# B-9 Kit Problems



## LGFugate (Sep 11, 2000)

I've got a few problems/questions on the B-9 kit, and I hope others will post theirs here, too.

My biggest problem so far is the joints in the two halves of each foot. I was extremely careful in lining the parts up when gluing, but both feet have a really vicious "step" in one seam. A friend building his B-9 is having the same problem. Is anyone else? I've sanded it down far enough to become concerned that I'm thinning the plastic too much, and then even putty (one coat) has not helped.

Also, when the soil sampler tube is inserted in the door, the door is kept open becasue the weight of the tube above the door unbalances it. If I leave the bottom plate off that foot, I can reach in and slide the tube down so it latches the door from the inside, or slide it up to clear the door so it will open. What's your experience?

On the other hand, I've found Krylon Bright Silver to be a good match for the flat aluminum color of most of his exterior.

Larry


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

LGFugate said:


> I've got a few problems/questions on the B-9 kit, and I hope others will post theirs here, too.
> 
> My biggest problem so far is the joints in the two halves of each foot. I was extremely careful in lining the parts up when gluing, but both feet have a really vicious "step" in one seam. A friend building his B-9 is having the same problem. Is anyone else? I've sanded it down far enough to become concerned that I'm thinning the plastic too much, and then even putty (one coat) has not helped.
> 
> ...


I started with my tread section first and had absolutely no fit problems. The seams sanded completely smooth, so much so that a few of the seams disappeared after sanding.

The only "problem" I encountered was the that someone in China must have taken their finger off the injection button and the area below my soil sampler door did not form completely. I laminated 3 layers of plastic to the contour of the foot and trimmed out the bad section to accept my patch. Easy fix!!

As for the soil sampler, I sanded mine down to it would slide without resistance. I then built a box for the inside of the foot, with the bottom of the box creating a new stop for the door when closed. To keep the tube from sliding out the top of the holder and rattling around uselessly inside the foot, I cut a thin and I mean *THIN*, piece of styrene and glued it around near the bottom of the sampler to act as a stop. (I know the ring around the soil sample tube is not "Screen Accurate", but we only saw it twice and it was different both times so I wasn't concerned about that!) Now all I need to do is push it back up and close the door. The looseness of the fit then allows the tube to drop down enough to counter balance the door and keep it closed. The fact that the floor of the box is raised above the opening of the door prevents the tube from sealing the door shut.


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## irishtrek (Sep 17, 2005)

When I glued the foot pieces there was no 'step' in the seam, and as for the soil sampler I left it off and just glued the door shut.


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## woof359 (Apr 27, 2003)

*tread masking*

looks like masking the treads are going to be the hardest part, I was thinking of getting some thin styrene, adding blocks on top to make new treads and cutting tube to make wheels then cut free the molded on treads


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

woof359 said:


> looks like masking the treads are going to be the hardest part, I was thinking of getting some thin styrene, adding blocks on top to make new treads and cutting tube to make wheels then cut free the molded on treads


 Did you assemble it all before painting?


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## irishtrek (Sep 17, 2005)

Wish it came with separate treads like they did with the chariot.


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

irishtrek said:


> Wish it came with separate treads like they did with the chariot.


Speaking of the Chariot, as I was working on my tread section this morning, I noticed something about the design concept for the Robot. The tread section shape closely mimics the profile of the front half of the Chariot, while the clear collar and even the red and yellow "ears" clearly have the shape of the Jupiter 2. A very unifying design to the already existing technology from the pilot. I wonder if this was intended?!


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## Lou Dalmaso (Jul 13, 2004)

I plan on replacing my soil sampler with a bit of aluminum tube. two less seams to worry about. also take a dremel to the tip to make the teeth


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

irishtrek said:


> Wish it came with separate treads like they did with the chariot.


Not having separate treads and wheels on a kit this big is an astounding kludge.


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

RSN said:


> Speaking of the Chariot, as I was working on my tread section this morning, I noticed something about the design concept for the Robot. The tread section shape closely mimics the profile of the front half of the Chariot, while the clear collar and even the red and yellow "ears" clearly have the shape of the Jupiter 2. A very unifying design to the already existing technology from the pilot. I wonder if this was intended?!


Interesting idea- I would not be surprised to find out it was intentional...


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

RSN said:


> I started with my tread section first and had absolutely no fit problems. The seams sanded completely smooth, so much so that a few of the seams disappeared after sanding.
> 
> The only "problem" I encountered was the that someone in China must have taken their finger off the injection button and the area below my soil sampler door did not form completely. I laminated 3 layers of plastic to the contour of the foot and trimmed out the bad section to accept my patch. Easy fix!!
> 
> As for the soil sampler, I sanded mine down to it would slide without resistance. I then built a box for the inside of the foot, with the bottom of the box creating a new stop for the door when closed. To keep the tube from sliding out the top of the holder and rattling around uselessly inside the foot, I cut a thin and I mean *THIN*, piece of styrene and glued it around near the bottom of the sampler to act as a stop. (I know the ring around the soil sample tube is not "Screen Accurate", but we only saw it twice and it was different both times so I wasn't concerned about that!) Now all I need to do is push it back up and close the door. The looseness of the fit then allows the tube to drop down enough to counter balance the door and keep it closed. The fact that the floor of the box is raised above the opening of the door prevents the tube from sealing the door shut.


This sounds ike a good solution but I got lost half way through your description. Could you please draw out something I could use as a reference...


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

Richard Baker said:


> This sounds ike a good solution but I got lost half way through your description. Could you please draw out something I could use as a reference...


I will work one up.


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

Here is a quick sketch I did of my soil sampler modifications that goes with my above text. The red is the existing kit parts for the door and sampler and the green is the box I built for it. The black represents the tread box. As you can see, the bottom green line is halfway between the red door piece and the black of the tread box. This allows the tube to drop down and counterbalance closed and does not "lock" the hatch shut from the inside. The green line on the sampler is the STOP block I added so it stays in the slot. You can see it, sort of, in the blurry picture of the assembly.

Do not use this any reference to construct from as it is not scaled, it is only a clarification reference, do the measurements on your kit to assure a good fit. Hope the helps and does not muddy the waters!


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

Thanks RSN.


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

Not sure what happened. I uploaded the wrong graphic, after I deleted it, it would not let me upload the right one in that reply. Here is the correct one with the green STOP ring on the tube.

A pleasure to share!!


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## OzyMandias (Dec 29, 2004)

Aside from the programming buttons, the production problems all seem to be below the waist, so to speak.


Those tread section seams are a major pain in the Glute to get rid of. I've had to putty and sand five times and just now got them down to the point of almost invisible without compromising the structural integrity of the parts. 

The locating pins for the inside facing side panels are off kilter. I managed to get one fitting perfectly, but had to cut the locating pins off the other.

Also the 'bumper pins' and sockets to tie the two tread sections together don't line up when the inside panels are correctly placed. You'll have to remove them or cut the pins and reglue them in the proper location once you have the tread sections buttoned up.

A guideline for the orientation of the knee bellows would have been tremendously helpful too. I had a lot of trouble getting the knee hinges vertical and knee plates lining up because of the (correctly) irregular shape of the bellows.

The instructions also don't tell you which side of the waist plate is the front. It's the side with the leg bellows alignment that curves in, not the flat side.

The square programming buttons and bubbles is the other big pain to resolve. Nothing really works to remove the shadow caused by the bubbles except replacing them altogether.

I have a feeling that the tread sections were designed in the way they were to:
a) Allow that sprue to be a double up, saving cost.
b) Making provision for removing the molded plastic treads and wheels and replacing them with functional treads.
c) Adding the treads and wheels as separate parts in the kit would have pushed the part count up a lot and cost as well. Customizers won't have any hesitation in diving in with a Dremel and razor saw to eliminate the cast parts.


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

A kit with no issues to attend to is a waste of creative time IMO.


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## OzyMandias (Dec 29, 2004)

We have been spoiled by the tremendous advances in design and manufacture of plastic kits today. So long as every company strives to improve their product and minimise problems, we cant ask much more. 

I console myself by remembering what the Robot kit looked like when Aurora released it!


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

Took me about an hour to remove the seams on my tread sections. They lined up with no stepping to the seams, they were all even on both sides. Cleaning seams on a model is a common part of the hobby, not really a "problem" to me.


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

OzyMandias said:


> I console myself by remembering what the Robot kit looked like when Aurora released it!


It was pretty darn good for those times. I still remember frantically seeking out the last of those kits in the early Seventies...

I am so old.:freak:


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

RSN said:


> Took me about an hour to remove the seams on my tread sections. They lined up with no stepping to the seams, they were all even on both sides. Cleaning seams on a model is a common part of the hobby, not really a "problem" to me.


Yeah, strange seam. But a walk in the styrene park to fix.


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## OzyMandias (Dec 29, 2004)

It seems like there is a certain amount of variation in the fit of the treadsection parts. I've seen posts from members here saying that all their parts fit perfectly, and others citing the removal of the inner sidepanel pins on one or both. 

I test fit all of the parts carefully before starting any assembly of the TS, and only had to cut the pins from one sidepanel. The two halves of each treadsection on my kit went together with a serious 'step' to remove. 

Yes, I _know_ it's part of the process of building a kit, but I just found it a little odd that most everything on this kit was so well engineered, and the fit of these parts is not as well done. Just an observation.

Oh, one other tiny detail to point out, for those sticklers to detail wanting to correct it. The circuit board in the power pack is upside down. With the triangle of Phono Plugs (two protruding through the cover, one above does not) pointing upwards, the dark green connector end of the frame should point towards the Robot's front, not the back.


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

OzyMandias said:


> It seems like there is a certain amount of variation in the fit of the treadsection parts. I've seen posts from members here saying that all their parts fit perfectly, and others citing the removal of the inner sidepanel pins on one or both.
> 
> I test fit all of the parts carefully before starting any assembly of the TS, and only had to cut the pins from one sidepanel. The two halves of each treadsection on my kit went together with a serious 'step' to remove.
> 
> ...


I think the same problem occurred with the Polar Lights 1/350 Enterprise kit. The early kits had parts the were different from kit to kit. I believe the explanation there was not in the engineering of the kit, but rather some part trees were being removed from the molds too early and not cooling properly. This was done to get product out and quality control was not the priority in China. I imagine that is the same here with the early issues of the robot kit.


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## OzyMandias (Dec 29, 2004)

RSN said:


> I think the same problem occurred with the Polar Lights 1/350 Enterprise kit. The early kits had parts the were different from kit to kit. I believe the explanation there was not in the engineering of the kit, but rather some part trees were being removed from the molds too early and not cooling properly. This was done to get product out and quality control was not the priority in China. I imagine that is the same here with the early issues of the robot kit.


I'm sure you are spot on there RSN. Given the fact that the parts having problems are all on the same sprue, and some of those parts are the thickest styrene I think I've ever seen, it makes the most sense. Cooling times would certainly play a part as the thickness of parts across the tread sprue varies dramatically, making cooling time uneven.

I'm certainly don't mean to sound overly critical of the kit. I really love it! Frank and the team went out of their way to include some of the smallest details to make this an incredibly accurate reproduction of the Hero Robot. They've included things I honestly never expected to see on the kit, and that has impressed the hell out of me. 

I will certainly be buying more of these including one or two to tuck away in my horde should my completed kit ever be damaged or lost. Now that I've got one, I don't think I'd ever want to be without it.


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## Fiver (Aug 30, 2002)

OzyMandias said:


> I'm certainly don't mean to sound overly critical of the kit. I really love it! Frank and the team went out of their way to include some of the smallest details to make this an incredibly accurate reproduction of the Hero Robot. They've included things I honestly never expected to see on the kit, and that has impressed the hell out of me.


 Mirroring this sentiment before proceeding; My test fit revealed the same problems with the tread section. I'm confident that removing pins and gluing with line of sight will correct a lot of it but the biggest issue I have is that the blow molded leg section pulls the two tread sections too far apart when installed. I've tried reversing the parts hoping it would improve the fit but it doesn't really help. The problem (at least on my kit) is that the holes for the tread section are too far apart and because it's molded as a solid piece in between the legs; there is no way to trim anything or push the legs closer together to close the distance without ruining the look of the piece itself. I hope that made sense...:freak: Anyone else have this issue?

Thanks and Cheers!

Fiver


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## OzyMandias (Dec 29, 2004)

Fiver, have you got the upper knee plates (the ones that sit below the legs and are pinned to the waist plate) with the curvy side inward? I put them the other way round by accident when I was doing a stack up and it threw the legs way out.

Having said that the knee sections down on my kit really want to try and sit further apart than they should. Once I have opened up the parts inside for running wiring I'm going to glue the tread and knee sections together and clamp everything square and leave it for a day, so it all (hopefully) will end up right.


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

OzyMandias said:


> We have been spoiled by the tremendous advances in design and manufacture of plastic kits today. So long as every company strives to improve their product and minimise problems, we cant ask much more.
> 
> I console myself by remembering what the Robot kit looked like when Aurora released it!


Sadly the Aurora kit, while less accurate in some details, was better engineered in the feet area than the new kit.


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

djnick66 said:


> Sadly the Aurora kit, while less accurate in some details, was better engineered in the feet area than the new kit.


Well, in the OLD days artists had to engineer the moulds as well. Everything done by hand. You necessarily lose some of that genius when computers come into play- it's just gonna happen.


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## Fiver (Aug 30, 2002)

OzyMandias said:


> Fiver, have you got the upper knee plates (the ones that sit below the legs and are pinned to the waist plate) with the curvy side inward? I put them the other way round by accident when I was doing a stack up and it threw the legs way out.
> 
> Having said that the knee sections down on my kit really want to try and sit further apart than they should. Once I have opened up the parts inside for running wiring I'm going to glue the tread and knee sections together and clamp everything square and leave it for a day, so it all (hopefully) will end up right.


 As I said; so far I've only done a test fit but I did indeed make certain everything was where it was supposed to be. I'm going to do the same thing...possibly even try heating the part in warm water to reposition it. 

We shall see...

Pax,

Fiver


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## Josellas (May 20, 2004)

Hi guys, In aligning the booties of the robot I had to eyeball it, then I used exclusively, applications of Testors White putty for the smoothing of the gaps between the pieces.Sanding and patience for multiple applications was a requirement. It turned out very good in the long run.
As for the soil sampler, I sanded the sides down a bit on the tube and then after painting it Krylon Metallic Matte Aluminum,I put a thin coat of vaseline on it. It made it a lot easier to slide in and out.Yes, the boots took a long time in assembly and painting, but it all turned out very well.


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## Tiberious (Nov 20, 2001)

How is everyone doing with the bubble? A friend told me the seam was bad but I thought this had been minimized. Got mine on order but a build is a long way off. 

Tib


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## OzyMandias (Dec 29, 2004)

Tib, I'm nowhere near buttoning up the bubble yet, but I have cleaned up the injection points, which I think were way thicker than they needed to be, leaving a couple of ugly scars on the edges of the parts.

The seam however, is a very neat, snug fit, but it's still a seam in the middle of clear styrene. It's going to show up regardless of what you do. 
That is unless somebody has a trick up their sleeve that I don't know about for hiding things like this?


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

Eventually someone will produce a seamless replacement bubble but I am not going to wait for it.

Thanks so much RSN for the sampler info- I will be making mine that way I think.

Every kit I have ever built has had some issue with it- that is just the way things are and finding a way to work around them is all part of the build. The premature release of parts before they are fully ready seems to be a consistent problem, as mentioned above the Chinese are more concerned with volume rather than quality. 

Still, this kit is correct in proportions and designed for people to enhance like all other Moebius products. The Aurora kit is 'close enough' for the era it was created in, but after all these years I finally have the kit I have been waiting for...


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

The bubble issue has been beaten to death. There is not a practical way to produce a seamless bubble that you can fit the kit interior parts into. Period. 

The molding points on the kit bubble can be carefully worked down (clear plastic is brittle) and then sanded smooth. The areas can the be polished up nice and clear again. A dip in Pledge/Future will make the halves brighter and more clear than ever.


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

My intention was not to raise the problems with the two piece bubble- I followed all the discussions about that issue before. I also remember some people had some interesting ideas as to create a one piece unit- none of them would be practical for Moebius or mass production.
We living in an age where almost every kit has multiple enhancements to choose from, it is only a matter of deciding how far to take it and what you prefer to cobble together on your own.
One thing I do know for certain- if there is a need/market for something somebody will meet that need.


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## Tiberious (Nov 20, 2001)

Don't feel bad, NOBODY in this thread blasted Moebius, you simply answered my question involving how the final product turned out. Unfortunately too many people want to dictate whether or not a discussion has merit when it has nothing to do with them. Contribute? Great! Otherwise move on! Anyhow thanks again, I know what to expect now and will deal with it!

Tib


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## Josellas (May 20, 2004)

*Bubble*

I agree. Some one in the after market realm will undoubtably produce a seamless bubble for this cool model. In the meantime I'll have to enjoy the same direction that Lunar Models took on their incarnation of the robot's clear piece.


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## Fiver (Aug 30, 2002)

Wow!

Beautiful build, Josellas :thumbsup:

This has been said before but it's worth repeating. THIS is an exceptional kit no matter how you build it. In fact, I haven't really seen a build that didn't look fantastic.

"What's next, Riddley?"

Pax,

Fiver


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## kitkarma (May 17, 2013)

Here is my solution for the tread section seams. I re-skined the surface with .10 mil plastic sheet. Twenty-five minutes to install,.......a lifetime of sanding and blending saved !


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

Nice!


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## Josellas (May 20, 2004)

*B9 Legs*

Here are a few more shots of the B9 build.Airbrushed with acrylic Tamiya Metallic Grey on the legs and arms.


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## model-ologist (Mar 9, 2014)

They do look better painted.. Nice


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## OzyMandias (Dec 29, 2004)

Josellas, your build looks beautiful. I've just spent a week soaking and scrubbing the flaking Tamiya paint off the legs and arms on my kit. I take it you haven't had the same problem?


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## Josellas (May 20, 2004)

OzyMandias,
No, I didn't run into that flaking problem.I did wash the legs and arms in warm water and dish soap as I am sure you did.I also wiped down the parts with 70% alcohol purchased from the local pharmacy.When I airbrushed the pieces I thinned the Tamiya acrylic with the same alcohol rather than water or their thinner.
That same alcohol does loosen up the acrylic enough to scrub with a tooth brush or wipe it off when one needs to.
Oh and thanks for the kind comments Model-ologist.


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## OzyMandias (Dec 29, 2004)

Yep, I followed your recipe, except for the Alcohol, but the parts were ultra dry and free from as much surface residue as I could detect. Wished I had thought of the alcohol!

The paint on my parts was terrific for 48 hours or so, then I picked the lower section up and squeezed the legs a bit as I did. Flake city! It was snowing grey all over my workbench.

Now that I almost have them clean again, I'm going to leave them unpainted. A pleasant byproduct of the scrubbing with toothbrush and detergent is that they have lost a lot of their 'greasy shine'.

You have really nailed the colours! He looks just like the original!


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## OzyMandias (Dec 29, 2004)

kitkarma said:


> Here is my solution for the tread section seams. I re-skined the surface with .10 mil plastic sheet. Twenty-five minutes to install,.......a lifetime of sanding and blending saved !


Nice fix kitkarma! My full size tread section has the same treatment in .50 sheet...


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## Josellas (May 20, 2004)

OzyMandias,Cool on how your B9's vinyl turned out this time. Do you plan to work on another one, maybe make it a different season B9?
I personally always really liked the unitarian look of the first season, but I have had to build a number of these robots in different sizes and it seems the color decided on was always 2nd or 3rd season.I guess it's more visually exciting for the person requesting it.
Thanks for the nice comment on the build.


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## OzyMandias (Dec 29, 2004)

Call Me Ozy or Bruce, it's easier on the fingers... 
I actually plan on buying another two or three of these over the next 12 months. 
I agree with you and will probably do one of them up in Season 1 livery. 

I'm going to completely kit bash one and motorise it, and put as much into it as possible that the hero suit was capable of doing. I actually had it in mind to do one as a Bob May Half in/ half out vignette. I'm still brainstorming, but the full remote control autonomous version is definitely on my radar. 

This current version will have to stand on a permanent base if I can't make the Voodoo Child board fit inside. I had already elected to do a Magnetic Lock, illuminated floorplate, but you beat me to it! Nice:thumbsup:


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## OzyMandias (Dec 29, 2004)

Hey Guys, I'm having a certain amount of difficulty with aligning the treadsection and knee bellows in order to make the knee hinges vertical.

I've got the bellows oriented so that the wider sections are at the top, and angled inwards from top to bottom in order to bring the treadsection halves together. with the knee hinges dead vertical, I have a 5mm gap between the two halves which looks wrong. I've flipped the bellows and rotated them to in case one orientation works better, but I can't get rid of the 5mm gap!

Has anyone had the same problem, and if so how did you resolve it?


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## Josellas (May 20, 2004)

Hi Ozy, I'm not too sure if I follow you correctly,I think I know what you mean but the bellows compress once you apply the other portion of the main body atop it and glue the inner struts.The one I built leg bellows were not trimmed very straight but the compression camoflaged it nicely.


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## Gary K (Aug 26, 2002)

OzyMandias said:


> Hey Guys, I'm having a certain amount of difficulty with aligning the treadsection and knee bellows in order to make the knee hinges vertical.
> 
> I've got the bellows oriented so that the wider sections are at the top, and angled inwards from top to bottom in order to bring the treadsection halves together. with the knee hinges dead vertical, I have a 5mm gap between the two halves which looks wrong. I've flipped the bellows and rotated them to in case one orientation works better, but I can't get rid of the 5mm gap!
> 
> Has anyone had the same problem, and if so how did you resolve it?


I'm not sure if this is what you're referring to, but the tops of the knee hinges are supposed to angle outwards at an angle of 3.5-degrees from vertical to match the original suit. I suspect that the hinges were oriented vertically when the Robot was originally supposed to walk, but then became angled when the tread sections were moved closer to one another and were bolted together.

Gary


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## steve123 (Feb 9, 2009)

I know there is no cross talk between the various threads..but if you have trouble with something, look to a thread by a builder who does alot of kits. 
The legs fit ok but they need a nudge. I used heavy cans to hold the vinyl parts untill the slow setting white glue locked them all together.









Steve


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## OzyMandias (Dec 29, 2004)

Thanks for the replies guys, it was a bit hard to explain clearly.

Gary K, thanks! I think you've answered the question for me. I didn't know about the 3.5 degree cant of the hinges. That explains why the knee bellows don't hang straight down from the top knee plate to the bottom knee plate, but are drawn in on an angle towards the centre line of the treadsection.

Gary, one more question specifically for you if you don't mind, as I know you and Greg Jein had a lot of input on this model (for which I am eternally grateful given the accuracy of the kit!); 

The kit knee bellow concertinas run from 'far apart' at one horizontal open end to 'close together' at the other. Did you guys have a specific orientation in mind with this? I had thought that the wider concertinas would be at the top as the rubber would have stretched from the top knee plate and squished together towards the bottom. Is that correct?

Thanks again Guys! :thumbsup:


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## Gary K (Aug 26, 2002)

OzyMandias said:


> Gary, one more question specifically for you if you don't mind, as I know you and Greg Jein had a lot of input on this model (for which I am eternally grateful given the accuracy of the kit!);


You should also thank Mike Joyce of the B9 Builder's Club. I was able to purchase one of his high-quality castings of the torso, which was directly derived from the original horsehair molds, and the kit's torso is based on that.



OzyMandias said:


> The kit knee bellow concertinas run from 'far apart' at one horizontal open end to 'close together' at the other. Did you guys have a specific orientation in mind with this? I had thought that the wider concertinas would be at the top as the rubber would have stretched from the top knee plate and squished together towards the bottom. Is that correct?


You are correct. The "knee bellows" were measured off a symmetrical fiberglass casting (made for the stunt Robot, I believe), and then they were distorted to match the sagging & angled rubber bellows in high-res publicity photos.

Gary


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