# Who's gonna shell out the bucks for the MLEV-5--Mars-Hopper?



## hal9001 (May 28, 2008)

I've anticipated this kit since it's announcement. I figured the price was going to be a high but didn't really think this high. I was hoping it wasn't going to be more than $150.00. This is not saying it's not worth the price because it is an outstanding piece. A little too large for most I would think, but when this thing gets built, man it will be impressive.!

So who of you are thinking about getting one?

http://www.culttvmanshop.com/MLEV-5...gasus--22495-PREORDER-RESERVATION_p_3255.html

Carl-


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## Mark McGovern (Apr 25, 1999)

"Not I", said the impecunious modeler with an already bloated stash of kits.


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

Will wait until it has been out a while and/or shop around. Cult is a very good vendor but is not necessarily the cheapest outfit. Tower Hobbies carries Pegasus kits and at $225 you would be up for a good discount with one of their monthly offers ($X off on a purchase over a certain amount that increases with the more you spend). Plus they have $2 or free shipping. I can see getting the kit from Tower at $175 or less.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Nope and nope. Put out a 6" one for $35, and I'm in.


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## RMC (Aug 11, 2004)

.............definte maybe......


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## Dr. Brad (Oct 5, 1999)

Sadly, no. It's too big (for my shelves), and not in the budget....


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## hal9001 (May 28, 2008)

djnick66 said:


> Will wait until it has been out a while and/or shop around. Cult is a very good vendor but is not necessarily the cheapest outfit. Tower Hobbies carries Pegasus kits and at $225 you would be up for a good discount with one of their monthly offers ( off on a purchase over a certain amount that increases with the more you spend). Plus they have $2 or free shipping. I can see getting the kit from Tower at $175 or less.



Dat's what I'm hoping! Still on the fence though. And like Mark and Dr. Brad said, it does put a squeeze on the budget and shelf space.

Do I need it? No. Do I want it? Bad. It's really cool. We'll see....

I agree with JP too, smaller would have been much better. _Huh, size does matter sometimes_. :freak:

Carl-


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## ClubTepes (Jul 31, 2002)

I thought the 'size' of the subject was smaller.
Sort of like a 2001 pod or a Star Trek travel pod.

Those are the porportions that the windows make it seem like.

Given the current size of the people to the subject, those windows are HUGE.
Never thought that this subject was that big.

I agree with JohnP make it smaller, like a two man pod and keep the scale at 1/32 and I think it would do much better.

I'm hoping that this won't be a bust for Pegasus.

If anyone from there reads this, since you already have the terminator license, spend your money on a 1/6 scale Terminator Endo-skeleton and you'll rake in some cash.


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

I'm all for big kits of certain things (mainly of big spaceships like capital ships) but I hope Pegasus haven't made a mistake by making this so big and expensive. This could have been done smaller, less complicated and less expensive seeing as it isn't of some well known craft.


I'll probably try and get one though at some point. I wish the astronauts were styrene though.


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## wander1107 (Aug 12, 2006)

The size doesn't bother me, it's the price. I've never paid over $100 for a model and when I came close $90, it was the original Tamiya F15E Strike Eagle.

I love the design and passion they put into this model, but the price is just to steep for me.


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## Rob P. (Jan 26, 2004)

I like space ship models, but mine have to actually fly, and I don't spend much more then $40 bucks on a model rocketry build. 

That being said, with the recent release of the Kane model, at @ $100.00 less then that Pegasus kit, my son who builds Alien/Sci-fi models can't touch the new high dollar kits. Too bad, cause its the kids that will carry the hobby, but they are being priced out of it. Can the industry say "Catch-22"

Rob


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

I collect WW1 and 2 rifles and machine guns so the price isnt a big deal. I just shop around. If the model had been a ship from a movie I would be more inclined to buy it versus it being a made up design. Compared to a $5,000 MG42 heavy machine gun its chump change.


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## scooke123 (Apr 11, 2008)

I'll pass on this one - don't have the room for it just like the other large kits. I'd love to have them but they would sit on my shelf. It will be an impressive model though!


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## spawndude (Nov 28, 2007)

I MIGHT spend those kind of $$$ on a kit but this isn't it.

A Discovery, Valley Forge, Nostromo, etc. One of these would definitely be a huge "maybe".


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

ClubTepes said:


> I
> 
> I agree with JohnP make it smaller, like a two man pod and keep the scale at 1/32 and I think it would do much better.



That's not exactly what I said. I just said make about 6". Meaning smaller scale. Same vehicle, same design, but smaller scale.


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## scooke123 (Apr 11, 2008)

I would be in for a smaller scale - like John said: 6" would be perfect. Would fit nicely on a shelf.


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## hal9001 (May 28, 2008)

John P said:


> That's not exactly what I said. I just said make about 6". Meaning smaller scale. Same vehicle, same design, but smaller scale.


Oops, sorry John P, I miss quoted the wrong person! My apologies.

I agree, the exact same design, just smaller.

Carl-


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

I would like to have one, but I look at the cost for this one kit and how many other kits now in release that I could get with the same money...

It is a great kit, I wish I could afford it...


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## Owen E Oulton (Jan 6, 2012)

Release the two figures at $10-$15 the pair, and I'm all over them. The pod? Meh. I like the scale, but I agree that a smaller 2-man pod in the same scale would be great. I'm on an extremely limited disability pension, and can't afford a kit anywhere near that expensive. $225.00 is six-nine months modelling budget for me, including tools, paint and glues, and space is extremely limited, as my living space is 1400 sq.feet.


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

In a good month, its priced in my spending range (under $300 or $350) but its big and not related to any well known movie or tv show or anything that would help generate interest to me. Id rather drop the $$ on a rare Aurora kit or a big resin kit, or something non kit related. Or just wait for it to surface on the second hand market at a show, on sale, ebay etc. I came across one of those big resin Conan figures that everyone bitched about for $25... it just pays to be patient.


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## bigdaddydaveh (Jul 20, 2007)

I have to agree with most folks here. I too was scratching my head wondering why this big of a scale and $$$ for a design not related to a major film or series. The design is cool as hell and the original was amazing but it just didn't make sense for a mass market kit.


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## Gothmog (Apr 30, 2007)

*Many to come*

I have already talked to Randy and the fine people at Pegasus, I will have my 3 as soon as the are released. I don't mind the price, and I like big models. I have been waiting for this for more than 3 years. Bout damn time.


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## spawndude (Nov 28, 2007)

I'm not so turned off by the price as I am the subject matter. Most people will have no clue what this thing is!


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

I do like the fact that a company has the courage to market a kit that is not tied into a specific TV or Movie. The old AMY Leif Ericson(sp?) was fun when I was a kid because it was wide open skies for the imagination- the little record that was included I listened to just once and then discarded.
Pegasus has a number of kits which have no tie in to anything before- no problem there. The big question is the size of this kit- great for detail but as mentioned earlier it is just cost too much...


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## veedubb67 (Jul 11, 2003)

I've been following this discussion very closely. I signed up for the MLEV kit early on and am still on the fence on whether to purchase it or not. Cost is certainly a factor, but I'm also taking a realistic view of my model building output. Why should I buy another big kit when I still have 3 different 1/350 Star Trek kits to build? It'll likely just sit in my closet collecting dust.

However, I do find it interesting that the same people who complain about the price of this kit didn't think twice about shelling out $200-$300 for a 1/72 Fine Mold Millennium Falcon when it first came out (or when it was re-released). 

I guess it comes down to personal preferences. I for one find the design unique (like the Nautilus), but just don't know if I'd ever get around to building it.


Rob
Iwata Padawan


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

veedubb67 said:


> I've been following this discussion very closely. I signed up for the MLEV kit early on and am still on the fence on whether to purchase it or not. Cost is certainly a factor, but I'm also taking a realistic view of my model building output. Why should I buy another big kit when I still have 3 different 1/350 Star Trek kits to build? It'll likely just sit in my closet collecting dust.
> 
> However, I do find it interesting that the same people who complain about the price of this kit didn't think twice about shelling out $200-$300 for a 1/72 Fine Mold Millennium Falcon when it first came out (or when it was re-released).
> 
> ...




I think the big difference is that something like an accurate Falcon has been on many peoples wants lists for years so people are prepared to pay much more for it. Same with something like a 2001 Aries (which this is similar too) whereas the MLEV is a new design. 

Again it's interesting and I'll probably try and pick one up at some point but for something that is a new design it could probably have been done smaller and less expensive.


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## Hunch (Apr 6, 2003)

If it comes with all that PE it shows...I'm in!


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## veedubb67 (Jul 11, 2003)

Looks like the shipping container has cleared Customs!



Here they are stacked in the warehouse.



Rob
Iwata Padawan


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## spindrift (Apr 16, 2005)

Amazing bold release- Pegasus is to be commended!!!


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## markcan (Jan 28, 2013)

I can understand a garage kit outfit charging a lot for their models, because they're labor-intensive and short-run. But a company like Pegasus should be able to do better than nearly two hundred dollars. Sounds like usury to me. I'll stick to my Captain Cardboard Aries.


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

markcan said:


> I can understand a garage kit outfit charging a lot for their models, because they're labor-intensive and short-run. But a company like Pegasus should be able to do better than nearly two hundred dollars. Sounds like usury to me. I'll stick to my Captain Cardboard Aries.



I've had this argument before. I actually can understand a company like Pegasus charging much more for something like this as making a plastic kit is *hugely* more expensive than producing a resin kit.

The point is it probably would have been better as a smaller kit.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

And Tamiya's new 1/32 Mosquito, priced at almost $300? Is that "usury"? Moebius' Jonny Quest Jet - 14 small pieces of plastic for $35? The answer is no, the answer is that ALL plastic models have gotten very expensive lately.


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## bigdaddydaveh (Jul 20, 2007)

Is it the raw materials or the cost of tooling that drives up the price I wonder? I can see a niche market kit like the Quest Dragonfly costing more due to the limited target audience but even car kits are expensive as hell lately.


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## finaprint (Jan 29, 2006)

I too looked at the Dragonfly and immediately put it back down after seeing that price. That one will be hitting the clearance tables real quick I'm thinking......

Putting all the eggs in one basket has folded thousands of companies that made great product. That Pegasus release is relatively unknown and priced too high, I'm betting they'll be eating some of those as well.........remember Atlantis and Blackbeard.

While one real big kit can be sweet I find I get a lot more high from several at lower prices. 

The general price increases have only raised my resolve to not pay for any unless below the normal going price. I have the funds to go higher but I just have a problem with where the kit companies seem to be going. They used to be more than reasonable but now it's getting to where the price makes me stop and think just what is it I have in my hands and how necessary is it to my working universe. Sadly, now the answer is not as much as it used to be, other things are now taking priority. Getting so now I can work on the custom bike or car as cheap as with the kits, there's something wrong there. I used to never put down kit boxes in the hobby store, now I do it all the time.


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## sg-99 (Jan 11, 2009)

Fantastic kit and a look at the kit

https://youtu.be/9H29tQD-xYk


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## misterggg (Jul 4, 2003)

*Who are you trying to kid*

You are all going to buy one because its friggin cool!


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## Cajjunwolfman (Nov 15, 2004)

finaprint said:


> I too looked at the Dragonfly and immediately put it back down after seeing that price. That one will be hitting the clearance tables real quick I'm thinking


To your point there priced at $24 at Squadron.


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## Cajjunwolfman (Nov 15, 2004)

IMHO.
I doubt the cost to produce these kits is 1/4 or 1/5 of retail. Quest jet likely expensive because of the license. 

I like Atlantis Models and want them to succeed. However I always thought the BB rerelease was a bad idea.


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## Dr. Brad (Oct 5, 1999)

misterggg said:


> You are all going to buy one because its friggin cool!


Heh. I would love to, but the budget won't allow for it. But yes, it is cool!


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## scotpens (Sep 6, 2003)

ClubTepes said:


> I thought the 'size' of the subject was smaller.
> Sort of like a 2001 pod or a Star Trek travel pod.
> 
> Those are the proportions that the windows make it seem like.
> ...


I also thought it was supposed to be quite a bit smaller, though it's a bit over-greeblied for a one-man or two-man craft. Just how big is this thing? (The hypothetical "real" Mars Hopper, that is.)


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## finaprint (Jan 29, 2006)

'To your point there priced at $24 at Squadron.'

How DID I ever miss that???? Big Dummie..........

Done and thanks for pointing that out.


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

Maybe more shots of a finished model with some guy's hands for scale might help sell it. 
... 'cause it's friggin' big, it is.

I hope they sell a lot of them. 
Sadly, for me, not enough room, not enough money ... and a wife with too much common sense. 

(You know, making the greeblies separate might have increased its worth to the kitbasher ... but it also would have increased the price a fair bit.)


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## BWolfe (Sep 24, 2013)

So, it is around 10 inches in diameter and stands around 15 inches high, not as massive as I thought but still will not fit in my display cabinet. If the price comes down, I may be tempted to get one.


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## Owen E Oulton (Jan 6, 2012)

Quick question - do any of you guys actually know what the word _usury_ really means? Thought not...


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

I looked it up after the first mention. It had nothing to do with the actual situation.


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## BWolfe (Sep 24, 2013)

Some info on Randy Cooper's facebook page that anyone building this needs to know:


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## scotpens (Sep 6, 2003)

Owen E Oulton said:


> Quick question - do any of you guys actually know what the word _usury_ really means? Thought not...


Thank you. I was going to point it out myself, but I didn't want to appear anal-retentive.

Usury, of course, means lending money at excessive interest rates. What we're referring to here is called "overcharging" or "highway robbery."




Randy Cooper said:


> A little FYI.. When you finish building the ball and the cradle sections, leave these pieces marked in yellow off. And your ready to attach them.


And as long as we're in Grammar Nazi mode, that should be "you're" (contraction of _you are_). "Your" is a possessive pronoun.


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## BWolfe (Sep 24, 2013)

scotpens said:


> Thank you. I was going to point it out myself, but I didn't want to appear anal-retentive.
> 
> Usury, of course, means lending money at excessive interest rates. What we're referring to here is called "overcharging" or "highway robbery."
> 
> ...


Actually I posted the photo from Randy's facebook page and I saw that (your instead of you're) as well, but there was no way to change it.


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## scotpens (Sep 6, 2003)

BWolfe said:


> Actually I posted the photo from Randy's facebook page and I saw that (your instead of you're) as well, but there was no way to change it.


Photoshop is your friend. :thumbsup:


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

I'm not even sure what "And you're ready to attach them" even means. "And" what? Is this an instruction of timing, or a statement about your state of mind? Yeah, I'm ready to attach them, so what? It's kind of a hanging sentence fragment.


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## hal9001 (May 28, 2008)

John P said:


> I'm not even sure what "And you're ready to attach them" even means. "And" what? Is this an instruction of timing, or a statement about your state of mind? Yeah, I'm ready to attach them, so what? It's kind of a hanging sentence fragment.


I 'think' it means, _'And then' _as in _after_ the suggestion in red type. Maybe? But, don't rule out the "state of mind" thing....

Carl-


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

My interpretation is "You have to get your fingers into these openings in order to line up the ball and cradle assembly, so leave the yellow thingies off until you finish the ball and cradle assembly."


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## scotpens (Sep 6, 2003)

SteveR said:


> My interpretation is "You have to get your fingers into these openings in order to line up the ball and cradle assembly, so leave the yellow thingies off until you finish the ball and cradle assembly."


Yeah, I _think_ that's what he meant. The way it's worded now is a bit confusing.


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## rowdylex (Jan 19, 2010)

For those who bought this and haven't started it yet, Randy Cooper has created an upgrade set with opening doors, flight suits for the lockers, some new decals and a few extra bits. 
With the doors opening, it would show off the great interior detail a little better.


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## Zathros (Dec 21, 2000)

*high priced high sized kits*

*I have had it personally, with the the exorbitant prices and bloated scales of these new issues. I just draw the line now at what price I will pay for any kit, no matter how great the subject. I think its gotten out of hand with PL's resin kits to Moebius' $114.00 super sized Proteus, which in my humble opinion, didn't need to be such a large scale, and if it wasn't it would of course be cheaper. I know I am gonna be the 'bad guy" here, but I think since these are aimed at adults, the prices are such..I don't think many kids or teenagers even, could afford em...I know, no one is puttin a gun to my head to buy em...but I have been getting tired of feeling gouged with just about every new release..

Z.*


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

Zathros said:


> *I have had it personally, with the the exorbitant prices and bloated scales of these new issues. I just draw the line now at what price I will pay for any kit, no matter how great the subject. I think its gotten out of hand with PL's resin kits to Moebius' $114.00 super sized Proteus, which in my humble opinion, didn't need to be such a large scale, and if it wasn't it would of course be cheaper. I know I am gonna be the 'bad guy" here, but I think since these are aimed at adults, the prices are such..I don't think many kids or teenagers even, could afford em...I know, no one is puttin a gun to my head to buy em...but I have been getting tired of feeling gouged with just about every new release..
> 
> Z.*




People should be wondering why some of these resin kits cost so much. Injection plastic kits are much, much, much, much more expensive to tool up so I don't think $114 is that bad for a new large scale Proteus.


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## Dr. Brad (Oct 5, 1999)

Kits are getting more expensive, that's for sure. I wish the MLEV were 1/72, but at the size and price I won't be buying one. That said I do look forward to seeing some build-ups.


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## finaprint (Jan 29, 2006)

I'm with you Zathros. They seem to think that putting details in kits now means they should get the equivalent of buying ten kits for it and therefore they make it so...............

I can see the future now, a guy brags about his $1000 model collection of...........5 kits. That would make my collection worth a cool one million. 

Variety of subject is what makes a collection not utter mass.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

I'll spring for the expensive Proteus, but the MLEV isn't "from" anything, so, no. But like I've said - if it was 6" and under $40, I'd get one for fun.

What saddens me is that it's no longer financially feasible to buy multiples of these kits to kitbash or try different things with. I'm lucky if I can afford _one_.


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## MEGA1 (Jul 18, 2000)

FYI for anyone looking to buy the kit, I recommend buying it direct from Pegasus. There is no dealer program, and any retailer selling it is just buying it at the consumer price from Pegasus and marking it up to make their own profit. Unlike some other websites, we weren't willing to do that, it's basically the definition of screwing your customers. So if anyone wants it, just check out Pegasus' site directly, you'll save some dough:

http://pegasushobbies.net/catalog/p...t_info.html?osCsid=ma2ponufdfljvmfcbsv4438ai4


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## harrier1961 (Jun 18, 2009)

Clicked on the link, and clicked on the "EXTRA INFO TAB" for the hopper.
This is what it reads:

_Extra Info
This product was added to our catalog on Wednesday 31 December, 1969._

Wow, long time in the making.

Andy


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## scotpens (Sep 6, 2003)

SUNGOD said:


> People should be wondering why some of these resin kits cost so much. Injection plastic kits are much, much, much, much more expensive to tool up so I don't think $114 is that bad for a new large scale Proteus.


Resin garage kits are expensive because the production and sales volume is so small. We're talking maybe ten or twenty kits of a given subject per year. And even with the prices they charge, the garage-kit guys aren't exactly getting rich.

EDIT: I see you were referring more to resin kits made by bigger manufacturers like Polar Lights. For that, I don't have a good answer.


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

scotpens said:


> Resin garage kits are expensive because the production and sales volume is so small. We're talking maybe ten or twenty kits of a given subject per year. And even with the prices they charge, the garage-kit guys aren't exactly getting rich.
> 
> EDIT: I see you were referring more to resin kits made by bigger manufacturers like Polar Lights. For that, I don't have a good answer.





Well to be honest I'm talking about all resin kits. People moan about paying high prices for plastic kits (even though many times they're not that high) yet they won't say anything when someone forks out loadsamoney for a resin kit. No matter which way you look at it resin kits are infinitely much cheaper to tool up than plastic kits so either resin kits should be much cheaper or plastic kits much more expensive.

I don't blame resin guys for trying to get as much as they can but there's absolutely no written rule that says resin kits have to be sold for so much as some of them are. It all depends on whether people will pay it or not. My main gripe is when people complain about the price of plastic kits. I agree that some of them are getting more expensive but the costs to tool these big kits up is a hell of a lot and some people even moan about the price of kits that are much cheaper as if this is still the 1960s.


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## Zathros (Dec 21, 2000)

SUNGOD said:


> Well to be honest I'm talking about all resin kits. People moan about paying high prices for plastic kits (even though many times they're not that high) yet they won't say anything when someone forks out loadsamoney for a resin kit. No matter which way you look at it resin kits are infinitely much cheaper to tool up than plastic kits so either resin kits should be much cheaper or plastic kits much more expensive.
> 
> I don't blame resin guys for trying to get as much as they can but there's absolutely no written rule that says resin kits have to be sold for so much as some of them are. It all depends on whether people will pay it or not. My main gripe is when people complain about the price of plastic kits. I agree that some of them are getting more expensive but the costs to tool these big kits up is a hell of a lot and some people even moan about the price of kits that are much cheaper as if this is still the 1960s.


* its not simply a question of a few bucks increase...$10, or even $15.00..really...$160.00 for a kit??? a plastic or resin model hobbykit..even if there was no technology boom since the 1960's..kids woudnt be able to get into the hobby anyway today...to bang out each kit that size, is about $8.00 a piece...if that much..The biggest expense is the steel mold ( if its polystyrene)If they keep these prices up, they will simply narrow the market so much, and then claim the kit was a poor seller. *


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## Owen E Oulton (Jan 6, 2012)

SUNGOD said:


> People should be wondering why some of these resin kits cost so much. Injection plastic kits are much, much, much, much more expensive to tool up so I don't think $114 is that bad for a new large scale Proteus.


Resin kits do not benefit from economy-of-scale. A tool for a styrene kit may be expensive, but can produce hundreds of thousands of kits. A resin mould can usually only produce about 40 pulls, then you have to make new moulds, with all the labour that entails.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

The garage kit guys over at Starship Modeler love it when you try to belittle their work. Go on over there and give it a try.


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## Zathros (Dec 21, 2000)

*I'm not referring to garage kit guys. I'm referring to the mainstream manufacturers. *


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

Why do people still think model making is for kids anyway. Most aren't even intelligent enough to pull the cap off a tube of glue any more these days anyway.

And even when kids built models, there were always large or expensive "adult" models. And wood ship models have been around for eons and they are large, expensive and aimed right at adults. $300 for a half way decent wood ship is cheap. So, if someone wants to come out with a large, expensive, adult oriented space kit, what is the big deal? It's not like there are not enough simple, child buildable, space kits already. One thing that bugged me with sci fi kits the most over the years is that so many of the kits were too simple.


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

Owen E Oulton said:


> Resin kits do not benefit from economy-of-scale. A tool for a styrene kit may be expensive, but can produce hundreds of thousands of kits. A resin mould can usually only produce about 40 pulls, then you have to make new moulds, with all the labour that entails.







Yes but even if you have to make more moulds it's still infinitely cheaper and resin kits don't usually sell in huge quantities anyway. Again I don't blame resin guys for trying to get as much as they can but people should bear in mind how expensive injection kits are to make.


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

Zathros said:


> * its not simply a question of a few bucks increase...$10, or even $15.00..really...$160.00 for a kit??? a plastic or resin model hobbykit..even if there was no technology boom since the 1960's..kids woudnt be able to get into the hobby anyway today...to bang out each kit that size, is about $8.00 a piece...if that much..The biggest expense is the steel mold ( if its polystyrene)If they keep these prices up, they will simply narrow the market so much, and then claim the kit was a poor seller. *





I think Pegasus would have been better doing the MLEV as a smaller less expensive kit as it's only a small craft anyway but now it has been made so big they have to make their money back on it so I hope they do sell a lot of them. I'm not saying every kit should be in that price league but it was no doubt expensive to make.


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

I do think it is a rather odd choice since its a huge kit of a totally original design (not that there is anything wrong with the design). But it lacks the appeal of a known ship like one of the pods from 2001, the Ares, etc. To me, it falls in the same class as the Pegasus Nautilus. Nice kit... well done, well detailed, but not what I want. I want the Disney Nautilus. Not something that looks rather close to, but not the same as it. I'd buy a big 2001 pot or Ares but not something that looks sort of like it. 

I did see one of the kits and it is really cool. You do understand the price a bit more when you see the box in person. It's hard to grasp how big this thing is just looking at little online pictures.


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## TAY666 (Jan 8, 2000)

SUNGOD said:


> Yes but even if you have to make more moulds it's still infinitely cheaper *and resin kits don't usually sell in huge quantities* anyway.


And that is why resin kits are expensive.

Spend $2,000-3,000 to have a sculpt done.
Another $1000 to have molds made.
Hope to sell 25 casts and you need to ask $160 a kit just to make those costs back. And you still have to figure in your resin costs. If you are lucky, you sell more than 25 and can actually make some money to put towards the next project.


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

TAY666 said:


> And that is why resin kits are expensive.
> 
> Spend $2,000-3,000 to have a sculpt done.
> Another $1000 to have molds made.
> Hope to sell 25 casts and you need to ask $160 a kit just to make those costs back. And you still have to figure in your resin costs. If you are lucky, you sell more than 25 and can actually make some money to put towards the next project.





It's still a hell of a lot cheaper. It costs about £50,000/$90,0000 to make an injection mould. And then there's all the other costs like licensing, packaging etc to go on top of that. The costs are incomparable and plastic kit manufacturers aren't always guaranteed to make their money back either so even though they can probably sell much more in theory plastic kits should still be vastly more expensive than resin kits.


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## finaprint (Jan 29, 2006)

I don't personally care to hear about business people who are not guaranteed to make their money back. Not doing so on a regular basis is a direct reflection of their business acumen. They took on the risk when they decided to go into business and the way it works. Look at what do they do to fix that? Go to other countries to make sure we have no guarantee of employment thus killing their sales of product. Freakin' counterproductive to their own ends if you ask me. Were any of those companies stupid enough to not think their competition would not eventually do the same?

1960s wage $1.60/hr., one kit $1-$2, so maybe a kit cost one hour labor. Lots out there at that rate. I bought hundreds of them. 

2015s wage $7.50/hr. what can you buy? Same kit in re-release from same old molds cost like $16-$22 nominal now. Some at $30+. So would need $16-$30 hr. pay rate to afford one an hour and not everybody grown up makes that. I made that $30 and more but rebelling against it anyway. The only people that can afford them are the ones making good money now and the entire system trying to kill as many of those jobs as they can. 

It doesn't matter that injection is cheaper than resin once the injection itself gets too high. I dropped resin buying a long time ago. 

I worked in automotive quite a bit and the same logic holds there as well. You can no longer find simple parts that commonly break any longer, they wiped the parts book of them in 'unitizing structures' that now force you to buy big subassemblies to get the one crucial part you need. The rest you just bought for nothing. Luckily I have the wits to be able to fix most broken parts to work better than they did when new and I don't need the new part road hardly at all. 

I see the huge monster kit as being an indicator of more of that, or, we need to sell kits big enough now to make up for 10 normal kit sales at a time. I do NOT like the look of that at all. We'll probably see more combo kits like Round2 is doing with the Lindberg now. Same reason. Look at what killed Aurora, upscaling product to then have people not buying it, Charles Diker was full of crap. 

Pegasus at least has irons in both fires. I like their idea of smaller cheaper kits to appeal more to the masses. 

The kit market is being narrowed already but not by the kitmakers alone. Much bigger things going on than that. If you are in any line of work that involves anything that could be construed as 'leisure' you should be concerned for your job. 

Moebius and the original Polar Lights started this with the bigger kits that went to $60 then $70 and above, then each new one after seemed to go higher. I bought the last big Seaview but then decided no more. No room, got the cash but wanting a more varied collection than just a handful of 'supermodels'. I've always had an internal limit to which I think, 'it's just a plastic model kit' and I don't think I need to go higher than that limit, which is $100. I broke it a couple times then stopped. Maybe it was the heart attack that forced a perspective change there. That and looking at the world changing around me second by second. Plastic models for 50 years were my drug of choice, I need to exert at least the most infinitely small amount of restraint there. 

My personal view only, to each his own.


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## Josellas (May 20, 2004)

djnick66 said:


> Why do people still think model making is for kids anyway. Most aren't even intelligent enough to pull the cap off a tube of glue any more these days anyway.
> 
> And even when kids built models, there were always large or expensive "adult" models. And wood ship models have been around for eons and they are large, expensive and aimed right at adults. $300 for a half way decent wood ship is cheap. So, if someone wants to come out with a large, expensive, adult oriented space kit, what is the big deal? It's not like there are not enough simple, child buildable, space kits already. One thing that bugged me with sci fi kits the most over the years is that so many of the kits were too simple.


Oh I agree. There are so many large edition model kits out there from sailing ships, various submarines, spaceships and planes, a wide arena of specialty models for the young and adults to have a great time building. This build of the MLEV 5 was a little bit of a challenge, but everything fit like a glove and it is a superb execution of a unique design of a fantasy space vehicle.


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## BobbysMonsterModels (Mar 8, 2014)

Does it have fangs? Furry hands? A demented looking face?
If not, I'm gonna have to say "pass".


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## Josellas (May 20, 2004)

BobbysMonsterModels said:


> Does it have fangs? Furry hands? A demented looking face?
> If not, I'm gonna have to say "pass".


Well, at times it seemed like it did as it was being illuminated and weathered. Lol.


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## seaQuest (Jan 12, 2003)

Okay, 20 years ago I was between Hollyweird modelmaking gigs and I accepted a job with Carl Macek's Streamline Pictures Modelworks. If you remember, they made subjects from Street Fighter and Speed Racer and Heavy Metal magazine. Yes, the kits were pricey. Yes, Carl had unrealistic production goals and I don't think he understood the vagaries of resin kit production. He gathered talented artisans like Al Zequira (who hired me) and Alex Rivera (who used to post here as Falcondesigns until he ran afoul of somebody, probably Griff) but while I believe he understood art, he didn't understand practicality insofar as the relatively short lifetime of an RTV mold (and some of the molds were hella complex), the overhead he incurred with the purchase of a resin gun-injection system (he referred to us as "resin gunslingers") and the cost of 55 gal drums of both resin and catalyst. 2-part resin is, quite literally, liquid gold, especially the type we were using. Carl and his business partner, Fred S. Patton (yes, THAT Fred S. Patton, anime guru) weren't getting rich off the garage kit business. Hell, they weren't even making money from the Streamline Pictures Video Comics line of english-dubbed anime VHS titles. I came in at a bad time. Streamline was imploding.

The day I started there, Al Zequira was packing up his stuff. He had accepted a job working for James Latta at the fledgling Icons Authentic Replicas. He pulled me over to one side and apologized to me for not being around. He saw something in me and wanted to mentor me to be something other than just a modelmaker and mold-filler. But there wasn't a place for me at Icons (at least not yet). Then, as he was leaving, the shipping-and-receiving guy yells across the workshop to Carl that Diamond Distributors had just cancelled their entire order for the Heavy Metal diorama kit. (You may remember it, it was from a cover of the magazine where a bikini-clad female welder was being sexed-up by a robot.) Then the workshop spiralled downward from there as Carl tried to have us step production up to convince Diamond to pick up the kit again with the molds deteriorating along with his orders blatantly disregarding CAL-OSHA regulations. I couldn't deal with the conditions anymore and left. Carl sold the business a couple of months later to finance the movie Heavy Metal 2, the new owner moved the business from Santa Monica to Exposition Park downtown then paid for expensive licenses that he couldn't follow through on, and Streamline went out with a wimper.


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