# A Jupiter 2 that makes sense



## Avian (Feb 16, 2010)

For years there have been debates about the interiors of the Jupiter 2 and their incompatibility with the exterior shape of the ship. I'm in the process of revising the ship for the upcoming new _Lost in Space_ web series, produced by Kelly Rhodes.

Ron Gross once posted here an excellent analysis of the profile and how the ship must increase in size to accommodate two decks. Kelly and I believe we have a workable solution that maintains the profile with a larger diameter, yet still manages to utilize the existing interiors.

I know from reading comments here that many of you have given this problem a lot of thought. Before we go much further though and publish any drawings/models, I'd like to hear from other modelers some of the nagging questions they've had over the years regarding the ship, and their ideas for possible solutions.

In other words, what would *you* do? How big would you make the ship? How would you handle things like portholes & the viewports?

P.S. - Yes, the ship will primarily be CG, but real sets are being planned for interior and some exterior shots. We haven't discussed whether there will be a filming miniature, but I wouldn't rule it out.


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

Works for me how it was handled on the show in the '60's. It has stood the test of time and does not need to "make sense" for me to enjoy the stories. The wheel is round, you can't inprove it by making it rounder. Just my opinion.


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## teslabe (Oct 20, 2007)

With what I've seen so far, I know I'll love your end product. I do think that too
much of a change to the look of the J-2 may turn off the die hard fan, just a thought. But go for it, I know I'll watch.....:thumbsup:


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## Captain Han Solo (Apr 5, 2002)

I just joined your site mate! Just waiting for approval:thumbsup:


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## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

Well, I think the concept of maintaining the exterior profile and shape and adjusting the scale to fit the interior works for me, as long as we go with just the 2-deck concept. 

Reduce the size of the airlock hatch, the main viewport is now huge (like the Gemini XII. Hmm, funny how that happens, huh?), have to re-scale the steps on the landing legs and consider if the hatch for the Chariot needs revising. Space Pod, I think that needs to be shrunk to be more in-line with the concept that it was built after launch by the group.

Increasing the hull size means more storage space for food, fuel and life support. Gotta store the Space Washing Machine somewhere!

Chariot is stowed in a taken-down state, no driving it off the ramp. the core chassis maybe can be driven off and used as a tractor as-is.

I'm...really in the camp that says there's no need for Dr. Smith and maybe even the Robot. I know this makes me one to be shunned, but that whole relationship/reason was suited for the '60s. There's not need for forced humor and artificial threats (Dr. Smith ate all the food? now what? Dr. Smith dumped all the fuel, now what?), simple, realistic survival issues can create enough drama and tension.

I can be talked into keeping the Robot. It's...he's a useful tool for a pioneer family. 

Do they hop from planet to planet, or do they follow the "Swiss Family Robinson in space" playbook? Well, the problem with the latter is, it gets boring real fast. Everything has to come to them, which means the spot they crash on is the crossroads of the universe or something. I think maybe a bit of planetbound and then spaceward, like 3 episode chunks. It would be nice if each planetfall somehow had a positive movement to it, something gets fixed, some new star sighting works out, stuff like that. If they run into other Earthmen (long range scouts, lost patrols, that sort of thing) it actually moves them in a positive way, NEVER use the old "Oh, by the way, Earth is right over ZZZZZT" gag.

and I'm sure I'm going over old ground, sorry. It's all the stuff that spills out when I think of this subject.


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

I don't mean to throw water on the fire, but the reason the movie in '98 and the pilot '03failed is because too many people wanted to put their own mark on "Lost in Space". As I wrote before, it worked and is loved, the way it was done in 1965-68, with those writers, those characters and those actors. The reason the new "Doctor Who", or even the web sreies "Star Trek: Phase II", work is that they follow the original, faults and all and respect the source material. To me "Lost in Space" is what it is and I love it that way, the Jupiter II is just as much a character as any actor. Changing it will make the character unrelatable, the J.J. Abrams Enterprise is a perfect example! Good luck on your efforts, but 45 years from now, I think people will still be in love with the show from the '60's that does not make complete sense.


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## Opus Penguin (Apr 19, 2004)

This looks very interesting and I will watch the site for more updates! Is this to be similar to the Star Trek Phase II and Excalibur fan-made shows? I wish this was something I could be a part of, but I suspect you are nowhere near Austin, Texas! I did sign on to your site and am waiting membership.

As for the ship, definitely keep the design as it will keep the fans (like myself) happy. But for today's audience, there needs to be more realism. I would make the ship bigger, to accommodate two decks, and a space pod. You may need to change the view-port and hatch orientation to fit appropriately to the scale. If a Chariot is to eventually make its way into the show, I would have it to where it needs to be partially assembled as stated in the show, but you'll have to have some means on how large parts can come out of the ship during sequences where it has crashed. The bottom hatch is find for "legged" landings, but there is no realistic way to get it out of the ship if it is crashed unless you make room for it (i.e. an access hatch on the upper level or some sort). However, I would say do not keep crashing the ship as seen in the original series so you have more functionality to the ship, and Don doesn't look so incompetent.

I say keep the robot!! Dr. Smith could go, but he makes a good antagonist. I just wouldn't make him so campy but more of a real threat. He could have some skill or something to prevent John and Don from jettisoning him off.

I also have to say, you need to make it somewhat different than the 60's show. You never know ... this may gain some popularity and someone may take notice. You could see these web shows inspire and actual TV show. But you have to walk the fine balance between keeping fans happy and creating a new show for the fans of today (i.e. Battlestar Galactica).


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## WmTodd (Feb 11, 2010)

How interesting, I was just thinking the other day how the pod bay doors on the upper hull of the J2 would allow it to deploy during those "crash" scenarios, for exploration/transportation, also freeing up the lower deck a bit. The down side of that is a hatch like that would kind of ruin the pristine look of the upper hull, and aesthetically, the pod deploying/docking thru the underside of the J2 just looks better. That hatch on the upper hull does make a bit more sense, what with all the other stuff going on down below, and the hatch could slide open, pretty much like the airlock door.

BTW...what is the diameter of the C-57d in comparison to the J2? Just a thought, nothing important or even related there..... heading off to work, don't have time to look into that. :drunk:

I mentioned elsewhere also, though, now that I think about it....the Forbidden Planet astrogator is much cooler looking than the J2 astrogator, as much as I love it.


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## Tim Nolan (Jul 9, 2008)

I agree. Keep the shape, cut the scale in half and make it huge that way!


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## charonjr (Mar 27, 2000)

When I was in the Air Force, in Basic Training and standing for hours on end at attention, I imagined a LIS series with a Jupiter 2 with 5 decks! Of course, the hatch was relatively small and the main viewport was correspondingly huge, like an immense picture window. The pilots chairs had swing arms with controls, it was totally re-imagined. I kept Dr. Smith and the Robot. The technology changed, more advanced in my head in 1980, than what was in the show, but in keeping with the established ideas.

One thing I did, was think that the ship had to go sublight, hence the need for the freezing tubes, but had a FTL capability. The problem with the FTL drive, was that velocity was essentially infinite at little power, and very hard to control at high power, in order to lower the velocity to several hundred times that of C. The drive, in essense, converted the ship into tachyons. This made the notion of kicking into FTL a great way to get Lost in Space, unless extensive planning and power were made available to control it. Not too different from the hyperdrive mentioned in the show, I'd guess.


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## BlackbirdCD (Oct 31, 2003)

Look at the size, shape, and scale of the 1998 Movie Jupiter One shell. There ya go.


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## Larry523 (Feb 16, 2010)

If you want to get rid of the "TARDIS Effect" then get the interior plan where you want it first. I'd start with the lower deck, since it seems to be the most problematic. Once you have the plan and elevation drawings set to what you think they should be to accommodate everything that ought to be there (Pod, Chariot, enough staterooms for all, a medical bay, food/equipment storage, engines, reactors, avionics, life support equipment, etc.), then scale the hull design up to fit the interior, keeping the proportions of the original as much as possible. Then, if you find yourself with additional interior volume to play around with (likely, if you stick to the original proportions), go back and make adjustments to your interior design to fill the hull. The purists will never be happy, but I think most of us would be satisfied as long as you keep the proportions and contours, and stick to the "spirit" of the original design. I know I would. Looking forward to seeing what you come up with!


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## woof359 (Apr 27, 2003)

I thought the movie Jupiter 1 was kinda the right size,tweeking the old shows like Trek to fit todays audiances is a good idea if you dont go over board. the new Enterprise was for the movies fit, the Egg from the movie went in the wrong direction, they shood have kept the saucer intact, I loved the lift off in the movie.


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## j2man (Jun 18, 1999)

I seriously kept an open mind when I saw the 1998 movie. Was very excited to see the original design for the lift off. What turned me off was when the ship crashed and west reported that the chariot and pod were nothing but scrap metal. Talk about cutting your own nose off of the market. I also believe a tour of the jupiter 2, introducing the audience to every part of the ship would have brought the old fans into liking the egg shape a bit more. Equip the movie Jupiter 1 with landing legs and pod and chariot and I'll be happy.


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## kenlee (Feb 11, 2010)

Keep the outline of the ship as close as possible to the original. Keep Dr. Smith and the Robot, but loose the campy interplay between the two of them. The character of Dr.Smith should be closer to what he was in the first 4 or 5 episodes, someone the family should be suspicious of and never trust, always putting himself first, even at the expense of the lives of everyone around him. Also the interraction between Smith and Will always creeped me out, what possible excuse could a man of his age use to justify spending so much time alone with an apparently easily manipulated, although very intelligent teenage boy? The Robot should be just a machine, a tool to be used by the family to accomplish tasks that they themselves cannot do, the "feelings" it developed did not make sense to me as a kid nor do they do so now.
The stories should be intelligent and serve to advance the story of their plight, get them that much closer to finding their way home or to Alpha Centauri, not just be a vehicle to show off the "monster of the week" or "what has Smith done now to endanger them" or even "the super smart kid saves the day" type stories. Integrating bits of alien tech they find or gain through contact with alien cultures into the ship to improve their chances could be an interesting thing to do. Also, please, no uncontrolled ship crashes, even the best made ship could not really survive what the Jupiter 2 went through the first three seasons. 
One more thing, loose the Bloop, please.


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## Avian (Feb 16, 2010)

Thanks everyone for the thoughtful replies so far! Everything is being noted.

And _Don't Panic_. No Bloop. However, a few of you have already guessed some of the changes.

Kinoshita's designs are classics and we plan on utilizing the hero profile but with a larger diameter. There are several reasons for this decision and I could explain them in detail to anyone who wants to know. But suffice it to say that many, many long hours of thought and research went into this and we feel it's the best solution.

We also feel we have sufficient room for storytelling purposes with a ship in the 90+ foot range, which may be larger than some people might expect. However, certain things work surprisingly well with this diameter.

This of course immediately brings up issues of viewport, porthole and airlock door proportions, as some of you mentioned. And it is arguable that the viewport is the most critical. But we can't, nor do we want to, have a wall of glass 37 feet across and 9 feet high spread out in front of a vast control console. So we are addressing this with a solution that some might hate, some may find intriguing, and some may love.

That's OK. I feel the Irwin Allen Universe is slippery enough that we can afford to try something new.

This is indeed a "new" Jupiter 2. As I said to Ron Gross, you'll have to accept the infamous "Two Darrins" switch in _Bewitched_. But we don't want to do what the 1998 LIS movie did - make superficial nods to the original series while taking the character of the show so far off course that it became _"Lost in Some Other Space."_

And keep in mind that this is being done for the love of the show - there is no money here. It's a fan-made project with all the limitations that come with it.

The show will be a quasi-reboot with a prologue that establishes a backstory that's turning out to be quite interesting. (Yes, we eventually learn what _Aeolus 14 Umbra_ means.) However, the assumption is that everything that happened in the show "kind of still happened" and we are continuing the saga as sort of a "4th season."

*Sans silliness.*
:tongue:


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## Robert Hargrave (Dec 4, 2003)

Not so much a change to the Jupiter 2, but an added feature. The TV ship was rather small for deep space exploration, no matter how advanced the drive system was you still need equipment, food, air and water and the J-2 was not big enought for all the goodies we saw weel after week. There was an episode I think called "the lighthouse" the J-2 docked with, it had a central landing pad with 2 or 3 cylinders that extended out forming a outer ring. Now if you make the J-2 a short range craft for landing on a planet, maybe being able to make short flights within a system, but this base unit is the main drive, it stores extra supplies and equipment, has extended living quarters. You could make the space pod a little heaftier, so it can make runs back to the main base and pickup equipment pods to ferry down to the planet surface. Or add a ferry craft to the main base, and in a worse case senerio the base becomes a lifeboat if the J-2 becomes disabled beyond repair. Just my thoughts.


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## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

Oh, I can think of all manner of things that could be done to explain the giant viewport.

1. It's not actually a 'direct vision' thing, rather a forward sensor array that just happens to look like windows. Of course great care would have to be taken so they don't look like engine exhaust and confuse the viewers. Downside: no dramatic CG tracking shots zooming in to the actors who are reacting to whatever event is going on outside.

2. reverse the interior. Upper deck is the living quarters with a giant 'bay window', lower deck is the pilot area and freeze tubes. Frankly, this seems the most practical solution. Upside: hammers home that this isn't the same LIS, the rules have been changed. Downside: Well, a good crash everyone's day is ruined. No dramatic shots looking out the window as some critter tries to gnaw thru the force field.

3. Original floorplan, but just don't worry about expanding the flight controls to fill the massive space. Think like some of Probert's prelim drawing for the Enterprise-D bridge. Downside: it would take some very careful art direction to really use the space. There would be a lot of greenscreen time because that huge window would be in every shot and I don't think you can get away with the old 'hang some black velvet and string some small lights there' gag anymore.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Steve H said:


> Do they hop from planet to planet, or do they follow the "Swiss Family Robinson in space" playbook? Well, the problem with the latter is, it gets boring real fast. Everything has to come to them, which means the spot they crash on is the crossroads of the universe or something.


I can think of a reason for that right off the bat-they crash on a particular planet because the planet is some kind of natural attractor (come up with whatever technical/astronomical reason you want). Ships have been pulled off course and crashed there for millenia. In fact, there are wrecks scattered all over the planet. This gives them a wealth of alien artifacts and cultures to explore. They can scavenge the wrecks for parts to repair the J2. Perhaps one or two of the wrecks still have living crew surviving, giving our heroes some friends or antagonists, and a glimpse of their own future. Once a season, maybe, a new alien ship crashes.


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## Lou Dalmaso (Jul 13, 2004)

find and read the Innovation comic that Billy Mumy co-wrote.

He reset the tone of the whole show in one panel, back to the first season serious ness

and we did find out who Aoles 14 Umbra was


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## kenlee (Feb 11, 2010)

Lou Dalmaso said:


> find and read the Innovation comic that Billy Mumy co-wrote.
> 
> He reset the tone of the whole show in one panel, back to the first season serious ness
> 
> and we did find out who Aoles 14 Umbra was


I loved what was done with that series, I was just disappointed that they never got to finish it. 
About a year or so ago I was pleasently suprised to find that "Journey to the Far Side of the Soul" was actually completed in a graphic novel that had just been published. It included all of the books that already been printed by Innovation with the adition of the final parts of this great story. I think that this would be a good place to start when developing new stories


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## Fernando Mureb (Nov 12, 2006)

Hi Avian

I do not remember where I saw an ingenious solution that was designed to allow the reconciliation of both decks of the Jupiter 2 and the internal dimensions of their diameters, without distorting the external lines of the hull. The guy just thought of using non-concentric circles, as in the diagram attached.

Of course he had to make some adjustments, especially with design of the air lock chamber and the external dimensions of the two main windows.

Good luck and thanks for the excellent work.


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## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

See, that's the thing to me. I don't feel the porthole (holes) or the airlock door size are quite as iconic to the profile as that window. I feel if you scale up the hull and reduce the size of the door (I'm not saying it right but I think you can get my meaning) it's not a dealbreaker.

Of course there's an interesting question, if you have the larger hull, and you're changing the core concept somewhat, do you really NEED that door? For planetary egress you have the landing legs/stairs/hatch, for EVA you can use the pod bay. Docking on alien ships there's probably the good old hatch in the center of the core and the "how does THAT work?!" magic universal docking adapter.


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## breid (May 8, 2008)

This is what I came up with for a better J2. I drew these up way back in the late 80's, when I was really bored. The basic hull shape is the same although much larger. I reoriented the landing gear and added two conventional chemical rockets as well as intakes for an air breathing engine for atmospheric use ( these would augment “the great Atomic Motors”). I figured on a crew of six. I used the Lost is Space Technical, The Space Shuttle Operator's and The Mars One Crew manuals as reference. The interior would have had a contemporary NASA look and was scaled to be as realistic as possible. In retrospect, I think I ended up with more space than I knew what to do with. As you can see there would be plenty of room in the center core, between the decks and around the perimeter for vehicle infrastructure. There would also be room for the Chariot ( that is in the lower right of the first drawing with two “people” for scale), the Space Pod and probes and micro satellites. 

Joe


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## Lou Dalmaso (Jul 13, 2004)

kenlee said:


> I loved what was done with that series, I was just disappointed that they never got to finish it.
> About a year or so ago I was pleasently suprised to find that "Journey to the Far Side of the Soul" was actually completed in a graphic novel that had just been published. It included all of the books that already been printed by Innovation with the adition of the final parts of this great story. I think that this would be a good place to start when developing new stories


Kenlee,
I completely missed that graphic novel. Any ideas how I could get a hold of one? it's out of print now


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## kenlee (Feb 11, 2010)

Lou Dalmaso said:


> Kenlee,
> I completely missed that graphic novel. Any ideas how I could get a hold of one? it's out of print now


I got mine directly from the publisher, wwwlisvoyage.com, the site has not been updated since november 2007 , that update indicates that it is sold out. It may turn up on e-bay or perhaps some of the forum members here may have an extra copy, If I had an extra copy, I would gladly part with it.

I did some checking around and found it listed for sale here:
http://www.hillcity-comics.com/graphic_novels_2006/new_graphic_novel6363.htm

I can't vouch for them since I have never dealt with them.


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

Lou Dalmaso said:


> Kenlee,
> I completely missed that graphic novel. Any ideas how I could get a hold of one? it's out of print now


Bill Mumy just put some up for sale on his Facebook page. They were all he had left I believe, and they sold quickly. I got mine, after missing out the first go-round!


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## Lou Dalmaso (Jul 13, 2004)

RSN said:


> Bill Mumy just put some up for sale on his Facebook page. They were all he had left I believe, and they sold quickly. I got mine, after missing out the first go-round!


AAAAAAAGGGHH!!!!


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

Lou Dalmaso said:


> AAAAAAAGGGHH!!!!


Glad I didn't mention the autograph.....ooops.


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## Lou Dalmaso (Jul 13, 2004)

RSN said:


> Glad I didn't mention the autograph.....ooops.


no, no, you probably shouldn't.


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

IIRC the comic showed the Jupiter 2 with a layered palted exterior with greebly and a reworked Robot with a hula-hoop alien forcefield generator, articulated legs and more mechanical hands...


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## Rallystone (Apr 16, 2010)

I actually have a copy here somewhere that I'd be more than happy to send your way, Lou, if you're still interested. Might take a day or two to dig it out of the stacks, and its not autographed or anything. Just PM or e-mail me an address, and its yours! Really! :thumbsup:


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## Lou Dalmaso (Jul 13, 2004)

PM sent


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## Avian (Feb 16, 2010)

Hi all,

Some of you are aware of the effort to "reconfigure" the Jupiter 2 for the upcoming web series. While you may or may not agree with this (e.g. the "new" J2 for the show has a diameter of 30 meters), I thought I'd post videos of the progress of the redesign. If nothing else, they may spur discussion of the ship and how it might have functioned if the show had taken a little more realistic approach to its design....

Here's a proposal of how the Robot actually gets on and off the ship. This is a cutaway of landing leg #2 (to make sense of how this works with the whole structure you may want to visit the LostInSpaceTheWebSeries website to see the plans.)


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## Avian (Feb 16, 2010)

At the bottom of the landing leg, a retractable lift will be available. This is an early design test. The final will be a little more elegant, I hope.


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

Looks like a lot of parts that could breakdown! The Robot on "Lost in Space" had the ability to seperate his treads and walk. That is how he was able to get up and down the stairs much faster than an elevator would. You put it out there, just my two cents!


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## Lou Dalmaso (Jul 13, 2004)

Why would you need an inner AND outer door on the gearwell? certainly by the time they decided to land, they wouldn't need an airlock (I mean they wouldn't land where there is no atmosphere) all of the airlock needs would be handled by the main hatch up on the flight deck

just my two cents


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

Also, after visiting the site as you asked, I see no reason to have a viewport if it is that recessed into the hull. The field of view would render it useless, other than looking straight ahead. Time would be better served coming up with an all new, unique, design for a new project, instead of trying to improve something that is still loved 45 years later. I think they did a lot of things right back then! Another two cents from me, added to Lou's, that makes six cents total!


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## Dar (Apr 20, 2007)

Avian. Dont listen to the negativity. Theres nothing wrong with trying to make a believeable J2 that lined up with what the show established in concept. I have always said that the ship can work with a few simple modifications concerning scale and some slight redesign. Asthetically the look of the ship remains. Great job so far.:thumbsup: The only thing I would improve with the landing gear ( as you already kind of suggested) is to clean it up a bit. Its a little busy but otherwise very good. Love what you guys are doing.

RSN: I love Lost in Space as well, but even I understand that probably in another 45 years when we are dead , the show will NOT be as well known.. In fact most people under the age of 25 (maybe 30) havent either seen the show or dont even know it exists. Anything new will only keep the show alive a little longer.


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## Avian (Feb 16, 2010)

Oh hey, I don't take the comments as negative at all.  I'm very interested in hearing opinions, so no worries!

There is a double set of doors with an airlock at the top of the Robot Glide because the J2 may very well land on a moon, abandoned spaceship or some other condition where there is no atmosphere or the atmosphere is dangerous. The Main Deck airlock is actually useless when the ship is on its tripod gear so we felt that one of the three legs should have one. That's part of the adventure!

The need for the Glide was pretty well clear from the beginning of this process. I don't think you can make a case that the Robot was articulated well enough to climb stairs, so we devoted one leg for the standard stairs (starboard forward) and one leg for the Robot and Cargo lift (rear). The 3rd leg (port forward) has some specialized functions, but it is not an egress.

Regarding the recessed viewport, camera studies from the interior show that the field of view is _nearly _as large as a flush viewport when standing 8-10 feet behind the glass. This is because the recess is splayed. The recess will also function as a "porch" in a sense, when the ship is grounded.

BTW, here's a comparison between the original and the revised ship for the web series:



Uploaded with ImageShack.us


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## Avian (Feb 16, 2010)

And for those who have not visited the web series site, here is our preliminary lower deck plan. This was thoroughly studied in 3 dimensions.


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## kenlee (Feb 11, 2010)

Avian said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Some of you are aware of the effort to "reconfigure" the Jupiter 2 for the upcoming web series. While you may or may not agree with this (e.g. the "new" J2 for the show has a diameter of 30 meters), I thought I'd post videos of the progress of the redesign. If nothing else, they may spur discussion of the ship and how it might have functioned if the show had taken a little more realistic approach to its design....
> 
> ...


Very cool, it always bugged me that there was no logical way for the robot to exit the ship easily while it was on it's landing gear. 
Back in the 80's I came across a set of Jupiter 2 blueprints that gave another solution that you may want to investigate, the glide tube elevator would lower all the way to the ground through a hinged hatch in the lower hull when the ship was on it's landing gear. The robot, with it's legs seperated could easily negotiate the single step down from the lift platform or perhaps a ramp could extend from in the lift platform to provide easy access for the robot.


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

Avian said:


> Oh hey, I don't take the comments as negative at all.  I'm very interested in hearing opinions, so no worries!
> 
> There is a double set of doors with an airlock at the top of the Robot Glide because the J2 may very well land on a moon, abandoned spaceship or some other condition where there is no atmosphere or the atmosphere is dangerous. The Main Deck airlock is actually useless when the ship is on its tripod gear so we felt that one of the three legs should have one. That's part of the adventure!
> 
> ...


I have to disagree on the viewport field of vision. If I am standing 30 feet back in the tunnel on 50 yard line of a stadium, my vision is limited to the center of the field. If I were standing in the opening, I can see end zone to end zone. Sorry, it is the draftsman and designer in me! Glad you take everything in stride and good luck with your project. As was said, as long as the brand name is kept alive great. I had a lot of young people at all my "Lost in Space" panels at DragonCon, I am not worried about the series being forgotten ANYTIME soon!!!


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## Avian (Feb 16, 2010)

Yes, the field of view is not quite as good as a flush viewport, but here's a few study pics. The camera in the first pic is set back about 10 feet from the flight console, at an eye height of 5'8" above the floor. As you can see, neither the upper nor lower splay can be seen.



Here, the camera is moved back to approximately where the astrogator is:



The splay of the viewport was studied from many differing angles. I guess it was the architect in me that had to make sure this would work.


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

I think Irwin would be happy with your layout, more instruments to explode! Very well rendered art! As long as you can create your vision, boneheaded, stuck in the '60's, opinions like mine don't matter! That is how I approach all my artwork, do it for the love of doing it. If others like it, that is just icing on the cake! Keep up the good work!


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## Tim H. (Jun 23, 2009)

You guys are fired! Taking too long, Mr. A wants this ready for filming yesterday! :tongue:

Well you're having fun, the art is great and certainly seems like a functional solution. The deep viewport well seems odd to look at compared with the original but yeah, on planet, couple of deck chairs, beer cooler.

If I may voice a quibble as a guy who lives in a really small apartment, regular opening doors on the cabins would be a pain - I think they'd be pocket door (is that right, the ones that slide in between walls?) or more likely roll top style either vertically into the roof or horizontally into a wall niche.

My two cents for free! Nice job. Of course you realize there maybe be people who want to buy a model of your version, or after market conversion kits for the Moebius.


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## Dar (Apr 20, 2007)

Avian. Im loving thismore and more. You are doing exactly what I have suggested in the past here on these boards, or more like wishing someone would do, a rescaled J2 asthetically like the original with some slight design and scale changes.

I would love to see a concept J2 like this turned into a model.

Very very cool. Cant wait to see more.(wish i had your drafting and design skills)


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## JohnG7 (Jan 1, 2010)

I love this project's artwork too. I'm seeing just what I would have wanted done myself!


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## Avian (Feb 16, 2010)

Thanks,folks! Again, I just wanted to say that I have no problems with differing opinions expressed about this project. It's dangerous to attempt changes to what is an iconic bit of television history. We wanted to respect the aesthetic of the original, yet have it make sense with the interiors and update the ship to reflect the fact that the new series will take place in the present (yes, I already know what you're thinking....  But the backstory that's been developed is intriguing.) So I can certainly understand when people become uncomfortable with the changes. That's OK.


Regarding the recessed viewport- which is admittedly the most controversial part of the design - there are two primary reasons for it.

One is that we are building practical sets for the show in addition to using green-screens. A fully-flush viewport would have created an expanse of glass nearly 30 feet across, with an equally gigantic control console to fill with instrumentation. As it is, the flight deck is expanding, being pushed outboard by 8 feet or so, but it is still within the practical requirements of buildability.

The second is that we wanted to keep the already-established look and scale of the original sets as much as possible. The expanded size of the ship not only lets us reconcile the two-deck issue but also gives us room for _new _spaces while keeping the familiarity of the old ones intact. This goes for the flight deck as well. It is larger, but not so much that it becomes a vast space that no longer has the intimacy of the original.

Therefore the decision was made to recess the viewport halfway back into the hull. The resulting splay of the side walls actually creates a cut in the hull that is closer to the original Gemini XII proportions. The bands of light do double-duty: They are not only adjustable flood lights but they are generators of a plasma window that serves to protect the viewport from the vacuum pressures of space at extremely high speeds. And, as mentioned, the viewport recess creates an observation "porch" when the ship is grounded.


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## Orne (Feb 23, 1999)

Avian, really like your ideas and the revised J2, pretty much have the same take I worked into my CCV-2/converted PL J2 (diameter slightly smaller at 80' but nothing wrong with a larger one in my opinion). Settled for an overall 1/72 scale exterior/interior. Noticed we both went for the recessed viewports; have you considered a holographic overlay that could be popped up with trajectory-plotting, galactic coordinates, etc. (not to mention the occassional visual greeting from a strange alien)?
http://infinityreach.multiply.com/photos/album/7/WORKBENCH#photo=15
http://infinityreach.multiply.com/photos/album/7/WORKBENCH#photo=16

My 1/24 scale build-up of the Innovation LIS version of the Jupiter II; David Campitti asked for exterior photos of the model at the '92 ComicCon and they were used for artists' reference for the remainder of series. Made a go of trying to fit in a Space Pod bay (originally it held a RC car battery for the interior lights before I started using a transformer) and some additions that made the vehicle better equipped for an interstellar voyage.
http://culttvman.com/main/?p=6416

Does the graphic novel carry beyond the last issue (#19) of the LIS series? Have the full collection, but this is the first I've heard about the GN.


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## kenlee (Feb 11, 2010)

Orne said:


> Avian, really like your ideas and the revised J2, pretty much have the same take I worked into my CCV-2/converted PL J2 (diameter slightly smaller at 80' but nothing wrong with a larger one in my opinion). Settled for an overall 1/72 scale exterior/interior. Noticed we both went for the recessed viewports; have you considered a holographic overlay that could be popped up with trajectory-plotting, galactic coordinates, etc. (not to mention the occassional visual greeting from a strange alien)?
> http://infinityreach.multiply.com/photos/album/7/WORKBENCH#photo=15
> http://infinityreach.multiply.com/photos/album/7/WORKBENCH#photo=16
> 
> ...


The graphic novel does complete the "Voyage to the Bottom of the Soul" storyline that started in issue 13.


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## Fernando Mureb (Nov 12, 2006)

Lou Dalmaso said:


> all of the airlock needs would be handled by the main hatch up on the flight deck
> just my two cents


Just to EVA.

But if the aim of the series is not only the colonization of a specific planet, but "to boldly go where no man has gone before", then *that* airlock makes much sense. :thumbsup:


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## Fernando Mureb (Nov 12, 2006)

RSN said:


> Looks like a lot of parts that could breakdown! The Robot on "Lost in Space" had the ability to seperate his treads and walk. That is how he was able to get up and down the stairs much faster than an elevator would. You put it out there, just my two cents!


Hi RSN
Let me desagree. Even making a poetical concession and the assumption that the Robot treads would fit on the stair steps (I mean the depth), no way it would have enough mobility to move itself from the platform over the footpad to the ground.


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

Fernando Mureb said:


> Hi RSN
> Let me desagree. Even making a poetical concession and the assumption that the Robot treads would fit on the stair steps (I mean the depth), no way it would have enough mobility to move itself from the platform over the footpad to the ground.


But I saw him do it on the show, we must accept that as "cannon"! Heck disagree all you want, it was just my opinion and observation from a show that is still loved, 45 years later, by both old and new fans! Everyone needs to lighten up, we sound like Star Trek geeks!


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

Robert Kinoshita designed the C57 with steps leading down only one landing gear. The other two had conveyor belts of some kind. The Fox blueprint for the bottom of the 48"/10' Jupiter 2 "clearly" (once you get it cleaned up enough to read it) labels two of the three landing gear as having "no steps". Since we never see those landing gear on the miniature, possibly they had some step alternative. Then there's also the Chariot ramp and the atomic engine elevator as alternate means of egress. 
Beautiful work! I like the design very much. Finally, a Jupiter 2 that makes sense. Good luck with this project!


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

starseeker said:


> Robert Kinoshita designed the C57 with steps leading down only one landing gear. The other two had conveyor belts of some kind. The Fox blueprint for the bottom of the 48"/10' Jupiter 2 "clearly" (once you get it cleaned up enough to read it) labels two of the three landing gear as having "no steps". Since we never see those landing gear on the miniature, possibly they had some step alternative. Then there's also the Chariot ramp and the atomic engine elevator as alternate means of egress.
> Beautiful work! I like the design very much. Finally, a Jupiter 2 that makes sense. Good luck with this project!


So much is written, you don't remember where you see it. I had heard the same about the C57-D leg design. I also remember reading somewhere that the model did indeed have steps on all 3 legs. I will check back through the Saucer Fleet book, that may be where I saw it. Also, if my memory isn't too messed up, I think there is a scene in the film where you see people walking down stars from the rear leg. The cargo belts would make sense. I have seen "fan" blueprints that have put cargo storage in two of the three legs on the Jupiter. This was never reflected onscreen, all three legs were seen with stairs, or on the studio blueprints or models.

OK, I wasn't crazy, made a screen cap. Some came down the rear leg, so at least 2 legs had stairs, despite what the designers called for!


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## moonbus01 (Jun 4, 2010)

It doesn't look like there are arm rails on the back leg. Maybe the dude was surfing down the cargo belt. Dock him some space pay!!


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

moonbus01 said:


> It doesn't look like there are arm rails on the back leg. Maybe the dude was surfing down the cargo belt. Dock him some space pay!!


I was thinking the same thing! When you watch it, the indication is he is walking down steps. Go figure, something in a movie does not make sense!


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

These were from the Profiles in History auction. The catalogue described two legs with conveyor belts. No, the full size sets don't ever seem to match the miniatures but at least we can get some idea of someone's intentions.


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## skinnyonce (Dec 17, 2009)

starseeker said:


> These were from the Profiles in History auction. The catalogue described two legs with conveyor belts. No, the full size sets don't ever seem to match the miniatures but at least we can get some idea of someone's intentions.


Even with the back legs being conveyor belts that is a mighty steep angle to use for cargo, I see alot of slippage up or down on that angle


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

starseeker said:


> These were from the Profiles in History auction. The catalogue described two legs with conveyor belts. No, the full size sets don't ever seem to match the miniatures but at least we can get some idea of someone's intentions.


Guess I was wrong about what I read about the miniature. As for the full size, as the photo I posted shows, the director clearly didn't care what the designer wanted, he wanted it to be stairs. As noted, there is no railing on the back leg and that matches the miniature.


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

starseeker said:


> Robert Kinoshita designed the C57 with steps leading down only one landing gear. The other two had conveyor belts of some kind. The Fox blueprint for the bottom of the 48"/10' Jupiter 2 "clearly" (once you get it cleaned up enough to read it) labels two of the three landing gear as having "no steps". Since we never see those landing gear on the miniature, possibly they had some step alternative. Then there's also the Chariot ramp and the atomic engine elevator as alternate means of egress.
> Beautiful work! I like the design very much. Finally, a Jupiter 2 that makes sense. Good luck with this project!


So why are there steps on the two forward legs of the Jupiter 2?


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

That is a puzzlement. In that shot, there are steps on the port landing gear leg. But all you can see on the stbd leg (where the steps are supposed to be) is the shadow pattern made by the holes in the sides of the legs. There's nothing that looks like it could be a step anywhere along the leg which is supposed to have the steps. Possibly they were re-assembled in the wrong locations at some point? Or possibly all the legs have steps and you just can't see them in the lousy photos we have. 
Also, the photo of the prop leg shows no signs of a step anywhere along its length. They could have been lost over time. 
I just don't know.


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

LOL!!! OK so I'll suggest looking at the clips of the J2 in the SPFX loops at the end of "Lost In Space Forever." You'll be able to see several attempted take-offs where the model raises up on it's gear and then lifts off and the gear retracts. You'll get a great look at the steps there.



I doctored the file by enlarging it, adjusting contrast and sharpness. You can see the front of the steps on both legs.


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

I see enhanced shadows, nothing that looks like a step on the stbd side. Tho' they could be there.
A couple screen grabs from Forever. They show steps on the stbd side, but nothing is visible on any of the other legs. What I'd like to see is a photo that actually shows steps on more than one leg. They may have been there. But getting that bottom blueprint where it says no steps here, no steps here, steps here, made we wonder if I'd ever seen steps on two gear at once. So far I still haven't. And the photo of the prop gear, you'd think that a trace of a step would be visible through one of the holes. But there aren't even any marks where a step might of been. And that Kinoshita put steps on only one leg of the C57. Just makes me wonder, is all. 
This particular old pony is pretty well massaged now, I think. Unless Gary Kerr has some photos he hasn't been telling us about.
Did find an interesting shot of the pod dropper. The pod doors are opposite the main viewport, it looks like, not under the proper upper deck hatch.


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

Good God! Is it REALLY that big a deal? Depending on what episode you watch, stairs were used on every leg or seen on every leg! In "The Derelict" they use the rear leg, as seen by the use of the opening below the crawl ladder (Yes I know, the Engine Room door was used in "Target Earth!), The shot of the full size mock up in "The Derelict" as well as "Visit to a Hostile Planet" shows steps on the leg below the main hatch, and "Ghost Planet" shows the stairs on the miniature.

Guess what? The blueprints were not followed by the builders of the sets or miniatures!!! It is called "Filming Requirements"! And yes the Pod bay doors were installed on the wrong side of center, they didn’t CARE!!

Why suck all the fun out of something by picking it apart so much? As I have said, that was what made "Lost in Space" fans better than Trekkies, we don't make it more than it was....A TV SHOW!


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

They did not use the rear leg on Derelict.


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

Y3a said:


> They did not use the rear leg on Derelict.


Then why did Will move the Robot away from the hole in the floor at the REAR of the ship, and why did John come up through it after blasting open the derelict's doors? It is called "implied"! The show was not that hard to follow, why do so many have such difficulty?


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## Gemini1999 (Sep 25, 2008)

RSN said:


> Then why did Will move the Robot away from the hole in the floor at the REAR of the ship, and why did John come up through it after blasting open the derelict's doors? It is called "implied"! The show was not that hard to follow, why do so many have such difficulty?



I would agree with that assessment. I think that the only problem was that the exterior scenes showed them exiting from the gear ladder undeneath the main hatch on the upper level. You can see the closed lower deck viewport lines in the shot.

Bryan


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

Gemini1999 said:


> I would agree with that assessment. I think that the only problem was that the exterior scenes showed them exiting from the gear ladder undeneath the main hatch on the upper level. You can see the closed lower deck viewport lines in the shot.
> 
> Bryan


True, but as I said, it is implied. It would have been too costly to reframe the scene from the rear, so when filming they substituted the leg nearest the camera they used for the establishing shot. That is how TV production works. They were not concerned about details that they figured would not be scrutinized 45 yerars later!


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## Gemini1999 (Sep 25, 2008)

RSN said:


> True, but as I said, it is implied. It would have been too costly to reframe the scene from the rear, so when filming they substituted the leg nearest the camera they used for the establishing shot. That is how TV production works. They were not concerned about details that they figured would not be scrutinized 45 yerars later!


Oh, believe me....I agree with you. I see fans continually trying to "make sense" of of things that don't. It's pretty nearly pointless when you're trying to reconcile ALL of the visual elements, scenes, disparities, etc.

I seriously doubt that any television show, then or now, would hold up to such scrutiny. Continuity errors happen all the time.

Bryan


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

Gemini1999 said:


> Oh, believe me....I agree with you. I see fans continually trying to "make sense" of of things that don't. It's pretty nearly pointless when you're trying to reconcile ALL of the visual elements, scenes, disparities, etc.
> 
> I seriously doubt that any television show, then or now, would hold up to such scrutiny. Continuity errors happen all the time.
> 
> Bryan


Thanks Bryan, I thought I was the only one who thought that way. 

Ron


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## Paulbo (Sep 16, 2004)

Gemini1999 said:


> Oh, believe me....I agree with you. I see fans continually trying to "make sense" of of things that don't. It's pretty nearly pointless when you're trying to reconcile ALL of the visual elements, scenes, disparities, etc.
> 
> I seriously doubt that any television show, then or now, would hold up to such scrutiny. Continuity errors happen all the time.
> 
> Bryan


But, but, what about the episodes where they're out on a planet and they've got 8 shadows cast by 8 sets of kleig lights? That MUST mean that they're on a planet circling 8 suns!


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## Gemini1999 (Sep 25, 2008)

Paulbo said:


> But, but, what about the episodes where they're out on a planet and they've got 8 shadows cast by 8 sets of kleig lights? That MUST mean that they're on a planet circling 8 suns!



That's your nightmare not mine....:freak:

I just accept the J2 for what it was ..."Tardis"-like qualities and all.

Bryan


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

So will goes down a hatch at the back of the 2nd deck and on the 3rd deck, walks over to the hatch for the starboard gear leg and then down the stairs.


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## Fernando Mureb (Nov 12, 2006)

What the third floor you're referring to? To the one that only appeared in one episode of season three? If Mr Allen would really cares to be consistent, should have used the corridor between the galley and the laboratory on that scene (in "The Derelict"). 

Unless the ladder could be extended through a door in the lower hull to permit an alternative outlet, such as a fire escapes ladder that you see on the buildings.

Indeed, I already saw a drawing showing something like that, but I can't remember where.

Just in case: I think it's because of all this confusion that Avian opened this thread "A Jupiter 2 that makes sense", wasn't?


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

At least it is consistent with the overall J2 layout as implied over all those hideous episodes. Sure I think it's BS. For me, a survivor of the 60's who saw every episode except #1 (had to help dad mow lawn!) The Derelict and the realistic landing and behavior of the Jupiter 2 hooked me. By the middle of year 2, I was wearing a paper bag over my head because it had gotten to be fantasy instead of adventure/action sci-fi. The paper mache frog head that never moved was the end of caring about the characters, I mostly watched for Jupiter 2 SPFX, or, well just about any SPFX. Year 3 was a little better, but at the end it sucked like a shop-vac! Talking carrots...... ?


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

Y3a said:


> At least it is consistent with the overall J2 layout as implied over all those hideous episodes. Sure I think it's BS. For me, a survivor of the 60's who saw every episode except #1 (had to help dad mow lawn!) The Derelict and the realistic landing and behavior of the Jupiter 2 hooked me. By the middle of year 2, I was wearing a paper bag over my head because it had gotten to be fantasy instead of adventure/action sci-fi. The paper mache frog head that never moved was the end of caring about the characters, I mostly watched for Jupiter 2 SPFX, or, well just about any SPFX. Year 3 was a little better, but at the end it sucked like a shop-vac! Talking carrots...... ?


Well there you go. A lot of us love the show, flaws and all! Even the most "hideous" episodes are more fun to watch than many of the more "technically accurate" sci-fi shows of the last few decades! To each his own, no one is right and no one is wrong, just personal preference.


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## Avian (Feb 16, 2010)

Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but I just thought I'd post some new images of additional "Lost in Space Universe (revised)" vehicles I've been working on.

In the original series, the J2 docked with a "Fuel Barge." Here, I wanted to re-imagine this station in light of the idea that the Jupiter colonization program would be gearing up for "ten million families per year" taking the voyage to Alpha Centauri.

Here, the Barge is mirrored and symmetric along the z-axis so it can accommodate two Jupiter-series ships at once. (*These are the 98' diameter "new" J2's.*) Like the show, the J2 docks with the barge without using the landing gear. Here, it is magnetically held in place by three cradles. A fuel umbilical rises from the center to connect to the fusion core.

This supply Barge is one justification for the existing location of the Jupiter's airlock. A jetway-styled umbilical (_spaceway?_) connects the Jupiter to the main tower of the barge. Multiple barges could be linked in a hexagonal array via the corner towers for larger fleet purposes. 



Three large Unitectic drives - one at each corner - allow maneuvering of the barge. They would normally be shut down once the barge reaches its designated position. So, technically, I guess it is no longer a "barge" but more of a fuel supply station.



I also imagined that the barge would be equipped with a couple of new-styled Space Pods like the Jupiter:









Uploaded with ImageShack.us


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## Avian (Feb 16, 2010)

Here, I created a "freighter" used in the Alpha Control shipyards. This is a more detailed revision of the freighter I created for my "Launch of the Jupiter 2" video on YouTube from a year ago.













Uploaded with ImageShack.us


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

Your creativity is remarkable!


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

I have to say that I *LOVED* this!!!

http://www.lostinspacethewebseries.com/apps/videos/videos/show/14486207-landing-geartests


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## Avian (Feb 16, 2010)

Thanks! I've just been playing with the potential of other vessels in a Lost In Space universe using design elements from the show. There is such a huge amount of Star Trek-inspired work out there but not really anything centered around the idea of an LIS backstory. I'd love to see other people's ideas as well!


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

FYI, the "F-12" fuel barge, as fans have named it, actually had other numbers and letters on each of the other 2 "drums" of the fuel station. The one on screen right for example is A-11 and has a blue and white checkerboard design on it, as opposed to the yellow and white stripes on the F-12 section. The screen left is a bit harder to make out, but it is different from the other two. It is kinda like how fans always represent the landing circle in "Ghost Planet" as having 3 solid yellow circles behind it, when in fact those circles are actually the number "115", as the instrictor told them, use pad 115. :thumbsup:


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Very nice! The only thing I'll say against the 98' J2 design, is that there's a LOT of wasted space in that windshield well!


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## WarpCore Breach (Apr 27, 2005)

Man, how did I MISS this thread?!? Major latecomer; really like the concepts and work. I think that the redesign not only managed to keep the profile of this iconic ship but also made a heck of a lot more sense in the layout! The original J2 interior was just too big for the intended size of the ship and the needed living area that required a second deck also should have required a major up-scaling of the Jupiter 2 itself.

I would have liked the '98 movie Jupiter 2 more if we could have seen more of it's layout. As it was, we only saw the command deck and some corridor with a few rooms on that ship.


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## Avian (Feb 16, 2010)

John P said:


> Very nice! The only thing I'll say against the 98' J2 design, is that there's a LOT of wasted space in that windshield well!


 Yup, that was a concession to the idea that we were going to build a real, practical set of the flight deck for the actors. A viewport flush with the exterior would have created a 30' wide expanse of glass and a very expensive set. That said, now that we are using digital sets, we might revisit the flight deck design and push the viewport outboard quite a bit more!


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## Chuck Eds (Jul 20, 2009)

Awesome work, as usual, updating the existing design features works really well! I have to admit that I'm on the fence about the expanded JII design. It's great and it shows lots of creativity & imagination, but on the other hand I guess I'm among the people who've come to accept the original design, inconsistancies & all!

Instead of having the viewport recessed so far in, how about expanding the flighdeck outwards & keeping the original viewport size?

Here's my original design of the "Haunted Lighthouse" USAF Weather Station/ Lightship. Built about 10 years ago, in scale with the PL JII.


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## steviesteve (Apr 27, 2009)

Nice work Chuck!

Your haunted lighthouse has the look and feel of LIS spacecraft. I especially like the fact you had two landing pads for space colonists!


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