# Moonbus Upgrade



## miniature sun

With my Viper build virtually finished I'm keen to get another project done before I return to the Flying Sub as I've had an idea involving the sub diorama that will take a little working out....

So I'm ready to tackle my Moebius Moonbus. I'm intending to build this one along the lines of the Viper....largely straight out of the box aside from adding the two ParaGrafix detail sets, repositioning the forward bulkheads and adding lighting.....
The actual kit is moulded to a high standard by Moebius with lots of really nice detail...I'm aware that they have tweaked some of the parts of the original but since I never had the Aurora kit I'm in the dark as to what's changed.










The etched set is to Paul's usual standard and has some very fine detail...










The resin set includes replacement jet nozzles, a complete rear wall detailed inside and out, and inserts to improve the thrusters mounted in the pods to the rear of the cockpit....










There's a little surgery to be carried out on the kit parts before the resin can be fitted, however templates for this are supplied....










I'll probably build this a little out of sequence to start as I'm waiting for some EL sheet to arrive to light up the ceiling....


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## miniature sun

Started work as per the kit instructions by attaching the cabin floor to the lower hull. There are three supports that are added under the floor to stiffen the assembly. There is a fourth locating groove to the rear of the cockpit but there is no support supplied. I simply added a 4mm strip of sheet styrene here.
The instructions in the resin upgrade set direct you to remove 5mm from the rear end of the parts that join to each side of the floor moulding. I did this only to find that it left a 2mm gap once the rear wall was installed. I'd recommend only removing 2 - 3mm and test fitting the parts to each other. Not a major problem though as I simply filled the gap with styrene strips.










I then installed the resin rear wall. Great care needs to be taken when removing the moulding plug from the edge of the part...I used a razor saw to remove the bulk of the waste, then carefully carved and sanded the remainder away. The part itself is flawlessly cast with no air bubbles or distortion....it virtually falls into place and I just ran some CA glue into the seams. The overall fit is excellent.



















Once installed, the outer lower panels were attached and the whole assembly set aside to dry.

One thing I have decided is that I will leave the bulkheads and seat arrangements as they are. I know the seat layout is wrong and the bulkheads should be further forward however I'm not planning on leaving the lid off and I think what can be seen through the windows is close enough to the movie for my liking.


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## Paulbo

I'm really looking forward to your take on this, Iain - I'm sure it will be up to your usual high standards.

Of course I'm also looking forward to your finished Flying Sub and Viper dios 

(Speaking of dios, I'm assuming you'll be doing some sort diorama for this as well. The Tyco landing pad, perhaps?)


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## whitewarrior

Outta my league but laying it out as you have, I have learned a few things already. Keep it up!


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## Bobj812

I can not wait to see this progress! Kinda wish I had waited and got the upgrades before I put mine together, and I'm sure I could have learned a lot from this build.


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## miniature sun

Paulbo said:


> Speaking of dios, I'm assuming you'll be doing some sort diorama for this as well. The Tyco landing pad, perhaps?


Indeed I will :thumbsup: working up some ideas now....


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## Jafo

gonna be watching this one!


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## miniature sun

Perhaps the most challenging task when using the resin set is installing the thrusters inside the two pods either side of the forward hull.
The kit parts are simply hollow and are missing one thruster entirely. The upgrade kit provides resin inserts to accurize these parts, however the existing apertures must be widened to take these inserts.
Firstly I used a permanent marker to label each insert as per instructions then carefully removed them from their moulding stub.










I photocopied the templates on the instruction sheet then cut them out and used them to mark the parts for cutting....for the three holes on the top and front faces of the pods I simply held the template in place while I used a pencil to mark the larger hole. If I was to do it again I think I'd glue the paper to the plastic using white glue then wash off the remainder afterwards.
Great care was taken to gradually widen the holes, constantly test fitting the resin parts for a tight fit....here the part on the left is finished while the one on the right still needs some work...










There is a slight error on the instruction sheet in that the templates given for the side thrusters are identical...they should be handed.
I used white glue to fix them to the parts....notice I have had to attach the one on the right face down to correct the error...










Once the glue has dried I'll drill and cut out the aperture then wash off the template.

More soon....


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## Paulbo

Oh, crud! I hadn't noticed that, Iain. Thanks for mentioning the I f'd up the templates. Looking at them again, it's obvious that they're identical. They'll be fixed for the next release of the instructions.


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## Carson Dyle

Thanks for taking the time to post this stuff, Iain. I'm gearing up to take a crack at the Moonbus myself, and it's always nice to have another build to reference.

Seems you're off to a good start. I just placed an order for the thruster parts, and will be monitoring your progress with interest.


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## Steve244

ye gods Carson, your builds are reference grade material. I'd hate to see what the two of you come up with running ideas against each other (but I'll watch anyway!).


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## miniature sun

Well, another evenings work and I've got the thrusters installed. It's definitely not a job for the faint-hearted and you really need to take your time testing and re-testing the fit but the end result is well worth it. The kit plastic is fairly soft so I'd recommend that you don't use a new blade as you might take too much off. I've got some minor gaps in places but I'll give them a coat of primer first so I can see where needs filling.
The inserts are a definite improvement over the kit parts....




























It's a tight fit inside so you need to ensure that they are properly located....hats off to whoever did the masters as they did a terrific job....


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## Paulbo

miniature sun said:


> ...hats off to whoever did the masters as they did a terrific job...


Thanks Iain! I spent a long time getting the fit just right while preserving the integrity of the parts.

One little trick I use when cutting out something like this is instead of tracing the template with a pencil, I use a panel line cutter. This gives me an engraved line to work with which is easier to cut to with a knife, then do the final cleanup with a jeweller's file.


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## fluke

Thanks! I gotta get me these kits!

Looking at this one for sure :thumbsup:


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## miniature sun

EL sheet arrived today....ultrafast service from Glowhut...so the next job will be removing the moulded-on lights in the cabin ceiling then scratchbuilding them again to sit over the EL sheet!.....might be something that could be done in resin or brass for the future Paul? The ideal solution would be a complete resin ceiling featuring the lights and the padded ribs inbetween them that could just slot into place?
Anyway, more pics soon...


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## SteveR

Nice work! May I ask ... which glowhut product did you purchase ...?


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## miniature sun

This panel.....

http://glowhut.com/6-inches-el-pane6.html

With this inverter....

http://glowhut.com/9-volt-dc-el-inverter-for-el-wire--strip--tape--pane.html

The panel can be cut with scissors to fit the internal width of the roof provided you don't cut the side with the connector.


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## miniature sun

A quick update.....

To install the EL sheet I first had to remove all the moulded detail in the cabin ceiling including the lights which aren't that accurate anyway. I did this by carefully scraping off most of the detail using a new curved x-acto blade. I then finished off using some fairly coarse sandpaper.
I then lined the roof with aluminium tape to prevent light leaks.










The EL sheet was trimmed to width with scissors....










I also drilled out the mountings for the rear landing gear and fed some wire through...this will eventually pass through the centre of the landing leg and into the base.



















I also added a 5mm wide styrene strip to the inside edge of the lower hull on each side to disguise the joint where it meets the roof/window assembly.


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## miniature sun

The EL strip was applied using double-sided tape on the reverse then the padded bulkheads were added over the top.....










Notice that the EL doesn't extend as far as the cockpit...I'm going to install a false ceiling in there to hide the connections and intend to light the cockpit with two red LED downlights.

Prior to installation the ends of the bulkheads were extended slightly by adding small pieces of Evergreen strip and sanding to shape to ensure that the bulkheads met the ribs on the inside face of the window inserts....these additions can just be seen in this photo....










Before installing the ParaGrafix etched window frames I intend to replace the overthick kit transparencies with either clear styrene sheet or possibly real glass microscope slide cover slips if I can get some.


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## miniature sun

The EL sheet visible between the padded bulkheads will be screened with styrene inserts with rectangular holes in to match the set...note that the moulded lights in the kit have rounded edges which don't appear to be accurate....


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## Paulbo

That EL sheet looks really nice! I like that the connector location will be hidden when you close it up.

What are you planning to do to create the shapes of the ceiling light panels? (Or did I miss that in an earlier post?)


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## Paulbo

Cross posting! You answered my question before I hit "post".


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## miniature sun

Paulbo said:


> What are you planning to do to create the shapes of the ceiling light panels?


It did occur to me that you could create a resin insert which includes the padded bulkheads and the revised lights!:thumbsup:


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## SteveR

Very nice! Thanks for the update.


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## Bobj812

I wish I had ended up using an EL sheet on mine, but since it was the first lighting job I had ever tried I just went with LEDs.
Really looking forward to the progress of this - I know it is going to be outstanding!


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## kdaracal

miniature sun starting a thread that's called "Moonbus Upgrade" means we'll probably get the whole moon..........


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## miniature sun

Just a quick word to say that I've got hold of some microscope cover slips from ebay that are roughly the correct size for the cabin windows so expect another photo update very soon :thumbsup:

I'm currently revamping my work area, partly to tidy it up and partly to give me some space to finish my Flying Sub dio....


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## miniature sun

Well still not much progress on the actual Moonbus as I've had a lot on at work however I was sorting through some other kits today and was struck by something which was ideal for the base I'm planning on constructing for the Moonbus to sit on.
I came across the AMT/Ertl Droid Tank from The Phantom Menace and realised that the stand it came with was exactly what I was looking for.
I sanded the logo off and cut away most of the rim and was left with a large shallow dish which eventually became this....





































As you can see it owes something to the antenna on the Discovery, I'm working on the cradle mechanism now but I think I'll stick with just one dish rather than the three on the Discovery. I guess dishes like this would be pretty common around Clavius and other lunar bases.


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## miniature sun

Another Friday evening in front of the TV and this is the result....














































Most of the bits on the rear of the dish came from the old Airfix (now Dapol) Diesel Crane with various other parts from my seemingly bottomless spares box.
The dish is to sit atop something I'm working on now then it's back on with the Moonbus itself....


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## teslabe

What can anyone say but "BEAUTIFUL"...........:thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## Paulbo

Your original stuff is just so inspiring, Iain. Great work!


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## Xenodyssey

I love your scratchbuild work! The antenna is great.


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## SteveR

Wow! That antenna's GREAT!


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## miniature sun

Finally plucked up the courage to tackle the inserts for the ceiling lights last night...a lot of measuring, trimming and cutting but I'm pleased with the results.
The inserts have aluminium tape on the back faces and are attached to the lightsheet with double-sided tape. Just need to sort the brass window liners now and the red LED's in the cockpit then I can paint the interior....










I've also removed the prominent lip from the window ledge on the outside of the cabin to better match the filming miniature....


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## Paulbo

Looking good Iain. Removing that lip makes such a huge difference in the appearance.


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## miniature sun

Another small modification to the kit....

I've scratchbuilt a small overhead console to create a false ceiling in the cockpit. This is mainly to hide the wiring tab on the lightsheet but also houses two 3mm red LED's to give the cockpit a nice red glow.
I also think it adds something to the overall look in keeping with the rest of the craft....I just don't like those little lampshades that come in the kit 

Here's the basic module...just some scraps of sheet styrene... I added some detail to the front in case it's visible through the windows...



















Inside it's just lined with aluminium tape then the LED's were wired in...notice the yellow insulation tape to prevent the wires shorting out on the aluminium...










I glued it in position using 5-minute epoxy...










A quick circuit test, a few coats of paint will take care of the light leaks....










More soon....:wave:


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## Dr. Brad

This is great!


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## GlennME

Yet another example of your fantastic work MS. I can hardly wait to see the finished Moonbus.

I'm always astounded by the numbers of talented people we have on these boards, and their willingness to share their methods, hints and tips with their fellow enthusiasts.


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## miniature sun

Another job I've been putting off has been tackling the figures but since I'm fast approaching closing up the interior I decided to bite the bullet and do something with them.
Aurora were never that brilliant with their small scale figures and Moebius chose not to alter the originals too much from what I can see. The two pilots and the standing guy with the lunchbox are not too bad but the rest of the figures resemble crash test dummies...either that or they're terrified of flying....
The one big plus is that they come with separate arms which allows some repositioning. Also the heads are easy to cut off and repose due to the neck ring for the helmet.
So, by chopping them about a little I ended up with these guys....



















A little crude but a vast improvement on what you get and good enough to be seen through the windows...I even made an attempt to give them the correct mission patches on their arms....


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## miniature sun

I decided to go for the pale green as the interior colour as it seems to look right when lit by the blue white of the light sheet. While waiting for it to dry I thought I'd get on with constructing more of the base.
A couple of hours outside in the sunshine and the result was this...










It's the top layer of what will eventually become a landing pad....and note it's NOT meant to represent the Tycho one at TMA-1.
It's made from 3mm clear acrylic sheet, the type of stuff they sell in builder's merchants, and I detailed it by scribing on the lines with an Olfa P-Cutter knife. I then gave it a good rub down with fine paper followed by a nylon pan scourer which gives a good key for the paint. Here it's just had a quick first coat of primer.
The holes took a while to mark out and carefully drill...these are to take a load of 3mm LED's.

To give a better idea of the scale here's the bus parked up....










More soon...


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## miniature sun

By the way, anyone got any ideas about how I can achieve a suitably powdery lunar surface which won't disintegrate every time the diorama is handled?
I know that on Space 1999 they used a lot of grey powder paint but I can't see that working in this instance...


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## Paulbo

Great idea for the base. You'd figure all the landing pads would be pretty similar but with variations so you've got something that fits in with what we've seen that isn't identical.

I'm sure one of the railroad people will have a good idea, but what pops to mind is talcum power on spray glue, then seal it with clear coat. I don't know if it would work, but figured I'd throw it out there.


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## miniature sun

Paulbo said:


> Great idea for the base. You'd figure all the landing pads would be pretty similar but with variations so you've got something that fits in with what we've seen that isn't identical.


That's exactly what I was aiming for...mind you, this is only _part_ of the base...


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## Paulbo

miniature sun said:


> ...mind you, this is only _part_ of the base...


It's you, Iain, so I had no doubt that there was far more to be coming along in more pictures


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## phicks

What scale are the Moonbus figures? Would it be possible to improve them by swapping in some heads from 1/48 Tamiya or 1/72 Preiser figures, or are they a "non standard" scale?


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## miniature sun

phicks said:


> What scale are the Moonbus figures? Would it be possible to improve them by swapping in some heads from 1/48 Tamiya or 1/72 Preiser figures, or are they a "non standard" scale?


The scale quoted is 1/55 so it's difficult to find alternatives. To be honest though I think they will look fine once installed, they're just not really up to todays standards.


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## SteveR

Y'know ... maybe someone who's good with figures could come up with a little aftermarket set ... guys eating sandwiches, or looking at an image of a magnetic anomaly ...?


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## Paulbo

They're a non standard scale, unfortunately.


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## SteveR

Ah, yes ... but I speak of 3D modeling and rapid prototyping.

... or sculpting, for that matter. All scratch-like, y'know.


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## kdaracal

> By the way, anyone got any ideas about how I can achieve a suitably powdery lunar surface which won't disintegrate every time the diorama is handled?


See? I told you we'd get the whole moon................:tongue::tongue:


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## miniature sun

Almost ready to close up the cabin now. I had an attempt at adding the velcro strips on the floor, first using thin strips of decal which proved far too fiddly, then by making and painting. I wasn't happy with the end results so I ended up overpainting with the green colour again. as it is, with the roof glued on you can barely see the floor anyway so I'm not that bothered.
I added the figures and gave the guys at the back some photos of TMA-1 to look at. The standing guy with the sandwich box had some fine wire gled into his feet and then the floor to give a stronger bond to avoid him coming loose once I'd sealed it up...














































The cargo was just used as it comes...I've always been amused by the idea of still using wooden crates but that's as it was in the movie so I painted them accordingly...










The pilots prepping for take-off....










Just noticed I still need to blank off those holes in the cockpit floor....

More soon....


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## starmanmm

The patches on the shoulders... are those decals?

What did you decide to do for the moon soil?


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## miniature sun

starmanmm said:


> The patches on the shoulders... are those decals?
> 
> What did you decide to do for the moon soil?


The patches were painted on freehand...not as daunting as it sounds, the two pilots and the standing guy already have small circles moulded on their arms and I just approximated it for the rest. I just painted a white circle then a blue circle inside it. I finished it using some yellow blobs to represent this....










...some came out better than others!

Still working on the lunar soil but I'll be sure to post details of whatever I come up with...:thumbsup:


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## Xenodyssey

That's the first time I've seen the logo/patch full size. I painted my figures much the same except I didn't use a wash like you have which makes them look much better.


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## miniature sun

Actually I didn't use a wash. I first painted the heads and hands then painted the whole suit matt black. I then used a liquid mask on the flesh areas then drybrushed the suits in aluminium and chrome silver which left the black in the recesses.


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## miniature sun

A little more progress...the etched set provides grab handles to fit along the ledge in front of the cabin windows. I thought about using them but decided to make them more three dimensional by using some fine gauge brass wire glued into holes drilled into the frame and the ledge...



















I also masked off the window apertures from the inside and masked around the whole window recess on the outside to allow me to paint the outside of the frames prior to installing the glass. This will allow for easier masking when I come to paint the rest of the exterior. I was also worried about masking the individual windows in case I cracked one...remember I'm using real glass....or in case I pushed one inside the cabin once it is sealed up. 
Here they are after painting....


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## Roy Kirchoff

Great work so far....... :thumbsup: 

~RK~


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## miniature sun

Finally after about five hours of fiddling and frustration I've managed to install the windows.
My original intention was to use microscope cover glass which I managed to obtain at the right width but, because they are square, was over-height and required trimming. 
After breaking about 20 in my attempts at cutting them I decided to abandon the idea and went instead for acetate which was much easier.
So, ten windows were cut and installed and I moved on to the etched inner frames which I had already painted.
Here I ran into problems, not because of the etched parts which are excellent, but due to the modifications that I'd made to the roof lights. This meant that the etched pieces were about 5mm too high and I had to trim each frame to fit.
In some cases this left a small gap at the top so I had to then add a narrow styrene soffit to hide this.....










...once painted though they blend in quite well...










Don't let any of this put you off using the etched set....on the stock kit parts the fit is excellent as I tried them out prior to my modifications.
Anyway, suffice to say I'm glad this part is over and I can now set to work fixing the roof in place and getting on with the exterior.


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## Paulbo

Great new update, Iain! The wire grab handles look super.

An alternative to cutting all that etch would have been to roll the edge over an Xacto knife handle so that it overlaps your ceiling a bit. You would have avoided the gap that way. Ah well, turned out fine and dandy the way you did it.


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## miniature sun

Paulbo said:


> Great new update, Iain! The wire grab handles look super.
> 
> An alternative to cutting all that etch would have been to roll the edge over an Xacto knife handle so that it overlaps your ceiling a bit. You would have avoided the gap that way. Ah well, turned out fine and dandy the way you did it.


Actually that did occur to me but it might have meant annealing the brass first which would have stripped the paint...never mind, I've just glued the lid on so it's full steam ahead with the rest of the kit now.
Think I might build a nice easy FineMolds kit next to give my brain a rest...


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## Paulbo

And repainting would have been such a beyotch.  (Besides, you wouldn't have had to strip the paint - the heat would burn it off ... though with some nasty fumes.)

That kind of rolling can be done without annealing (though it does make it easier).


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## miniature sun

Finally got to seal up the bus last night and apply most of the exterior etch. I was paranoid about sanding the seams up in case I got dust in the cabin so I attached the front windows first and taped over the wholes where the wires exit through the landing legs.
I sanded up the seams then applied the brass parts. I've used aluminium tape to represent the panelling on the nose. Overall now I think it's ready to paint.





































The base is also taking shape...I've added a landing circle and started to weather it. The final touch will be adding some blast marks from all the take offs and landings. I'm also working on some ground equipment and one of the Clavius buildings....the idea being it depicts the Moonbus departing for Tycho.




























More to come....


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## miniature sun

By the way, not sure whether those openings in the nose are supposed to be lights or thrusters....whatever, I decided on lights so they have bright white LED's installed which look pretty cool shining onto the landing pad....


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## SteveR

Terrific! :thumbsup:


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## Paulbo

miniature sun said:


> By the way, not sure whether those openings in the nose are supposed to be lights or thrusters....whatever, I decided on lights so they have bright white LED's installed which look pretty cool shining onto the landing pad....


Cool idea. I don't think they're thrusters 'cuz there are so many others, so lights makes sense.

When I looked at them in place, they kind of reminded me of the HAL eye on the front of the Space Pod. Too late to change them to red LEDs, and besides lights seems like a better idea.



miniature sun said:


> ...I'm also working on some ground equipment...


It's a Miniature Sun build. It goes without saying that there will be ground equipment :thumbsup:


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## Astrocat

miniature sun said:


> By the way, not sure whether those openings in the nose are supposed to be lights or thrusters....whatever, I decided on lights so they have bright white LED's installed which look pretty cool shining onto the landing pad....


They were lights on the original miniature. 
If you look closely at photos the bulbs are quite evident. There are matching lights on the rear either side of the door. On the shots of the original Moonbus at Mastermodels electrical wiring can be seen through the cockpit windows.
As far as I know the practical lights were never used at any point though.

Keith


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## miniature sun

Astrocat said:


> They were lights on the original miniature.
> If you look closely at photos the bulbs are quite evident. There are matching lights on the rear either side of the door. On the shots of the original Moonbus at Mastermodels electrical wiring can be seen through the cockpit windows.
> As far as I know the practical lights were never used at any point though.
> 
> Keith


Cheers Keith, the best pic I had of the nose was the one on the front of the ParaGrafix resin instructions and they looked like a recess with a spotlight at the bottom...it would make sense for the pilots to see ahead once they crossed onto the dark side.


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## miniature sun

Just noticed I hadn't shown the underside of the landing pad....I constructed a simple apron the width of my steel ruler, inset from the edge and secured with some internal bracing. I then detailed the outer face with Evergreen strips....




























Next job is to install the 40 white LED's.....


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## Paulbo

Nice construction. I like the method for hiding the seam.


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## SteveR

miniature sun said:


> Next job is to install the 40 white LED's.....


Chaser?


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## miniature sun

SteveR said:


> Chaser?


No, I plan on having them steady just like the ones in the movie...


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## Al Loew

Ian, this is coming along great! I can't wait to see the finished product!


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## starmanmm

Very cool on the base.


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## miniature sun

Thanks for the comments and support folks...it's really appreciated...

About five hours work has gone into wiring up the lights in the base....










I used 3mm white LED's each with their own resistor and wired in parallel to give an even brightness. I applied some aluminium tape to the underside of the holes to prevent light leaks then made some packers to mount the LED's so that just the tip protruded from the hole on the surface.....










The result is quite a realistic look to each light giving a better scale appearance than just having the entire LED protruding...










Of course the real magic is when you apply the power...even in daylight the effect is terrific...










I'm on with the painting of the bus now....


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## teslabe

Once again, a very fine piece of work.......:thumbsup: You put CGI to shame......


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## SteveR

Neat! Are you adding any lights to the underside of the moonbus?


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## Roy Kirchoff

Superb!

~RK~


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## miniature sun

The moon bus has two 'headlights' wired in on the nose but I wasn't aware of any on the underside, besides which it's too late now.
Still to come is one of the Clavius Base buildings with a docking facility....


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## SteveR

Ah. Too late? I understand. 
No, I wasn't suggesting there were any on the original miniature -- it would be conjectural, but in my opinion, not an unreasonable addition. Personally, I'd want to see where I was going if I were dropping down onto a landing site ... what if the lights on the pad went out?

Beautiful work, nevertheless.


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## miniature sun

That's not a bad idea Steve, a bit like the lights on the underside of the Nostromo, especially if you were landing on the lunar surface somewhere where there wasn't a pad.
I guess the pilots rely on that wireframe computer graphic that you see in the movie...


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## miniature sun

By the way, you might have noticed that in the last pic there is a slightly wider gap between two of the lights at the left hand rear corner...it was a miscalculation on my part but I have a cunning plan to disguise it....


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## miniature sun

Done most of the painting and the first stage of weathering. Still needs some touching in and some random panels painting in contrasting shades. Just thought I'd try it out on the base...I've now drilled two holes, one under each rear leg to run the wires through that feed the interior lights.
Also still needs the engine bells and the antenna fitting. I'm thinking of leaving off the decals as I can't find any sign of them on the filming miniature....




























Nearly there!.....


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## miniature sun

Looking at that last pic I spotted I need to paint some black in around the top of the cockpit windows...funny what you notice on a photograph that you never spotted on the actual model....


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## kdaracal

miniature sun said:


> Looking at that last pic I spotted I need to paint some black in around the top of the cockpit windows...funny what you notice on a photograph that you never spotted on the actual model....


My eyes have really gone down hill the last few years. I notice all kinds of flaws on my own stuff with my camera pics. 

Very nice job on this, just looks really "real". Superb!


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## kdaracal

Will you be posting some lighted finish pics? Can't wait to see some lighted pics in the dark. Do you still need to add some moon dust? I remember reading that moon dust is super-fine and sticks to everything. Like talcum powder. 

Hey, will you be adding thruster blast marks from previous landings on the pad? 

Sorry about the "20 questions". This is one exciting build. One of the best Moonbus' I've seen so far!


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## miniature sun

Yes I'll be posting some 'lit' pics but first I need to finish the Moonbus so I can permanently fix it to the base. The inverter for the light sheet and the power will be hidden inside a building at one end of the pad.
I'm intending to finish the weathering with pigments and actually have a Mig pigment called Lunar Dust which should add a little definition to the black areas.
The blast marks are also in hand which will be a combination of paint, pigments and graphite pencil.
Glad you like it so far....


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## SteveR

Looking forward to the big reveal!


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## miniature sun

Progress on the building section for the end of the pad....

As I used the resin rear wall for the Moonbus I had the kit part left over so thought I'd use the rear door as the basis of a docking mechanism.
I was conscious of avoiding too many similarities with the Eagle pads from Space:1999 and I still wanted to see the rear door on the Moonbus so decided to model the docking tube in a retracted state. The recess is a plastic patress designed to fit a light switch into a partition wall. It's detailed inside with some scrap plastic and the sections of telescoping tube are from sheet styrene, as are the walls. I wanted to give a fairly clean industrial look to tie in with the overall style seen in the movie so avoided the use of lots of greeblies for detail. The only kit parts used aside from the airlock door are the vents below the recess which came from the engine lid of a 1/24 Toyota MR2.



















The square hole in the wall is for a control room window. I'm currently constructing the room and will light it inside.
Still to add is a roof section to take the antenna seen earlier in the thread....


----------



## Bobj812

You are just too darned awesome!


----------



## miniature sun

Another quick update....

I've been adding some structure to the rear of the docking platform, mainly to support the roof where the antenna will be sitting.
In the process I've also built this small room to place behind the window to the right of the docking tube.
Not much detail, just some structure to add some relief to the walls. The pressure door is the spare from the Moonbus interior, the screen to the right will be lit which in turn should light up the room....the photos show it from below, the tiled area being the ceiling....



















More tomorrow.....:thumbsup:


----------



## miniature sun

Still working on the base...

I'm using an offcut of MDF for the actual base and I'm setting everything at a slight angle to the edge as this always looks more realistic somehow.

Here are all the elements in place including the antenna on the roof...still some work to do on the building and the Moonbus still needs final weathering and the engine nozzles attaching...










I constructed a small ramp as a means of access from the lunar surface, just some styrene sheet and florist's wire...










While it was all set up I thought it might be useful to run a lighting test...
I'm particularly pleased with the red glow in the cockpit with the blue of the cabin showing behind it...note the two headlamps on the nose...










Some shots of the cabin...




























More soon....:wave:


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## rowdylex

You are the MASTER of your domain. 

Well done.


----------



## miniature sun

Last update for today...

Finally got round to adding the pipework to the resin engine bells. I found the brass wire supplied in the upgrade kit too hard to bend accurately in the jig so I tried the surplus legs from the resistors that I used on the landing pad lights. These proved to be softer and easier to bend....










Behind them you can see the etched brass antenna for the Moonbus roof....

More soon...


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## Al Loew

Outstanding work, Ian! I was thinking (I know, nothing good can come from that!) that it would be great to put a few of the guys from the kit behind the window in the building. Any plans on adding more people to the scene?


----------



## Paulbo

Hot damn! Awesome!


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## miniature sun

I'm thinking of using a couple of the spare guys in the room. They would be suited up in case of an emergency on the pad.


----------



## SteveR

Will there be any in-jokes in the room's decor?


----------



## miniature sun

SteveR said:


> Will there be any in-jokes in the room's decor?


You'll have to wait and see...I have something in mind....


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## Fernando Mureb

rowdylex said:


> You are the MASTER of your domain.
> Well done.


I couldn't say better. All the miniature sun threads are duly bookmarked.

They are all numbered between the best!!


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## starmanmm

Great work!


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## Tim H.

Can I send you my Moonbus to build? 
This is a terrific thread, thanks for posting all this helpful info if I decide to go a similar route. Dio looks great, you made the lighting seem easy (thanks for the link to Glow Hut). :thumbsup:


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## miniature sun

Another quick update....

I painted the engine bells then installed them...I'd already fitted the resin gimbals to the underside of the hull.
I primed them in grey followed by a couple of coats of PlastiKote Aluminium spray which comes out almost like chrome.
Once dry for a couple of days I painted the insides with matt black enamel...I'll add some soot to the outside edges with pigments when I finish the weathering. Note the wires exiting the model through the landing gear...



















I've also been painting the building....

It had a coat of grey primer followed by a coat of matt black...the following day I sprayed it white gloss...this will dull down with the weathering process. I decided to add a little colour with the orange surround to the docking port and the pad number which was masked off then painted in black enamel. It all looks a little stark at the moment but it will all start to blend together once the weathering starts.




























It feels like it's all coming together now....


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## Paulbo

Great googly moogly!


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## lyonfan

Great job. Very nice.


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## starmanmm

Very, very cool!


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## miniature sun

Had a bit of time today as it's a public holiday in the UK and true to form it rained all day!

I've been weathering the Clavius building and toned down the stark white with some heavy washes and some drybrushing...I know there's no weather on the Moon but I figure the buildings would get pretty grimy with all that lunar dust kicked up by all the take-offs and landings on the pad.
Still a little work to do with some pigments but I'll do that when everything is fixed to the base....
So here's the building so far....










To add some interest I fitted a blue LED into the docking port...



















I also finished detailing and lighting the small control room and added a spare crewman from the Moonbus....










Note the four red LED's at the front of the room which give a diffused red glow reminicent of the 'trench' scene of the Aries 1B landing. I found an image online of one of the screens from the spacepod interior which I printed off then added behind a piece of clear acetate which is lit by two white LED's from behind...










Here it is lit....










On the outside with foil to stop light leaks....










And how it looks installed.....


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## miniature sun

Actually I was thinking of having an in-joke in the room by having Stanley Kubrick staring out from the screen but in the end went for the Discovery graphic which I think looks better....


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## Paulbo

Wow, the slight weathering makes a HUGE difference. All the details just pop with what you've done thus far.

Is that one of my Space Pod graphics in the display screen? Hmm, nope. Just double-checked my graphics and my "DMC" (not "DMG") was on a blue background, not red. Nicely done.


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## miniature sun

Thanks Paul....not sure where the graphic came from...it's on a PDF that I saved maybe three or four years ago, don't know where from.
I agree on the weathering....leaving it plain white just looks wrong, makes it look toy-like.
I was wary about going too heavy but felt it needed a well-used look.


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## miniature sun

I guess it's useful to have a contrast as the pics are spread over two pages....

Before....










After...


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## Paulbo

Cool! Thanks for the side by side (well, top over bottom) images. It's amazing what paint does for a model. It's something I'm not good at, and I love to see good examples.

(My brother's a master woodworker and I'm always surprised that one of his catchphrases is "putty and paint make it what it ain't". I always try to make my wordworking projects work without any putty or paint ... which is why my stuff always is less than what I'd like it to be.)

BTW - I did the "DMC" on my set as an homage to Delorean Motor Corporation. Tons of other little "tweaks", such as "spin, dry, rinse, fold" for the various buttons. I figured they were so small no one would notice. (On the decal set, I have instructions for the explosive bolts controls that include "kiss your a$$ goodbye".  )


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## miniature sun

Looking at it now it looks like it's made out of concrete which I suppose might be possible using materials in the lunar crust....it's weird how you start thinking about this kind of thing once you embark on a project like this...I don't think other branches of modelling face these problems...


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## miniature sun

That's a strange coincidence Paul as I'm a time-served cabinetmaker myself, although I actually teach construction now which, I guess, shows in my work on here.
It's true that in woodworking you try to bring out the natural beauty of the timber without any artificial additions....when you're working with styrene, resin and brass the challenge is to make it look like it's made from some other material


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## Paulbo

Too true regarding the cabinetry end of things. I'm continuously working towards getting to the point where I build something that I'd be happy slapping a coat of stain and urethane and be done with it. I stilll *need* to do a ton of putty work on my cabinetry work ... and shockingly, I *still* need to do a ton of putty work on my modeling work.


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## miniature sun

Just about ready to start attaching everything to the base. As the base is made from MDF it's fairly heavy so in an attempt to lighten the weight I've marked the location of the pad then cut out two sections with a jigsaw.










This also allows access to the wiring should any problems occur in future. Just need to edge the board now then I can start on the lunar surface....


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## miniature sun

So the board has been edged in some softwood strips which stand slightly higher than the face of the board to provide a lip which will contain the terrain.
The building was attached to the board using 5-minute epoxy. Prior to that I wired in three feeds, one for the lights on the pad, one for the cockpit/headlights and one for the EL sheet in the roof of the cabin. These were numbered and fed under the pad. I epoxied a connector block under the pad to avoid having to solder in such a confined space.










Because of the narrow space between the building and the pad I've had to apply the terrain here first. This will be painted before the pad is attached then the rest of the terrain will be applied and blended in.
I used a fairly stiff mix of interior filler and smoothed it over with a wet finger. Once this dries I intend to coat it with PVA glue then sprinkle with baking soda. Finally I'll paint it with various shades of grey.




























I'm figuring that the surface around the pad would be fairly smooth as it would have been levelled to build the pad and the dust kicked up by the take-offs and landings will have covered any marks even more.

The rear of the building has been sprayed black to match the base and I've left a compartment at one end for the power supply and inverter to be concealed. 










The lights will be controlled from three switches on the compartment door...










More soon....


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## miniature sun

Just a slight diversion...these arrived in the post today as a companion piece to the Moonbus.










The Orion looks smaller than I remember the Aurora being although I was a whole lot smaller too when I last held one!
The etched parts are insane,can't wait to try lighting them.
I'll start a separate thread when I tackle this...already got ideas for a diorama forming in my head....


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## Steve244

I can't wait to see your rendition of the hotel at the end of the universe. Or was it a restaurant?


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## miniature sun

Yet another quick update....

I'm still experimenting with the lunar surface but in the meantime I thought I'd knock together a couple of pieces of ancillary equipment to fill a couple of areas on the base.
I decided on a small generator housing and another, smaller antenna array.










I originally painted this white but then changed to blue to add a little more colour to the scene...it was made from the bottom part of a cocktail stick container and dressed up with various kit parts....





































The antenna is made from various bits including bomb racks from a Monogram Liberator, the nose radar of a Tamiya F14, a front fork from an Airfix BSA motorcycle and other bits and bobs....



















I'm hoping to finish the whole diorama this weekend....


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## SteveR

"Knock together". Heh. 

I look forward to this thread when I log in, MS.


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## Paulbo

Ditto both of SteveR's comments!


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## OzyMandias

Wow!!! I hadn't been back to this thread for a while. What a pleasure to sit with my morning coffee and review your progress on the Moonbus and diorama. 

I'm utterly gobsmacked. Just when I think I've seen everything in customising, you raise the bar again MS. Kudos!


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## miniature sun

Browsing the web the other night I came across these decals from a company called Veni Vidi Vici 










www.3vwargames.co.uk

They are just the right size for this diorama....










Notice I also added some gold foil to the antenna housing on the roof as a sort of nod to the Apollo landings...this was from the thick foil on a chocolate coin rolled flat.


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## miniature sun

Finally got a lunar surface that I was happy with. I tried using an Acrylic Flocking Gel as used by wargamers but it was hell to apply and then tried Portland cement held in place with hairspray. That was a disaster so I ended up using very fine aquarium sand sprincled over a coating of PVA. Once dry this was sprayed with Auto grey primer. It's still a little grittier than I'd like but it looks ok. The flash makes it appear slightly metallic but it looks good to the eye....



















Still some touching in to do round the base of the pad but overall I think it's just about finished.

I've added some fairly sooty blast marks to the pad figuring that the moonbuses all land pretty much bang on target.



















The antenna has recieved some decals just to add a touch of colour to the scene including a manufacturers logo to keep up with the product placement seen in the movie...




























Just need to attach the Moonbus to the pad and wire in the switches and I'm done :thumbsup:


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## Bobj812

Very cool!
Are you able to take natural light exposures at all? I'd love to see it with the lighting in all its glory, and without it being flattened out by a flash.
Your work is very inspirational, and I love your threads.


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## miniature sun

Thanks Bob, much appreciated.
As soon as it's finished I'll take some in natural light both lit and unlit.


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## Paulbo

Cool!


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## Steve244

Very nice. Looking forward to the final beauty shots.


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## scotpens

miniature sun said:


> . . . The antenna has recieved some decals just to add a touch of colour to the scene including a manufacturers logo to keep up with the product placement seen in the movie...


The whole thing looks great, very realistic. I especially like the details and weathering on the blue, uh, whatever-it-is with the radiation warning logo. And the spare moonbus door gives the impression of a standard docking collar that’s used for many different vehicles and docking ports.

One tiny nitpick: I don’t believe Honda is directly involved in the manufacture of electronics. I’ve never seen their logo on a radio or radar antenna, at least not in _our_ reality. But in the alternate timeline of _2001: A Space Odyssey_, where there’ve been permanent lunar bases and routine shuttle flights to the moon for at least the past 10 years, anything’s possible!


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## miniature sun

Actually I was basing it on the fact that as well as cars and bikes, Honda are also involved in some aspects of heavy industry and robotic technology and it wouldn't be that much of a stretch to see them producing large-scale antenna equipment....that and the fact that I happened to have a Honda logo in my decal box!


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## scotpens

miniature sun said:


> Actually I was basing it on the fact that as well as cars and bikes, Honda are also involved in some aspects of heavy industry and robotic technology and it wouldn't be that much of a stretch to see them producing large-scale antenna equipment....that and the fact that I happened to have a Honda logo in my decal box!


Well, it doesn’t really matter whose logo it is — as long as it’s Japanese! :tongue:


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## miniature sun

Finally finished the wiring...I built a small styrene assembly to contain the three 9v batteries that power the diorama along with the inverter for the cabin lights. I also fitted a potentiometer (variable resistor) into the live feed to the pad lights to allow me to control the brightness as they are BRIGHT!



















Last job was to fit the roof aerial to the Moonbus and it was finished!!


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## miniature sun

Just took some quick pics outside against a black cloth....I'll get some better ones soon as I can clear some space to set up a proper shoot....

Lights off....










Lights on....














































I'm really pleased that it's all come together in the end but also pleased that I can finally move on to something else....(eyes turn to half-finished Flying Sub in the corner....)


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## miniature sun

Just checked the start date of this thread....six months!...I need to speed up my production rate!


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## Steve244

Very nice! We need a shot by earthlight!


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## Paulbo

Very nice!


miniature sun said:


> Just checked the start date of this thread....six months!...I need to speed up my production rate!


Or just stay on one thing at a time  (The pot calling the kettle black.)

Speaking of other projects ... what's up with the Flying Sub?


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## miniature sun

The Flying Sub is alive and well and still living in its box awaiting a coat of paint and a new diorama base after I decided that the first one was too massive. Expect some movement on that fairly soon....


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## SteveR

Yes! Sharp sunlight, backlit. Maybe in a room with no fill light.


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## Bobj812

Outstanding!


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## kdaracal

Epic. Freaking epic. I love everything. The back of the dish detail, the lights, the lunar dust choice, blast marks, the cocked angle, the color choices, weathering, etc, etc, etc,....with the correct lighting, this could look *REAL*

You do the movie and the hobby proud!


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## kdaracal

> _Speaking of other projects ... what's up with the Flying Sub?_


Patience! It's like a fine wine...............:wave:


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## teslabe

miniature sun said:


> Just checked the start date of this thread....six months!...I need to speed up my production rate!


I wouldn't worry to much about six months, I started my thread on my Chariot's build back on 02/15/09....... I'm glad I let it take this long to get where I am with the two kits. It gave me time to find better ways to do what I've done so far and I still have a long way to go......


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## Steve244

have to gush a little more: brilliant design and execution. Kubrick is smiling. I especially like that you have filled in very plausible detail for the rear hatch connecting with a "bus-way."

For those that just joined us, be sure to go back to the beginning to seem detail pics of what's on the _inside_.

Now back to the Sub! (where's that model dominatrix? oops, wrong board).


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## Dr. Brad

This is absolutely brilliant! Just love it!


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## miniature sun

Following on from my other thread asking about the manufacturer of the Moonbus I went with Grumman and devised this nameplate for the diorama.

I simply printed the text onto some heavy white card then mounted it using double-sided tape onto an offcut of acrylic sheet.

A finishing touch is the embroidered patch that I found on eBay....



















All done!:thumbsup:


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## OzyMandias

Very cool MS. A perfect way to finish a perfect diorama!


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## kdaracal

Icing on the cake!


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## Steve244

Bravissimo!

(what font is that?)


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## SteveR

Did "Outland" use that typeface?


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## miniature sun

I found the font online...it's called 'U.S.S. Dallas'

http://www.ffonts.net/USS-Dallas.font


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## SteveR

Ah. Here's what I was talking about:

http://www.fontyukle.net/en/1,outland
http://www.n9.fr/index.php?id=025

Similar, yet different from yours, MS.


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## miniature sun

As a postscript to this thread I've been taking some new pics...here's one I've been playing about with....


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## Bobj812

That is too cool!


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## Xenodyssey

Really nice. It's very atomospheric of the movie.


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## Paulbo

Slick.

I'm looking forward to seeing more.


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## SteveR

Cool. 
Can you comp the earth in screen mode in Photoshop?


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## scotpens

^^ Are you talking about something like this?


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## kdaracal

Thanks for the pics, miniature sun. Super nice. Looks like unreleased film footage. "Director's Cut" 

Top drawer diorama, my friend!


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## miniature sun

scotpens said:


> ^^ Are you talking about something like this?


That looks pretty cool, however I prefer my version as it looks more like the footage from the Apollo missions with little evidence of visible stars.


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## enterprise_fan

So how about this one?


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## SteveR

enterprise_fan said:


> So how about this one?


Yes ... I could see that the Earth black was darker than the background before. Jus' bein' picky.


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## teslabe

scotpens said:


> ^^ Are you talking about something like this?


Absolutely beautiful work.......:thumbsup:


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## scotpens

miniature sun said:


> That looks pretty cool, however I prefer my version as it looks more like the footage from the Apollo missions with little evidence of visible stars.


Actually, a starless or near-starless lunar sky is probably closer to what you’d see with the naked eye as well, depending on conditions.

So my version can be taken as a bit of artistic license.


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## Bobj812

I would think you would see stars with the naked eye if you were in shadow. Out in harsh sunlight and the pupil size is reduced letting less light in, you would be less likely to see stars. Why we don't see them in photos is because of the exposure for the highlighted areas that wash out any starlight. I don't recall off the top of my head any astronauts raving over the sight of stars on the moon. But I suppose if I were on the moon I would probably be in the mindset of, "Holy cow! I'm on the freakin' moon!" and not prone to star gazing....


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## JeffG

I recall hearing that the astronauts can quite plainly see stars in space, but cameras can't deal with the extremes in contrast. If they expose for the stars, everything else that's bright in the scene will just wash out. Once they stop down to expose for their main subject, the stars-much less bright in comparison-fade out. With advances in technology on all fronts, I'd have thought they could have solved this age old photography problem by now, but I guess it's easier said than done. Oh, BTW...excellent work!


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## Bobj812

I was told in photography class back, oh, 30 years ago, that the human eye can distinguish one part in a million, where cameras could only distinguish something like one part in 10,000. I'm not sure if that's factoring the best lens and large format film back in the day, or the average 35mm camera - or even how true it was (the instructor at the time certainly was on top of things and I had no reason not to believe him). While digital photography has certainly improved and even exceeded some film resolution, it still seems to be limited to the same exposure rules as film cameras were - at least in commercial grade stuff. While they are changing the ways some cameras take and record pics, I think we have a ways to go yet for them to reach what the human eye sees. 
Sorry, Miniature Sun - don't mean to highjack your thread. I wish I lived across the pond so I could take some pics of your incredible builds! The things that could be done....


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## teslabe

JeffG said:


> I'd have thought they could have solved this age old photography problem by now, but I guess it's easier said than done. Oh, BTW...excellent work!


They have it's called H.D.R., "High Dynamic Range", photography.....


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## Bobj812

Well....not really. It's post production manipulating of multiple exposures. Sure, a RAW file has more info to work with, but there's still a limit. All it really is is bracketing exposures and the digital equivalent of good ol' burning and dodging. 
Don't believe they have an actual HDR camera that's as good or close to the eye.


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## Bobj812

Thought I would try my hand at this pic and what I thought it might look like if moon dust were kicked up and floating around. I think the light beams are too heavy handed by far, but not bad for about 10 minutes work.


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## miniature sun

Actually I didn't notice the issue with the two-tone black sky until I saw it on a monitor at work today...it all just looks black on mine at home.


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## scotpens

Bobj812 said:


> Thought I would try my hand at this pic and what I thought it might look like if moon dust were kicked up and floating around. I think the light beams are too heavy handed by far, but not bad for about 10 minutes work.


The dust in the foreground looks realistic, like maybe the astronauts are about to pull up in a lunar rover that's just out of frame.

If the light beams are on a separate layer, it's an easy matter to decrease the opacity a bit.


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## JeffG

Bobj812 said:


> Well....not really. It's post production manipulating of multiple exposures. Sure, a RAW file has more info to work with, but there's still a limit. All it really is is bracketing exposures and the digital equivalent of good ol' burning and dodging.
> Don't believe they have an actual HDR camera that's as good or close to the eye.


Yep. I knew about HDR. It's used a lot these days in VFX for films. Particularly in texture maps used for digital backgrounds and such. Not so much for typical photography though.


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## Bobj812

scotpens said:


> The dust in the foreground looks realistic, like maybe the astronauts are about to pull up in a lunar rover that's just out of frame.
> 
> If the light beams are on a separate layer, it's an easy matter to decrease the opacity a bit.


Yeah, I wished I had bothered to layer up, but ah well. Had to get moving on other things, but the nerd in me had to "get it done" before I was allowed to actually get some work done.


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## Bobj812

Okay, here's a more subtle version, with a bit of a moonscape added in the background. I think I have it out of my system, even if it's still not perfect. And if my tampering with your photo, Miniature Sun, is annoying - I am sorry. Just got a little inspired is all.


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## miniature sun

No problem Bob...I'm flattered that it caused so much interest


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## Steve244

Has anyone done an analysis to determine if the thing could actually fly? (I mean if it were real and all). Would gimbaling the engines provide forward force? I guess the LEM worked that way. And what would its range be assuming some standard rocket propellant and 1/6 gravity with the volume available for fuel?

Is it a practical design or just cool in an Irwin-Stanley sort of way?

We must have more than one rocket-scientist here...


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## Paulbo

A long bit more practical than an Irwin Allen type of design. 

Would it really work the way they show it? I can definitely say "yes". The reason for this statement is that the B2 stealth bomber flies even though it shouldn't because there's 1980s computer technology tweaking the engines to make it maintain straight flight.

Given that, the engines on the moon bus could be tweaked to maintain level flight. As for moving forward, there are extra thrusters to do that and gimbaling the main engines is not required.


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## scotpens

Steve244 said:


> Has anyone done an analysis to determine if the thing could actually fly? (I mean if it were real and all). Would gimbaling the engines provide forward force? I guess the LEM worked that way.


The main engines of the Apollo LEM’s ascent and descent stages were used for just that — landing and taking off. Directional control was provided by four-way control thrusters.

As for the practicality of the moonbus: It’s not a matter of control or stability; it’s a matter of fuel capacity. We don’t know how much a real moonbus would weigh in lunar gravity, but I don’t see how it could begin to contain enough fuel to keep the six downward-facing rockets burning constantly — which they’d have to do to keep the craft aloft.

IIRC, the moonbus was originally supposed to crawl along the lunar surface on caterpillar treads, with rockets for brief hops for clearing large obstacles. With the miniature FX of the time, it would have been impossible to depict such a vehicle with the realism Kubrick wanted. So the simpler effect of the bus “flying” at low altitude was used instead.


----------



## stargazer

No you are wrong... the reaction control thrusters were used in 'space'...mostly for docking manoeuvres. 

The gimballed main engine provided 'forward' motion as well as 'hover', the reaction thrusters however did provide occasional computer controlled 'stability' while landing


----------



## Steve244

It also raises the question of which would be more fuel efficient: a ballistic trajectory and powered landing, or gracefully hovering along?

Intuition tells me the former but that's got me in trouble before.

And while I'm at it, why does every other director insist on sound waves traveling through a vacuum?


----------



## scotpens

*@ stargazer:* Very well, then; I stand corrected.



Steve244 said:


> . . . And while I'm at it, why does every other director insist on sound waves traveling through a vacuum?


According to George Lucas, regarding _Star Wars_: "Well we are going to have music and if you are not going to justify where the orchestra comes from, I guess we can have any kind of sound we want."

Source: http://filmsound.org/starwars/dramatic.htm


----------



## SteveR

Steve244 said:


> It also raises the question of which would be more fuel efficient: a ballistic trajectory and powered landing, or gracefully hovering along?


Hmm ... sounds like the graceful hovering along could be engineered as a series of infinitesmal ballistic hops, once the initial height is achieved ... kind of like a skipping stone. The gravitational potential energy would be the same, for a given height (one big ballistic vs. a bunch of hops), so maybe the two approaches would be equal ... but really, I have no idea. 

Maybe those guys at MIT have an idea. thesis


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## Steve244

Skimmed it. They seem to be suggesting having craft that can reposition themselves (hop) is less costly then sending multiple craft. I couldn't glean anything about efficiencies of hovering vs a ballistic (or many small ballistic using the "hoptimizer") hops. If Moonbus did that I bet they'd need a bunch of space-sick bags.

I can see "fun" movies having noisy spaceships in space, but we deserve silence (perhaps with the Blue Danube playing softly in our ears) for serious SF. Everyone knows in space no one can hear you scream.


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## steve123

Bobj812 said:


> Thought I would try my hand at this pic and what I thought it might look like if moon dust were kicked up and floating around. I think the light beams are too heavy handed by far, but not bad for about 10 minutes work.


Bob, You did a great job!! I like the pic, and the Dio!!

Sorry, too busy to pontificate on sound or light...lol


Steve


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## Bobj812

Thanks (although I'm kind of embarrassed at my tinkering with the pic now). Just to be clear: that it is Miniature Sun's original pic (I just defaced it) and more importantly his dio. If I had a fraction of his modeling skills I'd be twice the modeler I am now.


----------

