# HO Scale issues - up to 1970



## christos_s (Jan 16, 2008)

*Early Period - Small scale ~1/87:*
Starting with some older cars like the Aurora vibrators or the German Rasants or even the first Fallers scale was close to HO=1/87
examples:
1.the Mercedes and Jaguar Aurora Vibrators
2.the Rasant european car models of the time such as the BMW, Mercedes, Ford of the time, especially interesting because they are early in-line motor designs - for example:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=150137344892&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=005
3. the Faller Ferrari GTO that is sooo small , just as vibrators
Help me is the Aurora MM Ferrari GTO larger?
4. JL-Playin Mantis pullback cars like the 50's Corvette convertible, though produced late enough to be called reproductions - not early stuff, fit here in terms of size.

*Middle Period - Tjets, the medium scale ~1/75:*
Hail the Tjet era! scale is mostly in the range of 1/80-1/70
1. Tjets the pancakes fit in these but are large for vibrator bodies.
The Lola, the Ford GT, the Chaparral, etc..etc
2. Faller produces similar scale European models some models overlap, making interesting body modeling comparisons. Chassis differ.
The Mercedes 230 and the Porsche912,904 among the most common.
3. Help me... are Marchon and Atlas in this or the first scale category?
3. Americal Line the split window Vette and the RollsRoyce on the small end of these can be convincing with the first category too...

*Late Period - Come the AFX NonM&Magnatraction the large HO scale ~1/64:*
Come the AFX NonM&Magnatraction (and then the G+ , but that's 1970's story) . Scale HO=1/64 is here ever since
1. Aurora AFX emphasis on race cars (not just sport/street models) My first as a kid were the Ferrari512 and the Porsche917. Even then (10yo) the scale differce with my previous favorite pets... the Chaparral and the GT were distracting, never liked racing them side-by-side
2. Faller soon followed with their AFX licencing but HOslotcar prime days were ending and soon (note: in Germany HO trains were-and-are The serious modelling thing and the cars are a side-show)
3. Help me... was tyco in this size category from the start? Rokar? LifeLike?


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## christos_s (Jan 16, 2008)

*MicroScalextric scale?*

and how about these britts? what scale are these? One I had seen real life looked even larger than 1/64 AFX/Tyco scale?
But not sure, please contribute


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## christos_s (Jan 16, 2008)

*Modern retro- tjet reproduction HO cars*

It annoys me when modern repro HO slotcars dont specify the size. I always wait to see what will I rest on the track after I pop the box open..
Especially annoying is professional such work by manufacturers such as JL/AW. I believe that those made for the repro pancake/tjet chassis should be true to THAT scale. (and those for the MagnaTraction repro chassis, true the larger scale) Not So! The last example was my experience with my latest aquisitions:
-the white gold chaparral was an Aurora-MM copy ok in scale with rest of the tjets
-the Studebaker GoldHawk, the 55Chevy, the Studebaker funny-car out of scale bumers
I wish they would write the modeling scale among the characteristics

The same is true for diecast, and worse there actually, you can never know if a PlayinMantis JL car will look right among others

And there are all the resin casters out there, cant blame them-us as much , you start with what you got... Most I can ask comrades , after so much work, pop-out the ruler and establish the scale, wont take long...


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## christos_s (Jan 16, 2008)

*Customized American Line cars*

Hand painted and added to "tjets and cousins" collection


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## christos_s (Jan 16, 2008)

*More of Tjets and Cousins*

Or should I say true-breeds and muts...  

Foto #1 out of the 3 cars on the right is my ORIGINAL 1969...done about a thousand hours or more Tuff-Ones Lola, yes with the same engine ooooooooo-so-smooth (just silicones, all else true 1969)
Next to it is a Willy's by MM of today, because I used to have that as a kid... and my young daughter thought was pretty, and the Lime Mustang my older daughter chose. The first 2 cars after almost 30 years which I bought in 1999

Foto #2 No I didnt have the GTO slotcar back in '69 but my father drove the real thing in silver when we lived in Washington DC before moving back to Greece. So I bought that too in 1999 from MM. The silver Vette was the first custom I ever did , from a JL/Playing Mantis pull back I bought from the net and carved away carefully to fit over the pancake NOS.


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## sethndaddy (Dec 4, 2004)

go to a train hobbystore and check out THEIR 1/87th cars for platform scenery, you'll see their alot smaller.
I always heard that tjets were basically 1/76 and afx/tyco/pretty much every thing else, was around 1/64. 
Depending on wheel wells and design limitations, cars will always be a fraction off.

no biggie..........still fun..........one of the best races we ever had was a blue tough ones camaro vs. a us1 rig.........


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## [email protected] (Jan 25, 2007)

My landscaped track is a mix of scales 1/87, 1/64, 1/75. My pit cars are 1/64 and 1/75, my service vehicles are 1/87, my pit crews are 1//64 the spectators 1/87 and 1/100, Grandstands and buildings are 1/64 and 1/87. If you place things carefully you can get away with it. I bought the Big Dog - Cheetah coupe resin pop. It is gigantic!! Much larger than any other car. Totally out of scale. I had to put it all alone in the victory circle and it looks fine there. If only there was more HO stuff in correct scale. But hey...... we do what we can. mj


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## Slott V (Feb 3, 2005)

Interesting. But I do believe it was the TycoPro cars introdced in 1970 that bumped the scale to 1/64 before Aurora.  

T-Jet and Vibes were originally designed as accessories to HO Trains, so they are 1/87 scale. Once slot cars became their own entity, the cars were eventually scaled up to 1/64 to provide a better platform for speed and handling, but are still called HO.


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## Dslot (Sep 2, 2007)

christos_s said:


> Starting with some older cars like the Aurora vibrators ... scale was close to HO=1/87
> examples:
> 1.the Mercedes and Jaguar Aurora Vibrators ...


It's a bit of a myth that the early Auroras were, or approached, 1:87. In fact, the chassis was developed by Playcraft of Britain to allow the bodies to approximate OO scale (1:76). My Aurora Jaguar XK-150 measures 2.37" long.That scales out to about 1:75. The Mercedes calipers out at 2.285" making it about 1:77. The Galaxie was a bit closer, 2.63", about 1:80. As someone said, look at them next to accurate HO static models, and the difference is apparent. The HO cars look VERY small.



> I believe that those made for the repro pancake/tjet chassis should be true to THAT scale. (and those for the MagnaTraction repro chassis, true the larger scale)...


 It's a nice fantasy, Christos, but I'm afraid you're setting yourself up for a lifetime of frustration. There is no "scale" for each generation of cars. Just look at a T-jet Cobra next to a T-jet Galaxie. All the bodies, from VW Bug to big Ford sedan have to be made to fit on a chassis with the same wheelbase (adjustable by only a scale foot or so). Therefore, the scale _must_ vary with the particular car. Sorry. In fact, the scale often must vary _within_ a particular car, since the length to width to height proportion is often fiddled with to make it fit the standard chassis. Length, width, height - each to a different scale on the same body. 

I suggest you just accept that we're playing with toys, not modeling the racing world to scale. Do less critical examination and more racing. Once you pull the trigger, you won't be noticing that your opponents' cars are to different scales.  

Cheers,
-- D


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

*Perspectives in scale*

Agreed D-slot. 

The scale is whatever it took to get the body wrapped around a chassis in the early days. Ball parked between 1/70 to 1/80. Most assuredly liberties were taken. Some dimensions just had to be adjusted to get things to work.

Have a look at Aurora's Bug if you need reminding ... freak:

IMHO it's this artistry that made them endearing. Gulp... being old enough...I unfortunately was there. It was never about scale modeling or adherance to a ratio or number. What it was, was kids racing 'lil cars and having fun. I wasnt Joe Slide Rule! I was Mario Andretti or AJ Foyt. Blowing your doors off was the highlight of a Saturday well spent at the hobby store track or the living room floor. :thumbsup: 

Sure we knew AFX and Tyco cars became bigger... Again scale took a beating, this time for performance... but did we care? Heck no! They were eight hundred times faster, had better road manners and by comparison werent a whole more costwise. A no brainer to adolescent slot heads. If some kid came up and said, "Well ya know guys, THAT car isnt true to scale." We'd have kicked him right in the .... 

Play cars, race yer buddies...blame everything else on the engineers! They knew it didnt matter as long as it fried the tires and looked cool doin it. I dunno 'bout the rest of y'all, but they had me figured out...and I hemmoraged
my allowance for years.


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

I agree with DSlot too. The only way a true 1:87 car could be built is if the motor and chassis could be made significantly smaller than the regular TJet chassis and had considerably more wheelbase options. The HO slot car hobby has never been a modelers scale. Heck, the stock track you get out of the box is little wider than most people's driveway, which is way out of proportion to most any real race track. On the other hand, HO is very affordable and a "fun scale" where you won't cringe every time your car whacks the guard rail. It is what it is and wishing it were something else is not going to make it that way.


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## Dslot (Sep 2, 2007)

*Faller vs Aurora Ferrari*



christos_s said:


> Help me is the Aurora MM Ferrari GTO larger?


 Yes. Here's a comparison review of the Faller and Tjet Ferraris.
-- D


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## videojimmy (Jan 12, 2006)

Marchon's had to be 1/64, if not bigger


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## tjd241 (Jan 25, 2004)

*hmmm....*



Bill Hall said:


> I was Mario Andretti or AJ Foyt. Blowing your doors off was the highlight of a Saturday well spent at the hobby store track or the living room floor.


... I always figured you to be the goggle-eyed Ray Harroun or Howdy Wilcox kinda kid!!! :woohoo: 

nd


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## sethndaddy (Dec 4, 2004)

videojimmy said:


> Marchon's had to be 1/64, if not bigger


Marchon were tanks.


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## vaBcHRog (Feb 19, 2003)

Bill Hall said:


> Agreed D-slot.
> 
> The scale is whatever it took to get the body wrapped around a chassis in the early days. Ball parked between 1/70 to 1/80. Most assuredly liberties were taken. Some dimensions just had to be adjusted to get things to work.


Actually if you don't forget the slim-line they got up close to 1/50 scale and the big boat indy is almost 1/43rd scale in width but around 1/55th in length go figure. These are just MkI EB mesurements.

Roger Corrie


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## Dslot (Sep 2, 2007)

vaBcHRog said:


> Actually if you don't forget the slim-line they got up close to 1/50 scale and the big boat indy is almost 1/43rd scale in width but around 1/55th in length go figure. These are just MkI EB mesurements.


 And how 'bout the Thunderbikes and snowmobiles ... what? 1:40? 1:32? 
(This is starting to sound like that old Python routine : "We 'ad to live in a cardboard box, in the middle of the road...") 
-- D


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

*Lets play pin the "scale" on the donkey*



vaBcHRog said:


> Actually if you don't forget the slim-line they got up close to 1/50 scale and the big boat indy is almost 1/43rd scale in width but around 1/55th in length go figure. These are just MkI EB mesurements.
> 
> Roger Corrie


Ha ha Roger! Point given. My numbers were a horse shoe and handgrenade generalization. Thus keeping in context with morphing scale issue within individual bodies....but how do you explain the "Great Gazoo" punkin' head drivers?  My head is as big as a motor. LOL! 

Technically, from my nit pickin' perspective, they didnt really get the formula car bodies wrapped around the chassis. The bodies covered the motor housing and gear rack. Gunwales were still well outboard with the oarlocks exposed...so I have to deduct a point from the total score!

Granted the cool "pickem up truck" worked very nicely, but then again the scale went back up a notch er three.  Really a cryin' shame they didnt explore more builds on the skinny platform when you consider all the cool things modelers are producing on the slimmy nowadays.

I'm generally not one to re-invent the wheel. For some reason I'm envisioning a more versatile skinny platform with inline drive. Toss out all the monkey motion pancake friction points and go with standard ring and pinion. Maybe one extra gear like an Atlas set up for a little more leg. N scale locomotives beware! 

The culmination of my pipe dream would be some form of adjustable wheel base. A pair of rough faced wedges that could moved incrementally for height adjustment. Easily flipped around for forward or rearward incline or declination as well as inverted for maximum drop or height. An "omni" setup so to speak. The whole deal would be captured through via a center chassis slot and holes vertically through he wedges; thus allowing things to slide front to rear. No doubt I'll eventually cobble something together on a T-jet specimen from my Fleabay chamber of horrors chassis collection. I'm certain this mechanism is just sitting there in my brass scraps. I can see it in my mind ...just not in my pile...yet!


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## vaBcHRog (Feb 19, 2003)

The rumor mill has the new chassis from Racemasters as being the skinniest and lowest ever with a longer wheel base. Now its performance is suppose to be way up too. Now this will make a great F1 chassis and I'm hoping if you remove any traction magnets and replace them with weights and raise up the tires I will get a great vintage Indy or Grand Prix chassis might have to drop the power down some too. With a longer wheel base many of the existing diecast will become prime candidates for this Chassis. GTP new LeMans all kinds of cool stuff  And with the stuff Dash can do we could have an whole new generation of vintage Can AM

Roger Corrie


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