# Model kits at retail...why they fail.



## StyreneDude (Nov 16, 2012)

There are so few retail stores that even carry model kits any more...There's no model section at Toys R Us, the world biggest toy store? Go figure. Wal-Mart recently brought them back, and I've seen them at Drug Mart, Pat Catan's and Hobby Lobby, but none of them carry any figure kits. Just the same old boring current model car kits. It's no wonder kids aren't interested. Is a ten year old gonna be more likely to buy a cool superhero or a 2013 Chevy Malibu.
Furthermore, why don't the companies that DO produce figure kits put forth a little more effort getting them into stores? 
I'm sure if kids actually saw kits like Mars Attacks, Superman, Wolverine, etc on store shelves along with actual built-up displays like Aurora used to do it would make a huge difference in sales. All other building toys have displays showing the possibilities of the product.
Model kits need to have the same marketing push. I really think beautiful factory painted store displays would go a long way towards helping kit sales. That's why Aurora did it.


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## Frankie Boy (Feb 28, 2002)

Times have changed. The model-building hobby is predominantly for older, indeed middle-aged, (mostly) men. 

And, with all due respect, I think you've got your cause & effect a little backwards. Kids aren't interested in model-building because there aren't any kits on the shelves, there aren't any kits on the shelves because kids aren't interested in model-building. It's the logic of the marketplace, nothing else. Do you seriously think that if a kid really had an interest in model-building they wouldn't be able to find what they want on-line?

Model-building, as we know it, is a left-over hobby from a by-gone era, I'm afraid, that is (luckily enough for us) kept alive by the enthusiasts (myself included) in an indisputably niche market. 
But once we're gone ...


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## hal9001 (May 28, 2008)

Frankie Boy said:


> But once we're gone ...


Hey, speak for yourself, I plan on living forever, because that's about how long it will take me to build the kits I have. Not to mention all the great new kits coming down the pike!

Carl-


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## Zombie_61 (Apr 21, 2004)

hal9001 said:


> Hey, speak for yourself, I plan on living forever, because that's about how long it will take me to build the kits I have. Not to mention all the great new kits coming down the pike!
> 
> Carl-


:lol: Same here!

But I'm afraid Frankie Boy is right--model kits simply aren't as popular as they once were. Many of us here on Hobby Talk started building kits in the 50s-70s when our choices for indoor entertainment consisted of radio, a handful of television stations, books, and whatever movies were playing at the local theater. Kids today have those, plus cell phones, computers, the Internet, cable/satellite television with 5,000 channels, video games, DVDs/Blu-Rays, MP3s, and a wide variety of sophisticated toys that don't simply sit motionless on a shelf. They have neither the time nor the desire to spend hours, days, weeks, and sometimes months, to learn how to build a model kit when there are so many other ways to entertain themselves that require little or no effort on their part.

Yes, there are some exceptions, but they're few and far between; this hobby simply isn't what it used to be.


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## Rob P. (Jan 26, 2004)

Zombie_61 said:


> :lol: Same here!
> 
> toys that don't simply sit motionless on a shelf.


Speak for your self! My youngest boy and my nieces and nephews are not so sure that my models don't get up and move around. Particularly on a stormy night! 

But then I am told that I can spin a fairly scary tale or two to add some convincing. 

Rob


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## Zombie_61 (Apr 21, 2004)

Rob P. said:


> Speak for your self! My youngest boy and my nieces and nephews are not so sure that my models don't get up and move around. Particularly on a stormy night!
> 
> But then I am told that I can spin a fairly scary tale or two to add some convincing.
> 
> Rob


In my youth I spent many a night falling asleep to the soft yellowish glow of the Forgotten Prisoner of Castel-Maré kit I'd built. Ahhh, those were the days...


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## -Hemi- (May 5, 2014)

I agree withthe first posting to an extent. they took them "off" the shelves, HOW do kids of ANY age (even us) see them to strike an interest?

I seen an add for Model cars from where..........Toy R Us! WELL wentto the local Toys R Us, and walked around aimlessly for about half an hour till some cute girl asks "Can I help you" I turned looked and said, you sure can, any model cars in here? I seen an ad.....She calls over her store held wireless phone, and comes back with nope, I'm sorry, anything else your looking for? I was like well I seen an ad someplace online recently about the store having model kits....(I dug a bit deeper) turns out certain stores in certain areas may be participating in carrying a line of models to be built....SO, somewhere someplace Toys R Us does have them.....It again I bet depends on where they "sell"!!!! 

Now granted, if the kids "
seen" the stuff on the shelve it at least offer it to them.....A couple of local places to me carries model cars one place has all sorts of crazy models to be built, BUT the owner is an A-hole. Micheals Craft Store has a pretty large model car area, (I'm always looking. I just wished they carried more paint choices!) Hobby Lobby has a decent models area, then you have the HobbyTown USA thats not exactly local but about a 30 minute drive.....local enough for me. and then thats the same place "Plaza" that Hobby Lobby is in too! Which has a few good choices in paints, brushes and some other stuff.....Even Air Brush items, which Micheals lack in! Then one other place local to me is on Main Street, that sells Antiques, and has Trains in there along with, yep, model cars and trucks, and has a decent paint supply as well......Hes a GREAT guy tho, I've known this one owner for a long time.....

But as its said here, if these places offered it in just the slightest bit, it at least give the younger generation, a choice, NOT remove it all together......Thats like they're shooting themself in the foot.......

Then so what if no one buys anything for a year? At least you offered it, and that one or 2 young kid that wanted to assemble one as Dad watched, well.........MAYBE that struck an old nerve in him to get back into it and thats how hobbies strive. it takes only a grain of rice to follow to the next one, for the mouse to eat well. and to look for more.....This crap of let pull every item or group of items that doesn't sell is for the birds, at least offer a little to string a interested person, on!


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## Matthew Green (Nov 12, 2000)

Agreed StyreneDude with everything you said. WISH more figure kits were out there. I HATE car, jets, boats models.


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## StyreneDude (Nov 16, 2012)

Frankie Boy said:


> Do you seriously think that if a kid really had an interest in model-building they wouldn't be able to find what they want on-line?


I absolutely do...I've tried to expose as many of my friends kids (since I don't have any of my own) to models, and none of them had any idea model kits even _existed_ before I showed them. Most showed little interest at first, but I kept insisting how much fun they'd have if they just tried it, and they eventually came around.

One kid collects Star Wars figures and is now into building the model ships, and I got another one to build a Moebius Iron Man (his favorite super hero), and he's now working on War Machine.They've both got the bug now.

I did what the manufacturers failed to do. Exposed them to the product and got them interested. This is where getting product on shelves is key. Built-up displays wouldn't hurt either, and how about some good old fashioned TV advertising.

Kids can't search out something online they don't even know exists.


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

StyreneDude said:


> Is a ten year old gonna be more likely to buy a cool superhero or a 2013 Chevy Malibu?


Cool superhero model kit? I'm afraid not. Cool superhero _action figure?_ Yes.


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## robiwon (Oct 20, 2006)

I don't have kids myself, but I have a 7 year old grandson. He spends a lot of time at our place and sees all the models I've built. He's definitely more than interested. And you know what? I just exposed him to one of the greatest modeling experiences of all time, I took him to Wonderfest last weekend! He was excited beyond belief at what he saw and had a smile on his face all day long. He did the Make and Take and even got a coupon for a free kit at the SSM booth and got a free pin too. He got a WF t-shirt and the ladies there even threw in some more free pins. He had his pic taken with Ironman, a Stormtrooper, the Ghostbusters, and Jaws, etc.


I have cleared a spot on my desk so that when he comes back over next week we will work on building his model kit.







Heck, we even took my wife's ex-husband as he is a sci-fi geek like us. He's been a family friend for 21 years now. Guess what, he had a great time too!



So, companies may not be doing much to push the hobby, stores may not be doing much to push the hobby, I'm doing my part. 

What about you?

This has been a public service message of "Adults Pushing the Hobby".

:wave:


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

robiwon said:


> I don't have kids myself, but I have a 7 year old grandson.


I... wait, what?


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## robiwon (Oct 20, 2006)

Come on John, not hard to figure out. My wife has three daughters from her previous marriage.  Two of them, the youngest and the oldest, both have two little ones each. So, even though I don't have kids of my own, I do have four grandkids!:thumbsup:


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

I gave up on Toys R Us back when they had the Polar Lights/Aurora kits. A clerk came up and asked if he could help me find something and I said I was looking for the Rodan model. He said Rodman? Why would they make a model of Rodman?

I recall when Wal Mart opened one of their first stores in my area they had some built up store display models. One was the big Lindberg Robert E Lee side wheeler. It was very quickly destroyed.


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## Rob P. (Jan 26, 2004)

Kids like models, if they are exposed to them. I have three boys and they all built models at one time, the eldest and the youngest still do. Here's the youngest boys built ups............


Currently he has an Alien and a Predator on the work bench. Summer has slowed him down a little, but on rainy days he is model building. If a kid has an adult to help them start, they will be interested. Nieces and nephews would like to build as well. They however live too far away for me to actively help and my BIL and SIL have no interest. That is the scenario that the model companies have to overcome. How do kids build with out the parents helping? If no other adult is near to help? 

Rob


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

I am introducing my Stepson to model building and he really likes it. He has dyslexia and is more of a 'hands on' person, holding something, turning it around and making it complete works great with his head. We have some quality build time each week and soon he can be working on a kit of his own and I will be building another one for myself.
He had little interest in actual models until I moved in. When he saw what I had done something just clicked.
When I was growing up there was a local toy store which had a glass cabinet of built models- seeing what was in there and seeing the kit box inspired me to try and do the same job with mine. Opening up a box and seeing trees of parts can be intimidating, but seeing the end result of what it can become gives you focus...


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## BobbysMonsterModels (Mar 8, 2014)

Well. TRU sucks period for anything nowadays, even toys, not just it's lack of plastic models. I am also a toy collector, and I can remember back in the mid 1990's TRU use to carry every conceivable toy in the world. They had this huge glut and variety of toys. It was always fun to walk into the store every week, and see what new stuff was being stocked on the shelves. Of course, our economy was great back then. It didn't suck like it has for the last 6 years now (but I won't go into that…sore subject). At some point, TRU decided that the only toys they were going to carry were toys sold by the big league toy manufacturers, all small companies were eliminated. They even redesigned the layout of the store to accommodate the smaller selection of brands. The variety of toys died, and was replaced with a handful of major toy lines. So now we have whole aisles dedicated specifically to wrestling figures, Marvel/DC superheroes, Japanese anime junk, Star Wars (when will this die?), Hot Wheels and Matchboxes, and that's pretty much it as far as boytoys are concerned. So any up-and-coming toy companies that want to sneak space into TRU….well, they are just not getting in at all. It truly sucks. I can't stand TRU anymore, and because of they're crappy selection, I rarely go there because it's the same ol' junk week after week.


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## DinoMike (Jan 1, 1970)

At the local Wal-Mart, I was surprised to see the Revell prepainted Iron Man 3 and Spider-Man figure kits in the model kit section. I picked up the IM3 kit, not a bad deal for $10. With a little repainting, I think it'll be a really nice model.


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## Mark McGovern (Apr 25, 1999)

At WonderFest, James Hood told me that Polar Lights was cancelling the Wicked Witch and Thor kits because of the dismal sales of Superman and Wolverine. As these two model kits were released in close chronological proximity to movies that featured the characters, and as they're representative of the two major comic book camps (DC and Marvel) one wonders what could be hurting sales?

Some people blame Internet, gaming and other electronic diversions that compete for youngsters' attention with plastic modeling. I'm not convinced that's entirely the case - didn't we have other things to do besides building models when we were kids? My personal belief is that modelers may be born or can be made - *if* they get exposed to the hobby. That's where Make 'N Take setups at model shows can truly sow the seeds of the next generation of plastic modelers.

I also agree that better advertising would help to bring more modelers, of all ages, into the fold. Now, I've been told that manufacturers don't believe that they get their bang for the buck with advertising. But I remember the thrill I got the first time I saw that Gigantic Frankenstein ad on the back of a Superman comic. Sure, I haunted toy stores looking for the latest releases anyway, but as a short little 10-year-old, I could've easily missed the Big Franky box on the upper shelf. The comic book ad ensured that didn't happen.

That was then; of late I haven't seen an ad of any sort for plastic models outside of a hobby magazine for years - and never any TV or radio spots. So the manufacturers are basically preaching to the choir with the ads they do run. How about trying to get the word out to a wider market? If somebody has crunched the numbers and determined that advertising beyond the confines of _Amazing Figure Modeler_ or the IPMS _Journal_ isn't financially sound, okay - but I don't always trust eggheads who only go by figures and computer simulations to be right.

Finally, look at WonderFest. Yes, the population this year was predominately older guys, but there were plenty of younger folks including women and children as well. I see similar demographics at the smaller IPMS shows. If these people can be brought in, surely with a little better marketing a larger audience would yield more modelers.

I'd like to think that our hobby has more appeal than those older women's aphrodisiacs that get advertised on national television in the mornings...


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

For one if sales sucked it could be because the kits are not common. I saw one Superman kit at Hobbytown. IIRC he was $45. Oddly he cost more than the Dirty Donny resin kit. Never did see Wolverine. Being we have ONE hobby shop in town if people want the kits they arent going to see them on the shelf. The same shop never got in Mars Attacks or the LIS Robot either.

Hobby Lobby used to sell some Round 2/Polar Lights figures when they opened up here 3 years ago but not any more.


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## TAY666 (Jan 8, 2000)

StyreneDude said:


> Furthermore, why don't the companies that DO produce figure kits put forth a little more effort getting them into stores?


Because they don't sell them to the stores.
The entire system has changed since the glory days we remember.
Now, everything is sold through distributors.
The distributors send their listings around to stores, and stores decide what they want to get shipped in.
The distributors have no vested interest in which items stores select, so they don't really 'pitch' anything to any of them.
Also, stores don't like to carry inventory anymore either. Why have it sitting on a shelf taking up space when they can just special order it from the distributor if someone asks for it?


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

Like I said before too THEY DONT SELL very well to the general modeling public. I sold more wood doll house kits and paint by numbers than large plastic figure kits. I could push a few out the door because I personally built them and had a lot on display in my shop and was usually up at the counter working on one. 

"What are the newest, best, figure kits you have?" said NO customer ever. People come in asking for cars, tanks, military stuff, ships, magazines, books, tools but never figures. And, I did retail hobby sales for 25 years. its the smallest niche in a niche market to begin with. 

When I closed my shop I pretty much GAVE stuff way just so I didn't have to pay to store it, or have to drag it around to swap meets etc. I have, out of a whole shop, about 8 airplane kits (mostly that I wanted to keep anyway), a couple big semi trucks (I wanted to keep) and all of the Polar Lights figures, Revell monster repops, Revell Aurora dinosaur figuers, Glencoe Navy Seal figure, Atlantis Zorro, etc. I couldn't even GIVE those away at the time.


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

Over here there's been a few programmes over the past few years by James May from Top Gear. I think they were sponsored by Hornby who own Airfix and they've had things like building a life size Spitfire in fibreglass (in model kit form) and other model programmes. I know Airfix do mainly aircraft etc but these programmes seem to have done Airfix good by giving models and kits more exposure. I seem to remember in one programme more of the kids wanted to build kits than play on the computer.

You also see a few more Airfix kits in shops now including Toys R Us. Maybe Round 2 and other companies should do something similar and including built up kits in shop displays is a must otherwise it can be hard for people to get a picture of what the built up kit looks like.


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## BobbysMonsterModels (Mar 8, 2014)

Mark McGovern said:


> I'd like to think that our hobby has more appeal than those older women's aphrodisiacs that get advertised on national television in the mornings...


LOL, hilarious isn't it? Or is it disturbing?
Not to go back to toys again (although toys and plastic models are closely related), but have you ever watched any of the cartoon channels? When I was a kid we watched commercials for SSP's, Creepy Crawler machines, Frisbee's, Lite Brite, Hot Wheels and Sizzlers. Today on cartoon channels they hardly show any commercials for toys at all. Instead these channels are littered with lawyer commercials, drug commercials, stupid gimmick commercials like "Snackies" (I hate that commercial), etc, etc. It's like we have just forgotten the greatness of childhood, and neglected to give the newest generation of kids a chance to enjoy being a kid. It's a serious shame. No wonder every time you turn around you hear some horror story on the news involving kids…..the latest being the 12 year-olds stabbing another kid. That crap never happened when I was growing up. That kind of behavior was inconceivable back then.


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

BobbysMonsterModels said:


> No wonder every time you turn around you hear some horror story on the news involving kids…..the latest being the 12 year-olds stabbing another kid. That crap never happened when I was growing up. That kind of behavior was inconceivable back then.



No but we put a shopping cart on top of a kid on the beach and piled cinder blocks on top of it so he couldnt get out as the tide came in. And that was 40 years ago...


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## Cajjunwolfman (Nov 15, 2004)

TAY666 said:


> Because they don't sell them to the stores.
> The entire system has changed since the glory days we remember.
> Now, everything is sold through distributors.
> The distributors send their listings around to stores, and stores decide what they want to get shipped in.
> ...


Agree that the Distribution system is a big problem.

Gorgo was a Grassroots situation not typical. Adults and collectors wanted these kits before they even hit the stores.

Extremely glad they produced the kit but I would question if Even the Big E from TOS was a tremendous financial success. The original allotment for orders was never filled and I still see them not selling even for tremendous discounts.


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## Zathros (Dec 21, 2000)

*Plain and simple, IMO..

The hobby ain't what it used to be..Its a bygone age...Thanks to Polar lights,and Frank ( when he puts out kits that I want) I have all the aurora kits I never dreamed I would have again, and what they didn't put out, I got on e-bay...but another point is also online sales...There used to be a guy that had a model kit/comic book shop some years back..He never should have been in the retail sales business anyway, since by his demeanor, he hated people..I went in there one last time and he was packing everything up.He said he could sit at home in his drawers in front of the computer and sell online and didn't have to pay overhead costs, or deal with customers. Not many ( if at all nowadays) neighborhood hobby shops are bringing in enough to support themselves..Its as simple as that to me...


Z *


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## BobbysMonsterModels (Mar 8, 2014)

djnick66 said:


> No but we put a shopping cart on top of a kid on the beach and piled cinder blocks on top of it so he couldnt get out as the tide came in. And that was 40 years ago...


I'm not going to touch this one.


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## markcan (Jan 28, 2013)

I had this discussion with Bill Campbell, and he thinks that in addition to the vast array of alternative entertainment kids have now, there's also a culture of instant gratification (texting, video streaming, etc.) that makes sitting down and building a model seem like a huge inconvenience. I tend to agree; it's not just modeling that has suffered, but anything involving "work," like Erector Sets, Lincoln Logs - all the things that take some actual construction to complete. Prebuilt model kits feed into that; why should a kid spend time putting something together if he can just buy it and put it on a shelf? 

For modelers, of course, that seems pointless. But we come from a time when recreational opportunities were limited, and I think there was more pride taken in actually making something with your hands. I can only hope that someday kids will tire of mass-produced stuff and return to craftsmanship. But the advent of 3D printing makes me skeptical that'll happen, so I guess it's up to us to keep the hobby going as best we can. And there's reason for hope: Wonderfest hit a new record number of model contest entries this year. So there's that.


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## apls (Dec 5, 2005)

Japan has no such troubles, hobby stores everywhere.


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## Zombie_61 (Apr 21, 2004)

StyreneDude said:


> ...I did what the manufacturers failed to do. Exposed them to the product and got them interested. This is where getting product on shelves is key. Built-up displays wouldn't hurt either, and how about some good old fashioned TV advertising.
> 
> Kids can't search out something online they don't even know exists.


Even if they know it exists, they might not know what they're looking at when they see the model kit boxes on the shelves. I've lost track of the number of times I've looked up a model on Amazon just to see what they're selling it for, and found a negative review that stated something to the effect of, "I didn't know I had to build the damn thing myself!"

I think it's great that you introduced this hobby to your friends' children, but I have to wonder how many kids these days would develop an interest in model building on their own, i.e. without an influence such as yours.


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## StyreneDude (Nov 16, 2012)

TAY666 said:


> Why have it sitting on a shelf taking up space when they can just special order it from the distributor if someone asks for it?


Because seeing it on a shelf may mean the difference between making a sale or not. How is someone supposed to special order something they don't even know exists?

Best Buy has gone with this bone-headed idea in recent years with their DVD section. They hardly carry any titles and don't stock most new releases except for 200 copies of the latest "big" title. 
I went from buying 2-3 DVD's a week at BB to ZERO, because I used to pick up whatever was on the shelf that sparked my interest...classics, etc.
I now do that at Barnes & Noble. This week I picked up the blu-ray of Jack Palance's Dracula from 1973 solely because I saw it on the shelf. I would NEVER have tried to special order it because I had no idea it was even available. So you see, Barnes & Noble made a sale because they actually STOCKED an item!


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

StyreneDude said:


> Because seeing it on a shelf may mean the difference between making a sale or not. How is someone supposed to special order something they don't even know exists?
> 
> Best Buy has gone with this bone-headed idea in recent years with their DVD section. They hardly carry any titles and don't stock most new releases except for 200 copies of the latest "big" title.
> I went from buying 2-3 DVD's a week at BB to ZERO, because I used to pick up whatever was on the shelf that sparked my interest...classics, etc.
> I now do that at Barnes & Noble. This week I picked up the blu-ray of Jack Palance's Dracula from 1973 solely because I saw it on the shelf. I would NEVER have tried to special order it because I had no idea it was even available. So you see, Barnes & Noble made a sale because they actually STOCKED an item!


Very good point. I used to dive across town to get DVDs at Best Buy all the time. Now they have more or less nothing. They lost my business for sure. The odd thing is the DVD section was usually jammed with people buying them, so I am not sure why they phased that out. We have one Barnes and Noble left and I can almost always find a DVD or Blue Ray there if I troll through the stacks of titles. 

The problem with special orders for models and figures, etc. in particular is that since there is minimal demand for them anyway, no one knows to ask about them in the first place. Since they are often the kind of kit a shop may not want to get stuck with if the buyer doesn't come in and pick it up, I would require them to pay in full up front. That can deter some buyers but it prevents the store from wasting money on a white elephant too.


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## Paper Hollywood (Nov 2, 2011)

It's funny that when I was a kid in the '60s there were plenty of small toy and hobby shops around that sold model kits, but there were no comic book stores (you bought comics at drug or five & dimes). Today every community seems to have a comic store, but hobby shops are disappearing.

It occurs to me that it would be worthwhile for the comic book shop operators to a stock a significant amount of figure and sci-fi models, since there's bound to be a market overlap. Also, it would draw in model hobbyists who might buy comics. I'm sure there are comic shop folks who do this now, but I'd like to see more of it. Help me spread the word.


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## ChrisW (Jan 1, 1970)

markcan said:


> I tend to agree; it's not just modeling that has suffered, but anything involving "work," like Erector Sets, Lincoln Logs - all the things that take some actual construction to complete. Prebuilt model kits feed into that; why should a kid spend time putting something together if he can just buy it and put it on a shelf?
> .


Actually, have you visited the LEGO section in your local WalMart, or wherever? There is a huge demand for them, from small sets to Star Wars sets that run well over $100.00. They have their own stores in the malls, tie-ins with the big franchises...heck even a blockbuster film.


_"It occurs to me that it would be worthwhile for the comic book shop operators to a stock a significant amount of figure and sci-fi models, since there's bound to be a market overlap. Also, it would draw in model hobbyists who might buy comics. I'm sure there are comic shop folks who do this now, but I'd like to see more of it. Help me spread the word."_

Most comic book stores I've been in do have model kits. But they don't seem to move anywhere as well as the pre-paints.


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## BobbysMonsterModels (Mar 8, 2014)

Paper Hollywood said:


> Today every community seems to have a comic store, but hobby shops are disappearing.


Which is ironic because comic books cost a fortune now. I gave up comic collecting in the late 1990's. To me, no comic book is worth the price you pay now. I remember when you could buy 5 comic books for $1.00 (20 cents a piece), and any kid could scrape that money up easily. And how much are they now? $3.50 a piece or something like that (haven't checked in years)? Honestly, the comic book market isn't really aimed at kids anymore. It's aimed at adults…which I guess is how they get away with jacking the price up so high. In this day and age, kids can't even afford comic books, toys, or plastic models at all.


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

I dont buy the "kids cant afford stuff" argument because every kid I know has an iPhone, xbox, iPad, laptop, etc. Older kids have $2000 rims on their car. Kids today live in the same economic world we do. When my son got an allowance it wasn't the $2 a week I got 40 years ago. And he got $20 or $25 to wash and detail the car versus $5 I got 40 years ago. 

The thing is that, for the most part, models today ARE NOT AIMED AT KIDS. They are aimed at adults. Even most of the figure and sci fi kits are not aimed at kids. Perhaps the snap together pre finished Revell Spiderman is a kids kit, but Gorgo, etc. are definitely adult model kits.


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## Paper Hollywood (Nov 2, 2011)

Oh, yea. The market for model kits is apparently the retiring baby boomers, who were kids back in the Golden Age of model kits-- the '50s, '60s and '70s. Model building is a pastime from the days before cell phones, the Internet, video games, or even movies on home video. A kid too old for green plastic soldiers pretty much had a choice of either model kits or something outside-- which kids did more then than now, for sure. These days few kids like to make things with their hands or ride bicycles or build forts in the back yard. They want to sit google-eyed playing video games or on the Internet or punching gibberish into a cell phone keyboard. The blame for that is our generation, though. The Bill Gates/Steve Jobs/etc/etc types realized ways to funnel human attention toward expensive little gadgets everyone must buy from them.

It's not just model building that's loosing a following. The woodworking craft has also lost a lot of ground, as I've noticed in discussions at the Lumberjocks forum. I think the one upside is that those of us who do enjoy making things are creating the rare collectibles of the future-- when things like models and handmade items will be even more rare.


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## Frankie Boy (Feb 28, 2002)

Paper Hollywood said:


> The market for model kits is apparently the retiring baby boomers, who were kids back in the Golden Age of model kits-- the '50s, '60s and '70s.


Bingo!


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

As a whole there is no lack of new kits or new kit companies. Like it or not sci fi and especially figure modeling are really very small niches in an otherwise big market. 

If you build armor models, in the 70s, 80s, 90s and early 00s you built Tamiya, Italeri, and later Academy and Dragon kits. Now you have Takom, Amusing Hobby, Bronco, Riich, Asuk, Zvezda, Masterbox, Miniart, IBG, Vulcan, AFV Club and probably a dozen more new companies turning out qualitiy kits.


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

SUNGOD said:


> Over here there's been a few programmes over the past few years by James May from Top Gear. I think they were sponsored by Hornby who own Airfix and they've had things like building a life size Spitfire in fibreglass (in model kit form) and other model programmes.


Now that sounds interesting.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xay8xo_james-may-s-toy-stories-ep-1-3-4_shortfilms


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## Frankie Boy (Feb 28, 2002)

djnick66 said:


> As a whole there is no lack of new kits or new kit companies. ...
> 
> If you build armor models ... Now you have ... probably a dozen more new companies turning out qualitiy kits.


I'm not into tanks, planes, or boats, really, but only figure kits. If what you're saying is true about new kits and new companies turning out such kits, are they, too, primarily aimed at the boomer market, in your opinion?


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## starduster (Feb 12, 2006)

After reading all this I came to the conclusion the partial fault for kids not being interested in model kits are the advertising companies, especially the ones that select commercials for the cartoon network. 
Like stated here this cartoon network should have toy and model kit commercials not commercials for lawyers or anything else what are these people thinking ? and the comic books ....... put advertisements for the latest models like we had in the 50's for figure kits with planes and cars and ad's from the local hobby clubs and make discounts for groups with kids so they at least can get a taste of building kits without the full expense of the kits.
 Instead of lamenting the loss of business let's get these kids motivated by the advertising companies themselves it seems the model companies are also at fault for not pushing their product hard enough. Karl


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## robiwon (Oct 20, 2006)

The model companies have to pay for advertising. I'm not sure if they leave it up to the advert company as to were adds end up or if the model company decides where to advertise. But, the more money devoted to advertising would probably cut into a production budget.


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

Frankie Boy said:


> I'm not into tanks, planes, or boats, really, but only figure kits. If what you're saying is true about new kits and new companies turning out such kits, are they, too, primarily aimed at the boomer market, in your opinion?


I worked in, managed and owned hobby shops for 25 years. Over that whole span, I would say 95% of my customers for models were adult males. And, by adult I mean adult... like age 30 and up. I would say of that group, more were older versus younger. So the 30-75 age group was much more representational of the average customer than the 18 to 30 group. 

Of the small percentage of kids that built models, most did not build sci fi type stuff either. They built airplanes or cars like most other modelers. In past decades I would say those kids were sort of the nerdy geeky book worm kids that would know about a P-38 Lightning or an A/A Willys Gasser from reading and watching old movies etc. Nowdays the kids watch shows on the Military Channel etc. The sci fi kits in the 80s (Star Wars, Star Trek) were mostly bought by people in their 30s and 40s that watched Star Trek back in the 60s or they were adult Star Wars fans. 

Most if not all the kids that build models (that I ever came across) had a father or parent figure that built models either before the kid was born, so he grew up in a model building house, or the father built models with the kid as something for the two of them to do together. I can't say I ever saw many/any kids that came in totally on their own and picked out a model over comic books, fantasy type games, etc. 

When I was a kid I could always get my mom to buy me a model if we were out shopping. That was just sort of a given. Now, I see moms/wives/women being really negative and hostile towards their kids and even spouses. This is pretty new to me as a retailer. A family comes in and the kid wants a model. The dad says hey yeah I built those as a kid too with my dad. The mother just starts screeching NO you will cut yourself with a knife NO you will make a mess all over NO you cant use paint you don't know how to do that NO NO NO. I saw also a really sad instance where a man and his family were looking at models and the guy saw one of the old Monogram 1/48 bomber kits. Now, the family was obviously fairly affluent by looking at what they wore, their jewelry, shoes, etc. I doubt a $25 model would have broken the bank. The father said hey this is what his dad (or uncle or whoever) flew in World War 2 and he wanted to build the model and give it to his dad at a bomb group reunion or something similar. The wife exploded... NO NO NO you cant do that. You can't buy that. The kids will break it and make a mess. The poor guy was crushed. Back in the day my mom and dad and even my grandparents would spring for a model. These days... not so much with modern families.


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## BobbysMonsterModels (Mar 8, 2014)

robiwon said:


> The model companies have to pay for advertising. I'm not sure if they leave it up to the advert company as to where adds end up or if the model company decides where to advertise. But, the more money devoted to advertising would probably cut into a production budget.


I work in advertising and I can tell you it's the model company that decides where their ads are going to end up being shown. The model company goes to an ad agency, they brainstorm together over ideas, the ad agency bangs the ads out, and the model company lets them know where they want the ads to go (what publications, etc), ads are created to spec depending on where they will end up, and then the ads are sent off to the publications. The model company is then billed for their allotted space in the publications by those companies. I guess the big question is…how much does Marvel or DC comics charge for a full page ad? And then you need to decide how many comic titles will run the ad on any given month. Aurora did it in the old days. The question is, can Moebius or Monarch afford to run ads in comic books? Because even if they don't draw the kids in, they will draw more adult comic book readers back into the hobby.


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## Cajjunwolfman (Nov 15, 2004)

Recently a large number of old and new Fine Scale Modeler magazines were donated to my LHS. I happened to be in the shop and we were looking at these magazines. I noticed since 1998 there had been widespread discussion and coverage about getting younger people in the hobby. There was also discussion about bring adults back and recruiting new adults. This discussion included make-n-take, Adult Building Class, etc. 

That's more than ten years, if all these incentives have not worked yet I don't think there going to.


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## J_Indy (Jan 28, 2013)

IMO teens today are too sophisticated to put any effort into just a standard out-of-box build that will end up looking no better than a pre-fab toy off the shelf (bad seams, bad details).

But - show them something along the lines of the quality of a movie prop or miniature, and it is more likely to get the "ooo" and "ahhh" factor to get them interested, especially if there is someone there to say "Want to know how to build one?"

But therein lies the problem.

1) Someone to help guide them toward assembling something of (relatively speaking) high quality. (While YouTube has plenty of good material, you have to know what to look for).
2) Someone who has the materials to save them the initial start-up cost, which can be significant (paints/airbrushes, sculpting material, electronic components and equipment, etc)

With video games and plenty of other distractions, model building can't just be a slap-dash endeavor that is expected to hold a kid's attention.

As it is, it is easier to buy the model, electronic components, paints, and the assorted material online, because no local hobby store is going to have all that under one roof anyway.

Maybe if the local hobby store also taught techniques (more of a communal hobby group thing) it would have more success. Maybe...


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

I can't help thinking companies like Round 2 are a bit unimaginative at times. I don't know whether it's feasible or not but Moebius started selling built ups. I wonder if R2 could have done the same thing with Wolverine, Superman and Thor. 

Again there's loads of action figures about so if kids could see built up versions for sale then maybe they'd go for them sometimes instead of the action figures. Also what sets these kits apart from the action figues is the *bases. * 

Wolverine had a great Sentinal head base and I think a combination of great bases and built up figures might have a chance of selling better.


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## BobbysMonsterModels (Mar 8, 2014)

J_Indy said:


> IMO teens today are too sophisticated to put any effort into just a standard out-of-box build….


You know, I started building monster models when I was 7 years-old, and I built them til I was about 11 (1974), and then I hit puberty and had no interest in models at all. Didn't build one model at all in my teens, but started building them again when I was 35. Teenagers have very short attention spans, especially boys. I think the model building phase is something that needs to start younger…at least that's the way it worked for me. When I was a teen it was all about hanging out with friends, playing in rock bands, partying, and going to concerts. You couldn't have paid me to build a model at that point in my life.


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## J_Indy (Jan 28, 2013)

BobbysMonsterModels said:


> You know, I started building monster models when I was 7 years-old, and I built them til I was about 11 (1974), and then I hit puberty and had no interest in models at all. Didn't build one model at all in my teens, but started building them again when I was 35. Teenagers have very short attention spans, especially boys. I think the model building phase is something that needs to start younger…at least that's the way it worked for me. When I was a teen it was all about hanging out with friends, playing in rock bands, partying, and going to concerts. You couldn't have paid me to build a model at that point in my life.


All of that is likely true - but it makes it even harder for kids even younger than teens.

1) Have somebody around to guide them
2) Be able to afford the materials to produce something beyond what comes in a pre-fab box. (otherwise I don't think they'd even bother)


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## BobbysMonsterModels (Mar 8, 2014)

I had a Dad that loved to build model airplanes and RC airplanes, so we were always taking trips to the hobby shop. Well, he had a little boy with him, and you can't take a little boy into a hobby shop without at least buying him something. As a little boy, I loved monster movies, so it was only natural that I gravitated toward wanting a monster model. Once I saw the box, I just had to have the kit, and building and painting it was alot of fun. Out of all my friends back then, only one other friend of mine built models, but he was into WWII airplanes, not monsters.

So for me, it wasn't about seeing ads in comic books (yes, I saw them), or having someone mentor me into the hobby (my Dad was not into monsters at all). It was the fact that I loved monsters, and was dragged into hobby stores to foster my Dad's hobby (not mine), and _my_ hobby grew from that.

How many of you out there take your kid to the hobby store with you? Just curious. I don't have kids (lucky me, LOL). But seriously, that is one way of getting a kid interested in building models. I use to love getting in the car with my Dad and driving places when I was little. He always made it worth my while (toys, records, models, etc), and we had great times……still do, and he's 83 now.

On a side note:
Back in the 1990's, my sister's little boy was really into monster movies. After he saw my Sleepy Hollow kit, he begged his Mom to let me take him to the hobby store to buy the Sleepy Hollow model, with some paints and brushes. He made a total mess of the model. Now he's in his mid-20's, and guess what? He bought the Sleepy Hollow model again online, and is back painting monsters again. It was solely his interest in monsters, especially since he loved the Sleepy Hollow movie, that got him into building kits…..and he loves looking at his uncle's monster models as well. My point being, if he had not been a monster fan, he would have never wanted the model.


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## Zombie_61 (Apr 21, 2004)

I've told this story here before, but it seems somewhat relevant at this point in this thread's life. My introduction to model building was Aurora's The Forgotten Prisoner of Castel-Maré, the "Fright'ning Lightning" version, 1969. I was 7 or 8 years old, and though I'd heard of model kits I really didn't know much about them. I was browsing the local toy store and the box art caught my eye. I grabbed it, ran to the front counter, and asked the clerk what it was. He took the time to explain the basics to me (read the instruction sheet, cut the pieces off, glue 'em together, and paint it), handed me a tube of good old Testors cement, a paint brush, three bottles of Pactra paint (black, white, and red, so I could paint the figure "like the box art"), and a bottle of Pactra paint thinner. Over the next two or three days I glue-bombed it together, slathered on the paint (black on the coat and pants, white on the shirt, red on the sash--just like the box!), and spent many subsequent nights falling asleep to the warm greenish glow of the Prisoner's skeleton staring back at me.

Now, I had no direct influences at home; as such, at least 90% of what I know about model building today was self-taught through years of trial and error. My father worked too hard to have any spare time for hobbies. My older sister had a built-up car model, but I couldn't tell you whether or not she built it herself; if she did, she didn't make any attempts to influence me to build models, and never built another as far as I know. My older brother was already married so we didn't spend much time together, but he bought me a model kit from time to time after he found out I enjoyed the hobby. So if it weren't for that clerk taking a few minutes out of his day to walk me through the basics, it's possible I would never have taken up model building as a hobby.


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## J_Indy (Jan 28, 2013)

Zombie_61 said:


> So if it weren't for that clerk taking a few minutes out of his day to walk me through the basics, it's possible I would never have taken up model building as a hobby.


This is, IMO, where one of the critical fails is with hobby stores today.

The objective of a hobby store is to move merchandise.
The objective of the hobbyist is to make an end-product whose quality he is satisfied with.

If all the store cares about is ringing the cash register, how can they distinguish themselves from an online store?

Regardless of who introduced you to modeling, or to what depth, or even if it was incidental to someone wanting to do something else - that someone was there.

How many kids today would like to have a (near) studio prop of an X-Wing or TIE fighter?

When I was a kid I wanted a big, accurate (because even as a kid I knew the AMT version sucked) TOS Enterprise.

I have the kit now. It cost me around $100. No kid is paying that kind of money for a kit in a box.

Add the electronics, paint, building equipment - forget it.

So times were simpler in the '60's and '70's. There are way more things against picking up the hobby now.


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## Zombie_61 (Apr 21, 2004)

J_Indy said:


> This is, IMO, where one of the critical fails is with hobby stores today.
> 
> The objective of a hobby store is to move merchandise.
> The objective of the hobbyist is to make an end-product whose quality he is satisfied with.
> ...


I concur; good help is hard to find regardless of which products you're trying to sell. I have two go-to hobby shops within 25 miles of home--Pegasus Hobbies (yes, _that_ Pegasus Hobbies) and Brookhurst Hobbies. For the most part, both stores are manned by people who have at least some familiarity with the products they sell and are willing to help you with your purchase(s) as much as is humanly possible. And that's why I'll drive out of my way to give them my business. There is one hobby shop that is much closer, but I've only been there once because the store was disorganized, and dealing with the customers seemed to irritate the staff--probably because they didn't appear to know much about the products they sell. And a few years ago a semi-local Hobby People store closed "due to low sales". If their employees got off of their loathesome spotty backsides once in a while and knew about something other than remote control vehicles and video games, that store might still be open.


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## BobbysMonsterModels (Mar 8, 2014)

J_Indy said:


> I have the kit now. *It cost me around $100.* No kid is paying that kind of money for a kit in a box.


And I don't care what anyone says, that has alot to do with why kids will not dive into this hobby. A hundred bucks? Seriously, how can a kid get into this hobby for that kind of money? Even if I were a parent, I would never spend $100 on a model for my kid…to watch him turn that $100 into a glue bomb. It's just way too much money. When I was 7-11 years-old, an Aurora monster model was $1.50. I got paid $2 a week allowance. I used my money to buy my models, but alot of times Mom or Dad forked out the money. And lets face it, even back in the late 1960's - early 1970's, two bucks was not alot of money. It was affordable. Buying a monster model today runs around $25, and by todays standards that's still alot of money. The cost nowadays will keep kids out of this hobby, especially when they have so many other more trendy things to buy to keep up with their friends. The economy is horrible nowadays. I'm not saying this is the only reason kids will avoid this hobby, but it's definitely a big reason to avoid it. When we were all young this hobby was aimed at kids, therefore it was made affordable. Nowadays the kit companies know their main draw is the baby-boomer generation, hence they know they can jack the prices way up, and get what they want. It's a different time now…I don't think this hobby is marketed towards kids anymore.


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## Rob P. (Jan 26, 2004)

I have to agree that cost of kits, and supplies as well, probably hurt sales to kids. I basically support my youngest sons modeling and still chip in with stuff for my eldest even though he is an adult with two jobs. (He's in college as well). That keeps us in the styrene model world for now. Which I can afford. The two things I see personally that most affect kids building is no parental or close adult family to help start them out and if they do save up that kind of money, its spent on video games, cd's, etc. before it would go to modeling. If todays kids could pick up a kit for say $10 bucks? then maybe they get into it. But at $30 to $50 (which is the average I am dealing with) not likely, unless they got a Dad like me who supports it both with teaching the skills and financing the kits and supplies. 

Rob


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## sbaxter (Jan 8, 2002)

ChrisW said:


> Actually, have you visited the LEGO section in your local WalMart, or wherever? There is a huge demand for them, from small sets to Star Wars sets that run well over $100.00. They have their own stores in the malls, tie-ins with the big franchises...heck even a blockbuster film.


And a half-dozen theme parks, with two in the US ... http://www.legoland.com

Qapal'

SSB


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## BobbysMonsterModels (Mar 8, 2014)

Rob P. said:


> I basically support my youngest sons modeling and still chip in with stuff for my eldest even though he is an adult with two jobs…unless they got a Dad like me who supports it both with teaching the skills and financing the kits and supplies.


:thumbsup:
Cheers to you, Rob. You sound like a great Dad! Hope your boys get you something nice for Father's Day this year.


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## J_Indy (Jan 28, 2013)

I guess one way I can sum it up is - when a kid is involved in building a model (or any creative endeavor for that matter), he/she is a participant in MAKING something.

That something will have features unique to the child that produced the final outcome.

For something like a video game, the child is merely a CONSUMER - a consumer of the product and the experience (thrill?) pre-written into the game. That type of gaming is ultimately a PASSIVE experience, following the outcome not much different than sitting through a movie (regardless of how many times he presses on the controller ).


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## Cajjunwolfman (Nov 15, 2004)

I conducted a survey about getting young people involved in the hobby. As part of the survey I conducted numerous one on one interviews with the parents (which were mostly single parent households). The subject of cost of the kits was discussed in detail. I was told on numerous occasions the cost of the kit was not a factor as This hobby was no more expensive than other child pastimes. The real issue was lack of follow-up. No one to teach beyond the first kit or any ongoing support.


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## TAY666 (Jan 8, 2000)

BobbysMonsterModels said:


> When we were all young this hobby was aimed at kids, therefore it was made affordable. Nowadays the kit companies know their main draw is the baby-boomer generation, hence they know they can jack the prices way up, and get what they want. It's a different time now…I don't think this hobby is marketed towards kids anymore.


I agree that cost is a factor, but I disagree with your assessment of companies jacking the prices up.
It's simple economics.

When we were young, plastic (a petroleum product) was cheap and plentiful.
And kits were everywhere and sold by the tens of thousands (if not hundreds of thousands)

Today, plastic isn't quite so cheap.
And kits don't sell nearly as well. Most of the time, they are doing very well to hit ten thousand.
The smaller the run, the higher the price. You have to cover all design, engineering, tooling costs with a lot less units.
(that is why action figures are so cheap, they sell hundreds of thousands of each)


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## BobbysMonsterModels (Mar 8, 2014)

You could be right, Tay, but then there is the other toss of the coin when it comes to kids getting into models nowadays….simply, it was a trend in our childhood, and like all trends they come and go…and often die. Monsters were a huge fad in the 1960's. They were everywhere, which is why I think monster models were huge back then.

As for action figures, they're not as cheap as they use to be. I'm a toy collector…when I first got into buying them in the late 1990's, I could go into TRU, and pick up 5 very cool, hyper-detailed McFarlane or NECA figures at $9.99 each, and buy them for $50.00. I thought it was a great deal. I bought tons of toys back then. Then the economy tanked in 2008. Ten years later (yes - only ten), the price has doubled. Today I would have to pay $100 for those same figures. Because of the ridiculous hike in prices, I have backed off toy collecting, and once in a great while will pick something up. I read an interview recently with Todd McFarlane, and he said that once the retailers set their price, they never ever go back, even if they are making gobs of profit (and can afford to drop the prices). Todd also talked about how China is wising up, and charging us more now, so much so that he said it's almost to the point where sending things to China to be produced isn't making alot of USA companies the profits they use to make. IMO, this is good. Maybe the businesses will start coming back here to produce their product.


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## J_Indy (Jan 28, 2013)

The industry has shifted to the adults who can afford the higher costs.

This is unfortunate because after looking at models again a year ago, I've taught myself (among other things) how to make 2-sided silicone molds and resin cast, how to make a simple LED flasher circuit board (for that TOS Enterprise ), how to make my own decals, etc.

There are a lot of interesting skills that can be explored with model making these days that weren't available back in the 60's and 70's, and make the hobby's reaches even more expansive than just gluing styrene together.

Even CAD/CAM for 3D printing to build your own models is here now.

BTW - for the adults with the $$$$ - the figure collectables are excellent these days - and REALLY expensive.

http://www.sideshowtoy.com/


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## BobbysMonsterModels (Mar 8, 2014)

Yep, I use to collect Sideshow stuff before the prices went through the ceiling. I have all of their plastic Universal monsters from the late 1990's.


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

I still dont know why people insist that the industry focus on kids and snap together stuff. I am much happier with the new adult quality kits... photo etch, more small parts etc. Kid stuff is what the hobby evolved away from in the first place.


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

djnick66 said:


> I still dont know why people insist that the industry focus on kids and snap together stuff. I am much happier with the new adult quality kits... photo etch, more small parts etc. Kid stuff is what the hobby evolved away from in the first place.








I'm not sure the industry focusing on kids is a good idea either. In fact it's probably a bad idea. By all means try and get kids involved and maybe the manufacturers should always have a few simple kits aimed at kids but model building has evolved over the years to older modellers anyway.


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

Yeah in its infancy it was a kids passtime and not something adults would really do. Revells first "kits" were actually some of their pre finished plastic toy cars sold unassembled in a box as a kit. 

I figure kids will be drawn to whatever it is they are drawn to. I really dont care if they build models or not as the industry is not really aimed at them and most of the products released are not intended for kids anyway.


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## Paper Hollywood (Nov 2, 2011)

Well, I think there are aspects of the whole model experience that are basically human in appeal. People have always had a fascination with intricate miniatures. As a sci-fi buff, I always looked forward to the opportunity to own a three dimensional vision of spacecraft or submarine or creature I'd seen in a movie, for instance. I can't see that sort of interest going away, though fewer folks may have the desire to assemble the things themselves. I'm sure eventually miniature enthusiasts will just download the latest design and print to their 3D printer-- fully assembled and properly colored.

But just as there are still still people who enjoy hand tooling wood or metal, there will always be those who wish to hand build their own models.


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## Frankie Boy (Feb 28, 2002)

BobbysMonsterModels said:


> ... when it comes to kids getting into models nowadays….simply, it was a trend in our childhood, and like all trends they come and go…and often die. Monsters were a huge fad in the 1960's. They were everywhere, which is why I think monster models were huge back then.


Bingo, again.


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## Frankie Boy (Feb 28, 2002)

SUNGOD said:


> I'm not sure the industry focusing on kids is a good idea either. In fact it's probably a bad idea.


How exactly is the industry focussing on kids these days? I don’t really see it in terms of advertising in, say, comic books (which kids don’t read these days either) or Saturday morning cartoons, etc. And I don’t see it on any on-line, pop-up type advertising while surfing the net that might grab kids’ attention that way. So where exactly is the focus on kids being directed?


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

Frankie Boy said:


> How exactly is the industry focussing on kids these days? I don’t really see it in terms of advertising in, say, comic books (which kids don’t read these days either) or Saturday morning cartoons, etc. And I don’t see it on any on-line, pop-up type advertising while surfing the net that might grab kids’ attention that way. So where exactly is the focus on kids being directed?














I'm not saying it is.....but...........are companies like R2 expecting instant healthy sales of kits like Wolverine and that loads of kids would buy them (hence their cancellation of Thor because of disappointing Wolverine sales)? 

If they are they're going to be disappointed as it's mainly us older gits making these kits now. Also it's fairly obvious that kids are the main target of Revells new Star Wars kits so companies are still obviously aiming some kits at kids. It's a good thing that some kits are aimed at kids to get new people into the hobby but their interest often dips in the teen years and comes back in their 20s or even 30s.


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## Frankie Boy (Feb 28, 2002)

SUNGOD said:


> I'm not saying it is ... it's fairly obvious that kids are the main target of Revells new Star Wars kits so companies are still obviously aiming some kits at kids.


The first part sounds like a contradiction of your original statement (where you said "I'm not sure the industry focusing on kids is a good idea either. In fact it's probably a bad idea". Doesn't that statement presuppose that the industry_ is _focussing on kids?). And then the second part (in the above quote) then seems to turn around on a contradiction again, apparently _supporting_ what I understood to be your original claim.

Anyway ... again I ask, how is the industry focussing on kids? What's the nature, or manifestation, of this supposed focus? If you're pointing to Revell's Star Wars models — Snap-tites, which require neither glue nor paint — how does that constitute industry focus? It seems to me that that's almost an after-thought.


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

Seems like half of the posts here are about trying to get kids into the hobby, which I don't see as necessary without restructuring the hobby itself (a step backwards). 

There are companies and kits obviously aimed at the kiddie market. Airfix has a series of Lego type airplane kits. Revell has snap together, pre painted kits. Zvezda from Russia has kits based on the Cars and Planes movies. Obviously those are all aimed at younger modelers.


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

Frankie Boy said:


> The first part sounds like a contradiction of your original statement (where you said "I'm not sure the industry focusing on kids is a good idea either. In fact it's probably a bad idea". Doesn't that statement presuppose that the industry_ is _focussing on kids?). And then the second part (in the above quote) then seems to turn around on a contradiction again, apparently _supporting_ what I understood to be your original claim.
> 
> Anyway ... again I ask, how is the industry focussing on kids? What's the nature, or manifestation, of this supposed focus? If you're pointing to Revell's Star Wars models — Snap-tites, which require neither glue nor paint — how does that constitute industry focus? It seems to me that that's almost an after-thought.





I was speaking more of it being a 'possibility' than presupposing the industry's focusing on kids

No the industry obviously isn't overwhelmingly focusing on kids but if you read my above sentence you'll see I was speaking about it in relation to what's happened with R2's Marvel kits. 

I.E were they expecting loads of kids to go and buy them? I know R2 are in the business to make money and it's great they at least tried to do Marvel characters in styrene (well one new tool anyway) but was it a case of expecting good results too soon by trying to aim for the mass market instead of older modellers who would probably be the main customers of styrene Marvel figures.


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## Zombie_61 (Apr 21, 2004)

Here's something that hasn't been directly addressed yet: Today's kids are tomorrow's old farts.

Many of us started building models when we were in our pre-teen years, and have continued to pursue the hobby ever since. As such, we've helped to fund the companies that produced the model kits we've purchased as we've grown older; in my case that's been a little more than 40 years...so far.

As we continue to age, we as a collective group will begin to die off. It's inevitable. So if Moebius, Revell, Round 2, and so on, want to continue their existence after that happens and still be viable 40+ years from now, it's in their best interests to get "today's kids" interested in the hobby sooner rather than later. Otherwise the hobby, and their businesses/livelihoods, will die off with us.

Now, I'm not saying their _entire_ focus should shift from producing "adult" kits to producing "kid friendly" kits, but they need to do _something_ that will draw youngsters into the hobby. In the process, we "old farts" might just get some fun kits as well.


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## BobbysMonsterModels (Mar 8, 2014)

Zombie_61 said:


> Now, I'm not saying their _entire_ focus should shift from producing "adult" kits to producing "kid friendly" kits, but they need to do _something_ that will draw youngsters into the hobby. In the process, we "old farts" might just get some fun kits as well.


Totally agree! The industry doesn't need to change what kits it is producing, it only needs to somehow draw kids in again. Otherwise, this hobby will eventually at some point be a thing of the past. Let's face it, most of us here are re-building the same kits we built as kids. I mean, I'm 50 now, and the Aurora monsters are still as appealing to me as a 50 year-old, as they were to me when I was 7. There are many kits that can be marketed towards kids nowadays, that will be just as appealing to us baby-boomers. A cool monster model is a cool monster model, period. Kids love monsters. Moebius and Monarch could take the odd chance of somehow developing marketing towards kids. The guys that run these companies, were model builders as youngsters…which is why they started these new companies. Maybe because of that, the focus is still on our generation. Then again maybe it's the pricing. I do know there are kids out there who still read and collect comics. Advertising in comics could be a way in as far as recruiting younger kids into the hobby, could it not? The only obstacle I see would be the price…the parents would have to pick up the tab. But there are birthday and Christmas presents! Kids do have a funny way of getting the things they want…somehow.


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## Zombie_61 (Apr 21, 2004)

BobbysMonsterModels said:


> ...The only obstacle I see would be the price…the parents would have to pick up the tab. But there are birthday and Christmas presents! Kids do have a funny way of getting the things they want…somehow.


True, but the thought occurred to me the other day that parents are spending as much (if not more) on all of the electronic toys they buy for their children--cell phones, iPads/iPods, laptops, video game consoles and the games themselves, etc.--as they might spend on supporting a hobby that fosters and nurtures their creativity. By comparison $100 or so for a couple of kits and the initial supplies needed to build them is a bargain!


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## TAY666 (Jan 8, 2000)

But the stuff they do buy for kids now, are things that will keep the kid occupied without the parent having to add too much of their own time to the mix.

This isn't the 60's or 70's anymore with one parent at home all day to take care of the kids and the housework. When time wasn't quite as precious as it is now.
Now, with both parents working, or the only parent working, time for activities with the offspring aren't nearly as plentiful.

Let's face it. Model building for kids isn't nearly as viable these days as it was in our day.
There are lots of other options for them (and not just the usual complaints about video games and social networking. There are lots of creative outlets for kids now that let them do all kinds of hands-on creative type stuff)
And it's pretty expensive now as well.

That, in and of itself won't sound the dell knell for this hobby.
Plenty of people have gotten into kits later in life, without ever building one as a kid.
Gaming minis are a huge gateway to kits. As are prepainted statues. 
I've known people who started painting kits, because they didn't like how the prepaints looked. They started repainting those. Then found garage kits because they are cheap by comparison.
There are lots of ways that lots of people continue to find this hobby. And they will continue to find it as long as there are cool subjects out there to be built and painted.


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## BobbysMonsterModels (Mar 8, 2014)

Agreed, but advertising is a powerful tool (albeit expensive also). I would think if Monarch and Moebius advertised in Marvel or DC comics it might get more people interested…kids and adults alike. I work in advertising so I know that advertising campaigns help, but so far the only place I have seen either of the above mentioned companies advertise is in issues of AFM. Maybe they can't afford more advertising, maybe the cost of producing kits is taking away from that, but increasing awareness of their product is the key to more financial success.


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## TAY666 (Jan 8, 2000)

Do you really think that many kids still buy comics?
I'm pretty sure the comics demographic is pretty similar to the model demographics.
And they pay little attention to the ads. Not like we did back in the day.
Heck, most of the younger people I know that do still get comics, usually wait until the graphic novel comes out so they can get a big chunk of story, all at once, with no ads.
Kind of like buying season sets of DVDs instead of actually watching a show on TV.

Companies would be better off doing a viral marketing campaign if they want to get younger people involved.
But I still don't think the return on investment is there.


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## gmaiocco (Nov 8, 2007)

In Altoona, Pa. there's an independent store called Unkel Joe's Woodshed that carries a wide variety of plastic models, including the Moebus line of kits. The person in charge of ordering kits approached me once while I was looking over the sea of car kits and asked if there was anything he could order for me. I asked if he could order the Pegasus Nautilus kit and he did, at a very good price as well! When it came in we started discussing figure kits and he welcomed my input on monster kits. He now stocks the Moebus kits and they are selling well. Even though the large chain stores don't care about the horror genre the smaller, independent stores welcome input from customers and will support us if we support them.


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## BobbysMonsterModels (Mar 8, 2014)

TAY666 said:


> Do you really think that many kids still buy comics?


Well, I'm not sure, as I don't have kids, and haven't been in a comic book shop since around 1990. I guess I was just hoping kids were still kids. Seems like they've mutated into something else nowadays, and maybe our generation never stopped being kids at heart.


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

Toys R Us actually sells comic books although half the people that shop there are adult collector types. Back in the day I got comics at places like 7/11 or other Kwiki Mart type places, as well as used trade in shops. There is one somewhat decent comic shop where I live but they carry strictly comics and a few pre painted figures but no models and no horror or sci fi items per se


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## spock62 (Aug 13, 2003)

Sorry, but most of today's kids are just not interested. Their "hobby" is smartphones, video games, social media, etc. They, for the most part, have no interest in building and painting something that just sits on the shelf and collects dust.

For example, a few years back a guy I worked with mentioned that his kid was into cars. I suggested introducing model making to his boy. He liked the idea and I ended up giving him, from my collection, 4 car kits (2 snap together and 2 glue) to give to his kid. Next day he told me the kid was excited to build the kits. A few days pass and I heard nothing. Then, one day, the guy tells me that he had gone to the hobby shop and purchased glue and paint. When he picked up his kid from school that day, he showed him the supplies. The kids reaction? He told his father he doesn't like to make things and that was the end of that. My co-worker wasn't happy to hear that! As far as I know, those 4 kits are in a closet collecting dust! 

On the other side of the coin, a year or so ago I was at a local hobby shop and saw a kid with his father. The kid was checking out the WWII fighters and said excitedly to his father, "That's the plane the Japs flew!". The father, realizing I heard what his kid said, said to him; "Uh, that's Japanese son.". The guy told me his kid watches History Channel alot. So, the kid isn't PC, but at least he's into model making!


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## harristotle (Aug 7, 2008)

I've been wanting to dive into this thread for a while now and finally got the time. I like to think that I bring a bit of a unique perspective as one of the younger members around here, at 25 (and I've been a member of HT since 08 I think). I'll start with how I ended up in this hobby. My Dad built A LOT of models when he was a kid, but as an adult any of his spare time was spent with the family or honey-do lists so he never got back into models. I had a few ill-fated military kits with a tiny bit of direction from my Dad when he could spare it. Mostly it was my Mom trying, bless her heart, to help me with them only to have my Dad say I hadn't done it right and I needed to go back and do it right. Well I drifted away from models until I was in middle school and started modifying hotwheels cars. My first one was done with out of the bottle testors paint and a toothpick. It turned out surprisingly good and I was hooked. When I started breaking my Dad's drill bits he gave me one of my favorite Christmas presents I've ever received, my beloved dremel tool (still the one I use, can't bring myself to upgrade). I started dabbling in model cars, especially model engines. It was around here that I found hobbytalk, while I was at college. Building full scale kits wasn't feasible living in the dorms and being the perfectionist I am I just stuck to car engines. I saw the sci-fi builds and just marveled at them wishing I could do the same. Eventually, I bit the bullet, taught myself LED lighting, bought an airbrush and finally gotten into the sci-fi realm. 

Now I saw all that to make a few points. I saw models at the hobby store, but likely would have never touched one if it weren't for the tiniest nudge I got from my Dad. I wouldn't even know they existed if it weren't for my Dad or wandering the aisles of Michael's while my Mom shopped. The initial start-ups such as basic how to's or paints and tools (dremel especially) wouldn't have been possible if it weren't for my Dad having them on hand or buying them for me. It wasn't until I had a well-paying job to finance the extra tools and details stuff that I was able to go the full distance with a model. This hobby isn't cheap and take a decent time investment if people (kids or adults) want a great looking final product. My Enterprise B that I'm working on now will probably have in the neighborhood of $150 invested into it when I'm done and that's for a 6" toy as my wife would refer to it. If it weren't for this website I can safely say I would have never stayed in the hobby as seriously as I am now. It may have continued as just a casual fad, but who knows. You guys here are what have helped me learn and grow to where I'm at now. 

Earlier in the thread it was mentioned that advertising would take away from the money available for new product development. If that's true, then they aren't doing it right. Advertising is supposed to generate more revenue. What are the model companies doing to advertise? Next to nothing! The only ads I see are in model kits I've already bought. There is no education for this hobby unless someone pulls you into it and you find a strong support group such as hobbytalk. 

The target audience of the model industry should not be adults or kids, it should be both! As Zombie said, the kids now are the old guys of the future. If the model companies continue to target one specific group of people, the hobby will likely die a very quick death in just a few decades. The industry needs to be constantly looking for new ways to bring people into the hobby young and old. What have they been doing to bring new groups into the hobby? How many people in my generation do you think have a deep connection with something like the 1/350 TOS Enterprise. People in my age group who enjoy the older sci-fi stuff are few and far between. What kind of model support does the recent sci-fi genre receive? The only JJ-Prise available is Revell of Germany or garage resin kits. Even Star Trek Voyager is limited in commercial offerings. Star Trek Voyager is my generations Star Trek! If those products aren't selling, what did you the model company do to advertise the product and bring new people into the hobby? 

The dependence of our culture on electronics and instant gratification have certainly been a factor in the decline of our hobby. I think there is a rising opportunity at hand now though. As people have begun to recognize this loss of reality a growing demand for doing things yourself has begun to spring up. Look at sites like pinterest. That website is filled with tons of do-it-yourself stuff that has gained a lot of traction. People are again placing value on the results of a home project. Who's to say the model vs replica market won't experience the same type of revival. 

Price is an aspect that has been mentioned many times throughout the thread. There are many aspects of economics at play here. Inflation plays a big part from when most of the members here were kids, but economies of scale is also another big one. Producing less kits means they are going to cost more as the development and licensing costs have to be spread over less units. The other big factor is licensing. Studios can have massive costs for the rights to their material. So as licensing gets more expensive and difficult, scope of material gets more limited, scale of production decreases, and product advertisement remains non-existent, I ask you, where do you think our beloved hobby is headed?


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## robn1 (Nov 17, 2012)

Odd how the coworker's son went from "excited to build" to "doesn't like to make things" in just a few days. I think maybe he was excited, but he mentioned the models to has friends and got teased. 

I had similar experiences, I just didn't let it get to me. I was into models as long as I can remember, but I had very few friends who shared the hobby. I couldn't even get them to come and see something I just built, they just weren't interested. They were into the same shows and movies I was, but they weren't into collecting or building anything. They liked to watch stuff and talk about it, so did I, but the models and other collectibles gave it an extra dimension that my friends didn't get.

My involvement in the hobby, and my friends' lack of same, dates back to the late 60s. So the kids' apathy is not such a recent thing.

I would like to see more effort to get kids involved. Sure some of them may take it up as they grow older, but they would be more likely to if they are at least exposed to it at an earlier age.


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

I think what we must remember too is most people don't like building models. You say you build models to most people and they'll look at you surprised. One person said to me that it was his idea of hell trying to stick fiddly pieces of plastic together.


I remember too that I hardly ever finished models when I was young. They'd usually turn out a disaster and unfinished and it was only in later years I developed the skills, knowhow and incentive to finish them. Even now I've got more than a few unfinished models. Building models can be really rewarding but very frustrating at times too and most people can't be bothered with that.

I overheard some guys in a model shop near me (now sadly closed) talking about the Sleepy Hollow kit from Polar Lights which was coming out a good few years back. One said he was going to get it and the other 2 said they couldn't be bothered with the "hassle" of sticking it together and painting it and they were going to wait for some action figures.

This is why I think model companies should always sell a mixture of built kits to the wider public and kits for those who want to build themselves........even though that presents the problem of labour costs. A lot of people would like built up kits of their favourite subjects but they don't want to build them.


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## BobbysMonsterModels (Mar 8, 2014)

SUNGOD said:


> You say you build models to most people and they'll look at you surprised.


Or immediately assume you're a closet nerd/geek, which I think is kinda fun.



SUNGOD said:


> Building models can be really rewarding but very frustrating at times too…


Amen to that, brother.



SUNGOD said:


> ...the Sleepy Hollow kit from Polar Lights which was coming out a good few years back. One said he was going to get it and the other 2 said they couldn't be bothered with the "hassle" of sticking it together and painting it and they were going to wait for some action figures.


I am guilty of buying the SH model and all the accompanying action figures. McFarlane Toys put them out and they are awesome toys!!!!! Here is McFarlane's Headless Horseman:


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## FLKitbuilder (Apr 10, 2011)

Model making, is was and ever shall be a niche hobby. It takes a person with a lot of creative juices and patience to build a model. Any model. Unless they have someone to introduce them to the hobby, a father or more likely, a grandfather, today's kids are not going to get into it. And if they are the very active, sports oriented type, they couldn't care less. And as a few have already said, their attention is divided amongst video games, movies, tv, online RPG's, mobile computing and who knows what else. 
Not to mention, girls. No, this genre will die out eventually. Technology will kill it off. At least the figure kit genre. Model car building might survive and probably the military models because there are still a lot of adults, younger and older who participate in those two areas. 
On the other hand, if fathers and grandfathers take the time to interest their kids, grandkids, in the hobby, there's a chance the hobby could survive. After all, there will always be nerds.


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## MadCap Romanian (Oct 29, 2005)

Same ol' talk again? Boy...nothing changes on this forum, does it? 

If you want this new generation of cell phone, I-pod toting, internet loving, kids to build models, then YOU have to lead the way by hosting "Build-a-thons" in your local community. Advertise them at the kid's schools (Usually free, but might involve some special requirements), the local newspaper, AND through the internet. 

Find out how much a community hall costs to rent for a day or a weekend and what costs are involved in hosting such an event.

Don't rely on the Wal-Marts and Targets to get kids interested in model building. They don't have a clue as to what hobby stuff they have or even why they have it! Talk to the local Hobby Shops and the "people in the know" or try out the manufacturers like Airfix and Revell that offer these "Build a Model" programs.

Get the Revell Make-and-take program and have at it! You may not get a lot of kids involved, but each new face could spark the next generation of builder. 

Remember that model kits teach kids patience, and that's a great way to "sell" the kid's parents on the idea of model building.

If you guys are REALLY enthusiastic about building your models and feel that the youth have nothing or that your hobby is going to die out with you, then why are you not doing something to correct that "problem"? How do you expect kids to like something they have no exposure to? Show them how to build and you secure the next hobby generation. Stick your head in the sand, and it will die out!

Trevor Ursulescu
Monster Hobbies.


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## Frankie Boy (Feb 28, 2002)

MadCap Romanian said:


> If you guys are REALLY enthusiastic about building your models and feel that the youth have nothing or that your hobby is going to die out with you, then why are you not doing something to correct that "problem"?


Who said it's a problem? It is what it is. All things have a beginning, middle and end. The only thing that doesn't change is change itself.


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

Lots of things have died out and lots of new things have come around. 

While I am not a fan of a lot of pre finished stuff, for a long time if you wanted a replica of XYZ you had to make it yourself. Back in the day people carved things from wood. Wood kits made it easier, and then plastic kits replaced wood. Having a replica built from a plastic kit was much easier. Now you can get a pre finished replica. The end result is the same, if a display piece is your intention.


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## deadmanincfan (Mar 11, 2008)

I was in the LHS the other day picking up some Plastruct when I saw sitting on a shelf a series of snap-together kits by Zvezda from the movie CARS and thought, "What a great was to introduce my grandson to the hobby!" Very simple kits, true, but he's only 5 and they're characters he likes, so if it gets him involved in the hobby, I'll buy the whole series for him.


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

deadmanincfan said:


> I was in the LHS the other day picking up some Plastruct when I saw sitting on a shelf a series of snap-together kits by Zvezda from the movie CARS and thought, "What a great was to introduce my grandson to the hobby!" Very simple kits, true, but he's only 5 and they're characters he likes, so if it gets him involved in the hobby, I'll buy the whole series for him.


They do the "planes" characters too.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

That sounds like WAY too much work, Trevor!
When am I gonna have time to build models?

Also... I hate kids!


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## maximus92 (Jan 28, 2013)

Been awhile since I posted here.

I built models when I was a child in the early to mid eighties, when we still didn't have near the distractions of today, save for a few more channels and video games. My interest waned, and I moved on. I've recently returned to the hobby more for theraputic reasons, than anything. Slows down the hussel and bussel of life. I feel when these children age they may look at a shelf and try one out.

As far as stores offering models outside of model shops, there are a few, it's just stores that kids wouldn't be caught dead in. Hobby Lobby, Michael's, AC Moore to name a few. And the last time I was in Hobby Lobby there were military figures there. Some of the best deals are there, though. Whenever my wife gets a 50% off coupon, it's off to whichever store to get a new model. Currently waiting for the ever so rare 50% from Hobby Lobby to get the B-29.


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

Unless it makes a huge difference go to the HL web site and print off a 40% coupon. Better than nothing...


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

BobbysMonsterModels said:


> Or immediately assume you're a closet nerd/geek, which I think is kinda fun.
> 
> 
> Amen to that, brother.
> ...









You're not wrong about the closet nerd/geek thing though I find the reaction's more negative than fun. 

Nice Horeseman but wasn't there a big problem with vinyl degradation on that?


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## BobbysMonsterModels (Mar 8, 2014)

SUNGOD said:


> You're not wrong about the closet nerd/geek thing though I find the reaction's more negative than fun.
> 
> Nice Horeseman but wasn't there a big problem with vinyl degradation on that?


LOL, I'm 50 years-old now, if someone wants to think my hobby is nerdy/geeky, it doesn't bother me at all…to each his own. At this point in my life, I could care less what other people think. I'm over it. I pride myself on my eccentricities. They are what make me different from everyone else who wishes to conform.
:hat:

As far as McFarlane's horseman, you might be right, I can't remember. I never took any of my TMP Sleepy Hollow toys out of their boxes.


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## fernieo (Mar 22, 2000)

SUNGOD said:


> You're not wrong about the closet nerd/geek thing though I find the reaction's more negative than fun.
> 
> Nice Horeseman but wasn't there a big problem with vinyl degradation on that?


Had mine on the shelf,when I picked it up the legs fell apart.


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## Frankie Boy (Feb 28, 2002)

BobbysMonsterModels said:


> ... I could care less what other people think.


Actually, it's I _couldn't_ care less. But I totally agree with the sentiment ... as well as the eccentricities part. :thumbsup:


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## BobbysMonsterModels (Mar 8, 2014)

Frankie Boy said:


> Actually, it's I _couldn't_ care less.


I stand corrected, and I _couldn't_ care less.

:freak:


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

I had a disappointing discussion with the owner of my local Hobbytown, which is also the ONLY hobby shop of any kind in the entire county...

The plastic section here is just BAD. He gets some new car kits but weird ones and in numbers like 12. There are a few new Revell planes but nothing special. There are no armor or figure military kits. Sci fi stuff is now really only the old AMT Star Trek stuff but again its a weird selection - no Enterprise kits but 12 Romulan Bird of Preys. A friend of mine and I who are both modelers asked what was up. The owner is really just ignorant and unknowledgable. First we asked why no tanks. He said he couldn't find any they didn't make any any more... Thats BS. Then he said well they are expensive. I said so are the RC trucks you have back there for $800 each. So a $45 tank isn't that much. And the two of us buy and build tank models so thats money you aren't getting. Then he said Hobby Lobby (right next door) was cutting into his kit business. We said hardly, they dont sell military kits. They have mostly cars but a different selection than you have. After a bit he finally just said it... he doesn't care about kits. He doesn't know anything about them. He can't make them work in his shop and he wants to focus on RC.

What is really sad is that I have 25 years hobby retail experience and would gladly work PT at the store to get the plastic section into shape. Instead he hires teen agers who know nothing about anything and they turn over about once a month... Sad.


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## Frankie Boy (Feb 28, 2002)

djnick66 said:


> What is really sad is that I have 25 years hobby retail experience and would gladly work PT at the store to get the plastic section into shape. Instead he hires teen agers who know nothing about anything and they turn over about once a month.


Did you put that offer to him?


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

Frankie Boy said:


> Did you put that offer to him?


Yes I have talked to him several times and to a couple of his long time employees that I have known for years (they used to be customers of mine). The local model club has also made that suggestion. I figured he might think it would cost too much to hire me but I made it known I am more than happy to work at their starting pay level and part time. The owner and I get along and all so I don't know... At least they do special orders and get stuff in quickly that way if you ask. 

I sense the guy doesn't like to take suggestions from anyone and, financially, may have some obligation to hire family or family friends. There is one old guy there (wife's dad?) who should NOT be in a retail business. He is surly, grumpy, not knowledgeable and just seems to be there as a favor to someone who puts money into the franchise.


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## BobbysMonsterModels (Mar 8, 2014)

djnick66 said:


> There is one old guy there (wife's dad?) who should NOT be in a retail business. He is surly, grumpy, not knowledgeable and just seems to be there as a favor to someone who puts money into the franchise.


I think every hobby store I've ever been in has one of these types. Maybe it's a prerequisite for working at a LHS. Not only is he surly and grumpy, but he'll overcharge you if you're not paying attention, LOL.


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## terryr (Feb 11, 2001)

I noticed Sears doesn't have a paint department anymore. They also used to stock every Craftsman tool made and gave free warranty replacements. Gone.

Radio Shack used to have 1000s of electronic parts. Gone.

People don't do actual work anymore, either as a job or a hobby. Pretend work in computers is taking over. Actually using your hands is so 'blue collar'. Just buy everything. Pay someone to do it for you. Get a new one.
People brag about how much it cost, not how they made it themselves.


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## finaprint (Jan 29, 2006)

I'd have to be blue even to the blood then. I fix everything on/in the house and cars, having never paid for anything ever. Build own computers and can fix many of the electronics as well as car automatic transmissions controlled by PCM. Ran huge newspaper printing presses for 35 years as head pressman 95% of the time. 

I LOATHE paying for something I can tear apart to fix at 1/10th the price, I even rebuild like motor mounts and tensioner assemblies on cars among hundreds of other things. Just did a tensioner yesterday for total of $5 in parts and will work longer than the ones I buy at the parts store ($50-$65) like the alternators I rebuild too. Last one? Thirty cents maybe for a solder joint and been running now for years. Instead of a $200+ dollar new alternator that will fail in as little as a week. 

In short, I brag about how LITTLE it costs as compared to those who give away weeks worth of pay at a time. That's pretty lame to me...........R&Ring a Ford Focus fuel pump today, I'll fix it for a planned $50 in parts, a good $800 job there. Never get paid better per hour in my life and I used to make $30/hr. back in the day. I can easily touch up to $200/hr. working on the cars sometimes. 

I attribute all that curiosity in how things work to the skills I nurtured on plastic model kits in the '60s, I was crazy about ones with action features that worked even if they weren't quite accurate. That and the crazy amount of reading I did set me up for all that repair with no formal training at all. 

I'm one of the ones the US has turned its' shoulder on because over 50 years old now. No one will hire me now except at pay so low it is an insult. I get that back with a vengeance though, I have pretty much checked out of paying the bucks it takes to 'keep things in homeostasis' in the average American middle age home. You ignore me, I ignore you and all your companies...........except for the newest plastic model releases of course. I still owe them guys plenty for the training courses they gave me............


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

Our Radio Shack has all the bits and parts but instead of being in bags on the wall they are in pull out drawers. They have tiny electric motors too. 

In a related vein, I used to go to Best Buy for DVDs. They had billions of them. BB had an actual sci fi section and a horror section, plus a big section of Japanese stuff. And, the DVD section of the store was always JAMMED. You had to nudge your way into the shelves to look for stuff. BB got in new items all the time and they sold tons. Then, I go back to BB again one day and BOOM the DVD section was 1/5 the original size and they have less than even Wal Mart. Now they have a table set up there with some guy from the local cable company hawking cable TV packages. I don't even go to BB any more now. In the past, I probably dropped $30 - $60 on DVDs fairly regularly. Now I have not been in there for a year or more.


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

Radio Shack does still sell those 1000's of parts, just not in stores. You can ask to see the Commercial Catalog and order them to be picked up at the store.
Best Buy is a very big disappointment now- I used to get PC Games and DVD's there all the time. Now it is half a shelf of games and the DVD section is mostly gone. They sold their floor space to Apple so that ate the computer section. No parts either, jut accessories and Laptops there.
People lament how everything has gone over to Amazon, NewEgg, etc..., but that is the only place I can even find what I am looking for these days. 

My LHS still stocks new release Model Kits and I buy from him as much as possible, I consider myself lucky to have one still in business. There used to be seven but there eitehr folded up their tents and moved out of town, switched to remote cars or just plain disappeared.


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## starduster (Feb 12, 2006)

finaprint said:


> I'd have to be blue even to the blood then. I fix everything on/in the house and cars, having never paid for anything ever. Build own computers and can fix many of the electronics as well as car automatic transmissions controlled by PCM. Ran huge newspaper printing presses for 35 years as head pressman 95% of the time.
> 
> I LOATHE paying for something I can tear apart to fix at 1/10th the price, I even rebuild like motor mounts and tensioner assemblies on cars among hundreds of other things. Just did a tensioner yesterday for total of $5 in parts and will work longer than the ones I buy at the parts store ($50-$65) like the alternators I rebuild too. Last one? Thirty cents maybe for a solder joint and been running now for years. Instead of a $200+ dollar new alternator that will fail in as little as a week.
> 
> ...


 I fully agree with your comments in 1959 after graduating grade school I enrolled in George Westinghouse Vocational & Technical High School in Brooklyn N.Y. which had standard studies in the morning but after lunch the fun began for the first few months was known as exploratory schedule and had a brief exposure to classes like watch repair, printing with the old style type setting, plumbing class, mechanical drafting, and the ones I chose were motor rewinding and electrical installation and electronics. these classes gave us students hands on instruction as this was my chosen career where I after graduation was employed in Rockefeller Center in N.Y.C. as a building engineer and have been in this field for years.
A few years ago I googled my high school and found the new building we moved into that was finished in 1962 had been demolished and replaced with another building which now teaches computer technologies, here was a school that gave students the ability to repair and instal electrical equipment and do the work that is required today for everyone who has standard appliances or homes that require upgrades, instead of teaching students how to use their hands to repair things it is forcing people to throw away items and buy all new .... "throw away society" vocational schools are today needed more than ever before, for a job like I had in Rockefeller Center where I just about walked in from the street today you couldn't get past the door unless you were a college graduate which is a crock, anyone with hands on training could do the work using computer energy management control systems is a walk in the park 1992 I trained off the street people to operate our computer control fan systems in a bank building in Portland Ore. 
If there were more vocational schools these unemployed people could be learning new trades instead of being rejected by these nose in the air companies, who only want college grads it's a big game hurting people. Karl


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