# Whats your favorite Pearl White



## ClubTepes (Jul 31, 2002)

As the title says, whats everyones favorite pearl white for painting the Enterprise.

I think I've collected every 'pearl white' that I've come accross.

So far, I think I'm most impressed by Parma's 'FASKOLOR'.
I've been doing mixes with different ratios of the P.W. and their standard white and come up with some looks that I really like.

The problem is, these are actually RC car paints. So I'm a little concerned about this paints performance.

Has anyone else tried this stuff, and what have others done for their Pearl White??


----------



## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

*Whats your favorite Pear White*



ClubTepes said:


> As the title says, whats everyones favorite pearl white for painting the Enterprise.


Not to quibble, but . . . :jest:


Seriously, that's something I'd like to know as well


----------



## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

My favorite:


----------



## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

^^Wow, John! You managed to fit 1002 words into a single post!


----------



## Raist3001 (Oct 23, 2003)

I've only ever worked with Wasco paints. I use Satin white pearl to paint the primary aztec, and iridescent blues, greens, reds, and golds for the 4 layor secondary pattern.


----------



## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

Raist's azteking looks so perfect, it's hard to imagine using anything other than the WASCO paints...


----------



## Ruckdog (Jan 17, 2006)

Well, I just used flat and gloss white on mine, and the effect worked well enough for me. I agree though, Raist's work looks AMAZING. I just didn't have the time, patientce, and skill to mask the bloody thing 4 or 5 times.


----------



## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Krako said:


> Raist's azteking looks so perfect, it's hard to imagine using anything other than the WASCO paints...


Amen! :thumbsup:


----------



## Raist3001 (Oct 23, 2003)

You guys are just too kind.

Group hug


----------



## ClubTepes (Jul 31, 2002)

Raist3001 said:


> I've only ever worked with Wasco paints. I use Satin white pearl to paint the primary aztec, and iridescent blues, greens, reds, and golds for the 4 layor secondary pattern.


I'm not familiar with that brand.

What can you tell me about it.

Where did you get it?

Is it laquer, enamel, arcrylic or what?

Did you have ANY issues with the painted ie: peel-ups etc?

Looking for pics.

Thanks.


----------



## Raist3001 (Oct 23, 2003)

ClubTepes said:


> I'm not familiar with that brand.


Neither was I. I happened to stumble upon it by accident.



> What can you tell me about it. Is it laquer, enamel, arcrylic or what?


They are water based paints. Sealing requires a waterbased spray. They can be purchased from the following site:

http://www.taxidermy.com/

Browse to airbrush paints, and then to Pearlescent and iridescent colors. 



> Did you have ANY issues with the painted ie: peel-ups etc?


None what so ever. Although, each coat is allowed to dry for 3-4 days. I have found that the longer you allow the WASCO paint to sit, the better it blends with the base coat, and the more invisible it becomes.



> Looking for pics.


----------



## ClubTepes (Jul 31, 2002)

Thanks for the quick reply Raist.

I went to the photobucket sight and looked at all your pics.

VERY nice job.

I have to say, your results look A LOT like my tests so far in terms of quality and essence.

I also just visited the link and it looks interesting.
It looks as though you can also get the paints in laquer finish as well.

Did you start out with a white base coat then add the pearls on top or what?

On your irredescent paints like the blue, when you look at it off axis, does it shift to a non-irredescent yellow at all? Or do they go to nothingness?
I'm wondering if that is a by-product of the effect or simply a issue with the FASKOLOR brand.

The prices also don't look to bad from this place.


----------



## mechinyun (Feb 23, 2004)

Been watching your progress, excellent. Before the PL was released I went to that taxidermy site and thought that those would be an excellent solution. I have yet to build my kit so I never got to test it out. But wow, results are amazing. Clubtepes above posts some intresting questions I would like to know as well. Was your base coat a pearl/flat/semi? What brand did you use there? 

Thanks!


----------



## Raist3001 (Oct 23, 2003)

> Did you start out with a white base coat then add the pearls on top or what?


On my test build, after each part was primed, I sprayed the kit with Testors acrylic flat white. I then layed down my templates and sprayed my pearl coats over this. 



> On your irredescent paints like the blue, when you look at it off axis, does it shift to a non-irredescent yellow at all? Or do they go to nothingness?


The longer you allow the WASCO colors to sit, the better they will blend into the background to a virtual nothingness. There is no off axis shift to iridescent yellow what so ever. Just remember that these are pearl colors so at any given time, there is light striking the hull. A point on the kit will always be pearling, while other areas look as if there is nothing there. A very subtle display of the plating effect.



> I have to say, your results look A LOT like my tests so far in terms of quality and essence.


Can you share some pics? I would love to see the results of your tests


----------



## hell_fighter_8 (Oct 4, 2005)

*Pearl clearcoats*

Don't use clear pearl overcoat. It worked well in my test but when I sprayed the model, some area's got a thicker coat then others and instead of pearling the white, it yellowed the white. Luckly, it was only the upper saucer and not fully assembled.


----------



## Raist3001 (Oct 23, 2003)

Thanks for the warning Hell Fighter.


----------



## ClubTepes (Jul 31, 2002)

Raist3001 said:


> Can you share some pics? I would love to see the results of your tests


Well, if those are your TESTS,

Then I bow to your greatness.
At this point for me, photos probably wouldn't be that impressive.

I've just sprayed the 'extra' bottom hull part with a few different mixes of FASKOLOR pearl white and white. In different areas. 
essentially
1:1
2:1
3:1
Full pearl white.
I haven't done any type of aztec yet.

I'm going to order some stuff from WASCO right now and do similiar tests.
If I like that, then I'll do aztecs of both brands and then make a final decision.

Thanks for all the info.


----------



## JGG1701 (Nov 9, 2004)

4 outa 5 dentist reccomended these pearly whites!


----------



## Raist3001 (Oct 23, 2003)

ClubTepes said:


> Well, if those are your TESTS,
> 
> Then I bow to your greatness.
> At this point for me, photos probably wouldn't be that impressive.


Naaaa......my results are the combined efforts of all those whose brains I picked. 

Thanks for the kind words.


----------



## Treadwell (Aug 22, 2002)

Raist, what do you mean by the longer you allow the colors to sit? Prior to what? Sealing?

Thanks...


----------



## Raist3001 (Oct 23, 2003)

Treadwell said:


> Raist, what do you mean by the longer you allow the colors to sit? Prior to what? Sealing?
> 
> Thanks...


Yes, allow the paint to sit prior to sealing


----------



## neosporing (Feb 12, 2005)

Raist, did you use the black templates found over at culttvmans? Share your technique for removing the templates without pealing up or poking the paint underneath. I've done a search on this site and i can't find anyone experiencing any problems with the tempates at all. Over on another site, i've read many complaints about the templates being too sticky. I wondering if those templates and the ones being used around here are different? (less tacky) The people who had no sucess insisted that they let the paint cure for days before applying the templates...I'm asuming they primered...but i didn't ask..(i should) Furthermore, they said that they nicked their undercoat trying to remove the templates. Can you share your expert technique for safely removing templates?

thanks!


----------



## Raist3001 (Oct 23, 2003)

neosporing said:


> Raist, did you use the black templates found over at culttvmans? Share your technique for removing the templates without pealing up or poking the paint underneath. I've done a search on this site and i can't find anyone experiencing any problems with the tempates at all. Over on another site, i've read many complaints about the templates being too sticky. I wondering if those templates and the ones being used around here are different? (less tacky) The people who had no sucess insisted that they let the paint cure for days before applying the templates...I'm asuming they primered...but i didn't ask..(i should) Furthermore, they said that they nicked their undercoat trying to remove the templates. Can you share your expert technique for safely removing templates?
> 
> thanks!


Hi Neo 

I am not sure of any expert technique, but I can sure share with you my aztec process. I used the templates availabe from Aztec Dummies. I do believe Cult sells them. I first primed all my parts with 131S DuPont automotive acrylic lacquer primer. IMHO, one of the best primers to use. It can be laid down to a point that will not hide the most subtle and delicate of surface detail. I allow this to set for about a week. I then lay down my base coat. Testors Acrylic flat white. I allow this to set for another week. I then begin to apply my templates. I have never found the need to make them less tacky in the least. I apply them straight off the waxed paper. I do not apply any pressure to them to stick to the surface. I then spray my pearl color, wait a good 15-20 minutes, and then begin to remove the templates. This is done very slowly and very carefully. Perhaps it is because I work so slowly that I have never had any issues with the templates removing any of my undercoating. I use my finger nail when ever I can, but I do at times use an exacto with the tip broken off for the more stubborn ones. 

I made my own templates for the secondary pattern which work just like the walker brass templates. I cut them out of thin styrene. 

Hope this helps


----------



## marc111 (Nov 10, 2005)

Raist,
When you laid down your secondary patterns, did you...
a) Lay each of your 4 secondary pattern templates on a particular pie wedge in turn and spray a different color when using each template? ie template 1 color blue follwed by template 2 color red etc all on the same pie wedge.
OR
b) Lay out a secondary template on a particular pie wedge and then spray different secondary colors on different areas of that particular template and then use a different template on the next pie wedge, etc? ie template 1 on wedge 1, spray areas with each of the 4 colors. Then template 2 on wedge 2, spray areas with each of the 4 colors, etc.

Thanks,
Mark


----------



## Raist3001 (Oct 23, 2003)

marc111 said:


> Raist,
> When you laid down your secondary patterns, did you...
> a) Lay each of your 4 secondary pattern templates on a particular pie wedge in turn and spray a different color when using each template? ie template 1 color blue follwed by template 2 color red etc all on the same pie wedge.
> OR
> ...


Hi Mark 

It was a copmbination of the two but mostly adhering to A).

I layed out a template on a particular pie wedge and sprayed one color, moved to the next wedge, layed down the template, sprayed the next color. Then I layed the second template over the already azteced wedged and sprayed a different color over that until I had 4 layors of patterns. This creates the overlapping panels that pearl and compliment each other, and what creates the 'sheen'.

Hope that helps


----------



## marc111 (Nov 10, 2005)

Thanks alot Raist. That was exactly the help I needed. I am going to try real hard to replicate your beautiful finish.

Mark


----------



## Raist3001 (Oct 23, 2003)

marc111 said:


> Thanks alot Raist. That was exactly the help I needed.


No problem, glad I could help 



> I am going to try real hard to replicate your beautiful finish.


That's kind of you to say. Please send me some photos when you get a chance. Would love to see your progress.

[/QUOTE]


----------



## ClubTepes (Jul 31, 2002)

Woo Hoo!

My order from WASCO showed up today.
I ordered 8oz. Pearl White, and White.
Then I also picked up a 4oz. of the irredescent blue.

I've got a part primered and I'll give it till the weekend then I start the next round of tests. If good, then I'll order some more of the irredecents.

Raist, those guys were very helpful, thanks for the info.
I talked to them about their 'sealer'. Apparently, its intended to seal/prime the fish/animal and not necessarily seal the paint afterwards. What was your experience?

I'm most curious as to how there blue performs.
I was pretty much ready to go with the FASKOLOR until I layed down their Blue.


----------



## Raist3001 (Oct 23, 2003)

ClubTepes said:


> Raist, those guys were very helpful, thanks for the info.
> I talked to them about their 'sealer'. Apparently, its intended to seal/prime the fish/animal and not necessarily seal the paint afterwards. What was your experience?


Yes, they are very pleasant to speak with. I did not use their sealer. I went to Michaels arts and crafts and purchased an acrylic gloss and flat sealer.


----------



## marc111 (Nov 10, 2005)

Raist,
A lighting question for you related to the Aztec finish. Have you per chance tried shining light through the aztec layers to see how the "lit from underneath" saucer spotlight effect might come through?


I will try to post some more pics soon. To be honest I have yet to piaint anything except the arboretum. I have been trying to get all of the detail corrections done. Including a set of partially open / fully closed hanger doors.

I am seriously thinking of adding a summary, here are all the innacuracy fixes in one spot section to the Inaccuracies thread.

Mark


----------



## Raist3001 (Oct 23, 2003)

marc111 said:


> Raist,
> A lighting question for you related to the Aztec finish. Have you per chance tried shining light through the aztec layers to see how the "lit from underneath" saucer spotlight effect might come through?


I have not performed this test yet. All parts would need to be opaqued from the inside as Raytheon has done. The only paint to touch the hull would be your base coat. Not sure how the templates would work in this situation. Even then, Ray is usinga ton of LEDS to make sure the light comes thru the base coat. I am eagerly awaiting his results.



> I am seriously thinking of adding a summary, here are all the innacuracy fixes in one spot section to the Inaccuracies thread.
> 
> Mark


Sounds good  Don't forget the neck/impulse area gap!!


----------



## ilbasso (Jun 7, 2006)

Tony, I'm a little confused and not sure I'm correctly reading your method of using the secondary wedges. Did you use one wedge repeatedly for each color (e.g., wedge #1 was used for gold only)? Or did you change colors each time you moved a wedge to the next location on the hull (e.g., wedge 1 is gold, then moved to the next location and used with blue, etc.)?


----------



## Raist3001 (Oct 23, 2003)

Ilbasso, I used a different color each time I moved to another wedge. I used one template for the first layer and changed color as I moved from wedge to wedge. I layed the second template down and sprayed a differenbt color than that which was currently on the wedge. I layed the 3rd and the forth and repeated. So each wedge contained the 4 primary iridecent colors that overlapped each other.


----------



## ilbasso (Jun 7, 2006)

I like this approach - every sector of the hull will look different!!


----------



## ClubTepes (Jul 31, 2002)

I did an initial test with the WASCO paints and my first impression is that they are freak'n close to the results I got with the FASKOLOR.

Not that thats a good or a bad thing. The base pearl white is almost interchangable, with the only difference being the FASKOLOR being more 'flat' in shean. (sp? Martin Sheen?)

The next thing I tested was the irredescent blue. Again the results were extremely similiar. On the downside, I got the same yellow hue when you look at the ir-blue 'off-axis'. Raist, did you encounter this effect? Might it fade after time? The FASKOLOR has not faded after a few weeks. Though, the yellow hue was not as intense as it was with the FASKOLOR.

As the base pearl white is still too intense and silver for my tastes, my next phase of testing will be to duplicate some of the ratio mixes that I did with the FASKOLOR stuff and see if the results are the same.


----------



## Raist3001 (Oct 23, 2003)

> On the downside, I got the same yellow hue when you look at the ir-blue 'off-axis'. Raist, did you encounter this effect? Might it fade after time?


I honestly never saw any yellow hue off axis. I had to check again to make sure. I allow the colors to dry for at least a week. 



> As the base pearl white is still too intense and silver for my tastes


Let the color dry for a period of time. The longer it sits, the less intensive it becomes.

I would be interested in testing with the FASKOLOR colors. Do you have a link to them? What colors did you choose?


----------



## ClubTepes (Jul 31, 2002)

Raist3001 said:


> I honestly never saw any yellow hue off axis. I had to check again to make sure. I allow the colors to dry for at least a week.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Interesting on the yellow......I wonder if I'm sraying it a little heavy getting that hue.
If you have it, its hard to miss, a little unsightly.

The FASKOLOR is available at most hobby shops that handle RC cars. 
I think Parma makes it. Do a search and I'm sure you'll find it.

The colors I tested in FASKOLOR were.
Pearl white.
White
'FASCHANGE' Blue.
I did different ratio mixes including mixing the blue into a P/W mix.
It deadened the hue a little, but of course minimalized the ir effect of the blue
(which in itself was interesting).


----------



## ClubTepes (Jul 31, 2002)

Well, after a heck of a lot of testing, I think I'm going to stick with the FASKOLOR product.

I ordered the WASCO stuff, and its also a fine product and I think things simply come down to astechtics (I know I totally botched the spelling of that word).

What did it for me was some of the mixes that I did.
In order for me to achieve the IR Blue effect that I wanted, I mixed some IR Blue with the P.W. and straight white.

For some reason the WASCO mix (same porportions) totally killed the IR effect from the blue.

I'm still perplexed Raist that you say you don't have any off-axis yellow effect from the IR Blue.


----------



## Raist3001 (Oct 23, 2003)

ClubTepes said:


> I'm still perplexed Raist that you say you don't have any off-axis yellow effect from the IR Blue.


OK, so was I so I ran a few tests. What I found is that the WASCO colors must be sprayed in thin layers, or a fine mist. When I sprayed more than a fine mist, I saw the off axis yellow you have been talking about. However, when sprayed in a fine mists, there is no off axis yellow.


----------



## idman (Apr 11, 2004)

i'm gonna use what Paul Newitt suggested Liqui-tex Irridescent White


----------



## ClubTepes (Jul 31, 2002)

idman said:


> i'm gonna use what Paul Newitt suggested Liqui-tex Irridescent White


Raist thanks for verifying that I'm not crazy, though maybe a little heavy handed on the ole' airbrush.

When I sprayed mists, I was a little dissatisfied with the eveness of the coats.
Again it can just be me.

idman, where do you get your stuff and have you done any tests yet?

If not, I wouldn't suggest going by any one persons suggestions.
It is such a subjective look.
I've bought every pearl white I could find (and I'd try this one too) before I found just the right look.

I still feel that the FASKOLOR and the WASCO stuff are the best I've seen.


----------



## Raist3001 (Oct 23, 2003)

ClubTepes said:


> Raist thanks for verifying that I'm not crazy, though maybe a little heavy handed on the ole' airbrush.


No problem. The issue was really bothering about the colors. 



> I still feel that the FASKOLOR and the WASCO stuff are the best I've seen.


These were created using PEARL-EX interference powders. The off axis yellow is present as well in these powders. I went a bit heavy to test. As in the WASCO paints, fine mists will not leave the off axis yellow. I did not allow the paint to dry as long as I normally would, and as such, when removing the templates, I lifted some paint. Good thing this is only a TEST. What I love about these colors is that there are no metallic flakes to be seen. Once mixed with a medium, the colors spray on as flat. And because they are interference colors, they flop between two colors. Quit gorgeous really. I do believe that I like these colors BETTER than the WASCO paint.


----------



## Roguepink (Sep 18, 2003)

Oy... that yellow is jarring.

Just to throw some more ideas in the mix, I'm using a pearl white from an art supply store. It's acryllic, very thick, so needs a large paint/thinner ratio. It thins beautifully with denatured alchohol. Vodka might work, too, but the Mythbusters will have to try vodka as a paint thinner first on the next vodka special.

I digress.

I don't have the paint name immediately handy, though will by lunchtime.

By mixing in transparent acryllic colors, I can get any tint I need. What you see is a bit dark, bad lighting, but is white pearl aztec over gloss white lacquer. The off pattern is pearl white mixed with a drop of clear blue acryllic.


----------



## Raist3001 (Oct 23, 2003)

Rogue, I said it before and I'll say it again, that is simply drop dead gorgeous!! 

I would love to know the pearl paint you used.



> Oy... that yellow is jarring.


I agree. Keep in mind though that I purposely went a bit heavy with the brush in areas to see if the off axis yellow would be present. You do not see any off axis yellow in my saucer tests.



















I've used many different paint mixes and paint brands and I have used Artists acrylic colors. So far any time I have become a bit heavy handed with the brush, I have gotten the off axis yellow. I thought the WASCO paint was different until I realized I was being conservative with my passes.


----------



## Roguepink (Sep 18, 2003)

Yeah, your saucer paint work is amazing. So, go light on the coats, plenty of time to dry, peel masks carefully.

Update: my paint is Lumiere by Jacquard, #568 White Pearl. Nice thing is with the high alcohol thinner/paint ratio, it dries in just a couple of minutes, enough to pull and move the mask. I can do an entire saucer layer in about an hour.


----------



## Raist3001 (Oct 23, 2003)

Thanks Rogue, I'm going to my local artists paint supplier and pick up Lumiere by Jacquard and run some tests. The Pearl-EX interference powders I purchased are also by Jacquard. They should work quite nicely with the pearl paint. 

I don't want to make it seem as if I am turned off by the WASCO colors. I love them. I guess I am always looking at new ways to accomplish things.


----------



## hell_fighter_8 (Oct 4, 2005)

Raist3001 said:


> Thanks Rogue, I'm going to my local artists paint supplier and pick up Lumiere by Jacquard and run some tests. The Pearl-EX interference powders I purchased are also by Jacquard. They should work quite nicely with the pearl paint.


I'm just curious how the Lumiere came out? (Its one of the ones I've been looking at online)

Are the Wasco's and/or faskolor's transparent?

Has anyone tried any automotive paints or tried painting theirs the way Olsen did?


----------



## Raist3001 (Oct 23, 2003)

http://www.enterprisecreations.com/Page6.html

Overall, I really like how the pearl powders did in my tests. The WASCO colors are very transparent. And once you hit it with flat, they become virtually transparent.


----------



## marc111 (Nov 10, 2005)

Tony,
Could you clarify something for us please.
"The WASCO colors are very transparent. And once you hit it with flat, they become virtually transparent." 

Do you mean they become virtually transparent after the flat in a good way as in they are still very effective at the effect. OR Do you mean they become very transparent and loose the effect because they can hardly be seen??

Thanks.

P.S. Did you ever find the time to try the Lumiere paints?

Thanks,
Mark


----------



## Raist3001 (Oct 23, 2003)

Hi Marc, sorry for the confusion. I did mean transparent in a good way. The WASCO colors are transparent when viewed head on. Once you seal with flat, they become virtually transparent but still sheen beautifully in the right light.

The last tests I did http://www.enterprisecreations.com/Page6.html used the Lumiere pearl powders. I really liked them.


----------

