# I hope Walthers did not pay much for those Nascar licenses



## Jim Norton (Jun 29, 2007)

I was just looking at the Walthers slot cars when it hit me......I bet they paid way more to license the cars than its now worth!

Nascar is a dud! Let me say that again.....Nascar is a dud!

I have never seen anything as boring and unexciting as a recent Nascar race. Its like watching a football game week after week where neither team scores.

Thats what happens when you take a motorsport and try and turn it into a show/parade. Yawn................................

Jim Norton
Huntsville, Alabama


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## TK Solver (Mar 18, 2004)

Fortunately, ABC saw the light and switched you over to America's Funniest Home Videos before the end so you could watch a monkey scratch himself instead.


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## Pomfish (Oct 25, 2003)

Well, it's only gonna get better

Dodge is trying to get GM (who is 2 breath's away from being bankrupt) to buy them, Ford has about 5 breaths left and sponsors don't know if they will be in business this time next year.

So, yeah NA$CRAP is looking real good these days.
I stopped even recording the races after like week 3 and really could care less.

I look forward to them not being able to fill a 43 car field.
As the saying goes "They left me, I didn't leave them"

They should just scrap all the bogus rules and go back to Dirt, Run Watcha Brung and price the seats so a Working Man can afford to take his family and they would fill the stands.

Thanks for the Rant,
Keith


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## 1976Cordoba (Sep 20, 2000)

You know something is wrong when it takes $25 - $30 million to run a stock car team.

Not F1.

Not Indy cars.

Not sports cars.

. . . _stock cars_ . . . 

That is just messed up right there.

The greed has ruined NASCAR racing. It is now a 'marketing machine' instead of a racing sanctioning body.

Ughhh -- don't even wanna go further down that road tonight. NASCAR has lost many of its long-time fans, and I am among them.


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

Pomfish said:


> ...and price the seats so a Working Man can afford to take his family and they would fill the stands.


Man ain't that the truth. Living a hour from Pocono, I thought it'd be cool this year to to actually take the wife and kids to a Nascar race for once....damn near fell over when I saw how much it woulda cost.


'course it's all the "entertainment" crap anymore. Wanted to go see AC/DC a couple weeks back..._$92 a ticket_! :freak:


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

Sorry to say it, but NASCAR isn't really about the racing anymore. It's all about The Show. Celebrity drivers, mass marketing, memorabilia, licensing, product placement, endorsements, and huge TV contracts. Yep, it's fallen into the same rut as every other popular "sporting" event. I guess you could see that as the downside of its tremendous success.

On the other hand, whether or not you like The NASCAR Show, it continues to draw plenty of fans and generate revenue. It has a huge upside. My nephew really loves NASCAR and it brings a lot of joy to his life. That makes me feel pretty good. His love of NASCAR and our shared interest in slot cars gives us something fun to talk about and brings us closer together on and off the slot car track. That is a very cool thing.

I really appreciate the fine job that Walthers has done to bring quality NASCAR related slot car products to the HO slot car market. They are definitely filling a need and doing so in a way that reflects their commitment to the HO slot car hobby and satisfying the legions of NASCAR racing fans.

I wish Walthers and NASCAR continued success and prosperity with their relationship.


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## noddaz (Aug 6, 1999)

*But you mis-understand*

NASCAR is no longer about racing. And hasn't been in quite a while.


NASCAR
 is
*Entertainment*​
Go on home son, nothing to see here... :lol:

Funny thing, I have been involved in a NASCAR pool at work for a couple of years now. But I probably haven't watched 15 minutes of NASCAR racing in the past 2 years.​


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

I watch Napcar. Every Sunday, after a big meal, or cookout with the family, I flip it on and freakin tune out. Fox/NBC/ABC, it doesn't matter who's covering it, when you dont have much of a show you just cant make it exciting, no matter how much you yell. All the graphics try to disguise the boredom, but it doesn't work. I sleep so hard my wife makes me keep a towel on the pillow so my drool doesnt ruin the couch. I tell you what, I wish they had a race on Thanksgiving. Napcar is the only thing that makes me sleep harder than the Cowgirls.

Rich


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## resinmonger (Mar 5, 2008)

*And now for something completely different...*

You say you want good racing? You want to take the whole family and not take out a second mortgage? Wana see multiple races in one weekend? See the link below.

http://www.americanlemans.com/home/ALMSHome.aspx

The fields may not have a gazillion cars but the dudes do race.
It's almost as good as running tycos!


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## ScottD961 (Jan 31, 2008)

I can't understand how three auto makers who are bankrupt are fielding "stock Cars" I thought they had no money !


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

Do they race in Dallas? No? I would go if I was closer. By the way, that link doesnt work for me. It's kinda opposite from Napcar, where thier website is better than thier races.

In the mean time, support your local drag strip or dirt track!

Rich


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## afxgns (Jul 6, 2006)

SwamperGene said:


> Man ain't that the truth. Living a hour from Pocono, I thought it'd be cool this year to to actually take the wife and kids to a Nascar race for once....damn near fell over when I saw how much it woulda cost.
> 
> 
> 'course it's all the "entertainment" crap anymore. Wanted to go see AC/DC a couple weeks back..._$92 a ticket_! :freak:



Two weeks ago I went to see Metallica, The ticks were $65 +$30 for handling from ticketmaster.:woohoo:
I know the ticks are a sore subject, but try to go to a football game or worse yet, an MLB game. It's stupid.

I went to the brickyard for eight years and was paying $65-$80 per seat and finally gave up on that. I agree that the nasfarce thing is out of hand. But you need to admit that the entire ticket thing has way too many people taking their cut.


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## grungerockjeepe (Jan 8, 2007)

Ive got a few issues with NASCAR myself, outside of the fact that its overrated and overpriced:


All left turns. Lame.

******* following. I grew up in TN, so trust me on this one.


The #1 reason why NASCAR sucks:
The cars themselves blow. No matter how fast they go, when you cross the finish line youre still driving a camry, fusion etc. Lame midsize sedan. Why do I want to watch someone race cars I could care less about owning?


SCCA is racing. REAL racing. Whether youre a rich guy with full sponsorship and a spankin fresh ACR viper, or just some dude with a tweaked up VW gti, There's a class for you. You can go and flog your junk on the track, have fun and grin ear to ear. Thats what real racing is.

Oh and cant wait till the new Trans-Am series comes out with the Challenger, Mustang, and Camaro. Its called something else but thats beside the point. Twisty tracks and cars I want to drive. Now Ill watch that.


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

I've long been an advocate of take it off the showroom floor, weld a roll cage into it and take all the glass out. Then race it. There are only two parts of a NASCAR car that are the same as that of a showroom car. If it's FWD, then the car on the track should be too. Remember the Audi Quattro's in SCCA in the mid 1980's? Production based and they kicked the butts of the tube frame cars. The threw weight at them, did other things to slow them down, finally outlawed them. Let's get back to the production based stock car, and leave the show for the WWE.


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## Tycoarm (Jan 7, 2006)

grungerockjeepe said:


> SCCA is racing. REAL racing. Whether youre a rich guy with full sponsorship and a spankin fresh ACR viper, or just some dude with a tweaked up VW gti, There's a class for you. You can go and flog your junk on the track, have fun and grin ear to ear. Thats what real racing is.
> 
> Oh and cant wait till the new Trans-Am series comes out with the Challenger, Mustang, and Camaro. Its called something else but thats beside the point. Twisty tracks and cars I want to drive. Now Ill watch that.


Don't forget the touring cars and F1. I lost interest in Nascar when it became too corporate, changing rules midway through the season and with the new race for the cup crap.
Also who has time to sit in front of a tv when it's 80 degrees plus sunny and beautiful on a Sunday afternoon.

Then again most sports are pushing the average family from attending to only be spectators in front of a tv. With major million dollar salaries to players, ridiculous ticket,parking,consession prices.


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## roadrner (Jul 21, 1999)

Pete McKay said:


> I've long been an advocate of take it off the showroom floor, weld a roll cage into it and take all the glass out. Then race it. There are only two parts of a NASCAR car that are the same as that of a showroom car. If it's FWD, then the car on the track should be too. Remember the Audi Quattro's in SCCA in the mid 1980's? Production based and they kicked the butts of the tube frame cars. The threw weight at them, did other things to slow them down, finally outlawed them. Let's get back to the production based stock car, and leave the show for the WWE.


 
Pete,
Couldn't agree with you more. Just like the Grand National days. Big arse cars with the chrome bumpers and some mods added or done to her and let them run. :thumbsup::thumbsup: rr


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## A/FX Nut (May 28, 2004)

I agree with alot of what's been said here. I've went to the August Michigan race since 2004 and went to the 1999 August race. The 99 race was the best I saw. 

I go with my brother and his buddy Troy. Made some friends from Canada and really have a great time. Troy is a great cook, and it's better than the racing.

I'm afraid NASCAR is forgetting the past. NASCAR has turned into an IROC series. When GM, Ford, and Chrysler go bankrupt, they'll just change the decals and engines to Toyota. 

I won't be going to MIS next year, got family I want to see in Virginia. I'll miss the partying at the camp site. The racing, not nearly as much. Randy.


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

Yeah, what if they used the "stock" cars. Front wheel drive 6 cylinders just wouldn't sell the tickets. But, MAN, I tell ya, look at the points race in the Truck series! A great points race last year between Skinner and Hornaday, and a great one this year between Bensen and Hornaday. It's the closest thing to the good ol Nascar. You can buy a street truck with almost half the horse power these guys have in their v8s, kinda like the late sixties in Nascar. Most of the sponsors have something to do with trucks or the industrial industry,(there's no 'Viagra' truck). I've seen several great races to the finish in truck racing this year. 
I saw Hornaday beat KY Busch at Texas a few weeks ago. Truck race day is the best day to go to the track. We went for $30/person. You see Sprint practice & qualifying, Nationwide practice & qualifying, and then the Truck race under the lights. It was AWESOME. We're planning on going to the Truck/Indy stop in the spring. The cup racing SUCKS compared to that. Smith built the track here in the middle of nowhere, and they still don't have the roads figured out, so on cup day, you're stuck in traffic on the way in, and stuck on the way out. If you can take a Friday off, truck racing is the way to go.
In all of Nascar, Ron Hornaday is the closest thing to Dale Earnhardt Sr. Nascar has. He drives a lot like him. By the way, back in 95, Dale himself picked Ron to drive his #16 Papa Johns Chevy, later sponsored by Napa. Championships followed.

Just my 2 pecos

Rich


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## slotcarman12078 (Oct 3, 2008)

*I said it before...*

Nascar hasn't been Nascar since the late 70's for me. If you were to pick out your favorite driver's car from your memory banks I'd almost bet dollars to donuts it'll be pre 1980. I haven't seen a race since my kid was in diapers (1999) and have no interest in watching it now. Days of Thunder totally ruined it for me. That made it a "girly sport".  What is the future of NASCAR?? The #55 Mary Kay Cosmetics car?? The Messingil #99 douche car?? The #11 Playtex tampon car?? The #8 Stayfree maxipad car?? Geeez!!

As far as ticket prices, as long as people are foolish enough to pay for them, they'll keep overcharging, regardless of the sport/venue. I guess Ticketmaster figured if people were willing to pay scalpers fees, they may as well scalp them themselves. My last dealing with ticketron (precurser to ticketmaster) was in 1988 for a Frank Zappa concert. :thumbsup: $18.00 a ticket, and no "service fees". The prices for "entertainment" have gone way out of control. I refuse to pay $80-100.00 for cheap seats, just to fight traffic both ways, pay $6.00 for parking, and fight crowds to get an $8.00 thimble of soda, or a $12.00 thimble of beer, and a $7.00 hotdog. It's just not worth it. I just as soon stay home and play with my slots!! At least I know the hotdogs and beer are affordable!!!:woohoo:

UtherJoe


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## pshoe64 (Jun 10, 2008)

*My Turn to Rant!*

Wow, can't agree with you guys more. NASCAR died right after the Lumina hit the tracks. That was the last race I went to. Didn't like the idea of Chevy being allowed to run a 4-door car as a 2-door a full year before the 2-door was available to the public! That was the shape of things to come (sorry Triumph). Wouldn't it be great to see factory sheet metal again! Of actual cars! I guess that's why I taped all of the "historic" races on Speedvision a few years back. Those I watch, I don't think I could match a driver to a sponsor or make of car anymore. Innovators like Junior Johnson and Smokey Yunick are long gone. Hell, the cars are identical except for the motors and grill stickers and the NASCAR officials will make that a thing of the past soon enough.

I'm going to the living room and watch the '57 Indy 500, '70 Lemans and maybe follow up with the '70 Daytona. Wow! Ford vs Chevy vs Dodge vs Plymouth vs Mercury! Won't fall asleep watching those! Cubes rule!

-Paul
Go Fast, Turn Left, Repeat Until Checker!


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## tjettim (Nov 29, 2005)

The 10 race "chase" pisses me off more than anything.Who
had the most points for the year should be the champion.
Give the chase winner a chase trophy.
One of my favorite motorsports is AMA Superbike racing and now
NASCAR has bought them.I hear they are going to change the
rules to make Harley engined Buells competetive.Crap,even stock
600s will be too fast unless they restrict them.I guess a person
needs to go to Europe to see good motorcycle and auto racing
on pavement.And what american television has done to ANY kind
of dirt racing coverage is criminal.


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## SplitPoster (May 16, 2006)

grungerockjeepe said:


> Ive got a few issues with NASCAR myself, outside of the fact that its overrated and overpriced:
> 
> 
> All left turns. Lame.
> ...



OMG, you made my day. As Nots-car went down that slippery slope a lot of people tried to follow along, but fewer and fewer can stomach what it has become. The Chase - is to find enough people who care, I guess. It's almost Thanksgiving and the showmasters are trying to keep you on the edge of the seat. Sorry, left the theater.

Yes Pete I remember the awesome Audi's, didn't see em on asphalt but saw the Pro Rally Quattro on dirt and gravel. Airborne sideways even, 20 feet away, while working a daylight rally stage in Missouri many years ago (sigh). Got to stage the whole field at night after a transit leg -what a trip!

I get to see a couple vintage races and maybe an SCCA national or 2 a year. Low tickets prices if not free if you work or crew. Saw two spec series races - Pro Miata from SCCA, awesome stock body cars with limited mods, and Miller Cup Ford from Grand Am, awful undertired slip n' sliders that can't race close with a silly little non-functional C.o.T. wing on the back. Screwed up spec series, hope they don't do this to AMA to help out the (second rate, low tech) Buehls.

OH MAN, we left out the ultimately smart, fantastic, stupendous feature of the C.o.T.!!!! What if one or more of the "big" 3 lose their identity, or maybe with a government bailout it wouldn't look right to pay millions to show in Nutscar? Quick fix - just swap out some decals and you've got Nissans, Hyundais, and Volkswagens! Whoever has the money! Nationwide series race in Seoul? Right on target. :woohoo:

Jeff SCCA #95771, 26 years and counting


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## afxgns (Jul 6, 2006)

From what I understand, right now you can build a "new" 69 Camero from the ground up.New sheet metal new "frame" new everything, and it's going to be safer,faster and stop better than the original.

with this in mind, What if NASFARCE picked a year, say 1968. and told all the teams that their BODIES had to be from that year.(excluding "specialty" cars) and be original wheelbase.
The tires would be spec, and the engines would be carberated, and running gear would be spec, for endurance reasons. 

How would this fly?

I know it would look GREAT !!!!!:wave:


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## Jim Norton (Jun 29, 2007)

*NASCAR lacks the drive*

AFXgns has a great idea.

But I just can't see Nascar having the drive to do anything that might encourage the millionaire, pretty boys to actually race....i.e. put themselves in harm's way.

I am waiting for NASCAR to somehow inject bikini clad women in the deal to try and boost interest............

Jim Norton
Huntsville, Alabama


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## eastside johnny (May 13, 2008)

Living in northern Ohio, there are several good dirt tracks that run weekly 410 or 360 sprints. Attica & Fremont have a great Friday/Saturday deal and Millstream in Findley reopened with Sundays late this summer. There is also a great group of winged Supermodifieds in the area, so I can go and see terrific racing two or three nights every weekend and get excited more than my rebuilt heart should have to endure. I can probably go and be excited watching good racing for a whole month for what it would cost for one NA$CAR "show". The only NA$CAR race that I might consider is Bristol. The hardest place to get tickets for. You think that before they built all of the cookie cutter 1 1/2 mile boring tracks someone would have been smart enough to build another bullring. You can put just as many seats around it & at least it's more entertaining and you are a lot closer to the action! 
Go out this coming season and support your area local short tracks and see some good stuff.


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## 1976Cordoba (Sep 20, 2000)

eastside johnny said:


> . . . You think that before they built all of the cookie cutter 1 1/2 mile boring tracks someone would have been smart enough to build another bullring . . .


Actually Rusty Wallace has been saying that for years. :thumbsup:


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## Dranoel Dragon (Oct 9, 2007)

eastside johnny said:


> Living in northern Ohio, there are several good dirt tracks that run weekly 410 or 360 sprints. Attica & Fremont have a great Friday/Saturday deal and Millstream in Findley reopened with Sundays late this summer. There is also a great group of winged Supermodifieds in the area, so I can go and see terrific racing two or three nights every weekend and get excited more than my rebuilt heart should have to endure. I can probably go and be excited watching good racing for a whole month for what it would cost for one NA$CAR "show". The only NA$CAR race that I might consider is Bristol. The hardest place to get tickets for. You think that before they built all of the cookie cutter 1 1/2 mile boring tracks someone would have been smart enough to build another bullring. You can put just as many seats around it & at least it's more entertaining and you are a lot closer to the action!
> Go out this coming season and support your area local short tracks and see some good stuff.


Millstream reopened? WOW!!!!

I grew up in Lima. My dad and I would often go to Limaland on Fri night, New Bremen on Sat afternoon and or Millstream Sat night and Eldora on Sunday. I remember the days of guys like Doc Dawson, Don Hewitt (and son Jack) the Nickels Brothers, Rick Ferkel (running with no nerf bars on the side of his sprint car)....

I also remember the rare occaisions when dad had to work on Friday night and we didn't get to go to Limaland. I would sit out in the back yard and listen to the sound of the engines way off in the distance.... From the other side of town.

I miss those days.  

I lived in Findlay for five yrs from '97 to '02 and there was a lot of talk about new owners and re-opening the track but it never happened. 

Limaland was closed for about 10 yrs before it was bought, revamped and reopened. Now the Lima Tech College owns it and their students actually go out and help the teams. Great program. Not to mention great racing on a 1/4 mile of dirt. 

BTW: I saw Sarah Fisher drive her first race in a full size 360 sprint at Limaland. 16 yrs old and and started outside pole for the feature. She finished 4th after getting snookered on a couple restarts, but held her own pretty damned well all things considered.

As for NAStyCAR, I could care less. It ain't racing anymore. I still watch every now and then just to see how some particular drivers are doing. But every time I turn on a NAStyCAR race I get 20 laps in and fall asleep. 30 laps to go I wake up. This is usually about the time the big wrecks start happening. Let's face it, you know that when it gets down to 30 to go there's gonna be a few crashes. That's whan the show starts. The fans sorta get to pick who wins. No more races finishing under a yellow and of the wrong driver (anyone other than Jr.) wins they throw beer cans on the track.

The cars are now spec racers. The chassis is the same, the bodies are identical regardless of make, the only difference is the decals for the nose and tail, and the engine (which is so regulated there is really no advantage which one you run). The only thing that makes it interesting is the wrecks, which I don't care to see. I'd much rather see a 500 mile race go flag to flag with no cautions, just real racing. Who wants to watch a 190 mph rush hour parade? No wonder I can't stay awake for a whole race.

Yeah, I'd much rather watch ALMS. 43 cars? Pfft! there have been feilds of more than 60. Four classes of cars on the track AT THE SAME TIME! (Ok, three now that they eliminated Corvette Class, also known as GT2)

Mid-engine cars, rear engine cars, front engine cars (i hated seeing Panoz drop out of the prototypes) 4,6,8,10,12 cyl engines, normally asperated and turbocharged.... *Turbo-Deisels!!!!!* Where else can you see that? NAStyCar's rulebook is thicker than the dictionary. ALMS's is like a pamphlet.

There's real racing going on all over the track and all through the field. I love seeing the overall leaders driving through a race for the lead in GT3 Turning left, right, uphill, downhill, tight hairpins, long sweepers and every combination there of. There's nothing like watching P1 and P2 cars fighting for the overall win while dodging slower traffic through the corkscrew at Laguna Seca. or the esses at Road Atlanta. 

And LeMans is the ULTIMATE!!!!

SCCA? OH YEAH!!!! I went to the Runoffs every year while they were at Mid-Ohio and I'm going to try to have the Cougars ready to go to an open track day next year.

And any given weekend you'll find me at a local Dirt track watching sprints, Mods and late models. Pure racing in its raw form. 750hp cars that weigh barely 1200 lbs. No transmission. No clutch. No follow the leader. No BS. Just foot to the floor, slide it through the corners, sling dirt, horsepower you can *feel* in the top row of the grandstands, RACING!!!! 

I gave up watching football because it became more of a show than a sport. Sadly, NAStyCAR has lost my interest for the same reason.


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## grungerockjeepe (Jan 8, 2007)

Oh and another thing: There's a Japanese version of nascar thats WAY better than ours, I forget what its called. Super GT maybe? I remember Jada toys had some diecasts of the cars and I looked it up on the 'net. There's a 300 hp class and a 500 hp class. The cars are gutted and fitted with safety cages and stuff like that, but its the same basic body shell and drivetrain as what you can buy and run on the street. And the cars themselves are cars you'd want. boxters, celicas, NSX's, 350Zs etc.


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## SplitPoster (May 16, 2006)

_Mid-engine cars, rear engine cars, front engine cars (i hated seeing Panoz drop out of the prototypes) 4,6,8,10,12 cyl engines, normally asperated and turbocharged.... Turbo-Deisels!!!!! Where else can you see that? NAStyCar's rulebook is thicker than the dictionary. ALMS's is like a pamphlet._
'snip"

You're right! First submission on

"List of Things You Won't See in the Nascar Pits"


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## ScottD961 (Jan 31, 2008)

Amen Pete, Amen !


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## noddaz (Aug 6, 1999)

*Racing diesel fuel?*

Who would have thunk it.
Racing diesel fuel...:lol:


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## ScottD961 (Jan 31, 2008)

Pete McKay said:


> I've long been an advocate of take it off the showroom floor, weld a roll cage into it and take all the glass out. Then race it. There are only two parts of a NASCAR car that are the same as that of a showroom car. If it's FWD, then the car on the track should be too. Remember the Audi Quattro's in SCCA in the mid 1980's? Production based and they kicked the butts of the tube frame cars. The threw weight at them, did other things to slow them down, finally outlawed them. Let's get back to the production based stock car, and leave the show for the WWE.


I couldn't agree more with this. Take it off of the showroom floor and run what ya brung !


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## rudykizuty (Aug 16, 2007)

*Maybe I just don't get it......*

I'm sorry, but with all due respect to everyone here, I can't help but play the devil's advocate on this one.........

I cannot possibly see myself having any interest in watching FWD V6's incapable of anything beyond normal highway speeds. I already see that every day on my commute to and from work. Even if you were to drop a showroom grade V8 in it, how much difference would it really make? 

NASCAR may not be what everyone wants it to be, but it seems to me that running street cars and selling it to the public as a high performance racing would be the biggest fraud of all. So, why would I even think to pay 100+ dollars to go watch like I do today?


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

They just don't make things like they used to.


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## tjettim (Nov 29, 2005)

Hybrid racing anyone?


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## SplitPoster (May 16, 2006)

Rudy, you have a point - nobody would want to watch _modestly_ hopped up commuter cars and grocery getters on a superspeedway. Double problem - with many of the new, all-so-similar tracks, the cars have to be going really fast just to get close to the track's potential. It would just look like driving. Second, the other disappointment with modern "stock cars" - the stickered psuedo-replicas are of models that aren't high performance cars to begin with. 

That said, look at endurance racing and the stock or prototype based cars. 

A stock Porsche GT 3 has a 3.6 Liter 6 cyl engine. That's about 220 cubic inches. The U.S. legal bone stock version is rated at 415 hp. So how much more do you think they can get out of an endurance race motor - one that is designed to live flat out for 24 hours? And in a car that, stripped down, doesn't weigh near as much as a C.o.T. It could be done and be entertaining. 

That said, Nasscar has so much invested in what they got it would take a cataclysmic event to get drastic change. Wonder how a taxpayer bailout giveaway would change the climate?


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## rudykizuty (Aug 16, 2007)

SplitPoster said:


> Wonder how a taxpayer bailout giveaway would change the climate?


I don't think it would change a thing as far as NASCAR goes. 

As for whether or not there should even be a bailout, I'm not so sure. The Big 3 love to blame their union contracts for all of their woes, but in the meantime Impalas are being built in Canada and Fusions are coming out of Mexico. I have a hard time with my tax dollars supporting companies that send American jobs outside the US. In the meantime, Toyota is building Camrys in Kentucky. What if they cried for help? Do they get it? 

Trying to figure out what constitutes an "American" company is even more confusing than what constitutes a race car


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

They just don't make things where they used to.


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## tjettim (Nov 29, 2005)

I think Nascar should should go retro.Tube frames with
replica 64 Galaxies,Impalas,Bonnevilles,and Belvederes!!!!


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

If all these car companies go out, they'll have to.


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## SplitPoster (May 16, 2006)

American built cars? Even better - I support cars built in my home state - that would be Hyundai, Honda, and Mercedes, while Kias will be built soon right along the state line in Georgia. The lines between import and domestic really aren't drawn like they are made out to be - none of these factories or jobs existed a dozen years ago, though they are newer, more efficient factories that employ fewer people to do the same work. Yet I wonder if the gains are figured at all into the potential losses. 

Good discussion and speculation - Nascarp "tradition" is just that. Retro does make just as much sense as calling a tube frame V8 a Fusion. Pick a different year every season - I would vote for 1963 for 2009, but that's just me.


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

> NASCAR may not be what everyone wants it to be


But it still has a huge following, outside of the grumpy old men crowd who prefer forms of racing that 85% of the US population don't even know exist.

Whether you like NASCAR or not, I'm a bit uncomfortable with this thread singling out Walthers as if they are making a mistake by bringing a line of NASCAR related products to market. They are doing a great job, supporting the hobby in a big way, and putting their money where they feel it will give them the best return on their investment. The popularity of NASCAR supports their choice. Nostalgia has its place, but it's not the only viable part of the hobby. We need manufacturers like Walthers to be making products that address popular and contemporary forms of racing and race cars if we want to have any hope of attracting younger people to the hobby. Having Walthers doing modern NASCARs is a very good thing for the overall health of the hobby, and the hobby is what brings us here.


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## rudykizuty (Aug 16, 2007)

:thumbsup:Afx, right on.......


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## tjd241 (Jan 25, 2004)

*Man does not live on NASCAR alone.*

If I was Walthers I wouldn't feel singled out at all with what's been said here. I'd be *thankful* for a thread like this. _WHERE ELSE IS ANYBODY SPECIFICALLY DISCUSSING AUTO RACING RELATED SLOT CAR PRODUCTS (which I sell)???_ Although it's only a small fraction of end buyers being represented here, it's a pretty important fraction, and you'd be well advised to listen to the sweet as well as the sour ( any mfg worth their salt routinely does this ). Nope, if I was Walthers I'd see this as a reminder from some of my best customers (grumpy old men) that if all I do is focus on NASCAR, then maybe it's way too early in the game to hoist the "Mission Accomplished" banner. :hat: nd


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## Pomfish (Oct 25, 2003)

I don't think anyone is dissing on Walther's for making Nascar at all, the thread is really about Na$car and their "watering down" shall we say the quality of racing over the last 10 years.

It was bound to happen from the minute the Wall St Journal had them on the cover. Big money ruins all things sooner or later.

Ask yourself this question, Which body style of race car brings better money on Epay, Indy style or Nascar?

Indys do much better because there are less of them made and they appeal to people as Purpose Built Race cars, not Taxis with Logos.

Anyway, I'll probably still buy a few of the COT cars from Walther's to help support the effort. 
I'd buy all the indys they care to make IF they slim down the Tchassis to properly scale them.

I have a feeling Tomy will own the Indy market very soon.
Thanks,
Keith


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## SplitPoster (May 16, 2006)

Some folks are just so sensitive about criticism of their favorite sport/spectacle. Don't know that I am a grumpy old man (LMFAO) at 48, but I have seen other race series make mistakes, or ride an old horse "because it has worked for years." I have been involved with SCCA in one form or another since I was 22, but SCCA Pro Racing killed a lot of great series.

Some of our favorite slots are Trans Am and Can Am cars - niether series exists as of now. Despite forays into alternatives, Trans Am became more limited with V8 American Pony cars until basicly there weren't any left except Mustangs. Hopefully that series will come back, but if there had been an under 2 liter class - like the (AFX) BRE Datsun raced in - or if they had cultivated alternate cars, the thing might still be going strong. Nobody even remembers Race Trucks LOL. Lots of criticism levied in the day, if the powers that were had acted differently SCCA Pro Racing might still be relevant.

I guess the fans with the most perspective are the ones who have been following things for a bit longer time period, if that makes some of us grumpy old men instead of naive pups so be it (LMAO once again). And no, I can't imagine Walthers paid a fortune for NASCAR rights for slot cars because there is not a fortune in slot cars to begin with. Yes, it is a good thing because it makes ho slots more relevant.

Got to criticize what you think deserves it though - Indy Car/Champ Car, Grand Am/IMSA - always were big divisions and egos in racing, and things didn't always work out best for the fan if those weren't put aside.


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## TomH (Jan 17, 2006)

I think N.A.S.C.A.R. is doing a great job. In my opinion the best of the best race in the series. I think the latest changes about testing is a positive move to reduce expenses for the teams and manufacturers. Toyota comming into the sprint cup series has been a good thing, hope more import brands or whatever ya want to call them decide to get into the fray. Factory teams have participated in the sport almost from the beginning. In "the good ol days", second place commonly would be two or more laps down. In the now, most cars and that means a field of 35 plus cars finish within a half a dozen laps of each other, with many races being decided in the last corner of the last lap.
The C.O.T. was developed to reduce the millions of dollars being spent in the wind tunnel, and to make the cars safer to drive. Sorry but I don't think they look any more bizzare than a formula 1 with disco wheelcovers and mustache looking wings and shark fins, but I like watching them run also. 
I am a race fan period. I will watch a lawnmower race before I watch a sitcom anyday. Back in the 60's 70's 80's about all I could see on TV was the wide world of sports showing part of a race in between skiing, and golf. Nowdays I am spoiled, I get to watch the supercars, dirt track racing, formula 1, N.A.S.C.A.R., monster trucks, rally racing, Baha, on and on. My sport, motorsports, has grown to this size. Too gratefull to bitch too much ya know?
B.T.W. keep seeing previews on speed about a volkswagon series that looks like it could be something to watch. Looks like a cross between sedan stock and figure eight racing ha. 
Keep making the C.O.T. Walters, I will keep buying them..bodies will probably end up on a T-Jet chassis though after I wear out the lifelike.


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## Slott V (Feb 3, 2005)

*Cot*

NASCAR is an example of what happens when you bend your rules for everyone. It's a can-o-worms. 

Ask the drivers how much they like the COT's. They hate 'em. Bloated tire grinders that are boiling hot inside. They have to run the suspension on the snubbers to get the front splitters where they need to be. The rear wing is dangerous in more ways than one. Goodyear can't keep rubber on these things because the areodynamics don't work with the suspensions and post-race inspections. And now they have the chassis set ups driving the cars sideways down the straights in true dog track fashion in order to get them to turn left in the merry-go-round oval track races. Ridiculous. 

How about losing this whole mirage of "preserving the sport" and ditch the 4 speed transmissions, carbs and restrictor plates? Not too mention the dinosaur rear live axle set ups that came from 1960's Chevy pick up trucks. There is so much technology they are leaving behind because of this stupid connotation.

I won't even touch on the subject of the points chase... :freak:

As far as the races go: I myself am sick and tired of all the hooplah and pre-race BS. I think NASCAR has reached it's peak and it's all downhill from here.


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## 1976Cordoba (Sep 20, 2000)

Slott V said:


> NASCAR is an example of what happens when you bend your rules for everyone. It's a can-o-worms.
> 
> Ask the drivers how much they like the COT's. They hate 'em. Bloated tire grinders that are boiling hot inside. They have to run the suspension on the snubbers to get the front splitters where they need to be. The rear wing is dangerous in more ways than one. Goodyear can't keep rubber on these things because the areodynamics don't work with the suspensions and post-race inspections. And now they have the chassis set ups driving the cars sideways down the straights in true dog track fashion in order to get them to turn left in the merry-go-round oval track races. Ridiculous.
> 
> ...


 
Well said.


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## fordcowboy (Dec 27, 1999)

DAYTON FIRST HOLIDAY IN A YEAR . GO CARL:thumbsup:99


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

Based on what we've seen from Walthers (Life-Like) over the past year or so, they are in no way saying "Mission Accomplished." Heck no. They recognize their status as a newcomer in the hobby and have been reaching out to collectors and racers to see what else they can bring to the hobby. In the meantime they have the NASCAR thing covered better than any other manufacturer. Nobody else is doing licensed NASCAR liveries in HO scale, which puts Life-Like in a pretty good position for NASCAR fans. 

I doubt we'll ever see a head to head battle between the slot car manufacturers like we did with Tyco and Aurora back in the day. In today's much smaller market they can each carve out a slice of the market to call their own, serve different needs of slot car buyers, and not have to compete directly with the other guys. I'm quite pleased with the results of the specialization that we're seeing now. The latest round of Life-Like NASCARs are excellent, the last few rounds of RaceMasters race cars have been stunning, and AutoWorld is coming out with some nice semis and 4-gears. That's not too shabby in the opinion of this grumpy old man.


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## coach61 (Sep 6, 2004)

Tom H I thought I was the only guy that watched Lawn mower racing.. Heck if we had a club around here I'd do it ina heart beat it hilaroius to watch and those guys are racing for fun not profit..


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## tjd241 (Jan 25, 2004)

How's about a set like the racing Granny set only with racing Grampa's instead... They could be riding lawnmowers... lol. nd


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## TomH (Jan 17, 2006)

coach61 said:


> Tom H I thought I was the only guy that watched Lawn mower racing.. Heck if we had a club around here I'd do it ina heart beat it hilaroius to watch and those guys are racing for fun not profit..


yeah me too coach. haha.yeah I know I'm sick, but I love the lemans start and three wide around the hay bales:thumbsup:


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## Slott V (Feb 3, 2005)

coach61 said:


> Tom H I thought I was the only guy that watched Lawn mower racing.. Heck if we had a club around here I'd do it ina heart beat it hilaroius to watch and those guys are racing for fun not profit..


Did someone say lawn mower racing?


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## SplitPoster (May 16, 2006)

Slott V said:


> Did someone say lawn mower racing?



That is absolutely brilliant. I do think the John Deere's have a performance advantage though, one that the Yardleys, Craftman, and MTD tractors can't match. So in the interest of close racing and the fans, I propose the Lawn Mower of Tomorrow....... :freak: sorry, couldn't resist. That is just too cool a build. Does the set come with green track?


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## TomH (Jan 17, 2006)

Slott V said:


> Did someone say lawn mower racing?


That is defintely close enough. Be great if ya could find like a fabric driver you could glue in the seat that would bounce around at speed


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## tomhocars (Oct 19, 2005)

*Buy Them*

I never thought this would happen.I am buying Lifless cars again.They are a barrgain.I find myself looking for # that I missed.They may not be the best looking cars around but look at all the great paint jobs available.L0k at who bought the company.WALTHERS.Look in their catalog.Every product is excellent and getting better.I think they will continue to make improvements as they go on.Just think what walthers did in the short time they have owned LIFE LIKE.When Mattel bought TYCO I figured with all that money they would be set up and doing one great car after another.Biggest let down .So keep at it Walthers. You have a good start. TOM


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## ScottD961 (Jan 31, 2008)

Those Lawn mower slots are too Funny ! Yes , Paint the track Green ! PLEASE That would be so cool!:woohoo:


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

Agreed, way to go Walthers! If there's any complaint at all is that we just can't get enough. Thanks for bringing realistic proportions back to HO cars. You do remember the thread with all the suggested cars right?

Rich


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

Walthers is already starting to list their 2009/2010 lineup. As of now they have the '09 paint scheme COTs for #24, #48, and #88 as well as a C5 Corvette and new Sprint cars on teh docket. Glad to see they are still investing and I hope the next round of releases is filled out with some of the cars that we've suggested.


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## tjettim (Nov 29, 2005)

I so hate that dot car chassis though.I would rather see an
updated M-car chassis.


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