# Repairing T-Jet Brush Springs



## Grandcheapskate

I know it's not worth the trouble, but just as something to try, I would like to repair the brush "springs" on original Aurora T-Jet chassis. I have a couple chassis which are in really good condition except for the fact that the brush springs have either broken, lost their tension or have gotten out of shape.

The first step would be the removal of the rivets (or whatever the correct name may be). I have no idea how to do this or what tool is required, so I could use some help there. Then there is the matter of getting replacement material and reinstalling new rivets. Neither of which I have any experiance.

Can anyone offer a simple step by step and what tools (and parts) are required.

Thanks...Joe


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## Gary#8

Joe,
First thing would be to obtain a drill bit small enough to drill out the old rivet with out getting into chassis. Then need thin spring steel like piece of metal like an old feeler gauge. Drill out rivet and put old brush spring on top of feeler gauge and trace out, adding extra for broken off part. Cut out with small scissiors, bend to shape with needle nose pliers as old brush spring and rerivet with new rivet or very small screw # 0. Presto fixed! You will need some type of magnifing glasses or magnifing head band or light. The drillbit,scissors, needle nose pliers, feeler gauges,magnifing headband, bench magnifing light or eye loupes, available at harbor freight.http://www.harborfreight.com/ Small screws or rivets maybe at local hardware store or specility bolts and nuts place like Douglas Industrial http://douglasind.com/
Then try and you will be able to fix all your old T-Jet chassis! Hope this helps as some things have no easy/simple fix. Projects like this can make you some $ as maybe if you master this you could fix others cars. :thumbsup:


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## Gary#8

Joe,
I have another idea. You maybe could cut a very small piece of thin plastic like lexan and super glue it over the brush hole and put a spring in the brush hole after the glue dries like on a AFX Super II car. Or better yet put Super II brush tubes in the chassis. Also, I don't what your soldering skills are but you could solder an extra piece of metal on to the old brush tab. Also you could take a piece of a pop top from a soda can cut to size and try to slip it under the brush tab, between the chassis and the brush tab. Lets us know how you make out.


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## 88T-BIRD

If I had of known sooner, I would have gave you some old chassis that I received with a recent purchase. The chassis were melted around the brush holes but the brush springs were in great shape. They went in file 13 because I have way to many T-jet chassis.


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## slotking

if they make rivets that small, I would assume there may be a rivet removal tool out there as well????

the other question is where to get the tiny rivets and tools??


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## alpink

*threw chassis away?*



88T-BIRD said:


> If I had of known sooner, I would have gave you some old chassis that I received with a recent purchase. The chassis were melted around the brush holes but the brush springs were in great shape. They went in file 13 because I have way to many T-jet chassis.


sacrilege!
LOL
:wave:


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## Boosted-Z71

I have found a couple tools useful when trying to reshape the brush springs, first is a good set of tweezers, with a sharp pointed end, Second tool is made with a piece of 1/8" dia aluminum tubing about 3" long and a short section of flat style dental floss. I use the tubing as handle and then use the floss to make a short loop and stick the free ends of the floss into the handle and mash the tube to hold them tight, now you have a handle with a loop to help you hold and bend the spring back into shape. The loop tool also works very well to adjust the spring tension as required, as you can slide the loop very far back onto the spring to make the bend where you want it versus just at chassis edge where it usually bends at, or at least that has been my experience.

And 88T-Bird, Please do not ever throw away any T-jet chassis again, If you have some your dying to get rid of PM me and I will send you money to ship them to me. There are some of us crazy enough to attempt to fix anything T-jet. The car that I built that won Jim Sgrig's Drag competition, was built on a completely junk chassis, brush springs were toast, chassis was warped, bent, cut, you name and it had been done to it in the days past. But I machined, boiled and bored all the holes straight to allow it to live to race strong another day, and man it did.

Boosted


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## alpink

what boosted said. 
and, I saw that resurrected car make those passes at sgrigs place.
both of us were astonished.
.


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## Grandcheapskate

Boosted-Z71 said:


> I have found a couple tools useful when trying to reshape the brush springs...Boosted


 But this only has a chance of working if the brush springs haven't broken or lost so much tension that they no longer push on the brushes.

Gary,
I figured you might have to drill out the old rivet, but it's good to know there might be a screw small enough to use in its place.

I'm also thinking along the lines, as you mention, of slipping another piece of metal under the existing (but broken/worn) brush spring and shaping it so it completely covers the brush hole. Then use a brush spring ala a Magna-Traction.

Anyone ever glue the brush spring down to increase tension on a worn one? Would be nice to get some of that sticky stuff that never dries.

Joe


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## joegri

*other options*

sometimes after workin on a junker ya throw yer hands up in the air and say "#%$*F&$& and want to give up... dont just sit back and stare it it for a bit maybe even look around the HT pages for an inspireation it will come. i,m with the champ a.k.a. boosted there are a few not many options. first locate some rivetts (if you can) or if the brush holes are ok maybe go for the brass handling pan set up or a shunt wire chassis. or send it to me via boosted! there are some things you can do to get the old girl going again. infact i,m gonna visit the brass handling pan thread in the tunning section again. good luck grandcheapskate! you must live up to yer handle n fix what u got there! you can do it!


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## old blue

I have often thought what if I put a dot of glue halfway between the rivet and the brush hole to fasten down the bent brush spring? I can never straighten them out enough to give good tension again, what about effectively shortening the distance between the brush hole and where the spring is fastened? Discuss......

Old Blue


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## slotking

take 20k or smaller wire
i use the tyco pickup spring
slide it just past the weak point and push the spring downso there is a hump in it.

this adds tension to the spring


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## slotcarman12078

Since the chassis is almost a basket case anyways... You could try a soldering iron. Smear a little of the plastic next to the brush spring over it to hold it closer to the chassis. I've got a few chassis with weak springs.. I might try this idea myself!


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## Grandcheapskate

I haven't worked on the brush springs because I finally got some time to do something I've wanted to do for a while. I went through all my AFX and T-Jet runners and cataloged their specs. This was needed because most of the runners are cars I purchased used; all the new cars I've owned still have all their original parts. I cataloged the armature tip color, wire color (although being color blind it's impossible for me to tell green wire from red wire), resistance of each pole and magnet colors. Actually didn't take long at all, about 3 minutes per car.

Getting back to the brush springs. I was thinking about going out and buying a piece of brass stock which I would try placing either under or over (via soldering) the existing spring. Then I looked in my junk pile and there sat old, worn pickup shoes - the perfect replacement material.

There are actually two problems. One is the brush spring is broken at the brush hole (but the rest of the spring is there). Second is the entire brush spring is there, but it has lost it's tension. A third problem could be the brush spring is broke and it has also lost tension.

The weak brush spring could be attacked by trying to glue it down. If that works, at least you've made a useless chassis viable again.

Another attempt would be to cut a pickup shoe and get a piece which will basically be the same size as an unbroken brush spring. I will coat this piece of material with solder and try to attach it either under or over the existing brush spring without melting the plastic. If successful and the tension is good, I can either try bending the end of the metal into the brush hole or use an AFX MT brush spring. Brush springs should work because the entire bottom of the brush hole will be covered (like a Magna-Traction). If the tension is still poor, then the brush spring will need to be glued down.

Will a new piece of material under the existing brush spring bring back lost tension? Only a trial and error test will determine those results.

If you wanted to get more daring, you could drill a small hole in the chassis right above the brush springs and either (a) put a drop of glue through the hole to hold the brush spring or (b) try to tap a screw into the hole and brush spring and use the screw to hold down the brush spring. This might be a pretty cooll thing to try as it might give you adjustable brush tension.

However, I will be trying to fix this without any drilling of the chassis.

Thanks...Joe


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## slotking

the shoe may be to thick (stiff)
you want thinner material I think unless you just use a small piece in the center(front to back) of the spring


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## 88T-BIRD

If I had to repair one, I would cut the original spring back to about 1/16" from the rivet. Make a new brush spring out of bronze wiper material that I purchased back in the 1970s from a company call bronzeman. *Anyone remember them?* I think it's about 3.5 ths. thick, solder it underneath the original spring. If you do it right you should now have a spring in the correct postion that should be adjustable.

If you want to replace the complete spring with an original or make a new one, rivets are available in both copper and brass at metalclayfinding.


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## Mexkilbee

How I handle week springs is with dental floss or 2lb monofiliment line. with the chassis upside down in hobby vise I push a loop of line/floss into brush hole and "hook' brush tensioner, work it up towards the rivit (midway). holding the end @ the brush hole and carefully lift up on line to work the curl out of copper. Then bend/push back down tensioner @ the rivit. 
I also have a drill blank a hair smaller than brush hole. I hold spring down to chassis and push drill blank from bottom thru the brush hole which re-bends the tensioner @ edge of hole and makes it longer which in turn puts more pressure on brush.
doing these two things is usually good enough to get going but occasionally the copper has lost all spring and that is when i go to my flowable silicone i have for my tires. i will put a drop @ rivit and let it flow a little in trench (1/16" fom rivit, not more than half of tensioner, chassis is empty and brush tensioner is against chassis). let dry and its good to go. i have found that the cars that have this done run like a rapped ape, then they slow down sooner, brushes wear faster, car runs hotter. car goes from an enduro to a sprinter.
When springs are broken, it becomes a static display in my shop, I do have 20 or so AutoWorld rivits bought on ebay from hong kong, just have not been good at removing and instaling without butchering chassis to were it would go thru tech with out suspicion. i always wanted to unassemble two chassis and double up the springs on one chassis.


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## Joe65SkylarkGS

Ok, so Sgrig just had a successfull transplant. Here's what he did, he took all the metal of the bottom of a non mag AFX chassis and installed it on a T-Jet chassis. Thus you now have the nice flat surface for the brush to sit and run flat on the comm. Plus a lot more tension options. 

How bout it Sgrig, you have any pics for us?? Jim?? You out there??


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## sidejobjon

*Marty Thalison*



88T-BIRD said:


> If I had to repair one, I would cut the original spring back to about 1/16" from the rivet. Make a new brush spring out of bronze wiper material that I purchased back in the 1970s from a company call bronzeman. *Anyone remember them?* I think it's about 3.5 ths. thick, solder it underneath the original spring. If you do it right you should now have a spring in the correct postion that should be adjustable.
> 
> If you want to replace the complete spring with an original or make a new one, rivets are available in both copper and brass at metalclayfinding.


TBird,
I been trying to get some information about "BRONZEMAN" Marty Thalison.
I was reading a December 1970 car model mag, and they refered Marty to R&M car Service ,Not Bronzeman must have been a differant name bussines he had ,rewinding Arms, Dewinding, Adding Pat Dennis brush tubes, Pin mounting bodys.
Who Did the R stand for, Guess the M was for Marty Thalison? Did they make Brass Chassis i have one stamped R&M? Do you have anything from them? PM if you want to trade, Any info would be apprecated.
Thanks SJJ


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## Grandcheapskate

88T-BIRD said:


> If you want to replace the complete spring with an original or make a new one, rivets are available in both copper and brass at metalclayfinding.


 I took at quick look at this website and found the small rivets. Looks like less than $5 for a package of 50. The tool is expensive ($90), but I'm guessing there are rivet guns for much less.

Anyone know what size rivet (diameter and length) is needed for a T-Jet?

Thanks...Joe


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## tjetsgrig

Ok, I've got no pics of the "transplant", but it's an easy operation! I'll get the size and brand of the rivets I use and check in later! The rivets I'm using are for RC airplanes, no gun needed, just stake the rivets from the inside with chassis sitting on an anvil ( wheels must be removed ).

JS


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## 88T-BIRD

sidejobjon said:


> TBird,
> I been trying to get some information about "BRONZEMAN" Marty Thalison.
> I was reading a December 1970 car model mag, and they refered Marty to R&M car Service ,Not Bronzeman must have been a differant name bussines he had ,rewinding Arms, Dewinding, Adding Pat Dennis brush tubes, Pin mounting bodys.
> Who Did the R stand for, Guess the M was for Marty Thalison? Did they make Brass Chassis i have one stamped R&M? Do you have anything from them? PM if you want to trade, Any info would be apprecated.
> Thanks SJJ


The old recover system doesn't work as well as it use to. I remember purchasing, as a dealer, a lot of pre-cut bronze wipers, front wheels, TCP tires, and clear plastic bodies.


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## slotking

look forward to the info
gome some chassis I put to the side cause they were fast but need help! LOL

do they look like the org rivets?


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## Grandcheapskate

Seems to me the weak link of the pancake chassis is the brush springs, especially on the T-Jet and standard AFX. It might have been a better design had the metal used for the brush spring been thicker and less prone to either bending or losing tension. Certainly the design of the Magna-Traction brush springs appears to be an improvement.

But then again, I'll bet no one though they would last for over 50 years and still be going strong.

Joe


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## Grandcheapskate

Any tips on how (and what to use) to cut a pickup shoe lengthwise? I need to do this in order to try fitting it over a brush spring.

Thanks...Joe


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## slotking

I would put it in a vise long ways, then sand it down to size


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## 88T-BIRD

In case anyone is interested, Auto World is now selling T-jet and Xtraction parts. They list T-jet chassis springs left and right sides, and rivets.


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## slotking

would be nice if he had copper ones for the t-jet


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## Grandcheapskate

88T-BIRD said:


> In case anyone is interested, Auto World is now selling T-jet and Xtraction parts. They list T-jet chassis springs left and right sides, and rivets.


 Maybe it's because I'm a cheapskate, but those prices seem high if the intent was to sell bulk parts.

And what is a "connector plate"?

Thanks...Joe


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## slotking

the part that the shoe hooks onto

I think


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## 88T-BIRD

Grandcheapskate said:


> Maybe it's because I'm a cheapskate, but those prices seem high if the intent was to sell bulk parts.
> 
> And what is a "connector plate"?
> 
> Thanks...Joe


 A small package that contains 6 parts are not consider bulk, 5000 + pieces in one package is the amount were you usually get a good price break.


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## Grandcheapskate

88T-BIRD said:


> A small package that contains 6 parts are not consider bulk, 5000 + pieces in one package is the amount were you usually get a good price break.


 You are right of course. So there may still be a need for large bulk bags (100-200+) of parts at a good price.

As to the connector plate, if Slotking is right, how often does that part actually need replacing? Would have been much better off suppling the T-Jet brush springs.

Joe


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## 88T-BIRD

Grandcheapskate said:


> You are right of course. So there may still be a need for large bulk bags (100-200+) of parts at a good price.
> 
> As to the connector plate, if Slotking is right, how often does that part actually need replacing? Would have been much better off suppling the T-Jet brush springs.
> 
> Joe


If you look at the enlarged picture of the right and left connector plates they are the brush springs. I have no idea why they call them that?


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## Ralphthe3rd

*Thanks for the Heads-up on the Auto World Chassis parts, this is Really GOOD NEWS !*
























AW T-Jet Parts Page Link


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## slotcarman12078

It's about time springs and rivets were easily accessible! Sad they aren't in a bigger quantity and a little cheaper. Now the really big question... will the rivets work with Aurora T jets? It would be a total bummer if they were one size too small diameter-wise.


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## tjd241

Part Number PSCTJ-027... would make nice exhaust pipes and/or carb stacks.


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## 88T-BIRD

slotcarman12078 said:


> It's about time springs and rivets were easily accessible! Sad they aren't in a bigger quantity and a little cheaper. Now the really big question... will the rivets work with Aurora T jets? It would be a total bummer if they were one size too small diameter-wise.


If enough people would contact them, maybe they might make a larger quanity available, but keep in mind that for most people a small pack in more than enough. 
I ordered some of there parts and will let eveyone know when I get my hands on them. 
One thing to remember, is, these parts are made for the Auto World cars, not the original Aurora T-jet, so they might not fit with out a little modification.


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## 88T-BIRD

Received my Auto World parts order today, everything looked great. The rivets are just a little smaller, OD wise than a Aurora T-jet, about 4-5 ths. The length looks just right, IMO they should work. I will give them a try but need to make a tool first.


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## slotking

> ID wise than a Aurora T-jet, about 4-5 ths.


how does the OD compare?


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## Grandcheapskate

88T-BIRD said:


> Received my Auto World parts order today, everything looked great. The rivets are just a little smaller, ID wise than a Aurora T-jet, about 4-5 ths. The length looks just right, IMO they should work. I will give them a try but need to make a tool first.


Which parts did you get?


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## 88T-BIRD

Grandcheapskate said:


> Which parts did you get?


Rivets, R/L T-jet chassis brush springs.


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## 88T-BIRD

slotking said:


> how does the OD compare?


The small difference in the shaft size really isn't going to matter, the heads of the rivet is what holds the spring/plate to the chassis. It looks like there is plenty of rivet to make the second head.


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## Grandcheapskate

88T-BIRD said:


> Rivets, R/L T-jet chassis brush springs.


I will be real interested to see how replacing the brush springs works out for you. Looks to cost around $3 in parts per chassis if you do both sides (and don't break anything). Might be on the high side (price-wise) when you compare that to being able to buy a bare NOS Aurora chassis for $3.50.

Although bringing an old chassis back to life is its own reward.

Thanks...Joe


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## Joe65SkylarkGS

Grandcheapskate said:


> I will be real interested to see how replacing the brush springs works out for you. Looks to cost around $3 in parts per chassis if you do both sides (and don't break anything). Might be on the high side (price-wise) when you compare that to being able to buy a bare NOS Aurora chassis for $3.50.
> 
> Although bringing an old chassis back to life is its own reward.
> 
> Thanks...Joe


Problem being, the new parts arent copper, theyre silver. So its not like you can't notice the change. Sadly. Am i correct? Are the new parts silver??


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## slotcarman12078

I'm 99.9 % sure they are exactly the same parts you would find on an AW T jet. Silver plated springs and rivets.


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## slotking

looking at the pics, they look nickel plated


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## alpink

all of Auto World's electrical parts for pancake powered cars are nickel plated giving the illusion of silver plating but not as expensive nor corrosion threatened.


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## slotcarman12078

I wasn't saying they were silver plated in the literal sense, simply as a color reference as opposed to an Aurora being brass or copper colored.


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## Grandcheapskate

Whichever material is used in the AW replacement parts, shouldn't you be able to combine it with the existing copper of original T-Jet chassis and have it work? Even if you mixed the copper with either silver, cooper or nickel plated, it should have no negative effects...should it (other than in appearance)?

Thanks...Joe


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## slotking

what!
if you mix copper & nickel plated parts on the same car and then run electricity through them, the chemical reactions could cause a small thermal nuclear explosion and kill thousands of HO army men!

do you want that on your hands?

should not matter unless you belong to some t-jet group that does not allow it!

but on the other hand, the nickel plated stuff should maintain some good tension


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## 88T-BIRD

Joe65SkylarkGS said:


> Problem being, the new parts arent copper, theyre silver. So its not like you can't notice the change. Sadly. Am i correct? Are the new parts silver??


These parts are for the Auto World cars not the original Aurora T-jet. The Auto World springs don't look like silver to me, more like some type of nickel/chrome.


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## alpink

if they fit auto world chassis they will fit Aurora t-jet, wildones, tuffones chassis.


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## 88T-BIRD

alpink said:


> if they fit auto world chassis they will fit Aurora t-jet, wildones, tuffones chassis.


The Auto World chassis are just a little longer than a original Aurora T-jet chassis. I will be checking the Auto World springs out today to see how well they fit in a original Aurora chassis.


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## 88T-BIRD

Just finished installing Auto World brush springs on a friends Aurora t-jet chassis. Not a perfect fit but they will work.


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## Grandcheapskate

88T-BIRD said:


> Just finished installing Auto World brush springs on a friends Aurora t-jet chassis. Not a perfect fit but they will work.


 What is it about them that is different? Length of the brush spring?

And how did the process go? What steps did you take to remove the old springs and install the new ones? Would you do it again?

Did you have to remove all four rivets, or just two?

Thanks...Joe


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## 88T-BIRD

Grandcheapskate said:


> What is it about them that is different? Length of the brush spring? *The Auto World springs fit in the Aurora chassis, but the part that goes in the brush hole was off center. With a little work one could get them to fit perfect. *
> 
> And how did the process go? What steps did you take to remove the old springs and install the new ones? Would you do it again? *I drilled out the old rivets (4), work slow you don't want to drill more than the rivet. If you find a loose one you can use a old drill bit to hold the other end, if it's a solid rivet I would cut a slot in it and hold it with a screw driver.*
> 
> Did you have to remove all four rivets, or just two? *Two per spring.*
> 
> Thanks...Joe


*I made a punch type tool to install the rivets, I had to use a small dead blow hammer, because I don't own a press any more. *
*I have a few Aurora and JL chassis that I need to repair, so yes I will do more. I have a box full of defective Aurora T-jet chassis that I can use for parts! *
*A plus with purchasing the Auto World parts is I now know how long the rivets need to be!*


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## alpink

88T-Bird, yep and there are other places to get rivets. type rivets in the search box above and select "posts" there are some links available here I think.


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## Grandcheapskate

88T-BIRD said:


> *I made a punch type tool to install the rivets, I had to use a small dead blow hammer, because I don't own a press any more. *
> *I have a few Aurora and JL chassis that I need to repair, so yes I will do more. I have a box full of defective Aurora T-jet chassis that I can use for parts! *
> *A plus with purchasing the Auto World parts is I now know how long the rivets need to be!*


Thank you T-Bird for being the first to try and for posting the results.

So I assume you keep the original piece of the electricals for the pickup shoe hook and the replacement piece goes from under that to the brush holes?

You mentioned back in post #16 a place which sells small rivets. I checked them out in post #20, but I didn't know the size I would need. Now that you have the answer, the envelope please....

Thanks...Joe


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## 88T-BIRD

Grandcheapskate said:


> Thank you T-Bird for being the first to try and for posting the results.
> 
> So I assume you keep the original piece of the electricals for the pickup shoe hook and the replacement piece goes from under that to the brush holes?
> 
> You mentioned back in post #16 a place which sells small rivets. I checked them out in post #20, but I didn't know the size I would need. Now that you have the answer, the envelope please....
> 
> Thanks...Joe


1/16 OD X 3/32 length, thin head .015.


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## Grandcheapskate

88T-BIRD said:


> 1/16 OD X 3/32 length, thin head .015.


I just looked at the metalclayfindings website and they have rivets in the correct OD and length in silver, aluminum, copper and brass. No mention of head size. I'm guessing copper would be the material of choice? If so, would this be the rivet to get? Less than $5 for a package of 50.

http://www.metalclayfindings.com/product/2900691.aspx

Also, did you take a measurement of the thickness of the "connection" piece?

And a question for the masses - are the Aurora T-Jet electricals brass or copper? I'm thinking copper.

Thanks...Joe


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## 88T-BIRD

They look like brass to me. copper would be more red, of course brass has a lot of copper in it, I'm thinking around 60+ percent.

I would go with the brass rivet, it will hold better. 

I checked the thickness of both chassis and plates and they were almost the same. The Aurora plate was just a few ths thicker, but not enough to make any difference.


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## sidejobjon

*link sealing pliers*

Maybe on to something here. I`am a Carpentar by trade turned Construction super. The other day was putting a key cabinet togeather & look what i stumbled upon, love finding tool/or something that could be used for slots.
Was a lund key cabinet, if link don`t work its called a link sealing pliers. And the one piece open loop brass key tags #508-A the hole is same size as a TJet open rivet . The pin in pliers fits a tjet open rivet only test so far. Looks like jaw is wide enough to go around a chassis.


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