# Routing Sintra (expanded foam)



## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

Getting ready to try my hand at routing a track out of sintra.
I've read as many posts as i can find,but there's not as much info on routing Sintra(expanded foam) as there is MDF.
What i'm curious about is using water as lubricant while routing,has anybody tried it.
I'm doing all the routing outside,with easy axcess to a garden hose,and i'm wondering if it's a worth while lubricant to use during the routing process,or is it a bad idea to use water as lubricant on Sintra


Not that kind of lube King:wave:


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## wheelszk (Jul 8, 2006)

I think I would be afraid of electric shock.:freak:


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## slotcarman12078 (Oct 3, 2008)

I'm thinking the same thing. I would assume you would need some sort of cooling, or a low speed router to keep things from melting...


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## smalltime (Jun 3, 2006)

No water!
This a major electrical hazard. No water!

I've routed three tracks from Syntra. The best thing I can tell you is to get the proper cutting tools. My best results came from a .062 solid carbide, straight, 2 flute milling cutter. I have also had good results from a 1 flute PCB cutter.

As far as cutting fluids go, I would use none. Maybe a little wd-40 would be ok, but mostly compressed air is the ticket. If you can get an air blast on the tool, it works great. Cools the tool and the material. The main problem you will have is the syntra melting, and not cutting. Keep the tool and the synra cool. This means taking your time, and don't go at too fast a feedrate.


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## tossedman (Mar 19, 2006)

You shouldn't need anything Rick. A vacuum will be handy to clean up the mess. Go the right speed and you'll have no melting just lots of black swarf all over the place. Make sure you've got a sharp bit. The milling bits work great, I'm sure Ted set you up with some eh.

Todd


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

Todd yup Ted set me up with new milling bits.
I was looking at building the same vacumn attachment you have on your router,but i like Tims air tip too.

Tim thanks for the air tip,might have to see what i can rig up from my compressor :thumbsup:


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## joegri (Feb 13, 2008)

hornet keep us up to date with routing the sintra project. i have routed 2 out of the mdf and have been daydreaming about tryin my hand at a sintra trak. i,m curious about the speed needed to route. should the router be spinning at full speed or slowed down ? mdf is a inexpensive way to go and if ya mess up it,s kinda easy to fix.will the sintra do the same?anyway good luck!


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## tossedman (Mar 19, 2006)

Rick, the compressed air's a good idea. If you get it aimed right at the slot you've just cut hopefully it can clean the swarf right out and save you the trouble of doing that later. Should keep the bit cooler as well although I haven't had any trouble with melting when I've routed Sintra.

I'll have to pop over and see what you've got so far. Are you going to use the square weed whacker line as lock wire? I think I picked up a 0.080 bit that might work well with that. I'll have to check, my memory isn't as good as it once was. :freak:

Todd


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## smalltime (Jun 3, 2006)

joegri said:


> hornet keep us up to date with routing the sintra project. i have routed 2 out of the mdf and have been daydreaming about tryin my hand at a sintra trak. i,m curious about the speed needed to route. should the router be spinning at full speed or slowed down ? mdf is a inexpensive way to go and if ya mess up it,s kinda easy to fix.will the sintra do the same?anyway good luck!


Flat out, foot in the firewall.
If you do the math, for .062 milling cutter, the speed would be around 50'000-70'000 rpm, and a feed of 6-8 inches per minute.

On the melting front, the "swarf" is what does the melting. If it can't get out of there, it "chipwelds" onto the cutter, and then melts the trench instead of cutting. If you start with a slow feed, and ramp up gradually, you will find the sweet spot.

It is also a good idea to have an apprentice, or helper to keep track of the cord, and the airline, if you're using one. Once you start a cut, you will want to complete it, without stopping.

Good luck
LMK if I can help in any way.
:wave:


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## Tsooko (Oct 15, 2009)

If you mean cutting at a high router rpm, you are dead wrong.
Sintra needs to be routed at a low rpm and a low feed rate. I use a Ridgid, model # 2401 trim router turned right down and carbide milling bits, not regular routing bits. I get mine at a machinists supply shop called Thomas Skinner. Harvey Tools has the right stuff too. Five sintra tracks so far and more in mdf. Hand routed and cnc routed. The cnc is set at 16000 rpm and about 20" per minute feed rate. slower feed rates are better as the swarf does not get packed into the slot making it easier to to clean out the slot.
You can fix sintra mistakes with JB WELD or epoxy resins.
Ted


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## smalltime (Jun 3, 2006)

Please dissregard my earlier posts.

I was dead wrong.

:wave:


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

Hey,i'm a sponge i'm absorbing as much as i can.The more tips the better:thumbsup:
Thanks guys,i appreciate everybodies tips.
Always better to have several sets of eyes approaching a subject in my opinion,so keep the tips coming:wave:

Todd,i think i'm gonna go with the square weed trimmer line for lockwire.
Ted and i tried it out,and it sure locks the rail in solid,even without glue.
Ted discovered the easy way to install the rail and lockwire,using a hard carpet roller,looks like you can roll the rail and lockwire into the rail pocket together :thumbsup:.

Not much happening yet,i'm still building the guides.
Making roughly 60 ft of styrene strips fit the slots nice and tight is gonna take me longer then i thought,lol

Rick


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## tossedman (Mar 19, 2006)

What are you making the styrene strips out of Rick? You can buy a pack of 9 two foot strips for 7 bucks I think. Trains and Such has them.

Todd


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

It's the filing
They are a hair to thick to fit the guide slot,so you got to narrow them up a hair.
Picked up a bunch at PM
Todd don't buy any,they aren't really a wear-able item,so when i'm done with them on my track you can use these ones:thumbsup:
Rick

I'll have to get you to bring your camera out when you come,lol.


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## Tsooko (Oct 15, 2009)

smalltime said:


> Please dissregard my earlier posts.
> 
> I was dead wrong.
> 
> :wave:


Didn't mean to offend! Most of what you said was right. Rpms made me scratch my head. :thumbsup:
Ted


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## fordcowboy (Dec 27, 1999)

Well I can tell you That I have a track that was made by Tim and it is great and he know what he is doing.Just be cause you do it diffrent dont made his wrong. fcb


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

Ted i found Tims advice to work good.
I got a nicer rail pocket with less clean-up by going to the full speed setting on the little Ridgid router i'm using.:thumbsup:

The other thing i found,is try to rout Sintra when it's cold.
I started early in the morning when the outside temp was about 60F.
I got a nicer finished slot at that temp then i did once it started to warm up a bit.
By the time i had 2 rail pockets done,the temp had risen to a little over 70F and the second rail pocket definitely needs more clean up then the early morning pocket does.
That's something to keep in the back of your mind,especially if you're like me doing it outside in the backyard.
To keep piece with the better half,i'm making the big mess outside,and it does create a big mess.
Pick the cool early morning shady part of the day to do your routing,and save the clean-up for later on when it warms up.
Took me about 45 minutes a pocket to rout,on a little over 60 feet of track.
One lane down:thumbsup:


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## Tsooko (Oct 15, 2009)

I never did say Tim doesn't make a good track!
Well I am all for admitting when I'm wrong. High rpms for me has always packed the swarf in the slot, tighter, at least on the guide slot. 
The power rail slot is not as deep as the guide rail slot, giving less room for the plastic to pack in also. The guide slot was cut at .16" depth and the power rail should be about .08" deep, for a .015" rail height, using the wire Todd has gotten for us. The guide slot is .062" ( 1/16" ) wide and the power rail slot is .078" ( 5/64" ) so the weed eater lock plastic wire could be used. The shallower, wider power rail slot would clear the swarf easier. That makes a difference too.
That bit I gave you Rick, is brand new and very sharp. The cold seems to make a difference too. Heat is the enemy here.
The Ridgid router does 20,000 - 30,000 rpm from low to high speed. My 5.5hp Porter Cable on the cnc does 10,000 to 21,000 rpm and the Roto zip I have does 30,00 rpm. I don't think you can buy a router at your big box store that will do the 50,000 to 60,000 rpm Tim has mentioned.
I know other people will be thinking about routing their own sintra tracks and reading about yours will encourage them. It really isn't that hard to do, in fact I would rather route sintra than mdf.

Glad you are making progress. Wish you had a camera, Pics would be nice.

Rock on! I want an invite to come race on your track. 

Cheers Ted


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

LOL,no problem you got a standing invite anytime you want it Ted:wave:

The other thing is keeping the router cleaned out during the routing process,and that's where my air compressor comes into play,stopping every few minutes and blowing things out seemed to make a world of differance.
That's about the only benefit to doing it outside,you can blow things off easily

Ted can you post pic's of the router base plates Todd and you designed and built.
I still think you should do a video,you've got alot of good tips now to pass out,and i bet guys would be mighty interested in a how-to video from your s'periences Ted

You guys gotta see these base plates,they're the cats rear,for routing off styrene guides.
They make cutting the power rails easy,even for a router challenged idiot like me ,lol.

I'd still like to try Tims blast of air idea out,as i think that'd be the best way,but i haven't figured out how you could attach an air hose to these small Ridgid routers and still keep good router control,and good router control seems to be the key issue.
Need a routing partner,lol

I've never been much for pic's,sorry about that,even if i had a camera,i'm so putor illerate,that it wouldn't do me much good anyways,lol
Rick


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## LeeRoy98 (Jul 8, 2005)

OK, I have to admit my ignorance (that may not come as a surprise to some), I had never heard of Sintra and had to Google and do a lot of reading.

Would someone mind giving the pros and cons of using this product for a routed track and compare the end result to the other contenders?

Thanks,
Gary
AKA LeeRoy98
www.marioncountyraceway.com


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## Tsooko (Oct 15, 2009)

Gary
http://www.tri-dee.com/Sintra sheets information.htm
Here is a good explanation of sintra. 
Basically it is a closed cell expanded PVC (Poly vinyl chloride) ridged plastic material. It can be worked with woodworking tools, Routers, Table saws, Jig saws. CNC routers and attached mechanically or glued or both. It can also be thermal formed. I want to try thermal forming a banked corner one day. but it can be bent like mdf but even more so.
Many of the big track builders have gone to making tracks for HO from Sintra. Max-track, Brad's tracks come to mind and there are others as well. Most use a cnc router to cut out the tracks but they can be hand routed the same as Mdf tracks. The 6mm or 1/4" thickness is used the most for HO slot cars and many of the "Racer's" have these tracks for their programs.

Pros are:
It is easy to route.
There is a constant surface from one track to another.
You don't have to paint it but you can if you want. 
You can spill a drink on it with out ruining it.
Continuous power rail. (no clickity clack) as the car runs.
Works for all types of tires and gives good traction.
Lasts a long time.
Available in many colors, Black, white and grey are common for HO.
Won't rot or swell up. like in a damp basement.
There are more but they escape me for now.

Cons:
It costs more than MDF. (Mdf at this time in Canada is $24 for a 3/8", 4' x 8' sheet and the last sheet of 1/4", 4' x 8' sintra I bought was $74)
Mistakes are harder to fix but JB Weld works good. Or epoxy resins to fill the whoops. Having the right tools helps to eliminate mistakes.

I can't think of any others.

You could get a sample or scrap piece to handle as most Sign shops use it for outdoor signs. Perhaps in St Louis? Phone first to see if you can have a chunk. Or if you find a suppler they will give you a sample. Get a 6mm thick piece if you can as that is what is used in our hobby.

I'll see if I can post some pics of the router bases Todd and I have come up with and the method for using them. In the mean time I have a You tube channel that has some vids of some test tracks I have done. If you want, go to You tube and search for Tsooko.

cheers Ted


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

It's basically the stuff used to build Maxtrax's and Wizztracks.

Pro's
Easy to route is one benefit.
Fairly easy to get in Grey or Black.
Easy to repair using JB Weld,(that one i speak from s'perience on,aarrgghh)

Cons
The crap is expensive as heck.(About 75 bucks a sheet up here)
Very easy to mar,if you drop sharp edged tools on it.

I've only just started to work with it,and those are the few pro's and con's that immediately come to my mind,so far,lol

Ted beat me,i didn't see his explanation,till after i'd posted,but he's covered it way better then me,lol
Rick


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## joegri (Feb 13, 2008)

thanx for posting the sintra info toosoko. this stuff (sintra) really has me thinikin,especially after i went down to turn some laps on my mdf trak only to find that the rails in 2 turns have popped out cuz of the moist weather and i get that prob in the dead of winter too! please keep us up to speed on the progress of the sintra build i,m following along with great interest.


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)




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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

Can you use braid with Sintra? In other words, can you glue braid to Sintra and have it hold?

Thanks...Joe


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

Joe,this is the gluing info i got from the addy Tsooka posted,but it looks like you should be able to glue braid right to it,using good old "Krazy Glue",lol.
Rick

http://www.tri-dee.com/Sintra pvc adhesives.htm


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## Tsooko (Oct 15, 2009)

joegri said:


> thanx for posting the sintra info toosoko. this stuff (sintra) really has me thinikin,especially after i went down to turn some laps on my mdf trak only to find that the rails in 2 turns have popped out cuz of the moist weather and i get that prob in the dead of winter too! please keep us up to speed on the progress of the sintra build i,m following along with great interest.


Have you tried gluing in your rails with ca?
Ted


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## Tsooko (Oct 15, 2009)

Grandcheapskate said:


> Can you use braid with Sintra? In other words, can you glue braid to Sintra and have it hold?
> 
> Thanks...Joe


I don't see why not, since sintra routes like wood, you can route "gains" for braid and use any of the common ways to attach the braid. I wouldn't use the white glue and heat method 'cause it doesn't take much heat to soften the sintra. 150 Degrees starts the process. Ricks idea of the ca sounds ok. A short piece to experiment on would be a good idea.
Ted


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## Tsooko (Oct 15, 2009)

OK. I found some pics of the bases. I'm going to make a few short posts as I haven't figured out how to post the larger pics with comments, yet.
The first pic is where we started. The half moon shape is the part that rides on the fence, the round and longer edge parts are for stabilizing the router as you push it. It has evolved some to what we use now, second pic. All the bases are cnc cut for the Ridgid Router model # R2401 and made for the fence method. Way better then using the two pin base. We have found this router to be very good for making slot car tracks. It has : soft start, adjustable speed using a dial and micro depth adjustment so you can get the depth needed for power rails and guide slots This base is only for the power rail slots and I have to make a new one depending on the distance wanted for spacing the power rail so it fits in the center of the pickup shoe of the cars you run or lock wire you use.
Cheers Ted


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## bondoman2k (Jan 13, 2003)

Ya know, I been reading these posts and this stuff sounds interesting. Wanna try building my dragstrip with this, but one thing I did not see mentioned in any of these threads. What's a 'good' thickness to use for this? As with most of you guys. my money is VERY limited. So, I wanna look into costs to see if it's actually a viable option, and can I really afford it. Realy need to know the thickness I need to even begin to check out prices. 
Ron (Bondo) :dude:


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## Tsooko (Oct 15, 2009)

The fences are pieces of Evergreen styrene strips which you can get at most hobby shops that sell trains or scratch building supplies. The size we use are .060 x 312". About $7.00 for a package of 10 strips 2' long. 
The bits we use are milling bits from a machining supply shop. I use "Thomas Skinner" here in Canada but If you are in the states Google "Harvey Tools" to get a location near you. The size is 1/16" or .062" These are for the guide slots and work well in the sintra. You can even get Upcut bits specially made for plastics from them. Regular downcut bits work ok and are half the price.
Now you would think the .060" styrene would fit in the .062" groove cut for the guide slot but noooo! They are too thick to fit well. You have to file one side down to make it narrower so it is kinda wedge shaped to fit in the slot. I use an axe file, it has a rough side and a smooth side, Rick is using a crosscut file. Sand paper can be used but takes a long time. We have both tried using various electric sanders but they don't speed up the job.
The strip is put into the slot and the router is placed against the fence, turned on and away you go. The fence needs to be on the left side of the router so the the torque will push the router against the fence. If you do it with the fence on the right side of the router, it will wander off the fence and ruin your sintra piece or at least make a place you will have to fix. Ask me how I know!

Here are some pics of the base we use to cut the lane spacing and the fence in some black sintra. This base is different then the power rail base and is used to cut the lane width guide slots and the border width. As with the other base I make different ones for different lane spacing. This has a 1.6" for lane spacing and a 2" border spacing but Ricks track is 1.5" lane spacing and 1.75 border spacing. Here you can see the base mounted on the Ridgid. The second pic shows the fence and the router at work. Note the fence on the left side of the router. Very important! One other thing, don't go backwards! The router will wander creating a Whoops.
If you look close you can see the swarf that is created when routing sintra. Easily cleaned up with the vacuum cleaner, but it packs into the slot, the slower you go the less it packs in. The third pic is how we cleaned it out. Rick is now using compressed air but since this is inside, a vacuum cleaner was used.
Cheers Ted


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## Tsooko (Oct 15, 2009)

Just for fun here are a couple of more pics of the router bases and the last pic is of a track that was built for a fellow in Australia. It sorta looks like Ricks 'cept his is gray and a different design. I wish we had taken pics when when he was up and we were cutting out the track. Hope this adds to the thread, don't mean to hijack you Rick.
Cheers Ted


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## Tsooko (Oct 15, 2009)

bondoman2k said:


> Ya know, I been reading these posts and this stuff sounds interesting. Wanna try building my dragstrip with this, but one thing I did not see mentioned in any of these threads. What's a 'good' thickness to use for this? As with most of you guys. my money is VERY limited. So, I wanna look into costs to see if it's actually a viable option, and can I really afford it. Realy need to know the thickness I need to even begin to check out prices.
> Ron (Bondo) :dude:


Ron
The thickness we use is 6mm or 1/4". It is about $75.00 a sheet, (4' x 8') up here in the frozen north. I get the place I buy it to cut it to size for me ( straight cuts ). You could get 8' strips cut to the width you want for the drag strip then place them end to end till you get the length you need. Four strips 1' wide would give you 24' You might get away with one sheet?
Ted


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

Ted you keep on hijacking the thread,i'm learning more each time:thumbsup:

I'll attest to how good the router bases work,as long as you follow Teds directions you can't hardly go wrong.

Helps being a lefty though,if you got a southpaw handy let them run the router.
Personally i think a southpaw has an advantage when it comes to running a router:wave:.
Everything wants to turn to the left,i caught on real quick to Teds directions, i think it's because i'm a southpaw,cause i sure as heck don't have any router experience to speak of
Rick


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

Got another couple lanes routed in.
Discovered Tims air blast tip is the way to go.
If you can get some way of blowing air onto the router bit,you can travel almost twice as fast with the router and you get a "WAY" cleaner slot that doesn't need a heck of alot of clean-up.
Took roughly 20/25 minutes a pocket.
Quite a bit faster using air on the bit,as you don't have to stop and clean the router swarf out of the router every couple of feet

So if you guys are looking at routing a sintra based track,do it where you have access to an air hose,and probably in a big garage or outside,as it makes one hell'va sized mess.
I wouldn't attempt to do the routing in a house or basement using air on the bit,as you'll be sucking crap up with the wifes vacumn for the next 10 yrs
Rick


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## tossedman (Mar 19, 2006)

Ron, the 6 mm (1/4") Sintra is all you need for HO tracks. It's thick enough to hold a guide slot. You'll still need to put it on a table of some sort as it's not strong enough on it's own. Rick's using 3/8" plywood for his table I think and it's strong enough. Sintra any thicker gets really expensive. Any thinner and it's not thick enough for a guide slot. It's what you get if you order a Brad Bowman track, Maxx Track etc.

You can mould it too if you want to make your Star Wars storm trooper armour for Halloween.

Cheers eh,

Todd


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## tossedman (Mar 19, 2006)

Here's Rick adding epoxy to the slot to hold the rail. He's using Swampergene's idea of putting a syringe into a caulking gun to squeeze the glue out. As Gene put it it's like trying to squeeze a melon through a hose. It's hard work without the caulking gun.






Cheers eh,

Todd


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## slotcarman12078 (Oct 3, 2008)

Video is classified as private.. No can watch!!


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## tossedman (Mar 19, 2006)

OK, glue's in the rail slot, now it's time to add the rail and the lock wire. Rick's using 0.020" rail and 0.050" weed whacker string (it's square) for the lock wire. The rail slot is 0.078". It's a tight fit. He's using a carpet roller to press it in.






Cheers eh,

Todd


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## tossedman (Mar 19, 2006)

slotcarman12078 said:


> Video is classified as private.. No can watch!!


OK, just learned something. How about now? Can you see the video?

Todd


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## Tsooko (Oct 15, 2009)

The first one I can see, the second is set as private


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)




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## slotcarman12078 (Oct 3, 2008)

Yup.. Same here. The 1st one works now, and video #2 is "private". Not sure about Frankie... :lol:


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## tossedman (Mar 19, 2006)

Tsooko said:


> The first one I can see, the second is set as private


Should work now...


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## tossedman (Mar 19, 2006)

NTxSlotCars said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtXiormP9Cc


??????


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## Tsooko (Oct 15, 2009)

Does so!!!
Ted


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

Well it's something :thumbsup:.

I didn't realize what Todd was doing at the time so it's not very well narrated.

I should get him out again,this time i'll know he's making a video.i'll pay attention to what he's doing with his phone,lol.

I've made a differant carpet roller since that one.
This one works better,it sets the lockwire and rail better then the one in the video,and sets the rail height while the rail is rolling in
The biggest thing i've learned is to make sure you lay the rail and lockwire out opposite from each other.
They both will curl up when cut,so make sure you lay them out so that the curls lay opposite,that way they'll both feed into the roller guide with out getting tangled..
The roller is nothing more then a Lowes carpet roller,that i've added spacers to,so that the rail height stays the same across all the lanes

The trimmer string i'm using is a square .065" readily available string,that i'm pretty sure is almost the same stuff that is used to lock the rail in on Wizztracks,and looks the same as the stuff in the piece of Maxtrax i also have.
I'm using a rail that actually measures out at .019" wide,so with it and the lockwire,and a .078" bit i'm getting roughly a .006 interferance fit,if you were running only up to mod cars,i don't think you'd even need any glue,but i run Neo's so i'm gluing the rail using good old 2 part epoxy,and it seems to look the rail in fairly solid.
On my glue tests,i had to use a good pair of pliars to actually pull the rail out of the groove after it'd been epoxy'd,so that's what i settled on for glue.it's messy and time consuming to glue the rails.
It takes longer to actually mix the epoxy and put it in the syringe and apply it to the groove,then it does to lay the rail in.

Gene's tip for using a syringe to get glue into the bottom of the slots is a great tip.

http://routedtracks.yuku.com/topic/22/Re-Melon-through-a-hose-pinpoint-glue-application?page=-1


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

One other thing,is if you buy rail in bulk form,you'll have to wipe it off.
It comes with a rust preventive coating that should be removed prior to laying it in the groove.
I've been SOS cleaning/scrubbing the rail then using a rag dipped in laquer thinner to wipe down the rail.:thumbsup:


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## joegri (Feb 13, 2008)

hornet you make it look so easy! i guess cus yer trak is in sections,still hard though. thinkin back when i railed my trak i had to wrap 65 feet of rail and pinch wire round a coffe can then, manage them and push the 2 in together while moving the whole contraption down the trak.you have to part octipus for a continueious rail trak. i think my next one will be a large sectional type or else grow a few more arm.i like the tips and hints here in this thread!!


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## slotcarman12078 (Oct 3, 2008)

Pretty cool!! The rolling method makes it look too easy!! :thumbsup: How do you connect the sections, or are each section wired individually? I do wish I had room, and the budget to go this route..


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

I make my tracks/tables usually in 3 sections so that i can bolt them together.
Learned years ago to do that,after having to use a skill saw and hacksaw to cut up my first good track to move it,i vowed i'd build them in sections.
I keep the sections to no more then 6 ft long,that way you can get them out or into most basements.
I ended up with 6 individual sintra pieces as Teds router table will only do a max of 4ft,so you can see where each section has been glued back together as i'm making them back into 3 pieces,each piece fits one section of table,techinically it's not a continous railed track,but it should be close.

Slotcarman it'll be jumpered between sections.

Actually it'll have more jumpers then most guys run,but i'm slightly anal about the power in my tracks.
Both end sections will be jumpered twice on each rail,and the middle section is gonna have one jumper per rail.
Total overkill i know,but i had lots of time between building and wiring the steel tables last year to finally getting around to routing the sintra this year,so the tables are total overkill on wiring.
I run a 0 to 30V 10amp trackmate power supply per lane,a bit much,but this way it'll run anything i throw at it.

If i was doing a few more tracks,i'd have a roller wheel custom built for the carpet roller,that has grooves cut in it to set the rail height.
I built a homemade roller that uses shim stock JB Welded to it,that i roll on the rail and it sets the rail height pretty darn level.
The edge of the shim stock pushes the lockwire in flush with the surface of the sintra while riding against the rail,and the groove created by the shim stock pushes the rail in to the height you want it.
Works better then i thought it would,but the proper way would be to have a steel roller machined.

Actually putting the rail in is the easiest part,between cleaning the rail and mixing the epoxy and squeezing it into the grooves, the rail install is relatively easy.

Joe,after doing short sections i can see where you're coming from
Doing a 65 ft stretch at once would be a nightmare.
Did you ever try setting the rail roll up like an electrician does his wire rolls.
Just thinking it might be easier to leave the rail as a roll that you can unroll as you go,if you're doing a long section.
The crap sure likes to tangle itself into a mess and kink itself if you're not careful

Here's a link to a couple pic's of the steel frames i've been using for quite awhile now,my old table is also a steel framed table.

http://routedtracks.yuku.com/topic/16


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## tossedman (Mar 19, 2006)

Here are the photos of Rick's tables. He's pretty handy with a welding torch.

New table frame.









Rick standing on his table frame. Pretty strong. Pretty sure that's 3/8" plywood on the top.









A midway table joint. Track breaks down into 3 sections,and uses bolts and 3/16" spring steel roll-pins to align and bolt the sections together.









Another view of the roll-pins and section joint.









3 future plug-in outlets,fed by a heavy duty 12G outdoor extension cord. They've since been installed, 2 are switch-able off the front of the table, and one is a normal live 110/120 volt outlet. Cord runs through frame rails.









These pictures were taken last fall. I'll have to take some more to show the amount of wire, capacitors, switches and so on that have found their way to the bottom of the table over the last while. Looks like it'll be up and running sooner rather than later.

Cheers eh,

Todd


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

One thing i've also found is laquer thinner wipes up excess epoxy and doesn't seem to attack the surface of the sintra.
So far it's the best stuff i've found for epoxy clean-up off the surface of the sintra,if anybody else has found something better,let me know,please and thanks:wave:
Rick


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

Looks great!!! :thumbsup:


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## Tsooko (Oct 15, 2009)

This looks very professional Rick.
Funny how a bunch of Canucks show how to do Sintra tracks. I hope more people try this. 
There are many ways to do something, and one idea breeds others.






Cheers Ted


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## tossedman (Mar 19, 2006)

Hornet said:


> One thing i've also found is laquer thinner wipes up excess epoxy and doesn't seem to attack the surface of the sintra.
> So far it's the best stuff i've found for epoxy clean-up off the surface of the sintra,if anybody else has found something better,let me know,please and thanks:wave:
> Rick


Mr. Google says the following:

DENATURED ALCOHOL is the best and probably the safest solvent from a bodily contact standpoint (although it is flammable). Ordinary mineral spirits (paint thinner) is also relatively safe. Other solvents are more hazardous, from a vapor inhalation and/or flammability standpoint, as well as from long-term health affects.

ACETONE is a very effective solvent but has a relatively high evaporation rate, making it necessary to keep the container closed at all times when not in use for safety and economy. The main problem with acetone is that it is highly flammable. 

LAQUER THINNERS are a generic group of solvents which function similarly to acetone, however, there are different formulations. Fumes are also easily detectable in most, but they are not quite as volatile as acetone, yet still considered highly flammable.

TOLUENE, a common constituent of lacquer thinners, is not quite as flammable as acetone nor as volatile, but can reach anesthetic affects at much lower levels. A 50/50 mix of toluene and acetone is sometimes used as a solvent to moderate the qualities of each.


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

Thanks Todd for all the pic's you took so far,i owe ya one:thumbsup:

Ted,i gotta give you credit,i learned more off you then anybody else,and this is a big learning curve,Thanks Ted:thumbsup:

Never thought of trying rubbing alcohol.
Tried Acetone,it worked good,but it dries the hands out something fierce,and Toulene i'm leaving alone,that stuff'll kill ya


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## plymouth71 (Dec 14, 2009)

tossedman said:


> ??????



What Haven't you heard of Frank Sintra? :thumbsup:


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## tossedman (Mar 19, 2006)

Sure, just don't know what it has to do with Rick's track.


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

Them Bomber fans are in the dark Todd.
Just kidding Plymouth:wave:


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## plymouth71 (Dec 14, 2009)

HORNET!!! you can step on my slot cars, melt down my track, but don't knock my Football Team! Were doing well this year BTW. LOL

Tossedman you obviously still don't get it. Read the title of the thread again.
"Routing *Sintra* (expanded foam)" 
Now does *Sinatra* seem odd/funny?


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

Yea the Bombers are doing good this year,they'll run into the Roughriders soon though:wave:
Being an ex-Sask native i root for the good guys,lol:thumbsup:
Them damn Stamps are the ones to get rid of:thumbsup:
Rick


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## plymouth71 (Dec 14, 2009)

Hornet said:


> Yea the Bombers are doing good this year,they'll run into the Roughriders soon though:wave:
> Being an ex-Sask native i root for the good guys,lol:thumbsup:
> Them damn Stamps are the ones to get rid of:thumbsup:
> Rick


You mean through those Banjo pickin' inbreds! Saskatchewan has a bunch of former Bombers from last year, Look where that's got them... I'll agree those Stampeders are a whole other level of annoyance!


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

:wave:


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## tossedman (Mar 19, 2006)

plymouth71 said:


> HORNET!!! you can step on my slot cars, melt down my track, but don't knock my Football Team! We're doing well this year BTW. LOL
> 
> Tossedman you obviously still don't get it. Read the title of the thread again.
> "Routing *Sintra* (expanded foam)"
> Now does *Sinatra* seem odd/funny?


Zoooooom! That was the sound of that one going right over my head! D'oh! 

Go Stamps!









Cheers eh,

Todd


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## tossedman (Mar 19, 2006)

*The saga continues...*

Well, popped over to Rick's today to have a few more of Diane's excellent cookies. Oh yeah, took a look at what Rick was doing as well. He's got a third of the track ready to go. Two thirds still in progress.

Here's what we saw this afternoon:

The left side. Mostly done.









The whole left side. Still mostly done.









The right side. Not mostly done.









The power supplies. One for each lane.









Would have taken more pictures but kept getting caught with my fingers in the cookie jar. Thanks again Rick.

Cheers eh,

Todd


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## tossedman (Mar 19, 2006)

Plymouth71 just looked up your location. My Mum used to live not far from you at the corner of Assiniboine and Carleton. I grew up in Transcona. That'll explain why I missed the Sinatra reference.

Todd


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)




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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

LOL,yea she makes a mighty fine cookie:thumbsup:
She had a giggle when i told her about your little guy Noah digging into them.
After you left i got the middle piece finshed up and ready for paint,now comes the part i just love,masking everything off to paint the lanes,my favorite job

Thanks for taking the pic's,that high dollar phone of yours sure impresses me:wave:


Hey Winnepeg lost it's mosquito capital status this year,i think Edmonton took it from them,jeez that must break a few hearts for them:wave:
Hey 71,just giving ya a hard time,lol
Rick


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

Looking for ideas on attaching the sheets of sintra to 3/8" plywood.
Leaning towards good old RTV silicone and a few #1 screws,but nothings wrote in stone,so sintra attaching tips are sure appreciated :thumbsup:
Rick


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## Tsooko (Oct 15, 2009)

I talked to the manufacturer. He said Silicone was good to glue sintra to plywood, mdf, etc.

Seems to me the Edmonton Eskimos are the only unbeaten team this year!!! My best guess is that they have to be fast to dodge all the mosquitoes

Cheers Ted.


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## tossedman (Mar 19, 2006)

Went back to Rick's this afternoon and was barely able to move after a feat of Diane's great cookies. Man you boys don't know what you're missing! Well Ted maybe you do.

Rick's got the track all together on the table, painted and running. He's added a number of jumpers (Rick, this is where you chime in and tell us how many). Here's a quick video of how it's done. 






Here's the final result.






Cheers eh,

Todd


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## tossedman (Mar 19, 2006)

More pictures of today's investigations.

Wiring.









More wiring. You can see where the jumpers go up through the table to the track. That red thing on the right is the Trackmate interface.









A driver's station. Easy place to hang a controller.









Track.









More track.









More track.









More track.









More track.









More to come.


Cheers eh,

Todd


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## tossedman (Mar 19, 2006)

And yet more:

Voltage meter.









TrackMate timing display. That best lap time's going to be hard to beat.









Voltage meter and voltage adjustment knobs. Coarse and fine.









Some kind o' fancy controller. Defacto or something. I'm trying not to remember the name so I don't spend any more money of my own.









Front of driver's station.









Back of driver's station.









Capacitors = smooth power.









The power supplies.









Well that's all folks. Rick will be happy to answer any and all questions.

Cheers eh,

Todd


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## tossedman (Mar 19, 2006)

Oh and here's proof that it actually works. This is Rick driving. I only put on another 600 or so laps after him just to help him break it in. It's a blast to drive; in either direction.






Here we've slowed things down a bit at the beginning. Just to make things a bit easier to see. The track is so much smoother than Rick's old track.






Cheers again, :wave:

Todd


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## Tsooko (Oct 15, 2009)

Rick
You got to be some kinda wiring genius!!! And neat too!

Love the way the car sounds as it goes around. That is one fine track! How do stock cars go on it? I feel a trip to Calgary coming on.

Thanks for the vids and pics Todd.

cheers Ted


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## joegri (Feb 13, 2008)

very nice trak ya got there rick! you should be proud of yerself to be able to design/assemble and create such a beast. also nice job on the video. ya know we all like pics but moving pictures are better!all that wireing looks like it could be in the old space shuttle! very cool and use that thing up.


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

Joe,i gotta give credit to Todd for the pic's and video,that was all him:thumbsup:.

If it hadn't been for Todd and Ted,i'd never have got it done,thanks guys.
I owe you guys bigtime 
Thanks

Ted,so far i've only got one car set-up for it,and it's just a beater practice car with a 36 spinner,nothing special.
My one super stock car blew up,and i'm outa stock arms,but it worked good for the 40 or so laps it made before the arm went south.

I ended up doing 11 power taps on it,was gonna do 12,but lazy and impatience set in

Joe i know just enough about wiring to be dangerous,lol

Thanks for the compliments guys.

Todd it was great having you out yesterday,the wifes cookies make the trip worthwhile:wave:

I thought my old glued and screwed Tyco track was fairly smooth,but it's a gravel road compared to this track

Rick


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

I ran into a neat way of doing power taps.:thumbsup:
I'm trying to get Rick C to post pictures of his power taps,they're pretty simple and he doesn't solder them.
Hey Rick,i'd post the pics,but they're your pic's and your track
If we put enough pressure on,i think he'll post them up
Rick W


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## tossedman (Mar 19, 2006)

Pictures! We want pictures! They help this of us who only look at pictures.

Todd


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## Rick Carter (Dec 2, 2008)

LOL! I'll try to get them up today but feel free Slick Rick. Sometimes I have problems with uploading pics from my phone..


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## tossedman (Mar 19, 2006)

Rick Carter's pictures and his methodology for doing power taps.

Here is a simple way to do power taps. It's a press fit up against the rail and I have yet to experience any problems with them (power loss wise) and I host 4 races per year.

The copper wire is striped from flat wire that was used when installing my lights in the basement.










Basically, just drill 2 holes on both sides of the rail, insert the pre-cut copper wire and twist them tight from underneath.



















Run the black wire on the passenger's side and that particular lanes color on the drivers side. Run them to the terminal block and you're set.



















Taps in a snap -LOL


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

I experimented abit with Rick C's tap versions,they can be soldered to the rail very easily,to make a solid rail to jumper connection,if you want a solid low resistance connection.
I think this is a better tap method then what i showed in the video,an almost indestructable tap,and even with-out solder they work exceptionally well,great idea Rick:thumbsup:


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## Rolls (Jan 1, 2010)

They seem to have a big contact area along the rail, which is nice for passing along those amps. :thumbsup:


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

And they're simple,gotta love that fact.

Carter how come you didn't send me these awhile ago,lol:wave:


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## Rick Carter (Dec 2, 2008)

I wanted you to work your butt off first so that you'd have a comparisons sheet so to speak. Almost like driving a car with no power steering and bad brakes. If you can drive that, then when you get in a good car, you'd be able to drive practically to Alaska with no problem. Wait...don't you basically live in Alaska? LOL!

Todd told me not to tell you as a joke and wanted to perfect his video making at your expense -LMAO!


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

:wave:


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## tossedman (Mar 19, 2006)

Rick Carter said:


> I wanted you to work your butt off first so that you'd have a comparisons sheet so to speak. Almost like driving a car with no power steering and bad brakes. If you can drive that, then when you get in a good car, you'd be able to drive practically to Alaska with no problem. Wait...don't you basically live in Alaska? LOL!
> 
> Todd told me not to tell you as a joke and wanted to perfect his video making at your expense -LMAO!


New Jersey to Alberta is about 2400 miles. Alberta to Alaska another 3200 miles. So not quite half way.

Rick, ya shouldn't have told him. Could have made another three videos at least!


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

Jeez Rick you're just around the corner and down the block:wave:


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

Rick,

That is a great way to do power taps.

I'm curious as to what gauge wire you used for the taps. The electrical house wire I'm familiar with has three internal wires (white, black and bare) inside white insulation; standard Romex cable for example. From looking at the pictures, I'm assuming the wire you used, once stripped, is round and not actually flat.

I am also assuming the tap wire would need to be thinner, and therefore sit below, the height of the rail. Unless it was sunk into the track surface. It seems to me, just sitting here, that wire used to run electic lines in the house would be either 12 or 14 gauge, which if laid on the track surface would be taller than the rails.

Correct?

Thanks...Joe


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

Give him a bit Joe,he's busy cleaning track right at the moment.


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

I'll take a stab at what i know for you Joe.
Rick's track is a sintra based track
He's at work for the next couple of days.

He's using good old 14/2 Nomex,normal household wire.
If you look close there's a routed pocket that the wire sits down into when it's tightened up.

Rick does his on the outside of the rail so as not to pull his lockwire up.
But it's easily done on the inside of the rail too.

If you're trying to adapt the idea to a non-sintra style track,like Tyco/Tomy,i'd try using a thinner guage of wire,as 14G needs some sort of slot,or like you said,it sticks up taller then the rail.
It's possible to hand gouge a slot beside a Tyco rail,using an exacto knife,as i had to hand gouge out the rails on my old Tyco track twice in it's 11 year life span.
Neo cars are hard on rails
So making a small slot for say an 18 or 20 G solid core wire shouldn't be all that hard.
I'm not sure if Tomy track will take to an exacto knife carving,as i never used Tomy track,but i think it's probably do-able on it too

It'd take a bit of experimenting,but the idea should be adaptable to a sectional track.

If anybodies got track to experiment with,i'm thinking it's you Joe:wave::wave:
The other Rick


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

Hi "The Other" Rick,

You told me what I needed to know. When I looked at the above-track pics and saw a dark line between the two drilled holes, I didn't know if that was a pencil mark or a "slot". Now that I know it's a slot, the technique makes sense to me now.

And you are correct. I have plenty of plastic track in which to experiment.

Thanks...Joe


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

Joe,i tried it out on a piece of Tyco track,it's pretty easily done on it.

I used the same solid core 18 gauge jumpers as i used on my track (per the video).

What i did was take a wide exacto knife,and scratched a slot lengthwise with the rail.

I held the blade vertically to the track surface,and used the tip of the blade to make the slot.
It leaves a tapered slot,that seems to work good as you tighten the jumpers legs.

The taper in the slot pushs the jumper up against the rail

It took a few scratches to get the slot deep enough for the 18G to lay slightly below the rail surface.

Then i drilled a .043" hole at each end of the slot,"U" bent the jumper wire so the legs of it dropped through the holes,pulled it down and twisted the legs together underneath the track till the jumper sat below the rail.

Stuck a meter on the jumper and the rail got 0 ohms,and it would take a fair bit of wiggling and still read 0 ohms.
If you soldered it,it'd be damn near indestructable in my opinion

So yup it's adaptable to Tyco track pretty easily

If you have the pieces loose,and you have a Dremel drillpress or small drillpress,i'd try making the slot using a drillbit or real small mill bit.
If you used somewhere around a .035" drillbit,and carefully used it to make a small slot alongside the rail,then a 18G jumper wire should have a slight interferance fit,as 18G is roughly .037".

My experiment was pretty rude and crude and quick,just to see if it could be done,and whether it'd work.
Rick


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## joegri (Feb 13, 2008)

thanx for posting the power tap pics. makes me feel under powered . i only have 1 tap per lane and now you got me thinking that i have to go back and rethink my trak. am i not getting all the performance i should be getting? and how many p taps should i have in the lap length of 64 feet? ahhh. i could do a power tap upgrade this winter.again thanx for posting!!


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

Hornet said:


> Joe,i tried it out on a piece of Tyco track,it's pretty easily done on it.....So yup it's adaptable to Tyco track pretty easily
> Rick


Hi Rick,

That's great. I have been pretty tied up with helping my parents, so my play time has been down significantly. But when I do get a chance to spend some time, I am going to experiment on a couple already ruined pieces and when I get the technique down, I'll be making a few power tap tracks.

Thanks for taking the time and giving it a try.

Joe


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

JG,when i was rail testing for voltage drops,i was getting a min of a 1/2 volt loss for every 10 ft on a .019" X .099" rail
That was using just a SS style car,not one of my Neo cars.
If it was me,i'd be adding a couple more jumpers:thumbsup:

Grand,i was surprised at how easily Rick C's idea transferred over to sectional Tyco track,and how good it seem to work.
Rick


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

Simple, inexpensive, durable.... and it works.

Damm good stuff here.

Thanx for posting!


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

There's one more non-soldering way,and thats Slott V's way of doing them.
Scott's way is also excellent.

His version is to cut a small slot in the rail,and drill a small hole on either side of the rail,then the "U" bend drops into the slot in the rail,and tightens up underneath the same way.

I've experimented with Scotts way too,and it's also pretty simple and cheap,and does an excellent job of transfering power.

Scott had pic's posted on his site,but jeez they're hard to find now,he dug them up awhile ago for us,but i can't seem to find them now.
Hey Scott "help":wave::wave:

Both ways accomplish basically the same thing,and both are definitely worth experimenting with,if you want a little better power through-out your sectional track.:thumbsup:

Rick


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## Rick Carter (Dec 2, 2008)

Hey Joe,

I used the term flat wire just as a general description of how the wire looks before opened up, so I may have thrown guys off a bit from that description. Yes, its a 3 wire setup underneath the coating and is the bare wire that I use.

The track piece itself has grooves in it/a bed for the taps and they are pulled thru the holes and down below the rails.

Oh, its 14 from the white coated wire. I believe the yellow coated wire is 12 gauge.


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## Rick Carter (Dec 2, 2008)

Cheap,

I mean Rick. Did you say the C word? Squeezing as you walk -LOL!


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

:wave:
Hey i thought you were at work today:wave:
Hope i got most of it right Rick:thumbsup:


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## Rick Carter (Dec 2, 2008)

Yup-Yup, I'm here. Last night was very quiet and I hope that today stays just as it is. We had 140 calls on Saturday. Well, THEY had 140. You know that I was at home doing the "Save the Raceway" dance -LOL!

I'm heading straight down to the lab when I get off tomorrow morning and will have an update for you by 8:30.


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

Hornet said:


> There's one more non-soldering way,and thats Slott V's way of doing them. Scott's way is also excellent.
> 
> His version is to cut a small slot in the rail,and drill a small hole on either side of the rail,then the "U" bend drops into the slot in the rail,and tightens up underneath the same way.
> 
> Rick


Hi Rick,
I saw Scott's version a couple years ago and the way he does it, it ends up looking very neat. I tried it once but I couldn't cut a slit in the rail without messing up the surrounding track surface.

Rick C's method looks like it might be easier to accomplish.

Thanks...Joe


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

Rick Carter said:


> Hey Joe,
> 
> I used the term flat wire just as a general description of how the wire looks before opened up, so I may have thrown guys off a bit from that description. Yes, its a 3 wire setup underneath the coating and is the bare wire that I use.
> 
> ...


 It all makes perfect sense now...

Thanks...Joe


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

Rick,i'll be waiting for an update,is that on cookies or the track


Joe you could try making the slot at the section joint,the nicks aren't as big a deal at the section joint as they are in the middle of the track piece:thumbsup:


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## Rick Carter (Dec 2, 2008)

Slickety Rickety,

I actually forgot about the Crackies -LOL! I'm really laughing over that one -LOL! Initially I meant on the track. The track update may be delayed a few hours because I'm going to try and slip about an hours sleep in when I get off. So much for a quiet night. We had a huge fire that came in around 8:30 last night and I'm just getting back in from another run.

A few cats are coming over on Saturday to shake the dust off before the season starts next week so I'll have an additional update.

Also, I'm going to go straight to the terminal block on that last addition to see if I can tell the difference.

Finally, if anything is SPAILED incorrectly, make sure that you aren't awake at 3am your time reading this -LOL


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

I got nothing but respect for you Rick,for being a firefighter:thumbsup:.

My hats off to you.

Now that i got the sappy part over with,where's the updates,you can sleep when you're dead,lol:wave:


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

Rick,how's the track any improvement.

What are you guys using for cleaning your track,besides WD40,i don't like the stuff on my tracks,this question is for anybody who wants to answer:wave:

I use straight Windex for most cleanings,and about once a month i dig out my other bottle of Windex,i mix a couple onces of Vinegar in with a full bottle of Windex,and use it to clean my track maybe once a month,but no WD40 ever goes near my tracks.
And i always vacumn the track after wiping it down with Windex,so i'm curious about what other guys use for their tracks,and their cleaning technic's.
My tracks have all been painted with acrylic enamel since 1991,and this is what i've been using on them ever since
Rick


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

Jeez i was hoping a few secret concoctions would come out.

What are you guys using for track cleaning


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## tossedman (Mar 19, 2006)

I use whatever you're using. :tongue:


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## beast1624 (Mar 28, 2009)

My track is Tomy HO. I found some stuff called Plexi-clean (got it to clean the windshield on my '78 Honda 750 w/ Vetter fairing). Stuff is made especially for plastic/acrylic/lexan. Found out it works great on flat screen monitors/TVs, tinted windows, plastic appliances and slot car tracks! Leaves no residue.


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

Todd:wave:

Awright that's what i'm looking for ideas.:thumbsup:

Beast 
I think i've seen the name,but i'm not sure for sure,but it sounds familiar.
How are you apply'ing it

I'd even wonder'd about using a headlight polish on the track/rails.
Has anybody ever gave a fine liquid polish a whirl
Rick


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## beast1624 (Mar 28, 2009)

Just spray on and wipe off. It's a bit less 'detergenty' than windex and it doesn't sink into the plastic. Do a seerch for "Plexi-Clean" and you will find several places that sell it, including the manufacturers website.


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## Rick Carter (Dec 2, 2008)

Beast,

Does it have any adverse effects on the rails? I "use" to use WD40 but I am definitely off of that kick. 

I have a routed track and I don't like what it does to the surface from the waiting period before you can run on it, plus the residue that it leaves even after wiping it down with a dry cloth.

That's it, I've had enough!! Its time for me to design a car that you drop solution into and roll it around the track. One for the rails and the other for the track. Sort of like an HO Zamboni -LOL!

Rick,

Don't get too excited over the thoughts of Hockey. I know how you Canadians love the sport -LOL!


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

LOL,when it comes to hockey,it's my wife you gotta worry about,she's the sports fan in my house,crap she even made me watch baseball last night.
For me it's racing,any and all forms,if it's got wheels i'll watch it race,lol:thumbsup:


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## beast1624 (Mar 28, 2009)

Rick
No adverse effects on the rails that I have noticed. Been using it for about a year now once a month. Have not had to use anything to brighten the rails.


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## tossedman (Mar 19, 2006)

Hockey! Did someone say hockey?


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## penly (Aug 27, 2011)

And they're simple,gotta love that fact.


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## IN THE PITTS 3 (Sep 18, 2011)

*Routing Sintra*

Hi my name is Mike and im new to this forum stuff . Im building a 6 lane high banked Atlanta Motor Speedway out of Sintra plastic . Its not my first track but i would like to know if anyone can supply me with a manufacture name ( contact info )for the rails ? Im not having much luck finding any . Thanks Mike


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## Tsooko (Oct 15, 2009)

IN THE PITTS 3 said:


> Hi my name is Mike and im new to this forum stuff . Im building a 6 lane high banked Atlanta Motor Speedway out of Sintra plastic . Its not my first track but i would like to know if anyone can supply me with a manufacture name ( contact info )for the rails ? Im not having much luck finding any . Thanks Mike


Hi Mike
If you are talking about the power rail wire try here 

http://www.wcjwire.com/index.php/products/boxstitching_wire

The size we use is .103" x .020" 
I have tried the electocoated type and the copper coated type. the electrocoated type is better.

Cheers Ted


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

Mike the .020" size rail gives a bit more attraction then Tyco rail.
If you want something with a little less magnetic attraction,the .017" rail would be what you'd want.
The wider .020" rail will give more life expectancy out of your rails,if you run rail dragging style mag cars,so that's something to keep in the back of your mind.:thumbsup:.


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## IN THE PITTS 3 (Sep 18, 2011)

*Rails for sintra plastic*

Hay thanks guys for all the good info ! Its hard to find good information out there in cyberspace ( well at least for me ) ! Thanks again Mike


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## tossedman (Mar 19, 2006)

Mike, drop WCJ Pilgrim an email and ask for some samples of their wire. They sent me a pile. Tell them what you want to use it for. You won't be the first to use it to build a slot car track.

Cheers eh,

Todd


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## tossedman (Mar 19, 2006)

Just a note. If you route a track and the guide slot is routed at 1/16" and you paint the track, watch out as to how much paint you throw on there. Too much and the slot gets too narrow for BSRT G-Jets and G3's to run on as they have wider guide pins that Wizzard cars for example. You'll either have to sand the slot to remove some paint or not use the BSRT guide pin. Just saying... 

Cheers eh,

Todd


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## Tsooko (Oct 15, 2009)

Todd! Everybody knows BSRT makes PHAT cars! :freak: :jest: and Hornet paints like a '60's hippy. He just throws paint at the track.:wave:
Ted


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## tossedman (Mar 19, 2006)

No, I think he just poured it on. Used the rails to as walls to keep it in place instead of masking tape. :lol:

Todd


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

Done with the idea everybody has to use a standardized pin.
Keeps the oddball stuff at bay


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## tossedman (Mar 19, 2006)

Even with fat BSRT guide pins it's a great track you got there Rick. I love it Lots of fun to drive. Noah talked about it for days after too.


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## tossedman (Mar 19, 2006)

Went over to Rick's yesterday and ran a bunch of laps. Times were really close. Rick must have been sand bagging a bit.

Here's some of the cars we ran. These are Thunderstorms with brass weights.




























Here's one of the magnet cars.










Brass on the right and magnets on the left.









Here's the top of the chassis. Note the aluminum front wheels on the right. Ricks building one for me with those aluminum wheels as I've already snapped off one plastic front wheel.


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## tossedman (Mar 19, 2006)

*More pics*

Another chassis view.









Front tires.









Rear tires.









Hudy tire truer with hopper up power supply. If you have trouble finding cheap digital multimeters it's because Rick buys 'em by the bushel causing worldwide shortages.









The reason I want aluminum wheels.









Look at these times. Ignore the names. I was red and Rick was yellow. This is after one of us crashed. Probably me.









Here we are at the end of our 2 minute race. Like I said earlier, Rick's probably sandbagging when I come over.









Times were pretty darned close. Lot's o fun. Thanks Rick. :wave:

Todd


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

LOL,weren't no sandbagging involved
You're getting good:thumbsup:
Might have to go to Crash and Burn style racing,lol:wave:


But yea i'm happy with both versions of spec cars,they turned out closer then i thought they would.
As evidenced by the numbers the cars are virtually identical,and that's not the first time the cars have backed up those numbers.
I'll admit they are high dollar cars,but i built them to be bulletproof and low maintaince
Except you and Brian found the weak link,so i'm gonna have to convert to heavier duty front hubs for you guys,lol:thumbsup:
Thanks for taking the pic's and narrating things for me,guess i better get your car built soon,lol:wave:


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## SDMedanic (Apr 21, 2011)

Heres an example of a sintra based track being routed by CNC.

Large file but worth the download.


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## tossedman (Mar 19, 2006)

Cool Steve, thanks for sharing that.


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

Hornet said:


> Joe,i tried it out on a piece of Tyco track,it's pretty easily done on it.
> 
> I used the same solid core 18 gauge jumpers as i used on my track (per the video).
> 
> ...


 I finally got a chance last week to try out Rick's tap method on a piece of Mattel track. The one thing I found somewhat challenging was getting all the plastic off the side of the rail within the slot.

I was able to relatively easily dig out a slot, but there was a lot of plastic which clung to the side of the rail. I'm guessing the Mattel rails are either glued in or inserted while the plastic is still somewhat pliable (or possibly the rail is hot when inserted so it slightly melts the plastic and seals in the rail). This makes the plastic adhere to the side of the rail. And the more plastic which clings to the side of the rail means less rail is exposed to your tap wire. So while I got the tap to work, it didn't come out as solid (or dependable?) as I'd like.

One method I am going to try next is this: take a standard terminal track and cut off the side box. Since the terminal track already has metal strips attached to the rails, I am just going to either (a) find female plugs of the right size which will slide over the existing metal strips or (b) tap holes into the metal strips and attach wires via screws. If I am using seperate power packs per lane I would cut the negative side metal strip so that the lanes are isolated.

Joe


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

Joe,hows your soldering skills.
The terminal strips on the older Tyco track take to soldering very well.
Notice i said "older",lol.
I haven't worked with any Tyco track that's newer than 81,so i'm not sure what the new stuff is like,but the early 80's stuff takes to soldering very well:thumbsup:.
I bought a bunch of Tyco track when Tyco Canada was folding up shop in the 80's,so that's why i don't have any new stuff,lol:thumbsup:


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

Kinda like this?


















That's what I did with my little bullring.


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

Rick - My soldering skills let me get by. I'm sure if I practiced more, I'd get a lot better. I have been able to solder wires onto regular straights without melting the plastic, so I'm not that bad. My terminal tracks will all be Mattel. I imagine the material is the same as the older Tyco.

Rich - The pictures you show are just about what I plan to do. The only difference being I would bend the end of the strips down so the electrical attachments are made under the track (and through the track board).

I've looked closely at the underside of the terminal tracks and I can't really see how Tyco/Mattel attached the metal strips to the rails. The assumption would be they are soldered, but it looks like they may have been crimped on somehow. Reguardless of how they are attached, the important factor is how good a connection they make, and how sturdy they are. Since I never hear of terminal tracks failing, I guess they are on the rails securely.

Since the manufacturer already got you about 90% of the way there, it seems silly not to take advantage of existing terminal tracks to make power taps.

But just for my own clarification:

(1) If using seperate power supplies on each lane, I would want to seperate the negative metal strip so they can be wired independantly. Question - Do I have to do this or can I wire the negative from both power source to the same rail metal strip?

(2) If using a common power source, the negative side can stay joined together.

Thanks...Joe


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

The terminal strips and rails are spot welded together,and are amazingly tough.

If your tying your power supplies together,you might as well leave the negative as a common terminal strip, it is better to seperate them but not necessary


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