# Enterprise-A Forward Observation Lounge



## GSaum (May 26, 2005)

One of the things I love about Trek 5 (and trust me, there are few of them!) is the room referred to as the Forward Observation Lounge. It was the room which had the steering wheel in it, and the room in which much of the drama of the film took place.

My question is this: does anyone know where in the saucer hull this room is located? The film suggests its at the very front of the saucer, much like Ten Forward on the Enterprise-D. However, there are no viewports on the filming model. I always assumed this was an oversight, one of many, on the part of the post-production team. However, I've never seen this issue addressed. The reason I bring it up is because I'm interested in making a custom addition to my 350 Enterprise by including the Forward Observation Room, or at least a hint of it by sticking a small printout in from of a custom made window. Has anyone here covered this issue before?


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## Landru (May 25, 2009)

I always just thought that it was a room with a viewscreen since there are no windows like it on the model.


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## Dr. Brad (Oct 5, 1999)

It's located somewhere in the mind of director Bill Shatner - just like all those extra decks in the rocket boots scene (in the ship)!


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## Paulbo (Sep 16, 2004)

I haven't been able to watch it again since it first came out, but didn't they use the Enterprise-D's conference room for that lounge?


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## uscav_scout (Feb 14, 2007)

In a set of deckplans from cynus-x1, that I downloaded (for my own personal use) showed the forward observation lounge on the same level as the rec deck (G deck, level 7) but at the forward left veiew ports (directly opposite of the rec area)


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## ClubTepes (Jul 31, 2002)

Dr. Brad said:


> It's located somewhere in the mind of director Bill Shatner - just like all those extra decks in the rocket boots scene (in the ship)!


True that.

Unfortunatly, the director usually gets what he wants, even if it makes no sense.

Never let reality stand in the way of a good story.


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## GSaum (May 26, 2005)

*Well...*

In this case, I'll side with the director. I really thought that room was one of the coolest parts of the ship.

So, I'm tempted to add a bay of windows to my E-A at the front of the saucer for the Forward Observation Lounge. I know its not canon, however I am reminded of the fact that it was several years before they altered the Enterprise-D model to include Ten Forward (for seasons 2-5, there were no windows on the front of the saucer!) Perhaps the same could be said of this room in the Enterprise-A...it's there, they just forgot to account for it in the model.


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

The layout of the interior and exterior were never accurate on the refit. 4 torpedo bays were indicated in STII, the only place for the turbo shaft to go through the dorsal is taken up by warp core and so on. Just enjoy your model and make it your own. The Enterprise did not have 78 decks but mayby the windows at the bow of the saucer had shields that closed and every time we saw the model shots, they were shut?!


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## WarpCore Breach (Apr 27, 2005)

ClubTepes said:


> True that.
> 
> Unfortunately, the director usually gets what he wants, even if it makes no sense.
> 
> Never let reality stand in the way of a good story.


Problem here is that it wasn't even a very good story even by a loose interpretation of a 'good story'!

I only like elements of _ST:V_, all them having to do with aspects of the "new" _Enterprise-A_. None of that includes the parts where Scotty is working furiously to fix a sub-standard ship. Starfleet should be ashamed of letting that ship be commissioned in that state.

It's not an easy movie to watch or keep watching.


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## Bobj812 (Jun 15, 2009)

Well, ST:V did have a nice teaser opening like TOS. That was kinda cool. Kinda...


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## charonjr (Mar 27, 2000)

I say go for it. There's absolutely no reason to not put large view ports at the front of the saucer. There's plenty of room. If you did three of them, it would be a reflection of the TOS Enterprise.


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## GSaum (May 26, 2005)

*Thank you!*

Charonjr, I think you read my mind! Now, how will I show the interior? Hmmm... Will I even need to worry about it? Will the windows be big enough to see any detail? Questions, questions, questions...


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## Magesblood (May 12, 2008)

maybe, and I'm just spitballing here but it could be that one of the sets of windows on the side of the saucer was sort of forward-facing. It could be that the windows are oriented towards the front of the ship to provide a front-facing view.


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## GSaum (May 26, 2005)

Maybe, Magesblood, but the name "Forward Observation Lounge" seems to imply that its at the very front of the ship.


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## bigjimslade (Oct 9, 2005)

GSaum said:


> My question is this: does anyone know where in the saucer hull this room is located?


My experience with the computer model makes me chuckle at questions like this....because....the Enterprise interior is like that of the TARDIS.

Very little of the exterior matches up to the interior.

Compare the relative sizes of the arboretum, lounge and rec deck windows to their depiction in the films/"official" documentation.

For the rec deck windows to be as tall as they are in the film, they would have to be about 1/4" high on the 1:350 model. And there is no way for the rec deck, as depicted, to fit inside the saucer.

If you use the rec deck windows as a baseline, the lounch windows work out to be something like 50 feet high.


That is why I have no intention of every expanding the computer model to include any interiors beyond that visible through the large openings.


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## GSaum (May 26, 2005)

Ok, I'm reviving this thread because I am working on my 350 Enterprise-A that I plan on building as an homage to Star Trek 5 (a bad movie that I love). Does anyone know if there is an aftermarket kit of the forward observation lounge seen in the film? If not, I might actually attempt to make one from scratch!


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## GSaum (May 26, 2005)

Here's the room I'm referring to:

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/gallery/factfiles/1701a-observation.jpg

Edit: I've removed the picture and inserted a link to the original.


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## Garbaron (Apr 23, 2004)

I dont think there is. Besides you would not see much through those tiny saucer rim viewports.
You'd waste time and energy on something you won't even be able to look at ... I build the REC deck for my Refit and because 
the nacelle is in the way you have no clear view to look in to the windows to see it.


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## charonjr (Mar 27, 2000)

Gsaum, what scale are you doing this in? I re-read the thread and didn't see anything there. I think 1/350 would be good, as it gives you much more flexibility in building the forward lounge and making it viewable. The windows are deck high and rectangular to boot. The nice thing is you can choose how tall that deck is.... I'm not aware of any garage kits, but maybe the Rec deck photo-etch could be adapted. Have you drawn up a set of plans for the Forward Lounge? This is a cool project!

Looked at that drawing and I could swear remembering the Forward Lounge being two to three floor to ceiling high windows wide. Not the small-large-small as in the drawing. I'll have to pop in my laserdisk of ST V to double check. i just remember Chekov and the Klingon lady with the "vonderful muscles' headed off into the other segment of the lounge.


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## Paulbo (Sep 16, 2004)

charonjr said:


> Gsaum, what scale are you doing this in?...





GSaum said:


> Ok, I'm reviving this thread because I am working on my 350 Enterprise-A...


I have not seen any aftermarket kit of the observation loungel


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

There was a link last week to a fan edit of the ST5 SFX - fixing the shots which just did not work well in the film. One was a slow pan up to the front (port) of the saucer and into the Observation Room where Spock was standing. He did leave the view ports as in the model so they were not rectangular bu tit looked good.
I had always pictured them in the forward section of the B/C Deck behind some retractable covers...


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## GSaum (May 26, 2005)

Richard Baker said:


> I had always pictured them in the forward section of the B/C Deck behind some retractable covers...


That's an interesting idea. I had never thought of this room being on the b/c deck. However, I don't think I'll go that route.

My plan is to put it right in the very front of the saucer. While not screen accurate, when you watch the film it's pretty obvious from the stars flying by that it is in the forward part of the ship. Because the forward facing view ports on the model are small and circular and more like portholes than the giant rectangular and square windows of the set, my plan is to drill out new windows in the front of the ship. 

I think I remember reading somewhere that the plan was to alter the filming model to accommodate this new room, but ultimately it wasn't done due to the limitations of the visual f/x budget (not to mention the limited skill of Bran Farren's fx company) I like the idea of the windows in the front as, first of all, it matches the set. However, it's something else that visually sets this ship apart from the Refit, aside from the paint job.


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## GSaum (May 26, 2005)

charonjr said:


> Gsaum, what scale are you doing this in? I re-read the thread and didn't see anything there. I think 1/350 would be good, as it gives you much more flexibility in building the forward lounge and making it viewable. The windows are deck high and rectangular to boot. The nice thing is you can choose how tall that deck is.... I'm not aware of any garage kits, but maybe the Rec deck photo-etch could be adapted. Have you drawn up a set of plans for the Forward Lounge? This is a cool project!
> 
> Looked at that drawing and I could swear remembering the Forward Lounge being two to three floor to ceiling high windows wide. Not the small-large-small as in the drawing. I'll have to pop in my laserdisk of ST V to double check. i just remember Chekov and the Klingon lady with the "vonderful muscles' headed off into the other segment of the lounge.


I'm going to install this in my 1/350 model. I haven't built a 350 version of this ship yet, and my ultimate goal is to build a version of the Refit as seen in the drydock in TMP. I'm hoping this project will allow me to better prepare for that ultimate project.

Regarding the accuracy of the drawing (it's not mine), I'll have to rewatch the film. And, you're right, I too seem to remember Chekov and Sulu walking into a "side lounge" area. If the actual set is wider, then I'll make those changes.


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## GSaum (May 26, 2005)

Update

Instead of watching the film, I looked up some of the screen caps. Here you can see that the room isn't as wide as we might have thought:

http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tffhd/ch6/tffhd0691.jpg

You can see in this shot that the alcove in question really isn't more than maybe 10 feet deep. The four large pillars in the middle of the room give the illusion of a larger separate space, which is all movie magic:

http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tffhd/ch14/tffhd1994.jpg

It would seem the drawing from Ex Astris is pretty spot on.


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

Ex Astris blocked the hot-link in your post- can you post the full link so I can see what you are referring to?


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## swbell3 (Jun 6, 2005)

In case anyone wants to see a version of STV that is actually enjoyable to watch, try this link:

In Thy Image

A fan who is also a professional film editor removed all the skeezy plot elements, tightened up the pace, and structured it like a 1-hour episode (teaser, act 1, act 2, etc.)

Other than the crappy effects from the movie, it's actually quite an enjoyable thing to watch!


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## GSaum (May 26, 2005)

Paulbo said:


> I have not seen any aftermarket kit of the observation loungel


Nope, me neither, which means I'll have to scratch build it.


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## GSaum (May 26, 2005)

*Location of lounge revealed!*

Well, I contacted the Okudas (Mike Okuda worked on Trek 5) and asked them if the forward edge of the saucer was the location of the forward observation lounge seen in the film. Here's his response:

"You are correct. The observation lounge was planned to be on the front edge of the saucer rim. If you look at the motion perspective of the stars seen through the windows, you can see that this is the case. During preproduction, the producers planned to have the ship model modified to add these windows, but as the budget was finalized, it became clear that this was not possible. We regret the omission, but the windows are relatively small in relation to the ship, so the change would not have been visible in many shots."

So, there you have it folks! Looks like I've got some drilling to do!  Now, if only I could find a 1/350 scale ship's wheel!


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## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

You know, we've got people here with crazy insane skills, I suspect if one asked nicely and offered some money one of these people could craft a nice 1/350 ship's wheel for you.

Hey, why not? People are MAKING WORKING SWIVEL CAPTAIN'S CHAIRS for their TOS Enterprises...


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## Kremin (Sep 26, 2012)

for the ship's wheel i would have thought there would be one in a PE set some where if not how about the side of a hose reel from one of the 1:350 scale ships PE?


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## GSaum (May 26, 2005)

Kremin said:


> for the ship's wheel i would have thought there would be one in a PE set some where if not how about the side of a hose reel from one of the 1:350 scale ships PE?


Actually, I've thought about picking up a PE set for a future-purchase 350 Titanic.


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## GSaum (May 26, 2005)

Paulbo said:


> I have not seen any aftermarket kit of the observation loungel


Nor have I. It would make an interesting addition!


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## vulcangodoffire (Oct 7, 2009)

:) Now said:


> there are 350 scale pe sets for tall ships where you can get them. you can even get a wood carved one or take a pe and dip it in resen dry and redip. and there you go


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## MOSUGOJI (Oct 26, 2010)

GSaum said:


> Well, I contacted the Okudas (Mike Okuda worked on Trek 5) and asked them if the forward edge of the saucer was the location of the forward observation lounge seen in the film. Here's his response:
> 
> "You are correct. The observation lounge was planned to be on the front edge of the saucer rim. If you look at the motion perspective of the stars seen through the windows, you can see that this is the case. During preproduction, the producers planned to have the ship model modified to add these windows, but as the budget was finalized, it became clear that this was not possible. We regret the omission, but the windows are relatively small in relation to the ship, so the change would not have been visible in many shots."
> 
> So, there you have it folks! Looks like I've got some drilling to do!  Now, if only I could find a 1/350 scale ship's wheel!


I always just figured that most of the time when seen from the outside the windows were covered by the collision panels like the observation ports around the flight deck were in Mark of Gideon.


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## GSaum (May 26, 2005)

MOSUGOJI said:


> I always just figured that most of the time when seen from the outside the windows were covered by the collision panels like the observation ports around the flight deck were in Mark of Gideon.


Interesting idea, but it doesn't fit in with the fact that there are portholes all over that ship that aren't covered.


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## charonjr (Mar 27, 2000)

Re-reading the thread, including the Okuda comment, I think the best idea may be to place those three windows in the upper rim front of the saucer. Just by themselves! It would echo the three windows on the TOS E, and Okuda's statement that they would be hardly noticeable from most angles suggests to me that they are not part of a larger array of windows like the rest around the rim.


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## GSaum (May 26, 2005)

charonjr said:


> Re-reading the thread, including the Okuda comment, I think the best idea may be to place those three windows in the upper rim front of the saucer. Just by themselves! It would echo the three windows on the TOS E, and Okuda's statement that they would be hardly noticeable from most angles suggests to me that they are not part of a larger array of windows like the rest around the rim.


Yeah, that's my thought too. They would certainly have to be larger than the portholes because on the set they are floor-to-ceiling windows.


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