# Chariot Warning - check your kit now!!!



## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

Got six Chariots today from my wholesaler... four had BAD tire melt. The rubber tires are packed loose in the bag with the hull parts and had melted into the silver plastic. Real bummer. Whatever they used for the black tires (and tracks?) is not plastic friendly. This potentially can be a problem with the wheels as well when you fit the tires.

Anyone else have this problem??


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## Tim Nolan (Jul 9, 2008)

Oh poo! Not good news!


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## xsavoie (Jun 29, 1999)

Has anyone warned Moebius about this problem.


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

Here is a spot on the hull tub with marks from the tires and tracks. The marks are mushy - oil from the tires and tracks has melted into the styrene piece.










Hull end with track marks...










Moebius should look into this...


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## falcon49xxxx (Aug 4, 2008)

Putty and sanding should take care of this.Might have been left in the hot sun too long.alexander


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## Moebius (Mar 15, 2007)

If replacements are needed, we'll get them out as soon as possible. We'll check with China on the problem.


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## scooke123 (Apr 11, 2008)

That is bad news!! I've ran across this problem with some old Aurora armor kits from the 60's. The rubber tracks loose in the boxes melt into the plastic- must be something with the soft rubber. I hope if you have a bad Chariot kit they will replace the damaged parts.
Steve


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## Ductapeforever (Mar 6, 2008)

Please alert Moebius now. As soon as they are aware of the problem it can be addressed.


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## azdacuda (May 7, 2008)

Moebius has already seen the post and replied. Hats off to the quick response from a top notch company who cares about its product and customers.


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## Rebel Rocker (Jan 26, 2000)

Glad I came on here today! Just bought a kit at my LHS today, saw this and quickly checked and, yep, some damage. Not as bad as what was pictured above, though, and it looks like it is in a place that will be hidden. But, spending 50 bucks on a kit, it's still a little upsetting. (The damage, not the price!!) (And , yes, I know I could have gotten it cheaper on-line, but I occasionally like to show my support for the LHS!!)

Wayne


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## falcon49xxxx (Aug 4, 2008)

Thanks Frank.alexander


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

falcon49xxx said:


> Putty and sanding should take care of this.Might have been left in the hot sun too long.alexander


Well yes but 1) a new kit shouldnt come melted 2) car companies like AMT and Revell solved the tire melt problem in the 70s 3) How are you going to get anything delivered to you without it being in a truck? 4) if you are one not to paint a model that is molded in the base color, you are kind of stuck.

I will have to wait a while to apply putty. In the past I have found that if you putty over a tire burn that is still soft, it will just be soft under the putty, and get all hairy when you try to sand it down.

For me it sucks becaues out of six kits, four are unsalable (well one doesnt count becuase its mine)...


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## Auroranut (Jan 12, 2008)

I've come across this issue before. It's called vinyl melt. When you build your kit, one thing you should do is put some sort of barrier between the vinyl and styrene. Not having seen the parts breakdown, one thing I can recommend is spreading a thick layer of superglue between the wheelrims and any other points of contact before assembling. I've done this and it definitely works for me. 
It's a fairly common occurrence in older kits where the vinyl parts are in contact with styrene and is a good reason to check old kits and make sure the vinyl parts are kept seperate. I haven't seen it happen so quickly before but it'll be a fault of the Chinese manufacturer, not Frank, and I'm positive he'll sort the problem out quickly. :thumbsup: 

Chris.


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

azdacuda said:


> Moebius has already seen the post and replied. Hats off to the quick response from a top notch company who cares about its product and customers.


I never doubted they wouldn't be on top of it :dude: It just sucks when stuff like this pops up...


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

I'm sure the chinese just couldn't see the parts very clearly through the smog and pollution...


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

Y3a said:


> I'm sure the chinese just couldn't see the parts very clearly through the smog and pollution...


Their smog and pollution probably catalyzed the reaction...:freak:


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## scooke123 (Apr 11, 2008)

I'm sure the problem will be taken care of - who could predict a problem with the vinyl tires? A shame frank has to deal with a problem right off the bat with such a cool kit.


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

scooke123 said:


> ...who could predict a problem with the vinyl tires?...


Well, these first-run chariots are now instant collectibles. :dude:

I hope future non self-dissolving kits will be marked as such.


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## Dave Metzner (Jan 1, 1970)

I think that I need to speak up in defense of our Chinese partner. I have worked with the factory in China that is producing our kits for many years. These people work very hard to produce a quality product, and they have years of experience producing model kits.

They produced tens of thousands of car kits for Polar Lights - every kit had PVC tires and styrene bodies. We NEVER had problems with PVC tires reacting with styrene parts.
I have a good selection of Polar Lights car kits and test shots in my stash, I have just been checking some of them - not one has any sign of this problem.

We have been in contact with our Chinese partner and they tell me that they have not changed sources of raw materials and they are as puzzled by this as I am. They suspect that the silver coloring powder used in the plastic may be contributing to this problem but do not really know.

They are running replacement plastic parts for us as quickly as they can. We will provide more information as soon as we have it to give.

Thank you for your patience

Dave


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## DMC-12 (Oct 7, 2007)

Ouch yeah I just got mine and one of the tires was stuck hard had to use my Gerber pliers to get it off , but still :woohoo: I finally have a MODEL CHARIOT im so happy. Heck Im gonna Leave the marks and just say its damage from the old girl getting packed and unpacked by the Robinson's so many times 


Moebius thanks for making a childhood kit dream come true!

Cameron


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## frankenstyrene (Oct 5, 2006)

Plasticizer migration. Happens.


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## otto (Jan 1, 1970)

Thanks Dave, Sorry this had to happen to you fellows. Hopefully it wont cost Moebius to much $$$ to get the problem fixed. I remember the vinyl in the old Marx action figures would melt hard plastic, it took years though. This is quick! A month or so? I wonder if their supplier changed the formula. I'm sure they will get to the bottom of this. Thanks again for your efforts, and again my sincere condolences. I wouldnt wish this on anyone...well...maybe Lapco..


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## Auroranut (Jan 12, 2008)

otto said:


> I wouldnt wish this on anyone...well...maybe Lapco..


 

Chris.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

DMC-12 said:


> Ouch yeah I just got mine and one of the tires was stuck hard had to use my Gerber pliers to get it off ..


uh-oh, I don't have gerber plyers! I hope my Craftsman plyers will work!


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## otto (Jan 1, 1970)

uh-oh, I don't have gerber plyers! I hope my Craftsman plyers will work!


Sorry John, Craftsman wont cut the mustard, You need to go out and get some new ones. BWAAAHAAHAAAA


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## Moebius (Mar 15, 2007)

As Dave mentioned, we are getting parts made now. We should have replacements soon. As of yet, no one has e-mailed for replacements. Feel free to let me know by e-mail at the website if you do need them, and they will be sent out as soon as we receive. Please don't message me here, as there is only so much room in the mailbox and it fills very quickly.

I appreciate someone posting this to warn builders of a potential problem, but it would probably be as constructive to let us know directly so we can address it. Thanks again, Frank.


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## otto (Jan 1, 1970)

Your a good man Frank! Hopefully you will get the parts made for free, since it was Chinas fault. Still a big PITA, but youve handled it well. Hats off to you!


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## Admiral Nelson (Feb 28, 2002)

PM Moderator said:


> I think that I need to speak up in defense of our Chinese partner. I have worked with the factory in China that is producing our kits for many years. These people work very hard to produce a quality product, and they have years of experience producing model kits.
> 
> They produced tens of thousands of car kits for Polar Lights - every kit had PVC tires and styrene bodies. We NEVER had problems with PVC tires reacting with styrene parts.
> I have a good selection of Polar Lights car kits and test shots in my stash, I have just been checking some of them - not one has any sign of this problem.
> ...


We appreciate the effort to correct whatever is going on, Dave.


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## Admiral Nelson (Feb 28, 2002)

John P said:


> uh-oh, I don't have gerber plyers! I hope my Craftsman plyers will work!


Use your teeth.


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## Moebius (Mar 15, 2007)

otto said:


> Your a good man Frank! Hopefully you will get the parts made for free, since it was Chinas fault. Still a big PITA, but youve handled it well. Hats off to you!


Thanks Otto! There is no cost for the parts, but as you say, it is a big PITA. We hate to have a product out that has a problem, especially something we've all been waiting so long to see. We're actually a year into this project, and to see it come in with a problem is a little depressing. As with everything else, it is a learning experience for us. China as well! As Dave mentioned, this never happened with any of the PL car kits. The Chinese have told us it is the exact same formula that has been in use. Possibly the pigments to make the silver caused it as Dave stated. We'll get it resolved!


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

This is not unlike the fogged Mach 5 windshield incident, and is being handled with equal class.


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## azdacuda (May 7, 2008)

Frank, 
thanks for your concern and the quick action to correct the issue, no one could have predicted what happened, one suggestion would be to see if china could wrap the tires in a separate bag, or wrap it with tissue for future shipments. I have bought a few car models that were packaged that way.
Don't worry about this little glitch you guys produce the best models anyone could have dreamed for and I for one look forward to buying more of your wonderful products in the future.
Best wishes for continual success.
Mike


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## phantom11 (Jul 12, 2007)

Question: on an assembled chariot, will a layer of paint and lacquer on the wheels protect them from possible melt through contact with the treads?


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

I just hope no one in China dies over this, or ends up in prison, like last time.

On second thought, NOBODY SNIFF OR LICK THOSE CHARIOT PARTS! :drunk:


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## falcon49xxxx (Aug 4, 2008)

There is no evidence that this is not an isolated incident.There are many reasons why this might have happen,one might be that a few cases were left in a hot container too long.From what I have been reading,it seems to be in Fla.that this is happening.Jumping to conclusions is not fact,it is speculation.alexander


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

falcon49xxx said:


> There is no evidence that this is not an isolated incident...


You mean the Chinese are trying to kill "Lost in Space" modellers?


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## frankenstyrene (Oct 5, 2006)

falcon49xxx said:


> There are many reasons why this might have happen,one might be that a few cases were left in a hot container too long.From what I have been reading,it seems to be in Fla.that this is happening.Jumping to conclusions is not fact,it is speculation.alexander


Heat may exacerbate it but it can happen just as easily in a cool, dark place. The chemicals that make vinyls flexible leech out and go where they're not supposed to...like into rigid styrene they're in prolonged contact with. The styrene takes on the plasticizer and softens ("melts") wherever they touch. 

Now, how toy companies keep vinyl parts from melting hard plastics they're in constant contact with...maybe they use coatings on the rigids, inhibitors, different formulations for the vinyl, I dunno.


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## scotpens (Sep 6, 2003)

Gotta be the MSG in the vinyl treads -- or the dog meat in the styrene!

(No offense intended to our honest, reliable and industrious Chinese manufacturer. We know the Chinese don't eat dogs. It's the Koreans who do that!)


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## gareee (Jan 1, 1970)

This can easily happen to any company. When Disney released Hercules, they released a 18" muscle flexing herc. you bent his arms, and his arm and chest muscles bulged, a plastic skeleton under a rubber skin.

Anyway, a year or so after I got mine, I happened to walk past where he was displayed, and shock, surprised!!! I was looking at rotting flesh zombie Hercules, taken over by Hades of the underworld!

The plastic skeleton under the rubber skin has reacted with it, and ALL the skin was now dripping down, gooey in shreds! it was VERY sticky, kind of like plastigoop only partially cooked.

Fortunately, I had put him on a wooden base, and the goo had flowed down his body, and was covering the base. I can't imagine the poor kids finding him on top of other beloved toys in their toybox!

My only concern, over initial boxed damage, is if the tires will react with the treads or wheels they need to mount on.

I'm thinking a coat of future floor wax over the inside of the wheel hubs might be the best solution, since it's durable enough to not scrape off when putting the wheels on.


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## phantom11 (Jul 12, 2007)

What about just a layer of acrylic paint on the wheels with dullcote lacquer over that? Will it be sufficient to protect the plastic wheels from the treads?


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## gareee (Jan 1, 1970)

acrylic is so soft, I'd be concerned about it rubbing off under the wheels.. and since the chariot can be rolled around, you know there will be at least some friction there.


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

phantom11 said:


> What about just a layer of acrylic paint on the wheels with dullcote lacquer over that? Will it be sufficient to protect the plastic wheels from the treads?


A thick layer of brushed on acrylic paint or some laquer should do it. A potential problem is when you paint the tracks (they aren't black).


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## gareee (Jan 1, 1970)

The...tracks... aren't...black???

I hate to even ask.. why wouldn't the tracks be molded black, and what color are they molded in?


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## Paulbo (Sep 16, 2004)

If only the snowcat had used segmented, instead of flexible, tracks this issue would be moot - either the original kit would have come with nice, solid tread pieces with hinge pins or somebody would have made them as an aftermarket accessory.

As it is, Moebius has promised to replace treads for all those that request them, so I think as long as you don't let them touch the undercarriage all should be right with the world ...

Except the non-black issue. Any treadheads out there that have dealt with the painting issue with armor?


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## kirkenglish (Aug 13, 2008)

I have just received my chariot about one hour ago, and yes, I have tread burn on the inside of part #2, and many tire burns on the outside of part #2. One which is on the curve of the outside, which may be a problem.


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

gareee said:


> The...tracks... aren't...black???
> 
> I hate to even ask.. why wouldn't the tracks be molded black, and what color are they molded in?



The real tracks are a bit different than most tank tracks as they are a continuous rubber belt or band with metal strips riveted or vulcanized in place. They are not individual links pinned together like on say a Tiger tank. The bars/cleats on the track are metal and would be "metallic" when new but generally a worn greyish/tanish/brownish shade when dirty. The rubber parts are black, but that would weather out to a dark grey. The outer row of guide teeth where the wheels sit are little finger shaped protrusions. On the inside are hollow inverted "V" shaped horns. The road wheels have rubber tires to contact the inside of the tracks for a smoother ride and less wear. The tires are smooth (although the kit tires have tread) and are fairly narrow. I would guess the real tires are about a foot wide.

Painting the tracks in an armor kit isnt a big issue, although the tracks in the Chariot seem to be more rubbery and soft (like a pencil eraser) than most tank kits include. The newer tank kit tracks are all either seperate links (Dragon), or link and length (Tamiya, Italeri) for the most part. Newer "vinyl" tracks are gluable with model cememt (AFV Club). I would try painting the Moebius tracks with either acrylics, or Tamiya's Polycarbonate flex paint for RC Car bodies. They make a PC steel color...


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## Auroranut (Jan 12, 2008)

As I wrote on page 1 (post#13), one way to fix the problem is a barrier of superglue between the vinyl and styrene. Coat the styrene parts with superglue before assembling and it'll help protect it from the vinyl. 

Chris.


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

If you painted the tracks engine black, then dry-brushed the high points with silver or steel, that'd be pretty close.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Should advise the manufacturer to pack the treads in a plastic bag from now on!


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

John P said:


> Should advise the manufacturer to pack the treads in a plastic bag from now on!


Right, then the tracks dissolve the bag, and the bag and tracks can then dissolve whatever else is in the box. Maybe the box should have a HazMat warning sticker? :freak:


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## Rattrap (Feb 23, 1999)

While it's annoying, this is hardly a new problem. Bandai and Tamiya have been dealing with it for years, as you've probably noticed if you frequent any armor boards. Also, whoever provides the rubber feet for Panasonic equipment has the same problem, as I found out when I went to move a VCR at work that had been in the same place for a while, and found it was now glued in place.

It might be worth wrapping a spare tread around a standard grey body and see if it does the same thing. If it doesn't, then future releases come out in grey, and problem solved...


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## rondenning (Jul 29, 2008)

:woohoo:
Just received my 2 Chariot kits from Steve!!
I was starting to get bummed out by all the threads talking about treads not molded in black, making a working top-bubble, and especially the melt marks!!
I opened both kits and:
1) treads in both kits molded in BLACK :thumbsup:,
2) top-bubble is a separate piece which can be opened or closed ,
3) there are very light melt marks (should be able to sand them out) on parts #5, and #2 in the first kit, but the second kit had much deeper melt marks on parts #2(on the bottom, and MAY not show when kit is finished), and #5 high enough that it will show.
I will contact Moebius to see if I need to send them these parts to have them replaced.(they are responding, in the message boards, like true professionals on this issue)
I think a complete coat of paint on the tire rims, and a clear sealer over it will stop the vinyl to styrene contact that causes this problem, in a completed model.(that should be the only area of contact to worry about)
Overall these seem to be the Chariot kits I have dreamed of having since I was a kid!!! Excellent detail, and the parts have little to no flashing that I can tell on preliminary exam!
The instructions are much improved over the Pod's, and even have a correction for a part location on a separate piece of paper.
That shows Moebius's dedication to getting it right!:thumbsup:
I have both the Pod and the Chariot now and can't wait to start them both!!
I personally think Moebius hit one out of the park on BOTH of these kits!! 
Thank you MOEBIUS !!!! 
Now bring on the after market add-ons!! :lol:
Ron:devil:


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

No one ever said the tracks weren't black... just the real tracks aren't black and painting the somewhat funky rubber will be tricky.

Instructions seem to be really nice. 

This is one of those kits that once you get all the parts out of the box they dont fit back in!


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## rondenning (Jul 29, 2008)

oops! Forgot to mention, I agree that having the treads and tires put into seperate bags from the styrene parts should solve this problem!!:thumbsup:
:devil:Ron:devil:


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## rondenning (Jul 29, 2008)

Yes, I agree it is hard putting all of it back in the box!!:freak:
Sorry on the tread thing, I may have missed the response when someone said something about painting the treads and someone else asked about painting them and why they were not black.
But, I am REALLY loving these kits !!!!:thumbsup:
Waiting for the figures from the other thread now!!!:lol:
Ron:devil:


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## Dave Metzner (Jan 1, 1970)

We work hard to make it difficult to put the kits back in the boxes. We figurre that you'll have to build it if you can't get it back in the box!

Dave


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## rondenning (Jul 29, 2008)

That's so funny Dave!!!
Make us build it!!(like you really have to):lol:
I can't wait to start building, I am online now ordering paints, and finishing supplies for both Chariot and Pod!:thumbsup:
I always liked that a model had so much with it that it could not go back in the box! LOL!!
Thank you guys for a great kit!!
Ron:devil:


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## otto (Jan 1, 1970)

PM Moderator said:


> We work hard to make it difficult to put the kits back in the boxes. We figurre that you'll have to build it if you can't get it back in the box!
> 
> Dave


HAAA I KNEW it! A conspiracy indeed!


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## falcon49xxxx (Aug 4, 2008)

PM Moderator said:


> We work hard to make it difficult to put the kits back in the boxes. We figurre that you'll have to build it if you can't get it back in the box!
> 
> Dave


After all,that what it is all about,anyway.alexander


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

A minor warning - if you test fit one of the tires onto the wheels, its real hard to take it off...

Zap-A-Gap fixed the tracks together although Zip Kicker made them crumbly and brittle on the edge. Weird.


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## Ravenauthor (Jan 24, 2004)

Got 2 chariots today. One through the mail, and the LHS called to let me know they had one in. Both have very minor circular marks on the bottom piece. Shouldn't see it when assembled so that doesn't bother me. Doesn't seem like the tank treads left any marks on the hull pieces, so not every kit has that problem.


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## Ductapeforever (Mar 6, 2008)

I just got my Charoit from LHS, there was very minor damage from the wheels on the bottom tub, and a slight imprint from the tracks on the inside of the tub. Niether will be a problem to correct. Fabulous kit otherwise. Thanks Frank and Dave !


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## Capt. Krik (May 26, 2001)

Just got one of my 2 kits today. Some minor marks on the bottom tub. On the flooring and on the underside of the piece. No biggie. A little filler and sanding and you'll never know they are there.

Great looking kit, Frank and Dave. Thanks again for all the great stuff you're producing.


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

djnick66 said:


> ...the real tracks aren't black...


Actually, the tracks _are_ black. The rubber is black, and the steel cleats are oxidized black. Where the steel contacts the ground, the oxide wears off, leaving a shiny area. See Phil Broad's website:

http://www.cloudster.com/Sets&Vehicles/Chariot/Chariot.htm


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

toyroy said:


> Actually, the tracks _are_ black. The rubber is black, and the steel cleats are oxidized black. Where the steel contacts the ground, the oxide wears off, leaving a shiny area. See Phil Broad's website:
> 
> http://www.cloudster.com/Sets&Vehicles/Chariot/Chariot.htm


I think you mean Anodized

Well yeah so you need to paint most of the track unless you want it to look like its on the showroom floor. The full size prop tracks are very much weathered. The metal parts are obviously not black. At some point it looks like the guide teeth on the track were colored (maybe to help when fitting the track as there is an inside and outside) although the kit tracks have no guide teeth.


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## phantom11 (Jul 12, 2007)

Just got mine yesterday, and sure enough found only some very minor marks on the underside of the tub; nothing a little sanding won't fix, and won't be visible anyway when assembled. And as everyone else here has noted, it's an AWESOME kit, truly what I've been wanting since I was a kid, and can't believe I actually have it. Can't wait to get it painted up, customized, get some figures for it and just sit back and enjoy looking at the little beauty....


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## j2man (Jun 18, 1999)

I got mine today! There was a small set of tracks agains the area that the wheels were covered. My main concern is that there is a hairline fracture in the rear canopy (rear quarter window). I am amazed at how quickly I received it after notification that it was shipped. I do love the kit, even though it has some damage. I do want to thank Frank for his quick response to my pod replacement radar dish.


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## Gerry-Lynn (Mar 20, 2002)

Just got mine from CultTVman - Opened it - Sure would like to know how they pack stuff... Anyway - Not one bit of a problem - Not one.

And Moebius - Well done - Very well done!

Gerry-Lynn


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## sirkillianthere (Apr 21, 2008)

*Give Moebius*

Com'on guys. Don't sweat the small stuff. Would suggest just living with this small defect. If Mobius has to send out lots of replacement parts, they will surely lose money on this kit. Can't imagine they're making much money anyway. This has got to be a niche market. What do you want, an absolutely perfect unblemished kit. Or Moebius existing long into the future, ensuring lots of amazing new kits we've always dreamed of? My 5 kits all have a bit of this issue, but I am not going to ask for replacement parts...


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## Zathros (Dec 21, 2000)

Here is an easy fix to protect and coat the wheels and treads that I have used with Vinyl parts..Just go to any auto shop and buy a spray can of "automotive vinyl primer", and it usually comes in black ..Its used for the vinyl seats in cars ..its sprays on semi gloss, and is very pliable, and wont crack off...I use is as a primer on vinyl kits and its a great barrier before painting..and btw, my first chariot that I opened did indeed have damage from the tires..I will open the other one and see tomorrow.


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## Zathros (Dec 21, 2000)

I opened up my second one..No damage or problems at all...so I would assume this is a "semi" isolated situation...

Z


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

sirkillianthere said:


> Com'on guys. Don't sweat the small stuff. Would suggest just living with this small defect. ...


I see where you are coming from but disagree totally. When you plop down $40 for a kit you should excpect it to be undamaged. If you bought a new car and it had a hole in the seat would you just live with it? Or if you bought a new shirt and some buttons were missing...

In the modelling world this is a fairly common occurance... I can think of these examples from the last few years:

Revell Messerschmitt 110 - ripple in one fusilage side
Airfix Nimrod (brand new kit) - screwed up decals
Trumpeter Pontiac Bonneville - rough "sandy" chrome parts
Trumpeter F6F Hellcat - bulge in fusilage from taking parts out of the mold too soon


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Got mine today at HiWay Hobby. A few of the wheels were stuck to the bottom of the tub, with minor damage that can be sanded out. No biggy.

Y'all should definitely be packin' the rubber parts in their own bag.


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## john_trek (Apr 13, 2000)

In my kit the rubber tires and treads were packed in their own bag, and I got one of the first kits to arrive at my local hobby shop.


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## otto (Jan 1, 1970)

john_trek said:


> In my kit the rubber tires and treads were packed in their own bag, and I got one of the first kits to arrive at my local hobby shop.


Hmmm, the plot thickens..Maybe just a portion of the 1st run came with unbagged treads?


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

otto said:


> Hmmm, the plot thickens..Maybe just a portion of the 1st run came with unbagged treads?


Well mine were in a bag... just in a bag with the big hull, lower chassis box and hull ends


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## azdacuda (May 7, 2008)

I got mine yesterday and mine also came in a bag with the big hull, lower chassis box and hull ends too. Very minimal damage to the Lower hull and the Chassis ends, very easy to sand out. No big deal to me.


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## Dave Metzner (Jan 1, 1970)

No Otto, All the packages should be alike.
If there are any kits with PVC parts in separate bags they would be corrections for mistaked made on the packing line at the factory.
The procedure for packing kits is that all the bags of components are assembled first then the bags of parts are brought to the packing line and placed in boxes....
Any examples of kits without PVC parts in the same bag as lower body parts are accidental occurances.

Dave


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

PM Moderator said:


> ...All the packages should be alike...Any examples of kits without PVC parts in the same bag as lower body parts are accidental occurances.


At least a few dealers are hip to the problem. Maybe _they_ repacked the kits? With the damage evident now, I'd hate to see what would be left in a factory-packed box, five or ten years from now.


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## idMonster (Jun 18, 2003)

I just went through all of the kits we had on the shelf here (Skyway Model Shop, Seattle http://www.skywaymodel.com ) and we were 7 for 7 with the tires and treads melting the styrene parts they were bagged with.

We removed the vinyl parts from those bags and placed them into their own Zip-Lock bag to prevent any further damage.

The damage was not too bad on the kits we opened and should be easily remedied with a few strokes of a sanding stick.

BTW - if you're in the market for a Chariot we got a good price break on our first shipment and are selling them for $35.

Gordon


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## Steve244 (Jul 22, 2001)

Hiya Gordon!

nice shop! It's enough to make JohnP jealous!


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## Jaruemalak (Jun 12, 2008)

sirkillianthere said:


> What do you want, an absolutely perfect unblemished kit?


Well, yeah, actually. I paid 45 bucks for this kit, and, while I do agree that it is a simple fix, it is a problem. No, I do not plan on asking for replacement parts, but when you spend over 40 dollars on a model, you have a right to expect it to be unblemished. It is called quality control, and the fact that Moebius is addressing the problem means that they BELIEVE in quality control. 

That said, it is a beautiful kit with BEAUTIFUL instructions! (Thank you!) I took my wheels and treads out and put them into a separate ziploc bag, until I get around to building the thing... which the way things go around here, will be sometime in 2015!


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## mcdougall (Oct 28, 2007)

*You guys have GOLD !!!*

Are you kidding !! In 10 years from now , people will be paying Top Dollar on ebay for one of those 'RARE' first edition Chariots with the tire treads immortalized on the plastic body...don't sand them out...it will prove authenticity :thumbsup:
Mcdee


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## Auroranut (Jan 12, 2008)

Kind of like a misprinted stamp or badly stamped coin...

Chris.


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## Bruce Bishop (Jan 17, 1999)

The 2 I ordered came today and both had rubber/plastic melt problems. I repackaged the rubber parts in paper envelopes for now and hope that solves the problem for future use.


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## scotpens (Sep 6, 2003)

Just got mine today from House of Hobbies in Burbank. It's got a few tiny marks on the hull bottom that can easily be sanded out. No sweat. In fact, if I were unaware of the styrene/vinyl issue, I'd think they were just scratches from shipping and handling. Of course, I immediately separated the treads and tires from the styrene pieces to prevent further problems.

Man, this kit is a beaut! Building this thing is going to be more fun than sex!


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## rondenning (Jul 29, 2008)

That depends on who you cast in the role of Judy, during your Chariot build. She was always sooo good at handing Don the tools!!!
Ron:devil:


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

Jaruemalak said:


> I paid 45 bucks for this kit!



When I got my kits in stock at my shop, they came at a higher wholesale cost and with a $49.95 retail price. I had a waiting list for the kits and sold a couple at that price (which is when I found the wheel problem when people popped the kits open after purchase). Oddly that evening I got a call from my wholesaler saying they had accidentally jacked the price and they were not $49 and that I would get a credit on each kit for what I overpaid... sux for the people that bought the kits first thing...


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

$31 and change at HiWay Hobby.


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## WarpCore Breach (Apr 27, 2005)

The Pod goes for $40.00 here in Canada - or at least at all the LHS I've been to - so I fully expect the Chariot - when it reaches here in about another month - to be $50. If not more.


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## gaetan (Apr 6, 2005)

Hey Warp 

Where are you in Canada ? Here in Montreal , Udisco sells it for $24 CA and you can buy by Internet.....

Gaétan


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## WarpCore Breach (Apr 27, 2005)

gaetan said:


> Hey Warp
> 
> Where are you in Canada ? Here in Montreal , Udisco sells it for $24 CA and you can buy by Internet.....
> 
> Gaétan



Gaetan, I'm in Edmonton. Was that $24 for the Pod? I didn't check them out, didn't occur to me. Shipping/postage and the "fuel surcharge" might eat up any advantages, though. I'll have to check it out. 

Thanks! :thumbsup:


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## gaetan (Apr 6, 2005)

Hello Warp 

The Pod is selling fo $21 at the same place. And ''the Chariot'' is $24.

Gaétan


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## j2man (Jun 18, 1999)

I priced the Chariot at 39 something at Hobbytown U.S.A. in Kentucky..Pod was 39.99......


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## nunn98464 (Aug 11, 2008)

*Melted tires*

Hi there, I haven't received my Chariot kit yet, but arn't the clear parts in a plastic bag of there own? If so, did the rubber go through the bag as well?


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

The tire melt has nothing to do with the clear parts. The tires are in a bag with the chassis parts. The clear body is in its own bag, as is the large clear sprue with the lights, doors, etc.


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## Dave Metzner (Jan 1, 1970)

The PVC parts are bagged with the Hull bottom and chassis parts. The PVC does not react with the material of the poly bags which contain the parts, The Clear parts are contained in their own separate poly bags.The PVC parts cannot touch the Clear parts inside the boxes! 

Dave


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

gaetan said:


> ...Here in Montreal , Udisco sells it for $24 CA and you can buy by Internet...


The problem with Udisco is that they won't tell you what shipping costs, until _after_ your item ships, and your card has been charged. I found out the hard way; I kept clicking through the checkout, expecting to find some way of determining shipping in advance- but nothing- even after order confirmation.

There is almost nothing on the site about shipping policy in general, either. I've never run into this before. You Canadians are supposed to be morally and politically superior to us- what's the deal, here?


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Thanks for the warning! I'll check my kit this evening.


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## gaetan (Apr 6, 2005)

I never tried Udisco shipping system as I live 20 minutes from the store. I went there yesterday to buy my 2 Chariots. Not the most ''smiley'' guys but surely the most inexpensive in my case. I am really sorry that you couldn't get the shipping cost before the payment was done, that is bad...

PS My 2 Chariots have very sligth marks done by the vinyl on the chassis. Just a light sanding will correct the situation. Being used to the Lunar Models Chariot dimensions, I knew this one would be bigger (I even enlarged a plan to 1/24). But I am still amazed by the sheer size of it....

PS#2 Sorry about your unanswered request Toyroy , just saw your PM 2 minutes ago...

Gaétan


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

I'm not unhappy with the total: $35.12. Hobby Warehouse is charging $49.95, plus tax.


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## Ego1JR (Jul 3, 2003)

*Chariot Warning*

My kit arrived today. It too had some minor (to me) issues with the rubber tread scarring the inside of the Chariot body. Nothing that a little bit of sanding won't correct quite easily. Definitely won't be looking for any replacement parts from Moebius.

Have to admit...the Chariot was the least desirable Irwin Allen kit coming from
Moebius this year. The Seaview and Space Pod were the two biggies to me.
However....after seeing the Chariot kit and seeing the level of craftsmanship and accuracy, I have completely changed my opinion. Have to put the completion of my Space Pod into over-drive just so I can get started on the Chariot! :thumbsup: Great job Moebius.

By the way....count me very much "in" for wanting a Moebius version of the Jupiter 2. The Polar Lights kit was great for what it was and it filled a big gap however seeing what Moebius has done with the first three Irwin Allen kits I can only imagine what their version of the J2 would be. 

JK


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

I like all three kits. The Seaview is the cleanest and I think best engineered. The Pod is maybe the best detailed. The Chariot is nice but too toylike and simple. A current Dragon tank kit has 600-900 parts and this only has 100somethign? Too simplistic to be a serious model. Not that it looks bad... but it takes a lot of work to make it into half way realistic For example its nice you get seat belts, but they are useless as all of them are identical... toylike...


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

I found melting tires in my kit as well. Thanks for the warning--I only have a mild problem with the surface of the Chariot bottom and it should, once it dries up some, sand away okay. 

I don't see any need to get a new part as far as I can tell but I REALLY appreciate the demonstration of great customer support and communications that Moebius has exhibited. :thumbsup:


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## enterprise_fan (May 23, 2004)

I just got mine today. WOW! The box is bigger than I expected. Yes there was "tire" damage but it was on the underside out of sight. There was minor "tread" damage on the back bumper area, it can be sanded out. No other visable defects. 

I wasn't expecting the rubber tread. What is the best glue to connect the ends? 

Nice glossy instructions. 

Did everyone get an index sized correction card noting the mis-numbering of parts 35 & 36?


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## WarpCore Breach (Apr 27, 2005)

I placed an order with Udisco for the Chariot last night... today, I got the email notification that the order shipped, with $12 shipping and the usual taxes on top of that so the final price was $37.12 Cdn.

So far, so good! That's still cheaper than what the Pod cost me (plus tax) in the LHS! BUT! It's not here yet! I hope there's no other unexpected charges!


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## gareee (Jan 1, 1970)

Got both my pod n chariot from cultvman today. Opened them up, to peek some, and had only minor bottom part melt marks on the chariot's bottom.. easily something I can live with.


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## xsavoie (Jun 29, 1999)

If you live in Canada and order several kits from Udisco in the same order,you then save a lot on postage.


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## David Lanteigne (Apr 26, 2002)

enterprise_fan said:


> Did everyone get an index sized correction card noting the mis-numbering of parts 35 & 36?


I got the correction card. Slight vinyl damage, only to part #2, top and bottom, but nothing to cry about. One funny thing was a small, sealed, empty bag, and six axles and two screws rolling around loose in the box. Those two facts seem to be related.


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## scotpens (Sep 6, 2003)

David Lanteigne said:


> . . . One funny thing was a small, sealed, empty bag, and six axles and two screws rolling around loose in the box. Those two facts seem to be related.


[IMG-LEFT]http://www.filmreference.com/images/sjff_01_img0329.jpg[/IMG-LEFT]

Assembler #57, report to the manager's office for disciplinary action immediately!


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## starseeker2 (Jun 13, 2008)

Got 2 Chariots and a Pod in Canada for a couple pennies less than $100 including shipping from KarenLee Hobbies. They should arrive tomorrow. Shopped there before - great prices and service. Pod by itself was near $60 in the one LHS that had heard of it.


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## LGFugate (Sep 11, 2000)

I just got my two Chariots from Cult today! Both had very minor wheel and track marks on the styrene parts in the bag with them. I've attached photos of the damage to the bottom chassis. These marks will be easy to remove, even for a klutz like me!!!

:woohoo:

Larry


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## scooke123 (Apr 11, 2008)

Got mine and it was very slight damage on bottom - no big deal to me. I'll keep it that way to show I had one of the initial kits in the first batch. Super great model too - was worht the wait!!!!
Steve


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## JohnGuard (Jan 13, 2008)

the slight melt marks on the bottom dont bother me as much as the scuff marks of the top clear bubble.
any ideas on how to clean it up??


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## Dave Metzner (Jan 1, 1970)

Bare Metal makes a plastic polish that works like a champ!
Dave


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

Airbrush or dip the body parts in Future. It makes clear parts even more clear and shiney. Its a great way to take care of any coudy areas, scuffs, scratches from sanding and polishing, etc.


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## Jaruemalak (Jun 12, 2008)

I just saw a blog on the Moebius MySpace page that says the tire marks are caused by the way they react to the metallic styrene from which the kit is molded, and they will no longer produce the metallic styrene kits. They will be molded from gray styrene from now on.

Kinda makes me want to hold on to this one, for rarity sake, and buy a new one in a couple months to actually build.


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## starseeker2 (Jun 13, 2008)

Got my 3 kits from KarenLee on Thursday. No signs of tire/tread/kit interaction. Tho the model body is about 1/2" too long and 1/2" too high for 1/24 scale, so vinyl eating plastic is the least of my worries. The height is easy. But I'm about to cut 1/4" off all the way around the ladder section and then try to re-assemble the clear parts without any damage. I've been looking at it for 3 days and am still too afraid to start cutting. Tomorrow...


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## Rattrap (Feb 23, 1999)

Got mine over the weekend. Minor scoring on the belly pan which should be easy to fix. Obviously, one more plastic bag will prevent the problem in the future, but I'm not terribly upset.


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## WarpCore Breach (Apr 27, 2005)

Got my Chariot from Udisco today! :woohoo:

Wow, that's a big box!! Certainly much bigger than any standard car-type vehicle, isn't it?? But I always did like the Chariot (much more so than the late-addition Pod), right after the Jupiter 2, of course!

Now, to the matter at hand. My kit also has the crazing on the outside bottom of the lower body. Some of it are like scored ridges right along the lower curve of one side, plus there is obvious marks from the treads and several of the tires. Since those are largely on the bottom, it doesn't concern me too much (and the body parts are now separated from the vinyl parts) as some of the damage would be quite convincing as the "scrapes and bumps" any real working vehicle would get. After all, weren't there Chariot-sized boulders thrown at it at least once?!?! LOL!

Over all, I'm very impressed with it's size. I'll have to do a thorough inspection later on, plus with the great builds showing up here, I'll have a fair bit of references to sort through!


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## AJ-1701 (May 10, 2008)

I got a relly good surprise when I checked my Po box at the post office... My chariot had rocked up through CultTVmans from across the pond quicker than I thought :woohoo: and after reading this thread I immediatly tore off the plastic wrapping. Only to dicover there is some melt marks on the bottom of the main chassis. No drama really as I'll be placing it on a fixed display base anyway. There are a couple of melt dimples on the lower front section near each of the spot light mounts but I think these will sand out ok . if not I can work them in as enviromental damage from use. :thumbsup:


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## BruceDownunder (Aug 25, 2008)

Mine had the obligatory gouges too - one of the tirese was actually stuck to the chassis.
Of more concern was surface abrasions on the canopy, especially across the windscreen. At first I thought (hoped) it was just mold release, but after a good cleaning and gentle rubbing they were still there.
Oh well... It's all weathering. 

Incidentally, how come this vehicle, with it's large windscreen size and it's intended purpose doesn't have windscreen wipers?

At the end of the day, it's The Chariot and my gratitude goes out to Moebius for producing the kit and to you guys for this forum.

Cheers,

Bruce


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## AJ-1701 (May 10, 2008)

G'day Bruce, 

I haven't check over my entire kit yet. As for the clear bits try Pledge one go, its an acrylic floor polish i got from coles. I reckon it's our answer to floor finish some of the blokes here use. I did a test on the seaview window I didn't use by putting a decent couple of deep scratchs in it and then dipping it a couple of times in the pledge it did fill the scratches. :thumbsup: I could still just see em in certain light and angles but I knew where they were and the rest of the clear just shone compared to the half I didn't dip. I also put in on the window of my finished flying sub cause it was a bit off after masking, trimming and clean up. All I can say is wow!! it came out like new.


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## scotpens (Sep 6, 2003)

AJ-1701 said:


> G'day Bruce,
> 
> I haven't check over my entire kit yet. As for the clear bits try Pledge one go, its an acrylic floor polish i got from coles. I reckon it's our answer to floor finish some of the blokes here use.


Pledge acrylic floor polish is the same product as Future. Johnson Wax simply consolidated their furniture and floor care products under the same name for better brand recognition. I don't know what the label looks like Down Under, but in the U.S. the new label says "Pledge with Future Shine." It's exactly the same stuff.


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

After being held hostage by a broken parcel locker for several days, I finally have my chariot kit. I got lucky; there are some small vinyl marks, but not on any prominently exposed surfaces.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Jaruemalak said:


> I just saw a blog on the Moebius MySpace page that says the tire marks are caused by the way they react to the metallic styrene from which the kit is molded, and they will no longer produce the metallic styrene kits. They will be molded from gray styrene from now on.


That's one way. A less drastic way would be to pack the vinyl parts in their own bag with no plastic parts.


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

Jaruemalak said:


> ...the tire marks are caused by the way they react to the metallic styrene from which the kit is molded, and they will no longer produce the metallic styrene kits. They will be molded from gray styrene from now on...





John P said:


> That's one way. A less drastic way would be to pack the vinyl parts in their own bag with no plastic parts.


I'd prefer to see Moebius continue molding in the metallic color, for the sake of modelers who don't want to paint what they don't have to(BTDT!) It's a good color match. Of course, I realize there must be some other fix, beyond the packaging. 

The prototype tires look to me like they could be well represented by neoprene O rings. But then, I don't know the chemistry!


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## scotpens (Sep 6, 2003)

Metallic-colored styrene still has the same problem it had when it was used for aircraft and spacecraft kits back in the 1960s. The metallic pigment never gets distributed evenly in the molding process -- there are always streaks and swirls in the plastic. Since 99 percent of builders are going to paint the Chariot body anyway, I say go with the plain gray styrene for the next production run.


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## WarpCore Breach (Apr 27, 2005)

I think this bears repeating, right from the first page of this thread:



Auroranut said:


> I've come across this issue before. It's called vinyl melt. When you build your kit, one thing you should do is put some sort of barrier between the vinyl and styrene. Not having seen the parts breakdown, one thing I can recommend is spreading a thick layer of superglue between the wheelrims and any other points of contact before assembling. I've done this and it definitely works for me.
> It's a fairly common occurrence in older kits where the vinyl parts are in contact with styrene and is a good reason to check old kits and make sure the vinyl parts are kept seperate. I haven't seen it happen so quickly before but it'll be a fault of the Chinese manufacturer, not Frank, and I'm positive he'll sort the problem out quickly. :thumbsup:
> 
> Chris.



Thanks Auroranut!:wave:


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

scotpens said:


> ...99 percent of builders are going to paint the Chariot body...


I question that figure. For one thing, I hear that kids are buying Moebius models.


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## Cajjunwolfman (Nov 15, 2004)

*Are Chariot problems resolved?*

Kudos to Moebius! Thanks for giving us models we have long waited for in an era when Scale Modeling is considered a "dying" hobby. Long live modeling!
Now that the Invisible Man is coming out I am getting ready to make my purchase of Moebius products. My income tax refund,and all my summer savings from not going to the Nats, etc will go into this "Mass Purchase". At this time I am not going to purchase any Chariots due to all the associated problems. The only way I will change my mind on this issues is if I receive sufficient assurance satisfactory resolution available. What is the feedback from members experience on the Chariot situation?


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## gareee (Jan 1, 1970)

You already read a lot of the feedback here.. and many of use had negligable or minor issues.


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## otto (Jan 1, 1970)

Cajun, Frank has replacement parts too if I remember correctly, so if you do have a vinyl melt on the part Frank can send a new part out. Its a win win situation with Frank at the helm.


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## Geoff Boaz (Jan 1, 1970)

otto said:


> Cajun, Frank has replacement parts too if I remember correctly, so if you do have a vinyl melt on the part Frank can send a new part out. Its a win win situation with Frank at the helm.


I just might have to do this too. I opened my kit last week, and 3 of my tires had created deep grooves into the chariot's base. I've been debating seeking a replacement base without the damage (worth the hassle or not), but the more I think about it the more I'm inclined to. Hmmm...

At any rate, until I can get to building the kit I wrapped each tire in a strip of paper towel and placed them all in a baggy, away from the other parts. I also took the treads and straightened them out and placed them in a paper towel as well. (They come folded upon themselves and could retain that bend memory if not straigntened out pretty quickly.)

Still, an awesome kit and a great job by Frank and crew.

Regards,

Geoff


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## teslabe (Oct 20, 2007)

Nether of my two kits had enough damage for me to ask for replacement parts, that made me happy. I did move the tires to a bag and took the treads and laid them flat. 
You're right, Geoff, it's a great kit.......


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## otto (Jan 1, 1970)

The way I see it, if Frank went to the trouble to get new parts made, the least we can do is use them, if needed LOL..


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## Moebius (Mar 15, 2007)

Cajjunwolfman said:


> Kudos to Moebius! Thanks for giving us models we have long waited for in an era when Scale Modeling is considered a "dying" hobby. Long live modeling!
> Now that the Invisible Man is coming out I am getting ready to make my purchase of Moebius products. My income tax refund,and all my summer savings from not going to the Nats, etc will go into this "Mass Purchase". At this time I am not going to purchase any Chariots due to all the associated problems. The only way I will change my mind on this issues is if I receive sufficient assurance satisfactory resolution available. What is the feedback from members experience on the Chariot situation?


Chariot replacement parts packs are in stock, I can send as many as you need!


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