# Brass HO Scratch



## sidejobjon

Any Brass HO on HT?
Thanks


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## sidejobjon

Heres one i did copyed a Cobra HO that was made in 1970. Before magnets.


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## pshoe64

Here's a hybrid brass dragster with a Tomy Turbo motor and rear axle clip.

-Paul


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## demether

Not really h0 scratch, but I experimented the old school brasspan for tjet :thumbsup:




















It works great BUT yo'ud better have the brake wired on your track...because the weight makes you car braking slower.


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## joegri

the short answer is yes. i tried one 2 winters ago. i,ll dig around and post a pic later.but now that i,ve seen a pic of yours its got me thinkin. she looks cool! just last week i got a chunk of corian to make a buildin jig with. also there is a guy on here sometimes. goes by the handle of chapperAL or close to that.his stuff is very nice. would like to see a post from him.nice 1 sidejod!


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## sidejobjon

Heres a jig with another chassis i started. Great dragster is it ok if i copy? Pans are cool to alot of differant types out there. Chapperal is great builder.
Thanks


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## pshoe64

sidejobjon said:


> Heres a jig with another chassis i started. Great dragster is it ok if i copy? Pans are cool to alot of differant types out there. Chapperal is great builder.
> Thanks


Copy away!:thumbsup: The detailed plans are on my site: http://pshoe64speedinc.spaces.live.com. Look under the Public Folder, Slot Car How To and there is a PDF with step by step pictures and parts list. It does wheelies if you add a little weight on the rear wing.

-Paul

Here's the new address for the design plans.
http://sites.google.com/site/speedinchowto/home/how-to-build-a-rail-dragster


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## noddaz

*cOOL JIG!*



sidejobjon said:


> Heres a jig with another chassis i started. Great dragster is it ok if i copy? Pans are cool to alot of differant types out there. Chapperal is great builder.
> Thanks


tHAT IS A NEAT JIG...
(Stupid caps loc...)
It handles soldering heat ok?
(It must... lol)

Scott


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## sidejobjon

Not torch but iron. "Ricks Jigs" is he on here?


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## gonegonzo

Fantastic web site pshoe64.

Gonzo


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## gonegonzo

S J Jon ,

How do you get in touch with rick to buy an HO JIG ?

Thx 
Gonzo


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## pshoe64

gonegonzo said:


> Fantastic web site pshoe64.
> 
> Gonzo


Thanks. I hope to have it up to date someday, but I keep changing the track, the cars, the chassis....:freak:

-Paul


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## K.L. VanAtta

gonegonzo said:


> S J Jon ,
> 
> How do you get in touch with rick to buy an HO JIG ?
> 
> Thx
> Gonzo


gonegonzo,

Please see my post in PartsPig's thread on HO Jigs; same sub-forum.

Be good,

Keith


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## gonegonzo

Thx K L V 

Gonzo


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## joegri

o.k. sidejob j ya got me. been staring at yer build and i think i can make something close to it. scratch building could be the toughest to do, but i,m gonna try another 1.( my first came out silly but, it did go around the trak.) i,d realy like to see more from other members so i can get more ideas and to copy/cheat from. pretty sure i,m up for this. if i fail well, i,ll try another! there was a scratch building site,but i forgot the name of it. there were some good examples there and crazy good builders.thats were chapperAL out. i mentioned this before his stuff is very cool and clean. "well lets see inline or anglewinder" think it,s an inline could be a lil easier.


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## sidejobjon

Joe,
Riggen ho .com
Post some pictures.


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## Joe65SkylarkGS

Ok John I like the way they look. So whats it going to take to have you make me one?? I have 0 creativity


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## scratch

I'm a decent brass chassis scratch builder.

Those are all _very _good and sweet to look at . . . 

Jas


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## joegri

hey scratch i,ve been roundin up some fixins for a build just ordered slide guides and some lg aj,s fronts. i have some brass to get me going.i,m thinkin side winder or angle. just got to sit down and figure what works.its the gearing for a side that stumps me.


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## sidejobjon

Solder a TJET brass gear to a axel. Or solder a TJET gear to a nut off a AJ treaded axel & screw it on AJ axel. Then line up motor pinion gear.
Hope this helps


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## joegri

thanx for that tip sidej ! i was hoping to get the slideguides in the mail today but,no luck. been checkin the box everyday.i do have 2 motorbrackets waiting in the wings also some large diameter aj,s came yesterday.i,m leaning towards an anglewinder(cuz i cant make anything straight.i dont know for sure what style yet but, it will be a challenge.also got a chunk of corrian for a jig/ holding device.


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## Rolls

Brass chassis thread - great idea! Keep 'em coming! These are very interesting builds. And great tips on building them, too. Nice!!


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## sidejobjon

*TCP Brass Pans*

These are some pans from TCP . They were for non mag AFX. I love all this brass stuff. Thanks John


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## joegri

i liken the pans they would be fun for an afx n i have a couple hangin round screamin for a lexan body. also what does tcp stand for i would like 1 of them maybe 2.


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## Joe65SkylarkGS

Good stuff there Johnny boy. Msybe this years Brass Wars you can take 1st instead of runner up!!! Give em hell bro!!!!!


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## sidejobjon

joegri said:


> i liken the pans they would be fun for an afx n i have a couple hangin round screamin for a lexan body. also what does tcp stand for i would like 1 of them maybe 2.


Joe 
go to the riggen .com site punch in TCP 70 brass war stuff.
Thanks


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## sidejobjon

*Jim Sgrig tjetsgrig HELP!!!*



Joe65SkylarkGS said:


> Good stuff there Johnny boy. Msybe this years Brass Wars you can take 1st instead of runner up!!! Give em hell bro!!!!!


Joe,
That was luck last year. But if are man from skippack Jim Sgrig should PM me with about 4 Armarture suggestions for some cool road race ARMS he got a sale here, for sure.
Thanks John F


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## joegri

sidejob i recently got an arm from the jim. it is now my most fav car on my trak.smooth fast and best of all the sgrig is very cool to deal with!i told him what trak type/mags used, and gears to be used. i return i got the best car i,ve built to date!now savin for 1 of his 4 lam arms for my next build.


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## sidejobjon

*Jim Sgrig*

Yes i bought some at the drag race at skippack, He was there and alot help.
I was up Hull coulpe years ago alot history up there.
Maybe he will read this & help me out.
Thanks John


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## Joe65SkylarkGS

sidejobjon said:


> Yes i bought some at the drag race at skippack, He was there and alot help.
> I was up Hull coulpe years ago alot history up there.
> Maybe he will read this & help me out.
> Thanks John



Jim is busy but will get back to you eventually John. He is doing some major construction and putting his strip up and down to do testing and building too!!! 

He is a busy bee.


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## alpink

yes, give Sgrig some time. he had to do some major jacking of the house and restoring support beams and walls to keep his den of iniquity from caving in on him. he will be back to winding, balancing, polishing arms real soon. he has asked me for some supplies to get all the back orders caught up. he is always so busy creating that he sometimes forgets to communicate with folks. but, he always does, eventually, and then he comes up with the best pancake arms known to man. the best things in life are worth the wait.


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## jeauxcwails

*Hey Joegri*

TCP were the initials Tom Coyne used for his HO parts business in the 70s.
Tom was an OK racer, but a superior manufacturer of HO aftermarket speed/handling products. From Michigan, but don't recall which town.

Jeauxcwails


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## neorules

Al Thurman-- is making his brass "Landshark" available for sale in kit and RTR form next month. Keep your eyes open on the boards!!


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## joegri

neorules thats interesting i,ve seen some al thurman stuff on the board (i think) is he "chapperal" ?


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## copperhead71

Some what scratch/hybird? i see why my friend told me i would want this blank carved up non mag chassis,i thought it was junk ...nop just not finished /or just started.


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## joegri

wow copperhead that is very interesting man. i,ve been checkin out the pics ,blowin,em up stareing sayin howda whatda whereda hell ? howzit run? looks like a lot of fun to tear it down to nothin then build it back up to a running chassis /car. continue to show some pics as you go along . diggin the hi bread !


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## sidejobjon

*Tcp*

Copperhead 71,
That is sweet Chassis . Were did you pick it up? Want to trade? I love all Brass
Thanks John


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## tjetsgrig

sidejobjon said:


> Joe,
> That was luck last year. But if are man from skippack Jim Sgrig should PM me with about 4 Armarture suggestions for some cool road race ARMS he got a sale here, for sure.
> Thanks John F


Hey John..........you have a PM!!!

JS


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## sidejobjon

*Tjetsgrig Arms*

Received 4 arms yesterday two quads. I will keep posted how builds goes.
Thanks Jim Arms look sweet fair pricing, quick ship


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## Joe65SkylarkGS

sidejobjon said:


> Received 4 arms yesterday two quads. I will keep posted how builds goes.
> Thanks Jim Arms look sweet fair pricing, quick ship


Hey bud!!

Jim is the arm guru!!!!

Come out em to the drag test!!!!! You are only 15 minutes away pal. Set em up and let's dance!!!

John did you see this?http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?p=3682293#post3682293


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## tjetsgrig

How goes the brass John?? How are the motors workin' for ya?


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## sidejobjon

Jim,
I have to be about the slowest. Your arms are not the problem. Went to buy some Brass yesterday for building "meet Joe skylark there" I have about one running with one off your Arms bench tested you can Hear the power. These car are very fussy to get pickups correct bronze from scrach, trying to build correct front ends need Cigar box rims, grind pin tickness & high just right, still learning .But i been messing with home made rims "aluminun" with silicone coated sponge. Soldering homemade body mounts. I will take some pictures. Not counting 4 hr a day commute & getting lawn mower ready.


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## sidejobjon

*TCP Progress / Jim Sgrig ARMS*

Here`s a picture with some progress. I installed 4 arms from Jim Sgrig 2 are Quadurlames Two are balanced & rewound ,Jim will tell you more, in top plate`s. Got one car runing on Bench MOTOR SCREAMES .His work looks like Jewlery & afordable. These cars are fussy pickup have to be tweeked just right for my old AFX track.


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## Joe65SkylarkGS

Good looking crop there Johnny!!!

You coming this sunday???? The Show?


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## sidejobjon

*Doug Morris TCP BRASS*

Heres a picture Dougs work on a TCP Chassis. Like jewlery.


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## dtomol

*Modified Cobra mIte*

Has anyone ever seen a Modified Cobra Mite Chassis? I have one that I got from a hobby shop in Bellville NJ. It has brass plates soldered to the bottom of the chassis and an axel tube in the front it handles pretty sweet. Their original selling phrase was might low & mighty fast. I know of the Drag mite but never have seen on up close. I had all three brass chassis the Dyna brute which I sold to Joe at Nostalgia Hobby the Riggen & several cobra mites.


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## Joe65SkylarkGS

dtomol said:


> Has anyone ever seen a Modified Cobra Mite Chassis? I have one that I got from a hobby shop in Bellville NJ. It has brass plates soldered to the bottom of the chassis and an axel tube in the front it handles pretty sweet. Their original selling phrase was might low & mighty fast. I know of the Drag mite but never have seen on up close. I had all three brass chassis the Dyna brute which I sold to Joe at Nostalgia Hobby the Riggen & several cobra mites.



I know I never seen one Dennis.

Please try to post us a picture or two if you can. :thumbsup:


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## sidejobjon

Dennis,
I was from Bloomfield 1956 -1990. Did you buy them at Drews or Nutley Race way. I think my first post on Brass HO Scratch is a copy of a Scratch -mite.
Photo please also i never heard Might low- mighty Fast i like that. PM if you would like to trade one you have?
Thanks John F


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## sidejobjon

*Jim Sgrig*

Hey i never asked does Jim " Yellow Jacket" Wind can motors????
May open some new doors for Brass Chassis??


Because we all know if you want the fastest pancake motor hes the man.

Let me know


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## dtomol

Shoped at Both Drews & Nutley race way. I got the Chassis from Nutley Raceway. I lowed Drews for their Tjets. Went their like at leat one a month after pay day and picked up a new tjet. They would put the style that you wanted on the track all four lanes too see which one was the fastes then do it again with another batch till you got the fastes one. Then they would serialize it and record it in their ledger. I got my first Tjets from Riches Hobbty Town in parsippany NJ in 1964. Got the set for Christmas but cars were hard to come by. Richie rented cars to race at his track the so I bought a falcon. What happened to the Falcon is a story for another day.


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## alpink

Jon, I don't think Sgrig has time to consider winding inline motors, he has all he can keep up with winding sweet pancakes. I used to get some terrific arms from Bob Lincoln/Wizzard. BSRT has a line of custom winds too. I don't know anything about Slotech.


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## Hornet

edit.


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## sidejobjon

dtomol said:


> Shoped at Both Drews & Nutley race way. I got the Chassis from Nutley Raceway. I lowed Drews for their Tjets. Went their like at leat one a month after pay day and picked up a new tjet. They would put the style that you wanted on the track all four lanes too see which one was the fastes then do it again with another batch till you got the fastes one. Then they would serialize it and record it in their ledger. I got my first Tjets from Riches Hobbty Town in parsippany NJ in 1964. Got the set for Christmas but cars were hard to come by. Richie rented cars to race at his track the so I bought a falcon. What happened to the Falcon is a story for another day.


I have some drews chassis she would ingrave Tjet Model number i think she did not want anyone on her track if you did not buy car from her. Are you in Clayton NJ that were Pat Dennis " Mister TYCO PRO raced at".
So if you knew Hobby Town you must remember o`dowds ? Ice cream up front Slots in the back. WOW tell me more about NUTLEY.
Thanks John


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## sidejobjon

*Monster Truck & landshark*

These were fun to build. The monster truck i need to spend more time on Adding the spring to the pick up system.
And this is Al`s Landshark it is quick. Fair price Pictures are getting worse.


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## joegri

wow man the monster is a cool scratch build i ilke it alot!!! as for the landshark i,m just very jelous i cant get the email machine to work so i can buy 1.bummer maybe someday it,ll work !! very cool sidejob.


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## slotcarman12078

That 4X4 is wicked!!! I contemplated trying to make a couple one of these days for myself. I wondered if gluing a couple neos above the pick ups might be enough to keep the assembly planted on the track... Maybe under the pick up assembly would be enough to keep them working without wearing them down prematurely... Just a guess. Never attempted anything like that.


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## alpink

putting magnets directly on the pickups is disaster. seen it done and it didn't work well.


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## slotcarman12078

I had a feeling directly on top of the shoes would be. I was kinda thinking above the shoe, but attached to the shoe holder. I tried a little brass work last year and failed miserably without a decent jig. I never ever got the the pick up part of it. Thanks for saving me the failure the first test would have been!


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## alpink

I have put Radio Shack dots in Aurora 4 gear chassis just above the pickup shoes and in about the same place as Auto World has chosen in the rear. the car stuck like glue and rolled well. of course, it had a real hot arm and some good magnets and only ever ran on the drag track, but, the four corner traction magnets worked well for me.


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## CJ53

I have used dot magnets on the pickup shoe of my monster truck,, it works.. yes sometimes the brass pickup shoes do wear out ,, but they will anyway with the proper spring tension to keep the guide in the slot while doin car/hill climbs. Not tough to replace, suck em down!
CJ


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## Bill Hall

*At a glance*

That's a nifty build. How about some more pix?

Those look like foils! Try braids!

A lot of pick up voodoo has to do with the angle of the dangle. I would exhaust some other possibilities before I loaded extra weight or excessive drag onto your pick ups. Hard to tell from the picture, but from what I can see the "attack" angle of the drop arm/rod appears to be level if not canted rearward a bit. I call it "heeled".

With the added "boing factor" that foils provide; the tendency for float and stutter would be aggrevated... a propensity for disconnect as it were. Ideally you want your forward motion to drive the pick up arm down towards the track and thus firmly planting the pick ups onto the rails. 

Take a look at larger scale cars of old and study how the drop arms were set up. Although the concept requires only simple geometry to work, the set up has to hang correctly. The angle should be one of forward declination which requires the pivot point to slightly higher than the contact point.


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## sidejobjon

*Thanks*

Heres the step by step instructions.http://slotcar64.freeyellow.com/mt_ctc1.html


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## sidejobjon

*NJ Brass war race*

Not much Notice but this Sunday Brass wars race at NJ Nostalgia Hobby.
I just found out i want to try and make it. This year three races Riggen HO,
Brass Wars Race, and Scratch built race. Hope to see some HT members there I love all HO brass Chassis & Scratch Building.


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## Joe65SkylarkGS

Johnny boy, I will def stop by. And see the action. I have zero brass in race condition. And you know Joe won't have any in stock. Maybe Ron will bring some to sell?? If so, I am in!!!!!

Whats the deal Johnny boy?


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## sidejobjon

*Think 70 `S*

Joe,
You have them. You can run TYCO PRO, AFX Pan, Super II. ECT

Call me in AM


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## sidejobjon

*copy joels Chassis*

This is not a Pat Dennis Motor this is from a RC helicopter.


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## slotnewbie69

are there tjet drive gears that would work for a sidewinder?


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## alpink

might be able to use a 14 tooth armature gear on the axle as a spur gear and drive it with a 9 tooth pinion gear. I dunno though. the 14 tooth has an inside diameter to fit snuggly on the armature which is 0.70 or there abouts and the regular axles are about 0.64 down to 0.59 . hope someone else can verify or correct this info.


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## sidejobjon

Al & Slotnewbie,
I don`t claim to be an expert i only enjoy scratch Building . Thanks to Ron`s Riggen site with History & photos & Pros like Pat Dennis, Doug Morris ,& Early Builders I was lucky enough to have some fun & take a few parade laps,with cars i built. I only see with practice i am getting happier with my work & solder joints getting better. Like Bill Hall says you need patience take your time, put it down & go back to it "great advice". They are definitely fussier then Plastic out of box cars, constent tweeking, you can fall off track & put it back on & may run better or not at all. I just enjoy them maybe the weight, or the shine of brass & solder or the fact that you make them run , & There is People on here that say "Duplicating easy" this is not true. Getting the Gear mesh right, & pickups correct & square & height is no Joke .When you see what it takes to do all this then it runs WOW or just the way it looks.
Yes i use the brass tjet gears. I slide one on the knareled section of a treaded axle fit nice tight. Sometimes i solder Tjet gear to brass nut on a treaded axle then screw on a Axle behide the tire. If you see the diamater of the shaft on the small motor in picture, i sleeve it with KS brass tube Make sure you go to local Hobby store / or craft store buy all differant sizes & thickness Brass Tube , Rod , Sheets. Keep open mind no wrong or right way Think outside the Box & have fun.
Thanks John F


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## slotnewbie69

hey thanks for that al and jon!great answers


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## sidejobjon

*Running*

Joels copy running. Fun to build wish i had more time.


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## sidejobjon

*Pat dennis limited*

http://www.toybaron.com/PatDennisMK2progress.htm#Jan2012

Here you can see the progress of the TYCO Mark II limited addition . By no other then Pat Dennis.
Maybe when this project complete, he will spend time to make use some tutorials on Scratch building. :thumbsup:
Thanks Pat


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## sidejobjon

*Old School Lexan TJET Dragsters*

Had some time today ,been wanting to builds these for a while. Like the old Lexan Cobra-mite dragsters. But with TJET Chassis.Need to get ready for the new SKYHIGH DRAGSTIP


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## Hilltop Raceway

Cool stuff sjb...Looks like more brass wars a brewing...RM


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## sidejobjon

*Doug Morris*

Here is a picture of Doug morris limited edition lead sled i picked up. This is from 1970`s Model mag . Dougs work is amazing. I will see if he is a member toget better pictures. 
SJJ


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## joegri

i agree the chassis that doug morris makes are really nice! i also got his news letter just to see whats going on in the brass/sccratch build world. plus i recieved a package today from doug. i got 3 handling pans and some brushtubes. sjj thanx to you sir i now am azz deep in chassis to be built!!! the picture of the leadsled is fine cuz i,m sure it goes so fast alls you can see is a blurrrr. keep building!


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## Marty

He does some kool stuph. How do I sign up for his newsletter?
Marty
Marysville, OH


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## 9finger hobbies

I've built a couple out of non magnet AFX cars. Trying to remember the maker of the pan, but I scratch build my shaker pans and modify the chassis with Super II brush tubes and a lot of sanding and filing to theoriginal chassis. I can't figure how to post pics here , so I'll get some up on my profile. I also have pics on Balls Out's site in thier gallery.


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## Marty

Were they TPS pans?
Marty
Marysville, OH


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## sidejobjon

Marty,
T.C.P. Tom Coyne Products Ottsville , Michigan
Lot history on Riggen site
SJJ


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## ruralradio

*My latest victim.....*

Here's the start of a new "pick-up" car using a nos TCP "Pro-pan"..... hmmm, nearly running out of room for photos.....


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## joegri

*yummy chop,em up!*

nice start rural. i thought something was on the bench. i saw you bought some chassis on the swapnsell section!! that concept of barrels n stock pick ups looks cool ! keep posting pics please i,m goin to skool on this. just started an afx pan myself this evening.


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## joegri

*new pan in da works*

suddenly i,m smittin with these pan cars. i,ve started a second 1 after having moderate success with my tjet pan attempt. this time i,m using a standard afx chassis and some go fast parts lets see ... a yellowjacket arm,dash mags,superII fronts, and some stuff i just ordered from jag hobbies.it,s guys like sidejobjohn ruralradio boosted and bill hall that get me inpired to play with these hybred chassis. nearest i can think of i,m just bored at throwing go fast parts at tjets then start another 1. these pan cars take lots of time and fitting and tryin stuff then mix in a soldering iron. just basicly using every tool on the bench!cept an airbrush i cant paint for beans.i,ll post a few pics later after i get a lil farther along.also wating to see what ruralradio has going too!!


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## ruralradio

*so far, so good....*

Plummer side pans, rear axle bushings and a Wizzard front assembly next. Not untill I replace the differential in my Spitfire and get some new brakes on the truck, though....


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## joegri

*more pan stuff*

been workin on this all spring n this is what i have. put the braids on the pan and got the pan mounted to the chassis and the brush cup in. now i started thinkin bout a body and this 1 keeps falling on the chassis. what is that thing? i know its a tyco(cuz it says on bottom)cuz of the heavy rain today and the tm was at work i had some quality cave time today.still wating for a few things before i work the gearplate but this is it for now.actually i,ve been thinkin bout goin fishin and swimming more than slots these days! lol


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## Marty

Nice work on the chassis. The body is a McLaren Mk 8B.

Marty
Marysville, OH


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## Bill Hall

Woo-hoo! Quality cave time!

Good stuff Joe. I always look forward to your posts.


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## sidejobjon

*Pat Dennis*

Joe,
Nice choice body. Look at the Riggen site Pat Dennis Progress on Tyco Mark 2 build. He modifide a Hot wheel McLaren MK 6 like the original Mark II in car Model mag early 70`.Made a mold & he is going two knock off Lexans for the limited edition. Hope he makes extra bodies?

Some times when i `am outside by pool wish the cave/ bench was outside, not enough HRS in a day.
Thanks for showing
SJJ


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## Boosted-Z71

Great stuff Joe, That chassis will be very nice when your done. +1 on the Mclaren.

Boosted


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## joegri

thanx so much for the good words and encouragement fellas! hope i can get more time again soon to play. i can see there is still alot of tinkerin to do on the body and chassis. i,ll post pics as it moves foward.


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## tjd241

*Joe, I skipped the cave and hit the shore myself.*

Kind of a shake-down first of the season excursion... 1 Sea Robin.


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## joegri

those darn bait robbing searobins. but a fish none the less! did it bark at ya when ya got ,em in? that always freaks me out.


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## sidejobjon

*Modelville Hobbys*

Joe / TJD,
Did you guys hit Modelville Hobbys MA?
Thanks SJJ


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## joegri

*well i finnaly finished it... for the moment*

man i dont even know how long i,ve been tinkerin on this,but it feels like a long time. with a few good sessions in the last week or so the afx pan is done! i mean there are a few small thing that will make it over the top good.it has about 100 laps on it so i dont know how long it,ll hold up or a good wall hit (which i avoid)will do to it. but best so far is you can feel it commin round the corner with its weight!!! thunder road baby! i just dont like the wheel hop it makes halfway down my longest straight! i,m guessin axel or wheelbad.the only thing left i guess is to mount a body on it.if any of you guys wanna try this its a lot of time (for me ) but its also a lot of fun. grab a pan from doug morris n start carvin up an afx !!


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## Bill Hall

Nice work Joe!


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## sidejobjon

*Nostalgia*

Joe,
Great work , Did you go to Modelville In MA???? Heard they have best HO tracks?
Any one going to Nostalgia Hobbys in Scotch plains NJ for Brass War race??
Date is not on web site yet some Sunday in July "JOE YOU CAN RACE THAT THERE"
WHOS GOING??
SJJ


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## Boosted-Z71

Your killing me Joe, I just have too much other stuff going on to work on my pan car.

Great Job!

Boosted


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## Marty

Are TCP pans or copies of them available?

Thanks,
Marty
Marysville, OH


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## bobhch

Joe,

Hey that looks like fun!! :thumbsup:

Bob...Zoom, Zoom...zilla


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## joegri

*availibility*

yes marty you can get some of the last ones . i got mine from doug morris. and to get his web go to hardin creek slot cars or ho i forgot. look under doug morris builds . hurry go get 1 before they.re gone!!! doug is way cool to deal with. happy buildin / carvin!!


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## WesJY

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

Wes


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## slotcarman12078

Great job JoeG!! I probably mentioned this before, but in case I didn't.. I don't know if anyone has tried this before, but double sided copper clad board is available. A couple of small squares can be soldered to the top side front of the brass, and that would provide a good mounting point for your braids. The board pieces would insulate the solder joint from the pan, yet allow a solid mounting spot. I bet that chassis slides really good through the curves!! :thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## Marty

joegri said:


> yes marty you can get some of the last ones . i got mine from doug morris. and to get his web go to hardin creek slot cars or ho i forgot. look under doug morris builds . hurry go get 1 before they.re gone!!! doug is way cool to deal with. happy buildin / carvin!!


Thanks, I just put my order in.

I knew the name sounded familiar, I set up next to him at the Mid West slot car show. As good as pictures of his cars look, in person they are amazing.

Marty
Marysville, OH


----------



## ruralradio

Hi. Joegri shot me a PM a few weeks ago wondering what I've been up to. A busy summer at work, but managed to get this one finished, power by Yellow Jacket. Had a contact problem with the rear brush tube, will pretty it up later. Now, off to Orlando to chase a mouse with my granddaughter!


----------



## joegri

*lookin good rural!!!*

now thats what i,m talkin bout . i know all the work that goes into building 1 of these pans but that pan looks like you were workin overtime. i still have 1 of tthat type pan left and savin it for the winter.powered by yellow jacket bet it really goes good! excelent job rural always cool to see what others are doing! now if boosted will get crakin on his!!! check that, better let a sleeping dog lay. cuz i,m sure boost would build a winner n blow the doors off all of us! hope that chassis is going to do good at the races.


----------



## sidejobjon

joegri said:


> now thats what i,m talkin bout . i know all the work that goes into building 1 of these pans but that pan looks like you were workin overtime. i still have 1 of tthat type pan left and savin it for the winter.powered by yellow jacket bet it really goes good! excelent job rural always cool to see what others are doing! now if boosted will get crakin on his!!! check that, better let a sleeping dog lay. cuz i,m sure boost would build a winner n blow the doors off all of us! hope that chassis is going to do good at the races.


I took third with mine at the NJ Brass War race "an yes there was a YELLOW JACKET ARM" Thanks Jim i heard you will be selling there soon Joe`s store is Great
There was three races Riggen, Brass war, Then scratch Built. I also took third in Scratch built i used Doug Morris Limited edition Lead sled , I know i do not have to tell you guys but he can build. The Scratch race was the best Land shark ByChapperal, & Tony Kurdzuk i meet there he is a great builder. I am sure results will be on Nostaigias web site soon. Great day
SJJ


----------



## joegri

*thats great news!!*

glad to here that you did good at the race.. all your builds look great!!now i,m curios about the lead sled chassis.. sjj if you get time could you post more pics of the sled and did doug build it or was a kit form and most of all how much$$$ for 1. also i do have an interest in the land shark too. should have gotten 1 last year but chapperal is really hard to get in tuoch with.


----------



## demether

Really nice cars ! I only ran some modified brass pan tjets : 











and they already were a completly diferent experience in driving. Not the best custom cars I ran, my tyco 440x2 magnetless modified chassis are better : 




















probably because I'm not a great car engineer, but my brasspan tjet is really fun. 




For people like me (= not a car tuning wizzard) interested in brass chassis, try to find a cheap used tycopro (the ones with leaf shoes), with good silis it's a load of fun to race also :thumbsup:





















Brass cars are not just cool vintage slot cars, they are also a competly diferent way to embrace ho slot racing (and slot racing in general). :thumbsup:


Again, really nices cars, one of my favorite topics on HT. Please keep posting :wave:


----------



## ParkRNDL

demether said:


> Really nice cars ! I only ran some modified brass pan tjets :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and they already were a completly diferent experience in driving.


I am itching to try a Tjet with a brass pan like this, set up with Tuff Ones or AFX wheels. I'm always nervous about the thought of the brass shorting on the rails, but I gotta get one of these anyway.





demether said:


> For people like me (= not a car tuning wizzard) interested in brass chassis, try to find a cheap used tycopro (the ones with leaf shoes), with good silis it's a load of fun to race also :thumbsup:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Brass cars are not just cool vintage slot cars, they are also a competly diferent way to embrace ho slot racing (and slot racing in general). :thumbsup:
> 
> 
> Again, really nices cars, one of my favorite topics on HT. Please keep posting :wave:


Lately I have been diddling with Tycopros and I have found they are not always the twitchy, undriveable beasts I thought they were. I have discovered a couple that are smooth and wonderful to drive. Too bad they are a pain to work on... on my favorite one, the terminal tab attached to one of the lead wires has worked itself loose from the contact on the motor and I can't figure out how to get it hooked up and wedged in there again so it'll stay...

--rick


----------



## demether

Tjets with brasspan are safe, once you're using tires thick enough. But tjet brasspan cars are not that much more eficient than a good stock tuffone tjet with good tires, I think. 

I don't know, I didn't went really far in tjet brass preparation and tuning. Since I don't see much preparations based on tjet + brasspan, I guess it's not the magic formula for tjets. Fray class style preparation seems to be the best actually. 



Tycopro chassis make me more enthusiast. Once well cleaned and with good tires and tuned shoes, it works really well on my 13.8v 8amperes track. I thing these old school chassis give their best on big amperes power supplies (not necessary a lot of voltage, but plenty of amperes make a diference).


----------



## sidejobjon

*Brass cars*

Dimitri/Rick
Sometimes Brass Chassis have clear tape on bottom if you are real low to protect shorting.
You may have to strip the wire , & resolder to repair that pickup.
I wish i had a youtube of the scratch built race or any of the three, you would swear these cars had magnets. Maybe something on you tube i think under Riggen test?

I guess i am just hooked I like collecting HO, Racing HO, & Building HO.
Three Hobbys in one.
Thanks SJJ


----------



## demether

Here's a vid of my (unique for now) tycopro restaured car (long wheel base, it's a pain to find compatible bodies, resin or lexan, by the way...  ) : 








The car is just cleaned, and have a pair of orings on front and basic silicon tires on front. No special tuning, not even a real greasing or pickup shoes tuning (I bet changing the wires for silicone ones should make the driving better, for example). 

As you can see, the drive runs well (13.8volt 8amperes), even driving AND filming with the camera 


An easy, 100% magnetless (since the motor cage magnets does not appears on back side) and fun car to drive. :thumbsup:


I'm still trying to make my own tycopro race class, but it's not that easy to find the correct chassis (people not shpping to france, "collector price" too expensive for me, etc...).


----------



## Bill Hall

demether said:


> *******
> 
> I don't know, I didn't went really far in tjet brass preparation and tuning. Since I don't see much preparations based on tjet + brasspan, I guess it's not the magic formula for tjets. Fray class style preparation seems to be the best actually.
> 
> **********


Yes of course. Clunky add on brass pans are old school and provide very limited advantages. Adding more mass hampers acceleration AND keeping the stock mass at the stock ride height to accomodate the pan doesnt do you a lot of favors in handling. Brass pans are a nostalgia thing.

Rather than adding a major chunk of mass, Fray style set ups move the existing stock mass closer to the track; a mass which is already engineeered low in the chassis housing . No need to add big clunker chunks of bulk to slow you down.

It's long been proven that moving the already existing and nicely compact core of "stock" mass is the way to go. The only additional weights you'll see is front axle weights to help balance the car and to help keep firmer pick up shoe settings planted for maximum current transfer. Additionally most of the modern Fray spec bodies carry some extra bulk around the rockers and valences.

In essence, any additionally added weight is at or below the axle centers AND outside the chassis frame. Doing so allows the ENTIRE chassis mass to be lowered without interference.

A brass pan simply gets in the way of the fast way around the track


----------



## sidejobjon

*results*

http://njhobby.net/home/racing-nj-hobby/race-results/brass-wars-2012/

Again this was a great day.
SJJ


----------



## demether

On these races, does the" open cage" motors chassis (where the can motor is visible from the bottom side) take advantage of the motors' magnets for magnetic downforce, or does it still nothing important enough to be concerned about ?


----------



## joegri

*atta boy sjj !!*

a podium for sjj good job! sounds/looks like a lot of fun.ya gotta try harder to beat the other guys. i cant speak for certain but i dont think there is alot of mag down force on these cars but, i did here that the landshark anglewinder with whats refered to as a al thurman big block motor has lots of down force. just a short brass note. spent lastnite playin with my scrathbuilds and after alot of fussin with the braids i could get it to go real good but still needs to be experimented with for it to be totally pleasing.


----------



## demether

thank for the answer. Where do you get these thin copper shoes for your cars ? Mine on my tycopro are old, but I don't know what I should use for replacement.


----------



## Bill Hall

Demether, post 2343 for a viable option.

I'm done with "foils", the thin Tycopro pick ups, forever! I made a re-useable insert that carries a braid. They just click in and click out like the originals. 

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=215904&page=157

You will find other Tyco braid conversion tutorials by "Grungerockjeeper" in the tuning section


----------



## demether

Nice tricks, braid is a way easier to find, and I have some extra clamps to test your idea. 

thanks !


----------



## Bill Hall

I'm sure any type of thin flat stock would do. Clamps, old pick up shoes...maybe? Whatever you have. Even if it's slightly too thick, you can champfer the edges to fit the guide flag slots. 

I have enjoyed greater reliability. The only serious disclaimers are that you have to solder competently; and rough rail transitions on sectional track can be hard on braids. 

Very smooth, very quiet, very consistent performence cant be bad.


----------



## momstractors

Doug Morris here, Side Job John asked me to do the unthinkable, post!

I have found the .003 bronze at cloverhouse, they are a model railroad supplier. Google it as Clover House. It compares very favorably with the .003 bronze that we bought from Marty Thalison, aka Bronze Man back in the 70s.

If anyone looked at John's Lead Sled you will see that I made holders that snapped into the stock Tyco flag so the wiper could be changed without soldering.

About the Tyco Pro with the clip that won't stay in. I assume you are talking about the motor contact side. The hole in the little brass strip is for a little molded pin on the bottom of the arms that come off the center of the chassis,(over the strip), it's often broke off. Very delicate set up. 

In reference to the "open cage" motors and magnetic attraction in the NJ Hobby Brass Race, yes, all of the cars with visible motors have more downforce.

I race in the Midwest Gravity series, we use a lift test pin developed by Joel Pennington. If the car can pick it up then it's not legal, simple as that. The pin is a piece of drill blank about 5/16" by 1" (guessing) with a wrap of clear tape. Joel zeroed in on the size so that a Super II or a Riggen with a vintage Mabuchi HT-50 motor, the old one with the green and orange (weak) magnets would just pass the lift test. The idea was to race with about the same amount of downforce that we were experiencing back in the beginning of the Brass Wars. The pin can be bought somewhere for about 3.00, through Rick DeRosa (Quicker Engineering) for sure. 

Of the cars in the pictures, if the Afx based cars have Super II or Dash magnets (no poly) and are not lowered within the car then they would pass the lift test as would the Lead Sled.

I'm not sure about the Tyco Pros because I don't know if they are brass or steel pans, Tyco made them both ways and I'm talking about the gold pans, not the old black pans. I simply have never tested any, my guess is they would all pass.

None of the Riggens or the Landshark in the picture would pass the test, in fact they would all pickup up the pin with a resounding "thunk"!

So of the cars pictured there is a big variance of downforce. The modern Mabuchi, I don't know a number for it, the one with the tabs that hold the magnets and the big bushings, they have very strong magnets, on par with a Tyco 440-X2. Tyco used that motor in the HP-7 cars and the magnets interchange with the 440-X2.

On the debate of the brass pan T-jet verses Fray car. The reasoning of lowering existing mass rather than raising and adding more weight under it makes perfect sense. The first HOPRA I ever raced in I used a Tuff Ones with an AJ's pan, Cobra Clip w/Cobramite lexan (?) body, the Afx had yet to arrive. The old Cobra Clip really didn't make sense, a big heavy brass thing mounted up high to mount a lighter body!!

My current version of the Afx TCP Pro Pan car that utilizes the stock pickups handles very good and is quite fast overall, but the Afx is a different car.

And to wrap things up, yes, Al Thurman is very difficult to get a hold of, he's a busy guy, keep trying.

Thanks, Doug


----------



## joegri

*alright new poster!!*

wow it,s cool to see doug posted some thoughts on this topic. as stated ealrier in this thread doug has some great pans for the afx that will make a prized car for any slotrodder! glad to have you here on the HT doug and when you get time maybe post some pics of your stuff!! i like to copy.lol. i still have 2 more in the wings that will get worked up this winter.thanx for the tip for the clover bronze .i,m using braids with ok success but i do have to try the bronze. and just a question for you doug. does the leadsled come in kit form ? or are they ready to run only. cool to see ya here hurry back.


----------



## ruralradio

*I'll buy at the Buckhorn....*

Wow, Doug! A post from you is a celebratory thing!


----------



## momstractors

to Joegri, the Lead sled was a limited edition, they were built and sold last winter. I try to do one set of something every year, 8-15 cars depending on the complexity and parts available. I sell them through my newsletter which you can sign up for at Harden Creek Slotcars, just Google it and look under Doug Morris.


----------



## sidejobjon

*Doug Builds*

Joey,
Dougs work is top quaility, And is great to deal with. A must for any collection:thumbsup:
SJJ


----------



## Marty

*rivets/eyelets*

Hey Doug!

Do you have a source for the rivets/eyelets on the non-mag AFX chassis?

Thanks,
Marty
Marysville, OH


----------



## momstractors

Marty, I remember you, you bought some TCP pans from me? Google Volcano Arts, they are called eyelets, you want the 1/16" short, they have them in a couple of colors, I bought copper and brass, both seem to work. I tried to buy the eyelet setter that they list but after it was back ordered for several months Volcano Arts refunded my money and said their supplier could no longer get them. Doug


----------



## Marty

momstractors said:


> I tried to buy the eyelet setter that they list but after it was back ordered for several months Volcano Arts refunded my money and said their supplier could no longer get them. Doug


Thanks! I remember you too!

What do you use to set the eyelets?

Marty
Marysville, OH


----------



## alpink

momstractors, thanx for that info. I just purchased some eyelets and found a hex driver for 0-80 machine screws I just bought from someone else. there are a lot of good tools and accessories on that site, of course I bookmarked it to return to in future. thanx, al


----------



## sidejobjon

*New display cases*

Found these at swap meet, great for displaying Scratch & Brass


----------



## Marty

*AJ's brass pan*

This was an ebay auction I just won and received today. It is an AJ's brass pan AFX solid rivet chassis.










The brass pan hooks into the side body mounts:










It also has a tab that goes into the slot for the guide blade:










And for a little overkill, a previous owner added a rear guide pin!










It kind of surprises me to see that this relatively simple brass piece was outsourced to Hong Kong.

It has some great silicone tires on the back. It goes around the track like it is on rails, until you push it a little harder. Then I think the rear guide pin is a hinderence. The chassis just flips over instead of drifting.

Marty
Marysville, OH


----------



## joegri

wow marty that is a very cool score!! i,m glad you got it,cuz if i had been watchin the ebay i spect i,d bid on it too! drive it like you stole it!!


----------



## Bill Hall

Was eying that one too Marty, too bad some one nuked a hole in the tail plate. I always loved those first gen green/red arms.


----------



## Marty

The chassis was actually on ebay 3 times. He kept lowering the price and I finally bid and won.:wave:

Marty
Marysville, OH


----------



## sidejobjon

*Ho go cart*

We all had one of these growing up. This was fun to build. Chain drive Briggs & Straton
SJJ


----------



## Hornet

SJ,what size tubing did you use.
That's pretty close to what i was mentally imaging for a tube chassis'd fan car,so any spec's on materials you used would be very appreciated.:thumbsup:
Thanks 
Rick


----------



## Boosted-Z71

sidejobjon said:


> We all had one of these growing up. This was fun to build. Chain drive Briggs & Straton
> SJJ


Very cool

Boosted


----------



## smokinHOs

*Brass car..*

I had my eye on thaqt.. wondered who got it. Missed the end of the auction. Wanted the brass handling pan. I kinda collect the old racing stuff..

Cool car. Worked out though- I found a tycopro with a handling pan and recently scored a two engine brass dragster. THAT should be interesting.. LOL

If you sell it, I want it..

-Marc and marcus

Trade you for it???


----------



## sidejobjon

Hornet said:


> SJ,what size tubing did you use.
> That's pretty close to what i was mentally imaging for a tube chassis'd fan car,so any spec's on materials you used would be very appreciated.:thumbsup:
> Thanks
> Rick


Rick,
Piano wire rails are .052. KS brass front end .091 tube. Want to see your fan car when done?
Sorry SJJ


----------



## Hornet

Thanks SJJ.


I'm still kicking around what i want to do for a pick-up shoe system.

What are going to use for your Go-Kart's electrical system.

Now i got this bizarre idea a guy should have a couple go-karts to go with the fan vans,lol.

This place is a bad influence,:wave:
Rick


----------



## sidejobjon

Rick,
Were you get that trader rating? I will also make fan cars as soon as i find the fans, got to stop at a hobby store.
I got inspired, i saw the 1/24 scale go cart.
SJJ


----------



## Marty

smokinHOs said:


> If you sell it, I want it..
> 
> -Marc and marcus
> 
> Trade you for it???


If I had two of them I might consider it. Since it is my only one, I'm going to keep it.

Marty
Marysville, OH


----------



## Hornet

I was gonna ask,what is the Itrader rating,i've never paid any attention to it.

Whatever it is,thanks, i think,lol
Rick


----------



## Boosted-Z71

Hornet said:


> Now i got this bizarre idea a guy should have a couple go-karts to go with the fan vans,lol.
> Rick


Well you have all that new stainless tubing, Might as well make a Kart.

Boosted


----------



## ruralradio

*Not my usual fare....*

Not much time for slots, but managed to pull this one out of the "shelved" projects and make it work. Started life as a Landshark inline kit. Stock HT-50 can, endbell, brushes and springs, the arm and magnets are from a 4 buck Mattel car. Waaaay to much motor on my track, hence the resistor.


----------



## joegri

alright rural glad to see your pluggin away! the inline land shark or anglewinder are a hard get. meaning chapperal really doesnt answer alot of emails. i did see there is a guy selling the inline and angle kits. hope to get 1 or 2 this winter. so if the motor is too much would a green wire mabucci be a safe call? yer build really gets me thinkin bout fireing up the soldering iron. do you have a body picked out for it? thanx for posting pics and good luck.


----------



## sidejobjon

Rural,
Glad you don't live close.I hate to lose ,that car looks like a rocket. Give me a resistor lesson? Send picture with body.
Thanks SJJ


----------



## smokinHOs

*Dual Engine Brass Dragster...*

Ok.. I didn't see this thread until I posted in the forum. I will move it here...

Dual Engine Brass Old School Dragster. Clearly it was built a while ago judging by the tjet tires and rims coupled with the can Big Block motors. Anyone recognize the motors on this thing. Thought you guys would enjoy it..

-marc and marcus


----------



## Marty

That is KOOL! It looks like the builder took a drop pick up arm from a 1/24 scale slot car to make the frame. The pick up and gears look like a Cobra Mite.

Marty
Marysville, OH


----------



## sidejobjon

M&M,
Way cool how did the join shafts?
SJJ


----------



## smokinHOs

*Dual Drag*

It looks like the front of the back armature shaft and rear shaft of the front armature were connected with a small piece of tubing or plastic. It's hard and I don't see any glue or solder.. They spin together though..

-Marc and marcus


----------



## Bill Hall

Nostalgia!

Very old school cool. Thanx for helping flesh out the brass thread Marc.


----------



## smokinHOs

*TycoPro Brass w/ handling pan...*

Ok.. so while I have the camera handy, here's another one. Same person had it, noticed that the brass bottom looked different than the typical TycoPro brass pan. After further inspection I figured out why it looked funny. To my knowledge Tyco never made a a brass pan chassis with a arm "window" machined out. Once I got it in the mail, I realized what I suspected, it is a handling pan. There are no markings on the pan and can only assume 
Twinn-K or AJ's (leaning toward Twinn-K). Any thoughts???

-marc and marcus


----------



## sidejobjon

Marc,
I have one thats a AJ that is stamped. I think MURA also made one with hole to cool motor? Also old Car Model Mag had artical way back when that told you to cut it out, but don`t see the TYCO stamp. Not much help but three options.
Thanks SJJ


----------



## smokinHOs

*Mura?*

Being that I am a bit younger than many of the "Tjet guys" I was raised on the HP7, 440, and 440x2 chassis's. I had an AFX magnatraction and Gplus scattered in there from my older bro.

The TycoPro style was not something I got into until years later. Honestly I though the wiper style HPs were a mess and typically wore out if you could find them. The buttom style were much better but never could compete with the later Tycos or modern SG+'s so why bother...? Right?

But now that I am into the older hop-up stuff, tires, handling pans, weight kits and the like, this one intrigued me. It has been clearly machined (including the hole for the motor). The original drop arm "holder" for lack of a better description has replaced the original design from what I can tell. 

I have come across the TwinnK, and AJ's but Mura is new to me. I also recently missed an auction for tjet pans called "Phaze lll" by C&M products (i think). Would like to get a shot at those again. 

Thanks for your input. 

HEY RICK- you out there? I need to run these things. Can I buy some track time??? LOL

-Marc and marcus


----------



## bdsharp

I built 4 of these about ten years ago. Brass chassis don't get no simpler than that. Held the road very well, but with no gear reduction they had very little braking action and coasted freely, so had to be driven carefully. Big fun, though, and silent.


----------



## smokinHOs

*Direct drive...*

That looks almost identical to my Rattler that Ed Bianchi built years ago too. Interesting car.. has some crazy top speed if you can get them up to it and sustain it. Hard to use on a 1/32nd sectional track but the braided/routed tracks the slide guides are a blast..

-marc and marcus


----------



## bdsharp

Yeah, I kind of borrowed Ed's Rattler design when I used his template method of track routing. Both worked great.


----------



## ruralradio

*Lookin' for trouble.....*

Here's the latest, looks like a garden variety brass panned A/FX, but the killer super demon tweak is in there, even if you can't see it, worth about 2/10's on my track. Don't remember anyone doing this in the day, don't know why we didn't (or, like me now, nobody let on...). BRASCAR legal, and passes the gravity unlimited lift pin test. Now, if I could only paint......


----------



## sidejobjon

Rural,
What's the killer super demon tweak. I like the air cooler.
SJJ

BDSharp,
Iam looking for a Rattler 1. I have a two, Anyone know what is the difference?
Thanks in advance


----------



## ruralradio

sidejobjon said:


> Rural,
> What's the killer super demon tweak?


Hmmmmm....... not gonna let the cat out of the bag just yet, need to check with a couple other old timers as to if this mod has been done before. I could show a body off top shot and it's not noticable. Just pick up a bare A/FX chassis, turn it over in your fingers a few times, and think of weight and center of gravity.....:devil: Actually, I need to build another car with the same feature to see if it performs much the same, or if I have one of those mythical "perfect" chassis that show up now and then and are just naturally fast.


----------



## sidejobjon

Rural,
Did you swicth mags to sides, instead front & back? No that would be noticable.??????
You can tell me ,theres only one Brass war race a year here.LOL
SJJ


----------



## bdsharp

I don't know anything about Rattlers other than what you could see in Ed's pictures. I just wanted to see if I could build something that would work. Fun project.


----------



## joegri

*another trik ride*

rural that is a beauty! i think i see what your doing to the afx? ya know as far as a paint job goes the only thing that should look good is the taillights!! always cool to see yer posts. this is just what i need to get my butt in gear n build something. just gotta find a lil time. (which is a good thing) finnaly getting a bit more busy with work.


----------



## sidejobjon

smokinHOs said:


> I have come across the TwinnK, and AJ's but Mura is new to me. I also recently missed an auction for tjet pans called "Phaze lll" by C&M products (i think). Would like to get a shot at those again.


M&M,
June 1970 Car Model Mag has ad for the Mura Tyco pan. I think yours is Mura, because it's not stamped AJ's.
Thanks SJJ


----------



## sidejobjon

*F1 1960`s*

Working on some Little motors .


----------



## joegri

*what a concept!!*

wow sjj you opened my eyes to a different kinda scratch build. all this time i,ve tried to make a car with a full body n cover the wheels. yer rendition of an f1 car has got me thinkin about this style car...seems doable for me(maybe) i like the front suspention lots looks very realistic! nice job on that. also what type of motor is that? inquireing minds what to know. just a lil curious what yer gonna use for a guide flag. in all i,m jazzed to see this one comming along plz post more pics as she comes together. very cool man!!


----------



## Bill Hall

Go Jon Go! 

This project has been on my list of things to investigate. I'd seen the K series chassis with the goofy Tomy rear sections band-aided in and thought, If some one doesnt fix that I'm gonna have to try and make a full metal one.

I rekon they're all about the quick change/snap in rear ends. What other reason could there be for not going full boat?

I'm digging the blending of the Slimline into your prototype. You've been reading my mind again. Please dial up the macro and post often, YOU HAVE MY UNDIVIDED ATTENTION! :thumbsup:


----------



## sidejobjon

Bill,
Coming from you , is a honor in my book. I will try to take my time to the end of this project, now i know the master is watching.
I bought couple Fomular K they run really sweet 7 amps.
I was waiting on some mini motors from the bay & got fooled by the picture ,they arrived to large, More on way.
Thanks SJJ


----------



## Joe65SkylarkGS

John i have a bag of those tiny motors in my Attic.


----------



## sidejobjon

*wanted*

Wanted tiny motors & not mint Aurora F1`s or others TYCO , ATLAS ECT pm what you have & want for them?
Thanks SJJ


----------



## sidejobjon

I screwed the motor to bracket with .80 screws in case need to swap.
& installed pickups last night. Bob Burns heard motor during phone conversation.
Next will be gear mesh.
SJJ


----------



## Gareth

That really is awe inspiring work Jon. Can I ask if you made a jig or some kind of chassis rig first? Your first shots showed you'd made several chassis all at once and I'm just wondering how you managed to keep everything straight and true.

I'm really into the idea of scratch building in the future but I foresee many crabbed chassis due to my appalling hand eye co-ordination!

If you are building with a view to selling then by all means tell me to work it out for myself!!


----------



## sidejobjon

Garth,
Yes used a jig called Rick s RGEO HO jig. chassis not for sale build for fun & wanted to make one for each lane when the guys come over.
Thank SJJ


----------



## joegri

hey sjj lookin good man!
because i,m not good at soldering i was bumpin round google and youtube. i came across this stuff called soldering paste(ever see it or use it (anybody?)
in the video seems you spread some on the heat it with a small torch. i wonder if it works with an iron. cuz of the size of our hobby when i add a piece to a busy area i desolder the previous piece i just put on uggg!. this paste stuff has a low melt temp like 1300 degrees. just thinkin out loud.i,m back in the cave later tonite to try some new/different idea. sjj does the motor your using on the f1 car have a name? i,d like to try one and what volts do they run at? i,m liken the front end on the f1 looks real cool! thanx


----------



## WesJY

SJJ - the chassis is looking good! :thumbsup:

Wes


----------



## Boosted-Z71

I Like that chassis, Looks great man, like a go-Kart on steroids!

Boosted


----------



## sidejobjon

Boosted post 135 on page 9 shows the go cart.
Thanks SJJ


----------



## sidejobjon

*Chappy iii*

Heres a picture of proto should be shipping soon. Robert Chappy did some Gret work


----------



## Joe65SkylarkGS

Real nice looking set up. 

Can't wait to get my pair!!


----------



## sidejobjon

Joe ,
Stop by Chappy sent me one with a junk box arm & its smooth.
See if i can get Robert to add short video.
SJJ


----------



## joegri

so glad to see this thread back! i looked back a bunch of pages and gave up.actualy i thought the new ht dumped it never to be seen again. time to fire up the iron and get back to it!


----------



## joegri

is cool to see chapperal/al thuman posting some of his wares for sale on the luckybob site.would be cool to hear from him for tips and triks to scratch building too.i ,m of the school that if more folk post pics and techniques of brass chassis building this type of slotcar would flourish.for me it,s alot of test and error. i,d like to see a "how to" anglewinder chassis or even buy a kit form. that type of chassis really has me curious.also a drop arm chassis is a great idea and bill h has made a good lookin one that has me thinkin that maybe the way to go with scratchbuilding. just thinkin out loud.


----------



## joegri

i have many questions on the topic of scratch building.as i look back a few pages at model murdering i did find a few answers(thanx bill). the first is anealing what does it mean/do ? seems you heat up some of the tube stock with the tourch and it helps with bending the tube with out crimping it.also quenching it. reheat tubing and douse it in water to put strength back into brass. as i havnt tried these methods yet they are on the list of things to be tried. but most of all is motor mounting/gear mesh !!! to me this is the hardest and most important part of scratch building. again a look at model murdering you will see bill uses a niecly cut chunck of brass for a bulkhead for the motor to be mounted in. but this is where i get lost. i have the new tiny motor that i want to use on the next try and i see it can be screwed to the bulkhead. but my question is.. what size screws are these?? they are smaller than small.maybe somebody has some intel of the size. oh and one more...heat sinks jisp has mentioned zilla putty guess you just put a wade around an area that you dont want to get hot and melt something you previously soldered. i was hoping that this would stay close to the first page so others would be able to add or ask questions. this part of the hobby(scratch building)seems to be the hardest of all to do and do good. personally i suk at it but, it is way fun and very slow moving. really there is no instant reward just small baby steps.if you have any answers or questions hopefully you can find them here! just tryin to keep the art alive! " go for it" and try some of the stuff you see then post back results if you can it will help out folk like me that need help!!


----------



## Jisp

SJJ, this is a swweeet thread man! Bursting at the seams with inspiration. Thank you.

Joe, sent you a message. 

Cheers guys,
Michael. :thumbsup:


----------



## Bill Hall

Contact Partspig for the screws and motor. Last I heard Dennis was bringing in enough to meet our needs. The screws wont be near as ugly as these used units from my box of many tiny screws. (1.4 x .3)...? I think.










*******************

Joe,

That "nicely cut" bulkhead was gacked out with tin snips after scribing the dimensions. I cut EVERYTHING fat then rough sand (dremel) and finally hand file and sand to the exact shape. The point being that I try and keep the precision work in the domain of the hand file because it is very easy to control and gives you pinpoint accuracy. Other than polishing or lopping off a large chunk of excess; I never put the dremel to the workpiece unless there is no better option.

The axle box/motor mount assemblies get easier after you learn to let go a bit. I also over thought them to the point of mentally locking up. Now that I've gone tubular, I've learned that the arm shaft and the rear axle journals are the only points in space you need worry about. Bottom line is that I just poke a hole in a chunk of brass and call that center. I dont make the motor fit the brass, I make the brass fit the motor. Then I simply plot the axle journal(s) location on a horizontal plane from the arm shaft center using a small square. 

It's important not to go overboard. IMHO theres much to do over micrometer measuring and hyper engineering. I certainly understand and respect the need, but taking that mentality and actually putting into practice at the scale we are working with is easier said than done. I'm a big fan of leaving enough wiggle so that one can work around the inevitable mistakes and glitches. For calculations, I seldom use anything more than a pocket rule, a depth square, and a set of small dividers....oh and my eye-chrometer....squint one eye closed, hang tongue out to the side and repeat after me, "Yeah, dats about right" "Dont tell NASA" . Very easy to calibrate. Always trust your eye.


----------



## sidejobjon

Joe,
The most popular screw size i use seams to be .80 this is same as old AJ treaded axles were & aluminum rims. Also this was the size for TCP pans & also there screws,& guild pins. Get your self a .80 Tap, And some drill bits # 56 = .046 .Get all kinds .80 screws Hex head, Flat head , round head ECT & assorted lenths. And start bolting everything togeather Motors, Weights, body mounts ECT.
Hope this Helps
SJJ


----------



## joegri

many thanx for the intel for the tiny motor screws fellas!i do have some of the 080 screws that i didnt try one yet.but judging by eye they may be too big. just guessing.and a pm is in order for pp.i wish i had a lil more time to play this week but work and yard work is taking any time i have at this moment! jisp had a good idea with the eyeglass repair kit too!! thanx again all !!


----------



## joegri

*landshark kits*

its not a scratch built, but its a brass slot car kit. i assembled this lastnite in a few hours and i,m bettin it,ll go!got a big block motor for starters then maybe a mini motor in the next one. this has been a gas to put together and hoping for the best performance you can get out of this style slotcar.i just wished a hard body would fit over the wings,sides.i know lexans are the classic style but a hard bodywould be cool too. i can only say is"you should try this type of building its really fun"


----------



## ruralradio

Looks good, Joe, nice clean solder job. I'll donate a lexan bod if you need, you'll just have to paint and mount.


----------



## Bill Hall

Go Joe go!


----------



## WesJY

Go Joe GO GO !! 

Wes


----------



## sidejobjon

*F1 build*

Here`s some bodies i had noose paint for the F1 builds. I did take some parade laps with one Chassis.
SJJ


----------



## joegri

thanx for the encouragement fellas. this kit is fun and easy. now i just gotta get a gear order together i,m thinkin bsrt gears. rural thanx for the offer of a lexan body. i already have 3 or 4 in stock! but i also have a concern about the rear tire size seems they are going to be in the 475 area in order to clear the rails just guessing at this point. and wow sjj those noose lexans are nice!


----------



## ruralradio

I think I have .460's on mine, Joe. I'll check when I get down to the shop later tonight.


----------



## sidejobjon

htm
Joe" Tabacomary"
Made me some silicones for my vintage TCP rims. They are great because the nut is on the inside so tire can be like a steam roller.
Thanks Joe
Sjj


----------



## sidejobjon

*TCP silicone`s*

Here is picture. Taller on AFX TCP Chassis red car, see nut on inside?
Car leaning on set for TJET set up Joe calls them "Steamrollers"
SJJ


----------



## joegri

man that is a cool pan sjj ! and the rims/tire combo look more like a larger scale slotcar.what i like most about your slot car is it,s not tying to be anything but a full blown race ready slot car! like it lots sjj :thumbsup:


----------



## ruralradio

The latest victim.... or, what happens when you have a stack of TCP pans, a bunch of Tyco/Mattel stuff, and too much time....

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/picture.php?pictureid=3390&albumid=632&dl=1377577912&thumb=1

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/picture.php?pictureid=3389&albumid=632&dl=1377577912&thumb=1

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/picture.php?pictureid=3388&albumid=632&dl=1377577912&thumb=1

P.S.- posted larger pics in the photo album section.


----------



## joegri

that is one fresh chassis there rural ! seems to me it has been liberated and brought back to earth with that pan set up. just turned some laps with my pan chassis yesterday and i forgot how nice they go round the trak. is that chassis build on the landshark/lifelke type? or should i say is there enough magnatism there to maker 'er stick? nice job rural way to think out of the box! also will a hard body fit that chassis? :thumbsup:


----------



## ruralradio

Built gravity unlimited style, Joe, no traction magnets, motor magnets have been cut down with non-magnetic spacers added underneath, can't pick up the lift pin, you know! Car will have a lexan body, very few hard bodies out of this shop.


----------



## sidejobjon

Photo bucket practic


----------



## sidejobjon

http://i1031.photobucket.com/albums/y373/jfalzarano/projects002_zps
037f478c.jpg
Got this from local BMW dealer.1/64 proto type.
Pictures are not clear but i like the way it fit & clear glass above.
Chappy just walked me though Photo bucket so i could post picturesagain
SJJ


----------



## chappy2

Nice lookin conversion John!


----------



## sidejobjon

*Parma House Chassis*


I been looking for the Catalog for this Chassis. From Parma mid 70`s Made by the racers at Parma store in Ohio , Sold at store?
Sorry for double posting, would like a Copy
Thanks SJJ


----------



## ruralradio

Hey Jon, pull the chassis out of the box for more pics, top, side and bottom. Thanks!


----------



## chappy2

John, that is a beauty! More pics would be awesome.

Rob


----------



## joegri

*sjj,s time machine*

i keep going back to look at this gem.check out the rear rim/tire combo..nice n fat! and that end bell looks to be a custom type? it looks simple enough but,in reality a master craftsman built that baby! i,ll bet on a nice routed trak you could have a big scale experience with lots of laughs.this is where a chappy tube bending jig would make this a fun build also the chappy braid holder would make it way better than that tyco holder. and there is a good chance that you would hardly ever run a store bought chassis.."jus sayin". sjj when you get time plz post more pics of that dream boat.this has my attention:thumbsup:thanx for posting!


----------



## gonegonzo

I see some real arm chair engineering going on here . Is ther a movement brewing to create the Hobby Talk brass cars .

I'll keep looking with interest .

Gonzo


----------



## sidejobjon

*Double Barrel contest*


This is for my entry in the double barrel.Finally some time with Turkey Break. Start with two TJET Chassis ,don`t get nerves the were in junk pile. Cut them to swicth magnets to sides.
SJJ


----------



## sidejobjon

Rough cut, now want to make like a ship lap joint so Chassis nice & firm & dont need much Epoxe.


----------



## sidejobjon

File here sand there epoxe, make sure top plate snaps right in.
Hope you like SJJ


----------



## chappy2

A good teaser John, lookin foreword to the next post to see where you are going with it!


----------



## sidejobjon

Then i sanded & got ready for paint shop.


----------



## sidejobjon

Well it looked so petty ,I though i would throw in a Yellow Jacket Performance Arm, Thanks Jim.
SJJ


----------



## sidejobjon

Some Super Two Maganets & almost two months left to finish.
Hope i did not bore you guys but i had a great time.
SJJ


----------



## Marty

What is the advantage to switching the magnets to the side?

Marty
Marysville, OH
Marty & Doc QT1270
qt1270.com


----------



## sidejobjon

Marty,
I am hoping for a vintage gravity side weight distubution . Super II, Plumer action ,ECT
SJJ


----------



## sidejobjon

chappy2 said:


> A good teaser John, lookin foreword to the next post to see where you are going with it!


Rob,
Well were i am trying to go with, is winning your Chassis LOL.
Thanks SJJ


----------



## chappy2

John you got me, Well either way that is a great recreation of a vintage build. 
Rob


----------



## tjetsgrig

Id say you have also advanced the crap out of the timing, adding to the already advanced motor!!

JS


----------



## sidejobjon

Jim,
Maybe that explains why it needs a push start? I put your Arm in differant Chassis & It flies "REALY SWEET" Buzzes like a hornet. Maybe when someone gets chance i can use a lesson in advanced timing.
Thanks sjj


----------



## mowyang

*Let's race*



sidejobjon said:


> Marty,
> I am hoping for a vintage gravity side weight distubution . Super II, Plumer action ,ECT
> SJJ


Hey sjj, we think alike. Here's my sideways car  .










You've run into a timing issue because you've rotated the magnets 90 degrees relative to the brushes. 

Once you get your chassis sorted out we'll have to get together!

Mark O.


----------



## tjetsgrig

Ahhh, I see you have solved the timing problem Mark? How does it go??

JS


----------



## bobhch

This thread is full of information...very cool chassis building going on.

Am more of a body builder but, find this thread read by you guys 
very interesting. 

Bob...very nice work all around by lots of builders...zilla


----------



## sidejobjon

mowyang said:


> Hey sjj, we think alike. Here's my sideways car  .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You've run into a timing issue because you've rotated the magnets 90 degrees relative to the brushes.
> 
> Once you get your chassis sorted out we'll have to get together!
> 
> Mark O.


Mark,
Looks like we cut Chassis in exact place.Great minds think alike. LOL
I like your brush cups, right on the pickup. Hows it run?
Also why with three poles the 90 degrees is so affected? I was telling Chappy in a email it was going well then when i started to tune was having trouble. I have to spin by hand to getter going. I was thinking was binding on the paint.
Good thing still two months.
Thanks SJJ


----------



## joegri

those chassis look to be a lota fun to build. hope you can work out the timing situation. if i dig around a lil i bet i have a few more yellow jacket motors that i,ve been saving for another afx pan build. this slotcar stuff has got me spinnin out! keep buildin fellas this is a great thread! thanx for posting yer stuff!


----------



## mowyang

joegri said:


> those chassis look to be a lota fun to build. hope you can work out the timing situation. if i dig around a lil i bet i have a few more yellow jacket motors that i,ve been saving for another afx pan build. this slotcar stuff has got me spinnin out! keep buildin fellas this is a great thread! thanx for posting yer stuff!


If I were to build another, I'd do it as an afx full pan chassis. I'd like to look at the bottom of a full pan car and see a rectangular hole with those brush cups oriented from side to side! Also, the width of the chassis lends itself to a clear plastic body. But there would still be room to build in some plumber pans alongside the magnets.

For my Fray-themed build, there aren't many resin Fray bodies that will fit over those magnets. Fray bodies that wide aren't the best handling shells out there. 

It was a fun build. Always fun to build something that makes people look twice! 

Mark


----------



## tjetsgrig

sidejobjon said:


> Mark,
> Looks like we cut Chassis in exact place.Great minds think alike. LOL
> I like your brush cups, right on the pickup. Hows it run?
> Also why with three poles the 90 degrees is so affected? I was telling Chappy in a email it was going well then when i started to tune was having trouble. I have to spin by hand to getter going. I was thinking was binding on the paint.
> Good thing still two months.
> Thanks SJJ


It your timing John, thats why you have to help it get started, it will run waaaaaay hot too!!!!

JS


----------



## brownie374

mowyang said:


> If I were to build another, I'd do it as an afx full pan chassis. I'd like to look at the bottom of a full pan car and see a rectangular hole with those brush cups oriented from side to side! Also, the width of the chassis lends itself to a clear plastic body. But there would still be room to build in some plumber pans alongside the magnets.
> 
> For my Fray-themed build, there aren't many resin Fray bodies that will fit over those magnets. Fray bodies that wide aren't the best handling shells out there.
> 
> It was a fun build. Always fun to build something that makes people look twice!
> 
> Mark


A life like body with tjet post epoxyed on might work.


----------



## chaparrAL

I made a side magnet Tjet using PC board back about 73-75 or so. It did not perform as well as the conventional configuration magnet traction car. Carl Dreher made one too and learned there was nothing to be gained.
Here is the latest LANDSHARK anglewinder


----------



## sidejobjon

tjetsgrig said:


> It your timing John, thats why you have to help it get started, it will run waaaaaay hot too!!!!
> 
> JS[/
> Jim,
> I could add brush cups, But can you Wind me a arm with the proper advance?
> So with three poles were would that be?
> Thanks SJJ
> 
> Al,
> Looks great the new Land Shark, I have several of your Chassis, All top of the line And Kits. Any of your older build kicking around for some photos???? I see you in a lot of old Model Car Magazine 's. My bucket list would be to meet a bunch of the brass crew from all over the states at Lenjet, let's plan it? Maybe when the old Car Model magazine track is done there?
> SJJ


----------



## joegri

was wondering what is going on out in the desert? that mini motor has me thinkin bout some of the posibilities.


----------



## mowyang

brownie374 said:


> A life like body with tjet post epoxyed on might work.


Thanks. I did find a Fray-style body to fit it. It's a JW Cadillac Evoq. It's *W I D E !*


----------



## mowyang

chaparrAL said:


> I made a side magnet Tjet using PC board back about 73-75 or so. It did not perform as well as the conventional configuration magnet traction car. Carl Dreher made one too and learned there was nothing to be gained.


I knew I couldn't be the only one thinking like that back in the 70's. Some time ago I ran across a picture of Carl Dreher's car on the Riggen site. A great look back in time.

It makes sense that having all of the magnets' tall mass at the sides of the chassis would have a detrimental effect compared to a low-mounted brass pan with outriggers. 

Your brass cars look great!


----------



## joegri

*heat sink questions*

what method do you guys use to keep the heat concentrated in an area to be soldered together? seems if i need to join 2 pieces together one being say piano wire and the other being some flat stock brass it takes a while for the correct melting point of the solder to get flowing. and if there were previous pieces close by it will/would desolder all that work. at the stage i,m at i,m just testing different pieces to see how they behave. just wish i could spend more time doing this stuff cuz it really is fun...but not the mistakes ugghhh. thanx for any input.


----------



## slotcarman12078

The hotter the iron the better JoeG. I imagine if you're using a good jig, most solders will be held in place. To prevent previous pieces from coming undone, alligator clips between the old and new work helps if you have the room. Sometimes I've had to redo a compound joint way too many times to get it all together, only to find it's not square and having to start the process all over again. :freak: It's the main reason I have yet to accomplish anything scratch built.


----------



## sidejobjon

*Sorry to hear*



sidejobjon said:


> Here is picture. Taller on AFX TCP Chassis red car, see nut on inside?
> Car leaning on set for TJET set up Joe calls them "Steamrollers"
> SJJ


Sorry to hear of the Passing of Tom Coyne "TCP" November 23.
My biggest Hero in the hobby Wheels, Pans, all his parts top quality. 
Prayers Go out to his Family
SJJ


----------



## ruralradio

Rest In Peace


----------



## sidejobjon

*Chappy Jigged*



joegri said:


> what method do you guys use to keep the heat concentrated in an area to be soldered together? seems if i need to join 2 pieces together one being say piano wire and the other being some flat stock brass it takes a while for the correct melting point of the solder to get flowing. and if there were previous pieces close by it will/would desolder all that work. at the stage i,m at i,m just testing different pieces to see how they behave. just wish i could spend more time doing this stuff cuz it really is fun...but not the mistakes ugghhh. thanx for any input.


Joe,
Slot car man is right Hot Iron hit a area fast, Move on . Jigs also help.
Here is one of Robs Machine shop Jigged ready for solder, I can also remove the red screws & put flat slock under & bolt down even tighter "did not so you can see Chappys Chassis". Made jigs with wood ,nails , all kinds clamps, closepins, ECT


----------



## joegri

that is very nice sjj i do have something like that in fact i have maybe 3 different types of jigs that i made and they work just ok for me. i,m thinkin i should invest in that one/type you have pictured. if there is something that makes scratch building easy that jig is it. but also for me this style of building is very hard and not very fast either. just spent an hour tryin to come up with an idea for a front end.... i gave up and came up stairs to sit in front of the pellet stove for more thought lol. i think i saw those for sale for round 50.00 bucks i,d have to shovel some drivesways for the old ladies in the hood to get enough ching for that baby!! but i gotta say this scratch building stuff is very addictive seems i spent lots of minutes through out the day thinkin bout what i,m gonna try when i get home.


----------



## slotcar58

sidejobjon said:


> Sorry to hear of the Passing of Tom Coyne "TCP" November 23.
> My biggest Hero in the hobby Wheels, Pans, all his parts top quality.
> Prayers Go out to his Family
> SJJ


I can say I knew Tom Coyne, when I raced in the 70's in MI HOPRA he was a great man! He supplied quality parts at a fair price. His tires ruled the brass car and shim car era! Softest and nicest foam tires I have ever seen! The hubs were small in diameter to act as a shock absorber for the car! His front ends were on my cars till I could not get them anymore. His front ends were similar to the the ones we run today! Rest in Peace my Friend!

Leo (RicK) Belleville


----------



## sidejobjon

Here is a picture of the new Formula K From Greg. He will be making them with a 3D printer. 1960 F1 at its finest. Cant wait Greg. He will be posting soon.
SJJ


----------



## RiderZ

Sweet.I like that.


----------



## win43

WOW that's cool


----------



## chappy2

Sweet build, for sure! Thanks for sharing John.


----------



## joegri

*3d future*

i guessin that this is our future... 3d printer chassis.that looks to be quite a car,i like it lots! chapperal mentioned he was going to start studying this type of tech. also if i jog my memory it reminds me of the old dynocharger slotcar from when i was a kid. remeber those things. that motor has me interested? seems to be a tic bigger than the mini motors.very cool sjj howz she go? thanx for the update of the k-cars:thumbsup:


----------



## bobhch

RiderZ said:


> Sweet.I like that.


True Dat!! :thumbsup::thumbsup: Bz


----------



## sidejobjon

I never seen Dynamic HO parts. Any body have any differant ones?
Thanks SJJ


----------



## joegri

same me sjj however, that looks to be a real nice attic find! that front end comboed with some of your steamroller rears would be a real classic!


----------



## Illinislotfan

A couple of cards closed on eBay last week. One of the lots looked like your photo. The other was 603 wipers with lead wires.


----------



## sidejobjon

Slot fan ,
Heres the wipers, never saw this stuff before. Only their HO Dyna- Brute.

Joe,
These are Dyna- Brute rears with the gear.
SJJ


----------



## chaparrAL

these two are undergoing testing and development by Rick Derosa.


----------



## sidejobjon

AL,
They are nice look Manufactured
What are the resistors for, how many volts you run these on?

Al
Your years of experiance shows in your builds Performance & quality.
Best Value in brass , if you don`t have any Al`s Chassis or kits put on your list. Great source for little Motors,, Brackets, Kits, or running Chassis.
SJJ


----------



## joegri

*gotta new toy*

check it out fellas got this saturday in the mail. late xmas present from the tm. its from srcgeo ho scale scratch jig.after my last attempt i was crushed with a chassis that was crookey and couldnt be straightened out. this should help alot. i mean tools will help but at somepoint i have to get better at this style of slotcar buildin. and sjj i agree with the above reply chapperal does make some great stuff/kits n rtr brass. he,s partially the reason i,m getting involved with scratch stuff. and thanx to you sjj for your help n direction where to go for this tool.now i just gotta get a lil time to figure this thing out...looks kinda simple but,i can mess up anything lol.:thumbsup:


----------



## sidejobjon

sidejobjon said:


> This is for my entry in the double barrel.Finally some time with Turkey Break. Start with two TJET Chassis ,don`t get nerves the were in junk pile. Cut them to swicth magnets to sides.
> SJJ


Bump for double Barrel
Truck Chassis Also see Page 14 of HO Scratch and 15 Step By step
SJJ


----------



## sidejobjon

*Chappy`s Chassis*

Heres a F1 Chappy Chassis I need to Mount I think this Noose 60`s F1 will do.


----------



## joegri

oh wow!!! man that is trik sjj. i,m voting for the red f1 lexan jus so you can see it down the back stretch. our man chappy can really make-up a fine chassis. sjj when she,s all put together please let us know how she gets around. glad to see a new post in the brass thread too. i did notice that there is,nt a lil diode installed was wondering what voltage are you gonna run it at? very nice man i,m gonna have to try one of the mini motors. and just for a side question my power will go down to 12 volts. is that still too much for the mini? sjj go ahead n run it like ya stole it.:thumbsup:


----------



## chaparrAL

Hey Side Job John Thanks for the kind words. 
The resistor is a choke. Either 10 or 15 ohm to settle the motor down a bit. Otherwise it will just spin the tires and over rev and blow up, or have wheelhop if you have the bite and have poor driveability.
Yes these motors can have an abundance of torque, and plenty of zip to propel these little cars down the track with great alacrity.
:thumbsup:


----------



## chaparrAL

Rod Breiwick will be racing this one heads up with Frey cars in Minnisota
Hey Chappy: Them is way cool!


----------



## sidejobjon

chaparrAL said:


> Hey Side Job John Thanks for the kind words.
> The resistor is a choke. Either 10 or 15 ohm to settle the motor down a bit. Otherwise it will just spin the tires and over rev and blow up, or have wheelhop if you have the bite and have poor driveability.
> Yes these motors can have an abundance of torque, and plenty of zip to propel these little cars down the track with great alacrity.
> :thumbsup:


Al,
If I dial down my power supply to say 7 or 8 amps , will that work ?
You built a beauty for Rod, I want one of your 70`s Tjet builds.
SJJ


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## chaparrAL

John yes you can. but then the Aurora Pancake cars are dead. 
By using a choke resistor, 10 or 15 ohm, you can keep the track power at 18 volts and all the cars can race together. 
I have some Tjets in the works.


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## K.L. VanAtta

SJJ,

Where did you get the very cool F1/Indy style bodies? I see that you mention my friend Noose in the post, does he have a secret stash? 

klv


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## sidejobjon

Al,
I just want to dial down the mini motor to 7 or 8 not to add resistor,
Thanks now I get it, if all cars have no resistor dial down if some add resistor.
PM me when Tjet ready please send fastest & best handling so I can show people in NJ what you got. You will not have to worry me racing you miles apart LOL. My bucket list for us all to meet at Len-Jet.
KLV,
They are from Formula K Cars Greg K. Noose painted for me. He put them on his site said I almost made him blind he uses no decals.
thanks SJJ


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## K.L. VanAtta

SJJ,

Noose and I have not yet gone head to head in a 1/24th Concours 'd Elegance competition, hope to someday. I have the greatest respect for Noose as a painter and racer, but, unless he has changed his ways his details and graphics are painted on the outside of the body. Great for mass production as he does.

We in Michigan and Indiana HOPRA all did our graphics on the inside of the body and by hand. We were creative too. If one of us had Coco Puffs for breakfast on Monday, a Coco Puffs sponsored Porsche 917 raced on Saturday night.

The photo is an example of Dave Pratt's and my work. Mine is the hammered Porsche 917 on the right, everything else is Dave's. There are a few decals, everything else is original graphics and script painted on the inside and backwards....klv


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## slotcar58

Keith;

Nice paint jobs! What every happened to your line of clear plastic bodies? Bob Dame has brought back several of the old K& K bodies from the early 70's.


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## joegri

*mo brass*

with all the movement with brass lately i had to jump in. i, tryin a chappy motor bracket with a landshark front pan. seems to be commin together after a bad start n had to cut it apart and start over but as of tonite and the jb weld is dryin... lookin good to me. i have a feelin this one will go good. and i,m holdin ...you guessed it a 911 porsche lexan. round here the 911 is the best body for this trak.


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## sidejobjon

KLV,
What was your Lexan bodies company name? I have some older Bodies & some recently made it to Bob Dame threw Doug Morris.
small world but I would not want to paint it.
SJJ


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## chappy2

Joe, Cool to see the jig in action! Solid lookin build you got going and I can't wait to see the finish build with the Porsche body. I was just down stairs cutting out a Lexan Porsche myself, LOL.

Rob


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## K.L. VanAtta

SJJ,...It was 1974, late at night, in my dorm room at University of Michigan, we were drinking beer, eating pizza and making HO slot car bodies when Dave Pratt, HT member "Ruralradio", and myself decided to call it *"Pizza Bodies"*. For no other reason than we didn't want to call it "mushroom bodies".

I had a personal division I used to build chassis in HO and 1/24th called *A.I.R.O* or *A*bsolutely *I*nsane *R*acing *O*rganization. I still use it today as my "Team", or if I start selling chassis' again...... 

I am purchaser and user of Host Bodies by Bob Dame and I need to get some more.

I owe Doug three painted bodies for his collection!!!!


Be Good....klv


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## joegri

*revisiting an old build*

pictured is the first scratch build that has been sitting after giving up on it. with all the brass talk i had to try n make it go better. for starters i swapped out the crown gear and i recoated so ratty burnout silifoams. but the biggest problem i believe is the guide pin placement. as it goes around the trak it seems to "trip" or "stumble" upon entry into a turn causing the rear to break loose and deslot. i know it sounds odd but i think its true.after lopping of maybe 1/4 inch off the braid holder to bring the braids closer to the front axel it got a lil better. but it still(guide pin) is still too far forward. i dont think i,ll try to move the pin cuz it,s really in there good but, do you think this is true? after looking at my landshark the pin is just a bit ahead of the axel and that handles real good. so i need yer opinion for placement. any thoughts will help on my next scratch.and after a few laps i did see i need to spin up some new foams for the rear.who knows maybe even move that nasty pin.


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## K.L. VanAtta

joegri,

I have a lot of questions about this chassis:

Are you using a soldering torch, iron, or gun?
If a soldering iron, use less solder, use more flux and heat
Are you using one of Ron's, RGeo, jigs?
If you are, try putting a piece of aluminum foil under your chassis when soldering
Why braid?
What is the material used for the braid/guide pin holder?

Most guide pin placement can be between 0.062" and 0.125" for good results, has to do with the triangle formed by the guide pin and the outer edges of the rear tires.

klv


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## Bill Hall

Sometimes there's more than one problem. Agree on the pin diameter. I'm also concerned about the location

Yer snaggen'. Think of the pin as a vertical bearing surface. I little more girth will help you glide over any irregularities in the slot. As your design is a bare bones lightweight, I'd fatten up the pin that is too narrow and catchy; and drive the chassis around to see where that puts you. If it still pushes and twitches then I'd consider moving the pin location halfway back towards the front axle from where it is. Mind you, I'm just eye-ballen from my house. 

So along with the snagging, IMHO you have also built a LOT of oversteer into this design, it's probably a real wiggler, isnt it? Notably, you have the pin waaaaaay forward of the front axle line. All things being equal, as you move the pin ahead of the front axle you increase oversteer. Pin at the axle is neutral. Pin behind the axle is understeer. Too much of either end of the range can be problematic. There's a lot more to it. Naturally some variables come into play. Overall weight distribution and pick up loading can affect handling. Available horse power can help you muscle through some of the short comings as well. Motor magnet strength can affect braking. etc etc etc.... 

The angle from the pin to the front tire contact patches is too acute. In this layout, the rear will always have to work hard to push the front through the turns. Look at what all the really successful designs share. The pin, the front axle/tire patches, and the pickups are all laid out in a unique geometric arrangement which allows them all to preform cohesively amongst themselves, AND compliment the back half of the chassis. There is a fine line between what is optimum and what you can get away with. When we exceed this geometric footprint as builders, is when the problems start.

Hope this helps Joe!


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## joegri

*talked me into it*

ok ya got me. i,m gonna move that pin rearward. thanx klv and bill h for adding some insight. let me answer klv questions first i built this maybe 3 winters ago with no plan or experience so it is very primitive. i used a 150 watt iron that got away from me when i was soldering the tongue that was to be used to hold the braid holder and guide pin. with a bit more experience and asking round most of the fellas say mo heat and mo flux!! i did,nt use a jig just some tape to hold stuff in place. the good news is i got the rgeo jig for christmas and it should help lots... i hope. i like the idea of foil underneath but, what does that do? as for braids. i think they hold up better than the bronze leafs. i get maybe 500 laps out of the bronze then a cut/split eventually appears and makes for a bad connection to the rail. besides the next trak i route will be braid. and my next move at my trak it to make 1 lane out of copper tape just for braid cars.i like the bigger scale experience too. and the braid holder is a chuck of plastic that was on the bench and i thought it would work kinda like a tyco pro set-up. all this is because i bought a riggen and it just would,nt go good. i,m very glad it did,nt cuz i like scratch building better than any type of slotcar. thats just me. i hope i can get better at it.you all agree that there is not a better feeling when something ya made goes around the trak and even better if it does it good! bill hall i,m glad to see you post back here in the scratch section...i know you got something brewing on yer bench! so in all i learned alot about guide pin placement it,s getting clearer to me now.


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## K.L. VanAtta

joegri,

In 1/24th scale racing, the shorter the length from the guide flag pivot point to the rear axle the quicker responding chassis you will have. The chassis will react quicker to sudden full power, full brake, full power, situations as in the finger and sweeper turns. A chassis that has a guide lead that is 0.25" to 0.375" longer than the a fore mentioned chassis will be a much more forgiving and smoother chassis to drive, not as quick as the former, just a little more stable.

The same thing applies to HO competition cars, the closer the guide pin is to the front axle the quicker reacting chassis you have. The farther away, to a point, the smoother handling chassis. It all depends on what you can drive.

I like a guide pin position 0.096" in front of the front axle and angled rearward by two or three degrees. I make it from 0.063" piano wire and grind it to be flat on the sides and fatter at the bottom than the top (at the bottom of the chassis). This give me a smooth, predictable car that is fast and capable of being pushed hard if needed.

Bill is correct about oversteer/understeer. I like my car to oversteer in a repeatable, predictable manner on every corner every lap.

RGeo's 1/24th jigs are one of the top three made anywhere by anybody. I think I have four or five of different types. My only compliant is the material they are made of, and it's not a problem if you have a solution. Corian tends to wick heat away from the area you are soldering at, that's why you get the bloby kind of solder joints. The solution is to prevent the heat from wicking away so quicky, this is where the aluminum foil under your work come in handy. It won't stop the heat wicking, but, it will give you that few extra seconds so that the solder can flow.

klv


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## joegri

*after some reconfiguration*

i took bill and klv,s advice and pulled the scratcher into the shop and started cutting n tearing it down...again. i cut out the braid holder and ground out the old pin. now it seemed like a new pallet . i drilled a new guide pin hole as close to the front axel and shaped a new braid holder and jb welded it on to the new shortened tongue. for the new pin i soldered in a short piece of 063 brass solid tubing. i had to let that whole set-up dry for a day and this morning it was ready for some laps. i,m so happy to report that the new and revised scratcher turned some very fine laps and the tripping is gone completely! it still does the bunny hop upon full acceleration but that can be cured with a new set of silifoams. pictured is a tyco body that will work i just have to fashion up a bracket to secure it. much thanx to bill hall and klv for yer insight and suggestions what was needed to be done. as with all my builds it will be parked at ghetto speed and beg for some laps. the lesson learned is the guide pin should be just ahead or just aft of the front axel to get a scratcher to get around the trak in a predictable manner.


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## sidejobjon

Joe,
Glad your getting some Qaulity build time in. looks great. The Chappy bracket helps keep it square.
SJJ


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## joegri

sjj thanx for the reply . the only reason i have time is there is,nt alot of work at this time. bummer for me. and the rear bracket is one that i made. this is the first scratcher i ever built n gave up on. now i wanted to go back n fix what i did wrong . so now i know better.:thumbsup:


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## joegri

check out the chappy/landshark hybred brass. this one is sporting the chappy motor bracket for the rear half n a landshark front half. powered by a chap 440 can coversion. this took me all winter to get motivated to finish but i did in the last few nites. i tried like 4 different rears but these worked pretty good. got about 150 laps on it and i see a few things i,d like to change. but the heavier motor bracket works real good. this could be the best set up for my trak. good speed and very predicable. this is where i mess it up. gotta put a body on it. or maybe jus run it like it is...the smooth n silent ninja chassis


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## chappy2

Oh Man Joe! Looks sharp, I got to get a Landshark to build. I agree with runin them without bodies, it is fun to watch and tune that way.
Rob


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## slotcarman12078

I'd put something sleek on it JoeG. What kind of wheelbase you looking at there?


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