# Personal Transponder $



## schmelme (Mar 28, 2003)

As always i sit down with newbees to toss some speed their way but lately i've been hearing alot of talk about price of ambrc transponders which some tracks require to race. I know 2 years ago 50$ was ok but money i tighter now for most everyone and its hard for people to fork the 80$ they are selling for now. This is a local price and i havent checked around for a better price but how are we supposed to get racing numbers up with a company that corners a market than jabs a guy in the process. I guess its just hard to sell someone something for 80$ and doesnt make them faster. Most new poducts slowly creep down in $ what gives.


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## SuperXRAY (Jul 10, 2002)

As usual and put bluntly, AMBit doesn't care about us (racers), they care about making money.

The fix? Someone needs to release a GOOD transponder system besides AMBit. It seems as though AMBit has some unduplicated technology...or something. Or too much money...


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## tfrahm (Nov 14, 1998)

AMB isn't alone... I have an Orion LCS system I use for timing my oval practice runs... I had a "transponder" die and it cost $49 to replace... I took the dead one apart.. It's a plug with wires to the receiver, an external LED to trigger the counter, and ONE small chip... Probably cost $5 to make...


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## SlipNSlide (Jul 6, 2004)

I contacted AMB about this, and this issue is the exchange rate. The products are made and Europe and right now the Euro is stronger than the dollar.

The $50 a few years ago was a special one time introductory rate and AMB made that clear.

Its not all that expensive if you thing about the fact that you never really have to purchase another one and you can use it at any track.

I know there is small discount if a club or shop purchase a bunch all at one time so you might want to see if there are enough newbies such that the shop can call and get a discount. the details are on the website but you need to call AMB for the specifics.

I luck out at the tracks that I go to because I can use my own or borrow for the race -- might want to see if the shop keep will help out


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## patcollins (Sep 29, 2001)

The issue isnt with die hard racers its with someone who is thinking about starting racing. A transponder costs as much as an entry level kit in some instances.


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## Fred B (Sep 26, 2001)

You'll have a hard time convincing me that the cost to make the personals is the same now as when they started several years ago. The exchange rate is only an excuse. There's no way that the personals cost $25 or more to make and that would be giving 100% markup for AMB and the distributors.

The cost of these transponders is just plain rediculous.


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## OvalmanPA (Mar 21, 2000)

What I don't understand is MAKING people buy the PTs to run at the track. We have "public rechargeable transponders" that people can use if they don't have a personal transponder. I can't see making our racers spend $80 just to race at our track. If you ask me it is just good business practice to have at least 10 rechargable transponders available if there are those that don't have the PTs. The initial investment to the track is more but trust me, it is well worth it and paid off rather quickly.


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## jcovalracer (Jun 16, 2004)

$80.00 is not that much to pay for a device like AMB personal transponder. I look at it this way; 1. Convenience, you don't have to keep running back & fort to the tech table for your transponder. 2. Lightweight, you can use the extra weight saved on other things for the benefit of your car. 3. Aethetic, no more holes in the windshield, body clips & squirly half round scratches too. 4. Re-usable to all type of races. Last but not the least....peace of mind that your car will count all the time and you have the correct transponder number on the lap-counter. :thumbsup: 

:roll:


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## rhodopsine (Aug 13, 2002)

SlipNSlide said:


> I contacted AMB about this, and this issue is the exchange rate. The products are made and Europe and right now the Euro is stronger than the dollar.
> 
> The $50 a few years ago was a special one time introductory rate and AMB made that clear.
> 
> ...


By taking the value of the US $ vs the Euro 2 years ago and comparing to now, the PT should cost 69 US$. Let`s say that the introduction rebate was 10$, well, then the 80$ price tag makes sense! When you live in Canada, you learn to work the exchange rate real fast!!!


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## schmelme (Mar 28, 2003)

I guess my gripe is that rc numbers in our area are down in all classes and i personally am always trying to keep the sport on the rise. Most shops rent transponders for the night for 2$ which most people starting do but then racing is usually around 12$. This just makes me appreciate the companys that promote the sport over pure financial gain. The board inside the personal transponder costs about 3.30 to make.


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## SlipNSlide (Jul 6, 2004)

I contacted AMB via email about price breaks.'

Here is the response:

" When you order 10 or more AMBrc Personal Transponders, the price drops from $83 to $69 each. You also don’t need to find a shop to purchase them for you; you can get that price yourselves simply by calling us and placing the order for 10.

If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me either by phone or via email.

Sincerely,

Dave Fried

AMB i.t. US, Inc."

If you can gather enough people, you can call them up directly and get a price break. The price of the transponder in Europe and Asia is about 69 EUR which is about $85.25 USD.

In terms of manufacturing costs, it is only cheap in quantity for material. That does not consider the cost of engineering and sourcing of material and the actual person required to assemble and package the product as well as the cost of keeping offices in several countries. Every person that touches the item is cost. Distribution is cost etc. if you figure that it comes with a three year warranty, you can use it everywhere, you never need to purchase another and it has a resale value vs $80 you spend on two batteries, its not all that expensive. This hobby is expensive and that is a fact.

If you find a few friends, you can lower the cost and there are price breaks the more that you purchase.


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## Craig (Jan 1, 1970)

More and more tracks are requiring PT's to reduce their losses when people take off and forget to turn the transponders in. Plus it makes it easier on track officials when they don't have to worry abouthanding out transponders and someone getting the wrong one or hearing someone complain that the track transponder missed their lap or counted it slow. Yeah, I've heard them all but the last one about the slow transponder is the best.


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## MADLUX (Aug 4, 2004)

Transponders here at the shop I work at (and the track I run for them) is $83 dollars right now, we do have public transponders and we had to order about 5 new ones from amb becuse people like to walk off with them. I didnt hear an exact amount but the personals were over $90 bucks for one. Since they are expensive we started taking all the info we can from the guys who use our public transponders, becuase I know one thing, I'm not gonna pay for those things!


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## Joe Novak (Apr 11, 2003)

I think the pt's are well worth the money,my lhs sells them for 80.00 and if you keep them in decent shape when your finished with them used ones are bringing like 65.00 so how could you go wrong,no more getting the wrong transponder or getting one that has a low battery!


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## erock1331 (Apr 1, 2002)

Is anyone else having problems with personals?
I have missed laps at 2 tracks now with mine.

And most of the hotshoes at my local track have gotten away from PT's for the same reason.

A buddy of mine was having the problem with running the same exact lap times throughout a 4 minute run. He swapped out everything, reciever, speedo, crystals etc and nothing helped. He unplugged the personal transponder and picked up 4 tenths a second.


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## chopperhead (Jul 4, 2004)

An excellent sales point for the PT's is practice time. In one respect a PT can make you faster if you are using it with the practice software. There is nothing that can make you faster in a quicker amount of time, than hearing your lap times during practice sessions.

I agree the cost is outrageous. I have complained to AMB more than once. In fact the last time I ordered I was told there was no longer a quantity discount. Perhaps they have started doing it again, but I know back at the first of the year the discount was not available.

I don't know what makes them tick. But I do know that if it was something easy to duplicate, someone would have done it by now. I remember a guy in the forums last year that was going to build a system, and make the plans available to all at no charge. After about a month he quietly went away. It never happened. I don't know how or what AMB is doing, but I wish I had a piece of the action!


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## jcovalracer (Jun 16, 2004)

chopperhead said:


> An excellent sales point for the PT's is practice time. In one respect a PT can make you faster if you are using it with the practice software. There is nothing that can make you faster in a quicker amount of time, than hearing your lap times during practice sessions.


What PRACTICE SOFTWARE are you refering to? I have yet to know a hobbyshop/race track that leave their AMB lap counting "ON" all the time for practice. I do have the personal transponder and use Orion's personal lap counter for practice.


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## DICKJ45 (Apr 25, 2003)

all of the track that i race at in northern NY still have the older version of AMB scoring system. so the PT's are useless to us. do they make a PT that is compatable with the older system ?


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## Slider (Dec 7, 2003)

DICKJ45 Not that im aware of.i haven't heard of any for the older systems. I stand corrected.Thanks hank.


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## hankster (Jan 1, 1998)

You can use personal transponders with older systems. The last number of the PT number is the transponder number on older systems.


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## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

If anyone is going to be ordering personal transponders, I'd like to get one. Hopefully we can get 10 folks? Hank - maybe Hobbyshopper could carry them? Or, at least, maybe we can send you the money once we get 10 folks and you could order them?

-Rich


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## Nil (Dec 8, 2001)

hankster said:


> You can use personal transponders with older systems. The last number of the PT number is the transponder number on older systems.


My undrestanding (let me know if I'm wrong) is that the issue is not the "system," so to speak, but the software. Only newer software recognizes the PTs (?).


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## OvalmanPA (Mar 21, 2000)

I never tried the AMBrc transponders with our old (DOS) Autoscore software and AMB20 decoder but I did try our old AMB20 transponders with the new AMBrc decoder and it would not work (analog vs digital). As I no longer have the Dos program installed I can't try the new transponders on it so I can't help you there. For the PTs to work correctly (get full benefit) you need a program such as Autoscore Win along with the AMBrc system.


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## hankster (Jan 1, 1998)

My mistake as I was thinking using both "newer" PT and rechargable transponders on the same system. According to the AMB FAQ:

Can Direct Powered and rechargeable transponders be used in the same race? 
Answer: Yes, both the rechargeable AMBrc transponder and the AMBrc Direct Powered transponder can be used at the same time. Both transponder types have a unique identification number that AMBrc software will read when they cross over the detection loop. Please note that AMB20 transponders are not compatible with the new digital AMBrc system. 

and

Can I use my new AMBrc transponder on the older AMB20 system? 
Answer: Unfortunately no. The newer AMBrc system is digital, and the older AMB20 system is analog. This means that the AMBrc transponders cannot be read by the AMB20 system. 

Also, AMB20 transponders cannot be picked up by the AMBrc system.


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## Joe Novak (Apr 11, 2003)

At my local track they will leave the system on during practice and print out lap times for you only on big races,it is a very nice feature for trying to tune your cars!


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## swtour (Oct 8, 2001)

...to most of YOU the delima is whether or not to purchase a SINGLE Personal Transponder.

I direct (More to the point OWN) the South-West Tour "R/C Oval Series"

I currently OWN 2 full scoring systems, so I always have a back-up. These are the older AMB8800 systems w/ AMB20 converters. They use the AMB20 transponders. These are getting very old and weak and were all used when I acquired them. I spent 2 years acquiring extra transponders, rebuild kits, chargers, converter boxes, etc. Not to mention have had to buy 4 new transponders in the last 3 years. (You think PERSONALS are expensive...check out the price on the rechargable AMB20 units... last quote was over $100.00 EACH shipped.)

I am in the process of acquiring all the components for the AMBrc system so I can switch to personals. This means a NEW Decoder box @ $1930+ , NEW Rechargable transponders (To have on hand for those who DON'T Have Personals)...at $96 bucks EACH, I'd love to have a NEW charger too so if I do the full rack of transponders and charger it's a WHOPPING $2298 bucks. 

Now to take full advantage of these NEW transponders you also need NEW scoring software...that's over $500.00.

That's nearly $5000.00 to lay out just to do what I am already doing...but have a bit better equipment. (Oh...Don't forget the NEW Computer too...can't update everything else and still use the old 286sx computer...)

Now, considering I only usually make $250 to $400 bucks per event...travel 2-3 hours to get to each event...plus all the expenses of running this series... I would probably qualify in the category of being INSANE~but guess what...I'm buying the NEW transponders this week...so if anyone needs an OLDER system...I know where there will be one for sale SOON~

www.southwesttour.com


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## chopperhead (Jul 4, 2004)

JCOVAL: We use Autoscore software to run the races, and a free trial version of Alycat for practice. The downside of the demo Alycat is that you can only enter 10 cars for practice. So some time is required to re-enter cars during the practice session. I know the use of the pratice software did increase attendance at practice though.

There is no easy solution to scoring. The system is expensive and like SWTour says, the profits are low. A guy has to be absolutely insane to purchase such an expensive system for the return on investment we get. But ya have to have it, and alot of us have bitten the bullet and bought it. I personally wouldn't even consider buying an older AMB20 unit unless it was dirt cheap. The system is now a dinosaur and eventually will not be supported by AMB at all.


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## SlipNSlide (Jul 6, 2004)

This hobby is expensive!

The local tracks I go to have started to charge for practice time with all of the money made going towards new AMB systems or track upgrades. One charges $5/hr the other $10 for the entire day.

The prices may be a little too high, but doing something like adding a $1 or $2 per weekly race for the AMB fund or charging a few bucks to practice with people knowing that the proceeds going to a new lap counting system could help offset the cost. People are willing to pay if they know it will benefit them in some way. Keeping a weekly running total of the AMB Fund helps to get people motivated. Most people are neither for you or against you but are willing to help when they know it benefits them. The other alternative is if you can get some manufacturer to donate some prizes that can be raffeled off. With all the money made going to a new AMB system. There is one track I visited that had a club. If you were a club member you paid $50/yr and practice was free. Non-members paid to practive at $10/day or $20 for a whole week. All that money went into the AMB/track fund. You can't make all the money all at once but most of it before you need a new system.

Even if the software was Open Source and free, the hardware and computer is not free. I am sure there are enough patents to keep other competitors out. Even if there was a smart Electrical/Electronic Engineer who could come up with a low cost design, someone would still have to build and support the system and whenever people are involved, that means money unless everyone plans on working for free.

When it comes time to race, there is no lack of participation -- when it comes to helping the R/C Community or local club/track that requires work and Perspiration-- the R/C community comes up short.


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## OvalmanPA (Mar 21, 2000)

swtour.........I feel your pain. We had planned to wait until after last winters carpet season to upgrade to the AMBrc system from the AMB20. That was until I got a letter from AMB saying prices were going up 10-15%. We ordered the new system on December 23rd. Decoder, 5 personals, 10 rechargables, new Autoscore Win, and a new laptop to run it all because a 90mhz with no CDROM drive don't cut it. Total of loan............$3000. I ended up selling the AMB20 decoder and 10 transponders for $800 to a fellow looking to start a track since AMB would give you next to nothing for the items on trade-in.


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## Dmon1975 (Mar 24, 2006)

*Costly race systems!*

I understand every thing that is being said in the forum. However, I have not heard if there are any other companies out there that make transponders, or the decoder and loop counter for less than AMB. These guys are outragous with there prices. We are trying to start weekly races here in Natchitoches, LA but the cost of these systems are crazy. The total amount for the whole deal comes to $5000 dollars. If there is any other company we can go through please let me know so I can go a different route than AMB. Thanks


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## SuperXRAY (Jul 10, 2002)

It's hard to fault AMB for not counting laps when using personals...it's more about the setup of the loop and how the wires are run more than anything. Loops should be 18" across, wires parrallel, close to the surface as possible, solid core wire, resistor installed, etc...

I do not agree with the cost, but it's hard to take AMBit's patent from them for the magnetic induction they use. It's not strictly magnetic induction, yet it's not strictly electric induction either. They patented the system many many years ago and control all avenues of racing...NASCAR, AMA, KART, IRL, etc. They charge the money because they can, there is no competitor product that works as well as AMB's. They went to personals not for convenience, but for money. A track might buy 20 transponders, but may hold an event with 100 people...you add the dollars up.  100 people = 100 personals, instead of 20 shared public transponders. The market is bigger, and I'd buy them for all my cars if I could afford it, but one is enough for me right now.

It sucks, but I don't see anyone out-engineering them? *sigh*


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## SuperXRAY (Jul 10, 2002)

Also, this talk about not having practice with transponders? Most software allows a practice mode, and I know our club does it on race day. You can use any transponder you wish from the public side or your personal.

In AutoScore, you simple click "Practice". After X number of minutes it will automatically print the laps off for people to see.


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## The Jet (Sep 25, 2001)

erock1331 said:


> Is anyone else having problems with personals?
> I have missed laps at 2 tracks now with mine.
> 
> And most of the hotshoes at my local track have gotten away from PT's for the same reason.
> ...


Eric, Thats interesting for sure...Did he use a receiver pack???


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## MRT (May 31, 2006)

*AMB20 compatible PT*



DICKJ45 said:


> all of the track that i race at in northern NY still have the older version of AMB scoring system. so the PT's are useless to us. do they make a PT that is compatable with the older system ?


Hi, we manufacture the T1-10 Personal Transponder for use with the AMB20 system.
The details are here: http://www.team-mrt.com (scroll down page)


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## MRT (May 31, 2006)

erock1331 said:


> Is anyone else having problems with personals?
> I have missed laps at 2 tracks now with mine.
> 
> And most of the hotshoes at my local track have gotten away from PT's for the same reason.
> ...


Is it still the same situation for you and others having problems with personals? If it's to do with power problems we manufacture the Bug Booster for use with AMBrc Personal Transponders (use the link above and scroll down page)


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