# Kohler CV15S



## rebaths (Oct 16, 2004)

I've got a John Deere riding mower with the above mentioned engine. For a while it's produced a puff or two of smoke on start up, but I've always kept the oil level where it should be. It's about 5 years old.

Lately, the engine's been making a loud ticking noise. Slow at idle, and of course increases as RPM increases. I'm not an expert, but I'm pretty sure it's a valve.

If it is a valve, would it be wise of me to do a complete engine overhaul?
How much would it run for a shop to do it, and how much would it run for parts if I were to do it myself? I'd need new gaskets and seals, and two new valves... perhaps I'd need to bore the cylinder and get a new piston?

Where can I find these parts online? 

Thanks!


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## bugman (Aug 12, 2004)

it ain't so old just to make sure check the valves. it could be that an engine mount bolt is loose or something else is loose. a valve is supposed to pop closed by a spring. i know my engine made that sort of noise. it was about 7 years old with alot of use. the engine oil loosened the mount bolts. now if it is the valves try cleaning them and make sure they seal. but it could be that something is loose. try this before you spend money. an all alluminum engine will last about 10 years with a small yard. around 8 on a huge one. and allways clean the combustion chamber by hand at least every year after you get it running right or rebuilt.


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## rebaths (Oct 16, 2004)

Ok well, like I said I'm not a pro mechanic, and I'm just doing this in my spare time.

I ran the engine before I took it apart, to get a good idea of the sound. It was the loudest when I put my head near the valve cover. Does this mean it is a valve? 

I've completely disasembled the engine. I found one of the piston rings was broken. It was the middle ring, one of the compression rings. No scoring I could notice in the piston bore. There seemed to be a crosshatch pattern, like when you re-bore the cylinder. Is this just from the orginal manufacture or could it be due to the broken ring, requiring re-honing of the bore?

I didn't find anything out of ordinary regarding the valves. No pitting or warping on the valves or the seats.

Could this ticking/clicking noise I was hearing be completely due to the broken ring?


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## bugman (Aug 12, 2004)

that sound could have totally come from the ring. the criss cross pattern was most likely done by the manufacturer. it helps on the oil lubricating the rings. if there are no scratches other than that your fine there. but do replace all the rings with the same type and size. most likely the ring had a defect in it. if it all looks good do rebuild. now on scratches when you look in the bore and the scratches look like fine criss cross scratches and no blank ones pointing toward you your fine do go ahead and replace the rings no honing required. that ring was most likely the problem for your oil puffs at start up. make sure you don't line the rings up or close for that matter on the gaps do your in for trouble.


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## rebaths (Oct 16, 2004)

Thanks for the reply... I ordered new piston rings. I am really hoping it's not the valves!

One question: In the Kohler CV15 manual, it says:
_Valve Stem Seals
These engines use valve stem seals on the intake
valves and sometimes on the exhaust. Always use a
new seal when valves are removed from cylinder
head. The seals should also be replaced if deteriorated
or damaged in any way. Never reuse an old seal._

I called the John Deere place near me, and they couldn't find this part.
Any ideas?

Thanks!


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## bugman (Aug 12, 2004)

its seals used to keep oil and gas separate by sealing the stems. that would be ordered from the company of the engine manufacturer. i'm not to good on kohlers, mostly briggs and some tecumsehs. but they should be replaced if the engine was used alot or they are worn or deteriorated.


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## rebaths (Oct 16, 2004)

Well, I've got good news and bad news. Good news is that I replaced the piston, rings and both lifters. And I put the engine back together and it runs.

Bad news is that annoying noise is still there.

It's this really loud ticking/tinging noise. I know it can't be good. I looked at the valves, and they seemed fine to me, not warped or anything...What else could be wrong with the valves to make this noise?

Any ideas?


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## bugman (Aug 12, 2004)

its probablly the governer or its a just a gremlin. thats weird though. nothing was in the oil when you drained it to rebuild it was it because if it won't its probablly where the springs could be to strong but you'd know from looking at it. i'd run it and check the oil for any scrapings of alluminum. well check the oil and make sure the springs are at factory specs because that is weird.


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## T-Trim (Nov 5, 2004)

Once you replace sometime, like rings the compression goes up. chevk the valve lash and make sure it is correct. That sounds like were your noise is coming from.

Tony


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## bugman (Aug 12, 2004)

could be..........


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## rebaths (Oct 16, 2004)

Could you briefly explain valve lash and how to check it? I'm not that advanced of a mechanic.

This particular engine does not have adjustable valve lash heads. The manual says some versions do, but mine are not.

Thanks again!


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## bbnissan (Nov 7, 2004)

Valve lash is the amount of free play you have between the valve and the push rod (ususally somewhere between 0.005-0.008). I'm assuming this is an L head engine...in that case, all you need to do is pop the valve cover off the side of the engine, rotate the engine over to about 5 degrees past TDC, and place a feeler gage between the valve and push rod. 

If the clearance is too tight, you can remove the valve and CAREFULLY grind a small amount of material off the end of the valve. Then place the valve back in the engine and check the clearance again. Just remember to take it slow so you don't grind too much off the valve.

BTW, you are going to need to remove the head to do this properly, so it wouldn't be a bad idea to go ahead and lap the valves.


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## snoman (Feb 13, 2004)

rebaths
Check out the kohler site ond possibly d/l a copy of the service manual for your motor. http://www.kohlerengines.com/pdf/tp_2339_d.pdf
The one thing that they mention here is that you may have hydraulic lifters and there's a possibility that one may be going.

snoman


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## bugman (Aug 12, 2004)

i gots me a new puter


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## scrench (Dec 8, 2004)

put 10 w 30 oil in it it will quit the noise thing . it wont have adjustable rockers if hydraulic, might need to set the idle up a little could be the compression release , on the cam :thumbsup: i would bet ten thirty oil will pump the lifters up :thumbsup:


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## mikemerritt (Dec 6, 2004)

You may well have a lifter on the way out but the correct oil is a must on many of the Command series engines. I heard that the Command oil has an anti foaming agent and after going to that oil fixed to many noisy lifters I'm sold on it. The oil is only 2.49 so why not use it. It is 10w-30. What is happening is the lifter has trapped air in it/them that can't bleed off. Try the correct oil to see if that doesn't cure the ticking. This is very common on the twin vertical Commands. The horizontals seem to bleed the air somewhat due to the lifters upright position. 

Mike


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## bugman (Aug 12, 2004)

thats nice, oil to do that. thats why i don't use kohlers that much. picky oil users.


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## roperdude91 (Nov 10, 2004)

yeah, my roper was ticking with 30w, i changed the oil after 25mins. runtime and out 10w30 in it, didnt tick anymore, beacuase of the lower base weight, it gets inot the little nooks and crannies before the engine is warmed up as much as it would for 30w to get into there

my mom's 88 plymouth vayager ticks, thats becuase it has been using oil from bad valve seals, it has 20w50 in it, if it was probably 15w40 rotella, it wouldnt tick, it ticks beacuase the thicker base weight cant gert into the little cracks when the metal is cold


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## scrench (Dec 8, 2004)

i have also seen the valve seats work loose from the head and that will make some noise i guess you might call that the valve seat seat (lol) seen a couple briggs engines do that also --- real hair puller chasing that one down , but you can take a sharp punch and go around the seat and make a few stamps near the seat edge in the alumnium and that will hold the seat in ,,,, just my 2 cents hope it helps a fellow tech-- :thumbsup:


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## rebaths (Oct 16, 2004)

could it be the fuel pump?

i noticed the arm on the fuel pump (the arm the camshaft moves) had some wear on it. could the pump be bad, causing this noise?


good thing it's winter and i don't need the tractor right away!


thanks


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## bugman (Aug 12, 2004)

well mechanical fuel pumps always wear out easily sometimes. if its just a light wearing on it i would say its good but i've seen ones on cars be like that and have enough fuel pumping power to just pump nothing. i don't know much about a fuel pump fed kohler but if its a push rod that runs it which i know it is most likely it is, that could need replacing. it might've worn down and is tapping the fuel pump pumping arm lightly at low throttle and highly at high. might've worn the arm down and the pump needs replacing as well. its all in the wear on them.


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## bugman (Aug 12, 2004)

i;m willing to guess the pump is good since it runs :lol: but the rod might be worn out.


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## scrench (Dec 8, 2004)

did you put ten thirty in it ? hard to tell by not hearing it but i would have to say no i have never heard one make noise i have seen them break , might me the compression release on the camshaft clicking but if you rev it up a little that noise will quit hard for me to say by not being able to hear it could be worn cam lobe could be worn tappet could be low oil pressure , you could rule out fuel pump by taking off the fuel pump and starting it up ,, and let it idle ? probally what i would try . i dont have my manual @ home probally couldnt find it anyway lol i cant remember if that engine has a automatic spark advance on the cam , i dont think it does ?


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## bugman (Aug 12, 2004)

yep if its light oil you use for hard work it'll wear out easier. had people bought 10W-30 haha thought it was regular but it was that multi-viscosity crap. could be a slightly worn out cam. i know its no similarity by much but had a 3.0 hp briggs tapping like crazy. the cam was worn down just slightly. plus it was the wrong oil to be using for hard work. wore down the tappets as well.


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