# Flying Sub Reissue



## kdaracal

Culttvman reported some changes to the new VTTBOTS sub reissue. The article mentions "improved" hull design. 

Anyone know specifics about the new hull design?


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## RMC

no idea,, but I thought it came with a base ?


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## BWolfe

kdaracal said:


> Culttvman reported some changes to the new VTTBOTS sub reissue. The article mentions "improved" hull design.
> 
> Anyone know specifics about the new hull design?


The main change is a redesign that places the seam for the top and bottom halves of the hull on the underside instead of along the edge. There is also an addition of resin crew figures.

This is the exact text from the Moebius facebook page:
About a month out (11/20 or so), revised reissue of the Flying Sub in 1/32 scale. New issue includes resin figures, and a redesigned hull seam. No seam at the wing tips, it's now underneath for a cleaner fit and easier seaming.

Also a picture of the box:


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## WOI

I had heard about the reissue of the Flying Sub just now,also about the
redesign quality of both halves of the hull for it.I thought they got it right
the first time when it first came out.Will there be any preview pics of it
to give us a good idea of what the improved quality for this reissue has?


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## NTRPRZ

I already have the (unbuilt) original issue. While these changes are nice (and I'd like the resin figures) it's not enough to get me to buy another kit.


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## kdaracal

I did mine in a white/red hypothetical City Beneath the Sea version. I'm ready to do a traditional yellow ...


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## kdaracal

A pic----the Pacifica Aquafoil


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## fluke

Oh Joy! now mongo is very happy that he did not get one back then
AND! what better companion for the upcoming Protious! wow ...with 
the 1999 1/48 Eagle is 2016 going to be groovy year for kits or what!?


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## irishtrek

I don't suppose they'll sell the figures separate some day???


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## John P

Yeah, great, so I bought two before. It's nice that new customers can get a better version, but I ain't buying it just for a "better" seam.


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## fluke

You would just convert it to a Starfleet Federation Vessel anyways :tongue:


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## djnick66

irishtrek said:


> I don't suppose they'll sell the figures separate some day???


FIgures have been available separately anyway from Crows Nest


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## fluke

figues.....hmm.....I moved it to a new post.


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## Paulbo

Hmmm. Might be time to get a production copy of the kit - my test shot was incomplete (only 1 seat, some other duplicated parts only had 1 copy) and had unfinished details (the floor didn't have the pattern in the hexagons).


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## Seaview

Personally, I liked building the first edition of this kit so much that I built 2 of them, and still have a third MIB. I think I'll sell one of my builds (the one w/o the Crows Nest figures) and replace it with one of these re-issues. 
Incidentally, that side seam is the only complaint I've ever had about that kit. I find that it keeps separating and I'm constantly having to squeeze it back into shape like a big yellow sandwich every couple of weeks.


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## irishtrek

djnick66 said:


> FIgures have been available separately anyway from Crows Nest


Thanks for the info although I've never heard of Crows Nest.


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## nautilusnut

> I don't suppose they'll sell the figures separate some day???


The Moebius FB page says they will offer the figures separately later and that they will resemble somewhat the actors. The CROWS NEST figures are excellent, but do not resemble the stars of the show at all. The Larson figures, (formerly Lunar models) though not as detailed DO bear resemblance to Richard Basehart and Lt. Sharkey.


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## John P

This kind of thing just makes me angry. I bought it already, I built it already, I bought Crows Nest aftermarket figures for it already. It was expensive, and it's finished. NOW they make improvements that I would have appreciated the first time around? How about getting it right the first time? I don't have the funds or desire to buy and build another. I feel like I got gypped - screw you, first time buyers, the new kids get a better model than you! Nyeh nyeh!



The next time a Moebius model comes out, maybe we shouldn't buy it! Because maybe a few years later they'll reissue it with improvements. I don't want to have to buy it twice, so let's skip buying the first release and wait for the better one!


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## Just Plain Al

What John said :tongue:


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## Buc

Silly rabbit.... you don't BUILD IT!!! what are you...nuts?!

1. buy kit
2. stick in closet
3. hear of new release
4. rummage in closet til you find old kit
5. ebay it
6. buy new ... improved. kit.
7. happy dance
8. stick in closet

(so endith the lesson)


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## Trek Ace

I certainly hope that the new, improved _Seaview _re-release has the correct bottom contour around the flying sub bay (cylindrical instead of hemispherical). That was a major pain to carve out and resculpt to make it right. Not to mention having to shorten the sail, lengthen the hull, etc. 

If the new release has those improvements, I may buy it. If not, I won't bother. I won't have enough years left to go want to go through that again.


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## enterprise_fanatic

Will they re-release the accessory set "wheels" as well?
If they do I "might get one" and do it as the Aquafoil, wheels and all.


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## fluke

Ha! I love it! that's about 60% if not more of the modelers I know
hehehehehe! 




Buc said:


> Silly rabbit.... you don't BUILD IT!!! what are you...nuts?!
> 
> 1. buy kit
> 2. stick in closet
> 3. hear of new release
> 4. rummage in closet til you find old kit
> 5. ebay it
> 6. buy new ... improved. kit.
> 7. happy dance
> 8. stick in closet
> 
> (so endith the lesson)


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## TAY666

John P said:


> This kind of thing just makes me angry. I bought it already, I built it already, I bought Crows Nest aftermarket figures for it already. It was expensive, and it's finished. NOW they make improvements that I would have appreciated the first time around? How about getting it right the first time? I don't have the funds or desire to buy and build another. I feel like I got gypped - screw you, first time buyers, the new kids get a better model than you! Nyeh nyeh!
> 
> 
> 
> The next time a Moebius model comes out, maybe we shouldn't buy it! Because maybe a few years later they'll reissue it with improvements. I don't want to have to buy it twice, so let's skip buying the first release and wait for the better one!


Ok, first let me say, I have no horse in this race. This kit held no interest for me, so I don't own it, and won't own it.
I do understand your frustration. I also 'get' where you are coming from.

But, I've also heard for years from the vehicle crowd around here, how they hate how model companies don't listen to complaints and fix problems with their kits. There are always complaints and gripes about why can't they fix this, or why won't they tweak that.
Now, a company has actually listened to the feedback, and done something about issues with one of their kits. And people are complaining about it.


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## Seaview

enterprise_fanatic said:


> Will they re-release the accessory set "wheels" as well?
> If they do I "might get one" and do it as the Aquafoil, wheels and all.










The wheels set is still commercially available from FabGear USA. Here's a link:


http://www.fabgearusa.com/flying-sub-landing-gear-and-claw-set/


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## WOI

Buc said:


> Silly rabbit.... you don't BUILD IT!!! what are you...nuts?!
> 
> 1. buy kit
> 2. stick in closet
> 3. hear of new release
> 4. rummage in closet til you find old kit
> 5. ebay it
> 6. buy new ... improved. kit.
> 7. happy dance
> 8. stick in closet
> 
> (so endith the lesson)


Got a much better idea,why don't you just make the original kit into a
copy of Red Fish 1 from City Beneath the Sea,and build the reissue of it
into the official version of the Flying Sub.This way nothing gets wasted!


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## Paulbo

TAY666 said:


> Ok, first let me say, I have no horse in this race. This kit held no interest for me, so I don't own it, and won't own it.
> I do understand your frustration. I also 'get' where you are coming from.
> 
> But, I've also heard for years from the vehicle crowd around here, how they hate how model companies don't listen to complaints and fix problems with their kits. There are always complaints and gripes about why can't they fix this, or why won't they tweak that.
> Now, a company has actually listened to the feedback, and done something about issues with one of their kits. And people are complaining about it.


I think you must have missed the "  " in John's post.


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## John P

Oh, that was a sincere tongue-sticking-outing at Moebius.
Improved $80 kits are great for people who haven't already bought two. The first time around, it's "YAY!" The second time around it's "What the hell?"

I still have a _case _of the PL 1/1000 Klingon battlecruiser with the crooked necks.


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## steve zodiak

I do not own any perviously issued version of this new Flying Sub, and am excited by the opportunity to get one. Can anyone recommend a good lighting kit for interior illumination?


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## fluke

I never liked the look of the wheels at all. I think that short landing skids 
in a tripod formation make more sense. During the tv series ....did they ever show those wheels or setting down on land at all?


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## Richard Baker

You did see them briefly when the Flying Sub was on the bottom of the ocean using it's claws to pick up a cable. 
The rest of the time you saw it land on solid surfaces from the cockpit point of view.

Personally I think they looked stupid but they do follow some specific engineering with those swirls and holes. I forget where/when the comparison photos were posted, but for underwater wheels that was considered a proper design.

Considering it's use I think some skid/roller arrangement like the TOS Vipers used would have worked great.


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## John P

We saw Nelson land it on a carrier once. It was stock footage from an actual plane cockpit view, seen over his shoulder out the FS-1's windshield.


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## spock62

Now if Moebius would only fix and reissue the Space Clipper, Viper Mk VII, Viper Mk I, Intersteller Ranger.....


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## fluke

yah...like double the size of the space clipper and the ranger :tongue:


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## Seaview

fluke said:


> I never liked the look of the wheels at all. I think that short landing skids
> in a tripod formation make more sense. During the tv series ....did they ever show those wheels or setting down on land at all?




I like the idea of 3 landing skids under the ol' Spindrift, but as for flying Sub, I more envision tripod landing gear in the same fashion as the Proteus; the sub could make ground landings using a VTOL method, and if on the ocean floor, they could keep the craft up high enough to use the floor hatch as a "Kelson hatch".


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## fluke

Good point....I agree.


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## John P

So where are the VTOL fans, then?


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## Richard Baker

John P said:


> So where are the VTOL fans, then?


Perhaps those vents in the circular collar surrounding the top and bottom hatches. Could be dual use- for hard docking and the outlets seem big enough to act as a VTOL...


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## Nektu

Maybe this thread is a good example of why Frank doesn't come on these boards any longer. He's running a business, not a personal request center for modelers. I, for one, think he's very intelligent for rereleasing this kit with improvements. He's not neglecting any prior customers, and Moebius customer service is excellent. Maybe a few deep breaths are in order. 
K


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## fluke

Dude.....relax.


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## Paulbo

Richard Baker said:


> Personally I think they looked stupid but they do follow some specific engineering with those swirls and holes. I forget where/when the comparison photos were posted, but for underwater wheels that was considered a proper design...


Actually, IMHO it's a pretty stupid design. It was taken from the Lunar Rover's wheels which used the helical springs in place of pneumatic, rubber tires. The Flying Sub uses helical springs attached to a solid rim (obviating the need for the helical spring since they can't move) and then tops the whole thing off with rubber tires.

In other words, they did it because it looked good and to hell with any attempt at purposefulness. :wave:


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## John P

I was considering replacing those thing with normal-looking tires when I got around to that build.


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## Richard Baker

When you see it on it's 'canon' landing gear recreated on the Sci-Fi Airshow it is six ways stupid looking.


IIRC the article I was looking at about the undersea wheels which inspired the Flying Sub gear did not use those whirls as springs (like the lunar version) but the swirls were supposed to help it move in the soft mud below. A couple of real craft used the same design (without the rubber tires)...


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## fluke

Six ways stupid ....lol...I needed that....Yes they are ugly as hell and in no way do
they FS-1's very beautiful and sleek lines. 

Ok.....its one thing to go about things like, practical, usefulness und functional but
folks....its Sci-Fi......just do what looks cool.


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## Krel

John P said:


> So where are the VTOL fans, then?


Actually they may have considered, like giving the FS two reactor walls, making the FS VTOL. In some episodes, there is a drawing, that can be seen on the wall at NIMR of the FS hovering above the sea. There is a small version on the Uncle Oldies site: http://www.uncleodiescollectibles.com/html_lib/voyage-props/00009.html

David.


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## nautilusnut

> In other words, they did it because it looked good and to hell with any attempt at purposefulness


Logical thinking and story lines were never Irvin Allen's strong point. Watching VTTBOTS these days all I can think of is how the SEAVIEW is full of non-watertight doors down long hallways, air vents grown men can crawl around in how I'd not want to be on the end of that TINY cable when being lowered in the dive bell! We were amazingly unsophisticated back then!


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## Richard Baker

I do not think it was about being unsophisticated- back then most of the technologies were new and few people had much exposure to them. Aside from some classic movies people did not know much about submarines- and the Seaview was supposed to be a super-scientific one set in our near future.
The air vent system was stupid but the only way to move the plot forward- if you could believe aliens controlled dolls and monsters made of seaweed then it works.
The Flying sub had to have some impressive transparent aluminum windows considering how it normally entered the water- I always thought skimming the surface, landing on it's belly and then submerging more 'practical' though not as visually stunning.


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## John P

And of course, there isn't a single control surface visible on the Flying Sub. When I do my "under service" version with the gear down, I'm going to scribe on some split flaps and ailerons and rudders.


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## nautilusnut

> I do not think it was about being unsophisticated- back then most of the technologies were new and few people had much exposure to them. Aside from some classic movies people did not know much about submarines- and the Seaview was supposed to be a super-scientific one set in our near future.


Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed these shows then and still do, its just now incredibly awkward-looking to see some of the things they did. Certainly there were many sailors and vets around who had an inkling of how a real ship looked. Even the top-of the line subs at that time have water-proof doors and show that space is limited on a ship. I don't think they need to strive for complete accuracy, they are telling a story and that's the main thing, to move it along between cigarette and detergent ads.

I've heard that Irwin Allen blew his top if someone mentioned "logical" to him regarding story lines, He liked to see things exploding every few minutes!

Even as a kid I thought that the FS-1 slammed into the water too hard to survive. Now I KNOW better. I looks pretty neat though


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## kdaracal

I'm a huge fan of Moebius and their inovative subjects and scales. Quality pretty good, too. Although that seam was already pretty clean on the old version, I'm glad they're responsive to customer comments. Retooling two major hull pieces is a heck of a marketing risk. 

I will buy another release just to say "thanks"


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## JeffBond

We're talking about a show that had pirate and Nazi submarine captain ghosts, werewolves, leprechauns, animated wax figures replacing the crew...this was TV in the 1960s when the popular shows were Gilligan's Island, Bewitched, I Dream of Jeannie, shows where basically anything could happen as long as it sold color TVs. It wasn't just Irwin Allen who didn't care about realism--the TV viewing audience didn't care.


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## freezerman1961

I was a big fan of the show in re-runs when I was growing up. Had no idea what the science gaffes were, just thought it was a cool show. I have the 8-window Seaview and the original issue of the Flying Sub, and the 4-window Seaview on pre-order from HobbyLinc, so I will have the trifecta when it's released. I emailed Moebius asking if they would be releasing the crew figures separately for those of us with the original kit, but they have no plans to do so right now.


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## Alien

Hi Guys,

This maybe the wrong forum for this but here goes anyway.
I am about to start building (At long last.) my original issue of the Flying Sub.
No figures for me!

I will be lighting it, as I do with most of my projects, and I want to make a more 'realistic' reactor wall. Lighting kits like VoodooFX and Just an Illusion seem to just use a single color sequencing LED to provide the effect. 
(Please correct me if I am wrong.)
While this is OK I want to have more random multiple colors flickering through the 'port holes' that look more like the mechanical lighting effect used on the studio set.

I have started designing a small electronic circuit with multiple RGB LEDs to achieve this. It will also flicker red LEDs to light the engines.

Before I just go ahead and build a single unit on prototype board for my own use, I thought that others may be interested. If so, I will design a proper printed circuit board and offer it for sale.

It will be completely assembled.

Just add power.
LED brightness will be dimable.
Probably between US$30 and $40 including worldwide shipping.

(Of course I would put a video on YouTube so you can see what you are actually buying.)

Let me know if anyone is interested, either on this forum or PM me.

Alien


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## SimboWales

I would be very interested Alien !

Paul


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## enterprise_fanatic

I too am very interested in a litting kit for the FS1, but holding off in the purchase til I see the video. Will some assembly be required or will it be "plug-n-play" with minimal soldering?


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## Opus Penguin

Alien said:


> Let me know if anyone is interested, either on this forum or PM me.
> 
> Alien


Count me as interested.


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## Alien

enterprise_fanatic said:


> I too am very interested in a litting kit for the FS1, but holding off in the purchase til I see the video. Will some assembly be required or will it be "plug-n-play" with minimal soldering?


If I end up creating this, it will certainly be plug and play (Maybe plug and pray in my case.  ) I know a lot of people hate/fear/lack confidence soldering.

I envisage a main board containing the circuitry and color LEDs. You will have to mount this behind parts #51 and #26. Probably with some frosting behind the clear #51 part. The board will have two wires to connect (5 or 12 volt) power and then two more pairs of wires to the engine LEDs.
So no soldering, apart from connecting the power wires to your power source.
The board will have a small push switch that will allow you to set the brightness of the LEDs. The controller will remember this setting when it is powered off. Of course! (I can say this with confidence as I have written software to do this for another project and I will just reuse it.)

Alien


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## WOI

Any chance of seeing a preview of all the parts for the new reissue of
the Flying Sub any time soon.


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## Richard Baker

WOI said:


> Any chance of seeing a preview of all the parts for the new reissue of
> the Flying Sub any time soon.


IIRC it is the same kit that has been out for years- the only changes were in how the two main hull halves fit together (top over bottom nested instead of butt seam along edge) and the inclusion of two resin figures.


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## RMC

any pics ???????


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## zike

I have to say that I prefer seams on the outer edge of a surface rather than the nested style of seam. The fact is that the seam on the current issue is EXTREMELY clean and easy to deal with. Once the glue has thoroughly dried, even a beginner can easily polish the seam into oblivion in a few minutes. I don't know if I even used any filler on mine. I MIGHT have used a drop of superglue. I was looking at mine yesterday and, even after a few years, the seam is invisible.

I guarantee that the nested seam will reguire filler...a lot more than the current issue. And it will require more work to line up because you are basically trying to level relatively flat surfaces. I'm not sure how this particular change qualifies as an improvement.

I usually buy Moebius kits by the case. Honestly. I'm not a reseller; I just really like the subjects. But I only bought one of the Flying Sub kits. I think I was a bit cash-strapped at the time. If I'm lucky, maybe I can pick up a couple of the old kits cheap on eBay if people dump them for the "improved" version (though I sure would like to get the figures).


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## robn1

A preview is coming up here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t64wNo7GU_k


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## John P

Richard Baker said:


> IIRC it is the same kit that has been out for years- the only changes were in how the two main hull halves fit together (top over bottom nested instead of butt seam along edge) and the inclusion of two resin figures.


So instead of just sanding the edge glue-seam smooth, we'll now have to sand the edge mold-seam smooth _plus _fill and sand the gap between the parts underneath. Good plan. :freak:


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## idMonster

Alien said:


> Before I just go ahead and build a single unit on prototype board for my own use, I thought that others may be interested. If so, I will design a proper printed circuit board and offer it for sale.
> 
> It will be completely assembled.
> 
> Just add power.
> LED brightness will be dimable.
> Probably between US$30 and $40 including worldwide shipping.
> 
> (Of course I would put a video on YouTube so you can see what you are actually buying.)
> 
> Let me know if anyone is interested, either on this forum or PM me.
> 
> Alien


 I'd be interested in a unit or two at that price.

Gordon


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## WOI

All I asked if we could see some previews of the reissue of that kit.


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## enterprise_fanatic

I just got my the re-issure a few days ago but am only able to look at it because of my move to a new residence. I have nothing to compare it to because of my unfinished first release is backed away in a box somewhere in a storage unit. 

I am pleased with the kit and as soon as I'm able to build it will be as the white and red sister ship.

What I see is that a lot of the control panels have little or no detail on them. You will need to purchase some "photo etch" for details for those blank panels. The only clear panels are the front window, floor and the "fusion portholes". 

Now I'm not one to complain but for those who are thinking about building the white and red version, from the Stuart Whitman and Robert Wagner movie, a second "fusion wall" would have been nice.


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## RMC

can you show us some pics ???????????


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## Seaview

Alien said:


> I will be lighting it, as I do with most of my projects, and I want to make a more 'realistic' reactor wall. Lighting kits like VoodooFX and Just an Illusion seem to just use a single color sequencing LED to provide the effect.
> (Please correct me if I am wrong.)






I don't know about the JAI lighting kit, but the VooDooFX reactor wall lights are multi-colored (and look great). I am planning on getting a re-issue kit, and this kit does deserve lighting; is your "plug & play" lighting kit powered by AC/DC or is it battery operated?


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## Alien

Seaview said:


> I don't know about the JAI lighting kit, but the VooDooFX reactor wall lights are multi-colored (and look great). I am planning on getting a re-issue kit, and this kit does deserve lighting; is your "plug & play" lighting kit powered by AC/DC or is it battery operated?


Seaview,
The videos that I have seen online using the VoodooFx lighting kit does show the reactor 'port holes' illuminating with different colors, but all the holes are illuminated with the same color at once, rather than different colors in each hole.
Probably have not described that very well.
I want my circuit to have multiple LEDs all flashing different colors to try and capture the studio effect a bit more accurately.

The lighting unit would run off a wide DC voltage range (Between 6 and 20 volts) so you can run it off a plug in mains power pack or batteries at a voltage of your choice.

Alien

Alien


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## enterprise_fanatic

RMC said:


> can you show us some pics ???????????


My internet connection is spotty at best during my move but I will see what I can do.


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## Richard Baker

Alien said:


> Seaview,
> The videos that I have seen online using the VoodooFx lighting kit does show the reactor 'port holes' illuminating with different colors, but all the holes are illuminated with the same color at once, rather than different colors in each hole.
> Probably have not described that very well.
> I want my circuit to have multiple LEDs all flashing different colors to try and capture the studio effect a bit more accurately.
> 
> The lighting unit would run off a wide DC voltage range (Between 6 and 20 volts) so you can run it off a plug in mains power pack or batteries at a voltage of your choice.
> 
> Alien
> 
> Alien


I am just going to use some color changing LED Christmas lights on mine. I cast a duplicate fusion wall- I really like the symmetrical look of the Flying Sub (or Aqua-Foil) in 'The City Beneath the Sea')


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## Seaview

Still one of the sleekest SciFi vehicles ever to grace the small screen.


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## Alien

Richard Baker said:


> I am just going to use some color changing LED Christmas lights on mine. )


Richard, 
Yes, that is a very good idea. 
Try and buy good quality ones. I had a set, that was actually used for Christmas purposes, and now all but two LEDs on the string are unable to light up green. Grrrr!!
The only thing that I don't like about using a number of these types of LEDs is that when you initially turn the power on they all flash with the same colors.
You have to wait a bit, until their clocks work out of sync, and then they each flash differently.

You can buy quality RGB Flashing LEDs (Rather than attacking a Christmas light string) here:https://www.adafruit.com/products/679

Have a look at this page too:
https://www.adafruit.com/categories/90
A couple of their LED Backlight modules may be a good alternative to using more expensive EL panels (AKA Lightsheet)

Alien


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## enterprise_fanatic

R


RMC said:


> can you show us some pics ???????????


Here are four of the sides to the interior. You will notice that the the two sides that go on either side front window have individual panels but now details. The same is true with the panel that is next to the water tight door. The only exception is the panel under the "fusion portholes" and the control panel (picture not shown here).

You can't see the details but I also included the two figures come in the kit.

So when you order the new kit be sure to order the photo etch as well.


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## enterprise_fanatic

Here is the new seam detail and the control panel.


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## RMC

any pics of the base ????????????????


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## enterprise_fanatic

I don't have it with me here at work but if memory serves me correctly it is same pie shaped clear stand we got last time.


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## fxshop

*Flying Sub Reissue Lighitng Kit*

Hi guys, just wanted to clear up a few things regarding the new flying sub reissue lighting kit from VoodooFX. Builders have been asking me if the fusion core wall is color shifting, "YES" it is a slow color changing fade. We will not be making any major changes to the lighting kit but will be adding extra leds in the kit and using 2-color changing leds for the fusion core reactor wall, this should produce a great cross fading feature for the kit. if you have any questions call me at 1-650-568-3400... Randy


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## Opus Penguin

Will you be providing a video of the new kit?


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## enterprise_fanatic

How does one photograph clear plastic.


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## Opus Penguin

fxshop said:


> Hi guys, just wanted to clear up a few things regarding the new flying sub reissue lighting kit from VoodooFX. Builders have been asking me if the fusion core wall is color shifting, "YES" it is a slow color changing fade. We will not be making any major changes to the lighting kit but will be adding extra leds in the kit and using 2-color changing leds for the fusion core reactor wall, this should produce a great cross fading feature for the kit. if you have any questions call me at 1-650-568-3400... Randy


Any word on when the new kit will be available?


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## BWolfe

Opus Penguin said:


> Any word on when the new kit will be available?


Call me slow, but your screen name finally just clicked in my head:
https://scontent-dfw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/t31.0-8/s2048x2048/12365975_1100755739955178_8720846486069254878_o.jpg


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## Opus Penguin

BWolfe said:


> Call me slow, but your screen name finally just clicked in my head:
> https://scontent-dfw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/t31.0-8/s2048x2048/12365975_1100755739955178_8720846486069254878_o.jpg


Yep. He is my favorite cartoon character.


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## RMC

enterprise_fanatic said:


> How does one photograph clear plastic.


I thought the new re-issue had a base that was clear but shaped like it was coming out of the water


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## Owen E Oulton

enterprise_fanatic said:


> How does one photograph clear plastic.


One does whatever it was you did to get that picture. Turned out good.


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## Seaview

RMC said:


> I thought the new re-issue had a base that was clear but shaped like it was coming out of the water









The new reissue has the same clear plastic "Aurora"-type stand as the first run. The "ocean surface" base you are referring to is for the pre-built metal Flying Sub due out later this year, which will probably cost almost as much as the metal Jupiter II, and targeted towards the same collectors.


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## Seaview

An important heads-up for those of you planning on getting this kit; it is essential that you also order the brass photo-etch aftermarket sheet for this edition; all of the raised details of the computer banks of the bulkhead walls have been eliminated and are smooth surfaces. Decals are also helpful, but the brass etch sheet is a must-have.


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## Opus Penguin

Seaview said:


> An important heads-up for those of you planning on getting this kit; it is essential that you also order the brass photo-etch aftermarket sheet for this edition; all of the raised details of the computer banks of the bulkhead walls have been eliminated and are smooth surfaces. Decals are also helpful, but the brass etch sheet is a must-have.


Awesome! I ordered the etch with the kit so should be good now.


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## John P

Can't say as I like that development.


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## Richard Baker

Removing detail so that purchasing aftermarket detail sets becomes mandatory is both astonishing and repugnant. 
This is not trying to save costs by having an incomplete cockpit tub in the Mk7, this is actually spending money to alter existing molds which were fine as is. 

Altering the hull join- be it good or bad is a matter opinion.

Adding figures- generally considered to be a good thing.

Stripping detail so you have to spend an additional $40 to build an $80 model kit????
Moebius, WTF are you thinking?


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## djnick66

why on earth would you remove detail as 90% of the people that buy the kit would build it out of the box. that was dumb


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## Seaview

Opus Penguin said:


> Awesome! I ordered the etch with the kit so should be good now.




Yeah, and I was lucky in that I already had the photo etch and decals in my supply drawer because I ordered them and didn't use them when I built my first two. But what about all the kit buyers who will be surprised by this? Also, using brass photo-etch, like wiring any lighting kit, is an acquired skill.
I think the final model will turn out better than the first edition, but really can't say as I approve of not warning potential buyers of needing to purchase extras.


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## WOI

Aren't we going to see a preview of the reissue of this kit?


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## RMC

WOI said:


> Aren't we going to see a preview of the reissue of this kit?


I was hoping to see it too


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## Seaview

RMC said:


> I was hoping to see it too





Me, too. I'm leaving that for one of the professionals who come here occasionally to do that, complete with pics and a nice write-up. As it is, I don't even have a digital camera or a cell phone.


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## Moebius

I shouldn't be surprised at what gets posted over here, but it still makes me scratch my head why there is an obvious issue, and no one can bother to contact our office and ask a simple question before it becomes an issue. As Dave posted elsewhere, this is something that surprised us completely, as the only changes we made were the hull. No clue as to why the factory would change anything else. But we can guarantee we will have replacement parts for anyone that purchased a new kit and needs them. In the future, please try to have some common sense and bring it to OUR attention at our office. I DO NOT come to this board, so I'm not sure what sort of answer you expect when you just wonder to yourselves and think the worst of us.


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## Seaview

Moebius said:


> I shouldn't be surprised at what gets posted over here, but it still makes me scratch my head why there is an obvious issue, and no one can bother to contact our office and ask a simple question before it becomes an issue. As Dave posted elsewhere, this is something that surprised us completely, as the only changes we made were the hull. No clue as to why the factory would change anything else. But we can guarantee we will have replacement parts for anyone that purchased a new kit and needs them. In the future, please try to have some common sense and bring it to OUR attention at our office. I DO NOT come to this board, so I'm not sure what sort of answer you expect when you just wonder to yourselves and think the worst of us.




Mr. Winspur,
I did not see Dave Metzners post, and this came as a complete surprise to me. The fact that you were already well aware of it made bringing this your attention futile, so I decided to bring this to the attention of my fellow modellers. I do NOT think the worst of you or your fine company, and am glad that you will make replacement parts available to those who wish to order them.
However, I respectfully recommend please alert on-line sellers to advertise about this removal of the computer panel raised details, until a note can be added to the box.
Thank you for your time, and for another fine kit.


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## John P

Okay, it's good to know Moebius isn't responsible for removing the detail. The question then is why on Earth the factory would do it without telling Moebius! That's just crazy!


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## zike

Moebius said:


> I shouldn't be surprised at what gets posted over here, but it still makes me scratch my head why there is an obvious issue, and no one can bother to contact our office and ask a simple question before it becomes an issue. ... I DO NOT come to this board, so I'm not sure what sort of answer you expect when you just wonder to yourselves and think the worst of us.


In our defense (although I have made no previous comment at all on this subject), it was perfectly natural for modelers to assume that Moebius was responsible for the change. The buck has to stop somewhere and the company with their name on the box should be responsible for quality control.

If I buy a Chevrolet with missing armrests, I would blame Chevrolet. I would not expect them to say, "It surprised us completely...we have no clue as to why our supplier did that". If it says Chevrolet on the badge, it's their job to catch it.

Common sense works both ways.

If we get a kit with a change or omission we are going to assume that the company named on the box made a change. If we, as modelers, have erred, it is our error to believe that Moebius was paying attention and would take the responsibily of catching problems BEFORE whining to us about our lack of common sense.


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## Dave Metzner

Common sense, in this case, is that the original steel tooling would have the details as in the first kit - since there was no directive to change that, and steel tools don't change themselves, there was no need to check those parts. 
We only needed to check the few parts we made changes to, which we did.
We've re-issued a number of kits, and we order small runs of older kits over and over, all the time, without checking every part of those kits before each production run.
This may lead us to change that policy, but there has never been any logical reason to check parts made from existing tooling in the past.
I don't know why or how changed were made - I've sent two very pointed e-mails to my guy at the factory demanding an explanation. Until he returns my e-mails I have no idea why those parts were altered.
As I have mentioned in other posts - it is Chinese New Year and our factories are on shut -down for the holiday - so it may be a couple weeks before I have any real answers.


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## GEH737

In the bad Chevy analogy - wouldn't it make a whole lot more sense to talk to Chevy directly, rather than making accusatory comments on a public forum??? It seems like interpersonal behavior is a lost art. If you have an issue with something - take it up with that entity first. Person to person (if you're courteous and polite) usually gets results. If there's no response - then report that. It just seems so weird now that so many who feel they've been "wronged" - now use the Internet for validation as their first course of action.


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## djnick66

If a kit appeared with changes its logical and normal to assume the company made the changes. You wouldn't think oh, someone in Chicomville decided to alter the mold for fun and not tell anyone.


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## John P

Okay, I think everybody has good points here. It was logical for the consumers to assume the manufacturer did it on purpose, and it was logical for the manufacturer to assume their supplier wouldn't screw with existing parts. Dave says they're trying to find out what happened, and replacing the parts. 

Just another one of those little bumps on the road of life. All will be well in the end.


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## Owen E Oulton

Apparently, this was an unasked-for Chinese "value-added" thing, like lead paint, or melamine in infant formula. Moebius seem to be as upset as their customers. :tongue:


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## Richard Baker

John P said:


> Okay, I think everybody has good points here. It was logical for the consumers to assume the manufacturer did it on purpose, and it was logical for the manufacturer to assume their supplier wouldn't screw with existing parts. Dave says they're trying to find out what happened, and replacing the parts.
> 
> Just another one of those little bumps on the road of life. All will be well in the end.


Agreed
:thumbsup:


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## enterprise_fanatic

WOI said:


> Aren't we going to see a preview of the reissue of this kit?


I can't provide a preview but I can show you the panels that have been "changed".

Except for the new joint seam on the body and the "new panels" I don't see any other noticable changes. Oh, almost forgot about the crew members.


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## WOI

That's good enough,anything better than nothing.


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## Richard Baker

WOI said:


> That's good enough,anything better than nothing.


I think it is a pretty clear set of images showing what has changed for the reissued kit.


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## Mr. Wabac

Just curious - if someone was interested in making the kit with photo-etch rather than just the molded-on detail, would it be an advantage to purchase one of the "new non-authorized" kits ?
ie: would you have to remove all the molded-on details to make use of the photo-etch ? This would be a time saver.


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## Hunk A Junk

So what are the chances of ordering just the pilot figures for those of us who have unfinished copies of the old kit?


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## Paulbo

Mr. Wabac said:


> Just curious - if someone was interested in making the kit with photo-etch rather than just the molded-on detail, would it be an advantage to purchase one of the "new non-authorized" kits ?
> ie: would you have to remove all the molded-on details to make use of the photo-etch ? This would be a time saver.


Yes, with the original release you have to remove a bunch of raised detail, so I would imagine that this should be a time saver. Not having seen pictures, though, I don't know what else might have been done that might require some different modifications.


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## Paulbo

Hunk A Junk said:


> So what are the chances of ordering just the pilot figures for those of us who have unfinished copies of the old kit?


Probably better to ask the question directly on the Moebius Facebook page or use the email link on their website. Since neither Frank nor Dave frequent here, all you'll get here are guesses.


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## RSN

Frank has told me, as of a few months ago, that for now the figures are only available with the kit.


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## tedkitus

Hunk A Junk said:


> So what are the chances of ordering just the pilot figures for those of us who have unfinished copies of the old kit?


Order a resin cast set from Larson Designs. I think I paid $14 which included shipping. I just go them a few days ago and they look nice. He has a thread here in the Mobeius Models Forum: Mobeius Flying Sub Figures


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## Hunk A Junk

tedkitus said:


> Order a resin cast set from Larson Designs. I think I paid $14 which included shipping. I just go them a few days ago and they look nice. He has a thread here in the Mobeius Models Forum: Mobeius Flying Sub Figures


Terrific, man. Thanks!


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## Bwain no more

I know that Frank and Dave from Moebius are working hard to make sure they will have replacements for customers that want them, but for folks who have been on the fence about buying the reissue or getting an upgrade from Paul, it seems like this would be an opportunity to support both companies! By ordering the plastic kit from someone like CultTVMan, Starship Modeler or MegaHobby, that may have one of the problem kits, then grabbing the etch from Paul, you will have the chance to build the Flying Sub you have always wanted, then look forward to a much easier install than usual. Win/win ! BTW, I'm PRETTY sure Lou at Aztec Dummy still produces an EXCELLENT set of paint masks. :thumbsup:
Tom


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## Radiodugger

Bwain no more said:


> By ordering the plastic kit from someone...that may have one of the problem kits, then grabbing the etch from Paul, you will have the chance to build the Flying Sub you have always wanted...


Tom's right about that! The blue vinyl floor and a lighting kit (Voodoo?) are next...

Doug


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