# Mamba MAX with a Novak 10.5 motor?



## dr_destructo (Feb 16, 2009)

Can I use a Novak 10.5 motor with my Mamba MAX s/c? I've been running a 10.5 Sprintcar class and some people are complaining about my Mamba 4600kv motor. Since there is no easy or official way to compare them I thought about changing.


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## Kyosho Racer (Feb 6, 2008)

I don't think you can. The Novak is a sensored system and the Mamba isn't. By that I mean there is a sensor wire hard wired to the Novak motors that plugs into the ESC. The motors won't run without the sensor wires.

Hope this helps,
Jeff


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## ta_man (Apr 10, 2005)

Ahh, people offering opinions without knowledge. But I guess that's what makes them _opinions_.

Fact: Novak motors run fine on sensorless speed controls without the sensor cables plugged in, provided the speed control can start the motor (which depends on the wind of the motor, not the sensor cable).

I've run a novak 8.5 with a Castle Sidewinder (little brother to the Mamba Max) and it ran better with the Castle speed control than with the Novak. That was in an offroad truck, but when I ran it on our oval just to try it, it ran fine there too.

That said, the higher the turn of the motor, the harder it will be for the sensorless speed control to start the motor. Depending on your gearing and rollout, you may or may not have problems getting the 10.5 to start. Once started, it will run fine. I never had problems with my 8.5. People have reported that the 13.5s are hard to start but also run fine once started (actually, once started, better on a Mamba Max than on a Novak because the dynamic timing of the Mamba).


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## nutz4rc (Oct 14, 2003)

If TA MAN said it, you can take it to the bank. He has never given bad info.


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## Leonard (Jan 16, 2007)

From what I gathered people were having more problems with the 17.5's and 13.5's on start, and as you said after they were rolling they were fine. I would think that the 10.5 would be fine.


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## Kyosho Racer (Feb 6, 2008)

Well I stand corrected, sorry for the misinformation. All I know is if my sensor wire comes unpluged my car stops.


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## ta_man (Apr 10, 2005)

Kyosho Racer said:


> Well I stand corrected, sorry for the misinformation. All I know is if my sensor wire comes unpluged my car stops.


Because you are using a speed control that doesn't know how to run sensorless motors. A Novak maybe? Novaks can only run the motor if it has info from the sensors. A Mamba gets its info from the back-emf of the BL motor coils and doesn't need sensors.


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## CBHVR6 (May 5, 2009)

at the end of the month, the mamba max pro comes out. Sensored/Sensorless ESC and up to 6S capable


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## BuzzBomber (Jun 20, 2008)

CBHVR6 said:


> at the end of the month, the mamba max pro comes out. *Sensored/Sensorless ESC and up to 6S capable*


Ah, that's why so much $$$ for the new version.


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## ta_man (Apr 10, 2005)

BuzzBomber said:


> Ah, that's why so much $$$ for the new version.


What do you mean "So much $$$ for the new one"? Tower has it listed for $8 less than the original Mamba Max.

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXXWH5&P=ML

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXUTA3&P=ML

Patrick (president of Castle) said in one of the RC Monster forums that the reason it is less expensive is lower chip count (modern chips do more I guess) and, possibly because of that, less manual (hand) work in assembly. So they are passing the production savings on to the consumer.


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## BuzzBomber (Jun 20, 2008)

ta_man said:


> What do you mean "So much $$$ for the new one"? Tower has it listed for $8 less than the original Mamba Max.
> 
> http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXXWH5&P=ML
> 
> ...



You're right Mark. Mea culpa. They've updated the price to "actual pricing'. Last time I looked on Tower they had it listed as $189.99 or something in that range (and no expected date). I have a feeling the original price I saw was like the $399.99 retail you see on a Factory Team B4 box. Good news, I may pony up the extra $$ over a sidewinder next time I buy an ESC:thumbsup:.


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## CustomWire (Jan 12, 2009)

novaks 10.5s run at 4200kv witch is around 35280 rpms at 8.4v off a lipo 2s 
the momba 4600 at 8.4v 2s lipo is around 38640 rpms so i can see why they a lil ticked off ... 3000 rpms can make a bit of a diff i would think .. 

KV times BatVolts equals RPMS


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## ta_man (Apr 10, 2005)

CustomWire said:


> novaks 10.5s run at 4200kv witch is around 35280 rpms at 8.4v off a lipo 2s
> the momba 4600 at 8.4v 2s lipo is around 38640 rpms so i can see why they a lil ticked off ... 3000 rpms can make a bit of a diff i would think ..
> 
> KV times BatVolts equals RPMS


There is more to power output that KV. The motor design makes a difference. The Mamba is designed for higher power output than the Novak.

The extreme example is that the motors commonly used in electric 1/8th scales have KV ratings around 2000 but produce *much more* power than a Novak 10.5 rated at 4200KV or a Mamba rated at 4600KV.


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## dr_destructo (Feb 16, 2009)

Thanks for all the info. I just aquired a TEKIN Redline 10.5 motor to try. Tekin says it is sensored or sensorless. We shall see. Let you know what happens.


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## dr_destructo (Feb 16, 2009)

OK, just to update this thread. I got the Tekin 10.5 Redline(sensored) motor in my car. Hooked up to a Mamba Max esc. It works fine! No cogging or hesitation. No problems that I can detect. I ran it for a good 15-20 mins at race speed and it was only warm to the touch. The power delivery seems to be smoother too. Easier to control. Brakes seems to actually work now instead of locking up. All settings are the same as I had them for the Mamba 4600kv. There is SLIGHTLY less power overall, but the driveability MORE than makes up for it. I did even go up a few teeth on the pinion to get a bit more top speed.


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