# Udvar-hazy open house. Best access to Enterprise EVE!



## ClubTepes (Jul 31, 2002)

At Udvar-Hazy where they are restoring the Enterprise model.
This I believe literally the best access to the Enterprise model, that any civilian could ever hope for.
The model was in the open, with only a standard fabric stanchion separating it from the public.
It was also literally close enough to touch.

It also afforded the best opportunity for pictures, as it was in bright even light. Not the spoty museum lighting of the gift shop.

It was actually a much more rewarding experience than one could hope for.

Gary, talked to Malcom for a bit.
Good guy.

Absolutely incredible visitation.
BTW, it is MUCH greener that anyone has thought (referring to the original paint on the top of the saucer.

Pictures?
Later.


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## GSaum (May 26, 2005)

ClubTepes said:


> At Udvar-Hazy where they are restoring the
> 
> Pictures?
> Later.


Pictures or it didn't happen.


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## MartyS (Mar 11, 2014)

I'm quite jealous, I was thinking all week about driving down there for the open house but it's a bit far for a one day trip, and then the weather this morning was, let's say, not ideal for driving.


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## ClubTepes (Jul 31, 2002)

GSaum said:


> Pictures or it didn't happen.


Oh, your gonna regret those words.

I'm not in a place to load them.

Also bumped into all around good people....
Lou Dalmaso and George Takacs.

Lou may beat me to posting pics.

Also, let me clarify the green comment.
It's greener than it has looked in any pictures, or even in person at the Smithsonian.
The bad lighting in the gift ship gave a false color impression.

People like Gary have seen the ship before in conditions better than any of us have.
So I'm not discounting his color research.
I am saying, having seen it three prior occasions, it took me aback, seeing how green, the top of the saucer looked, without glass or bad lighting.


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## RossW (Jan 12, 2000)

Had a blast at the open house and seeing everything else in the museum. Went with my buddy Brian Ludden and we talked briefly with Jason Eastman and Jeff Wacklowski (sp). Got some good photos but can't upload them yet.

EDIT: let's see if this works


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## MartyS (Mar 11, 2014)

Those X-Rays show what look like florescent lamps in the saucer. 
The small plug in rectangular kind.
With the ballasts in the other X-Ray.

Did those exist in 1964?


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## irishtrek (Sep 17, 2005)

That last pic clearly shows some engraved horizontal grid lines on the secondary hull, something which I didn't know until now.


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

irishtrek said:


> That last pic clearly shows some engraved horizontal grid lines on the secondary hull, something which I didn't know until now.


Sadly, those aren't supposed to be there... that is the planks of the secondary hull separating from stress.

For the fun of it, here are some references for when looking at these shots of the model...


_Click to enlarge_

















Those might help put some of this in context.





MartyS said:


> Those X-Rays show what look like florescent lamps in the saucer.
> The small plug in rectangular kind.
> With the ballasts in the other X-Ray.
> 
> Did those exist in 1964?


No, but the original lighting elements had a tendency to warp the plastic if left on too long... the new lighting is better for the model.


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## JGG1701 (Nov 9, 2004)

*:thumbsup:GREAT PICS!*
I'm saving these to my photobucket as I speak!
-Jim


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## RossW (Jan 12, 2000)




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## JGG1701 (Nov 9, 2004)

Thanks for the photos guys, really making my day!
-Jim


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## MartyS (Mar 11, 2014)

Shaw said:


> No, but the original lighting elements had a tendency to warp the plastic if left on too long... the new lighting is better for the model.


When where they installed? In 92? I don't remember ever reading about installing ballasts and tubes, only rewiring what was there. Florescent ballasts do burn up occasionally, I wouldn't want to turn on those in that priceless hunk of kindling.

I guess since the original lighting is gone there's no reason not to go with any type of LED now, if there's nothing historically accurate left that needs to be replicated.


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

MartyS said:


> When where they installed? In 92?


Before. There are dark marks on the inside where they had been resting in pre-restoration photos.

The thing is, some things were missing when the model arrived in 1974, some things were changed in 1974 to make it a hanging display piece, and further changes were made in 1984. So no one restoration is the reason why we don't have the original set up. 1974 was when massive bolts were added to the model to lock the nacelles to the pylons and the pylons to the secondary hull, and 1992 was when channels were cut into the supports to hide the wiring heading to the nacelles.

The tunnel mid way down the spine of the dorsal was there from _The Cage_ when the model was originally designed to be hung by a piano wire for filming (though it might have been widened to handle the electrical wire passing through there).


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## Prologic9 (Dec 4, 2009)

Here's an album that was shared on Reddit, great pics;

http://rdj.smugmug.com/Museum-Artifacts/NCC1701-2015-UHC-restoration/

http://www.reddit.com/r/startrek/comments/2tma3q/heres_an_album_of_pics_i_took_of_ncc1701_during/


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## ClubTepes (Jul 31, 2002)

RossW said:


>


Ok, now THATS creepy.

Thats me and my two boys.

I sort of figured others might to get to upload first.


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## RossW (Jan 12, 2000)

Oh, wow, Mike - I didn't recognize you (we should know each other from WonderFest). This was taken after all my other photos and I just wanted to get one to show the crowd and how close we were.


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## ClubTepes (Jul 31, 2002)

Ok, I finally got a few uploaded.
I hope you like them.
Sorry I didn't have a longer lens with me.


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## ClubTepes (Jul 31, 2002)

A few more.

I think I was able to get a little closer.


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## MartyS (Mar 11, 2014)

Shaw said:


> Before. There are dark marks on the inside where they had been resting in pre-restoration photos.


That makes more sense, had to have been done when the model was being passed around and no one was documenting any changes they did to it.

Been doing some searching to try and figure out when those types of bulbs were first used commercially, not having much luck.


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## ClubTepes (Jul 31, 2002)

RossW said:


> Oh, wow, Mike - I didn't recognize you (we should know each other from WonderFest). This was taken after all my other photos and I just wanted to get one to show the crowd and how close we were.


Im surprised as well.
Mind if I use this pic on facebook?


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## JGG1701 (Nov 9, 2004)

ClubTepes said:


> Im surprised as well.
> Mind if I use this pic on facebook?


I hope you don't mind as well. I have already some of these pics on my photobucket page.
Thank you in advance.
-Jim


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## CessnaDriver (Apr 27, 2005)

Wow. Bridge is really peeling. And so many paint cracks on the saucer surface too.
I wonder how they are going to deal with all that?


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## irishtrek (Sep 17, 2005)

ClubTepes said:


> A few more.
> 
> I think I was able to get a little closer.



That shot of the bridge clearly shows cracking paint, ugh!! Never seen that light bulb underneath the saucer and right next to the neck. Great photos by the way.:thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## ClubTepes (Jul 31, 2002)

irishtrek said:


> That shot of the bridge clearly shows cracking paint, ugh!! Never seen that light bulb underneath the saucer and right next to the neck. Great photos by the way.:thumbsup::thumbsup:


Thats not next to the neck.
Perspective and lens length makes it look that way.

Its only the starboard lower running light. Well documented.

I'm not really sure that there is anything that they can do about the cracking paint on the top of the saucer (That is the surface that they never repaint). About the only thing they might be able to do is to find some way to keep it from cracking more.

As for the rest of the ship, I'm sure that will be repainted, its just a matter with what types of paints that they use.

My hope is, that when they put it back on display, they keep it at a level somewhat like this, where people can see the top of the saucer, without bouncing off a mirror.


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## bigdaddydaveh (Jul 20, 2007)

Holy crap that's a lot of green weathering. I always though the Polar Lights decals were a bit heavy but if that top hasn't been retouched as they say, they were closer than I thought. I wasn't expecting to see that much green.


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

I thought they didn't touch the top of the saucer.


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## Opus Penguin (Apr 19, 2004)

These are great! Man I wish I could have been there.


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## RossW (Jan 12, 2000)

ClubTepes said:


> Im surprised as well.
> Mind if I use this pic on facebook?


Not at all.


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## J_Indy (Jan 28, 2013)

Wow - you'd have to be color blind not to see the difference in color between the top and whatever was used on the rest of the model.....


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## KUROK (Feb 2, 2004)

From what I read in years ago, the B/C deck has been repainted but the flat part of the upper saucer has not. Correct?


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## J_Indy (Jan 28, 2013)

Curious if maybe they would have done some early testing and determined that the level of green they painted it would have the model later end up with the color they wanted on film after the blue background was processed-out...


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## The_Engineer (Dec 8, 2012)

KUROK said:


> From what I read in years ago, the B/C deck has been repainted but the flat part of the upper saucer has not. Correct?


Could be. If you look at some of the photos, the base of the bridge and the b/c deck are darker (greenish?) while the rest of it is grayish. It does look like they have been repainted. Many thanks to those who took pictures and posted them. After seeing the cracking on the bridge and the top of the primary hull - major ouch! I hope they can repair that.


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## RossW (Jan 12, 2000)

J_Indy said:


> Curious if maybe they would have done some early testing and determined that the level of green they painted it would have the model later end up with the color they wanted on film after the blue background was processed-out...


That is most likely true. Everyone working with film, from clothes designers to makeup artists to model builders, know how to make colour choices based on how the film stock will capture it to show it as desired. The makeup for the Frankenstein monster, for example, was green so it would have the right grayscale look in B&W film. Same goes for the Superman TV show of the 50s - the original costume used brown for the red coloured parts (cape, boots & underwear) because red reads too close to black in B&W film.


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## J_Indy (Jan 28, 2013)

RossW said:


> That is most likely true. Everyone working with film, from clothes designers to makeup artists to model builders, know how to make colour choices based on how the film stock will capture it to show it as desired. The makeup for the Frankenstein monster, for example, was green so it would have the right grayscale look in B&W film. Same goes for the Superman TV show of the 50s - the original costume used brown for the red coloured parts (cape, boots & underwear) because red reads too close to black in B&W film.



If that is true...then I suppose it presents the current restoration team with the obvious question of whether to restore it to studio color or what the film-intended color would be (minus the saucer top of course).

I suppose they could figure out what an "intended" color would be from taking the color of the saucer top and subtracting out the background blue used to film.

With most of it already altered so far from the original paint, it may present a choice they otherwise wouldn't have.


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## J_Indy (Jan 28, 2013)

Actually - just had a thought that is the reverse of my original one.

Is it possible that the green they chose was picked so that the reflecting blue of the background bluescreen would merge with the hull color and produce the color they were looking to obtain on film?

The reason is because dropping blue from green makes the color more yellowish, whereas adding blue to green produces a more grayish color, which would be more like a battleship.

Just guessing - because I have no idea if any of this was done on purpose or not...


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## Fozzie (May 25, 2009)

Am I the only one seeing broken links for ClubTepes pictures...? (Which I really, really want to see.)


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

J_Indy said:


> Is it possible that the green they chose was picked so that the reflecting blue of the background bluescreen would merge with the hull color and produce the color they were looking to obtain on film?


I think they'd have had a fair bit of latitude in the "colour timing" stage, that is, in changing the colour of the final print, so they might not have had to finesse it to that level on the set. 

After all, they took the green out of the Orion Slave girl!


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## J_Indy (Jan 28, 2013)

SteveR said:


> I think they'd have had a fair bit of latitude in the "colour timing" stage, that is, in changing the colour of the final print, so they might not have had to finesse it to that level on the set.
> 
> After all, they took the green out of the Orion Slave girl!



So true.... 

And Kirk's gold command tunic was supposed to be green (like his dress uniform tunic).


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## CaptCBoard (Aug 3, 2002)

Regarding the 'blue/green' issues. I can't address the reason for the green color used in painting the model. But I can say it has nothing to do with the blue-screen process. 

You have to remember this is not the digital age, this is the age of chemistry. In today's world, you can isolate a particular color or shade very accurately. Back then, the blue screen was not removed by 'just taking out the blue'. The blue-screen image was printed onto high contrast black and white stock to generate what was called the 'hold out' matte element. That element was then used to make a reverse element, so what was black on one was clear on the other. These elements were then sandwiched physically, called a bi-pack, and run through an optical printer, exposing a new piece of film that would become the 'comp'. The first pass would be the original blue-screen shot bi-packed with the hold out element, then the background element (planet/star field) would be exposed onto the same comp, bi-packed with the reverse element, so the background printed onto the same frames as the ship.

The choice of using blue was not really because blue was needed. It worked the best when the question light contamination came up. They could have used any solid color, but blue was the easiest to light for these purposes. When they started doing comps in video, using ChromaKey, they discovered green was better, mainly because there is almost no green in anyone's skin, but there is a certain amount of blue.

Sorry for the long 'splaination, but look elsewhere for why green was used on the E!

Scott


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## J_Indy (Jan 28, 2013)

CaptCBoard said:


> Regarding the 'blue/green' issues. I can't address the reason for the green color used in painting the model. But I can say it has nothing to do with the blue-screen process.
> 
> You have to remember this is not the digital age, this is the age of chemistry. In today's world, you can isolate a particular color or shade very accurately. Back then, the blue screen was not removed by 'just taking out the blue'. The blue-screen image was printed onto high contrast black and white stock to generate what was called the 'hold out' matte element. That element was then used to make a reverse element, so what was black on one was clear on the other. These elements were then sandwiched physically, called a bi-pack, and run through an optical printer, exposing a new piece of film that would become the 'comp'. The first pass would be the original blue-screen shot bi-packed with the hold out element, then the background element (planet/star field) would be exposed onto the same comp, bi-packed with the reverse element, so the background printed onto the same frames as the ship.
> 
> ...


Dang - that was a great explanation!! (And some rarely used brain neurons of mine seem to recall something like that from...TMOST?....)

Not only was it a good review of how things were done in those days, it was also a reminder of how freakin' EXPENSIVE Star Trek was to make (besides more mundane things like a table couldn't just be a table from the prop shop because it would look too much like...a table.)


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## TrekFX (Apr 15, 2004)

Is it possible that over the course of 50 years the original lacquer finish on the saucer top has simply aged and discolored, the base color taking on a more greenish hue overall?

I had an old Guild electric guitar (S-300D for the curious), which when purchased was "only" 15 years old. Finished in white lacquer, it already had discolored to a rather sickly shade of pale green-yellow.

Photos from the last restoration (prior to repainting) include some where it areas of the original finish on the bridge has been lightly sanded, apparently not so much as to break through to primer, revealing the underlying base finish to be more neutral in hue. Likewise with protected areas revealed by removal of the saucer/dorsal strongback part (aft of the bridge.)

Possibility?


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## Mr. Wabac (Nov 9, 2002)

Thanks to those who went to this event and have shared their photos.

Not surprised that the B/C deck has cracks, it is a solid piece of wood.

Granted a single picture is not a smoking gun, and certainly colour printing can leave alot to be desired, but I remember the cover of David Gerrold's book "The World of Star Trek" had a photo of the Enterprise miniature being filmed and it was very obvious that the ship had a green tint to it.

Seeing the photo many years ago, I always wondered what was going on, as the ship was always a shade of grey on the television. It seems the photo on the cover was correctly printed and was showing the true colour.

The restoration does seem to be a mismatch - the restored portions do seem to have much more of a grey tone to them; missing the overall green tinting; possibly a slight yellow tint as well - although that might be aging of the paint or clearcoat (if used).


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## The_Engineer (Dec 8, 2012)

I have the photo-novels and the Enterprise in the pictures is a blue-green colour. Also, I remembered reading an article in a magazine when Next Generation aired and they mentioned the Enterprise-D was painted the same blue-green colour as the original TOS Enterprise.


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## nautilusnut (Jul 9, 2008)

The ship has always been a light gray-green. The very first issues of the AMT models were actually produced in this shade of plastic using a color sample sent to them by Desilu studios. Subsequent re-issues of the kit were white or blue.


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

nautilusnut said:


> The ship has always been a light gray-green. The very first issues of the AMT models were actually produced in this shade of plastic using a color sample sent to them by Desilu studios. Subsequent re-issues of the kit were white or blue.


I have one of the first (1966) editions of the AMT kit... it is white. VERY white.








The historical importance of this version of the kit is that it was used for effects shots in the second season of TOS... and the aluminum dyes hadn't been altered or started warping yet. I've spent quite a bit of time documenting this model for this reason.

Here is the most recent update on my reverse engineered plans of that model...


_Click to enlarge_​


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## Lou Dalmaso (Jul 13, 2004)

What a great day! Sorry I missed some of you all. 

I got no pictures, but heres a link to some video I shot

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKlojq7pxQE&list=UUiiEox7-YK3zFuWZ3Nxi2Mw

and an update...I heard back from Malcolm and things are looking good.

Ross,
anyway i can get some of your photos?


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

Gee, didn't anyone LOCAL TO DC see this or make photos? Looks like everybody here is from out of town!


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## robn1 (Nov 17, 2012)

I was there, but I figured there would be plenty of pics from folks with better cameras than mine so I didn't bother. Thanks for sharing these great pics everyone. 

I kept my eyes open looking for some of you guys that I've seen in pics and videos, but didn't spot anyone. Sorry I missed you.


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## RossW (Jan 12, 2000)

Lou Dalmaso said:


> What a great day! Sorry I missed some of you all.
> 
> I got no pictures, but heres a link to some video I shot
> 
> ...


Feel free to grab whatever you want from my album:

http://s188.photobucket.com/user/RossAWaddell/library/Mobile%20Uploads


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## RossW (Jan 12, 2000)

I had posted on FB that I was going but should have done so here as well. Would have been great to meet people from this board (and Lou, whom I know from WF).


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## ClubTepes (Jul 31, 2002)

CaptCBoard said:


> Regarding the 'blue/green' issues. I can't address the reason for the green color used in painting the model. But I can say it has nothing to do with the blue-screen process.
> 
> You have to remember this is not the digital age, this is the age of chemistry. In today's world, you can isolate a particular color or shade very accurately. Back then, the blue screen was not removed by 'just taking out the blue'. The blue-screen image was printed onto high contrast black and white stock to generate what was called the 'hold out' matte element. That element was then used to make a reverse element, so what was black on one was clear on the other. These elements were then sandwiched physically, called a bi-pack, and run through an optical printer, exposing a new piece of film that would become the 'comp'. The first pass would be the original blue-screen shot bi-packed with the hold out element, then the background element (planet/star field) would be exposed onto the same comp, bi-packed with the reverse element, so the background printed onto the same frames as the ship.
> 
> ...



Scott, 
Your right on the money.
However, the only place I might diverge, is that Blue was (in the hold out matt portion of the process) used because there was also a filter (Tho I can't remember exactly which one) that removed the blue spectrum (exactly like blue-blocker sun glasses).


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## modelmaker 2001 (Sep 6, 2007)

I have quite a few photos to add as well, except that I'm very limited in the numbers of photos that I can post. If you can do so, check out my facebook page to see more of my photos of the various studio models of the Enterprise. 

photos from the NASM open house;
https://www.facebook.com/richard.sp...10152673559302336.1073741840.665202335&type=3

photos taken during the 1991-1992 restoration;
https://www.facebook.com/richard.sp...10152539678182336.1073741835.665202335&type=3

photos taken between 1972 and 1990;
https://www.facebook.com/richard.sp...10152538223897336.1073741834.665202335&type=3

photos taken after TOS ended;
https://www.facebook.com/richard.sp...10152538220467336.1073741833.665202335&type=3

photos of the 11 foot model during the regular TOS series;
https://www.facebook.com/richard.sp...10152538211977336.1073741832.665202335&type=3

and there are many more photo albums of mine here;
https://www.facebook.com/richard.sprague.7792/photos_albums


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Oh boy, is it ever frustrating that all these photos are blocked here at work! :lol:


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

modelmaker 2001 said:


> I have quite a few photos to add as well, except that I'm very limited in the numbers of photos that I can post. If you can do so, check out my facebook page to see more of my photos of the various studio models of the Enterprise.
> 
> photos from the NASM open house;
> https://www.facebook.com/richard.sp...10152673559302336.1073741840.665202335&type=3
> ...


Even more frustrating-

"This content is currently unavailable
The page you requested cannot be displayed right now. It may be temporarily unavailable, the link you clicked on may have expired, or you may not have permission to view this page.
Sign Up for Facebook"

It may be because I am no longer a member of Facebook, but I have been able to view pages there before...


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## irishtrek (Sep 17, 2005)

Modelmaker 2001, thanks for the link to your photos. It's nice to see her in a setting that's not so dark, a bit refreshing.


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## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

Yeah, that first kit was definitely white.


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## nautilusnut (Jul 9, 2008)

> Yeah, that first kit was definitely white.


I didn't pull that fact about the original kit being gray-green simply out of the air.

I too have an original Long-box white kit. Somewhere in my huge volume of Star Trek model materials I have an article about the AMT corporation and is states that AMT received a paint chip of the gray-ish color and produced a first run of the kit in this plastic, but dropped it for all subsequent pressings. As I can't confirm it from what I can find on the internet, I'll have to say that if I can find the article I will post it.

Meanwhile, there is this excellent article by Enterprise Modeling Expert, Paul Newitt-

http://culttvman.com/main/what-color-is-the-classic-enterprise-by-paul-m-newitt/


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

I too have the original kit with lights, etc, and it was white. I was shocked to get a green grey one years later.


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

About the time the 1/350 kit was released a big discussion as to original color was going on. I might be wrong, but wasn't the original paint used on the miniature known to be some automotive primer used back then?


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## Paulbo (Sep 16, 2004)

Somewhere in the sticky Tips and Tricks thread there's a discussion of the paint.


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## nautilusnut (Jul 9, 2008)

> About the time the 1/350 kit was released a big discussion as to original color was going on. I might be wrong, but wasn't the original paint used on the miniature known to be some automotive primer used back then?


Here's an expert opinion.

http://culttvman.com/main/what-color-is-the-classic-enterprise-by-paul-m-newitt/


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## JGG1701 (Nov 9, 2004)

modelmaker 2001,

Would you mind if I copied some of your facebook pics of the Enterprise on my Photobuckect page?
I have a few already from an earlier post, looks like you have a few different angles I would like to save on my Photobucket.
Thank you in advance?
-Jim


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## modelmaker 2001 (Sep 6, 2007)

Sure, go right ahead!


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