# Please do not steal my work!!!



## orbital drydock (Apr 23, 2013)

It has come to my attention that there are "pro" builders out there who have scanned my mask sets & instructions. They are now currently making their own mask sets using my layouts & designs on their commissioned builds. One was foolish enough to release a youtube video showing my scanned layout & cutting a set. Folks if you buy my products, I'm watching your builds. I've been out of touch lately, & just now getting caught up with business & the world. Now that I know what's going on, I'll be keeping watch for ANYONE copying my work. I will start announcing who these builders are. 

THIS IS THEFT FOLKS!! It has taken me a lot of time & work to put these mask sets out. You know who you are, you are supposedly respected members of the modeling community, you know this is WRONG!!!

Please do not steal my work!!!


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## robiwon (Oct 20, 2006)

That's not right. This is recasting as well and is a big no no in the modeling community. I don't see how anyone can justify doing that with your masks. Good luck!


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## orbital drydock (Apr 23, 2013)

robiwon said:


> That's not right. This is recasting as well and is a big no no in the modeling community. I don't see how anyone can justify doing that with your masks. Good luck!


Thanks for the support robiwon! It was bound to happen, just really disappointing when it finally did.

RECASTER IN ACTION!!!

Wally Pastenak - Starfleet model academy
At 16:45 you will see him happily display my mask layout on his screen & cut a set.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xsk8bq2rcs


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## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

Well that sucks. It's theft plain and simple.


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## orbital drydock (Apr 23, 2013)

Trekkriffic said:


> Well that sucks. It's theft plain and simple.


He's being pretty bold about it.


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

"OrbitalDrydock BC 2 hours ago
Not too thrilled seeing my mask layout on your screen & cutter "

I think you were almost too polite about it...


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## hal9001 (May 28, 2008)

Here, here! I think you should show a list of members (or anyone else) that are doing this.

Carl-


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## orbital drydock (Apr 23, 2013)

Richard Baker said:


> "OrbitalDrydock BC 2 hours ago
> Not too thrilled seeing my mask layout on your screen & cutter "
> 
> I think you were almost too polite about it...


Lol.. so much that he hasn't even seen me draw & fire.
Smile... draw... fire... all at the same time



hal9001 said:


> Here, here! I think you should show a list of members (or anyone else) that are doing this.
> 
> Carl-


That's the plan. There are a couple other suspected folks. I won't name anyone until they give me proof. Trust me offenders, I know my designs, there are hidden watermarks in almost all of them.


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## tardis1916 (Mar 24, 2004)

Some people just have no respect for others hard work. Which reminds me, I need to order some masks for one of my projects, I will order from you to show my support.


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## robn1 (Nov 17, 2012)

Looks like he deleted your comment.


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## drewid142 (Apr 23, 2004)

Ok... Fight back... Everybody just add a comment to his video asking him how long it took him to make the designs for his masks, or how he went about measuring the model for his masks or what his reference material was for his masks


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## robiwon (Oct 20, 2006)

Give it a thumbs down as well. I don't think those can be deleted.


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## orbital drydock (Apr 23, 2013)

Definitely thank you for the support here, it is appreciated!



tardis1916 said:


> Some people just have no respect for others hard work. Which reminds me, I need to order some masks for one of my projects, I will order from you to show my support.


Agreed & thanks!



robn1 said:


> Looks like he deleted your comment.





drewid142 said:


> Ok... Fight back... Everybody just add a comment to his video asking him how long it took him to make the designs for his masks, or how he went about measuring the model for his masks or what his reference material was for his masks


I made another comment, those & his response were deleted. I'm certain other comments will be deleted.

I can say the 1/350 set is based off of a custom set I did for a 1/2 studio scale TOS in 2011-2012. That 1/2 SS set is based off of 1st season blu-ray 1080p screen grabs, 2 sets of post-refinish Smithsonian pics, & 1 re-worked font set. I won't go into tricks for dimensioning, those are my best secrets



robiwon said:


> Give it a thumbs down as well. I don't think those can be deleted.


:thumbsup:

Bottom line for me, I don't care who this is happens to. If I saw someone do this to Lou aka: Aztek Dummy, I would feel for him. I don't copy or translate Lou's work, JT graphics, Acreation, trekmodeler, carlos zag files, ANY aftermarket or free producer of masks or decals. Not for my production builds, not for my personal builds, not for my products.

Everyone has something great & different to offer. Creating new products, or processes should motivate each other to create better products, have new ideas & adds to innovation. All else takes away.


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## orbital drydock (Apr 23, 2013)

I have to admit folks, I'm usually a really nice guy about most things. Though... after watching his videos more closely, this has me pretty fired up. He clearly acts like he created the layout & design. From 15:20-15:50 in this video he goes on about

"......show you how easy this kind of is to cut these out. Once you get the main drawings done & everything else, you put them in the computer. You just can't go ahead & put the paper in & say cut it... this actually has to be drawn out & plotted size wise to figure out what you want to do with it, how it wants to lay out & then that gets fed into the computer & then it gets cut. I'm not going to show you all of that, but I'll show you the drawing on the computer & then I'll show you it being cut on the vinyl, so....."

WHAT!?!?!...... Of course he's "not going to show you all of that", he didn't do it.

Nowhere in any of his videos showing the recent 1/350 TOS build can I find him state that he is using Orbital Drydock masks, or designs.


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## whereisanykey (Sep 25, 2011)

Apparently a comment linking to this page was also deleted. It lasted about 30 minutes.


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## MartyS (Mar 11, 2014)

How did those new annotations get added? I went to the part of the video where he shows the drawing on the computer to see if he changed anything at all (doesn't look like it, seems to be a straight up scan), and there are now annotations calling out the theft.


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## Fozzie (May 25, 2009)

Soon-to-be-deleted post made. Thumbs down given. Glad to support you in this, Orbital Drydock.


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## Fozzie (May 25, 2009)

MartyS said:


> How did those new annotations get added? I went to the part of the video where he shows the drawing on the computer to see if he changed anything at all (doesn't look like it, seems to be a straight up scan), and there are now annotations calling out the theft.


Just saw that. Neat trick whoever pulled that off. :thumbsup:


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## orbital drydock (Apr 23, 2013)

MartyS said:


> How did those new annotations get added? I went to the part of the video where he shows the drawing on the computer to see if he changed anything at all (doesn't look like it, seems to be a straight up scan), and there are now annotations calling out the theft.





Fozzie said:


> Soon-to-be-deleted post made. Thumbs down given. Glad to support you in this, Orbital Drydock.


Thanks Folks

Well... he put those annotations up... I requested that the video be edited, or removed. Not quite what I was looking for... 

It is a straight scan. I'd say go to my website, download the instructions & see, but.. I pulled 'em last night. They will now all be emailed until I can get the site overhaul done.


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## orbital drydock (Apr 23, 2013)

Log in to you tube to view comments


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

Despite Youtube existing primarily as the world's foremost copyright infringement site, they do take copyright infringement seriously. Witness the many, many artists who have shut down various Youtube offerings. If you can prove that this is your material that he's stolen and is basically advertising on his videos, perhaps Youtube can shut him down.

Copyright is becoming hazier and hazier. If he can show that he has "improved" your work in some way, then it's quite possible that it has legitimately become his work. I don't understand or agree with how that works, but that's the way it seems to be. Maybe he's changed sizes of certain portions of it, maybe he's re-proportioned or sharpened bits of it. If that's the case, it might be his now.

And of course all of this assumes that you have the rights to the material yourself, that you're legitimately licensed by whoever. If you're not, you're in copyright violation yourself, even tho' all the artwork and research is your own. I could probably sell all the artwork I've designed for my many, many projects and posted here but a) I'd rather share my work freely with anyone who's interested and b) I don't have any licenses anyway. Despite literally thousands of hours, none of my stuff is actually mine to sell. I see it popping up all over the 'net and sometimes I'm flattered and sometimes I'm angry, but as long as no-one else sells it, it evens out in the end. And, legally, someone selling my stuff wouldn't be guilty of anything more than bad manners. Much of the after-market and fandom depends on honor among thieves, I guess. 

But I'd be careful of anyone accusing him of stealing someone elses' property on a public forum like YouTube. Especially if you don't have iron-clad smoking-gun proof. You could get banned. You could get sued.


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## orbital drydock (Apr 23, 2013)

starseeker said:


> Despite Youtube existing primarily as the world's foremost copyright infringement site, they do take copyright infringement seriously. Witness the many, many artists who have shut down various Youtube offerings. If you can prove that this is your material that he's stolen and is basically advertising on his videos, perhaps Youtube can shut him down.
> 
> Copyright is becoming hazier and hazier. If he can show that he has "improved" your work in some way, then it's quite possible that it has legitimately become his work. I don't understand or agree with how that works, but that's the way it seems to be. Maybe he's changed sizes of certain portions of it, maybe he's re-proportioned or sharpened bits of it. If that's the case, it might be his now.
> 
> ...


You are correct, some is up to the movie houses to decide what happens to any aftermarket producer. If you aren't making a product that directly competes with a licensed product & actually requires the licensed product for use. It tends to generate more sales for the licensed product.

In this case, yes I do have iron clad proof that is my layout on his screen. All of the construction files are on my system. Also here is the page from my instructions with the same layout next to a screen shot of his.


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## hal9001 (May 28, 2008)

Well, looks like he was taken to the carpet, it now says, as of 7/26 3:30 CST "removed by user"....

Guess he got the message!?

Tucked his tail, gathered his marbles and went home....

Carl-


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## TIEbomber1967 (May 21, 2012)

starseeker said:


> Despite Youtube existing primarily as the world's foremost copyright infringement site, they do take copyright infringement seriously.


I don't think that's _quite_ right. They take being sued seriously, so when a letter from a lawyer comes in they hop to it and take the offending video down.
But, they are in no way proactive. They are not constantly looking for infringement, you have to send them a letter informing them of the violation. Actually, you have to send them a letter for each video you want removed. They will not honor a "blanket" letter telling them to remove all illegal content. It's a real pain in the butt.

They are perfectly fine with copyright infringement, as long as no one complains.


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## WOI (Jun 28, 2012)

I have got no intention of doing that.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

whereisanykey said:


> Apparently a comment linking to this page was also deleted. It lasted about 30 minutes.


That was me. Well, I tried.


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## orbital drydock (Apr 23, 2013)

WOI said:


> I have got no intention of doing that.


?????


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## orbital drydock (Apr 23, 2013)

WOI said:


> I have got no intention of doing that.


I'm wondering what you mean by that & if you are Wally?


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## frightnen (Sep 27, 2013)

I'm sorry your work is getting stolen, it seems like the community is helping you get everything with back on track. Please let us know when you're back into the full swing of things and shipping again, I'll be happy to order.


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## orbital drydock (Apr 23, 2013)

frightnen said:


> I'm sorry your work is getting stolen, it seems like the community is helping you get everything with back on track. Please let us know when you're back into the full swing of things and shipping again, I'll be happy to order.


Thanks, & folks have rallied support, it is appreciated.

Heads up folks, shipping started again this week. Sorry for any delays. Move #1 into the temp shop is complete. Move #2 into the permanent shop is at the end of Aug. I'll be overstocking everything in the store to prevent shipping delays for move #2. I severely underestimated the stock for move #1. Again apologies for that & late orders, they're on their way.

Once the permanent BIG shop is set up, it's on! Getting some new equipment additions for the big shop & it's time to ramp up everything. Will have new mask sets coming out. Along with 2 new product lines that may have nothing to do with masks, or painting at all.....


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## Havok69 (Nov 3, 2012)

Hopefully things sort themselves out for you. I have personally bought a few of your masks and they are top notch products. I plan on purchasing more once I start on my BSG kick. I'm glad that despite this you appear to be successfully growing your business and I wish you the best of luck...


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## Paulbo (Sep 16, 2004)

OK, my inner grammar Nazi is coming out ...

His main YouTube page says "Invision the Future" in the header image. I believe he wants "Envision the Future" because "Invision" means "want or lack of vision" while "Envision" means "to picture mentally, especially some future event or events".

Either that, or he's really stating that he has a lack of vision.

LOL!


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## orbital drydock (Apr 23, 2013)

Paulbo said:


> OK, my inner grammar Nazi is coming out ...
> 
> His main YouTube page says "Invision the Future" in the header image. I believe he wants "Envision the Future" because "Invision" means "want or lack of vision" while "Envision" means "to picture mentally, especially some future event or events".
> 
> ...


LOL indeed!

When someone takes instead of contributes, that could be considered a lack of vision. I guess it's spelled correctly intended or not.


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## orbital drydock (Apr 23, 2013)

So folks I'm gonna' go ahead & holster my irons on this one. Video's down, apology was made, maybe a lesson learned for both. Everyone, sincere thanks for the support, it is very much appreciated.

I still have my eye on a couple & will be watching closely. Hopefully this will be some sort of deterrent to either copying my work, or at least posting videos doing it.... won't be holdin' my breath there.

When we're building every one of us borrows reference material, ideas, techniques, processes, knowledge... That's all we really do though. We borrow knowledge & then loan it to someone else. We all in turn learn from each other & teach each other. When we talk about who & where we learned from. It creates links that connect more people together & makes our world a greater place.


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## supercoolin (Jul 9, 2009)

Make Your Own Masks.....

After I started building the PL 1/350 Enterprise Refit with my Grandson, I began to have problems getting the paint masks which led me to look for alternatives on various forums and I found this thread which I made an inappropriate comment on (And again, I apologize doing it). But because of the content of this thread I contacted Wally @ Starfleet Model Academy to find out if he had masks for sale. Wally explained that I could make my own if I had a scanner and a vinyl cutter. Thankfully my Daughter is a scrapbooker and owns a Brother Scan-n-Cut frisket cutter and uses a free software program that allows you to scan and cut masks of off any picture. As Wally explained, all you have to do is scan in the decals that come with your model, have the program cut between the different colors and wallaa, you have your own masks. You can cut a mask for each color and change them when you change the paint in your airbrush. Here is the results before sanding with 1500 grit wet/dry and touching up the bleed through. THANX Wally for letting me know how to make my own masks. Also US Cutter makes a complete system for less than 200.00 that will allow you to make masks for any project and allow you to replace any decal with actual paint.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-14-USCut...-/300881421655

I have started scanning all the PL decals and cutting the Aztec masks and they are turning out incredible! I am making a full mask set for each of the water based iridescent colors that I bought from McKenzie Taxidermy Supply. Once I get my refund for the mask set that I ordered, I will have paid for half of my own personal mask cutter.

THANK YOU WALLY!!


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## orbital drydock (Apr 23, 2013)

supercoolin said:


> Make Your Own Masks.....
> 
> After I started building the PL 1/350 Enterprise Refit with my Grandson, I began to have problems getting the paint masks which led me to look for alternatives on various forums and I found this thread which I made an inappropriate comment on (And again, I apologize doing it). But because of the content of this thread I contacted Wally @ Starfleet Model Academy to find out if he had masks for sale. Wally explained that I could make my own if I had a scanner and a vinyl cutter. Thankfully my Daughter is a scrapbooker and owns a Brother Scan-n-Cut frisket cutter and uses a free software program that allows you to scan and cut masks of off any picture. As Wally explained, all you have to do is scan in the decals that come with your model, have the program cut between the different colors and wallaa, you have your own masks. You can cut a mask for each color and change them when you change the paint in your airbrush. Here is the results before sanding with 1500 grit wet/dry and touching up the bleed through. THANX Wally for letting me know how to make my own masks. Also US Cutter makes a complete system for less than 200.00 that will allow you to make masks for any project and allow you to replace any decal with actual paint.
> 
> ...


All you are doing is trolling me around all of the forums supporting someone who copied my work. All because of your late order.


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## orbital drydock (Apr 23, 2013)

You haven't posted anything here in 5yrs except to do this. You already did it on theRPF. You signed up as a new member there to do it.


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## orbital drydock (Apr 23, 2013)

Heads up, I've closed my store.

All of the last orders are being filled & shipped.

Best of luck.


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## Spockr (Sep 14, 2009)

orbital drydock said:


> Heads up, I've closed my store.
> 
> All of the last orders are being filled & shipped.
> 
> Best of luck.


Hoping that's only a short term thing. I've heard people praise your products and hope you'll get back at it after you settle in to your new place and things quiet down. All the best! 

Regards,
Matt


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## Garbaron (Apr 23, 2004)

Sorry to hear about your troubels and also sad that its forcing you to close your store. 
Am in the early thinking stages of doing another 1/350 Refit and was looking forward to use your Aztec masks as they are MUCH superior to the Aztec Dummy ones I used before. 

I hope it alle sorts out for you and best luck in RL for you. 

Regards

Garbaron


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## supercoolin (Jul 9, 2009)

Garbaron said:


> Sorry to hear about your troubels and also sad that its forcing you to close your store.
> Am in the early thinking stages of doing another 1/350 Refit and was looking forward to use your Aztec masks as they are MUCH superior to the Aztec Dummy ones I used before.
> 
> I hope it alle sorts out for you and best luck in RL for you.
> ...


His masks were superior to everybody else because of the quality cutter he has. But rather than wait for months to get them, I was forced to make my own with my daughter's Brother Scan-n-Cut. I would now be curious to see if the web purchased masks would be superior to home made ones. And I must note that Wally told me how to do this for free because that is how he makes his masks. This is the progress with home made masks.


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## orbital drydock (Apr 23, 2013)

supercoolin said:


> His masks were superior to everybody else because of the quality cutter he has. But rather than wait for months to get them, I was forced to make my own with my daughter's Brother Scan-n-Cut. I would now be curious to see if the web purchased masks would be superior to home made ones. And I must note that Wally told me how to do this for free because that is how he makes his masks. This is the progress with home made masks.


Doing this to me for 9hrs yesterday on theRPF clearly wasn't enough.

Again if you think it's just the equipment, best of luck


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## orbital drydock (Apr 23, 2013)

Now you are going to continue it here.


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## orbital drydock (Apr 23, 2013)

9hrs solid you did this on theRPF on the same thread. They finally locked the thread at my request, so now you do it here.

You are only upset about your late order which has already been refunded. 

Your messages are only about jabbing me in the eye, while supporting someone who copied my work


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## barrydancer (Aug 28, 2009)

supercoolin said:


> His masks were superior to everybody else because of the quality cutter he has. But rather than wait for months to get them, I was forced to make my own with my daughter's Brother Scan-n-Cut. I would now be curious to see if the web purchased masks would be superior to home made ones. And I must note that Wally told me how to do this for free because that is how he makes his masks. This is the progress with home made masks.


Dude, I read the whole thing over at The RPF just now. Please don't bring this shit over here.

I and many others here have ordered from Brett multiple times over the years. He's a good guy with a good product and I've never read any complaints here about his work. You got your refund, you've got your workaround to not getting his masks, you got into a giant argument on another board and got to say your peace. 

Let it go, and don't bring it to Hobby Talk.


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## supercoolin (Jul 9, 2009)

barrydancer said:


> Dude, I read the whole thing over at The RPF just now. Please don't bring this shit over here.
> 
> I and many others here have ordered from Brett multiple times over the years. He's a good guy with a good product and I've never read any complaints here about his work. You got your refund, you've got your workaround to not getting his masks, you got into a giant argument on another board and got to say your peace.
> 
> Let it go, and don't bring it to Hobby Talk.


Barrydancer,

When I scanned the PL decals like Wally told me how , the geometric patterns of the Polar Light decal match his masks identically. I don't want to be accused of stealing his work like Wally, because the masks scanned from the PL decals look just like his.


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## orbital drydock (Apr 23, 2013)

supercoolin said:


> Barrydancer,
> 
> When I scanned the PL decals like Wally told me how , the geometric patterns of the Polar Light decal match his masks identically. I don't want to be accused of stealing his work like Wally, because the masks scanned from the PL decals look just like his.


v1 production of that set was stopped for the exact reason that I had realized what I was doing & corrected my error.

You have a very early v1 copy that yes was based on the decals. That design was changed exactly for that reason. It is why the Refit v2 set was made.

You also have my supplemental set which is the entire v2 set minus the saucer trees which those will not line up with any decals. That supplemental set is priced so those who bought v1 paid about the same total as someone who purchased v2.

My v2 set will not match up with any decals anywhere.

There is a difference here. Nobody had to call me out on anything. I realized it was wrong & made the decision to change it.

Yes I can admit my mistakes.


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## supercoolin (Jul 9, 2009)

orbital drydock said:


> v1 production of that set was stopped for the exact reason that I had realized what I was doing & corrected my error.
> 
> You have a very early v1 copy that yes was based on the decals. That design was changed exactly for that reason. It is why the Refit v2 set was made.
> 
> ...


Done is Done
Only if I had the time to wait for your V2 set.


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## orbital drydock (Apr 23, 2013)

supercoolin said:


> Done is Done
> Only if I had the time to wait for your V2 set.


You do realize that having the supplemental set(you received in june) & v1, which you already ordered both, gave you a v2 set.
That supplemental set has replacements for all of the decal based masks in the v1 set.

Since you are doing the E-hull you could have used all of your masks from the supplemental set to start working a month ago.
Also if you're v1 set wasn't useable, I would have gladly sent a v2 2color set free. Along with another set of widow masks you asked for, which I offered for no payment.

If your v1 set wasn't good any more. Only masks you would have had to wait for are the saucer tree & nacelles.

You could have started a month ago & done 2/3 of this ship while you gave me a little more time. Yet this is what you chose to do.

You could have spent this whole time working on your ship while you waited for 1/3 of a set you didn't have. Consider that


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## supercoolin (Jul 9, 2009)

orbital drydock said:


> You do realize that having the supplemental set & v1, which you already ordered both, gave you a v2 set.


As I explained, all the masks were received shrunk'n up and do not fit the model. Shipping vinyl masks during the hot desert months, the USPS allows them to be openly exposed to the high heat and they are destroyed during shipping. All packages should be marked fragile or heat sensitive with cheap stickers. They will not align and that is why I re-ordered the master set. There is no question your sets have much better cut lines than home made and because the mask material you have is of much higher quality, they don't "raise" the paint lines, but what I have is garbage due to USPS. And you know darn well that I might not have a tomorrow to wake up to. Can't wait so I made my own crappy masks that seem to work.


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## orbital drydock (Apr 23, 2013)

supercoolin said:


> As I explained, all the masks were received shrunk'n up and do not fit the model. Shipping vinyl masks during the hot desert months, the USPS allows them to be openly exposed to the high heat and they are destroyed during shipping. All packages should be marked fragile or heat sensitive with cheap stickers. They will not align and that is why I re-ordered the master set. There is no question your sets have much better cut lines than home made and because the mask material you have is of much higher quality, they don't "raise" the paint lines, but what I have is garbage due to USPS. And you know darn well that I might have a tomorrow to wake up to. Can't wait so I made my own crappy masks that seem to work.


Again the supplemental mask set you ordered a month ago IS JUST FINE.

It has all of the masks for what you are working on now.


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## orbital drydock (Apr 23, 2013)

Start using your supplemental masks TODAY!!!

The window set you got with v1 should be just fine as well it will not shrink at all.


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## supercoolin (Jul 9, 2009)

orbital drydock said:


> Start using your supplemental masks TODAY!!!
> 
> The window set you got with v1 should be just fine as well it will not shrink at all.


Does not align with the panel edges, will order Aztec Dummy tomorrow for the saucer.


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## orbital drydock (Apr 23, 2013)

You have wasted more time trying to tear me apart. When you could have been working on your model already.

YOUR SUPPLEMENTAL SET ORDERED A MONTH AGO IS FINE!!!


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## orbital drydock (Apr 23, 2013)

supercoolin said:


> Does not align with the panel edges, will order Aztec Dummy tomorrow for the saucer.


What specifically doesn't align??

Continue work on the E-hull, like you started & use the supplemental mask set you have.

If you want to order Lou's masks, that's fine. He makes a good product.
However you will have to place at least half of his saucer masks by hand. His set combines both the positive & negative image into one set. I don't know if the other half will line up using the transfer tape.


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## supercoolin (Jul 9, 2009)

orbital drydock said:


> What specifically doesn't align??
> 
> Continue work on the E-hull, like you started & use the supplemental mask set you have.
> 
> ...


Thank you for that suggestion about Lou's masks, it will help.
Somehow, And I do believe that being expose to heat by USPS, has caused the masks to shrink lengthwise. there is a gap between each panel when you try to lay them on the hull. Because there are less than 1/32" paint lines all over the ship, these gaps will add lines that shouldn't be there and will make it look like a error on my part. I have researched the experts and they all tell you to use the masks within the week they were cut or they will start to pull apart at the cut lines. If you don't use them "fresh cut" , vaccum seal them and stick them in the refrigerator until you need them.


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## orbital drydock (Apr 23, 2013)

supercoolin said:


> Thank you for that suggestion about Lou's masks, it will help.
> Somehow, And I do believe that being expose to heat by USPS, has caused the masks to shrink lengthwise. there is a gap between each panel when you try to lay them on the hull. Because there are less than 1/32" paint lines all over the ship, these gaps will add lines that shouldn't be there and will make it look like a error on my part. I have researched the experts and they all tell you to use the masks within the week they were cut or they will start to pull apart at the cut lines. If you don't use them "fresh cut" , vaccum seal them and stick them in the refrigerator until you need them.


Please show pics of supplemental set. I will be able to tell the difference.


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## orbital drydock (Apr 23, 2013)

Also if you follow the 32pg v2 instructions. It shows you there are vertical cuts in the masks showing where the panel lines are. There are specific ways some of the masks have to be applied. You are wrapping a flat surface around a complex contour. There are call outs in the instructions on the masks that have to be applied starting from specific end, or manner.


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## supercoolin (Jul 9, 2009)

orbital drydock said:


> Also if you follow the 32pg v2 instructions. It shows you there are vertical cuts in the masks showing where the panel lines are. There are specific ways some of the masks have to be applied. You are wrapping a flat surface around a complex contour. There are call outs in the instructions on the masks that have to be applied starting from specific end, or manner.


I even tried applying them one panel at a time but there was always gaps and it got worse lengthwise, I gave up and chucked them. I scanned the color sketches in the TrekModeler's paint guide, used the software to stretch the drawing until it fit properly and have cut a separate mask for each color. The long single color section is curved in the TrekModeler's guide and the curving and will transfer to the mask, and fit. It does not work scanning the decal for the saucer because of the compound curves and the software doesn't allow you to "pull" a edge to compensate for the double compound curves of the saucer so, I have to get those masks somewhere quickly.

Thank you for all your suggestions, but I am really under the gun to get this model done.


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## orbital drydock (Apr 23, 2013)

supercoolin said:


> I even tried applying them one panel at a time but there was always gaps and it got worse lengthwise, I gave up and chucked them. I scanned the color sketches in the TrekModeler's paint guide, used the software to stretch the drawing until it fit properly and have cut a separate mask for each color. The long single color section is curved in the TrekModeler's guide and the curving and will transfer to the mask, and fit. It does not work scanning the decal for the saucer because of the compound curves and the software doesn't allow you to "pull" a edge to compensate for the double compound curves of the saucer so, I have to get those masks somewhere quickly.
> 
> Thank you for all your suggestions, but I am really under the gun to get this model done.


No... post pics of your damaged supplement set.

You threw away a supposedly damaged product you purchased 2mos ago & received 1mo ago, without trying to get any refund or replacement??

You can post everything else in the world you want. Then when I ask you to show proof of your damaged product, you are done.


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## orbital drydock (Apr 23, 2013)

This has been nothing but you dragging me through the mud for days


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## supercoolin (Jul 9, 2009)

orbital drydock said:


> No... post pics of your damaged supplement set.
> 
> You threw away a supposedly damaged product you purchased 2mos ago & received 1mo ago, without trying to get any refund or replacement??
> 
> You can post everything else in the world you want. Then when I ask you to show proof of your damaged product, you are done.


Why do you feel compelled to attack anyone that doesn't tow your line of thinking? USPS destroyed my 1st set of masks. I sent you almost $80.00 to replace them on July 3, 2015 because I knew you where NOT responsible for damaging them. It is August 9, 2015 and I still do not have replacements that I was willing to pay for on July 3, 2015, not once questioning why they were damaged and never claiming you were to blame they were damaged. Please do not turn this into another war again. The first set was damaged by USPS and I needed a replacement that only you could provide. That did not occur. Leave it alone and quit attacking me.

Have a great day


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## orbital drydock (Apr 23, 2013)

Seriously is there a moderator on this forum anymore. I know it's not who it was recently, somebody has to fill the shoes.


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## orbital drydock (Apr 23, 2013)

supercoolin said:


> Why do you feel compelled to attack anyone that doesn't tow your line of thinking? USPS destroyed my 1st set of masks. I sent you almost $80.00 to replace them on July 3, 2015 because I knew you where NOT responsible for damaging them. It is August 9, 2015 and I still do not have replacements that I was willing to pay for on July 3, 2015, not once questioning why they were damaged and never claiming you were to blame they were damaged. Please do not turn this into another war again. The first set was damaged by USPS and I needed a replacement that only you could provide. That did not occur. Leave it alone and quit attacking me.
> 
> Have a great day


You sent me $29+shipping in may for a v2 supplemental set.

Show proof that the supplemental set you just ordered is damaged.

You could have spent all of this time working yet this is what you did to me.


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## orbital drydock (Apr 23, 2013)

supercoolin said:


> .....It is August 9, 2015 and I still do not have replacements that I was willing to pay for on July 3, 2015....


First off you were refunded yesterday for that order.

Second there is no way in hell I would ever send a product to someone who as a method of vindication, has gone to someone who just stole from me to hurt my business & bashed me for 2 day across 2 forums.


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## supercoolin (Jul 9, 2009)

orbital drydock said:


> You sent me $29+shipping in may for a v2 supplemental set.
> 
> Show proof that the supplemental set you just ordered is damaged.
> 
> You could have spent all of this time working yet this is what you did to me.


Purchased in May, received end of June.

I immediately ordered a replacement Master Set and because the supplemental set was damaged and bad, never once said it was your fault or responsibility to replace.

No further comment needed.


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## orbital drydock (Apr 23, 2013)

supercoolin said:


> Purchased in May, received end of June.
> 
> I immediately ordered a replacement Master Set and because the supplemental set was damaged and bad, never once said it was your fault or responsibility to replace.
> 
> No further comment needed.


I don't believe it for a second. That everything both sets were damaged & you said nothing.


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## supercoolin (Jul 9, 2009)

orbital drydock said:


> First off you were refunded yesterday for that order.
> 
> Second there is no way in hell I would ever send a product to someone who as a method of vindication, has gone to someone who just stole from me to hurt my business & bashed me for 2 day across 2 forums.


Show me where I have bashed you on this forum. Show the full quote, not just parts to distort what I posted.

Wally allegedly stole from you, He helped me when I needed it, without hesitation, how does that preclude me from thanking him publicly? Because YOU don't like him?


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## orbital drydock (Apr 23, 2013)

supercoolin said:


> show me where i have bashed you on this forum. Show the full quote, not just parts to distort what i posted.
> 
> Wally allegedly stole from you, i helped me when i needed it, without hesitation, how does that preclude me from thanking him publicly? Because you don't like him?


what?!?!?


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## supercoolin (Jul 9, 2009)

orbital drydock said:


> I don't believe it for a second. That everything both sets were damaged & you said nothing.


Liar, you have emails sent through your website (which I cannot show copiees, that only you have) from me stating they were damaged and why I needed to order the full set.


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## orbital drydock (Apr 23, 2013)

supercoolin said:


> Liar, you have emails sent through your website (which I cannot show copiees, that only you have) from me stating they were damaged and why I needed to order the full set.


Alter all of this I don't believe anything you have ever sent. Post away all of your emails again

Here it comes, Liar, Thief, Deceiver.


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## supercoolin (Jul 9, 2009)

orbital drydock said:


> Alter all of this I don't believe anything you have ever sent. Post away all of your emails again
> 
> Here it comes, Liar, Thief, Deceiver.


Looking in the mirror at yourself? If lying and attacking me makes you feel better about yourself, then go for it... You have shown your true colors and it am done with you. I can see why Wally gave up fighting with you and let you say lies about him. You sit on the computer all day crying the pity party instead of servicing paying customers. Neither Wally, me or anyone you have attempted to disparage over the past 3 months is responsible for your failures and loss of business, it is your vindictive, abusive, cruel, lying behavior.

Signing off, hope everyone reads everything to see who this guy, whom we all once trusted, has turned into.


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## orbital drydock (Apr 23, 2013)

supercoolin said:


> Looking in the mirror at yourself? If lying and attacking me makes you feel better about yourself, then go for it... You have shown your true colors and it am done with you. I can see why Wally gave up fighting with you and let you say lies about him. You sit on the computer all day crying the pity party instead of servicing paying customers. Neither Wally, me or anyone you have attempted to disparage over the past 3 months is responsible for your failures and loss of business, it is your vindictive, abusive, cruel, lying behavior.
> 
> Signing off, hope everyone reads everything to see who this guy, whom we all once trusted, has turned into.


Yeah here it comes you repeatedly bashed me in just this manner for 9hs yesterday on theRPF.


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## Havok69 (Nov 3, 2012)

Supercoolin - seriously, just stop. You feel you were wronged, you got your refund. Give it a rest. Move on. You've got your workaround, use it and build your model.

Brett - I hope you can work through all the crap that has been thrown your way and come out stronger. If you do start up again, I'm sure there are many people here that are more than willing to purchase from you, myself included.


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## orbital drydock (Apr 23, 2013)

--------------


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## orbital drydock (Apr 23, 2013)

Done here as well

Peace folks it's been.... well it was fun


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## supercoolin (Jul 9, 2009)

Havok69 said:


> Supercoolin - seriously, just stop. You feel you were wronged, you got your refund. Give it a rest. Move on. You've got your workaround, use it and build your model.
> 
> Brett - I hope you can work through all the crap that has been thrown your way and come out stronger. If you do start up again, I'm sure there are many people here that are more than willing to purchase from you, myself included.


Havok69.

Seriously, when somebody flat distorts facts about you to justify their unethical behavior, do you just sit back and let it happen. That last rant quoting my posts fails to include the litany of attacks which prompted those posts. This all started when Brett lied to me over and over on shipping the 2nd set of masks I have purchased from him after using the same excuse the first time they were late. The war started when he threatened me about posting praise about help from someone who he claims stole from him. There are two sides to every story and Brett is a master of distorting everything but his version. Sadly he really believes his version.


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## orbital drydock (Apr 23, 2013)

supercoolin said:


> Havok69.
> 
> Seriously, when somebody flat distorts facts about you to justify their unethical behavior, do you just sit back and let it happen. That last rant quoting my posts fails to include the litany of attacks which prompted those posts. This all started when Brett lied to me over and over on shipping the 2nd set of masks I have purchased from him after using the same excuse the first time they were late. *The war started when he threatened me about posting praise about help from someone who he claims stole from him.* There are two sides to every story and Brett is a master of distorting everything but his version. Sadly he really believes his version.


Who is distorting facts????

When you continue to troll someone around after you have been refunded. No one should let it happen


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## orbital drydock (Apr 23, 2013)

Just going to attack every one on this thread, huh.....


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## orbital drydock (Apr 23, 2013)

Anyone who wants to or, has shown support in this thread, thank you & apologies.
I'm going to ask that no one else post in support of me in this thread. I know it's there.

Seriously folks thanks again for all of your support & business.
Who knows if I'll start back up? Right now probably not.

For now at least..... I'm out.


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

WOW...here to.

First Steven J Foster (you really should erase your personal info from the post at RPF). Not only does it put info out that folks don't need to know but the address and the health post are all marketers need to make your final weeks a special kind of hell, it also according to my neighbor who's a cop increases the chance your house being broken into.

Now I know your trolling the RPF and here so take a second and think about your actions today.

I also find it sad that your grandson's last days with you will be spent not working on the model you so wanted the masks for, but watching gramps follow some one around the internet trying to drum up support for his hatred of the man.


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## dalel2112 (Feb 9, 2014)

*Sorry this happened*



orbital drydock said:


> Anyone who wants to or, has shown support in this thread, thank you & apologies.
> I'm going to ask that no one else post in support of me in this thread. I know it's there.
> 
> Seriously folks thanks again for all of your support & business.
> ...



This is too bad. I just bought the refit model and was looking to purchase the set. I bought the JJprise set from OD. I had a problem with them and he helped me out without a problem. The least I can do is continue to buy and use his products. 
If, by chance, there is a way to get a 5 color set for the 1/350 refit, I would gladly purchase it.

Too bad this world is full of people who take advantage of others hard work.


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## TIEbomber1967 (May 21, 2012)

It is too bad.
I don't agree with what Steven J Foster did to Orbital Drydocks, but the fact that it went on as long as it did is partly Orbital Drydocks fault.
Yes, this is a criticism of Orbital Drydock. He has a thin skin, and that wil not serve you well in business.
When Mr. Ziz from Modular Models was being trolled here he didn't feed the troll, he explained what was happening with the business and with him personally and promised to do better, and he STAYED IN BUSINESS! He didn't rage quit. He didn't take his ball and go home. he didn't punish other people who are interested in his products by closing up shop.
In business you will NEVER make everyone happy. EVER! Even if you gave your product away for free, someone would find a reason to criticise you.
Orbital Drydock needs a thicker skin, that's all. Don't spend nine hours arguing with idiots online, go for a walk, pet the dog, call a friend, have some pie. But DON'T FEED THE TROLLS, it only encourages them!
People want your products, even Steven J Foster wanted your product until he got butt-hurt enough to start trolling. But closing the business after one disgruntled old man (who "claims" he's dying) picks a fight, is only punishing people who had nothing to do with the fight.

Orbital Drydock, please take this as it was meant, as contructive criticism. You had a legitimate complaint about someone stealing your designs, and when a supporter of that thief popped up you let it get to you, a little too much. When you close your business, the terrorists win. Wait... that's not quite right. Let's try that again, when you close your business, you're just handing a final victory to that old crab apple. Don't let him have it, let him go to his grave, unhappy, over paint masks, for plastic models (of all things).

Ultimately it's your business and you can do with it what you want. If it was just a side business that made you a few dollars more, then maybe you can do without the trouble. But if you enjoyed doing this, if you felt you were doing good for this hobby and helping people out (while making a few dollars more), then you just let someone take that from you. And it doesn't have to be that way.


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## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

I too feel it would be a pity if Brett closes up shop based on the posts of one dissatisfied customer. I have nothing but praise for his products. In my own case, Brett experienced a delay in getting out a set of 1/350 TOS Enterpise masks I had ordered. 
He was so apologetic he insisted on sending me a set of free masks to make up for the delay even though I told him it wasn't necessary. He asked me not to publicize this but I feel it is necessary now to demonstrate the great service he provides. 
Brett,
Don't penalize the rest of us who want your products because of one bad apple. It sounds like you've been going thru a lot of turmoil lately so take a little time off to regain your bearings and recharge your batteries. Then get back to work and DO NOT RESPOND TO ANY MORE INSULTS from trolls! That's what they feed on.


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## supercoolin (Jul 9, 2009)

Trekkriffic said:


> I too feel it would be a pity if Brett closes up shop based on the posts of one dissatisfied customer. I have nothing but praise for his products. In my own case, Brett experienced a delay in getting out a set of 1/350 TOS Enterpise masks I had ordered.
> He was so apologetic he insisted on sending me a set of free masks to make up for the delay even though I told him it wasn't necessary. He asked me not to publicize this but I feel it is necessary now to demonstrate the great service he provides.
> Brett,
> Don't penalize the rest of us who want your products because of one bad apple. It sounds like you've been going thru a lot of turmoil lately so take a little time off to regain your bearings and recharge your batteries. Then get back to work and DO NOT RESPOND TO ANY MORE INSULTS from trolls! That's what they feed on.





TIEbomber1967 said:


> It is too bad.
> I don't agree with what Steven J Foster did to Orbital Drydocks, but the fact that it went on as long as it did is partly Orbital Drydocks fault.
> Yes, this is a criticism of Orbital Drydock. He has a thin skin, and that wil not serve you well in business.
> When Mr. Ziz from Modular Models was being trolled here he didn't feed the troll, he explained what was happening with the business and with him personally and promised to do better, and he STAYED IN BUSINESS! He didn't rage quit. He didn't take his ball and go home. he didn't punish other people who are interested in his products by closing up shop.
> ...


Brett did not close his store because of me or what we went through on the net, and you have assumed this was my *only* dealing with him before, wrong. How many times in my posts, did I state without reservation, that he had the best quality product and I preferred them. Without going into details, Brett problems go way beyond what he has posted and if he wants to come clean that will be his choice, or downfall, with all the people that he has done business with and led on. Having to "troll" the forums was the only way I got him to respond to weeks of unanswered emails, how Brett went ballistic on me and others was insane, I was the one that got screwed over, not Brett.

BTW TIEbomber1967, I am friggin terminal, under 60, but not a "old crab apple", I do business with many in the modeling community, a GOOD friend of Wallys', and didn't know how he was attacked by Brett, until I went "trolling" to find Brett. I could have made that an issue and didn't.


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## Havok69 (Nov 3, 2012)




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## jheilman (Aug 30, 2001)

Warm Dutch Apple with a scoop of vanilla ice cream please. :thumbsup:


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## Proper2 (Dec 8, 2010)

Seems to me that we only know the tip of the iceberg that we have in view.


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## jheilman (Aug 30, 2001)

With no context other than what we have read here and at the RPF, I think we have two people who went a bit too far and events that should not have been displayed on a public forum. I fully realize one party felt wronged. I don't believe the wrong was vindictive or deliberate at the start. OS was going through a rough patch. But, the other party is going through a rougher patch and felt the need to lash out a bit. 

I am truly sorry for both you guys. You have some insurmountable odds against you. I just don't know if a modeling forum is the most appropriate place to work through those issues. I get that one party feels the other did not deliver and going public was his recourse. But it got too ugly and too personal and it needs to be less public now. All points have been made in detail and folks can make their judgements as they like.


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## orbital drydock (Apr 23, 2013)

------


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## orbital drydock (Apr 23, 2013)

supercoolin said:


> Brett did not close his store because of me or what we went through on the net, and you have assumed this was my *only* dealing with him before, wrong. How many times in my posts, did I state without reservation, that he had the best quality product and I preferred them. Without going into details, Brett problems go way beyond what he has posted and if he wants to come clean that will be his choice, or downfall, with all the people that he has done business with and led on. Having to "troll" the forums was the only way I got him to respond to weeks of unanswered emails, how Brett went ballistic on me and others was insane, I was the one that got screwed over, not Brett.
> 
> BTW TIEbomber1967, I am friggin terminal, under 60, but not a "old crab apple", I do business with many in the modeling community, a GOOD friend of Wallys', and didn't know how he was attacked by Brett, until I went "trolling" to find Brett. I could have made that an issue and didn't.


It's time to let it go, for both of us


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## orbital drydock (Apr 23, 2013)

What I see is two people who are very angry & hurt about their positions in life. Not at everyone else, but ourselves. I see us both taking it out on each other, instead of supporting each other. We are all here for one reason or another. We are all seeking hope where we may not have it. We are all seeking any message toward a tomorrow that's better not just for ourselves, for everyone. Sometimes we can all loose sight if that as I have done.

It all comes back to we are all human beings trying to provide & accept help when we are able.

Steven, I wish you could understand how hard it is for me to do this job anymore. For me this job was a symbol of hope for a future I no longer have & it has taken everything out of me. Please understand, I am sorry I was not able to provide for you. It is the last thing I ever wanted.


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## supercoolin (Jul 9, 2009)

orbital drydock said:


> What I see is two people who are very angry & hurt about their positions in life. Not at everyone else, but ourselves. I see us both taking it out on each other, instead of supporting each other. We are all here for one reason or another. We are all seeking hope where we may not have it. We are all seeking any message toward a tomorrow that's better not just for ourselves, for everyone. Sometimes we can all loose sight if that as I have done.
> 
> It all comes back to we are all human beings trying to provide & accept help when we are able.
> 
> Steven, I wish you could understand how hard it is for me to do this job anymore. For me this job was a symbol of hope for a future I no longer have & it has taken everything out of me. Please understand, I am sorry I was not able to provide for you. It is the last thing I ever wanted.


Brett,

Along with my prayers for my own healing, I have included you. We all loose if you walk away from helping the modeling community. I bought the other set and it came with high tack colored sticker vinyl. I was in desperation so I bought a full roll of Orafol Hi-flex, Sure-cuts-a-lot Pro software, weeded your shrunken decals, scanned them, stretched the images where they had pulled apart and corrected the pie pieces to match the actual saucer radius. I filled cut lines and made separate masks for each color so I didn't have to remove and replace cut sections for each color. Since I had purchased the masks from you originally and they were unusable, I didn't think it would be an issue to use them to make replacement masks. If this last stay in the hospital provides me with more time, I will purchase the DeBours 1/260 kit, enlarge the mask patterns, correct the interior cut lines to exact studio scale pictures, and then cut those myself.

Work is the best therapy I have for myself, so I don't think about my situation and depress out. I pray that you would try the same and get back to helping all of us. I would still buy your masks in a heart beat if they were available.

If you feel a response is necessary, please make it a personal message so we can take our dirty laundry out of the public eye. They have many other things to think about without feeling sorry for us, and our crappy attitudes. 


Brett, the best of luck, you are in my prayers.


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## J_Indy (Jan 28, 2013)

Nice to see this topic ended with 2 adults talking...

Completely off topic, but kind of serendipity, I happened to be looking for some supplements and ran across some vitamin B17 on Amzn. The "Verified Purchase" comments were interesting, so I looked up some vids on Youtube (the Sandi Rog one was interesting) and they make you go "hmmm...". It does have some history as being quackery, and I have no 1st hand knowledge of the stuff, so can't speak to it myself.

Good prayers to you and God Bless.


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## ClubTepes (Jul 31, 2002)

Well,

Now thats its obvious that there is no one in control around here, lets start talking politics and religion.


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## KUROK (Feb 2, 2004)

Havok69 said:


> If you do start up again, I'm sure there are many people here that are more than willing to purchase from you, myself included.


Me too. I'm a bit of a procrastinator and I'm hoping you open up for business again soon.
I recently watched some of your videos on youtube while I was using my treadmill. Good stuff!


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## CaptDistraction (Feb 1, 2005)

KUROK said:


> Me too. I'm a bit of a procrastinator and I'm hoping you open up for business again soon.
> I recently watched some of your videos on youtube while I was using my treadmill. Good stuff!


Ditto, I was among the last to get a purchase in before closing, but I hope he is able to continue supporting the community despite the hardships. There were definitely a few other things I had my eyes on in his store.


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## orbital drydock (Apr 23, 2013)

I'll be reopening in early Sept. after the next move.


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