# I had a talk with a former Hobby dealer today



## Guy Schlicter (May 3, 2004)

And he gave me an honest view of where plastic models are in Todays society. Well he said to me very few people do model building anymore and he was a Hobby Dealer. We talked about the closing of Hi Way Hobby House in Ramsey N.J. and Lou is aware they are going to sell over the internet to try to keep the Hi Way Hobby name alive and I hope they do. Lou said peoples interests have changed and what can I say that even though I enjoy model kit building I think he knows what he is talking about on this one. Guy Schlicter.


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## louspal (Sep 13, 2009)

I would agree that LHS's are quickly becoming a thing of the past, but I would venture that this is mostly due to internet sales. It's hard to figure that the hobby is waning with the amount of new releases and reissues: Nostalgia is a powerful thing. That being said, when all of us 60's -70's kids are gone the hobby will most likely follow I for one plan on being around for awhile; until my eyes go completley my fun-money is going to styrene.


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## MightyMax (Jan 21, 2000)

Wanna know how to make a small fortune today selling models?

Start with a large one!

Max Bryant


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## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

I think the main issue is very obvious. maybe it's several issues.

1. There is no longer a concept of 'building' as a hobby encouraged to youth. I guess there are still Pinewood Derby races but dang if i can recall the last time I heard of one. That goes for other things such as flying model rockets, gas powered airplanes, gliders and other wood and doped fabric flying. When was the last time you heard of a child wanting a HO train set to expand his set-up?

2. Advertising. Aurora, Revell and Monogram all used to have ads in comic books. I used to go ape over the news of a new Tom Daniels show car or the various licensed kits from Aurora. But why bother to advertise in comic books because...

3. Price. Price is the killer. Plastic kit building has stopped being a 'cheap, disposable' form of entertainment (same as comics, paperbacks and so on). Oh, it's easy to blame the inflation on the cost of plastic, and the cost of licensing, and to give in and say "it's a boutique hobby now we don't crank out 100,000 copies of a kit anymore we're lucky to sell 10k of anything blame the economics of scale if we sold 100,000 units prices would drop we promise!" but...well, I won't go into how that's snake eating its tail. How do you get a kid hooked on building, say, model cars when they're about $20 or more at the one national place, Hobby Lobby? $20? for a damn CAR? $60 for a TANK?! Man, I would NEVER have gotten into armor back in the '70s if I was paying $60 for a Tamiya M 60 A1E1.

(of course, to be fair, Tamiya back then was hooked up with MRC for American distro, and the Dollar/ Yen rate was MUCH better for imports)

I'm not knocking any company, it's damn tough out there and they gotta do what they gotta do. But I can tell you I sure don't impulse buy a kit anymore.


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## halcyon_daze (Jan 6, 2004)

There's a similar discussion going on over at the FSM site if anyone's interested:

http://cs.finescale.com/FSMCS/forums/t/128747.aspx


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## louspal (Sep 13, 2009)

halcyon_daze said:


> There's a similar discussion going on over at the FSM site if anyone's interested:
> 
> http://cs.finescale.com/FSMCS/forums/t/128747.aspx


Man, they have alot of smart people over there at FSM. All posts exhibit an extremely high level of considered, reasonable, mature and informed opinion. Which brings me to my next point: Isn't it about time for a Dremel Salute or Barry Yoner Day or something...:jest:


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## Zombie_61 (Apr 21, 2004)

Steve H said:


> 1. There is no longer a concept of 'building' as a hobby encouraged to youth.


This is only part of the equation, the other part being today's "youth" have far too many other options when it comes to ways to spend their spare time. Cable/Satellite tv, dvds/Blu Ray, Ipods, cell phones, MP3 players, computers, Internet, video games, etc.. Instant gratification and the impatience that comes with it seems to be the rule rather than the exception these days. "_Build_ a model? You mean I have to put it together _myself_? How long is _that_ gonna take? Forget that!"

I'm over-simplifying, of course, but you get the idea. And, to be honest, if I were a teenager these days I probably wouldn't be much different.


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## Atemylunch (Jan 16, 2006)

Zombie_61 said:


> This is only part of the equation, the other part being today's "youth" have far too many other options when it comes to ways to spend their spare time. Cable/Satellite tv, dvds/Blu Ray, Ipods, cell phones, MP3 players, computers, Internet, video games, etc.. Instant gratification and the impatience that comes with it seems to be the rule rather than the exception these days. "_Build_ a model? You mean I have to put it together _myself_? How long is _that_ gonna take? Forget that!"
> 
> I'm over-simplifying, of course, but you get the idea. And, to be honest, if I were a teenager these days I probably wouldn't be much different.


I think you might be right on. It may be as simple as youth having way to many options in life. The whole internet thing kills a lot of time. I quit a few boards and I was very surprised how much time I gained. 

There is another thing to consider as to the loss of the hobby. That would be culture, most of us grew up knowing the guys that drove the tanks flew the planes(building kits was a way to get close to those guys), and on top of that entertainment was much more focused. Only three networks and most everybody knew the latest shows, today I couldn't even tell what is popular the number of shows seem endless. 

Personally I think Star Wars was the beginning of the decline of the model kit. Lucas found merchandising was a serious cash cow, and the toy companies took notice. Thus they put out whatever they think they can sell. So this goes back to what Z61 is saying, why would anybody want to spend the time building a kit when they can pick up a finished piece. 

Which is a true shame, but there will always be modelers. Somebody has to make the prototypes for those products. Regardless of where technology is the modeler will always be a part of that process.


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## halcyon_daze (Jan 6, 2004)

louspal said:


> Man, they have alot of smart people over there at FSM. All posts exhibit an extremely high level of considered, reasonable, mature and informed opinion. Which brings me to my next point: Isn't it about time for a Dremel Salute or Barry Yoner Day or something...:jest:


Sure. Just like this site. You, for example.


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## fluke (Feb 27, 2001)

Sounds like he was being on the level to me. It is a good site....I was on the Helicopter section for a few years.

Well I see it this way.....85 to 90% of plastic kits are being bought 
by us 40 to 50 baby boomers reliving more easy, fun and nastalgic days and after were not interested or can't build cuz our hands shake or can't see well enough...thats pretty much it for plastic kits. 

I just do not see enough interest among younger folk...I could be wrong...and God I hope so. 

The newer generation is just not interested......in pretty much anything anymore. I just read were there is a serious lack of interest in the Space program, various Pilots, many Tech fields etc. Either they are not interested or educated enough / intimidated to speak.

The President of our local Space and Aircraft Museum at the Boeing Field Dr. Bonnie J. Dunbar - retired from the NASA Johnson Space Center where she was Associate Director, Technology Integration says that the enrollment in anything 'Space' affiliated is very low and worries her.

You would think that all this 'gaming' would stir imagination but I think today's choices of 'fun' have had the opposite effect....like BRAIN DEAD and depleted....at least with Atari there was only so many games and options before it was under the bed, in a cabinet and we were doing something else.

Sigh 

anyone...Bueller?


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## halcyon_daze (Jan 6, 2004)

fluke said:


> Sounds like he was being on the level to me. It is a good site....I was on the Helicopter section for a few years.


Not to derail, but yeah the FSM site is very good for a lot of info...I've found it generally better than this one if you're looking for info specific to the building process, this site lacks all the sub-forums by comparison that FSM has dedicated to painting, techniques, model subjects, etc. Their SF forum doesn't seem particularly active though. The Odds & Ends forum where the linked thread is found is well...often more odd than I care for.

As far as that particular response above is concerned, I find it amusing that it didn't reflect a single one of the criteria sarcastically describing the posters at FSM. 

To the topic, the consensus seems to be the younger generation isn't interested in modeling, which isn't very surprising, and the market is being driven by the aging baby boomers like me. As a hobby model building has made tremendous strides in quality of the kits, variety, resources, etc. but the future doesn't look too promising when we're gone I'm afraid.


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## louspal (Sep 13, 2009)

I was serious. It was a very good thread and site. They don't really cover my main area of interest (I build very little hardware), but it was all very civilized, informed, considered and unfunny. Not that the fate of our beloved hobby is a laughing matter, but this forum can be a real laugh-riot. I like that.


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## halcyon_daze (Jan 6, 2004)

louspal said:


> I was serious. It was a very good thread and site. They don't really cover my main area of interest (I build very little hardware), but it was all very civilized, informed, considered and unfunny. Not that the fate of our beloved hobby is a laughing matter, but this forum can be a real laugh-riot. I like that.


Ah O.K. Sorry, I totally misinterpreted your response.


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

TV and video games have shortened the attention span of the kids. Their parents have no skills to pass down. Instant gratification means buy it, open the box and you're done. Kids wiithout skills don't understand the value of manual skills in the first place. Schools emphasize emotional gratification and acceptance, not individual betterment. Parents are as much to blame for their poor performing kids as the schools are. 

I watched this for 10 years that I worked part time at a large local hobby shop (Doug's Hobbies/Action Hobbies in Burke, VA) Kids had no patience to build RC cars. kids had no patience to build RC airplanes and learn to fly them. Kids were too lazy and stupid to do their own science projects, and the parents ended up doing it. The model railroaders were mostly in their 30's or older. Same for the RC airplane folks. I blame the parents for not encouraging their kids. I'd hear BS cop-out reasons like 'too messy' never finish, takes up space, need to play sports instead...bla bla bla. Parents make their kids underachievers and non creative. The loser traits are passed on.


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## razorwyre1 (Jan 28, 2004)

Zombie_61 said:


> This is only part of the equation, the other part being today's "youth" have far too many other options when it comes to ways to spend their spare time. Cable/Satellite tv, dvds/Blu Ray, Ipods, cell phones, MP3 players, computers, Internet, video games, etc.. Instant gratification and the impatience that comes with it seems to be the rule rather than the exception these days. "_Build_ a model? You mean I have to put it together _myself_? How long is _that_ gonna take? Forget that!"
> 
> I'm over-simplifying, of course, but you get the idea. And, to be honest, if I were a teenager these days I probably wouldn't be much different.


i will never forget a moment that happened at my local comic shop about 20 years ago. this kid, probably about 13, grabbed the new screamin' kit of jason. his face was beaming when he turned to the shops owner and asked "does it look just like this?" (referring to the photo on the lid). the owner replies "it's a kit. you have to put it together and paint it.". the kids face fell, and with an air of great disappointment, he put it back on the shelf. the owner and i looked at one another knowing we had just seen an exemplary moment.

atemylunch, something else happened at almost exactly the same time that star wars was released that had a much greater impact on model kits (and everything else kids spent their money on): space invaders. the video game revolution devastated the whole of the kids hobby market, and a great many companies did not survive it. anything that relied on allowances for purchases was s.o.l., because that money was being converted into quarters to be fed to the machines. 

anyone that doesnt believe that the hobby is graying should look at a photo of the crowd at wonderfest.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

HiWay Hobby has one week of life left. 

Sadly I'm probably working next weekend and I won't be able to visit on its last day.


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## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

Y3a said:


> TV and video games have shortened the attention span of the kids. Their parents have no skills to pass down. Instant gratification means buy it, open the box and you're done. Kids wiithout skills don't understand the value of manual skills in the first place. Schools emphasize emotional gratification and acceptance, not individual betterment. Parents are as much to blame for their poor performing kids as the schools are.
> 
> I watched this for 10 years that I worked part time at a large local hobby shop (Doug's Hobbies/Action Hobbies in Burke, VA) Kids had no patience to build RC cars. kids had no patience to build RC airplanes and learn to fly them. Kids were too lazy and stupid to do their own science projects, and the parents ended up doing it. The model railroaders were mostly in their 30's or older. Same for the RC airplane folks. I blame the parents for not encouraging their kids. I'd hear BS cop-out reasons like 'too messy' never finish, takes up space, need to play sports instead...bla bla bla. Parents make their kids underachievers and non creative. The loser traits are passed on.


Much truth there, altho I think 'short attention span' should be modified to 'short attention span if not engaged' because brother, I've seen my stepbrother's son spend HOURS dinking around with his Nintendo DS, completely locking out the world. 

and let's not forget the 'nanny state' aspect hovering over our hobby. Fear of knives, fear that paint or glue might be abused- used to get high off the fumes, fear that rattlecan of blue paint is being bought to spray gang signs on someone's garage door ... all these things make a store reluctant to carry the needed items to complete a plastic kit, which goes to...

4. There's no place to BUY a model anymore.

Put aside the beloved LHS for a moment and consider: Kits were EVERYWHERE back in the day. I had bought models at a local hardware store, the local supermarket chain, I stumbled over the AMT Klingon Cruiser at a drug store when it first came out and was so excited and surprised. I bought Imai Thunderbirds kits imported from Japan at Woolco and Revell space kits at Woolworths. I bought a Rat Patrol diorama kit at Circus World. It was NORMAL to do that. 

"Oh, shut up! You can find EVERYTHING online! It's the one good thing about the internet!" I hear some rant. Maybe so, and I know price hunting is the main thing people enjoy (which, of course, is a factor in the dying hobby) but the internet is horrible for impulse shopping and random buying. It's a wonderful thing if you know exactly what you want but man, none of the joy of seeing a packed shelf of boxes, that whole "wow, there's a kit of THIS?" thrill.

And all those places that carried plastic kits, the hardware stores, the drug stores, the large supermarkets, the 'dime' stores, that was VOLUME. That was a large market that needed to be constantly fed and so you GET lines like Prehistoric Scenes and such like. 

and of course the side effect that with all those different small local places that carried kits you had a large number of people serving as jobbers and suppliers, salesmen who would come in, promote new releases, check stock, lots of small independent hobby distributors to feed product to those salesmen, etc etc. 

I don't think it was Star Wars that hurt the kit biz. I'm trying to dig into my memory when kits started vanishing from shelves and I can't really peg it. It's like some bizarre mind wipe, one day it's everywhere, the next *zoop* like it never existed.

Wait. Duh. I think it's when Aurora went belly up. But if that's it, then it's a real 'chicken and egg' issue because, was it poor sales that killed Aurora or was it the death of Aurora that killed the market? (I know, oil crisis was a factor as was management changes and such, nothing is simple)


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

If my dad weren't a model railroader and tool & die man, I doubt I'd have taken up this hobby. His generation made their own fun. They built motorcycles from spare parts. My Uncle Peter built a Mini-Cooper by cannibalizing parts from three wrecks in his driveway ... without a manual. But those guys grew up in the depression, when they had to know how to fix things and make things. It was a necessary survival skill. 

After the war came prosperity, then free time and hobbies, where people were able to take those hands-on skills and apply them for fun. However, once those skills were no longer a necessity due to planned obsolescence (why fix? throw it away) and continued prosperity, the clock started on the death of these kinds of hobbies. Next, with television, we stopped _doing_ things and started to _watch other people_ doing things. Then came video games, home computers and finally, the last straw for potential model-building kids: they didn't have to build a model to get a nice replica of their favorite star or piece of hardware -- they could just buy it and pop it on the shelf.

Once instant gratification (as mentioned by many of you) became a way of life, it became expected. Witness the Screamin' Jason example posted.

So why do we build kits in this world of instant gratification? Because we did it as _kids_. No kids, no new builders.


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## dsharlock (Aug 24, 2008)

I find it interesting that this discussion has only focused on a small part of the hobby, namely the hobby as it exists in the United States. 

There are more and better products available now, but most of them come from overseas. Tamiya, Hasegawa, etc. are produced primarily for the Japanese market. I can't say who the biggest customers are for Trumpeter or Dragon, but I would guess that Asian markets would be their primary buyers. I'm guessing that most of the stuff made in the Czech Republic goes to Europe.

My thought is that the hobby has less participants here in the US, but it's stronger in other countries. Having been to Japan many times, I can tell you that there are still plenty of hobby shops, although they are slowly decreasing. Department stores in Japan still have model sections, some of which are quite nice. The whole Gundam phenominom is still going strong, and those kits can be very high priced. Twice a year, Wonder Festival draws over 40,000 people (primarily for anime character kits). There have even been TV shows devoted to building kits.

Perhaps the percentage of modelers in the US is going down (and the age of modelers is going up), but I think it is useful to look at this from a global perspective.

Bill


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## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

I'm well aware how much stronger the plamo (plastic model) culture is in Japan, it's been a frustration for me since the '70s to see mixed of course with the joy.

Part of the reason for the strength over there is likely the concept of having patience, taking the time to craft something is still respected, and taught. Another is the unusual practice of price control imposed by custom and tradition. Yes, you can find some minor discounts from the Depato (Department) stores but on the whole, if Bandai or Tamiya says that kit retails for 7,000 Yen, that's what it's going to cost from Tokyo to Kobe to the smallest mom&pop shop on the most southern island.

Also, it appears that the Japanese plamo industry is now comfortable with limited run kits. Instead of cranking out kits and keeping them in catalog you see a LOT of stuff show up as a one-time single run items. I'm not so sure that's a good thing.


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

I don't know if it's the same in the US and other countries but one big problem I think here in the UK is that making models isn't seen as "cool". In fact some people see it as being a bit weird. A loners hobby. Britain's become such a dumbed down place in so many ways with the spread of chav/yob culture and X Factor type tv (most of our schools unless they're private are pretty bad and the kids run wild) that anything with a bit of intelligence seems to be frowned on by a lot of people. 

Countries like Japan seem to be the opposite and their attention spans seem a lot higher too. 


That said, there are occasionally some rays of hope. There was a series on toys like Scalextric, Airfix and Meccano recently hosted by Top Gear's James May which showed kids building a giant Spitfire replica and the kids seemed to like building models also. So maybe things can be turned around if the hobby's promoted more and made cool.


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## MadCap Romanian (Oct 29, 2005)

I love these posts! They are so refreshingly depressing!:wave:

Here's my story....My wife and I own a small hobbyshop in High River, Alberta, Canada. Population 20,000. We also draw in customers from the surrounding towns in the Foothills of Alberta as well as some from Calgary and Lethbridge. We've been in business for six years selling plastic kits, war games, card games, balsawood airplane kits, millitary kits, model trains, tiki mugs, halloween costumes, CD's and more. 

In 2007, we were making @ $40 000 at year end but when the recession started, we showed a drop of @ $20 000 at year end. The recession has been tough, but we have been surviving!

However, we are now $100 ahead of last year at this time and that will mean that at year end, we'll show that we are going back up. 

All you guys say that kids aren't building kits anymore, but this isn't true. If you want to see where "It's Happening" for models, go to a Games Workshop store. 

In the GW store, kids are playing a game with their figure model kits. This could be Warhammer Fantasy Battles, Warhammer 40K (SCI-FI) or Lord Of The Rings. They are encouraged to build, paint and play with their figures in the store. The staff there take the time to sit with the kids and show them how it's done, using knives, acryllic paint, super-glue derrivative glue and metal files. 

Kids continue on their own by building up their armies from little 500 point games up to 1000 points, 2000 and more. A standard box of 16-20 figures can cost $45-$60 and the kids are buying these models like crazy so that they can play the game. "Points wise, one $45 box might get you a unit of troops at 75-110 points, depending on how the unit is "kitted out". The kids can easily drop $10 000 to get their army into the 3000 point catagory without blinking an eye.

I have found that carring the GW items has saved my business in the low months. However, I'm not a 100% GW store, so I can't put as many products on my shelf as they do, but I can still special order the items for them.

I discovered that a hobby shop HAS to keep up with the times. 

Keep in mind that for many of us when we were young, our fathers showed us how to build models. Dads spent time with their kids. Today, both parents work and the kids are left with the PSP or XBOX. It's easy, takes up a lot of time and requires no supervision.

Yet, kids are still the "Moldable" little "Blank Pages" that they always were, but it's up to parents or grandparents to show them how to do things. Input the wrong information and they won't learn anything. Enter the right information and they could be the next future archetects. Remeber the proverb "Give me a fish and I'll eat for today....teach me to fish and I'll eat for life." Well, change that to "Buy me a prebuilt model and I'll have something I can plunk on the shelf that isn't ijmportant to me....teach me to build a model and I'll have something to be proud of."

In this frame of mind, I've shown some of the kids that come into my shop how to paint and build their Warhammer figures and model kits and that helped increase sales. 

I personally think what's happened is that the hobby shop owners or employees don't really show anyone how to do anything. I think they assume the customer knows what they're doing and they just sit back at the counter and collect money. Well, once the people forget how to do things, they won't buy anything unless it's pre-built. The goal is to get them building again, even if you have to show them the booring old basics until your brain explodes. You have to be active and not reactive.

Also, run contests. The Hobby Store owners of the 1960's did far more than what the current hobby shops do. Bring that back and you'll get kids interested again. 

Each year we have a model car contest when high River has it's car contest. For 5 out of 6 years, I always had 60% kids enter and 40% adults. Last year was an exception, but I still had a show. Also, look at the Build a monster contest. I think this year I'll have a few more local entries because I showed the kids how to paint their Warhammer figures. but i'll see what happens on that one.


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## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

Madcap, I salute you and wish you continued success, and greater success!

But I note you've done the smart thing, you've got great diversity of product in your store, which can level out the ups and downs. The secret is, don't assume, NEVER assume that any one thing will be your 'forever' gold mine. I think you're very wise to work the Warhammer line the way you are, the investment in stock to be a fully vested Games Workshop reseller won't lead to a resultant increase in your sales. As you know, the secret is getting the turns. Turn that inventory, sell sell sell, don't get bogged down with the 'rare collectable' nonsense. Keep moving that product!


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## MadCap Romanian (Oct 29, 2005)

Thanx Steve H!

Another thought I have is this : I find that the "Sales" and "Blow Out Sales" don't help me at all. First off, when I have a "Blow Out" advertised in the newspaper, people ignore the ad (Which can cost us $500). Secondly, some people will buy the item on "Blow Out" prices and then the following week, after the sale is over, some other customer will appear with the full price in hand wanting to buy the item you just blew out at 1/2 price. If I waited a week, I would have had the full money!

Also, you can't look at sales on a day to day basis. I've had days where I made $0 and then the following day I could make $200. Nothing is predictable like it was in 2007.

I also find that people are pretty lazy and don't want to investigate things. When I was selling the models at the last RMMC show, I had someone come up to me and say that they knew about my store for years, but never came in because they thought I was only selling Monster related items (Because I'm "Monster Hobbies"). Once he saw that I had planes, tanks and cars, he changed his mind. that was just a matter of an "Uninformed customer".


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## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

Sales are useful tools, but you have to have a good reason. Clearing out dead stock makes sense, trying to do as supermarkets do, use a sale to try and hope people will buy other, full priced items is a risky thing in the hobby biz. With the internet, people get pretty bitchy about prices.

A better use of that ad space might be a percent off coupon. Look at your margins, see what your comfort level is and do something like 15% off purchases of $50 or more, something like that.

Or don't buy ads, just do like Toys R Us and Walmart and track your inventory, if it's been sitting more than 3 months knock 10% off or something. Use special stickers for that. 

If you don't have computerized point of sale tracking and ordering and inventory control, that's the single most useful investment you can make for your store. But you have to keep it up to date and maintained. I'm sorry, I can't give you pointers where to get the software but I'm sure one of your hobby vendors can get you info.

Yeah, I used to work in a hobby shop, long long ago.


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## Cajjunwolfman (Nov 15, 2004)

MadCap:

I tip my hat to you! Hope you continue to have success.
My take on the LHS is that if you can find your niche market, offer specialized good service (actually followup when people have questions, want orders, notifiy them when an order comes in), IE free semminars or classes that people can pay for (airbrushing acrylics, weathering, accurizing, photoetch parts, resin parts) , you can succeed. You also need to have a relationship with any local model clubs. 
When I was the PR person for our local model group we did a marketing survey at the local model show/contest. We got people to fill out the ten question survey by giving away free raffle tickets. We asked questions about kids, participation, interest in the hobby. Surprisingly when the responses came in the cost of the kit or the time investment was not a problem with most parents. Most of the parents issue was that there was no one to teach the child or no follow-up classes or participation. Single parent households are very devoted, they'll make sure that kid gets whatever they want, even if the parent has to go hungry.
I agree thats where GW are marketing genuises. They have someone in the store who can help you assemble and paint your kits. They even have paints in the store they'll let you use for free! For a nominal fee you can attend a 6 week course and "graduate". 
Kids today also aren't interested in most of the modeling subjects out today. They don't care about the hundreth version of a BF 109. They didn't care about the first version. They might be interested in BSG, ST or Avatar. Thats why I disagree that the price of a current kit matters. Those kits with 780 parts of buildling pleasure that cost $100 are for adults like me, not for begining modelers.
I try very much to support my LHS which belongs to a guy and his wife. I buy almost all my stuff from him, I special order from him, I even buy things I don't need. What I find is truly reprehensible is the lack of loyalty and support from my local modelers for the LHS. Even though they whine continually about the hobby declining etc. I've stood in his store and had other modelers tell his customers where they can buy the same item for cheaper in town at HL or HT, how they've ordered stuff online, yet their in his store!
My personal belief is that our hobby is a niche market that will continue to exist but not neccessarly in the format that we are familar with. Only time will tell.


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## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

But then we have the other problem. How can we teach kids to get hooked on plastic, when in our current culture, the shadow of the pedophile hovers over any such thing?

Mind, I've never heard of those pervs using model kits as bait but they sure seem to jump on any concept or trend that might further their sick passion.

Back in the '70s my mom had no fear whatsoever of leaving me at an IPMS meeting. Picture trying to convince parents today, in our current culture, that a 14 year old will be just fine hanging out with a group of older men...

Paranoia? no, simple observation of how the world is, I'm sad to say.

OTOH the 'make and take' events at various model conventions seem to be pretty popular. But, again, it's all in public, lots and lots of people around, it's 'safe', right?


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## MadCap Romanian (Oct 29, 2005)

At CajjunWolfman - yeah, I know that "I can buy it cheaper in the city" stuff. They use to say that about the Walmart in the neighboring town of Okotoks, 15 minutes away. Thankfully Wal-Mart dropped their models and now I have the model kit market covered. But the dumb thing is that it cost them $5.00 more in gas to get to Okotoks and $10 to get to Calgary. So they didn't really save anything at all. 

Even the shipping is $10-25 on items and they wouldn't have to pay that if they bought from me. 

@ Steve H - the pedophile thing is something perverse in our current culture that I wish would go away. now anyone older than 25 is a pedo in these people's minds. It's quite sick and sad that the trust is gone....but that's another conversation alltogether. 

I have 14 year olds hanging out here all day, so some parents must still be trusting. I pity the rest though.


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## BlackbirdCD (Oct 31, 2003)

I don't spend a lot of time worrying about what the rest of society does for fun, I just enjoy building models. There will be enough buyers out there to support the sales and production of tools, glue, and paint for a very long time even if it means shopping online.

In the meantime, I will take advantage of the fact that I'm lucky enough to have a great LHS nearby, a community of model builders who enjoy the same things I do (both local and otherwise), and the best model contest within range of a plane ride (Wonderfest). 

All of this might go away bit by bit over time. But I've got a stash of supplies and kits to keep me going for a couple of lifetimes, and the skills to build my own crap from scratch if necessary. 

What I don't have time for is wallowing in nostalgia. That's not intended to be a condemnation of this thread or the thoughts shared here, so don't take it personally. I'm still excited by the hobby and the folks involved.

Cheers!


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## Zombie_61 (Apr 21, 2004)

razorwyre1 said:


> i will never forget a moment that happened at my local comic shop about 20 years ago. this kid, probably about 13, grabbed the new screamin' kit of jason. his face was beaming when he turned to the shops owner and asked "does it look just like this?" (referring to the photo on the lid). the owner replies "it's a kit. you have to put it together and paint it.". the kids face fell, and with an air of great disappointment, he put it back on the shelf. the owner and i looked at one another knowing we had just seen an exemplary moment.


It was a moment like this that got me _into_ this hobby. Some time in 1969 I was browsing the local toy store when a box on the shelf caught my eye--it was Aurora's Forgotten Prisoner kit, the "Fright'ning Lightning" version. I grabbed it and ran to the counter to ask what it was, and the clerk was kind enough to explain it was a model kit, you had to glue it together and paint it, etc.. Rather than being disappointed, I was intrigued; I'd never heard of such a thing (I was 7 or 8 years old at the time). I bought the kit, a tube of styrene cement, a couple of bottles of Pactra enamel and thinner, and a couple of brushes, and went to work on it as soon as I got home.

And that was it--the beginning of a life-long passion for model kits. Granted, it was quite possibly the worst "kid built" build-up in the history of model building--hand brushed black and red enamel, glue everywhere, no concept of hiding seams or even trimming off the little bits of sprue that remained on the parts--but, to my young mind, it looked exactly like the box art. I was thrilled! To think I could own three-dimensional representations of what I saw on these boxes opened a whole new world for me.

But, again, that was over 40 years ago. Television was still a relatively new entertainment medium, four-track and eight-track tapes were the height of new technology, and the U.S. was still trying to get to the moon before the Soviet Union.


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## Atemylunch (Jan 16, 2006)

razorwyre1 said:


> atemylunch, something else happened at almost exactly the same time that star wars was released that had a much greater impact on model kits (and everything else kids spent their money on): space invaders. the video game revolution devastated the whole of the kids hobby market, and a great many companies did not survive it. anything that relied on allowances for purchases was s.o.l., because that money was being converted into quarters to be fed to the machines.
> 
> anyone that doesnt believe that the hobby is graying should look at a photo of the crowd at wonderfest.


Very true, I can't tell you how much time I wasted in arcades(I do miss that). 
Just an aside there was an arcade in in Tempe, AZ. called Starship Fantasy, of course the games were great, but my attention was on the scratch built spaceships hanging from the ceiling(they were not small). 

Come to think of it another thing happened at the same time, the VCR. 

I can't argue with your last statement, I've run into a lot of kids around the boards. I don't think the numbers are where they once were. But a small market is still out there, I just don't think it would make anybody rich. 
It seems to me the direction of the market(as a whole) is geared more towards those of us that grew up in(or around) the 70's. 

Lucky for me I have one really good hobby shop in the area. But I find I don't go there very much, most of my supplies I get online. That wasn't by choice, one day I ran all over town trying to find Tamiya primer. I only found 2 cans(I needed at least 4, I'm building some big planes) after going by three shops. All of the shops I went by have a great selection of kits. But when it comes to supplies I hate to say it, they were all lacking. Sure they can order what I want, but it does cost more(one problem with buying locally, sales tax, fuel and time), and at it can take longer to get the product than going through an online store. 

It is sad to see any hobby shop close, I hate to say it, but change is our only constant. Those guys that have stores try their best to keep open. There were stores around Phoenix I wished never closed(Websters, Tower Hobbies). But there a few(Hobby Bench) that haven't closed(and I hope never) that have been in the same place for more than 30 years. With great selections of everything, but I don't live near them. So I can't frequent them. 

But like what happened to sci-fi in general things are going to the internet. 

We are truly living in the golden age of modeling the product out there is amazing. Our shopping options are unlimited when compared to the old days.


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## razorwyre1 (Jan 28, 2004)

well vcrs and microwave ovens didnt really start becoming widespread until the price dropped a couple of years later. in fact, i feel that these new technologies were the primary cause of the economic turn-around of the early 80s.

i was 17 in 77, and spoke to a few hobby store owners at that time. the summer of 77 was devastating for them, and they had no doubt about the cause: "space invaders" (soon to be followed by dozens of other games). 

The other things contributed a little, but they were minor in relation to that. in fact it might be interesting to look up the names of the toy and novelty companies that gave up he ghost between 1977 and 1980, and compare the number of closures per year to any period before or after.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

SteveR said:


> If my dad weren't a model railroader and tool & die man, I doubt I'd have taken up this hobby. His generation made their own fun. They built motorcycles from spare parts. My Uncle Peter built a Mini-Cooper by cannibalizing parts from three wrecks in his driveway ... without a manual. But those guys grew up in the depression, when they had to know how to fix things and make things. It was a necessary survival skill.


I think your uncle needed to to drive more carefully in his driveway!! 



I know what you're saying. My dad cobbled together a working Model T from spare parts when he was a teenager in the late 1930s. And it was still running in the 1990s (with many different parts!).


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## newbie dooby (Nov 1, 2006)

Modeling is a dieing hobby...just as it has been pushed out of the Hollywood it is being replaced as the hobby of choice among younger people. As a teacher I can tell you that the kids think it is very boring.

It has nothing to do with their ability to sit and finish something it's just "old" and is as interesting to them as the game of croquet is to a 20 something (me). Hobbies come and go and it seems for the time being modeling is on the way out.

The age bracket on this website and SSM continually gets older each year without any young blood being added. I see the same thing at my LHS. Same crowd gets older each year...hardly see any young people going in and out. 

It's just the nature of things...someday it will be a lost art where only a select few actually do it.


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

I don't really see modeling as a dying hobby, but I think that the demographic has changed considerably over the past two decades, though. I think that most of the modelers out there now are 40+ years of age. Perhaps the majority of them in the Baby-Boomer Generation (approx. 1946-64), being rounded out with the pre and post-boomer generations (Silent Generation, approx. 1930-45) and Generation X (approx. 1965-81).

The nice thing is that over the past few years, I have seen more Generation Y kids (approx. 1982-99) attending and participating in model shows than I had previously. Part of this may be attributable to the resurgence of classic plastic kits and kit companies along with the release of new "classic" craft that the younger set are just now discovering. So, though it has changed, I doubt if it is dying out.

Brick-and-mortar hobby shops are, unfortunately, on the decline. But, I think that speaks for a lot of brick-and-mortar establishments these days, considering the impact of online sales.


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## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

But online sales of MOST items has NOT replaced the overall sales from Brick and mortar, because if it had, many companies would not be struggling, not to mention out of business.

Not everyone has a credit card.

Not everyone has the union of computer and internet connection of the right speed and power to access many of the online stores (thank you poor site design, Flash and Java)

Not everyone knows how to search for items, because every online store I've ever visited has HORRIBLE search functions, because the min-wage person tasked with the proper tagging and data entry of product often fails to do so.

Not everyone even KNOWS some things are even available.

Online stores are perfect if you know exactly what you want. They're horrible for causal browsing. 'also suggested' links you see on the page are a joke, because people PAY to get their product suggested even tho it CLEARLY has no link, no common ground with the item you're looking at. 

You can't have those 'happy surprise' moments in an online store. I recall once, near Chicago a friend and myself had stopped at a local hobby shop, I wanted to get some paints. While walking past the train supplies I spotted some liquid cement from a German company, I bought it, and it was the best plastic cement I think I had ever used. Never been able to find it again, it's probably online somewhere, but I DID find it THEN because it was on a peg hook next to a bunch of Rocco minitanks which I was looking at, so, there's that.


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

newbie dooby said:


> Modeling is a dieing hobby...just as it has been pushed out of the Hollywood it is being replaced as the hobby of choice among younger people. As a teacher I can tell you that the kids think it is very boring.
> 
> It has nothing to do with their ability to sit and finish something it's just "old" and is as interesting to them as the game of croquet is to a 20 something (me). Hobbies come and go and it seems for the time being modeling is on the way out.
> 
> ...


I'd say the opinion of a twenty something is almost worthless as it relates to the interests of the masses. You just haven't been around long enough to develop the wisdom. Retro interests occur all the time. The 1950's were stupid and boring in the 1960's but when Happy Days came to TV it started a big interest in retro. What is cool changes all the time. Model building and stop motion are still important skills in Hollywood. Jurassic Parks dino's would not have been possible without the skills and understanding of weight and motion that the Stop-motion guys had. The modern CGI guys were unable to create believable dinos by themselves, and that picture was almost scrapped. CGI continues to look like CGI.

I say you are wrong in your assessment as to why Johnny can't build. I watched firsthand as kids could not think clearly, had no skills and became easily frustrated at actually having to do work to complete a project. Teachers and lousy parents are mostly to blame here. lazy kids seems to be the main product of public schools. You have to inspire someone to take on the challanges no matter what it might be.


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## James Tiberius (Oct 23, 2007)

sorry to a few of you guys who think guys in their 20s (me: 26) dont matter in this hobby, but you`re dead wrong. i am just as passionate about modeling as you old people. and the next generation is fine too. my 5 year old son spent all day yesterday helping me construct a frame for an 18 x 18 borg cube and woke up asking if we could build some more.


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

I would not say it is a dying hobby (there are more new kits and reissues coming out today than ever before). The numbers of that alone indicate its popularity. 

I will say that perhaps the audience is a bit different today. But I have been in the retail hobby business since about 1985. I don't remember selling many kits to kids back then either. But it is an adult hobby. Most of my customers are from their mid to late 20s on up. Most are 50+. I do have kids that get models, usually because they have a dad or grand dad that fosters that interest.

I do notice that people that buy different kinds of kits have different spending habits. Perhaps some types of modellers are more "serious" than others? Tank guys will buy two $70 Dragon kits, a box of $25 Tamiya Figures, a couple $10 armor magazines, and a load of paint... and come back next week or so and do the same things. Car modellers whine about not being able to get $7 kits at Wal Mart and begrudgingly shell out $19 for a single kit. Plane guys usually buy a kit or two in their interest area, and come back frequently. Sci Fi type guys seem cheap. They build kits often in very narrow interest categories. I can say hey, I got in the new 2001 Moon Bus and they will say sorry I only build Deep Space 9, or The Black Hole, etc.


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## Zombie_61 (Apr 21, 2004)

djnick66 said:


> I do notice that people that buy different kinds of kits have different spending habits. Perhaps some types of modellers are more "serious" than others? Tank guys will buy two $70 Dragon kits, a box of $25 Tamiya Figures, a couple $10 armor magazines, and a load of paint... and come back next week or so and do the same things. Car modellers whine about not being able to get $7 kits at Wal Mart and begrudgingly shell out $19 for a single kit. Plane guys usually buy a kit or two in their interest area, and come back frequently.


From an outside observer's point of view (i.e., someone who isn't in the business of producing or selling model kits) I'd say this is due to modelers becoming accustomed to a certain price range per kit within their genre of choice. In my experience military kits, particularly tanks, ships, and some aircraft, generally are far more detailed and have a higher part count than kits from other genres, and are therefore priced higher. By comparison, car kits have a relatively low part count so car modelers are used to paying lower prices.



djnick66 said:


> Sci Fi type guys seem cheap. They build kits often in very narrow interest categories. I can say hey, I got in the new 2001 Moon Bus and they will say sorry I only build Deep Space 9, or The Black Hole, etc.


Considering how easily I get bored, I can't understand the mindset of someone who is that specific about the kits they build. It's like the silly debate about "Star Trek vs. Star Wars" (or any other competing sci-fi franchises, for that matter). They're both great, why does anyone _have_ to choose one over the other? I understand having _preferences_, but sheesh!


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## MadCap Romanian (Oct 29, 2005)

The hobby world is strange, especially in these times, but I don't think it's dying. Otherwise Revell, AMT and the rest would have packed it in. Instead, they give us new kits all the time.

If those huge companies gamble on new kit production, then surely the market exists.


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## mach7 (Mar 25, 2002)

James Tiberius said:


> sorry to a few of you guys who think guys in their 20s (me: 26) dont matter in this hobby, but you`re dead wrong. i am just as passionate about modeling as you old people. and the next generation is fine too. my 5 year old son spent all day yesterday helping me construct a frame for an 18 x 18 borg cube and woke up asking if we could build some more.



Thanks for posting this. It's very gratifying to hear this!


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

Actually, I said I don't think the OPINION of a 20 something was of much value. I blame the poor performing kids on their lousy uninspiring parents and teachers. A great Art teacher can inspire the students to try big projects, not just do a mediocre job on little ones. Union teachers as a group are pathetic, and the lower standards the kids have today is a prime example.


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## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

After reading the doom and gloom posts in this thread I have a story that might give some here reason to hope that all is not quite lost. My young nephew lives in Southern CA. He's a bright boy and likes to build LEGOS toys. Knowing this, I figured he might be open to constructing models. For his 10th birthday his mother brought him up to my mom's house for a visit and I took him down to the LHS offering to buy him a model with a budget of 20 bucks to work with. It also had to be a snap-together kit as his mother, my sister, didn't want him working with glue and paint until he was a few years older. I have a feeling this had more to do with his not making a mess than any concerns about breathing toxic fumes. Anyway, I was hoping he might select the 1/1000 Polar Lights Enterprise kit but instead he picked out a set of Snap-Tite military vehicles with stick-on decals. It was a real kick to sit with him at the kitchen counter as he methodically assembled the tank, half-track, and helicopter that came in the kit. A year later when I showed up at the house for another visit the first thing he said to me was, "Can we go to the the hobby store ??? I have 20 dollars I won in a contest to spend!" So my friends, there is hope after all.


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## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

That IS good, and very positive!

I think the key is (was?), and I'm guessing the eventual use, he wanted something he could play with afterwards.

That's surely what drove me in my early building years, I was building *gasp* toys. My Aurora Seaview took many a voyage to the bottom of our above ground pool, as did the Flying Sub. The Chariot from the deluxe LIS kit made plenty of harrowing travels across dirtpiles and beaches, and so on. 

And even when I was building armor in the '70s, I did take delight in those old Tamiya tanks that were motorized. The ones with twin motors and a wired remote control box? Gold. I eventually abandoned those for the 'static' kits and diorama building but still, it was FUN.

Just gotta get those prices down. That's my view.


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## MadCap Romanian (Oct 29, 2005)

I think that element of "play" is quite important. I played with a ton of my models when I was a kid...everything from the Star Trek 3-in-1 to the model cars and Star Wars models. Even the model airplanes were played with by making the propeller spin and the "WWI Dogfights" that went on between the Nieuports and Fokker Triplanes. Balsa wood airplanes were also a part of that nostalgic past too.

As for accomplishments, I think model kits are the progressive step up from Lego. Kids that build a lot of Lego should get moved into models. I think that if it wasbn't for Lego, I wouldn't have built models. And that was the Lego of the late 1970's and earily 1980's.

Now, if we can tap into that spirit of "play" and "Accomplishment", we might get the kids away from the Xbox a little more often.


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## Bimmicus (Mar 18, 2010)

One sector that has seen substantial interest from the under-30 set is Japanese mecha modeling, particularly the various Gundam series from Bandai. Granted, the snap-and-it's-done qualities of these kits are a major part their appeal, and many of these modelers don't even paint – but there is an interest there, and a strong one. Bandai is pumping out more of these things than ever, and demand for them remains high. So that's one bright spot, at least.

Otherwise, I agree that videogames and rising oil prices were a one-two punch that plastic modeling never fully recovered from. True, we're getting some fantastic kits these days, but no one is trying to cultivate the youth market anymore. Where are all the fun, cheap kits that today's kids would find appealing? Where's their equivalent of Tom Daniels customs, Deal's Wheels, Prehistoric Scenes, et al? Nowhere, that's where. Kids today don't give a smooth fart about Lost in Space or Star Trek or Universal monsters. Subjects actually relevant to their interests might draw them into the hobby, but Aurora reissues and $40 aircraft models probably won't.

Bandai seems to get this in a way other manufacturers don't. They tend to offer a wide range of kits for all price and skill levels, and they've figured out how to appeal to six-year-olds, greybeards, and everyone in between. Then again, they have resources and market clout well beyond any other manufacturer, so it's not like their example can be easily followed.

Plastic modeling was cool and exciting when I was a kid, filled with all kinds of crazy stuff to build and collect. Now, its image is that of a boring old hobby for boring old people. I'd love to see this change, but I fear no one has the vision or the money to pull it off. Even Bandai failed miserably when they attempted to bring Gundam kits stateside, and if they couldn't turn things around then who can?


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## Mr. Wabac (Nov 9, 2002)

Interesting discussion. I think there are a variety of reasons why the hobby business is in decline. The comments about WarHammer are most interesting; the idea that there has been a shift in interest. I guess in the 1970s that might match up with the rise in interest in wargaming and video gaming.

Might I suggest another factor in the mix as well, which is the Second World War and Vietnam. For military models the primary interest has been the production of kits from this era. For kids, the interest in those kits probably peaked in the early 70 as that's when the Baby Boom passed. No longer would there be the same level of interest from kids as it was becoming a connection with their grandfather's generation, not their Dad's. It was also the case, in the early 70s that there was a backlash from parents to exposing young kids to anything to do with the military.

How to recapture the market ? Who knows. Might not happen.

As to the comments regarding LEGO, if I use my nephew as an example he had a strong interest in LEGO as a kid, but it was to buy a set and build it. Once built it sat and collected dust - he had no interest in it anymore; no imagination to make it into anything other than what the instructions said it could be made into.


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## Bimmicus (Mar 18, 2010)

I'd also observe that basic modeling supplies used to be very easy to find – who among us of a certain age does not feel giddy at the sight of a tiny, white-labeled bottle of gooey Testors enamel? You could easily get cement and paint and brushes at toy stores, five & dimes, department stores, anyplace that sold models basically. I imagine, though, that after enough dumb kids poisoned themselves on the stuff the more mainstream retailers began bailing out. The day Toys 'R' Us lost its Testors rack was a dark day indeed, and truly the beginning of the end.

(oddly enough, I ran across a few Wal-Marts earlier in this decade which still maintained a small, caged-up Testors rack alongside their meager model kit selection, but that was before they got rid of the models entirely)


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## razorwyre1 (Jan 28, 2004)

Bimmicus, i think when it comes to both designs that appeal to the teen, tween, and under crowd and the availability of supplies, theres something of a catch-22 going on. 

with the designs, the cost of tooling up a kit is high enough to deter anyone from taking a risk on subjects that would appeal to a market that doesnt presently exist. besides, since the type of stores that the kids shop at dont carry models, and kids arent shopping at hobby stores, how would they even know that those subjects are available?

as to the supplies, if the stores dont carry the kits, why should they carry the stuff needed to build them? aside from that, as a former B&M retailer, i shudder to think of the shrinkage caused by shoplifting from just one of those paint racks. that alone is enough to make it more trouble than its worth for most retailers. 

unfortunately, i think a major change in the way kids think is needed in order to bring them back into the fold, and i just dont see that happening.


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## robster94gt (Feb 5, 2009)

When I go to any of my local shops the people milling about are definitely old veterans. If there are any kids, they are with their dads who are trying to keep the tradition of building alive. The impression I get of 60's and 70's modeling is that kids were going into shops looking for the kool new stuff they saw advertised in their comic books, or just looking for the next thing to blow their allowance on. They didn't have a mentor who knew anything about models, hence the "glue bombs" that so many here have improved on the second time around. That's probably the only lasting legacy of model kits in general - the stigma of it being kid's stuff. I'm speaking in very general terms of course.

What do you guys think of the whole McFarlane toys boom. I'd always been a fan of replicas, props, figures etc... but never even attempted to build anything because I didn't grow up building models.  I remember when I saw my first pre-painted Akira and Army of Darkness figures I was blown away. These weren't action figures, but real models of those great subjects! They might not be of the quality of the hand painted stuff guys do here, but to me at that time it was a way to get the stuff from my favorite movies and put it on my shelf. In fact if I could paint a figure like that I'd be pretty darn happy. Those original figures have spawned (har har) a whole industry of figures and busts covering every possible popular and cult movie. Go to a comic book shop and check it out. It seems to me there is a bigger interest in the subject matter that models portray than ever before. It's just that for the casual buyer, when faced with a figure that costs half the price of a kit (if it were even available), and it's finished to level of detail they could only dream about, the choice seems easy.
Anybody know how many units these McFarlane type figures sell compare to a model kit? Or how many of those lights and sound Enterprises sell compared to an AMT kit?


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## Bruce Bishop (Jan 17, 1999)

I love the prepainted figures being put out, and diecast toys, etc. 

However, I have a much more emotional and sentimental ties to model kits that I have assembled and painted myself, regardless of the quality of my work on any given kit. 

There are some prebuilt 'toys' that I really really like, but that's a combination of the subject matter and how inexpensively I was able to buy the item. 

Since I ran out of both money and space, I have stopped buying prebuilt figures, diecasts, etc. except for the Hotwheels 1:50 Batman vehicles. Other than the Hotwheels, the last toy I bought was a couple of years ago, one of the big remote controlled Daleks. I had fun running it around the room and chasing our dog with it. Fortunately he didn't try to bite it! 

I still buy the occassional model kit, reissue or new. But price is a definite factor now, when it was not a few years ago when I was single and employed.


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## MadCap Romanian (Oct 29, 2005)

I wonder if it's "Territorial". I'm trying to think of any hobby shops that I know of that closed down in Calgary since I moved here in 2000. Even with the recession and all, none come to mind. 

However, from what I hear from you guys in the USA, the problem of hobby shops closing down is greater. 

Maybe Canada didn't get hit so hard in the recession and with the "war on Terrorism" expenses?


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## rkoenn (Dec 18, 2007)

I am approaching 57 later this year. I started building models at the age of 8 or 9. Funny thing is I picked it up all on my own, my dad loved baseball and didn't mind me building models but never had an interest himself. I had two younger brothers who built a couple but that was it for them. I continued to build some monsters, mainly cars, a couple of military kits, and ultimately became fascinated with space. At that point I almost quit plastics and did model rockets, the kind you build. I did that almost continuously even to this day. I dropped out of building for a couple of years in college though. I had two sons who have moved on now and they never had any real interest even with the chance to do it and a bit of prodding. The older did build and fly rockets with me for 2 or 3 years. However as so many pointed out there was the computer and video games. That combined with no real personal interest and they never wanted to build. I have attempted to interest a couple of nephews but again, I am not around them often and they do not appear interested enough to continue without me. But they do play those video games and do some sports. Probably a bit of that is because their parents aren't interested in either spending time with them on models or even being supportive. I can't explain my interest, which was strictly my own and which I have never lost, but I did become an engineer and work for NASA and that at least kept me in a job that this fit in with rather well.

I also remember growing up in Tarpon Springs, FL and going to the hobby shop in Clearwater any chance I got. I usually had something in mind to spend my lawn mowing money on. And me, my brothers, and friends spent loads of time outdoors playing rather than sitting inside playing video games (there were none) or watching the tube. But growing up in the 60s was different. As others have said, parents (pretty much rightfully so) don't let kids do that any more. I rarely see kids running down the streets in our safe neighborhood. We were everywhere within a 5 miles radius when we were kids and our parents did not worry.

Personally I blame this trend on the take it easy, instant gratification generation we have wrought. Kids, honestly, don't want to spend much time on projects like model building. Certainly there are exceptions but for the majority that is the way it is. Most of my friends did a bit of modeling when I was a kid but I was definitely the most enamored of it. I rarely collect pre-built items for the shelf since to me building it is what makes it worth putting on the shelf. And I have seen this in rocketry too. I would never buy a pre-built rocket but Estes has pretty much gone in that direction since the kids don't want to build anymore. And Estes makes even more money if they can just get them out there buying and flying in as short a time as possible. I believe it is a generational thing but don't hold much personal hope that this current generation will ever develop our interest in modeling to the extent that we would see significant participation by them. But I will model until you have to pry the glue bottle and airbrush from my cold dead hands and love it all the way.


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## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

Model Rockets and building them, it might not be generational. I could never really get the knack of the subtle science, the finishing, the balancing, making sure you had your CG in the right place. I flew Cox 'ready to fly' rockets and had a ball. Some of them didn't fly well- the Saturn 1-B (twin engines) had a major ignition failure and pinwheeled across the field, and the twin glider booster was just suck, but boy, did the Honest John perform!

I would think RTF rockets would be a hit as most every kid loves to see stuff blow up and if not that, launch real high but maybe it's just too much work to pack that chute and chase after it. Or parents are too afraid little Johnny might be hurt by that mean old C-class solid rocket motor.


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## rkoenn (Dec 18, 2007)

Steve H said:


> Model Rockets and building them, it might not be generational. I could never really get the knack of the subtle science, the finishing, the balancing, making sure you had your CG in the right place. I flew Cox 'ready to fly' rockets and had a ball. Some of them didn't fly well- the Saturn 1-B (twin engines) had a major ignition failure and pinwheeled across the field, and the twin glider booster was just suck, but boy, did the Honest John perform!
> 
> I would think RTF rockets would be a hit as most every kid loves to see stuff blow up and if not that, launch real high but maybe it's just too much work to pack that chute and chase after it. Or parents are too afraid little Johnny might be hurt by that mean old C-class solid rocket motor.


Well I guess since I was headed into engineering when I got really serious about model rocketry, about 1967 or so, I looked at it from a technical viewpoint as well. And a big part was simply that I enjoyed building things and the resulting model. I do admit to enjoying a great flight and the occasional cato, as long as it isn't mine! In those early days there was no such thing as a RTF rocket and you really had to work to get a good build. I didn't know about sealing balsa and epoxies and such back then and did it all with Elmer's and enamel. Of course I soon learned how to seal balsa and the various paints and adhesives. And I've flown almost every brand and type of engine. Nowadays it has expanded into some new technologies and hugely larger engines and rockets (and cost). So I still enjoy flying them, except for chasing them, and have done some lower high power stuff myself. Still, I will not buy a RTF rocket and I guess take a very negative perspective if that is all someone ever builds. Just my prejudice I guess. Just like I would not buy a built up plastic model for display, if I am going to display it I want to say I built that myself.


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

My first model was a very small waterline model of the Yamato that I got at a "Super Giant food store" about 1963. I did a dismal job, too much glue, etc. Next I got the Aurora Cyclops in late '64 or early '65. Did better. My dad did the decals since I didn't get it about how they worked. I later did some Weird-Ohs like Mr. Gasser and Rat Fink. I also did a few small airplanes from Hawk I think... A supermarine biplane with pontoons! Soon after I did a Seaview, and Invaders ship. I still have the Invader ship! by 68 or so I did the Flying sub and by '69 the Spindrift. I kept getting better with each kit. In 1970, I discovered Magic and stopped doing plastic models until 1974, when I did the Entex Titanic. It was the last model entirely hand brush painted. In 1972 I started doing N scale model railroading too, and discovered washes!!! I also did the model rocket thing with Estes kits. When Star Wars came out I started back up with sci-fi kits, doing the Falcon, Star Destroyer, a bunch of AT-AT's and a Tyderium and Slave-1. I took some time off to do RC Airplanes. After 8 years, I quit that due to costs and a new allergy to sanding Balsa and CA. I continued the model Railroading in HO scale and through all the hobbies, at first I sucked, but got better until either I try to out-do myself, or got bored. Right now I'm bored with plastic models and even bored of the Model Railroad. I will be taking a break from all that until the fall. I wanna complete my patio....


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## Bradleyfett (Jan 22, 2003)

MadCap Romanian said:


> I personally think what's happened is that the hobby shop owners or employees don't really show anyone how to do anything. I think they assume the customer knows what they're doing and they just sit back at the counter and collect money. Well, once the people forget how to do things, they won't buy anything unless it's pre-built. The goal is to get them building again, even if you have to show them the booring old basics until your brain explodes. You have to be active and not reactive.


 
I think you really hit on something here. The thing that hooked me when I was young was going to a couple model shows and seeing what people had built right there in front of me. Since models shows are few and far between these days, I've always felt that shops need to have a 'models show' in the store- there need to be some completed models on display (as many genres as possible) and there needs to be someone there who can tell you how to do things- 

I love setting up works-in-progress at shows, especially those shows that have a good amount of walk-through traffic (general public). People love to see somebody building something. If you grab that kind of attention in a store, you'll hook a large percentage of people who come in.

M


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## Guy Schlicter (May 3, 2004)

Hi Folks, I have some good news. I sell and trade with a Hobby Shop in Manhattan called the Red Caboose. He's a combination hobby and train store and he always seems to have a good customer turn out and as a matter of fact I was there once and a customer bought $1000 dollars worth of merchandise. I hope it stays this way for him.


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## CaptFrank (Jan 29, 2005)

Y3a said:


> Actually, I said I don't think the OPINION of a 20 something was of much value. I blame the poor performing kids on their lousy uninspiring parents and teachers. A great Art teacher can inspire the students to try big projects, not just do a mediocre job on little ones. Union teachers as a group are pathetic, and the lower standards the kids have today is a prime example.


Slightly related to your point - 

I had one teacher in High School who taught me to write creative fiction.
He did this by assigning projects that required us to restate given facts
through storytelling. It was a Geography class. My best report was a 
story of an alien race chasing a criminal that landed on Earth. The report
was a dossier of Earth, the Solar System, and its inhabitants. I even
turned in the paper inside a yellow folder labeled "For Your Eyes Only"
written in large letters across the front, diagonally.

By pushing me to write, Mr. Madden helped me develop a skill I never
would have had, otherwise.


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## Cajjunwolfman (Nov 15, 2004)

Relative importance of the subject is reflected by how long this thread and discussion has continued. 

Consider the importance of marketing in our consumer based society. Focus groups, survey groups in malls, groups to review instructions, see if the color is pleasing, etc. I once took a survey on snack chips; they asked spent two hours asking questions just about the shape of the container. I mean there are degrees, entire companies who do nothing but marketing. Yet in the hobby industry is even the most basic marketing ever done? I mean who do they ask what kits are wanted? A once a year list in FSM? Do they ever have builders review kit instrucitons or makeup or box art or anything before they release the actual product? No they don't even do the most basic, most lame, most simple items. How much would this enhance our hobby?

Lots of good points have been made. When I was involved in my local model club trying to recruit new members, IE Younger Generation, we did a survey. We found most parents (especially single parent households) were not really that concerned about the price of the kits or the supplies if the child was interested. Their real concern was support and follow-up. How could the child get help with building, techniques, etc. Thats where GW is really smart and few LHS's are. 

That all being said this is indeed the Golden Age. Look all the unique kits, products, and aftermarket being offered. IMHO this is all because its driven by discretionary income of our age group.

Always was facinated by discussion of Highway Hobby. Thought of it as a mythical modeling destination I would someday make a Pilgrimage to visit. Sad to hear of the demise. As far as them succeeding on-line, very competitive environment. I mean there is one site now offering hobby paint similar to Vallejo or GW for $1.50/bottle. Thats less money than dealers can buy it for. Kits can readily be purchased for 20% off retail and you can usually work a deal where the shippinig is free or comparable to the cost of tax you would pay at your LHS. 

I have more kits already than I can build in a lifetime. I could probably go a few years without buying glue, putty, or sheet styrene based on my own inventory. I've got a selection of paints but could use more, paints probably going to always be available in one form of another. My thought question for today would be: Who cares if the Hobby dies?


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## Heavens Eagle (Jun 30, 2003)

Well to this I have to say I moved to Memphis TN from Tulsa OK about 4 years ago. While I lived in Tulsa almost all of my life, I did the kit buys from the dime stores and a place called Shoppers Fair growing up. I remember 30 and 40 foot walls of kits even up to when I was an early teen. Later there was one hobby shop there that had or could get anything you wanted and they also carried games. One went with the other. Due to mismanagement it went the way of the dinosaurs and it became difficult to buy kits.

Then about 4 years ago I moved to Memphis and found Mid South Hobbies. I went in to just see what they had. Lo and behold! Kind of dank and sometimes musty with More than I ever dreamed of. Have dropped more $ in there the last few months than in the last 10 years! I really have gotten the bug to build again for the first time in almost 20 years. (lost it mostly due to a hard divorce)

The hardest part has been getting all my tools back together. Storage in Tulsa still plus tons of boxes of who knows what. It has been an adventure! So many new kits from Check Republic and the Orient!

One of the neatest things is that Yes most of the guys in the shop are older, but I see a lot of them bringing in kids and younger generation. Sometimes for building or racing slot cars, sometimes to pick out kits.]

That is basically what gets me to build. It is folks going "where did you get that?" and I get to say "I built it!" Half the time they stop and look closer and then it really gets interesting.


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