# XRAY M18 Performance



## Guest (Mar 8, 2004)

Does anybody here own one of these cars? Has anybody driven one?

I just drove one of these cars last week at a race here and the car was very planted. The track was a fairly rough outdoor asphalt surface. My BRP did not work no matter what I did but the M18 tracked straight, did not hop and had great corner speed.

Anybody else have any thoughts on the M18?


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## BudBartos (Jan 1, 1970)

Have not seen one run here several guys have them but never finished setting them up.


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## patcollins (Sep 29, 2001)

Good car, especially if the surface isnt smooth. 

I still think on carpet my Penguin Equiped Micro RS4 is faster than my M18. The M18 has a few issues that will eventually get resolved.


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## Guest (Mar 9, 2004)

Yeah, I just built my M18 last night. 

I have seen the M18's run on carpet and I have never seen a micro that could keep up.

The M18's on five cells with stock motor were faster than the HPI cars on 6 cells around the track.

The BRP on carpet can definitely compete with the XRAY.

WHat issues with the XRAY are you referring to pat?


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## Racinrc14 (May 21, 2003)

Hey guys,

We run the Xray micros at our track every Wednesday and on Sundays. Our track is ozite carpet, and we run them with the TRC micro foams. I myself am running purple fronts and pink rears. In general, the M18's at our track with the foam tires suffer from too much bite (imagine that). So, what most of us are doing is gluing the outside edge of the tires and a very small band along the outer tread. After that, they are pretty well hooked up. We tried to run the cars with the kit tires, but there was too little grip and the cars were rallying around the corners (fun, but not fast). The HPI cars aren't even close, by the way. One guy is fast with his HPI, but it has the Ratzas chassis and 6-cells compared to our box stock chassis and 5-cells, and he is at least a lap off the pace. We do have a couple of guys with BRP cars, but they don't run them. I believe they would be close, because they seem to be pretty quick when they are playing around.

Tommy


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## patcollins (Sep 29, 2001)

The XRay tends to wander on long straights, it seems to be because of the excessive rear toe-in but a fix is on the way with the new 2.5 degree toe links. Quite a few people are having problems with the tranny using foam tires on carpet and big block motors. The gear diff causes the car to do a rapid turn around if all the weight is transfered to the outside tire in a high speed tight turn. They need some stiffer springs for those of us who race on a smooth ozite track. 

If a M18 on 5 cells is faster than an HPI based car on 6 cells the person runing the HPI doesnt know what they are doing. 

I run my M18 in mod and my HPI/Penguin P3500LM in stock and consistantly get the fastest laptimes in the stock class. 

On asphalt I would wager the M18 would definately be the better car but on a smooth carpet track they are quite comparable.


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## Guest (Mar 9, 2004)

I don't know where you race but I have results which show the differences in lap times between the XRAY and the HPI cars. 

Simply put, the HPI is an inferior car. These XRAY cars are being run stock with five cells versus modified HPI's and take a look at the outcomes.

Check out this thread http://yourmicro.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=10004&goto=newpost


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## Guest (Mar 9, 2004)

Also,

I have a solution to the wandering. 

Your wandering may be due to your servo, servo horn or the increased toe in the rear. 

I think that it is an issue with both the toe in the rear and the bumpsteer links. Try removing the links from underneath the wheel hub and diff case and place it on the upperside of the wheel hub and on the top of the rear diff case.

This will help alleviate that wandering issue and appears to decrease a bit of that toe.


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## patcollins (Sep 29, 2001)

Interesting, by keeping up do you mean to have the same straight line speed the micro needs an extra cell to have the same straight line speed as the M18?

In the stock class I have been runing my Penguin with 6 cells against M18s with 6 cells and I am ever so slightly faster than them in terms of straight line speed and the car handles like a dream going exactly where I want it. 

In mod I run the M18 with 5 cells and a speed 300 and only see the wandering when the track has a long straight. Im going to stick my Elite Mod in and see if I can equal the M18 lap times. 

I was doing 8.3 second laps in mod and 8.7 second laps in stock FYI. I had the fastest laptimes in stock but not mod, the fastest guy in mod was doing just under 8's.

I think most of the difference lies in the fast that most serious racers view the M18 as more of a race vehicle and therefore better drivers are runing the M18 than the micro.


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## Guest (Mar 10, 2004)

I am not referring to straight line speed at all. five cell M18 is definitely slower in a straight line than a six cell micro as it should be.

Many of the drivers racing the M18's at the Rialto track were previously running HPI micros. 

The M18's set a track record within one month of their release at that track. 

The track surface there is Ozite.

You should seriously try that mod I mentioned. It will only take five minutes to do it and if you don't like it, you can always go back.


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## patcollins (Sep 29, 2001)

I have been planing on trying it this week. Where is Rilato? Do you all run micros throughout the year? I am going to be in Ocenside sometime this summer and might bring one of my micros to race. We only run them in the winter here.


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## Guest (Mar 10, 2004)

Rialto is in Rialto. It is fairly close to San Bernardino. This is a micro only track and it is carpet.

From Oceanside you can probably get there in an hour.

We also race at SoCal raceway which is less than an hour drive from Oceanside.


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## Cain (Feb 28, 2002)

So how does the M18 stack up against the BRP with the ball diff? I used to run 1/18 scale but no one around here runs them. The BRP blew away the HPI micros since I could actually turn without flipping and they couldn't. Seems the rear of the HPI micro is way too stiff.


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## Guest (Mar 10, 2004)

I will need to run each of them on carpet to find out.

I can tell you that the M18 is definitely the more versatile of the two cars.


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## patcollins (Sep 29, 2001)

I think i found some of my wandering problem, had a bad bearing already.


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## BudBartos (Jan 1, 1970)

Cain >> the ball diff in the BRP SC18 makes a hugh difference.


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## Cain (Feb 28, 2002)

Yeah, I bought the ball diff for mine right away and it was a blast. Really only issue I had with your vehicle Bud was that the screws stripped too easily and the motors were very finicky. I got a tuned version from you that blew up on its first run, but since you are a standup guy you replaced it right away.


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## BudBartos (Jan 1, 1970)

Don't understand the screw trouble, you have to have the right size bit. Motors are Fine if you follow the instructions on making sure they are not bound up. I tell and show racers this all the time. trouble is they feal fine thru the gears but may still be bound and it does not take much to mess them up.


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## Guest (Mar 12, 2004)

Have any of you guys raced against the M18's yet?

I just drove mine last night and one thing that I notice about the M18 is that the springs are too soft. 

Just one con I have noticed about the car.


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## MDB (Nov 8, 2002)

Intelligenasia--- I have raced my M18 once and it seemed pretty good out of the box. Stock tires,stock motor 4 or 5 cell was good.I haven't ran a 45 turn or big block yet but tuning parts are becoming available.If you have oval racing in your area look at pan car front springs,I bought a bag of Wolfe Motorsports springs $11.00 for 7 pairs from 4 to 16 lbs in 2 lb incriments.They appear to be the right diameter maybe a little short though(1/16 of an inch or so).hope this helped.

Later,

Mark


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## Guest (Mar 15, 2004)

Hey,

Thanks for the info.

We don't run oval here unfortunately.


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## collins77 (Jan 27, 2003)

Once you get past the stripped gear diffs, the stripped spurs, the ultra-flex chassis and the overly flexible arms, the M18 is a decent car. I agree 100% with pat that a well-equipped Micro RS4 is comparable to a well-equipped M18. I run both...fully tricked out...and the P3500LM Micro RS4 is just a smidge faster on a smooth Ozite track. It may be a different story when we move outdoors on pavement.

Whoever says the Micro can't keep up has never seen a well put-together, and well-driven Micro...and vise-versa. 

The BRP cars are also very fast...and they should be as they're like little 1/18 scale pan-cars.

-Mike


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## Guest (Mar 16, 2004)

What do you mean well equipped M18? By well equipped do you mean stock? Or a $30 lower chassis? I know that XRAY's hopups for the car aren't in stores yet so how "well equipped" can a M18 currently be?

You compare both cars stock to stock and the micro doesn't stand a chance. You compare a stock M18 to a modified micro on carpet and the M18 is still right there even with the flexy stock chassis. 

I have already posted results from our Ozite track. You can view the results for yourselves.

I am not saying that hopped up the micro is an inferior car but stock it most definitely is.


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## collins77 (Jan 27, 2003)

Intelligentsia said:


> I know that XRAY's hopups for the car aren't in stores yet so how "well equipped" can a M18 currently be?


Wink...Wink...

Penguin R/C P7500 hop-up kit (not just a chassis, either...)

Mike Collins
Team Penguin R/C


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## Guest (Mar 16, 2004)

That chassis is not yet available to the general public.

Looks rather promising I must admit.


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## collins77 (Jan 27, 2003)

Intelligentsia said:


> That chassis is not yet available to the general public.
> 
> Looks rather promising I must admit.


You're right, but it will be soon...and "revolutionary" is not too strong a term!

There have been many changes and additions to the one you have probably seen...all for the better. It will be like the P3500LM...well worth waiting for.

-Mike


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## Guest (Mar 17, 2004)

When do you feel it is better to run a stiffer chassis such as this new Penguin?


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## BudBartos (Jan 1, 1970)

Stiffer on high bite, flexi on low bite! I ordered a M18 today with spare diff gears


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## Guest (Mar 17, 2004)

You ordered a M18? Wow... Let us know what you think of it.


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## patcollins (Sep 29, 2001)

Hmmm Im guessing chassis, drive shaft, stiffer springs, and a better steering system.


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## Micro_Racer (Mar 27, 2002)

The stock BRP's finally ran up against a Mod X-Ray M-18.....lets just say the X-Ray was no were in the top 5.....even with the baja motor.


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## Guest (Mar 22, 2004)

On what surface were you running? We just ran here today on outdoor asphalt and the BRP's don't stand a chance.


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## Micro_Racer (Mar 27, 2002)

Indoor carpet...still snowing up in Cleveland!


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## Guest (Mar 22, 2004)

Oh yeah, 

I'd definitely take a BRP on some nice carpet...Even smooth high bite asphalt. 

Unfortunately the track that we raced on yesterday proved a bit too bumpy for the BRP's.


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## karlo511 (Dec 11, 2003)

my brp couldn't handle the bumps. placed 5th in the first qualifying heat. switched to the xray, picked up two extra laps and place 2nd in the main. this was the first time i actually _drove_ the xray too.


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## Guest (Mar 22, 2004)

Lol,

Man you change your avatars like every day


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## Cain (Feb 28, 2002)

Bud,

The main issue with the motor I had that blew up was the comm just came apart. The motor wasn't as fast as my old one, and next thing I know I see metal on the ground. 

As for the screws, I had the correct bit, but they still stripped. Do you have any plans to offer an allen screwhead conversion or can provide a list of the sizes needed? If I do micro again, I probably will change to that instead.

Overall though your vehicle was a blast. Only issue I see some places having is that its not a true touring car and they will use that to keep us from running with them.

On the asphalt, anyone running the HPI wheel conversion from BRP so they can use rubber tires? maybe that will hook up better?


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## Guest (Mar 24, 2004)

Hey,

I have run the HPI wheels but they didn't help me too much on the track that I was running at.

In my street however they were a much better alternative to the foams.


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## JB_The_Evader (Mar 31, 2002)

Hey intel, long time no see. I've been meaning to get into the 1/18 scale racing, but I've had other things that had to be taken care of. Would that krystal3 motor work in the m18, or does it only take the smaller motors (which is my guess)? I take it you haven't had a chance to run it at socal yet. After you do, do you think you could give me your recommendation? I'm leaning torward the brp, but the m18 seems more planted and easier to drive.


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## Guest (Mar 24, 2004)

Hey,
Nice to see you again after a few months!

Yeah, I have a Krystal 3 in my M18. You just need a motor mount to fit the motor.

I won my race on Sunday with my M18 by two laps. 

The M18 is definitely easier to drive especially with that ever so forgiving stock chassis.

What did you want to know about the M18?


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## JB_The_Evader (Mar 31, 2002)

Just whether or not you liked it compared to the brp. How much did they other motor mount cost? I've seen some m18's for $80 NIB. Might go for it.


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## Guest (Mar 24, 2004)

Hey,

I got my M18 for $75 brand new with some race bucks that I had from SoCal. 

So far I really like the car. It is pretty tunable like a 1/10 touring car. The suspension works rather well even with those friction shocks. The car has plenty of steering and some hopups on the way. 

The motor mount you can find at www.unitedrc.com as well as cells for the car. 

You will really like this car. The corner speed is excellent. and it feels rock solid on the track.


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## JB_The_Evader (Mar 31, 2002)

Thanks. When will you be at socal next?


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## Guest (Mar 24, 2004)

Hmmm,

haven't been at SoCal lately. Been hitting up some of the local parking lot tracks around the SoCal area. I may be up at SoCal on April 10, I will be in Norco this Sunday hopefully at RC Heat. Visit http://www.rcheat.com for more info.

Maybe you can bring your 1/10?


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## JB_The_Evader (Mar 31, 2002)

I just checked out that site. Typed the address in on mapquest and its only a 20 minute drive from my house. I'll have to look into that.


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## Guest (Mar 24, 2004)

Sweet! It is an hour and twenty minute drive from me. That is cool that it is much closer to you.


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## JB_The_Evader (Mar 31, 2002)

I just bought an M18 sunday and got it put together (minus the electronics). I already of the krystal3 motor, I'm gonna pick up a hitec receiver and microservo, and i'm thinking about an LRP Quantum Micro. What do you guys use for batteries? I'm probably gonna order some of the URC cells, but what do you guys use for battery bars? thanks.


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## patcollins (Sep 29, 2001)

JB do yourself a favor and get a regular Quantum Reverse that way you can use it in a 1/10th scale car. Not much more money, practically same size, and a whole lot better.


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## collins77 (Jan 27, 2003)

Make sure you get a metal-gear servo, like the HS-81MG.

For battery bars, I use shunts from worn out brushes.


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## Guest (Mar 31, 2004)

Congratulations on the purchase!

JB, I would highly recommend that you do not purchase a 81MG servo. Since the motor has been sitting for so long, be sure that you lube the bushings with some bushing/bearing lube. 

United RC has the cheapest KAN cells that you can buy right now at $1.20 each. They are blue shrinkwrapped to match the XRAY hopups scheme. 

As far as battery bars, it will kind of depend on how you will solder your cells. For a stick pack configuration I use a different type than I use for side by side.


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## patcollins (Sep 29, 2001)

I prefer the HS85MG, it seems to center a little better than the 81.


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## Guest (Mar 31, 2004)

Yeah, they are a little slower but a lot better than the 81.

I personally use a mini digital servo in my car.


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## JB_The_Evader (Mar 31, 2002)

I haven't checked out what servo I'm gonna get yet, and I'll probably go with the full size quantum as suggested. As for the batteries, I was looking at the URC KAN cells for $1.20. Probably gonna get a few packs. I'm planning on running the packs side by side. I just don't know what to use to join the cells. Intel, what do you use for a battery bar? I've got the wires and I'll have to pick up some more deans plugs.


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## Guest (Apr 1, 2004)

Oh JB, I have a brand new Hitec HS-85MG servo that will mount into your XRAY perfectly. 

As far as battery bars I use copper braided wire. United RC has do it yourself packs with all of the necessary goods. Or you can have them build the packs for you. The quality is superb.


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## JB_The_Evader (Mar 31, 2002)

OK. How much do you want for the servo? And where on the urc site are the do it yourself packs? I've seen them before but i couldn't find them the last time I looked.


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## Guest (Apr 2, 2004)

Servo $25?

The DIY packs you can find Here


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## JB_The_Evader (Mar 31, 2002)

Thanks for the info. I'm interested in the servo.


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## Guest (Apr 2, 2004)

Alright,

Send the paypal to [email protected]

If you need any setup tips for particular tracke let me know.

Thanks


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## JB_The_Evader (Mar 31, 2002)

Could I just pay you for it next time I see you at a track? I would think that would be easier. I might try to make it out to RC heat this weekend to check it out and race 1/10.


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## Guest (Apr 2, 2004)

I can't hold onto it that long. I don't even know when the next time will be that I see you.

Sorry.


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## JB_The_Evader (Mar 31, 2002)

no problem. Thanks anyways.


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## GiantScale (Sep 12, 2002)

BRP racing is starting back up here in Iowa City. Id like to know how a mod M18 will do against a mod BRP on a oval carpet track?

I have a mod BRP which I hand made with T bar ,bearings etc etc. Mod slot car motor & wide rear tires to handle the power, but it never likes to run straight when I peg the throttle. Burnt 3 motors so far as well. But I usually win the class.

The rules state only that the car is " 1/18 "... So which one should I run??

Im tempted to get the M18 with a mamba or speed 300 & see. Kind of a expensive experiment though.

What do you think?


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## Micro_Racer (Mar 27, 2002)

GiantScale said:


> BRP racing is starting back up here in Iowa City. Id like to know how a mod M18 will do against a mod BRP on a oval carpet track?
> 
> I have a mod BRP which I hand made with T bar ,bearings etc etc. Mod slot car motor & wide rear tires to handle the power, but it never likes to run straight when I peg the throttle. Burnt 3 motors so far as well. But I usually win the class.
> 
> ...


I would try the new V2 conversion for your BRP. The conversion has a new T-Plate that can handel the power. I would also pick up the speed 300 rear pod plate for the BRP.....


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## RAFster (May 29, 2002)

The higher output motors can cause the diff to slip and provide more power to one wheel can account for the difference in full power on throttle tracking. 

Check that your rear pod is square to the front tires. Pull the wheels and measure from the centerline on the front axles straight from front to rear on both sides, and in a X pattern. The rear axle measurement point will have to be a prescribed measurement on the axle from the car's center as far out as you can go. 

The Speed 300 6v or Great Planes 370 7.2V both require tighter diff settings than the stock motor and the greater power application can cause it to not go in a straight line when you peg it because of diff action. Too much power through the diff can generate excessive heat and cause wear so, controlling the throttle finger to not abuse the diff is better. Depends on how deep your pockets are...


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## patcollins (Sep 29, 2001)

Had my diff do the ticking for the first time last week, with a stock motor no less. Las year I ran a 300 with no probs. 

Going to put a ball diff in the rear.


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## patcollins (Sep 29, 2001)

Lets get this discussion going some more. I race my M18 at Trifecta Hobbies in Prince Frederick MD and Dougs Hobbies in Hollywood MD. I have the Penguin P7500 chassis with the motor mounted centerline above the drive shaft with a 3 x 3 saddle pack for even weight distribution. I am using a Futaba 9102 servo, LRP Quantum ESC and a Novak XXL FM receiver. At the moment I am running both diffs with the screws in them. The car is a dream to drive and very fast.


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## DynoMoHum (Sep 25, 2001)

So, has anyone put a Mamba-25 with like a CM2054 motor in with it?

I'm thinking of buying a M18 and a Mamba-25, etc... just for fun... It sound like maybe I'd have to upgrade my diffs if I do buy this?

I'm all new to the 18th stuff, and really wanting to try brushless... the M18 and a Mamba combo seemed like a pretty cheap way to get started... assuming I didn't have to buy a bunch of ohter hop ups to handle all the power...

Can you guys give me some advice? Would there be any real point to puting anything faster then the 5400Kv motor in there? They sell 6300Kv and 8000kv motors as well...


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## patcollins (Sep 29, 2001)

Depends on how much room you have. I seen one with the 6300 run and it was insane on our track. 

The diffs are fine if you buy an extra front diff (the one with the screw) and use it instead of the pin rear diff. 

Really a M18 on 6 cells and a speed 300 is very fast. The brushless makes is ballistic.


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## DynoMoHum (Sep 25, 2001)

I wound up buying the 5400Kv Mamba combo, primarly because it was the only one they had at the store where I purhcased it at. After reading more about it, I think it was a good choice anyway. My understanding is that the 5400kv is about as good as any of the brush motors, but probably not too much faster.

I can set up a road course in my basment with probably a maximum of 30 foot straights, so I'm sure I don't need any more speed then the 5400kv is going to give...

As far as the screw diff... Can you modify the rear diff to take the spring and screw? or do you have to buy a whole new diff? I'm a little confused as to just how many of the parts are the same for the front and rear drive train...


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## patcollins (Sep 29, 2001)

The screw spring and nut are all that is different to my knowledge, however I dont think they are sold seperately. I didnt feel like putting too much effort into it and just got the whole front diff.


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## Gimpy00Wang (Jan 30, 2005)

*My M18!*

Howdy ho! Anyone in the eastern PA area looking for a place to race? We currently have an moderate following, but we're always looking for more...

http://www.grello.org/gallery/M18

- Chris


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## gordonmoney (Jan 15, 2002)

Dynamohum-The 5400 is an excellent choice-real fast and LOTS of torque. My friend has a 6800 and it's just too much(I think) on our 24'x15' track. Both of us are running the stock diffs front and rear on carpet. He's got rubber all around and I have foam in the rear. Outdrives, axels, everything is stock and so far, holding up. I just run a 5 cell pack with 16/42 gears and it's fast, drivable, handles well, and runs forever. This is my 3rd brushless setup(2 in 1/10 scale) and they're all great! My next one will probably be going into my BRP sc(or maybe a V2 conversion thats calling my name!)


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## DynoMoHum (Sep 25, 2001)

Well I finnaly got my Mamba-25 with 5400Kv motor installed in my XRay M18... Wow... This thing is fast. I'm pretty much glad I didn't get any faster motor, as this thing is
basicly impossible to use all the power that it has with the 5400. I've got the smallest pinion that came with the kit in this thing. Timing is still set at it's default setting which is described as 'normal', 'good ballance of speed and runtime'... there is a lower
setting, and also 'race' and 'extreme' that I have not yet tried.

I haven't yet gotten to drive it on Ozite with foams and paragon, but I have had a chance to drive it on some office style carpet in a room that is about 150 feet long and 80 feet wide. Not the ideal surface, but not the worst either. At half throttle this thing will easily spin out even in a corner with about 30' radius. At full throttle the car is still accelerating when I have to let off to slow down enough to avoid hitting the wall at the other end of the room. At the speed I achived so far, the car will spin out if/when you turn the steering even a little bit. I'd estimate the speed I've achived so far at about 25MPH, perhaps a little faster... however as I've said, I don't think I've actually hit top speed yet, just don't have enough room.

I should get a chance to run this on a nice 10th scale oval track this weekend. However I suspect that there is no way I'll ever be able to use full throttle even on a nice sized ozite oval track. I don't have any foams... but even if I get some, I doubt you'd be able to drive this more then 3/4 throttle down a 60' straight and no more then half throttle through the corners...

Fun, yes for an experianced driver... Practical for anything but full out racing and/or controled fun by an experianced driver... NO... This is too fast for your average kid that is for sure, they'd have it broke into about 100 peices on the first battery charge.

I can just imagine what a BRP V2 would do with this motor/controler in it... and almost can't imagine why anyone would want or need anything any faster then the 5400Kv motor in any 18th scale car... I'm running five 1100mAh 2/3 A cells, and can
see no reason for anything more then that.


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## patcollins (Sep 29, 2001)

Dyno, how is the throttle response? Is it as smooth as the Novak SuperSport?

I was looking at the mamba 4300 for 18th truck.


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## DynoMoHum (Sep 25, 2001)

Yes, the throttle response is very smooth, as smooth as any brushed motor I've ever had, and every bit as smooth as a Novak SS which is very smooth as well.


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## patcollins (Sep 29, 2001)

Interesting, I really didn't think a smooth throttle response could be achieved with a nonsensored motor.


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## DynoMoHum (Sep 25, 2001)

The only thing that acted the least bit strange is when initaly attempting to move at very low throttle... I mean like 2% or less. Sometimes it would seem to hesitate just a tiny bit and/or wouldn't move at all after moving just a tiny bit. However this is so small it's not really even worth mentioning. If you pull the trigger 5% and get the thing moving, then it seems you can go down to 1 or 2% and stay rolling...

(I'm just guessing at the percentage of throttle, I do know that when the above issue was observed it was at extremely low throttle, deffintely less then 10%)

I have not experianced anything else even close to a problem with it's smoothness. It's so smooth I can easily get my M18 to drift sideways through a curve on low grip surfaces, and easily control the slide with throttle and steering control. I'm very impressed.


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