# Tyco 440 Pickup Shoes



## bemoore (Dec 23, 2008)

I just found out that the 440/440X2 pickup shoes have been discontinued. Is there a stock of them out there somewhere? I've found the "ski" shoes, but I have problems getting those things to work.


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## neorules (Oct 20, 2006)

Try Lucky Bobs.


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## Ralphthe3rd (Feb 24, 2011)

Don't Worry, there are Billions of 440 shoes out there, both OEM and aftermarket, so there will NEVER be shortage. Plus the fact that Mattel sells HPx2 chassis alone, for almost the price of a pair of shoes- lol.


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## Pomfish (Oct 25, 2003)

How many you need?
I have some.
Thanks,
Keith


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## partspig (Mar 12, 2003)

I hate to tell you this Ralph, but once Mattel bought out Tyco, the bulk parts went poof. I used to sell parts for slots, but I can no longer find anyone that has 440X-2 step shoes in quantity. And another point is that I used to sell them for a buck a pair. I think that you will find that, if you can find them, they will be much more expensive than that. pig


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## SCJ (Jul 15, 1999)

partspig said:


> I hate to tell you this Ralph, but once Mattel bought out Tyco, the bulk parts went poof. I used to sell parts for slots, but I can no longer find anyone that has 440X-2 step shoes in quantity. And another point is that I used to sell them for a buck a pair. I think that you will find that, if you can find them, they will be much more expensive than that. pig


:freak: What, okay that’s just unacceptable…….Parts pig w/ out parts? You know you’re going to have to change your name!?!

REH sales bulk bags of tyco/mattel shoes, 100pr to a bag….LMK if you need the part number.


-------------------------
www.SlotCarJohnnies.com


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## Ralphthe3rd (Feb 24, 2011)

*Ummmm....shop around*



partspig said:


> I hate to tell you this Ralph, but once Mattel bought out Tyco, the bulk parts went poof. I used to sell parts for slots, but I can no longer find anyone that has 440X-2 step shoes in quantity. And another point is that I used to sell them for a buck a pair. I think that you will find that, if you can find them, they will be much more expensive than that. pig


Oh Dennis, I'm sorry, but I'm with Johnnie- and have to disagree.... Cuz I know that Mattel may have stopped their shoe sales, but there are probably 100 SlotCar Shops/Re-salers/Business across the nation(including a few in Canada), that still have Huge inventories of Tyco/Mattel style 440 step shoes. FYI- I bought a bulk lot a few months ago and got all I wanted for a very good price.


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## Ralphthe3rd (Feb 24, 2011)

*shop around*

PS- although I'm NOT advocating any particular business, as an example, check out the slotcarcentral site and search "440 Shoes". Although they aren't $1 a pair, he's selling the repops at a pretty decent price. Also take note, that Wizzard and BSRT also make 440 style shoes, in copper, silver plate or even Gold Plated at a very competitive price !


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## Ralphthe3rd (Feb 24, 2011)

PPS- also check out Shoes listed as fitting the Tyco Hoppers. As these are "Extra Deep Step" shoes, and some later Mattel cars(because of taller wheels), actually work Better with these shoes, which will work on any Tyco440/Mattel-HPX2 car....


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## partspig (Mar 12, 2003)

Well Ralph, I can't make any money buying at retail. I know Bob Molta, he won't sell at a discount to me, for some reason. Last time my supplier checked with REH John, they didn't have any Tyco step shoes, but they had plenty of ski shoes, the same with BSRT and Wizzard. I cannot order direct wholesale from BSRT, REH, Wizzard and all of the others cause I don't have a brick and mortar store. All of the Tyco shoes they sell, as far as I know are leftovers from Tyco, not re-pops. And by wholesale, I am talking 1000 pieces! Not a couple dozen or a hundred. I had guys that make tires tell me they won't sell to me either, so when the stuff I have is gone, I am done. Your telling a guy that has been doing this for over ten years you know better, prove it! pig


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## slotking (May 27, 2008)

how can you buy shoes without buying socks 1st?:tongue:

from slottech.net

1410 PRO X-2 SKI SHOES -Plain.
$13/10pr. $55/50pr. $1.50/pr


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## buzzinhornet (Jan 20, 2000)

I think he's looking for "step" shoes, not "ski" shoes.


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

The Pig ... nose.


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## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

Lard nose


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## Ralphthe3rd (Feb 24, 2011)

I'm sorry Dennis, I don't want to argue. All I know is, that I bought 50 pair back in june for $60, and there was plenty more(at the time) from where I got them from(and it wasn't from SCC). And although you may not be getting good wholesale pricing from the places that have horded them, the shoes ARE out there, just like other guys on this very forum have probably horded and stocked up on tens of thousands of shoes when they were a buck a pair. 
Ya know it's kind like back a dozen years ago when everyone thought that there were No original (NOS) Aurora T-Jet chassis to be had anymore, but there were cases stored for decades just waiting to be opened and sold when the time was right.....and we know the rest of that story. But back to Tyco Shoes, do you think that Mattel would be selling NEW sets/& cars without a new source of new shoes ? I mean the shoes on the NEW Mattel HPX2 chassis ain't the corroded OLD Tyco stock that often comes on the market..... NEW Shoes will be produced for Mattel slotcars, and as long as their is electricity- there will be Tyco 440 style Shoes available for one price or another.


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## slotking (May 27, 2008)

ski shoes are better
hence the link to slottech.

Now he a choice! same old or better:thumbsup:


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## partspig (Mar 12, 2003)

Mike do you need to have your eyes checked?? Or is it that you just don't peruse very well at all? Perhaps large words like I am, looking for, and step shoes are far beyond your reading comprehension. If I needed ski shoes do you think I would be post up snarfles about STEP SHOES?? I mean snarfling for giggles is one thing, but serious snarfling is another matter. And I for one am getting awfully tired of being second guessed on my snarfles and told that I should run my business like MR. Hunt and Peck and I snarkled five of those parts from Good and Plenty parts seller so they CAN'T be in short supply, all of which I consider serious snarfing! It is just becoming impocerous to comment without getting a ton of waffles that I didn't order!! Not that I don't like waffles, but geez. SO, I'm just saying that it is pocerously a real fact that I am way tired of all those extra waffles! How many waffle meals in a row can a guy take? After a while even a nice tasty waffle will taste like cardboard, no matter how much sweetness you bestow upon it! I have been doing this for a long time and have always coughed up what I know for free just to help guys out. So I am going to leave this forum to the professional snarflers, wafflers, know it alls and Johnny (no pun intended) come lately's. May you all snarf, waffle, and blow mucho flatulation's of very hot air to yer heart's content. I am officially retiring to my slot cave. Just call me Sgt. Schultz , cause "I know nothing!" See ya! :wave: pig


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## slotcarman12078 (Oct 3, 2008)

Damn.. Now I want waffles...and don't have none!!


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## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

can I have ice cream on my waffle?


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## TBI (Apr 25, 2011)

I know where to buy waffles for a buck a pair....as many pairs as I want :thumbsup:





:jest:


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## ggnagy (Aug 16, 2010)

Thre are places in New England where you can literally ski up to a Waffle Haus


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## bemoore (Dec 23, 2008)

slotking said:


> ski shoes are better
> hence the link to slottech.
> 
> Now he a choice! same old or better:thumbsup:


I've tried both. And I disagree. I found several sources of ski shoes, but none for step shoes. That's why I asked the question.


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## bemoore (Dec 23, 2008)

Mmmmm. Waffles.... Is that ski waffles, or step waffles?


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

Felt compelled to ski into a Waffle House last night. Everyone was singing and dancing 
the two-step to some Steppenwolf. I was shared my table with George Stephanopoulos.
We discussed politics, religion and the glory days of Tyco over some Ski vodka and waffles.
We developed a twelve step program to better subsidize slot cars to under privileged kids.
It's a step in the right direction.
I left as the house was playing, "The Ski is Cryin".


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## TBI (Apr 25, 2011)

NTxSlotCars said:


> Felt compelled to ski into a Waffle House last night. Everyone was singing and dancing
> the two-step to some Steppenwolf. I was shared my table with George Stephanopoulos.
> We discussed politics, religion and the glory days of Tyco over some Ski vodka and waffles.
> We developed a twelve step program to better subsidize slot cars to under privileged kids.
> ...


Don't quit your day job Shecky 




.....just sayin


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## slotking (May 27, 2008)

parts that a lot of words to type about nothing!


If you read his post, yes he said he had trouble with ski shoes.
fact is they work better better than step shoes.

The key is to simply help him how to set up the shoes.
so no need for all the babbling!:freak::wave:


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

Well then Gumby ... whats the hold up?

You waiting for an invite to the prom er what?

We really dont have any more time to wait for your games.

Hurry up and link us to your own site of....

babble.


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## bemoore (Dec 23, 2008)

slotking said:


> If you read his post, yes he said he had trouble with ski shoes.
> fact is they work better better than step shoes.
> 
> The key is to simply help him how to set up the shoes.
> so no need for all the babbling!:freak::wave:


I ran a race once with a Tyco with ski shoes. I had intermittent power problems the whole race. Afterwards, I traced it down to the ski shoes. I replaced them with step shoes, and the problem disappeared.

The problem, as I see it, is that the "contact patch" for ski shoes extends to a point that is very close to the back end of the shoe (where it contacts the brush barrel), and when a bump in the track in encountered, the whole shoe gets lifted, and contact with the brush barrel is lost intermittently.

Can this be fixed with a shoe adjustment?


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## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

yes, shoe adjustment is paramount to proper performance at all times and might even need to be adjusted more during competition. when changing lanes and cleaning the shoes, one should probably look at them first to determine proper tracking and patch contact!

can i have whip cream with my ice cream and waffle?


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

Best fix is to round the hanger so that the shoe physically clips onto the barrel.
Tyco's/Wizz cars are famous for lifting the shoe hanger off the barrel,best cure is eliminate the problem by making it so that the shoe can't physically lift off the barrel.

Rude and crude way is round the end of the shoe around a drillblank the size of the barrel you want the shoe to fit,using a pair of pliars.

Mark Mcvittie (sp??)sells a pair of pliars that puts a decent bend in the hanger,but you can still improve that bend by adding a little more "curl" to the hook.

I made myself a small homemade roller bearing "brake" that uses a small bearing and a piece of drillblank to add the extra curl,but pliars and a piece of drillblank will accomplish the same thing.


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## bemoore (Dec 23, 2008)

alpink said:


> when changing lanes and cleaning the shoes, one should probably look at them first to determine proper tracking and patch contact!


While I'm likely not the world's expert on adjusting pickup shoes, I CAN adjust them to get "proper tracking and patch contact".



Hornet said:


> Tyco's/Wizz cars are famous for lifting the shoe hanger off the barrel


So this is a known problem. So how are ski shoes better?



Hornet said:


> best cure is eliminate the problem by making it so that the shoe can't physically lift off the barrel.


Or use step shoes. If you bend the shoe to prevent it from lifting off the brush barrel, the shoe will still lift when hitting a bump... only now it will lift the car off the track.

Edit: I own page 3. Page 3? How did this simple request get to 3 pages.


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## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

LOL @ 3 pages. you a funny man, you make me laugh!


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## TBI (Apr 25, 2011)

Winter is just around the corner, might as well switch from shoes to boots....unless of course you would rather ski



...but then you would still need ski boots 



Either way, watch your step :thumbsup:


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

That's quite a spring you got on that shoe Bemoore if it's prying the car off the track,because the backs tied down:wave:.

I wasn't reconmending either shoe style,both styles have the same problem,just giving you a option for fixing the problem

Try it if you want,but don't try to theorize the idea,too much theory just bites you in the ass in this hobby,better off trying something,before you think you see it's problems:thumbsup::wave:

It works


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

TBI said:


> Don't quit your day job Shecky
> 
> .....just sayin


Wow, no need to treat me like a step shoe... 



:hat:


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

Bumps? Is this the track your running on?






Mine runs better with an 01 on the side when tracks are bumpy.


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## bemoore (Dec 23, 2008)

Hornet said:


> That's quite a spring you got on that shoe Bemoore if it's prying the car off the track,because the backs tied down:wave:.
> 
> I wasn't reconmending either shoe style,both styles have the same problem,just giving you a option for fixing the problem
> 
> ...


The point is, I DID try it, and the ski shoes were problematic.


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

LMAO,you tried rounding the hanger so it clips to the barrel,that's a good one.

I could care less if you try the idea,but don't scratch at theories to cover your ass:wave:

I run rounded hanger style shoes on Storm Thunder-jets,with no problems,and you're prying a mag car off the rails with the shoe,because the hangers tied down,maybe go back and re-think your shoe set-up


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

*In tandem*



alpink said:


> LOL @ 3 pages. you a funny man, you make me laugh!


....and we're still in dry dock :tongue:

Why do we need a step?

Why do we need a ski?

The idea that either shoe is the "best" is preposterous. They are two completely different things for two completely different applications.

The variation in shoes relates directly to variation in ride height. There's no best. There's only what fits correctly and provides the correct amount of travel and over bite for the required application. Although they are physically interchangeable they are not functionally interchangeable. They must be applied correctly in tandem with the ride height to be optimum.

In general most stock chassis use stepped shoes... modified/slammed chassis use skis. At the point that yer chassis is so low that a step shoe drives the wheels off you need a ski...if your chassis height puts your skis on tippy toe ....yeah ....you guessed it.....you need steps.

Where it gets tricky is when your right at the edge between one or the other...then ya need the pliers and some intuition! 

It aint rocket science....it's geometry.


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## slotking (May 27, 2008)

> I ran a race once with a Tyco with ski shoes. I had intermittent power problems the whole race. Afterwards, I traced it down to the ski shoes. I replaced them with step shoes, and the problem disappeared.
> 
> The problem, as I see it, is that the "contact patch" for ski shoes extends to a point that is very close to the back end of the shoe (where it contacts the brush barrel), and when a bump in the track in encountered, the whole shoe gets lifted, and contact with the brush barrel is lost intermittently.
> 
> Can this be fixed with a shoe adjustment?


1st the reason ski are made is because top racers found that they work better than step shoes. This has been the case for years.

we often made sveral adjustments
1> lower the front end by sanding the front tire or just using smaller front tires/hubs (smaller rear silicone tires are best as well)
2>color the patch area of the shoe with a sharpie. 1 lap should mark the ride area. adjust the shoe with needle nose pliers or just push the heel towards the car with your thumb while using the other thumb to stop the shoe hanger from lifting off the barrel.

do a little at a time so you do not over push and run on the toe
Note! some may not a agree but I like the shoe to be mostly flat with just a hair of the toe not touching the rail! (only for toy track)

this helps the shoes to transition over rough spots better.

For best performance the tips hornet suggestions are very good.

I would also suggest getting U shaped pickup springs from Slottech or Wizzard or the vendors out there.

last if you want send me a chassis with ski shoes and i will set it for you.
pm for contact info.

this way you can see what I mean and copy it



(I will edit any typos on Friday )


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## bemoore (Dec 23, 2008)

Hornet said:


> LMAO,you tried rounding the hanger so it clips to the barrel,that's a good one.
> 
> I could care less if you try the idea,but don't scratch at theories to cover your ass:wave:
> 
> ...


No. I didn't try bending the shoes to prevent them from coming off the barrel. The "I tried it" comment applied to the ski shoes. However, we all know that tuning for handling involves shoe tension. IF the shoe setup generates excessive upward force, it will adversely affect the handling.


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## TBI (Apr 25, 2011)

NTxSlotCars said:


> Wow, no need to treat me like a step shoe...
> 
> 
> 
> :hat:


  :thumbsup:


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## bemoore (Dec 23, 2008)

slotking said:


> 1st the reason ski are made is because top racers found that they work better than step shoes. This has been the case for years.
> 
> we often made sveral adjustments
> 1> lower the front end by sanding the front tire or just using smaller front tires/hubs (smaller rear silicone tires are best as well)


The car in question had independent fronts with tires (front and rear) sized to just scrape the chassis.



slotking said:


> Note! some may not a agree but I like the shoe to be mostly flat with just a hair of the toe not touching the rail! (only for toy track)


Interesting. Exactly how I set up my shoes.



slotking said:


> this helps the shoes to transition over rough spots better.


Exactly why I do it this way, or, used to do it this way. This setup puts the upward force on the pickup shoe at a point just forward of the brush barrel. This gives that force more leverage to lighten the front end and/or lift the shoe off the brush barrel.


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

I think braids would completely solve yalls problems, either for your shoes, or your hair.
Check out this thread...
http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=257624


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

Hard to argue with theory ain't it.

Me i learned years ago to actually try an idea,before i started telling anybody what was wrong with the idea.

If you aren't interested in trying the idea i don't care,but don't try to theorize it with-out trying it first.

Hey bud,you're not the first one to take swipes at it,i even had a manufacture're drawing pic's on his board years ago about how it doesn't work ,so you're kinda re-hashing something i went through years ago.

Don't try it,you're probably better off not

Rick


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## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

sitting here on the steps with my skis crossed waiting for a waffle with ice cream and whipped cream, thank you very much!


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

:wave:

Sum-bitch Al,every once in awhile you make me giggle:thumbsup:


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## cwbam (Feb 8, 2010)

try
https://store.mattel.com/Search.aspx?cat=139&sec=8713&productid=none
Chassis for HW ER Nascar

SHOES (take them of yourself) with free MISSION IMPOSSIBLE TiRES!!!


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## TBI (Apr 25, 2011)

alpink said:


> sitting here on the steps with my skis crossed waiting for a waffle with ice cream and whipped cream, thank you very much!


Smoke and a Pancake?


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## slotking (May 27, 2008)

bemore

but if you have a problem running ski shoes, then something is not quite right!
no matter what i tried I could not get stock shoes to work as well as ski shoes,
and I assume that the case for many top HO magnet car drivers. And that why the became big sellers.

Again I am willing to setup a car for you.


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

TBI said:


> Smoke and a Pancake?


Is this another Tjet joke?


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## TBI (Apr 25, 2011)

NTxSlotCars said:


> Is this another Tjet joke?


:wave:


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## Super Coupe (Feb 16, 2010)

At first I thought this place was crazy,but now I can see it's nuts.LOL 
>Tom<


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## slotking (May 27, 2008)

last note:

on the same car, ski shoes will out perform step shoes every time.
I did a good bit of testing on this


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## bemoore (Dec 23, 2008)

*My thesis on pickup shoes*

In the discussion below, I will refer to the front of the shoe as the toe, and the rear of the shoe as the heel.

Check out the various pickup shoes on cars from history. Look at a tjet. It has a long shoe with a step. It also has the spring located right next to the hangar near the heel of the shoe. This exerts more pressure on the shoe heel/hangar contact at the expense of the toe contact. Now let's look at, say, a Tyco 440 or 440X2. It has a short shoe with much stiffer spring, which it can get away with due to the traction magnets. The shoe still has a step, and the spring contact point is toward the rear of the shoe, thereby again putting more pressure on the heel contact vs the toe. Let's look at a couple of high end race classes. Modifieds vs RO. I don't race these classes, so my understanding may be off. But as I understand, the primary difference between these two classes, is that RO can use shunts* on the shoes, and Modified cannot. Therefore RO cars don't have any concern over the heel contact. Only the contact between the shoe and the rail is of concern. The result? RO's run with very low shoe pressure, and are considerably faster. I think that RO's and Modifieds have about the same power, but RO's handle better due to the low shoe pressure. All of these data points indicate that the primary source of loss in the pickup shoe setup is the heel contact. All of the cars with pickup springs (as opposed to ones with shunts) are designed from the factory (you know, by people who know what they're doing) with emphasis on the heel contact at the expense of the toe contact. Therefore, to improve the pressure (and reduce the resistance) on the heel contact, the shoe to rail interface needs to be as far forward as possible, and the point where the spring contacts the shoe needs to be as far rearward as possible. Meaning... a step shoe. Adjusting the shoe so that it contacts the rail at the very front of the shoe will work quite well, electrically, but the shoe won't last very long. The only advantage I've found from a ski shoe is that it lasts WAY longer than a step shoe.

AFX non MT's, AFX MT's, G+'s, SG+'s, 440's, 440X2's, etc all have a shoe setup that emphasizes the heel contact at the expense of the toe contact. Ski shoes do the opposite.

Maybe you guys with cars that are scraping the rails on the front and rear of the chassis can't use step shoes just because your chassis are too low, but that doesn't describe my cars. I prefer a car that rides completely off the rails, front and rear. Yes, I know that this is slower, and I wouldn't dream of doing this for a competitive class, but for fun (or an IROC class, or house cars, etc), running up off the rails results in MUCH less clickity-clack, and much smoother running. I want to set up some cars as an IROC class for some tjet racers. 440X2's are already almost too fast in stock form (but I have a bunch of them). So I'm favoring a setup that is smoother over one that's faster. I may even try replacing the magnets with weights, in which case, I REALLY don't want a ski shoe, unless I go with shunts.

Guys, I'm not asking for setup help. Or how to get ski shoes to work. Or how well they work. I'm comfortable in my knowledge of how they work FOR MY CARS. And step shoes work better ON MY CARS.

* I know that most of you know what shunts are, but for those who don't.... They are short wires with one end soldered to the pickup shoe and the other end soldered to the brush barrel. The connection from the shoe to the brush barrel is replaced with a wire. Electrically, the pickup shoe doesn't even need to contact the brush barrel.


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## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

yes, and in 1/24 racing where the motor brushes are shunted from the pickup braid wires, the springs providing push to the brushes are insulated to avoid conducting and therefore building heat which can diminish the spring pressure. but that is a whole other animal.


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## slotking (May 27, 2008)

bemore 
I run t-jets to unlimited cars.
I will not type as much as you

1> shunts, i went away from shunts in the high cars because of how i hook the shoe on the hanger, i no longer needed shunts the cars run cools and the tension is super soft! even my super stock and tyco cars that does not drag on the track. You will be surprise at how many top national racers seem to float their cars over the rails.

again i use the double springs and set them up with more contact towards the front of the car.

you also said


> The car in question had independent fronts with tires (front and rear) sized to just scrape the chassis.


which is different than what your saying below. that's why I mentioned lowering the front using stock fronts is another ball game!

because of what as you said in the quote above, ski shoes are better.
again the key is even line from front to back on the shoe for conductivity.

raising the toe a hair is for handling only on toy track

send me a slow car, with issues, and i can show you. if you do not like it you get a full refund


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## partspig (Mar 12, 2003)

Hey SLOTKING, I have no idea why the in the :beatdeadhorse: you keep preaching race set-ups to this guy. He obviously doesn't race, just putts around on his home track. SO tell us why your beating the hell outta that poor horse, before ya get arrested for cruelty to animals.


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## neorules (Oct 20, 2006)

Slotking said: "send me a slow car, with issues, and i can show you. if you do not like it you get a full refund."


Mike -- I've got one thats been stepped on. How much is the refund?


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## Slott V (Feb 3, 2005)

I agree this topic is getting beaten to death as Tyco 440x2 technology is pretty well covered everywhere, but Mike's just trying to help so can't people have a little tolerance? :wave: His point is if you can't find the old step shoe any more, adapt, improvise, overcome. You can make a step in a ski shoe with a little work. I've seen guys make bending jigs to do just that. The T-Jet guys go through the same thing. More and more you're going to have trouble finding those step shoes, its inevitable.

In the old days before the internet and hobby shops were within reach, when my Tyco step shoes got grooved I soldered up the holes and sanded them smooth. Worked well to revive some of them. If your shoes get grooved quickly you need to smooth out the connections and you'll get more longevity out of 'em.

-Scott V.


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## slotking (May 27, 2008)

> Hey SLOTKING, I have no idea why the in the you keep preaching race set-ups to this guy. He obviously doesn't race,


hey try reading!
he said he runs the low front setup i said I run!
so it does not matter if he's a home racer or not!
better is better! and i am talking to him not you!
based on his posts, he no dummy and can advocate for himself.:dude:


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## slotking (May 27, 2008)

> Tyco step shoes got grooved I soldered up the holes and sanded them smooth. Worked well to revive some of them.


Slott,
i have not done it, but some guys solder on piece of brass/copper to cover the shoe hole


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

After digging out a new Tyco/Mattel chassis,and trying to duplicate your problems with both styles of shoe,i can't see where you're gonna have a problem with either shoe,on stock front tires.
You sure you got the bulkheads in right side up.
The tabs go over the shoes.

If anything a "ski" shoe should have less tendenancy to lift off the barrel and cause the intermitten power problem you're mentioning,then the "step" shoe.
I spent a 1/2 hr on my bench playing with both styles shoe,and i'm not quite see'ing your problem
Can you post a picture of your cars.


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## slotking (May 27, 2008)

remember 
peanut butter goes well with jelly


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## bemoore (Dec 23, 2008)

slotking said:


> you also said
> 
> "The car in question had independent fronts with tires (front and rear) sized to just scrape the chassis."
> 
> which is different than what your saying below. that's why I mentioned lowering the front using stock fronts is another ball game!


I must admit to an error here. My old memory cells aren't what they used to be. The fronts were stock "Indys". The rears were sized to scrape the rails.

The class rules:
- Stock Tyco 440X2 slimline or Tomy SG+ chassis
- Tycos may use poly traction magnets
- Any rear tire & wheel
- Stock front tire & wheel
- Stock electrics, including arm (but ski shoes were allowed)
- Double pickup springs were allowed. (which I used)
- Stock axles
- Stock gears
- No shims.
- Open wheel body

This is close, I think, to what's often referred to as Poly Stock. The Tyco had the advantage on most tracks. The SG+ still had more speed, but the X2 had better handling.

This was our "Indy" class. We also had a "Nascar" class that was the same, except that the Tyco had to be the pan chassis, and the front tires had to be the stock (larger) tires & wheels that came with the pan chassis. And a Nascar body.

I only tried the ski shoes with my Indy car. It behaved as if there were sections of track that had no power. I ran the car slowly around the track, and it never stopped. Then I thought the shoes were grooved, but they weren't. At speed, it was intermittent until I put step shoes back on it.


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

Just remember to recycle your old shoes.


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## slotking (May 27, 2008)

HMM, real race rules and not just plying at home!
1 reason people should not butt in for others!:tongue::tongue::roll:

No problem on the setup think the indy fronts are not the huge fat front nascar fronts.

offer is still open LOL


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## Slott V (Feb 3, 2005)

NTxSlotCars said:


> Just remember to recycle your old shoes.


HA that's awesome!


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## bemoore (Dec 23, 2008)

slotking said:


> HMM, real race rules and not just plying at home!


It's true that I was racing under real race rules at the time I found the problem. But now I'm interested in running at home and/or building a fleet of IROC cars.


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## TBI (Apr 25, 2011)

NTxSlotCars said:


> Just remember to recycle your old shoes.


Sparky should be able to buy quite a few waffles with the money he makes from that haul :thumbsup:


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

*The #1 reason we prefer playing at home...*



slotking said:


> HMM, real race rules and not just plying at home!
> 1 reason people should not butt in for others!:tongue::tongue::roll:
> 
> No problem on the setup think the indy fronts are not the huge fat front nascar fronts.
> ...


No Whalpoles or heirs apparent.

Priceless!


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## partspig (Mar 12, 2003)

It literally amazes me on how often the racing guys push their agendas on here. Sometimes the I, ME, MY way is BETTER cause I say so, gets a bit old. That is not always the case. It also amazes me that anyone can set up a car for a track that he has never seen or ran on and beat the snot out of the hometown crowd. Every time I put my cars on a new track for the first time I got my azz handed to me. Till I learned what to do to my set up to make my car better for that particular track. Apparently some guys have the Magic Mondo in their box!  I never set my cars up like someone else does, 'cause I don't drive 'em like you do. 

Bemoore, I am sure that you know how to wrench on these cars, it is not Rocket Science. They are pretty simple little beasties. JMHOFO, ... I would take a close look at your whole set up and make some small changes to see what happens. Try running the car so it is NOT dragging on the rails, but just barely scraping them once in a while. Pay extra attention to your shoe geometry and spring pressure. Just a thought. Have a good day! pig

Shoe geometry???? OMG, now there's a new word!


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## slotking (May 27, 2008)

iT AMAZES me how people jump into conversations and think they can push there anti racing agenda! not only fail to notice that 2 people are having a conversation, and be completely ignorant of that conversation! and make ignorant statement based on their ignorance!

example from parts :


> He obviously doesn't race, just putts around on his home track.


wow!



> It also amazes me that anyone can set up a car for a track that he has never seen or ran on and beat the snot out of the hometown crowd


not that uncommon! i have seen it done, had it done, and done it a good number of times for others:wave:

Otherwise i would not offer 

I am not one, but I have seen racers walk in to a new track and have figure out and in less than 30 min they are there! and walk out with the win!


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

Pig quit reading the post if it's bothering you,

Mikes at least trying to help the guy out,what are you contributing,besides nothing.

PS,it's alot better reading then reading about how to paint another T-jet body "again",or how to apply decals to a wheel ,or what bodies AutoWorld's gonna release.etc.
Some guys like the racing end of the hobby

Carry on Mike.

Rick


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## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

https://store.mattel.com/ItemDetail....139&item=57319


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## Dyno Dom (May 26, 2007)

bemoore, Bill, Mike & Rick offered good advice for your set-up regardless
of the level of your racing interest. I would agree that front tire height
and p/u spring tension can be a factor.


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## Ralphthe3rd (Feb 24, 2011)

Like I said early on in this thread, step shoes Can be Had ! eg- I was just at the Official Mattel site, and ordered some more HPx2 Chassis at $2.98 a pop, and they also list the step shoes themselves for $1.98/pr.
Here is a link, tho I'm not sure it will work....
https://store.mattel.com/Results.aspx?Ntt=electric racing&tc=Parts


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## slotking (May 27, 2008)

good link!
thanks


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## kiwidave (Jul 20, 2009)

What the hell is a "anti racing agenda"??? Please explain. 

"PS,it's alot better reading then reading about how to paint another T-jet body "again",or how to apply decals to a wheel ,or what bodies AutoWorld's gonna release.etc."

So these aspects of the hobby don't matter as long as you have the fastest chassis in the world?


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

What's a Racing Agenda,when you get that figured out,the opposite would be "Anti" Racing Agenda.
That's the way i read it,not sure how you read it down in the southern half of the world,but maybe that'll help you out,lol 

Damn New Zealanders,lol.
You're reading way to much into that statement.
Never said they didn't matter,but just how often can you read about how to mount or paint a body before it becomes boring.
Quit reading between the lines when there isn't any lines,and don't take things so literally:thumbsup:

PS,you guys gotta lay off the quotes,i personally think they aren't really a needed entity,but that's just my opinion
Rick


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## slotking (May 27, 2008)

what eveyone needs to focus on is how cute my Gumby icon is!
BTW
as anyone seen pokey??


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## TBI (Apr 25, 2011)

Check out my new decals :thumbsup:


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## 440s-4ever (Feb 23, 2010)

Great logo, I hadn't heard of N.W.A. since the early 90s. 

What kind of shoes is that eagle using? They look to have excellent contact with the waffle surface.


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## partspig (Mar 12, 2003)

Well, I must say, thank you Slotking and Hornet, for those very kind words. I am the hobbies most ignorant, anti - racing idiot that there ever was. I have never made any contributions to this hobby at all. I do hope that you two guys have a most salubrious day perusing the photographs of my ignorant anti - racing days. I know for a fact that Slotking knows all about them, cause he set foot in that Raceway, or did he?? Anyways, I hope that everyone has a great day. Goodbye. pig



The pits!










The eight lane 30 foot (measured tip to tip) Tomy track.









Ed Bianchi routed road course with magnetic braid.









My Tomy road course track with increasing/decreasing radius turns.









The Tomy replacement track. A six lane Max Trax that measured 28 feet tip to tip. Shown during install.









Here it is installed and ready to race on. We added lap timing after photo was taken.









Another shot of the finished installation. All tracks were powered with Galinko power supplies and had lap timing/counting.


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## slotking (May 27, 2008)

again!
learn to read!
i said nothing of the kind!


I only stated the facts of you being wrong in what you said and assumed!

yep
that simple
It was an A B conversation :wave:


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## partspig (Mar 12, 2003)

slotking said:


> iT AMAZES me how people jump into conversations and think they can push there anti racing agenda! not only fail to notice that 2 people are having a conversation, and be completely ignorant of that conversation! and make ignorant statement based on their ignorance!


UMMMM, yes you did say that! pig


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## Ralphthe3rd (Feb 24, 2011)

(Off-Topic) Nice pix of the layouts Dennis :thumbsup:
PS- can't we all just get along and play nicely ?


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

Same here,nice pics.

Why are you so upset over Mike trying to help the guy out.

Me: i was just being a smart-ass trying to help the Kiwi out,relax Dave,only joking:wave::wave:

So sit back and relax,you never know,maybe you'll learn something,not saying you need to learn anything,but relax and listen.

Mike can be off the wall at times,but usually his advice isn't that bad:thumbsup:

Rick


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## slotking (May 27, 2008)

sorry your right I did say that! I was wrong in saying I did not say that! but figured i said it for a reason!

yep i did! i said because again you were wrong! LOL
you said


> It literally amazes me on how often the racing guys push their agendas on here


Which is is another of your many wrong statements!

the shoe issue is not a racing agenda is but concern over why someone would have a problems with ski shoes vs step shoes!

That what my convo with Be is about!

you seem to have the problem with something that did not involve you


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## TBI (Apr 25, 2011)

This thread reminds me of a TV show


























]


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## 70ss (Aug 22, 2005)

Thats funny. Good thing I wasn't drinking anything or my laptop would be wet.


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

This is clearly a case of racism between the pigs and the gumbys.

Happy Thanksgiving.


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## TBI (Apr 25, 2011)

NTxSlotCars said:


> This is clearly a case of racism between the pigs and the gumbys.
> 
> Happy Thanksgiving.


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## GOODWRENCH88 (Feb 3, 2009)

Damn New Zealanders
I TAKE EXTREME EXCEPTION TO A STATEMENT LIKE THIS. THEY DON`T HAVE THE BRAINS TO VOICE THEIR IDEAS AND OPINIONS? WHO ELECTED YOU TO A HIGHER STATUS? IF YOU WANT TO MAKE STATEMENTS LIKE THIS I SUGGEST YOU DO IT IN PERSON. I MET SOME KIWIS IN S.E. ASIA AND I WOULD TRUST MY LIFE IN THEIR HANDS BEFORE MANY `D&+M YANKS`. I SAW THEM STAND THEIR GROUND SO WOUNDED AND DEAD COULD BE DRAGGED FROM THE FIELD. SORRY I CHIMED IN BUT I`VE KNOWN THE KIWI YOU DIRECTED THIS TO FOR MANY YEARS.


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## slotking (May 27, 2008)

the "LOL" (that you left off)after the statement meant he was joking!

after all he from canada! another subjugated country of the queen! LOL

just kidding


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## kiwidave (Jul 20, 2009)

Look your highness, there's a difference between being a smart ass and being a condescending smart ass. LOL at the end of a statement doesn't always cut it! Now you want to bring up my heritage!


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

LMAO,how to blow things out of proportion

You guys need to take a valium or something,:thumbsup:

Mike and a couple of us are only trying to help a guy out,apparently helping a guy out isn't allowed.

What the hecks wrong with you guys,give your heads a shake boys.

I could see your complaint's if somebodies giving out bad advice,but as far as i can tell most of the advice given is pretty logical.

And Dave you stepped in whining first,so i'm tired of reading about how to paint or mount a body,or what Auto World's gonna release next,what's it to you.
I was only being a smart-ass,you came in with the idea of starting a scrap:wave:

Kevin take the caps lock off,and relax

Sorry boys,don't cry innocent and expect everybody to believe you:tongue:
Rick


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## slotking (May 27, 2008)

:tongue::wave:


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## bemoore (Dec 23, 2008)

Now I remember why, after our local HO club died, I didn't try to save it.


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## partspig (Mar 12, 2003)

bemoore said:


> Now I remember why, after our local HO club died, I didn't try to save it.


Same here bemoore, I just let the race place die. In a way, it was a relief.


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## slotking (May 27, 2008)

here we still have a lot of fun!
we all help each other! maybe that my problem

instead of letting places die, i try to help!
explains a lot:wave:


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

Yea we've been going for 20 yrs,and it probably has something to do with the fact we help each other out:thumbsup:.

Nobody keeps speed secrets,if somebody finds a way to go faster,it's shared with everybody,and we don't take it too serious,it's a hobby,not a living.

Bemoore,i still think you must of been doing something wrong with your shoe set-up.
I tried duplicating your problem,and i couldn't get the results you were describing,unless i literally "V' d" the shoe,as in excessively "heel" heavy.Then i could get the ski shoe to lift off the barrel,cause it would go into a bind on the front of the shoe and chassis,and consequently it would lift the back of the shoe up off the barrel
You say this was a few years ago,it might be worth your time,going back and re-visiting the problem.


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## slotking (May 27, 2008)

> Nobody keeps speed secrets,if somebody finds a way to go faster,it's shared with everybody,and we don't take it too serious,it's a hobby,not a living


It not really a tip for going faster, but more for slowing down the competition!

1>eats lots of eggs & beans to produce a friendly race enviroment
2>4 to 7 days of no hygiene 
3>talk very loud
4>no shirt

hope that helps


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## partspig (Mar 12, 2003)

Hmmmmm, Judging by the attitudes that you two, slotking and Hornet, have exhibited here in this thread, I am quite sure that I would not want your help, nor your brand of "fun" present at/or in my raceway. pig


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

LOL,Ditto,i'm pretty sure you wouldn't be wanted here either,so at least we finally agree on something:thumbsup:


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

*Tuna-fish*

If y'all are such great tuners...

why cant you adjust yer attitudes and the tone of yer posts. 

D'oh! :freak:

What...?! Dat's not funny?

Really? See> LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL....I'm LMAO....and so are all the guys who just hosed their favorite beverage into their keyboards. 

Here, I'll add >  and that will bring it up to the standard of this thread

I pooped on you; but it's OK now because I sanitized it with emoticons....right? :wave:


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## smalltime (Jun 3, 2006)

From what I can tell, these two are some of the best at getting the stuff stired up. LOL

And they are two of the best at bashing certain manufacturers products also.ROFL

Were's Hankster when you need him?

Just more magnet car board bullcrap bleeding over here. :wave::wave::wave::wave::wave::wave::wave:


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## partspig (Mar 12, 2003)

Agreed smalltime, makes you wonder why they are hanging out here on this board. Maybe they are trying to win the Golden Oar Award for slot car forums. :freak: pig


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## kiwidave (Jul 20, 2009)

What are you on??? I asked a question about a term I had never heard before and wanted you to clarify your opinion of our hobby? NO answers just you being a smart ass. Your words!
Caps lock? Who made you Hobby talk Sheriff? Opps whining again LOLOLOLOLOL!!!!
And for future reference we are culturally different. Something that is offensive to me may not seem offensive to you. And Vic a-versa. I'm pretty sure if I used the term "Damn Americans" here it wouldn't take long for that to upset some one. Just have a wee think about that!

And Slotking your last post was funny but I'm going to wait until the next race and right towards to end of the race I'll get Mrs Kiwidave to take her shirt off. I'll win for sure!!! Great tip!

For ages 8+


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## TBI (Apr 25, 2011)

kiwidave said:


> I'm going to wait until the next race and right towards to end of the race I'll get Mrs Kiwidave to take her shirt off. I'll win for sure!!! Great tip!
> 
> For ages 8+


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## slotking (May 27, 2008)

> Judging by the attitudes




LOL that's funny! from the guy who freak out about some tips!
hmm, also saw no posts about knocking a manufacturer!

seems some guys just like to lie to to try and hide the truth

not sure why some morons freak out about a conversation between 2 people!
what an attitude:wave:


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

I figure Slott V said it best on post number 60:thumbsup:
If the step shoes are hard to get now,i can't see them being any easier to get a year from now,so guys will have to adapt to the other style shoe,or do like Scott suggests and build yourself a mini bender to put your own step in a shoe

I re-read every post,and i still can't grasp why guys got upset,maybe somebody explain it me,as i'm too dumb to figure out why this thread went the way it did.

Guys are mis-quoted,which doesn't help matters much,so if you're gonna quote something,make sure you got the right quote

Bill check your messages:wave:


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## partspig (Mar 12, 2003)

Really?? You cannot grasp why someone would get upset with some of the posts in this thread! Take your sunglasses off so you can smell the roses man! This is a FORUM, not a private email service, everyone that is a member here is entitled to post his/her opinion any time and anywhere in HT as long as those posts are civil. Being told to butt out, or being called names like anti-racing, ignorant, Damn New Zealanders, morons, and more, are words that prejudiced people use. Some posts in here have shown a decided bias towards the bulk of this hobby, sad to say, it is. I really must say that there is more to it than just racing. It is sad to see those that think that way. It makes me question the long term survivability of this hobby in general, with such pervasive attitudes as yours, it is no wonder why young people gravitate elsewhere. I am quite sure that most modern day racers know quite a lot about setting up a race car. But the question is, what else do you know about the hobby? And what do you tell young people that become interested in it? The same thing you said here? That you don't care about the rest of the hobby?? What kind of an attitude is that? Is that what young people need to learn from "responsible" adults? Geez. ........ Have a salubrious day! pig


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## 440s-4ever (Feb 23, 2010)

I like little toy cars. Fiddling with them is a nice diversion from all the nastiness going on in the world. 

Speaking as a damn american, I will take no offense to being called such because this is a place where people who like to play with little toy cars hangout. It is not a UN conference.

If posters wish to poop on a thread, please move into a Tjet thread. There are many many tjet threads to poop on but relatively few tyco-centric threads.

In closing, I wish to quite Triumph the insult comic dog. Tjets are good.....to poop on.


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## TBI (Apr 25, 2011)

440s-4ever said:


> I like little toy cars. Fiddling with them is a nice diversion from all the nastiness going on in the world.


No more calls please folks, we have a winner! :thumbsup:


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

Check post 17 out Snarfles.

Who was upset over nothing then,and who was doing the leaping on members then,short memory huh.

Ps.i don't leap on anybody till after they've taken a swat at me,i don't start things,but i also don't step back,when somebody takes a slice at me.
I didn't start anything other then offer a solution to his problem that he could try on Post #30,long after you're snarfling post ,then i started getting hit with crap

You're best bet would be to re-read the entire thread,with glasses on

I'm a bad infleunce,maybe,but don't look in a mirror too hard yourself,it just might crack.
Good bye Dennis,i'm tired of wasting my time:thumbsup:
Rick

Bemoore,one of my pet peeves are guys who theorize a tip into the ground with-out trying the tip,just a heads up


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## Dyno Dom (May 26, 2007)

Seems odd, this being a topic concerning p/u shoes in a General Discussion
forum of an HO slot car BB. Varied advice is offered from members of
different levels of experience & interest, although all have a fondness for
HO slot cars, lines are continually drawn between inlines & pancakes. WHY?


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## slotking (May 27, 2008)

> You cannot grasp why someone would get upset with some of the posts in this thread!


it all started with you freaking about tips on tyco shoes!
nothing you say can change the fact that you took this thread down hill!


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## Griffworks (Jun 24, 2002)

And that is _more_ than enough of *that*!


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