# westworld hovercraft



## martinacm (Oct 2, 2007)

hi guys , just wondered if anyone has got any info on the hovercraft/ground effect vehicle from westworld, cant seem to find much on the web only a few blurry screencaps. cheers!!


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## geino (May 9, 2006)

This might help you - Westworld is available on DVD. A quick search shows it is about $15 on Amazon. The DVD might help you unless all they did was transfer it straight to DVD without doing any cleanup.


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

I have some frame grabs somebody posted a while back on my other computer but they do not really help much. This craft, like the exterior of Delos, they tried very hard avoid showing clearly.


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## geino (May 9, 2006)

In other words, the cheap way out! :freak:


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

Got in one try.
They did a lot of creative cost cuts in that film- the entry corridor was widened and became the robot repair facility, that sort of thing.
The sequel had a bigger budget but most of that was wasted.


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## RB (Jul 29, 1998)

The novelization for the film is actually mostly a "making of" book. I loved the movie as a kid and was shocked that Crichton was enormously frustrated with it, about ready to call it quits after the first assembly. I'm glad he stuck with it. That book is here someplace, I doubt it has much info on the Delos shuttle but if I find the book I'll look. Could swear I've seen a shot of that miniature _somewhere _on the internets...


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## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

Interesting thread regarding an obscure but somehow memorable vehicle.

When Westworld made its network television premier in the mid-70's the opening title sequence featured an insert FX shot of the hovercraft miniature streaking into, and then away from, camera -- a shot which did not appear in the theatrical release (probably because it was so terribly executed it even looked bad on TV). For years I've been trying to score a frame grab of of the aforementioned shot, but I've never had any luck.

HT member GKvfx recently organized a screening of the film, knows a couple of the FX guys who worked on the show, and may be able to offer additional info.

Gene, are you out there?...

"Quick Robin, activate the Geek Signal! This is a job for GeekMan!"


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## GKvfx (May 30, 2008)

Dunna nunna nunna, Geek MAN!

"My god, old chum, they're talking about an obscure model from the 70's"

"Twiggy?"

"Not quite. It's the Hovercraft from Westworld."

Apart from my witty retort to Carson, I can't offer anything up. They guys I know were in charge of the CG stuff, and had nothing to do with either the hovercraft work nor the solitary matte painting in the movie. 

Ask Greg Jein the next time we see him?

Gene


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## martinacm (Oct 2, 2007)

many thanks for the replies , sure would be nice if some images were available somewhere , it would make an exellent scratchbuild project. managed to get a copy of the film and did a few screen grabs but the shots are somewhat vague, never mind , on with the search!!


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

If it is not shown then come up with something new and interesting- just keep the parts you do see in the film where they should be.
I think what you create would probably be better than what they did anyway...


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## Joe Brown (Nov 16, 1999)

This vehicle had come up in a scratchbuilding thread over on Starship Modeler a few months ago; I made the best screengrabs that I could get:
http://www.picturetrail.com/sfx/album/view/19423853


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## lunadude (Oct 21, 2006)

*DVD Screencaps*

Here are my screencap assemblages, from the DVD. I dug through a "making of" disk, but didn't find anything else.


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## X15-A2 (Jan 21, 2004)

I could have sworn that there was a shot where you could see the row triangular windows along the side of the main hull, just above the wing. I've seen this model, it was about 24 inches or so across as I recall. Not very big for a filming miniature.


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## WarpCore Breach (Apr 27, 2005)

That almost looks like the Reliant weapons pod and rollbar! :freak:


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## martinacm (Oct 2, 2007)

superb screencaps , thank you guys very much. will post pics of my small study model as soon as its ready .


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## modeleers (Sep 8, 2007)

I think I know where this model is. I will try & get you some pics & some size & shape measurements.


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## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

Wow, that would be great.

Question for you (or for X15, if he's still out there): Was the Westworld hovercraft model by any chance built by the same fellow who built the Invaders UFO?


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## lunadude (Oct 21, 2006)

*Sketch*

Here is a rough sketch of the hovercraft.


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## thepixelpusher (Jan 31, 2009)

Carson Dyle said:


> Wow, that would be great.
> 
> Question for you (or for X15, if he's still out there): Was the Westworld hovercraft model by any chance built by the same fellow who built the Invaders UFO?


Production Models Shop did the Invaders Saucer. They shut down in the early 70's.


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## kdaracal (Jan 24, 2009)

I remember the sequences with the hovercraft ride being very effective and "commercial" liner-ish. Like a real plane ride. Perhaps it's my kid memory.


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## monroville (Jan 21, 2015)

I know it's been a few years, but are there any updates on any more information on the WESTWORLD hovercraft? It would be nice even if someone could post some screen caps of the prop (if it still exists).


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## martinacm (Oct 2, 2007)

gave up on this one quite a while back, seems to be as an obscure a prop as the 1967 quatermass and the pit spacecraft which again i seem to have hit a brick wall with.
still maybe someone in the know will stumble across these forums and supply us with all the relevent details/plans/schematics etc (fingers crossed)


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## thepixelpusher (Jan 31, 2009)

Carson Dyle said:


> Wow, that would be great.
> 
> Question for you (or for X15, if he's still out there): Was the Westworld hovercraft model by any chance built by the same fellow who built the Invaders UFO?


Just to add Mel Keys built The Invaders saucer. He was at Productions Model Shop in Burbank, CA. The guy that did the Westworld craft was someone else.


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## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

Thanks.


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## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

You know, there was a lot of stuff done during the 'transition' years of the '70s, as the Major Studios fell apart, discarding their departments in favor of independent contractors, where some very interesting things came into being with nothing more than a general 'effects by' credit but that was usually the house or the 'main man', not a specific on who built what. MGM one of the Majors that tried to pretend they still had the warehouse and the construction yard and the talent to make things in house.

As to the hovercraft, my gut insists it was the 'go to' guy, Greg Jein. I have zero proof other than it just kinda sorta has the 'look' of some of his other stuff.


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## GKvfx (May 30, 2008)

Steve H said:


> ........As to the hovercraft, my gut insists it was the 'go to' guy, Greg Jein. I have zero proof other than it just kinda sorta has the 'look' of some of his other stuff.



I'm pretty sure I've talked to Greg and he said it wasn't his work. I'll ping him again.

Gene


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## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

GKvfx said:


> I'm pretty sure I've talked to Greg and he said it wasn't his work. I'll ping him again.
> 
> Gene


I must have skimmed over that, so sorry for that. But there were a number of small effects shops springing up in the wake of the Fall of the Majors. I can't remember them all anymore. Jim Danforth (sp?) was one, Robert Abel another, Dykstra did stuff for Universal I seem to recall. 

Earth II, Genesis II, Man From Atlantis all had model work. No idea who did it. Heck, Supertrain. That was fairly impressive for a TV show. 

Blah blah clearly losing my mind.


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## lunadude (Oct 21, 2006)

*Yule Brynner - Gunslinger*

*A Mechanized Sculpture of Yul Brynner as the ‘Westworld’ Gunslinger Robot at Monsterpalooza*

http://laughingsquid.com/a-mechaniz...westworld-gunslinger-robot-at-monsterpalooza/


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## Highlighter (Aug 8, 2011)

*Westworld Hovercraft*

Apparently the Production Model Shop built it and the scenes were filmed in Thol "Si" Simonson's driveway in Scottsdale, Az.

Thol Simonson also did many of the props, like the guns etc., for "The Invaders" uncredited.


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## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

Resurrecting this thread because of an interesting photo that was forwarded to me. As you can see below, the original Delos Shuttle still exists, as does the original Invaders saucer...



http://www.dailybreeze.com/science/...-depend-on-scale-models-to-get-message-across


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## lunadude (Oct 21, 2006)

Carson Dyle said:


> Resurrecting this thread because of an interesting photo that was forwarded to me. As you can see below, the original Delos Shuttle still exists, as does the original Invaders saucer...
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.dailybreeze.com/science/...-depend-on-scale-models-to-get-message-across


WOW! Great find after all these years!
http://www.hobbytalk.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/


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## lunadude (Oct 21, 2006)

Someone PLEASE go visit Isao Hirai and do a photo survey of the hovercraft!


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## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

While you're at it, a careful photo study and complete measurements of the Invaders saucer wouldn't be amiss. Paging Gary K, Mr. Gary K, white phone please... 

(naaa, he's busy. Mr. Shaw would do it right but maybe these aren't his meat, soooo)


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## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

lunadude said:


> Someone PLEASE go visit Isao Hirai and do a photo survey of the hovercraft!


It's tricky. Mr. Hirai values his privacy. I'm frankly amazed he agreed to be featured in the Daily Breeze.

Part of the problem is he builds a lot of models for the defense industry, and for that reason he's not too crazy about letting strangers into his shop. And he is NOT interested in selling his models.

A friend was able to take some shots of the hovercraft and saucer. I'll see if I can talk him into posting them here.


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## Highlighter (Aug 8, 2011)

Nice find, Carson, are the Invaders saucer and Westworld models the originals? They look like it.

Re-read you thread and you actually said they're the originals, didn't see that first time around -- very cool! I'm so glad he's preserved them so well all this time!


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## thepixelpusher (Jan 31, 2009)

Mel Keys of Productions Model Shop (Burbank, CA) was the original model maker for the saucer not Isao Hirai.


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## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

thepixelpusher said:


> Mel Keys of Productions Model Shop (Burbank, CA) was the original model maker for the saucer not Isao Hirai.


As may be, and that's important, but what seems to be true now is that Hirai appears to have the saucer currently (or is key to the access of same) and it's right there RIGHT THERE waiting to be really examined. 

What I might suggest, for anyone brave enough and able and with the kind of credentials that would give them an introduction, is saying something like this:

"I know this may seem difficult and intrusive, and I apologize in advance, but... Nostalgia is a powerful thing, even a driving force in this day and age of instant information. Many things, TV shows, Movies, fuel that nostalgia but there are always gaps in true knowledge. Back in the '60s nobody really cared about who built what, how an effect was done, the time and effort and craft that went into something thought of as 'just another TV series to work on and make a paycheck'. Now, people wish to thank those, show appreciation, celebrate. They wish to acknowledge those makers of magic and their creations. 

It's a difficult and complex thing to do, because so much time has passed, so many creators have passed away, so much was undocumented, and so many myths and urban legends came into being that 'process' has actually become a kind of mystery. Some engage in a kind of archeology, trying to decipher the truth of how a thing was done, how a thing was built, how a thing was worked- from tattered shards and faded film. You have several filming miniatures here, models that have NEVER been clearly seen or documented. I would like to talk to you about them, about your memories, about your craft and technique. I would like to photograph them. It would be a shame for time to pass and for all this to be forgotten. Please allow this."

I'm sure that can be made better but hey, maybe it'll get someone to actually do it, hah?


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## lunadude (Oct 21, 2006)

Steve, you have a 'silver tongue'.


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## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

thepixelpusher said:


> Mel Keys of Productions Model Shop (Burbank, CA) was the original model maker for the saucer not Isao Hirai.


Mel Keys may have had some assistance. It is, or used to be, a rather collaborative craft, and work is, or used to be, sub-contracted on a regular basis.

I mean, for may years Matt Jefferies was credited with having designed the Shuttlecraft Galileo. As it happens, he designed the livery markings, interior, and added the engine pods. The main body was designed by others.

Hopefully we'll be able to get Mr. Hirai's side of the story.


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## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

lunadude said:


> Steve, you have a 'silver tongue'.


Naw, somebody else could say that in less words and it would sound better. I think a LOT would depend on 'reading' Mr. Hirai's body language and having the wits to modify the 'pitch' to keep positive feelings in play. 

Because it would be a sales job, no doubt about it. 

I've read any number of articles about prop and model makers of the day and there's never been any real consistent 'atmosphere'. Some acted ashamed to be working on some shows, some took credit for others because that's how it was done in the studio system, some were so humble it seemed like pulling teeth to get them to say "yes I built that" and of course some act like what they did was GOVERNMENT TOP SECRET because of the magic of cinema special effects. It really wasn't until Star Wars that effects people became more open and proud and actually thrilled to be telling the world at large about what they did and the challenges they faced during production. 

Or maybe to rephrase that, it wasn't until Star Wars that discussions of Effects work got press coverage other than in articles in American Cinematographer and other 'trade' publications. 

And it could be Mr. Hirai has never actually been asked about his work and all that and he'd be thrilled to tell stories and show things off. 

And it could be as simple as nobody has had money to offer for that discussion. 

Who can say?


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## thepixelpusher (Jan 31, 2009)

I spoke with Richard Datin (before his death) and Mel Keys and can assure you Hirai had nothing to do with the saucer, not even subcontracting. The curious thing is Hirai's saucer does not have the inscribed leg lines under the saucer and inside lighting the original had.


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## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

The landing legs are missing from the FX miniature hanging in Hirai's shop. The central light fixture is present, but the lens is missing. The small bulbs surrounding the central light are present, but these may have been replaced at some point.


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## thepixelpusher (Jan 31, 2009)

No there were never legs on the saucer model. That was alway FX compositing.

Just inscribed lines on the bottom. Don't want to go off topic on this thread though since it's the Westworld Hovercraft, but I assure you Isao was never part of the Invaders model production.


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## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

thepixelpusher said:


> No there were never legs on the saucer model.


Yeah, that's consistent with the Isao's model. It's clearly vintage, made of fiberglass, with (I assume) some sort of wooden armature. The upper "lights" are not actually lights, consistent with what we know of the FX miniature. Greg Jein has inspected the model and is of the opinion that's it's the original FX miniature from the show.

FWIW.

Isao says he built the model, but as I stated earlier, it would be unusual for one person to have built an FX miniature. It's a collaborative process, and if Isao's model is in fact the original, it stands to reason he was somehow involved in its creation. 

One thing that's not in dispute is the Delos Shuttle. The one hanging in Isao's shop is absolutely the miniature that was photographed for the film.


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## thepixelpusher (Jan 31, 2009)

No Isao didn't say he built the model. I talked to Isao personally. I have Mel Keys images of Mel making the saucer model. Isao is a talented person but was not involved with the making of the saucer model.


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

It doesn't matter who built the freak'n saucer!
The important thing is tbat the saucer, and the Delos hovercraft, have been found.


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## thepixelpusher (Jan 31, 2009)

Would the Delos Hovercraft studio model have had a mount on the middle bottom since it was shown docked in the movie on the stand/departing structure?

Example:


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## GKvfx (May 30, 2008)

This is the article that tipped me off to Mr. Hirai's work - http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jul/07/local/la-me-0707-challenger-memorial-20110707

I came across it a couple of years ago (here, I believe). Since his shop is somewhat local, I went down there to see if he was willing to talk. I wound up talking to him on the phone a couple of time and later visiting the shop. Yes, the models were there, hanging from the ceiling.

Even though we chatted and he was accommodating, I can't say he was really enthusiastic about it. I just don't think it is in his nature to talk about his work. Also, there is a bit of an age and language issue that makes having a casual conversation more work (more formal, in other words). He has been bugged in the past about the movie models and his willingness to talk may just have been the fact that I caught him on a slow day. We'll see if I can get him to open up more. As luck would have it there's a "six degrees of separation" with some mutual friends. Tenuous, but it's something to talk about.

I didn't get much detail on the Invaders saucer. From what I saw in person, it matches the Mel Keys 'hat' photo seen in the other thread. The detail on the domes and the plate underneath was very simplistic. And no trace of the landing gear - either the parts or outlines. Not sure of the circumstances of how he came by the thing, or if it is even "the" model, but has all the characteristics I'd expect of a 50 year old fiberglass model.

The Westworld hovercraft is relatively simple in shape and construction. Made out of balsa. No detail in the cockpit (it's just painted on). Still in pretty good shape considering its age. Some minor chips and warpage where the balsa sheets meet the stringers/formers. He mentioned that a smaller one was made for the shots where it docked on that pedestal.

He also has an SST model from a bad "Airport"-style TV movie. That appeared to be nothing more than a manufacturers model that was repurposed. (His isn't painted.)

All of the models don't seem to have anything in the way of armatures or mounts. At least not what I would expect for filming miniatures. The craftsmanship of his aerospace models is superb. Very clean. 

Like I mentioned before, I'll contact him again and see if he will make time for a more formal documentation. But based on past experiences with guys like this, don't expect him to remember everything with the detail (and exuberance) that we model geeks crave. At this point, it's just nice to know that his shop is still there and he continues the work. In this town, and after helping Grant McCune Design close THEIR doors last month, that there is even a place like this operating is a miracle.

Gene


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## thepixelpusher (Jan 31, 2009)

Do we have any reference with 2 Delos hovercraft studio models?

If there is another smaller one, anyone know where that one is? or if it hit auction.


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## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

I believe the only time we see the smaller model on screen is in the video image where the shuttle is seen in a long-shot alongside the big geodesic dome (presumedly Delos). The dome, or at least part of the dome, appears to have been built as a miniature as well.


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## JeffBond (Dec 9, 2013)

Yeah, I would be surprised if the smaller model was used in the docking shot since that's the most convincing miniature shot in the movie! 
The absence of landing gear on the Invaders saucer would explain why they always did those shots with obvious separation between the saucer and the landing gear--they had to construct the landing gear full size because the model was never equipped with any.


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## thepixelpusher (Jan 31, 2009)

Richard Baker said:


> It doesn't matter who built the freak'n saucer!
> The important thing is tbat the saucer, and the Delos hovercraft, have been found.


I think it matters. When I talked to Mel he told me everyone was on vacation, at Productions Model Shop that week, and he made the mold and saucer pull himself. Isao Hirai was never involved at any time, ever.

Here's an recently found picture of the making of the original Star Trek Enterprise with StarTrekHistory.com from Mel. The process of making The Invaders saucer mold was done the same way.










Tom


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## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

Fantastic picture! Stupid technical point of order, isn't that properly a 'buck' for the vac-form draw?

And yes I understand, for the majority of people seeing that picture 'mold' is easier to comprehend.


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## Highlighter (Aug 8, 2011)

*Westworld Ship*

Another angle of the Westworld ship hanging in Isao Hirai's shop. Look's like the wings may have warped a bit.


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## Highlighter (Aug 8, 2011)

*West by West World*

Nice pic of the Delos shuttle, clearer on some of the details.


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

That's a great picture- thanks!

For the life of me, I cannot figure out why this craft is referred to as a 'hovercraft'- it shares no physical characteristics of one. It does resemble some aquatic craft that use air trapped underneath to raise out of the water reducing friction, but those still depend on contact with water


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## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

Yeah, it's using ground effect like that Soviet thing. When that thing is under weigh it's actually out of the water. But 'ground effect low level flight skimming on a compression wave' is hard to get across, hence 'hovercraft'.


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