# Anyone planning a Seaview movie or 8' conversion?



## starseeker2 (Jun 13, 2008)

If anyone out there is planning to convert their Seaview to an 8 window version, or if the Moebius kit is a good representation of the 17' and you want to convert it to an 8', while digging through things that I haven't looked at in decades, I came across a plan with some sectional drawings of the original pre-manta Seaview nose. The nose didn't change significantly with the addition of the manta or between the 8' pre and post flying sub versions, so these sections would be perfect for anyone wanting to make the conversion. Sorry about the scan quality but this is about as good as I can do.


----------



## falcondesigns (Oct 30, 2002)

I know there is a 8 window conversion in the works,in fiberglass and I am doing the sail.2 Fat Guys(rpauly) is doing a two inch plug for the body extension.alexander


----------



## scotpens (Sep 6, 2003)

I've read about the preproduction design phase of the _Seaview_ when it had a 12-window nose and no manta fins, but I never knew exactly what it looked like. Interesting, and a bit more practical than the final version.


----------



## Captain Han Solo (Apr 5, 2002)

Yes.

Rick Tesky is making an 8 window conversion Bow for the Moebius kit.

BP


----------



## solex227 (Apr 23, 2008)

falcondesigns said:


> I know there is a 8 window conversion in the works,in fiberglass and I am doing the sail.2 Fat Guys(rpauly) is doing a two inch plug for the body extension.alexander


when does it look like the extension will be avalible and where will you be able to get it from??:thumbsup:


----------



## falcondesigns (Oct 30, 2002)

I cant speak for anyone else,But I'll let you know when the sail is available.alexander


----------



## Captain Han Solo (Apr 5, 2002)

Please Delete


----------



## solex227 (Apr 23, 2008)

As Usual It looks great! :thumbsup: I like the contour so far! wonder what the price will be for this conversion. 

falcon yes keep in touch with me on the sail and if you hear anything on the extension.

Solex


----------



## falcondesigns (Oct 30, 2002)

I'll let you know.alexander


----------



## AJ-1701 (May 10, 2008)

MMM... Can I fit another 39 inch model on my shelves.??? 

The plus side is doing the Control room as a display item and having the movie sub on the shelf as well. Now to plan the preliminary tactical assault on the mrs.


----------



## Captain Han Solo (Apr 5, 2002)

AJ-1701 said:


> MMM... Can I fit another 39 inch model on my shelves.???
> 
> The plus side is doing the Control room as a display item and having the movie sub on the shelf as well. Now to plan the preliminary tactical assault on the mrs.


----------



## woof359 (Apr 27, 2003)

who designed the Seaview? and where was the prop made?


----------



## scotpens (Sep 6, 2003)

woof359 said:


> who designed the Seaview? and where was the prop made?


The short answer is that the Seaview was primarily designed by three people: supervising art director Jack Martin Smith, staff artist Herman Bluementhal and, to a lesser extent, special-effects chief L.B. Abbott. All the filming miniatures were constructed by the art department at 20th Century Fox Studios.

For a bit more detail, go to:

http://www.vttbots.com/seaview.html


----------



## starseeker2 (Jun 13, 2008)

According to Scale Modeler, June 85, the Seaview was designed by Allen, Jack Martin Smith, and L B Abbot, among others, and Herb Cheek "contributed much as the head of the Fox miniature prop shop". My blueprint for the 4' notes H. Blumenthal as Art Director, who approved the drawings, and the print was drawn by "Rennison". It's initalled and dated by "JMS". 
The design was originally that of a Skipjack sub with a domed glass dome behind the conning tower. That was dropped and a 12 window nose and Cadillac fins were added (supposedly Allen loved his Caddy?). The 12 windows were considered too expensive for the full-size set so 4 were dropped. Then the manta fins and the fins at the sides of the exhaust tubes were added. 
Clay models were made and the design was tweaked. It seems that the Aurora model is a faithful replica of one of the early 2' designs. The clay models were sliced and diced and the patterns transferred to make models of plaster and wood in 4', 8' and 17' by Herb Cheek for Allen's and studio heads' approvals. Then the fibreglass miniatures were built.


----------



## scotpens (Sep 6, 2003)

The consensus is that Irwin Allen didn't really have any creative input regarding the design of the _Seaview_, though I'm sure he wasn't reluctant to take partial credit. Allen basically told the art directors and effects people that he wanted a futuristic-looking submarine, unlike any real sub in existence up to that time, with big windows and lots of fins. And that's what he got.


----------



## starseeker2 (Jun 13, 2008)

Ocr'd from Tim Colliver's wonderful book Seaview: The Making of VTTBS. 

Design and Construction of the USOS Seaview

With casting complete and the Fox art and construction
departments busy working on the sets for the movie, work began
on the miniatures. Alien wanted a submarine that was not only
practical in terms of being compatible with set construction but
also believable to the audience. The Seaview had to have a
futuristic design and a visually interesting appearance. The typical
teardrop shaped submarine that we're accustomed to today would
not do, nor would the look of conventional nuclear subs of 1960,
like \heNautilus or the Triton. Alien's Seaview would have to be
much more.

Four men at 20th Century Fox would play key roles in
designing this sub of the future and making it seem real on the big
screen; Jack Martin Smith, Herman Bluementhal, Lyie "Billy"
AbbottandHerbert Cheek. Smith had justrecently been promoted
to supervising art director at Fox and in that position was respon-
sible for overseeing the various movie and television projects the
studio was turning out at that time. He assigned one of his staff
artists, Bluementhal, to Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea, and
together with Fox's special effects chief, Abbott, and Fox's head
of the miniature prop shop. Cheek, set about the task of designing i
sets and miniatures for the film.
Numerous meetings were held between these men and Irwin
Alien to determine what could and could not be presented in a
plausible fashion. Artists began sketching out ideas for Alien's
submarine. The5eaview's original design resembled a contempo-
rary Skipjack class submarine with a glass domed observation/
control room located directly to the rear of the conning tower. That
idea was quickly dropped due to cost considerations in building
compatible sets. Another early Seaview design had the submarine
with twelve large windows in the bow, eight on two levels and
assorted searchlights aboveand below them. The bow would then
extend outward and taper back into the hull. To the rear, two large
tail fins protruded above a pair of exhaust tubes that contained
propellers. The sub had no keel or rudders at this point, but did
have missile silo hatches, a conning tower with triangular diving
planes, a sonar done on the top of the hull just in back of the nose,
and a hatch under what would be the missile room section for
launching of a mini sub.
This preliminary design met with Alien' s partial approval and
more detailed drawings and blueprints were ordered. While other
artists were working on the miniatures. Smith and Bluementhal
turned their attention to designing the full scale sets that would be
used in the live action scenes.
The Navy was the logical place to get research material on
submarines, so Bluementhal approached them. The Navy refused
his request Not surprising, considering the tension ofthecold war
at that time. From there Bluementhal turned to a Marine consulting
firm for answers.
"The Navy and the consulting company told us that nothing
we could come up with hadn't already been designed," recalled
Smith. Later he and some of the Fox staffers toured the Nautilus
which was stationed in San Diego. "What interested me from a
show business point of view," said Smith "was their 'grand
staircase' where two crewmen could walk abreast as they went to
different levels of the boat." That idea and others were later
incorporated into iheSeaview's sets. Navy surplus providedmuch
of the materials used to construct Seaview1 s Control Room. The
British publication Jane's Fighting Ships did prove useful in the
early design stages of the Seaview and was used extensively in
drawing up a data base. Eventually, the Navy did lend a hand.
The set was built on dollies so it could be wheeled about and
locked into other sections. Some of the control room panels were
cannibalized from other films. For example; 6\e Seaview's missile
tracking system computer was originally seen in the Spencer
Tracy/Katherine Hepbum movie Desk Set, then in The Invisible
Boy with Robbie the Robot and also The Fly with David Hedison
and Vincent Price. The remainder of the control room resembled
what would be found on any submarine and was built in such
exacting detail that when Navy observers paid a visit to the set,
they remarked about how well put together everything was. No
one could figure out what anything was supposed to do, but it
looked great just the same.
The set passed muster for the Fox people and the Navy but it
wasn't flashy enough for Alien. He went from panel to panel,
ordering more instrumentation and flashing lights to enhance the
visual effects of his control room. To get away from the traditional
periscope in the control room's center, a color TV monitor was
added to receive images from the nose and conning tower cameras.
The periscope eventually stayed but the addition of the remote TV
monitor further added the visual impact he wanted and gave the
audience yet another clue that this was no ordinary submarine they were aboard.
For the Seaview's observation nose, a large room was de-
signed with perforated arches that simulated a great steel structure
with large windows. The live action set was built from the
perspective of the lower level only. Actually there was no glass in
the windows, instead positioned just outside were translucent
3 screens that showed an image shot out from large projectors some
75 to 100 feet away. "Windshield with process out the front" as
Smith put it Synchronized projectors would shoot a cinemagra-
phic image of the sub riding foaming waves on the surface, bubbles
and spray washing by the windows during a dive, or a large
creature peering into the sub. It was an effective and realistic dem-
onstration of the technique known as rear projection.
Other sets included the Admiral's cabin which could be
redressed as the captain's, the undersea aquarium where Peter
Lorre "walked" his rubbersharkBessie.theOfficers and Crewman
Mess, and the Missile and Escape Room where the Seaview's
armaments of torpedos and missiles were stored and where divers
could enter and leave through an airlock hatch or the nearby Mini-
Sub.
Filming a motion picture along the lines of Voyage to the
Bottom of the Sea can be difficult when you consider the space
requirements of a submarine. "When you're trying to build sets that look like the inside of a submarine it's like you're inside a telephone booth," said Smith as he talked about how they built the
live action sets of the Seaview, "You have to peel away one wall
(called a "wild wall") to make more room for the camera and lights
and the seventy five or so people who are standing around. And
when a wall is taken out to shoot the port or starboard side,
hundreds of wires are left dangling around so we devised a way
where we could take apart the submarine in twelve to fifteen foot
sections from the floor to the ceiling." Construction of the sets for
filming were perhaps the biggest problems to face the production
crew of Voyage.
According to Smith, he learned many alesson about building
sets for submarine films by touring an exhibit at the Museum of
Science and Industry in Chicago. There, a full scale German U-
Boat is on display. This is no mock up or replica either, it is an
authentic German submarine that was captured in the closing days
of World War Two. Both bow and stem sections have been
removed so visitors can walk through the entire length of the ship.
The exhibit impressed Smith. How ingenious the designers were
placing equipment in such cramped surroundings.

He and Bluementhal worked practically hand in hand with
Abbott and Alien in both set and miniature design during the
planning and construction phases of Voyage. While carpenters
were building the full scale sets on the Fox sound stages, Heib
Cheek's miniatures department was busy sculpting from clay Ac
final design of the Seaview and her Mini-Sub from the drawings
approved by Alien. These clay renderings led to sculptures in
plaster and wood, with final castings in fiberglass. Working with
artists' sketches and storyboards laid out for production. Alien's
submarine of the future was starting to take shape. The futuristic
design of the Seaview itself was derived mainly from numerous
meetings between Alien and Fox's art and special effects depart-
ments. Some of their ideas would come from the script, others from
present day (1960) submarines, and some from sources that had
nothing to do with subs.

The bow structure of the Seaview was streamlined with a
rounded and curved leading edge. The six pair/12 window con-
struction design was deemed too difficult for set construction, so
the Seaview's nose now had 8 windows, four each on two levels,
and instead of numerous searchlights mounted on the bow, one
large searchlightnow occupied the center of the nose just below the
center of the lower four windows. On either side of the bow, huge
fins were added that flared out and then tapered back into the hull
forming a sort of running board that would run the length of the sub
above the keel all the way back to the large cylindrical shaped
engine housings on either side of the stem. This running board
would end in a delta wing on the engines. The Seaview's bow fins
were influenced by the shape of the Manta Ray and Smith and
Bluementhal designed them to add the impression of great bal-
ances to steady the ship.

Moving back roughly one third the length of the Seaview, a
more streamlined conning tower with semicircular diving planes
occupied the dorsal hull above the ballast tank vents. Behind the
conning tower is the missile silo hatches and the missile room
escape hatch. But the most interesting, and unusual, aspect of the
Seaview was her business end astern.
"Nothing like the Seaview had ever been built and nothing
like it has been since." That quote from Jack Smith to this day sdll
holds water and if the Seaview wasn't a strange looking fish
already, moving farther aft an even stranger sight greeted the
onlooker. Instead of the typical crucifix arrangement that is
commonplace on both submarines and aircraft (vertical rudder and
horizontal elevators) Smith and his team built a dihedral design
that resembled the split tail of the Beechcraft Bonanza airplane. It
was that unusual styling that raised a few eyebrows and caused a
few chuckles at Fox.
"We had these long fins coming out of the back of the sub,"
Smith said, "And then we added lights on the tips of those fins so
itstartedtolooklikethebackofaCadillac."Rememberthoselong
fins that dominated the cars of the late fifties and early sixties?
Those fins served no useful purpose, gas mileage was not im-
proved and they didn't make the car go any faster. They were
stylish and a product of their era and they sold cars. As for the

Seaview, Alien approved. His submarine not only had the futuris-
tic design he wanted but the Seaview's tail looked an awful lot like
his 1959 Cadillac.

Three different Seaview's were used in the production. A
small four foot version was employed in the sequence involving
the attack of the giant octopus. The next size up was an eight foot
propthatfeaturedintemal lights and small ports for bubble effects.
This was the size used for the underwater footage of diving and
cruising. The largest of the miniatures was eighteen feet in length
and was used only in surface shots.

While Smith's art department was responsible for the df s'gn
of the miniatures and the live action sets, the actual building was
done by personnel at Fox's millworks. A great deal of the films
success and credibility lies in the skill of Fox's construction
department, which at the time was headed up by Ivan Martin.

With work progressing smoothly on Voyage, Fox executives
told Smith to pack his bags and go to Rome to see what was going
on with the trouble-plagued movie Cleopatra. While Bluementhal
and his crew labored with Alien's movie. Smith headed for what
he thought would be just a two week jaunt to Egypt Smith and his
people wrestled with sets designed to carry the movie-goers back
to the time of the Pharaohs while half a world away his cohorts
were building sets and miniatures of a futurist atomic submarine.
"I couldn't have been further away from the Seaview than I was
then," he remembered. His two weeks in Rome ended up lasting
ten and a half months.


----------



## Captain Han Solo (Apr 5, 2002)

scotpens said:


> The consensus is that Irwin Allen didn't really have any creative input regarding the design of the _Seaview_, though I'm sure he wasn't reluctant to take partial credit. Allen basically told the art directors and effects people that he wanted a futuristic-looking submarine, unlike any real sub in existence up to that time, with big windows and lots of fins. And that's what he got.


 
It was actually Irwin's Idea to add the Manta Fins to either side of the Hull.


BP


----------



## scotpens (Sep 6, 2003)

starseeker2 said:


> Ocr'd from Tim Colliver's wonderful book Seaview: The Making of VTTBS.
> 
> . . . Some of the control room panels were cannibalized from other films. For example; Seaview's missile tracking system computer was originally seen in the Spencer Tracy/Katherine Hepbum movie Desk Set, then in The Invisible Boy with Robbie the Robot and also The Fly with David Hedison and Vincent Price.


That computer panel also made a brief appearance in the Shirley MacLaine vehicle _What A Way To Go_, but if you blink, you miss it. It shows up early in the film in Dick Van ****'s office.

BTW, I assume you didn't have the time to proofread your OCR-scanned copy before posting. Katherine _*Hepbum*_? :lol: And Irwin Allen's last name is spelled throughout as "Alien"!


----------



## X15-A2 (Jan 21, 2004)

"Irwin Alien", that explains a lot!

Mr Allen was not shy about taking credit for lots of other peoples work if it suited him. But, "that's Hollywood"!


----------



## Seaview (Feb 18, 2004)

X15-A2 said:


> "Irwin Alien", that explains a lot!
> 
> Mr Allen was not shy about taking credit for lots of other peoples work if it suited him. But, "that's Hollywood"!


 
More than just Hollyweird; that's S.O.P. in the business world in general. I remember in school it was referred to as "putting your name on other people's homework".


----------



## scotpens (Sep 6, 2003)

Except that in the business and entertainment fields, you can generally get away with it!


----------



## WarpeD (May 28, 2007)

Sorry to resurrect this somewhat dusty and off topic thread....but has there been any hint as to the progress of the fiberglass movie version conversion?


----------



## falcon49xxxx (Aug 4, 2008)

I've been waiting for the 2Fat Guys plug set,so I can finish my sail conversion.I dont know whats happening with the front end that someone was working on.


----------



## solex227 (Apr 23, 2008)

Yeah I asked about this 2 fat guys extension but seems no one can tell me anything about it or when it should be for sale? hummm.


----------



## WarpeD (May 28, 2007)

Jimi says that something went wrong on their first attempt.

Frankly, that plug is easy enough to scratch build with styrene and putty. Not on my radar.

I'm wondering more where that movie nose conversion went. Not saying it should be done already, but it would be nice to know it was still coming. 

Edit: On further digging, I found the thread I remembered. Rick Teskey is the fellow that said he was working on one. Time for a PM, I guess!


----------



## falcon49xxxx (Aug 4, 2008)

I got an answer to my post from 2Fat Guys,he said they are remolding the piece right now.Guess its time to work on the sail again.


----------



## Seaview (Feb 18, 2004)

This reminds me of the anticipation we all felt while waiting for the Moebius Seaview itself to arrive. I bought a second one for exactly this 8-window conversion, and will be very content to patiently wait until next summer if need be, because I love the movie version just as much as the Flying Sub version.


----------



## WarpeD (May 28, 2007)

Update: Rick sez it's still on! 

Edit....well, I guess we're still in for a wait....


----------



## WarpeD (May 28, 2007)

Where's Rick?


----------



## Seaview (Feb 18, 2004)

At his Cafe' Americain casino? It'll be well worth the longer wait.


----------



## starseeker2 (Jun 13, 2008)

Despite all my good intentions, I can't help myself and still occasionally check this site. Quick arithmetic: the 1/96 scale 8 window "4'" Seaview miniature was approx 51.5" long. The 1/48 8' was about 8.5' long. The 1/24 4 window is about 17 1/8' long. Moebius had measurements from the 17" to base their model on. While the curves of the kit have some problems, all straight line or caliper type measurements are absolutely spot on. For the outer diameter of the Moebius hull, in 1/128 scale, compared to any of the miniatures, the Moebius kit should be 38.6" long. It's a bit tough to measure, but it seems to be within about 1/10" of that mark. I don't know where the idea that the kit needs another 1 1/2" in length comes from. Perhaps from looking at photos of the miniatures. Beware of photos! Cameras distort. There's a quick way of checking to see if the photo of the Seaview you're using is distorted: remember how the bottom tail fins seemed to angle downwards? That was because they flare out toward the back and the camera angle and lens distortion made that flare seem look a downward slant. The same thing is true with the top back fins. The back edges of the top Caddy fins are virtually (if not exactly) vertical. You can tell if the picture of the Seaview you're looking at is distorted (elongated) lengthwise by the camera lens by how much the Caddy fins seem to sweep backwards. The more the angle, the more the camera is stretching and distorting that end of the miniature.
Also note that the sail varied in position between the 3 sizes of miniatures so that can't be used as a reference point. 
What's interesting about the dimensions of the 4' 8 window and the 17' 4 window (all from ************* who measured them in person) is that they scale perfectly with one another. Changing the Seaview from 8 to 4 windows affected that shapes of a lot of things but seems not to have affected the overall length of the miniatures.


----------



## starseeker2 (Jun 13, 2008)

Also note that the front portion of the deck was changed between the 8 window and the FS versions. On the 4 window, the deck extends much less fwd of the limber holes and curves down toward the hull more sharply, possibly giving the illusion that the nose is longer on the 4 window sub. The nose is somewhat sleeker in shape on the 17' FS than on the 8' FS, however. But as far as the #s, go, all of the versions of the subs seem to have been the same Moebius number of scale feet long.


----------



## WarpeD (May 28, 2007)

Which would seem to imply that if one lengthens one's foredeck, one gets an eight window bow profile. Need to look at some pictures more closely. If correct, though, it would make creating an eight window bow a helluva lot easier. Might not be perfect, but closer than I think many of us have thought. Nice catch on the lengths, BTW.


----------



## megabot11 (Aug 3, 2008)

Ok Rick You can Kill me later.


----------



## WarpeD (May 28, 2007)

Nice! Care to share the process? Based on Starseeker2 mentioned, now your foredeck wants to be a bit longer. Optimism where the once wasn't!!


----------



## Seaview (Feb 18, 2004)

I don't know about YOU guys, but I'm personally just as anxious to get the movie conversion every bit as much as I'm looking forwards to the Flying Sub (and the Mummy and the Karloff Frankenstein's Monster). :woohoo:


----------



## junglelord (Mar 6, 2007)

I got two Seaviews coming and am I looking at the options with much interest. 
:thumbsup:


----------



## oshkosh619 (Feb 24, 2009)

Greetings! I recently stumbled across this site and had to join. I'm amazed at the talent of the modelers on this site!

A quick question....

I have been patiently awaiting a large scale movie version Seaview kit for 40 years now. I rushed to buy the Moebius kit even though it was the 4-window version simply because it looked specatcular. Now I hear of Mr. Teskey's upcoming conversion kit. I do NOT want to miss out on being able to finally have a three foot replica of what I consider to be the sleekest version of the Seaview; her original 8-window incarnation. Is there a mailing list potential customers can subscribe to, or is it best just to keep checking these boards?

Many thanks in advance!

Mike


----------



## Seaview (Feb 18, 2004)

I think it's best to just keep checking these boards. BTW, welcome to HobbyTalk, Mike!


----------



## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

Also bear in mind that Moebius will soon be making an announcement re: pending kit releases. I'm not saying a movie Seaview kit or movie Seaview conversion kit will be among those offered, but, hey, ya never know.


----------



## oshkosh619 (Feb 24, 2009)

Seaview said:


> I think it's best to just keep checking these boards. BTW, welcome to HobbyTalk, Mike!


Thank you sir! I'll keep my sonar tuned on the boards! And many thanks to Moebius for producing quintessential kits of what we "60's children" loved to watch on the boob tube, and others producing after-market parts to convert to our favorite season version and lite 'em up better than the studio models!

Mike


----------



## GordonMitchell (Feb 12, 2009)

Hi Guys,watching and waiting with anticipation,joined when I saw the thread about LIS figures and things are getting better by the threads,hoping to have my FS delivered today,it left the US last week....cant wait after seeing and reading the comments,its nice to get the youthfull enthusiasm again(without the wife.....lol)I'll keep watching the boards,Gordon,Glasgow-Scotland


----------



## Seaview (Feb 18, 2004)

megabot11 said:


> Ok Rick You can Kill me later.


 
Anybody heard from Rick Teskey lately regarding the 8 window "movie Seaview" conversion kit? I'm really looking forward to it. :hat:


----------



## MJB (Aug 3, 2001)

Just a bump. What's the latest or can someone give me Rick Teskey's email so I can ask him directly and post the reply here in the room.


----------



## megabot11 (Aug 3, 2008)

Seaview said:


> Anybody heard from Rick Teskey lately regarding the 8 window "movie Seaview" conversion kit? I'm really looking forward to it. :hat:


I haven't heard from Rick since about Feb I'll give him a shout see how things are coming. He's done a fabulous 51" version of the 8 window.

http://www.subpirates.com/showthread.php?t=2807


----------



## MJB (Aug 3, 2001)

Thanks, Megabot, can't wait for the answer to some of our prayers.


----------



## Captain Han Solo (Apr 5, 2002)

Carson Dyle said:


> Also bear in mind that Moebius will soon be making an announcement re: pending kit releases. I'm not saying a movie Seaview kit or movie Seaview conversion kit will be among those offered, but, hey, ya never know.


 
:thumbsup::thumbsup:


----------



## m jamieson (Dec 18, 2008)

Did anyone ever find out about when an eight window modified nose would be available..or has that project been scrapped?


----------



## Seaview (Feb 18, 2004)

I guess not.


----------



## Captain Han Solo (Apr 5, 2002)

Hmmnnnnnn....

I wouldn't be suprised if a certain Model company....eventually makes this Happen


----------



## Seaview (Feb 18, 2004)

Yup...pleasantly surprised, I might add. :hat:


----------

