# Clear coat necessary on gloss paint?



## Aurorafan (Jun 16, 2001)

Last question(s) about the voyager paint job I'm doing. I've gotten the gloss white finish smooth, (thanks to suggestions from fellow board members) Now I'm thinking of adding a high gloss clear coat to the paint. (model master high gloss) Is this counter productive? Will it offer little change for extra effort? Does model master react negatively with testors products? Any thoughts or advice is appreciated.


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## Dave Metzner (Jan 1, 1970)

Model Master is Testors paint the same formulation as Testors enamel.
If you're using Model Master enamel with Testors enamel you should have no problems.
I would be careful not to try Model Manster lacquer ove enamels without testing it on scrap plastic.......

If your Gloss white looks good you probably won't gain much by adding gloss coat.......

Dave


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

Aurorafan said:


> ...I'm thinking of adding a high gloss clear coat to the paint...


Not just Model Master, but _any_ lacquer is likely to be problematic, over enamel. Lacquer thinner tends to dissolve paint and plastic.


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## Aurorafan (Jun 16, 2001)

I didn't realize Model Master is testors, but the can does say that it is an enamel top coat. Is there lacquer in enamel?


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## Auroranut (Jan 12, 2008)

Testors do a dullcote and glosscote that I think are lacquers, but the Model master clear is enamel. 
Acrylics will cover enamels, enamels will cover lacquers.
Lacquers will fry enamels, enamels will fry acrylics.
Whenever I paint styrene with lacquers, I first spray with Duplicolor primer undercoat as a barrier. 

Chris.


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## Aurorafan (Jun 16, 2001)

Thanks Chris for those rules of thumb.


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## john_trek (Apr 13, 2000)

Auroranut said:


> Testors do a dullcote and glosscote that I think are lacquers, but the Model master clear is enamel.
> Acrylics will cover enamels, enamels will cover lacquers.
> Lacquers will fry enamels, enamels will fry acrylics.
> Whenever I paint styrene with lacquers, I first spray with Duplicolor primer undercoat as a barrier.
> ...


Oh my gosh.... that's great information, but unless I print this out and stick it to the wall over my work bench I'll never remember it.

We could really use a mnemonic. 
Is there a painting rule equivalent to the piano teacher's friend: "Every Good Boy Does Fine" ?


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## Prince of Styrene II (Feb 28, 2000)

Aurorafan said:


> I didn't realize Model Master is testors


Yep, Model Master paint pigments are ground finer than standard Testors paints. Model Master will go on finer & give you a better finish.

As for the gloss coat, go for it. It will help your ship look shiny bright & will also protect the paint for getting chipped.


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## MML (Apr 20, 2008)

Auroranut said:


> Testors do a dullcote and glosscote that I think are lacquers, but the Model master clear is enamel.
> Acrylics will cover enamels, enamels will cover lacquers.
> Lacquers will fry enamels, enamels will fry acrylics.
> Whenever I paint styrene with lacquers, I first spray with Duplicolor primer undercoat as a barrier.
> ...


Chris, will enamels ruin acrylics even after the acrylic has fully cured? Is there any way to protect the acrylic?


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## Auroranut (Jan 12, 2008)

Hi MML,
I've personally found enamels will fry or at least damage water based acrylics like Tamiya. But I can drybrush enamels over a fully dried acrylic wash with no worries. I do it all the time. Some acrylics work differently to each other. I can thin Tamiya with water or windex, I can thin Gunze Sangyo acrylics with water or general purpose thinner!! I haven't tried it, but you might be able to put enamel over the Gunze....I just stick with the theory. I don't like to tempt fate.

Chris.


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

I airbrush Model Master Clear Laquer over enamels and acrylics all the time. Plus I thin my acrylic and enamel paints with Laquer thinner. Works like a charm.

You have to be careful with the MM clear gloss enamel in the smaller size jars. The stuff yellows badly and easily if you apply it too thickly. I do not use this stuff ever.


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## MML (Apr 20, 2008)

On a possibly related note, I sprayed my Halcyon Nostromo with Humbrol acrylic matt varnish last night, and when I went to look at it today, it's got lots of what looks like little white "fibres" or hairs over it!

As far as I can remember I painted it with Tamiya acrylics, sprayed it with Humbrol gloss acrylic varnish, then a black enamel wash. That was about a month ago. I was out of matt varnish at the time so I just got round to doing it last night. 

I've never seen that happen before.


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

It sounds like dust if the model sat for a month. Humidity causes clear coats to blush or have a frosty white finish.


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## MML (Apr 20, 2008)

djnick66 said:


> It sounds like dust if the model sat for a month. Humidity causes clear coats to blush or have a frosty white finish.


It definitely wasn't dust, it's been sitting under plastic the entire time - I loosely drape a plastic dust sheet over the workbench every night to keep away dust or water drops from the shed roof. The model was sitting on a "to-do" shelf.

About the white finish though, some of the small antennae have a whitish appearance on them... Humidity may have been a factor.


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

It still sounds like dust to me. The plastic sheet may attract it and inadvertantly transfer it to the model. The clear varnish would make it more visible. IMHO it sounds like dust. Since dust floats around in the air, just putting something over a model that isnt't sealed or air tight doesn't necessarily keep dust off the model.


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## Dino Lynn Bob (Sep 28, 2008)

If it has fibers in the paint, it is dust either on the model when sprayed or in the air when sprayed. Humidity problems arn't caused by dust.

Lynn


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## jackshield (May 20, 2008)

i dont know about one paint "frying" the other. when i was a younger, and did all the military minitures, i used nothing but testor enamels, always coated with testor's dullcote, which is a laquer. things i do now, plastics anyways, are started with enamels, primed and base coated, then i do washes and dry brushing with acrylics, the 2 oz squeeze bottle from hooby looby. i still use testor's glosscote and dullcote for final coats, have not had problem with any frying the other. of course, my models sit long enough betweens stages, most probably get a minimun of one week dry time, but i have done some of these as early as 24 hours as previous coat. i think if you stay in the testors line, the paints are "weak" enough not to have adverse affects, but i sure would like an alternative, tesotrs enamel thinner @ $9 can, which is a pretty small can, probably in the are of 20 0z or so, works out to too much/gallon.


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## MML (Apr 20, 2008)

I realise now that the white marks are _varnish bloom _- never had that before. It was pretty cold that night, come to think of it. 
I read somewhere about getting rid of it by overcoating with gloss and then matt again, is that right?


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## Aurorafan (Jun 16, 2001)

The thought of Model Master yellowing scares me (on a white model) I discovered a bottle of Future Floor wax in my basement recently. Would that be better? Also, could I simply brush it on without streaks?


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## Prince of Styrene II (Feb 28, 2000)

"Discovered" makes me wonder just how old it is. A fresh bottle would be better. I absolutely _love_ Future!!! No diluting needed, sprays straight from the airbrush & it's self leveling. In the two years I've been using it, I havn't had any problems with it yellowing.


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## JeffG (May 10, 2004)

djnick66 said:


> I airbrush Model Master Clear Laquer over enamels and acrylics all the time. Plus I thin my acrylic and enamel paints with Laquer thinner. Works like a charm.
> 
> You have to be careful with the MM clear gloss enamel in the smaller size jars. The stuff yellows badly and easily if you apply it too thickly. I do not use this stuff ever.


Yep. Exactly. I've airbrushed Model Master clears over enamels for years with no problems, and even over acrylics as you have to use acrylic paints on vinyl figure kits, but I've found once this was done, you can seal them with Dullcote-which is a lacquer. I believe the MM lacquers may be a slightly milder formulation than say an automotive paint lacquer which might indeed cause plastics to turn into butter before your eyes! Keep in mind though that Model Master clear gloss 'enamel' will yellow over time. Not really that noticeable on certain colors, not the greatest thing to use over white though. As always though, test on some scrap plastic or a throwaway guinea-pig kit.


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## Ignatz (Jun 20, 2000)

Lacquer thinners are "hotter" than enamel thinners. That's why it's usually okay to put enamel over lacquer and not the other way around. The enamel thinner isn't quite enough to destablize the lacquer film. Generally, painting over acrylics is fine, but there are different flavor of acrylic paints too. Tamiya Acrylic enamels I find don't take well to over painting with enamels, i.e., if I try to apply a wash made with Humbrol or Testor's enamel, the Tamiya acrylic will start to soften and lift off. Over spraying with Testor's Dullcoat seems to work well. I think because the lacquer thinner flashes out before much damage can be done to the underlying layers.


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## Aurorafan (Jun 16, 2001)

This is all great info. A great chemistry lesson. Thanks all.


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## Prince of Styrene II (Feb 28, 2000)

Ignatz said:


> Generally, painting over acrylics is fine, but there are different flavor of acrylic paints too.


There's flavors?!?! 

Dude, I have got to go upstairs & check out my Banana Yellow!!! :roll:


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

If you're using Future, won't you get waxy yellow build-up?


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## Prince of Styrene II (Feb 28, 2000)

Like I said before, I've never had a problem with it in the two years I've been using it. It's fabulous stuff! You can also use food coloring to get tinted parts!

headlights
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff5/Prince_of_Styrene_II/Mach 5 by Sam/DSC04870.jpg
rear window
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff5/Prince_of_Styrene_II/R2 Van at the Fest/beauty2_small.jpg


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