# T-jets-R.I.P.



## tjettim (Nov 29, 2005)

Our club SWMSRA,with 30 members,voted Gjets in and
Tjets out,for next year.We never should have adapted
the Fray rules,the rising costs drove people out.The last
race of the season, with 22 entries in SS, only had three
entries in Tjet.


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

looks like you need a new user name!


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## tjettim (Nov 29, 2005)

Gjettim? How do I change it?


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## Wingless Wonder (Aug 26, 2006)

Ouch! I hate it when people decide to adapt new rules without thinking of the consequences. I can't imagine how many T-Jets you've got lying around that you can't run now.


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

Maybe they have thought of all the angles?


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

tjettim said:


> Gjettim? How do I change it?


Ask Hank maybe?


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## martybauer31 (Jan 27, 2004)

Wingless Wonder said:


> Ouch! I hate it when people decide to adapt new rules without thinking of the consequences. I can't imagine how many T-Jets you've got lying around that you can't run now.


Why can't he run his t-jets anymore? My local group runs G-Jets and G3 superstocks, but I still own t-jets, magna-tractions, HP-2, G+ cars, and more that get run on my track all the time. Just because you can't race them officially with the local club, doesn't mean you can't have a thrash session at your own place now and again.


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## tjettim (Nov 29, 2005)

After the event people can stay later and run Tjets if
they want.Most of us have used up all our flat chassis
and good arms anyway,I am down to one good car.
My best arm threw a wire,and the last couple of cards
of arms I bought sucked.The JL/AW arms should be made
Fray legal like the magnets are.I have several chassis that
could be usable if axle hole bushings were allowed.I realy
won't miss Tjet much.The worst thing is they voted out
ALL the hard body classes just when the Mega G is comming
out.We have lost a few racers to those 1/32 Scalextric cars
because of the realistic looking bodies,and I was hoping the
Mega G could draw some back.


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## martybauer31 (Jan 27, 2004)

We have run the GT-40 and the indy bodies at a couple of races now with our G-Jets and they are a blast! Definitely don't discount them, they are a lot of fun.


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

It sounds like your turnout in SS is still healthy so that's a pretty good basis for a healthy racing group. The secondary classes always seem to be a struggle. No matter the class of car selected the numbers seem to fall way off anyway for anything other than SS, at least in groups that have an alignment with national level racing organizations. 

There seems to be a lot of PR push behind the GJet right now with the representatives of national affiliated organizations trying to get it ramrodded into their local groups. I'd prefer to see an open "Weighted SS" class that also allows for 6 ohm arms in any brand chassis (even the GJet) and allows adjustments to the cars along the lines of the regular SS class, like independent front ends and different size and compound tires. So far, no such luck with trying to get an *open weighted class* in place. The GJet is being proposed as a "take it or leave it" spec class. Unfortunately, the latter option is being chosen by too many folks who are sick of seeing their race boxes filled with expensive hardware they can no longer run at a competitive level due only to rules changes and overly narrow classes. 

If TJet racing groups don't accept the JL/AW chassis into the fold they are going to lose or go broke trying to fight the war of original parts attrition.


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

When the Thunderstorm first appeared there was some chatter about which manufacturer was avoiding which, but in the main racers seem up for TS vs GJ racing.

Not sure why that did not come to pass but it is sad.


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## tjettim (Nov 29, 2005)

We allowed the Thunderstorm,on 12 volts the 6 ohm arm
did not perform as well,they were always several laps down.
Either car would work in an IROC style race though.I don't think
there are any Gjet races at this years nats.There is a benefit
race using P-jets from Slottech which should be fun.Getting 
multiple brand cars equalized in a brass class is the hard part,
what we don't need is another performance war-magnesium
weights etc. that would happen if we are not careful.As far
as JL/AW,they should be allowed in T-jet.


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## BRS Hobbies (Feb 16, 2006)

Marty,

Do you have to remove the front weight to use the longer wheel base setting of the G-Jet chassis for the Indy bodies?

Best regards,
Brian


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## tjettim (Nov 29, 2005)

Yes you would have to.


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

Races that have multiple brands represented are more fun and realistic for me. But I totally agree that the political BS has certainly taken its toll. I never thought it would happen with the group I race with because everyone was so tight and was running whatever they wanted, mostly informal weekly get together races with no cash payouts. Any given night would see Tycos, Wizzards, BSRTs, Slottechs, an occassional LL, etc., battling it out for bragging rights and little more. Then it all turned, team drivers, blind alignment with one brand or another, money on the line, people who want national attention, pretty much all the same stuff that's happened in too many other places. I don't assign any blame to anyone outside the group, the manufacturers are just in it for the money and to get their products out there in the hands of racers, which is the way it should be. The manufacturers didn't change, the racers did, friends turned against friends and ingrained alliances around a shared love of the sport/hobby mattered less than material things. Very sad and disheartening to see, much less, experience first hand.

Say what you want about the hardware, be it highly refined and detailed bodies or highly tuned and performant race chassis, the thing that's going to make or break HO is the attitudes of the people who are involved with it. I've resigned myself to focus on the informal basement racing, track building, and modeling aspects of the hobby and say adios to organized racing.


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## tjettim (Nov 29, 2005)

You are right in all areas except one.People NEED to be at
the big and small organized races in number to voice their
opinions."The squeky wheel gets greased." Yea,I may from
time to time be called a whiner,but I pay for a membership
and I should get a say in how things are run.It is easy to 
just complain,it is much harder to get involved and provide 
constructive critisism.Overall,I rate HOPRA pretty darn good.
Running an organization and keeping everyone happy is an 
impossible task.


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## TurnNBurn (Mar 13, 2007)

Hi Tim, I haven't raced the fast cars in a couple/few years but funny you mentioned some racers moving to 1/32... 

I'm disassembly my two HO tracks (I only had one when I hosted the UFHORA race here a couple years back) and I'm seriously considering routing a 1/32 track. I like modern race cars (I'm not a vintage person) and 1/32 just has some sweet looking cars. If HO could make cars that look like the modern road race cars, be they Porches, Ferraris, JGTC, Astons, Corvettes, etc, I would probably go with a Max or Wiz track.

As for your local group, it still sounds like you have a good group of racers and who knows... maybe next year the group could vote back in another class like the indy hard bodies on the Mega-G.

Steve


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## afxgns (Jul 6, 2006)

tjettim said:


> After the event people can stay later and run Tjets if
> they want.Most of us have used up all our flat chassis
> and good arms anyway,I am down to one good car.
> My best arm threw a wire,and the last couple of cards
> ...


I knew this would start happening.
Look, If you're going to run the Fray, then run fray rules. If not, start tweekin'.
I agree 100% that JL arms should be legal. I also think that there should a couple of other changes made.

#1 Allow a plastic center gear.
#2 Allow any pinion.
#3 Stop weighing the entire car, weigh only the body.
#4 run slip on silicone rears

These rules are very close to a number of clubs around the country. VHORS and NITRO come to mind right away.

The other thing to try, is to have a "Build Night". This is a night when the top builders in your club have a clinic on building one certain area of the car. This spreads the knowledge and keeps guys coming back.

Tim Leppert


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## tjettim (Nov 29, 2005)

Those rules are similar to what was being discussed to
save the class.The resin bodies were going to be axed
also.A few key members missed the last race and the vote,
it could have went the other way,since the ones absent
usualy race tjet and box stock.Mail in absentee ballots
had been distributed,but none were mailed in.Who knows
what we will be running in two or three years anyway.


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## martybauer31 (Jan 27, 2004)

BRS Hobbies said:


> Marty,
> 
> Do you have to remove the front weight to use the longer wheel base setting of the G-Jet chassis for the Indy bodies?
> 
> ...


You absolutely do NOT have to remove the weight. The only thing that we did with our group was to file out a very small notch underneath the nose to get it to sit correctly. You wouldn't even notice it if it wasn't pointed out.


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## martybauer31 (Jan 27, 2004)

Montoya1 said:


> When the Thunderstorm first appeared there was some chatter about which manufacturer was avoiding which, but in the main racers seem up for TS vs GJ racing.
> 
> Not sure why that did not come to pass but it is sad.


Not sure anyone is avoiding anything, the G-Jet was meant to be run with a 9 ohm arm at 12 volts, simple as that. Trying to run against a car with weights and a 6 ohm arm isn't really the same. Not sure why everything always has to be directly compared, we aren't running fray cars against magna-tractions anywhere are we?

As for another comment about the G-Jet getting ramrodded into clubs, the only people promoting this car are the people who have tried them and run them. Pick one up before complaining about the "expensive" cars. It's a $50 ready to run, works for lexan or hard bodies and runs really well. What's not to like?

I agree with Tim's comment as well... "If you're going to run the Fray, then run fray rules. If not, start tweekin'." I would say the same would apply to ANY class out there.

The only people I can see not wanting to race it fall into the category of being connected to another manufacturers program, which is ok as well, everyone draws the line somewhere.


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

> The only people I can see not wanting to race it fall into the category of being connected to another manufacturers program


The only people who truly fall into this category are team drivers. The biggest complaint I hear is people who are "connected to their wallet" and don't want to pay $50 to run a car that's no faster than a tweaked magnatraction, Tyco, or Life-Like, all of which are in abundant quantities in most everyone's boxes. Also, if you look at this year's Nats lineup, the only class that's ever run at the local level is SS, which leaves everyone with a Mod, Poly Mod, Unlimited, or drop in Neo in their box with expensive pit box ornaments they get to race once a year, all the while they are being asked to pony up cash for a new car. That is part of the reason a line is being drawn and interest is waning. I understand the arguments all the way around and see the benefits of a "pure spec class" from a rules enforcement perspective, and speed is vastly overrated (as evidenced by the sales of GM products  - Go Mopar!), so there's much more than the easy brand X vs. brands y and z thing happening. We'll just have to wait and see how things play out with some of the most vocal opponents being diehard G aficionados.


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## tjettim (Nov 29, 2005)

I realy like racing Gjets.Low maintenance,realistic speeds.
Any other car would have to run exactly the same to be
allowed in the class, in my opinion.Fun,did I mention fun?
The types of cars that are the most fun will survive.


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## BRS Hobbies (Feb 16, 2006)

Marty,

Thanks for the information. Are you using the long wheel base setting with the Indy bodies? Did you file the body or the weight?

Best regards,
Brian


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## Dragula (Jun 27, 2003)

Sad to hear people bailing out on the venerable t-jet that started the whole HO craze.Why dont you and your buddies sell me all those junk t-jets you have?
DRAGjet


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## martybauer31 (Jan 27, 2004)

BRS Hobbies said:


> Marty,
> 
> Thanks for the information. Are you using the long wheel base setting with the Indy bodies? Did you file the body or the weight?
> 
> ...


Brian, the G-Jet is a short wheelbase only car due to the front weight. The filing is just done on the underside of the nose on the body, if you line up your body with the chassis it will be very quickly figured out how much you need to file off. The weight can't be filed or altered per the rules for the G-Jet.

Hope that helps!

Marty


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## SuperFist (Aug 7, 2005)

You guys over at SWMSRA might consider racing Outlaw Modified T-Jets instead of Fray.
Like they do at Dave's H.O. Raceway in Pittsford Michigan and A&M Raceway in Fremont Indiana.

Then you can race JL/AW Thunderjets with Aurora T-Jets.
Outlaw Modified T-Jets use Mean Green armatures and it's easier to get a good one and open gearing with 14 tooth pinions on Aurora cars.


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## dhamby123 (Jan 6, 2007)

T-jets i like to run them the only problem with them i have is they havent been made mass produced in years i think all classes should involve only mass produced cars and parts because like i was the new guy comes in and says wow i like those what are they and where can i buy one and the response is well these are cars from the 60,s and 70,s they dont make them any more but you can buy one off of ebay or from some guy selling them out of his box oh sure shops can still buy them fromreh if they buy a case of 1,000 but 99% of them dont and wont .. i really like these cars dont get me wrong there is nothing like them but lets face it how can we expect to get new people involved in the hobby with somthing they cant buy new out of the case at there local shop? and if by chance there shop does have them they have been sitting in that box for 10 to 15 years and they have to be rebiult / well just my 2 cents worth


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## tjettim (Nov 29, 2005)

Last I heard, REH is now out of rolling chassis.


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## BRS Hobbies (Feb 16, 2006)

It would be great if a company like BSRT made an updated T-Jet that would accommodate all the different T-Jet bodies. The original T-Jet can be improved in so many ways and it would be great if you could get an off the shelf T-Jet chassis that performed consistently out of the box.

If not a new T-Jet chassis, I would also welcome something along the G-Jet that accepts T-Jet screw post bodies.

Best regards,
Brian


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## tjettim (Nov 29, 2005)

Have you tried the model motoring Thunderplus cars?
If you epoxy the arm so it can't throw wires, they run
pretty good.


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## dhamby123 (Jan 6, 2007)

Thunder (PUFFERS) they dont make those anymore either do they ?


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## tjettim (Nov 29, 2005)

I can't believe he has moved all those yet.


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## sethndaddy (Dec 4, 2004)

Dragula said:


> Sad to hear people bailing out on the venerable t-jet that started the whole HO craze.Why dont you and your buddies sell me all those junk t-jets you have?
> DRAGjet


My thoughts exactly. How about running stock tjets with silicone tires/cleaned/oiled. thats it. And sure one guy will have a car that tears ass, but race another 4 cars the same way, and another, do ....sort of....a march madness type race. every guy puts in what he feels are his best 4 tjets with the rules above.

Racings fun, not a job.


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## tjettim (Nov 29, 2005)

Just set a fair price and have a claiming rule.Our club
does that in G-jet.


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## hartracerman (Jan 9, 2005)

Just give them to me and I'll cut you a deal. I'll bury them for free!


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## tjd241 (Jan 25, 2004)

*Deja vu all over again.*

As a kid I dumped tjets for "faster" and "newer" without batting an eye. This time I consider tjets as unfinished business. Never gave them their due back in the day. R.I.P. ??... not here. They have too much work to do around here to be resting. The _*reliable*_ new high performance platforms are great, not for me, but great. I just never tire of taking a 40-something year old green tarnished chassis and with stock parts and very little effort, making it run like a top. I don't know where all these new chassis will be in a few decades, but I suspect my tjets will still be running around somebody's track (hopefully mine).  nd


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## Tjettom (Jan 1, 2008)

I'm just hopeing tjets will live as long as I do....Besides that they are getting scarce and there are no after market arms being produced, I see really only one draw back with racing them and that is due to misuse. I really feel tjets as well as any type chassis is and should be raced in classes and on tracks that are relative to their average performance range. I have raced many events on tables that should be reserved for SS and up magnet cars at best.With so much variation in performance due to manufacturing tolerances long tracks seldom offer the close competition that a short and technical track can offer. Also, with the addition of high traction tires,the fastest motor now becomes even faster than other more average motors. What we have been doing to revive the close competition among tjets is to race them in a more relavant environment that they were designed for. Do you remember back in the day when you had fun running them? Was probably cause you only had a limited length track to fun them on and the traction was more realistic than it is with todays super tires....Anyways to make the story shorter,what we have been doing is running them on 40' tracks or less and using trued stock OEM tires or JL/AW skinny rubber tires. Now, the best motors are tamed by less traction and the average motors are benifited with the same traction and good driving skill....So, before ya dump something ya used to love at one time,look and see if ya might be expecting more out of them than they were ever designed to be....
Havin a ball runin our skinny tired dirt cars,
Tjettom Baker


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## medic57 (Mar 3, 2008)

> I'm just hopeing tjets will live as long as I do....


That old?:woohoo:



> Do you remember back in the day when you had fun running them? Was probably cause you only had a limited length track to fun them on and the traction was more realistic than it is with todays super tires....


Nope, it's cause that's all there was.:tongue:


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## tjettim (Nov 29, 2005)

Well,I was around back then.We never raced them stock.The
first thing we did was put on the hot rod tires and rims,and
cut out the wheel wells.When silicones came out and pans 
came out,we used them as soon as we could lay our hands 
on some.The reason so many Tjets were in mothballs all these
decades is that the newer cars,AFX,Tyco pro etc,made them
obsolete.They became popular again for a number of reasons.
The baby boomers hit mid life crisis time and started reliving
their childhood,and it became a new class where past experience
gave people an advantage,and they could win where perhaps
in the modern classes they were struggling.The cars quickly
became slow and boring to the racers and the rules constantly
changed to get the cars up to a more modern speed level.The
nostalgia of the cars quickly evaporated as resin bodies and
modern parts were devoloped and the costs of being competetive
quickly rose.An entire cottage industry has been built around
the T-jet,and to stay profitable they will have to keep the class
going somehow.I believe you will see a decline nation wide over
the next few years in Tjet racing,but like Unlimited racing,the
small number of die hard fans will run them to the end.


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## medic57 (Mar 3, 2008)

Why doesn't a manufacturer make plates or arms or chassis. Surely if there is a market for it they would profit.


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## tjettim (Nov 29, 2005)

Model motoring did exactly that with the Thunderplus
chassis.I don't think he is rolling in the dough yet.


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## Brixmix (Dec 2, 2007)

I would guess the main reason is money. It cost ALOT of money just to make the tooling to model the chassis and plates. Then you have the people who are purees in the sport who will not accept anything other the Aurora. The other thing is the Big T-jet race's for now won't let those new idea's in just yet. I totally agree that the original chassis could be made better and the plate also, with all the aftermarket parts out there for them a better more consistent chassis and plate would make the cars run better and be much easier to build.


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## martybauer31 (Jan 27, 2004)

They won't let those new ideas in yet because they are sitting on cases of original T-Jets that the rest of us don't have access to.

The original chassis and plate could be made better, I am frankly amazed that with technology being so much better 40 years later, that AW couldn't produce a better car (or even equal) than the original, that blows me away.

Maybe if interest starts waning in these big races, they will open it up and allow a wider variety of the new stuff to get run...


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## twolff (May 11, 2007)

Both Model Motoring and JL/AW missed the mark. None of the chassis were/are 100% compatiable with the Aurora in dimensions and parts interchangeability.


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## medic57 (Mar 3, 2008)

> They won't let those new ideas in yet because they are sitting on cases of original T-Jets that the rest of us don't have access to.



Who is? If they are doing that then it's their fault that the class is dieing.


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