# Tamiya paints and hand brushing



## Magesblood (May 12, 2008)

Why is it that Tamiya paints don't seem to brush on as well as other paints?

Testors acryl brushes on beautifully so does the enamel based ones but for some reason, Tamiya doesn't.


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## buzzconroy (Jun 28, 2002)

your best bet is to look in the archives.
Lots of info on this very topic, this question been asked many times.

buzz


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## Cro-Magnon Man (Jun 11, 2001)

That was a nice friendly forum discussion for you, Magesb., wasn't it?:dude:


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

This has been talked about a bit. Tamiya paints can be hand painted over large areas, but its not the easiest thing to do.

You need to mix the paints really well, and perhaps thin them a touch. You want the paint to go on "wet" so it flows together on the surface of the model. DO NOT go back and brush it around. You won't make brush strokes go away by mopping the paint around on the surface of the model! Then, let it dry a day or two before applying another coat on top, if necessary. In most cases with any paint, enamel or acrylic, you need two or three coats of paint. While "acrylic" Tamiya paint is solvent based and will lift up the first coat if you are not careful. I find on figures that have some texture they paint quite well. They do less well on very smooth flat surfaces. I would not want to brush paint a big Star Trek model with them, for example.

My Aurora Wolfman was done with Tamiya paints...










The PL Hulk was sprayed with Tamiya Park Green spray paint but the pants and details were brush painted with their acrylic paints










And PL's Hunchback was all hand painted with Tamiya paints










Likewise PL's Gorilla General was also painted largely with Tamiya shades. The cloth color is Hull Red mixed with Flat Red.










You may try mixing in some acrylic retarder or flow enhancers. Grumbacher makes these, but so do the craft paint brands like Plaid and Apple Barrel.


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## rkoenn (Dec 18, 2007)

I wouldn't brush any large surface with any paint, acrylic or enamel. There may be some true experts who could get a nice brush on job over a large flat surface but even though I have painted since I was 7 or 8 years old I know I couldn't. In fact for very large surfaces I would be tempted to use a rattle can unless I have to mix some specific color. I have brushed Tamiya acrylics on models for small detail areas and haven't had much trouble. And I have dry brushed them with good results as well.


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## kenlee (Feb 11, 2010)

djnick66 said:


> This has been talked about a bit. Tamiya paints can be hand painted over large areas, but its not the easiest thing to do.
> 
> You need to mix the paints really well, and perhaps thin them a touch. You want the paint to go on "wet" so it flows together on the surface of the model. DO NOT go back and brush it around. You won't make brush strokes go away by mopping the paint around on the surface of the model! Then, let it dry a day or two before applying another coat on top, if necessary. In most cases with any paint, enamel or acrylic, you need two or three coats of paint. While "acrylic" Tamiya paint is solvent based and will lift up the first coat if you are not careful. I find on figures that have some texture they paint quite well. They do less well on very smooth flat surfaces. I would not want to brush paint a big Star Trek model with them, for example.
> 
> ...


Excellent work!
I will add some more tips for painting with Tamiya acrylics, brush in only one direction. For some reason brushing "against the grain" of an already painted area causes the paint to smear or lift off the painted area. This seems to happen even after the paint has dried. 
I have also found that with the flat colors if you overcoat it with Testors dullcoat, it will help even out the finish and also help hide some visible brush strokes.
Also, don't shake the paint to mix it, stir only. Shaking adds air bubles to the paint that can suddenly show up after the paint dries.


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## kenlee (Feb 11, 2010)

rkoenn said:


> I wouldn't brush any large surface with any paint, acrylic or enamel. There may be some true experts who could get a nice brush on job over a large flat surface but even though I have painted since I was 7 or 8 years old I know I couldn't. In fact for very large surfaces I would be tempted to use a rattle can unless I have to mix some specific color. I have brushed Tamiya acrylics on models for small detail areas and haven't had much trouble. And I have dry brushed them with good results as well.


I agree, Tamiya acrylics are my favorite paints for dry brushing. You can also use a brush dipped in alcohol to effectively blend the colors after they dry and strip the paint if you are not pleased with the look. Alcohol is also a very effective stripper for the tamiya sprays.


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## Dr. Brad (Oct 5, 1999)

Hadn't noticed earlier discussions of this, but I'm glad it was brought up again. Thanks for the tips!


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## Magesblood (May 12, 2008)

fyi. I found that acryl works if you brush it on over a large area until it dries. Keep at it and it results in a nice finish. Minimal brush stroke marks. It would be ideal to airbrush it but my regulator is shot.


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## buzzconroy (Jun 28, 2002)

Cro-Magnon Man said:


> That was a nice friendly forum discussion for you, Magesb., wasn't it?:dude:


Enough with the snide remarks, just helping him out.Thats what the archives for, grow up.

Randy


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## Magesblood (May 12, 2008)

enough.

just asking a question. There's no need to turn it into a federal case.

A) I should have looked it up first

B) if you're going to tell me to look something up, you have to suggest it to others who ask questions about stuff that's already been posted.


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## Magesblood (May 12, 2008)

and it figures that I gave away my other regulator.


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## halcyon_daze (Jan 6, 2004)

I've also noticed that the Tamiya's "brushability" varies from pigment to pigment. Some colors brush more easily than others. I don't know enough about paint chemistry to explain exactly why that is. 

As already mentioned, if you thin it properly and also make sure your brush is wet, they can be hand brushed effectively. Retarder and flow-aid can and do help, I use the Liquitex products that can be found at most craft stores. A couple of drops of each will do ya. 

Personally though, I've found the Vallejo line far superior for hand brushing but on the downside they seem to take a lot longer than Tamiya to cure...but they can be brushed right out of the bottle, no thinning required but if you find a need to thin it plain old cheap water suffices. Also, I've never found Vallejo stocked by any LHS's - only online.

To a lesser extent the MM acryls brush more easily too, but with those I've had adherence issues...primer is more or less a necessity since they mostly don't adhere well to a bare plastic surface in my experience.


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

Vallejo paints are excellent. Their adhesion is poorish... they do not stick at all to bare plastic and must go over a primer. Vallejo makes the paint for Andrea and its the same formula. Games Workshop acrylics brush paint nicely as well. Again they need a primer. If you apply those to bare plastic they just bead up. Humbrol Acrylic paints (available in the US via www.airfix-usa.com ) are excellent. I use these quite often now. They will go down over bare plastic or a painted surface.

FYI Tamiya makes an enamel range that matches their acrylics.


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## halcyon_daze (Jan 6, 2004)

djnick66 said:


> Vallejo paints are excellent. Their adhesion is poorish... they do not stick at all to bare plastic and must go over a primer. Vallejo makes the paint for Andrea and its the same formula. Games Workshop acrylics brush paint nicely as well. Again they need a primer. If you apply those to bare plastic they just bead up. Humbrol Acrylic paints (available in the US via www.airfix-usa.com ) are excellent. I use these quite often now. They will go down over bare plastic or a painted surface.
> 
> FYI Tamiya makes an enamel range that matches their acrylics.


Thanks for the tips...I'll have to give the Humbrol a try sometime. What do you thin them with, or do they need to be thinned at all particularly for airbrushing?


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

I have not airbrushed them (yet). I thin them for brush painting using tap water. You need to thin them a bit which is kinda obvious... they are very thick. I add maybe 20% water (slowly).


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## halcyon_daze (Jan 6, 2004)

Cool, thanks!


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## otto (Jan 1, 1970)

I hand brush everything, though for vehicles I would like to get an airbrush. I've had poor luck with Tamiya paints, I used to use Humbrol years ago with good results and later switched to craft paints from Michaels, Americana, Folk art and Creamcote. They all work GREAT for handbrushing, they are cheap, mix well and cover well and they go on in thin coats not obscuring fine details ( one of the things I liked about Humbrols). I dont think I'd ever switch back to model paint unless I get an airbrush.


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## Dave P (Jan 5, 2005)

djnick66 said:


> I have not airbrushed them (yet). I thin them for brush painting using tap water. You need to thin them a bit which is kinda obvious... they are very thick. I add maybe 20% water (slowly).


They airbrush very nicely. Give it a go!


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## rkoenn (Dec 18, 2007)

I've airbrushed Tamiya paints with very good results. But as Nick says, they are thick in the bottle and need a fair amount of thinning to air brush. 

Now for some real time data. Just last night I got back to work on my Batmobile. I have been doing the car and the figures. A couple of days ago I brushed some of the green on Robin with Testors acrylic green but the color wasn't dark enough. So last night I pulled out my bottle of Tamiya green and brushed over the Testors. The Tamiya was somewhat different to brush on. It was more like globbing it on. I had to have a fair amount on the brush and then carefully applied it. It would cover fine that way. However, if you rebrushed over it, it would actually come off the figure. Trying to cover that again didn't work to well. So it appears that doing more brushing with it was going to be problematic. I got it fairly well covered and will do a second coat tonight which I believe will cover it. It is a nice rich color and I don't dislike it because of this.

I then decided to brush some Tamiya metal gray on some of the underbody protrusions on the frame. The frame was previously air brushed with Tamiya German gray, which went on fine, and then sealed with Testors dull kote. This metal gray paint was brushed on with none of the problems I experienced with the green. I also had to do some touch up with the German gray and that was easily accomplished as well. I think someone else mentioned that some of the colors are difficult and some easy. This would verify that for me. Air brushing I have none of these problems but obviously detail work can't be done with an air brush.

Bob


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

Tamiya paints airbrush well. For brush painting you need to let them dry a day or two between layers. Or just use another type of paint.


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## halcyon_daze (Jan 6, 2004)

djnick66 said:


> I have not airbrushed them (yet). I thin them for brush painting using tap water. You need to thin them a bit which is kinda obvious... they are very thick. I add maybe 20% water (slowly).


I just gave Humbrol a shot thinned with water, and I couldn't get it to spray well at all...lots of sputtering, spitting, and thinning it even more didn't seem to help.

However, thinned with Tamiya thinner and a few drops of flow aid and the result was much better. A little surprising given that the Airfix site says to thin the Humbrol acryls with water, but I did a search and this is what some people recommend thinning them with.


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

I dont thin any acrylic with water, at least for airbrushing. Tamiya lacquer thiinner or Mr. Color (lacquer thinner) also work well in the Humbrol acrylics.

I am not a huge fan of acrylic metallics, and the Humbrols were really thick, gritty and gloppy. The lacquer based thinners, combined with a Badger electric paint stirrer, made them very smooth and fairly decent!


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## halcyon_daze (Jan 6, 2004)

djnick66 said:


> I dont thin any acrylic with water, at least for airbrushing. Tamiya lacquer thiinner or Mr. Color (lacquer thinner) also work well in the Humbrol acrylics.


Lacquer thinner for acrylics?? Never tried this, seems counterintuitive for acylic paints.


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

halcyon_daze said:


> Lacquer thinner for acrylics?? Never tried this, seems counterintuitive for acylic paints.


Acrylic refers to the base of the paint. There are water based paints like temperas and gouache. Tamiya paints are more of an acrylic enamel. They are solvent based but can be thinned with water. Lacquer thinner is unique in that it sort of takes on the properties of what you put it in. You can thin Tamiya paints with lacquer thinner (they now sell their own plastic safe version, which is very good). The nice thing is that it improves flow, cuts down on glopping up the airbrush. and the thinner is great for cleaning out the brush. You can soak an airbrush with dried acrylic in water for a year and the paint wont losen up. But spray some lacquer thinner through it or soak the nozzles in it for a few mins, and its as clean ass new.


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## halcyon_daze (Jan 6, 2004)

djnick66 said:


> Acrylic refers to the base of the paint. There are water based paints like temperas and gouache. Tamiya paints are more of an acrylic enamel. They are solvent based but can be thinned with water. Lacquer thinner is unique in that it sort of takes on the properties of what you put it in. You can thin Tamiya paints with lacquer thinner (they now sell their own plastic safe version, which is very good). The nice thing is that it improves flow, cuts down on glopping up the airbrush. and the thinner is great for cleaning out the brush. You can soak an airbrush with dried acrylic in water for a year and the paint wont losen up. But spray some lacquer thinner through it or soak the nozzles in it for a few mins, and its as clean ass new.


Clean *ass *new eh? :freak: LOL...sorry I couldn't resist.

Usually I use lacquer thinner only when I've used lacquer-based paints, with the acryls I usually clean up with Windex followed by water.

Now that I think about it, I recall reading about people using lacquer thinner with the Tamiya acryls, and was a little mystified by it for the reason I already mentioned. Time for a little experimentation. And I hadn't heard that Tamiya was now making a "plastic safe" lacquer thinner.


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

Tamiya's plastic safe thinner is the same type stuff as Gunze Mr. Color thinner. Its not cheap. Item 87077 is a 250ml bottle and it runs about $10. It is, however, VERY good. Use the hardware store stuff for cleaning your airbrush and the good stuff for brush or airbrush painting.


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## halcyon_daze (Jan 6, 2004)

djnick66 said:


> Tamiya's plastic safe thinner is the same type stuff as Gunze Mr. Color thinner. Its not cheap. Item 87077 is a 250ml bottle and it runs about $10. It is, however, VERY good. Use the hardware store stuff for cleaning your airbrush and the good stuff for brush or airbrush painting.


Wow I just tried airbrushing Tamiya XF-1 (Flat Black) diluted with Mr. Color thinner and a couple of drops of Mr. Retarder Mild with a 0.35 mm needle/nozzle on my Iwata HP-CS, and I was able to spray pencil thin lines consistently with it...something I've not really been able to do very well before with any paint.

I hear you can thin the Gunze Aqueous line with Mr. Color thinner too. If it performs anything like the Tamiya, this should be really useful on one of my projects that's going to get a complex freehand mottling paint job using the aqueous paints (a Heinkel 219 Uhu, closet out-of-the-bottle match for the 2 RLM colors I need that I could find), since that's all fine line work.


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

Yes you can thin the (now no longer imported to the US) Gunze Aqueous Hobby Color paints with Mr. Color thinner. You might want to skip the Mr. Retarder and just buy Mr. Self Levelling Thinner. SLT has the retarder built in. FYI the Mr. Color thinner and retarder are intended to go with their excellent Mr. Color lacquer paint series. Until a year or so ago, the Mr. Color paints were not sold in the US. Now it is reversed and the Aqueous Hobby Color range is not imported but the excellent Lacquers are sold here now. All of the "Gunze" products have Mr. as part of their name as the parent company is Mr. Hobby. So you get Mr. Retarder (mild), Mr. Plastic Board, Mr. Empty Jar, Mr. Color, Mr. Surfacer, etc.


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## halcyon_daze (Jan 6, 2004)

djnick66 said:


> Yes you can thin the (now no longer imported to the US) Gunze Aqueous Hobby Color paints with Mr. Color thinner. You might want to skip the Mr. Retarder and just buy Mr. Self Levelling Thinner. SLT has the retarder built in. FYI the Mr. Color thinner and retarder are intended to go with their excellent Mr. Color lacquer paint series. Until a year or so ago, the Mr. Color paints were not sold in the US. Now it is reversed and the Aqueous Hobby Color range is not imported but the excellent Lacquers are sold here now. All of the "Gunze" products have Mr. as part of their name as the parent company is Mr. Hobby. So you get Mr. Retarder (mild), Mr. Plastic Board, Mr. Empty Jar, Mr. Color, Mr. Surfacer, etc.


Yeah I also have the leveling thinner, and have used the Mr. Color line on several occasions. I've used the Mr. Surfacer line for some time now both as a primer and for surface repair. Thanks for the info.


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