# a few t dash questions



## mrtjet (Dec 3, 2013)

1. Is the gearing the same as a stock tjet? 2. Are the magnets the same or similar to a stock tjet? 3. Are all parts interchangeable? Thank you Mrtjet


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## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

all parts are interchangeable.
gearing is the same as a t-jet
magnets are much stronger than stock t-jet, about equal to, but maybe a little stronger than, Super II or AW/JL magnets
armature in built chassis are trilam about 15 OHM
there are now two lam (bilam?) arms at about 17 OHM available seperate


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## mrtjet (Dec 3, 2013)

How do they perform stock compared to a stock tjet? Seems that the magnets would enhance the handling.


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## kabatman (Dec 4, 2013)

they run better than a stock t-jet....i have a few and they all run better than a stock t-jet. that is being said taking that it is very difficult to find a good running stocker anymore...can a vintage aurora be tuned to run...yep, but the t-dashes i received...all ran very well once they were broken in.


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## Rich Dumas (Sep 3, 2008)

I race with HOCOC and Dash cars are legal with that club. Cars with 14 ohm three lamination armatures can be run in a class with JL/AW cars and cars with 16 ohm 2 lamination armatures are run in the classes that ran regular Aurora T-jets. We did very extensive testing before we decided to make the Dash stuff legal. We did not want to create a situation where everyone would have to replace all of their cars.
I bought 10 Dash 14 ohm cars. I believe that those are better than the typical NOS Aurora T-Jet. For all ten chassis I checked the ohms and the magnets using a magnetometer. The ohm values varied slightly, they were all at least 14 ohms and all three poles read the same. The magnets also varied in strength, but they were all stronger than the ones that came in any T-Jet. None of the magnets were quite as strong as the ones that Dash originally sold separately. All of the chassis were tested in stock condition with a '55 Chevy body. In all cases the pickup shoes had to be adjusted to make good contact. The lap times for the out of the box chassis varied considerably, but were about the same as a NOS T-jet. I found that some chassis had flash at the bottom end of the motor brush holes that had to be removed, fixing that made the performance more equal. All of the cars had very tight gears, they really need to be lapped to get the most out of these cars. Dash gears seem to be made out of a much more durable alloy than Aurora gears. I have been lapping them for about an hour using a very aggressive abrasive that would remove the teeth of Aurora gears almost entirely.
It soon became obvious that the cars would be limited by the modest grip of the stock tires, even if they had been trued. I did do some testing with skinny slip-on tires which reduced lap times, but did not stay on the wheels for long.
The next stage of the testing was to do five cars to a "Fray Lite" standard keeping replacement parts to a minimum in order to keep the cost under control. Those cars all have drill blank rear axles, Zoomin wheels, Pro Series slip-on Super Tires, RT-HO crown gears, JL guide pins and Wizzard front ends. The total cost was $34 per car less the bodies. All five cars can turn my MaxTrax in 6.5 seconds VS 5.4 seconds for my best Fray/SS car that cost $130 in parts alone. I built one chassis to a full Fray standard, except that the armature has not been balanced and that is only about a tenth of a second off the pace. That car cost $65 plus the body.
I have checked ten of the new two lamination armatures. I ran five of them in the same "Lite" chassis, the lap times varied between 6.3 and 6.7 seconds. I have not had a chance to do a full Fray car, but another guy in my club did and has reported similar lap times to his best Aurora T-Jet.
I did run an IROC style race for the Fray Lite cars and everyone seemed to like them.
Our conclusion was that the Dash cars can be run side by side with Aurora T-Jets. People getting into the hobby can get a better car than the typical NOS Aurora, but people with good T-Jets will still be competitive.


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## slotcarman12078 (Oct 3, 2008)

The only real issues I've encountered with Dash chassis regard the shoes and the stock wheels. The O.D. of the flange of the wheels is slightly over sized making it difficult to adjust the shoes on the hanger tabs when using the LWB position. The shoes being ultra thin and flexible adds to this issue. The wheel issue is an easy fix, by simply chucking the wheels on an axle in the dremel and sanding the flange lightly. This will allow using the provided shoes without the difficulty in adjusting them. Nothing major, so don't let it hinder you from buying them! 

The stock shoes work great in the truck hole with minimal fuss. I take a little off the spring holder under the shoes to help them sit better, and I take a coil or two off the stock spring to cut back the bounce. 

Using the SWB position, there are no issues.

I am looking forward to trying the 2 lam arm in one of these chassis, but since I lack the tools to install one myself, I'm just going to wait until Dan offers them installed. Lowering a little of the power and speed the chassis produces makes my customs perform better.

But, to answer the OP's question, the gearing is the same, the magnets are hotter than a stock T Jet, the arm is comparable to an AW arm without the AW issues like warped coms. They are very drivable with stock tires at 22 V with a 90 Ohm controller.


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## lenny (Feb 29, 2000)

slotcarman12078 said:


> I am looking forward to trying the 2 lam arm in one of these chassis, but since I lack the tools to install one myself, I'm just going to wait until Dan offers them installed. L.


https://www.facebook.com/dashmotorsports/app_189977524185


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## slotcarman12078 (Oct 3, 2008)

Thank you Dan!! The 2 lam will likely work better for me, as the power curve better matches the requirements of my LEDs. I just got 10 chassis (indirectly) from Tom, but I'll order these directly when I get low again.:thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## Rich Dumas (Sep 3, 2008)

I just did up a Dash chassis with a two lamination armature for the HOCOC boxstock (more or less) Vintage Tin class. I substituted double flanged rear wheels because we run skinny aftermarket tires in that class and they are not likely to stay on stock Aurora or Dash wheels for long. I did note the interference between the shoes and front wheels and applied the same cure.
The car is a good runner, comparable to my Aurora cars, which have won races.
I have written a number of articles on tuning pancake cars, when I get time I will do one on Dash cars.


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## mrtjet (Dec 3, 2013)

So am I reading this correctly, a dash car with either three or two lam arms and even the 14 or 15 ohm arms are comparable to a tjet? I would have thought that with those arms and magnets that they would be a lot better then a tjet.


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## Rich Dumas (Sep 3, 2008)

They do not seem to be better than a GOOD T-Jet. The problem for someone new to the game is finding one of those. The best regular T-Jet magnets that I have measured are 650 gauss. The average of the magnets in the Dash cars is about 800 if I remember correctly. 
HOCOC would not have made the DASH cars legal, except possibly for a class by themselves, if they were faster than a decent T-Jet. As I stated earlier we did not want to force our racers to buy new stuff.
I expect that as more people become familiar with Dash cars a few more performance tweaks will come to light. It would be better for the hobby if people shared those with us.


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## mrtjet (Dec 3, 2013)

It will be interesting to find out if the performance tweeks kill the tjets competitiveness. I have a feeling that the lower ohms, and the magnets will do just that.


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## Rich Dumas (Sep 3, 2008)

The magnets are not a factor in classes where any ceramic magnet can be used. If a person races Fray or T-Jet SS cars chances are that he is using JL or Dash magnets. Having tested both the two and three lamination Dash armatures it seems to me that while they get you good top speed they do not have as much punch coming off the corners as the best Aurora or JL armatures. I would guess that is because the laminations are lighter.


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## mrtjet (Dec 3, 2013)

What I mean is stock dash against stock tjet. Blueprinted for the best possible performance from them. Of course with decent rear tires. No doubt in time the tjet will fade away due to attrition. But for the time being it will be interesting to see what the outcome will be in the short run. It would be cool if both could be run together for years to come with no clear cut winner. Kind of like a Chevy vs. Ford debate. No matter what happens I for one am glad that there is a Dash car now. Because for the foreseeable future the best slotcar ever made will be with us. Probably out live some of us! THANK YOU DASH MOTORSPORTS!


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## super8man (Jan 29, 2013)

It will be interesting with the Dash chassis floating out there. I noticed I did not like the rivets sticking out from the bottom of the chassis. And they seem to be a tad noisy. However, they run well and hopefully run consistently over the long term. I know when I pick up an ebay Aurora tjet and give it a once over and then apply power, sometimes they are as smoooooooth as butter. Some of the best Fray prepped tjets are that way too. Time will tell if the Dash can be like that. Fingers crossed. And, at the very least, we can always mix and match parts to keep both types of chassis running for many years to come.


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## Boosted-Z71 (Nov 26, 2007)

The Dash chassis can be made to run just like butter, I have one built to "current Fray standards" it will lap with the best of the fray aurora's that I have, and I have about 1/2 the $ & time in building it & getting it to that level, 

The new arms that Dan is producing are far superior to all but the hand picked best that aurora ever made. I have only found the slightest variations in Dan's armatures, that is a key ingredient to fast slot car. 

So these are going make a name for themselves in the pancake class real fast, equal speed, 1/2 the cost, way less tuning / tinkering time = Winner-Winner

Boosted


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## Ralphthe3rd (Feb 24, 2011)

*Apples and Oranges...*

MrTJet, just don't compare Apple Armatures to Orange Armatures...ie- if you take the original T-Dash Chassis, it came with the more powerful 14-15ohm 3 lam armature, while the Aurora are mainly running 2 lam 16-19ohm armatures. So only compare with a T-Dash 16+ohm 2 lam arm.
And for the record, Aurora made a 2 lam 6-7ohm Arm(Green Wire/Red tip, Green Wire/Grey tip),and used it in their Wild Ones, Tuff Ones, and a few Lighted Chassis, and those arms will BEAT a T-Dash 3 lam every time, as long as the Aurora Chassis has fresh Zapped Magnets(and in the case of the Lighted Chassis with 6-7ohm arms, they NEED Strong magnets coz they only came with stock weak magnets).



mrtjet said:


> What I mean is stock dash against stock tjet. Blueprinted for the best possible performance from them. Of course with decent rear tires. No doubt in time the tjet will fade away due to attrition. But for the time being it will be interesting to see what the outcome will be in the short run. It would be cool if both could be run together for years to come with no clear cut winner. Kind of like a Chevy vs. Ford debate. No matter what happens I for one am glad that there is a Dash car now. Because for the foreseeable future the best slotcar ever made will be with us. Probably out live some of us! THANK YOU DASH MOTORSPORTS!


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## mrtjet (Dec 3, 2013)

Ralphthe3rd said:


> MrTJet, just don't compare Apple Armatures to Orange Armatures...ie- if you take the original T-Dash Chassis, it came with the more powerful 14-15ohm 3 lam armature, while the Aurora are mainly running 2 lam 16-19ohm armatures. So only compare with a T-Dash 16+ohm 2 lam arm.
> And for the record, Aurora made a 2 lam 6-7ohm Arm(Green Wire/Red tip, Green Wire/Grey tip),and used it in their Wild Ones, Tuff Ones, and a few Lighted Chassis, and those arms will BEAT a T-Dash 3 lam every time, as long as the Aurora Chassis has fresh Zapped Magnets(and in the case of the Lighted Chassis with 6-7ohm arms, they NEED Strong magnets coz they only came with stock weak magnets).


My bad I assumed it was understood that I was comparing Apple armatures to Apple armatures.


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## slotcarman12078 (Oct 3, 2008)

Dash went to extremes with his arms. The com plates are consistently level, and the arms are consistent, and everything is perfectly aligned in assembly. No crooked shafts, wobbly com plates, or extreme variances in resistance. Dan has given us a vastly superior product, for an extremely affordable price. 

The 3 lam arms are comparable power-wise to an AW arm, but with extreme QC (something AW hasn't mastered) and with highly improved assembly techniques. Add to that all brass gears (except for the crown) and a more manageable 9 tooth pinion. Sure you could swap in a 12 tooth pinion and change the crown to match, and it'll be matched gearing wise to an AW chassis.

The 2 Lam Arm was made to accommodate the Frey type racers. I'm assuming that it, in a Dash chassis, is comparable to the Aurora 17 ohm arm (one of the better ones) performance wise. I have yet to try the 2 lam arms, but I can see them performing as well or better than a fresh out of the case Aurora T Jet with a hotter pair of mags.


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## Rich Dumas (Sep 3, 2008)

I am familiar with the Aurora 6 ohm armatures, HOCOC has several classes that use those. The performance of those armatures is all over the place, from no better than an average 16 ohm T-Jet armature to so powerful that a car would be nearly undrivable without extra magnetic downforce.


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## mrtjet (Dec 3, 2013)

Extra magnetic down force? Heck the fun in them is the lack thereof. I use my highly developed hand/eye coordination :freak:as my extra magnetic down force.


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## Boosted-Z71 (Nov 26, 2007)

I agree about the hand / eye / controller being your downforce equalizer, But I also have to agree with Rich, I have a mean green that is a torque monster, it needs all the magnetic downforce you can give to it.

Boosted


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