# Building a Super Stock and Modified



## hrnts69 (Apr 12, 2007)

Iam wanting to turn my extra Tyco 440X2 Pan Chassis into a Super Stock and Modified for the upcoming MHRA races.

Here are the rules: http://z4.invisionfree.com/MHRA/index.php?showtopic=58

How would i go about this this? Or should i just buy a BSRT or Wizzard already built?

Thanks
Blake


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## GoodwrenchIntim (Feb 22, 2005)

can you post the rules, have to be a member to see them


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## GoodwrenchIntim (Feb 22, 2005)

n/m i registered

Modified Car Class Rules

1.) In addition to the Super Stock rule above:
2.) Any Armature shall be legal with a minimum 3 ohm, measured from pole to pole.
3.) Any readily available Ceramic motor magnets and Polymer Traction magnet not above normal gauss readings.
4.) May use ball bearings for motor only

**Any other modifications not specified will not be allowed**


SuperStock Car Class Rules

1.) Cars eligible to compete include the Wizzard P1-2-3 Scorpion and Storm, Slottech Panther, Thundercat, BSRT G3 & G3R, Tyco 440X2 and DecosmoT+
2.) The motor and traction magnets shall be stock and made of ceramic magnet material and must be readily available.
3.) Armatures shall be stock or stock replacement, narrow gap and be a minimum of 5.8 ohms. Armatures may be epoxied, balanced and have the commutators trued.
4.)All electrical system parts shall be stock or stock replacement.
5.) The chassis shall be stock and cannot be modified in anyway except:

a. Add body mounts
b. The chassis may be drilled to retain the rear axle.
c. Reinforce and/or replace the pickup shoe tabs
d. Add Adjustable brush tension

6.) The axles, gears, gear spacers, guide pin,motor bushings (not ball bearings), tires, and wheels shall be stock or stock replacement. Gears can be lightened and axle spacers may be used to aid with gear mesh. All parts must be readily available.
7.) Any readily available rear tires are permitted.
8.) Vacuum formed bodies must be used provided they meet all general rules.
9.) The guide pin maybe glued in place.
10.) Glues and adhesives are not allowed on the chassis or bulkheads except for attaching body mounts.
11.) Any readily available front bumper may be used.

**Any other modifications not specified will not be allowed**


If it does not say you can do it, you CAN'T!!!


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## GoodwrenchIntim (Feb 22, 2005)

if you have the money a slottech thundercat 1 or 2(he has prebuilts) would be your best bet, to build your tyco, contact slottech.com an get the parts to build your car


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## mking (Apr 25, 2000)

*G3R vs Slottech*

Hi

I race BSRT stuff here in the PNW. Ive never seen G3, Wiz and Slot techs run together, but ive heard the G3 platform does ok at HOPRA. if you need help with a G3 SS or modified let me know.


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## gear buster (Dec 1, 2005)

I run alot of wizzard items when I raced and had my own slot shop. Could help on the wizzard side of things if needed. I still have some parts and a few built cars sitting around..


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## hrnts69 (Apr 12, 2007)

I just bought a BSRT G3 from Gene. Anybody have any setup tips for this car? Ill be racing it on a MaxxTrax.


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

Getting the right setup on this class of car is all about have the right parts in your box to be prepared to make the adjustments you need once you understand what the track has to offer and what kind of challenges it presents. There is no "one size fits all" setup, you need to be prepared to get the setup dialed in for the specific race and track conditions, the car's abilities, and your driving abilities. Experience and familiarity with different tracks are great assets but take time to develop. When you're starting out the best bet is to come in with an expectation that you have a lot to learn, that it will take some investment in your time and experience, tons of practice, some money to acquire parts, etc., but armed with that willingness to learn and pay your dues you'll find your fellow racers will be more than happy to help bring you along. 

Gene should be able to help you out and identify a couple or few more front and rear end setups for your G3 that will allow you to be prepared to make the adjustments needed to adapt your car to the track conditions and your driving comfort. Once you get to the track, don't be afraid to seek out help from racers who have more experience with the G platform.


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## riggenracer (Jul 3, 2008)

Given the rules, go with a G3, Wizzard, or Slottech platform. The 440 will problably not get you where you want to be if you have to run against one of the three majors.


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## martybauer31 (Jan 27, 2004)

hrnts69 said:


> I just bought a BSRT G3 from Gene. Anybody have any setup tips for this car? Ill be racing it on a MaxxTrax.


For the G3, the timing, springs, and tire heights are very important....

Play with the timing of the endbell to see what works best for you (advanced, neutral, or retarded, advanced is drivers side down).

If it feels like you have a ton of speed but are coming out of the slot a lot, try going with less spring, and vice versa.

Tire height is also a big one for both front and rear. On Mike Kings Maxx I have seen people run at .430 in the rear and .338 in front and even lower some times. If it sounds like to are dragging, go up .002 and try again, you can also feel how hot the arm is to see if you are too low or not. If you are, you can run a few laps and that arm will be way too hot to the touch. I also find that asking the track owner what they are running is helpful, that is if you are racing in a good group and they want to help you. If they mislead you, you'll know pretty quick and you'll want to find a new group to play with.


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## mking (Apr 25, 2000)

*G3/MaxTrax*

Hi

I have an older maxtrax (circa 2000), the one marty was talking about. for a G3 platform, 340 fronts and 434 or 436 rears (white ASTs) is a good starting point. then keep dropping the rear tires till you get too much heat.

for your modified car, you might consider BSRTs new 905EX chassis. its only $45 and its a rocket. it has "polymer" traction magnets (ground up neo magents in a polymer matrix), ceramic motor magnets, and a 3 ohm arm. the arms are not balanced or tied off, so you might want to buy a spare arm (repeated wall shots could cause a wire to break of the comm). you can also buy a 37 spinner arm, but those are $35. i used the 905EX car with an independent front as a practice car for the polymer classs before the 2008 G3 championships. my practice 905EX cars were turning laps almost as fast as my polymer car. so for a modified class, a 905EX with an indepdent front end might work really well. they are really fast and really easy to drive. 

when is the race your getting ready for? i wouldnt mind tweaking a car for you if there is enough time. 

mike


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## blubyu (May 4, 2008)

Don't forget a FANCY CONTROLLER too!


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## hrnts69 (Apr 12, 2007)

mking- What is the differnce between the 905EX chassis and your "racing" chassis? Is the 905EX a RTR chassis less body? You also have a PM

What are some spare parts/parts that i should have to change according to the track, that i should be looking at getting for my G3? (size of tires, etc.) Also, whats the differnce between a G3 and G3R? Which one is more suited for me MaxxTrax?


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

> What are some spare parts/parts that i should have to change according to the track


Front and rear tires, crown gears, and possibly pinions and as Marty point out, pickup shoe springs for the G. The most common crown gears to have on hand for SS are 21, 22, and 23. For Mod, 24, and 25. Pinions, 7 and 8 tooth. If I had to pick the most common for SS and could only buy one set I'd go for a 7 tooth pinion and 23 tooth crown (7/23). My next SS setup, if I could buy a second, would be a 7/22, followed by 7/21. I usually setup my rear ends with multiple spacers so I can run either a 7 tooth or 8 tooth pinion. This would give you six gearing combinations, which is a pretty good selection. You could then mount the size tire you want, or if you have cash aplenty, have a set of each rear end setup for each tire size. Running one class or cars with silicone sponge tires can get real expensive real quick. 

Like I said, make some friends at the track and get some tips on middle of the road setups and build up your inventory of additional parts only as you gain more understanding of how the different parts affect your cars performance and driveability.


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## martybauer31 (Jan 27, 2004)

You'll find yourself purchasing multiple sizes of tires for front and back as even at the same track, things will change.

At the G3 Nats this year, I set up my SS on Saturday with .340 fronts and a .440 rear. Sunday was the race and I ended up with .338 in the front and .332 in the rear. Why the huge disparity? The weather..... it was about a 10 degree difference between the 2 days and enough to make the rails change and force me to drop the rear end lower.

The good thing is that once you have yourself a few sets of rear ends, you won't need to keep buying parts, you can just swap them out as needed.

I personally like the 7/22 combo with my super stock, so like AFXToo, you'll find out what you like and are comfortable driving pretty quick.


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## mking (Apr 25, 2000)

yes, the 905EX is a RTR chassis less body. if your going to use lexan bodies you will need body posts ($8). if your racing hard bodies you will need a body clip, unless your using an indy body (same as with a Super G+)

the G3 and the G3R differ in the slot for the traction magnets. the G3R is newer, and works with the newer magnets, which have a flange that goes in the slot in the G3R chassis. so using the old magnets in a G3R chassis, or the new magnets in a G3 chassis slot, doesnt work all that great. 

most new cars sold by Scale Auto use the G3R chassis. They still have G3 chassis left for guys needing a new chassis for old magnets. 

for my practice 905EX cars, the difference between the practice car and the race car was that the race car had polymer motor magnets and ball bearings in place of the stock brass bushings. i used a rear beedle bushing in place of the stock bushing in the practice cars, but not ball bearings. the ball bearings are $11 each (need 2, one in the end bell and one in back), and would be a great addition to the 905EX. 

i have a question about the rules you posted, and it would be great if you could clarify the axle rule. alot of racers make their own axles out of drill blanks. some places sell drill blank rear axles (Scale Auto sells a BSRT drill blank rear axle in steel). 

i strongly suggest using a titanium rear axle in your superstock. titanium is not magnetic so is not attracted to the traction magnets, and the titanium rear axle will really reduce friction caused by a steel axle being attracted to the traction magnets. you can buy titanium axles from Scale Auto for $10 each. you can also buy titanium rod in 0059 size and cut and polish your own axles for alot less. if the rules allow you to use a titanium axle made from bar stock you can use the $avings to buy more tires. i bought alot of titanium bar stock to use in upgrading a bunch of super G+ cars, so if you can use those axles i can hook you up. if not, its still worth the $10 per axle, becasue your lap times WILL drop. as suggested above, its handy to have several rear ends you can change out to see what tire height/crown gear combination you like best. for me, i like 7/22, and while i have rear ends using 23 and 24 tooth crowns they seem to never get used.


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## hrnts69 (Apr 12, 2007)

WOW! Thanks for all the info!!!

How do you guys know when to go with shorter tires or bigger tires based on the temp? Is there like a ultimate setup book i can read?


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## GoodwrenchIntim (Feb 22, 2005)

If the motor feels very hot after a few laps, go bigger tires in the rear, If its loose an spins easy, smaller tires in the rear


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## hrnts69 (Apr 12, 2007)

So where do room temp come into play? I guess if the room temp is cooler you could do with shorter tires. If it room temp is hotter, go with bigger tires?

What other factors should i look at?


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## blubyu (May 4, 2008)

What about marking the underside of the chassis with a Sharpie marker to see how hard your hitting the rails? Remember most tracks will have high & low rails,but this should get you close faster.


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## blubyu (May 4, 2008)

If your starting off $10 an axle is a bit pricey when you can buy 10 Tyco axles for under $10 dollars and have more axles sets.


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## martybauer31 (Jan 27, 2004)

When it's warmer the metal in the rails expands slightly causing you to need taller wheels, and when it gets colder the metal shrinks enabling you to drop it down a bit more. Blubyu's suggestion of marking the underside with a sharpie is a good one, if you mark on the traction mags in the rear it will tell you quite a bit. Also, he is right about the $10 titanium axles, start cheap until you figure out how to tune your cars and race a little better, then when you have figured some things out and you a re sure you are enjoying the hobby, upgrade a bit if you want. Some of the more expensive tweaks work, some don't help much at all, but building a STRAIGHT rear end is one of the most important things on your car.

As far as there being an ultimate setup book.... it's just called trial and error and time on the track. And the most important step is having fun.


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## blubyu (May 4, 2008)

martybauer31 is right on, get on the TRACK and practice using trial and error. Once you hit on your setup practice,practice and find areas on the track you can push or not,also go on all the lanes as they will all be different. Pay attention to gear mesh as that can cause heat you might think is from running to low.


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