# What are A123 LiPo ??



## TeamGoodwrench (Oct 14, 2002)

What are the A123 LiPo packs and how are they different from the Orion 3200 carbon ?? 

For oval racing do we even need to worry about them ? 

Thx.


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## swtour (Oct 8, 2001)

The A123 cells are cylindrical <spelling?> cells that are a little lower voltage than a regular LiPo cell. (If I remember correctly each A123 cell is 3.3 volts)

They are a very stable cell, they now have a fairly wide variety of uses...including being used in large quantity to power some FULL SIZE electric cars and motor cycles.

They require an ever more specialized charger than a regular lipo.

They could have made a good battery for racing, but they won't compete with the Orion 3200's because a comparable size pack will be quite a bit lower voltage.


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## TeamGoodwrench (Oct 14, 2002)

swtour said:


> The A123 cells are cylindrical <spelling?> cells that are a little lower voltage than a regular LiPo cell. (If I remember correctly each A123 cell is 3.3 volts)
> 
> They are a very stable cell, they now have a fairly wide variety of uses...including being used in large quantity to power some FULL SIZE electric cars and motor cycles.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the excellent answer !

Will the Orion 3600 be the pack of choice then instead of the 3200 ?? Or have most tracks standardized on the 3200 for racing ?


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## swtour (Oct 8, 2001)

I don't know about MOST tracks, but for our 2008 season out here on the West Coast, I've opted to stay with the 3200's ... 

They are fairly well proven, durable, available...and not too out of line price wise. (When comparing to needing probably 3 NIMH vs. ONE 3200.)

Our guys who have made the switch I would say 99% love them. (I haven't heard anyone NOT like them, but you know you can never get 100% of anything these days)


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## RPM (Dec 20, 2004)

I believe the 2008 Snowbird National Race rules are going to set the standard with most clubs in the U.S. for R/C brushless/Lipo class rules. :thumbsup:


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## brian0525 (Jan 17, 2005)

RPM said:


> I believe the 2008 Snowbird National Race rules are going to set the standard with most clubs in the U.S. for R/C brushless/Lipo class rules. :thumbsup:


what do you mean only touring cars?


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## jflack (Apr 27, 2002)

A123 is not a LIPO battery, it is a lithium-ion battery. A123Systems is now one of the world's leading suppliers of high-power lithium ion batteries using our proprietary Nanophosphate™ technology to deliver previously unattainable levels of power, safety and life.

Dewalt uses them in cordless hand tools....

http://www.a123systems.com/

http://www.a123racing.com/


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## jflack (Apr 27, 2002)

I have a few packs, they don't self discharge or go boom.....I cycled them 248 sec 5.35v @ 35 amps.... I ran my oval car at Easley and made 4 mins with a 10.5 BL car easy.....The 2 cell packs are around 6 oz........


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## RPM (Dec 20, 2004)

brian0525 said:


> what do you mean only touring cars?


So far, rules for brushless motors, speedos and NO battery rules for Lipos in our area.

To me this seems to be one sided.
So I'm running nitro until technology catches up.


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## DUBS (Oct 30, 2007)

jflack said:


> A123 is not a LIPO battery, it is a lithium-ion battery. A123Systems is now one of the world's leading suppliers of high-power lithium ion batteries using our proprietary Nanophosphate™ technology to deliver previously unattainable levels of power, safety and life.
> 
> Dewalt uses them in cordless hand tools....
> 
> ...



This is very interesting!!!!! Where can I purchase one and how much? Will it fit into a T2007?


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## trailranger (Feb 9, 2006)

If space is a problem you can try 18650 cells. A123 are 26650 sized (AKA long C)
A 2-cell pack would be the same size as a 4-cell 2/3A pack in 18650 cells.

http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=3737


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## jflack (Apr 27, 2002)

No those packs are junk...only 15C less than 18 amp discharge.....JUNK!!!!!!




trailranger said:


> If space is a problem you can try 18650 cells. A123 are 26650 sized (AKA long C)
> A 2-cell pack would be the same size as a 4-cell 2/3A pack in 18650 cells.
> 
> http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=3737


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## jflack (Apr 27, 2002)

If you want the LI-ION PACKS goto http://www.a123racing.com/ click on performance racing packs at the top then starter Kit special to the right and it will take you to everything.....


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## 98Ron (Jun 14, 2004)

RPM, most of the tracks running oval lipo's seem to have adopted the guideline of hard case, 3200 mah, like the Orion Cabon, Jaxsonville is running an oval 21.5 lipo class, their car count is coming up and the guys are having a ton of fun.
They are also talking 13.5 and 17.5 lipo also. These same battery guidelines seem to being used in CA. and WI.

I hope Mr. Bean will have 21.5 lipo at Strickland and hopefully at the Speedway Spectacular.

If your corner of the rc world doesn't have guidelines get on your local promoter and have some defined.


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## Fl Flash (May 1, 2003)

98Ron said:


> I hope Mr. Bean will have 21.5 lipo at Strickland and hopefully at the Speedway Spectacular.


 Ron, Mike has said he will let the 21.5 lipo class to run Jan 5th at Strickland, about 8 of the Jax guys have said they will be there ( ME TOO cause my Lipo pack finaly showed up yesterday afternoon  ) so bring it if yours is ready!!!

I Hope its ran at the Speedway race also


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## XXT_James (Mar 8, 2008)

swtour said:


> The A123 cells are cylindrical <spelling?> cells that are a little lower voltage than a regular LiPo cell. (If I remember correctly each A123 cell is 3.3 volts)
> 
> They are a very stable cell, they now have a fairly wide variety of uses...including being used in large quantity to power some FULL SIZE electric cars and motor cycles.
> 
> ...


I was talkinig to a guy last night at the track and he has done some comparison with li-po's, li-ions, and li-mn's. he was telling me that the a123's stayed the coolest, and also etained the most voltage under load. Ya, they are .8v lower then a li-po or li-mn, but with a higher continuous voltage, they deliver very good performance. Not to mention the amount of cycles you get (around 800-1000), and the safety. I haven't bought mine yet (cash strapped), but plan on this system.


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## trailranger (Feb 9, 2006)

A123 may perform better under certian sistuations. But honestly I would wait on buying any A123's untill the "brick" packs are instores. They are to be the same size as the Orion 3200 but with 3300mah at 6.6V.

IMO I think these batteries could make very good cells for those on budgets. In mod these cells should hold up to many more cycles than LiPO. In stock these cells would offer the lower voltages to slow the speeds down for the newer guys. No sense in winding new motors to slow things down. Just cut the voltage a little, just like going from 6-cell to 4-cell.


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## jflack (Apr 27, 2002)

XXT_James said:


> I was talkinig to a guy last night at the track and he has done some comparison with li-po's, li-ions, and li-mn's. he was telling me that the a123's stayed the coolest, and also etained the most voltage under load. Ya, they are .8v lower then a li-po or li-mn, but with a higher continuous voltage, they deliver very good performance. Not to mention the amount of cycles you get (around 800-1000), and the safety. I haven't bought mine yet (cash strapped), but plan on this system.



I don't think so! The A123 pack are 2300s and cycle about 248 sec 5.67v at 35 amps But has a very flat voltage curve......A Lipo 7.4v 4000 SMC pack cycles 450 sec 7.34v at 35 amps........I agree the packs are very safe and could be a very good Oval battery! They will never run with a Lipo battery!


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## trailranger (Feb 9, 2006)

jflack, 

Yes LiPOs do perform well, Their sustained output in C is lower than than LiFePO4 chemistry cells can do, but LiPO capacity is higher than LiFePO4. When you compare similar capacity cells in both chemistrys the wattage output is about the same. The reason why the wattage is about the same is that even though A123 cells are displacing more amps, the voltage is lower. The problem with A123 cells is that they are about 1000mah behind other companies who make cells in the same size and chemistry.

LiPOs should be faster with the same motor due the extra voltage untill the amp load gets too high. Both A123 and LiPO's are great cells.


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## linakeen (Dec 10, 2012)

trailranger said:


> jflack,
> 
> Yes LiPOs do perform well, Their sustained output in C is lower than than LiFePO4 chemistry cells can do, but LiPO capacity is higher than LiFePO4. When you compare similar capacity cells in both chemistrys the wattage output is about the same. The reason why the wattage is about the same is that even though A123 cells are displacing more amps, the voltage is lower. The problem with A123 cells is that they are about 1000mah behind other companies who make cells in the same size and chemistry.
> 
> LiPOs should be faster with the same motor due the extra voltage untill the amp load gets too high. Both A123 and LiPO's are great cells.


goto a123rc on performance racing packs at the top then starter Kit special to the right and it will take you to everything.


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