# Yet Another 1:350 Enterprise Refit



## barrydancer

Finally able to begin building my 1:350 Enterprise Refit. Decided to start with the shuttlebay, as I don't have all the paints for the hull. (And I need to learn how to use an airbrush!) I decided to paint the clear ceiling pieces with Model Master clear blue, but it went on very runny. Needed multiple coats to look ok, but it seems way too dark to use for the deflector when I get around to that part. Any suggestions? Spraying, perhaps?


----------



## Landru

I'd say you have a really good start there. Look forward to seeing more

You will have fun with an airbrush, they are the coolest things.


----------



## barrydancer

Thanks. I got a big stack of paper plates to practice on before I get anywhere near Enterprise!


----------



## AJ-1701

barrydancer said:


> Thanks. I got a big stack of paper plates to practice on before I get anywhere near Enterprise!


Looks good so far. I also know what you mean re the paper plates though I practiced on everything from painted mdf, cardboard to plasticard before I felt sure enough to tackle the model... :freak: now I wouldn't be without my airbrush.

Look forward to more updates. :thumbsup:

Cheers,

Alec.


----------



## barrydancer

Did I really start this thread four years ago?!?!? And then not update it?

Long story short, had kids, so it took years of off and on to finish, only to suffer catastrophic failure attaching the saucer! (Before you ask, my idiot self thought the fit was too tight onto the neck during test fitting and enlarged the holes in saucer and pared down the pegs on the neck...meaning no amount of glue would get that heave thing to stay on.)

Anywho, I bought a new one and started over recently. I salvaged the shuttlebay from the old one and am using it with few changes from the pics above. This one will be azteked with OrbitalDrydock's masks with Wasco iridescent blue and Tamiya pearl white for the patterns. (I'd love to do more, but two babies and not a lot of time preclude that.)

I'll endeavor to keep everyone up to date with the build, but it'll be a slow process.


----------



## Garbaron

Great to hear, make sure to show off some WIP pictures this time around.


----------



## barrydancer

A little progress. Shuttlebay and arboretum installed. The arboretum and officer's lounge were also salvaged from my last build. I'm still waiting on my paints to arrive, but I did get my masks from Orbital Drydock today. Very nice, and it looks like they now have the correct saucer pattern, but the secondary hull aztec looks way off to me. I'll probably do my own with masking tape or friskets.









Slightly modified shuttlebay.









Let's say they're apple trees.









Installed









Warp grills in progress.


----------



## Garbaron

Looking good! 
But .. and I know the instructions say so .. the turbo shafts in the cargo area are upside down. The "fat end" goes up!


----------



## barrydancer

I never noticed that in TMP. Good thing you can't hardly see them inside the model without some lighting!

Bottom and sides of the secondary hull installed. The starboard side had a bad fit and needed a little sanding to make the seam where it meets the bottom more flush. Test fitting the top reminds me of just how bad the seems in this area can be.









The front isn't too bad.









The rear, however, is going to be a paint in the, well, rear. lol

I can see that what's causing the problem is where the anchors meet inside for the two halves of the warp pylons. This is keeping the top from laying flush with the sides of the hull. I'm going to sand down the anchors as much as I can to alleviate the gaps and then putty what gaps remain.


----------



## barrydancer

And here's my birthday present today from my wife. I can't wait to get started on it!


----------



## barrydancer

A boatload of sanding the interior of the pylons with some 60 grit later, this was the best I could do. Off to putty now.









Much tighter gap here.









Here, too.









Best I could do in the rear. Still needs quite a bit of putty on the lower pylons to make them flush.









Gonna need a little work.


----------



## barrydancer

A little update. The secondary hull is constructed and I've finished puttying it. I'm not fully happy with some of the seams, but I can live with them. Now to clean all the bondo residue off, mask the windows, and put on a coat of Tamiya white primer.

Also, despite looking at photos of the filming model hundreds of times, I never noticed that the recessed vertical lines on the neck on both sides on the green stripe, as well as the ones behind the leading edges of the nacelle pylons, are actually flush on the filming model. I'm debating filing them in, but I like how having them makes those areas easy to mask off.









Rear view









Pylons and rear neck









Port arboretum









Starboard









Forward view


----------



## Garbaron

Nice progress. Keep it up.


----------



## barrydancer

Now what you've all been waiting for...PAINT! Or rather, primer. I've gotten the nacelles and secondary hull primed. Again, there are some areas I'm not happy with, but I'm not a professional and can live with them. She'll look good when she's done. Other parts, however, are driving me up a wall!









Starboard side









Don't like these seams, but I can get over rather than go nuts fixing them.









Port arboretum.









Starboard arboretum.

Now HERE comes the part that's driving me up a [email protected]%$&*g wall!










This seam on the pylon WILL NOT stop cracking. I've repaired it three times, and I'm ready to break the thing apart over it. The first time it cracked was after I first primed it. No big deal, I though, that's what primer is for, to show imperfections. I sanded and refilled it and primed it again...and it cracked again. Fixed it...cracked again. Fixed it...and it cracked again! At this point, I'm ready to just leave it and let it go. Maybe if I set the model aside for a few days and come back to it, I'll be more inclined to repair it again. I've been using Bondo spot putty for everying. Anyone got any other suggestions?


----------



## 1701ALover

barrydancer said:


> Now HERE comes the part that's driving me up a [email protected]%$&*g wall!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This seam on the pylon WILL NOT stop cracking. I've repaired it three times, and I'm ready to break the thing apart over it. The first time it cracked was after I first primed it. No big deal, I though, that's what primer is for, to show imperfections. I sanded and refilled it and primed it again...and it cracked again. Fixed it...cracked again. Fixed it...and it cracked again! At this point, I'm ready to just leave it and let it go. Maybe if I set the model aside for a few days and come back to it, I'll be more inclined to repair it again. I've been using Bondo spot putty for everying. Anyone got any other suggestions?


I hate to say it, but it looks like you may be having some adhesion issues. It shouldn't be cracking like that, unless the seam wasn't fully cemented. Maybe try sanding it down to the bare plastic and shoot a little superglue at it, let it dry for 24 hours or so, then reshape with putty and prime again.


----------



## Garbaron

What 1701ALover said. 

And accept that you will have flaws on your build.
Thats the way it is, nothing is perfect. Just keep on building.


----------



## barrydancer

1701ALover said:


> I hate to say it, but it looks like you may be having some adhesion issues. It shouldn't be cracking like that, unless the seam wasn't fully cemented. Maybe try sanding it down to the bare plastic and shoot a little superglue at it, let it dry for 24 hours or so, then reshape with putty and prime again.


Thanks. I sanded it down, cleared out the gap, and put some super glue in the gap. Hopefully that does the trick. I figure the pylons were flexing with the engines attached and were causing the bondo to crack. I'm assuming I need to sand the super glue a little after it cures?


----------



## barrydancer

That did the trick! Put the nacelles on for a little while just to see, and no cracking. Now I can move on to actually painting the thing, but I'm looking for some advice on how to proceed.

My original intent was to paint all the areas that are going to be flat (strongback, deflector area, etc.) and mask them off before painting the basecoat on the rest of the model. But then I thought that those flat areas are going to be in acrylic or enamel, while the basecoat is Tamiya's synthetic lacquer. I'm afraid that unless I'm really careful with the masking, or if some of the tape manages to pull up a little while painting, that the lacquer will craze/eat away some of my detail work.

I'm thinking my options are:

1. Do just as I described, and be as careful and and exact as I can with masking off those areas.

2. Mask them off, but don't paint the deflector, etc. until after the basecoats are on.

3. Don't mask, paint the whole thing in the lacquer and then go back and do the strongback, pylons, etc.

Any thoughts?

Also, I used Tamiya fine white primer. Loved the spray, but the finish of it on the model is way smoother than any primer I've ever used. Should I be worried about the basecoat adhering to it?


----------



## barrydancer

Sooooooo...this happened in lots of places.










I drastically underestimated the amount of overspray I was likely to encounter. The parts that are SUPPOSED to be blue turned out very nicely. Unfortunately, a lot more areas wound up with blue on them than should have. 

No biggie, I thought, I'll try to wipe the overspray areas with a little enamel thinner and see if it take it off. It does...but also strips off the primer. 









Like so...

I had assumed that Tamiya's primer was a synthetic lacquer, like their paint, and that the enamel thinner wouldn't affect it, but I was obviously wrong somewhere.

I'm thinking that once the paint has cured, I'll mask off the blue areas, do some light sanding where there was overspray, and hit it with another light coat of primer. Hopefully it doesn't craze. Anyone got any other suggestions?

At least I've learned my lesson when it comes to making sure everything is covered on the model before I go to airbrushing. (I'm still pretty new at it.)

Otherwise, I think it looks good, LOL.


----------



## harristotle

Besides your little hiccup, I'd say it looks great! I've learned the hard way that over masking is better than under masking...


----------



## jgoldsack

Yeah always "fun" to learn things the hard way... I remember when I learned to clamp my model better while building it....





So it could be worse


----------



## orbital drydock

Looking really good Barry!
Trust me, even experienced painters run into overspray.
I use 2000 grit wet paper & very, very lightly wet sand the overspray.
I call it my 2k grit eraser


----------



## barrydancer

jgoldsack said:


> Yeah always "fun" to learn things the hard way... I remember when I learned to clamp my model better while building it....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So it could be worse


OUCH! Well, that makes me feel a little better.  Thankfully this happened early enough in the process where I don't think fixing it will be that big a deal, and I've definitely learned my lesson on over masking.


----------



## barrydancer

orbital drydock said:


> Looking really good Barry!
> Trust me, even experienced painters run into overspray.
> I use 2000 grit wet paper & very, very lightly wet sand the overspray.
> I call it my 2k grit eraser


Good suggestion. I think I'll pick some of that up! I'm also using your masks for this kit, if you're open to any suggestions about them as I go along.


----------



## barrydancer

Progress! The forward deflector area is almost complete. I only have the three protrusions on the sides and bottom to do before moving on to the rear housing. The light gray I used turned out much darker on the model than it looked alone and in testing before painting. I'd rather it be more on the white side, but I'm not about to strip it down and redo it.









Maybe I went a little overboard with the masking. There was very little overspray this time.









Base coat of light gray/pale green mix.









The Orbital Drydock masks applied. The material these are made of is amazing. The right amount of tack, and I was able to pick them up and reposition them multiple times with no stretching or adhesion issues.









Finished product. Like I said, the gray turned out darker than I wanted, but I think it still looks good.









Port side.


----------



## harristotle

Looking really good so far :thumbsup:


----------



## barrydancer

harristotle said:


> Looking really good so far :thumbsup:


Thanks! Love your avatar, by the way. Mustang guy?


----------



## harristotle

barrydancer said:


> Thanks! Love your avatar, by the way. Mustang guy?


Haha... that's putting it mildly. My wife likes to refer to it as an obsession. I've got two of them right now.


----------



## barrydancer

A little bit more work done. The three domes around the deflector are finished. You can't see it, but the green rectangles have a coat of iridescent red on them. Now I'm moving on to the rear housing, a section at a time.


















The gray is actually growing on me, and I think it looks real good now. The Orbital Drydock masks left a bit of a residue this time that marred the finish a bit. I tried to repair it best I could, but you can see in the middle where the paint is uneven.


----------



## barrydancer

harristotle said:


> Haha... that's putting it mildly. My wife likes to refer to it as an obsession. I've got two of them right now.


Awesome. I had an '87 5.0 when I was younger. I miss that car...


----------



## harristotle

barrydancer said:


> Awesome. I had an '87 5.0 when I was younger. I miss that car...


I don't doubt that. Fun cars for sure!


----------



## orbital drydock

barrydancer said:


> The Orbital Drydock masks left a bit of a residue this time that marred the finish a bit. I tried to repair it best I could, but you can see in the middle where the paint is uneven.


residue can happen if it gets too warm, either from outside air or working under hot lights. It can happen with any mask material & it's been a really hot muggy summer.

There's a little trick for residue. I see you use yellow tape for your masking, wait for the paint to dry for a day & then stick yellow tape to the residue & lift it off. Go slowly & work easily.


----------



## barrydancer

orbital drydock said:


> residue can happen if it gets too warm, either from outside air or working under hot lights. It can happen with any mask material & it's been a really hot muggy summer.
> 
> There's a little trick for residue. I see you use yellow tape for your masking, wait for the paint to dry for a day & then stick yellow tape to the residue & lift it off. Go slowly & work easily.


Thanks, I'll give that a try. I"m otherwise quite impressed with the quality of your masks. Top, top stuff.


----------



## barrydancer

Alright, finally done with the deflector housing. From about 4 feet away, I think it looks amazing. Get in close, and you can see where I had to fix quite a few things, lol.









I decided to repaint the rear section of the forward housing where it meets the dorsal, and along the rear edge, a darker green to more closely match how it looks to me in TMP.









Starboard view.









Port view.









Lower rear port side.









From below.

I've got some more touch ups to do before moving on to the dorsal stripe and the strongback, but I'm liking how it's going so far. I was worried about how well the colors worked together initially, but the more I look at it, the more I like it.


----------



## harristotle

Looking good so far! I think the colors you chose work pretty well. One of these days I'll give one of these kits a shot...


----------



## Garbaron

Looks great. 

Two things to enhance it: 

- After two three days of let drying do a wet sand pass with a 1000 grid sanding paper. Removing the rough masking edges will bring out the patterns even more. 

- The Aztec on the forward secondary hull has small squares scattered over it that break up the even look, the squares have are of lightest grey / beige in that area. Here is a shot of my Refit where you can see the small squares. 

 
Hope this helps


----------



## barrydancer

Garbaron said:


> - After two three days of let drying do a wet sand pass with a 1000 grid sanding paper. Removing the rough masking edges will bring out the patterns even more.



You read my mind! My next question to anyone out there was going to be what's a good way to reduce the paint edges. Thanks. :thumbsup:


----------



## Trekkriffic

Nice looking work so far with those Orbital Drydock masks.


----------



## barrydancer

Adventures in wetsanding! My first attempt not only smoothed out the paint lines, but took away a lot of paint. Had to repaint a couple areas, but I think I got the hang of it now. At least I'm learning plenty of lessons as I go...


----------



## Garbaron

Sorry to hear that. But yes, wet sanding must be done carefully. If you use acrylics even more since they are water based.


----------



## barrydancer

Garbaron said:


> Sorry to heat that. But yes, wet sanding must be done carefully. If you use acrylics even more since they are water based.


I think that was part of my problem. I'm using Model Master acrylics for this area. The aztek will be done with Wasco acrylics, too, so,I'll have to extra careful.


----------



## jgoldsack

I don't wet sand to bring down lines when I paint with acrylics. I just use a super fine grit and go carefully. I then wipe the excess with a slightly damp cloth.

I also go a lot lighter as well so I have less to do.


----------



## barrydancer

jgoldsack said:


> I don't wet sand to bring down lines when I paint with acrylics. I just use a super fine grit and go carefully. I then wipe the excess with a slightly damp cloth.
> 
> I also go a lot lighter as well so I have less to do.


Like a 1500 or 2000 grit?


----------



## jgoldsack

barrydancer said:


> Like a 1500 or 2000 grit?


I think i used a 1000 or something.


----------



## barrydancer

Quite a bit of progress since the last update. The strongback and upper dorsal stripe are finished, as are the stripes up the pylons and the blue on the leading edge. The pattern for the strongback (where did that word come from anyway?!) is based off Accreation Models decals, with a few additions of my own.









Let's go strongbacking! My original intent was to trace the Accreation decal patterns onto frisket paper and use that as a mask, but it didn't work out right. Wound up as you see, having to cut out sections of tape to match the pattern.









Port side.









From the rear.









Starboard forward view with blue pylon edge.









Port inner pylon.









Starboard dorsal.









Port dorsal.

I've got some touch up work to do, and some sanding or paint lines left to do. I also need to paint the gray ovals in the pylon edge and the green stripe on the dorsal under the torpedo bay. Then its mask it all off and give her her first coat of white! Probably this weekend.


----------



## harristotle

I'm loving watching this build :dude: 

I've wondered about the whole strongback name origin too...


----------



## 1701ALover

harristotle said:


> I've wondered about the whole strongback name origin too...


The term "strongback" derives from the simple fact that it is 1) the "back" of the secondary hull, if you think about the hull as a space-faring whale or similar creature, and 2) it is (quite by necessity) the strongest part of the secondary hull, as it bears the full brunt of the structural support and stress of the saucer dorsal and nacelle pylons. It's also the area of the external hull that shields Main Engineering, and the horizontal warp conduit, so it also needs to be stronger for that reason. We can presume that, under normal circumstances, it does its job reasonably well, but, as we saw in "The Wrath of Khan", when hit at point-blank range with full-powered phasers, the hull material itself isn't necessarily any stronger than the rest. As for the reasoning for the different color for the strongback and navigational deflector housing and shroud is concerned, my guess is (besides just to make the model something other than, essentially, solid grey/white) to visually denote that it is the strongest and theoretically most well-protected portions of the secondary hull, since it contains the most sensitive and essential equipment aboard the ship.

But that's just my two-slips' worth.


----------



## Garbaron

Looks great! A bit to dark perhaps, but great!!!


----------



## barrydancer

Thanks for the kind words, all. I'm both excited and scared to move forward, as the next big step after the base coats is doing the secondary hull aztec...and I don't really have a clue what in the hell I'm going to do in a lot of areas for masking, lol! Well, I know WHAT I want to do, just haven't wrapped my head around HOW I'm going to do it. Such as the gold borders on the lower and upper parts of the secondary hull, as I don't really have any tape thin enough to mask em.


----------



## barrydancer

1701ALover said:


> As for the reasoning for the different color for the strongback and navigational deflector housing and shroud is concerned, my guess is (besides just to make the model something other than, essentially, solid grey/white) to visually denote that it is the strongest and theoretically most well-protected portions of the secondary hull, since it contains the most sensitive and essential equipment aboard the ship.
> 
> But that's just my two-slips' worth.


Also, Starfleet Academy needed something to do with its Art majors... :freak:


----------



## barrydancer

One of these days I'm going to learn how to use a rattle can so as not to flood an area with paint. I know what I'm doing...I'm too close and moving the can too slowly, but I never seem to correct it.









Exhibit A. I had to wipe the paint while it was still wet because it was pooling on the bottom. I plan to wetsand the area down and try again with a light coat. Best fix I can think of.









Hard to see, but there's a pool of paint below the middle row of windows. 

The paint is Tamiya TS26 Pure White, which is to be followed by TS45 Pearl White. I wanted my white areas to have a little pearly sparkle, and testing showed that having a gloss underneath made it the TS45 shine more. I probably could have gotten the same effect with a clear gloss underneath, but oh, well.

After the pearl white goes on and cures, it's time to start masking and painting on the iridescent colors.


----------



## jgoldsack

Just remember, slow and steady (and multiple thin coats) win the race...


----------



## 1701ALover

barrydancer said:


> Also, Starfleet Academy needed something to do with its Art majors... :freak:


Haha! That works, too!


----------



## Garbaron

Don't we all make that mistake now and than again? 
At les I know I do, especiall after a long break inbetween builds.


----------



## barrydancer

Possibly a silly question, but is it possible for the paint to be TOO smooth and glossy for other paint to stick to? I laid it on rather thick all over and most places are almost glass smooth. I'm worried I"m going to have a problem with any other colors I put on top of it.


----------



## harristotle

If you allow the paint to dry for the proper amount of time and seal with a clear coat you should be good.


----------



## barrydancer

harristotle said:


> If you allow the paint to dry for the proper amount of time and seal with a clear coat you should be good.


Thanks. Do you mean seal with a clear coat between coats of paint, or after everything's done?


----------



## harristotle

barrydancer said:


> Thanks. Do you mean seal with a clear coat between coats of paint, or after everything's done?


Both. If you're going to be doing multiple layers of paint/masks or applying decals, I've learned from the guys here, to apply a coat of clear in between if you're concerned about paint lifting from masks or tape.


----------



## barrydancer

harristotle said:


> Both. If you're going to be doing multiple layers of paint/masks or applying decals, I've learned from the guys here, to apply a coat of clear in between if you're concerned about paint lifting from masks or tape.


Oh, wow. I never would have thought to use a clear coat between coats of paint. I can see the wisdom of doing so before putting down any masking, though.


----------



## orbital drydock

barrydancer said:


> Possibly a silly question, but is it possible for the paint to be TOO smooth and glossy for other paint to stick to? I laid it on rather thick all over and most places are almost glass smooth. I'm worried I"m going to have a problem with any other colors I put on top of it.


In a short answer, yes. Glossy surfaces are better for decals, but bad for painting. Paint needs a "tooth" to adhere well.

As the others stated you can help solve this with a clear coat, BUT clear coat will be the only thing holding the paint down & it can still chip very easily.

Also your run & sag issue can be fixed by wet sanding, without having to sand down to primer. Start with 600 grit wet paper to knock down the sag, then move up in increments 800 grit, then 1000 grit for feathering in the sag. I'll only move to 1500 & 2000 grit for a light overall surface evening just before the decal clear coat


----------



## barrydancer

orbital drydock said:


> In a short answer, yes. Glossy surfaces are better for decals, but bad for painting. Paint needs a "tooth" to adhere well.
> 
> As the others stated you can help solve this with a clear coat, BUT clear coat will be the only thing holding the paint down & it can still chip very easily.
> 
> Also your run & sag issue can be fixed by wet sanding, without having to sand down to primer. Start with 600 grit wet paper to knock down the sag, then move up in increments 800 grit, then 1000 grit for feathering in the sag. I'll only move to 1500 & 2000 grit for a light overall surface evening just before the decal clear coat


Thanks for the tips. I wound up just stripping the paint off the bottom with some lacquer thinner and re primed it tonight. The models panel lines made masking the bottom off pretty easy.

For the glossy surface, would you suggest giving it a light sanding with some 1000-2000 grit to give it just a bit of "teeth" for the next coat? I plan to lay a pearl white down over the gloss white that's already on there for the basecoat color. The aztec colors will go over the pearl white.


----------



## orbital drydock

barrydancer said:


> For the glossy surface, would you suggest giving it a light sanding with some 1000-2000 grit to give it just a bit of "teeth" for the next coat? I plan to lay a pearl white down over the gloss white that's already on there for the basecoat color. The aztec colors will go over the pearl white.


I'd go around 800 dry sanded very, very lightly. Bend the paper into a "U" & sand with the bottom of the "U", 1 or 2 very light passes. Just enough to cuff a matte surface into the gloss, but not remove material. 

Same "U" method works really well for taking down raised edges from paint masking, Just use 2000 grit wet.


----------



## barrydancer

Repainting the bottom of the secondary hull went well, except for one paint blob. (the first I've gotten with these Tamiya cans. I couldn't STOP the things happening with Testor's cans...) No biggie and easily fixed.









You can see it above the last window on the left.

Since the fix has to dry and cure, I decided to start on the detail work on the nacelles while I wait.









Outboard grills masked.









And painted. It's just flat black. I've read how Probert said it was actually a brushed aluminum, but I couldn't figure out a way to replicate that. I thought about doing a wash with aluminum enamel, but I'd probably ruin the black in the process! lol

The super glossy white actually came in handy, as I was able to easily wipe away the little overspray I had with a wet paper towel.


----------



## barrydancer

orbital drydock said:


> I'd go around 800 dry sanded very, very lightly. Bend the paper into a "U" & sand with the bottom of the "U", 1 or 2 very light passes. Just enough to cuff a matte surface into the gloss, but not remove material.
> 
> Same "U" method works really well for taking down raised edges from paint masking, Just use 2000 grit wet.


Thanks again. I have plenty of 1000 grit, but no 800. I'll give the 1000 a try in a couple of out of the way places and see what it does.


----------



## SteveR

Could you dry brush the aluminum? Or maybe try rub'n'buff?


----------



## barrydancer

SteveR said:


> Could you dry brush the aluminum? Or maybe try rub'n'buff?


Good ideas. I may try to do something, just haven't figured out what yet.:freak:


----------



## barrydancer

Lightly sanded and pearl white applied. I didn't like it at first, as it's a little more off white than the Pure White and it's more semi-gloss than gloss, but I'm liking it more as I look at it. It's still smooth, but not quite glass-like like the undercoat was. Just wish the sparklies in it were more apparent than they are.


















You can kinda see the sparklies.

Things I learned today:

1. Tamiya spray layers very thinly, even where you flooded it.

2. Testors enamel thinner will strip Tamiya lacquer away like nobody's business. (No, it wasn't intentional, lol.)

3. Painting in the garage when it's 90+ outside means the spray more often than not dries before it hits the model. Wound up having to move closer to the model to compensate.


----------



## Prowler901

I really like the pearl paint you've used. I think it looks just right. :thumbsup:


----------



## harristotle

Agree with Prowler, looking good so far!


----------



## barrydancer

Thanks for the compliments, guys. Now that I'm getting close to starting the aztec patterns, I'm getting really nervous and worried.

Anywho, detail work on the nacelles is finished. Pics are of the port nacelle. The starboard looks pretty much the same, lol.





































Once I get it all masked off, I'll go over the nacelles in the Tamiya pearl white. Then I can't decide if I should start aztecing the secondary hull or move on to constructing the saucer. I'm leaning towards the latter, that way all the sub assemblies will be done and I can focus only on the aztec patterns.


----------



## SteveR

Just a thought: would you be willing to polish that with a soft cloth to smooth it out a bit?


----------



## barrydancer

SteveR said:


> Just a thought: would you be willing to polish that with a soft cloth to smooth it out a bit?


Possibly. Do I just run a cloth over it?


----------



## barrydancer

Any guesses as to what I plan to aztec first? 










I probably will move on to the saucer next, but I've been dying to try these iridescent paints on the hull.

Preparing these grids, I learned that the stripes on the kit pylons are much wider, especially at the top, than the studio model and the different colored sections are the wrong lengths. This throws off the zig zag pattern from what's on the filming model. I've got the right colors, patterns, and spacing, but since the grids can't match the studio model it isn't an exact reproduction. Which is fine, as I'm going more for the overall TMP look than a 1:1 copy.


----------



## barrydancer

Frisket film did not at all work as I had hoped. Wouldn't lay flat, corners raising, etc. back to the drawing board for the pylons. Probably have to use tape somehow. I've got a couple of ideas...


----------



## lizzybus

...or you could buy Orbital_drydock's amazing masking set?:thumbsup:

Rich


----------



## Garbaron

There's NO green on the pylons. 

Only gold, blue and one "lightingin bolt" in bettween being the ships base color.


----------



## barrydancer

Garbaron said:


> There's NO green on the pylons.
> 
> Only gold, blue and one "lightingin bolt" in bettween being the ships base color.


Are you sure? I'm not saying your wrong, but I see just as much green as I do blue and gold in this picture (from Mutara.net) and have noticed it in some others. (And in galaxyjason's color map, if I'm not mistaken.) There seems to be a small strip of hull color beside the stripe, and then I see gold, blue, and green planks. Even the B&W cloudster photos look tri-colored to me.










I'd like to be certain before I paint it on there. :freak:


----------



## SteveR

barrydancer said:


> Possibly. Do I just run a cloth over it?


*Test on scrap first.* Try various cloths, if that doesn't work, try the finest paper you have. Maybe try rubbing compound. Test first.


----------



## Trekkriffic

SteveR said:


> *Test on scrap first.* Try various cloths, if that doesn't work, try the finest paper you have. Maybe try rubbing compound. Test first.


Steve Neill swears by ordinary paper toweling. I used it on one of my builds over a flat finish to smooth out some raised edges and it worked! You can't wet sand with it obviously.


----------



## SteveR

Neat. Some woodworkers recommend kraft paper on wood, just to give it a lustre. (sort of)


----------



## Garbaron

barrydancer said:


> Are you sure?
> 
> (...)
> 
> I'd like to be certain before I paint it on there. :freak:


As far as I could deceiver its blue and gold only, but I also know Jason says there is red and green. If you ask Paul he'll tell you he used "different hues of the four colors" for his lightning bolt pylon motif. That being said. The picture you posted has a very heavy yellow tint, yellow and blue = green. So what looks green on that picture would be blue. As a second counter argument take this B&W picture



You can clearly make out three colors for the plyon Aztec. One is the pylon base color which carries over to the pylon and is the main hull color. There are the dark lightning bolts which are the gold ones and there is a lighter color between two dark ones, which is blue. However, since we only have the B&W pictures of the TMP Refit I am not discounting another variation: the only constant is the gold pattern, the "blue" one could have been multi colored and used green, red and blue in an alternating pattern. What contradicts this theory is, that red and green would show as a different hue of grey, like it does on the secondary hull, but there is no such variation in the B&W pictures. There are only there hues on the B&W picture, not four, one being the base color (pylon base grey also shows on the pylon itself) there are only two Aztec colors left, one of which are the gold lightning bolts. I had a picture that clearly showd blue and gold (it was an elevated rear view), but I can't find it anymore. But the one you posted can be used to verify by taking away the yellow tint, the green minus yellow would be blue. 

At least that's how I see it.


----------



## barrydancer

Garbaron said:


> As far as I could deceiver its blue and gold only, but I also know Jason says there is red and green. If you ask Paul he'll tell you he used "different hues of the four colors" for his lightning bolt pylon motif. That being said. The picture you posted has a very heavy yellow tint, yellow and blue = green. So what looks green on that picture would be blue. As a second counter argument take this B&W picture
> 
> 
> 
> You can clearly make out three colors for the plyon Aztec. One is the pylon base color which carries over to the pylon and is the main hull color. There are the dark lightning bolts which are the gold ones and there is a lighter color between two dark ones, which is blue. However, since we only have the B&W pictures of the TMP Refit I am not discounting another variation: the only constant is the gold pattern, the "blue" one could have been multi colored and used green, red and blue in an alternating pattern. What contradicts this theory is, that red and green would show as a different hue of grey, like it does on the secondary hull, but there is no such variation in the B&W pictures. There are only there hues on the B&W picture, not four, one being the base color (pylon base grey also shows on the pylon itself) there are only two Aztec colors left, one of which are the gold lightning bolts. I had a picture that clearly showd blue and gold (it was an elevated rear view), but I can't find it anymore. But the one you posted can be used to verify by taking away the yellow tint, the green minus yellow would be blue.
> 
> At least that's how I see it.


Good observations. I think I'm going to throw a few green bolts in there for variety, but not as prominent as the gold or blue.

You know, all our questions could be solved if Cloudster had just used color film, LOL! The history major in me says that color photos of its original appearance have to exist. The model makers, film crew, etc. probably took pictures of the thing. Id be willing to bet people don't even know they have them anymore.


----------



## barrydancer

Holy mother of aztecs, Batman! Please forgive me for gushing over the simple thing I did, but I tried my first aztec panels and I think they're gorgeous. I've been staring at these iridescent paints for over two months and been dying to try them. Gave the gold on the starboard inboard pylon a whirl tonight and I'm loving it. I can't wait to see how she shines with all the colors on her. On a side note, remind me to track down all the people at ILM and elsewhere responsible for destroying her finish and strangle them. 



























Interference mode.









With the flash.

If it's sunny tomorrow, I'll take it outside just to see. Again, forgive my indulgence, but you see all these wonderful pearl builds of the refit, and you never get a sense of how awesome it's going to look until you do it yourself.


----------



## kdaracal

barrydancer said:


> Holy mother of aztecs, Batman! Please forgive me for gushing over the simple thing I did, but I tried my first aztec panels and I think they're gorgeous. I've been staring at these iridescent paints for over two months and been dying to try them. Gave the gold on the starboard inboard pylon a whirl tonight and I'm loving it. I can't wait to see how she shines with all the colors on her. On a side note, remind me to track down all the people at ILM and elsewhere responsible for destroying her finish and strangle them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Interference mode.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With the flash.
> 
> If it's sunny tomorrow, I'll take it outside just to see. Again, forgive my indulgence, but you see all these wonderful pearl builds of the refit, and you never get a sense of how awesome it's going to look until you do it yourself.


Nailed it, sir!!~ Really nice and perfect! whoa. Me likey.


----------



## harristotle

Beautiful job so far! One of these days I will tackle this model... I considered doing my tiny one with an accurate painted aztec, but I think I realized how monumentally insane it would have made me lol. Keep the pictures coming and best of luck to you as you progress!


----------



## barrydancer

harristotle said:


> Beautiful job so far! One of these days I will tackle this model... I considered doing my tiny one with an accurate painted aztec, but I think I realized how monumentally insane it would have made me lol. Keep the pictures coming and best of luck to you as you progress!


I think we'd have to committ you to an insane asylum if you try to aztec that thing.:hat:


----------



## harristotle

barrydancer said:


> I think we'd have to committ you to an insane asylum if you try to aztec that thing.:hat:


I think my wife wonders why she hasn't done that already sometimes :dude:


----------



## Garbaron

Great work, and that pylon work looks eerily familiar to me! 



barrydancer said:


> Holy mother of aztecs, Batman! (...) I can't wait to see how she shines with all the colors on her.


*smal thread Hijacking*
She'll look something like this: 












Since you are experiencing the Aztec work and what it involves to get there yourself, you'll probably have/get a better understanding what it took me to get her look like that. It is an incredible amount of work to do the full Aztec but oh so satisfying when you look at it finished. And YES, people can't fully comprehend / appreciate how awesome it looks in person, since pictures just cannot transport the true look of the colors or convey the effect of the Aztec when it changes color as you move past the ship. 

*returning thread to you*


----------



## barrydancer

Thanks, everyone, again, for the kind the words. This is a hell of a learning experience. Case in point...

I TRIED to do the gold on the port inboard last night. Got it masked and ready, but had the worst time with the Wasco iridescent acrylic paint. The airbrush would stop spraying paint almost immediately and it would only come back if you opened it up all the way. I would get air, basically, but no paint, unless it was at full throttle. This ruined what I was trying to do to the point that I had to quickly remove the masks because it flooded the area so bad and wipe all the paint off before it dried. (I'd had a hard time with the starboard painting, but muddled through.)

Anywho, today I wanted to figure out what the issue was, because I couldn't move on with the model if I didn't. I turned my psi up, I turned it down. No go. I thinned with the company thinner (ammonia and alcohol). I thinned with distilled water. I thinned with straight Windex. I thinned until it was a stretch to call it paint, but it wouldn't flow past the first spray or if you opened up the needle all the way.

The only other thing I could think of before asking for help was straining the paint. I thought maybe since you have to shake the bottle well to mix the sediment sparklies, there were some clumps that didn't mix and were clogging the airbrush. Ran it through some pantyhose, put a couple drops of thinner in, and it flowed smooth as silk.

Long story short, straining seems to have done the trick. You may now return to your day.


----------



## galaxy_jason

I might see some green here. The templates on my website were generated by
someone on Starship modeler that did a lot of research.....

http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tmp2/tmphd0716.jpg


----------



## Garbaron

galaxy_jason said:


> I might see some green here. The templates on my website were generated by
> someone on Starship modeler that did a lot of research.....
> 
> http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tmp2/tmphd0716.jpg


Hm .. I can see gold and blue, but no green.


----------



## barrydancer

Garbaron said:


> Hm .. I can see gold and blue, but no green.


I can see what might be green, between the gold bolts. To the left is a blue and to the right is what looks like a green.

When you think about it, it makes sense that the pylons might have green and a little red. Blue, gold, green, and red are used on the saucer, dorsal, secondary hull, and the nacelles. Why would the pylons be the odd man out?


----------



## barrydancer

And here we go with a little more painting. The gold on the port inboard pylon is done, as well as the blue on its forward section. I couldn't find a decent picture showing the pattern there, so I made up my own. It fits, I think.





































The blue looks like it's going to be a bit more subdued compared to the gold. It doesn't really pop unless you get it at the right angle. Good Lord is it aztecing a tedious process, though...LOL.


----------



## Garbaron

barrydancer said:


> Good Lord is it aztecing a tedious process, though...LOL.


Told ya


----------



## Disillusionist

I did a little Photoshop jiggery pokery with the levels control to bring out the colors in this photo. Looks like a whole lot of green there to me.


----------



## Garbaron

Dang ... yep .. no argument against that.


----------



## barrydancer

Disillusionist said:


> I did a little Photoshop jiggery pokery with the levels control to bring out the colors in this photo. Looks like a whole lot of green there to me.


I'm convinced. Of course, that means more masking for me. (I was going to do it anyway, lol.)


----------



## barrydancer

So, some progress. The gold is done on the port inboard, and the blue is done on the starboard, except I have to redo a couple of bolts due to paint lifting. Also, I started the green on the starboard inboard lower, just to see what it looked like. You'll have to forgive my crappy cell phone camera. Hard to get good pics, it seems.









In case you wanted to do this yourself...









...this is what you get.









Interference for gold and blue.









Gimme the green.









So far so good, methinks.

It's a time consuming process, but it'll pay off in the end. (It better :freak


----------



## Garbaron

The biggest problem here imo is to get all three "lightning bolt" patterns to look identical and interlock perfectly. I found this hard to realize with gold and blue and don't even want to think about adding a third masking layer. With two alone I already got bolts that are too narrow, too wide, overlap, are out of shape, misaligned and so on. As beautifully as the Refits Aztec looks it is a pain in the ass to reproduce its perfect alignment and interlocking ... kudos to Paul Olsen for getting it too look so perfect.


----------



## barrydancer

Garbaron said:


> The biggest problem here imo is to get all three "lightning bolt" patterns to look identical and interlock perfectly. I found this hard to realize with gold and blue and don't even want to think about adding a third masking layer. With two alone I already got bolts that are too narrow, too wide, overlap, are out of shape, misaligned and so on. As beautifully as the Refits Aztec looks it is a pain in the ass to reproduce its perfect alignment and interlocking ... kudos to Paul Olsen for getting it too look so perfect.


I ran into the same issues almost immediately. Im compensating best I can, but it will be far from uniform. It's close enough for my liking and skill level, though, and from a few feet away you can't tell that they all aren't perfectly even.


----------



## Prowler901

You're nutz, Barry. But, DANG! That looks great! :thumbsup:


----------



## barrydancer

Prowler901 said:


> You're nutz, Barry. But, DANG! That looks great! :thumbsup:


HAHAHAHAHA. Thanks! I probably will be nuts after staring at these patterns for a few months! :drunk:

Here's one more of the green in the sunshine. I'll do the blue on the port side next, so then I can do the remainder of the starboard green and all the port at one time. Then I'm moving to a different area rather than do the outboard because I'm tired of looking at lightning bolts...


----------



## Fernando Mureb

barrydancer said:


> HAHAHAHAHA. Thanks! I probably will be nuts after staring at these patterns for a few *months!* :drunk:


:freak:few Month... :freak:few month... :freak:few month... OMG, will my kit ever leave my shelf to my hobby desk?


----------



## barrydancer

Fernando Mureb said:


> :freak:few Month... :freak:few month... :freak:few month... OMG, will my kit ever leave my shelf to my hobby desk?


Hehehe. Keep in mind, I have two small boys to watch all day. The progress in this thread has taken me a little over two months.:dude:


----------



## crowe-t

barrydancer, This is coming along beautifully! The aztec on the pylons looks great!

How do you like using the Wasco acrylic paints? Are they the paints McKenzie now sells under the name Polytranspar?

Mike.


----------



## barrydancer

crowe-t said:


> barrydancer, This is coming along beautifully! The aztec on the pylons looks great!
> 
> How do you like using the Wasco acrylic paints? Are they the paints McKenzie now sells under the name Polytranspar?
> 
> Mike.


Thanks, Mike. Yes, they're the same paints. Overall I like them. If you strain them they flow very smoothly, and cleanup is super easy with Windex. It literally melts it from the airbrush, so I can clean and change colors quickly.

They go on very thin, though, and I've had a few problems with it lifting after tape is applied. That could be from me not properly preparing the surface ahead of time, though. I'd recommend then to anyone who can't use the lacquers for whatever reason.


----------



## barrydancer

Port inboard pylon blue finished. I'll let this set for a couple days and then begin masking for the green.


















Interference









Beauty shot.


----------



## SteveR

Just checking: is your ship white or grey?

(I ask because I'd like to paint mine in a very pale grey.)


----------



## barrydancer

SteveR said:


> Just checking: is your ship white or grey?
> 
> (I ask because I'd like to paint mine in a very pale grey.)


It's Tamiya Pearl White. It has a bit of grayish look sometimes depending on the light.


----------



## 1701ALover

SteveR said:


> Just checking: is your ship white or grey?
> 
> (I ask because I'd like to paint mine in a very pale grey.)


I, too, prefer a pale grey to white. I've always felt that, in person, white just doesn't look "right". She's always appeared very a light grey (or even dark grey, depending on which FX house is handling her) on screen.


----------



## galaxy_jason

1701ALover said:


> I, too, prefer a pale grey to white. I've always felt that, in person, white just doesn't look "right". She's always appeared very a light grey (or even dark grey, depending on which FX house is handling her) on screen.


The base coat is pure white with interference pearl Aztec accents. The A version has some additional light gray random L shaped patches that were applied by ILM.


----------



## 1701ALover

galaxy_jason said:


> The base coat is pure white with interference pearl Aztec accents. The A version has some additional light gray random L shaped patches that were applied by ILM.


No, I know the studio model is white, but on screen, she doesn't look white. To my eye, she's always been very light grey, with the aztec patterns and other details. And that's how I plan to do mine. The grey I've chosen is Testors' MM Light Gull Grey, with a light misting of pearl white over top, then the aztec decals (I don't have the skill or patience to do the aztec myself). Otherwise, as far as details go, it will be straight TMP refit all the way. I just don't like the white...it's too bright for me. And since it's my model, I'll do it my way. :tongue:


----------



## barrydancer

1701ALover said:


> No, I know the studio model is white, but on screen, she doesn't look white. To my eye, she's always been very light grey, with the aztec patterns and other details. And that's how I plan to do mine. The grey I've chosen is Testors' MM Light Gull Grey, with a light misting of pearl white over top, then the aztec decals (I don't have the skill or patience to do the aztec myself). Otherwise, as far as details go, it will be straight TMP refit all the way. I just don't like the white...it's too bright for me. And since it's my model, I'll do it my way. :tongue:


I don't have the skill and barely have the patience to do the aztec, but I figured "What the hell?":hat:


----------



## SteveR

1701ALover said:


> To my eye, she's always been very light grey, with the aztec patterns and other details. And that's how I plan to do mine.


Yep, it's our choice: studio miniature look or screen look. Whatever makes us happy when we look at it on the shelf!


----------



## barrydancer

Bit of a favor to ask. The Cloudster site has been down for awhile now, and that was where I was most often referencing the studio model. Does anyone have a reference library of the TMP refit they might be willing to share? Or at least pics of the aztec above the hangar bay? That's where I'm moving to next and the Ent-A pics aren't much help, as pretty much none of that areas detail is left on it.


----------



## Garbaron

There are not many pictures that show the Aztec above the hangar bay, the B&Ws hhave too much contrast to make it out. It's basically the same pattern as on the lower secondary hull at the Arboretum level. Here are the few I got composed in to one picture 



And what it looks like on my model:




Hope this helps you.


----------



## barrydancer

Garbaron said:


> There are not many pictures that show the Aztec above the hangar bay, the B&Ws hhave too much contrast to make it out. It's basically the same pattern as on the lower secondary hull at the Arboretum level. Here are the few I got composed in to one picture
> 
> Hope this helps you.


Thanks! That's a big help. What colors am I seeing there? Looks reddish and doesn't match what I know is gold on the pylons.


----------



## starseeker

barrydancer, pm sent.


----------



## Garbaron

barrydancer said:


> Thanks! That's a big help. What colors am I seeing there? Looks reddish and doesn't match what I know is gold on the pylons.


Well the Aztec complementary to interference (true colors show) "code" roughly goes like this [the darker a color appears the stronger the color mix]:

yellow-ish / gold-ish = interference blue 
grey-ish / magenta = interference gold
red = interference green
green= interference red

Taking this I concluded that the finer strips above the hangar are gold, just like at the arboretum level / rear nacelle candy cane pattern and create 14 sub-sections in total. Because I had set on a fixed size for my "planks" (3mm horizontally, 6mm vertically) I used 6mm masking tape to create all vertical section, resulting in only 10 subsections above the hangar. Near the pylon base and at about the middle some of the sections have a darker yellowish / brownish color in the references thus should have been interference blue. The sections are broken up by two gold rectangles on both sides and smaller ones scattered randomly. You can make out the colors on my Refit on this shot: 



Hope this clears it up for you.


----------



## Maritain

Wow is that nice! And who said Tamiya tape can't be fun?!


----------



## barrydancer

Maritain said:


> Wow is that nice! And who said Tamiya tape can't be fun?!


Thanks! Tamiya tape is well worth its price, if you ask me. Not too tacky, very clean lines.


----------



## barrydancer

The green is done on both inboard pylons. I think it came out nicely, but masking three colors is quite a chore. I'm having problems with the blue acrylic, though. It doesn't stick very well, so the tape either lifts the paint completely or takes the gloss off. The gloss won't be a problem if I wind up gloss coating the whole thing, but the lifting paint is a pain in the  I may have to switch to lacquer for that color, though I'd rather not if I can help it. 









Starboard pylon. You can see in the middle where some of the blue lifted.









Port interference.









Both pylons in the early morning sun.

Once I go back and fix/touch up the blue, I'll move on to area above the hanger bay.


----------



## Garbaron

Looks great and I had the color lifting issue too. Very annoying since it forces you to fix the paint job and you cant really fix it, you'll always see the touch up. But I must say I like the two colored version (gold + blue and base color) like I have it better, because due to the green there is almost no base color left on the pylons, but there is base color interwoven in to the Azetc everywhere else (secondary hull, dorsal, saucer, nacelles). Perhaps substituting some of the blue bolts with green and the greens being hull color would have had a better effect. 

Just a personal observation. To each his own.


----------



## harristotle

Beautiful job! For the rest of the ship you now know to do the blue last.


----------



## barrydancer

Garbaron said:


> Looks great and I had the color lifting issue too. Very annoying since it forces you to fix the paint job and you cant really fix it, you'll always see the touch up. But I must say I like the two colored version (gold + blue and base color) like I have it better, because due to the green there is almost no base color left on the pylons, but there is base color interwoven in to the Azetc everywhere else (secondary hull, dorsal, saucer, nacelles). Perhaps substituting some of the blue bolts with green and the greens being hull color would have had a better effect.
> 
> Just a personal observation. To each his own.


I almost didn't do the green for that reason, but I made such a stink about green being one of the colors that I had to. :hat:


----------



## barrydancer

harristotle said:


> Beautiful job! For the rest of the ship you now know to do the blue last.


Thanks! Indeed, blue will be the last color I put down wherever possible from now on.


----------



## harristotle

barrydancer said:


> I almost didn't do the green for that reason, but I made such a stink about green being one of the colors that I had to. :hat:


Another option would be to leave a blank spot in the pattern for the base.


----------



## barrydancer

Okay, pylons repaired and most of the painting above the hangar bay complete. I just have to do the golden rectangles and other details. I'll explain why I chose the colors I did after the pics. Without further ado.









Masking in progress.









And the tape for the gold borders removed.

































Interference

As to the choice of green and blue, after staring at all the pics I could find, I decided those were the colors used on the studio model. What finally made the decision was this pic:








The gold is obvious, as it's the shiniest part. On the pylon the darkest bolts are blue and the lighter ones green. I compared that to what you can see of the hangar bay in the pic and decided the two matched. 








That would make the reddish sections on the forward area just before the strongback in this pic interference green, and the more yellowish areas in the middle blue with one green plank, with the dark brown being gold.

Anywho, it may not be right, but that was my reasoning. I left a few areas hull color on mine so as not to cover the whole thing.


----------



## SteveR

Painting the Refit is more art than science, it seems.
I, for one, welcome the subtle variations!

(... leaving the discussion of "art" vs. "science" for another day!)


----------



## jgoldsack

looking great! Looking forward to tacking this paintjob myself...


----------



## barrydancer

I'm looking ahead to decaling and wanted some advice from folks. As I paint the aztec I'm getting a really cool, and unintended, effect from the difference in sheen between the glossy pearl paints and the more semi-gloss/gloss hull color. There's even some difference in gloss levels on the pearls depending on how heavy they're sprayed.

Anywho, my original plan was to glosscoat the whole thing with future before decaling, and then another coat to seal the decals, but now I see doing so will destroy the effect being created by the difference in sheen. I think this issue may have been brought up in one of Trekmodeler's threads, too.

My question is, what happens to decals that aren't sealed. I get that they are a little less protected, but are they more prone to eventually lifting off or cracking or drying out or something? I'm obviously not going to be playing with the model, so I'm not so worried about them chipping. Any thoughts would be appreciated.


----------



## robn1

The multi sheen of the various colors is a part of the aztec look, it would be a shame to ruin it with a clear coat.

The decals need a gloss surface to adhere to, if the colors you used have enough sheen then you should be fine to apply them directly. Protecting them is a problem, but it may be okay if you handle it carefully. Just trim as much clear film from the edges as you can.

If I ever get around to building my refit, I may attempt it this way: paint it overall with a gloss white. Polish and buff it as smooth and shiny as I can. Then apply decals, and seal them with a semi gloss or satin clear. Then paint the aztecs, with very careful masking over the decals. I'll test on a cheap model first of course, but I don't see why this wouldn't work. Masking the decals without pulling them up is the key.


----------



## jgoldsack

Get Orbital Drydocks masks (maybe he can sell a version with just the lettering/pennants?) and paint on the main markings...

its an option...


----------



## Garbaron

The original model used rub on decals which usually are much sturdier then water slide decals. You will need a protection for the water slide decals! Not necessarily the big ones but the myriads of really the tiny ones otherwise, like along the secondary hull spine and the nacelles. If you don't put a protective clear coat on once you want to dust her off you'll end up wiping the decals off too. Also the gloss /mat surface will probably lead to silvering of the big decals and this can also lead to adhesion problems. 

I too loved that gloss matt effect, but I sacrificed it to protect the decals. As always, model building is a series of compromises.


----------



## barrydancer

Thanks for the advice, guys. I'm still leaning towards taking a chance with the decals and not gloss coating, but I've got a while yet to make my mind.


----------



## 1701ALover

What about doing the full-color aztec, then putting a clear coat over it to give it the glossy surface for the decals to adhere to, then another coat to set/protect them, and then doing a clear matte aztec in line with the colored aztec pattern to regain the matte/gloss shift? Feasible?


----------



## barrydancer

jgoldsack said:


> Get Orbital Drydocks masks (maybe he can sell a version with just the lettering/pennants?) and paint on the main markings...
> 
> its an option...


That would be ideal. I've got his set for the refit, and it does include a paint mask for the main registry on top of the saucer, but no other markings. I'll probably give that a try.


----------



## barrydancer

1701ALover said:


> What about doing the full-color aztec, then putting a clear coat over it to give it the glossy surface for the decals to adhere to, then another coat to set/protect them, and then doing a clear matte aztec in line with the colored aztec pattern to regain the matte/gloss shift? Feasible?


Feasible, but I'd probably drive myself insane with all the masking required to isolate only the hull colored areas within the aztec, lol. :drunk:


----------



## robn1

1701ALover's idea would certainly work, but it's like doing the aztec masking _twice_! A variation of this would be to do selective masking: just mask and clear coat the areas where the decals go. Mask along the aztecs to help hide the edges, then spray with clear gloss. Apply decals, then clear flat (or whatever finish you want). This will preserve the surface variations on the rest of the hull.


----------



## SteveR

robn1 said:


> A variation of this would be to do selective masking: just mask and clear coat the areas where the decals go.


Agreed. I had thought of doing the double-masking by drawing up my own aztec patterns and taking them to a sign cutter (asking for two copies), but the idea of trying to match registration wasn't really palatable. So I like your idea of only glossing the areas under the decals, but also using paint stencils for the larger registration marks.


----------



## barrydancer

robn1 said:


> 1701ALover's idea would certainly work, but it's like doing the aztec masking _twice_! A variation of this would be to do selective masking: just mask and clear coat the areas where the decals go. Mask along the aztecs to help hide the edges, then spray with clear gloss. Apply decals, then clear flat (or whatever finish you want). This will preserve the surface variations on the rest of the hull.


Hey, now that's a good idea. It'll be a bit of work, but it's probably the best compromise. Thanks! :thumbsup: Since the whole ship will have multiple sheens, it won't be that out of place if the decal areas are all semi-gloss or flat. Plus, I've got a painting mask for the registry atop the saucer from Orbital Drydock, so the biggest decal can just be painted on.


----------



## barrydancer

I haven't had a whole lot of time to work on the Enterprise recently, so not much progress. I did manage to get the gold on the dorsal done last night, though.









How I masked it. I used the Pendragon grids to transfer the shapes to painter's tape. It's easier for me to do the first color this way. Now I can use the gold as an anchor for the other colors.









And presto chango, it's gold!









Port side interference.

I know the port and starboard sides have slightly different patterns, at least it looks that way to me in photos, but I'm doing both sides the same to save myself some headache. I may mix the colors up a bit on each side, but the patters will likely be the same. 









That moment when you accidentally scratch your hull with the X-Acto knife.


----------



## harristotle

That's the worst! I've done that before, makes your stomach sink... 

It's looking awesome though!


----------



## Garbaron

Very nice.. it's like watching me do the ecaxt same a couple of month back.


----------



## jgoldsack

It's merely a flesh wound!


----------



## barrydancer

Thanks all for the kind words. The dorsal is mostly finished. I still have to do the areas at the very top and bottom with little squares and whatnots. I used Garbaron's color map he did for the basis, with some additions/deletions of my own. Again, I'm going more for the look than a 1:1 copy of the filming model, and I think I achieved that.









Starboard rear in the morning sun. Get the right light and these colors shine!









Starboard forward.









Port rear quarter.









Port mid under fluorescent light. I like this shot because you get the complimentary and interference all on the same panel.









Aztecin' in the sun, y'all.

After this bird, I'm definitely moving to something simpler before I start the 1:350 NX-01. Prolly a K'tinga to unwind...


----------



## Garbaron

I had a feeling I know those paterns ... looks great!


----------



## harristotle

Beautiful! I want to build one of these SO bad


----------



## barrydancer

Would anyone happen to know if there are any aztec patterns on top of the torpedo bay? Can't get a good look at the area in the pictures I got. Orbital Drydock includes masks for that area, and I'm thinking of using them.


----------



## Garbaron

As far as I can tell the Aztec does not extend to the top. 
But if you'd like to do it .. do it.


----------



## SteveR

I love the smooth hull. No paint thickness visible at the masking edges. Love it.


----------



## barrydancer

SteveR said:


> I love the smooth hull. No paint thickness visible at the masking edges. Love it.


Oh, believe me there are plenty of paint edges. You just can't see em in the crappy cell phone pics.


----------



## jgoldsack

barrydancer said:


> Oh, believe me there are plenty of paint edges. You just can't see em in the crappy cell phone pics.


Cellphones: providing quality, crappy pictures since 1999


----------



## SteveR

barrydancer said:


> Oh, believe me there are plenty of paint edges. You just can't see em in the crappy cell phone pics.


I love those crappy cell phone pics. Hide the paint edges. Love 'em.


----------



## barrydancer

The dorsal and torpedo bay are finally finished. These areas were more trouble than I thought they would be and I wound up having to redo some areas on the dorsal. I simplified galaxy jason's template for the torpedo bay, just to make my life easier. It's hard getting the light to shine at the right angle for good pics, but enjoy!










































I wound up not doing any colors at the top of the dorsal, above the pinstripe. I tried some little squares and rectangles and could never get it look how I wanted. 

Next, I'm planning to move to the bottom of the secondary hull and work my way up. doing the outboard pylons last.


----------



## Trek Ace

barrydancer said:


> The dorsal and torpedo bay are finally finished. These areas were more trouble than I thought they would be and I wound up having to redo some areas on the dorsal. I simplified galaxy jason's template for the torpedo bay, just to make my life easier. It's hard getting the light to shine at the right angle for good pics, but enjoy!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wound up not doing any colors at the top of the dorsal, above the pinstripe. I tried some little squares and rectangles and could never get it look how I wanted.
> 
> Next, I'm planning to move to the bottom of the secondary hull and work my way up. doing the outboard pylons last.


The dorsal, along with the impulse deck, were the most difficult sections for me to make appear screen accurate. I had to replace the horribly misshapen impulse exhaust, thin the top of the deck, completely reshape the dorsal top and rear torpedo bay, and round the sharp edges of the torpedo bay - all before dealing with the complex paint scheme!


----------



## Garbaron

Looks great. And yes, doing all the patterns on the dorsal takes a lot of time and effort. 
But its well worth it in the end, as your pictures with the colors popping shows.


----------



## barrydancer

I'm alive, for anyone who's been following this thread.  I just needed to take a little break from the Enterprise and do something else for a little while...read, play some video games, etc. I think we've all been there in trying to avoid burnout. I'm ready to get back to work now, so I should have at least a couple colors on the bottom of the secondary hull done before the weekend.


----------



## barrydancer

See, here's the yellow on the phaser banks. I'm working on it. Honest.


----------



## Fozzie

Take your time. We're not going anywhere. 

Better to take a breather than rush the job.


----------



## Garbaron

barrydancer said:


> I'm alive, for anyone who's been following this thread.  I just needed to take a little break from the Enterprise and do something else for a little while...read, play some video games, etc. I think we've all been there in trying to avoid burnout. I'm ready to get back to work now, so I should have at least a couple colors on the bottom of the secondary hull done before the weekend.


Heheh .. so the Aztec Burnout got you eh? 
Had it happen to me several times on my Refit paint job. 
How Paul Olsen could work on this day in day out for 8h+ for 6 Month is beyond me.


----------



## jgoldsack

Garbaron said:


> Heheh .. so the Aztec Burnout got you eh?
> Had it happen to me several times on my Refit paint job.
> How Paul Olsen could work on this day in day out for 8h+ for 6 Month is beyond me.


Being paid for it is a great motivator.


----------



## barrydancer

jgoldsack said:


> Being paid for it is a great motivator.


HA! That's just what I was thinking. Still, I can't see how he kept from going crazy. :freak:


----------



## barrydancer

Garbaron said:


> Heheh .. so the Aztec Burnout got you eh?
> Had it happen to me several times on my Refit paint job.
> How Paul Olsen could work on this day in day out for 8h+ for 6 Month is beyond me.


Yeah, when you start seeing the patterns in your sleep, it's time to take a break, lol.


----------



## barrydancer

So, I got started on the gold on the belly. Here's the studio model for reference. 










I chose to simplify the pattern a bit, in keeping with my skill level and to reduce masking. There are some prominent patters I wanted to keep, however, such as the long L shapes and the rectangular H in the rear. Here's what I came up with.









Mask for the gold. I just laid down strips of tape and then carefully cut out portions with my knife.









Painted, though it's very hard to see against the yellow tape. Combined with the translucency of the paint as it goes on makes it a pain the rear. I wind up overdoing it because it's so hard to see if you've covered an area with paint or not.

I also realized posting this that I reversed the rectangular H pattern in the back. The border should be gold with the rectangles white...but I'm not about to redo it!  (Late night edit...I did wind up redoing it after all, lol, and moved that section forward a bit. I'll take some pics tomorrow in the sunlight)

After this has cured for a day or so, I'll cover it with new strips of tape and take up the strips in other areas for green and red and blue.


----------



## barrydancer

With some of the tape removed, you can actually see the gold, and the reworked H section near the fantail.










I may get another color on before I go out of town for the weekend, but I'm thinking I'll leave the gold to cure some more.


----------



## harristotle

Great to see more progress! Yeah, always best to air on the side of patience with paint.


----------



## Garbaron

Keep going! 

Its hard and strains your patience but in the end it is well worth the effort ...


----------



## barrydancer

I was able to do the other three colors yesterday without too much trouble. Red was the least used here. 









Interference. As you can see, I went with a rather simple pattern.









In the sun this morning.



















I've got some paint edges to knock down, but that can wait. I may add a little to it later, but for now it's finished.


----------



## Fernando Mureb

Fantastic!  I wonder how long a modeler have to be experienced in the use of rattle cans or airbrush to tackle this job.


----------



## jgoldsack

Fernando Mureb said:


> Fantastic!  I wonder how long a modeler have to be experienced in the use of rattle cans or airbrush to tackle this job.


Honestly it is more a task of masking than it is painting.


----------



## Fernando Mureb

Really?! I don't know... The necessity to accommodate several layers of different colors in a way that none can stand out from the other... man, that scares me.


----------



## barrydancer

Fernando Mureb said:


> Really?! I don't know... The necessity to accommodate several layers of different colors in a way that none can stand out from the other... man, that scares me.


The masking really is the most tedious part. The painting is fairly easy by comparison. I had very little experience with an airbrush before starting this, just one Enterprise-B model with a Testors Aztec. Only a little more with rattle cans. I'm learning as I go. (Though I probably shouldn't have chosen such a big project to start with!, lol) 

My biggest problem is with paint lifting as I mask the different colors. You can fix it, but it never quite matches.


----------



## barrydancer

I've gotten the next section of the lower belly done, though not without some mishaps. More on that later. Also, my new cell phone takes crappy pics that mute the colors somewhat. Anywho...









How I masked for the gold in the "brick wall" pattern. I didn't do near as many horizontal bars as the model really has, but enough that you get the idea. Once the gold was on, I re-covered those areas and then pulled up individual 6mm strips of tape to be the blue.

End result...




































Now to the bad part. I had some lifting of the paint on the belly from the masking tape.



















Could have been worse, but these acrylics absolutely do not want to stick. These paints had been curing for over a week. I can fix it, but these Wasco acrylics seem to be a little different every time you spray them, so it will never match the original coat unless I redo the whole thing.

I've got to get this lifting figured out before I move onto the sides of the secondary hull (and especially the saucer), which require tape to cover painted areas in order to make the patterns. I'll probably hold off on fixing the belly and touching up the brick wall pattern until I've done the sides, because I know I'm going to have to repair the brick wall I just did. May as well do it all at once.


----------



## Garbaron

Looks eerily familiar! 

And yes, if you try to fix a lifted spot the color never matches the original again. I had those issues too and if you look close you can tell where I had to fix things up. 
There is no real way to avoid the lifting, but do small sections instead of a whole area. Also always put the masking tape on your hand two or three times to reduce stickiness since, well just because it say “low tack” doesn’t mean it IS low tack. And those Aztec colors are real divas when it comes to masking them off


----------



## galaxy_jason

That's why I de-cant Krylon clear. It seems to meld into the basecoat. But even it will lift in some cases. I found the best way to reduce it is to wipe down the base coat with rubbing alcohol before spraying it on. 

The Krylon also dries in about 10 minutes, ready for masking over it for the next panel. 

As for the booboos, in some cases you can remove it to the nearest tape line and then tape around it like it was meant to have a small square...like a secondary aztec.

jason ware
galaxyphoto.com


----------



## barrydancer

I think I've decided to clearcoat the Enterprise, after all. I love the flat/semi-gloss/gloss flips, but these acrylics are giving me so many issues with tape taking off their sheen that I think it best to cover them with clear.

I was thinking of putting a very light coat of some form of clear over what I've already painted as a sort of barrier to protect against the acrylic lifting when I go to mask off the next patterns. Anyone ever do this?

I believe harristotle also suggested clearcoating between colors earlier in this thread, as well. Is it OK to paint over clears like Future or Glosscote?


----------



## jgoldsack

barrydancer said:


> Is it OK to paint over clears like Future or Glosscote?


yes. I have done it many times.


----------



## eagledocf15

galaxy_jason said:


> That's why I de-cant Krylon clear. It seems to meld into the basecoat. But even it will lift in some cases. I found the best way to reduce it is to wipe down the base coat with rubbing alcohol before spraying it on.
> 
> The Krylon also dries in about 10 minutes, ready for masking over it for the next panel.
> 
> As for the booboos, in some cases you can remove it to the nearest tape line and then tape around it like it was meant to have a small square...like a secondary aztec.
> 
> jason ware
> galaxyphoto.com


Can you describe the wiping down with alcohol a little more. What do you use to wipe down the kit with? I have had some disasters with some cloths that left residue. thanks


----------



## robn1

eagledocf15 said:


> Can you describe the wiping down with alcohol a little more. What do you use to wipe down the kit with? I have had some disasters with some cloths that left residue. thanks


I use alcohol swabs, the BD brand seems the best to me http://www.walmart.com/ip/Beckton-Dickenson-w-Antiseptic-Individually-Foil-Wrapped-Alcohol-Swabs-No.-326895-100-Ea/10416769

These don't leave any lint or residue. There are alcohol wipes that are good for larger areas. These may be hard to find, in my area I've only seen them in Giant, a local grocery chain.


----------



## orbital drydock

eagledocf15 said:


> Can you describe the wiping down with alcohol a little more. What do you use to wipe down the kit with? I have had some disasters with some cloths that left residue. thanks


Use a soft paper towel & off the shelf isopropyl alcohol. Dilute the alcohol 50/50 with distilled water & very lightly wipe down the model with the paper towel that's damp not soaked, with the 50/50 solution. This method will only work if you're using lacquer or enamel as a base coat, as it takes a bit of work to remove too much paint. If you're using acrylics the alcohol will completely remove the paint.

What this does is chemically soften the base coat & allow acrylics to chemically bond to a lacquer or enamel base coat. This method is really tricky though, you have to get your top coat on before the base coat re-cures & you have no way to gauge that time. Also it's very easy to accidentally ruin a paint job if you already have multiple color layers down.

--

I think the big problem folks are running into with the lifting paint, is one of chemical incompatibility. I haven't tried the wasco/polytranspar acrylics, but from what I've read they are only compatible with other wasco products. This is a very common practice among paint manufacturers to keep you buying their entire product line.

The best suggestion I have is to experiment first. What I do is go to somewhere like tap plastic & buy a bunch of cheap styrene from their scrap bin. It's important to use all of the same materials like styrene model=styrene test, resin model=resin test. Using the same primer & body paint you'll use on the model. Prime a sheet, paint it the body color, & let it dry for 24hrs. Then test several different products for the interference colors, wait till it dries to the touch, then hit it with tape. If you have a successful bond the paint won't peel off like a film. If you have a chemical de-lamination issue it won't matter if you let the paint dry for a year, or 30min it will still peel. Also clear coat might not help, as the clear coat will only bond to the top layer. If you're paint failure happens between the base coat & top layer, it can still peel.

Another thing to watch out for is using the wrong thinning product. Again these are made to be compatible with the same manufacturers brands of paint. Look up the MSDS sheets for the thinners, if a cheaper brand has the same chemical components in the same quantities, you're probably good. Watch out for high acetone content in ranges of 30%+, thinners with that much acetone flash too quickly to allow a good chemical bond, or are too "hot" & will damage the paint underneath(orange peel or dissolve) 

My preferred paints for aztecs are Alclad, MM, & Tamiya can. I use MM or Tamiya flat white as the base. Then Tamiya pearl white & Alclad Kristal Klear with PearlEX pigments for the aztecs. I've never had any issues using these combinaions.

I'm hoping santa will bring me a new camcorder this year. I have a whole series of how to & help videos planned out. Covering issues like painting, electronics, assembly, product usage & so on.


----------



## barrydancer

orbital drydock said:


> --
> 
> I think the big problem folks are running into with the lifting paint, is one of chemical incompatibility. I haven't tried the wasco/polytranspar acrylics, but from what I've read they are only compatible with other wasco products. This is a very common practice among paint manufacturers to keep you buying their entire product line...If you have a successful bond the paint won't peel off like a film.


That may be part of the problem. When the paint does lift, it comes off just like a clear film layer, with the basecoat being completely undamaged. Other times, it's perfectly fine and stays stuck, though.

I'm stuck with em now, but if I had to do it over, I think I'd go with the Pearl EX powders, as well.

I'm gonna try all the suggestions mentioned in the thread and see if I can't at least minimize the lifting issues. I'm doing the sides of the secondary hull next, so we'll see!


----------



## barrydancer

Very little progress recently. I repaired the areas where paint lifted on the belly, and took the tape off the arboretum windows and painted them. I've still got a little cleanup to do on them, but I'm pleased with how they turned out. You can just barely make out the kit's seams around the windows.









Port









Starboard

You can see the putty behind the windows still. In hindsight, I should have done all the puttying and sanding BEFORE installing the arboretum, but you live, you learn.


----------



## barrydancer

Threw a light coat of Future over the belly last night. It was my first time using it. A little beading with it, but that mostly leveled. A tad bit of orange peeling, too, but I think that will all even out in the end with final coats of clear. Strangely, when I run my finger across it, it feels like it gives more resistance than if I run my finger along the basecoat. Maybe it just hasn't fully cured?

If everything bonded well, I'm hoping this helps with my paint lifting. I gave the surface a light wipe down with an alcohol/water mix before applying. Here's to hoping it doesn't yellow over time.


----------



## Fernando Mureb

Magnificent work!!! Hope I can reach 50% of this quality when I do mine.


----------



## harristotle

I envy you building this kit so much. It's apparent that this is a lot of work, but good for you for taking the time and doing your best to do it up right.


----------



## barrydancer

Fernando Mureb said:


> Magnificent work!!! Hope I can reach 50% of this quality when I do mine.


That shouldn't be too hard, as I really don't know what the hell I'm doing, lol!  I'm sure yours will look amazing.


----------



## barrydancer

harristotle said:


> I envy you building this kit so much. It's apparent that this is a lot of work, but good for you for taking the time and doing your best to do it up right.


Thanks! I've never tried to do this detailed of a build before. I made a lot of starship models as a teenager, but they were pretty much straight out of the box with a little bit of paint slapped on the clear engine parts.

In hindsight, I probably shouldn't have chosen such a monster of a paint job at my skill level, but this is my favorite starship and I figured if I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna make it look a close to the filming model as I can.

I'm definitely learning as I go.


----------



## Chrisisall

Lovin' this, dude.


----------



## harristotle

barrydancer said:


> Thanks! I've never tried to do this detailed of a build before. I made a lot of starship models as a teenager, but they were pretty much straight out of the box with a little bit of paint slapped on the clear engine parts.
> 
> In hindsight, I probably shouldn't have chosen such a monster of a paint job at my skill level, but this is my favorite starship and I figured if I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna make it look a close to the filming model as I can.
> 
> I'm definitely learning as I go.


Hey, you can't get better without stepping outside of your current skill level.


----------



## barrydancer

It begins. Wish me luck, lol.


----------



## Chrisisall

Luck!


----------



## Garbaron

Good luck and have fun.


----------



## barrydancer

About three and a half hours of masking (and about three minutes of painting!) later, and this is the result.









Mask for blue applied.









The finished product. The dorsal and torpedo bay look great in this pic, too.




























The pattern is based mostly on galaxy_jason's excellent color map. I started deviating from it more as I worked my way towards the rear. Now I got three more f'n colors to do this for. :freak:


----------



## Garbaron

And you'll hate every minute of it


----------



## barrydancer

Gold on, and a little bit of the green. I had very little paint lifting this time. Just a few specks that were easily fixed. The combination of alcohol wipe down, clearcoat, and taking the tack of the tape seems to be working. (Though I did manage to take the future off in a few places where I was using Windex to clean up paint bleed under the tape.)

Here are some pics from this morning.














































I don't think I'll do another full mask for the remaining two colors. I also haven't decided if I'll put another coat of clear on before doing the red and green, or take my chances and hope nothing lifts.


----------



## Garbaron

Looking good. 

Only one nit.

Try to make sure the horizontal "planks" all have the same "height" or multiple of the same. 
That's what makes the Refits engineering hull look so unique. I mention this since I can make out much narrower "planks" in front of the gold that sits in front of the docking port. 
Some shots of my build as reference:





You can make out the pattern much better in B&W



All "planks" have a "height" of 3mm on my build and are a multiple 6mm" wide.


----------



## barrydancer

Garbaron said:


> Looking good.
> 
> Only one nit.
> 
> Try to make sure the horizontal "planks" all have the same "height" or multiple of the same.
> That's what makes the Refits engineering hull look so unique. I mention this since I can make out much narrower "planks" in front of the gold that sits in front of the docking port.
> 
> 
> All "planks" have a "height" of 3mm on my build and are a multiple 6mm" wide.


Thanks for the advice. For the most part, they all are the same height and width. Most of the individual planks are 1/8" in height and width, and I either doubled them up for bigger sections, or used a 6mm strip, since it's close to 1/4". I can't always fit an even number in the panels, though, which is why in a couple places you'll see a much thinner plank.


----------



## Garbaron

I know the problem with fitting the "planks" in to the deflector grid. The trick to make it appear more even is to decide where you start. I chose the center grid line and build up and down from there. This way the narrower or wider "planks" will be in the same area at the bottom or top making it look like its supposed to be this way. By this you avoid narrower "planks" in between even looking ones.


----------



## barrydancer

Garbaron said:


> I know the problem with fitting the "planks" in to the deflector grid. The trick to make it appear more even is to decide where you start. I chose the center grid line and build up and down from there. This way the narrower or wider "planks" will be in the same area at the bottom or top making it look like its supposed to be this way. By this you avoid narrower "planks" in between even looking ones.


Now, why didn't I think of that? Thanks! I'll use that technique on the remaining colors and on the starboard side.


----------



## barrydancer

Finally finished with the port side. Happy to say there wasn't any lifting of the paint under the mask on the belly. 














































Now off to the outboard pylon...


----------



## Fernando Mureb

Outstanding buddy! :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

You should probably be of Chinese descent, being so patient.


----------



## SteveR

Sheeeeeen …. :thumbsup:


----------



## Garbaron

Looks great!
Bit too color full for the scale but its true to the studio model. 
Keep it up!


----------



## TonyT

Wow...


----------



## colhero

She's shiney!


----------



## barrydancer

Thanks, everyone. She is a bit glossy, eh? I know the Refit was supposed to be shiny before ILM got it's hands on her, but do we know HOW shiny? I'm thinking I should tone down the final clearcoat just a tad bit.


----------



## Chrisisall

barrydancer said:


> Thanks, everyone. She is a bit glossy, eh? I know the Refit was supposed to be shiny before ILM got it's hands on her, but do we know HOW shiny? I'm thinking I should tone down the final clearcoat just a tad bit.


I actually liked what ILM did to it.:thumbsup:


----------



## Garbaron

barrydancer said:


> Thanks, everyone. She is a bit glossy, eh? I know the Refit was supposed to be shiny before ILM got it's hands on her, but do we know HOW shiny? I'm thinking I should tone down the final clearcoat just a tad bit.


According to Paul Olsen she must have been this shiny, yes. Thing is that studio model was MUCH bigger so it fit the scale. On the 1/350 Refit though in my opinion it is too shiny. That is why I went with a more subdued look for my Refit. But its mostly a matter of choice and taste.


----------



## harristotle

It's looking good. I would leave it shiny.


----------



## Fernando Mureb

For me, the sextet composed by Trekkriffic, Trekmodeller, Garbaron, Colhero, NemVia and Barrydancer is the reference for my future Enterprises, both OS and Refit. :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Did I forget someone?


----------



## harristotle

Fernando Mureb said:


> For me, the sextet composed by Trekkriffic, Trekmodeller, Garbaron, Colhero, NemVia and Barrydancer is the reference for my future Enterprises, both OS and Refit. :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
> 
> Did I forget someone?


There might be 1 or 2 others, but amen to that!


----------



## barrydancer

Fernando Mureb said:


> For me, the sextet composed by Trekkriffic, Trekmodeller, Garbaron, Colhero, NemVia and Barrydancer is the reference for my future Enterprises, both OS and Refit. :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
> 
> Did I forget someone?


You are FAR too kind, but thanks! Did I mention I'm just plodding along and learning as I go? LOL


----------



## barrydancer

Did the gold today. I have to say I'm very pleased with colhero's stencil idea. The paint went on nice with no raised edges. I did have a couple of issues, though. Even with a ruler I couldn't cut a straight line on the stencil to save my life, so the lightning bolts aren't perfect. This will create problems when I lay down the next stencil with the bolts not perfectly aligning. I may be able to touch some of that up with a brush in the end. The adhesive also left a lot of residue. It comes off fairly easy for the most part, but could be problematic on the other acrylic colors. I'm going to do some more tests and see if I can minimize or eliminate it.

Anywho, hard to get a good picture of this area but here you go.










My stencil was a little misaligned, so the lower bolts don't go all the way to the edge. I think I can touch that up with the brush, though now the pattern angle is just a tad off.


----------



## barrydancer

I noticed when taking the residue from the adhesive off that the aztec along the rear edge was very faint. So, I fished the stencil outta the garbage and resprayed that area.

Here's a better pic of the pylon.


----------



## RossW

Can you show more of these stencils you're using?


----------



## barrydancer

RossW said:


> Can you show more of these stencils you're using?


Sure. You can thank colhero for the idea. Basically, I'm printing the pattern needed onto photo paper, like so.










I then fill in the areas that are to be cut out with a pencil and then cut the pattern with an #11 Xacto knife. place the stencil on the model however you like and spray away.

I'm using the Carlos Zangrando patterns that can be found here. http://www.starshipmodeler.com/tech/cz_mask.htm

They aren't 100% accurate (for instance, the grinds for the pylon patterns are too big), but they're close enough.


----------



## colhero

Lookin good sir! Takes a lot of patience to cut the stencils but well worth it it - what I did when cutting them is use 3 slices with the knife for each line- the first one nice and easy to get the line straight then build up pressure with last 2.


----------



## RossW

How are you finding it lining up the pieces? The problem with stencils is the 'islands' (like the triangle in an 'A')


----------



## barrydancer

RossW said:


> How are you finding it lining up the pieces? The problem with stencils is the 'islands' (like the triangle in an 'A')


Are you referring to areas like the raised and recessed details and panel lines? I haven't had too much trouble with them. I used a similar technique with painters tape for the first color on the inboard pylons, and simply cut the tape so it went around the raised area in the middle. I'd think the stencils would work fine so long as they aren't trying to cover too large a jump in elevation.


----------



## barrydancer

colhero said:


> Lookin good sir! Takes a lot of patience to cut the stencils but well worth it it - what I did when cutting them is use 3 slices with the knife for each line- the first one nice and easy to get the line straight then build up pressure with last 2.


Thanks. It takes a little while to cut out the stencils, but its hours quicker than cutting and positioning little pieces of tape to do the pattern. I'm loving that I have no, or very minimal, paint edges. If it wasn't so much of a hassle, I'd strip the paint off the inboard pylons and redo the pattern this way.


----------



## barrydancer

Did the green. Much less residue from the adhesive this time, and I was pleasantly surprised at how well everything lined up. There's a little overlap in places and some small gaps in others, but I can probably touch those up later. 




























On to the blue!


----------



## Garbaron

Awesome work! Much better match than on my build. Kudos to you.


----------



## Chrisisall

I'm really loving the subtlety of your work here!


----------



## colhero

Nice work - yep, more accurate pattern than mine too!


----------



## harristotle

Simply beautiful :thumbsup:


----------



## Chrisisall

barrydancer said:


>


Yes. Striking. Not just a duplication of the filming model, but a more accurate version of what we saw onscreen. I will take this as a partial guide to my own when I get to it. Thanks.


----------



## usna2k

I love the pearlescent paints - I did find I lost some of the sheen when I used a clear satin overcoat - was a bit bummed about it but the effect is still there...and HARD to get to show in photos!


----------



## barrydancer

Chrisisall said:


> Yes. Striking. Not just a duplication of the filming model, but a more accurate version of what we saw onscreen. I will take this as a partial guide to my own when I get to it. Thanks.


No, thank you, and everyone else for the encouragement and advice. I'm glad you all like it. Get in close, and you'll see all the flaws. :tongue:


----------



## barrydancer

I got the blue on today. I'll let this sit for a day or so before cleaning the adhesive residue off and then clearcoat it. The end is at least in sight for the secondary hull. I haven't seen my strongback or deflector area or pylon detail colors in months.


----------



## barrydancer

I've noticed a bit of an issue with the Future I'm using for a clearcoat. It seems to be crazing (or at least looks kinda cracked/spider web-y) in places. Though it feels smooth if I run my finger over it. But here's the weird part, it's only doing it over the iridescent blue. It looks fine over the other three colors. 

Any thoughts?


----------



## barrydancer

Kinda burned out on doing the aztec, so I decided to finish up the remaining detail work on the secondary hull, such as phaser banks, those trenches on the rear of the pylons, etc.


















In hindsight, I shoulda filled that gap at the shuttlebay, but since I plan to display it with the doors closed there's no real need.


















Oh, hey, there was a green deflector housing under there! I also redid the three areas around the deflector in silver. Still too dark for my taste, but it pops more when the light hits it than the aluminum color did.

Me and the wife and kids are moving to Ohio next week, so this is probably the last work I'll be able to do on it for a couple of weeks.


----------



## harristotle

Where in OH? Shoot me a PM if you don't want to post in on the board. I just moved there/here a couple months ago.


----------



## barrydancer

...and I'm back from the dead. We're at our temporary abode and Enterprise is unpacked. I'm working on the gold for the starboard side. Decided to save a little time and paint mixing and do the hull side and pylon at the same time. A couple more hours of masking and I'll be ready to paint.


----------



## Chrisisall

That picture makes me dizzy....


----------



## harristotle

Welcome back! Glad to see the Big E has survived the move. I was terrified moving my models cross country. The Sci Fi survived, I'm still nervous about unpacking my model engines...


----------



## MLCrisis32

The paint technique and quality is astounding. Can only hope to come close to this level!


----------



## barrydancer

Chrisisall said:


> That picture makes me dizzy....


LOL Try masking it, then you'll really go insane.


----------



## barrydancer

harristotle said:


> Welcome back! Glad to see the Big E has survived the move. I was terrified moving my models cross country. The Sci Fi survived, I'm still nervous about unpacking my model engines...


I moved the Enterprise and all her supplies myself. Didn't want to risk leaving her with the movers.


----------



## Chrisisall

barrydancer said:


> LOL Try masking it, then you'll really go insane.


Pass the Saurian Brandy first...:freak:


----------



## barrydancer

MLCrisis32 said:


> The paint technique and quality is astounding. Can only hope to come close to this level!


Thanks! This's the first time I've attempted something so detailed. Get in close and you'll see all her flaws. . Good luck with yours!


----------



## barrydancer

Got the masking done for the gold today, and painted it tonight. Looks great, and I'll get some pictures up tomorrow when I have better lighting. 

One problem, though. As I was cleaning up from painting I noticed that there was a hairline crack in the paint at the bottom of the starboard pylon support, which ended in a loose fleck of paint.










I'm hoping I can just sand it down a little and repaint it, without needing to put on more putty. As you can see, it's quite dark and takes many coats of white to cover. I'll probably need to decant some paint and airbrush it, as I don't want to take a rattle can to such a small area.


----------



## barrydancer

Here are the gold pics. Working on fixing my pylon crack now, too.


----------



## Chrisisall

I SO want to do one of these...


----------



## harristotle

Chrisisall said:


> I SO want to do one of these...


Ditto!


----------



## Fernando Mureb

Yeah, exciting  and frightening :freak:.


----------



## Manatee Dream

What did you do for the base coat? I just got the white primer on, does it need gloss coat and pearl paint? I do plan on doing the decals unlike yours...wont look as good as yours but I am lazy.


----------



## barrydancer

Manatee Dream said:


> What did you do for the base coat? I just got the white primer on, does it need gloss coat and pearl paint? I do plan on doing the decals unlike yours...wont look as good as yours but I am lazy.


My base coat is Tamiya TS26 Pure White with Tamiya TS45 Pearl White on top of that. The pure white is very glossy, and the pearl white more of a semi-gloss. If you want to use those colors, you could probably get away with not using a gloss white underneath the pearl, so long as your primer is white. I did it because it seemed to make the pearl shine a bit more from underneath. The pearl is rather translucent and won't really hide anything dark.

You'll likely need a gloss coat on before you go putting the aztec decals, and perhaps one afterwards to seal the decals. You can then clear coat it in whatever finish you like.

I'm lazy, too, but I decided to give painting the aztec a go. It's interesting to see on my Enterprise how I've gotten better at painting it from the first sections I did to the most recent.


----------



## Manatee Dream

After looking at the noob tos thread, and seeing his fantastic results with the masks from orbital drydock, I decided to do masks too. I am just going to do one with pearl white, since that looks so good on yours, and will stick with the primer. Thanks for the help!


----------



## Landru

Just went though the whole thread, absolutely beautiful work!

And when you started this thread four years ago, you said you hadn't even used an airbrush....now look! Thumbs up from me


----------



## barrydancer

Landru said:


> Just went though the whole thread, absolutely beautiful work!
> 
> And when you started this thread four years ago, you said you hadn't even used an airbrush....now look! Thumbs up from me


Thanks!


----------



## barrydancer

Pylon repair complete, so now I can get back to my aztec. Went ahead and took care of that scratch on the fantail from my knife, too.


----------



## barrydancer

Slowly plodding along. Here's the green. I actually had to strip the pylon and redo the gold due to problems with the green the first time I tried.

I'm following the galaxy_jason color map more closely on this side than I did on the port, with a few simplifications.

Aaaaaalmost there, after 8 months!


----------



## harristotle

Looking ever better!


----------



## colhero

Looking good!


----------



## Garbaron

Really great work. 

Looks like you and Colhero have much less problems with dust sealed in to the clear of the Aztec? I guess you two have specific hobby rooms to work at? Thats the only thing I regret on my build, dust sealed in to the Aztec and clear coat.


----------



## barrydancer

Garbaron said:


> Really great work.
> 
> Looks like you and Colhero have much less problems with dust sealed in to the clear of the Aztec? I guess you two have specific hobby rooms to work at? Thats the only thing I regret on my build, dust sealed in to the Aztec and clear coat.


Oh, believe me there's dust in there. You just can't see it in the pictures. 

I've got little black specks and dust and stray little hairs all over. Drove me nuts in the beginning.


----------



## Garbaron

Don't get this the worngway, but am glad to hear it, so its not my problem alone. ^^


----------



## colhero

Both of your aztecs look pretty good - dust, hairs are inevitable - even after I use compressed air to clean any loose stuff of the parts then place them on the paint table after the air settles - like the debris is spontaneously created out of thin air!

I did fairly well with this issue, but my frustration lies in the granularity of the paint itself. I can have a nice smooth surface, but then the paint is just too granular at this scale - Im using water-base acrylics - are lacquers finer?

I suppose you could paint several layers then sand smooth but that affects the overall finish of the paint and can change the reflectivity.

Also, I try to use stencils now whenever possible cuz masking=paint lines and carefully scraping them down with an xacto is a PITA.


----------



## orbital drydock

colhero said:


> I did fairly well with this issue, but my frustration lies in the granularity of the paint itself. I can have a nice smooth surface, but then the paint is just too granular at this scale - Im using water-base acrylics - are lacquers finer?
> 
> I suppose you could paint several layers then sand smooth but that affects the overall finish of the paint and can change the reflectivity.
> 
> Also, I try to use stencils now whenever possible cuz masking=paint lines and carefully scraping them down with an xacto is a PITA.


Question: 
Does the paint look like it's going on wet & what's your psi?

For the paint lines, use 2k+ grit wet paper & very very lightly, with almost no pressure, hit just the edges.

I shoot lacquers whenever possible. They're more archival & can be layed on really thin


----------



## crowe-t

Beautiful work on the Aztec. 

Will you be spraying clear on top?


----------



## barrydancer

crowe-t said:


> Beautiful work on the Aztec.
> 
> Will you be spraying clear on top?


Thanks. Yes, I'm using Future for clear coating.


----------



## barrydancer

Another short update. The red is on. Now all I have left is the blue, the little yellow landing strips for the shuttle bay, and some squares and rectangles on the spine. My next update should be the completed secondary hull, sans decals.




























The red wasn't wanting to photograph that well today, for some reason.


----------



## Chrisisall

I can see it!


----------



## eagledocf15

*Great work!*

Keep us all up to date


----------



## Guns Akimbo

Garbaron said:


> Really great work.
> 
> Looks like you and Colhero have much less problems with dust sealed in to the clear of the Aztec? I guess you two have specific hobby rooms to work at?


How about letting the painted part(s) dry in a spray booth, with the fan(s) running for a fair amount of time? Seems to me that a supply of filtered air would both lower the paint drying time, and reduce, if not eliminate, the possibility of contaminants in the paint and/or clear coat.


----------



## RossW

Unfortunately, a spray booth doesn't provide contaminate-free drying. The fan 'pulls' the air out of the booth area, only to be replaced by ambient air which passes over the model on the way to the filter/fan. That's been my experience, anyway.


----------



## Chrisisall

RossW said:


> Unfortunately, a spray booth doesn't provide contaminate-free drying. The fan 'pulls' the air out of the booth area, only to be replaced by ambient air which passes over the model on the way to the filter/fan. That's been my experience, anyway.


Yes, that's mine as well. Dust needs to be cleaned out of the area as much as possible, the air should be still, and the WIP should be covered if possible.


----------



## Guns Akimbo

RossW said:


> Unfortunately, a spray booth doesn't provide contaminate-free drying. The fan 'pulls' the air out of the booth area, only to be replaced by ambient air which passes over the model on the way to the filter/fan. That's been my experience, anyway.


I see, and since most hobby booths are open-faced anyway that wouldn't work too well.  How about closing the front of a typical booth with a separate panel (plastic or even cardboard) that incorporates a filtered intake? Pardon my n00b-ness here.


----------



## Garbaron

We all have to work with what we got and not all of us have the luxury of a hobby room. 
I have to do everthing in my living room.


----------



## Chrisisall

Garbaron said:


> We all have to work with what we got and not all of us have the luxury of a hobby room.
> I have to do everthing in my living room.


Me too; it's a constant cat hair battle.


----------



## jgoldsack

Garbaron said:


> We all have to work with what we got and not all of us have the luxury of a hobby room.
> I have to do everthing in my living room.


I have to do mine in my home office. Not quite living room but it is close. Dust is always a battle... it is a constant habit of mine to lightly blow dust off my models before painting using my air compressor on a low PSI. Even then I still have dust... part of my issue is I can only spray either outside (usually where I use rattlecans) or in my garage with the airbrush...

Wish I could just paint the thing, then immediately cover it up so it can dry without any dust getting on it...


----------



## MartinHatfield

I paint my items with my airbrush in my home office/bedroom and then place them in a sealed container to let them dry. I have to buy some larger containers when I get to my 1/350 Enterprise kits.


----------



## harristotle

I battle with it too, but working in a small scale helps a little. We keep the cats and dog out of the office where I do my work unless we're in there.


----------



## barrydancer

I am actually alive. Been busy with buying and moving into a new house. I made myself find some time the last couple days to work on the Enterprise, and here she is! Painting is finished on the secondary hull. There are details I left out, such as the patterns on the spine and above the pin stripe on the dorsal, but I'm happy with it. Except for all the little f%#@&%g little black hairs that seemed to be drawn to the clear coat. Hopefully I can start decaling in the coming week or so.









Final taping for the blue on the starboard side.


----------



## Chrisisall

Beautifully subtle.


----------



## barrydancer

Chrisisall said:


> Beautifully subtle.


Anything that looks good wasn't intentional. :hat:


----------



## Chrisisall

barrydancer said:


> Anything that looks good wasn't intentional. :hat:


That's _art_.


----------



## harristotle

Ever closer to the finish line and still looking beautiful! Glad to see an update, hope things went well with the move :thumbsup:


----------



## barrydancer

There be decals going on...










Some mishaps, though. A couple of the rings around the docking ports decided to break apart in the water, so one of them is a 1701-A with the A scratched off. Also, the pinstripe atop the dorsal would NOT cooperate and broke into too many pieces. 

I ordered a couple sheets of the PNT set from Federation Models to replace them, and maybe other decals, because the kit ones aren't impressing me.


----------



## Chrisisall

Looking good!


----------



## colhero

Coming along nicely! I had similar decal problems with the pinstripes around B-C deck - very frustrating...


----------



## Garbaron

Looks great! You're almost there!

And yes, the drosal stripping is a pia, as well as the B/D deck stripping and the 
never ending fly dropping sized ones at the nacelles (make your eyes go cross visioned to place them)!!


----------



## barrydancer

Garbaron said:


> Looks great! You're almost there!
> 
> And yes, the drosal stripping is a pia, as well as the B/D deck stripping and the
> never ending fly dropping sized ones at the nacelles (make your eyes go cross visioned to place them)!!


You mean like these little black pains in the rear? LOL










Fun fact, I didn't realize until AFTER I had all these little red rectangles on that I have their orientation wrong. Should be vertical. Oh, well, I ain't about to scrape em off and redo them.









The pinstripe is repaired with the PNT decal (though it broke, too, and was a PITA to get on...had to splice in sections from two different sets.) My main gripe with it is that while the kit decal on the rear of the dorsal is a solid red line, the PNT one, well, isn't. A few feet away and you can't tell, but get in close and it's very obvious they don't match.










I'm actually a little underwhelmed with the PNT set as a whole. All of the smaller details, like the docking rings and little rectangles, are all kinda blurry and washed out. I may use its properly scaled saucer registry when the time comes, however, even though it isn't as bright and crisp as the kit decal.


----------



## Garbaron

Jep, had the same feeJep, had the same feeling about the PNT decals. The docking port rings are really blurry. The pins tripping is not as strong a red, it all looks a bit faded once you put them on the hull. I did not use PNTs secondary hull pennant, as on my PNT sheet the pennant did not have silver on it but tried to create a silver effect with varying shades of grey VERY underwhelming. But I used his registry numberings since the size is closer to the studio model, PLs are too small. ling about the PNT decals. The docking port rings are really blurry


----------



## barrydancer

Soooooo, yeah. Doing the final clearcoat/sealing for the secondary hull.

Giving this a go instead of Future.









Tested it on the spare secondary hull with no issues. On the finished model however, it did this.


















The pylons are the worst, but there are similar spots all over the hull. I sprayed in light coats, and there was no problem on the test piece.

I have no clue how to fix this, short of stripping it down and repainting it, which isn't really an option at this point. Any thoughts?


----------



## Chrisisall

Well, it's just acrylic. You could buff it. It's worked for me when I had some issues with it, but it will get shiny.


----------



## barrydancer

Chrisisall said:


> Well, it's just acrylic. You could buff it. It's worked for me when I had some issues with it, but it will get shiny.


It's worth a shot. I'd rather have shiny than crazed. How would I go about buffing it?


----------



## Chrisisall

barrydancer said:


> It's worth a shot. I'd rather have shiny than crazed. How would I go about buffing it?


The hi-tek way is to have a buffer. But I mostly go low-tek (clean cotton tee shirt & tons of elbow grease).


----------



## SteveR

Chrisisall said:


> The hi-tek way is to have a buffer. But I mostly go low-tek (clean cotton tee shirt & tons of elbow grease).


Any rubbing compound?


----------



## Chrisisall

SteveR said:


> Any rubbing compound?


As in whore house-??


----------



## PixelMagic

I know this is rubbing salt in the wound, but I have to ask...why would you use a Krylon clear for the clear coat? Why not a model brand clear coat, as to not take any risks of having problems such as this?

Also, did you allow all your base coats enough time to dry before the clear coat?


----------



## barrydancer

PixelMagic said:


> I know this is rubbing salt in the wound, but I have to ask...why would you use a Krylon clear for the clear coat? Why not a model brand clear coat, as to not take any risks of having problems such as this?
> 
> Also, did you allow all your base coats enough time to dry before the clear coat?


I wanted a satin/semi-gloss acrylic clear, as the Future I had put down as a gloss coat before decals was gonna be too shiny for the final coat. I could have gotten something to dull the Future, but it was suggested to me elsewhere to try Krylon. (these Wasco acrylics for the aztec, at least my batch, are VERY temperamental, and I didn't want to risk using anything other than an acrylic clear.) It was cheap and readily available, so I went with it.

The base coats and aztecs have been dry for months, and even the latest coat of Future was a good six weeks ago.


----------



## barrydancer

Chrisisall said:


> The hi-tek way is to have a buffer. But I mostly go low-tek (clean cotton tee shirt & tons of elbow grease).


Lots of rubbing later, and it still looks the same. I think I'm stuck with it. This whole ship is gonna be so ghetto up close, but absolutely amazing looking from about 6 feet away.


----------



## Chrisisall

barrydancer said:


> Lots of rubbing later, and it still looks the same. I think I'm stuck with it.


You're never stuck with anything. There's always a way out. Another coat of clear might even do it, you never know.
R&D.:thumbsup:


----------



## PixelMagic

barrydancer said:


> The base coats and aztecs have been dry for months, and even the latest coat of Future was a good six weeks ago.


Well, it sounds like you certainly allowed enough dry time. I am sorry this happened to you, it's such a beautiful build. I would advise however, never using Krylon in the future. It's not very good quality. Rustoleum is better for non-hobby spray paints.


----------



## Chrisisall

PixelMagic said:


> I would advise however, never using Krylon in the future. It's not very good quality. Rustoleum is better for non-hobby spray paints.


Krylon is good for certain projects. Not all. Same with Rustoleum. It's all in the R&D of the craft.
I'd not call it a loss until you've expended all possibilities available to you.


----------



## SteveR

There has to be something to fill those cracks. Something waxy. 

Damn. Sorry you have the problem -- it's such a nice paint job. And it worked on a test piece -- that must burn you.


----------



## colhero

Wow total bummer! Perhaps you can try spraying the Krylon clear into a cup, then wiping it on with a micro-cloth, rubbing it into the cracks?

My experience is that any spray clear or Finish coat on this ship is just too thick and looks obvious. What I did on my A was to wipe-on a mix of acrylic satin/matte mix, and gently rub it to burnish it in. Gave it a nice thin layer of reflectivity like galvanized steel. 

Dont give up yet - at least you have a test piece to try some new tricks with.


----------



## Garbaron

barrydancer said:


> Soooooo, yeah. Doing the final clearcoat/sealing for the secondary hull.
> 
> Giving this a go instead of Future.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tested it on the spare secondary hull with no issues. On the finished model however, it did this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The pylons are the worst, but there are similar spots all over the hull. I sprayed in light coats, and there was no problem on the test piece.
> 
> I have no clue how to fix this, short of stripping it down and repainting it, which isn't really an option at this point. Any thoughts?



Though I used a different brand (Marabu) I had / have similar issues on my Refit. I think it has to do with the semi gloss, it just doesn’t work they way it is supposed to. 

My issues are some cracks and uneven surface like you have and with the semi gloss appearance. I did lots of testing and it worked perfectly. So I sprayed the hull, apparently got a nice even coat all over the ship and it looked great while still wet. After it had dried the hull surface had different levels of “semi gloss”, more towards the matt here, bit more towards gloss there. So I gave it another coat and it did not help, but made things worse, especially on the top saucer. 

I did the cotton cloth thing too but it’s a polish so naturally the areas you “polish” tend to become more glossy, as I realized this I focused the cotton polish on the areas that had more of a matt appearance, This somewhat brought it to the level of the semi gloss. Looking at it normally you don’t notice, but if you have the sun reflect on the hull you’ll notice. 

To really fix it I would have to stripp all the paint work and start over again .. so eventually I booked it under the Raytheon mantra of “you won’t build the perfect model” and moved on. 

Next time I have a large model like this ready for its final clear coat I’ll look for someone who’s used to evenly spray large surfaces and have them do it .. when they **** it up I got someone else to blame instead of me …


----------



## barrydancer

A lot of R&D later, and Chrisisall had the best solution...more Krylon. I tried a number of things: brushing some future over the areas (no luck), a light alcohol wipe (a little success in some places, in others it at right through to the paint), wiping on Future (same result as brushing it) wet sanding and applying future (no luck). When I tried to wipe on Krylon, it was acting like it was stripping the clear coat,so...

Last thing I tried was just to spray another coat of Krylon on an area and see what happened. That works the best. The stuff almost seems to melt into itself, and fill in the cracks to an extent. Some went away entirely, but most are at least a little less noticeable.

The only problem is that the ship winds up being very glossy, which is what I was trying to avoid with the Krylon to begin with, and as Colhero mentioned, the clearcoat looks too thick and obvious.

Oh, well, it'll have to do. LOL


----------



## barrydancer

Heaven help me, I decided to strip down the outboard pylons, at least, and redo them. Even with more Krylon they still looked like lizard skin.

Interestingly, those cracks went deep, almost seeming like they had etched the plastic itself. I wetsanded the area and you can still see them.

I will not use this stuff on any other part of the ship, again.


----------



## Garbaron

Wow ... that is bad luck.
Hang in there .. you are almost done.


----------



## barrydancer

Garbaron said:


> Wow ... that is bad luck.
> Hang in there .. you are almost done.


That's what burns me more than anything else. I was done with this section of the ship, after working on it since July. Just the final clear to seal the decals and I go and ruin so much of my hard work.

If I ever get this thing finished, I think I'm a take a break from it for a while before I move on to the nacelles.


----------



## SteveR

Adversity made you very qualified to give painting advice! "DON'T DO THIS!!!" 

Seriously, I'm looking forward to seeing your fix … and your relief when it's finally done!


----------



## Garbaron

barrydancer said:


> That's what burns me more than anything else. I was done with this section of the ship, after working on it since July. Just the final clear to seal the decals and I go and ruin so much of my hard work.
> 
> If I ever get this thing finished, I think I'm a take a break from it for a while before I move on to the nacelles.


I've been there myself, so I know your pains. 
Sometimes I wish I had never added that final clear coat layer. She looked gorgeous without it. But you think about the future and want to protect the decals so you do it. 

But it is done. Once you are finished and you have some time between finishing her you'll still see what went wrong, but you are not looking at it up close as you do now. It helps. When I sit at my TV chair and the sun comes in and makes her white hull glow and cast shadows ... wow (looks something like this)! 

And then I think “despite all her flaws I did good!” 
It will be the same for you .. trust me.


----------



## Trekkriffic

Oh Man! Reading all these horror stories makes me even more afraid to ever get started on MY Refit!


----------



## barrydancer

Garbaron said:


> I've been there myself, so I know your pains.
> Sometimes I wish I had never added that final clear coat layer. She looked gorgeous without it. But you think about the future and want to protect the decals so you do it.
> 
> But it is done. Once you are finished and you have some time between finishing her you'll still see what went wrong, but you are not looking at it up close as you do now. It helps. When I sit at my TV chair and the sun comes in and makes her white hull glow and cast shadows ... wow (looks something like this)!
> 
> And then I think “despite all her flaws I did good!”
> It will be the same for you .. trust me.


Thanks, man. I've got my work cut out for me. The outboard pylons will be totally redone, and the port inner has to have some of the aztec redone. The aztec above the shuttlebay got eaten away,so that's going to be redone, too. I'm going to leave the belly alone, but if I really want to make work for myself I could redo the ribs.

The torpedo bay has no issues, amazingly, and the dorsal will just be left alone, as well. The sides of the hull only have a couple issues, so they are staying as is, too.


----------



## barrydancer

Trekkriffic said:


> Oh Man! Reading all these horror stories makes me even more afraid to ever get started on MY Refit!


Judging by your other builds, I think you'll be just fine. In hindsight, I shouldn't have tackled such a big job at my current skill level.


----------



## barrydancer

Repairs are plugging along. I wish I had more time to work on it than I do. The blue on the belly and ribs was almost entirely stripped and redone. The gold is done on the pylons and the green is ready to go when I get a chance. There's still some clearcoat issues, as you can see in the pics, but I'm done fighting it.









The new and old clearcoats don't always mesh in some places.









Even the Future is cracking, but it's not as bad as the Krylon. I think this model hates me!


















Gold. The Pure White underneats is roughed up a little bit to help it stick.









Decided to get started on this fella while I'm at it.


----------



## PixelMagic

How much time are you leaving between your paint coats and your clear coat? Not waiting for the paint coat to cure can cause cracking in the clear coat. I let my models dry a month before clear coating.


----------



## barrydancer

PixelMagic said:


> How much time are you leaving between your paint coats and your clear coat? Not waiting for the paint coat to cure can cause cracking in the clear coat. I let my models dry a month before clear coating.


I don't remember. A couple of days, I think. I figured acrylics dried rather quickly. I'll try waiting longer next time and see what happens.


----------



## PixelMagic

barrydancer said:


> I don't remember. A couple of days, I think. I figured acrylics dried rather quickly. I'll try waiting longer next time and see what happens.


I've heard it's sometimes advisable to wait a whole month for paint to cure fully, but that might be overkill. Perhaps try a week?


----------



## barrydancer

Finally, repairs are done. It looked better the first time around, but I did the best I could. The outboard pylons and area above the shuttlebay were completely redone. Most all of the other aztecs had a light coat of each color applied by brush.









I added some of the details on the spine that I omitted the first time around to help distract from the clearcoat issues there.









This area was redone freehand with a brush.









Starboard pylon









She looks good when you step back a few feet.

I'll let this set for a few more days at least before putting a coat of Future on it. I should have the deflector painted and ready to go either then or shortly afterwards.

Also started constructing the saucer.

















Though I did forget to put the clear pieces for the RCS thrusters in before the sidewalls. I'm going to have to come up with some sort of solution to that problem.


----------



## colhero

She's coming along nicely - one way of doing the windows and thruster ports is filling them with clear glue or resin after she's all painted. You could even leave the thrusters open and it wont make much difference.


----------



## Garbaron

Looks great Barry! 

BTW .. is that the stock impulse engine? If I was you I'd get the DLM replacement.
The kits own impulse engines shape is all wrong. DLMs got its issues too but its much closer to what it should look like.


----------



## barrydancer

Garbaron said:


> Looks great Barry!
> 
> BTW .. is that the stock impulse engine? If I was you I'd get the DLM replacement.
> The kits own impulse engines shape is all wrong. DLMs got its issues too but its much closer to what it should look like.


Thanks! Yes, it's the kit impulse engine. I know it's not all that accurate, but I'm OK with it.

I also have an idea I'm going to try to see if I can keep the grooves in the saucer walls. I have a feeling it won't work, but we'll see.


----------



## barrydancer

colhero said:


> She's coming along nicely - one way of doing the windows and thruster ports is filling them with clear glue or resin after she's all painted. You could even leave the thrusters open and it wont make much difference.


Thanks. I think I'll give something clear a try when it's all painted. Saves me some masking, too.


----------



## barrydancer

I did the final clearcoat last night and removed all the masking tape. I haven't seen strongback or nacelle vents and edges in like 8-9 months! I've got a little touch up to do where some white managed to sneak in under the masks, a couple of decals to redo over the green stripe in the dorsal, and the deflector to finish, but I'd say the secondary hull is almost complete! 








































































Now to finish this little bugger.


----------



## KUROK

Excellent!

May I suggest a very thin grey or white overcoat?
The colors are too intense for scale effect.


----------



## barrydancer

KUROK said:


> Excellent!
> 
> May I suggest a very thin grey or white overcoat?
> The colors are too intense for scale effect.


I considered it at one time, but decided that at my skill level I'd do more harm than good and wind up having to redo it all. :freak:


----------



## Garbaron

Looks great!


On a personal note: when I put on the clear coat and it had dried off and I looked at the Aztec .. I wished I had not put on the clear. The interference effect is reduced quite a lot since the clear coat levels out the hull shine. It is also more difficult to capture the color effect on camera. Still looks awesome but before, when hull base color and the Aztec had different shine .. know what I mean?


----------



## Chrisisall

Nice work!!


----------



## barrydancer

Garbaron said:


> Looks great!
> 
> 
> On a personal note: when I put on the clear coat and it had dried off and I looked at the Aztec .. I wished I had not put on the clear. The interference effect is reduced quite a lot since the clear coat levels out the hull shine. It is also more difficult to capture the color effect on camera. Still looks awesome but before, when hull base color and the Aztec had different shine .. know what I mean?


I know what you mean. I came close to not clearcoating it to save that effect, but the decals, ya know? Small consolation, but I did find that the Future seemed to make the iridescent paints pop more, even though it evened the sheen on everything.


----------



## barrydancer

One more, aztecing in the evening sun.


----------



## harristotle

She's looking wonderful, must be nice to have an end kind of in sight.


----------



## barrydancer

Very little progress to report. I've had a lot going on recently, and no real time to work on the Refit. Got the deflector in, and started experimenting with Aves.









Deflector installed. I omitted the inner blue ring because I just couldn't get it to look right.



















I'm bound and determined to keep the grooves in the saucer walls, even if they wind up looking a little funky. I'll sand this down after it sets and see what I can do with it.

I found the Aves a little too clumpy, but maybe I didn't mix it correctly. Looks like a drop of alcohol would probably smooth it out a little.


----------



## Chrisisall

Keep on keepin' on!:thumbsup:


----------



## barrydancer

Not dead. Very little progress. I've started going to a computer programming bootcamp for a career change, so not a lot of free time. I did get this done this weekend.










Bought a bag of assorted clamps at Home Depot. They came in much handier than taping the halves together.

It felt good to be able to work on it just a little bit.


----------



## barrydancer

Hey, I painted something!










I've wanted to get the saucer together and this part painted before moving on to the nacelle aztec. I had made a custom blue a couple years ago that I've used for the top of the dorsal, pylons, and deflector. Problem is, I got no idea what colors I mixed and in what ratios to make it, so I wanted to get the last part that needed to be that color painted just in case I go to open the bottle one day and its decided to dry up.


----------



## barrydancer

A wild aztec approaches! I finally got up enough motivation to start on the nacelle aztecs. I think it was the thought of hours of masking that has kept me from working on it these past few months. It's the whole candy cane like sections in the rear that's giving me nightmares, though!

Decided to start at the top with the V's along the top ridge. I'm sure they're not all gold on the studio model, but they are on this one. 









Decided to use a stencil, rather than tape. This also let me move much faster and use it on both engines.


----------



## deboermodels

Nice work!


----------



## barrydancer

deboermodels said:


> Nice work!


Thanks!

New job and sick kids have kept me away from it for the past couple weeks, though...I'll finish it sometime in the next 5 years. :freak:


----------



## barrydancer

Some small progress. I painted whatever you call the area behind the copper-colored grilles. Not my best work, but step back a few feet and it looks fine.









Stencils I made for painting. I tried using Orbital Drydock's masks, but didn't have much luck. Probably more a fault of me than the product itself.

Finished product.




































It felt good to work on this poor thing. I just don't have the time to work on it that I used to, but I'd like to finish her this year.


----------



## Garbaron

Looks great and I know how you feel. During the final month of building mine i felt kind of burned out on the model and RL did not leave much time either and I just wanted to get the job done at a certain point.


----------



## barrydancer

Had some spare time the past couple days, so I got the aztec on the front sides of the nacelles done. 









I gave Orbital Drydock's masks another go, because I wanted a more intricate pattern than I could tape. I applied them by hand piece by piece because I couldn't get the transfer tape to work.









Some painting fuel. 

I did the blue first, which turned out to be a mistake. If you've been following this thread, you'll know the pearl blue is very finnicky and does not like to stick. It really should be the last color painted for me, but Brett's masks are such low-tack that I thought it would be all right. It wasn't. A lot of the blue lifted and had to be brushed on, and it doesn't brush well at all. Can't get mad, though, as it's my own fault.









You can see some towards the rear where I had to brush on the blue. This angle hides the worst of it.


















You can see some of the blue touch up work here, too.










I'll move on to the vertical bands along the nacelles next, working front to rear, and do the candy cane pattern last.


----------



## Chrisisall

Crazy intensity detail work is always an impressive thing....


----------



## Garbaron

Great work ... looks very familiar too ^^


----------



## barrydancer

Some more progress, this time the vertical stripes along the outboard of the port nacelle. I'll do the inboard next and then move to the "candy cane" pattern in the rear.









That's a lot of tape. I should buy stock in Tamiya.









Sections removed for the gold stripes.









Finished product. Mostly gold and blue, but I threw in a couple of green ones just for the hell of it and one small red in the front.









Lower half.









The Christies photos of the A seem to show a gold and smaller red band encircling the rear of the nacelle, so I reproduced it on mine.

I'll need to knock down some of the paint ridges, but for now I'm done with one third of one half of one nacelle.


----------



## larskseme

Great to see another update. She's really looking good. You've really captured the subtlety of the patterns, I think.


----------



## SteveR

Subtle and smooth -- liking it! :thumbsup:


----------



## harristotle

Keep em coming Barry, she's looking great. Slow and steady wins the race :dude:


----------



## barrydancer

Thanks, all. I gotta make some time this weekend to do the other side of the nacelle. Too many adult responsibilities...


----------



## SteveR

How have you knocked down the paint ridges?


----------



## barrydancer

SteveR said:


> How have you knocked down the paint ridges?


A combination of rubbing with a paper towel, and a soft textured cloth. It doesn't totally remove them, but gets them too a more manageable level. The pearl paint is so finicky that I don't want to risk sandpaper or wet sanding.


----------



## barrydancer

Hey, I actually worked on this thing! It's only been seven months. I'll finish this thing someday...









That's a lot of tape. It'll be the gold stripes on these two nacelle halves. 

I'm going to try to be more active in building now that it's getting colder and outdoor activities are drying up.


----------



## larskseme

Great to see an update. I have really enjoyed the chance to learn along with you as you make it. Looking forward to more, and thanks for sharing your work (and occasionally your pain and frustration ). She will be amazing when she is done.


----------



## Chrisisall

Nice! You are motivated... occasionally... in the end it will rock!


----------



## barrydancer

Thanks, guys. I got the red stripes painted tonight. Been so long since I airbrushed anything that I kept giving it too much air and spraying the paint on too thick. Good thing Windex eats these acrylics away with ease. I finally got the hang of it again.

I really should buy stock in Tamiya, what with the amount of tape I go through.


----------



## barrydancer

Picture free update. I did get the above two nacelle halves all painted last weekend. Now one more to go.


----------



## escape068

On the Polytranspar iridescent paint cracking.......could it be because the iridescent paints were acrylic and the clear is also an acrylic and they reacted to each other.

Here is a YouTube link from Trekworks that used the same Krylon clear over the Polytranspar *lacquer * iridescent paints. Boyd also used "Future" first but didn't like the finish so he switched to the Krylon Acrylic flat instead as the final clear over the decals and iridescent Aztec colors. He used the "Future" to seal the Aztecs before he put the Krylon on for the final coat. Boyd had no issues at all. He is an automotive painter with over 30 years experience painting cars so he knows all the paint differences and what will work together including all the new types of paints.

Look at 10:51 on the video

Trekworks
1:350 Scale Enterprise Refit Build Pt -16 How To Apply Decals 

URL

?tps://???.youtube.???/watchv=sCTea00OW8g&list=PLF9nz5N6__BjT7UcHASgXMSO8IURtTfcN&index=16

Sorry I can't post the link because I need 5 or more posts. Just replace the ??? in the URL with the appropriate letters www/com and H at the beginning of the URL


----------



## barrydancer

escape068 said:


> On the Polytranspar iridescent paint cracking.......could it be because the iridescent paints were acrylic and the clear is also an acrylic and they reacted to each other.
> 
> Here is a YouTube link from Trekworks that used the same Krylon clear over the Polytranspar *lacquer * iridescent paints. Boyd also used "Future" first but didn't like the finish so he switched to the Krylon Acrylic flat instead as the final clear over the decals and iridescent Aztec colors. He used the "Future" to seal the Aztecs before he put the Krylon on for the final coat. Boyd had no issues at all. He is an automotive painter with over 30 years experience painting cars so he knows all the paint differences and what will work together including all the new types of paints.
> 
> Look at 10:51 on the video
> 
> Trekworks
> 1:350 Scale Enterprise Refit Build Pt -16 How To Apply Decals
> 
> URL
> 
> ?tps://???.youtube.???/watchv=sCTea00OW8g&list=PLF9nz5N6__BjT7UcHASgXMSO8IURtTfcN&index=16
> 
> Sorry I can't post the link because I need 5 or more posts. Just replace the ??? in the URL with the appropriate letters www/com and H at the beginning of the URL


Perhaps. Whatever the cause, I know not to do it again!  

I will take a look at the video, though.

Thanks!


----------



## escape068

I just received the masks from Orbital Drydock and will doing the 4 color Aztec paint in a few days using the Polytranspar lacquer iridescent paints. I'm also using Polytranspar lacquer white for the base color and mixed some of their other lacquer paints for the other colors. 

I was watching Trekworks video part 16 today and came across the part where Boyd said instead of using "Future" he was going with the Krylon acrylic flat clear as the final clear coat and I remembered reading your post a few months ago and thought you had some issues with the Krylon clear so I went back through your posts and found that you were using the same clear but you were using the acrylic iridescents and not the lacquer from Polytranspar. Boyd used the lacquer ones so I thought that could be why the cracking occurred with yours


----------



## barrydancer

I think maybe the Krylon was just too hot for my application, or it doesn't work well with those paints/Future. I've definitely learned my lesson, let me tell you. I would have used the lacquers, but I've never had a space where I could spray them safely. The acrylics look fine, but they're very finicky. 

I have Brett's original mask set that I've used for the deflector and some nacelle patterns. They're good stuff.


----------

