# lipo and li-ion are two different batterys?



## n3rd420

Are they the same?


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## JakeE

No, they are different. Lithium-ion are, I believe, cylindrical like NiMH cells and have a nominal voltage of 3.6V per cell.


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## khyron

JakeE's response is correct. Lithium-Ion batteries have been around longer, and you'll find them very widely deployed in older computer notebook battery packs for example. They are generally cylindrical and they have different characteristics than their newer progeny, Lithium-Polymer (which are on the whole considered more desirable in almost every way).

Among the Lithium Polymer or "lipo" batteries out there (used in everything from mp3 players to robots) there are also two types worth differentiating. First to evolve, and most common among what we call "lipo" are Lithium-Polymer cells which use Cobalt. Second to evolve and less common right now are Lithium-Polymer cells which use Manganese (note not Magnesium!). These two differ from each other less than Lithium-Polymer differs from Lithium-Ion in general, but it seems that the Manganese cells will eventually overtake the Cobalt ones as they appear (at least from what I've read) to have more desirable characteristics.

HTH!


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## n3rd420

i hear they both have 4.2v a cell but lipo has a better punch!


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## DynoMoHum

From what I've read... Technicaly speaking LiPoly are also actualy Lithium ION based technology. However generaly speaking LiION does refer to the cylinder type bateries, where LiPoly are the the ones in the Polymer pouch. I'm not saying they are the same, just that I think they both technicaly Lithium Ion chemistry.


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## LittleR/CGuy

thats right, but if you were thinking of getting li-pos(i don't know about li-ons), not all chargers can handel that. crazy long runtime though!


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## n3rd420

i aware of all this................... im asking the difference... not if i need a special charger.....


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## MrStyro

n3rd420 said:


> Are they the same?


 Hi,

I believe the answer to your question is: They are different!

As stated above by DynoMoHum both are based on the same type of chemistry. However, there are a lot of differences in the way how the batteries are manufactured and how they perform. 

For our hobby the key is that a lot of (not all though!!!) Lithium Polymer's now on the market are capable of handling higher discharge currents than any cylindrical Li-Ion. These LiPo's have been designed for very high discharge rates. If you look back in time, or at cheap LiPo's, you'll see that this was/is not always the case. Li-technology is coming form the mobile market and notebooks, PDA's, MP3 players or mobile phones simply don't need that high discharge rates.

Summary: Li-Ion may not work at all. In any case LiPo has the better punch.

khyron mentioned that there are two types of Li-Polymers and we should distinguish between batteries using Cobalt and the ones using Manganese. Unfortnately this is not the whole picture. Manufacturers typically use very complex mixtures of materials in their batteries. Many if not all consider these "recipies" proprietary so they won't tell us what they exactly use. 

Summary: So starting the Li-Co vs. Li-Mn discussion is very likely only a marketing trick. The discussion should be safe LiPo's vs. unsafe LiPo's!!!


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## guver

They're the same, but different. I consider them to be similar as all the nickle batts. I lump nickle batts into the same catagory because they act similar. Same with lithium.


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## MrStyro

*New RC-Car LiPo?*

There seems to be a new LiPo with a case dedicated to RC-cars see here 
I wonder if it'll work as they say.


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## khyron

MrStyro said:


> There seems to be a new LiPo with a case dedicated to RC-cars see here
> I wonder if it'll work as they say.


In addition to the new Team Orion li-po, there are also some very interesting developments coming out of http://www.a123racing.com/ who make a revolutionary li-ion. Different cells, different advantages and disadvantages, both worth researching!


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## DynoMoHum

Anyone considering the jump to LiION and/or LiPoly technology, should be aware that generaly speaking... these batteries will not last forever, and/or that the proformance level will decline with or without use... Perticularly in HOT condtions... It's a little hard to get good data on this, but based on some limited experiance with LiPoly (in a non RC application) and from reading up about this type of battery technology... You can see as much as a 10% decline in output over a one year period of time, even if you never use the battery...

ALso based on info I have from a brother-in-law who's heavily into RC planes, he tells me that highgly competitve RC plane racers, regularly replace there packs because the proformance drops off after a fairly finite number of uses...

So, based on what I know now... If you're expecting Lithium batteries to solve some of the proformance degredation problems that RC car racers see with NiMH cells... I think you should look deeper into this matter...

For now, I am not aware of much highly competitive RC racing that uses Lithium based cells... There may be some, but this area has not gotten nearly as much experiance as NiMH cells in racing have.

If your just playing around in the back yard and/or bashing, none of this is probably too much a concern... However just don't expect your Lithium batteries to last forever... Realisticly you might expect a few good years from a pack, and they will decline over time, with or without regular use.

Try and keep them realtively cool when in storage...


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