# Refit Interior Pics



## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

Greetings! I admit it. I love looking at pics of the progress everyone is making on their refits. In the interest of getting the pic swapping into full gear, I thought I'd post some of my own. These pics aren't the best (still figuring out my new diaptor rings for my camera), so please forgive the bad photography!

The first two pics are of my VIP lounge, in which I used the L'arsenal resin figures (these little guys are awesome!), and made a few custom decals. If you squint, you can see Chris White's lithograph of the Enterprise in one of the 'viewscreens'.

VIP Lounge Pic 1 

VIP Lounge Pic 2 

This next one is my rip off of the fantastic Arboretum that was posted on here a couple of weeks ago. In mine, I added a rock face to both walls, because I thought Kirk would need a rock climbing surface handy on his ship...

Arboretum Pic 

These next two are of something I'm trying out with the shuttlebay floor. I scratchbuilt one of the shuttlecraft 'elevators' and plan to have it half-lifted with a inspection pod and L'arsenal figure on it...

Shuttlebay Floor 

Shuttlebay Elevator 

My final picture is of one of the shuttlebay walls. I've hollowed out the workerbee area because I want the workerbees to hang in their storage areas facing aft, just like in the matte painting. There's only enough room for two workerbees in this configuration, instead of the three displayed in the painting, but that's okay. Since this pic was taken, I've added the seperator wall between the two slots and primed the part. It looks pretty cool! You might also notice some railings in there from Tom's Modelworks and three vertical supports that were missing from the piece (as per the matte painting).

Shuttlebay Wall 

I'd love some feedback on these, as I haven't done a model in 16 years. This kit is so much fun! I feel like a kid again!


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## WarpCore Breach (Apr 27, 2005)

I'm not ready to start mine yet... but yours is coming along GREAT!

Thanks for sharing the pics!! Very inspiring!!! :thumbsup:


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## norge71 (Apr 13, 2004)

I love what you've done with the VIP lounge. I was planning on scaling a picture of a sailing ship (the Constitution) for the wall instead of the shots of the nacelles, so I'm glad someone else was thinking along those lines.


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## Thom S. (Sep 28, 2004)

THIS is why I designed this kit to include the interior rooms!

_GREAT_ job, Krako!


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

Thanks, guys! And Thomas, there could be no greater compliment. Thank you for putting your heart and soul into this. It really shows in every part of this thing.


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## Alkalilake (May 13, 2005)

Looking good Dude. What's your plan for lighting this stuff up?


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## Alkalilake (May 13, 2005)

By the way, how cool is it that the guy who designed the kit is on the forum seeing what we do to the kit? Way to go Thomas. Good thing there wasn't a forum with the guy who did the old non-smoothy kit on it. He'd be burned at the stake! :devil:


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## Lloyd Collins (Sep 25, 2004)

Looking real good! I like the way you go original, and do it your way. Whai I want to see is how the hanger bay will look, after you finish it.


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

Poor ol' non-smoothy guy. He's probably as glad as everyone else that this kit is out. A big ol' monkey off his back.

Norge71, that's a great idea with the Constitution. It'll look really stunning. One thing I did with the viewports was to mask the fronts and backs of them, so that I could place a light behind them and make them appear to be an ambient source like a monitor or TV screen. 

As for lighting the interior, Alkalilake... I plan on waiting patiently for a big box full of led's configured for me by jwrjr, as I really don't want to burn my house down (which is what would happen if I attempted to wire this sucka up myself).

Who else has pics to share? come on, there's gotta be some out there...


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## Alkalilake (May 13, 2005)

Krako said:


> Who else has pics to share? come on, there's gotta be some out there...


All my pics are of the Deboer. My PL kit is still in the box. One catastrophy at a time....


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## Lloyd Collins (Sep 25, 2004)

I'm waiting for the box.


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## Raist3001 (Oct 23, 2003)

Geat work Krako. Very well done. Which set of brass railings did you use for the shuttlebay walls?


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## JGG1701 (Nov 9, 2004)

Most excellant !!! :thumbsup:


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## ccbor (May 27, 2003)

Very very fine work. no pun intended. 

thanks
Rob


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

Raist, Tom's Modelworks has a photoetch sheet called "Ships Rails with Ladders, 5 styles of rail" that I used. It has all kinds of different types of railings. I actually used two different types of railings just to vary up the detail. I cut strips for the vertical supports out of the extra bits on the railings sheet.

Has anyone else been using the L'arsenal figures? I decided to paint mine TMP style, but I'd love to see someone's TWOK version of these figures.

Also, a bummer for me this morning was fitting the VIP window to the saucer and trying to see detail behind it. Is there a way to thin the clear plastic? Wouldn't I just scratch it up? Maybe Thomas will make aftermarket windows???


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## justinleighty (Jan 13, 2003)

Try coating the clear piece with Future (acrylic floor polish) to see if that helps you see through. You can sand, but you'll have to use lots of grades of sandpaper, from somewhat coarse (to thin it) working to very, very fine (like 3000 grit cloth), then you'll probably have to use a Future coat to make it completely clear again.


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## norge71 (Apr 13, 2004)

I was thinking those windows were going to be a problem. Dang.


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## fruggle (May 8, 2005)

Fantastic pics!
Could you please give me the part number of the figures from L'arsenal?
I would like to buy them from Hannants site but can't find them when I search their site.
Thanks.
fruggle


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## JonD (Apr 18, 2002)

Hi Fruggle,

You can buy the '3D' resin figures direct from l'Arsenal here:

http://www.larsenal.com/GB/catalogue/Arsenal/1_350.php

The parts you want are: AC 350 25 - Personnages échelle 1/350 1/400 en résine
(Incidentally, they do excellent railings too: AC 350 02 - Rambardes.)

The only 1/350 fugures I've been able to find on the Hannants site are the 'flat' photo-etched ones - which I'm sure are fine. Their model numbers are: Eduard ED17501 (pre-painted) or Gold Medal GM350-08.

Jon


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

I ordered both of L'arsenal's 1/350 figure sets (AC 350 25: Personnages échelle 1/350 1/400 en résine & AC 350 33 Marins aux postes de combat / Naval figures at combat post). There are subtle differences between the figures. I've had to sand the hats and helmets off of both types (snapped a few heads off that way). I highly recommend these figures. It was the first time I had ordered anything from France and it was worth it just to see the package and postage!


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## Captain America (Sep 9, 2002)

justinleighty said:


> Try coating the clear piece with Future (acrylic floor polish) to see if that helps you see through. You can sand, but you'll have to use lots of grades of sandpaper, from somewhat coarse (to thin it) working to very, very fine (like 3000 grit cloth), then you'll probably have to use a Future coat to make it completely clear again.


Pretty much what I did to them...I haven't gotten to the puttying or painting phase, but I sanded the outside 'glass' smooth with one of those emery-style foam files, and then used the progressive sanding sheets...up to 12,000 grit. Smooth as a baby's backside! I hit it with some plastic polish and then glued it flush. I figure masking the window shapes will be a bit easier now. I have to wait and see what the primer coat reveals as far as gaps around the edges... :wave:


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## Raist3001 (Oct 23, 2003)

Stupid question, but does l'Arsenal ship to the US?


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## spe130 (Apr 13, 2004)

Krako said:


> It was the first time I had ordered anything from France and it was worth it just to see the package and postage!


I think this answers the shipping question.


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## Raist3001 (Oct 23, 2003)

D'OH!! Ya see, what happens when idiots like me don't read thru the entire thread?!? Thanks SPE130 for taking the time to repost that in answer to my question.


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## justinleighty (Jan 13, 2003)

As an added plus with the l'Arsenal figures, I'm thinking that the blocks of resin to which the figures are attached can easily be shaped and cut to be cargo containers. They're about half the width of the wall cargo enclosures (each of which holds four cargo containers) and long enough for at least four or five, so you can get probably eight or 10 containers out of each block.


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

Thank you, justinleighty! I've been trying to figure out how I was going to do the cargo containers. You just made my day!

I'm going to try sanding down the clear windows and polishing them... Glad I bought more than one kit!


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## JeffG (May 10, 2004)

Awesome stuff! Those L'arsenal figures really make it kick, where do you get them? I think I'm gonna rip the etched metal figs out of my garden and use these guys!


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## fruggle (May 8, 2005)

JonD said:


> Hi Fruggle,
> 
> You can buy the '3D' resin figures direct from l'Arsenal here:
> 
> ...


Many thanks! I spent ages trying to find these. From what I have read here they are very useful additions to the kit.
Cheers mate.
fruggle


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## spe130 (Apr 13, 2004)

Raist...I had actually found an old thread searching on here a few weeks back that mentioned ordering them direct from L'Arsenal. I just couldn't resist a bit of sarcasm...sorry about that... There are days you just can't let me out of the house. :tongue:


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## Steven Coffey (Jan 5, 2005)

Great work man ! I like the L'arsenal figures as well . One thing is too bad about the interior of the ship only a little is visiable from the outside .I look at as I know what is in there even if no one else will .


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## Richard Compton (Nov 21, 2000)

Someone could do a little dio of people around one of those saucer egress elevators that they used to go meet V'ger in TMP. That'd be pretty cool, and make it easier to see the people.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Terrific job! I like your choices for the interior decorations and the paint job is incredible!


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## Raist3001 (Oct 23, 2003)

spe130 said:


> Raist...I had actually found an old thread searching on here a few weeks back that mentioned ordering them direct from L'Arsenal. I just couldn't resist a bit of sarcasm...sorry about that... There are days you just can't let me out of the house. :tongue:


No need for any apology Thanks again for taking the time to answer my question


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## Lloyd Collins (Sep 25, 2004)

The hardest part of painting the 1/350 figures,are the eyes!


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

^^ Yeah! Especially the irises!


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## Bay7 (Nov 8, 1999)

As much as I'd like to do the botanical gardens 'as is', I'd rather try to make it look the way it does in the movies.

I've been studying the gardens where visible, on the first couple of movies. TWOK seems to be the best bet as far as seeing an interior - although, if I didn't know there were trees in there - I wouldn't have guessed!

The clearest I can make out is that the garden does not extend right across the width of the hull - as there is what appears to be curved/angled wall behind the detailed area (which looks like a row of trees running along the length of the windows).

I guess this arrangement would make sense as the mounting joint would go through the center of the section (I think).

I can't see anything that points to there being any detail starboard side and in the later movies, the port side started to look like the interior had gone also (when the E does a flyby on the BoP's viewscreen - at that angle, an interior should be seen if there is one).

Anyway, I've attched an image of my theoretical garden plan (sorry about the qaulity)!


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## Thom S. (Sep 28, 2004)

The garden in the model appeared to be just random clumps of lychen placed behind the portside windows.

The model has a large structural support running down the middle making a garden room spanning the width of the secondary hull impossible. The starboard side windows, when viewed close up, reveals internal wiring.

If you want to model the model version, go for it! Or, you could add a lot more trees and shrubs in the room making it difficult to see thru to the other side.


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

I didn't paint any eyes on my L'Arsenal figures, except for the Saurian I did (he's supposed to have big fish eyes). I did manage to paint some antennae on an Andorian in my arboretum!


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## Lloyd Collins (Sep 25, 2004)

Thomas, where are pictures of your finished refit? You have had the model for months now. And don't say you have been busy!


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## TheYoshinator! (Apr 2, 2004)

Yay! Thomas knows I love a good pic! Something new I'd never gotten a good look at.

Thanks Thomas, as always!


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## fokkerpilot (Jul 22, 2002)

Spectacular work!!! Just one question on the figuines: Doesn't anyone make anything like these in the US?

Jack


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## Raist3001 (Oct 23, 2003)

fokkerpilot said:


> Just one question on the figuines: Doesn't anyone make anything like these in the US?
> 
> Jack


good question


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

I wasn't able to find any, but there may be someone who does.


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## JeffG (May 10, 2004)

The photoetch figures are better for what we're doing because things compress as they approach the speed of light! Sorry, I had to.


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

Photo etch figures would accurately depict the Enterprise crew if the inertial dampeners had failed.


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## justinleighty (Jan 13, 2003)

Krako said:


> Photo etch figures would accurately depict the Enterprise crew if the inertial dampeners had failed.


More like blobs of red paint!


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

Perhaps a little green blob for Spock.


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

Inspired by Cinc2020's fantastic arboretum and hangar pics, I decided to post a little more of what I've been working on. After seeing Cinc's pics, I think I'm gonna go back and add more to what I've already done on the hangar. Anyway, here's some vehicle and hangar shots...

Hangar pic 1 
Hangar pic 2 
Hangar pic 3 
Hangar pic 4 

Starfleet shuttle - It's probably not canon, but I based it on some awesome 3D renders that have been posted here and on other forums. It's not easy to see in these pics, but there's an interior with a pilot. I've designed it so that the interior will be lit via fiber optics. 

Shuttle pic 1 
Shuttle pic 2 

Inspection pod - this little guy will be perched on a raised elevator (seen in pic). I'm working on another one that will be lit from the inside for one of the side ports of the ship.

Pod pic 1 
Pod pic 2

I apologize for the cruddy pics. I need to just break down and buy a macro lens...


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## lastguardian (May 20, 2005)

Excellent work, Krako! 

And how in the world did you do that fine panel work on the travel pod?

Shane


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

Shane -

Those are the diagrams from "Mr. Scott's Guide to the Enterprise" shrunken down and printed out on decal paper. That book is the gift that keeps on giving, man!


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## Prowler901 (Jun 27, 2005)

Yes, how did you do that?! That's some awesome work! Love the shuttle too 

Todd

Doh!! Posted that question at the same time you posted the answer Krako  Sure is a GREAT book isn't it?


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## dan1701d (Jun 9, 2004)

Holy crap krako, that is just awesome work, I hope when we get our club going I can see that in person cause that will be so inspirational when I finally start to really work on mine, just have her taped up and sitting behing my NX in pieces now as I work on it, lol.


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## cinc2020 (May 10, 2004)

Krako,

Absolutely fantastic work! I love the figures your using - I will get those and replace the one's I used (which look like cardboard cutouts).

Your attention to detail and the fine steady hand on the paint jobs are remarkable.

Now, you've inspired me with ideas. I love this exchange of info - it keeps us on our toes 

Great job!


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Excellent, Krako! I can't believe anyone could do what you've done at that scale with those small sub-models!


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## Lloyd Collins (Sep 25, 2004)

Knowing how SMALL the crew members and shuttles are, that is awesome job, Krako!

I do have a question. In the photo showing the crew, handrails, and hanger with bees, why did you turn the rail back to the wall, blocking walk way to hanger? The paintings by Andrew Probert, the walk way goes from the hanger to the cargo bays. Did you know that or are you just making it different?


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## JeffG (May 10, 2004)

And I thought I was sick! Awesome.


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## Steven Coffey (Jan 5, 2005)

Krako ,Builders like you keep me logging on to this board every day ! Absolutely beautiful ! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

Thanks for the compliments everyone! Lloyd, I believe you've just pointed out something I missed in the matte paintings. Oh well.  There are some other departures from the matte painting on my hangar, but those were all intentional (I think). The railings look good (IMHO) that way when the floor is in place. Maybe I'll leave them like that. I've stared at the pics of the hangar matte painting in the "Art of Star Trek" for hours it seems, but each time I look at it, I find something new. Ugghh. Someday, someday just maybe, I might actually get to work on the outside of the ship... :freak:


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## Lloyd Collins (Sep 25, 2004)

I know how easy it is to miss something. In fact on the model of the cargo deck, the wide walk way by the turbolift was not normally that wide. Andrew Probert said on his site that it is retracable, but the painting he did stuck that way. So if you make some changes, it might have been added later.


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

Hi everyone! It's been a long time since I posted any pics, so I thought I'd post a few. I've been preoccupied with real life, so I haven't made as much progress on the Refit as I would have liked. I'm still plugging away at the hangar deck, but I feel I've made some real progress. I'm posting some quickie digital camera shots, so I apologize for the cruddy pics. I'm going to take some shots with my good camera soon, and I'll post those when I get a chance. 

This shot shows layout of elements on the hangar deck floor. I used a spare floor to lay everything out on. I scratch-made barrels, crates and new turbolift tubes.

I stripped the shuttle I did a few months ago and started over from scratch. Here it is without its ID markings.

Here's the shuttle (with markings) on the hangar deck floor. Note the hangar doors I made from metal strips. 

Last shot. Here you can kinda see the illumination effect for inside the shuttle. I plan to run an LED up through a tube and into the shuttle. 

Again, sorry for the cruddy pics. Everyone who has posted pics of their refit on here have done such fantastic work. I felt I should share some of my small steps forward...


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## Garbaron (Apr 23, 2004)

AWSOME work !

Could you get a top view of the floor?

And what did you use for the new turboshafts?
Am not going to use the provided parts too but a styrene tube lit wiht an LED at the top and bottom, by this I can insert some paper or what ever at Kirks boarding level and simulate the turbo car inside the shaft.

Excelletn work on your part.....wihs I had reached the painting stage of the hangar too, but am still wating for the L'Arsenal Railing and crew.


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

Thanks, Garbaron! I'll take a shot of the hangar floor tonight. I used styrene tubing for the turbolift tubes (I'll have to check on what size it was). Then I made decals to wrap around the tubing. I measured the 'windows' in the original part to aid in laying out the decals. The silver strips are pactra tape which I topped off with a red stripe (off of the decal sheet from the kit). I think they look pretty good inside the hangar and the opaque tubing distributes the light well. 

I love the L'Arsenal figures. They've been a lot of fun to work on. I had a blast painting the figure in the shuttle - he's wearing an admiral's uniform. 

I forgot to post a pic of the hangar roof last night. I used various parts and greeblies to make it more visually interesting (IMHO).


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

Garbaron, here are some pics of my hangar floor. It's still not finished yet, as I need to apply dull coate to the black portion of the floor and the exterior of the fantail. 

Pic 1 
Pic 2 
Pic 3 
Pic 4 

Here's another shot of the scratch-made turbolift tube.

Also, here are the decals I created for the tubes. Maybe they'll come in useful when you start on yours.


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## JGG1701 (Nov 9, 2004)

You are truly doing WONDERFUL work!!!  
Keep up the good job !!! And thank you for the amazing pictures. :thumbsup:


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## bigjimslade (Oct 9, 2005)

norge71 said:


> I love what you've done with the VIP lounge. I was planning on scaling a picture of a sailing ship (the Constitution) for the wall instead of the shots of the nacelles, so I'm glad someone else was thinking along those lines.


You're not alone.....
This weekend I made a decal sheet of various "enterprises" in different sizes to put on the walls of the VIP lounge.

I will probably use a shuttle photo in the best spot because you can most clearly tell what it is. The ships tend to blend into the sea.


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## Garbaron (Apr 23, 2004)

Krako said:


> Garbaron, here are some pics of my hangar floor


  

Looks fantastic!

Love your hangar more and more. 
The bay doors retracted as you portrait them are a very nice touch too. 
Only one little thing: the dark grey paint job at the top of the fantail does not reach entirely towards the edge of the fantail...you might want to correct it so that there is a small band of the main color near the edge as can be seen here:
http://www.cloudster.com/Sets&Vehicles/STMPEnterprise/ColorPhotos/cSTMPent19.jpg


Thanks a lot my friend!

If it’s ok with you I’ll use the turbo shaft decals you did for mine too.
Just received my L’arsenal railing and figures (they are sooo tiny …how in the name of god did you paint them?)…all I need now is some quality spare time to get the hangar going….


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## bugs bunny (Dec 1, 2005)

WHOA! Great work man and thanks for the decal templates!


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## bugs bunny (Dec 1, 2005)

But if it is the TMP refit that you are doing, Doesn't that mean that there isn't any black fantail? I thought that the TMP refit's fantail was the same as the exterior base color.

Edit: Just checked it up, Black fantail is present on both versions. Sorry! :freak: :wave:


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

Thanks guys! Garbaron, I'll double check the grey area on mine and see what I can do. I put the final dull coate on it last night, so there may not be much else I can do to it.  

Feel free to use the decal template for your refit. I have a larger version in .psd format, if you need to access the individual layers of the graphic. I'd be happy to send it to you. Just pm me with your e-mail address.

The hangar has really been a lot of fun to work on. I wanted to take some extra time on it because it will be the only interior piece that won't be behind a window.

As for painting those L'Arsenal figures - I carefully trimmed them off of the resin block, removed the excess flash with a sharp blade, dipped them in black paint, and lightly sanded off their helmets (this part is tricky as it's easy to accidentally snap off their heads). then I held the figure by a leg with tweezers while painting the uniform and head. belt buckles were done with a flattened toothpick tip. insignia badges were done with the tip of a straight pin.


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## Garbaron (Apr 23, 2004)

Krako said:


> As for painting those L'Arsenal figures - I carefully trimmed them off of the resin block, removed the excess flash with a sharp blade, dipped them in black paint, and lightly sanded off their helmets (this part is tricky as it's easy to accidentally snap off their heads). then I held the figure by a leg with tweezers while painting the uniform and head. belt buckles were done with a flattened toothpick tip. insignia badges were done with the tip of a straight pin.


Invaluable information!

Thanks a bunch!

Just borrowed a squeezer table with attached magnifier form a friend, thought you might have used something like that.

As for the decals,
I’ll do a quick print and see if I can use the JPG file you posted above.


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## Guest (Jan 19, 2006)

<seriously impressed mode> Now THAT is the kinda work to aspire to</seriously impressed mode>

I will happily go from the basis that the exterior will match the interior in quality and attention to detail, so i do belive there is the makings of as near an 'ultimate refit' as is damint :thumbsup: :thumbsup: 

Salutations to you !


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

Thanks for the kind words, Raytheon. I think the title of "ultimate refit" may well belong to Raist3001 and some of the other guys around here who are creating some fantastic refits...

I"m very happy to finally be so close to finishing the shuttle bay. I'll start slathering on glue tomorrow. Man, will it feel good to finally be able to move on to another part of this model!

I test-fitted all of the main parts tonight and took some pics. You can really get a feel for how the lighting is going to look inside the shuttle bay from these pics.

Pic 1 
Pic 2


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

I meant to post some pics last weekend of my finished hangar deck, but my digital camera died on me. It's back in working order, so here are some pics. Again, sorry for the cruddy closeup shots. 

Pic 1 
Pic 2 
Pic 3 
Pic 4 
Pic 5

I'm also working on a rec deck... I know this isn't in scale with the rest of the interiors, but I really wanted something inside of there (and I'm not sure it's possible to make the rec deck to scale, given the space in there). I still have a ways to go in fitting this to the outside wall with the window ports. What's missing in the pic with the outside wall is a railing for the inside of the upper row of windows...

Pic 1 
Pic 2


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## jheilman (Aug 30, 2001)

Whoa!! We're not worthy!


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

A few more pics of the unfinished rec deck outer wall...

Pic 1 
Pic 2 
Pic 3 
Pic 4 
Pic 5


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## Guest (Jan 28, 2006)

Mega outstanding stuff and then some :thumbsup: 
Your refit is gonna be a sight to behold when finished, i for one am looking forward to seeing it.


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## Garbaron (Apr 23, 2004)

Awsome work!

God I wish I had more time to work on mine!
Perhaps tomorrow evening when I am getting off work......


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Wow! Krako! INCREDIBLE work!


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## Rogue1 (Jan 3, 2000)

Wow nice work!


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## fokkerpilot (Jul 22, 2002)

Excellent job Krako!! Bravo


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## Four Mad Men (Jan 26, 2004)

Absolutely incredible. People inside the shuttle and everything. Fantastic! The word ultimate has been used and the hangar deck certainly qualifies in my opinion.


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

Thanks for the kind words, everyone! 

Finished the rec deck today. Here are some shots of the finished piece. You can see the railing I added inside the second story windows in these...

Pic 1 
Pic 2 
Pic 3 
Pic 4
Pic 5 
Pic 6


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

Amazing. You've shown that it can be done! :thumbsup:


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## Four Mad Men (Jan 26, 2004)

UNCLE, UNCLE! That's it, I'm never building either of mine. Just not going to do it :freak:


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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

I think I'll just stick to my minmalist approach for a while....


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## Garbaron (Apr 23, 2004)

Did you include some of the L'Arsenal figures to the REC deck?
Can't tell from your pictures.

But one is sure... you are a GREAT inspiration to me


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## Lloyd Collins (Sep 25, 2004)

Just Fantastic! The Hangar, now the Rec Deck! This is a project not to miss!


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

Thanks, guys! Hopefully these pics will be of help as a reference of some sort for others working on interiors of this kit. To be honest, I took my time on the interiors so I could see how others tackled the azteking on the outside.  

Garbaron - I didn't include any figures in the rec deck, as it is not to scale with the rest of the ship. The figures would definitely tip the casual viewer off to that fact. I'm sure someone will figure out how to make a rec deck in scale with the kit, but I wasn't able to. In fact, there's just barely enough room left heightwise to light the rec deck from above. 

I have created a bunch of unique decals in working on these areas. If anyone's interested, I'd be happy to make them available for free. Just send me a PM if you want a copy of them.

I do have a favor to ask - could someone point me to an online (and free) place where I could store my photos? I've used up my 10MB limit and I'd like to keep posting pics as I move along!


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## omnimodel (Oct 9, 2004)

I use Photobucket for my auction pics. It doesn't have a huge storage capacity, but it's free.

BTW-- Awesome work!


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## Four Mad Men (Jan 26, 2004)

Krako,

I'd be honored to host your pictures for you. I've got tons of space and bandwith. Just let me know.

Thnx,
4MM


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## Nova Designs (Oct 10, 2000)

Wow, that just blows me away! Fantastic job!


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

Are you kidding, Four Mad Men? I'd be honored to have my pictures on your site!


You got yourself a deal. Thank you!!!


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## Four Mad Men (Jan 26, 2004)

No sweat, I sent you a PM to work out the details.


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## AmericanCitizen (Sep 15, 2005)

I cannot believe the amount of accuracy I'm seeing here -- I can't even think of an adjective to describe it. We're talking major motion picture Hollywood model quality here, if not better.


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## GLU Sniffah (Apr 15, 2005)

_" What kind of recreation does the crew of your vessel enjoy? "_

Awesome...simply awesome work. I don't think it gets much better than this, folks...


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

Okay, a few final pics as I've finished up on all the interiors and am moving on to the exterior stuff.

I'm using one of Han Erickson's armatures which calls for modifying the arboretum to accomodate the armature pole. After trying to cut out a matching hole in the arboretum ceiling and have it shatter, I realized I might be better off with a scratchbuilt ceiling.

Ceiling 

The armature pole would be pretty noticable in the arboretum...

Pole 

So I created a wall insert to mask the pole.

Pic 1 
Pic 2 
Pic 3 

When all the pieces are added, no one will ever know there's an armature pole running through the arboretum. Except you guys. 

You won't tell, will you?

Final Pic


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## Nova Designs (Oct 10, 2000)

Ah good idea! That fits right in.


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## frontline (May 4, 2005)

Krako, thanks for showing me what you did. Im waiting on my armature to come in as we sepak and was wondering what sort of impact the armature would have on that area. Nifty solution and if you dont mind, Im going to copy it as best I can. But how did you get the styrene to wrap around the rod? Did you score it so that it would wrap around?


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

I used thin styrene stock and took my sweet time slowly bending it to the proper curve. I drilled the hole for the armature a little wider than the 1/2" that is called for in the directions in order to accomodate the styrene stock. I cut out a couple of "doors" and then put another piece of thin styrene stock behind those cutouts, again bending slowly to get the desired shape. A healthy dose of glue was applied to bond the wall insert to the arboretum. Oh, I also used my dremel to cut a corresponding hole in the side wall of the arboretum, so that the wall insert sides could extend out straight.


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## edwhitefire (Jan 23, 2004)

Krako,
You're doing a MAJOR fantastic job! Don't worry about the Rec deck not fitting properly, Paraflop never did care about scale or how things would really work. When I drew the Enterprise-D decks I was forced to include their sets into the design, which meant I had to hammer, saw, twist, and (expletive deleted) the 10-Forward lounge into a space that it was never meant to be in. It eventually did fit, but it wasn't pretty, nor do I think, will people actually fit in it height-wise. But they dictated what HAD to be there...


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## Garbaron (Apr 23, 2004)

Uhmm I do not want to hijack your threat Krako…. But I thought if I show some interior pic I might as well use your threat.

It aint much yet, as I stated before am just beginning work on the hangar bay. I drilled all the control room windows and door ways, as well as enlarged the work bee garages so they can accommodate a work bee each. The ladder is from L’Arsenal and I also go the little guys to inhabit the bay, VIP lounge and botanical garden at a later time. I got me some six sided styrene rod to create cargo crates as can bees seen in TNG (I know… but I can’t help it, I always liked them), there will be some cargo barrels later too. 

The picture show an early arrangement of the bay detailing items. I also want to create the cargo containers see in TMP standing at the cargo level floor and a work bee cargo train leaving the cargo section or standing by at an yet to be build intermediate level (you do know that the cargo area can be separated to a low and upper level do you?).

There will be a red light section where shuttle maintenance is located and possibly the second ST V shuttle waiting for inspection…..

Well that’s how it is right now and what I plan to do… hope you get the idea from the picture. 


Cheers

Thorsten


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

Oh man, that is gonna be sweet, Garbaron! I love those cargo crates! Very, very, very cool! I can't wait to see some more pics! Feel free to use this thread for interiors. I think it would be cool if everyone used it that way!

edwhitefire, it's a big compliment to get a compliment from you. Thanks!


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## Garbaron (Apr 23, 2004)

Thanks my friend… I wish I had more to show right now, but there sure will be more as soon as I have time to work on it. And yeah I think it would be great if we would use THIS threat to show off our interior sets. Would be a wonderful reference for others to get inspiration on how to attack these. 

So come on guys, lets see what you’ve got!


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## Scorpitat (Oct 7, 2004)

I added some pics of my start on my shuttlebay awhile back. Crude start, but I get more inspiration from others as it progresses. I planned to do the raised platform for a shuttle from the start, and may even have a shuttle lifting off out of the fantail section when I complete the kit.The pics can be seen by clicking the "My Gallery" link under my name.

I started the viewing deck that's at the back of the saucer section, and will add some pics of that soon. I kinda hop back and forth between that, and the shuttlebay deck. I want to start the arboretum soon, but I need to track down some figures that are the right scale, and some miniature trees I can whittle down for replacing the plastic ones. I'll have to go raid the local train/hobbyshop soon. LOL!

Hope ya like my pics, and please, consider it as a "work in progress".

Boldly GO!
Scorp.


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

Nice work, Scorpitat!


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## ArthurPendragon (Jan 4, 2004)

Just to let you all know.... I'm working on new 1/350 Travelpod, Workbees and Cargo Containers. Detailed decals will make the surface details.

It's 60% done. Soon to be released by DLM.

Stay tuned !


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## Opus Penguin (Apr 19, 2004)

ArthurPendragon said:


> Just to let you all know.... I'm working on new 1/350 Travelpod, Workbees and Cargo Containers. Detailed decals will double the surface details.
> 
> It's 60% done. Soon to be released by DLM.
> 
> Stay tuned !



Whoo Hooo! I was wondering how I was going to recreate the cargo containers!


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

Arthur - 

Will your shuttlepods be clear? Two pieces like the kit shuttlepods, or one piece? Hollow or solid? Will your workerbees have the arm attachments like in the movie?

Got any pictures (above and beyond the diagram posted on starshipmodeler)?


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## ArthurPendragon (Jan 4, 2004)

Krako said:


> Arthur -
> 
> Will your shuttlepods be clear? Two pieces like the kit shuttlepods, or one piece? Hollow or solid? Will your workerbees have the arm attachments like in the movie?
> 
> Got any pictures (above and beyond the diagram posted on starshipmodeler)?


Well... Don can cast the shuttlepods clear, but It will be in ONE piece, solid (it's too small). Just a hint... KIRK AND SCOTT WILL BE VISIBLE AT THE COCKPIT WINDOW decal !!!

The arms for the workbees would be too thin to be cast in any medium (except, perhaps, photoecht). Anyway, I believe anyone can make it with some thin styrene.

No pictures yet.


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## Raist3001 (Oct 23, 2003)

Matt,

I was set against including any shuttlebay in my build. However, one look thru this thread convinced and inspired me to change my mind. I can not believe the amount of detail you achieved in your shuttle bay. Absolutely fantastic! I believe that there is plenty of room to share the moniker....Ulitmate Refit  (although I would not presume to classify mine as such.)

Thanks Matt


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## vaderknight (Nov 8, 2005)

Raist3001 said:


> Matt,
> 
> I was set against including any shuttlebay in my build. However, one look thru this thread convinced and inspired me to change my mind. I can not believe the amount of detail you achieved in your shuttle bay. Absolutely fantastic! I believe that there is plenty of room to share the moniker....Ulitmate Refit  (although I would not presume to classify mine as such.)
> 
> Thanks Matt


Hope you don't mind, Raist3001, but I bookmarked your Refit build gallery on my PC. I've seen your pics (obviously :freak: ), and I can't wait to see your shuttlebay pics. Your build is soooooooo much better than mine is right now.

BTW...how soon until DLM has them ready to sell?


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## vaderknight (Nov 8, 2005)

Almost forgot...

Krako, excellent job!!!


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

I agree, Raist has done an excellent job so far! In fact, his aztek solution is the one I'll be using. I can't wait to see what he does next!


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## Raist3001 (Oct 23, 2003)

vaderknight said:


> Hope you don't mind, Raist3001, but I bookmarked your Refit build gallery on my PC. I've seen your pics (obviously :freak: ), and I can't wait to see your shuttlebay pics. Your build is soooooooo much better than mine is right now.


No problem Vader. I am flattered that you did. My shuttle bay is nothing special. I am not planning on detailing it as much as Krako (fantastic Job) and others have done.


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## marc111 (Nov 10, 2005)

Krako, You inspired me with your Rec Deck, but as I looked at the picture, it kept bugging me that the perspective and size were off compared to the movie, so.....

1) Yes I know the real set doesn't fit in the hull, but I asked myself how close could I come to getting it to fit and still look right.
2) I optically scaled the viwescreen wall from the DVD footage. 
3) I measured and scaled the window wall based on the actual model hull window slots.
4) I calculated how much space would be needed for 400 to 500 people to stand in. (Thats how many were in the scene.)
5) I started with the rec deck in "Mr Scott's Guide to the Enterprise and asked what needed to change to match things up. The DVD footage makes the side walls look more like they are parallel to each other rather than the wedge shape in the guide drawing so I decided to try that.
6) First I scaled the drawing to match the window slots. When you do this the viewscreen wall and floor area are slightly too small.
7) Next I upscaled the floor area and side walls and made the side walls run parallel to each other. This made the floor area correct, scaled all of the seats up to a size that matches the model officers lounge and kept a proper look and fit when facing the windows.
8) Things looked good except the size of the turboshafts and the viewscreen were still a little too small. So I upscaled them slightly to match the optical scaling which checked against Mr. Scotts guide for that wall.
9) Finally I composited this all together as a complete floor plan. Note it still has an outer wedge shape to match into the ship. At this point the only thing off from the set will be the total ceiling heigth and I can live with that.

I am going to build one up this way and I thought it might help others so here is the link to the JPG of the floor plan which is also pasted below. 

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f218/marc_david/Rec%20Deck/PICT0177.jpg

Please note that it is marked for proper scaling. The radial lines at the outer window edges will measure 0.92 inches at the hull, that is a straight line measurement between the spots where the lines meet the hull. This is the window measurement of the model.

Hope this helps,
Mark


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

That looks great! I can't wait to see your progress pics on this!

One of the issues I found with putting a real space behind those windows, was that the saucer bottom begins to slant up after about only 10mm or so (I've forgotten the exact measurements). That's why I decided to make mine a 3-D backdrop of sorts and not a faithful representation of the rec deck. 

Again, very cool work! Keep us posted with new pics!!!


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## Garbaron (Apr 23, 2004)

Hey guys I am playing around with the lighting of the hangar bay right now.
And I sort of have settled to this one….

What do you guys think?

The control room windows will also be back lit. Not sure yet if red or white. 
The workbee garages will have a red overhead light so the garage it self will be illuminated red, just like Andy Probert depicted in his mat paintings.


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## The Trekmodeler (Jul 21, 2005)

That's great! Interesting, How do you plan on going about lighting up the workbee garages?


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## Garbaron (Apr 23, 2004)

THATS something I still need to figure out!
Right now I plan to build a littel light box for the controll romm windows and hope it will give enough spare light for the garage as well... will see how it turns out.


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

Very nice. Can spill from the secondary hull interior light up the workbee garages if you just open up their backsides?


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

Another challenge for the Green Hornet:
Krako, have I mentioned before that I am in awe of your work?
Have you ever seen the photo of Thomas Models 1/550 bridge in one of his models? I bring this up only because I realize that there IS one other interior area of the E that you could detail (and it's easily accessed for viewing just by lifting off the bridge dome). Not that I have any ulterior motive like I so enjoy seeing your work that I re-visit your gallery every 2nd day. Besides, what are you going to do with all of those left-over L'Arsenal figures?


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## cinc2020 (May 10, 2004)

I drilled holes in the workbee garage overhangs. The light bleeding through seems to work fine, actually. You can also route light into those spaces using fiber optics, of course.


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

Starseeker, I believe you aim to push me over the edge - into the abyss of refit interior madness!  

Garbaron - Your hangar is looking great! I took another approach on the workerbee garages - I know my hangar certainly isn't 100% accurate, but I think those workerbees are supposed to fit into octagonal holes - look really close at the matte painting...

http://probertdesigns.com/Folder_DESIGN/CargoBay-6.html

I hollowed out those areas and built a facade for each workerbee garage area - I also hollowed out an area in the original wall for light to shine in from outside. 

http://www.fourmadmen.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-977
http://www.fourmadmen.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-964

Now, granted - Those octagonal areas are supposed to glow red and I made mine glow blue AND there are also supposed to be little attachment arms for each workerbee. I figured I could fudge a little on those...


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## Garbaron (Apr 23, 2004)

Yeah I know they are supposed to sit in those octagonal holes, but I figured if viewed from the bay door you won’t really notice if they sit in these so I just enlarged the existing bays so the workbee fits in. 

Oh and I am staying with the lighting pattern I have shown. The port side and rear wall is finished now I only need to do the starboard side and then I can prime the cargo bay. 

Look for an update in … well when its there


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

I can tell that, no matter how inspiring for model-making it might be, discovering this group is going to be no good at all for either my eyesight or my sanity, but I just ordered my L'Arsenal figures and railings. Just thought I'd mention that L'Arsenal seems to have very recently introduced a new set of 1/350 "fine" ship railings, AC 350 49.


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

You'll love those little L'Arsenal guys.


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

rbaron wrote (on the "other" group: "Anyway… since I opted to not build a new garage with octagonal openings that fit to the bee contours and went along with garage boxes instead… there won’t be any pressure seals on my bee garages Razz Maybe I’ll try to do w purplish glow to simulate the forcefield? Clear sheet styrene with a hint of purple sprayed on and illuminated form the side might do the trick? It also would create a dust protection since the bay would not be “open”… hmmm…I have to do some tests on that."
I was thinking about suspending a worker bee cargo train through a clear plastic window between the bay and the cargo area. You could suspend a shuttle etc through the force field just as easily. Love the idea of the force field sealing the shuttle bay from dust, etc.


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## Garbaron (Apr 23, 2004)

I’ll definitely give the „force field“ a try.

Right now I am getting the hangar pieces ready to be primed. Also did a test with the engineering hull and found that I need to adjust some of the mounting poles because of the lighting rods I have installed. Hopefully I’ll get it done this week and can show you some better pictures next weekend. 


Ohh and I had a nice conversation with Andrew Probert and he too likes my lighting approach with the middle section lit in red. Actually he said for landing operations the entire bay (flight deck and maintenance level) should be lit in red so the bright white light won’t blind the shuttle pilot when doing a visual approach. But all in red seamed kind of too much to me. 

Well anyway I’ll post my progress as soon there is something new to show.


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

Very cool! So, both of our lighting schemes for the hangar deck could be 'correct' then...


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

I've finally been inspired enough to start digging through my PL E kits and sorting out the parts I need to begin the interiors. As I was looking at the tiny shuttles, etc, I remembered (what I thought was) one of my very best modelling tips (along with using zimmerlit (sp?) techniques for replicating space shuttle tiles/insulation, neither of which Fine Scale Modeller thought was good enough to share with readers): Lee Valley Tools sells very small rare earth magnets, which I used throughout my 1/144 Revell/Intermountain/Realspace/New Ware ISS bash to connect removable components (where are Sternbach's damn ISS decals???), like Soyuz, cargo ferries, and interchangable modules. The 1/4" dia magents with the 3/8" cups are the exact size needed for the ISS/Mir docking adapters. The smallest diameter is the 99K38.00 rare-earth rod magnet, at 1/8" diameter and 1/8" long. They're sold in a pack of 10 for $2.90Can. You can't believe the strength of these little suckers. They would be great for anyone who wanted to bury magnets in shuttles and pods and docking ports for interchangable docking options, esp the 1/8 inside the pod and the 1/4 inside the port.


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## Garbaron (Apr 23, 2004)

Okay guys….

I think I have found my final set up of items for the hangar/maintenance/cargo bay.
TMP cargo crates are still in production and not shown here…I just did not hit the shape to my liking up to now. Just imagine some sitting at the cargo level ok? 

As you can see I added the port maintenance shuttle elevator. 
It’s a straight forward build: 

1 mm sheet styrene for the platform
Two pieces of 5mm styrene tube as hydraulic pylons cut to appropriate heights. 
A smaller piece of 1 mm sheet styrene is glued underneath the elevator platform for stability.

The turbo lift shaft is also a scratch build using the 5 mm styrene tube as basis. The individual sections are made of 1 mm styrene strip. Four strip wrapped around horizontally form the three levels. Then 4 mm long pieces are placed at equal distances to form the vertical patterns. Top coverage is that from the original pieces. The tube is semi transparent and will show a lighted appearance created by the cargo bays overhead lights. No pictures of that yet, I want to build the second turbo shaft first…took me three hours to build just this one!! 

I did this because I did not like the turbo shafts that come with the kit. Those clear pieces are horrible! One was bending like a banana and the vertical divisions are not equally distributed. Besides it was a pain in the ass to try to paint these things. 

The two bay walls, rear wall and ceiling are finished and ready to be primed. Haven’t got enough time left to do it now cos I have to go to work pretty soon. Maybe I can do that tomorrow or on Thursday.

Enjoy!


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

Looking good! :thumbsup:


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## cinc2020 (May 10, 2004)

Looks good!

I hope to resume my Refit this week. You guys have got me re-inspired, if that makes any sense. I've been derailed by other projects and my job, and I'm still waiting on my Refit circuits from a colleague.

Keep going!


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

Looks great!


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## Flux Chiller (May 2, 2005)

some outstanding work there lads, thanks very much for posting these updates


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

Gorgeous work, Garbaron! I esp like your turboshaft. On the landing deck, on the wall behind your six-sided containers, on the kit wall there are 6 small squares molded. In Andy Probert's matt, they're exactly the right height and size for windows on this level. Do you think they could be?
(Cool - I accidentally double-clicked on your photo and a moving magnifying screen popped up!)
But you've captured the busy look perfectly. I bet when it's painted you'll be able to claim any photos are of a studio filming minature.


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## cinc2020 (May 10, 2004)

This is a great thread, since it keeps the Refit alive. I was worried that interest was already waning...

The discussion has motivated me to start posting progress pics of my models on my website, which I hesitated to do before for some reason. I really appreciate it when others post progress pics, so it made sense to do the same. Progress pics of my Refit will be posted here: http://www.philsmith.us/PhilSmith10.html.

I look forward to what others come up with - so far, I'm very impressed, and thanks to all for motivating me to get back to the kit


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## marc111 (Nov 10, 2005)

Really looking nice Gabaron. Thanks for the construction details. I like seeing someone use the ST5 shuttles. Although I like Mr. Proberts work, he should never have used the transport section of the vulcan shuttle as an Enterprise shuttle design. It is totally at odds to all of the other shuttle designs both before and since. I am scratch building some TOS shuttles to put in the bay together with the ST 5 versions. Pics soon I hope.

Mark


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## Garbaron (Apr 23, 2004)

Thanks for the feedback.

@ Starseeker:

You mean these grey details close tot he bay doors?
http://probertdesigns.com/Folder_DESIGN/CargoBay-6.html

I don’t think those are windows. Maybe blow away panels with life suits or something behind it? Or just maintenance storage compartments? Who knows…oh Right Andy would know. I’ll ask him as soon as I get some more progress on the hangar bay. I promised to not bother him too much. 


@ Cinc2020:

I remember you hangar bay! Love the “aircraft carrier” look you try to capture. And I LOVE your arboretum! Hope mine will turn out like this!

Oh and a little side note, your crew will never be bale to leave the turbo shaft on the upper cargo level! http://www.philsmith.us/HangarCloseup1.jpg I made the same mistake at first and fixed it later. 

@ marc111

Yeah I have same feelings towards the TMP shuttle. I find it kind of odd that Starfleet would use the same shuttle design the Vulcan use for their warp shuttles. The STV shuttle is much more in accordance with what went before (looks like an evolution form the TOS shuttle) and what came after. I will also build the second STV shuttle, since I may put it onto the shuttle lift instead of the travel pod. Some how I see no real reason why a travel pod would be sitting at the flight deck. I mean they dock outside at the docking ports stay there until someone else uses them or the ship leaves (to my thinking travel pods are not part of Enterprises shuttle/workbee squadron).


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## cinc2020 (May 10, 2004)

Gabaron,

You're quite right - oh well. Thanks for keeping an eye out for detail (for me, that's really important). Anyway, the ship was commissioned by the government, and they found the lowest bidder to put in the railings - some low-end company from Vulcan (Logical Safety Impliments and Hardare, Inc.).

Thankfully, you really can't see anything once the bay is buttoned up. There are a few things I would change if I did it again. Maybe in the future...


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

I think it makes sense that that piece of railing would be a gate that opens and closes to allow access to the turbolift. You have depicted it as shut. 

I also depicted mine as shut, as I didn't think about it either until my hangar deck was all buttoned up.


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

On the sj of railings, is it an optical delusion of mine, or don't most of the railings angle out from the walkways? 
Also, Probert's drawings show walkways only from the top level of the turboshaft. Mike Minor's (on Probert's site) show walkways from both upper levels, which makes more sense.


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

Yes, they do angle out. If you get the MMI PE set, you'll be able to bend the railing 150 degrees from the part that is to be glued to the side edge of the platform ... to make the railing angle outwards and 30 degrees to vertical. 
(But you'll need a razor blade with the knife edge on only one side, basically)

On the second point, I believe that Mr. Probert's railing-less design stems from the flexible nature of the cargo area, where holds can slide out and create new levels.


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## Garbaron (Apr 23, 2004)

Krako said:


> I think it makes sense that that piece of railing would be a gate that opens and closes to allow access to the turbolift. You have depicted it as shut.
> 
> I also depicted mine as shut, as I didn't think about it either until my hangar deck was all buttoned up.


I don’t remember Kirk needing to open a gate to get into the turbo lift after the travel pod tour! 

Nope? Yes? Nope!!! 

See…..


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

Drats... Foiled again.


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

Garbaron, if you don't like the TMP shuttle in your PL kit, you can always use it as the Surak for the 1/570 Ertl kit, as it's almost exactly the right size. I just scratched an (as-yet undetailed) 1/350 Surak, and while it does fit into the 1/350 landing bay, it clears the wide-open bay portal by not much more than the thickness of a sheet of paper on either side. 
I do like the combination of the STV shuttle and the smaller Surak-like shuttle in the hangar bay, tho. Different shapes, more complexity to the eye.


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

Staring insanely squinty eyed at Probert's Matte 2, I'm 99% sure that there is a walkway from the middle level of the cargo turboshafts, but that it doesn't have rails. The blue colored frames under the catwalks on either side of the floor level of the cargo bay could be the framework for/and the sliding floor that would make up a 2nd level in the bay once the lower was filled. There also appears to be a notch for the sliding floor above the far cargo containers. As suggested previously, railings on the 2nd level of the turbo shaft walkway would get in the way of cargo operations? But it makes sense that there would be a walkway leading from the turboshaft to the lifeboat station entrance. 
Also, for detail freaks with leftover seated L'Arsenal figures, note on the lower left what appears to be a work bee w/o a body.


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## Garbaron (Apr 23, 2004)

A little update on my progress.

Just finished painting the workbees and cargo crates. One bee is missing since I want to try to build a cargo train. 

The bay was primed yesterday and I had to sand and fix a few minor things. You can also see the double frame at the maintenance area. I had to build up a bit of support at the ceiling to hold these in place or they would drop due to gravity.

More as it comes…


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

G: That is beautiful!


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## cinc2020 (May 10, 2004)

Lookin' good. I like the little added details. The workbees are excellent.


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## Nova Designs (Oct 10, 2000)

Hey, nice job on those bees! :thumbsup:


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## marc111 (Nov 10, 2005)

Nice Work Gabaron. Thought you all might like to see some of my current efforts.
First, As I said I do not like the thought of a Surak transport pod as a shuttlecraft. So I scratch built some TOS shuttles to go in the bay with the STV shuttles. No large organizations obsoletes somethng like a shuttle craft in 5 years. That said here are a couple of pictures of the two together. Painting and detailing yet to come.



















I think they should look nice in the bay together.

*By the way, my images are stored on photobucket. How do you insert a thumbnail instead of the full image into the post?*

On a related topic I finally finished detailing the Arboretum. My wife has a degree in Landscaping and she did not have kind words to say about the layout in the original plastic. Sooo... For an illusion of greater space I put outdoor murals on the walls. I completely relaid out the paths and landscape. I rerouted and deepened the stream and pond effect and created my own benches. The layout would allow for more hide-away seating for privacy as well as offering more walking trail. I am also trying out a slightly arched roof for a better height illusion and doing a custom cloud and sky decal to cover the whole ceiling. If you are in a recreation of outdoors I cannot see where you would ruin it with piping and stuff on the ceiling that you could conceal. (re kit clear plastic part)

Some notes for other builders. 
1) Always paint on a dirt color before laying in the green ground cover, otherwise the white shows through.
2) Never, never, never put in that lichen green ground cover before adding the epoxy fill for water. That lichen stuff acts as the perfect wick for any liquid glue. I had to tear up a bunch of done landscape and do it over. A pain.
3) 1:350 is a really small scale I have been using a 20 power stereo microscope for some of this detailing.

*Question: How have you all provided the overhead lighting?? Light panel? An array of small LED's? A couple of big LED's???*

Here are a couple of the finished Arboretum pictures. The complete build sequence can be found through this link. Just look in the proper sub-album.

http://photobucket.com/albums/f218/marc_david/?sc=1





























Mark


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## Garbaron (Apr 23, 2004)

One just has to LOVE your TOS shuttles!


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## marc111 (Nov 10, 2005)

One more of the shuttles in the bay for the correct scale effect.










Mark

Back to scratch building the Rec Deck (I hate insides that are bigger than outsides!)


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

Marc111: I'd post something about your arboretum but I can't find one of those cutsey smiley faces with its mouth hanging open in amazement. But the more I look at it, the less impressed I am. Obviously, you and your wife and your team of landscapers and horticulturalists are all really 1/350 scale yourselves. So it's really not fair to compare your work with that of 1/1 scale people, not fair at all...


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## marc111 (Nov 10, 2005)

Thanks for the reply Starseeker. I am confused though. I can't figure out if you are complementing me or suggesting I should do it over. If its the "do it over case" what are you suggesting I could improve? I'll admit I wish the benches had come out slightly better.
Mark


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## cinc2020 (May 10, 2004)

I think the garden looks fine. It has an autumn look to it, which is unique. Why not?


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

No, I'm trying to compliment you. Lord, man, looking at that garden, I can almost feel myself walking in it. I love the idea of the rocks, too, for a relaxing scramble after a long shift. It's brilliant. I just can't imagine how anyone larger than 1/350 scale could have created such detail.


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## marc111 (Nov 10, 2005)

Thanks Starseeker. I appreciate it. It took several weeks to get put together. Now I just have to light it properly. I am looking forward to seeing your shuttlebay pictures as I have not started mine yet beyond building the shuttles. It sometimes seems a shame to button up all of these details. I can understand the idea of doing both inside and outside versions.
Regards,
Mark


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

Marc111: By the way, I really appreciate your work on the 1/350 scale rec deck design. My big question there, tho, is, any thoughts on how to make that thing fit into the saucer? Even if you thin the thick plastic of the bottom 1/2 of the saucer to paper thinness, there's still so little space left. 
An aside: while searching for details of the cargo bay, came across a bit of history of the garden of E. According to Andy Probert (Starlog March 1980), the 12' high arboretum windows were originally the site of the rec deck. The art director wanted the rec deck to face aft, tho. While the rec deck was moved a couple more times, Mr. Probert still wanted to keep the large windows. They became the "location of a large botanical garden that would now have the dual purpose of research and recreation. That idea was immediately shot down... They suggested we turn it into a cocktail lounge...so we built a minature cocktail lounge interior. When Doug came onto the picture...he reviewed some of my earlier designs and wanted us to turn it back into a botanical garden". 
A cocktail lounge???


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## 1701ALover (Apr 29, 2004)

starseeker said:


> A cocktail lounge???


I guess Roddenberry got his wish with Ten Forward on TNG.


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## marc111 (Nov 10, 2005)

starseeker said:


> Marc111: By the way, I really appreciate your work on the 1/350 scale rec deck design. My big question there, tho, is, any thoughts on how to make that thing fit into the saucer? Even if you thin the thick plastic of the bottom 1/2 of the saucer to paper thinness, there's still so little space left.


Yes its the classic tardis problem. I have had to alter that original plan to make it fit. The rear height as the bottom of the saucer swells upward is the problem. I have found that I had to compress the inwards direction from the windows a bit more and reduce the height of the rear wall to get things to fit. The rear wall will only be .42 in. tall. I have the floor done and I am working up the walls now. I will post some pics as soon as I am sure it is all fitting. It is a balancing act on getting the correct look while getting it to fit. For example on the side walls I had to eliminate the highest bent wall section because it won't fit into the hull. I also had to compress the main orange area a little. Hopefully PICs soon.

Mark


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## Garbaron (Apr 23, 2004)

Hey guys,

I made some progress on the hangar bay.
All parts have their color now. 

Landing Bay walls are white mixed with (Revel color 05) about 5ml stone grey (Revel color 75). Maintenance and cargo area are painted stone grey mixed with about 5-8 ml white. The bay floor is currently just tank grey (Revel color 78) 

But somehow I don’t like the one colored bay floor. Form the mat paintings at Andy’s site I am not entirely sure if it is one or two or even three colored. I think I will break up that uniform grey into two shades. Flight deck will remain tank grey while maintenance and cargo level get a lighter grey color...maybe dust or gunship grey…. not sure yet. But I have to wait untill the color is complete cured to make the changes. 

Anyway, when the paint was sufficiently dried I set up the lighting system to see if I got the colors too dark and the bay would become a black hole. Well… What can I say I am an impatiend person when it comes to such things 

BUT..... I LOVE the way it turned out! It looks just right.

What do you say?

BTW you can also see the double frame work I created for the maintenance section. I had to use an H profile at the ceiling to hold the frame in place since the thin styrene pieces I used to create the double frame started to bend downwards.  

Oh and unfortunately I had to remove all the railings cos they had accumulated too much color and looked out of scale. But I have enough left to rebuild the railings at the upper cargo and maintenance level once I have finished detail painting on the bay walls. Perhaps I should have done it this way from the beginning? Well one never stops to learn something new.


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## Flux Chiller (May 2, 2005)

It's lit up really nicely Torsten. Good work. Floor looks quite dark but I think you will find that some decals will lift it.


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

Looks great!


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

Very nice. Clean. Good scale impression. :thumbsup: 

I like the different lighting on the midsection there. It seems to make sense (ergonomically?) to paint the three sections in different colours to make quick orientation easier for the crew.

But then again, I get all turned around in galley kitchens ...


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## Garbaron (Apr 23, 2004)

Thanks everyone. 

I contacted Andrew Probert to get to know if the bay floor also has different colors...lets see what he'll say...




Flux Chiller said:


> It's lit up really nicely Torsten. Good work. Floor looks quite dark but I think you will find that some decals will lift it.


Yeah I know its dark, but it has to be. Since it has to match the color of the dark ring you can see when the bay doors are closed (see attached picture). And the color I used is the exact same color I used for the ERTL Refit which looks like a perfect match to me.


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## Raist3001 (Oct 23, 2003)

Very nice work Garbaron. Love the raised elevator


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## The Trekmodeler (Jul 21, 2005)

That interior looks very real. Nice work!


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## Flux Chiller (May 2, 2005)

Garbaron said:


> Yeah I know its dark, but it has to be..


Ok, I see what you mean Thorsten. I thought that dark ring finished at the track edge of the door and then there was a lighter colour for the landing deck...there is no definitive view in the STTMP/ST2 approach shot as the angle is tricky, but what you are saying makes perfect sense. I see you have filled in the track line and carried the colour across. Nicely done.

Myself, I have the doors closed as my shuttlebay is replaced with lead weights (I wasn't convinced by the interior I had made - it looked disappointing!) - my Ent is designed to sit unsupported on a special little stand (a bit like the Excelsior model), however I am going to purchase the replacement door from DLM, which I guess means I will have to cover up the gap as well. Will it show with the DLM part? Thanks, Col


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## Garbaron (Apr 23, 2004)

Yeah the „track line“ will show when you use the DLM replacement. 
Not much but still visible.


Andrew did not answer yet, but I will make a two colored bay floor anyway. As I said I just don’t like the flooring to be in one color only. Besides I got a picture from Andrew that shows that the flight deck is separated in to two colors too. There is a slightly lighter grey at the bay door region extending to the edge of the fantail, while the flight deck it self has the color I used. 

In essence the reversal of what Krako did with his flight deck:
http://www.fourmadmen.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=41&pos=25 


Unfortunately I can NOT share that particular picture with you since it is a work in progress from Andrew Probert and he specifically asked me to NOT post it anywhere until he did. So you guys have to trust me on that.

Regarding closed bay door.. mine will be a swappable piece since I do not want the bay doors to be open all the time. The DLM bay door of course will portrait the closed status while I use the original part to create the open look for the bay doors by using the outer three sections at of the original part. These two pieces will be glued to transparent styrene sheet cut to shape to the bay opening. The clear part will have a slight violet touch to it by this resembling the force field that holds the air at bay (also provides some dust protection when the bay is open to the observer)


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## Flux Chiller (May 2, 2005)

Garbaron said:


> Yeah the „track line“ will show when you use the DLM replacement.
> Not much but still visible.


Ok, thanks a lot. 
So there is a second forcefield at the doors as well? I thought the reason for the soft dock areas on the workbees was because that area would remain at vacuum? I imagine there are several modes of operation though


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## Lloyd Collins (Sep 25, 2004)

Garbaron,
Your deck is looking really good. The lights are just right.

Marc111,
Beautiful TOS shuttles. Got me drooling again!


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

Krako, G, Raist:
Please post some progress. I'm getting so burned out, as one fix leads to another leads to another endlessly, I need something to keep me going. Love to see what you're doing and/or light at the end of the tunnel.
J


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## Garbaron (Apr 23, 2004)

Sorry my friend there is not much progress on my side.
I had to work the past couple of days and did not have enough time to advance my hangar bay. I did how ever change the bay floor color scheme to a two tone scheme and also finished decaling on the cargo bay rear wall. But all this is not worth taking a photo to post. Once the port bay wall is finished I’ll make a set up of the interior pieces and shoot a picture.


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

starseeker - I hear ya - I'm in a slump as well. However, I think I'll have my docking ports finished today. I'll post pics today, if I get a chance...


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## Garbaron (Apr 23, 2004)

A little update on you guys who need some inspiration to keep going on your own PL Refits 

As you can see I finished one of the ST V shuttles. It turned out pretty nice but was a pain in the butt to detail. I mean you all know there isn’t much detail on this shuttles and in this tiny scale it looks extremely toyisch if you do not try to add some detail here and there like the impulse engine intakes, RC thrusters etc. The tiny decals are also hard to position. Especially the rear and front numbering… those little buggers had a habit to stick to fine placer I used.

Port side decals are in place and I finalised the catwalk overhead lights so they get a blue touch. Workbee garage red overhead lights are also in place. The railings are still missing but not for long  

Oh and at the attached pictures you can also see the new color scheme for the bay flooring as depicted in the picture I got from Andrew Probert. A note on this. I contacted Andrew and asked for the bay flooring colors specifically if it was one color or two. He said the floor should be a light grey overall only the shuttle lifts have a dark grey similar to the one used on today’s aircraft carriers. However this statement contradicts what you can see on the mentioned picture (I am forbidden to show it to you until Andrew posts it at his site). I wrote a second mail point this out to him. What ever his answer will be I’ll keep the color scheme the bay floor has now…to me it look right. Call it an artists freedom if you will


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## JadesDarkHeart (Dec 8, 2003)

Man is there not just a ton to do on this model, jeez. It is like walking through the desert with one canteen. 

I started a new job a few weeks ago so I had to halt work on my refit. I just got a commission to build one so now I have a part time job. I am actually looking forward to starting over and not making the same mistakes I made on mine.

On mine I finished all the lighting but due to pre-painting I had horrible gap problems in the secondary hull. Aves fixed this but I am having to re-scribe allot of lines and that is a pain. I have actually been avoiding it.

The commission will be started tonight. I am forgoing the damn clear window inserts and filling the windows with clear resin instead this time. Will take longer but I think in the end it will look much better. Plus I already had one set of windows on mine fall into the model GRRRRRRRRR.

Keep the faith guys

Greg



Krako said:


> starseeker - I hear ya - I'm in a slump as well. However, I think I'll have my docking ports finished today. I'll post pics today, if I get a chance...


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## cinc2020 (May 10, 2004)

Alright you guys. You caused me to toss out my old hangar bay and craft another (thank the gods I bought two PL Refit kits). Lots of good work here forced me to reconsider my hangar.

My hangar was too dark and too messy. I also hate those elevator shafts, and the floor markings were lame.

So, I built a new one, painted entirely in white, with a dark gray deck. The scheme copies the style used on an aircraft carrier hangar deck. Then, I added a bunch of greeblies to the walls and ceiling, and exposed more of the lighting. The elevator shafts were scratchbuilt and will glow blue.

Once I finish the workbees tonight, I will post pictures. Stay tuned - I'm much, much happier with how this hangar came out...

Gabaron - excellent work there, and thanks for keeping our noses to the grindstone


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

Bless you, Garbaron! That is truly inspiring and I needed to see it badly. That is one gorgeous bay you have coming along, a real model within a model. As much as I'm impressed by the detailing on your shuttle (it looks more like like a photo of someone's nicely detailed 1/72 scale shuttle!), what I'm really impressed by is your workbee. I have just shaped my first workbee and its overall dimensions are 3/8 x 1/8 x 1/8. How did you ever get those markings on something that tiny??? I can barely see the thing. Beautiful work. 
PS: I could be wrong about this, but the 6 sided door doesn't seem to open to show the diamond shape. From what I can see, the 2 sliding doors only go deep enough into their pockets to form a rectangular shape, with some of the door showing at either side??


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

PPS: Correction - 1/8 x 1/8 x 3/10". And at least I thought that was tiny, but my l'Arsenal figures arrived yesterday and even tho you know they're going to be small, nothing really prepares you for the shock of seeing just how tiny they really are. A mystery of the universe will always be how they manage to de-mold anything that fragile. Another mystery of the universe will always be how Krako, needle tip or whatever, managed to paint them.


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## Garbaron (Apr 23, 2004)

Hehe all you need to do the workbee is a steady hand, lots of time and above all …patience!
A few tricks here and there on how to get the little windows shaped correctly is useful too   

Regarding the diamond door…yeah you are right it keeps a rectangular shape when the door is open. Somehow I over locked that…I see if I can fix it with the backdrop for those doors.

As for the little L’Arsenal guys…yeah I too am not sure if I will ever be able to get my crew to look as good as Krakos!


P.S. for those of you who want to know the correct color scheme for the bay floor.
Main color is aircraft carrier flight deck grey with the shuttle lifts being the darker grey of the aircraft lifts. The picture he gave me contained some errors because he crafted it as sorts of a mental note for himself. 

I how ever am probably going to keep the bay floor as it is now. As I said to me it looks right 
and adding a personal touch to a part of the ship we did not really see in detail does not hurt


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

Okay - this doesn't really fit here, but I don't want to start a new thread just for this. Here are my illuminated docking ports. I know the illumination doesn't exactly follow the studio model because the studio model has longer strips for illumination... blah, blah, blah... This seemed to work out best for lighting these little suckers. This little rabbit trail took much longer than I would have ever thought.

http://www.fourmadmen.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-1015
http://www.fourmadmen.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-1014
http://www.fourmadmen.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-1017
http://www.fourmadmen.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-1016
http://www.fourmadmen.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-1013
http://www.fourmadmen.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-1012
http://www.fourmadmen.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-1011


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

Very nice. I tried about three different ways of doing that until I settled on the simplest method, which may be the same as yours, judging from your earlier posts.

It really helps the scale impression, doesn't it? :thumbsup:


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## JadesDarkHeart (Dec 8, 2003)

Krako I love that effect  I just started another PL Refit on commission tonight. I am starting by filling in all the windows with clear resin.

I had some of the clear plastic inserts fall into the model on mine  I didn't want that to happen again and this way just seems to work better.

Got a tutorial for how you did that?

Greg


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## cinc2020 (May 10, 2004)

Good work, gentlemen!

As indicated in an earlier post, I trashed the first version of my hangar deck. It was dark and gloomy, and ultimately didn't work for me. Also, the lighting didn't work. So, I built another one, and I prefer the second iteration.

A few notes - I included classic markings from the CVN-65 aircraft carrier. Why not. Also, the elevator shafts will glow a faint blue, not apparent really in these images because the electronics are not rigged up. I will add Arsenal figures when they come in the mail. Walls are white, deck is gunship gray. Decals from scrounge box. I added assorted nonsense on the walls and ceiling using Evergreen plastic and spare photoetch. Rails from Gold Medal Models.

http://www.philsmith.us/Deck1.jpg
http://www.philsmith.us/Deck2.jpg
http://www.philsmith.us/Deck3.jpg
http://www.philsmith.us/Deck4.jpg
http://www.philsmith.us/Deck5.jpg
http://www.philsmith.us/Deck6.jpg
http://www.philsmith.us/Deck7.jpg (test fit only)


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

Very cool Cinc. 

Jades - I drilled out the original docking ports. Then sanded the edges (ring) flush. I used a rectangular file (2mm width, I believe) to create the actual docking port side lights. From the backside of the part, I filed about a mm deep on each side of the ring. Then I filled those holes with superglue gel and sanded flush when dry. I masked the clear areas and then painted the back of the part and the inside ring of the port black to eliminate light leaks through the plastic. I finished with a coat of flat white for the ring.

I painted the photetched ports with flat white enamel and glued them to a thin circular cutout of styrene (I'd have to check to see what diameter those circles were - 5/16", I think). The styrene circles were painted flat white on the front and black on the back before gluing the photoetch part to them. 

I superglued the photoetch and styrene port backing to the ring, and then applied a liberal amount of superglue gel over the joint on the backside of the part. After that gel dried, I painted the glue with black to eliminate light leaks from around the rim of the docking port. Be careful not to paint over the clear side lights in this last step!

Hope this helps!


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## The Trekmodeler (Jul 21, 2005)

Krako, That is some great work dude! Makes the model look much larger in scale.


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

Very nice, gents!


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

Krako - that is insanely cool. The lights in the docking ports, I mean. I used fibre optic in my 1/570 and it just doesn't cut it. I really like the brightness of your docking port lights. I think about the 1st thing we were taught in Astro 200 was that light intensity decreases with distance. The same thing has to be true with scale. I see so many spaceship models whose window ports could light up model room ceilings. The lights should not be that bright. If you were a scale person in there, the light intensity would be at x ray level. You can read a book in your living room. Walk 100 ft away from your living room light, the light is not going to be that bright. Those rectangles on your ports, absolutely perfect. 
Didn't they put photos of people behind the STTMP E's windows? I read somewhere that Andy Probert had his face in a window, and Mickey Mouse, among others. Hope you're in there somewhere on yours, K, or reclining in the VIP lounge.


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

Ha! Thanks, starseeker. I posted these somewhere, but these are decals I'm working on for the insides of the clear window inserts. I've tested them and they pull off the illusion that something's inside those windows...

http://www.fourmadmen.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-1010


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## Garbaron (Apr 23, 2004)

Hey Krako, nice job on the docking rings. I did it exactly the same way on my ERTL Refit:
http://www.culttvman.com/thorsten_scholz_ncc-1701-a_pic_37.html 

Cinc…. Very nice hangar bay! Wonder where you got the idea to light the middle section in red…..


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

G: Re: s...1-a pic 37.html: if you hadn't labelled that as a picture of a model, I would have thought that I'd just stumbled across the motherload of STTMP minature photos. Wow... So what is your 1/350 going to look like??? I don't even know if I'm going to go back into my modelling room. It's spring. Maybe I'll just start gardening a little earlier this year...


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## Garbaron (Apr 23, 2004)

HEY it’s not THAT good!

For example I did not correct the deflector girds on the engineering hull and due to lack of knowledge did not fill in the rectangular view ports aft of the warp pylons and the famous five in front of the docking port. The saucer landing legs should be rectangular instead of square, etc….

As for what my PL Refit will look like… well I hope to duplicate the color effects I created on this particular ERTL Refit. Then add all the little details I dropped because it was impracticable at this scale…one of them of course an accurate representation of the multilayered Aztec scheme. Saucer spotlights and what ever comes to my mind while working on it  


Regarding your PL build…. 


”Never give up, never surrender” 

Capt. Quincy Taggard, NSEA Protector 
(“Galaxy Quest”)


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## bigjimslade (Oct 9, 2005)

I'd be curious to know how Krako is doing the windows for the rec. deck. (As well as what is used to fill the other windows).


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

The rec deck piece I built used clear styrene sheet for the windows...

http://www.fourmadmen.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-981
http://www.fourmadmen.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-979
http://www.fourmadmen.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-980

As for the window ports, I'm not sure yet what I'm going to do. I was thinking I'd wait to see what the other guys around here did first. I'm curious about using clear resin for the windows, but I've never done that before. 

I've test-fitted several of the window inserts that came with the kit and they all seem to fit very well - no gaps so far. Still, if there's a better way...

For the VIP lounge and botanical garden, I plan on using clear styrene sheet (under the johnnycrash photoetch window frames).


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

Back in the 80s (???) Bob Steinbrunn (sp?), I think (how's that for definitive?), in FineScale Modeller used a technigue to make stunning windows in his aircraft models. He cut the window openings much larger than the actual windows and glued clear acetate into the opening. Then he polished the plastic crystal clear, masked the actual window with bare metal foil, scribed whatever panel lines he'd lost right across the acetate, and painted. If you use super glue on clear plastic, the superglue will likely fog the plastic. The two ways around this are, supposedly, 1, apply the superglue in extremely small amounts at any one time, and 2, coat the clear part with Future (BOTH sides!) and let it dry thoroughly before you install the piece. I haven't tried this technique (well, I do dip in Future before cementing and that works), but it has become SOP at FSM. I do know that I have never seen such stunning windows on any models as on his.


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

D'oh! - I have used that technique. Not on any model airplane, tho, but years ago on the 1/570 Ertl Es! I did the garden, rec room and lounge windows that way. Worked fine. There was a compromise, tho. You can either use thin plastic, and the windows on the garden and lounge will be flat, which wasn't how they were on the E, or you can use thicker plastic and sand the plastic to the contour of the curved glass, which looks better but produces a slight lensing effect. Possibly the best approach would be to do a simple oversized thermoform orr vacform for the curved glass, but the rec windows are flat glass anyway.


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## The Trekmodeler (Jul 21, 2005)

Krako said:


> The rec deck piece I built used clear styrene sheet for the windows...
> 
> http://www.fourmadmen.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-981
> http://www.fourmadmen.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-979
> ...


I'll be applying clear resin on the 1701-A I'm doing now. I experimented on a "spare kit" I have and not only does it do the trick but it also makes the port appear smaller and more to scale with the model. 
2 birds with one stone eh!! :thumbsup:


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## JadesDarkHeart (Dec 8, 2003)

> I'll be applying clear resin on the 1701-A I'm doing now. I experimented on a "spare kit" I have and not only does it do the trick but it also makes the port appear smaller and more to scale with the model.


That is what I am doing on the commission job I just started. Scotch tape on the outside, clear resin poured from the inside using a toothpick, exacto the airbubbles, pull tape and a light sanding. The pics below have not had a light sanding yet but they look really good so far.

JDH

http://www.blockheadpictures.com/BCD002.jpg
http://www.blockheadpictures.com/BCD003.jpg
http://www.blockheadpictures.com/BCD004.jpg
http://www.blockheadpictures.com/BCD005.jpg
http://www.blockheadpictures.com/BCD006.jpg


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

Cool! Where can I get some clear resin to try this technique?


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## JadesDarkHeart (Dec 8, 2003)

I am using Evirotex Lite to fill the windows. It is a 1:1 mixture solution that Don Matthys recommended in one of his tutorials. It is workable for at least 40 minutes after mixing. I let it sit 24 hours at least before removing the tape on the outside.

It has taken me two days to fill about 90 % of the windows on the refit.

I picked mine up at Hobby Lobby for about 10 bucks and I bought enough to do about 5 refits at least.

Mix, let it sit for about 5 minutes and 99% of the airbubbles go away on their own. It is some nice stuff for the price.

JDH


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## ArthurPendragon (Jan 4, 2004)

Dudes...

Simple way to make small lighted windows (Gal;actica, SW Star Destroyer, etc.) - fiber optics.

Simple way to make medium sized windows (1 to 3 mm) - clear watchmaker's glue, applyed with a syringe ( http://www.ares-server.com/Ares/Ares.asp?MerchantID=RET01229&Action=Catalog&Type=Product&ID=80343 )

Simple way to make large sized windows (showing interior) - acetate 

Simple way to make very large windows (PL refit VIP lounge and botanical garden windows) - vacuform butyrate or acetate clear sheets, over the actual kit part. Clean with soap, polish carefully with toothpaste (yes, tothpaste !) and coat with our beloved Future.

That's my 4 cents (2 + 2 cents).... )))))


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

Those sound great ... and simple ... but for the really anal-retentive modeler making medium-sized windows, clear watchmaker's glue won't conform to a convex hull exactly, no?

Of course, neither will resin-casting under tape, as the tape flattens itself out over the window (in my experience). To make the Envirotex Lite conform on an AMT smoothie, I used bits of plastic from margarine lids rubber-cemented over the window opening, maybe with some nose grease for a mold release.

It's neither simple nor quick, but it conforms.


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## klgonsneedbotox (Jun 8, 2005)

So, you could use the watchmakers glue for the majority of the ports on the PL REFIT?


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## ArthurPendragon (Jan 4, 2004)

klgonsneedbotox said:


> So, you could use the watchmakers glue for the majority of the ports on the PL REFIT?


Except for the large windows (VIP lounge, Botanical Garden and rear Recreation deck).

For the others, it's a choice, depending if you want to show some interior, or not.


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## ArthurPendragon (Jan 4, 2004)

SteveR said:


> To make the Envirotex Lite conform on an AMT smoothie, I used bits of plastic from margarine lids rubber-cemented over the window opening, maybe with some nose grease for a mold release.
> 
> It's neither simple nor quick, but it conforms.


Too much complicated.

Fot the ERTL/AMT, I've simply vacformed a piece of clear acetate over the model itself, before opening the botanical garden windows.

Simply oiled up the model part (with cousine olive oil !), softened the clear acetate with a lighter and rapdly applyed it over the model part. Then, some cold water and you'll have a free curved window "glass".


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

Okay, so will the watchmakers glue dry clear? I want clear windows I can see through. No cloudy windows for me.  Kirk would never allow dirty windows on his ship.


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

ArthurPendragon said:


> Too much complicated.
> 
> Fot the ERTL/AMT, I've simply vacformed a piece of clear acetate over the model itself, before opening the botanical garden windows.
> 
> Simply oiled up the model part (with cousine olive oil !), softened the clear acetate with a lighter and rapdly applyed it over the model part. Then, some cold water and you'll have a free curved window "glass".


Hmm ... nifty ... then how to apply the curved glass to the holes so they're flush to the hull? Cut out circles and insert them inside the kit's portholes?

Or use the formed acetate as a large smooth "jacket" over that section of the hull? Just gluing the acetate to the hull and masking the acetate where the windows would be? Hmm ... I don't think you're suggesting that ... ?


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## cinc2020 (May 10, 2004)

Or, you can save money and time and just glue the clear parts into the hull, fill the gaps with putty or super glue, and sand. Follow up with polishing compound, and the effect is excellent. 

You'll have to sand and polish the inside as well, to thin out the plastic a bit.


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

Actually, that's what I'm doing with the PL Refit, now that you mention it. 

I poured the resin into the old *AMT* Enterprise kit.


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## JadesDarkHeart (Dec 8, 2003)

You can see in this picture 

http://www.blockheadpictures.com/BCD002.jpg

that the resin I use is water clear. All that needs to be done is wet sanding with fine grade sand paper and the windows should be crystal clear. 

JDH

BTW that picture was taken AFTER the resin cured.


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

Cool, JDH! You've just about convinced me. One last thing - does clear resin cloud or yellow over time?


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## Bryancd (Jun 4, 2005)

JadesDarkHeart said:


> You can see in this picture
> 
> http://www.blockheadpictures.com/BCD002.jpg
> 
> ...



Looks awesome! Very clean :thumbsup:


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## ArthurPendragon (Jan 4, 2004)

SteveR said:


> Hmm ... nifty ... then how to apply the curved glass to the holes so they're flush to the hull? Cut out circles and insert them inside the kit's portholes?
> 
> Or use the formed acetate as a large smooth "jacket" over that section of the hull? Just gluing the acetate to the hull and masking the acetate where the windows would be? Hmm ... I don't think you're suggesting that ... ?


Vacform the plastic.

Open the retangular hole for the botanical garden.

Mark the hole perimeter at the curved acetate.

Cut the acetate, leaving "gluing tabs" at the sides:

........................................
! ! aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa ! !
! ! aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa ! !
! ! aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa ! !
!.!..................................!.! 

(the "a" are there just to show the surface of the plastic)

Fold.

Glue the folded parts, using clear watchmaker´s glue at the sides of the hole.


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## ArthurPendragon (Jan 4, 2004)

Krako said:


> Okay, so will the watchmakers glue dry clear? I want clear windows I can see through. No cloudy windows for me. Kirk would never allow dirty windows on his ship.


No. Not THAT clear !


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## JadesDarkHeart (Dec 8, 2003)

Krako said:


> Cool, JDH! You've just about convinced me. One last thing - does clear resin cloud or yellow over time?


That Krako I do not know. I bet an email to Don Matthys asking about Envirotex should answer that question.

Greg


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## H.Erickson (Sep 1, 2005)

Wow...I don't get to catch up on current events here nearly enough or spend as much time with you guys as I should be. This is the first time that I've been able to read through your who'll thread Krako and your Refit is absolutely outstanding! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: I've picked up at least a half a dozen new ideas and detals that I hadn't thought of before (for example:lighting the docking ports). I hope that you don't mind if I use some of your ideas. I'm one who'll will also be really looking forward to your updates!


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

Aurgh, I've got superglue under my fingernails. I hate when that happens. Anyway, it's been a couple weeks since I've been able to work on anything or check up on other's progress. But now I'm back at it, adding ribs to the hangar bays, and only 2 unexposed frames left on this roll of film. In a couple days, I'll find out if I've managed to capture anything worth posting. In the meantime, there seems to have been a huge silence from everyone else. Krako, G, Arthur, all of you others, what have you been up to? You were all just getting to the good stuff. Don't leave us hanging!


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

Can't wait to see your pics, starseeker! I don't know about everyone else, but I've had zero time to do any modeling for sometime now. I'm so backed up on work-related stuff that it's gonna be another three weeks before I can start up again. Until then, I'll live vicariously through you guys...


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## Garbaron (Apr 23, 2004)

Same here.... too much work did not allow for any progress on my hangar bay. Hope to get backt to working on it soon....but then the weather gets better and my bike is calling for a ride


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## Garbaron (Apr 23, 2004)

Hey guys.. long time no see I know. 

I was just too busy on work and finishing my bachelor thesis and did not get around to be working on my PL Refit much. Anyhow I made some progress on my TMP hangarbay and wanted to give you a little peek on what it looks like now. 

Its not finished. There are still some decals missing on the starboard side wall and there are only 3 out of 6 work bees at the hangar level. I also want to add at least 5 more L’Arsenal crewmen to the bay.. 3 (in engineering dress) at hangar level and 2 (1 engineering 1 command) at the cargo section. I have not yet applied the dull coat so the surface is shiny especially at the yellow strip at the centre of the landing bay section 

I would like to add that the PNT decals for the yellow centre strip are crap! They look nice on the decal paper but don’t work very well on the bay floor because the decals are too thin for the dark color I had chosen. This resulting in barely visible yellow stripping so I had to revered back to the decals that come with the kit. 

Thomas if you are reading this… I LOVE your decals they are great. But please re tool the yellow strips so there is more color there and it won’t completely vanish on dark surfaces. Also the black “keep clear” .. bad idea…. Make it white! It looks a lot better in white! Same goes for the bee garage numbering… make it white. 

Ok guys here you go with 2 pictures of my TMP hangar bay.. but keep in mind its NOT finished yet.

Edit:

Could not let you go like this with out showing you some more detail 

One picture shows the bees garages in more detail , the other shows the cargo level. There are not many cargo crates on the cargo level because I only places detail parts to locations that will be visible form the bay doors.

Oh.. btw.. the red strip in front of the Copernicus (shuttle marked “3”) is where the bay door force field will be. I will add a plate of clear styrene to where the bay walls close to the bay opening end. With this I hope to completely seal the hangar/cargo bay to protect it from dust to get in. My idea is to give the clear styrene a purple tint at the edges to the left and right to create an effect as depicted in Andy Proberts bay design ( http://probertdesigns.com/Folder_DESIGN/landingBay-1.html ) hope it will work out. Oh and Andy said that agrees on the red warning strip to indicate the forcefield and that he should have added something like that in the first place.. so its all approved by the master himself 

As for the yellow striping ending at the red forecfield warning strip. I separated the yellow markings it at the edge of where the clear styrene plate will be. Everything in front of it (extending outside form the bay) will still be exposed while handling the build of the secondary hull. I fear that the decal may be destroyed there while I put the hull together so I did not apply it. After work on the secondary hull is complete the missing yellow strip decal extending to the lip of the fantail will be added and sealed in with clear coat. 

Do I make sense here? Hope so.


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## Mr. Canoehead (Jun 12, 2006)

I must say that your hanger is incredible beyond words, an amazing achievment. I'm sure if Parmount needs a model with an interior they will look no further...


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

Very, very nice Garbaron! Some of those pics feel like shots of a full size room! Awesome work!


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## Raist3001 (Oct 23, 2003)

Garb, awesome work dude!! I agree with Krako, some of those shots really look like a full sized room!


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## Guest (Nov 2, 2006)

Excruciatingly cool workmanship Garb.
Clean, crisp and very shipshape!


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## The Trekmodeler (Jul 21, 2005)

VERY nicely done Garb! Extremely neat and realistic. Keep 'em comin!


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## Nova Designs (Oct 10, 2000)

WOW, great job, that looks much bigger than it really is. And excellent color choices... looks spot on!


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## Lloyd Collins (Sep 25, 2004)

I will sat again, looks like full sized room. The crew members give that push to almost real.


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## Garbaron (Apr 23, 2004)

Thx for all the compliments guys.  

I already added a few more crewmen and will give you an update as soon as I have completed all the detailing.


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## Flux Chiller (May 2, 2005)

Good work indeed. I like the glossy floor. Rather like a workshop surface. Proper job Thorsten..


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## Garbaron (Apr 23, 2004)

I like it too. .but the shininess destroys the scale effect I want to have. A ceiling three to four levels high just will not create that much glare on a shiny flooring as can be seen in the lighted pictures. 

As for an update: all the bees are in place now. Just one or two more crewmen to add. One will be at the cargo level next to the starboard turbo lift shaft so the poor engineering guy is not all alone down there. The other am not sure yet but I guess at the upper cat walk of near the turbo shaft. There are 6 missing decals on the starboard wall that need to be placed. And I have to scratch the starboard turbo shaft.. nothing I am looking forward too since it took me 3 hours to do the port shaft 

Oh and the three guys next to the Copernicus are just discussing final mission parameters including changes of shuttles sensor array to detect “gaseous anomalies”  

Have fun


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## ArthurPendragon (Jan 4, 2004)

Hey, Garbaron !

That´s great !!!

These figures are the L'Arsenal ones ?


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## Garbaron (Apr 23, 2004)

Thx my friend 

Yes these are the L'Arsenal figures. Pretty neat little guys eh?
And its not so hard to paint them either.

Put little figure in a clamp at the feet 

1: paint head in flesh color.
2: paint torso and arms white (engineering) or burgundy (command TWOK style)
3: paint hair color (what ever you like)
4: paint hands in flesh color if command, leave white if engineering
5: take littel guy out of clamp and place on masking tape and paint legs white (engineering) or black (command) 
6. let try
7: crew man John Doe reporting for duty 

Simple as it can be


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## idman (Apr 11, 2004)

I've lost some of my links where online can i get the L'Arsenals My hobby shop won't order them


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## Garbaron (Apr 23, 2004)

The site can be found here:
http://www.larsenal.com/GB/catalogue/Arsenal/1_350.php

Item number is : AC 350 33 

I also used AC 350 19 as railing inside the landing and cargo bay.


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## Garbaron (Apr 23, 2004)

A bit of an update on my hangar bay: 

All decals are placed
All crewmen are aboard total number of crewmen: 10 

Flight deck hold: 
- 6 work bees, one out side its garage to start inspection tour
- 2 STV Shuttles; Galileo on elevator, Copernicus ready for launch
- 1 TMP cargo container
- 2 Six sided TNG style cargo crates. 
- 3 engineering crewmen, 3 command

Cargo deck holds: 
- 4 TMP cargo containers
- 1 Six sided TNG style cargo crate
- 3 engineering crewmen 1 command (2 engineering on cargo deck, 1 command and engineering on balcony)

The lighting setup as you see it is final. I just need to glue it into place and build a hood for each of the 3 sections to increase illumination of the hangar/cargo bay. So far I have just put a sheet of paper over it. Will build the final “light box” later. 

Bay flooring already got its flat coating where by the cargo floor decal suffered form heavy silvering despite the gloss coat I applied… well its barely noticeable due to the light coming from above and not from the sides. 

All that is missing is the starboard side turbolift shaft which I will scratch build this week… I hope. 

That’s it folks… almost done on the hangar bay.. preparing for the botanical garden 

edit: I did not alter the pictures except for resolution.. this is what I looks like to the naked eye too. I believe the intensityof the white and red is just right considering the scale of the model.


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## Lloyd Collins (Sep 25, 2004)

Well done! Can't find anything I don't like.


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## Griffworks (Jun 24, 2002)

I'm gonna chime in w/a kudo and pat on the back, too. Excellent work!


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## Raist3001 (Oct 23, 2003)

Garb, absolutely fantastic!! Well done my friend. 

I love that last pic showing the shuttle on the raised elevator. What a sense of scale  I really get the sense that things are happening in there!


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## Braqua (Oct 19, 2003)

Very nice. The surface of the shuttlebay floor looks amazing. The only thing I can complain about is your lack of l33t photographic skills with Depth of Field. 
If you have a manual setting on your camera, increase your f-stop to 10 and see how that goes. You'll most likely need a tripod and longer exposure-times, but it *will* give you full depth of field in the whole bay. That's the only thing that now makes it look like a model, in my opinion.


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## Garbaron (Apr 23, 2004)

Thank you for all the compliments.. its more then appreciated folks. I’ll keep you updated as it goes. 

Braqua.. you are right. I did not play with my camera to get top notch pictures. Theses where taken in like 2 minutes. And yes I know I need a tripod.. will have one when she is all finished and I do my beauty shots. But until then these are just quick shots for portrait of advances in my PL Refit build up. But thx for tips anyway


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## Braqua (Oct 19, 2003)

You don't really need a tripod, as long as you can lay your camera down on something stabile, line it up, set the parameters and then activate the timer-delay on the camera, for when you take self-portraits. That way, you guarantee that no vibrations from you pressing the shutter-release is transferred to the camera. Just try, it'll be fine, I promise.

Oh, I forgot to say that your shuttlebay looks awesome, and your work is a great inspiration.


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