# 1/1000 USS Excelsior Update from Round 2



## tardis1916 (Mar 24, 2004)

Just came across this, looks pretty good.

http://www.collectormodel.com/amt/2...celsior-update/#sthash.Ri9eUsU5.Nx4ckeSc.dpbs


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## edge10 (Oct 19, 2013)

Looking very nice!


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## actias (May 19, 2003)

Watch Out! It might get cancelled! Lol! 
:devil:


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## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

I can't recall, is the Enterprise-B kept in production or is that now gone due to 'backdating' the tooling to this new (original but improved) form?


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## irishtrek (Sep 17, 2005)

Steve H said:


> I can't recall, is the Enterprise-B kept in production or is that now gone due to 'backdating' the tooling to this new (original but improved) form?


No 'back dating' involved, just all new replacement tooling for what was changed to make the E-B, and some parts sharing for both kits.


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## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

The changes to the secondary hull between this and the old kit are subtle but noticeable. Here's a comparison between the retool and my own build. The difference in the profile of the secondary hull no doubt affects the shape of the deflector dish opening when viewed bow on:

Excelsior-Round2 Retool by trekriffic, on Flickr
Excelsior 027 by trekriffic, on Flickr

Excelsior-Round2 Retool by trekriffic, on Flickr
Excelsior 028 by trekriffic, on Flickr


The retooled secondary appears thicker top to bottom like it should.


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## GSaum (May 26, 2005)

*Take my money!*

This is one kit I'm very excited for! So glad they went through and made the fixes. It's unfortunately that the limitations of styrene dictate that the neck be made of 2 pieces. That's one heck of a seam that makes me cringe when I think about it!


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## Owen E Oulton (Jan 6, 2012)

Waiting with 'bated breath. I can finally do the USS Odyssey NCC-2001 from my RPG campaign!


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## Dr. Brad (Oct 5, 1999)

I'm looking forward to this. I might actually build it!


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## electric indigo (Dec 21, 2011)

With the release just around the corner, take a look at the gorgeous decal sets (among other neat updates):

Star Trek Model Kits: U.S.S. Excelsior buildup | Collector Model


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## irishtrek (Sep 17, 2005)

Trekkriffic said:


> The changes to the secondary hull between this and the old kit are subtle but noticeable. Here's a comparison between the retool and my own build. The difference in the profile of the secondary hull no doubt affects the shape of the deflector dish opening when viewed bow on:
> 
> Excelsior-Round2 Retool by trekriffic, on Flickr
> Excelsior 027 by trekriffic, on Flickr
> ...


Except the image of the finished Excelsior is a bit smaller than the retooled build up.


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## charonjr (Mar 27, 2000)

Yippee!


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## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

irishtrek said:


> Except the image of the finished Excelsior is a bit smaller than the retooled build up.


True, but you can still look at the shape of the hull to see the differences even if the images are not the exact same size.
Granted, it does make it easier if they are close in size.


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## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

charonjr said:


> Yippee!


I hear ya! I am definitely getting this reissue. I'll build it as the NX-2000 this time. And I'll add lights 'cuz it looks so good lit up.


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## irishtrek (Sep 17, 2005)

Trekkriffic said:


> True, but you can still look at the shape of the hull to see the differences even if the images are not the exact same size.
> Granted, it does make it easier if they are close in size.


Both photos were taken from slightly different angles and the nacelles on the R2 build up are a bit longer than the finished build. But the only way to tell for sure would be to compare them side by side.


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## Hunk A Junk (Jan 28, 2013)

irishtrek said:


> Both photos were taken from slightly different angles and the nacelles on the R2 build up are a bit longer than the finished build. But the only way to tell for sure would be to compare them side by side.


Pretty sure Round2 has said that the nacelles haven't been modified from the original kit.

I think I'll be getting both this kit and the aztek decals. I wasn't thrilled with the original release, especially the misshaped secondary hull. I always wanted to do it right with lights, so this will be my chance.


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## charonjr (Mar 27, 2000)

I plan on getting 3: NX-2000, NCC-2000, and my version of the NCC-1701-B. That last was issued based on an earlier design of the Enterprise B, not what we saw on screen. Though close, it was off in a number of ways. 

The secondary hull cutout on the NCC-2000, it looks like some of the interior shapes were inverted in a dimensional sense. If that is the case, it will be fairly easy to correct.


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## Hunk A Junk (Jan 28, 2013)

Ok. Less than a week away on this one. Looking forward to seeing some sweet builds.


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## edge10 (Oct 19, 2013)

Hunk A Junk said:


> Ok. Less than a week away on this one. Looking forward to seeing some sweet builds.


Why do you say less than a week? Still no sign of it on the bay of e.


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## holt35 (Aug 15, 2013)

Ordered mine yesterday from Cult, he told me they are on the way and he should start shipping next Monday or Tuesday. Still no word on when the azteks will be out.


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## Buc (Jan 20, 1999)

Auto world has them up now as well.


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

I saw one on the shelf today at Ultimate Hobbies in Orange County.

I didn't buy it because the box was crushed. I'll wait for a better one.


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## edge10 (Oct 19, 2013)

Mark Twain out of St. Louis has one on the bay of e now.


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## ClubTepes (Jul 31, 2002)

charonjr said:


> I plan on getting 3: NX-2000, NCC-2000, and my version of the NCC-1701-B. That last was issued based on an earlier design of the Enterprise B, not what we saw on screen. Though close, it was off in a number of ways.
> 
> The secondary hull cutout on the NCC-2000, it looks like some of the interior shapes were inverted in a dimensional sense. If that is the case, it will be fairly easy to correct.


Can you elaborate on the differences that you mention?

On a personal note, I always thought that NCC-1701-A..... SHOULD have been an Excelsior class.
Based on the idea that a real Navy, after building a Nimitz class carrier, wouldn't go back and build an Essex class carrier.

And even so, the Enterprise 'B' depicted in 'Generations' wouldn't exhibit some traits of the 'D' (flaired secondary hull and impulse engines like those on the 'D') when those traits weren't depicted on the 'C'.

So, I may go totally rogue, and build a NCC-1701-A, using an Excelsior kit.
However, since there are some interesting parts on the 'B' kit, I may incorporate some of them.


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## ClubTepes (Jul 31, 2002)

GSaum said:


> This is one kit I'm very excited for! So glad they went through and made the fixes. It's unfortunately that the limitations of styrene dictate that the neck be made of 2 pieces. That's one heck of a seam that makes me cringe when I think about it!


Yes, I agree that the neck is hard to do well in styrene.

Hopefully, there is some talented person out there, who can do a correct one and put it up on Shapeways.


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## Hunk A Junk (Jan 28, 2013)

ClubTepes said:


> Yes, I agree that the neck is hard to do well in styrene.
> 
> Hopefully, there is some talented person out there, who can do a correct one and put it up on Shapeways.


I've been thinking about how to do the neck and I think I'm going to do it the same way I scratched the wing baffles on the Klingon Bird of Prey. I stacked multiple sheets of thin styrene sandwiched with double-stick tape to make a single block. I then used saws and the Dremel to cut and grind to the correct shape. Once I pulled the pieces apart and removed the tape, I had all the individual segments. For Excelsior, you'd just have to glue a thin spacer between each layer. An even better solution would be for Paulbo to etch the layers to get that super crisp fluted look, but that's a lot of layers. It would make a BIG sheet of etch.


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

Burbank House of Hobbies has a whole stack in this morning. Boxes are undamaged.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

There are 1-piece seamless resin necks available. I think Starship Modeler store has some.


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## charonjr (Mar 27, 2000)

Club, I will get back with you on the details on the 1701-B. The Excelsior undercut interior details are not inside out, the way I had thought, based on an earlier pic of Jaime's.


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## RMC (Aug 11, 2004)

*excelsior*

*Culttvman has the Excelsior in stock now !*


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## ClubTepes (Jul 31, 2002)

Hunk A Junk said:


> I've been thinking about how to do the neck and I think I'm going to do it the same way I scratched the wing baffles on the Klingon Bird of Prey. I stacked multiple sheets of thin styrene sandwiched with double-stick tape to make a single block. I then used saws and the Dremel to cut and grind to the correct shape. Once I pulled the pieces apart and removed the tape, I had all the individual segments. For Excelsior, you'd just have to glue a thin spacer between each layer. An even better solution would be for Paulbo to etch the layers to get that super crisp fluted look, but that's a lot of layers. It would make a BIG sheet of etch.


That is actually something that I started years ago when the Excelsior kit was first released.
It requires that process X2.
One for the outer veins.
Two for the spacers.

But then, after that, you have to cut out the indents, and add the detail.

Then there is the stacking of them.
You can either eyeball it or you have to create some kind of jig to ensure proper alignment.

I've also thought about the PE route.
While it would be good for the outer veins, the spacers are are thick, likely thicker than a single layer of brass.
Then your back to the jig idea, and then while the cutout areas wouldn't be a problem, the detail in there would need to be resin.
So now your into a multi-media kit that likely be $60.00+ dollars.
(Maybe Paul has already looked into all this).

A Shapeways offering may also be $60.00, but at least it would come ready to paint.


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## Hunk A Junk (Jan 28, 2013)

ClubTepes said:


> It requires that process X2.
> One for the outer veins.
> Two for the spacers.
> 
> ...


I agree, it would be two stacks. As you mention, the spacer stack would been to be made from a slightly thicker sheet stock.

For alignment, I'm thinking about drilling holes in the stacks before separating the layers to accommodate styrene tubes (like 1/4" to 1/2" diameter). The tubes would serve as alignment, but also wiring pass-throughs and to reduce the overall weight of the finished neck. In theory, once I glue the tubes to the lowest neck plate, I can then alternate thick and thin sheets until I get to the correct height.

I doubt I would pay $60 for a Shapeways neck. If I had my own 3D printer, this would be the perfect project, but...


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## irishtrek (Sep 17, 2005)

So guys, how thin would each layer need to be and how many layers on the studio model neck??


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## Hunk A Junk (Jan 28, 2013)

irishtrek said:


> So guys, how thin would each layer need to be and how many layers on the studio model neck??


I count 20 ribs in this image from Trekcore, but I may be off.

TrekCore Star Trek Movies Screencaps: Click image to close this window

Now that i look at that image, I'm not so sure the thickness between the rib/layers and the spacers is actually different. Each layer would likely be thicker than photoetch brass, but I think the thickness is consistent. How thick can brass be photoetched?

Here's another image. In this one I count 21 ribs/layers.

http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=55297&fullsize=1


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## holt35 (Aug 15, 2013)

Its 20 ribs on the studio model the second pictures is of the CGI model used in all the Nexus scene and has a lot of detail wrong.


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## Hunk A Junk (Jan 28, 2013)

holt35 said:


> Its 20 ribs on the studio model the second pictures is of the CGI model used in all the Nexus scene and has a lot of detail wrong.


I knew some of the Nexus shots had a CG ship, but wasn't sure whether the second picture was it or not. That makes sense.

So we're looking at 41 segments total (20 ribs and 21 spacers). So I guess the way to determine the rib thickness is to take the neck height dived by 41. Who has the neck measurements and who can do math! :grin2:


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## holt35 (Aug 15, 2013)

I have two of the after market necks and can pretty much tell you that who ever made it used .10 sheet plastic to make it. To whoever try's this good luck I tried years ago and didn't get to far.


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## irishtrek (Sep 17, 2005)

Actually that would be 21 ribs and 20 spacers. And that first link shows what looks to be ribs of slightly different thicknesses on the leading edge.


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## Zombie_61 (Apr 21, 2004)

irishtrek said:


> Actually that would be 21 ribs and 20 spacers. And that first link shows what looks to be ribs of slightly different thicknesses on the leading edge.


If you're replicating the CGI model, yes. If you're replicating the physical model, 20 ribs and 19 spacers.


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## Hunk A Junk (Jan 28, 2013)

irishtrek said:


> Actually that would be 21 ribs and 20 spacers. And that first link shows what looks to be ribs of slightly different thicknesses on the leading edge.


Wait. If there are 20 ribs on the physical model, and there are spacers at the top and bottom of the stack, then there should be 21 spacers total. I just counted on the screen grab and I counted 21 black indented lines from bottom to top. How am I miscounting?


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## irishtrek (Sep 17, 2005)

Hunk A Junk said:


> Wait. If there are 20 ribs on the physical model, and there are spacers at the top and bottom of the stack, then there should be 21 spacers total. I just counted on the screen grab and I counted 21 black indented lines from bottom to top. How am I miscounting?


You're right, I just took a look at an image of the studio model I have on my computer and counted the ribs and spacers. Also the indents have 6 ribs and 7 spacers. I went and measured the height off an AMT neck at 15mm and devided that by 41 and the thickness for each layer comes out to .36mm.


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## Hunk A Junk (Jan 28, 2013)

irishtrek said:


> You're right, I just took a look at an image of the studio model I have on my computer and counted the ribs and spacers. Also the indents have 6 ribs and 7 spacers. I went and measured the height off an AMT neck at 15mm and devided that by 41 and the thickness for each layer comes out to .36mm.


See? Math! :grin2: Evergreen offers sheet styrene at .38mm, which might be close enough for government work. Sheets

What's the thickness of average brass for photoetch? [I'm dreaming that there might ever be a photoetch set, but it's interesting to think about how one might work. You'd want the finished stack to be hollow, so every rib and spacer would look like an "O" and would need to be aligned on the etch sheet side by side. 41 pieces makes a big sheet of etch.]


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

Here are some photos of the re-released kit. I picked this up at Burbank House of Hobbies on Saturday, 9/10.


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## holt35 (Aug 15, 2013)

Guys I wouldn't use the neck on the AMT kit for any measurements. I started the new Excelsior yesterday and was working on the neck and can tell you it's to tall it has the right amount of ribs and spacers but the plastic is to thick and it makes the neck to tall. The ribs are also not right it has 5 above the indents and 15 below it should be 16 below and 4 above. I've also been comparing it to my after market neck and looking at pictures again and can tell you the after market neck is right. I actually removed one of the rib section on the top just so the neck would be the right height.


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

A few more:


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

...and the decals (or "deckles") for our UK brothers and sisters. 

Complete with wrinkle:


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

The "aztec" decals apparently aren't out, yet.

It was nice to see those horrific grid lines on the secondary hull are now gone. It was a pain having to sand those smooth on the original release. The bottom saucer is much more accurate, although the deflector grid lines are a bit soft, causing some 
"pillowing" or "tiling" around the edges. Still, much better than the original release!


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## Hunk A Junk (Jan 28, 2013)

holt35 said:


> Guys I wouldn't use the neck on the AMT kit for any measurements. I've also been comparing it to my after market neck and looking at pictures again and can tell you the after market neck is right. I actually removed one of the rib section on the top just so the neck would be the right height.


Which aftermarket neck are you using? You have any pics?


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## Daniel_B (Jun 28, 2016)

Is anyone going to provide some aztek painting masks for this puppy? Maybe they already exist?


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## Owen E Oulton (Jan 6, 2012)

I just ordered one from The Hobby House here in Ottawa. They're expecting them in next week. Price is $52.00 CDN - damned exchange rate!


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## Hunk A Junk (Jan 28, 2013)

Daniel_B said:


> Is anyone going to provide some aztek painting masks for this puppy? Maybe they already exist?


I'm sure someone does or will, but I'm tempted to use R2's aztec decals for the first time. The small scale and color details would take forever to mask and paint, and I'm not sure the results would be any better. I've never been a fan of covering entire models in big sheets of decals, but this time might be an exception. The build up on the R2 blog looks pretty sweet.


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## holt35 (Aug 15, 2013)

Hunk A Juck the after market neck I use can be found at Starship modeler under the other trek items section It's made by Misc kits but they are sold out right now. I though someone made Aztec masks for the Excelsior already I know I've seen them but can't find them now.


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

I think existing Aztec Masks would need to be revised some since Round 2 made some changes to the secondary hull


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## Hunk A Junk (Jan 28, 2013)

holt35 said:


> Hunk A Juck the after market neck I use can be found at Starship modeler under the other trek items section It's made by Misc kits but they are sold out right now.


I believe R2 has modified the lower saucer to include the scalloped indent where the neck meets the saucer section. If that's the case, will this aftermarket neck still fit?


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## holt35 (Aug 15, 2013)

Yes it fits, both of my models have the new lower saucer bottom in fact now that I think about it I'm not sure if it would fit on the old one or not because the saucer runs right into the neck and the ribs on the neck might keep it from sitting right.


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## irishtrek (Sep 17, 2005)

Went and grabbed a couple of images of the decals off the web and compared them to some HD screen grabs I saw on trek core and the window patterns on the left hand side of the lower hull do NOT match up to what was on the studio model. Come on R2, how hard can it be to study the images and get the window patterns correct?? R2 did the same goof when they released the E-B back a few years ago.


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## holt35 (Aug 15, 2013)

They never get the decals right if fact the secondary hulls windows are to big and there's not enough rows ether and some of the saucer windows are also to big, the small windows on the bottom of the saucer are the correct size. I've also discovered that the NX and NCC numbers are to big as are the numders on the back of the warp engines and they didn't put the red lines around the ships names so I'll be using after market decals on my kit. On the plus side they did make the Starfleet pennants the right size this time. :smile2:


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## ssgt-cheese (May 31, 2000)

*Sorry for stealing this thread*

I notice that the bridge for the nx version has the wrong shape. I seen on the net that it looks more like a tear dot shape than round.


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## edge10 (Oct 19, 2013)

holt35 said:


> They never get the decals right if fact the secondary hulls windows are to big and there's not enough rows ether and some of the saucer windows are also to big, the small windows on the bottom of the saucer are the correct size. I've also discovered that the NX and NCC numbers are to big as are the numders on the back of the warp engines and they didn't put the red lines around the ships names so I'll be using after market decals on my kit. On the plus side they did make the Starfleet pennants the right size this time. :smile2:


I think red lines around the ships name, is a TNG thing. TOS era ships don't have that feature:

http://scottmcgee.org/www.ex-astris-scientia.org/scans/christies/excelsior-christies4.jpg

http://scottmcgee.org/www.ex-astris-scientia.org/scans/christies/excelsior-christies3.jpg


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## irishtrek (Sep 17, 2005)

edge10 said:


> I think red lines around the ships name, is a TNG thing. TOS era ships don't have that feature:
> 
> http://scottmcgee.org/www.ex-astris-scientia.org/scans/christies/excelsior-christies4.jpg
> 
> http://scottmcgee.org/www.ex-astris-scientia.org/scans/christies/excelsior-christies3.jpg


Those are of the smaller model built after the other had been converted to the Enterprise-B, because I just took a look at my reference images with the Excelsior in space dock from STIV and I can clearly see red out lines on the name of the ship. 
As for the R2 decals not having the red no problem, back in the mid '90s a local hobby shop was selling after market decals for Star Trek models and I still have those that I bought and they are still good.


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## edge10 (Oct 19, 2013)

irishtrek said:


> Those are of the smaller model built after the other had been converted to the Enterprise-B, because I just took a look at my reference images with the Excelsior in space dock from STIV and I can clearly see red out lines on the name of the ship.
> As for the R2 decals not having the red no problem, back in the mid '90s a local hobby shop was selling after market decals for Star Trek models and I still have those that I bought and they are still good.


You are right, I stand (sit) corrected:

TrekCore Star Trek Movies Screencaps: Click image to close this window


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## chargr (May 9, 2005)

holt35 said:


> Guys I wouldn't use the neck on the AMT kit for any measurements. I started the new Excelsior yesterday and was working on the neck and can tell you it's to tall it has the right amount of ribs and spacers but the plastic is to thick and it makes the neck to tall. The ribs are also not right it has 5 above the indents and 15 below it should be 16 below and 4 above. I've also been comparing it to my after market neck and looking at pictures again and can tell you the after market neck is right. I actually removed one of the rib section on the top just so the neck would be the right height.


Nice to know it is right. I was starting to wonder if I'd screwed up something back when I mastered that neck part. 

I'll admit it isn't as accurate as it could be - the grooves should be a lot deeper. I made them not-so-deep after realizing that deep accurate grooves would cause problems with the life of the molds - which would drive up costs.



holt35 said:


> Yes it fits, both of my models have the new lower saucer bottom in fact now that I think about it I'm not sure if it would fit on the old one or not because the saucer runs right into the neck and the ribs on the neck might keep it from sitting right.


The resin neck will fit on the original Excelsior lower saucer part. It wasn't easy; but I wanted it to fit the original, inaccurate stock lower saucer part as well as the one I improved for the neck-bridge-lower saucer kit.


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## holt35 (Aug 15, 2013)

Chargr your after market neck rocks and really helps make the model 100 times better any chance your going to make more I know SSM is out of stock and with the new kit I sure they will be in demand. I ask because I noticed yesterday that the kits neck also has a little curve to it What I mean is when looking at it from the side it comes out farther in the middle then at the top and bottom ( it has a roundness to it) and it shouldn't.


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## chargr (May 9, 2005)

holt35 said:


> Chargr your after market neck rocks and really helps make the model 100 times better any chance your going to make more I know SSM is out of stock and with the new kit I sure they will be in demand. I ask because I noticed yesterday that the kits neck also has a little curve to it What I mean is when looking at it from the side it comes out farther in the middle then at the top and bottom ( it has a roundness to it) and it shouldn't.


Thank you for the compliments! I greatly appreciate it. :smile2:

There seem to be more and more things I've read about this new Excelsior kit that are wrong. It is if for every one thing Round2 fixed, they made something else wrong. :surprise:

Here is what you, and anyone else interested in obtaining the Misc Kits Excelsior/Ent-B neck, need to do: Pester John at the SSM store to get it restocked. I mastered the parts and loaned them to John for production. John, and I think Blappy, have done a much better job at making these aftermarket kits available to the modeling community than I ever could. Seriously. I'm willing to bet that John has ordered another run of the neck parts with the new Excelsior kit being released. The problem, from what I understand, is Blappy is so busy that it takes a while to get around to casting up a new batch. :frown2:


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## holt35 (Aug 15, 2013)

Thanks for the heads up I'll ask John about it. Your right about the new kit it has more detail but actually has more things wrong with it then the first AMT kit in fact I posted a list over on All Scale Trek of everything I knew of at the time and since then have found a few more things. What makes me made about all the mistakes is that I pointed a few of them out to the people at round 2 at the beginning of the year when they still had time to fix them and they replied to me but there reply was just a run around so I can only come to the conclusion that they don't care that much.


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## irishtrek (Sep 17, 2005)

holt35 said:


> Chargr your after market neck rocks and really helps make the model 100 times better any chance your going to make more I know SSM is out of stock and with the new kit I sure they will be in demand. I ask because I noticed yesterday that the kits neck also has a little curve to it What I mean is when looking at it from the side it comes out farther in the middle then at the top and bottom ( it has a roundness to it) and it shouldn't.


Are you referring to part #21??? If so the back of the neck does have a curve as seen in images of the studio model.


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## ClubTepes (Jul 31, 2002)

holt35 said:


> Thanks for the heads up I'll ask John about it. Your right about the new kit it has more detail but actually has more things wrong with it then the first AMT kit in fact I posted a list over on All Scale Trek of everything I knew of at the time and since then have found a few more things. What makes me made about all the mistakes is that I pointed a few of them out to the people at round 2 at the beginning of the year when they still had time to fix them and they replied to me but there reply was just a run around so I can only come to the conclusion that they don't care that much.


Well, I can certainly attest to it NOT being because they don't care.

I'd be very curious to see what all the issues that you mentioned were.

Can you post them or a link here?

Last week I laid out all four releases of the kit out and compared them part for part and noted and logged each change to the tooling.
Some changes were so subtle that a lot of people might not notice them.

I just have to get my notes typed up and maybe I'll post them.
I also took pictures of each and every part and noted the changes.


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## Hunk A Junk (Jan 28, 2013)

ClubTepes said:


> Last week I laid out all four releases of the kit out and compared them part for part and noted and logged each change to the tooling.
> Some changes were so subtle that a lot of people might not notice them.
> 
> I just have to get my notes typed up and maybe I'll post them.
> I also took pictures of each and every part and noted the changes.


Did you take pictures of these comparisons? I'd love to see that and your list. Not that I'm really interested in fueling a long-running "here's what's wrong with the kit and everyone should be mad" campaign, but it'd be nice to see what tweaks are required to authenticate my build a little more.

And for those who have the kit, pictures! Pictures with rulers and Pepsi cans.


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## holt35 (Aug 15, 2013)

Well first off let me say that I'm not posting any of this to make people mad at Round 2 I only want everyone to know about the problems so they can fix them if they want to make there model as accurate as can be.

Hey Irishtrek I'm not talking about the back of the neck that part is right I'm talking about the side parts take a good long look at them and you'll see a bubble shape, the middle of the neck on those parts sticks out farther then the top and bottom.


Clubtepes here's a link to the page my list is on. You can add the missing grid lines around the top saucer edge just before it slope's down to the list. I pointed this out to Round 2 and they told me they would be on the decal sheet along with the secondary hulls shield grid lines but as far as I can tell there are no shield grid lines anywhere. 

New R2 Exclesior - Page 4 - All Scale Trek


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## irishtrek (Sep 17, 2005)

Holt35, the NX bridge can be fixed 1 of 2 ways,
using the engraved line as a guide cut off the top and glue a piece of sheet styrene over the hole and sand to the proper shape or just make your own from scratch.
As for the missing grid lines on the secondary hull our own Starseeker back about 10 years ago had posted some drawings he had made of the Excelsior and they were extremely accurate including the window patterns, but these drawings were for the right hand side and not the left although he did do some for the left but they were not all that complete. I had printed out several copies of them for my own use and back a couple of years ago I took 1 of them into an Office Depot and had a copy made in reverse so as to use them as a template to make engraved lines on my old AMT Excelsior kits. And the reissued kit has a starting point for the horizontal lines, but you'd have to work up instead of down.


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## ClubTepes (Jul 31, 2002)

Hunk A Junk said:


> Did you take pictures of these comparisons? I'd love to see that and your list. Not that I'm really interested in fueling a long-running "here's what's wrong with the kit and everyone should be mad" campaign, but it'd be nice to see what tweaks are required to authenticate my build a little more.
> 
> And for those who have the kit, pictures! Pictures with rulers and Pepsi cans.


Yeah, I took a ton of pictures.
For example the saucer tops, I laid out all four in a row.
Then in some cases, took groups of two to more closely document the tweek of each part.

I could probably write a whole article from it, but don't know if people would be that interested.

Also, keep in mind that release 1) was Excelsior, release 2) was Ent 'B', release 3 was also Ent 'B' but with even more tweeks. And finally release 4) is the new improved Excelsior.

That poor kit has gone through more tweeks than what George Lucas did to Star Wars. But, each tweek IS for the better.

But to anyone who thinks that Round 2 didn't care about trying to get things right, I'll tell you right now, that Jamie and the gang that helps out on each kit does the best that they can, with the info that they have and what the previous tooling and budget will allow.

My documenting the changes is not meant to bash or find fault, but just to log the changes. There are others out there who I'm sure are much better versed in the details of the Excelsior.


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## Hunk A Junk (Jan 28, 2013)

ClubTepes said:


> Yeah, I took a ton of pictures.
> For example the saucer tops, I laid out all four in a row.
> Then in some cases, took groups of two to more closely document the tweek of each part.
> 
> I could probably write a whole article from it, but don't know if people would be that interested.


No, no one here would be interested. We've only had pages of discussion about how many layers are in the Excelsior's neck or whether there is an exact count of the ridges and grooves on the corrugated plastic surrounding the nacelle end caps on the TOS E. Nope, not interested at all. :nerd: 

OF COURSE WE'RE INTERESTED!!! Let's see the pictures. >



ClubTepes said:


> That poor kit has gone through more tweeks than what George Lucas did to Star Wars. But, each tweek IS for the better.


I'm one who embraces change (even in Star Wars), so bring it on!


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## chargr (May 9, 2005)

holt35 said:


> Thanks for the heads up I'll ask John about it. Your right about the new kit it has more detail but actually has more things wrong with it then the first AMT kit in fact I posted a list over on All Scale Trek of everything I knew of at the time and since then have found a few more things. What makes me made about all the mistakes is that I pointed a few of them out to the people at round 2 at the beginning of the year when they still had time to fix them and they replied to me but there reply was just a run around so I can only come to the conclusion that they don't care that much.


You're welcome! 

I see the SSM store is already sold out of these new Excelsior kits.

I understand it is frustrating to point things out and get the run-around. I also understand it costs money to re-engineer things and that budget constraints will dictate how much is done. My thought is that Round2 went with re-engineering the upper saucer part just enough to allow us to choose between NX or NCC versions and left the remaining inaccuracies for us to fix.

Speaking of inaccuracies: I recall there was a comprehensive list of things that needed to be fixed on the original Excelsior and Ent-B kits. I'll have to look around for it. I've ordered one of these newer Excelsior kits and, if I can locate that list, update the list of inaccuracies. There is a bunch of them.


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## holt35 (Aug 15, 2013)

Irishtrek thanks for the heads up on how to go about fixing the bridge and I was thinking about reworking the kit part but I already had an NX bridge that I made years ago so I went with that and it's already on and looks good to my eye. I've also added more detail to the cargo/shuttle bay area, reworked the kits neck, fixed the deflector trench and am now working the secondary hull.


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## irishtrek (Sep 17, 2005)

Holt35, if you want accurate window patterns take a good look at the windows where the neck meets the top of the secondary hull and compare that image to the decals that came with the kit, and the grid lines can also help to determine the correct window placements.


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## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

Just picked up this kit at my LHS today. Figure on waiting for the aztec decals to come out before starting it. That and I'm hoping for some photo-etch goodness from Paulbo mostly for the ventral hangar bay (?) greeblies that are missing from the kit. I'd also be up for ordering the aftermarket neck if SSM ever restocks it.Gonna build this as the NX-2000 since I already have my NCC-2000 on the shelf.


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## holt35 (Aug 15, 2013)

Irishtrek any chance you still have those drawing for the shield that you can post up?


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## irishtrek (Sep 17, 2005)

Yes I do still have them and I'll try and post them by Sunday. 
Also after studying the images of the secondary hull it looks like when they converted the Excelsior into the E-B the top of the secondary hull was left untouched and the refit still has the same window patterns as it did before the conversion. Also the top piece has different window patterns for each side.


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## holt35 (Aug 15, 2013)

Thank you sir Look forward to seeing them :grin2:


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## irishtrek (Sep 17, 2005)

*Sorry it took so long. Next time I'll try and post either smaller images or just links. Also many thanks to Starseeker for creating these pics back when and my neighbor as well who lives across the hall for helping me post these pics.*


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## holt35 (Aug 15, 2013)

Thanks for posting them. No problem on the time frame I've got a few weeks till I get to that point. One question however are all the lines part of the shield grid or just the dark ones because I'm seeing lighter lines on the drawings that I know are scribed into the model but I'm also seeing some that I'm not so sure about.


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## irishtrek (Sep 17, 2005)

I'm not exactly sure so you may want to take a good hard look at an image on Trek Core from ST III which shows the right hand side of Excelsior in space dock. TC also has a couple of decent images from ST VI of the left side.
Back when Starseeker first posted his drawings I was going to the library and printing them out and to make them the same size as the AMT kit I had to reduce the size of the printout by 60% and if I remember correctly I took these into Office Depot a couple of years ago and had them enlarged by the same amount.
There are also a couple of small differences between the left and right hand sides, like the horizontal line directly behind the forward torpedo tube on the right side is not there on the left side as well as a couple of verticle lines on the left just behind the deflector trench near the lower part of the hull. Other than that I believe all grid lines on both side are the same.


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## ClubTepes (Jul 31, 2002)

chargr said:


> Thank you for the compliments! I greatly appreciate it. :smile2:
> 
> There seem to be more and more things I've read about this new Excelsior kit that are wrong. It is if for every one thing Round2 fixed, they made something else wrong. :surprise:
> 
> Here is what you, and anyone else interested in obtaining the Misc Kits Excelsior/Ent-B neck, need to do: Pester John at the SSM store to get it restocked. I mastered the parts and loaned them to John for production. John, and I think Blappy, have done a much better job at making these aftermarket kits available to the modeling community than I ever could. Seriously. I'm willing to bet that John has ordered another run of the neck parts with the new Excelsior kit being released. The problem, from what I understand, is Blappy is so busy that it takes a while to get around to casting up a new batch. :frown2:


You mastered those parts?

Nice job, I have a set.
I've been contemplating using the saucer bottom on this new release.

The neck though, while REALLY nice - is the same height as the kits neck, right? There by making it too tall as well.
Any chance of doing a 'new' improved neck?

Something I'd love to see, is the lower sensor array assembly sold as a separate piece.


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## holt35 (Aug 15, 2013)

Clubtepes just so you know the aftermarket neck is not as tall as the kits and looks right. For the kits neck to be the right height you have to remove one rib and one indent but then you wont have the right amount of ribs on the neck but as long as no one counts them no ones going to know. The ribs on the kits neck are to thick which is why it's to tall.


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## holt35 (Aug 15, 2013)

Ok guys I could use a few opinions on how to go about putting the shield grid lines on the secondary hull. You see I wasn't going to widen it at first but decided to do it anyway because I just think it's wrong but instead of making it wider down the middle like my last two Excelsior class models I'm going to build out the sides so I can keep all the new detail down the middle of the new part. This means that if I scribe the shield grid on I'll be scribing into model putty which I don't think will turn out all that good.

So my though was to make very thin tape strips and tape the grid lines on and then give it four or five coats of primer then remove the tape and it should give me the shield grid lines I think. Has anyone tried this before or does anyone have a better idea ?


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## irishtrek (Sep 17, 2005)

Holt35, just so you know before you start the horizontal lines are about a 1/4 inch apart for 1000 scale.


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## holt35 (Aug 15, 2013)

I'll never get them perfect but if I can match what lines the kit already has I'll be happy with it, to bad no one makes tape that thin. 1/4 inch apart should be doable.


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## ClubTepes (Jul 31, 2002)

holt35 said:


> Ok guys I could use a few opinions on how to go about putting the shield grid lines on the secondary hull. You see I wasn't going to widen it at first but decided to do it anyway because I just think it's wrong but instead of making it wider down the middle like my last two Excelsior class models I'm going to build out the sides so I can keep all the new detail down the middle of the new part. This means that if I scribe the shield grid on I'll be scribing into model putty which I don't think will turn out all that good.
> 
> So my though was to make very thin tape strips and tape the grid lines on and then give it four or five coats of primer then remove the tape and it should give me the shield grid lines I think. Has anyone tried this before or does anyone have a better idea ?


I have to admit, I can't even picture what your talking about.


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## irishtrek (Sep 17, 2005)

holt35 said:


> I'll never get them perfect but if I can match what lines the kit already has I'll be happy with it, to bad no one makes tape that thin. 1/4 inch apart should be doable.


Doesn't Evergreen scale models make 1/4 inch wide strips .5 mm or even 1/4 mm thick??


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## holt35 (Aug 15, 2013)

irishtrek said:


> Doesn't Evergreen scale models make 1/4 inch wide strips .5 mm or even 1/4 mm thick??


I have no idea but I will be looking into it.


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## Owen E Oulton (Jan 6, 2012)

irishtrek said:


> Doesn't Evergreen scale models make 1/4 inch wide strips .5 mm or even 1/4 mm thick??


Yes, although they use Imperial rather than metric measurements, so they're .020" and .010". 1mm is .040" (or more exactly .03938"). If I'm not mistaken, they may even make 1/4" by .005" as well, which would be 1/8mm.


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## irishtrek (Sep 17, 2005)

Went to the local Hobby Town over a month ago and put this kit on hold for when it came in and had not heard anything so today I went out there again to see and they got my phone number wrong and had a couple of the Excelsior kits behind the counter and one of them had my name on it. I'm thinking of getting a second one or maybe even 2 more.

Back last winter I was just starting to back date an old AMT excelsior when R2 announced they were doing a new kit with all new tooling so I went and put my build on hold so now I'm going to use the extra pieces to make an accurate NCC build.

Any way while I was there I looked at the strips from Evergreen and they do make a 1/5 mm by a 1/4 inch strip.


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## holt35 (Aug 15, 2013)

Irishtrek you have me a little confused I'm talking about using painters tape to mask the shield grid lines and then using primer to build up the area around it. Are you guys talking about strips instead how would that work?


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## Hunk A Junk (Jan 28, 2013)

For the love of crumb cake, would someone please start a build-up and post pictures? :laugh:


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## irishtrek (Sep 17, 2005)

holt35 said:


> Irishtrek you have me a little confused I'm talking about using painters tape to mask the shield grid lines and then using primer to build up the area around it. Are you guys talking about strips instead how would that work?


If you're talking about grid lines I've used 1/4 inch wide plastic strip in the past, as well as 1/4 inch wide tape I picked up at a local hobby shop a few years ago.
I wish R2 had vertical grid lines molded into the secondary hull, it would have made it easier to do the horizontal lines as well as the windows.


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## holt35 (Aug 15, 2013)

Hunk A Junk said:


> For the love of crumb cake, would someone please start a build-up and post pictures? :laugh:



I started mine as soon as I got it but I lost the USB cord to my camera in the move last year I just ordered a new one and as soon as it comes in I'll start a build thread.


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## Owen E Oulton (Jan 6, 2012)

Just picked mine up and have been fondling the styrene. They've included some new clear pieces which cause me to think they might be slightly modifying the Enterprise-B kit as well, like small twin Impulse crystals and a new deflector, but keeping the old one for the E-B as well as the auxiliary Impulse exhausts for the E-B all on a single sprue. The new insert for the lower cargo bay is a lot better than the original. More impressions to come - have to get ready for tonight's IPMS meeting...


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## holt35 (Aug 15, 2013)

Yes with the changes to the top of the secondary hull they would have to include the new shuttle bay part and most of the other parts could be used with only a few small changes to the molds but I'm not sure how the lower cargo area would work. I hope they do bring the E-B back in the next few years with the changes.


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## irishtrek (Sep 17, 2005)

I'm not so sure they modified the top piece of the secondary hull again. For them to do so the space at the rear would need to be filled and recarved for the new piece which goes there and I'm sot sure if that's even possible, plus the top piece came on the same sprue as the secondary hull.
Also the height of the secondary hull is about a mm taller than the old one and the length is about 1-2 mms longer.


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## holt35 (Aug 15, 2013)

irishtrek said:


> I'm not so sure they modified the top piece of the secondary hull again. For them to do so the space at the rear would need to be filled and recarved for the new piece which goes there and I'm sot sure if that's even possible, plus the top piece came on the same sprue as the secondary hull.
> Also the height of the secondary hull is about a mm taller than the old one and the length is about 1-2 mms longer.


Which means they made a new top part so if they do repop the E-B it will be the same kit, lets just hope they do aztek decals next time.


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## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

Speaking of aztec decals, has anyone heard when Round 2 will have them available?


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## holt35 (Aug 15, 2013)

Trekkriffic said:


> Speaking of aztec decals, has anyone heard when Round 2 will have them available?


The SSM and Culttvman sites are both saying mid Oct so I'd say by the end of the mouth.


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## GSaum (May 26, 2005)

I picked up mine at HobbyTown USA last weekend. Man its a great model! I am very eager to build this but I'm not getting started until someone comes out with an aftermarket single-piece neck. I've always hated the 3-piece neck. There's just no way for me to replicate the screen-authenticity that I want (with my skills) using those 3 pieces. I'm hoping someone reads this and sees the demand for such a piece!!!


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

GSaum said:


> I picked up mine at HobbyTown USA last weekend. Man its a great model! I am very eager to build this but I'm not getting started until someone comes out with an aftermarket single-piece neck. I've always hated the 3-piece neck. There's just no way for me to replicate the screen-authenticity that I want (with my skills) using those 3 pieces. I'm hoping someone reads this and sees the demand for such a piece!!!


There was a great aftermarket neck for the old kit which is going to be adapted to fit this revised one.


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## chargr (May 9, 2005)

ClubTepes said:


> You mastered those parts?


Yes. I originally made them for my own Excelsior build. I decided to make them available after reading a plea from a modeler on this forum (I think it was this forum) wanting more accurate parts for the old AMT Excelsior kit - especially the neck. The neck I originally mastered has accurate, deep grooves, but I mastered another with not-so-deep grooves for the Misc Kits set due to issues with mold life, mold tears and cost of re-molding parts.



ClubTepes said:


> Nice job, I have a set.
> I've been contemplating using the saucer bottom on this new release.


I have not received my new Excelsior kit yet; but if the lower saucer part is the same as the one on the Ent-B re-release a few years back, then I'll use the Misc kits one. The re-engineered lower saucer from the Ent-B re-release is much better than the original one but it looks 'soft'.



ClubTepes said:


> The neck though, while REALLY nice - is the same height as the kits neck, right? There by making it too tall as well.
> Any chance of doing a 'new' improved neck?


Nope. I am aware of some individuals that are currently designing some necks that may be available on Shapeways eventually.



ClubTepes said:


> Something I'd love to see, is the lower sensor array assembly sold as a separate piece.


I had thought about doing a 'chop-n-drop' part back in '07 when I mastered the lower saucer, bridge and neck parts. And it would have been fairly easy to do too with the original Excelsior lower saucer part. But there was _so much_ wrong with the lower saucer part from the old Excelsior kit that it made more sense, for me anyway, to improve the whole part. I went through either 5 or 6 of those original lower saucer parts before I did one I was satisfied with. The panel line scribing was the toughest part.

chargr


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## Owen E Oulton (Jan 6, 2012)

One thing I have noticed is that the new NCC-2000 bridge module is way too narrow. The one moulded into the original release and the _Enterprise_-B is correct and much closer in size to the _Constitution_ refit. This is not a problem if you're doing the NX-2000 version (though some have expressed some disappointment with that module as well), but a major stumbling block if you're doing an NCC-2000... Luckily for me, I made some castings of the old version, so I'm modding the new module for my own use.


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## holt35 (Aug 15, 2013)

Owen E Oulton said:


> One thing I have noticed is that the new NCC-2000 bridge module is way too narrow. The one moulded into the original release and the _Enterprise_-B is correct and much closer in size to the _Constitution_ refit. This is not a problem if you're doing the NX-2000 version (though some have expressed some disappointment with that module as well), but a major stumbling block if you're doing an NCC-2000... Luckily for me, I made some castings of the old version, so I'm modding the new module for my own use.


Owen you have that backwards the new NCC bridge is more accurate then the bridge on the E-B or old Excelsior it was to round before, The studio model had a narrow bridge like that in ST6 but it's to narrow for the bridge set to fit inside if it was a real ship which is why I to like the more rounded on the old kit.


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## Owen E Oulton (Jan 6, 2012)

No, it's not more accurate. Going by photos of the shooting miniature where they do an NX/NCC comparison, the actual NCC bridge module is much closer in size and proportions to the older AMT version of the model, and has many details that the new piece is missing. On the impulse deck, the new transparent double impulse crystals are just wrong. The NCC Excelsior had dark grey domes with white radial ribbing rather than transparent crystals. I never thought I'd say it, but sometimes AMT got things just right. The new saucer top is much better, though, without the funky recesses in the thruster quadrants, and without the raised radial grid lines.


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## charonjr (Mar 27, 2000)

The gray domes are a translucent material that is lit from within:





Whether solid white or transparent, it is a good choice. The transparent crystals of the model can be made translucent/gray appearing. How, I'm not sure, but it is possible. Possibly a smoke color that Tamiya has?


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## chargr (May 9, 2005)

Get 'em while you can!!

https://starshipmodeler.biz/shop/in...replacement-neck-for-ertl-excelsiorent-b.html


chargr


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Owen E Oulton said:


> The NCC Excelsior had dark grey domes with white radial ribbing rather than transparent crystals.


If only someone would invent a substance of some kind that could be applied to clear plastic to make a solid color! Perhaps there's something behind all this useless paint I have on my workbench...


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## charonjr (Mar 27, 2000)

Depends on if you are planning on lighting it. If not, use whatever gray looks right to you. I did buy Tamiya Clear Smoke. Have not tried using it yet. Since the pieces are too small for me to sand into translucence, I am wondering if a controlled exposure to superglue fumes might work (CSI). A controlled craze.... I would want to do something like that so that it looks right lit and unlit. Ideas?


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

charonjr said:


> Depends on if you are planning on lighting it. If not, use whatever gray looks right to you. I did buy Tamiya Clear Smoke. Have not tried using it yet. Since the pieces are too small for me to sand into translucence, I am wondering if a controlled exposure to superglue fumes might work (CSI). A controlled craze.... I would want to do something like that so that it looks right lit and unlit. Ideas?


Try carefully brushing some clear lacquer thinner on the part.
Test it on some sprue first, of course.


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## ClubTepes (Jul 31, 2002)

There is a new batch of images of the Excelsior miniature, posted on Imgur only a couple of hours ago.

U.S.S. Excelsior Miniature - Album on Imgur

I haven't seen 99% of these before.

A must for anyones reference library.


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## electric indigo (Dec 21, 2011)

Amazing pics, thanks for posting! And I love Imgur's ZIP download.


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## ClubTepes (Jul 31, 2002)

electric indigo said:


> Amazing pics, thanks for posting! And I love Imgur's ZIP download.


How does THAT work??


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## irishtrek (Sep 17, 2005)

Great find there ClubTepes!! I snagged several for my reference album.


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## robn1 (Nov 17, 2012)

ClubTepes said:


> How does THAT work??


Click the three dots at the bottom of the post.


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## holt35 (Aug 15, 2013)

Great find really clears up a few question regarding colors used on the model. Did anyone else notice the blue under the impulse engines it almost looks like the teal color used on the Enterprise-B and doesn't seem to be anywhere else on the model or is it the same color as the secondary hull stripe just seen from a different angle.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

:surprise:!!!!!


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

ClubTepes said:


> There is a new batch of images of the Excelsior miniature, posted on Imgur only a couple of hours ago.
> 
> U.S.S. Excelsior Miniature - Album on Imgur
> 
> ...


Here is minacity's Original Defiant Miniature file as well.
Original Defiant Miniature from "Deep Space Nine" - Album on Imgur

and his Galactica Shuttle Miniature folder
Galactica Shuttle Miniature - Album on Imgur


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## goose814 (Feb 26, 2002)

holt35 said:


> Great find really clears up a few question regarding colors used on the model. Did anyone else notice the blue under the impulse engines it almost looks like the teal color used on the Enterprise-B and doesn't seem to be anywhere else on the model or is it the same color as the secondary hull stripe just seen from a different angle.


It looks to me like it's the same darker blue color as what is in the recesses on the bottom of the secondary hull forward of the photon torpedo launchers.
http://i.imgur.com/fW05fTX.jpg

I'm also glad to see clearer photos that show the area around the bridge just inboard of the phasers are a grey pattern instead of yellow/gold. I've always thought it was a silver/grey but I think Greg Jein's Excelsior model, which has it in yellow/gold may have skewed people's opinion of what color it was. Almost all the aftermarket decals I've seen are yellow/gold, including Polar Lights' new ones.
http://i.imgur.com/TWzMGfW.jpg


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## holt35 (Aug 15, 2013)

goose814 said:


> It looks to me like it's the same darker blue color as what is in the recesses on the bottom of the secondary hull forward of the photon torpedo launchers.
> http://i.imgur.com/fW05fTX.jpg
> 
> I'm also glad to see clearer photos that show the area around the bridge just inboard of the phasers are a grey pattern instead of yellow/gold. I've always thought it was a silver/grey but I think Greg Jein's Excelsior model, which has it in yellow/gold may have skewed people's opinion of what color it was. Almost all the aftermarket decals I've seen are yellow/gold, including Polar Lights' new ones.
> http://i.imgur.com/TWzMGfW.jpg


Good eye's and I think your correct about the dark blue. It also looks like it's the same dark blue that they had around the NX bridge not the lighter blue but the area that was a triangle in the front. So I'm counting four different blues on the model? feel free to correct me if you see something I don't.


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## goose814 (Feb 26, 2002)

holt35 said:


> Good eye's and I think your correct about the dark blue. It also looks like it's the same dark blue that they had around the NX bridge not the lighter blue but the area that was a triangle in the front. So I'm counting four different blues on the model? feel free to correct me if you see something I don't.


Nice catch. I completely overlooked the dark blue area around the bridge. I haven't had a chance to really look over the different blue shades yet.

After looking at the photos more, I've noticed some interesting things. First, there are photos of the NX and of the NCC, but both groups contain photos from different time periods. The NX has photos of it as the USS Hood NCC-2541 and the upper saucer as the USS Repulse NCC-2544. There are also some photos of it being worked on but not clear if it's any of these versions or the NX Excelsior. We can tell it's not the NCC by the original observation windows in the back: http://i.imgur.com/UxRXDe1.jpg

The majority of the NCC photos are grouped into outdoor and indoor shots. It looks like the outdoor shots are from the same group. If you look closely it's named the USS Melbourne NCC-62043 on top of the saucer and USS Excelsior NCC-2000 on the bottom: http://i.imgur.com/VSTLHX0.jpg and http://i.imgur.com/b2yMY4M.jpg One of the interesting details are the two shuttles docked in the cargo bay(?) http://i.imgur.com/VertHYQ.jpg

The indoor shots show it in preparation of being modified into the NCC-B. Here it is prior to disassembly: http://i.imgur.com/MpBrXSt.jpg You can see the drawings and artist renderings of the B on the table. In front of the model looks like another saucer and to the right of the model, partly obscured, looks to be another impulse engine section.

In the shots where it is disassembled, we can see the lower secondary hull already modified into the NCC-B: http://i.imgur.com/VKl61yz.jpg and http://i.imgur.com/7oZqCGt.jpg and http://i.imgur.com/fehwS5a.jpg I'm sure there are other details that I've overlooked. If anyone sees anything else let the rest of us know.


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## holt35 (Aug 15, 2013)

goose814 said:


> Nice catch. I completely overlooked the dark blue area around the bridge. I haven't had a chance to really look over the different blue shades yet.
> 
> After looking at the photos more, I've noticed some interesting things. First, there are photos of the NX and of the NCC, but both groups contain photos from different time periods. The NX has photos of it as the USS Hood NCC-2541 and the upper saucer as the USS Repulse NCC-2544. There are also some photos of it being worked on but not clear if it's any of these versions or the NX Excelsior. We can tell it's not the NCC by the original observation windows in the back: http://i.imgur.com/UxRXDe1.jpg
> 
> ...


Actually years ago Bill George the guy who designed the Excelsior posted on the TrekBBS that the bottom of the secondary hull and the top of the saucer were in fact new parts and not modified at all he said that he kept the original parts for himself. 

One more thing to notice is the fact that the model looks like it had a little paint work done to it before they made ST6 because the bottom blue panels on the sec hull are not the same blue as the NX pics. If you look at all the pictures close you'll see that the original blue was a lighter color ( looks like Light Ghost Grey to my eyes) and the fan tail detail was the same color but if you look at the NCC pics you'll see that the lower detail is a darker blue about the same color as the secondary hull stripe but the fan tail detail is still the lighter blue.


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## charonjr (Mar 27, 2000)

Is there anyway to access the other files on imgur about the Excelsior? 

EDIT: Never mind, found the link on page 8! These are gonna be marvelous for my 3D build!


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## ClubTepes (Jul 31, 2002)

charonjr said:


> Is there anyway to access the other files on imgur about the Excelsior?
> 
> EDIT: Never mind, found the link on page 8! These are gonna be marvelous for my 3D build!


Page 8?

I missed something.
Got a link anyway?


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## edge10 (Oct 19, 2013)

ClubTepes said:


> Page 8?
> 
> I missed something.
> Got a link anyway?


If he's like me, and I know I am, he missed the 'Load 58 more images button'. I could be wrong. I missed it and was wondering where all these other photos were coming from. I went back to the page and finally saw it. :surprise:


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## charonjr (Mar 27, 2000)

ClubTepes said:


> There is a new batch of images of the Excelsior miniature, posted on Imgur only a couple of hours ago.
> 
> U.S.S. Excelsior Miniature - Album on Imgur
> 
> ...


This link takes you to the imgur page. There are a number of photos of Excelsior, at the bottom of which is "load 58 more images" button. I didn't see the zip link, but I was too busy downloading the images individually.

Regarding the 3D build, I have been working on a detail Excelsior mesh for 16 years. I used any images I could get ahold of, including the Christie's pics taken by visitors there. These imgur shots show precise detail that will help me finish it.


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## goose814 (Feb 26, 2002)

holt35 said:


> Actually years ago Bill George the guy who designed the Excelsior posted on the TrekBBS that the bottom of the secondary hull and the top of the saucer were in fact new parts and not modified at all he said that he kept the original parts for himself.


That sounds really interesting. I wonder if the photos of the top saucer as the USS Repulse and the lower hull sitting on the floor are from his collection. I'd love it if he could post more photos of the upper saucer, especially the back side of the bridge module and impulse crystal area.


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## ClubTepes (Jul 31, 2002)

charonjr said:


> This link takes you to the imgur page. There are a number of photos of Excelsior, at the bottom of which is "load 58 more images" button. I didn't see the zip link, but I was too busy downloading the images individually.
> 
> Regarding the 3D build, I have been working on a detail Excelsior mesh for 16 years. I used any images I could get ahold of, including the Christie's pics taken by visitors there. These imgur shots show precise detail that will help me finish it.


Would LOVE to see any renders you have of your CG 'Ex'.


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## WarpCore Breach (Apr 27, 2005)

Incredible link!

Great pics of a great lady of a starship; these are must-haves for anyone wanting to do detailing on their models!


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## charonjr (Mar 27, 2000)

I don't know what is wrong with Hobby Talk's image uploader. I keep getting "invalid image file", even though the images are within the file type and size caps!
I will get something up on Photobucket and link them in.


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## charonjr (Mar 27, 2000)

David Christy's (charonjr) Story | Photobucket

This link will take you to the renders done so far over the years. The Vader domes on the engines are oversized and meant as place holders. The secondary hull still needs work, which is why I am happy at the new images being released!


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## crowe-t (Jul 30, 2010)

I still haven't picked up one of the new Excelsior kits yet. So far it looks good in the pictures.

How is the new lower secondary hull part?

What work needs to be done on the secondary hull? Does it need to be widened like the original kit's hull?


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## irishtrek (Sep 17, 2005)

crowe-t said:


> I still haven't picked up one of the new Excelsior kits yet. So far it looks good in the pictures.
> 
> How is the new lower secondary hull part?
> 
> What work needs to be done on the secondary hull? Does it need to be widened like the original kit's hull?


The secondary hull has no grid lines so you'll have to add them your self, along with the windows seeing as how R2 failed to do the window decals wrong, wrong pattern that is and the windows on the studio model were different on both sides.


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## crowe-t (Jul 30, 2010)

Does it need to be widened like the original kit's hull?


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## irishtrek (Sep 17, 2005)

crowe-t said:


> Does it need to be widened like the original kit's hull?


I that depends on the person who's building the kit.
As for size difference the new one is a tad bit longer and taller as well but at the same time it's the same width as the old mold.


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## holt35 (Aug 15, 2013)

Yes you need to widen it or at least I did. After looking at the picture I'm still convinced that it's not wide enough and I don't care what Round2 says.

I made a long post detailing how I did it but I forgot to log in and I couldn't save it. If you have any questions feel free to ask but basically the new kit has just as many problems as the original they are just different ones then the old kit.


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## crowe-t (Jul 30, 2010)

holt35 said:


> Yes you need to widen it or at least I did. After looking at the picture I'm still convinced that it's not wide enough and I don't care what Round2 says.
> 
> I made a long post detailing how I did it but I forgot to log in and I couldn't save it. If you have any questions feel free to ask but basically the new kit has just as many problems as the original they are just different ones then the old kit.


Does this new R2 Excelsior's lower hull still need some more depth added? I've seen builds that had styrene sheet added to the bottom of the top deck plate.


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## holt35 (Aug 15, 2013)

crowe-t said:


> Does this new R2 Excelsior's lower hull still need some more depth added? I've seen builds that had styrene sheet added to the bottom of the top deck plate.



I think it does or at least I did on mine. I did it by sanding the front step down to match the hull shape and then adding a .60 sheet plastic to replace it so the sheet plastic becomes the blue stripe. I've never seen one that had the plastic added to the top plate who did that? I'd like to see what it looks like.


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## crowe-t (Jul 30, 2010)

holt35 said:


> I think it does or at least I did on mine. I did it by sanding the front step down to match the hull shape and then adding a .60 sheet plastic to replace it so the sheet plastic becomes the blue stripe. I've never seen one that had the plastic added to the top plate who did that? I'd like to see what it looks like.


PM sent with pictures showing the plastic added to the top plate.


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## crowe-t (Jul 30, 2010)

holt35 said:


> Hunk A Juck the after market neck I use can be found at Starship modeler under the other trek items section It's made by Misc kits but they are sold out right now. I though someone made Aztec masks for the Excelsior already I know I've seen them but can't find them now.


Is the resin aftermarket neck solid or hollow?


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## Zombie_61 (Apr 21, 2004)

crowe-t said:


> Is the resin aftermarket neck solid or hollow?


Based on the photo on the Starship Modeler Store website, I'd say it's solid. And the description says only, "One piece resin casting", so no help there.


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## crowe-t (Jul 30, 2010)

Zombie_61 said:


> Based on the photo on the Starship Modeler Store website, I'd say it's solid. And the description says only, "One piece resin casting", so no help there.


Hey Al, It's good to see you here. 

I just sent chargr(who mastered the replacement neck) a PM to ask him.

Mike.


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## holt35 (Aug 15, 2013)

Thanks for the pics Crowe-t and guys I can tell you for sure that the neck is a one piece cast and it is worth the price. I've had three of them over the years and wouldn't build an Excelsior class model without one, the kits neck is a joke compared to the resin neck but you will also have to pick up the neck insert parts from DLM or make your own since the cut outs in the front don't have any detail.


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## crowe-t (Jul 30, 2010)

holt35 said:


> Thanks for the pics Crowe-t and guys I can tell you for sure that the neck is a one piece cast and it is worth the price. I've had three of them over the years and wouldn't build an Excelsior class model without one, the kits neck is a joke compared to the resin neck but you will also have to pick up the neck insert parts from DLM or make your own since the cut outs in the front don't have any detail.


If the replacement neck is indeed a solid casting then it won't be good for lighting. Maybe it can be drilled out???


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## holt35 (Aug 15, 2013)

crowe-t said:


> If the replacement neck is indeed a solid casting then it won't be good for lighting. Maybe it can be drilled out???


I'm guessing your taking about the problem of running wires though the neck since there's on lights in the neck itself. I'd say you can for sure drill a hole in the center to run some wires though without any real problems it's pretty solid just be careful not to drop it the fins are pretty thin.


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