# Second Pilot Enterprise



## Gregatron (Mar 29, 2008)

_"We're leaving the galaxy, Mr. Mitchell! Ahead, warp factor one." _



My Polar Lights 1/1000 second pilot _Enterprise_ is done! As before, much time was taken to carefully research every last detail of this version. Although there's a good amount of reference material available, some details have been troublesome to pin down.

But, I daresay that my buildup may again be one of the most accurate builds ever done, in terms of detailing--right down to the three (!) windows on the bridge dome, the white blinker lights on the upper saucer, and the unique window pattern for this version.

And it was a REAL paint to carefully trim and splice window elements from several decal sheets to get the correct pattern of "lit" and black windows. That work nearly got my eyes to permanently cross!

This incarnation of the ship is an interesting transitional step between the first pilot and the series. Roddenberry clearly wanted more detailing, but the excessive use of black (the saucer stripes, the impulse and nacelle vents, etc.) was presumably deemed a little too busy, and was removed for the final version. This was also the first version to incorporate lights, and I must say I'm rather fond of the well-placed anti-collision strobes on this version.

This version was seen in every single episode of TOS, via stock footage (in the episodes proper, the main/end credits, or both), and so I suppose it has as solid a claim to being the "real" ship as the production version does!

The weathering on the real model appears to have been significantly toned-down from the first pilot version, no doubt because of partial repaints with the base color, since the change from painted registry markings to reversible decals was made for this version. That said, traces of the original weathering remained, and I replicated this on my build.

Also, I was bothered by the kit's stock parts--the second pilot nacelle endcaps feature a series of holes to represent the grilles--on the original, these were painted.

So, I smoothed a set of endcaps, and designed/printed my very first custom decals--and they turned out great! I think it looks much better and more authentic than painted holes on the stock parts would have.
































http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g212/GregKirkman/Stuff016-1.jpg 

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g212/GregKirkman/Stuff014-1.jpg 

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g212/GregKirkman/Stuff013-1.jpg 

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g212/GregKirkman/Stuff012-1.jpg 

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g212/GregKirkman/Stuff011-1.jpg 

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g212/GregKirkman/Stuff010-3.jpg 

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g212/GregKirkman/Stuff002-9.jpg 



Angles never-before-seen in TOS! 

Oh, wait... 


http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g212/GregKirkman/Stuff008-5.jpg 

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g212/GregKirkman/Stuff004-6.jpg 

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g212/GregKirkman/Stuff005-5.jpg 

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g212/GregKirkman/Stuff006-6.jpg 



Shots from that "lost" time-travel episode where Kirk and Pike meet up and have an adventure: 

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g212/GregKirkman/Stuff018-1.jpg 

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g212/GregKirkman/Stuff019-1.jpg


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## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

Beautiful job on this classic ship!


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## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

Looks great.

Were the neck and dorsal areas really light blue?


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## Gregatron (Mar 29, 2008)

Everything I've seen indicates that was the case.

For the series, only the leading edge was blue, and the linear accelerator was repainted the dark gray highlight color seen on the nacelles.


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## Fraley1701 (Sep 3, 2003)

Gregatron said:


> Everything I've seen indicates that was the case.
> 
> For the series, only the leading edge was blue, and the linear accelerator was repainted the dark gray highlight color seen on the nacelles.


Nice build you have there. I am not certain about the light blue colors however. I would love to see your references you used. In any event, you did a fine job on these builds and should be proud of your interpretation! :thumbsup:


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## kdaracal (Jan 24, 2009)

Really nice to see the meticulous research. You do the hobby proud. I think if you add in grainy film and 60's lighting, those blue areas would be spot on. It's just that folks aren't used to seeing it in all its perfection, static high-quality photos and all. 

Yea, this has been a heluva summer for spectacular Trek builds.........What a blessing to be involved with HobbyTalk right now.


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## Maritain (Jan 16, 2008)

Excellent Job!


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## hubert (May 3, 2008)

Absolutely beautiful. The blue does stand out.

Although I like it, I wonder if it wouldn't make for a big bulls-eye for every bad guy .


Nice work!


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## Gregatron (Mar 29, 2008)

Fraley1701 said:


> Nice build you have there. I am not certain about the light blue colors however. I would love to see your references you used. In any event, you did a fine job on these builds and should be proud of your interpretation! :thumbsup:



Check out screencaps and photos, and you'll see the blue tint for both pilot versions.


http://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=20

http://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=32&page=2

http://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=24&page=10


http://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=79&page=9


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## galaxy_jason (May 19, 2009)

Very nice!


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## Larry523 (Feb 16, 2010)

Gregatron said:


> Check out screencaps and photos, and you'll see the blue tint for both pilot versions.
> 
> 
> http://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=20
> ...


Gorgeous builds, but I'm not convinced on the colors. I think the blue tint was an artifact of the lighting. I think the blue tint might be some backsplash from the bluescreens the model was filmed against. They not only had a blue background behind the model, but they also draped the stand supporting the model with blue cloth and I think that might be what's producing the odd blue reflections on the model. This is especially noticeable on the second link in your post, in the "mirror" version of the Enterprise. You can see a bluish reflection in the shading of the underside of the saucer. It's just a theory, and wouldn't be the first time I'd been wrong (the second or third, perhaps). Nevertheless, you did a beautiful job with both builds! :thumbsup:


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## Gary K (Aug 26, 2002)

Carson Dyle said:


> Looks great.
> 
> Were the neck and dorsal areas really light blue?


Actually, the blue dorsal was only on the 1st Pilot model, which was filmed against a black backdrop. The 2nd Pilot model was filmed against a blue screen, so the dorsal was repainted hull color, without the greenish leading edge that was present on the Production version. 

I've seen two cropped images of the dorsal that were taken during the 11-footer's rollout. These are b&w and color photos that haven't been released to the public, and they were taken from different angles. The dorsal appears to have a glossy, metallic sheen in these pictures. The dorsal's bluish cast in the outdoor photos *could* have been caused by the paint reflecting the blue sky, but I think the dorsal actually was blue since it also appears blue on the sound stage when no blue screen was present. And no, unfortunately I don't have copies of the photos to share.

My best guess is that the dorsal was sprayed aluminum, then was sprayed with a thin coat of glossy, transparent blue. It reminds me of the candy color paints that were popular on model cars in the 60s & 70s.

Anyhow, that's my 2-cents.

Gary


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## Fraley1701 (Sep 3, 2003)

Gregatron said:


> Check out screencaps and photos, and you'll see the blue tint for both pilot versions.
> 
> 
> http://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=20
> ...


I personally would never count on video screen caps as a source for color accuracy on any model. It has been discussed, debated, and proven that what you see on the screen is different than how a model is actually rendered. I have seen color pictures of the original filming model (including the 2nd pilot version) against a blue back ground. I think I understand enough about the blue screen process and the technology available at the time to shed doubt that blue paint would have been used on the model (IMHO). However, I also understand that color is based on perception and not everyone see's it quite the same way. Therefore, I am not saying you are wrong based on your interpretation; I am saying I don't see it the same way. I still think you have a good looking build up here. :thumbsup:


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## Gregatron (Mar 29, 2008)

I've looked at the same shots as seen in many different episodes in different formats (DVD, Blu-Ray, etc.) and playing with color and contrast controls all throughout--while there is variance in the color tint of footage, poor compositing, etc., the blue color of the dorsal is pretty consistent across a wide range of sources. 

The "Mirror, Mirror" shot skews overall toward the blue, yes, but there's still a perceptable tonal difference between the dorsal and the rest of the hull. It can be better seen in other episodes and photos, though.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/birdofthegalaxy/4235177735/sizes/l/in/set-72157619514479789/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/birdofthegalaxy/3514947525/sizes/l/in/set-72157619514479789/


And to look at a screencap, for example...











We can see that the dorsal seems to have a blue-ish tint, right? And when we invert the colors, the tonal difference between the dorsal and the rest of the hull becomes more obvious. When one watches shots like this in motion, the color seems pretty darn consistent--in a wide range of shots, too.


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## Gregatron (Mar 29, 2008)

Gary K said:


> Actually, the blue dorsal was only on the 1st Pilot model, which was filmed against a black backdrop. The 2nd Pilot model was filmed against a blue screen, so the dorsal was repainted hull color, without the greenish leading edge that was present on the Production version.
> 
> I've seen two cropped images of the dorsal that were taken during the 11-footer's rollout. These are b&w and color photos that haven't been released to the public, and they were taken from different angles. The dorsal appears to have a glossy, metallic sheen in these pictures. The dorsal's bluish cast in the outdoor photos *could* have been caused by the paint reflecting the blue sky, but I think the dorsal actually was blue since it also appears blue on the sound stage when no blue screen was present. And no, unfortunately I don't have copies of the photos to share.
> 
> ...




Thanks for the info!


I still think that the second pilot version had a blue-ish dorsal, too--perhaps not as glossy-looking as the first pilot's, but still different from the rest of the hull. Perhaps more of a matte gray-blue. It still stands out as blue-ish in certain shots, like in the very clean composites from "The Paradise Syndrome". 

The unaired WNMHGB seen on Blu-Ray also shows a difference in tone on the dorsal from the rest of the model. In fact, the 35mm print used for that version's BD incarnation shows a number of interesting color differences--the uniform shirts look greener, for instance (which makes them closer to their real-life avocado green hue). The weathering is also more apparent in the unaired BD version of the episode than the aired version, due to the different transfer's color timing, apparently.


And based on other screencaps from a number of episodes, I still think that the leading edge of the production dorsal leans more toward a sky blue than a greenish.


But, anyway, if better info and references come out, I'd be happy to repaint and redecal my model's dorsal (well, it would be a pain to redecal, but I'd still do it).


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## Gregatron (Mar 29, 2008)

Okay, inspired by this discussion, I rechecked my references, and popped in several discs for quick viewing.

Looking at several composites from several episodes across all three seasons, I stand by my assertion that the second pilot dorsal was, at the very least, painted a different color from the rest of the hull. It appears to be a blue-gray-green-ish color. This is more prominent in composites that are more washed-out and/or don't skew toward blue tones. As much as I hate to disagree with the esteemed Mr. Kerr, I just don't see the dorsal being hull color in the second pilot. 

It's perhaps not as pronouced as the very metallic(?) blue shade of the first pilot, but it is still distinct, and not at all a straight hull-color repaint. At least not to my eye.

My guess is that a repaint *was* done to avoid bluescreen problems and/or to cover up damage done when cutting out the windows for the lighting system. And I'd say it maybe one of the following two methods was employed:

A) They misted the base color over the dorsal to tone it down.

B. They mixed up a different color to repaint with, one that was more blue-gray-ish, but still similar enough to the first version to be used without causing problems.


I may be wrong about the above theory, but, as noted, I stand by my belief that the dorsal was NOT merely the hull color during the second pilot's filming.


Of course, this isn't about proving each other wrong, or clinging to old myths. We're here to discuss! I'd hate to see this turn into a petty argument. And I'd love to see what everyone else thinks about all this. Maybe some new research will come out of this! Have at it!


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## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

Fascinating thread. Discussions like this are why this forum exists. 

Just when you think you know everything there is to know about this particular subject.



I posted my original comment because, given what we know about 60's era miniature FX photography, it seems strange that a model intended for photography against a blue screen would have been painted blue (even Luke's Blue 5 starfighter became Red 5 prior to being shot). The "blue" thing just seems counter-intuitive from a production standpoint. 

Where's that link to Richard Datin's revision notes when you need it?...


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## Gary K (Aug 26, 2002)

After re-re-reviewing my frame caps, it appears that the dorsal on the 2nd Pilot model might have been a slightly different shade of gray than the rest of the hull, but I need better ref photos than the ones I already have. I have the Remastered series on Blu-ray, but (long story) I don't yet have a Blu-ray player on my computer or attached to the TV. Anybody up for making Blu-ray screen caps of the 2nd Pilot model - such as the flip-flopping shot of the Enterprise in "Mirror, Mirror"?

Btw, in 1991 I got to examine & help disassemble the 11-foot Enterprise before it was restored. At that point the top of the saucer had been untouched by any of the previous restorations, and there wasn't a hint of blue paint, which would interfere with the blue screen process, anywhere on the saucer. Aside from the red, yellow, and black markings, all the weathering was in shades of green, brown, and gray. The shading around the edges of the bridge & upper decks was a darker muted green, which I've been told, photographed essentially as gray on the Kodak film stock they used in the 60s. This is why, combined with an examination of several less washed out photos of the dorsal that I've seen, I think the leading edge of the Production version's dorsal was gray-green, not bluish. If anybody has the Remastered Blu-rays, there are a number of decent shots of the dorsal as Lokai & Bele battle for control of the ship in "Let That be Your Last Battlefield".

Gary


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## Gregatron (Mar 29, 2008)

Gary K said:


> After re-re-reviewing my frame caps, it appears that the dorsal on the 2nd Pilot model might have been a slightly different shade of gray than the rest of the hull, but I need better ref photos than the ones I already have. I have the Remastered series on Blu-ray, but (long story) I don't yet have a Blu-ray player on my computer or attached to the TV. Anybody up for making Blu-ray screen caps of the 2nd Pilot model - such as the flip-flopping shot of the Enterprise in "Mirror, Mirror"?
> 
> Btw, in 1991 I got to examine & help disassemble the 11-foot Enterprise before it was restored. At that point the top of the saucer had been untouched by any of the previous restorations, and there wasn't a hint of blue paint, which would interfere with the blue screen process, anywhere on the saucer. Aside from the red, yellow, and black markings, all the weathering was in shades of green, brown, and gray. The shading around the edges of the bridge & upper decks was a darker muted green, which I've been told, photographed essentially as gray on the Kodak film stock they used in the 60s. This is why, combined with an examination of several less washed out photos of the dorsal that I've seen, I think the leading edge of the Production version's dorsal was gray-green, not bluish. If anybody has the Remastered Blu-rays, there are a number of decent shots of the dorsal as Lokai & Bele battle for control of the ship in "Let That be Your Last Battlefield".
> 
> Gary



Interesting stuff.

I think trekcore.com has some BD caps of the original effects shots in their screencap galleries, which mostly show the Remastered CG versions (with the original stuff kept in the regular DVD cap sections).

In some cases, I think the DVDs look better than the BDs in terms of the effects shots--the opening zoom-in from the first pilot, for example, is much more colorful (and useful for reference) on DVD than the BD version (which almost looks black and white!).


Having reviewed several episodes last night, I'd say it's indeed possible that the dorsal was a green-gray color--but it's definitely distinctly different from the rest. It does come across as blue-gray in many shots in the episodes, however. It's particularly noticable in the opening and closing flybys from the unaired 35mm version of the second pilot.

I stuck with blue-ish for my build because it's close to the first pilot version, that's what my research indicates, and because I like the look! Mileage may vary!


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## Fraley1701 (Sep 3, 2003)

Gregatron said:


> Interesting stuff.
> 
> I think trekcore.com has some BD caps of the original effects shots in their screencap galleries, which mostly show the Remastered CG versions (with the original stuff kept in the regular DVD cap sections).
> 
> ...


All that really matters is that you are satisfied with the colors you have chosen for your interpretation of the 2nd pilot Enterprise. One of my first builds of the original AMT Enterprise was essentially painted the way it looked to me on TV; overall white! This was before we had the plethora of reference material available to us today! I remember being very satisfied with the colors of my model and how shocked I was when I discovered that the actual filming miniature was painted an overall "concrete" color! In any event, you have built a very nice replica of a classic television icon that still envokes a lot of passion amongst it's fans. If the blue looks right to you, then I would not change it. Keep on Trekken! :thumbsup:


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## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

I'm all for the "paint it the way it looks good to you" methodology, but I also like knowing, whenever possible, the colors and shades utilized to achieve the original finish. 

Mind you, I may not always adhere to a given FX miniature's paint scheme, but I certainly want my choices to be _informed_ by the original models to the fullest extent possible.

That's why threads like this are so (potentially) valuable to the modeler. If one can weed out the misinformation that occasionally pops up, there's informational gold to be mined.

I'm still a little unresolved re: the "blue neck" issues, but I plan to keep an open mind pending further investigation.


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## Fraley1701 (Sep 3, 2003)

Carson Dyle said:


> I'm still a little unresolved re: the "blue neck" issues, but I plan to keep an open mind pending further investigation.


Me too and well said! Always keep an open mind! :thumbsup:


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## Gregatron (Mar 29, 2008)

Carson Dyle said:


> I'm all for the "paint it the way it looks good to you" methodology, but I also like knowing, whenever possible, the colors and shades utilized to achieve the original finish.
> 
> Mind you, I may not always adhere to a given FX miniature's paint scheme, but I certainly want my choices to be _informed_ by the original models to the fullest extent possible.
> 
> ...



Ditto.

I've had an ongoing thread at Starship Modeler to research all three versions--I supposed I should have had one going here, too!

http://www.starshipmodeler.net/talk/viewtopic.php?t=78639


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## mach7 (Mar 25, 2002)

I just watched the bluray, and it looks to me that the screen cap's might have been enhanced. All the ship colors look much deeper than in the bluray copy.

On screen, from the bluray I can see no blue at all on the neck, but all the colors look muted. 

Also if I remember correctly, the big Enterprise is only in a few scenes in the Cage. And I believe it was shot with a blue screen/matt, only the 3ft was filmed with a black backdrop, but my memory could be wrong on this.

What ever the outcome, it is a very nice build.

Mark


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## Landru (May 25, 2009)

Gary K said:


> After re-re-reviewing my frame caps, it appears that the dorsal on the 2nd Pilot model might have been a slightly different shade of gray than the rest of the hull, but I need better ref photos than the ones I already have. I have the Remastered series on Blu-ray, but (long story) I don't yet have a Blu-ray player on my computer or attached to the TV. Anybody up for making Blu-ray screen caps of the 2nd Pilot model - such as the flip-flopping shot of the Enterprise in "Mirror, Mirror"?
> 
> Btw, in 1991 I got to examine & help disassemble the 11-foot Enterprise before it was restored. At that point the top of the saucer had been untouched by any of the previous restorations, and there wasn't a hint of blue paint, which would interfere with the blue screen process, anywhere on the saucer. Aside from the red, yellow, and black markings, all the weathering was in shades of green, brown, and gray. The shading around the edges of the bridge & upper decks was a darker muted green, which I've been told, photographed essentially as gray on the Kodak film stock they used in the 60s. This is why, combined with an examination of several less washed out photos of the dorsal that I've seen, I think the leading edge of the Production version's dorsal was gray-green, not bluish. If anybody has the Remastered Blu-rays, there are a number of decent shots of the dorsal as Lokai & Bele battle for control of the ship in "Let That be Your Last Battlefield".
> 
> Gary


Can you explain in more detail, the unrealeased photos of the original 11 footer ??


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## Gary K (Aug 26, 2002)

Landru said:


> Can you explain in more detail, the unrealeased photos of the original 11 footer ??


Additional photos from the 11' model's rollout are in a private collection (not mine), and I was able to view cropped versions of two photos that showed the dorsal. Needless to say, I'd love to see the entire set of photos someday, but I'm not sure that will happen.

Gary


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Great detail to have noticed! I've never paid as much attention to this version of the 1701 since I consider it to be a bit awkward compared to the earlier and later versions.

I think the frequent shifting between blue and green in a lot of shots probably led to the blue look you picked up on when it was probably actually greenish. It's possible the production version was left with that greenish color on just the leading edge there as they repainted/redetailed the model and the rest of the neck was painted hull color.

The model is perfection, BTW, no matter what the color actually was. :thumbsup:


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## scottnkat (May 11, 2006)

I never paid attention to the dorsal color when watching those old shows - then you showed us your model from the 1st pilot and I went and took a look. Now I see this model and I am awed. You've inspired me to get going on my 1:1000 Enterprise models. My wife bought me five of them so I can do 1st pilot, 2nd pilot, series, mirror universe, and the 1701-M from Star Trek: Of Gods and Men. I just hope mine come out as nice as yours have. Thank you


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## Gary K (Aug 26, 2002)

PerfesserCoffee said:


> I think the frequent shifting between blue and green in a lot of shots probably led to the blue look you picked up on when it was probably actually greenish. It's possible the production version was left with that greenish color on just the leading edge there as they repainted/redetailed the model and the rest of the neck was painted hull color.
> 
> The model is perfection, BTW, no matter what the color actually was. :thumbsup:


The blue dorsal on the 1st Pilot version had a glossy finish, but the green leading edge of the Production version had a flat finish - so I think the green leading edge on the Production version must have been painted during the model's conversion into the Production version.

To add to the fun, there are photos of the 11-footer that were taken between the two Pilot versions. I've seen photos of the 11-footer with 2nd Pilot saucer markings, but no detail on the rear end of the nacelles. The 1.5 Pilot version??

Gary


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

Fascinating discussion. Could the dorsal on the P1 version sheathed in any material such as metal or plastic that could have resulted in the top coat showing as a different color?
Also, wanted to ask for a long time now: was there really a red ring under the bridge on the P1 version? I just don't see it on the reference photos on SSM.


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## Gregatron (Mar 29, 2008)

Y'see, I DO see that red ring.


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## Gregatron (Mar 29, 2008)

Gary K said:


> The blue dorsal on the 1st Pilot version had a glossy finish, but the green leading edge of the Production version had a flat finish - so I think the green leading edge on the Production version must have been painted during the model's conversion into the Production version.
> 
> To add to the fun, there are photos of the 11-footer that were taken between the two Pilot versions. I've seen photos of the 11-footer with 2nd Pilot saucer markings, but no detail on the rear end of the nacelles. The 1.5 Pilot version??
> 
> Gary



Thomas Sasser first brought the "Pilot 1.5" (his term) version to my attention. It does appear to be a transitional step between the two pilot version. Some of the shots can be seen here:

http://www.startrekhistory.com/models.html


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## mach7 (Mar 25, 2002)

Great site! 

But none of the photos of the early Enterprise show any sign of a blue neck.

That does not take anything away from your nice build.


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## kenlee (Feb 11, 2010)

mach7 said:


> Great site!
> 
> But none of the photos of the early Enterprise show any sign of a blue neck.
> 
> That does not take anything away from your nice build.


Actually, this image from that site under the pictures of the 3 ft Enterprise does seem to show a blue tint to the dorsal support.


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## Gary K (Aug 26, 2002)

kenlee said:


> Actually, this image from that site under the pictures of the 3 ft Enterprise does seem to show a blue tint to the dorsal support.


I seem to recall hearing that many of the original photos on the site were so badly color-shifted into magenta that the color was completely removed and the photos were manually colorized. I wouldn't bet my life on this story, so if anyone has first-hand knowledge regarding the origin of these photos, this would be a good time to pipe up.

Gary


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## Gregatron (Mar 29, 2008)

One of the reasons I'm on the blue dorsal side of the discussion is because a great many reference shots from startrekhistory and so on are restored 35mm film trims and clips, color-corrected and digitally cleaned-up. So, many of these shots show a neck that's hull-colored, probably because the people color-correcting the film clips didn't know any better.

Some of the film clips look pretty good though, and DO show that blue neck. For example:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/birdofthegalaxy/sets/72157619514479789/


As my primary resource, I've used the episodes themselves, in several formats. Although film stocks, compositing quality, remastering, and other factors vary, I still maintain that the tonal difference of the dorsal (which more often than not looks blue or blue-gray) is consistently there across a wide range of shots, both on DVD and BD, from the first model shot in the first pilot to the very last shot of the last episode. It's not always visible, but it's visible enough to have convinced me.


http://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=20


http://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=99&page=17


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## Gary K (Aug 26, 2002)

Gregatron said:


> One of the reasons I'm on the blue dorsal side of the discussion is because a great many reference shots from startrekhistory and so on are restored 35mm film trims and clips, color-corrected and digitally cleaned-up. So, many of these shots show a neck that's hull-colored, probably because the people color-correcting the film clips didn't know any better.
> 
> Some of the film clips look pretty good though, and DO show that blue neck. For example:
> 
> ...


I completely agree. Even if the color has been altered, you can see the glossy finish on the dorsal in many photos - quite distinct from the flat finish on the rest of the ship.

Gary


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## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

In the revision notes section of the trek history site mention is made of the "blue" neck.

The same set of notes alludes to the addition of the notorious "nipple containing phaser turret" to the lower sensor dome (i.e. the heatedly debated subject of another Hobbytalk thread).

I'm not sure who compiled these notes originally, but I could have sworn they came from a log kept by the model makers themselves (hence the reference to specific dollar amounts charged for the work completed).

Point being that if the model makers made a note recounting that, among other revisions, the blue neck was retouched to more closely match the finish of the hull proper, it stands to reason they weren't just making it up.


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## Gregatron (Mar 29, 2008)

And here's but a small sample of what I'm talking about, in terms of the problems with film stock and compositing. 

The different tone of the dorsal can be seen in a few of these screencaps, but is washed out in many of them (particularly the ones that skew toward a blue tone overall).


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## mach7 (Mar 25, 2002)

Hmm. That flikr photo does look like it is blue. Interesting. But I also see a blue line at the forward edge, almost like a blue mat line.

What confuses me is I am watching the unaltered Blu-ray of "The Cage" and I see no hint of blue at all. The color on the disk is superb, so I don't know why it would not show up. The ship shots don't look as high of a quality as the rest of the show.


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## Gregatron (Mar 29, 2008)

But the blue can be clearly seen in the DVD version of the first pilot (which is where the trekcore screencaps come from).

For some reason, the BD version is much less colorful than the DVD.


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

Carson Dyle said:


> I'm not sure who compiled these notes originally, but I could have sworn they came from a log kept by the model makers themselves (hence the reference to specific dollar amounts charged for the work completed).
> 
> Point being that if the model makers made a note recounting that, among other revisions, the blue neck was retouched to more closely match the finish of the hull proper, it stands to reason they weren't just making it up.


Are you referring to the list of changes shown on this page? It seems to list the change from the bluish dorsal happening during the production changes.


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## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

Thanks, Shaw.

Those are indeed the change notes I was referring to. Thanks for tracking them down.


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## startrekhistory (Apr 16, 2010)

The referred list of changes on my site was originally brought to my attention several years ago by Petri Blomqvist, an excellent computer graphics modeler with a passion for Star Trek. (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2951991/). 

I forwarded the list Petri gave me to Richard Datin, the builder of the Enterprise model, for confirmation and/or corrections. The list on startrekhistory.com is an accurate accounting of the updates made to the big E. 

Hope this helps!


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## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

Thanks for chiming in startrekhistory (and congrats on your wonderfully informative site).

The fact that the "blue" dorsal is referenced in so authoritative a document lends a significant amount of credence, IMO, to its presence on the pilot versions of the model (more credence, frankly, than any of the photographic reference I've seen thus far).

I simply don't believe the feature in question would have been mentioned in such a context if it hadn't at one point existed.

So I guess now we can argue about what _shade_ of blue was used...



Apologies to Gregatron; I feel we've hijacked your thread, but I want to thank you again for having taken the time to post shots of your beautifully executed model. I don't know about anyone else, but it's really made me want to get to work on my own version of the Pilot 1701...


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## Gregatron (Mar 29, 2008)

No worries at all! I'm happy to have begun this--and frankly, I knew that my cholor choice would be controversial, and would likely stir something like this up.


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## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

It's just surprising, that's all. Blue dorsal... who knew? 

Obviously you did, but it kinda makes me wonder what other surprises this endearingly fascinating subject may yet hold.


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## jheilman (Aug 30, 2001)

As Carson mentioned, just when you think you knew everything about the big E, something new pops up. 

Fascinating is all I can say. I wonder what the original reasoning was behind making the dorsal a unique color? Was it to look as though it was made of a different (stronger) material?


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

This is great stuff! Thanks so much for sharing all this. Looking forward to watching your progress on the other miniatures. Two of mine came off the ceiling (poltergeist of some kind) of my model room this summer so repainting isn't even a choice. I Do see that ring! Somehow I'd been looking at the base of the wrong part. Oh, (and definitely not the least), beautiful work on your models, too!


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## Landru (May 25, 2009)

I think that the discussions over at SSM and here will spark a new era of Star Trek modelling. I think we will see more and more build ups with the blue dorsal, I'm happy to have been a part of it over at SSM. 

Since we have more or less established that the blue dorsal theory is a little more than just a theory now, lets start talking about that red pinstripe at the base of the bridge... 

Again Greg, great model!

... Is there any possiblity that these private photo collections will ever see the light of day??


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## Fraley1701 (Sep 3, 2003)

startrekhistory said:


> The referred list of changes on my site was originally brought to my attention several years ago by Petri Blomqvist, an excellent computer graphics modeler with a passion for Star Trek. (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2951991/).
> 
> I forwarded the list Petri gave me to Richard Datin, the builder of the Enterprise model, for confirmation and/or corrections. The list on startrekhistory.com is an accurate accounting of the updates made to the big E.
> 
> Hope this helps!


Are you affirming that Mr. Datin has confirmed that the dorsal strut between the primary and secondary hull was in fact blue? I apologize if I am in the minority and still skeptical, but I just do not, nor have not seen anything here that convinces me that this was the original color. I acknowledege the difference in tone and can see a glossy finish on the dorsal strut as opposed to the flat finish on the leading edge of the production version. This in fact makes me believe the faint blue hue is a reflection from the blue screen process. 

Having worked for over 20 years in the aviation industry and knowing that Matt Jefferies was also an aviation buff, I can see no logical reason to paint the dorsal strut a different color than the rest of the hull in this particular instance. Unless, Mr. Datin exercised artistic license and just thought it looked cool! This may very well be the case, but until I see some untouched photographic evidence, I am afraid I well remain a skeptic. :thumbsup:


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

Fraley1701 said:


> Are you affirming that Mr. Datin has confirmed that the dorsal strut between the primary and secondary hull was in fact blue? I apologize if I am in the minority and still skeptical, but I just do not, nor have not seen anything here that convinces me that this was the original color. I acknowledege the difference in tone and can see a glossy finish on the dorsal strut as opposed to the flat finish on the leading edge of the production version. This in fact makes me believe the faint blue hue is a reflection from the blue screen process.
> 
> Having worked for over 20 years in the aviation industry and knowing that Matt Jefferies was also an aviation buff, I can see no logical reason to paint the dorsal strut a different color than the rest of the hull in this particular instance. Unless, Mr. Datin exercised artistic license and just thought it looked cool! This may very well be the case, but until I see some untouched photographic evidence, I am afraid I well remain a skeptic. :thumbsup:


Seems rather foolish, and arrogant, to argue with the man who BUILT the model 45 years ago, a model that we all try to copy. I would take him at his word before I would believe an old faded picture that can be "color corrected" to fit any point of view. As for Mister Jefferies, I doubt very much he had any say in the colors the ship was painted. That, of course, is just my point of view!


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## mach7 (Mar 25, 2002)

No, not foolish or arrogant at all.

Remember that this was all done in 1964 by people who were doing a job, Not working on a labour of love. Sometimes people mis-remember things from long ago. 

There is a very good reason for it NOT to be painted blue. The matt process "removes" that color during the optical process. Also if it was blue, why has it not been noticed until now? Can we say every photo was retouched or color corrected that we have seen in the past? How reasonable is that? Also was any blue paint found on the neck during the last restoration (Maybe, but I've never read about it)

I'm not saying it wasn't blue, I'm just saying I'm skeptical. I think Fraley1701 just expressed that he is also, but I don't want to speak for him.

Having said that I went back and watched the DVD version of "The Cage" and it does look like the neck does have a slight blue tint. Looking at the stills on Star Trek History it does look like the neck has a different finish (more gloss) than the rest of the ship. It would seen to me that what we are seeing is a reflection of the blue screen on the neck due to it having a more glossy finish. Of course I could be wrong and I will keep an open mind about the neck.

What is really important is this whole debate gave me a reason to go back and watch "The Cage" again. The production really was top notch!


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

The best reference for molders, to me, is firsthand account or the actual, not re-painted original model. Pictures, especially from the '60's are of almost no use. The light needed to photograph things in color back then required an immense saturation. This rendered the gray color of the ship almost white; imagine what it would have done to the light blue on the dorsal. Also, bluescreen only removes a certain shade of blue, not all blue, if it was a light powder blue, it would not be a problem. Superman's costume in the Reeve films is a good example. Bluescreen was used in a number of scenes. A blue for the costume had to be found that would not interfere with the process bluescreen. It can be done! Also, I believe someone said that the footage for "The Cage" was shot against black, bluescreen was not used until "WNMHGB". The records also indicate that is when the change in color occurred.

Again, I would side with someone who had their hands on the ACTUAL model in 1964!
Just my two cents.


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## Gary K (Aug 26, 2002)

I thought I should post several of the highest quality photos of the Pilot versions of the Enterprise and explain my thoughts re. the blueness of the dorsal.

Gary

1st Pilot model in a DVD screen cap from "The Cage". During filming the model was suspended from wires in front a black backdrop, which is why the background stars bleed through parts of the ship in various scenes. Because no bluescreen was involved in this shot, the blue color of the dorsal can't be explained by reflections of the bluescreen. I asked Mike Okuda about the differences in the color of the dorsal in the DVD and Blu-ray versions of this scene, and he thinks that differing amounts of color correction were applied to the two transfers (1996 SD and 2006 HD transfers) and they could easily account for the difference in the apparent blueness of the neck. 











Another shot from "The Cage". I believe this is the 3 ft model, and the dorsal definitely has a blue cast. I think the gray along the base of the dorsal is actually the gray sec hull reflecting in the glossy finish on the dorsal.











2nd Pilot model in the Blu-ray version of "Mirror, Mirror". All but the bottom portion of the dorsal is in shadow. Compare the color of the non-shadowed area at the base of the dorsal with the color of the flat panel on the side of the sec hull (both of which are in the same plane). There's a blue light (probably spillover from the bluescreen) shining on parts of the model, but I don't think that's what creating the faintly bluish color on the dorsal. The glossy blue finish on the 1st Pilot model's dorsal would never work in conjunction with bluescreen, so the 2nd Pilot's dorsal has a flat finish and the blue is toned way down to a cool gray or light blue-gray color.


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

Gary K said:


> I thought I should post several of the highest quality photos of the Pilot versions of the Enterprise and explain my thoughts re. the blueness of the dorsal.
> 
> Gary
> 
> ...


Love finding nuggets! Is that the outline of the transfer for the NCC-1701 I see in the last picture? Also, agreed about the dorsal. The gloss finish would have been a bigger problem for the bluescreen than a light blue paint color! On their budget, they had a tough enough time with the matte work, some of that first season stuff is rough!


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## Gregatron (Mar 29, 2008)

Glad to see such thought being put into this!

My initial concept was that the blue dorsal didn't change between pilots--now I think it was either dulled down with a flat coat for the second pilot, or repainted with a slightly more gray-ish blue. Hmmm.


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

Gregatron said:


> Glad to see such thought being put into this!
> 
> My initial concept was that the blue dorsal didn't change between pilots--now I think it was either dulled down with a flat coat for the second pilot, or repainted with a slightly more gray-ish blue. Hmmm.


Keep it the way it is, it is a great build! It is just an interim paint job between Pike and Kirk!!! 'Nuff said!


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

Gary K said:


> Another shot from "The Cage". I believe this is the 3 ft model, and the dorsal definitely has a blue cast. I think the gray along the base of the dorsal is actually the gray sec hull reflecting in the glossy finish on the dorsal.


Yes, that is the smaller model in that shot... in fact, the only time the 11 foot model made it onto film in _The Cage_ was the bridge zoom in shot. All other footage of the Enterprise seen in that pilot was the 33 inch model.

And there was a lot more footage taken of the 33 inch model than actually ended up in that episode... but did show up in the effects library. The best reference for what shots were used and where comes from *Tallguy*'s research done late last year. Star Trek U.S.S. Enterprise FX Library
 Star Trek U.S.S. Enterprise FX Library - Images​
And since it was brought up... I'm not sure that the blue on the 33 inch model dorsal fully runs from the edge of the primary hull to the edge of the secondary hull. Along the top it looks like the color follows a straight line rather than the contours of the primary hull.








Of course the perfect place to check this would have been the shots of Nimoy holding the model... but the light splashing off his shirt onto the model over powers the blue of the dorsal.

Unfortunately, all the other really good images I have of the pilot version of the 33 inch model are in black & white, which isn't helpful in researching color...


_Click to enlarge_​
If anyone comes across color images (without Nimoy in them) of the pilot version of the 33 inch model, I'd love to see them! :thumbsup:


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## Fraley1701 (Sep 3, 2003)

RSN said:


> Seems rather foolish, and arrogant, to argue with the man who BUILT the model 45 years ago, a model that we all try to copy. I would take him at his word before I would believe an old faded picture that can be "color corrected" to fit any point of view. As for Mister Jefferies, I doubt very much he had any say in the colors the ship was painted. That, of course, is just my point of view!


Does my opinion warrant name calling from you? I am not saying anyone is wrong here. I am stating that I don't believe sufficient evidence has been presented here to convince me of the blue dorsal color. Skeptical; That's all!

There is a very good book by Dr. Carl Sagan called "The Demon Haunted World - Science as a Candle in the Dark." If you haven't read it already, I highly recommend it. It teaches and encourages people to learn critical and skeptical thinking. He encourages independent validation of concepts of truth whenever possible.

Actually Matt Jefferies had a lot of input on the color of the Enterprise...right down to the red pin stripes and the hull registry. This is well documented. I have had enough to say on this topic. :thumbsup:


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

Fraley1701 said:


> Does my opinion warrant name calling from you? I am not saying anyone is wrong here. I am stating that I don't believe sufficient evidence has been presented here to convince me of the blue dorsal color. Skeptical; That's all!
> 
> There is a very good book by Dr. Carl Sagan called "The Demon Haunted World - Science as a Candle in the Dark." If you haven't read it already, I highly recommend it. It teaches and encourages people to learn critical and skeptical thinking. He encourages independent validation of concepts of truth whenever possible.
> 
> Actually Matt Jefferies had a lot of input on the color of the Enterprise...right down to the red pin stripes and the hull registry. This is well documented. I have had enough to say on this topic. :thumbsup:


Nope, didn't "name call" you at all. My comment was not aimed toward you at all, otherwise I would have said "You are foolish and arrogant..." not just a general obeservation about what one of the original builders said about his creation. That's the trouble with writing in these forums, if the conversation were face to face, you could have heard my tone without jumping to conclusions about me. If Matt did have a lot of input then I stand corrected. Sorry for your confusion about the intent of my comment.

Peace,
Ron


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## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

Okay guys, let's keep it civil.


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

Carson Dyle said:


> Okay guys, let's keep it civil.


I'm cool, I was never upset about anything. I am just getting a kick out of finding all these new facts about the Enterprise. With the alteration made in Washitngton to the model, it is hard to know what it looked like "back in the day". Glad the upper primary hull was left as evidence of 1960's workmanship!


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## Landru (May 25, 2009)

There are multiple shots of the 33er model that sport a blue dorsal, since the 11 footer was built against the smaller model I tend to believe that there is, at least, a different colour and finish on the large model. 

The pics Shaw posted above clearly show the pastel blue dorsal, keep in mind that this model (like the 11 footer) was suspended by wires against a dark/black background. No bluescreen was used in the first pilot.

I would tend to agree with Gregatron on this; for WNM, the neck was 'fixed up' to allow for better conditions when using blue-screen. The model was shot with new paint again (as we all know) and at this stage, the neck was dulled out, although retaining a small amount of pastel blue and weathering left over from the first pilot.

As for the red pinstripe around the base of the bridge; I would hypothesize that when they were painting and detailing the 11 foot model, it was decided that more detail was required to make for a more realistic look, and thus the pinstripe detail was added. - Not to get ahead of anyone


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## Gregatron (Mar 29, 2008)

Basically, the model went through six stages:

1. The roll-out: Clean and pristine, with no markings except for the registries and pennants.

2. First pilot: Weathering and markings added for visual interest at Roddenberry's request.

3. Pilot 1.5: Test shots of an intermediate version (no lights, black bands on the saucer, ets.).

4. Second pilot: Lights added, details added/changed. Repaints done to change paint-on registries to decals (which eliminated much of the weathering), lighting installed.

5. Series pre-production (?): Production changes made (lights, details, weathering changed), photos shot for publicity. Lower saucer registries still in pilot orientation. This configuration was apparently never filmed, since the lower saucer registries are either Production-style or (incorrectly) flopped in all shots, even in early first season.

6. Series production: Lower saucer registries flipped around to be more readable on starbaord side.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Carson Dyle said:


> The fact that the "blue" dorsal is referenced in so authoritative a document lends a significant amount of credence, IMO, to its presence on the pilot versions of the model (more credence, frankly, than any of the photographic reference I've seen thus far).
> 
> I simply don't believe the feature in question would have been mentioned in such a context if it hadn't at one point existed.
> 
> ...


I concur. The colors on film can be very misleading but were not in this case. Great info to have and thanks to Gregatron for bringing it to our attention!:wave:


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## Gregatron (Mar 29, 2008)

Well, since I'm gonna start doing heavy research for my production version model, we might as well start discussing the minutae of that version, too!


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## Larry523 (Feb 16, 2010)

Well, considering that 'minutiae' can refer to 'minute' details, as well as 'minor' ones, and we're talking about building highly detailed models here, then I'd say discussing minutiae is entirely appropriate! Please carry on! :thumbsup:


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Gregatron said:


> Well, since I'm gonna start doing heavy research for my production version model, we might as well start discussing the minutae of that version, too!


Looking forward to your discoveries!:thumbsup:


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## Gregatron (Mar 29, 2008)

Been doing research on the series production version.

Here's some food for discussion:

* What color is that strip on the front edge of the dorsal? Blue-ish? Green-ish? I still think the leading edge of the dorsal might be a blue-ish color, as opposed to green or gray. 

* Still not sure about the dorsal windows--should they all be white/black, or are the stock decals correct? 

* There appears to be a distinctive ring of weathering on the underside of the saucer, close to the center. A sort of counterpart to the rust ring on top. 

* Was there a faux formation light on the bottom secondary hull deflector fork? The ones on the tops of the nacelles were clearly there (but were they white/clear? Red/green?.

* I'm also trying to figure out how to tackle the deflector dish. The rings behind the dish are definitely the same darker rust-copper color from the pilot versions, but the dish itself is lighter. A purer copper, maybe? Gold-ish? A mix of copper-gold? 

* Also, it's a very common misconception that the secondary hull ring which intersects the deflector forks is also a copper/red/brown color, instead of the green-gray hull base color. This appears to be the result of optical illusion--shadows playing tricks. I'm pretty darn sure about this.

This "error" even made it onto the Master Replicas version, as did the circular light panel on the bow section of the upper saucer. 


* There's also the "mounting" holes on the impulse engines. One in the center? Why does it look merely painted in vintage materials? Three, as in modern photos?

* It almost looks like the gray hightlight areas (impulse engines, nacelle trenches, vents, etc.) were repainted a slightly darker gray for the series version of the ship. 

* I'm not entirely sure what colors the formation lights on either side of the saucer edge should be--green and red, or white?


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## Gary K (Aug 26, 2002)

Gregatron said:


> Been doing research on the series production version.
> 
> Here's some food for discussion:
> 
> * Was there a faux formation light on the bottom secondary hull deflector fork? The ones on the tops of the nacelles were clearly there (but were they white/clear? Red/green?


What is a "deflector fork"?

Gary


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

I was wondering about that as well. Are you referring to the box clamps on the bottom and right side front of the engineering hull?


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## Gregatron (Mar 29, 2008)

Correct. "deflector forks" have become something of a shorthand phrase for the three (well, two, really--three on the theoretical starship, two on the model) boxy protuberances, where the pennants are located, and which surrround the navigational deflector mount at the front of the secondary hull.


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## Gregatron (Mar 29, 2008)

Edit--double post.


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## Gregatron (Mar 29, 2008)

Work in progress:

http://enterproject.wordpress.com


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## jheilman (Aug 30, 2001)

Gregatron said:


> * What color is that strip on the front edge of the dorsal? Blue-ish? Green-ish? I still think the leading edge of the dorsal might be a blue-ish color, as opposed to green or gray.


Gary stated it was a greenish color. Or really just a darker version of the hull color since it was a cool gray (concrete) color.



Gregatron said:


> * Still not sure about the dorsal windows--should they all be white/black, or are the stock decals correct?


Don't have a kit to reference the decals, but there was a single amber window on the aft dorsal. If you are looking at a starboard view, it's the first window on the second row. It shows up in a couple episodes. All my research is over 10 years old (and I admit many new details have come to light) when I built a CG Enterprise. I corresponded with Petri extensively. While he wasn't at liberty to reveal some info due to prior agreements, he could confirm or deny theories I came up with. There were also others that provided valuable insights.



Gregatron said:


> * Was there a faux formation light on the bottom secondary hull deflector fork? The ones on the tops of the nacelles were clearly there (but were they white/clear? Red/green?.


Don't know about the faux light, but I was informed that the mini lights on the top of the nacelles were red and green and were possibly teardrop shaped. Look at marker lights on small planes that are the exact same shape. Knowing Matt Jefferies aviation background, this seems likely. Also, these lights were never actually lit.



Gregatron said:


> * Also, it's a very common misconception that the secondary hull ring which intersects the deflector forks is also a copper/red/brown color, instead of the green-gray hull base color. This appears to be the result of optical illusion--shadows playing tricks. I'm pretty darn sure about this.


Still open to debate. I made it the copper color on my model but have since become convinced it should be hull color. I think the area was weathered which can make it look as though the entire ring is a different color in some shots.



Gregatron said:


> This "error" even made it onto the Master Replicas version, as did the circular light panel on the bow section of the upper saucer.


The bow light is interesting. There was definitely an opening in the hull. It appears to be the same size, and positioned in the same relation to the hull edge, as the main formation lights. One story is that a light was planned and then abandoned. The opening was covered up. One story says it's an access panel for changing the bulbs on the forward edge of the saucer. Some say that the panel was lost during production and the forward light came through giving the appearance of a light in that area. Don't really know. But if you look at episodes where the top of the hull is plain (overhead shot in The Tholian Web) you will see the circular area quite clearly. Doesn't look lit though.
http://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/3x09/thetholianweb239.jpg



Gregatron said:


> * It almost looks like the gray highlight areas (impulse engines, nacelle trenches, vents, etc.) were repainted a slightly darker gray for the series version of the ship.


Agreed.



Gregatron said:


> * I'm not entirely sure what colors the formation lights on either side of the saucer edge should be--green and red, or white?


I have an old reference photo from the IDIC page that shows small, unlit mini lights on top of the saucer outboard of the main lights. They are red/green. On the side of the saucer were more small lights which were white. I think these were also unlit. The ones on top of the saucer were likely the same shape as the lights on top of the nacelles although modern replicas have made them circular.


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## Gregatron (Mar 29, 2008)

Work on the reference blog continues. Feel free to make comments/suggestions for improvement.


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## Gregatron (Mar 29, 2008)

Oh, and nice info/speculation, jheilman!


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## Gregatron (Mar 29, 2008)

Finished the first pilot section of the blog--feel free to make suggestions for improvement!


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## Gregatron (Mar 29, 2008)

The blog is now updated through the second pilot model featured in this thread.


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## scottnkat (May 11, 2006)

I dunno about others, but I have your blog bookmarked - I can't wait to see what new insights you find regarding the series production model, and I love your builds and detail of the pilot ships.


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## Gregatron (Mar 29, 2008)

Thanks!

The blog is a work in progress. I'll improve and update the posts as I go along. I plan on using annotated photos of my own models (I'm leery of posting others' reference photos without permission, of course) to describe, in great detail, ever single known change made for each iteration of the real model.

I also intend to put together a list of reference and info links.


Things are gonna slow up for a while, though--I haven't started my production model, and probably won't for some time--still a good amount of R & D to be done!


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## Gregatron (Mar 29, 2008)

Updated the blog with annotated photos which detail all of the known differences between the two pilot versions of the _Enterprise_.


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## Gregatron (Mar 29, 2008)

So, I've been rechecking my references, and it looks like those faux formation lights on top of the nacelles appeared on both pilot versions of the big model. Any thoughts on this?

Also, it looks like the deflector dish spike on all three versions might possibly have been gold or copper, with a silver base, as opposed to just silver (which is what I thought) or entirely gold/copper (which some other renditions have depicted it as). Thoughts?


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## Gregatron (Mar 29, 2008)

I've begun preliminary part clean-up and prep work on my Production model.

A few tidbits:

* I'm convinced that the production version's dorsal has a blue-ish stripe on the leading edge (as opposed to green or gray), which is a remnant of the (controversial!) color scheme in the two pilots.

* I'm pretty sure that all of the illuminated windows are supposed to be white. But that one on the dorsal (and others, on occasion) looks kinda amber-ish at times, due to uneven light distribution and/or dying light bulbs.

* Also, the "green" windows on the rear side and upper rear secondary hull appears to be the result of light spill from the green-ish hangar beacon.

* I'm reasonably sure that the deflector dish's antenna is entirely silver/chrome, but occasionally picks up reflections which make part or all look gold/copper.


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## Gregatron (Mar 29, 2008)

Updated the blog with extensive analysis of the other versions of the original ship, from the DS9 5 1/2 foot model to the Remastered CG model.

www.enterproject.wordpress.com


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## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

Thanks for the update.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Gregatron said:


> 7. THE THREE-FOOTER.
> 
> Last, but not least, is the three-foot model of the Enterprise originally constructed in 1964–ignored 99% of the time as a reference for modelbuilders! As originally built in its first pilot configuration, the model was virtually identical to the 11-footer, except for some shape/proportional details, and the rectangular plates on the rear nacelle endcaps. When the series began production, the changes made to the 11-footer were also copied on the three-footer. There are still some differences in color, shape, and detail, however–most notably, the flattened shape of the lower saucer’s conical center section, the hull-colored rear nacelle endcaps, and the reddish-gold vents on the nacelle pylons.
> 
> ...


Great stuff with brilliant & detailed observations! :thumbsup: You have certainly contributed greatly to the body of knowledge regarding 1701.

One thing I want to ask you regarding the 3-footer vs. 11-footer is:

Does it appear to you that the 11-footer's bridge was actually changed in order to look more like the 3-footer? 

From what I can tell, the smaller, less detailed bridge was always present on 3-footer. Later, the 11-footer seems to have been modified to look more like the 3-footer's.


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## Gregatron (Mar 29, 2008)

Shaw would be the one to ask about that--I haven't done much study of the three-footer.


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## Gregatron (Mar 29, 2008)

Construction on my production version is proceeding nicely. Got the secondary hull/pylon assembly done--just working on filling those blasted seams!

The next thing to focus on is the front nacelle domes. I have to get the inner dome assemblies finessed before assembling the nacelles themselves.

Here's my plan:

1. A syrene disc will be attached to the back of each ribbed inner dome. The discs will be covered with chrome tape/foil, and 10 tiny dabs of Micro Krystal Kleer (to be painted the appropriate colors) which will simulate the light bulbs.

2. The ribs on the clear inner domes will be covered with trimmed metallic silver tape. Question--do the ribs meet in the center of the dome, or not? It's hard to tell. Looks like they don't.

3. The inside of each outer dome will be painted clear orange, and the outsides lightly frosted with Dullcote.


This should simulate the original engine effect nicely!


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## feek61 (Aug 26, 2006)

The ribs on the inner nacelles domes don't meet. Love your research; great job!


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

Perhaps this is the place to ask: Gregatron, in all your research, have you come across any information re: the shape of the nacelles? I have read one source, that I can't confirm, that says that the 12 foot's nacelles were constant diameter turned wooden cylinders until just aft of the pylons, and only aft of the pylon did the nacelles begin to taper. Can you or anyone shed any light?


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## jheilman (Aug 30, 2001)

I don't have adequate reference for the original, but the re-engineered domes and ribs of the current 11-footer, do seem to converge in the center.


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## Gregatron (Mar 29, 2008)

I haven't really looked into that. Shaw might know!


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## feek61 (Aug 26, 2006)

starseeker said:


> Perhaps this is the place to ask: Gregatron, in all your research, have you come across any information re: the shape of the nacelles? I have read one source, that I can't confirm, that says that the 12 foot's nacelles were constant diameter turned wooden cylinders until just aft of the pylons, and only aft of the pylon did the nacelles begin to taper. Can you or anyone shed any light?


Aft of the pylons the nacelles were sheet metal. You can see the screws where the sheet metal is attached to the wooden section if you look close at the miniature. Looking closer it does appear that the turned wooded section forward does taper as well. Will post some photos later.


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## Gregatron (Mar 29, 2008)

And, of course, some modelers depict the seams between those nacelle sections as gridlines.


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## feek61 (Aug 26, 2006)

jheilman said:


> I don't have adequate reference for the original, but the re-engineered domes and ribs of the current 11-footer, do seem to converge in the center.


The originals didn't and I don't think the current version does either. The ribs seem to fall just short of the center.


















Current version:


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## Gary K (Aug 26, 2002)

starseeker said:


> Perhaps this is the place to ask: Gregatron, in all your research, have you come across any information re: the shape of the nacelles? I have read one source, that I can't confirm, that says that the 12 foot's nacelles were constant diameter turned wooden cylinders until just aft of the pylons, and only aft of the pylon did the nacelles begin to taper. Can you or anyone shed any light?


It's true that the fwd portions of the nacelles were made from turned wood. The plans that Richard Datin used to build the 11-footer, which have not been released to the public, show a constant taper along the entire length of the nacelles, and when I helped remove the nacelles from the model in 1991 I didn't see anything to indicate that Datin did otherwise. 

Gary


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

Great! Thanks, Gary! Even on the small scale of the various kits, a constant diameter tube meeting a tapering tube is quite noticeable, so I really wanted to double check this rumor before I committed to anything that radical as I try to rebuild my two crashed models. I haven't found any screen grabs that I can confirm or deny it with, as one side of the nacelle always seems to be a straight line while the other doesn't. An effect of camera/filming/broadcast distortion, or something, I'm now sure. 
When are those blueprints going to be published? How many more Art of Star Trek books can there be?


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## Gary K (Aug 26, 2002)

starseeker said:


> Great! Thanks, Gary! Even on the small scale of the various kits, a constant diameter tube meeting a tapering tube is quite noticeable, so I really wanted to double check this rumor before I committed to anything that radical as I try to rebuild my two crashed models. I haven't found any screen grabs that I can confirm or deny it with, as one side of the nacelle always seems to be a straight line while the other doesn't. An effect of camera/filming/broadcast distortion, or something, I'm now sure.


Or the sheet metal was bolted on a little crooked. Remember - nothing on that model is perfectly straight or symmetrical. It was not built to be a showpiece in a museum; instead, it built as cheaply as possible and served as a prop for a low-rated TV show that only lasted 3 seasons. Whoda thunk a bunch of crazy people would be fixating on every square inch of the prop over 40 years later?  



starseeker said:


> When are those blueprints going to be published? How many more Art of Star Trek books can there be?


Beats me. With any luck my plans will be available in 2012 as a 32.5" plastic model. Keep you fingers crossed!

Gary


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## Paulbo (Sep 16, 2004)

Fingers are crossed.


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## jheilman (Aug 30, 2001)

feek61 said:


> The originals didn't and I don't think the current version does either. The ribs seem to fall just short of the center.


Not so sure about that. Look at this grab from a video of the restored E originally from The IDIC page.


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

Fingers crossed. Toes crossed. With you on this, when it does happen, it was be brilliant.


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## Joeysaddress (Jun 16, 2006)

When the lighting and spinning fan effect was added back the the model during the last restoration, the blades that were installed DO converge in the center. However, if you look at the screen grab from Metamorphosis (or just watch the very quick head on shot from that episode), you can see that originally they didn't converge.


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## Gregatron (Mar 29, 2008)

Added a new post to the blog, summing up many of the misconceptions about the three versions of the 11-footer.

Feel free to offer any corrections and/or additional details.

http://enterproject.wordpress.com/2010/12/31/myths-and-misconceptions/


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## Gregatron (Mar 29, 2008)

And here are some in-progress shots of my Production model, with the as-yet-unglued parts (the nacelle bits and the deflector dish) stuck in place for the photos:


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## Gregatron (Mar 29, 2008)

Coming right along. I used metallic charcoal tape on the inner nacelle domes' ribs, which looks very good.


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## holt32 (Nov 5, 2009)

That looks really good I love the domes can I ask what you use to tint them.


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## nautilusnut (Jul 9, 2008)

This has been one of the most interesting posts on this site in a long time. Regarding the shade of Blue on the dorsal- original issues of the AMT kit were molded in a pale blue. AMT response to "why" was that this was the color sample the studio supplied. Could this be the shade used on the dorsal?


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## Gregatron (Mar 29, 2008)

holt32 said:


> That looks really good I love the domes can I ask what you use to tint them.



The inner domes are the red resin replacements from VA Miniatures (which now have the charcoal tape on the ribs).

The insides of the outer domes were tinted with clear orange.


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## Gregatron (Mar 29, 2008)

nautilusnut said:


> This has been one of the most interesting posts on this site in a long time. Regarding the shade of Blue on the dorsal- original issues of the AMT kit were molded in a pale blue. AMT response to "why" was that this was the color sample the studio supplied. Could this be the shade used on the dorsal?


Having recently rewatched the entirety of TOS on Blu-Ray, I'd like to reiterate my assertion that the dorsal was blue-ish (maybe a light powder blue-gray) in the pilots, and hull color with the blue-ish stripe on the leading edge for the series.


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## scottnkat (May 11, 2006)

Any update on this? I'd love to see your finished production model.


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## Gregatron (Mar 29, 2008)

It's slow-going. I'm still working on filling seams, etc. Should be ready for primer pretty soon. Don't worry--I'll keep y'all updated.


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## BolianAdmiral (Feb 24, 2009)

So YOU'RE the guy with the Enterprise Project blog!!! An honor to meet you, Sir! I recently stumbled upon your blog, while I was looking for references and doing research for my April's Enterprise project. You've done some astounding work, and personally, I think the blue neck works, and looks nice, both on the filming model, and on yours.


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## Gregatron (Mar 29, 2008)

Thank you kindly!

The whole point of this project is to work out those nitty-gritty details, and expand everyone's knowledge of the subject (including my own). As always, comments and feedback are appreciated. 

The blog's content is not set in stone--any updated information or new discoveries will be added (for all three versions).


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## jlwshere (Mar 30, 2007)

Gregatron said:


> I've looked at the same shots as seen in many different episodes in different formats (DVD, Blu-Ray, etc.) and playing with color and contrast controls all throughout--while there is variance in the color tint of footage, poor compositing, etc., the blue color of the dorsal is pretty consistent across a wide range of sources.
> 
> The "Mirror, Mirror" shot skews overall toward the blue, yes, but there's still a perceptable tonal difference between the dorsal and the rest of the hull. It can be better seen in other episodes and photos, though.
> 
> ...


I think these photos are of the 3 footer... so very well may be blue. Sure looks cool in any event.


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## Gregatron (Mar 29, 2008)

Nope. This is definitely the 11-footer--the only appearance of the 11-footer in the original pilot, in fact.


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## woof359 (Apr 27, 2003)

looks like only the dish is copper with the rings behind being grayish, I know about the leading edge os the dorsal being blueish or maybe a darker gray but in one old pic i thought the back of the dorsal was off color too ????


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## FJP57 (Apr 25, 2013)

In the interest of keeping this thread alive and continuing the discussion (and controversy). The 1/350 PL TOS Enterprise pilot version accessory kit calls out the following on the dorsal color - 

_First pilot version: _Testors MM Pontiac Engine Blue # 28011.

_Second pilot version: _2 parts Testors MM USSR Flanker Blue #2130 & 1 part USSR Flanker Medium Blue #2131.


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