# OK, school me on blue tip drag arm



## Marty (Oct 20, 1999)

Is this the blue tip AFX drag armature people are using?










Does it have to ohm out to any particular rating?

Marty
Marysville, OH


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## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

yes that is the famous blue tip/green wire drag arm. I think it ohms around 7. still not as low as a mean green though.


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## clydeomite (May 5, 2004)

Howdy:
Also of note on this arm is it is wound reverse ( I think ) of conventional 3 gear arms as it spins the opposite direction. Correct me if I am wrong. I have never unwound one so it is only a guess. 
Clyde-0-Mite


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## CTSV OWNER (Dec 27, 2009)

That should be a Non Magnatraction 4 gear judging by the blue arm & wide rear tires. The correct pickup shoes should have a step in them as well. 

Dave


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

clydeomite said:


> Howdy:
> Also of note on this arm is it is wound reverse ( I think ) of conventional 3 gear arms as it spins the opposite direction. Correct me if I am wrong. I have never unwound one so it is only a guess.
> Clyde-0-Mite


I'm thinking it is wound the same way as it spins CCW in any three gear pancake application. 

The extra gear in the four gear plate makes the wheels turn opposite, so the factory orientation of the magnets is reversed to compensate. So while the coils are wound in the same direction as any other T-jet or AFX armature the rotation in the four gear chassis is CW, but only because the magnets are flipped around. 

I always liked the AFX drag arm. Very reliable bolt in performance for a big tired nine tooth set up. Just watch out for whacky off center comm plates and ones with discolored windings, just like any other AFX arm.

Smooth out yer drive train, beef up the mags, but dont wind the comm pressure up too tight or you'll be skittering. They like clean juice so a power upgrade can really wake them up. I road race mine at 24v with properly adjusted pick up tension. They've always been a hoot.


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## Joe65SkylarkGS (Feb 15, 2010)

By far the best arm Aurora put out. :hat:

They are fetching stupid money lately though. They are great runners. Especially if you can find any NOS. I clean em up then put a set of the new 15 percent silver brushes, polish the comm's and oil em up and watch them fly down the strip!!! I am putting these chassis in everything lately!!!!! I can't stop!!! :freak:


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## clydeomite (May 5, 2004)

Mornin :
Hmmm so what are they bringing? I got a fresh one in the package? I always prefered the mean green arm over these myself.
Clyde-0-Mite


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## waltgpierce (Jul 9, 2005)

A little bit of information on the "drag" arm here:

http://slotmonsters.com/slot-car-afx-magna-traction-pancake-motor-armatures.ashx


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## clydeomite (May 5, 2004)

Thankx Walt!
Clyde-0-Mite


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## Joe65SkylarkGS (Feb 15, 2010)

waltgpierce said:


> A little bit of information on the "drag" arm here:
> 
> http://slotmonsters.com/slot-car-afx-magna-traction-pancake-motor-armatures.ashx




EditSpecialty Cars (Drag Arm)
OHM Range: 7.0 - 7.5
Copper or Green Wire with Blue Tips

These are found in the AFX Specialty cars like Dragsters and Funny Cars. These cars had longer chassis's that had a total of 4 gears and were usually pretty heavy.

Heavier gauge wire was used, so this arm tends to run hot. Stronger magnets and chassis or body cooling considerations are a must if used for Enduro Road Racing. This arm can typically used in heavy customs or performance projects using weights or weight pans. A popular application is in HO Drag Racing, since the main characteristic is Low End Torque.

When Road Racing this arm will launch your car from a dead stop, but others will soon be passing you due to its lack of top speed. You might consider it for Road Racing when on a very technical (lots of turns) track since it can really barrel out of a turn. You should realize that the A|FX Specialty chassis this arm was found in came with large diameter wheels, with the Dragster tires having an O.D. of .500 (half an inch), so even though this arm typically isn't capable of high RPM, the taller tire provided a higher top end speed!. If you are going to Road Race this arm, check our gearing discussion and consider going to a taller gearing profile to compensate for its lack of all-out RPM.


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## Joe65SkylarkGS (Feb 15, 2010)

Here is the Quad write up:


EditSuper II Quadralam
OHM Range: 4.0 - 4.5
Copper Wire with Black Tips

This arm is probably the most sought after Aurora factory arm. It is VERY fast (68,000 RPM @ 15v) and is unique as compared to the other available armatures, netting excellent top speeds while still providing low-end torque. This arm gets its name due to the fact that it has 4 laminates (lams) while others from Aurora offered 2 or even 1 lam.

Initially available in the early 1970's on the ill-fated and under-rated AFX Super II™ car, which also came with a special-edition Aurora Black Chassis out-fitted with Brush Cups, Chassis Weights, a Unique Armature Gearplate, Braided Shoes and Special Guide Pin straight from the factory.

The Armature as Aurora produced it also sported a 'double-wire wind', special advance curve and had a special silver-plated commutator plate; and all for $12-$13 at the time! No longer in available as NOS, they still pop-up used on eBay every once in awhile with complete cars going for around $200-$400.

A variant of this Armature was used in the XLerator cars. Precision replicas of this Armature are available via AG&G Hobby.

The QuadraLam, built for the long straights!

On a side note, Jim Sgrig can build a more precise and faster Quad for a very reasonable price.

Ask sidejobjohnny, he just got one. It is a screamer!!! I told Jim to make me one!!!


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## tjetsgrig (Nov 1, 2009)

Thanks Joe!! Yes, I build quads!

On the blue drag arm......not a fan! They run way to hot, they are notoriously stupid out of balance ( as in the old vibrating football game out of balance because the shafts are off center ), and as Bill stated, the comms are always cockeyed, not to mention the loose nature of the windings!! I'll take a red tip green wire motor, or the green ones anyday over the blue tip. But then again, what do I need them for, I'll make my own?????? :tongue:


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## Marty (Oct 20, 1999)

tjetsgrig said:


> Thanks Joe!! Yes, I build quads!
> 
> On the blue drag arm......not a fan! They run way to hot, they are notoriously stupid out of balance ( as in the old vibrating football game out of balance because the shafts are off center ), and as Bill stated, the comms are always cockeyed, not to mention the loose nature of the windings!! I'll take a red tip green wire motor, or the green ones anyday over the blue tip. But then again, what do I need them for, I'll make my own?????? :tongue:


If they are so out of balance, cockeyed, and loose, why are they so popular?

Marty


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## tjetsgrig (Nov 1, 2009)

Marty said:


> If they are so out of balance, cockeyed, and loose, why are they so popular?
> 
> Marty


Don't know.....I never got it. What you need to understand is, I have a very intimate relationship with Aurora pancake motors and chassis'. Someone decided they were great......and people followed??  You may hit on one occasionally as I have in the past, but I can get a red/green, green/green to toast a blue tip any day. I've got a PILE of them in my parts bins, sometimes there just isn't enough space available for epoxy to balance these things! Honestly Marty, I just don't get it......


Jim Sgrig


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## Joe65SkylarkGS (Feb 15, 2010)

They just look good lol!! :freak: :freak:

Jim how is my quad coming along?? :wave:


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

*Armature roulette*

Jim, Thats easy to 'splain...mostly hyperbole based on the ones that run well.

AND...

Any hard core AFX junkie knows the second generation arms arent really comparable to the first generation plums as a whole. The Blue Drags are right down the fareway with all the bretheren of the later era. Cockeyed handbuzzers with windings that stretch like flubber.

For that reason the early units are coveted and are usually sifted out of parts lots before you pay the exhorbitant ante to maybe get lucky...and then yer stuck with all the other trash in the lot if ya do.

The blue Drag arm can be a one shot wonder, most are mediocre, and more than their fare share make dandy cigarette lighters. IMHO it's a gamble that people are willing to take; not realizing that they could just send you less money on a guaranteed winning spinner, than they would spend thrashing around trying to find the king of the Blues...see? Perhaps a well kept secret and to OUR advantage because the more yer stuff is in demand the longer our turn around time is ....LOLOLOLOL

Because you have the tenacity and developed the skills to impose your will on dead slugs thus creating tiny miracles; you have also removed yourself from the game we non-winders play that I call "armature roulette".

As surely as you ask why would someone would chase the Blues, I wince in pain when someone lets out that they are going to fix a t-jet screw post with super glue. Why the hell would ya do that? Might as well use concrete! 

It's a common thread all through the hobby. Resistance is what drives the hobby....electrically....and resistance is what holds the hobbists back...as in the resistance to common knowledge because of an assumed value assigned to crap. The guaranteed spinner vs the pig in the poke armature is not unlike the VERY common "get the right controller dance" we do with people...or the shut up and "get the power upgrade arguement". 

Penny wise and pound foolish such as we are. They'll keep twitching and flicking their cars off the track with gumball set controllers....or they'll eventually take the plunge and become a convert. They'll be stumbling and grumbling with ALL the related power issues until they finally hook up clean juice and see the light.

The idea that: in a market where folks insistently waste their money, time and effort battling conventional wisdoms ... when you can have a Parma econo 90 delivered to yer door for 25 bux and then actually run a jlto.... OR... that the new afforadble AFX power brick will keep lil Johnny's car from flying of the track when papa deslots... 

... the game of armature roulette and the resistance to guaranteed spinners doesnt seem all that far fetched.

PS: This is pure conjecture with tongue firmly in cheek!


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## tjetsgrig (Nov 1, 2009)

Jeez Bill, you are a friggin' riot man!!! But, I think you are spot on!! Couldn't have said it any better!

JS


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## Boosted-Z71 (Nov 26, 2007)

Armature Roulette, I love it, 

If I were doing this and did not want to attempt to wind my own I would send Tjetsgrig a PM, tell him how you want to run the car & ask what it will cost for him to custom wind you an arm. Results will be that the car will fly, should not turn into a lighter & you will be a happy camper right from the start & more than likely much cheaper than the blue drag arm that you can win in a bidding war on E-bay. I know I was very happy with the arm he wound for me, its a real screamer.

I on the other enjoy the pain of learning to wind, and count my success in steps, 1 will it fit under the top plate & rotate, 2 do I have to add less than 1lb to balance it 3 does it run an not smoke, 4 can I make 30 or so laps without smoke, 5 is it sorta fast, 6 is it faster than a completely stock T-jet, and so on. I am slowly working my way up the scale 

Boosted


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## tjetsgrig (Nov 1, 2009)

Thanks Boost!!!
You are a true gentleman! I'm glad you're happy with your motor.......:thumbsup:


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## Joe65SkylarkGS (Feb 15, 2010)

So what is the best available arm that was in production? The mean greens or the red tip with gold? Or am I missing it. :drunk:


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## tjetsgrig (Nov 1, 2009)

Joe65SkylarkGS said:


> So what is the best available arm that was in production? The mean greens or the red tip with gold? Or am I missing it. :drunk:


Joe, for a drop in upgrade, I prefer the TuffOnes/WildOnes red tip green wire, or the AFX green/green.


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## Boosted-Z71 (Nov 26, 2007)

From my experience a mean green (AFX Green/Green) poly mags, and JB brushes, is a really nice combo that is hard to beat for the cost. You can almost slap them together anyway shape or form & they will run great, of course the more you tweak the better it gets. Get one that is balanced very well & the com plate is straight, you will have yourself a real screamer & they like speed gears, you will have all the torque you need, even on good silicones or sili-foams.

Jim I just tell it like it is, you build a great arm!

Boosted


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## Joe65SkylarkGS (Feb 15, 2010)

tjetsgrig said:


> Joe, for a drop in upgrade, I prefer the TuffOnes/WildOnes red tip green wire, or the AFX green/green.




Ahh. So is 5 bux good for the green greens? And green is no good your saying??

And how is that quad coming bub? :dude:


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