# Scaf's Track



## Scafremon (Dec 11, 2006)

Today I got off the computer, put away the wallet, and started the construction of my track.

I mounted some support pieces for the legs (so that I could use longer screws to attach the legs), put a couple coats of primer/sealer on bottom of tables, and attached the folding table legs.

That's about it for today. 

Next tasks will be to primer top and sides, add supports under table top to level the slight bowing, and design a method to 'draw' the 2 table pieces together insuring a level fit at the joint that will withstand being attached and detached frequently.

I also want to have height adjustments on the table legs, and possibly wheels with brakes.


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## 1976Cordoba (Sep 20, 2000)

That first step is always the hardest -- now one thing will flow into another. Looks good so far!

'doba


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## scooter72167 (Dec 9, 2005)

I guess that is what is called a "shorttrack" :wave: 

Evan


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## roadrner (Jul 21, 1999)

Don't stop now, keep on rollin'. :thumbsup: rr


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## BewstdGT (Jan 4, 2005)

Now that you have the foundation set you can just start throwing stuff together. It took me a few hours to build my table but as soon as that was done the rest has been coming together like clockwork. Well, all except for the stuff I dont know how to do like lighting and wiring. Git-r-dun chief!!


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## Scafremon (Dec 11, 2006)

scooter72167 said:


> I guess that is what is called a "shorttrack" :wave:
> 
> Evan


You might say that. I was actually tempted to add a 9" curve, but I thought it might make the track look too 'busy', like I was just trying to use every piece of track I owned. I also think this will give me the room I need for landscaping.

If anyone is interested in copying this design, I have attached the Tracker 2000 design image. You can easily make this layout by combining a Super International set with the Big Block Battlers set.


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## FastMann (Dec 19, 2006)

From the looks of that attached image that really is a 'short track' chief. :lol:


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## Scafremon (Dec 11, 2006)

Made a little progress tonight. I installed the Racor PHL-1R Heavy Lift to the garage ceiling. I figured I had to get this step moving forward, because I have no room for a permanent layout, and therefore needed to figure out what I am going to do with track when it is not being used.

My plan is to lose the 'shelf' that came with the rack system, run a couple 2x4's under one of the tables, and hook the ends of those 2x4's to the cables. Once that table is raised a couple inches, the other table will slide underneath, and again a couple 2x4's under it will hook to some additional short cables that are attached to the first tables' 2x4's.

This assembly is going to take more vertical headroom then I had anticipated. Not real pleased with that. I already have 2 bikes hanging down over the hood of my car on other side of garage, so now the previously open area of the garage will have a hanging obstruction.


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## bumpercar88 (Feb 6, 2005)

That lift is way cool, where did you get it?


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## Scafremon (Dec 11, 2006)

bumpercar88 said:


> That lift is way cool, where did you get it?


I had a local Lowes order it. Took less then a week to arrive at the store. $148.00


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## Scafremon (Dec 11, 2006)

I added some inexpensive caster wheels today - they really help moving these tables around the garage.

I also got the tables up on the lift. :thumbsup: The lowest part of the bottom table is 6'3" from floor. I'm pretty sure I can raise it another 2-3 inches by adjusting eyebolt lengths, and reducing the distance between the tables. I think I have about 5 inches now between them. Unfortunatly, there won't be much (if any) elevation changes in my layout.


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## Scafremon (Dec 11, 2006)

Today I decided to purty-up the look of the track tables when stored. I figure they are going to be in this position most of the time, so they should look decent.

Plus, maybe it will get friends/neighbors to inquire as to what I got hanging there...so I will need to take them down, set it up...and race.  

Now, if I can ever get the topside to look as good as the bottom side....



Next step is to figure out how I am going to attach the tables to each other in an "L" shape. My garage floor is not perfectly level, plus the plywood tops have a little difference to them. I'm thinking a piece of wood on underside, attached to one half, and it would then be a shelf for the other table to sit on. Attaching the second table to the shelf would be by using bolts, countersunk on topside. I would locate these bolts underneath pieces of removable track that are spanning the table tops. The issue then is modifying the Tomy track so it can be dropped in from top, as oppossed to sliding together.

So, I think I will reverse the above steps, and design the drop-in track first, because if that doesn't pan out, I may need to rethink how I draw the tables together.


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## Crimnick (May 28, 2006)

Very nice Scaf!

Well....you could mount 2x4 on the edge so they meet....drill them through...then glue a dowl in one side for a pin and jioner style...

The "female" would need just a slight amount of play...

As for pulling them together...

How about some tie down clamps...like they style from a tool box...that draws the sides together as they clamp down...

You almost need to two people to do it though in order to get the track to connect at the same time...

UNLESS....you think about something I had come up with like a removable model train bridge...

all track would be static (secured)...and the bridge piece would just set into the space between them...

two ways to power the "bridge"....

either with a set of jumpers...

Or ...

Brass spring contacts set into the bottom of the "bridge"...hell...you could use a set up pick up shoes for each lane if you modified them...

You dont need to carry power "through" the joint if you wire the table sections with a quick disconnect.....you only need to power the bridge someway..

This way...you could put the table together by yourself....then drop in the joiner pieces after wards...some simple holes in the table and pins glued on the bottom of the joiner section could ensure alinement..

Or maybe on the extreme...adapt to lock and joiner style just for the "bridge" between the tables...so you wouldnt have to hack the track ends flat...

Just an idea...I been thinking about how to do my future track in a modular form as well...and make it easy to set up...

I'd like to be able to set it up as an 8 lane long oval...or a 4 lane road coarse...

My big table would contain the 4 lane road coarse with an over pass etc...

And a short 3x3 , 8 lane curve set could be used instead of running onto the long table...to create a 18 ft long 8 lane oval...( my two narrow tables are 7'6" long and 38" wide)...

In other words...with the big table...the inside four lanes would run out and back...and the outside four lanes would run out and back...

With the short section...it would be an 8 lane..

It would take some extra wiring to keep the lanes separate...and some jumpers for use when a road course...but I really want to be able to take it and set it up other places sometime...

I would also need two separate timing interfaces....one on the big table as a four lane...

and one on the short curve section as an 8 lane...

When I have a minute (sure..LOL ) I'll add my thoughts to the "mid ohio" layout pics I posted a while ago...so you can see what I'm talking about...

*evil mad scientist laugh*


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## Scafremon (Dec 11, 2006)

I think the 'bridge' piece will be the way to go. But, I think we can do it without having to create jumper wires or other some other means to connect the rails. I did a test tonight.

I screwed down 3 pcs of track, making sure they were a snug fit. I then removed them, remounted the 2 outside pieces, and started with the dremel on the removed center piece.

The 3" piece on the right in the photo below is the piece I dremeled.



You can get one side to of the track to 'slide in' like normal by attaching the piece on an angle.



The second side can drop in from top, but, you do need to use a small-tip screwdriver to help pry the angled rails out of the way to accept the other rail.

I admittedly did break a couple of the plastic pieces on the fixed mounted track during my attempts to drop in the middle piece, but I'm sure that could be resolved by allowing a small (like 1/16") gap between these track pieces. I had basically zero tolerance when I mounted the pieces, and this caused plastic to hit plastic when dropping in the middle piece.

Being careful, I think we can use drop in 'bridge' pieces, and utilize the rails to provide continuity of power.


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## Crimnick (May 28, 2006)

Excellent! :thumbsup:


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## Scafremon (Dec 11, 2006)

Today I bought some of the wiring things I will need. Terminal strips and wire connectors. It doesn't look like $50 worth of stuff to me, but it was.



I decided to go all 16ga stranded wire. I ordered the wire through my company today, 500' ea of red and black (we only sell in 500' rolls). Hopefully that will be plenty.

I still need to figure out what I am going to do for driver stations, among other things, but I think I can mount these TB's, and if my wire comes in tomorrow, make my power-tap track pieces.

I called Racemasters (the distributor for AFX track) again today - they are local to me. Super International sets are on their way from China, and should hit the warehouses in next couple weeks. The new 4-Way Split set isn't going to be available until June/July. It will have new cars in it (I didn't ask what cars) but the new cars require new art-work for the box, and that is what is delaying things. I mention this because I need to buy one or the other of these sets plus additional track pieces to complete my current design.


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## Scafremon (Dec 11, 2006)

BTW:

This is the design that I am currently working with. I may still tweak somethings here and there, but this is the current goal.

It has straight pieces crossing the two tables, to allow for the drop-in tracks.


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## BewstdGT (Jan 4, 2005)

I think as long as you have a few slightly elevated sections for looks, even if its only 1-2", will really be a good start. I really dig the setup, I think in the end that will be really fun to race on with 4 lanes.


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## doubledeuce (Jan 16, 2006)

I have been following along with your progress. Looking great so far. You are not going to want to hang that track in the ceiling once it is done. You will be having too much fun. You vehicle will be left out int he cold!


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## Scafremon (Dec 11, 2006)

Bewstd: Once I get the track onto the table, I will look into getting some elevation changes. I agree that these can really enhance the look and fun of the track.

Duece: Thanks for following along. Ya know, I think I might be able to fit my 350Z in the garage will the table down, but her Element would have to stay outside. Nope - she won't go for that I can assure you.

I know that much what I am doing is old-hat to so many here, and I may even get too detailed on no-brainer things, but I hope that this process will be useful for others who may also just be starting out in this hobby.

This forum seems like a good place to post my 'blog' on building the track, since most of what I learned came from this forum, and details I don't touch on here are probably detailed in the many other threads at the forum.


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## doubledeuce (Jan 16, 2006)

Scaf, I am with ya on the quality of the posts on this forum. I am an RC racer most of the year, but each year in December, as I have done for 30 years, I set up my HO slot car track for the Holidays. This year, I started reading the slot cars section of Hobby talk and have been hooked ever since. I have an approx 55 foot 4 lane temp layout in my RC shop. Normally, it would have been taken down by now, but I can't bring myself to do it. I was never into trains, but like the detailed landscaping. I was totally inspired by Scott V's track and have long term plans for a permenant landscaped layout in the future. I am also considering a way to elevate my temp layout to the ceilign in my shop......decisions....keep up your blog on this forum, I will be following along for the duration.

John


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## Slott V (Feb 3, 2005)

Looks good- Looks like you're off to a good start! :thumbsup: 

One thing to anticipate is that if you raise the track your track length in that area will shorten as you go up, so you may have to play around with different pieces before you get it all right.


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## Scafremon (Dec 11, 2006)

I painted the table tops a tan color. I think it looks good as a backdrop against the black track. If I decide to landscape in the future, I may go with a desert theme.

I used a 1x7 under the table split to hold the 2 tables together.



I placed the holes where they would be under the drop-in track pieces.



All this track, and I am still $200 shy in track pieces to finish the layout.


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## BewstdGT (Jan 4, 2005)

The bay is your friend! I bought a lot of tyco track a couple years ago for $70 shipped and got 300 pieces of track with 5 power tracks with 2 controllers for each as well as guard rails and all kinds of loose ends.


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## Scafremon (Dec 11, 2006)

I've been placing bids eBay for track, but the winning bids seem to be above what I can buy the track for from the store.

I did get my wire.



I also went and bought a drill press. I tried countersinking holes again with my hand drill, and it wasn't very productive. I was all ready to spend $100 on a Ryobi drill press, but found this one at Harbor Freight for $40.00

It will work fine for my current purpose, and the money I saved can be used towards buying the additional track pieces I need. But the quality of the machine isn't very good. 



I went ahead and countersunk all the holes on the track pieces I currently have, and also took the dremmel tool to the tabs that need to get removed. That process took a few hours, and I will have to go through it again when I get the rest of the track pieces.


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## Scafremon (Dec 11, 2006)

Some stuff I picked up today, to get moving forward on power for the track. 



Extra Hand tool
Wire Glue (not sure if/where I will use this)
Banana plugs, male and female for driver stations (I guess I will paint some white)
Solder, Solder Flux
Wire Guide clamps
Couple power strips (I will be using 4 wall warts for power)
Magnetic Reed switches (for lap counter)
Molex connectors (for easy wire connections between tables)


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## Scafremon (Dec 11, 2006)

I got most of the under-table power wiring done today.





Still need to figure out my drivers stations, and learn to solder wires to track.


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## doubledeuce (Jan 16, 2006)

Nice work!


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## Stoosh (Feb 13, 2006)

Scaf, looks nice and neat. Hey what are the two boxes (look like a large red and green switch) on the right hand side of the picture?


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## 1976Cordoba (Sep 20, 2000)

Stoosh said:


> Scaf, looks nice and neat. Hey what are the two boxes (look like a large red and green switch) on the right hand side of the picture?


I think those are the powerpacks with colored tape stuck to them (probably to designate the lane). At least that's what it looks like to me.

'doba


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## racin75 (Jan 28, 2007)

*track*

i found on my track which i soldered every joint on the whole track i used some flux made by lucky bobs which i use to use on my 1/24 scale cars, i tried all the different paste flux from radio shack and they wasnt even close to the lucky bobs and on the iron i used a unger solering iron which i cant remember how many watts it is but it works great, and a damp towel will probably help you if you are not a good solderer , im used to it im a welder by trade so it probably helps me i dont use a towel . hope this helps you. thanks gary


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## Scafremon (Dec 11, 2006)

Thank you for the comments.

The black boxes on the right are the power packs like doba stated. The long side of the table just has terminal blocks, with some colored tape by them to help me keep track of what I was doing. 

I don't plan on soldering track joints because I think I will want to modify the layout in the future (add elevations, and maybe re-layout the track). Plus, my soldering skills are nil as I found out yesterday.

I've never done any wiring prior, and while it was tedious, it was also enjoyable. I wasn't sure how I was going to run wire when I centered the TB's on the 2x4. I think I may move the TB's up a half inch or so, to keep the wiring all above the bottom of the 2x4. The top side of the TB's will be wired to either power tap tracks or controllers, and only a single wire on each TB point, so I don't need as much room above the TB as I need below.


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

*Another great play by play!*

Hey Scaf, Very nice indeed. I've been lurking along with you on this layout. You may find the wiring tedious but you've done an admirable job! Organized,nice and neat. If you ever have troubles it will make things "legible" and easy to trouble shoot. Add ons will be a snap as well. I always liked the cafeteria table legs. Did those come with casters or were they an add on? Again very cool, and well thought out, Dig it! :thumbsup: - BH


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## Scafremon (Dec 11, 2006)

Thank you Bill.

The casters were an add-on. My local mom-and-pop hardware store helped me find those when I described what I was trying to do. You hammer these plastic plugs into the ends of the legs, and they have a center hole to push-in the nylon caster post. So simple, and yet before they pointed these out, I was engineering a disaster using PVC, dowels, and huge rubber casters.

I think these nylon wheels are going to work great for the minimal scooting around of the tables in my garage.


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## Scafremon (Dec 11, 2006)

I've been working on the driver's stations over past few evenings. I decided to use radio shack project boxes for the stations, mounted under the edge of the table. I included an on/off brake switch and a reversing switch. I went with banana plug connectors to the controllers at this time.

I made a couple goofs during the process. First one was that I soldered wires to the fuse holder before mounting it. Since the fuse holder mounts from the front, my solder connection wouldn't fit through the hole I had made. Some filing solved that, but the holding nut will not go over the solder connection on the inside. Learning from that mistake, on my second go around I mounted the fuse holder first, then soldered wires to it. Only thing was, I wanted it in the middle hole to separate the toggle switches, but I had it in the left hole.

All in all, after mounting the box and making the wiring connections, I used my voltmeter to test it, and everything worked like it should, so I am happy.

I can see myself redoing the stations as a project sometime in the future...but for now, I am going to complete the other three stations, and move on to the next task.


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## Tycoarm (Jan 7, 2006)

Wow Scaf, nice job on the drivers station :thumbsup: :thumbsup: your setup is looking impressive, and I'm looking forward to seeing your setup as you progress.


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## 1976Cordoba (Sep 20, 2000)

Scaf --

We used the same boxes on my track, except we added a second box with the middle cut out to hold the controller.










Also, with the green, yellow, blue and red lane colors I used, I got a matching controller color. Well, except green, there were no green ones so I had to use a yellow one and shoot transparent blue inside the handle. Now it's green. 

'doba


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## Scafremon (Dec 11, 2006)

I think the project boxes have a nice clean look to them. I also need to figure out a place to set the controllers. Since my stations are under the edge of the table, I am thinking about some type of basket - maybe a long basket that spans the gap between the stations.


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## Scafremon (Dec 11, 2006)

I worked on my table walls today. I still need to paint them and do some detail work where the edges meet.



I used gutter guard for the walls, and hot-glued some FRP vinyl capping to the top edge. I also attached FRP vinyl cap to the table edge using small nails, to give me a channel to put the gutter guard in. Because of the way I have to store the table, I needed to make the table walls removable.



I glued some craft sticks along the lower edge of the gutter guard, and then also used craft sticks to make vertical supports. These sticks gave the gutter guard just enough rigidty to stand vertical.

Some corner caps should finish the basic wall, along with some way to tie the edges of the guard together at the corners, and where I had to split the wall along the long straight.

The wall consists of 7 pieces, which can be laid on the table when I have to raise it to the ceiling.


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## Tycoarm (Jan 7, 2006)

The catch walls turned out great Scaf, I thought it was ping pong netting when I first saw the pic.


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## Scafremon (Dec 11, 2006)

Thanks Tyco. I wanted to use ping pong nets, but they were too expensive.

One thing about the walls is that they sure make the tables looks smaller. I believe this is because the light color along top edge. I started painted the walls flat black last night, and I hope this makes the walls less of a visual attraction. Of course, having some track layed out will help too.


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## Scafremon (Dec 11, 2006)

I finished painting the walls black, and while I'm not sure if the table sizes grew by doing so, I do like the look if it better.



After taking the walls in and out a couple times, I can see that my popsicle-stick-in-a-channel situation may not last very long. The channel is just a tad too narrow to get the assembly to drop in easily, and while I didn't want it loose, I think the sticks will soon start to pop off after a couple more in/outs. Epoxy might hold them, but I may need to get a different channel...or rethink the attachment method completely....or....buy a house with a basement so I can stop dinkering around with all this 'has to be removable' and 'has to break down to the size of a carry-on bag' crud I am dealing with.

The cars haven't been in the garage for a week now. 

In between coats of paint tonight, I started wondering when I am going to dis-assembly the tables, and raise them to their ceiling home.

Hmmm....September...2008..............maybe.


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## Crimnick (May 28, 2006)

LOL...well..at least when you do decide to buy another house....you'll allready be looking for slotcar space *grin*

Yeah...you got it bad... :thumbsup:


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## Scafremon (Dec 11, 2006)

Power Taps:

Based on a power tap thread elsewhere on the forum, I am probably going a wee bit overboard on the qty of power taps for my layout.

My track is approx 64' per lane, and uses 164 pc's of track, so there are about 81 track-joints per pair of lanes. Using the general rule of a tap every 10-15 joints, I wired the track for (7) power taps for each lane. Four would have probably been fine, and five plenty, but I went ahead and mounted 8pt terminal blocks in various areas so I would have seven taps.

As I started making my power tap tracks tonight, I realized the downside to having so many - it's a lot of work making them. 

14 tap tracks:

56 wire leads cut
28 lil HO train connectors pried apart, flattened, and diagonally cut
56 solders
112 wire strips
56 crimps
56 hot glue dabs (each requiring 25 seconds of holding wire still)

One track down - 13 to go. My first did not come out real pretty, but I think the 5th one is going to be perfect. The 9th one will probably still look decent, and the last one will probably look more like the first (just my prediction). 



Props again to tycoarm for enlightening me on the push-the-sharp-sliver-through-the-slit method for power taps.

Oh yea...

42 holes I have to drill in my table (the center wires will share a hole?)


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## Stoosh (Feb 13, 2006)

You would need maybe 2 - 3 power taps if you are planning on soldering all the rail connections. I did this on my 56' road track and a similar sized quad oval and have clean, smooth current throughout the track.


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## Scafremon (Dec 11, 2006)

I wasn't planning on soldering the track joints, but if you guys talk me into it....

I'm guessing soldering the track is a fairly permanent set-up, or can you desolder and resolder track without much worry of damaging track pieces?

In spite of all my whining in my previous post, I'm actually ok wiht the work involved in making the 7 power taps. I am pretty much convinced that any effort put into making the track that provides results is fun. 

I am however worried about all the holes I will need to drill in my currently pristine table top for all these power tap wires. I'm fairly certain that shortly after setting up my first layout I will find something that I want to change, and if that change requires moving a power tap track I will start having to deal with patching holes. 

One idea I was just mulling over was routering some channels in the table top that could be used for routing power tap wires. Maybe 2 or 3 channels on each 4x8 table, maybe 3/8"w and 3/8"d across the width of the table.

If I ever relayout track, instead of drilling new holes for where my pre-made power tap tracks are located, I would make whatever track piece crosses the channel a power tap track.

Some type of cheap drop-in cover could be made for the channels, after wires have been run.

Attached is a quick sketch, with channels obviously not drawn to scale.

What do you guys think about this, or do you have another idea, so that my tabel won't start to look like swiss cheese after a few revised layouts?


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## Manning (Mar 2, 2004)

I wouldn't solder all the track connections if you are doing 7 taps. That's plenty good..... It would take f o r e v e r to solder all the joints...... And like you mentioned, that makes it really tough to make changes later... And you will.......


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## Scafremon (Dec 11, 2006)

Attached is my working layout. The small squares are approx where my terminal blocks are located, under the table.

I have indicated the sections of track where I was planning to put power taps.

Please feel free to comment on these locations.


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## Tycoarm (Jan 7, 2006)

With seven taps I don't think soldering will give you any noticeable power differerence vs. not soldering.

I'm currently running 6 taps With about 104' of track without any power drop issues.

Hey Scaf, I would recommend just letting the wires be exposed on the sides for now. It won't look pretty but Like you said no sense in swiss cheesing your tables.
Just use wire nuts temporarily untill your satisfied with a layout. 
Take it from me I changed my layout a number of times but luckily some of the track covered the extra holes and the scenery will help hide the rest.


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## Slott V (Feb 3, 2005)

Scafremon said:


> Attached is my working layout. The small squares are approx where my terminal blocks are located, under the table.
> 
> I have indicated the sections of track where I was planning to put power taps.
> 
> Please feel free to comment on these locations.


I'm guessing your layout will run clockwise, so those locations are in a perfect spot as the most power demand will come from the start of the straights.

If you inspect all of your connections periodically and use a small amount of corrosion resistant grease when you assemble everything your track should run great with the added power feeds. The room condition can have an affect on the time it takes for your connections to get dirty though. The race room at my old house had a severe temperature fluctuation through summer and winter. Because of that my track floats between the wood inlays to allow it to shrink and contract and only the power connection pieces are fastened down. I pulled it all up every so often and clean all the connections. The track would shrink nearly .5" over a 20 foot span and leave gaps in some places until it warmed up. Something to consider if you're planning on permanently securing the track to the table in a room with big temp changes like a garage or non-insulated basement. When I first screwed it all down, my track became severly distorted and twisted when the room in the old house got cold in the winter. :freak: 

Besides soldering and smoothing connections, some even go as far as running continous rail in place of the factory rail sections. :dude:


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## Scafremon (Dec 11, 2006)

Thank you for the ideas and input.

After much thought, I've decided I am not going to worry too much about having to deal with some holes at the point in the future when I decide to change layouts. I think I am going to have many days of fun with whatever layout I start out with. 

There are actually (3) slightly different designs I have been trying to choose between, and I noticed that if I move (2) power taps just slightly, I can build any of the three designs and the holes will all be covered.  I might start though with just using 2 or 3 taps, and add the others in later.

It does require that I put these two taps on curves, but I don't think that is a problem. One thing I like about the power taps I am making is that they are not permanent to the track piece. The sharp tang can slide into any track, and the hot glue is easily removed (my hot glue dabs on my first power track have already came apart...lol).

If you would care to offer your opinion of the better of the following 3 layouts, I would appreciate your input. They are basically the same except for the cornering in lower left.

The first is the same as I posted above - I have just indicated which power taps would move. The second is a design where I added an opposite tight corner, to even things between lanes somewhat. The last is just another variation.

SlottV: I will look for that grease you mention for sure. I imagine my hobby shop should carry it? I will also keep aware of potential track shrinkage, though maybe here in So Cal the temps wont vary enough to be a problem.


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## Manning (Mar 2, 2004)

I like the middle layout a bit better........just because the short leg of the "L" is a bit mellower and has a straight. Too many curves in a row promotes holding the throttle in one place, breaking the curves up with a straight will tempt the drivers in to going full throttle......... Looks like a fun layout to me.


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## Tycoarm (Jan 7, 2006)

My vote for #2 as well.


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## Ragnar (Aug 22, 2006)

I would also go with number two. It has a better flow to it.


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## Slott V (Feb 3, 2005)

Scafremon said:


> SlottV: I will look for that grease you mention for sure. I imagine my hobby shop should carry it? I will also keep aware of potential track shrinkage, though maybe here in So Cal the temps wont vary enough to be a problem.


Mmm wish _I_ was in So Cal right now. It was -3 this morning, _without_ the wind in Chitown. 

I would think Radio Shack might carry a similar product. Or an automotive store; They use it for spark plug boots and older distributor operated ignition systems. It's a silicone base clear grease.


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## doubledeuce (Jan 16, 2006)

Daytona would be nice. It was -6 and windy here in PA. 

Scaf,

The middle layout would be my choice. 

I just got my new layout up and running. It is 67' and I have three power taps so far. I plan to add at least one more, but I really don't think I need it. The mosty troublesome cars I ahve had are the LL M and T chassi cars and with the three power taps, I have no dead spots in any of the 4 lanes. I just picked up a Wizzard P3 to set some speed records with. That car should be the test to see if I need more power taps.


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## SplitPoster (May 16, 2006)

On that grease: I bought some at Home Depot to use in high humidity, to prevent light bulb from oxidizing, and not conducting electricity - had to use it for a floodlight in a recessed lighting fixture. Same stuff?


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## Scafremon (Dec 11, 2006)

I found the attached product in my warehouse. Does this look like it would do the trick?

http://www.idealindustries.com/IDEAL-EZ/products.nsf/ItemMasterLookup/p30-030?OpenDocument


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

Number 2! I'm with the majority. Probably a faster course, with some decent technical aspects. BTW, Any good "No-Ox" will do. The smaller easy squeeze container is the way to go for accuracy and the repetitive nature of the task at hand. A little bit goes a long way. I've used the above product with good success.


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## Scafremon (Dec 11, 2006)

Woo Hoo!! I've got a race track! :thumbsup: 

After spending a couple hours last night grinding off track tabs, I went ahead and quickly assembled a layout. I went with the consensus and used the #2 layout from prior post. I only used one power tap, and simply ran the wires out the side of the track like Tycoarm suggessted. I think it was about 9:00PM when I had it ready, and spent the next 3 hours having fun.  




Here are some initial impressions.

The three straights along outside edge of table are a blast. 

Reverse switches and brakes worked perfect. (I was anticipating a wiring error somewhere).

I'm not sure of the value of chicane section. It's not technical - and is basically like a straight, just at a lower speed. While it lacks a technical aspect, it does provide a nice visual aspect, when cars are weaving through there close to each other.

A 6" radius curve at end of a straight is more torture then technical (I have one on the inside straight along left edge of table, when travelling clockwise...err...counterclockwise on that particular straight). 

Hairpins consisting of 6"r curves require some fine detailing on track connections, to prevent guide pin from hitting joints and deslotting car.

One power tap seemed to work plenty good. I did not notice any change in power along complete layout. Why am I putting in 7 power taps again?  

I only ran SuperG+ cars using 45ohm Parmas. Except for the occassional blip to full speed on the straight, I found I was only using the first 25% or so of the trigger travel. It's possible that I could have went faster, but I was trying to stay in-slot. When I get the laptimer hooked up, that will help me push the speed envelope of the layout, and maybe I will find the 45ohm controller is a good match, but I am thinking that the SuperG+ cars might be better served with a 60ohm or higher controller?

My driver stations are along the outside of the "L", 2 on each table, which gives each station a different perspective of the layout. Some station locations are better then others, especially for maximizing speed on a straight (easier to have the car coming towards you then away from you on the long straight).

Did I mention this is a blast?

Last night was a big turning point in my track progress. Big kudos to all of you that have posted your ideas and experiences on this forum, as it helped me immensely to get to this stage.

Thank you!

Jeff


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## Scafremon (Dec 11, 2006)

Couple more things:

I need to increase controller wire length.

I need baskets/holsters for controllers.

I need beer holders!!!

Table walls worked great. Deslotted cars never left the table. I do need to round the corners of the table to make it easier to move around the table. Clothing would catch the walls and pull the walls out.

Thinking about cutting a few inches off the table legs. 

I may tweak the current layout some, but I will soon be screwing down the track. I do know however that this will not be the final layout. As many have suggessted, I will be working on incorporating elevation changes and an overpass, but I will be doing this while I have a working flat layout to enjoy.

I have a single AW T-Jet that I need to tune-up now, using ideas many of you posted in another thread I had started. Then, I can see if the 45ohm controllers work better with a T-Jet then a SuperG+. Do you guys believe the 45ohm is a good match for a stock TJet?


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

*Whoa! Measure twice cut once.*

Before you wack those table legs, try it the other way round. Stand on something to shim yourself up and try it on for size.  After all the soldering and wiring you've accomplished to date, stretching your controller leads will be a walk in the park! :thumbsup: Someone on this group once said a 45ohm controller is like an on off switch. Danged if I can remember who it was. Trying to navigate the technical chicanery on your course with a 45ohm controlled t-jet/jl car will require practice. Troll the bay for the old blue 80ohm russkit(s), or better yet update a 45ohm wand with a resistor conversion. The spendy variable wands are an option too. Unless you plan to add more high ohm pancake motors to your collection I'd probably just learn to drive it with the 45. As far as the beer holders go I'd get some of the small diameter generics from the auto store, and they could double as the controller perch. I do like the look of the cutout project box and it seems to suit your style. If your hands are without controller or beer, isn't it some sort of penalty anyway? LOL


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## Scafremon (Dec 11, 2006)

Must.....mow.....lawns.

but.....I CAN'T STOP RACING MY LIL CARS!   

I decided to get rid of the chicanes, and I replaced them with a lazy "S" set of curves. I really like it much better. The "S" requires a bit more driving then the chicanes did. I may slide the "S" one way or the other, but for now, I really like it.

I also softened the corner at the end (or starting) of the inside straight.

The track races great in both directions, except for the detail I need to do on the 6" radius curves.

Color Me Happy!  

I'm going to kick this layout around for a few days, then probably go ahead and formalize it with multiple power taps and screw it down.

I love the fact that I now have a race-able track, plus, I still have lots of work left to do on it - power, borders, painting, car-tuning, elevations/overpasses, etc. This is an awesome hobby - how come you guys didn't tell me about it sooner?!






FOR SALE: (1) Racor Lift - Can be used to raise a slot-car track to the ceiling. Almost new. Selling because I no longer have a need for it. Will trade for car covers. :wave:


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## 1976Cordoba (Sep 20, 2000)

Good idea ditching those squiggles in the middle. They are a neat-looking aspect but people will have more fun racing through that "S" sweep I think.

I tried the squiggles on my original design and even with 15" & 18" turns they just weren't that much fun, hence my one big chicane on the backstretch now.

'doba


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## Crimnick (May 28, 2006)

Heh heh...wait till you get your hands on a supermag car...


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## Manning (Mar 2, 2004)

A good running TJet needs a 90-120 ohm controller. Parma makes a 90 ohm controller that works well. I have two......

I also think that bone stock SG+'s work better with 60 ohm controllers. When you put good rear hubs and silicone tires on the back, the 45 ohm will be better. And if you really slam the thing to the track, a 35 becomes better. 

You can make controller adjustable for resistance by putting resitors in parallel with the main one, and have it switched. Rule of thumb is to double the main resistor value for the add-on resistor, and when it is switched into the circuit, you will have a resistance about 50% less that what is stock. Works really well. My 90 ohm parmas have two 100 ohm ceramics that are switched, and that makes for a 60 ohm controller when needed. You don't want to get crazy with the add-on resistor because it will cause the controller to be non-linear (goes really fast initially, then doesn't make much difference towards WOT). I also have a 45 ohm with a 100 ohm resistor on a switch that makes for about 35 ohm controller.


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## Scafremon (Dec 11, 2006)

Thanks for the controller tips. I would really prefer to not have a whole slew of controllers, and those adjustable ones are too expensive for me at the moment. Making my own adjustable controller is something I will research more. It also sounds like the stock Tomy controllers I have may serve me better on the T-Jets for the time being.


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## Scafremon (Dec 11, 2006)

Where to install lap-counter track?

On my layout, is there a no-brainer place on where I should put my lap-counter? I'm thinking it is position "A" as noted on the attached, but would like confirmation.

If there are multiple locations that would be suitable, are places like D, E, and F on the attached suitable? If I could keep my lap counter on this table, then I don't have to include a connection at my table split.

Thanks for your input.


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

If you want controller tips ,try here.
Steve pretty well has everything here,that you can do to a Parma.

http://home.comcast.net/~medanic/Tech-Parma.htm


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## mking (Apr 25, 2000)

*jeff, you dont want a lap counter.....*

you want a computer timing system. you want a light bar, some shareware timing software, and an old computer. you have the slot car bug bad, and your not gonna be happy just counting laps. your gonna want to time your laps, so you can tweak your cars, and see how much of an impact that had on your laps times. i use greg brauns software and hardware i bought off ebay (i bought greg brauns hardware but i never got it working right, i didnt have adequate lighting). 

laptiming software: http://slotcars.carlsoncomputers.com/store/noorder.asp

http://www.cenobyte.nl/slotracemanager/

http://www.hoslotcarracing.com/ (greg braun)

http://www.trackmateracing.com/ (trackmate)


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## mking (Apr 25, 2000)

*hey jeff*

what kind of cars do you have? just the Super G+ and the AW Tjet? i may need to put some cars in your care package, you NEED a tomy SRT, a tomy turbo, some lifelikes, a 440x2, an original tjet, a marchon, a wizzard, an artin etc etc.....

and how about some lexan bodies?


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## Scafremon (Dec 11, 2006)

mking said:


> you want a computer timing system.


Hi Mike. 
I did say 'lap-counter', but I really did mean a 'lap timer'.  

I have Greg's software. I started out going the LED method, but the light-sensors at Radio Shack are 5mm, and I feel they are too big, unless I shave away plastic under the track. My local electronics place can get similar sensors in the 3mm version, but I also found magnetic reed switches there for 30 cents each, so I am trying that method.

On Saturday, I successfully broke all 8 of my little glass reed switches, mostly when trying to get them situated correctly under the track. Later I realized I need to use much smaller wire to connect these. I was using some 20ga solid, and as I would bend the wire to get the reed positioned, I would snap the glass, or dis-orientate the contacts inside. I bought (16) more of the lil puppies on Sunday, along with some 24ga stranded, so I will attempt this again this week.

BTW, I decided on position "A" on my track to locate the timing track.

On Sunday, I made up all (7) of my power tap tracks (14 track pieces total) That pretty much took me a full day to make the tracks and drill the holes in my table for them. 

Once I get my lap timing tracks made and placed I will have all my 'fixed-location tracks' in place, and I will dis-assemble the layout, and put it back together using the grease stuff at the connections. I will screw down the track, and then keep working on the list of enhancements to make.


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## Scafremon (Dec 11, 2006)

mking said:


> what kind of cars do you have? just the Super G+ and the AW Tjet? i may need to put some cars in your care package, you NEED a tomy SRT, a tomy turbo, some lifelikes, a 440x2, an original tjet, a marchon, a wizzard, an artin etc etc.....
> 
> and how about some lexan bodies?


It is true - I have only the single AW T-Jet, and all the Super G+ cars that came in the various Tomy track sets I bought. I have been concentrating on getting the track built for now, but I have also been trying to learn about the other car options that are out there. I still have a lot to learn about the cars (I thought my AW T-Jet was a 440x2 chassis...I'm guessing now it isn't).

I did buy Bob Beers' book on Aurora cars, and also the book by...name escapes me...on the Tyco cars, but I admittedly have not sat down to really go through them. I was waiting to get a basic understanding of the cars first. And a track so I could see the performance differences.

As for the care package, I was totally impressed with your offer of sending me a tire and an axle for my T-Jet to check out. If you were to send more then that, I would hope there is something I can send back in exchange. Do you have a need for some Super G+'s....or 9" 90 degree Tomy track pieces? (Thats about all I have in excess slot car stuff at this time).


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## Crimnick (May 28, 2006)

The reeds work fine with magnet cars...but they might not pick up x-tracktions unless you slam them...and they wont pick up T-jets...


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## vaBcHRog (Feb 19, 2003)

Crimnick said:


> The reeds work fine with magnet cars...but they might not pick up x-tracktions unless you slam them...and they wont pick up T-jets...


The *right* reeds will work with almost any car out there, TJETS, T+ JL XT's etc. I have reeds on both my tracks and they work great. And reeds are much easier to model with as you do not need the light bridge.


Roger Corrie


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## micyou03 (Apr 8, 2003)

vaBcHRog said:


> The *right* reeds will work with almost any car out there, TJETS, T+ JL XT's etc. I have reeds on both my tracks and they work great. And reeds are much easier to model with as you do not need the light bridge.
> 
> 
> Roger Corrie



What are the right reed switches?


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

Do a search through old posts,as this has been discussed fairly recently.
My reed switches work on T-jets just great.
Miniatronics Corp reed switches ,model #32-N58-05


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## Scafremon (Dec 11, 2006)

I did some bench tests tonight on the reed switches I had purchased, and the results were not encouraging.

This is a pic of the .30c critter I was buying



When mounted under the track between the guide-pin slot and the rail, with the contacts parallel or perpendicular to the track surface, I could not get my T-Jet or a Super G+ to close the contacts.

When mounted outside of the rail (as in the following photo), the T-Jet would not close the contacts, but the Super G+ would, regardless of orientation of contacts.



(I did have the reed switch wired up for the tests).

I then tried just floating the reed switch in the air, and seeing if I could get the T-Jet to close the contacts. Still no luck. 



These tests were performed in a room of laboratory qualities:



I'm going to stop by a Model Train hobby shop this week and look at their reed switches. I imagine they are like the Miniatronics ones, since they told me over the phone they were $8.95 for a package of 5, including some small magnets. Otherwise, I'll just buy the miniatronics ones


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

They're probably the same reed switches,as mine come from the local train hobby store.
Look around for SwamperGene's picture on mounting a nail head between the reed switches,it's a worthwhile upgrade to your reed switches


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## Scafremon (Dec 11, 2006)

I went to the model train store today, and picked up the reed switches. They are the same ones that Hornet stated, made by Miniatronics.



They are much smaller (more sensitive?) then the other reed switches I tried.



I am very pleased to report that these puppies work, just like Hornet said they would. My TJet registered laps just as the Super G+ did. I only tested them in one position and one orientation: between slot and rail, and parallel to the track. That was enough for me.

Thanks Hornet, and I will be using the Swamper Gene's nail-flux-collector trick.


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## Crimnick (May 28, 2006)

Most excellent...I gladly retract my earlier statement...and make note of the manufacturer for future reference... :thumbsup:


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

No problem. :thumbsup: 
Just be careful handling the little buggers as they are very fragile.


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## micyou03 (Apr 8, 2003)

Thanks for the info Hornet and Scafremon.


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## Scafremon (Dec 11, 2006)

The lap timer is well on it's way.

I soldered some 22ga stranded pigtails to the ends of the reed switches. I then put some heat-shrink over the solder connections, so that you guys would not be embarrassed by my incredible soldering skilz.  Hot glued them to the track, and put a SwamperGene nail in between 'em.



Since the timing track is across the table split I picked up a 6-wire molex connector to have an easy connection between the tables. I'll cut this in half, and connect one side to the wires from the reed switches. The other side I will run some wires over to where my transformers are located. On that end I will connect this 25pin female thingy I bought, which has solder cups on one side, and which I have already soldered some short leads to. This 25pin thing will connect to the parallel printer cable extension which connects to the computer.



Once I have the fixed mounted wiring done for the timing system, and finish some wiring I need to do for the power tap tracks, I will pull all the track up, do some mods to the table, and then start to place each track piece for the final installation.


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## mking (Apr 25, 2000)

*hey jeff*

having trouble with my email again, and i need your mailing address (it got aut deleted from my in box; grrrr)

mike


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## Tycoarm (Jan 7, 2006)

This whole lap counting lap timing process is something I'm going to have to get started on soon.
While I don't have a clue in whats involved, this is where I will have to seek advice from those of you who have been there and done it.
I hope the reed switches work out, as it looks like I will go that route as well.

Scaf, your track has come a long way since the start, I've been kind of stuck at the moment with mine, I just had a friend in the construction biz drop of a bunch of scraps of pink insulation foam so I'm back in business.


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## Scafremon (Dec 11, 2006)

I accomplished alot this past weekend, but the latest photos don't really show much has changed.

First I pulled up all the track from table, and did some cleaning up. Using a round file, I cleaned up all the holes I had drilled for the power tap wires and the lap timing wires. I also rounded the corners of the table to make it a little bit easier to walk around the table and not bump it, or have your coat catch a table wall and pull it up.

(This pic shows the rounded corners, after I layed down the track)



The rounded corners have forced me to rethink my gutter guard-vinyl cap-popsicle stick table walls, as they do not like to make the turn around the corners. It's the vinyl cap that is causing the problem, so I may use capless pieces of gutter guard at the corners.

I finished all the wiring (Yah Hoo!!!!!)....well, finished 'running' all the wire - still need to tidy it up a bit, as you can see in this pic of the table split area.



The lowest group of dangling wires are the ones I ran from the lap timing track. The following pic shows the smaller 22 ga wire coming from the reed switches down to a terminal block. 



There is (1) wire on the left for each lane, and the common sides of the reed switches are paired into two spade connectors to the terminal block. I jumpered the commons at the terminal block, and then used 16ga wire (just because I have lots of it) to run from the bottom of the terminal block around the table, where I spliced it to a molex connector for the table split.

After the split, I ran wire down to the end of table where my power transformers are, and dangled my 25pin connector which connects to the parallel printer cable.



The next pic shows a typical power track tap under the table. The wires I used to attach to the track were 24" long, and I am going to leave them this length, for possible future track layouts. So other then tie-wrapping them up a tad, I am not going to cut them to fit this particular area.



In the rear of the above pic you can see a power tap that came down on the inside of my 2x4 framing. I drilled a hole through the 2x4 and connected these wires to a TB on other side of 2x4. 

I used the grease stuff at every track rail connection before reconnecting them. Next step is to fix my table wall situation, and screw down the track.

The reed switches seem to be working good for the cars I have tried (Super G+ and a T-Jet). I say 'seem' because on the first night, I thought the Super G's were going too fast over the reed switches and I was missing laps. But last night, I tried each lane for 20+ laps, and it never missed a single one. T-Jet is ringing up lap counts without problem. 

I'm not sure if it would be unorthodox, but if I were to do it again, I might put my lap counter track on a small straight in a slower part of the layout, to hopefully eliminate speed being an issue with tripping the reed switches.


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## TGtycopro (Jun 1, 2006)

You are being watched!!!!! :wave: Probobly didnt know it did ya LOL

Youve done a great Job on this paying excellent attention to detail as youve built...........so much so I woulda guessed you were an alchoholic except an alchoholic wouldnt be beyond the table building stage 

I almost jumped in at 1 point but decided to wait and see what you would do. I was glad to see this:


> I don't plan on soldering track joints because I think I will want to modify the layout in the future (add elevations, and maybe re-layout the track). Plus, my soldering skills are nil as I found out yesterday.


In all my Model railroading years ive seen alot of layouts and those with the most trouble are those that are soldered...........Its simple physics, expansion/contraction area is needed PERIOD......Oh, there are a few that have gotten away with it, but its a very few compared to those who regretted it.
This is why TRACK in a model rr is NOT soldered and power taps (or feeders as they are called in that hobby) are used aprox every 3' for the ambitious and 8-10' for the rest of the world. These feeders are then run to a common Buss Line.
Granted, Slotcar track is different in its wiring needs but it is NOT differant in that it expands and contracts and it does so far more under the conditions your track will be in....A GARAGE!!!!

You done good Scaf and I see a future of real enjoyment instead of real headaches..........By the way, did you ever look into the dead strip method of lap counting /timing??
Just curious 
Todd


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## Scafremon (Dec 11, 2006)

Thank you Todd.

Bulding this table and track has been extremely enjoyable. And even though it has reached a certain stage of completion, I'm excited that there is still lots more work to be done on it....and concurrently, I can start learning about the cars. (More on this subject in another thread to start soon)  

As I was getting close to the stage where actually racing cars was within sight, I feel I strayed some from the detail. I think I could have done a better job of laying down the track (eliminating gaps between tracks), but that is ok. Revisiting the track layout is something that I look forward to doing, after I get a few months of track time on current layout.

I did not look into dead strips. The reed switches are working perfectly, at least with LapTimer 2000. I can't seem to get Ultimate Racer to work yet though - not that the reed switches are the issue - I think it is some setting somewhere. I really enjoy LT2000, but would like software that records a better history of cars, drivers, lanes, and track direction.

Since posting last, I painted my lanes. I know many people do not care for lane striping, but right now I like the look. 





I did a quickie modification to my table walls to get them bend around the corners. It works, and I can clean it up some, but they are not the 'tear-down-easy walls that I want and need. I went ahead and ordered (8) table-tennis nets at $4.75 ea, and I think they might work out better then the gutter guard/vinyl capping. But for now, I can race.



I'm testing out the modeling clay as a means to fill the gaps between tracks.



I kinda like it, but before I start doing the whole track, I'm going to think about it more.

Tonight, I am going to dissassemble the tables, and raise them to the roof. I know I will be taking them down tomorrow, but I need to prove to myself that on occassion I will actually put away the table. 

Then again, maybe next weekend would be a better time to raise the table - I think I want to race late tonight.


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## coach61 (Sep 6, 2004)

Looking good scarf, I think on a racing layout like yours lane marking is a absolute. I would hate to be the guy racing going "No the other lane! No not that other lane the next one as the poor Cornel marshel gets a slot going full bore into the back of his knuckles...


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

It just keeps gettin' better Scaf! When I look at your great layout I also remember how sweet the unseen portion is as well.


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## Slott V (Feb 3, 2005)

Just be real careful with those small reeds. I have them too for my staging beams on the LED tower and also to trigger the mini photo flashes in the grandstands. They work well but if you have to remove the track for any reason it's real easy to break the reed loose inside the glass by moving the wire around and then it's useless.


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## Scafremon (Dec 11, 2006)

Coach:

I totally agree. My racing buddies are pretty much going to be non-slot-car-people, and I think the lane markings will help us all have a more enjoyable time racing and marshalling.

Bill:

Ty very much  Of course, I don't post the pictures of the poor work I did on the track.........actually, I do...well, some of it.

Scott:

Yep, those lil guys are pretty fragile. When I was using the 30 cent ones, I was pretty lax in how I handled them (and busted most all of them). But these guys are a couple bucks or so each, not to mention the effort that goes into placing them. I really need to reinstall the track the houses these reed switches (due to the curve of the 15" straights), but I'm pretty sure I will bust a switch or two if I pressure the wires, so I am delaying that work.


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## Scafremon (Dec 11, 2006)

Bill Hall said:


> As far as the beer holders go I'd get some of the small diameter generics from the auto store, and they could double as the controller perch.


Hey Bill.

I'm not sure if these are the type of holders you were thinking of, but these are what I was envisioning from your suggestion. 



Pep boyz wanted almost $3 for one of this type, but I found these at Wal-M priced at four for $2. They were going to be kind of floppy, so I found some angle brackets in my garage to rigid them up.



While the beer holder could potentially double as a controller perch (since I can't envision ever setting down the controller AND the beer at same time), there are those occassions where you might be finishing off one brew, and have an iced one waiting in the wings, err, holder.

So also at Wal-M I found these plastic trays, three for a buck. I think they are used in drawers for utensils.



Some flat black paint and sealer improved the look some, and some conduit hooks I found lying around served well for the mounting.



Not bad for $6 out of pocket. Thanks for the idea!


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## mking (Apr 25, 2000)

*hey scaf*

looking at your track, it seems like red lane would be fast and blue lane would be much tougher. how much do lap times in blue and red vary using a super g (or the racing 440x2?)

mike


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## Scafremon (Dec 11, 2006)

Mike,

I don't have much of a database yet to draw from. Although LT2000 says is reports practice laps in the "Hot Laps" database, I don't think that is working for me. All the testing I have been doing is in practice mode, and I know some of the laps I did (such as with the 440X2 racer) are not in the database.

The 'races' I have done, and which all were with the Super G+ Formula cars, the best laps are as follows:

Clockwise
Green - 6.5
Yellow - 7.0
Orange (looks red) - 7.1
Blue - 7.5

Counter-Clockwise
Green - 6.6
Yellow - 6.7
Orange - 6.8
Blue - 7.1

The above is based on approx (10) 3 minute races per lane.

With the 440X2, I did a 5.7 without much trouble (I forget which lane - seemed like it could do that and more on any lane), and my neighbor (whom I beat consistantly - tyvm) did a 5.5 with it after just about 5 laps. He also popped a shoe off during a crash, so I made him go home.  (I was able to get the shoe back on, and car seems to be running just as good as before - but you may want to make sure I did ok with the repair when I return it).

So you were right, in that the blue lane is a bear, but the inside lanes are the predominatly faster lanes so far. The orange lane has a couple inside 6R's to navigate, making it tougher for me in the turns.


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## BewstdGT (Jan 4, 2005)

Well Jeff you caught up with me and blew past me all at once. That setup looks like a blast to race on. I really like the layout so far. You did a nice job on the diring schematics and painting the lanes as well. Something I still need to do! SO MUCH TO DO SO LITTLE TIME!!

If it makes you feel any better I havnt figured out my lap timing setup either.


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

That looks great Scaf. Neat and tidy like all your stuff! Sounds low buck too. Definately a win/win. I really like the lil' baskets for the controllers. 

On a related note, I was invited to a race saturday on Marty Bauer's awesome new Brystal track. Unfortunately there was no place to set the controllers yet. He's not quite finished. I was borrowing other peoples controllers, who were kind enough to let me sample the various styles. It was very nerve racking. No room on the table cuz the front chute was right up on the edge. No shelf, or hook below. Shouldnt let those $200 and $300 wands swing on the gator clips either. Especially when they're not yours.  In spite of my controller anxiety it was a phenomenal experience. 

Looks like all you need is a septic tube runnin outside so I can siphon off some used coolant. I'd never have to leave my seat.  

BH


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## martybauer31 (Jan 27, 2004)

Yeah, I may have to steal that plastic Wal-Mart tray idea from you Scaf. When I have Bill over again, I can't have him freaking out about where he puts the controller! It admittedly freaks me out too... :tongue: 

Like Bill says, mine isn't quite finished yet, but I will be posting pics once I get a little closer.

I will say your track is looking great!


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## Scafremon (Dec 11, 2006)

A week ago I took apart the track and raised it to it's ceiling home while the wife and I went on a mini-vacation. Today I was anxious to get it back down, but wanted to find another place to set it up, other then the garage. Inside the house wasn't really an option, and weather forecast says clear and high 60's for next 5 days.

The wife is away today, so I started thinking.....

There is a spot in the backyard that I think would work good, but moving the tables into the back would be a chore. It would be even harder to get them back to the garage if my wife freaks out at the site of the track back there. So I decided on our entryway. Here is the before pic:



This is looking from inside the house. The entry gate from the front yard is in the back right of photo. 

The next pic is looking in from the gate (as Annika attempts an escape).



This is how it looks now:



I'm not sure how well this is going to go over with my wife. The track is just barely visible from outside the gate, but it is a much larger object then I had envisioned.



I bought some tarps to cover the track when not in use, but I'm sure that being outdoors is not real healthy for the track, wiring, terminal blocks, etc. If we do get a weather front moving in, I can break the track down and get it inside the garage within an hour, but for normal So Cal weather, I'm hoping I can leave it outdoors the majority of the time.

I'm anxious to hear from anyone that has experience with tracks that have been set-up outdoors.

I've named the back straight 'Ocean Avenue'.


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

Hey Scaf, if your worried about exposed underboard elecricals out of doors. Try some automotive ignition sealer. That's what it's for! Comes in an Aerosol can. Doesnt take much, just a light film. A dab 'll do ya!

Take a few practice passes on some cardboard. It drys almost instantly. Good stuff!


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## sethndaddy (Dec 4, 2004)

tarps or not, your probably still going to get terrible oxidation and dust. kick the wife out and set it up in the living room, LOL (yeah sure, I would do it)


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## TK Solver (Mar 18, 2004)

I'd be concerned about hard landings when cars fly off the table.


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## Scafremon (Dec 11, 2006)

Racing Under the Stars lasted all of one evening.  

"Anywhere but there" were her exact words. 

I investigated indoor and backyard options, but for now, the track is back in the garage. I must admit, it was an eyesore in our atrium-entryway. 

One thing that was interesting:

When I removed the tarps from the track this morning, the track was cracklin' like popcorn, no doubt due the temperature change it was experiencing like SlottV mentioned prior.


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## Manning (Mar 2, 2004)

My track also does the "snap/crackle/pop" when I first lower it from the wall. It's out in the garage as well..


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## TGtycopro (Jun 1, 2006)

OPTIONS
#1 - Build a HOBBY SHED -20 x 24 should be about right 

#2 - Rent Space, advertise for club members & share cost among members

#3 - Spare Bedroom - NO from wife is an Unnacceptable answer....Dont ASK Just DO!!
(she'll either get over it or she's ALL WRONG FOR YOU  )


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## Scafremon (Dec 11, 2006)

Hobby Shed - I'd love to build one, but I don't have the real estate for one. 

Rent Space - If I ever find (or can grow) a local interest in HO slot car racing, this might be an option.

Spare Bedroom - Unfortunatly, don't have one  

The good news is that her "Anywhere but there" did bring about one option: A semi permanent garage set-up. 

Since the track tables are on wheels, I can move them to one side of the garage and get one car in. 
The issue had been- who's car is the lucky car. Now, issue resolved.


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## Scafremon (Dec 11, 2006)

I made a major change to my track today.

There were some things I didn't like about my track layout. A big issue for me were the gaps between the two tracks. These gaps were avoidable, but in my haste to get the track set-up I let then slide. 

I believe there were two main factors that attributed to the gaps: the inherent curve to many Tomy 15" straights, and a track design that left too large a gap to compensate for.

Regarding the curve to the 15" straights, when I was making my numerous power-tap tracks on my 15" straights, I did not pay attention to the slight curve on these straights. I drilled holes in my table based on the location of the wires dangling from my power-taps, and in some instances the side-by-side pair of 15" power-tap straights were flaring away from each other. This created a gap that was not easily overcome when attaching additional track pieces.

Regarding the design, my design had about a 3" offset to overcome. This was way too much. The offset wasn't this great when I started laying track, but the issues with the non-straight 15" pieces resulted in this disparity. 

Another issue I had with my layout is that it seemed to be 'fast with deslot areas', as opposed to 'fast with technical areas'. I think the percentage between the two types of tracks was not balanced correctly. Instead of looking forward to a part of the track where you can punch it, you were dreading the part of the track where you were prone to deslot.

Because of the above, I have been thinking about redesigning my layout. Today, I did so.


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## Scafremon (Dec 11, 2006)

I decided to go with a 2-lane design. 

(Stops to swat away the eggs being tossed at him).  

I guess I just don't have as many friends as you guys have.  

Basically it is just me and a neighbor that are racing on the track, and the "Hey - why don't we mix things up and race on blue and yellow tonight!" was just not cutting it. 

"Now...reverse!"

"Ok!"

yawn.....


I'm exagerating some here, but the basic point is that I have these 2 4x8 tables of track, and I think we can have more fun then we currently are.

So today, I took all the track off the table. I went to Greg Braun's site, and chose the Whitewater Farms 65 design. Since this was a 2-lane design for a single 4x8, I duplicated it onto the other 4x8 table I have, and figured out a way to link them.


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## Crimnick (May 28, 2006)

*grabs an egg*

er...nah...why waste perfectly good colesterol...

Scaf...that is an AWESOME layout...and most definately...build a track for yourself...and not simply one that is "the norm"... :thumbsup: 

Since it's only going to be you and one other...or even you and a couple friends...a two lane is plenty...

Looks to me as there is a huge opportunity for some REAL landscaping...elevation changes...canyon switch backs...hand made detailed bridges....etc...

Looks like a california canyon highway like 92 the cuts from san mateo to half moon bay...

Maybe use three layers of 2" foam as your base elevation...and cut away layers into the canyons with switchbacks in the bowls...the highpoint would till only be 6" plus track...but the effect would be very cool indeed...

even one of the tracks in our club is only two lanes....when we race there it's head to head with double elimination...worked fine with ten people...lose one race...go to the loser braket...


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

Didnt let any grass grow under your feet, did ya? Looks like the big cars are gonna stay outside for a while. LOL. 

Now that is something completely different. I got lost just trying imagine where my car is at. 

Really cool Scaf. You powered up yet?

Bill


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## BewstdGT (Jan 4, 2005)

That would be hard to follow a faster car on that track but props for spending the time to put all that together. It looks pretty cool too.


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## Scafremon (Dec 11, 2006)

Thanks for the comments guys. 

I'm going to seriously consider doing the (3) 2" layers of foam, and building down from there. I'm having trouble visualizing it at this point, but I think if I get something started, it will flow from there. Correct me if I am wrong, but I'm thinking I would not need to put wood between the track and the foam. Also, if I recess the track 1/4" into the foam, can the foam serve as an outside border for the cars to slide onto?

I can't even think about running a non-mag tjet type car on this layout until I get some slide borders, and there are so many curves, it would be a huge undertaking to cut mdf borders on the outsides of them all.

I powered up the track last night, and I can honestly say my neighbor and I had 10-fold more fun on this layout then my previous. We are deslotting way less on this track. Part of this is the newness of the layout, and we are not real comfortable with it yet, but I think a bigger factor is simply that the layout requires more patience. 

There are a lot of curves to navigate on the infield, so if you slow down too much for one and your competitor passes you, it isn't panic time, because you have a lot more opportunities to make it up on the same lap. On the prior setup, it might take a few laps to get back one mental error, and this usually resulted in too agressive driving, and a deslot.

One interesting thing about power. I am only using a single power tap to each lane, each on it's own wall-wart, and I am not noticing any power loss around the track. This layout is about 125' per lane, and my previous was 65'. We have only run super G+ and SRT's so far.

Like Bill and Dan mentioned, it can be tough to keep your eye on your car, and there are a couple blind spots for each driver station, but it isn't enough to dampen the fun. You can also get confused when you are in the infield about where on the layout you are. Am I coming up to another tight corner, or am I on my way onto the fast straight? A few laps help to get a rythm going, but a lapse in concentration, or changing lanes, or reversing direction starts the learning process over again.

All in all, I can't see myself going back to a 4-lane setup on these tables. However, I could see myself building an additional track, one that would be 4 lanes, over 20' long, and designed for running those real fast magnet cars. But that will be something for the future. For right now, running 2 long lanes is much more fun for me then the shorter 4 lane track was.


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## Crimnick (May 28, 2006)

Scaf...One of my plans on doing the foam underlayment for elevations includes a double layers of thin wood to mount the track on...like 1/8" paneling for example...

stagger the joints....use liquid nails to secure it to the foam...and the top layer to the bottom....

The first layer is thin enough to smoothly follow elevation changes...the second layer makes it strong enough and thick enough to use screws or even brad nails to secure the track in place...

This way the channels only need to be good enough to secure the wood strips...not smooth enough to get track to lay flat...

You could even cut the foam channels completly verticle and use foam blocks every foot or so to secure the wood to for elevation changes...

This would save a lot of foam hacking trying to get smooth channels...

When you are ready for the perminate adhesion...start glueing down the bottom pieces and then glue the other pieces on top...

Mark all your finished pice with a sharpy so you know where they go when you start gluing...

If you cut your bottom track mounting wood an inch or two wider in the sections you want slide room...it would be very easy to then back fill the slider areas with putty,bondo, vinyl floor patch, or even drywall mud....and then paint it to match the track...or even paint it grey to look like gravel ...

All the striaght sections could be easily cut on a table saw...and the curve sections with a sabersaw...simply stagger the joints a couple inches....and use liquid nails to glue them down...

This should provide very smooth flowing elevation changes that look natural in the landscaping rather than looking like ramps....


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## Scafremon (Dec 11, 2006)

Scafremon said:


> All in all, I can't see myself going back to a 4-lane setup on these tables.


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## RiderZ (Feb 19, 2007)

No matter which setup you run(2-lane or 4-lane) your having fun-thats all that matters!!!I went fom a nice 2-lane setup to a four-lane.I was hoping to get a few more friends involved and have a place to race.So far we've only had all four lanes going once!  Regardless im having a ton of fun.


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## BewstdGT (Jan 4, 2005)

Ya know bud I dont like the looks of that last track but on the other hand it looks like a really fun track to race on. Ever notice how the tacks that are the most fun to race on dont always turn out to be the best "looking" layouts? Looks pretty cool Jeff, just keep at it. You will figure it out sooner or later. Scary, I went with my very first design and you are still tinkering.


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## Scafremon (Dec 11, 2006)

I'm kind of getting frustrated with all these track redesigns I am doing.  

I really do want to get to the point where the layout is done, and I can concentrate on borders, some level of landscaping, and then start fiddling with tuning cars.

Here's a recap of thoughts on the (3) tracks I have done.

First Track (the 4-lane jobber which most of this thread was based on):

The layout was fun to race with magnet cars. There were not enough curves to make it fun with non-mag cars. I did not do a good job assembling track pieces, so it needed to be torn down, even if it was just to re-assemble it, with maybe a couple minor track changes.

2-Lane Track

Fun to race with magnet cars. May have been fun for non-mag cars, but without borders, I really couldn't run them. The long overpass was not sturdy, primarily because I was using box-set bridges. A lot of work would be needed to build some real bridge supports, and add borders. I don't mind the work, but I didn't want to invest the money and effort if I wasn't completly sold on the track layout. I didn't like that I 'mirrored' the same basic layout on each table (I think I am a little more creative then that). 

Current 4-Lane Track

Saw picture of it on the internet last night. Liked the idea of the straights running diagonally. The actual track used underpasses instead of overpasses (cut down through the table), and camber on the esses.





They run tjets, and I think it would be fun with them. Mag cars were no fun on it. It doesn't really fit my tables - a couple areas are right up to the edge if not overhanging a tad. I won't have this layout very long (may take it up tomorrow).

I need to get focused on what I really want. The issue is, I believe that I want to concentrate on non-mag cars, and so I want a track suited for them. At same time, I want a track that can still offer some challenges for mag cars, and not just hold the trigger in one place. 

The problem is that I while I have a couple tjets (one tuned by Mike King, one stocker) and they seem to have the potential to be a lot of fun, so far, they are just frustrating. I can't run them in the gutters on a 4-lane, or at all on a 2-lane w/o borders. Even on center tracks of a 4-lane, I have to crawl them around the corners, and almost stop before entering a corner to prevent a slide-out. Cleaning the track and tires helps a tad, but I still think that I am missing something, and I am wondering.....

Are my Tomy Wall-warts too much voltage to run tjets? They put out 21.5 volts. I'm ready to spend the $100 on a regulated variable power supply, if in fact reducing the voltage will make these cars run better. Will running tjets at 16-18 volts make me realize their full fun potential?

In summary, I want a design that is suitable for both mag and non-mag cars, but maybe 70-30 in favor of non-mag. I like the look of 4 lanes better then 2 lanes, but I like the extra track length and variations available by using just 2 lanes. 4-lanes also will let me run tjets while I work on borders and such.

I appreciate your comments and input, especially on my power supply question above.


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## TGtycopro (Jun 1, 2006)

Scaf, ive said it before and I'll say it again...........Sometimes youve got to QUIT thinking and START Building.
This will not be the last layout you ever build but NO layout gets built THINKING About the Perfect plan........theres No such thing, theres only Different.

You need to gain experience at ALL facets of building a permanent and the only way to do that is to go from Start to finish.

While you Finish your first one you can begin to Plan your next track but even then you will not know what's perfect for you until you race for awhile and on Different circuits. You will learn Alot from your own however.

I like version 4 So Start Building it already.........Once you complete your first track you will have a lot of items that can be re-used on the next one saving alot of time on the next build.
Once built and run in for 2 years you will begin to KNOW what you like and dont like and ONLY Then will you be able to come close to what you feel is YOUR perfect layout.

BUILD IT and THEY WILL COME

half the funs in the building.........the other half is racing through a scenic layout.

Me, I am not in any hurry to get mine finished because building is 80% of the fun for me.........I may finish mine and tear it out within 3 - 6 months and build a new one.......Or I may keep it while I build a model RR and then tear it out after the RR is built and build a new one.............

It Seems Building layouts is my hobby 

You WILL learn alot from this first build, but i gaurantee it will not be your last so dont overthink this thing or all you will end up with is the nicest non permanent unsceniced tabletop raceway on the planet and I'm pretty sure that is not what you are after


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## TGtycopro (Jun 1, 2006)

PS - try adding some weight to those non mag cars!!


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## mking (Apr 25, 2000)

*Hi Jeff*

The people I race with use 20-21 volts for T-jets and either really high ohm Parma’s (90-120) or electronic controllers with a lot of sensitivity adjustment (in fact, the guys I race with have 1 (or more in MartyB’s case) high end electronic controller just for tjets, and 1 (or more in MartyB's case ) high end controller for magnet cars. 



Controller-it-is is a recognized addiction. It can be cured by buying 2 each of every known controller. The symptoms will then disappear, until a new controller is seen or heard of. Guess what the cure is then? 


Personally, I am several controllers away from being cured


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## martybauer31 (Jan 27, 2004)

You know Mike, you're starting to really tick me off, stop telling everyone all my secrets!!!!  

Ok, so I have 2 electronic controllers for my magnets cars... BUT, I only have 1 controller for my t-jets, my Difalco. Oh wait, I just ordered a controller from Steve Godinez, my bad.... :thumbsup: We won't mention the other DR-40, Difalco, or Dunlap controllers that I have sold in the past. Hmmm, I think I have a problem with controller-it-is, I better go get another one, no matter what Mike tells you, he owns WAY more controllers than I do.  

I can't help myself, I LOVE TOYS!!!!!!!



mking said:


> The people I race with use 20-21 volts for T-jets and either really high ohm Parma’s (90-120) or electronic controllers with a lot of sensitivity adjustment (in fact, the guys I race with have 1 (or more in MartyB’s case) high end electronic controller just for tjets, and 1 (or more in MartyB's case ) high end controller for magnet cars.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

*2 Cents*

Just following along Mikes last post. I've had the privilege of sampling everone's controllers at recent events. I've also had the benefits of their expertise regarding settings and application. 

I had no previous experience or bias', so my observations are fairly objective. For high ohm cars the Trek Lawler electronic two wire unit was the cats meow! The sensitivity range was very nice. The adjustment pot faces you during operation and is easy to fiddle on the fly. The overall feel/action of the trigger was light and smooth with little or no fatigue during constant blipping. Although it was a right handed unit, (I'm a lefty) Trek's controller was easy to operate with my weird finger over the pot left handed grip. A very light touch excellent controller. My first choice.

For the zippy low ohm cars, the two/three wire standard Dana was the hands down winner. Once you learn the settings it was a joy to use. I've found that the fancy wands with all the whistles and bells can be a bit top heavy (poor... er I mean poorer Marty!) and produce some hand fatigue after a few minutes. The design of the Dana's exterior board and adjustment pots is such that it counterbalances the extra weight back over your thumb. Unquestionably the best static balance of the high end "magic wands" I've used. Due to careful attention in the design, the Dana seemed light and easy to operate with no no hand fatigue. A little heavier on the trigger as it is a resistor model, but not overly so. Sensitivity was great. Also of note is the overall neat appearance and rugged construction. The Dana is a high quality well thought out unit! Comes in a full electronic three wire only version also. 

So there you have it Scaf, my rookie picks/preferences and analysis of the controller forest. I've been blessed to have the patient and generous help from some great PacNW guys. I now have a better idea of where and what to spend my controller $ on.

PS: I'd stay away from any unit with boxes and add ons (other than an in line fuse) in the leads. Very distracting!


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## Scafremon (Dec 11, 2006)

Dang.

I was really hoping you guys were going to come back with a "You need to run tjets at 18volts and that will solve your ills". I have a feeling that a $100 power supply would be much less expensive then the prescribed cure for controller-itis. 

Oh yea.... as for more other illness....

I rebuilt the track again yesterday.


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

Unfortunately lowering the voltage on your system will not help other than to slow you down. Regardless of voltage the response of your controller characteristics will remain the same. 

It's all about the response requirement of the armature. Take a stock T-jet with a 40 ohm controller. It would be manageable on and oval or simple layout, but you'll be upside down, on fire and hangin' on the guardrail on a more technical track. The armature needs those missing forty ohms to make the car tractible on the bottom end.

Now take a modified T-jet with a 6 ohm arm and stronger mags and try to run it on an 80 ohm controller. 1/3 to 1/2 of the trigger is useless. It doesnt respond to the extra 40 ohms on the bottom. It'll be sluggish at first and launch/start responding just before you wall plant.

I'm gonna squeal pretty loud when I have to cough up over 5 bills for the wands, but I gotta have IT! (them) I'm tired of switching controllers all the time depending on what I want to run. If I can narrow it down a bit all the better. 

Slot cars aint cheap no more! The technology costs.


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## martybauer31 (Jan 27, 2004)

This hobby is all about sucking other hapless knuckleheads into spending the same kind of money I am.... it's really the only way I can justify it at all.  

Oh, and it might be about having fun and making some good friends as well.....

Welcome to the club Bill! :hat: 

And Scaf... we'll see you soon!


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## bubbahotep7 (Mar 13, 2007)

I just received my parma 90ohm controller and what a difference it makes. The trigger squeeze is so much smoother, no more "grinding" against the resistor like the stock tomy controllers. 

I opted for the econos, but I can see how one could get hooked on controllers if the even the econo is this much better. T-jet control is a world of difference...I can go from a crawl to top speed. Also got some parma 45ohm econos for the kids to race the g-plus cars.


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## tjd241 (Jan 25, 2004)

*My layout is small...*

and I am a pancake man 100% a fancy-schmancy unit just isn't needed. So 7 years ago me and my Tomy Infinity set started with the Tomy cheapos and right away knew they were wrong for the job. Still a newbie and layout growing, I went to Parma econo 60's I think. Better, but as my feel got more sensitive, I still thought it could get better still. Then I started seeing articles on 100 ohm swap-outs for the Parmas, and bought them. Liked them at first, but always had a "grainy" feel. All in all though each time I upgraded things worked a little better. Finally, last year I got a pair of BRP 90's that are fused. What a difference in smoothness and the response is pretty much spot on. I can see how a good quality controller can make a big difference especially with a larger layout and if you run all sorts of cars. Bottom line, grudgingly I came to realize it really does matter ... just wish I had known a few $$$ ago.


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## Scafremon (Dec 11, 2006)

Scaf's back.......and why is this thread on page 3?  

I've been away from the hobby for a coupla months now, but just got back into the mix. 

I finally scratched the "Band Saw" off the list of "Things to Buy" last weekend and started working on the track again. First task was to figure out a way to get my ping-pong netting secured around the track. Rounding the corners of my table had created a problem for me in keeping the netting taught, so I cut some boomerang-shaped pieces of MDF, and supported them over the table using a handful of Ticonderoga #2's (pencils are just so much more cost effective then dowels). 



I wrapped the pencils with some foam, but left the erasers exposed because I tend to make alot of mistakes.



I then started cutting 1.25" wide borders from scrap MDF I have had pilling up in my garage. I went ahead and cut outside and inside borders for all the curved track, although I'm going to concentrate first on getting the outside borders installed. I think I spent upwards of 4 hours straight standing at my new Ryobi band saw cutting these borders. It was a relief to finally finish, but then I realized how much more work was still required. I still need to cut entry/exit pieces for the corners, and modify some borders where the pieces touch each other.

And then there is the sanding.....it reminds me of when I decide to cut back a tree - you get this feeling of accomplishment, until you look at all the fallen branches that now need to be cut smaller and bound up. Arrgh.

But hey! Such is life.

Anyway, my plan is to get all the outside borders sanded, trimmed, painted and attached by a week from Saturday. I just ordered some AW R3 xtractions from Jeff at Motorcitytoyz, and I hope to be sliding them around the corners come Sunday 7/22 when some friends and family are coming over for a bbq.



I decided to paint the borders Hunter Green, because, well, I happened to have a couple cans of that in the garage from a previous project. Not my preferred color choice, but I need to start using up some of this paint I have been accumulating for the past couple decades.



Jeff


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## martybauer31 (Jan 27, 2004)

NICE looking track Scaf! Welcome back!


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## Scafremon (Dec 11, 2006)

Thanks Marty.

I spent a couple more hours this evening on it, and finished cutting/sanding/painting the outside corner pieces. The exception is the S curve area, where inside and outside lanes get swapped quick. Having so many of my little MDF pieces together in a row is going to require a bit more finish detail to get them to fit semi-snug with each other and the track.

Tomorrow I will work on the straight pieces that go between corners that are 9" or less apart. I cut a few 48" strips of MDF at 1.25" wide, and I will just cut them to the various 3", 6" and 9" pieces I need to fill gaps between corners.



I'm thinking about painting a white stripe on the outer edge as you can see on one piece in the above pic. The dark green borders seem to blend into the track or something, and you don't get the visual impact that the track is inlaid like I have seen with cork borders. 

I'm also hoping the white stripe will detract the eye from seeing not-so-perfectly-cut edges on the borders, even if the white stripe isn't a perfect stripe.

The other thing I want to accomplish tomorrow are the entry/exit pieces to the borders. I'm thinking a 3" piece should provide enough room for a slip-slider to get it's rear wheels back on the plastic. Do you guys think that is enough?


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## mking (Apr 25, 2000)

*hey jeff!!!*

welcome back. i was afraid you burned out!

mike


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## Scafremon (Dec 11, 2006)

*Hey Mike!*

Nah, I didn't burn out. Just had other things to tend to. 

Today, I'm back full-throttle on the slot car track - lawns be damned.

I finished my first goal on the borders - all outside turns now have borders, as do the 'S' curves. 



I attached the borders using loops of painter's masking tape. Since I haven't run a car on the track for a couple months, I didn't want to go to permanent with them, in case I need to adjust track connections. 

Side Bar - I think it was SlottV (maybe among others) that had mentioned how the track will shrink and expand based on temperature. I got a first hand lesson in that a couple weekends ago. I had moved my track table onto the driveway, in full sun, so I could sweep out the garage. Right before my eyes the track started buckling all over the place - wherever a screw wasn't holding it down. When I moved it back into the shade of the garage, the whoop-de-do's all settled back down.

Back to the borders: I decided to make the border pieces to match track sizes, so that if I ever change the layout, my border pieces will still be useful. This created many seems in the borders - more so then if I had combined borders to match my layout. At first, I thought this might be a visual problem, but now I kind of like the jig-saw-puzzle effect of the border pieces. 

Anyway, I think I am done with borders, at least until after next weekend. Now I just want to make the track race-able for the party next Sunday. Not really sure if my family is going to be all that interested in the track, but based on the few times neighbors have stopped by and put a controller in their hands, it should offer a good time for those that give it a whirl.


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

Jeff, Your ears must have been burning. Was wondering about you the other day. Nice to have you back!


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## Scafremon (Dec 11, 2006)

Thanks Bill - it's good to be back playing with tools and toys again. 

I went ahead and painted the white stripe along the edge of the borders tonight, and I think it really adds to the look.



The dark green borders previously looked almost like a shadow, and not like they were at the same surface level as the track. The white stripe brings the borders up to the plane of the track.

The pics don't really show the difference.


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## Tycoarm (Jan 7, 2006)

Man Scaf, your track has really come along. Your pic's have got me itching to get back into the basement.


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## Scafremon (Dec 11, 2006)

Thanks Tyco.

I feel really good about the track now, having installed the outside borders. They are something I had envisioned even before I started purchasing the track pieces, and to finally get the borders installed is a big relief. 

I feel I can now concentrate on tuning cars, and also continue to do tweaks here and there to the track, but with less pressure.



The painter's tape I used to attach the borders is working out great so far. My initial plan was to screw them down, but I don't see a need for all that effort now. I also like that I can simply pull up a section of border if I need to modify it. For example, when I was painting the red/white squares, I got in a daze, and painted half of them on the outer half instead of the inner half. It was nice to just pull them up, spray them with a coat of green, and then re-attach and re-paint them correctly.


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## Scafremon (Dec 11, 2006)

*Power Baby!!*

I received my new power supply yesterday.  

I had ordered the Pyramid PS32LAB from an ebay seller, but received the PS30LAB. The main difference is that the one I received has digital meters instead of analog. The only other difference I noted was in size (slightly different dimensions), and in front panel arrangement of knobs and buttons.

The specs seem to be the same (0-30V, 5A, regulated), and since I really wanted digital meters instead of analog, you can color me happy.

Of course, the seller gets negative feedback, for not providing the product I had purchased.....(kidding).



I'll have to think some about how to wire it in, and where to place it. Since my track tables are on wheels, I am constantly rotating the track around the garage - against a wall to get my car in - away from the wall to get to yard tools. Not sure if I want to have this power supply moving around with the tables (and run an extension cord to it when in use), or fix mount it on a shelf, and connect the leads from it to the table when in use.


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## martybauer31 (Jan 27, 2004)

Nice! Given the choice, I like the digital you have better... I just have a shelf underneath my table Scaf, it holds my power supply, the computer and the printer. Where the track goes they go....


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## rudykizuty (Aug 16, 2007)

I'm just getting started in the hobby and I basically understand next to nothing where electricity is concerned. So, I must ask.......

With a unit like this generating 5 Amps, does that mean that downstream approx. 1.25 amps would be distributed to each lane? Or does each lane get supplied 5 amps?

I'm hoping someday to understand this stuff before I get to wiring a table.


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## TGtycopro (Jun 1, 2006)

Scaf, Perhaps a Simple Cable to Plug on a rolling cart (one that would roll underneath the layout)with the unit being on a mid to lower shelf for normal operation freeing up a nice Flat top for holding cars, Drinks, tools whatever you need it for atthe moment. It would give you a Portable roll around work table to boot. Unplag the cable and it can go anywhere in the garage...........Take a Look at the Wooden furniture Dolly's available at Northern Tool and Build a framework to sit on top of it.(you cant even buy the casters as cheap as they sell these furniture dollys...)


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## f1nutz (Mar 26, 2007)

Hey Scaf .Nice track!


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## Scafremon (Dec 11, 2006)

I like the cart idea.

The 5 amps is the max output, so it gets divied up based on the load each car requires at the moment. I believe all cars except for super modified type cars have a draw well below 1 amp, except maybe for initial start from locked rotor. Being a regulated power supply, the voltage will stay constant regardless of load draws. That is the main benny as opposed to the wall warts, which will fluctuate voltage output continuously.

thanks f1..but why did you remove the photo from your post? I saw it briefly on my pda this morning, but it was gone when I came back to it. Would like to see how Brian did his split track.

Jeff


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## Ligier Runner (Nov 29, 2004)

Looking amazing Scaf! Makes me feel like I just cobbled my track together.


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## bobhch (Apr 22, 2007)

Man Scaf,

I was going to finish my track lane stripes but, came across this thread. WOW!

Looked ove the whole thing.....WOW!

Wish my Wife was more like your lawn. She wants to eat now....ooooh man I got white to finish. I can't ignor her soooooooo....later tonight the stripes get done.

Way cool thread, Bob...zilla


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## Scafremon (Dec 11, 2006)

I added the relay to turn power on/off during a race. I went with the relay suggested by Greg Braun at his website, HO Slot Car Racing .

It's kind of an expensive feature to add to a track (at about $39), just to power off the track when a race ends, but I think there are some races where you really want to know where a car physically ended up at the end time of the race - maybe to carry over that position to another race after a lane rotation.


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

Looking good Scaf! :thumbsup: 

One thing I'd do, if you haven't, is throw in a toggle switch to bypass the relay if needed.


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## Scafremon (Dec 11, 2006)

Thanks Gene...and thanks for the toggle switch tip. Your post got me back out the garage to figure out "why does Gene suggest a toggle switch?"

History: 
Last night, just after wiring in the relay, and not really knowing how the relay was going to work, I went through some 'what if scenarios'. 

What if my computer isn't on?
What if the Laptimer 2000 software isn't running?
What if the software is running but I am not in race mode?

All scenarios resulted in there still being power to the track, so I was happy. I then tested a race, and the power did not shut off when the race ended. 

I got out my testmeter, and determined that there was voltage across the control circuit of the relay at all times. This told me that something needed to cut off that voltage in order to open the circuit in the relay. After more time then it should have taken, I found the checkbox in the software that initiated the relay. Once that was checked, the relay operated as it was supposed to.

What I failed to do at that point was go back through my 'what if' scenarios.

Well, after your post, I did just that, and as expected, when the computer is off, there is no voltage being sent to the relay to close the circuit. 

So, a toggle switch is now on the "To Buy" list. I'm thinking a double pole double throw (DPDT) type unit (such as I used on my brake and/or my lane direction change switches at my controller stations) should do the trick. Is that right?

I think I will put the toggle switch in a small project-box under the lip of the table, and which might also serve as a good place to put some banana plug jacks for my incoming power, since I am currently having to use a screwdriver and connect those ends to a terminal block.


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

Scaf a SPDT will do, or you can use one side of the relay if it has a NO/NC pair, though that won't cure a fried relay. Personally I like to be able to take the relay out of the supply chain if needed.

There's a pic of my little black box here .


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## Scafremon (Dec 11, 2006)

I threw together a box for my switch.

I say 'threw together' but it actually took me hours. "Threw together' sounded appropriate based on the cosmetic results of the box, and the jumble of wiring I now have to clean up. But... it works!



Thanks again Gene, and thanks for the links. I did not do all those resistor thingys that were shown on the schematic link at your forum. I'm hoping that type of stuff is for the electrical purists, and that without them, I am not skipping something critical.


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## rudykizuty (Aug 16, 2007)

Been re-reading through the thread recently. What ever happened with the issue of gaps between the track sections? Did you use modeling clay filler as you had mentioned before? If not, what was the approach you went with? Thanks.


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## Scafremon (Dec 11, 2006)

Shortly after testing the clay in a few places, I decided to change my track layout, and have not done anything to fill the gaps yet on the new layout.

Clay is fairly easy to install: make a clay worm, press it in, the shave the top with a razor blade.

When I build my next track, I am going to try and do a much better job of evening out the gaps between tracks. I think on my last layout, I tried to eliminate the gap in certain areas, which increased the gap in others, some close to 1/2".

If I could build a layout with a uniform 1/8" gap between tracks, I would be very pleased, and I think the clay would be a good gap-filler. 

On a related note, if I were to do it again, I would use something other then screws to hold down my track, most likely small nails. The screws can slightly move the track as they flush into the countersink holes, changing gaps in other areas of the layout. And once you have the screw hole in the table, you can't get the screw to find a new home to make small adjustments. You can leave some screws out, but if you have countersunk every piece of plastic track you own (like I...did...) then you have larger track holes to fill in with your clay. 

Yep, lil nails, where needed, I think are the way to go.


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## wm_brant (Nov 21, 2004)

Scaf --

While I think they're a little expensive, have you checked out the new AFX Track clips? Both AFXRacing (what toyracecars.com is changing to) and Scale Auto (on their 'Latest Releases' page) have them. Scale Auto's price is a little better.

They are supposed to hold the track together and eliminate gaps. Might be worth a try.

-- Bill


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## rudykizuty (Aug 16, 2007)

The clips appear to address issues with track coming apart at the joints. The gaps we are talking about are the ones between the track sections when they are laid side by side to form a 4 lane circuit. 

I like the idea of clips maintaining the joints better. But at $1.50 per joint based on Scale Auto's price (RaceMasters suggests 2 per joint) plus S&H, they're awful pricey.


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## Scafremon (Dec 11, 2006)

I did read that someone was using those clips between tracks in a 4 lane layout, but I believe they had to modify them slightly. 

The gap issue is in the design of the track pieces. When you nest a curve into a larger curve (such as 4-12" curves inside of 4-15" curves), there is an inherent 1/8" gap between them. Picture a small oval using these curves, and some 15" straights in between them. If you slide the inner tracks towards one end to eliminate the gap, you will have a 1/4" gap at the other end of the track. Now, if one of your 15" straights on your outer lanes has the slight bow to the outside, you can end up with a 3/8" gap in one area.


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## Dslot (Sep 2, 2007)

What's the story on that 1/8" gap between the lanes of Tomy track, anyway? Is there some design justification for it? Or just a brain-burp on the part of the designer or draftsman at Tomy? I have trouble envisioning a company doing such a nice design job on the end-to-end joining system, and then just sort of failing to notice that the tracks don't really fit together side to side without a gap.

I've got my own idea (untested, so far) for dealing with it. Hobby Lobby sells "Fun Foam" or "Crazy Foam" sheets, in 1/16" and 1/8" thicknesses, all colors of the rainbow. I've bought a black 1/8" sheet, 11"x17" (under a dollar). Next time I set up a course, I'm going to cut strips and insert between the tracks. I'll see if it works and if it's better to cut it to size or cut oversize and shave down to track level. -- D


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## Dslot (Sep 2, 2007)

Well, here's a lesson - if you're old enough to have seen Aurora's vibrators new, don't do anything from memory. 
The Hobby Lobby product I mentioned is called "Funky Foam;" its sheet thicknesses are 3mm (.118") not 1/8 (.125"), and 2mm (.079"), not 1/16" (.063), the sheet size is 12x18" (not 11x17") -- as well as 9"x12". Hey, everything _else_ is accurate.  
-- D


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## Scafremon (Dec 11, 2006)

testing only


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## Scafremon (Dec 11, 2006)

One year ago today I started this thread. 

One year, and I am still into it. My friends and family are pretty sure this is a record for me - sticking with a hobby this long. I can't argue with them.

I owe a huge thanks to this forum (read: all of you) for keeping the fire burning with this hobby. 

Thank You.

As for this track - Scaf's Track - it is no longer. I'm taking what I have learned during this track build (along with most of the plastic track), and starting the next track. I hope the next track will be better - I know it will be different.

Jeff


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## roffutt (Jun 30, 2006)

Scaf,

I had the pleasure of reading through this tread from start to finish the other day.. and found it very entertaining. Amazing to see how much you have learned in just over a year on this forum and how much you given back to it. The fire will always be burning, as long as there are members like yourself around to keep stoking the flame. Thanks!

-roffutt


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

I took the time over breakfast to read this thread completely and I think it's great to see how many different ways there are to get things done. I have to agree that the people here are a wealth of information. From AFX's suggestion to use a BBQ brush to shape my strofoam to all the interesting drivers stations people are doing, it's keeping the fire alive in this hobby for me.

...almost 10,000 views, that says something for the subject matter to be sure.


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

*You might be a slot-tard .....*



Scafremon said:


> One year ago today I started this thread.
> 
> One year, and I am still into it. My friends and family are pretty sure this is a record for me - sticking with a hobby this long. I can't argue with them.
> 
> ...


...if you've lost track of a year.  Your in good company Scaf. 

Due to space limitations I can only dream and drool over all the great stuff in this thread. The HT gang never ceases to amaze me with their creative ingenuity and vast core knowledge. It's a great show!


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## bobhch (Apr 22, 2007)

Hey Scaf,

Just like that bunny..... you keep on going Mr. Track builder man....nice job!

Bob...zilla


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## jstudrawa (Mar 20, 2008)

There DEFINITELY needs to be an archive or forum for construction how-to's!!!!!

It's one thing for me to talk about 50ft of boxed track on carpet and Cordoba's track and this one (among others).

This needs it's own special place, to give others inspiration and know how, IMO.


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

Sort of a Modern Wonders of the HO world sort of thing...this one, Hilltop, dare I say Laguna Seca....


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## ppinko (Mar 13, 2008)

Read your thread this evening. Enjoyed every bit, thanks.


I agree for nonmag cars the 90+ohm controllers are key, but I also like 
tweaking the voltage.

Good luck with future projects!!

Peter


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## Scafremon (Dec 11, 2006)

Thank you Peter.


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## midlifer (Jan 19, 2008)

*Amazing*

I am always stunned and pleased to see it is usually the small things in life that make us happy. Little cars some track the chance to create and enjoy with others. Thank you scarf and all those who participate for making it happen for a lot of newbies such as myself. Sorry for the contemplation.

Peace
JC


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## rbrunne1 (Sep 22, 2007)

Bump - more great tips buried in the archives :freak:


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

*Scaffy*

So what?

Anyone know what happend to Jeff-remon?


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## Scafremon (Dec 11, 2006)

(jumps in before rumors start)

Hi! 

Wow - four years have passed. Seems like just yesterday I was spending near every waking moment at this site. (Ok...maybe not like yesterday, but ya know...wow)

So where did I leave off...ok, April 4, 2008. On the 5th, I... (this will be boring).

Except for giving away those 4x8 tables, (and loaning my power supply to someone who lost it) I still have all the other pieces (track, cars, controllers) and hopefully I have retained some portion of the knowledge I gleaned from you all and this forum. One day, a track will be born again.

Hope everyone is well!

Now, since I am here, time to be a troll and see what's been happening.

Jeff


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## plymouth71 (Dec 14, 2009)

Lmao ! !


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## rbrunne1 (Sep 22, 2007)

Bump...a must read for any new track builders


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## Dslot (Sep 2, 2007)

*Old Home Week*

Whoa! I'm off the board for a few months, and check in to find one of my favorite long-lost members came back shortly after I left. Hi, *Scaf*. :wave: ... Was it my breath? 

Now I've got to check for *Resinmonger*. If the Hutt has returned, it'll be just like old times.

-- D


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## gonegonzo (Jan 18, 2006)

Welcome back D Slot . You happen to be one of my favorite forumeers ! I'm into those mini circuit tracks you pop out .

Gonzo


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## Dslot (Sep 2, 2007)

gonegonzo said:


> Welcome back D Slot . You happen to be one of my favorite forumeers ! I'm into those mini circuit tracks you pop out .
> 
> Gonzo


Thanks, Gonzo. It's good to be back. Actually got to work on an HO car for the first time in six months yesterday.

-- D


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## DonSchenck (Nov 14, 2012)

Just read this thread. WOW ... GREAT information. Thanks, guys.


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