# Dash calls it quits.



## tomhocars

I just received an e-mail from Dan at Dash.He has shut down .Dash will be no more.No matter if you liked him or didn't it's a shame.Its sad when you see a supplier to the hobby out of business.He brought us a lot of good cars The chassis was 1 step away from production.Good Luck.. Tom Stumpf


----------



## SwamperGene

uhm....uh....


wow.






Thanks for all you gave us Dan.


----------



## '65 Nova

..the forum talk was a bit much... sad that it comes to this... dan & therefore we were so close to a new chassis - this is really disturbing news.

however, if dan has personnel issues i wish him the best...


----------



## 1976Cordoba

Is he broke or what? Seems odd coming on the heels of a new release.


----------



## Hilltop Raceway

tomhocars said:


> I just received an e-mail from Dan at Dash.He has shut down .Dash will be no more.


Now there's something to really "b i t c h" about!!! Aw man, that sucks...RM


----------



## 70ss

Website says "Gone Fishing"


----------



## ParkRNDL

I have followed the melee here on the board and on other boards a little, but I have not participated. At this point, I find it hard to believe that after all that time and effort and money invested he would take his ball and go home, but I guess that's what the message on his website would indicate...

--rick


----------



## ParkRNDL

I should add that I will miss his stuff greatly. I just put in an order with him Monday for about 10 bodies, and was looking forward to the chassis, the Makos, and other stuff he planned...

--rick


----------



## Rolls

This is horrible news. I really love the light weight, great detail and durability of Dash bodies - not to mention their good looks. And how about those magnets? Good stuff.

I wonder what the core problem is that's causing him to throw in the towel. 

If we knew more, maybe there's some sort of solution or creative idea that the problem-solving minds of this forum could think of that would be of some help.


----------



## Montoya1

Rolls said:


> I wonder what the core problem is that's causing him to throw in the towel.


It could be some recent back and forth on another forum that he took exception too.

I would bet a fair bit he will be back though.

If nothing else, I need that Mclaren F1


----------



## ParkRNDL

If you're really curious, you can go to Yahoo Groups, join HO World, and read the last few days worth of posts. You can probably find the answer there...

Short synopsis: lots of people had something to say, and he didn't like what they were saying. There were some valid points on both sides IMHO. Shame it ends this way.

--rick


----------



## Montoya1

If that is the case, then that is very bizarre.


----------



## SuperFist

That's not good,
because Dash T-Jet ceramic motor magnets are the new standard for performance.

__________________


----------



## bobhch

*Dash is over...Say it's not so...*

Tom,

Thanks for letting us all know but, wish it wasn't so. Maybe Dan will change his mind? 

Oh man, I love all the VW bodies Dan makes for T-Jets. I am a paint it up yourself type and mostly get his stuff in kit form. 









































































Dan your VW stuff is a personal favorite of mine but, love them all. When you made Herbie that was great. I have a couple and Herbie Ghia and VW vans also....love them and Thank you for making them available to us all.

Just put an order in myself for a bunch of bodies off of his web site. He said he was getting rid of stuff to raise money for the new chassis....darn it.

Bob...DAN DON'T GO...zilla

P.S. There are alot of different slot car people with alot of different ideas of what is what. You can't make everyone happy all the time so, if you want to come back Dan there are lots of us that would be glad to have you back.


----------



## Montoya1

I think everyone would be glad to have him back, that is a given, but it is no good the guy turning nasty on anyone who dispeases him, or shutting the whole thing down if several people do so at once.

People in business generally have to be more thick skinned than the rest of us, not less, or employ somebody who is to front for them...


----------



## Crimnick

What the hell?

So we basiclly have some forum monkeys to thank for this?

Seriously?


----------



## bobhch

wait there is more...










Bob...am looking for more pics of Dash bodies right now to post up righ now...zilla


----------



## resinmonger

Wow! This is majorly bad news. 

Dan makes totally cool stuff. Bringing out a brand new chassis would be pretty stressful IMHO. I hope he comes back after taking some time off.


----------



## Montoya1

Sunk far too many $$$$$s to walk away now, one would hope.


----------



## Montoya1

Crimnick said:


> What the hell?
> 
> So we basiclly have some forum monkeys to thank for this?
> 
> Seriously?


That is a long way from my take on what happened. Go to the relevant forum and read it all before making a snap judgement...


----------



## bobhch

*Dan has said some things but, so have we...Hate me if you want?*



Montoya1 said:


> I think everyone would be glad to have him back, that is a given, but it is no good the guy turning nasty on anyone who dispeases him, or shutting the whole thing down if several people do so at once.
> 
> People in business generally have to be more thick skinned than the rest of us, not less, or employ somebody who is to front for them...


Montoya,

You make a point and things have been said and arguments have been had. I am just saying the bodies Dash makes are good for the most part. I think what may have happened is that nit picking over this and that would make anyone feel like they are AGAINST ALL ODDS.

Just letting DAN know that he has not done anything to me that would make me want him to stop making slot bodies or hang it up. I say keep on going Dan! 

There will be people reading this post that are going to look at me and ask why are you sucking up to Dan so much? I am not...look at the pictures I am posting up. If I didn't like dans stuff I would not build it....duh. This is about Dan beeing able to make stuff better than that other company we all dog also. Nothing is perfect but, there are a lot of Dash bodies that are fun builds.

I had a 1/1 scale 70 Nova and sold it years ago. Everyone kept asking me "when is it going to be done?" Easy for eveyone else to keep nagging and just walk away. Part of the problem was money and the other part was just getting tired of getting bashed. After you here a Zillion negatives it is hard to turn that into a possitive. Hey not saying that Dan didn't snap back with some negatives. Just saying that it would be nice if some supporters who want Dan to stay would put in thier 2 cents here.










Here is another VW bug makers body that got all cracked up and stuff. Man were Fletcher and I happy when Dash came out with Herbie and still are! 










It would be very easy to just not say anything as not to be judged by fellow Hobby Talkers. I guess it is to late for me now. Buahahahahahahah

Bob...getting more pics to post now...zilla


----------



## bobhch

Here is a KY Hauler I did up for Win43 back in my earlier HT days. 










Dan donated these van kits that I painted up for a HOHT charity Auction back in 2008. Hooters!!




























Here is a 55 Dash kit that got done up for Tom Stumpf



















He also donated this Camaro body kit too.











BZ


----------



## tjetsgrig

I'm with you Bob!!! Should I duck now???


----------



## lenny

Montoya1 said:


> That is a long way from my take on what happened. Go to the relevant forum and read it all before making a snap judgement...


Deane. I will say this one thing to you and hopefully you can take this advice and find it useful. 

Don't stab a person in the back in another forum and then come here and pretend to be their 'ally', buddy, supporter, whatever.

You are part of the problem. My problem. Whatever you want to call it. You and I have NEVER seen eye to eye and you come on this board and pretend to somehow be a supporter of mine? You're a two-faced liar, my friend. Please stop posting ANYTHING about me. 

I have to play by a different set of rules because I'm a vendor. That's what I keep hearing. I need a thicker skin. I need this, I need that. I need to apologize. Blah-freaking-blah-blah-blah...

Sorry, but I don't play that way. When a list of upcoming Dash products, including 6 or 7 new bodies, is posted by someone else on HOWL, and the first words in response are 'what the heck, ANOTHER Batmobile?', followed up by 'yeah, that's what I was thinking', I have a problem with that. I guess the thought process of 'gee, Dan is thinking of redoing the Mako. That's cool!!', never occurs to these people. And the HOWL Moderator lets the Dash bashing continue but shuts ME down because I have the audacity to come back at these jerks.

I defend myself and my products. I guess I'm wrong to do that. I don't expect lemmings blindly following each other off the cliff, but some positive comments I guess are out of the question from these guys.

I am most certainly done. There will be no more new Dash products. The chassis is dead.

I came on this board right now to do what I guess I do best; blast someone. I hope this will be my only post on this subject, but something tells me that that won't be the case.

Deane, I'll put it as bluntly as I can. Shut up. You add precious little to the hobby but you post as if the hobby can't survive without you and your opinions. 

Thank you to all who supported Dash in the past.

Dan


----------



## bobhch

Here is a VW van I want to make from a Dash Van but, just have not gotten around to it yet.



















A screw on 55...I added my own Mooneyes to finish it off!










Dan I was thinking a Bumper Car slot car body series from the 70s would be way cool...are you sure?




























Gotta love this with some rrr rims...oh yeah.



















BZ


----------



## oddrods

Dan, 
I think you have far more people that are glad you have made the products you have. Compared to the compatition I have found your stuff better looking and better quality. I hope you change you mind.
Rob Rose
Mongrel Racing


----------



## Montoya1

Where to start?

First off I have been consistant, the shutting down of the Dash product line is a ridiculoius overeaction, one I hope you will not follow through. Where have I posted anything other than one of those opinions, or both?

So long as people feel they are free to say what _they_ like to me, advice to shut up will be ignored. It goes both ways.

My opinion remains that to get in a strop because (example) 2 people moaned about a batmobile is silly. Does it not sound daft to you when you hear it back? Did anyone out there in slot land really, really do enough to you to be publicly branded as jerks? really?

It is a crying shame that you cannot get past such things, because many people get joy from your products and should not lose out. You will lose out too. You could learn to defend without offending but it seems too late for that now?



lenny said:


> Deane. I will say this one thing to you and hopefully you can take this advice and find it useful.
> 
> 
> 
> Don't stab a person in the back in another forum and then come here and pretend to be their 'ally', buddy, supporter, whatever.
> 
> 
> 
> You are part of the problem. My problem. Whatever you want to call it. You and I have NEVER seen eye to eye and you come on this board and pretend to somehow be a supporter of mine? You're a two-faced liar, my friend. Please stop posting ANYTHING about me.
> 
> 
> 
> I have to play by a different set of rules because I'm a vendor. That's what I keep hearing. I need a thicker skin. I need this, I need that. I need to apologize. Blah-freaking-blah-blah-blah...
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, but I don't play that way. When a list of upcoming Dash products, including 6 or 7 new bodies, is posted by someone else on HOWL, and the first words in response are 'what the heck, ANOTHER Batmobile?', followed up by 'yeah, that's what I was thinking', I have a problem with that. I guess the thought process of 'gee, Dan is thinking of redoing the Mako. That's cool!!', never occurs to these people. And the HOWL Moderator lets the Dash bashing continue but shuts ME down because I have the audacity to come back at these jerks.
> 
> 
> 
> I defend myself and my products. I guess I'm wrong to do that. I don't expect lemmings blindly following each other off the cliff, but some positive comments I guess are out of the question from these guys.
> 
> 
> 
> I am most certainly done. There will be no more new Dash products. The chassis is dead.
> 
> 
> 
> I came on this board right now to do what I guess I do best; blast someone. I hope this will be my only post on this subject, but something tells me that that won't be the case.
> 
> 
> 
> Deane, I'll put it as bluntly as I can. Shut up. You add precious little to the hobby but you post as if the hobby can't survive without you and your opinions.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you to all who supported Dash in the past.
> 
> 
> 
> Dan


----------



## tjetsgrig

I've followed just about the whole thing. It's easy for someone to critisize someone from behind the keyboard. Are they the ones doing the legwork, research, investing the time and money? No! Personally, I'd love another Batmobile! The originals are to far outta range, and the others are just too cartoonish for me. I'd like an original style to race! I've been chompin' at the bit to get my hands on the new chassis and motor. I've got people that will be wanting race ready cars and I prefer the Dash bodies for their durability and detail. I sincerely hope you reconsider Dan, I think you will find more supporters in the hopes that you continue to supply a superior product!!

Jim Sgrig


----------



## bobhch

When Dash came out with the Henry J I was so excited. My Brother-in-Law has a 1/1 scale Henry and now I fixed him up with a Yellow Dash one that he loves.

This is a black Dash Henry that got Stupid Squired....I did put a 4 sale sign in the window but, I would never sell this...EVER!



















Here is another one I did up for Win43 with some decals from THAT SHEET....


----------



## bobhch

I can remember when I fist showed this on HT and everyone liked the paint but, said it needed to be lowered. This is when I started to realize the slot cars need a little customize work done to them to make them look just the way you want them to. 





































After listening to people and figuring things out I started this one and learned a good lesson on how to custom slot cars.


----------



## Marty

I am sorry to see Dash go. I don't get in on the "discussions" especially when it involves just bashing. I unfortunately did not support Dash as much as I wanted, my money went more for original HO stuff. I have bought from Dash in the past am am VERY happy with the products.

If there is anything I can do to keep Dash in business, please let me know.

Marty


----------



## sturgis

*Sad*

My club SWMSRA voted a couple of years ago to quit racing T-Jets...

I was very hopeful that the new Dash chassis would allow our club to start over with T-Jets with everyone racing the new Dash chassis.

I am very sorry to see you go out of business, especially because of "loud mouths"

Jeffrey Schrader


----------



## bobhch

The Mercury...AWESUM idea!














































Had a ton of fun laying down the stripes on this Dash 55 and adding an AW blower from that purple Imapala...










BZ


----------



## waltgpierce

*Incredibel Rat Rod!*

bobhch,

That Rat Rod is INCREDIBLE!

Please spend a little time and tell the HobbyTalk BB members how you achieved such a realistic "rust bucket" look to a plastic car.


----------



## Tjettom

*My Condolences*

RIP Dash motorsports.........I regarded your efforts as hope for any future for pancake motored HO slot car racing. Will the hobby survive without you?

This is troubling news in these troubling times.

Can the hobby endure?

Tom Baker


----------



## Montoya1

I think that is somewhat OTT, unless your tongue is a long way inside your cheek.

I think Lenny/Dan will be back, and soon. He will say there was 'too much demand' that he do so, which would be true.


----------



## bobhch

*You first need to find a body you realy want to rust...don't bother with a junk body!*



waltgpierce said:


> bobhch,
> 
> That Rat Rod is INCREDIBLE!
> 
> Please spend a little time and tell the HobbyTalk BB members how you achieved such a realistic "rust bucket" look to a plastic car.


waltgpierce,

Scroll down on the link below to post #827 

Flat browns, flat blacs and what ever flat paint color you want. Dabble it on from the paper you have spilled out the paint on. Sometimes you will dabble in the paint that is drying and sometimes you will cover larger areas with the wet paint. 

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=232513&page=56

Have a few more of these Indys rusted out sitting in side lines and will get done as time permits.

I am painting these in my garage paint area with the garage door open. The summer heat is helping this whole deal dry fast as I go. You need to clean your brush (one that has a bunch of bendable bristles, not those black yucky Testors types) out now and then as it will start to get clogged up with paint. 

Most importantly you just need to sit down and try messing around with the dabbing of flat paint. To get the colors with the highlights you want don't get discouraged if it doesn't look right at first. It takes me a while to get it the way I want it. Just keep going till you get it the way you want...it will work out for you eventualy.

When you want to just add a little color here and their make sure you dip your brush in the contrasting color and then dab on the paper to get some of the paint off and that also helps dry out the paint. Then try dabbing here and there to get a mix up of colors.

I keep dabbing my brush in the paint and then on the body...back and forth will give you depth and a pebble like rusty surface.

Bob...hope this helps...zilla


----------



## bobhch

Tjetjim sent me this Henry J after a Traveling Lola adventure he took for his 50th birthday.



















Had fun hunting down these decals for this one at the local hobby store...have a few more ideas for some VW vans using these decals in different color though.










Then there is the whole Slickster saga with Red Mercurys and Iron Crosses!!




























slotcarman put front & rear LEDs in the original slickster he sent for our son Fletcher (and me) to drive around Las Zillas Speedway. It still works great U-Joe!

Bob...wait there is more...zilla


----------



## 66GTODON

*re: DASH*

Dan , I am sorry to that you are calling it quits . I have a lot of your cars , because you made a great product , and very affordable .If you hadn't made that Super Modified I wouldn't have spent the money to buy the real thing. And so the rest of you know , I am that kid who saved his money from those odd jobs , lawn mowing, or anything else that get me a buck or two , then down to the hobby store I would go to buy one of those neat little cars. Yes I was ten years old in 1963 . I still get same feeling inside when I buy one of your cars or any new release , like TOMY or LIFELIKE etc. So , when it comes to those people that have nothing better to do than to bash someone . I say to them , go find another hobby and leave ours alone . If they keep it up , we'll all have to find another hobby, because they will run off anyone that's good for the hobby . Dan you can't make everybody happy , but I think you made MORE happy then NOT. I don't usually post on things like this , but this got my blood to boiling . Thanks for listening to what I had to say.

Don


----------



## bobhch

Then Ed sent me a baby blue Dash roadster with a Ghost Rider figure on it...

Ed knows I love Ghost Rider. Who doesn't like a skull headed motorcycle rider with flames shooting off of his skull? Nobody I know....

When I opened this suprise package from Ed it just screamed rust so, this was the first car I rusted. It is still a Ed creation but, I just added my taste to it. Most of the time I would not change a car built by someone else. Ed said it was O.K. Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeew 
































































This will stay in my collection forever. Just like all the other slots built by other HTers that have landed in Gretna, Nebraska. They are my favorites.

BZ


----------



## bobhch

Then you came out with the VW Ghia!!!!!!!! Man I jumped all over that thing and went to town.









































































Bob...hey come on guys post them picture of your favorite dash cars up NOW...zilla


----------



## bobhch

*Cars that got sent out...*

Hey it's a dash body party!! :hat:

After building this one up CJ said he HAD to have it...bye, bye cool little dash bug...bye, bye :wave:










Here is another 55 I built up for Tom...I love 55s...Stumpf with yet another one of those blowers off of that Purple Imapala. I have a few purple cars with holes in the hoods now sitting in a drawer.




























The frist car I ever layed painted flames down on was this Dash Ghia that got sent off to slotcarmans place.



















I have sent alot of cars to other HT members in trades and Charity ect. They say the best gift is the ones you give. Also have lots of slots from others on HT and those are the best gifts I have!!

Bob...not showing off...zilla


----------



## tjetsgrig

Bob.....You are a sick man.......zilla!! 

Cool stuf man!! :thumbsup:


----------



## bobhch

The Herbie Ghia is a fun car and glad you made it Dan!

This is an AW Sand Van I painted up. It would be a lie to say that every car in my collection was a Dash body. Not everyone drives a Ford or Chevy all the time either. Oh wait Wes.............Mopar! LOL










This van came from Ed via the HOHT Auction. I added some decals to it and Ed did a great paint job!



















This one came from t-jet in a trade. I decaled and stripped it. Then put a clear coat of Future on it to BOING it out!

The windows were made red by using a wide tip Sharpi marker on the inside of the window. Keep messing with it untill you get no streaks for a good look. This doesn't work for me on real big windows as well.










This Dash 55 was done by Wes and sits with the rest of my 55s...gotta love 55 Chevys.










I have seen the 55 chevy by AFX put on the 57 Nomad and the 57 Nomad put on the front of a 55 Chevy....you guys know the change up. How cool would it be to actualy have someone make these up so that everyone could have them???

Dan you are the most logical person to do this. Others make resin bodies and get them done when they can but, you make lots of bodies for lots of people. This is one thing people take for granted about Dash. Dash delivers the goods!!!

here is another Mercury. This one was built for CJ.




























BZ


----------



## resinmonger

I had a hobby business for 10 years and it can get pretty discouraging when you continue to get bashed in a public forum. Sadly, it seems there are always a few people that can never be pleased. These are the type of people who appear to take a sadistic pleasure in releantlessly hosing others. Naturally, the bashers would never make the effort to make a product or provide a service themselves.

I supose I can say that I actually understand how Dan feels. I still have the debt and inventory from my failed business to remind me _that I failed _- not a great feeling. I hope Dan doesn't end up in the same situation. That would let the haters win and make a whole lot of us pretty sad.


----------



## bobhch

Almost ready to get off of my Soapbox now as I have come to the end of my Photo Bucket pictures that got saved.

This was made for Tom Stumpf...



















And lastly I took the interior out of a Dash 55 convertible and gooped it into a AW 46 ford. Thanks Dan for all you have done!! :thumbsup::thumbsup:










I know you said you were leaving Dan and then Montoya blurbed some real mumbo jumbo. Yada, Yada, Yada. Just wanted to post these pictures up to thank you for all the cool CAR IMAGES you have planted in my brain and got turned into rolling plastic bodied slots....Far Out!

This is how we will all look if Dash stops.....................what if you had never done the bodies up that I just showed? My life and many others would definatly not been as SLOT CAR RIFIC as they could have been. Remember we all chose your bodies at some time over the others.....that says alot for what you and those that helped you have done SO FAR!










Bob...the world needs you Dan...zilla


----------



## plymouth71

Wow. I'm just waiting to pick up my first Dash Body from my incoming mail address. I'm going to replicate my Dad's 55 chevy from when he was a teenager. I made a replica diorama for him for christmas 2 years ago> He told me how much he loved it, and me. He died 2 days later. This 55 will be painted up in the same color for my son, who hardly knew his grandfather as he was only 2 when he died but everytime he see's that model, he knows that's Grandpa's car. I am extremely thankful that Dan has made this body available as the AFX/AW body would be a pain to modify myself. I too was looking forward to the Dash Chassis, I have a ton of bodies I would like to mate up. From one Dan to another, please go fishing, let off some steam and think about all those who do appreciate your work, as I'm sure it will far outweigh those who don't. Take care, all the best, and remember I'm rootin' for ya, were all in this together!


----------



## Gear Head

"I'm rubber, your glue, what ever you say bounces off of me and sticks to you. " Silly but words to live by. Don't listen to em' Dan. Heck, I don't listen to anybody, ask my wife! You have always made an awesome product and will continue to do so. I will never admit how much of your product I have "acquired" over the years but am glad I did so. Take a break, regroup, come back when your ready and knock our socks off again. I miss you already.


----------



## smalltime

Oh Come on.........
I'm sure there are a few more pics you can post to this thread.

We are talking about a guy loosing his buisness, and you are posting pics.

Wow!
Or should I say:
Heeeeeyyyyyy.


----------



## joegri

just turned on hobbytalk after a crappy day at work and found this. yep i hope it gets better from here.damn fellas we were this close to having a new chassis and dash was gonna hit a homerun. o well maybe someone will take up the cause for a quality chassis and bodies and magnets and so on. swing and a miss.


----------



## resinmonger

smalltime said:


> Oh Come on.........
> I'm sure there are a few more pics you can post to this thread.
> 
> We are talking about a guy loosing his buisness, and you are posting pics.
> 
> Wow!
> Or should I say:
> Heeeeeyyyyyy.


I do believe that Bob Zilla is trying to show his appreation of Dash products by posting pictures of all of the Dash bodies he has modded. IMHO, this is a pretty good method of showing support.


----------



## tjetgeo

Dan
Take some time to reflect on this situation and a lot of us hope you will reconsider. You had great products and we were waiting on the new chassis. I had to assume from your previous products that the chassis would be just as great. The hobby will be a lot better with you around.


----------



## pshoe64

Dan,

I have bought a handful of your products and have always been exceptionally pleased with what you sent. I bought my wife a love bug that she races regularly and keeps me and the kids from snatching up! I have gone through the same issues with my body business (on a much smaller scale), not being able to keep the bashers satisfied. But think on the flip side of how many people you make happy. Maybe we were too lax in sending in the positive responses to counter the negatives. I hope you give us that chance and stick around. Just want to be one of many to let you know we have your back and don't let them run you off.

Bob - Excellent run of Dash history and what can be done, then, now and hopefully in the future!

-Paul
Speed Inc


----------



## smalltime

resinmonger said:


> I do believe that Bob Zilla is trying to show his appreation of Dash products by posting pictures of all of the Dash bodies he has modded. IMHO, this is a pretty good method of showing support.


Sorry,
It has been a rough day.

It was still alot of pics though.


----------



## brownie374

I hope he reads this forum and changes his mind.All of his products are top shelf.If you dont like em dont buy em.Just because people play with toy cars doesnt mean you have to act like a child.I for one hopes he rethinks his decision.


----------



## Bill Hall

I know we didnt always see eye to eye Dan...so let me apologize for being a self appointed hall monitor...ya know...I'm just a dumb Kraut after all. 

Thanks for doing all the cars no other manufacturer would. I REALLY appreciated the VW models. Funny part was watching them show up in A-dubs catalog a day late and a dollar short. I laughed very hard and may have even pee'd a little. 

Regardless of all the fuss, your legacy will remain: you listened to your customer base and made a whole slug of bad ass impact resistant high quality slot bodies. As they are manufactured in ABS they will also remain.

When yer blood pressure finally drops, rememeber that "Lord Montoilette of Limpwood" and the ladies auxillary at "HO Whirled" cant take away what's already a done deal.

Good luck to you


----------



## Montoya1

I think what we are seeing now is some people so, so desperate for the new chassis that they will post some real grade A hogwash. 

Lets not turn what happened into some kind of epic, a couple of people made flip comments about a Dash product so Lenny turned his well known charm on them. When a few people said things along the lines of 'hey, no need for that' he shut down the whole company.

Pretty hard to present what happened any other way, from what I saw. Certainly no need for statements like Lord Montoilette of Limpwood" and the ladies auxillary at "HO Whirled - whatever any of that means.

I think it will all work out for the best. Lenny will be back, obviously, and knowing he can't pull the same stunt twice might instead wisely decide to just ignore people who make comments that rile him. Remember Dave pulled HOHT for a while too, but eventually common sense prevailed. Too many reasons for the same thing not to happen here.


----------



## tjd241

*There were more...*

This is just a smattering. Worked with quite a few over the years... mostly for fans of a few of the unique or classic bods produced. Eminently customizable... tough construction... finished product ya almost didn't wanna let go of. I've always had a pretty lean budget so I never bought a lot... but what I did take home was good stuff... The new chassis was something I had really hoped to try. Oh yeah... this brand will be missed.


----------



## bobhch

*I have your rough day right here Mr. smalltime*



smalltime said:


> Sorry,
> It has been a rough day.
> 
> It was still alot of pics though.


smalltime sent me a PM and appologized. He was very sincere and asked we would not let this come between us so....I am changing this post to a possitive. May have read more into this than I should have as I was pumping up for a Montoya reply. 

Sorry that I posted some not very pretty things on this post and have now changed them...Doh. 

I don't want to make enemies with anyone or make them feel uncomfortable...I am sorry too!!


Bob...I am sorry this Montoya made my day rough so....apology accepted...zilla


----------



## Bill Hall

*My Apologies for the slight*



Montoya1 said:


> I think what we are seeing now is some people so, so desperate for the new chassis that they will post some real grade A hogwash.
> 
> Lets not turn what happened into some kind of epic, a couple of people made flip comments about a Dash product so Lenny turned his well known charm on them. When a few people said things along the lines of 'hey, no need for that' he shut down the whole company.
> 
> Pretty hard to present what happened any other way, from what I saw. Certainly no need for statements like Lord Montoilette of Limpwood" and the ladies auxillary at "HO Whirled - whatever any of that means




...I ommitted Grand Duchess of Hogwash...Oblivious Sayer of the Nonsensically Obvious. 

Most everyone else knows what it means... and that's what makes it so gawdawful funny and pathetic at the same time.


----------



## bobhch

Montoya1 said:


> I think what we are seeing now is some people so, so desperate for the new chassis that they will post some real grade A hogwash.
> 
> Lets not turn what happened into some kind of epic, a couple of people made flip comments about a Dash product so Lenny turned his well known charm on them. When a few people said things along the lines of 'hey, no need for that' he shut down the whole company.
> 
> Pretty hard to present what happened any other way, from what I saw. Certainly no need for statements like Lord Montoilette of Limpwood" and the ladies auxillary at "HO Whirled - whatever any of that means.
> 
> I think it will all work out for the best. Lenny will be back, obviously, and knowing he can't pull the same stunt twice might instead wisely decide to just ignore people who make comments that rile him. Remember Dave pulled HOHT for a while too, but eventually common sense prevailed. Too many reasons for the same thing not to happen here.


Montoya,

Your first 2 words..."I think" mean nothing to me. I don't care what you think!! 

This is the garbage that needs to be taken out to the Dump. :wave:

Bob...blah, blah, blah, blah...zilla


----------



## tjd241

*Seriously?*



Montoya1 said:


> I think what we are seeing now is blah blah blah


Nobody needs to be spoon fed anymore "personal" spins on the issue Dean. To top it off, the man even asked you to butt out... Use your head. You have history with him and little if anything to add here. If you feel so strongly that it will work out for the best, then for once back away and don't be that guy.


----------



## kiwidave

It's hardly surprising that Dan would pull the plug on Dash products when we have people like Montoya1 doing nothing constructive on the forums but trying to upset others!

"Lets not turn what happened into some kind of epic, a couple of people made flip comments about a Dash product so Lenny turned his well known charm on them. When a few people said things along the lines of 'hey, no need for that' he shut down the whole company". 

And how would you feel if someone was trashing your products??? 

Dan, thanks for your products and input in the HO slot car hobby! I wish you all the best! 

Cheers Dave.


----------



## lenny

Montoya1 said:


> I think what we are seeing now is some people so, so desperate for the new chassis that they will post some real grade A hogwash.
> 
> Lets not turn what happened into some kind of epic, a couple of people made flip comments about a Dash product so Lenny turned his well known charm on them. When a few people said things along the lines of 'hey, no need for that' he shut down the whole company.
> 
> Pretty hard to present what happened any other way, from what I saw. Certainly no need for statements like Lord Montoilette of Limpwood" and the ladies auxillary at "HO Whirled - whatever any of that means.
> 
> I think it will all work out for the best. Lenny will be back, obviously, and knowing he can't pull the same stunt twice might instead wisely decide to just ignore people who make comments that rile him. Remember Dave pulled HOHT for a while too, but eventually common sense prevailed. Too many reasons for the same thing not to happen here.


Deane, you never quit, do you?? What is it going to take to get you to put a freaking cork in your piehole???? SHUT - THE - FRICK - UP!!! 

Your opinions are BS. I am beyond annoyed at reading your 'thoughts' about why I'm hanging it up. Well known charm? Pull the same stunt twice?? WTF??? 

Hank could do this board a HUGE favor and ban you and it would be a much better place. 

Again, you know NOTHING


----------



## lenny

kiwidave said:


> It's hardly surprising that Dan would pull the plug on Dash products when we have people like Montoya1 doing nothing constructive on the forums but trying to upset others!
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers Dave.


THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## kiwidave

"Hank could do this board a HUGE favor and ban you and it would be a much better place".

I second that!!


----------



## partspig

Hmmmmmmmm, make that three votes!


----------



## oddrods

add another vote.


----------



## Dyno Dom

Dan, I'm extremely saddened to read this thread. Your dedication & quality of product to the hobby will be a tremendous loss. I’m not a member of the BB that has been critical of you. Honestly, I do not know the particulars of the situation. Possibly, their selfish agenda & motives have delivered the response from you that have been ultimately hoped for. For me, the best HO slot car body ever made is the Dash Cobra for inline chassis. When I sold my 6 lane Tomy layout, my intention was to go to 1/32nd scale. Dash products were one of the factors for me to reconsider my decision. Please DO NOT let a few fanatical T-Jet nuts douse the flame of your pride and success. Whatever the future holds for you, I wish you the best of happiness & health.

Thank you for all that you have done for the betterment of the HO slot car hobby.

Best Regards,

Dominick


----------



## Bill Hall

Dean,

Whether you get it or not is of little consequence. Equally, whether you like it or not is irrelavent. What is relavent is that Dan was appreciated here for what he did and was trying to do. Yes agreed, and clearly; there were issues that required overlooking... just like we overlook yer...uh....shortcomings. 

Too bad you cannot muster in yourself the slightest glimmer and realize that this thread is one of condolence and then step up big boy style and show the good taste that you always seem to demand of everyone else. You had more than yer fair share of say elsewhere.

Do you even own any Dash products? Yeah that's what we thought. So my point stands...with a trader rating of 1....zero photos in yer album....and a virtual fertilizer pile of posts in 6 years...that gives you a Hobby Talk Hogwash rating of about 135%. Just what is it that you contribute besides spooge? 

So unless you have something fun, fond or positively profound to say about Dan, Dash Products, or his momma why dont you take Nuther Daves advice!

Edit ...five votes...can Gus my cat vote too? If so make that six votes


----------



## bearsox

In order to understand where this came from ( seemingly anyway ) and what actually was said etc it would be better to just visit the thread . So with a bit of luck here is a link to HOWL at the begining http://groups.yahoo.com/group/howorld/message/66167 . Just follow the thread and read closely what was said and how it was said . Draw your own conclusions rather than hearsay . Opinions will still vary just as they do when a crowd witnesses anything. You get 100 people into a room and show them a 1 min film and many will agree what they saw . Still some will allways see something different . It's just human nature and a matter of perception i guess. IMHO 2 things should be clear regardless of what else you think of the thread. One is that Dash makes some very fine products regardless if we like them ALL or just a few they are well made and no one i can tell says they are not . Two Dan is not good at PR and could use a front / middle man or some type help in that area. Again This is just MY opinions. 

Bear :wave:


----------



## lenny

bearsox said:


> In order to understand where this came from ( seemingly anyway ) and what actually was said etc it would be better to just visit the thread . So with a bit of luck here is a link to HOWL at the begining http://groups.yahoo.com/group/howorld/message/66167 . Just follow the thread and read closely what was said and how it was said . Draw your own conclusions rather than hearsay . Opinions will still vary just as they do when a crowd witnesses anything. You get 100 people into a room and show them a 1 min film and many will agree what they saw . Still some will allways see something different . It's just human nature and a matter of perception i guess. IMHO 2 things should be clear regardless of what else you think of the thread. One is that Dash makes some very fine products regardless if we like them ALL or just a few they are well made and no one i can tell says they are not . Two Dan is not good at PR and could use a front / middle man or some type help in that area. Again This is just MY opinions.
> 
> Bear :wave:


Dennis,
This isn't about HOWL the other day. It's an ongoing battle that I seem to have with a vocal minority that likes to stick it to me when they can. You also fit that group. While my HOWL posts are moderated and many never see the light of day, it's acceptable for others to continue to slam me and the whole board gets a big laugh at Dans expense. If you don't know what I mean, read the post where it was suggested that I rename my company. Then read your response. Where is Bob when it comes to moderating these posts? Where is YOUR common sense when it comes time to stop the bashing?

This is just the lastest in a 5 year battle and I've had it. I don't have the energy for this anymore.

My nature is to defend myself. If the core argument is that as a vendor I'm excluded from that option, and if I continue to get in these battles everytime I post, obviously something needs to change. That change needs to come from me since the a-holes will still continue being a-holes. However, as I said, it's my nature to defend my products and myself. And that's not going to change. And when the moderator of HOWL continues to let people blast away at me and I have no recourse, that's unacceptable.

It's no longer fun, if it ever was. Every freaking thing I've tried to do has been a controversy. I'd probably have an easier go of it if I were a supreme court nominee... The magnets were a battle, the arm was an ongoing battle. The chassis was a failure waiting to happen. My product selection sucks.

Well, it's done. Thank you to the supporters for the last 6 years. The most fun I had was bringing the Super Mod to market. That was cool. It all went downhill from there.


----------



## bobhch

Gus counts so Fletcher and I make it Seven and Eight votes...

I changed one of my post in this thread in response to smalltimes posting. 

smalltime sent me a very nice apology and said that he didn't want this to cause ill feelings between us. So I accepted....I over reacted myself a bit and am sorry too. 

Don't want to make waves or hardships for others here on HT. Well unless we are talking about Montoya. LOL  When someone gets everyone else in a tissy things seem to go haywire real quick. I think a SHOUT OUT by the HT board members has been made here today.

Bear,

You are correct about the front/ middle middle man statement I believe. lol Heck I think alot of us in this situation might need one of those also. Smack is hard to swallow. Dan my Motto has always been if it isn't fun then don't do it. I here where you are comming from & just letting you know that some of us get it. You tried to please people and even at times tried to involve them in the choices. Well it aint easy at the top. 

Bob...have about another 20 more dash bodies sitting painted waiting thier turn in the mess of projects...zilla


----------



## resinmonger

I will make it nine votes...


----------



## brownie374

lenny said:


> Dennis,
> This isn't about HOWL the other day. It's an ongoing battle that I seem to have with a vocal minority that likes to stick it to me when they can. You also fit that group. While my HOWL posts are moderated and many never see the light of day, it's acceptable for others to continue to slam me and the whole board gets a big laugh at Dans expense. If you don't know what I mean, read the post where it was suggested that I rename my company. Then read your response. Where is Bob when it comes to moderating these posts? Where is YOUR common sense when it comes time to stop the bashing?
> 
> This is just the lastest in a 5 year battle and I've had it. I don't have the energy for this anymore.
> 
> My nature is to defend myself. If the core argument is that as a vendor I'm excluded from that option, and if I continue to get in these battles everytime I post, obviously something needs to change. That change needs to come from me since the a-holes will still continue being a-holes. However, as I said, it's my nature to defend my products and myself. And that's not going to change. And when the moderator of HOWL continues to let people blast away at me and I have no recourse, that's unacceptable.
> 
> It's no longer fun, if it ever was. Every freaking thing I've tried to do has been a controversy. I'd probably have an easier go of it if I were a supreme court nominee... The magnets were a battle, the arm was an ongoing battle. The chassis was a failure waiting to happen. My product selection sucks.
> 
> Well, it's done. Thank you to the supporters for the last 6 years. The most fun I had was bringing the Super Mod to market. That was cool. It all went downhill from there.


Just stay off of howl


----------



## brownie374

Vote 10 !!


----------



## WesJY

Dean - sooner or later you will NOT be able to buy any slot cars products from USA!!! We have better products made here in USA and dont forget we (USA) kicked your country's a$$ 200 years ago !!

Wes


----------



## Dyno Dom

Dan, your Super Mods were a welcome addition to the HO community.
Possibly some of your quality variety of bodies to market angered those who had something to lose from their selfish pedestal.


----------



## resinmonger

Something feels strange about this thread. It's like something is missing... Oh, I know, some of the standard erudite comments from our resident doctor of slotolgy are MIA. Come on, you all know the ones I'm speaking of:

_American tracks are too small, tiny even, and don't resemble *real *race tracks. If one doesn't have to rent the Albert Hall to build the layout, it just isn't relavent old bean.

It's regretable to see all of these TJet releases when there is an absolute darth of bodies for the fantastic Mega G. 

The Shadow never raced in Jasper colors. Why can't you build real race cars?_

One could go on but why hog bandwidth...

It amazes me that one of the most intolerant posters that I know of always claims intolerance, jingoism, etc. on our part when we beg to differ from his exhaulted point of view. It's a pity that a thread about the loss of a key supplier to the enthusiasts in this hobby keeps being hijacked by one of the people who have bedeviled said supplier for as long as I can emember.

I dropped both SCI and HOWL because of the constant flow of negative comments on both forums. I truely wish we could prevent that sort of behavior from occurring on HT.


----------



## 66GTODON

*re: DASH*



lenny said:


> Dennis,
> This isn't about HOWL the other day. It's an ongoing battle that I seem to have with a vocal minority that likes to stick it to me when they can. You also fit that group. While my HOWL posts are moderated and many never see the light of day, it's acceptable for others to continue to slam me and the whole board gets a big laugh at Dans expense. If you don't know what I mean, read the post where it was suggested that I rename my company. Then read your response. Where is Bob when it comes to moderating these posts? Where is YOUR common sense when it comes time to stop the bashing?
> 
> This is just the lastest in a 5 year battle and I've had it. I don't have the energy for this anymore.
> 
> My nature is to defend myself. If the core argument is that as a vendor I'm excluded from that option, and if I continue to get in these battles everytime I post, obviously something needs to change. That change needs to come from me since the a-holes will still continue being a-holes. However, as I said, it's my nature to defend my products and myself. And that's not going to change. And when the moderator of HOWL continues to let people blast away at me and I have no recourse, that's unacceptable.
> 
> It's no longer fun, if it ever was. Every freaking thing I've tried to do has been a controversy. I'd probably have an easier go of it if I were a supreme court nominee... The magnets were a battle, the arm was an ongoing battle. The chassis was a failure waiting to happen. My product selection sucks.
> 
> Well, it's done. Thank you to the supporters for the last 6 years. The most fun I had was bringing the Super Mod to market. That was cool. It all went downhill from there.


Attaboy Dan, 
Just let me know if you need someone to go over to their house ,and leave that little sack of dog poo on their door step. I will . The Super Mod was just the beginning for me . The Lead Sled , 63 Fords ,GTOs ,etc ,etc ,etc . They were all great . If you produced something that wasn't to my liking , I just waited for the next one . I'll miss your great work , that you put forth for our hobby. 

Don


----------



## partspig

Well said Resin, well said!!!


----------



## CJ53

hank,, add my vote!! 
CJ


----------



## Pete McKay

My reply will be short and specific to my experience with DASH;

I have had a few cars, not nearly as many as most of you, but I have always enjoyed the quality and detail of the cars. My own experience has been that he has maintained that quality throughout his entire line, I never had one break and I race my stuff hard. With that said, we have a lot of Busch/Keslowski talk going on here, it makes me glad that I'm a back runner for the most part. But I will miss DASH not for what he won't be offering anymore, but for what he could have in the future.


----------



## 66Galaxie500

I thought I had bought too many Dash bodies, however, it now looks as if I have too few.
Thank you for producing a quality line of products.


----------



## LeeRoy98

Dan,
I truly hope you reconsider your decision. But I would like to say thanks for all that you have contributed to our hobby. I think I represent the majority of our hobby in saying that there are certain people that post routinely that I do not read. I know it isn't that easy when they are discussing your efforts. But a huge percentage of us have always appreciated your efforts.

BTW Hank, add my vote.

Gary
AKA LeeRoy98
www.marioncountyraceway.com


----------



## bearsox

lenny said:


> Dennis,
> This isn't about HOWL the other day. It's an ongoing battle that I seem to have with a vocal minority that likes to stick it to me when they can. You also fit that group. While my HOWL posts are moderated and many never see the light of day, it's acceptable for others to continue to slam me and the whole board gets a big laugh at Dans expense. If you don't know what I mean, read the post where it was suggested that I rename my company. Then read your response. Where is Bob when it comes to moderating these posts? Where is YOUR common sense when it comes time to stop the bashing?
> 
> This is just the lastest in a 5 year battle and I've had it. I don't have the energy for this anymore.
> 
> My nature is to defend myself. If the core argument is that as a vendor I'm excluded from that option, and if I continue to get in these battles everytime I post, obviously something needs to change. That change needs to come from me since the a-holes will still continue being a-holes. However, as I said, it's my nature to defend my products and myself. And that's not going to change. And when the moderator of HOWL continues to let people blast away at me and I have no recourse, that's unacceptable.
> 
> It's no longer fun, if it ever was. Every freaking thing I've tried to do has been a controversy. I'd probably have an easier go of it if I were a supreme court nominee... The magnets were a battle, the arm was an ongoing battle. The chassis was a failure waiting to happen. My product selection sucks.
> 
> Well, it's done. Thank you to the supporters for the last 6 years. The most fun I had was bringing the Super Mod to market. That was cool. It all went downhill from there.


*Dan ,
without going into the entire HOWL thread .... i recall ZERO DASH product bashing on my part. I do recall saying to my buddy Dave i ( to paraphrase ) had enough of the overloaded Batcave ( Mine ) when the question was posed "do we really need another Batmobile ". No one said do we need a Dash Batmobile they just a Batmobile. I did reference in a good way Brad's post and mentioned it will be nice to have something different for the man cave though when the 36 coupe comes out and if the Enzo ends up a tjet as well. Now that was a reference to Dash you should take to heart as it was a good one. Still nothing was said of it just the negative perception you had of a read on part of the post. Dan i'm sorry you feel i am not in Dash's corner but you couldn't be further from the truth. I never wish to see a company that is a strong contributor to the hobby i love pack it in , fail or retire and go away . Taking a real good look at my postings i think one can see i usually have some compliments in them as well. I'm not the blatant kiss the hiney type so don't go looking for that type or to be tossing roses at ones feet but if i say i'm looking to add one to my box or pit or nice body etc .... That's a good thing. 

Bear :wave: *


----------



## LeeRoy98

Tjettom said:


> RIP Dash motorsports.........I regarded your efforts as hope for any future for pancake motored HO slot car racing. Will the hobby survive without you?
> 
> This is troubling news in these troubling times.
> 
> Can the hobby endure?
> 
> Tom Baker


Tom, I hate to say that I agree. I hope we are both wrong.

Gary
AKA LeeRoy98
www.marioncountyraceway.com


----------



## WesJY

VOTE 13!!!

Wes


----------



## joeslotcar

*Dash situation*

(also posted this on HOWL)
Trashing the efforts of any legitimate manufacturer in the hobby does nothing for the advancement of said hobby, especially when the critic can hide behind the keyboard. I dare say that the boys on this (or any) forum would speak the way they write if they were face to face. Worst thing the internet has done is allow anyone to have an opinion, no matter what level of civility or social skills they have. Everyone's a critic. Trashing and put downs are easy. Just hit enter (and hide).

What's this about? It's called RESPECT. This world needs more of it. I
certainly give Dash all the respect in the (HO) World for doing what he has done and I hope he does NOT quit. He put his money where his mouth is. I do not know him personally, but I have to respect the man. He is a business man with what seems like a genuine care for what he makes. Very few men have stepped up like him. Bob B and Tom S, Harrison, Tom Lowe, Robert Armstrong, Phil Pignon and a few others come to mind. I vote with my wallet and have purchased over 300 Dash bodies. Not bragging here, just saying I buy what I like and leave the rest to others.

I'll leave you with two of my favorite sayings:
1. When you point a finger at someone, three fingers are pointing back at you.
2. Never get in an argument with an idiot. Someone who is watching cannot tell which one of you is the real idiot.

Back to lurking,
Joe Saccomanno


----------



## Joe65SkylarkGS

I been off line for 2 days and this happens??? WTF??

Dan you might have some of the best bodies available. I do hope you reconsider. I have probably 40 to 50 of your bodies and the moon eyes 55 with green windows and hood scoop is one of my favorite cars to run.

This is very sad indeed. These keyboard tough guys are totally unnecessary. I have seen it before on some other forums and it just plain out right sucks. But in this computer world there is always going to be these wimpy losers that can't get anywhere in life and have a need to be this way in life because it's literally ALL they have. No doubt they are jammed into a little tiny dirty smelly apartment with the computer screen as the focal point of their disgusting pathetic little world.

Dan thanks for some of the Coolest HO cars I have ever had the pleasure to won. Seriously bro, the coolest.


----------



## martybauer31

Montoya1 said:


> Certainly no need for statements like Lord Montoilette of Limpwood" and the ladies auxillary at "HO Whirled - whatever any of that means.


You know EXACTLY what it means Lord M.... And the problem is that you either truly don't get what the majority of people think about you, or you truly don't care, not sure which is worse.

Although it looks as though a vote is taking place, and you're wanted off the island Gilligan.


----------



## Crimnick

Score keeper...put me down as vote 15 please.


----------



## Montoya1

Bill Hall said:


> Dean,Do you even own any Dash products?


Yes, but what has that got to do with the discussion at hand?


----------



## Montoya1

martybauer31 said:


> You know EXACTLY what it means Lord M.


Sorry, but I don't or I would not of said as much.


----------



## SwamperGene

I'll add a vote...that this has turned into one of the lamest threads I've ever seen.

After recess is over, everyone clean up their milk and cookie mess, then fire up your browsers, go to HT, click on Montoya's or whoever else's name and click this:











Or would that take all the fun away????????


----------



## tomhocars

Gene,I hope you're drinking 2% or low fat milk.


----------



## SwamperGene

tomhocars said:


> Gene,I hope you're drinking 2% or low fat milk.


 
Low fat here Tom :thumbsup:

Not that it does any good :freak:


----------



## hankster

I will allow this thread to stay open. If there is one more personal attack I will take further action. Any such problems can be reported to me via the "Report Post" button.


----------



## AfxToo

I hope that we have not seen the last of Dash. I know that Dan has put a lot of blood, sweat, and tears (and a boatload of cash) into creating a business that brings so much pleasure to so many of us. I have corresponded with Dan over the years and I know that he has great integrity and is a sound businessman. But he is also a creator of something that is placed up in plain sight for all to evaluate, admire, scrutinize, gush over, critique, and hopefully purchase as an object of desire. He's put his creativity, insight, and artistry on the line, time after time, and that's a tough place to be. To his credit, as Bobzilla has shown, Dan's creations are very much coveted and bring a lot of joy to our hobby lives. I am also very appreciative of the Dash products in my collection and consider them to be prized possessions. 

Any time you put yourself out there and there is an unmoderated and open forum for critique, be it online or otherwise, you are opening yourself up to scrutiny. This kind of comes with the territory. No matter how good you are, no matter how much your products are prized, no matter how flawlessly you executed on your creative vision and your business plan, you will have detractors and negative opinions. Negative critiques and comments can come from a variety of directions, be it technically oriented ones ("the body line is off or a window shape is off a smidge"), personal preferences ("why did you pick THAT color?"), and one's that reflect a personal flaw or prejudice in the reviewer (the "I will never buy a product from Brand X" and personal attacks) variety. As someone whose products are being scrutinized you have to be prepared for negative critiques in the first two categories, technical and personal preferences, but ones in the last category you just have to learn to ignore. 

To be clear, I have not read the forum where the altercation took place. I do have to say that I respect Deane and his right to articulate his opinions even when I do not agree with them. It's his prerogative to throw out an opinion. From what I have seen they are almost always of a technical or personal preferences/opinion nature. The latter category, personal opinion, can come across as being a personal attack if you do not understand that they are just one man's opinion, one very opinionated man's opinion, especially if you take umbrage to his opinion. But we all have opinions and they all count the same no matter how verbosely stated they may be. There's a risk of being over opinionated, you can be deemed irrelevant by loss of insight or questionable motivation, but there's an equal danger in turning around and transforming highly opinionated statements into personal attacks against the critic. This is not always avoidable due to human emotions. Sometimes it takes hitting the ignore button, literally or figuratively.

I hope you decide to hang in there Dan. I know you work very hard at what you do and don't always get the credit that you deserve. Yeah, there are a bunch of us grumpy old men and professional critic wannabes out there and it can get demoralizing at times to have to put up with the naysayers. But for every naysayer you have at least ten "waytogosayers" who are pulling for you and anxiously awaiting your next round of creations that will drain our wallets and add to our credit card debt.


----------



## 2racer

*good product now gone*

I thought Dash had great products and was looking forward to the new releases that were coming. To bad the voices of negativity ruined it for the rest of us .


----------



## Montoya1

I still maintain that a few people making comments in the way AFXtoo describes in his as usual on the money and superb post should not be held responsible for the (probably temporary) loss of the Dash line, nor should those who felt Dan has the wrong way of dealing with such folk.


----------



## oddrods

Montoya,
Just out of curiosity, why are you still going on? You said what you wanted to say over and over. I'm not taking sides in this battle, it just seems as if you stopped fueling the fire, we could be done with this. 
Rob
Mongrel Racing


----------



## chaparrAL

You gotta push the button on the boy , get rid of him He becomes invisible. Believe me , he has nothing good to say. He was banned from Planet of Speed last week. they though a party. How long before he gets thrown out here? :wave:


----------



## SwamperGene

*There's archives ya know*

Last I checked we Americans didn't hang people for voicing a difference of opinion. Both our own words and those of others get misconstrued time and time again on the boards, add in a sprinkling of cultural differences and mayhem ensues. This is no longer about Montoya being an idiot or not (tounge in cheek Deane), it's about restricting someone's freedom and last I checked it was what we fought _those guys_ for in the first place.

How 'bout this...everyone who votes to ban Montoya link to a specific post where he has _posted_ an _offending comment towards you personally_. 

At least that way ya'all lose the appearance of lemmings jumping over a cliff.

:thumbsup:


----------



## Montoya1

Can we use other fora Swamp, or must it be restricted to HT?


----------



## SwamperGene

lol

For what it's worth, of course HT only...this issue isn't about other forums.


----------



## chaparrAL

You don't need to ban him, what to do is everyone push the ignore button. That will render him ghost status to you,and everything he posts will only be read by him. all by himself. Too bad Dan let the ninny get to him. Gotta push that button!


----------



## Montoya1

SwamperGene said:


> lol
> 
> 
> 
> For what it's worth, of course HT only...this issue isn't about other forums.



Spoil sport


----------



## ParkRNDL

I have been holding back, afraid to post much on this thread, as I don't know what I have to add that would be of any use. But at the same time, this is a community, and if I'm part of it, maybe I should speak my mind. I LOVE Dash's products, I look forward to all the new stuff Dan puts out, and I will miss his stuff if it goes away. If I'm participating in the community, I might as well get it out there. So here goes. 

First of all, part of why I haven't posted is because I couldn't find the words to articulate what I was thinking. I hope you don't mind, AfxToo, if I jump in and borrow most of what you said, because when I read it, I thought, "Ha! That's it! That's exactly right!" 



AfxToo said:


> Any time you put yourself out there and there is an unmoderated and open forum for critique, be it online or otherwise, you are opening yourself up to scrutiny. This kind of comes with the territory. No matter how good you are, no matter how much your products are prized, no matter how flawlessly you executed on your creative vision and your business plan, you will have detractors and negative opinions. Negative critiques and comments can come from a variety of directions, be it technically oriented ones ("the body line is off or a window shape is off a smidge"), personal preferences ("why did you pick THAT color?"), and one's that reflect a personal flaw or prejudice in the reviewer (the "I will never buy a product from Brand X" and personal attacks) variety. As someone whose products are being scrutinized you have to be prepared for negative critiques in the first two categories, technical and personal preferences, but ones in the last category you just have to learn to ignore.


Yes. I have seen this before. Repeatedly. A new Dash body comes out. I think it's great, and will get a few next chance I have. You guys may remember my comparisons of Dash/Aurora Galaxies. But then someone posts and points out a flaw, a problem, something. I think on the Chevelles it was the rear bumper. On the Oldsmobiles it might have been a wheelbase or screwposts issue. I don't care, I have several of each, I like them. This is a hobby, that's what you do, you work with the stuff. If I needed a warranty and return policy, I'd have gone to Walmart. Notice, though, that they don't sell this stuff... that's why I'm grateful for people like Dan who do.

Anyway, Dan sees the post, takes it as a slam, gets angry. Is he justified? I don't know. On the one hand, it seems like there is a legitimate flaw or issue to be dealt with. On the other, the guy posting the problem hasn't stepped up to make a better one. So I guess you could see it either way. Personally, I like to know stuff like that, so I know what I'll be doing when I pick mine up or how others have worked with it. But from what I understand, there's not much Dan can do after the fact... for purposes of economy, don't these things just get manufactured in one run? And even if there were multiple runs, is it possible/economically feasible to alter an existing mold? It's gotta be frustrating for Dan, but there it is. FWIW, AW gets slammed for stuff like that on this board all the time--gear mesh, body/chassis interference, out-of-round wheels, etc. Doesn't look like they're gonna change their body molds anytime soon... but first of all, hobbyists (like me) are buying them anyway, and second of all, products that are produced in larger quantities over a longer time, like chassis, DO get to evolve and change.



AfxToo said:


> To be clear, I have not read the forum where the altercation took place. I do have to say that I respect Deane and his right to articulate his opinions even when I do not agree with them. It's his prerogative to throw out an opinion. From what I have seen they are almost always of a technical or personal preferences/opinion nature. The latter category, personal opinion, can come across as being a personal attack if you do not understand that they are just one man's opinion, one very opinionated man's opinion, especially if you take umbrage to his opinion. But we all have opinions and they all count the same no matter how verbosely stated they may be. There's a risk of being over opinionated, you can be deemed irrelevant by loss of insight or questionable motivation, but there's an equal danger in turning around and transforming highly opinionated statements into personal attacks against the critic. This is not always avoidable due to human emotions. Sometimes it takes hitting the ignore button, literally or figuratively.


At the risk of getting run out of town, I have to say I pretty much agree. I have been posting on bulletin boards since I got back into the hobby about 10 years ago, and Deane has always been around. He has ideas about little toy cars just like I do. I can see where he can be opinionated, but why should that bother me? I've seen a bunch of brouhahas where Deane is told to shut up, and most of the time, I don't understand why. If you don't like what he says, so what? I'm not crazy about every different type of custom folks do on the board, nor do I see the point of some of the collecting techniques I see, and I don't have the time/money/interest to tune a Fray car to the nth degree, and I don't have much fun with magnet cars in general. So what? Other guys like this stuff, they post about it, I read and learn. I appreciate other guys' efforts, even if I don't share their specifics. Sometimes I learn something new. Sometimes I respond. Sometimes I get bored and lose interest in the thread. Deane is more likely to post an opinion about this stuff. Sometimes his opinion is different, but as AfxToo said, it usually has some rationale behind it, not just "I don't like that because it sucks." Don't like Deane's well-worded, fact-based opinion? No big deal, move on. Or post your differing opinion. No need to vote the guy off the island.

I gotta say, though, Deane, you do occasionally IMPLY stuff very carefully without saying it. So though you haven't come out and made a personal insult that a moderator could call you on, you have managed to disparage someone and ticked off a bunch of people in the process. I mean, look:



Montoya1 said:


> I still maintain that a few people making comments in the way AFXtoo describes in his as usual on the money and superb post should not be held responsible for the *(probably temporary)* loss of the Dash line, nor should those who felt Dan has the wrong way of dealing with such folk.


You're right. A few Batmobile comments and window post comments probably do not constitute a really good reason to shut down a manufacturing facility. And Dan has gotten angry and lashed out at the commentariat in the past, whether justified or not. That much we can quantify somewhat... we can go back and see how many comments were actually made on HOWL, trace the conversation back, point to some of Dan's other posts in the archives. But those words I added boldface to... what are you saying there? Careful how you answer, because I think it might be tough to explain them without sounding like you're personally slamming someone. That's the kind of little dig or insinuation that I think gets people in a tizzy... just my opinion.

Back to the subject at hand: 



AfxToo said:


> I hope you decide to hang in there Dan. I know you work very hard at what you do and don't always get the credit that you deserve. Yeah, there are a bunch of us grumpy old men and professional critic wannabes out there and it can get demoralizing at times to have to put up with the naysayers. But for every naysayer you have at least ten "waytogosayers" who are pulling for you and anxiously awaiting your next round of creations that will drain our wallets and add to our credit card debt.


Ditto. Count me as another "waytogosayer". My layout attempts to recreate the atmosphere of a kid's layout circa 1970, because that's my take on the hobby... it's kind of a flashback/time machine for me. Dan's bodies have added a great deal to that, and if the chassis were produced, it would add even more.

--rick


----------



## Montoya1

Park,

I did not mean anything by the part of my post that you bolded. To me adding that was no different to posting stuff like:

(IMHO)

(Allegedly)

and so on. A qualifier if you will.

I will leave it to others to blame me for the loss of Dash, I know the facts don't bear that out.

Regds - Deane


----------



## ParkRNDL

Yeah, but all those different ways of saying it... You're still implying something about Dan, something personal. The man said he's closing up shop. You're saying he's not? Why?

It may sound like I'm splitting hairs here, but I think this kind of thing is behind lots of other conflicts...

And like I said above, I respect your opinions and ideas about little cars as much as anyone else's, it just doesn't sound to me like that's about little cars...

--rick


----------



## Montoya1

I have an email from Lenny from some long time ago now in which he apologizes for the attacks on my adjustable magnet idea, compliments it and generally accepts that he can get in his own way. 

I am paraphrasing, and this détente did not last, but the point is that I have personal experience that Lenny can change his mind upon reflection and does sometimes recognize that to ignore is better than to insult.

Given the amount of people who want him to carry on, and the amount of money and work the guy has expended to date - it makes no sense to fold the whole thing over what amounts to almost nothing. I expect and hope he will draw the same conclusion soon enough.

Thats pretty much all there is to what I have been saying.


----------



## ParkRNDL

Thanks for clarifying that. Really, it changes my whole take on what you posted. Goes to show how if you don't know the backstory, you can very easily get the wrong idea, which, unfortunately, seems to be the nature of the Internet. I guess you understand that, without that information, most people reading your posts would have thought you were implying that Dan is making idle threats. With your clarification, it appears in a whole different light.

--rick


----------



## Montoya1

I could be wrong of course. I guess the cynic in me thinks about the financial implications of shutting up so abrubtly, at the same time the balanced person in me is repeatedly amazed anyone could get so wound up over some words on fora.


----------



## oddrods

" at the same time the balanced person in me is repeatedly amazed anyone could get so wound up over some words on fora."

Just had to get that last one in, didn't you.


----------



## Montoya1

Well, it is the the truth, I am amazed.

Most people I encounter on the internet and on email are like me, balanced. Like me they will have flaws, tastes, opinions. They might be like me, forthright when their opinion is derided (rather than debated, big difference) or they might be quiet as a mouse. They may post a lot, they may post a liitle and they come from a very diverse set of backgrounds, just as our racing group does - But what they do have in common is some sense of perspective on such activities and on life in general.

Some people get_ very_ upset by things that come their way via the internet. I don't know why. I should be blase about it by now, but there you have it, more often than not it suprises me...


----------



## martybauer31

Like many have said, putting your work up on display leads to both good and bad comments, with typically the good side being far in the majority, but the bad side, as with human nature being the most heard.

Dan makes amazing stuff and I own many of his product, but unfortunately he has the thinnest skin I have ever seen of a vendor on the boards. I totally get that his sweat equity makes him feel that way, but unfortunately it doesn't help him at all in cases where the troll monkeys of the internet feed off of things like that and just keep flinging their online poo. I think he might be better off just hosting his own site (like he is now) where he can post up what he is working on and what's new and ignore some of the junk that gets produced in the forums, as there seems to be constant friction when he gets close. This is why I don't read much at HOWL either, it's a pretty tough site at times.

And yes, Montoya is allowed his opinion, I just wish he had a better filter. He is like that guy that gets invited to the party and seems to be the one that will take the opposite opinion on anything and everything said just to be difficult. The consensus is that no one really likes him and doesn't want to see him again and yet at the next party.... there he is again, no filter, saying things that piss off most of the room.

At a real party, depending on the company, he'd either get roughed up or he would be sent packing through the front door for "not getting it". Here, he's allowed to come back and hang out whenever he feels like it, obviously looking to push buttons. He does get it and gets to act like the guy who has been confronted saying, "what did I say? I didn't say that, wasn't me..."

Dan, hope you change your mind and decide to continue, my suggestion would be to use the "ignore" functionality liberally and to keep doing what you do best.


----------



## lenny

lenny said:


> Dennis,
> This isn't about HOWL the other day. It's an ongoing battle that I seem to have with a vocal minority that likes to stick it to me when they can. You also fit that group. While my HOWL posts are moderated and many never see the light of day, it's acceptable for others to continue to slam me and the whole board gets a big laugh at Dans expense. If you don't know what I mean, read the post where it was suggested that I rename my company. Then read your response. Where is Bob when it comes to moderating these posts? Where is YOUR common sense when it comes time to stop the bashing?
> 
> This is just the lastest in a 5 year battle and I've had it. I don't have the energy for this anymore.
> 
> My nature is to defend myself. If the core argument is that as a vendor I'm excluded from that option, and if I continue to get in these battles everytime I post, obviously something needs to change. That change needs to come from me since the a-holes will still continue being a-holes. However, as I said, it's my nature to defend my products and myself. And that's not going to change. And when the moderator of HOWL continues to let people blast away at me and I have no recourse, that's unacceptable.
> 
> It's no longer fun, if it ever was. Every freaking thing I've tried to do has been a controversy. I'd probably have an easier go of it if I were a supreme court nominee... The magnets were a battle, the arm was an ongoing battle. The chassis was a failure waiting to happen. My product selection sucks.
> 
> Well, it's done. Thank you to the supporters for the last 6 years. The most fun I had was bringing the Super Mod to market. That was cool. It all went downhill from there.



Read the above post. This sums it up. To imply or deduce or offer an opinion to the contrary is just not the case. After 5 or 6 years of doing this, I no longer have the will, desire or passion to do so. I have emails sent the past few days from some select people from various boards telling me what I can do with my little plastic cars. I really don't need this. I don't need the hassle. I don't need the frustration. And lately, at least in the last 2 years, all it is is frustration. 

Again, thank you to the supporters.


----------



## ParkRNDL

Aw jeez. Ok, I will agree with the first part of your post, which was factual and rational, and pass over the second part, which is that personal implication thing I was hoping we could get past. Yeah, I know, you didn't say anything specific about him, but by saying you were amazed at his actions, you implied that they were wrong. Again, not about toy cars. 

--rick

edit: wow. Lots of people got in there. The above refers to post #114.


----------



## lenny

martybauer31 said:


> Dan makes amazing stuff and I own many of his product, but unfortunately _*he has the thinnest skin *_I have ever seen of a vendor on the boards. .


I don't agree. Remember back a few years when Tom Lowe actually started posting here? He no longer does that and one of his final posts was the infamous 'take it or leave it' post?


----------



## Montoya1

lenny said:


> . I have emails sent the past few days from some select people from various boards telling me what I can do with my little plastic cars. .


But many, many more giving support and encouragement, surely?


----------



## Montoya1

lenny said:


> I don't agree. Remember back a few years when Tom Lowe actually started posting here? He no longer does that and one of his final posts was the infamous 'take it or leave it' post?


I remember it well.

Since that time others from AW come here instead and the company keeps on keepin on. So there you have it...


----------



## lenny

Montoya1 said:


> I have an email from Lenny from some long time ago now in which he apologizes for the attacks on my adjustable magnet idea, compliments it and generally accepts that he can get in his own way.
> 
> I am paraphrasing, and this détente did not last, but the point is that I have personal experience that Lenny can change his mind upon reflection and does sometimes recognize that to ignore is better than to insult.
> 
> Given the amount of people who want him to carry on, and the amount of money and work the guy has expended to date - it makes no sense to fold the whole thing over what amounts to almost nothing. I expect and hope he will draw the same conclusion soon enough.
> 
> Thats pretty much all there is to what I have been saying.


Except in saying this, Deane, you implied I was lying, and that this was a ploy (pull this stunt again...). WHY?


----------



## lenny

Montoya1 said:


> I remember it well.
> 
> Since that time others from AW come here instead and the company keeps on keepin on. So there you have it...


Yes, there you have it. I don't have the luxury of a staff.


----------



## lenny

Montoya1 said:


> But many, many more giving support and encouragement, surely?


And yet other, like you, calling me a liar and questioning my true motives.


----------



## Montoya1

lenny said:


> Yes, there you have it. I don't have the luxury of a staff.


Fair enough. Just post and ignore any responses that threaten to upset your equilibrium then.


----------



## Montoya1

lenny said:


> And yet other, like you, calling me a liar and questioning my true motives.


Nothing anywhere nearly so dramatic. I believe that right now you don't feel like carrying on, but that you will change your mind. Only time will tell.


----------



## martybauer31

lenny said:


> I don't agree. Remember back a few years when Tom Lowe actually started posting here? He no longer does that and one of his final posts was the infamous 'take it or leave it' post?


LOL, ok, you are 100% correct Dan, nice call!


----------



## Montoya1

lenny said:


> Except in saying this, Deane, you implied I was lying, and that this was a ploy (pull this stunt again...). WHY?


As a poster above said guessing what one feels another forum user is implying is not always the best of ideas.

If you left, came back and then you said you were leaving the hobby a second time for similar reasons, I think that could well be described as a stunt.


----------



## ParkRNDL

lenny said:


> After 5 or 6 years of doing this, I no longer have the will, desire or passion to do so. I have emails sent the past few days from some select people from various boards telling me what I can do with my little plastic cars. I really don't need this. I don't need the hassle. I don't need the frustration. And lately, at least in the last 2 years, all it is is frustration.
> 
> Again, thank you to the supporters.


hey Dan, bear with me a minute...

I'm trying to get some clarification, some perspective, a better understanding of what's going on here, because it doesn't make a lot of sense to me. So I want to get away from the emotion and fighting and ask about facts and numbers. 

1. How many cars have you sold thus far? Approximate, ballpark number. 

2. How many people to date have a problem with your product? Not with your PR or your forum posts, but with your cars. 

My SWAG was gonna be between 10,000 and 20,000 cars, based on my totally uninformed knowledge of slot car shows and vendor sites, and between 10 and 20 true detractors, based on my similarly incomplete knowledge of slot car bulletin boards. Dude, that's a better track record than Toyota. Seriously, even though I'm sure my numbers are way off, I have to believe the supporters outweigh the detractors by enough to keep on going and feel good about how many people buy your product... 

Am I way off base here?

--rick


----------



## resinmonger

I am truly amazed that somebody would _imply_ that another person is imbalanced:



Montoya1 said:


> ... at the same time the balanced person in me is repeatedly amazed anyone could get so wound up over some words on fora.





Montoya1 said:


> Well, it is the the truth, I am amazed.
> 
> Most people I encounter on the internet and on email are like me, balanced...


In my opinion, questioning the mental stability of another person is a personal attack on the person and I am stunned that such behavior is tolerated.


----------



## medic57

That Ghostbusters car with the cherries on top looks like it has boobies on top.


----------



## Montoya1

resinmonger said:


> and I am stunned that such behavior is tolerated.


I think you are really stretching now.


----------



## resinmonger

Montoya1 said:


> I think you are really stretching now.


As a fair minded person, I am dismayed by your comment.


----------



## medic57

Ahh yes, HAL 9000, 1 letter backwards in the alphabet from,
IBM, kind of spooky.


----------



## medic57

I've had a few Dash Bodies, I always thought they were neat, especially the Dodge Little Red Wagon.


----------



## Montoya1

medic57 said:


> Ahh yes, HAL 9000, 1 letter backwards in the alphabet from,
> 
> IBM, kind of spooky.


ACC had to withstand being questioned about that for two decades plus!

What is the relevance though?


----------



## Griffworks

While we all have the right to state our opinions, that ends when you insult other members. _That goes for everyone in this thread_. It's one thing to make an observation in an objective manner, it's another to make insults. 

*Montoya1*, you're getting you're last Warning from me on the subject - next time is a Seven Day Time Out. 

I don't see a positive, productive reason for this thread to continue, so I'm locking it.


----------

