# Model Motoring non magnetic track.



## tjettim (Nov 29, 2005)

Anyone have any and how do you like it? I am realy
tempted to make a layout out of it for a new level
of racing.In Europe non mag 1/32 racing is real big.
One 12 volt battery would handle all the track's needs.
Two classes would probably be enough.Stock and Super
Stock.An unlimited class could be run also.It should end
any magnet wars and the emphasis would be on weight
and low centers of gravity.Sound like fun?


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## Mexkilbee (Apr 17, 2008)

I raced with some guys a few years back (still race with some of them, just a differant place now), they had an AFX quad oval, but the front stretch was non-magnet Model motoring, we raced Tyco 440 stock cars and that was fun. but are you talking about HO or 1/32 scale? T-jets, Fray or stock, T(yco)jets, BSRT's G-Jet, Wiz's Thunderstorm. Everyone I race with like em, and we are all looking for the next T-jet. That is were a fraction of original racers have takin to Slot-it 1/32 group C cars with no magnets and that class is killing the HO racing at the club. I am even thinking about it. It cost just as much to race in that class as it does to race Fray.


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## rudykizuty (Aug 16, 2007)

I'm still a relative noob to the hobby........never heard of non-mag track. How's that?


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## coach61 (Sep 6, 2004)

rudykizuty said:


> I'm still a relative noob to the hobby........never heard of non-mag track. How's that?



Your Joez Cousin? ( hes the knob lol..) Non mag does not have the vent holes under the magnets.. someone post a pic and show him because otherwise this reply means nothing without pics..lol


Dave


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## rudykizuty (Aug 16, 2007)

coach61 said:


> Your Joez Cousin? ( hes the knob lol..) Non mag does not have the vent holes under the magnets.. someone post a pic and show him because otherwise this reply means nothing without pics..lol
> 
> 
> Dave


LOL....I said noob....as in newb.....as in newbie.

All the same, if you called me a knob, it wouldn't be the first time someone's done that 

Anyway, what vent holes under what magnets? I thought this was about non-magnetic _track_. As in, non-metal or non-magnetic rails (???) or am I misunderstanding something.


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## hojoe (Dec 1, 2004)

Model Motoring made replica track of the old aurora lock n joiner track, but the magnets on the magnatration cars were not attracted to the rails. I guess he used aluminum for the rails. 
hojoe


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## tjettim (Nov 29, 2005)

The Model Motoring track has Stainless steel rail.The alloy
used is non-magnetic.After racing 1/32 a few times I am
trying to apply what is working there that draws people
in to the 1/32 sport to H.O. racing.Realistic looking cars,
realistic speeds and more driving feedback from the cars,
powerslides etc.I originaly thought T-jets were good for
the hobby but now they look like little go-karts with the 
wheels sticking way out and they cost too much to build.
With no downforce even an unlimited car should be much
cheaper to build-two magnets is all you'll need.Who knows
what production car would work best? Maybe a Riggen?
The G-jets were great until people started sorting motor
magnets for more downforce and believe me it makes a big
difference on the cars.


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## Mexkilbee (Apr 17, 2008)

You don't need to have non-magnetic rails, just cars with no traction magnets. 
TjetTim those damm racers, always looking for an advantage. Look at the cost of a Slot-it 1/32, in race trim, anglewinder conversion, slip-ons (Slot-it Spec tires) and upgraded Slot-it motor (sealed), a winning car is less than a Fray car, less than a G-Jet (due to the fact stated above, by TJetTim), and they handle and race excellent. 
The other factor is the parts. Every Slot-it part is on the rack at the shop, cases of cars behind the counter, and none of them are anybetter than the other. T-Jets, you got to have a Computer, on-line access and a Paypal account to be compititive. I hate to say it, but I'm really gettin close to changing scale. BUT WILL ALLWAYS LOVE THE NON-MAGNET RACING. 
And then I read the post again and realized that if they made Non-Magnet track readily availible, it would not matter how many G-Jet Motor Mags you bought. I guess that would be the way after all. going to take my ridilin now.


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## tjettim (Nov 29, 2005)

That's the point.We don't need to lose any more people to
1/32.I like to race a little 1/32 but HO is my main fix.Non
magnetic track or an H.O. "Magnet Marshall" like Professor
motor makes for 1/32 may be the answer.


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## TurnNBurn (Mar 13, 2007)

Tim, could you route an HO track out of MDF and then, instead of rail, just use copper tape like the 1/32 guys do. I thought they made copper tape narrower than the 1/32 guys use. For the cars, I think you would just need to use a slide-guide or solder some thin braid to the pick-up shoes. I thought HO drag guys did this on some their Tjets. Just an idea...

Steve


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

The go-kart factor of Fray/VHORS style race car could easily be corrected. All you have to do is create a new class that clearly stipulates that the wheels and tires shall not protrude from the car's body - period. Plain and simple. No fuss, no bother. But what do you basically end up with at this point? Yeah, the venerable original AF/X car. Happens to be one of my favorite cars of all time, the ultimate evolution of the Aurora TJet, embracing little more than gravity and driver provided traction and launch control.


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## resinmonger (Mar 5, 2008)

*AFX - Oh Yeah!*



AfxToo said:


> The go-kart factor of Fray/VHORS style race car could easily be corrected. All you have to do is create a new class that clearly stipulates that the wheels and tires shall not protrude from the car's body - period. Plain and simple. No fuss, no bother. But what do you basically end up with at this point? Yeah, the venerable original AF/X car. Happens to be one of my favorite cars of all time, the ultimate evolution of the Aurora TJet, embracing little more than gravity and driver provided traction and launch control.


I will have to agree with AfxToo. The original AFX is my favorite car. Before the AFX came out, I basically put enough hop up parts in TJets/Tuff Ones to get to what an AFX was. After AFX, I bought newer cars because they were there and they had cool bodies. I have a fair cross section of cars now but if my _way back _machine would ever work, it'd be arm loads of AFXs that I'd bring back to today. 

Russ the Hutt


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

tjettim said:


> That's the point.We don't need to lose any more people to
> 1/32.I like to race a little 1/32 but HO is my main fix.Non
> magnetic track or an H.O. "Magnet Marshall" like Professor
> motor makes for 1/32 may be the answer.


I don't think non-magnetic track is the answer as you'll lose more than you'll gain, and I think there's evidence to support this by simply looking at how Bianchi slider tracks (nice tracks, btw) do over time. Every one I've know of ends up dusty then for sale at a huge loss, heck I think there was one here on HT that ended up getting thrown away. I've always said and still stand by the fact that the problems in HO today aren't the cars, it's the rules. Now, the Magnet Marshall could alleviate some issues, but it too could create new ones. First off, everyone would have to get one cuz it'd be a hell of a thing to show up at a race and have your setup DQ'd. Even if you could change your setup to pass, you're now a step behind the guys who are comfortable with their cars that they already knew would pass prior to the race.

I proposed this a while back, and still think it'd be the way to fly:

Require all current manufacturers to mark their mags to indicate strength +/- 5%. They already have the equipment to do it. If they don't do it, their products aren't legal to race, simple as that. If they do it and get caught trying to cheat for those "special drivers", DQ all their product in that race and maybe a few more for good measure, then let their customers cry to them about why they lost. (Hell there's even the possibility of legal implications due to false advertising). I'm not a big fan of 1:1 racing comparisons, but on this subject a good point is that NASCAR or any other santioning body ain't afraid to tell any manufacturer to can it when need be. I have nothing against the people who build this stuff for us to play with, but quite truthfully they've been allowed to wreak havoc in this hobby using us racers as the pawns, and you can be sure it will continue in the "Jet" world. 

Time to set things right. :thumbsup:


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

> Require all current manufacturers.....


Umm, so "who" is doing the "requiring?"

The manufacturers are just businessmen trying to make a living. They are free to do whatever they wish. Just like us. They decide what to build and we decide what to buy. It's a self regulating system with total freedom on both sides.

Anyone is free to become a manufacturer. Not being one but dealing with many on a frequent basis, I'd imagine it's a pretty tough job to take on. Maybe putting your family's financial future on the line, taking out a second mortgage on your home, maybe having to put up with some sleepless nights worrying about whether that supplier in China is going to dump a load of crap on you despite your best laid plans and up front legwork. Living high on the hog is probably not how you would describe a typical HO slot car manufacturer's lifestyle. Matching 401K contributions, company subsidized pension and healthcare, 4 weeks paid vacation, ... what are those? Lifestyles of the "jus' gettin' by" and the infamous. This too could all be yours! You too can become an HO slot car products manufacturer - and then you can sit back and allow other people to tell you how to run your business. 

Sound like a plan?


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## wheelszk (Jul 8, 2006)

Ouch!!!!!


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## jstudrawa (Mar 20, 2008)

Someone's cheerios got pissed in hard this morning. 

So none of them are successful at all? Don't forget, going into the slot car business is a CHOICE they make, just like my folks and their Moe's franchise or my own job. Please don't make them out to be martyrs or victims.

Not bad points when you step back and take the venom out, but a group of racers SUGGESTING an idea may work better 

Edit: I chime in here, as a newb, because I have joined a club that doesn't race certain manufacturer's cars for one reason or another. I'd personally like to see standards agreed to and less anomosity between them. From reading board upon board, the upper levels of HO slot racing is a messy place.


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## Mexkilbee (Apr 17, 2008)

I would like to see standardized classes. From state to state you could carry one car and go racing at any event that ran that class. That would be wonderful. I say I race fray, but not exactly. Do to a Body manufacture (Resin, in our area) the cars you are up against will have exagerated side pods, air dam snow plows, and even huge "Hood scopes". I don't cry about it, I went and bought one myself. But for the newbie, if he dosn't have on-line access, or isn't first in line at the slot show merchandise table, you are not going to get one, and then you will be left in the back as an also ran. I would normaly say "Tuff toodles for you", but I see more and more guys selling thier HO's and buying 1/32 instead. If not walking away fom the hobby all together. In the past I have stated and I'll state it again: racing the sport of Kings.... and as Mad Max would say, "Speed cost, how fast can you afford". I'm not condoning it, or happy with it, and wish it wasn't so, but racers are allways going to look for the advantage. Aftermarket parts suppliers are going to feed on it. In my opinion "Fray" is the best and worst thing to happen to the T-Jet. but I love it so (actually I love "Stock" more, but it's getting harder and more expensive every season to compete).


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

I didn't portray the manufacturers as martyrs or victims. They are just regular guys like the rest of us trying to make ends meet in a highly competitive market. 

I'm all for constructive ideas. But show me one that doesn't start with "I think that someone else ought to do this or that for me," at their own expense, and with no apparent benefit to them. If the tables were turned, you would listen, maybe take it "under advisement," and then get back to doing what you know has value, working your butt off to keep your loyal customers happy. 

So my counterpoint is, if you are so passionate about about something and the way something "ought to be done," then dang it, go do it yourself. That's the foundation of entrepreneurship. That used to be 'the foundation that hobbyists lived by. If you thought you had a better idea, a better product, and better way to do something, you did it yourself. If I came across too strong on that point, I apologize. That's just the culture I was raised in. 

I completely agree with the point that the racers are the ones caught in the middle. Absolutely. However I completely believe, based on my own personal experience, that it's not solely as a result of the manufacturers. Racers are subjected to attack from both sides. If the people running a racing organization have it in for a manufacturer and decide to take it out on the manufacturer, who do they really end up punishing? The racer of course, the poor schmuck who has $800 bucks worth of parts in his box that are instantly rendered worthless because of rule changes. Believe me, the mantra of "so and so should never have sold you those parts" (even though they were perfectly legal at the time) does not play well with me. So who is worse, the manufacturers or the organizations? Neither, they are both the same. In most cases they are one and the same, and even if not officially, the alliances of the people in charge are always apparent.

All that being said, I still love racing immensely. But I race with my eyes wide open and I look out for myself. I'll race anywhere at anytime with any organization. If I have to run brand X car in one series and brand Y in another, no problem. I don't pick sides and don't give a crap about history or events that happened or didn't happen in the past. I don't inherit other people's problems. I respect the national racing organizations for what they do, and at times they shine brilliantly like they did at this years HOPRA Nats, but I fully understand that they are just a ragtag collection of people held together by the thinnest of bonds that could disappear instantly. I've been doing this for decades in "slow burn" mode and I'm not going to get all fired up and flame out over some hot topic de jour. The center of my slot car hobby universe is still where it all started; my track, my basement, and dabbling in everything from tweaking TJets to painting racing shells to running magnet cars that would distort the operation of grandpa's pacemaker. And occasionally I take a break from it all.


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

AFXToo I think you're reading more into my suggestion than need be. You are right though, part is the fault of groups that let it happen and do at times cause some of the rifts with as I said "the rules". But think about it, arms (above stock) are marked for the consumer, why settle for brown-bag magnets? Even a simple smear of paint would suffice..."_x_-brand mags can run _x_-color mags in this class". I'm not saying to allow them to make only one mag or stop advancing the technology, but if they were to simply mark the product it would end the mag wars once and for all, and that would be good for us _and _them. It takes any guesswork out of who used what method to check them, how were they holding them, what was room temp...blah...blah...blah the list of excuses that fuels the fires goes on and on and on. And while I'm grateful for all who put time, effort, and $$$ into this hobby it's _no excuse_ for the damaging things that go on between three certain individuals and I've been neck-deep in the middle in the past, trust me it ain't a pretty place to be and my statements are based on things I've experienced not just what I'd like to see.


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

SwamperGene, point taken and well understood. Thanks again for your thoughtful and well articulated position. We are without doubt striving for the same positive outcome for those of us who really care about the future of a hobby we love.


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

AfxToo said:


> We are without doubt striving for the same positive outcome for those of us who really care about the future of a hobby we love.


That we are :thumbsup:


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## resinmonger (Mar 5, 2008)

I can have a crappy day at work, come home to a stack of bills and think the day just bites. Then I log on here and see people passionate about the hobby I love and it all seems a little better. Thanks for putting it on the line for us to read guy! :thumbsup:


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## tjettim (Nov 29, 2005)

A non magnetic class of cars will never replace magnet racing.
But it would give H.O. more options for the racers.Today,even
with Tjets and AFX non magnatraction cars,sorting magnets
for downforce is necessary to be competetive.Like Unlimited
racing,there has to be a certain number of people that would
enjoy racing a realistic looking,non-magnet car.And to truly
achieve this,the track would have to be non-magnetic.


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

tjettim said:


> Today,even
> with Tjets and AFX non magnatraction cars,sorting magnets
> for downforce is necessary to be competetive.


The magnetic field of a sitting car's mags changes substantially once the arm is juiced up, I doubt there's any "race winning" downforce going on when the cars are going around the track. It would be a cool subject to send to Mythbusters though.


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## oddrods (Feb 6, 2007)

The problem I see with a spec magnet is that you could mark it all you wanted but it's all too easy to zap a magnet to a stronger strength. As far as I no there is no way to check visually for this so you once again have to have special equipment to tech the mags. I seem to remember that when the G jet came out there was a ton of heated debate about the fact that thye Gjet was race ready out of the box and no amount of tinkering would give anyone an advantage. Guess what? People will tinker and more speed was to be had after all! That's part of racing. The only way you will ever be on an equal playing field is with IROC style racing. And that won't cut it for most racers. That and how will the hobby grow if you don't need to own your own car/controller. To me it's quite boring that way. That being said I do like IROC as an additional class but I like to tinker. That's 80 percent of the fun and that's what keeps me spending my money on the hobby. as long as the rules are clearly stated and they are the same for everyone And they can be easily teched then it would seem to me this is the price of doing business. If you want everything totally equal than ther are several video game consoles that have very equal racing availible for all. Rob


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

Mags can only be zappped to their original "as new" strength and often will not hit that mark, so it's not really an issue.

I agree, IROC can be fun but it ain't for me either, I like my own "stuff", win or lose. In fact, I was gonna comment that for all the hype on G-Jet racing, seems most of it you read about is IROC, doesn't say alot for mass appeal of the platform really.


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## tjettim (Nov 29, 2005)

Racing is like sex,it is all good,some is just better than others.
I like IROC racing,but I would not like it all the time.I want to
try Magless racing.Anyone got any magless track they want 
to get rid of?


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

> I like my own "stuff", win or lose.


Me too, and this includes bodies as well. I've been to races where half the field, and most if not all of the podium finishers are running cars built by the resident hot builder, especially with TJets. I've been offered "hot" cars several times. Thanks for the offer but I'll "run what I brung." It doesn't bother me at all because some guys are just there to race, and they want to be competitive and have good equipment to run. Heck, my fun started well before the race, when I started setting up the car and testing and tuning in my shop. If 1:1 pro racing is any indication, the guys that know how to borrow and buy well are probably the true racers and I'm just an amateur and hobbyist. And I say that with totally glee because that's exactly what I want to be.

I totally agree that the mixed format races are the most fun. Running different types of cars in different formats is a blast. I like IROC in the mix but would not want to limited to that. Although I would at some point like to put together an "Aurora-Tomy IROC Grand Champion" race that requires each driver to race one of each type of car in ascending historical order. Start with a round of TJets, then TuffOnes, AFX, Super II, Magnatraction, G-Plus, SMT, Turbo, SG+, SRT, and Mega G. (Did I miss any?) Keep it simple, either low golf score based on finish position or most total laps wins. All near stock, equally prepared, vintage hardbodies, with everyone racing every car. I'd imagine this could be done in the time frame it takes to do an Enduro, or maybe over a weekend with plenty of partying and social breaks thrown in for good measure. Maybe have a slot show and sale thrown in the mix, like the historic race weekends at Watkins Glen and Monterey. This would be a hands-on way to relive Aurora slot car history.


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## tjd241 (Jan 25, 2004)

*There ya go!!!*



AfxToo said:


> Keep it simple, either low golf score based on finish position or most total laps wins. All near stock, equally prepared, vintage hardbodies, plenty of partying and social breaks thrown in for good measure, maybe have a slot show, a hands-on way to relive Aurora slot car history.


Bingo!..... Who was it that posted their awesome skinny tired Vintage Willys , Modifieds and such?? _THAT_ looked like fun to me. Organized racing can be slippery slope. As time goes on more and more rules pop up and then the fighting starts. I understand the concept of trying to make things fair, but maybe as much effort should go into making it fun (regardless of class). nd


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## tjd241 (Jan 25, 2004)

*jstu.... seriously?*



jstudrawa said:


> just like my folks and their Moe's franchise


I had no idea he had started franchising!! Can't wait for them here on the east coast!!! nd


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## rudykizuty (Aug 16, 2007)

tjd241 said:


> I had no idea he had started franchising!! Can't wait for them here on the east coast!!! nd


Phone call for Al...Al Coholic...is there an Al Coholic here?


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## tjd241 (Jan 25, 2004)

*You just missed him...*

He just left with Amanda.... Amanda Hugginkis.  nd


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

Ivana!

Ivana Tinkle?


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## dlw (Aug 17, 1999)

Hugh Jass.......I wanna see a Hugh Jass!!!


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