# Will they ever be re-released? Disney Pirates of the Carribean kits



## ThingMaker (Feb 22, 2014)

I know it's been talked about from time to time here already but was wondering if there has been any mention, hints, clues, even speculation from any manufacturers or Disney lately if these kits will ever be reproduced? I had them all as a kid and would love to have them all again. I only have one in the box now.


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## Mark McGovern (Apr 25, 1999)

TeeEm,

Years ago James Hood at Polar Lights told me that they were very interested in repopping the Pirates and Haunted House kits, but that the licensing procedure with Disney was very complex. This year at WonderFest he said that, due to poor sales of Wolverine and Superman, PL wasn't planning on releasing any more figure kits for a while. My feeling is that we won't see any Pirates or other figures from PL for some time.

But history also tells us that strange things can happen. At one time, PL also said they would *never* reissue the Guillotine, but eventually they did. So my advice would be to keep building and make room in your stash of unbuilt kits - you may need the extra space some day.


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## hal9001 (May 28, 2008)

Mark McGovern said:


> So my advice would be to keep building and make room in your stash of unbuilt kits - you may need the extra space some day.


What?  I could build for the next 600 yrs. and still not have enough room for yet _'another model'_! But, alas, we're a sick bunch that have the mind set, buy it _then_ worry where the hell it's gonna go!!! :freak: Right? Huh, right? It's not just me...._right_?

Carl-


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## Mark McGovern (Apr 25, 1999)

Yeah, we all have that problem. Or rather, the executors of our estates have that problem...


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## TAY666 (Jan 8, 2000)

I remember 2 or 3 years ago there was a glimmer of hope that R2 would be putting these out again. One of the pictures in one of their blog posts had a few of the kit boxes on the bottom of a stack of kits in the background.
But since then, nothing.

And has been stated, they are taking a break from figure kits for a while.


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## finaprint (Jan 29, 2006)

Not a problem, got the whole set in the late '80s, had to look for 'Dead Man's Raft' for a while........same with Haunted Mansion line (the organist was the hard one there), when I stumbled across them I had never seen them ever at a hobby store before, that was saying a lot as I lived at hobby stores back then.

The executor indeed, gonna have to be a model pricing expert there with more kits than I can count. Most from before the '80s.


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## ThingMaker (Feb 22, 2014)

I honestly think any company would be selling the idea short if they considered these mere "figure kits", something on par with the old Aurora knights or whatever turned them off to figure kits. The Pirates and Mansion kits would have _huge_ cross over appeal to Disney fans in general and fans of the rides, who are pretty ravenous about merch, which simply doesn't exist on this level. Mansion had a few poorly made figures no longer in production and Pirates really has nothing that's not movie related. I think these would do really well. But then I'm just the guy ready to hand over my money for them, what do I know....


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## Mark McGovern (Apr 25, 1999)

ThingMaker said:


> ...I think these would do really well....


I'm in complete agreement with you, TM. James was hot to do the Disney kits as well, but he doesn't run the show. And who knows what all went on with the Disney negotiations.


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## Zombie_61 (Apr 21, 2004)

ThingMaker said:


> ...The Pirates and Mansion kits would have _huge_ cross over appeal to Disney fans in general and fans of the rides, who are pretty ravenous about merch, which simply doesn't exist on this level...


The problem is that most Disneyphiles want collectibles that don't have to be built and painted. And as far as licensing goes, most companies put model kits at the lowest priority possible because it's always a gamble with regards to whether or not they'll sell well.



ThingMaker said:


> ...Mansion had a few poorly made figures no longer in production and Pirates really has nothing that's not movie related. I think these would do really well...


This is another problem with marketing these kits. The "Dead Man's Raft" kit loosely resembles the "Skeleton at the Helm" vignette seen in the Pirates of the Caribbean ride and the "Play it Again, Sam" kit resembles the Ballroom Organist in the Haunted Mansion ride (at the Disneyland California park, anyway), but otherwise the Pirates and Haunted Mansion model kits really don't represent anything specifically seen in either the rides _or_ the movies.

Also--let's be honest here--they're not sculpted particularly well, and the "Zap-Action" gimmick makes them rather toy-like. Don't get me wrong, I like these kits and I'm one of those modelers who would like to build them again (or build some of them for the first time), so I hope Round 2 does eventually re-release them. But I can understand them having several valid reasons not to.


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## hal9001 (May 28, 2008)

Yeah said:


> [/FONT]


LOL, and _*here*_, _*here!*_ Well put Mark! Let _them_ worry with it....

I've told my family to just melt my kits down into a Sarcophagus and there would be no need to buy a coffin! That way, I can take'em with me. 

*Seriously and sadly, I've been involved with selling kits for widows. Because family members/non modelers don't have a clue what to do with them. It really would be only fare to make some sort of arrangements for the survivors.*

A good modeling buddy jokes that when he dies his widow will have a garage sale and mark large boxes .50, small .25. I'm always asking him how he feels.... *He usually replies with something I can't say here!*

To stay on topic, yeah, I'd love to see them re-issue'em too. We could do a write in campaign and bug the crap out of them enough and they may do it just to get us off their backs?

Carl-


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

I still dont buy the Disney license notion either since several ex Disney kits have been reissued successfully with no mention of Disney. For example, Revell reissued the Disney Peter Pan pirate ship as a generic pirate ship, and Glencoe reissued the Disney TWA Moon Liner. 

Many kits that were licensed at one time have been reissued license free, too. For example, when Revell ended their agreement with Ed Roth in the 60s (they have a new agreememnt with his estate) kits like Brother Rat Fink were just reissued with new names like Sleazy Rider.


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## Mark McGovern (Apr 25, 1999)

hal9001 said:


> *...It really would be only fare to make some sort of arrangements for the survivors.*


My Dad was a builder of 1/32 scale WWII fighters. When he passed away, he left several unbuilt kits, parts, and research materials behind. I learned through a friend who worked at the VA hospital in Ann Arbor, MI that they used plastic model building as therapy for some of the patients. So I inventoried Dad's stuff, bundled it up, and donated it to the hospital. Not only did his old modeling items go to a good cause, I was able to write the value of it off as a charitable deduction.

The IPMS/USA also has a program for sending modeling supplies to our bases overseas. You find out more about that program on their web site (click the "Supporting the Troops" button). They won't accept paints, glue etc., that would be flammable.

Now back to topic -



djnick66 said:


> I still dont buy the Disney license notion either since several ex Disney kits have been reissued successfully with no mention of Disney.


I have no answer to that, deej, all I know is what Mr. Hood told me. I'd sure like to see all the Pirates and Haunted House kits come back as well. And, to answer Zombie's concern about model kit profitability, I don't think it would be Disney that would take a loss if the kits didn't sell - it would be Round 2. Which takes us back to why we're not going to see these models get reissued any time soon.


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## finaprint (Jan 29, 2006)

I agree, if anybody comes out rich out of that it would be Disney, they are to me one of the greediest and most controlling companies out there. In my view the issue is dead because of them and their demands.


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

People bitch about Disney but there is more Disney licensed stuff everywhere than anything else. Harley and NASCAR are pretty bad but then bubbas will pay for crap like NASCAR french fries.


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

djnick66 said:


> I still dont buy the Disney license notion either since several ex Disney kits have been reissued successfully with no mention of Disney. For example, Revell reissued the Disney Peter Pan pirate ship as a generic pirate ship, and Glencoe reissued the Disney TWA Moon Liner.
> 
> Many kits that were licensed at one time have been reissued license free, too. For example, when Revell ended their agreement with Ed Roth in the 60s (they have a new agreememnt with his estate) kits like Brother Rat Fink were just reissued with new names like Sleazy Rider.








This is the thing. Nobody cares whether they're called POTC or not. They could easily sell them as Caribbean Pirates or even just Pirates. They probably wouldn't sell in huge numbers but they might make a bit of a profit (there again they might sell ok seeing as many people want to build the kits they had as kids)

I know R2 have said they're not doing any more figure kits but the moulds for these already exist so it's not as if they have to tool up new moulds.


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## spock62 (Aug 13, 2003)

I asked Jamie about this subject a couple of days ago, on the R2 Collector Blog. He said _"We’ve looked into it, but releasing them is a tricky (in some ways difficult) matter on several levels."_.

Someone else asked about releasing other Disney kits (i.e. The Black Hole), to which Jamie's response was _"Yeah, we would run them all *if* we could."_.

So, for the time being, don't hold your breath waiting for reissues of these kits!


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## finaprint (Jan 29, 2006)

I'd flood the market too if I could sell overpriced product to those who apparently don't perceive it. At our home we now pretty much stay clear of anything Disney, the price paid is too much there. Too many other things with much more value to the buck.


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## TAY666 (Jan 8, 2000)

djnick66 said:


> I still dont buy the Disney license notion either since several ex Disney kits have been reissued successfully with no mention of Disney. For example, Revell reissued the Disney Peter Pan pirate ship as a generic pirate ship, and Glencoe reissued the Disney TWA Moon Liner.


That may be true. But would you bet your company on that belief?
Even if it were legally correct, you'd still loose your butt paying lawyers to prove it.

And after the Bellringer, we all know how much Tom is willing to risk things with Disney.


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## TAY666 (Jan 8, 2000)

Mark McGovern said:


> Yeah, we all have that problem. Or rather, the executors of our estates have that problem...


Not me 
My daughter wants my collection.
And has also agreed to keep funding my website so it will continue on after me.
Any kits she actually doesn't want, she is supposed to sell, and split the money with her brother.


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## Cro-Magnon Man (Jun 11, 2001)

TAY666 said:


> after the Bellringer, we all know how much Tom is willing to risk things with Disney.



Or with Toho and the Gocart! but djnick's right - Glencoe has released quite a few of the Disney Man In Space kits originally by Strombecker, and the Zorro reissue of 2010 - that appeared without the Disney logo on the box art. It probably says Disney somewhere and probably on the Instructions as well, but not on the box art.


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## TAY666 (Jan 8, 2000)

Cro-Magnon Man said:


> Or with Toho and the Gocart!


Actually, the only reason he yanked the Gocart was to work the licensing deal to reissue the 3 Aurora kits, and the original PL Godzilla.
The Gocart was actually out for quite a while before that. Toho didn't like it, but couldn't do anything about it because it was a parody.


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

If all the Disney references are erased surely there wouldn't need to be any licence needed from Disney? Again they could call them just Pirates and Disney wouldn't be able to do a damn thing.


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## Cro-Magnon Man (Jun 11, 2001)

SUNGOD said:


> If all the Disney references are erased surely there wouldn't need to be any licence needed from Disney? Again they could call them just Pirates and Disney wouldn't be able to do a damn thing.


I don't think copyright theft is that simple! Companies all over the world follow that policy, thinking that if they remove or alter the original manufacturer's name they'll get away with it. But the original manufacturers $pend a lot of effort chasing them down and having their owner$hip of the original recogni$ed in the courts.


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

Cro-Magnon Man said:


> I don't think copyright theft is that simple! Companies all over the world follow that policy, thinking that if they remove or alter the original manufacturer's name they'll get away with it. But the original manufacturers a lot of effort chasing them down and having their owner of the original recogni in the courts.








But don't R2 own the original moulds? Surely all they have to do is get rid of any Disney and POTC references and just sell them as pirates. Surely there's nothing Disney could do as those sculpts could be pirates from anything or anywhere.


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## BobbysMonsterModels (Mar 8, 2014)

I'd love to see these old kits again. I have only built one from each franchise, and I had fun building them. These are nostalgia models aimed at the baby boomers who make up the bulk of plastic model building in this day and age, so like the old Aurora monsters, I would think they'd sell fairly well. There are so many model kits that still come out and sell like duds nowadays. The new Wolverine and Superman….that kinda merch is a dime a dozen, and it sure didn't appeal to me or land in my "to do" pile. As someone mentioned above, if the Haunted Mansion and POTC lines didn't sell well, do you really think it would hurt Disney? I think not. I don't think this is a Disney issue at all. It's a small drop in the big bucket for them. The molds still exist, so there'd be almost zero tooling cost. But yeah, if it doesn't sell well, the manufacturer loses some money. Stuff happens! I'm thinking what it boils down to more than anything is if the "big guy" at the model company has any interest in seeing this line produced again…if he has a passion for it. For the life of me, I can't see why Moebius is releasing seven 1960's Batman models, but obviously some higher up at that company is a major fan of that franchise (probably loved it as a little boy), and wants to see these kits produced. To me the new Batman line just seems like a series of shelf warmers, but I could be wrong. It's a huge gamble. And a Space Ghost spaceship? In my 51 years, I've never seen the cartoon ever. I'll pass on that too. Honestly, most figure kits in hobby shops nowadays, in this crappy economy, are shelf warmers, period. Plastic models just are not selling well in hobby shops anymore….well, maybe cars and airplanes are doing better. So there are lots of risks being taken in what's hot and what's not, but usually in model building, nostalgia trumps all and does well. I think the HM and POTC lines would do well, but maybe that's just cause I want them, LOL. The reality: I could care less what's released anymore….I have a huge pile of models that I might never get through in my lifetime.


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## Rob P. (Jan 26, 2004)

Pirate Skeletons, whats not to like?? I'm alot like Bobby in my modeling interests, super hero and static spaceship models ( I like flying rockets) have a low factor of ending up in my stash, unless it has a kit bash potential for monsters. Pirate skeletons such as the POTC line would end up in my stash without batting an eye. That being said if they don't ever come out, I just save some money cause I have plenty to build. It would probably be smart for whoever owns the molds to test the waters and run one or two. See what numbers of manufacture could be profitable. If Monarch can run a couple thousand new molded kits and pay their bills surely a bigger company could do as well? with existing molds?

Rob


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## xsavoie (Jun 29, 1999)

Figures do not sell?It seems that Revell has reissued the old Aurora figure kits many times,therefore the nature of the problem must be elsewhere.Reissuing the Aurora kits might not always be the best idea,depending on the subject and precision of the figures themselves.So it seems that such new kits as Superman breaking his chains has not been well received due mainly to the less than satisfactory head sculpt,or so I heard.If well done,such figures as Electro,the Rhino,etc from Spiderman's comic books should sell well if well done in 1/8th scale.New figures that are as entertaining as those are needed.


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## ThingMaker (Feb 22, 2014)

I wonder, where did this conclusion come from that figure kits don't sell and, more importantly, what kits were they referring to? Which kits did so badly that it killed any interest for anything even remotely in the same world (like not a tank, or plane, or car)?

As was said the old Aurora monster kits have been in almost continual production for many years and always seem to sell. As have dinosaurs. The Pirates and Haunted Mansion kits would have similar appeal to monster collectors _plus_ interest from hobby minded Disney people _plus_ nostalgia buffs who had the kits as kids. I really think these would do well. Personally I always though superhero kits were boring. I can see how some figure kits wouldn't have any significant customer base in today's world, but I certainly wouldn't include the Pirates and Mansion kits among them.


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

I wonder if it's just certain figure kits that don't sell as Monarch seem to sell their figure kits ok. I also wonder if R2 expected too much too soon and we all know what these bigger corporations can be like. If they don't sell things in the hundreds of thousands they won't bother.

Not to mention people were saying the Superman sculpt had soft detail even though Wolverine was a great sculpt. Plus Moebius are bringing out new Batman styrene kits so some figure kits must sell.


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## BobbysMonsterModels (Mar 8, 2014)

I also am into flying Rc planes, so I stop in the local Hobbytown alot. One of the things I have noticed in my neck of the woods is that the figure kits that were on that shelf 2 years back, for the most part, are still sitting on the shelves. Back in the spring, this same Hobbytown had a model contest that I was thinking of entering (but bowed out because they wanted me to leave my models with them….no thanks, don't want them broken)….anyway, I asked the store manager what kinds of kits usually enter the contest and he told me it was almost always cars and trucks - rarely any figure kits at all (another reason not to enter the contest…no competition). At other visits to the store I asked when they would be getting some new figure kits in since the same ones are always sitting on the shelves (Barnabas Collins, Munsters House, Spiderman, Green Goblin, Guillotine, Frankenstein w/Bride). I was told they won't bring new figure kit stock in til the other merch sells first. Well, the stuff just isn't selling, so it's been quite awhile since anything new hit the shelves. Unfortunately, that's the way it is. I was also told the bulk of the plastic models he sells are cars (which they stock on packed shelves going down the side of one aisle - about 25 feet worth - tons of cars).


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## BobbysMonsterModels (Mar 8, 2014)

SUNGOD said:


> ...Monarch seem to sell their figure kits ok.


But that's all they sell are figure kits (not complaining here at all). So there's nothing to compare to. If Monarch was selling cars, they might be outselling the figure kits. I doubt if Scott at Monarch has the same pressure of putting out massive quantities as a big corporation would (Numbers, numbers, numbers!!!). Good thing we have Monarch though, because apparently not many are going in the monster model direction right now…styrene that is.


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## finaprint (Jan 29, 2006)

Face it guys regardless of how much you embrace figure stuff it's a niche market and growing less and less relevant as it gets older. Harder to paint for the kids and they know it. Too much time 'wasted' doing it rather than rolling up megascores on the video games. The bigger the model company the more the bankers on the board demand instant big sales and not willing to wait for slow sellers to mature. The legal liability issues are terrifying to them, simply taking all names off is often not enough, the copyright holder is bound to protect the very image as well. 

The average price of new stuff in figures or other non-plane/armor/car seems to be around $30-$40 now and up from the Polar lights recast days of $20 max for most. As they inch steadily higher you will see less and less sales as the cash strapped American public falls away even more from model kits. They are getting too high and only for the truly dedicated now. I now have to sort through and let some remain unbought because of that. Most now also bought in like Amazon specials rather than pay the OTC prices. Simply too high now, no room for them on $8/hr. job and 25 hrs./wk so no new collectors are coming after us.


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## Zombie_61 (Apr 21, 2004)

ThingMaker said:


> I wonder, where did this conclusion come from that figure kits don't sell and, more importantly, what kits were they referring to? Which kits did so badly that it killed any interest for anything even remotely in the same world (like not a tank, or plane, or car)?


I have no idea how true it is, but I've read the sales of Round 2's Wolverine and Superman kits were far below their expectations, and that made them re-think whether figure kits were worth the investment risk.


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## TAY666 (Jan 8, 2000)

Zombie_61 said:


> I have no idea how true it is, but I've read the sales of Round 2's Wolverine and Superman kits were far below their expectations, and that made them re-think whether figure kits were worth the investment risk.


Exactly.
Round 2 just spent a bunch of cash purchasing the Lindburg tooling last year.
I am sure that put them in a bit of a cash crunch. Then the 2 new figures they did produce, sold poorly. Meanwhile, I am sure their space kits are selling just fine.
So, they canceled all the other *new* figure kits they had in the pipeline and said that they have no plans to release *new* figure kits in the near future as they don't sell.
Which means, they don't sell well enough compared to other new kits they produce.
Round 2 is a rather large company, with certain expenses they have to meet.
They need to have a certain amount of sales to justify producing certain types of subjects.
Doesn't mean there is no money in figures. It there wasn't then Moebius and Monarch would quit making them as well. But they are smaller, and don't have as many investors that they have to keep happy. So they can make it work.

Just like the Dr J and Giant Frankie wouldn't work for Polar Lights, but Frank did just fine with them at Moebius. And none of these are feasible for a company like Revell.
Sure, Revell will pop out reissues ever now and then. They don't have any upfront costs other than licensing, which is already in place. When was the last time Revell did a new figure kit?

I am sure R2 will pop out some figure kit reissues somewhere in the near future.
Just to get back into the market a bit. If those do well enough, they will consider doing new figures again. Mainly because Tom Lowe wants to do them. But the financial numbers have to work, or the investors won't go for it. He might run the company, but he didn't buy all this stuff with his own money. So he has people he has to answer to as well.


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## ThingMaker (Feb 22, 2014)

Sorry for the rant, and I'm generalizing here... but ---- I'd assume that newer figure kits don't sell that well because kids aren't much into models and the current superhero movies (that most kits are based on) simply suck and really only appeal to kids (and comic book audiences are likely not what they used to be when Superman ruled). The adult modeller, which seems to be a good portion of the model building market, would likely prefer something that appeals to them rather than their children- either through nostalgia or subject matter. Also, how many Munsters kits do we need? How many Frankenstein, Dracula or Creature kits do we need? It seems they are almost over-saturating with new kits (that frankly aren't very well sculpted in my opinion, I LOVE the Creature but haven't seen a good kit yet) whose subjects have already been done.

And then when people don't buy them the companies think "oh no figure kits sell". No, just figure kits people don't want don't sell. Kits that have been out of production for 40+ years and sell for $400 on eBay and have three way cross over appeal to Disneyites, nostalgia buffs and horror fans _might_ do a bit better. Ah well... rant over.


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

ThingMaker said:


> Sorry for the rant, and I'm generalizing here... but ---- I'd assume that newer figure kits don't sell that well because kids aren't much into models and the current superhero movies (that most kits are based on) simply suck and really only appeal to kids (and comic book audiences are likely not what they used to be when Superman ruled). The adult modeller, which seems to be a good portion of the model building market, would likely prefer something that appeals to them rather than their children- either through nostalgia or subject matter. Also, how many Munsters kits do we need? How many Frankenstein, Dracula or Creature kits do we need? It seems they are almost over-saturating with new kits (that frankly aren't very well sculpted in my opinion, I LOVE the Creature but haven't seen a good kit yet) whose subjects have already been done.
> 
> And then when people don't buy them the companies think "oh no figure kits sell". No, just figure kits people don't want don't sell. Kits that have been out of production for 40+ years and sell for $400 on eBay and have three way cross over appeal to Disneyites, nostalgia buffs and horror fans _might_ do a bit better. Ah well... rant over.









The new Munsters kits from Moebius look really well sculpted to me but I get the impression with some Moebius kits that they're making the kits they wanted as kids but never had. As for the Creature well it was nice to see the MOM Creature reissued but I wasn't fussed on the new Creature from Moebius. 

To me it wasn't very well sculpted and even though CreatureKid can sculpt I think perhaps he's not in the same league (at the moment anyway) as Jeff Yagher. I think Yagher should have done it.


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## finaprint (Jan 29, 2006)

In my view Round 2 best proceed with caution on the Lindberg stuff, it was brought out overpriced when J. Lloyd did it and continues being so. Some of the stuff is not that bad but most is highly inaccurate and if spending that kind of money one will generally want a better quality kit than many of those were. A few are drop dead overpriced like the original fifty cent German WWII stuff, they lumped them in with way more expensive bigger kits to then attempt to charge the same price, a bigtime mistake. I bought several J. Lloyd issue kits when they first came out in re-release and shortly after the prices went up in some cases 40% and that stopped me getting any more of them. Before that they were not priced badly at all. Some are so inaccurate better to classify them as toys and priced like twice as much as they should be. The ones with very few parts are lumped in with the high part count ones and not the same value for the buck at all. Buyer beware I say...............I said back then J. Lloyd would dump them quick when they wouldn't turn over at those prices and same here but Round 2 is releasing even more of them. It could definitely bite them. If there's one you want my advice would be to get it while it's here, thinking that won't last long. The kits are overall simply not good enough at those prices. Some are though, you have to know your Lindberg.


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