# Mattel has rights to 1966 tv Batmobile?



## BatToys (Feb 4, 2002)

Is it true Mattel will be making the 1966 tv Batmobile?

http://p218.ezboard.com/f1966batvehiclesfrm9.showMessage?topicID=294.topic


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## Zorro (Jun 22, 1999)

I've got the two different Hot Wheels 1/18 '89 movie Batmobiles and they're gorgeous so I'd love to see the '66 Barris done with the same quality but ... I'll believe it when I see it.


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## JGG1701 (Nov 9, 2004)

www.filmscoremonthly.com/store/audio/batman4.ram :thumbsup:


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## falcondesigns (Oct 30, 2002)

George Barris owns the Patent,yes the Patent for the 1966 TV Batmobile.That why we havent seen any of that product.If the differences have been worked out between Mattel and Barris,then we might indeed get to see a TV Batmobile!


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## Gray-headed Art (Aug 16, 2002)

falcondesigns said:


> George Barris owns the Patent,yes the Patent for the 1966 TV Batmobile.That why we havent seen any of that product.If the differences have been worked out between Mattel and Barris,then we might indeed get to see a TV Batmobile!


Not quite that simple:

George Barris owns the rights to the actual TV Batmobile car, along with the original steel-bodied car itself (the car originated as the Lincoln Futura Dream Car in 1955), but DC Comics owns "Batman", DC Comics is owned by Time-Warner--and the TV Show is owned by 20th Century Fox. 

Now, George Barris is all in favor of licensing the designs of the TV Batmobile, and supposedly so is 20th Century Fox. However, DC Comics is the "fly in the ointment" here--their stated position as been for years now, that the TV show (campy as it is) doesn't represent the style and concepts of Batman as they want those to be--so no dice, and for a TV Batmobile to happen, DC Comics has to come on board (perhaps some corporate artistic jealousy as well?)

Art


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## DinoMike (Jan 1, 1970)

OK, if that's the case.... why was PL able to issue kits of the Batboat & Batcycle from the film based on the same TV show?



Gray-headed Art said:


> Not quite that simple:
> 
> George Barris owns the rights to the actual TV Batmobile car, along with the original steel-bodied car itself (the car originated as the Lincoln Futura Dream Car in 1955), but DC Comics owns "Batman", DC Comics is owned by Time-Warner--and the TV Show is owned by 20th Century Fox.
> 
> ...


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## beck (Oct 22, 2003)

good question . did Barris build those ? 
the TV series car would be a win win win for all parties as that sucker would sell like the proverbial hotcakes . 
hb


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## Zorro (Jun 22, 1999)

DinoMike said:


> OK, if that's the case.... why was PL able to issue kits of the Batboat & Batcycle from the film based on the same TV show?


That is a question that's never been answered by PL, and it's certainly been brought up a few times on these boards. I think _part_ of the equation is that the Batboat and Batcycle were contracted out by Barris and were not "copyrighted" (or patented) by the builders (or if they _were_, those legal protections have long since lapsed). What _is_ true is that the PL re-issues of the Aurora Batboat and Batcycle are the _only_ example I can think of of any kind of "official" memorabilia related to the TV show that has been produced in many years. How PL was able to pull that off when no one else has managed to do so is fascinating in itself. I'd love to know the story.


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## irishtrek (Sep 17, 2005)

Ok, so who was it that did the Batmobile kit back in the 60s?


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## Zorro (Jun 22, 1999)

irishtrek said:


> Ok, so who was it that did the Batmobile kit back in the 60s?


Aurora produced the TV Batmobile. PL was not able to re-issue that kit for some combination of the reasons discussed above. Neither has any other entity legally been able to produce a model kit, die-cast, statue, ornament, etc. based on that car for roughly two decades now. That's the big issue we're discussing here. The show is a friggin' goldmine that could be licensed out the wazoo to babyboomers and Bat-fans but _nada! _Even the TV series _itself_ isn't available on DVD.


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

Art was absolutely correct with his summary of the situation. Warner Bros./DC is the holdout on this. Barris wants the diecasts and models as much as we do. He would be the _last_ person to withhold the rights to the most famous car in the world from being marketed as a collectible. He has vented his frustration on this any number of times.


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## irishtrek (Sep 17, 2005)

You all remember that little 6 page booklet that came with TOS PL Enterprise?
Well it shows TWO Batmobiles from the 60s tv show, a 1/24 dicast and a plastic one. Granted they are not entirly accurate in detail. So at one point in time PL did have the license for the Batmobile.


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

PL had the license for the comic book versions of the batmobile. It never had the rights for the 60's TV Batmobile.

If Mattel has indeed somehow managed to negotiate the rights with DC/Warner to market diecast versions of the TV Batmobile, that would be most welcome news, indeed. If true, this could also possibly set a precedent for negotiating the rights for the TV show to finally be released on DVD.


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## irishtrek (Sep 17, 2005)

Well then, that would explain why those 2 Batmobiles are not accurate, at least on the front end anyway.


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## A Taylor (Jan 1, 1970)

Barris had nothing to do with either the Batcycle (which was essentially built by a fan of the show and offered for use in the film), the boat, or the helicopter.
Sure, he's all for licensing the 66 Car - if you'd like to pony up about a 30% take of gross profits for him! That's not a number I know for sure, just an estimation on my part. 
Anyone who'd take credit for cars he had no part in creating whatsoever really can't be expected to have a realistic sense of the worth of his actual work.
Can he?


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## Dave Metzner (Jan 1, 1970)

When I see a licensed Barris Batmobile produced by a major manufacturer with my own eyes, I'll believe it.

Until then I'll treat this as another unfounded rumor.

If anybody can do it I suppose Mattel is most capable, after all they can throw more money at it than anyone else in the business.
Maybe they manged to get all the parties to the bargaining table and to agree and paid everybody whatever it takes!

I somehow doubt it but then, I've been wrong before. 

Dave


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## Zorro (Jun 22, 1999)

Dave Metzner said:


> When I see a licensed Barris Batmobile produced by a major manufacturer with my own eyes, I'll believe it.
> 
> Until then I'll treat this as another unfounded rumor.
> 
> ...


Dave - any clues on how you guys were able to produce the Batcycle and Batboat? I mean, I understand that the Barris Batmobile is the item _most_ people want _most_ - but I have a hard time believing that other memorobilia connected to the show wouldn't be quite popular too - "McFarlane" West, Ward, Gorshin, and Newmar action figures, die-cast Batboats, Batcycles, and Batcoptors, Halloween costumes, Bat-phones - you _name_ it, these are just examples. Obviously there's some hendrence to the licensing from that show that has little to do with Barris or it would have been done already. How were you guys able to pull off the only licensed 66' Bat-memorobilia in the last 20 years?


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## Dave Hussey (Nov 20, 1998)

As a rule, it is quite rare for a Dave to be wrong. 

But in this case, I hope ya are! 

Huzz


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## PhilipMarlowe (Jan 23, 2004)

I remember years ago there was a announcement with pictures in Modeler's Resource for a die cast TV version Batmobile from either Danbury or Franklin mint, it looked pretty spectacular in the pictures so I called about ordering one, and then when I called again 6 months later they told me it was "being changed" for legal reasons, I could get a redesigned one based on the comic book, or my money back. I took the money back.

I really wanted that TV batmobile!


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## Guest (Jul 5, 2006)

Just a thought or three on this issue.
Kinda reminds me of the old Aurora super spy car kit, yep it was an Aston Martin and yep it had all the gadgets but from the one i built years ago, no decals and white wall tyres.

Not a Bond referance in sight in any way shape or form. Kit produced anyways, done deal and unless someone knows better, i have not heard of any problem associated with that kit.

Therefore could it not be that while Mr Barris holds the goodies on the design of the car, what about the Bat symbol? I reckon there are more than a few who could produce unlicensed copies(and probably have) just ommit the said symbol and any referance to the show/comic/cartoon/caped crusader and/or sidekick.
Barris could maybe have them roasted in the legal sense but that's about all i think.

No symbol with the model and no referance made so no toes stepped on in that area.

Reminds me of a full size kit car mob in this country that produce one for a Lamborghini Countach.
They send the kit with some awful spoiler to go on the front that has nothing to do with the car kit and when the customer calls to inform the company, they say just send it back and they will send the correct part.
Said part being a stack of badges and markings made by a third party correct to a proper Countach.

A technicality legally speaking but it's worked for a fair number of years so far.

'nuff babble from me


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## BatToys (Feb 4, 2002)

*YES! Batmobile confirmed*



Yes! Just confirmed from a high up friend that Mattel paid a hefty fee for exclusive rights to the 1966 tv Batmobile.

I wonder how long it will take them to announce it and show a prototype?


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## Zorro (Jun 22, 1999)

BatToys said:


> I wonder how long it will take them to announce it and show a prototype?


Why don't you ask your high up friend?


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## Zorro (Jun 22, 1999)

Raytheon said:


> Just a thought or three on this issue.
> Kinda reminds me of the old Aurora super spy car kit, yep it was an Aston Martin and yep it had all the gadgets but from the one i built years ago, no decals and white wall tyres.
> 
> Not a Bond referance in sight in any way shape or form. Kit produced anyways, done deal and unless someone knows better, i have not heard of any problem associated with that kit.
> ...


There are a gazillion "unlicensed" 66' Batmobile kits out there and have been for years.


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## Zorro (Jun 22, 1999)

PhilipMarlowe said:


> I remember years ago there was a announcement with pictures in Modeler's Resource for a die cast TV version Batmobile from either Danbury or Franklin mint, it looked pretty spectacular in the pictures so I called about ordering one, and then when I called again 6 months later they told me it was "being changed" for legal reasons, I could get a redesigned one based on the comic book, or my money back. I took the money back.
> 
> I really wanted that TV batmobile!


It was Danbury. They actually sent out pre-order flyers with pics of the TV Batmobile and a description of all the special features that would be included. I had one on pre-order for over a year before it became fully evident that it just wasn't going to happen. I'd love to know the details to _that_ story too.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Zorro said:


> It was Danbury. They actually sent out pre-order flyers with pics of the TV Batmobile and a description of all the special features that would be included. I had one on pre-order for over a year before it became fully evident that it just wasn't going to happen. I'd love to know the details to _that_ story too.


 And when they balked, and changed it to the "1960s comic book Batmobile," it looked exactly like the Polar Lights $30 die cast kit and $15 plastic kit - except they wanted $300.


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## PhilipMarlowe (Jan 23, 2004)

Zorro said:


> It was Danbury. They actually sent out pre-order flyers with pics of the TV Batmobile and a description of all the special features that would be included. I had one on pre-order for over a year before it became fully evident that it just wasn't going to happen. I'd love to know the details to _that_ story too.


I got the same flyer, it originally looked like one _really_ cool batmobile!


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## Dave Metzner (Jan 1, 1970)

The Polar Lights kits were all produced under license from DC-Warner Those kits included the Batboat, Batplane and Bat cycle.
All the Batmobiles we did were Comic book cars - all were approved by DC-Warner - all were reasonably accurate representations of Comic Book cars.

We did not have license for any Movie vehicles.

I really don't know how it is that the Bat Boat and Bat cycle were licensed except that those vehicles may also have appeared in the Comic Books!


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## iamweasel (Aug 14, 2000)

Warner/DC own the rights to the Batboat and the Batcycle, they have no others claiming any rights.
Barris owns the copyright for the Batmobile but not the Bat symbols or the name, which Warners/DC owns. 
Now if they had bought the Batmobile from Barris instead of renting it for the show this whole issue would be mute.


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## Zorro (Jun 22, 1999)

Or moot. I still don't understand why there isn't _other_ licensed '66 Bat-memorabilia out there. I mean, if McFarlane can do spot-on likenesses of Jimi Hendrix and Janis Joplin and Sideshow can do detailed figures from "The Outer Limits" and "Get Smart" then surely _somebody_ could make money with accurate figures of West, Ward, Romero, Newmar, et al in all their Bat-glory. Those figures would outsell the previously mentioned subjects 50 to 1. There's still some mystery here as to why _nothing_ is being marketed from one of the most popular television series - and biggest pop culture phenomenons - of the 1960s.


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## MadCap Romanian (Oct 29, 2005)

Changing the topic just a bit.....

What about the Corgi diecast bat toys? Anyone know what happened there?

I own every one of the 1/25 scale Batmobile kits from the first movies as well as the 3 PL plastic kits. I'd love to see the Barris built one in 1/25 also, but for now, I'll just have to build it the same way Barris did, using a (Revell) Lincoln Futura and an (AMT) Edsel steering wheel.


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## iamweasel (Aug 14, 2000)

Zorro said:


> Or moot.


Uh, that's what I typed but the evil HobbyTalk software demon changed it....yeah that's the ticket.
I read something a long while back that said the estate of William Dozier owned a piece of the show, it's most likely a lot of fingers in the pie and everyone wants the biggest piece. 
The latest Warner's DVD chat said the DVD hold up was between Fox and DC.
It has to be something along those lines because in this culture of corporate greed there is no way the haven't been drooling on this one. DC isn't worried that the 66 Batman doesn't fit with their newer version, they have figures and dolls etc. etc. of Batman and Robin from the 60's comics which are pretty much copies of the show.
One thing about the Batmobile is, is that if you have a copy of it and you don't run around and take it to shows as the Batmobile and don't have the Bats on it Warner's doesn't tag any one for it, put the Bats on and call it the Batmobile and try to make money from it and it's gone. Now try to own a copy of Keatons batmobile and Warners can take it period....because Warners owns the copyright to that car.
Trey Parker drives a copy of the 66 and we all saw the 66 in "Rock Star". So a none Bat-mobile is possible evidently....but then again lawyers can make a someones trip to the bathroom into a 500 page legal document that proves you killed Abraham Lincoln.


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## BatToys (Feb 4, 2002)

My friend is involved in licensing but another in the industry said normally six months from contract to toy stores.


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## Guest (Jul 6, 2006)

Zorro said:


> There are a gazillion "unlicensed" 66' Batmobile kits out there and have been for years.


I have no doubt you are correct, however only a couple of percent of the gazillion unlicensed kits you mention have been seen in this wee modeling backwater cunningly diguised as the United Kingdom.

That's down to most big importers sadly who only seem to want to get them in if it's a near 100% commercial seller for them but that's another tale.

From my own personal likes, it's the '66 tv Batmobile or the '89 movie version.
I wouldn't mind a decent sized kit of one/other/both and by decent for my own tastes, that usually around 1/16th or bigger, preferably bigger though i have to draw the line at 1/6  

I can dream can't i ?


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

From what I've read about copyright law from U.S. government sources, I don't understand how Barris was able to get the copyright on the design variations created for the TV Batmobile. 

Generally, when work is contracted, especially, I would think, on a licensed property, the owner of the copyright is he who had the work contracted out, NOT the contractor himself. Therefore, if I commissioned a painting from an artist, I'd own the rights lock, stock, and barrel and could reproduce the image or do anything else I wanted with it. Even if I were to sell the original painting, I'd still have the rights to the image.

The only way this could have been overcome is that the owner(s) of the property in writing the contract included specific language that would have allowed Barris to do this. If the language is not there in that contract, I would think the property owner(s) could have sued him to relinquish the rights. He was, after all, just the craftsman (though he or his design team did design the "batty" alterations to the Futura). In saying that, I'm in no way attempting to denigrate his great work nor the other work that he's done.


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## Capt. Krik (May 26, 2001)

PerfesserCoffee said:


> From what I've read about copyright law from U.S. government sources, I don't understand how Barris was able to get the copyright on the design variations created for the TV Batmobile.
> 
> Generally, when work is contracted, especially, I would think, on a licensed property, the owner of the copyright is he who had the work contracted out, NOT the contractor himself. Therefore, if I commissioned a painting from an artist, I'd own the rights lock, stock, and barrel and could reproduce the image or do anything else I wanted with it. Even if I were to sell the original painting, I'd still have the rights to the image.
> 
> The only way this could have been overcome is that the owner(s) of the property in writing the contract included specific language that would have allowed Barris to do this. If the language is not there in that contract, I would think the property owner(s) could have sued him to relinquish the rights. He was, after all, just the craftsman in the arrangement. In saying that, I'm in no way attempting to denigrate his great work nor the other (much of it original) work that he's done.



I believe the way Barris got around this is he never sold the Batmobile to the production company. They leased the car from him. He still owned all rights to the car. Since 20th Century Fox or William Dozier never actually bought the car outright they had no ownership and thus could not patent the design or the vehicle itself.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Capt. Krik said:


> I believe the way Barris got around this is he never sold the Batmobile to the production company. They leased the car from him.


That doesn't really come into play. It's in the contract:

http://www.1966batmobile.com/contract.htm

Specifically the following clauses:



> 7. Any and all right, title and interest in and to the design of Batmobile I resulting from the application of the required Batmobile features in and to Owner's proto-type Lincoln chassis, save and except the name "Batmobile" and the Batmobile features set forth in Article 10 hereof and in the drawings and exhibits attached hereto, and of the completed Batmobile I provided for in Article 2 hereof, shall forever be vested in and owned jointly by Owner and Producer, subject only to any and all right, title and interest of National Periodical Publications, Inc. (herein referred to as "National Periodical") in and to said Batmobile features in said design.
> 
> 8. Subject to the approval first had and obtained in writing from National Periodical, Producer shall have the right to acquire and own all or any part of the merchandising rights in and to Batmobile I and II. Merchandising rights are defined herein as the right to license the use of the design of Batmobile I and II in connection with such items as clothing, toys, games, jewelry and replicas thereof.
> 
> ...


The reference to the luminescent paint is interesting:



> 15. Special luminescent paint to define Bat outline at night, the placement of which shall be mutually agreed upon between Owner and Producer prior to the completion of the Batmobile.


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## X15-A2 (Jan 21, 2004)

In the '60s the various studios knew next to nothing about post-production tie-in product marketing. There really wasn't such a thing back then except in the most limited and primitive forms. Certainly nothing like what we see today in terms of scale or quality. This is why most productions were not too sharp about solidifying the rights to the various products they created. Paramount never bothered to formally grab the rights to "Star Trek" TOS. All they copyrighted was the title and the character names. The ships, props and costumes were up-for-grabs to anyone who wanted to make and sell them (I know about this because a friend of mine who was manufacturing Communicators received a C&D from Paramount legal but he wasn't impressed by it. Instead he had his fathers lawyer look into it and he found the that Paramount didn't own the rights to it. He sent them a note back saying "show me your ownership title to these items and I will comply". They never responded.). No studio back then really thought that any large market would develope for these items, at least not one which would bring in worthwhile amounts of money. Besides, making toys was not the studios business so they really weren't all that interested anyway (that is why most tie-in products of the era were such garbage, because the studios didn't care). This is why Fox never really cleared up the ownership details for the Batmobile.

Of course Paramount has since tied up every loose string they can concerning "Star Trek" and Fox wishes that they had done so for "Batman" too. Now it is standard practice to have clear ownership of anything which might conceivably turn a profit.


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## VicenzaHS (Oct 14, 2005)

I hope to see the 66 Batmobile, and the Green Hornets Black Beauty in 1/18 scale diecast.


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## Geoff Boaz (Jan 1, 1970)

It's very true. The 1966 Batmobile rights have been secured by Mattel. They plan on doing many sizes, and getting the most out of the huge fees they paid.

This is being reported by many different types of web sites; batman, action figures, die cast, tv shows, etc.

Also, it's being reported that a 1st season Batman DVD may be finally green lighted. If this comes to fruition, then we may see the flood gates open up on 66 Batman merchandise.

Word also has it that we may see some 66 Batman car prototypes at one or more of the comic conventions this summer.

I know many of you are non-believers... (rightfully so, after many false starts and the Danbury f-up.) but just wait, and buckle those bat-belts! 

geoffdude


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## BatToys (Feb 4, 2002)

Geoff,

Do you know what scales? A Hot Wheels version? What would be the largest scale? Slot Cars too? 

I just hope they make the First Season Batmobile and get it accurate.


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## enterprise_fan (May 23, 2004)

I just hope they make the First Season Batmobile and get it accurate.

So say we all :thumbsup:


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

I'm drooling already. Oh, wait, I do that anyway. :freak:


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## john guard (Dec 31, 2001)

WAIT WAIT WAIT!!!!!!!!!!

i need facts! we have been hearing for years how the BM is coming to a store near you!
gimme a link that gives the facts!
like someone said before.....i wont believe it till i see it!!

just cause some guy "says so" aint the facts!
just cause "i know a guy who knows a guy" aint the facts!
just cause " i read it on a BB" aint facts!


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## Just Plain Al (Sep 7, 1999)

After waiting this long, I'm not sure I'll believe it _when_ I see it.


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## sbaxter (Jan 8, 2002)

john guard said:


> gimme a link that gives the facts!


Well, I did a little poking around and found this:

http://legionsofgotham.proboards70.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=news&thread=1152413186

As has been mentioned, if all of this is legit, it hasn't been announced officially yet. Supposedly it _will_ be so announced at ComicCon in San Diego, which runs July 19-23. So I guess we'll see.

Qapla'

SSB


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## beck (Oct 22, 2003)

does Mattel have a web site ? 
hb


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## sbaxter (Jan 8, 2002)

beck said:


> does Mattel have a web site ?
> hb


Ahem ...

http://www.mattel.com/

Never would have guessed, huh?

:tongue: 

Qapla'

SSB


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## beck (Oct 22, 2003)

okay went and looked . nothing on there about a GB , TV series bat car . 
the guy on the bulletin board link (a guy saying some guy named Danny supposedly an insider for Hot Wheels... ) says movie related , comic and animated series . 
so far no hard eveidence imo for a for sure release of our favorite Batmobile . 
i'm with the guys that say , believe it when ya see it . 
hb


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## Dave Metzner (Jan 1, 1970)

The Legion of Gotham thread talks about Movie Batmobiles, Comics Batmobiles and ANIMATED TV series Batmobiles - I read the whole thread twice and could find nothing that said that Mattel is doing a 1966 TV car!

I'll still believe that Mattel is doing the 1966 TV Car when I see their official announcement.

Dave


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## john guard (Dec 31, 2001)

anybody can say "i heard.." or " i read it on a BB..." or " my sources tell me..." on the internet, but until it's on Mattel's website, IT AINT GONNA HAPPEN!!

I will be in San Diego for the convention, if it is not officially announced there (i will go to the Mattel booth) that is the end of the subject.
"some Mattel rep told me.."
" he showed me a preview..."
" a guy who knows a rep at the convention..."
DONT CUT IT!


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## sbaxter (Jan 8, 2002)

Dave Metzner said:


> The Legion of Gotham thread talks about Movie Batmobiles, Comics Batmobiles and ANIMATED TV series Batmobiles - I read the whole thread twice and could find nothing that said that Mattel is doing a 1966 TV car!


It's in the introduction to the thread, near the top. It says "As already confirmed here on LoG, Hot Wheel is making some various Batmobiles, including the classic 1966 tv show Batmobile!"

I agree it is a rumor until they announce it -- I'd love to have a TV Batmobile, but it isn't a "grail kit" for me. I just pointed out where I'd found it discussed on other forums. I have no other experience with that site, so I have no clue how much weight to put behind that post. I note only that it was posted by the forum's owner, for what it's worth.

Hope it happens, but if it doesn't, I'll live.

Qapla'

SSB


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## sbaxter (Jan 8, 2002)

john guard said:


> I will be in San Diego for the convention, if it is not officially announced there (i will go to the Mattel booth) that is the end of the subject.


Well! Sorry we forgot to check with you for our marching orders! Sir yes sir! :tongue: 

Qapla'

SSB


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## john guard (Dec 31, 2001)

Ha!! Ha!! Ha!!


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## Geoff Boaz (Jan 1, 1970)

john guard said:


> anybody can say "i heard.." or " i read it on a BB..." or " my sources tell me..." on the internet, but until it's on Mattel's website, IT AINT GONNA HAPPEN!!
> 
> I will be in San Diego for the convention, if it is not officially announced there (i will go to the Mattel booth) that is the end of the subject.
> "some Mattel rep told me.."
> ...


 Yes it will/does... or whatever. It's confirmed enough for me. As someone who's been in this hobby (collecting, model building, etc.) for almost 40 years I know enough people, who are all very trust worthy and know their stuff, who have all relayed that the Mattel/66 Batmobile deal is true. The only reason no "official" Mattel press release has come down is that the comic con has been set for the big reveal.

Believe what you want, but after Mattel "officially" makes their statement that will make your above rant just a wasted bit of hot air (or key-strokes).

Geoff


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Geoff Boaz said:


> . . . It's confirmed enough for me. As someone who's been in this hobby (collecting, model building, etc.) for almost 40 years I know enough people, who are all very trust worthy and know their stuff, who have all relayed that the Mattel/66 Batmobile deal is true. The only reason no "official" Mattel press release has come down is that the comic con has been set for the big reveal.


Thanks for the info, Geoff! I feel better now. I am really excited about this. :thumbsup:


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## Geoff Boaz (Jan 1, 1970)

Dave Metzner said:


> The Legion of Gotham thread talks about Movie Batmobiles, Comics Batmobiles and ANIMATED TV series Batmobiles - I read the whole thread twice and could find nothing that said that Mattel is doing a 1966 TV car!
> 
> I'll still believe that Mattel is doing the 1966 TV Car when I see their official announcement.
> 
> Dave


 LOG has many, many Mattel connections, and one of the major Batman action figure managers (from Mattel) who frequents there was just recently put in charge of the Hot Wheel line. That same person has been quite vocal (since last year when he took it over) that he wanted to connect Batman, Superman, DC etc. to more Hot Wheel items.

This is what was posted on LOG's site:
*"Tuesday, July 04, 2006*

* Hot Wheels to make 1966 Batmobile! *

Hot Wheels revelead to LoG weeks ago during our live chat with them that they are indeed going to make the 1966 Batmobile in 2007.....and in various sizes! You heard it here first."
http://www.legionsofgotham.org/batmantoyz.html

LOG is very reputable, believe it.
---------------------------------------------------------
Here's another post from Lying in the Gutters:
"*NANANANANANANANANANANA* 









Mattel just bought exclusive rights to the 1966 TV Batmobile for a hefty fee. Expect them to get their money's worth this Christmas."
http://www.comicbookresources.com/columns/index.cgi?column=litg
-------------------------------------------
Here's another post by Tony Moe (long time batcar sage & guru)
"Long story short I spoke to a Rep at Mattel today and they will be releasing a 1/18 scale television show 1966 Batmobile in spring of 07'
It will be officially announced at comicon on July 22"
-------------------------------------
Another post by Eric Seltzer admin of web site on 66 batmobile:
" I spoke w/ someone who should know and they told me that Mattel does have the "Master License" for the TV Batmobile and have had it for a bit.
Sounds positive to me.








E
http://p218.ezboard.com/f1966batvehiclesfrm9
-------------------------------------
1stopdiecast.com newsletter states:
"The big rumor from M is that they have the license to produce the original
Batmobile from the TV series! I don't have to tell you how big this car
will be. Of course we will have it! I will update you as more info becomes
available. ( I hope they don't send a sniper team to get me now that I
told you this top secret info)."

These are tidbits are a few samplings of what I've found just this morning. I know you've personally had issues with this Lic. in the past Dave. But keep in mind Mattel is huge, they have an already established relationship with DC/Warner Bros., and NOTHING stays the same forever (roadblocks, etc.)

Somebody was able to get all the parties together, on this car, this time. Rest assured, '66 Bats is on her way.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

I hope there's a 1/18 die cast to sit next to my Mach 5 and Starsky Torino. Then I'd have the three coolest cars in the world.


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## Dave Metzner (Jan 1, 1970)

Geoff,
One fact of life in the Toy industry is that Mattel has the capacity to back a VERY LARGE truck up to a licensor's door and shovel money out until they get whatever they want. If ANYBODY in the world of toys has the cash available to get a TV Batmobile license done it's Mattel.

Apparently. they've decided that the TV Batmobile is well enough worth doing to go thru the cost and agravation of pulling a licensing agreement for that car together.

They have had the Batman Master Toy License for several years now and I understand that license covers everything Batman related that Warner Bros owns Comic book, Movies, Animated TV etc. etc. etc.

The ONLY significant Batmobile not covered by that Master License was the TV car, 

It looks like they got their lawyers to sign all the disputing parties to some sort of agreement and spread around enough cash to get the deal done.

I have no doubt that they'll sell big volumes of TV Batcars in every conceivable scale and at every possible price point.

We'll see what they announce at Comic Con.

Dave


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## Dave Hussey (Nov 20, 1998)

John - do you have a 1/18 scale Back to the Future Delorean by Sunstar? I picked up one on eBay for only $20 and its pretty nice overall. It even includes the hook to collect all them gigajoules from the lightning strike on the clock tower. Its parked next to my 1/18 Keaton Batmobile by Hot Wheels.

Huzz


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## john guard (Dec 31, 2001)

just because someone "SAYS" or "i know a guy" does not make it a reality!
i dont care who you know and what you think they know, it does not put it on the shelf.
AND UNTIL A SAN DIEGO CONFIRMATION OR PRESS ANNOUNEMENT there are no FACTS confirming ANYTHING!!!!!!!!!
everyone knows how rumor and talk can never lead to anything. with the 66 Batmobile all we have heard for years is rumor and talk. so why should this so-called deal be any better? just because it's Mattel ??
so my friend Geoff, enjoy my posts.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Relax, John! Don't be so negative. You might jinx the whole deal


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## Geoff Boaz (Jan 1, 1970)

john guard said:


> just because someone "SAYS" or "i know a guy" does not make it a reality!
> i dont care who you know and what you think they know, it does not put it on the shelf.
> AND UNTIL A SAN DIEGO CONFIRMATION OR PRESS ANNOUNEMENT there are no FACTS confirming ANYTHING!!!!!!!!!
> everyone knows how rumor and talk can never lead to anything. with the 66 Batmobile all we have heard for years is rumor and talk. so why should this so-called deal be any better? just because it's Mattel ??
> so my friend Geoff, enjoy my posts.


 No problem, I always enjoy a good message board meltdown. If everyone was sane and reasonable then it would be a really boring place.


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## Dave Hussey (Nov 20, 1998)

I always enjoy a good rumor and the associated speculative talk while maintaining the understanding that things have not yet been confirmed.

So, if things become reality - great! If not, let's remember that we had lots of fun talking about it.

Huzz


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## john guard (Dec 31, 2001)

i'm having fun being a nay-sayer! 

but just in case, if there is a Comic-Con announcement, i will CLAIM to have heard it first and proclaim that i was the only one who believed the rumors!!


i love being contradictory!!


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## Dave Hussey (Nov 20, 1998)

I thought it was only my wife who did that. :jest: 

Huzz


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## sbaxter (Jan 8, 2002)

well then ...

what does it PROVE if they announce it at Comic-Con? that's still just some GUY SAYING they're gonna do it! he could be lying or someone could have lied to him! it could just be a giant RUSE on the part of the other guys at Mattel who hate him and want to embarrass him! if it DOES make it to stores, it might just be a hologram of the car! you open the box and you can't play with it! the steering wheel doesn't turn! and they might put it on STORE SHELVES, but put it on the highest shelf, where we can't REACH it! like one guy mentioned, i won't believe it even if i DO see it. they'll NEVER make this car, even if they DO make it! 

Hey john guard, you're right -- that _is_ fun! :tongue: :lol:

Qapla'

SSB


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## john guard (Dec 31, 2001)

you are so right!
even if a box shows up on the shelves CLAMING to have a BM inside, how are we really to know THERE IS A BM inside the box!???
if this so called Batmobile does show up, we will need certification, legal documents showing this is in fact the authentic replic of said batmobile!
and i want all paperwork signed by George Barris and the CEO in charge of the Studio authorizing it's authorization!!!!


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

sbaxter said:


> well then ...
> 
> what does it PROVE if they announce it at Comic-Con? that's still just some GUY SAYING they're gonna do it! he could be lying or someone could have lied to him! it could just be a giant RUSE on the part of the other guys at Mattel who hate him and want to embarrass him! if it DOES make it to stores, it might just be a hologram of the car! you open the box and you can't play with it! the steering wheel doesn't turn! and they might put it on STORE SHELVES, but put it on the highest shelf, where we can't REACH it! like one guy mentioned, i won't believe it even if i DO see it. they'll NEVER make this car, even if they DO make it!


It's scary to think how much thought you put into that post. :lol:


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## Dave Hussey (Nov 20, 1998)

I am pretty certain that the thing will appear on store shelves.

I am just as sure that my wife will look at it and say "Nooooooooooo! You have enough junk now!!!"

Huzz :freak:


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## sbaxter (Jan 8, 2002)

PerfesserCoffee said:


> It's scary to think how much thought you put into that post. :lol:


It's a cross I bear with dignity! 

Qapla'

SSB


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Dave Hussey said:


> John - do you have a 1/18 scale Back to the Future Delorean


 Nope, I only bought cars I liked .


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## Hunch (Apr 6, 2003)

So I guess this will just be toys and no model kit? Has Mattel ever even made a styrene kit?

Hunch


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## Just Plain Al (Sep 7, 1999)

john guard said:


> you are so right!
> even if a box shows up on the shelves CLAMING to have a BM inside, how are we really to know THERE IS A BM inside the box!???


That's a box I wouldn't want to open. Besides what's the big deal? My cat puts a BM in a box every day.


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

john guard said:


> even if a box shows up on the shelves CLAMING to have a BM inside, how are we really to know THERE IS A BM inside the box!???


... and if there _is_ a batmobile inside, is it alive or dead?

(okay, that's a stretch) :freak:


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Hunch said:


> So I guess this will just be toys and no model kit? Has Mattel ever even made a styrene kit?
> 
> Hunch


 Well, they owned Monogram for a few years! So technically...


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## sbaxter (Jan 8, 2002)

SteveR said:


> ... and if there _is_ a batmobile inside, is it alive or dead?
> 
> (okay, that's a stretch) :freak:


I never thought I'd live long enough to see a Schrödinger's cat reference here! Of course, I never thought I _wouldn't_, either ...

Qapla'

SSB


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## phrankenstign (Nov 29, 1999)

I just saw this thread....Is this really going to happen or not?


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

phrankenstign said:


> I just saw this thread....Is this really going to happen or not?


It will if you'll only *believe! * Everybody, clap your hands if you believe in '66 Batmobile! :tongue:


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

And the cat!


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## Dave Metzner (Jan 1, 1970)

There are two kinds of odds that Mattel will do a styrene kit of the batmobile those odds are SLIM and NONE!

Mattel is a toy company not a model company, which is precisely why they no longer own Monogram!

Dave


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

I've got it on good authority that there *will* be a styrene model kit.

(Of course, the voices in my head _have_ been wrong before :freak: )


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## BatToys (Feb 4, 2002)

I asked a someone I know at a major model kit company and they said Mattel doesn't license by choice to model kit companies.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

IMHO, every toy is a potential model kit. Once you take it apart, accurize and detail it, repaint and re-decal it, it's a kit.


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## Captain Han Solo (Apr 5, 2002)

PerfesserCoffee said:


> IMHO, every toy is a potential model kit. Once you take it apart, accurize and detail it, repaint and re-decal it, it's a kit.


 Your right sir. I am being optomistic. I really hope this will happen. I believe the only guys who don't are the guys selling the resin kits!!!I know I bought several. To me the 66 Batmobile is a Must have. the others being the Jupiter Two, The Original Series Enterprise, The Seaview and Flying sub. If all the greedy palms have indeed been greased, this may very well be the start of Classic 66 Batman Merchandise!!!!!!


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## Dave Metzner (Jan 1, 1970)

It appears that Mattel's Master Toy License for Batman is not a world-wide exclusive contract. I don't think that Warner or licensors in general like to grant exclusive licenses - they like to sell rights to as many licensees as they can.
Mattel, on the other hand has been pretty sucessfull at locking up everything Batman toy related in the US market. 
Also I'm guessing that the Mattel License may EXCLUDE plastic model kits - model kits may not be defined as TOYS by the licensor.
I think (I could be wrong on this one) RC-2 re-issued a bunch of Batman Model kits since Mattel has held the Master toy License If the Mattel license included model kits this would never happen.
If Mattel's license was an exclusive, Bandai would not be able to produce their plastic Batmobile kits and Corgi could not be producing anything Batman related.
Only time will tell if there's going to be a plastic kit. 


Dave


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

beatlepaul said:


> . . . this may very well be the start of Classic 66 Batman Merchandise!!!!!!


Oh, if only! :wave:


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## Zorro (Jun 22, 1999)

beatlepaul said:


> this may very well be the start of Classic 66 Batman Merchandise!!!!!!


I'd love to see West, Ward, Newmar, et. al get a little sliver of the pie.


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## terryr (Feb 11, 2001)

I never saw this photo before.
It looks like Batman and Robin are a little absent-minded.


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## MartinHatfield (Apr 11, 2004)

terryr said:


> I never saw this photo before.
> It looks like Batman and Robin are a little absent-minded.



I believe that is a photo from "Return to the Batcave: The adventure of Adam West and Burt Ward" that was made a few years back.

That Batmobile is not an original. It was a replica loaned to the production company for the special. Kinda like the one used in "Rock Star". It may even be the same one (it has the same black trim around the windows)


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## Zathros (Dec 21, 2000)

SteveR said:


> ... and if there _is_ a batmobile inside, is it alive or dead?
> 
> (okay, that's a stretch) :freak:


 
:lol: ..Good Point!


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## Zathros (Dec 21, 2000)

*GREED Personified*

To me, this entire 66 Batmobile license continuing saga is sickening..And its all
because of greed, imo..Barris wants so much, Warner brothers wants so much,
and neither will compromise..Both Barris and Warner Brothers made a FRICKIN FORTUNE off the damn franchise over 40 years..how much is enough?? They
should be GLAD that anyone would still want a car designed from a TV show 
after 40 years, and that they still can make money from it..Jeez! any money they'd make from it would be PURE cream , and it costs neither of them ANYTHING...all they would have to do is deposit the checks, as they came in..Its beyond me why Barris Or WB would give a flying crap ..The best thing
to me, would have been if PL would have repopped the Aurora kit..True,
it wasnt "dead on", but it would have been another great vintage re-issue..
I got sick of waiting for the two stubborn & greedy corporations to stop
acting ridiculous, and bought an aurora batmobile on E-bay for 80.00, and bought a few Futuras, and will customize one one of these days, and I'm
done with it....


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## Dave Metzner (Jan 1, 1970)

Greed? 
Why do we always have to attribute the actions of large toy producers and large licensors to evil motives.

I personally don't know anything about the actual dollar amounts involved in this! Nobody on this forum has access to that information. We are all making blind assumptions here.

My best guess is that the several disputing parties involved in the TV car have finally found common ground which allows a license to be issued for Mattel to produce the 1966 TV car. 
I'm guessing that Mattel's substantial assets certainly were usefull for them to get everybody to agree in this.

There may be big dollars involved here - there are also substantial risks being taken by Mattel.
The facts are that all these corporations are going to operate with an eye toward generating profit, this is an obligation they have to their stock holders. 

IMHO greed has nothing to do with it....it's simply the way business gets done

Dave


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

terryr said:


> I never saw this photo before.
> It looks like Batman and Robin are a little absent-minded.


It looks as though Adam West could play Alfred now.


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## Zorro (Jun 22, 1999)

PerfesserCoffee said:


> It looks as though Adam West could play Alfred now.


Actually the man looks pretty darned good for 78 years old (this September).


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Zorro said:


> Actually the man looks pretty darned good for 78 years old (this September).


Oh, I agree with that. He would make a better looking than usual sort of Alfred.


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## Zathros (Dec 21, 2000)

Dave Metzner said:


> Greed?
> Why do we always have to attribute the actions of large toy producers and large licensors to evil motives.
> 
> Dave


YES, Dave, g r e e d..I didn't necessarily say that it was "evil " greed, simply 
Greed...The point I was making (again) is that it costs Barris & WB nothing
to grant a license whatever..case in point: I own a car I designed 40 years ago..someone wants to make a replica of it;;they pay me money , and I grant them a piece of paper : License to produce so many, and I get royalties on each kit as well..If I own the rights to my own property how in blazes is it going to cost ME anything if someone wants to make and sell a replica of MY item???? an attorney fee to draw up the papers, and bean counters to tally up the windfall?? big deal.. the bottom line, as I understood it, is neither Barris NOR Warner brothers would budge on thier "price" for licensing,,IE :greed..I could see if they had to produce the product..but all they have to do is collect the CASH & Royalties....The way "business gets done" is to DO "business" instead of spending years "posturing" ..Generations change..if they keep posturing ,by the time both licensors wake up and realize that they can make money without charging such a massive license fee, no one will care about a 1966 TV batmobile and there would be no point in making one then....


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## Dave Hussey (Nov 20, 1998)

If Mattel had to pay big bucks to get the license to produce the Adam West batmobile, I would think that may be reflected in the retail price of the items.

Hopefully, the price will be reasonable despite that.

Huzz


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Dave Hussey said:


> Hopefully, the price will be reasonable despite that.
> 
> Huzz


Yeah! Mass production! Lower price! I LIKE it! :thumbsup:


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## Dave Metzner (Jan 1, 1970)

Once more, we don't really know who's held up the licensing agreement for the TV Batmobile.
From everything that's been said over the last several years it seems that Barris has always wanted to see it done, but has asserted ownership over the design. The studios have claimed ownership because they say Barris built the car as "work under contract" I believe that the studios have won in court on that point.

It seems that WB's position on the TV series has been:
"We don't own it so we can't license it, but we DO own DC Comics and everything else Batman related and nobody can license ANYTHING connected to Batman without us"

I don't think anybody really knows what the TV show producers (the third party in the dispute) were demanding. I think it's a safe bet that they felt that they owned the "intelectual property" so nothing was going to happen without their blessings.

IF the 66 Batmobile is indeed going to be produced then it is obvious that Mattel took the steps to get all the parties to make some compromises and an agreement has been reached. 

How it got done - who gets what - how much the licensors are getting is really none of our business! 

I'll bet that the amount of licensing money being paid out is not outrageous. 

Mattel is taking on the real risk here, they need to make a profit on this deal and the Batmobile products they'll market still need to fit into their established price points.

Members of this BB who've contributed to this thread think the 1966 Batmobile is "THE HOLY GRAIL" of Batman toys - it remains to be proven that the general market agrees.

Mattel will not be able to charge a big price premium for TV Batmobile toys, they'll sell them at the same prices as other similar Hot Wheels cars. 

Dave


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Dave Metzner said:


> . . . it remains to be proven that the general market agrees.


*BLASPHEMER! HERETIC!*

Have you not read the prophecies?


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## phrankenstign (Nov 29, 1999)

Dave Metzner said:


> Mattel will not be able to charge a big price premium for TV Batmobile toys, they'll sell them at the same prices as other similar Hot Wheels cars.


 This is not always true. I don't usually collect Hot Wheels cars, but I've seen all kinds of licensed products go for more than the products put out without special licensing. Look at all of the licensed versions of Monopoly (usually $34.95-$39.95) and Uno (usually $5.95-$12.95). They all cost more than the regular versions ($12.00 for Monopoly) and ($4.95 for Uno). If the '66 Batmobile design licensing did cost more than usual, I'll bet Mattel passes the cost on to the consumer.


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## Dave Hussey (Nov 20, 1998)

I bought Hot Wheels' 1/18 diecast Keaton Batmobile some time last year and while I don't recall exactly what I paid for it, I think it was around $30 Canadian or less. Over the years there have been many model and die cast reproductions of that car. 

In contrast, there has never been anything in recent years of the Barris Batmobile. I cannot speak for the market in general, but as for myself, I'd pay a few extra dollars for a nicely done 1/18 die cast Barris Batmobile. I'm pretty sure most of the folks who hang here would as well. As for what the rest of the die cast market would pay, that's up to Hot Wheel's Marketing Department to figure out.

Huzz


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## Dave Metzner (Jan 1, 1970)

Sorry Perfesser, 

Guess I missed the prophecies 

I hope that all of the guys out there who have been waiting since 1966 for a good replica of the Barris Batmobile have all their dreams fulfilled by Mattel.
I'm sure that they'll produce lots of different versions, in different scales, at various price points by the time they're done

Personally, I wouldn't give two dead flies for a die cast toy model of the 1966 Batmobile. Of course I wouldn't give two dead flies for a die cast toy of any Batmobile.
I'm not a Batmobile fanatic. 
I'm not even all that hot for a Plastic kit of that car. but that's just me; a blasphemous old fart.

I'm saving my money for that new 1/32 P-51 Mustang kit that Academy has announced and for a couple more Hasegawa Phantom kits! 

Dave


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## Dave Hussey (Nov 20, 1998)

Blasphemous old fart? Ha! A guy at my work drops by my desk and farts a lot too. Usually when he figures some girl is coming over to talk to me about some work issue.

He must be a friend of yours!:jest: 

Huzz


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## Dave Metzner (Jan 1, 1970)

Dave Hussey said:


> Blasphemous old fart? Ha! A guy at my work drops by my desk and farts a lot too. Usually when he figures some girl is coming over to talk to me about some work issue.
> 
> 
> Huzz


Hey Dave,
I have a suggestion,get your gasseous buddy some Beano!!!:wave: 

Dave


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## Dave Hussey (Nov 20, 1998)

Ah Dave, if only!!

He has resisted all such overtures and we have dubbed him *Methane Man* in honor of his dubious dis-stink-shun!

Huzz :wave: Keep waving! Can't breathe..............


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## Dave Metzner (Jan 1, 1970)

"Methane Man" sounds like an obscure DC Comics super hero??
"Silent But Deadly"?

ROFLMAO!!!!!! 

Dave


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Dave Metzner said:


> "Methane Man" sounds like an obscure DC Comics super hero??
> "Silent But Deadly"?
> 
> ROFLMAO!!!!!!
> ...


Wasn't that "The Spleen" (P.W. Herman) on "Mystery Men."?


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## John DeBlasi (Dec 31, 1999)

*Mattel 1966 Batmobile Fantasy*

Screw Warner Bros., Abc-tv, Dc Comics, George Barris, Mattel And All The Rest. I Have The Beautiful Large Italian Die-cast 1966 Batmobile That Lights Up.


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## Zorro (Jun 22, 1999)

John DeBlasi said:


> Screw Warner Bros., Abc-tv, Dc Comics, George Barris, Mattel And All The Rest. I Have The Beautiful Large Italian Die-cast 1966 Batmobile That Lights Up.


Pics?


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## Dave Hussey (Nov 20, 1998)

LOL!! :lol: 

Huzz


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## scotpens (Sep 6, 2003)

terryr said:


> I never saw this photo before.
> It looks like Batman and Robin are a little absent-minded.


Is it just the camera angle, or does the Batmobile have a slight list to starboard?

I understand Burt Ward owns his own graphic design business now. He must be doing well — certainly seems to be _eating_ well!

(Hell, if fart jokes are OK, I guess fat jokes are fair game too.)


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## terryr (Feb 11, 2001)

He has a special effects company - Boy Wonder Productions, or something.


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## The Batman (Mar 21, 2000)

Plus, it doesn't hurt that he married an already wealthy woman.

- GJS


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## BatToys (Feb 4, 2002)

Speaking of Burt Ward, what is the true story of the "Robin vs. Kato" fight?
I heard Bruce Lee pretended he was really going to hit Burt and Burt was understandably worried. But Bruce Lee doesn't seem like a bully.


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## terryr (Feb 11, 2001)

When they did the Batman/Green Hornet crossover it was decided Robin would beat up Kato. Lee didn't like that and smashed things up, and said he'd show Ward who was best. It probably was a bluff, but it worked. The fight was a tie.


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## Frankie Boy (Feb 28, 2002)

"YES, Dave, g r e e d..I didn't necessarily say that it was "evil " greed, simply 
Greed"

Say what?! (Sorry, I just caught up to this whole silly conversation now) Anyway ...

That's like saying, Murder? Oh, I didn't mean "bad" murder.

Greed, by definition, is evil. It's one of the seven deadly sins, you may recall. Not that I'm religious 'cause I ain't.

And as far as who's holding out for what to make what profit for whatever ... hellllooooo? That's the American Way, isn't it? We're living in a capitalist economy. Welcome to reality.


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## Zathros (Dec 21, 2000)

Frankie Boy said:


> "YES, Dave, g r e e d..I didn't necessarily say that it was "evil " greed, simply
> Greed"
> 
> Say what?! (Sorry, I just caught up to this whole silly conversation now) Anyway ...
> ...


As far as I know, the only countries or groups of people that consider 
greed "evil" are Socialists..And since this aint a political forum, I wont go any further than that..And I am well aware of Reality..and the reality is definitely this: this car is from a 40 year old show, that wasnt as NEAR as popular as say..Star wars or Star trek..The licensors should be glad as hell that anyone would want to market that car in any case ..and the reality is also this..If it aint making money, and someone offers you money..WHY NOT take it???"want a dollar?,,no thanks , I got one.."..I also disagree with you that greed by definition is "evil"..thats entirely subjective...you simply cannot compare greed with Murder..they are two entirely different things..Greed is the accumulation of wealth..Murder is the willfull destruction of the life of a fellow human being...that,my friend is true reality.."holding out "..is fine..but for 40 YEARS???hellooo??? ..why not wait until anyone who wanted a 1966 Batmobile is 60+ years old....Pathetic, and practically laughable!


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## Zorro (Jun 22, 1999)

.... "You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!"


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## Frankie Boy (Feb 28, 2002)

Ohhkaay...

As I said, I'm not at all religious, but I think I just threw pearls before swine.

ps: Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary (an American publication) defines greed as "reprehensible acquisitiveness". But I'm sure they don't mean reprehensible in a bad way.


pps:Good one, Zorro. :thumbsup:


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## Dave Metzner (Jan 1, 1970)

Ok time to lock this thread!
#1 This is essentially a Die Cast Toy thread - not a plastic modeling thread. I've let it go on because so many members of this forum have been interested in the subject.

#2 This thread is deteriorating into an argument over the meaning of the word greed! there must be better ways for us to spend our time! I think we've gotten all the good information out - time to move on.

Dave


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