# Cleaning Questions



## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

Hi Guys,

A couple questions.

1. Does anyone know if the copper/brass cleaner Noxon is safe for plastic? I bought a bottle today and tried it on an old Aurora T-Jet chassis that has seen better days. I put some on a Q-Tip and applied it to the copper underside. a little rubbing and it cleaned up the copper to a nice shine. A quick rinse and a bath in the ultrasonic cleaner and it looks like new. One of the brush springs did break off, but I'm sure that wasn't from the clearner. This is an old chassis from my "I don't know where I got this" parts box and someone had melted some of the plastic to hold the brush springs against the chassis, so the metal was probably already weakened.

2. I also saw a silver cleaner cream while I was in the store. It is made by Wright. They also make a copper cleaner. Anyone ever use that brand? I'd like to also clean up my old AFX chassis and shoes.

3. How can you tell if your ultrasonic cleaner is actually doing anything? I put stuff in there with a mixture of Simple Green and water, and I really don't see anything happening. I have a Chicago Electronics brand I picked up at Harbor Freight.

4. If the contact points on the electricals are clean, does it matter if there is tarnish/buildup on the rest of the electricals? For instance, if the front contact patch and hook area of pickup shoes are clean, does it matter if the rest of the shoe, or the underside, is also bright and clean?

I was just wondering. Now that I broke that one brush spring, is there a way to remove the rivet, replace the copper piece for the brush spring, and reattach it? Where would I get the rivets?

Thanks...Joe


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## 440s-4ever (Feb 23, 2010)

Let the ultrasonic cleaner run for 30-60 minutes, it takes a while for water to degas and begin transmitting waves at full force. If you want to verify function hang a strip of tinfoil in the tank. It ought to look beat up in under a minute and have pinholes within 2-3 minutes. Every tank (and foil) combo is different. Good luck


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

KABOOM 


...works _great _for copper


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

I have been taking some old Aurora T-Jets, AFX and MTs and cleaning them with either Noxon for copper or Wright's silver cream for the AFX. After shining up the electricals and giving them a quick ultra sonic bath (I can see the cleaner working real well now), the cars are greatly improved and are almost too fast to handle on my 20v power packs. Where I see the biggest improvement is at the low end - they have a very controllable slow speed.

But I have a question. Some of the AFX and MT chassis, which I picked up in a lot at a show, are in really poor shape - electricals wise. I think all the silver has worn/scratched off and it's down to the base metal. Would that base metal be copper?

Thanks...Joe


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## bobwoodly (Aug 25, 2008)

Yes, the silver coating is on top of copper. Some cleaning techniques will remove this finish. I don't know what, if any impact this has on the performance of the chassis. I use 100% simple green as my cleaner. I'm not looking for a bright shine as much as a clean chassis. I've also used Tarnex and a product called "never dull" that is a wadding in a can (seems to clean armatures well) but for the most part simple green undiluted works fine for me.


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## Dslot (Sep 2, 2007)

> _Joe sez: _Some of the AFX and MT chassis, which I picked up in a lot at a show, are in really poor shape - electricals wise. I think all the silver has worn/scratched off and it's down to the base metal. Would that base metal be copper?


Joe, 
Since you asked specifically -- practically everybody here refers to the Aurora electrical bits as *copper*. I believe this is not quite correct, based on long experience in model railroading. 

Copper is very soft and very flexible. As I recall, reddish model and toy electrical conductors, especially sliding or rubbing contacts, are usually *phosphor bronze* -- an alloy of copper, tin and phosphorus. It is much harder and springier than copper, but more brittle. It's notable for toughness, strength, and low coefficient of friction, sez Wikipedia.

Based on the original Tuff Ones shoes I've examined, I'd agree Aurora's silver-colored bits are plating on phosphor bronze, but I'll bet the plating is nickel. Silver is very soft and I think a constantly-sliding pickup shoe would wear it off in short order. Nickel is a common plating for electrical parts because it inhibits insulating oxidation and is harder than silver.

Maybe one of the technical-minded forum members with slot-specific knowledge can verify this one way or the other.

I don't know if it makes any practical difference for cleaning or using the material, though.

-- D


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

Alloy! Yes! Agreed D!

Additional note: Joe L., somewhere in the way back is a guy who uses ketchup to clean up chassis electrical components. Cant remember his handle though.

I'm a Tarnex tard myself. Little splash in the bottom of my 4 square tupperware, toss in six er eight chassis tubs including shoes or clamps and rinse off with hot water and blow them dry. This is THE oppurtune moment to tap up any loose rivets.

For a little more spiff, I toothbrush the aftermath with a paste made from house hold cleanser and water. It adds a bit of luster back to the contacts that can sometimes appear pocked after chemically etching with Tarnex.

Occaisionally you have to freshen the pot and clean out the scunge; but I've been using the same bottle for years and barely have a few glugs off the top. Very fast, very effective with minimum consumption and therefore cost effective to me because my time is worth something. Pretty caustic as stuff goes and environmentally friendly as it sits, but a simple matter to neutralize the spent dregs with a glug of vinegar prior to disposal.


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

D - The Noxon is good for copper and bronze, so it will handle either base metal, which is nice. It does not handle silver. 

I've been cleaning the chassis with a Q-Tip. Put some cleaner on the Q-Tip, wipe it on, let it sit for a minute or two, then wipe it off with a Q-Tip. Then a quick bath in the ultrasonic cleaner with straight water and you have got shiny electricals on the chassis - unless the AFX silver coating has been worn/scratched off.

The Q-Tip is obviously very gentle, yet it is enough to shine the electricals. Just a drop of Noxon shines the comm up nice and bright. The Noxon is more creamy than the Wright's, which is like a paste. I go over the chassis with a toothbrush and water after the UC bath, just to make sure everything is clean. Then dry with a towel and some compressed air. Takes about 30 minutes per chassis.

And not all AFX chassis have tarnished electricals. Some look as new as the day they were made. Must be different types of metals that were used.

I may need to redo those few abused AFX chassis with the copper/bronze cleaner. There's no need to change them out as they run fine.

One area that is very hard to clean is the brush contacts. I try to get some cleaner in there and rub it in, but it's tough. I found a small stone bit with a flat head that is the same size as the brush hole opening. I found I can use it to clean the brush contact point on the MT chassis.

Anyone got any hints on how to best get the brush contacts clean? I have found this to be a major source of electrical resistance.

Thanks...Joe


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

Grandcheapskate said:


> I was just wondering. Now that I broke that one brush spring, is there a way to remove the rivet, replace the copper piece for the brush spring, and reattach it? Where would I get the rivets?
> 
> Thanks...Joe


I remember seeing a vendor at Aberdeen a few shows back that was selling repaired chassis...had a box of rivets there on the table...he _may_ have been offering repair services...so if you go there, take it along.


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## LDThomas (Nov 30, 1999)

Bill Hall said:


> Additional note: Joe L., somewhere in the way back is a guy who uses ketchup to clean up chassis electrical components. Cant remember his handle though.


I won't claim to be the guy from way back but I do use ketchup to clean the copper/alloy pieces of my cars. The acid in the ketchup is the perfect formula for removing tarnish and gunk from the electricals. :thumbsup:

Just put some ketchup in a flat bottom Tupperware sandwich container and drop in a few chassis and parts. Come back in an hour or two and rinse them clean.


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

Gonna git me some frenched fried putaders to go wid dat ketchup ...

mmmm.....hmmmm

Sorry, no offense intended. First thing to go is the memory....if it was more than last week or I've slept twice....it's "way back".


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

Interesting problem I've encountered. I've been doing the old AFX and MTs with silver cream on the electricals. After wiping off the chassis with a rag, I put the chassis, brushes and brush springs (for the MT) into the ultrasonic cleaner. I can see a lot of left over silver cream coming off the chassis. Once that's done, I use Simple green on a toothbrush and clean off the chassis electricals. Finally, dry the chassis and use some compressed air. I then use a drop of Noxon on the comm to get all the old crud off and get a shiny, like new com surface.

Then I reassemble the car. And on some cars, nothing happens. No movement and no indication at all that electricity is getting through. I then take the chassis apart, wipe everything down again (just with a rag) and reassemble. Now the car starts to run and after a lap or two, it's flying around.

I think the problem is two fold. (1) there is some film left behind by the Noxon on the comm and it needs to wear off and (2) the brushes are still dirty and really need to be cleaned better; if so, how to do a better job?

Thoughts?

Thanks...Joe


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## LDThomas (Nov 30, 1999)

Brushes in the ultrasonic cleaner? Hmmm...

If I am not going to replace the brushes, I have the best results by baking the crud out of them. The Cold Heat soldering device works great for burning crud out of brushes.


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## bobwoodly (Aug 25, 2008)

I've used simple green soak on the brushes and it helps. I have heard people will heat (like in a frying pan) to burn the gunk off like LD does.


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## Zelda84 (Aug 15, 2006)

Reviving an old thread...
I just ordered an Ultrasonic cleaner myself. I'm curious to clean the chassis, what if I added a couple of capfuls of simple green to the cleaner water? Let it warm up for like 15-20 min and drop in the chassis? Anyone else do this? Or any other good additive beside straight water?
Thanks!


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

edit.


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## bobwoodly (Aug 25, 2008)

I use straight Simple Green, no water. Also good for stripping paint.


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## Rolls (Jan 1, 2010)

I use a paste of Comet and vinegar to clean up old AFX chassis. It works great. No ultrasonic cleaning yet, though.


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## slotking (May 27, 2008)

my cheap 419 target ultr cleaner works great, I use the stuff that come with it and also vinegar 

I will leave chassis in for 24hrs with no harm and real clean

I take them out and spay them with safe on plastic brake or electronics spay


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## joegri (Feb 13, 2008)

sorry for such a silly question but..... do you leave the arm n gearplate on the chassis when you submerge the chassis in the ultra sonic cleaning device? i dont have the ultra machine but i have thought about getting 1 at the hf store.


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## slotking (May 27, 2008)

some guys yes, i 
I run scared and do not, plus i used it mainly on the chassis and to hopefully have clean between the plates?????


I will do an arm for 30min but not more
do not want anything coming lose


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## clemedc (Feb 2, 2011)

vinegar and salt works very well on copper its amazing.


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## martybauer31 (Jan 27, 2004)

joegri said:


> sorry for such a silly question but..... do you leave the arm n gearplate on the chassis when you submerge the chassis in the ultra sonic cleaning device? i dont have the ultra machine but i have thought about getting 1 at the hf store.


Take the arm out....


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