# Why did Karloff stop being Frank?



## hal9001 (May 28, 2008)

Thought some of you *Universal Movie Monster* historians could tell me why Karloff only played the first three Frankenstein monster?

For me, HE was the only Monster. He played that part so much better than those that followed. The way he moved, his gestures and all made the character for me.

To tie this in to this forum I've been buying some really nice resin kits, mostly of Karloff by the way talented Jeff Yagher!

Nothing more than curiosity.

Thanks,
Carl-


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## Mark McGovern (Apr 25, 1999)

hal,

Boris Karloff was extremely grateful for having been cast as the Monster. Prior to that role Mr. Karloff was an up-and-coming stage and movie actor; the only problem was, he was entering his mid-forties and still wasn't being steadily employed. The part of the Frankenstein Monster made him a star.

Always gracious and self-effacing, Boris Karloff said many times that anyone could have played the Monster as well as he did. It was just a stroke of luck that James Whale saw him in the Universal commissary and chose Mr. Karloff for the role. That might even be so, but no one can deny that the success of _Frankenstein_ was due largely to his performance; even more so in the sequel, _Bride of Frankenstein_ (1935).

Universal intended that _Son of Frankenstein_ (1939) should be a quick vehicle to cash in on an unexpected resurgence in movie audience's interest in the horror genre. Director Roland V. Lee saw greater possibilities in the project and turned the movie into a horror classic. Nevertheless, the Monster is comatose for about half the movie and is little more than a pawn in the battle of wits between Basil Rathbone, Bela Lugosi, and Lionel Atwill for the rest of the film.

Boris Karloff said that he could read the writing on the wall, that the Monster would become "an oafish prop", and chose not to degrade the character by playing him in any more films. He was wise to do so, of course. He did get into the Monster makeup twice more, once to take a turn at bat for a Hollywood charity baseball game and again in the 1960s for an episode of the _Route 66_ TV series, titled "Lizard's Leg and Owlet's Wing". But in neither case did he actually play the Monster as a character, more of a celebrity appearance.

However, you will find photos of Mr. Karloff posing in the make up with his wife Helen and Jack Pierce. It was intended for him to appear in a dream sequence as the Monster in _The Secret Life of Walter Mitty_ (1947), and progress got at least as far as Universal permitting MGM to use the makeup and allow Mr. Pierce to apply it. But somehow that scene didn't make it into the final film.


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## hal9001 (May 28, 2008)

Figured you'd be the first to respond Mark, Thanks!

I still maintain you are the Historical Guru of Movie Monsters of the group. That's the way this model geek sees it anyway....

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Carl-


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## Mark McGovern (Apr 25, 1999)

It's like this, hal: when I was 8 years old, I received my first Aurora monster model - the Mummy - as a Christmas present. That pushed some kind of a button, becoming a lifelong monster modeler. You don't spend over half a century at something without learning a lot about it. I can't say that I've contributed anything new to the history of horror movies, just soaked up an awful lot of stuff.

Feel free to turn on the tap anytime... :hat:


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## Zombie_61 (Apr 21, 2004)

Mark McGovern said:


> ...Boris Karloff said that he could read the writing on the wall, that the Monster would become "an oafish prop", and chose not to degrade the character by playing him in any more films...


Except for some all-too-brief moments--when he sees his reflection in the mirror, for example--the Monster had already become not much more than the "oafish prop" in _Son of Frankenstein_. By that time Karloff had become a "bankable" actor, so I think he was indeed wise to discontinue his direct association with Frankenstein's creation.

For me, the thing that made Karloff's performances as the Monster stand out was in the way he made him a sympathetic character to some degree, particularly in _Frankenstein_; he's as much victim as perpetrator. No other actor who has ever played Frankenstein's creation (with the possible exception of Clancy Brown in _The Bride_) has even so much as _hinted_ at this aspect of the character in my opinion. And Karloff does so brilliantly; even under all of that makeup you can see every emotion on his face. Now, I realize some part of that is due to the direction he received from James Whale and Rowland Lee, but in the hands of a lesser actor it could easily have come across as forced and/or overdone.


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## Zorro (Jun 22, 1999)

"Me TV" ran that "Route 66" episode several weeks ago. Lon Chaney Jr. appears as The Mummy, Quasimodo, and The Wolfman as well. It was a hoot! And of course, that episode was a reflection of the "Monster Craze" that was percolating in American Pop Culture at that time (my first Aurora kit was Frankenstein-probably late 63).


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## veedubb67 (Jul 11, 2003)

You can watch it on YouTube complete with original network commercials, just as it was seen a half-century ago!






Along with Mark, my first modeling memory was building the Aurora Monster models (Glow Versions) when I was a wee lad. It's what got me started on my modeling path.

Rob
Iwata Padawan


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

Son of Frankenstein is an interesting film. The monster itself is almost inconsequential and plays a minimal role. Karloff is great given the rather brief bits of screen time he is given. The stars of the show were Rathbone, Lugosi and Atwill. 

SoF was also originally intended to be filmed in color, and some color test footage from the time remain. 

Karloff did return in House of Frankenstein etc. just as a mad doctor, not the monster.


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## Mark McGovern (Apr 25, 1999)

djnick66 said:


> SoF was also originally intended to be filmed in color, and some color test footage from the time remain.


I've also heard that the footage was shot as somebody's home movie. That seems likely, as Karloff is in character for a few moments but then starts clowning around, sticking his tongue out and "attacking" Jack Pierce. But no matter who shot the film for what purpose, this footage is the ultimate resource for modelers who want to paint their Frankenstein Monsters the "proper" shade of green.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3f-zm2jyFo


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## hal9001 (May 28, 2008)

Mark McGovern said:


> "....just soaked up an awful lot of stuff."
> 
> Yes you did! And you must have kept the button too! :thumbsup:
> 
> ...


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## hal9001 (May 28, 2008)

Mark McGovern said:


> I've also heard that the footage was shot as somebody's home movie. That seems likely, as Karloff is in character for a few moments but then starts clowning around, sticking his tongue out and "attacking" Jack Pierce. But no matter who shot the film for what purpose, this footage is the ultimate resource for modelers who want to paint their Frankenstein Monsters the "proper" shade of green.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3f-zm2jyFo


GREAT footage Mark, first time I've seen that!!!! And _THAT_ is why we have *green* Frankensteins....

Thanks much,
Carl-


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## Mark McGovern (Apr 25, 1999)

hal9001 said:


> And _THAT_ is why we have *green* Frankensteins...


Yeah; see, when he was planning the makeup for _Frankenstein_ (1931), Jack Pierce sought a color for the Monster that would photograph as a "dead" gray on black and white film compared to the tones of the other actors. He was really looking for a deathly pallor for black and white photography - I doubt he would have chosen green otherwise - since few corpses are that color under most conditions. Grayish white would have washed out Karloff's features under the bright studio lights, tests were done with yellow hues that didn't provide satisfactory results, either; it was the pale green-gray that made the Monster look deadly pale compared to the other actors.

The publicity people at Universal could see the makeup on set of course. In rendering color images of the Monster for promotional art, they gave him the eerie green color of Pierce's makeup. And that color has stuck with the Monster ever since.


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## starduster (Feb 12, 2006)

And I've red that Mr Karloff was not happy that the monster was in Abbot and Costello meet Frankenstein and thought it was degrading. Karl


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

Wasn't that the most popular of the Frankenstein movies?


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

A and C Meet Frankenstein was less degrading than Lugosi playing the monster...


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## Mark McGovern (Apr 25, 1999)

Boris Karloff had great respect for the Monster, both as a challenging role and a stellar boost for his career. Although the monsters in_ Bud Abbott and Lou Costello Meet Frankenstein_ [(1948); that's the official title] were played straight, he felt the Universal series had reached its nadir when the character was made to appear in an all-out comedy. Mr. Karloff did agree to appear in publicity stills in which he posed next to posters for the film.

Y3a, I think ..._Meet Frankenstein_ is the most popular *Abbot & Costello* film. I agree with Mr. Karloff that the studio shouldn't have put the Monster in a comedy.

Dj and I must disagree on _Frankenstein Meets the Wolf Man_ (1943). Bela Lugosi's performance suffered in large part because he was working with a script that had the Monster blind as he had been at the end of _Ghost of Frankenstein_ (1942). Hence his stiff-armed gait; the Monster couldn't see where he was going. Also as he had at the end of _Ghost..._, the Monster could speak - but his lines that looked good on paper sounded ridiculous in performance and were wiped from the soundtrack.

But watch Lugosi closely at the end of the film. When Dr. Mannering (Patric Knowles) re-energizes the Monster, it grins evilly and goes on a superb rampage. Admittedly, much of the actual fight with the Wolf Man was done with the aid of stunt men. But in his closeups Lugosi put his own terrifying stamp on the Monster.


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## Matthew Green (Nov 12, 2000)

Mark McGovern said:


> It's like this, hal: when I was 8 years old, I received my first Aurora monster model - the Mummy - as a Christmas present. That pushed some kind of a button, becoming a lifelong monster modeler. You don't spend over half a century at something without learning a lot about it. I can't say that I've contributed anything new to the history of horror movies, just soaked up an awful lot of stuff.
> 
> Feel free to turn on the tap anytime... :hat:


 Yup me too. Lifelong monster fan. So much that I opened a Monster themed restaurant. Monster Café Saltillo. Even had my own Boris built for it.


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## Mark McGovern (Apr 25, 1999)

Sounds very cool, Matt. Have you ever given any thought to opening a second cafe in Ohio...?


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## Zombie_61 (Apr 21, 2004)

Mark McGovern said:


> ...Dj and I must disagree on _Frankenstein Meets the Wolf Man_ (1943). Bela Lugosi's performance suffered in large part because he was working with a script that had the Monster blind as he had been at the end of _Ghost of Frankenstein_ (1942). Hence his stiff-armed gait; the Monster couldn't see where he was going. Also as he had at the end of _Ghost..._, the Monster could speak - but his lines that looked good on paper sounded ridiculous in performance and were wiped from the soundtrack...


Bingo. Lugosi took the heat for his performance in the movie because audiences didn't know the studio had decided to remove those character elements after filming had been completed. His career wasn't exactly at a high point before the movie was released (surely one of the reasons he accepted the role), and what audiences perceived as a bad performance didn't help him to regain any real stature in the industry.

Conversely, Lon Chaney Jr.'s performance as Larry Talbot/the Wolf Man is about as good as it gets, and it's one of the reasons I consider _Frankenstein Meets the Wolf Man_ to be more of a sequel to _The Wolf Man_ than to the Frankenstein movies.


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## hal9001 (May 28, 2008)

Matthew Green said:


> Yup me too. Lifelong monster fan. So much that I opened a Monster themed restaurant. Monster Café Saltillo. Even had my own Boris built for it.



I know you had/are to be proud of your restaurant, so howz about some pictures?

And of course Boris too!!

Carl-


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## Matthew Green (Nov 12, 2000)

Alrighty I will post a few...


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## Matthew Green (Nov 12, 2000)

Ooops forgot ole Franky. It is not an exact of Boris but it works for me.


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## hal9001 (May 28, 2008)

Is this still an active business? If so, during Halloween, do you have a Monster Mash? If so, is it a Grave Yard Mash?

And, how do the servers dress? I see you posed for the Franky sculpt!! :lol:

Thanks for the pics, they look good!

Carl-


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