# Excelsior kit question?



## b26354 (Apr 11, 2007)

Anyone recognise this 43" Excelsior kit? Seller says it was made by LP Effects.


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## Griffworks (Jun 24, 2002)

Nope, I've never seen that particular recast. In fact, I'd never even herad of a clear recast of the old Lunar Models _Excelsior kit_, which was 41", I was thinking, when fully assembled. Having owned an LM _Excelsior_, tho, I can tell you that appears to be the very kit.


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## DL Matthys (May 8, 2004)

I did the math and it don't add up to make sense that this clear kit becomes labled a rescast.

LM 41" length then to LP fx 43" length ???

How does this "recast" grow 2 inches? ( Outside the notion of a 3D scaleing machine used in The Fantastic Voyage )

Just askin"

DLM


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## Griffworks (Jun 24, 2002)

I was going from memory on the LM Kit's length, Don. Thus the "I'm thinking" words I used there. That means "I'm not sure". 

Regardless, it sure as heck looks like the Lunar Models _Excelsior_ kit to me, tho obviously built up to the point of being sub-assemblies and then cast. It's also entirely possible that *b26354* is off on his measurements since the kit isn't built. The only thing that looks "off" is the front area of the nacelles. 

You ever heard of _LP Effects_, Don? I haven't. 

Ever heard of a large scale Excelsior kit like that cast in clear, Don? I haven't. 

While I don't know of every GKM company out there, I've heard of some pretty off-the-wall stuff in the past 15 years. I've never even heard of a kit like this. I'd think that word of something like that done as an original work would have gotten around pretty darned fast. Plus, 41" isn't exactly all that far off from 43" if someone doesn't have the measurements or possibly the conversion from metric right I might be wrong about it being a recast, but I don't think so as it looks too much like the LM kit. 

Come to think of it, it's possible that it's the kit from The Collective of several years ago, just cast in clear styrene. Hard to tell tho w/that one pic. Do you have any additional information on this, *b26354*? Is it styrene? Resin? Fiberglass? 

So, how's that grab ya for my reasoning, Don...?


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## b26354 (Apr 11, 2007)

Griffworks said:


> Come to think of it, it's possible that it's the kit from The Collective of several years ago, just cast in clear styrene. Hard to tell tho w/that one pic. Do you have any additional information on this, *b26354*? Is it styrene? Resin? Fiberglass?


Here's the full description from a New Zealand auction site - neither LP effects or "SciFi Models and Figures magazine" ring any bells though. 



> Star Trek USS Excelsior
> 
> Yes thats right this kitset builds up to a massive 43 inches. (I've put a matchbox in the pic for scale effect)
> 
> ...


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## Nektu (Aug 15, 2001)

I owned this kit about ten years ago... It was a mess. The casting I got had impossible flaws on the saucer and secondary hull. Huge ripples, bubbles, you name it. 
I threw it out. Literally. 
It was terrible beyond belief.

KK


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## Mr. Canoehead (Jun 12, 2006)

Wish I had an Excelcior model kit, especially a clear cast one.


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## Wbnemo1 (Aug 22, 1999)

This one I know.. , I still have a few photos of it myself. I never thought I'd see one in this state of completion, kit wise.

This kit was made by Kevin Pouge and Chris Larson "LP Effects", it was in fact a totally reworked Lunar Models 41" Excelsior if this is the kit I truly believe it is, LP effects pretty much confirms it.I'm not sure how much Chris had to do with it, perhaps he'll talk about it since he's a member here. Oh , and i do hstill have the old mold for the neck with the photon torpedo openings. I have som old pics somewhere of the master pattern being made. this isnt a recast unless you consider it's origin of being a Lunar model Excelsior. There was extensive modification to the whole thing ie. recessed panel lines details that had previously either been absent on the LM model or were facuformed losing the details, and this may be how it grew 2 inches in OAL. Hope this answers your question.
Best,
Will


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## Wbnemo1 (Aug 22, 1999)

I want to say the time frame of this kit was late 80's early 90's or somewhere thereabouts..It was after the Lunar kit hit so can kinda guess from there. Better yet , check the magazine, write up talks all about it. Chris used to talk about this piece all the time, and I have a Sci Fi models and figures magazine(there was only 1 issue made) around here somewhere and a few details from the kit as well.
Will


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## DL Matthys (May 8, 2004)

Nope never heard of LP Effects as well, Jeff. I also have an unbuild kit of the LM model so it looks nothing related to the Primary Hull area on the LP kit. The LM kit has the upper decks and impulse are...the U shape... as a seperate and solid tan resin casting (heavy). The LM saucer is vacumm formed plastic.

But the notion of the hulls cast clear and hollow to allow wires and elelctroincs is a cool idea. If it is not hollow...well then comes all sorts of problems... that I as a builder will not want to buy.

The single picture is not detailed enough to make a judgement...in a snap. So I can not opine any further.

DLM


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## Griffworks (Jun 24, 2002)

Wbnemo1 said:


> This one I know.. , I still have a few photos of it myself. I never thought I'd see one in this state of completion, kit wise.
> 
> This kit was made by Kevin Pouge and Chris Larson "LP Effects", it was in fact a totally reworked Lunar Models 41" Excelsior if this is the kit I truly believe it is, LP effects pretty much confirms it.I'm not sure how much Chris had to do with it, perhaps he'll talk about it since he's a member here. Oh , and i do hstill have the old mold for the neck with the photon torpedo openings. I have som old pics somewhere of the master pattern being made. this isnt a recast unless you consider it's origin of being a Lunar model Excelsior. There was extensive modification to the whole thing ie. recessed panel lines details that had previously either been absent on the LM model or were facuformed losing the details, and this may be how it grew 2 inches in OAL. Hope this answers your question.
> Best,
> Will


Thanks for that, William! Appreciate the info.


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## Griffworks (Jun 24, 2002)

DL Matthys said:


> Nope never heard of LP Effects as well, Jeff. I also have an unbuild kit of the LM model so it looks nothing related to the Primary Hull area on the LP kit. The LM kit has the upper decks and impulse are...the U shape... as a seperate and solid tan resin casting (heavy). The LM saucer is vacumm formed plastic.


Yes, but that doesn't preclude someone adding the "U shape" prior to casting - which is why I said that it appears to have been done in sub-assemblies. You have to add that resin bit to the LM _Excelsior_, along w/the two upper & lower hull halves and the lower planetary sensor array in order to complete the model. There's nothing to keep someone, obviously, from assembling the primary areas of the saucer section - as has been pointed out - and making a mold from that. 


> But the notion of the hulls cast clear and hollow to allow wires and elelctroincs is a cool idea. If it is not hollow...well then comes all sorts of problems... that I as a builder will not want to buy.
> 
> The single picture is not detailed enough to make a judgement...in a snap. So I can not opine any further.


And my opinion wasn't made "in a snap", either. I looked at the image, DL'd it to my harddrive, enlarged it, looked at specific areas that I remember from the LM kit and then formed my opinion. While my opinion wasn't 100% accurate, as William has taken the time to explain, it's not far removed from the LM _Excelsior _kit, which was the base this model was modified from.


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## ClubTepes (Jul 31, 2002)

Wbnemo1 said:


> This one I know.. , I still have a few photos of it myself. I never thought I'd see one in this state of completion, kit wise.
> 
> This kit was made by Kevin Pouge and Chris Larson "LP Effects", it was in fact a totally reworked Lunar Models 41" Excelsior if this is the kit I truly believe it is, LP effects pretty much confirms it.I'm not sure how much Chris had to do with it, perhaps he'll talk about it since he's a member here. Oh , and i do hstill have the old mold for the neck with the photon torpedo openings. I have som old pics somewhere of the master pattern being made. this isnt a recast unless you consider it's origin of being a Lunar model Excelsior. There was extensive modification to the whole thing ie. recessed panel lines details that had previously either been absent on the LM model or were facuformed losing the details, and this may be how it grew 2 inches in OAL. Hope this answers your question.
> Best,
> Will


I was wondering if "LP Effects" was what I thought it was.

Kevin Pouge was a few years ahead of me in my commercial art class back in high school. He was a pretty good modeler for the time '84-85'.

If Chris is a member here.....I'm curious as to what Kevin is up to. 

The problem that I remember seeing in that 'magazine' was that the saucer was at a different angle that the rest of the ship, giving it a drooping effect.


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## flyingfrets (Oct 19, 2001)

The clear cast resin is a nice idea if you're lighting the kit, but that particular casting looks kinda hazy (course it could be mold release, dust, etc.) 

Just be careful "finessing" clear resin. In my experience, it's extremely brittle.


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## Wbnemo1 (Aug 22, 1999)

Howdy,
That's not the resin you think it is 
it's fiberglass ,silmar surfboard resin or west systems epoxy most likely, not the resin most of you are familiar with. It is definitly fiberglass. I have a simular casting setup for the 18" Spacedock(not sure who made the masters) , but I think it was Kevin Pouge as well. The idea is just like greg jien used in his D Enterprise, mask windows, paint, remove masks, then back light. ok found some pics!... magazine is from 92 whoops! year was off, anyway enjoy! First pic is Kevin working on the master for the primary. second pic is from Chris's collection of the one they built up for the magazine, Third is the cover of the magazine..enjoy!
Sincerely,
Will
Ps kinda surprised you never heard of any of this Don M. considering how long you've been in the business

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s208/Wbnemo1/excel1.jpg

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s208/Wbnemo1/excel.jpg

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s208/Wbnemo1/excel11.jpg


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## Wbnemo1 (Aug 22, 1999)

almost forgot, if you got the magazine with the model, just open up the cover and inside you will see Chris Larsons and kevin pouges names and LP effects. Please note Chris(John May), if you are reading this, I'm giving you credit where credit is due!
Best,
Will


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## Wbnemo1 (Aug 22, 1999)

Hmm,
It was mentioned that this kit may have been copied from the Collective kit. If anything, it was the other way round. I wanted to mention that this is the kit that I was almost sure that "the Collective" copied for their offering, but then they went with vacuform they kinda killed the detail. This kit you have should have lots of scribed lines and radial grid as well as inset windows and such, never present, to my knowledge, on the LM model. This kit's primary and secondary hulls being made of this fiberglass were purposely made to be lighted. You sir, have an extremely rare kit that only a few know about. IIRC, there were only 7 made total, as it wasn't cost effective for them to produce, at least that's the reason I remember, maybe Chris will elaborate....
Sincerely,
Will


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## Griffworks (Jun 24, 2002)

Wbnemo1 said:


> Hmm,
> It was mentioned that this kit may have been copied from the Collective kit. If anything, it was the other way round. I wanted to mention that this is the kit that I was almost sure that "the Collective" copied for their offering, but then they went with vacuform they kinda killed the detail.
> *>SNIP<*


Actually, what I said was: 


> Come to think of it, it's possible that it's the kit from The Collective of several years ago, just cast in clear styrene. Hard to tell tho w/that one pic.


I knew that the kit from The Collective was a similar re-working of the LM Excelsior. I was just "talking out loud", so to speak, that perhaps they did a run of clear styrene for the purposes of lighting the kit. Wouldn't be the first time that a GKMer did a special run of a kit for lighting. 

And speaking of oddball kits, I know that there's a couple of companies that had produced several resin Trek kits in 1/1000 scale some years back. I've seen a Miranda, own a version of the Ascension-class dreadnought and have also seen a TOS Enterprise, TOS Romulan BoP and TOS Klingon D-7. However, most of these kits were never advertised and you'll likely never see them for sale on eBay. The last three were beautifully done, too.


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## Wbnemo1 (Aug 22, 1999)

Whoops!,
ok on the collective deal, sorry, I didnt recall exactly what you said , but the jist of it... I think you may have just mentioned it wasn't necessarly the first time a Garage Kit was specifically designed and made for lighting, I believe that maybe it was, as this kit would have been produced around in the earliest stages of the Garage kit industry at least for "Hardware" back in the days of CSHobbies, Lunar Models, John F Green, Demensional Designs, Rebellion Creations, and such, most of which, fortunately, are still around today. I started with Chris in 93, there wasn't too much out there so we came up with stuff fans would like to have. My first contact with him was to mold my little 6" Nautilus, things kinda took off from there through a series of events that basically sent him my direction. I have to say, though this is a bit off topic, that chris and I, toward the beginning, had many good times making models for fans and collectors alike. Things just went astray over the years, and I kinda got stuck holding the bag so to speak. 
Sincerely,
Will


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## Griffworks (Jun 24, 2002)

Oh, no worries on my end! Just wanting to clarify what I had written and meant by it. 

More interesting info comes to light about this kit, too. I didn't realize this was one of the very first kits - or the first - made specifically for lighting. Pretty kewel! This is one of those little background things I geek out over - kit history.


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## fiercegaming (Jul 21, 2004)

yeah thats pretty neat. Where could one find one of these kits. Didn't lunar models do one as well (41 inch) or are we talking the same guys here? Which excelsior kit would you recommend thats got some size to it, like as big as the PL refit. Im sure griff you have told me...that was a while back though. Wbnemo, does the seller you got this from have anymore kits? They are rare I take it.

(I guess it would help to read the topic , my bad)


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## b26354 (Apr 11, 2007)

Wbnemo... thanks for the background info on the kit. Seems like some sort of internal armature will be required to prevent saucer droop though


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## DL Matthys (May 8, 2004)

Wbnemo1 said:


> Ps kinda surprised you never heard of any of this Don M. considering how long you've been in the business


From my standpoint and location here in Fargo there be Bison no more than 40 miles from here. That news or magazine *prolly* did not make it up here on the prairies. 

Thanks for filling us in on the history WB. This outfit probably was one of the pioneers of the GK hobby biz back in the days before the internets and instant gratification checkbook modeling.

If only they knew then what we know now when it comes to tooling. 




DLM


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## Wbnemo1 (Aug 22, 1999)

lol ....good point, but it was a new thing back then, so a lot of experimenting 
Will


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## b26354 (Apr 11, 2007)

I've had the kit for a few weeks but I just pulled it out of the box to have a decent look at it. There are some splotches on the surface of the fiberglass (kind of fluffy like dust has accumulated on "wet" spots) and quite a few cracks which I'll see if I can seal with CA.

I gave to top of the primary a good wash down with lacquer thinners and a quick spray of primer to see what I was dealing with. It'll need a lot of cleanup (the impulse deck and bridge could do with being completely replaced) but I think it's salvageable. The nacelles are solid resin so they're pretty heavy which means I'll probably make new pylons with brass tube inside to stop them drooping.

I put a couple of pics up here:

excelsior kit


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## actias (May 19, 2003)

I don't think it's a Lunar Models copy. I used to have one of the LM kits back in the early to mid 90's, which I got directly from Mike Evans (Then owner of Lunar Models). I see 2 big differences from the LM and the primered parts pics:

1) The Lunar kit had a vacuumform dish. The grid lines were unbelievably deep and wide. The grid lines were not crisp and clean either, they had ragged edges. They looked like the grand canyon. I guess the grid lines in the masters were made deep to insure that the grid lines would show up in the vauumform pulls, especially since Lunar used .090 thick styrene to make the shells.

2) On the Lunar kit, the area on the top of the nacelles (where it all glows blue) did not have fine ribbing detail. Instead the Lunar version had the area made with 4 or 5 1/4" half round rods stacked alongside each other to create a sort of ribbed look. In fact the rods were cast individually and the modeler had to glue each one on.


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## Wbnemo1 (Aug 22, 1999)

hi there,
Actually it started life as a Lunar Models(thought it was Mike Evans, not Davis) kit and was totally reworked adding all the details you have noted. I still have a few pieces and parts as well as a neck mold from this piece... the kit this gentleman has is indeed one of these pieces I mentioned, a fiberglass reworked/ redetailed Lunar Models 41" Excelsior.
Sincerely,
Will


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## actias (May 19, 2003)

Your right about Evans. I was thinking Mike Evans but wrote down Mike Davis from work. Brain to finger fart. :wave:


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## b26354 (Apr 11, 2007)

I was looking at a bunch of reference pics. Seems like the top of the studio model got a refit for ST-VI with a new bridge and dual (but smaller) impulse crystals. Then a major upgrade for the Ent-B for Generations with a different shaped secondary and an extra pair of impulse engines.

Since I don't like the original bridge shape (which kind of looks like they didn't bother finishing it) I think I'll be making the ST-VI version.


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## irishtrek (Sep 17, 2005)

^ That's because they did give the studio model a slight refit for STVI and then a major refit for STVII in order to make the E-B look like a brand new ship design.


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## WarpCore Breach (Apr 27, 2005)

I noticed that with the Lunar kit, the warp engine tops did not require anything to be glued on- you got a half-circle rod with the ribs molded directly on.

I've seen 3 of the Lunar Excelsiors and they have the same engine detailing feature.


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## b26354 (Apr 11, 2007)

The top of the nacelles I have will need to be dremelled out and replaced.

But I'm starting with replacing the bridge with an ST-VI version...










The conference lounge deck needs some tweaks but I might mill this one out to see what else needs tweaking.


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## b26354 (Apr 11, 2007)

replacement bridge - 50mm diameter


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## DarthSideous (Mar 26, 2008)

Jon have you made any more of these replacement bridges? I'd like to get my hands on a couple if you have?


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## DUNCANIDAHO0420 (Apr 29, 2009)

b26354 said:


> Here's the full description from a New Zealand auction site - neither LP effects or "SciFi Models and Figures magazine" ring any bells though.


I GOT ONE. KINDA STUCK IT TOGETHER WITH CLAY AND TAPE TODAY TO GET A REALISTIC LENGTH 42.5 INCHES. RESEARCH ON STARSHIP MODELER LED ME TO YOU GUYS. IT IS IDENTICAL TO YOURS EXCEPT MINE CAME IN A BLACK CARDBOARD BOX AND ONLY ONE DECAL SHEET. THE NX2000 EXCELSIOR. IT IS CLEAR POLYESTER FIBERGLASS RESIN FOR THE SAUCER HALVES AND THE UPPER AND LOWER SECONDARY HULL HALVES AND SENSOR DOME, IMPULSE CRYSTAL, AFT HANGER BAY DOME AND THAT U-SHAPED HANGER PIECE. THE UPPER AND LOWER ENGINE HALVES, SUPPORT PYLON, AFT HANGER BAY DOORS AND DORSAL PHOTORP HOUSING CONNECTING THE SAUCER TO THE SEC HULL ARE ALL POLY-URETHANE CASTING RESIN. I GOT MINE IN 1991 FROM TOM STEWART WHO OWNED SUPER COLLECTOR IN ANAHEIM, CA. NOT FAR FROM BROOKHURST HOBBIES. I BROUGHT HIM A BUILDUP ONE DAY AND HE SHOWED ME THIS KIT HE SAID I GUY HAD JUST MADE AND TOM BEING THE ULTIMATE STAR TREK COLLECTOR, KEPT ONE FOR HIMSELF AND SOLD ME THE OTHER ONE FOR $250.00. IT IS IN SCALE WITH THE AMT ENTERPRISE A. SOMEONE ASKED ME TODAY IF IT WAS THE LUNAR EXCELSIOR. I'D NEVER SEEN THE LUNAR KIT SO AGAIN, MY RESEARCH LED ME TO YOU GUYS AND I WANT TO THANK YOU ALL. THE KIT IS WAY TOO HEAVY TO SUPPORT ITSELF. IT NEEDS TO BE CLEANED UP, REWORKED AS NEW MASTERS, SILICONE MOLDS MADE, AND RECAST IN EPOXY RESIN BRUSHED UP AS THIN BUT RIGID ENOUGH TO SUPPORT ITSELF WITH A COMPLETE WIRING/LIGHTING HARNESS. BRASS ARMATURE AND CLEAR ACRYIC ROD CAN BE INCORPORATED INTO THE CASTING IN THE SAME WAY WE MADE THE TIE FIGHTER SOLAR SAIL SUPPORTS AT ICONS REPLICAS BACK IN THE DAY. THE FIRST ONES WERE COMING BACK TO US WITH DROOPING SAILS. THE ICONS X-WING SUFFERED THE SAME UNTIL AL ZEQUIERA INCORPORATED THIN BRASS RODS THAT WERE INSERTED INTO THE MOLDS BEFORE INJECTING THE RESIN ENCAPSULATING THE BRASS RODS. WE ALSO USED BRASS ROD ON ALL THE FINGERS FOR THE TERMINATOR ARMS BEFORE PRESSURE INJECTION CASTING AND THEN VACUMETALIZING. I GOT LOTS OF GOOD HIGH PIXAL PHOTO IMAGES OF MY EXCELSIOR IF ANYONE IS INTERESTED.


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## Scott Sandoval (Dec 31, 2007)

I remember when that one was sold here in New Zealand. I think it was sold on Trademe.


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## DarthSideous (Mar 26, 2008)

Hi DUNCANIDAHO0420,

This project was shelved for a couple years, however, I am working on it this spring/summer. I'd love to see the pics of your build up!


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