# Polar Lights PTB, LISTEN TO US!



## Babaganoosh (Dec 16, 2004)

We are the real backbone of your business! This is the sounding board you've provided to us, the loyal buyers/builders/collectors of your products!

I have to insist that Polar Lights do a survey of those on this board who appreciate Star Trek modeling of which Star Trek model they'd like to see and in what scale instead of making the decision yourselves behind closed doors perhaps with hired consultants who think they know what's good for you and therefore, US - the people who actually BUY the kits.

10 to 1 odds says Polar Lights hasn't seen a kit do as poorly as the Scorpion since the Titan AE "Drej" kit.

Like I say, THIS buletin board is the official sounding board that Polar Lights has provided to us modelers to communicate with each other and hopefully, the powers-that-be at PL. 

In my opinion, Polar Lights should survey the modelers here who are into Star Trek to find out what ships they would like to see produced. Then, compile a list of the most popular answers and then do a poll asking what scale those ships should be mastered in.


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## Matthew Green (Nov 12, 2000)

Geez....you Star Trek guys have had it good for so long now...How about doing a survey about us figure modelers?


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## Scott Hasty (Jul 10, 2003)

First, as has been stated numerous times, PL is gone; it is simply a brand name owned by RC.

Second, though you and others may want specific subjects, it isn't in their best interest to produce these subjects. You think they create a master, mold, shoot it, box it and sit back and collect their money? No. The creation of a single kit is a laborous and expensive task. Looking at our small niche, they probably wouldn't make their money back.

What really gets me are the people that want a ship that was shown for a few seconds on screen and never featured again...jeez, gimme a break.

I think everyone carrying the torches and pitchforks need to chill and realize that this isn't personal, it's business. They produce what the vast majority of the public will purchase, period.

And Matthew is correct. Trek had a HUGE run in kits over the past 30 years. Most of the kits are widely available through various auction houses and many for a reasonable price. And don't start with how inaccurate they are. Most of you will find "innaccuracy" in any kit. Hell, I've seen guys argue over the accuracy of filming miniatures; William Shatner anyone....

Scottie


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Scott Hasty said:


> What really gets me are the people that want a ship that was shown for a few seconds on screen and never featured again...jeez, gimme a break.


 That's pretty much the opposite of what's being said here.


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## Dave Hussey (Nov 20, 1998)

Nooooooooooo.

I wants me a Scorpion. Ska-rew the refit! 

Huzz :jest:


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## Arronax (Apr 6, 1999)

Babaganoosh said:


> We are the real backbone of your business!


"500 customers doth not a backbone make" (Hamlet Act 4, Scene 12, I believe)



Babaganoosh said:


> I have to insist that Polar Lights do a survey of those on this board who appreciate Star Trek modeling


I wouldn't hold my breath on this one.



Babaganoosh said:


> 10 to 1 odds says Polar Lights hasn't seen a kit do as poorly as the Scorpion since the Titan AE "Drej" kit.


Can you say Dick Tracy Space Coupe? I knew that you could.



Babaganoosh said:


> Like I say, THIS buletin board is the official sounding board that Polar Lights has provided to us modelers to communicate with each other and hopefully, the powers-that-be at PL.


I give up.

Jim


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Matthew Green said:


> Geez....you Star Trek guys have had it good for so long now...How about doing a survey about us figure modelers?


 I think you guys had a great run, don't you? How many figure kits did PL put out?

We've only gotten 4, going on 5 Trek kits. Only 3 of which I actually wanted, personally.


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## Matthew Green (Nov 12, 2000)

Ok...There is a good chance I could invest in doing a kit one of these days. How much does it cost to fund a kit to be produced? All the way from box art, design, molding etc.....?


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## sbaxter at home (Feb 15, 2004)

Babaganoosh said:


> We are the real backbone of your business! This is the sounding board you've provided to us, the loyal buyers/builders/collectors of your products!
> 
> I have to insist that Polar Lights do a survey of those on this board who appreciate Star Trek modeling of which Star Trek model they'd like to see and in what scale instead of making the decision yourselves behind closed doors


I gotta tell ya that while I certainly want _very much_ to see the Trek model line continue -- and I'm not even close to writing it off yet -- even I read the above and react poorly to it. Standing up and yelling the equivalent of "We pay your salary" and _insisting_ they listen to us and give us what we _demand_ will almost certainly be ignored. And that's the best-case scenario.

Qapla'

SSB


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## Otto69 (Jan 2, 2004)

I've heard the number $50,000 for mastering a styrene kit to first pops.


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## Arronax (Apr 6, 1999)

Ya know, I was going to go the route of "all the PL board members are going to hold their breath until you (the PL powers-that-be) release a Star Trek kit that we really want" but I knew that there were quite a few of us "backbone" members who have real lives to get on with.

I know it might be heresy but there is more to life than Star Trek.

Or figure modeling, for that matter.

Jim


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## TRENDON (May 24, 2000)

Arronax said:


> I know it might be heresy but there is more to life than Star Trek.
> 
> Or figure modeling, for that matter.


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## Zorro (Jun 22, 1999)

I never got a Harry Dean Stanton kit - and I'm a shell of the man I used to be. _Damn you to hell, Polar Lights!_ And I would have to agree with John P. Despite no Harry Dean, PL gave us figger kit guys a pretty good run.


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## beck (Oct 22, 2003)

ya know , if BB members crying out for a kit to be produced was the criteria on which the PTB based their production descisions we'd all have a Disney Nautilus , a Proteus from Fantastic Voyage and BIG FRANKIE to boot . 
hb


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## Dave Hussey (Nov 20, 1998)

Well, I have a Disney Nautilus and a Proteus from Fantastic Voyage but neither of them came from Polar Lights. 

The Nautilus models that I have are the 16 inch $40 X-Plus from Japan and the larger and uber-accurate $220 and 22 inch Bill Babbington-mastered resin model from Disney itself. And the Proteus is the lovely Wilco kit.

Polar Lights did give us some lovely vehicle kits too like the Jupiter II, the C57D, the Spindrift and the Seaview. The real shame is that they could have done so much more in both the figure and vehicle kit lines. 

Huzz


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## Lloyd Collins (Sep 25, 2004)

Why do we respone to these threads? What ever RC2 puts out we are stuck with, but I will never start building cars! I have enough models to last my life time, so if RC2 never puts any model that I am interested in I don't care.


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## xsavoie (Jun 29, 1999)

I always thought that if Polar Lights included an official survey (want list) in each kit box they sold,either to be filled out and sent by mail,or the option that we could fill one on their web site,one wish list per year per modeler,then they would get an idea on what the modelers want exactly.Perhaps even print this survey invitation in many modeling magazines,then they would really get a good idea on the modelers wishes.Surely this would make it a more sure thing for them to issue certain kits.


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## Brent Gair (Jun 26, 1999)

I wish the trekkies could just get their own damn model company and leave the rest of us alone.

PL started out with such promise for lovers of pop culture...the figure kits, the odd ball cars, the sci-fi stuff that others didn't do.

Then the trekkies piled on and thought it would be such a great thing if PL started doing trek stuff too. Of course, that would be the death of PL and most of us knew it. The trekkies drove the old PL out of business, took over most of the BB and spend most of their time complaining about the selection of trek kits.

I wish there was some way we could get the trekkies into one corner of hobby talk without having trekkie stuff on every message board here. They depress the hell out of me.


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## Scott Hasty (Jul 10, 2003)

Ummm, yeah, right....

Five series' over almost thirty years? I think that qualifies for pop culture status....  

Did you pay attention to what ACTUALLY happened to PL?

 

Scottie


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## JGG1701 (Nov 9, 2004)

Scott Hasty said:


> Ummm, yeah, right....
> 
> Five series' over almost thirty years? I think that qualifies for pop culture status....
> 
> ...


Actually .....almost 40 years.


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## Scott Hasty (Jul 10, 2003)

My bust....I SHOULD know that as I turn 40 a few days after its ACTUAL anniversary!

Scottie


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## veedubb67 (Jul 11, 2003)

OK, everybody take a deep breath.......


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## sbaxter at home (Feb 15, 2004)

Off the meds again, I see. 

Qapla'

SSB


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Matthew Green said:


> Ok...There is a good chance I could invest in doing a kit one of these days. How much does it cost to fund a kit to be produced? All the way from box art, design, molding etc.....?


 Talking to Thomas about the future of things, he told me that PL, as a small company, could afford small-run (5,000?) kits that cost about $50k to produce. But RC2, with its overhead and large amounts of middle management to pay, would probably spend a couple of hundred thousand in development, and require a larger production run and much MUCH higher sales numbers to make a profit. Sounds reasonable to me.

But talk to Scott Alexander at Atomic City about privately funded models. I THINK he spent about $50k to get the Mercury capsule done.


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## beck (Oct 22, 2003)

...and that Mercury capsule is a good example of what's right with this hobby . it's truly amazing . let's hope we see more from Atomic City .
hb


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## Dr. Brad (Oct 5, 1999)

Brent Gair said:


> I wish there was some way we could get the trekkies into one corner of hobby talk without having trekkie stuff on every message board here. They depress the hell out of me.


Could be February. February depresses a lot of people too...


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## grantf (Feb 2, 2004)

bla bla bla build something.


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## Mike Warshaw (Feb 23, 1999)

Yesterday, RC2 reported to its investors that "net income for the year ended December 31, 2004 was $34.0 million or $1.72 per diluted share as compared with $38.4 million or $2.12 per diluted share for the year ended December 31, 2003."

Also reported was that "despite the increases from the Playing Mantis acquisition and the positive results from the new American Chopper / Orange County Chopper product line, sales in the collectible products category decreased due to the continued softness in the vehicle replica product lines including difficult comparisons with The Fast and The Furious product line sales last year and the continuing decline in NASCAR product sales."

Maybe RC2 will see Babaganoosh's post and this thread, realize there are hundreds of dollars represented on this board alone that they're leaving on the table, dollars that could pump up those earnings per share, and release that 1/350 TOS Enterprise.

I think Tom Lowe created a company because he wanted to own Johnny Lightnings and an Addams Family house kit. He gave us a lot of kits I had been sure I'd never see in my adulthood. When he was done, he sold it to people who have other goals, and there is simply nothing wrong with that. 

Scott Alexander made the Mercury kit because he wanted it to exist, just like he made beautiful garage kits in the old days, would be my guess.

Any one of us could do the same, and it sure beats tilting at windmills.


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

xsavoie said:


> I always thought that if Polar Lights included an official survey (want list) in each kit box they sold,either to be filled out and sent by mail,or the option that we could fill one on their web site,one wish list per year per modeler,then they would get an idea on what the modelers want exactly..........
> Surely this would make it a more sure thing for them to issue certain kits.


I seem to rember another company that asked it's customes what they wanted and gave it to them!
The product was the Edsel from Ford Motor Co.


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## Dave Metzner (Jan 1, 1970)

When I was "Brand Manager" the first thing I did with threads that demanded that I pay attention was to try to ignore them! After the smoke stopped rolling out of my ears!!!
Some of my replies to these threads upset some board members, OH Wel 

Personally I build Airplanes, Paint figures (mostly resin) and build some cars. I've built every Polar lights kit several times as test shots, Built almost every one as show displays. It's all plastic to me!

$50K will probably get your kit ready for first test shots in China these days, If you don't spend too much on prototypes etc.

That 50K WILL NOT get production kits on the shelf! You will not be able to produce a kit from a first test shot - plan on three to four sets of test shots to get all the little bugs out of the kit.
50K will probably not cover box art or instruction sheets!
Then you'll need to spend dollars for your first production run and dollars to ship the kits in from China and dollars to develop a distribution network so your kits don't sit in a warehouse in beautiful scenic Tacoma WA! 

Oh yeah the guys in Tacoma want to be paid for warehousing your kits too!

You'll want to double that 50K and add a quite a bit more if you are starting from scratch.

When Tom Lowe started dabbling in model kits Playing Mantis already had some established distribution. Tom also spent very little for prototyping on the first 16 kits. and probably thirty of the first thirty-five kits
Most were reverse enginered from original Aurora kits so our development costs were very low. Costs go WAY up when you start developing all new kits some prototypes can cost half of your original 50K!

Scott Alexander found a partner to market his kit! 
MRC, a well established plastic kit marketer is providing distribution and probably covering a lot of these other expenses to bring the kit to the shelves.

I'd suggest that some of us need to chill out. 
This is about a Hobby, Hobbies are supposed to be relaxing, seems to me that some folks here are getting worked over some pretty silly stuff!

Dave


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## iamweasel (Aug 14, 2000)

Maybe those who have spare money laying around could help fund the filming of new Enterprise episodes. I'm sure THAT group cant be too hard to find.


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## petseal (Apr 23, 2002)

Hello...my name is Petseal...and...I am a MODEL JUNKY!

I am 46 years old and have been building models of one kind or another for most of those years. When I started this hobby I built mostly World War II vehicles, whatever I could find and afford in 1/72 scale. I also built any sci-fi kits I could find. In fact in 1979 I was approached by the owner of the local hobby shop to build the model of the Cygnus from "The Black Hole" for the lobby of the movie house. Which to this day brings me great joy and satisfaction that out of all his customers he asked me. (Payment was two passes to the film and the model when the film left.) 

Now a days I love anything-Star Trek (so I take some offence at being typecast as the reason PL was bought out) but I also love Sci-Fi in general, movie/TV cars, figures, props, etc. In all types of mediums: plastics, vinyl, resin, cold cast porcelain, metals. (Don’t do WWII stuff any more)

My dad told me when I was young that this hobby was a waste of time and I could not make any money at it! I agree in part, it uses up a lot of time and there never seems to be enough of it, but I would never say it was wasted! And I have made money doing it. I have built kits for two local comic stores and some of their customers. I do not charge much so I have not made a lot! On the plus side it has enabled me to build kits I have no personally interest in and/or could not afford to buy for myself. 

I have all these special items I buy all the time to do things I would never have thought of as a kid. Lights, decals, metallic tap, there are so many things on the market to do just about anything, to any kit, in any interest. 

What I do not understand is the constant gripping on this BB, and elsewhere. Yes I agree that there is a lot of Star Trek content here. But that franchise is massive so it is to be expected. I forget where but I once read that the Starship Enterprise (TOS) holds the record for being in production through most of the last 40 years. With the upcoming film Star Wars may be just as large, if not bigger, which is why the older kits have re-surfaced. I just hope, for the sake of the hobby, that they do not flood the market as they did with Episode 1. 

The point to all this is I LOVE building kits, just for THE FUN OF IT! 

:thumbsup: I have to agree with Dave Metzner...
"I'd suggest that some of us need to chill out. 
This is about a Hobby, Hobbies are supposed to be relaxing, seems to me that some folks here are getting worked over some pretty silly stuff!"
So I suggest build something YOU like, have some fun with it and ENJOY yourself! Don't worry about what may or may not be produced. Negative thinking or doom saying will just get in the way of the creativity and spoil what pleasure you may get from what you create. 

And don't forget to post pics of your work. I am amazed sometimes with the ideas that appear in kit form. They sometimes get me thinking too...

Later, your friend and fellow enthusiast, Petseal :wave:


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

What ya gotta remember, Dave, is we Trek modelers are as rabid as the rest of the trek fans. And we were SO psyched when PL announced the license, and SO psyched when we learned Thomas was mastering some of them. and *SO *crushed when the company was sold and _*SO *_afraid the rug was being pulled out from under us. Yanked our hopes up and dashed 'em to the ground! :lol: And now, even how-many-months-later, we still don't know for sure what's going to happen. I'm not exactly getting anxiety attacks over it all, but I get awfully cranky when I think about it .


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## DinoMike (Jan 1, 1970)

It's not just Trek modelers either. I build Trek models.. also Aurora figures, both original & repop... and custom cars from 60s TV series.

Excepting the latter subject... PL was pretty much our only resource short of garage kits and their high-overhead pricing. Aurora repops of kits I never thought I'd get my hands on for less than a month's salary... great NEW figure kits... and Trek kits that were far ahead of what AMT/Ertl had ever produced.

Now we're kinda left adrift here... the 1/350 refit is on the way, but after that, who knows? I know there were plans announced for a 1/1000 NX-01, but with the series gone, that may be gone as well. The Cap America repro is another on my list of kits to buy, as soon as he shows at my local hobby shop.... but will that be it for figure kits from RC2/PL? I hope not... I still wish that new-sculpt Creature from the Black Lagoon had happened.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

That may be a great subject for a nostalgia book in about 20 years - _*"Kits that Auroira Didn't Make that Polar Lights Almost Made that Racing Champions Cancelled." :freak:*_


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## xsavoie (Jun 29, 1999)

Speaking of AURORA kits POLAR LIGHTS should have done,these five figures on horses should have been done,all in 1/8th scale.Gold Knight on Horse,Apache on Horse,Confederate Raider on horse,Lone Ranger and Zorro too.Hopefully on horses in different action position.


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## CaptFrank (Jan 29, 2005)

Petseal-
"Star Wars may be just as large, if not bigger, which is why the older kits have re-surfaced. I just hope, for the sake of the hobby, that they do not flood the market as they did with Episode 1."

Flood the market? I only saw four kits: Anakin's pod racer, Trade Federation droid starfighters, Droid STAPP, Federation Tank.

Were there others that I never heard about?


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## CaptFrank (Jan 29, 2005)

OK, Babaganoosh, everyone's talking about everything but the point of
your original post. 
The Poll.
What ship(s) do you want to see made (That you hope a poll will support, and convince RC2 to fabricate.) ?


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## Dr. Brad (Oct 5, 1999)

And, of course, what increases the anxiety for everyone is not just what we see happening, but we don't see anymore. Over the years at this forum, everyone got rather used to hearing from the powers that be (or close to it). Now we don't. That was to be expected, of course, but most of us would just like a definitive answer - yes there will be more figures, sci-fi whatever, or no there won't be. Reasons why would help. But that kind of input doesn't look too likely.

Brad


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## Ziz (Feb 22, 1999)

CaptFrank said:


> Petseal-
> "Star Wars may be just as large, if not bigger, which is why the older kits have re-surfaced. I just hope, for the sake of the hobby, that they do not flood the market as they did with Episode 1."
> 
> Flood the market? I only saw four kits: Anakin's pod racer, Trade Federation droid starfighters, Droid STAPP, Federation Tank.
> ...


No, "flooded the market with Episode 1" in terms of the quantity of each product produced, overestimating the public's buying ability. The kits weren't bad, they just made too much physical inventory of them compared to what actually sold.


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## petseal (Apr 23, 2002)

Ziz said:


> No, "flooded the market with Episode 1" in terms of the quantity of each product produced, overestimating the public's buying ability. The kits weren't bad, they just made too much physical inventory of them compared to what actually sold.


Thanks ZIZ! That's what I was referring to by "flooded the market with Episode 1"! 
I had pre-ordered the STAP because I really like robots and this one looked so cool! After seeing the movie I bought the Tank. The rest I thought where OK but I really was not overly interested. A few months later it seemed every major outlet had them for $5.00 or less. That's when I bought the rest. If memory serves there was... 

1 STAP w/Droid
2 Trade Federation Tank 
3 Anakin's Pod Racer
4 Naboo Starfighter (plastic)
5 Naboo Starfighter (metal)
6 Trade Federation Droidfighters (set of 3)
7 Gungan Sub (this one was cut off mid-run so it is very scarce, I only ever saw one in Windsor and it was very expensive)

I seem to recall seeing a pre-order (Previews?) for a three piece set of Droids but as far as I know it was never made.
I also heard that because of this manufacturing blunder there were no models for Episode 2 released in North American. I do not know or remember if this was the model company backing away or if Lucas said no! I heard he gave/sold permission for one kit, of the Jedi Fighter, from Japan. Really great looking kit but small, 1/72 scale.
That's about all I remember so please do not hesitate to conferm or correct me as I would like to know too! 
Later, Petseal :wave:


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

^Those kits are still on the shelves at Hiway Hobby [shrug]


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## Babaganoosh (Dec 16, 2004)

One of the marks of a good company is listening to the popular demands (or shall I say "requests") of their customers. For a company to not do research into how well a kit would sell is completely asinine because if a kit that costs a ton of money to master does poorly on the shelves is suicide for that line of kits. 

Anyone care to guess what one of the last Trek kits that Monogram put out?

So, no one agrees that a more popular Star Trek kit would sell better than a less popular subject? Which would you prefer, in all honesty - a 1/350th scale Klingon K'tinga or a 1/1000th scale Qatai vessel from some obscure episode of Voyager?

Do the math, sleep on it, think about it and get back to me.


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## CaptFrank (Jan 29, 2005)

I agree with you, Babaganoosh.

I'm just curious about what ship(s) or kit(s) you would like to see made.


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## Babaganoosh (Dec 16, 2004)

CaptFrank said:


> I agree with you, Babaganoosh.
> 
> I'm just curious about what ship(s) or kit(s) you would like to see made.



Whichever the general ST modeling community votes on. They (the public) knows what we want (apparenty ahem, GW...ahem) I have faith in whatever the public chooses. 

Personally, though; I want a 1/350th scale Oberth or Constellation class. That's just me, though. I know others would disagree but I'm only one man. I can't speak for others ergo, the vote. :dude: 

Who knows, someone might some up with a better idea that a lot of people would like to see produced.


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## spe130 (Apr 13, 2004)

I'm still hoping for a re-release of the later, more accurate AMT/Ertl Trek kits under the PL name. The work is done, so it would be a relatively low-risk/high-reward proposition. After that, when Trek sales look good, we can start talking about new stuff. Personally, I want a 1/350 _Ent_-C (and a bigger house to display it!).  Realistically, the resurrection of the _K'Tinga_ project would be nice, as would a 1/350 _Reliant_ and a continuation of the _Enterprise_ line in 1/1000: D, E, C, A, B, NX (not that I don't like the Refit...just giving it some time between the big kit and a smaller one).


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## CaptFrank (Jan 29, 2005)

1/350th Oberth, Constellation, Miranda, Ambassador, and K'Tinga!
Great ideas!
I'm in!!


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## Edge (Sep 5, 2003)

If you haven't seen it, and want something positive to chew on,
here is a (unofficial) poll done last year on what Trek people wanted next:

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=76446&page=1

Edge


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

And remember the 1/350 TOS Enterprise isn't on the poll because it's assumed to be THE most wanted model.


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## sbaxter at home (Feb 15, 2004)

petseal said:


> I heard he gave/sold permission for one kit, of the Jedi Fighter, from Japan. Really great looking kit but small, 1/72 scale.


So far, FineMolds has released two kits from Episode II -- the Jedi Starfighter you mention, which was indeed great but tiny, and Jango Fett's _Slave I_ in 1/72nd -- great and not so tiny.

Qapla'

SSB


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## petseal (Apr 23, 2002)

sbaxter at home said:


> So far, FineMolds has released two kits from Episode II -- the Jedi Starfighter you mention, which was indeed great but tiny, and Jango Fett's _Slave I_ in 1/72nd -- great and not so tiny.
> 
> Qapla'
> 
> SSB


Thanks "sbaxter at home", that one did not occur to me as it is a fairly resent release. I wouldn't mind getting that one to display with the Jedi Fighter. 
Later, Petseal :wave:


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## Mitchellmania (Feb 14, 2002)

Polar Lights is dead DEAD!!!! Bye Bye!!! Nada!!!


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## CaptFrank (Jan 29, 2005)

I sense you're trying to tell us something.
I wonder what it could be...


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## Mitchellmania (Feb 14, 2002)

gone...*


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