# New AMG Racing Formula Ford Open Wheel



## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

*New AMG Racing Formula Focus (edited) Open Wheel*

OK, now that I'm re-inspired to get back into developing new cars I've decided to work on the next project. Between 50 hour work weeks and race weekends out here I should have time to get this done over the course of about 2 weeks or so. Progess pictures will be posted here.

The new car will be an open wheel mini-formula based car, and like my Outlaw Sprinters it will be a dedicated fit to the Magna-Traction/X-Traction Chassis. This is where you guys (some of you guys at least) come in. I need a couple of rolling chassis, broken p/u tabs are OK, but I need them with a bare gear plate and clamp so the body can be built up on that chassis. I don't have any broken one's of my own, so the first couple of guys wanting to contribute gets first test rights to 5 bodies when production begins. 

The car will be low slung, open cockpit and have an intake scoop that can be opened for cooling. The rear wing will be molded in and the side plates will have optional scribed cut lines. I can promise an extra ordinary amount of attention to detail here. And like Bill wants, lots of compound curves. 

Interested parties with a few chassis to donate contact me at [email protected]. Once the chassis are in hand I'll start "sculpting" this one.


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

No sweat Pete! I'll hook you up. Send your address via Email and you'll have them pronto! 

OT: When you gettin that rim (ankle) straightened? BH


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

OK, been looking through Wikipedia for different junior forumla type cars, and there's a few that would lend well to a slot car body application. Remember, this is a smaller size than the Formula One cars, so the scale may be different (like the go-kart bodies are a different perspective scale). Here's what I've found so far...

Formula Ford (1985)










Formula 3 (early 1990's)










Formula BMW (2006) which I really like.










And Formula Renault Brazil.


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

Bill Hall said:


> No sweat Pete! I'll hook you up. Send your address via Email and you'll have them pronto!
> 
> OT: When you gettin that rim (ankle) straightened? BH


Bill, I think I misplaced your e-mail address....my new one is [email protected], drop me a quick note and I'dd send off my addy. 

I have a surgery consult on March 23rd after one more MRI a week before that. If everything looks the same they'll do the reconstruction the first Thursday in April, and I'll be off my feet for 8 weeks after ward. I think I'm beginning to understand how Johnny Rutherford felt after he broke both his at Phoenix years ago. If only my injury results from something so glamorous...


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

Hi Pete, Got a no can do on the space in your new email addy. Took the space out and got another mailer deamon. Please dispatch a priest to excorcise my deamons.


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## SplitPoster (May 16, 2006)

Hey Pete, top car would be a 2 liter Ford, called a formula continental or formula ford 2000 by most amateur sanctioning bodies in U.S., maybe super fords in other places. If you look up formula ford in U.S. you'll find no wings, 1600cc. Google Formula Atlantic - generally one step below Champ cars. SCCA does a new race car issue in Sportscar for club/pro series cars, maybe April issue. There are also club/driving school series/marque cars. Check out formula Russell, formula/Pro Mazda too. 

If you look at current lower echelon construction you'll see aerodynamics often mirror F1 or champ car - ie high nose....


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

Split, good eye. I just did a search on Wikipedia and started going through the links. I really like the second offering though and may work the BMW's scoop into the design somehow. The thing I have to keep in mind is using the chassis tabs to mount the body, so the narrower the car the better my design would work. 

I debated the wing idea with my race guys, and it took a 6-pack to decide a wing wouldn't hurt, and it may even help. I saw the Formula Fords didn't have any sort of "aerodynamic fixtures" and shyed away from that for now. 

Bill, just send the chassis to my shop at:

P. McKay
Armadillo Motorworks and Graphics (AMG)
555 South Argyle #219
Fresno, CA. 93727


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## SplitPoster (May 16, 2006)

Pete, they're all good. Wings have the same benefits & drawbacks on 1:1, except there are a lot more dollars involved in repairing/replacing them.

A few interesting links for winged club/pro cars in U.S.: 
www.swiftengineering.com
www.starmazda.com 
www.sccaenterprises.com
www.cooperseries.com


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

One of the guys made the remark of making a sort of vintage open wheeler with an open engine bay and a nice inline 4 being exposed. That's easy enough to model using sheet plastic and thick solder for the exhaust. But we race long races out here and an functional intake is really appealing. The design I have is pretty close to the BMW design now even though it HAS to be Ford powered. Hey, what about a Formula Focus??


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## SplitPoster (May 16, 2006)

*Ford pictures*

Formula Ford 2000 (cooper/Avon tire series, link above) is Zetec powered, note spec air intake is off to the side.










1600cc Formula Fords (pushrod engines) differ greatly with aerodynamics, intake style and location, rear tray, but body style would adapt to slim slot chassis well. 




















Hope you get that Ford thing worked out


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

The air intake would be tricky to vacuform since you have to pull the mold straight out of the body. Also anytime you roll hot plastic under itself like that it tends to fold. Still, I like that FF2000 shape and might be able to simulate something close. The bi-level wing would be the problem unless I did something like I did with the Odyssey, have the lower foil and supports molded in the body buck and you just add the top foil to those supports. Once I get the chassis that they'll be built up on and get them boxed in I'll look and see if that's possible, or maybe just go 1600 Formula style. I have to admit, the middle body style is growing on me a little.


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## SplitPoster (May 16, 2006)

Pete, I like the high nose too, lots of variety in body styles chassis to chassis. There is a gallery on SCCA.com, under multmedia - club (racing), with several FFord pictures. Nice thing about FF, there is no spec body or wing, so anything you do is accurate! Jeff


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## coach61 (Sep 6, 2004)

Pete I sent you a package of chassis this morning, looking forward to seeing the new car built. If you have one with snapped front wings and tire hanging off I can recreate my Spinard/David Driving school experiance lol...


Dave


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

Coach, thanks. I have a regatta to ready for the first weekend in March but I'll get working on it as soon as spare time allows during this coming week. 

I've really looked at both the 1600 and 2000's and can see an application towards both if I work the design right. With the 1600 pointed nose and tail there's no place really to have a wing, but what, pray tell, if there was a small mounting area for a wing optionally (ala Odyssey)? With the front wings dropped in the 2000 you could simply snip them off the the 1600 application, leave them on for the 2000 application. In the first and second pic's Split posed the body shape is essentially the same, so a dual class application may be possible. 

What would be really cool is to see a set of skinny T-jet wheels and silicone tires on an XT with the 1600 body, and some wider meats on the 2000.


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## SplitPoster (May 16, 2006)

*2 Formula Fords for the Price of one...*

_What would be really cool is to see a set of skinny T-jet wheels and silicone tires on an XT with the 1600 body, and some wider meats on the 2000._

Very cool idea, two different classes from the same basic mold! Could a separate attachable F/C rear wing be far behind? :thumbsup:


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

OK then, I'll revise my drawings once more and include the wing option. All I need is the chassis and a few days to hack one out.


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

Should be there monday!


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

Thanks Bill.

Looks like my regatta may be rained out this weekend, I may be remodeling my sprinter earlier than expected. So I basically drilled a hole in my finger for nothing. Well, it's never a good project unless blood gets spilled.


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

Ouch! I hate that. Lemme guess, drillin' some plastic, you broke through the other side, and the plastic climbed the drill flutes faster than you could move your "fingie" outta' the way.  

I just did my drivin finger a while ago. Not my slot finger. You know the one that goes out the window! :thumbsup:


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

I was drilling a hole for a threaded 2-56 bilge drain in the bow of Southern Cross and yes, broke through the ABS and into my finger. Thank God it was only a pin vise and not a power drill.


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

I've often considered buying stock in Neo-sporin and Band-Aide. I also really like Liquid Skin for major hydraulic leaks caused by exacto blades. LOL


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

Bill, I got your two chassis today, I'm going to begin blocking one of them in for a build up tonight. Um...Bill, broken chassis would have been OK, but these are better than some of the ones I'm racing now...and silicones to boot! All I needed was an ugly roller, you sent me a cherry build up car, if this it your junk yard just charge me $5.00 for a walk through now. But anyway...

I've looked at a huge amount of research, what you guys have posted, what has been suggested to me from the outside and what what I found myself. Originally I labled this a Formula Ford project. I'm a Ford guy, I sell them, I drive them. This car will have pointed ends like the 1600 does and will have available/optional wings like the 2000 does. It won't look like either but it may look like both.

Now making any open wheeler with sleek rounded shapes from a boxy square chassis is difficult. Don't expect a miracle, but expect something plesantly shaped and definatly race ready. This string will now transition from the research and suggestion phase to the build phase. If you're a scratch builder then my techniques will be familiar to you, if you're not, htis is but one method to build a scratch build, original concept Formula Focus open wheel car for a dedicated Magna-Traction/X-Traction application. 

Here goes nothing...the building begins tonight.


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

*Thats Good News*

Like any good junkyard operator I'll just weigh you in and weigh you out!  

Pete, I usually build up groups of chassis as I aquire them and keep them together till needed. A murderer's row of sorts. I'm constantly debuilbing and rebuilding for specific projects. I classify my stuff as: collector, runner, and donor. Most times I have at least a dozen T-jet, and AFX running assemblies in the batters box. 

I felt that good chassis' would be in order for a nice trouble free start on your new endeavor. I wouldnt want to be the cause of wasted time and effort, or a cockeyed prototype. I sent both the high and low profile silicone so you'd have two seperate setups. That way you wouldnt have to fidget with them and get straight to work.

For the record let's not forget the pile of new shells you gifted me. So think nothing of it. I owed you! When your done with those chassis, see that they go to someone deserving. It was my pleasure. 

Bill


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

*X-Acto's, gap filling super glue, 5 minute epoxy....*

OK, I started building the FF late last night, the first thing I did was box in the chassis. What this does is actually give me a building surface to put other plastic on top of. It also dictates the general shape of the body. Forgive the darkness of the pics; these were taken before dawn this morning.










This shows how narrow I tried to get with this car. The body tab mounting bumps are already in place as well. So far this is just 10 pieces of plastic covering about 3 square inches.

Then the nose profile was added. I often use a one piece nose and fill the piece with epoxy. After it hardens I wet sand it, and more often than now will sand through the .015 plastic sheeting used to initially form the nose. This was the case here. 










The raised/chisled nose is already present here; the wings will be dropped below the nose. Also is the second revision of the tail, the first one was savagely ripped off and redone. 










Side view shows the nose profile, again, the wings will rest in the notch below the nose. There will be a small addition to the tail for addition of a rear wing that will look like an oil cooler on the 1600. 










The high angle shot shows the general layout so far. It's actually a nice shape so far, the wings, cowling and side pods are still absent. I'm still looking at cowlings, I want a ducted cowl but the drivers head is right over the armature shaft, the only way to duct it now is through the side pods, which is where I may go. So should I still go with a small ducted style cowling or just rounded behind the drivers head? Maybe rounded with a small intake scoop on the right side. By the way this is just 17 pieces of plastic covering just over 4 square inches so far.

I have the day off today, if things go right today conceivably I could finish it today. If not it will be done tomorrow for sure. On Friday I'll order some plastic to make a few testers and send them off to Bill for his review.


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

*Hey Pete, You Tazmanian Devil*

Your a styrene shreddin' animal. This design looks excellent. The last top view pic shows that AFX/MAG/XTRAC chassis is not as bullbous and boxy as we all may have thought. She looks snug as a bug in a rug.

I call that overall shape the "reverse hourglass". It looks fantastic! You're obviously in the groove on this one. 

The double wing is going to be interesting and I cant wait to see your solution in 3-D. I'll be dialing in both a mag and nonmag chassis tonight, in giddy anticipation.

Bill


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

After a short nap and a grilled cheese sandwhich I went back to work.

The side pods sit below the mounting tabs, the bottom of the tabs will rest on the top of the pods, it should make a pretty good mount. The front wings aren't done in this picture, the side plates are still needed but it gives the overall shape and location. Like my original design on paper, the wings sit below the nose in the even to driver wants them removed. Although at this time I can't see anyone wanting to run sans wing.



















This wing is a generic style F1 wing that I slapped together and stuck on the back of the car to see where to put the mount. I'm leaning to a single post like I did on the Odyssey, but a little wider since the footprint would need to hold a pretty decent sized wing. I may try a two post design too, but the wing will be a seperate piece for you guys to switch from a road course to an oval wing. The other part is making it to be disguised if you wish to run without a wing on the back. Maybe like a strake coming off the back of the cowling or something.










The cowling is still being worked on, there will be a noticable bulge on the right side to facilitate an intake manifold. The scoop is small and I still have to work up a roll hoop for my 6mm airsoft BB drivers head. 










So far this is only about 5 hours work, and I lost count of how many plastic pieces. It's a long way from being done to my satisfaction but it's a good place to work from. The wheels and tires it rides on now are the type I run on my sprinters, and it looks good on thicker meats.

***Edit-Martin suggested that the rear wing mount to the sides of the tail cone instead off of a support mast. While this is a good idea for the type of wign shown here a speedway wing has less side plate area and it may not work. The research continues...***


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

Fan-bloody-tastic


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

I think this is about as good as it's going to get. I'm not happy with a few things but overall it came out pretty good. I still haven't put the front wing end plates on yet and I have a couple of more minutes of wet sanding to do, but essentially here it is.

I tried on different wing shapes and sizes. I went as wide as the rear tires in both road course and speedway, and the wing design you see here is about the best looking. Functional, that could be a different story. I kept the pitch pretty neutral on both the front and rear wing set ups, that could change. When I was testing the Odyssey I had run almost a full race with just one side of the wing mount attached. It held very well, and although it was a much smaller wing than is on the FF, I think this one single mount will be enough to hold a wing. The top will be triangular and be about the same area as both mounts on the Odyssey. Only practice will tell.

The really ugly part is the rear end. There's no way around it, it's just plain unattractive. But it's functional and its purpose and until I can figure a better way to do it, this is it. The side pods may be a problem once it's vacuformed, and there's a few bugs I'm sure I'll have to work out after the first few cars are drawn. At certain angles this is a nice looking car, at others it's ungainly looking and just an eyesore. Changes can be made but would the changes be ugly too? Anyway, I don't think it'll be a big seller, here it is.


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

Sure looks great Pete. I agree the butt is a little weird. Have you considered more of a peak down center longitudinally coming off the rear wing support, and maybe a skoshe more length to flatten the acute angle from the rearmost portion up to the deck height. By creating an optical illusion of it dropping down and away from a center point and stretching it a coulple mm you may trick your eye into liking it. By blending a subtle crown as the body work fades from the wing support it might appear optically lower when combined and viewed with the overall support height in total.


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

I can try. If I screw it up I can always rip it off and do it over. Maybe not add length but remove width. I wish I had moved the cockpit foward a little as well but that's more of a rebuild than I wanted to deal with.


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## SplitPoster (May 16, 2006)

What a tremendous piece of work. Wow.


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

I studied the pics a little closer after dinner. I had the day from hell in 1:1 land today. Now that I've got my boots off, I'll throw in two more cents.

The wing support seems centered but I think the intake cowling is askew as it moves rearward. The rear wing appears to be sitting left abit when you sight down the front or view from above. 

I'm not adept at the entire process. Is this something that you correct when you perform the finish work on the buck? Save for a few adjustments I think you should be pleased. It really looks great coming at you. The 3/4 forward view from slightly above really shows off the nice lines you've sculpted. That's really the angle that counts as it is both the racing and viewing angle as they scoot down the track.


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

Bill there's a bulge on the left side of the cowling....there WAS a bulge on the left side, it has been removed but will be replaced near the finish. Some of the pieces used to make the cowling were asymetrical as well. Here's a before and after of the cowl to wing mount now.



















I also dremeled out the little dudes head and moved the cockpit are forward 6mm, built in the hoop bar and extended the intake forward. the front wings have the plates on them now, and yes I know they're angled inward 5 degrees. 

The problem with some of the views is that I've sanded through the plastic sheeting into the epoxy filler in quite a few cases, and that gives an oddball look. After the sanding tonight/tomorrow I'll shoot a coat of sandable gray to see where the rough spots still are. I'm to the sanding and shaping stage now, this is where the most time is consumed.


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

Here's the updated tail one last time. I like this shape better and other than beefing up the wing mount all of the construction is done.



















At this point it's priming, filling and sanding. This is the most time consuming part of making a buck mold. It has to be pretty smooth, any small artifact will show up on the .007 PETG when bodies are drawn. There's a lot of small pits to be filled especially in the areas where the epoxy and CA filler has been exposed. Going from designer to paint and body man is just part of the process.


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

Excuse me being dumb, but could someone who does resins pop bodies off that buck?


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

Mornin' Pete, I'll quote Wes NJ here, "Woooooeeee!" 

That rear treatment was exactly what I was trying describe. That's waaaaaay better!
Dontcha' think? 

I marvel at how you work with such thin stock and sculpt, shape and sand without killing it. Although it's not your thing/niche, and I'm not trying to make more work for you, but Dean has a point; you should be modeling masters for the resin crowd as well!

This is so great to watch along. I know it's time consuming but at somepoint I'd like to hear more about your tricks and techniques in general from purely a modeling perspective

Bill.


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

Bill, I was a member of the IPMS for more than 30 years as a plastic modeler. I have something like 300 trophies, plaques and ribbons scattered in boxes all over my garage from contests since I was a kid. I mainly did cars and usually did serious conversions of street cars into race cars. I quit going to contests a few years ago but I still have some of my award winners I'll have to post pics of over in the model secion of the board someday.

In 1:1 racing I was always the fabricator, the bender as they say. I learned fiberglass working as a kid and did Corvette and boat repair with my brother while in HS. That sort of spilled over into the modeling, and now into slot cars. I have to say that this open wheel car has really tried my skill and patience though, I was so out of practice at a few of the things I've been trying I'm suprised I haven't completely screwed it up.

As far as resin casting, I'm going to order a book on how to do it soon. I have a good source of dental RTV to make molds with, I just need to learn how to get everything together. Vacuforming is a piece of cake I'm sure, compared to throwing resin slurry. Martin calls me a Plastic Surgeon because I do some really weird things sometimes. Next time he's on the board I'll have him tell you about my Oscar Meyer Weiner open comp car. Anyway, lunch is over and I need to get my butt back on the lot, the blond has been looking at that black Fusion for more than 10 minutes and nobody has hooked her yet. I'm off.


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## Slott V (Feb 3, 2005)

Hey Pete,
I heard you made these bodies back in the day also;









:freak: :tongue: :tongue: Ha just kidding. Just had to toss that in here.  

Great background story. Your work is awesome. Can't wait to see some of it on my track! (check coming soon) :thumbsup:


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

ROFL!!!! Wow, those are interesting, I'll have to get my book out and see if I can figure out what they were. I've done some model car bodies before but nothing bigger than 10" long and 5" wide. I have done 1/32 and 1/24 scale but I don't have a track for those cars now. The last large scale thing I did was a radio tray for an R/C Hyroplane a friend had, I bascially put his servos and receiver on my vacuformer and drew them that way. My AMYA US1M sailboat has the same sort of set up in it, vacuformed to keep the radio out of the wet bilge of the boat.

I sold the blond BTW, not the Fusion but a new Focus.


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## Martin Simone (Feb 21, 2007)

There's three projects I'd like to see done that are already on paper;

1. The racing riding lawnmower with driver. It's possible with a 1:35th scale military figure, I mean, there's go-karts, why not a racing lawnmower. And it's perfect for the MT/XT chassis.

2. The Project ST short track open wheel car. When I first saw the boxed in pics I thought that's what was being made. P-ST is a short wheelbase open wheel unwinged open cockpit car similar to the Lotus Indy Turbine Wedge of the 1960's. Bascially a wedge with a cockpit, very simple and very slick.

3. The VW dune buggy was pretty cool too, for those with long winding road courses and elevation changes so they can have SCORE type events. 

What you guys don't get to see are all the half finished, hacked up, hammered things that come across his bench that make you scratch your head. Like the currently in production DIRT II Late Model. This car is designed to be aerodynamic going both forward AND sideways. The top is slanted down on the right side so that the window height is half of that on the left. The front end is wider then the rest of the body just like on the real cars, and it's just slick looking. 

Oh yeah, and if I get my say Petey, leave your sprinters alone. If you want modern, buy bodies from Zig, we (me, Terry, Mark and others) like the current style. And the new Formula whatever does look really good.

Martin.


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

You had to bring up that lawn mower again, didn't you.


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

Who wouldn't want to race one of these bad babys on an XT chassis....

It's back on the official project list.


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

*Post Script.*

Got the plastic today, drew down 12 cars, 2 of which were immediate rejects, another 2 were problematic. Of the 8, 4 of them were "reverse modled". That means I flipped the rack so that the cars are especially crisp. Those 4 will be heading to Washington in about a week once payday rolls around and I can afford postage.

In the mean time here's Bill's production tester:



















There's a couple of things that need immediate correction on the mold. Virtual every body has a spiderweb crease on just the left front wing horizontal panel. I have no idea why, nothing in the buck indicates a crease would form. Secondly, and this is important Bill, the locators for the body tab cuts outs are entirely in the wrong place. When you cut your bodies pay attention to where I cut the STP car. I will be correcting a couple of things before I draw anymore. 

I'm going to also reduce the height of the nose wing end plates. I think that may be where the problem with the crease is coming from. The body tab locators will also be moved to the correct locations. 

Fit is pretty nice once you cut it in the right place. I ruined one of my keepers with the tab locators being wrong, but it was good enough to run a few laps before falling off. I haven't done crash testing yet, I need to paint one for myself and that may be a day or two before I get around to it. I have 3 more of the original draw to make myself some. 

Over the next week I'll make the changes and once I'm satisfied I'm going to draw 25 good bodies to be offered for sale. After those 25 are done the body is going to be radically altered; the rear wing will be modled into place instead of being mounted on a post like it is now. That will be the production body from then on.

I plan to do the same thing with the Odyssey as well. There will be some restyling done after 25 bodies are drawn, the wing will be molded in and it will receive a intake scoop across the top much like the old Porsche 962's had. I won't be doing anymore seperate wing cars, the whole reason was for the possibility of an aerodynamic advantage. Since there seems to be none, there's no reason to continue with the current design.

Hobby Talk has recently taken measures to remove what I consider a very offensive member. While I feel this should have been done a lot sooner I do appreciate their actions in this matter. I will continue to post projects on the board in the future so long as everyone is constructive in their comments. I can take good advice on a bad design; I won't tolerate being labled a scammer for trying to cut someone some slack and sell them my old molds and vacuformer.


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## txronharris (Jun 1, 2005)

That's one hot looking model. Thanks for sharing the process. Looking forward to them being available!


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

Yooooo Betcha Pete! Pretty incredible to think that bod is sittin' on a basket handle chassis. I know your not done yet, but thats some damn nice work. Cant wait!

BH


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

AMG Eagle testing today, both on my old oval and on Martin's scale 1/2 mile flat track. Using my mid 70's A/FX Magna-Traction with a mean green, polymer magnets and hi-pro brushes. This car rides on AJ's spun aluminum wheels. This is the same car I set a track record of 1.338 seconds with as a winged Outlaw Sprint Car on Martin's egg shaped oval. 

With the silicone tires Bill sent on the build up chassis I had to trim a few areas where it was dragging, but once trimmed and with clean tires I rattled off several laps below that track record. The best was a 1.222, Martin took the controller and squeezed off a really nice straight 1.209. The body was a very nice fit on the car, not a floater like the sprinters are. 




























This shows to good example how low this car sits on the chassis. The rear wing is very neutral but the side plates seem to help keep it straight in the wide sweepers. Hopefully tomorrow I'll be able to do some road coruse testing. So far only a couple of medium speed crashes, no wing problems yet.


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

Those clod hopper .490's look pretty good on there Pete I am surprised. Were they to big in diameter, hopefully note to wide? I think most guys will want to run something a bit wider.

Sounds like some even lap times between you guys. The bod really looks great!

Bill


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

Diameter was good, they could stand to have been a little wider as they walked to the inside lip of the rim after about a lap and a half. With a polymer car they worked great, I have a zapped and a stock magnet car I'll try it on tomorrow. I got out some old magazines to see if I can find a good white base paint scheme. I'm thinking Olsonite Eagle myself. Martin Nextel'd me a few minutes ago to tell me he went under 1.2. He didn't tell me what it was but said he polished the comm and applied some of his special silicone lube to the gearing. Under 1.2 is close to stock G-Plus time on that track.


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

Box is on it's way Bill. should be there Saturday or Monday. Post when it arrives if you would. The Eagle is proving to be a nice car, I now have 6 in the paintshop and after I complete the changes to the buck today I'm going to do a few more. I discovered the problem with the front wing crease was the angle of the endplate and fixed that, and the locater tabs will be fixed today as well. Not too many changes for a car that looks to be pretty popular, at least locally. Make sure Mr. Beedle see's it if you get the chance.


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## mking (Apr 25, 2000)

hey pete, if you send one to marty (or me!) he can show it to gary at the HOPAC race in April. in fact, if your ready to sell any (esp already painted), i will race one at the April HOPAC race.

btw, bill showed up at marty's last sat, and i was really impressed with the odessey. are you taking orders yet?

regards
mike


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

Pete, lets get Mike hooked up. He runs with the big dogs. I'm just a newbie wall flower on the local circuit. They're gonna real me in eventually, but my 1:1 resto obligations are gonna be stacked up until fall. Darn day jobs any way! 

Time permitting I'll tag along to Portland with their crew. If the nit gets in the grit, I'll paint whatever Mike wants done. Lets just get your product out there!

Being as how you've comped me on so many items; I made sure to spread the wealth that everybody who inquired got some finished or unfinished shells. All except the Supra GT which I greedily sequestered. Larry from Yakima had his eye on the Supra so he'll get his from the next batch. Unfortunatly I didnt have enough Oddy bods for everyone.


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

Mike, I will be shorty. When I announced a design change I had my cell phone ringing off the hook. I think I'll leave it alone. Martin, AJ and I had the day off today and actually had 4 Eagles on the track running at the same time. Martins track has a long straight that clamps down to a 6" inside radius and a 9" outside radius and it was mayhem on the start... Yes, you can knock a rear wing off the car but it was the paint that failed. After regluing the wings on the cars that lost them we haven't lost them again. And we tend to use the bump and run quite a bit with these cars. That reminds me, I need to do a Kevin Cogan car. 










Martin's yellow car was originally a Pennzoil car but then he clear coated the decals he said they disolved. It's now a Kendall GT-1 car. The Pepsi car belongs to my brother-in-law who is a Gordon fan (there's always one). I have a Lowe's car in the paintshop and a really nice purple sort of colored car that hasn't found a sponsor yet.

Bill, I sent you 3 more Odyssey's plus the Martini car, you got 4 DIRT LM's, 4 Supers, 4 Sprinters, I sent you at least 4 good Eagles plus a couple of bad one's for practice, and 4 of the Supra's. I also sent you My HORSA DIRT car in the Rusty Wallace Miller scheme....never raced because I never qualified. Pass along whatever you like, when you have a need let me know. And the Pintos. 

Mike, email me your address, I have plastic for a dozen more cars on my desk and I'll see if I can draw a few over the weekend to send your way. I need to reorder but I have to wait until Tuesday (payday). I'll make sure you get a good sample batch. I pretty much such at painting but I'm a wiz with decals. I have some on my parts order, once I get that I'll do you up a couple in colors.


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## martybauer31 (Jan 27, 2004)

Bill, remember your new buddy Marty when you are staring at that Martini body.....

Pete, beautiful stuff as always. I spread the love at my last little get together and Bill now has the majority of the spring and outlaw cars you sent me, I did however have to hang onto the Pinto and the AMG. Thanks again.

:wave:


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

Tell me what's on your lists. Here's what I have the molds for:

Outlaw Sprinter (AFX/XT)
Super Modified (AFX/XT)
'90 Supra Sports Car (Bill's favorite)
DIRT Late Model 
Odyssey LMS
Open Wheel Eagle (AFX/XT)
1970 Ford Pinto Mini-Stock

I'll place an order with Tower on Tuesday, I can get 12 cars per package of plastic sheets, figure 1 car per pack for waste. Count your customers who may be interested and see if we can get a total so I'll know what I need.


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## Martin Simone (Feb 21, 2007)

For the record:

Pete _ran into me_, it wasn't a bump in run, it was more like a smash and a dash. My wing came off, my car turned sideways and AJ ran into me causing his car to deslot and hit the wall, causing his wing to come off. Ray just ran over our wings and chased Pete down and stuck him in the wall in turn 4.

But he's right, once you reglue the wings they don't come off. The paint failed to stick to the PETG and they just popped off. In our defense we didn't scuff the surface and non-rc paints were used. I will be using the good 'ol silicone adhesive on my subsequent bodies. The side pods work well as nerf bars, wheel to wheel contact does happen but this keeps it to a minimum.

The first thing you'll notice is a different sound to the cars; the bodies fit snugly and make for a sort of sound expansion chamber, giving polymer cars a very throaty sound to them. We have been running a wing with a cord (front to back) about the same as the length (front to back) as the rear tires, and as wide as the inside bead of the rear wheel. There is no pitch to the rear wing, something I'm trying to get Pete to fix for all future draws. Nothing radical, 5 degrees will do, just a little traction help on long straights. 

All in all a really nice looking car and it does handle. I've run some sub-1.2's on my track with it already, once I have some wing pitch it may drop more.

Martin~


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

*Sorry 'bout your luck, snoozer*



martybauer31 said:


> Bill, remember your new buddy Marty when you are staring at that Martini body.....
> 
> Pete, beautiful stuff as always. I spread the love at my last little get together and Bill now has the majority of the spring and outlaw cars you sent me, I did however have to hang onto the Pinto and the AMG. Thanks again.
> 
> :wave:


Ha Ha Marty, Where were you? The gang cleaned me out when you were busy being a good host. Cant turn your back on us for a minute. Didnt you notice the empty box when you cleaned up? Nuthin' left but dust. I had to stonewall just to get away with the Supra and 1 Nascar. Thought I was gonna have to wrestle Larry.  Swarm of locusts they are! I think it happened when you called for pizza. I'll gladly send you what you need from my up coming order. :thumbsup: 

I think an open wheeled G-jet scenario like you spoke of would be fun/mayhem. Hopefully the new bod can be crammed on a G-jet somehow.


Bill


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## martybauer31 (Jan 27, 2004)

I think the riding lawnmower would be PERFECT for an open wheeled G-Jet race. Who doesn't want to mow someone for coming out and into their lane? 

As for the thievery at my race, sorry they cleaned you out bud, you have to pin down everything that is dear to you.  You'll have to remember that next time and bring an empty box to fill for yourself. LOL

Pete, it was ridiculous, I gave poor Bill those bodies and they all got pilfered, a truly sad tale of a new guy getting taken advantage of.


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

Well, he'll have first pick of what's on it's way now.

About the lawn mower. That's one of those nightmare projects, I have the 1/35th scale military figure I was going to use for the driver, it would have to be vacuformed because of the height to be sure, and I'm worried about pulling plastic that far and not having it thin out too much. I'd love to do a G-Jet body but as for just about all my projects I'd need a rolling chassis to get it right. I plan on gettinga G-Jet or two myself someday, right now money is just way too tight. We took a hard hit with the freeze, money that would normally be carrying us through right now. I've been off work for 2 weeks and state disability hasn't kicked in yet, neither has AFLAC. It's mac and cheese for lunch lately even with selling old race car parts. Things will change next week.

BTW, my new project will be announced later tonight, and Martin got his 5 degree wing angle on the mold, it'll be part of all bodies made from now on.


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## mking (Apr 25, 2000)

*hey pete*

the g-jet and G-3 all share the same chassis

i only have one G-jet, but i just ordered some G3 chassis to swap parts with from a broken super G.

id be happy to send you a g3 chassis. it will just take me an evening to build one from the super G parts.

regards
mike


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

Sure, that sounds good. you guys would need to decide what you wanted; an open wheel or a sports car. I'm pretty much a custom designer at this point. I just announced the Corvette project so let me get that started and I'll start drawing something up for that chassis based on feedback.


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

Hi Pete, The t-jets for the kids are on their way. I sent seven. Actually I made my wife send them.  

Nuthin fancy per your spec. I ran through them real quick. There is one fleabay cull that could use a quick trip through some easy off and a tarnex dunking due to some sloppy painting by the previous owner. It was a recent arrival and didnt get through my usual process. There are a couple in the lot with some potential and a few dogs too.

I'm SOL on guide pins and lil' silicones. My apologies. Ya caught me in between. As to chassis square; I dunno, you might have to adjust tire size if necessary.

I'm running old school lock and joiner (high rail) so the pick ups will require some fiddling. Some were a little noisey/draggy and could stand a tweak. 

There were also a couple that were a little tight and may benifit from further investigation. The black stuff is automotive cam lube that I use on the arm shafts and axles. I like it cuz it just keeps getting better as things get hotter. It also doesnt sling quite as bad, and seem to store better when not in use. So they may seem a little grumpy at first when they're cold, but will wake right up. 

Good luck on the "500", sounds like good fun!


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

Thanks Bill, I think I can get the Eagle to fit a T-Jet chassis, if not I have a mess of Cobra Clips that I can throw some Pinto bodies on them and let them just smack each other around with them. Tuning is good, these guys are age 10 through 14 and they're all mildly developmentally disabled. This will make them think and work on problem solving skills. They aren't lacking in patience so they have that over us adults.

The Littlest 500 is going to be run at the Boys and Girls club here in town on the Monday of the Memorial Day weekend, right after the real 500 is run. I have a trophy package already donated and two sponsors for refreshments. If I have 50 entries at $5 a pop that's $250, $100 of which immediately goes to the club. $50 is going to be needed to produce the bodies and the give-a-way car will cost close to another $50 to build. I have some hats being made for the 11 guys that go to the mains, and one special one for the winner. I won't be racing by the way, I've found it too hard to both promote and compete in an event this size.


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

Your very welcome Pete! 

Your a class act.

I wish I had half your energy.

Looking forward to some "500" pics and race results. 

BH


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

We will have a race on the big oval at Martins in a few days. Right now there's a war going on between the old Eagles and the new 5 degree Eagles, we had a 50 lap feature on the banks tonight and it was neck and neck for most of it. On the flat track the 5 degree's have the downforce advantage and did a little better, either that or that slight wing angle was a good psyche advantage. AJ likes the flat wing, I have both and can't really tell the differnece. Martin says the angled wing is more solid on the straights and recovers quicker from drifting in the corners.


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