# 1/350th Dreadnought Class Conversion



## Vaderman (Nov 2, 2002)

Hey All, 

As I said, I have been busy. Here is another project I have been working on while finishing the old TOS E build-up and working on the 1/350th Constellation Class (Stargazer). This will be a 1/350th Dreadnought conversion kit for the PL Refit. 

The neck has been modified and extended for the third nacelle warp pylon. The third nacelle pylon still needs work. This one is just a mock-up. The nacelles have been modified by moving the pylon connection area forward and then creating a slot for the pylon attachment. The pylon is two parts (a top and a bottom). It is designed to run wiring to light it. Finally the strongback has been modified by removing the old pylon bases and inserting new hull panels. Then are piece was cut out for the pylon to placed on. 

The neck, nacelles, and strongback will be vacuformed and the pylons will be resin. I still need to modify the bridge. 

Let me know what you guys think. 

Larger versions of the photos can be found here: 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/1484492...7605874545811/ 



Scott


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## Vaderman (Nov 2, 2002)

Next set.


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## Vaderman (Nov 2, 2002)

and finally..


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## Bernard Guignar (Sep 9, 2006)

Nice Looking forward to seeing more pictures


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## jay_barnes (Apr 11, 2002)

Nice job!


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## Griffworks (Jun 24, 2002)

Looks great thus far, Scott! :thumbsup:

Maybe I missed it, but are you doing a secondary hull extension?


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## TGel63 (Mar 26, 2004)

Would it be a good idea to make the neck resin as well to hold the saucer weight?


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## Vaderman (Nov 2, 2002)

TGel63 said:


> Would it be a good idea to make the neck resin as well to hold the saucer weight?


That may be an option. The mold is done for it but I want to see how a vacuform neck will do before I go the resin route. Remember, the SFSM was a vacuform neck and it held up fine. If I line the inner edges of both halves with apoxie sculpt and a resin piece on the inside bottom of the torpedo launcher that screws will go through it may work....maybe.....I think......I guess I will find out.

Scott


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## Vaderman (Nov 2, 2002)

Griffworks said:


> Looks great thus far, Scott! :thumbsup:
> 
> Maybe I missed it, but are you doing a secondary hull extension?



I thought about it, but to simplify this for the builder, I decided to just replace the strongback piece. I did not want to complicate the kit anymore than necessary. Makes it a lot like the SFSM kit.


Scott


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## Griffworks (Jun 24, 2002)

Vaderman said:


> I thought about it, but to simplify this for the builder, I decided to just replace the strongback piece. I did not want to complicate the kit anymore than necessary.


I can understand that and don't have a problem with it. 


> Makes it a lot like the SFSM kit.


Except yours has a different B/C deck arrangement, right?


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## Vaderman (Nov 2, 2002)

To be honest, I did not even know that the B/C deck was different. I know the bridge module was. Looking at schematics, it looks like it is a little wider than the refit. Is that right? 

Scott


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## Griffworks (Jun 24, 2002)

Yessir, just a bit wider. It's also got five windows for the VIP Lounge, not four like the Refit.


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## Vaderman (Nov 2, 2002)

Griffworks said:


> Yessir, just a bit wider. It's also got five windows for the VIP Lounge, not four like the Refit.


I will have to think about it. I don't have anymore spare saucers sitting around that I can chop up the B/C deck and modify. I may have to leave it as is. What does everyone else think?

Scott


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## Vaderman (Nov 2, 2002)

Wow, it has been awhile since I last posted this. 

Well, first stage set-up for the female molds have begun. The positive silicone molds have been laid out on the sheet and tacked down with silicone. The walls will be built on the mold box and then the pouring will begin. 

The Dreadnought refit conversion will be the next release. As soon as I have some pictures of the mold making process, I will post them.

Scott


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## Vaderman (Nov 2, 2002)

Well, we had some set backs last night. We did some test pulls on these parts and I am just not happy with them. The main problem is these are some tight areas that the plastic can not draw into very well, so the details leave alot to be desired. The nacelles also looked like crap in my opinion. So it may be back to the drawing board. 

I will definitely need to make the neck out of resin, but will make sure that you can still light it. The nacelles are going to be the biggest challeng. You may ask why do I need to have 3 nacelles? Well when researching the schematics I discovered that the mounting point for the pylon to the nacelle was actually further forward than on the Enterprise, so I moved it forward. I could leave it to the modeler to do, but that could intimidate them. What do you guys think? If I eliminated the two lower nacelles, they can still use the kits nacelles and people can decide if they want to modify it to the schematics or not. That way, I only need to provide the third nacelle with the res of the parts.

Scott


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## Vaderman (Nov 2, 2002)

I have been thinking about this project and have a few ideas to change up what is needed for the conversion. It will require less parts which will lead to the kit costing less. 

One idea is that I would eliminate the modified lower nacelles and let people use the nacelles in the refit kit already provided. They can decide if they want to modify it or not.

The other idea is just providing an extension peice for the neck as opposed to providing a completely new one.

Thoughts????


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## Vaderman (Nov 2, 2002)

Finally an update on this project. I have been working on some conversion parts for a 1/350th scale Dreadnought class. This is a combination of vacuform parts and resin parts. The vacuform parts will be a replacement strongback (with a resin insert underneath to strengthen the part) and third nacelle. The resin parts will be a neck extension piece that will be pressure cast clear for lighting, warp pylon, and bridge module (also pressure cast clear). 

I had made the pylons, but was not happy with my scratchbuilt versions and am currently working with someone who is creating some CAD files so I can have the parts 3D printed. 

I will be offering these for sale soon. I have to get the rest of the parts done and do a basic build-up for instructions. 

I hope you like it so far.

Scott


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## Vaderman (Nov 2, 2002)

Here are a few more pictures.

View larger photos at: http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/sets/72157623384238076/

Scott


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

Another fine looking kit about to issue forth from A-Dubya Studios!


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## Vaderman (Nov 2, 2002)

Well there is a problem. Somehow the vacuform part for the strongback is not long enough. Something must have happened in the molding process. Back to the drawing board. 

Scott


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

Vaderman said:


> Well there is a problem. Somehow the vacuform part for the strongback is not long enough. Something must have happened in the molding process. Back to the drawing board.
> 
> Scott


Another fine example of his devotion to craftsmanship from Messr. Einholf! :hat:


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## Vaderman (Nov 2, 2002)

Here are some pictures of the new pylon that I had drawn up in CAD and will have SLA grown.

I wanted to make sure that the parts were symetrical and would fit together. 

I have a question, do you all think the the edges should be rounded like the refit or kept as they are. There really is not a good reference picture to go from. I will go with whatthe majority of people would like to have.

Scott


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## WarpCore Breach (Apr 27, 2005)

They probably should have the same rounded edge as the Refit, shouldn't it? It strikes me that if they are sharp-edged, they would somehow look a bit "off".

I take it that there are no plans to modify the secondary hull since the DN version had a slightly longer secondary hull? I've been struggling with this issue on the old AMT Refit. Cut and extend it? Or leave it as is?

Nice to see that your attention to detail is resulting in a quality kit! :thumbsup:


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## Vaderman (Nov 2, 2002)

I think in order for people to be able to use the refit kit, we will need to keep the strongback replacement part the same length as the kit part. It is a little sacrifice, but will still retain the look and feel of ship.

Scott


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## WarpCore Breach (Apr 27, 2005)

Fair enough, Scott! 

It's also along the same lines I've been considering for the AMT Refit DN conversion. By not changing the secondary hull length, that lessens a certain amount of work that's already considerable for that kit!


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## Vaderman (Nov 2, 2002)

Hey guys,

Finally got the dreadnought pylon reworked. Based on feedback I received, the majority of people wanted a more rounded edge/curve to the pylon wings. In addition, we added a section on one part of the pylon that will allow the builder to place the pylon on the 1/350th Refit kit's strongback part and not use a replacement strongback.

We also created two insert pieces to replace the part of the strongback that attaches the enterprise pylons. Sorry, I don't have pictures of these. 

I am planning on having the parts 3D printed and then will clean them up and prepare them for casting. The parts are designed with tabs in order to fit the top and bottom parts of the pylons together.

Let me know what you all think.

Scott


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## Vaderman (Nov 2, 2002)

One more.


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

Looks like it'll be nice. Scrapping the custom strongback was a good idea. Is there enough of a groove down the pyl0ns for wiring? Minimum 22-24 gauge wire. 18 gauge is probably too thick an expectation.


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## Vaderman (Nov 2, 2002)

There will be plenty of room for wiring and for the modeler to add any reinforcement to prevent drooping over time.

Scott


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## eagledocf15 (Nov 4, 2008)

*Looks great!*

Please add me to the list of the people wanting one of these kits. Where do we order them?


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## Vaderman (Nov 2, 2002)

You got it David. BTW, I sill have you with a credit from the old TOS project, so you will not have to pay for this kit. You will still have a little left over for the Stargazer kit when that is done.

Scott


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## geino (May 9, 2006)

Scott,

Looks good. I was thinking of kit bashing one myself. Let me know when the kit will be available. 

Gene


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## Vaderman (Nov 2, 2002)

It should be ready in the next couple of months. Gotta get the parts printed and then do the clean up. Mold, cast, etc. 

Scott


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## Vaderman (Nov 2, 2002)

The new parts are here...the new parts are here....

I am so stoked. Just a little more clean-up and then dump some silicone on them.

What we got here are the top and bottom dreadnought refit pylons and to insert parts to replace two sections on the 1/350 refit strongback. 

I have a business trip to San Diego next week, but I should be able to get these molded in the next 3 weeks. Once that is done, they will be ready for sale.

Scott


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## Vaderman (Nov 2, 2002)

Here are some more pictures.


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

Crisp lookin'! If you are in the LA area, give a shout.


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## Vaderman (Nov 2, 2002)

I would like to start an interest list to see how many kits I should produce for a first run. If you are interested, please let me know. Thanks.

Scott


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## Vaderman (Nov 2, 2002)

Wow, it has been awhile. The molds are almost done. I just need to do the second part of a two part mold and I will be ready to make parts. I hope to have a build-up done soon after, but I won't let that stop people from getting these parts when they are ready. 

Scott


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## Vaderman (Nov 2, 2002)

Hey all, 

It has been awhile since I have provided an update on the 1/350 Dreadnought refit conversion. I had lost my job and did not have the funds to work on it. However, I now have a new job and things are moving. 

Here are some photos of the conversion parts and a little of the build-up I am doing. 

What we have are: 

1. Neck extension for the refit. 
2. Strong-back inserts to replace the refit pylon section. 
3. Pylon for the 3rd nacelle. 


These parts were 3D printed. I am still working on the vacuform 3rd nacelle. I hope to have this kit available before the end of the year.


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## Vaderman (Nov 2, 2002)

A few more.

Scott


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Very much awesomeness!


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## CLBrown (Sep 8, 2010)

Griffworks said:


> Looks great thus far, Scott! :thumbsup:
> 
> Maybe I missed it, but are you doing a secondary hull extension?


Griff is right... this is something a lot of folks miss on this ship, but it's significant.

Most of the "dreadnaught conversions" I've seen out there use the standard Enterprise secondary hull, and the standard saucer for that matter. They do the following:

1) replace the dorsal (longer and with aft-firing torpedo tubes)
2) add a third nacelle off the dorsal
3) swap out the bridge
4) use a horizontal engine pylon assembly.

These are the easiest bits to do, of course, and the other changes are harder to see, but are significant.

5) The secondary hull is some 30% or so longer. The landing bay "lip" also extends significantly beyond what the TMP Enterprise has.

6) The B/C deck superstructure is significantly larger, with nearly 200% the volume of the TMP Enterprise's superstructure.

These really can't be easily "modified" from the existing model, and require fully-custom drop-in-replacement parts.

In my case, I did the secondary hull by building up two Enterprise secondary hulls, slicing them into rings, "stacking them," and then using super-fine Milliput to create a smooth section. It took AGES, but I've got a secondary hull which is correct to the original published data.

As for the primary hull B/C deck superstructure, I did something similar... I sliced up the B/C deck of an Enterprise kit into radial ribs and used these as the skeleton of a white Milliput structure, built atop the existing B/C deck structure.

And, of course, there are the following (fairly easy) fixes that people often miss as well:

7) The control reactors on the nacelles are located differently.

8) The window pattern is also significantly different, and the docking ports are in different locations, and so forth, but those fixes are trivial to make. Doing the secondary hull fix and the B/C-deck fix were the painful elements of my own Federation Class Dreadnought. But they were worth it. 

In-universe... the B/C deck superstructure is a lot larger because these ships are generally fleet-command vessels, and the fleet operations center is in that region (as well as all the resources the Enterprise has). That's also the explanation for the bridge module having two docking ports rather than one, by the way... to permit faster transfers of command staff (I always thought that this was silly, personally... most transfers would be by transporter, wouldn't they?)

Also, in-universe, the secondary hull is larger because, instead of one reactor assembly (as in the TMP Enterprise) there are TWO such reactors... basically, the ship produces twice as much power. The cargo deck is much smaller, but the flight deck and hangar deck are larger... supporting more embarked craft (including some tactical craft... call them "fighters" if you wish).

The dreadnought lacks an arboretum, by the way.


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## Vaderman (Nov 2, 2002)

I am aware of the increased sizes of the secondary hulls and such, however, I wanted to make this a fairly simple conversion kit that would not require too much modifications for the modeler.

Got any pictures to show of your conversion? Is it 1/350th?

Scott


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## CLBrown (Sep 8, 2010)

Vaderman said:


> I am aware of the increased sizes of the secondary hulls and such, however, I wanted to make this a fairly simple conversion kit that would not require too much modifications for the modeler.
> 
> Got any pictures to show of your conversion? Is it 1/350th?
> 
> Scott


At the moment, this is packed away, so I can't take up-close photos of the (mostly-finished) model. (I still haven't finished painting, but the physical construction is complete.)

Now, these are pre-painting, so the "jigsaw" appearance is quite evident. Note that I used the super-fine white Milliput to make these, which is actually very, very smooth. Once I put on a couple of coats of primer paint and did a couple of cycles of sanding, there was no visible differentiation between the different construction.. it's perfectly smooth. But at this point in the construction, there were a few defects still there.

The reason I took these photos was to illustrate the difference between this and the TMP Enterprise (or rather, the Ertl TMP Enterprise kit).

I originally started off with the SFSM vac-form kit, but the only element I ended up keeping from that kit was the skin on the dorsal, and that ended up filled and sanded so many times that I might as well have left it off. You can see where I was partly through constructing my new torpedo system here, as well.

These are the two "biggies" for this ship... the secondary hull and the B/C deck... that pretty much get ignored, as I said before.

First, a comparison of the Enterprise saucer versus the Federation saucer:


Next, a closer image of the Federation saucer's B/C deck superstructure:


And the final-shape (and MOSTLY smoothed out) secondary hull, with the dorsal under construction:


I also did a Monoceros class scout at the same time... both are finished and in boxes right now, except that they only have the base coat of paint.

While the Monoceros name is semi-official, there have been multiple fan attempts to create it. I based my effort on this one:









This, also, is a modified Ertl kit. In this case, you can see my extensive use of red putting to fill in the crappy panel detailing. (I HATE FILLING IN PANEL LINES!!!)



I gave it a saucer-rim shuttle bay... there's parking forward and aft of this door, allowing for two shuttlecraft (and four work-bees off of the upper level, inside wall).


(Looks like I've got to cut this into two sections to post the whole thing, soo... to be continued)


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## CLBrown (Sep 8, 2010)

(and continuing...)



One thing that most people miss about TMP-era ships is that there are three magnetic field sensors on both the Enterprise and the Reliant, and this makes good technical sense, so I always have three of these on every ship I make. In the case of this ship, there's no deflector dish for them to go around, so I settled for something more along the lines of what was done on Reliant.

So, there are three... two "notched in" to the saucer, and one on the underside of the nacelle, as you can see here:


I refurbished the dorsal quite a bit... most of it is pretty subtle unless you're very familiar with the Enterprise's dorsal, though. 


The most significant feature of the Monoceros, of course, is the huge, enhanced scanner package where the B/C deck superstructure would be on the Enterprise. You can see that pretty clearly here.


In my case, this is the USS Pegasus. Here are the decals I had custom-made for my ship. They are still waiting for application, in fact... gotta get around to finishing painting these guys one of these days! I also did a custom lower sensor platform, mostly from scratch, and did several castings of it. This same platform was used on my Enterprise, Reliant, Federation, and Monoceros build-ups.


I LOVE the building part. But my painting skills are significantly less-well-developed than my building skills are. That, plus the fact that I haven't had a good "painting studio" environment for several years now (the joys of renting!) have led me to have a number of "mostly done" models just waiting for final dressing-up.


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## Shizman (Nov 21, 2008)

Vaderman said:


> I would like to start an interest list to see how many kits I should produce for a first run. If you are interested, please let me know. Thanks.
> 
> Scott


I'm in for a set.


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## Griffworks (Jun 24, 2002)

Lookin' great, Scott! :thumbsup:


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## Vaderman (Nov 2, 2002)

Thanks for feedback. I hope there is more interest.

Scott


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## CLBrown (Sep 8, 2010)

Oh, hey, I wanted to toss out just one more item that people (including SFSM) tend to get wrong re: the Federation class dreadnought. I suspect you've got this under control, though... but wanted to raise the issue, just in case you weren't aware.

The centerline nacelle for the Federation (uprated) dreadnought is not just made from two "outside halves" of the standard Enteprise nacelle. In fact, it should have two INSIDE GRILLS, not two outside grills.

In my case, I used two inside engine halves and fabricated the "intercooler fin" separately. You also need to change the control reactor position (as you do for the more conventional nacelles out on the "wingtips").

Ideally, what I'd produce if I were making this as a saleable kit for the Ertl model would be a full internal nacelle casting (with all appropriate fixes) and a replacement underside edge (including the repositioned control reactor fin) for the Ertl nacelles to fix the outboard ones. I'd do what you're doing for the "wing pylon" (I made mine from a series of layers of laminated plastruct sheet, sanded to a wing-like shape and with final layers of thin grooved and then trimmed thin ungrooved plastic on the outer skin. The secondary hull really should ideally be custom, except for the deflector dish and hangar doors (which can be stock kit parts).

This secondary hull would either need to be hollow-cast or cast in two halves (which seems easier and more practical). And if I were producing this as a kit, I'd incorporate the secondary hull and the dorsal into a single part (or into single "hull halve" parts, perhaps), rather than leaving them as two parts needing to be assembled. this would make for a very robust structure.

Replacing the B/C deck structure would be pretty easy... and it really adds to the sense that this isn't "just the enterprise with an extra nacelle" though not as much as the much larger secondary hull does. 

If you want to do the "three-nacelled Enterprise" (as SFSM and others have done in the past), that's a valid approach, but it would not be the "Federation (uprated) Dreadnought." It would be some other class of ship, maybe. (Which is not entirely unreasonable, in-universe... look at the Ascension-class Dreadnought, with is basically a three-engined Belknap.)


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## Vaderman (Nov 2, 2002)

Here are some photos of the bridge.

I modified the PL Refit bridge and left 2 pegs so it fits into the PL saucer.

Let me know what you think.

Scott


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## Vaderman (Nov 2, 2002)

One more.


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## CLBrown (Sep 8, 2010)

Hmmm... So, instead of being LARGER than the TMP E bridge module, this one is smaller?

I did notice that this is pretty much a completely new module layout. Have you thought about what goes where, and why, inside? I don't see space to have docking ports and lift shafts in that volume, unless the bridge isn't a full circle. But... maybe you have something else in mind?


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## Vaderman (Nov 2, 2002)

I designed this like many of the 1/537 scale versions, but made a few detail changes. Remember, the dreadnought was more of a battleship, so it would not have the lounge area in the back of the bridge. I really did not have a bridge layout in mind when modifying the part.

Scott


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## Vaderman (Nov 2, 2002)

Hey all,

Here are some pictures of the neck attached to the strongback as well as pictures of a casting of the pylon. Let me know what you think please.


Scott


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## Vaderman (Nov 2, 2002)

Some more.


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## Vaderman (Nov 2, 2002)

And more.


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## CLBrown (Sep 8, 2010)

Vaderman said:


> I designed this like many of the 1/537 scale versions, but made a few detail changes. Remember, the dreadnought was more of a battleship, so it would not have the lounge area in the back of the bridge. I really did not have a bridge layout in mind when modifying the part.
> 
> Scott


Well, the TMP bridge did not have a lounge, either. At least, not according to any of the references I've seen. Basically, it's a circular bridge, with two lifts at the aft end (though later bridge layouts totally ignored the clear physical location of those tubes on the model), and a single small airlock between those two lift tubes.

Here's the bridge set configuration...

http://www.strekschematics.utvinternet.com/bridgeplans/entrefitbridge.jpg

Now, your bridge seems to cut into the space occupied by those lift tubes. Maybe you have a single central lift tube?


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## Vaderman (Nov 2, 2002)

I really could not tell ya. I am just doing something different with the bridge. Remember, federation starship bridges are not all the same. As far as I am concerned, the bridge is a unique design and I do not see why it could still not have 2 turbo lifts. The circles on the top are supposed to represent the turbolift shafts and there is still enough space for them. 

As a point of reference, other people have designed different bridges as well. Attached is the parts that VA Miniatures offers with their 1/537 dreadnought conversion. If people who end up buying the kit don't want to use this part, they can still use the original PL part and modify that as they want.

Scott


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Are those "wings going to hold up the engines without sagging?


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## Vaderman (Nov 2, 2002)

No. They are going to need to be reinforced. Like most resin, without support, they will sag over time. 

Scott


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Mold a brass rod into them, maybe?


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## CLBrown (Sep 8, 2010)

Vaderman said:


> No. They are going to need to be reinforced. Like most resin, without support, they will sag over time.
> 
> Scott


Curious how you plan to reinforce... are you going to embed a metal plate in the middle? (A great idea in general, as long as the plate is perforated...)

The trick with doing that is how you ensure that the plate is exactly centered in the molded part. Not impossible to do, but always a challenge. (A lot harder to do with injection molding, of course, but still challenging with low-pressure molding like this as well.)


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## eagledocf15 (Nov 4, 2008)

*Looking good!!*

Keep up the great work!
Resin has a nasty tendency to weaken over time, so I agree with the previous replys and re-inforcment of the resin is needed.


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## Vaderman (Nov 2, 2002)

I used some craft wood sticks and it is solid. There is enough space in between the parts to put some bracing. The way it is designed, I would not be able to cast it into the part. I will post pictures soon.


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## Vaderman (Nov 2, 2002)

Hey All,

I know it has been awhile since I posted anything on this. I have been working on a build-up. I still need to do the third nacelle. The bridge is in silicone as we speak. The nacelle will be a resin cast with fiberglass backing. I hope to be able to offer this within the next 2 months. Let me know what you all think.

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5197/6954600654_7a43142b3c.jpg
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7206/6954600686_3ebe173d43_z.jpg
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5232/7100670413_8cc3a85785_z.jpg
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7187/7100670433_f50e6b1299_z.jpg
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5455/7100670491_49248e8b4e_z.jpg
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5319/7100670517_5404e9997a_z.jpg
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5450/6954600836_108e85a108_z.jpg
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7113/7100670585_d8f09340aa_z.jpg
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5271/6954600856_62f89f488f_z.jpg
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5347/6954600914_0596520447_z.jpg
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5444/6954600626_cecbddf910_z.jpg

And before anyone asks, no I did not extend the hull. I am trying to make this fairly easy for the everyday modeler to be able to take their 1/350th refit and convert it to a dreadnought. That is how the old 1/537th conversion kit that Jeff P. made was done as well. 

I hope you all like it and will want to buy a conversion kit when they are ready.

Scott


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## Vaderman (Nov 2, 2002)

And some more.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Lookin' good!


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## eagledocf15 (Nov 4, 2008)

*Looking good.*

Do you have an estimated cost yet? it still may be early, but it dosen't hurt to ask.


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