# Reissueing of PL models



## abacero (Oct 24, 2005)

Hi, everybody!

I just joined Hobbytalk and I wish to keep active as much as possible.

:wave: 

Ok. Going to business. I was very pleased that Polar Lights issued such great models like the Jupiter 2 (that I am working on it now), the C57D Starcruiser or the Star Trek Enterprise 1/350.

Since these models had a very short life in market, now they are very hot commodities on the auction website and you can spend even hudreds of dollars to catch one of them.

But the great thing is to have one from the source. I hope that other modelist, like me, posted to PL asking to reissue some of these great kits, some of them like the J-2 or the C57D, long awaited for Sci-Fi fans.

To give you some "excuses" to make a "special edition" of any of them coukld be: the Lost in Space 40th. Anniversary, Some limited editions with any special feature, etc.

I am sure that these reissues will be away in a matter of short time. At least you will have a customer on me! :thumbsup: 

Thank you for let me talk (or write) about this.

Alberto


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## phrankenstign (Nov 29, 1999)

*Welcome to the PLBB at HobbyTalk!!!*

You have some good ideas. Maybe RC2, Polar Lights parent company, may do that someday. All we can do is to keep our fingers crossed and our wallets ready if it happens.


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## AFILMDUDE (Nov 27, 2000)

I wish RC2 would re-issue PL's re-issues of Aurora's Universal monsters - but I'm not holding my breath. Welcome aboard Alberto! :wave:


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## the Dabbler (Feb 17, 2005)

Welcome Aberto :wave: 
Most folks on here think Polar Lights is just a pleasant memory. I'd like to see some more figure kits myself, but it isn't likely.
Dabbler


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## NickTurner (Oct 19, 2005)

does anyone know how much longer the NX 01 and The 1/350 refit are likely to be around?


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## ChrisW (Jan 1, 1970)

Afilmdude - since the Universal monsters were actually from Revell/Monogram's tooling, don't expect to see them in a PL box - my best best is a reissue every few years in new boxes, probably exclusives like we've seen in the past...

NickT - again, just my guess, but unless RC2 sees some kind of upturn in orders, figure that both of those kits are limited to what's on hand at the distributors. John P has comments that after a very brisk start, the NX-01 has been languishing on the store shelves at Hiway Hobby. Don't know how the 1/350 refit is doing, but its size surely limits its purchase to hard core trek modelling fans who have already purchased their "grail" kit...

Again, just my opinion, and I could be wrong!


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## beck (Oct 22, 2003)

welcome aboard Alberto . always good to have new members . 
let's keep our fingers crossed that RC2 will reissue some of the PL line as time goes by . 
i agreee Chris , RM usually reissues the old guys every 5 -10 yrs . maybe they'll get smart and redo the MoM creature one day . 
hb


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## Zorro (Jun 22, 1999)

ChrisW said:


> Afilmdude - since the Universal monsters were actually from Revell/Monogram's tooling, don't expect to see them in a PL box - my best best is a reissue every few years in new boxes, probably exclusives like we've seen in the past...


Chris - purely out of curiosity, why couldn't RM reproduce the original Aurora box-art just like PL did? I'm betting they would have sold a heck of a lot more Batmans, Supermans, and Robins if they had. And they _did_ use the original (Mingo?) art on the Alfred E. Nueman re-pop - not that _that_ one sold too well. I would think original art on any of the monster re-pops would pretty much double the sales figures.


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## A Taylor (Jan 1, 1970)

Here's why RM will never produce the Monsters in Original art boxes with the Aurora logo:
Andrew Eisenberg and Tom Lowe.
Not that it's their fault, but Eisenberg owns the rights to the Aurora oval logo, and the re-issue boxes were copyrighted Playing Mantis/Cinemodels (Eisenberg's "company"). That means if anyone wants to use those boxes again for the life of the copyright, they have to pay Playing Mantis (now RC2) and Cinemodels a licensing fee.
And Revell is almost assuredly NOT going to do that, when they have box art for those kits that they own outright.
AT


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## Zorro (Jun 22, 1999)

A Taylor said:


> Here's why RM will never produce the Monsters in Original art boxes with the Aurora logo:
> Andrew Eisenberg and Tom Lowe.
> Not that it's their fault, but Eisenberg owns the rights to the Aurora oval logo, and the re-issue boxes were copyrighted Playing Mantis/Cinemodels (Eisenberg's "company"). That means if anyone wants to use those boxes again for the life of the copyright, they have to pay Playing Mantis (now RC2) and Cinemodels a licensing fee.
> And Revell is almost assuredly NOT going to do that, when they have box art for those kits that they own outright.
> AT


What about the original art _without_ the Aurora logo?


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## ChrisW (Jan 1, 1970)

Kind of tag-teaming here with AT - as he said, PM/PL copyrighted the box art - even though Universal owms the unique characteristics to the cinematic figures, that particular design is now owned by RC2...


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## The Batman (Mar 21, 2000)

Ohhhh.....

I think most of us ( Scott and myself included ) were under the impression that PL/PM merely licensed the Aurora Logo for a 3 year period. I guess we kind of assumed that the box _art_, since it had been around since the '60's, was more or less in the public domain. Now we know differently.

- GJS


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## Zorro (Jun 22, 1999)

Thanks for clearing that up. It's now as clear as an asure sky of deepest summer.


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## Zorro (Jun 22, 1999)

Still don't understand why R/M didn't get a clue and issue the DC Superheroes with original box-art.


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## The Batman (Mar 21, 2000)

Zorro said:


> Still don't understand why R/M didn't get a clue and issue the DC Superheroes with original box-art.


I'm with you there, Scott.

- GJS

They also shouldn't have advertised on the box that the kits themselves were 'as they were originally issued' when that was blatantly false.


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## PRE-SCENES 2 (Aug 16, 2005)

My guess is that there are so many competitors in the modeling industry that I'm afraid that PL, Aurora and such are all but extinct, as far as figure type kits go! What I mean is that the GARAGE KITS are in an upswing with sculptors of all kinds doing more of a detailed kit than what we've seen PL and Aurora have done. They were limited in what the could do, were as the garage kit sculptor has more freedom with such. And people love more detail!!! I'm sure that the Monogram/Revell types that do the 'technical' type of models will be around for awhile longer. .


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## phrankenstign (Nov 29, 1999)

Zorro said:


> Thanks for clearing that up. It's now _*as clear as an asure sky of deepest summer*_.


 That's a great quote from my favorite movie of all time.....

...okay....maybe it's tied with Frankenstein (1931)!



PS I believe the word you intended to use was "azure"!


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## Zorro (Jun 22, 1999)

phrankenstign said:


> PS I believe the word you intended to use was "azure"!


 
Right Right! Appy Poli Logies.


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## CaptFrank (Jan 29, 2005)

Does box art really matter?

Yes, I know good box art can draw in customers who might 
not have bought the kit in the first place.

I'm thinking about the re-issue issue. 

We all know what the kit is, and we plan to buy it.

What difference does it make what logo is on the box, or 
what artwork is used?

I don't buy a kit for the box. I buy the kit to have a model 
to build.

I use the box to spray paint on.

I would buy the 1:350 NCC-1701-A if it was in a blank, 
white box with black letters for the name.


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## CaptFrank (Jan 29, 2005)

*ZORRO*,



> Appy Poli Logies.


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## Zorro (Jun 22, 1999)

CaptFrank said:


> Does box art really matter?


With Aurora re-issues? The answer is yes. Polar Lights' initial success was all about nostalgia and faithfully recreating what made those Aurora kits so appealing in the first place. For many of us Aurora's box-art was "the hook" that got us interested in building those (figure) kits when we were kids. Polar Lights "got" this and built their success by understanding that the box-art was an _essential_ element of Aurora's appeal. I feel confident in saying that you never would have gotten a Polar Lights 1:350 NCC-1701-A if Polar Lights hadn't first marketed those repops _correctly _- i.e. - with the original Aurora box-art.


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## Zorro (Jun 22, 1999)

CaptFrank said:


> *ZORRO*,
> 
> Appy Poli Logies.


 
It's a quote from the movie _A Clockwork Orange._


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## the Dabbler (Feb 17, 2005)

I think Zorro got it right. "Nostalgia" (as opposed to neuralgia ? ) would 'catch' the older modelers, BUT impressive-inticing box art may bring some sorely needed NEW blood into the hiobby. I know, since you can't open the boxes in the store, box art inlfuences my decision to buy, and many others to be sure. ( And of course there were times we were disapointed )


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## ChrisW (Jan 1, 1970)

Old-timers wil remember when the "Monster Customizing Kits" were reintroduced by PL, the design firm put large blue blocks behind the titles so they would "read" better". Well, folks were in an uproar, relatively speaking, to the point where Tom Lowe himself said on this board that if they sold through the first shipment, the new boxes would be faithful to the originals. As we all know, the customizing kits tanked, so it never came to fruition...
There were alot of newcomers to the board when the Universal Monster reissues were sold with the original box art and Aurora logo - folks who remembered the original releases and were compelled to buy them again pretty much because of the nostalgia appeal.


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## Cro-Magnon Man (Jun 11, 2001)

Well said Chris, and when Revell reissued the Monsters of the Movies Frankenstien and Dracula kits in 1999, there was actually a long on-going discussion on another Aurora-related site as to whether modellers should buy them, because the kits didn't match the originals. Members of that site were apparently so disappointed that Revell had not reissued the kits in the original plastic colour or with the identical Aurora boxart, that there was talk of boycotting the kits until Revell issued exact reproductions in the future.

Personally, I thought that any reissue of those kits from the original molds was fine, but someone went so far as to say that 'nostalgia tells me to leave them on the shelf', or something similar. Clever. No wonder Revell didn't do any more reissues after 1999.


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## ost15jr (Apr 4, 2002)

RC2 COULD, however, reissue any of the figures that were reverse engineered by PL, couldn't they? And since PM/PL owns the copyright to the art without the logo, they could reissue these in original boxes with PL logos (perhaps in Square Box Glows In The Dark format with re-engineered PL logo to match Aurora's big 'A' logo from the 70's).

So we COULD have reissues of:
The Bride
Hunchback (hopefully AS Hunchback, not Bellringer)
Witch
Forgotten Prisoner
Plus all the Monster Rods, Addams Family House, Munsters, Guillotine, Ghidorah, Rodan, etc etc


Please tell me RC2 is intelligent enough to hold onto all of PL's molds.

Speaking of which, is The Go Cart mold still in existence? Maybe sometime down the line Toho could be talked into allowing repops of this kit (seeing as Universal didn't have problems with IT'S monsters being caricatured)
:dude:


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## XactoHazzard (May 20, 2003)

Hey CaptFrank... Could I have your boxes with the Aurora Art on them? Thanks 
I need Drac, Frank, Wolfman and Mummy Also nead the Cinemodels Aurora Phantom Box.

Travis


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## beck (Oct 22, 2003)

let's not forget how many car kits PL put out . i think we're more likely to see them re released than anything . 
hb


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## JamesDFarrow (Sep 18, 1999)

beck said:


> let's not forget how many car kits PL put out . i think we're more likely to see them re released than anything .
> hb


PL made cars!

James


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## phrankenstign (Nov 29, 1999)

PL made cars?


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## El Gato (Jul 15, 2000)

RC2 makes cars?

Welcome to the boards Alberto! :wave:

Until RC2 figures out they could make a profit by diversifying their product line (in other words, stop thinking NASCAR, NASCAR, NASCAR), my opinion is that we won't see the great PL models from the recent past.

José


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## CaptFrank (Jan 29, 2005)

> Hey CaptFrank... Could I have your boxes with the Aurora Art on them? Thanks
> I need Drac, Frank, Wolfman and Mummy Also nead the Cinemodels Aurora Phantom Box.
> 
> Travis


  Um...

Sorry, I use the boxes to spray paint parts. By the time I'm done,
the boxes are covered in paint. Then I throw them away.


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## Zorro (Jun 22, 1999)

Just to continue the discussion of the importance of Aurora box-art, I have seen empty Gigantic Frankenstein boxes in only _fair_ shape go for close to $500. I've seen empty Superman and Zorro boxes go for over $100. There is a garage company that specializes _specifically_ in Aurora re-pro boxes. And when the PL longbox monster re-issues came out, I'm sure many Aurora collectors on a budget who had already acquired those kits as built-ups purchased the re-issues specifically so they could display the boxes along with the built-ups. It's rare to see a really good Aurora collection without the boxes displayed right next to the kits. I myself have probably spent a couple of hundred dollars on the internet purchasing good Aurora boxes to go along with previously purchased built-ups.


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## buzzconroy (Jun 28, 2002)

i will be selling some original aurora boxes soon, hercules and the loin,Zorro,Spartacus,Gladiator,the frog and the apache warrior in the near future, thinning out my junk....lol
buzz

each box will include instructions.


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## Zathros (Dec 21, 2000)

ost15jr said:


> Speaking of which, is The Go Cart mold still in existence? Maybe sometime down the line Toho could be talked into allowing repops of this kit (seeing as Universal didn't have problems with IT'S monsters being caricatured)
> :dude:


When I spoke to Tom Lowe in 1999, He told me that ToHo wanted that Mold
destroyed, because they didnt want thier Franchise depicted "In a silly
manner"..I doubt if They would allow ANY company to repop that 
kit again, since according to Tom, Godzilla is like a RELIGION to them..
At that time, Tom Said he was thinking of altering the mold into
something else...Whether he did that or flat out destroyed the mold,
would be anyones guess..


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## Brent Gair (Jun 26, 1999)

Zathros said:


> they didnt want thier Franchise depicted "In a silly
> manner"...


I can certainly understand their position.

After all, a guy in a big rubber suit is pretty serious stuff.


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## Zathros (Dec 21, 2000)

Brent Gair said:


> I can certainly understand their position.
> 
> After all, a guy in a big rubber suit is pretty serious stuff.


Of course..ESPECIALLY when in some cases in some of those movies, its OBVIOUS that its a man in a CHEAP monster suit...Anyway, I think
Tom Lowe had to certify to them that the mold was destroyed
or at least altered into something that had NO resemblence to the Go Cart..
The one that might know that part of the story would probably be Dave Metzner..


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## beck (Oct 22, 2003)

they don't want Godzilla portrayed in a silly manner !??!!?? 
do these Toho folks even WATCH their own movies ??
that just cracks me up every time i hear it . 
hb


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## ost15jr (Apr 4, 2002)

That's just so ridickerous it's beyond words!

Someone needs to put the 'Ho ho' back in 'Toho'. Get a sense of humour, little guys!
:dude:


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## abacero (Oct 24, 2005)

Besides all the interest in figures, I was thinking more on ships and vessels created or recovered by Polar Lights, such as the Land of the Gigant's Spindrift or the VBS Seaview, or the creation of the Forbidden Planet ship (I read it was H-U-G-E) or the Jupiter 2. Or even create new models only in resin before, such as the movie's Nautilus or the Alien's Nostromo (take note, RC2 guys!!) or any other ships that could bring new customers or retake old ones to your market. Also consider Thunderbirds (the Gerry Anderson's original version-I know the legal pepole on RC2 can manage the licensing stuff!).

Just some ideas.

Regards,

Alberto


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## beck (Oct 22, 2003)

those are great ideas . it's been discussed here about the Nautilus . and i think each and every one of us members would buy one of those for sure !! 
also a large scale VTBOTS Seaview . 
the Nostromo would be a really neat subject . i think it's only been done once (by Horizon) and is very tough to come by . 
hb


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## PRE-SCENES 2 (Aug 16, 2005)

That would be too cool if the MOTM and Monster Scenes would be re-released again. I wasn't into them until I saw them redone on The Parts Pit. They have a couple of New figure scenes to add to the series as well as the originals repopped as resin! :thumbsup:


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## Dave Metzner (Jan 1, 1970)

For those of you that continue to believe that RC-2 has a NASCAR fixation I'd recommend a visit to Hobby Heaven at www.modelcarkits.com.
Go thru the listing of kits currently available and count NASCAR vs. everything else.
I think that you'll see that NASCAR is a SMALL slice of RC-2's car kit pie.

Nobody that makes plastic car kits relies very heavily on NASCAR product as a large segment of their total model car line.
Also you need to understand that the NASCAR kits of each manufacturer all share the same rolling chassis - only bodies some engine parts decal sheets and packaging change from one kit to the next. Also understand that the chassis stays the same for several years! Bodies only change every three or four years.
Production costs for these kits are actually quite reasonable! 

SO NASCAR kits ARE profitable even though they are not a big segment of the overall model car lines for either RC-2 or Revell!


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## beck (Oct 22, 2003)

hey Dave , didn't PL put out a couple of the classic stock cars ? like Richard Petty's car etc. ( did they even call it Nascar back in those days ? ) 
those and the funny cars are some i wish i had picked up when i had the chance .
maybe RC2 will reissue those someday . 
hb


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## Dave Hussey (Nov 20, 1998)

One thing I keep saying is that sci-fi modelers recognize that they are a niche market generally and are thus generally willing to pay more for their favorite subjects. Just look at some of the resin success stories out there. I think RC2 is missing a golden opportunity if it believes that a styrene Proteus or Disney Nautilus must be priced around the same as its current line of product.

If you do the math considering production costs and market demand for kits like that to arrive at the required selling price needed for RC2 to get its needed profit (and businesses exist to make a profit), they may just find that the price point is one folks like me would accept.

Huzz


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## DinoMike (Jan 1, 1970)

What boggles me about the Disney Nautilus is that Disney would want a supply of them for their theme park gift shops & Disney stores, so there's a whole chunk of sales right off the bat....


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## john guard (Dec 31, 2001)

why did RC2 aquire Playing Mantis is they dont intend to do *^&@*$#&@#*_ with it ??????????????????????


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## TAY666 (Jan 8, 2000)

john guard said:


> why did RC2 aquire Playing Mantis is they dont intend to do *^&@*$#&@#*_ with it ??????????????????????


They are doing stuff with lines from Playing Mantis.
Just not stuff from Polar Lights.

I'm sure they were more interested in the JL lines.


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## CaptFrank (Jan 29, 2005)

> Why did RC2 aquire Playing Mantis if they don't intend to do *^&@*$#&@#*_ with it ??????????????????????


Many threads on this buyout topic have had the answer.

RC2 wanted the die-cast Johnny Lightning line.

Playing Mantis was RC2's free gift with purchase.

They didn't really want it, but now that they have it, RC2 has 
to figure out what to do with it. 

RC2 is a very large company. I think they have to find the 
staff to assume responsibility for the brand, and product lines.
Then start producing. Like assembling a team to take over. This 
will take time.

How long did it take for Polar Lights to produce the Refit? From concept to final product sitting on the shelves? And that was with the gang already working.

Once RC2 assigns the various Playing Mantis brands to someone, they'll be back in business either re-popping, or issuing new kits. (With a great big "*RC2*" next to the logo.)


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## beck (Oct 22, 2003)

wouldn't that be wierd ! seeing an RC2 Phantom of the Opera ? lol( not that there'd be anything wrong with that .) 
hb


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## ChrisW (Jan 1, 1970)

...or they may just decide that the Polar Lights assets don't fit into their marketing plan and sell them off to an interested party...


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## Dave Hussey (Nov 20, 1998)

Indeed!

It does seem odd for a corporation such as RC2 to sit on a valuable asset like the Polar Lights brand and leave it unused when it could be sold and converted to cash. And especially if it would not compete with RC2's main product line.

Let's hope they come to the same conclusion and sell it to someone _interested_. Then we'll all have a _party_!

Huzz


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## Dave Metzner (Jan 1, 1970)

I'll make a wager that the assets of Polar Light will not be sold off by RC-2
They have no desire to start a competitor in the Plastic kit business.

Dave


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## TAY666 (Jan 8, 2000)

Dave Metzner said:


> I'll make a wager that the assets of Polar Light will not be sold off by RC-2
> They have no desire to start a competitor in the Plastic kit business.
> 
> Dave


You are probably right.
It doesn't cost them that much to sit on the molds. They just have to pay storage and taxes on them. For a company their size it is probably an insignificant amount.
There would be no sense in selling off the line. Especially since in about 5-10 years it will probably be worthwhile to reissue a few of them.


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## Dave Hussey (Nov 20, 1998)

????

It apears to me that RC2 really has no interest at all in the sci fi / figure / horror / fantasy model kit market. As others have stated here, it looks like RC2 bought Polar Lights because it came included in the same package as Johnny Lightning. Based on what we have seen I believe that it is reasonable to conclude that after this current run of kits, that will be it.

So, its my view that it would be a bad business decision for RC2 to sit on an asset that it will never use and could never compete with its core product lines if divested.

Huzz


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## Cro-Magnon Man (Jun 11, 2001)

No interst in Sci-fi/figure/horror? Don't be too sure. They'll definitely have an interst if they can see a profit in it, especially if they can see a profit in re-issues of kits for which the molds are already in their possession. Like TAY666 says above, they may just be biding their time, or like Capt. Frank says, they may not yet have got round to putting a department together.


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## Dave Hussey (Nov 20, 1998)

Cro - I hope you are right.  I just think its dumb for these things to gather dust and never see the light of day again.

Huzz


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## TAY666 (Jan 8, 2000)

Dave Hussey said:


> Cro - I hope you are right. I just think its dumb for these things to gather dust and never see the light of day again.
> 
> Huzz


Hell, I've heard tell of some Aurora kits that Revell are still sitting on and have never re-popped.


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## PRE-SCENES 2 (Aug 16, 2005)

I think that the "magic" Aurora had with their success was not only the box art but the coloring of the plastic kits inside. I believe that if they are repopped, _Color_ should be a factor as well as the box art in the mix. Coloring the plastic wouldn't be that much more expensive, would it?
Gray, Ivory and Puke doesn't really do it!


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## Dave Metzner (Jan 1, 1970)

If there are any Polar Lights figure kits that you want or need..........
You better find them and buy them now. 
Most should still be easy to find and reasonable in cost now........if you wait they will become more rare and more expensive!

I'm VERY sure it will be a VERY long time before any of them are re-issued.
RC-2 and AMT / MPC before them never had noticable success with figure kits. 
I can't imagine that RC-2 will re-issue any figure kits. I also doubt that they will divest themselves of any Polar Lights assets.

For those of you who think you know better than RC-2 how to make use of the former Polar Lights assets, and want to offer advice here, please stop wasting your time, you will not change their plans by posting your complaints or suggestions here.

Dave


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## AFILMDUDE (Nov 27, 2000)

Unfotunately I think Dave is probably right. That's why my closet is currently bulging at the seams with horded Polar Lights kits.


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## Zorro (Jun 22, 1999)

Mine too. A lot of them are still out there if you know where to look.


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## CaptFrank (Jan 29, 2005)

> A lot of them are still out there if you know where to look.


"*The Styrene is Out There*."

Hmmm...

Sounds like a creepy tv show.


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## beck (Oct 22, 2003)

I've seen IT .i tell ya and it .... it wants me .... to buy IT !!!! 
hb


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