# problem



## Grampa Ho (Feb 25, 2009)

O.K. all you HO heads out there, help with some suggestions please. 
We (RCHORA) have over 7 tracks that are 6 lane of which we use the inside 5 for crash and burn racing. We just ran on our newest track that is an 8 laner. Using the inside seven of course. Running normally 5 heats in a european rotation, we have devised a point system as follows: 5-1st,4-2nd and so on to last, 5th with 1 point. The top 5 move to a feature event. At this 8 lane track we ran 7 heats with 7 points for first and so on down the line. This is a non computerized track so you only get points for finishing. Some regulars were not able to make the show and lost a lot of ground as we have both track champions and an overall champ. How can we compensate for the difference? Should we have givin points to only the top 5 finishers as per usual?
Just looking for ideas mind you but with all the types of HO racing going on Maybe someone has come across this problem.
Thanks in advance and looking forward to any response.
Rich (Crazy Ho) Grampa Ho


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

Great question, love this style of racing.
If you have records of all your races and finishes, I would convert all your points to the eight laner points. Meaning, even on the 5 lane races, you would give 7 points to the winner. This will still give extra points on the 8 laner because you have more people running, but that just means its a bigger, more important race, kinda like Daytona. Or you could only give the regular points at this track(5) to the winner, which means the people at the back don't get any points for having a bad day.

Just my 2 pecos,
Rich


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## partspig (Mar 12, 2003)

*Crash & Burn points!*

We used to have the same problem when we raced crash and burn. We had one eight lane track, a six lane track and the others were all four lanes. So we used three points for finishing first, two points for second, and if any of the others stayed on for the heat they got a point. It was also a lot easier for the race director to keep track of everything this way and rewarded the drivers for finishing, and kept the points pigs happy!  partspig


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## martybauer31 (Jan 27, 2004)

I agree with NTx, we race timed heats up here, but folks get points a good distance down the placing order and they get to throw out their worst performance. First place gets 25, 2nd gets 23, and so on down the line. Top qualifier for the day gets an extra 2 points.

Hopefully you have your standings for the previous races so you can go back and give points for the folks down through 7th place.


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## 22tall (Jul 28, 2002)

What is Europeon rotation?

I went to an event where they used that that point system and you had to do the qualify thing. 36 people split into 6 groups. The first 6 were clearly faster than the last 6. In group 1 the same guy won every heat. 30 points. The second place finisher was also the same person. Very close races. 24 points. Even though number 2 was clearly one of the best he did not qualify for the finals. Not enough points. The winner of group 6 was lapped in three of the final heats. I don't care for that kind of scoring.

We allow make up races. Things happen. That takes away the idea of being so far behind they have no chance. One year the make up race consisted of 2 tjets,a Tomy turbo, one SG+ and 2 P3Es. 

We go with timed races with the track split into 10 sections you get credit for.


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## Grampa Ho (Feb 25, 2009)

In european rotation, drivers move from lane 1 to lane 3 then lane 5 then lane 4 then finish on lane 2. That is for 5 lanes. For 7 lanes, 1-3-5-7-6-4-2


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

22,

I too prefer time and distance racing, but not to the point I would not race at clubs that use 5-4-3-2-1. You go in the door knowing what you might end up with.

I have wondered about doing that kind of racing, but having all the drivers graded and seeded. That way you would not get the situations which spoil points racing, for example where 4 aces keep meeting and taking points off each other and so the 5th best guy on the night 'wins'.

The race sorting would then be of the 'controlled random' type.


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## Grampa Ho (Feb 25, 2009)

One of the good things about our club is that among 10-15 drivers, anyone is capable of winning. When we race our longer marshalled events, we do group according to our points and give some of the back markers a chance to win a major race of their own. When we race C&B it is nice not to be next to the same car every race. With european rotation you do not have that.
I like all the responces I have got so far, but there must be a more uniform way to get around this. Looking at giving points retro for all we have done this year would not be viable. Keep the suggestions coming and I will forward those to the group.


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

Perhaps you should do the retro thing for now, but make it clear in the future you won't do so. Say that the 8 lane races are more special and worth more points, deal with it.


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

Well, for this season, it looks like using the same points system you have used, and giving the points to the first five places in the heat, and none to the last two, seems to be the best option for you. You wouldn't have to alter the points for the season up to this point.


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## Grampa Ho (Feb 25, 2009)

I agree with you Rich as it would be the least complicated method. But, throwing out a ? like this has givin me some good thoughts like I knew it would.


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## martybauer31 (Jan 27, 2004)

Too bad you can't go back and give points, too many races to go through?

We also use the European rotation, so if you get put next to a hammer, you aren't racing next to them the whole time (sometimes the hammer is me  ). 

The other thing we do is run a qualifying round where racers are randomly dropped into heats, we run those heats and lap totals put people into their main groups. In the lower level mains (D and E for example, there will be one move up). The mid mains (B and C, there will be 2, maybe 3 move ups to meet the 3 or 4 qualifiers with the most laps in the A main.

The nice thing is, if you are a good racer having a bad start, you can still have a shot to move up through the mains. Or heck, a not so good racer having a great day gets to run with the big dogs, which is certainly more than fair as well.

This Saturday, I worked my way from the C to the A in G-Jets, and in our Box Stock class got shut down in the C main so anything can happen.

The nice thing is points are given out fairly far down the line, so even though I didn't do all that well in the second race, I still have some points to add up.


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## dkreibich (Mar 11, 2009)

what we ended up doing for the RCHORA night is first drop the two lowest point totals (for most of us that was a couple of zeros for coming off) then go back to the old points system 5 for 1st and what not on down the line. No race finished with all 7 drivers so we didn't have that problem, but I believe we had a couple with 6. Our points guy gave both 5th and 6th a point. The feature which featured 7 drivers was scored the same way (5 for 1st, 4 for 2nd) This brought the points back down to where they should be rather than almost doubling the nights points. I think it was the fairest decision we could of done. Thanks for everyones suggestions! I dont know if Rich "Grampa Ho" had some involvement in getting the points switched but it was the right call. Unfortunately it sucks for me! I can only make a few nights here and there during the weeks because I'm in school and I was raking up the points and gained a lot of ground back  Oh well! You can check out the site for what we at RCHORA are doing constantly.

the points haven't been switched yet. I added them all up with how we first did the points for the last race so if you check within a couple of hours they might not be done yet. 

Drew Kreibich
www.rchora.com


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## Mexkilbee (Apr 17, 2008)

All ready stated but @ the place i used to race @ regularly, it was 5-1st, 4-2nd, 3-3rd, and 2-4th, and everyone else that finished the race got a point. that was on a Ten Lane Tomy track. Everyone ran through the lanes, three heats a lane, at the end of the night it was easy to see who won, 20/20 hindsight the guy that finished all the races because if you had stayed on and finished all the races that would generally have been enough to give you the win. 
Just remember wether it's timed or points, "The cream allways rises"


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## Grampa Ho (Feb 25, 2009)

You got it Mex. But I don't ALWAYS win. And Drew, Puk and I tossed idea's back and forth and he decided on that system


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## afxgns (Jul 6, 2006)

We run modified crash and burn(we get two wrecks) 
Our points are as follows:
!st gets 1 point
2nd gets 2 points......etc.

You are running for a golf score

I know this does not help you now, but it will make all tracks equal from the top down.

Easy as cake.


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## 22tall (Jul 28, 2002)

Mexkilbee said:


> "The cream allways rises"


Not in the example I gave.


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

Gramps, I think I got it nailed.
I just thought of an idea that would make the season more exciting, and your series more marketable.
Keep running your points as you have been. This one race isn't going to throw you much of a curve because, with five races left on the schedule, you should give your top ten a 100 point bonus, and space them about 10 points apart, and see what happens. This is a proven system to bring more fans, competition, and most importantly, corporate dollars into your series. It helps to have an overly strict set of rules so you can dock points as needed to keep the series close, or to make it more marketable. I can see it now, fantasy leagues, team apparel, news, highlights, opinions, forums, fan clubs, all marketed from your site. The corporates would line up to be your "official this or that". All this building up to your last five races, or "playoffs". Yes, you'll have a champion for the season, at least for the last five races. Who cares about all the other racers.
Sound interesting?
Okay, so I copied the idea from someone else, it still works.


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## Grampa Ho (Feb 25, 2009)

And what do you suggest as a name for this series?
Could use NASCAR now that not a damn thing is stock in
that series anymore.


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

Or you could call it the Clown Clone series, brought to you by Bozo and Nicorette.


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## Grampa Ho (Feb 25, 2009)

Thanks to everyone who replied. We did come up with a solution that seems to work for everybody. 5-1st,4-2nd,3-3rd,2-4th,1 for everyone else that finished. Throw out worst 2 finishes and add um up. 
Thanks again, you all have a great day.


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