# I think Leno is on to something (spray on chrome)



## Steve244 (Jul 22, 2001)

I have no idea how I would use this, but the process is too fascinating not to watch.

link


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## superduty455 (Jun 21, 2000)

Thanks for sharing that. IF that stuff does what it shows in the vid he has a sure fire winner on his hands. 
The applications in modeling would be awesome. No more sending stuff out to a chromer, no more Alclad.
I suppose it all hinges on the cost. I've bookmarked his website and hope to see something soon.
Thanks again!
Chris


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## Zombie_61 (Apr 21, 2004)

superduty455 said:


> I suppose it all hinges on the cost.


I checked the website mentioned in the video, but it's still being set up. There is a U.S. Chrome Solutions website, but the two don't appear to be directly related. FYI, the U.S. Chrome Solutions' products are expensive--$230 for a gallon of basecoat, $400 for 540 ml of silver (which, according to the website, makes about 5 gallons), $250 for a gallon of clear top coat...you get the idea.


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## Smalblok355 (Oct 22, 2004)

*WOW!!!!*
now thats awesome!:dude:


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## Steve244 (Jul 22, 2001)

Zombie_61 said:


> I checked the website mentioned in the video, but it's still being set up. There is a U.S. Chrome Solutions website, but the two don't appear to be directly related. FYI, the U.S. Chrome Solutions' products are expensive--$230 for a gallon of basecoat, $400 for 540 ml of silver (which, according to the website, makes about 5 gallons), $250 for a gallon of clear top coat...you get the idea.


Good point, but even at $400 for 5 gallons, that's cheap if an enterprising person bottles it for modelers. (scribble scribble) That's $0.62 per fluid oz (tamiya paints are a couple bucks for 1/3 fl oz. (wanders off to apply for a small business loan...)

Checking out the US site it seems the German Leno had on got his stuff from them. I wonder where the guys in Tennessee get it from. Looks like they're packaging it and selling a "plating station." I think some sprayer bottles would work fine...


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## superduty455 (Jun 21, 2000)

I too did a little more sleuthing. THe spray guns they were using looked a bit different than our normal spray guns. Maybe because they are $4,000?


I'm curious about the website too. It's a lot of money to put out up front for the product. Watching him apply the stuff, it appears a lot of waste too. I suppose that is what you get for eas of use.
Chris


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## Steve244 (Jul 22, 2001)

Watching the Leno video, and the one in the US that they are trying to adapt the process for coating mirrors. They are trying to sell it as an industrial product for small businesses.

The Leno vid doesn't show how they "painted" the basecoat, but from the US site it looks to be some sort of exotic two part epoxy. Whether that's mandatory or not isn't apparent. It's not clear if the base coat is to fill pitting or provide a foundation for the silvering (probably both). The US site shows a couple models in their gallery...

The silvering itself appears to be a chemical process. I bet plastic spray bottles would work for small applications. First they apply a "sensitizer" and then the actual silvering agent. Depending on how nasty the base coat is it may be impractical for home use.

(wanders off to google mirror silvering techniques)


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## Steve244 (Jul 22, 2001)

from this website it looks like a little of this (sensitizer?) dissolved in distilled water, then a little of this, fudge it with a little advice from this site (it should be easier with the sensitizer) and then hey presto: shiny!

I still think the "basecoat" is key to success, and they're not talking, much.

Edit: I bet the clearcoat is special too. If it doesn't have neutral PH the silver oxidizes and you wind up with black.


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## JeffG (May 10, 2004)

Say it with me now; Royal Naboo Starship!


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## Tim H. (Jun 23, 2009)

My ex-workplace bought this or a similar system - $25K - for coating theme park and store props (sculpted out of foam, hard coated with sprayed truck bed liner). Didn't work so well cause I don't think they got the clear coat. It was touted as being usable for motorcycle parts and the stuff Jay is showing but without the clear coat it failed the painters "stick" test on our product.

The spray tray the guy is using recovers the silver run off for reuse. Not sure what their base is. Cool stuff, be nice if you could airbrush it.

And what's with Jay's hair, he going for the Twilight look?


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## Steve244 (Jul 22, 2001)

I think Jay has too damn many open roadsters (and no hair stylist on staff at his garage).

I think he and I were going ooo ahhhh over a simple chemical reaction (we're easily entertained). The video and associated website make no mention of how difficult it is to achieve a smooth substrate and clearcoat.

Still the chemicals are cheap and it might be an interesting experiment. The smooth surfaces certainly aren't a problem for many around here. Neither should the clearcoat. Applying it to a 1:1 53 Buick might be a different story.

Naboo Starship! (is it ok to say that around here?)


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## Tim H. (Jun 23, 2009)

Just remembering the company did get the clear coat cause they were trying out the color tints which go in the clear. Maybe the surface was not quite smooth enough, or not enough clear coat finish, maybe a humidity thing, maybe it works better on abs and other plastics.


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## MadCap Romanian (Oct 29, 2005)

We won't know unless someone buys some.

the way the guy painted that plastic piece made me think of the old 1920's car films where the workers paint a Model T with a fire hose!


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## Steve244 (Jul 22, 2001)

Doing more reading, I think the stannous chloride, the reducing agent, is sprayed by the same gun as the silver nitrate solution. The two spray streams merge outside of the spray gun and before hitting the object you want to silver. Pure silver precipitates as a result.

Still trying to figure out what the sensitizer is that is sprayed on first (may be just more stannous chloride or similar).

In any case the process of spraying on the silver is trickier than it looks. Gonna have to watch the Leno video again to see if his gun has two nozzles.

Here's a link to another company that does it.

The spray gun and quantities necessary to get an even coating on just a small object may place this outside the resources of the hobbyist...

(wanders off to duct tape two airbrushes together...)


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## Dyonisis (Nov 11, 2009)

It seems that my words fall onto deaf ears on another site similar to this one, so I'll try here: www.sprayonchrome.com which uses distilled water to help apply their product, or you can use www.alsacorp.com which is better quality than anything else, and you don't need water to apply this straight from a spray paint can. 

~ Another Chris


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## superduty455 (Jun 21, 2000)

Hey Chris. Have you used alsa? I know that it is in aerosol form, but it is also expensive. Although, the system that Jay is showing isn't cheap either. I think the problem here is cost and what it does for our hobby. Buying that means less money for kits or photo etch etc..
I see where you are coming from though.
Chris


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## Steve244 (Jul 22, 2001)

The key to any of these "systems" is applying a stream of silver nitrate and a reducing agent that mix just before hitting the surface, producing pure silver as a precipitate.

The chemicals just aren't that expensive (even the silver, in the tiny amount needed) and an applicator could probably be devised from a pair of airbrushes mounted together.

The trick is there has to be a basecoat that's mirror smooth (I think they're using epoxy), then apply the silver, and cover it with an epoxy clearcoat to protect it, otherwise it'll oxidize pretty fast and turn black.

I don't think it's beyond some chemistry nerd to cook up a hobby spray-on silvering system but it'd take some experimentation. I'm not up to the task.

Here's their secret weapon; a dual air sprayer...


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## Dyonisis (Nov 11, 2009)

superduty455 said:


> Hey Chris. Have you used alsa? I know that it is in aerosol form, but it is also expensive. Although, the system that Jay is showing isn't cheap either. I think the problem here is cost and what it does for our hobby. Buying that means less money for kits or photo etch etc..
> I see where you are coming from though.
> Chris


Oh, well - we all have to make sacrifices sometimes. You'll only have to buy it once. That's why I posted the Alsacorp because it's the cheapest with the best quality around! It's a hell of a lot better than *$1500.00* for the spay on chrome!!!!  

Think of it this way, if you buy a can of the Alsacorp "Killer chrome" coat, and a can of the clear - how many models do you think you can paint for $86.00? ($43.00 a can) That's infitesimally small compared to what it would cost having to pay for electroplating, or chroming parts the old way. I can get about 50 cars at $10.00 each with the spay can, as you can also spray this into a paint jar, and airbrush it on as well. Think about it - 10 x 50 = *$500.00*! Are you getting what I'm saying now? It's a lot cheaper in the long run. You don't have to buy this stuff ever again if you only build a few cars a year, or at least you get what you paid for times ten!

Imagine selling a model to anyone with chromed - not foil, but actual chrome (Alsacorp is actual chrome, not silver) parts, you'll make more money on one that looks more realistic than one that just looks like someone built at home with aluminum foil which is not as bright, or reflective. I have a 1/12th scale '57 Chevy that I painted with black lacquer, wetsanded, and hand rubbed to a mirror finish. This will be my crowning achievement with models. This will be the Rolls Royce of all the models I've ever built, as I spared no expense on this one. I covered the chrome parts around the windows, and the front and rear windscreens with "Chrome Foil" from bare metal products - it looks fake, and dull, more like nickel color than chrome. I'm going to remove this when I get some Alsacorp "Killer Chrome". It makes no sense to go all out in every detail, then have just one part that will ruin the beauty of the whole thing! I'm glad I waited ten years to finish this now that technology has caught up in the paint field.


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## superduty455 (Jun 21, 2000)

Hey Chris, I wasn't bustin' your chops about the price. Most modeler's are cheap, plain and simple. Not everyone is going to look at amortizing the cost over the years. 

I've seen Alsa used on spoon testing and results were almost the same as if someone had used Alclad. I agree, foil doesn't work as well since you must have a flawless finish to get the result intended. 

When you get to that 57 I hope you'll take some pictures to share as I'd love to see it before I dump money into a can. In the end, the cars I build have very little chrome anyway. What chrome their is I use Alclad or very little BMF.
Chris


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## Dyonisis (Nov 11, 2009)

I wasn't offended, but I'm only trying to show you the most econmical way to make something chromed without the acid bath, or solutions that would destroy a plastic model. If this was used for modeling - vaccum plating would be just as expensive, and www.sprayonchrome.com is no solution unless you're a manufacturer. "Killer Chrome" on the other hand is a much more viable way to do chrome effects without spending a lot of money, or time for the average modeler.

I hope that this will help all who read this. I'm not going to use bare metal foil anymore, except for things that need a dull finish instead of a bright one. Bare metal foil is something you can use to line the inside of engine compartments, or trunks. Or, if you want to use it for heatshield inside the passenger compartment of racecar floorpans, or to emulate aluminum. It does have its' applications, but chrome isn't one of them.


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## Zombie_61 (Apr 21, 2004)

Dyonisis said:


> I'm not going to use bare metal foil anymore, except for things that need a dull finish instead of a bright one. Bare metal foil is something you can use to line the inside of engine compartments, or trunks. Or, if you want to use it for heatshield inside the passenger compartment of racecar floorpans, or to emulate aluminum. It does have its' applications, but chrome isn't one of them.


This might be a dumb question, but are you sure you used the _right_ Bare Metal Foil? I've never used it myself, but I've seen numerous photos of build-ups featuring Bare Metal Foil that show it to be bright, shiny, and reflective, very much like chrome. I only ask because I know Bare Metal Foil Co. makes a number of products, including "matte aluminum" BMF.


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## Dyonisis (Nov 11, 2009)

Trust me - I'm POSITIVE! It says it right on the envelope this always comes in. This may look reflective, but compare it to actual chrome, and it doesn't hold a candle! You also get wrinkles in it, even if you're careful, and it never has the reflectance that chrome has. Check out my '57 build - this is what I used for the seats, and door trim. I hand painted the dashboard, and window cranks with metallizer aluminum. All this stuff is: polished aluminum foil.


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## Tim H. (Jun 23, 2009)

Thanks for the link to the Killer Chrome, I'll be passing that onto a car builder friend. Looks like great stuff.


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## old-hermits (Jul 21, 2009)

Or you could just use Chrome Tech ...

http://www.chrometechusa.com/modelplate.html


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