# Toro 20610C 4cycle no start



## Hexar (May 24, 2009)

Hi Guys,
First post here.  I was given this Toro Lawn Mower 20610C with a 164cc 4 cycle motor. It would not start. I clean the carb, clean the fuel line, and fuel tank (LOTS of gunk there), and checked there is spark and there is compression (some what... I felt pressure at the spark plug hole when I hold my thumb there while cranking the motor).

Sometimes, after I prime it a couple of times using the primer bulb, it seems wants to start, and gives this dark cloud of gas out from the carb (I left the air in take not , just to see if gas can be "injected" when I prime it).

What can be the problem and how to fix this?

Thanks!


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## Djz020 (May 23, 2009)

first of all, what did you clean your carb with? ..we are taught these days Not to use carb cleaner products. we use short blasts of air with high-power guns. the carb products attract dust and other harmful particles. so..you said you cleaned the fuel lines(so obviously, theres no leaks or holes!) did you replace the fuel filter? and, check to see if the mufflers clogged?!? ..while the muffler is off, check to see how your piston looks, if it has a bunch of scrapes on it, you should check a couple other things first! and if all else fails, refer to your local mechanic and have them rebuild your carb, that is 90% of the time the problem anyway!!


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## Hexar (May 24, 2009)

Thanks Djz020, lots of great suggestions.
1. I cleaned the carb with intake cleaner and brake cleaner. 
2. there is no leak in the fuel lines, the rubber looks really new and soft, not cracked or brittle.
3. There is no fuel filter that I can see, it is probably in the tank?
4. The muffler is not clogged, I took it off and it is really "clean", I can see through it.
5. The piston looks ugly. lots of carbon built up, I really did not want to take the head off... this would be my last resort.

The funny thing is: sometimes it puffs with a black smoke, but out from the carb side. What is that?

Thanks again,


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## 30yearTech (Sep 14, 2006)

Djz020 said:


> first of all, what did you clean your carb with? ..we are taught these days Not to use carb cleaner products. we use short blasts of air with high-power guns. the carb products attract dust and other harmful particles. so..you said you cleaned the fuel lines(so obviously, theres no leaks or holes!) did you replace the fuel filter? and, check to see if the mufflers clogged?!? ..while the muffler is off, check to see how your piston looks, if it has a bunch of scrapes on it, you should check a couple other things first! and if all else fails, refer to your local mechanic and have them rebuild your carb, that is 90% of the time the problem anyway!!


DJz, I am sure you are trying to be helpful and I hate to blast anyone's advise, but you are way off base with regards as to cleaning a carburetor. You cannot not clean a carburetor that is gummed or vanished with air only. NO WAY NO HOW, I am sure your way is much more environmentally friendly, but if the carburetor is dirty, IT WON'T WORK. Spray cleaners will not cause any issues with the carburetor, if used properly. 

Your method is going to require complete carburetor replacement, you can't fix a carburetor by wiping it down and blowing on it!

Unless you have X-Ray vision, you can't see the piston looking through the exhaust port of a 4-cycle engine, so that's not gonna work either.

Hexar,

There is a little plastic spacer that goes up in the nozzle area just above the float bowl nut. When you cleaned out your carburetor, did you make sure this was put back. Many times these fall out when the float bowl is removed and never put back. The engine on your mower is also prone to wear on the exhaust valve seat, causing a loss of compression, that will affect starting. 

It may be necessary to remove the head and inspect the exhaust valve for burning or pitting in the seat area.


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## Hexar (May 24, 2009)

30yearTech
Thanks a lot for the reply! 

You are absolutely right, that plastic spacer (#27 in your part list .pdf file) is not there in the carb above the float bowl nut.  I guess either me or the person who repaired it before lost it (mostly likely it is me )

What does it do? Can I find it in other mower's carb?

The other thing is, I guess, I will have to take the head off.

Thanks again!


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## Hexar (May 24, 2009)

found the plastic spacer (#27 in the diagram), installed the carb, still no go. I guess I will have to take the head off. 

30yearTech, do you have a pdf digram of the motor, if it is not too much trouble, could you please post it if you have it?

Thanks a lot!


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## 30yearTech (Sep 14, 2006)

You can see a complete illustrated parts list for both the engine and your mower at the Toro parts look up site, all you need is your model number. Another thing to check is the flywheel key, make sure it's not sheared as this can through off the ignition timing.

https://lookup3.toro.com/partdex/index.cfm?xCaller=Toro


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## geogrubb (Jul 28, 2006)

Djz020 said:


> first of all, what did you clean your carb with? ..we are taught these days Not to use carb cleaner products. we use short blasts of air with high-power guns. the carb products attract dust and other harmful particles. so..you said you cleaned the fuel lines(so obviously, theres no leaks or holes!) did you replace the fuel filter? and, check to see if the mufflers clogged?!? ..while the muffler is off, check to see how your piston looks, if it has a bunch of scrapes on it, you should check a couple other things first! and if all else fails, refer to your local mechanic and have them rebuild your carb, that is 90% of the time the problem anyway!!


Djz020;
I am not one to question another mechanic's methods, however I have read your posts on both the 2-cycle and 4-cycle side of this forum and other than comments your suggestions have been limited, the object of the forum is to help people fix problems and not, if possible, create confusion. Your above post applies mostly to 2-cycle engines and not 4-cycle. the engine mentioned has but one fuel line, no fuel filter, the muffler will not clog and the piston can look like junk as long as compression is above 60lb. I would like to meet the instructors of your "we are taught" comment, since I have seen a lot more carbs destroyed by high pressure than brake parts cleaner many, many times. OH, Have a good one. Geo


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## geogrubb (Jul 28, 2006)

Hexar;
I am not sure if your carb has the same main jet but a lot of times the bowl nut may have from 0 to 4 holes and the one that usually creates the most problems is a very tiny one a the edge of the upper threads, chech the pic for an example. Have a good one. Geo


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## Hexar (May 24, 2009)

Thanks again 30YearTech, I will check out the toro site, this past week has been very busy for me.

geogrubb,
Thanks for the advice, I checked with that "screw" (the bowl nut at the bottom of the carb bowl) the first thing I got the mower,  there is a small hole on the side of the bowl nut, and I clean/cleared it by using a small paint brush hair, and by looking at it, the hole is smaller than the upper hole in your picture. 

So I guess the carb is working (somewhat), I guess the problem may be at the head/cylinder or the flywheel key that 30YearTech pointed out. 

I will try to get the head off, when I find a time... 

thanks again guys! I appreciate the helps.


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