# Did I Get Ripped Off??



## Docsab (May 6, 2009)

I was looking to buy a Mantis Tiller in February. I saw an ad on Craigslist for a "reconditioned" tiller for $150. Seeing that the going price for a new one was over $300, I gave the seller a call. He seemed honest enough and I went to see the machine. It looked brand new. The seller said he buys old or damaged tillers and replaces/rebuilds the engines and sells at a profit. He asked me if I wanted to see it run and I said yes. He started it and ran it at WOT. I asked to hear it at idle and he let off the throttle and it seemed to run smoothly. I bought it.

It sat in my shed for 2 months. I took it out last month and could not get it started. I changed the fuel, cleaned the carb, cleaned the filters, changed the plug(had a spark)even tried a quick shot of starter fluid and could not even get it to cough. I was frustrated and took it to the Mantis Factory(which is only 20 minutes from me). They looked at it and said the engine only had 80lb compression and was worthless, but they can replace the engine for me for $125.

Anyway, what confuses me is how the seller was able to run the engine with no/little compression? Is that possible? If not, how could it lose compression just by sitting in my shed? Mantis has nothing to gain by telling me the engine is shot as thier repair price is $125 no matter what the repair is- so the less they have to do the more profitable they are. Something here does not make sense- any ideas?


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## pyro_maniac69 (Aug 12, 2007)

he either put oil in the cylinder to help it start, or the gas he had mixed was very rich to make up for the compression

and yes, you got boned, sorry to hear that, worse thing you can do is buy a 2-stroke motor without doing a compression test yourself


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## Docsab (May 6, 2009)

Well, not all is lost- I'll get a working Mantis with a guarantee for a total of$275- less than I would have paid for a new one.

I don't understand how some people can look you right in the eye as they rip you off- and still can sleep at night- I'll never understand that.

Live and learn. Good lesson this time. Thanks for the info!


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## 30yearTech (Sep 14, 2006)

It is possible that the piston ring may just have been stuck, and this can happen from just sitting up. Without taking a look into the cylinder and piston you will never know. Sometimes a little sea foam is all it takes to clear up a sticking ring.

Did the tech at the Mantis factory remove the muffler and inspect the piston and cylinder for any damage? or did they simply run a compression test and declare the engine shot!


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## Docsab (May 6, 2009)

That is a good question 30yT, unfortunately I am getting my info from my wife who took their call while I was at work, and she said the tech stated the engine was "irrepairable". I would believe the factory shop might be a little more thorough in their evaluation than just running the compression test, especially in view of the fact that they would be less profitable in replacing the engine vs cleaning a stuck ring(as I mentioned the repair fee is preset regardless of the work). However, I will be sure to ask them specifically when I pick up the tiller in a few days. To be honest, I wish I had spent more time working on it myself- I am not very knowledgable about 2 cycle engines but I could have learned more reading this forum and tried to troubleshoot it better but I panicked cause I needed to get my garden tilled and planted and didn't have the time to mess with it. It still surprises me that the tiller could have been started and ran smoothly at idle with little compression because of oil in the cylinder or a rich mix!


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## geogrubb (Jul 28, 2006)

When you pick up the tiller ask if you can have the old engine to use for for practice to learn to fix 2-cycle engines or whatever, if they say yes, you can find out the original problem, if not you know they didn't bother to check the motor and just offered the new engine, I have been told on several ocassions that Mantis is very good at taking care of their customers and would probably have given you a new tiller if you had been the original owner. Have a good one. Geo


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## Docsab (May 6, 2009)

Thanks Geo- good idea. In working with them, I got the feeling that if the problem was minor- they would have fixed it no charge whether it was under warranty or not. I also believe I am paying for this repair solely because I am not the original owner and was not in their database. I noticed that before anyone there answered any of my questions about pricing and repairs, they always checked that database first for my name!


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## walker1 (Apr 27, 2009)

Docsab said:


> Well, not all is lost- I'll get a working Mantis with a guarantee for a total of$275- less than I would have paid for a new one.
> 
> I don't understand how some people can look you right in the eye as they rip you off- and still can sleep at night- I'll never understand that.
> 
> Live and learn. Good lesson this time. Thanks for the info!


My exact thoughts! Every time I hear anything about craig's list it's BAD. I wouldn't go to that site. I also won't buy from Ebay unless the item is NEW. Then I pay the person through Paypal. I have not gotten burned yet. Just lucky so far.

The US wouldn't be in a severe recession if it weren't for WEALTHY/GREEDY humans. They have screwed me up big time! No raise this year and the matching 401K got cut in 1/2. You and I share the same thoughts about how these low lifes live with themselves. Hope things work out for you.


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## pyro_maniac69 (Aug 12, 2007)

Docsab said:


> Thanks Geo- good idea. In working with them, I got the feeling that if the problem was minor- they would have fixed it no charge whether it was under warranty or not. I also believe I am paying for this repair solely because I am not the original owner and was not in their database. I noticed that before anyone there answered any of my questions about pricing and repairs, they always checked that database first for my name!


no offense, but you are giving them a little TOO much credit IMO, there are a lot of shops out there that will do a compression check, see that it isn't up to par, and call the customer and tell them its junk


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## 30yearTech (Sep 14, 2006)

walker1 said:


> My exact thoughts! Every time I hear anything about craig's list it's BAD. I wouldn't go to that site. I also won't buy from Ebay unless the item is NEW. Then I pay the person through Paypal. I have not gotten burned yet. Just lucky so far.
> 
> The US wouldn't be in a severe recession if it weren't for WEALTHY/GREEDY humans. They have screwed me up big time! No raise this year and the matching 401K got cut in 1/2. You and I share the same thoughts about how these low lifes live with themselves. Hope things work out for you.


Know what, I disagree. Not everyone that advertises on craigslist is a thief! I advertise there and I am damn good at what I do, and my customers are happy with my work. I could give you hundreds of references from satisfied craigslist customers. Generally if the customer is satisfied, you never hear about it, but if they are dissatisfied, you will definitely hear about it. 

I have heard horror stories from craigslist customers as well, but you need to do your due diligence anytime you purchase something used. 
How do you know the guy that sold this was trying to rip anyone off? 
He may just not be a very good repair person and thought he had the engine fixed, that does not make him a thief. 

Did the original poster contact him with regards to the non starting issue? Perhaps he might have tried to help out the purchaser with additional repairs. Sometimes we are too quick to judge!


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## Docsab (May 6, 2009)

30yearTech said:


> Know what, I disagree. Not everyone that advertises on craigslist is a thief! I advertise there and I am damn good at what I do, and my customers are happy with my work. I could give you hundreds of references from satisfied craigslist customers. Generally if the customer is satisfied, you never hear about it, but if they are dissatisfied, you will definitely hear about it.
> 
> I have heard horror stories from craigslist customers as well, but you need to do your due diligence anytime you purchase something used.
> How do you know the guy that sold this was trying to rip anyone off?
> ...



The first thing I tried to do was contact him. Unfortunately, no response to my emails and I threw away his phone# after the sale. I find it rather hard to believe he thought he had it fixed if he had to squirt oil in the cylinder or run a rich mix just to start it.

With that being said, I think the great majority of people on Ebay are honest and most of the people on Craigslist are. I have had 100 transactions on Ebay, and with the exception of 3 people, the remainder were mostly very honest and trustworthy. I have bought several things off Craigslist-and sold some lawnmowers, edgers, etc and have always had good results. You have to know what you are buying and check it out before the sale-that keeps everyone honest-if I was more knowledgeable about 2 cycle engines I would have done the compression test before buying and found the problem- So I blame myself as much as the guy who sold it to me. I believe human nature to be basically good but as 30yT mentioned, the small dishonest minority is who you always hear about.


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## 30yearTech (Sep 14, 2006)

Docsab said:


> The first thing I tried to do was contact him. Unfortunately, no response to my emails and I threw away his phone# after the sale. I find it rather hard to believe he thought he had it fixed if he had to squirt oil in the cylinder or run a rich mix just to start it.


Well if you tried to contact the seller and he would not return your call, then I would be suspicious. 

Do you know that he had to squirt oil in it or run a rich mixture to get it to run? This is something that was suggested by another poster, but is not necessarily the case with your engine only a possibility. 

I am not saying that you were not ripped off, but I have come across quite a few pieces of equipment over the years that were condemned by mechanics, that were in fact still alright.


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## walker1 (Apr 27, 2009)

30yearTech said:


> Know what, I disagree. Not everyone that advertises on craigslist is a thief! I advertise there and I am damn good at what I do, and my customers are happy with my work. I could give you hundreds of references from satisfied craigslist customers. Generally if the customer is satisfied, you never hear about it, but if they are dissatisfied, you will definitely hear about it.
> 
> I have heard horror stories from craigslist customers as well, but you need to do your due diligence anytime you purchase something used.
> How do you know the guy that sold this was trying to rip anyone off?
> ...


Who's judging anyone? I'm saying I will never go to craig's list, period. I don't trust anyone when it comes to money. I moved to FL 20 yrs. ago and have never seen such a bunch of crooks. You want an example??

I have a Harley. I asked the dlr. for a price on a 10K maint. service. Two years ago the labor was $220. This time they tried to fleece me for an extra hour @ $85, which would be a $300 labor charge for 2.8 hrs., BUT they tried to tell me there's an extra hr. for the 10K service. I said to them WHAT FOR. They couldn't even tell me what it was for. Thieves!

Fortunately, I got hooked up with a guy who charges $60/hr. and came recommended from a guy my wife works with. I did the fluids & filter part and the mechanic did the rest.

His bill was $90 labor and a $15 high beam bulb. Total outlay: $105. Harley would have screwed me for $300 PLUS their BS charge of "shop supplies." Do YOU charge people for shop supplies?

Just because you've been in bus. for 30 yrs. doesn't give you the right to get nasty with me. I once owned a service bus. for 20 yrs. and I never srewed anyone. I worked with them on price and I always gave excellent customer service. 

Hey, most people @ this time ARE thieves. One more thought- The Harley mechanic was fair and honest so guess who will never see me again- The Harley dlr. And I found out that they never lubed my clutch & throttle cables since the bike came out of the crate. IE: They took my hard earned $$ and didn't even perform the wotk they got paid big bucks for!

So, if you're honest that's good. But, I will never shop craig's list. I learned to be this way by getting the shaft too many times. An honest mechanic or dlr. is rare these days. You are in the minority.


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## Docsab (May 6, 2009)

I think its pretty safe to say all dealers- whether its a car or bike- are WAY overpriced on their service. I would only take my car to the dealer if its warranty or recall repair. You find a good mechanic at a smaller shop and stick with him. The only way you can avoid getting ripped off is to develop a relationship with him over time.


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## 30yearTech (Sep 14, 2006)

walker1 said:


> Who's judging anyone? I'm saying I will never go to craig's list, period. I don't trust anyone when it comes to money.


That's a judgement!!!



walker1 said:


> I have a Harley. I asked the dlr. for a price on a 10K maint. service. Two years ago the labor was $220. This time they tried to fleece me for an extra hour @ $85, which would be a $300 labor charge for 2.8 hrs., BUT they tried to tell me there's an extra hr. for the 10K service. I said to them WHAT FOR. They couldn't even tell me what it was for. Thieves!


Ever heard of overhead??



walker1 said:


> Fortunately, I got hooked up with a guy who charges $60/hr. and came recommended from a guy my wife works with. I did the fluids & filter part and the mechanic did the rest.
> 
> His bill was $90 labor and a $15 high beam bulb. Total outlay: $105. Harley would have screwed me for $300 PLUS their BS charge of "shop supplies." Do YOU charge people for shop supplies?


Again; overhead, and yes I charge for shop supplies, they cost me money and I charge for them. It cost's to have oil disposed of, lubricants, cleaning supplies, shop towels, they are not free. You either pay for them or the price is factored into the labor, either way your paying for it.



walker1 said:


> Just because you've been in bus. for 30 yrs. doesn't give you the right to get nasty with me.


I did not get nasty with you, I disagreed!



walker1 said:


> Hey, most people @ this time ARE thieves.


Ahh.. Judgement...



walker1 said:


> I found out that they never lubed my clutch & throttle cables since the bike came out of the crate. IE: They took my hard earned $$ and didn't even perform the wotk they got paid big bucks for!


I have to agee... THIEVES!!



walker1 said:


> An honest mechanic or dlr. is rare these days. You are in the minority


Not being nasty, but again I disagree...

Now all that being said... Maybe this post was a little nasty...


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## walker1 (Apr 27, 2009)

Docsab said:


> I think its pretty safe to say all dealers- whether its a car or bike- are WAY overpriced on their service. I would only take my car to the dealer if its warranty or recall repair. You find a good mechanic at a smaller shop and stick with him. The only way you can avoid getting ripped off is to develop a relationship with him over time.


You're so right. The Harley mechanic came highly recommened by a guy who's known him for 25 years. The trouble with the Harley dlr. is they've lost many customers because of their greed. I bought that bike new ther 4 1/2 yrs. ago. At that time a maint. service was $140 for labor- (I supplied the oil & oil filter- (bought there). Two yrs. ago the same service was $220 labor and they did a horrible job! I got home and discovered my oil level was down 1 1/2 qts. I gave them plenty of oil, but 2 qts. ended up in my bike bag. When I called asking why the answe was "We can't get all the oil out you know." That idiot service mgr. is long gone.

Actually, at this time they have no service mgr. or service writers as they all quit or got fired. The showroom is empty and they're trying to make up for their incompetance by fleecing the few return customers they still get.

Any co. that is raising rates during this raging recession is crazy. There's no inflation, fuel is down 50%, and you'd think they'd be begging for business.

Like I said before: This whole recession/financial meltdown is due to GREEDY/WEALTHY people who not only screwed our economy up, but screwed me & my family also. It seems like ther is no justice for the hard working middle class folks like me. And those same people will make out like the bandits they are now and later. Whatever happened to honesty and integrity? Why would any wealthy person need to steal more money from the masses? I have never been able to figure out why people are never satisfied when they have it made for life. I must be out of touch with the times.


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## walker1 (Apr 27, 2009)

30yearTech said:


> That's a judgement!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You sure said a mouthfull. 

1) Until the 90's there was no such thing as a shop supply charge. It was part of doing business.

2) I owned a bus. for 20 successful years-(Unlike GM or our govt.) Of course I know about overhead- I also have a Bachelor's degree in Management and Finance. So you raise your rate a LITTLE to cover additional costs.

3) Some cos. think they're slick by raising their price AND giving the customer a lesser portion- (I'm talking about restaurants). People notice things like that and in my case I don't go back there again. My wife totally agrees with that as well.

4) I'm not judging anyone. I just call 'em as I see 'em. 

5) You seem like an OK guy and everyone is entitled to his/her opinion. I respect that as long as I'm not attacked for disagreeing with them. My thing is I'm OK with your opinion, but I can still be 100% against it.

I don't have a problem with you. I respect anyone who's been in bus. for 30 yrs. and is good @ what they do. I take issue with the greedy people and cos.

Unfortunaely, I have had bad luck overall with people here in FL. The Harley mechanic is the 1st person I've met in a very long time that is most defineately 100% honest. I brought cash when I picked up the bike and he was nice enough to not charge me for the tax even though I offered it.

Besides, what do I know? I'm not making $174,000 for working up to 99 days a year for doing nothing like our elected officials. I'm just a 59 yr. old man who played by the rules throughout life. Maybe that's why I hate people like them. They stole 1/2 of our 401K. They're putting all of us- (Except for themselves) into a mountain of debt we'll never pay off. Yeah, maybe I should have been a career politician, but one problem- I wouldn't be sleeping well at night if I was that dishonest.


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## JEJ (Apr 24, 2009)

When I worked as a auto mech a truck came around and payed us for our used oil !!!!


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## ossaguy (Dec 3, 2008)

JEJ said:


> When I worked as a auto mech a truck came around and payed us for our used oil !!!!


Here out west,it costs a lot to have the waste oil picked up,and it can't have any gas mixed in,since they test it before they pick it up.The old gas has to be in a separate drum with a special catch base,and it's picked up at a rate higher than the oil even.Add to that the permits required every year for those containers,and it's easy to see why shops have to charge for hazardous waste on repair orders.It really adds up in cost.

Steve


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## walker1 (Apr 27, 2009)

Here we go again, I attempted to start my chainsaw today and it would not start. The primer bulb was pulling gasoline into it, but the carburetor was empty from disassembly. I primed it four times after seeing gas in the primer bulb and it made no attempt to start.

Then something else happened. The primer bulb got stuck in the pushed in position with gas in it. The only way I could get it back to normal was to take the cover off and finesse it gently and it popped back. I push it again and the same thing happened. Then, I unscrewed the bulb assembly and there was gasoline in both lines.

I put a new spark plug in the chainsaw along with a new air cleaner element. All the new fuel lines seem to be fine so I am at a loss as to why this machine doesn't want to start. This was the original problem when the bulb broke before.

At this point in time all feedback is appreciated greatly as I have no idea why the bulb is sticking and the chainsaw won't start. Thanks all.


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## 30yearTech (Sep 14, 2006)

walker1 said:


> Here we go again, I attempted to start my chainsaw today and it would not start. The primer bulb was pulling gasoline into it, but the carburetor was empty from disassembly. I primed it four times after seeing gas in the primer bulb and it made no attempt to start.
> 
> Then something else happened. The primer bulb got stuck in the pushed in position with gas in it. The only way I could get it back to normal was to take the cover off and finesse it gently and it popped back. I push it again and the same thing happened. Then, I unscrewed the bulb assembly and there was gasoline in both lines.
> 
> ...


When this happens it is usually due to a restriction in the supply. This could be from a kink in the fuel hose from the tank to the carburetor, a dirty fuel filter, or a plugged filter screen in the carburetor.


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## walker1 (Apr 27, 2009)

30yearTech said:


> When this happens it is usually due to a restriction in the supply. This could be from a kink in the fuel hose from the tank to the carburetor, a dirty fuel filter, or a plugged filter screen in the carburetor.


Let's see- I pd. close attn. to making sure the fuel lines weren't kinked when re-assembling the carb & air cleaner. I took the fuel filter off and blew through it. It seemed to be unclogged. I had the carb off, sprayed it good with carb cleaner, but I didn't see any screen. Where exactly is the filter screen located in the carb? 

I will take the carb apart if necessary. Let me know where to look.:thumbsup:


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## Docsab (May 6, 2009)

Walker1- Too bad you're not closer to Philly- I'm giving away my chainsaw(see swap and sell). I think all it needs is a carb adjustment- but what the hell do I know- I bought the blown Mantis in the first place!!


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## walker1 (Apr 27, 2009)

Docsab said:


> Walker1- Too bad you're not closer to Philly- I'm giving away my chainsaw(see swap and sell). I think all it needs is a carb adjustment- but what the hell do I know- I bought the blown Mantis in the first place!!


I used to live in Conn. until 1990. Don't feel bad- we all make a mistake occasionally. I've made my share and have felt foolish at times. :thumbsup:


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## Lawnmowertech (Nov 12, 2008)

30yearTech said:


> Know what, I disagree. Not everyone that advertises on craigslist is a thief! I advertise there and I am damn good at what I do, and my customers are happy with my work. I could give you hundreds of references from satisfied craigslist customers. Generally if the customer is satisfied, you never hear about it, but if they are dissatisfied, you will definitely hear about it.
> 
> I have heard horror stories from craigslist customers as well, but you need to do your due diligence anytime you purchase something used.
> How do you know the guy that sold this was trying to rip anyone off?
> ...


i also advertise there expecally if i am running a special on parts prices etc.


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## Guest (May 18, 2009)

i agree, not everyone on craigslist is bad, BUT, i will say, there are some creeps out there!!!


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## LowRider (Dec 23, 2008)

pyro_maniac69 said:


> no offense, but you are giving them a little TOO much credit IMO, there are a lot of shops out there that will do a compression check, see that it isn't up to par, and call the customer and tell them its junk


yep. i had that problem a week ago on a tiller i have to fix now myself. Gears where getting stuck. and all the guy did was pop them out by hand. something i already know to do but it doesn't fix the cause or keep it from doing it again. What makes me mad is the fact i told him the problem when i dropped it off over a month and a half. i think he didn't want to fix it.

So it does happen even when you tell them


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