# LIS Robot - Painting the 'rubber' parts.



## ClubTepes (Jul 31, 2002)

Ok, an old topic, but who successfully painted the rubber/vinyl parts on the LIS robot and what did you use that didn't flake off?

I used Tamiya fine surface primer and it flaked off a little.


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

ClubTepes said:


> Ok, an old topic, but who successfully painted the rubber/vinyl parts on the LIS robot and what did you use that didn't flake off?
> 
> I used Tamiya fine surface primer and it flaked off a little.


I sanded the arms heavily then I put epoxy putty into the arms so there would be no 'flexing' and used Dupli-Color vinyl & fabric gray that I got at an auto store. The leg parts I fabricated from scratch from epoxy putty because first season legs were not so 'even' as the kit's. So, no flaking! In my tests, nothing would adhere to the vinyl while it was still flexible, even after sanding. But sanding helps a LOT.


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

Nothing is going to stick that well to the rubbery vinyl. The more you handle them or mess with them, you risk flaking. Acrylic paints are your best bet. The vinyl parts are disappointing.


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

djnick66 said:


> Nothing is going to stick that well to the rubbery vinyl. The more you handle them or mess with them, you risk flaking. Acrylic paints are your best bet. The vinyl parts are disappointing.


The paint I found (see above) is still there, and no flaking. I think backing up the arms with epoxy putty was key. No 'flexing' = no flaking.


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## Hunch (Apr 6, 2003)

*Chincing foam*

Use that nasty, sticky, never comes off your skin chincing foam (the stuff you put around pipes, cables or anything that passes thru walls to close off so ant/critters cant move thru your home with ease out of site) to fill arms, legs and what have you once you have positioned parts correctly. This can be done as its drying if you have the patience for it.WEAR GLOVES!!!!! Once dry it becomes very hard so your figure should not move. This also works great on vinyl models once you have run them under hot water and positioned them where you want them. Then lightly sand (very fine grit so that a thin coat of rattle can grey paint or primer will smooth it out) prime and paint (enamel boys, always enamel :wink2: Sorry. I'm very old school) to your liking. I'm sure these other methods will work, this is just another option. Just dont get it on your skin or you will have to dunk your hands into a nuclear cooling rod tank to remove it. Its the messiest stuff known to man, though I dont believe it to be very harmful to your skin, it just makes everything you touch become a permanent part of your skin tone and always turns the color of DIRT even if you only handle baby powder. Dont know how, just know from experience that it does. I hate dirt on my hands. Its one of those OCD things of mine.:freak:
Jim

Oh, and by the way, has anyone found a person who offers GLASS or seamless plastic bubbles for this booby? I refuse to build him with this seam across the center of his head! OCD again.


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

Chrisisall said:


> The paint I found (see above) is still there, and no flaking. I think backing up the arms with epoxy putty was key. No 'flexing' = no flaking.


Right the flexing is the issue. Out of the box they flex and are hard to deal with. I really hate any kind of rubber or vinyl parts in kits for just that reason.


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## irishtrek (Sep 17, 2005)

Seeing as the arms and legs are already molded in a dark grey why paint them??


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

irishtrek said:


> Seeing as the arms and legs are already molded in a dark grey why paint them??


For ME? They were just too dark gray....:nerd:


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## ClubTepes (Jul 31, 2002)

irishtrek said:


> Seeing as the arms and legs are already molded in a dark grey why paint them??


Well, because it can be argued that the gray doesn't reflect the best look.


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## irishtrek (Sep 17, 2005)

Well then guys why not ask Moebius to mold them in the correct shade of grey or ask an after market company to do it??


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

SEM Vinyl Prep and Color Coat paint. The vinyl prep cleans off any mold release residue and acts as an adhesion promoter for the vinyl paint. The vinyl paint has a flexible base and will not crack or flake. I have no issues with it.


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

Trek Ace said:


> SEM Vinyl Prep and Color Coat paint. The vinyl prep cleans off any mold release residue and acts as an adhesion promoter for the vinyl paint. The vinyl paint has a flexible base and will not crack or flake. I have no issues with it.


Oh sure, tell me _now_ after ALL THAT WORK!!!

:grin2:


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

Glad to be of service.


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## ClubTepes (Jul 31, 2002)

Trek Ace said:


> SEM Vinyl Prep and Color Coat paint. The vinyl prep cleans off any mold release residue and acts as an adhesion promoter for the vinyl paint. The vinyl paint has a flexible base and will not crack or flake. I have no issues with it.


To be purchased where?

Any place other than Hobby Lobby!


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

SEM products can be found at most custom auto paint stores.

You could also probably use Dupli-Color products, as they also make vinyl paints, degreasers and adhesion promoter. What I like most about the SEM Vinyl Prep, is that it is a surface cleaner, degreaser and adhesion promoter all in one, and is specifically formulated for vinyl. As with anything that contains solvents, use proper caution when using it - good ventilation, gloves, filter mask, etc.

I used Storm Gray in the SEM Color Coat line for the robot "pants". You can choose your own color, of course, but I liked that one.


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## ThingMaker (Feb 22, 2014)

Why Moebius ever made the arms and legs in vinyl is a mystery. A pretty dumb move, IMO. Serves no purpose and only causes issues with paint and gluing.


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## Capt. Krik (May 26, 2001)

I believe Moebius' thinking was that vinyl parts could be made as a single piece. That would eliminate filling and sanding seams on the accordian style arms and legs. The trade off for not having to fill and sand seams is that you have to deal with getting paint to stick to those pieces. Not a perfect solution but what's perfect in this world. Moebius did a great job on this kit.


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

I would have dealt with micro sanding complications but yeah, the kit rocks.


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## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

ThingMaker said:


> Why Moebius ever made the arms and legs in vinyl is a mystery. A pretty dumb move, IMO. Serves no purpose and only causes issues with paint and gluing.


Well, I can see several reasons why, and from these points of view it was the perfect choice

1. replicates the 'look' of the prop suit better than solid plastic

2. if the kit is bought to be a 'costume' for a 1/6 scale figure (or the tooling re-purposed to make such a thing) it makes posing much easier

3. it reduces tooling costs by some fraction. slip-cast vinyl doesn't require tool steel or beryllium alloy molds

I don't have this kit, does it include some kind of internal skeleton so you can pose the arms and legs? Not that we saw B9 'walk' per se but it was implied that was one of his possible ways of moving. 

Nonetheless it sounds like a royal pain. I wonder if they did any research to see the horrorshow vinyl and stryene can be. Look up Bandai's 'Patlabor' kits from the '80s, someone must have commented on the severe problems of chemical interaction they had with the vinyl 'joint covers' melting the living daylights out of the kits...

(you'd think they'd be even more sensitive, given the problems with the tracks on the Chariot kit in its first run.)


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## ThingMaker (Feb 22, 2014)

Steve H said:


> Well, I can see several reasons why, and from these points of view it was the perfect choice
> 
> 1. replicates the 'look' of the prop suit better than solid plastic
> 
> ...


Yes, all those things are true (except #2- unless they are able to change the thickness of the arms they wouldn't be poseable- as they should have been). However, as with virtually every other model kit made the manufacturers expect you to paint the kits to be reflective of the subjects. The arms don't look any more like the original arms because they are vinyl than painted arms would. You could paint styrene arms the correct color and they'd look identical, too. But they made the "rubber" parts out of this material, probably to seem more like a collectable figure (ala Sideshow or Hot Toys) rather than a model kit. Perhaps they were banking on selling completed kits at some point and wanted that "action figure" aspect.




Steve H said:


> I don't have this kit, does it include some kind of internal skeleton so you can pose the arms and legs? Not that we saw B9 'walk' per se but it was implied that was one of his possible ways of moving.
> 
> Nonetheless it sounds like a royal pain. I wonder if they did any research to see the horrorshow vinyl and stryene can be. Look up Bandai's 'Patlabor' kits from the '80s, someone must have commented on the severe problems of chemical interaction they had with the vinyl 'joint covers' melting the living daylights out of the kits...
> 
> (you'd think they'd be even more sensitive, given the problems with the tracks on the Chariot kit in its first run.)


No, it's not able to be posed or moved (in regards to the arms or legs).


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## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

Thank you Thingmaker, I appreciate being able to learn. (and I still have one of my Thingmakers, the 'Peanuts' one, ha ha ha  )

So just to be clear. They made the arms out of a flexible material, and the only display option is 'arms retracted'? If you want to do anything else, even emulate the pose of the old Aurora kit, you have to come up with some kind of armature (pun not intended) to hold the arms the way you want?

Cripes. They could have invested in some multi-part moving mold and cast them as 'tubes' in styrene and be done with it. Or even just went ahead and mold them as two styrene parts, the scale is such that sanding the seam wouldn't be hard, just tedious. 

I think you're right, they were thinking more towards a 'completed display model' than anything else. That seems to be the 'new HOT HOT HOT' marketing idea.


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## ThingMaker (Feb 22, 2014)

Steve H said:


> Thank you Thingmaker, I appreciate being able to learn. (and I still have one of my Thingmakers, the 'Peanuts' one, ha ha ha  )
> 
> So just to be clear. They made the arms out of a flexible material, and the only display option is 'arms retracted'? If you want to do anything else, even emulate the pose of the old Aurora kit, you have to come up with some kind of armature (pun not intended) to hold the arms the way you want?
> 
> ...


Actually, unfortunately the arms are too thick to pose even with a wire armature inside. :frown2: The retraced arms are extra parts, which is a good idea because you'd never be able to have them retracted and look real at this scale, and in this pose they don't need to bend, so these could/should have been styrene. So you have two build options, use the retraced arms or use the extended arms. But I wish they just did styrene or truly bendable arms. It's a nice kit regardless. But I just wonder if the vinyl will interact with the plastic at some point.


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

ThingMaker said:


> So you have two build options, use the retraced arms or use the extended arms.


I went half & half.


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## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

ThingMaker said:


> Actually, unfortunately the arms are too thick to pose even with a wire armature inside. :frown2: The retraced arms are extra parts, which is a good idea because you'd never be able to have them retracted and look real at this scale, and in this pose they don't need to bend, so these could/should have been styrene. So you have two build options, use the retraced arms or use the extended arms. But I wish they just did styrene or truly bendable arms. It's a nice kit regardless. But I just wonder if the vinyl will interact with the plastic at some point.


See, this is what happens when one (me) makes assumptions. When people mentioned these parts were made of vinyl, I foolishly assumed they were thin, like the flex in a drinking straw (or the container of the sugary drink 'Burple'. Remember that? Open the top, un-accordion the container making a *brrruupl* sound, add water, shake, and you have Kool-Aid substitute), but what is being said here tells me that assumption is completely wrong, and the parts are more like PVC pipe. 

So again yikes, that's just dumb. If it's anything like the 'hard vinyl' that Tsukuba Hobbies made their giant figure kits out of, that stuff is a king bitch to work with. Nothing sticks to it. I can't even remember what I had to do so paint didn't flake off the figure, I think it was some kind of nasty sealer that gave enough 'bite' for paint to not peel off. 

Bah.


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## scooke123 (Apr 11, 2008)

:beatdeadhorse: I think this was well discussed way back when the kit was released, not that big of a deal in the overall scheme of the kit.


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## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

Dead horses are the best ones to beat, because live ones might fight back.


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## teslabe (Oct 20, 2007)

I had no problem with the way Moebius did the legs or arms, for me I just love the kit and I'm happy with how it came out, but that's just me......:wink2:


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

teslabe said:


> I had no problem with the way Moebius did the legs or arms, for me I just love the kit and I'm happy with how it came out, but that's just me......:wink2:


LOL, have you sold the unused Masudaya kit(s) yet?:grin2:


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## Zathros (Dec 21, 2000)

* I dunno..lol..I got in this late, but I am scratchin my head on the paint issue...I built my robot shortly after it came out. I used vinyl automotive primer and paint on the legs and arms and never had an issue...not one bit faked off or came off. I learned that from painting the masudaya YM 3. I thought that was common knowledge by now...just sayin'..no offense.


Z *


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

Zathros said:


> * I dunno..lol..I got in this late, but I am scratchin my head on the paint issue...I built my robot shortly after it came out. I used vinyl automotive primer and paint on the legs and arms and never had an issue...not one bit faked off or came off. I learned that from painting the masudaya YM 3. I thought that was common knowledge by now...just sayin'..no offense.
> 
> 
> Z *


Have you squeezed them (hard) recently???:grin2:

Just kidding. Some automotive primer is crazy stuff. The worse it smells the better it primes, even on vinyl.


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## ClubTepes (Jul 31, 2002)

scooke123 said:


> :beatdeadhorse: I think this was well discussed way back when the kit was released, not that big of a deal in the overall scheme of the kit.


Yes, but some of us don't build right away when things were discussed.

And in the meantime, members come and go and a newer person might have done something differently that hadn't been part of the previous discussion.

And finally, a seemingly really good technique from before might not have aged that well.


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## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

ClubTepes said:


> Yes, but some of us don't build right away when things were discussed.
> 
> And in the meantime, members come and go and a newer person might have done something differently that hadn't been part of the previous discussion.
> 
> And finally, a seemingly really good technique from before might not have aged that well.


And links die, and better products come along, and so on. 

And dead horses can't run away :devil:


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

I thought about recasting the arms in resin (would have solved some problems but man, the time involved...) for about a second.


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## htmagic (Mar 7, 2017)

ClubTepes said:


> Yes, but some of us don't build right away when things were discussed.
> 
> And in the meantime, members come and go and a newer person might have done something differently that hadn't been part of the previous discussion.
> 
> And finally, a seemingly really good technique from before might not have aged that well.





Steve H said:


> And links die, and better products come along, and so on.
> 
> And dead horses can't run away :devil:


Folks,

All of these are true. I just picked up a LIS Moebius B9 Robot kit.
I've been following the threads of the previous builds and was amazed by the talent and ingenuity of some of the modelers.
I'm in the process of collecting parts for the build and don't expect it will be fast but want to follow in the footsteps of some of the previous builds.

So I for one am glad people are still talking about this as I'm still learning.

May the *FORCE *be with you and have a magical day!

MagicBill


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