# J-2 consolidated threads



## Antimatter

*What would you want in a new Jupiter 2?*

Landing gear wells and cockpit seats. What else? What size?


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## Dar

Something little bit bigger than the PL J2 and options to build it with both decks. YES I know some rescaling will have to take place here, but it can be done in an asthectically pleasing and believable way. Afterall all the set scales of the J2 and exterior made no sense when trying to put them all together so what is wrong with a version that makes sense but has an accurate interior with both decks.(minus the enging room shown in 1 third season eps of course. A good place to start would be Earl Hooks Jr. "Jupiter 2 Propulsion Specification. Some great artwork there and he fits both decks in very well, with just some minimal changes to the cockpit walls, which need to be extended a bit. So its VERY doable.

Other options of course is to be able to build it as a prop model which some here have wanted. Which would require that scrim piece behind John and Don and optional parts for the gear wells. In fact the gear wells can be used with a two deck ineriored J2 as well. I have seen some nice PL models where they were put in with the lower deck installed. 

Hopefully Moebius can provide somethng like that. If we got a J2 like that I would buy at least 3 of them, without a second thought.


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## Antimatter

I'd pass on the lower deck. Really would like a great upper deck though.


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## Opus Penguin

This has been covered in other threads, but I still want an 18" J2. What other features it has I would be happy with anything. I also agree on above quote. Lower deck is not a priority.


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## Dar

^^^Yeah I had a thread like it last year. http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=206437




Antimatter said:


> I'd pass on the lower deck. Really would like a great upper deck though.



Yeah I know some people dont want it but it would be really cool. Many do want it to have a complete Jupiter two. Again the upper deck would not have to be modified very much. In fact if it only has one deck some of the interior may look to big as opposed tot the exterior of the ship. A rescaled interior will give the overall ship a more balanced and realistic feel. Again the show never had a consistant ship throughout so Moebius can interpret a complete ship with most of what it should have. Just a thought.

Again there no reason you cant build the ship with only one deck, but also have the option for two.:thumbsup: If they go with one deck option Im not so sure I would get one.


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## robiwon

*Properly shaped hull pieces with no gaps!!!!* Give me an upper hull that fits down over the lower just a mm to get a sharp edge. Two piece hull, top and bottom, no lift off center section. Oh, and at least 16 inches in diameter.


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## Vindi

More detailed upper and lower decks
Option to have the lower deck control station port open
Pod bay, with mini pod
Retractable landing gear
Lighting kit included
BIG!!! 28" to 36"


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## Tim Nolan

FIGURES AND SOME CORRECT, WELL RESEARCHED PAINT INSTRUCTIONS TOO! I am thankful for Tom Lowe providing us with what we have though! It's still a good kit!


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## Dave Metzner

You can't have everything - because it simply doesn't fit inside the hull.
There is no room for one upper and TWO lower decks WITH landing gear wells and the Pod Bay and the chariot bay ...
Once you fit the main deck AS SEEN IN THE TV SHOW into the ship the rest of the stuff doesn't fit.

I hate to tell you guys this, but the design is DONE the mock-up and the tooling plan have been approved, and we're ready to start cutting tooling.

There is no way that the kit will be 28-36 inches -the cost to produce something like that is prohibitive. More like 18 inches as I hinted when we had the Jupiter 2 discussion here before...

No retractable landing gear - Making something like that actually work is also prohibitively expensive and would result in landing gear that is too fragile to support the model.

Due to cost constraints there are no figures included in the kit - I'm sure that the aftermarket will take care of that for you.

Yes it has a two piece hull. And yes the two pieces will fit together properly

Yes the kit is designed so that adding some lighting will be fairly simple and straightforward

I believe that the kit that will result will be an accurate representation of the Jupiter 2 that was seen every week on TV.. I'm sure we'll be able to show and tell more before too long..

I think That I've told you everything that I can.
I won't be answering every question posed - You're going to have to be patient and wait for an official announcement if you think you need more details..


Dave


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## teslabe

PM Moderator said:


> You can't have everything - because it simply doesn't fit inside the hull.
> There is no room for one upper and TWO lower decks WITH landing gear wells and the Pod Bay and the chariot bay ...
> Once you fit the main deck AS SEEN IN THE TV SHOW into the ship the rest of the stuff doesn't fit.
> 
> I hate to tell you guys this, but the design is DONE the mock-up and the tooling plan have been approved, and we're ready to start cutting tooling.
> 
> There is no way that the kit will be 28-36 inches -the cost to produce something like that is prohibitive. More like 18 inches as I hinted when we had the Jupiter 2 discussion here before...
> 
> No retractable landing gear - Making something like that actually work is also prohibitively expensive and would result in landing gear that is too fragile to support the model.
> 
> Due to cost constraints there are no figures included in the kit - I'm sure that the aftermarket will take care of that for you.
> 
> Yes it has a two piece hull. And yes the two pieces will fit together properly
> 
> Yes the kit is designed so that adding some lighting will be fairly simple and straightforward
> 
> I believe that the kit that will result will be an accurate representation of the Jupiter 2 that was seen every week on TV.. I'm sure we'll be able to show and tell more before too long..
> 
> 
> Dave


Dave, you've made me a very happy man.....:thumbsup: All that you stated is a dream come true for me. I just what a nice top floor, don't need retractable landing gears, tight fit on the hull halfs and 18"........ I think I'm
about too cry......... Yep, I'm tearing up right now......


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## Antimatter

PM Moderator said:


> You can't have everything - because it simply doesn't fit inside the hull.
> There is no room for one upper and TWO lower decks WITH landing gear wells and the Pod Bay and the chariot bay ...
> Once you fit the main deck AS SEEN IN THE TV SHOW into the ship the rest of the stuff doesn't fit.
> 
> I hate to tell you guys this, but the design is DONE the mock-up and the tooling plan have been approved, and we're ready to start cutting tooling.
> 
> There is no way that the kit will be 28-36 inches -the cost to produce something like that is prohibitive. More like 18 inches as I hinted when we had the Jupiter 2 discussion here before...
> 
> No retractable landing gear - Making something like that actually work is also prohibitively expensive and would result in landing gear that is too fragile to support the model.
> 
> Due to cost constraints there are no figures included in the kit - I'm sure that the aftermarket will take care of that for you.
> 
> Yes it has a two piece hull. And yes the two pieces will fit together properly
> 
> Yes the kit is designed so that adding some lighting will be fairly simple and straightforward
> 
> I believe that the kit that will result will be an accurate representation of the Jupiter 2 that was seen every week on TV.. I'm sure we'll be able to show and tell more before too long..
> 
> I think That I've told you everything that I can.
> I won't be answering every question posed - You're going to have to be patient and wait for an official announcement if you think you need more details..
> 
> 
> Dave


Dave please, no one asked you to tell us anything. It's a discussion and nothing else. I give up.


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## Dar

PM Moderator said:


> You can't have everything - because it simply doesn't fit inside the hull.
> There is no room for one upper and TWO lower decks WITH landing gear wells and the Pod Bay and the chariot bay ...
> Once you fit the main deck AS SEEN IN THE TV SHOW into the ship the rest of the stuff doesn't fit.
> 
> Dave



Fair enough. Though you couldnt even get an accurate representaton of the Main deck in as seen on the tv as well. Since the interior used staright vertical walls(pod bay, weapons locker interor etc. As oppsed to angled walls. plus Im sure the scale would still be screwed up as opposed to the exterior of the model since the set exterior was different than the model exterior. I was hopiong for a two deck ship(NOT THREE since the engine bay was since only for a few minutes in one ep. and made no sense at all) that made sense in an asthetically pleasing way, some rescaling and liberties taken but a nice facismile representation of the ship. Oh well.


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## Dave Metzner

I'm sorry that you don't want to know what can and can't happen in you discussion.
Seems to me that your opening post was framed as a QUESTION. the post ends with a question mark! 
SO I gave you answers!


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## Dar

You cant get banned for asking that question. Though this thread might get closed.:lol: If you reread through the J2 thread Dave was telling us some cool stuff about the J2 but I think he misinterpreted it as a question thread on the actual product rather than a wishlist question thread. No one even knew that it has already been tooled. No big deal. Just a misunderstanding I think.


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## Seaview

Well, in the due course of time, all of our questions will be answered; my unasked one was in regards to the exterior hatch and air lock door, but I will be patient while working and enjoying the kits I already have on the bench.
Peace.


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## Antimatter

Dar said:


> You cant get banned for asking that question. Though this thread might get closed.:lol: If you reread through the J2 thread Dave was telling us some cool stuff about the J2 but I think he misinterpreted it as a question thread on the actual product rather than a wishlist question thread. No one even knew that it has already been tooled. No big deal. Just a misunderstanding I think.


It was a general question not directed at anyone in particular. But if the tooling is done then the question is moot anyway. What was the diameter of the PL J-2. I don't remember.


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## Richard Baker

*New 18" Jupiter 2 Kit (Cultman)*

In the CultTVman Newsletter sent today (Wed)-
=========================================
First, Moebius Models is working on a Jupiter 2 kit and CultTVman has a few details to pass along. Dave Metzner has posted that "the design is DONE the mock-up and the tooling plan have been approved, and we're ready to start cutting tooling." He further says it will be around 18 inches in size with at two piece hull. Frank Winspur, owner of Moebius posted "You guys know we can't pass up a J2. With everthing else we have done IA, it is inevitable. Just give us a little time yet, and I promise you'll get new announcements soon." There is no word on when this kit will be available.


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## Dar

Antimatter said:


> It was a general question not directed at anyone in particular. But if the tooling is done then the question is moot anyway. What was the diameter of the PL J-2. I don't remember.


18". Im a little bummed it will be only a one deck though. Im not sure yet if I will purchase more than one.


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## Ron Gross

12" - I obviously remember it well.
Ron G.


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## Antimatter

The story was broken here first. Good news travels fast.


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## Dar

Ron Gross said:


> 12" - I obviously remember it well.
> Ron G.


opps I thought he was asking about the new Moebius. Correct the PL was 12" you should know of course.:thumbsup:


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## Antimatter

Ron Gross said:


> 12" - I obviously remember it well.
> Ron G.


I have one but was not by it at the time. Thanks, Ron.


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## Dar

Yeah its cool news.


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## falcon49xxxx

I will try to explain it to those not in the hobby business.Information about new products are typiaclly released to the Hobby Distributers so they can order the product and solicite sales to their retailers IE:The hobby shops who buy them.Retail shelf space is very hard to come by for the manufacters,and anything that adversly affects there sale IEroduct infromation being released thru outside sources,can effect product desisions for the future.I have been in the Hobby Business for 42 years.alex


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## xsavoie

I bet it will cost as much as the Seaview.What is the scale of an 18 inches Jupiter 2 anyway.I certainly hope that it will have plenty of details inside,as well as transparent parts,decals,a Space Pod,figures and Chariot to scale.


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## Dar

xsavoie said:


> I bet it will cost as much as the Seaview.What is the scale of an 18 inches Jupiter 2 anyway.I certainly hope that it will have plenty of details inside,as well as transparent parts,decals,a Space Pod,figures and Chariot to scale.


Actually the closed thread has some of the answers. Dave gave us some info. It will be one deck, no figures or chariot.:lol:


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## Dave Metzner

Ok so lets try this again!
You asked - I answered - Sorry that you don't like that...
Now to Make myself understood. I know every feature and every detail of the new kit, I do not have time to answer every question regarding what is and is not included in the new kit. I'm sorry but i do have other things on my plate.
I'm sorry if I somehow "spoiled somebodies fun" So long as I continue to moderate this board I will try to control unreasonable expectations of what may or may not be included in our kits. 
If this infringes on your "discussions" I guess that you will have to try to understand that it is more improtant to me that there are no unreasonable expectations being raised concerning our products. This is a simple statement of the way I have acted in the past and will proceed in the future.
If this thread degenerates into a discussion of my moderating style I will close it

Dave


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## xsavoie

I guess that also means no Chariot to scale to be placed outside the ship as well.At least lets hope that some transparent parts will be included to possibly be lit by the modelers,as well as decals to detail the ship.I guess that some talented dude will be able to make his own solid retracting landing gear and either sell some to us,or even better yet,show us step by step on how to make one.Lot of talented people out there that will be glad to show us their better detailed Jupiter 2.


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## robiwon

I think this is some of the best news I have heard all day, no, all week! My prayers for a new J2 have been answered. Giddy enthusiasm to follow!

With the announcement of any highly anticipated kit there are going to be all kinds of "wants" but we have to remember that this is a plastic kit mass produced to appeal to the greatest number of modelers. While it would be great to have working landing gear and lights included and figures, and ...... I don't want to spend $200 on a kit. If it's bigger and looks better than the PL kit, I'm satisfied!


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## Dave Metzner

Stunts,
If you have a retail store we can put you in touch with a wholesale distributor that will be able to supply you wiith kits.
I'll check to see where too send you if you actually have a store. 
Most wholesale distributors will require that you have a brick and mortar store location. It's usually difficult if not impossible to buy wholesale if you dont have an actual store.

Dave


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## falcon49xxxx

yes,you could.


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## Dave Metzner

Here are the J-2 threads in one place.


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## Carson Dyle

I'm fortunate to know a couple of the fellows who have toiled to bring this particular labor of love to life, and based on what I've seen and heard I can state pretty confidently that the new J2 kit will be every bit as impressive as the Moebius Flying Sub, if not more so. Given that I consider the Moebius Flying Sub to be the most successfully realized injection-molded sci-fi kit to ever hit the shelves, this is high praise indeed.

That said, let's give Dave a break. He's given us a lot of info, and we'll be hearing a lot more very soon. Being a Mod on this particular forum is a difficult and thankless task, and I for one think Dave does a swell job.

Be patient, guys... the wait is almost over.


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## Dave Metzner

Rob,
Thank You!!!

Dave


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## Carson Dyle

By the way Ron Gross (if you're out there) I still the think the original PL J2 rocks. All things considered, and given the circumstances under which that kit came together, you fellows hit that one out of the park.


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## Dar

Carson Dyle said:


> I'm fortunate to know a couple of the fellows who have toiled to bring this particular labor of love to life, and based on what I've seen and heard I can state pretty confidently that the new J2 kit will be every bit as impressive as the Moebius Flying Sub, if not more so. Given that I consider the Moebius Flying Sub to be the most successfully realized injection-molded sci-fi kit to ever hit the shelves, this is high praise indeed.
> 
> That said, let's give Dave a break. He's given us a lot of info, and we'll be hearing a lot more very soon. Being a Mod on this particular forum is a difficult and thankless task, and I for one think Dave does a swell job.
> 
> Be patient, guys... the wait is almost over.




Agreed on all fronts. The Flying Sub is one of the coolest Moebius has made. Probably the most screen accurate when it comes to the interior of any model scifi spacecraft I have seen. Cant say enough about it. If the J2 two is as half as good Im sure I will be pleased. Lower level or not I decided Im still getting it.:thumbsup:


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## Dar

Carson Dyle said:


> By the way Ron Gross (if you're out there) I still the think the original PL J2 rocks. All things considered, and given the circumstances under which that kit came together, you fellows hit that one out of the park.


Yup. It will be cool to have it side by side with the Moebius.:thumbsup:


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## otto

Wow Dave, This is great news! I'm looking forward to the new J2! I'm sure it will be fantastic!


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## Carson Dyle

Carson Dyle said:


> Being a Mod on this particular forum is a difficult and thankless task, and I for one think Dave does a swell job.


Just don't ask him about a Moebius Spindrift...

:devil:

I'M KIDDING, DAVE, I'M KIDDING!

(Seriously, don't ask him. One IA ship at a time....)


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## Dave Metzner

Spindrift? I know Nothiiiiiing!


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## Antimatter

Carson Dyle said:


> I'm fortunate to know a couple of the fellows who have toiled to bring this particular labor of love to life, and based on what I've seen and heard I can state pretty confidently that the new J2 kit will be every bit as impressive as the Moebius Flying Sub, if not more so. Given that I consider the Moebius Flying Sub to be the most successfully realized injection-molded sci-fi kit to ever hit the shelves, this is high praise indeed.
> 
> 
> Be patient, guys... the wait is almost over.



If it comes close to the Flying Sub I'll be more than happy.


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## Antimatter

Carson Dyle said:


> By the way Ron Gross (if you're out there) I still the think the original PL J2 rocks. All things considered, and given the circumstances under which that kit came together, you fellows hit that one out of the park.


The PL J-2 was a dream come true and I'll always thank them and Ron for it. :thumbsup:


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## Opus Penguin

I have to agree. I bought two of Ron's kits and feel they are the basis to judge any future J2 kits with! I was very happy with Ron's kit and glad to see the work he put into it. That's why I am just happy the Moebius kit is rumored to be 18" as that is the only difference in Ron's kit I would have liked to see. Both, I expect, will be deemed works of art.


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## Lloyd Collins

I am not interested in a new J2 kit, since I still have the PL to do. I am happy for everyone else for the news.


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## Antimatter

The wheels are already turning for rotating lights, sound effects and the like. The midnight oil is already bought and about to be lit. Exciting indeed.


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## mrmurph

:thumbsup:This will be an exceptional kit, and I'm really looking forward to getting one and to seeing what the talented folks here on the forum do with theirs.

Congrats to Frank and Dave for making this dream of so many sci-fi geeks like me a reality.

And I really appreciate the tactful and personable way our friend Dave has moderated this thread. Sometimes excitement, suggestions, and the general frenzy for more info sounds like b****ing. But it's pure adrenalin and joy. WOO-HOO!:thumbsup:

What a great new era for styrene.


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## Dar

Lloyd Collins said:


> I am not interested in a new J2 kit, since I still have the PL to do. I am happy for everyone else for the news.


You can do both. I still have my PL J2 and have been collecting stuff for it for ten years.:lol: Still havent finished it. Im sure I will be 50 by the time all the aftermarket stuff comes out for the Moebius......now thats a depressing though.


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## BatToys

18" J-2 sounds like a must have kit.

I would much prefer a larger diameter like 30" but would people be willing to pay a higher price? I would.


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## Seaview

Personally, I'm very pleased with 18", and "only" having an upper deck, what with the potential for making a "crashsite diorama" larger than my current PL one. 
I'm making a "guesstimate" of 1/32 scale for figures, too.


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## spocks beard

PM Moderator said:


> You can't have everything - because it simply doesn't fit inside the hull.
> There is no room for one upper and TWO lower decks WITH landing gear wells and the Pod Bay and the chariot bay ...
> Once you fit the main deck AS SEEN IN THE TV SHOW into the ship the rest of the stuff doesn't fit.
> 
> I hate to tell you guys this, but the design is DONE the mock-up and the tooling plan have been approved, and we're ready to start cutting tooling.
> 
> There is no way that the kit will be 28-36 inches -the cost to produce something like that is prohibitive. More like 18 inches as I hinted when we had the Jupiter 2 discussion here before...
> 
> No retractable landing gear - Making something like that actually work is also prohibitively expensive and would result in landing gear that is too fragile to support the model.
> 
> Due to cost constraints there are no figures included in the kit - I'm sure that the aftermarket will take care of that for you.
> 
> Yes it has a two piece hull. And yes the two pieces will fit together properly
> 
> Yes the kit is designed so that adding some lighting will be fairly simple and straightforward
> 
> I believe that the kit that will result will be an accurate representation of the Jupiter 2 that was seen every week on TV.. I'm sure we'll be able to show and tell more before too long..
> 
> I think That I've told you everything that I can.
> I won't be answering every question posed - You're going to have to be patient and wait for an official announcement if you think you need more details..
> 
> 
> Dave


I was hoping the J2 would be around 18 inches any way, So this is good news! I was going to add that i hoped the hulls would only just be two halves, But Dave you just answered my question regarding that,Not worried about a lower deck any ways,I didn't use the lower deck in my Polar kit.Yes it was a great idea, But with it installed the hull pieces didn't fit together right any ways there were a lot o gaps.Thanks for the info Dave, And i'm looking forward to this beauty!:thumbsup:


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## Captain Han Solo

Wow!

Thanks for the Info on the Jupiter Two Dave:thumbsup:

Looking forward to the protoype Pics!

Sounds like another winner already,..18" In Diameter, Only the upper deck!! At that size it should be 1/32 scale like the Flying Sub!! Which is cool because I already have the Robinsons, Maj. West Doctor Smith and the Robot to Go with it!!

I am not worried about retractable landing gear, I can rig that myself
With the track record you guys have so far, This will be another Home Run for Us Modelers!!


High Regards,

BP


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## teslabe

Antimatter said:


> The wheels are already turning for rotating lights, sound effects and the like. The midnight oil is already bought and about to be lit. Exciting indeed.


Your so right...... Everything I've done so far to my builds are just a starting
point for what I've been wanting to do to a proper J2 kit.....:thumbsup: My PL J2 was just a toy with no real interior to work with, I liked it but always wished for a better kit to come out. My prayers have been answered......
Thank you Moebius.....:wave:

P.S. I know I will be getting a least two.


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## hedorah59

Great news! Another must have for me. Thanks Moebius!


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## Ron Gross

Carson Dyle said:


> By the way Ron Gross (if you're out there) I still the think the original PL J2 rocks. All things considered, and given the circumstances under which that kit came together, you fellows hit that one out of the park.


Thanks, Rob. Yes, I'm here, and I'm not going anywhere. I remember the sequence of events very well. Dave called me at home to finalize our agreement on Oct 16, 1997 (yes, coincidentally the fictional launch date of the J2, if you can believe it)! The product came together very fast, and was essentially available by the time the LIS movie was released the following April. Every time I tell this story, Steve I. needles me about it being the 50th time or so that has heard it. Well tough, it's still a great story.  May thanks to him, by the way, for hosting my series of PL J2 modeling tips on his site shortly thereafter. That was a lot of fun, and I think he still has it archived. We obviously go back a long way.
Ron G.


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## Steve CultTVman Iverson

Ron Gross said:


> Every time I tell this story, Steve I. needles me about it being the 50th time or so that has heard it. Well tough, it's still a great story.  .


Ring Ring Ring

Hi Ron

Hey Steve, had to call and tell your the Jupiter 2 story again.

Great Ron!

:tongue:


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## sylg57

*good new for me*

dave ,this is good news for me, i was getting ready to lay some dough on e vilbay to get myself a quite expensive pl jupiter 2 but with this news and after seeing what you done with the flying sub the waiting is well worth it sylvain


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## Richard Baker

I have two PL J2s (one is solid chrome for some reason- even the interior) which are unbuilt, though the hull windows a nd landing gear are set up on one just to look at. If I truly need a lower deck I have those. After the Flying Sub kit I can just imagine what you can do with the J2 Interior. 
18" is a good size for this model. Reconciling the interior withthe exterior will be difficult, but Moebius did a reat job with the rear 'airlock' on the FS so I have hope. I do wish the interior has clear panels for the contol consoles- that would help a lot for th eeventual lighting issues. All in all great news- I hope to have the kits I already bought finished when this hits the shelves...

.


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## flyingfrets

This is welcome news indeed!


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## Lloyd Collins

Dar said:


> You can do both. I still have my PL J2 and have been collecting stuff for it for ten years.:lol: Still havent finished it. Im sure I will be 50 by the time all the aftermarket stuff comes out for the Moebius......now thats a depressing though.


I am 50, so I don't know how long I do have, to finish what I do have.
But, I might FIND room, depend on the test shots later, that might change my mind. Who knows....


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## Gemini1999

My....

This is good news. I never expected to see another Jupiter 2 model kit, much less a larger one. 18 inches sounds like an excellent size and I'm sure that it'll be a stunner of a kit if the last few Moebius kits are any indication. I still have the PL version of the J2, but I've never built the kit. There were just so many modifications to make where I would be happy with the kit after it was finished, I've just never gotten around to it (yes, that is a very long time).

I'm rather excited about this bit of news and can't wait for updates to see what it looks like.

Bryan


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## Dar

Ron Gross said:


> Thanks, Rob. Yes, I'm here, and I'm not going anywhere. I remember the sequence of events very well. Dave called me at home to finalize our agreement on Oct 16, 1997 (yes, coincidentally the fictional launch date of the J2, if you can believe it)! The product came together very fast, and was essentially available by the time the LIS movie was released the following April. Every time I tell this story, Steve I. needles me about it being the 50th time or so that has heard it. Well tough, it's still a great story.  May thanks to him, by the way, for hosting my series of PL J2 modeling tips on his site shortly thereafter. That was a lot of fun, and I think he still has it archived. We obviously go back a long way.
> Ron G.



Its funny. I remember when the PL J2 came out. It literally brought back alot of modelers. It does not seem like 11 years ago. I still have one in the cellophane yet.:thumbsup: I do remember I was almost 28 and was just starting to get nostalgic for all the stuff I watched between the ages of 6-14, Lost in Space was one of those. Plus the Internet was just starting to get big and there was tons of info on all our favorite shows. Ron you guys brought the J2 out at a great time, in my life anyways.:thumbsup: Im actually nostalgic for 1998 now.:lol: 

It will almost be like 1998 again. Hopefully you will be doing the boxart once again.


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## Antimatter

My wife and kids think I'm nuts. I just love the old days and modeling.


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## Dar

Antimatter said:


> My wife and kids think I'm nuts. I just love the old days and modeling.



My GF thinks Im crazy as well. She doesnt know why I buy some of the stuff I do. Thankfully she doesnt live with me. I would probably have to box some of my stuff.


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## Dave Metzner

Better to spend a few bucks on kits than a lot of bucks in the bars! At least my wife knows where to find me (at the work bench building a model)
As to my mental state...that's another issue altogether..

Dave


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## Dar

PM Moderator said:


> Better to spend a few bucks on kits than a lot of bucks in the bars! At least my wife knows where to find me (at the work bench building a model)
> As to my mental state...that's another issue altogether..
> 
> Dave




Thats exactly what I tell my GF. She wasnt to happy last year when I bought an Elvira Maquette for $129. It was limited to 250 pieces and now goes for alomost double.:thumbsup:


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## spindrift

Thanks, Dave.
WE are happy....
Hopefully based on what you said about tooling starting we can expect this one..around November/December(if not sooner ha ha ha)???
Gary:thumbsup:


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## jbond

Regarding the J2 interior and exterior, if everyone would just read the fabulous book The Saucer Fleet they would discover that the upper deck interior DOES fit into the exterior. In fact I think people will be interested by how much room there actually is inside that hull. Not enough for the second deck as depicted on the show but there is room for the upper deck set and a LOT more inside the ship.


----------



## Dar

jbond said:


> Regarding the J2 interior and exterior, if everyone would just read the fabulous book The Saucer Fleet they would discover that the upper deck interior DOES fit into the exterior. In fact I think people will be interested by how much room there actually is inside that hull. Not enough for the second deck as depicted on the show but there is room for the upper deck set and a LOT more inside the ship.



Oh yeah it does indeed fit. But probably not exactly like its depicted. Probably more space in back. I still think with proper rescaling both decks could fit in (at the same scale) in the shell of the J2. There would definitely have to be a chnage to the side walls of the cockpit and beams of the upper deck. But Im getting geeked now for what Moebius is putting out. The upper deck Im sure will be detailed to the hilt.:thumbsup:

Heres a cool pic from Earl Hooks Jr., excellent book Jupiter 2 propulsion specifications. He fit the two levels in very nicely.

http://img80.imageshack.us/my.php?image=jupiter2ch0.jpg


and here are more at the amazon site for the book. http://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-m...5148/ref=cm_ciu_pdp_images_3?ie=UTF8&index=3I have the book and it is excellent.:thumbsup: I wouldnt pay what people are asking now though. I only paid $17 for that book. Its actually a great guide if you want to scratch build stuff seen in the series but not often. Like the utility room etc. This book will be great when I do the moebius model as well as finally getting to the J2.


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## Ron Gross

Dar said:


> Its funny. I remember when the PL J2 came out. It literally brought back alot of modelers. It does not seem like 11 years ago. I still have one in the cellophane yet.:thumbsup: I do remember I was almost 28 and was just starting to get nostalgic for all the stuff I watched between the ages of 6-14, Lost in Space was one of those. Plus the Internet was just starting to get big and there was tons of info on all our favorite shows. Ron you guys brought the J2 out at a great time, in my life anyways.:thumbsup: Im actually nostalgic for 1998 now.:lol:
> 
> It will almost be like 1998 again. Hopefully you will be doing the boxart once again.


Well, you never know. As Spock once said, "there are always possibilities."
Ron G.


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## Media Robinson

I'm glad the kit is coming. Will try and get one if it isn't to spendy. Also hope that the eGay prices will come down on the PLs interested in a chrome J2, possibly even a Goldie. Sorry about the lower deck, maybe aftermarket will help with that some time in the next ten years.


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## Richard Baker

> Heres a cool pic from Earl Hooks Jr., excellent book Jupiter 2 propulsion specifications. He fit the two levels in very nicely.
> 
> http://img80.imageshack.us/my.php?image=jupiter2ch0.jpg


It might be the image format but the illustration seems stretched vertically from the profile views I have seen.

The lack of a lower deck does not bother me at all- I plan on having mine up on it's gear and the interior will be seen through the viewport and possibly open door. I thin the TARDIS-like IA interior sets can be adapted with wall agles for the main level, but unless there is a scale fudge like in th ePL-J2 you just don't have the deck depth in the classic hull profile. I will be happy with a good exterior, landing gear wells and a bitch'n interior to look at throguh the windows...


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## drewid142

I totally agree... do the upper deck up right! I am already working on figures and the robot for it! I was doing a set for the old PL-J2... but as of now I am adapting all that work to this kit! Lighting on this thing is going to be so cool!

Drew

as for the illustration of fitting the decks in the profile... the lower deck looks like their head would hit the ceiling if they stood on their toes... and I question the correct scale of the people to the overall spacecraft... it's great art... nice work... but I think the Moebius approach is right on! Do the upper deck up the right way and leave it at that... of course dissapointing some... but I, at least, see this as a FANTASTIC version we are about to receive... Moebius does it AGAIN!


----------



## Dar

drewid142 said:


> I totally agree... do the upper deck up right! I am already working on figures and the robot for it! I was doing a set for the old PL-J2... but as of now I am adapting all that work to this kit! Lighting on this thing is going to be so cool!
> 
> Drew
> 
> as for the illustration of fitting the decks in the profile... the lower deck looks like their head would hit the ceiling if they stood on their toes... and I question the correct scale of the people to the overall spacecraft... it's great art... nice work... but I think the Moebius approach is right on! Do the upper deck up the right way and leave it at that... of course dissapointing some... but I, at least, see this as a FANTASTIC version we are about to receive... Moebius does it AGAIN!



I have warmed up to the idea. I was a little disappointed at first but than I thought of the detail the upper deck will have. I called my brother and told him about the new J2. Hes excited as well and he never buys models.:thumbsup:


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## woof359

I maked off the size of the mock up once in a playground in the gravle, once I had the diameter of the hull then the floor it really wasnt all the big in real life, cabin fever wood have set in real fast if they hadnt added that lower deck.


----------



## RB

drewid142 said:


> I totally agree... do the upper deck up right! I am already working on figures and the robot for it! I was doing a set for the old PL-J2... but as of now I am adapting all that work to this kit! Lighting on this thing is going to be so cool!
> 
> Drew
> 
> as for the illustration of fitting the decks in the profile... the lower deck looks like their head would hit the ceiling if they stood on their toes... and I question the correct scale of the people to the overall spacecraft... it's great art... nice work... but I think the Moebius approach is right on! Do the upper deck up the right way and leave it at that... of course dissapointing some... but I, at least, see this as a FANTASTIC version we are about to receive... Moebius does it AGAIN!


Drew, do you plan on doing a set of the Robinsons in the suspension tubes? I'm sure a lot of people will want to build it that way.


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## oshkosh619

Frank, Dave... and the whole staff at Moebius.... thank you.

The scope, beauty, quality and attention to detail of your kits is fantastic, and your dedication to those of us in the "IA" age group is surpassed by no production kit company - ever. 

These kits bring back wonderful childhood memories of rushing home from school in the late 60's - early 70's, trying to get those damn Boston UHF TV channels in clearer so I could watch my beloved Seaview, Flying Sub, J2 and Chariot (never liked the pod, LOL). As many (most?) on these boards would admit, I could've cared less about the plots, characters, etc.* I WATCHED THESE SHOWS FOR THE SHIPS!!* And every moment wished someone made nice, accurate models (even at 6 I was a stickler for detail!) of these. Well, it took four decades, but your products have re-kindled all those happy times. Not to sound sappy, but there it is, plain and simple!

I plan on getting two J2's... one to build "production" and one to build "pilot" (you hear that aftermarket guys? Get to work on a Gemini XII lower hull profile and fusion core - I can handle making the front viewports bigger myself, but the rest I'd need your talents on!). I can't wait until these hit the shelves. And at 18", they'll even eclipse my 16" Lunar J2 (somewhat converted to GXII standards). Hats off to Moebius. You guys were willing to take the risk of producing kits of Sci-Fi conveyances that anyone under 40 probably never heard of! You guys keep hitting them out of the park!

Mike


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## GordonMitchell

Great news on the J2,there are a lot of people in Scotland who are going to be pleased to hear this news,aftermarket bits shouldn't be a problem with the talents out there,and I remember that Lunar did a retractable landing gear set for their 16 inch model and I may still have the plans somewhere so it shouldn't be to hard to do,and I know you will say weights are different with the mobeus being injection and not vac-form but I'm sure someone will find a way of strenthening the resin.......just a hint from Bonnie Scotland maybe a decent sized (1/24)Spindrift next,cheers,
Gordon


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## AJ-1701

Well thank... you... Moebius...  I have to go and explain to the cheese n kissus why I'll need more display space...:devil: But what will I do my 18 year old lunar vac form piece.  I am one very very happy little vegimite now!! :woohoo:

Cheers and heart felt THANKS.

Alec.


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## Richard Baker

> I maked off the size of the mock up once in a playground in the gravle, once I had the diameter of the hull then the floor it really wasnt all the big in real life, cabin fever wood have set in real fast if they hadnt added that lower deck.


Not so much cabin fever but just impratical. The main level has a lot of open space wich is not used and no living quarters. I do not think they would sleep in the cryotubes.
If the J2 had an interios laid out like, let's say the Millenium Falcon then you would have more usable space. The J2 is a big ship, but most of the interior is something you walk through to get to the stuff on the edges.


----------



## Captain Han Solo

Richard Baker said:


> Not so much cabin fever but just impratical. The main level has a lot of open space wich is not used and no living quarters. I do not think they would sleep in the cryotubes.
> If the J2 had an interios laid out like, let's say the Millenium Falcon then you would have more usable space. The J2 is a big ship, but most of the interior is something you walk through to get to the stuff on the edges.


 
Gentlemen, Gentlemen..
The Jupiter Two as originally devised was a SINGLE level Spacecraft.As seen in the Pilot episode "No Place To Hide".
After the Robinsons landed safely on Alpha Centuri, THE ship was no longer needed..In the original Idea..And the Robinsons would no longer need it.

It wasn't until after the show was picked up by CBS, that Smith and the Robot was added and the Idea to keep the Jupiter Two as the center piece Was concluded to be a practical idea.
Allen's production team then added the lower deck Etc...

Little did they realise 40 Something years later the ship (and show)would still be loved!!And a bunch of us would be debating the practicality of the design(lol)!!

There is NO WAY it could contain two levels, landing gear(By the way , the original design did NOT have landing gear)..despite how creatitive some of us can be..It is what it is!

I for one believe Moebius knows what they are doing,and will be happy with the kits they produce..Did someone mention the Spindr...OOPS!

Just kidding Dave!!

High Regards,
BP!


----------



## Opus Penguin

drewid142 said:


> I totally agree... do the upper deck up right! I am already working on figures and the robot for it! I was doing a set for the old PL-J2... but as of now I am adapting all that work to this kit! Lighting on this thing is going to be so cool!
> 
> Drew
> 
> as for the illustration of fitting the decks in the profile... the lower deck looks like their head would hit the ceiling if they stood on their toes... and I question the correct scale of the people to the overall spacecraft... it's great art... nice work... but I think the Moebius approach is right on! Do the upper deck up the right way and leave it at that... of course dissapointing some... but I, at least, see this as a FANTASTIC version we are about to receive... Moebius does it AGAIN!


Drew this is great to hear. When Dave said it wouldn't come with figures I was hoping to hear you would be doing some, including the Robot. BTW ... will your site be up soon? I still have been working to get the Chariot figures so am hoping you will still have them for awhile.


----------



## Antimatter

beatlepaul said:


> Gentlemen, Gentlemen..
> The Jupiter Two as originally devised was a SINGLE level Spacecraft.As seen in the Pilot episode "No Place To Hide".
> After the Robinsons landed safely on Alpha Centuri, THE ship was no longer needed..In the original Idea..And the Robinsons would no longer need it.
> 
> It wasn't until after the show was picked up by CBS, that Smith and the Robot was added and the Idea to keep the Jupiter Two as the center piece Was concluded to be a practical idea.
> Allen's production team then added the lower deck Etc...
> 
> Little did they realise 40 Something years later the ship (and show)would still be loved!!And a bunch of us would be debating the practicality of the design(lol)!!
> 
> There is NO WAY it could contain two levels, landing gear(By the way , the original design did NOT have landing gear)..despite how creatitive some of us can be..It is what it is!
> 
> I for one believe Moebius knows what they are doing,and will be happy with the kits they produce..Did someone mention the Spindr...OOPS!
> 
> Just kidding Dave!!
> 
> High Regards,
> BP!


Right on. Let's be happy with what we get and if you want to modify, then have at it. BTW, I even as a child saw the 3 level engine room and said to myself, no way.


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## Opus Penguin

And technically the show indicates the ship had 3 decks. Does everyone remember the episode where Will and Dr. Smith are in the engine room? Now try and squeeze all that into the hull


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## Captain Han Solo

Opus Penguin said:


> And technically the show indicates the ship had 3 decks. Does everyone remember the episode where Will and Dr. Smith are in the engine room? Now try and squeeze all that into the hull


 
That would be the Third Season Episode 'Space Creature", Original air date of 11/15/67.

While actually a well written episode, with a Great Performance by Johnathan Harris, With the cheesy Guy in a sheet:freak:..A third deck?!?!?!With the computers from the Time Tunnel?!?!

BP


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## StarshipClass

Great news! :thumbsup:

I'm looking forward to it--glad there is no lower deck--I'd rather have an accurate upper deck and landing gear. 1/32nd scale is perfect for accessorizing! Plenty of figures out there to convert.


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## Richard Baker

So the New J2 works out to 1/32 scale? I wasn't sure but it would be nice to have a consistant scale for things.


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## StarshipClass

"Real ship diameter" = 48' = 576"

576" divided by 18" = 32

PLEASE check my math but I think that's right. (I put myself through the wringer earlier after forgetting to convert the feet to inches and kept getting weird results.  )


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## drewid142

Regarding Drew's Figures... Someone asked if I would be doing them in the cryotubes... yes

I am so excited about this kit... and I already have invested so much time making what were going to be figures scaled to the Polar Lights kit... here's what i will be coming out with..

Set 1 - Silver Suits in Cryotubes... no robot, but a Smith in shirt and tie in action pose
Set 2 - Silver suits... a few doubles... Robot included... some seated, some standing
Set 3 - Uniforms... similar to set 2.
Set 4 - Gadgets... picnic tables, dish washer, laundry, drilling rig, etc.

oh... and a little status update... I got a new caster doing the Flying Sub figures, which are shipping consistently and i am working through the list each week... he is doing also casting the Proteus and scaling up his operation for mass production... the other caster that is doing the Chariot figures is still in the weeds... so I apologize to the folks still waiting for me to get them a set... he is trying to get ramped up... if we can't straighten that out very soon I will get the Chariot figures either into the other casters hands or leave both casting them, but I will get the Chariot figures shipping consistently very soon... and don't worry... I love my products and plan to stock up on them even after the initial orders drop off so I can provide them for a very long time.


----------



## nautilusnut

*J2 thread*

No one's mentioned it, but the ICONS J2 (of which I pre-ordered and lost my money when they shut doors and left town) was also 18" in size. Jim Key tried to get it going again but I think was unable to get the licensing.


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## Antimatter

This and the new 1/350 Seaview will be the greatest year ever.


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## Y3a

the SET was based on a 48 foot diameter ship. The SPFX models were 60 feet in diameter scaled.


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## Y3a

What about the LANDING GEAR? FIXED, or moveable?


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## Dave Metzner

Fixed landing gear -it's too complex to make moveable and still sturdy enough to support what promises to be a fairly heavy model- Option to build ship without landing gear will be included...

Dave


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## drewid142

I think I read earlier in the thread gear is definietly fixed ...oh... that was fast, Dave!


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## Antimatter

Y3a said:


> What about the LANDING GEAR? FIXED, or moveable?


Yea fast, I have to edit now.


----------



## Carson Dyle

drewid142 said:


> Regarding Drew's Figures... Someone asked if I would be doing them in the cryotubes... yes


Good news.

Re: landing gear...



PM Moderator said:


> No retractable landing gear - Making something like that actually work is also prohibitively expensive and would result in landing gear that is too fragile to support the model.


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## Captain Han Solo

PM Moderator said:


> Fixed landing gear -it's too complex to make moveable and still sturdy enough to support what promises to be a fairly heavy model- Option to build ship without landing gear will be included...
> 
> Dave


Fair enough Dave:thumbsup:

Again, At this point I will probably make my Landing gear retract.

Very ,very, Much looking forward to this kit!


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## StarshipClass

I can't imagine anything but accurate landing gear wells and struts--whoo-hoo!!!!


----------



## Antimatter

PM Moderator said:


> Fixed landing gear -it's too complex to make moveable and still sturdy enough to support what promises to be a fairly heavy model- Option to build ship without landing gear will be included...
> 
> Dave


Souunds like gear wells to me. SHWEET.


----------



## StarshipClass

Y3a said:


> the SET was based on a 48 foot diameter ship. The SPFX models were 60 feet in diameter scaled.


Hmm! I never realized that! I figured the 60 foot figure was a fan-based idea in the attempt to make a lower level fit into the ship--sort of

Thanks for that tidbit!:thumbsup:


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## Antimatter

One side note; every FS and Seaview has flown off the shelf at the local hobby shop. This will rock as well. I wonder how many Seaviews have been sold to date.


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## Dave Metzner

The kit does indeed have landing gear wells - one of many reasons it has no lower levels....

Dave


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## Captain Han Solo

drewid142 said:


> Regarding Drew's Figures... Someone asked if I would be doing them in the cryotubes... yes
> 
> I am so excited about this kit... and I already have invested so much time making what were going to be figures scaled to the Polar Lights kit... here's what i will be coming out with..
> 
> Set 1 - Silver Suits in Cryotubes... no robot, but a Smith in shirt and tie in action pose
> Set 2 - Silver suits... a few doubles... Robot included... some seated, some standing
> Set 3 - Uniforms... similar to set 2.
> Set 4 - Gadgets... picnic tables, dish washer, laundry, drilling rig, etc.
> 
> oh... and a little status update... I got a new caster doing the Flying Sub figures, which are shipping consistently and i am working through the list each week... he is doing also casting the Proteus and scaling up his operation for mass production... the other caster that is doing the Chariot figures is still in the weeds... so I apologize to the folks still waiting for me to get them a set... he is trying to get ramped up... if we can't straighten that out very soon I will get the Chariot figures either into the other casters hands or leave both casting them, but I will get the Chariot figures shipping consistently very soon... and don't worry... I love my products and plan to stock up on them even after the initial orders drop off so I can provide them for a very long time.


That sounds great Drew!!!

Currently I still have a set of Lunar Models 1/32 Robinson Family(In the silver space suites), Dr.Smith(In his Military overalls) ,MaJor Don West(also in his space suite) and the Robot..I also have an extra Prof.Robinson with his jet pack in 1/32 scale..

But I like the idea of the Robinsons standing in the frezeing tubes


----------



## Captain Han Solo

Dave, Just a couple of questions Sir.

The Fusion core? Will you guys have the "fins" Included?

The main Viewport? Did you guys inlude the "Crash Doors" Track?

Again it doesen't really matter, I am very happy already, But I thought I would throw those two questions out to you Sir.


High Regards,

BP


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## StarshipClass

Dave Metzner said:


> The kit does indeed have landing gear wells - one of many reasons it has no lower levels....
> 
> Dave


EXCELLENT TRADE-OFF, IMHO!!!:thumbsup:

I say that since I've always preferred the special effects models in terms of building the model kits and only worry about what can be seen through the window in terms of being accurate to the set pieces.

I imagine that the lower window may be opened up and a rudimentary representation of the lower level may be had if one wishes to go to the trouble or purchase after-market products.

I really like the scale being big enough to get some good detail on the figures and the fact that 1/32nd figures can be easily converted with magic sculpt to make a crew up.

Mobius has certainly generated some excitement here. :woohoo:

And this is coming from someone who has drastically reduced his model purchases (due mostly to the time/space limitations).


----------



## Gary K

PerfesserCoffee said:


> Hmm! I never realized that! I figured the 60 foot figure was a fan-based idea in the attempt to make a lower level fit into the ship--sort of
> 
> Thanks for that tidbit!:thumbsup:


The 60 ft figure isn't mentioned in any studio plans. The 3-legged "full-scale" mock-up was 43.5 ft in diameter. 

The 1/12 scale studio plans show a 48" diameter miniature, which translates into a 48 ft full-size ship - except when it became 96 ft in diameter whenever they launched the Space Pod!

Gary


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## StarshipClass

Gary K said:


> The 60 ft figure isn't mentioned in any studio plans. The 3-legged "full-scale" mock-up was 43.5 ft in diameter.


Thanks, Gary!

Good info.

Is that 43.5 ft a "firm" figure--that is, accurate and established for the full-scale mock-up?


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## starseeker

I've never seen the 60' figure mentioned anywhere except fan based ideas. Everything I have that has a # (the studio drawings for the straight sided exterior and interior upper deck of the Jupiter 2) says 43.6'. To make my 1/24 scale model of the upper deck fit inside a 1/24 scale model (the original G12 interior was modified with the ladder/glide tube that would have had to project through the back of the hull, to say nothing of the locker room) I had to make the model a scale 48' in diameter. (In fact, I can't remember seeing a 48' number anywhere except my own attempt at reconciling outer with inner twenty-some years ago. Does anyone have a reference?) It's interesting: if you go back and look at all the old good fan material, like LIS Fan, and read the interviews done with old crew members 20 years after the series, a lot of them make some obvious mistakes about specifics (and are corrected editorially). And these were people who worked on the show. Now another 20 years later, there is a whole second generation of mistakes becoming "common knowledge". Eg, when did what every old magazine says was a 16" miniature (seen in real life in Wish Upon A Star) suddenly become 12"? I did a quick measure on screen - Jonathan Harris wasn't as broad in the shoulders as Guy Williams, true, but if that model is 12" then he would have had to have shoulders only about 14" across.
I've also never read anywhere that the Robinsons were going to abandon their ship and camp out for the rest of the series. I think the way they made the series was largely the way they planned to make the series. Maybe that idea came from Ib Melchior's proposed Space Family Robinson series that was possibly "incorporated" into LIS (tactfully dancing around what might still be a very sensitive and OT subject - check back issues of LIS Fan). 
The new Moebius kit will make for some great 1/32 Jupiter 2s, and maybe half as many who knows what scale Gemini 12s. Yeah, we're all going to need at least two of the suckers. Sigh. Whatever comes in the box, there's sure to be enough after market for anyone to add whatever features some of us want and enough room for the rest of us to have fun cutting plastic. These couple of years are surely the best modeling years of my life.
Thank you you beautiful Moebius!


----------



## toyroy

PM Moderator said:


> ...I believe that the kit that will result will be an accurate representation of the Jupiter 2 that was seen every week on TV...


Uh-oh. No version of the Jupiter 2 was seen _every_ week, but the one seen most often, by a wide margin, was the interior-exterior set. The hull of this version was a straight-sided approximation of the beautiful hero prop hull.


----------



## starseeker

There were actually two exterior crash sets. First season had the panelled straight sides and the low front windo sill, second season the sides were the windows were enlarged and higher and the hull sides extended upwards much farther and numerous other changes made. There is no single Jupiter 2. There are actually five possible variations. I'm dancing with getting a new kit of any of them.


----------



## Ron Gross

Gary K said:


> The 60 ft figure isn't mentioned in any studio plans. The 3-legged "full-scale" mock-up was 43.5 ft in diameter.
> 
> The 1/12 scale studio plans show a 48" diameter miniature, which translates into a 48 ft full-size ship - except when it became 96 ft in diameter whenever they launched the Space Pod!
> 
> Gary


The 60 foot diameter figure is what I used to scale my 1997 scratch-built prototype, which was eventually used as a guide by Polar Lights. I made the calculation based on the size of an internal hatchway relative to the hero miniature contour. I think Gary's point is that there is really no "right or wrong," in that there are a number of valid interpretations depending on one's chosen criteria. I quite agree.
Ron G.


----------



## JohnGuard

you guys are awfully calm about the new J2. 

me?

WOOOOOOOOOOOOO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

MOEBIUS JUPITER 2???????????

OH YEAH BABY!!!!!

I WANT 2 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BUT I WANT THEM RIGHT NOW!!

I CANT WAIT !!!!! WAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## starseeker

This is one drawing I made 20 some years ago comparing various Jupiter 2's. The horizontal center line of the ship is constant from side to side. There are some differences between the ext G12 miniature and the ext G12 (and 1st season J2) full size set that aren't shown here. But I think this adds up to 5 variations, including my 48' version (both G12 and J2). I believe (it's been a long time) the outlines of the J2 and G12 are from the studio blueprints for the 10' printed in the Tech Manual, scaled to 48 feet so everything would fit. 48' is the smallest everything will fit while ensuring that the hatchway does not turn into a hallway and that practical landing gear still fit underneath the deck. 
Myself, I'm thinking an 18" J2 would make a great 1/144 J2, huge motion picture set size observation windows and observation lounge in front of a free standing island main control panel and the "lower" deck on the same level behind the "upper" deck. What Irwin could have done with today's movie budgets and FX. And maybe the top dome an astronomical observatory. Anyone remember the old Space Fambly Robinson comic books?


----------



## Gary K

starseeker said:


> I've also never read anywhere that the Robinsons were going to abandon their ship and camp out for the rest of the series.


I believe that concept came about only in the earliest planning stages of the show, and never went anywhere - at least, not beyond the widely circulated blueprint of the crashed ship with a huge hole blown in its side.

Gary


----------



## GEH737

Wow.... 

Over 40 years now... I've been down the path of Lunar, Custom Minatures, ICONS, Sci-Fi Metropolis and Polar Lights. I respect every effort of the indivduals that produced (or tried to) a replica of my beloved Jupiter II. I hope this is the one, and from the sounds of it, it has all the possibility of bringing the dream of a great model of my favorite spaceship to life. I am really looking forward to this...

George


----------



## Gary K

Ron Gross said:


> The 60 foot diameter figure is what I used to scale my 1997 scratch-built prototype, which was eventually used as a guide by Polar Lights. I made the calculation based on the size of an internal hatchway relative to the hero miniature contour. I think Gary's point is that there is really no "right or wrong," in that there are a number of valid interpretations depending on one's chosen criteria. I quite agree.
> Ron G.


I was only quoting dimensions given on the studio plans. Ron is correct - there is no one *correct* design for the Jupiter 2, and you shouldn't get hung up on specific dimensions. Irwin Allen certainly didn't!

Gary


----------



## Dar

Antimatter said:


> Right on. Let's be happy with what we get and if you want to modify, then have at it. BTW, I even as a child saw the 3 level engine room and said to myself, no way.



Yeah I remember thinking the same thing as a child. As an adult today I ignore the fact that Lost in Space showed that 3rd level, if only so briefly.


----------



## Gary K

Everybody has been assuming the Jupiter 2 will be a 1/32 scale model. Close, but no cigar. Long story, but the Moebius model had to be 18" or less in diameter. I started designing the kit by experimenting to see what size of hero miniature would best encompass the studio interior set. The best fit occurred with a 52 ft exterior - and since the Jupiters that were seen onscreen varied in size from 40'-96', I didn't worry that the Moebius version wasn't the oft-quoted 48'.

I wanted to make the model 1/32 scale, but that would have been too large. 1/35 was the next closest common modeling scale, and since that would put the model's diameter just under 18", that's the scale I chose. Your army men should fit inside just fine.

Here's a rough schematic (not a final, polished plan) that shows how the interior fits inside the model. The studio set is undistorted, except where I had to squish the windows slightly and move the control panels slightly outboard to match the lower, wider proportions of the hero miniature.

Gary


----------



## Dar

beatlepaul said:


> Gentlemen, Gentlemen..
> The Jupiter Two as originally devised was a SINGLE level Spacecraft.As seen in the Pilot episode "No Place To Hide".
> After the Robinsons landed safely on Alpha Centuri, THE ship was no longer needed..In the original Idea..And the Robinsons would no longer need it.
> 
> It wasn't until after the show was picked up by CBS, that Smith and the Robot was added and the Idea to keep the Jupiter Two as the center piece Was concluded to be a practical idea.
> Allen's production team then added the lower deck Etc...
> 
> Little did they realise 40 Something years later the ship (and show)would still be loved!!And a bunch of us would be debating the practicality of the design(lol)!!
> 
> There is NO WAY it could contain two levels, landing gear(By the way , the original design did NOT have landing gear)..despite how creatitive some of us can be..It is what it is!
> 
> I for one believe Moebius knows what they are doing,and will be happy with the kits they produce..Did someone mention the Spindr...OOPS!
> 
> Just kidding Dave!!
> 
> High Regards,
> BP!



Well I think it could contain 2 levels with a proper rescaling. Of course their will have to be some slight adjustments with beams and walls, maybe having even more empty space around the perimter of the ship behind the walls by enlarging the footprint of the ship a little or stretch everything out in the interior a bit. Plus the ceilings will be a bit lower to accomodate a new higher floor line. The door may have to be moved up a bit, but I think it is very dooable to get a close likeness of the ship with two levels. NOW who wants to build a lifesize version of it. Maybe we can all pool are nickles and dimes together to build one.


----------



## Dar

Gary K said:


> Everybody has been assuming the Jupiter 2 will be a 1/32 scale model. Close, but no cigar. Long story, but the Moebius model had to be 18" or less in diameter. I started designing the kit by experimenting to see what size of hero miniature would best encompass the studio interior set. The best fit occurred with a 52 ft exterior - and since the Jupiters that were seen onscreen varied in size from 40'-96', I didn't worry that the Moebius version wasn't the oft-quoted 48'.
> 
> I wanted to make the model 1/32 scale, but that would have been too large. 1/35 was the next closest common modeling scale, and since that would put the model's diameter just under 18", that's the scale I chose. Your army men should fit inside just fine.
> 
> Here's a rough schematic (not a final, polished plan) that shows how the interior fits inside the model. The studio set is undistorted, except where I had to squish the windows slightly and move the control panels slightly outboard to match the lower, wider proportions of the hero miniature.
> 
> Gary




Cool. Theres plently of room down below for a second level, yeah plently.:lol:


----------



## Gary K

Dar said:


> Cool. Theres plently of room down below for a second level, yeah plently.:lol:


Yeah, between 4 and 5 ft of headroom (less, if you include the thickness of the flight deck). And don't forget to include the landing gear wells.

Gary


----------



## falcon49xxxx

Gary,You've done some wonderful work on the Seaview,and the Flying Sub,and now the J2,can you tell us something about yourself?alex


----------



## Dar

Gary K said:


> Yeah, between 4 and 5 ft of headroom (less, if you include the thickness of the flight deck). And don't foget to include the landing gear wells.
> 
> Gary



The bloop would have a blast down there.:lol:


----------



## Capt. Krik

WOW! An 18" Jupiter 2! That thing is gonna be huge. I'm still getting over how big the Flying Sub is at 14".

Frank and Dave...you just made a lot of Irwin Allen fans very happy including your truely.

To Ron Gross, Just saw the painting you did for Moebius' recently announced 1/350 scale Seaview...Fantastic.

Man! Talk about an embarrasment of riches for us modelers.


----------



## Captain Han Solo

falcon49xxx said:


> Gary,You've done some wonderful work on the Seaview,and the Flying Sub,and now the J2,can you tell us something about yourself?alex


Yes Sir Gary,That would be cool!

You can't swing a Dead cat around here without hitting a self promoted "Expert"(Not that I recommend you swing a dead cat..... LOL!), But you seem to Know your stuff:thumbsup:

Did you work at Fox?? Know the Guys at Fox?? Just curious Sir.And many thanks for all your Hard work!

High Regards,
BP


----------



## Ron Gross

Capt. Krik said:


> WOW! An 18" Jupiter 2! That thing is gonna be huge. I'm still getting over how big the Flying Sub is at 14".
> 
> Frank and Dave...you just made a lot of Irwin Allen fans very happy including your truely.
> 
> To Ron Gross, Just saw the painting you did for Moebius' recently announced 1/350 scale Seaview...Fantastic.
> 
> Man! Talk about an embarrasment of riches for us modelers.


Thanks, but may I ask where you saw it? I didn't know it was out there yet.
Ron G.


----------



## Richard Baker

http://www.clubmoebius.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=808


----------



## Gary K

falcon49xxx said:


> Gary,You've done some wonderful work on the Seaview,and the Flying Sub,and now the J2,can you tell us something about yourself?alex


Thanks for the kind words. Well, I was born on a dark and stormy night....

If you want the short story, check the link below. My local newspaper was hard up on candidates for their "Interesting People" column, so they interviewed me a few months ago.

http://www.thetelegraph.com/articles/trek_23054___article.html/space_star.html

Till I started consulting for Moebius, I was, for lack of a better word, an archivist of blueprints for spfx vehicles, concentrating on Irwin Allen shows and Star Trek. Among other things, I drew plans of the TOS Ent for Greg Jein so he could build the model for DS9's "Trials & Tribble-ations". I also provided ref plans for PL's TOS and Refit Enterprise models, Master Replica's 1/350 Ent, and (with Petri Blomqvist) the Remastered Star Trek series.

I wandered into Moebius Models fairly late in the development of the large Seaview model, and have been helping here & there ever since. Frank & Dave let me go crazy on the Jupiter 2 model, and I think you'll be amazed by the level of detail in the kit. It's a little-known fact, but Dave Metzner used to have jet black hair till he saw the parts count for the model!

The best part of my hobby has been getting the chance to meet & know the behind-the-scenes guys who are responsible for the shows/movies you watch - people like the Okudas, Doug Drexler, Greg Jein, Rick Sternbach, Andrew Probert, Bill George, John Eaves, Tom Scherman, Dave Merriman, Ed Miarecki, and many others.

Gary


----------



## Steve H

starseeker said:


> There were actually two exterior crash sets. First season had the panelled straight sides and the low front windo sill, second season the sides were the windows were enlarged and higher and the hull sides extended upwards much farther and numerous other changes made. There is no single Jupiter 2. There are actually five possible variations. I'm dancing with getting a new kit of any of them.


I'm catching up on this monster thread and have some stuff to say later, but I had to stop and comment here.

Starseeker, help me out, my eyes are bad and I might be reading that studio blueprint you posted wrong.

Does it seem to say that the fins on the core RETRACT? Because that would be one of those "dahh HUH?" features that I don't think ever got used in the show, much like how exactly the Chariot was stowed (and how 'knocked down' it was, per the 'I'll assemble the Chariot' line)


----------



## Carson Dyle

Gary K said:


> ...getting the chance to meet & know the behind-the-scenes guys who are responsible for the shows/movies you watch - people like the Okudas, Doug Drexler, Greg Jein, Rick Sternbach, Andrew Probert, Bill George, John Eaves, Tom Scherman, Dave Merriman, Ed Miarecki, and many others.


Well, I guess it was bound to happen sooner or later. Gary's going all Celeb and name-droppy on us. Cuz, you know, we haven't had enough of _that _lately. 



Kidding aside, I think it's high time Gary stepped out of the shadows and took a bow. Aside from being one of the nicest guys I've met in the hobby, he knows his Trek and IA technology backwards, forwards, upside-down and inside-out. He _kills_ himself sweating the details and making sure the dots connect accuracy-wise, and we Moebius fans are lucky indeed to have him on the case.

Okay Gary, stop schmoozing your fans and get back to work on those Spindrift drawings!

(Did I type that out loud? Again?):hat:


----------



## Paulbo

Carson Dyle said:


> He _kills_ himself sweating the details and making sure the dots connect accuracy-wise, and we Moebius fans are lucky indeed to have him on the case.


Gary is fantastic! I've got a case of whatever he's drinking with his name ready for Wonderfest as a big thank you for research he did for me.


----------



## flyingfrets

beatlepaul said:


> That sounds great Drew!!!
> 
> Currently I still have a set of Lunar Models 1/32 Robinson Family(In the silver space suites), Dr.Smith(In his Military overalls) ,MaJor Don West(also in his space suite) and the Robot..I also have an extra Prof.Robinson with his jet pack in 1/32 scale..
> 
> But I like the idea of the Robinsons standing in the frezeing tubes


Hey BP! How ya been?

Listen, in the course of researching the crew kit for the old Polar J2, I discovered that while Lunar always listed *their* crew at 1/32 scale, they were in reality *1/48*. And the set I had was very crudely molded greasy orange resin (bordering on unusable). Unless Randy corrected those issues after he bought Lunar, I'm afraid the set you have will be useless with Moebius' new kit.

Just a heads up...


----------



## starseeker

Fins, yes, in theory anyway, they were supposed to retract. The landing gear didn't have the separate flaps they designed. Instead, to clear the hull, the gear dropped straight down a couple scale inches and then extended.


----------



## teslabe

I saw Ron Gross's cover art for the new J2 kit over at Cult TVman's site. Very very nice, can't wait to see it on the box.......:thumbsup: Ron, do you sell lithos of your work?


----------



## Media Robinson

As long as modeling doesn't turn you into such a overweight pallid shut in mutant that she'd have nothing to fear if you did go to bars.:wave:


----------



## Captain Han Solo

flyingfrets said:


> Hey BP! How ya been?
> 
> Listen, in the course of researching the crew kit for the old Polar J2, I discovered that while Lunar always listed *their* crew at 1/32 scale, they were in reality *1/48*. And the set I had was very crudely molded greasy orange resin (bordering on unusable). Unless Randy corrected those issues after he bought Lunar, I'm afraid the set you have will be useless with Moebius' new kit.
> 
> Just a heads up...


Thanks for the tip Bud!

But if the kit is even close to the Current Flying Sub, It should work:thumbsup:You see, I actually put a couple completed figures in my Flying Sub to see how it would look with figures..and the Lunar Professor Robinson looked great:thumbsup:I wouldn't have posted what I did/said unless I tested/checked the figures first.But I appreciate your Tip.

And the kit I have, the figures aren't Crude at all, you must have gotten one of the older(1980's) Kits. Mine, While not perfect, should be fine..Again if the Jupiter Two is close to the same scale as the Flying Sub, Which I think Gary Ker already Pointed out!

High Regards,
BP


----------



## teslabe

GEH737 said:


> Wow....
> 
> Over 40 years now... I've been down the path of Lunar, Custom Minatures, ICONS, Sci-Fi Metropolis and Polar Lights. I respect every effort of the indivduals that produced (or tried to) a replica of my beloved Jupiter II. I hope this is the one, and from the sounds of it, it has all the possibility of bringing the dream of a great model of my favorite spaceship to life. I am really looking forward to this...
> 
> George


I too have been down the very same path, only to be frustrated with every offering and left with a bad feeling of being ripped off or lied too.....:drunk: I know that with every IA offering that Moebius has done, they have just made me so very happy and amazed with how fine a kit they have made......:thumbsup: An earlier post asked how we can remain so calm. Well,
at least for me, I'm not, I just hold it back very well......:freak:


----------



## spindrift

Ron's new Jupiter 2 box art is ASTONISHING- captures the lines and thrill of the ship landing/launching from a typical IA planet! Great shading and overall atmosphere! I was disappointed in the 1/128 Seaview box art quite abit...but love this! The 1/350 Seaview also is excellent..kudos!
You are going to sell ALOT of kits this year, Frank. Just wait...
Gary:hat:


----------



## Media Robinson

THis is the first I heard of a smaller Moebius version. COuld be real useful. I still have my PL one too.


----------



## toyroy

starseeker said:


> ...The landing gear didn't have the separate flaps they designed. Instead, to clear the hull, the gear dropped straight down a couple scale inches and then extended.


Since you mentioned the landing gear- just how _did_ the pad doors move? You can see them moving out of the way, perpendicular to the gear wells. I've got photos of ramps on the underside of the lower hull, where they supposedly slid. What _I_ can't tell is: whether they simply slid obliquely on the ramp, or whether they pulled back a bit from the hull surface, before moving to the side...


----------



## Ron Gross

teslabe said:


> I saw Ron Gross's cover art for the new J2 kit over at Cult TVman's site. Very very nice, can't wait to see it on the box.......:thumbsup: Ron, do you sell lithos of your work?


Thanks very much. Since it was a work for hire, I can't make those decisions. But if Frank could work out the necessary details with Kevin Burns, I would certainly cooperate in any manner asked of me.
Ron G.


----------



## Gary K

Carson Dyle said:


> Well, I guess it was bound to happen sooner or later. Gary's going all Celeb and name-droppy on us.


Oh, you're just mad that I left your name out...



Carson Dyle said:


> Kidding aside, I think it's high time Gary stepped out of the shadows and took a bow. Aside from being one of the nicest guys I've met in the hobby, he knows his Trek and IA technology backwards, forwards, upside-down and inside-out. He _kills_ himself sweating the details and making sure the dots connect accuracy-wise, and we Moebius fans are lucky indeed to have him on the case.


Well done - your check is in the mail!


----------



## teslabe

Ron Gross said:


> Thanks very much. Since it was a work for hire, I can't make those decisions. But if Frank could work out the necessary details with Kevin Burns, I would certainly cooperate in any manner asked of me.
> Ron G.


I will stay tuned for that....:wave:


----------



## Ron Gross

spindrift said:


> Ron's new Jupiter 2 box art is ASTONISHING- captures the lines and thrill of the ship landing/launching from a typical IA planet! Great shading and overall atmosphere! I was disappointed in the 1/128 Seaview box art quite abit...but love this! The 1/350 Seaview also is excellent..kudos!
> You are going to sell ALOT of kits this year, Frank. Just wait...
> Gary:hat:


Well now, those remarks really made my day. Thank you very much. The artwork is actually an updated/improved version of a similar piece that I did several years ago. Since I knew that Kevin Burns already liked the concept, I thought I would just run with it, and hopefully eliminate all of the approval anxiety. I am uploading an image of my resource material that may be of some interest. The B&W inset photo is of my own 10-1/4" scratch build, which I'm proud to say, is still very much intact, now 12 years later. The background is a photo by Jef Furtado of the Trona Pinnacles near LA, where much of the effects work for LIS was originally shot.

Now, a question. Are you guys referring to the image that Steve has on his site, or is there something else out there already? If it's the former, there is actually quit a bit more to the uncropped composition, but that will have to wait until Frank gives the word.
Ron G.


----------



## teslabe

Ron Gross said:


> Well now, those remarks really made my day. Thank you very much. The artwork is actually an updated/improved version of a similar piece that I did several years ago. Since I knew that Kevin Burns already liked the concept, I thought I would just run with it, and hopefully eliminate all of the approval anxiety. I am uploading an image of my resource material that may be of some interest. The B&W inset photo is of my own 10-1/4" scratch build, which I'm proud to say, is still very much intact, now 12 years later. The background is a photo by Jef Furtado of the Trona Pinnacles near LA, where much of the effects work for LIS was originally shot.
> 
> Now, a question. Are you guys referring to the image that Steve has on his site, or is there something else out there already? If it's the former, there is actually quit a bit more to the uncropped composition, but that will have to wait until Frank gives the word.
> Ron G.


It's the artwork on Cult TVman's site that I saw.


----------



## Dar

Ron Gross said:


> Now, a question. Are you guys referring to the image that Steve has on his site, or is there something else out there already? If it's the former, there is actually quit a bit more to the uncropped composition, but that will have to wait until Frank gives the word.
> Ron G.



Looks like they are talking about whats on Cults Site. Excellent by the way. You were messing with me yesterday. The boxart been done all along.
As with everyone else here your artwork is just amazing. It always has that flavor of years gone by.:thumbsup::thumbsup: Looks like I will be buying(once again) one to keep unopened just to display the box art. Done that with most of the models with your artwork on them.


----------



## Richard Baker

> It's the artwork on Cult TVman's site that I saw.


Where? I tried to find it and I cannot see a clue about this kit.

.


----------



## Ron Gross

Richard,
Try this link:

http://www.culttvman2.com/dnn/Features/News/tabid/384/Default.aspx


----------



## Steve244

Ron Gross said:


> Richard,
> Try this link:
> 
> http://www.culttvman2.com/dnn/Features/News/tabid/384/Default.aspx


It's grinning at me. Kinda evil like. :thumbsup:


----------



## Richard Baker

That worked- thanks!

That is some great srtwork there. I liked the original PL Box Art as it reflected the old Aurora packaging- like a kit they produced (as they should have) inthe heyday. This goes beyond that into what looks good for the vehicle itself. 
A nice swooping in landing which I wish the show would have been able to manage. Mostly they always seeemed to make planetfall withthe gear up and crashing beyond a hill ridge.
Very well done sir!

.


----------



## Antimatter

Cool baby, cool.


----------



## Dar

Antimatter said:


> Cool baby, cool.


Isnt it though.:thumbsup: I cant wait to set it next to my unopened Polar Lights kit.


----------



## Antimatter

Looks like it will have fins on the core. If you blow up the picture, you can see the John and Don characters and it looks like them too. I know the kit doesn't have figures but the picture is still cool to look at.


----------



## Antimatter

Ron Gross said:


> Well now, those remarks really made my day. Thank you very much. The artwork is actually an updated/improved version of a similar piece that I did several years ago. Since I knew that Kevin Burns already liked the concept, I thought I would just run with it, and hopefully eliminate all of the approval anxiety. I am uploading an image of my resource material that may be of some interest. The B&W inset photo is of my own 10-1/4" scratch build, which I'm proud to say, is still very much intact, now 12 years later. The background is a photo by Jef Furtado of the Trona Pinnacles near LA, where much of the effects work for LIS was originally shot.
> 
> Now, a question. Are you guys referring to the image that Steve has on his site, or is there something else out there already? If it's the former, there is actually quit a bit more to the uncropped composition, but that will have to wait until Frank gives the word.
> Ron G.


Here is the one Ron was taking about he did several years ago. Great work by the way, Ron.

http://uncleodiescollectibles.com/img_lib/01 Ron Gross Art Gallery 01 1-28-5.jpg


----------



## Ron Gross

That image is the older, similar piece that I referred to earlier, but not the one that that will be used for the new kit. The color scheme and background elements are a little different. The detail on the new one also greatly enhanced. Once again, I chose this route to circumvent the approval issues, because Kevin had already given a thumbs up to the earlier one.
Ron G.


----------



## Ron Gross

Antimatter said:


> Here is the one Ron was taking about he did several years ago. Great work by the way, Ron.
> 
> http://uncleodiescollectibles.com/img_lib/01 Ron Gross Art Gallery 01 1-28-5.jpg


Woops, sorry I didn't see that you already acknowledged that when I did my last post. Thanks again for all of your kind comments.
Ron G.


----------



## teslabe

This all has me way to excited, excluse me, oh.......... I'm done..... What was
the question again????????


----------



## Seaview

Holy Alpha Control!!!! Ron, you've done it again! Breathtakingly BEAUTIFUL!!!!


----------



## Steve H

starseeker said:


> Fins, yes, in theory anyway, they were supposed to retract. The landing gear didn't have the separate flaps they designed. Instead, to clear the hull, the gear dropped straight down a couple scale inches and then extended.


Wow...wow...sorry to come across as a LIS virgin but I'm seeing things I've never seen before with those blueprints.

I recall seeing a pic of the core, with the big a** bulbs and the metal fins, and they seemed mounted oddly but I don't think they could retract. I didn't seen anything like the kind of 'brute force' mechanism that would have been used.

So, there's the Chariot hatch. Hoping not to start that feud again, does that make these the plans for the 10' hero?

It's fascinating how that mirrors the way the styrofoam J2 from the Mattel 'Switch and Go' delux playset was laid out. Man, I wish I still had that, that poor, crude, simple foam ship endured many crash landings...

I can see how having the separate doors over the hinge mechanism would have been mechanically more complex and doing the 'unseat then extend' makes more sense, esp. if it was a close-up of the underside and you didn't see the top.


----------



## Gemini1999

toyroy said:


> Since you mentioned the landing gear- just how _did_ the pad doors move? You can see them moving out of the way, perpendicular to the gear wells. I've got photos of ramps on the underside of the lower hull, where they supposedly slid. What _I_ can't tell is: whether they simply slid obliquely on the ramp, or whether they pulled back a bit from the hull surface, before moving to the side...


At least I know that I'm not the only one that is fascinated with the operation of the landing gear on the Jupiter 2. Having the series makes analyzing the process makes it less challenging though. I've never seen the filming models in person and I've only gotten what I've seen from watching the DVD's closely, but when it comes to the pad doors, they do seem to pull inwards a bit and then slide out of the way. The first time I noticed this, I was really surprised. I had always thought that the bottom of the landing pads themselves were the exact fit for the pad opening, so when the gear retracted into the gear well, it was all buttoned up.

When I think of what the effects guys came up with for a filming model back in the 60's, it just blows my mind. Rotating lights, retractable landing gear, sliding doors (pads and pod bay), etc. The Jupiter 2 was a pretty sophisticated model for a TV series given the budget and how rarely the model was actually used.

In terms of modeling, I've seen so many variations and so many interpretations....all done to recreate the same functions many years later and with more modern modeling techniques. I've always held the Jupiter 2 in very high esteem when it comes to a TV series spacecraft. Some might think of it as just a "silver saucer", but for some of us it, it really fires the imagination and takes us back to our childhood.

After seeing the box art for the new kit, I'm really jazzed at getting the chance to get a larger and in most ways, a better, more detailed kit of this particular bit of SciFi history.

Bryan


----------



## BatToys

Is the landing gear optional? It can be built with the landing gear permanently down or "flying" with the gear removed?


----------



## bert model maker

This is great news


----------



## Y3a

the cables that pulled the doors out of the way also pulled them up a bit at the beginning, before they slid out of the way. this worked in reverse when the doors plunked back into the hole made by the retracted leg and the 3 sides of the gear well. The Jupiter 2 Autopsy shows the sliding and the angle of the ramp a lot better than I can describe.


----------



## Y3a

The 60 foot measurement was based on a (now lost) interview with Howard Lydecker. He said the J2 was supposed to be 60 feet across so thats what they calculated in doing the high speed photography. Perhaps its more artistic license on the Lydeckers part, I don't know. Does anyone have copies of the plans used to make the 4 foot hero? Not the discarded variants like the Gemini 12 but the 1st season Jupiter 2 before the Pod.


----------



## Ron Gross

If all the plans for the original hero miniature were available today, they still couldn't be relied upon. For whatever reason, significant modifications were made in the actual construction phase compared with the surviving Fox profile, giving this particular model it's own unique character. As some may recall, this was the subject of some fairly extensive research that I did many years ago, with the result being my scratch build and related article.

In this case, Gary had access to a copy of the hero miniature, and was able to take very precise measurements. He did an excellent job of recreating the contour of our beloved J2 for this project. He also came up with an interesting theory as to why the end result was different than the Fox profile. If correct, it was nothing more than a series of accidents, which really doesn't surprise me. And by the way, the new plans turned out to be ridiculously close to what I had hand drawn as far back as 1993.
Ron G.


----------



## toyroy

spindrift said:


> ...I was disappointed in the 1/128 Seaview box art...


I'm not. I really like it! Chris did that one, I think. 

Ron does good work, too.


----------



## toyroy

Y3a said:


> the cables that pulled the doors out of the way also pulled them up a bit at the beginning, before they slid out of the way. this worked in reverse when the doors plunked back into the hole made by the retracted leg and the 3 sides of the gear well...


That's what I thought you said, some time back. I just couldn't remember if it was regarding the _actual_ operation of the hero pad doors.


----------



## toyroy

Ron Gross said:


> ...In this case, Gary had access to a copy of the hero miniature, and was able to take very precise measurements. He did an excellent job of recreating the contour of our beloved J2 for this project...


Excellent. Good choice, Moebius. You shouldn't go around scaring people that they're gonna get a big plastic cowpie, representing that plywood eyesore used for the stage set. _That's_ the Jupiter 2 seen almost every week...


----------



## Steve244

Gary K said:


> Everybody has been assuming the Jupiter 2 will be a 1/32 scale model. Close, but no cigar. Long story, but the Moebius model had to be 18" or less in diameter. I started designing the kit by experimenting to see what size of hero miniature would best encompass the studio interior set. The best fit occurred with a 52 ft exterior - and since the Jupiters that were seen onscreen varied in size from 40'-96', I didn't worry that the Moebius version wasn't the oft-quoted 48'.
> 
> I wanted to make the model 1/32 scale, but that would have been too large. 1/35 was the next closest common modeling scale, and since that would put the model's diameter just under 18", that's the scale I chose. Your army men should fit inside just fine.
> 
> Here's a rough schematic (not a final, polished plan) that shows how the interior fits inside the model. The studio set is undistorted, except where I had to squish the windows slightly and move the control panels slightly outboard to match the lower, wider proportions of the hero miniature.
> 
> Gary


Something about that shape makes my blood flow a little quicker. (and I don't mean the Dr. Smith manikin.)


----------



## Argonaut

Though my fav IA ship is the SPINDRIFT the inpending arrival of this kit
is making MY pulse race too!! I will be hard to top the FLYING SUB but
if it even comes close, it will be the best J2 ever made. I'll have to buy
two kits though, just as I did with the nice PL kit: one for gear up the
other, down. Dang it!:freak:


----------



## Gary K

Steve244 said:


> Something about that shape makes my blood flow a little quicker. (and I don't mean the Dr. Smith manikin.)


"Dr. Smith manikin"?? That's a tracing of me, you mendacious message boarder!
In-DEED, sir!


----------



## robiwon

Oh and just think of the lighting possibilities! That has me real excited! No one may be able to say yet but I hope the fusion core has the "fins" all the way around it.


----------



## StarshipClass

Gary K said:


> Everybody has been assuming the Jupiter 2 will be a 1/32 scale model. Close, but no cigar. Long story, but the Moebius model had to be 18" or less in diameter. I started designing the kit by experimenting to see what size of hero miniature would best encompass the studio interior set. The best fit occurred with a 52 ft exterior - and since the Jupiters that were seen onscreen varied in size from 40'-96', I didn't worry that the Moebius version wasn't the oft-quoted 48'.
> 
> I wanted to make the model 1/32 scale, but that would have been too large. 1/35 was the next closest common modeling scale, and since that would put the model's diameter just under 18", that's the scale I chose. Your army men should fit inside just fine.
> 
> Here's a rough schematic (not a final, polished plan) that shows how the interior fits inside the model. The studio set is undistorted, except where I had to squish the windows slightly and move the control panels slightly outboard to match the lower, wider proportions of the hero miniature.
> 
> Gary


I appreciate your hard work and the compromise at 52'. 1/35th is a great scale as is 1/32nd.

However, my personal preference is to go for the smaller diameter hull at 43.6' to get more of a feel similar to that of the studio set and the full scale mock up. 1/32nd ought to do that just fine and should keep the furniture mostly in scale. 

I look forward to seeing the results of your work, sir!:wave:


----------



## starseeker

Ron Gross said:


> If all the plans for the original hero miniature were available today, they still couldn't be relied upon. For whatever reason, significant modifications were made in the actual construction phase compared with the surviving Fox profile, giving this particular model it's own unique character. As some may recall, this was the subject of some fairly extensive research that I did many years ago, with the result being my scratch build and related article.
> 
> 
> Ron G.


indeed. the only studio bp of the j2 that i've seen is in richard messman's lis technical manual. as detailed as the irwin allen bps were, there were always some differences by the time the hand made miniatures were finished. attached is a plan of the j2 i made from the bp, superimposed on gary kerr's cutaway of the moebius j2. it would be easier to compare the two if i could figure out how to change the color of a line drawing in photoshop, but right now my computer won't even let me use a capital letter in this post. sigh.
but, comparing the two, in this overlay gary kerr's upper hull is a tiny bit taller than the bps and the lower hull is considerably shallower than the bps. needless to say, i'm trusting anybody who has access to the miniature over the bps.


----------



## Seaview

Argonaut said:


> Though my fav IA ship is the SPINDRIFT the inpending arrival of this kit
> is making MY pulse race too!! I will be hard to top the FLYING SUB but
> if it even comes close, it will be the best J2 ever made. I'll have to buy
> two kits though, just as I did with the nice PL kit: one for gear up the
> other, down. Dang it!:freak:


I did the same thing with both the LM and the PL Jupiter 2's, and will happily do the same with this new Moebius kit. What the heck; COLLECT 'EM ALL!  
Oh, and while I'm in complete agreement about that other vessel you mentioned, rest assured that with this being truely the Merry Mobius Age Of Modelling, we have only to be patient. Me? I'm in my "happy place".


----------



## starseeker

As (ah ha! restarting the computer got my capitols back!) far as the landing gear goes, here's a drawing I made of the extension. The foot panel retracts, slides away, the gear drops, then unfolds. Really a remarkable mechanism. 
As for making the gear retractable, my J2 must weigh six or eight pounds. The folding landing gear doesn't have to support that weight. The folding part of the gear are nothing more than pivoting links. The near vertical landing gear strut (on mine it was something like a 1/4" brass or aluminum tube) is what takes all the weight and as long as there's no torque involved ( don't twist the model after it has landed - you might rip the hinges) those struts under a vertical load are extremely solid. So for anyone wanting to make folding gear or anyone thinking of making an after market part, do try it. I remember that some corrugated rubber grips off a cheap mechanical pen or pencil were the perfect size and pattern to replicate the flexible corrugated cover over the link just above the landing gear foot. Wonder if whatever brand that was is still available.


----------



## Gary K

Ron Gross said:


> In this case, Gary had access to a copy of the hero miniature, and was able to take very precise measurements. He did an excellent job of recreating the contour of our beloved J2 for this project. He also came up with an interesting theory as to why the end result was different than the Fox profile. If correct, it was nothing more than a series of accidents, which really doesn't surprise me. And by the way, the new plans turned out to be ridiculously close to what I had hand drawn as far back as 1993.
> Ron G.


In 1993, Ron traced his Jupiter 2 profile using the proverbial "stone knives and bearskins", yet arrived at profile that was amazingly close to that of the hero miniature. I'm impressed!

Here is a full explanation of my theory re. the differences between the profiles of the hero model and the studio plans:

When they made the pattern for the J2, they probably either lathed it from wood, or they cut out a profile template of each hull half and rotated the screed around a plaster-covered form. For an illustrated explanation of the use of a screed, see Phil Broad's excellent article at http://cloudster.com/HowToSection/AxialSymmertricShapes.html

I've got full-size studio plans of the revisions to the 4' and 10' studio miniatures - the main change being the deepening of the lower hull, made necessary by the addition of a lower level to the ship. I lofted contours from my casting of the 4' hero miniature's hull and made templates from heavy poster board. When I overlaid them onto the studio plan, the profiles didn't match; however, when I rotated each template slightly, they DID match pretty well.

Based on my preliminary measurements, it looks like the guys at Fox cut out templates, based on the studio plans, but the templates (or screeds) weren't horizontal when they rotated them around to form the pattern. When they formed the upper hull, the center portion of the screed was too high, resulting in a slightly "domier" hull. On the lower hull, the center of the screed was slightly too low, and the lower hull is shallower than shown on the studio plans.

The end result is that the lower hull of the hero model is proportionally shallower than blueprinted. I think it would be interesting to see a model of the J2 based on the intended design.

Gary


----------



## Opus Penguin

I know we will hear more soon, but I sure hope if the tooling is done, then it means it might be released later this year or very early next year at the latest. If this year, I know what I am getting for Christmas :woohoo:


----------



## starseeker2

Moved to a different thread


----------



## Ron Gross

Gary K said:


> In 1993, Ron traced his Jupiter 2 profile using the proverbial "stone knives and bearskins", yet arrived at profile that was amazingly close to that of the hero miniature. I'm impressed!


Now that Gary has replied, I guess it's OK to show this. Attached is my master profile with an overlay of the new CAD design. As you can see, my lower level is a little deeper, but I have to confess that this was not my primary area of emphasis at the time. My focus was on the all-important upper deck contour, and I can honestly say that I slept pretty well when I saw this comparison several months ago. This is the plan that Polar Lights wound up using as a general guide.

Can you guys tell that we're all pretty excited about this new kit?
Ron G.


----------



## starseeker2

I cannot begin to describe what a thrill it gives me to see this thing again. This Moebius announcement has me so excited I had to dig it out. 
Sorry about the picture quality. I can't figure out how to control aperture in the flash off mode of my camera. 
All hatches work - viewports, scanners, inner and outer airlock, and ladder top observation dome. 
The fins extend.
The landing gear retracts.
Every single stupid lightbulb on every the control panels is represented by a fibre optic strand that is sourced at one of the sequencing Christmas tree bulbs, so they all flash seemingly randomly (unless you look closely, and then you can see a repeating sequence of 8).
The astrogator raises up on an old walkie talkie antenna into the dome. (That's why I'm able to shoot pictures at the front of the control room - a large opening access panel at the upper deck so I can push the astrogator up and down.
Thank you thank you Moebius for putting one of these into kit form. 
If I can figure out how to take some better shots, I'll post them (on a new thread, and nuke these soon anyway either way, as I don't want to hijack this one)
Well, I know what I'm playing with this weekend!


----------



## Ron Gross

This is an amazing piece of work, sir. Please post all of the pics that you can.
Ron G.


----------



## Capt. Krik

Ron Gross said:


> Thanks, but may I ask where you saw it? I didn't know it was out there yet.
> Ron G.


Actually, Frank has a thread running in this forum where he has a picture of the mock-up and a photo of the box art.

Looking forward to this kit.

Oh yeah! Forgot to mention how much I loved your Flying Sub box art. Excellent painting! I especially loved the water effects. I could never get water to the point where i liked it but those splashes of water around the FS-1 look fantastic.


----------



## Carson Dyle

Ron Gross said:


> For whatever reason, significant modifications were made in the actual construction phase compared with the surviving Fox profile


Yeah, this would seem to have been a fairly common scenario. I can’t speak for every FX miniature built by Fox during the mid-to-late 60’s, but there are (for example) significant differences between the studio blueprints for the Proteus and the completed FX miniature, both in terms of the details as well as the general contours. 

In some cases the discrepancies between drawing and model are likely due to the sort of “production error” Gary K hypothesizes to account for the “slightly domier” contours of the J-2 hull. In the case of the Proteus it’s my (unproven) theory that the studio draftsmen created revised drawings prior to construction of the miniature and full scale mock-up; drawings which, since they were never widely distributed, never made it into the hands of someone like Gary or Phil Broad, or into the “public domain” of fan sites like this.


----------



## teslabe

Capt. Krik said:


> Actually, Frank has a thread running in this forum where he has a picture of the mock-up and a photo of the box art.
> 
> Could you please tell us where this tread is? I'd love to take a look.


----------



## Antimatter

Ron, did you ever do any drawings of the Proteus? I guess Fox still has the rights the ship itself. Now that would be the next big thing besides the Spindrift that us fans would like to see in a model. Both are long overdue IMHO. Maybe in time.


----------



## Antimatter

Ron, did you ever do any drawings of the Proteus? I guess Fox still has the rights the ship itself. Now that would be the next big thing besides the Spindrift that us fans would like to see in a model. Both are long overdue IMHO. Maybe in time.  I know th Spindrift was done by Aurora but the Proteus was not. I still can't understand why the J-2 was never done until you got the ball rolling.


----------



## Antimatter

Capt. Krik said:


> Actually, Frank has a thread running in this forum where he has a picture of the mock-up and a photo of the box art.
> 
> Could you please tell us where this tread is? I'd love to take a look.


http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/attachment.php?attachmentid=81818&d=1240537694


----------



## nautilusnut

*J-2 Consolidated threads*

The J2 was never knitted by Aurora because upper management thouth the design, "too simple." Dave Cockrum said it was the most requested kit they never did.


----------



## Antimatter

nautilusnut said:


> The J2 was never knitted by Aurora because upper management thouth the design, "too simple." Dave Cockrum said it was the most requested kit they never did.


Talk about goofs. :freak:


----------



## teslabe

Antimatter said:


> http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/attachment.php?attachmentid=81818&d=1240537694


Thank you, I see the cover art, but not the picture of the mockup.
Or am I just dim????


----------



## toyroy

A couple years ago, Y3a was kind enough to measure the angles of his four footer's lower hull for me. The results provided a profile a bit shallower than the one Ron Gross posted on CultTVMan's site. The drawing I made from the measurements, including Ron's profile for comparison, may still be on the Replica Prop Forum board.

In addition to the causes cited above for the discrepancies with the drawings, I wonder if some optical distortions may have been introduced during filming or post-processing?


----------



## Ron Gross

Antimatter said:


> Ron, did you ever do any drawings of the Proteus? I guess Fox still has the rights the ship itself. Now that would be the next big thing besides the Spindrift that us fans would like to see in a model. Both are long overdue IMHO. Maybe in time.  I know th Spindrift was done by Aurora but the Proteus was not. I still can't understand why the J-2 was never done until you got the ball rolling.


No, I have to confess that I never drew the Proteus, but did have a definite weakness for it. I always thought that it was very Irwin Allen-ish, with the front windows, top dome, et all. Was it also a William Creber design?

As for Aurora, I do remember a filling out a form for a contest they ran sometime in the mid/late '60's for kit suggestions. I'm assuming that it came in one of the monster kits, because I collected most of them. You don't have to guess what my suggestion was. Then, some 30 years later, I'm called upon to be involved in the project that finally corrected their mistake. For me, it doesn't get much better than that.
Ron G.


----------



## toyroy

starseeker2 said:


> ...This is 1/24...and entirely scratchbuilt using stone tools, wood, metal, plastic, a vac formed hull, 6 volt mini lamps and sequencing Christmas tree lights, among other antiques...


You did the lights in the beam edges. Nothing says "we're on the Jupiter 2" more than those pulsating beams. :thumbsup:


----------



## Captain Han Solo

The creator of the Proteus was the geat Harper Goff, who also created the Naultius from the Disney 20.000 Leagues Of the Sea...


It is Superdidleyooper!!!!


----------



## Ron Gross

toyroy said:


> A couple years ago, Y3a was kind enough to measure the angles of his four footer's lower hull for me. The results provided a profile a bit shallower than the one Ron Gross posted on CultTVMan's site. The drawing I made from the measurements, including Ron's profile for comparison, may still be on the Replica Prop Forum board.
> 
> In addition to the causes cited above for the discrepancies with the drawings, I wonder if some optical distortions may have been introduced during filming or post-processing?


Roy, 
Please refer to my post #189 earlier today. I'm also willing to bet that you're right about the possible optical distortions.
Ron G.


----------



## toyroy

Ron Gross said:


> Roy,
> Please refer to my post #189 earlier today. I'm also willing to bet that you're right about the possible optical distortions.
> Ron G.


Hi Ron,
Yes, I read that before posting. Didn't you also write something somewhere about PL going with a slightly deeper lower hull profile, to accomodate the lower deck interior?


----------



## Richard Baker

> The creator of the Proteus was the geat Harper Goff, who also created the Naultius from the Disney 20.000 Leagues Of the Sea...


Didn't he also design the ship from 'Flight of the Navigator'? IIRC in an interview he was asked why didn't he make the UFO a saucer- he responded that he had already done a saucer...

.


----------



## Ron Gross

toyroy said:


> Hi Ron,
> Yes, I read that before posting. Didn't you also write something somewhere about PL going with a slightly deeper lower hull profile, to accomodate the lower deck interior?


Yes, I believe I did, but I have to confess that the lower deck is not something that I officially supported. I would have preferred that they had done the leg wells in the manner that we will see on the new kit. That's not to say, however, that I didn't appreciate some of the spectacular build-ups that some wound up doing in this area.

I will also mention that I have had my share of e-mails over the years asking why the PL kit didn't look exactly like my prototype. In addition to the above, there was another variable. Back at that time, we didn't go directly from drawing to test shot, as we essentially do today. Polar Lights employed an intermediate prototyping company in Chicago where I first met Dave at a meeting. While they did a good job overall, this process did involve another design layer that had the potential to introduce discrepancies. There were also tooling considerations involved with some of the differences. My way of handing this scenario was to do my series of "construction tips" (most of which were mods) that Cult hosted on his site. The idea kept it fun and positive, and overall, I think it worked out pretty well.
Ron G.


----------



## BatToys

I took two rulers to get an idea of the 18" J-2 diameter. It seemed small for a Supersized kit by Moebius standards. The diameter thats seems right to me is 23".

But I know the 18" is set in stone.


----------



## Steve H

Ron Gross said:


> Yes, I believe I did, but I have to confess that the lower deck is not something that I officially supported. I would have preferred that they had done the leg wells in the manner that we will see on the new kit. That's not to say, however, that I didn't appreciate some of the spectacular build-ups that some wound up doing in this area.
> 
> I will also mention that I have had my share of e-mails over the years asking why the PL kit didn't look exactly like my prototype. In addition to the above, there was another variable. Back at that time, we didn't go directly from drawing to test shot, as we essentially do today. Polar Lights employed an intermediate prototyping company in Chicago where I first met Dave at a meeting. While they did a good job overall, this process did involve another design layer that had the potential to introduce discrepancies. There were also tooling considerations involved with some of the differences. My way of handing this scenario was to do my series of "construction tips" (most of which were mods) that Cult hosted on his site. The idea kept it fun and positive, and overall, I think it worked out pretty well.
> Ron G.



Ron, if I may, I'd like to thank you not only for the huge work you did on the PL Jupiter 2, but for also keeping a positive attitude after the event. I've known plenty of people who, in your position, would have gotten quite huffy that their 'baby' wasn't translated EXACTLY as designed and constantly exploding at those that thought the final kit lacking in some areas.

(I mean, seriously, if they couldn't work the pilot seats into the tool, couldn't they have at LEAST made them seat-like and not park benches?!  )

and now you got a second shot, with all the info that's come to light over the intervening years you get to tweak and refine and it seems a beautiful thing indeed is the result.

It also seems like it's going to be a monster. I hope if Mobie does the 'smaller' secondary kit it's like 1/72 scale or 1/144, a standard scale like the 1/350 Seaview.

Good times, good times...


----------



## Ron Gross

Thanks very much. But let's not forget that my role this time around was one more of consultation to Gary's excellent efforts. And, of course, concentrating on the artwork.


----------



## falcon49xxxx

"Even if it was perfect.there would still be some who would bitch and moan"


----------



## toyroy

I'm also looking forward to correctly-scaled freezing tubes. No criticism of the Polar Lights Jupiter 2 intended. That goes for my previous comment regarding the hull profile, too. 

Perhaps, Moebius can do the gravity "ball" a little differently. And put the correct number of divisions on the astrogator. And the fins on the landing pads.


----------



## toyroy

falcon49xxx said:


> "Even if it was perfect.there would still be some who would bitch and moan"


The same things, said NOW, might actually be of use.


----------



## Ron Gross

I think you can count on all of that.

Now, I will share something that I don't think I've ever addressed before. The tubes for the PL J2 were correctly scaled to my smaller, 10-1/4" prototype. For some reason, they were inadvertently not scaled up to the new 12" size by the intermediate prototyping company. There were other interior appointments that suffered the same fate. I think you can understand why I thought it best not to address these issues at the time. As it was, we were still treated to some pretty fantastic build-ups from modelers who were effective in creating a very convincing overall illusion.


----------



## falcon49xxxx

the model is going into production now,that means that all the "wishin and hope'in" is pointless.


----------



## Captain Han Solo

falcon49xxx said:


> the model is going into production now,that means that all the "wishin and hope'in" is pointless.


 
Superdidleyooper!!!!


----------



## teslabe

falcon49xxx said:


> "Even if it was perfect.there would still be some who would bitch and moan"


I'm just so happy it's being done and appreciate the fact that it's Moebius who took the time to do it, that for me is priceless. What I hear from frank and company, it's perfect....... My only wish would be that I had it now. The wait is going to kill me.......


----------



## Captain Han Solo

This is not the moebius kit!!!

Just to get an idea..This is Master Modeler Jim Key's 18" Model...Jim had access to the original 4' Miniature.


----------



## bert model maker

Ron, I wanted to let you know how much I admire your work & dedication to the Jupiter 2. Your scratch built Jupiter-2 is OUTSTANDING. how you got it so correct by scratch is a testament to your talent.
Bert


----------



## Ron Gross

Bert,
Thanks so much. BTW, I love your custom image. How do you get one of those?


----------



## Captain Han Solo

Some Pics of the original 4' Hero being restored....


----------



## Steve H

Ron Gross said:


> Thanks very much. But let's not forget that my role this time around was one more of consultation to Gary's excellent efforts. And, of course, concentrating on the artwork.


Of course, and Gary clearly has 'done the job' and we'll all soon be agasp, I'm sure.

Just kinda sorta wanted it be known that for all the praise for the new J2 that's going on, some weren't forgetting what you had done 

Your 'how to build' with the fixes for the unintended simplifying of the PL kit were very interesting to read, for example.

I guess, and this sound silly, I didn't want you to (in some way) the 'forgotten man' like what happened with Star Trek and Andrew Probert, who seemed to fall 'out of favor' with Paramount when discussing the behind the scenes of Star Trek: TNG and it was all Rick Sternbach this and that... (and not to diss on Sternbach either, he kept things 'right' for YEARS), and only in like the past 10 years came back into the limelight for his outstanding work on ST:TMP and the early days of TNG.

Not, um, that making a cult boutique model kit is the same as making a multi-million Dollar franchise thing...um...wait...I'm losing track now.. 

OK, so just thank you


----------



## Ron Gross

Got it! It's all cool.


----------



## xsavoie

Does anyone know the scale of the Johnny Lighning (Polar Lights) L.I.S. Robot.If in 1/32 scale,then it would fit great with the Aurora (Polar Lights) L.I.S. Cyclops,Robinson Family figures.How precise is it anyways.


----------



## Seaview

Good heavens! I forgot all about that! Yes, the JL Robot is very close to the same scale as the Cyclops/Robinsons kit, AND it will fit with the new Moebius Jupiter 2!!!! EUREKA! You've solved a mystery before I even thought of it!


----------



## bert model maker

Ron Gross said:


> Bert,
> Thanks so much. BTW, I love your custom image. How do you get one of those?


it took a lot of work & the help of another member who is no longer here who did the script writing. I uploaded it in 2002. Since then, things have changed on how to put one on here. 
Bert


----------



## bert model maker

I wonder if the new Jupiter 2 will have the side porthole next to the hatch already cut out ?


----------



## Richard Baker

My robot is 2 1/2" tall- though the bubble top is a bit high in proportion. If you were to shorten the bubble top accordian a bit and remove the foot wheels he is 2 3/8" tall. 

.


----------



## Captain Han Solo

Seaview said:


> Good heavens! I forgot all about that! Yes, the JL Robot is very close to the same scale as the Cyclops/Robinsons kit, AND it will fit with the new Moebius Jupiter 2!!!! EUREKA! You've solved a mystery before I even thought of it!


 
I may be wrong, But I believe those figures and Robot will be too Big:freak:.

I put them in My Si-Fi Metropolis 2' Jupiter Two..and My 2' Lunar Jupiter Two and they looked OK. And at 2' In Diameter, It's roughly 1/26 Scale. Mr Kerr stated that the new J2 is almost 1/32..But Not quite..Big Difference.


----------



## toyroy

Richard Baker said:


> My robot is 2 1/2" tall- though the bubble top is a bit high in proportion. If you were to shorten the bubble top accordian a bit and remove the foot wheels he is 2 3/8" tall.


We're talking 1/35, here. Also, the Johnny Lightning Robot is not the most accurate model. An aftermarket Robot can be _far_ superior.

On the other hand, Tamiya makes 1/35 figures for their armor line. At the least, one should be good for an early Smith in uniform. Plus, there's fixin's for bashed laser pistols and rifles.


----------



## drewid142

I'll be including a Robot in my figures sets! I'm already working on it. I'm going to make sure to have this set finished way in advance this time! I am a HUGE fan of this particular subject... so I will be throwing extra love into these guys! And the Robot will be lightable!

NOTE - New Caster doing the Flying Sub Figures, JetPack Figures, 1/72 Proteus, Giant Wetsuit Lady Proteus Display figures, and Giant Bikini Lady Spindrift Display figures... we are working to scale up production to fill orders in a timely fashion. I should be fully caught up on Flying Sub orders in a few weeks. I apologize... but Chariot Figures are still back ordered coming from a different caster... I will resolve that situation very soon. Quality has been maintained... but quantity is suffering and there are quite a few people that still want to order those.


----------



## teslabe

drewid142 said:


> I'll be including a Robot in my figures sets! I'm already working on it. I'm going to make sure to have this set finished way in advance this time! I am a HUGE fan of this particular subject... so I will be throwing extra love into these guys! And the Robot will be lightable.


Hi drewid142, before I offer these blinky light units, I'd like all the third party
companies that do lighting, to let me know if they are going to offer something like this, if so, I will not...... I only have seven for sale.


----------



## toyroy

drewid142 said:


> I'll be including a Robot in my figures sets! I'm already working on it...I will be throwing extra love into these guys!...


Hi Drewid,
I hope your Robot model will be accurate to the show Robot. Please tell us you're not just re-sizing the Aurora version. I don't mean that as any sort of accusation, mind you. The Aurora has been copied so much, it has attained an unfortunate status of recognition.


----------



## Seaview

beatlepaul said:


> I may be wrong, But I believe those figures and Robot will be too Big:freak:.
> 
> I put them in My Si-Fi Metropolis 2' Jupiter Two..and My 2' Lunar Jupiter Two and they looked OK. And at 2' In Diameter, It's roughly 1/26 Scale. Mr Kerr stated that the new J2 is almost 1/32..But Not quite..Big Difference.


You are not wrong, but as usual, are absolutly correct. I have my JL Robot B-9 standing next to my Moebius Chariot and he looks just about right for 1/25 scale, which would make him abnormally large in a 1/32 or 1/35 scale setting.
However, with Drew working on the figures including a Robot, it's entirely a moot point, because I'll be getting his set(s). Even though the prototypes haven't even been carved yet, I already know his creations will do justice to this particular kit.
Even with the beautiful LM and PL versions of the Jupiter 2 I have in my collection, I'm must admit that THIS is the one I've been waiting for since September, 1965.
Thank you, Frank, Dave, Kevin, Shiela, Drew and all the rest of you who have made this a reality; you've made this 50-year-old geezer feel like 7 again. :wave:


----------



## drewid142

I have to admit I don't have the robot started yet... The figures, on the other hand, are well on their way. I don't work from models and I don't do any 3D scanning of physical parts, so the existing robot kit is only a minor influence. I will create original geometry from whatever drawings I can round up... so by all means... point me at the drawings you believe are the accurate seen on screen robot, please. I'm pretty sure I will round up the right ones... but if you know where they are already... send me an email at [email protected].

Teslabe... I'll be making the robot lighting friendly, but I myself do not do lighting kits... so I just don't know how to answer your question... but that blinky looks really cool!

Seaview... to say that I am honored to be lumped in with that list is an understatement... I will try to do this subject justice! I'm as excited as you guys about it!


----------



## bert model maker

Amen Seaview, me too Since 1965. I have 2 lunars 16.5 & 24 inch & the Polar lights Jupiter 2. beatlePaul, do you have the space pod & if so, how does it scale up the the 2 ft. Jupiter 2 ?


----------



## Y3a

Here is an image of the gear. I used a photoshop image of the leg from some web site(actual leg from J2) and drawings from ToyRoy of the J2 profile. The footpad has to be recessed a bit so the door can be put in place. The clearance of the footpad is such that if it's not precisely aligned(spun to one side or the other) it will snag on the edge of the gear well. The foot can pivot, but should NOT spin.


----------



## Y3a

More images from inside the hero....


----------



## DROIDR2

This will be great. Can't wait. :woohoo:

Has there been an estimated time of release stated yet?


----------



## Antimatter

I can see the landing legs being held in by some sort of pins this go around. With gear wells, I don't see making the legs retractable to difficult for us builders.


----------



## StarshipClass

Richard Baker said:


> My robot is 2 1/2" tall- though the bubble top is a bit high in proportion. If you were to shorten the bubble top accordian a bit and remove the foot wheels he is 2 3/8" tall.
> 
> .


I've done that and agree that he comes in at about 1/32nd scale. I'm also resculpting him a bit to get the contours a little more accurate. I plan to make some custom decals for his chest plate and speaker light details.


----------



## xsavoie

So what you guys are saying is that the Johnny Lightning Robot could be modified to fit in the 1/32 scale category and be suitable in size for the Moebius Jupiter 2.Now are the Robinson figures from the Aurora kit in the same 1/32 scale size and fit also well with the Moebius Jupiter 2 spaceship.But according to DREWID and the other modelers,1/35th scale would be more accurate.If DREWID makes these Lost in Space figures,will they be the silver suited ones with laser weapons in similar action poses as the Aurora figures.If not,what will be the poses of these figures.I guess it might be easier for DREWID to modify already existing 1/35th scale figures on the market rather than start from scratch.But then again,who knows what sculptors find easier to do.


----------



## DROIDR2

DROIDR2 said:


> This will be great. Can't wait. :woohoo:
> 
> Has there been an estimated time of release stated yet?


No, there has not been a release date specified as yet.
:beatdeadhorse:


----------



## DROIDR2

DROIDR2 said:


> No, there has not been a release date specified as yet.
> :beatdeadhorse:


Thank You R2 for answering my question. :wave:


----------



## toyroy

model maker said:


> I wonder if the new Jupiter 2 will have the side porthole next to the hatch already cut out ?


And, will the hatch slide open?


----------



## DROIDR2

DROIDR2 said:


> Thank You R2 for answering my question. :wave:


No problem R2... happy to help. :thumbsup:


----------



## toyroy

Another opportunity is a 1/35 chariot. It would be about 5 5/8" long. Another Moebius mini-kit, complete with 1/35 Robot?


----------



## starseeker

I didn't think it would work this way, but it does: if you print out Gary Kerr's profile above at 18" in diameter, and assume the Jupiter 2 is 48' in diameter, then it's a perfect 1/32. The sketched figure is then approx 2.25" tall, which works out to 1/32 for a 6' human. This IS going to be a sweet kit.


----------



## Opus Penguin

DROIDR2 said:


> Has there been an estimated time of release stated yet?


I suspect we will hear something at Wonderfest next month on a release date. Just a guess though, I have no inside info.


----------



## Mark Dorais

I hope the exterior hatch location and porthole match up with the hero 4ft. miniature's farther out location to maintain FIDELITY to the look of the ship we love from the small screen. I am aware that this would not match up the the geometry of the interior. For those wishing to modify this, it would be nice to have an optional hatch impinted on the interior for the option of opening it.


----------



## Antimatter

DROIDR2 said:


> No problem R2... happy to help. :thumbsup:


.........nevermind.


----------



## bert model maker

I hope the hole for the side porthole is already cut out.


----------



## toyroy

^ Sounds reasonable to me. And a clear porthole insert, with decent optics.


----------



## bert model maker

thats right, and hopefully a 2 piece fusion core to eliminate masking a lot of clear panes, & correct, elevator.


----------



## AJ-1701

model maker said:


> thats right, and hopefully a 2 piece fusion core to eliminate masking a lot of clear panes, & correct, elevator.


Here here I'll be putting money on it being the same as the pod. Very simple and ingenius creative forthought. This is giving me the same AN...TIS...IPATION ans the big Seaview did. :thumbsup:

Alec.


----------



## AJ-1701

drewid142 said:


> Regarding Drew's Figures... Someone asked if I would be doing them in the cryotubes... yes
> 
> I am so excited about this kit... and I already have invested so much time making what were going to be figures scaled to the Polar Lights kit... here's what i will be coming out with..
> 
> Set 1 - Silver Suits in Cryotubes... no robot, but a Smith in shirt and tie in action pose
> Set 2 - Silver suits... a few doubles... Robot included... some seated, some standing
> Set 3 - Uniforms... similar to set 2.
> Set 4 - Gadgets... picnic tables, dish washer, laundry, drilling rig, etc.


I like the idea of the coloured suits only because this model will have a lot of silver/aluminium colour so the colour contrast would look good. 

Maybe John and Don at the console with Smith and will posed to hover on or around the astrogater and judy behind Don with Maureen comforting Penny so they could be put behind John or near Will n Smith.... 

Sorry Drew just thinking with the keyboard....

Cheers,

Alec.


----------



## toyroy

model maker said:


> ...a 2 piece fusion core to eliminate masking a lot of clear panes...


Important point! 



model maker said:


> ...& correct, elevator.


Right. No clear plastic "tube" to have to cut away.


----------



## toyroy

Antimatter said:


> I can see the landing legs being held in by some sort of pins this go around. With gear wells, I don't see making the legs retractable to difficult for us builders.


I disagree. Simple hinged gear should actually _streamline_ the tooling, and make for an easier build, compared with the Polar Lights design.

Starseeker said that the gear pivots drop down a couple scale inches to provide clearance. I had not heard this before. I don't think it's really kinematically necessary.


----------



## starseeker

Beautiful landing gear sequence in The Derelict that shows the suck up of the small covers and the pop down of the gear before the rotate out. 
I have my fingers crossed that any retractable gear won't be too simplified. I know it has to be robust enough and easy enough for beginning modelers, but any extra detail and function they might have allowed will still be welcome by all us Sunday morning engineers. 
I'm just wondering which of you crazy builders is going to be the first to motorize your gear. I have my suspicions...


----------



## toyroy

Y3a said:


> Here is an image of the gear...The footpad has to be recessed a bit so the door can be put in place. The clearance of the footpad is such that if it's not precisely aligned(spun to one side or the other) it will snag on the edge of the gear well. The foot can pivot, but should NOT spin.


My idea for the kit, as produced, is a manually operated gear. I've been working on this for my cardstock J2 designs, so you know it's got to be simple. I'd make it so the fusion core can rotate by hand. Turn it one way, and the pad doors open, the gear deploys, and then locks in place. Turn the opposite way, and the sequence reverses, retracting the gear. For those who wish to go beyond, and motorize the gear, the fusion core activator can be detached from the mechanism.

I got the initial inspiration for this idea from a plastic kit of a swing-wing jet. I don't remember the exact model, but it was from the 1960's. If you pulled the one wing, the other would come out the same amount. There were gear segments molded on the interior part surfaces, which forced the synchronization of the wing movement.


----------



## toyroy

starseeker said:


> Beautiful landing gear sequence in The Derelict that shows...the pop down of the gear before the rotate out...


I just reviewed that footage, in slow motion, and I'm sorry to say I don't see any "pop down of the gear." At least, not in the sense of any movement of the leg pivots. You _can_ clearly see that the planned-for flaps by the fusion core are not on the actual hero prop.


----------



## gareee

A few thoughts... I LOVE the idea of a Moebius kit, and I'll sell my old unbuilt PL kits to finance it.

Not including figures or at least the robot seems like a poor plan to me. I simply cannot justify spending twice the cost of a kit to buy all the things that should have been included in it.

I HOPE we'll FINALLY see ALL lightable parts cast in clear, instead of solid colors, requiring MORE aftermarket replacement parts. Again, this it my biggest disapointment in all the Moebuis kits. I don't have the time to make molds and recast everything in clear myself, and I again cannot justify doubling the price of a completed kit by purchasing aftermarket replacments parts.

PLEASE consider us kit builders on a limited budget!


----------



## Antimatter

gareee said:


> A few thoughts... I LOVE the idea of a Moebius kit, and I'll sell my old unbuilt PL kits to finance it.
> 
> Not including figures or at least the robot seems like a poor plan to me. I simply cannot justify spending twice the cost of a kit to buy all the things that should have been included in it.
> 
> I HOPE we'll FINALLY see ALL lightable parts cast in clear, instead of solid colors, requiring MORE aftermarket replacement parts. Again, this it my biggest disapointment in all the Moebuis kits. I don't have the time to make molds and recast everything in clear myself, and I again cannot justify doubling the price of a completed kit by purchasing aftermarket replacments parts.
> 
> PLEASE consider us kit builders on a limited budget!


Please consider that Moebius has a bottom line and has to make a profit or no more models. You have to take the good with the bad.


----------



## Ductapeforever

Models are designed to be built to present a pleasing representation as is, out of the box. Moebius does take the builder in mind when designing kits. They are fans and builders also. But this is a business, models are expensive to create the tooling for. The more features - the more expensive. Since models are a petroleum product, they are heavily effected by the price of oil as well. Gone are the days of model cars for a few bucks. Frank and Dave are doing the impossible, giving us models of subjects we've waited all our lives for. Ease up on them. It's a great time to be in this hobby.


----------



## Dar

Ductapeforever said:


> Models are designed to be built to present a pleasing representation as is, out of the box. Moebius does take the builder in mind when designing kits. They are fans and builders also. But this is a business, models are expensive to create the tooling for. The more features - the more expensive. Since models are a petroleum product, they are heavily effected by the price of oil as well. Gone are the days of model cars for a few bucks. Frank and Dave are doing the impossible, giving us models of subjects we've waited all our lives for. Ease up on them. It's a great time to be in this hobby.


Agreed. The models as is are still great after completion. Any aftermarket parts and accurizing is icing on the cake. I can understand that some cannot afford the expensive lighting, figures, etc. for some of these models. BUT thats ok. Nice paint jobs and assembly go along way for a pleasing finished product.:thumbsup: if some feel the need to have more and cannot afford it its probably best to purchase the model and buy the extras when money allows.


----------



## Antimatter

Most people I know that lighted their models use the light a few times and then once in a blue moon. I know when people come to the house most of the times the models I have never get a second look. Only 1 out of 100 even care about model building.


----------



## drewid142

Buzz Kill


----------



## BatToys

Does anyone make an aftermarket real crystal glass windshields for these kits?
Would real glass show the interior better than distorting plastic?


----------



## Y3a

starseeker said:


> Beautiful landing gear sequence in The Derelict that shows the suck up of the small covers and the pop down of the gear before the rotate out.
> I have my fingers crossed that any retractable gear won't be too simplified. I know it has to be robust enough and easy enough for beginning modelers, but any extra detail and function they might have allowed will still be welcome by all us Sunday morning engineers.
> I'm just wondering which of you crazy builders is going to be the first to motorize your gear. I have my suspicions...


The footpad door DO pull up a little bit before sliding out of the way, but the main gear legs are firmly attached to the ship at the back ends, and NO drop or movement from that position would be possible. Photos exist of both the back of the leg sowing the place metal rod goes through the leg and where that mounts to the bracket on the hull. the back of the leg at the bottom has a length of the wider bottom sheet remved so the sides are flush for the pivot action. I've studied all the gear clips, both real speed and the slowed down versions from the TV show. The back end of the gear with the control arm does not drop.


----------



## StarshipClass

I've started playing around with a video editing program so I may try to rig up some sort of gear lowering system even if it doesn't lock into place automatically.

What about spring activated struts that pop open when the landing gear footpads pull out of the way?


----------



## Y3a

Working gear might be a great aftermarket product.


----------



## starseeker

Y3a: I could have sworn I saw the landing gear legs drop in some sequence. I don't see it in The Derelict, tho. So far I've only burned the 1st season DVDs but I'll take a look at my VHS if I can remember any other landing sequences. 
But, in The Derelict, when the J2 is about to land, we don't see the foot doors retract or slide. When the shot begins, they're already open. At that point you can see by the shadows around one and the edge of one other (screen left) that the landing gear legs are evenly proud of the hull all around their perimeters. They're not flush with the hull as you'd expect them to be when they're fully retracted. I can't remember if I just assumed from this that the legs would have to drop down evenly all around before unfolding, if I actually saw them do that somewhere, or if I just rejected the idea that the legs on the miniature stayed proud of the hull and made up my own explanation. ???


----------



## Antimatter

drewid142 said:


> Buzz Kill


Buzz Lightyear.


----------



## RSN

starseeker said:


> Y3a: I could have sworn I saw the landing gear legs drop in some sequence. I don't see it in The Derelict, tho. So far I've only burned the 1st season DVDs but I'll take a look at my VHS if I can remember any other landing sequences.
> But, in The Derelict, when the J2 is about to land, we don't see the foot doors retract or slide. When the shot begins, they're already open. At that point you can see by the shadows around one and the edge of one other (screen left) that the landing gear legs are evenly proud of the hull all around their perimeters. They're not flush with the hull as you'd expect them to be when they're fully retracted. I can't remember if I just assumed from this that the legs would have to drop down evenly all around before unfolding, if I actually saw them do that somewhere, or if I just rejected the idea that the legs on the miniature stayed proud of the hull and made up my own explanation. ???


It is amazing what our mind does to fix Irwin Allenizms (?). I could have swarn I remembered Don pressing a button and the flight chair unfolded in "Relucant Stowaway". I also thought I saw him open the panel that covered the flight controls. The release of the uncut Columbia House tapes, then the DVD's, proved they had never been there and were not just removed over the years for more comercial time in syndication.


----------



## Lou Dalmaso

^^^ would that be a case of Irwin Alzheimer's?


----------



## starseeker

Hey, I'll have you know I resemble those remarks.
Edit: looking at a VHS copy of the Derelict (which is all I had back then - altho the one I used was from TV a decade before Columbia House, and I've taped it over, and now can't tell if anything was clipped from "unedited" versions) I also can't really see the foot door retract and slide, and I'm sure (?) I've seen it much more clearly than that. What other episodes had landing sequences, other than the ever repeated landing in the circle?


----------



## Gary K

starseeker said:


> But, in The Derelict, when the J2 is about to land, we don't see the foot doors retract or slide. When the shot begins, they're already open. At that point you can see by the shadows around one and the edge of one other (screen left) that the landing gear legs are evenly proud of the hull all around their perimeters. They're not flush with the hull as you'd expect them to be when they're fully retracted. I can't remember if I just assumed from this that the legs would have to drop down evenly all around before unfolding, if I actually saw them do that somewhere, or if I just rejected the idea that the legs on the miniature stayed proud of the hull and made up my own explanation. ???


On the full-scale J2 mock-up, the trapezoidal cover on the underside of the landing stairs was slightly wider than the stairs, themselves. Presumably, the J2's designers intended that the landing legs would retract flush with the hull, like the landing gear of aircraft, and the covers would fit into lips along the edges of the gear wells. 

The 4 ft hero miniature was built more crudely, so they had to cheat when they designed the retractable landing gear. The landing gear well was merely an opening cut into the fiberglass hull, and there were no lips for the gear covers to fit into. Instead, they made the gear covers slightly wider than the openings in the hull. When they pulled the cables to retract the gear, the covers pulled up snug against the hull, instead of retracting flush with it. Maybe a little crude, but it did the job and fooled me when I was a kid.

Btw, in "The Derelict" you CAN see the footpad covers retract as the ship lands. The scene is fairly dark, but if you look closely you can see it. Here's a greatly lightened cap of the closed footpad cover & non-flush landing leg cover:










And here is the retracted cover:










You can also see the legs retract and the footpad covers slide & drop into place in a takeoff scene in a 3rd season episode (I forget the name of the episode, but this shot is from "Lost in Space Forever":










Gary


----------



## Richard Baker

Testtunneler said:


> I heard they also re-used the footpads for the wreck of Brent and Skipper's ship in BTPOTA


They used the whole landing leg assembly- looked good too.


----------



## Antimatter

What was funny was in the second season when they escaped the planet, only to crash again 2 episodes later, the J-2 takes off from the crash position and the landing legs show down then retract. Continuity was a very weak point for any IA show.


----------



## toyroy

starseeker said:


> ...I also can't really see the foot door retract and slide, and I'm sure (?) I've seen it much more clearly than that. What other episodes had landing sequences, other than the ever repeated landing in the circle?


You can see a bit of the pad door slide during "The Derelict" lift-off. Not as good as in season three's "Junkyard of Space" episode, though.


----------



## toyroy

Antimatter said:


> ...the J-2 takes off from the crash position and the landing legs show down then retract...


Did they _ever_ lift off from a planetary crashsite, _without_ the gear deployed?


----------



## Ron Gross

Not that I can recall. But one way it can be rationalized (at least in the world of IA) is that the gear had been lowered at the point of liftoff to provide a natural lift on occasions when the lower deck was buried beneath the surface.


----------



## toyroy

BatToys said:


> Does anyone make an aftermarket real crystal glass windshields for these kits?
> Would real glass show the interior better than distorting plastic?


Perhaps microscope slides would work. Otherwise there's Plexiglass and Lexan, which can be had in fairly small pieces. Even vacuformed clear bubble packaging is often optically good.


----------



## toyroy

toyroy said:


> Did they _ever_ lift off from a planetary crashsite, _without_ the gear deployed?





Ron Gross said:


> Not that I can recall. But one way it can be rationalized (at least in the world of IA) is that the gear had been lowered at the point of liftoff to provide a natural lift on occasions when the lower deck was buried beneath the surface.


That stands to some reason. I wonder what IA thought about it?


----------



## Ron Gross

toyroy said:


> That stands to some reason. I wonder what IA thought about it?


I wonder if IA cared about it? My guess is no.


----------



## Richard Baker

toyroy said:


> Perhaps microscope slides would work. Otherwise there's Plexiglass and Lexan, which can be had in fairly small pieces. Even vacuformed clear bubble packaging is often optically good.


Check into Office Supply stores- they have a thin acetate used for report covers that works well. It may not be marked as such, but it is stiff instead of rubbery if you flex it.

.


----------



## toyroy

PerfesserCoffee said:


> I've started playing around with a video editing program so I may try to rig up some sort of gear lowering system even if it doesn't lock into place automatically.
> 
> What about spring activated struts that pop open when the landing gear footpads pull out of the way?


Sounds like a good way to get kicked, Perfesser! :lol:

Spring it _closed_. Then, your gear winder will hold your gear down for you.


----------



## starseeker

BatToys, head to your nearest good hobby shop, one that sells model railroads or flying models as well as plastic models. A shop with a big selection will have clear Evergreen in inexpensive small sheets as well as clear copoly in small sheets and various thicknesses. The 020 to .040 clear copoly makes great windows and great scratch built replacement Chariot parts. Pick up some hobby adhesive for clear parts like canopies while you're at it. You don't want to use anything that will mar your new viewports. The clear Evergreen is a bit more brittle than the poly but a bit easier to cut. Don't remove the protective backing on the clear poly until you're ready to install. Both are as clear as glass (no distortion and they look perfectly invisible when dust free) and a whole lot safer to work with. The poly attracts more static electricity and thus more dust. You really want to have access to the inside of your windows after you've finished all sanding and make sure the inside of your model is perfectly dust free before closing it up, if you are closing it up.


----------



## starseeker

Gary K, thanks for that info! What would we do without you?


----------



## toyroy

toyroy said:


> That stands to some reason. I wonder what IA thought about it?





Ron Gross said:


> I wonder if IA cared about it? My guess is no.


I think the gear _must_ have complicated the lift-off special effects shots somewhat. I figure IA must have ordered them done that way- probably to add visual interest. _Could_ he have entirely avoided the questions it raised?


----------



## Richard Baker

Just don't show the actual lift off. The Flying Sub and Spindrift both took off from a number of surfaces (other than water) and they avoided showing how it was done. Not too sure about the timing, but it is possible they were done that way to not go through what they did with the J-2.


----------



## GKvfx

toyroy said:


> That stands to some reason. I wonder what IA thought about it?


"Irwin liked orange" - Bill Creber, Feb. 2008 

Gene


----------



## toyroy

Richard Baker said:


> Just don't show the actual lift off...


That's the best part of the show! You can have Dr. Smith, and ALL the winky-dink aliens, too. Just give me the J2 special effects shots!


----------



## bert model maker

Looking at the jupiter 2 autopsey DVD I have, the footpad covers slid to the side of each leg opening with a little rod, maybe spring loaded.


----------



## Richard Baker

toyroy said:


> That's the best part of the show! You can have Dr. Smith, and ALL the winky-dink aliens, too. Just give me the J2 special effects shots!


Hey- I live for the hardware more than they people wiggling in front of it.
I was just suggesting a why they could have avoided the problems showing lift-off on a TV budget.


----------



## Gemini1999

*Scale J2 Landing Gear...*

Hey folks -

Since we've kind of been focusing on the landing gear at this point in the discussion, it reminded me of a buildup of the J2 that was made to resemble the Innovation comics version that cropped up in the 1990's. The look of the model may not be very aesthetically pleasing to some, but there was one feature of the model that seemed very true to the version we all know and love. The buildup featured articulated and functional landing gear. There's a lot of detailed photos on the CultTVman website:

http://www.culttvman2.com/dnn/Features/Articles/tabid/74/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/20/Default.aspx

The landing gear is based off of a Lunar Models J2, but the mechanism created to make the gear retract is really clever. Along with the pics, there's a fair amount of text to go along with it. The article doesn't mention anything about the landing pad doors, but the idea of having a manually retractible landing gear setup is very attractive.

Bryan


----------



## Y3a

Since the take-off shots were of the GEMINI 12 Which didn't HAVE GEAR.......


----------



## X15-A2

...except when they showed liftoff shots with the gear retracting...


----------



## Richard Baker

I always wanted to see how the Robot got down the stairs when the J-2 was resting on the Landing Gear. He went doen them on "The Phantom Planet" but it was off camera.


----------



## Seaview

I figure that he got down the landing stairs one step at a time, because his "feet" operated independently of each other when he wasn't rolling around on his tracks. This also explains how he as able to change directions.
However, I can NOT explain how in the heck he disembarked from the Chariot, or clambered back into it. I've been scratching my head over that question for almost 44 years now! :freak:


----------



## toyroy

Richard Baker said:


> I always wanted to see how the Robot got down the stairs when the J-2 was resting on the Landing Gear. He went doen them on "The Phantom Planet" but it was off camera.


He would have simply stepped down them. If you watch early first season footage of the Robot, you'll see that his feet worked independently. For practical reasons, they bolted them together later on.


----------



## Antimatter

Seaview said:


> I figure that he got down the landing stairs one step at a time, because his "feet" operated independently of each other when he wasn't rolling around on his tracks. This also explains how he as able to change directions.
> However, I can NOT explain how in the heck he disembarked from the Chariot, or clambered back into it. I've been scratching my head over that question for almost 44 years now! :freak:


The crew took him apart and placed the upper half inside. Mystery solved.


----------



## toyroy

Maybe he had pneumatics in his legs, allowing them to squish down to ultra-low-rider size.


----------



## Y3a

OK heres that photo from the Derelict where you can see the pad door sliding open.


----------



## Ductapeforever

Great shot, also notice the fusion core fins...EXTENDED!


----------



## bert model maker

The autopsey pictures and video i have shows a rod off the the side of each leg well front next to the pad cover and the guy pulled the rod inward pulling the pad cover to the side.


----------



## Richard Baker

toyroy said:


> He would have simply stepped down them. If you watch early first season footage of the Robot, you'll see that his feet worked independently. For practical reasons, they bolted them together later on.


I know his feet moved independently- it is just the size of them on the steps and the amount they would need to extend downwards is what I am puzzeled about. You watch the people do it and they tuck and bend at the top and around the support pole.


----------



## Seaview

Yeah, yeah, I know, there we go again; looking for "common sense details" in the Irwin Allen universe.
When will we ever learn?


----------



## toyroy

Richard Baker said:


> I know his feet moved independently- it is just the size of them on the steps and the amount they would need to extend downwards is what I am puzzeled about. You watch the people do it and they tuck and bend at the top and around the support pole.


Not to mention the size of the accessway to the landing gear in the lower deck.

I'd use the loops on his shoulder plate, to lower him down through the fusion core hatch.


----------



## toyroy

Y3a said:


> OK heres that photo from the Derelict where you can see the pad door sliding open...


The lift-off at the end of the episode shows the pad door movement _much_ better.


----------



## John May

What would be cool, if Moebius models makes a launch pad to go with the J2.


----------



## Ductapeforever

I'm sure the aftermarket community is diligently at work on a launch cradle for the Moebius J2.


----------



## toyroy

model maker said:


> Looking at the jupiter 2 autopsey DVD I have, the footpad covers slid to the side of each leg opening with a little rod, maybe spring loaded.


Y3a figured out how the original hero mechanism worked, and yes, there were springs to retract both the legs and the doors. Really slick, and added so much to the landing and take-off shots.


----------



## toyroy

Ductapeforever said:


> I'm sure the aftermarket community is diligently at work on a launch cradle for the Moebius J2.


That would be really nice! :thumbsup:


----------



## bert model maker

Henry gemini-12 makes a high quality launch pad for the PL Jupiter 2.


----------



## toyroy

This new Jupiter 2 model is going to be displayed a lot of ways. From what was said in previous threads, there will be a number of crash site dioramas made. A lot of those modelers will want a nice 1/35 chariot. Such a model would sell well as a stand-alone kit, too- especially with the availability of complementary figures.


----------



## oshkosh619

Seaview said:


> Yeah, yeah, I know, there we go again; looking for "common sense details" in the Irwin Allen universe.
> When will we ever learn?


LOL... excellent point Seaview.... as many may have forgotten, we were also supposed to believe that he climbed down a vertical ladder extended from the bottom of the J2 with the rest of the crew to get inside the prison ship in *"The Condemned of Space" *(it landed with it's fusion core atop the access hatch.... no landing legs extended, no access from the airlock, allegedly the "escape hatch" mentioned in *The Saucer Fleet* on the bottom of the fusion core was used). I would have _loved_ to watch him do that. Hopefully he went first so if he fell off, he wouldn't flatten any of the Robinsons!


----------



## Y3a

Maybe they didn't use the gravity generator so the Robot just floated from the Jupiter 2 to the main level of the Prison ship. It could also happen in numerous BS scenarios we've come to laugh at from the IA Universe.


----------



## Paulbo

I seem to remember one episode where Dr. Smith "cuts" the Robot in half and the top half floats around. There was supposedly some explanation like the Robot could do twice as much work or something, except that the bottom half doesn't have any pincers to grab anything ... but I digress.

This would imply that there's some sort of antigravity generator in the top half of the Robot - if it's strong enough, it could lift the entire Robot up into the Chariot, or over whatever obstacle is in its way.

As to why it didn't just float around ALL the time? One word: budget


----------



## Lou Dalmaso

he had those same side thruster rockets that R2-D2 secretly had.:tongue:


----------



## Richard Baker

If the Dalaks could oversome stairs- though it took a CGI+Budget to do it.


----------



## JeffG

toyroy said:


> This new Jupiter 2 model is going to be displayed a lot of ways. From what was said in previous threads, there will be a number of crash site dioramas made. A lot of those modelers will want a nice 1/35 chariot. Such a model would sell well as a stand-alone kit, too- especially with the availability of complementary figures.


Been a while since I've seen LIS, but wasn't the crashed, set version yet another variation? I seem to recall it being much smaller looking with the main airlock more in the center and having sharper angles i.e. flatter roof, etc. than the in flight or landed versions.


----------



## Richard Baker

Flat sides, undercut lower hull which then went vertical, different diameter- IIRC Lunar Models had kits of each version in 1/144ish. There was another version for the Landing Gear set- looked cool in the middle of the town in a show I can't recall the title of. Taht one was a smaller diameter with flat sides as well.


----------



## Dar

Paulbo said:


> I seem to remember one episode where Dr. Smith "cuts" the Robot in half and the top half floats around. There was supposedly some explanation like the Robot could do twice as much work or something, except that the bottom half doesn't have any pincers to grab anything ... but I digress.
> 
> This would imply that there's some sort of antigravity generator in the top half of the Robot - if it's strong enough, it could lift the entire Robot up into the Chariot, or over whatever obstacle is in its way.
> 
> As to why it didn't just float around ALL the time? One word: budget



Yeah Doctor Smith wanted to use the lower half as a carry-all to bring him things like a hot luncheon.:lol::lol:


----------



## Seaview

Richard Baker said:


> Flat sides, undercut lower hull which then went vertical, different diameter- looked cool in the middle of the town in a show I can't recall the title of. That one was a smaller diameter with flat sides as well.


You are correct; there were 2 full-sized sets made as well as several "flying" miniatures, each with subtle, different shapes.
The one you are referring to in your post was used in 3 episodes; "The Derelict", "Island In The Sky" and "Visit To A Hostile Planet". This was a full sized mock-up complete with landing gear and a partial interior behind the main viewport and included an airlock. 
In "Island In The Sky" it is seen without the landing gear in the famous Robot "soil sampling" sequence. The reason they used it was because this scene was filmed during the period that the Gemini XII set was being remodelled into the Jupiter 2 set.


----------



## Gemini1999

Richard Baker said:


> Flat sides, undercut lower hull which then went vertical, different diameter- IIRC Lunar Models had kits of each version in 1/144ish. There was another version for the Landing Gear set-* looked cool in the middle of the town in a show I can't recall the title of*. Taht one was a smaller diameter with flat sides as well.


The episode you're thinking of is the 3rd season epsiode "Visit to a Hostile Planet"

Bryan


----------



## Opus Penguin

Gemini1999 said:


> The episode you're thinking of is the 3rd season epsiode "Visit to a Hostile Planet"
> 
> Bryan


Favorite line of mine in that episode was the Robot's "Let's get out of here before these jokers really get me riled up!" That was a fun episode.


----------



## Seaview

"Chickasaw falls, indeed! BAH!"


----------



## Ductapeforever

"The Pain,...Oh the Pain!"


----------



## Richard Baker

"Visit to a Hostile Planet"- a favorite episode though I never get the name to stick.
I loved seeing the J2 in a 'normal' setting and the dialog was just plain fun!

.


----------



## Gemini1999

Richard Baker said:


> "Visit to a Hostile Planet"- a favorite episode though I never get the name to stick.
> I loved seeing the J2 in a 'normal' setting and the dialog was just plain fun!
> 
> .


I think that the only part of the episode that really gets to me now is the scene where the young girl and Will dress the robot up as a scarecrow to get it back to the Jupiter 2.

I love the rest of it though!

Bryan


----------



## Seaview

"Chickasaw Falls, indeed! Wait For Me!"


----------



## toyroy

Seaview said:


> ...In "Island In The Sky" (the full sized mock up) is seen...in the famous Robot "soil sampling" sequence. The reason they used it was because this scene was filmed during the period that the Gemini XII set was being remodelled into the Jupiter 2 set.


What order were the early episodes shot in? Obviously, parts of the interior/exterior set, including the outside of the hatch, were used in all of the early episodes.


----------



## Seaview

First they filmed the Gemini XII "No Place To Hide" pilot episode in Dec. '64-Jan.'65, sold the idea to CBS, and several months later they filmed the first 5 episodes, incorporating the footage and storyline from the pilot.
From what I've gathered from the "Lost In Space Props" Message Board, the "soil sampling" scene was filmed in mid-August, '65, and by the beginning of September,'65 they had the now familiar Jupiter 2 campsite set in front of the cameras.
I believe that the filming schedule for LIS was approximatly one month before air time for each new episode.


----------



## toyroy

^Did they even have the landing gear for the mock-up built, at the time of the soil sampling filming?


----------



## Richard Baker

The "soil sampling" scene really looks good with the underside of the hull visible- it looks like the saucer is just resting on the ground as a ship instead of a big round aluminm house.


----------



## JPhil123

Seaview said:


> First they filmed the Gemini XII "No Place To Hide" pilot episode in Dec. '64-Jan.'65, sold the idea to CBS, and several months later they filmed the first 5 episodes, incorporating the footage and storyline from the pilot.
> From what I've gathered from the "Lost In Space Props" Message Board, the "soil sampling" scene was filmed in mid-August, '65, and by the beginning of September,'65 they had the now familiar Jupiter 2 campsite set in front of the cameras.
> I believe that the filming schedule for LIS was approximatly one month before air time for each new episode.


Hi, All.
Anyone have any ideas about trying to bash the new Moebius Jupiter 2 into a version resembling Gemini XII? I need to see the kit first obviously, but I was thinking about buying two of the new kits when available and giving a Gemini XII buildup try on, and a straight Jupiter 2 buildup on the other. Maybe the stock build would be first so as to gain familiarity with the new model.

It is terrific that we will see a new and no doubt more accurate model!

Jim


----------



## Seaview

toyroy said:


> ^Did they even have the landing gear for the mock-up built, at the time of the soil sampling filming?


 
First off, congratulations for your 2,000th post on HobbyTalk! Go on over to the kitchen and either grab a beer or a cookie, whichever you're in the mood for, Roy!
To answer your question, I really do not know, but would surmise that they did have the landing gear already made prior to the soil sampling scene, because judging by production order of the scripts, they had just filmed "The Derelict" a week previously.
Both the fusion core and the landing gear were detachable, as both were seen as various set decorations in later episodes. The fusion core, for instance, was used as a rim for the giant spider's cage in the two parter, The Keeper, as well as for the base of the "Change Of Space" Intergalactic Special Mail Delivery spacecraft (which was a re-decorated VTTBOTS "Apple One" Diving Bell), as a cieling decoration in "His majesty Smith" (my personal favorite episode) and for the base of Zalto's Missile in the second season episode, "Rocket To Earth" (the episode guest starring Al "Grandpa Munster" Lewis).
The landing gear steps were used for Marvello's rocket in "Space Circus" and as bleechers in some other later episodes in both the 2nd and 3rd seasons.


----------



## toyroy

JPhil123 said:


> ...Anyone have any ideas about trying to bash the new Moebius Jupiter 2 into a version resembling Gemini XII?...


We'll have to check with the judges, but I think you win the prize for broaching the subject first...


----------



## toyroy

Seaview said:


> First off, congratulations for your 2,000th post on HobbyTalk! Go on over to the kitchen and either grab a beer or a cookie, whichever you're in the mood for, Roy!.


Thank you, that's very kind. It seems like only four years ago that I was a "member". Talk about starting at the bottom! 

Of course, I've been called a "member" when I've needed to do unpopular things- all us men have. And I've certainly thought "what a 'member'" so-and-so was, in some situation. Anyway, I'm sure I'll always be "that 'member' Roy" to some people. 



Seaview said:


> ...To answer your question,...judging by production order of the scripts, they had just filmed "The Derelict" a week previously...


Whatever the reason for it, I like the use of the mock-up in the crash site scenes. :thumbsup:


----------



## Richard Baker

The filming miniatures also showed up as set decorations- I remember seeing th e4 footer as a piece of equipment in an Alien lab.


----------



## Ron Gross

That was probably "Cave of the Wizards."


----------



## robiwon

Any chance of seeing the new J2 prototype at Wonderfest in a few weeks?


----------



## starseeker

Cleaning up the wreckage of the model shop and happened across Messman's LIS Tech Manual. On the blueprint for the full-size, free-standing J2 mockup, as originally desned at least, the landing gear were practical. They were supposed to be retractable and the foot doors were supposed to slide, just like the miniature. Can't help but wonder if this was actually built into the mock up and if so, why? I can't recall ever seeing it used.
The repro in the magazine is really poor - this is as good as I can scan it. That's the Chariot ramp on the right.
Also as an interesting side note, I just noticed on the blueprint changing the ship's profile from the G12 to the J2, a note that says the 4' was to be "for flying only, No Items noted pract to operate. 10' 0" min. noted pract to operate as indicated". So at one point, they were going to use the 10' as their workhorse for all the FX shots. Wonder if they did build all those operating bits into the 10'.
Probably pointless to speculate, but there in an interview in an old LISFAN (#1), LB Abbot said that the pod was dropped from "a two foot doameter Jupiter 2 with the mechanical sophistication capable of performing the lowering and recovery". I always wondered about that statement. The 2'?? But nobody knew that the 10' even existed back them. Can't help wonder if (interviewer) Jeff Blair didn't mishear ten for two? Abbott says the 4' was used for take off and landing and the original crash.


----------



## X15-A2

The 10' model did have all the working features, I can testify to that (I climbed up on its belly to look down through the hole where the fusion ring was mounted. It was sitting upside down).


----------



## Y3a

I hear the 10 foot J2 was too heavy to do the shots with. It was planned to be used as a scaling model for a shot where the Cyclops comes to 'visit' the camp after being shot earlier. 

Greg Jeins J2 that is at Seattles sci-fi museum is the 4 footer which was used for the pod dropping scenes. Azarians Collection has the Gear J2.


----------



## Ron Gross

Y3a said:


> I hear the 10 foot J2 was too heavy to do the shots with. It was planned to be used as a scaling model for a shot where the Cyclops comes to 'visit' the camp after being shot earlier.


As an art project in the 8th grade, I remember constructing a cardboard J2 by putting together conic sections (cut out a ring, make a verticle cut, fold, repeat) on a paper mache base. The top dome came from a trinket container that you can still find in dispensers near various store fronts. I borrowed the Giant from the Aurora kit, and essentially duplicated the scene that you describe above.


----------



## Gary K

starseeker said:


> On the blueprint for the full-size, free-standing J2 mockup, as originally desned at least, the landing gear were practical. They were supposed to be retractable and the foot doors were supposed to slide, just like the miniature. Can't help but wonder if this was actually built into the mock up and if so, why? I can't recall ever seeing it used.


In "The Derelict", the entire landing gear wells were visible, but in "Visit to a Hostile Planet", the footpad doors were in place. At least, the area of the footpad doors was covered. I'm not sure whether the doors were practical, or if the area was covered in VTAHP to hide some internal structure inside the mock-up.

Gary


----------



## Moebius

robiwon said:


> Any chance of seeing the new J2 prototype at Wonderfest in a few weeks?


If you don't mind seeing it in pictures!


----------



## toyroy

X15-A2 said:


> The 10' model did have all the working features, I can testify to that (I climbed up on its belly to look down through the hole where the fusion ring was mounted. It was sitting upside down).


Did the gear legs close flush with the hull, or parallel to, but outside it, as on the 4' hero?


----------



## spocks beard

X15-A2 said:


> The 10' model did have all the working features, I can testify to that (I climbed up on its belly to look down through the hole where the fusion ring was mounted. It was sitting upside down).


Hi, Are there any active links to info regarding the 10 J2? I never knew FOX had constructed a model that big for the show.I'm very interested in reading about it.Does any one know if it still exists, Or has been restored?


----------



## StarshipClass

starseeker said:


> Cleaning up the wreckage of the model shop and happened across Messman's LIS Tech Manual. On the blueprint for the full-size, free-standing J2 mockup, as originally desned at least, the landing gear were practical. They were supposed to be retractable and the foot doors were supposed to slide, just like the miniature. Can't help but wonder if this was actually built into the mock up and if so, why? I can't recall ever seeing it used.


If I'm not mistaken, the full scale mock-up was used on set for the post-crash scenes early and briefly during the series. The landing gear were retracted for those shots after having been extended for the shots in the alien spacecraft in a previous episode. 

The process of retracting them on the full scale mock-up was never shown but if they were able to do that with stage hands or by motors, it could have made for some great take-off sequences with Dr. Smith hanging onto the landing pads during take-off.


----------



## robiwon

Moebius said:


> If you don't mind seeing it in pictures!


That will do good to hold me over for a while! Can't wait to be there! Thanks.


----------



## Richard Baker

I won't be able to make it to Wonderfest this year so any images of this would be enjoyed!

.


----------



## X15-A2

Hi all, the gear legs of the 10' model closed flush but as I recall, the feet were missing so I could not comment about them. The big model is in the hands of a collector but I don't know if he has tried to restore it (it was in pretty bad shape).

I always laugh when people propose the theory that the big model was "too heavy to use". They seem to forget that the full scale pod was "flown" on wires many times, sometimes with an actor on board! It was far heavier than the 10' J2.


----------



## StarshipClass

X15-A2 said:


> They seem to forget that the full scale pod was "flown" on wires many times, sometimes with an actor on board! It was far heavier than the 10' J2.


Forget??? I never even KNEW they did that! That's very cool info! I'll look out for that in the episodes. Thanks!:thumbsup:


----------



## Y3a

I've seen the 1/3 scale model flown on the wires, but then the next clip would be the full size Pod and actor getting in/out.


----------



## Ron Gross

X15-A2 said:


> I always laugh when people propose the theory that the big model was "too heavy to use". They seem to forget that the full scale pod was "flown" on wires many times, sometimes with an actor on board! It was far heavier than the 10' J2.


I seem to recall from an article/interview that a crane was actually used for the Pod, which was carefully cropped out during filming.


----------



## toyroy

Ron Gross said:


> I seem to recall from an article/interview that a crane was actually used for the Pod, which was carefully cropped out during filming.


Seems like a lot of work, for a show where alien ships simply "blinked-off" at the end of the episode.


----------



## RSN

"Space Primevals" shows the full size pod land outdoors. In one continuous shot it lands, you see Guy Williams, through the window, turn and exit out the back then come around the front. It is a great shot!


----------



## Richard Baker

I could see how it would be easier to do some things in camera that SFX considering the technology back then. The Aliens 'blinking' out (sometimes with an explosion) was another work around but with 'Aliens' anything was possible. I think the only time the Robinsons or their tech was blinked it was an outside force doing it.


----------



## toyroy

X15-A2 said:


> ...the gear legs of the 10' model closed flush...


Thank you. That's important to me, if not many others. As a kid, I figured the gear closed flush, since in-flight shots showed a smooth lower hull. I very much _prefer_ a smooth lower hull, and that's the way I build my models- regardless of my knowledge of the hero gear. 



X15-A2 said:


> ...I always laugh when people propose the theory that the big model was "too heavy to use". They seem to forget that the full scale pod was "flown" on wires many times, sometimes with an actor on board! It was far heavier than the 10' J2.


I don't know the nomenclature, but I think there's some difference between using a crane, and flying on wires.


----------



## starseeker

L B Abbot in an interview in LISFan 1 which I happened to be looking at yesterday said it was a crane.
Looking at the FX shots in LIS Forever and noticed that the 4' pod dropper doesn't seem to have landing gear at all, just a perfectly smooth bottom hull. The little 12" in those FX is definitely not the miniature that Will picks up in Wish. The 12" is the miniature with the giant seam running all around. The mini in Wish was supposed to be a 15", according to LISFan interviews. And the 15" (if it is 15") in Wish is also the J2, not the G12. The lower deck has viewports.
Also noticed that both the 4' pod dropper and its pod both have chaser light patterns that look like one continuous on/off/on run, not the pattern of 1 on/7 off. 
The site run by the owner of the 10' has vanished. Rats.


----------



## Ron Gross

toyroy said:


> Thank you. That's important to me, if not many others. As a kid, I figured the gear closed flush, since in-flight shots showed a smooth lower hull.


This is because most of the in-flight scenes were shot with miniatures that didn't have any gear at all. That also goes for the model that dropped the pod from its underside...


----------



## Ron Gross

starseeker said:


> The mini in Wish was supposed to be a 15", according to LISFan interviews. And the 15" (if it is 15") in Wish is also the J2, not the G12. The lower deck has viewports.


In Mike Clark's excellent 20th anniversary video retrospective, he actually referred to this model as a 13".


----------



## toyroy

Ron Gross said:


> This is because most of the in-flight scenes were shot with miniatures that didn't have any gear at all. That also goes for the model that dropped the pod from its underside...


True, but even landing and lift-off shots of the hero, when the gear is up, make the underside look smooth. All of the above points indicate, to me, that the gear was intended to be consistent with a smooth hull, i.e., flush fitting.


----------



## Ron Gross

I think that the underside appears smooth in the shots you mention simply because the camera wasn't that capable of picking up the detail. I rather like the idea of the protruding landing gear backing plates, because there is a logical suggestion of a seal created. But it is of little consequence if one builds the ship with the gear extended anyway (as I did with my 1997 prototype). I, for one, am not a big advocate of retractable gear, or moving parts in general, for that matter. I guess I personally subscribe to the Merriman philosophy that "a model is meant to be displayed, not played with."


----------



## m jamieson

*10 foot Jupiter 2 prop*

Hi all, 
Here is an image of the 10 footer that was put online a few years ago.
There was very little info with the photo or as to who was then the current owner. Looks like someone really did take this for a crash landing into a canyon!


----------



## Ron Gross

I actually have a bigger image that I'll share. Notice the shadow at right which seems to verify scale...


----------



## m jamieson

Well at least the top dome addition was a nice touch...only needs a little trimming and one would never know it wasn't the original! lol
I truly hope it isn't still in this condition.


----------



## m jamieson

Its interesting that I just noticed in your larger file image Ron, that there are two pairs of two smaller holes above the line where the scanner openings are that looks like they may have been for the attachment of some lifting wires. It's just too bad a flash wasn't used for fill light as it would have revealed some interior detail beyond the consoles in the main view-port! Still I can't imagine a fan taking this one shot and then saying "thanks for the look..got my photo so I'm outta here!" There must be quite a few other photos of the ten footer that haven't shown up on line yet.


----------



## Richard Baker

> The site run by the owner of the 10' has vanished. Rats.


http://www.trelease-on-reading.com/link-rot-waybackmachine.html


----------



## toyroy

Ron Gross said:


> I think that the underside appears smooth in the shots you mention simply because the camera wasn't that capable of picking up the detail...


I think that was intentional. If they had intended for the gear to stand out, would not _all_ the miniatures feature such detail, even if not functional? 




Ron Gross said:


> ...I, for one, am not a big advocate of retractable gear, or moving parts in general, for that matter. I guess I personally subscribe to the Merriman philosophy that "a model is meant to be displayed, not played with."


No agreement, there. I _play_ with my trains, and other models!


----------



## toyroy

Richard Baker said:


> http://www.trelease-on-reading.com/link-rot-waybackmachine.html


I'm afraid that Wayback Machine link is dead. Try this:

http://www.archive.org/web/web.php


----------



## Ron Gross

toyroy said:


> I think that was intentional. If they had intended for the gear to stand out, would not _all_ the miniatures feature such detail, even if not functional?


Under normal conditions, yes. But we're dealing with IA, and his usual flair for continuity, so all bets are off.


----------



## starseeker

Ron Gross said:


> I guess I personally subscribe to the Merriman philosophy that "a model is meant to be displayed, not played with."


Do you mean that David Merriman was Working when he made that video of his Seaview circling around in that swimming pool and diving and surfacing and maneuvering and all that. Man, he has more fun at not playing than most of do when we do play. 

I like the idea of lots of working parts, if you can pull them off reasonably in scale. Even if you're just displaying, after a while the same old, same old gets boring. Nice to be able to change the look of your model. Removable bits are one option but I always lose them over time. If they're built into the model, at least you know where they are. Also, it makes building more complex and that's always fun for some of us.


----------



## Richard Baker

I like the swappable options or positional parts like they used with the FineMolds X-Wing. I always have trouble deciding about which way to build it -gear up/down, flaps deployed- I really appreciate a kit which allows you to alter it after building so you can display it differently later...


----------



## starseeker

The 10' J2 site was here:
http://jupiter2.freeyellow.com/root/j2filesi.htm
Use the search engine Toyroy (Thanks!!!) posted just above. Paste the J2 link into the very top search blank, click Go, and then check out the 2006 pages. They're there, at least in part. Wish they were complete, tho. Rats.


----------



## Ron Gross

starseeker said:


> Do you mean that David Merriman was Working when he made that video of his Seaview circling around in that swimming pool and diving and surfacing and maneuvering and all that. Man, he has more fun at not playing than most of do when we do play.


Now I just knew that somebody would bring that up! But surely you agree that there is a difference between an RC model and one that is intended for display only. I was referring to the latter, but that also doesn't mean I don't respect the opinion of others who like the idea of movable parts. It's just not for me, because I feel that it invites accidents.


----------



## starseeker

Ron Gross said:


> Now I just knew that somebody would bring that up! But surely you agree that there is a difference between an RC model and one that is intended for display only.


This is true. And I guess he really is working, not playing, as he designs and sells the bits that make those sub models do those things. I'm just jealous.


----------



## toyroy

Richard Baker said:


> ...I really appreciate a kit which allows you to alter it after building so you can display it differently later...


Me too. And in the case of the Jupiter 2, if the gear legs are hinged, no alternate parts would be required.


----------



## Seaview

There are some interesting possibilities with the landing gear. I'm picturing in my minds' eye hinged legs, hinged pads, and a rail (fashioned like a miniature curtain rod) along the middle of the landing leg wells.
Have any of you experimented with making functional landing gear with the PL version?


----------



## Captain Han Solo

Working landing gear is INDEED possible..

Having said that, however, Waiting for the release of the actual kit is the first step.

Although I am sure Moebius is pleased with the excitement the Announcement has caused..this constant, "I hope they did this", or "do that" is becoming increasingly pointless....And tiresome:freak:..

Gentlemen, we need to WAIT for the release of the New J2:thumbsup:

May I suggest actually "BUILDING" something else in the meantime to hold you over??Perhaps a Chariot..Or Space Pod..Or Flying Sub..Or Seaview ..Etc..

High Regards,
BP


----------



## starseeker

I'm sure we're all as busy as bees on our Moebii. I'm just about to prime all the little tiny bits that go inside the bridge of the Seaview. This thread makes a nice and interesting break from all the toil and give my eyes a chance to recover. Damn Moebius anyway, those kits are just so huge they soak up all the detail you can throw at them. What fun.


----------



## toyroy

Seaview said:


> There are some interesting possibilities with the landing gear. I'm picturing in my minds' eye hinged legs, hinged pads, and a rail (fashioned like a miniature curtain rod) along the middle of the landing leg wells.
> Have any of you experimented with making functional landing gear with the PL version?


Some time ago, I viewed my LiS videotapes to study how the gear struts moved, and how their upper ends were likely connected. I've seen some drawings lately which suggest the upper end slides along a track parallel to the closed gear leg, but that is *not* consistent with the motion seen in the show. I think the upper end may be held through a fixed pivot point. Perhaps someone with the autopsy video can speak to the actual connection.

I did just a tiny bit of experimental work my PL gear: I hinged one of the landing pads, and also installed the strut hinge outboard of the bottom step. With just a simple hinge on the pad, it's easy to see how the pad can automatically move out of the way of the pad door. I don't know if the hero used a ball joint on the pad but, as Y3a has pointed out, if so, something must be used to prevent the pad rotating.


----------



## Ron Gross

For those of you who are interested in the possibility of retractable gear, you might want to take a look at the old TrendMasters J2 toy. It seems to have a very simple, yet effective mechanism that may provide a few ideas.


----------



## woof359

so the new kit well have no lower interior at all? i was wondering if it well be the same PL kit just bigger?


----------



## Capt. Krik

woof359 said:


> so the new kit well have no lower interior at all? i was wondering if it well be the same PL kit just bigger?


I am in no way associated with Moebius Models but I think I can safely say that this will NOT be an enlarged version of the Polar Lights Jupiter 2. 

This is not a shot at the Polar Lights kit. I am a big fan of that model. However the shape of the outer hull on that kit always bugged me. It's close to the studio model but not quite there. It just didn't have the graceful flow of the studio model. Good kit but just off in certain areas.

Judging by their previous releases I'm guessing that Frank and Dave will make sure that this Jupiter kit will be as close to the studio model as possible.

The decision to omit the lower deck is a sound one in my opinion. I've built two PL J2's and did not install the lower decks in either model. I know there will be those that are disappointed but I think that decision makes sense.


----------



## Richard Baker

IIRC the PL-J2 was designed using a shot of the studio model as a hull reference- a head on landing scene I think.
The question goes to-_which_ studio model - there were several and none matched each other exactly.


----------



## Ron Gross

Richard Baker said:


> IIRC the PL-J2 was designed using a shot of the studio model as a hull reference- a head on landing scene I think.
> The question goes to-_which_ studio model - there were several and none matched each other exactly.


The PL J2 was based on my scratch built prototype, for which I had one goal in mind: duplicate the general external look of "hero" miniature as closely as possible. The translation to production model was not 100% for various reasons, although still far better than anything Aurora would have done, in my opinion. I am attaching an image that I don't believe can be found anywhere on the net. I calculated the dimensions to be in scale with my earlier Chariot scratch build, to the left. The Pod on the right is the Johnny Lightning die-cast, which, coincidentally, is also in scale. That is, if you use a human figure as a reference point. Obviously it would be too large to match the FX shots on the show.


----------



## xsavoie

Does Moebius have a an estimate on the price tag of their JUPITER 2 when it will be sold in the U.S.A.


----------



## RB

Capt. Krik said:


> The decision to omit the lower deck is a sound one in my opinion. I've built two PL J2's and did not install the lower decks in either model. I know there will be those that are disappointed but I think that decision makes sense.


I had been hoping that Moebius would omit the lower deck to allow for a more accurate and better scaled top deck. The two-deck/lift-off upper hull section Jupiter 2 has already been a popular model from Polar Lights, there's no need to duplicate it. 

Perhaps, if the Moebius J2 is successful (a pretty good bet I imagine), they might consider producing the lower deck as a separate companion display piece kit. Just the lower deck, no upper deck or upper hull. Not trying to turn this into a "Wishin' and Hopin"" thread, I'm as tired of those as everyone else. But I find the lower deck to be as nicely designed as the upper, and I'm sure many would love to see an accurate version kitted.


----------



## bert model maker

I know Moebius will bring us an OUTSTANDING jupiter 2. Ron, Your Jupiter 2 is great and the profile looks perfect. here is my PL Jupiter 2 also with JL space Pod & Chariot for profile comparison.


----------



## bert model maker

forgot the pictures


----------



## Ron Gross

They do look good together, don't they? I especially like your third pic. Fantastic job.


----------



## Ron Gross

Hey Bert, I have a shot of mine that closely approximates the orientation of that third pic of yours I like so much. As I recall, I had my photographer try to duplicate all of the principal scenes from the show. This orientation is close to the lift off scene in "Blast off into Space." I had him do "The Derelict" also.


----------



## JeffG

I never met an Irwin Allen ship I didn't like, but my God-the guy was completely clueless when it came to scale and dimensions. Would have loved to see how he would have packed a grocery bag (lol)!. Anyway, I'm very much looking forward to this kit as I know Moebius will knock it out of the park, but if I hear one more comment about a lower deck...! What lower deck? Ya think this is the Tardis? I'd just be happy with a really nice upper level. Can't wait!


----------



## Richard Baker

Not a single show in Sixties paid attention to internal/external geometry (well perhaps Star Trek just because the ship was so big you could put anything anywhere in it).
There was a book I saw once (wish I had bought it) which took a bunch of shows and tried to work out the floor plans to fit the exteriors shown. Bredy Bunch, Green Acres, Lost in Space, VttBotS...
None of them worked just right- they had to fold space or rescale to make things fit.

In the Sixties these deatials were simply not important. Things were done to make the story work and people just accepted it. It wasn't that IA was "completely clueless when it came to scale and dimensions"- nobody cared about it- it was a differnet worlf.
They sure did not expect people to even remember these shows almost fifty years later...


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## JeffG

As far as I can remember, I think the original Enterprise was the first ship in a sci-fi show that dimensionally made some sense as you could clearly point to the bridge and say 'Oh, they're in there'. Even as a kid though, I always loved the J2, but knew there was no way they could cramm all that stuff in there...and don't even get me started about the episode where they were in the power core (lol)!

But you are correct in that size was of no concern as I'm sure the external set of the Millennium Falcon would be quite a bit bigger than the Jupiter 2 and doesn't have nearly as much stuff inside. Still, the J2 remains among my top favorite sci-fi ships!


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## Ron Gross

In the "Invaders" LIS first season episode, we heard the line "we are in a field of 5th dimension, where size has no meaning and is beyond your present capacity to comprehend." Maybe that principle applied throughout.


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## Gemini1999

Richard Baker said:


> Not a single show in Sixties paid attention to internal/external geometry (well perhaps Star Trek just because the ship was so big you could put anything anywhere in it).
> There was a book I saw once (wish I had bought it) which took a bunch of shows and tried to work out the floor plans to fit the exteriors shown. Bredy Bunch, Green Acres, Lost in Space, VttBotS...
> None of them worked just right- they had to fold space or rescale to make things fit.
> 
> In the Sixties these deatials were simply not important. Things were done to make the story work and people just accepted it. It wasn't that IA was "completely clueless when it came to scale and dimensions"- nobody cared about it- it was a differnet worlf.
> They sure did not expect people to even remember these shows almost fifty years later...


Rich -

I remember seeing that book in a bookstore about 15 years ago. I remember flipping through it and thought that the idea was indeed fascinating. It is true though - the audiences of the 60's just didn't focus on the minutae and background details. The sets were what they were and were just there to provide part of the setting for the story, not to represent real world circumstances. Back then, if you caught things like this, you just had to suspend your disbelief and enjoy the story for what it was.

I wish that I'd bought that book too....

Bryan


----------



## oshkosh619

Quite frankly, if you follow the *Irwin Allen Theory of Size and Relativity* you could fit the Douglas' farmhouse AND the Brady Bunch house inside the J2 along with the Pod, Chariot, Power Core, Spindrift, Diving Bell, FS1.............


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## JeffG

Gemini1999 said:


> The sets were what they were and were just there to provide part of the setting for the story, not to represent real world circumstances. Back then, if you caught things like this, you just had to suspend your disbelief and enjoy the story for what it was.


You're absolutely right. It's funny how audiences have changed. Nowadays, folks are a little more savvy (to some extent) and to have such blatantly obvious discrepancies with interior and exterior sizes would seriously detract from the believability and credibility of the story thus pulling you out of the world they want to pull you in to. People are willing to suspend their disbelief...but there are limits these days as we've become increasingly critical and if the filmmakers skip certain details, the audience will call them out on it.


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## Richard Baker

oshkosh619 said:


> Quite frankly, if you follow the *Irwin Allen Theory of Size and Relativity* you could fit the Douglas' farmhouse AND the Brady Bunch house inside the J2 along with the Pod, Chariot, Power Core, Spindrift, Diving Bell, FS1.............


...and park it next to the Enterprise D in the TARDIS


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## m jamieson

I always wondered that with only 3 cabins on the lower deck for 7 people what kind of interesting sleeping arrangements were worked out that the CBS censors didn't want to touch! lol


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## m jamieson

"Dr.Smith...it's your turn to share the Bloops quarters tonight!"


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## JeffG

I've seen how Smith looks at Will in the galley...but it's not like I'm implying anything (lol)!


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## m jamieson

I'm sure Don and Judy shared a freezing tube occasionally..which is another reason that I'm glad there is no lower deck on Moebius's upcoming J-2..we can avoid all those 1960's moral dilemmas and arguments over whose cabin had bunk beds. But then again, think of all of Drew's new figure design and placement possibilities!


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## bert model maker

Thanks Ron !
Bert


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## Dar

I still think the two levels worked on the J2 in the show, it was just that they screwed the dimensions and scales between the models and sets. Of course they also added stuff or took it away.(Power core, Space pod) As for the 
"3rd level" engine room. Yeah it didnt work but it was only one episode and was never seen again. The producers probably thought they could get away with depicting the J2 as a larger ship in that episode. The camera zoomed in on the power core light when they showed a scene in that level. As if to suggest that it was part of a level unto itself.:lol:


I think there was another episode in the third season that showed John in another engine room. It was a small room and was more believable in terms of size than the "3rd level" and looked like it could fit behind the staterooms.


I would love to see a J2 model one day that rescales the entire interior in one scale, (no 3rd level) and we can get a more accurate representation of a complete J2.
:thumbsup:


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## Richard Baker

Dar said:


> I would love to see a J2 model one day that rescales the entire interior in one scale, (no 3rd level) and we can get a more accurate representation of a complete J2.
> :thumbsup:


You can do it if you do not have an exterior. I have an old set of floor plans and they show all the interior pspaces matching th efilming sets but ignore the outer hull entirely. The blueprints for the hull portions ignore the interor as well.
I don't mind loosing the lower deck but I think I might arrange something to be seen through the lower viewports just to make the front interesting.


----------



## Dar

Richard Baker said:


> You can do it if you do not have an exterior. I have an old set of floor plans and they show all the interior pspaces matching th efilming sets but ignore the outer hull entirely. The blueprints for the hull portions ignore the interor as well.
> I don't mind loosing the lower deck but I think I might arrange something to be seen through the lower viewports just to make the front interesting.


I was thinking the same. Maybe a photo showing thru the lower level window?


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## JeffG

Unless I'm mistaken, I seem to recall a continuous shot where Mrs. Robinson went from the upper level to the elevator and down to the second level as the camera followed, so were the sets actually atop each other? Obviously you could get it to work as a set, just not within the confines of that hull.


----------



## Captain Han Solo

JeffG said:


> Unless I'm mistaken, I seem to recall a continuous shot where Mrs. Robinson went from the upper level to the elevator and down to the second level as the camera followed, so were the sets actually atop each other? Obviously you could get it to work as a set, just not within the confines of that hull.


 
The sets were actually on two different sound stages..That is a great shot from the "Oasis" episode. Year One.Typical of the first season's High production values.

A very smooth editing process:thumbsup:


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## toyroy

Dar said:


> ...I would love to see a J2 model one day that rescales the entire interior in one scale, (no 3rd level) and we can get a more accurate representation of a complete J2.
> :thumbsup:


I also think the two levels can fit, using a uniform scale. I wholeheartedly agree with Moebius' main deck-only decision, and I wouldn't lay odds that we'll see another injection-molded Jupiter 2 kit. But at least, you'll now have two hull sizes to chose from, to kitbash or scratchbuild such a model. Frankly, I'm surprised I haven't seen more cardstock architectural style interiors made for the PL hull, given it's popularity.


----------



## Dar

toyroy said:


> I also think the two levels can fit, using a uniform scale. I wholeheartedly agree with Moebius' main deck-only decision, and I wouldn't lay odds that we'll see another injection-molded Jupiter 2 kit. But at least, you'll now have two hull sizes to chose from, to kitbash or scratchbuild such a model. Frankly, I'm surprised I haven't seen more cardstock architectural style interiors made for the PL hull, given it's popularity.


Agreed. Yeah if someone made a nice rescaled interior for the PL J2 or even the moebius, I would buy it in a heartbeat and my dream of a nice scaled complete interior for the J2 would be realized. The cool thing about the moebius one deck is that it will give us a uber detailed upper deck beyond what we had with the PL.


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## Richard Baker

I don't think that could have been filmed that way in a continous take, even with stacked sets. The cameras of that day were frak'n huge and would not fit into the elevator even if she wasn't in it. They must have used some creative magic to bring the two shots together.

One triva- the huge corridors of the TOS Enterprise were that width because that was the space it took for a film crew to follow an actor walking down them.


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## RSN

toyroy said:


> I also think the two levels can fit, using a uniform scale. I wholeheartedly agree with Moebius' main deck-only decision, and I wouldn't lay odds that we'll see another injection-molded Jupiter 2 kit. But at least, you'll now have two hull sizes to chose from, to kitbash or scratchbuild such a model. Frankly, I'm surprised I haven't seen more cardstock architectural style interiors made for the PL hull, given it's popularity.


It's not two levels, but it is from scratch, (except for the astrogator) of a rescaled Gemini XII conversion of PL J2.


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## RSN

Richard Baker said:


> I don't think that could have been filmed that way in a continous take, even with stacked sets. The cameras of that day were frak'n huge and would not fit into the elevator even if she wasn't in it. They must have used some creative magic to bring the two shots together.
> 
> One triva- the huge corridors of the TOS Enterprise were that width because that was the space it took for a film crew to follow an actor walking down them.


It was done with a hand held camera. A little bit easier to fit in the cage with June Lockhart.


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## m jamieson

There are a few frames where the frame is black as the elevator descends into the studio floor pit and then re-emerges into the lower deck..that is where the edit was made to create the illusion of one continuous set.


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## toyroy

RSN said:


> It's not two levels, but it is from scratch...


I like those support walls! :thumbsup:


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## RSN

toyroy said:


> I like those support walls! :thumbsup:


Thanks toyroy. FYI, the plastic center of a Scotch tape dispenser (the narrow size) is the exact diameter of the opening of the roof. Sometimes it is that easy!


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## NTRPRZ

Actually, isn't June going UP?
As I recall, she enters the elevator on the lower deck, goes to the upper deck, where she sees Smith eating some dangerous fruit outside the ship. She runs over and slaps it out of his hands.
Probably one of the most violent things Mrs. Robinson ever did on the show!
Anyhow, IIRC, there are a few black frames where the editors spliced the film together and again, IIRC, the shots don't quite line up.
There's a very similar scene, though going from the upper deck to the lower, in "Reluctant Stowaway." Also practically seamless.


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## xsavoie

If MOEBIUS is to release even only one more Irwin Allen kit because they still have the licence to do so,in my opinion,this kit should be a super detailed LOST IN SPACE B 9 ROBOT in a big scale.Either in 1/6th or even 1/4 scale if possible.This robot should include a pair of retracted arms and a pair of deployed arms in action pose,easily interchangeable,for optional display.These arms would be in styrene plastic.Plus,if possible,a pair of arms in flexible rubber like material for those who would prefer these for various reasons.Of course,the Robot should include all the necessary transparent parts for lighting the B 9,if desired.Could as well include an audio CD in the box with the Robot's original lines from the show.Should it also include optional rubber tracks and be made motor ready for those who want to make it a moving Robot.One thing for sure,a lot of L.I.S. fans would jump on this one,as well as other robots loving collectors.


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## Y3a

How about a 10" diameter set of Saucers? Hero version, Full scale Mock-up, Gemini 12, and the crash site? (Sounds really Lunar Models, I know but......)


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## woof359

I still like the Jupiter 1 from the movie and I though with some work it wood have worked better than the egg. the lift off in the movie was great.


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## Richard Baker

woof359 said:


> I still like the Jupiter 1 from the movie and I though with some work it wood have worked better than the egg. the lift off in the movie was great.


If you are refering to the J-1 shell which lifts off and releases the J-2 oval thing I agreee. I had hopes they had kept the overall shape and made it a five deck ship with state-of-the-art detailing but alas it was just a throw away for the TOS fans. I know the styrene Robot and J-2 from the movie, but did anybody make a kit of the J-1? (besides MMM)


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## toyroy

RSN said:


> ...FYI, the plastic center of a Scotch tape dispenser (the narrow size) is the exact diameter of the opening of the roof...


Thanks, for the found object tip. How did you do the figures in the freezing tubes?


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## jbond

I loved the J1 liftoff stuff but even I would have got tired of that shape over the course of a 2 hour movie--I know, heresy! I actually like the J2 from the movie. The original was a TV design made on a TV budget and the technical limitations of the time. Even if you hate the movie design I don't think you can argue that they should have kept the TV show design for the movie. Well, actually I guess you can or you wouldn't be here...


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## Paulbo

Perhaps something along the same lines as the refit Enterprise - similar overall shape/flavor, but updated for the big screen.


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## DLHamblin

PM Moderator said:


> You can't have everything - because it simply doesn't fit inside the hull.
> There is no room for one upper and TWO lower decks WITH landing gear wells and the Pod Bay and the chariot bay ...
> Once you fit the main deck AS SEEN IN THE TV SHOW into the ship the rest of the stuff doesn't fit.
> 
> I hate to tell you guys this, but the design is DONE the mock-up and the tooling plan have been approved, and we're ready to start cutting tooling.
> 
> There is no way that the kit will be 28-36 inches -the cost to produce something like that is prohibitive. More like 18 inches as I hinted when we had the Jupiter 2 discussion here before...
> 
> No retractable landing gear - Making something like that actually work is also prohibitively expensive and would result in landing gear that is too fragile to support the model.
> 
> Due to cost constraints there are no figures included in the kit - I'm sure that the aftermarket will take care of that for you.
> 
> Yes it has a two piece hull. And yes the two pieces will fit together properly
> 
> Yes the kit is designed so that adding some lighting will be fairly simple and straightforward
> 
> I believe that the kit that will result will be an accurate representation of the Jupiter 2 that was seen every week on TV.. I'm sure we'll be able to show and tell more before too long..
> 
> I think That I've told you everything that I can.
> I won't be answering every question posed - You're going to have to be patient and wait for an official announcement if you think you need more details..
> 
> 
> Dave



Wow, I don't log in for a week or two and what do I miss! A new J2 !!! Super! I have a 16" Polar Lights (full upper interior) I built in 1996. Can't wait for the Moebius version!

I also have the Polar Lights which was good, but I liked the detail on the Polar Lights interior.

Can't wait to see some pictures!


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## RSN

toyroy said:


> Thanks, for the found object tip. How did you do the figures in the freezing tubes?


The figures in the tubes are actually wardrobe test shots of the cast. I reduced them and repositioned a few arms and put them in the tubes. The tubes temselves are more found objects, medicine tubes for treating sinus infections! I kept the color scheme B/W so I didn't have to guess at colors from the B/W pilot. Another found object, the "food" containers are Sudafed pill holders cut from the backing and filled with scale railroad gravel.


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## toyroy

RSN said:


> ...The (freezing) tubes temselves are...medicine tubes for treating sinus infections...the "food" containers are Sudafed pill holders cut from the backing and filled with scale railroad gravel.


Now that's resourceful! I wonder if today's kids would respond to this sort of modelling challenge?


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## Richard Baker

toyroy said:


> Now that's resourceful! I wonder if today's kids would respond to this sort of modelling challenge?


I hate to say it but a lot of builders seem to want to wait for Conversion kits or detail/lighting sets rather than improvise with what is on hand.


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## Rl3058

Antimatter said:


> I'd pass on the lower deck. Really would like a great upper deck though.


I second that


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## robiwon

DLHamblin said:


> Wow, I don't log in for a week or two and what do I miss! A new J2 !!! Super! I have a 16" Polar Lights (full upper interior) I built in 1996. Can't wait for the Moebius version!
> 
> I also have the Polar Lights which was good, but I liked the detail on the Polar Lights interior.
> 
> Can't wait to see some pictures!



Do you mean Polar lights and Lunar Models?

Rick, I feel the same way, sort of. Sometimes I think we are making models to easy to build. However, there are modelers out there who have a great passion for the hobby who for one reason or another don't build much, can't spend the time on a project, the skills, etc. These detail kits, PE kits. decal sets, resin bits, etc. are for those who want a great looking kit with little time/effort/exp. etc. The rest of us still have the option of doing it ourselves. I have been tempted many times and have given in once or twice. Something for everyone. It's a great time to be a modeler.


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## DLHamblin

robiwon said:


> Do you mean Polar lights and Lunar Models?
> 
> Rick, I feel the same way, sort of. Sometimes I think we are making models to easy to build. However, there are modelers out there who have a great passion for the hobby who for one reason or another don't build much, can't spend the time on a project, the skills, etc. These detail kits, PE kits. decal sets, resin bits, etc. are for those who want a great looking kit with little time/effort/exp. etc. The rest of us still have the option of doing it ourselves. I have been tempted many times and have given in once or twice. Something for everyone. It's a great time to be a modeler.


Ooops, yes, Lunar Models 16" (Also have the LIS Robot I built at same time).

I used to be in RC airplanes, most people built kits or scratch built. Now, everything is ARF (almost ready to fly). It does take less skills, but I guess it gets more people in the hobby.

Same with plastic models. Easier kits will (hopefulley) bring more people in.


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## Dar

Rl3058 said:


> I second that


Thats what we are getting.


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## RSN

Well here was a small project that got out of hand, all from scratch. An almost 4 foot wide diorama for the wind up Robot from Japan. I started it about 15 years ago and stopped half way around the upper deck (yes, I blueprinted the lower deck to go with it!). It now sits, unfinished, on a shelf in my garage. I don't make molds, everything is made in duplicates at the same time. I hope the Moebius (staying on topic) interior is more like this than the PL was. (Found items, the Jupiter II in the astrogator are two buttons and the red ball on the gyroscope is a superball.)


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## StarshipClass

Richard Baker said:


> I hate to say it but a lot of builders seem to want to wait for Conversion kits or detail/lighting sets rather than improvise with what is on hand.


I prefer improvising and sculpting stuff, myself. Much more rewarding in the long run and not really too time consuming.


----------



## StarshipClass

RSN said:


> Well here was a small project that got out of hand, all from scratch. An almost 4 foot wide diorama for the wind up Robot from Japan. I started it about 15 years ago and stopped half way around the upper deck (yes, I blueprinted the lower deck to go with it!). It now sits, unfinished, on a shelf in my garage. I don't make molds, everything is made in duplicates at the same time. I hope the Moebius (staying on topic) interior is more like this than the PL was. (Found items, the Jupiter II in the astrogator are two buttons and the red ball on the gyroscope is a superball.)


Fantastic work!

Just say it's a partial set piece/diorama and call it finished!:thumbsup:


----------



## gojira61

RSN said:


> Well here was a small project that got out of hand, all from scratch. An almost 4 foot wide diorama for the wind up Robot from Japan. I started it about 15 years ago and stopped half way around the upper deck (yes, I blueprinted the lower deck to go with it!). It now sits, unfinished, on a shelf in my garage. I don't make molds, everything is made in duplicates at the same time. I hope the Moebius (staying on topic) interior is more like this than the PL was. (Found items, the Jupiter II in the astrogator are two buttons and the red ball on the gyroscope is a superball.)


 *WOW!*


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## bert model maker

OUTSTANDING, That looks perfect, great work. that could easily be made into a full size replica.


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## robiwon

Y3a said:


> How about a 10" diameter set of Saucers? Hero version, Full scale Mock-up, Gemini 12, and the crash site? (Sounds really Lunar Models, I know but......)


I love that idea. To expand on it a step further, how about a whole line of mini ships? All the different J2's, a mini C-57D, mini Seaview, mini Spindrift, mini CE3K, mini EvsFS, etc. But in a much smaller size of 4-6 inches, like the mini Flying Sub from the big Seaview. That I think would be awesome!


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## Y3a

But Looner Moddles did the Lil Jupiter 2's back last century. 

I guess all I would really like is a Derelict Ship and a 1" diameter Jupiter 2 (No lower deck needed on that model either)


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## toyroy

RSN said:


> Well here was a small project that got out of hand, all from scratch. An almost 4 foot wide diorama for the wind up Robot from Japan...


That's so cool! How did you make the astrogator dome? Vacuform?


----------



## toyroy

Y3a said:


> ...all I would really like is a Derelict Ship and a 1" diameter Jupiter 2


Would you make the Derelict so that the "doors" open?


----------



## toyroy

robiwon said:


> ...how about a whole line of mini ships?...


I was thinking about a kit of mini-ships from The Saucer Fleet, but there's probably too many licensing problems. Assuming the mini-FS and Robot sell well, how about a three-pack of Irwin Allen mini's(Jupiter 2, Seaview, and Spindrift?)


----------



## JPhil123

robiwon said:


> I love that idea. To expand on it a step further, how about a whole line of mini ships? All the different J2's, a mini C-57D, mini Seaview, mini Spindrift, mini CE3K, mini EvsFS, etc. But in a much smaller size of 4-6 inches, like the mini Flying Sub from the big Seaview. That I think would be awesome!


Hello,

A series of mini-ships is terrific idea. If they cannot be done, however, maybe a "Lost In Space" Alpha Control launch site diorama containing an accurate mini-Gemini XII (maybe 10 -12 inches in diameter) along with the launch crade and tractor/towers could be considered.

Jim


----------



## toyroy

JPhil123 said:


> ...maybe a "Lost In Space" Alpha Control launch site diorama containing an accurate mini-Gemini XII (maybe 10 -12 inches in diameter) along with the launch crade and tractor/towers could be considered.


Your request has already been granted! The Polar Lights Jupiter 2 is 12" in diameter, and Henry already makes a launch pad kit for it. Check it out.


----------



## RSN

toyroy said:


> That's so cool! How did you make the astrogator dome? Vacuform?


No vacuform, I found a clear plastic ball, at a crafts store, that split down the middle so you could put things in it.(And boy did I!) It was jus the right size!


----------



## oshkosh619

toyroy said:


> Your request has already been granted! The Polar Lights Jupiter 2 is 12" in diameter, and Henry already makes a launch pad kit for it. Check it out.


Not so fast there, son !! He said _*an accurate mini-Gemini XII*_ :thumbsup:!! 

While a nice version of the *series* J2, the PL kit is * no* Gemini XII! PL's J2 requires *ALOT* of modification (including fabricating an entirely new lower hull and fusion core and significantly enlarging the front viewports, eliminating the portholes, NGS scanner ports, etc. to accurately fit the bill, and the tractor towers would have to be scratchbuilt as no one currently makes them, only the cradle). I'd also like to see an accurate injection-molded kit requiring no modification to replicate the launch scene. IIRC, Lunar made a kit of the launch scene, towers and all, for their little Gemini-XII. I almost bought it many moons ago. 

The talented modeler who did the build-up (I can handle injection molded kits, but realized I was in *WAY* over my head w/vacuform and rough resin castings) and modified my Lunar 16" J2 into a psuedo-Gemini XII also scratchbuilt the complete launch scene and cradle in 1/35th. It was incredibly done, right down to 1/35th scale Alpha Control guards and guard shack. I wish I had been able to afford a copy of it, but I had busted my hobby budget (for a *LONG* time)on the Gemini XII build-up. The launch scene was featured in one of the modeling magazines (can't recall if it was Fine Scale Modeler or Scale Modeler) back in '90, and shown at a Sci-Fi show in Atlanta with my Gemini XII on the cradle. I've still got her, but haven't unpacked it since I moved into my new house in '04. Someday I'll break her out again. In the meantime, I'd love to do an injection molded kit of the G-XII and launch scene.


----------



## j2man

The only thing I would like to see is the sliding main hatch in the event I want to crash-site the kit.


----------



## Mark Dorais

oshkosh619 said:


> Not so fast there, son !! He said _*an accurate mini-Gemini XII*_ :thumbsup:!!
> 
> While a nice version of the *series* J2, the PL kit is * no* Gemini XII! PL's J2 requires *ALOT* of modification (including fabricating an entirely new lower hull and fusion core and significantly enlarging the front viewports, eliminating the portholes, NGS scanner ports, etc. to accurately fit the bill, and the tractor towers would have to be scratchbuilt as no one currently makes them, only the cradle). I'd also like to see an accurate injection-molded kit requiring no modification to replicate the launch scene. IIRC, Lunar made a kit of the launch scene, towers and all, for their little Gemini-XII. I almost bought it many moons ago.
> 
> The talented modeler who did the build-up (I can handle injection molded kits, but realized I was in *WAY* over my head w/vacuform and rough resin castings) and modified my Lunar 16" J2 into a psuedo-Gemini XII also scratchbuilt the complete launch scene and cradle in 1/35th. It was incredibly done, right down to 1/35th scale Alpha Control guards and guard shack. I wish I had been able to afford a copy of it, but I had busted my hobby budget (for a *LONG* time)on the Gemini XII build-up. The launch scene was featured in one of the modeling magazines (can't recall if it was Fine Scale Modeler or Scale Modeler) back in '90, and shown at a Sci-Fi show in Atlanta with my Gemini XII on the cradle. I've still got her, but haven't unpacked it since I moved into my new house in '04. Someday I'll break her out again. In the meantime, I'd love to do an injection molded kit of the G-XII and launch scene.


 You're correct !!!most important.....the upper hull angles on the polar lights J-2 are several degrees too steep......The upcomming Moebius kit will correct this since they're scanning off a casting of the origional 4 ft filming miniature which will provide the elusive proper upper hull outward "flare" ie. angle. Of course, a new shallow lower hull would have to be fabricated along with viewport modifications etc.:tongue:


----------



## Ron Gross

Mark Dorais said:


> You're correct !!!most important.....the upper hull angles on the polar lights J-2 are several degrees too steep......The upcomming Moebius kit will correct this since they're scanning off a casting of the origional 4 ft filming miniature which will provide the elusive proper upper hull outward "flare" ie. angle. Of course, a new shallow lower hull would have to be fabricated along with viewport modifications etc.:tongue:


Hey Mark,
You and I go back a long way, and I always have tremendous respect for your opinion on all things Irwin Allen (as well as your incredible art talent, BTW). However, on this one issue, I'm not sure I can agree with you. Please take a look at the attached image, which is a composite of the hero J2, and Jim Piszar's award wining PL J2 build up from 1998. The angles look very close to me, however, there is an issue with the degree of rooftop curvature on the PL that may create an illusion such as you describe. What do you think?


----------



## Y3a

There is a flat-ish area around the Bubble. The Pod Dropper has a pronounced version of this feature.


----------



## Ron Gross

Yes, the roof area has always been elusive. As a matter of fact, it was Mark Dorais who told me to watch out for this many years ago when I was building my prototype. His concern dealt primarily with the roof top height, and he was correct. As for the flat area, yes I am aware of it (especially on the Pod dropper), but with respect to this issue, my opinion is that it was more a matter of sloppy or incomplete finishing on the part of the original prop makers. The question then becomes whether or not one wants to emulate their work to the extent of duplicating possible "errors," which is something I suspect we all have to answer individually.


----------



## starseeker

That flat top may actually be a warp in the fibreglass, as certain types of glass are apt to do after being pulled from the mold. If certain shape differences are apparent between the 4's (ie the pod dropper a lot and others not so much), which were probably all pulled from the same mold, then it most likely it did warp as/after it cured.


----------



## JPhil123

toyroy said:


> Your request has already been granted! The Polar Lights Jupiter 2 is 12" in diameter, and Henry already makes a launch pad kit for it. Check it out.


Hello Again...

Thanks much.

Henry's launch tower, terrific as it is, is for the Jupiter 2 by PL. I was thinking of an entirely new kit that already has the accurate hull details (or rather lack of details) and shape, and more a shallow lower hull, that would be a true Gemini XII. Who wouldn't love another kit, "Lost In Space: Pilot Jupiter 2 and launch pad." But seriously, even though I am a true fan of the Gemini XII it would probably never be an kit. I respond mostly in jest here. The real interest will be in the Moebius release of the Jupiter 2 naturally, and this is where my primary interest is as well...

Glad a few others like the Gemini though.

Regards,
Jim


----------



## toyroy

RSN said:


> ...I found a clear plastic ball, at a crafts store, that split down the middle so you could put things in it...It was jus the right size!


I gotta get to the crafts store more often.  Although, I'm most keen on recycled "trash" for modelmaking.


----------



## toyroy

oshkosh619 said:


> Not so fast there, son !! He said _*an accurate mini-Gemini XII*_ :thumbsup:!!
> 
> ...the PL kit is * no* Gemini XII! PL's J2 requires *ALOT* of modification...to accurately fit the bill...


There are differences between the J2, and GXII? Well, whadayaknow! 



JPhil123 said:


> ...Glad a few others like the Gemini though...


So am I.


----------



## toyroy

Ron Gross said:


> ...As for the flat area, yes I am aware of it (especially on the Pod dropper), but with respect to this issue, my opinion is that it was more a matter of sloppy or incomplete finishing on the part of the original prop makers...


So, this _wasn't_ the result of restoration work necessitated by the butchering done for "City Beneath the Sea"?


----------



## Ron Gross

toyroy said:


> So, this _wasn't_ the result of restoration work necessitated by the butchering done for "City Beneath the Sea"?


There is actually a scene in "Wild Adventure" where you can see the area of flat quite well. I think it's the overhead shot when the fuel cells are dumped. I don't believe, however, that this is the hero miniature, which was likely subjected to a little better finishing work. If so, the result would have been a more polished and slightly more rounded appearance in the roof area.


----------



## Mark Dorais

Ron Gross said:


> Hey Mark,
> You and I go back a long way, and I always have tremendous respect for your opinion on all things Irwin Allen (as well as your incredible art talent, BTW). However, on this one issue, I'm not sure I can agree with you. Please take a look at the attached image, which is a composite of the hero J2, and Jim Piszar's award wining PL J2 build up from 1998. The angles look very close to me, however, there is an issue with the degree of rooftop curvature on the PL that may create an illusion such as you describe. What do you think?


 I do see your point in the two photos Ron. Sometimes photo-compression can alter what we view. And you are correct, the rooftop curvature can effect the appearance.


----------



## Ron Gross

Mark Dorais said:


> I do see your point in the two photos Ron. Sometimes photo-compression can alter what we view. And you are correct, the rooftop curvature can effect the appearance.


You are so right. Another point to consider when photographing any model of the J2 is to put some distance between the model and the camera, and then zoom in. I have found that my best results were actually achieved by using a telephoto lens. This process dramatically decreases the "spherize" or "fish eye" effect, and is really one's only hope of coming up with a shot that looks like the classic stock footage landing scene. You can always judge success by observing the size of the viewport area in the final image.


----------



## Y3a

They used a 3 percent fish-eye lens from about 35 feet away for the SPFX shots involving the 4 footer. The fisheye makes it look like a larger model photographed with a portrait lens.


----------



## Ron Gross

This makes sense. But the point is that the conditions were apparently very well controlled, to produce repeatable and consistent results. I suspect that all too many J2 model builders simply fill the frame with the model using a standard lens, only to be either surprised or disappointed with the results. You should have seen the first photos of my prototype that were featured on the old "Priplanus" web site back in 1997. Fortunately, I had the model re-shot, and those are the images that can still be seen on Cult's site to this day.

May I ask where your hero J2 photography info came from?


----------



## Y3a

Actually, "REPEATABLE" was not attainable. The SPFX shots were usually 116 - 180 frames per second! All the Pyro scenes were filmed at 180. This required the model to be yanked up in a hurry and the blast from under has to be timed just right, and the rest of those scenes either required the gear to drop smoothly, and the model NOT to be swinging on the 50 foot boom.

If you grab the Lost in Space Forever DVD, and 'somehow' grab the SPFX clips of the J2, notice the speed of the film on the Clapper. You want to speed the clips back up to the speed they were filmed at. Quite an eye opener!


----------



## Y3a

" May I ask where your hero J2 photography info came from?"

A combination of places. L.B. Abbotts book, where they discussed flying models and it was mostly about the flying Sub but did mention this was a common practice the Lydecker Bros. figured out. The 2nd place was an article I can't find which interviewed Howard Lydecker as he talked in general terms as he discussed "1941" in which he advised them for the flying sequences. Hmmmmm........ Maybe Cinefex?


----------



## Zathros

Great that Moebius is coming out with a new Jupiter 2..I myself, am very satisfied with the PL version, since it fits my space constraints...Not sure if I will purchase this one, as again, its simply too big for me...but its great to see that this subject is still being entertained...Moebius did a fantsatic job with the pod & chariot..I bought my usual 2 of each..it should be interesting to see what this Jupiter 2 is going to look like this time around..


----------



## Richard Baker

I have 2 PLs (includeding one strange chrome version) but I will be getting the Moebius kit without fail. I am not too much into the figures but Moebius has redefined how to make vehicle kits.


----------



## JPhil123

Zathros said:


> Great that Moebius is coming out with a new Jupiter 2..I myself, am very satisfied with the PL version, since it fits my space constraints...Not sure if I will purchase this one, as again, its simply too big for me...but its great to see that this subject is still being entertained...Moebius did a fantsatic job with the pod & chariot..I bought my usual 2 of each..it should be interesting to see what this Jupiter 2 is going to look like this time around..


Hello,

I think the new Jupiter 2 will no doubt be fabulous. But, display space is an issue for me as well. I will buy and build the new Jupiter 2, but I don't have the space for multiples of it. For me it will probably be one built, and one stored away. Very recently, I had to remove the electronics from the PL C57D I built (which can be made nice but is way to big IMO) and carefully store it away to make room for other kits I want to display more (the smaller Seaview, the new Jupiter 2, a Pod and Chariot). And, of course, if there are other Irwin Allen vehicle kits on the horizon, space is going to be tight.

Regards,
Jim


----------



## Moebius

464 posts, I'm starting to think you guys may have an interest in a Jupiter 2.....


----------



## stunttunneler

Anyone care to speculate on the first Jupiter?

Do you think they continued the program beyond the loss of the Jupiter 2?

Should be good for some speculative builds now that J2 kits are going to be a

renewable resource again.

Also there is the detriorated future jupiter from the series, and the anti matter universe Jupiter from the series!


----------



## bert model maker

Stunttunneler, do you realize that you are using my PERSONAL avatar ? please choose another as this is for my personal use only !
BERT
MODEL MAKER


----------



## stunttunneler

Then can I have your permission to use it? It's just for a few days until I can get my old account back, you see the moderators banned me! Now everything I had planned is ruined. I'll take it off when I get back later tonight if you refuse to let me use the avatar.


----------



## bert model maker

Why would you want to use MY identity ?
bert
Model Maker


----------



## JPhil123

Moebius said:


> 464 posts, I'm starting to think you guys may have an interest in a Jupiter 2.....


Hello!

I think there's interest, that's for sure. And, just to have an opportunity to post comments about a model kit destined to become - and possibly to be remembered for all time as - THE science fiction vehicle kit of the 21st Century is just fantastic!

Thank You.

Regards,
Jim Crompton


----------



## Ron Gross

Jim,
Great to see you here! If your contributions to this forum are as valuable as they are to the Yahoo LIS forum, we are lucky to have you.


----------



## JPhil123

Ron Gross said:


> Jim,
> Great to see you here! If your contributions to this forum are as valuable as they are to the Yahoo LIS forum, we are lucky to have you.


Hi, Again...

Thank You! The Yahoo LIS forum is terrific. 

And, this forum is wonderful too. We model builders and collectors are a unique breed for sure. While individual interests vary, those differences are what makes us rather special. I figure that each of us are really on a similar quest: to have, build and/or hold that special replica in the flesh. I'm glad to be a part of it. I'm glad you are involved as well.

Regards,
Jim


----------



## bert model maker

I appologize to everyone here for going off topic when i saw someone attempting to use my identity to get onto hobbytalk. I got a lot of e mails alerting me to this. I couldn't believe his last stunttunneler post wanting to use my IDentity. I want to make this public here since it happened here & who knows where else on HT. I never have and never will insult or in any way say anything against anyone here on hobbytalk because of my deep respect for each and everyone of you ! If something is said or implied against any member here and it "appears " that it came from me because the post has my name and avatar on it rest assured it will NOT be ME saying it. I was fooled once by a post i could not remember posting and i was tired when i read it and i finally realized although it had my name Model Maker and my avatar, It wasn't me who posted it. So if it got past me for a few minutes It could get by anyone else with a quick glance, so i want to keep my good name "GOOD" and will protect it with all I have. Again, I have a very deep respect for all of you here and will NEVER, EVER do or say anything to lose your respect or friendship here on HobbyTalk. so now back to the JUPITER 2.
Bert
Model Maker


----------



## Antimatter

Gee I wonder who stunttunneler was?


----------



## Auroranut

It was our favourite local sociopath.... 
Bert, anyone who knows you and has read your posts knows that you wouldn't show disrespect unless it was deserved - you're too decent a guy for that.
He's gone- lets pretend he was never here and get on with enjoying our forums again....
Now back to our usual prattle....

Chris.


----------



## toyroy

Moebius said:


> 464 posts, I'm starting to think you guys may have an interest in a Jupiter 2.....


I'm very much looking forward to it! :thumbsup:


----------



## teslabe

Moebius said:


> 464 posts, I'm starting to think you guys may have an interest in a Jupiter 2.....


I'm not sure, but you could be right......


----------



## starseeker

JPhil123 said:


> Hello!
> 
> And, just to have an opportunity to post comments about a model kit destined to become - and possibly to be remembered for all time as - THE science fiction vehicle kit of the 21st Century is just fantastic!
> 
> Thank You.
> 
> Regards,
> Jim Crompton


Sorry, this is a Jupiter 2 thread. You want one of the Moebius Seaview threads.


----------



## Richard Baker

starseeker said:


> Sorry, this is a Jupiter 2 thread. You want one of the Moebius Seaview threads.


I have heard that is a nice model...

Actually I need to wait for the 1/350 kit- I do not have room for a three foot anything here.

.


----------



## teslabe

Richard Baker said:


> I have heard that is a nice model...
> 
> Actually I need to wait for the 1/350 kit- I do not have room for a three foot anything here.
> 
> .


I just solved my problem, I'm moving into a two bedroom apartment.....:thumbsup:


----------



## Dar

teslabe said:


> I just solved my problem, I'm moving into a two bedroom apartment.....:thumbsup:


One whole room for modeling and displaying huh. I have a small three bedroom house and 1 room is used for that and my computer.


----------



## Capt. Krik

Moebius said:


> 464 posts, I'm starting to think you guys may have an interest in a Jupiter 2.....


 
I believe this is what my old high school english teacher use to call an understatement.

I would say the level of interest in this kit skews to the high side.


----------



## teslabe

Dar said:


> One whole room for modeling and displaying huh. I have a small three bedroom house and 1 room is used for that and my computer.


It's been hard, I sold my house at the hight of the buying frenzy in 05 and put the money in the bank. But to go from a three bedroom house to a one bedroom apartment has been hard, no place for all the Moebius models I've been buying from Cult TVman. I needed a room just for my models, can't wait for the J-2.......:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


----------



## gareee

I just hope any instrument panels that can be lit are cast in clear. A larger kit without the ability to light it easily will be a huge disapointment.


----------



## bert model maker

I think it will be a thing of beauty and i bet we will all be very happy with the detail Moebius will put into it.
Bert


----------



## gareee

Oh, I have no question in my mind at all about quality, and detailing. But each kit they have released has been a pain in the rump to light, and didn't have to be.

Even the flying sub has parts not cast in clear that are begging to be lit up.

People shouldn;t have to spend twice to cost of the original kit to get parts cast in clear that should have been clear in the original kit.

Why figures can't be included is beyond me. My old Invaders aurora ship from 1969 had plenty of figures included. Freeze tube figures would be fine, and maybe 2 seated males for the controls.

Wonder if the chariot robot will be in scale? Or maybe the Johnny Lightening robot?


----------



## Seaview

gareee said:


> Oh, I have no question in my mind at all about quality, and detailing. But each kit they have released has been a pain in the rump to light, and didn't have to be.
> 
> ...People shouldn;t have to spend twice to cost of the original kit to get parts cast in clear that should have been clear in the original kit.


 
I know what you mean, and the most obvious ones for the Jupiter 2 kit to have cast in clear are the 3 freezing tube walls, the computer bank wall next to the airlock, and of course, the pilot flight control panels on the dashboard.
We'll just have to wait and see. :dude:


----------



## Richard Baker

I would love to see almost the entire interior cast in clear- even the ceiling ribs. If eople are not going to light it they are going to paint over everything anyway, but for the lighting folks they could light up every button and light fixture if they want to take it that far. I thought the clear floor in the Flying Sub was agreat idea, I do wish they had also done the side walls and front console as well.
I know it would affct price, but I would happily pay extra for that. Maybe a special edition (like the glow in the dark kits) but with wider distribution...


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## Dave Metzner

There are a significant number of clear parts planned for the interior of the kit.


Dave


----------



## bert model maker

Dave, can you say wether or not if the fusion core part will be a 2 piece deal so the cage can be painted and then a clear insert can be dropped in ? masking off the PL J-2s clear part with 64 tiny frames was a major pain to do.


----------



## toyroy

Dave Metzner said:


> There are a significant number of clear parts planned for the interior of the kit.


This is good. Thank you! 



Richard Baker said:


> I would love to see (the ceiling ribs) cast in clear...


I'd prefer the ribs to be made the way the set prototypes are: two parallel opaque walls, with clear edging. They should look good that way, even if not painted or illuminated.


----------



## toyroy

model maker said:


> Dave, can you say wether or not if the fusion core part will be a 2 piece deal so the cage can be painted and then a clear insert can be dropped in ? masking off the PL J-2s clear part with 64 tiny frames was a major pain to do.


Great question! 

Also, will the core frame feature the "fins"?


----------



## StarshipClass

Just a quick OT comment regarding personal avatars since Bert's and a few others have had theirs used repeatedly: how about having your avatars taken off the list of avatars so that no one else can get them so easily. 

I host my avatar off the website (not that anyone would want it but me  ). However, since Bert's and a couple of others are so darned attractive that they keep getting snagged, it might make sense to remove the temptation of such an easy and tempting target. 

Now, back to topic:

I'd like to convert one of my J2 kits to a Gemini XII. I think this kit is bound to be closer in dimensions to the original J2 as well as to the Gemini XII--for the upper hull that is. Am I correct in this assumption?


----------



## Steve244

Dave Metzner said:


> There are a significant number of clear parts planned for the interior of the kit.
> 
> 
> Dave


sigh... I was hoping for a clear hull: The Visible J2!


----------



## Richard Baker

Steve244 said:


> sigh... I was hoping for a clear hull: The Visible J2!


And stuff the space between the interior and the outer hull with greebly?

Regarding the ceiling ribs- full clear casting and you just mask the inner curve surface then paint- less aprts and you don't ahve to woory about the clear part getting marred by glue.


----------



## gareee

Why would you need the ceiling ribs clear? Were they used as ceiling light panels in the series?


----------



## StarshipClass

Steve244 said:


> sigh... I was hoping for a clear hull: The Visible J2!


:roll:


----------



## StarshipClass

gareee said:


> Why would you need the ceiling ribs clear? Were they used as ceiling light panels in the series?


Yes, but I've seen good results from white reflective tape so it's not a biggy for me.


----------



## DLHamblin

Moebius said:


> 464 posts, I'm starting to think you guys may have an interest in a Jupiter 2.....


Yes, definitely!:wave:


----------



## Seaview

Steve244 said:


> sigh... I was hoping for a clear hull: The Visible J2!


 
It just so happens I have a MIB clear hull Jupiter 2, 16" in diameter.

If you're interested in getting it, feel free to PM me. :wave:


----------



## hedorah59

Richard Baker said:


> Maybe a special edition (like the glow in the dark kits) but with wider distribution...


Ooooohhh... A Glow in the Dark J2. 

Maybe I'm the only one crazy enough to want one :freak:


And yes, I know Richard was talking about a clear J2.


----------



## Richard Baker

Didn't the J-2 glow in it's first take off from the Gantry?

.


----------



## Vindi

Richard Baker said:


> Didn't the J-2 glow in it's first take off from the Gantry?
> 
> .


Why yes...yes it did. That was the first thought that crossed my mind when I saw the "glow-in-the-dark" idea.


----------



## toyroy

gareee said:


> Why would you need the ceiling ribs clear? Were they used as ceiling light panels in the series?


You don't remember? The edges of the support walls pulsated with light.


----------



## Richard Baker

http://wesclark.com/am/lis_dome.jpg


----------



## Seaview

Well, THAT was certainly interesting; I just clicked the link for wesclark.com to see what you were referring to, when all of a sudden I got a warning from my anti-virus software that that was an unsafe site, and got out of it before it fully loaded.
Did anybody else get that warning from their PC?

ADDENDUM: I was able to open it with my work station PC, but not my home PC. Richard, you're right; it has something to do with the different security systems I have at both locations. Thanks for the link!


----------



## toyroy

^No. Doh!


----------



## teslabe

Seaview said:


> Well, THAT was certainly interesting; I just clicked the link for wesclark.com to see what you were referring to, when all of a sudden I got a warning from my anti-virus software that that was an unsafe site, and got out of it before it fully loaded.
> Did anybody else get that warning from their PC?


I didn't ether.....


----------



## Richard Baker

I just ried th elink here at work (different security software and it seems OK- I will bring it into Photobucket shortly to avaoid any potential problems.
One of the drawbacks of a Goole Iamge serch I suppose...

.


----------



## Richard Baker

Photobucket:
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e267/RBaker2164/lis_dome.jpg


----------



## Seaview

Nice! As regards to the caption, the domed console (aka, the central astrogator) was re-dressed for the second season, and the spinning disk inside was redecorated for the third season by the addition of a swirling black stripe.


----------



## toyroy

Seaview said:


> ...the spinning disk inside (the astrogator) was redecorated for the third season by the addition of a swirling black stripe.


Psychedelic, man! :freak:


----------



## oshkosh619

Hmmm... somehow I remember *Judy* as being more impressive... :tongue:


----------



## Steve244

her tailor (swansons tv dinners from the looks of it) did a great job.


----------



## Seaview

I think the swirling black line was just to make it a little more groovy.


----------



## Richard Baker

Seaview said:


> I think the swirling black line was just to make it a little more groovy.


Why did they stop there? The Freezing Tubes would have made awesome Lava Lamps...

.


----------



## toyroy

Richard Baker said:


> Why did they stop there? The Freezing Tubes would have made awesome Lava Lamps...


Aw c'mon! Lava lamps are nice, but the freezing tubes are _FAR OUT!_ I think it'd be _so cool_ to simulate the lighting effect of the tube's start up- even better, if I could get the doors to work...


----------



## gareee

Hmmm... didn't the freeze tube doors kinda rotate into themselves? That might actually be pretty easy for Moebius to do with the new model kit.


----------



## toyroy

Would be nice. They'd need to be pretty thin, to look right. 

Also, I hope the center of the freezing tube bases and tops are clear.


----------



## Punchcard76

I can't wait for the new J2. I have one LM 16.5" (shell only) never completed only painted and two PL 12" that I have never started. I'd probabily E-bay them to buy the new J2. :thumbsup:

Too bad no one has ever tried dividing up the upper & lower decks into sections like the Enterprise Nx01 playsets (only we would never PLAY with them !) to build individually.


----------



## DaDragon

*Late again!!!*

Hi all,

Trust me to come into this thread late on  , but its been an interesting read :thumbsup: ! I'm looking forward to the new Moebius release, but from a practical point of view (I hope!) the Robinsons would've needed to 'camp out' in the ship on arrival, until off-ship accommodation had been errected and equipped. I therefore favour a two deck configuration, but accept the limitations imposed by the original SFX designs.

The TARDIS effect is relatively common in TV and Cinema, being characterised by the inside of a craft being bigger - in some cases _MUCH_ bigger - than the outside :freak: ! This has presented model-makers with problems almost as long as there have been model-makers!!

One logical rework of the J2 to include all possible options came to the conclusion that the J2 should've been 84 feet in diameter:









I have upper and lower deck plans for this expanded J2, but have no notes as to who holds copyright on them; I've had them quite a while. So if I stamp on toes, it was not intentional and I apologise unreservedly.

Got to resize them 'cos they're 700k+. will post when they're resized.

Graham.


----------



## DaDragon

*Done!*

Plans for the 84 foot J2, as promised  :















Again: if I've stomped on toes, I didn't mean to and I apologise unreservedly.

Best wishes :wave:,

Graham.


----------



## Opus Penguin

Your design is great but where would the Space Pod go?


----------



## DR. PRETORIOUS

What about the Space Pod bay?


----------



## DaDragon

Opus Penguin said:


> Your design is great but where would the Space Pod go?





DR. PRETORIOUS said:


> What about the Space Pod bay?


Sorry guys, can't help  : I trawled these images up off the i'net about the time the PL 12" J2 came out and can't remember where from (I always was s#!t at keeping research references ).

I would guess somewhere between the 11 o'clock and 12 o'clock positions on the lower deck, but this is just a guess as it was never marked !

Best wishes :wave: ,

Graham.


----------



## Ron Gross

Are you Graham Edwards, by any chance? The guy who won the PL J2 build up contest in '99?


----------



## X15-A2

In the case of the Jupiter II design, "bigger" is definitely "better". As seen in the show, the ship was just too darned small for the mission. I like the idea that there would be a lot of space available behind the main interior walls for systems, storage and additional compartments. Those 84' diameter plans look pretty good.


----------



## toyroy

I think Hank must be an avatar sadist. :freak:


----------



## Krel

I see you listed a head in the 84 foot plans but said that the tv show version didn't have one. I beg to differ, it did, they just never brought the camera into that part of the set. I read once that it was a combination laundry room/bathroom.

I think with most movie/tv vehicles you are suppose to accept that the vehicle is really larger than shown. Look at the ST shuttlecraft, Matt Jefferies designed it as a small vehicle, look at how the actors and actresses have to hunch over entering and exiting the exterior set. But after it was built the powers that be decided that they wanted the actors to be able to stand in it so the interior set was built larger than the exterior set. Remember these things have to fit in the available space whether it is filmed outside, or in a soundstage. 

David.


----------



## Richard Baker

The only exception to the inside larger to the outside I can think of was the Proteus in Fantastic Voyage. The exterior and interior was built as a single set- though of course it did suffer from- 'no room for essential hardware' problem...


----------



## Tim Nolan

Well, I've been hedging on even posting my Jupiter in progress here. You guys have done some fantastic work, and are a wealth of knowledge on this thing, so you'll probably have lot's of "wrongs" to point out, but here it is anyways. I'm not a tried and true sci-fi builder, but I love the show now as much as I did as a a kid, and actually having a model of the J2 to build is a lifelong dream come true. I have used a ton of reference photo's on color, but have taken some artistic license of my own it as well. I'm an airbrush artist, and I use primarily automotive grade paints, so when I started airbrushing the hull with Tamiya rattle-cans, it just didn't cut it for me. Back into primer, I shot it with House of Kolors Orion Silver microflake basecoat, followed by HOK Kosmic Klear with just the tiniest pinch of microscopic rainbow flake in the mix. Here's the result:








I have also used the core lighting system from Strange Stuff Studios, and am quite pleased with it. To get rid of the stair seams, I made new step tops and fronts from plastruct and grafted them over the originals.








On the interior, I am using the TSDS decal set, which is excellent! I'm also using the translucent mylar set off ebay so I can do some interior lighting as well. I know my colors are off in the interior. I have used mainly flats. I just didn't like the look of the gloss floor, personal hangup I guess! 








































Still lots of final touch up when I get to the end. (Don't look at my tape lines!)
I'm really enjoying building this kit, as I did the Moebius Seaview. You have to understand, I'm a hotrod artist and car/bike/fink builder normally, so this is a different route for me!


----------



## DR. PRETORIOUS

Excellent work Tim


----------



## Antimatter

Are we suppose to get some pictures from Moebius before Wonderfest of the upcoming kits? My wife and I were going but the kids have ballgames.


----------



## Seaview

I think we'll need to wait a few more days.
I wish I were going, too.


----------



## Richard Baker

Starship Modeler has a few threads where they hop to post new announcements- if anything does show up there i will pas it along.

.


----------



## Dar

Good work Tim.:thumbsup:


----------



## Tim Nolan

Crap, I just realized I shouldn't have posted this on here since it isn't a Moebius kit! What the heck was I thinking!? Sorry Dave! Didn't mean to hijack the thread! I'll see if I can figure out how to move it, although I'm not the most savvy person at this stuff! Again, sorry guys!


----------



## Richard Baker

Tim Nolan said:


> Crap, I just realized I shouldn't have posted this on here since it isn't a Moebius kit! What the heck was I thinking!? Sorry Dave! Didn't mean to hijack the thread! I'll see if I can figure out how to move it, although I'm not the most savvy person at this stuff! Again, sorry guys!


If you are refering to th ePL-J2 Build, it does fit the discussion somewhat since everybody is comparing the features of that particular kit to the dream list of the upcoming one.


----------



## Opus Penguin

I sure hope we see a prototype of Moebius' kit at Wonderfest this weekend, or at least a description of what features it will have.


----------



## toyroy

Tim Nolan said:


> ...it isn't a Moebius kit! What the heck was I thinking!?...


This is exactly where your build should be, since this is the locus of Jupiter 2 modeling discussion right now. Great floor, BTW!


----------



## DaDragon

*Still late!!!*

Hi guys,

Sorry about the delay responding, but my son installed a new router five weeks ago (he said he couldn't connect to the the broadband connection via the old one, though I was getting 1.2Mb/sec download speeds at the time!) and I've only had one day of halfway reliable connection since . . .between 45bits and 10.2k!! I can't even get my e-mail the past few days  , but I digress.



Ron Goss said:


> Are you Graham Edwards, by any chance? The guy who won the PL J2 build up contest in '99?


Sorry Ron, I'm a piece of string . . .a frayed knot! Great to meet you at last: I've been an admirer of your work for quite a while. :wave:



X15-A2 said:


> Those 84' diameter plans look pretty good.


I thought so when I found them, so I decided to include them in my last post.



Krel said:


> I see you listed a head in the 84 foot plans but said that the tv show version didn't have one. I beg to differ, it did, they just never brought the camera into that part of the set. I read once that it was a combination laundry room/bathroom.


Sorry Krel, but those are _*NOT *_my plans. I found them while trawling the net for references around the time the 12" PL J2 came out. I didn't keep a record of where, or by whom, but I got much of my J2 material from CultTVman.
A shared bathroom/utility room would indicate the presence of a lower deck; there was no additional room on the flightdeck unless they pulled the can out and shared with all!! And I'm not sure the Robinson's wouldn't be very happy using a washing machine that doubles as a can!!! :lol:



Richard Baker said:


> The only exception to the inside larger to the outside I can think of was the Proteus in Fantastic Voyage. The exterior and interior was built as a single set- though of course it did suffer from- 'no room for essential hardware' problem...


Hi Richard. I'm really pleased you brought the Proteus up as I hope Moebius will consider a 24th-35th scale styrene offering of this, the Icarus from 'Planet Of The Apes' and 'The Invader's' UFO at some point in the future. I've been doing some work on the latter in AutoCAD using the Series 2 episode 'The Saucer' as a yardstick: the interior would not fit in a craft less that 60 feet in diameter! I don't want to stretch this thread too far, so that's all I'll say on the topic of other sci-fi craft for the present .

Tim Nolan: excellent work :thumbsup:. We're _*all *_looking forward to further progress photos. Artistic license is fine as is detail interpretation: I build to my own interpretation and (very rusty!) memory as its these impressions, interpretations and memories that make us what we are (WOW . . .that's too deep, especially for me :freak:!!!). I didn't build a thing for almost 10 years because I didn't trust either and felt I couldn't live up to my overinflated standards . . .running out of display space in my home didn't help either!!! Keep up the great work.

I've said enough . . .or more likely too much!!! :drunk:

All the best to all,

Graham.


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## robiwon

I saw the 18 inch Jupiter 2 at Wonderfest!!!!!!!! Well, a slide show on a monitor. All I can say is WOW!!!!! This thing will blow away the PL. The hull looks perfect, the elevator cage is well, a cage! We have detailed gear wells, the half circle detail in the top dome, the list goes on. Plus, I got to speak with Ron Gross! What an honor. Can not wait for December to get here!!!!!


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## Kevin Read

Hi Guys,:wave: First post on here and extremely excited about the new J2 kit. I started posting on Culttvman's site after the release of the chariot and pod kits, which were both awesome kits. I read about this site over there month's ago and haven't missed a day of reading since.

I don't know about you guy's, but I like the large artwork of the J2 in the pic that robiwon posted and would sure love that artwork in the same size poster to hang on my wall. :thumbsup:


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## Opus Penguin

I hope we see pics here soon or on Moebius' site. Any idea on when it might be released as a kit?


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## Richard Baker

Robiwon mentioned December, but I would wait for furter confirmation before assuming anything.


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## fire91bird

Not official confirmation, I know, but there was a sign that said December 2009 attached to the monitor displaying the Jupiter 2 pictures. Although the pics were of the prototype, the detail seems to be easily on par with the Flying Sub. I was particularly pleased with how the landing gear is looking, but the detail all around is impressive.


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## Richard Baker

I know it is asking a lot but did you see any indication in the slide show presentation about the J-2 which pieces might be transparent?


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## toyroy

Kevin Read said:


> Hi Guys,:wave: First post on here and extremely excited about the new J2 kit...I like the large artwork of the J2 in the pic that robiwon posted and would sure love that artwork in the same size poster to hang on my wall. :thumbsup:


I'm not a HobbyTalk official, but welcome. Ron Gross, who did the artwork, comes by here sometimes.


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## fire91bird

No, I'm sorry I didn't find out what would be transparent, although I was wondering myself, especially the control panels. I didn't think to ask, I was too busy being impressed by what I did see. :thumbsup: If I get the chance tomorrow, I may ask.


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## teslabe

Come on guys, we need picturse......


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## bert model maker

Robiwon phoned me today from wonderfest and told me all he knew about the moebius 18 inch Jupiter 2. It sounds like it is really going to be something. he said it makes the PL J-2 look like a snap together 2 dollar toy. I can't wait to see pictures of it.


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## Seaview

I can't wait to see the photos, either! I'm hoping for "A Very Robinson Christmas" this year, but it'll get here when it gets here. :woohoo:


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## Antimatter

Can we get a picture of the slide?


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## Kevin Read

toyroy said:


> I'm not a HobbyTalk official, but welcome. Ron Gross, who did the artwork, comes by here sometimes.


Yes, I am familiar with his work and he is a very talented person.


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## Tim Nolan

You guys are killing me! I'm laughing yes, but I can't wait to see the new J2!
Of course, I'll still be plodding away on my PL for now to ease the pain....Oh, the pain.....the pain.....:tongue:


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## bert model maker

very nice Jupiter 2 Tim, any more pictures ?


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## toyroy

Tim,
I like the calibration dial on your astrogator dome. Did you make that yourself?


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## robiwon

I didn't take pics of the slide show because it was a monitor. I'm sure they will show up soon. But OMG, the new J2 is fantastic. Now, I'm not knocking the PL kit. It was a great model in its day, but with the advancements, it just wont compare. Most of the pics were of a prototype I guess. But I would have to say that we don't have to worry about clear parts at all!


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## Richard Baker

Does anybody have any references to the J-2's Crash Shields as seen from the _outside_?
Insteadt of reworking the interior of my unbuilt PL kit I thing I will just have it with th eshuuters colosed. Right now it is just sitting on it's gera with the pieces just the hull and windows/dome positioned on it. I think scratchin gup a set of crash doors and leaving th einterior empty would be the best way to leave it for now. 
I have references of the interior of the crash doors but I do not know if they had the same pattern on the exterior...


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## starseeker

They were completely plain and smooth on the outside, no pattern, and (according to Jim Key in a '98 FSFM Mag) gold in color.


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## Tim Nolan

Thanks guys. I know it's a pretty backwoods attempt compared to most of your work, but I'm tryin' my hardest to make this nice! The astrogator dial is from the "Outer Space Outifitters" set of translucent details for the J2. I am also using the TSDS decal set, which I can't say enough good things about as well! 
























These control panels are all from the OSO set as well as some on the other walls.








I sure wish someone would do some scale figures for this thing!


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## Richard Baker

starseeker said:


> They were completely plain and smooth on the outside, no pattern, and (according to Jim Key in a '98 FSFM Mag) gold in color.


Thanks!

.


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## Gary K

Richard Baker said:


> Does anybody have any references to the J-2's Crash Shields as seen from the _outside_?
> Insteadt of reworking the interior of my unbuilt PL kit I thing I will just have it with th eshuuters colosed. Right now it is just sitting on it's gera with the pieces just the hull and windows/dome positioned on it. I think scratchin gup a set of crash doors and leaving th einterior empty would be the best way to leave it for now.
> I have references of the interior of the crash doors but I do not know if they had the same pattern on the exterior...


To film interior scenes of the shutters on the full-scale studio set, they built a wooden framework on the outside skin of the ship and slid a pair of painted panels across the window opening. 

The interior cockpit set featured a pair of auxiliary flight controls that slid out from the side walls of the cockpit, but for some reason, they were never filmed. In "Deadliest of the Species", they showed an exterior shot of Major West at the controls while the shutters began to close. They filmed the scene in close-up, and an extending auxiliary flight control panel stood in for a collision shutter.

For exterior shots of the closed shutters (see "Deadliest of the Species"), they took the easy (cheap) way out and laid three thin sheets of material (cardboard??), painted to match the hull, over each of the window panes.

The 4 ft hero model had a pair of sliding shutters that were recessed behind the fiberglass walls of the model, but as far as I know, they weren't shown onscreen. As you can see below, the shutters were painted gold, but we don't know if the gold paint was applied before or after the model was filmed for LIS.










When I designed retracted shutters for the Moebius Jupiter 2, I largely replicated the shutters from the hero model, and added tracks for the shutters in the upper & lower window sills.

Gary


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## RSN

starseeker said:


> They were completely plain and smooth on the outside, no pattern, and (according to Jim Key in a '98 FSFM Mag) gold in color.


The few times you see them on the full size set and the full-size mock-up, they are silver. They can be seen in "Visit to a Hostile Planet" on the full size, and in "Deadliest of the Species" on the studio set. Jim's good, but I had to convince him years ago that the red lights on the communications station were diamonds and not round.


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## RSN

Gary K said:


> To film interior scenes of the shutters on the full-scale studio set, they built a wooden framework on the outside skin of the ship and slid a pair of painted panels across the window opening.
> 
> The interior cockpit set featured a pair of auxiliary flight controls that slid out from the side walls of the cockpit, but for some reason, they were never filmed. In "Deadliest of the Species", they showed an exterior shot of Major West at the controls while the shutters began to close. They filmed the scene in close-up, and an extending auxiliary flight control panel stood in for a collision shutter.
> 
> For exterior shots of the closed shutters (see "Deadliest of the Species"), they took the easy (cheap) way out and laid three thin sheets of material (cardboard??), painted to match the hull, over each of the window panes.
> 
> The 4 ft hero model had a pair of sliding shutters that were recessed behind the fiberglass walls of the model, but as far as I know, they weren't shown onscreen. As you can see below, the shutters were painted gold, but we don't know if the gold paint was applied before or after the model was filmed for LIS.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I designed retracted shutters for the Moebius Jupiter 2, I largely replicated the shutters from the hero model, and added tracks for the shutters in the upper & lower window sills.
> 
> Gary


I also noted that the screens were three separate panels, it was very obvious and cheap looking on the outside. Interesting photo showing the gold shutters on the top windows. Doesn't make sense that that was the original color if the lower shutter was the hull color. We will never now since they were never filmed on the miniature, only the full size set.


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## Gary K

RSN said:


> I also noted that the screens were three separate panels, it was very obvious and cheap looking on the outside. Interesting photo showing the gold shutters on the top windows. Doesn't make sense that that was the original color if the lower shutter was the hull color. We will never now since they were never filmed on the miniature, only the full size set.


Since the interiors of the shutters were painted in an aluminum/dark gray paint scheme, I'd be inclined to make the exteriors match the silvery exterior hull color. At least, they'd be consistent with the cheap-looking exterior shutters shown in "Deadliest of the Species".

Gary


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## Opus Penguin

Oh boy .. here comes the debate on the color of the shields LOL :freak: :tongue:

So if the model comes with shields (forgive me I didn't catch the confirmation on this), what color should it be? Sounds like on screen it was silver but on one of the props it was gold.


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## Gary K

Opus Penguin said:


> Oh boy .. here comes the debate on the color of the shields LOL :freak: :tongue:
> 
> So if the model comes with shields (forgive me I didn't catch the confirmation on this), what color should it be? Sounds like on screen it was silver but on one of the props it was gold.


The shields on the Moebius model are molded as retracted, so there are no issues, unless you scratch-build some shields. On second thought, I'm wondering if the "gold" collision shutters on the 4-footer are actually unpainted brass. I'll have to ask a friend of mine who worked on the 4-footer if he remembers any details about the shutters.

Gary


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## Richard Baker

I sort of like the idea of having them a different color than silver. They would stand out as more of a material that the hull- perhaps a stronger alloy.
I like the fact Moebius is adding th eretracted shields and tracks- it shows how complete the representation will be. I am hoping they will also have those retractable sensor thingies that poped out of the circles on the top too.

.


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## Gary K

Richard Baker said:


> I like the fact Moebius is adding the retracted shields and tracks- it shows how complete the representation will be. I am hoping they will also have those retractable sensor thingies that poped out of the circles on the top too.


Sorry, but those antennae had to be nixed, since the parts count for the kit was already well in excess of 200 - but I'll bet that *somebody* will be making aftermarket antennae, and maybe even the observatory blister for the rear roof hatch.

Gary


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## Captain Han Solo

*The shutters were painted "Gold" for "City Beneath the Sea".*
*When the Jupiter Two Miniatures were used as Futuristic Buildings.*

*In the Production of Lost In Space they were the SAME color as the Hull of the Jupiter Two.*

*Gary, That's great news you guys went to great Lengths to capture that so often overlooked detail on the main view port, The Shutter Track:thumbsup:.*

*No one has got it right, Lunar,Polar Lights..ETC...*


*High Regards,*
*BP*


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## Richard Baker

Gary K said:


> Sorry, but those antennae had to be nixed, since the parts count for the kit was already well in excess of 200 - but I'll bet that *somebody* will be making aftermarket antennae, and maybe even the observatory blister for the rear roof hatch.
> 
> Gary


Aw shucks...

I do understand about trying to keep the parts count practical though.
Any rumors about whether the control panels are going to be clear for lighting?
That is the only frustration on the Flying Sub- I am casting my own replacments for that but with the J-2's abundance of lightable wall consoles I am really hoping to those on clear sprus...

.


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## falcondesigns

Now that the prototype has been shown,this thread should be closed.


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## Richard Baker

The Prototype has been shown at Wonderfest- I am hoping some iamges might get posted here so I can see first hand what everybody was describing.


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## Captain Han Solo

falcondesigns said:


> Now that the prototype has been shown,this thread should be closed.


 
:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


_Please, Please close this mess!!!_


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## falcondesigns

the post with the pictures has been up since last night.


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## starseeker

No, no, don't close this thread yet! What's this? - what's that? I've never heard of aux flight controls before. Are there any details, drawings? 



Gary K said:


> The interior cockpit set featured a pair of auxiliary flight controls that slid out from the side walls of the cockpit, but for some reason, they were never filmed.
> 
> 
> 
> Gary


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## DaDragon

*What!!??!*



falcondesigns said:


> Now that the prototype has been shown,this thread should be closed.


Why?  The model won't be out 'till the end of the year at best and there's so much more still still to discuss and learn. 

Graham.


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## robiwon

Umm, because we have this thread going now that is much more up to date and more on topic?
http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=255048


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## Antimatter

If it makes any difference, I started this thread and I agree that it should be closed now and discussion contuined on the new one.


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## Richard Baker

Antimatter said:


> If it makes any difference, I started this thread and I agree that it should be closed now and discussion contuined on the new one.


Actually it is a consolidated thread with a number of sources.

I think it might be useful from the standpoint of the Moebius Kit Thread is focused on that particular model kit now while this one covers all things J2-ish. Keeping this one going would prevent the other from veering too far off topic.

.


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## Gary K

starseeker said:


> No, no, don't close this thread yet! What's this? - what's that? I've never heard of aux flight controls before. Are there any details, drawings?


All I've ever found on the controls is the picture below, which I found at the Yahoo group on LIS props. It shows one of the surviving panels, plus an artist's rendering of what it would look like on the show. If you look at 3rd season shots of the side walls of the cockpit, you can see the outlines of the retracted panels (just inside the window glass), and you can see one of the panels in action in a quick shot in "Deadliest of the Species". If anyone else has any info on the panels, please speak up!

Gary


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## Dave Metzner

If everyone thinks it is the best interest to close this thread to avoid confusion, I will. Just say the word.


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## teslabe

PM Moderator said:


> If everyone thinks it is the best interest to close this thread to avoid confusion, I will. Just say the word.


NO....... Let the traffic dictate its fate.......:wave:

P.S. I think we have some who think they are the moderators of the group.


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## Richard Baker

teslabe said:


> NO....... Let the traffic dictate its fate.......:wave:
> 
> P.S. I think we have some who think they are the moderators of the group.


Agreed


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## Gemini1999

teslabe said:


> NO....... Let the traffic dictate its fate.......:wave:
> 
> P.S. I think we have some who think they are the moderators of the group.


I agree....leave it open and leave the moderating to the moderators.


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## teslabe

Gemini1999 said:


> I agree....leave it open and leave the moderating to the moderators.


So right my friend......:thumbsup:


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## starseeker

Gary K: Thanks! I did some searching and found blueprints for the thing:
http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/sMMUSn...ki_SN2zGzoZUxsXRiqjsVePJg/Apr. 14, 1966-2.jpg
http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/sMMUSh...cCtSYP1NejrkRxO-26FORAl3g/Apr. 14, 1966-3.jpg
http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/sMMUSr...-M99W-LVBOLcEJZ2j7G0T3nJQ/Apr. 21, 1966-3.jpg


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## Gary K

starseeker said:


> Gary K: Thanks! I did some searching and found blueprints for the thing:
> http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/sMMUSn...ki_SN2zGzoZUxsXRiqjsVePJg/Apr. 14, 1966-2.jpg
> http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/sMMUSh...cCtSYP1NejrkRxO-26FORAl3g/Apr. 14, 1966-3.jpg
> http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/sMMUSr...-M99W-LVBOLcEJZ2j7G0T3nJQ/Apr. 21, 1966-3.jpg


I'm getting a "The webpage cannot be found" error message when I click on the links. Can you verify the URLs?

Thanks,

Gary


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## Richard Baker

Gary K said:


> I'm getting a "The webpage cannot be found" error message when I click on the links. Can you verify the URLs?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Gary


They don't work for me either.


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## jeffking45

hello, gang i was wondering if anyone out there would like to have a stand alone lower deck kit in the same scale as the upper? this upper deck would be able to stacked on top of the lower if one wants or just by its self.


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## starseeker

I don't understand why that link doesn't work?? Sigh. But I tracked down where I found them: there are 3 of them in the alphabetized Files section of the Yahoo Lost in Space Props group:
http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/LostinSpaceProps/
Hope that link works.
The file names all start with "April" and end in "1966".


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## JAT

oshkosh619 said:


> Frank, Dave... and the whole staff at Moebius.... thank you.
> 
> The scope, beauty, quality and attention to detail of your kits is fantastic, and your dedication to those of us in the "IA" age group is surpassed by no production kit company - ever.
> 
> These kits bring back wonderful childhood memories of rushing home from school in the late 60's - early 70's, trying to get those damn Boston UHF TV channels in clearer so I could watch my beloved Seaview, Flying Sub, J2 and Chariot (never liked the pod, LOL). As many (most?) on these boards would admit, I could've cared less about the plots, characters, etc.* I WATCHED THESE SHOWS FOR THE SHIPS!!* And every moment wished someone made nice, accurate models (even at 6 I was a stickler for detail!) of these. Well, it took four decades, but your products have re-kindled all those happy times. Not to sound sappy, but there it is, plain and simple!
> 
> I plan on getting two J2's... one to build "production" and one to build "pilot" (you hear that aftermarket guys? Get to work on a Gemini XII lower hull profile and fusion core - I can handle making the front viewports bigger myself, but the rest I'd need your talents on!). I can't wait until these hit the shelves. And at 18", they'll even eclipse my 16" Lunar J2 (somewhat converted to GXII standards). Hats off to Moebius. You guys were willing to take the risk of producing kits of Sci-Fi conveyances that anyone under 40 probably never heard of! You guys keep hitting them out of the park!
> 
> Mike


I want to totally agree with the above post. A huge thanks to all involved at Moebius for bringing their talents to bear on not only a work of art but of love of the subject as well. It's been almost 40 years since my experience with the good people at Icons and I determined not to pursue such an endeavor again. I just pre-ordered four J-2's. So, lesson learned. Am also very interested in the potential for aftermarketing a Gemini ship. All very exciting. It's been a very long wait, thank you for making it worthwhile. Jeff


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## JAT

In an episode the robot falls in love with an evil female robot and the Robinsons have to fight a couple of silver humanoid drones of hers. They close the crash shields and do battle with a " super laser " weapon they cobble together. The exterior of the closed shields are featureless and the same color as the ship, and include the viewport dividers. The whole effect sort of looks like they simply painted over the glass portion of the viewports.


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## fastlap

*right place to post?*

So many J2 threads going on, so I chose this one to post the photos of the model. These were taken at the IHobby Expo in Chicago this past weekend. This is a fantastic model!!!!!


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## j2man

She's a Beauty! On in a million girl, one in a million girl.


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## Richard Baker

Looks better than I had imagined!

.


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## fastlap

*wow!*

What's really hard to imagine, is how really big this model is until you see it in person. I'm going to have to give serious thought as to how I'm going to display mine.

Oh, and BTW. The landing gear looks right at home on this model. I will be going for the hero gear, but this gear looks great also!!!!


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## Fernando Mureb

Fastlap
Do you have pictures of the kit interior from diferent angles?


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## Lloyd Collins

What about the 1GB USB Flash Stick?,of the Seaview on the left side of the interior of the J2 photo above?


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## fastlap

*yes*



Fernando Mureb said:


> Fastlap
> Do you have pictures of the kit interior from diferent angles?


I didn't post them due to all the reflection coming from the model being inside the glass case. Here are the rest of what I have.


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## fastlap

Lloyd Collins said:


> What about the 1GB USB Flash Stick?,of the Seaview on the left side of the interior of the J2 photo above?


Lloyd,

Only what you can see in the newer pics above. It was a decent rendition and it was about 4-5" long if I remember right. The nose pulled off to expose the flash drive.

Gary


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## Lloyd Collins

Gary,thanks for the info! 
It is at least a nice way to say, "I'm a VTTBOTS fan!".


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## Fernando Mureb

Gary,thanks for the pics.
You are absolutely right about the landing gears.


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## Fernando Mureb

*To Frank and Dave at Moebius*

Hi Frank and Dave
Any chance to post images (many) from the painted model exposed at iHobby?
Thanks


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## starseeker

If anyone hasn't already seen these, just a reminder to the links to my revised Jupiter 2 hull drawings:
http://s1004.photobucket.com/albums/af170/jkirkphotos/Jupiter 2 Hull Drawings/
and upper deck drawings:
http://s1004.photobucket.com/albums/af170/jkirkphotos/Jupiter 2 Upper Deck Drawings/
and copies of the Fox LIS blueprints I based them on:
http://s1004.photobucket.com/albums/af170/jkirkphotos/Fox LIS Blueprints/


----------

