# Which HO Track Manufacturer?



## smokinHOs (May 30, 2006)

Ok- I know this has been discussed at some point but I want to revisit it. I am moving soon and will have the space to open up my layout. Currently I have enough track to stretch to 4x20 without wasting much table space. The Max that I have is about 5 or 6 years old but in excellent shape. Never hosted races, always kept inside (climate controlled, etc.)

The question is: what type of track are most clubs, hobbyists, racing groups running now? I have seen quite a few more Maxtrax and Wizzard tracks, but what about the even smoother TKO or Bowmans? The old 21st Century tracks were stupid smooth. 

I was considering selling my Max in order to buy a new track with a different layout. The only real option for me is a continuous rail or maybe a three or four piece sectional layout... That would be the only real upgrade over my track now. (except for the obvious layout change)

Something I have wondered. Since I run everything and not limited to just mag cars or tjets, I need a rail height/width that works for both. Just curious as to what is the most popular now.

-Marc and Marcus


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## waltgpierce (Jul 9, 2005)

Having worked on/set up all of the major brand tracks (Bowman, Dunlap, TKO, Wizzard, MaxTrax), it seems to me the smoothness of the track(s) is a direct result of the effort upon initial setup. All are very good.
However, if I had to choose, I feel the Maxtrax provides the best initial quality. Thus, for my own personal track, I chose MaxTrax. Secondly, I prefer the 1/64 scale lane spacing of MaxTrax.


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## CTSV OWNER (Dec 27, 2009)

If I bought another good track it would be Max Trax. You can set it up smooth. And if you wish to change it a bit you can add turns or straights with reasonable ease.

Others that are fixed sometimes are just to big to move or when not in use take up to much space. Plus I could not get anything over 8 foot into my basement because of the steps and turns.

Dave


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## martybauer31 (Jan 27, 2004)

We run strictly Brystals in our group and they are absolutely amazing.

That being said, I have run on Bowmans at the Fray which were always nice as well as on Max Trax which is a step down in track quality not being continuous rail, but I would still race on one any day of the week.

I hear the TKO's are great, we have someone in our group with a Dunlap that is decent, but the railing is off and not quite as much attention was paid to the routing of the track.

I guess I thought the bonus of the Max was that you could buy a few new sections and have a completely different layout without buying a new track. Why not just get some new sections for what you have now, or are you simply looking to just go another direction?


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## bearsox (Apr 22, 2006)

waltgpierce said:


> Having worked on/set up all of the major brand tracks (Bowman, Dunlap, TKO, Wizzard, MaxTrax), it seems to me the smoothness of the track(s) is a direct result of the effort upon initial setup. All are very good.
> However, if I had to choose, I feel the Maxtrax provides the best initial quality. Thus, for my own personal track, I chose MaxTrax. Secondly, I prefer the 1/64 scale lane spacing of MaxTrax.


*I agree with Walt on this one as well. I think given the effort a Max can be as smooth as anything and has an advantage in that being sectional you can opt for a new layout just by moving pieces around. Nice if the initial excitement wears off the layout. Can't do that on a fully routed unless you ask for a bevy of cuts in which case the track is basically a Max. That said i have a buddy with a TKO that he did a smart thing on and ordered strategic cuts at the 4 corners and he can now remove the entire infield and drop in straights that make the track a large banked oval. Smart move as this gives him a 2 for 1 situation !

Bear :wave: *


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## SuperFist (Aug 7, 2005)

All the continuous rail Brystal tracks are my favorite.

__________________


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## waltgpierce (Jul 9, 2005)

I agree that the Buck/Brystal tracks are exceptional in quality. Our group, the Front Range HO club, has two of them in our race rotation. The only downfall of these is that the layout is set by the manufacturer; the owner has little input for modifying/personalizing the track layout.


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## martybauer31 (Jan 27, 2004)

waltgpierce said:


> I agree that the Buck/Brystal tracks are exceptional in quality. Our group, the Front Range HO club, has two of them in our race rotation. The only downfall of these is that the layout is set by the manufacturer; the owner has little input for modifying/personalizing the track layout.


I worked with Bryan on mine, sent him a hand drawn sketch, he got it worked up into an autocad file, we tweaked things a bit to how I wanted them and also how things would best work on a real track. I had input all the way through....


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## brownie374 (Nov 21, 2007)

bearsox said:


> *I agree with Walt on this one as well. I think given the effort a Max can be as smooth as anything and has an advantage in that being sectional you can opt for a new layout just by moving pieces around. Nice if the initial excitement wears off the layout. Can't do that on a fully routed unless you ask for a bevy of cuts in which case the track is basically a Max. That said i have a buddy with a TKO that he did a smart thing on and ordered strategic cuts at the 4 corners and he can now remove the entire infield and drop in straights that make the track a large banked oval. Smart move as this gives him a 2 for 1 situation !
> 
> Bear :wave: *


Thats one hellofa good idea,that guy was really thinkin.


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## waltgpierce (Jul 9, 2005)

_"I worked with Bryan on mine, sent him a hand drawn sketch, he got it worked up into an autocad file, we tweaked things a bit to how I wanted them and also how things would best work on a real track. I had input all the way through...."_

That's great! Brystal tracks are incredibly smooth.

martybauer31, how about a few pics of the track? I would like to see your layout.


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

Given who it is made by I would suggest BSTS is a viable alternative to max.


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

> The question is: what type of track are most clubs, hobbyists, racing groups running now?


Easy answer: Tomy.

There are smoother boutique tracks out there to impress your friends and family and to bring the track part of the racing experience into the current and out of the past, but if you are talking MOST and are including hobbyists, Tomy is by far the most popular. 

I love racing on the ultra smooth customs and large format modular tracks, but the roots of HO slot car racing are still set down in the snap together plastic set track and Tomy is the best of breed and most popular in that category. A race on Tomy is never boring and a decently installed and tuned Tomy is always a blast to race on. I can't imagine any "professional" racing organization not having at least one Tomy track in their series and on the docket for their National Championship racing venue. 

If you want to relate to the average hobbyist aspiring to enter into the fray and work his or her way up the food chain, you need to maintain a connection with both cars and tracks. Unless of course you want to see a pattern of ever escalating costs and ever diminishing participation, with the last few elites racing megabuck cars on megabuck tracks with no inflow of new blood.


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## smokinHOs (May 30, 2006)

*HO tracks...*

AFXToo,

Good point on the Tomy.. I have raced and played on Tomy and had a 4-lane Tyco years ago. The Tomy track is well made and durable, but I am not sure that it would make sense for me to take a "step back" to Tomy from my Maxtrax layout. I think if I was just starting out and did not have the initial budget to buy a higher end, dare I say "commercial" track, I agree that Tomy is the way to go. 

I will say this though, the first time I raced on a Buck several years ago I was in awe at the smoothness of the track. The cars were crazy quiet and could hear the whine of the motors on the straight. I swore that someday I would find one, but ultimately bought the Max. It is true too, if you set up a Max right, the only real clickity clack I hear is going over the dead strip.

Based on the several responses, and I apprecaite them all, I am considering two things, modifying my existing layout with some additional Max pieces if I can get it done in a reasonable amount of time and for a reasonable price, or scrap the Max altogether and have the layout I want custom built by one of the major builders.

And yes- someone made a good point. When I originally bought my Max, I bought additional sections of straight to made it possible to remove three or four pieces and add two to create an oval. I also purchased additional pieces to form a camelback (looks like an "E") on one end.

Thanks again for the responses. Track coming to a home near someone in M'Burg WV.. LOL

-Marc and Marcus


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## H.O. Slotrods (Jan 30, 2009)

Unless of course you want to see a pattern of ever escalating costs and ever diminishing participation, with the last few elites racing megabuck cars on megabuck tracks with no inflow of new blood.Quote

this i have seen at the local dirt track. hobby stock class was to be fun cheap racing.was with limits that should have been enforced. most got sponsors with money so they could go faster. you can only go so fast and be within the rules.so the rules change alittle just to please the money. it finally got to the point where a guy would build a car to the rules and go race and just get smoked. so it got where new drivers was not being competative and wasnt having any fun so there was fewer and fewer every year so the class was gone.what happed to the die hard racer in that class? they moved up to the next class (faster more money) and they all did the same thing to that class. i dont think slot racing is much diff.a small town guy take his stock car to a big city track enters in a stock race and gets smoked. we are a dieing breed.


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## smokinHOs (May 30, 2006)

*HO slots...*

Slotrods...

I know we are straying from the initial post but I couldn't help but respond. I agree with the dirt track deal, my oldest son and I raced Karts.. same thing. Needed to blueprint the motor, clutches, buy new tires.. etc.. if you wanted to run near the front. But the truth is that, you can do all of that and stay within the rules. I think no one will argue that cash = speed.

But with slotcars I have to agree and disagree. I agree that people who have more money to put into a hobby will typically be more competitive. For example: You run a "stock" class. Let's say LL or Tyco. You must use all stock parts or stock replacements. Think the class will be close? At first maybe, but as time progresses the cream will rise. Why? Because no Tyco is created equal. I have well over 100 stock tyco chassis's sitting under my shelf queens. I am confident that I can find a handful of "freaks" in no time. Is that fair? They are all stock. So I get to choose from 100 chassis's and the other guy has 6. The odds are against the half dozen chassis's. 

However- I think there are ways around everything. Allow and hot stock arms, no more searching. And/or add slip-on tires, allowing only certain sizes. And enforce the rules. No individual interpretation. If it is not in the rules, you can't do it/have it. You can even have a claimer race or break-out rule.

You can never make the playing field completely level, but you can get it real close. 

I can guarantee one thing though.. if you don't win at your local races on your club tracks you probably won't win on the national level either. 

The truth is... find a good group of guys you like to hang with, race some, share a 6 or 12 pack, swap cars and lanes, and just enjoy it. There is no money in racing slots, just a good time and good conversation...


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## martybauer31 (Jan 27, 2004)

waltgpierce said:


> _"I worked with Bryan on mine, sent him a hand drawn sketch, he got it worked up into an autocad file, we tweaked things a bit to how I wanted them and also how things would best work on a real track. I had input all the way through...."_
> 
> That's great! Brystal tracks are incredibly smooth.
> 
> martybauer31, how about a few pics of the track? I would like to see your layout.


With pleasure!  This one is based on a few different track layouts I liked...


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

I would never suggest going back to Tomy from Max, or any other pro track. I was simply pointing out the popularity of the old snappy track. It still has a place, a very important place in fact, in the overall hobby. It's our equivalent of the local dirt track or smaller venue paved track.

If I had a Max that I liked and wanted a bigger track, I'd simply add on to my existing Max. The only thing that would change my mind would be if I had an old Max with the super heavy downforce rails. Those older Max tracks are harder to get a car setup to run well on if you are not used to running on something with that much downforce. Visitors may find themselves without the right parts in their box to be competitive while not risking a meltdown. 

I am impressed with the TKO tracks that are starting to make strong inroads into the hobby. The fit and finish seems very good and the rails are good, not too much downforce, and they are laid in quite nicely with only minor tuning required. I found that my Tomy setups for SS were not too far off the mark on a TKO, and that is a good thing in my opinion. The TKO also has the option for banking, which gives a little variation but not as much as you would think for magnet cars. I have not tried a TKO with TJets however so I can't say how they match up for that class of racing. The banking effect is probably more noticeable with TJets and magnatractions. 

I also like the WizzTrackz. The rails on these seen almost identical to Tomy in downforce, which again is something that I personally prefer especially when running Mods and RO. 

The large format modulars like Max/Wizz/TKO are definitely a huge step up the smoothness index over Tomy, but the single or two piece routed are potentially at an even higher level. I've raced on a track made from synthetic marble, and I have to say that was the quietest and smoothest ever besides being museum quality look & feel.

Good luck!


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## Dyno Dom (May 26, 2007)

I recently upgraded my 6 lane Tomy to a Max-Trax. Currently attempting to figure tire sizes for the rail height & downforce. My original preference was a sectional manufacturer. I started to 2nd guess my decision because of the difference in chassis set up vs. Tomy. This thread makes me feel more comfortable w/my desision. The set up for J/L & G-Jets is close, but there is a much larger span for mag cars like G-3 & Storms. I've heard a lot of good things about the TKO tracks, but have not seen one. Are they continious routed or sectional like a Max-Trax?


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## noddaz (Aug 6, 1999)

*My track is a TKO*

I have raced on MAx.. Nice track, but I don't care for the wide lane spacing.
After all a little bumping IS racing. I have raced on Brystal type tracks. Great tracks for high end magnet cars. Overkill for the more casual racer like me. I have raced on Bowman tracks. Great tracks, nice flow. And it is more or less what other manufactures have copied. But MY track is TKO. And I like it just fine.

Here is a link if you are interested...

http://www.cnccustomcutting.com/id53.html


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## brownie374 (Nov 21, 2007)

Mine is too and you can pick the lane spacing,and they have banked turns available.


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## Dyno Dom (May 26, 2007)

Are the TKO tracks sectional or continious routed?


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## smokinHOs (May 30, 2006)

*HO tracks...*

AFXToo...

You make a good point on the set-up. Trust me, I am still trying to figure out all of the various set-ups for my Max and I must say there has been more than one time that I had wished that the rails have similar downforce to the Tomy track. Several years ago when I first bought my Max, I was the only person that had one that was anywhere near me. The only other was just south of Daytona. However- only one close friend had a track at all and it was a Tomy layout. I found it much easier to find the right combo of tires/mags fr his Tomy than my own Max. Each are that much different. Then when a couple local guys put together a great 6-lane Tomy for some weekend racing, I struggled even more working on cars at home and trying to race on the Tomy. I will say that I don;t think my tjet set-ups changed from one track to the other, and the classes like LL Nascar only required a simple slip-on silicone tire change. (Cheap and easy to do with the sized double flange rims and slip-ons). The higher end stuff tends to drive me crazy when going from one track manufacturer to another.

I guess that brings us to another question. If Max has more downforce than a Tomy, which higher end manufacturers are the closest to Tomy? And whats the deal with the Tjet guys? Are the Fray tracks and Tjet guys running a different rail?

-Marc and Marcus


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

I'm not a big fan of downforce, but I do collect and run cars from most manufacturers. I've only had the opportunity on two occasions to run on a Bowman track and found it to have much less downforce than my Tyco track (which in turn I have found to have less than Aurora). I don't care to run magnet cars (Tyco 440s, Tomy or Lifelike) on my plastic track, but on the Bowman, they were a blast and spinning out was real easy.

If ranking manufactured routed tracks for downforce, how would you rank them to each other, as well as to plastic track? Do they all use rail, or do some use braid?

Thanks...Joe


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

> which higher end manufacturers are the closest to Tomy?


In terms of setups for superstock, mod, and Tyco w/phase IIs I have found the newer generation WizzTrackz and TKO tracks to be close to Tomy in terms of rail downforce. But then again there is some variability among Tomy tracks depending on what the owner has done to the rails.


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## brownie374 (Nov 21, 2007)

My TKO has .015 rail similar to tomy except tomy is up and down.The tko is semi sectional and you can choose rail height and lane spacing.


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## Dyno Dom (May 26, 2007)

Any updates for track manufacturers or layouts of new track owners?


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## Rich Dumas (Sep 3, 2008)

Well, there has been a seven year gap in this thread. I wonder if the original poster expanded/modified his MaxTrax or bought a new continuous rail track. I have run dozens of continuous rail tracks and about a half dozen MaxTrax and Wizzard tracks. I would have advised him to stick with the MaxTrax and buy some extra sections if he was looking to do a new layout. My own track is a MaxTrax that I bought in 1999. I am still as pleased with it as I was when it first arrived and in 2009 I bought a new track section so I could convert the roadcourse to an oval. A picture of the oval configuration can be seen on the MaxTrax site. MaxTrax do have higher than standard rails, mine are 0.018 inch and the slot is not as deep as Tomy track. The extra wide lane spacing and super wide shoulders mean that you can't fit as much track on a given table as you could with regular sectional track or any of the continuous rail tracks.
If someone was starting from scratch I probably would suggest that they start with Tomy track and upgrade from that once they were sure they were going to stick with the hobby. If they did want to upgrade they would then have to choose between a MaxTrax, Wizzard track, or one of the continuous rail track makers. If you wanted a banked section that would narrow the field to a couple of makers.
Since the thread started several of the track brands have change hands. Under the original ownership orders for MaxTrax began to slip and people feared that they might never get their tracks and their deposits would be lost. Eventually Paul Kniffen took over the business and I believe that his first priority was to make good on the back orders. The situation with TKO tracks was about the same, they were great tracks but the orders had slipped. TKO has also changed hands, I have not heard much about how that turned out, perhaps other readers could post something about that.
I have run on quite a few Bowman tracks and those are first rate. Bowman tracks emulate Tomy track in terms of downforce and they can have banked turns.


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## Dyno Dom (May 26, 2007)

How about slot depth for guide pin of Bowman, Elite and TKO in relation to Tomy? Does TKO also offer a bank?


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## Rich Dumas (Sep 3, 2008)

I believe that all of those tracks have the same slot depth as Tomy track, about 0.188 inch. For those tracks I set my guide pins at .145 using a Scale Engineering gauge. My MaxTrax slots are about 0.155 inches deep, that is a little deeper than the original Aurora Model Motoring track. For my track I set guide pins at 0.135 using the SE gauge. The latest MaxTrax may have a deeper slot, if I am feeling ambitious I may ask Paul Kniffen about that. The Tomy depth that I quoted was actually from a section of Aurora AFX track, if you have a different number for Tomy or the other tracks please post it.


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## Dyno Dom (May 26, 2007)

Thanks Rich, perfect input as always. :thumbsup: Brad's site has updates, does anyone have additional info for Elite/Viper or TKO tracks?


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