# Open Letter to PL on diecast models



## Old_McDonald (Jul 5, 2002)

Dear PL,

As I stated in a previous thread, I really enjoyed the diecast batmobiles. I personally liked the fact they were pre-painted like so many of the metal bodied models emerging on the modeling scene. This is a welcome change from having to pay 100.00 for a diecast in 1/24 scale from the likes of Danbury and Franklin mint.

I'd like to pass along a request for your consideration. With the recent merger with RC, I'd like for you to consider using RC resources to possibly expand the diecast car model line you started with the PL Batmobiles. Stay with the 1/24 scale and see if you can convince RC to go along with the fantasy/scifi cars of the various movies/shows we've all enjoyed. RC seems to want to stay with muscle cars, race cars, etc. This would please their need to produce cars and satisfy our need for scifi/fantasy modeling

For starters, I'd ask for the following:

1) Green Hornet's Black Beauty
2) Joker's sedan from the movie
3) Corvette Summer's Corvette
4) Austin Power's Shaguar , yea baby!!
5) Elvira's Tbird
6) Of Course, the 1960's TV batmobile if they ever the the licensing worked out.

This is an open letter because I'm sure other fans of the Batmobile models will want to add their favorites for consideration.


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## Lloyd Collins (Sep 25, 2004)

I hate to be a ( fill in blank) but Pl is not here, Go to RC2 dot I DON'T CARE for suggestions.


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## Dave Hussey (Nov 20, 1998)

You may be right Lloyd, but if so, these threads are at worst annoying and at best harmless. 

But if anyone at RC2 _*is listening*_, why confine youself to cars? Why not a prepainted unassembled model of the Fantastic Voyage Proteus, my fave sci fi vehicle?!!

Huzz


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## Ignatz (Jun 20, 2000)

But, but NASCAR RULES!!!!!

Uh, okay. I'm not into auto racing, or cars for that matter. *BIG DIECAST FRANKIE! BIG DIECAST FRANKIE!*


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## Old_McDonald (Jul 5, 2002)

Lloyd,

as a wise man once said. "seek and ye shall find. Ask and ye might receive."

I've already written RC2. Since I don't know how they have structured themselves after buying PL, I figure it's best to send a request in every manner I can think of.
This open letter will at least be another bug in someone's ear to possibly make what we want to pay for and others to add their voice.. I can't imagine, for the life of me, why RC2 would buy PL and shut them down after spending so much money to obtain them. Yes, I know they wanted Johnny Lightning yada yada, but PL is still a source of income if RC2 can open their minds and listen to PL. Hey, if we don't speak up, RC may assume the worse. At least I can say I tried.:thumbsup:


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## JamesDFarrow (Sep 18, 1999)

Ignatz said:


> But, but NASCAR RULES!!!!!
> 
> Uh, okay. I'm not into auto racing, or cars for that matter. *BIG DIECAST FRANKIE! BIG DIECAST FRANKIE!*


Do you know how much that sucker would weigh? LOL!

James (who would buy one anyway - LOL!)


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

What's that RC2 address again? I want to write them and suggest they check the bboards once in a while. Anmd include a wish list, of course.


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## Brent Gair (Jun 26, 1999)

Old_McDonald said:


> Dear PL,
> 
> I really enjoyed the diecast batmobiles. I personally liked the fact they were pre-painted like so many of the metal bodied models emerging on the modeling scene.


And that highlights the comment I made in another thread about PL losing it's uniqueness.

I have no problems with your suggested choices. I have no problems with diecast vehicles.

Question: Does the world need another maker of diecast vehicles?

There are more diecast companies than I can shake a stick at. Diecasts are piled floor to ceiling at Toys R' Us. They go from 1/64 to 1/18 and everything in between. I even own a few big diecast cars myself.

You know what I wish for? I wish there was a company that would produce plastic kits that we could build and paint...kits of monsters, pop culture icons and esoteric sci-fi vehicles. I wish there was a company that made kits of Godzilla, The Phantom of the Opera, the Seaview and things like that. Now that would really be something. That would be unique.

In fact there used to be a company just like that. Last time I heard, they were making Trek models and had just sold out to RC2.


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## Old_McDonald (Jul 5, 2002)

John P said:


> What's that RC2 address again? I want to write them and suggest they check the bboards once in a while. Anmd include a wish list, of course.


*John P*. the email address for RC2 is [email protected].

*Brent,* while I agree that there are a lot of diecast makers and plastic model makers. They are basically all making the same thing. Look on the shelves and you'll find an infinite variety of mustangs, camaros, gto's, etc. 

There are very, very, very few models outside of the nascar, muscle car arena. There aren't even many models of George Barris's creations. What we need is a company like PL who can make those diecast models of things like the batmobiles, elvira mobile, etc.

Only Ertl has offered anything and it's that big 1:18 scale. I like 1/24


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## dreamer (Jan 1, 1970)

The 1/24 Batmobiles were kits, but they were produced and marketed under the Johnny Lightning branch of Playing Mantis. Given the direction RC2 took ERTL with diecasts, I would prefer that customer demand for more diecasts (and I do like the idea) please be made to JL, and not leave RC2 thinking we want PL to go that direction. The hope we're holding onto for PL is down to threads already as it is!


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## Lloyd Collins (Sep 25, 2004)

Dave Hussey said:


> You may be right Lloyd, but if so, these threads are at worst annoying and at best harmless.
> 
> But if anyone at RC2 _*is listening*_, why confine youself to cars? Why not a prepainted unassembled model of the Fantastic Voyage Proteus, my fave sci fi vehicle?!!
> 
> Huzz


I know, but if RC2 was checking this forum out they could have let us know they were here. Are questions for the most part have gone unanswered, except what Dave has known and told us. So I guess you can ask,at least we can wish/hope we might get what we want.

Lloyd :freak:


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

But what's their snail mail addy? Actual letters get more attention than email.


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## Gray-headed Art (Aug 16, 2002)

dreamer said:


> The 1/24 Batmobiles were kits, but they were produced and marketed under the Johnny Lightning branch of Playing Mantis. Given the direction RC2 took ERTL with diecasts, I would prefer that customer demand for more diecasts (and I do like the idea) please be made to JL, and not leave RC2 thinking we want PL to go that direction. The hope we're holding onto for PL is down to threads already as it is!


*Well now, for starters, Ertl was a diecast company well before there were even any significant plastic model kits--you knew that, right? Yup! Fred Ertl began doing diecast metal models of farm tractors in the late 1940's, and all along, diecast farm toys (and some very elaborate diecast scale models of farm equipment as well) have been Ertl's core business for almost 60 years and counting. American Muscle, Ertl's line of 1:18 scale cars goes back almost 20 years now. Of course, Ertl got into plastic models 8 years before they bought AMT (in 1982), and Ertl did buy MPC's line of Mack OTR and Offroad Truck kits in 1976, but still, those were model kit lines going into a company that has always been primarily diecast toys and miniatures. Polar Lights has always been, and continues as a brand name for plastic model kits, and I don't see that changing anytime soon--no more than McDonald's could ever become a brand for a chain of gas stations complete with the Golden Arches.*

*Now, for plastic kits to thrive, they need shelf exposure--and the way that happens is for the buyers (those people whose job it is to fill the shelves in the retail stores owned by their employers) to see that plastic model kits not only sell well, but perform better in their stores than other lines of toys or hobby stuff they might sell--if that happens, then more shelf space for the stuff that sells, less for the stuff that doesn't--that is a very plain and simple equation. It's a sales-driven business, folks!*

*Diecast models, primarily cars, have far outsold plastic model kits of the same subject for a good number of years now--I think the primary reason is that there are far more consumers out there who want the finished product without having to build it (either because of time, or worse, a deep-seated fear that if they bought the model kit, they'd not get it built, or if they did, they'd not be happy with the result). Also, we live in a world today where building plastic models is no longer THE thing to do for most of the population--unlike the 50's through the 70's, when virtually every red-blooded American boy at least gave this hobby a stab--because his buddies all were trying to build them. 40-50 years ago there simply were not the competing activities and interests that youngsters are presented with today. Back then, even in a large city, TV channels might have amounted to 7 or 8, no computers, no video games, no DVD's, and not all that many organized activities (sports teams & programs, music lessons ad nauseum) all the stuff that's going on out there to take up kids free time.*

*Every manufacturer, in every industry that I know of, has some formula for determining on a yearly basis how much capital (money) can reasonably be invested in new product--almost always a percentage of sales. This means that the higher the sales revenue (profitably of course!) for any given product line, the more money available for tooling up new products. New tooling in the model industry doesn't happen if things are in the tank--that's also a fact of the lives of these businesses--and that same fact extends to every area of manufacturing in some way.*

*So, if we want to see more model kits (and I am a model builder of some 50 years experience, who happens to design diecast cars for a living) then our community has to grow in number, and grow as a market--when that does happen, then new model kits follow, certainly in greater numbers.*

*Art*


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## Dave Hussey (Nov 20, 1998)

Essentially then, we have become an impatient culture that wants results NOW and does not want to work for it. That attitude permeates all aspects of our culture.

Its so sad.

Huzz


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## razorwyre1 (Jan 28, 2004)

Dave Hussey said:


> Essentially then, we have become an impatient culture that wants results NOW and does not want to work for it. That attitude permeates all aspects of our culture.
> 
> Its so sad.
> 
> Huzz


you said it brother.


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## ChrisW (Jan 1, 1970)

Thanks for the reasoned reply Art. Dave M has said essentially the same thing here for years now. It is simply a matter of business. Tom Lowe bet his own money on a venture that has paid off pretty well in some areas, not so well in others.


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## Gray-headed Art (Aug 16, 2002)

Dave Hussey said:


> Essentially then, we have become an impatient culture that wants results NOW and does not want to work for it. That attitude permeates all aspects of our culture.
> 
> Its so sad.
> 
> Huzz


*You know, I'd not go quite that far! Consider this: A great many buyers of diecast cars are modelers, or were at some time in their earlier lives.*

*Not everyone who ever attempted a model car (or any other model kit) went on to become an accomplished, or dedicated modeler--to have expected that would have been quite wrong. That would have been as improbable as believing that every kid who ever took piano lessons would go on to be another Van Cliburn, or every kid who ever swung a bat at the plate would be playing baseball today--those things just don't happen. However, just as with music, sports, or anything else we've all tried in our early years, we become spectators to most of it--and models are a pretty good indicator of that.*

*The very high popularity of built, finished diecast models (first cars, now aircraft, armor, even ships--saw a lot of this stuff at RCHTA last week) vis-a-vis plastic model kits does indicate, however, that the "spectators" do outnumber the players at this point--not my wish, but I think it's life--just as there are millions more who watch sports events yearly, as opposed to playing the game (be that game football, baseball, hockey, golf, motor racing) for whatever reasons. And, as long as retailers can point to their sales experience with diecast, they will continue to stock the stuff.*

*Art*


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## Old_McDonald (Jul 5, 2002)

Dave Hussey said:


> Essentially then, we have become an impatient culture that wants results NOW and does not want to work for it. That attitude permeates all aspects of our culture.
> 
> Its so sad.
> 
> Huzz


I agree with this, but in my case, It's the painting that makes it difficult for me to have the level of finish I like on my models. Some kits, like sci/fi and naval warships, are fairly easy to paint and get a good looking displayable model. But cars are something else. I can never get the grills, wheels, and interiors to look good enough for me(dashboards, etc.). I'm also always getting orange peel finished on my cars as well. Having a pre-painted metal body and pre-finished parts still give me the enjoyment of assembly without the frustration of trying to get a car model painted to look realistic. To me, the only thing more frustrating is painting figures to look lifelike.:freak:


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## A Taylor (Jan 1, 1970)

I like the sports metaphor, Art. 
Though I realize you are correct about the more diverse buffet of distractions available to today's consumers, I think it's hard to pin low model sales on that when the same distractions are available in Japan (hell, they INVENTED the video game market) and yet building models is a hobby practiced by many thousands of adults and children of both genders. The Japanese hobby market is mighty, and plastic kits (and resin and vinyl; they don't discriminate like Americans do - and btw, they invented and perfected the "garage kit" as well) play a very large part in overall sales.
I always shake my head whenever I hear model company reps trotting this line of reasoning out... frankly, if the industry had a clue as to how to market plastic kits, they'd be a booming business. 
The public will buy anything - Pokemon cards, Pet Rocks, Rubber singing fish plaques, Rubik's Cubes, Koosh balls, (need I continue?) - if it's marketed correctly. 
Sorry, while I know the public's attention span has deteriorated over the years, a company with a smart marketing department and reasonable budget should be able to focus it - it happens every day.
AT


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## Lloyd Collins (Sep 25, 2004)

Well said A Taylor. I was a collector of comics in the 90's,until money problems got me out,and they had ways of marketing their product. Remember the Death of Superman.
Now with superhero movies everywhere, people will be checking out the comics.

If you go to grocery stores,drug stores,book stores, and some unlikely places you see comics. But models, that is the problem. I go to Wally World all I see are cars and military models. Sci-Fi is not there. Even Toys R Us cut down. Hobby Lobby has mostly cars.

Die Cast cars are everywhere, even Dollar Stores. Maybe RC2 if they try to market Sci-FI models more then we might have some hope. I like to build model because you have the chance to make it yours. You might change the color, configuration, and even decals. But Die Cast is done,if I have one and someone else have one it is the same. Boring.


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## Gray-headed Art (Aug 16, 2002)

A Taylor said:


> I like the sports metaphor, Art.
> Though I realize you are correct about the more diverse buffet of distractions available to today's consumers, I think it's hard to pin low model sales on that when the same distractions are available in Japan (hell, they INVENTED the video game market) and yet building models is a hobby practiced by many thousands of adults and children of both genders. The Japanese hobby market is mighty, and plastic kits (and resin and vinyl; they don't discriminate like Americans do - and btw, they invented and perfected the "garage kit" as well) play a very large part in overall sales.
> I always shake my head whenever I hear model company reps trotting this line of reasoning out... frankly, if the industry had a clue as to how to market plastic kits, they'd be a booming business.
> The public will buy anything - Pokemon cards, Pet Rocks, Rubber singing fish plaques, Rubik's Cubes, Koosh balls, (need I continue?) - if it's marketed correctly.
> ...


You mention Japan. Keep in mind that the plastic model market in Japan has been much, much larger than in the US for the past 25-30 years or so--at one point, not all that long ago, Tamiya, for example was producing over 10,000,000 model kits per MONTH, with about 90% being sold in that country--we've not seen that kind of model kit market in this country in at least that length of time, perhaps longer.

The production of any consumer item is, necessarily, sales-driven. If consumers don't buy, then stores don't stock, their buyers don't buy (from the manufacturers), the manufacturers don't produce. And, all the marketing genius, marketing/advertising effort, the work of the sales staff to get product in the stores won't really counteract this fact of life in the biz.

It's always been a crap-shoot as to what model kits to introduce--that goes way, way back--some companies made good decisions and their brands are still with us, but most of the model companies that have ever existed (I believe at one point in the US there were something like 16 or 17 model kit companies, now filtered down to just two major producers, and both of them now are forced by the marketplace to produce overseas) are long-gone. 40-45 years ago, you could find plastic model kits on just about every street corner--no city or town (no matter how small the town also!) was truly immune to the invasion of styrene kits, they were in toy stores, toy departments, variety stores, drug stores, supermarkets (and your neighborhood grocery store!), hardware stores, gas stations(!), camera shops, office supply stores, even a number of florists had model kits, believe it or not! Plastic model kits were everywhere. That's just not true anymore. Back then, if it could be made in plastic, in kit form, kids and their parents would line up to buy them--no longer true either.

The model kit market is much, much smaller now than it was in the 60's, that is fact. However, the market as it is today, is much more dedicated I think--just look at your stash of kits and tell me you're not. And this leads to another factor: Most of us are adult builders--started off as kids way back when, but as kids, we bought the kit, slammed it together, then went back and bought the next one. Today, we tend to buy the kits, and buy some more, and then some more, but it often takes us weeks or months to finish just one--and more than a few of us have numerous unfinished projects (for whatever reason) sitting around. Eventually, I think, this catches up with us--we suddenly look at our own large piles of unbuilt--perhaps even unopened--model kits, and begin to ask "Why?, why am I doing this?" "Will I ever build all these?" So, we do tend to slow down our acquisitions. This, in the industry is called "clogging the shelves" or "warming the pegs"--it starts at our homes, your place and mine, then backs up the line, through the retail store, wholesale/warehouse, all the way back to the factory. How to counteract this? I wish I knew, and I'm sure that every employee (all the way up to the CEO!) of every model kit company as that same wish.

Art


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## DEWBERRY1964 (Mar 2, 2004)

"How to counteract this? I wish I knew, and I'm sure that every employee (all the way up to the CEO!) of every model kit company as that same wish."


I think that ONE way would for every member of this BB, and anyone in general who enjoys building models to do just that . BUILD the damn things, not research, not correct TINY flaws, or percieved " inaccuracies", especially when we are talking subjects that only exist as studio models, some of which are wildly different scales, sections of same, or meant as a close up model only and who ONLY reason for existence is to look a certain way on screen, NOT function or even be slavishly correct to one another, just built to look good on screen. Every model BB that I am a part of is affected the same, Scale models whatever subject, real or imagined. As adults we are all to worried about getting it "right" or "Correct". Just open the box, follow the directions, or not, but put glue to plastic, paint it, display it and MOVE ON. Remember what it feels like to FINISH a kit?be done with it? that satisfaction you had as a kid?. You can get it back if you don't worry about what anyone else says. And all the EXPERTS who criticize your kits should just shut the %$%$&* UP and GO AWAY.

build kits. Then buy another one of a subject that you like, build it, then so on and so on. BUILD BUILD BUILD. Dont stop and look on the net for pictures of it, buy a book about it, argue color!, just build the damn things. You cannot control the way companies work in ANY way other than with your wallet.


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## A Taylor (Jan 1, 1970)

Art-
Not to put too fine a point on it, but I think you just reinforced my argument.
The hobby is much bigger in Japan because they know how to make consumers want to buy model kits. Don't blame consumers if they don't want your product; take responsibility for making and marketing a product poorly. Take constructive criticism and learn something from it.
Making excuses that no one wants model kits isn't the way to sell more model kits, my friend. If Tamiya can make and sell 10 million kits a month for the much smaller Japanese market, why can't Polar Lights do half that much for the world market?
Because they never knew how to market their products properly.
I have a lot of respect for everyone at the company, not trying to insult anyone...
but there is a cause for every effect and it's not all that difficult to trace this one.
And it's not just PL with a problem; it's all the American kit manufacturers. For years, they've ignored the wishes of customers and conducted business the way they did it back in the 1950's and '60's.
So we buy Japanese kits.
Maybe they should hire a headhunter in Osaka...


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## beck (Oct 22, 2003)

true that's been one of PL's problems , getting their kits widely distributed . i'm hoping the new company's deeper pockets will get models out there in more locations .
hb


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## A Taylor (Jan 1, 1970)

Beck, the new company suffers from the same malady.


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## Old_McDonald (Jul 5, 2002)

beck said:


> true that's been one of PL's problems , getting their kits widely distributed . i'm hoping the new company's deeper pockets will get models out there in more locations .
> hb


Or at least more advertising. I'd never know about the new batmobile models had I not found them on the BB's.


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## beck (Oct 22, 2003)

more exposure would certainly help . i have people come by , look at my models and say " i never knew they made models of this stuff " . 
hb


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## Gray-headed Art (Aug 16, 2002)

A Taylor said:


> Art-
> Not to put too fine a point on it, but I think you just reinforced my argument.
> The hobby is much bigger in Japan because they know how to make consumers want to buy model kits. Don't blame consumers if they don't want your product; take responsibility for making and marketing a product poorly. Take constructive criticism and learn something from it.
> Making excuses that no one wants model kits isn't the way to sell more model kits, my friend. If Tamiya can make and sell 10 million kits a month for the much smaller Japanese market, why can't Polar Lights do half that much for the world market?
> ...


Taylor, 

Actually, it's not so much that the Japanese somehow have marketing down to the exact science, but rather it's more that Japan's domestic market is a totally different animal.

For starters, the Japanese have as much leisure time as we, so not much difference there. However, they have far fewer opportunities for a lot of the recreation we take for granted, and given the densely populated cities, they don't have all that many private homes with yards and landscaping to care for. Also, it's a lot harder to find activities there, such as golf courses, again due to the scarcity of available real estate.

Perhaps the biggest reason they have such high numbers of modelers is their cultural passion for things requiring lots and lots of intricate handwork--that's been one of their cultural things for centuries--so model building would naturally benefit from that.

Believe me, if American model companies could advertise, beyond the modeling magazines, they would--but advertizing even in the domestic modeling mags is expensive, and if a company goes outside of the modeling press to advertise, the costs are way, way up there in the stratosphere! A half-page in any of the Primedia car magazines, for example (where one might logically think a model car producer would like to be seen!) is several thousands of dollars per issue, and Primedia prefers that you buy on a contract basis (like a year at a time) rather than just drop an ad in once and a while. TV advertising is frightfully expensive--one could easily spend a whole year's advertising budget on just one commercial, on just one network, and that would be cable--broadcast networks are pretty much out of the question unless you are a Fortune 500 company.

This is a problem that every company in the hobby industry faces....the vast majority of them are small, or relatively small businesses, so advertizing budgets aren't all that big to begin with. Also, Japan, I believe, has no laws or regulations prohibiting the advertising of toy or hobby products on the same TV shows that they often are based on, but we sure do! There was a time in the US when companies could do that, but no more. There also was a time when smaller companies (Mattel is a very good example of that, back when they WERE a small company!) could put up TV commercials for their products 12 months out of the year--they called those then "TV Toys", but even that has greatly dimished over the years.

But, to say that somehow, some way, US model companies "don't have a clue" as to marketing, I believe is rather disingenuous to say the least--they do the best they can with the resources at hand.

Art


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## Dave Metzner (Jan 1, 1970)

Actually the Japanese model kit market is larger than the US market. for the reasons that Art just outlined.
Go check out the numbers of Gundam kits, Anime kits, assorted sci fi kits etc. available on HLJ.
The Bandai Gundam line lists some ridiculous number (several hundred) of items.
There are whole lines of sophisticated resin Formula one kits, decals and accessories that rarely get seen in the US. 
There are hundreds of anime figure kits that are also scarce here.

Tamiya , Bandai and Hasegawa are common in better hobbyshops in the US but Hasegawa has a whole line of Sci Fi kits that are almost never seen here.

Dave


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## A Taylor (Jan 1, 1970)

They don't have as much lawn to care for? That's why they build model kits?
Hm. Ok. Well, certainly something to ponder, Art.
I'm pretty sure Americans and Europeans have a long history of making intricate things with their hands as well as the Japanese, so I don't think that's a real factor.
Look guys, I like and respect you both, but this is just absurd.
To illustrate the point I'm trying to make, let's look at a contiguous situation: the US Comic Book market.
Like model kits, comics were giant sellers from 1950-1980 or so.
Like model kits, comics sales fell off in the late 1980's to early 1990's. Yes, I know there had been a slower, steady decline before that for both, but let's try and keep our frame of reference straightforward for this example.
Both kit manufacturers and comics publishers tried to spice the market up by trying new things - variant covers, pre-painted kits, etc. Neither market cared for the offered changes, sales continued to decline. 
Comic publishers and Kit manufacturers have apparently concluded that Americans just don't like comics and kits because of video games, cable tv, or lawn care. "This is why they no longer buy our products", they declare. "It's not our fault; how could it be? We offer the same products we've made since 1950 - they sold great then. Must be the American public."
Yet we kit builders and comic readers buy hundreds of millions of dollars worth of Japanese comics and kits every year. Why?
Because someone knows how to make/publish what we are interested in and how to market those goods to us.
Tokyopop is a great example of this. An American company that translates and publishes Japanese graphic novels for sale in book stores like Borders and Barnes and Noble. Even Wal Mart sells the books online. They make hundreds of millions of dollars every year selling to the AMERICAN public. Why? They are shrewd marketers.
To their credit, the US comic publishers are starting an advocacy group similar to the Ad Council or Dairy Council (Got Milk?). By pooling their resources, they may possibly pull some amount of market share back - if they are willing to change how they do things. I'm sure there must be a similar group for plastic model kit manufacturers, right?
If not, there should be - if so, they aren't doing a very good job.
For every example you site as to why Americans won't buy kits, I can site a corrollary as to why they'll buy anything that they're made to covet through effective marketing.
Fellows, we could argue this point for months, but it would do little good. I think we just have to disagree on this. 
Dinosaurs became extinct because they could not survive change. It can happen to the best of us.
AT


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Yes, but why did dinosaur KITS not survive?




:wave:


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## DinoMike (Jan 1, 1970)

John P said:


> Yes, but why did dinosaur KITS not survive? :wave:


Well, based on PL's 3 original dino kits... I'd say the sculpting killed them! 

(Sorry for beating that dead horse... but I had such high hopes for those when I heard about them... then when I saw what was released.... <sigh>)


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## Arronax (Apr 6, 1999)

John P said:


> Yes, but why did dinosaur KITS not survive?


A giant asteroid kit hit a model of the earth?

Jim


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## Lloyd Collins (Sep 25, 2004)

Arronax said:


> A giant asteroid kit hit a model of the earth?
> 
> Jim


The mysteries of life in danger again!:lol:


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## MangoMan (Jul 29, 1999)

A Taylor said:


> Yet we kit builders and comic readers buy *hundreds of millions of dollars* worth of Japanese comics and kits every year...
> 
> They make *hundreds of millions of dollars* every year selling to the AMERICAN public...
> AT


(Emphasis added by me)

Just out of curiosity, where did you get these figures? Not trying to bash, I really am curious.


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## Old_McDonald (Jul 5, 2002)

You guys really are burning the BB here. I hardly ever see such large posts as I see in this thread. Good thing we don't have a max size for a reply. Any of you putting your writing energy into letting RC, et. al. know what you want for die cast kits?

I emailed my list of wants.


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## A Taylor (Jan 1, 1970)

Arronax said:


> A giant asteroid kit hit a model of the earth?
> 
> Jim



Hehehe


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## A Taylor (Jan 1, 1970)

MangoMan said:


> (Emphasis added by me)
> 
> Just out of curiosity, where did you get these figures? Not trying to bash, I really am curious.


Hi Mango-
Comic book sales are posted monthly by Diamond. Pundits around the net break them down and compare them to Bookscan Manga sales numbers. I personally like http://www.comicbookresources.com but there are many sites which make these numbers available.
Hobby numbers are similarly gauged from trade magazines and associations. Toy numbers as well.
Personally, I run a website that imports Japanese kits and toys and I know what our numbers are, and have ongoing dialogue with our distributors.
Beyond that, I am working with a company that imports anime and manga for the US market. They light cigars with hundred dollar bills over there.
(Well, ok, that's an exaggeration... they use $50s.  )
The numbers aren't hard to find if you're looking for them!
AT


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## MangoMan (Jul 29, 1999)

Thanks for the info!


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