# O/T Formula 1 Question



## rudykizuty (Aug 16, 2007)

Been developing an interest in the Formula 1 series lately. Have watched the last 4 races straight, anyway. Some ending to this morning's event, eh?

Question for you guys who know better than I......the flashing red lights on the back of the cars.........At first I thought they might be brake lights, but then I noticed this morning (or so I think) some flashing on a car or two that appeared to be accelerating.........while other cars around them that were also accelerating were not flashing. 

So, I'm stumped as to when or why some flash and others don't


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## coach61 (Sep 6, 2004)

rudykizuty said:


> Been developing an interest in the Formula 1 series lately. Have watched the last 4 races straight, anyway. Some ending to this morning's event, eh?
> 
> Question for you guys who know better than I......the flashing red lights on the back of the cars.........At first I thought they might be brake lights, but then I noticed this morning (or so I think) some flashing on a car or two that appeared to be accelerating.........while other cars around them that were also accelerating were not flashing.
> 
> So, I'm stumped as to when or why some flash and others don't


Those are rain lights. There a mostiure sensor in the car that should activate it when conditions call for it.. of course sometimes this doesn't work and todays weather was strange so not all were active.. watch the next heavy rain race they will all be on..


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## RiderZ (Feb 19, 2007)

*!!!*

Those red flashing lights also indicate when the pit lane rev limiter is on.


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## joeslotcar (Mar 12, 2003)

*Lewis was a bad boy..*

Just read on the F1 site they penalized LH 25 seconds for cutting the chicane near the end when he tangled with Massa. That put him to 3rd and Massa got the win and is only 2 pts behind.


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## rudykizuty (Aug 16, 2007)

joeslotcar said:


> Just read on the F1 site they penalized LH 25 seconds for cutting the chicane near the end when he tangled with Massa. That put him to 3rd and Massa got the win and is only 2 pts behind.


Wow. 

Okay, tell me what part I missed. It looked to me that there was some hard racing going on through the chicanes. The Ferrari forced LH off into the escape route, which put LH ahead. LH then rightfully gave the lead back to Ferrari and the race went on from there. Did I get that right? 

Strange that they would not make that call during the race and then take away the win after the whole post-race podium thing. That just seems so wrong. :freak:


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## tjettim (Nov 29, 2005)

Sounds like the FIM has been watching too many Nascar races.


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## coach61 (Sep 6, 2004)

joeslotcar said:


> Just read on the F1 site they penalized LH 25 seconds for cutting the chicane near the end when he tangled with Massa. That put him to 3rd and Massa got the win and is only 2 pts behind.


No secret I dislike Hamilbum.. but that is just so wrong..which Pub they drag these stewards out of..


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## joeslotcar (Mar 12, 2003)

Sorry I mis-stated LH tangled with Massa, It was Raikkonen that he was racing with and he tried to pass on the inside. Kimi did not give him the inside and LH cut the corner. Any way you look at it, you cannot cut the corner. That is a penalty. The announcers (I think it was Hobbs) screamed, "you can' do that!" I know F1 has it's problems, but that was a good call in my book.


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## coach61 (Sep 6, 2004)

He gacve the spot back that's all the sporting reg's call for..Not the first bad call i have seen ion f1 thats for sure lol...


Dave


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## rudykizuty (Aug 16, 2007)

I agree. He gave the lead back and that should have been good enough. But even if that weren't enough.......okay, I can accept that a wrong move is just plain wrong. 

That said......my issue is that they called nothing _during the race_. If it was wrong when it happened, then where were the FIA officials? 

Instead.......It happened, he gave the lead back, two laps later he wins anyway, gets up on the podium, the flags come up, the anthem is played, trophies are handed out, champagne for everyone, okay now time for the press conference, sit down, talk about the race for a while, and then after everyone goes home there's "Oh, by the way......" from the FIA. There comes a point where you have to let it be. That point had already long passed when they made this decision. That's the part that I believe is so bad. 

It's also disappointing because I have only started watching F1 with interest a few weeks ago and was really starting to like it.


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## Voxxer (Oct 25, 2003)

*Red Lights*

Hello:

Rudykizuty, the lights have two functions. First, as RideZ posted, the lights must be turned on when the FIA calls the race a "Rain Race" and must be on at all times.
Second, when a F1 car slows to a speed of 65mph or slower the red light automaticaly turns on to motifiy the cars behind that the car is slower then 65mph. As you stated it seems that some have them on while speeding up or coming out of a turn. When watching them come into or out of the "box" or pit, the light will always be on because most pit row speed are 55mph or slower. 

Another thing to watch on pit row is when coming in for fuel before hitting the box, the driver will hit a button that will open the fuel door. After leaving, when the car speeds up to 55 mph the door will automaticialy close without the driver having to do anything.

Voxxer

Check out two shows on Speed, one is Inside Grand Prix and the other is Formula 1 Debrief.
Both shows give techinical infomation on the race and cars.


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## rudykizuty (Aug 16, 2007)

Thanks, Voxxer......good stuff. :thumbsup:


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## SplitPoster (May 16, 2006)

Missed this race due to work.... two sides to this one, but it is over. One thing for sure, Monza will be intense off track and on, will NOT miss this one!


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

Yes race fans, F1 has now officially and unambiguously jumped the shark. To alter the race outcome with a static time penalty applied 2 hours after the race is over is totally disgusting. If they had applied the penalty on the track in the form of a pit drive through or 25 second hold in the pits, thereby giving Hamilton the opportunity to recover from the infraction then there would be at least a hint of fair play and sportsmanship. The current F1 "leadership" is a total disgrace to the tradition of one of the greatest forms of motor sports the world has ever known. I'm a big Ferrari fan, but there is no savoring this hollow piece of administrative malfeasance as being anything resembling a sporting victory.


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## coach61 (Sep 6, 2004)

AfxToo said:


> Yes race fans, F1 has now officially and unambiguously jumped the shark. To alter the race outcome with a static time penalty applied 2 hours after the race is over is totally disgusting. If they had applied the penalty on the track in the form of a pit drive through or 25 second hold in the pits, thereby giving Hamilton the opportunity to recover from the infraction then there would be at least a hint of fair play and sportsmanship. The current F1 "leadership" is a total disgrace to the tradition of one of the greatest forms of motor sports the world has ever known. I'm a big Ferrari fan, but there is no savoring this hollow piece of administrative malfeasance as being anything resembling a sporting victory.



Well said too. hope for the future without madmax...


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## resinmonger (Mar 5, 2008)

F1 took a dive when Bernie moved from team owner (Brabham) to FIA Czar. Max is just Bernie's right hand man.


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## Rolo9th (Apr 4, 2008)

As a big F-1 fan for 25 years or so, I am totally disgusted with the ruling. Hamilton should not have been penalized for the move in my opinion, because he had no options then 1) Causing a crash with Raikkonen, which would have resulted in a penalty for causing an "avoidable" accident, and subsequently taken both guys out of the race, or 2) moving into the grass. He did the better of the 2 options, in my opinion, and when he came back onto the track, he backed off to allow Raikkonen to pass him, as he should have, and then proceeded to get right back on his tail and continue the hunt. I really don't see what advantage he gained by going off track, as he surrendered the position voluntarily (apparently his in-car telemetry shows he let off the gas to give up the position). Also, no one is talking about the fact that a few turns later, Raikkonen went way wide, and used an entire curve's run off area, and during the time he was off track, he stayed on the gas, and came back on track almost on Hamilton's rear wing. Even the SPEED commentators said "HE LOST NO TIME". I fail to understand why one "off road" excursion is punishable, but the other is not...

Spa is one of my favorite tracks, and a great race there was marred by a very bad ruling. For years, FIA has made favorable rulings in Ferrari's favor, and the one this past weekend just takes the cake. Its no wonder that many fans of F-1 refer to FIA as "Ferrari In Abstentia" or "Ferrari's Interests Always".


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## 1976Cordoba (Sep 20, 2000)

Since Hamilton was faster at that stage if he was smart he should have just fell back behind and followed Raikkonen thru La Source and then passed him in Eau Rouge or on the next straightaway. Then no one could question it.

I think the fact that he ducked behind Raikkonen's car for what -- a half second -- and then darted right back out to pass, is what caused the race stewards to question if he gained an advantage. He was right up Kimi's gearbox after he cut the chicane and ducked back in line.

And for the record, Ferrari did not seek the penalty on Hamilton. The race stewards decided to assess the penalty.

A little controversial but this too will pass. Onward to MONZA!!! :woohoo:


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## SplitPoster (May 16, 2006)

Have to agree with Doba, as described the whole incident could be viewed as one racing move, a set up and pass. Haven't been a card carrying Tifosi, but after last year's filegate it's a bit hard to rah rah for team McLaren either. 

Have to say I'll be pulling for the Toro Rosso guys (Ferrari light?) and BMW Sauber to do well!


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## 22tall (Jul 28, 2002)

All the rules require is that he give up the position. He did that. McLaren has filed their protest and also stated that the officials verified twice that everything was OK. Bernie hates McLaren.

It's funny that F1 makes these decisions with all the speed of a snail. Anyone see the race a couple years ago when they blackflagged a driver with one lap to go for an infraction at the start of the race?


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## Rolo9th (Apr 4, 2008)

Not to keep flogging a dead horse, BUT....

While watching the practice session from Monza today, they did a small recap on SPEED of the incident. The footage from a different angle shows that while Raikkonen and Hamilton were going around the turn in question, side by side, Raikkonen's front wheels were NOT turned to the right, to give both cars enough room to negotiate the turn, but rather, pointed straight ahead, so as to force Hamilton wide and to run into the grassy area. In essence, Hamilton had no option but to run off into the grassy area. Had he let off the gas, because the way the cars were interlocked as it was, he would have had Raikkonen's front edge of his rear wheel impact with the rear edge of Hamilton's right front tire, most likely taking both of them out of the race. 

FWIW, I am not a big Hamilton supporter, (More a Nick Heidfeld/BMW fan) but I really feel that this penalty was very unjust. I hope that McLaren's appeal is heard and fairly studied taking into account all of the factors.


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

BMW Tycos rule


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## SplitPoster (May 16, 2006)

I don't know how F 1 rules differ specificly, but to quote FIA based rules:

"The responsibility for the decision to pass another car and to accomplish it safely rests with the overtaking driver." 

An abrupt change in direction to impede the overtaking driver can be viewed as blocking, and not allowing racing room. However, the leading driver does not have to alter his line through a corner to accomodate someone trying to pass him, he only is supposed to attempt to avoid contact. The corner belongs to the leading driver, and if he is driving using the preferred line and apexes, he has the right to be there. 

Calls are going to be subjective, but the "tie" goes to the leader. The reasoning is clear - the leading car can't anticipate what somebody behind him will do, he can only maintain his line.


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

While going through a mall, I saw this in the window of a store and thought it might fit in here somewhere.









:thumbsup:


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## SplitPoster (May 16, 2006)

enjoyed the race today a lot - STR on top of the podium! Who-da thunk it? 1st and 3rd :thumbsup:, two of my favorites

I heard the rules for today's race explained as follows: if you go straight through a chicane and gain a spot: give up the position and don't attempt to pass again until after the following corner. You may not like it, and it is "clarification after the fact", but that is the right policy. Pull a banzai move on somebody and go straight through a chicane and get all the leading driver all out of shape and off line - the passer may come out behind, but can be in a much better track position and in the right gear to accelerate more effectively and with better traction if the leader ended up altering his speed, braking points and line through the corner and hasn't regained his composure. 

Kinda hafta wonder if the FIA really treats McLaren so unfairly, or if what goes around comes around. Last year when McLaren-Mercedes STOLE confidential Ferrari technical data during the season - a lot of it - and used it to take advantage for their own set ups and strategies - they were fined $100,000,000. !!!! BUT, the team was not disqualified, and their drivers were still allowed to compete for the driver's world championship. McLaren were just disqualified from winning the manufacturer's championship. Now, every fan knows who wins the driver's championship and what they were driving, few remember if a different team won the manufacturer's title. A financial penalty, but if it were any other business or sport one could argue that severe penalties involving participation would have been delivered. 

Now David Hobbs can gripe about Bernie and the FIA and stand up for his fellow Brit, but I think the McLaren drivers got more than a fair shake at the end of last season, much better than anyone would expect given what happened. 

All I can say is..... great to see Vettel and Kubica on the podium (I like Kovallienen too, got to like the #2 behind the chosen one), Ferrari struggled in the wet but Massa finished ahead of Hamilton, and Kimi once again set fastest lap of the race. Poor Bourdias had crap for luck.


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

I missed the last race, therefore this whole thread. I saw this one, it was different, not seeing Hamilton up front the whole race. With five to go you could just feel everyone going "What,.... what's happening.......... Where's Massa and Hamilton?" While they were thinking that, Nascar Rich was thinking "Where's the caution?.... What, no green white checker?"
I kinda wish Nascar had a podium, with the flags raised from the top three states. But then again, I wish they had a real points system too.
"Where's Speed Racer?...... and all the loops?"

Rich


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

Finally in Brazil this weekend!


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## Voxxer (Oct 25, 2003)

*Race*

Hello:

I could be wrong, but, if Massa wins and Hamilton finishes 5 th or better, Hamilton is world champ. If Hamilton places anyone spot before Massa, Hamilton is again world champ.

Massa needs to finish 7 points above Hamilton to win.

I don't think their is a tie breaker, so if Massa only gains 6 points above Hamilton, both are co-world champs.

The bigger picture is the constructor championship. If Ferrari ( Massa ) will not be ahead by 7 points close to the finish, keep an eve on Ferrai using " team rules " to take the above championship. If the stars are alligned correctly, Mercedes could win both. Ferrari would of course want both, but if it came down to it, they will want the constructors win. Both Ferrari's out of the points and Mercedes take 1st and 2nd, Mercedes could take a 19 point swing for the manufactors win.

Voxxer


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## 1976Cordoba (Sep 20, 2000)

The tie-breaker in F1 if there is a tie in points is whoever has the most victories is the World Champ.

Points rundown
10
8
6
5
4
3
2
1

Massa needs a Mercedes blow-up. Hamilton has to stay on the tarmac. Should be a good race no matter what, but I am pulling for the red team (card-carrying tifosi member here ).


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## coach61 (Sep 6, 2004)

Hamilton sucks under pressure all Massa has to do is keep a LOT of pressure on him.. hamilton will fold like a house of cards...or Kimi can just bump him off the track..lol


Dave


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

Man, that sucked.


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## afxgns (Jul 6, 2006)

Massa did all he could,
congrats to Lewis for a great drive.
Thanks to all the teams for a great season.


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

There's a brazilian people cryin.


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## SplitPoster (May 16, 2006)

Hamilton did fold under pressure, but Glock couldn't make it trough the last 2 turns, so little Lewis backs into a championship. Glad to see Vettel do so well, and Massa is a rising star too. Wait 'till next year.

One things looks for sure now - Hamilton is good (and maybe McLaren is better), but he is certainly not dominant. Makes for good racing next year. What an incredible finish.


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

"Hey Glock, there's a big McClaren check in it for you if you'll back off and let Hamilton by." - Crew Chief


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## Rastamonn80 (Dec 11, 2008)

Any of you guys build plastic model F1 cars?? I have built the 2005 McLaren and 2005 Ferrari (I forget which race the cars are styled after) I also bought an additional 2005 Ferrari beacuse I had some Kimi decals left from the Mclaren I'm gonna try to implement on the Ferrari.

Also I havent had any luck in finding other F1models in stores or online(granted Ive only done a few online searches) U guys know a good retailer??


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## resinmonger (Mar 5, 2008)

Rastamonn80 said:


> Any of you guys build plastic model F1 cars?? I have built the 2005 McLaren and 2005 Ferrari (I forget which race the cars are styled after) I also bought an additional 2005 Ferrari beacuse I had some Kimi decals left from the Mclaren I'm gonna try to implement on the Ferrari.
> 
> Also I havent had any luck in finding other F1models in stores or online(granted Ive only done a few online searches) U guys know a good retailer??


Plastic F-1 can be had at the sites listed below.

http://www.hobbylinc.com/index.htm

http://www.f1specialties.com/main/index.php


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## Rastamonn80 (Dec 11, 2008)

Cheers for the reply mate!


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