# Carpet Racing League - Toledo Edition



## Motor City Hamilton (Feb 5, 2002)

http://onroadracing.com/crl 

I can't wait. Flyer is posted on the above website. Final rules will be up there before the first race. I know that I'll get questions about battery and motor rules, so I'll post a little of what you need to know right now. We will allow 3800s, 3700s, 3300s and lower. Nothing above 3800s is legal. As for motors, no hybrids will be allowed (i.e. C1 arm in a C2 can, or green machine arm in Monster can or Orion arm in a Trinity can). Some racers don't like this, but this is a much easier way to manage tech. So, don't even bother practicing with these motors for a CRL. We will do random checks (probably 3 or more vehicles each race) and if caught with a hybrid or illegal motor, you'll lose that round and points if it is in the main.

Feel free to post additional questions here or contact me by PM, e-mail or phone.


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## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

BRRRrrrAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAaaAaaaaAAaAa!

That is my best Aaron Bomia impression.


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## Greg Anthony (Sep 10, 2002)

http://onroadracing.com/crl/contact.php
My favorite quote on this page is:

_Contact Keith for any questions regarding the Carpet Racing League._
_At the track, he is the tall, lanky guy with the cars that are painted green. Trust us, you can't miss his cars._


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## Motor City Hamilton (Feb 5, 2002)

Give Rich the props for that. I laughed too. Just to make it easier to find me, I plan to wear bright green pants, a white shirt and black shoes and hat at the CRL.


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## rcsilly (Jul 30, 2002)

I picked up on the "green theme " this year too ........ green is cool !


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## kevinm (Jan 16, 2002)

Motor City Hamilton said:


> ... As for motors, no hybrids will be allowed (i.e. C1 arm in a C2 can, or green machine arm in Monster can or Orion arm in a Trinity can). Some racers don't like this, but this is a much easier way to manage tech. So, don't even bother practicing with these motors for a CRL. We will do random checks (probably 3 or more vehicles each race) and if caught with a hybrid or illegal motor, you'll lose that round and points if it is in the main.
> 
> Feel free to post additional questions here or contact me by PM, e-mail or phone.


Keith - If you go STRICTLY by ROAR rules for 19T, the only legal motor is a fairly new C2 (or an older one with a new "cross-wrap" armature). Nothing else that I can find from other brands meets ALL ROAR rules for 19T.


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## wreckscuba (Mar 9, 2003)

Was planing on making the trip down but with the date change we cant:drunk: .If the rest of the dates remain the same we can make them :thumbsup:


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## Tim Stamper (May 22, 2002)

For those going to the race, don't forget that there is a red light and speeding camera on woodville rd at the light in front of the school. I hear it clicks off a picture at 46mph. The speed limit is 35mph.

Tim


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## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

Good call! You'd think I'd remember since I got a warning letter from them for speeding through there. Unfortunately, I'll probably forget again come the 22nd.

-Rich


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## Xpressman (Dec 6, 2001)

I'm sure Ted has his memories of it and he wasn't even driving.


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## Xpressman (Dec 6, 2001)

kevinm said:


> Keith - If you go STRICTLY by ROAR rules for 19T, the only legal motor is a fairly new C2 (or an older one with a new "cross-wrap" armature). Nothing else that I can find from other brands meets ALL ROAR rules for 19T.


Keith it might be easier just to say C2, Reedy Quad mag, and the Orion Element/Peak Dynasty are the only legal ones and no hybrids or handwound arms. This is what was used for the Vegas race and it's pretty self explaiatory. The only other thing is I know some have the Corally 19t (meets all ROAR specs) and the Atlas 19t. But hey it is your series. So it should be as long as they meet Hammy Rules.


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## Fred Knapp (Oct 7, 2001)

Jesse, Andrew and myself will be making the trip down from the west side.
So much racing and so little time.
-Fred


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## mcsquish (Jan 31, 2003)

Keith the web site is cool. There is only one thing that I would change though. Josh's CEFX site is a ".net". I'm glad to see the CRL is back this year. I had a good time DQing Keith. :devil:


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## smoothie (Mar 23, 2004)

*website/address*

Could you please post websites and or addresses to all the tracks. Toledo is going to be the closest and that is 2 hours away. I am just wandering if it is worth the trip?


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## Hustler (Feb 1, 2004)

smoothie said:


> Could you please post websites and or addresses to all the tracks. Toledo is going to be the closest and that is 2 hours away. I am just wandering if it is worth the trip?


Trust us brotherman, it'll be worth the effort...  

-Sean


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## TimXLB (Oct 8, 2005)

Smoothie:

Hi

Dude. I drive 250(one-way) miles to race at Halo. it's THAT good. and the CRL race makes it that much better. well worth a 2 hr drive... I wish it was a 2 hr drive for us we'd be there every weekend.

Rich:

You and Fred going to the CRL race on the 22nd?????? (and bring the TC3)


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## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

Tim,

Yep, Fred and I will be there. I'll just be racing 1/12th stock and 19-turn. No TC for me. 

Fred will be racing TC and 1/12th.

-Rich


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## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

*19-turn motors ruling?*

Hi Keith,

Any ruling on the 19-turn motors that will be allowed (considering the info provided above regarding 19-turn motors)? I need to purchase a 19-turn motor and I only want to purchase one, so I'd like it to be legal for the series. 

I was looking at the new Integy 19-turn. It is tagged, is fixed timing and uses standard brushes.

-Rich


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## TimXLB (Oct 8, 2005)

Rich:

Hi,

Look at the Atlas 19t also. (might be the same one..not sure) runs like a Reedy but keeps pulling long after the Reedy stops. they flat out rock.
for more info check out the Express thread on rctech. Tag has posted a bit about them.
sorry your not running TC. maybe I'll have to get Mini into a 1-12th scale so you to can have some fun.


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## Motor City Hamilton (Feb 5, 2002)

Rich Chang said:


> Hi Keith,
> 
> Any ruling on the 19-turn motors that will be allowed (considering the info provided above regarding 19-turn motors)? I need to purchase a 19-turn motor and I only want to purchase one, so I'd like it to be legal for the series.
> 
> ...


19 turn, tagged arm, fixed timing and standard brush type. No V-brushes, no hand wound arms, no hybrids, no changing brush hoods to a different type than what comes with the motor and no swapping out magnets. For the cheaters out there, did I miss any of the standard cheater tricks?

Anyone know the issue with the old C1 motors? Seems like older technology would be slower anyway? I ask because I have one laying in the box from a couple of years ago.


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## rcsilly (Jul 30, 2002)

Keith , The old C 1 arm didn't have a com lock , crank em up . LOL


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## Aaron Bomia (Feb 14, 2002)

I've been away from this board for quite some time, so thanks for remembering me Rich. Braaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!



Rich Chang said:


> BRRRrrrAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAaaAaaaaAAaAa!
> 
> 
> That is my best Aaron Bomia impression.


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## Fred B (Sep 26, 2001)

I think that you pretty much hit everything Keith.

The round brushes (v brushes) are slow in 12th so they wouldn't be an issue there. I honestly don't know if they would be an advantage in touring or not.

The old C1 arm was hemi wound...It's more like a 18 1/2 turn than a 19. That's why they were running the C1 arms at Vegas. Cheaters!

I definately agree that there should be no untagged arms. Lose the tag and you have to run another arm. It also gets rid of the odd ball arms without tags (19 double).

FB


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## Ted Flack (Sep 26, 2001)

Fred B said:


> I think that you pretty much hit everything Keith.
> 
> The round brushes (v brushes) are slow in 12th so they wouldn't be an issue there. I honestly don't know if they would be an advantage in touring or not.
> 
> ...


 
Fred, Fred buddy, you forget that early C2 arms are hemi wound with tags and locks.............soooooo..........hemi wound is legal.


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## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

So, THAT is what is in all those Dodge cars, eh?


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## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

*Other rules*

Thanks for the ruling on the motors, Keith. 

I assume you will continue to check weight and ride-height?

-Rich


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## mcsquish (Jan 31, 2003)

I hope so, I feel like DQing Keith again this year. If I'm in tech.


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## Xpressman (Dec 6, 2001)

Fred B said:


> I think that you pretty much hit everything Keith.
> 
> The round brushes (v brushes) are slow in 12th so they wouldn't be an issue there. I honestly don't know if they would be an advantage in touring or not.
> 
> ...


Fred,

Martin Crisp (Peak Performance) used the Peak version of the Orion Element to TQ and win 19t rubber TC at Vegas. On another thread he said he used laydown brushes as he said they gave the best overall performance and didn't matter shich type (767, f-brush, 4499). They also make that motor with stand-up, lay-down, and V-brushes. I guess they want to cover all rules.


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## Greg Anthony (Sep 10, 2002)

Don;t forget to bring your MOD 1/12th and TC car's too guys, Sat we had 4 or 5 TC's just practicing and that wasn't even with Josh there!


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## mcsquish (Jan 31, 2003)

Yeah Greg, and I eve realy messed up my car. I still haven't found out what I did to it. Besides hiting the wall realy realy hard.


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## Greg Anthony (Sep 10, 2002)

you mean it was more then the motor? WOW


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## mcsquish (Jan 31, 2003)

Yeah, but I'm not sure what.


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## kevinm (Jan 16, 2002)

Motor City Hamilton said:


> 19 turn, tagged arm, fixed timing and standard brush type. No V-brushes, no hand wound arms, no hybrids, no changing brush hoods to a different type than what comes with the motor and no swapping out magnets. For the cheaters out there, did I miss any of the standard cheater tricks?
> 
> Anyone know the issue with the old C1 motors? Seems like older technology would be slower anyway? I ask because I have one laying in the box from a couple of years ago.


How about a C1 with the ROAR legal cross-wrap arm? All my C1 arms wore out many years ago. I haven't noticed any meaningful performance difference between my old C1 motors and a C2. Just the luck of the draw which one runs better, though the C2 seems to have slightly stronger magnets (based on a scientific sampling of 1 motor). And if there's any worry about illegal armatures, I can bring my winding resistance tester which can spot any motors that are "accidentally" short on windings. (Ask Dave J. if it works :devil: )


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## ksj44 (Nov 11, 2003)

scott, i can't believe you broke your car and i didn't get to help you do it. :lol: see you this weekend? later

keith


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## Xpressman (Dec 6, 2001)

kevinm said:


> How about a C1 with the ROAR legal cross-wrap arm? All my C1 arms wore out many years ago. I haven't noticed any meaningful performance difference between my old C1 motors and a C2. Just the luck of the draw which one runs better, though the C2 seems to have slightly stronger magnets (based on a scientific sampling of 1 motor). And if there's any worry about illegal armatures, I can bring my winding resistance tester which can spot any motors that are "accidentally" short on windings. (Ask Dave J. if it works :devil: )


I do believe that woudl be covered by no hybrids...which should be worded to mean no mixing between manufacturers as well as of the same manufacturer.


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## davidl (Jan 7, 2002)

Motor City Hamilton said:


> 19 turn, tagged arm, fixed timing and standard brush type. No V-brushes, no hand wound arms, no hybrids, no changing brush hoods to a different type than what comes with the motor and no swapping out magnets. For the cheaters out there, did I miss any of the standard cheater tricks?
> 
> Anyone know the issue with the old C1 motors? Seems like older technology would be slower anyway? I ask because I have one laying in the box from a couple of years ago.


Hi Keith. The only thing I think needs to be added is that ROAR rules for the super stock 19T is that the arm must be wound in Mabuchi cross-wrap style. The only arm I am aware that is this is the current C2 arm. ROAR has now approved the C2 for sanctioned racing. No other 19T motors have been submitted for approval. Hope that helps.


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## kevinm (Jan 16, 2002)

Xpressman said:


> I do believe that woudl be covered by no hybrids...which should be worded to mean no mixing between manufacturers as well as of the same manufacturer.


As far as I know, Trinity hasn't sold a replacement C1 arm for a long time, so there's no way I can NOT "mix" parts in 3 of my old C1 motors. Unless Keith wants to sell me his supposedly "crankable" C1 arm.


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## davidl (Jan 7, 2002)

I got an email from [email protected] and I can't open the message. If it was a reply to my post above, please resend the message to my email without using the HobbyTalk feature. My address is: [email protected]


Thx


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## kenb (Sep 28, 2001)

Any interest in that less popular, but more civilised 19 turn class with RUBBER?? (ducking) Dish? Fred?

Ken


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## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

I don't think some of the tracks will allow rubber tire racing on the carpet.

I'm pretty sure Josh's track is foam tire only, as is Hobby Hub.

-Rich


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## Motor City Hamilton (Feb 5, 2002)

I can make one definitive statement today. There will be no rubber tire classes in this season's CRL. Aren't we past the rubber tires on carpet discussion like two years ago? 

As for the 19 turn motor rules, what can we check while the motor is in the car, without tearing the motor down? Can a tech person see the cross wound part of the arm? Should we eliminate the C1 arms or just DQ if someone is caught with a twisted arm? I don't think I like the ROAR rule of limiting to just one motor. I also am thinking, "what's wrong with the v-brush motor?" We need a fair ruling, but lets not turn this into the nationals. Unless you'd prefer that we tear down the top 3 in the A or even top 3 in each class?

Also, I need photos of each manufacturers stock and 19 turn motors for the tech station. Anyone have the time to go search these out? I could use the help with that.


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## kevinm (Jan 16, 2002)

Motor City Hamilton said:


> As for the 19 turn motor rules, what can we check while the motor is in the car, without tearing the motor down? Can a tech person see the cross wound part of the arm? Should we eliminate the C1 arms or just DQ if someone is caught with a twisted arm? I don't think I like the ROAR rule of limiting to just one motor. I also am thinking, "what's wrong with the v-brush motor?"


Most (if not all) of the 19 turns have tags on the armature. The C1 & C2 and the old Silver Reedy had extended shafts at the brush end, the new quad-mag doesn't. Don't know about the other brands. Only Clark Kent could see the cross-wrap part of the motor without disassembly, and the Reedys aren't wound that way (unless they've recently changed).


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## Greg Anthony (Sep 10, 2002)

What about this?


*19Turn Motor Rules*
1. All must be 24deg locked endbell motors.
2. Laydown brushes only, no stand-up or "V" brushes
3. All Arms must be _tagged or stamped_ with "19T" and the motor manufacturer
4. No Hybrids. (ie. C1 arm in a C2 can, or Orion arm in a Trinity can)
5. If a motor is found to be illegal, you will be DQ'd from the class for that race, the motor will be confiscated by the CRL, entry will not be refunded, and you will get 0 points.

Legal Motor List:
Trinity Cameleon 2 
Reedy Quad Spec
Surge Atlas 19T
Corally 19 Spec
Orion Element (or the Peak motor)


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## walterhenderson (May 8, 2002)

Keith I can do better than a picture, I will provide you with a Reedy spec 19 motor for tech to use at each race.

Also the motors should have a tag not a stamp.

Walter


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## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

Great, and I just ordered a stamp kit. 



walterhenderson said:


> Also the motors should have a tag not a stamp.
> 
> Walter


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## Xpressman (Dec 6, 2001)

davidl said:


> Hi Keith. The only thing I think needs to be added is that ROAR rules for the super stock 19T is that the arm must be wound in Mabuchi cross-wrap style. The only arm I am aware that is this is the current C2 arm. ROAR has now approved the C2 for sanctioned racing. No other 19T motors have been submitted for approval. Hope that helps.


This series is not affliated with ROAR in any way and uses the main rules as a guideline only for racing. Therefore this should not be added and the current rules are fine as written. Plus this allows for more then one manufacturers motor would which will add to the racing of who cna get what to work better then others.


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## Xpressman (Dec 6, 2001)

Greg Anthony said:


> 5. If a motor is found to be illegal, you will be DQ'd from the class for that race, the motor will be confiscated by the CRL, entry will not be refunded, and you will get 0 points.


And may god have mercy on your soul.....


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## Xpressman (Dec 6, 2001)

Motor City Hamilton said:


> I
> As for the 19 turn motor rules, what can we check while the motor is in the car, without tearing the motor down? Can a tech person see the cross wound part of the arm? Should we eliminate the C1 arms or just DQ if someone is caught with a twisted arm? I don't think I like the ROAR rule of limiting to just one motor. I also am thinking, "what's wrong with the v-brush motor?" We need a fair ruling, but lets not turn this into the nationals. Unless you'd prefer that we tear down the top 3 in the A or even top 3 in each class?
> 
> QUOTE]
> ...


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## Aaron Bomia (Feb 14, 2002)

All this talk about legal motors makes me want to skip 19T and run mod....sheesh!


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## Xpressman (Dec 6, 2001)

Here are links to all of the above mentioned motors:

Team Orion Element (picture shows stand-up endbell)
http://www.teamorion.com/products/motors_spec.asp

Peak Performance Dynasty (picture shows V2 endbell)
http://www.peakmotors.com/Machine+Wound+Motors/Dynasty+V2

Corally Black 19t
http://www.corallyusa.com/2005/motors.htm

Reedy Spec 19t
http://www.rc10.com/shusting/CatalogHub/reedy/new/stock_motors.htm#Spec

Team Trinity Chamelon 2
http://www.teamtrinity.com/motors/19_turn_machinewound.html

Matrix V10r 19s Spec Racing motor (same as Atlas). I could not find a pic of the motor as an Atlas but this is the SAME motor as the Atlas.
http://integy.automated-shops.com/cgi-bin/webc.cgi/st_prod.html?p_prodid=1975&p_catid=27&sid=4wSJJh1Fj5507AX-13105017221.83

I also found this motor on the Matrix webpage which appears to be the same thing as the Reedy Quad 19t but has the smaller 7.5mm standard size comm. DOES NOT SAY IT IS LOCKED AT 24 DEG. TIMING SO I DON'T KNOW IF IT IS A FIXED ENDBELL.
http://integy.automated-shops.com/cgi-bin/webc.cgi/st_prod.html?p_prodid=2477&p_catid=27&sid=4wSJJh1Fj5507AX-13105017221.83

Also Team Checkpoint now has their 19t spec motor out.
http://www2.omnimodels.com/cgi-bin/wOi0001p?&I=ODOC0491&P=0


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## Xpressman (Dec 6, 2001)

Aaron Bomia said:


> All this talk about legal motors makes me want to skip 19T and run mod....sheesh!


The Bomia, the voice of reason.


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## mcsquish (Jan 31, 2003)

Brian, I guess you haven't found that job yet. :devil: 

Why do you think people refer to 19T as the same as stock, but faster? Motors are still a pain in the butt.


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## Xpressman (Dec 6, 2001)

mcsquish said:


> Brian, I guess you haven't found that job yet. :devil:
> 
> Why do you think people refer to 19T as the same as stock, but faster? Motors are still a pain in the butt.


Am I suppose to answer. Well maybe you need to hirer a mechanic to tune your motors?


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## HookupsXXX4 (Dec 4, 2003)

Is there going to be any pre-entries for the CRL? 

Jerry
************
MAXAMPS.COM


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## mcsquish (Jan 31, 2003)

No Brian I was refering to all of the talk about what is leagal and what isn't. Why are you offering? All I do is put brushes in and true it once in a while.


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## Xpressman (Dec 6, 2001)

mcsquish said:


> No Brian I was refering to all of the talk about what is leagal and what isn't. Why are you offering? All I do is put brushes in and true it once in a while.


But are they new brushes????


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## mcsquish (Jan 31, 2003)

Dam, I knew I forgot something. Does that matter?


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## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

I find that if I leave my brushes outside exposed to the elements, they work really well - especially in wintertime when it snows and the salt trucks come around. The salt crusts up on the brushes and increase conduction (remember those science experiments where we'd pass electricity through a salt solution compared to regular tap water?). Great, I just gave up a speed secret...

-Rich


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## Motor City Hamilton (Feb 5, 2002)

I like Greg's 19turn rule list except for confiscating motors. I don't want to be responsible for taking peoples stuff. A harsh penalty may be in order. Let's dock 1 lap from their best qualifying run if caught with an illegal motor in qualifying. For mains, you'll lose all laps/time and all points. Thoughts???

Oh... no pre-registration for the CRL. Josh did say that he could start entering people into the computer if he had your information. If you want to post here the classes you intend to run, cool. All payment will happen at the track on Saturday morning. I'll start.

Keith Hamilton, 1/12th stock & 1/12th 19-turn, freq. 5, 2 or 4, personal transponder number n/a.

Mcsquishy or Josh - are you thinking of doing a Friday night practice session?


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## Greg Anthony (Sep 10, 2002)

Greg Anthony, TC MOD & 1/12th MOD, 89, 69, and 70 will give personal's at the track.


Keith, you need a Personal, I have one for you, at least to borrow for the season... we'll talk


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## rcnutmich (Dec 7, 2004)

Roy Hurst TC Stock Class--freq. synth. pt # have to get


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## rctazmanmc (Oct 8, 2001)

Anyone have links to the other tracks so we can see what they are like?

Jerry - it is going to be good to get back into racing!!!

mc


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## mcsquish (Jan 31, 2003)

Keith, I will ask Josh about Friday evening. Also I think we will have house transponders that weekend.

Thanks for letting us know your information. It will make Sat. morning go easier.


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## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

Rich Chang

1/12th stock: 80, 70 - 5050165

1/12th 19-turn: 80, 70 - 4456720


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## rcsilly (Jul 30, 2002)

Bob Cates stock 1/12th 86 alt 88 84 pt # 2422923


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## mcsquish (Jan 31, 2003)

This just in - I am talking to Josh, and he will be open next Friday for practice.


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## Greg Anthony (Sep 10, 2002)

sweet...


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## Motor City Hamilton (Feb 5, 2002)

I might be able to make the Friday night practice. The wife has an exam at school on Saturday and she'd probably want me out of her hair on Friday night too. I need the practice. All races are now on my calendar so I will be at all of them.

Greg - I may be interested in buying the personal transponder from you if you're looking to sell one.


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## Greg Anthony (Sep 10, 2002)

Keith, call me....


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## pimpedaccord (Nov 1, 2001)

Giant Loser Goon - 
12th mod #5 5086375
TC mod #4 9174123


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## Xpressman (Dec 6, 2001)

All these guys running mod...hmmmmm....what class will DaveJ run?????


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## Tim Stamper (May 22, 2002)

Xpressman said:


> All these guys running mod...hmmmmm....what class will DaveJ run?????


44 turn lathe motor rubber tire.

Tim


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## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

The motor is fine, but the tires are not. Keith said no rubber tires.


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## mcsquish (Jan 31, 2003)

Jeff, we already have that inromation in the computer. But we didn't use goon.


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## Fred B (Sep 26, 2001)

I think we should have a dustbuster race...


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## Tigger (Oct 28, 2002)

Fred B said:


> I think we should have a dustbuster race...


Now that would really suck. :lol:


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## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

Belt sander races are a lot better because if the belf sander jumps the track, someone gets their face ground off or loses a knee. So, excitement all around!

-Rich




Fred B said:


> I think we should have a dustbuster race...


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## Greg Anthony (Sep 10, 2002)

Fred, do they still make those things?


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## Xpressman (Dec 6, 2001)

Fred B said:


> I think we should have a dustbuster race...


HAHAHAHA

On TLC or the Discovery Channel they had soem shows about the annual Power Tool Drag races awhile back. I think the duster busters were rather slow. But no one used a dremal.


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## Xpressman (Dec 6, 2001)

Rich Chang said:


> Belt sander races are a lot better because if the belf sander jumps the track, someone gets their face ground off or loses a knee. So, excitement all around!
> 
> -Rich


After seeing this comment on another thread:

You have to understand - us asian folk are just a bunch of perverts. I mean, why else would there be a billion of us running around the earth and why we were getting paid _not_ to have kids? 

-Rich

And then reading what Rich wrote hear I think demented fits much better then perverts.


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## Motor City Hamilton (Feb 5, 2002)

Does anyone have a box of non raced, unmached batteries laying around? Like a set of unmatched 2000's. Maybe we could do a handout battery and handout motor race for the fun run.


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## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

Maybe Josh has some old, unused stuff laying around?

I can see if i can get some bodies donated for the fun run. Did you want me to do that?

-Rich


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## Motor City Hamilton (Feb 5, 2002)

Should the bodies be something fun? Like Honda Civics or something?


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## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

We were thinking old school hot-rod types.

-Rich


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## Greg Anthony (Sep 10, 2002)

Motor City Hamilton said:


> Should the bodies be something fun? Like Honda Civics or something?


No, you can use the honda body and a stock motor, we can all use Neon bodies and 19t's, then that will be fun  or will that be too much of a flashback moment for you?


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## Motor City Hamilton (Feb 5, 2002)

Rules check. Did I capture everything? I think the V-brush motors should be allowed, but still no hybrids, including end bells. I'd like to keep photos of each motor at the tech table. Your thoughts?


*Motor Rules*

Stock Motors: ROAR approved machine wound 27 turn and 24 degree locked end bell motors only. Factory 27 turn tag must be in-place and visible through motor vent holes. No hybrid motors (example: Monster arm or Monster end bell with Green Machine can). No “twisting” of the armature to increase or decrease timing. Must use stock magnets as shipped with the can from the factory.



19 turn Motors: Machine wound 19 turn and 24 degree locked end bell motors only. 

Factory 19 turn tag must be in-place and visible through motor vent holes. No hybrid motors (example: C1 arm in a C2 can, or Orion end bell on a Trinity can). No “twisting” of the armature to increase or decrease timing. Must use stock magnets as shipped with the can from the factory.



Modified Motors: ROAR approved modified motors only. No brushless motors of any kind. No Kobalt or other kind of rare earth magnets.



Any participant caught using an illegal motor in a qualifying event will lose one lap from their best qualifying run. Use of an illegal motor in a main event will result in disqualification and loss of finishing position and all main event points.


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## Motor City Hamilton (Feb 5, 2002)

Rich - once we have the wording correct on the motor rules, I'll have six pages of rules for the CRL. That's right, six pages of rules that come from 3 years of CRL experience trying to catch cheaters. I'll send them to you in Microsoft Word for the CRL website. 

Anyone remember the touring car bumper controversy (now must drop at least 1/4" in a horizontal direction)? And Walt's convertible? The measuring of the ride height bar to tell me that it was 0.125 and not exactly 3mm. The scale now gets a new battery before every event. What about the 17 turn double arm in the Monster stock can (and the guy denied it to the end even though we could see two wires connecting to each pole on the arm).


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## Greg Anthony (Sep 10, 2002)

Wow...

Don't forget the no White body rule...


----------



## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

There should be a rule in there that a racer cannot bench press more than 300 pounds, or whatever it is that Aaron bench presses.

-Rich


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## Greg Anthony (Sep 10, 2002)

I just want to see the look on Aaron's face at Cleveland this year when Ian asked him another Million times how much he benches....


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## Xpressman (Dec 6, 2001)

Just so everyone knows that the Epic Binary stock motor is ROAR approved now. This is the one with 2 magnets NOT the quad can.

WING
Chord Maximum 40 mm​Side dam length Maximum 40 mm​Side dam height Maximum 20 mm​Width Maximum 190 mm​​​No part of the wing may extend above the roofline of the body.​​GROUND CLEARENCE​​​Carpet surfaces: Minimum 4 mm for foam tires​​BODY HEIGHT(with chassis on 20mm blocks)​Maximum 190 mm​Minimum 130 mm​
The rear of the body may not be cut higher than 55mm above the measuring surface with the chassis resting on 20mm blocks.​​WEIGHT​Minimum –Foam Tires 1418 g (converted to ounces 50.02704)​​This is all cut and pasted from the ROAR rule book and I think covers everything but stupidity of using a 17x2 arm in a monster can.​
​


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## kevinm (Jan 16, 2002)

Motor City Hamilton said:


> ...
> 
> Modified Motors: ROAR approved modified motors only. *No brushless motors of any kind.* No Kobalt or other kind of rare earth magnets.


You just gave me a reason not to come (and maybe Walt, too). Brushless motors *ARE* ROAR-legal in modified class.


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## Hustler (Feb 1, 2004)

Motor City Hamilton said:


> Does anyone have a box of non raced, unmached batteries laying around? Like a set of unmatched 2000's. Maybe we could do a handout battery and handout motor race for the fun run.


We have a pretty wild "fun run" class idea started in FTW already. Don't worry, it isn't anything we are currently doing. I'll talk to you about it in Toledo...

-Sean


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## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

I am pretty sure he meant no brushless in the mod motor class. 

If there are enough folks with brushless, they will run in their own class.

-Rich




kevinm said:


> You just gave me a reason not to come (and maybe Walt, too). Brushless motors *ARE* ROAR-legal in modified class.


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## Motor City Hamilton (Feb 5, 2002)

kevinm said:


> You just gave me a reason not to come (and maybe Walt, too). Brushless motors *ARE* ROAR-legal in modified class.


Kevin - Brushless will run in their own modified class, if you have 5 or more entries. Brushless will be it's own class if you can get enough people to support it. Does ROAR let them run together? How do they police the rules with brushless? It seems to me that brushed and brushless should be their own classes. I could be convinced otherwise if I'm wrong, but what do we do with tech?


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## Xpressman (Dec 6, 2001)

Motor City Hamilton said:


> Kevin - Brushless will run in their own modified class, if you have 5 or more entries. Brushless will be it's own class if you can get enough people to support it. Does ROAR let them run together? How do they police the rules with brushless? It seems to me that brushed and brushless should be their own classes. I could be convinced otherwise if I'm wrong, but what do we do with tech?


Well at On-road Nats this year they ran with modified. At Oval Nats this year they ran in there own class. Also Cleveland is NOT allowing brushless this year.

Also the Reedy NEO as well as the Novak 1050 Tearddown (4300 and 5800) and Novak Velociti are ROAR approved.


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## rcnutmich (Dec 7, 2004)

any crl racers going to halo this weekend for practice ??????????????


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## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

Fred Baumgartner, Aaron Bomia, Jeff Miles, Danny Miles, and I will be there on Sunday. Hopefully it will just be a practice day.

-Rich


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## Motor City Hamilton (Feb 5, 2002)

I heard that there is a group going on Saturday for club racing, too.


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## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

Keith,

One rule I am not fond of is the 3mm ride height check *after* the race. At all the big races I've gone to, ride height was always checked *before* the race. Weight was checked before and after.

-Rich


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## kevinm (Jan 16, 2002)

Motor City Hamilton said:


> Kevin - Brushless will run in their own modified class, if you have 5 or more entries. Brushless will be it's own class if you can get enough people to support it. Does ROAR let them run together? How do they police the rules with brushless? It seems to me that brushed and brushless should be their own classes. I could be convinced otherwise if I'm wrong, but what do we do with tech?


The exact wording from the rulebook is:
*"For Modified Electric Classes current rules will now include brushless with the following rules:"*
*(it then describes in excruciating detail brushless motor specs)*
 



*This seems to me like a pretty clear statement that Modified includes brushless. It does not say anywhere that brushless is a separate class, and I doubt if there will be enough to make a separate class anyway. ​*


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## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

To elaborate, tire wear could have been more than expected, and also, there is the big factor of a car getting hit and something getting knocked loose - such as batteries (or something else) in a 1/12th car which could make the batteries (or whatever else) be lower than legal.

-Rich




Rich Chang said:


> Keith,
> 
> One rule I am not fond of is the 3mm ride height check *after* the race. At all the big races I've gone to, ride height was always checked *before* the race. Weight was checked before and after.
> 
> -Rich


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## Greg Anthony (Sep 10, 2002)

Gentlemen, please remember, the CRL is not a ROAR sanctioned series, it you want to nit-pictk and use EVERY ROAR rule, that means you will be paying the $35 extra to get your ROAR membership and EVERY track will have to be a member as well. The series rules are made by the management of the series and there are some rules that will not be the same as any you use anywhere else, and some may be identicle.


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## Hustler (Feb 1, 2004)

Greg Anthony said:


> ...some rules that will not be the same as any you use anywhere else, and some may be identicle.


Just like your spelling? :tongue: j/k...

-Sean


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## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

I'm not sure if that was directed at me also, but my question about ride height has nothing to do with ROAR or whatever other organization and it surely wasn't nit-picking.

-Rich




Greg Anthony said:


> Gentlemen, please remember, the CRL is not a ROAR sanctioned series, it you want to nit-pictk and use EVERY ROAR rule, that means you will be paying the $35 extra to get your ROAR membership and EVERY track will have to be a member as well.


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## Motor City Hamilton (Feb 5, 2002)

Brushless: True Greg, the CRL is not a ROAR event, so we can deviate from the ROAR rules where we want. What I want to avoid is allowing brushless to run in Mod, seeing the brushless beat the brushed and then having the brushed mod racers saying that they have to buy a $200 brushless system to be competitive. Is that the case with brushless or are they slower anyway? The CRL is also not a national caliber event, so if some classes don't have enough support, then maybe they should be club classes for the time being? I don't run mod so I'm not sure how to rule on this one. More opinions?

Post race ride height: We currently don't do pre-race tech, leaving it to the racer to check their weight and ride height on their own time and responsibility. It is their responsibility to be legal after the race. I guess if the car comes off the track low, then it wasn't legal on the last lap of the race??? That's one side of that coin. For touring, this shouldn't be an issue since the bar is 3mm, which is lower than ROAR. No touring car should have a problem making 3mm after the race. For 1/12th, the tech guys would let battery tape pass, but not chassis material or a hanging screw. If a car broke an a-arm or the batteries came loose and were hanging, it would not be dq'd for height - he's already got enough trouble. Maybe we should do 2mm for 1/12th after the race. Noone should be that low. To get dq'd, you'd really have to be cutting it too close. Your thoughts???


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## Greg Anthony (Sep 10, 2002)

finally someone get's it!


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## kevinm (Jan 16, 2002)

Keith - From my experience (and dyno testing), the Novak 5.5 and Reedy Neo One perform about like a 9-turn. Most of the guys running brushed motors last year were using 8-turns (or less, in Walt's case  ). The Novak 5800 is closer to a 13-14 turn, and the 4300 runs like a 19-turn.


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## R Monahan (Jan 31, 2005)

greg can you call me at riders hobby shop in livonia.


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## rcnutmich (Dec 7, 2004)

Rich Chang said:


> Fred Baumgartner, Aaron Bomia, Jeff Miles, Danny Miles, and I will be there on Sunday. Hopefully it will just be a practice day.
> 
> -Rich


ANY CAR POOLING GOING ON ? GAS WENT UP AGAIN


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## rcnutmich (Dec 7, 2004)

*To Much Bull Shit*



Motor City Hamilton said:


> Brushless: True Greg, the CRL is not a ROAR event, so we can deviate from the ROAR rules where we want. What I want to avoid is allowing brushless to run in Mod, seeing the brushless beat the brushed and then having the brushed mod racers saying that they have to buy a $200 brushless system to be competitive. Is that the case with brushless or are they slower anyway? The CRL is also not a national caliber event, so if some classes don't have enough support, then maybe they should be club classes for the time being? I don't run mod so I'm not sure how to rule on this one. More opinions?
> 
> Post race ride height: We currently don't do pre-race tech, leaving it to the racer to check their weight and ride height on their own time and responsibility. It is their responsibility to be legal after the race. I guess if the car comes off the track low, then it wasn't legal on the last lap of the race??? That's one side of that coin. For touring, this shouldn't be an issue since the bar is 3mm, which is lower than ROAR. No touring car should have a problem making 3mm after the race. For 1/12th, the tech guys would let battery tape pass, but not chassis material or a hanging screw. If a car broke an a-arm or the batteries came loose and were hanging, it would not be dq'd for height - he's already got enough trouble. Maybe we should do 2mm for 1/12th after the race. Noone should be that low. To get dq'd, you'd really have to be cutting it too close. Your thoughts???



MY HATS OF TO YOU MOTOR CITY..


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## pimpedaccord (Nov 1, 2001)

Motor City Hamilton said:


> Brushless: True Greg, the CRL is not a ROAR event, so we can deviate from the ROAR rules where we want. What I want to avoid is allowing brushless to run in Mod, seeing the brushless beat the brushed and then having the brushed mod racers saying that they have to buy a $200 brushless system to be competitive. Is that the case with brushless or are they slower anyway? The CRL is also not a national caliber event, so if some classes don't have enough support, then maybe they should be club classes for the time being? I don't run mod so I'm not sure how to rule on this one. More opinions?


Sounds like Greg's skeeeeered of the brushless!!!!! 

Looks like we have more people that will run brushless than brushed? Mine is definitely not as good as a 7x1 I bought last saturday, but it's easier cause I'm fat and lazy.


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## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

Nope, a 1/12th car can be legal before race ride height wise, and not be after the race. At Cleveland in past years, my car was always at the legal ride height before the race, but it was not after the race at the middle of the chassis due to tire wear. However, they only checked ride height before the race.

Also, I've finished qualifiers and races with batteries hanging off the side of my car after getting whacked by someone and the battery O-ring popping off.

And, since there is a points system, finishing the main even if the batteries are knocked loose is in one's best interest. However, b/c they are hanging loose, the car will most likely not pass "race tech" in regards to height.

Anyways, I've never been DQ'd for a ride height problem in past CRL races. All I was just saying is that I am not a fan of the "check ride height after the race and not before."

-Rich




Motor City Hamilton said:


> Post race ride height: We currently don't do pre-race tech, leaving it to the racer to check their weight and ride height on their own time and responsibility. It is their responsibility to be legal after the race. I guess if the car comes off the track low, then it wasn't legal on the last lap of the race??? That's one side of that coin. For touring, this shouldn't be an issue since the bar is 3mm, which is lower than ROAR. No touring car should have a problem making 3mm after the race. For 1/12th, the tech guys would let battery tape pass, but not chassis material or a hanging screw. If a car broke an a-arm or the batteries came loose and were hanging, it would not be dq'd for height - he's already got enough trouble. Maybe we should do 2mm for 1/12th after the race. Noone should be that low. To get dq'd, you'd really have to be cutting it too close. Your thoughts???


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## kevinm (Jan 16, 2002)

pimpedaccord said:


> Sounds like Greg's skeeeeered of the brushless!!!!!
> 
> Looks like we have more people that will run brushless than brushed? Mine is definitely not as good as a 7x1 I bought last saturday, but it's easier cause I'm fat and lazy.


Or maybe he's bummed that none of his sponsors make brushless. :jest: (Actually, from his posts so far, I'm not sure what his opinion really is.)

Are there a lot of people planning on racing brushless? I'm definitely NOT going to drive 3 hours (one way) and pay a motel bill based on the _possibility_ of running modified.


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## pimpedaccord (Nov 1, 2001)

Rich Chang said:


> Nope, a 1/12th car can be legal before race ride height wise, and not be after the race. At Cleveland in past years, my car was always at the legal ride height before the race, but it was not after the race at the middle of the chassis due to tire wear. However, they only checked ride height before the race.
> -Rich


Basically the only purpose of a ride height rule is to protect the carpet. I think you should have a post-race rule so none of the tracks' carpet gets torn up. Start 1mm higher if your tires wear that much, lol.


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## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

If the purpose of the ride height rule is to protect the carpet, then why is the body shell on the TCs allowed to be below the 3mm minimum?

Per the TC ride height rules:

"For touring cars, all parts of the car must clear the bar except for the tires/wheels and body. "

Moreover, how do I know if my tires are only going to wear 1mm? An ill-handling car can wear tires very quickly - espeically in mod. So, because I drove my car hard I should get penalized because my tires wore faster than I expected and now I'm below minimum ride height?

Also, if anyone tells me that ride height doesn't matter whether it is TC or 1/12th (especially a 1mm difference), I'll ask you to say that to any factory driver and see what their response is.

Might as well return the minimum ride height to be 5mm for TC, and make it the same for 1/12th. There's no difference in handling, right?

-Rich


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## rcnutmich (Dec 7, 2004)

*car pooling to halo*



rcnutmich said:


> ANY CAR POOLING GOING ON ? GAS WENT UP AGAIN


 cory and i plan on going to halo sunday for practice, i have a suburban if any one wants to car pool..i will be leaving from brighton, going through ann/ypsi area..lmk


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## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

That's really cool to offer!  

-Rich



rcnutmich said:


> cory and i plan on going to halo sunday for practice, i have a suburban if any one wants to car pool..i will be leaving from brighton, going through ann/ypsi area..lmk


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## rcnutmich (Dec 7, 2004)

Rich Chang said:


> That's really cool to offer!
> 
> -Rich


thanks, just dont spread the word that im a nice guy tho.....lol


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## rcnutmich (Dec 7, 2004)

rcnutmich said:


> cory and i plan on going to halo sunday for practice, i have a suburban if any one wants to car pool..i will be leaving from brighton, going through ann/ypsi area..lmk



i plan on leaving brighton at 9am tomorrow


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## Motor City Hamilton (Feb 5, 2002)

Rich - I'm with you on the ride height thing for 1/12th scale. It's hard to keep a 1/12th scale at 4mm for more than a couple of runs - always adjusting the adjusters. And, it's not like a touring car where you can just turn a threaded shock body a couple of turns. The front end needs shims, the the camber needs to be reset - it's a huge pain. I have be DQ'd in my own series, the CRL for 1/12th scale ride height. Actually I have been DQ'd twice and I think once was by Kropy and the other was by McNish? 

The reason for ride height is to save the carpet from dragging screws and to save the timing loop. Touring cars at 3mm shouldn't be a big issue becasue they all run pretty well at 4 to 5mm anyway. The suspension geometry was designed at 5mm, too. And, it's easy to adjust the height. Bodies can click the scoring loop and not break it. I don't rememeber seeing a rule in the ROAR book that included the body so that's why I left it out for the CRL. We could do bodies, but we do see the fronts of bodies get beat up pretty badly during races. 

Most timing loops are under 2mm. I purchased a 2.5mm bar last night to use for 1/12th scale tech. We still need to do tech after, because we don't have the time in the race day to do both pre and post tech like the nats. Everyone would need to be in tech two races early and that's hard to do running multiple classes plus marshaling. Exclusions from the bar are the spur gear, body, battery tape and broken parts. A knocked loose battery will pass, but not a secured battery that was just too low to begin with because a guy filed too much out of his battery slots. A battery isn't likely to cut the loop or rip the carpet. Screws and chassis material that touch the 2.5mm bar will be DQ'd. At 2.5mm I feel better about dqing someone than if the chassis just barely touches at 3mm, like happened to me twice at the CRLs. And I'm sure I was on a TQ run both times. :lol:


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## pimpedaccord (Nov 1, 2001)

Rich Chang said:


> Also, if anyone tells me that ride height doesn't matter whether it is TC or 1/12th (especially a 1mm difference), I'll ask you to say that to any factory driver and see what their response is.
> 
> Might as well return the minimum ride height to be 5mm for TC, and make it the same for 1/12th. There's no difference in handling, right?
> 
> -Rich


If it's the same for everyone, what does it matter? I just hate to see any of the tracks carpet get torn up. I suck anyways, so don't ask me, lol.


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## Xpressman (Dec 6, 2001)

IFMAR rules check the ride height after the races so you have to setup up accordingly.


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## rcnutmich (Dec 7, 2004)

rich how do you get to halos from ann arbor ? 23 south till ? to where?
i have directions from i75 but that would be kinda going out of the way


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## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

Keith - no prob and yep, I understand. I was just concerned with not passing tech with me running 19-turn/mod this year if my car is a total pile and I burn the foam off the rims and also I knock stuff loose from hitting too many walls. lol!

Pimped - har har. if you suck, then I must REALLY suck! Anyways, again, it was an issue with an ill-handling car that chews through tires faster than one expected. But, I have said my bit and this is no longer an issue for me.

RCNut - I'll give you the straight forward route. I normally take a back-roads route once I get into Ohio. 

- US-23 south into Ohio
- I-475 East (left hand exit)
- I-75 North (left hand exit) -- yes, North
- I-280 South
- Take that to Woodville Exit (I think it is exit 7?)
- Turn left on Woodville
- Go down about a mile (be careful once you cross back over I-280 b/c they have traffic cameras set up for speeders and red-light runners)
- Woodville Mall will be on your left
- Go around to the left of the mall to the back-side

From the US-23/I-94 interchange, it is about a 45 minute drive.

-Rich


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## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

Bummer! Guess, I better start at 10mm ride height then.

-Rich



Xpressman said:


> IFMAR rules check the ride height after the races so you have to setup up accordingly.


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## rcnutmich (Dec 7, 2004)

thanks rich, c u in the am


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## pimpedaccord (Nov 1, 2001)

Rich Chang said:


> Bummer! Guess, I better start at 10mm ride height then.
> 
> -Rich


We could probly find some purple rears for you?? LOL See you next saturday!


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## Ted Flack (Sep 26, 2001)

Xpressman said:


> IFMAR rules check the ride height after the races so you have to setup up accordingly.


I have this crazy idea...since the series is not run by IFMAR or ROAR rules and since everyone seems to agree that tearing up the carpet is the major issue (I think) how about asking Josh what he wants to do! I seem to remember Larry had a different idea about ride height several years ago. I will miss most of the races so I don't really care, just thought I might add a comment after reading several pages about rules for this "Fun" series.


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## Xpressman (Dec 6, 2001)

Ted Flack said:


> ! I seem to remember Larry had a different idea about ride height several years ago.


Ted,

I finally remembered what Larry did. He would pick a car up off the track and if the chassis had black marks from rubbing the carpet you were DQed. I think this was way back when we only ran rubber tires and all the series races he would do on sunday.


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## Motor City Hamilton (Feb 5, 2002)

Ted Flack said:


> after reading several pages about rules for this "Fun" series.


Isn't it a shame what some racers will go through to get an advantage. The only reason we had to put so many rules in writing is because either someone would break a rule or then complain because a rule wasn't written down. So... now 6 pages of rules. 99% of which should be common sense anyway. 

Speaking of rules, Ted, didn't Evernham get fined a couple of times this year? Racers will always look for ways to stretch the rules. 

You should see my SCCA rule book. Well over 1,000 pages.


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## Ted Flack (Sep 26, 2001)

Motor City Hamilton said:


> Speaking of rules, Ted, didn't Evernham get fined a couple of times this year? Racers will always look for ways to stretch the rules.
> 
> YA well whatever...I guess I really don't give a rats a-- what Ray Evernham does!!! And by the way they are racing for a five milion dollar purse at the end of their series, I think they are second to SCCA, but it is a lot of money.


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## Tim Stamper (May 22, 2002)

It's just weird to tech after a race. Tech before, if someone decided to run 10 shore tires that wear 5mm per run, they will have a car that handles like poop anyways.

I don't know, I was also DQ'd once for ride height, and it sucks. The chassis barely touched the bar in one corner. I like the idea of the 2.5mm though. I run 4mm 12th scale and 4.5mm TC. 

Too many rules make the event drag on. In normal non-roar races(IIC, Cleveland), they tech before. Why, it pushes people through and there's no bottleneck. Sometimes they look at motors when they are sitting on the table. Who cares how the car comes off, because it will be back up to proper height at the start of the next race.

The only problem that I see is that I know for a fact that the "rules" debate is already turning people away that just want to have fun and race with some friends.

Tim


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## Xpressman (Dec 6, 2001)

Keith,

Throwout the current rules you have wrote. And follow NASCAR and go with this rule:

Actions detremental to the CRL will be penalized.


I agree with having a set of rules as it keeps everyone in check. The biggest thing is guys running 23t or 17X2 motors in stock and the VERY illegal, really obvious stuff.


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## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

That's funny! 

-Rich




Xpressman said:


> Keith,
> 
> Throwout the current rules you have wrote. And follow NASCAR and go with this rule:
> 
> Actions detremental to the CRL will be penalized.


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## Hustler (Feb 1, 2004)

Alright, enough about all of this silly rules-type stuff. Let's get to the really important issue. Is there a bar in or near the Mall or do we have to tailgate it???  


-Sean


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## Motor City Hamilton (Feb 5, 2002)

Tim Stamper said:


> The only problem that I see is that I know for a fact that the "rules" debate is already turning people away that just want to have fun and race with some friends.
> 
> Tim


Two things. I hope that noone sees the CRL rules discussion as a debate. I really don't see anyone getting tempers up over the rules - just offering their thoughts and feelings about them. That's totally cool with me. I like to hear all sides of an issue before making decisions. Bottom line is that we do need rules because racers will stretch the limits. If we don't have rules, then let's not race. Let's just get together and practice together, once a month. The last time we raced the CRL we had complaints that the rules weren't strict enough and weren't posted for racers to see. So, now they are clearly written and will be posted on the website and in tech all year. That's the most fair thing to do.

Second, racers can always find reasons not to go to a race. Not just R/C racers either. In SCCA I saw posts on the forums about sound rules or the scales there are lighter than at my home track or the pit space is smaller than Mid-Ohio. Forums just attrack this type of comment from people with concerns. For the CRL, we have now seen it listed that people won't come because of too many rules, no brushless class and if a track that I don't like gets a race or a track that I like doesn't get a race, I won't be there. That's fine - everyone is entitled to their own thoughts about the way things go, but often there isn't anyone posting the positive things. Hustler is on the right track, lets start discussing all the fun things that go along with racing at the CRL. I really love organizing and racing in this series. If there is anyone out there who isn't sure about coming to the first CRL for any reason, feel free to call me at 810-610-6050 or e-mail me at [email protected] . I will honestly answer any of your concerns and let you know what I love about racing it.

Sincerely,
Keith


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## Motor City Hamilton (Feb 5, 2002)

Here are the 2004 Top 10's. Does anyone rememer the dodgeball tournament at the Homer CRL? That little 9 year old, Cory, can throw pretty hard. I think I owe him one back... like a dodge ball to the head.  

*1/12th Stock 2004*
1Ron Ferguson
2Greg Anthony
3Rich Chang
4Lee Harpe
5Fred Baumgartner
6Keith Hamilton
7Bob Cates
8Tim Stamper
9Tracey Fogelson
10Brad Baker

*Touring Stock 2004*
1Jeff Switzer
2Greg Anthony
3Gixer Jay
4Rick Monahan
5Rich Chang
6Derek Manchester
7James Reilly
8Steven Tenniswood
9Frank Duffner
10William Sexton

*Sedan Modified 2004*
1 JACOB DELANO
2 Gixer Jay
3 Dan Miles
4 Josh Cyrul
5 Terry Rott
6 Walter Henderson
7 Jeff Switzer
8 Mark Adams
9 RICH MARTSOLF
10 Ben Puterbaugh


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## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

There is a Greek restaurant in the mall that has a bar. I think they would GLADLY welcome the business. 

That mall is huuuuurting! 

-Rich




Hustler said:


> Alright, enough about all of this silly rules-type stuff. Let's get to the really important issue. Is there a bar in or near the Mall or do we have to tailgate it???
> 
> 
> -Sean


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## Motor City Hamilton (Feb 5, 2002)

I just looked back through the 1/12th scale mains from the 2004 CRL (all of my clients are in Vegas this week, so I've got a somewhat slow morning  ). Rich Chang TQ'ed 3 of the 4 events from 2003/2004. The only one he didn't TQ was the one that he missed due to a wife's car accident. Rich won two of those events. The other two went to Ron Ferguson along with the TQ for the race that Rich missed. Greg Anthony finished in the middle of the pack in every A-main, but that consistency put him in a tie with Rich for 2nd place overall. The rest of us 1/12th scalers were all chasing 3rd... which I would have had... if my car hadn't lost it's weight in the main at Homer and left me DQ'd.


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## Greg Anthony (Sep 10, 2002)

Everyone, just to put the rules into perspective, Keith did het DQ'd a couple times for ride heigth and weight in 2004.... and he got DQ'd at Homer and that cost him 3rd in the points, he got bumped back to 6th....


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## Greg Anthony (Sep 10, 2002)

Keith, I won at Homer.....


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## Hustler (Feb 1, 2004)

Motor City Hamilton said:


> Hustler is on the right track...


 LOL! That's gotta' be a first


Motor City Hamilton said:


> ...feel free to call me at 810-610-XXXX


...and another number to add to the bathroom walls, "This is the number for a guy from Nantucket..."


Rich Chang said:


> There is a Greek restaurant in the mall that has a bar. I think they would GLADLY welcome the business.


Super cool, thanks Rich. We'll have a good time, whether we run well or not...

-Sean


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## Motor City Hamilton (Feb 5, 2002)

Greg - huh...you are correct. Ron TQ'd that event and you won it.


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## Hustler (Feb 1, 2004)

Greg, you have PM.


-Sean


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## Motor City Hamilton (Feb 5, 2002)

2002/2003 Season top 10's. Remember the touring stock class A-mains with like 7 all white cars in it? Turn one pile up and who's driving what car? People joked about adding a rule of "no one color cars." It was never inforced, but it was funny.

*1/18th Scale 2003*
James Reilly
Ken Bates
Jim Thompson
Bob Reilly
John Colosky
Tim Waaso
Fred Baumgartner
Bud Bartos
Rich Ottinger
Don Smolik

*1/12th Stock 2003*
Chuck Lonergan
Rich Chang
Ron Ferguson
Lee Harpe
Greg Anthony
Terry Rott
Clayton White
Russ Rayden
Fred Baumgartner
Ken Bates

*Touring Stock 2003*
Walter Henderson
Aaron Bomia
Terry Rott
Chuck Lonergan
Dave Johnson
Rich Chang
Keith Hamilton
Derek Manchester
Jeff Cook
Greg Anthony

*Sedan 19 turn 2003*
Keith Hamilton
Jeff Cook
Steven Tenniswood
Rick Bol
Mark Rodney
Ben Puterbaugh
Tim Stamper
Nick Bol
Chris Haenlien
Mike Vasilion


----------



## rcsilly (Jul 30, 2002)

so thats why he is lowering the bar  .......... shoulda , woulda , coulda ...... no excuses DQ is DQ , sorry about your luck  
So in a condensed form , the 3 simple rules are ?

Ride Height = 3mm before or after or both ?
Weight = 1/12th 28 .7 oz with PT ? TC 52.7 ? w/pt
Stock Motor = 27t no "frankenmotors "


----------



## Motor City Hamilton (Feb 5, 2002)

2001/2002 Season top 10's. Finally I get to post some results with my name higher in the points than Greg Anthony. Geeze... I gotta practice more.

*1/18th Scale 2002*
James Reilly
Fred Baumgartner
Bud Bartos
Rich Chang
Greg Anthony
Bob Reilly
Keith Hamilton
Anthony Jr. Avallone
Dave Johnson
Steve Tenniswood

*1/12th Stock 2002*
Ron Ferguson
Rich Chang
Lee Harpe
Keith Hamilton
Clayton White
Terry Fogleson
Greg Anthony
James Reilly
Bob Reilly
Tom Heyes

*Touring Stock 2002*
Dave Johnson
Keith Hamilton
Rich Chang
Barry Z.
Brad Mergy
Derek Manchester
James Reilly
Greg Anthony
Steven Tenniswood
Aaron Bomia


----------



## Greg Anthony (Sep 10, 2002)

it should be 28oz with "transponder" and 50 oz with "transpronder" no matter what transponder is in the car. Keith, didn't you use a "CRL dummy transponder" for all weights last time we ran?


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## Motor City Hamilton (Feb 5, 2002)

The weight is 28.7 and 50.7 with transponder. The personal transponders are lighter than the club transponders. Club transponders weigh 0.7 oz, so that's why the CRL weights are 0.7 higher than ROAR. There will be a dummy weight of 0.7 oz in tech for cars not running personals. We'll probably need to put a sticker on the non-personals cars so the tech guy will know when to add the weight to the top of their car.


----------



## Greg Anthony (Sep 10, 2002)

Keith, actually we are tied 2-2... I beat you in Stock 1/12th in 2004 and 1/18th in 2002, and you beat me in Stock TC and 1/12th in 2002.


----------



## Tim Stamper (May 22, 2002)

Motor City Hamilton said:


> Two things. I hope that noone sees the CRL rules discussion as a debate. I really don't see anyone getting tempers up over the rules - just offering their thoughts and feelings about them. That's totally cool with me. I like to hear all sides of an issue before making decisions. Bottom line is that we do need rules because racers will stretch the limits. If we don't have rules, then let's not race. Let's just get together and practice together, once a month. The last time we raced the CRL we had complaints that the rules weren't strict enough and weren't posted for racers to see. So, now they are clearly written and will be posted on the website and in tech all year. That's the most fair thing to do.
> 
> Second, racers can always find reasons not to go to a race. Not just R/C racers either. In SCCA I saw posts on the forums about sound rules or the scales there are lighter than at my home track or the pit space is smaller than Mid-Ohio. Forums just attrack this type of comment from people with concerns. For the CRL, we have now seen it listed that people won't come because of too many rules, no brushless class and if a track that I don't like gets a race or a track that I like doesn't get a race, I won't be there. That's fine - everyone is entitled to their own thoughts about the way things go, but often there isn't anyone posting the positive things. Hustler is on the right track, lets start discussing all the fun things that go along with racing at the CRL. I really love organizing and racing in this series. If there is anyone out there who isn't sure about coming to the first CRL for any reason, feel free to call me at 810-610-6050 or e-mail me at [email protected] . I will honestly answer any of your concerns and let you know what I love about racing it.
> 
> ...


I'm cool with whatever is decided. I was just relaying what people have said to me on the phone.

Tim


----------



## Greg Anthony (Sep 10, 2002)

Sean, I got it, you got one now.


----------



## Motor City Hamilton (Feb 5, 2002)

rcsilly said:


> so thats why he is lowering the bar  .......... shoulda , woulda , coulda ...... no excuses DQ is DQ , sorry about your luck
> So in a condensed form , the 3 simple rules are ?
> 
> Ride Height = 3mm before or after or both ?
> ...


Bob - I can't wait to get back to racing with you. You bring an element of fun to things. Do you still have the happy face head with the long yarn hair for your 1/12th scale's roll over antenna? That was one of the funniest things that I have seen in R/C racing.

Ride Height = 3mm for touring and 2.5 mm for 1/12th.

Do you think people would like it better to tech before? I'm fine with that, but it cannot slow the program down. We'll need some sort of cut-off for getting to tech, like the 4 minute mark. If you are not in tech with 4 minutes to go in the previous race, you won't get through tech? I think that's harder than teching after. Plus, I know some people who will stop bolting in their added weight and just use flimsy tape. If it falls out on lap one, cool, there's an ounce or two advantage for the rest of the run.


----------



## rcsilly (Jul 30, 2002)

Yep , "the Head" will be making a comeback ............ see you all next saturday .


----------



## Greg Anthony (Sep 10, 2002)

Keith, am I correct on the weights?


----------



## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

Keith, just leave the ride heights at 3mm for both classes but I guess give a little leeway if the bar hits battery tape, etc for 1/12th or ticks a corner of a chassis (due to bad tweak). The only change I would recommend is that the body for TCs also meet the 3mm rule.

My recommendation is just to leave the teching to after the race. My preference is before the race for ride height, but I understand that that just makes things a bit more complicated for now.

-Rich




Motor City Hamilton said:


> Ride Height = 3mm for touring and 2.5 mm for 1/12th.
> 
> Do you think people would like it better to tech before?


----------



## Greg Anthony (Sep 10, 2002)

I agree with righ, make all teching after the race. it also makes tech less congested with people trying to get ready to race and others trying to get their cars after marshalling.


----------



## Xpressman (Dec 6, 2001)

Hustler said:


> Alright, enough about all of this silly rules-type stuff. Let's get to the really important issue. Is there a bar in or near the Mall or do we have to tailgate it???
> 
> 
> -Sean


Sean,

There is a beer garden in the food court at the mall.


----------



## Xpressman (Dec 6, 2001)

rcsilly said:


> so thats why he is lowering the bar


Literially...


----------



## catmanzr (Sep 9, 2005)

Keith,
I plan on being in toledo for your first race. It will be my 3rd race in 13 years. First time ever with a touring car. Can anyone lend some tuning help at the race with a TF1K05?
Later,
Dan Fisher


----------



## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

Hi Dan,

You are in luck in that there are a lot of folks who race the FK04 and FK05 at that track (and who will be at that track) who can help you out with getting a baseline setup for that car.

I am not one of the folks that owns one, however.

But, I can recommend this:

1) Tires: Get the Parma Magenta and Cyan touring car tires
2) Body: Get the Parma Alfa 190mm body.

Once you have those, all you have to concentrate on it your chassis setup and wheeling the car around. 

If you are running stock, I will have new Monster Stock motors at the track on Saturday for $23 each. I have 5 left.

-Rich


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## rcsilly (Jul 30, 2002)

Rich , Are these motors NEW , "tuned " , or need BRUSHS / SPRINGS . I need something newer than 18 months old , if you come to screwz on tuesday , I'll take a look at one . Bob


----------



## Hustler (Feb 1, 2004)

Xpressman said:


> Sean,
> 
> There is a beer garden in the food court at the mall.


Wow, a garden of beer.... It's an adult Willy Wonka moment!


----------



## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

Bob - they are new and need brushes and springs. However, I have those, too, if you need some. I won't be able to make it up to Screwz tomorrow.

Hustler - I hope the beer is that brown. Otherwise, I don't think I'd want to drink it.


----------



## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

*Fun Run bodies*

Hey Keith,

I was thinknig, for the fun run, what about those nascar style TC bodies for 1/12th (like the ones they run on 1/12th oval)? I think that'd be pretty fun!

-Rich


----------



## mcsquish (Jan 31, 2003)

FYI everyone. Josh will be open on Friday from 2 till 9 for practice. Also we will have to have four people at a table, no taking up 2, or 3, or 4 spots. Well except Angel maybe.


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## Motor City Hamilton (Feb 5, 2002)

1/12th scales from McAllister


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## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

I like the top picture body style better than the bottom one.


----------



## Motor City Hamilton (Feb 5, 2002)

Parma once made indy car bodies. I wish I could find 10 of those somewhere?


----------



## Motor City Hamilton (Feb 5, 2002)

Even better... Minis!











or let's go old school with the T0J, which most of today's racers won't recognize, but Associated sold thousands of these in the 80' and 90's. Tower sells these for $10 each.


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## Xpressman (Dec 6, 2001)

Losi makes a Ford and a Chevy 190mm stock car body.


----------



## Xpressman (Dec 6, 2001)

Hustler said:


> Wow, a garden of beer.... It's an adult Willy Wonka moment!


And you can also visit Barry Baker's favorite adult entertainment facility in Toledo later that night.


----------



## Greg Anthony (Sep 10, 2002)

Send an e-mail to Barry and I'm sure he will fly in a week early for the Haloween Classic just to go out Sat night in Toledo....


----------



## Xpressman (Dec 6, 2001)

So with their being I believe 6 classes this year. Stock, 19t, and mod for 12th and TC why not say the top 3 in each class for TC and 12th make it into the "fun" race at the end of the year. The final 10th spot could be decided on something like most TQs without a win and not in the top 3 or something like that. 

This would make it more interesting because you would have 3 from stock, 19t, and mod in the fun race. Also gives extra incentive to try and be in the top 3 in each class.

But what todo about motors?


----------



## Motor City Hamilton (Feb 5, 2002)

Brian - that's a great idea! Top 3 from each class make it into the A for the fun run. We do special bodies and maybe Dustbuster motors and batteries.


----------



## kevinm (Jan 16, 2002)

Xpressman said:


> Keith,
> 
> Throwout the current rules you have wrote. And follow NASCAR and go with this rule:
> 
> Actions detremental to the CRL will be penalized.


I like it! 

But seriously, whatever rules you decide on need to be both ENFORCED and ENFORCE_ABLE. _Don't make a rule if you don't know how to check it. I was told that at the ROAR Oval Nationals, the Tech inspector A) Didn't know what brushless motors were, and B) didn't know how to use the inductance meter to check them. One of the racers showed him how.

And speaking of brushless motors, what is your final decision for Modified class? No one responded to my earlier post (about 47 pages back or so...) regarding the likelihood of having enough entries to make a separate class. So far I've only seen 1 other racer (also 47 pages back) say they had one. I know Walt H. and Fred B. both have them, and suspect they were planning on using them, but neither of them has posted anything here since your 1st official rules post. (Maybe they haven't been checking in here lately.) (I thought Mod class was always "Run whut you brung, and hope you brung enough".)


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## Ted Flack (Sep 26, 2001)

Motor City Hamilton said:


> Bob - I can't wait to get back to racing with you. You bring an element of fun to things. Do you still have the happy face head with the long yarn hair for your 1/12th scale's roll over antenna? That was one of the funniest things that I have seen in R/C racing.
> 
> Ride Height = 3mm for touring and 2.5 mm for 1/12th.
> 
> Do you think people would like it better to tech before? I'm fine with that, but it cannot slow the program down. We'll need some sort of cut-off for getting to tech, like the 4 minute mark. If you are not in tech with 4 minutes to go in the previous race, you won't get through tech? I think that's harder than teching after. Plus, I know some people who will stop bolting in their added weight and just use flimsy tape. If it falls out on lap one, cool, there's an ounce or two advantage for the rest of the run.


 
Keith,

It would probably help getting guys out on the track to marshall if they have to leave their stuff in Tech after their run. You know what happens if people start going back to the pits......discharge ...see why they went slow....see why they went fast....brag.....make excuses. If they have to go marshall first the excuses get way better because they (we) have time to make stuff up.

Ted


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## rcsilly (Jul 30, 2002)

Hey , I heard there is a CRL RALLY in Toledo next saturday ........ who's going ? 


btw / good point Ted , why do the old guys always find a simple solution ?

Bob


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## rcnutmich (Dec 7, 2004)

tech tech tech, 

is there a trophy for the last place racer...if not there should be,,,cause that would be me!.....besides the hobby shop sells lots of parts when im racing...lol


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## bean's my hero (Oct 3, 2001)

Is the track going to be open on Friday. If so what will the hours be?

Thanks,
Jim


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## rcsilly (Jul 30, 2002)

mcsquish said:


> FYI everyone. Josh will be open on Friday from 2 till 9 for practice. Also we will have to have four people at a table, no taking up 2, or 3, or 4 spots. Well except Angel maybe.


 For you Jim ............


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## walterhenderson (May 8, 2002)

Kevin,

No brushless untill after indoor champs for me.


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## catmanzr (Sep 9, 2005)

what rollout is a good starting point in stock and 19 turn touring at Halo?

Thanks....Dan


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## Motor City Hamilton (Feb 5, 2002)

kevinm And speaking of brushless motors said:


> I have talked to a number of mod racers to get their opinions. The touring car mod count may be kinda small anyway, so I think we should consider running the brushless in there too for touring mod. Some were o.k. with any brushless system, but other wanted to keep it with the system that is close to a 12 turn. I'm not familiar enough with brushless, so can someone post some information or a link to a site for more description.
> 
> I don't expect to see two heats of mod cars as it is, but I may be wrong. I'm hearing a lot more stock and 19 turn racers than I am Mod.


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## NTwigs (Sep 29, 2001)

just let them all run!!!


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## kevinm (Jan 16, 2002)

Motor City Hamilton said:


> I have talked to a number of mod racers to get their opinions. The touring car mod count may be kinda small anyway, so I think we should consider running the brushless in there too for touring mod. Some were o.k. with any brushless system, but other wanted to keep it with the system that is close to a 12 turn. I'm not familiar enough with brushless, so can someone post some information or a link to a site for more description.


Does that mean the guys with brushed motors will limit themselves to 12 turns? :devil: 

The Novak 5800 performs close to a 13-14 turn, the new Reedy and Novak systems are basically equivalent to 9 turns. Check here: http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=121336
for actual dyno data I collected. (I'll also email it to you.)


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## HookupsXXX4 (Dec 4, 2003)

I got a question, with Tech, are you checking weight and width. If so, what should 12th scale be?

Thanks,
Jerry
***********
MAXAMPS.COM


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## Xpressman (Dec 6, 2001)

NTwigs said:


> just let them all run!!!


Speaking of running did that loan come through from trippers?


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## FLCL (Aug 29, 2005)

is the CRL to be a Sat race or a Sun race..........


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## mcsquish (Jan 31, 2003)

Sat. with practice Fri. night 2-9.

If the doors are not open exactly at 7:30 on Sat. morning and the race isn't perfect, be kind to Josh. I was going to open and do my normal stuff, but due to a sudden, but not totaly unexpected death in the family, I will be in MO. Hope everyone has fun.


----------



## rcnutmich (Dec 7, 2004)

mcsquish said:


> Sat. with practice Fri. night 2-9.
> 
> If the doors are not open exactly at 7:30 on Sat. morning and the race isn't perfect, be kind to Josh. I was going to open and do my normal stuff, but due to a sudden, but not totaly unexpected death in the family, I will be in MO. Hope everyone has fun.


SORRY TO HEAR ABOUT YOUR LOSS...HAVE A SAFE TRIP


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## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

Scott - sorry to hear about that.  Let Josh know that if he needs some help announcing races I should be able to help out.

----

3 more days!!!


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## Barry Z (Mar 28, 2002)

Does anybody know if I280 is open in both directions ?
Thanks.


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## walterhenderson (May 8, 2002)

BarryIt was last weekend, if that helps!


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## Motor City Hamilton (Feb 5, 2002)

HookupsXXX4 - Jerry, the 1/12th scale rules for width are 6.77" or 172MM. The 1/12th scale weight is 28.7 oz with transponder in the car. The rules are all posted on the CRL website http://onroadracing.com/crl/ in case you have additional questions and will be in tech at the events.

FLCL - Carpet Racing League will run on Saturdays. First one is this Saturday, 10/22.

McNish - sorry to hear about your loss. You'll be missed this weekend. I guess you'll have to leave it up to Kropy to DQ me.  

Rich - I need to send you some updates for the rules on the website. I'll e-mail them today, then I don't expect any changes once the first race begins.


----------



## Tim Stamper (May 22, 2002)

mcsquish said:


> Sat. with practice Fri. night 2-9.
> 
> If the doors are not open exactly at 7:30 on Sat. morning and the race isn't perfect, be kind to Josh. I was going to open and do my normal stuff, but due to a sudden, but not totaly unexpected death in the family, I will be in MO. Hope everyone has fun.


Sorry to hear that. We will try to be nice to Josh. 

Have a safe trip and see ya on the track when you get back.

l8r,

Tim


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## Greg Anthony (Sep 10, 2002)

Keith, after reading the rules, don;t forget that the spur gear on a 1/12th can be lower then the ride heigth....


----------



## Greg Anthony (Sep 10, 2002)

R Monahan said:


> greg can you call me at riders hobby shop in livonia.


I just saw this... shoot me an e-mail. [email protected]

Greg


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## Motor City Hamilton (Feb 5, 2002)

Greg Anthony said:


> Keith, after reading the rules, don;t forget that the spur gear on a 1/12th can be lower then the ride heigth....


Like this?

Minimum post-race ground clearance (excluding spur gear): 2.5 mm

It's already there Greg. Actually, it will read, (excluding tires, spur gear and battery tape).


----------



## onefastdude (Nov 6, 2002)

mcsquish, you will be missed, but not forgotten. Sorry to hear about your loss and hurry back. Be careful


----------



## rcsilly (Jul 30, 2002)

So whats the ruling on Jaco 2 stage tires ........... just stirring the pot .


----------



## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

2-stage is so "70s." The new tires are the 4-stage that you assemble with the Kinwald Bomb Tire Glue (gets you nice and high as an added bonus). You assemble them 5 minutes before you race for optimum traction.


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## rcsilly (Jul 30, 2002)

Some of us old guys still like the 70's ............. DISCO will make a comeback . LOL


----------



## Motor City Hamilton (Feb 5, 2002)

I see no reason to ban 2 stage tires. If it's available tire technology, why not. Plus, what a tech nightmare. This reminds me of trying to ban two stage foam in off road tires.


----------



## rcsilly (Jul 30, 2002)

But what if only you rich guys can afford them ..........  I got $8 tires , and a 2 yr old motor . 

"racing on a budget ........ Bob "


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## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

I'm not running 2-stage tires, if that is worth anything. 

-Rich


----------



## Buckeye (Apr 28, 2005)

I-280 is closed and will be for 7 months. You can go down 280 and you are forced to get off at Greenbelt Parkway. Turn left on Bush St. It will end at Summit St. Turn left on Summit and you can get back on 280. Maybe a 5 min. detour.


----------



## rcsilly (Jul 30, 2002)

Thank God , Richy Rich don't need to go faster , but I do hear they are "worth" 2/10ths .  
Thanks for the info Buckeye ! 

Bob


----------



## Xpressman (Dec 6, 2001)

Rich Chang said:


> I'm not running 2-stage tires, if that is worth anything.
> 
> -Rich


But you are just Rich Chang...I want to know what The Bomia is running.


----------



## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

He's running the same as me.

But, that could change on Saturday if we are getting our butts spanked by cars with 2-stage foam tires. 

-Rich


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## Barry Z (Mar 28, 2002)

Lets say your coming from Detroit on I75 and you want to avoid I280. What route would you take ?
Thanks.


----------



## kropy (Jan 22, 2003)

Take I-75 South to exit 199A Miami st. turn right @ Oakdale (2nd light) take Oakdale to Woodville Rd. Oakdale will end @ Woodville Rd.


----------



## Barry Z (Mar 28, 2002)

Thanks Kropy !


----------



## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

Yep, this is the route I actually normally take.

Note for those of you taking this route:

Often times right before you get to the Oakdale/Woodville Road intersection there will be a train blocking your path. 

Take the first left before you get to the train tracks. That will take you to Woodville Road. There is a restaurant there (make note of the restaurant. I can't remember the name). Turn right on Woodville. You'll go about 2 miles (you'll cross of I-280).

The reason why I said note the name of that restaurant is that on the return trip, you can't get onto Oakdale from Woodville directly b/c it is one-way. You'll have to turn left at the traffic light where that restaurant is, take that road to the end, and then turn right onto Oakdale.

-Rich



kolors by kropy said:


> Take I-75 South to exit 199A Miami st. turn right @ Oakdale (2nd light) take Oakdale to Woodville Rd. Oakdale will end @ Woodville Rd.


----------



## Xpressman (Dec 6, 2001)

Rich Chang said:


> Yep, this is the route I actually normally take.
> 
> Note for those of you taking this route:
> 
> ...


Wow.....The offical route to the CRL, endorsed by none other then our very own Rich Chang!


----------



## Greg Anthony (Sep 10, 2002)

what, no mapquest map?


----------



## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

Mapquest is so 70's... like 2-stage foam tires.

The new thing is google maps (maps.google.com).

-Rich


----------



## Greg Anthony (Sep 10, 2002)

well, Mr. WebmasterfortheCRL hook us up!


----------



## Motor City Hamilton (Feb 5, 2002)

I actually have access to the beta site for Google Video. Coming soon for all of you soon. Or if you want a sneak peek, type in google.com/video. Shhhh!


----------



## bean's my hero (Oct 3, 2001)

So what time is the track open until Friday Night?

Jim


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## Motor City Hamilton (Feb 5, 2002)

practice Fri. night 2-9.


----------



## Greg Anthony (Sep 10, 2002)

your comin Jimmay?


----------



## Motor City Hamilton (Feb 5, 2002)

The excitement is building. I can't wait to race this weekend. I'm like a kid waiting for the last day of school to end. I built two 1/12th scale front ends. Wanna bet how long into the weekend it takes to break off my first front suspension arm?


----------



## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

Excitement? This weekend? What's going on this weekend? Is there going to be another Klan riot down in Toledo this weekend?


----------



## Barry Z (Mar 28, 2002)

Rich Chang said:


> Yep, this is the route I actually normally take.
> 
> Note for those of you taking this route:
> 
> ...



Hey Rich thanks for the directions.
I found a map of Toledo somewhere and I'm looking at the road you turn left on ( if there's a train in your way) off of Oakdale. The map calls it East Broadway. Does that sound familiar ? It does hit Woodville road so I'm guessing that is the one. Is the resturaunt at that corner?
Another question, when coming home once you turn left at the resturaunt off of Woodville on to East Broadway (?) your heading back to Oakdale but if Oakdale is one way then you can't get back to I75 can you ?
Thanks !


----------



## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

Hi Barry,

If East Broadway T's into Oakdale then that is it. It is literally like 100 yards away from the Woodville Road/Oakdale intersection.

I think the restaurant was a popular chain - like Ground Round or something like that. Had a green sign. My memory is going with old age.

Oakdale is only one-way past the train tracks, so you'll be fine for the return trip. Ohio builds weird roads. 

If you end up leaving the race at the end of the day when I do, you can follow me home.

-Rich




Barry Z said:


> Hey Rich thanks for the directions.
> I found a map of Toledo somewhere and I'm looking at the road you turn left on ( if there's a train in your way) off of Oakdale. The map calls it East Broadway. Does that sound familiar ? It does hit Woodville road so I'm guessing that is the one. Is the resturaunt at that corner?
> Another question, when coming home once you turn left at the resturaunt off of Woodville on to East Broadway (?) your heading back to Oakdale but if Oakdale is one way then you can't get back to I75 can you ?
> Thanks !


----------



## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

Hi Barry, I just looked on a map. You were looking at the wrong RR tracks.  You need to go past East Broadway. You will be crossing a couple sets of RR tracks on Oakdale. The road you want to turn left on is Sunshine.

Here is a link:
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=toledo,oh&ll=41.622837,-83.497682&spn=0.015025,0.032983&hl=en


Also, when you go the first 1/2 mile on Oakdale, take it easy and don't go barelling down that road like I did my first time. The road is a bit umm.. bumpy? over by the first set of RR tracks... and, well, stuff goes flying around in the car when it gets airborn.


----------



## Barry Z (Mar 28, 2002)

Rich Chang said:


> Hi Barry, I just looked on a map. You were looking at the wrong RR tracks.  You need to go past East Broadway. You will be crossing a couple sets of RR tracks on Oakdale. The road you want to turn left on is Sunshine.
> 
> Here is a link:
> http://maps.google.com/maps?q=toledo,oh&ll=41.622837,-83.497682&spn=0.015025,0.032983&hl=en
> ...


Thanks Rich ! That Google is too good !! I got it now.
I've seen you drive (by me!) and at 90 MPH even when you hit a tar strip things are going to fly around........


----------



## rcsilly (Jul 30, 2002)

********* CRL RALLY ********* saturday 7:30 am **** Woodville Mall **


----------



## Xpressman (Dec 6, 2001)

Rich Chang said:


> If you end up leaving the race at the end of the day when I do, you can follow me home.
> 
> -Rich


Does your wife know you bring RCer's home after a race???


----------



## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

Yeah, and some of them stay over night. *cough* Aaron *cough*

But, hey, I don't mind and what are friends for? That is all he is! Seriously! 

-Rich


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## Xpressman (Dec 6, 2001)

Rich Chang said:


> Yeah, and some of them stay over night. *cough* Aaron *cough*
> 
> But, hey, I don't mind and what are friends for? That is all he is! Seriously!
> 
> -Rich


Barney always said caring is sharing so don't hog *cough* Aaron *cough* all the time.


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## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

10/20/05 - Brian admits to watching Barney.



Xpressman said:


> Barney always said caring is sharing so don't hog *cough* Aaron *cough* all the time.


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## Tigger (Oct 28, 2002)

nm...


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## minidixon (Feb 21, 2002)

I believe the restaurant is a Ponderosa.

Bob


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## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

Thanks, Bob! That's the one!


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## rcnutmich (Dec 7, 2004)

24hr's


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## Motor City Hamilton (Feb 5, 2002)

Crap. Stupid Michigan construction. I-75 is down to one lane just south of Flat Rock. I-275 may be a faster way past this?


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## rcnutmich (Dec 7, 2004)

Fun night of racing, great job to josh and crl crew


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## rctazmanmc (Oct 8, 2001)

Way to go Josh and Keith!!!

Great job and organization. Was a good time and fun all weekend.

Will there be racing this coming Saturday??? or none due to the race at The Gate?

mc


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## rcsilly (Jul 30, 2002)

Thanks for the great day of racing and the good times as always ! 

Bob


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## Tim Stamper (May 22, 2002)

Kudo's go out to Josh and Keith for an excellent start to the CRL.

Had a blast running 19T and wish I wasn't served into the plexi-glass on the tone. Jumping from 6th to 4th was kinda neat until I tried to cut in on a car and was scooped almost over the barrier. I gotta learn to drive through people better, I guess. 

l8r,

Tim


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## HookupsXXX4 (Dec 4, 2003)

What a weekend, had a blast at the first race of the CRL.

Got to meet some new people, and got to see some great racing.

Anyone have any info for hotel rooms for race 2? 

Jerry
************
MAXAMPS.COM


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## Greg Anthony (Sep 10, 2002)

WOW, what a great weekend of racing! Thank you Josh and Keith.

See you all in Lansing....

BarryZ, what happened to you?


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## Motor City Hamilton (Feb 5, 2002)

Greg - what happened to your brother? I thought he was going to run some 1/12th with us this year?

I have the points done and will send them to Rich today. 

Great day of racing. 78 entries. Very few issues. Three dq's in the mains... eeek. Pretty much just need to follow three simple rules; weight, ride height and legal motors. Fortunately it wasn't me this time.

Thanks for coming out to race with the CRL. I had a blast. I'll have flyers for race two ready soon, then Rich or I will start a Lansing Edition thread.


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## Barry Z (Mar 28, 2002)

Greg Anthony said:


> WOW, what a great weekend of racing! Thank you Josh and Keith.
> 
> See you all in Lansing....
> 
> BarryZ, what happened to you?



Hey Greg, sorry I missed out. A little under the weather right now, hope to get back soon.
Thanks.


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## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

Barry, good thing you mentioned East Broadway. There ended up being a train stopped right at those train tracks at Oakdale/East Broadway. So, I turned left onto East Broadway.... only to get boxed in b/c there was another train on those track! LOL! Luckily, that one was moving and we only had to wait about 10 minutes.

Bummer you couldn't make it. Hope you feel better soon!

-Rich



Barry Z said:


> Hey Greg, sorry I missed out. A little under the weather right now, hope to get back soon.
> Thanks.


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## rcnutmich (Dec 7, 2004)

hello, the flyer says jan 21st for the fort wayne, i thought i heard people talking and saying it has been change to jan 14th ?????????????????????????


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## Motor City Hamilton (Feb 5, 2002)

We had origionally wanted Jan 14th, but the Novak race at Trackside Hobbies was on that date. They have now moved to Jan 7-9, but let's keep the CRL on the 21st. Those who travel to the Novak race might appreciate a week off.


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## Greg Anthony (Sep 10, 2002)

Good call Keith!


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## rcnutmich (Dec 7, 2004)

Motor City Hamilton said:


> We had origionally wanted Jan 14th, but the Novak race at Trackside Hobbies was on that date. They have now moved to Jan 7-9, but let's keep the CRL on the 21st. Those who travel to the Novak race might appreciate a week off.



ok 21st it is..just wanted to make sure, so i can make hotel res.


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## Keith Billanti (Oct 24, 2005)

CRL was great fun.. hope to make it to the rest.. LOL.. if I can afford it.

anyone know of any job openings in MI??? LOL


who's all going to the Novak race?

//KBpower


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## Xpressman (Dec 6, 2001)

Motor City Hamilton said:


> Greg - what happened to your brother? I thought he was going to run some 1/12th with us this year?


Well get me a job and I will even be your mechanic.


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## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

*New thread for Lansing Edition*

New thread started for Race #2. 

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?p=1249879#post1249879

I will be updating the website over the next few days.


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## Fred Knapp (Oct 7, 2001)

Motor City Hamilton said:


> Here is the official announcement. I have talked this over with 8 CRL regulars (10% sample) today and the consensus is that we will be in Toledo next week.
> 
> 11/12 Halo Hobbies in Toledo
> 12/10 Larry's in Detroit
> ...


So we are back over here.


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## HookupsXXX4 (Dec 4, 2003)

This is sweet, 2 CRL races right in my back yard! What happened to Hobby Hub? I was hearing things that they didn't have the track down. So are we going to continue with this thread for a while?

Jerry


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## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

Info about what caused the delay for Hobby Hub (actually, Mid-Michigan R/C) is over in the Hobby Hub thread. 

-Rich


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## rcnutmich (Dec 7, 2004)

Rich Chang said:


> Info about what caused the delay for Hobby Hub (actually, Mid-Michigan R/C) is over in the Hobby Hub thread.
> 
> -Rich


hey rich, whats the link to the mid mich rc


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## rctazmanmc (Oct 8, 2001)

I think the turn out of 78 or so for the first race will be much larger this time at Halo due to being so close to the champs.

Should be another great time and turn out. Racing was good tonight but will even be better next weekend.

It is short noticve but a good choice to use Halo again and add another race to the series on a different date.

See ya later,

mc

"Back To Basics Racing"


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## Guest (Nov 6, 2005)

Any Fort Wayne racers heading out?


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## Motor City Hamilton (Feb 5, 2002)

Let's keep things simple and use the other thread. Let's let this one go.


Thanks


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