# any opinions on World Class Batteries?



## dgraham225

www.worldclassbats.com

anyone have any experience with these? the price is unbeatable, but are the numbers precise? how do the compare to the promatch or other good matchers? thanks.

Danny


----------



## dgraham225

yea, his cells come with detailed directions on how to charge and care for them. My uncle bought three of them, and i wanted to check them out to make sure the numbers arent false. didnt want to take a chance.


----------



## pancartom

looks to me that he's playing with the voltage numbers.... not running the GP's out to the end of the cycle. he's calculating them at 360 seconds. beware


----------



## rowle1jt

Yeah, I would have to agree with Pancartom. Stick to someone with a full runout on their numbers like SMC or Pro Match. When a matcher messes with #'s like that, it just means that they can't get the #'s they should be out of the cells.

My .02 cents.


----------



## Tempest2000

Well I bought 2 packs and I asked for the run time I was looking for and he got it for me. The numbers were true on my turbo 35 matcher. Voltage was not as important for mod 12th. As far as the voltage goes, from what I understand he was trying to give comparable voltage numbers to 3000's which max out about 360 seconds. Take it for what it is worth. I will definately by the rest of my packs from Chuck in the future. Besides that he told me if I wasn't happy with the batteries he would refund my money. You can't beat that!!!


----------



## DynoMoHum

Why are you guys saying they seem to be playing with discharge figures? They state that they all are at 30 amps and go to .9 volt cuttoff...

The numbers are not much differnt then what SMC is saying... 1.13, 1.14, 1.15.... Heck SMC is saying 1.16s are seen regularly on the high end even before the 'new shipment'.

I really don't see anything to indicate the numbers from World Class are not to be beleived.
(innocent till proven guilty and all).


----------



## pancartom

tempest, i agree with the runtime issue here. i run 4 cell stock, and mod. for mod, i need packs that have good runtime. but for stock, voltage is king...... and you can't compare a cell that does NOT have a full runout on voltage. quite franky, i don't understand why CE even offers that option on their matchers.


----------



## pancartom

dyno, look at the fine print on the GP3300 page. is says that they use a 360 second voltage cutoff. this means that the discharge average voltage stops calculating at 360 seconds. you get the "good" voltage at the beginning of the discharge curve, without the "bad" voltage at the end. the runtime runs out to .90 volts like everyone else does. integy does the same thing with their voltage numbers.


----------



## dgraham225

runtime really isnt that important for me since i run a buggy on an indoor offroad track. its a tight curved track, so the Internal Resistance is one of the most important numbers for me. the packs my uncle got were rated between 20-22, which isnt bad for stock racing. i think i might try them out.


----------



## DynoMoHum

Ah... I didn't see that 360 cutoff... The letters are lite blue on my screen and very hard to read. Previously when I looked at the fine print I didn't see that part...

You know I like the idea of using some cutoff numbers like that, but they should also give the full runout numbers as well...


Quite frankly if those numbers are at a shortende cutoff... (360 seconds) they are not very good numbers. Like I said before, SMC is reporting simmilar numbers with full runouts...

However it we all also should be aware that there are many other variables that effect discharge numbers... room temp, equipment, charge parameters, etc... so it's really not 100% possible to compare ANY numbers from one Matcher to the next... Basicly you buy the best you can afford and hope for the best.


----------



## fhubbard

To all that are concerned, the reason why Chuck cuts the GP's off at 360 is so that you can have/make a true comparision with the 3000 cells. Give him a call before you accuse him of playing games. You know what they say about assumptions...

Fred Hubbard


----------



## rowle1jt

fhubbard said:


> *Give him a call before you accuse him of playing games. You know what they say about assumptions...*


 I didn't accuse or assume any thing, he tells you that he manipulate's the #'s on his website! So atleast he is honest about it.  

I don't even think Integy tells you.  Which is why I will stick to Pro Match, I trust Jeff. _He also has a a money back guarentee!_ Plus he doesn't manipulate the numbers.


----------



## fhubbard

rowle1jt said:


> *I didn't accuse or assume any thing, he tells you that he manipulate's the #'s on his website! So atleast he is honest about it.
> 
> I don't even think Integy tells you.  Which is why I will stick to Pro Match, I trust Jeff. He also has a a money back guarentee! Plus he doesn't manipulate the numbers. *


rowle1jt- why are you being defensive??? First of all I was mainly directing my post to panacartom, if you read his/her post you will see the connection. Athough I DON'T care for Integy management, I understand why they also choose to adopt this method of matching cells. There is sufficeint evidence to support both methods for matching cells. If we only run for 5 minutes I would want to know how my cells would perform in that time frame. Truthfully, anything after 5 min can be considered irrelevant. But then again I also want to know the max potential of my cells. Calm down pal, but hey if the shoe fits...

Further more, when you use the term manipulation in the way you have it has a negative connotation.


----------



## rowle1jt

Ok "manipulation" = bad choice of words on my part. 

But I still don't like it. I see where your coming from with the 5 minute thing, but I would still rather know the _WHOLE_ run out. It just seems like some matchers do things to make their packs look better. Some still do 20amp #'s, fine but at 30 amps you can weed out weak or bad cells. Is a pack of GREAT 20 amp #'s with 1 weak cell gonna run as good as a 30 amp pack with no weak cells? No it won't, if they are fairly equal to begin with. Discharge rates and cutoffs are the two biggest ways for slime-ball matchers to get better numbers, Chuck is not a slime-ball. I am not saying World Class is doing this, I know a lot of people locally that I repsect _*highly*_ that run World Class batteries. I know he has decent stuff, I just think he could convince more racers to run his cells if he changed to more standard and accepted matching process. 

No, the shoe doesn't fit. Its size 11 and I wear a 13.


----------



## pancartom

fhub.... i read chuck's disclaimer as to why he cuts off the voltage at 360 seconds, and it's admirable that he's up front about it. my question is, what do i care how his cells compare to old HV's? when i buy cells, i want to have at least a fair comparison of voltages of the same type of cells, by reputable matchers. i can't do that with chuck's cells because of the way he rates them. again, his stuff might be the total answer, but from my chair, i can't tell whether that is the case or not.


----------



## fhubbard

pancartom- Then say that, but don't make statements that makes this man and his products appear as if he is playing games, that's not cool. Again I think it's only fair to him and others if you say what you mean and not make a statement with so much ambiguity that also has negative undertones. That kind of stuff is damaging to his reputation. Why am I concerned, because I own a small business and word of mouth accounts for a significant part of our business and it's the same for Chuck and other companies alike. Be nice 

rowle1jt- I can tell you and anyone that I know for a fact that Chuck is very honest about his products. On the other hand, Integy, just from my dealings with their drivers I would say that their cells are SUSPECT.


----------



## DynoMoHum

For what it's worth... SMC is saying they are getting 1.14 volt cells and 1.15 volt cells routinely with full runout. Danny also says that he also gets the ocasional few cells that go 1.16 or higher... This is even without considering some of the cells he recently obtained were up over 1.17 volts per cell... again with full run out...

So to me 1.13, 1.14, or even 1.15 with a 360 second cutoff doesn't sound all that great. Basicly you should be able to get numbers that good with a full run out.


----------



## rowle1jt

fhubbard said:


> *Integy, just from my dealings with their drivers I would say that their cells are SUSPECT. *


 Yeah I would agree, some of their products are awesome. Some aren't. Their batteries are not awesome. The Crystals are pretty good though.

Hey, some thing we agree on.


----------



## erock1331

I set our 4-cell stock record with a 3000 sanyo World Class "Factory Boys" pack. Right now it is my best pack even better than my GP 3300's. But I ordered 2 more of those factory boys packs and they are dogs, so for me it was hit and miss. But I think the last batch were the last he had so the numbers were down a bit. 

Alot of guys run his packs at our track. I have heard though he hasn't been getting real good numbers though lately but that could be all hearsay.


----------



## The Jet

Dyno, you beat me to it. 1.13-1.15 voltage calc. at 360 seconds is terrible. I don't think ANY GP cell would be that bad.

I have a friend who races World class batteries and all his cells come with 5000 runout numbers. Are they accurate??? On his T-30 they're within reason.


----------



## The Jet

I think the hit and miss thing is because of the relitave resistance in use. Actual resistance packs run like they're supposed to.


----------



## dgraham225

wow, got kinda rough in here since i last read it.


----------



## Tempest2000

take it all in for what it's worth. opinions are well you know. That's why we have forums... take experiences from everyone and make your own decision. I can say that I heard bad things about Chucks batteries from people who had a partial ride with world class. Then again I've heard people sing praises about them as well. I just recycled my packs again after 3 months and by far they had more run time and voltage than any of my good B & T and Trinity packs purchased at the same time. They seemed to be well matched and retain their numbers fairly well. I attribute part of B & T's battery fall off to only being run at 20 amps... may not have weeded out some of the weaker cells. Trinity batteries were ok they fell off about 15 seconds after 3 months. $.02


----------



## fhubbard

Geez, everytime two people have a difference of opinion about something you people make it out to be something bad. It's like some of you are afraid of direct confrontation. Some of us believe in the idea of "Say what you mean, and mean what you say." Good grief...


----------



## rowle1jt

fhubbard, at least we dis-agree nicely right? LoL


----------



## GareySmiley

I've always had very good results from World Class packs. His numbers have gone up and down depending on what the current batch of cells were like, but they've always been very close on the Turbo 35 to the attached labels. For me it's important for the labels to be true so I know were all my packs are in compareson. A also know that the top of the line packs I buy from them are very close to the packs he gives to one of his team drivers.


----------



## fhubbard

rowle1jt said:


> *fhubbard, at least we dis-agree nicely right? LoL  *


When I think about it I don't even think we really disagreed on anything. We both know that Chuck is cutting the process of at 360. I wasn't really a disagreement, I was just trying to clarify a bit why he does it and I was just asking for a little more insight to be given to others. Heck, we really were in agreement especially about the Integy cells. It just bothers me when people make a "mountain out of a mole hill." I'm not bitter and I know that you are pancartom isn't either. Ahh well, what are we to do...LOL


----------



## Frank Ulbrik

*...*

Over the past 8 years I've ran for many different battery companies, none have been as honest as chuck at world class. If he has good cells, he will tell you, If he has junk, he will tell you. He won't send junk with good labels, like alot of other companies do. His cells always cycle at what is on the label. World Class Batteries are for real. Not sure if it's true or not, but I "heard" through the grapevine that SMC uses a 360 sec cutoff as well.


----------



## rowle1jt

3.60 what???  We were discussing how he stops reading voltage at *360* seconds. 

I'm not exactly sure "what" it is about SMC that you heard.....


----------



## Frank Ulbrik

*..*

thats what i meant, 360 sec cutoff.


----------



## Maverick Racing

Integys packs work amazingly, since their numbers arent real. Well, they are real if you like a 20 amp discharge with 325 sec or so of cutoff. Ive doubted their lables ever since i started to use them. Ive sold all but one of their packs, and use a different matcher now.

They have some good products, and then some bad ones. You know i could make a KILLING off their stuff if I sold it at the retail price, but they wouldnt be too happy.

Right now Im using KMR batteries, and ive been pleased with the cells and the service.


----------



## Guest

couple things i can say,when i call chuck its not how much you wanna spend or gotta go.he'll spend time talking to you about more then just batts.he's down to earth and since running his 3300gp's we couldn't be any happier.he may not have the most flashiest adds in the magazines or stickers all over rc bodies but his cells ROCK!!


----------



## fhubbard

hypercraig14 said:


> *couple things i can say,when i call chuck its not how much you wanna spend or gotta go.he'll spend time talking to you about more then just batts.he's down to earth and since running his 3300gp's we couldn't be any happier.he may not have the most flashiest adds in the magazines or stickers all over rc bodies but his cells ROCK!! *


Amen...


----------



## Maverick Racing

on the world class website it says that the 3300hv have 5000 cutoff, so i dont think he is trying to make the numbers look better.


----------



## fhubbard

Maverick Racing said:


> *on the world class website it says that the 3300hv have 5000 cutoff, so i dont think he is trying to make the numbers look better. *


Look at the bottom on this page, we were speaking about the GP's:

http://www.worldclassbats.com/psmh.htm


----------



## Maverick Racing

Hmmm, I hadnt noticed that. He does all the other cells at 5000 seconds except the GPs...Im going to send an email in the morning to find out why.


----------



## fhubbard

Maverick Racing said:


> *Hmmm, I hadnt noticed that. He does all the other cells at 5000 seconds except the GPs...Im going to send an email in the morning to find out why. *


It's your prerogative, but he does mention why in the little informational. It's to compare them (GP's) with other 3000's (SMH, UMH, HV).


----------



## firechicken

I have to say I don't know too much about the battery matching situation over there now, but I do have to say Chuck is a good guy and has great stuff. At the time, I bought 2000's in late 1997/early 98 and I just retired them at the end of the last season! I set 2 stock track records, one in 97 and the other in 2000 and they weren't even the "best" or "most expensive" cells he had. He hasn't steered me wrong yet, I plan on picking up some GP's from him soon.

My 2 cents!


----------



## DynoMoHum

Well like I say, there are many variables that make 'numbers' vary from one matcher to the next. Most likely there may even be some variation within one mathcers own numbers due to enviornmental and/or equipment changes...

At some point it's probably not worth trying to compare numbers from one matcher to another. Just buy the best you can afford. Eventualy you'll find some place you trust and gives you good value.


----------



## pancartom

can i hear an amen????


----------



## rowle1jt

AMEN


----------



## fhubbard

You guys are funny, I like it...LOL:thumbsup:


----------



## rowle1jt

> _From www.worldclassbats.com_
> * All voltage are calculated at 360 cutoff so comparison is equal to Ultra and Sanyo HV cells.*


There it is, no need for anyone to call him. I don't like it, but I think we have all been over tha before.  LoL


----------



## fhubbard

.


----------



## rowle1jt

Very cool.


----------



## pancartom

way to go, chuck..... that's the way it should be


----------



## Pete_85

*Hey my turn!*

I run stuff from World Class and I own a TurboMatcher 35. He sells the most honest cells I've tried (matching labels to actual TurboMatcher results). Should he run out 3300's past 360 seconds (for the purpose of reporting voltage)? YES, he should. I'm pleased and he's treated me well. I buy all my cells from him, nothing is for free (sponsorship). Now if I only had the rip of "pancartom"!-Pete


----------



## pancartom

you're killing me (wanna try my hobby shop bought SMC's???) :dude:


----------



## fastbrad

So I'm a little late with my .02 on this, but, Chuch & I had a conversation and I kidded him about his new address since I last bought batteries from him, I told him that he must be making a killing off of us poor rc racers to move into a new house, his reply was to the effect that it was his wifes career that was to thank for the new house. So you see, Chuck is a very down to earth, honest guy, if only I could get him to pay my phone bills after I talk with him for 2 hours at a time.


----------



## psycho02

I will say this I have been using world class batteries since I started racing seriously in 1997 YOu can fuss and fight about those numbers and how the matchers come up with them all you want to, but I know this I have a HUGE box of trophies and ribbons and any other awards tracks give out As well as been in the top 10 and top 5 on the mars series (for everybody from michigan) every year I have raced on it. So I will run nothing but World Class until there is no more World Class.


THANKS CHUCK.


----------



## Jamie Hanson

I figured I should throw in my opinion... When I first started racing 10 years ago I bought packs from Chuck. Now 10 years later I am buying from him again. I actully talked to Chuck today for a little while just to learn a thing or two. The man is FULL of wonderful information. He will tell you how it is and nothing else. I ordered some batteries a couple weeks ago and threw them on a matcher I have here just to see, and sure enough, Runtime, voltage, internals, and even the MWH were identical.

I see everyone talking about the 3300gp cells.....Has anyone tried the Sanyo 3300s Chuck has? That is all I have been running. I have not yet had a chance to try a GP cell. His 1.141 voltage with 25 or 26 internals will keep up with 1.15 GPs with 16 internals from other companies. I too use to worry about internals of a cell but he explained to me why the internal is what it is. "You can not compare apples and oranges." The Sanyo cell and the GP cell are two totally opposite designs in cell structure. The cell walls are thicker on one than the other, which causes internals to raise or fall. On the same note, TEMP. of the cells play with internal #'s. The GPs normally get a little warmer than a sanyo which in turn contributes to lower IRs. Ever try cycling a pack with a heating pad on top of it? Ever try cycling a pack with a fan blowing on it? Those two factors play A LOT on internal #s.

Either way, I love the Cells from Chuck at World Class I have and that is all I am going to run from here on out. Besides, It is always a joy to talk to Chuck. He is one of the nice guys in the hobby.


----------



## artee

*World Class...*

Great batteries for the money. I've had the 1700's, and now some sanyo 3300's. Some of they guys at my track pool our $ together and buy in bulk about once a year. Then we all have some new batteries to race each other with. 

Keep in mind--no matter what the numbers, any brand new pack will beat your old worn out pack. I have a turbo-thiry, but I don't waste my time trying to duplicate someone else's numbers (from any matcher). Just look for the best cells you can afford. Good luck.


----------



## Mayhem

Right -on jamie. Sanyo 3300's are the best kept secret in racing. They cosistantly give me more punch up front and equal finishing times compared to the GP's. Most dont understand this IR thing and just go by what the machine tells. They are a few bucks more and they are just like any of the past sanyo cells. Mine are holding up fine and I like them better than the GP's. If others dont care for them its fine with me, I feel like its a definite edge when using Sanyo's. I think the real reason matchers dont like them is they cost them more to buy and they make less money per cell. Pole Position also sells them, they are a great cell IMHO.


----------



## pancartom

as long as we're talking about sanyo 3300's...... i've raced mine for 4 weeks, and cycled them yesterday for the first time since new. the verdict, junk. going to try and sell them to a sportsman guy this weekend for 20.00 a pack. let me say this again.... GP's rock


----------



## Mayhem

I'd give the matcher a call..30 + cycles on mine, still stout. The GP does appear to be indestructable though and appears to be the better cell for the masses, it seems you cant kill them even if abused. My touring car in the summer heat will be the true test.


----------



## pancartom

na, i cycled the packs after i put them together to get the baseline numbers. same T-35, same room temp, same packs, disappointing numbers.


----------



## pancartom

by the way, they are trinity cells, NOT worldclass


----------



## rowle1jt

pancartom said:


> *by the way, they are trinity cells*


 There in lies the problem.


----------



## Jack Rimer

Ulbrik- You "heard" wrong. It's best to not start rumors. By the way, did you find anyone who would lend you their SMC pack for $200? Who do you run for, again?


----------



## DynoMoHum

Where the heck did that come from? What does Ulbrik have to do with this?


----------



## rowle1jt

*Re: ...*

Dyno, this is what Jack is refering to.



Frank Ulbrik said:


> *Not sure if it's true or not, but I "heard" through the grapevine that SMC uses a 360 sec cutoff as well. *


----------



## katf1sh

the poor ulbrik boys! lol guess they still cant find that crying towel yet? go get'em jack! funny how he would have paid anything for those cells at the birds? but now they are no good? lolol :devil:


----------



## Maverick Racing

katf1sh said:


> *the poor ulbrik boys! lol guess they still cant find that crying towel yet? go get'em jack! funny how he would have paid anything for those cells at the birds? but now they are no good? lolol :devil: *


Ouch!


----------



## pancartom

i can tell this is going nowhere....


----------



## rowle1jt

Yes, so can I. Lets try and keep this thread _constructive_ and _informational_ on World Class Batteries.


----------



## psycho02

allrighty like I said I have used them exclusively for at least 5 years and I would RECOMEND them to anybody.:thumbsup:


----------



## rowle1jt

Psycho, I've seen you drive, and your fast! 

You running the MARS series this year? Lets just hope you don't have to deal with a waterpump the day before a MARS race this year......


----------



## psycho02

Actually it was a waterpump and a complete brake job. But yeah I should be good to go for the mars because I slowed down most of my wintertime racing and put the money I would have spent into a mars fund. I was completely bummed out when I was leading points in stock buggy and could not make it out to the 3rd race. About Chuck's cutoffs and all of that gobblygook I have some 2400's from him that were not done on the 5000 cutoff or whatever and I had alot of people tell me that they were gonna be junk, but those were the batteries that I ran in stock buggy last year and those are the batteries that I will be running in stock buggy this year. I have never had a problem with his cells and will continue to go to him with all of my battery needs. AND before anybody asks NOPE I am not sponsored by him and I am quite sure he does not know who I am, you could call him and ask if he knows Ken Kennedy and I am sure he will say WHO?? But seriously I think his stuff is real good.


----------



## KevinDog

Jake,
I'm even faster than Ken... and I use World Class too.:lol: 

Last year at the Vicksburg MARS race, someone from another battery matching company asked me to use one of his packs in a qualifier (to compare it to my W.C. packs). I ran the about the same time (within a second or two). I know that off-road isn't the best arena to compare batteries, but I think I can drive around Vicksburg with consistancy. I didn't see any difference anywhere. I was told that my WC packs were "junk", but apparently that was good enough to win the Stock truck A main.

I never pay attention to #'s. I just get the best packs I can afford. I never get "the best" choice (factory boys?), but one step lower. I trust Chuck, and I haven't had a battery problem since I started using them (9 or 10 years) - I don't worry about the nunbers game, I just know my batteries seem fine to me.


----------



## rowle1jt

Yeah, I hear where your coming from Kevin, and I know where that battery you ran came from too.  LoL

I don't get that wrapped up in numbers either, the only that I am kinda picky about is my oval packs. #'s can be very important in oval!


----------



## psycho02

True off-road is not as battery dependent as some other classes but Kevin is always in the top 3 of stock truck, I have not ran stock truck in years. But it sounds like kevin is laying down the gauntlet ha ha ha :devil: :lol: I might just have to run some truck now.:thumbsup:


----------



## KevinDog

Bring it on! Actually, I was thinking about getting one of those buggy-things. Ok, let's take the smack-talk over to the MARS discussion and leave these guys to argue about batts. (Jake, you can come too)


----------



## rowle1jt

KevinDog said:


> *Jake, you can come too*


 Been chatting w/ Dave and Jay all day over there....where you been? LoL


----------



## OVAL4EVER

DynoMoHum said:


> *Why are you guys saying they seem to be playing with discharge figures? They state that they all are at 30 amps and go to .9 volt cuttoff...
> 
> The numbers are not much differnt then what SMC is saying... 1.13, 1.14, 1.15.... Heck SMC is saying 1.16s are seen regularly on the high end even before the 'new shipment'.
> 
> I really don't see anything to indicate the numbers from World Class are not to be beleived.
> (innocent till proven guilty and all). *


DYNO...go back to the world class site and actually read the bottom of the page where the foot notes are. They TELL YOU they are doing this right up front.the guy is 100% correct. don't compare worldclass 1.15 to promatch 1.15s, world class would have to produce a 1.16 or better to compare to a promatch that calulates voltage over the entire cycle, this is the only reason I won't spen omne penny with world class, I want to know full cycle numbers, reguadless of what I pay, same goes for the nerds out there deciding to swich to an OHM reading instead of IR...they can keep them...don't care who swears buy them.
If a cell is that good then report is aributes in the standardized format, and full cycle averages.
sorry, to me ANYONE who "fiddles" with stuff, id NOT doing it for YOUR nbenifit...it's for their own.
Doug B.
Team B.R.C.


----------



## erock1331

I spoke with Chuck on Monday. They are now showing thier numbers at a full run-out, no more 360 sec cutoff. So now he will be on the same method at SMC, Pro-Match, etc.


----------



## OVAL4EVER

it's about time. tried to email a few questions about this, but got no reply, but Im just a possible customer.


----------



## DynoMoHum

You know... I just cycled some packs yesterday, and I have an intersting observation... My newest packs have longer run times, and higher voltages listed on the lables. There was some question as to if the matcher of my newest cells was using 360 second cuttoff to calclulate voltages... anyway...


When I cycled my packs yesterday, I noticed that these newer packs have the same voltage as the older ones though the first half of the dishcarge curve, after that the older packs start to loose voltage, and eventualy drop off. The newer packs have significantly higher voltage during the second half of the discharge then do the older packs. The reason I bring this up here is... I could see where you might actualy be able to obtain higher average voltage with full run out then you might with a 360 limited runout... it all depends on how the pack is holding up near the end of the discharge.

SO... I'm not even sure that you can automaticly assume that voltages will be higher with a shortened time period... Full runouts may actualy yeild higher average voltages in some cases.


----------



## DynoMoHum

Maybe it'd be better if we could see average voltages listed for cells at more then one spot in the discharge curve... for instance... 1.19 volt average though 60 seconds, 1.18 through 120 seconds, 1.17 through 180, etc... 

I'm begining to better understand why some people are saying voltage numbers don't matter much... I don't agree that higher voltage doesn't matter, but I'm thinking that full runout average voltages may be somewhat misleading, no matter how you figure them... There is much more going on, then these average voltage numbers show.


----------



## mel

There are quite a few racers who buy their batteries by run time. The belief is that the voltage will be higher at the 240 sec. mark. Another place they look is how many sec. there batteries had above five ( the start of discharge). Example - 100 sec. when it dropped to 4.99 volts.


----------



## SuperXRAY

Hmmmm...interesting posts here. World Class batteries are top-notch. As spoken in a previous post, my best packs (for general racing) were not even matched by Chuck, but they came from his shop as "left-overs". I bought them way cheap, and they've held up extremely well. I tried Orion batteries and a couple Integy packs...but I am very confused with those companies:

I can buy GP3300 Factory Boys, as stated on WCB's site for $59.75
I had to pay $65.99 for the Orion pack, and they packaged them with 3 GREAT cells in the visualization box, and 3 comparatively CRUMMY cells on the other end, what a rip.

I'll continue to use WCB...Chuck is a nice guy and has been honest with me so far. He certainly hasn't minded telling me that his better batteries are the cheaper ones (comparing GP to Sanyo).

As for the performance issues (stated on Page 1 of the posts), Battery manufacturers tend to lose sight after a while. They come out with a product and the QC (Quality Control) is high. Then they spend that money recovered to develop new products, gradually decreasing the QC for current products. I think that relates to Political Economics?  Anyways, Chuck has always been upfront with me, and when I win the Nationals in 5 years *smirk*, I'll be proud to have WCB stickers all over my stuff.

As for the discharge voltages...there is a company that makes a cycler/matcher that stores/prints info just like a good dyno. you get graphs and everything, I'll try and come up with a link to their stuff.

Oh, and don't forget, Trinity owns or plays a role in everything that makes anyone any money in the R/C world. Sad to say....Racing may be competitive, but I'm not sure making the products is!


----------



## DynoMoHum

T35BLs allow you to print a graph that represents the discharge curve. The newer GFX units actualy offer several ways to get data from differnt points during the discharge. I think one way they allow it is through the ablity to spit out the actual voltage at like 10 second intervals or something...

It's fairly clear that there is more then one way to look at discharge data and how to determin what it is likely to mean in terms of on track proformance. (just like with a dyno)

Oh... how I would like to have a new CE GFX...


----------



## Fred B

I'm not trying to say that what any one matcher does is correct, but, there are reasons to "normalize" or cut off the voltage numbers on batteries. What Mel is talking about with the 5 volts at some time is just another way of comparing batteries with different runtimes.

Unfortunately the industry standard is the full run out and every matcher should provide that number along with any "early" cutoff that they use.

Just as an example, if you have 2 cells with say [email protected] and [email protected] The cell at 430 is handicapped becasue it has to discharge for an extra 30 seconds. If you set the voltage cut off for this cell to 400 seconds, you will probably find that it has the same or more voltage than the 400 second cell. If you only need 400 seconds at 30 amps, the 430 cell is actually better even though it shows less voltage on the label.

The more I think about it, I like the idea of measuring how long it takes a 4 cell pack to go below 5 volts. I'll have to check my 12th packs out.

One last thing...If you use the entire discharge (in mod for example) then any early voltage cut off is BS. Early cutoff's are only useful if you're only using about that much of the cell's capacity.


----------



## JeffM

Noticed the posts up here concerning cutoff times during matching.
I agree with Fred and Mel.
We have been doing a full 5000 sec run out matching process "industry std". Along with that a "race volt match", this is a lower amp discharge and a timed cutoff matching process.
I have seen cells that are considered to be a "racer" grade have just as much volts as "team" grade cell during a time cut off cycle. This goes right along with what Fred is saying.
Along with what Mel is saying.... I have been doing this when comparing packs. Which one holds xxx volts the longest. I really like this way when sorting thru many packs prior to a big race.

Jeff
OTEC Racing


----------



## BadSign

I cycle my packs differently according to what track I'm at. With 6 cell stick-packs, I discharge at 25A down to 5V, because that's the closest comparison I can make to track performance. It's worked quite well for me, even if "sportsman" stock isn't considered the pinnacle of oval racing...


----------



## DynoMoHum

I think it goes back to something we were all agreeing to last week... about all you can do is to find a matcher you trust, and buy the best you can afford.

For me the ideal situation would be to give me averages at regular intervals, like 60, 120, 180, 240, 360, etc... But this would require some big lables...  along with the full runout of course.

I also think looking at mWh would be the best for Mod... Highest mWh should mean most total power.


----------



## adamkpro3

without a full runout, you will not be able to compare your cells to other matchers, which I think stinks. I only have trinity packs but am now switching to pro-match. I have heard very good things about his batteries, and his numbers are very accurate with no number manipulating. He has some gps on the web site 1.16+ at 30 amps


----------



## Tractionroll

Never had a pack of World Class that ever ran good.


----------



## psycho02

What class do you run tractionroll? because I run off-road and I have never had a pack of them run bad. the reason I ask is I am wondering if because I run off-road and and offroad is not really "battery dependant" to be fast if I am just not noticeing something.


----------



## Jamie Hanson

psycho02 said:


> What class do you run tractionroll? because I run off-road and I have never had a pack of them run bad. the reason I ask is I am wondering if because I run off-road and and offroad is not really "battery dependant" to be fast if I am just not noticeing something.


I would like to add I run oval and these are the ONLY batteries I use. I have had nothing but great luck with them. Just treat the batteries exactly how Chuck from World class tells you to. They will perform for you.


----------



## dgraham225

alottta discussion in here! seems like nothing but good praises on his packs. after i get my 16x9, its either promatch or worldclass matched cells.


----------



## rowle1jt

Now I gotta but in here, *Pro Match*.


----------



## dgraham225

haha, i knew i would get that reply. seems most people prefer promatch cells over any other matcher. either one is fine for me since i am in offroad. only number that i usually watch is the IR. voltage is good, but more punch is better. especially with the newest track layout!









(unfinished)


----------



## psycho02

Here is a tid bit that u all might not know the nice fella that owns and operates pro-match (Jeff Roe) used to work with Chuck Starry


----------



## Guest

psycho02 said:


> Here is a tid bit that u all might not know the nice fella that owns and operates pro-match (Jeff Roe) used to work with Chuck Starry


and geuss what?i've bought batts from both and they both run great i use 3000's from jeff and 3300's from chuck and they run great both guys are excellent for the hobby because their customer service are top notch!i know at our biggest race up here at k/n someone won both 4-cell mod and 4-cell stock running chucks batts.


----------



## psycho02

hypercraig14 said:


> and geuss what?i've bought batts from both and they both run great i use 3000's from jeff and 3300's from chuck and they run great both guys are excellent for the hobby because their customer service are top notch!i know at our biggest race up here at k/n someone won both 4-cell mod and 4-cell stock running chucks batts.


Me too I have batteries from both and both are good especially for the price.


----------



## Tractionroll

Sprintcar20 said:


> Tractionroll: Maybe if you would take care of the batteries the way Chuck describes in his packaging, you would like them more. Then if you did that, maybe I wouldn't have been consistantly 2,3-4 laps faster than you on oval. I don't know, just a maybe.
> 
> Then again maybe if I were to use your batteries I might be able to win a couple Nationals.
> 
> Just a thought.
> 
> WORLD CLASS STILL ROCKS. Keep up the good work Chuck and Thanks again,
> 
> Eugene Ryder :thumbsup:



Laps faster, thats a good one. You are the man, LOL Hey can I get some speed secrets from you.


----------



## adamkpro3

dgraham225 said:


> haha, i knew i would get that reply. seems most people prefer promatch cells over any other matcher. either one is fine for me since i am in offroad. only number that i usually watch is the IR. voltage is good, but more punch is better. especially with the newest track layout!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (unfinished)



I just ordered some promatch cells and I would say go pick some up. The latest GP's have Internal Resistance as low as 14 in the good packs!!


----------



## adamkpro3

I just got my pack from pro match. Wow this thing is awsome. One cell is 1.159 av with a 13 IR


----------



## Promatchracer

I just got mine in from Promatch 1.169 with 13 IR 
Will run them on Saturday to try and beat my Track record in pancar


----------



## fhubbard

This is a WORLD CLASS Batteries thread, please start a Promatch Batteries thread if you guys want to discuss the particulars of their packs...


----------



## dgraham225

fhubbard said:


> This is a WORLD CLASS Batteries thread, please start a Promatch Batteries thread if you guys want to discuss the particulars of their packs...


i STARTED this thread for a discussion on World Class batteries in comparison to others like promatch, SMC, etc.


----------



## Promatchracer

fhubbard said:


> This is a WORLD CLASS Batteries thread, please start a Promatch Batteries thread if you guys want to discuss the particulars of their packs...




Sorry to quote you earlier in this thread Why so defensive

We are just chatting back in forth about batteries
dgraham225 wanted to know info on batts with World Class inperticular 

Sorry if this information upsets you


----------



## fhubbard

dgraham225 said:


> i STARTED this thread for a discussion on World Class batteries in comparison to others like promatch, SMC, etc.



You have got to be kidding me:

dgraham225-I'm not concerned about what you STARTED. If you wanted the thread to be about comparing different matchers cells, then it should read just that, not "any opinions on World Class Batteries?". :thumbsup: 

PromatchRacer-Upsets me  How you would ever equate my saying to stay on topic and being defensive is WAY beyond me. Would you care to explain YOUR logic???...


----------



## dgraham225

fhubbard said:


> You have got to be kidding me:
> 
> dgraham225-I'm not concerned about what you STARTED. If you wanted the thread to be about comparing different matchers cells, then it should read just that, not "any opinions on World Class Batteries?". :thumbsup:
> 
> PromatchRacer-Upsets me  How you would ever equate my saying to stay on topic and being defensive is WAY beyond me. Would you care to explain YOUR logic???...


well, exactly who are you to tell me on how a thread should be named? the title doesnt have to be a full description on the thread, just a general statement on what you will be reading. sorry if you dont feel the same....

fact is, opinions on world class have already been stated. that has been covered, and now on to comparison with other companies. just chatting man.


----------



## Tempest2000

I think fhubbard needs to go start his own thread so he can talk about whatever suits him :thumbsup:


----------



## fhubbard

Tempest2000 said:


> I think fhubbard needs to go start his own thread so he can talk about whatever suits him :thumbsup:


I think Tempest2000 needs to speak when spoken too :thumbsup: ...


----------



## DynoMoHum

Come on... this thread exsisted quite peacefully for a long time, it really was just a general discussion of how World Class and other battery matching companys compared and what may or may not be good points about them.... 

I see absolutely no reason for this last exchange of words...

I'm still useing my ProMatch batteries and also the newer PowerPush batteries...

I'm also thinking about trying some OTEC sets of batteries...

THe bottom line is.... Calm down folks or Hank's not going to be happy, and we don't want that.

Have a nice day.


----------



## dgraham225

DynoMoHum said:


> THe bottom line is.... Calm down folks or Hank's not going to be happy, and we don't want that.
> 
> Have a nice day.


yea, im gonna have to agree with him and end my arguement here. sorry, Hank, for all of the arguing. :tongue: :lol:


----------



## Guest

Refering to post # 83, the Victor Super2 posts the discharge and charge info every ten seconds, I've been storing all my pack info on an old 386 computer,, can just bring up a pack and check the numbers at any point,,, also, I've used a lot of Chuck's stuff---> motors, batteries, brushes, he had the best prices on bulk brushes,, all of his products performed well..


----------



## Tempest2000

can't we all just get along??? :dude:


----------



## rcgen

Has anyone ordered batteries from World Class Batteries recently?


----------



## XLR82XTC

world class batteries has decided to quit business quite some time ago


----------



## OVAL4EVER

BWAH! HAWWW! HAWW!

Man we racers can argue over anything can't we?


----------



## dgraham225

wow, back from the dead, huh? i thought this thing would be long gone......


----------



## OVAL4EVER

LOL! we get board easy too!


----------



## dgraham225

well just an update, i have been running Orion packs exclusively for about 4 months now and dont see myself turning back. all of my packs are in the 1.183-1.195 range, all 438-462S runtime categorie, all matched at 30A and with the same 5000s runout time as all good matchers. phenomenal.


----------



## Joe Novak

As far as I know world class is up and running strong with a new owner and the batteries are pretty fast,at one of our local tracks the modified oval record was set with world class batteries in Kevin Klybers custom works car!


----------



## OVAL4EVER

Wow Joe, Sounds like it to me. Any chance the New owner has a Website going?
I Run against One of the old Team drivers, and his crew on a regular basis. I have to say they allways were on top of their game, never lacking anything in the battery Dept.


----------



## rcgen

Here's a link World Class Batteries Eugene Ryder is the person who took over. I ordered a couple of batteries a few months ago...great batteries and numbers for the price :thumbsup:


----------



## James Clegg

Eugene Ryder is a FRAUD Beware!!!!!! see the trader forum for more info....


----------



## tfrahm

Not to be contradictory, but (DIRECTLY from eBay):


> Member Profile: 11maxim (31)
> Feedback Score: 31
> Positive Feedback: 100%


It seems highly unlikely that a "FRAUD" would have a 100% positive feedback...???

Shouldn't you post your feedback to make eBay'ers aware of your issues?


----------



## The Jet

I know Eugene and have NEVER had a problem with him. He's helped me out many times, fun guy to race with.

*JAMES,*
If your going to _BASH _someone, the least you could do is elaborate a little.

Later, Bret


----------



## Todd Putnam

I don't know how much truth there is to the allegations, but you may want to check out the dirtoval dot com site and read the "suggestions" thread...
Like I said, not sure what's going on, maybe Eugene will clear the air,(or already has) with all the rumors and finger-pointing that has been going his way regarding bad deals and fraud...
Last I heard Eugene Ryder bought World Class from Chuck when he got out, so the thread may be relevant...


----------

