# Alclad Questions



## whiskeyrat (May 7, 2012)

Hey fellas, I've seen more than a few builds on the cars forum that have Alclad paint used for the chrome and various metallic finishes. I really like the finish that can be achieved with them. I understand they are lacquers, which I have almost no experience with. I really want to get more information before I start pouring them into my airbrush cup. 

The questions I hope to get some answers for:

1) I'm assuming lacquer thinner is the best product for thinning and cleaning up? Any other types of thinners/cleaners?

2) I purchased a set of 5 bottles: Burnt Iron, Chrome, Jet Exhaust, Steel, and Gray Primer/Microfiller. Are there any other commonly used Alclad metallics I should consider for cars in particular?

3) What are the advantages and drawbacks of lacquers versus ordinary enamels or acrylics? I have been somewhat disappointed in the acrylic metallics from most manufacturers, they just don't seem to carry the luster of true metals at scale.

4) How hard is it to clean up your airbrush after using lacquers? Is it best to completely strip and clean the brush after spraying each color to prevent cross-contamination? Or will a simple wash out with lacquer thinner between colors suffice? Do the metallics tend to clog airbrushes?

5) On the bottles the labels say "DO NOT THIN". Is that a *set-in-stone-don't-you-dare-disobey-it* rule? Or can they be thinned to create washes and paler hues without compromising the paint?

6) What are the safety concerns/precautions I should take? I'm assuming pretty much the same as usual for any paint, yes? Any other considerations?

7) How long is drying/curing time usually, given room temp and relatively low humidity? 

Any input from experienced Alclad/lacquer users is appreciated!


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## vypurr59 (Sep 25, 2011)

I will try to answer your questions
1 Only use lacquer thinner
2 Buy their black for base coat under the chrome
3 Advantage to lacquer, dries faster and is a harder finish, can be rubbed to a luster in as little as 1 hour
4 I usually clean my airbrush after each color, to not cross contaminate. But I only pull the needle and seat only, along with cup or bottle and siphon tubes
5 I have thinned to use as a wash, but I prefer using the acrylics as washes, instead of lacquers. Thin as needed to spray, but most lacquers are thin enough out of bottle
6 Wear a mask, or respirator at least to protect lungs. May not harm now, but later in life it could.
7 dries in 10-15 minutes for re-coat, ready to buff in an hour

Hope this helps. I usually shoot nail polish with lacquer thinner, and I mist on coats to build a consistent finish. I would not try to shoot a wet coat at first attempt, but would rather build the coats, then shoot a final wet coat.


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## scottnkat (May 11, 2006)

I don't consider myself an expert, but I have been using the Alclad lacquers for a couple of years now. Here's my opinions on your questions:

1) For cleaning, I use plain old lacquer thinner. I don't get anything fancy - I use the cheap stuff at WalMart. Nothing special needed for cleanup at all

2) Other colors that you may wanna consider depending on the type of car you are doing would be aluminum, magnesium, and stainless steel. 

3) I don't use acrylics so I can't compare to those paints, but lacquers dry faster and are typically more durable than the enamels that I've used. They also spray very nicely. The only downside compared to enamels that I can think of is that you can cover up blemishes with enamels - not so with the Alclad lacquers. You need a good smooth surface for those. 

4) I have one airbrush that is only used for Alclad. I strip it and take it apart about once a year. Most of the time, clean up is very easy and all it takes is using lacquer thinner to clean the airbrush, then running more lacquer thinner through it until it comes out clean. The metallic flakes do not clog the airbrush, and I use a small tip and needle. 

5) I've never tried thinning them, so I can give no opinion on this.

6) Nothing new here, either - the same safety concerns you would have when spraying other lacquers - use in a well-ventilated area (my spray booth) and I use a filter mask. 

7) You lay the Alclad on in thin layers. Usually, the layers will be dry to the touch in about 10 minutes - I do try to allow 24 hours before actually gluing the parts on, but it's probably not necessary. 

Hope that helps.


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## whiskeyrat (May 7, 2012)

vypurr59 said:


> I will try to answer your questions
> 1 Only use lacquer thinner
> 2 Buy their black for base coat under the chrome
> 3 Advantage to lacquer, dries faster and is a harder finish, can be rubbed to a luster in as little as 1 hour
> ...


It does help indeed *vypurr*! When you say to buy their Black paint for a base coat under the chrome, is it because the Black serves as a better color than the grey primer? What effect on the metallic finish does the black have, versus using the grey primer only as my base? Also, when you have thinned and used them as a wash, do you airbrush or hand brush on the wash? 



scottnkat said:


> I don't consider myself an expert, but I have been using the Alclad lacquers for a couple of years now. Here's my opinions on your questions:
> 
> 1) For cleaning, I use plain old lacquer thinner. I don't get anything fancy - I use the cheap stuff at WalMart. Nothing special needed for cleanup at all
> 
> ...


Helps a ton, thank you *scott*! I understand what you are saying about enamels being heavy enough to cover blemishes... but the lacquers are too thin to do so? That would seem to make sense, because as I shake the bottles I purchased, the paint already seems extremely thin, and one of the first things I thought was : "Hmmm...thin coats..." What are your thoughts on wet sanding between coats? I've always thought it would be damn near impossible to wet sand every nook and cranny on a car between spraying successive coats...do you sometimes find there are spots you missed/could not get to?


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## vypurr59 (Sep 25, 2011)

The black is needed under the chrome to make it look like chrome. If you paint it over a grey, you will get a soft silver instead of chrome.
I have not used the metallics so I can not answer that
I brush on my washes.
I do not water sand, but use Novus #2 to rub out my finishes. And yes some nooks and crannies are hard to get, but if you can get it close enough, you should be able to blend it all together. Q-tips also to buff the polish in the crevices also works well.


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## -Hemi- (May 5, 2014)

Whiskey,
First off, I too am no pro at the use of this, BUT, I do use a lot and I do stress the word/phrase "A LOT" here of lacquer paints.......

My reply to what you asked will be in *BOLD* font!

1) I'm assuming lacquer thinner is the best product for thinning and cleaning up? Any other types of thinners/cleaners?

*I would NOT thin ANY of the Alclad finishes.....They are water thin right out of the bottle they bought in!*

2) I purchased a set of 5 bottles: Burnt Iron, Chrome, Jet Exhaust, Steel, and Gray Primer/Microfiller. Are there any other commonly used Alclad metallics I should consider for cars in particular?

*On each bottle, THERE are instructions on how to use it. ALL ARE NOT the same, follow to the letter, and the outcome will be as expected! GLOSS BLACK for the "primer" or base coat to get a GREAT polishable "Chrome" finish! Sounds crazy, but works! *

3) What are the advantages and drawbacks of lacquers versus ordinary enamels or acrylics? I have been somewhat disappointed in the acrylic metallics from most manufacturers, they just don't seem to carry the luster of true metals at scale.

*Lacquers dry relatively fast, dry to the touch in 10 minutes or so, and can be polished easily in one hour. Drawback, weather, temperature. paint/use in a normal setting of room temperature, DO NOT spray in cold climates, in other words, out side if its freezing, the cold will make ANY gloss Lacquer paint seem "flat"! It will NOT react well to ANY Arcylics, or wet conditions outside when sprayed, most times it will "Fisheye".*

4) How hard is it to clean up your airbrush after using lacquers? Is it best to completely strip and clean the brush after spraying each color to prevent cross-contamination? Or will a simple wash out with lacquer thinner between colors suffice? Do the metallics tend to clog airbrushes?

*I myself use regular ole paint thinner "Mineral Spirits" for cleaning purposes, you get a decent amount for less the coin instead of using Lacquer thinner for cleaning I only use the real "Lacquer thinner" for thinning paint to be sprayed, NOT to clean! The difference? Paint thinner will take a bit to evaporate, whereas Lacquer thinner does pretty quickly.....As far as "metallic" paint, use a heavy spray nozel, and they ought to not clog, a FINE spray nozel, yes! As the paint actually does have "Metal" dust in it to come out with the paint......Which makes the consistency, "thicker" then normal paint....THIN this stuff, carefully, it won'tturn out as its said to otherwise! *

5) On the bottles the labels say "DO NOT THIN". Is that a set-in-stone-don't-you-dare-disobey-it rule? Or can they be thinned to create washes and paler hues without compromising the paint?

*At your own risk, it can and will ruin the paint! Its thinned for painting right from the bottle! This is something Alclad is known for! The paint being thinned will be a "wash" of a lighter version then what your looking for with the color name....*

6) What are the safety concerns/precautions I should take? I'm assuming pretty much the same as usual for any paint, yes? Any other considerations?

*Protect your lungs as mentioned, is about the best advice any one painter can give to another.... NO paint (Lacquer, Arcylic, etc, is good for you to breath in. that "overspray" you get with any paint, is the first thing to STICK to the inside of your lungs! So yes, it does have some dangers BUT a filter to keep that "out" is best, doesn't have to be anything "major", or serious!*

7) How long is drying/curing time usually, given room temp and relatively low humidity? 

*In the best of conditions, 10 to maybe 20 minutes depending on humidity..... dry in good conditions in one hour, AGAIN in good conditions........

Hope this helps!*


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## scottnkat (May 11, 2006)

whiskeyrat said:


> What are your thoughts on wet sanding between coats? I've always thought it would be damn near impossible to wet sand every nook and cranny on a car between spraying successive coats...do you sometimes find there are spots you missed/could not get to?


I've never wet sanded between coats of Alclad, so I can't comment. When I do find that there's a spot that I've missed, I'll simply turn the part around on the stick that's holding it and spray that spot once the rest has dried.


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## RMC (Aug 11, 2004)

I shoot the alclad straight,.....
to get the desired finish after you spray the base coat your supposed to use the clear base over it...thats what the website says and it works great


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## whiskeyrat (May 7, 2012)

*vypurr, Hemi, scott, RMC*...thank you everyone for the input, this is _immense_ help. I'm trying to branch out a little bit with my paints to broaden my skills... The Alclad metallics are some of the best looking finishes I've seen besides BMF, and I really want to try them out, but I know myself well enough to know I can blunder into it blindly, and make costly and hard-to-fix mistakes, if I'm not careful. *vypurr* I'll try out a bottle of the Novus. Does that provide the final finish or do you usually do a clear coat? Sorry, newb questions!


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## vypurr59 (Sep 25, 2011)

Novus is a fine polishing compound, finer than the rubbing compounds, I still clearcoat, if going for a wet look finish. Going for a stock 70/80s finish, the Novus would be fine for that


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## whiskeyrat (May 7, 2012)

vypurr59 said:


> Novus is a fine polishing compound, finer than the rubbing compounds, I still clearcoat, if going for a wet look finish. Going for a stock 70/80s finish, the Novus would be fine for that


Thanks *vypurr*!

One last question: can lacquers be sprayed over acrylics? Will the lacquer attack the acrylic base coat? I know that you're not supposed to use differing paints but I'm wondering if that particular rule can be flouted...


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## RMC (Aug 11, 2004)

whiskeyrat said:


> Thanks *vypurr*!
> 
> One last question: can lacquers be sprayed over acrylics? Will the lacquer attack the acrylic base coat? I know that you're not supposed to use differing paints but I'm wondering if that particular rule can be flouted...


NO !.........Laquer should not be sprayed over acrylics


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## -Hemi- (May 5, 2014)

BULL................

I spray Testors Dullcote flat lacquer over acrylics all the time.............Gloss clear might be different.....wait no, I've used dullcote, clear, sealed the painting and decals on a tank car, used water based acrylic to make oil spills, and then gloss coated right over it to give a "wet" spill look, and never had an issue doing it, you just have to allow the acrylic to CURE not just "dry" to the touch.....CURED, lacquer shouldn't have a bit of trouble or for the amount I have sprayed, I haven't had a single problem with it!


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## whiskeyrat (May 7, 2012)

*Hemi* I did a little surfing around and I did find some examples of lacquers over acrylics, so it looks like you're correct about being able to use them on the same model. I need to get up the nerve to start with my lacquers and get used to them before I begin layering them over acrylics though.


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## vypurr59 (Sep 25, 2011)

Sorry about the mis information I gave, I read my notes wrong, here is what I got just remember the golden rule.. enamel over lacquer.. but not the other way around.. you will need a good lacquer base primer if you're going to shoot lacquer base paints..any type of paint can be sprayed over acrylics.. I use lacquer medium temp reducer for enamels, and for lacquers.. enamel paint will dry as quickly as lacquer base paint will, with a lacquer based reducer.. I'd recommend House of Kolor brand RU311.. Then get some cheap lacquer thinner just for airbrush cleaning... acrylics can be reduced with multi medias, such as water, windex, and even future floor polish... get some white plastic spoons and experiment away..


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## -Hemi- (May 5, 2014)

Honestly, I have yet to have ANY "Lacquer" clears flat or gloss, to react badly over ANY Enamel, Acrylic, or otherwise.....The key tho, is making SURE 200% that the last color applied, is CURE. not just "dry" the color has to sit in some cases 7 DAYS to cure............Then your able to "seal" with lacquer based clear coats.....


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## whiskeyrat (May 7, 2012)

vypurr59 said:


> Sorry about the mis information I gave, I read my notes wrong, here is what I got just remember the golden rule.. enamel over lacquer.. but not the other way around.. you will need a good lacquer base primer if you're going to shoot lacquer base paints..any type of paint can be sprayed over acrylics.. I use lacquer medium temp reducer for enamels, and for lacquers.. enamel paint will dry as quickly as lacquer base paint will, with a lacquer based reducer.. I'd recommend House of Kolor brand RU311.. Then get some cheap lacquer thinner just for airbrush cleaning... acrylics can be reduced with multi medias, such as water, windex, and even future floor polish... get some white plastic spoons and experiment away..


Awesome info, thanks *vypurr*... I did get a bottle of lacquer primer/microfiller for the Alclads, so I think I'm good there. I started out with enamels many years ago when I was a kid but never discovered acrylics until much later in life. The easy clean-up and better results I got with them after I tried them convinced me that acrylics were the way to go, so I never paid much attention to lacquers, until now. Seems like the lacquers will give me the truly metallic-looking finish that acrylics just can't, for whatever reason. And yes, I'll definitely be getting as much practice as possible with these before I aim my lacquer-loaded airbrush at ANY of my builds... 



-Hemi- said:


> Honestly, I have yet to have ANY "Lacquer" clears flat or gloss, to react badly over ANY Enamel, Acrylic, or otherwise.....The key tho, is making SURE 200% that the last color applied, is CURE. not just "dry" the color has to sit in some cases 7 DAYS to cure............Then your able to "seal" with lacquer based clear coats.....


Thanks for the input *Hemi*... I understand exactly what you mean about letting the paint CURE rather than just letting it DRY. There is a significant difference in the paint after a few days cure time. I'm going to be brave and try shooting over acrylic just to see what kind of color changes I get. Wish me luck!


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## -Hemi- (May 5, 2014)

Whiskey, I dunno 'bout wishing you luck, its not really all the different, BESIDES clean up! (and a bit of smell) BUT the wishing part from me? HAVE FUN doing it! I LOVE painting so.....IF you have fun doing it, then you won't suffer through it! :thumbsup:


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