# A parade of spaceships...



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

A little something non Trek and to keep myself into a different kind of modelling. And, yes, I'm still working on the TOS shuttlecraft.

Awhile ago I picked up the wonderful _Spaceship Handbook_ reference book as well as its companion _The Saucer Fleet._ My imagination was stirred by quite a few of those ships. In truth I know I will never have actual physical models of all those ships although I believe I will build kits of perhaps a handful of them.

That said there is nothing stopping me from making 3D models of the ones I find most interesting and appealing. Certainly one of them will be the Rocketship _Galileo_ which I can't help but notice looks like it could have inspired Space Ghost's _Phantom Cruiser._


Starting off this parade will be the Spaceship _Friede_ (pronounced Freeda) from Fritz Lang's 1929 film _Die Frau im Mond_ (The Woman in the Moon). I find this ship interesting for two reasons. Firstly, of course, I simply like the look of it. It has an elemental look without looking silly. Secondly is learning how much thought actually went into its design. While its depiction onscreen might be charming by today's standards it actually got a lot of basic ideas right. And when the creators make that much effort even if they do take some creative licence (the essence of good SF I think) then you can forgive a lot.

Here's a scan of the model/ship from the _Spaceship Handbook_ and it's from this I'll be working. It's interesting to note that like so many other fictional spacecraft that will follow in ensuing decades that there were differences between the filming miniature and the fullsize mockup used---and we have certainly seen that happen time and time again. 










Stay tuned...


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

Here's a beginning.










I've got to add windows and hatches and painting. There is also all those exhaust nozzles on the underside. The box like fins also need to be tweaked where they meet the hull.


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

Fixed the box fins and added the access hatch. Also gave it a touch of colour.


----------



## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Great work! Somewhat interesting ship


----------



## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

Interesting! Looks like you're off to a good start, I wish you all the luck with this!

Isn't in fascinating that this rocket from 1929 turns out to look a lot like many of the early designs for the Orion bomb-propelled ship?

OK, I have to ask the question. Is there any discussion or explanation for the box-fins? To my mostly uneducated eye they seem to add mass and drag without any real benefit, except as sturdy 'grounded' struts. I guess in today's science one could squirt fuel in there and ignite it for an additional ramjet boost.


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

^^ The design is a variant of Hermann Oberth's _Modell E_ Rocket design depicted in one of his books from the 1920s. There might be an explanation for the fins in the book but nothing I read in the _Spaceship Handbook_ mentions the thinking behind the fins. Yes, they do serve as supports for the ship's take-off, but what isn't apparent here is how this all works in the film. In the film the ship is _standing in water_ for take-off, which is supposed to protect the ship from acoustic shock from its own take-off. Apparently it is somewhat similar to what is done with modern rockets prior to take-off (they're hosed down I understand) and that's where all that billowing smoke (actually steam) comes from.

The ship is a multistage rocket just like modern rockets, and Oberth had all this worked out years before the film. Indeed it's why Fritz Lang contracted Oberth to a be the film's technical advisor. In the film, while the ship's crew and passengers lack any specialized flight suits, the film correctly depicts the effects of acceleration and zero gravity. I think a lot of the film silly except for the depiction of the rocket and its flight---those parts are fascinating not only in how it's shown, but in how essentially right so much of it is. And this was at a time when space travel was considered pure fantasy.

Apparently a number of people have built working scale models of the _Friede_ and flown them successfully. I understand it's also available as a resin kit from Fantastic Plastic.


----------



## spawndude (Nov 28, 2007)

The ships in those books and your 3D designs would be great candidates for afforable 3D printers which I hope are a short distance down the road.

Imagine having spaceships from all your favorite scifi movies.


----------



## eagledocf15 (Nov 4, 2008)

*Nostalgic*

Great work on the 3D model. Looks excellent!


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

Where the second stage meets the first stage is presently just a visible geometry line, but I've just now done that line as an actual seam. As such it could show up in some shots (when rendered) and not in others depending on how the light falls on it. I'll do the same for the separation between the second stage meets the third as well as the access door since otherwise it would be totally invisible given it's the same silver colour as the majority of the hull. The windows will be done as slightly transparent pale yellow and I think I'll add a rudimentary interior. I haven't mastered lighting yet in Sketchup but I can try to add some illumination to the interior to show the windows off more.

The exhaust nozzles shouldn't be too hard since I really only have to make one and then duplicate several times. Colour is largely conjecture since the film was b&w and the only colour reference on the drawings are that most of the hull is silver and we can infer part of it is black or dark grey.

When I'm done I want to do some Photoshops of the ship going into space.


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

Okay, I'm not done yet, but here is a little f/x fun.










Note that the one thing definitely missing is the exhaust flame.

For those who have never seen this film there is one shot in it that I think is awesome. It's a shot of the ship going upwards into the distance and it's very quick where all you see is essentially the exhaust flame as the ship rises like a bat outta hell. Pretty damn cool for a silent film.


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

While I might not be able to get through all of them these are the vehicles on my radar for this parade.

Spaceship _Friede_ - _Die Frau im Mond_ (1929)
Flash Gordon's Rocket Ship - _Buck Rogers_ serials (1930-1940)
Rocketship _Galileo_ - _Rocketship Galileo_ (1947)*
Chesley Bonestell's Moon ship - _Conquest Of Space_ (1949)*
Spaceship _Luna_ - _Destination: Moon_ (1951)
Space Ark - _When Worlds Collide_ (1951)
Klaatu's Saucer - _The Day The Earth Stood Still_ (1951)
Mars Spaceship - _Conquest Of Space_ (1955)
Alien Saucer - _Earth Vs. The Flying Saucers_ (1956)
C57-D Cruiser - _Forbidden Planet_ (1956)
_Cosmostrator_ - _First Spaceship On Venus_ (1959)
_Jupiter II_ - _Lost In Space_ (1965)
_Phantom Cruiser_ - _Space Ghost_ (1966)
_Voyager_ - _Fantastic Voyage_ (1966)

*denotes these are books.


Getting the exhaust nozzles into place.


----------



## Frank2056 (Mar 23, 2007)

Nice job on the Friede! What software did you use?

I love the "Spaceship Handbook" (and the companion "The Saucer Fleet"); so many ships that just beg to be done in 3D.

I made and printed the Bonestell Moonship in 1/350 scale. I also made a variation on the Transcontinental Rocket with more conventional scratchbuilding materials.
I've done the C-57D and the "Invaders" saucer, both in 1/350 scale.


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

^^ Nice! :thumbsup:

A lot of these ships are from before my time, when fans had visions of these huge single stage interplanetary rockets powered by atomic motors. As I little kid in the '60s I caught the tail end of the sensibility.

It's somewhat ironic that a real starship traveling at a significant percentage of light, maybe even 90% or better, would likely have a shape reminiscent of those classic rocketships, to better pierce the interstellar medium (which isn't a true vacuum) and assuming it was made of truly advanced materials.

It's been argued that maybe science fiction has been too successful and popular. The reality seen on the nightly news can't match the excitement of the cinematic visions played out for what has become a rather cynical audience overall. I hope that's not true, that we still have souls dreaming and aspiring to go "where no man has gone before." That aspiration got us into the air and onward to the Moon. I hope it can be regained someday.


Oh, and btw I'm using SketchUp.


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

Now here's something amusing. If you do a Google search of images for "Spaceship _Friede"_ you get some of the images I've posted in this thread. :lol:

This happened before when doing my TOS shuttlecraft schematics and 3D model.


More to the point I'll have to check the dvd for reference. Fantastic Plastic offers a kit of the _Friede_ and on their build they depict it with a red band around the fuseluge just below the stage separation. Firstly I want to see if such a band is actually there given it's not indicated on the drawings in the _Spaceship Handbook._ If a band is there then I'm guessing that someone at Fantastic Plastic is assuming the band should be red. Or it could be just a quick and simple way to add colour to an otherwise plain expanse of silver on a simple shape. The _Spaceship Handbook_ simply states the main colour is silver with half of the upper section painted black. Fantastic Plastic also went with amber tinted windows which, again, might be pure conjecture on their part.


----------



## Dr. Brad (Oct 5, 1999)

This is pretty cool! Thanks for sharing your work!


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

Here are some screen caps from the film. At the top we have two nice images of the _Friede's_ internal arrangement, more particularly the upper crew levels. From that one could get some decent idea of how things go together. This is bolstered by the next two images showing a cutaway mockup of the ship. The next image (third down on the left) shows us some underside detail---not much, but it gives me a better idea of how the nozzles fit with the bottom of the vehicle. The image next to it shows us the ship on its gantry. At first it looks like there's a band around the craft, but it's actually a collar supporting the ship for it to be lowed into launching position. The bottom pic on the left shows the ship being moved over the water tank where the film says the ship is too light to support its own weight so it is placed in water for launch. The last image shows the ship in flight after launch and I can't make out any band around the fuselage.










Unfortunately there are no other clear shots of the ship elsewhere in the film. later in the film we see the fullsize mockup of the upper section after it has landed and thats not where the colour band is supposed to be anyway. Earlier in the film we saw the miniature mockup being studied before launch and it also showed no colour band.

So from this I can only deduce that the red colour band added to the Fantastic Plastic kit was someone's personal touch to add colour.


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

Here are some elevations.










I'm thinking that doing even a rudimentary interior is pointless for this since you can't really see anything for the shots I want to do and interior lighting won't really show or do much either. It's a shame there are no markings or colour lines on the ship because that would add a little something to a rather bare design. Hmm, maybe I could stray from original just a little... After all I did opt to show the delineations between stages by simply making them ever so slightly different tones of the same colour.


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

I'm not done with the _Friede_ yet, but here is a peak at what I'll be working on next. This isn't as thought through (in terms of realism) as the _Friede,_ but it is pure pulp/serial sic-fi and the most recognizable image of a spacecraft in the 1930s.










It was first seen in a 1930's sic-fi musical(?) called _Just Imagine._ Apparently the f/x were first-rate for the time, but for some dumbass reason the film was promoted as a musical rather than as science fiction. It essentially flopped partly because it was released not long after the stock market crash in 1929. The full-size mock-up ship would survive, though, and go on to feature in several B-films and serials, but it would become most well known as Zarkov's _Rocket Ship_ in the _Flash Gordon_ serials.


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

Warped9 said:


> It's a shame there are no markings or colour lines on the ship because that would add a little something to a rather bare design. Hmm, maybe I could stray from original just a little...


Giving this some further thought I am considering adding a little colour to this design even if it's not authentic. I can add a band of colour around the second stage and I can add a name scripted onto the third (upper) stage since that's the one that goes all the way to the Moon and back.

So I'm asking opinions on three options: 1 (top), 2 (middle) or 3 (bottom).


----------



## Fozzie (May 25, 2009)

One or three.


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

It is odd that they didn't think of any kind of markings, not even a number registry or anything. Yet there are a number of oddities in this film. The crew don't enter the ship by any platform, but rather _they have to climb in by rope ladder!_ The crew take-off in a prone position (much like modern astronauts), but the controls are not easily accessible---_they have to roll over sideways and reach for the control levers!_ Not at all easy to do under crushing high-g acceleration (which they depict in the film).

The ship has very advanced ideas and forethought (for the time) mixed with some genuine lack of forethought.


----------



## publiusr (Jul 27, 2006)

That's the IKEA school of engineering--or should I say the ALDI grocer's concept. Displays? heh--just stack it on the floor.


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

Playing with some imaging.


----------



## ffejG (Aug 27, 2008)

Now this is cool. I have the book and love it. And I love the attention you are giving these subjects. More please!


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

_Friede_ enroute and hard landing.






















The truth is the _Friede_ hard landed and sustained such damage that it never actually returned to Earth. The ship is still somewhere on the Moon waiting to be found.


----------



## ffejG (Aug 27, 2008)

Warped9 said:


> _Friede_
> The truth is the _Friede_ hard landed and sustained such damage that it never actually returned to Earth. The ship is still somewhere on the Moon waiting to be found.


So much for the 3 hour tour - _Those poor people_.


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

The beginnings of _*Buck Rogers in the 25th Century.*_


----------



## Paulbo (Sep 16, 2004)

Warped9 said:


> The beginnings of _*Buck Rogers in the 25th Century.*_...


Looks good! (Though it's Flash Gordon, not Buck Rogers.  )


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

Paulbo said:


> Looks good! (Though it's Flash Gordon, not Buck Rogers.  )


_DOH!!!_ Severe brain fart.

At least we won't see any Twicky.


----------



## Paulbo (Sep 16, 2004)

Phew! Thank goodness for the lack of Twicky!


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

You know, when I look at the basic hull shape of this thing I'm reminded of some of the pre TOS designs done by *Masao* on his _Starfleet Museum_ website. Take away the fins and the landing wheels and there's the basic shape for a 22nd century pre TOS ship variant in it. One of those "primitive" ships Spock could be referring to in "Balance Of Terror." That is if you ignore ENT...which I have from the beginning.

For those not familiar with the site.


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

Even though Dr. Zarkov’s Rocket Ship is pure pulp sci-fi in terms of design there are some interesting things about it. The full-size exterior mock-up of the ship itself predates the _Flash Gordon_ serials, but still it was a full-size exterior. Of course we also get to see a “flying” filming miniature and the two exteriors are not exactly the same it appears (much like the differences in the full-size and miniature filming models of the TOS shuttlecraft). The flying miniature rocketship appears not to have the rivet detail that is apparent on full-size exterior, notably around the access hatch and where the winglets fasten to the fuselage. The original design (seen in the screencaps) did not have the ray cannon affixed to the bow (it was added later in the serials), but it is included in the reference drawings I’m working from and so I’m including it also. The one real detail I’m uncertain about is how the forward wheel housings are attached to the fuselage and details for the wheels as well---those details are lacking in the reference drawings. I don’t know if I’m that keen on studying hours of serial footage just to get a better understanding of tthat detail.

The interior set we see is not actually the interior of the full-size exterior. As I understand it two interior sets were made originally although I don’t recall having seen the aft compartment myself. Still it’s interesting the contours of the interior don’t match the exterior as if the designers or producers thought well enough to account for the ship’s mechanicals and hence less interior space than one might have expected. Certainly the interior is interesting in the fact that there is only one seat available (for the pilot) when the craft is supposed to be able to hold more than one person. Anyone else besides the pilot has to make do with hand-holds while standing.

Another interesting aspect is that the ship is actually more like a rocket plane than the traditional upright missile style design. It takes off and lands more like an aircraft, but with apparently very little take-off area required. Although it’s called a _rocket_ ship we also hear it is propelled by a “gravity neutralizer” which is mentioned more prominently in regard to landing the ship. If we accept this as some form of anti-gravity system then the short take-offs and landings as well as the rather small and stubby wing/stabilzers make more sense. Originally the numerous tubes surrounding the middle of the fuselage were intended as the rockets, but later in the serials the four aft facing exhaust ports (or what look like such) are also used as rockets. Interesting, too, that when the ships of _Flash Gordon_ were shown in flight they were accompanied by an electrical like sparking and humming sound f/x rather than the roar of a rocket engine, which, unlike today, would likely have been a very uncommon and unfamiliar sound to most in the 1930s.

The ship doesn’t have an actual airlock (much like a lot of sci-fi designs including the TOS shuttlecraft), but rather has a simple access hatch. Unlike in _Star Trek_ and othe SF films, though, in _Flash Gordon_ they thought nothing of opening this door while in flight in space, something they knew better not to do or even suggest on _Star Trek_ and other film and television SF.


As dated as it might look to contemporary eyes I must admit, much alike the TOS shuttlecraft, it would be a blast to have a full-size mock-up on hand to display and goof around with. :lol:


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

Okay, this project is being temporarily suspended because it's dawned on me that the reference illustrations I'm working off of are not looking the way the should. What I mean is that shapes and proportions on the drawings are not consistent with screencaps of the actual fullsize or miniature filming models. It's possible the conical tail section isn't quite as long as it should be and the large tailfines are not the right shape. Screencap images make it look very much like the tailfins do not have the angle shown in the reference drawings and that they should be closer to parallel with the ships longitudinal centreline. The ship also looks to sit a bit closer to the ground (when landed) then it appears in the drawings. Also the ray cannon in the drawings is lacking detail that is clearly evident onscreen.

What this means is that I'm going to get a good side elevation image of the onscreen models and make some quick drawings off of those and compare them with the present reference drawings. Until that's done I'm suspending taking this model further.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Okay, that didn't take too long. And my problems are relatively easy to fix. The reference drawings from _The Spaceship Handbook_ are indeed off. The tail section aft of the midship collar of rocket tubes should be about 18.2 percent longer---easy enough to fix by stretching the tail section out. Also, as I suspected, the tailfins are more raked in angle than shown on TSH drawings. The outside edge isn't quite parallel to the ship's centreline, but it's close. And finally from what I can discern the landing wheels are indeed mounted a bit higher on the craft to allow it to sit closer to the ground when landed.

We can now proceed with our regularly scheduled program...


----------



## Krel (Jun 7, 2000)

Warped9 said:


> later in the serials the four aft facing exhaust ports (or what look like such) are also used as rockets.




In "Just Imagine" those were ports so they could see behind the rocket. I haven't seen the movie in years, so I don't remember how the interior set looked, and how it was different from the FG one. I haven't seen the FG serial in years either.

David.


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

I've never seen _Just Imagine_ and I barely remember _Flash Gordon_ even though I used to watch it in the '60s on _The Commander Tom Show_ beamed out of Buffalo.


----------



## kenlee (Feb 11, 2010)

I have a copy of "Just Imagine, the rear ports are definitely windows.


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

Corrections made and now it's beginning to take shape.


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

Finally got to see the film _Just Imagine_. Uh, all I can say is that it really does stink as a film. The rocket plane (as it's called) is really the only thing of interest in it.


----------



## kdaracal (Jan 24, 2009)

On the "book only" versions, will you use the commonly found book art on most?


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

kdaracal said:


> On the "book only" versions, will you use the commonly found book art on most?


I can only use the resources I have at hand.

In the case of this current design I'm wondering if more than moderate modifications were made to the _Just Imagine_ rocket plane. Either that or the drawings in _The Spaceship Handbook_ aren't complete. The book's drawings do look closer to the JI rocket place while the Flash Gordon ship looks longer. Or perhaps the serials' miniature was made to look proportionately longer. I'm also wondering about the shape of the forward main section.

It looks like I'm going to be studying more screen caps.


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

Here I've scaled a side elevation of the ship from the book reference drawings alongside a screencap of the ship from the original film. I've scaled the drawing as close as I can to mirror the image of the ship from the photo. It isn't prefect, but it's more than enough to show that the reference drawing is definitely off. The most notable inconsistency is the length of the aft section---it's clearly far too short in the drawing. You can also see the fins are also more steeply raked on the model. Finally the shape of the forward section doesn't see quite the same as the drawings.










I certainly am curious to know what references were used to create the drawing. If he was working straight from screencaps alone it's still hard to see how he could have missed this. If by some chance he was working from archival materiel (such as original drawings) then perhaps the original design was meant to be shorter and the actual mock-up was made larger.

I would really like to see a really good large image of the ship in profile, assuming there is one somewhere amongst all the _Flash Gordon_ serial footage. There isn't any such image in the original film.


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

Thanks Youtube.

Scanned through some episodes and while I could have missed something these are the best images I could find of the model. I'm going to try making some simple drawings to work from because I think there are some distinct inconsistencies between this model and the drawings in _The Spaceship Handbook._










The top and middle images are best for (relative) clarity. The bottom image shows better detail for the ray cannon affixed to the nose. I have another close-up of the full-size mock-up which shows quite a bit of rivet detail although I'm not sure whether I'll try to include that on my 3D model.

Like the TOS shuttlecraft there are inconsistencies between the full-size exterior and the miniature filming model. That leaves some room for interpretation as to what the "actual" ship should look like.


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

Now we're getting somewhere even if it entails me having to start my 3D model from the beginning. From the image below you can see distinct differences between the shapes and dimensions I got off the screencaps and the reference drawing from _The Spaceship Handbook._ The images I used (posted upthread) were very close to dead on side elevation with little angle to the camera. That means not too much distortion in terms of length which I tried to take into account. The tail section is definitely longer and the forward section has a slightly different contour to it.











Now back to the starting line...


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

Okay, now we're gettin' somewhere.

Have made some significant progress here. All the major elements are in place and the shapes are looking more correct. The next items on the agenda are windows, access hatch and landing wheels.










It's amusing that the stubby wings on the front section were supposed to be retractable as originally intended in the film _Just Imagine._ Uh, just where are those wings supposed to go without intruding deep into the interior compartment and messing up what little usable space there is there? The craft also had extendable jacks for lift the nose up for take-off---again where are these things supposed to retract in to?


----------



## kenlee (Feb 11, 2010)

Warped9 said:


> Okay, now we're gettin' somewhere.
> 
> Have made some significant progress here. All the major elements are in place and the shapes are looking more correct. The next items on the agenda are windows, access hatch and landing wheels.
> 
> ...


They work on the "PFM" principle.


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

Last image before calling it a night. I got all the windows in except the small one that is part of the access hatch. I'm not going with the drawings on the door and instead I'll have just one. I think it just looks weird with two.










I'm wondering if I should drop Jack Hagerty a line by email when I get this one finished. Until this attempt I haven't seen a close reproduction of this ship. I find the drawings in Hagerty's book off and the only kit I've seen available was a resin kit that also was quite off (mostly in the fins from what I could see).

I wonder what ever happened to the full-size mock-up as well as the miniature version.


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

You know I don't have to squint much to see the makings of a Romulan style shuttlecraft in this design with just a bit of tweaking. The fins are a natural for stylized feather graphics similar to those seen on the TOS Romulan warship seen in "Balance Of Terror."


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

No pic to post today, but I am working on something a bit involved. I've made a shell of the interior which will give my windows some thickness or rather in a close up you'll be able to make out some hull thickness as seen through the windows. You really won't be able to see much, but I like to have it there. Now the interior has a deck and walls and ceiling. I might put in some simplified interior elements as well just for a sense of completion.

Overall I quite like how this is turning out.


----------



## Carl_G (Jun 30, 2012)

This is a very cool thread! As much a fan I am of Trek and SW, it's nice to see something different.

I know you've already moved on from the _Freide_, but I thought you'd find this interesting:

http://io9.com/5987223/how-one-man-recreated-the-first-spaceship-that-ever-appeared-in-the-movies


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

Carl_G said:


> This is a very cool thread! As much a fan I am of Trek and SW, it's nice to see something different.
> 
> I know you've already moved on from the _Freide_, but I thought you'd find this interesting:
> 
> http://io9.com/5987223/how-one-man-recreated-the-first-spaceship-that-ever-appeared-in-the-movies


Thanks! And it's possible I might eventually revisit the design.


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

One thing I've noticed in terms of inconsistency between the miniature and the full-size mockup of Flash Gordon's Rocket Ship is that the access hatch on the miniature looks proportionately smaller than it does on the mock-up. It leaves you to wonder what the ship's true size is supposed to be. A larger door means easier exits ring and exiting, but a smaller door suggests more interior room.


----------



## Frank2056 (Mar 23, 2007)

Warped9 said:


> I'm wondering if I should drop Jack Hagerty a line by email when I get this one finished. Until this attempt I haven't seen a close reproduction of this ship. I find the drawings in Hagerty's book off and the only kit I've seen available was a resin kit that also was quite off (mostly in the fins from what I could see).


You should - but also drop Jon C. Rogers (http://www.rogersrocketships.com/home.cfm) a note; he did the drawings and he'll appreciate your work. 

Have you tried to render your model to match the angles seen in properly scaled screen caps of both the miniatures and the full scale ship? That (or an error in the aspect ratio of the screen caps0 may account for some of the discrepancies.


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

Frank2056 said:


> You should - but also drop Jon C. Rogers (http://www.rogersrocketships.com/home.cfm) a note; he did the drawings and he'll appreciate your work.


Yeah, I think I will. If nothing else he might get a kick out of seeing someone inspired by their work and the subject matter.

That said while working on this I keep thinking how nice a decently sized kit this would make.


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

Today I got the front wheels done and tomorrow I'll finish off the rear wheel then I should have some images to share.


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

In the interim here is something I'm looking at. A collection of stills from _Just Imagine_ and the first episode of the _Flash Gordon_ serials.

The first batch shows us the original full-size mock-up and its interior. The mock-up lacks the riveting detail that shows up later when it's used for the _Flash Gordon_ serials. We can also see that the ship had quite a different and more sparse interior than that shown in _Flash Gordon._ One thing the mock-up shows is that it looks proportionately shorter than the miniature used in the film and in the serials. This leads me to suspect the reference drawings from _The Spaceship Handbook_ are based mostly on the mock-up. That said it's odd that the access hatch on the drawings looks proportionately smaller than it appears on the mock-up.











The second batch of stills shows us the interior as it appeared in _Flash Gordon._ It's certainly a lot more detailed and not as spare as originally. The detail also suggest bulkheads and supports the idea of an inner hull with mechanicals between the inner and outer shells.











In both instances, though, it looks like the interior looks bigger than would fit in the exterior mock-up. Hmm, very much like the TOS shuttlecraft thirty years later. :lol:


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

Almost there. I have some small details I want to add, but all the major elements are there to show what it looks like. Because the horizontal tail fins are more raked than what is shown on the reference drawings it lifts the rear landing wheel a bit, but it results in a landed orientation of only one degree of tilt. I think that's negligible and forgivable. I could negate that by lifting the front wheels marginally (and consequently have to shift them a bit wider apart) and that is something I'm considering.










I'm not entirely happy with the finish because from the films it looks like the ship should have more of a buffed bare metal finish. I'll work on that. This model is more alike the filming miniature than the full-size mock-up. The main visual differences between the two are the angle of the leading edge of the fins and the length of the aft section---the mock-up is proportionately shorter and looks too stubby for my tastes. The other difference is the access door on the mock-up is also proportionately larger and as a result skews the scale of the ship. The larger door makes the ship look smaller overall with less interior space.


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

Also, I've sent a message to John C. Rogers regarding the Flash Gordon ship and the other vehicles I'm doing from the book.


----------



## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

I suddenly feel the need to get Flash Gordon on DVD...


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

Chrisisall said:


> I suddenly feel the need to get Flash Gordon on DVD...


:lol: I had the same feeling this past weekend. In fact I think I will order it.

While working on this and looking at that image I posted above I keep thinking how cool it would be to have a nice kit of this ship, maybe about 12in. long. And although I've no real need for it I've got the idea of doing my own schematics of the ship as well. Even so I am going to try cobbling something of an interior for it based on the screencaps I can find. I'd really like to see more information on the full-size mock-up as well as the filming miniature.

Hmm, I suppose R2/PL couldn't be talked into producing a proper kit of this??? 

Some little detail you can't see on those elevations. I put nozzles in those four large openings facing aft. I also added some detail inside the ray cannon muzzle. The wheels have some treads on them and I partially enclosed the wheel housings underneath when in reality I've no real idea how that's supposed to look like.


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

I sent a note to Jon C. Rogers over the weekend and already I've heard back. He replied that he quite liked what I'm doing with the designs from _The Spaceship Handbook _and that he would forward my letter and the images I included to his co-authors.

I also asked him if he had any idea as to what eventually became of the full-size exterior of the Flash Gordon rocketship and the companion filming miniature. I'm waiting to hear back.


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

Here is another look at the interior and it's evolution from initially in _Just Imagin_e and then through the _Flash Gordon_ serials.

Initially we have a quite spare and minimalist interior.










Then in the first _Flash Gordon_ serial we have a more evolved and more detailed interior that style very retro looking remains clean and visually interesting (in my opinion)










Later on the interior is redressed twice. One version (on the left) bears practically no resemblance to the ship's basic shape as seen from the outside and particularly with its distinctive overhead viewports. The second version looks better yet also a lot busier with more detail that looks just thrown onto the walls.











The only things I like about the initial version is the control panel. It's clean and easy to see and retro looking. The first version of the serials is a nice evolution with interesting period detailing added even if the set isn't truly consistent with the ship's exterior. The remake with rectangular viewports where none exist on the ship's exterior just looks plain and boring (in my opinion). The last version evokes the ship's exterior shape, but I find it too busy with what I think is unimaginative detailing.

Overall I think I like the first serial version best.

Opinions?


----------



## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

The first one seems the most cleanly imaginative!


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

A sense of credibility was not this design's forte. The only visible means of propulsion originally was the collar of rocket tubes encircling the centre section. Those tubes look awfully small and when you consider the forward section was essentially hollow then just where were the motors for those rocket tubes? Now one little tidbit: in the film there is reference to a "gravity neutralizer" and in the serials it's called a "counter-magnet." Both terms suggest the idea of an antigrav system in play. In that case then the rocket motors mightn't need to be that big and powerful to get the ship off the ground and for maneuvering since the antigrav system could well be the main drive. The collar of tubes could essentially be maneuvering thrusters.

In the film _Just Imagine_ the four rear facing openings (or at least the upper two) were indeed windows, but during the _Flash Gordon _serials they were turned into rocket exhausts.

Now if you go by the full-size exterior mock-up it does indeed look like there is next to no room for mechanicals. But if you go by the filming miniature (which has a proportionately smaller access hatch) and the interior set shown in the first serial then you get an impression that the ship is somewhat larger and the is indeed room for mechanicals. Indeed the shape of the forward compartment seen in the first serial doesn't match the shape of the exterior forward section. The interior seems to have flatter walls that don't match the curved shape of the exterior.

With that perspective I have been able to fashion a rudimentary interior that does allow for quite a bit of space for mechanicals between hulls with most of them under the deck/floor. Now you can't really make an exec match of any of the interiors (save the film version) that properly matches the ship's exterior shape. To that end the best I can is use the basic template of the interior seen in the first serial and adapt it to make a more credible and consistent (with the exterior) interior.


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

Here we can see what I'm starting with in regards to the interior. Using the access hatch (not see in this cross-section) as a guide You can see the placement of the deck leaves a decent amount of room underneath for mechanicals including perhaps the referenced "gravity neutralizer." I think there is also sufficient space left up front for the mechanicals of the ray cannon. The rearmost aft section also has room...for whatever one could imagine being back there. You can also see that while the interior follows the exterior contours there is most definitely a space between hulls.










What isn't seen here yet are the allowances I will make for additional "between hulls" space around the compartment, most particularly allowing some space for smallish motors of the collar of maneuvering rockets.

Even scaling the ship up a but from what it seems to be as shown by the full-size mock-up this will still be a compact ship internally. I don't even want to think of how three adventurers could endure being cooped up in it for any extended duration. :lol:

The other problem with this being a "rocket" ship is where are the fuel takes?


----------



## crowe-t (Jul 30, 2010)

Nice work on these ships! 

It's funny how most of the space ships from this time period looked like rockets. A few years later it seemed that the space ships became saucers in the sci-fi movies and TV shows of the 50's.


----------



## Krel (Jun 7, 2000)

Take a look at the ship at the bottom of this page: http://s58.beta.photobucket.com/user/misterfusion/library/Juliens/Flash Gordon It appears that they made a second ship for the Flash Gordon serials.

How does the old Herb Deeks rocket compare to the screen used ship? http://www.fantastic-plastic.com/DR ZARKOV'S ROCKETSHIP PAGE.htm

David.


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

What you see here are x-ray views of the interior I'm cobbling together. I'm trying to adapt the elements I liked best from what I saw onscreen and, of course, filling in the blanks so-to-speak where I have no information or reference. I also have to say that some of this is my guesswork because some of what we saw onscreen made no sense whatsoever in being so inconsistent with the ship's exterior shape. The large overhead viewports are usually shown much smaller onscreen than they really are in relation to the ship's exterior. Sometimes they weren't included at all.










I still haven't worked out any exact scale yet, but the archway openings of the interior are meant to be about 6ft and maybe a bit more. The interior is inspired mostly by the first version seen in the first serial. The interior had distinctive framework down the centre of the ship and it seemed to suggest compartments along the ship's length as well as allowing room for mechanicals between the bulkheads and the outer hull.


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

Changed a bit in the forward compartment, but here in these cross-sections you can get a fair look at the internal arrangement I've worked out. Now all the major elements are in place and I'm going to start adding a few fixtures in the forward compartment. Then that should do it. If I can figure out how to add some lighting to SketchUp then I could get some better interior views with more realistic lighting.











I wonder if I'm putting a lot more thought into the interior of this thing than the serial producers. Looking at the onscreen interiors of the ship a lot of it seems rather slapped together with whatever they could find, which wouldn't be surprising since serials weren't meant to be the high art of film making. Certainly a lot more thought evidently went into the _Friede's_ internal arrangement, not surprising since Hermann Oberth was the film's science and technical consultant.

For the _Flash Gordon_ ship I imagine a lot of the major mechanicals being under the deck. The various compartments could hold various supplies and two of the compartments (those with a window each) could be bunk style sleeping berths for at most two persons each. One of the smaller compartments could actually be a bathroom. The rear most compartment could be a sort of multipurpose workshop.

Given the shape of the corridor walls I see any doors as manual sliding panels, much simpler than trying to accommodate conventional opening doors. Panels in the deck (and overhead) allow for access to ship's mechanicals.

Nonetheless I imagine this craft to retain snug accommodations. :lol:


Another issue is the main access hatch. Most of the time onscreen it's shown as a conventional car door like affair. In the original film a ladder was also required to get into and out of the vehicle. But later in the serials another door was added to the opposite side of the ship and apparently it was a swing-down affair with steps built into the door. I think this idea makes a lot more sense only I wouldn't include it as another door given the ship's already cramped accommodations as it is. Rather I'd opt to keep one door in the original position on the port side yet make it the swing-down version.


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

Finally got around to scaling this puppy. I get a ship length of 52'-4-3/8" or 15.960725m.


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

I'm into fixtures now. I'm working on the main control panel for the forward compartment as well as some of the instruments on the wall.

Looking ahead I'm thinking of skipping the Rocketship _Galileo_ and going right to one I've been thinking about for a very long time...










It's going to be a challenge to reconcile some of the shapes and lines into something coherent that really looks like the onscreen craft yet also works in 3D. There are also a fair number of interior shots regarding the cockpit and quite a few of them are generally consistent with each other.

To my eyes this a very advanced and sophisticated starfaring spaceplane that can go FTL across interstellar distances. Yet it has no visible/recognizable means of propulsion. Certainly it sports no obvious rocket or thrust exhausts indicating some form of reaction drive. It's shape is somewhat reminiscent of the Northrop HL-10 lifting body research craft seen in the 1960s to early '70s so it has some measure of aerodynamics. Without obvious landing jets or even landing gear I suspect it has a form of antigrav system. The fuselage and wings might also be comprised of advanced "memory alloy" that can change or modify its form to an extent depending upon flight conditions.

Should be fun. Hey, if I can bring a TAS scoutship into 3D then just maybe I can do this.


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

Krel said:


> Take a look at the ship at the bottom of this page: http://s58.beta.photobucket.com/user/misterfusion/library/Juliens/Flash Gordon It appears that they made a second ship for the Flash Gordon serials.
> 
> How does the old Herb Deeks rocket compare to the screen used ship? http://www.fantastic-plastic.com/DR ZARKOV'S ROCKETSHIP PAGE.htm
> 
> David.


Sorry for the late reply. The Herb Deeks model has curved rather than straight edged fins. The rearward facing open cylinders are curved rather than straight. The leading edge of the forward wings have more of a curve in plan view. The upper windows on the forward section look proportionately smaller than the onscreen ship. And the landing wheel housings look a different shape, too.

In the 1950s there was a _Flash Gordon_ television series filmed in Germany. I've no idea what the ship looked like, but that image you referenced might be it.


----------



## kenlee (Feb 11, 2010)

Removed by Author.


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

Warped9 said:


> Looking ahead I'm thinking of skipping the Rocketship _Galileo_ and going right to one I've been thinking about for a very long time...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Studying these images and sketching last night I can see contradictions. The most familiar view of the ship (as seen from above) leads one to think that the wings flow back from the nose and flare out yet fixed above the main body. But seen from below that's not how the ship is drawn. Seen from below we don't see a discernible fuselage separate from the wings. As drawn it looks like the wings are much thicker and merged with the protruding forward section. The ship is more manta ray like than bird or airplane like. I don't have a problem with that, but it makes reconciling the top view a challenge. Granted annimated ships are stylized and simplified, but a simple extra line easily added to the bottom view would have made a big difference and yet it's not there. It could be that what we're seeing from above is more of a painting scheme rather than hard lines or shapes. Also the bottom and top surfaces each appear to have a subtle crest or ridge to them as evidenced by a continuous line from bow to stern.


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

What you see here is the basis for my main control panel for Flash Gordon's ship. I'm basing this on the panel seen in the first serial because I think it's the most interesting one seen in those serials.


----------



## ffejG (Aug 27, 2008)

This is so much fun. Too bad you can't spit these out in styrene. I'd love to build some of these.


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

ffejG said:


> This is so much fun. Too bad you can't spit these out in styrene. I'd love to build some of these.


It would be nice to see.some of these as production kits. I have no experience with resin kits, but from little I've seen I didn't really care for them. They don't seem to have the same crisp detailing and shapes as styrene kits. Of course maybe the pics I've seen are of mediocre resin kits and/or mediocre builds.

I can understand why many of these subjects mightn't make it to kit form because many of them are obscure. So that leaves it in the hands of those willing to produce garage kits (more expensive?) or scrathbuilds. Now to that hand decent drawings could easily be made available for those willing to try either one.

I also have to add that it could be challenging to make truly accurate replicas of these ships. The Flash Gordon ship is a good example. All that's left to go by are the serials to try to get the shapes and details right. In terms of interiors it changed drastically during the run of the serials so which one do you follow? And in many cases (like my control panel) details and true shapes are obscured and not easily discernible. For myself I'm left to "best guess" it and approximate. Then what about colours? It's b&w so other than skin tone anything else is pretty much up for grabs.

And there are inconsistencies though sometimes not large. In the first episode during take-off only Dr. Zarkov has a seat while Flash and Dale have to stand up and use hand-holds(!!!). Yet later while in flight two extra seats for Flash and Dale have magically appeared. So which is it? I'm opting for the three seats on my model.

I admit much of the interior on my 3D model is adaptation and even outright invention on my part. Although the screencaps give me an idea of what the interior looks like in the central part of the ship I don't think we saw beyond that rearward. So from what little I can see I extrapolated and "filled in the blanks." I'm also left to contradict what is shown onscreen because of blatant inconsistencies. The overhead bulkhead of the forward compartment in no way matches the exterior with those large overhead windows so I'm left to defer to one or the other. Since the exterior never changed (in that respect) throughout the whole time it appeared I went with that and reconciled the interior to be consistent. Of course the filmmakers simplified the interior in some ways to facilitate construction, but I don't have that concern. I'm treating the design as an integrated whole in similar fashion as I did with my TOS shuttlecraft plans.


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

Still a WIP, but here is my emerging rocketship control panel for Flash Gordon's ship. The colours are my guess since I'm working from b&w stills. The shape of the pedestal probably isn't exact either, but I can't get a really good look at it in the screen caps.


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

Okay, here is a little something and then I'm calling it a day. Main control panel and three seats for our adventurers. This part is done and next I'm moving onto wall fixtures...tomorrow.










There is actually supposed to be more detail added to the faces of those dials, but considering I have to shrink this down to fit into the ship model it's pointless to add detail no one will be able to make out. In fact I put more detail into that console then I originally planned. I basically got carried away with it.

The revised version of the ship's main control panel was of simpler shape (basically a cylinder with an angled cut to it) but it didn't look as detailed and I also found it less visually interesting.


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

What you see here are the control panel, the seats and the cabin fixtures in place within the framework of the forward compartment.










The large dials on the left are not exactly where they should be simply because the shape of the set onscreen isn't the same as my model. My model follows the exterior shape of the hull while being slightly smaller in diameter (to account for some hull thickness for mechanicals. Also the onscreen set's walls are not as curved as mine. But the positioning of the dials is only slightly off. There are two fixtures missing here, though. One is a what looks to be a clock, but a window is where the clock would have been. In the serials when a window was added to the forward compartment the clock disappeared but then, of course, they had drastically changed the interior set anyway.

The other piece missing is some sort of powered system that was shown sitting right in the middle of the deck where you enter the forward compartment---stupid place to put such a thing given that the first serial interior set was shown as rather cramped to begin with. My version is slightly less tight because I was able to push the walls out some.

Of course, the main reason my interior is not too detailed is because little of it will be seen through the windows of the model anyway. It will be visible mostly if I show cross-sections of the model.

The one last thing I want to try is to see if I can add interior lights to this.


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

Almost there. Here are three views. The top image is of the forward compartment as seen from the inside just inside the central passageway. I've shown the hidden geometry so the shape of the compartment is more evident. The middle image is a glimpse of the interior as seen from outside. The bottom image is the entire ship in x-ray view to show how it all fits together.










I just realized I've forgotten one small thing. In the serials the ship had something of a periscope/telescope to look around outside, which makes some sort of sense since the largest windows are overhead and largely useless. :lol: That said I guess at the time they hadn't thought of outboard mounted cameras and viewing screens inside to see what's going on outside.

I must say I rather like that bottom image. What you might not notice is in regards to the windows. I tinted the windows blue from the outside, but from the inside I left them as perfectly clear and untinted transparencies. My thinking is it limits what can be seen from outside (and I think it looks cool) yet you have an unobstructed view outward from inside.


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

Done. All that remains is a matter of finishing. I want the hull to have a somewhat shiny surface since the ship is supposed to be a shiny silver colour or almost like buffed bare metal. And I think I've found a way to add lights within SketchUp.

More X-ray views (cause I think it's kinda cool).










It's hard to tell in these images, but I have added the periscope/telescope to the main compartment. Like onscreen it's located on the port side of the main cabin. I obviously could have gotten even more detailed with the interior, but for this first time around with this design I don't see the need. I thought about adding detail to the back of the access hatch since when it swings down (as it's supposed to) there would be ladder like steps affixed to it. I might still do that if I decide to show the ship landed with the hatch open... Okay, who am I kidding? I know I will eventually do that. :lol:


----------



## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

Very nice, clean, precise work, Warped!


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

Chrisisall said:


> Very nice, clean, precise work, Warped!


Thanks! Having been able to achieve this I think I'll try to do the same thing with my 3D TOS shuttlecraft when I get back to it. Even if you don't see it just knowing the interior is there seems to add an extra sense of completion to it.

It also reinforces my wish that someone was making a production styrene kit of his. :lol:


----------



## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

Warped9 said:


> It also reinforces my wish that someone was making a production styrene kit of this. :lol:


What 'they' do not make, 'we' can!:thumbsup:


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

Cool! I've finally figured out how to do proper texture mapping in SketchUp. I've also learned something about making my own textures in Photoshop. This should go a long way to helping me get the finish and colours I want for my models.


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

Swooping in victory Flash Gordon returns home...


----------



## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

That's beautiful. But... it can't be original footage... did you photoshop it?


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

Chrisisall said:


> That's beautiful. But... it can't be original footage... did you photoshop it?


What do you think?


----------



## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

Warped9 said:


> What do you think?


I think you are an artist, sir!


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

Thanks. I regret, though, that my model is flawed and I think it has something to do with the rendering program. You shouldn't be able to see that segmenting effect on the curved surfaces. They should be perfectly smooth. I just might try a different rendering program if I can't solve this.

For my next ship...hmmm...Phantom Cruiser?


----------



## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

Warped9 said:


> You shouldn't be able to see that segmenting effect on the curved surfaces.


Looks perfect to me... but then I'm not the artist here. We judge _our own_ work most harshly.


----------



## Avian (Feb 16, 2010)

Warped9 said:


> Thanks. I regret, though, that my model is flawed and I think it has something to do with the rendering program. You shouldn't be able to see that segmenting effect on the curved surfaces. They should be perfectly smooth. I just might try a different rendering program if I can't solve this.
> 
> For my next ship...hmmm...Phantom Cruiser?



Maybe I missed it - what programs are you using? I know that in 3ds MAX sometimes editable poly's get wonky and I'll have to go in and re-smooth the mesh before rendering.


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

^^ Well I can try re-smoothing within SketchUp before rendering because I can't think or don't know what I could tweak in Maxwell.


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

Looking ahead I'm thinking of skipping the Rocketship _Galileo_ and going right to one I've been thinking about for a very long time...










It's going to be a challenge to reconcile some of the shapes and lines into something coherent that really looks like the onscreen craft yet also works in 3D. There are also a fair number of interior shots regarding the cockpit and quite a few of them are generally consistent with each other.

Studying these images and sketching last night I can see contradictions. The most familiar view of the ship (as seen from above) leads one to think that the wings flow back from the nose and flare out yet fixed above the main body. But seen from below that's not how the ship is drawn. Seen from below we don't see a discernible fuselage separate from the wings. As drawn it looks like the wings are much thicker and merged with the protruding forward section. The ship is more manta ray like than bird or airplane like. I don't have a problem with that, but it makes reconciling the top view a challenge. Granted annimated ships are stylized and simplified, but a simple extra line easily added to the bottom view would have made a big difference and yet it's not there. It could be that what we're seeing from above is more of a painting scheme rather than hard lines or shapes. Also the bottom and top surfaces each appear to have a subtle crest or ridge to them as evidenced by a continuous line from bow to stern.

I'm beginning to have a kernel of an idea about this. Basically take the side elevation profile of the ship (when I draw it) and use that as the essential cross-section of everything as it flows back into the shape of the wings. Note, too, that there appears to be a bit of upsweep in the wings from about midway out from the fuselage. While sketching I'm pretty convinced that you wouldn't see much of the fuselage as distinct. It will look very much like a wing all the way across with the thickest part in the middle as the main body. There will be something organic about the final result. Add in the fact that there are no discernible exhaust ports on this thing. Extrapolating from that the ship incorporates all its drive systems within its smooth hull and the drive systems must include some form of antigrav system as well as something very advanced for FTL propulsion.

Of course, that's beside the point. The main objective is to get a 3D shape that looks as close as possible to the 2D images we're familiar with. And note, too, that onscreen we get essentially only two views of the ship---from above and from below. Once we get a 3D shape we'll be able to see some interesting angles to it. I say this because I've been trying to sketch those views while trying to wrap my head around the wings flow into the fuselage.

It's going to be interesting.


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

This is pretty self-exclamatory. I might have to do so minor tweaking, but these are essentially the profiles of the fuselage.


----------



## kenlee (Feb 11, 2010)

Removed by author.


----------



## Fernando Mureb (Nov 12, 2006)

How could I miss this thread?!

Excellent work, Sir!! Thank you for posting!:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

Re: the _Phantom Cruiser._

I'm presently on my first attempt modelling this. I can see basically two ways of realizing this in 3D and either way isn't going to look completely consistent with what we see onscreen. It's just one way will look a lot more _right_ than the other.

The most familiar shot of the ship is at an angle as viewed from above. If I were to follow what the image seems to be saying then that's the only angle where the 3D model would look consistent with the onscreen image. That's because as seen from above it looks like the wings flow from the nose and back then out from the top of the fuselage. From any other angle it just wouldn't look right anymore.

However if I take into account the few other views of the ship we've seen onscreen then a credible three dimensional shape does become possible that will look consistent with the onscreen version...except when viewed from the familiar angle from above then it will deviate somewhat. That said the latter approach makes for a better result all around and will result in a model that will be instantly recognizable.

I'm looking at this from the perspective of what is the shape suggesting rather than taking every single visible line drawn literally?

I'm presently quite far along with my first attempt, but I'm convinced I can do it better (and why I'm holding off posting pics). That said I've got a lot of the essentials right, but it needs to be tweaked to get a better final result.


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

Okay, I've tweaked the shapes a bit to get closer to how I think it should look. There is an ever so small roundness to the tip of the nose, the tail and finally the wingtips, but from a distance they will look pointed. You can't really tell from the front view but the wings are meant to flow into the body so the end result shouldn't have any hard angles---every surface should (hopefully) flow into the next but for one small and subtle exception: there is a crest or subtle angle meant to run from nose to tail along the top and bottom of the craft. You can just see it in the front elevation.

I haven't any idea of scale yet, but this is supposed to be more aircraft sized rather than multi-level ship sized.


----------



## Joe Brown (Nov 16, 1999)

I'm a enthusiastic fan of the Phantom Cruiser!

Here's some potentially helpful links for the ship:

Mine, circa 1998:
http://tinyurl.com/cdpjmpb
I based mine from the art in the Big Little Book rather than the TV series.

From an Alex Toth fanpage: art, dated 1966:
http://www.tothfans.com/gallery.php?row=8&a=g0w3zqv8v7d2cfc65tbne13102007231820


More Alex Toth art:
http://webpages.charter.net/superheroes/sgalextoth1.html

Very sleek Phantom Cruiser!
http://webpages.charter.net/superheroes/sgalextothpicsg.jpg

Over on RC Groups:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1771533


Hope that helps!


----------



## kenlee (Feb 11, 2010)

Removed by author.


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

^^ In some respects, but overall it doesn't gel with screencaps from the show.


----------



## Joe Brown (Nov 16, 1999)

I fully agree with you on that -- but, one of the problems with the ship is that it often doesn't agree with *it's own screencaps* throughout an episode. :freak: Hey, they were animation artists trying to crank out a show for the kids. They weren't worried about some oddball modelers trying to make a model Phantom Cruiser 47+ years later...

It's merely a matter of picking which variant of the ship that you personally prefer, and working on that one.


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

Joe Brown said:


> I fully agree with you on that -- but, one of the problems with the ship is that it often doesn't agree with *it's own screencaps* throughout an episode. :freak: Hey, they were animation artists trying to crank out a show for the kids. They weren't worried about some oddball modelers trying to make a model Phantom Cruiser 47+ years later...
> 
> It's merely a matter of picking which variant of the ship that you personally prefer, and working on that one.


True. It's the same with the TAS ships. None of the differing images are really consistent with each other so it's a matter of trying for a shape that is generally true overall, to get a shape that is immediately recognizable no matter what angle you look at it.


----------

