# Interaction with a local dealer



## TK Solver (Mar 18, 2004)

A local hobby shop ordered two sets of AutoWorld Ultra G cars and sold all but the Sand Vans within two days at a price of $14.98 each plus tax. It's been a month and he won't place another order because the Sand Vans are still sitting there and he's upset that he has to order an assortment again. He correctly assumes that he'll probably get another Sand Van.

I told him it sounded like he did pretty good business on the other cars and wondered why he wouldn't want to make a quick profit on another such order. He replied that he doesn't want to get stuck with another Sand Van.

I told him I didn't understand how that added up and asked him why he couldn't sell the Sand Vans at cost and just take his profits on the other cars which pretty much flew out of the store. He just stared at me for about 5 seconds, thinking. I interrupted his thought by offering to buy the Sand Vans off him for $9 each if he gave me first pick of the cars from his next order. He finally muttered, "Let me think about that..."

It just doesn't make sense to me that a dealer would rather sit on a couple cars, trying to sell them at full price rather than dump them at cost, order a new set and make a quick profit on what seems to be a popular item.

He's also sitting on some older Auto World inventory with the $14.98 price tags. A purple '71 Vette. A white #9 Camaro. An orange '55 Chevy and an orange Trans Am. All stuff he could dump at cost either through an occasional in-store sale or better yet, on the Bay.

I didn't ask if he was participating in AutoWorld's network distribution plan where dealers' inventory can be used to fill AutoWorld orders.

It's important to the hobby that the local dealers are successful. I hate to see them holding themselves back.

I did not start this thread with the intention of kindling a quarrel about AutoWorld's marketing/distribution policies. I just wanted to offer some observations. Anyone else seeing similar things at local stores in your area?


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## A/FX Nut (May 28, 2004)

TK Solver said:


> He's also sitting on some older Auto World inventory with the $14.98 price tags. A purple '71 Vette. A white #9 Camaro. An orange '55 Chevy and an orange Trans Am. All stuff he could dump at cost either through an occasional in-store sale or better yet, on the Bay.
> 
> I didn't ask if he was participating in AutoWorld's network distribution plan where dealers' inventory can be used to fill AutoWorld orders.
> 
> ...


I wish there was a local store in my area. I have to drive 40 minutes north to buy any AW / JL Cars or wait for the shows.
I'd like to have that Camaro, Vette, and Orange '55 Chevy. 

We use to race at a hobby store in Elkhart, Indiana 10 years ago. It closed 8 years ago and one of our group tried to buy the parts and some cars for a reduced price but the owner said he wanted full price. He didn't sell them. 

But he has opened a store in the NYC Railroad Museum. He had some TYCO cars at a discount but not a big one. Randy.


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## SplitPoster (May 16, 2006)

TK, you make too much sense. Some people only think in terms of turning a profit on every item, even the last one, not moving the meager remains out and moving on. Almost like they're doing it in spite of what the custormer wants, and what's good for business. Better to have money tied up in desirable inventory that will make money, not remaining bits and pieces sitting there waiting for the tag to turn yellow - you can't teach that to some people. I love the guys that put new higher price tags over the old ones, sometimes in multiples. I always buy the newest, shinest packages and leave the dusty dull ones behind.


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

LMAO Cant even give the sandvans away? Go figure.

Sooooooo? Who really created this guys problem. Who put the sawdust and worm filler in his quarter pounder with cheese?


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

Let me get this straight, you offered to pay less than cost and only if you were given further concessions to boot. That's not support, that's an insult _to him_.

TK I know you got a good head on them shoulders but c'mon, ain't it time we started saying "What can we _really _do to help the shops?". If you paid the $14.95 or whatever, maybe he'd be receptive to the "first dibs" thing...ain't that worth $10? Hell even $12 or something would show him at least some respect.

Businesses don't operate on per-piece markups, they got margins that are based on things like, oh, I dunno, the overhead that comes with providing a place to actually put your hands on something before you buy it instead of clickin' on paypal and buying from a bulk-buyin' basement hack who DOES line his pockets with lots of your money and provides nothing good for the hobby in return. 

$5 less for only two cars may not sound like much _to you_, but _to him_ it devalues the whole case including the ones he already sold. You'd actually be doing him a bigger favor if you just stole 'em, at least then he could write 'em off at full retail. :freak:


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## TK Solver (Mar 18, 2004)

Gene, I thought that giving him $18 for two cars I don't want plus pulling his head out of the sand(van) so he could get on with making money again was a good start at the bargaining table but I can see your point. I'm usually in there about once a month but I'll head over to his shop tomorrow and apologize in case he felt insulted. Thanks for your thoughts. That's one of the reasons I posted about it. I appreciate the honest remarks.


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## Crimnick (May 28, 2006)

Funny thing is...often the rarest and most valued cars later on down the line were cars that didnt sell well in the first place...


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

Late 60's early 70's Hemi Chryslers come to mind,dealers couldn't give em away :wave:


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

Crimnick said:


> Funny thing is...often the rarest and most valued cars later on down the line were cars that didnt sell well in the first place...


Agreed Crimnick,


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## Rawafx (Jul 20, 1999)

Hornet,

I am old enough to remember when Plymouth came out with the 1970 Road Runner Superbird, one year after the Dodge Charger Daytona. There was a Plymouth dealer located on U.S. Hwy. 30 in Illinois that had a new one sitting on their showroom floor well into 1972.

Bob Weichbrodt
"Rawafx"
W-S, NC


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## roadrner (Jul 21, 1999)

Rawafx said:


> Hornet,
> 
> I am old enough to remember when Plymouth came out with the 1970 Road Runner Superbird, one year after the Dodge Charger Daytona. There was a Plymouth dealer located on U.S. Hwy. 30 in Illinois that had a new one sitting on their showroom floor well into 1972.
> 
> ...


Bob,
Ironic isn't it. Just think if you could have picked that up and happened to keep it for thirtysome years.  Cha Ching! Dave


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

The Sand Van is probably a body with limited appeal, as are most novelty pieces, so I can understand it becoming a shelf queen in the store. As others have pointed out the same thing happens with 1:1 cars, especially ones with outlandish styling. 

I really appreciate the wide variety of bodies that AutoWorld does, but they do occasionally produce a body like the SandVan that is going to be a tough sell beyond the few collectors who are looking for it. I see the upcoming Ice Cream Truck ending up in this category.

Opening up the customer base through Shopatron could be the savior of these fringe collectibles. That would have been a good suggestion, but it sounds like this guy is not exactly open to big picture thinking.


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

My uncle bought one of the last 71 Hemi Chargers after it'd sat on the dealers lot well into 72.
Coming home from a Christmas party his wife rolled the car,and the insurance company wrote the car off,to this day,he kicks his rear for not buying the car back from the insurance company,but in those days,the cars weren't worth anything.


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## sethndaddy (Dec 4, 2004)

after they leave the lot these days, they still aren't worth anything.


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## SplitPoster (May 16, 2006)

oooh, I may get into trouble saying this, but TK was right in the first place. It's like anything else, 1:1 too. Holding out for full retail on the last dirt brown 4 door with the plastic wheel covers and vinyl seats at the end of the model year does nothing to maintain the value of the hot sports model sitting down the row. everyone knows why it gets marked down more, or even dumped below cost. Sorry to disagree, guess I listened to some different people in the business setting. 

If you hold on to everything little thing that doesn't sell well and don't try to move it out, your shelves will be more and more dominated by stuff that doesn't sell well and sits there. Nice way to discourage return business, seeing the same stuff every time, don't you think? If you don't want them, and nobody else did either to this point, buying the SandVans at full retail would be charity. That's fine, but don't confuse it with good business when the other 11 cars in the series sell very well.


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## martybauer31 (Jan 27, 2004)

I agree with SplitPoster, and I don't think you owe him an apology at all. The beauty of the system is if someone doesn't sell what you want for the price you want, go buy it somewhere else. Buying his SandVans to get first dibs on the next lot was a pretty valiant effort on your part to rid him of some crap that's going to be in his inventory for quite a while, even if you didn't want it. I'd never buy the last small shirt on the rack just so that they will finally bring me out the XL that I actually want.

Sounds to me like he isn't interested enough to make a sale, go somewhere else. Not sure why everyone out there who sells on eBay or the rest of the 'net is a hack lining their pockets, but the great thing is we are all entitled to our own opinion.


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

Guys I understand your points but think about it...do you haggle like this at Wal-Mart? Do you tell a gas station owner how much you're gonna pay for gas? His store, to him, is _his_ Wal-Mart, it's _his_ gas pump, and I'm sure like anyone else he'd like to receive the same respect you give those businesses. And while it's true, you don't have to buy it, it doesn't mean there isn't someone that will, and a good business person will adjust accordingly at their own discretion.

On a side note, the other points (re: 1:1 cars, etc) are out of place, this is not a car dealership, and these "products" are barely a month old. No business person in their right mind would clearance price a product that fresh, if they had to they sure ain't gonna be buying more of it.

TK you don't need to apologize, I think you were making an honest effort, but the telling of it on here becomes a little one-sided. Wonder what would happen if a few actual shop owners, ie retail storefront business owners, became involved on this forum?


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## SplitPoster (May 16, 2006)

_Guys I understand your points but think about it...do you haggle like this at Wal-Mart_? Don't have to, they will mark down at point of sale to match any competitors price from any ad. Have done it numerous times.

WalMart here puts a yellow/red markdown or clearence tag on the leftovers , which these are, marks way down and gets rid of them. The bitter end doesn't stay on the shelf. Like lots of retail stores, some goods go to an outlet, and lots gets donated to charity for resale or distribution - I have a family member who works for the red cross, they have several stores who clean off their shelves and donate to them - including WalMart.

Don't like the comparison to 1:1 cars? OK, use candles, candy or cameras (just bought one closeout for 1/2 price, thank you).

The truth is that if people will buy 90% of the contents of an order in 2 weeks at full retail (this is the Christmas buying season, isn't it?) you could throw away the last 10%, reorder, and make more money than holding shelf space open waiting to sell 2 cars at full retail. Do the math.

And have a great Thanksgiving!


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

All true, SP, but it still remains that it's _their call_. That's my point. As for the "bitter end" stuff, again that's smart business, but in the marketplace R4 T-Jets are hardly "old" yet. I fully agree that older stuff should get marked down, but if people start doing it prematurely it devalues the whole product line, which is really where we're at now as a result of prior releases being sold within days for near or under dealer cost by speculators who could care less about the hobby.


Anyway, you have a good Thanksgiving too. :thumbsup:


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

All this gets back to the fact the hobby shop owner must order AW cars in mixed cases.

To use one of Gene's examples, it would be like going to a gas station and finding out all that was left was premium gas and you want regular. The owner then tells you that he can only order the three grades of gas in the same quantity and until he sells out of premium, he will not reorder. In the meantime, he has other business he does at the station to continue bring in income.

You could say "no thanks" and come back later to see if someone else bought the premium and therefore the gas station reordered. You could offer to buy the premium at a discount if you can be assured you will get regular on your next visit.

It all depends on how the store owner wants to run the business. Clearly, I can understand why a retailer would not get all excited about buying AW cars the way they are packaged. The retailer may be thinking that even if he lets you have the Sand Vans at cost, he may well get stuck with more on the next shipment and you won't be there to bail him out. It must be very frustrating when you have to order stock you know will not sell well in order to get the better stock.

If it were me, I would clear them out at cost, especially if I knew you were coming back to buy others at full MSRP. But then again, I would have to know that what I was going to get would interest you. And with random packaging (or even preset assortments), I don't know that.

Joe


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## A/FX Nut (May 28, 2004)

Here's a little tip to save a little money. If you use a credit card to pay for purchases the store has to pay a fee to the credit card company. 3% to 5%.

Ask the owner if he or she will give you that fee as a discount if you pay cash. If not slide them the credit card. I know someone who does this and he gets the dicount quite often, the store doesn't have to deal with the hassle of paying the Credit card company. Randy.


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## 1976Cordoba (Sep 20, 2000)

Why not just put the chassis in baggies and sell them for $10 and keep the bodies for runners on the rental cars?


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

1976Cordoba said:


> Why not just put the chassis in baggies and sell them for $10 and keep the bodies for runners on the rental cars?


'doba that is a very good idea, but in the context of this thread it seems that the chassis ain't worth $10? :freak: 

Other good ideas: 

Donate to racing clubs for prizes.

Use the complete cars for runners/rentals.

Give to a kid.

Take 'em apart and sell the pieces for spares (which is kinda funny, you'd probably be able to recover more than cost).

Any of these are more conducive to the hobby, and thus a business, than letting an individual customer dictate your business practices in _their own self-interest_.


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## sethndaddy (Dec 4, 2004)

If it was my shop, and I sold all the others and am left with just sand buggies, guess what, 
I'd order more. maybe the sand buggies will sell down the road, but if the others are selling for 15 bucks a piece your money's coming back.


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## coach61 (Sep 6, 2004)

A/FX Nut said:


> Here's a little tip to save a little money. If you use a credit card to pay for purchases the store has to pay a fee to the credit card company. 3% to 5%.
> 
> Ask the owner if he or she will give you that fee as a discount if you pay cash. If not slide them the credit card. I know someone who does this and he gets the dicount quite often, the store doesn't have to deal with the hassle of paying the Credit card company. Randy.



This works Randy, When I go into my local train shop for paints, plastic etc, I always stop at the ATM, get cash and pay him that way, he kicks me back some now and then, but I do it to support him. He is the only game in town here so.


Dave


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

sethndaddy said:


> If it was my shop, and I sold all the others and am left with just sand buggies, guess what,
> I'd order more. maybe the sand buggies will sell down the road, but if the others are selling for 15 bucks a piece your money's coming back.


That's a good point Ed, if any shop out there sold all but one or two R4's this soon after release, they are doing pretty darn good. So in reality, TK's shop doesn't have the incentive to take such an offer seriously, at least not yet.


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## twolff (May 11, 2007)

They'll be "on sale" eventually. Two local long time old school hobby shops had big sales in the past couple of years. One changed owners. The new owner filled a dumpster and marked down the remaining yellowing stock that was still recognizable. The other had a going out of busniess sale.

The two that remain both have closeout boxes that are something like 50% retail for the slow movers. They use shelf space for items that they can turn.


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## TK Solver (Mar 18, 2004)

Gene, you seem so focused on my low-ball initial offer that you've missed the point. I don't WANT the pair of Sand Vans for $18. I want the shop to order more cars so I can buy what I want from them. I feel that the guy is only hurting himself by not ordering more.

I didn't feel that I was dictating anyone's business practices. I was frustrated by his decision to wait to order more cars until he sold the Sand Vans and offered a suggestion that seemed to open his eyes. He won't sell me the two Sand Vans for $18 but I don't care. I just hope I got him thinking about restocking his shelves.

My offer was admittedly low but he understood my point. His prices for AWXT and AWTJ chassis are $10.50 and he's had 4 of each hanging on the rack for months. That's probably weighing on his thoughts as well.


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

TK I don't think you meant any harm in your offer. But, we can't assume that we know what's best for someone's business. He may not even care if they all go immediately. Sure he'd like it, but any business owner knows your not gonna hit 100% with everything. I was in a shop the other week, they were doing something many probably wouldn't believe happens...they were warehousing older releases to make room for new ones. This happens alot and the funny thing is its when the cars are out of sight for a while then re-appear that suddenly they move like the new ones.

In reality, these cars are sadly nothing more than a novelty anymore to the serious slot shop, and talking to plenty of shop owners, they unfortunately don't take this crowd too seriously anymore. Die-cast with motors about sums it up. It's a damn shame, too, myself and many others enjoy actually racing these cars _alot_. Tomy, ScaleAuto, Wizzard, Slottech....that stuff flies off the shelf at top dollar MSRP. What's the difference? You won't find any one of those products being hawked on the 'net for near or less than cost.


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## win43 (Aug 28, 2006)

I think offering to buy the Sand Vans at a lower price is OK. I don't like the part about "if I can have first dibs on the new stuff". I haggle over price quite often. Did it on my TV, surround sound system, and of course the price on a new car(I do understand that these are different situations). I would probably offer the hobbyshop a lower price for the Sand Vans, but I wouldn't make any stipulations. I would ask when the new stuff is coming in and I would try to be there first. I can always use cars I don't like for parts and then give the bodies away in trades and such.

Jerry


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## Crimnick (May 28, 2006)

On the other side of the coin...my local Hobby stop was running a speacial on track sets over a hundred dollars...

I asked the manager if he would give the discount as long as I bought two sets that totaled over a hundred...he didnt bat an eye....

So I saved 20 bucks on two Big D sets....and he tossed me a ten dollar gift card and a coupon for 20% off my next purchase over a hundred...

Not bad for stopping in on a whim... :thumbsup:


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## coach61 (Sep 6, 2004)

Crimnick said:


> On the other side of the coin...my local Hobby stop was running a speacial on track sets over a hundred dollars...
> 
> I asked the manager if he would give the discount as long as I bought two sets that totaled over a hundred...he didnt bat an eye....
> 
> ...



You better hope the wife doesn't see this post, a married man with a hundred dollars. Share the secret man!!! lol :thumbsup:


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## A/FX Nut (May 28, 2004)

I feel for the Mom and Pop hobby stores. I know the owner of the one in Goshen, Indiana said there was talk of the area shops forming a co-op and buying merchandise together so they could buy more and sell cheaper. I think it fell through. That was about 3 years ago.

Bob's in Watervliet, Michigan is a good place to buy from. And the only one around who has the AW / JL cars.

There is a new store on County Road 17 in Elkhart, Indiana. Hobby +. He said he could get them, I may talk to him and see what his price would be on them. Randy.


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