# afx gearplate triks/mods



## joegri

hey tuners i,ve been playin with afx pan cars recently and noticed that the clustergear area seems to be a weak spot in the drivetrain. if you look at some you have it seems the cluster combo on most kinda floats and moves around on the shaft/rivette. i did see some of the old racer pans have replaced that shaft with a nut n bolt maybe a thin spacer too. i don,t for sure. has anybody tried this mod ? what size hardware is used and does it work good or just hunt for n.o.s. plate? check the pic and you,ll see this build will have a hotrod yellowjacket arm and beefy mags. witch translates to alot of power going to the rear wheels. i,m just trying to head off any gear slip and getting the power to the rears. anybody know bout this trik? thanx joe g


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## ruralradio

Hi Joe. the size is 0-80, same as most threaded axles. I prefered brass hex head, some used slotted pan head, had to make sure O.D. of washer dropped into the gear. Rivets in all my cars right now.


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## joegri

*that was quick!!*

thanx so much rural for the reply. i did see that terry(riggenracer) flynn has some pics on the riggen site of this mod and it really got my interest.spect i,ll email him and see if he,ll sell me a couple of the tiny nut/bolts that do this. in the mean time i have some new plates comming from jag hobbies. as soon as i get my order for jag i,ll start assembling this pan. i kinda dont like to do anything till i get all of the parts on hand. the only thing i hav,nt decieded onn is a body! guess i,ll go with a lexan but i want to experiment with a tyco longnose porsche. i think i have 1 somewhere in a box..... hummmm where did i put that box? these pans sure are alot of fun to build!!


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## Boosted-Z71

I am not a big fan of something spinning against screw threads, as a shaft. I see wear issues on the gear or screw down the road, and unless your drilling out the gear to fit the screw not sure where the gain is in the mod, cant imagine it being any better gear to gear. I do agree the rivet they use is pretty cheesy. 

What arm are you putting in there? Looks like a custom wind.

Good looking pan as well!

Boosted


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## smalltime

If you look at the screw that is provided, you will see it is a flat head machine screw. The bearing surface of this type of arrangement would be the 82 degree bottom side of the screw head. Not the threaded portion. Actually, I drill out the original hole to around .078, just to make sure there is no interference.

If you go to the local hardware store and purchase a hand powered screw counter-sink, you can apply this to the top side of your cluster gear. (It now looks like a shallow counter bore)

There are two advantages to this:

#1 you have the ability to CHANGE the cluster gear easily. Simply unscrew and replace.

#2 depending on how tight you screw the thing down, you can adjust the mesh, WHILE it's running. (big advantage)


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## copperhead71

My fastest afx cars period (that were built by a ex pan racer/builder)...all have the screw in the back,it improves the car for sure!do it.....do it NOW!!!! i think he said he got these screws from model trains or hobby stores?


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## copperhead71

*opps*

i'll ask him tomorrow!


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## Boosted-Z71

Now that I like, not what I thought at all from the description, Thanks Copperhead71

Boosted


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## joegri

*good stuff !!*

thanx so much smalltime n copper. thanx for posting pics of the slothead cluster. that looks much easier than what i saw on the riggen site. and boosted the arm pictured is a yellowjacket arm that is if i remember it,s 5 ohm and balanced n trued ! now i get all messed up with gear selection... meaning should i use a plastic idler or brass? i guess some testing will tell me.


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## cwbam

Great Stuff 
Nice Armature!! tjetsgrig !!
Great photos Copperhead!
anymore photos? possibly of an open chassis?


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## Grandcheapskate

I'm missing something here. What holds the screw in place?

Thanks...Joe


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## wheelszk

Ya, how about a picture of the underside of the chassis.


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## copperhead71

In regards to the screws,he said they just screw in!The screws that work perfectly are from walthers ho trains.


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## JVerb

I use a 2-56 panhead and thread the hole with a tap. Then open up the cluster gear with a drill so that it spins on the screw. Adjust the screw until the gears feel right and you are good to go. 

Peace
Verb


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## brownie374

Verb,bring a couple of those screws tonight to do a demonstration .


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## JVerb

The reason for the 2-56 screw was because I didn't have any 0-80 screws handy. It's the same screw size that alot of our group have been using for the body post.

Peace,
Verb


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## smalltime

Grandcheapskate said:


> I'm missing something here. What holds the screw in place?
> 
> Thanks...Joe


With the proper sized screw, (I believe 1-72) there's no need to actually tap the hole. The screw roll forms the threads, and in the process creates a detent for the screw. Kind of like an Aircraft locking nut, in reverse.

The one thing I did fail to mention before is the fact that you need to be very careful when it comes to the bottom of the plate. The screw can protrude out the bottom, and it will hit the axle if it does.This can be very hard to diagnose.

I simply screw it down as far as I can, and file the screw flush with the bottom. If you use a brass machine screw, this is very easy


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## slotking

good info
thanks


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## joegri

*alot of info to consume!*

wow you guyz thanx for all who chimed in. now i,m really in a tizzy cuz i dont have any of the said screws . these screws that you,re talkin bout i spect that you cant get them at your basic hardware store? so i guess i gotta get a micro mark book and look,em up.better still will any of you guys sell me a few? or maybe i can trade some stuff? i hav,nt touched the chassis since i posted seems work is getting in the way. i,m thinkin sunday i can play again.


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## joegri

*jw,s have them !!*

got up this mornin thinkin bout those screws and found them on the jw,s site!! i need to place an order anyway. i just dig bumpin around that site!!


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## Boosted-Z71

Are they #2-56 or are they #1? Either can be bought from McMaster Carr.

Boosted


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## joegri

boosted it does,nt say what the size is. just says to use to replace rivett in afx cluster gear. you get 4 screws for 1.95 4 should be enough for me to tell if they,re gonna work or not! maybe drop n loose 1 or 2 !!!


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## copperhead71

i'm not sure of these screws size but they work perfectly!


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## Mexkilbee

in the HO train section of hobby store they should have Kadee Couplers, Kadee has packaged a Tap, Clearence Drill, and Tap Drill, in 2-56 and 2-72, hobby store should also have the screws. either in Walther's Hardware or Hob-Bits packages. I use a countersink bit on top of cluster gear so screw lays in flush. (countersink bit i got for doing guide pins on t-jets). a little super glue on threads to "Lock" screw is a good idea as i have had them tighten up during races. (rotation of gear tightens screw rather than loosining as most things).


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## Grandcheapskate

Just read through this entire thread and the modification looks enticing. Problem is - how do you remove the existing rivet without breaking anything?

Thanks...Joe


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## lbishov

Joegri --- where did you get the handling pan on that car? Who makes it and is it available anywhere?
Thanks,
Larry


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## akahollywood

This has been a great, very informative thread. After testing all the various sizes mentioned, I have found that the 0-80 machine screw is just the ticket. I found a source, but the lowest quantity available was way more than I'll ever need. See the Swap & Sell section if you want to get some.


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## Grandcheapskate

So how does one remove the existing rivet without breaking the gear or gear plate?

Thanks...Joe


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## akahollywood

It is not difficult. I have a pinion removal tool [from SCM] that I use to gently tap the rivet out from the underside of the gearplate. A piece of .047 piano wire cut to 1"-1.5" long also does the trick. Simply place the gearplate upside down on a small cap, then position the piano wire on the rivet and use a small jewelry hammer or even a pair of pliers to tap it gently. The rivet should push out pretty easily, at least it has in my experience. Hope that helps.


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## Grandcheapskate

akahollywood said:


> It is not difficult. I have a pinion removal tool [from SCM] that I use to gently tap the rivet out from the underside of the gearplate. A piece of .047 piano wire cut to 1"-1.5" long also does the trick. Simply place the gearplate upside down on a small cap, then position the piano wire on the rivet and use a small jewelry hammer or even a pair of pliers to tap it gently. The rivet should push out pretty easily, at least it has in my experience. Hope that helps.


Thanks. I'll try this the next time I get a gear plate with a tight or broken rear gear.

Joe


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## oneredz

Adding to this ... I replaced the trashy rivets on my 4gear chassis cars with #0-80 phillips flat head screws. 3/16 length is what i used, but 7/32 would probably get more bite on the plastic. the angled underside of the head adds minimal drag to the gear.

As far as rivet removal, just use a pin vise and go slow cutting out as much of the mushroom area, then filing and chipping off the rest of the mushroomed head part. Once done, the rivet should just slide out the top.


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## joegri

after seeing chappy,s pan chassis build i wanted to bring this back to the top. i hav,nt performed this mod but , i do have the fixins. could be time for a bench clearing brawl and make another pan chassis.


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## slotking

I also used to keep the back gear down another way
we ran custom arms and made a lot power.

Pics are here: http://ho-tips.net/showthread.php?tid=350

if there a problem with me posting the link, let know I will remove it.


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## Crimnick

slotking said:


> I also used to keep the back gear down another way
> we ran custom arms and made a lot power.
> 
> Pics are here: http://ho-tips.net/showthread.php?tid=350
> 
> if there a problem with me posting the link, let know I will remove it.


I wouldn't worry about links...as far as I know we are still allowed to share information....unlike another site we all know of....

Hell I couldn't even post MY OWN PICTURES over there because they were hosted here first....

And of course enforcement of said other sites policy seem to be selective....:freak:


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## GoodwrenchIntim

Crimnick said:


> I wouldn't worry about links...as far as I know we are still allowed to share information....unlike another site we all know of....
> 
> Hell I couldn't even post MY OWN PICTURES over there because they were hosted here first....
> 
> And of course enforcement of said other sites policy seem to be selective....:freak:


Your not kidding there, post a link and it gets edited out and told we dont allow links to other site. WTF really. Seems childish if you ask me


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## slotking

thanks

forgot to say
the pic is the 4th 1 down


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## slotking

I was hoping they (other BB) would be more for allowing slot cars folks to help each other, but with their draconian ways, it seems that is not their goal.

try to add a link to a vendor to help others, and NO WAY unless that vendor pays money.

BTW
the other BB owner did yell at me on innocent post because as he said to me his job was to protect nico


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## chappy2

Slot King thanks for the link, the brass builds pictured are cool, for sure. I will have to try the back end mod on the next one.

Chappy


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## GoodwrenchIntim

Deane is poison to the hobby. At least someone here was smart enough to ban him


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## slotking

yes he is, but fun to yank his chain! LOL



> the brass builds pictured are cool


I wish I could show the insides of 1 of the cars. It was built by Jeff Eve, and it a marvelous work of wonder.

he has brass on the inside of the motor box.
the car handles like a magnet car and it was fast.

when we race these cars, no one could even come close to him!
the only time he did not win was when there was a rare view of fire works! :dude:

he did that with the basic rule of the chassis had to stay kind of stock very little cutting and stock or stock replacement electrics.


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## GoodwrenchIntim

slotking said:


> yes he is, but fun to yank his chain! LOL


HAHA yes he is... I got a 10 point post warning from making fun of him LMAO


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## slotking

LOL

kind of sad when the BB owner say part of job is to protect kneeco.
that is what he told me


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