# Opinions on TOS 1701 impulse exhaust



## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

I've seen white impulse exhaust (DS9) and blue impulse exhaust (ENT) (and, of course, the refit had red impulse exhaust). I'm not sure which color to light up the impulse engines on a _Constitution _class. I'd be glad to hear some opinions on the subject.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Pick what you like, go with it. They were never lit on the show, so you can't be wrong.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

I'm really open to any of them. I'd like to hear what you think would be good.


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## JGG1701 (Nov 9, 2004)

How about BLUE  ? :thumbsup:


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## Four Mad Men (Jan 26, 2004)

I concur with blue. Have a look at the Rob's Defiant renders for an example.


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## nx01Rob (Mar 1, 2005)

Funny, I wanted it to be red, to match the refit (and all other impulse drives in the future). Koji had done it blue to match the NX, and I saw the blue at the same time as the VFX Producer on this one occasion and he said keep it blue. Bottom line, since we never saw it until this episode, it's all a matter of opinion as to which one prefers.

Related, I tried to get them to make the NX-01 impulse red way back when we did the pilot, but as usual, sadly, it was all about "not being like original Trek". Cause those shows sucked, of course.


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## Griffworks (Jun 24, 2002)

I say plaid is a good color to go with. You can't go wrong with plaid. 


Seriously, tho, I'd have to go with Red. In fact, that's what I'll be using on mine whenever I get around to building them....


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## Four Mad Men (Jan 26, 2004)

I really like the blue and wish red was not used for the refit. Oh, well -- I can still dream (and light my refit blue). But, yes, either way should look fine (although blue would, of course, be finer  )


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## Lloyd Collins (Sep 25, 2004)

What about blue, then red at full impluse? 

But, I really prefer red.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Well, it will definitely be blue or red. IIRC, white was used on DS9's T&T version of the 1701 (please correct me if I'm in error). I was not really all that impressed by white as a color for impulse exhaust (no 'gravitas'). Right now I'm leaning towards red.

Thanks for the opinions! :thumbsup: (Still happy to hear any further input.  )


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## lastguardian (May 20, 2005)

Wasn't the refit impulse exhaust orange? Both the thrust chambers and the deflection crystal glowed that color when the system ignited. Or is that what you mean by red?


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Yeah, roughly speaking.


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## Ziz (Feb 22, 1999)

You could always go with red and just say that the Defiant had a different model of impulse engine, being a different ship...production line upgrades...or maybe the Defiant's engineer just ran the engines at different settings, resulting in a different color exhaust.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

^^ Good points, Ziz! I'd say the Defiant is definitely an 'improved' model in many respects closer to the refit in its finish.

I think the only problem with blue is that it is, of course, the color for the warp field projectors. Blue, however, is a lot 'hotter' color than red judging from how flames look at different temperatures.


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## JGG1701 (Nov 9, 2004)

So..........................
Have you decided Mr. PerfesserCoffee ?


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## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

Take your pick. Of the lot I just don't think the red works, and I tried varying the shade and intensity. White is serviceable although they could also look like just oversized windows. The blue isn't bad, but I think it looks a bit too contemporary Trek like, but then maybe all it needs is a slight change in shade. The yellow looks rather good I think. But in the end you have to choose what you thinks will work best on your model.


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## mikephys (Mar 16, 2005)

In physics terms, color tells you something about the temperature of the exhast plasma. The question might be: Why do the NX-01 and the TOS Defiant have higher exhaust temps than most future Starfleet impulse designs? 

Or you could go with red because that would look the best.


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## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

I know it's just "sci-fi," but I have a hard time accepting that the impulse engines are essentially reaction thrust rockets so to speak, not when accounting for how the ship has been seen in action. And how could rear facing exhaust ports drive a ship in reverse, and we've seen the ship go in reverse impulse as opposed to turning around and going forward back tthe way it came.

I have an easier time accepting the possibility that the ship's "impulse" drive is really a misnamed yet very sophisticated antigravity manipulator (in which case the impulse drive and the tractor beam are variations of gravity/antigravity manipulation). And this doesn't sound so bizarre when you consider that the ship has very selective and finely tuned gravity fields giving them Earth equivalent artifivial gravity aboard ship as well as manipulating gravity on a small scale via the hand held antigrav units we've seen used in a couple of episodes. In such a case then you could colour the impulse "exhausts" anything you like because the light is just a visual cue that the engines are in operation. Indeed, this concept rationalizes why the "exhaust" ports were always black in the series because they are simply projecting an antigravity field (or gravity field in "reverse" mode) which is essentially invisible.

Just a thought.


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## mikephys (Mar 16, 2005)

Great idea. I remember that Gene Roddenberry specifically told Matt Jefferies that he did not want exhaust of any kind coming from his ship. Maybe he had the same kind of reaction-less drive in mind.


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## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

Hmm. Maybe their thinking was: when in doubt keep it simple and don't try to explain it too much and hopefully the folks will just accept that it works.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

JGG1701 said:


> So..........................
> Have you decided Mr. PerfesserCoffee ?


Not yet. The 'hotter' plasma argument vs. the cooler red is still nagging at me. Warped's excellent montage makes the white look better than I thought. Still vacillating, I suppose. :freak:


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## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

How about white with just a twinge of yellowish shade to it? Or a twinge of bluish shade if that's your more to your liking? That would make it look somewhat like high energy in operation while avoid looking too much like oversized windows.


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## JGG1701 (Nov 9, 2004)

Hey Perfesser , E- mail me.
I got somthing that might interest you.


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## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

You're woking on a small model and so fine detail is very hard to do. But on a large model (say 1/350th--_*Sigh*_) you could possibly emulate the grill like effect seen on the TMP refit no matter what colour you choose.


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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

Just to toss another spanner in the works, the Enterprise-D's impulse engines glowed red.


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## Lloyd Collins (Sep 25, 2004)

I like Warped9's idea of white with a twinge of color. Having a solid color, just does not look right, except white.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

*Great ideas!*



Lloyd Collins said:


> I like Warped9's idea of white with a twinge of color. Having a solid color, just does not look right, except white.


I like Warped's idea, too and I agree, the solid color may not be the way to go.

I'm thinking right now about a small, bright white LED in front of a red/orange gel. It would overpower the gel in the center and radiate out with the reddish color.

BTW: Warped, in addition to other smaller model kits, this will be the impulse engine on the 1/350th Phase II which is identical to the TOS. :thumbsup:


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Warped9 said:


> Hmm. Maybe their thinking was: when in doubt keep it simple and don't try to explain it too much and hopefully the folks will just accept that it works.


I think you're right. It wasn't a typical rocket drive from the times they simply ran some fx footage backwards instead of showing the ship turn around first then apply impulse (the way real space vehicles do and the only really practical, economical way to go).


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## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

^^ And yet I can think of one instance where Kirk ordered, "Back us out. A nice straight line and don't waste any time." or words very much to that effect from "The Immunity Syndrome." and then there was some verbiage regarding reverse in "The Corbomite Maneuver" and then finally that one scene in TUC where Kirk orders, "Back off." when suddenly faced with General Chang's cloaked BoP.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Red with a white glow:
http://www.inpayne.com/models/kitbash/soryupic05.jpg

Low-powered red/white glow in a black recess effect:
http://www.inpayne.com/models/kitbash/hopepic02.jpg

Dark red at idle:
http://www.inpayne.com/models/kitbash/triumphpic-001.jpg


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## Bay7 (Nov 8, 1999)

Those images are fantastic!


Red looks best to me when you take in to account the colour scheme of the ship. Red breaks up the grey a bit IMO.

I especialy like the Low-powered red/white glow in a black recess effect.

The blue effect looked quite nice on the refit in star trek V - seemed to go well with the gleamy white hull - I never really cared for the orangey/red version it had in the first couple of movies.

Mike


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Warped9 said:


> ^^ And yet I can think of one instance where Kirk ordered, "Back us out. A nice straight line and don't waste any time." or words very much to that effect from "The Immunity Syndrome." and then there was some verbiage regarding reverse in "The Corbomite Maneuver" and then finally that one scene in TUC where Kirk orders, "Back off." when suddenly faced with General Chang's cloaked BoP.


Yeah, I think the script went along with the budgetary constraints.

I think in TUC, the maneuvering thrusters could have handled the job, if we're talking about rockets and not something more exotic as you suggested (and which would explain things a lot better :thumbsup: ).


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

John P said:


> Red with a white glow:
> http://www.inpayne.com/models/kitbash/soryupic05.jpg
> 
> Low-powered red/white glow in a black recess effect:
> ...



I think you've got something there, JohnP!


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## Lloyd Collins (Sep 25, 2004)

Beautiful ships,John! Another view of how it would look. Now more thinking.


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## mactrek (Mar 30, 2004)

*My 2 cents ...*

I'm all for "artistic license" and "artistic interpretation". And, while John P's models and pics (as always) look awesome, if you want it to be "accurate", do what the "Stones" said ... "Paint it Black!"

[Que: music]
I see the impulse ports, I want to paint them black ...
No lights were in the show, I have to paint them black[/music]

In the end though, it is your model and your choice. Given the choice of either orange/red or white/blue I'd go with the White/blue.


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

As far back as the late sixties, when I lit up the impulse engines I always used a red gel.


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## Griffworks (Jun 24, 2002)

Warped9 said:


> *>SNIPPERS!<*
> I have an easier time accepting the possibility that the ship's "impulse" drive is really a misnamed yet very sophisticated antigravity manipulator (in which case the impulse drive and the tractor beam are variations of gravity/antigravity manipulation). And this doesn't sound so bizarre when you consider that the ship has very selective and finely tuned gravity fields giving them Earth equivalent artifivial gravity aboard ship as well as manipulating gravity on a small scale via the hand held antigrav units we've seen used in a couple of episodes. In such a case then you could colour the impulse "exhausts" anything you like because the light is just a visual cue that the engines are in operation. Indeed, this concept rationalizes why the "exhaust" ports were always black in the series because they are simply projecting an antigravity field (or gravity field in "reverse" mode) which is essentially invisible.
> 
> Just a thought.


And this gravity drive propels the ship forward (or any desirable direction) in deep space while at sublight speeds how, exactly...? Even theoretically speaking, such a drive would have to have something upon which to "pursh against", would it not? 

"Reverse engines" can be attributed to maneuvering thrusters, as Perfessor Coffee already mentioned. 

My thoughts - the Impulse drive works somewhat as you mention: a subspace field is created around the ship that reduces it's mass considerably. Not a "gravity drive", but close enough for government work. Then reaction control engines (the vents, if you will) propel the ship forward as it's primary form of sublight locomotion. Any course corrections (to include reverse impulse) could simply be attributed to maneuvering thrusters and reaction control systems pushing the ship in the opposite direction.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Jeff, you don't need something to push against. I knew an engineer once who was working on a theoretical electromagnetic "gravity" drive. The idea is to create a point of gravitic attraction ahead of the ship toward which it "falls."

That moment in 6 when Kirk "backs off" - remember they're in orbit. The act of backing off ony requires a small differential in speed, and thruster would be plenty powerful enough to do what we saw. In reality to "back off" the Enterprise would apply _forward _thrust, thus speeding the ship up, thus forcing it into a higher orbit, thus requiring it to cover more distance _per _orbit, thus having the _appearance _of falling behind the Klingon ship which is now in a lower, slower orbit but covering _less distance per orbit_. Got that? Orbital dynamics confused the crap outta me too, but that's how they work!


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## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

You can either have a gravity field/point to "fall" towards or a negative gravity field/point to be pushed from--safer actually because then you'd be pushing any floating space debris or any fine matter away from you rather than drawing it towards you. Theoretically it could be like an outboard motor where the push is always behind you and follows you along so to speak. This could also allow for rapid changes in attitude when maneuvering if you can manipulate where you want the field/point. We already know the ship has fantastically sophisticated inertial systems to keep them from getting plastered against the bulkheads, and so having the ship suddenly shoved sideays in a tight arc to alter course shouldn't be a problem.


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## Griffworks (Jun 24, 2002)

John P said:


> Jeff, you don't need something to push against. I knew an engineer once who was working on a theoretical electromagnetic "gravity" drive. The idea is to create a point of gravitic attraction ahead of the ship toward which it "falls."
> *>SNIPPERINO!<*


 But that would mean you have to create some sort of gravimetric disturbance, would you not? Wouldn't that interfere w/your sensors and any physical weapons you'd fire such as a photorp? I'd think it would interfere w/your phasers, too. I'd think it would also make "running silent" - with or without a cloaking device - problematic as an enemy vessel would likely detect some sort of artificial point of gravity before your IR signature from your "engines". To move really fast at sublight, you'd have to create a very strong gravitic pull, right? Wouldn't you also attract an awful lot of debris that way? Just doesn't seem like a very efficient system of propulsion, not to mention tactically unsound if you wanted to try and sneak up on someone. 



> That moment in 6 when Kirk "backs off" - remember they're in orbit. The act of backing off ony requires a small differential in speed, and thruster would be plenty powerful enough to do what we saw. In reality to "back off" the Enterprise would apply _forward _thrust, thus speeding the ship up, thus forcing it into a higher orbit, thus requiring it to cover more distance _per _orbit, thus having the _appearance _of falling behind the Klingon ship which is now in a lower, slower orbit but covering _less distance per orbit_. Got that? Orbital dynamics confused the crap outta me too, but that's how they work!


Owwww! Stop that! You're making my head hurt, John! :drunk:


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

When the unified field theory (correct term?) is discovered or concocted, gravity may be the next plaything of the scientists. Imagine a ship that could direct the gravitational power of a black hole_ in just one direction_ (unbalanced, in other words) in a tight beam. Space might just warp around it. It would surely be capable of some fast speeds (if the gravity waves didn't destroy it).


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## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

One of the beauties of TOS was that it usually kept its sci/tech ideas somewhat vague which allowed for wonderful speculation as to how these things could function the way they do. The contemporary way of trying to sound overly precise and authentic more often comes across as utter doogy poo.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Yeah, I liked that about it, too. It also gave more emphasis to the story.


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## Lloyd Collins (Sep 25, 2004)

Wow! Model hints and science lessons. Can't get that on FOX.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

As things stand, unless someone can show me something REALLY gorgeous, I'm going with the jedi model master, John P's example--it looks really fantastic!


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## justinleighty (Jan 13, 2003)

Don't forget that the Enterprise-A was shown with bluish-white exhaust (STV) and with orange/red exhaust (STIV and VI).

Personally, I like the explanation D.C. Fontana devised: The impulse drive creates subspace "waves" moving outward from the ship, which rides the waves in whatever direction is necessary. Seems more realistic than the fusion rocket idea.


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## loneranger (Sep 5, 2002)

justinleighty said:


> Don't forget that the Enterprise-A was shown with bluish-white exhaust (STV) and with orange/red exhaust (STIV and VI).
> 
> Personally, I like the explanation D.C. Fontana devised: The impulse drive creates subspace "waves" moving outward from the ship, which rides the waves in whatever direction is necessary. Seems more realistic than the fusion rocket idea.


 In Diane Carey's novel "Final Frontier," there was an explanation of how impulse drive really worked (in the book, it was called "internally metered pulse drive," or I. M. Pulse). Basically, lasers hit a fuel tablet made of a certain element, and this resulted in a reaction creating a heavier series of elements...and the energy created by this was crushed in on itself by a field, which then resulted in "waves" of gravimetric distortion that the ship "rode." I would imagine Diane Carey got her explanation from Fontana, and fleshed it out a bit. Makes more sense than rockets or nuclear reaction engines.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Like that Fontana theory! :thumbsup:


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## justinleighty (Jan 13, 2003)

loneranger said:


> In Diane Carey's novel "Final Frontier," there was an explanation of how impulse drive really worked (in the book, it was called "internally metered pulse drive," or I. M. Pulse). Basically, lasers hit a fuel tablet made of a certain element, and this resulted in a reaction creating a heavier series of elements...and the energy created by this was crushed in on itself by a field, which then resulted in "waves" of gravimetric distortion that the ship "rode." I would imagine Diane Carey got her explanation from Fontana, and fleshed it out a bit. Makes more sense than rockets or nuclear reaction engines.


Actually, that's exactly what I was talking about (though the book didn't use the term "gravimetric" did it?). "Diane Carey" is one of D.C. Fontana's pen names. By the way, that was my favorite Trek book; loaned it out years ago and never got it back (hence the vagueness of my explanation).


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## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

justinleighty said:


> "Diane Carey" is one of D.C. Fontana's pen names.


Is this really true? And if so then I'm really puzzled. She's already got one Trek book _(Vulcan's Glory)_ published under her own name and so why would she us a pen name for another Trek book?


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## trevanian (Jan 30, 2004)

Warped9 said:


> Is this really true? And if so then I'm really puzzled. She's already got one Trek book _(Vulcan's Glory)_ published under her own name and so why would she us a pen name for another Trek book?


D C Fontana usually uses Michael Richards as a pseudonym, this other woman is a whole different writer, about 30 yrs younger than DC as I recall. Pretty sure she has done conventions as well, which would be pretty hard to do given the fact everybody knows what DC looks like (Tyler Durden effect, anyone?


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## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

^^ That makes more sense.


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## uss_columbia (Jul 15, 2003)

Griffworks said:


> "Reverse engines" can be attributed to maneuvering thrusters, as Perfessor Coffee already mentioned.


True in some cases, but there are others where it seemed pretty clear that the impulse engines were being used to drive the ship in reverse. For example (ST:TMP): "Scotty, get us back on impulse power, full reverse!"


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## spacecraft guy (Aug 16, 2003)

Pretty sure that in the novelization of ST:TMP, Gene Roddennberry wrote that the impulse engines glowed "star white" when they were engaged after clearing spacedock, which I read before I saw the movie. Probably not canon. 

I always thought that having the impulse exhaust white made more sense from a scientific standpoint - I light them white on my models. Though as the Enterprise accellerated on impulse power to warp speed, wouldn't the light you saw reflected off of it be red shifted as it went away from you?


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## trevanian (Jan 30, 2004)

Warped9 said:


> ^^ That makes more sense.


Another thing, Diane Carey's books are all superuberpatriotic from the US standpoint, something that is wholly absent from Fontana's work.


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## Lloyd Collins (Sep 25, 2004)

Canon? Ain't that on a sailing ship?


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

trevanian said:


> D C Fontana usually uses Michael Richards as a pseudonym, this other woman is a whole different writer, about 30 yrs younger than DC as I recall. Pretty sure she has done conventions as well, which would be pretty hard to do given the fact everybody knows what DC looks like (Tyler Durden effect, anyone?


Dorothy played Kramer?


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

[_click, click, click_] _There's no place like home._ _There's no place like home._[_click, click, click_]


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## Ignatz (Jun 20, 2000)

Lloyd Collins said:


> Canon? Ain't that on a sailing ship?


No. They put _cannons_ on 'dem pirate ships.


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## wpthomas (Apr 28, 2005)

trevanian said:


> Another thing, Diane Carey's books are all superuberpatriotic from the US standpoint, something that is wholly absent from Fontana's work.


And also uber-nautical ("Mr. Sulu, helm a-lee!"). Yeah, if Rodenberry objected to Nicholas Meyer as too military, Mrs. Carey would have made his head explode.

Borris Valejo put her on the cover of Dreadnaught. Definitely not D.C. Fontana!


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## justinleighty (Jan 13, 2003)

OK, my mistake. Sorry guys!


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## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

Here's another look at a TOS era impulse "exhaust" setup. The image of the ship is a cgi render by Charles Casimiro. I tweaked the image some and superimopsed it into a planetary orbit scene. I then cut the impulse exhausts from a shot of the TMP refit as seen from aft and moving away. I toned down the colour a bit to a more yellowish hue and added a bit of glow, but if you look close you can still see the neat grate effect in the exhaust ports.



By rights this still isn't quite right (and I may play with it some more) because I'd think there should be a bit of light from the impulse effect shining on the near inboard areas of the warp nacelles.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Cool look. I think the grate really helps.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

nx01Rob said:


> Funny, I wanted it to be red, to match the refit (and all other impulse drives in the future). Koji had done it blue to match the NX, and I saw the blue at the same time as the VFX Producer on this one occasion and he said keep it blue. Bottom line, since we never saw it until this episode, it's all a matter of opinion as to which one prefers.
> 
> Related, I tried to get them to make the NX-01 impulse red way back when we did the pilot, but as usual, sadly, it was all about "not being like original Trek". Cause those shows sucked, of course.


Just as you changed the phaser fire color in the alternate universe,

perhaps one could argue the color the impulse engine gives off when engaged in the alternate universe is different then the color it is when engaged in the TOS universe?


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

PerfesserCoffee said:


> I'm really open to any of them. I'd like to hear what you think would be good.


I'd go with white. Who knows if the color of the Defiant's engaged impulse drive wasn't blue instead of white _because it was in the alternate universe_?


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

The _Defiant_ was actually from _this_ universe.

I still like read impulse engines. Looks like a "hot" drive system.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

Trek Ace said:


> The _Defiant_ was actually from _this_ universe.
> 
> I still like read impulse engines. Looks like a "hot" drive system.


I didn't say it wasn't. Only that the impulse engines have only been shown engaged in the alternate universe.

My suggestion was only that perhaps the way it interacts with particles in the mirror universe could cause the exhaust to shift in color. We haven't seen it engaged in the TOS universe onscreen, so we can't say what color it would be in that one.

and actually, we all should remember the Defiant is from the universe of the original TOS authors/creators mind... 

So all of this is really just a fun "what if" exercise anyway.
It's just a TV show after all...

[ducks and covers as he runs for the exit...]


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Chuck_P.R. said:


> I didn't say it wasn't. Only that the impulse engines have only been shown engaged in the alternate universe.


I'd have to go back and watch the episode to be sure, but I was thinking DS9 showed the 1701's impulse engines as white  Or maybe that was some CGI calendar pic I'm remembering. It was oh, so long ago . . .


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

Really I would go with your personal preference, unless it was striped or something. :lol:

Red would make sense too, especially if the powers that be would have let NX-01 Rob make the NX-01 red too like the refit...

Even if the impulse engines in the DS9 episode were white in one scene that doesn't mean that it wasn't the color of the exhaust in "nuetral" or whatever. 

Would it make sense that the impulse engines would have been engaged while simply orbiting K-7?(and there is some argument that it didn't actually orbit the station. Orbiting/not orbiting, either way I doubt impulse engines would have been needed.)

Anyhow, it's all fiction, so however you would like to light it, it's really all your choice. As John P. pointed out, impulse engines were never shown lighted in TOS anyway...

I kind of think the white could be secondarily supported by the Class F shuttlecraft engines, though I have to admit that the vents were never technically identified in the series as impulse engines...


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Chuck_P.R. said:


> I kind of think the white could be secondarily supported by the Class F shuttlecraft engines . . .


Ah! You have an excellent point there! That would be a canon reference. :thumbsup:


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## Lloyd Collins (Sep 25, 2004)

I have always liked purple.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Lloyd Collins said:


> I have always liked purple.


But then we all know about you and your Barney fixation so why don't you give it a _friggin' rest_ and let the big boys have their discussion, okay?  





:jest:


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## mikephys (Mar 16, 2005)

Here is a bizzare thought. Ignore it if it's too far out in left field.
My wife buys Gillette Good News razors for me. I noticed the other day that they come with light blue, transparent covers over the blades. On one edge the transparent cover has *horizontal grill-like lines*. Some cutting and sizing with a dremel might turn them into real nice impulse engine vents. The grill work might give it some nice detail.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

PerfesserCoffee said:


> But then we all know about you and your Barney fixation so why don't you give it a _friggin' rest_ and let the big boys have their discussion, okay?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Cut Pink Lloyd a break!
Didn't you hear about that supreme court ruling?


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## Jabbs (Oct 14, 2003)

Just make sure to add the light grey rectangle around the center dot between the grills.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

mikephys said:


> Here is a bizzare thought. Ignore it if it's too far out in left field.
> My wife buys Gillette Good News razors for me. I noticed the other day that they come with light blue, transparent covers over the blades. On one edge the transparent cover has *horizontal grill-like lines*. Some cutting and sizing with a dremel might turn them into real nice impulse engine vents. The grill work might give it some nice detail.


Interesting idea! I'll have to check them out.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Chuck_P.R. said:


> Cut Pink Lloyd a break!


Oh, he knows I'm just joking. I really don't mind his Barney fixation nor his bringing up the color purple at every chance.


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## Lloyd Collins (Sep 25, 2004)

It all started with Starship Exeter's Liptor......


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Lloyd Collins said:


> It all started with Starship Exeter's Liptor......


Apparently, you also have a thing for clay!


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