# Aurora Armature disassembly...



## lenny (Feb 29, 2000)

who has any insight on how to remove the bottom bushing from an aurora arm? Preferable without ruining the shaft or the bushing?

TIA

Dan


----------



## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

hopefully sgrig will be around to tell what he knows. I don't know myself, but have full confidence in sgrig's ability and how to explain it.


----------



## mowyang (Mar 24, 2008)

I think the "bushing" and the shaft are actually one piece.


----------



## 1scalevolvo (Feb 5, 2004)

mowyang said:


> I think the "bushing" and the shaft are actually one piece.


 :thumbsup:Time to get out the lathe! 

Neal :dude:


----------



## mowyang (Mar 24, 2008)

1scalevolvo said:


> :thumbsup:Time to get out the lathe!
> 
> Neal :dude:


Yeah, after I posted that, I realized how unlikely it was that it really was one piece!


----------



## lenny (Feb 29, 2000)

mowyang said:


> Yeah, after I posted that, I realized how unlikely it was that it really was one piece!


you might be right, though... I just destroyed an arm trying to pry that bottom bushing off, assuming it was a pressed on bushing. So I went at it from the other end. Unfortunately I completely mangled the shaft but I have enough of it left to see that it might be a solid unit.

Knowing what I know now, I will try to disassemble one more 'delicately' and post a pic of the shaft for anyone interested.

A quick question:

Are there any issues with the AW arm spinning on the shaft? This isn't a witch hunt, I'm just asking....

Thank you,

Dan


----------



## Ralphthe3rd (Feb 24, 2011)

I sure wish Sgrig would chime in on this thread....it's right up HIS alley


----------



## plymouth71 (Dec 14, 2009)

I haven't seen one myself, but then again I'm no hot rodder...


----------



## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

Dan, there have been reports of AW stacks turning on the shaft. 
I haven't had one, but I know three people who have.
one of the reasons sgrig only uses original Aurora armatures for rewinds.
Dan, we need commutator plates. help! please!
if you could just point us in the right direction.
I would really appreciate any help you can provide.
of course if we could buy directly from you, that would be super too. 
thanx in advance for your kind consideration.


----------



## lenny (Feb 29, 2000)

alpink said:


> Dan, there have been reports of AW stacks turning on the shaft.
> I haven't had one, but I know three people who have.
> one of the reasons sgrig only uses original Aurora armatures for rewinds.
> Dan, we need commutator plates. help! please!
> ...


a comm plate for this armature is just a very simple printed circuit board... with that being said, you could probably make these yourself and along those lines make custom plates with different timing configurations, which would be cool. Al, you might have just created your own cottage industry supplying specialized comm plates for different situations...


----------



## JordanZ870 (Nov 25, 2004)

First or second release AW Tjet, I had an arm loose on its shaft.
It made crazy revs but hardly moved the chassis! That same chassis was warped so the rt front wheel was off of the track.


----------



## slotcarman12078 (Oct 3, 2008)

And by the looks of things, Joez's cat thinks it was funny or something!! :lol:


----------



## 1scalevolvo (Feb 5, 2004)

lenny said:


> a comm plate for this armature is just a very simple printed circuit board... with that being said, you could probably make these yourself and along those lines make custom plates with different timing configurations, which would be cool. Al, you might have just created your own cottage industry supplying specialized comm plates for different situations...


While I grasp the idea of " Timing " on a gasoline engine,I must confess I am a bit lost concerning the concept of "Timing " with regards to an electric motor. Perhaps someone can help me.

Neal:dude:


----------



## lenny (Feb 29, 2000)

if it's OK to post a link, here's a pretty good thread about timing:
http://www.slotcarillustrated.com/portal/forums/showthread.php?t=36690


----------



## tjetsgrig (Nov 1, 2009)

There is no bushing on an Aurora shaft, it's all one piece. AW motors have the bushing and I use my mini diagonal cutters and gear puller to remove them.


----------



## tjetsgrig (Nov 1, 2009)

lenny said:


> you might be right, though... I just destroyed an arm trying to pry that bottom bushing off, assuming it was a pressed on bushing. So I went at it from the other end. Unfortunately I completely mangled the shaft but I have enough of it left to see that it might be a solid unit.
> 
> Knowing what I know now, I will try to disassemble one more 'delicately' and post a pic of the shaft for anyone interested.
> 
> ...



Dan,
The Aurura shafts knock out from the top as one piece, I have an anvil with a hole drilled and use a brass drift. One quick smack and they pop out. You need to remove the wire first. Yes, all kinds of proplems with the stack spinning on the AW shafts!!! Not good rewind material!!

Jim Sgrig


----------



## lenny (Feb 29, 2000)

tjetsgrig said:


> Dan,
> The Aurura shafts knock out from the top as one piece, I have an anvil with a hole drilled and use a brass drift. One quick smack and they pop out. You need to remove the wire first. Yes, all kinds of proplems with the stack spinning on the AW shafts!!! Not good rewind material!!
> 
> Jim Sgrig


thanks, Jim!


----------



## Ralphthe3rd (Feb 24, 2011)

BTW- Dan(lenny), how is *YOUR* Armature(s) coming along? Have you gotten prototypes yet for testing ?


----------



## lenny (Feb 29, 2000)

Ralphthe3rd said:


> BTW- Dan(lenny), how is *YOUR* Armature(s) coming along? Have you gotten prototypes yet for testing ?


not impressed with the assembly/QC...


----------



## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

lenny said:


> not impressed with the assembly/QC...


Strangely, er maybe not so much; I'm comforted by that comment. 

So refreshing to hear in a world gone upside down; where we've been asked to accept less than par, and then told like it or lump it. Needless to say, I lumped it. Not one plug nickel...ever!  

Now that I've saved all my allowance, I'll gladly spring for quality! :thumbsup:


----------



## lenny (Feb 29, 2000)

tjetsgrig said:


> Dan,
> The Aurura shafts knock out from the top as one piece, I have an anvil with a hole drilled and use a brass drift. One quick smack and they pop out. You need to remove the wire first. Yes, all kinds of proplems with the stack spinning on the AW shafts!!! Not good rewind material!!
> 
> Jim Sgrig


when you re-assemble your rewinds, what do you use for an upper bushing


----------



## tjetsgrig (Nov 1, 2009)

lenny said:


> when you re-assemble your rewinds, what do you use for an upper bushing


The only time I knock the shafts out is if I'm converting an XLerators 4lam stack to run in a standard chassis, I swap out the geared shaft for a standard shaft. No bushing needed. Press into place, solder, rewind and install. The shoulder on the upper portion of the shaft rides on the gearplate, this is your "thrust" surface.

JS


----------



## lenny (Feb 29, 2000)

Bill Hall said:


> Strangely, er maybe not so much; I'm comforted by that comment.
> 
> So refreshing to hear in a world gone upside down; where we've been asked to accept less than par, and then told like it or lump it. Needless to say, I lumped it. Not one plug nickel...ever!
> 
> Now that I've saved all my allowance, I'll gladly spring for quality! :thumbsup:


I could have an armature tomorrow, but I don't like the comm plate and the assembly of my samples had too much runout of both the plate and the stack.

I've already paid for the tooling for the stack laminations.

the company won't change the comm plate, so I'm considering having those made here... It's just a simple printed circuit board that I could probably make myself if I had to.

I could also just buy the parts and have them shipped here for winding and assembly, but the winding would most likely be by hand, so that get pretty labor intensive and the cost would likely be too high.

So here I sit with decisions to make and not many options.


----------



## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

I agree with Bill. I'd rather not have a substandard product. I'm certainly willing to wait until something of quality can be made available. if it never happens, I'm no farther behind than I am right now.
Dan, thanx for giving it your best effort.


----------



## tjetsgrig (Nov 1, 2009)

Hey Dan! Just want to let you know I have a very intimate relationship with the pancake motor. If you feel comfortable enough to send me one, I'd be more than happy to give you my feedback! Pros and cons, maybe that will help you make a decision. Let me know!!


Jim Sgrig


----------



## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

Yer a class act Jim!


----------



## tjd241 (Jan 25, 2004)

*Wondering Dan...*

Are there multiple foreign/domestic vendors to sift through when you are looking to get bids on the jobs you are looking into? ... or do you REALLY have to beat the bushes to find them, explain/pitch the product, etc? Just curious as to how many companies exist that are really up to the task and how many would like to get the work, but could ultimately never pass muster on the quality front.


----------



## lenny (Feb 29, 2000)

tjd241 said:


> Are there multiple foreign/domestic vendors to sift through when you are looking to get bids on the jobs you are looking into? ... or do you REALLY have to beat the bushes to find them, explain/pitch the product, etc? Just curious as to how many companies exist that are really up to the task and how many would like to get the work, but could ultimately never pass muster on the quality front.


The biggest 'immediate' hurdle is satisfying the minimum order requirement. 

Finding a company that will make this odd armature is a struggle since they don't want to touch anything under 50,000 pieces. A year from now, 50,000 won't be an issue. Right now, it is.

I found a few suppliers that can and will make this but one of them uses an inferior material for the comm plate. so I asked about changing it. you would think I was asking for democracy in China...

The samples I got from this company are OK, but they have some issues. Like the comm plate. Like the runout issues. 

I would assemble these here if I could get a winding machine.


----------



## Joe65SkylarkGS (Feb 15, 2010)

:jest:LMAO!!! Hey Dan, Jim has been called a winding machine!!!! Among other things lol!!!! 

I had to witness him doing this and when I went to his place once I demanded a demonstration and got it!!! This guy is a winding machine!!!!

Absolutley insane how it's done!!!!

Jim, give us some pics of your mad scientist's lab! :freak:


----------



## lenny (Feb 29, 2000)

Joe65SkylarkGS said:


> :jest:LMAO!!! Hey Dan, Jim has been called a winding machine!!!! Among other things lol!!!!
> 
> I had to witness him doing this and when I went to his place once I demanded a demonstration and got it!!! This guy is a winding machine!!!!
> 
> ...


I just thought of something... there are 'bobbin winders' for sewing machines. I'll bet something like that could be modified to wind a pancake motor stack...


----------



## Joe65SkylarkGS (Feb 15, 2010)

lenny said:


> I just thought of something... there are 'bobbin winders' for sewing machines. I'll bet something like that could be modified to wind a pancake motor stack...


Hmm, I like your thinking. If anyone can do this mod, I bet Jim can!!!

How's the Galaxie body coming along?

Any luck on your precious molds bud?


----------



## lenny (Feb 29, 2000)

Joe65SkylarkGS said:


> Hmm, I like your thinking. If anyone can do this mod, I bet Jim can!!!
> 
> How's the Galaxie body coming along?
> 
> Any luck on your precious molds bud?


the factory lost the Galaxie sample... no luck on getting my old molds yet...


----------



## JVerb (Oct 6, 2006)

Dan check your PMs.

Peace,
Verb


----------



## guinnesspeanut (Sep 25, 2009)

*Reversing a Tjet armature to XLerators chassis*

From what I've heard, it's a bit rough removing an XLerators armature, grinding it down, and using it in a Tjet... but has anyone tried the reverse? I just got a dozen bare XLerator chassis and would like to see them run. Last time I set up a track, I took over a 2 car garage. I set up 2 tracks, using all of the same pieces but in a different configuration, so they'd run parralell close to the halfway point, then again for the final stretch. Thank the powers that be for little kids bringing down 8 sets from the attic. I ended up using a Lionel train transformer and it worked like a charm. I didn't use the intersections that time, but think I will for the next one. I should've taken a photo or 2, but really hate cameras. The shaft height makes a difference when you're trying to put the arm in a Tjet, but if you upped the springs a bit under the bushing, and used new bushings, I don't think the shorter shaft will cause a problem. Eventually you'll need to replace the bushings, but they can be reused in Tjets.. Next time somebody removes an XLerator armature, I'd love to know what happens if you use a Tjet arm in the XLerator chassis. I have an awesome workshop, but it's for furniture making, not modifying tiny chassis..


----------



## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

*Even bumble bees can fly*

Pert near anything is possible in slot car land...Having experimented with the Xcellerator to T-jet morph the reverse might seem easily done.

My first misgiving would be that the Xcellerator armature pinion is quite tall. Looks more like a Porsche oil pump gear. Just spitballing mind you, but I'm thinking it's for a reason; given the huge amount of flex, slop, and carnage that can occour in that .... er ..... uh....gear plate contraption (levitation system) for the earlier pancake version. So my first concern would be the arm pinion to idler mesh.

Secondly, very few T-jet or AFX armatures spool up like a good quad unless you've been to Yellow Jacket land. There would be an immediate buzz kill performance wise even with big boy magnets.

Certainly a doable project, but I cant see it as being a practical solution for renovating your motorless Xcellerators.


----------

