# Has anyone heard from Trekmodeler lately?



## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

I've sent several emails c/o his website (and also PM'd him here) but have gotten no reply.

I normally don't start threads when trying to reach someone, but after several days of no email response I thought I'd check with the membership here to see if anyone has heard anything.

Long story short, I'm experiencing a slight issue with the 1:350 PL Refit plug-&-play light kit I purchased a while back. I suspect it's a fairly easy thing to fix, but I'm afraid if I try to correct the issue myself I'll only succeed in screwing up an otherwise fully functional light kit (there's a reason I purchased the plug-&-play version; electronics are not my forte). 

Anyway, if anyone out there knows Trekmodeler, and can get a message to him, I'd be grateful if you'd ask him to check his email.


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## MLCrisis32 (Oct 11, 2011)

I don't know him but I have seen several of these threads crop up on various sites. The usual answer is he is swamped, isn't taking new orders and appears to go underground for months. Try sending him a PM here and on check other sites like star ship Modeler.


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## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

Thanks for the reply MLCrisis32.

I understand being "swamped" (aren't we all), but I'll never understand "going underground" to the extent of being unable or unwilling to even acknowledge receipt of a longtime customer's email. I've sent several emails and PM's to Trekmodeler, with no response whatsoever. Not even a "Hey Carson, got your email, sorry for the inconvenience, I'm swamped but will get back to you as soon as I can." Is the courtesy of a quick boilerplate reply too much to ask for these days?

For the record, I'm not looking for my money back (yet), nor do I expect Trekmodeler to drop everything and tend to my needs immediately, and to the exclusion of all else. What I _do_ expect is for an aftermarket vendor to stand behind his (not inexpensive) products when they fail to function as advertised. Especially when the fix is probably a fairly simple matter to correct if you're the guy who made the kit to begin with. First and foremost, I expect a reasonably timely reply to a reasonably polite and respectful email.

Here's my original message, sent over a week ago. You tell me, am I being unreasonable here?

_Hi, Trekmodeler.

Unfortunately, I believe I may have encountered a glitch with the 1/350 PL Refit Enterprise light kit I purchased from you a while back.

Today, when I performed the recommended still-on-the-white-board light test, I discovered what appear to be some wiring errors. The good news is that ALL the lights appear to be functional. The bad news is the "blue/amber" switch does not switch the lights from blue to amber.

Instead, here's what happens:

When the main lighting switch is ON, and the "blue/amber" switch is switched to the LEFT: The four large white LEDs on the "secondary hull" white board switch OFF, and the impulse lights switch to amber.

When the main lighting switch is ON, and the "blue/amber" switch is switched to the RIGHT: The four large white LEDs switch ON, the impulse lights switch to red, and two other small white lights (one on the "secondary base unit" white board, and one on the "primary hull light unit" white board) turn OFF.

I'm attaching pix which I hope will help you determine the source of the problem may (I'm happy to supply additional pix, should you need them). 

Please let me know if there's anything I can do to correct the problem at my end. I have some small electrical experience, so if it's a matter of simply re-wiring a couple leads you could probably talk me through it. On the other hand, if it's a more complicated task, you guys would probably want to correct the issue yourselves (I'd hate to screw up an otherwise functional light kit).

As you know, this is a fairly costly item, and I'm anxious to correct the problem (one way or another) as soon as possible.

Please let me know how you'd like to proceed.

I look forward to hearing from you._

I'll continue to try and reach Trekmodeler via whatever means available, but I hafta say I'm pretty disappointed and discouraged by the whole "going underground" thing. Stuff like this gives the hobby a bad name.


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## MLCrisis32 (Oct 11, 2011)

Carson Dyle said:


> Thanks for the reply MLCrisis32.
> 
> I understand being "swamped" (aren't we all), but I'll never understand "going underground" to the extent of being unable or unwilling to even acknowledge receipt of a longtime customer's email.
> I'll continue to try and reach Trekmodeler via whatever means available, but I hafta say I'm pretty disappointed and discouraged by the whole "going underground" thing. Stuff like this gives the hobby a bad name.


I completely agree and I posted referencing this thread in another persons search for Acreation Models (also in this forum). Same issue, different vendor.


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

I don't get it either... I ran my own business for 10 years solid and I think in that 10 years (being open 6 to 7 days a week depending on the time if year) I think I missed 3 days of work which kept my store closed. During this time I moved three times, my mom passed away, I had a stomach infection and kidney stone and got divorced. But my costomers never had to try to track me down anywhere.


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## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

Just to be clear, I've done a LOT of business with a wide range of sci-fi kit after-marketeers over the years, and with a couple of exceptions I've always had very positive experiences. Vendors like ParaGrafix and DLM and Aztek Dummy ( just to name a few) produce terrific products, and they back those products up with efficient customer service. Unfortunately, one bad experience -- especially if it involves a particularly expensive product -- can really make a potential customer think twice about forking over his hard-earned dough in the future.

I know people get busy, and other responsibilities or commitments sometimes make it difficult to make a deadline, or to get a product out the door as quickly as a customer may like. Still, how much time and effort does it take to hit the reply button?

I just do not get it.


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## Griffworks (Jun 24, 2002)

Carson Dyle said:


> Thanks for the reply MLCrisis32.
> 
> I understand being "swamped" (aren't we all), but I'll never understand "going underground" to the extent of being unable or unwilling to even acknowledge receipt of a longtime customer's email. I've sent several emails and PM's to Trekmodeler, with no response whatsoever. Not even a "Hey Carson, got your email, sorry for the inconvenience, I'm swamped but will get back to you as soon as I can." Is the courtesy of a quick boilerplate reply too much to ask for these days?
> 
> *>SNIPPERS!<*


Yeah, I don't get it, either. You'd think that, if nothing else, those GK aftermarket producers would have at least learned from the mistakes of others. This seems to happen a couple times a year with one or two different AM producers. Heck, if nothing other than to shut this sort of thing nipped in the butt before it occurs, you'd think that they'd post a general "Just so everyone knows" sort of message on the various forums, send an email out to their customers with pending orders - they'll know who ordered what and how long ago - , and/or shut down their website so that customers can't order and put up a temp message on said website that they're not currently taking orders, but will eventually be back up. 

I've seen prolly a dozen GKAMers over the last decade or so that have had similar threads to this pop up on a variety of forums. Usually it's a simple "has anyone heard from...?" sort of post, but after too long the pitchforks and torches come out and the Lynch Mob Mentality starts up. I'm not saying that folks don't have a right to be frustrated after a long wait, but if you know PayPal or your CC/Banks rules governing charge back's, you attempt contact via standard communications means, post a "has anyone heard from...?" message on forums and eventually consider posting a "Warning:" thread once you've exhausted all other means and you've gotten your money back. The latter I highly caution to be used as a last resort, but it's also only fair to warn your fellow modelers. 

:shrug: Not much more to say beyond that, I guess.


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## jheilman (Aug 30, 2001)

On the Replica Prop Forum, this also occurs occasionally. Sometimes, members are really trying a scam. They have a lot of debt and promise something they can't deliver, take upfront cash and leave everyone hanging. 

More often then not, they encounter some type of personal setback or tragedy, start to get behind on orders and it snowballs. Hope it works out.


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## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

I don't think Trekmodeler was/ is out to intentionally scam anyone.

Unfortunately, when a vendor like Trekmodeler decides he's too overwhelmed, for whatever reason, to so much as _respond_ to an email like the one referenced above, well... it does tend to send the wrong message. 

As in, "I don't care if you're having a problem with my 1/350 PL Enterprise light kit because I already have your money, and thus have no incentive to help address any issues you may be experiencing with the faulty product I sold you."

Sigh.


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## Bay7 (Nov 8, 1999)

Yeah I used to sell Lcars style back lit graphics in my spare time and it was really easy to get overwhelmed when business was good.

I guess as consumers, we don't really have much experience ordering custom made items from someone who makes them in his/her basement/bedroom/yard.

A guy who had ordered a $600 set of images wasn't happy as there was a defect (understandable!) and wanted a replacement, which was okay with me but it had taken 2 weeks to get the order made up and 3-5 smaller orders were going through by then, partially paid for by the $600 order - and everyone wants their stuff yesterday........!

We've all heard the tales of horror - waiting up to 2 years etc, I guess its the name of the game if you don't order from someone like Federation models, CultTVman or starshipmodeler etc where the products are ready and waiting.

Hope he gets back to you - I'd like to order his refit painting guide but not if he's already swamped.

Steve


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## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

Bay7 said:


> I'd like to order his refit painting guide but not if he's already swamped.


Oh, I'm sure he'd be happy to take your money for a paint guide. All he has to do is pop a CD in the mail. I ordered one myself a couple months back, and received prompt delivery. Very instructive manual, I must say. Ron Gress is a friend of mine, and I bet even he would be impressed by the thoroughness of Trekmodeler's research.

Maybe if I started offering free copies of his guide online it would get Trekmodeler's attention.


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## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

Update: Finally heard back from someone at Trekmodeler. Trading emails now, so we'll see what happens.

Better late than never, I guess.


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## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

So, once the guys at Trekmodeler finally responded to my emails they cleared up the issue I was having lickety-split. Perhaps not surprisingly, the problem was not with the product but with my (mis)understanding of the product's functions.

It's been said before, but I'll say it again: poor communication = unhappy customer. Good communication = happy customer.


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## jheilman (Aug 30, 2001)

An internal saying we have about issues at work, 
"It's never NOT communication."


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

Its always funny how people get "unbusy" or computer problems are suddenly resolved when people start to grouse and poke about. It's miraculous what a Pay Pal complaint can do.


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## Proper2 (Dec 8, 2010)

djnick66 said:


> Its always funny how people get "unbusy" or computer problems are suddenly resolved when people start to grouse and poke about. It's miraculous what a Pay Pal complaint can do.


Yes, a PayPal reference is always very convincing. When I e-mail a seller I always include the PayPal transaction ID in the subject line and at the head of the e-mail. That always gets a prompt response.


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## GSaum (May 26, 2005)

Carson Dyle said:


> It's been said before, but I'll say it again: poor communication = unhappy customer. Good communication = happy customer.


And that's exactly why I've been a little hesitant to send some of the gk'ers any of my money for their products. While I don't doubt the quality of their work, and I recognize they have lives outside of modeling, they need to understand that if they are running a business, then they need to devote the time to said business. In the business world, there simply is no excuse for bad customer service. As a teacher who also manages an Amazon store, I know this first hand. I don't care if I've put in a 15 hour day at my school. If I come home and find that I have 5 customers who have ordered DVDs, then I will box them up and have them ready to ship the next morning. Yes, it's a little extra effort on my part, but that's what I signed up for when I started my own online business. If I wasn't as quick, my customers would leave negative feedback and I would lose business. A few of these garage kit makers could learn a thing or two about basic business management. The unfortunate part is that their lack of respect for their customers not only damages their business but also that of other garage kit sellers.


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

GSaum said:


> The unfortunate part is that their lack of respect for their customers not only damages their business but also that of other garage kit sellers.


They don't care about the other guy in a lot of cases . 

There is another part of the story that allows this type of thing to happen over and over and that part is the customers who want what's being sold, and won't see they might be dealing with a seller with a poor track record.

If you ask about a vendor and most posted replies are negative then don't be surprised if you end up in the same boat as the others....and if you post in one of those threads and you have bought the item from someone other than the seller make it clear that you haven't dealt with the person 1 on 1.


Three simple rules I follow when I sell on line...
1. Don't sell stuff you don't have in hand!!!!!
2. Be prepared to refund folks money if needed!
3. Answer emails. Really it's simple answer the question, or address any issue.


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

One thing I see happen a lot of times is that customers somehow justify bad service. They say well so and so makes such a good product its worth the wait. They accept a company treating a paid customer like crap to get a tidbit of resin or metal they paid good money for. They wait for months and months and even years still saying "its worth the wait his stuff is so good".

I can't stand that. A vendor should respond to an order promptly. Ship it out, or at last acknowledge the receipt of the order. Send an update or something. Given you can do email from a telephone these days, there is no excuse that you are "too busy". It takes just a few seconds.

I think also a lot of garage type vendors who may be well meaning, let things slide and don't realize the effect it has on their reputation. A business is a business. If you are making things to sell, you are, in effect, working for your customers. A real business is not a hobby. If you don't have an item, don't advertize it and take people's money. If you can't produce it, don't take people's money. I see a lot of vendors start out good then service starts to slide. Then I hear oh they are busy or oh he had a death in the family (that lasted for years?), or he was sick or he got laid off... it just piles up. Retro Resin was one of those outfits. At one time they were supposedly really prompt and efficent. Then, as time went on, they got slower and slower. You started to hear stuff like "when you get your stuff its worth the wait" but then items never shipped. More and more people were asking where their products were... Now, I suppose, Retro is gone.


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## DinoMike (Jan 1, 1970)

djnick66 said:


> Retro Resin was one of those outfits. At one time they were supposedly really prompt and efficent. Then, as time went on, they got slower and slower. You started to hear stuff like "when you get your stuff its worth the wait" but then items never shipped. More and more people were asking where their products were... Now, I suppose, Retro is gone.


 I suppose you could say that, as the guy who ran it is gone. (As in, deceased.)


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## Wattanasiri (Aug 15, 2010)

One benefit of these threads is the heads-up warning to others about specific companies/people not to do business with. Currently, this forum has threads pertaining to three different entities (Acreation Models, G-Factor, Trekmodeler) who have taken their customer's money sent in good faith for products and failed to promptly keep their end of the bargain. Being a small company provides no excuse for being irresponsible or failing to communicate properly. In life, each of us has been hit hard with unfortunate circumstances. Bad luck is not an entitlement or prepaid forgiveness for bad behavior.

With these incidents in mind, perhaps the better judgment from this point forward is to choose alternative model-making methods in place of these products or do without or choose competitive products from people or companies with track records of appreciating their customer's business and good faith through good communications and doing what they are supposed to do. There are plenty of good companies and people out there. Being a customer is not being a volunteer hostage to other peoples' problems or failures.


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

DinoMike said:


> I suppose you could say that, as the guy who ran it is gone. (As in, deceased.)


Yes but he was not deceased for a while when his service slipped yet his web site was still accepting orders. It seems his company's decline went on for a few years.


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

djnick66 said:


> One thing I see happen a lot of times is that customers somehow justify bad service. They say well so and so makes such a good product its worth the wait. They accept a company treating a paid customer like crap to get a tidbit of resin or metal they paid good money for. They wait for months and months and even years still saying "its worth the wait his stuff is so good".


If it wasn't buried in a members only section at Resin Illuminati I'd point you to a thread started by a seller of aftermarket stuff who posted a response to an email he sent asking if a kit maker was still interested in him doing a run of decals for him.
He couldn't understand why the kit maker was mad at him even when his email pointed out that it had been over a year from the time the kit maker asked him to do the run till he replied to the original email.

In the thread several folks supported him and talked about issues that slowed him down as well as how nice his product was, even with a "wheres ****" thread starting at SSM by a person who was owed product.

To be fair to Trekmodeler this isn't a case where a seller took someone's money then never shipped the order. It was a case of trying to get a question answered about a product he sold. Even with him taking a while to answer he did follow through, and that shows he still cares about his customers.


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## teslabe (Oct 20, 2007)

Wattanasiri said:


> One benefit of these threads is the heads-up warning to others about specific companies/people not to do business with. Currently, this forum has threads pertaining to three different entities (Acreation Models, G-Factor, Trekmodeler) who have taken their customer's money sent in good faith for products and failed to promptly keep their end of the bargain. Being a small company provides no excuse for being irresponsible or failing to communicate properly. In life, each of us has been hit hard with unfortunate circumstances. Bad luck is not an entitlement or prepaid forgiveness for bad behavior.


http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=395670

Let's not forget about "secretreeve"......


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## Proper2 (Dec 8, 2010)

teslabe said:


> http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=395670
> 
> Let's not forget about "secretreeve"......


Wow! Again, PayPal is the safe way to go. Open up a claim before 45 days and you're covered. If the seller has no tracking number, as in the example of "secretreeve," you get your $$ back pronto.


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## teslabe (Oct 20, 2007)

Proper2 said:


> Wow! Again, PayPal is the safe way to go. Open up a claim before 45 days and you're covered. If the seller has no tracking number, as in the example of "secretreeve," you get your $$ back pronto.


For me, he never sent the money he said he would for the circuit I built. PayPal was not involved yet and wouldn't have help me since the money was to come from him. Yes, I know, I should have had him pay first..... My point was his ethics or rather, lack of and warn others to steer clear.


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## Proper2 (Dec 8, 2010)

teslabe said:


> For me, he never sent the money he said he would for the circuit I built. PayPal was not involved yet and wouldn't have help me since the money was to come from him. Yes, I know, I should have had him pay first..... My point was his ethics or rather, lack of and warn others to steer clear.


Yeah, you should have asked for at least 50% up-front.


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## mach7 (Mar 25, 2002)

I see this over and over again on different forums.

I don't think there is any excuse. Everyone has heard the bad stories,excuses,delaying tactics.

Shanko is a perfect example. He produced great trek prop kits for reasonable $$ but when he could not deliver the excuses started and then he went quiet.

IF YOU CAN'T DELIVER DONT TAKE PEOPLES MONEY!

For a short time I sold some kits of the Garth remote, I never took money until
I had the kit ready to mail. Is that so hard?

If people emailed a question I answered it within a day. Is that so hard?


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

mach7 said:


> I see this over and over again on different forums.
> 
> I don't think there is any excuse. Everyone has heard the bad stories,excuses,delaying tactics.
> 
> ...


I've gotten ripped off one time in a similar situation (Thomas Models/PNTModels.com). Despite contacting the individual on a couple of occasions via email, he refused to reimburse me and stated no intention of ever delivering the items. He no longer does business through his website but apparently felt no need to make good or reimburse those he's ripped off.

Since then, I've refused to buy from garage-kit sellers unless the items are sold through very firmly established companies such as Starshipmodeler.com, Fantastic Plastic, CultTVMan, Megahobby, etc. 

I've sold some stuff in the past (not model related) that I took too long in delivering once (so I understand how real-life interferes with hobby stuff and business) but I gave the money back to the person who was dissatisfied. There's no excuse for taking someone's money and refusing to deliver. It is theft and fraud.


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## jheilman (Aug 30, 2001)

mach7 said:


> ...I never took money until I had the kit ready to mail. Is that so hard?
> 
> If people emailed a question I answered it within a day. Is that so hard?


For some, apparently yes.:freak: Prompt email responses are always a good sign dealing with an online purchase, whether here, eBay or any online marketplace. I think some people view email the way I view facebook. I have it cause it's what everyone does, but I almost never log in or respond to anything because if I really took the time needed to keep up, I'd have no spare time at all.


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## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

swhite228 said:


> To be fair to Trekmodeler this isn't a case where a seller took someone's money then never shipped the order. It was a case of trying to get a question answered about a product he sold. Even with him taking a while to answer he did follow through, and that shows he still cares about his customers.


Yes, and I'd hate for this point to get lost amongst the other issues being raised here. Although it did take awhile for Trekmodeler to reply to my initial email, reply he did, and as a result my issues with his product were quickly laid to rest. 

Just want the record to reflect that, when all was said and done, Trekmodeler came through. At least, for me he did.


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

teslabe said:


> http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=395670
> 
> Let's not forget about "secretreeve"......


How about the guy who "died" owing people props at the RPF. He seemed to get better after a few years passed and folks started to forget him.

Or my all time favorite bad vendor Gregg Stone. At least he had the courtesy to give us a film of him breaking into the Trek NG sets.


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