# Seaview window speculation



## trekkist (Oct 31, 2002)

This pertains to Moebius' incredible models ONLY if one cares to apply HUGE modifications. 

Seaview's bservation nose interior set as seen in the film and the series' pre-refit configuration had two or four windows, depending on how one counts them. Each transparent area was divided in half by its own centerline support and girder. Though the observation room set changed for TV, and changed again when the sub came to have four windows in all, this arrangement of set windows did not.

By implication, these "four" windows represented the lowermost four of the 8-windowed movie Seaview (and all of the four-windowed sub's). But the model's exterior contradicts this in 2 ways. First, each exterior window is separated from the next by far more than (the inside's) thin support/girder. Second, each outside window is roughly the proportion of one "double" inside window.

"So what? Just Allen-verse inconsistency."

Yes, but…compare Frederick Barr's interior blueprints with those of an 8-windowed Seaview, and one finds that the set's TWO[/four] windows are nearly identical in width to the innermost pair of exterior windows.

Result: not only did the 8 windowed Seaview have a "balcony" level observation gallery above that seen on screen. It ALSO had a pair of one-window viewing rooms to either side of the on-screen-depicted gallery.


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## scotpens (Sep 6, 2003)

Of course, the RL reason for the wide center divider between the two pairs of windows was that two 16mm projectors were used for the rear-projected action seen "through" the windows.

Really, when it comes to fictional movie and TV vehicles, any attempt to reconcile or retcon inconsistencies in what we see on screen is as good as any other. It's all fanwanking. And I mean that in the most positive way possible. :thumbsup:


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

The real reason for the way the windows look goes with the original design for the Seaview in the drawing I attached. This is what it looked like when set construction began, it was soon changed but the expensive set was not rebuilt. There was no need as the set represented the center two windows, with interior divider girders, of the original design and therefore passed for the now four lower windows of the final design. When the second season began, the four lower windows on the miniatures were raised slightly and became 2 windows, each with an interior dividing girder to more closely match the original movie set. This is best seen on the 8 foot underwater model. The proportions were never quite right, but there you have the reason.


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

I also just finished my two, great kits!!!!


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## trekkist (Oct 31, 2002)

I'd forgotten the 16mm format issue, but am aware of the diminution from 12 windows, which is of course the REAL real reason.

In-universe, however, Thermians fanwank. No offense is meant, RSN, to actual production-historical researchers such as yourself (NO sarcasm intended).


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

None taken.


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

Looking at my two models and taking into account the fictional depiction, it would seem the refit in the second season is actually an all new Seaview that is a bit smaller then the original, based on window size of the model compared to the set proportions. Same thing happened, in reverse when the Next Generation threw out Andrew Probert's dimensions for the Enterprise for the firsts season when they added the Ten Forward lounge in season 2. The windows on the set were more then double what the models scale was, thereby doubling the overall size of the Enterprise. This is not unique to Irwin Allen.


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

My biggest issue was not the windows but the repositioning of the control room to the front of the ship but they still went up it's ladder up to the sail.


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

The ladder never would have gone to the sail, no matter which version, the control room has always been behind the observation room. Watch the movie, Michael Ansara is at the top of the spiral stairs and is looking through a the hatch, into the control room and also looking directly down, into the observation room.


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## BWolfe (Sep 24, 2013)

RSN said:


> Looking at my two models and taking into account the fictional depiction, it would seem the refit in the second season is actually an all new Seaview that is a bit smaller then the original, based on window size of the model compared to the set proportions. Same thing happened, in reverse when the Next Generation threw out Andrew Probert's dimensions for the Enterprise for the firsts season when they added the Ten Forward lounge in season 2. The windows on the set were more then double what the models scale was, thereby doubling the overall size of the Enterprise. This is not unique to Irwin Allen.


In my mind the first season episode "Submarine Sunk Here" should have been the final episode of the first season. The destruction of the original Seaview would have made it a little easier to accept the changes to the sub between first and second seasons.


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

BWolfe said:


> In my mind the first season episode "Submarine Sunk Here" should have been the final episode of the first season. The destruction of the original Seaview would have made it a little easier to accept the changes to the sub between first and second seasons.


Couldn't agree more on that one!!


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

IIRC when we first meet Crane he is trying to sneak on board as a test of security- there is a fight above decks on the sail and this fight continued straight down the ladder into the control room- no horizontal tunnel connecting the two different locations on the ship...

Of course to enjoy the show you have bigger things to wrap your head around so physical inconsistencies are minor...


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