# 18" TOS model. Don't mock me!



## Jabbs (Oct 14, 2003)

*18" TOS model. FINISHED W/Photos! See pg 3-end*

This is the start of an old thread so the best stuff is towards the end. Pictures added 01-02-01 Thanks for looking

(the following was posted over a year ago so if you want to add to the suggestions, pleaes do but for the most part, most of the questions I asked, I have found solutions for thanks to the gyts on this site)

If you want the long question, keep reading, if not and you have a lead on clear nacelle parts for the 18" TOS model please let me know. I can't find any besides the bridge parts. I used polished transparent stone halves for both the bridge dome and the lower sensor. They look cool lit. PICTURES ON NEXT PAGE
As an X-mas gift for my Mom the fan, I bought three more 18" models off <a href=http://www.dpbolvw.net/click-1606754-2202639 target=_blank>eBay</a><img src=http://www.awltovhc.com/image-1606754-2202639 width=1 height=1 border=0> for practice. I think I got them for $10.00-20.00 shipped. I picked up electronics for lighting and sound effects, a base will be made with acrylic and wood and I even have mini-slides from the T.V. series to be backlit and go inside the ship so she can see the crew in a few of the windows.
I went to CultTVman's site first and to many more since. I have over a hundred ref. photos of all the models used for the show along with all the restorations done to each not to mention a few stills from the show. I was beyond confused as to how to make the model look anything like the TOS version (the one of many) I grew up on and she loved. I began to just cut and sand and drill (It's going to be lit well) I'm even watching Sci-fi channel and still learning about the look of the enterprise. For instance, I watched an episode tonight where the three lights that are centered in front of the saucer were shown, only the center of them was blinking white and the outer ones were black. I almost had a mental breakdown.
I soon figured as this was the first model I have ever put together, that I would need some practice. Like I said before, I picked up three more and have made each one just a little different. Some with tons of detail and others with just enough. One is looking just TOS enough to be her X-mas gift.
I'm now at the point where I need to paint them and finding the "Right" color is killing me. Nothing looks right. Even if I get that down, I then have to figure out how to mask off the windows/strobes/running lights and domes. Sure tape might do it or even a latex. But I'm not using fiber optics very much. The windows are a combination of clear glue and resins. Some will be pinstripe tape cut down to size.

Here's my question. I paint the parts, sand the joints, glue them together and then sand the seams. How long can I leave the masking on and which is best and why, before it messes with the surface of the places masked? I still need to weather them so it'll be on for a while while I de-seam the models.

DOn't tell me to get the 22" model. I have one but won't touch it till I get the basics down on these five. One will be done in a disco style with electronicsand glow-in-the-dark paint to match, lights flashing to the music and the like. I'll try to make it look TOS during the day but more funky when the lights go out.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Jabbs said:


> . . . How long can I leave the masking on and which is best and why, before it messes with the surface of the places masked? I still need to weather them so it'll be on for a while while I de-seam the models.


Personally, I like the 18" model for a lot of reasons despite its inaccuracies. I think it can look pretty good if fixed up just right.

As to the masking question, it depends on what type you're using -- tape, liquid, foil, etc.


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## Ziz (Feb 22, 1999)

Unless you're doing multiple paint applications on the same mask line, you don't want to leave the mask on any longer than is absolutely necessary. An hour or so is about right. That's usually just enough time for the paint to set up.

Also, when you're pulling the tape off, fold it back 180* on itself so it's flat against the model and work slowly. That will minimize the amount of "pull" on the paint underneath.


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## Jabbs (Oct 14, 2003)

*masking*

So do I then need to mask for each time I apply a coat of paint? Again when I weather the models?

I agree, the model has a redeeming quality, (18") Not a majestic one but something that can be made beter with a little help. The 22" everyone praises, to me in my humble world is just as bad or worse because it tries to be better. I say Ertl failed on both however they're good enough for the girls I date.


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## Jabbs (Oct 14, 2003)

Perfessercoffee, what foil? I never heard of foil before.


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## Ziz (Feb 22, 1999)

Jabbs said:


> So do I then need to mask for each time I apply a coat of paint? Again when I weather the models?
> 
> I agree, the model has a redeeming quality, (18") Not a majestic one but something that can be made beter with a little help. The 22" everyone praises, to me in my humble world is just as bad or worse because it tries to be better. I say Ertl failed on both however they're good enough for the girls I date.


No, if you need the same mask line for more than one color _on the same side of the line_, not on the opposite side of the mask line, then leave the masking tape on until you've finished all your painting of the necessary colors. It's easier than trying to re-mask. But even at that, don't let the model sit for weeks between paint applications...a day or so tops.

Point being, plan your masking so you don't have to keep covering the same area over and over, and do it quickly - put the mask on, do your painting, get the mask off. Don't let it sit for a long time with the mask stuck to the model.


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## Jabbs (Oct 14, 2003)

Thanks, I'll give it a shot on the first one and if I run into problems I'm sure you guys can save me on the next.
Am I correct in thinking that "Foil" is the same stuff as I wrap my chicken dinner left-overs in?

Has anyone lit the polar lights model? It's the last one I bought and isn't here yet. I heard good things and saw the one done by Thomas models but it wasn't lit.


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## fokkerpilot (Jul 22, 2002)

Jabbs: I sent you an e-mail. :wave: 

Jack


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## Barry Yoner (Mar 6, 1999)

I _love_ those 18" ships!!

In spite of all their problems....!

I've put electronics into one- actually a Scout variant. Worked pretty good until it fell apart. I guess my epoxy mix was wrong, ultimately.... 

I have electronics planned for 2 more of the 18" ships. Both have had internal modifications done to varying degrees but need to find more .040 fiber optic as I only have enough for one ship right now.

The only thing really slowing things up is the building of the boards and I have to etch those from scratch. I just haven't felt like spending the time to do that yet, but should do so pretty soon. It's not that difficult, actually...!

Good luck on your ship!!


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

Despite the flaws, I can't help but have a very sentimental spot for those old kits. I've gotten as much enjoyment as I have frustration at modeling at least two or more of every single release of the AMT kit since the first back in '66. Wouldn't trade that for anything.

I'm gonna miss that thing being out on store shelves. I still have one boxed of every release. I think I'll be buried with them.


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## Jabbs (Oct 14, 2003)

I have a reel of .5mm fiber (20-50' I think) that I can't use because I drilled the holes too large and don't want to fill them in and start over. I'll send it if you pay for shipping. I could use some 1mm or 1.5 for the 22"
As far as electronics, Don's L & M has a great deal if you want for iether the 18 or 22" as long as the 18" gets a base to hide it in. I'm an electronic moron and had to enlist a friend to build a set up for me but he's going to build it for the other ships as well in trade for some lasers I had laying around the house. If not for him, I'd go to DLM and get the parts set with the deal for $60.
fokkerpilot Cool work. I wish I hadn't waited till now to start getting into modeling, I mean putting the kits together.


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## spacecraft guy (Aug 16, 2003)

When masking, some modelers use Bare Metal Foil - the hobby product that is a very thin sheet of foil with an adhesive backing. This very thin metal foil produces very sharp separation lines, and can be "molded" over irregular shapes due to the malleablility of the metal used. 

If you want to use the stuff you wrap your chicken dinners in, you can - a hobby magazine had an article on do-it-yourself Bare Metal Foil. Unroll a piece of Reynolds Wrap, smooth it out as best you can, then spray it with spray adhesive. Then take paint thinner, make a small puddle in the center of the sheet, and use a squeegee to spread it around the sheet. Allow the thinner to dry, and you have adhesive backed metal foil. It is a messy, smelly process, but it works. Essentially you are just diluting the spray adhesive - it comes out of the can very in a very viscous spray. 

Microscale has a foil adhesive that does the same thing, it comes in small, expensive bottles, but will also work.

When Nestles' Crunch bars came wrapped in a thin silver foil, that was used as well - nowadays most candy bars are wrapped in plastic.


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## Jabbs (Oct 14, 2003)

I thank you all.
Would a chrome spray paint work almost as well?
Has anyone put together the "Enterprise incident" Model set together? Could I use the sound effects circut board that comes with it for my mom's model as background sound along with the other sounds I have that are button activated? Are the models any good that come with the set? I am thinking of getting one. Bad idea?


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## Jabbs (Oct 14, 2003)

Sorry for any confusion over the size of fiber. It's .24-.25mm It's here for the asking if you or anyone else want's it. I could use something bigger but not by much and it's no big deal. 
Today I found a site you all might like to get screen shots of the TOS enterprise and other ships from. Every episode, so you too can have a breakdown trying to get all the details down like I did. The stills are at the bottom of the pages. http://startrek.epguides.info 
Every episode from TOS to Enterprise. DS-9 Voyager & TNG has a page and pics. Nice background too if you missed a show. Not like us trekkies would.


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## Jabbs (Oct 14, 2003)

Oh, just a thing I did I thought others might like. This is for the triangle deals on the under side of the saucer section. After cutting masking tape in the right shape triangle (I printed off a decal copy from the net and layed the tape over it to cut it out) and positioning it just right on the saucer bottom, paint the area with a few coats of primer or flat black. I suggest four coats. I know it sounds bad but when the paint begins to or is nearly dry, pull up the tape and you're left with indented triangles. It's nothing I think you guys here don't know but there's probably someone just like me reading this thread and I though they could use it.


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## Jabbs (Oct 14, 2003)

Ok, I just received the polar lights Enterprise. Wow! In like five minutes I had snapped it together just to get an idea of what it would look like once done and it beats the Ertl kits hands down. Just the decals alone put it in a league of it's own.
I can see why one hasn't been lit yet though. It's pretty small. I think I'll get another one just to try and light but it won't be till after I finish with the 22" Enterprise. Tom Sasser did a nice job here.


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## Jabbs (Oct 14, 2003)

*Pictures!*

OK so here I am, way after X-mas and still not done but I thought you guys deserved a look at what I have so far.
The base will be finished in two weeks and then Mom can have it. Better right and late than on-time and hacked.
Any Questions? Te seams will be cleaned up when delivered.
Thanks to you all and now oon to the other models I've purchased since starting this one. Damn internet an it's culttvman type sites.
More to come when she's done.
That's a dime in the right-hand side of the pic W/ Spock on right and Kirk on left.
You can see Spock and Macoy in the other. (paint bleed under the mask. I tried to clean it but this was as good as I could do.


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## Jabbs (Oct 14, 2003)

*pics*

Just a few more. Kirk in his "office" @ the rear of the bridge.


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## hunky_artist (May 26, 2003)

hehe, nice little touches.

So what did you use to light the inside?


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## Jabbs (Oct 14, 2003)

5 Ultra bright LED's in the saucer, three in the hull, one blacklight behind the sensor dish, 2 super blues in the aft caps for the nacelles and some lights from an old piece of junk radar detector for the nav lights but in retrospect. A cool running flourescant tube would do the whole thing sans flashers and nacelles and only cost 10 bucks with adapter from a computer mod place.
The next one will be totally TOS but the third in the line will be all disco baby! Strobes blacklights and effects to music. I'm all a giddy! I hope some of you hate that I'm going this route but it's my ship and so there. Nah nah nah.


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## Jabbs (Oct 14, 2003)

Did I mention the persons in the windows are not to scale? I just know how picky...


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

^^ Who cares? (The windows are made of thick transparent aluminum so they probably provide a magnification effect. :freak: )

COOL effects!


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## Jabbs (Oct 14, 2003)

Ah yes, transparent aluminium. "Hello computer..." *LoL*
Thanks, I'm glad you like it. it just came to me one day to try it. Now how do I top it?
Running film in the windows? Puppets/animatronics? Live Sea Monkeys as crew? Sorry for that last one. It's been a long day/night. Just kidding aboout topping anything. All I want to do is finish and get started on the next one.


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## Jabbs (Oct 14, 2003)

By the way, how are your 18"er's getting along?
It's been a while.


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## BATBOB (Jul 14, 2003)

I still love the 18" kits. I grew up with Star Trek (re-runs of course) in the 70's and these kits remind me of simpler times....

Sure they are inaccurate.....blah...blah....still fun to build though...

I have 2 that I picked up from eBay and will build them both up.


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## Jabbs (Oct 14, 2003)

T.G. for EBAY! BatBob, thanks for your suggestions on this too. You're all like godfathers to her, enterprise.


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## Jabbs (Oct 14, 2003)

hunky_artist said:


> hehe, nice little touches.
> 
> So what did you use to light the inside?


If you mean the picture windows, I had to make a backlight screen out of some cotton paper (for the best light transmission). I just angled one of the light sources to focus the light on the back of the paper and that way it didn't look like there was a light behind the slide. I then glued it and the slide in place. This was all after I had attempted to make the windows without bubbles. For this I used Elmers School blue washable gel glue. It won't hold anything. Nothing, but it dries clear and seems to be stable enough to last in that capacity and not dry out and fall out. I hope.


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## Jabbs (Oct 14, 2003)

If anyone is thinking of building the Re-fit and would like some slides from the movie to put in their windows, I have about 23 I'd be willing to donate or trade for a very thin grinding wheel for a dremel tool or a white LED or two. Or you can just ask nicely.
I'm not going to use them like I did on my 18" Ent. The scale is better for the re-fit than on the 18"
Even so you might want to try it for yourself. If not they'll end up in the garbage, I don't think I'll be doing the newer ships any time soon.


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## Jabbs (Oct 14, 2003)

*more slide pics*

These are of the engineering section (scotty) and the port sauser rim. (I still need to touch up the paint.
I know I said two weeks about a month ago. Issues issues issues.
I'll keep plugg'n away and get'em to you asap.
Later.
Oh, they look better than they do here. I can't seem to get a good pic.
Now I can't seem to get them to post here.?
"Working on it"


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## Jabbs (Oct 14, 2003)

trurt


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## Jabbs (Oct 14, 2003)

*Ok, now I have it*

Her you go. Just to show how fun this can be I decided that since the port side was never lit I'd take some creative freedom. Hope you don't mind.
I figure the transporter is on the same level and the secondary hull might be where Scotty takes a smoke break. (Q-tip for scale in the shot.


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## Jabbs (Oct 14, 2003)

Alright guys,
I need some help here. I have the base finished and ready for the model and electronics for the lights and sounds.
How do I put the ship on there?
I plan to use a brass tube but how to secure it all?
Remember this is the first one for me and I couldn't practice this step on the others... Well, I could have but didn't think I'd need to. It seems straight forward until I get to starting.
Please keep suggestions and everything simple and moron friendly. I'm slow and scared so if you think you can help...
The base is a Corian-like material and has copper fleck imbedded in it. There's a bottom with padded feet that screws into the bottom of the box to seal it all up. (In case of fire I don't want it to breath)
The secondary hull half has a reinforced "Hole" For all the good it'll do. 
Can I make it stronger? How and still leave room for the guts?


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## Jabbs (Oct 14, 2003)

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=85100
To follow along and help if you would like to.
Thanks


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## Jabbs (Oct 14, 2003)

I have just put the two secondary hull halfs together and epoxied the hell out of the interior. I poured in a glob of quick set epoxy in the interior of the sensor array and closed the pieces together and flipped the model over and rolled it around to spread the epoxy around. Next I used some plastic model glue for the side wall joints and had already left a bead of J.B. Weld on the top of the shuttle bay door piece to attach it to the underside of the top hull piece. With rubber bands and a little patience I was able to let her stand on her own on the brass rod and see where I needed to fill-sand next.
As you can see, I had already painted a good deal of the ship before I tried this and I didn't want to have to re-paint the whole thing so I tried to get the seam as small as I could before filling with more J.B. Weld and a razor blade as a trawl to smooth everything out. It's easier to work with when it's set up for a few hours, then apply it and smooth the lines down. I let it dry over night and began sanding this morning.
I'll see if I can't post a pic in the next day or so to help others in my place.
PLus to show my gratitude for all your help. I can't believe it's taken this long to just get here. I find I get more scared of doing a thing on this model and I'll stare at it for a few days trying to figure out how I want to do what I want to do. Last night I was thinking it would be impossible to do and five minutes later I was knee deep in epoxy and had it done, well closer than yesterday in any case.


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## Jabbs (Oct 14, 2003)

So I told you about the seam on the secondary hull. I went from there to here in a day and a half. I had some trouble with the decals but the seam was smooth and held long enough for the paint to dry and the base attachment.


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## Jabbs (Oct 14, 2003)

*More finished shots*

Just more of the same...


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## Jabbs (Oct 14, 2003)

The shuttle bay shot shows the blue lights in the rear of the nacelles. Sorry about the detail. These were large pictures and I had to shrink them down for this forum.
The blue light in these next shots, or the first of the four is an U.V. LED placed behind the deflector dish interior side of the sensor array-rings with pinholes to let it out on the back of the dish. It looks purple from here but on camera it's a blue. I justwanted to add something else goofy to the build. It really looks good when the lights are low and it's reflecting off the rings and back of the dish.
I would like to post big quality pics on a certain Mr.TVman's website but I'll see what he says first.
Once again, I'd like to thank Agatha Chamberlin for her diagrams. Her TOS enterprise looks way beter than mine but it was my first so in time I might be able to raise the bar for myself.
Also everyone who added to the discussion and pulled me away from the edge. It took me over a year to finish and I'm glad I took the time to learn before applying.
Any questions or comments?


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## BATBOB (Jul 14, 2003)

Nice model. May I suggest that you paint the domes on the nacelles in clear red. It'll add some colour to the model when the lights are off and shouldn't hinder the lights when their on....maybe clear turn signal yellow....Bob


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## Jabbs (Oct 14, 2003)

Actually, I struggled with their color for some time. I have been going through the DVD's and it looks so different in almost every other shot. Sometimes they look white or grey or yes, crimson red or darker at times. Orange, yellow. There is, hard as it is to see in the pics, a hint of pink in the caps and a red weather line around the caps but I wanted to do an accurate set of caps.
I did buy a can of transparant red paint. The messiest paint I have ever dealt with.
My garage is pink. 
I have two clear pieces machined down to fit but with the time I thought I had I figured if I couldn't do it right, I'd do it the easiest way I could. Plus, if I had painted them red, I might not get the oranges and yellows I get through the plastic and white paint you can see in the pics.
I'm happy that's all you found. The windows on the engine pylons are on the wrong edge. It was the way the kit came and I decided not to change it.
The cooling dealies on the nacelle caps, or just under and behind really, are way too dark, although I did split them up as opposed to letting them stay one piece like they came.
The windows I opened in the neck aren't lit for some reason.
Like I said, someday I'll get brave enough to do one of the 22" but I'll see if I can do a better job on the next two and the fourth I hope will blow people away.
As long as you guys are still willing to help me go insane.


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## BATBOB (Jul 14, 2003)

I thought your windows looking in were a real cool idea. I never would have thought of that. And accuracy....the Polar Lights kits is better, but smaller so you can't do the things you did with the 18".

I would practise the modelling skills with the PL kits as they are still in production. The 18" kit is harder to come by.

Take care, and by the way.....I'm still trying to improve. That's the great thing about modelling.....


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## starmanmm (Mar 19, 2000)

> It took me over a year to finish and I'm glad I took the time to learn before applying.


Don't sell yourself short. You did a great job. It took me a year and a half to build my J2 which included a custom base. So, you are not alone.
Funny thing, that shot of the rear of the nacelle end cap lit up blue, reminds me of a discussion with a friend of mine. He lit his up for he believed that they were lit also. I felt that they were never lit to begin with and look what you did!!!:freak: Oh well, I guess I have been wrong all this time!


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## Jabbs (Oct 14, 2003)

Oh My Golly are the windows hard to do on the PL ent. For me at least. I'm working one one right now and it's been made worse since I lost my tiny file. The windows thing I thought would be harder than it was. There are still better ways to do it. A forced relief could be done with a box of slides placed inside the window. A wall being a different view. One of the guys here showed me once on a model he and his buddies were doing for the Space station at wonderfest. Put me to shame.
I'm more than ready to try new things as long as I can afford them.
The other 18" are all about 90% done. Missing some paint and electronics. Oh and nothings glued together but all the detail and windows have been put in.
Thanks. Here's to the future.

One more thing. If you want to try the window thing in a model. There's a keychain out there with shots of the crew from the movie Enterprises. Very small slides but a perfect scale for the re-fit ent.


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## Jabbs (Oct 14, 2003)

No, you're not wrong. I don't think they were ever lit but I always thought that an anit-matter and matter reaction would create a shift in the surrounding... Never mind. It's red in front and so I chose blue for the rear. Slower red because it's all being pulled into a tiny space and blue fast because it's been whipped into a higher energy level. 
Plus, I had two halves of a plastic ball that were almost the right size and shape. Did I mention they were blue? I just really didn't like that they weren't lit on T.V.
Don't it look purty'r this way?
Besides, you will see people light up the impulse engines, I have never seen this on the show or the photon/phaser openings. I did add a beacon on the saucer and on the turbo-lift. Not accurate but if it were my ship, I'd have had one.
I have also noticed a dark blob or smudge on the underside of the saucer, towards the front. I see it in almost every episode but never on any prop model pics. Is it due the lighting on set or is it a phaser burn later removed by the prop people?
The shuttle bay lights are wrong on mine too and the light above the doors and on the hull (beacon) are not as bright as I'd like but it's good enough for the chicks I date. I lit both red lights surrounding the green bar. Only the port red light should for the most part, be lit as seen on T.V. It is lit in some shots but not in the more common close-ups I've seen.
Also I darkened the port rear life hatch on the saucer top. I figured it wasn't lit on the show but I couldn't have people thinking my lights had burnned out so I put an extra piece of masking tape over the hole from the interior side and left it there to make it a bit darker.
The lights on the hull above the shuttle bay and behind the beacon flash red, green and yellow but look white when not in mid flash. I should have painted the fiber optic strands I was putting in there.
I used a chrome paint to line the interior as opposed to the white gloss I had sprayed earlier. There are no light leaks, thanks in part to the ten estimated coats of paint inside and out. Note to future builders-assemblers. Use one paint can per ship for the finishing color if you use a spray can or plan to paint the whole thing as one of the last steps. I ran into two different colors in the same paint, different can but same paint.
This added to my frustration at joining the hull halves after painting them already. Masking the windows and parts I didn't want painted gave me color lines to sand out or blend with more paint. 
Also, every place where plastic was glued was also backed by the thickest bed of epoxy I could fit into the ship.
The last seam was actually one of the easiest steps. J.B. weld and a razor saved me... I don't know how much time and effort. The seam is really smooth and It took very little time or skill.
I should have let the first clear coat dry for a day before trying to apply the hull graphics/decals I sprayed the clear coat over them and followed with a flat clear. I think even a satin finish would work considering the sheen I see on the TOS versions when they are lit from behind. I though it was always flat but it does reflect quite a bit of light on the show, at the right angle. Will a flat paint do that at a larger scale? I'm thinking back to my army days... Navy ships.... I don't see it.
Pencil being one of my prefered tools, it defined the lines and added depth. Easily smudged and cleaned. It's the dark panels on the impulse engines. I couldn't have painted that straight. Colored pencils are good too. About a third of the decals are drawn in rather than applied or painted.

So now onto the rest (three more 18"ers each a bit different) and I'll see if I can't get further on my PL ent. I'll light that one too and see if I can't fit all the detail I missed on this one on it. That might be the one I keep. I'm still terrified of the 22" whole build.

Who has the best stuff as far as aftermarket parts for these (18")? I've seen DLM's stuff and like it. Also, the best decals? Go with gold borders or plain? I've seen both on the show. I'm asking not to get links to sites but just asking what you used/liked or didn't.
Since the parts cost five times what I paid for the kits I want to make sure I'll be as happy as I can be.
Anyone have extra parts they don't need? I'll trade or buy.


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## Jabbs (Oct 14, 2003)

I also wanted to add that the black windows and some of the white ones are pinstripe tape for cars, cut to the size I wanted and applied before the clear coats. The deflector dish was shortened by about a third. I don't know why but it looks better than being ten feet out there (by scale)
I was at the begining of all this sanding down all my edges free of paint and overspraythat I'd later be glueing. This was so I'd have a good clean surface to adhere to when I decided to do it. I noticed that sometimes I'd round down an edge or accidentally sand the exterior a bit.
The round edge wouldn't have provided much surface area for the glue so I took a razor blade and holding it perpendicular to the surface I was scrapeing and with just a bit of an angle and pressure was able in a few swipes to clean down to the plastic and it left a nice flat surface with plenty of area for the glue to bond and hold the attached piece. Considering the pieces don't match up all that well I find it easy and effective. Far more so than sanding or trying to use thinner.
So, let's say your edge is the rim of a glass or cup. You would hold the razor straight up and down and the blade edge will scrape the top of the glass, now add a "Lean" to your razor (top part leaning to the direction of the motion) and scrape away. When you see plastic, stop.
This is also a great trick for smoothing out paint lines where one coat overlaps another or your masking left a mark. Sanding works but it takes about ten times longer and with less control.


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## BATBOB (Jul 14, 2003)

Jabbs,

You might want to consider filling in all the windows on the 22" when you build it. I'm restoring one of my 22" and filled in the windows. I plan to use decal windows. They will look more consistent and cleaner than painting in the exiting moulded in windows.

For the 18" I'd sand down the window ridges and do the same. Looks much better.


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## Jabbs (Oct 14, 2003)

I agree. I have already cut out most of the windows on the 22" as I thought they should be based off every bit of research I have done thus far. If it was ever a window/light on the show then so shall it be on my model. As for the ones I'm not going to use, I'll putty over and smooth out.
On the 18" The raised lines for the windows weren't too hard to knock down but I needed the panel lines on the saucer.
On the next version you'll see, I sanded them down but just enough so when painted you can still make them out but not like you see on this one. It made weathering much easier. After the dull coat, I'll take a pencil and shade them in a bit (lines) 
I just joined the saucer to the secondary hull of another 18" last night. The only parts not painted are the engines and pylons. I'll need some electronics for this one too. 
This time I have the base idea in mind before I finish.


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## Jabbs (Oct 14, 2003)

I have notice that more people look at the pictures of the epoxy reinforcement I did rather than the ship. I have another almost done but I can take pics of it's interior to show how I strengthened it if anyone wants. Bastards! Here I go and try to show off the ship and all you care about is the frigg'n glue. *L*


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## Jabbs (Oct 14, 2003)

You'll have more fun lighting them...
Or fill them with a glow-in the dark paint?
I still don't want to join the halves. I'd sell the farm for a saucer aftermarket part so I wouldn't have to do it myself. But, then what would be the point of this then? I'd be just like the guy who details a "Playmates" electronic enterprise and calls it a model.
All in good time. I have to keep on-track with the goals list and unfortunately, it's on there. It's like a bungee jump your friends paid for and didn't tell you about till the cliff it as your feet and you just felt a nudge. I hope by the time I'm done with these that I'll be firmly strapped in to the harness and educated enough not to scream like a girl all the way down when the 22" time comes. Can I just move to Canada?


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## BATBOB (Jul 14, 2003)

If it's any consolation. I never even noticed the epoxy reinforcement. I just looked at the build.


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## F91 (Mar 3, 2002)

Heads up, regarding the Nacelles, Accurate parts makes red-clear-frosted nacelle endcaps. 8$


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## Jabbs (Oct 14, 2003)

I'm happy with both the last two posts!
Really? 
F91-- Thanks!
BatBob-- I knew I could count on you.


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## BATBOB (Jul 14, 2003)

If you don't want to light it. You can join putty and sand. If you want to light I suggest you buy the domes or recast them yourself.


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## Jabbs (Oct 14, 2003)

Recast? I might have better luck hitting a stone with my staff and geting water for my people.
Ol' Mr Mattheys will be hearing from me when the time comes I assure you. Recasting isn't all that hard but doing it perfect... Not that I know what it feels like but I doubt it's easy.


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## Jabbs (Oct 14, 2003)

I don't have pics yet but as I said before, the neck lights/windows I wanted weren't there. Not enough light and poor planning on my part.
I decided that wasn't an option so I cut some thick fiber optic fiber into lengths that I could snake into holes I cut for the windows when I made the model originally. I then mushroomed out the end and epoxied it in place. Now I have four windows where before there were only dark holes. It's not much but it really brings the model together when it's lit.


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## Jabbs (Oct 14, 2003)

Just finished the finishing I guess.
I had some problems with my warp motors and the Great folks @ Sparkchaser Electronics took care of me like I can't tell you. I'm beyond impressed and can't wait till they're back in the model game. *fingers crossed*
I took the opportunity to repair some glareing mistakes in the paint job.
Firstly since the caps were removed from both nacelles, I decided to give the three or six peices sitting below and behind the caps on the nacelles a proper color instead of the dark grey I had used before. Lastly I masked and penciled in the radiator grills on either side of the sensor array, infront of the decal. I had used, poorly, fiber optic strands for the detail in this area but didn't have the grills. I do now and it really does add to the whole look.
I can't wait to get rid of this thing. The longer I have it the ore stuff I'll find to fix and I don't have the patience. A year and then some has gone by and I'm ready to screw up a new model.


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## Dave Hussey (Nov 20, 1998)

Wow - I've just scanned this thread and I am impressed! Way to go!


Huzz


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## Jabbs (Oct 14, 2003)

Thank you very much


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## petseal (Apr 23, 2002)

I too have just scanned through your thread (and a couple off-shoots) and very much agree with Dave Hussey. :thumbsup: VERY impressive work and you say you have only built a few ships, even more impressive! I am glad to hear that your rod problem was fixed. 
As I am sure you now know from experience pre-planning EVERYTHING is the most important step when modifing any model. I can not count the times when thanks to planning ahead has eased unforseen problems. :freak: 
Keep up the great work and I look forward to seeing your next buildup. 
Later, Petseal :wave:


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## BATBOB (Jul 14, 2003)

*Here's my 22" build ..*

Jabbs,

Here's my 22" build. No lights or sounds. Just paint, and decals for windows, vents etc.....Just completed a couple of days ago....

Check out my "restored 22" thread. This machine won't let me upload 2 of the same pictures...Bob


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## Jabbs (Oct 14, 2003)

I... I uh... I can't see it!? I mean I can but it's really grainy.
[email protected]
Drop it to me, I'd like to see it.

I just deliverd the model last weekend. I couldn't tell if she loved it or liked it but it felt good to give it to her.
I think I know now wht it must be like to let your kids go off to school. It's like my dog died or something. I think I need to get the others fixed up so I don't suffer empty nest syndrome.
BATBOB. I just picked up another 22" so now I'm up to three. Still terrified to do much more than cut out windows. First the 18" ones and then the PL versions and then the assorted enterprises from the E. incident and the three ship sets.... Then I'll start on the 22" ers.

I'd really like to use the "split open" nacelle from the 22" kits to make a warp display in the base of one of these or the 22". Have it lit and active with a circut board. I think that would be neat. Any ideas Jwrjr?


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## BATBOB (Jul 14, 2003)

email sent...Bob


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## Jabbs (Oct 14, 2003)

Ok, it's a year later and I have two I'm trying to finish by the end of January. I could do it a weekend but I move like a sloth on these. I try and do each step right so I don't have to re-do it later or worse, ruin it more just to fix it.
The bases are the same, sound effects and view window are the same.
The big difference is you can lift these off the stand very easily and they have been reinforced to take the wear and tear of little hands (if you have kid or grand kids you know what I mean) I'll admit, I play with them a bit myself.
No decals on the secondary hull yet and the seams are drying on the saucer and secondary hull.
The eight sound effects are housed in a little glowing box on the right-hand part of the top of the base and the other five are controled by a switch flush mounted on the side of the base.
When the power is turned off the window lights, the arrow on top of the base and controler glow for about two hours.


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## Jabbs (Oct 14, 2003)

Here are some close-ups of the windows and yes, I know I have to dull down the paint in places, remember, I'm not quite done yet.
The power is supplied by a jack for an electric guitar (mono, a stereo one would give you more controls should you want them)
You can pull up with just a lillte force and the ship releases or you can spin it around for days.

The lit ship has parts from both VooDoo Fx and my hero, JWRJR

The LEDs were etched with sandpaper to give off more of a glow than a beam. Seven in the saucer and five in the secondary hull. I still need to shape the shuttle bay light and do some work to the right side pylon. It fell off last week and cracked really well so I'm letting some epoxy cure and I'll begin to take it down and shape it correctly. I hope it works. I've reinforced the joint with metal pins I drilled holes for and pounded into place with a hammer.


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## Jabbs (Oct 14, 2003)

I had to have Scotty in the lower hull.
Decals are a mix or JTGraphics and T. Sasser's PNT models decal sets.
There a few aftermarket parts from accurate parts.
I ground out the inside of the nacelle domes with a cutting bit in the fan pattern and frosted the outside with a glass "etching" spray. It's just paint but has a metalic micro flake in it that really looks neat when it's not turned on.
I'll be sure to drop off more when they're finished.
Thanks again for all the people who have helped and or inspired.
If you haven't seen Mike Scott's enterprise, prepare to be sick...
http://www.culttvman.com/mike_scott_s_classic_enterpris.html
That guys got some skills.
Later.


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## Jabbs (Oct 14, 2003)

No, it's not Hitler. I swear it's Scotty.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Very cool! Some of the pictures of the crew look almost in scale, even! :thumbsup: 

The lighting effects are incredibly good!


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## Jabbs (Oct 14, 2003)

Thanks,
I think the frosting of the LED's with the sand paper helped. That and JWRJR keeping me from burning it to the ground with his advise.
The "View windows" I have a kid's blue school glue over them because I planned on painting the dull this afternoon if I got the seam smoothed and painted. I didn't want it to ruin the window and it comes off really easily. They are a lot clearer than they appear and with the size are difficult to take pictures of in the dark.


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## BATBOB (Jul 14, 2003)

Looks really nice. Do the saucer lights flicker?


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## Jabbs (Oct 14, 2003)

They flash...On and off so I guess yes, they flicker.
I forgot to tell you about the bridge. I worked to get the same color from the Pilot episode when the camera drops down into the bridge. It's a quartz crystal and when you look down from above, you can see Kirk and Ohura in an amost 3-D image of them on the bridge. There's also a "View window" with Kirk Spock and Macoy on the transporter pads in the saucer rim righ next to the Port Nacelle cap. I assumed the transporters were on the same level so it's almost right and since the Port side wasn't show on screen nobody can tell me that there wasn't a window there. You fans of the filming prop might dissagree but this is more fun.
I'll see if I can get shots of those two after removing the glue masking so you can see it better.
Thanks!
See BATBOB, these one's are red. *S*


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## Tholian (Oct 3, 2004)

Jabbs said:


> They flash...On and off so I guess yes, they flicker.


Do the Nacelles Flicker? or did you get that Light effect from Cults Web site?


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## Jabbs (Oct 14, 2003)

I actually got these from VooDoo effects. They came with the red and yellow LEDs but through a cast red cap, yellow was about as red as the red LEDs so I changed them out. I "Found" clear nacelle caps somewhere and will use them on the fourth edition to the group so I can show off some colors.
JWRJR made me a set and I'm waiting to see what they look like once all the lights are installed. They look great now with a battery running them but it's always different when there's no light leaks from the parts not being sealed together.

I'd love to find someone willing to make clear end caps as well as the 2 pilot version tail caps for the 18" model
I know accurate parts advertises they have the pilot tail caps but when I ordered them they were about a sixteenth of an inch too small all the way around. I had to send them back but the bussard caps worked out fine. Be careful cutting out the original stock section you replace with the clear red one. I had a hard time working the parts to mesh up and not have any light leaks.
One ship used the stock parts and I just ground out the plastic till I could get enough light through to paint and still see the lights coming through. That's a tricky move, not going too far and melting the plastic or getting it so thin that the paint will eat it away.
Although it was easier than finishing the caps with the accurate parts. Sanding the contour around the cap was a bit_ _ for me. I'm not used to makeing parts and I'd rather just buy them and slap them on.
I guess that's why I'm here, to learn what I need to do if I can't find what I need.
JWJR's stuff is set to run at 12V and should be a bit brighter than Randy Newbert's stuff out of VooDOo FX so I'll use it on the opaque plastic stock bussard caps and used Randy's on the 9V setting for the clear caps. I've pushed his stuff to 11 volts but I didn't do it for long. They work fine still so kudos on that.


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## Jabbs (Oct 14, 2003)

I hope it comes out well on the dark shots.


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## Tholian (Oct 3, 2004)

Jabbs said:


> Be careful cutting out the original stock section you replace with the clear red one. I had a hard time working the parts to mesh up and not have any light leaks.


I got the Red ones from Federation models. I had no problem hooking them up to the End of the caps. All I did was take a Diamond saw and cut off the plastic, and then added the new red one with a little superglue. Made a nice tight fit.










But I never tried to light them. I have two more I have kept just for the lighting effect. I hope to put those to use in that way, but haven't had time or ambition to work on it yet.


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## Jabbs (Oct 14, 2003)

That's a cool looking ship! Man, if I could do something like that and had all the tools. I couldn't build that without lighting it. That looks like it was fun to put together.

Look, if I can do it... I know anyone with thumbs can do it. The people in here are always willing to help.


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## Tholian (Oct 3, 2004)

Jabbs said:


> That's a cool looking ship! Man, if I could do something like that and had all the tools. I couldn't build that without lighting it. That looks like it was fun to put together.
> 
> Look, if I can do it... I know anyone with thumbs can do it. The people in here are always willing to help.


Thanks for the comments on the Talon, here is the site if you want to see it all.

http://www.tholiansweb.com/Talon.html

Question for ya, I was thinking that if I did light everything, I would maybe wrap the insides tin foil. did you have to do that? or did you paint the insides. (In case I missed it)


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## Jabbs (Oct 14, 2003)

Here's the shots I was telling about. You can see the post and hole for the power and how all the guts from the base are all kid proofed with epoxy and resins.
The Transporter window still has the glue over it so I don't scuff it with the sand paper while sanding smooth the seam around the saucer and for the dull cout painting that might happen if it warms up a bit today.

If you wanted, you could run this without the base, just hang it in a corner with a patch cord carrying 9V and you'ld be good.


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## Jabbs (Oct 14, 2003)

I ised a black paint, then a white gloss. I used strips of tin foil where I could but with the frosting of the LEDs I didn't notice the difference in the windows light values, one compared to the other. I also don't have the LEDs near the rim of the ship's saucer. Three in the bridge are taped in place next to the "View windows" so you could see them even during the day. Then there are four LEDs in an "X" pattern pointing outwards. I wanted to put just one more for the lower sensor but didn't want to push my luck. I used white heat shrink and black electrical tape to insulate everything and epoxied each joint and tape wrap. 
I cut aluminum foil to match the shape of the top half and glued it in place.
The lower half still had spray "chrome" and white and so I added a few strips of foil but nothing drastic. Mostly, the sheen and shine I wanted from all the effort was wasted. By the time I had finished, the grease and oil from fingerprints, dust and overspray had dulled it in a lot of places. I would suggest doing it over your wires after they're inssulated and right before you close it up. It'll help hide the wires and look much cleaner.
I like the white paint better for LEDs and foil better for incandescants.
The white LED's sometimes burn blueish and some are more brown. Am I wrong?
With foil, you get these colors and it looks like grocery store lights.
Whith the white paint, it evens the difference out a bit I think.
It might depend on the appliation. For an effect, I'd say foil would be a better choice but to simulate the windows of this ship in particular, white paint and some foil seem to allow the frosted LEDs to give a good amount to the windows even through all my wires and tape and glues. It was bright enough with the five LED's; I only positioned one, the rest are free floating. When I closed it up I pushed one in with a knife. I tried setting them up in certain ways but nothing I did made a difference.
I got lucky.


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## Jabbs (Oct 14, 2003)

Tholian said:


> Do the Nacelles Flicker? or did you get that Light effect from Cults Web site?


Ioriginally bought a set from Sparkchaser and He replaced a set I had purchased earlier. When he did, I got the new "Cold Heat" soldure iron and was trying it out. I screwed up ad touched wires from both poles and fried three parts of the board. Even with new LEDs it wouldn't light up so I trashed that side's and bought through Culttvman's site the ones from VooDooFx
His had the yellow LEDs along with the red so I replaced the yellows with more reds. and I have one chaser left over incase I want to kit bash or make a funky addition to the boat.


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## Jabbs (Oct 14, 2003)

*More pics*

I've cleaned up the saucer seam and the secondary hull seam and applied a few more decals and pinstripe tape for dark windows.
After some polishing, you can now see the trio in the transportrer room on the saucer's port or left side.
I'll still have to weather it and add some detial decals, the lower strip of fiber optic filliment to the secondary hull up where the radiator-like grill decal is.
A few paint blemishes need to be addressed and I'll smack it with another dull coating and call it done.
I can't wait to finish and move on to the third installment.


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## JGG1701 (Nov 9, 2004)

Very nice , very nice ! :thumbsup:


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## Tholian (Oct 3, 2004)

I love how you have them in the windows. LOL But you should have them sticking there tongues against the Glass :jest:


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## Jabbs (Oct 14, 2003)

Perhaps a "Full moon"?
Thanks!


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## Jabbs (Oct 14, 2003)

So it's done and sold. I want to thank you all for your help and I can't wait for the third one to be done before the end of the month.
Here's some pics of the finished model.
Enjoy.


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## Jabbs (Oct 14, 2003)

*More pics*

Here's just a few more. I hope you like them.


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## Tholian (Oct 3, 2004)

They Look Fabulous!


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## Jabbs (Oct 14, 2003)

Muchas Gracias Senior!
So, arwe you going to light yous now???


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## Tholian (Oct 3, 2004)

Jabbs said:


> Muchas Gracias Senior!
> So, arwe you going to light yous now???


Someday my Friend..... Someday. :drunk:


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

:thumbsup: Great job! That's the best job I've seen on the later AMT kit with few or no add-on parts. Looks like a lot of work went into it!


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## Jabbs (Oct 14, 2003)

Thank you very much. 
I've seen some really great ones here on Culttvman.com and can't believe they were so well painted but not lit. My painting isn't anything but spray can paint and some mixed walmart small model paint bottles. 
Some of the 18" models I've seen here and on Cult's site blow me and these I did out of the water in my opinion. I hope some people who CAN paint get motivated by looking at what a moron can do with a little time and a lot help, and light their next one. I'd kill to see that.


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## Jabbs (Oct 14, 2003)

Tholian said:


> Thanks for the comments on the Talon, here is the site if you want to see it all.
> 
> http://www.tholiansweb.com/Talon.html
> 
> Question for ya, I was thinking that if I did light everything, I would maybe wrap the insides tin foil. did you have to do that? or did you paint the insides. (In case I missed it)


 Here's what I did throughout the ship. A combination of foil and paint. Notice the paint seems dull. After a few times touching it, it gets that way (Keep in mind when doing) I tried a clear coat but it made it even worse. I suggest you use white gloss paint and foil mixed.
Just my two cents.
The gloobs of stuff on the inside is glow-in-the-dark-paint.


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## Tholian (Oct 3, 2004)

Jabbs said:


> Here's what I did throughout the ship. A combination of foil and paint. Notice the paint seems dull. After a few times touching it, it gets that way (Keep in mind when doing) I tried a clear coat but it made it even worse. I suggest you use white gloss paint and foil mixed.
> Just my two cents.
> The gloobs of stuff on the inside is glow-in-the-dark-paint.


Thanks for the info. It will come in very handy. I just have to get my stuff together and get the LED's and stuff in order.
I found an incandescent Lighting system, but you know what it is like when the bulbs blow.
:freak:


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## Jabbs (Oct 14, 2003)

go to www.voodooFx.com and see if whatever ship you're building is big enough for one of their 4" cold cathodes will fit inside. they make enough light to replace about fifteen bright white LEDs in my opinion but they do heat up at the ends.
Contact JWRJR about electrical help.


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## Jabbs (Oct 14, 2003)

*So now what?*

I guess I didn't do enough. It arrived and I assume the guy "Tested" it. Broke the hell out of it more like it. Complained about a ring of color "Like a mistake you tried to paint over" on the saucer top. 
Any suggestions?


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## BATBOB (Jul 14, 2003)

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaakkkkkkkkkkkkkkk. She was a fine looking build. So sorry especially all that work.

What happened?

Those breaks look very severe to me. Very little plastic there and the nacelles are heavy. I wouldn't know where to start on fixing that.


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## Tholian (Oct 3, 2004)

Jabbs said:


> I guess I didn't do enough. It arrived and I assume the guy "Tested" it. Broke the hell out of it more like it. Complained about a ring of color "Like a mistake you tried to paint over" on the saucer top.
> Any suggestions?


Tell him the ring is accurate. He wanted accurate, you gave him accurate.

As for the Engines, if you add a bit of superglue to the nacelles, and then hold them in place while you have someone spray the activator, do you think that it will hold? The glue is pretty strong. And the breaks look like they will match up pretty good when pushed back together. If not, then it is time for the magnifying glass and the paintbrush and add color to the areas that show. Worst is that you will need to putty it again and then redoing the paint in those areas. You will have to mask off the joining areas without pulling up the decals. It is all a tough job, and you can't really say exactly what you can do, until you do it in steps. First get it back together and see how it is after that, and so forth.

Good Luck my Friend!


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## Jabbs (Oct 14, 2003)

Well, I've already begun down the slippery slope. I used the dremel and cut out around the wires and pins. I've replaced the pins with thick staples that I can't bend with my fingers. They're about an inch and a half long. I drilled into the epoxy filled pylond and inserted them so about a quarter inch is exposed to go into the holes I drilled in the hull.
I thought about glueing but I didn't think it would hold. I'm knee deep in it now. The nacelles are held on now with just the wires. It looks pretty cool though when lit.
I think I'll get some super strong shapeable glue and just build up the bases of the pylons a bit.
I also ground out the remaining pylon and glue combo still left in the holes. I'm hopeing
the added surface area and depth, the staples and sandng down to the plastic around the area where it broke will all help to bring it back to life as strong or stronger than before.
I'm just amazed. I did some pretty good testing of the strength of the nacelle connection and it was rock solid and could take the full weight of the ship easily on either side. It took alot to break it and so there were stress bulges in the immediate plastic around where it broke. I had to get rid of it.
I'll post progress shots incase this happens to anyone else.
Thanks though.


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## Tholian (Oct 3, 2004)

Why did you sell it? or give it away? Well probably for money. But if someone wanted a piece like this, they would have known about the way the ship is designed. they would know about the ring.
Tell him to look at this, http://www.starfleet-museum.org/constitution.jpg.
this shows the ring that you covered the mistake with.


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## Jabbs (Oct 14, 2003)

Why sell it? In building the one for my Mom I bought a few for spare parts or testers. After doing the first one I was convinced I could do better. Now on this second and third one I just figured someone might like them enough to buy them and I could recover some of the cost of all the stuff I bought for these things and the models I want to build in the future. That refit aint gonna be cheap.
Plus I'd bought a few "Pro-built" models and they sucked. Even to my ameture eye. I didn't pay thousands but for what I paid I expected to see something beyond what I got.
I wanted to see if I could do better. PLus some folks around here who saw it thought I should see what I could get for it.
I'm still learning and becoming more anal with each one. I'm sick, I have the bug. Damn Star Trek.


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## Lloyd Collins (Sep 25, 2004)

The ring is coffee cup stains.


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## Jabbs (Oct 14, 2003)

Batbob, I know, what the hell huh? He couldn't just enjoy it, he had to go and test it.
I think that's what hapened. He hasn't said much but 'Where's my money"
I'm pretty sure it's going into repairs.
I hope I can save her.
Coffee, it is about the same color.... It might save me time and effort putting it down with coffee rather than paint.


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## JGG1701 (Nov 9, 2004)

Well did you fix her ??? :thumbsup:


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## Jabbs (Oct 14, 2003)

I'm still in the tirage phase. We got CAT scanns and lab work to do still.

I have to figure what's the best glue or epoxy to support the pins inside the glued area and if it'll be enough to hold the nacelles still and stable. I'm still in the stare and swear stage.
Any suggestions?


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## Jabbs (Oct 14, 2003)

I've bought some different types of glue stuffs and tried all of them on a test peice that is made like the nacelles. once I give it a day or two to cure all of them, I can see which one holds plastic best, resists flex and stress, which I can sand/paint
I want to make sure I never have to do this again so I want it done right.
If I were better than I am, I'd drill a hole from the pylon into the hull and drive a nail down the hole. Fill it, sand it and paint it to match but I think I'd ruin a wire or something.
I hate this.


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## JGG1701 (Nov 9, 2004)

I got faith in ya.


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## Jabbs (Oct 14, 2003)

Faith. I'll need some. Thanks!


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## Tholian (Oct 3, 2004)

You couldn't have them hold with a dab of Super Glue? that way they would be stable? Then you could add a better epoxy later and let it dry? Are they that heavy?


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Epoxy putty.


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## Griffworks (Jun 24, 2002)

I'm a bit confused on what's happened here. You sold the model to a guy, right? I'm assuming that he received it and everything was OK initially? Then he says something like "it wasn't very sturdy, I broke it!" and expects you to fix it...?  

Did you take pics of the packing process, insure it and set it up for Signed Receipt? If not and you're sending it back to him, I'd pack it in a box w/so many peanuts that the thing _couldn't_ move, take a ton of pics and also explain to the guy about the "rust ring". If the guy breaks it again, I'd then tell him that he shouldn't zoom the thing around the room trying to reinact that totally unbelievable scene from the end of "Star Trek: Nemesis" where Picard rams the Reman ship - and then expect you to repair it. 

I dunno. If I'd found out that the guy received the model alright, signed for it and there were no problems w/the box, I guess I would have told the guy "Too bad!" and felt my obligation was complete. Of course, that's once the thing was insured and sent w/a Signed Receipt option and I could prove that the model arrived alright. Was there no damage to the box before he opened it...? 

Anyhow, beautiful buildup on that. Such a shame that the thing was destroyed by the client.


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## Jabbs (Oct 14, 2003)

It was insured and I'm sure it'll all work out.
I found a glue to use to fill the gaps and the staples will keep it strong from within I hope.
I was more heart-broken than anything. I'm kind of glad to have it back. It deserves to go to someone who knows about the friggn' rust ring. Man that was hard to do (for me)
As soon as I get some progress, I'll post the repair.
Thanks for the thoughts though.


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## Jabbs (Oct 14, 2003)

Ok, with a great deal of trepidation and sweat from the stress I got the pylons back and as straight as I could.
I used a plastic welder made by Devcon. It's a two-part epoxy type stuff and holds really tight to the metal rods I have in there for support. I had cleared about a quarter inch of the lower pylon and dug around the base on the secondary hull to give it plenty to hold on to. It was then a matter of getting up the nerve to try it.
No time like the present, I figured tonight, so without much preparation I went to work mixing the glue.
It sets up in four minutes and is really hard. I find on test pieces I break or tear the plastic before the bond ever gets clost to weakening so I hope it holds for a while.
I gobbed the welder in the hles I dug out on the starboard side of the hull. Positioning the pins of the pylon into the gob filled holes I pushed them in and built up the rest of the gap with the welder. With four minutes I figured I'd get one chance at this so I thought I could hold it in place long enough to set up and I could deal with the port side afterwards, alligning it with the side I was doing.
After applying the welder all over the joint I turned the ship upside down and layed it on the counter top. I leveled out the saucer and made sure the nacelle sat flush with the counter and in-line with the line of the saucer. The hardest part was holding it all still long enough to have the welder set up, that and trying to figure what was straight or not. Once it had hardened I repeated the process with the other side and found that one easy to match to the first pylon and nacelle position. I hate to say it because I thought I did a pretty good job the first time but I guess I didn't; It looks straighter now than before it was trashed, go figure.
Now if I can sand it down and match the paint, I'll be soooooo Happy.
It'll probably take me a while to do as I'm really scared to screw it up.
It takes me a long time to build up the courage to do anything on these and doing something on an already painted and detailed model is not my idea of fun at all.
From now on, I'll always use metal rods to support the pylons and will fill them with epoxy or something to keep this from ever happening again. *knock on wood*
I'll post when finished if I ever get brave enough to do so.
Thanks


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## Griffworks (Jun 24, 2002)

Kewel, dude! Great job. Lots of trimming and sanding in your future, I guess, eh? At least it'll hold this time! 

Best of luck.


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## Jabbs (Oct 14, 2003)

God I hope, So far so good. I thank the stars for dremel tools. Best money spent yet.


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## JGG1701 (Nov 9, 2004)

Good luck "bub". :thumbsup: 
Keep us posted with pics. please.


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## starmanmm (Mar 19, 2000)

So, you used a dremel tool to grind the epoxy down? How did you fair so far? I was surprised to see that you expoxied up the pylon so far. I guess you will have to shape it somewhat?


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Next time try the epoxy putty. Magic Scupt is one brand. Milliput is another. You can make your armature and do a lot of shaping of the putty before it sets up leaving only some final sanding and such afterwards.


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## Jabbs (Oct 14, 2003)

Ok,
Sorry I was so lazy. It just scared me to do a repair when I'm still so new at the modeling side.
So, yes, grinding out the joint that was broken took about an eighth of an inch deep and to the sided of the joint on the hull and a quarter inch from the pylon.
Drilling carefully not to hit wires, I inserted inch long metal rods I can't finger bend, into the pylons from below so just a quarter inch or so stuck out to go into the hull.
Filled the gap with plastic welder and inserted the pin ends, two each pylon-front and back.
I then held each pylon for ten minutes till set and after it was rock solid, began to grind and sand away. It took a while to get the shape right and I used JB weld to fill in where I needed to, sanding all the while.
Paint was applied, sanded, applied sanded and applied again. I replaced the decals I lost in the repair and weathered it. It's not perfect but in return for the work, I learned a good deal and the nacelles are more dead on straight than they were before.
I'm very happy with the way it came out considering what we went through.
I hope never to go through it again so I'll be putting metal pins in every joint from now on.
Thanks for looking, it's on ebay at the moment.


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## Jabbs (Oct 14, 2003)

The new owner is happy. and so am I.
Thanks to all of you for your help with everything.


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## Tholian (Oct 3, 2004)

Thanks for Sharing. Loved the photos.


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## Jabbs (Oct 14, 2003)

My pleasure. Thanks for the imput.


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