# What scale is the Moebius Chariot?



## starseeker2 (Jun 13, 2008)

I know the box says 1/24, but 1/24 scale figures and the robot, which does scale at almost perfectly 1/24, if his head does seem a bit in the retracted position, can all fit into the kit standing straight up. With headroom to spare. In Giants or Sea, when Don shoots the giant, his shoulders almost make it to the roof dome. In 5th Dimension, Johns head seems to be almost at the top side frame and Maureen, if she straightened, would easily bump her head on the roof. That roof can't be more than 5' to 5' 6" from the floor. 
I'm thinking the Moebius kit is about 1/20 scale. What do you all think? Any shots of people in or against the Chariot that maybe could be used for scaling?


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## kit-junkie (Apr 8, 2005)

I think it might be 4/96 scale, but I could be wrong...


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## BruceDownunder (Aug 25, 2008)

I thought the same, though it probably made sense to have a set for shooting interior scenes which may have been scaled down.

I thought the robot looked a little small compared to the Chariot, so I will opt to have him standing outside.

Cheers,

b


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

starseeker2 said:


> ...Any shots of people in or against the Chariot that maybe could be used for scaling?


Interesting. Probably best to check the episodes on DVD.


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## starseeker2 (Jun 13, 2008)

kit-junkie said:


> I think it might be 4/96 scale, but I could be wrong...


Let me try that. Carry the 4, round that up... that would make June Lockhart approx 600/96" tall. 6' 3". Hmmm...
Not that it would matter at all if you were making a stand-alone Chariot, but the model would look great in some kind of diorama. My 1/24 Tamiya figures look like a bunch of Hobbits inside it. Which brings me to another question: why do my 1/24 Tamiya figures all have hairy feet?
And a serious question: it's been a long time since I've been modeling last - are there any styrene cements out there for use on clear parts that are both very strong and that won't mar the clear parts? I thought that Testors made a canopy cement but I can't find it anywhere anymore.


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

The Robot never fit in the Chariot very well (hence they just sat his torso on a box in the back). You couldn't really stand sticking out of the top hatch without standing on top of something either.


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## starseeker2 (Jun 13, 2008)

So Don, Judy, Maureen, etc, are all standing on something? 
Check the end of 5th Dimension, where the Chariot finally pulls up to the alien spacecraft. Look at where everyone's heads are, compared to the roof.
Edit:


toyroy said:


> Interesting. Probably best to check the episodes on DVD.


Good idea. Added a couple shots below.


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## starseeker2 (Jun 13, 2008)

And since we know how tall the robot is, we can use him to size Judy, and we can use Judy to figure out... what was this thread about again?...


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## Dave Metzner (Jan 1, 1970)

The kit is intended to be 1/24 scale.
The size of the model is based on scale drawings that show key dimensions of the actual vehicle as:

O.A Length (bumper to bumper) @17 ft
O.A. height @10 ft 3 in
Height to top of roof @ 7 ft 10 1/2 in
Width of roof (Top) 7 ft 6 in
Body width (widest point) 8ft 3 in
Track width 8ft 5 in
O.A. vehicle width ( with ladders) 8 ft 9in

Dave


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## gareee (Jan 1, 1970)

So a tall man standing up's head comes almost to the top of the open side doors?

I always thought it was "larger then life" to me, being bigger then that.

Can someone measure on a completed kit, the distance from the table top to the top of that same open side door edge?


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## kit-junkie (Apr 8, 2005)

starseeker2 said:


> I thought that Testors made a canopy cement but I can't find it anywhere anymore.


Testors still makes a cement for clear parts. http://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/tes/tes3515c.htm


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## Dave Metzner (Jan 1, 1970)

ooops - wrong scale drawing! with wrong set of notes
Let's try these dimensions 
Kit OA length 222.4mm = 8 3/4 in = approx. 17 ft 6 In full size
Kit OA height 149.34mm = 5 7/8 in = 11ft 9in approx. full size
Kit ground to top of roof 111.2mm = 4 3/8 in =8 ft 9 in approx. full size
Kit OA width 120.6mm = 4 3/4 in= 9 ft 6 in approx. full size
Kit Roof width 98.5 mm = 3 7/8 in = 7 ft 9 in approx. full size

These should be the correct comparison numbers

I have photos of the vehicle on the set with people. one pic in particular has an adult man climbing on the ladders up the side of the vehicle - that photo suggests the the 8 ft 9 ground line to roof line dimension is pretty close.

Dave


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## gareee (Jan 1, 1970)

Drat.. sounds like star wars figures aren't in scale with the chariot... I was hoping some could stand in for some aliens...


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## starseeker2 (Jun 13, 2008)

Sumkin's wrong. The photo of Don next to the Chariot above - if the Chariot were nearly 9 feet ground to roof, that's almost 1/2 of Don's height added to Don. 
I like the first set of #s a lot better. That's closer to 1/3 of Don's height, which is still seems a bit much, but looks closer. 
And John is about 6'3", take off a couple inches for how his heel is lower than his toes, say 6' to the top of his head (it's probably less - look how low his other foot is), say the bottom rung of the ladder is about 16" max off the ground, or else they'd just use the track all the time, as the men usually did, that's less than 7' 4" to the top of his head, say an 8" radius to the curved roof piece, that's a little more than 8' to the roof at the very max. Nine more inches would be another of John's head's height added to the roof height. 
The photo of Don in the middle, from the bottom step of the ladder, his shoulders look level with the top of the door. It looks like the top of his head could come almost to the roof line if he straightened up. So a 6' person standing on a step even 18" from the ground would make the roof a few inches more than 7 1/2" from the ground. Maybe 7' 10". I can't see that roof being another 1 1/2' over Don's head. 
I really like that 1st set of #s better. 
Not that it really matters - it IS a beautiful kit that I've waited for for decades. I can just make my dioramas a bit bigger.


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## Dave Metzner (Jan 1, 1970)

Here's the link to the photo in question.
http://photos.hobbytalk.com/showphoto.php/photo/29973

To my view, given the camera angle of this shot I'm comfortable with a vehicle that is 8ft 9 in tall

The scale drawings that I have indicate a distance from ground line to top of the bottom ladder rung at about 22 inches and ground line to roof top at 8ft9 in

The radius of curvature on the roof is substantially greater than 8 inches - I don't believe that 1" square steel tubing will bend an 8 inch radius that roof is at least a 12 inch radius to my eye....

The kit is scaled to be 1/24 scale from drawings that indicate the dimensions I've listed...
The drawings may be wrong... but the kit follows the drawings pretty closely....

Dave


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## starseeker2 (Jun 13, 2008)

The first set of dimensions is remarkably close to this drawing. This drawing was traced from the studio blueprint, including the step, of the early Chariot and updated and detailed. The figure is a 1/24 scale Tamiya 5'11" person. The head position seems pretty close here to the photo. ?? 
That has to be the weirdest scan I've ever done. Oh oh, does that open this thread to off topic comments. And scans, too, no doubt...


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## heiki (Aug 8, 1999)

Well, are the wheel size and headlamp size known and a possible constant?


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

starseeker2 said:


> The first set of dimensions is remarkably close to this drawing. This drawing was traced from the studio blueprint, including the step, of the early Chariot and updated and detailed. The figure is a 1/24 scale Tamiya 5'11" person. The head position seems pretty close here to the photo...


Shall we presume your drawing has been re-sized to 1/24 scale?


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## starseeker2 (Jun 13, 2008)

Was looking through a LIS book and came across a better copy of one of the pictures I posted above. It's hardly visible above, but either John (according to the pressbook Guy Williams was 6'3" and Mark Goddard was 6' even) or Don is handing equipment up to other. You can see how high his up-reached hand goes. I've inverted the image to make it clearer. The cuff of his sleeve reaches to not quite halfway ? up the curved section of roof. Anyone out there 6' to 6'3" care to reach up and measure where their sleeve ends? Looks like straight up extended his fingertips would be almost level with the rooftop. 
And that is so the last thing I'll ever say about this. Especially since, in my search for the truth about scale, I kind of did some experimenting on my Chariot, and I have to get this all back together again now. Don't worry, it'll go together again. I hope. (I wonder if this would qualify for a replacement part from Moebius? No, it WILL go together again.)


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

starseeker2 said:


> ...Anyone out there 6' to 6'3" care to reach up and measure where their sleeve ends? Looks like straight up extended his fingertips would be almost level with the rooftop.


OK, I'm about 6' 1", and standing back a bit, in the same position shown in the photo, my sleeve-end would be about 6' 2", vertically measured. My fingertips would be around 7' 2". The ceiling is 8', and I can't stretch enough to reach it, standing back like this. No way would I reach 8' 9". That is, unless they added some vinyl plasticizer to me.


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## starseeker2 (Jun 13, 2008)

You lucky human being (see, I'm not saying anything about the Chariot because I said I wouldn't anymore). I am not nearly that tall but I used to play a lot of tennis. What I would give to have that kind of reach. How often I've wished for plasticizer.


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

starseeker2 said:


> You lucky human being...What I would give to have that kind of reach...


Many things are out of my reach, too. 

FWIW, I think this topic has raised fundamental questions about the chariot. And the chariot is important to me.


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## DaDragon (May 18, 2008)

*What's the point?!*

I think most of you guys are missing the big picture here: *we have a chariot model*! 

Whether it measures up, or not is mere quibbling.  Be happy with what you have - for my part I'm over the moon!! :woohoo: 

Graham.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Oh, I got over the moon a long time ago. It was _so _full of itself!


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## j2man (Jun 18, 1999)

Here here DaDragon!


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

Its nice to have a model of the Chariot. Its also good to look at ANY kit critically. I don't necessarily buy the "its the only kit in town be happy with it" line. The discussion about the kits scale has been interesting, and also necessary. If people are making and marketing aftermarket accessories and figures they have to fit the kit... Even if you don't make any sort of correction or modification to the model, its still nice to know any potential issues. Healthy discussion of a kits plus and minis aspects is beneficial all way around. It certainly doesn't diminish the interest in the Chariot... no one has said dang Im not going to buy one now...


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

It would be nice to have the Fox studio drawings of the chariot.


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## starseeker2 (Jun 13, 2008)

Wouldn't it! They must exist out there somewhere. 
In the meantime, here are the 6 diagrams from my sheet of early Chariot. These are what I based my Chariot drawings on. 
Note: only the cross section, Section 3, shows the Chariot in correct relation to its chassis.
As I've said, I based my drawings posted elsewhere on measurements of a Snowcat that I made many years ago. Turns out it wasn't the right Snowcat. Section 3 has the Spryte chassis dimensioned perfectly. Will redo those drawings shortly. 
There were changes to the Chariot from these blueprints, obviously. The slant of the windshield isn't right, the back door opened along different lines, and the dome opened to the back. 
But from everything I've ever seen, everything I've ever been able to estimate, I have no reason to believe that overall, the rest of the dimensions of the Chariot matched these drawings.


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## starseeker2 (Jun 13, 2008)

And the other 3:


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

Or if someone can at least measure the chassis of the real thing... since it is still around. That would be a big start knowing the actual length, width and depth of the bodywork.


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## starseeker2 (Jun 13, 2008)

In this photo, note the height of Don's or John's reach. 
http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/attachment.php?attachmentid=65487&d=1220535000
The attachment below shows the Moebius Chariot next to my ancient vac form plug based on what are supposed to the the Chariot blueprints. Both bodies have been raised to the height they would be with the proper sized Snow Cat chassis underneath (with the 12" radius tires). 

On the left is the Moebius Chariot with Tamiya's 1/20 figures. The figures seem too large, but only very slightly too large. A scale inch or two at most? On the right is the "1/24" Chariot with Tamiya's and New Ware's 1/24 figures. 

And taped to the chariot plug on all 4 sides and top are how far I've gotten with reducing the Moebius Chariot to what I think is 1/24 scale. Kids, do not try this at home! Why I started to do that in the middle of building the Seaview I don't know, but I've given up here and am going to FINISH that Seaview!!! Altho here all I have to do now is sand the curved pieces and glue them into place... But there's the new chassis and treads to build, in two different scales... Must finish Seaview...


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## Dave P (Jan 5, 2005)

Check out Preiser's G scale model railroad figures. They are 1/22.5 and look pretty good next to the Chariot. The shoulder height seems right standing in the bubble hatch. They are just about a head taller than the 1/24 figures. Haven't tried a seated one.

However, they are too tall for the Pod. Won't fit through the door. The Tamiya 1/24 figures work better here.

The keychain robot also seems to work well with the Chariot, while the kit robot looks right with the Pod.

Just a few observations. I'll try to grab some comparison photos.

Dave


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## Lou Dalmaso (Jul 13, 2004)

the Robby that comes with the FP deluxe DVD tin is also about the right size when put next to the Chariot Robot

just sayin'


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## 71challenger (Nov 22, 2008)

*Love the info!*

I've been lurking around reading over everyone's shoulders here since I got the Chariot kit a few months back. I'm pretty much only an auto modeler with occasional forays in SF, like JBs Austin Martin and the Batmobile and such. Every kind of other modeling I've ever seen, aircraft, armor, autos, research is so important for the serious types. Aircraft and tank builders have libraries full of reference material and auto car modelers and everyone else when they can get out and look at the real things and take pictures and measure. SF its like whatever comes out of the box is good enough for almost everybody. But I found this site via google and its so good to see all these ideas and pictures and links and info. 
If you can't get out there with a tape measure, this is like the next best thing. 
Starseeker, love your drawings of the Chariot I saw here somewhere. They will be my main reference. But your question about the scale of the Chariot you're missing something pretty obvious. I too been searching for Snow Cat info. Those tires are 5.30 x 12. That means the wheels are 12" in diameter. That means in every picture of the Chariot, there is a built in shiny bright 12" ruler. Looking at that shot of the Chariot with the kids sitting inside, quick measure with the calipers says it's about 7'3' to the roof. Kit is definitely way bigger than that.
But even if you can get out there with a tape measure, don't mean much. The Hot Wheels Batmobile is supposed to be 1/18 scale. It's details are of Batmobile #1 as it's now sitting in Geroge Barris's garage, not as it was on the show. That means someone has visited it in the last few years and checked it out. Probably measured it, as the model is pretty darn close proportionately. But if you check at the Batmobile model groups you will see that the model is 1/19.5 scale. Here is a case where they have the original plus 4 other Batmobiles and its a good model, just not 1/18. And here we're talking, except for maybe 007s ride, the single most famous car in the world. No offence, but the Chariot is pretty obscure compared to. 1/19, 1/20 scale, as long as it looks right. Which it does. Except for th chassis. Where's the after-market chassis? 
Love what I'm seeing here. I'm going to use all you guys ideas in my build. Kudos!


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