# O.T. Is he really that good?



## smalltime (Jun 3, 2006)

I really don't want to think this way, but as I watch 'ol 5 time run away from the field at Kansas, I can't help but think there could be something rotten in NASCAR.

It looks for all the world like this guy is going to win 6 in a row. He's ruining the series as far as fan base goes. Just look in the stands at places like Atlanta, and Charlote, and Indy. 

Tons of empty seats, ratings are down. We all know what's going to happen. Jimmy will win again.

Could Chad and Jimmy be cheating? They've been caught numerous times (four or five that I can think of).

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...-knaus-the-history-of-nascars-grayest-pairing

What if they've been doing something major for YEARS? How would that effect the NASCAR brand? Would it ruin the fanbase?

There has to be a reason that this guy wins so much. Is it because he's that good? or could it be something else?

I really don't want to aggrivate the J.J. fans out there, but you have to wonder. Don't you?


----------



## coach61 (Sep 6, 2004)

1. race ain't over yet
2. I am doing my voodoo hit the wall Jimmy chant.
3. My Wife and I agree JJ is cheating actually Hendricks as a whole..
4. if he wins again Nascrap won't be able to give away tickets next years its about as exciting as F1 is this year.. 


just my two cents and as for offending JJ fans don't worry they are all band wagoners anyways they cheered for stewart before him and Gordon before that... lol



Go Kyle!

Coach


----------



## WesJY (Mar 4, 2004)

To be honest with you I think Chad and J.J. are cheating big time. They had a couple of bad pit stops (it almost looks like it was done on purpose) to manage the points systems, the list goes on. I might be wrong on this. They need to change their point system. 

I am for Kurt and Brad!!! They are the only drivers that drives DODGE!!!! Sad eh? and both are in top ten!!! as long no crappy toyota wins the champs. 

Wes


----------



## clydeomite (May 5, 2004)

Just listen to the commercials!!! Harvick would do anything to win!!!! But when you work for Satan ( Rick Hendricks) its like Diplomatic Imunity. 
Just my opinon 
Clyde-0-Mite


----------



## smalltime (Jun 3, 2006)

coach61 said:


> 1. race ain't over yet
> 2. I am doing my voodoo hit the wall Jimmy chant.
> 3. My Wife and I agree JJ is cheating actually Hendricks as a whole..
> 4. if he wins again Nascrap won't be able to give away tickets next years its about as exciting as F1 is this year..
> ...


Holy Crap!
I found another Shrub fan.

Go Roudy!


----------



## coach61 (Sep 6, 2004)

smalltime said:


> Holy Crap!
> I found another Shrub fan.
> 
> Go Roudy!



Whoo else would you expect me to cheer for.. Nice guy a bit pugnasious ... reminds me of me lol


----------



## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

Oh...is NASCAR still going on?

I lost interest now that all the passing is done on pit lane. What excitement.

With the constant resetting of the field after yellow flags, it makes what happens on the track during the race irrelevant. Especially when you consider that in most races, it ends up being a sprint at the end due to a late caution.

Wake me when it's over.

Joe


----------



## Boosted-Z71 (Nov 26, 2007)

Nascar & the sponsors have determined its his time to win, probably draw names out of a hat and tell the other drivers to make it close and if you cant well throw a 3-2-1 yellow to get ya bunched up.

Boosted


----------



## joegri (Feb 13, 2008)

i say make all the cars look the same and have the drivers have a softdrink stuck in there mouth. what they already do that? oh. cup racin lost me years ago. too bad cuz i did like it lots at 1 time.as far as jj cheating, i thought it was all about being consistant... and he is.


----------



## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

He is consistent, he always cheats. I'm with Wes, rootin for the lone Dodge boys.

I think Kyle would make a killer claymation dude. 
He already looks like the dad on Davey and Goliath.


----------



## torredcuda (Feb 1, 2004)

"Oh...is NASCAR still going on?

I lost interest now that all the passing is done on pit lane. What excitement.

With the constant resetting of the field after yellow flags, it makes what happens on the track during the race irrelevant. Especially when you consider that in most races, it ends up being a sprint at the end due to a late caution.

Wake me when it's over."

Yup,haven`t hardly watched any Nascrap this year.I tturn it on and walk away a few laps later b/c it`s boring now.Mew COT=crap,drivers=fulltime ponsor spokesmen,commercial every 2 minutes along with every friggin sentence out of an annoncers mouth sponsored by something,Toyotas,multicar(4,5 or more) teams,etc....I`m another Dodge fan but we are overun with the other multicar teams and the same ones winning every week.It`s all about who has the big money sponsor dollars and no longer good driver/crew chief that wins.And how about Jr always crying about someething cuz he can`t win.This week it was his Goodyear tiresWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!


----------



## racer8nut (Mar 25, 2010)

coach61 said:


> 1. race ain't over yet
> 2. I am doing my voodoo hit the wall Jimmy chant.
> 3. My Wife and I agree JJ is cheating actually Hendricks as a whole..
> 4. if he wins again Nascrap won't be able to give away tickets next years its about as exciting as F1 is this year..
> ...


I agree, BUT how the heck do you account for Jr, and Martin. If it were the case, then the whole team would be doing great. I wonder if those are the test mules for the rest of the team. I am not a JJ fan. I wish Jr. would show up sometime.


----------



## plymouth71 (Dec 14, 2009)

Racing legend Smokey Yunick said "If you ain't cheating, you ain't trying." Except I think he may have actually said "'ya" instead of "you," "cheatin'" instead of "cheating," and "tryin'" instead of "trying," but whatever, close enough.


----------



## Ralphthe3rd (Feb 24, 2011)

I said it before and I'll say it agin...if you like Oval Racing, SCREW NasCrap, and go to your local Dirttrack- and watch some REAL Racin' !


----------



## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

JR. was an acquired asset that never had a chance of being the top driver at HMS.
He's off the market, and will never be the top driver again unless he strikes out on his own.
As long as he can get a win every once and a while, he'll stay happy at Hendricks.
Another savvy business move by Rick.

Mark Martin, who accidentally won more than Jeff Gordon a couple years ago, is a
reliable competitor filling a hole in the team til some other prodigy can come along.

Fuel injection next year?


----------



## slotnewbie69 (Dec 3, 2008)

the only nascar i am interested in,lol








:wave:


----------



## smalltime (Jun 3, 2006)

As I watch the practice from Charlotte, I wonder what the cheater will do THIS week to win.

They changed the name of the joint, so do you think he will be as motivated?

Funny, but as I speak to racefans, NOBODY is a fan of this "racer". My money's on 'Ol five time for this week. You can't beat a cheater.


----------



## torredcuda (Feb 1, 2004)

As others have said why are Gordo and JR just doing OK with the same cars and testing,info,big money team etc.?I hate to say it but I think it comes down to driver/crew chief.


----------



## Joe65SkylarkGS (Feb 15, 2010)

They should make the cars the same as what are being made in the factories. Lose this cookie cutter car with varying noses. They suck imo. 

So much for win on sunday and sell on monday. 

Make stock car racing more about stock cars!!!!!!

Hasn't been the same without the black #3


----------



## 378DRIVER (Mar 20, 2010)

Go jimmy go jimmy go jimmy go jimmy go jimmy go jimmy go jimmy go jimmy go jimmy go jimmy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Woo hoo!!!!!


----------



## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

Jimmy Spencer is back racing NASCAR?


----------



## clydeomite (May 5, 2004)

I think he means Jimmy Pardue Al!!!!
Clyde-0-Mite


----------



## smalltime (Jun 3, 2006)

alpink said:


> Jimmy Spencer is back racing NASCAR?


I don't think will allow him in a car 'cause he smokes a cigar.

But he is the orginal Mr Excitement:thumbsup:


----------



## TJETDRAGRACER (Jan 25, 2008)

*Nascar 1972*

I started watching Nascar in 1970 back then you could tell what kind of car 
it was even if all the cars where not painted and just in gray primer from 
just a quick look. ~ 1972 Nascar Points System Changed. 
They where changing the Rules even back then.
((The winner would receive 100 points for a race victory with a drop of two points for each position thereafter. Each driver also received points based on each lap competed in every race, and point values were determined by the length of the race track.))

I'm a Tony Stewart Fan, Does that make me a Bad Person?
He has done a lot better after his anger management classes.


----------



## smalltime (Jun 3, 2006)

TJETDRAGRACER said:


> I'm a Tony Stewart Fan, Does that make me a Bad Person?
> He has done a lot better after his anger management classes.


Hell No!

That makes you one of the good guys.:thumbsup:

I grew up going to and watching the USAC series, all of them. I root for the guys who apprenticed in the open wheel devisions.


----------



## 1976Cordoba (Sep 20, 2000)

I think Johnson will win 8 championships in a row . . . as NASCAR wants. That way the new "King" will be racing every week and they can further bury their history as the great corporate sponsor money-grab grinds out 38 weekends a year.

Yeah, I am disillusioned.


----------



## madsapper (Jan 25, 2001)

Bring back the Flock Brothers! Nothing like a monkey riding shotgun!


----------



## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

As my fantasy points went up in smoke with his wreck, I still couldn't help but laugh...


----------



## slotcarman12078 (Oct 3, 2008)

*Here Rich.. Maybe this will cheer you up...*


----------



## beast1624 (Mar 28, 2009)

AMEN little brutha!!


----------



## LeeRoy98 (Jul 8, 2005)

1976Cordoba said:


> I think Johnson will win 8 championships in a row . . . as NASCAR wants.


That's ridiculous 'doba... I'm hoping you were kidding. NASCAR fully understands they need someone to beat Jimmy, but should they tilt the playing field to make certain he doesn't win??
Like him or not, the guy is a great driver, with excellent hardware and one of the best crew chiefs in the garage. And I think that Jimmy and Chad do one of the best jobs of analyzing what a car is doing during a race to make the correct adjustment. 

But I will share your unstated sentiment... and NASCAR's... ANYONE but Jimmy!!

Gary
AKA LeeRoy98
www.marioncountyraceway.com


----------



## Super Coupe (Feb 16, 2010)

Here is my thoughts of the championship.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:2008_NASCAR_Sprint_Cup_Series,_Texas..jpg

>Tom<


----------



## Gerome (Sep 25, 2011)

smalltime said:


> I really don't want to think this way, but as I watch 'ol 5 time run away from the field at Kansas, I can't help but think there could be something rotten in NASCAR.
> 
> It looks for all the world like this guy is going to win 6 in a row. He's ruining the series as far as fan base goes. Just look in the stands at places like Atlanta, and Charlote, and Indy.
> 
> ...


I'm not a NASCAR fan but using the Bleacher Report as a source is like saying some guy on a street corner told you.


----------



## smalltime (Jun 3, 2006)

Gerome said:


> I'm not a NASCAR fan but using the Bleacher Report as a source is like saying some guy on a street corner told you.


If you read the article, all they really do is keep tabs on the number of times NASCAR has announced fines or warnings. No real reporting.

I'm sure the same information is available elswhere.


----------



## Rawafx (Jul 20, 1999)

I went to Charlotte Saturday night for the Bank Of America 500. Did anyone else from HT attend? It was very interesting to watch the pre-race intros(though we couldn't "see" the frontstretch). J.J. Yeley got a big cheer from fans. So did Hermie Sadler. Kurt and Kyle Bush were introduced together and got ALOT of boos. Of course, NASCAR poster child Jr. got the biggest cheers. The P.A. system could not be heard while the cars were running and during the cautions there was music playing on the system at the same time. LOTS OF EMPTY SEATS, TOO! The scoring tower worked for at least the first 23 or so laps, then none of the positions about 10th showed. At one point none above 25 showed. I did hear they got it fixed towards the end of the race. We only stayed until about the halfway point. I had taken my 90 year Mother with me to the race(her first one!). She was getting pretty tired so I decided we'd start walking out. Anyway,back to Jimmie Johnson.......at the begining of the race all the cars seemed to be running at the same pace with almost no passing. The exception was Greg Biffle. He was the only car we saw moving up through the field. Does anyone know why the drivers started "dive bombing" turn Two, dropping off the banking onto the flat section of the track and then going back onto the banking just before the backstretch??? At first only a car or two did it then maybe 8-10 did. They started getting passed by guys who stayed up on the banking so it didn't last a long time. I did notice that as the race progressed some of the cars stayed at full throttle while others were backing off in Turn Two. Notables on the gas were Jimmie Johnson, Marcos Ambrose, A.J. Allmendinger.
A BIG thumbs up the staff at CMS, they all were very helpfully and friendly, especially to the guy who personally took us up on the V.I.P. elevators(for the luxury suites ONLY) so my MOM didn't have to climb all of those stairs. And to the really nice T.O. guy who gave us a "golf cart" ride all the way to our car in the parking lot, though he did blow my Mom's hat off while driving at a high rate of speed on the highway, LOL!!!!
As far as the "fix" being in on getting Jimmie his 6th, I think NASCAR should be more worried about getting people INTO the seats.
On a side note, you should have seen the CROWDS at Roush Fenway Racing's Museum Thursday for their open house/fan apreciation day. The parking lots were FULL, guys were parking about 1/2 a mile away on the main road. So the NASCAR fans are still around they just don't want to spend the $$$ to go to a race. Oh, and the food was POOR at best.

Bob Weichbrodt
[email protected]
Winston-Salem, NC


----------



## roadrner (Jul 21, 1999)

Agree, what you all said. Left about three years ago and haven't missed it at all. Just need to figure out how the NFL can have a season as long as NASCRAP. :devil: rr


----------



## A/FX Nut (May 28, 2004)

Anybody but Jimmie. Even Kyle Bush.

I can't believe NASCAR would fix the series so Jimmie could win the title every year. If that is the case and it went public, it would be the end of NASCAR. I don't watch it as much as I use to, but I'd quit for sure.

Think about all of the money sponsers put into it. If they found out races were fixed so one driver won the title every year, they would pull out and take their money with them.

Economy being down is a big factor for attendance being down. Jimmie Johnson winning 5 years in a row is another, all of NASCAR's rule changes from year to year, the Car Of Tomorrow, and the corporate influence are contributing factors. 

I know you need corporate sponsership, but I hate it when a driver has to sell his or her soul just to get it. 

No, I don't believe NASCAR is fixing the series. 

Randy.


----------



## smalltime (Jun 3, 2006)

A/FX Nut said:


> Anybody but Jimmie. Even Kyle Bush.
> 
> I can't believe NASCAR would fix the series so Jimmie could win the title every year. If that is the case and it went public, it would be the end of NASCAR. I don't watch it as much as I use to, but I'd quit for sure.
> 
> ...


Hey Randy,
I'm not prepared to go the black helicopter route just yet. I don't think there's a fix in, I simply think this little weasle Knaus has figured something out. It's either fuel, and tire treatment, or traction controll. Those are the big three.

I don't understand the "corporate influence" point though. People aren't watching because corporations are involved? I don't buy that. Corporations are involved in every form of profesional competition.

I do agree that IF they got caught, it would be the end of NASCAR.


----------



## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

every so often there are these rumors that the fix is in for so and so, that there is a conspiracy involving every member of NASCAR and their families. I have been around a day or two and heard them going on 60 years. never has any been proven. and fans will be fans, creating these controversies. it is all interesting hearsay and entertaining to a point. after which it becomes boring drivel. basically, if you don't care for it, don't turn it on your TV. ? !


----------



## co_zee (Mar 28, 2005)

Do you really think that there is anything in "professional" sports that isn't a tad bit rotten?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It is all about the almighty $$$ today and most will sell out to get more. I quit watching NASCAR on a regular basis right after the first race at the newly named Lowe's Motor Speedway. Funny how Jimmie struggled all through the race on to come out of turn 4 on the outside heading for the finish line and out of nowhere his car found some horsepower and shot past 3-4 cars to take the win. Where was that power during the race??? Funny how that "boost" resembled a 50 shot!!!!! A fifty shot bottle can easily be hidden in one's pant leg and it is kept warm this way also!!!!!! And perhaps controversies and accusations never come to light to prove anything because the "family" will not allow it. IF I recall correctly, "families" ran organized crime too!



> Racing legend Smokey Yunick said "If you ain't cheating, you ain't trying." Except I think he may have actually said "'ya" instead of "you," "cheatin'" instead of "cheating," and "tryin'" instead of "trying," but whatever, close enough.


But then no one would ever know if ya were good enough to win without cheatin'! Of course ya already know, that's why yer cheatin"!!!!!!!!


----------



## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

> O.T. Is he really that good?


In a word, yes.

Jimmie Johnson is incredibly smart, patient, level headed, skilled, and a master of getting the most out of his car on just about any track. Plus he has an amazing staff of hundreds of dedicated professionals behind him, not to mention an extremely deep pockets endowed owner and sponsor. Is he head and shoulders above the competition? Hell no. He's only a fractional percentage better than the competition but he is able to demonstrate this marginal difference very consistently. That's what it takes in today's flavor of the sport. Unlike Petty who would thrash much lesser competitors by several laps (and was much less dominating or break-even against the best drivers of his era (Pearson)) the field is much more even today and being a tiny bit better nearly all of the time will lead to championships, especially under the current "playoff" system. 

JJ is not my favorite driver (Kyle Busch is much more exciting to watch for me) but I totally respect what he's done and don't take anything away from him at all. Every other driver and team has had the same opportunities under the chase format and only one team has succeeded in dominating it. Whomever is going to stop the domination by the 48 team is going to have to use the same fundamentals that have powered the 48 team's success. At the root of it is consistency. If any team has a history of success through consistency it is Matt Kenseth and the #17 team, whose spectacularly consistent yet thoroughly dull one-win pre-Chase era championship probably inspired the Chase format as much as anything did. Only problem, the 48 team figured out how to apply the same formula to the 10 race Chase. At least so far. Old #17 is looking mighty stout in this year's Chase, again through consistency. The 48 team obviously treats the season as two clearly different phases: 26 race test & tune followed by 10 race dash for the cash. You'd better believe that every lap leading up to the Chase is analyzed and the setups and cars used in the last 10 races have benefited by every minutia of detail learned in the first 26 sessions.

The whole cheating thing with the 48 team is hogwash. Do they, and every other NASCAR team, examine the rule book with a electron microscope to find exactly where every nuance of tweaking can be applied right up to the hairy edge? Absolutely. Do they and every other team ever bust through the hairy edge and sometimes get called out? Absolutely. But to imply that one driver/team combination can use this close to the edge approach to win 5 championships in a row is ridiculous. There are too many variables, from blown tires to blown tempers to empty fuel tanks to Talledega Big Ones to believe that one team has enough of an ill begotten exclusive advantage to bury the competition 5 years in a row. I'd love to know what the conspiracy theorists think the 48 team is cheating on to deliver 5 consecutive championships. More horsepower? More downforce? Bigger fuel tank? Magic tires? Anti-gravity machine? Flubber?

Take a look at the film and point out where and when the 48 team was able to accomplish the seemingly unthinkable under real racing conditions, things that would not have been possible without a cheat at play. While you're at it, notice all of the occasions where the 48 car got loose, got hooked, turned a few donuts at 180 mph, and didn't hit a damn thing. 

If the 48 team is cheating, the "big cheat" is having Jimmie Johnson in their car while all other teams have lesser drivers. Yes, he and the whole 48 team really is that good. I know that in today's world nobody really likes a winner and we relish watching the great ones falter and come up short of perfection. Human nature I guess. Rooting for the underdog. Is Jimmie Johnson and the 48 team perfect? Hell no. But what they have done is mighty damn impressive and I salute their accomplishments. Someone else will eventually knock off JJ and the 48 team, but this will in no way diminish the feat that the current 5-time champion accomplished.


----------



## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

AFXtoo, but, but, but, ... how do you REALLY feel ?


----------



## co_zee (Mar 28, 2005)

Geesch, when it comes down it is just NASCAR ya know. Go fast, turn left for crying out loud. Besides, in the end, it is all about the $$$. Say it ain't so!


----------



## ajd350 (Sep 18, 2005)

Anyone want to put money on JJ after yesterday?


----------



## smalltime (Jun 3, 2006)

AfxToo said:


> I'd love to know what the conspiracy theorists think the 48 team is cheating on to deliver 5 consecutive championships. More horsepower? More downforce? Bigger fuel tank? Magic tires? Anti-gravity machine? Flubber?


Actually, I think H.P. couldn't be the thing, too much scrutineering. Same with the downforce issue, but the fuel tank.....there we might have somethin.
The tires,well, there are theories about that too. 



> Take a look at the film and point out where and when the 48 team was able to accomplish the seemingly unthinkable under real racing conditions, things that would not have been possible without a cheat at play.


Watch the Kansas race and tell me how the guy pulls the field by 4.5 seconds in the last four laps of the race with 40 laps on his tires.....when the second place car has new right sides.

Can anyone say Tire treatments?

Chad is cheatin' and we all know it.


----------



## A/FX Nut (May 28, 2004)

smalltime said:


> Hey Randy,
> I'm not prepared to go the black helicopter route just yet. I don't think there's a fix in, I simply think this little weasle Knaus has figured something out. It's either fuel, and tire treatment, or traction controll. Those are the big three.
> 
> I don't understand the "corporate influence" point though. People aren't watching because corporations are involved? I don't buy that. Corporations are involved in every form of profesional competition.
> ...


I didn't say people are watching because corparations are involved. What I meant is the drivers have to say things or act a certain way because that corp's name is on their car and race suit.

And I'm tired of seeing the "free pass" sponsered by Arrons, or on MRN Radio "This caution sponsered by, Safety Kleen or Service Master."

Randy.


----------



## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

1976Cordoba said:


> I think Johnson will win 8 championships in a row . . . as NASCAR wants. That way the new "King" will be racing every week and they can further bury their history as the great corporate sponsor money-grab grinds out 38 weekends a year.
> 
> Yeah, I am disillusioned.


Don't worry Doba, Petty will always be first, even at Lowe's.


----------



## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

> Can anyone say Tire treatments?


Can anyone say Flubber?


----------



## pshoe64 (Jun 10, 2008)

Okay, here's my 2 cents worth (and probably not worth that!), but isn't it convenient that RCR won their 100th race, with the Chevy 100th anniversary logo on the winning car? Jr get a Nationwide win in the race he drives the famed Wrangler #3 paint scheme? NASCAR has had many golden moments in their history, but lately there seems to be way too many at just the right instance, that will generate the most dollars. A buddy of mine said he believed that since Days of Thunder was made, NASCAR learned to stage the events, rehearse them and lay them out with 2-3 possible finishes in case the unexpected happened. I'm not quite ready for "black helicopters" either, but there seem to be too many magical moments in the last decade of NASCAR racing compared to the 50 or so years before. Been a fan since I was a kid (40+ years ago) and still like the concept, just not sure if I'm watching the racing version of wrestling now.:freak:

-Paul (NOT a JJ fan, Smoke and Kyle for now)

Oh, and it's only cheatin' if you get caught.


----------



## beast1624 (Mar 28, 2009)

I'm with you Paul (not ready to give in to the conspiracy theory), and I am a JR fan (& Tony-Kevin-Matt + some others) but it does seem co-ink-i-dental that he won the July race at Daytona after Sr died and the next Daytona 500. I just think if they were really wanting to 'bump it up' it would make sense based on fan popularity that it would be him they did it with...but maybe that's what keep Jr Nation tuning in each week. Who knows...certainly not me and the ones that do ain't talkin'


----------



## torredcuda (Feb 1, 2004)

A/FX Nut said:


> I didn't say people are watching because corparations are involved. What I meant is the drivers have to say things or act a certain way because that corp's name is on their car and race suit.
> 
> And I'm tired of seeing the "free pass" sponsered by Arrons, or on MRN Radio "This caution sponsered by, Safety Kleen or Service Master."
> 
> Randy.


I don`t buy into any conspiracy theories whether it`s Nascar or 9/11 but I can`t stand watching something that every 2 seconds has a sponsor ad thrown in.Nascar has become way more about promoting sponsors than real racing and it`s incredibly annoying to be constantly bombarded with that crap while trying to watch a race-count me out!


----------



## SplitPoster (May 16, 2006)

The first big fix I remember was when Richard Petty won #200 in July 1984, at Daytona, with President Reagan in attendence. In those days I was a fan. I soon learned that NASCAR had him run a significantly bumped up engine so he could stay up front. I also remember Sterling Marlin appologizing for outqualifying him. The King was 47 at the time, and was winding down. The fans I knew didn't mind, felt like he earned a tribute, and it was popular even if it was pretty obviously staged. I mean, he wasn't going to be in contention for a championship at that point.

The whole production is a lot more sophisticated today - has to be, so many laps run over the course of a year that each one means less and they all run together. Don't even know who won Talladega, and only know one person who even went. He, the manager of a car service/repair place who has been going for years, said he was so disgusted by the racing and the flags - particularly the green and white thrown together again for the umpteenth time - that he will never go back. Been knowing him over 10 years, he went every year and looked forward to it, but he is finally fed up.


----------



## LeeRoy98 (Jul 8, 2005)

AfxToo said:


> In a word, yes.
> 
> Jimmie Johnson is incredibly smart, patient, level headed, skilled, and a master of getting the most out of his car on just about any track... etc.


Very well stated AFxToo... thank you!

Gary
AKA LeeRoy98
www.marioncountyraceway.com


----------



## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

Ah yes, I guess everything melts together over the years. I remember the boosted race 
being his final appearance at Daytona in the summer of 1992, which was also a campaign year.
I think they tried to recreate the magic of 84 by getting Petty on the pole. Sterling Marlin
just edged him, and the crowd booed him as he did. He later apologized to Petty for it.
Petty ran up front for about half the race, then got out of the car due to "heat exhaustion".
It would make sense that he got out of the car early if he knew the car was cheated up.
He ran about 16th for most of the year and it would have ruined his whole 'Fan Appreciation 
Tour' if he had won with a cheated up car.

But 1984, that was all magic. Cale didn't give it to him...


----------



## torredcuda (Feb 1, 2004)

Wow, another "Who would've thunk it!?"

Caught on camera (by accident).

From Jayski:

Knaus told Johnson to wreck car if he won at Talladega: Chad Knaus told driver Jimmie Johnson to intentionally damage the back end of his race car if the #48 team won Sunday's race at Talladega Superspeedway, the crew chief acknowledged Wednesday. Knaus admitted giving the five-time NASCAR champion the pre-race instructions in order to "cover our bases" in case 500 miles of bump-drafting knocked the car beyond NASCAR's strict tolerances. Officials likely would have accepted the damage as an excuse if the # 48 car had not fit NASCAR's templates in post-race inspection. The conversation between Knaus and Johnson occurred when the crew chief leaned inside the #48 car before the race to give Johnson some final words of encouragement. Because Johnson's in-car camera was live on NASCAR.com's RaceBuddy application, the chat was broadcast to anyone watching the feed at the time.
"If we win this race, you have to crack the back of the car," Knaus could be heard telling Johnson on the recording. "Got it?"
"Really?" Johnson replied, sounding surprised.
"Yes," Knaus said. "Got it? You don't have to have to hit it hard, you don't have to destroy it. But you've gotta do a donut and you've gotta hit the back end, or somebody's gotta hit you in the ass-end or something. OK?"
After Johnson responds with apparent silence (he can't be heard saying anything else), Knaus added, "You'll be alright. Can't take any chances."
When asked Wednesday whether the conversation indicated Knaus was trying something fishy on the back of the car, the crew chief replied, "I don't think that's a fair assessment. To be honest with you, here's the deal - racing at Talladega is tough, and I think everybody understands that," Knaus said in a phone interview. "You run 500 miles at 200 miles per hour, and you're bump-drafting and you're beating on one another, and it's real easy for these cars to get outside of tolerance. It's a tight tolerance that we're held in. It doesn't take much to be a few thousands (of an inch) off and have NASCAR raise an eyebrow. Just being proactive, I just told Jimmie, 'Look, man - we've just got to make sure there's a tire mark or some type of visible damage.' Just because cars do move when you race them like that."(SB Nation)(10-26-2001)


----------



## downtowndeco (Aug 12, 2011)

I can't prove it but something in my gut tells me something is rotten in Denmark as far as JJ goes. Maybe someday we'll learn the real story.


----------



## LeeRoy98 (Jul 8, 2005)

Back in the day...

The Petty team was the most illegal car on the track... or so said all the Petty haters.

The Childress cars... especially that black one... were all cheating. Or so said the Dale haters.

Evernham was the biggest cheater in the garage... or so said the Gordon haters.

Flash forward...

Chad is the biggest cheaters in Nascar... or so say the Jimmy haters.

Nothing every changes... why if you feel that way do you watch?? I know I wouldn't.

Gary
AKA LeeRoy98
www.marioncountyraceway.com


----------



## downtowndeco (Aug 12, 2011)

LeeRoy98 said:


> Nothing every changes... why if you feel that way do you watch??


Funny you should say that....I DVR'd the Talladega race & watched it fast forward this last week. that's something I never would have done 10 years ago. And have you seen the stands at all NASCAR events the last few years? The TV ratings? 

It's not on it's last legs but people are sick of it & NASCAR is going back to being a niche sport IMO.


----------



## LeeRoy98 (Jul 8, 2005)

downtowndeco said:


> Funny you should say that....I DVR'd the Talladega race & watched it fast forward this last week. that's something I never would have done 10 years ago. And have you seen the stands at all NASCAR events the last few years? The TV ratings?
> 
> It's not on it's last legs but people are sick of it & NASCAR is going back to being a niche sport IMO.


I believe the numbers I read had Nascar events up from the last few years. And attendance at all sporting events is down... it's called the economy. Seen the stock market numbers lately?


----------



## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

> I can't prove it but something in my gut tells me something is rotten in Denmark as far as JJ goes


If you read JJ's reaction both at the time that Chad made the statement and after the fact it's pretty obvious that JJ was running the whisky-tango-foxtrot signal flags up the mast. This is simply a case of a guy, Chad, who's been living so close to the hairy edge that he'd gotten himself paranoid about the heavy bump drafting from tandem racing jacking up the spoiler on the 48 car. You live on the edge, you die on the edge and it's desperate times in the 48 garage at this point. Number 6 won't be happening this year. None of this in any way diminishes my respect and admiration for JJ and what his team has already done. They'll probably get a couple more before JJ hangs up his NASCAR driving gloves and takes on another challenge in his life and career.

I understand the frustrations that some folks feel about NASCAR because there are some things that are hard to reconcile, like the tandem driving at the super speedways. It's just dumb. But I wouldn't throw out the baby with the bathwater either. On average I think the competition has never been better and the Chase format has added a level of excitement to the late season races.


----------



## co_zee (Mar 28, 2005)

To the point, NASCAR is nothing compared to what it was 20-30 years ago. Today, it is all about the $$$. Limit corporate spending in NASCAR and watch things change, and quickly.



> Oh, and it's only cheatin' if you get caught.


Not if your parents raised ya right!!!!!!!




> why if you feel that way do you watch??


Don't for the most part. I watch the first 10 laps, then nap or go work on something and wake up or come back and watch the last 20-30 laps. Usually don't miss much and if I do, just catch those highlights on cable.


Now, as mentioned before, they need to go back to dirt track racing. One of the only racing events where ya go left by turning right!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

> Limit corporate spending in NASCAR and watch things change, and quickly.


Yes indeed, this list would get a little longer - and quickly.

http://www.catamountstadium.com/dead_racetrack_list.htm



> NASCAR is nothing compared to what it was 20-30 years ago.


Absolutely. Both good and bad. 



> Today, it is all about the $$$.


There's a time, place, and cost for automobile racing at any and all levels. At the national level it always has been and always will be about the money. Don't let nostalgia fool you into thinking otherwise. If you want to see the other side of racing where money is less of a factor then visit your local dirt track on a Saturday night or drag strip on a Sunday afternoon. 

I'm simply thrilled that we have the full range and levels of racing in America and other westernized countries. From the quarter mile dirt ovals to the grand stages of NASCAR there's something for everyone. I think it's one of the things that makes stock car racing and drag racing so unique and appealing compared to other forms of automobile racing. Everyone is free to follow their favorite levels of racing and there's choice. If NASCAR is not your cup of tea then pack the wife and kids in the family hauler and take in some Outlaws racing where you can still get a $3.00 hot dog and $3.00 beer. If you want the big stage and "Every Sunday is the Superbowl" atmosphere then take out that second mortgage and bask in the sweaty intimacy and ******* rowdiness of you and your 100,000 closest friends that is a NASCAR event. Or sit at home and watch Beevis & Butthead re-runs. Choice is good, but it's still your choice.


----------



## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

to quote RUSH, " if you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice! " .... " I will choose a bathysphere, I will choose free will! " .


----------



## co_zee (Mar 28, 2005)

AfxToo said:


> Yes indeed, this list would get a little longer - and quickly.
> 
> http://www.catamountstadium.com/dead_racetrack_list.htm
> 
> ...


I am not referring to the actual cost of putting a car on the track nor the cost to see a race.


----------



## smalltime (Jun 3, 2006)

co_zee said:


> I am not referring to the actual cost of putting a car on the track nor the cost to see a race.


So.......
You're going to watch tomorrow?

I know I will, just because I LOVE Martinsville. I watch every race I can from there. The modifieds are the best.

Go Shrub!


----------



## Ralphthe3rd (Feb 24, 2011)

*Well said.....*



AfxToo said:


> There's a time, place, and cost for automobile racing at any and all levels. At the national level it always has been and always will be about the money. Don't let nostalgia fool you into thinking otherwise. *If you want to see the other side of racing where money is less of a factor then visit your local dirt track on a Saturday night or drag strip on a Sunday afternoon. *
> 
> *I'm simply thrilled that we have the full range and levels of racing in America and other westernized countries. From the quarter mile dirt ovals to the grand stages of NASCAR there's something for everyone. I think it's one of the things that makes stock car racing and drag racing so unique and appealing compared to other forms of automobile racing. Everyone is free to follow their favorite levels of racing and there's choice. If NASCAR is not your cup of tea then pack the wife and kids in the family hauler and take in some Outlaws racing where you can still get a $3.00 hot dog and $3.00 beer. If you want the big stage and "Every Sunday is the Superbowl" atmosphere then take out that second mortgage and bask in the sweaty intimacy and ******* rowdiness of you and your 100,000 closest friends that is a NASCAR event. Or sit at home and watch Beevis & Butthead re-runs. Choice is good, but it's still your choice.*


Right On Brother :thumbsup:


----------



## co_zee (Mar 28, 2005)

smalltime said:


> So.......
> You're going to watch tomorrow?
> 
> I know I will, just because I LOVE Martinsville. I watch every race I can from there. The modifieds are the best.
> ...



Nope. The short tracks are kinda like goin' to the county fair and watchin' the bumper cars!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## co_zee (Mar 28, 2005)

AfxToo said:


> Yes indeed, this list would get a little longer - and quickly.
> 
> http://www.catamountstadium.com/dead_racetrack_list.htm



More than likely most of these tracks closed for the main reason of insurance costs. High premiums meant lower purses. Lower purses meant less entries. Less entries meant lower gates. Lower gates meant less $$$. And then there was the fan who tried to shove a whole hot dog into their trap and choked on it and turned around and sued the track and was awarded big $$ thus driving up premiums for every track owner. But what I am referring to is the corporate domination of NASCAR. There used to be a day in NASCAR when they simply raced to see who could win the race. A day when the bulk of the sponsors were connected to autos and or racing in a more direct way. Guess I keep walking by that department at Lowes!!!

And as far as professionalism, I can see it at the local level just as well at the upper end of the spectrum. Granted, they don't put on the horse and pony show of NASCAR but professional just the same without the big $$$$. But then, locally they typically operate without a puppeteer.


----------



## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

looks like there is another conspiracy then ....



to keep Booooosch out of the championship!


----------



## co_zee (Mar 28, 2005)

Funny how Big E continually got away with the very same thing. But then, he brought in the $$$ at the gates.


----------



## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

Ernie Irvin?


----------



## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

I would criticize NASCAR for their arbitrary and capricious leadership - but they have no leadership. I really feel badly for the drivers who really have no idea whatsoever what "boy's have at it" really means other than the fact that Commissar Helton gets to decide what's okay and what is not based on an inner voice that only he can hear.


----------



## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

rubber head, Rusty Wallace, looks natural as a commentator. i don't think Dale would have been able to fill that role had he not been killed.


----------



## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

AfxToo said:


> I would criticize NASCAR for their arbitrary and capricious leadership - but they have no leadership. I really feel badly for the drivers who really have no idea whatsoever what "boy's have at it" really means other than the fact that Commissar Helton gets to decide what's okay and what is not based on an inner voice that only he can hear.


I agree.

Big Bill started it,
Bill Jr. grew it,
Brian just ain't cuttin' it.


----------



## co_zee (Mar 28, 2005)

afxtoo said:


> i would criticize nascar for their arbitrary and capricious leadership - but they have no leadership. I really feel badly for the drivers who really have no idea whatsoever what "boy's have at it" really means other than the fact that commissar helton gets to decide what's okay and what is not based on an inner voice that only he can hear.



amen!


----------



## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

what happened to all the conspirators?


----------



## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

Nascar heard, and changed their story.


----------



## co_zee (Mar 28, 2005)

alpink said:


> what happened to all the conspirators?


I'm here!!!! I never said JJ was gonna win the big one but I did and still say NASCAR is as crooked as Don King's hair! Just because JJ didn't win doesn't mean NASCAR isn't calling the shots. Instead of just calling those who do not agree with you a conspirator, man up and go ahead predict how successful Smoke will be next season since you must feel he won on his merit.


----------



## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

I don't recall naming anyone specifically, but if you feel like you are one I should be naming, so be it.
I don't understand how my masculinity could be tied, in any way, to a prediction about something with so many unpredictable variables.
and I never said NASCAR wasn't corrupt, did I?


----------



## co_zee (Mar 28, 2005)

Nope, ya never mentioned me by name but you did imply!!! And as for what ya never said, ya never said it was either and by your allegations towards the so-called conspirators, you sure make it sound as though it is squeaky clean.


Well, as for manning up, if ya feel NASCAR is so on the up and up as you imply, then why not go ahead and speak up as to who will dominate NASCAR next year? If it isn't corrupt, and you have been following it for nearly 40 years, ya shouldn't have any problem predicting who has the skills and talent to come out on top. But then, if it is corrupt . .


----------



## smalltime (Jun 3, 2006)

I think it's a definite possibility that there's something fishy about nascar. 

I don't know if it goes as far as rigging the outcomes of races, but I think there's a definite pecking order to who get's scrutinized, and who doesn't.


----------



## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

co-zee, your interpretation of my implications may be way off base. please have a look at a dictionary.
conspirators would be those within NASCAR that are conspiring to do whatever. 
those espousing a conspiracy would be called something else entirely. 
I didn't ask what happened to those accusing NASCAR of a conspiracy. I asked what happened to the conspirators?
which means those in control, the so called evil-doers, what happened to them? 
was real life more than they could FIX? 
or did their agenda change?
some other posters had indicated they had pretty good knowledge of this supposed FIX to get JJ a 6th championship?
I am not attacking any one here and I certainly don't think any sanctioning body in any arena within the whole of humanity is innocent of playing with their own rules to affect outcomes.
I never indicated otherwise either. 

I have noted that there have been many accusations of FIXes in NASCAR, including Dale Earnhardt finally winning a Daytone 500, I just don't see that you could FIX the entire garage.

I am pretty certain that one eye Cat in the Hat Jack Roush would never lie down to NASCAR on something like that.

I'm just saying that entire championships cannot be easily produced with all the incredible parameters of getting through all these races clean and green

it is easy enough to FIX a pro fight by corrupting one fighter.
how many owners, drivers, crew chiefs, sponsors, etc., ad nauseum would need to be influenced to completely control such a large organization?

and, finally, I don't hold grudges or get upset about such discussions, there are far more serious things ....


----------



## Super Coupe (Feb 16, 2010)

Here's a simple solution for everybody.... If ya like Nascar, watch it. If ya don't like Nascar, don't watch.
>Tom<


----------



## Hilltop Raceway (Feb 12, 2006)

Super Coupe said:


> Here's a simple solution for everybody.... If ya like Nascar, watch it. If ya don't like Nascar, don't watch.
> >Tom<


Can I get an amen!!! I still like watching cars coming off the banked turns, getting a little sideways into a dog leg or straight shute, a little smoke from tire rubbing, doot to door action, some temper flares, or coming from the back of the pack!!!, etc... Yea, it may get a little slow at times if one car dominates, but when the underdog can put on a show... RM


----------



## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

I say we should get together and OCCUPY NASCAR.
These guys are way less than 1% of all the racers in the country, why should they get all the attention?
Round up all the friends you can, grab your tents, RVs, and head to a Nascar infield near you.
We'll show them.


----------



## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

The mere notion of NASCAR somehow "fixing" the outcome of races or the championship is beyond rediculous and disconnected with any sense of reality. NASCAR is a very broad based venture involving thousands of professionals at all levels from engineering, marketing, public relations, management, driver development, event planning, not to mention the "out front" guys and gals that you see in the cars and in the pits on race day. NASCAR is also a performance oriented business, with sponsorship being doled out based on driver and team success. Getting a corporation to fork over tens of millions of dollars to sponsor a team is not something taken lightly, especially in this economy. 

I don't agree with everything NASCAR leadership does, especially their lack of clarity and continuing ambiguity around driver behavior. I believe that drivers should be treated like any other professionals and any behavior that would be unacceptable in any other professional setting should be unacceptable in professional racing. If I took a swing at a coworker I would be fired or punished in a big way. And yes I would like to see the cars resemble the "real" models in a better way. But these are all internal issues for NASCAR to deal with. Fixing outcomes would be fraud and I don't believe for a microsecond that NASCAR would commit fraud.

If you're going to seriously accuse NASCAR of fraud you'd better think about all the regular people and families whose lives are affected by the operation and integrity of the business that is NASCAR. Many of these people are struggling just like many Americans are struggling these days. Belittling the seriousness of their livelihood for trivial opinions and unfounded conspiracy theories is small minded thinking.


----------



## pshoe64 (Jun 10, 2008)

But there was a conspiracy! JJ was supposed to win, but in a deviously cleaver plot, Grubb and Stewart snuck into Hendrix's garage and swapped their cars for JJ's. Their paint was still wet at the first Chase race! 

As far as theories go it's thin...anorexily so! Kudos to Stewart-Hass Racing!

Well that was fun. If you got this far, guess we'll have to wait until Feb 2012 to start all this back up again. Fuel injection is coming! Except we can't talk about it in a critical manner without NASCAR fines:freak:

-Paul


----------



## smalltime (Jun 3, 2006)

> Belittling the seriousness of their livelihood for trivial opinions and unfounded conspiracy theories is small minded thinking.


Now I'm small minded............ Got It.

Let me tell you what my small mind has put together:

#1 We will never know just how much lower attendence is at these races, but It's WAY down. It coincided with OL' Fivetime has his domination of the top teir of the sport.

#2 Chad is a prooven cheater. 8 times by my count he has been reprimanded in some way. Is it out of the question to postulate there "may" have been something fishy going on in scrutineering during the past five years?

#3 Nascar is the big show. It's all about ratings and putting butts in the seats. It's alot easier to make sure a certain driver DOESN'T win, than to make sure a certain driver does. I'm not sayin' they did it, but..........


----------



## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

Well, I for one dont believe Nascar ever actually landed on the moon. In reviewing clues and testimonials taken from the the grassy knoll, we can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that there is no evidence proving that the second gunman wasnt an alien conspirator.


----------



## pshoe64 (Jun 10, 2008)

Priceless, Bill:thumbsup:

-Paul


----------



## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

> I'm not sayin' they did it, but..........


If anyone can define a credible scenario where NASCAR would illegally intervene to change the outcome of a race, much less five consecutive seasons and season championships, then I will open my mind to tampering. The scenario would of course have to include a logical and rational explanation of why and how NASCAR would exclusively reward one team, one sponsor, and one driver while alienating every other multimillion dollar sponsor, every other team, while simultaneously risking a total and complete devaluation of their entire legacy and legitimacy. Also, a reasonable explanation of how wrecks, blown engines, bungled pit stops, and empty fuel tanks were factored into the tampering equation over 5+ years would be nice to hear about as well.

I think Bill is on to something if we can confirm the story with Elvis, whom I swear I saw eating a chili dog platter in the back booth of a Dairy Queen in central Kansas in June of 2001 while I was on a cross country trek.


----------



## smalltime (Jun 3, 2006)

OK,
I got it....I'm the black helicopter guy. Fine.

Multi Billion dollar revenue stream, Multiple land deals set up with states and municipalities, T.V. deals with three broadcasters, Multi million dollar points fund paid by a multi national corporation. There's no reason to look any deeper.

Don't follow the money.

Sulking away to my mancave.:wave:


----------

