# What`s the big deal about Monster Scenes????



## bizzarobrian (Oct 4, 2009)

They are uber expensive & look like McDonalds toys.I don`t get it.


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## Cro-Magnon Man (Jun 11, 2001)

I've always thought they were the poorest figure kits Aurora did too, but they were banned and withdrawn from sale in the US, they caused protest groups to picket the factory, they included torture machines as part of the series, and they mixed the theme of sex with death in an attempt at eroticism for children. Which makes them a trophy find for some collectors, even if they wouldn't be much of a challenge to build!


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

Expensive is relative, I suppose. According to Moebius the price structure is based on the anticipated number of sales. The more of an item that sells, the cheaper it is to some extent. These do have a somewhat limited appeal. But then $25 for a repop is cheap comapred to $500 for a sealed original. So, price is relative.

The originals were just given a short run of a year in the early 70s. A couple of the kits were never even finished. The whole line is pretty rare today and they are among some of the top Aurora and plastic model collectibles. The Monster Scenes were similar to the later, more popular Prehistoric Scenes. It was envisioned the two would/could be merged together too. Some of the MS figures morphed/inspired into the Monsters of the Movies line as well.

I remember seeing the cool MS boxes as a kid. I got ONE kit. I had wanted the Pendulum, but wound up with Doctor Deadly. My friend Mark had the Pendulum... THose two kits are the only ones I ever saw in person. Saw them in the store ONE time, got my one kit... Mark got his... that was it. So I always wanted the Pendulm.

THey really aren't "bad" and paint up quite nice if you are into that sort of kit/subject.


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## Cro-Magnon Man (Jun 11, 2001)

djnick66 said:


> The Monster Scenes were similar to the later, more popular Prehistoric Scenes.
> 
> Similar in what way?
> 
> ...


Really?


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## Zombie_61 (Apr 21, 2004)

bizzarobrian said:


> What`s the big deal about Monster Scenes????


You could ask this question about any line of model kits--they either appeal to you or they don't. For some modelers the Monster Scenes kits have that nostalgia factor going for them. "Yeah, they're simplified and toy-like, but I had one as a kid and I'd like to have one again." For others, I'm sure the "collector" mentality comes into play; gotta have the whole set. And others simply like the kits. The only one I could find when they were originally released was The Pendulum, so these aren't a "must have" for me. But I'm glad to see all of these old kits reissued for the modelers who _do_ want them; maybe eventually someone will get around to reissuing the kits _I_ want.


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## bizzarobrian (Oct 4, 2009)

Hobby stores can`t give them away.My local store is pissed he ordered them.They have been sitting there so long most of the packing is damaged from kids checking them out.


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## DocJam00 (May 18, 2010)

They're selling near me, at all three of the hobby stores I go to. In fact, one has sold them out just this week.

I do think the main reason I'm interested is nostalgia. I too was only able to snag a couple as a boy before they disappeared. I think I had the insect, and the victim, and maybe the cage, but I would have bought them all if they hadn't disappeared. Horror movies were a major obsession, thanks to Famous Monsters


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## TAY666 (Jan 8, 2000)

What is not to like?
They are small, so they don't take a ton of shelf space.
They have optional parts so you can do different builds.
They are easily customizable.
They can be used together to make cool little dioramas.

I'm still buying them too. I've almost got a complete set now, and intend to get multiples as I want to build them in all the various options.
Plus I need extras to go in the cage, and the pendulum, and for Franky or the Doc to carry off.

And they aren't that expensive.
Hell the Graveyard Scenes bases cost as much as one of the kits.

It all comes down to what you like.
Me, I have zero interest in building any of the original Univerasal monster models, except maybe the Creature, and that is only because I have all the original glow pieces, and I like scaley critters.
I did the MOM Frank because it was cheap and small. But I have no interest in doing any larger Franks. Will do at least a couple MS ones though.


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

They are similar in that they are the same scale, are snap together, the figures are of the same design (Cro Magnon Girl is essentially the Prehistoric "Victim") etc. The boxes for the PH scenes are similar to the MS kits, as are the instructions.


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## Roy Kirchoff (Jan 1, 1970)

djnick66 said:


> ....The Monster Scenes were similar to the later, more popular Prehistoric Scenes. It was envisioned the two would/could be merged together....


I don't know about that but here is a link to an article that ties a set of science fiction characters and a time machine that would link to the Prehistoric Scenes line that never got off the paper.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=9055

~RK~


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## Matthew Green (Nov 12, 2000)

I agree Bizarro!

I don´t get them either. Someone gave me the Hanging cage as a gift and it is AWESOME! I quickly bought the others and was like...WHAT? I thought they all would come with bases like the cage. They flat out suck! It looks like the cage has an interconnecting base but to WHAT? Certainly none in the first set. When I bought the Revell Frankenstein now HE is worth $18....These are SO small. I am not getting my money´s worth. Moebius is making tons off of these if anyone is buying them.

Also the figures look terrible. No detail etc. They DO look like Mcdonald´s toys. I was scratching my head after spending $18 bucks each for mine when I could´ve gotten fully articulated already painted Marvel Universe figures. Oh well...They are on display in my Monster Cafe. Hopefully someone will appreciate them.


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## Roy Kirchoff (Jan 1, 1970)

bizzarobrian said:


> Hobby stores can`t give them away.My local store is pissed he ordered them.They have been sitting there so long most of the packing is damaged from kids checking them out.


Maybe you should help those folks out and buy a few. There're fun to build and they make cool dioramas. Check this out!

http://www.monsterscenes.net/make_a_scene_winners.htm


~RK~


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## Ductapeforever (Mar 6, 2008)

It's a genre thing really! Some modelers don't 'get' why so many people build "Trek" kits, and they think the same way. Some people like to build certain themes and "Monster Scenes" is one of them. To each,his own!


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## Mark McGovern (Apr 25, 1999)

Matthew Green said:


> ...Also the figures look terrible. No detail etc. They DO look like Mcdonald´s toys...


Bizz and Matt,

You're right; nevertheless -

There is that undeniable nostalgia factor. I had the entire (US) line, but pitched it when we moved...been kicking myself ever since. Also, you haven't seen the Gruesome Goodies and Pain Parlor sets - they're very nice "Mad Scientist" accessories. And Vampirella is well, just very nice.

I know that a lot of builders don't want to wrestle with _any_ styrene model, because the level of detail and quality of parts fit doesn't compare to resin or vinyl kits. But I enjoy making a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Making the most of what detail there is can turn even a simple kit like a Monster Scenes figure into something special, which to me is a very big deal indeed.


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## Bwain no more (May 18, 2005)

I tend to prefer the kits I had as a kid and I am most definitely biased toward the Universal monsters. I never had ANY of the Monster Scenes kits (until Frank reissued them) and while the design is toylike, I disagree that the detail is lacking or that they are particularly expensive. I just received a test shot of the Pain Parlor kit from Dave Metzner, and it is just downright cool! On the flip side, one kit I had as a kid, but never finished (due to lack of interest) was the Forgotten Prisoner. I thought about picking one up when PL reissued them, but forty years later I STILL could not see the appeal. ALOT of people asked me about doing a replacement set to make the kit more like the box, but to be honest, I could not see risking a couple weeks salary to get parts sculpted for a kit I chose not to OWN let alone build! I can't IMAGINE risking a years salary to get a styrene follow up (eventually) produced, but as DuctTapeForever indicated, to each his own I suppose. 
Tom


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## Moebius (Mar 15, 2007)

Matthew Green said:


> I am not getting my money´s worth. Moebius is making tons off of these if anyone is buying them.


Making tons off of these? Guess again. You have no clue as to what tooling costs. As I have mentioned more than once, the cost of anything we sell has nothing to do with what's in the box, it's all in the tooling, developement and other expenses.


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## mcdougall (Oct 28, 2007)

These kits have an historic and nostalgic significance to me and I waited since the 1970s for their reappearance...I honestly thought they would never see the light of day again...Moebius and Dencomm put these out as a labor of love and I'm glad they did...so What's the Big Deal??? If you need to ask that question then you just don't 'Get It'....move on to another kit of your choice, but, please, don't harsh my mello.....
Mcdee


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## Matthew Green (Nov 12, 2000)

I live in MExico and I see hundreds of Marx plastic figures everywhere. Now they are a price of $1. They are harder plastic then the Monster scenes kits. How do they afford it if tooling is so expensive?

I hope the new Monster scenes that will be out will have big bases like the Hanging cage. That would be awesome. If it´s just stand alone pieces, I would feel a little cheated. 

What interlocks with the cage?


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## deadmanincfan (Mar 11, 2008)

mcdougall said:


> These kits have an historic and nostalgic significance to me and I waited since the 1970s for their reappearance...I honestly thought they would never see the light of day again...Moebius and Dencomm put these out as a labor of love and I'm glad they did...so What's the Big Deal??? If you need to ask that question then you just don't 'Get It'....move on to another kit of your choice, but, please, don't harsh my mello.....
> Mcdee


Or mine...I got Doc D and the Victim for my 11th b-day, so you have no idea how happy I was to see them again.


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## Auroranut (Jan 12, 2008)

If you don't get 'em, then don't get 'em!! It's as simple as that.....
Personally I remember the Aurora ones in the shops but I was into model cars by then. I'm rapt that Moebius stuck their necks out to give us these '70s classics.


Chris.


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## HabuHunter32 (Aug 22, 2009)

I never bought any of them way back in the initial Aurora release. I have bought a couple Moebius has repoped and they are not without appeal. Yes they are simple but just like anything else. It's in the eye of the beholder. To each his own.


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## Bwain no more (May 18, 2005)

I'm not an expert on tooling costs, but I'm PRETTY sure it's cheaper to use 45 year old MARX molds that someone let you have for the price of hauling them off, than it is to design, produce and test all new tooling. Plus artwork for packaging and instruction sheets,and licensing all add up. IIRC the last time the Marx Universal Monsters were released here (the LICENSED ones on blister cards from Uncle Milton) they were $5 or $6 apiece and the castings were pretty rough... 
Tom


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## Hunch (Apr 6, 2003)

Matthew wrote:
What interlocks with the cage?
Answer: The soon to be released Pain Parlor! You'll also find two more interlocking bases in the MS Ltd Line to address the problem of lacking floor space, although they are resin and pricey.









Now I'm going to go off and pretend I didn't read all this negative jive about my favorite line of kits...
Keep 'em coming Frank! It doesn't get any better than Monster Scenes!:thumbsup:


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## buzzconroy (Jun 28, 2002)

It depends how old you were at the time, my modelling faze for me was 1962-1968, 1967 I got into monogram slotcars.I was out of modeling by the time the glows and the monster scenes arrived, I was into my first car, girls, Grank funk Railroad , and partying.
So I have no interest in these kits whatsoever, I guess you had to be a kid at that time, to appreciate them.
My dinosaur craze was 1962-64, I had and loved the Marx dinosaurs, the Prehistoric scenes remind me of them.

Randy


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## Tomtom (Jun 10, 2009)

*Whats the big deal about Monster Scenes*

Being about 18 when these were around the shops,I passed on most of these for all the reasons mentioned . I did love the Pendulum as it allowed you to swing the blade,I thought it was cool,and the Hanging Cage was a fine one.
Had to have the Vampirella also!
Aurora tried-give them that ,to keep teens into models. In the 1970's any military type kits were out of fashion due to the Vietnam War. You were lucky if stores carried car models, monsters,maybe some airplanes. The late 70's were not kind-Aurora,Frog went bust,Monogram bought by Mattel,then back to Monogram,with little in the catalog in the 70's,you want to see a good idea of product-look at a 1970 catalog with maybe 50 pages for every model company,go to about 1976-how may pages now?That's if they were still here.


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## toysoldierman20 (Mar 29, 2009)

I'm writeing this for my Dad being he's pretty sick.
He says the only problem he has with these kits are their size.
He says that they just don't correspond with the other Aurora kits such as the orginal Frankenstein,Dracula,etc.
He says that when you have them together it looks like Gullivers travels!


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## Todd P. (Apr 12, 2007)

I love the Monster Scenes kits. Moebius went out on a limb to bring back these long-gone models from three decades ago and I applaud that.

Don't like them? Fine, that's obviously your privilege. They're good, steady sellers for me, although I confess my price is quite a bit below retail and so I only profit a couple of bucks off each.

One or two of you have hinted that Moebius is chiseling its customers, based on nothing except your anecdotal evidence. Ironically, one of those individuals has in the past boasted about buying goods extremely cheaply off eBay and reselling them to local children at more than 1,000 percent profit.


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## Mark McGovern (Apr 25, 1999)

toysoldierman20 said:


> I'm writeing this for my Dad being he's pretty sick.


Sorry to hear this, tsm. Hope the old man feels better soon - at least well enough to snap a Monster Scenes kit together...


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

Part of the size reduction WAS to save money. By the 70s plastic prices were going up. Even before then. Marx downsized many of their plastic toy soldiers from 60mm down to 45mm. They even had some HO sized stuff! If you compare their last set of figures, the Atronauts, to something like their Alamo originals, the size difference is quite noticable. Aurora did the same thing. They made their monsters smaller. Other toys downsized too. GI Joe and the 6 Million Dollar man were a foot or more tall. Evel Knievel, the Mego figures, etc were all around 6-7 inches high. By the late 70s when Star Wars toys came out, action figures were 3 inches tall.


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## gaz91 (Nov 26, 2007)

To me the m/s line is one of the best Aurora came up with, i love the scale of these little kits, its just sad that they pulled the plug on the org series.
Big thanks to Moebius for re-popping them :thumbsup: keep-em coming.
:wave:


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## SJF (Dec 3, 1999)

I love the Monter Scenes kits, and am very happy to see them back at more affordable prices. Keep them coming, Moebius. 

Sean


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## DocJam00 (May 18, 2010)

Tooling costs are outrageously expensive. Anybody who thinks otherwise is welcome to finance one for me....I have a few ideas


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## Matthew Green (Nov 12, 2000)

Todd P. said:


> I love the Monster Scenes kits. Moebius went out on a limb to bring back these long-gone models from three decades ago and I applaud that.
> 
> Don't like them? Fine, that's obviously your privilege. They're good, steady sellers for me, although I confess my price is quite a bit below retail and so I only profit a couple of bucks off each.
> 
> One or two of you have hinted that Moebius is chiseling its customers, based on nothing except your anecdotal evidence. Ironically, one of those individuals has in the past boasted about buying goods extremely cheaply off eBay and reselling them to local children at more than 1,000 percent profit.


Figures here are $230 pesos. I sell mine for $220 or $179.


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## Moonman27 (Aug 26, 2008)

I love the Monster Scenes. They are a good size for dioramas which I am working on now,and for the last year or so,a little work almost every night. I can fit a whole dungeon scene on just one shelf. Don't get me wrong,I like big models too,but I do have limited shelf space due to my many models and toys. I am very happy with them so far,and hope one day Moebius will reissue the VAMPIRELLA MS kit. I have originals in boxes,but am building only the reissues. MORE MONSTER SCENES!!!:thumbsup:


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

Matthew, as Moebius has pointed out...producing plastic kits isn't cheap. It's an expensive business. Considering how much these kits cost to tool up I think we're getting our money's worth.


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## Zathros (Dec 21, 2000)

Personally. I agree its basically what one likes or prefers...Myself, I could never understand why anyone would build or collect what I call "naked bimbo Kits". I love a "hot looking babe" just as much as the next guy, (and married a few as well) but Id rather have a real live one, than a model kit of her sitting on my shelf..I also detest "Large vehicle" or overly large figure kits...I think the large vehicle kits are monstrosities, and I have no room to display them to boot..yet both subjects do have a following, and I respect anyone's right to enjoy what they like..

That said, I like the MS kits...why?? I just love the nostalgia factor of any repop, as I remember what I called the "dark 80's"..when every hobby shop had nothing but Star trek and star wars, and the usual military fare...I am foremost an aurora sci fi , figure builder & collector..I do have other kits from other companies, but that is the nucleus of my collection..back in the dark 80's and early 90's,aurora kits were an ungodly fortune, and we had to deal with mail order correspondence with individual collectors, and the cut throat dealers that had prices through the ceiling..

with the advent of Polar lights, that changed drastically..they were groundbreakers and remanufactured kits that were pretty faithful to the rare and expensive originals,and very affordable...it was almost like going back in time, and pulling a classic kit off the hobby shop shelf..

with PL's temporary demise, Moebius , monarch, and now atlantis have picked it up the slack..and I think its great..

alot of auroras kits were far from "great sculpts", or totally accurate renditions of vehicles ..why do we like them??
I think at least with me, its the old "Hey ! I built that as a kid and now with being an adult, I can do it right, and not paint a figure with Gloss paints", or seams on that moonbus", etc..etc, and its a great trip back to the days when we had no responsabilities except school and chores at home..

the ms kits I think we all need to remember , were not manufactured in 1971 with adult modelers in mind...in fact, I think its safe to assume MOST if not all, of auroras kits were not made with adult modelers in mind..

I think they are cool repops of what they were meant to be for the time period they were concieved...& I have the whole set that Moebius put out..


Z


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## Jim Craig (May 18, 2010)

Bwain no more said:


> I tend to prefer the kits I had as a kid and I am most definitely biased toward the Universal monsters. I never had ANY of the Monster Scenes kits (until Frank reissued them) and while the design is toylike, I disagree that the detail is lacking or that they are particularly expensive. I just received a test shot of the Pain Parlor kit from Dave Metzner, and it is just downright cool! On the flip side, one kit I had as a kid, but never finished (due to lack of interest) was the Forgotten Prisoner. I thought about picking one up when PL reissued them, but forty years later I STILL could not see the appeal. ALOT of people asked me about doing a replacement set to make the kit more like the box, but to be honest, I could not see risking a couple weeks salary to get parts sculpted for a kit I chose not to OWN let alone build! I can't IMAGINE risking a years salary to get a styrene follow up (eventually) produced, but as DuctTapeForever indicated, to each his own I suppose.
> Tom


What color is your test shot?

Mine is 'non existent'...a new shade that is beyond clear.


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## Zathros (Dec 21, 2000)

Matthew Green said:


> I agree Bizarro!
> 
> Moebius is making tons off of these if anyone is buying them.



*If I may,let me give you a brief class in "manufacturing for retail 101":

First off, this is NOT the 1960's..production runs of these kinds of kits are nowhere near what they were then, as infinitely more kids and mostly kids were modelers..in fact, the mainstream ( military, and aircraft ) make even larger runs than this genre, therefore aside from the tooling ( which is the single biggest expense up front and usually in the thousands of dollars) , then boxart , and instruction sheets, and packaging..not to mention licensing if its a licensed subject, and then Shipping from overseas to here in the USA..with that said..the retail cost is not collected by the kit company , except in the case if they sell in their webstores..and webstores are not enough to recoup all the capital that was put into the kit..the vast majority of these kits are sold directly to distributors at wholesale price... and thats a good thing for the consumer, because most of the time, its a few bucks below MSRP and most kits need a second run, hopefully to draw a profit, as the first run usually recoups the initial investment, and perhaps a tiny bit more..

Frank, Tom lowe, and the new boys at atlantis deserve a hefty thanks of appreciation, as most kits are a gamble, as if they dont sell as anticipated, its a loss...even if they break even...thats not what it is about...no matter how much this is a hobby...to any kit company its a business...and its about making a profit...

I wouldn't say any company is "making a ton of money" unless I knew something about the business....and in this case I do know something about the business, as I have experience in it..I can assure you no "tons of money" are being made in the repop field...
money ??sure...but its all a cautiously optimistic gamble..and sooner or later...a loss can happen..

Z


*


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## TAY666 (Jan 8, 2000)

toysoldierman20 said:


> I'm writeing this for my Dad being he's pretty sick.
> He says the only problem he has with these kits are their size.
> He says that they just don't correspond with the other Aurora kits such as the orginal Frankenstein,Dracula,etc.
> He says that when you have them together it looks like Gullivers travels!


Actually, they go just fine with the MOTM kits, most of the Comic Scenes, Prehistoric Scenes.


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## spock62 (Aug 13, 2003)

So, some people think $18 to $25 is too much for the MS kits? Really? Ever check out prices for the original Aurora versions on ebay? The kits typically go for $300 to $500 for a good condition, unbuilt kit. Less if their already built/painted, but still more the the Moebius kits. Check it out:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-1971-Ha...tem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5ad89b857c

This is for the Vampirella kit, not released by Moebius, but you get the idea:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Original-Aurora...tem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5ad40bc03e

All kits today are expensive compared to the "glory" days back in the '60's/'70's. I remember 1/25 car kits going for $1-$2 back then, now the same kit will cost you $15-$18. Thats what a little thing called inflation can do to retail prices! To suggest that Moebius is trying to rip us off is silly. Zathros explained it well.

At any rate, the Moebius re-releases are a steal compared to ebay prices! Personally, I'm thrilled that Moebius chose to release this kits.


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## Zathros (Dec 21, 2000)

*I'm thrilled when anymodel kit company re-issues a classic kit or repops one...

I remember very well, early in 2001-2002,when so many kit company "execs" would roll thier eyes when a kit like big frankie, or a classic Aurora kit would be asked to redo.thier quote was :" do you have any idea what 
the tooling cost would be??..not worth it..no way....now a MIB big frankie was going for $3000 or therabouts at the time...I remember specifically saying that I dont think many hobbyists would scoff at a repop of big frankie selling for $80-100 dollars...the R & D exec of course, disagreed with me...so that company didnt step up to the plate...but Frank at moebius did...and it retailed for exactly the amount I made an educated guess at..and it sold...same thing with the voyager....thier quote: "NO mass appeal"...none of these kits have "mass appeal"..but again, Frank put it out...and it sold pretty much what was expected, and it sold at a reasonable price..* 

*The point I am am making is that its a real miracle that any of these kits have been re-issued, or repopped, as most companies feel its a gamble, except for moebius..and the prices most of the time in my opinion, are MORE than fair, and that's why its so necessary for we classic kit collectors to support them, so more kits will be produced of the subjects we like, instead of complaining about price......the only other recourse if anyone wanted a classic kit before it was repopped was to go out and buy one at collector price, and then if you decided to build it, you lost every penny of the collector price..I for one, didn't always buy a classic kit just to stare at the unbuilt parts and salivate over the instruction sheet...

Sure, you may remember when the moonbus sold for $2.50..but now remember what a new car sold for in 1969, and how much your fathers salary was...its all relative..

in 1961, the frankenstien Mold tooling cost was $6,100.00...its almost triple that cost now....or therabouts, I can assure you...how many modelers would take a gamble and cash in thier 401k accounts and invest $18,000 dollars to try to produce one of these kits, in the hopes that it would sell??...Id say very few..if any.. and thats not counting the cost of the pattern...compare what 6,100.00
would be by todays monetary market....and thats only the mold..without the licensing fee, or the unit price per piece shot out of the mold..its also important to remember in the case of a licensed kit, that every kit sold has to pay a royalty fee per kit...as well as the original licensing fee..even in the 1960's...

*

*so anyone that likes this genre and is a classic collector , that actually complains about the price, should be damn glad the kits are available again...and they have no idea what it entails from start to finish to put one of these kits back on the market...I say : dont like the price?? then "dont buy it"..but remember, if you dont support the company providing you like the subjects, dont be too hopeful that your "grail kit" one day may be re-issued...or that these companies will continue in business. with these subjects..then in that case, I hope you will enjoy more issues of cars, tanks, further military subjects and other mainstream kits.*

*Z*


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## mcdougall (Oct 28, 2007)

Zathros said:


> *I'm thrilled when anymodel kit company re-issues a classic kit or repops one...
> 
> I remember very well..when so many kit company "execs" would roll thier eyes when a kit like big frankie, or a classic Aurora kit would be asked to redo.thier quote was :" do you have any idea what
> the tooling cost would be??..not worth it..no way....now a MIB big frankie was going for $3000 or therabouts...I remember specifically saying that I dont think many hobbyists would scoff at a repop of big frankie selling for $80-100 dollars...the R & D exec of course, disagreed with me...so that company didnt step up to the plate...but Frank at moebius did...and it retailed for exactly the amount I made an educated guess at..and it sold...same thing with the voyager....thier quote: "NO mass appeal"...none of these kits have "mass appeal"..but again, Frank put it out...and it sold pretty much what was expected, and it sold at a reasonable price..*
> ...


Ditto all of the above:thumbsup:
Mcdee


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## TAY666 (Jan 8, 2000)

Zathros said:


> thier quote: "NO mass appeal"...none of these kits have "mass appeal"..but again, Frank put it out...


They were right, and still are.
These kits don't have mass appeal.

The difference is Frank's business structure.
He is making kits that are targeted to a smaller audience, and are priced accordingly.
His company is small enough to get by on getting a bit more per kit on fewer kits to cover the costs.

The other companies are not designed to be able to opperate that way.
They are larger, have more overhead, and need to move tens of thousands of units in order for it to be worth their while. And that is usually with existing molds. Which is why they take very few chances with new tooling.

Big Frankie is a prime example. I don't know how many were made, but I doubt very much that it got close to 10,000. Which is why it cost so much. The tooling costs had to be covered on fewer units. I hope Frank sold enough to make a little money on the product.
Because I know distributors have been cutting their prices trying to move inventory on them.


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## rkoenn (Dec 18, 2007)

I was in CultTVMan's chat room one Friday evening and the discussion went off in this direction. Steve said pretty much what you said Tay666. Production runs on kits from Moebius are relatively small and therefor you see the prices and availability that you do. Higher pricing and you only find them at hobby shops and online. I remember when I was a kid and I picked up models at Grants, Woolworths, Eckerd Drugs, big department stores, and of course hobby shops. Today you don't find models on the shelves except as I mentioned above. More than likely it is that kids these days don't build them much anymore and the guys, like the bunch of us here, know where to find them. And we don't mind paying more money for the model that a gigantic production run would sell for. It is just nice that guys like Frank and Scott did it partly due to personal interest. And also that the bigger companies can make enough money on it to still do it as well.


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## Moebius (Mar 15, 2007)

TAY666 said:


> Big Frankie is a prime example. I don't know how many were made, but I doubt very much that it got close to 10,000.


Not even half that were made, and of that not all have been sold. When you add tooling costs, assorted overheard like insurance, licensing, packaging (which I can assure you was about 40% of our cost of the kit) and on and on, it's no huge money maker. But from what I understand a lot of people were pretty happy with it. Not everyone, but we do realize we'll never make everyone happy!


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## Roy Kirchoff (Jan 1, 1970)

I'm Happy! :hat: 

~RK~


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## Jimmy B (Apr 19, 2000)

Like the man said - what's not to like?


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## Zathros (Dec 21, 2000)

TAY666 said:


> They were right, and still are.
> These kits don't have mass appeal.
> 
> The difference is Frank's business structure.
> ...


*
I don't agree that they were right at all about thier definition of " no mass appeal", and I will explain why..


**Almost none of the kits repopped by Pl ever had mass appeal then, or even now...that was the point then that I made..In fact, as an example, more Big frankie kits would have sold then than now as there were more classic kit collectors , as generations change....the point is that the "no mass appeal " was grossly incorrect, since all these kits are from specific classic subjects of much earlier periods in sci fi,& supertheros, and many young people , as well as the general public never heard of most of them, aside of the superheroes..

If it really was a case of "no mass appeal"..then virtually ALL of the kits put out by polar lights ( such as dick tracy and dick tracys space coupe, the LIS kits, spindrift, etc..would have never come out as re-issues , as NONE of them again, would have sold to a widespread demographic..
..and the fact that big frankie, and the voyager, sold as re-releases NOW...8 years later ..proves my point.I use those kits as examples..anyone that would re-issue a model kit of a "lost in space" or classic TV series from 40 years ago ( with the exception of Star trek kits since that is a unique saga) expecting "mass appeal" are taking one hell of a dice roll...it doesnt take a rhodes scholar to come to that conclusion...instead of seeing "dollar commision signs"..the key was to put out smaller runs...rather than thinking chains stores like Toys R us are going to buy 20,000 pieces of any 40 year old subject classic kit, other than star trek..

Back in the heyday of aurora kits, the production runs started at 60,000 pieces and UP...The classic batmobile had 1,000,000 pre orders in 1966...there were no cellphones, x box, or cable TV, not to mention computers..

Polar lights ran 2 runs of 15,000 at a shot, in the beginning ..I always though that was a bit high since this is more for an adult market, and most of them sold...what more could any company in this field expect from such a limited market????and many of them you can get on E-bay for as low as as $2.99 in the case of the monsters on hot rods...(Gee..I wonder how much "mass appeal" they had that they were repopped??)


that said....

PL or anyone else back in 2001-2002..could have put out the big Frankie MUCH cheaper than now, the tooling cost was lower and with more kits made, less cost per unit...

Frank..is to be applauded...he put out less, paid more, and it still was a reasonable success..it would have been a bigger success if it was put out then...and if the powers then only realized that there is NEVER any "mass appeal" for any classic aurora kit...its a niche market and always will be..if they wanted TRUE "mass appeal"..in my opinion, they should have gone into another business...like computers or cellphones..

Z




*


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## deadmanincfan (Mar 11, 2008)

My 2-cents' worth...I feel I get my money's worth from every Moebius kit I purchase. I've never had issues with the MSRP on them. 'Nuff said.


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## otto (Jan 1, 1970)

deadmanincfan said:


> My 2-cents' worth...I feel I get my money's worth from every Moebius kit I purchase. I've never had issues with the MSRP on them. 'Nuff said.


Ditto here!


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## Mark McGovern (Apr 25, 1999)

I'll go ya one better. I got my Gigantic Frankenstein for my 10th birthday, back in 1965 (I hope you appreciate the sacrifice I'm making here, Frank ). At that time, it cost an astronomical - for a kid who was getting 50 cents a week for allowance - $4.98, so I was *REALLY* happy to unwrap Big Frankie! He came with four colors of paint and a little tube of glue, each of which cost 15 cents if I'd bought them separately.

Today, you can buy the same kit for twenty times the 1965 price - less if you buy from eBay or at a discount in your LHS. The costs for the paints and glue have gone up about the same. By this calculation Moebius Models has reissued Big Frankie at a price that does little more than reflect the inflation of the last 45 years. Until that happened, if you could even have found an original boxed BF, you'd have paid many times more for it than the reissue price adjusted up for inflation.

That Frank (and all the other Aurora-inspired manufacturers) can reissue these models, however limited their appeal may be, do that with the orginal graphics, and still realize enough of a profit to make the venture worthwhile is nothing short of miraculous.


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## Matthew Green (Nov 12, 2000)

Well Kenner released Star Wars figures in 1977 at around what? $3 a piece? Then they released them in 97, 20 years later for $5 a piece. Now they are $9 a piece for a fully articulated figure that you don´t have to put together and paint etc. The Monster scenes are cheap plastic costing double the cost. Didn´t hasbro release in 97 the ORIGINAL four Star Wars figures? They weren´t 5 times the cost now were they?

You can talk tooling costs all you want. McFarlane releases stuff with MORE advanced tooling with a fraction of the cost. 

For the craptastic Dr. Deadly that comes with nothing, $18 is way too much for him. 

Heck, My frankenstein Monster Scenes came with 2 left arms. I had to glue one left arm on the right side and franky looks all weird now.


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## beck (Oct 22, 2003)

you can not compare action figure production and styrene kit production . 
it's apples and brussel sprouts as far as the difference . 
and as far as yer Franky's arm problem , ya know Moebius has a good rep with customer service:thumbsup: . all ya gotta do is call 'em and they'll probably send ya the replacement parts . 
i was missing the elastic cord in my Big Franky and they sent me one right out . 
hb


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## Moebius (Mar 15, 2007)

Matthew Green said:


> Well Kenner released Star Wars figures in 1977 at around what? $3 a piece? Then they released them in 97, 20 years later for $5 a piece. Now they are $9 a piece for a fully articulated figure that you don´t have to put together and paint etc. The Monster scenes are cheap plastic costing double the cost. Didn´t hasbro release in 97 the ORIGINAL four Star Wars figures? They weren´t 5 times the cost now were they?
> 
> You can talk tooling costs all you want. McFarlane releases stuff with MORE advanced tooling with a fraction of the cost.
> 
> ...



Yes, and McFarlane is in every mass market store in the world. We sell less than 1% of what they do. And tooling costs are apples and oranges. MS Frankie with 2 left arms? Yes, they all come with 2 left AND 2 right arms. If all you got was 4 left arms there is an easy solution. Let us know! And as mentioned already, the kit cost has nothing to do with the amount of plastic in the box, it is based on all the backend costs and estimated sales. You're missing where the costs come into play and why they have to be priced at what they are.


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## hedorah59 (Nov 24, 2008)

Moebius said:


> But from what I understand a lot of people were pretty happy with it. Not everyone, but we do realize we'll never make everyone happy!


I am definitely happy with Big Franky :thumbsup: I've got 5 of them now, maybe one of these days I will actually build one :freak:


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## harrier1961 (Jun 18, 2009)

Don't mess with the Monster Scenes!
They are awesome for us old folks that want to relive their childhood.
I had all of the U.S. ones when they first came out and have wished that I still had them over the years.

I was extremely happy when Moebius released them and cannot wait for the next two kits.
Yeah!!!

Andy
:tongue::tongue:


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

Matthew Green said:


> Well Kenner released Star Wars figures in 1977 at around what? $3 a piece? Then they released them in 97, 20 years later for $5 a piece. Now they are $9 a piece for a fully articulated figure that you don´t have to put together and paint etc. The Monster scenes are cheap plastic costing double the cost. Didn´t hasbro release in 97 the ORIGINAL four Star Wars figures? They weren´t 5 times the cost now were they?
> 
> You can talk tooling costs all you want. McFarlane releases stuff with MORE advanced tooling with a fraction of the cost.
> 
> ...




I might be wrong but most of those figures you're talking about are made of a vinyl type substance too which is a lot cheaper than hard plastic. That's why there's so many of those figures around and so few plastic kits.


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## rkoenn (Dec 18, 2007)

I have bought all the monster scenes kits as well and am looking forward to the new ones. As someone else said the small size doesn't take up much shelf space and they are neat anyway. Finally, the ones I have seen done by some of the excellent modelers on this site look really nice. I just have to get some time to do mine.


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## gaz91 (Nov 26, 2007)

harrier1961 said:


> Don't mess with the Monster Scenes!
> They are awesome for us old folks that want to relive their childhood.
> I had all of the U.S. ones when they first came out and have wished that I still had them over the years.
> 
> ...


Totally agree with Andy, 
The M/S kits are awesome KEEP-EM coming Moebius:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## Zathros (Dec 21, 2000)

Matthew Green said:


> Well Kenner released Star Wars figures in 1977 at around what? $3 a piece? Then they released them in 97, 20 years later for $5 a piece. Now they are $9 a piece for a fully articulated figure that you don´t have to put together and paint etc. The Monster scenes are cheap plastic costing double the cost. Didn´t hasbro release in 97 the ORIGINAL four Star Wars figures? They weren´t 5 times the cost now were they?
> 
> You can talk tooling costs all you want. McFarlane releases stuff with MORE advanced tooling with a fraction of the cost.
> 
> ...


*Theres an easy fix for your disappointment with dr deadly, and the monster scenes in general...read my earlier post:

Don't buy them....and buy Mcfarlane figures instead..
it also suprises me why anyone would buy a kit, open it up, see its missing a part or has a duplicate part that wont work in finishing a kit, and not contact the manufacturer, or even go to the store where it was bought and request a replacement....

its pretty apparent that The majority of us here on this board are happy with the monster scenes re-issues...it seems you are the only one so far, that I have seen here that is not..therefore , I would say...
why put yourself though the disappointment and grief?? just move on to another kit subject....

Z
*


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## Kit (Jul 9, 2009)

Zathros said:


> *
> why put yourself though the disappointment and grief?? just move on to another kit subject....
> 
> Z
> *



I totally agree. Different strokes and all. Plenty of different subjects out there to satisfy many tastes.


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## Zathros (Dec 21, 2000)

hedorah59 said:


> I am definitely happy with Big Franky :thumbsup: I've got 5 of them now, maybe one of these days I will actually build one


*I bought 2, and am in the process of building one now..its a great kit from the period it was made in..Never had it in my youth...but I wasnt going to miss out this time!!:thumbsup:*

*some other hobby guys have asked me "whats the big deal with this big frankie kit??..its just a parody of frankenstein..why bother"??

easy answer for me, anyway:

1.for any horror or novelty aurora collector, it was the HOLY grail of all the figure kits.

2.its waaaayy cool! for the period:thumbsup::thumbsup:

Z

*


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## TAY666 (Jan 8, 2000)

Matthew Green said:


> You can talk tooling costs all you want. McFarlane releases stuff with MORE advanced tooling with a fraction of the cost.


That one is easy to explain.

HYPOTHETICAL EXAMPLE (since I don't have actual numbers for tooling costs or production runs)
If the mold costs you $50,000

McFarlane sells 100,000 figures, so only needs 50 cents per figure to cover the tooling costs.
Moebius sells 10,000 kits. They need 5 dollars a kit to cover tooling costs.

Which is why you can't compare models and toys when it comes to price.


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## Scary Terry (Jul 8, 2009)

I like the Monster Scenes and am thrilled they're being reissued by Moebius. That said, the Giant Insect kit never did anything for me, so I skipped it. But just because I don't like that particular kit, I wouldn't question why they'd reissue it -- I know it's a favorite for some. 

I'm glad they're willing to take the risk to produce ANY figure kit, whether it ends up on my "must buy" list or not. Why complain about having a CHOICE of which figure kits to buy, new or reissue, when for so many years we had nothing at all? Frankly, I'm kinda grateful when a new kit DOESN'T appeal to me -- my budget's a little tight these days, and there's not much shelf space left! 

Anyhow -- my hat's off to Moebius for doing what they do.


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## hedorah59 (Nov 24, 2008)

Well said, Terry! :thumbsup:


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## Moonman27 (Aug 26, 2008)

I agree with Scary Terry,I LOVE the Monster Scenes,and have mutiples of each....except the Giant Insect. I just never thought it went very well with the rest of the series. I am really itching to get the Pain Parlor and Gruesome Goodies. I really hope they repop Vampirella too. So far Moebius Models has made me a happy camper.:thumbsup:


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## Zathros (Dec 21, 2000)

*same with me on the giant insect...I'm not an insect fan...but I have the rest*, *and will definitely buy the gruesome goodies and pain parlour when they come out..

Z
*


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## Matthew Green (Nov 12, 2000)

Can the NEW Monster scenes come with a better platform? Something that actually matches the hanging cage? We got jipped with the others. What matches with the cage?


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## Hunch (Apr 6, 2003)

Pain Parlor. See post # 23.


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## Aurora-brat (Oct 23, 2002)

I for one LOVE the Monster Scenes! My dad did the original packaging for them and my very close friend Andy Yanchus was the project manager on that line!

Good, GOOD memories for me!


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## harrier1961 (Jun 18, 2009)

I love the giant insect. It was the first kit I bought when Moebius reissued them. Never knew about it way back when.
Now, if we only could get the jekell and hyde kit.
Or the animal pit...and dungeon.

Andy
:thumbsup:


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## Moonman27 (Aug 26, 2008)

Jipped?? That's rather harsh. I feel blessed to have the Monster Scenes. I like 90% of Moebius' kits,but I don't feel "jipped" on the ones I don't like,I just don't buy them. Back in the 80's when I bought a Lunar Models J2,and opened it to find crappy vacu-formed hulls and brittle landing gear parts....yeah,then I felt jipped.


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## Scary Terry (Jul 8, 2009)

Aurora-brat said:


> I for one LOVE the Monster Scenes! My dad did the original packaging for them and my very close friend Andy Yanchus was the project manager on that line!
> 
> Good, GOOD memories for me!


You can't leave us hanging like this -- more info, please? By packaging, do you mean the illustrations or the overall package design...? Either way, I'd like to know more about your dad and his Aurora connections.


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## Mitchellmania (Feb 14, 2002)

I think Monster Scenes is like having a mini wax museum on your shelves, and you can design it any way you want! 

I thought, "wouldn't Abbott and Costello figures this size (with Wolfman, Dracula and Woman mad scientist) be cool to re create Abbott and Costello meet Frankenstein scenes? The laboratory? the Dungeon? House of Horrors?


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## DocJam00 (May 18, 2010)

Amen. And thinking that solid plastic toys cost the same to make as a styrene plastic kit with various pieces that have to fit together perfectly betrays a lack of understanding as to how this hobby works on the manufacturing side. There are also economies of scale, which is how Aurora and the other modeling companies were able to put out so many different kits back in the fifties and sixties. Aurora had failures whenever their models didn't connect with some public fad -- so the Batmobile sold incredibly well when the show was hot, then plummeted. Big Frankie didn't sell at all. The original Aurora monsters sold well because we were getting Creature Features on TV every weekend. The fact that Moebius is scratching our nostalgic itch, and doing so with far more financial risk than Aurora ever took, is astonishing.

And Moebius, as far as I am concerned, is the finest, highest state of the art styrene kit maker of all time. I am still astonished at how beautifully made the Invisible Man kit was!

Frank, you are an amazing Santa Claus for us!

As it is, I will gladly buy anything you put out, because quality is a scarce commodity in America today.

Doc


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## Aurora-brat (Oct 23, 2002)

Scary Terry said:


> You can't leave us hanging like this -- more info, please? By packaging, do you mean the illustrations or the overall package design...? Either way, I'd like to know more about your dad and his Aurora connections.


Sorry Scary, I wasn't deliberately being cryptic about it. My dad started working at Aurora in 1970 as a package designer. He did all of the actual box design and some graphic design. The actual illustrations on kit boxes were done by freelance illustrators contracted by an outside agency. That is where he (and I) met Andy Yanchus. They worked together for the next 6 or 7 years. Towards the end of his time with Aurora, my dad was moved into R&D where he helped develop some of the toy lines. From Aurora, he went on to work at Mego Toys.

Prior to Aurora, my dad worked for Remco Toys in NJ as a package designer. I remember many trips into work with my dad at both companies. For a kid, it was as close to heaven as you could get!


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## beck (Oct 22, 2003)

Man !!!! i would love to see yer toy collection .
hb


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## Zathros (Dec 21, 2000)

harrier1961 said:


> I
> Now, if we only could get the jekell and hyde kit.
> Andy
> :thumbsup:


*according to reliable sources, Monarch has made the tooling for the motm ( or monster scenes) Jekyll and hyde, and even produced test shots...so far, they are sitting on thier hands, on these rereleases, and releasing sinbad and the ghost of castle mare first...God knows when or if they will put them out..

Z
*


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## TRENDON (May 24, 2000)

I have to admit that I haven't been here (Hobby Talk) in a couple of weeks. So, I decided to come here today to see what was new. I honestly can't believe some of the things that I'm reading. I can remember a time when the only kits that could be found in local stores were cars and thus, I quit building model kits. I'm thankful for the "Monster Scenes" and the other figure kits that are out there. I'm also very thankful for the companies that release such kits.


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## mcdougall (Oct 28, 2007)

TRENDON said:


> I have to admit that I haven't been here (Hobby Talk) in a couple of weeks. So, I decided to come here today to see what was new. I honestly can't believe some of the things that I'm reading. I can remember a time when the only kits that could be found in local stores were cars and thus, I quit building model kits. I'm thankful for the "Monster Scenes" and the other figure kits that are out there. I'm also very thankful for the companies that release such kits.


Frustrating, isn't it Trendon?...
It's obvious that the History of the Monster Scenes is unknown to some of the guys posting here.
Mcdee


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## TRENDON (May 24, 2000)

mcdougall said:


> Frustrating, isn't it Trendon?...
> It's obvious that the History of the Monster Scenes is unknown to some of the guys posting here.
> Mcdee


 
Maybe BUT I don't get that. I mean, If you're between the ages of 30 - 60 and a fan of figure kits, it would only be natural to assume that you have some sort of a love for AURORA. If that's the case, the Monster Scenes should matter somewhat, I would think. Could it be that we have younger modelers on the forum, some New Blood? If that's the case, I fully understand and I'm thankful for that too.


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## louspal (Sep 13, 2009)

TRENDON said:


> Maybe BUT I don't get that. I mean, If you're between the ages of 30 - 60 and a fan of figure kits, it would only be natural to assume that you have some sort of a love for AURORA. If that's the case, the Monster Scenes should matter somewhat, I would think. Could it be that we have younger modelers on the forum, some New Blood? If that's the case, I fully understand and I'm thankful for that too.


I have to agree with McDee and Trendon with a caveat: I resisted the MS for quite awhile because they were a little after my wonder years. I remember them on the shelves, but at the time I was really into the space/Apollo thing in the early seventies. Plus they did impress me as being rather light weight compared to the classic Aurora monsters. As an adult however, I have all of them and enjoy the quirky, nostalgic factor and the customizing possibilities of the series. Bring em on I say!


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## Matthew Green (Nov 12, 2000)

Yes Trendon I am new blood. My first model was the Monster Scenes Frankenstein in 1998. That model kit is awesome. Guess what? It didn´t cost $18. It was MUCH cheaper. Why can´t Moebius sell their kits in Toys R Us? The frankenstein kit had detail and a great base. These monster scenes cheapen out in a huge way. You cannot compare Dr. Deadly to THAT Frankenstein kit. Deadly sucks.


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## rkoenn (Dec 18, 2007)

Matthew Green said:


> Yes Trendon I am new blood. My first model was the Monster Scenes Frankenstein in 1998. That model kit is awesome. Guess what? It didn´t cost $18. It was MUCH cheaper. Why can´t Moebius sell their kits in Toys R Us? The frankenstein kit had detail and a great base. These monster scenes cheapen out in a huge way. You cannot compare Dr. Deadly to THAT Frankenstein kit. Deadly sucks.


Pricing has been discussed before on these boards. The original Aurora monsters were a buck or so and they now sell at discount for $20+. Just natural inflation to a big extent and much higher materials cost. However, all the companies are also subject to the fact that the kids building models these days are significantly less in number than when we did back in the 60s and 70s. Too many other things that are much easier to do for them to actually practice some craftsmanship. I know of almost no kids around that actually enjoy this. So the result is production runs are small, they don't get into the big stores, and the cost amortization numbers are so low the selling price ends up being relatively high. However the buyers are usually old guys who though sensitive to price aren't nearly as sensitive as the kids are. I haven't complained really at all about the prices as I am more than happy to have the chance to get these kits and the new ones again.


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## Todd P. (Apr 12, 2007)

Guys, you've explained this until you're blue in the face and Mr. Green chooses to continue shaking his head. Plainly he's not the sort who's going to say, "Oh, I get it." Why bother? Lucky for him he has other alternatives.


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## gaz91 (Nov 26, 2007)

Matthew Green said:


> Yes Trendon I am new blood. My first model was the Monster Scenes Frankenstein in 1998. That model kit is awesome. Guess what? It didn´t cost $18. It was MUCH cheaper. Why can´t Moebius sell their kits in Toys R Us? The frankenstein kit had detail and a great base. These monster scenes cheapen out in a huge way. You cannot compare Dr. Deadly to THAT Frankenstein kit. Deadly sucks.


Hold on.. Monster Scenes Frankenstein in 1998 with a great base ????,
Your thinking of a different Franky


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## Moebius (Mar 15, 2007)

Matthew Green said:


> Yes Trendon I am new blood. My first model was the Monster Scenes Frankenstein in 1998. That model kit is awesome. Guess what? It didn´t cost $18. It was MUCH cheaper. Why can´t Moebius sell their kits in Toys R Us? The frankenstein kit had detail and a great base. These monster scenes cheapen out in a huge way. You cannot compare Dr. Deadly to THAT Frankenstein kit. Deadly sucks.


MOTM Frankenstein is what was out then not MS, using EXISTING tooling not new tooling. Do me a favor and ask TRU why they don't carry our kits! Think it's up to me they don't have them? 1998, that was 12 years ago if my math is correct. What wasn't cheaper? Two years ago costs in China went up 40% over night. Figure 12 years of correction for inflation and huge increases in raw materials and tooling costs, and what do you have.... $25 and up plastic kits. Car kits were $10 back in 1998, look at them now! I guess there's really no explaining when someone isn't listening....


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## mrmurph (Nov 21, 2007)

I remember the first time I saw Monster Scenes sitting on the shelf in a department store. I'd been building figure kits since the mid-60's, had all the original Aurora monsters, all the glow kits. Aurora blew me away with this new series!

It's almost the exact feeling I get when I see Monarch or Moebius posting their latest release. 

What's the big deal about Monster Scenes? I like 'em. And I'll say again how happy I am to see so many great kits sitting on the shelves of my LHS.


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## spock62 (Aug 13, 2003)

Back around '71-'72. Me, my parents, aunt and cousin stopped in some obscure thrift store and there was a huge bin of MS kits that was part of a clearance sale. There was only one Pendulum which I really wanted, but so did my cousin. In the interest of family peace, I let my cousin have it and never saw MS kits anywhere again. Although, that day I did end up with The Hanging Cage, Pain Palor and The Victim (gee, Mom, I NEED something to put in the cage...). 

Flash forward some years later and Frank comes out with reissues of the original MS kits, including that elusive Pendulum. Plus, we're getting the last two kits that I originally had. If you asked me 5 years ago if we'd ever see some of these great Aurora kits again, I would have told you your crazy. But thanks to people like Frank, I can happily eat my words.

While I understand that newer modelers just don't get what all the fuss is about, there are plenty of new, larger, better sculpted kits out there, many of which are from Moebius. No one is forcing anyone to buy something they don't want, so what's the problem?


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## Tomtom (Jun 10, 2009)

Why pick on MS? Yes,the old Aurora figures were 1/8 scale-the new models did not fit in-but a Pendulum, Pain Palor etal. in 1/8 would be big and expensive.Aurora was trying to hold the line on the cost.
I remember the MS kits as retailing for about $1.50-2.00 depending on which kit. Okay so the space kits in 1970,I remember the Revell Saturn V was a $12.00 kit, if I remember the Revell Germany reissue was $95.00 list,and this is from an established ,but okay,overseas branch ,and before a discount.Quite a jump. 1/35 armor tanks by Tamiya were $6.00in the 70.s-how much are they today?
Relentless inflation,the oil shock of the mid 70,s and the vastly reduced production runs have played havoc with all the plastic kits.Even the catalogs were 25 cents,no plastic in those,but what is the new Revell/Monogram 2010 catalog list for? About $8.00 !


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## DocJam00 (May 18, 2010)

Matt, I have to ask, what do you do for a living? Because you seem to have no concept of how capitalism works at all...

Toys R Us doesn't carry them for the same reason they don't carry tons of other things -- only stuff that they think will sell in huge amounts will go on their shelves. Models just don't sell like they used to...

Doc


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## Mystic Colin (Mar 4, 2010)

TRENDON said:


> Maybe BUT I don't get that. I mean, If you're between the ages of 30 - 60 and a fan of figure kits, it would only be natural to assume that you have some sort of a love for AURORA. If that's the case, the Monster Scenes should matter somewhat, I would think. Could it be that we have younger modelers on the forum, some New Blood? If that's the case, I fully understand and I'm thankful for that too.


Being that the monster scenes came out 10+ years before I was even born I don't have a sense of nostalgia. Regardless I think the models are great even today and it is them that got me into the hobby. That's got to count for something right? Anyway the monster scenes are a pretty big deal for me.


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## Dr. Brad (Oct 5, 1999)

I find it interesting that the original poster hasn't responded... Kinda just threw it out there. I myself am not interested in the Monster Scenes, though I had them as a kid (which surprises me, given how conservative my parents were), but I can appreciate how much some of you like them!

I really appreciate what Frank has done for the Hobby! I am so glad to see the Moonbus out! Never thought I'd see that happen!


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## TRENDON (May 24, 2000)

Todd is right, there is *NO* need to argue the point any further.
There seems to be enough of us that *ARE* into the Monster Scenes and that will be enough keep the line moving forward.

Speaking as the guy that was asked to paint some official "*Monster Scenes*" kits for http://www.monsterscenes.net I can say that there are going to be *MORE* Monster Scenes Goodies coming in the near future. Some have been made known to the public, some have not. I can't say much more than that _(Because it's not my place and I don't even know about everything)_ but I will say,... Those who Dig the Monster Scenes will be Happy. 

What's my point?
The Monster Scenes Model Kits are *NOT* going to go away any time soon.
So, get used to them.

For news on upcoming *Monster Scenes* items, you can keep checking http://www.monsterscenes.net/

Or you can even check *MY* website from time to time for any updates. http://members.cox.net/houseofdracula/

Naturally, *Moebius* will have info on their site as well. http://www.moebiusmodels.com 

Enjoy, the Hobby.
Mike Rutherford


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## Todd P. (Apr 12, 2007)

All of us figure-kit guys ought to take a look at the Moebius forum and look at what's being discussed lately. As I write this, and aside from the seven stickied threads, the first page has only two discussions about figure kits (the Mummy and Spider-Man). The rest are about the Jupiter 2, Space Pod, Moon Bus and Galactica. All very popular subjects, all probably making more money for Frank than Monster Scenes ever will.

I'd suggest we start up a lot more threads like this ("What's so great about Universal Monsters?" "Spider-Man's pose is dull!" "Can you freaking believe he has the gall to charge that much for a kit that would have cost less just a decade ago???!!!!!") if we'd like to encourage Frank to focus entirely on other subjects.


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## Moebius (Mar 15, 2007)

Todd P. said:


> All of us figure-kit guys ought to take a look at the Moebius forum and look at what's being discussed lately. As I write this, and aside from the seven stickied threads, the first page has only two discussions about figure kits (the Mummy and Spider-Man). The rest are about the Jupiter 2, Space Pod, Moon Bus and Galactica. All very popular subjects, all probably making more money for Frank than Monster Scenes ever will.
> 
> I'd suggest we start up a lot more threads like this ("What's so great about Universal Monsters?" "Spider-Man's pose is dull!" "Can you freaking believe he has the gall to charge that much for a kit that would have cost less just a decade ago???!!!!!") if we'd like to encourage Frank focus entirely on other subjects.


Unfortunatley, Todd is correct in his thinking. So many threads and posts over at the Moebius board, and the majority is about scifi vehicles. They sell _waaayy_ better than figures. We've tried to do a little for everyone with the releases we've come out with. I know there are some sections we have done nothing for, but at some point maybe we can correct that. If this was strictly about the money, you'd never see another figure kit from us. If it was money only, the last MS kits would have never been announced.


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## Matthew Green (Nov 12, 2000)

Because the SciFi kits and car kits will be the death of the hobby for me. I hate both subjects. I LOVE Monsters but would like more for my dollar. PL Phantom? LOVE the kit. PL Micheal Myers, again...Love it. You feel like you are getting something for your money. Moebius Victim? It looks like something I would find in Mexico. They put the box art of her running in the woods. Have a treelike base for her then. Not the scrap of nothing that it came with.

The hanging cage and the victim look like they are from two different companies.

Car kits and Jupiter 2 kits suck. 

What do I do for a living?

www.monstercafesaltillo.com

Top THAT restaurant owners!


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## Auroranut (Jan 12, 2008)

Matthew, you're TOTALLY missing the point of the MS reissues!!
You obviously don't get it so if you don't like them don't buy them. No one's forcing you to...

Chris.


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## Todd P. (Apr 12, 2007)

Frank, thanks for the info. I'm glad you're continuing the series.

I'm through feeding this fire.


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## mcdougall (Oct 28, 2007)

Thank you Moebius for all the Cool kits You are giving us !
Mcdee


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## mcdougall (Oct 28, 2007)

Matthew Green said:


> . Moebius Victim? It looks like something I would find in Mexico. They put the box art of her running in the woods. Have a treelike base for her then. Not the scrap of nothing that it came with.


Matthew, do you read the other posts at all?
Do you not realize that these kits are re-popped from the Original Aurora Kits?
That this is how the Original kits were?
That THIS is what we as Aurora Collectors wanted Moebius to make for us?
The Box Art is the same as it was was 40 years ago...
The Models are the same as they were 40 years ago...
If you want to complain, you'll need a time machine and head back to the early 1970s'.....:freak:
....as for me I love them , 
....have you given any thought to decorating your restraunt with those Marx figures?
Mcdee


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## Moebius (Mar 15, 2007)

As Todd said, through feeding the fire. Not sure why these things don't get closed when they stop making sense. Not that this one ever did.....


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## Zathros (Dec 21, 2000)

*Frank, as you know, you cant please everyone...suffice to say that the majority of us love the MS kits, and many thanks for them, and I think I can speak for the majority here that we look forward to the last 2 kits this fall ...*:thumbsup:

*Z*


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## deadmanincfan (Mar 11, 2008)

Zathros said:


> *Frank, as you know, you cant please everyone...suffice to say that the majority of us love the MS kits, and many thanks for them, and I think I can speak for the majority here that we look forward to the last 2 kits this fall ...*:thumbsup:
> 
> *Z*


You said it, Z-man!!! :thumbsup:


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## Night-Owl (Mar 17, 2000)

What Zathros said!!:thumbsup:


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## Matthew Green (Nov 12, 2000)

Auroranut said:


> Matthew, you're TOTALLY missing the point of the MS reissues!!
> You obviously don't get it so if you don't like them don't buy them. No one's forcing you to...
> 
> Chris.


I didn´t know what I was getting until I opened the Box. See with MOST toys, they have pictures on the box of what the toy actually looks like or at least you can see the toy itself. All I heard was rave reviews over these monster kits. I see a store diorama and think that is what the bases will look like....Not so. Wasn´t collecting the originals in the seventies when they first came out so I had no clue what they looked like. I thought Frankenstein would be as big as the new Revell Franky. 

If I had seen pics of these before hand I don´t think I would´ve bought them.


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## MadCap Romanian (Oct 29, 2005)

I personally love the Monster Scenes kits, even though I wasn't around in the 1960's when they first came out. (I was born in 1974 and by time the 1980's hit, there were no monster kits avalible in my area, or I just didn't pay attention to them as I was building model cars, Star Trek, Star Wars and WW1 Balsa and plastic kits.) 

Anyway, I now own a hobby store in High River, Alberta, Canada called "Monster Hobbies. I try and carry the Moebius kits when I can, but I don't make enough sales (in general) to take my store to a higher point, like Mega Hobby, for example. (Problem of being in a "Bedroom Community" of Calgary.) 

Anyway, as far as the "Monster Scenes" goes, here's one I don't think Frank knows about : 


















Their my You-Tube movies about building the Monster Scenes monsters. (I filmed it about a year ago.) Unfortunatly, I'd like to continue the series, but I no longer have a camera that records in AVI format AND my computer sound card crapped out when I had to send the computer for repairs....as "mysterious" as that sounds...hmmm.... 

My good quality, $400+ stereo sound Digital camera records only in MOV files (Thanx Canon!) and they just don't seem to work on my current computer system. The other Canon camera I recorded these videos with filmed in AVI, so I don't understand why they did this one in MOV. 

Anyway, once I get these problems worked out, I'll try the series again. The models currently sit in the basement in exactly the same way I left them...unpainted and all. If I had the right equipment, I could finally paint them and build the Insect, Cage and Pendulum. 

Hmmm...maybe Frank will like the series and send me a cheap little AVI recordible Digi-cam to finish it. With 1753 views of all four of the series with @ 40 requests for me to finish it, as well as the free publicity for Moebius, I think it's a good trade-off, don't you? 

Oh well....here's to "Wishfull Thinking".

Keep up the good job Frank and give us more, More, MORE!

P.S. I wish you would ship the new Frankenstein and Mummy kits to Trost Toy and Hobby in Calgary, Alberta. They're my Moebius Wholesaller and I'd like to get some of those kits for the store, if not myself too!


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## MadCap Romanian (Oct 29, 2005)

P.S. Here's another video promoting the "Build a Monster" contest I try and run every year. 






Not enough people enter it though. In fact, I have run the contest in my community for 4 years. People bought the Luminator kits off me, but never came back to enter them for the show. It was only last year that I got some entrants, but they were all from Hobby Talk. 

(Why do I feel like I'm trying to run my hobby shop at full speed with 4 flat tires?)

Well, maybe this year I might have better luck.


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## Mark McGovern (Apr 25, 1999)

Guys,

I've read every post here and learned three things:

Matt Green does not now and never will like the Monster Scenes kits.
The majority of us did, do, and will continue to like the MS kits.
We should be more concerned about getting our entries read for Trevor's monster model contest than who does or doesn't like the MS kits.
And now I'm taking my own key and locking myself out of this thread.


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## Zathros (Dec 21, 2000)

Mark McGovern said:


> Guys,
> 
> I've read every post here and learned three things:
> Matt Green does not now and never will like the Monster Scenes kits.
> ...


*I think that sums it up pretty well, except I am surprised at how matt green would actually think that a 1/8 frankenstien would actually fit inside that small MS box???:freak:*..*nuff said for me as well..

Z
*


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## ark undertaker (Jul 2, 2009)

Mark McGovern said:


> Guys,
> 
> I've read every post here and learned three things:
> 
> ...



I absolutely agree, especially with #3. MCR's monster contest was great and you can bet that I'm getting ready for this years. 

I will only add the following and that's my thanks to Moebius for not only giving us these wonderful little styrene gems but also for the chance to be a monster kid again! That in and of itself is priceless.


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## MadCap Romanian (Oct 29, 2005)

Yes....join the contest...but this year, please buy a model from me to help cover the cost of trophies and mail-out.


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## Todd P. (Apr 12, 2007)

MadCap, tried sending you a PM but you apparently have more messages than the system can store.

Is your computer a Mac? If so, I may be able to suggest a fix for your video problem. If not, I'm out of luck.


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## MadCap Romanian (Oct 29, 2005)

She's a PC. (Piece of Crap)

I have a neighbor who is a Computer repairman who is going to have a look at it, if it ever stops raining here. 

As for the PM's, my inbox filled up a long time ago and I don't have the $50 to get the extended Hobby Talk membership. Right now you'll have to contact me at [email protected] Thanx!


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## Dr. Brad (Oct 5, 1999)

By the way, I don't want to give the impression that just because I don't buy the MS kits, I don't think they should have been made, or that I don't appreciate the skills of all you figure builders!


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## Moebius (Mar 15, 2007)

Matthew Green said:


> See with MOST toys, they have pictures on the box of what the toy actually looks like or at least you can see the toy itself.


They're not toys!



Matthew Green said:


> I see a store diorama and think that is what the bases will look like....Not so.


Then you didn't see the store diorama we sold. It only had two bases, Victim and Dr Deadly, and both were included.



Matthew Green said:


> I thought Frankenstein would be as big as the new Revell Franky.


Revell had a _new_ Franky? Must have missed that one....



Matthew Green said:


> If I had seen pics of these before hand I don´t think I would´ve bought them.


They're repops, the pictures have been out since 1972! Exactly the same as the originals!

Is there a moderator that will close this already? It's just descended to the point of no sense at all...


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## MadCap Romanian (Oct 29, 2005)

Damn...looks like Mathew Green stole my thunder with Frank.

Frank...forget what he said and have a look at my video's up above!


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## Matthew Green (Nov 12, 2000)

So Moebius....someone disagrees with your product and you want to close the thread? You don´t have to be on here. You are choosing to be on here. Because you donate here you want to squash free speech huh?

You know, I looked ALL over the box and it DOES NOT say that these kits were in the seventies. How does one know that if they weren´t living back then? Or who is a recent inductee into this hobby? I ordered mine off the internet having NO idea what the sizes of the boxes were. 

You didn´t know your competition has reissued Frankenstein? Talk about not being in the loop...:freak:

I saw THIS false advertising...http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_YGVLM2i9n...rDEfdzfsYw/s400/MonsterScenesStoreDisplay.jpg


I thought that is what the kits looked like. Looks like it comes with a huge dungeon display does it not? And look! NO WHERE does it say that they were released in the seventies. 

Even the Star Wars kits HAVE A PICTURE ON THE BOX of what the model will look like. You got the victim running in a forest and on the sides of Dr.Deadly the box art shows ALOT of things which aren´t in the box at all. Revell´s box art shows what the kit looks like inside.


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## TRENDON (May 24, 2000)

Matthew Green said:


> I didn´t know what I was getting until I opened the Box. See with MOST toys, they have pictures on the box of what the toy actually looks like or at least you can see the toy itself. All I heard was rave reviews over these monster kits. I see a store diorama and think that is what the bases will look like....Not so. Wasn´t collecting the originals in the seventies when they first came out so I had no clue what they looked like. I thought Frankenstein would be as big as the new Revell Franky.
> 
> If I had seen pics of these before hand I don´t think I would´ve bought them.


The *NEW* Revell Franky?
Oh, you mean the re-release of the Old _(Original)_ *AURORA* Frankenstein.

So, you figured that the *Monster Scenes* Frankenstein would be about as big as the original *AURORA* FRankenstien?
Gee, the *SIZE* of the *MS* Box should have told you different.


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## Zorro (Jun 22, 1999)

Some people wear ignorance like a suit of armor.


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## MadCap Romanian (Oct 29, 2005)

Actually, it's not a "False Advertisement". That model display in the picture was what the retailers got when they ordered a case (24 kits) of the Monster Scenes kits. It was intended to be shown in the window of the Hobby Shops to advertise the monsters. 

frank reprinted the original box art that was on the kits in the 1970's. That was a time before they used photographs on the box. You know...they used their imagination back then. 

The Revell Frankenstein kit you mention isn't a new kit. It's a reproduction of the Monsters Of The Movies model with a new style box. the kit came out in 1999, 11 years ago. 

I wonder what he'd think of Hawk's Silly Surfer and Wierd-oh kits?


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## spock62 (Aug 13, 2003)

TRENDON said:


> The *NEW* Revell Franky?
> Oh, you mean the re-release of the Old _(Original)_ *AURORA* Frankenstein.
> 
> So, you figured that the *Monster Scenes* Frankenstein would be about as big as the original *AURORA* FRankenstien?
> Gee, the *SIZE* of the *MS* Box should have told you different.


He probably thinks the MS box is bigger on the inside then the outside, like a TARDIS!

IMHO, Mr. Green is just trying to stir the pot. Comparing toys to model kits? Thinking a 1/8 Frankenstein kit fits in a MS box that's about 6.5" x 3.5" x 3.5" big (yes, I'm anal and measured it)? The 1/8 Franky's base alone wouldn't fit in to the MS box, let alone the rest of the kit. Come on, give me a break.

Granted, there is no indication that the kits were produced in the '70's or that the box is a copy of the originals, as are the kits themselves, but if he's THAT disappointed, couldn't he have just returned the unmade kit for a refund or for money towards another kit? Heck, I've been burned just recently, bought a Aoshima kit of the Saturn V on it's lanuch pad. Painting on the box looks great, the kit, not so much, looks like a cheap toy. But after some assembly and paint, it's not looking half bad and should make an interesting conversation piece. Point is (and others have made it) the MS kits really do come out good with a little TLC.

At any rate, seems that Mr. Green isn't listening so way bother? 

Anyway, thanks Frank for putting out the MS kits, can't wait to get my hands on the last two!


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

Mr. Green,

I can understand that you are a youngster and was not around in the 1970s, and may not have been aware of the previous existence of the Monster Scenes kits. However, the inflammatory remarks you are posting here are most disturbing.

It is well-understood in the hobby that box art does not necessarily reflect the contents or a representation of the finished kit. More mature modelers know this. Often, box art serves as an inspiration for many modelers to create their own scene that reflects the box cover, or create their own custom scene from their imagination.

In this day and age, most subjects that people are unaware of can be quickly researched with something as simple as a Google search. Even at my advanced age, it is a common practice that I use often. Just go to Google, and type in Monster Scenes, and you will find out everything you ever wanted to know about these kits: their history, selection, current releases, kit contents, etc. Once finished with your research, you can then (hopefully) make more informed decisions on purchasing the kits (or not) and put an end to this name-calling nonsense.

I'll even give you a head start:

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source...=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&fp=f6f642595e92e50c


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## AuroraFan1 (May 14, 2009)

Mr. Green,

It is " OK " that you do not like MS.

What you are seeing on the box is a faithful reproduction of the original Aurora artwork, when these were manufactured in the early seventies.

First clue was they state on the box " snap together ".

This no way resembles the recent re-release of the Aurora 1/8 scale Frankenstein by Revell.

Revell did re-pop the Aurora Monster from the Movies Frankenstein and Dracula back in 1999, and they scale out the same as the Monster Scenes kits.

Aurora released the following in their heyday:

1/8 Frankenstein ( currently release by Revell ).
Big Frankie ( Biggest styrene kit to date of Frankenstein and currently released by Moebius).
Frankensteins Flivver ( Comic Hot Rod Version of Frankenstein re-released by Polar Lights in the 90's ).
Monsters of the Movies Frankenstein ( 1/12 or 1/13 scale same size as Monster Scenes re-popped by Revell back in 1999 )
Monster Scenes Frankenstein ( The one you are discussing released by Moebius ).

There is the styrene history of the Aurora kits and Moebius has blessed us with a 1/8 scale Frankenstein from the original movie last year.

I would suggest picking up the 1/8 Moebius kit and going at it if the smaller scales do not fit!

Now for the Diorama setting for your smaller Frankie, Cult Tv Man is offering some great bases, or if your modeling skills are sharp enough, go make a cool diorama!

The latest edition of Amazing Figure Modeler is offering up the results of the Monster Scenes Contest ( our own Mark McGovern placed with his " Sister Deadly " ( kudos to Mark for a great Kit-Bash ".

Watch and learn. This is the best information I can recommend to you.
There is so many " Great Builders " on this website, and now with Moebius bringing us some great kits, you can have some fun with these!

One word of concern: Model kits are not " Action figures or toys ".
The skilled modelers on this site will take offense and find it disturbing!
So tune in to what we are doing and have some fun with it all!

It is a " Great Hobby!"


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## Capt. Krik (May 26, 2001)

I think we can all agree that you can't please everyone. If Frank can figure out how to do that he'll be able to buy and sell Bill Gates.
Monster Scenes aren't for everyone. Those of us that fondly remember their brief run in the 70's are excited to see these kits back.
True, they are far from Aurora's best sculpts, but I'm glad Frank decided to release these copies as we remember them.
I've bought all of them and don't feel the least bit cheated. Truth is these are a bargain compared to trying to find originals at collectors prices. That is providing you can even find all of them.

Frank, thank you for these and all the kits you have produced and will produce in the future.

Matthew, I hope you find some kits more to your liking. This hobby is suppose to be about having fun, not for getting frustrated.


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## mcdougall (Oct 28, 2007)

AuroraFan1 said:


> Mr. Green,
> 
> It is " OK " that you do not like MS.
> 
> ...


Vert well said :thumbsup:
Mcdee


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## MadCap Romanian (Oct 29, 2005)

I thought this thread was locked?


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## Zathros (Dec 21, 2000)

*apparently not...*
*Z*


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## MadCap Romanian (Oct 29, 2005)

Wonder why they "Un-Banned" it? I didn't think that was possible.


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## Matthew Green (Nov 12, 2000)

It is a great hobby Aurora Fan! No doubt. However there are some drawbacks for me, some of which I already mentioned. 

Cult man MAY have some great bases. But ONE base costs more than the entire line of Moebius Monster kits. Eh...Not for me. That is a ridiculous price to set.

Over a hundred dollars for a base. Heck I could tile my REAL floors of my house for that.


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

Well, you know, I guess it depends on what you spend YOUR money on. i own a shop and see people gripe about prices etc., but then they have a pocket full of lotto tickets... Now to me thats a total waste of money, yet people spend hundreds of dollars a month on them. 

It seems you are concerned mostly iwth price. This costs more than that, i could do this with the money that costs. Like anything in life, there are products that maybe just aren't meant for you. Not everyone can buy a Rolls Royce, and not everyone wants one either. But just because something is expenseive doesnt mean 1) its not good 2) it doesnt sell 3) other people want the item.


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## Todd P. (Apr 12, 2007)

Guys, here are some facts we need to accept:

1. Matthew Green does not like Monster Scenes figures.

2. Matthew Green is willing to be very insulting about it.

3. Matthew Green will not change his mind.

4. Matthew Green will not stop arguing.

5. bizzarobrian likes lighting fires.


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## Auroranut (Jan 12, 2008)

I think you've got it in one Todd!!
I'd like to know why this thread was unlocked....

Chris.


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## Zathros (Dec 21, 2000)

*The only thing I agree with Matt on is the prices of aftermarket items..it has gotten out of hand...and on that note, I suggest we wish Matt happy modeling on whatever subject he chooses to build and collect, & move on ..if I had the key, id lock this thread, & break the key off in the keyhole:freak: .

Z
*


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## Auroranut (Jan 12, 2008)

I'd then fill the lock with superglue.
This is getting beyond belief!!

Chris.


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## Todd P. (Apr 12, 2007)

Geez, I don't know why I don't stay out of this, but I keep feeling like I should speak up...

Am I missing something with the bases? I just looked at Cult's site and the most expensive base I saw was a "Castle Panels Starter Set" for $54.95. It was decently detailed and included two walls and a door.

There were various additions and other bases, all of which cost less. Some were less than $10. It would run over $100 if you bought a few, but I didn't see any single one that cost that much.

There was an incredible dungeon dio base available that probably ran over $100, but it was spectacular and also expensive to produce. I didn't see that on Cult's site but may have missed it.

Are these the bases being criticized as too expensive? They strike me as fair costs for resin enhancements to plastic kits.


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## deadmanincfan (Mar 11, 2008)

Auroranut said:


> I'd then fill the lock with superglue.
> This is getting beyond belief!!
> 
> Chris.


And weld the bloody door shut! Yeesh...


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## Matthew Green (Nov 12, 2000)

Very insulting? I haven´t cussed anyone out or called them ANY sort of names. How have I been insulting to anyone? I have said I don´t like Monster Scenes except the cage and thought resin bases were too expensive. Do you OWN a resin base company? If not then why are you SO insulted? 

Why do you guys want this locked so badly? Does the truth hurt or something? I think we are having a fine discussion. If you hate my opinions so badly, WHY do you keep responding? Why do you keep trying to censor my opinions? Because they don´t go along with what is the norm around here? So strange...

You don´t want to know what I think of Resin kits or kitbashing do you? It´s the same thing with changing any product. Using a likeness of a trademarked item and making money off of it and not sharing with the person whose likeness you are using is wrong too.

Don´t reply...Let it die if you wish.


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## Bwain no more (May 18, 2005)

Todd; I have had my hands on copies of both CTVMan's "Castle Panels" set and Jim Webb's "Parts Pit" kits and BOTH are a bargain for the price. I hope Jim reissues the Pit, because I sold them as quickly as I could get them and did NOT hold on to one for myself! I think part of the problem with add-ons is as the prices become the same (or MORE) than the kit they are designed for, sticker shock kicks in, but realistically, like with any product, prices are calculated/dictated by production costs divided by potential number of units sold. But speaking for myself (and John Apgar and Steve Iverson and Jim Webb and Rick Evans and Paul Bodensiek and Fritz Frising and if I've left ANYONE off the list I apologize) I GUARANTEE every conversation about a replacement or add-on starts with "Wouldn't it be cool if..." rather than "Do you know how much money we'll make if..." I have been fortunate to have been in the right place at the right time in terms of product availability as well as having met and/or forming excellent relationships with some of the BEST SCULPTORS OUT THERE (and it doesn't hurt that EVERY BLESSED ONE OF 'EM LOVES AURORA KITS!!!)
But like any product, add-ons are NOT for everybody; Terry Webb at AFM called me once after giving a parts set I produced a positive review, telling me he had gotten a call from someone who felt $8 for a resin mouth and nameplate was "Highway robbery!!!" BTW, the $8 INCLUDED shipping, admittedly only First Class NOT Priority, but I'm getting off track here. Anyway, I asked Terry what his caller planned to use on HIS kit (a first run of the Moebius Jekyll that had the face missing the teeth) and he told me the guy DREW the teeth on a piece of index card and glued them in place creating what the caller described as a "very realistic effect") AND at a FRACTION of the cost! This is the first time I have ever shared this story online; I have almost retired the mouthpiece molds so I'm willing to take a chance this very creative solution to a modeling obstacle will NOT impact future sales. And Fritz, if people start scanning poster art and cutting out prints of logos rather than ponying up $6 for a beautifully crafted and cast resin nameplate, I apologize in advance. 
Tom Parker
Cult of Personality Productions


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## Todd P. (Apr 12, 2007)

Never mind, I'm irritated and it shows.

Mr. Green, you've properly licensed all those trademarked Universal Studios images on your restaurant and its website, then?


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## Todd P. (Apr 12, 2007)

Thanks, Tom.


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## MadCap Romanian (Oct 29, 2005)

I'm curious as to what price Matthew Green wants to buy the kits for? What does he think they're worth?

The Monster Scenes kits I stock in my store Retail for $32 Canadian (Which would be @ $30 US.) I'm buying them for @ $18 and charging 40% more, which is a fair mark-up. 

If he bought his for $18 US, then he actually paid a good price for them.


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## Auroranut (Jan 12, 2008)

He's bloody lucky he doesn't live in Australia!! The Pendulum's $70 here....

Chris.


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## MadCap Romanian (Oct 29, 2005)

Yes...but all you Auzzies are rich!


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## Matthew Green (Nov 12, 2000)

I bought mine over Ebay for $18. I still think it´s way too much. Sorry guys. 

I wouldn´t mind if they were big like the PL Monster reissues back in the day. They are so freakin little though.

When the Pain Parlor and Gruesome Goodies come out I hope they have more stuff in them to justify MY buying them.


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## Auroranut (Jan 12, 2008)

MadCap Romanian said:


> Yes...but all you Auzzies are rich!


 I'm still waiting for the dept. of housing to find me cheap housing (I've been on the list for over 7 years!!) because a single bedroom unit's more than my disability pension!! I work on kits in my car....
I wish I was rich.....:tongue:

Chris.


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## Hunch (Apr 6, 2003)

Todd P. said:


> Never mind, I'm irritated and it shows.
> 
> Mr. Green, you've properly licensed all those trademarked Universal Studios images on your restaurant and its website, then?


:thumbsup: I was thinking the same thing Todd. People who live in glass houses and all...
And yes Matthew, The Parts Pit kit was made with permission of Dencomm the copyright holder. 
Jim Webb


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## Zathros (Dec 21, 2000)

Matthew Green said:


> I bought mine over Ebay for $18. I still think it´s way too much. Sorry guys.
> 
> I wouldn´t mind if they were big like the PL Monster reissues back in the day. They are so freakin little though.
> 
> When the Pain Parlor and Gruesome Goodies come out I hope they have more stuff in them to justify MY buying them.


*

oh no!! I sense in october, a new thread " WHATS THE BIG FUSS ABOUT GRUESOME GOODIES and the pain parlour"??

Don't look now, Matt...but the gruesome goodies and the pain parlour are going to be exactly in scale with the DR deadly and all the rest of the MS that you obviously dont like, so you are setting yourself up for a fall all over again..

I think you continuosly fail to recognize that the scale of these kits were are what they originally were when they were produced in 1971*..*this was not a new product release decision of 2010.* 

*and there are very few kits ( if any) these days that retail for 10.00

Matt..we all know you don't like this series...cut your losses and move on...thats the best advice that can be offered to you..no matter 
how long this diatribe goes on...I think its fair to assume that those of us that like the MS, are not going to agree with you.I think youve been pretty forthcoming with your opinion...we got it..what more can you say that you havent already?? ..I think its done.

a few examples: ( 0nce again...sigh) 

a decent new car was 3500.00
gasoline per gallon in 1971 was .60 cents..cigarettes were .65 cents
in the hobby world:
The moonbus Aurora kit was $2.50, LIS robot 1.00
and there wasn't a big foreign market for injection molding in China.
that was 18 years away...

Case closed

Z
*


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## Zathros (Dec 21, 2000)

Bwain no more said:


> Todd; I have had my hands on copies of both CTVMan's "Castle Panels" set and Jim Webb's "Parts Pit" kits and BOTH are a bargain for the price. I hope Jim reissues the Pit, because I sold them as quickly as I could get them and did NOT hold on to one for myself! I think part of the problem with add-ons is as the prices become the same (or MORE) than the kit they are designed for, sticker shock kicks in, but realistically, like with any product, prices are calculated/dictated by production costs divided by potential number of units sold. But speaking for myself (and John Apgar and Steve Iverson and Jim Webb and Rick Evans and Paul Bodensiek and Fritz Frising and if I've left ANYONE off the list I apologize) I GUARANTEE every conversation about a replacement or add-on starts with "Wouldn't it be cool if..." rather than "Do you know how much money we'll make if..." I have been fortunate to have been in the right place at the right time in terms of product availability as well as having met and/or forming excellent relationships with some of the BEST SCULPTORS OUT THERE (and it doesn't hurt that EVERY BLESSED ONE OF 'EM LOVES AURORA KITS!!!)
> But like any product, add-ons are NOT for everybody; Terry Webb at AFM called me once after giving a parts set I produced a positive review, telling me he had gotten a call from someone who felt $8 for a resin mouth and nameplate was "Highway robbery!!!" BTW, the $8 INCLUDED shipping, admittedly only First Class NOT Priority, but I'm getting off track here. Anyway, I asked Terry what his caller planned to use on HIS kit (a first run of the Moebius Jekyll that had the face missing the teeth) and he told me the guy DREW the teeth on a piece of index card and glued them in place creating what the caller described as a "very realistic effect") AND at a FRACTION of the cost! This is the first time I have ever shared this story online; I have almost retired the mouthpiece molds so I'm willing to take a chance this very creative solution to a modeling obstacle will NOT impact future sales. And Fritz, if people start scanning poster art and cutting out prints of logos rather than ponying up $6 for a beautifully crafted and cast resin nameplate, I apologize in advance.
> Tom Parker
> Cult of Personality Productions


*I know these things are a cottage industry...and some are very nicely done, however I just cannot see spending more than the price of the kit for any add on...as an example : the moebius chariot sold for 35.00*..*the figures sold for $80.00..which is double the price of the kit...I can see $8.00 for a name plate..but a base even with a wall or two, going for $50.00 or more..no thanks...to me, its just extra parts.

In regards to your comment about no aftermarket producer saying "how much money can we make by producing.."..I think its safe to assume they also arent saying "lets do this just for fun"...not at some of those prices they arent, I am sure....of course they want to make money...thats what its all about...nothing wrong with that...its just a question of how much..

in my case..I have a set limit id pay for any kit, no matter how intricate or nicely manufactured it is, but again, some aftermarket add ons are ridiculously high...so I dont sweat it, and don't buy them.
I respect the work that goes into them however..but I wont pony up what I think is inordinately too much.

Z
*


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## Tim Casey (Dec 4, 2004)

*Strange thread....*

You'd think someone was being forced into buying all the Monster Scenes. I'm not really into them, either, but it doesn't get me angry!

I'm a musician, and some of my fellow musicians were into Aurora monster models in the 60s. When they see my model room, they practically wet their pants, and it takes forever to get them out of there and into the studio.

But other musicians who know nothing about models look at the room and think I'm crazy, especially when I tell them how much the Janus Dracula and Bride diorama cost me. They'd think we were all lunatics for even enjoying this hobby. The most diplomatic of them once said "I wouldn't have the patience for this."

To each his own, Matthew. Stop whining, go find a model you feel like building, and forget about the Monster Scenes. They're not for you.


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## Matthew Green (Nov 12, 2000)

Todd P. said:


> Never mind, I'm irritated and it shows.
> 
> Mr. Green, you've properly licensed all those trademarked Universal Studios images on your restaurant and its website, then?


Does Applebee´s PROPERLY license the trademarks in it´s THOUSANDS of photographs they use on their walls at their restaurants? Oh did Planet Hollywood properly trademark ALL of their Hollywood memorabilia and all of their photos on the wall before opening? Please answer the question and we will move on. Would love to see Adam West´s signiture on any contract pertaining to Applebee´s using a photograph of him in their hundreds of restaurants. Or perhaps John Wayne´s estate has CERTAINLY given permission to have photos of him in Applebee´s right?

Someone was mentioning glass houses earlier?


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

Matthew why are you making such a fuss over something that cost you $18 on Ebay? That's nothing these days and it's not the 1970's anymore where kits cost a few dollars. 

As has been pointed out to you making these kits is an expensive business. You ain't being ripped off believe me.


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## TAY666 (Jan 8, 2000)

Zathros said:


> In regards to your comment about no aftermarket producer saying "how much money can we make by producing.."..I think its safe to assume they also arent saying "lets do this just for fun"...not at some of those prices they arent, I am sure....of course they want to make money...thats what its all about...nothing wrong with that...its just a question of how much..


Actually, most resin kits are lucky to break even.
A few make money and hopefully offset the losses the dealers have on the ones that loose money.

By the time you pay a sculptor.
Pay to mold the piece (either pay someone else, or buy the RTV and do it yourself)
Then pay for the resin that goes in the molds (including the lost resin for bad pours)
Then spread those costs our over about 30 castings if you are lucky.
Then you usually don't even pay for the time you have invested in it.
Most of this stuff is done for the love of it. Usually because the producer wants one for himself more than he is worried about making money.


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## otto (Jan 1, 1970)

I used to dabble in garage kits. I produced two. I did the sculpting, the mold making, the casting. And did my own box art and sales.I broke even on one kit and made about $50 on the other. 50 bucks for countless hours of work. Of course I'm not the greatest sculptor in the world, so I didnt sell alot of kits, there wasnt that much demand. But I still dont see how alot of these guys can make a go of it.The guys that pay sculptors, mold makers ect.


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## Zathros (Dec 21, 2000)

TAY666 said:


> Actually, most resin kits are lucky to break even.
> A few make money and hopefully offset the losses the dealers have on the ones that loose money.
> 
> By the time you pay a sculptor.
> ...


*I know the cost of RTV rubber, and I know the cost of various resin materials...its basically the sculpting cost that can be a bit high, but if the producer sculpted it himself...then its a question of what he thinks his time is worth*,*and if hes doing it for the love of the hobby...it shouldnt be a $500 or 1,000 dollar sculpt, so there would be no need to recoup that investment to drive up the sale cost of the kit*..*again, I respect thier work, but I wont pay more than the kits cost for any after market add on, or enhancement to any kit, base, walls, various do dads, or whatever..

As far as original creations made of resin, or whatever, that isn't polystyrene injected, I think some are terrifically made..and I would say what I have seen over the years, look like they are worth thier asking prices..but I am definitely not a "resin" builder guy..so I didn't buy any..I am primarily an aurora guy, and only styrene.

Z
*


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## Zathros (Dec 21, 2000)

Matthew Green said:


> Does Applebee´s PROPERLY license the trademarks in it´s THOUSANDS of photographs they use on their walls at their restaurants? Oh did Planet Hollywood properly trademark ALL of their Hollywood memorabilia and all of their photos on the wall before opening? Please answer the question and we will move on. Would love to see Adam West´s signiture on any contract pertaining to Applebee´s using a photograph of him in their hundreds of restaurants. Or perhaps John Wayne´s estate has CERTAINLY given permission to have photos of him in Applebee´s right?
> 
> Someone was mentioning glass houses earlier?


*I dont know why I am even wasting my time but heres my absolute final comment to you on this matt:

The MS kits that you dont like, compared to most of todays kits are agreed, a bit more primitive and lacking ..However, their release doesnt pretend to be anything more than what they were when they were originally released..we buy them for the nostalgia ,and we have no issues with thier quality.I would strongly suggest you dont by the gruesome goodies, and pain parlour, or you might get quite ILL from the dissapointment..

I suggest you GET OVER IT...and move on...look at it as you spent 18.00 on a case of beer, and didnt like the taste...pour em down the drain, or give em away and get on with life....


CASE CLOSED for ME on the MS issue here..I'm going back to put the finishing touches on that ( HORRIBLY OVERPRICED ) Gigantic frankenstein...Imagine that!! how DARE Moebius re-release that kit for $100.00 MSRP ( even though I paid $80.00) ...! it should have been no more than ..say...$15.00...:tongue:..its only a joke parody of Frankenstein anyway!!!:tongue::tongue:

somehow...I wonder why I don't feel cheated...you think I'd know better...and I bought 2 of them....

Z 
*


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## Zathros (Dec 21, 2000)

Auroranut said:


> He's bloody lucky he doesn't live in Australia!! The Pendulum's $70 here....
> 
> Chris.


*wow, chris:freak:...I guess that all you aussies must be quite financially affluent...I'm afraid to ask what the gigantic frankenstein or the Jupiter 2 must cost there...

Z
*


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## Matthew Green (Nov 12, 2000)

Zathros said:


> *I dont know why I am even wasting my time but heres my absolute final comment to you on this matt:*
> 
> *The MS kits that you dont like, compared to most of todays kits are agreed, a bit more primitive and lacking ..However, their release doesnt pretend to be anything more than what they were when they were originally released..we buy them for the nostalgia ,and we have no issues with thier quality.I would strongly suggest you dont by the gruesome goodies, and pain parlour, or you might get quite ILL from the dissapointment..*
> 
> ...


So why are you wasting your time by posting on this? Take your own advice and get over it and move on. If you don´t like the topic, no one is forcing you either to post in it. 

How is a person to know they are repops? What if a person doesn´t have internet but just saw them in a hobby store? You are saying he doesn´t have the right to say he doesn´t like them. 

I don´t drink beer but have a bar. Quinkydink huh? The problem with the Monster scenes is that I cannot return them. Live in Mexico remember? Bought them from an Ebay seller. I would have to drive hours on end etc. to send them back, get money back etc. 

In 1999 Revell released BOTH Frankenstein and Dracula and they were around $7 each at Toys R Us. Don´t tell me that prices for molding etc. have gone up THAT much in just a few years. I bought the Monster scenes after every one here raved about them. I saw the phony dungeon pic on the internet. 

When Pain Parlor and Gruesome Goodies come out and someone post ACCURATE pics here about what they look like? Size of them etc.? That would be really helpful.

I didn´t buy Gigantic Franky...TOO expensive. A fully functional action figure already painted is far less. But if you guys are happy with that fine. I would rather get more value for my buck.


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## Zathros (Dec 21, 2000)

Matthew Green said:


> How is a person to know they are repops? What if a person doesn´t have internet but just saw them in a hobby store? You are saying he doesn´t have the right to say he doesn´t like them.
> 
> 
> 
> In 1999 Revell released BOTH Frankenstein and Dracula and they were around $7 each at Toys R Us. Don´t tell me that prices for molding etc. have gone up THAT much in just a few years. I bought the Monster scenes after every one here raved about them. I saw the phony dungeon pic on the internet.


*wev'e only told you that numerous times throughout this thread that YOU started, that the MS kits were repops..

The MOM frankenstein and dracula kits were shot from molds made in 1975 by aurora...they sat in Revells storage mold inventory since 1977 when Monogram purchased all aurora molds when aurora folded in 1977..it cost revell/monogram nothing except to shoot the kits..the molds were bought and paid for by aurora long ago. there were no tooling costs for Revell/monogram.thats why they were so cheap..and in addition, they were ToysR us exclusives in 1999, and TRU asked for them., and they ordered, I believe 10,000 of each...and they were poor sellers to boot..towards the end, I bought six of each Drac and frank, for 1.90 each..and they sold here for 12.99 originally, if I recall correctly.

the reason I kept replying to you , was to try to get you to see the logic behind why the vast majority here approve and like the MS kits, but I think your mind is made up. so I wont try further..but I will say that this is a forum that most of the time, approves of most repop kits, so you will almost always meet with friendly but stiff opposition to your opinion, especially the way you framed it..

Pictures of the test shots ( I believe) of the gruesome goodies and pain parlour are on cult tv mans site, I believe....

If you want a large size prepainted horror kit, I guess your collecting tastes are not strictly to modeling..
most of us here like to build and paint..but that of course, is your choice..keep in mind for most of us here, the gigantic frankenstein was a great re-release, as before it, an original unboxed BF was selling ( when one actually popped up) on the collector market in the neighborhood of $2500.00 to 3000 dollars.

the MS kits were part of our youth, and when we originally bought them, we enjoyed them..and those of us that are adult collectors today, want them to fill our collections, as before these came out again this year,they were very expensive and elusive on the collector market...you state you didnt know that these kits were repops...and just for the record...the pain parlour and gruesome goodies are also repops..so in case you didnt know that either.......

NOW..you know...
Z
*


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## Matthew Green (Nov 12, 2000)

Ok...Now I know...But can´t Moebius throw in MORE? The bases for the Victim, Dr. Deadly, and Frankenstein suck. They are retooling or tooling whatever you call it anyways right? Throw in more dungeon floor for the new Moebius kits so you feel like you are getting something. The hanging cage connects to SOMETHING that was released in the past right? What was it?


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## Zathros (Dec 21, 2000)

Matthew Green said:


> Ok...Now I know...But can´t Moebius throw in MORE? The bases for the Victim, Dr. Deadly, and Frankenstein suck. They are retooling or tooling whatever you call it anyways right? Throw in more dungeon floor for the new Moebius kits so you feel like you are getting something. The hanging cage connects to SOMETHING that was released in the past right? What was it?


*moebius is putting out More classic repops than any other company at this time, since polar lights stopped in 2004..plus they are putting out 
issues of thier own that no mainstream kit company would ever touch..and speaking for myself, I think the victim, dr deadly and the frankenstien are great repops.I have experience with tooling costs having worked for kit companies as a consultant..I can assure you that the outlay for the this product line was not cheap , if you add up all those kits..Moebius is putting out the MS kits as they originally came out in 1971, from what I can see, and thats how the classic builder wanted it..I only had the hanging cage and doctor deadly in 1971..I dont believe the MS repops are missing any bases, or additional structures...as far as I am concerned, I will take them as they come out and as they are..and of course , its your choice to buy them or refrain...you can always E-mail Moebius with your take on the kits..

Z
*


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

Matthew Green said:


> In 1999 Revell released BOTH Frankenstein and Dracula and they were around $7 each at Toys R Us. Don´t tell me that prices for molding etc. have gone up THAT much in just a few years. I bought the Monster scenes after every one here raved about them. I saw the phony dungeon pic on the internet.
> .


Actually they were about $14 and the Creature was $20. So get it right at least. And in the last 10 years, unless you have lived in a cave with the Morlocks, there has been a global economic recession/depression. Everything costs more and when sales drop, manufacturers raise prices to recoup costs. A certain number of people will buy say the Monster Scenes, if they are $15 or $25. So if fewer kits sell at a higher price, the maker still makes their profit. 

FYI when Cine Models reissued The Forgotten Prisoner and the Phantom in the early 90s those kits were $25-$35 IIRC.

This has to be the most inane convoluted rant. It makes no sense to compare model kits to action figures and photographs in Applebees.


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## Zombie_61 (Apr 21, 2004)

Matthew Green said:


> ...But can´t Moebius throw in MORE?


Sure they could. But...

First, as Zathros posted, Moebius has re-released these kits exactly as they were originally released, which is what the vast majority of those modelers who _are_ interested in these kits wanted.

Second, more parts/larger parts = increased molding costs = increased production costs = higher m.s.r.p.. Even something as "simple" as increasing the size of the base would likely have raised the shelf price per kit by $5-$15 (just a guess). And, as has been stated, since this is _not_ what was wanted by the majority of modelers who wanted these kits as-is, Moebius would likely have experienced far fewer sales of these kits.

Make no mistake, like any other business Moebius' primary goal is to make a profit; they can't do that properly by adding elements to a kit at their expense. But you also have to remember a large percentage of their profit goes right back into the research, development, and production of new kits (this includes reissues) which, for the most part, satisfy us modelers. Are their prices reasonable? In your opinion, no; in my opinion, yes. But they are what they are, and it's up to each modeler to determine for themselves whether or not the product is worth the price; for most of us, it is.

To be clear, I am in no way intending to diminish or invalidate your opinions, nor am I trying to change your opinion on this matter. I am simply adding my own meager opinions to the discussion; after all, that's one of the reasons we're all here.


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## Zathros (Dec 21, 2000)

djnick66 said:


> Actually they were about $14 and the Creature was $20. So get it right at least.


*in 1999, tru only sold the MOTM Dracula and frankenstien...there was no
motm creature ever released since 1975..

Z
*


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

Oh ok the MoTm kits. I am referring to the 1/8 long box kits. Yes I know there is no MoTM creature reissue then.


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## mcdougall (Oct 28, 2007)

Matthew Green said:


> I just have my waiters build and paint my kits when they are not waiting on customers at my monster cafe. I like finished products much better than doing them.


 I enjoy building, painting and collecting Aurora kits...to me the Moebius re-pops are worth every penny:thumbsup:
Thanks Moebius
Mcdee


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## Matthew Green (Nov 12, 2000)

djnick66 said:


> Actually they were about $14 and the Creature was $20. So get it right at least. And in the last 10 years, unless you have lived in a cave with the Morlocks, there has been a global economic recession/depression. Everything costs more and when sales drop, manufacturers raise prices to recoup costs. A certain number of people will buy say the Monster Scenes, if they are $15 or $25. So if fewer kits sell at a higher price, the maker still makes their profit.
> 
> FYI when Cine Models reissued The Forgotten Prisoner and the Phantom in the early 90s those kits were $25-$35 IIRC.
> 
> This has to be the most inane convoluted rant. It makes no sense to compare model kits to action figures and photographs in Applebees.


I got mine for $7 each. And I think the photographs at Applebees works perfectly when someone says why didn´t I trademark the images in my cafe. If Applebee´s didn´t, why should I have to?


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## Todd P. (Apr 12, 2007)

What Mr. Green fails to realize is that Applebees and Planet Hollywood don't use unlicensed trademark images in their logos, on their homepages or on the signs for their restaurants. The posters and memorabilia inside are a separate matter.

His Monster Cafe draws customers — thus making money — with images that don't belong to him. That's the same thing he criticized resin kit producers for doing.

His cafe would not do as well if he didn't use these trademarked images.

Just to make sure it's clear, I have no problem with his use of these images. He raised the issue and shouldn't be surprised that someone pointed out the contradiction.

This thread has moved far into the ludicrous.


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## Cro-Magnon Man (Jun 11, 2001)

Matthew Green said:


> Very insulting? I haven´t cussed anyone out or called them ANY sort of names.
> Why do you guys want this locked so badly? Does the truth hurt or something? I think we are having a fine discussion. If you hate my opinions so badly, WHY do you keep responding?


Yep, it is a fine discussion, Matthew, and you've kept your opinions brief while others have written paragraph after lengthy paragraph! It's been like a Bulletin Board thread of ten or twelve years ago - one member being beset on all sides. I like the way some of those who said they're not coming back to this thread, have come right back!


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## Todd P. (Apr 12, 2007)

You're right about that, I'm one who has come back despite swearing off it. Name-calling and dirty words are not required to find something offensive, and so I've felt a need to defend people I respect from being called greedy and/or frauds. But I won't bother anymore; plainly I'm not the only one taking umbrage.


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## Matthew Green (Nov 12, 2000)

Todd P. said:


> What Mr. Green fails to realize is that Applebees and Planet Hollywood don't use unlicensed trademark images in their logos, on their homepages or on the signs for their restaurants. The posters and memorabilia inside are a separate matter.
> 
> His Monster Cafe draws customers — thus making money — with images that don't belong to him. That's the same thing he criticized resin kit producers for doing.
> 
> ...


It is STILL a draw for their customers that KNOW such pictures exist inside. It is the exact same thing if you have a sports bar with pictures of baseball stars there.

The sign outside is not a trademarked image. Frankenstein is public material. It is my version of him.

My website is a different thing. Perhaps I could change Boris´face but that is the only thing I got that might be questionable. The monster bash conference doesn´t have to trademark anything, neither does Creepy classics. The resin guys SELL products which are in direct violation of trademarks. I sell FOOD! You cannot trademark a regular chicken sandwich or hamburger. I am not calling them Big macs.


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## deadmanincfan (Mar 11, 2008)

This thread has gotten totally out of control. I don't know HOW it got unlocked or WHO unlocked it but could a moderator PLEASE LOCK IT DOWN FOR GOOD AND ALL???!!! 
...stuff like this is why I had to give serious thought as to if I wanted to remain a HT supporter this year...


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## Matthew Green (Nov 12, 2000)

Some people are just weird as heck. Deadman you do not HAVE to come to this thread and post. Why do you feel compelled to? Now you threaten Hobbytalk with not giving donations if a certain topic is not to your liking...That is SO petty amigo.

You don´t see my talking about the 100 car or Jupiter 2 topics do you? I leave them alone FOR THE PEOPLE THAT LIKE THOSE SUBJECTS! I don´t threaten hobbytalk about never donating because those topics are up do I?

Anyway if no one else doesn´t want to comment...Don´t. The thread will get pushed down and the new Car model boring topic will replace it.


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## louspal (Sep 13, 2009)

I have a lot of respect for the car modelers; craftsman all! How dare you sir!


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## AuroraFan1 (May 14, 2009)

Cro-Magnon Man said:


> Yep, it is a fine discussion, Matthew, and you've kept your opinions brief while others have written paragraph after lengthy paragraph! It's been like a Bulletin Board thread of ten or twelve years ago - one member being beset on all sides. I like the way some of those who said they're not coming back to this thread, have come right back!


Got to agree there.

Matt has his opinion, and we are not here to try to alter his mind on MS period.

Also for those who continue to threaten to quit, well...................


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## Matthew Green (Nov 12, 2000)

louspal said:


> I have a lot of respect for the car modelers; craftsman all! How dare you sir!


I am sure they are great craftsmen. I am just not interested in cars. Not even in the one I drive. And it´s not that I hate Monster Scenes...I don´t hate them. I hate the price point for such what I feel is a little kit I am getting. It´s the same price as the Huge Revell: Dracula, Creature, Mummy, Franky, and Wolfman they just released.


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## louspal (Sep 13, 2009)

Matthew Green said:


> I am sure they are great craftsmen. I am just not interested in cars. Not even in the one I drive. And it´s not that I hate Monster Scenes...I don´t hate them. I hate the price point for such what I feel is a little kit I am getting. It´s the same price as the Huge Revell: Dracula, Creature, Mummy, Franky, and Wolfman they just released.


Just trying to stir the s**t. Rock on.


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## MadCap Romanian (Oct 29, 2005)

I hope no one will leave because of this 1 post.


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

MadCap Romanian said:


> I hope no one will leave because of this 1 post.




It would take a lot more for me to leave than that. In all fairness to Matthew he's not being abusive and he's got every right (within the rules of this site of course) to put forward his opinion and I'm glad this thread's been left open. 

I don't agree with what he's saying and think he's making a big fuss about nothing but as long as there's no abusive stuff I don't think thread's should be locked just because someone's got a different view point. Best to see the different side and challenge it I think.


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## bizzarobrian (Oct 4, 2009)

I did cave & picked up the Giant Insect.But that`s it for me.


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## bizzarobrian (Oct 4, 2009)

bizzarobrian said:


> I did cave & picked up the Giant Insect.But that`s it for me.


Not following the paint scheme of the box art though.Too hokey!


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## Matthew Green (Nov 12, 2000)

SUNGOD said:


> It would take a lot more for me to leave than that. In all fairness to Matthew he's not being abusive and he's got every right (within the rules of this site of course) to put forward his opinion and I'm glad this thread's been left open.
> 
> I don't agree with what he's saying and think he's making a big fuss about nothing but as long as there's no abusive stuff I don't think thread's should be locked just because someone's got a different view point. Best to see the different side and challenge it I think.


Well you spoke too soon. Louspal just messed it up by cussing. Children might come to this site sir. Leave the suggested profanity out of it please.


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## Zathros (Dec 21, 2000)

*matt, I respect your opinion and your right to state it...however, I dont think your opinion is going to change the price points of any upcoming re-releases that mobius is doing on the MS kits..youd do better e-mailing Frank at his website at Moebius.. I dont think that will change it either...but its his show...Id rather go to the top dog, myself, than the purchasing puppies..


Z
*


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## AuroraFan1 (May 14, 2009)

Matt, this might take the sting out of the pricing:

Griffin Trains .Com is having a sale on MS:

Dr Deadly, Victim and Frankenstein selling for $8.47 each 

Pendulum, Hanging Cage and the Giant Insect going for $10.16 each

Prices do not include shipping and handling.

Check it out!


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## aurora fan (Jan 18, 1999)

Matt, I read this entire thread to see how in the world this subject could go for 13 plus pages and would like to say your Monster Cafe seems really cool! A lot of original art and great ideas! I come to Mexico often and don't know the location of your Cafe but hope I can come in person someday! The Frankenstein art (P1080315) is really cool. Really great job!

Oh, I never bought the snap kits, even back in the day. Kinda cheesy, IMO. Awsome so many people like em, though.


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## Tim H. (Jun 23, 2009)

MadCap Romanian said:


> I hope no one will leave because of this 1 post.


That's it, MCR, I'm outta here!  Wait, I never came in here before :freak:

I had bought the Vampirella in '72, nearly naked girl Vampirella (was reading the comics at the time) model ya know!  Kit didn't especially grab me (size wise and not realistically sculpted like the other monsters) so passed on the rest. I can see a lot of people are having fun with them so that's cool. Wonder if the as yet unknown "action figure market" would have saved Aurora?


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## deadmanincfan (Mar 11, 2008)

Matthew Green said:


> Some people are just weird as heck. Deadman you do not HAVE to come to this thread and post. Why do you feel compelled to? Now you threaten Hobbytalk with not giving donations if a certain topic is not to your liking...That is SO petty amigo.
> 
> You don´t see my talking about the 100 car or Jupiter 2 topics do you? I leave them alone FOR THE PEOPLE THAT LIKE THOSE SUBJECTS! I don´t threaten hobbytalk about never donating because those topics are up do I?
> 
> Anyway if no one else doesn´t want to comment...Don´t. The thread will get pushed down and the new Car model boring topic will replace it.


Can you tell me WHERE I threatened to not give a donation, Matthew? And calling me weird as heck...


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## hedorah59 (Nov 24, 2008)

I just put someone on my ignore list, and now this thread is MUCH less annoying! :thumbsup:


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## deadmanincfan (Mar 11, 2008)

PM, KIrk...


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## Matthew Green (Nov 12, 2000)

deadmanincfan said:


> This thread has gotten totally out of control. I don't know HOW it got unlocked or WHO unlocked it but could a moderator PLEASE LOCK IT DOWN FOR GOOD AND ALL???!!!
> ...stuff like this is why I had to give serious thought as to if I wanted to remain a HT supporter this year...


Isn´t this a subtle threat? That if this isn´t locked you will give serious thought about being a supporter? A slight threat to withold money until someone locks it?

If it was not said in that vein, then I am sorry. But it kinda looks like it.


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## TRENDON (May 24, 2000)

:beatdeadhorse:
I don't come here as often as I used to so, Far be it for me to tell anyone what to do.

With that being said, I've come to this conclusion...

Mr. Matt is a bit younger than most of us and he just doesn't get why we are so fond of these kits.

I do have to say that I appreciate the fact that a younger person is getting involved in the hobby of *Monster Model Building*, even if I don't agree with his thoughts on the *Monster Scenes* kits.

In my opinion, it is *VERY* important that younger generations get involved in order to keep this hobby alive.
You *DON'T* see this too often.

Matt, you want bigger kits and a Bigger Bang for your Buck.
Okay, you might want to stick to the other *Moebius* kits like *The Mummy*, *Frankenstein*, *The Invisible Man* and a new _(Great looking)_ *Dracula* kit.

As you have pointed out, *Revell* has re-issued some of the original *AURORA *Monsters like *Frankenstein*, *Wolf Man*, *Mummy*, *Dracula* _(with a new head) _and _(I think)_ the *Creature*.
These are actually my favorite Monster models of all time due to the fact that I grew up with these kits.
I'm not crazy about the new *Dracula* head *BUT* it's out there for anyone that does want to buy it.

As for the *Monster Scenes* kits...
I'm currently working on a *Dr. Deadly* and he's Lookin' Good.
Sure, they are small but you _(as a modeler)_ can really do a lot with them if you choose to.
As I said, I don't see these kits fading away anytime soon and I'm happy for that.

Peace Guys.
:wave:

Mike


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## Matthew Green (Nov 12, 2000)

Yes Trendon I agree! And Moebius don´t worry...I will be buying your new Dracula kit and the new Monsters of the Movies Creature kits. I know they are of bigger size and have good detail. I will be happy with them for sure!

and Monarch, I will get your cyclops, Gorgo, and Beast models.

Monster Cafe needs some new denizens!


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## Kit (Jul 9, 2009)

Matthew Green said:


> I will be buying your new Dracula kit and the new Monsters of the Movies Creature kits. QUOTE]
> 
> The MOTM Creature's a great kit. Small, though.


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## mrmurph (Nov 21, 2007)

Diversity is an important aspect of this hobby. Not every kit trips everyone's trigger. I'm not a huge vehicle fan, but I'm really happy for the folks who are. If we get a lot of great kits which appeal to a variety of people, the manufacturers will stay in business and be able to produce more of what we all like.

(Not sure how this topic devolved into an argument, but oh well.)


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## gimijimi (Jun 23, 2008)

bizzarobrian said:


> They are uber expensive & look like McDonalds toys.I don`t get it.


That's kind of like asking what's the big deal about dayglo paint. Sometimes, I guess you just had to have been there.

Good question though. I swear to god that I badgered my best friend over his collection of monster figures. Could not figure it out. At least until one day when I watched Maureen O'hara in the Hunchback of Notre Dame, and saw his model, sitting with his "Big Franky," his Dracula, Wolfman, and the rest.

Maybe it just grows on you. Good question.


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## bizzarobrian (Oct 4, 2009)

bizzarobrian said:


> Not following the paint scheme of the box art though.Too hokey!


But I do smell a cool JLA diorama starring this bug!!


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## bizzarobrian (Oct 4, 2009)

Matthew Green said:


> I am sure they are great craftsmen. I am just not interested in cars. Not even in the one I drive. And it´s not that I hate Monster Scenes...I don´t hate them. I hate the price point for such what I feel is a little kit I am getting. It´s the same price as the Huge Revell: Dracula, Creature, Mummy, Franky, and Wolfman they just released.


The quality is not so good.The plastic seems off or funky almost like a resin instead of styrene.The insect had bad flashing & most green parts were off their sprues.


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