# 1/350 TOS shuttle bay... they got it so right!



## TrekFX (Apr 15, 2004)

I'm just amazed at the level of attention paid to getting details right. I taped together the bay and tacked together the shuttle to see how they line up with ye olde "stock shot" and it looks really good. Kudos again to all involved!

I also wondered how a true 1/350 figure would look next to the stock kit parts. The shuttle would be about 20 feet full-scale, a little small but in the context of the bay I think it'll work! I employed my favorite 1/350 Preiser merchant sailor, "Tom". He's playing the part of "honey, you forgot your keys..."

The temporary assembly is a complete hack job, for demonstration purposes only!


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## Dr. Brad (Oct 5, 1999)

That looks great. The figure is a little out of scale, but still, I really like what you've done there! Thanks for posting!


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## Nova Designs (Oct 10, 2000)

The only sad part about building the kit with the shuttle bay in it is that you can't get that reverse angle view like on the show. It looks great!


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## TrekFX (Apr 15, 2004)

I'm being stubborn with the scale of any figures I might use... I really want them to convey the true scale of the ship as a whole. I'll conjur up some excuse for why the guy in the bay looks like the little brother of the monster from "The Galileo Seven!" But, I think the view into the bay with the door sections in place sort of allows a sense of forced perspective (or at least limits visual clues.) The full-scale mockup with live actors was undersize anyway, so there's some continuity there as well.


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## Prowler901 (Jun 27, 2005)

ParaGrafix sells an add-on photo-etch set that includes two different scales of people. One is scaled to look better in the shuttle bay. Here's a link to the set.


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

That old stock angle looks so good, I might leave the shuttle bay out of the kit and make a little shadow box diorama on its own, looking out the open doors into space.


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## robiwon (Oct 20, 2006)

Question on the PE from ParaGrafix, if the bridge and shuttle bay are slightly undersized where would you use the "larger" 1/350 scale figures? The PE comes with shadow casters for the windows already.


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## kdaracal (Jan 24, 2009)

robiwon said:


> Question on the PE from ParaGrafix, if the bridge and shuttle bay are slightly undersized where would you use the "larger" 1/350 scale figures? The PE comes with shadow casters for the windows already.


I think Paul is just giving us plenty of extra options for those who want to fiddle with various ideas. I love it when the aftermarket guys do this. It opens worlds of versatility and gets our diorama juices flowing. Henry, at TSDS does this, too. They listen and hear our concerns/ideas and produce that _*little bit more*_. 

:wave:


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## jaws62666 (Mar 25, 2009)

robiwon said:


> Question on the PE from ParaGrafix, if the bridge and shuttle bay are slightly undersized where would you use the "larger" 1/350 scale figures? The PE comes with shadow casters for the windows already.


Use them in the bridge if you are displaying it with the clear dome. That Is what I am doing


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## TrekFX (Apr 15, 2004)

kdaracal said:


> I think Paul is just giving us plenty of extra options for those who want to fiddle with various ideas. I love it when the aftermarket guys do this. It opens worlds of versatility and gets our diorama juices flowing. Henry, at TSDS does this, too. They listen and hear our concerns/ideas and produce that _*little bit more*_.
> 
> :wave:


With great options come great decisions! That shuttlebay could be really decked-out (sorry...) and make a great sideshow display.

I wonder if you could use a mix of 1-350 and 1-400 figures (like the large/small in the Paragrafix set) for forced perspective... smaller guys at the far end and/or closer to walls and doorways.

If somebody misses the forced perspective aspect and just wonders why there are different-sized figures (self-sealing stem bolt counters) just tell them the smaller ones are Ferengi. Large Ferengi.


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## robiwon (Oct 20, 2006)

Ah, forced perspective! Didn't think about that. It was early!


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

Great pics, TrekFX!

Thanks!


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

Yes, very cool!


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

TrekFX said:


> I'm being stubborn with the scale of any figures I might use... I really want them to convey the true scale of the ship as a whole. I'll conjur up some excuse for why the guy in the bay looks like the little brother of the monster from "The Galileo Seven!" But, I think the view into the bay with the door sections in place sort of allows a sense of forced perspective (or at least limits visual clues.) The full-scale mockup with live actors was undersize anyway, so there's some continuity there as well.


I'm willing to bet the guy is properly scaled.


I think the problem is that the shuttle was probably created to 1/350th scale at the on-screen stated length of 24 feet.

Whereas for a shuttlecraft to hold everything we saw on screen it would have to be just under 30 feet. Several feet longer then 24 feet and a bit taller and wider too.

As a result, to make him look right he'd have to be a little bit smaller then a true 1/350th scale. 

Which would probably be difficult.


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## TrekFX (Apr 15, 2004)

Yes, "Tom" scales out perfectly to around 5' 9". The included shuttle is scaled very close to the slightly-compressed construction of the live-action full-size shuttle exterior. The doorways in the shuttlebay walls are just a little short for comfort to a true 1-350 figure, as are the toll booths. (That's my pet name for 'em! Actually, the ones right at the exit are a little bigger than the ones on the interior walls.) But playing it like the original show, it's all close enough to work, as long as I keep the people a short distance from other spatial clues and let forced-perspective and visual ambiguity work their mojo!

There's really no "right" or "wrong" because compromises must be made one way or the other. This is just my preference, keeping the human figures at-scale and making the other stuff bend a bit! Treating them like SAG members...


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

TrekFX said:


> Yes, "Tom" scales out perfectly to around 5' 9". The included shuttle is scaled very close to the slightly-compressed construction of the live-action full-size shuttle exterior. The doorways in the shuttlebay walls are just a little short for comfort to a true 1-350 figure, as are the toll booths. (That's my pet name for 'em! Actually, the ones right at the exit are a little bigger than the ones on the interior walls.) But playing it like the original show, it's all close enough to work, as long as I keep the people a short distance from other spatial clues and let forced-perspective and visual ambiguity work their mojo!
> 
> There's really no "right" or "wrong" because compromises must be made one way or the other. This is just my preference, keeping the human figures at-scale and making the other stuff bend a bit! Treating them like SAG members...


Makes sense to me.

Question is, are there any premade figures just slightly smaller then 1/350th scale out there?

I'm guessing something in the range of about 20-25% smaller would be just about perfect.


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## Frank2056 (Mar 23, 2007)

Chuck_P.R. said:


> Question is, are there any premade figures just slightly smaller then 1/350th scale out there?


Other than PE figures, Preiser makes a set of 18 1/400 figures (Preiser 89400 1/400 Airline Personnel and Travellers.) Not 25% but 12.5% smaller; might be close enough.

In 1/350, I think the killer set will be the 3D printed figures from Northstar in particula, this set.

As a size reference, here's a repost of my 1/350 - 1/400 figure comparison. L to R:

1 -L'Arsenal 2-Presier 89350 sailors (painted) 3,4-two Presier figures from their 89350 set unpainted, sold by Wiener Modellbau Manufactur (one is the unpainted version of TrekFX's "Spock in a toque" - see other thread) 5,6-two figures from the Preiser 89400 set 7-one pathetic 1/350 - 1/400 PE figure.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

Frank2056 said:


> Other than PE figures, Preiser makes a set of 18 1/400 figures (Preiser 89400 1/400 Airline Personnel and Travellers.) Not 25% but 12.5% smaller; might be close enough.
> 
> In 1/350, I think the killer set will be the 3D printed figures from Northstar in particula, this set.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the photo, Frank2056. :thumbsup:

So the last one on the right is 1/400th?

Compared to the 1/350th "Spock in a toque" something that size might work perfectly in the shuttlebay.

So I guess other 1/400th scale figures are readily available?


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## Frank2056 (Mar 23, 2007)

Chuck_P.R. said:


> So the last one on the right is 1/400th?


The PE and the two plastic ones next to it (from the Preiser 89400) are 1/400. The 89400 set can be expensive, but widely available. The L'Arsenal resin figures have big hats and can be (carefully) trimmed to get a figure about 1/400 in size.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

Frank2056 said:


> The PE and the two plastic ones next to it (from the Preiser 89400) are 1/400. The 89400 set can be expensive, but widely available. The L'Arsenal resin figures have big hats and can be (carefully) trimmed to get a figure about 1/400 in size.


Thanks for the great info!

I looked in TrekFX's 1/350th E Bridge thread and it seems to me that 1:400th might do better there as well.

The 1:350th figure looks like he'd need a shoehorn to get in and out of Kirk's chair.


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## TrekFX (Apr 15, 2004)

Actually, I compared the plan view of the 1-350 bridge part to a number of reliable full-scale dimensions and they match pretty well. So I suspect the furniture is a bit more tiny. I'll check a bit more to correlate.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

I have no doubt that the shuttlebay is dimensionally accurate vs the shuttlecraft. I just think that the shuttle that we are seeing in the bay is probably dimensionally accurate(got a caliper handy?) to the exterior mockup which probably was 24 feet long.

As I think MGagen pointed out way back in 2004, it's very likely that it was built as a 3/4 scale stagepiece, a common practice back then for set pieces.

This was usually due to expense, but in the case of the Gallileo, another consideration was that it was built out of state and had to be trucked in on a trailer for hundreds of miles.

There is further evidence that they knew the exterior mock-up was undersized in the way they tended to film the ship. Especially in The Gallileo Seven episode.

There is one time I think they messed up and showed a dead-on portside full shot of the ship with Spock walking up and entering from a distance. Not only can you tell the ship is too small for the interior set seen in most episodes, 
but the shuttle even looks like it dips a bit when he gets on! (That scene is when Spock first boards the Shuttlecraft in The Immunity Syndrome.)

There is a good chance that when the writers wrote Kirk's line about a "24 foot" shuttlecraft they simply had somebody simply measure the exterior mock-up, thus giving us the problem with the dialogue.

However it happened, the exterior mockup would have to be at least 29.5 to 32 feet to believably hold everything seen in the interior sets.

So even though both the 1/350th R2 shuttlebay and shuttle may be dimensionally correct in terms of a 24 foot "canon" length shuttlecraft;

your 1/350th figure clearly would have trouble having six of his friends join him in that shuttle!

It would get real uncomfortable to have seven of them in there, don't you think?


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## TrekFX (Apr 15, 2004)

That's why I'm issuing a restraining order to keep all humanoid figures some TBD distance from the shuttle. Maybe I'll tell them a Klingon is stuck to one of the chairs...

When I first measured the kit shuttle (w/ digital calipers) I came up with a full-grown length of about 20 feet, so it may be even more undersized still.

I've also experimented with larger shuttle mock-ups. They look great with the figures, even though it starts to make the bay seem smaller. Since we never see an exterior angle in the original FX shots, we never really get a frame of reference for that anyway so I'm fine with that too.. The view angle from outside is very constrained by the doors as well.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

TrekFX said:


> That's why I'm issuing a restraining order to keep all humanoid figures some TBD distance from the shuttle. Maybe I'll tell them a Klingon is stuck to one of the chairs...
> 
> When I first measured the kit shuttle (w/ digital calipers) I came up with a full-grown length of about 20 feet, so it may be even more undersized still.
> 
> I've also experimented with larger shuttle mock-ups. They look great with the figures, even though it starts to make the bay seem smaller. Since we never see an exterior angle in the original FX shots, we never really get a frame of reference for that anyway so I'm fine with that too.. The view angle from outside is very constrained by the doors as well.


20 feet long? Wow.

I didn't expect that.

I guess compromises had to be made in order to get everything in there and still have a model that was an accurate 1/350th size to a 947 foot length.

But necessary compromises aside, it all works together beautifully.

Your spacing method may be the most practical.

1:400 figures seem to be hard to find in anything close to Trek style attire.
Heck the line of figures Frank2056 mentioned I've either come up with no matches, or in two cases I found websites that carry them but are sold out.

Nowhere near an immediate issue for me though, as it will be awhile before I buy a kit, and there is a good chance I'll only populate the bridge.

Thanks for the info on the real world shuttlecraft sizing.

I hope you are able to find a solution you're totally okay with both on the bridge and the shuttlebay. :thumbsup:


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