# BSRT G-Jet vs AFX Super G +



## christos_s

I have been playing with t-jets ever since I was lured back in the hobby in 1998. I've tried NOS T-jet and Tuff-1 chassis, new JL's and AW, Faller's and I have managed to tune and enjoy all of the above which despite individual characteristics perform competetively enough to be fun as a whole. (See my profile gallery) And I do like retro sports cars.

My first contact with mag-cars was dissapointing. I bought the retro Tyco Twin Pack 50's Chevy/Vette. Much larger they looked like odd-balls and ran much faster but... they seem glued till de-slotting speed. That's no fun, I put them away.

To make a long story shorter.. Lately I started another, separate collection of GTP/LMP cars. I've tried many chassis Tyco and Tomy. I prefer all of them after I remove the traction magnets.

The last I tried was the Super G+ . Wow! that's a nice car! Smooth, responsive, fast and driveable.
I read about the G-Jet which seems to be just what I am looking for... I read the cost too... $45-50

Anyone tried replacing the Super G+ magnets with the BSRT brass traction weights? ($5). How close are we then to a G-Jet?

*note: in this scenario I get to keep my 20V Aurora-MM power supply too


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## 1976Cordoba

_


christos_s said:



. . . I read about the G-Jet which seems to be just what I am looking for... I read the cost too... $45-50

Click to expand...

_


christos_s said:


> _Anyone tried replacing the Super G+ magnets with the BSRT brass traction weights? ($5). How close are we then to a G-Jet? . . . _




Haven't tried it and don't have a clue if it would work but . . . maybe someone else has tried it and can elaborate.

Also, I think the G-Jet has a different Ohm armature from a G+ too since it is designed to run on 12v power. I *think* the Ohm is higher in the G-Jet.

Christos did you get the links I e-mailed re: the track buildings?


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## martybauer31

I just tried my rear G-Jet weights in a Super G+ I had and they don't fit. You will need the G3 chassis if you want to convert it, as well as needing the 9 ohm arm made for the G-Jet versus the standard 6 ohm.

Also, not sure about your 20V power supply comment, the G-Jets are run at 12V. Scale Auto sells a nice little variable power supply, from 3 to 12 Volts for around $20-25 as well.

Good Luck!


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## AfxToo

Have you tried an Aurora G-Plus chassis? I've found these to be a great combination of speed and handling with not too much magnetic attraction. The only issue is availability because you are tapping into an eroding NOS supply channel. Another nice combination is putting polymer magnets and a mean green arm in a magnatraction or AWXT. An even cheaper alternative, if you want a little more downforce than a stock AWXT delivers, is to cut the bottom crossbar that supports the AWXT rear magnet and glue the magnet in the socket so it is flush with the bottom of the chassis. The AWXT chassis are very inexpensive.

If you are going to go to the expense of swapping out your primary track power supply with a variable power supply (at least $100), or adding another fixed voltage power supply (around $25 for a 12V unit) that you wire in just for running at lower voltages then you'll find that you can run a wide variety of makes and models of cars at lower voltages and obtain a different driving experience with every make and model over what you see at the stock Tomy or Tyco wall wart voltage.

There's absolutely nothing special about the GJet or its 9 ohm arm that makes it any better suited to run a 12V than any other slot car on the market. For the price of two GJets you can buy a variable power supply and have the ability to adjust your track power to obtain the exact driving experience you want from any car you want to run, including, but not limited to, GJets. Over the long run that's the premium solution.


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## christos_s

Yes John, thank you, very intersting


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## christos_s

martybauer31 said:


> I just tried my rear G-Jet weights in a Super G+ I had and they don't fit. You will need the G3 chassis if you want to convert it, as well as needing the 9 ohm arm made for the G-Jet versus the standard 6 ohm.
> 
> Also, not sure about your 20V power supply comment, the G-Jets are run at 12V. Scale Auto sells a nice little variable power supply, from 3 to 12 Volts for around $20-25 as well.
> 
> Good Luck!


No,no you are missing the point of the question. I am not trying to convert a sg+ to a g-jet. Rather I am wondering how a weighted-no-tractionmags sg+ races against a g-jet (if anyone has both the chassis and can weight down the sg+ after removing the traction magnets)

And yes race'em both at 20V not 12. Or race both at 15V for you guys that have variable power. Or one lane powered at 20V with the SG+ and the other with 12V and the G-jet....


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## AfxToo

> I am wondering how a weighted-no-tractionmags sg+ races against a g-jet


The problem is - nobody has weights for a SG+ so doing a side by side comparison is somewhat difficult. The SG+ magnets are rather small in size so you would have to use something heavier than brass to get the same weight as the brass weights used in the GJet. One thing that comes to mind would be to use lead to fabricate weights for the SG+. Where do you get lead? One source would be lead weights used for fishing. Another would be the self adhesive lead weights the larger scale slotters use. (http://www.flightsoffancy.co.za/Default.aspx?tabid=37&ProductID=1296) Maybe you could forge a blob of lead into a shape that would fit into the magnet pocket of a SG+. Put another slab of lead in the cavity behind the front axle. Do whatever it takes to emulate a SG+Jet using lead weights. Then slap it on a track and how it works.


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## martybauer31

christos_s said:


> No,no you are missing the point of the question. I am not trying to convert a sg+ to a g-jet. *Rather I am wondering how a weighted-no-tractionmags sg+ races against a g-jet (if anyone has both the chassis and can weight down the sg+ after removing the traction magnets)*
> 
> And yes race'em both at 20V not 12. Or race both at 15V for you guys that have variable power. Or one lane powered at 20V with the SG+ and the other with 12V and the G-jet....


First off, like AFXToo states, no weights will fit the SG+.

Secondly, why would you race them both at at 20V? The G-Jet was designed to run at 12V with the 9 Ohm arm. Gary didn't just pull that number out of the air and make a guess at it, that is where it runs best. G-Jets run best with G-Jets. 

Running a SG+ at 20V without the traction magnets isn't going to be much fun either I would supsect, blinding speed with no chance at making a corner sort of defeats the point as well.

I suppose a viable alternative for the SG+ if you don't want to invest in a G3 chassis and a 9 ohm arm would be to yank the traction mags out and run it at 15, but it's still not an even match as they aren't the same class of car. The weights help keep the car planted, they aren't just a space filler.

Why not just invest in an extra G-Jet and run them straight up?


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## AfxToo

The G3 was designed to be a hard core magnet racer with maximum emphasis on magnetic downforce. When they yanked the magnets out, it became undriveable. So what do you do? De-tune the arm? That helped somewhat, but not enough. So the only thing left to do was to do what we've been doing for years when we let the kiddies run on the track with high speed cars- turn down the power supply voltage. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out. 

Invest in a variable power supply. You too can be a genius.


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## martybauer31

I get what you're saying AFX, I turn down the voltage to 10 and let my 4 year old run around the track with a Super G+ car all the time. Taking out the traction magnets doesn't actually make it the equivalent of a G-Jet though, not sure what a degree in Aeronautical Engineering (or lack thereof) has to do with any of this.

It's obvious you aren't a fan of the G-Jet, which is perfectly fine, lot's of people are though, they are a ton of fun..... I have indeed tried a SG+ without the magnets at lower voltage, not the same car.


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## AfxToo

I have no problem with the GJet, Thunderstorm, and PJet. The whole approach to repurposing existing products with a few minor tweaks is a slick marketing idea. This gives racers who want something different than what they've been getting from the traditional magnet car racing scene another option. It gives the companies involved a way to sustain a revenue stream that may otherwise have been reduced or lost to TJet defections. From a magnet car manufacturer's perspective, the loss of magnet car racers to the TJet racing scene is a serious threat. Something had to be done to keep racers interested and buying product. That's where the magnet car turned brass car, magnabrass car, comes in.

As anyone who's been running the magnet cars over the past decade plus knows, they are expensive and need a lot of care and feeding with a constant litany of new parts (especially tires and magnets) that seem to follow a very steep obsolescence curve. Staying competitive with constantly escalating performance in magnet car racing costs a lot of money, money spent wildly on a slippery slope of constant product and part obsolescence. 

Truth be told, the equation isn't a whole lot different in TJet racing. To be competitive you must spend money. Obsolescence hell still exists, but in a more constrained way. However, in TJet racing the wealth to be made from the cost of competition and obsolescence hell is much more spread around because the owner of the core platform is long dead. The fact that Aurora isn't pumping out new rolling chassis is a somewhat stabilizing influence. Alternatives like JL/AW and MM haven't caught on for some reason. The fact that AW does not actively promote racing, source a sufficient supply of service parts, much less upgrade parts, and suffers from quality lapses doesn't help to establish AW as the heir apparent to the fading Aurora TJet dynasty. 

The magnabrass car manufacturers are all trying to capture the market that is created by those magnet car racers jumping off the slippery slope of escalating performance and cost. At the same time manufacturers also want a bigger slice of the pie, something they can't get in the TJet market. The GJet, TStorm, and PJet are all trying to stake their claim on becoming the preferred magnabrass platform that eliminates or at least reduces the TJet threat. 

The big question then becomes, will the magnabrass cars restore sanity to the constantly increasing costs of competitiveness and slow down constant product and part upgrade cycles? Probably not. Going fast will still cost money and expensive upgrade parts will surely hit, as they already have with the GJet. The stock niner arm not good enough? Easy solution, pay 2X for a hot stock niner. The sweet melody of "cha-ching" echoes once again through the northwest as Pandora's box is slowly cracked open...


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## Hornet

I run R/O and it's a hell'va lot cheaper class then any T-Jet class ever will be,unless you can still find them by the case at a reasonable price.
Why the bad mouthing of a manufacture'r trying to look out for their customers AFXII,looks like these new traction magnetless cars are filling a serious void in the racing league's of America,easier and cheaper then a T-jet ever will be to work on.
I don't think T-jets are on as much of a uphill climb as you think,branch out past your own little corner of the world.
Up here T-jets are dead,a few guys pushed them for a few years but weren't very successful.
Outta curiousity how old are you,we all know what happens when we get a few years under our belt,we get stuck in our ways,and you can't teach the old dog new tricks,you wouldn't maybe getting to that age would ya AFX2


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## 1976Cordoba

Hmmm -- let's just all behave and play nice with our little toy cars. No need to get catty.

For me, the 'black art' of trying to get t-jets to perform has left me a bit cold so a quality inline car with weights instead of mags sounds like a good idea. That being said, I also have a variable power supply to mess with. Somewhere in there is the sweet spot.

Personally, I think if the G-Jet wants to corner the market in the new brass wars, they should take $20 off the price now so people can afford to buy more than 1 at a time. Maybe there is more in the price, I don't know. I don't manufacture slot cars so I don't know what it takes to bring these to market and stay in business.


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## christos_s

here-here-har-har 3-cheers for Doba, I agree.

(what are R/O cars anyway?)


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## LeeRoy98

I love the G-Jets, they are far better than I expected. The idea of converting the traction magnets on a Super G+ is intruiging. We used to model lead weights years ago by constructing a mold from modeling clay. I suggest coating a pair of traction magnets with vaseline and then forcing them flush into a chunk modeling clay. Allow the clay to harden or bake the clay in the oven to harden the mold. When the mold has hardened, remove the traction magnets (don't forget to clean off the vaseline!). 

The molten lead is done by heating lead fishing weights in steel ladle (remember it will be HOT!!) using a propane torch to heat the ladle. The lead will melt quickly and can be poured into the mold. Allow to cool, use a file to clean and size the new weights.

I am going to give this a shot when time permits and try them at 12 volts.

Gary
AKA LeeRoy98
www.marioncountyraceway.com


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## christos_s

Very nice idea LeeRoy I was thinking of slicing lead sheet and epoxing 3 layers to for the step shape of the magnets, but your idea is way faster. Thanx. I'm not sure you will get enough umph out of the SG+ at 12V, let me know. If you have variable power try all at 15V.


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## christos_s

Nomenclature:

"Magnabrass"?? I dont think so, bye-bye magnets
"Brasstraction" or "HVG+" for HeaVy G+

Any other suggestions?


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## martybauer31

Not sure why the northwest gets the brunt of this one AFX....

Wizzard mocked the G-Jet right up until he came out with his version and then claimed he thought of it first. Adding weights to a car without changing anything else takes real genius. Now Tony has one as well, there must be something to the idea of the car after all I would say.

Yes, at $50, the G-Jet is not cheap. But I race fray cars as well, and they cost over $100 to put one together with all the right parts. I know a superstock car can cost at least 100, and a polymer even more. Yes, AW cars are cheap at 15-20, but I see posts from every person in here with a new guide on how to tweak the cars to get them to run better because out of the box they are clearly not good.

What do you get for a $50 G-Jet? You get Dean Tweedale building out every single car and breaking them in for 12 hours. He hands them to Gary who runs them on their track, if it doesn't hit a specific time, the car does not pass go, it gets disassembled and goes back to square one. If it hits the mark, THEN it gets sent out.

I built a G-Jet at a kit race at the G3 Championships in a 12 minutes timed event, it is one of the fastest cars in my box with a stock 9 ohm arm, the cars are that good.

The G-Jets are also a hit as the guys racing magnet cars get older, their reflexes may slow and have a bit more trouble with the light benders. The G-Jets allow them to have fun and keep racing and still require some skill to keep them on the track.

It very obvious you have never run one, maybe you should check one out before bad mouthing the concept too much. I'd be curious to hear what it is you race and who you race for. Fifty bucks for a car you need to do nothing too out of the package is not a bad deal at all, there are plenty of groups out there adding these to their schedules.....


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## christos_s

*Be more tolerant please*



martybauer31 said:


> ...
> It very obvious you have never run one, maybe you should check one out before bad mouthing the concept too much. I'd be curious to hear what it is you race and who you race for. Fifty bucks for a car you need to do nothing too out of the package is not a bad deal at all, there are plenty of groups out there adding these to their schedules.....


Marty lighten up please. You come off very aggressive. This is a discussion thread not a quarrel.
Thanx for the information on G-jets.
I like tweaking with cars. I think it over extravagant to spend $50 on my toy/hobby. Knowing what the price represents is one thing, whether it's worth it is personal choise.


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## martybauer31

People shouldn't be bashing something they don't know a thing about and it admittedly ticks me off. Stick to the facts and everyone can play nice. I enjoy posting to this board because it has yet to turn into a bash forum like others out there, certain people like throwing fuel on the fire.

You now have the facts, and you can buy whatever you like, but please don't tell me to lighten up when the other party is the one starting it up. Enough said from my end.


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## Bill Hall

*Apples and Oranges ...again*

Scale racing is not unlike big boy racing. Different cars, different technologies and designs, as well as different configurations of layouts.

Do ya run sprint cars on a road course? Do ya run swamp buggies at Daytona?
Oh lets run a vintage 917 on a dirt track! Seems kinda silly ...dont it?

Keep in mind I'm not trying to pile on, defend Marty, sell g-jets or any other model. 

That being said, as a remedially skilled less than ametuer racer (dont get enough track time) I was introduced to the g-jet at a crash and bash session at Marty's pad. I had no expectations one way or the other. Simply a "here check this out Bill" ...so I did. My impressions of the G-jet were that they are light and nimble with a power curve well suited to their design. I found the out of the box chassis ballance pleasantly surprising. It was an excellent platform, and I found it to be like an Iroc or restrictor plate era Nascar; where the emphasis is placed upon driver skill, patience, and a feel for the limits of non traction assist cars. One mans opinion...they were smooth and sweet. Straight up, out of the box, door to door racing. The competition was no less heated or fun than any other class. I was able to jump right in and run decent laptimes with a gang of hot fingered, seasoned veterans.

So while I appreciate what the g-jet is, can I rationally expect it to perform competetively out of it's class? Oh gee why wont my fastest vibrator Hotrod run with my riduculously fast souped up polymaged AFX magna. For the same reason that same Magna cant hang with a viscious SS. Ones an apple and ones an orange!...duh

As with all engineering you trade one thing for another. Again I'm not defending anyone. An early comment by AFX Too points out that with a loss of downforce ya gotta dial down the power...a no brainer...the chassis was engineered so that the relationship between tractive effect and the motor's power curve compliment one another. Ya cant just arbitrarily change whatever you will and not expect a compromise like dialing down the power. Ya cant have it both ways. This is slot tuning 101...and the first rule of slot tuning is that (I'm generalizing here) "they are the way they are for a reason". Modern slot tolerances are measured in miniscule fractions and the tuning/tweaking window is very skinny with out upsetting the whole applecart. Ya cant go at it with a splitting maul and a chainsaw...then expecting satisfactory results.

Oh and then there's always price whining...another fundamental rule...hobbies aint free ....and racing competitively turns your pockets inside out...again I say duh.

So when yer McClaren doesnt off road rally very well and yer sand rail dont cut the mustard at Lemans... watcha gonna do? Physics is physics and the cost is what the trade will bear. Step back and consider why things are engineered the way they were and why they cost what they do. 

Personally I like to run classes in a progression based on speed and performance moving from slowest to fastest...for the same reason you eat the apple before the orange and brush your teeth later. That way your not basing opinions and decisions based on subjective and tainted flavors.

Forgive me fellahs...I'm well out on the limb on this rant but deluded or not, 
I'd like to think that I'm defending sensibilities here and not any one person or manufacturer ...I'll surrender the soap box willingly...and if your gonna stone me please make it a head shot so I dont know it....ignorance is bliss. I just love 'lil cars... period!


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## martybauer31

I love 'em too Bill, Amen! Some I may love a little more than others. =) And live a little will ya? Try brushing your teeth and then having that orange!


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## christos_s

True that with 20V and the magnets gone you loose some control. The car is still driveable, in fact its more fun for me even so, just like that.

If you add a resistor to the controller, its even more controllable.

Voltage regulation is better adjusting power.

So ok the manufacturer had tweaked for superfast stick to the road performance... even upside-down. Doesnt mean you cant have other fun with it


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## AfxToo

> bad mouthing the concept too much


Marty,

Who's bad mouthing anything? Please let me know what I may have said that you find offensive. There's a big difference between critical evaluation and negativity. I never presented a negative view of the GJet or said it was better or worse than any other brand of car that follows the same formula. Did I say anything that implied brand preference over another? 

What exactly did I say that you have a problem with?


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## racenut123

Wow...I thought I was getting out of R/C to race HO and come into an arena that had very little whining and politics.Guess I was wrong.I am all for everyone having an opinion,but when that opinion is not an objective one,then whats the point?Coming from a form of racing that has some sort of structure in every class,I can see where these 3 cars leave a lot to ones own interpretation.I think,unfortunately,these cars were never meant to compete against one another,because the manufacturers of these cars don't get along and are reaching for market share.The latter is business.So be it.But I see these "cottage" business/manufacturers are missing the point of their creation and at the same time,shooting themselves in the foot.A class that is suppose to be about the driver and not all about the equipment.It's too bad.

I am glad I have a thick skin.Otherwise I would say I am already over this stuff.I would say,especially when a "newbie" asks a specific question,be helpful without apparent or unapparent bias.Be objective guys.Otherwise you will all be playing with yourselves in the longrun...


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## AfxToo

racenut, this board is about as good as it gets for objectivity compared to the other slot car boards on the net. I really don't see anything in this thread that should trigger concern one way or the other. Yeah, I was very surprised to be accused of bad mouthing BSRT when there's nothing in my posts that say anything bad/negative about BSRT or any other manufacturer. What the heck, if the accuser knew how much money I've personally spent on BSRT products, just in the past few months, he'd be wanting to get on my "bad side" too if that were the case. Sorry but that's just not the case.


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## racenut123

While I agree this seems to be the best message board for info with the least amount of BS,I will say that the subversive types have crept in here too.I can't believe the crap that goes on between the "party lines" on other boards.It's rather sad and harmful in the long run.I say,if you have nothing good or constructive to say,don't say it at all. Anyways,hopefully everyone can get along.:freak:


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## martybauer31

AfxToo, you strike a nerve with me in a lot of your posts. They always seem to be black or white. You mention the melody of "cha-ching" like Gary is just out to hose the consumer with a product that was just slapped together. Another post of yours mentions anyone using the 3 post method for controller hookup is doing it completely wrong, you write a lot of things like that and I don't like it.

Like you are now, you stirred it up, and then turn around and post the "who me, what did I do?" comments. My first post was trying to be helpful, you then chimed with your rocket scientist and genius comment which admittedly ticked me off. You never answered if you did or did not have a G-Jet to make the comments you are making about it. Now I am the "accuser" instead of Marty. I could care less what you spend on BSRT products, just don't come into a thread, throw a grenade, and then walk away.

I'm not a "party-line" guy either, in fact, I believe most of my posts out here are at least somewhat helpful, so I don't like to get lumped into being one pf those crap stirrers. You just hit a nerve, typically I choose not to post where you do because you do it a lot. The new guys don't remember you quitting this group and deleting all of your posts either I'm sure.

At any rate, I won't take your bait anymore, and to the new guys, apologies for dumping in this thread. This is the best board out there, but like anything else, not everyone will agree all the time.

Marty


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## AfxToo

I think the real problem here is that too many people in segments of this hobby have been programmed to live in a culture of controversy and contentiousness. No longer can anyone express their opinion or critically evaluate the merits or shortcomings of anything without being accused as picking sides, being inflammatory, or trying to defame one person/group or another. Even when rationale is given for one's opinion it is too overlooked because everything has to be pigeon holed into which side are you on, who you support, the type of racing you do, or your manufacturer allegiance. That's too bad, especially when you support everyone in the hobby equally.

I never picked up on the fact that anyone felt put off by my enthusiasm for a certain type of drivers station. When I saw the design for the first time several years ago a light bulb lit up in me because I thought it was so much better and simpler than anything I'd seen before. Does that make the other styles "bad" or "stupid" in any way? Do people using the other methods feel the need to defend their choice? These are not even legitimate questions. Drivers stations are just things and if you feel your legitimacy is tied to your choice of drivers stations, or slot car brands, or racing types, you have bigger problems.


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## christos_s

*Stop bitching*

Guys take this some place else please!
Thank you for the initial productive comments, make a bitching thread and go there for the rest.  

P.S. the g-jet weights fit the sg+ magnet pockets, so says http://www.hoslotcarracing.com/ and the other informative sites out there. Haven't tried it personally but I have seen the relative photos.


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## martybauer31

AfxToo said:


> I think the real problem here is that too many people in segments of this hobby have been programmed to live in a culture of controversy and contentiousness. No longer can anyone express their opinion or critically evaluate the merits or shortcomings of anything without being accused as picking sides, being inflammatory, or trying to defame one person/group or another. Even when rationale is given for one's opinion it is too overlooked because everything has to be pigeon holed into which side are you on, who you support, the type of racing you do, or your manufacturer allegiance. That's too bad, especially when you support everyone in the hobby equally.
> 
> I never picked up on the fact that anyone felt put off by my enthusiasm for a certain type of drivers station. When I saw the design for the first time several years ago a light bulb lit up in me because I thought it was so much better and simpler than anything I'd seen before. Does that make the other styles "bad" or "stupid" in any way? Do people using the other methods feel the need to defend their choice? These are not even legitimate questions. Drivers stations are just things and if you feel your legitimacy is tied to your choice of drivers stations, or slot car brands, or racing types, you have bigger problems.


Wow, that's real pretty and flowery and all that and you've now done the complete 180 I expected. Nice Job. I'll make it even simpler for you because you don't seem to get it. Go away......


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## vaBcHRog

Here is my opinion of G Jets. I own two of them and was excited when I read all the hype. These are very professionally looking cars. My first disappointment was the amount of down force. Any time you can put a car on a piece of track turn the track upside down and the car stick its a magnet car by my definition. That said they are a lot of fun to drive and are very comparable to the HOPRA Super Stock cars that I ran in the early 90's based on the TYCO 440 X2's. In fact they run as good as my best superstock from that time period. As an introduction class to magnet car racing or just class of their own they are just about perfect.

My goal is to build a pancake G Jet killer  So far a XT with polymers and good tires is very a good match handing wise but will be left behind on the main straights. They need just a tad more speed on 12vdc. I do believe with a little work you could build 440 X2's with slip-ons that could be competitive with a G JET at 12vdc if you are looking for a challenge.

I'm looking forward to seeing the G Jets run with hard bodies and seeing what members of the hobby can come up with to run against them at 12VDV. Shoot I wouldn't mind seeing the voltage dropped a little more so you can enjoy watching car as much as racing it 

Roger Corrie
Virginia Beach, VA


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## christos_s

Then again why shouldnt each lane have a separate, albeit small, switchable, power suply of its own making it possible to run each car at optimum voltage and compare performance at design/design+modified specifications?
That is to say run g-jets at 12V and 440x2's at 18+ V side-by-side. Then judge who makes a better car...

Do G-jets really stick upside down??? just by motor magnets? and despite weights?


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## 1976Cordoba

OK.

This thread needs a diversion . . . how about a polar bear falling on his can?


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## AfxToo

When the Aurora Magnatraction first came out we wouldn't race them because anything that could stay on a track piece turned sideways, much less upside down, was considered an abomination. Needless to say, I've come around to love all manner of slotcars from TJets to RO magnet cars. They all have something to offer and add a unique flavor to the hobby. My favorite slot car of all time, by a small margin, is still the Aurora G-Plus. The GJets and ThunderStorms that I have tried or own remind me of the G-Plus to some degree, but only more refined and of course more expensive. 

The big problem with the Aurora G-Plus is availability, so seeking to emulate the driving experience of the G-Plus with other types of affordable and readily available chassis is a worthwhile venture. 

But watch out Roger ... icebergs ahead.


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## vaBcHRog

christos_s said:


> Do G-jets really stick upside down??? just by motor magnets? and despite weights?


They sure do 

Roger Corrie


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## tasman

If the motor magnets are that strong how do they "slide" around a corner? Seems to me that once they break loose it would be hard to keep them on the track.

I would love to try one. Unforntunately, no one I know has one and I'm not too thrilled about spending $50 just to try one out.


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## AfxToo

> If the motor magnets are that strong how do they "slide" around a corner? Seems to me that once they break loose it would be hard to keep them on the track.


If you were running your car on a constant radius corner at a constant speed then once it broke free, i.e., the force on the car that is trying to make the back end slide around is greater than the sum of the forces opposing the car from sliding around, then I'd suspect you would be unable to recover from it. 

However, the motor magnets are wide enough and forward enough to exert some influence even when they are not perfectly aligned over the rails. Second the traction from the tires is still acting to oppose the force trying to bring the rear end around. Third, if you are coming out of the corner the fact that the guide pin is in the slot has roughly the same effect as turning the steering wheel towards the direction of the slide, which we all learned in driving school is the best way to correct from a spin. It's this combination of three things that will help recover from the spin, but which one matters most depends on where you are in the corner so you must adjust your driving accordingly. If you are midway through the turn the help you'll get from the corner to straight transition will not matter. At this point the only thing you can do to correct the spin is reduce the forces that are trying to spin your car. This is easy, back off the throttle! When you slow down the car you allow the forces that are trying to keep the car from spinning out to win the battle. How quickly the car slows down when you back off the throttle matters too, and this is where braking comes in. Also, if you can simply reduce the amount of spin long enough for the effects you'll get from the transition to the straight to kick in then you can survive the slide without fully recovering from it until you reach the straight. This is what I would call a power slide because you stay on the power throughout or for a good part of the corner.

This behavior is common to all slot cars regardless of the configuration of magnets. It's all about the sum of forces acting to make the car spin (or deslot) versus the sum of forces trying to oppose the spin (or deslot). Whichever side wins determines the outcome. The configuration, size, location, and shape of the magnets matters a lot too. Cars with very narrow traction magnets placed way in the rear of the car (think Life-Like T chassis) are much less forgiving because it doesn't take much of a slide for the magnets to lose influence. Fortunately, the LL magnets are usually extremely strong and the motor magnets still exert plenty of influence. In general though, cars with small, super strong tractions will lose it very suddenly and at very high speeds with little chance for recovery. And as I mentioned earlier, the behavior of the car under braking affects its ability to recover from a slide. This combination of car setup and driving skill is the essence of slot car racing and applies to everything from stock TJets to Unlimiteds. 

If you want to experience slot cars that have more slide action in the moderate range of speeds and are cost conscious I would suggest trying the Aurora Magnatraction, Aurora G-Plus, AW Xtraction, Tomy Turbo, Tyco 440 (non X2) or HP440, and especially the Tyco HP7. 

If you want a highly refined, professionally-built, state of the art racing chassis that fit the power sliding driving style the BSRT GJet, Wizzard Thunderstorm, and Slottech PJet are all excellent examples of cars that deliver on this front. You can save some money here by buying the weight kits (and special arms if needed) and converting an existing car into its brass weighted racing equivalent. 

If you want to experience some extreme slider action the renewed Riggen race car is reminiscent of the brass chassis days of the late 60s and early 70s. There are also some folks who have renewed the "brass wars" style of racing using components from modern day HO cars to build up brass wars style racers. Check out the "Home Racing Forum" part of the Wizzard BBS for information about these modern day brass wars cars.

Happy power sliding.


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## John Shortsleev

*Weighted SG+*

To answer one of the original questions, it is possible to get the new gray SG+ car to run similar to a G-Jet at 12 volts. Here is a list of parts I used.
BSRT #221 .008 pickup springs - $1.00
#875 or #248 pickup shoes - $1.50
#878 G-Jet front axle assy. - $5.00
#892 G-Jet .120 brass traction weights - $5.00
And if you want to use slip on silicone tires 
#994, 995, or 996 narrow wheels - $2.95
#36_ narrow silicone tires to get overall diameter to .450

The car is faster than the G-Jet with the 6.0 arm but the car works very well with a hardbody, especially the new GT40.


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## christos_s

*To the point! ty*



John Shortsleev said:


> To answer one of the original questions, it is possible to get the new gray SG+ car to run similar to a G-Jet ...The car is faster than the G-Jet with the 6.0 arm but the car works very well with a hardbody, especially the new GT40.


To the point at last, thank you John


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## John Shortsleev

Christos, your welcome! Just a comment though about track voltage. These weighted cars work quite well at 12 Volts. As Marty stated in an earlier post, take the plunge and invest in the inexpensive ScaleAuto 12 volt power supply. You won't regret it! I've been running a lot of my cars at 12 volts lately and having a good time.

Marty and AFXTOO, I'm confused by your earlier posts stating that no weights will fit the SG+ chassis. I agree that the front weight package will not work due to the different front chassis design differences but the thin .120 rear weights fit like a glove. 

Just for comparison and to give food for thought:
G-Jet set up to MARC rules (9 ohm arm, heavy front weight, .120 rear weights with spacers and MARC spec slip-on silicones at .450 diameter with Lexan body - 18.4 grams.
New style gray SG+ roller with the parts listed in previous post and slip-on silicones at .450 diameter with GT40 hardbody - 19.9 grams.
Average difference in lap times between the two - .10 with the quicker car being the SG+ with 6+ ohm arm
I'm really impressed with the SG+ and hardbody combo.....I'll be building another car soon just to make sure I don't have a factory freak!

One more thing - All testing done on Tomy track and here is the disclaimer - Your results may differ!


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## AfxToo

> but the thin .120 rear weights fit like a glove


John, very good to know about the thin weight set working, thanks for the insight. I really like the new SG+ chassis too. At less than $15 for a roller, it's a great deal.


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## Manning

I stuck a bunch of lead on a SG+ after removing the traction mags shortly after the Gjets came out, just to see what would happen. Ran it with wall warts on my 4 x 9 1/2 foot 4 laner.

Fun in a challenging sort of way. Took a decent amount of concentration (shows my lack of skillz)..... Really needed less volts....

I still want to try a real Gjet at the intended voltage..........


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## 1976Cordoba

AfxToo said:


> John, very good to know about the thin weight set working, thanks for the insight. I really like the new SG+ chassis too. At less than $15 for a roller, it's a great deal.


The 9 ohm G-Jet arm is $5 if you can spare a few bucks to swap out the G+ 6'er. That, the weights and the hard body may be a good combo.


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