# A 1/24 Jupiter 2



## starseeker2 (Jun 13, 2008)

Edit: moved the pictures down to post #16, top of page 2.

News of the upcoming Moebius Jupiter 2 kit got me so excited about the Jupiter 2 I decided to dig my old 1/24 build out of storage. I built this between about 1986 and 1988, using basic stone tools and stone-age techniques. The hull is home made vac form, the lights are 3V mini bulbs and the first led chaser Christmas lights that hit the market. Most of it is styrene but there is a lot of wood and bits of metal involved. The interior is an exact a replica as I could make from copies of the studio bps. The hull contour was modified slightly to fit, as for me on this one the interior was the focus, and a 1/24 interior won't quite fit inside an 1/24 Jupiter 2 miniature replica. The vertical walls behind the ladder and the glide tube require that both the overall diameter and the height of the upper hull be increased slightly. This model is 24" in diameter, the absolute smallest I could make it, so that the airlock didn't turn into a hallway. 
I literally haven't seen this model in at least 15 years. It was stored covered with a sheet and with all my built up (and all the available to the late '90s) Star Trek and Star Wars kits heaped on top of it. For me the fun of modeling is the building, not the having. So my builds take a long time and when they're done, after a year or two of looking at them, they get binned into storage.) It has survived surprisingly well, only a couple cracks and dents. Plus the damage I did to it yesterday trying to figure out how everything worked. (It was like going up into a strangers attic and discovering this model that I'd never seen before. Even tho I'd built the thing.)


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## starseeker2 (Jun 13, 2008)

I'll post a dozen pictures. Even that's probably overkill. I know the picture quality still isn't great but they are better than my first try. I'll figure out how to get a clear shot of that circuitry board yet.


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## starseeker2 (Jun 13, 2008)

Each of the lights on all the controls inside is lit by a fibre optic. I used a zillion strands from old fibre optic table lamps that were everywhere back then. The strands are sourced back to the flashing lights on the "fusion core". They look like they are flashing in a random pattern unless you watch closely, when you can tell that they're actually an 8 pattern sequence. 
The astrogator raises up on an old walkie talkie (anyone remember them?) antenna. The control panel chair extends and folds up and out but I have no idea how I'm supposed to get to it. Maybe my hands were smaller?
All the panels open and close - the NGS scanners, the hatch and beside the hatch viewports, the observation dome at the top of the ladder, the crash shields - and the landing gear retracts. I can't find the observation dome or the NGS scanners but they have to be around here somewhere. The fins extend. 
I've got this horrible feeling that I'll keep this thing out until I'm finished a couple current projects and then I'll slice and dice it and add some lightsheet and LEDs and circuit boards so I can run it all off a 9 volt battery, instead of the 1.5 amp Volkswagen sized transformer that it's got now. And add 20 more years modeling experience and references. (No internet in those days. Those crash doors are supposed to be gold colored.) 
Hey, where are the hatch controls??? See, this thing ain't finished yet! I guess no model ever is.
What fun it will be when Moebius releases their kit. It's not that much smaller than this (this is 24") so there will be plenty of room for some truly crazy detailing. I don't know how, but I just know Teslabe is going to animate his. Bobbing general alarm? Circling astrogator? Motorized landing gear? Oh, it's going to be fun to see, as are all the others. And to build. 
Anyway, back to the Chariot...


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Looks like the real thing!!! 

Great work!!! :thumbsup:


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## charonjr (Mar 27, 2000)

Starseeker, your mention of the observation bubble at the top of the ladder triggered a flash memory from when I was a kid: I could have sworn that Don was shown fixing something up in the bubble. I don't think I've seen that since. Not sure if it actually happened, but the image in my mind is very strong.


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

The observation bubble hatch is shown on the bp for the topside of the J2, I think, and I'm equally fuzzily sure that it's shown from the side, with the bubble in up and down positions, in the bp for the full scale mockup with landing gear, which was mostly seen in a 3d season episode. I have vague memories of Don up there, too, but for the life of me I can't remember when.


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## JPhil123 (Jan 1, 1970)

starseeker2 said:


> News of the upcoming Moebius Jupiter 2 kit got me so excited about the Jupiter 2 I decided to dig my old 1/24 build out of storage. I built this between about 1986 and 1988, using basic stone tools and stone-age techniques. The hull is home made vac form, the lights are 3V mini bulbs and the first led chaser Christmas lights that hit the market. Most of it is styrene but there is a lot of wood and bits of metal involved. The interior is an exact a replica as I could make from copies of the studio bps. The hull contour was modified slightly to fit, as for me on this one the interior was the focus, and a 1/24 interior won't quite fit inside an 1/24 Jupiter 2 miniature replica. The vertical walls behind the ladder and the glide tube require that both the overall diameter and the height of the upper hull be increased slightly. This model is 24" in diameter, the absolute smallest I could make it, so that the airlock didn't turn into a hallway.
> I literally haven't seen this model in at least 15 years. It was stored covered with a sheet and with all my built up (and all the available to the late '90s) Star Trek and Star Wars kits heaped on top of it. For me the fun of modeling is the building, not the having. So my builds take a long time and when they're done, after a year or two of looking at them, they get binned into storage.) It has survived surprisingly well, only a couple cracks and dents. Plus the damage I did to it yesterday trying to figure out how everything worked. (It was like going up into a strangers attic and discovering this model that I'd never seen before. Even tho I'd built the thing.)


Hello,
I think your buildup looks just terrific. Some of the interior pictures look like pictures of sets themselves! If there are a few dents, those meteors the Jupiter 2 ran into once or twice could be to blame. You could always consider refreshing it (maybe some putty and repainting) merely to make it like new again, but it really looks fantastic. I thought I saw fusion core fins: they really add something to an in-flight or landing gear down version of the ship. 

When I build up the new Moebius kit, I plan to add fins if they are not part of the stock kit. I have several Polar Lights Jupiter 2s corrected and built, as well as several of the Lunar Models kits, and since the announcement of a new Jupiter 2 I've been thinking of bashing it into the Gemini XII (I'm one of the guys who post here who love the Gemini XII version). The lower hull depth would be difficult to correct, but if the kit could be otherwise modified in all other ways to resemble the Gemini XII, the hull issue is something I could live with.

Thanks for sharing; would love to see more pictures!

Jim


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## GKvfx (May 30, 2008)

Fantastic effort - especially given the timeframe involved. If you want to get better pictures, try setting the color balance to tungsten (icon probably looks like a lightbulb) and things will look a lot less yellow. The effort deserves better pictures.

Everyone's gonna love it.

Gene


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## Gemini1999 (Sep 25, 2008)

That is just......well, amazing! Looking at this model and realizing that it's all scratch built with the level of detail on this just blows me away. Sliding hatches, crash shields, ramp, retracting landing gear and then all the lights, fiber optics, panels, etc. I even see "wiring" on the cryo tube mechanisms. It really does look like pics of a standing set from the series, not a scale model.

All of the details and workings that any of us would love to have in a scale model of the Jupiter 2 and you did it all on your own.

I'm just gobsmacked and downright jealous looking at it.

Bryan


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## Tim Nolan (Jul 9, 2008)

That's incredible. It does look like shots of the "real" thing! Your scratch building efforts are marvelous! :thumbsup:


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## AJ-1701 (May 10, 2008)

Starseeker that is one damn fine build. :thumbsup::thumbsup:

Makes my scratch built cardbourd thunderhawk look like... well cardboard.

Cheers,

Alec.


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## Sonett (Jul 21, 2003)

Very cool interior work, not to mention the custom hull. I still have a Lunar 24" left over somewhere that I plan on outfitting with a detailed interior like yours. Thanks for sharing your work with us!

Phil


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## flyingfrets (Oct 19, 2001)

GKvfx said:


> If you want to get better pictures, try setting the color balance to tungsten (icon probably looks like a lightbulb) and things will look a lot less yellow. The effort deserves better pictures.
> Gene


Actually, I think the yellow cast *adds* to the photos. They're not quite sepia, but it gives a smoothed monochromatic effect (reminicent of the show's original B&W). For effect, I think the photos look just right as is.

Now from a *builder's* point of view, I agree with your assesment. It'd be great to see all that detail in a better balanced light. 

I'll give him a pefect 10 not only for the build, but the artistic presentation as well. :thumbsup:


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## Nemorosus (Feb 1, 2002)

Very Cool! Thanks for sharing the pix!


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## LIS FAN 4ever (Jan 18, 2009)

Man - Outstanding job on your J2! You did it right. Thanks for sharing ... Gary


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## starseeker2 (Jun 13, 2008)

Thought I'd resurrect this long dead thread and add a few photos of my current Jupiter 2 build. 
First off, this is my old 24" 1/24 scratch built Jupiter 2, dating from the mid or late '80s. I did take some photos of the build process but most seem to have been long lost. 
The new Moebius kit got me interested in building another of these, using a few years more experience and some better tools and paints. Not to mention new fangled gadgets like LEDs and stepper motors.


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## starseeker2 (Jun 13, 2008)

The new Moebius kit got me interested in building another of these, using a few years more experience and some better tools and paints. Not to mention new fangled gadgets like LEDs and stepper motors.
I've managed to get enough done now that I feel like I could start a build thread that would actually show some building. So here goes.
Throughout I used the Fox blueprints and the Jupiter 2 drawings I made from them as my interior plans.
The first step was the girders. Simply stuck 16 pieces of 040 styrene together with double sided tape and shaped them.


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## starseeker2 (Jun 13, 2008)

Once the girders were shaped, I glued a 1/4" 020 strip over the faces, thin enough that light will be able to shine through, and edged the fronts with 020 x 040 strip. Walls were cut out and fitted into place. I laminated a center ring for the ceiling and glued on attachment points for the girders.


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## starseeker2 (Jun 13, 2008)

Next up was the glide tube. Building the cage scared me at first. I knew it had to be exactly spaced or it would look obviously wrong. A couple holes in a piece of scrap plywood were all I need for a jig to keep everything perfectly aligned. A piece of styrene served as a gauge to keep the rungs the exact same distance apart. I soldered some brass tubing together, slid some smaller brass tubing inside the horizontal tubes, soldered an end in place, and with very little effort, even for the world's worst solderer, I had a cage with an opening gate.


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## starseeker2 (Jun 13, 2008)

Tops and bottoms for the freezing tubes were cut from more layers of 040 double side taped together. I used a home madecircle sanding jig on my bench sander to make the rounds, but any circle cutter (or scissors) would do. They were edged around the circumference with laminations of 020 strip of various widths. 
Tho not at all necessary, I made the instrument panels from home made etch. I thought it would be easier to use the holes in the etch as guides for drilling out the hundreds of holes for the fibre optics that will light everything. 
I was playing with some 1/24 figures and the Moebius 1/24 Robot in the control room and I just couldn't stand looking at the Robot's legs anymore, so I had to correct them.


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## starseeker2 (Jun 13, 2008)

The legs are just laminations of styrene. 
I find it at least as easy to scratch build as it is for me to detail a kit, with having to remove bits and refinish and then make the new detail and fit it in. Like renovating a house. Sometimes it's easier just to start from nothing. 
Those buttons on the cabin control are not crooked. The do line up with holes for the lights, despite what the photo looks like.
The ladder is simply 030 x 030. The rungs are attached to plates that are just very thin rounds from a bit of styrene tubing.


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## starseeker2 (Jun 13, 2008)

That's pretty much it for now. I don't have a lot of time to model so I try to squeeze in an hour or two whenever I can.
I'm trying to add as much detail as I can. Every light should light. Everything that moves should move. The chair folds. The hatches and doors open. 
It's been a couple of months puttering around with this (and the lower deck, and several other projects at the same time) to have made it this far. Next up: a proper floor that I can run wiring and fibre through (complicated by the fact that this has to sit on top of the lower deck so I have <1/2" to work with) and start vac forming the freezing tubes and domes. The freezing tube walls. The main control panels. Details, details, details. Probably won't update this for a couple of months until there's something else to show. 
In the meantime, what a blast!


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## j2man (Jun 18, 1999)

Amazing work! I am very envious........


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## bert model maker (Feb 19, 2002)

outstanding !!!


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## X15-A2 (Jan 21, 2004)

It is curious that I get the feeling that I'm seeing the actual set under construction when looking at your model. Really great work, please continue to keep us updated on your progress.


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## Fernando Mureb (Nov 12, 2006)

Starseeker
Amazing work!!
Thanks


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## Sonett (Jul 21, 2003)

Very amazing! Please keep posting.


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## Seaview (Feb 18, 2004)

Believe it or not, when you first posted pics of your scratchbuilt interior lo these many moons ago, I selected one of them to be my screensaver! A MASTERFUL JOB, sir!


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## kimba32003 (Dec 17, 2008)

I'm gobsmacked............Your modelling skills are off the scale Starseeker, just amazing. I'll be watching this thread for more pics, DEFINATELY !!


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## starseeker2 (Jun 13, 2008)

Thanks, and Seaview - I'm honored! 
It's easy to get pretty burned out on repetitive tasks, like making the grids for the panels behind the freezing tubes. Four out of 6 and then crashed. An occasional diversion is the perfect antidote. I've always meant to build the radar scanner that was never seen in Invaders From the 5th. A small fun bit that's re-energized me. Of course, now I have to put all the knobs and switches on three scanner panels...
Sigh. Just looked at the picture. Yes, that's a giant wad of cat fur stuck to the corner of it. I really don't know how I'm going to get any of this painted.


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

X15-A2 said:


> It is curious that I get the feeling that I'm seeing the actual set under construction when looking at your model. Really great work, please continue to keep us updated on your progress.


Grills ready to go in behind the freezing tubes. Crew looking confused: human ready to knock off for the day, Robot wishing he had thumbs. Or even claws.


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## starseeker2 (Jun 13, 2008)

Photoetch is great for capturing fine detail or exact detail, like the spacing of the lamps in the Jupiter 2's various computer consoles. When I built my first 1/24 J2, I wished I could have done the computer panels in etch so that all the thousands of little holes would like up in perfect grids. Which is why I made some etch this time. 

The etch sure isn't essential for the control room but it does make for an easy layout. 

The problem with etch is that it is flat. You can get a little relief by laminating layers but even 4 layers will give you a total thickness of only 020" or so. You might as well be layering decals. 

So if you're using etch (or decals) in your Jupiter 2s or Seaviews of Flying Subs, you might want to consider detailing the etch with some bits of styrene strip and rod to give your panels a third dimension. Someone on a Moebius thread wrote recently wrote about how to keep their Jupiter 2 control panels from looking toy-like. This is how. 

Give the etch a very light fine sanding. Put a three or four drops of fresh thin ca/superglue into a small disposable plastic cup. Cut a chisel like point into the end of a thin plastic rod (or a toothpick) and place a tiny drop of ca onto the brass where you want the bit to go. With the pointed tip of a fresh #11 blade, transfer the bit to the ca dot. If there is excess ca, wick it away with the edge of a bit of paper towel. You have to keep sharpening the tip of the ca application device so you don't get too big a drop onto your brass. After everything is in place, you can go back over each bit and just touch the smallest amount of ca to the edge of the object and capillary action with suck it right underneath. After the pieces have cured, you can go back over the tops of the knobs, say, and gently sand them to a scale height. 

Which I haven't done yet in these photos. These panels are still under construction - still have to sand the knobs down and make tiny toggle switches and drill out for the fibres and make lenses, etc, but even their very crude state the simplest of additions are bringing the panels to life. Much more so than I'd ever dreamed.

To make the small disks that some of the knobs sit on, I use a home made punch. Just a bit of brass tube with the proper inside diameter. Round the inside with a small round file. Bevel the outside edge with a flat file till it's reasonably sharp. Place the end over a bit of 020 styrene, say, and give it a bump with a small hammer. Push the disk out of the tube with the flat end of the biggest drill bit that will fit inside the slightly mangled hammer end of the tube. You may have to re-round the inside and re-sharpen the outside from time to time. Of course if you're one of those people who have a fancy miniature punch and die set, you have absolutely no excuse not to be doing this. 

Painting will be a bit of a challenge, but only because now there are so many details to paint. Black scanner square, then pick out all the grey knobs, add the light lenses from underneath, then with a very fine brush or (better) a needle applicator, a thin black wash around the knobs and lenses. Capillary action will draw the wash tight around their bases and they should look stunning. 

Once you get started, this goes really fast. Mine would be getting done a lot faster if I wasn't spending so much time just looking at it. It looks a lot better in person than enlarged in the photos where all the goofs are so magnified. Man, I just love looking at this...


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## skinnyonce (Dec 17, 2009)

starseeker2 said:


> Photoetch is great for capturing fine detail or exact detail, like the spacing of the lamps in the Jupiter 2's various computer consoles. When I built my first 1/24 J2, I wished I could have done the computer panels in etch so that all the thousands of little holes would like up in perfect grids. Which is why I made some etch this time.
> 
> The etch sure isn't essential for the control room but it does make for an easy layout.
> 
> ...




That looks really great,
being yours is in 1/24, does this mean i can do this at 1/35 also. or is the scale a little to small to bother with


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

skinnyonce said:


> That looks really great,
> being yours is in 1/24, does this mean i can do this at 1/35 also. or is the scale a little to small to bother with


Only you can answer that question. From the 1/32-35 armor I've seen and read about, it doesn't appear that any serious (ie insane) armor modeller would be content to build without serious added detail. I'd try some experiments on scrap plastic and see what you think. Bigger scales are always easier to work with. If I was doing this full size, I think I'd be finished and living in it by now. 

If you're needing to use really fine rod, a better alternative is to use a pin vise and drill holes through the panel (with the etch or decal in place), insert the rod from the front, cement it from the back, and, if needed, sand the back flat. You can also pre-paint the rod before inserting and when you sand the switches and knobs to the right height, just touch up the top surface. This would probably have been a good idea for me to have done but I'm stupidly leaving all the painting till later. Mostly because I'm such a klutz I'd probably mess up all my pre-painted work with a cement disaster. As early this very AM, when I poured half a bottle of ProWeld over my Chariot control panel. Sigh.


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

On another thread, Skinnyonce posted a link
http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showpost.php?p=3282216&postcount=31 
to a great video showing someone shaping an acrylic rod into a lighted ornament for his car and suggested it might be possible to incorporate something like that into a Jupiter 2. 

The (slightly modified) technique: get an acrylic rod that fits inside the Jupiter 2s lighted beams. In a 300 degree oven (let your oven preheat for 20 minutes) place a piece of that rod onto a foil covered baking sheet. Let it sit for 4 minutes. Take the sheet out of the oven. Press a piece of wood cut into the shape you need against into the rod and wrap the rod around the template. Slide both template and rod off onto a cool surface and hold the rod in place until it has cooled a bit. Then tape the rod to the template and weight its tips lightly to let it cool flat and to shape. 

Trim the rods to the length you need. Sand the inside surface of the rod very roughly. The video showed it being lightly scored, but the scoring shows up as individual light sources.
http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showpost.php?p=3314001&postcount=37
Sanding evens out the light along the length of the rod. Then drill small holes into the tips of the rod and inset small leds. Or sand leds to the size you need, sand flat the tips, and cement them to two ends of the rod. Cover the back of the rod with something reflective like bare metal foil or chrome tape. Insert and light up.

With the moebius kit as it, you could get away with just a short straight rod lit from both ends. It would work brilliantly. 

These are the very rough results of my experiment. The wall beams aren't light proofed so there is leakage everywhere right now. The reflective surface on the back of the rods wasn't done that carefully. It's just a very quick and dirty experiment that in a few minutes has turned out better than the light bulbs in my 80's J2 and shows a smooth, almost even illumination along the whole beam. It is a little dimmer around the curve but a rougher inside surface and better reflectivity on the back will probably help. Or a 3d led obliquely placed. I will keep fiddling. It may be possible to get the effect with two straight units instead of one curved on. Which would save baking time. But the last picture is how the experiment looks to the naked eye. It is somewhat overexposed still but the light really is this even. 

Thanks again Skinnyonce. This is going to work!


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## WEAPON X (Mar 5, 2006)

starseeker said:


> On another thread, Skinnyonce posted a link
> http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showpost.php?p=3282216&postcount=31
> to a great video showing someone shaping an acrylic rod into a lighted ornament for his car and suggested it might be possible to incorporate something like that into a Jupiter 2.
> 
> ...


I'll have to try this method with my 1:26 scale J2 project!


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## Fernando Mureb (Nov 12, 2006)

Starseeker
Thanks for the tips. :thumbsup:
This method is by far much easier than the use of several tiny LEDs as made by that Japanese guy (although a little less faithful to the original filming set).


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

This has the advantage of providing a relatively even light level over the length of the beam. Further work on properly baffling everything, and perhaps more roughly sanding around curve, might even the brightness along the length even more? Tho' I have to admit I'm already pretty satisfied (bearing in mind that I haven't baffled the leds at all). On the Japanese fellow's J2, in the photos that aren't overexposed, you can see that each led shows as an individual light point. On the set, they used enough low wattage light bulbs and/or a thick enough diffusing material that the light beams appeared uniformly, evenly, softly illuminated. I think Skinnyonce might have found the perfect way of replicating this.


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

Starseeker, I can't see the photos of your buildup. Did you remove them?


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

Out of attachment space so I moved them to:
http://s1004.photobucket.com/albums/af170/jkirkphotos/24 Scale Jupiter 2 Build/
Must update them soon.


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

Made 8 light tubes for the wall beams. First picture shows the bare curved acrylic tube, the tube with flattened leds epoxied onto the ends, a strip of thick bbq foil cemented to the back half with Micro Metal Adhesive (bare metal foil seemed too fragile for the beating I'm giving these), and a tube with some foil and black tape light shields around the leds and the leds joined by wires. 
The second picture shows the light tubes slipped into the wall beams. They still need some adjusting and of course the beams need to be made light tight but I'm really pleased by the results so far.


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## Fozzie (May 25, 2009)

Man, those look awesome...! :thumbsup:


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## skinnyonce (Dec 17, 2009)

starseeker said:


> Made 8 light tubes for the wall beams. First picture shows the bare curved acrylic tube, the tube with flattened leds epoxied onto the ends, a strip of thick bbq foil cemented to the back half with Micro Metal Adhesive (bare metal foil seemed too fragile for the beating I'm giving these), and a tube with some foil and black tape light shields around the leds and the leds joined by wires.
> The second picture shows the light tubes slipped into the wall beams. They still need some adjusting and of course the beams need to be made light tight but I'm really pleased by the results so far.


Starseeker,

those look pretty darn good

as in the original vid I posted, did you clear/polish the ends of the acryl rod to allow max light penetration, before install the led... that may allow a bit more light to enter the rod


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

Yes, I polished both the ends of the rod (using a felt wheel in the Dremel - wear eye protection!!!) and the flat sanded end of the leds. I don't know what kind of plastic the video man was using but nail polish stuff (I tried straight acetone) didn't do a thing to either surface). I used clear epoxy to cement the two together, mostly as I hoped it would stay clear and not fog the joint, but partly because I don't trust CA to make a strong enough joint. 
Last night I adjusted their positions within the beams a bit and sanded the foil around the leds a little, making openings in the foil under the leds slightly narrower than the 1/2 mask I have around the rest of the rods, as the leds are the bright spots and I thought if I narrowed the amount of light escaping there it might even the brightness some. And it did. 
Also remember that the edges of my wall beams are surfaced with a .020 x .250 strip of styrene, so what you're seeing here is the light of the rod shinging through a strip of 020 styrene. That helps diffuse the light some but it also must darken it some as well. I'll paint the insides of the beams with a chrome paint which may brighten the light more and the outsides with flat black which of course will block all the light leaks you now see. 
Skinnyonce, that was the all time best tip I've ever found in all these years surfing the 'net. Thanks again. 
Now I guess it's time to go and finish the freezing tube walls. Once they are lit, the upper deck will be practically daylight. The Fox set designers planned the light really well to be dramatic, dark enough that it didn't wash out great details like the astrogator top lights and the glowing gyroscope and circuitry panels and still be bright enough that the Robinsons could read, say. Only after the pilot when they open up the ceiling and shine down the stage lights is it shopping mall bright. Also lost all its drama then, unless they lucked off a good director. 
First have to finish the stupid astrogator control panel. It's taken me weeks of my spare time, trying to figure out and fabricate a tiny spring mechanism that lets the control panel pop up when you pull the tiny lever. I don't know why I'm doing this. Just the challenge, I guess. But I did figure something out. All that's left to add (finally!) is the bottom plate. And then finish the freezing walls. And then start painting.


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## skinnyonce (Dec 17, 2009)

Well starseeker,
each and every photo looks better than the first I would say you got it down, If we could find someone to cut the beam walls for the moebus kit as a after market kit we be good to go....

I can only take credit for posting the video to this site, not the idea itself.. but I am glad we all can use the idea and the fact you made it work for the rest of us to copy,,:thumbsup:

cant wait to see the other applications this light idea might produce for other kits and such :wave:

skinnyonce.........


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## Fernando Mureb (Nov 12, 2006)

starseeker said:


> First have to finish the stupid astrogator control panel. It's taken me weeks of my spare time, trying to figure out and fabricate a tiny spring mechanism that lets the control panel pop up when you pull the tiny lever. I don't know why I'm doing this. Just the challenge, I guess. But I did figure something out.


 I do not believe it!!  After that, what else is left for someone to do? You, teslabe, ductape, Ya3 and others are simply rebuilding the set and miniature. I can't wait to see the thing working. :thumbsup:


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

A nice thing about the Jupiter 2 is that when you suddenly start to feel overwhelmed with it all, when you just don't feel like doing another part of the same thing, you can always move on and tackle a different bit. Did not feel like doing any sanding last night so instead I spent about an hour with some strip and quarter round roughing this up. I know it's second season, but I've always liked it. And what makes these things more fun is the thought that they might be the only 1/24 (or 1/32) scale models of such familiar objects in the world.


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## skinnyonce (Dec 17, 2009)

starseeker said:


> A nice thing about the Jupiter 2 is that when you suddenly start to feel overwhelmed with it all, when you just don't feel like doing another part of the same thing, you can always move on and tackle a different bit. Did not feel like doing any sanding last night so instead I spent about an hour with some strip and quarter round roughing this up. I know it's second season, but I've always liked it. And what makes these things more fun is the thought that they might be the only 1/24 (or 1/32) scale models of such familiar objects in the world.


Not being familiar with scratchbuilding myself, 
that looks like fun taking and making something from a known dimension or photo for reference, nice work starseeker,

Ive always wanted to build a force field generator, or drilling rig, as seen on the show, any ideas there for plans


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

I was just looking at my 20-some year old force field this morning. I don't know exactly what's happened: the metal (brass? copper?) strips I used on it are very corroded. It is wired for a couple of lights but that wouldn't explain the decay. ??
I do have a couple drawings of the 1st season force field at:
http://s1004.photobucket.com/albums/af170/jkirkphotos/My Chariot Drawings/
There are many great shots of the 2nd season top unit in the Voyage episode Cradle of the Deep.
Somewhere I have drawings of the laser drill. I think I finished the 1st season version but not the 2nd. I'll see if I can find them.


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## Fernando Mureb (Nov 12, 2006)

starseeker said:


> A nice thing about the Jupiter 2 is that when you suddenly start to feel overwhelmed with it all, when you just don't feel like doing another part of the same thing, you can always move on and tackle a different bit. Did not feel like doing any sanding last night so instead I spent about an hour with some strip and quarter round roughing this up. I know it's second season, but I've always liked it. And what makes these things more fun is the thought that they might be the only 1/24 (or 1/32) scale models of such familiar objects in the world.


Man, simply great!! :thumbsup:


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

Found my laser drill and water condenser drawings and posted large versions to:
http://s1004.photobucket.com/albums/af170/jkirkphotos/My Chariot Drawings/
Both were made many years ago, long before I found a partial blueprint for the water condenser on line. But it's darn close, definitely close enough for 1/24 or 1/32 scale. 
Somewhere I'm pretty sure I have the sonic washer but it's MIA right now.


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## skinnyonce (Dec 17, 2009)

starseeker said:


> Found my laser drill and water condenser drawings and posted large versions to:
> http://s1004.photobucket.com/albums/af170/jkirkphotos/My Chariot Drawings/
> Both were made many years ago, long before I found a partial blueprint for the water condenser on line. But it's darn close, definitely close enough for 1/24 or 1/32 scale.
> Somewhere I'm pretty sure I have the sonic washer but it's MIA right now.


Thank you starseeker this is great !!!! :thumbsup:


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

Great! Glad it could be of some use. 
Finished the artwork for my lower deck (and FS floor) (and resized the Cardaton freezing computer) etch and posted some photos to:
http://s1004.photobucket.com/albums/af170/jkirkphotos/24 Scale Jupiter 2 Build/
I use the Pulsar system for home made etch. It works ok, not as spectacularly as they would have you believe on their site, but if you're careful you can get some pretty good results. We have 7" of fresh snow on the ground and a well below freezing windchill, so I'm not going to out in the garage to hover over hot acid for a few days yet. Rats. After weeks of drawing, I want to get this done.
Here and there I've made a couple goofs... that I see now ??!! (heavy sigh) and am trying a couple things with relief, which is why all matching parts don't always match. I'll see which one work and which end up as failed experiments. But this is why this is so much fun. It's All a leaning experience. And I have no idea what any of it is going to end up looking like.


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## skinnyonce (Dec 17, 2009)

You aren't a mad scientist type are you,, perched way up in some abandoned tower with a hunchback assistant, secluded from man kind... :tongue:


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

But it's a whole lot more fun when it works the way you hope it's going to. 
Eg: FS floor panel, J2 elevator base, bottom layer of my freezing tube computers, and some assorted lower deck details. Got four 6" x 8" sheets done successfully this weekend. About 5 out of 6 individual parts were successful (lined up properly thru both sides, didn't fall off in the acid, etched evenly), which is why you make double the parts you need. 
Now I really have to find a fresh brain to reward Igor.


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

The only problem with etch is that it's flat. If you want knobs, switches, etc.(and you do in 1/32 or 1/24 scale where they are so obvious, or obviously missing), then you have to add them. This is a lot of etch to detail, all sorted and accounted for. 94 pieces. Not much of it is structural. Most of it just to make placing switches, knobs, and lights easier.


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

I've finally got my few Fox LIS blueprints properly scanned and posted at:
http://s1004.photobucket.com/albums/af170/jkirkphotos/Images of LIS Blueprints/
They should be twice as big but these seem to be as large an image as I can make on Photobucket. At least the free version. If anyone wants copies at 15 mb each, pm me.


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## skinnyonce (Dec 17, 2009)

starseeker said:


> I've finally got my few Fox LIS blueprints properly scanned and posted at:
> http://s1004.photobucket.com/albums/af170/jkirkphotos/Images of LIS Blueprints/
> They should be twice as big but these seem to be as large an image as I can make on Photobucket. At least the free version. If anyone wants copies at 15 mb each, pm me.


PM sent about scans thanks...


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

Not a lot of time to do any modelling lately so all I've been able to do is amuse myself by roughing up a couple small details. This is I'm sure one of very few 1/24 scale models of an Electrodata Control Console Model 415. I thought I'd do the actual unit first so I could figure out how the set designers added the table to the front in the engine room. Amazing how awful and cat fur laden the parts look in close up under the harsh light of the flash. I'm sure they don't look this bad in person. So a couple more detail bits started for the lower deck. Someday soon I hope to start fibering and painting and finishing. More of the same Electrodata/Burroughs control panels were used as the Chariot's computer panels.


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## Avian (Feb 16, 2010)

Hi Starseeker,

Just wanted to thank you for all the info you've posted about the Jupiter 2. I've been using a lot of your resources to help with my CG J2 I've been working on the last few months!


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## Avian (Feb 16, 2010)

BTW, here's a sample video of my model. I am planning on creating a full tour of the ship. It's not strictly 'canon' since I have added a few details here and there and have taken small liberties with some controls.

This particular video attempts to offer a solution to the conflict between the astrogator's "auto-pilot" position in the top sensor dome, and having a rotating sensor in that dome at other times.


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

1. Wow wow wow wow Wow!
2. What a brilliant idea for the astrogator!
3. There is a 32 sec video there that looks like the exterior of a physical model. I love the light levels. It looks more real than I've seen on any J2 so far. 
4. More! More!


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## WEAPON X (Mar 5, 2006)

Avian said:


> BTW, here's a sample video of my model. I am planning on creating a full tour of the ship. It's not strictly 'canon' since I have added a few details here and there and have taken small liberties with some controls.
> 
> This particular video attempts to offer a solution to the conflict between the astrogator's "auto-pilot" position in the top sensor dome, and having a rotating sensor in that dome at other times.
> 
> Astrogator Test


Avian, This is awesome!
:thumbsup: :wave:


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

A cold and snowy Sunday morning, so I got the galley table roughed up. I still have to add another 1/2" or so to the conveyor belt where it will pass into the wall, and the controls, but this is the last "major" structure that I needed to add to the lower deck. Now I can start detailing. I'm thinking of using a strip of 1200 grit or so sandpaper for the belt.


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## Avian (Feb 16, 2010)

Thanks for the kind words about the J2 CG model! I do have other videos of the project posted on YouTube if you want to take a look at them as well.

_Starseeker_, I'm glad you brought up the Galley table. I've been puzzling over that piece for a little while now. I've seen the blueprints indicating 4 identical legs, but the screen captures shown below confused me.

Do you have any insight into why it appears the middle two legs are "kind of" missing? You can see evidence of the horizontal segments in the larger pic, but no vertical pieces. And the smaller pic doesn't seem to show the middle legs at all. Thanks!


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

Avian, only Gary Kerr would know the answer to a question like that. I haven't got a clue. The galley seems to have changed at least three times. Very early on, as in the terrible quality photo attached, the 4 legs were clearly(... visible. Edit: Actually, they're not, are they? That box, or whatever it is, appears to be behind the second leg, yet the vertical support that should be visible, isn't. Now that's the damnest thing. Now I have to go see if I can find the centre legs anywhere. I'll leave the rest of the post as I just wrote it...) Above the hatch for the food conveyor belt, the vertical band centered on the wall was a light. Early into the first season, the light band was made opaque and a speaker appeared in its centre. The middle legs seem to have disappeared at this time, as did the conveyor belt and the conveyor belt housing under the table between the legs. There also seem to new vertical supports under the table but I can't figure those out. At the beginning of the second season, the conveyor belt was back and additional colored panels were added to the back wall of the galley. I don't know when or if all four legs returned in the second season. I suspect they had something to do with the conveyor belt disappearing, maybe to make the unit easier to move, or maybe the conveyor broke down and they pulled the legs out to repair or remove it. ?? Anyway, I like the earliest version so that's what I'm trying to model. This whole back wall will be "wild" if ever I want an eye level view toward the aux control room.
Another edit: When the cast change from 6 to 7 (or 8, if you count the Bloop), maybe they removed the centre legs to make it easier to seat 4 (plus a monkey) on one side of the table? First the verticals, then the feet?


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## Avian (Feb 16, 2010)

Hi Starseeker. Your last post got me into 'detective' mode. I just had to scrutinize a few of the early episodes and I think I found the answer to the galley table leg issue. I always assumed the table's seats were just movable chairs, but I was wrong. They are attached to the table itself.

I think the inner legs are obscured by the metal arms that hold the seats under the table. The arms are nearly the same tone as the floor and so they seem to blend in. I found a couple of still shots that show these arms a little more clearly, including the vertical posts the arms are attached to.

In my model pic below, I've colored those arms a shade of red just to illustrate what I think is happening here. The seat closest to the wall is shown extended. Do you think this is correct?


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## Avian (Feb 16, 2010)

I also found this when looking over the screen shots from an early episode. Those arms holding the table seats seem to be perforated metal.


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

Avian, that's brilliant! Good eye! When next I had time, I was going to start searching through the first season looking for the galley chairs. I also really wanted to find that table at the end of the galley table. I doubt I ever would have spotted the folding chairs. But they explain the extra vertical supports under the table. Somehow I'd assumed the galley chairs were the same folding canvas chairs they used outside the J2. Seems to me I saw them used in the galley at some point, possibly after the folding seats were removed? 
Great screen grab in the second shot. The inner supports really were there.
Fantastic 3d shot, your image of the galley. Your CG model is simply amazing. 
Thanks!


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## Fernando Mureb (Nov 12, 2006)

What an incredible "discovery." :thumbsup:

This shows how the architects and builders of the set were careful in researching and producing the interior of this ship.

It's really a pity that all this painstaking work in trying to be faithful to one "possible future", that is, something really tangible and not just magical (like teleportation), has not been properly tapped during the tv show.


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

What fun to discover something new about the Jupiter 2!
I've scanned through the first two disks so far to see what I could find. Here are a couple screen grabs. By Welcome, Stranger the galley had already been revised into its second version. Thge vertical light on the wall is now opaque with a speaker in the centre. The two middle table "legs" are gone and the swivel out chairs are clearly there. At the beginning of The Oasis, Will swivels one of them out from under the table. Even earlier, in Island in the Sky (?), the perforated chair supports are clearly seen, but one would have no idea what they were.
Tomorrow, when I can see again, I'll tackle a couple more disks. 
Truly, the more you research (early) sets and props (at least), the more impressed you have to be by the amount of care and attention that went into designing this series. 
Fernando, you may have forgotten, but it was a question of yours on some forgotten thread ages ago that was my inspiration for starting a lower deck model in the first place. Thanks! I think.


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

My mission the am was to see if I could find when the two middle table legs disappeared. They are clearly there in chair 5 and 6, from Stowaway and Derelict. Chair 7 shows the perforated grid to the right and toward the left one of the chair supports shows it's tensioning point just below its top end. Chair 8 shows them sitting and the grid under Smith's leg. Chair 8 and 9 from The Oasis shows that the middle legs are gone. So removing the legs, for whatever reason, happened quickly. The light bar above the table has been replaced with the speaker bar by this time as well.
The first attachment, chairs 5, also shows a couple interesting rivet counter things: under the table, there is no cover for the conveyor belt. I think the straight line you see just under the tabletop is the bottom of the belt. Also toward the left edge of the capture, just above middle, is a hatch control button unit in the escape hatch corridor that I never noticed before.
I wonder if you can just buy finely perforated brass etch? I just cleaned up the garage from my last etch operation and while there's no other way of replicating those chair bases other than etch, I sure don't feel like going near ferric chloride again for a while.


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

A couple more shots of the chairs. They are also barely visible in Season 2s Wild Adventure and Season 3s Haunted Lighthouse, the only episodes I remembered offhand to have scenes in the galley. So the chairs lasted 2 1/2 seasons longer than the stories did. Sigh. They will be interesting to model. The mounts appear to consist of two pieces. The large arc is attached on one side to the floor to table bar and pivots on that end. There seems to be a smaller arc or bar that pivots under the centre of the chair seat. The two arcs seem to be joined at a pivot point just under the side edge of the chair. The three pivots would allow the actors to sit without having to straddle anything. The chairs seem to have been spring loaded, or at least flexed down about an inch when Will sat in one. What a surprise! I was expecting to find something canvas that folded. Still can't believe they aren't there, and never were. But this just makes so much more sense and is so much more elegant.


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## bert model maker (Feb 19, 2002)

Starseeker, are you putting this all into a Lunar Models 24 inch Jupiter 2 ? because unlike the PL Jupiter 2 it WILL work on the Lunar Models version because of the size.


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## Fernando Mureb (Nov 12, 2006)

starseeker said:


> What fun to discover something new about the Jupiter 2!
> Fernando, you may have forgotten, but it was a question of yours on some forgotten thread ages ago that was my inspiration for starting a lower deck model in the first place. Thanks! I think.


Hi Starseeker

Yes I remember and I thank Lord for you to do the whole stuff!! I'm downloading everything. Not that I pretend to do something even similar, but at least it will be a benchmark for how far I can get, even though I get frustrated in the end. :wave:


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## Avian (Feb 16, 2010)

Thanks _Starseeker _for those additional pics! I'll be sure to post additional questions here, since this forum is filled with knowledgeable - and generous - people like yourself. I also joined the _Lost in Space Props_ discussion group on Yahoo. There are a good number of people there who also have blueprints and photos of original items from the series.

Regarding the Galley table legs, I would assume they removed the middle two legs simply because they were in the actor's way (too many bumped shins?). It was certainly overkill to use so many support points for a table that was only about 7 feet long or so.

It looks like they added the speaker to the pulsating light strip above the table in "Island in the Sky." You can see an intentional shot of the speaker about 6 minutes in, when Smith and the Robot are playing chess. Later on, maybe they didn't bother to turn on the light so it just looks opaque?


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

The hinged joints were decidedly finicky, especially as I could find no smaller rod that fit snugly inside the larger rod, so I had to bore out everything to fit. I have the feeling that the bases of the chair "legs" need to be attached to something in order to keep them square and straight. Unfortunately, it can't be the floor, as this whole unit is going to be "wild" for viewing toward the observatory. Maybe the square feet I have yet to add will help, but I think I'm going to have to add join them somehow to the table legs and hope it doesn't show too much.


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

(Gee, these pictures make the galley look awful, all enlarged and every bump and scratch showing. Kind of embarassing to show such rough work, but it is a work in progress. And it Will look better. I hope.)
I decided to put a .020 x .156 strip across the top of the three legs and let that just touch the table bottom. It is hidden there. When the time comes, I'll cement the feet to the floor. When I remove the back wall and table, the seat units will stay attached to the floor. That way I can keep them square and straight. 
So right now, the chair units are just taped under the table. Roughed up some seat bottoms to see how everything would fit. The leg units aren't placed quite right and individual seat column heights still needs to be trimmed a bit, but this gives the general idea. The chairs are almost infinitely adjustable in their distance from the table, from tucked away underneath to close in for sitting to fully extended for getting in and out. Extraordinarily clever set designers. 
A week ago, I had no idea that this is how the galley chairs worked. What fun! Now, what was it I was planning on working on a week ago?...


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

Poking along very slowly, but at least I'm cutting plastic again. The wonderful thing about modelling the Jupiter 2 is that there are so many parts to it, if you get bored or bogged down in one area, you can just move on to another. 
Last week I attached most of the rest of the photoetch to scrap plastic sheet and cemented the sheet into position on the control panels. I've done none of the knobs or switches or lights yet. I made a honeycomb of scrap and leveled the panel above the observatory window nice and flat. With the girders in place, you can see what low headroom they had in the lower deck.
Still have no idea what I'm going to put in the engine room besides generic Fox controls panels. Something Krel.
Started in on the bathroom area. The blueprints just show a floor plan, no other elevations or details. Three walls in the shower seem clear, as they were to be backlit by neon lights. I used some blue Plastruct sheet for the walls. The whole lavatory area is nothing but angles, angles, more angles. Except the circular shower front. I'm assuming the shower wasn't to be liquid-based, despite The Oasis, given the lack of any door. On the other hand, the sink in the laboratory test bench doesn't have a faucet so maybe they just didn't think about plumbing. Adding a sliding shower door certainly would be a challenge. Which is as much reason to try it as any.


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## Fernando Mureb (Nov 12, 2006)

----NO WORDS-----


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## bert model maker (Feb 19, 2002)

What fernando said:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## Seaview (Feb 18, 2004)

:thumbsup: *WOW!!!!!!! * :thumbsup:


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## teslabe (Oct 20, 2007)

When does she launch????? Very nice work......:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: No, fancastic work.......:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## kimba32003 (Dec 17, 2008)

Unbelievable !!!!
Amazing !!!!!!!!!!!


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

Thanks for the kind words. Sometimes they are the only thing that keeps me going. On the lower deck, I was very careful to make sure both the tops and bottoms of all the girders were square and centered. Way back when on the upper deck, I didn't pay enough attention to making sure the girders were lined up along 45 degree angles not only at both ends but along their entire vertical centers. When it came time to make the 8 center ceiling panels, I discovered that each was slightly different in shape and maybe up to about 1/8" different in size at one end or the other and that bothered me a little. So over the weekend, I cut out the outer ceiling panels and soffits centered the girders along their entire lengths, and cut new outer panels all exactly the same size and shape. 
I again used two scrap pieces of square styrene to make sure the ceiling panels were kept parallel to the floor and at the right height. I clamped them to the girders with clothes pins and cemented the ceiling panels in place, letting each dry for a few minutes before I moved on to the next. All the ceiling panels were identical and 7 of 8 fit between the girders perfectly. The panel above the ladder/door station was about .060 too narrow at the outer corner and I shimmed that with a piece of angle. It's clamped and drying in the first picture. 
3d picture: The moment of truth was of course when it came to place the last ceiling panel. I was worried that it would either be too long or too short or the angles would be way off or that it would be out of round with the pieces on wither side. I dropped in the cutout from a copy of my drawings that I'd been using to cut the pieces and it fit dead on. 
2nd and 4th pictures: I had to re-do the cutout for the glide tube, something that I wasn't looking forward to. The cutout has to be exactly centered over the glide tube, so I raised the base of the elevator up to the bottom of the ceiling piece traced it's position roughly on the plastic, and used a motor tool to roughly cut out the opening. A little trial and error and I got it properly centered, searched for a the right diameter sanding tool (turned out to be a superglue refill bottle wrapped in a sheet of sandpaper), and finished the opening. It's centered right above the glide tube base. 
Next up will be remaking the angled soffit pieces that bridge the space between the outer ceiling panels and higher inner ceiling panels. With the front dimension of the panels identical, I should be able to get away with making all the angled pieces identical, so that should save some time. And then repair some damage I did to the girders in the tear apart. 
Amazing the stupid little things that can keep nagging at you. I mean, there was no way of telling that the ceiling wasn't 8 identical pie shapes without measuring each of them. But now I know I've done them properly. Or at least as good as I can manage. 
Sigh.


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## Vindi (Mar 20, 2009)

Starseeker,

What an AWESOME build!!!!

One idea for the shower door is to have it open (using the photo as reference) from left to right. i.e. left closed, right open and when it is in the open position it might fit in the space to the right. (left side of the figure).

I have seen some round showers that are like that in homes I was looking at last year.


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

Got nothing done this weekend except for the locker door. Peeled an engine cowling hinge out of my Trimaster TA152 or something , cut it in half, and added half to the door (along with a layer of cat fur). Had to make the hinge cover a little over wide but with paint (or more fur) that won't be noticed. The door doesn't open completely flat but close enough for me. Not that I'm ever going to be opening and closing the locker door but it was fun to do and it's always good to have options for display. Now to try replace the remaining hinge pieces on the airplane and make styrene rod fill in for the missing bit...


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

Here is the beginning of a rarely modelled piece of upper deck equipment.


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

starseeker said:


> Here is the beginning of a rarely modelled piece of upper deck equipment.


Is that the observation equipment in the top of the glide tube from season one?


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

Indeed it is. You have a good eye, as is evidenced by you beautiful Galactica build on another thread. I'm still not convinced those photos aren't screen grabs, your Galactica looks so good.


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

starseeker said:


> Indeed it is. You have a good eye, as is evidenced by you beautiful Galactica build on another thread. I'm still not convinced those photos aren't screen grabs, your Galactica looks so good.


Thank you Starseeker. I am humbled! I started a large scale Jupiter 2 about 10 years ago, got about half done and realized it was nearly 4 feet across! It is in scale with the wind-up Robot made in Japan in the '80's.


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

That is stunning! The astrogator is beautiful! How much of it did you get done? What did you use for the freezing tube clear parts? Are you planning on lighting it? And about 1,000 other questions. I'd say it's time to get back to work on it and to start a build thread to keep us all inspired and drooling. 
Either of which would be step in the right direction for me - all I am right now is cross-eyed. Next up I'll hollow out the lenses and eyepieces for later drops of clear. Then the mount. This is fun. I've always wondered what this thing would look like in 3D.


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

starseeker said:


> That is stunning! The astrogator is beautiful! How much of it did you get done? What did you use for the freezing tube clear parts? Are you planning on lighting it? And about 1,000 other questions. I'd say it's time to get back to work on it and to start a build thread to keep us all inspired and drooling.
> Either of which would be step in the right direction for me - all I am right now is cross-eyed. Next up I'll hollow out the lenses and eyepieces for later drops of clear. Then the mount. This is fun. I've always wondered what this thing would look like in 3D.


I don’t want to take time away from your great build on my "little" project. Real quick, I completed half, from the reel to reel tape unit around to the second freezing tube bay. No lights, just art I created for the panels. The clear tubes are just acetate that I put around a PVC pipe and poured boiling water over so they would keep their shape. I started on it before all this great info was on the web, so it suffers from many colors being wrong. It was designed to be covered on the outside to look like the set. Doubt I will ever finish it, maybe just the half I have now. I have a tone of kits waiting to be built, not to mention boxes of parts for my full-size Robot! So many projects, so little time! 
I can't wait to see your project completed, you are a true craftsman!!


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

I'm going to try your acetate in hot water for my freezing tubes. I started building a small vac former but it's too cold out there to go and finish it. Tho' I will need it in the next month or so for the astrogator and pilot domes and the robot's magnetic lock anyway. 
Wouldn't worry too much about "correct" colors. Despite all the recent documentation, I don't think anyone has made a convincing argument about any accurate colors. They vary from episode to episode as the director and cameraman and lighting changes. 
Replacing earlier pictures with these. A little further on in roughing this thing up. Almost ready to attach it to its ring.


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

OK, couldn't resist. I posted a couple more pics above, from my big build!


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

i say again, that is an amazing build! I don't want this to sound wise-ass or denigrating to anyone, but there is just no way of truly appreciating someone's scratch build till you've tried to do it yourself. (Not that building a great-looking kit from a box isn't a fine achievement its own self. I've failed in too many of those to ever cast aspersions.) But I'm just getting to the smaller details on the computer today and having just seen the photos you posted last week makes me appreciate what you've done all the more. What a pain in the rear those stupid tape reels have been. Spun .010 in a dremel tool bit against sand paper to get them perfectly round and centered (as the plan is to have them motorized). First try worked perfectly. Then I mis-measured the placement of one of the three holes. Took 5 more tires before I managed a decent second set. Sigh. Anyway, my vector tapes and atomic clock getting roughed in.


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

starseeker said:


> i say again, that is an amazing build! I don't want this to sound wise-ass or denigrating to anyone, but there is just no way of truly appreciating someone's scratch build till you've tried to do it yourself. (Not that building a great-looking kit from a box isn't a fine achievement its own self. I've failed in too many of those to ever cast aspersions.) But I'm just getting to the smaller details on the computer today and having just seen the photos you posted last week makes me appreciate what you've done all the more. What a pain in the rear those stupid tape reels have been. Spun .010 in a dremel tool bit against sand paper to get them perfectly round and centered (as the plan is to have them motorized). First try worked perfectly. Then I mis-measured the placement of one of the three holes. Took 5 more tires before I managed a decent second set. Sigh. Anyway, my vector tapes and atomic clock getting roughed in.


Can't wait to see each update you post! Truly spectacular!!! I know what you mean about scratch building. I hear a lot of people complain about accuracy, with a bit of patience, OK A LOT, you can transform a kit into something better. Building from the ground up, drawing your own plans, figuring the angles and making it all fit, that is another level! If I may, Merry Christmas Starseeker!


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## Seaview (Feb 18, 2004)

:thumbsup: Very inspiring stuff, Starseeker; I'm going to be attempting this scratch building method with my "big" Spindrift interior over the next few months. :dude:


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

I find that the leftover bits of the big Moebius Seaview kit are a great source for plastic bits for scratchbuilding. The plastic is very soft and workable. The axle covers of the tape reels are thin slices of sprue from that kit. I used lead foil from a wine bottle cork for the tape. Here it is almost ready for painting, close up and about actual size (which is why I'm not too worried about how rough it still looks in close up). Lots of work to go on the back side, still. I can hardly wait to shift into motors, leds, fibres, and painting.


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## Avian (Feb 16, 2010)

starseeker said:


> i say again, that is an amazing build! I don't want this to sound wise-ass or denigrating to anyone, but there is just no way of truly appreciating someone's scratch build till you've tried to do it yourself...


I couldn't agree more. To _know _something, to _really know_ it, you have to draw or model it yourself. It almost puts yourself into the mind of the original designer. You begin to see how "yeah, this curve _here _echoes _that _curve _there_" and things like that. The whole project can then take on another dimension.

I'm anxious to see that glide tube observation equipment come to life!


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

Neither the gyroscope and auto pilot are fixed in position on the J2 but are occasionally seen to move in all directions. This is the part of the build that has had me most stumped. And still does, to some degree (see wiring, below). 
First up was building a universal joint. I made one out of plastic rod and beam, to get the general idea of what I needed to do and how to proportion it. Then I drilled a hole through a larger piece of brass rod just big enough to fit a smaller piece of brass rod through. I soldered the brass, tho' a drop of superglue would do just fine. I drilled holes through a styrene beam for one axle and slots along the other side for the other axis to move along. I chopped the beam through the center of the round holes, fitted the brass cross piece, and glues the beam back together, trapping the brass. I used the smallest Plastruct L to re-enforce the plastic beam where I'd cut it.
Once the plastic had cured, there was a universal joint. Trimmed the brass and trimmed the plastic and test mounted the first one into the gyroscope. The brass moves quite freely in the plastic. To keep the bottom down, I'll surround the bottom of the piece with as much lead as I can conceal inside the units. With the all-plastic test piece, it worked perfectly, the unit pointing up as the base pitched and yawed. What might mess things up is that I need to run wires to the tops of each unit for the lights. Even the finest wires might act as springs and keep the units from moving freely. But that will work that out somehow. 
The only really tricky thing about all of this is the proper size and placement of the slots in the sides of the plastic beam. You have to get them just right (particularly in the auto pilot) to get the pivot point and the range of motion you want in the top piece. But that's just a matter of trial and error, of doing it a couple of times until you're happy with the result.
First photo: the core of the plastic test piece, a brass cross axle, and the other raw materials. The rest, putting one together, and the freedom of motion in all directions.


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

On the gyroscope, the top sphere and mounting plate pitch and yaw above the fixed base and all its "greeblies". On the automatic pilot, all the fancy detailing is attached to the bottom of the top plate and pitches and yaws around a fixed center column. So the u joint and center column are the exact opposite of the gyroscope's. I mounted the u joint onto a short length of styrene rod so I could adjust the height of the unit. There is enough clearance under the top plate and inside the cylinder for all the detailing and the lead counterweight and for the whole thing to still pitch and yaw. Now if I only knew what that detailing really looked like... And if I can only figure out a way of running wiring to the top...


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

starseeker said:


> On the gyroscope, the top sphere and mounting plate pitch and yaw above the fixed base and all its "greeblies". On the automatic pilot, all the fancy detailing is attached to the bottom of the top plate and pitches and yaws around a fixed center column. So the u joint and center column are the exact opposite of the gyroscope's. I mounted the u joint onto a short length of styrene rod so I could adjust the height of the unit. There is enough clearance under the top plate and inside the cylinder for all the detailing and the lead counterweight and for the whole thing to still pitch and yaw. Now if I only knew what that detailing really looked like... And if I can only figure out a way of running wiring to the top...


If it helps, when I was doing my big one, that I posted here, I imagined the action looked like the mount for a helecopter rotor gimble. That is how it looked like it oprerated, so I used rotor parts from an "Airwolf" kit!


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

RSN said:


> If it helps, when I was doing my big one, that I posted here, I imagined the action looked like the mount for a helecopter rotor gimble. That is how it looked like it operated, so I used rotor parts from an "Airwolf" kit!


That sounds like a good plan as they do look like helicopter parts. I got a dozen screen captures from Stowaway and Welcome Stranger and have spent since my last post trying to figure out what's in the astrogator, and I've identified a few things, tho' I still have no idea how it goes together. This is one instance where I'm actually going to have to model it before I can update my drawings, and even then my drawings are going to be approximations still.
The mini-J2 is attached to the upper axle somehow. I have no idea how the top plate of the astrogator is attached to the axle or to any of the mechanism underneath. There's no sign of a screw or a spot weld anywhere, and the spot welds are quite clear on the back of the barrel/base that surrounds the whole thing. In any event, I have to start with that top plate and the lighting and work my way downwards and toward the middle. Much of the stuff we see on screen is wiring and covers for the lights. There are 6 lights on top of the plate and at least two bulbs underneath the plate that light up the interior mechanism. 
This is easily the most difficult part of model making for me: soldering leds. Not them there giant 3mm or 5mm leds. Those you just clip to a heat sink and wrap some wire and it's about as challenging as nailing boards to a fence. I mean those stupid little surface mount leds. And I don't ever use really the small ones. These are the medium size (the little yellow rectanges, between the wires), with a 3 and a 5mm there for comparison. They are amazingly bright leds and are what I'll use for "fill" light in the upper deck and FS1, as you can hide them almost invisibly anywhere. Two of them will do nicely for both models. Best use of them so far was the 4 lights that face into the bridge on top of the sail on the 1/128 Seaview. 
I've finished soldering leads onto 10 of the little horrors. Now all I have to epoxy 8 of them them under the astrogator's top plate and the other 2 into the astrogator's control panel.Same time, same thread, next week...


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## teslabe (Oct 20, 2007)

starseeker said:


> That sounds like a good plan as they do look like helicopter parts. I got a dozen screen captures from Stowaway and Welcome Stranger and have spent since my last post trying to figure out what's in the astrogator, and I've identified a few things, tho' I still have no idea how it goes together. This is one instance where I'm actually going to have to model it before I can update my drawings, and even then my drawings are going to be approximations still.
> The mini-J2 is attached to the upper axle somehow. I have no idea how the top plate of the astrogator is attached to the axle or to any of the mechanism underneath. There's no sign of a screw or a spot weld anywhere, and the spot welds are quite clear on the back of the barrel/base that surrounds the whole thing. In any event, I have to start with that top plate and the lighting and work my way downwards and toward the middle. Much of the stuff we see on screen is wiring and covers for the lights. There are 6 lights on top of the plate and at least two bulbs underneath the plate that light up the interior mechanism.
> This is easily the most difficult part of model making for me: soldering leds. Not them there giant 3mm or 5mm leds. Those you just clip to a heat sink and wrap some wire and it's about as challenging as nailing boards to a fence. I mean those stupid little surface mount leds. And I don't ever use really the small ones. These are the medium size (the little yellow rectanges, between the wires), with a 3 and a 5mm there for comparison. They are amazingly bright leds and are what I'll use for "fill" light in the upper deck and FS1, as you can hide them almost invisibly anywhere. Two of them will do nicely for both models. Best use of them so far was the 4 lights that face into the bridge on top of the sail on the 1/128 Seaview.
> I've finished soldering leads onto 10 of the little horrors. Now all I have to epoxy 8 of them them under the astrogator's top plate and the other 2 into the astrogator's control panel.Same time, same thread, next week...


As always, Amazing Work.......:thumbsup: As someone who uses SMT LEDs in all my builds, I know how hard it is to keep these tiny chips from flying into the abyss........:freak: What I do is use masking tape to hold them down and liquid flux to make the soldering easy and clean. With one piece of tape sticky side up and two to hold it down, I place the LEDs on the tape as I solder the wire to them. Remember, you'll never get a good solder joint without flux. I've used 1206's, 0805's and the very small 0603's and found the tape to work very well. If you get comfortable using these tiny things
I know you'll love how you can use them almost anywhere........... Here
are some I used for my scanner on my J-2, for ceiling lights in my FS.


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

Thanks, Teslabe! That is amazing clean work, way better than anything Ten Thumbs here can manage. I'm using flux and double side Scotch tape, alligator clips, small bits of lead, and anything else I can think of to keep them in place. All they require is the tiniest touch of the soldering iron but the wire I'm using (ultrafine from an old electronics project kit I had when watching LIS as a kid) is so incredibly fine I've broken four leads just trying to get them epoxied onto the plastic. So now I've re-soldered those leads with the parts attached to the .020 sheet, which was nerve-racking to say the least. 
The stupid things are So Small! I made 12 leds with leads. Figured two extra was good. Set them aside. Went to start epoxying and there are 6 leds left. Two more I eventually found. The leads now are no longer and thicker than an eyebrow hair. I have absolutely no idea what could have happened to the others. Lesson: store on double sided tape, even as you use them. 
I'm going to use your tail light sequencer to drive these, Teslabe. You've been my main inspiration and go-to guy through these entire projects. So thanks again!


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## teslabe (Oct 20, 2007)

starseeker said:


> Thanks, Teslabe! That is amazing clean work, way better than anything Ten Thumbs here can manage. I'm using flux and double side Scotch tape, alligator clips, small bits of lead, and anything else I can think of to keep them in place. All they require is the tiniest touch of the soldering iron but the wire I'm using (ultrafine from an old electronics project kit I had when watching LIS as a kid) is so incredibly fine I've broken four leads just trying to get them epoxied onto the plastic. So now I've re-soldered those leads with the parts attached to the .020 sheet, which was nerve-racking to say the least.
> The stupid things are So Small! I made 12 leds with leads. Figured two extra was good. Set them aside. Went to start epoxying and there are 6 leds left. Two more I eventually found. The leads now are no longer and thicker than an eyebrow hair. I have absolutely no idea what could have happened to the others. Lesson: store on double sided tape, even as you use them.
> I'm going to use your tail light sequencer to drive these, Teslabe. You've been my main inspiration and go-to guy through these entire projects. So thanks again!


Thank you so very much for the nice words....... I'm very happy if i can help in any way with such a nice built, your work is just amazing....... Send me a PM if you need any more of the small Mag-Wire for your project.


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

Man, I look at Testlabe's work and it blows me away. I look at mine and it looks like my cat did the soldering. I look at Teslabe's light ring and I think how nice and easy it would be to fit that finished ring onto the plastic base. I look at Teslabe's light ring and think how much easier it would be to wire the lights in the three seperate circuits. I read about Teslabe's work and I think, "What the heck is liquid flux???"
So I head down to the electronics supply and they have liquid flux tucked away on the chemicals shelves, across the store from the paste flux and all the solder. And they have all their soldering irons at 40% off (well, had, but they let me have one at the Christmas sale price) and since I needed a finer tip for my ultra basic iron and they were out of stock I got a nice Weller "electronically controlled soldering station".
And in a small fraction of the time it used to take me to solder the leds to the leads in the old days, I have a light ring of my own with a bus on the outside and three separate circuits on the inside. And this one looks so much better, like my cat only helped me assemble it, tho' she's still be too embarassed to admit it. 
So thanks again, Teslabe, because of you I finally got the right tools and my small shred of remaining sanity might last for a couple more days. Or until I try to make your tailight chaser circuit. Which parts I forgot to get when I was at the electronics supply... Oh, sigh. 
This ring contains 8 leds randomly arranged into 3 circuits, 6 upward facing for the bulbs on top of the astrogator, and 2 down, for the bulbs that light the internal mechanism.
Edit: got them epoxied into place on the bottom of the plate. That was quite possibly the most difficult thing I've ever put together, because of it's electrical and it's tiny. But the tough part is done and I learned a couple new and valuable things. Now if I can get them disassembled, I'll use the leds with leads inside the gyroscope.


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

Accidentally came across a great little magazine last week, called Make. It (and its website) are for people who enjoy making things. The lead interview in the magazine is with an ILM modeller who shares my modelling philosophy. He says he builds for the enjoyment of building. He starts far more projects than he ever finishes and says that for him finished models are just a byproduct of what he's really interested in, which is trying to figure out how to do things that he's never done before. And that persuing his passion only occasionally ends up with a finished model. 
Sometimes having a pro share your own craziness feels good.
There's another thread here about burning out on model making. If you're just making models to have a finished product, of course you're going to burn out. But if you're constantly trying to problem solve or learn new techniques, as soon as you burn out on one part of a project, you can move into another. 
Way too many hours on the astrogator. Had to move on to something else while I re-group.
In the early '90s, when I built my 1/350 TOS E, I had a vacuum former that I could form a 17" square of plastic. 1. It is was a real pain in the butt to use for small parts as it wasted a lot of plastic, even tho' I'd made a smaller platen for it. 2. I can't find it anywhere. (How can you lose a vacuum former??? Sigh.) 
So while the temp reached above freezing for a couple days, I ran out to the garage and rough cut three new smaller vac formers. I figured I do three complete rather than one large one with various capacity platens as almost all of what I need to do right now involves smaller parts and smaller machines would take up less workbench. (And I can still lose one or two and keep working. ??) The smallest has a 6" x 6" working surface and the largest is about 12" x 17". 
Here they are, in one photo really rough and in the other now ready for bolts and wingnuts through the platens. The heat source is the kitchen oven, the vacuum source is a Miele Blue Moon which has more suction than most commercial vacs, the former surface is perforated 1/8" aluminum sheet I picked up as scrap, the boxes are scrap plywood, the platens are overlapped layers of 1/4" Baltic birch, and the parts I need to make include freezing tubes, the Robot's magnetic lock, a 1/24 Chariot canopy, a 1/12 Chariot canopy (the bucks for the last two I've had waiting for years), spotlights and seats for the Moebius 1/21 Chariot, and so on. 
So this still counts as part of building the Jupiter 2.


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

In case you're about to mock home-made vac forming using a machine made of garbage, this was made 20 years ago entirely in the oven and by Kenmore vacuum cleaner. Except for the gum ball machine nacelle domes and the Leggs container engineering hull nose. Broke off the deflector dish in storage but I still have it!


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

Man, I've posted on just about everything imaginable without posting on any specific build. So to fix that, this is what I'm doing for the Jupiter 2 decks, which are one of my random tasks as mentioned on another thread. The colors probably don't match anyone's conventional wisdom but they're what I think they should be. The outside is Tamiya Red Brown, the inside is Tamiya Desert Yellow, and both have been dusted very finely with Tamiya Copper to bring them together (and I could swear I see flecks of something in the set's floor), and they're all topped with Tamiya Clear. This is over Duplicolor's various wonderful primers. I'm using Tamiya for the floor only. The rest is Model Master, as I seem to find the best color matches/mixes there. ?? There are probably a few more recent pictures of various projects in my Photobucket albums.


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

starseeker said:


> Man, I've posted on just about everything imaginable without posting on any specific build. So to fix that, this is what I'm doing for the Jupiter 2 decks, which are one of my random tasks as mentioned on another thread. The colors probably don't match anyone's conventional wisdom but they're what I think they should be. The outside is Tamiya Red Brown, the inside is Tamiya Desert Yellow, and both have been dusted very finely with Tamiya Copper to bring them together (and I could swear I see flecks of something in the set's floor), and they're all topped with Tamiya Clear. This is over Duplicolor's various wonderful primers. I'm using Tamiya for the floor only. The rest is Model Master, as I seem to find the best color matches/mixes there. ?? There are probably a few more recent pictures of various projects in my Photobucket albums.


The flecks you are seeing is probably sand tracked in from the outside of the set. Either way, you have replicated perfectly!


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## teslabe (Oct 20, 2007)

Wow!!!!! That turned out great and right on scale for it's size......:thumbsup:
How did you get the Copper to lay down so nice?


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## bert model maker (Feb 19, 2002)

Starseeker,that looks great, How & what did you mask off the center circle with ?


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

Thanks. The copper is just Tamiya copper airbrushed on with the airbrush set very finely and held about 2 feet away from the floor, which was held vertically. I like the metallic flecks as it reminds me of various floor surfaces of the '60s which contained metallic and flecks of various colors. The corrugated walls of the Flying Sub also contained colored flecks under the clear plastic overcoat, if it's the same material I'm think of. 
Very low tech masking. I just use blue or green painters masking tape. If you cut it into fine strips, you have Tamiya masking tape for 1% of the price, and I can't find any difference. My main work surface is a scrap 2' x 4' piece of tempered glass so I cut a rough smaller circle of scrap, centered a thin pice of cardboard under it the center for the pivot needle, taped around the edges and used a circle cutter. Every space modeller needs a small and a large circle cutter, not only for cutting flat circles but for cutting cones.
Glosscoating darkened the outer edge somewhat, 
http://s1004.photobucket.com/albums/af170/jkirkphotos/?action=view&current=2393.jpg
but I think it still looks close enough. The girders being flat black right now don't help. Not sure if I'll gloss the lower deck floor. I noticed that after the first couple episodes, everything shiny in the Jupiter 2 (the astrogator dome, the floors, the robot bubble, chrome freezing tuve equipment, etc) seems to have been dusted with a light-colored powder to kill reflections. So the high gloss floors are only accurate for a few widely scattered episodes anyway.


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## drewid142 (Apr 23, 2004)

This is one of those thread that it is just good fun to lurk in and follow! Thanks! Beautiful!


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

Something weird is going on with my Hobbytalk access since Saturday. I can no longer edit messages, tho' I'm signed in, and I can no longer post or delete attachments. If I could post attachments, I'd attach a small version of this, which is what my artwork for the upper deck decals looks like. The artwork is twice 1/24 scale. Where I could, I cut and pasted from photos of the actual hardware when the set people used actual hardware. For the missile control, I used portions of 6 different photos. For the items the prop people made, I usually just drew it. Thought I post it here (and on photobucket) in case anybody wants to make their own Jupiter 2 decals or wants alternates of some of the instruments not available on Paragrafix's excellent set. I've spent all my modelling time since my last post just organizing and sizing this artwork, as well as decals for the lower deck instruments, the Flying Sub, and a couple of other projects. But another task off my list. I'll post samples of the others here soon, if I'm able to post again. Wonder if it's my AV blocking something? Sigh. 

http://s1004.photobucket.com/albums...er 2/?action=view&current=UpperDeckDecals.jpg


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## GordonMitchell (Feb 12, 2009)

I have been following this thread and the work you have done on the J2 scratchbuild is ......well there are really no words in the english language that would give it any credit so I'm going to use a word that was invented by a lesser known Scot called wee Jimmy Krankie and its FANDABIDOZIE:lol:sorry for shouting anyway stunning in every way.one small question though,those tiny little led's,is there a trade designated name for them(i've tried to find them on the web as micro led's but nothing is coming back )and if there is anybody in the UK reading are they available here and from who,
keep up the fantastic work Starseeker2
all the best,Gordon M:thumbsup:


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

Thanks! They're surface mount leds and come in three sizes, insanely small, smaller still, and invisible. I get mine from an EBay store called Topbright LED. Here's the last batch I got:

http://cgi.ebay.com/100-PCS-0603-SM...809?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5adaabb559

They are available in actual electronics supply shops but here anyway they can run up to about $2 apiece. I first discovered them here and this is still my favorite introduction to them:

http://led.linear1.org/surface-mount-leds/

Teslabe's advice on sticking them down to double sided tape or folded masking tape and using liquid flux were the keys for me keeping my last shreds of sanity. Here the liquid flux is kept on the other side of the store from all the rest of the solder, in the chemicals. You do need a very fine tip on your soldering iron and to use the lowest possible temperature that will still melt the solder.


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## GordonMitchell (Feb 12, 2009)

Cheers Starseeker,I'll take a look,my sanity has gone a long time ago...lol,so I'll take a chance,thanks again for the info,
all the best,Gordon M


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

It's sometimes amazing how timing works out. I'm at the point on the J2 where I'll start to need to make multiple copies of parts, like freezing tubes and cryo equipment. Since my plan is to build a 1/24 Gemini 12 at the same time, I figured it was time to start on the Gemini interior. Two days later I read an announcement that a Gemini 12 book is about to be released. With any kind of luck, it will answer some nagging questions, like: how close to the actual profile is my hull drawing? And what was planned for the engine room wall? As far as I know, that area was left unfinished on the set, not even a raised floor, just a wall for structure and a doorway for crew to walk through. 
So I started on the floor and the girders of the Gemini 12. The floor is a 1/8" round of styrene with two 1/8" styrene doughnuts for the raised edge. The platform was only 5" higher than the center so an .040 disk fills the center. 
The girders are the same as before, only this time the shop had black styrene back in stock, which saves a whole lot of light blocking effort. I rough cut the 16 side pieces, sandwiched them with double-sided tape, drilled two holes where they won't show and pinned the pieces with bits of styrene tubing, and sanded the whole works to shape. Split them and added an 020 x 1/4 " strip of styrene to the edge, Hollow girders ready for lighting. I'll post the rest of the catch up pictures to Photobucket. And then I work on simultaneous builds.


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

How deep did you make the toe-kick on the raised floor? I left it out on my mine, but now I wish I had included it. It adds a bit more depth to the set, which is why they included it I would imagine.


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

Here's a section of the blueprint. Total height of the kicker was 5". In 1/24 mine is 1/4" minus an 040 layer. Edit: Rats, lost most of the message. Yes, the toe-in is 2" and the round-over is 3". Without color to play with, it seems they went to a great deal of effort to create interesting shadows wherever they could, on the ceiling, on the toe-ins on the walls, on the girders/truss/light beams. My favorite Jupiter 2 will always be the two that appeared in the fist five episodes.


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

Cool, it looks like the overhang of the platform floor is about 2.5 inches from the back of the recess. Thanks!


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

Created a Gemini 12 album on Photobucket at:
http://s1004.photobucket.com/albums/af170/jkirkphotos/24 scale Gemini 12/ 
Got the floor done and the girders square and in place. Only after I cemented the girders into their slots did I think to check to see how even they were at their peaks. Some kind of magic (or luck) at work: they all intersect on a flat plane, if my Tenax bottle holder is flat. 
Next: finish the girder trim and start on the walls. That will all go into my job jar as random tasks mixed with all my other modelling to-dos. I'm so familiar with the Jupiter 2 that it's unexpected fun to be putting together a variant that isn't quite the same old same old. Highly recommended.


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## Captain Han Solo (Apr 5, 2002)

Excellent Work Star Seeker!


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## Sonett (Jul 21, 2003)

Starseeker, it seems every subject you address has a touch of perfection all over it. I've been following your albums for some time now and must admit a certain bit of awe and envy at the same time. Your attention to detail has been a source of inspiration for many of my own model projects and I appreciate your sharing the work you do with us.
Phil


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## Fernando Mureb (Nov 12, 2006)

Sonett said:


> Starseeker, it seems every subject you address has a touch of perfection all over it. I've been following your albums for some time now and must admit a certain bit of awe and envy at the same time. Your attention to detail has been a source of inspiration for many of my own model projects and I appreciate your sharing the work you do with us.
> Phil


Let me make these my words, Sir.


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

Thanks, but you wouldn't say that if you knew what a klutz I am. Got a little more done on the G12, primarily the ceiling ring. I used simple styrene jigs and a Chopper tool to make all the angled pieces identical, so that if one fit, they all fit and I wouldn't have to mess with trying to fit 24 individual pieces. It worked well. Once the pieces were cut, it took less than 1/2 hour to place them and only one needed a hairline trim. Next, I'll add the recessed bits to their top edges.


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

Haven't done much in the last month. Here's one of the 6 wall units under construction, the astrogator being rough fitted together, and the inserts for the freezing tube walls started. A few more pictures of how I got to here in the Photobucket Gemiini 12 album (which I'm managing to keep annotated). Something I learned on the Jupiter was that I should have built the wall units with their ceiling attached and leave each as a separate from the light beams. So much easier to get to gaps and cracks and fill and sand them this way. Also a whole lot easier to build them without many gaps and cracks in the first place. Not sure if I want to use the Jupiter-style astrogator of if an early Gemini 12 astrogator might not look cooler. Guess I'll have to build one and see. Almost caught up with the Jupiter model now, so soon I can start working on all the parts they share, instead of building them as separate models. The model railroad mesh in the last photo is perfect for 1/24 scale but would look great on the Moebius kit, too.


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## Fernando Mureb (Nov 12, 2006)

Sometimes we (I?) realize some simple ideas (image #3) that make our lives so easier and nevertheless we (I?) never thought about them.

Thank you starseeker :thumbsup:


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

Mothers are the necessity of invention, or something to that effect. This mesh is cheap and perfect and even though I do have to do a sheet of etch for the Gemini, I'd have a very difficult if not impossible time etching something this fine at home. Another source of metal mesh are the very fine sieves from kitchen shops.


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

Awesome work. 
How much to make a 1:1 Jupiter for me?:thumbsup:


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

The original Gemini 12 astrogator has a certain elegance that I really like. So while I was building the on-screen version, I thought I'd build the unused design as well. I can swap them as desired, and keep the extra on a shelf. Here it is just primed, which I always have to remind myself is Supposed To show the flaws. More at:
http://s1004.photobucket.com/albums/af170/jkirkphotos/24 scale Gemini 12/
Let the filling and sanding begin...


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## Opus Penguin (Apr 19, 2004)

Chrisisall said:


> Awesome work.
> How much to make a 1:1 Jupiter for me?:thumbsup:


Didn't the show quote somewhere around 16 billion dollars? :tongue:


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

Opus Penguin said:


> Didn't the show quote somewhere around 16 billion dollars? :tongue:


30 billion......man, I am a geek! :hat:


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

RSN said:


> 30 billion......man, I am a geek! :hat:


Is that in 1997 dollars?:hat:


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## Opus Penguin (Apr 19, 2004)

RSN said:


> 30 billion......man, I am a geek! :hat:


Yeah ... that's right! It was 30.


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

$60,000 plus postage? Might be some oversize charges. Course the B209s or whatever they were might add just a little more. 
I love the alien bits of the Gemini 12. I just thinned the very ends of the tubes using a dremel bit in a hand vice. Once they're painted, I hope they'll look properly thin all the way down. Of course, this unit isn't visible from the windows but at this point I have no idea how I'll display the thing - maybe I'll leave the top hull removable or just use a dental mirror to look in and around - so I'm building everything. Now that this is roughed up, I can figure out the sizes of the control panels and I can finish my etch and decal art. Down to the last dregs of my Tenax and the glue is going on with a horrible dirty color. It'll all get sanded off. 040 was too thick for the table, 020 too thin, so I broke out the only 030 I have, which is black.


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## teslabe (Oct 20, 2007)

starseeker said:


> $60,000 plus postage? Might be some oversize charges. Course the B209s or whatever they were might add just a little more.
> I love the alien bits of the Gemini 12. I just thinned the very ends of the tubes using a dremel bit in a hand vice. Once they're painted, I hope they'll look properly thin all the way down. Of course, this unit isn't visible from the windows but at this point I have no idea how I'll display the thing - maybe I'll leave the top hull removable or just use a dental mirror to look in and around - so I'm building everything. Now that this is roughed up, I can figure out the sizes of the control panels and I can finish my etch and decal art. Down to the last dregs of my Tenax and the glue is going on with a horrible dirty color. It'll all get sanded off. 040 was too thick for the table, 020 too thin, so I broke out the only 030 I have, which is black.


You have far too much time on your hands....... But really, what a fantastic piece of work.......:thumbsup:


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

teslabe said:


> You have far too much time on your hands...


BWAHAHAAHAHHAH!!!


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

Here's a very poor quality image of the etch artwork for the Gemini 12. Higher res on Photobucket. Most of the etch doesn't do anything except provide a guide for drilling holes for fibre optics or for placing knobs and switches. It's a lot easier than trying to measure exact placements on little bits of plastic. Or to try and drill hundreds of holes exactly spaced freehand.
I managed to find enough pictures and screen grabs of the communications station instrument panels to draw the panels reasonably accurately. For two out of the three I was able to photoshop photos of the panels into rectangles and make sure the knobs, lights and gauges were the right size and placement. The Saucer Fleet has the only attempt at depicting these panels that I've seen, and they didn't get them right. It also appears that our friend the "Hot Wire Liquid Gas Detector" panel was placed over the comm station and the circuitry panel as well as the computer. 
For the unseen and possibly unbuilt reactor room wall, I'm continuing the recessed wall units as used in the other 5 bays. In keeping with Irwin's 3 R's philosophy (re-cycle, re-use, and rip-off), I'll put a Seaview reactor room grid behind each of the three openings and light it with a FS1 flickering reactor effect. For the panels above each, I'm using three Spindrift control panels that have the right size and shape. 
Now I have to go back and clean up the artwork that will be the decals that cover these. Even just cutting and pasting some pre-existing J2 pieces, this has taken three days of my spare time so far but they've all been cold and rainy, so I can't get to any of my outdoor and yard projects, so that's worked out unexpectedly well. If it only rains for one more evening...


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## Captain Han Solo (Apr 5, 2002)

Excellent Work, Simply Excellent!!!


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

Thanks so much. I see your beautiful work and I just keep my fingers crossed that this is going to work out half as fine. The decals were really quick to put together, mostly just re-sizing and adding some color to a couple of panels. I didn't try to match the panels too much as I actually like it that all the panels aren't the same metal shade. Seems to give more depth? The hard part is going to be to try to remember which knob is which shape as even here in the G12 there are three different shapes. 
Before I actually etch the etch, I'm going to wait for the G12 book to arrive. Just in case there's a photo I haven't seen that changes something. 
But so far:


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

starseeker said:


> I'm going to wait for the G12 book to arrive.


I notice that it take things like the G12 book about 4 days to reach any part of America, including I'm sure, the border. I've noticed that anything from any part of Canada takes about 7 to 10 days to reach any other part of Canada. Sigh. And we have a postal strike coming up. 
I know there are more Jupiter books coming out, and a how to build the Moebius book was discussed in another thread. All this just reminded me of Michael Mackowski's great series of real space modelling books, Spacecraft in Miniature
http://www.spaceinminiature.com/index.html 
He's now started releasing some of them only as E books, no paper. You send money to his PayPal account, he sends you the code to download the book from his site. For limited interest subjects like modelling and real space, this just makes a ton of sense. No paper printing costs and headaches, no mailing costs and headaches, instantly up-datable. I wish this was the way Jack Hagerty's Jupiter 2 books were coming out.


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

Test fitting the etch artwork. A couple of panels need some adjusting. Using the Seaview's reactor grill for the engine room wall.


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

Seriously, this is beautiful beyond words.


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## kenlee (Feb 11, 2010)

starseeker said:


> $60,000 plus postage? Might be some oversize charges. Course the B209s or whatever they were might add just a little more.
> I love the alien bits of the Gemini 12. I just thinned the very ends of the tubes using a dremel bit in a hand vice. Once they're painted, I hope they'll look properly thin all the way down. Of course, this unit isn't visible from the windows but at this point I have no idea how I'll display the thing - maybe I'll leave the top hull removable or just use a dental mirror to look in and around - so I'm building everything. Now that this is roughed up, I can figure out the sizes of the control panels and I can finish my etch and decal art. Down to the last dregs of my Tenax and the glue is going on with a horrible dirty color. It'll all get sanded off. 040 was too thick for the table, 020 too thin, so I broke out the only 030 I have, which is black.


I am to the point of building this same section on my 12 inch Gemini 12. I do have an observation, not being critical because my work pales beside yours, but the tubes are arranged in either a 4x7 or 4x8 pattern in screen caps from the episode. I had actually planed on using drinking straws for this section, if I can find the right size. I am totally blown away by the work you are doing here. If hands were steady enough and my eyes good enough I still could not accomplish half of what you are doing, just don't have the patience that I used to have for this level of detail.


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## kenlee (Feb 11, 2010)

starseeker said:


> Thanks so much. I see your beautiful work and I just keep my fingers crossed that this is going to work out half as fine. The decals were really quick to put together, mostly just re-sizing and adding some color to a couple of panels. I didn't try to match the panels too much as I actually like it that all the panels aren't the same metal shade. Seems to give more depth? The hard part is going to be to try to remember which knob is which shape as even here in the G12 there are three different shapes.
> Before I actually etch the etch, I'm going to wait for the G12 book to arrive. Just in case there's a photo I haven't seen that changes something.
> But so far:


The G12 book is excellent, I took a week off of my G12 build just to absorb it. There were a few surprises in this book (no spoilers) and well worth the cover price.


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

kenlee said:


> The G12 book is excellent, I took a week off of my G12 build just to absorb it. There were a few surprises in this book (no spoilers) and well worth the cover price.


A couple of obvious mistakes as well, but over all a nice book!


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## kenlee (Feb 11, 2010)

RSN said:


> A couple of obvious mistakes as well, but over all a nice book!


Mistakes? Just curious are they major or minor? 
Considering the time that has elapsed since the production and now with little documentation of what was done and fading memories of those that are still around that were there I think it is an excellent reference. We are fortunate that there is enough stuff still in existence to actually document, a lot of studios toss stuff this old. 
A prime example of this is what happened at the BBC with the early episodes of Doctor Who. Over half of the first 7 years of this series was erased because it was thought that no one would ever want to see this old stuff again.


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

kenlee said:


> Mistakes? Just curious are they major or minor?
> Considering the time that has elapsed since the production and now with little documentation of what was done and fading memories of those that are still around that were there I think it is an excellent reference. We are fortunate that there is enough stuff still in existence to actually document, a lot of studios toss stuff this old.
> A prime example of this is what happened at the BBC with the early episodes of Doctor Who. Over half of the first 7 years of this series was erased because it was thought that no one would ever want to see this old stuff again.


He states that a 10 foot Jupiter 2 was built and used only in "The Derelict". This we know is not true, the 10 foot miniature was never used in any episode. What he seems to be mistaking is the "Call Sheet" for filming the exterior shot of the Derelict. It calls for the 10 foot Derelict ship, not the Jupiter 2, and the 12.5 inch Jupiter 2.

He also describes that the 4 foot Jupiter 2 was filmed, like the Gemini XII, using 2 horizontal wires through the model, front to back, on each side of the front window at the mid-line. This is wrong, it was suspended by 3 wires through the top of the hull. These wires also carried the power for the lighting in the model.

Not big mistakes, but easy ones to find the truth about. As I said, overall, a very good book!:thumbsup:


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## Sonett (Jul 21, 2003)

Not really sure about the 10 foot miniature use (or non-use), but I do know for a fact that the 48" miniature was indeed flown over the pinnacles at Red Rock Canyon utilizing the guide wire through the hull technique instead of the three wires on the top of the hull. In fact, you can actually see the wires in the crash sequence on "Forbidden World".


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## kenlee (Feb 11, 2010)

Sonett said:


> Not really sure about the 10 foot miniature use (or non-use), but I do know for a fact that the 48" miniature was indeed flown over the pinnacles at Red Rock Canyon utilizing the guide wire through the hull technique instead of the three wires on the top of the hull. In fact, you can actually see the wires in the crash sequence on "Forbidden World".


Never noticed that before, there are two bright reflections ahead of the Jupiter 2 and very faint lines running back to the ship from those reflections.


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

It still kicks Hell out CGI crap today IMO. Mostly.


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

Sonett said:


> Not really sure about the 10 foot miniature use (or non-use), but I do know for a fact that the 48" miniature was indeed flown over the pinnacles at Red Rock Canyon utilizing the guide wire through the hull technique instead of the three wires on the top of the hull. In fact, you can actually see the wires in the crash sequence on "Forbidden World".


But that is not the Jupiter 2 miniature, it is the Gemini XII. I said, yes the Gemini XII was flown that way in the pilot, but when a new model was built of the Jupiter 2 for the series, it was flown by 3 guide wires from above. There is a lot of footage on the "Lost in Space Forever" DVD of the effects shots being filmed. (See below.) This is a sloppy mistake as anyone who has studied the effects work would know how it was done. (I am referring to the writer of this book.)

As for the 10 footer, the only appearance it made on film was in "City Beneath The Sea" as the top of a skyscraper!


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

kenlee said:


> Never noticed that before, there are two bright reflections ahead of the Jupiter 2 and very faint lines running back to the ship from those reflections.


That was an out-take that was not used in the pilot or in the crash for the first season. It was used in the second season and is an embarrassment to the Lydecker's, who rarely made such mistakes!


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## Sonett (Jul 21, 2003)

I stand corrected - thank you! (looks like Major West might had a dip into the bottle had they used that shot)


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

Sonett said:


> I stand corrected - thank you! (looks like Major West might had a dip into the bottle had they used that shot)


Not his best landing! :thumbsup:


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## Captain Han Solo (Apr 5, 2002)

RSN said:


> Not his best landing! :thumbsup:


Another misconception about Lost In Space...Major West crashed the Jupiter 2 all the time*...INCORRECT!!!*

When, in fact, it was because of that idiot Smith that the Ship Crashed(in reality, of course, it was to save $$$on another landing sequence:thumbsup.Smith either messed with the"rockets"as seen in Island in the Sky, Or just hit a lot of wrong buttons, as seen in Hunter's Moon, or because he started trouble on the Ghost Planet, which caused them to fire a missle at the Jupiter 2 in Forbidden world., Which caused them to crash land!!..SO, one might say, it was Major West's Expert Piloting skills that actually *save* the ship time and time again:thumbsup:

Do any of you guys actually watch the show????LOL!!!!


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

beatlepaul said:


> Do any of you guys actually watch the show????LOL!!!!


I do, and you're 100% correct here.:thumbsup:

The first time the Jupiter crash landed was (and still is) one of the most thrilling moments in filmed science fiction history, IMHO (just watched it again the other day).


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

I believe that the references to the show and it's effects shots, are more than enough proof that I watch it. Probably more than most! But hey, even Mark Goddard refers to his character as "Crash" West, so no harm in having some fun!

Now, back to the reason for this thread.......more pictures pleeeeeeeeeease!


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## Captain Han Solo (Apr 5, 2002)

RSN said:


> I believe that the references to the show and it's effects shots, are more than enough proof that I watch it. Probably more than most! But hey, even Mark Goddard refers to his character as "Crash" West, so no harm in having some fun!
> 
> Now, back to the reason for this thread.......more pictures pleeeeeeeeeease!


I just like to make sure that I (me, personally), Get my facts straight:thumbsup:Before I post what I say around here...

The Irwin Allen Bashers continually spread wrong info around here..And they all jump on the bandwagon...(99% of them never watch the shows etc...).

It's all good..

Starseeker my friend, Excellent work, please post more pics of your progress...


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

beatlepaul said:


> I just like to make sure that I (me, personally), Get my facts straight:thumbsup:Before I post what I say around here...
> 
> The Irwin Allen Bashers continually spread wrong info around here..And they all jump on the bandwagon...(99% of them never watch the shows etc...).
> 
> ...


Considering our long talk on the phone about a month ago, I would hope you know the place "Lost in Space" has in my life!:thumbsup:
Ron


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## Captain Han Solo (Apr 5, 2002)

RSN said:


> Considering our long talk on the phone about a month ago, I would hope you know the place "Lost in Space" has in my life!:thumbsup:
> Ron


*OF COURSE!!!:thumbsup::thumbsup:*

*It's not you guys I am talking about..LOL!!!*


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## bert model maker (Feb 19, 2002)

BP, What isyour methodfor getting your upper deck floor circle painted so evenly ?
Bert


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

Test fitting the etch now. Much of it can't be attached permanently until I figure out left from right or until I drill lots and lots of little tiny holes.The ARA G12 booklet still hasn't arrived so I'm sticking with the Seaview reactor and Spindrift controls for the engine room wall. I think they looks like they could belong.


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

More awesomeness. But I expected it.:thumbsup:


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## kenlee (Feb 11, 2010)

starseeker said:


> Test fitting the etch now. Much of it can't be attached permanently until I figure out left from right or until I drill lots and lots of little tiny holes.The ARA G12 booklet still hasn't arrived so I'm sticking with the Seaview reactor and Spindrift controls for the engine room wall. I think they looks like they could belong.


Looking great :thumbsup:, mine pales in comparison.


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## Fernando Mureb (Nov 12, 2006)

:thumbsup:  :thumbsup:  :thumbsup:


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

It feels like it's been years since I worked on my Jupiter 2s and I badly need to model something I can actually see, so I pulled the G12 off the shelf and picked up where I left off: the hatch area. First I had to check to see what I'd actually done and it seems to match the blueprints well enough. Then I started in on all them compound angles. This has been the most challenging of all areas of the J2s so far, as not are the angles tricky but what little I see on screen doesn't quite match the G12 blueprints. The hatch and wall seem to sit a lot more inboard on the set, tho' that doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. So this is a compromise between the two. Still debating whether to let the hatch open. However it opened. Feels good to be back in (relatively) familiar territory. (Wrong panel above the scanner.)


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

Love seein' this!


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

Opened the hatch. Not that it will ever actually open I don't think but trimming the opening forced me to make sure that the opening was symmetrical. With a little tweaking, now both sides of the hatch can face either direction, so it must be. A separate hatch will also make it easier to paint that little edge detail or gasket or whatever it is that runs around the inside of the hatch.


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

I feel like I'm at Alpha Control during the construction...:thumbsup:


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

Changed the wall between the hatch and comm station to better reflect the photo of this area as opposed to the drawing in the Gemini 12 manual. And started sanding. Tweak the fit of the comm station and I can finally prime.


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

Back to the Jupiter 2 at last! I've been working a little on the cabins but while I'm making furniture I thought I better stay in that surprisingly large sf modelling sub-genre and get finishing the observatory chair. Added the footrests and the back and now all it needs is the headrest and cushions. Getting there...


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

Awesome sratchwork, but then I expect nothing less from you anymore...:thumbsup:


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

Screen grabs of the chair from Stowaway show what appear to be pivots on the girder cage/surround. I got curious as to what would happen if I made each possible pivot actually pivot, so I disassembled the chair and added them. This is what happens. This also explains how they are all turned around when they have been converted into some kind of equipment stand in the 2nd season. Haven't figured out if the front triangles had any special purpose or what to do with the foot rests yet, or if the two are related.


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## WEAPON X (Mar 5, 2006)

That looks just awesome! :thumbsup:


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

Started on the lower deck couches a while ago now, which meant going and squaring all the cabinets and making sure that everything is the right height, etc. Some progress pictures in the photobucket album. But putting it all back together to make sure everything fits made me look at the whole lower deck model for the first time in a while.
This has to be one of the great SF sets of all time. Much of the beautiful design and detail work, like the acceleration couches or the galley chairs, were barely seen, yet there was so much thought and effort put into them. Truly the Jupiter 2 was a beautiful thing. Even a tiny and crude rendition in this raw and stone tool state makes me shake my head and marvel at what they built. 

Moebius really should consider a stand-alone diorama of this.

Four next tasks after the couches: finish the folding desks in the cabins, finish two sets of freezing tubes, hinge the couch doors and a couple lab doors, and wire the G12 girder lights. Maybe do the lower deck light beams while I've got the soldering station out? It's almost far enough advanced now that it's becoming a series of mini-models.


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

Hey, Smith's room is a mess- make him clean it up!
:tongue:


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## teslabe (Oct 20, 2007)

starseeker said:


> Started on the lower deck couches a while ago now, which meant going and squaring all the cabinets and making sure that everything is the right height, etc. Some progress pictures in the photobucket album. But putting it all back together to make sure everything fits made me look at the whole lower deck model for the first time in a while.
> This has to be one of the great SF sets of all time. Much of the beautiful design and detail work, like the acceleration couches or the galley chairs, were barely seen, yet there was so much thought and effort put into them. Truly the Jupiter 2 was a beautiful thing. Even a tiny and crude rendition in this raw and stone tool state makes me shake my head and marvel at what they built.
> 
> Moebius really should consider a stand-alone diorama of this.
> ...


Only one word and even that is short of my true feelings. AMAZING.......:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## Fernando Mureb (Nov 12, 2006)

starseeker said:


> Started on the lower deck couches a while ago now, which meant going and squaring all the cabinets and making sure that everything is the right height, etc. Some progress pictures in the photobucket album. But putting it all back together to make sure everything fits made me look at the whole lower deck model for the first time in a while.


Starseeker: amazing and extraordinary work!! :thumbsup: (these words do not do justice to your talent, but anything I could say would be redundant - much like if I said to Al Pacino: "hey man, you're a great actor")  



starseeker said:


> This has to be one of the great SF sets of all time. Much of the beautiful design and detail work, like the acceleration couches or the galley chairs, were barely seen, yet there was so much thought and effort put into them. Truly the Jupiter 2 was a beautiful thing. Even a tiny and crude rendition in this raw and stone tool state makes me shake my head and marvel at what they built.


I fully agree (at the risk of attracting the wrath of the trekers, I would say that it is superior to the TOS set). 



starseeker said:


> Moebius really should consider a stand-alone diorama of this.


*Yes, they should!!!!!*



starseeker said:


> Four next tasks after the couches: finish the folding desks in the cabins, finish two sets of freezing tubes, hinge the couch doors and a couple lab doors, and wire the G12 girder lights. Maybe do the lower deck light beams while I've got the soldering station out? It's almost far enough advanced now that it's becoming a series of mini-models.


I have a curiosity. Is there enough space in cabins 2 and 3 to accommodate two beds in the opened position? 

Thanks!


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

Fernando Mureb said:


> I fully agree (at the risk of attracting the wrath of the trekers, I would say that it is superior to the TOS set).


*Trek Comparison II: The Wrath Of Chrisisall
*
Although I agree that the LIS set was ultimately more complex & visually interesting than the ST set, you have to remember the functionality factor; Treks' ship was far more advanced, therefore more ergonomically simple in design. The J2 was not just a ship, but a home as well.
:thumbsup:


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

Chrisisall said:


> *Trek Comparison II: The Wrath Of Chrisisall
> *
> Although I agree that the LIS set was ultimately more complex & visually interesting than the ST set, you have to remember the functionality factor; Treks' ship was far more advanced, therefore more ergonomically simple in design. The J2 was not just a ship, but a home as well.
> :thumbsup:


I think it was a real world comparison on the design and craftsmanship of the constuction of the LIS sets. They never looked like or sounded like painted plywood like the Trek sets did, as far as I was concerned when watching as a child. An opinion I still stand by today.


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

RSN said:


> I think it was a real world comparison on the design and craftsmanship of the constuction of the LIS sets. They never looked like or sounded like painted plywood like the Trek sets did, as far as I was concerned when watching as a child. An opinion I still stand by today.


In the far future, titanium/isolinear modular starship construction _appears _that way is all.

Okay, okay, the LIS sets were better built- there, I said it.:lol:


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

Chrisisall said:


> Hey, Smith's room is a mess- make him clean it up!
> :tongue:


I mentioned it and he responded (and I quote), "You scurrilous scold! A man of my abilities and stature reduced to a common household drudge and beast of burden? Bah! Never!"
For a little dude only three inches tall, he's got quite the attitude. I'm glad Teslabe is towing the only re-de-bigulator in the local system to a safe place.


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## Fernando Mureb (Nov 12, 2006)

Chrisisall said:


> *Trek Comparison II: The Wrath Of Chrisisall
> *
> Although I agree that the LIS set was ultimately more complex & visually interesting than the ST set, you have to remember the functionality factor; Treks' ship was far more advanced, therefore more ergonomically simple in design. The J2 was not just a ship, but a home as well.
> :thumbsup:



Both Jupiter 2 sets was so carefully built,... I mean, every little thing there was made to have a meaning, a specific purpose, like if the studio mockup was ready to realy take off, with an actual family inside.


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

Two projects I'd love to tackle some day are the TOS bridge and engineering in 1/24. 
Fernando:


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

starseeker said:


> Two projects I'd love to tackle some day are the TOS bridge and engineering in 1/24.


While I feel that you'd do them both justice like never before, honestly, I think they'd be a little easy for you. But then, after this Everest here, I guess you will deserve a walk in the park.


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## teslabe (Oct 20, 2007)

starseeker said:


> I'm glad Teslabe is towing the only re-de-bigulator in the local system to a safe place.


Alright, I think it's time you open a window and clear out all those fumes.......


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## Fernando Mureb (Nov 12, 2006)

Confirmed. Of course they were very careful (my curiosity was baseless).

Thanks Starseeker.


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

Pretty much all I've done this week are the folding desks in the cabins. I've got a few pictures of how I got here in probably extremely tedious detail in the photobucket album (tedious being the operative word all week). 
Here's the desk in Cabin 1. As far as I can tell, the pen set was mounted on a thin turntable (see esp Haunted Lighthouse). So I added a overly thick turning turntable for the scale but it's as thin as I could make it out of 010. The pens will come later as I think they'll be extremely fragile. 
So Cabin 1 is ready for sanding and the rectangles and squares of (010) panels that stand proud of most of its wall surfaces. And the TV... And lights... And details...


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

Makes me wanna lay down *yawn*

:thumbsup:


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

Back to the lab. I hinged the two cabinets that actually could open into something. Small springs push back the waste disposal doors. Yes, lots of sanding and tweaking of fit yet to do. Where the heck was the water supply for the sink? I'm thinking of just attaching a hose to one of the unidentified round bits on the lab test bench. It had a large knob on the right hand side that could be a flow control.


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

Who's the dead dude there?


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## WEAPON X (Mar 5, 2006)

starseeker said:


> Back to the lab. I hinged the two cabinets that actually could open into something. Small springs push back the waste disposal doors. Yes, lots of sanding and tweaking of fit yet to do.


Whoa... Awesome!! :thumbsup:


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## WEAPON X (Mar 5, 2006)

Chrisisall said:


> Who's the dead dude there?


@ Chrisisall... Watch, "The Reluctant Stowaway" (aired date: 09/15/1965) again! You'll see!


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

Oh the pain... the pain.


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## Gemini1999 (Sep 25, 2008)

Chrisisall said:


> Oh the pain... the pain.


Silence, you clumsy clump! :thumbsup:


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

Gemini1999 said:


> Silence, you clumsy clump! :thumbsup:


Your words are angry, but
_I can feel the love..._


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

Sometimes it's the smallest things that surprise you by taking the most amount of work. Of all parts of the Jupiter 2s so far, this acceleration couch has sucked up the most time. I've spent all week on it and I still don't have the arms or the sliding mechanism for the footrest built yet. Or t-slots in the bottoms and doors of the cabinets to capture the things. Nor upholstery for any of the furniture I've been working on (tho' I've got 4 pounds of Apoxie ready for that).
And there are still three couches more to go...
See you next month...


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## Fernando Mureb (Nov 12, 2006)

These amazing, numerous and complex details may end up making Moebius give up to market a model kit of the lower deck , if they ever thought of doing it. :wave:


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

If they do it, I'd finally buy one.:thumbsup:


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

starseeker said:


> the arms or the sliding mechanism for the footrest built yet. Or t-slots in the bottoms and doors of the cabinets to capture the things. Nor upholstery for any of the furniture I've been working on


On a related notes (that being Lost in Space & attention to detail), I discovered my 16" Robot's claws were too big & not as well shaped as they could be, so yesterday I changed them>
Before








Now









All right, not _anything_ compared to what YOU'RE doing, Star, but so few can do what you do, at the intensity that you do it...:thumbsup:


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

Chrisisall said:


> On a related notes (that being Lost in Space & attention to detail), I discovered my 16" Robot's claws were too big & not as well shaped as they could be, so yesterday I changed them>


Hey, that looks great. Not sure if these would be any help, especially after the fact:


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

starseeker said:


> Hey, that looks great.


THANKS! That last pic of mine doesn't show the angle of the claws like in the schematics you just showed me...










Anyway, back to YOUR creation, currently IMO the most fascinating project on the net!!!:thumbsup:

Edit to add: Starseeker, any thought to putting photos/videos of this build on a DVD or something when finished as an available documentation of scratch dedication? I'd certainly pay for one.


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## Avian (Feb 16, 2010)

Wow Starseeker! Just the tiny detail of the metal mesh in the acceleration couch frame is astounding. I'm glad I ran across your drawings when I built my CG Jupiter 2. Your attention to the details is wonderful!


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

Avian said:


> Wow Starseeker! Just the tiny detail of the metal mesh in the acceleration couch frame is astounding.


That's what I love about his build- it's dedication taken to the HIGHEST level.
No detail left behind.:thumbsup:


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## Fernando Mureb (Nov 12, 2006)

starseeker said:


> Hey, that looks great. Not sure if these would be any help, especially after the fact:


Is there something he has not drawn on LIS main hardware? :wave:


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

First light test of the girder lights on the Gemini 12. How I built them is here:
http://s1004.photobucket.com/albums/af170/jkirkphotos/24 scale Gemini 12/
Basically the same method as the J2 lights. 
The light is even with no hot spots but there is some dimming around the curve. Is that enough to worry about? I may try a third led with a styrene diffuser behind the curve, see if I can't even it perfectly all around.


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

I've been making sure everything in the lower deck is square and concentric, the latter requiring some tweaking of the parts. The main area of focus lately has been the laboratory and observatory. The observatory itself was pretty straight-forward. It's the windows that are the challenge. Everything is curving compound angles. I've filled all the gaps with thin wedges of styrene strip to keep all those joints as strong as possible and just slopped some white putty over top (how I'm ever going to sand in those tight spaces I have no idea). 
I've raised up the wall height to match the height of the ladder and elevator hatches, so that the upper deck will sit flat across the entire top surface of the lower. 
Now I'm working on the sliding crash doors for the observatory. Here I can't match the set because I have to keep the entire lower deck within a 23" diameter, if the 24" upper deck is going to fit over top to look like the crash site set.
On set the crash doors never opened completely because they would run into the Cabin 2 closet. Same here. (Tho' I do seem to remember them opening or closing once with a strange circular motion, rising up and around a lower corner. But if that was in the 3d season, Anything is possible.)
I can't wait to start priming this sucker!


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

The detail in this build is astounding.:woohoo:


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## Sonett (Jul 21, 2003)

Nothing short of amazing! I'm loving this build. Thanks for sharing.


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## kdaracal (Jan 24, 2009)

starseeker said:


> First light test of the girder lights on the Gemini 12. How I built them is here:
> http://s1004.photobucket.com/albums/af170/jkirkphotos/24 scale Gemini 12/
> Basically the same method as the J2 lights.
> The light is even with no hot spots but there is some dimming around the curve. Is that enough to worry about? I may try a third led with a styrene diffuser behind the curve, see if I can't even it perfectly all around.


I love how they are bright white, not yellow in any way. Very important.


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

About 100 .020 appliques on the girders.


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## Ductapeforever (Mar 6, 2008)

Jay, Check PM's.

Herb


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

I love this project!


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## Captain Han Solo (Apr 5, 2002)

Starseeker..*AMAZING* WORK MY FRIEND!!


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## Fozzie (May 25, 2009)

starseeker said:


> About 100 .020 appliques on the girders.


Can you explain what these appliques are made of, if you cut them by hand, sourced them from somewhere, etc.? I am interested in adding this kind of detail to some of my builds. Thanks!


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

The circles were all punched with a Waldron punch and die set [(http://www.rollmodels.com/), Part #WRP035, for the best price I've seen]. I modelled since the 80s and only got a set a few months ago. How I did without one all those years I will never understand. Amazing tool. (Before Waldon, I used brass tubes with the outside edges sanded sharp as home made punches for this sort of thing, and a small hammer and block of wood. Only a bit more cumbersome but you'd need to resharpen or make new punches every so often, and only about 50% of the circles would be good enough to use.) 
The rectangles are all hand cut from .020 styrene and gently sanded to very small radius corners. The thought of the toil involved having to make all these pieces made me keep postponing for months. When I finally was forced to start, it ended up taking less than three hours start to finish and was pretty painless. They are only cemented along one side right now, which is a good thing, as I see two that are a little crooked and need to be peeled off and straightened.


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

Bouncing around from project to project. Completed (?) the artwork for the Gemini 12 decals. A larger version can be found in the 1/24 Gemini 12 Photobucket album if anyone is building a G12 and needs them. The three green-tinted panels are for my hypothetical reactor wall.


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

Finished adding all the raised panels to the cabin walls. The whole of the cabin walls are raised panels (020 here) with small gaps between each. While double checking against what's on screen, discovered a couple interesting things. Like still more artwork I'd never seen before. Sigh. And that cabin 3 (the cabin in the middle) didn't have a ledge on its back wall. Then I noticed it didn't have any detail on its side wall, either. Cabins 1 and 2 (at either end) were fully dressed sets, cabin 3 was just left blank. Cabins 2 and 3 had their artwork switched over and over again to make it seem like 6 or 8 different bunks. 
So my cabin 3 is my own guess at what the shelves might have looked like, and where the desk(s) went. 
So I revised all the cabin drawings in the Photobucket lower deck cabin drawings album to reflect the changes I discovered while putting these together. 
Now back to the model: adjusting the fit of the desks and beds and some small details and TVs to add and a lot of sanding and they will be the first part of the lower deck ready for primer.


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

Someday, you will finish this build, and a wealthy LIS fan & modeler will have ninjas silently steal it away from you in the dead of night to add to his secret diabolical collection of stuff he wanted to build, but couldn't himself... :devil:

Nah, I'll never have that kind of dough...


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

Haven't posted anything here in a while, as office furniture and fire extinguishers are so boring. They're in the photobucket albums. Months and months of office furniture and fire extinguishers...
How did Irwin Allen ever make shows before the days of Staples or Office Depot?

But finally, Ray Guns!! Now these are the sort of things you think of when you thing Flying Saucers!
These two will go on the equipment locker wall. When they're all sanded and the last non-undercutting details are added, whichever one looks best will be a master for a couple more resin copies.


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

Couldn't resist more ray guns. Two will make a matching pair that I will lean on something and one will get a box and wires added to the barrel to make it into a neutron gun. About four or five hours invested in these so far. Took 27 tries before I got 12 disks with #71 holes centered reasonably enough in the disks above the barrels. Some filling and sanding and they'll be ready for a few small details.
Never realized before how much they look like tommy guns, except with the trigger on the front grip. I wonder if they were designed with an eye toward merchandising. I would have love one, for sure.


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## Fernando Mureb (Nov 12, 2006)

Wow!! So tiny and notwithstanding so well detailed!! :thumbsup:


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## kdaracal (Jan 24, 2009)

drooling...


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## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

starseeker said:


> Couldn't resist more ray guns. Two will make a matching pair that I will lean on something and one will get a box and wires added to the barrel to make it into a neutron gun. About four or five hours invested in these so far. Took 27 tries before I got 12 disks with #71 holes centered reasonably enough in the disks above the barrels. Some filling and sanding and they'll be ready for a few small details.
> Never realized before how much they look like tommy guns, except with the trigger on the front grip. I wonder if they were designed with an eye toward merchandising. I would have love one, for sure.


Beautiful work! Seriously, it's like museum quality.

Merchandizing was always a consideration, much more so than I had been led to believe back in the day. Saying that, I think those laser rifles were made more for a "we need this cheap and rugged, those darn things Remco made for us are just fragile as crap!" basis then merchandizing.

Altho, didn't they first appear on Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea? Or was it something similar in look? I'm unsure of the timeline.


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## drewid142 (Apr 23, 2004)

Thank God and Starseeker we have threads like this to chbeck out ffrom timew to time!

AWESEOME!


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

Thanks, all, for the encouragement. Well, I guess I've done about everything I can do to postpone making the freezing tubes. The rifles are basically complete, except for the clear barrel tip, the bulbs, and the clips and shoulder straps, all of which will go on after painting. Ah, yes, painting... Maybe this fall? 
Don't know why I'm so resistant to the idea of building the freezing tubes. Maybe because there are 12 of them?
This guy looks like he should be looking for Smith.


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## Captain Han Solo (Apr 5, 2002)

Starseeker, your intricate and beautiful detail work is a joy to behold. You are one of the finest craftsman I have ever had the honor to know and view your work.

Bravo.Thanks for thinking outside the box.


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

Captain, I hadn't even thought about doing these rifles earlier but when I saw your Alpha Control guard keeping watch over the Jupiter, I knew I had to. I love that shot. Everything I'm doing owes its inspiration to you and all the other fine modellers here. 
So thank You!


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

I'm finding that the Gemini and Jupiter are full of surprises. As I build, I double and triple check everything every step of the way and this time noticed in this picture of the Gemini 12 set that the environmental tubes (as they're called on the early bps) don't quite reach the ceiling: 
http://s1004.photobucket.com/albums...2/?action=view&current=environmenttubetop.jpg

So after having precisely cut all the brass pieces for the edges for freezing tubes that would have reached the ceiling, I now have to go back and shorten each piece of brass by .040". Aaurgh!
Once I finally have all the tubes framed, I'll cut the vac formed clear plastic pieces to size and start fitting them in. The clear pieces will add strength and square the frames. Depending on how much strength the clear and the overlaying trim adds to the structure, I may have to disassemble all of them again, clean off the CA and join the brass to the styrene with epoxy. Despite their current relative fragility,they do open and close pretty easily.
First 2 framed. 10 to go...


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

Looks like a bit of a rough landing. 
The KS brass channel (nearly 14 feet!?) I used is about 50% overscale. The next smaller size is 50% underscale, but would be perfect for the Moebius kit. Even so, this doesn't look overly bad to the eye. And once the clear is in place, I hope that will distract the eye even more. 
Back to sanding hulls for a bit of a break and then I'll assemble the J2s freezing tubes.


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## Captain Han Solo (Apr 5, 2002)

starseeker said:


> Looks like a bit of a rough landing.
> The KS brass channel is about 50% overscale. The next smaller size is 50% underscale, but would be perfect for the Moebius kit. Even so, it doesn't look overly bad to the eye. And one the clear is in place, I hope that will distract the eye even more.
> Back to sanding hulls for a bit of a break and then I'll do the J2s freezing tubes.


Amazing, simply amazing work my friend...I can't wait to see this finished!!


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