# Lifelike cars: Inline vs. the can.



## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

I finally got a $100 grant from the city to buy some slot cars for the track I'm building, and taking in consideration the talent level of the kids involved decided to go with magnet cars. Scale Auto has a few of the Life Like cars pretty cheap, some for $10 even. With my $100 I can buy 8 cars. I have my own Dewalt Tools #17 already, so that'll make 9.

The cars will have both the original inline arm motors and can motors, and I was wondering if anyone had run one against the other. More than likely we will be running at reduced power (restrictor plate racing) to keep the cars on the track, but I would like the competetion to be as even as I can. If anyone has done a compo please let me know.

Instead of the Mini-Indy we're going to have the NASCAR equal to the World 600. Only it'll be a bit shorter, like maybe 60 laps, and everyone will be on total race time for their final standings. I'm hoping to have a dozen car ready by the end of May and the track should be done in about a month.


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## Pomfish (Oct 25, 2003)

The T Chassis is probably going to be more reliable for this use.
They like low power and are pretty sturdy.

Enjoy!
Thanks,
Keith


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## neorules (Oct 20, 2006)

I would definitely go with the t-chassis (can) car. We've raced both extensively. If you are racing on 12 volts the stock rear end will work-- much higher and you should probably go with lower slip-ons.


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## T-Jet Racer (Nov 16, 2006)

T chassis, fast reliable, and holds the track well.


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## videojimmy (Jan 12, 2006)

I agree... on a LifeLike track, a t-chassis runs fast and really sticks to the track. 

I bet you could run them at 14 volts, full bore, and have them stick to the track with no probelms. That may not hold true with Tomy or Tyco track... but those cars on a LifeLike track is a great combo for beginners


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

We'll be running 12V for the adults, maybe 9V for the kids. I did a list of the cars off of the Lucky Bob's site, most of his are $18 which means I could get 5 of the same cars. My Kenseth car is the O-Chassis so I'd have to get a can motor chassis for it to race. All the cars will race on hard tires, this is a mildly banked track and I don't think silicones are needed.

I like the Taurus, Monte Carlo, newer Grand Prix and Interpid cars, they look a bit like the ASA cars of the 1990's and that fits me just fine. The older Lumina and T-Birds, not so much. There are 14 different paint schemes in the T-Chassis (can motor) so maybe I'll spend a little more and get better cars.


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

WOOHOO! I just did sum figurin', between Scale Auto and Lucky Bob's I can get 10 cars for only $173.20!!!! Man what a field this will be!!!! All T-Chassis, the entry list will include NASCAR stars like Terry Labonte, Ward Burtan, Jimmy Johnson, Elliott Sadler, Dale Jarrett, Morgan Shepard, Matt Kenseth, Bobby Labonte, Kasey Kayne, and some other cars I have no idea who drove them in the late '90's-early 2000's. I'll be using the newer bodies like the Taurus, Monte Carlo, Grand Prix and Interpid. in an ASA styled field.

Once I get the initial field I can build cars using the "blanks" from Scale Auto for $15 each using Patto's decals. Gentleman, I think I have found my signature car for Sequoia Speedway!


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## roadrner (Jul 21, 1999)

Pete,
Just make sure you have your camera ready for all of your visual friends on the board. :thumbsup::thumbsup: Dave


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

Pete, did you look at Walthers online site? They routinely have sales with some recent cars (like the #48) at $13.98 and twin packs at $24.98. I love the NASCAR Dodge that LL sells, a bit heavy but a looker for sure.


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

I saw that, it's the newer style. the older style cars are a bit more "square", rather squat looking that takes some getting used to. My O-Chassis Kenseth car is one of those and they'll work just fine.


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

Tell Walthers what you're doing and odds are they'll send you a bunch of freebee's,then use the 100 bucks for another upgrade somewhere else.


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

Hornet said:


> Tell Walthers what you're doing and odds are they'll send you a bunch of freebee's,then use the 100 bucks for another upgrade somewhere else.


Did that, no response so far.

I did get two cars from a member who felt the need to donate them, plus I ordered 10 more today. I'll be pulling my #17 body off the O-Chassis car and putting it on the T-Chassis of one of the duplicate Dodges I have coming. And on that subject GOD are the Dodges ugly!!! I'm going to do the other duplicate (they were only $15 each) in a test car primer and use it as a mule and field filler. By this time next week I'll have a dozen runners and be ready for racing!!


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## tjettim (Nov 29, 2005)

You would be better off keeping each car in it's own lane,just
trading drivers across the lanes.The different bodies all handle
different and the older Monte Carlo will out handle the other
wide bodies.The old narrow Lumina will handle even better.
Put the heavier Dodges and Fords in the center lanes.


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## SuperFist (Aug 7, 2005)

On the LifeLike T chassis if you need to change the pinion gear,
you have to use the LifeLike 7 tooth pinion for the T chassis cars.

It's the only one that will fit.
Because the armature shaft is smaller than .059.


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

I think we're going to make the adults run the Dogs, er...Dodges.  Give the kids the better handling cars.


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## medic57 (Mar 3, 2008)

You need to contact Walthers directly, I did, told them I was starting a kids series and they sent me 20 new LifeLike T-Chassis for free. Great company to work with.


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

I sent them the e-mail from my city gov email, hopefully that will help. I mean, I will have a dozen cars and maybe a few more by race time, I can always rotate kids through the cars but I'm hoping to have 43 racers now between kids and rec leaders.


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## medic57 (Mar 3, 2008)

Contact Philip LaQuatra
103 South McDonald
McDonald, Pennsylvania 15057
[email protected]


He somtimes has great deals on LifeLike cars.


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

Will do! We have 5 weeks still, but that 5 weeks will fly by like it did last year.


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

Just in time for the weekend the 10 cars I ordered from Scale Auto arrived...










BOOGIDY, BOOGIDY, BOOGITY!!! LET'S GO RACING BOYS!!


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## Yoshi Nagura (Feb 9, 2008)

After the other night I have a better idea, and we'll see if the guys here can agree.

The Dodges do suck, nobody will want to run them with the other cars. After looking at the chassis I think if we let them run the O-Chassis it will be more equal, and here's why I think that....

Both cars share a common chassis layout, the O-Chassis has bigger motor magnets and a replaceable armature. The T-Chassis has those tiny slab motor magnets but two neo-dots in the back part of the chassis. On the magnet marshall the O-Chassis pulls 318 grams, the T-Chassis 366 grams. The advantage of the O-Chassis is much more low end torque, which should equal out the ground effects advantage of the T-Chassis. I'd be very interested in seeing a time compo between a Dodge on an O-Chassis and a Taurus on the T-Chassis. You can get out of the corners faster with the O, but hold a faster speed through them with the T. Run them both with hard tires and see. 

Also, in the other track photo, does the Lowe's car have a different version of the Monte Carlo body? Looks like the front end is different. I know the two Pontiac's (US ARMY and Valvoline) are different, so there again you have weight dynamics coming into play. Testing this weekend????


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## medic57 (Mar 3, 2008)

Set up correctly, the O-Chassis stands no chance against the T-Chassis.


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

Medic, that's pretty much what Yoshi's numbers tell me too. We may run them together this weekend just to see since my track is so small and we're essentially racing out of the box. If they can compete against each other at Sequoia it would greatly expand my planning for cars as I could buy either chassis and base my selection on body types only. We need to give the Dodges a bit of an advantage because of the higher CG but we'll test and see what happens.

And yeah Yosh, the newer M/C is a totally different body, the older one is lower and more squat, the new one sits higher. Same with the GP's. I'll do a photo compo shortly.


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## RiderZ (Feb 19, 2007)

*Lookin' Good!*

Thats a neat little oval you built Pete.Heres a pic of my LL Nascar racers all mounted on the "M" chassis.


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

Cool! Tonight we're havinga test and tune. Not much tuning will be done other than sanding the tires and racing since we're a stock class. The Dodges were running really great last night in the outer lanes and keeping up with the Chevy's at least. Fords are still dominating in all of the lanes. I ran maybe 1500 laps total last night and learned a few tricks.


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## Mike(^RacerX^) (Mar 15, 2003)

Pete,this is probably too late,but check out seller tubtrack on epay,aka SlotCar Central.

He has some sweet deals on LL stuff.

Matter of fact,I plan on getting a dozen or so myself as my in house "rental" cars so to speak,for when non slot head friends or family come over.

Mike


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## RiderZ (Feb 19, 2007)

*!!!*



Mike(^RacerX^) said:


> Pete,this is probably too late,but check out seller tubtrack on epay,aka SlotCar Central.
> 
> He has some sweet deals on LL stuff.
> 
> ...


Yes-this is who i bought all of my LL cars from.I just email him and request which body i want and to mount it on an "M" chassis.Four days later i have them.These are my 'loaner" cars too.:thumbsup:
You may have noticed the AJ's Gumdrops mounted on my cars in the previous pic.An "M" chassis with these slip-on's running on 12V is a riot!!!


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

Mike, Riderz, unfortunately I've spent all that I can on cars. I have a total of 15 on hand and Scale Auto has pledged a couple more. I'm going to buy another 4 or 5 next month right before the race but I'm going to fall short of my 33 car minimum I wanted going in. I may have 25, 4 of which I'm going to keep for myself as loaners. I spent the $100 the city gave me plus at least another $100, and I'm just too strapped to spend more of my own right now. I have just over 4 weeks and I'm hoping to hear from Walthers, if not we'll just do what we can with what we have. I still need to get the four Parma 60 ohm controllers, at $20 each as well. That will finish the track itself.

The good thing about this (if you can call this a good thing) is we may only have 20-25 kids involved. Fresno PD recently did a gang sweep and many of the kids we thought were good were not. One of the kids helping me put this together turned out to be a serial bicycle theif and is now locked up. A lot of the ones that were not arrested outright have disappeared, leaving mostly the younger group, from 9 to 14 years old. Of the those in the second age bracket (15-18) only 3 remain out of nearly 20 that had originally expressed an interest. I'm spending this evening going over our files with a PD CSO, finding home addresses for others they want to talk to. On a side note, our graffitti incidents have also dropped way off....sometimes it's tough working with kids.


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## Mike(^RacerX^) (Mar 15, 2003)

RiderZ said:


> Yes-this is who i bought all of my LL cars from.I just email him and request which body i want and to mount it on an "M" chassis.Four days later i have them.These are my 'loaner" cars too.:thumbsup:
> You may have noticed the AJ's Gumdrops mounted on my cars in the previous pic.An "M" chassis with these slip-on's running on 12V is a riot!!!


The thing I like about them is straight out of the pair,a pair of Super Tires,and your racing.
And for the price they make great loaners.Ive found that these were the best cars to give to newbies.A lot of speed,which seems to impress them,and relatively easy to figure out how to drive after a few laps.

Mike


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## Wildstar (Jan 8, 2008)

Yoshi Nagura said:


> On the magnet marshall the O-Chassis pulls 318 grams, the T-Chassis 366 grams.


Yoshi, can you publish some more magnet marshall numbers for common HO cars? Knowing how various cars actually perform on the track, I'd be curious to see how their magnet numbers compare.


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

Wildstar I think we found a stock JLTO pulled 266 grams and a Tomy Turbo pulled 280 grams, but it's where the magnets are located over the rails that made the difference. If you were to race the two on a non-magnetic railed track they would be pretty equal. Let us know what cars you want and if we have those cars we'll weight them for you.


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## mking (Apr 25, 2000)

*"O-Chassis"?*

Are the O-chassis and the M-chassis the same?


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## Wildstar (Jan 8, 2008)

Pete McKay said:


> Wildstar I think we found a stock JLTO pulled 266 grams and a Tomy Turbo pulled 280 grams, but it's where the magnets are located over the rails that made the difference.QUOTE]
> 
> Hmmm...this is interesting. I was hoping that the magnet marshal would be a little better indicator of a car's performance. I can see your point now about JLTO's -- they have large magnets, but relatively little force per area.
> 
> I'm not real familiar with the magnet marshal design -- is it just a steel plate that attracts the magnets? If so, I'm wondering if it could be retrofitted with two thin rails or maybe even a piece of track to yield more meaningful results...


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## medic57 (Mar 3, 2008)

I think a lot of people refer to the M-Chassis as th O-Chassis, as in *Original*.


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

Wildstar said:


> I'm not real familiar with the magnet marshal design -- is it just a steel plate that attracts the magnets? If so, I'm wondering if it could be retrofitted with two thin rails or maybe even a piece of track to yield more meaningful results...


The MM has a narrow plate that measures the draw a cars magnets pull up on it. An HO car is just wide enough to pull the plate up and have it's tires on the base. You do have to remove the guide pin because the MM is designed for a larger scale, but other than that no modifications to the MM is required. I measured a T-Jet and a XT with stock magnets and there was only about 10 grams between them. That has to do with the size of the magnets more than anything because XT's are slightly bigger. 

Another thing was tires, especially on T-Jets. My T-jet pulled 188 grams with stock tires, when I switched to RRR wheels and tires it went up to 200 grams. All that meant was I got the car closer to the track, but as we know it didn't really help the magentic ground effects that much. I have a polymer XT that pulls 400 grams, you almost have to pry it off the MM but on the track it comes off pretty easy. Magnet placement is the key.


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

If you really like the T-chassis and need some spare NASCAR Dodge Charger bodies to customize, Walthers is currently selling the red Charger for $10.98.


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## Wildstar (Jan 8, 2008)

Pete McKay said:


> The MM has a narrow plate that measures the draw a cars magnets pull up on it. An HO car is just wide enough to pull the plate up and have it's tires on the base. You do have to remove the guide pin because the MM is designed for a larger scale, but other than that no modifications to the MM is required. I measured a T-Jet and a XT with stock magnets and there was only about 10 grams between them. That has to do with the size of the magnets more than anything because XT's are slightly bigger.
> 
> Another thing was tires, especially on T-Jets. My T-jet pulled 188 grams with stock tires, when I switched to RRR wheels and tires it went up to 200 grams. All that meant was I got the car closer to the track, but as we know it didn't really help the magentic ground effects that much. I have a polymer XT that pulls 400 grams, you almost have to pry it off the MM but on the track it comes off pretty easy. Magnet placement is the key.


OK, how about a comparison of Tyco X-2, Tomy SG+ and Tomy Turbo, each with and without traction mags? Your choice of stock tires vs. racing tires.


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## Yoshi Nagura (Feb 9, 2008)

Tyco 440X2 was 410 grams, I only had one so I couldn't do an average and this was just one, very tired car. Without the magnets it pulled 310 grams. Stock hard rubber rear tires rotting off the wheels.

Super G-Plus was 452 grams with .440 wheels and silicones. I don't have a stock rear end so I couldn't tell you how they come from the box, but I'd say it would be closer to 375 grams. The traction magnets were glued in so I couldn't get a reading without them.

Tomy Turbo's were 348 grams, 357 grams and 361 grams between my stockers. I could only get the magnets out of the 357 gram car and it pulled 210 grams. The bar magnet of the Turbo is bigger in mass than the two in the X2, so it dropped more when it was removed. 

I have a 1986 era (I was 5 years old then) Gary Beedle built neo car that I got from Pete that has 6 neo magnets, two under the front axle, the motor magnets and then two large square traction magnets that nearly touch the rails, that car draws a whopping 889 grams, I have to slide it sideways until it's off the draw bar on the MM. That car is staggering to drive, it has one of the oldest low power balanced BSRT armatures I've ever seen, threaded brush barrels, class 7 ball bearings in the armature and rear axle, an independant front end and some hybred type rear tires that are part silicone and part foam. It was originally a 440X2 I think but some parts are even carbon fiber. I drove it on a 61.4' track and was lapping under 4 seconds. You couldn't track it with your eyes, only by sound, and it roared. With the exception of a tight 6" hairpin I was pretty much wide open. Pete originally had 4 of these cars when we met, I think he gave one to one of the Seattle gang, I have one, Martin has one and Pete has the last one. All of them had MADD Ford Probe GTP bodies, mine was the only day-glo orange one, and they had a scratch built mount that used the stock chassis body mounts. They just don't build them like this anymore. 

I have G-Jets coming, when they get here I'll weigh them and let everyone know.


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## medic57 (Mar 3, 2008)

> I drove it on a 61.4' track and was lapping under 4 seconds.





> They just don't build them like this anymore.


Thankfully no, a decent SuperStock would turn about 2.8 seconds on that track now.


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

Back in the day, eh? The track Yosh was running was built in 1983 from old tab and box AFX track. It's darn near cobblestone now. When those cars were new they would run in the mid 3's, absolutely scalding back then. I haven't even looked at mine in months, not even sure what box it's in. But you're right about SS cars being so much faster, shoot, even some of the out of the box stockers are faster than my old Stront magnet cars. I haven't built such a car in more than 15 years, don't see a need to really. Like most here I find it more fun to drift through corners at a speed that is optically pleasing.


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## tjettim (Nov 29, 2005)

Maybe Tyco X2s will come back some day like Tjets did,
ah,those were the days.


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## Mike(^RacerX^) (Mar 15, 2003)

Yoshi Nagura said:


> I have a 1986 era (I was 5 years old then) Gary Beedle built neo car that I got from Pete that has 6 neo magnets, two under the front axle, the motor magnets and then two large square traction magnets that nearly touch the rails, that car draws a whopping 889 grams, I have to slide it sideways until it's off the draw bar on the MM. That car is staggering to drive, it has one of the oldest low power balanced BSRT armatures I've ever seen, threaded brush barrels, class 7 ball bearings in the armature and rear axle, an independant front end and some hybred type rear tires that are part silicone and part foam. It was originally a 440X2 I think but some parts are even carbon fiber. I drove it on a 61.4' track and was lapping under 4 seconds. You couldn't track it with your eyes, only by sound, and it roared. With the exception of a tight 6" hairpin I was pretty much wide open. Pete originally had 4 of these cars when we met, I think he gave one to one of the Seattle gang, I have one, Martin has one and Pete has the last one. All of them had MADD Ford Probe GTP bodies, mine was the only day-glo orange one, and they had a scratch built mount that used the stock chassis body mounts. They just don't build them like this anymore.


Hey man if it isnt too much trouble,how about some pics of that beast.That kind of stuff is right up my alley,Id love to see it in detail,as Im sure some others would here as well.

Mike(aka Ice9)


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## tjettim (Nov 29, 2005)

The carbon fibered back halved Tycos were the forerunners
of the unlimited rail cars.Scratch built unlimiteds now are
one piece,machined out of a solid chunk of plastic.


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## Yoshi Nagura (Feb 9, 2008)

I can't seem to find mine, I did just move so I am looking.

On a quick note we had some testing tonight and an O-Chassis car actually set fast time at 1.06 seconds with a Taurus body. The track was somewhat dusty from non-use over the last week, even wiping it down didn't seem to help and tire taping was frequent. Pete has 28 cars, a few of the recent arrivals haven't been repainted yet so some of the posted times are for "T" cars. A lot of the T-Chassis cars were running under 1.15, even the O-Chassis "Turtle Body" Dodges were in the 1.20's. In a week or so we'll have the 33 car minimum to run the MCC event on the 23rd.


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## brownie374 (Nov 21, 2007)

I use a swifter duster before I run on my track.


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

Sequoia was painted a flat light gray then sanded lightly to cut the rails through the paint. If you've ever been on a concrete freeway where the grooves are cut in the direction of the traffic, that's how the track surface is now almost all the way around. I left it uncovered for 10 days and didn't do any racing while repairing cat damage and doing some other cosmetic things. So when we did go racing those grooves had filled with dust. After vacuuming I wipe the track down with alcohol before racing, but in this cars that just made for wet dust in these tiny grooves that, as the alcohol evaporated, became dry dust again. 

I now use a scotch brite pad to dry wipe the track, a quick vacuuming followed by a dry cloth with endust, then a slightly damp with alcohol cloth to remove what is left. As time goes by and those grooves wear smooth the track gets slippery, especially in the corners. Since we run hard rubber tires you can actually see the entry into one and three become darker in the inner lanes from the gray paint wearing down to the black track under it. I have no plans to repaint it, and the natural pattern will represent rubber build up on a real world track.

Back in the day I treated my hard tires with alcohol to soften them up. Soaking for a few hours was enough to remove some of the natural oils which also made them somewhat sticky. I've done the same in this class although as with the Magna-Traction cars it makes the tires wear a lot faster. But that is the reason the track record is standing right at a second per lap for these cars. Eventually someone may go under a second per lap, but the current record of 1.01 was an absolute screaming, wide open lap with a Taurus bodied T-Chassis. When you think of five one-hundredths of a second between what we were running a few days ago and when we ran the impromptu event it shows the track slowing a little from natural wear.


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