# Tom Lowe on the go?



## SCJ

Haven't seen this posted anywhere yet.......so for those who care, here you go! <Said with a Russian accent> I find this very interesting!





Press Release: June 17th, 2005
Subject: Thomas Lowe



"May 31, 2005 was my last day with RC2. The good news is that I have started a new company called *Round 2*. "



-----------------------------------------
www.SlotCarJohnies.com


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## car guy




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## TX Street Racer

What the hell???  

I could have sworn that when Tom sold JL that he had an agreement/ contract to stay on board with RC2/Ertl to oversee the JL lines for two years.

This news IMHO does not bode well for the much loved JL lines.....ESPECIALLY the slot cars that we ALL love so much. As I recall Tom was one of the major pushers for the slots...and had said that he would continue to push the slots while with RC2/Ertl. With him gone this news can only mean the day we have feared may very well be on the horizon


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## noddaz

Interesting...
I also thought that a "no competition" clause was normal ops in deals like this also.
Of course we do not know what "Round 2" might be either...
And I just can't see Tom posting here to fill us in either..
Scott


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## lenny

TX Street Racer said:


> ...With him gone this news can only mean the day we have feared may very well be on the horizon


 I wouldn't worry too much about the slot car line going away soon. That's pretty much all I can say at the moment...

Dan


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## ParkRNDL

lenny said:


> I wouldn't worry too much about the slot car line going away soon. That's pretty much all I can say at the moment...
> 
> Dan


 hmmmm.... could he be taking the slots with him, and calling them Round 2???

:freak: 

--rick


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## lenny

ParkRNDL said:


> hmmmm.... could he be taking the slots with him, and calling them Round 2???
> 
> :freak:
> 
> --rick


 I highly doubt it. I'm sure he has a no compete agreement against all the product lines that he sold to RC2...


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## sethndaddy

Darn, I would throw away my 11 year retail home depot career aside to work a business with Tom, A shame he's so far away or I would be banging his door down.


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## lenny

sethndaddy said:


> Darn, I would throw away my 11 year retail home depot career aside to work a business with Tom, A shame he's so far away or I would be banging his door down.


 No sour grapes here, but I doubt that the employees from his most recent venture would share your enthusiasm...

Dan


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## AfxToo

That little software company that Bill and Paul formed on the left coast has created over 10,000 millionaires in the last 20 years. Yeah, toy cars and software aren't the same, but there's something to be said for sharing the wealth........


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## TX Street Racer

lenny said:


> I wouldn't worry too much about the slot car line going away soon. That's pretty much all I can say at the moment...
> 
> Dan



Well man, I wish I had the same crystal ball that you do........


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## noddaz

lenny said:


> No sour grapes here, but I doubt that the employees from his most recent venture would share your enthusiasm...
> 
> Dan


Good point...


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## roadrner

Didn't suprise me. Has to be tough working for someone who's killing off the things you brought to the market.  rr


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## lenny

<eom>


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## dlw

Well Dan, I hope you keep on pushing as I too am looking forward to more cars. But RC2/JL needs to take a look at what they have. They need to do other varieties of cars besides 70's muscle. The Can-Am, GT's, and Euro sports cars are eagerly awaited by the slot crowd, too. Would be cool if these kind of cars along with some semi trucks can be sprinkled in when the later series are produced.


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## AfxToo

Dan, great write-up! I didn't realize the production numbers got so out of synch with the demand. In retrospect it makes sense why certain releases seemed to get "dumped" into the market, mostly ending up on E-Bay at fire sale prices. That had the effect of tempering demand. When you see a product being promoted as "limited production" and then see it selling for 1/3rd of the MSRP two months later, the enthusiasm for the next release kind of tails off. 

I've also heard that PM/RC2 created a whole lot of discontent in their dealer network by selling off a lot of stock to "anyone at the back door with a big pocketful of cash" at prices that allowed the product to be sold for less than what other dealers were getting it for at cost. When that stuff started hitting E-Bay buyer's expectations of "fair market value" dipped considerably. I recall more than one dealer vehemently opposing what BBS posters (myself included) were speculating on what the actual production costs of the cars were based on what they were selling for on the market. They were right that cars and cases were being sold on E-Bay for less than their dealer cost. Some dealers quit carrying JL cars forever after that fiasco. But I also see why PM/RC2 did it, they just wanted to get the stuff out of their warehouses. It did tarnish the PM/RC2 reputation and has skewed buyer expectations. 

The next couple of releases are going to be a tough test for RC2. They are trying to make mid-course corrections by limiting production. I've also heard that they are restricting their dealer network. I find the latter hard to imagine. At the same time they aren't shipping an overwhelmingly compelling set of cars in the next JLTO and XT releases. It will be interesting to see how the push to limit production and hold the line on prices sits with current buyers who are used to 50-60% price drop offs on the E-Bay market. If nothing else, I hope they learned the Batmobile lesson and limit the gimmicky BTTF Delorean to a single release and then break the mold. I still see JLTO Batmobiles in all colors gathering dust on hobby store shelves. I think everyone wanted one, in black, but after that the demand was considerably weaker.

I'm still pulling for RC2 to be successful with the slot cars and I've ordered both of the upcoming releases.


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## lenny

<eom>


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## ParkRNDL

Some discussion of the slots end of this over on the diecast board:

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=115336

--rick


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## AfxToo

Maybe Tom will *only *do slot cars. It would be cool if Mattel sold him their slot car product line to bolster the lineup.


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## lenny

AfxToo said:


> Maybe Tom will *only *do slot cars. It would be cool if Mattel sold him their slot car product line to bolster the lineup.


 SOMEONE should buy Tyco, Mattel has certainly no interest in expanding or maintaining the line...


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## ParkRNDL

AfxToo said:


> Maybe Tom will *only *do slot cars. It would be cool if Mattel sold him their slot car product line to bolster the lineup.


 Oh. My. God.

Tyco and Aurora, arch enemies, UNDER THE SAME ROOF! The feud that has raged since the dawn of slot cars... check this picture:

http://www.slotcarthrillart.com/thrill06.htm

Seriously, though, that would be way cool. Probably hoping for WAY too much, but way cool anyway.

--rick


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## TX Street Racer

AfxToo said:


> Maybe Tom will *only *do slot cars. It would be cool if Mattel sold him their slot car product line to bolster the lineup.


Man, if that ain't creepy.......I was talking to Captain Fred on the phone around 7PM and I suggested the same thing to CF..... 

That'd be sweet if it happenned.


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## Captain Fred

Looks like they got a little testy over on the diecast board. There's some interesting reading though. Either way, there is some hope for the future of the slot car line. I wouldn't even think about speculating on anything at this point. I'll just wait in the wings with my controller in my hand.


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## vaBcHRog

Hey Captain,

don't forget your CheckBook 

Roger Corrie


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## okracer

i think that with a track to purchase along with the t jets and xtractions and maybe trying to get them in a big name department store i hate to say it but maybe wally world and i hate wally world with a passion but if they did that i could see slots makeing a major comeback


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## tjetken

I agree with Lenny's post that the pre-RC2 cars were over-produced BUT please let's not forget that Tom Lowe's JL Slot cars gave this "dying" hobby new life. Admit it... Didn't we get excited when we first saw the JL pull back cars for $2.99 at ToysRUs? It was strange seeing pink and lime green cars BUT I collected all of them! I support any company that makes HO slot cars.


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## TX Street Racer

tjetken said:


> I agree with Lenny's post that the pre-RC2 cars were over-produced BUT please let's not forget that Tom Lowe's JL Slot cars gave this "dying" hobby new life. Admit it... Didn't we get excited when we first saw the JL pull back cars for $2.99 at ToysRUs? It was strange seeing pink and lime green cars BUT I collected all of them! I support any company that makes HO slot cars.



Howdy and welcome to Hobbytalk! :wave: 

You are exactly correct.......Tom's JL slots DID so much to revive the HO slot car hobby.If it wasn't for me seeing the JL pullbacks's while my wife and I worked for KB toys I probably wouldn't have really bothered to show much interest in HO slots.


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## AfxToo

The Internet has done more to revive the HO hobby/sport than anything else. 

There have been other vendors (MM, HOD, MEV, RRR) involved in TJet body production. Magnet car racing has remained relatively strong for decades, with the Tyco 440 carrying the load through the 80s and Tomy SG+ giving it a shot in the arm in the early 90s. The current Big 3 race car vendors (BSRT, Slottech, Wizzard) are helping to keep the sport alive today and move it into the future.

I think slot cars will stay about as popular as they are now for at least the next 10-20 years. It's important to get young people involved and interested in the hobby. Finely detailed, good quality, well running products only help the cause.


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## car guy

AfxToo said:


> Finely detailed, good quality, well running products only help the cause.



That's what it's all about!!


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## blackroc

AfxToo said:


> .... It's important to get young people involved and interested in the hobby.


Doing my part. Got a pair of eight year old girls that love racing in any shape, form, or color.


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## dlw

Does Tom Lowe post on the boards? Hopefully he does, sees the support, and continues where RC2/JL left off.


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## tjd241

*Fingers crossed for a win-win outcome...*

_Out on a limb here, but ...._Probably what most JL slot fans DON"T agree with me on is having to do with the death of "Pull-Backs". I for one would have been just as happy if the line hadn't evolved into being actual complete slot cars. Just as long as they at least kept making new bodies through the pull-back line, I would have kept buying them (happily). Price was right, details /scale was good, they were fun to collect, ...I was a happy camper. I feel it was just gravy for all concerned that they actually decided to put a chassis underneath. My hope at this point in time is that the lineage continues in either format. It was/is all good. My only personal "want" is that the Tjet line stay closer to Tjet-scale. I think that line of distinction was beginning to fade with the JL's. Model Motoring, MEV, and others have done it successfully, so I believe it's indeed quite do-able. Is it practical from a manufaturing standpoint? I have no idea. I just love to mix and match and some bodies just turned out to be "puffed up". If X-Traction is pursued as well, let that be the product that takes on the larger scale. Kind of like what happened with Aurora Tjet vs AFX. Maybe that is too much to expect, but that's my "druther". In any event, I too wish *ALL these guys * luck and hope their plans flourish. At this point any progress is better than no progress. tjd


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## AfxToo

In my opinion, the HO hobby would be a lot worse off without the JL slot cars. There's nothing that I hated more than the zero sum game situation that existed when the only show in town was NOS Aurora chassis. There is a limited supply of these and the price keeps going up and up. Pure supply vs. demand economics. I don't want to be at the mercy of the NOS Aurora chassis cartel and the body-only suppliers did nothing to alleviate the situation. Even MM recognized that the days of inexpensive Hong Kong leftovers was coming to an end and produced their own chassis. 

I think a lot of this has to do with how you view the hobby. In my opinion the hobby should be alive and the cars should be used in their role as the low cost toys that they were meant to be. The JL cars fit exactly in that role today. The Aurora cars fit into that same role their heydey. Even the price of the JL cars, adjusted for inflation, is almost exactly the same as the Aurora cars. 

As far as scale goes, no two HO slot cars bodies are the same exact scale. They weren't when Aurora was doing them and they aren't today. If someone has a particular fondness for a particular range of renderings then they can limit their collection to the ones that fall into their own "acceptance criteria." I for one appreciate a more faithful rendering over a crude one, and if the designer stretches the dimensions a little to achieve a better overall result I am in favor of it. There are plenty of Aurora bodies that look very strange and bear little resemblance to the real car they are trying to model. 

Again, these are just my opinions. I am not a purist collector. I mostly buy new cars. Believe it or not I still play with these silly little cars, old ones and new ones, small ones and not so small ones, tail waggers and rail suckers. I don't have that genetic condition that makes one desire a "rare and one of a kind" anything. I have no desire to be buried with my slot cars or have them squirrelled away in my little cave. But I truly appreciate eveyones opinion and I think that we all collectively agree that what we all want is a healthy collection of slot car products and suppliers. If the JL slot cars go away, and nobody is saying they will, the HO slot car world would be a sadder place and take another step towards being a forgotten hobby buried in history.


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## ParkRNDL

tjd241 said:


> My only personal "want" is that the Tjet line stay closer to Tjet-scale. I think that line of distinction was beginning to fade with the JL's. Model Motoring, MEV, and others have done it successfully, so I believe it's indeed quite do-able. Is it practical from a manufaturing standpoint? I have no idea. I just love to mix and match and some bodies just turned out to be "puffed up".


 I've always agreed with this. The old Aurora "formula" (even though there was no official formula, it just seemed to work out like this in general) was that pony cars and sports cars were short wheelbase, muscle cars and big boats were long wheelbase. In my mind, and in Aurora's old lineup, Mustangs and Camaros and AMXs and Corvettes are SWB, and El Caminos and GTOs and Torinos and Galaxies are LWB. Now, I really like the JL Camaro and Mustang and Nova and Barracuda, but they look a little odd sitting next to an Aurora Galaxie, for example. Yeah, I know there were exceptions, notably that the Aurora Beetle and Cobra should NEVER have been LWB, but that's the way it worked out. I like that MEV's Corvair and MM's '69 Camaro are SWB, and I think JL did the right thing making the '67 Corvette SWB... I hope that in the future they continue to make size distinctions like that.

--rick


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## boss9

Hello-

I feel very fortunate to have JL, and others like MM, RRR, and MEV to continue to try and sustain our hobby’s health.
I loved the Pull-backs, and bought every one—including doubles and triples of certain ones. 
As the JL slot history has been well covered, I will just add that I will keep buying any and all slots I’m fond of-including a few from the planned future releases. 
As long as “someone” keeps makin’ em’—I’ll keep buying.

I really hope that never ceases.  


A great thread and informative read-Thank you!


Cheers.....


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## Captain Fred

I resemble what AFX too said. I also like the tail waggers, as well as the rail suckers. I collected most of the pullbacks as spares to spiff up some of my old beaters. I would probably still buy those too if they still made them, especially if they made some of the Bowtie bodies. (I still don't have any of that series yet)
I haven't been thrilled with the overall quality of the JL chassis, but I have some that run really sweet too. Some new slot cars are better than no new slot cars.
My duds have become spare parts and they'll also be the first ones that I use for experimentation or customizing. I'm not as particular about scale, like I was about diecast, as long as they more or less match in size to the ones that are already out. I just like running them. I hope they keep making them in one form or another. I don't care who's name is stamped on them. The more they make, the better. They can dump the chase car idea too. I have kinda gotten caught up in it, but I really hate the whole chase car/scalper game. I feel like it's become a cancer in the diecast hobby. I hope they make plenty of them, so that when I wreck or wear mine out, I can easily replace or repair them. 

I loved slotcars long before I got into diecast. I'm in the process of getting out of diecast. I plan to continue with the slotcars. I'm always looking for more people to race with too. I would love to see the hobby continue to grow. :thumbsup:


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## sethndaddy

My 2 cents..........I don't care about scale much, but I won't be mounting a tyco blazer to a tjet chassis.
About chase cars. My theory doesn't work in the "collector" world, but, years ago when I was a kid collecting Star Wars figures (the first series, not all the stuff coming out these days) If you wanted the "rare/oddball" figure, you had to send proof of purchase of 4 or 5 other store bought figures to get the special bounty hunter figure.
Like I said it wouldn't work in this day and age, because that "rare" figure was free.


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## car guy

Captain Fred said:


> I loved slotcars long before I got into diecast. I'm in the process of getting out of diecast. I plan to continue with the slotcars. I'm always looking for more people to race with too. I would love to see the hobby continue to grow. :thumbsup:



This is exactly where i'm at and have been for almost a year now.

Capn', whick DC where you collecting? Me it was HW's.


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## TX Street Racer

I guess I can't honestly dd more than what's already been said. I agree with AFXToo's opinions and view :thumbsup: 


I mostly enjoy racing Tjets......and I am kind of a stickler on scale/appearance..... BUT, I've also converted a few AFX bodies to Tjets.....so that the wider wheels would tuck inside the wider body for a drag racing look.


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## A/FX Nut

Saw the beginning of this thread before I went to Streator, Illinois last Monday. Tonight is my first peek since then. Very interesting thread. Hit the link to the discussion on the Diecast thread. People got mad over there. The moderator stepped in and closed the thread. Anyway it seems like RC2 bought out Tom Lowe's contract. Last year at the Fest he said he had 2 1/2 years left on his contract with RC2. Oh well we'll just have to wait and see what happens next.


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## AfxToo

That's a not uncommon scenario when a larger company buys out a smaller one. The entrepreneur(s) who made the small company successful often did so without a lot of the bureaucracy that seems to pervade larger companies. When the big company steps in they often see the former leader(s) as a threat to their authority and a loose cannon. They need to assert themselves. On the other side, a big buyout by a well heeled suitor leaves the recipient with a lot of "monetary flexibility" - or more crudely stated, a "massive amount of FU money." It takes little prodding by the buyers, or foot dragging by My Moneybags to get things heated up in the boardroom and for a mutual aggreement to be reached for the old master to leave quietly, with his money fully intact. This is not neccessarily a bad thing either. It often takes a whole different set of skills to launch a successful endevour than it does to sustain one over the long haul.


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## DACSIGNS

Alot of great info and honest opinions here guys-very cool.
I'm like TX in the respect of body scale. Dont care too much about it but wider bods with a taller sides makes a better lookin racecar-stock cars too-not just drag cars.Dragula made us some screw posted afx camaro bods as I mentioned in modeling, and its a great handling t-jet that looks right with the 1 5/16" axles and tire sets ya use in modified chassis cars. Think Im gonna screwpost some too! As racers we need the traditional scales too as we race skinny tire cars, and the JLs have been a godsend to keep us in the "sheet metal" we need. The parts supply is much better due to JL because ya find a warped chassis, that makes excellent parts to stick in a tjet or magnetraction. Not much goes unused even with a "dud"

Enjoyable reading guys- Circle Track DAC


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## Captain Fred

car guy said:


> This is exactly where i'm at and have been for almost a year now.
> 
> Capn', whick DC where you collecting? Me it was HW's.


Mostly the 1:64 JL & Ertl TV/movie and holiday themed cars, JLCC club cars, as well as some of the nicer HWs series, such as Editor's Choice and a few 100%s and commemoratives. I was also picking up odd pieces at garage sales & resale shops. Actually, I started collecting a little of everything. I also have some Matchbox (a few Lesneys and some later promotional stuff) and a few other odd brands. I also had the intention of casting some resin slotcar bodies, so I picked up some misc. diecast that I thought might be easy to start with for that. It started getting out of hand. 

Now I've decided that I have had too many irons in the fire. No more model building either. I just don't have enough time to do it all and I don't have room to keep it all. I'll keep a few diecast as wall decorations, but I won't be buying any more (unless I find a Barris Batmobile ).


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## motorcitytoyz

*Tom Lowe and his new slot car business - "Round 2"*

Hello everyone!

I just received word from my RC2 REP that Thomas Lowe has started his new company called "Round 2" and that ALL the slot car business will be going to him... As part of his exit strategy he is buying the slot car business from RC2...
What this means is that RC2 will no longer be offering slot cars and all future business will be handled by Tom at his new company.....

I just received this noticed from my rep at 5:00 PM EST 


Not sure what this means for the two slot car releases that are due in this week!!!!

I will let you all know more as soon as I get the info.


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## car guy

Good news!?!?!?!


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## dlw

Maybe Tom and Round 2 can get the licensing to do VW's, Mustangs, and other cars to add to our boxes.


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## TX Street Racer

car guy said:


> Good news!?!?!?!


I'd certainly say it is :thumbsup:


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## hefer

WOW!...That is incredible news. Tom, good luck! Thanks to you and all the others who keep this hobby alive & well. Hopefully Mattel will let the TYCO line live on elsewhere.


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## A/FX Nut

This is interesting, I wonder if Lenny will have to deal with Mr. Lowe now to get his Studabakers and Mopars that he was working on with RC2? Well, best of luck to all. I have an awsome idea for a future release of a Tuff Ones series.


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## lenny

A/FX Nut said:


> This is interesting, I wonder if Lenny will have to deal with Mr. Lowe now...


 Yup...



A/FX Nut said:


> ...to get his Studabakers and Mopars that he was working on with RC2?


 I'm just as concerned with getting the Speed Racer set that was started by RC2 for me almost 2 months ago... 

Dan


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## noddaz

motorcitytoyz said:


> Hello everyone!
> 
> I just received word from my RC2 REP that Thomas Lowe has started his new company called "Round 2" and that ALL the slot car business will be going to him... As part of his exit strategy he is buying the slot car business from RC2...
> What this means is that RC2 will no longer be offering slot cars and all future business will be handled by Tom at his new company.....
> I just received this noticed from my rep at 5:00 PM EST
> Not sure what this means for the two slot car releases that are due in this week!!!!
> I will let you all know more as soon as I get the info.


Wow.
What a tangled web this has become.
I hope that this does not set slotcars back too far.
Scott


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## AfxToo

Very interesting twist in the story line! It certainly makes a lot of sense from a business perspective. The retail channel for slot cars is much different than diecasts. I'd imagine that RC2 lives & dies by the buying decisions of the big stores like Wal-Mart and Target. Wal-Mart especially. Diecasts probably cost about 50 cents to produce once the line is up and running. Slot cars have a more diverse, selective, and higher cost production and distribution channel. You'd have a very hard time convincing Wal-Mart to carry slots. That's a death sentence for the slot cars in RC2's mind. 

It will be interesting to see where Tom takes this venture. My best guess is that everything already in the pipeline would remain so and get released as planned. Perhaps some rebranding will take place. I hope the June '05 releases are already on the boat (or better) and we get them soon. After that, who knows? 

Tom obviously has a very keen interest in the Johnny Lightning slot car line after starting it up from scratch and making it what it is today, which is pretty darn good considering everything. I hope he continues to expand the line, but I see the big 12-car high number releases coming to an end. I think we'll see smaller releases, but hopefully more frequent ones.

I've mentioned that adding a third line to the JL family, in the form of a Tyco 440X2 based design (if Barbie Inc. lets it go instead of destroying it through neglect), would be very compelling. Actually, what would be the best overall strategy in my mind would be to clone the 440X2 *narrow chassis* but mold it with an integrated AFX/XT style body mount instead of the original Tyco style. I hate body clips. Call it the *440XT* chassis. That way he would be able to use the existing and new XT bodies on the chassis. I see no business case for Tom making chassis for Tyco body mounting and having to fire up a whole new body fabrication process. 

What to do with the 440XT chassis? Go after the *NASCAR* market of course. Use the TJet and XT lines primarily to promote vintage and classic road and race cars. Use the new chassis to tap into the current trends in racing and attract younger buyers. Whether you love NASCAR or are bored silly by it, it's the most popular and widely supported form of racing in North America and is a healthy market to tap into. Tom could potentially release *dozens* of "new" NASCAR models every single year just to maintain parity with the current NASCAR paint schemes - with only 3 body molds to mess with! If you add in the specialty schemes, and the hauler trucks (yes, I said trucks!), a NASCAR slot car line could go on for as long as NASCAR is around. Putting these on a what I consider reasonable magnet car chassis (the 440X2 is not a super sucker) would make them much more kid friendly. (Of course us need-for-speed types would love them equally well.) But for those of you who like a slippin' & a slidin' the XT style NASCAR bodies would of course mount very nicely on the existing XT chassis. A 440XT would truly be a win-win situation for everyone.

Good luck Tom, we're with you 100%.


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## dlw

I don't think you need a 440x2 clone for Nascar bodies. The XT chassis are fast enough, and remember those race drivers do slow down quite a bit in the turns (they have to or else, of course), and the XT chassis replicate that aspect very nicely. But I do see the point of a kid-friendly chassis........they would get frustrated if they keep flinging their car off every bend.

And I'd like to see some semis................maybe Tom could take my idea of contacting gas companies (Sunoco, BP, Shell), parcel companies (Post Office, UPS, Fed-Ex), and others to have their logos on tanker trucks and tractor trailers. You see how many folks like the Shell tanker and the Ryder semis.


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## AfxToo

Needs... needs? Who said anything about needs? I want them! I don't need any slot cars. The 440XT would be major icing on the cake. This would put Tom Lowe in the extremely unique position of having a compelling product offering in 3 of the most popular HO sectors (TJets, Magnatraction, and box stock magnet cars). Who else could make that claim today? Nobody even comes close. 

I believe there is more opportunity for increasing market penetration by having a wider range of products that target the main sectors. Not having a box stock magnet car in the mix is leaving money on the table by ignoring most younger drivers who prefer magnet cars and not taking advantage of the current situation with box stock magnet cars. The current situation with box stock magnet cars is pathetic: Tyco is AWOL or KIA, Life-Like's bloat bodies ride on a lame chassis that most race organizations disallow, Tomy (Racemasters) releases at most one new body per year, and the legacy Tomy chassis are pretty much disallowed by most racing groups because of the magnets. I'm not bringing up the premium magnet car lines only because of their price and limited appeal on small home tracks.

The door is wide open for a better and readily available box stock magnet car offering. Coupling the 440XT chassis to NASCAR would be a sure winner. The fact that Life-Like sells anything at all is testament to the strength of the NASCAR appeal. Plus any bodies built for the XT format would give the AFX/MT/XT crowd more body selection. Win - win - win, all the way around.

Based on what we've seen from Tom Lowe thus far, he's not afraid to make bold moves and go after new markets. I hope he tries to become a major force in the slot car market and not settle for being yet another niche player for a segment that's constantly shrinking as the echos of the 1960s slot car boom fade away.


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## rodstrguy

Wow, This news is just incredible. Hopefully there will be More, not less in the field of slot cars. I agree that it would be cool if Tom Lowe bought out the Tyco (would they sell it?) or Hot Wheel electric and would have sets to include cars of different appeal to us. I also hope that he (TL) hears us about Semi trucks, I would buy lots. Marketing it in the way DLW says would work great, plus add auto parts stores and I think you could build on even more intrest in slot cars...


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## vaBcHRog

Now what would be most excellent would be for Round 2 to re-releas all the ol Can AM Cars and bring out the new Daytona Prototype for the XT. Then bring out the new Le Mans Cars all on the XT chassis 

Roger Corrie


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## dlw

I'm guessing that Tom also has the rights to the Thunderjet and X-Traction names. If he were to bring on a Tyco clone, what would he call it?

Also, the molds used to make those R3 prototypes that Midtown is e-baying, were they destroyed? Or did they fall in Tom's posession? That McLaren would be a nice debut for CanAm cars in the XT's


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## lenny

dlw said:


> Maybe Tom and Round 2 can get the licensing to do VW's, Mustangs, and other cars to add to our boxes.


 Well, Tom WAS the licensing force behind Playing Mantis. Looking back, JL did TONS of VW's. Maybe he won't have the same 'issues' with VW that RC2 did. Perhaps we'll see them after all...


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## buzzinhornet

lenny said:


> Well, Tom WAS the licensing force behing Playing Mantis. Looking back, JL did TONS of VW's. Maybe he won't have the same 'issues' with VW that RC2 did. Perhaps we'll see them after all...


We can only hope! I'm still bummed about the VW's and Mustangs. 

And looking forward to those Speed Racer cars Lenny! 

GP


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## AfxToo

I do recall someone mentioning many months ago that Tom was suitably impressed with the 440X2 design, like "I gotta do one of those..." Whether it's even up for grabs is pure speculation. Mattel is killing it so they should quit torturing us, give it up, and move on to Barbies and 1:43. 

There was even talk of Tom revamping the Super II chassis .......

Maybe Tom will do a Cigar Box release?

Thunderbikes? Snowmobiles? Good Humor Truck in 16 colors including blue chrome?

Factory painted lexan bodies?

Isn't dreaming on someone elses nickel fun?

It would be very interesting to get the straight skinny from Tom. 

Could turn out to be a cold hard slap back into reality with six more Willys and Chevelle repaints. Or more ... egad... Batmobiles.


----------



## lenny

buzzinhornet said:


> And looking forward to those Speed Racer cars Lenny!
> 
> GP


 Last I heard (today), they are moving right along. 

Dan


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## motorcitytoyz

1) I spoke with my rep at RC2 concerning the two slot car releases that were do in this week and was told that product had not yet arrived. 

2) Mr Lowe has purchased the remaining inventory of slot cars that were already at RC2.

3) The brand names - Johnny Lightning & Playing Mantis were not part of the purchase agreement between RC2 and Mr Lowe so any future slot cars that are released by Mr Lowe will be under a new brand name. 

4) Any slot car project that is in-house at this time and is under contract with RC2 will be honored. 

5) No info as to when and where Mr Lowe will locate his new company, as of yet.

If anyone knows more than this, please post info. I have spent hours on the phone with RC2 trying to get as much info as possible. Maybe if more people call the RC2 main office and ask questions, they will release further info. 

I am willing to support Mr Lowe and his new company in any way possible as long as the product is on time and a better mix of different bodies/chassis. He has the business experience and the know how to do the job right. Make limited amounts and release different cars each time. No re-runs or ten different colors needed!!!! 

Make them and they will buy.........


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## lenny

motorcitytoyz said:


> 1) I spoke with my rep at RC2 concerning the two slot car releases that were do in this week and was told that product had not yet arrived.


 My 2 cents... Send those releases back to China and re-release them with more new bodies, especially that Mopar T-Jet release



motorcitytoyz said:


> 3) The brand names - Johnny Lightning & Playing Mantis were not part of the purchase agreement between RC2 and Mr Lowe so any future slot cars that are released by Mr Lowe will be under a new brand name.


 We know that he has a new company formed called 'Round2'. A website is already registered but nothing is there yet... Curiously, the website was registered months ago, so he must've been thinking along these lines for awhile...



motorcitytoyz said:


> 4) Any slot car project that is in-house at this time and is under contract with RC2 will be honored.


 Certainly good news...


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## dlw

When the website is functional (and it's ok to give to the public), would you post it for us?


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## red73mustang

Yet another twist in the Tome Lowe / Mattel slot car saga....... It appears that Matel, who supposedly killed its H.O. slot car line has jumped back in just in time to tie in with a "Batman Begins" marketing effort. See link
 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=2619&item=5984658164&rd=1 

ebay item: 5984658164
Chet


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## Captain Fred

Good, good! :thumbsup:


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## AfxToo

I wouldn't take this as an indicator of anything. Mattel does seem to rarely pump out some sort of weirdo set like this. It's all part of the whole movie promotion happy meal tie in sort of thing. Stuff made to be played with for 35 minutes and then tossed into the yard sale pile or the trash when junior loses a pickup. The cop car looks okay but the Batmobile is kind of freakish (as it is in the movie). Still it might be fun to have a pair in your collection to document the demise of a once proud slot car brand name.


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## red73mustang

I would prefer that Mattel put out "Racing" sets or even "Motoring" sets with street cars rather than Gimmick sets and cars, but since I am more of a collector, I'm just happy to see something new that I don't already have. These are not "must haves " by any stretch, but neither were the Harry Potter, Batttle Slam, Jurassic Park stuf, but they all seem to have made it into my collection.

Chet


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## WesJY

red73mustang said:


> Yet another twist in the Tome Lowe / Mattel slot car saga....... It appears that Matel, who supposedly killed its H.O. slot car line has jumped back in just in time to tie in with a "Batman Begins" marketing effort. See link
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=2619&item=5984658164&rd=1
> 
> <a href=http://www.dpbolvw.net/click-1606754-2202639 target=_blank>eBay</a><img src=http://www.awltovhc.com/image-1606754-2202639 width=1 height=1 border=0> item: 5984658164
> Chet


oh man.. my 12 year old cousin would love this set!! where can I buy the set?? his birthday is in 3 weeks this would be a awesome gift!!

Wes


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## red73mustang

Not sure where to find the sets Wes, a quick google search on Mattel Electric Racing and Batman only finds 1/43 Batamn vs Superman crap. Seems that only reference to these are the e-bay link I posted earlier that has the set cars only

Chet


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## Mark Hosaflook

If you follow LightningFest at all, you knew the writing was on the wall when no Fest slot car was going to be run this year. This was a sellout every year in the past so I was very surprised and tried to come up with several solutions. RC2 did sell me FF slots riduculously cheap to help the pain but slots never seemed to take off at Fest so I figured maybe they were right.

This has been in the works and I'm glad to see Tom stay in the game in some capacity. After the "no compete" expires.......?


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## Montoya1

It amazes me that:

a) Two companies have both released HO Batman products

b) Neither has got them out in time for the film!!


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## dlw

No Lightning Fest slots? So much for thinking about driving to the 'Fest  . Guess there won't be any more club slots, either. Which means I may not be renewing my membership in the JLCC.


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## rodstrguy

No fest slots and the fact that TL is taking over slots makes it an easy call not to bother with Lightning Fest even though I'm only an hour and a 1/2 away...


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## buzzinhornet

Montoya1 said:


> It amazes me that:
> 
> a) Two companies have both released HO Batman products
> 
> b) Neither has got them out in time for the film!!


I think Hornby/Micro Scalextric did a better job Mattel. 

GP


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## buzzinhornet

dlw said:


> Guess there won't be any more club slots, either. Which means I may not be renewing my membership in the JLCC.


I won't be renewing my JLCC membership! 

GP


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## dlw

A few months ago, there was rumblings about a possible Ford/JL national slot racing program similiar to the race program from the 60's, which helped inspire the Aurora Tub Track.....is that something Round-2 may pick up on (but not the Tub Track)? Big races do happen across the country : The Fray in Ferndale, NJ Shootout, The Quad City Quarrel..... A nationally organized race leading to state/regional finals could big pretty big.


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## JordanZ870

I would like to know how/where to get my hands on those hornbey cars. Any help here would be hot.


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## micyou03

Wasn't there talk about redoing the AFX G-Plus chassis a while back. That would be a great chassis for me and for the kids. I feel it is a little more fun to drive than the 440-X2 and still low maintenance.


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## Mark Hosaflook

rodstrguy said:


> No fest slots and the fact that TL is taking over slots makes it an easy call not to bother with Lightning Fest even though I'm only an hour and a 1/2 away...


Many at the top felt the slot population never backed Fest. The slots did well in bulk sales but if they were sold under the same rules as the Event die-cast there would have been skids left. A small group would buy cases and then resell them later on HT, e-bay, clubs and such. There was a difference between Warehouse support and Fest support. PM wanted to go to an all events based show as the Warehouse Sale was lots of work (a long story). Slots at Fest never seemed to take off so to many the result was not worth the effort. Much of this same mind set was placed on the kit side of things as well.


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## dlw

The main problem was most of the slot crowd couldn't get to the Fest. When leftover Fest cars got to the club E-Store, they didn't last long. Many slotters wanted to go to Fest. They just couldn't get to Mishawaka, IN.


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## AfxToo

I never went to the Fest, even though I could easily get there, because I saw it as predominatly a diecast event. JL is a big enough player in the diecast arena to get enough people to attend an event that's based solely on a single company's products. No single vendor in the slot car market has large enough presense or market share to put together that sort of event. So I never felt left out by not going to the JL Fest.

With that said, I'm a very strong supporter of having a national level slot car convention. Bob Beers put out some feelers a while back about this. I responded directly to him with some ideas, but I don't know how much feedback he got or if he's intending to move forward. He's only one of fairly small number folks who I believe have the widespread understanding of the hobby/industry to organize a national convention. I think SCJ is another, as are any of the fine folks like Joe Bodnarchuk and Brad Bennett who run the bigger shows. But I think a lot of US could help out in the many finer details that would be required to make it work. Whatever is done along these lines, I think the following things need to be considered:

- It should be a fun family oriented event.
- It should be focused on multiple brands and multiple types of cars and tracks.
- It should be in a location that's easy for a lot of people to get to.
- It should be much more than just a big sale, although a big sale must be part of the event.
- How-To workshops would be great. (casting, track routing, tuning, painting, etc.)
- Live demonstrations and hands on test drives would be great.
- Races !!! Many classes, fun oriented, low stake, box stock kind of races.
- Outside vendors should be able to show and advertise their wares, maybe even help support the event through sponsorships.
- There should be at least one social event, like a dinner, to bring everyone together just to meet and greet. Maybe have a guest speaker or entertainment.

This is a very ambitious and far reaching desire. But it's attainable and it's routinely done in other hobby areas.


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## coach61

IS there not a shuge race weekend and show someowhere live band dance and Dinner? thought I saw it mentioned when I reenetered the hobby if its gone ya I would agree you should have one at your place...WEG

Dave


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## Captain Fred

I for one, have never been able to attend the Fest because of the time frame. It is always too close to the end of summer. Not only do I have a couple of school age kids, but I now work for the school district too. Lightning Fest was usually the week before school stated. Now I've pretty much quit collecting diecast anyway. 

If there was a slotcar event, maybe a kind of HT slot Fest, I would want to go. I might be able to if it was early enough in the summer. I've always tried to get together with other local slotheads from time to time. There is an organized group near here, but they are mostly the larger scale cars. There doesn't seem to be too many HO fans around here.


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## TX Street Racer

Captain Fred said:


> There doesn't seem to be too many HO fans around here.



I tell you what bro, there's ALOT of us fellow Texans here on HT........I say we just organise our own slot car event. We could make it centrally located for all of us.....and put the word out to as many of the hobbytown USA(we have one in the Woodlands now),Hobby Lobby, and other independantly owned hobby,model,RC, and toy shops. I'm certain that if we all made an effort to spread the word a few months in advance that it would work.


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## coach61

TX Street Racer said:


> I tell you what bro, there's ALOT of us fellow Texans here on HT........I say we just organise our own slot car event. We could make it centrally located for all of us.....and put the word out to as many of the hobbytown USA(we have one in the Woodlands now),Hobby Lobby, and other independantly owned hobby,model,RC, and toy shops. I'm certain that if we all made an effort to spread the word a few months in advance that it would work.



I'd help! and I"d be there few lads in Oklahoma could make the trip too!


Dave


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## pickeringtondad

*The G scale train community has some lessons to teach here*

There are small shows in and around major cities every few months. Each Area ( East Coast, Mid-West and West Coast ) has a yearly show, (with seminars, dinners, trading nights and three days ( Fri., Sat. and Sun.) of selling ) Once a year there is a National show and it is in a different city every year. The major manufacturers bring their new products to these shows and sell off there old stock at closeout prices.( they clean out their warehouses and you get a great deal ) The G scale industry ( Aristo-craft, Bachman, Usa Trains and LGB ) all attend with support people. These people are selling trains (engines) that sell $200.00 - $1500.00 each. The cars sell for $ 25.00- $150.00 each. The East Coast show was held in York, Pa - Midwest show was in Denver - The west coast show was on the Queen Mary. The National show was in Chicago. This system works because big and little guys all work together. ( people save money all year to attend these shows turning them into events ) Oh yeah, this all started because people were tired of not being able to buy the products they wanted. 

It's time this was done in slots.


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## fordcowboy

Here's my take on the fest. I've been going since 2002 when they first started doing the pull back chassis. 

Every year we were told there would be a LOT of slot car bodies for sale, then a LOT of slot cars for sale at the warehouse. The only thing they had to sell was the fest cars & then you're limited to how many you could buy. 

A lot of people came to buy just slot cars. And there wouldn't be any on the day of the warehouse sale. I know a guy that got to go to the dealer's sale the day before the warehouse sale & bought up ALL the slots. So the day of the sale we didn't have any slots to buy except for the 'fest car (which there was a limit). 

Some of the people running the overall 'fest - didn't treat us slot car guys very fairly either. They'd tell you one thing & do the exact opposite. I won't be going back. I was one of them that wasn't treated on the up & up (and I have the letters to prove it). I have a JL collection that would surpirse most people. And I can add to it without spending money getting to & from a 'fest that doesn't support slots. Or appreciates my help & support I gave to the 'fest.
--fordcowboy


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## rodstrguy

Hopefully Tom Lowe will take his product to shows like the one in Matteson as others do. When Road Race Replicas was at the Midwest show I know I dropped several hundred dollars all in the matter of minutes. The thing is I was waiting in line to do so. So really Fest doesn't mean much because I was correct in assuming there was not going to be much of a slot car availability. I know there were slot car junkies there and by stories told here I also know there was a lot of room to room trading but I wouldn't be able to get there for that. 
All in all, I would sugest Tom Lowe and his new enterprise follow the lead of such Slot car vendors as Slot Car Johnnies, Bud's H.O. cars, Road Race Replica's, and M.E.V.
Please make it to swap meets to get your stuff out there.


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## fordcowboy

The Matteson, IL show is one of the best shows in the US for HO. A LOT of great room to room trading. You can meet Johnnie Clark, Bud's HO, Dan Espisito, Bob Beers, & a lot of other super people. My wife & I go twice a year (no kids), it's a good weekend getaway. The rooms are priced decent, the hotel food is excellent, the show is in hotel, which makes it's a real nice package. I usually spend a $1,000 or so on cars & such. I plan on going back this year. My wife is looking forward to it too. 
--fordcowboy


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## lenny

fordcowboy said:


> The Matteson, IL show is one of the best shows in the US for HO. A LOT of great room to room trading. You can meet Johnnie Clark, Bud's HO, Dan Espisito, Bob Beers, & a lot of other super people. My wife & I go twice a year (no kids), it's a good weekend getaway. The rooms are priced decent, the hotel food is excellent, the show is in hotel, which makes it's a real nice package. I usually spend a $1,000 or so on cars & such. I plan on going back this year. My wife is looking forward to it too.
> --fordcowboy


 When are the Matteson shows?

Dan


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## fordcowboy

NOVEMBER 13, 2005 MIDWEST SLOT CAR SHOW
CHICAGO-MATTESON HOLIDAY INN

US RTE 30 AND I-57

CONTACT: MIKE DORE 847-515-7832


You don't have to spend a lot of money to have a good time. All the guys I've mentioned before are very approachable & more than willing to talk with you. Hope to see you there.
--fordcowboy


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## AfxToo

The Matteson show is definately the best show I've been to. I'd say Richfield is next best. 

But I'm still with pickeringtondad in my belief that there's a lot more that could be done in the way of a convention. Other hobbies and collectors groups do it all the time. Coupling a slot car convention with the kinds of events that I mentioned ealier to a big show like Matteson or Richfield would be like the World Series of slotcars. It has to be about more than just selling. After all, the big sellers like SCJ, and Bob Beers have to have some time to sit back and enjoy the activities too. It can't be all work and no play for them.


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## ParkRNDL

ok, how about the Richfield, OH show? I've been looking for dates and all I found was "Fall 2005"... or maybe one site had it narrowed down to October...

Is this show also big? I could actually possibly drive to this one, where Chicago just ain't gonna happen for me...

--rick


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## fordcowboy

AFXtoo - 
I've had the same thought for several years. Location would be the biggest thing to address. Kansas City, MO would be a good central location. I understand it's cheaper to fly in & out of KC airport than St. L. 

Find an empty WalMart Store - lots of space, lots of parking, always one somewhere for lease since they abandon their stores to build SuperCenters. 

Maybe if you got out in the suburbs a little the city's chamber of commerce would be helpful. They might be able to guide us in the right direction. Tourism is a big thing you know. And there's hotel rooms to sell, resturants to fill, & gas to be had. 

Don't charge the vendors an arm & leg to set up; Keep the public cover charge as minimal as possible ($15 or less). Have lots of tables for selling & trading cars.

Talk to track designers about setting up & promoting some of their items. Use them for races. Get the vendors with timing systems & power supplies to use their goods on these tracks. It wouldn't have to be big companies, in fact you might have better luck with the smaller guys.
Have sanctioned races (road courses, drag, etc.) going all the time. Have some extra tracks for people to just play on & test cars with.

Get some raffles going for tracks, power systems, timing systems, etc. 

Get a local club or two (VFW, Lions Club, Kiawanas, etc) to do food stands. 

Have a couple of guest speakers. (ie - Bob Beers, Tom Lowe, Howard Kilgore, etc.) 

There you have it - a slot car convention.
--fordcowboy


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## triple20

Hey Fordcowboy,how's it going? your just dyeing to get me down there in your neck of the woods aren't you 

tell the wife I said hi and probably see you in November huh?:wave:


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## Captain Fred

I live real close to Houston Intercontinental Airport. I've always wanted to get a group together. I have a nice neighborhood club house that I could rent for $50 a day. One thing that I would want to have before hosting a gathering would be a decent track. I am still running on Tyco with multiple wall warts, usually in my garage. I've been a slotcar collector for several years, but I don't know much about organizing and setting up these kinds of events. Heck, I've never even been to anyone else's.


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## TX Street Racer

Captain Fred said:


> I live real close to Houston Intercontinental Airport. I've always wanted to get a group together. I have a nice neighborhood club house that I could rent for $50 a day. One thing that I would want to have before hosting a gathering would be a decent track. I am still running on Tyco with multiple wall warts, usually in my garage. I've been a slotcar collector for several years, but I don't know much about organizing and setting up these kinds of events. Heck, I've never even been to anyone else's.



Mike, I'd be willing to help build a quality table for us to run on as a group. All we'd need to do is come up with the $$$ neccesary for the materials. Also, I could also probably swing organizing the event to some degree......other help is always nice :thumbsup: 

I just desperately want to see Houston have some outlet for HO guys to pursue thier hobby.


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## AfxToo

It's good to hear some more people thinking about it. I was also thinking St. Louis because of the location. The airport there is kind of a major hassle though. Cost is a big concern, but a hotel or convention center with rooms and meeting areas is probably the best bet. I'm not talking Cobo Hall / Javits Center, I'm talking Holiday Inn, Day's Inn sort of places that have a conference center and rooms for wedding receptions and things like that. The suburbs of a major hub would probably be the best bet, maybe even Matteson (Chicago) or Richfield (Cleveland) piggybacked on the existing shows. I've gone to conventions in other places and the best ones that I've been to were in Denver, Nashville, Atlanta, and places like that but the expenses are high. I go to a very affordable convention once a year in Springfield, OH and it's a large enogh venue with easy access via Columbus and Dayton. Indy is another great place. Just some off the top of my head ideas.


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## noddaz

*Hmmm*

We should increase our numbers...
It should be easy but the logistics may prove impossible.
We should hook up with the 1/32, the 1/43 and the 1/24 people in planning this.
That would require multiple tracks at the show.
Unless Carrera track was used for the larger scales....


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## TX Street Racer

Hey guys, if I might be so bold, maybe I could suggest Houston (or north Houston) as an ideal place for a convention. I know specifically in Conroe (45 miles north of Houston) we have a GREAT convention center.....plenty of parking......and lots of hotels in the area....and great resteraunts. There's also the possibility that one of the Houston area hotels might be a good choice for the show. I know of several around Houston that in the 90's was home to the Houston toy shows.......and again are prime for location.

Also, Houston has one of the largest airports in the country.....and it's easily navigated in and out of.

All this of course would depend upon prices I know......

Also, Houston has a HUGE amount of 1/32 slotters here......or Texas in general for that matter.......along with what I feel may be a large underground HO fanbase. So , if we'd be talking inclusion of all slot car scales then Houston might be an excellent choice.

I'm just not sure how centrally located this would be for everyone......but I do know firsthand about the hotel meeting rooms......there would be plenty of space. How many tables usually are those other slot car shows?? Are we talking 75 tables....125 tables......or 200+???? 

I just want to see this hobby grow.........and if I can help with that then I'm all for it. :thumbsup:


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## dlw

*Four Shows instead of One Big Convention*

Problem here is, there's HO hotspots in several places, but one 'centrally' placed show would put some of the groups out, because of distance. If posibble, instead of one show, 3 or 4 stops in four cities. Say......Richfield, St. Louis, Salt Lake City (this would draw all those fray folks in California), and Baltimore (This could work for those folks in Virginia and NC). Get people who are close to these places to bring a track (or two), notify vendors, racing clubs/groups, hobby shops, and anything else that would help. How's that?


----------



## A/FX Nut

I have to agree with Fordcowboy. I believe that JL didn't support the slotcar side of the fest. The dragstrip was great, but they needed atleast a 4' X 16' or the very least a 4' X 8' oval. In the Fests of 2003 and 2004 JL's slotcars were fairly new and alot of H.O. people were unsure about them. These slots from JL needed more tweaking than the other brands and the original TUFF ONES to get them to run good. Serious H.O. racers were just beginning to race these cars. I think with the right support from RC2 the slots would've grown and more slotcar guys would've made it to the Fest to support the slotcars. I think RC2 should've been more patient. Diecast cars are much cheaper and require less maintenance. Diecast guys outnumber slot guys 3 to 1. There is I feel a good number of H.O. slot people but, we're spread out all over the country. Some areas have higher populations. I don't think one national show will work. My opinion is take the larger ones you have now and incorperate these good ideas into them. Take the Midwest show for example, it could be a 2 or 3 day show. The promoter would have to rent another room for races, how to/tech demos, speakers, and a dinner. Randy.


----------



## AfxToo

I've never felt that PM or RC2 took the racing aspect of their slot cars seriously. When they first came out with the "JL Electric Racing" site and we started hearing about a possible Grand National - type sponsorship, like Aurora did in the 60s, I was extremely pleased. But nothing ever came of it. Maybe with Tom Lowe focused primarily on slot cars he may breathe some life back into that aspect of the hobby. I'd like to see Tom Lowe's new slot car company get actively involved in the racing side. There are a number of major groups racing TJets and MTs. With the proper sponsorships and incentives the JL cars would gain a lot more respect, at least as a feature racing venue if not a full fledged national title level racing series. I would imagine that getting involved with the racing scene would be a ton of fun for someone with a lot of resources at his disposal.

I realize that there are plenty of folks who park their slot cars on a shelf still in their plastic cases, which is basically an expensive diecast. But once PM committed to putting a running slot car chassis under their nice looking bodies instead of those pullback thingamabobs, my expectations were that they would be committed to making them run, and run well. 

Some of the decisions that were made with the JL TJet cars will always be a mystery to me. I may be alone in saying this, but the last Aurora chassis I wanted copied was the TuffOnes. It was a failed attempt by Aurora to get some raw speed to compete with the TycoPro. It ended up being worse, in my opinion, than the regular TJets and WildOnes. The Tuffy was a chronic overheater and with its gearing it was ill suited for short tracks. It did nothing to position Aurora ahead of Tyco performance wise. Why JL copied the Tuffy is very puzzling. Maybe they got some bad advice. 

Another mystery with the JL TJets is the performance oriented parts that just don't deliver. Why did they go to the expense of a tri-lam but then cheap out on the lamination material, very poor balance, and a relatively mild winding? The JL arm has the potential, on paper at least, for being legendary. But after all is said and done the JL arm is no better than a stock 2-lam TJet 17 ohm arm. All the major parts in the JL TJets scream potential, domed brushes, wicked magnets, tri-lam, etc., but they fall well short of their promise. Not that the JL TJets are slouches, but they just don't live up to what you'd expect when you see whats under the hood. The whole is definately NOT better than the sum of the parts.

Nothing pushes a car company to engineer performance into a car more than racing does. The closer Tom Lowe can get his cars to the racing scene, and learn from the experience, the better product we'll all end up with in the long run, at least those of us who run these things.


----------



## Captain Fred

I have only raced in an organized event 1 time, but it was the larger scale cars. I would love to get together and race in a local HO group. I have a little time, a decent controller and quite a few cars to run. I don't have alot of money to put into it though. I have a garage and some track, an old PC that I could turn into a lap counter and my two hands. 

Brian, if you want to get together and persue this, I'm available almost any time. 
Also, if we could even get something happening with HSARC, that would be fine with me. I don't know if I would want to totally depend on them, but I am interested in seeing how a real club works. I just don't have the money to start over with the larger scale cars. We can do our own thing too. I am willing to give some physical effort, along with a few bucks here and there. I've been wanting to get into this for quite a while. I also met a new neighbor who says he's interested in slots. I'm OK with just using my old slightly modified Tyco track to get started. Give me a call whenever you would want to get together. We should start meeting on a set night, at a set time. I was thinking this would make it easier for others who might like to plan to join us. That's the cool thing about HSARC, they meet at a set time at a set place.


----------



## TX Street Racer

Captain Fred said:


> Brian, if you want to get together and persue this, I'm available almost any time.
> Also, if we could even get something happening with HSARC, that would be fine with me. I don't know if I would want to totally depend on them, but I am interested in seeing how a real club works. I just don't have the money to start over with the larger scale cars. We can do our own thing too. I am willing to give some physical effort, along with a few bucks here and there. I've been wanting to get into this for quite a while. I also met a new neighbor who says he's interested in slots. I'm OK with just using my old slightly modified Tyco track to get started. Give me a call whenever you would want to get together. We should start meeting on a set night, at a set time. I was thinking this would make it easier for others who might like to plan to join us. That's the cool thing about HSARC, they meet at a set time at a set place.



Hey man, I am interested in this. My truck project is ALMOST complete.....when I do get it on the road I'll have a very dependable truck that I'll have total confidence in with regard to making road trips. With my Blazer I just don't fully trust it.......if ya know what I mean :tongue: 

I spent a good portion of this past weekend working on my slot car track........mainly prepping the track for screws (which was a bitch....long story) and designing my own power taps..... It shouldn't be much longer and I'll be ready for you to come up and throw some laps down with me bro. :thumbsup:


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## okracer

hmmm you say designing your own power taps come on do tell are ya using some secret process lol let us know whatcha are doing lol


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## buzzinhornet

okracer said:


> hmmm you say designing your own power taps come on do tell are ya using some secret process lol let us know whatcha are doing lol


... and we want hear about "preping for screws" also. 

Do you have a thread going in the track building section? 

GP


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## TX Street Racer

LOL! Hey guys.....nah, no official post in the track section....mainly because I don't have a camera to provide any pics to show the process yet.

Ok, prepping for screws........ On Greg B's site he says to use #3 1/2 in. wood screws.....ya, good freakin' luck finding a #3 wood screw in ANY length. I ended up going with #4 1/2in. wood screws. "Prepping" the track......Greg says to use a machinist's deburring tool to slightly enlarge the hole in the track for the screw head to recess just below the track's surface. I ended up needing to open the hole up a little bit larger......so I used a 1 inch spade boring bit....and only let the point of the bit go into the track a bit. I can tell you that this IS tedious work......too deep and you're screwed... I spent several hours doing this. These screw heads will eventually be floated smooth with bondo and the entire track painted......

For my own power taps.....well, my method involves soldering wire directly to the rails on one piece of track.....but I also ended up having to remove some of the track plastic from underneath to give me clearance.......and the piece that joins the power tap also had plastic removed for clearance purposes......but you won't be able to tell from the top side......and everything is going to be soldered together and screwed down....so no worries about movement.


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## noddaz

It's a long involved process with a Dremel, a good soldering iron, solder and flux...
(Ok, it's not that bad. It just takes some practice...)
Scott


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## ParkRNDL

AfxToo said:


> Another mystery with the JL TJets is the performance oriented parts that just don't deliver. Why did they go to the expense of a tri-lam but then cheap out on the lamination material, very poor balance, and a relatively mild winding? The JL arm has the potential, on paper at least, for being legendary. But after all is said and done the JL arm is no better than a stock 2-lam TJet 17 ohm arm. All the major parts in the JL TJets scream potential, domed brushes, wicked magnets, tri-lam, etc., but they fall well short of their promise. Not that the JL TJets are slouches, but they just don't live up to what you'd expect when you see whats under the hood. The whole is definately NOT better than the sum of the parts.


 Stinkin' emission controls... :tongue:

sorry I was feeling goofy

--rick


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## AfxToo

I used a reamer/countersink tool like shown on this page and it worked like a charm. (http://www.toolpeddler.com/130.htm) I used #4 brass screws that I got in 50 pack boxes from McMaster Carr. They were much much cheaper than buying them out in town, comparable in price to zinc plated steel. My rationale for using brass was to not interfere with traction magnets, but that's probably not a real big concern. I've been on plenty of tracks with steel screws and it's not a problem.

I soldered my rails by drilling a hole next to the rail (on the inside) all the way down through the track and table. I then ran the pre tinned wires up through the hole and soldering it to the rail. I filed anything that stuck up too far. Before soldering I cleaned up any residual plastic on the rail and wire brushed and filed it until it was shiny. I cleaned everything with alcohol before applying the flux and soldering the connection. I used an alligator clip to keep the wire from falling back down through the hole while I was soldering it to the rail.

I like being able to see the solder connections from the top. If there's ever a problem with a connection I can see it and fix it from the top of the table without having to remove any track pieces. If you have a problem with a connection that you can't see you are going to be pulling out your hair and pulling up your track to fix it. The tradeoff is seeing the connections, which may be an issue if you are a stickler for perfection. I guess you could fill the holes.


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## lenny

AfxToo said:


> Another mystery with the JL TJets is the performance oriented parts that just don't deliver. Why did they go to the expense of a tri-lam but then cheap out on the lamination material, very poor balance, and a relatively mild winding? The JL arm has the potential, on paper at least, for being legendary. But after all is said and done the JL arm is no better than a stock 2-lam TJet 17 ohm arm. All the major parts in the JL TJets scream potential, domed brushes, wicked magnets, tri-lam, etc., but they fall well short of their promise. Not that the JL TJets are slouches, but they just don't live up to what you'd expect when you see whats under the hood. The whole is definately NOT better than the sum of the parts.


 I've heard that the JL pickup shoes are copper but they are plated to prevent tarnish and corrosion. But then I've heard that the electrical connectors on the underside of the chassis are either nickel or brass (which has about 1/5 the conductivity of copper...). Is this true? Is the plating on the arm comm plate also Nickel or brass?

Dan


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## Manning

TX Street Racer said:


> .........On Greg B's site he says to use #3 1/2 in. wood screws.....ya, good freakin' luck finding a #3 wood screw in ANY length. I ended up going with #4 1/2in. wood screws...... .



McMaster Carr to the rescue......

#3 by 5/8" screws, part # 90006A098. $3.22 per 100. I wish they were philips head though....... I had to deburr the slot on many......

http://www.mcmaster.com/

McMaster is great for all kinds of hard to find items.........


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## TX Street Racer

Manning said:


> McMaster Carr to the rescue......
> 
> #3 by 5/8" screws, part # 90006A098. $3.22 per 100. I wish they were philips head though....... I had to deburr the slot on many......
> 
> http://www.mcmaster.com/
> 
> McMaster is great for all kinds of hard to find items.........



Nah, I snagged the #4 screws for 2.77 per 100 already....and my track is ready for these screws :thumbsup: 

Thanks for the headsup though....I'll keep it in mind for anyone else that I come across who's building a track.


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## A/FX Nut

lenny said:


> I've heard that the JL pickup shoes are copper but they are plated to prevent tarnish and corrosion. But then I've heard that the electrical connectors on the underside of the chassis are either nickel or brass (which has about 1/5 the conductivity of copper...). Is this true? Is the plating on the arm comm plate also Nickel or brass?
> 
> Dan


Lenny, you and AFX TOO I believe are on to something about the electrical on these JL Tuff Ones. I think it is not just the pick up shoes but also the metal used to deliver the electric current from the pick up shoes to the brushes. MTYODER took desoldering braid, cut 2 slots in a JL Tuff Ones chassis and ran the braid through to the comm and to the rail of the track. You wouldn't believe the increase in performance. :thumbsup: If I could find some of the rivits used to mount the electrical to the chassis, I'd make a switch with a standard T-Jet chassis and a JL-TO Chassis. Just to experiment and compare performance. Randy.


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## AfxToo

Yes, copper is an excellent conductor, better than gold or silver. The only reason you see silver and gold plated copper contacts on highly critical electrical connections is because silver and gold do not form an oxide layer nearly as much as copper does. A silver or gold plated copper connector is the best of both worlds, but even copper by itself is darn good.

Running a shunt wire directly from the pickups to the brush springs increases the current carrying capacity even more than just using copper electricals. The shunt bypasses the mechanical connection at the shoe hangers and futher reduces resistance by providing parallel current paths. This is a must for drag racers but for everyday runners shunts make it a hassle to change pickups. On the JL cars a mini shunt (shuntlet?) could be made from wire wrap copper wire (or braid) to provide an alternate path across the poor JL chassis electricals. This would still give you a performance boost.

Tweaking slot cars is fun.


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## 2.8powerranger

i took an old magna traction chassis ,popped the rivets out from the inside and removed the copper perches and brush perches.then removed the ones from the j/l t/o chassis,then dremmeled the groves for the magna car electricals to fit the j/l chassis.i had to re-use the rivets ,but it worked,i used old copper ski shoes ,the afx springs are a little to stiff though.
i think the ideal would be to fab some shoes from some thinner copper that would flex about as much a a spring,then solder it to the spring perch,then solder a braid to the shoe for the contact surface. then use some good copper springs and brushes for the arm ,or try the springer motor trick.i even thought about a thin layer of epoxy between the comm plates ,then lihgtly sand the epoxy till you have one perfectly smooth comm plate to accomadate running springs and no brushes,i just havnt got that brave yet. :thumbsup:


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## hartracerman

I beg to differ in one point. Gold and silver are better conductors than copper, they have more free electrons. Imaagine if you could afford the price of the 2 compared to copper. Simply put copper is the cheapest and more common to get the job done. If you're a serious racer, you would be looking into this cause every fraction counts. I'm not trying to ruffle any feathers but someone with a more scientific backround may be able to explain this a little better


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## lenny

hartracerman said:


> I beg to differ in one point. Gold and silver are better conductors than copper, they have more free electrons. Imaagine if you could afford the price of the 2 compared to copper. Simply put copper is the cheapest and more common to get the job done. If you're a serious racer, you would be looking into this cause every fraction counts. I'm not trying to ruffle any feathers but someone with a more scientific backround may be able to explain this a little better


the electrical conductivity of gold is 65% that of copper. silver is better than copper, but both silver and copper oxidize (corrode) more readily than gold. Here's a website that lists the electrical conductivity of some more common metals. It uses annealed copper as the base (100) that all others are compared to. That's why you see silver at 105, it's slightly higher than copper. Gold is a distant 3rd, and just slightly ahead of aluminum and chromium. This table doesn't go into many alloys.

http://www.hrsb.ns.ca/program/eqa/curriculum/eng/science/9/SupplementaryPages/MetalsElectConductivity.htm


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## vaBcHRog

You are correct Lenny. Gold is used a lot in aircraft as contacts for relays where any oxidation willcause pitting also every aircraft connector that I repaired or replace on the more modern Fighters was gold plated. Naval aircraft have a tendancy to corrode. Some of the older where silver. You know waht fun is replacing a 200 pin connector that burned up on the flight deck at night in the North Atlantic in the dead of winter. Oh and lets not for get you are in darken ship with red lense flash lights. Now that Fun Now almost all the wiring in an Airplane is Aluminumn for weight savings.

Roger Corrie
Virginia Beach, VA

Roger Corrie


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## noddaz

*wOW...*

Wow...
In comparsion
nickel SUCKS....  
BTW, has anyone figured out what was used on the com plate on JL armatures?

Scott


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## lenny

noddaz said:


> Wow...
> In comparsion
> nickel SUCKS....
> 
> Scott


 No kidding... You could almost make the connectors out of lead and get performance just as good as nickel, plus you lower your center of gravity...


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## AfxToo

Yes, pure silver is a slightly better conductor than copper. It's very rare however that you'll find pure silver used as a conductor or even as a plating in consumer applications. More often than not it's mixed with tin or some other metal. Pure silver is less malleable than copper and would not work well for anything that needs to remain flexible. 

Gold, which doesn't oxidize, is a better conductor than silver oxide which is a better conductor than copper oxide. Gold is extremely malleable and temperature insensitive. These reasons are why circuit board connectors tend to be gold plated. 

What this means in slot car land is that we need to be very concerned about the places where conductors mate (contact surface) because that's where the majority of the losses occur. After that we should be concerned about the conductivity of the metal conductors. When all things are considered, including cost and wear, it's very hard to beat copper as the best overall material to use for the chassis electricals on a slot car.


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## BatToys

If Tom make slot cars, I hope he makes them hyper-detailed.

Today's slot cars look very simple. Remember the old Aurora HO Batmobile that was very accurate? Not referring to the K&B Aurora Batmobile that was not as detailed.

I hope Tom makes the Batman Begins Batmobile that is as detailed as a model kit.


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## lenny

BatToys said:


> I hope Tom makes the Batman Begins Batmobile that is as detailed as a model kit.


 It won't happen at all, Mattel holds the license...


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## SJM

Wow, disappear for a few years and look at all that happens!


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