# New FCC Laws could mean the demise of AW Pancake Slotcars ?!



## Ralphthe3rd (Feb 24, 2011)

I dunno if any of you guys have been following the NEW '14 Fed. regs regarding RF Static Noise emitting electric motors in Toys. But the new move to comply with these Regs by Racemasters, in their NEW Mega G+ chassis, shows us the Feds mean business !
In AFX's case, they are gonna use an ALL NEW RF shielded can motor, to meet the new Regs. But how the hell can a Pancake motor shield off it's RF static emissions ? Could this be the final Straw to Break Auto World's Slot Car back ? If they cannot shield the T-Jet500, X-Traction, and 4 Gear motors, then they are doomed to cease production of them for the USA ?


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## A/GS (Jul 10, 2014)

Ralphthe3rd said:


> I dunno if any of you guys have been following the NEW '14 Fed. regs regarding RF Static Noise emitting electric motors in Toys. But the new move to comply with these Regs by Racemasters, in their NEW Mega G+ chassis, shows us the Feds mean business !
> In AFX's case, they are gonna use an ALL NEW RF shielded can motor, to meet the new Regs. But how the hell can a Pancake motor shield off it's RF static emissions ? Could this be the final Straw to Break Auto World's Slot Car back ? If they cannot shield the T-Jet500, X-Traction, and 4 Gear motors, then they are doomed to cease production of them for the USA ?


Sounds like a very silly regulation to me; how could these HO slot cars emit enough RF Static Noise to interfere with anything ? And even if it did; the range could not be enough to cause any problems outside your own home. The FCC can't be serious about this.


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## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

doom
n 
gloom​


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## Ralphthe3rd (Feb 24, 2011)

FYI- DC Electric Motors(in general) are VERY Dirty with RF emitting Static...
BTW- since I started reading about all this, I did some RF static testing myself. Now I'll admit I'm a dinosaur, and don't hardly own anything NEW or Contemporary. ie- My TV is still an old analog Console TV, and it uses a Digital Converter box- because it STILL receives it's Signals from the AIR with a Roof Top Antenna(For Free TV I might add ) Anyway, my test involved running two different cars on my Track in my Race Room, which is right next to my Living Room where the TV is. My test partner stayed in the TV Room and monitored the TV while I tested the cars. The first car was a fairly modern Life-Like Nascar using the "T" Chassis inline motor. During the running of this car, my buddy witnessed No RF Static on the CRT TV Screen that was detectable. Next up was a Auto World T-Jet in like New Condition. I ran this Car and I heard the response from the next room ! Yep- all kinds of static snow and digital blotching while running the T-Jet....Ruh Roh 

PS- I just remembered something that I thought was Funny at the time. Waaay back in 1976 and living in central N.J., I built a Street Legal Baja Bug, with the Motor 3/4 exposed in the rear. Anyway, one day while I was cruising around town, a friend walking down the steet flagged me down so I pulled over and we chatted a while, all the time I kept the motor running. WELL....after about 10 minutes this guy comes flying out of the house I was parked in front of on the street, and was Yelling something at me ! He was saying to "Shut off that Damn thing, or get the hell off his street" ....coz my Cars exposed DC generator was F'n up his TV Reception ! I Laughed for a second, then said later, and took off spinning tires.... Ahhh... so that was RF Static that I was producing, with my Exposing engine running a DC Generator !


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## tjetsgrig (Nov 1, 2009)

Well, the Feds are begining to lose the battle against weed with its rescent legalization in Colorado and Washington, so they need to turn their attention to something as rediculous as outlawing a friggin' slotcar's source of locomotion!! If thats the case, any vehicle using solid copper core wires will be in violation as well!! I know my 1958 Mercury Mk78 outboard motor will be in SERIOUS violation!!! This is just rediculous!! If this is true, it's a total waste of taxpayers dollars!!!

JS


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## neorules (Oct 20, 2006)

Guys--- the reason Racemasters fell under the FCC regulations was because of the chip in the lap counter/timer unit in some sets. If you don't have the chip then only toy regs apply.


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## Ralphthe3rd (Feb 24, 2011)

Neo, from what I've heard, this IS a NEW Toy Reg !?


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## lenny (Feb 29, 2000)

Ralphthe3rd said:


> I dunno if any of you guys have been following the NEW '14 Fed. regs regarding RF Static Noise emitting electric motors in Toys. But the new move to comply with these Regs by Racemasters, in their NEW Mega G+ chassis, shows us the Feds mean business !
> In AFX's case, they are gonna use an ALL NEW RF shielded can motor, to meet the new Regs. But how the hell can a Pancake motor shield off it's RF static emissions ? Could this be the final Straw to Break Auto World's Slot Car back ? If they cannot shield the T-Jet500, X-Traction, and 4 Gear motors, then they are doomed to cease production of them for the USA ?


would you possibly have a link to these federal regulations, or a regulation number, or some other useful information regarding exactly what these regulations are?


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## lenny (Feb 29, 2000)

Ralphthe3rd said:


> PS- I just remembered something that I thought was Funny at the time. Waaay back in 1976 and living in central N.J., I built a Street Legal Baja Bug, with the Motor 3/4 exposed in the rear. Anyway, one day while I was cruising around town, a friend walking down the steet flagged me down so I pulled over and we chatted a while, all the time I kept the motor running. WELL....after about 10 minutes this guy comes flying out of the house I was parked in front of on the street, and was Yelling something at me ! He was saying to "Shut off that Damn thing, or get the hell off his street" ....coz my Cars exposed DC generator was F'n up his TV Reception ! I Laughed for a second, then said later, and took off spinning tires.... Ahhh... so that was RF Static that I was producing, with my Exposing engine running a DC Generator !


you sure it wasn't just the solid core ignition wires you probably had installed??


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## smalltime (Jun 3, 2006)

The sky is falling!​


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## neorules (Oct 20, 2006)

Ralph--- John C who made the Mega G told me they had considered putting in a coupon to send in for the counter unit so the FCC would not be involved. My conclusion was that the FCC was involved because of the Unit. Without it a redesign would not have been needed. Hope that helps.


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## Ralphthe3rd (Feb 24, 2011)

I dunno WHAT to believe anymore !? And what I read came from SCI.
Danny, about my Baja Bug RF Static emissions, yes, it had solid core Plug Wires


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## lenny (Feb 29, 2000)

Ralphthe3rd said:


> Danny, about my Baja Bug RF Static emissions, yes, it had solid core Plug Wires


that explains at least part of the interference...


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## Ralphthe3rd (Feb 24, 2011)

Here is a link to Fed Regs... RF Emissions I was told it's somewhere in there.... can't find it at the moment. But check it out if you like, and post info if you find it.


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

Uhhhhh....

Everybody in the know understands that slot cars are like tinfoil hats. They interfere with big brother monitoring your brain and goings on in yer house hold.

Where's my collander?!


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## slotcarman12078 (Oct 3, 2008)

This might be it...

§15.13 Incidental radiators.

Manufacturers of these devices shall employ good engineering practices to minimize the risk of harmful interference.

return arrow Back to Top
§15.15 General technical requirements.

(a) An intentional or unintentional radiator shall be constructed in accordance with good engineering design and manufacturing practice. Emanations from the device shall be suppressed as much as practicable, but in no case shall the emanations exceed the levels specified in these rules.

(b) Except as follows, an intentional or unintentional radiator must be constructed such that the adjustments of any control that is readily accessible by or intended to be accessible to the user will not cause operation of the device in violation of the regulations. Access BPL equipment shall comply with the applicable standards at the control adjustment that is employed. The measurement report used in support of an application for Certification and the user instructions for Access BPL equipment shall clearly specify the user-or installer-control settings that are required for conformance with these regulations.

(c) Parties responsible for equipment compliance should note that the limits specified in this part will not prevent harmful interference under all circumstances. Since the operators of part 15 devices are required to cease operation should harmful interference occur to authorized users of the radio frequency spectrum, the parties responsible for equipment compliance are encouraged to employ the minimum field strength necessary for communications, to provide greater attenuation of unwanted emissions than required by these regulations, and to advise the user as to how to resolve harmful interference problems (for example, see §15.105(b)).

[54 FR 17714, Apr. 25, 1989, as amended at 70 FR 1373, Jan. 7, 2005]

Don't worry Danny Tantrum... I don't think it's going to shut down operations...


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## Gear Head (Mar 22, 2005)

Oh nooooo. Everyone to your basements and bring the twinkies!


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## Jisp (Oct 19, 2008)

It's about time they addressed the RFI issue. It's been keeping me awake at nights. Now, while they are at it, when will they address the issue of cutting wheel arches? I think a t-rex was used to open up what this guy describes as slightly shaved........ http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Vintage-Aurora-AFX-Non-Magnatraction-55-Chevy-Bel-Air-with-polymer-magnets-/171484544524

Cheers,
Michael.:thumbsup:


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## snakelee (Sep 20, 2014)

I agree with Terry,everything is digital now days,I see no need for the regulation(Radio frequency (RF) is a rate of oscillation in the range of around 3 kHz to 300 GHz, which corresponds to the frequency of radio waves, and the alternating currents which carry radio signals.


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## Ralphthe3rd (Feb 24, 2011)

Not trying to throw Gasoline on the fire, but....since I started reading about all this, I did some RF static testing myself. Now I'll admit I'm a dinosaur, and don't hardly own anything NEW or Contemporary. ie- My TV is still an old analog Console TV, and it uses a Digital Converter box- because it STILL receives it's Signals from the AIR with a Roof Top Antenna(For Free TV I might add  ) Anyway, my test involved running two different cars on my Track in my Race Room, which is right next to my Living Room where the TV is. My test partner stayed in the TV Room and monitored the TV while I tested the cars. The first car was a fairly modern Life-Like Nascar using the "T" Chassis inline motor. During the running of this car, my buddy witnessed No RF Static on the CRT TV Screen that was detectable. Next up was a Auto World T-Jet in like New Condition. I ran this Car and I heard the response from the next room ! Yep- all kinds of static snow and digital blotching while running the T-Jet....Ruh Roh


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## A/GS (Jul 10, 2014)

Does the FCC not realize that it's 2014; only a few months away from 2015 ? How many people have antenna TV's in the U.S. ? It can't be very many; most people have either Cable or Satellite TV now. As far as the regulations as quoted by Joe / SCM; it reads like legalize or gobbledygook. It makes no sense at all. Government has lied to citizens from the beginning. Technology is at least 50 years in advance of what most people are aware of. Ever wonder why the U.S. never returned to the Moon since the last Apollo mission ? The truth is that the U.S. and Russia have had bases on the Moon; and Mars since the early 60's when Anti-Gravity craft were developed with the assistance of German scientists following WWII. They also used advanced technology backwards engineered from crashed Alien craft. A treaty was signed following the second world war between president Eisenhower and the Grays to provide advanced technology. The treaty would allow the Grays to take as many humans as they wanted to experiment on. This would account for the high numbers of people that have simply vanished over the years. Many people have been kept imprisoned at the Dulce base in New Mexico where they are experimented on ( Tortured ) by the Grays; all with the approval of the World governments, and the Illuminati that control them. You can never trust the government to ever tell you the truth.


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## Ralphthe3rd (Feb 24, 2011)

*****


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## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

*paranoia*



A/GS said:


> Does the FCC not realize that it's 2014; only a few months away from 2015 ? How many people have antenna TV's in the U.S. ? It can't be very many; most people have either Cable or Satellite TV now. As far as the regulations as quoted by Joe / SCM; it reads like legalize or gobbledygook. It makes no sense at all. Government has lied to citizens from the beginning. Technology is at least 50 years in advance of what most people are aware of. Ever wonder why the U.S. never returned to the Moon since the last Apollo mission ? The truth is that the U.S. and Russia have had bases on the Moon; and Mars since the early 60's when Anti-Gravity craft were developed with the assistance of German scientists following WWII. They also used advanced technology backwards engineered from crashed Alien craft. A treaty was signed following the second world war between president Eisenhower and the Grays to provide advanced technology. The treaty would allow the Grays to take as many humans as they wanted to experiment on. This would account for the high numbers of people that have simply vanished over the years. Many people have been kept imprisoned at the Dulce base in New Mexico where they are experimented on ( Tortured ) by the Grays; all with the approval of the World governments, and the Illuminati that control them. You can never trust the government to ever tell you the truth.


"we better STOP, hey, what's that sound?"

"it starts when you're always afraid
the man come and he take you away"

was that a silent black helicopter that just flew by?

RUH ROH


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## A/GS (Jul 10, 2014)

Further, it's my belief that the government is suppressing the technology to allow the release of N scale Slot Cars. These cars would have actual engine sounds thanks to micro speakers and advanced on board micro processors. It would also be possible for other sounds to be used; car radios playing your favorite station's music. As well as micro drivers that could move in the car; and sounds of drivers cursing during road rage incidents. There is no end to what could be available for these N scale Slot Cars. But the government is making sure this tech doesn't get in the hands of consumers.


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## old blue (May 4, 2007)

They will have to pry my Russkit controller from my cold, dead hand......



Always wanted to say that!
Old Blue


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## Boosted-Z71 (Nov 26, 2007)

They will have to pry my "Pancakes" from my cold dead hands, & I be throwing RF all over the place

Boosted


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## smalltime (Jun 3, 2006)




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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

Those who are worried about "emissions" should protect themselves as shown above.


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## snakelee (Sep 20, 2014)

*Rf*

Ralph i may be wrong


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## super8man (Jan 29, 2013)

I am not worried about AW not making NEW pancake motors. There are still multiple MILLIONS of perfectly good Aurora pancake motors out there. Rock on!


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## Toyota-MR2 (Jul 22, 2009)

I have a feelings that all of these new laws will cause a backlash on the Feds.


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## Rich Dumas (Sep 3, 2008)

Aurora motors good for what? For casual running there are plenty to go around, for serious T-Jet SS and Fray style racers good armatures are hard to find. If you buy regular replacement armatures or NOS rolling chassis those are very likely to have been picked over, so you will be getting someone else's rejects. It took me 12 years to find some competitive armatures.
When Aurora folded up REH bought their inventory and has been selling NOS rolling chassis ever since. I know quite a few people that have bought them by the case, a few people have bought over a thousand cars. They usually test them and sell off the duds. Dealers that sell NOS T-Jet parts usually take apart rolling chassis to get those. Original blister packed Aurora parts were probably sold off long ago.
Last year I asked a friend that has an inside track with REH to ask if they had any rolling chassis left, the answer was yes, but his impression was that the supply is running low. I know for sure that there are quite a few people that have unsorted cases full.


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## Ralphthe3rd (Feb 24, 2011)

Below, Posted by someone(on another forum)who is smarter than I.

EMI/RFI is something I have had to deal with for years. Conducted emissions are noise that couples to existing wires and cause interference different than caused by radiated emissions. Conducted emissions can impact a target at a greater range than RF emissions. A simple cap might have met the old rules. It probably will not meet the new tighter standards. With the new rules you will probably have to shield the arc which occurs between brush and armature. In any case you have to test the product and certify that it meets the regs. That cost is not inexpensive. The new regulations do not just impact the pancakes. It hits the in-lines as well. This is why your newer 1/32 and 1/24th motors are totally shielded and not user serviceable. Racemasters new in-line car uses a totally shielded can motor.


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## Ralphthe3rd (Feb 24, 2011)

And here's a post by Rich Dumas posted on another forum, that I found interesting 
"It is possible that emissions from your slot cars could get fed back into the grid, but I have not heard of that being a problem. Years ago I bought a remote switching system to turn lights and appliances on and off via the phone or from a central console. There was a control unit with a keypad and a phone line connected to that which was plugged into the wall and reciever units that plugged into the wall for the lights, etc.. The control signals would be transmitted through the house wiring. For the heck of it I connected one of the receivers in the house across the street and found that I could turn a light on and off from the console.
Most likely the transformer and capacitor(s) in your power supply would keep the RFI from feeding back into the grid. Radio Shack used to sell wall adapters with RFI filters built in."


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## super8man (Jan 29, 2013)

So I guess that's it then. What with there essentially being NO Aurora parts left for the enthusiast and a ban on even operating a pancake motor by the FCC, we may as well sell everything on ebay now. The day slot cars died. Sigh.


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## Dragula (Jun 27, 2003)

I saw black UN helicopters hovering over Autoworlds headquarters.
<puts on foil hat>
Chris


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## pshoe64 (Jun 10, 2008)

Didn't Faller have a resistor soldered from the positive side of the motor circuit to kill off the offending frequency. It's a .01¢ part in bulk. I think this is much ado about nothing. Of course the Feds could throw a tax on all low to mid frequency filters and our pancake cars will cost the same as a Tesla~:drunk:

Man! I just want to play with my toys!

-Paul


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## Paul R (Nov 3, 2009)

Rich Dumas said:


> Aurora motors good for what? For casual running there are plenty to go around, for serious T-Jet SS and Fray style racers good armatures are hard to find. If you buy regular replacement armatures or NOS rolling chassis those are very likely to have been picked over, so you will be getting someone else's rejects. It took me 12 years to find some competitive armatures.


You must be looking in the wrong places. I spent the summer building and racing some pretty competitive cars here in the New England. As did the other other 20 guys I raced with.


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## Rich Dumas (Sep 3, 2008)

I bought armatures from someone that won the Fray and they were average at best. I bought some Tornado armatures that were all very good. The hitch with Fray and T-Jet SS racing is only the armatures, other stock or aftermarket parts are mostly OK. The armatures that Aurora made in the early '70s tend to include a lot of junk ones that can't be salvaged by any means. Those armatures mostly belong in shelf queens or in cars that kids will run.
Certainly there are people out there with a stash of good armatures, if you know one of those people you might be in luck.
If we want people to get into the hobby they have to be able to buy cars that run reasonably well right out of the box, they do not necessarily have to be ready to win races but they should not have to be fixed to run above a crawl.
You may have noticed that NOS T-Jet rolling chassis have gotten rather expensive lately, so the introduction of the Dash cars at $12 has been a good thing. The new Dash 2 lamination 16 ohm armatures are looking good and I see that a number of clubs are starting to use them.


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## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

question ....
saw an Accella high speed electric train speed by as I traveled north 95 in Delaware today.
broad daylight.
saw immense sparks flying from the front and rear engine's contact to the overhead catanary.
would those sparks be likely to produce offending emissions and if so, what is the Fed Govt doing about it?


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## tjetcar (Jul 7, 2009)

When T-jets are outlawed, only outlaws will have T-jets.


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## hojohn (May 21, 2008)

i think they just want all our tjets so if you have no place to hide yours send them to me and i will hide them for you:thumbsup:


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## Bubba 123 (Sep 10, 2010)

tjetcar said:


> When T-jets are outlawed, only outlaws will have T-jets.


if Dan looks into legalities....
I believe it might be possible 4 him 2 continue as-is....
by just selling his chassis in "Kit-Form"... just remove top plate, & clip..
bag the armature brushes, top & bottom.. & $$$ (??)
anyone "Know" Legalize on here, & can investigate???

Bubba 123 (Beat'n them Feds fer 45 yrs. & count'n ;-) :wave:


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## noddaz (Aug 6, 1999)

*The FCC*

The FCC should do something about pop-ups on the internet... 

Scott


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## brownie374 (Nov 21, 2007)

I would be fine with Autoworld just selling bodies or a pullback then I wouldn't have to sell the chassis on ebay after I take the bodies off.


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## Joe65SkylarkGS (Feb 15, 2010)

Even though they passed a law long ago about some commercials on tv over modulating and blasting the volume way up, I'm still waiting for it to be implemented. Way too many still doing it!!!!

There's your gov, hard at work.


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## Rich Dumas (Sep 3, 2008)

This is somewhat off the subject, but I believe that a slot car should run fairly well straight out of the box, but that is often not the case with pancake cars, even including NOS Aurora T-Jets. Having to fix a brand new car is going to turn off a lot of people off. Rather than griping about the situation I have written a series of articles on tuning all kinds of pancake cars and those are available by going here: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/HOCOCSLOTCARRACING/info and looking in the files section.
Getting back to the subject at hand vendors are going to still be able to sell what they have in stock. The cars do not have serial numbers, so it would be difficult to tell a NOS item from a newly manufactured one in any case. Selling the cars in a bag of parts might be a partial solution. I suspect that someone out there has gotten rathar tired of assembling Dash cars.


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## Bubba 123 (Sep 10, 2010)

Rich Dumas said:


> This is somewhat off the subject, but I believe Selling the cars in a bag of parts might be a partial solution. I suspect that someone out there has gotten rathar tired of assembling Dash cars.


I would "Guess", that would be Dan....
BUT he's a "Perfectionist", WHY we lay Drooling on each of his next endeavors :thumbsup:

may the gods of slot-car-dom, bless & keep U Mr. Tantrum....
4 U can truly say; "Quality, is Job#1!!!"
something most U.S. workers have lost, "Pride in Workmanship"...
BUT I'm seeing a STRONG come-back on it recently...
in NEW U.S. MFG. businesses !! :thumbsup:

Bubba 123 :thumbsup::wave:

nice group Rich...I signed up 4 it ;-)


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