# Why is H.O. Not Commercilized???



## hrnts69 (Apr 12, 2007)

Iam wondering why do you think H.O. Slot Cars are not Commercilized like 1/24 Slot Cars? Like, you see 1/24 and 1/32 Raceways as business, then H.O. as club tracks. Huge buildings with a couple tracks, lots of parts, and racing almost everyday. While H.O. in the basements or garages of people homes. Why do you think you hardly see H.O. that way?

I have been thinking about starting a raceway/shop. But only H.O. for now. Mainly because this area has a strong H.O. presence here. While 1/24 is way up north. And plus i would like to start out small too.

I have been thinking about a 1/4th mile DragStrip, Oval, and Road Course. The 1/4th mile Dragstrip would be the biggest attraction. Inline Car Bracket Racing one nite, Pancake Car Bracket Racing another nite, then Index racing a differnt nite. $3 per car, $1 BuyBack, with 6 car limit. And 65% payback. Then the other 2 tracks to cater to the local clubs around here. Those would be mainly on Saturdays tho.

I would really like to do this. I LOVE this sport! Wish i could race it everyday and be around it everyday. Heck, as long as the raceway supports itself, ill be happy. 

But, is there something iam missing? I dont get why i dont see any H.O. Commerical type faclilitys??? Just dont make sense.

Thanks
P.S. Sorry for spelling.


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## smalltime (Jun 3, 2006)

http://www.hotracks.us/

This place is in Independence Mo.
5 ho tracks (two not pictured) 1 1/24th scale track and a 24th scale dragstrip.

Lots of parts too!


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## bobotech (Oct 6, 2006)

I would imagine because a lot of people might think "small tiny cars=toys" whereas they can accept the big cars as "hobby class".

We all know that isn't true but that is how I see it.


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

hrnts69 said:


> Iam wondering why do you think H.O. Slot Cars are not Commercilized like 1/24 Slot Cars? Like, you see 1/24 and 1/32 Raceways as business, then H.O. as club tracks. Huge buildings with a couple tracks, lots of parts, and racing almost everyday. While H.O. in the basements or garages of people homes. Why do you think you hardly see H.O. that way?
> 
> I have been thinking about starting a raceway/shop. But only H.O. for now. Mainly because this area has a strong H.O. presence here. While 1/24 is way up north. And plus i would like to start out small too.
> 
> ...


Simple. HO is notoriously a cut-rate hobby at this point. A real shop can not survive on track time alone, and with real overhead, you can't compete with the basement hacks selling HO products online and at shows for very little over cost.


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## Dyno Dom (May 26, 2007)

I agree w/Bob & Gene. HO seems to be regarded as a basement/garage hobby. Over the years, I've visited comm'l. raceways in several different states. I have spoken w/track owner's on this subject. At least 3 had no interest to add an Ho track. Two of the shops felt 1/32nd racers were 
far more supportive in buying product. They both had similar opinions, Ho
racers would show up to race with parts purchased elsewhere. Several
owners attempted both oval & road course layouts in addition to expanding
layout size. An opinion was given that Ho has a passionate following, but
not enough racers willing to pay for track time. A Florida shop had an Ho
program on a large 6 lane Tomy track. The Tomy was replaced w/a longer
6 lane custom routed track. The racing interest ended soon after the new track arrived & it was sold. I do hope there are many raceways having 
successful HO programs. My 6 lane Tomy was purchased by very nice
owners of a NJ raceway & I certainly wish the best for them.


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## 00'HO (Nov 19, 2004)

*Allow me to share why not. *

#1 Greedy suppliers and or manufactures.

In the hobby industry the standard is 40% product discount.
That means sell $1,000.00 and the store pays $600 to the
suppliers and keeps $400 to pay bills.

Some of the HO suppliers allow only 20%
Now you have to sell $2,000 to make that $400. 
If your rent is $400, guess you need to sell more product,
or charge more for track time......

You can tell who b'friends the raceways.
It would be the companies like Wizzard HP that share dealer locations with
their customers.
Those who do not share in a networking program as to raceway locations,
are not friends of raceways. Those are the greedy misguided [email protected]#$%^&

#2 Seasonal - winter activity in our area

#3 Overhead - gotta pay the bills every 30 days

#4 Personality issues - just like at your real job 

http://www.daveshoraceway.com


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## Dyno Dom (May 26, 2007)

OO'HO, your 1st point is accurate. I've heard from track owners that Wizzard
works well w/hobby shops & raceways. Other HO suppliers not as much because they prefer direct mail order business at retail.


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## SuperFist (Aug 7, 2005)

I've been racing at Dave's H.O. Raceway for 6 years.
Dave is real dedicated to slot car racing and has good business sense to be able to keep his track open for 19 years.
The first time I came to Dave's raceway I really didn't know what a HO slot car was.
When I got there is was kind of intimidating because everyone really knew what they were doing.
But everyone welcomed me and made me feel like I belonged there.
Dave and the other racers started teaching me how to build and race T-Jets, Super G+ Sprint Cars and other slot cars too.
Now it's more than just a slot car track to me.
It's a place where I can come be with my best friends every Saturday for 26 weeks.
And the things I've learned at Dave's raceway I have taken to other slot car tracks and have done well.

Some of the racers have to travel a long way to get to the track including myself.
Because Dave's raceway is in Pittsford Michigan and that's like in the middle of B.F. Egypt.
But everyone knows there is no better way to spend a Saturday,
than racing slot cars at Dave’s H.O. Raceway.

Thanks Dave.

__________________


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## fisherman (May 18, 2010)

00'HO said:


> *Allow me to share why not. *
> 
> #1 Greedy suppliers and or manufactures.
> 
> ...


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## SuperFist (Aug 7, 2005)

fisherman said:


> :wave: Let;s to some Math..let say Your overhead is $600.00 a month..your open Wed-Sunday 5-days a week..this means you would have to only make $30.00 per day to pay your Overhead!! Always in the Fast Lane..


Saturday is slot car race day.

Monday-Friday work & Sunday rest.

__________________


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## 00'HO (Nov 19, 2004)

*Fish WED - Sun ?*

*Fisherman,*

Did it been there

*Why $150 over 5 days rather then the same in 1 ???*  

*Our history:*

http://www.daveshoraceway.net/history.html


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## 00'HO (Nov 19, 2004)

*What Dyno said*



Dyno Dom said:


> OO'HO, your 1st point is accurate. I've heard from track owners that Wizzard
> works well w/hobby shops & raceways. Other HO suppliers not as much because they prefer direct mail order business at retail.


*What you heard Dyno is correct.*

*Those supportive to the retail raceways get sales.*
:hat: :thumbsup: :wave:

*Non Supportive* 

:beatdeadhorse: :roll:


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## resinmonger (Mar 5, 2008)

In the Southbay area of Greater LA, it is even harder for a strore to survive. Try $2K just for rent. You have insurance, utilities, local business permits, etc. on top of that. Then, the owner has to make a considerable investment in inventory (cars, parts, tools). He also has to pony up for a track or three. 

Three HO raceways have come and gone in my area. Check out Brad's Tracks for Danny's Racers Edge tracks. All of these shops closed because they couldn't meet the overhead - the landlord at Racer's Edge repeatedly raised Danny's rent.

As stated above, Friday evening and Saturday are pretty much the good days for a raceway shop. Weekdays are pretty much dead. So, you've got a day and a half to make your nut. 

The low markup makes it really tough. The hobby industry in general has some of the lowest markups around. Brick and motar stores are never going to be able to compete with purely mail order business due to the overhead disadvantage.

A purely HO raceway is going to have a very tough go at making it. My hat is off to the ones, Like Dave's, who do survive. :thumbsup:


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## slotcarman12078 (Oct 3, 2008)

*We are discussing a hypothetical commercial HO track here...*



fisherman said:


> Let;s to some Math..let say Your overhead is $600.00 a month..your open Wed-Sunday 5-days a week..this means you would have to only make $30.00 per day to pay your Overhead!! Always in the Fast Lane..


*Reality Check*

I do believe there's a little more overhead than just rent!! Other bills like electric, phone, heat need to be considered. There should also be some sort of compensation for someone's time running the show. Also, keep in mind, the hobby does tend to be seasonal. Things slow down in the warm months, and peak in the colder months. A commercial track would need to find a way to keep active customers during the slow period, or make up the difference during the peak. Finding a dedicated group to finance this type of endeavor (through sales) is not easy. Maintaining that group is even harder. 

The main reason the larger scales can survive commercially is the space required to set up a challenging track usually exceeds the available space in most peoples basements / garages. An HO track is way easier to accommodate in the average home.


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

I've always thought that a great combination would be a driving range with minature golf and a slot car hobby store. In the seasonal areas, these two are at the opposite ends of the weather spectrum. As one cranks up, the other is cooling off. If you had this setup, it might very well mitigate the downtime.

As others have mentioned, the area you live in will pretty much decide whether it is doable. If you live in a high property tax area (like NJ), it's out of the question.

Joe


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## slotcarman12078 (Oct 3, 2008)

That is very true Joe. The rent varies so much depending on local. A go cart track would work too. Outdoor racing in the warm months, indoor racing on a smaller scale in the winter!! :thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## LeeRoy98 (Jul 8, 2005)

hrnts69 said:


> But, is there something iam missing? I dont get why i dont see any H.O. Commerical type faclilitys??? Just dont make sense.


The commercialization of slot car racing is what killed the sport in the late 60's - early 70's. Prices went through the roof and the small time racer couldn't keep up. The die hard racers couldn't generate enough revenue to keep the doors open and a commercial hobby died.
A lot of the HO enthusiasts participated in the 1/24th days. They understand the advantage of the club racers. There are exceptions, but they are few. 
Build your track and they will come... but they won't want to pay for track time or spend an extra 40% for parts. They want to share track time with friends and fellow enthusiasts, and on someone's home track is the perfect venue. It is the reality of the hobby. I'm not certain I would have it any other way.

Gary
AKA LeeRoy98
www.marioncountyraceway.com


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

Do the raceways help themselves? Do they provide something the HO guys can't get from racing with their mates in the basement?

Maybe a commercial raceway needs a KSR with bells and whistles like sector timing and telemetry traces on demand, and be happy to race all brands regardless of their own preferences, to get the HO guys to surface and come racing.


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## smalltime (Jun 3, 2006)

SuperFist said:


> I've been racing at Dave's H.O. Raceway for 6 years.
> Dave is real dedicated to slot car racing and has good business sense to be able to keep his track open for 19 years.



This is Key......Dedication.

We have a dedicated core of folks who want to keep the shop, and we support it. We buy parts, or order them when they run out. There needs to be a few more leagues and races run there, but they are working on it and we will show up to buy in when it happens.

The other thing is, Keep it fair.
Don't allow 1 guy to buy EVERY SINGLE wiz bang new shoe. This has killed numerous shops around here. If I have to run against a part that I can't buy, I go home.


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## 00'HO (Nov 19, 2004)

*"Bells and Whistles"*



Montoya1 said:


> Do the raceways help themselves? Do they provide something the HO guys can't get from racing with their mates in the basement?
> 
> Maybe a commercial raceway needs a KSR with bells and whistles like sector timing and telemetry traces on demand, and be happy to race all brands regardless of their own preferences, to get the HO guys to surface and come racing.


You are right, dare to be different. If you add colorful paint and the newer
gadgets available, you will have to pry the guys out of your raceway
come closing time.
We now take a yearly trip to the Ritchfield, Ohio slot car show.
That keeps the drivers bonded and tweaked for the hobby/sport.










Exposure of your raceway to the public vs build and they will come.
We took a portable track to our fairs, festivals, and parties within a
75 mile radius. The first 10 years of that venture, before the crash,
gave my girls a summer job, and made daddy some $$$










http://www.daveshoraceway.com


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

Is it safe to say that these problems are not isolated to just commercial slot car tracks? *Resinmonger* brings up a great point about rent, or lease rates. It seems there isn't any privately owned strip malls anymore. They are all 'managed' by leasing companies with a corporate mindset that I stopped trying to understand years ago. $2k for a small space seems to be the norm around here, and they would rather let it sit empty for years than lower the rate. Premium spots go for up to $10k a month for about the same size. That's a lot of profit to make rent in any business. This crap has put a squeeze on all Mom&Pop shops in all industries. Now throw the internet in the mix. You just can't hide suppliers anymore, and profit margins have been more than cut in half as a result. Big volume retailers and changes in the manufacturing industry doesn't seem to help either.



smalltime said:


> The other thing is, Keep it fair.
> Don't allow 1 guy to buy EVERY SINGLE wiz bang new shoe. This has killed numerous shops around here.
> If I have to run against a part that I can't buy, I go home.


Commercial HO slot car tracks have come and gone around here.
Neil's Wheels in Plano,Tx had the longest run (11 yrs). Some of you may have known him on eBay as the SlotFather. He was doing it right, plenty of parts, great tracks, racing everything from tjets to Patriots and keeping a beginners league separate from the pros. He tried to keep it fair, so it lasted, even though rent was killing him. As far as the other tracks, they all ended the same as what *smalltime* stated. Inevitably, some guy would always get the inside info on when the next shipment was coming and buy up all the parts for the current running class, pick through all the new cars for the best ones, etc, etc.

It seems the best way to maintain a commercial HO track is to have another source of income,
and to market your track with things bigger and better than what most people can do at home.
If you can't own your own shop on the edge of town, it just doesn't look possible.


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

NTxSlotCars said:


> ...You just can't hide suppliers anymore, and profit margins have been more than cut in half as a result. Big volume retailers and changes in the manufacturing industry doesn't seem to help either.


I can't agree with this part. The fact that suppliers are "exposed" means nothing. I know who fills the tanks at my local gas station, doesn't mean I can go buy fuel off the truck at a cut rate.

It all boils down to the need for manufacturers and distributors to police both themselves and their retail channels. Wizzard does it, Scale Auto does it, Dash does it. You can't open an account with Scale Auto or Wizzard without storefront pics and/or lease/mortgage copies. Profit margins have been cut where manufacturers and top-level distributors allow sales to occur outside the normal chain of retail sales. I've talked to numerous shop owners who've dropped pretty much everything HO related over the last few years, and the recurring complaint is that they can't compete with joe pajamas selling JL/AW cars and other things at a buck over cost out of their parents houses. It is the _manufacturers responsibility_ to see that this doesn't happen.


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

Hmmmm. Maybe I didn't say it in the best way, cause the whole second part of your reply does agree with what I was trying to say. It's a free for all on the internet. You can't charge a 40% mark up at a shop when you can get a better deal online. Funny, buyers don't seem to count shipping when comparing prices at a retail location. Shops need something exclusive to sell, and in this economy, with manufacturers willing to sell to anyone to cover costs, that's getting harder to do. Maybe the suppliers aren't 'exposed', but everyone seems to know what the wholesale price is.


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

You can buy direct from 'the big three' though can't you swamper?

As a punter I have done so many times and am glad to be able to do so, but it does soften the support for the raceways and shops.

I am not saying they should not do it, but they do and thats the reality of the situation.

What I really don't like is the website-out-of-date scenario which means not everyone is getting the same access to the same parts. The old who-you-know bolox.


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

Montoya1 said:


> You can buy direct from 'the big three' though can't you swamper?
> 
> As a punter I have done so many times and am glad to be able to do so, but it does soften the support for the raceways and shops.
> 
> ...


Yes you can buy direct from the "Big 3" as a consumer paying their *suggested retail price*, the very same price you are likely to pay at a shop. If you contact them by phone 9 times out of 10 they will first try to direct you to a possible local reseller aka Hobby Shop, only making the sale themselves as a last alternative. 

To purchase at reseller price though you have to be a bona-fide retail shop and they (and their wholesale suppliers if any) will make you prove this prior to any transactions. And they like to see a commitment, ie xxx amount of dollars being spent annually. Also, and this is the important part..._if you are caught selling too cheap on a regular basis they will drop you like a worn out pickup shoe._

The end result is that a Storm roller will cost about $40 anywhere or any way you purchase it. A bare Super G+ roller, about $15 wherever you go. In the same vein a new Dash body will cost the same from Dan or from a local shop. No false expectations, gimmicks ala chase cars, cut-throat distributors, etc. Just a solid foundation to do business. This is how distribution from manufacturer to supplier to shop to customer works and is the backbone of a successful commercial environment.


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## resinmonger (Mar 5, 2008)

The moral of this thread is count yourself lucky if you have a HO raceway or even a hobby shop that deals in HO cars and parts near by! The owner is bucking the odds. Support them.


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

*Time to takem' to the wood shed*



SwamperGene said:


> I can't agree with this part. The fact that suppliers are "exposed" means nothing. I know who fills the tanks at my local gas station, doesn't mean I can go buy fuel off the truck at a cut rate.
> 
> It all boils down to the need for manufacturers and distributors to police both themselves and their retail channels. Wizzard does it, Scale Auto does it, Dash does it. You can't open an account with Scale Auto or Wizzard without storefront pics and/or lease/mortgage copies. Profit margins have been cut where manufacturers and top-level distributors allow sales to occur outside the normal chain of retail sales. I've talked to numerous shop owners who've dropped pretty much everything HO related over the last few years, and the recurring complaint is that they can't compete with joe pajamas selling JL/AW cars and other things at a buck over cost out of their parents houses. It is the _manufacturers responsibility_ to see that this doesn't happen.


Boy howdy! Wadda mouthful.

Now I enjoy good deals as much as the next tightwad...but time and time again we see the end result of a sales heirarchy that is not managed correctly. It IS the manufacturers right and to some extent their obligation to set some standards of sanity AND to maintain them with diligence. 

It's little wonder a specialized business related to slots cant make it if they're being hamstrung from the top.

I dont care what yer mommy sez; "Not everyone gets a blue ribbon!" Nor can everyone be a distributor. It all boils down to greed and all that crap where manufacturers are willing sell more and undercut the established distributors to bolster sales/numbers. The end user discount used to be set by the rep based on said users volume and payment history. Now the end user discount is set by a gaggle of price limbo-ing wannabe distributors. IMHO the established brick and mortar distributor has been given short notice and placed on the endangered species list; while the manufacturers and "cyber reps" divy the additional portion provided by the extinction of what one would call the traditional distributor. 

Gee whiz I'm so sorry your numbers are bad...but then again I'm not the one who undercut loyal distributors and enabled every Goon with a shipping address and some coin to become a distributor. It's been a trend for some time. Things like loyalty, discipline, and authority are woefully missing in the modern sales chain. It's little wonder the whole thing tipped over...it's rotted at it's core....duh.


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

NTxSlotCars said:


> Hmmmm. Maybe I didn't say it in the best way, cause the whole second part of your reply does agree with what I was trying to say. It's a free for all on the internet. You can't charge a 40% mark up at a shop when you can get a better deal online. Funny, buyers don't seem to count shipping when comparing prices at a retail location. Shops need something exclusive to sell, and in this economy, with manufacturers willing to sell to anyone to cover costs, that's getting harder to do. Maybe the suppliers aren't 'exposed', but everyone seems to know what the wholesale price is.


Yes and no. I think we are making different points here. The only reason it's a free fo all on the 'net is when the manufacturers (read: Auto World) close their eyes to the distribution channels. See my reply to Montoya, you don't see any of those products being hawked online to consumers at a fraction over cost. The folks in charge make sure of that as there are very easy ways to do so. The fact that consumers may know wholesale price means nothing, it's not like a cracked code or something. 

The bottom line is that when companies like Auto World, which probably distributes more "complete vehicle" products into the market than all the others combined, allow near wholesale pricing to occur the minute a product is released, brick-and-mortar establishments grow tired of it and it affects the hobby as a whole.

This board paints a very clear picture of the state of this hobby. How many race results do we see posted here? Very few. How many racing tips? _Virtually none_, aside from the Fray building tips. But we all know who has what and how many. That, sadly, is a clear picture of the HO _Racing_ Hobby today...


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

Bill Hall said:


> ...It IS the manufacturers right and to some extent their obligation to set some standards of sanity AND to maintain them with diligence.


Hell when a manufacturer tells one entity what to sell product to the public at, then allows another to cut that price by a large margin, that obligation may be more than a moral one.

Ya know, Bill's statement reminds me...given that they've already been burned once, I'm very curious about Hobby Lobby selling AW product again.


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## smalltime (Jun 3, 2006)

SwamperGene said:


> This board paints a very clear picture of the state of this hobby. How many race results do we see posted here? Very few. How many racing tips? _Virtually none_, aside from the Fray building tips. But we all know who has what and how many. That, sadly, is a clear picture of the HO _Racing_ Hobby today...


I couldn't dissagree more Gene,
If you want results, I've got 'em. Chist, we race all the time around here. every wednesday we race G-Jets/Thunderstorms. Every two weeks there is a MAHOR race with twenty or thirty guys. We've got drags, 32nd ovals, HO nasfarce ovals, local basement groups abound. 

I come here for the modeling/scratchbuild stuff. That's where my enjoyment is anymore. Now there are the collectors that post here, and the newbees, the race announcments, just a well rounded group.

I think it says alot that this forum has remained viable and healthy for so long. I feel very good about the state of the hobby.


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

smalltime said:


> I couldn't dissagree more Gene,
> If you want results, I've got 'em. Chist, we race all the time around here. every wednesday we race G-Jets/Thunderstorms. Every two weeks there is a MAHOR race with twenty or thirty guys. We've got drags, 32nd ovals, HO nasfarce ovals, local basement groups abound.
> 
> I come here for the modeling/scratchbuild stuff. That's where my enjoyment is anymore. Now there are the collectors that post here, and the newbees, the race announcments, just a well rounded group.
> ...


Tim note that in my post I specifically refered to the _Racing_ side of the hobby which is important considering this thread is about the commercial viability of a shop with tracks. The collecting/customizing portion is doing fine and well (with a lot of help from HT) , but the reality is there are very little posts regarding racing, rules, etc. 

Even if you did all of your above mentioned racing at one location, that list or more specifically 20-30 guys racing a few times a month is not going to support a racing shop that has rent, utilities, wages, and a host of other things to pay. That's a great core but needs to be expanded to 20-30 guys a few night a week, and to get there involves lots of promotion of as I said _racing_ these little cars.


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

We have a group here that's making it work. The guy is renting space inside a large hobby shop for his tracks. The low overhead is the key. He carries parts and cars from AW. They meet every Friday night and sometimes on weekends. They race the Fray tjets and a few other tjet classes. I'd go more, but I just can't get into the fray stuff, even with a good car. I really like Tycos, but thats a whole nuther discussion. Anyways, he takes donations and his sales cover the small rent, and everyones happy. They have 15 to 20 folks every week, and travel up to Kansas to race with those guys at special events.

Unless you have an arrangement like this, or you own your own place, it's kinda hard to make a commercial HO track work these days. Small towns seem to have an abundance of nice older buildings. Sadly, I've seen several historical landmarks deemed outdated, and destroyed to build a new bank, gas station, fast food chain or bus stop, all in the name of "moving forward". Seems like city developers are eager to sweep old buildings away like ant hills in favor of more versatile corporate friendly spaces. (grumble grumble)


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## 00'HO (Nov 19, 2004)

*e=mc'*



smalltime said:


> I couldn't dissagree more Gene,
> If you want results, I've got 'em. Chist, we race all the time around here. every wednesday we race G-Jets/Thunderstorms. Every two weeks there is a MAHOR race with twenty or thirty guys. We've got drags, 32nd ovals, HO nasfarce ovals, local basement groups abound.
> 
> I come here for the modeling/scratchbuild stuff. That's where my enjoyment is anymore. Now there are the collectors that post here, and the newbees, the race announcments, just a well rounded group.
> ...


*------------------------------------*
*The HO slot car hobby is very healthy.*

1. Good race directors listen to their drivers, and race what the
guys want to race.

2. Great raceway directors/owners outlaw manufacture parts 
that are not sold by the raceway. 

I am still working on number 2

Raceways could use a union... 

 :roll: 

http://www.daveshoraceway.com


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## 00'HO (Nov 19, 2004)

*It's all good*



slotcarman12078 said:


> That is very true Joe. The rent varies so much depending on local. A go cart track would work too. Outdoor racing in the warm months, indoor racing on a smaller scale in the winter!! :thumbsup::thumbsup:


*Whatever it takes to turn the buck $$$* 

*With the complimentary snack bar and cute girls.* :thumbsup:

For the ultra trigger happy, a complimentary 100 round
BBs carnival air "shoot out the star" game. 
Shoot out the star, get a free race on track of choice.
Or a token to play at a later date. :woohoo:

*And of course for the real frustrated folks, for free you can play
*
Beat the horse
:beatdeadhorse:

*My personal favorite*

http://www.daveshoraceway.com


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## SuperFist (Aug 7, 2005)

00'HO said:


> *The HO slot car hobby is very healthy.*
> 
> 1. Good race directors listen to their drivers, and race what the
> guys want to race.
> ...


Isn’t #1 & #2 related for a common good if you combine them together ?

"...listen to their drivers, and race what the guys want to race, and outlaw manufacture parts that are not sold by the raceway."

__________________


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## 00'HO (Nov 19, 2004)

*Save the raceways*



SuperFist said:


> Isn’t #1 & #2 related for a common good if you combine them together ?
> 
> "...listen to their drivers, and race what the guys want to race, and outlaw manufacture parts that are not sold by the raceway."
> 
> __________________


*SF, look at Jerry's 1/24 scale programs in Michigan Center.
Parts used are parts the house sells.*

*An awesome race director can take the heat come tech inspection.*
:devil:

*If it's not off the wall, it's illegal......* 


*Raceway Local 49271*


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

SuperFist said:


> Isn’t #1 & #2 related for a common good if you combine them together ?
> 
> "...listen to their drivers, and race what the guys want to race, and outlaw manufacture parts that are not sold by the raceway."
> 
> __________________


 

#1 is racing dictated by the racers, #2 is racing dictated by the shop...they are pretty much opposites really.

What happens when the racers want to run something the shop doesn't, or worse yet, won't carry? Or the shop just blew a wad on brand X tires to find out the racers want to run brand Y. Unfortunately it never remains simple. :freak:

The magic place lies in compromises (ie understanding _intentions_ of rules) made by both sides to promote fair racing and to keep the programs from stagnating...all the while allowing everyone to share new products and technologies for the benefit of the entire hobby, from manufacturers to shops to racers and everyone in between.


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## bkreaume (Feb 6, 2010)

These "what is wrong with my hobby" topics are sadly amusing. Do you realize how frustrating this hobby is for a new comer? lets forget about the cars that are way to fast for the box tracks that are sold at hobby stores or the inconsistent AW cars that need to be adjusted with hocus Pocus.

I am a relative new comer who is past the this and throughly embarrassing ironing the kinks out of my little toys to share some time with my son.

It has taken a lot of time to search here on HT and other sites to find out what parts and techniques I may want to try. 

The real frustrating part is trying to spend my money. Which just completely and utterly baffles me. I would gladly spend it at my local track or hobby store if there was a better than 50% chance of having what I would need in stock. Sadly that is not the case.

the only other alternative is the internet. If you have a local track and stock the parts, why are you not taking this opportunity to sell those parts online?

I know of a few sites that have have a good selection but those sites are a down right joke. No description, pictures or an easy way to navigate your site. I am sure these are 'Good Guys' with in the community. But they need to understand that not everyone is in their community and there is a need for trust if you want them to send money. The first step is is through your website presentation. 

I will not name the site but want to give an example.

I wanted to mount my first Lexan body on my brand new G-jet. So I came across a site that had a decent selection on pre-painted bodies. The site has pics and descriptions (not bad for HO site). OK I need to use this contact form to order. I search the internet and find out that they are real company and good things to say about them. 

I try to submit the contact form, It does not work. I try to another web browser, still does not work. WTF, I like the body so let me email them.

I email them and a day or 2 later I get a reply with the cost and shipping. So I send them a Paypal payment and few Days go by. I am left wondering did I send the payment to the right person because I never received a confirmation that the payment was received. 

About day 5 still nothing. So I email the guy just asking when my order may ship. the next day I get a reply ' It is shipping today'. WTF did I have to remind them.

A few days late I received my order. Damn, the body pins are missing (it happens no big deal). So I email him again. I never received a reply. Oh well its only $2 lost

The weekend comes around and I really want to mount this body. So I search the internet find and alternative mounting method and head of the local hobby store hoping that they may have what I need. they did not but I bought some other items that may work.

Well guess what they dont and to top it off I screwed up my mounting posts on my brand new $60 slot car. I was a little pissed but I screwed it up what can you do.

Then a few days later guess what shows up in the mail. the body pins. Now I am pissed. I spent an 3-4 hours of my weekend another $10 and F'ed up my slot car. because this A'hole did not have the courtesy to send an email saying sorry it is on its way.

Do you think I will be sending him another $30? 

So after the longest post I ever made.

What is wrong with the Hobby? Join the 21st century. the internet is here to stay. EMBRACE IT.

Brian


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## bkreaume (Feb 6, 2010)

I have offered this before. If you have made the dedication of opening a local track and don't know how to set up a proper website to sell your inventory online. there is good free software out there and I can help you.

for $15/month for hosting and around $200 in trade of slot car stuff. I can set you up with a modern site and help you get you up to speed. 

Of course you will need to add your own pictures and descriptions. But it is very easy to maintain and I am sure you will have a leg up on the rest of the competition and probably make more than your track does \.

We will pay for good service. you do not really need to have cut rate prices.

Brian


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

Brian I feel for ya but there is a lot to consider there. Shops stock very little because the truth is they have to sit on stuff too long to make it worthwhile, so long in fact that there's a good chance that much of a given inventory will become obsolete before it ever sells. The real key to all this discussion is organizing races/get-togethers/whatever and promoting the hobby/sport of racing these little buggers. The more people there are racing the more those support products will sell and suppliers will be inclined to stock them. 

Your story does unfortunately show the worst of both the real and online worlds when it comes to supplies for this hobby and sadly it's not suprising at all. :freak:


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

bkreaume said:


> I have offered this before. If you have made the dedication of opening a local track and don't know how to set up a proper website to sell your inventory online. there is good free software out there and I can help you.
> 
> for $15/month for hosting and around $200 in trade of slot car stuff. I can set you up with a modern site and help you get you up to speed.
> 
> ...


 
Maybe this will answer any questions... http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=296974


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

All thats gonna show is how many of us were broke in June. I voted 0.


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## bkreaume (Feb 6, 2010)

SwamperGene said:


> Maybe this will answer any questions... http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=296974


1. It only has 4 participants 
2. Stuff is still selling on Epay ( descriptions, images and easy ordering)
3. it is off season for the hobby.

I understand why I can't find the parts locally and if I owned a hobby store I would not carry HO either.

My short point was. the hobby makes it very difficult for for new people with a deep interest to spend their money. If I had only a mild interest I would find another hobby and you would never have a chance of me joining any races. Keep pushing the newbies away and it will only get worse.

I live 1 mile from professor motors. I guarantee their online sales dwarf their store front sales even with the outdated website. But I can order fairly easily and he takes the time to describe what he is selling. I order on the site and do a local pickup.


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## ParkRNDL (Mar 20, 2002)

NTxSlotCars said:


> We have a group here that's making it work. The guy is renting space inside a large hobby shop for his tracks.


There was a deal like this several years ago in Westminster, MD. A guy we knew with a nice routed track (maybe 4x12 or so?) made an arrangement with a big indoor rec center, the kind of place that has batting cages and video games and skee-ball and a snack bar and a big industrial jungle gym with a ball pit for the little kids. He sat his track in the middle of the action, not far from the skee-ball prize counter. Dunno if he rented the space or what, but he did have a section of the counter with cars and parts and a couple of new AFX sets. I went and raced a couple times and had a great time, but it was like an hour and a half drive for me, so I couldn't do it too regularly. The arrangement didn't last all that long, I don't know exactly why... hey noddaz, you reading this? got anything fun to add?

Now in the town where I live, there's a rec place like that, which even has a skatepark and mini golf and a go-kart track. And there's a bigger one about 40 minutes up the road. Man, I WISH a slot car track could work out at one of those locations, but I'm not enough of a businessman to know how to make it happen.



NTxSlotCars said:


> Small towns seem to have an abundance of nice older buildings. Sadly, I've seen several historical landmarks deemed outdated, and destroyed to build a new bank, gas station, fast food chain or bus stop, all in the name of "moving forward". Seems like city developers are eager to sweep old buildings away like ant hills in favor of more versatile corporate friendly spaces. (grumble grumble)


I see vacant buildings like that around here all the time. I always think they'd make great hobby shops/slot car raceways, but again, lack of business expertise/cash flow keeps it from happening...

--rick


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

bkreaume said:


> 1. It only has 4 participants *(assuming every HT member has viewed it already?)*
> 2. Stuff is still selling on Epay ( descriptions, images and easy ordering) *(that would count as an online purchase, so long as it was a parts order)*
> 3. it is off season for the hobby. *(yes and no...some people spend more at this time of year prepping for the coming racing season. We should run this poll monthly, after a year we'd know for sure.)*
> 
> ...


Brian I used to do a lot of website work and completely understand your enthusiasm as I was pushing for the same things 5-6 years ago. The hard truth is that few manufacturers and/or shop owners are going to jump for a $2 order which is what they end up getting swamped with, and most certainly they couldn't afford to pay someone to process orders. For my own 2 cents...I still like to see the stuff in my hands first anyway, much like many other racers I know who either refuse or are very reluctant to buy stuff online.


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## bkreaume (Feb 6, 2010)

Gene,

good points. 

Funny a track owner would want to try and sell $3 an hour track time but not want to fill orders. 

Me personally, I will not just order a 2 dollar item over the internet. Shipping is more than that. I would add more items to the order. that is what happened with my order above. I started out wanting to spend $10 but ended up spending $30.

Would a track owner open a store front and not paint, shelves, through all the stock in a box and a jar to through your money in when you want to purchase something. If they did this they would go out of business no matter what industry.

The fact that there are track owners that have put a half hearted effort into selling on a website shows they want an extra steam of revenue. heck they probably need it to keep their track open.

I have inquired about selling these products online and believe I could make a few bucks off it. But having to open a store front would be a losing venture.

This horse is dead. I am just trying to help track owners who want to sell online. :wave:


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

bkreaume said:


> ...This horse is dead...


Maybe so but the jockey is still hasn't found his way to the finish line 

Your points are all very valid as well, I'm just pointing out that there is a lot to consider but there are ways to deal with much of it. Minimum orders of say $20 would entice some guys to pay attention a little more often.

One other big problem is that they have to be in line with their store pricing, meaning that even online they can't compete with basement-operated "stores", so it starts to look like a big waste of time and effort to them.


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

Just throwin' another thought out regarding the original topic.

Given that commercial shops with HO tracks are so few and far between, I've always thought it would be a good idea for manufacturers and suppliers to create a mid-level price aimed at hosting facilities that are not a dedicated "shop". For example where a typical shop discount is 45% or so below retail, have another option for home-based facilities allowing them to purchase supplies at say 20% below retail. This could get more products to racetracks without undercutting the "shop" margins...especially if some sort of minimum pricing were enforced. Of course there are a lot more details to making this a successful idea, but I really think it could do wonders for the hobby.


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## martybauer31 (Jan 27, 2004)

I agree about wanting a proper website with a shopping cart, it's quite frustrating to go to a site and send an email to find out they are out of inventory when a cart should typically tell you what is in stock and what isn't.

That being said, there are a number of sites that pictures of the product along with descriptions with no carts and they are extremely easy to get in touch with and are great communicators (RTHO, Scale Engineering, Slot Pro, to name a few).

Sites with shopping carts that do well for me are Jag Hobbies and Lucky Bob's. The only vendor of the "Big 3" that I have experience with is Scale Auto/BSRT... yes, their site is out of date but a phone call or an email is always quickly answered and they ship fast as well.

Like any hobby, unfortunately you have to put some effort into it and do some homework to figure out what the best way of doing things is. It unfortunate that HO racing isn't more popular and that local hobby shops don't have rows dedicated to it. I can throw a stick in any direction and hit a shop carrying RC and train stuff, but slot cars in any scale just isn't prevalent.

For our hobby it's primarily the "basement" racers that are talking on these forums, and it's places like this where I came across my group, which has led me to monthly racing between Seattle and Portland and national races elsewhere.

I can't imagine spending $150 on a Tomy International set and then stuffing it in the closet when I can't find spare parts for it at the local Hobby Lobby. The internet is far too powerful to give up on a hobby with doing a little Google Fu first. If people don't want to do even a basic search to find out if there are others out there, not sure I really want to race with them, as those are typically the guys who would rather have someone hand them a car, let them race and go home.

This hobby is so much more than that, local shop or not.


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## bkreaume (Feb 6, 2010)

SwamperGene said:


> Maybe so but the jockey is still hasn't found his way to the finish line


LOL...

I agree about the mid-level pricing. all industries need to evolve to survive.

Marty,

My point of view is coming from a newbie. if it is the first time hearing and coming across these websites most will leave and never return.

imagine if you had to email one of the vendors on amazon or ebay just to order because they did not set it up right. would you do it. Big guy or little guy, you do not have the benefit of face to face interaction for internet sales. you have to develop trust in the first few seconds when someone visits your site.


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## Steve F (Apr 30, 2007)

It all boils down to the need for manufacturers and distributors to police both themselves and their retail channels. Wizzard does it said:


> manufacturers responsibility[/I] to see that this doesn't happen.


Correct Wizzard police's , Scale police's , Dash does not police.. Correct he tells his dealers that he only made 200 of each body & tells them they must sell at 11.00 & not on ebay, Then he himself sells them on ebay at .99 , some get bid up to 3.00 or 4.00 & then he sends second chance offers to everyone from .99 to the 3.00 or 4.00 they ended at, First he lies about only making 200 & the reason him & TL ( Autoworld ) no longer talk is because Dan screwed Tom back in the JL days with release 3 & 4 , Tom gave him a great buyout price because he way over produced them with the understanding that he would sell them at distributor pricing, Dan turned around & blew them out on ebay at less than 3.00 per car when distributors were paying JL 5.95 at the time.. AW has never recovered from what Dan did, everyone now thinks wait a few weeks after a release comes out & wait for the dump , Tom is working on fixing this by making less cars with every release, Tom does need to police better Yes.. Look at buds , he buys direct from Aw & then sells them at a buck or two above cost, He is not a distributor , he is a dealer getting distributor prices & cuts every dealers throat. At blowing them out the day they come out for a buck above & sells a 1000 cars a week he made a 1,000.00 profit that week, This is why a real dealer weather they be a brick & mortar store or a guy that spends thousands traveling the country to do shows can't make any profit. They can't compeat with that.. Tom will get this fixed in the next year or so, He has a lot of cool stuff coming out & is limiting the # being made, this will help get these back into the raceways were they belong.. The internet also does not help but that is something that people want, Not everyone wants to drive 50 miles to a hobbystore to buy anything when everything is right at their fingertips & they don't have to spend 15.00 for gas.. It is what it is & most HO is older guys like us, Kids want no part of HO , What I have been doing is going around to schools & helping set up racing programs to try to get some youth into the hobby , Youth is the future not us old guys ( OK I'm 50 ) I still feel like a kid but really know I'm not. Well all this typing has made me tried so I'm going to take a knapp now..

Steve out


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## 00'HO (Nov 19, 2004)

*Raceway micro brewry*



resinmonger said:


> The moral of this thread is count yourself lucky if you have a HO raceway or even a hobby shop that deals in HO cars and parts near by! The owner is bucking the odds. Support them.


--------------------------------------------------------------------

,*Yes before their is another track fee increase *

*LOL*

My guys are pretty good about in house purchasing.

They are also good at drinking beer....... :hat:

A micro brew raceway/cute girls........ big tip jar  :thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

00'HO said:


> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> ,*Yes before their is another track fee increase *
> 
> ...


lol 

We had a guy that had talked about splitting a building with his wife who would operate a beauty parlor in her half...I don't think it would be appropriate to mention the name everyone pretty much immediately thought of for the combined venture.


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## martybauer31 (Jan 27, 2004)

bkreaume said:


> Marty,
> 
> My point of view is coming from a newbie. if it is the first time hearing and coming across these websites most will leave and never return.
> 
> imagine if you had to email one of the vendors on amazon or ebay just to order because they did not set it up right. would you do it. Big guy or little guy, you do not have the benefit of face to face interaction for internet sales. you have to develop trust in the first few seconds when someone visits your site.


I totally get it bk having been there in the last few years, I've seen it from the big and little guys and it's frustrating either way.

I can excuse a website that isn't set up right, because, let's be honest here, even the big companies screw up orders from time to time. What isn't acceptable to me is crappy customer service and communication....

The folks I listed above? Great communication! Folks I would NEVER order from again? Certain vendors on ebay and NPC Hobbies to name a couple. ZERO communication or just downright rude, or both.

Those of us not lucky enough to have a hometown shop have to hunt around and do some searching. Fortunately for us, this is a phenomenal site with some of the best folks in hobby looking through here daily to help us all out.

I've seen many a newbie come on here looking for something and have 5 guys offer to send them stuff or volunteer to go over their cars for them.

Sites like this are the next best thing to the corner hobby store... And people new to the hobby will find it if they make a small effort to search for a few minutes. Heck, if you are going online to find an address for a local hobby shop and don't find one, why wouldn't you take one more step and do a search for sites like this?


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## SuperFist (Aug 7, 2005)

00'HO said:


> *And of course for the real frustrated folks, for free you can play
> *
> Beat the horse
> :beatdeadhorse:
> ...


I like loping my Lama.









__________________


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## riggenracer (Jul 3, 2008)

"A Florida shop had an Ho program on a large 6 lane Tomy track. The Tomy was replaced w/a longer 6 lane custom routed track. The racing interest ended soon after the new track arrived & it was sold. I do hope there are many raceways having successful HO programs. My 6 lane Tomy was purchased by very nice owners of a NJ raceway & I certainly wish the best for them."

I think I have that last track. The shop was in Spring Hill. 
http://hcslots.com/community/fbchscorpiontrack.html

And just a note to further prove how hard it is for an HO shop to stay open: Scale Auto had a retail shop but closed it a few years back. If a manufacturer has a hard time showing a profit with a storefront... .


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## neorules (Oct 20, 2006)

It looks like the obvious is being overlooked. Create new racers-- give them a reason to race. Tap into the competitive nature of man. No business mentioned has done that in many years. We see the result.


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

I gotta agree with Neo. Young racers are the key.
It's in our culture to buy them anything they want, they just havent seen slot cars.
All this is well documented in this thread...
http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=285309

I'm on a mission to get as many hooked as possible with this...
http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=290693

Hey, we gotta do what we can.

Rich
www.northtexasslotcars.com :thumbsup:


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## A/FX Nut (May 28, 2004)

Got a place called Thazer Raceway around here. He's been going for years. He's moved changed locations a few times. 

I like the idea of a combined hobby shop with something else. Use to be a gentleman "Brian I think was his name." who used to come to the Midwest Show. He was in a bowling alley, stated on his business card. Lots of T-Jet, A/FX, and MT parts.

Randy.


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## 00'HO (Nov 19, 2004)

*Raceway/Beauty Parlor*



SwamperGene said:


> lol
> 
> We had a guy that had talked about splitting a building with his wife who would operate a beauty parlor in her half...I don't think it would be appropriate to mention the name everyone pretty much immediately thought of for the combined venture.


--------------------------------------------------------
OMG Gene, a beauty parlor/raceway would be a disaster.

The raceway gets us away from the better half.
It is therapy for men, please, no woman apply.
We evolved into an adult mens raceway.
The hotties can visit and put cars on the track....


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## 00'HO (Nov 19, 2004)

*Lama Loper*



SuperFist said:


> I like loping my Lama.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


---------------------------------------------

We know SF...... and she loves you.....


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## slotcarman12078 (Oct 3, 2008)

Have you ever caught a whiff of the toxic fumes a beauty parlor emits? :freak: You guys would need respirators just to run a few laps!! :tongue:

P.S. Fingernail places are just as bad too!! :drunk:


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

slotcarman12078 said:


> Have you ever caught a whiff of the toxic fumes a beauty parlor emits? :freak: You guys would need respirators just to run a few laps!! :tongue:
> 
> P.S. Fingernail places are just as bad too!! :drunk:


Heck, one arc of a shoe, and the whole place may explode!


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## resinmonger (Mar 5, 2008)

slotcarman12078 said:


> Have you ever caught a whiff of the toxic fumes a beauty parlor emits? :freak: You guys would need respirators just to run a few laps!! :tongue:
> 
> P.S. Fingernail places are just as bad too!! :drunk:


Have you ever gone in a hair or nail place just to wiff? Try it with _Sunshine of Your Love_ and _Inna Gadda Da Vida _in the iPod... :freak:

On the other hand, do you shout "I love the smell of lacquer in the morning; it smell like victory!" after you finish painting a batch of bodies? :drunk:


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## slotcarman12078 (Oct 3, 2008)

I try to vent that stuff out the window, Russ. It seems completely absurd to me that some TMs will sit in one of those salons for over an hour and not smell a thing. Then they'll sit in a nail salon for 2 hours getting their nails done with the same result. If I start shaking a spray bomb she starts complaining about the smell... and I haven't even taken the cap off!!! :drunk:


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

slotcarman12078 said:


> I try to vent that stuff out the window, Russ. It seems completely absurd to me that some TMs will sit in one of those salons for over an hour and not smell a thing. Then they'll sit in a nail salon for 2 hours getting their nails done with the same result. If I start shaking a spray bomb she starts complaining about the smell... and I haven't even taken the cap off!!! :drunk:


 
lol _that's_ funny.


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

I close the doors and windows of the slotcave; then huff as much as I possibly can and still get the stink eye.


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## joegri (Feb 13, 2008)

try the gold spraybomb it,s the color of choice from the dudes that hangout under the overpass!!


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

Brake cleaner rules.


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## Dyno Dom (May 26, 2007)

Riggenracer, isn't Spring Hill towards the Gulf side? The track I was referring
to was in a raceway on US1 in Port St. Lucie. There were at least two,
possibly three, 1/24th tracks & the HO layout. The owners were public school
teachers & also taught music lessons in seperate rooms within the facility.
If the track you have is the same one, maybe there was an additional
owner for the layout?


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## bemoore (Dec 23, 2008)

The problem is that HO racers are cheap. The cars are tiny, so they typically think that the cost of the cars (and the racing) should be tiny. Well, cheap cars & racing don't pay the rent. Regardless of the size of the cars, a commercial raceway has to bring in enough money to put food on the table. Not scale food, real food, paid with for with 1:1 dollars. So raceways have to price their products & services at a point where they can stay in business. And while the large scale guys have no problem buying new stuff every couple of weeks in the never ending arms race that is racing, HO racers are much less willing. There's also a small number of marketplaces where a raceway has even a chace of working. A small town of 5000 won't have enough interest. A city of 5 million will have enough interest, but retail space is too expensive. Another problem is that many of us have already been burned by raceway closings, leaving us with boxes of useless cars, controllers, and parts. HO has the advantage of being small enough to run in basements or garages, but that is a disadvantage for raceways. A raceway has to offer something you can't get in your basement. A WOW factor. But a WOW factor means a big track that takes up a lot of real estate, and probably won't pay for itself. At this point, I actually PREFER club (basement/garage) racing. If the track owner is dedicated, I feel that the club has more stability than a raceway. I think that the adage "build it and they will come" is true, BUT... you will have to build it and basically let people race for free. The only clubs I've seen that were successful had free racing.


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## bemoore (Dec 23, 2008)

SwamperGene said:


> #1 is racing dictated by the racers, #2 is racing dictated by the shop...they are pretty much opposites really.
> 
> What happens when the racers want to run something the shop doesn't, or worse yet, won't carry? Or the shop just blew a wad on brand X tires to find out the racers want to run brand Y. Unfortunately it never remains simple. :freak:
> 
> The magic place lies in compromises (ie understanding _intentions_ of rules) made by both sides to promote fair racing and to keep the programs from stagnating...all the while allowing everyone to share new products and technologies for the benefit of the entire hobby, from manufacturers to shops to racers and everyone in between.


I don't think that they are opposites. If the shop carries what the racers want, then everyone is happy. However, racers will be fickle. They will SAY they want X, but halfway through the season, they will want Y, while the raceway still has a wall full of X. If the raceway allows Y to be legal, they just obsoleted their wall of X.


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## hbfatty (Dec 7, 2009)

*Just North Of Me....BIG HO DRAG SPEEDS and TIMES!!*

There is a fellow up the road from me in Norfolk, Nebraska that holds pretty much the HO drag records. On his 17 1/2 foot strip he turns an actual 116 mph with an actual et of .169......that's less than 2 tenths of a second. These aren't scale times or speeds but actual ones. They are so fast you can't even see them!!!!! Thought you'd enjoy knowing that there are some really creative HO guys out there.


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

bemoore said:


> I don't think that they are opposites. If the shop carries what the racers want, then everyone is happy. However, racers will be fickle. They will SAY they want X, but halfway through the season, they will want Y, while the raceway still has a wall full of X. If the raceway allows Y to be legal, they just obsoleted their wall of X.


That is only reinforcing what I said, the end result is racers and shops at odds with each other. 

Racers aren't so much fickle as they are simply varied as far as what they like to run. The problem to start with is that _a shop should not be running points series_ featuring the same class(es) at every outing. That should be left to clubs with specific interests in certain cars/brands/whatever, with the shop acting solely as a host. Outside of hosting club races, a shop needs to mix it up to prevent stagnation and promote sales of various manufacturer's products, especially cars. What I've found over the years is that most racers will participate across classes provided that the participation is mutual, so the shop's job is to promote racing in general and not only racing according to available products on the wall. By doing so the shop can expose a wider range of racers to all products whether they carry them in house or not. By paying attention to what the racers are saying/doing, the shop can then make smarter inventory decisions.


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

The problem with HO at a commercial level is that the entire ecosystem that spanned from the starter sets under beds, to home basement tracks, to local basement/garage aligned clubs, to commercially supported and professionally run raceways has pretty much collapsed. The reasons for this are widespread and many, some related to the hobby and some not, but the bottom line is that you cannot support the pinnacle level racing venues when the underlying infrastructure that feeds it is no longer in place. 

At the core of the ecosystem is the relationship between 1:1 racing and slot car racing. If people are not excited about 1:1 racing then they will not be excited about slot car racing. Slot car racing has many of the same dynamics that 1:1 racing has, and slot car racing provides a way for anyone to experience the excitement and challenges of 1:1 motor racing. Slot car racing is real racing, and anyone who has ever done it understands the adrenaline rush, shaking knees, and sweating brow that comes along with racing a slot car. It's as real as it gets without putting your body on the line.

We could lament forever about what HO slot car racing should be, could be, or used to be, or we can talk about how we can make it better. The latter is a discussion that I would love to get involved with. But to start it I think we need to cast aside some of the stereotypes and recognize that the effort needs to be put into building the excitement at the lower levels. We need to use this new found infinite communications capability that we have at our disposal to help facilitate positive change through the promotion and exposure of the grass roots efforts. 

Focusing solely on the pinnacle, the so called "national affiliations" or trying to proceed in a manner that does not recognize the reality of the current state of the hobby is not serving the greater good. Using the communication medium to attack or promote a false reality or selfish motivations is not serving the greater good. Meaningful progress can only occur when all the baggage and personal self interests are cast aside and we decide to establish a new reality that represents where the hobby is today and how it can grow into the future. Only after we've laid down a solid foundation can we start to talk about what it takes to support the top tier of the hobby/sport that a successful commercial HO raceway represents. 

Finally, I have seen the magic at the commercial level, but only in flashes. Sustaining it seems to be the hard part. When it works it usually comes down to having the right people committed to supporting their fellow racers, above all else, regardless of equipment or race classes or affiliations or personal agendas. When the "us" is more important than the "me" anything is possible. Knowing that it can be done keeps me inspired. Capturing that magic, and sustaining it, that's the big challenge.


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## bemoore (Dec 23, 2008)

SwamperGene said:


> That is only reinforcing what I said, the end result is racers and shops at odds with each other.
> 
> Racers aren't so much fickle as they are simply varied as far as what they like to run. The problem to start with is that _a shop should not be running points series_ featuring the same class(es) at every outing. That should be left to clubs with specific interests in certain cars/brands/whatever, with the shop acting solely as a host. Outside of hosting club races, a shop needs to mix it up to prevent stagnation and promote sales of various manufacturer's products, especially cars. What I've found over the years is that most racers will participate across classes provided that the participation is mutual, so the shop's job is to promote racing in general and not only racing according to available products on the wall. By doing so the shop can expose a wider range of racers to all products whether they carry them in house or not. By paying attention to what the racers are saying/doing, the shop can then make smarter inventory decisions.


Maybe commercial raceways SHOULD only be facilitating club racing, but the times I've seen it happen are rare. Mostly, they want to promote racing that sells cars & parts. The raceways I've been to DO poll the racers to see what they want to run, but then you often get the polls heavily weighted by the "speed crazed morons" for whom cost is no object. I have not seen a situation where supporting club racing is enough to keep the lights on.


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