# Color chips of the Flying Sub and Seaview



## Gary K (Aug 26, 2002)

*Color Chips of the Flying Sub and Seaview*

In light of the upcoming release of the Seaview by Moebius Models, I thought I should share this information about the color scheme of the Seaview and Flying Sub:

FLYING SUB

The Flying Sub was NOT a pure, lemon yellow. Rather, it was slightly orangey, more of a "school bus yellow." In my collection, I've got tiny chip of yellow paint from one of the original 36" Flying Sub models (the one that was equipped with landing gear & manipulator claws). I checked the paint chip against my swatch of Federal Standard colors, and it's a close match to FS 13538.

Note that FS 13538 is a gloss yellow. Judging from some 4th season episodes on VHS tape, it appears that the full-scale mockup of the Flying Sub's aft end was painted a gloss yellow. The miniatures, though, had more of a satin finish.

SEAVIEW

A friend of mine, Andy Bendel, recently contacted me with some interesting info about some events that transpired in 1985. Here it is in Andy's own words:

"About the time I purchased my DeBoer Seaview, I had found out that Dave Merriman was restoring the 17 footer. I was bolder in those days, so I got his phone number ... and out of the blue, I called Merriman. He was very polite and very patient with me, someone he'd never talked to before. I had a long conversation and one of the things I asked him was, 'Just what color grey WAS the hull?' 

"His response was that, rather than try to describe it, he would send me some paint chips right off the sub! And he DID!!!! 

"In a letter I later received from Dave ... he sent me a dark grey chip of paint and a light grey chip of paint. He sent what he thought were the ORIGINAL 1961 colors, actually some slop-over from the inside of the hull, which he felt hadn't been overpainted. Now, it may very well be that the paint has faded since 1961...but at the time...I had these chips computer-matched and computer remixed at Ace Hardware. 

"The darker gray, for the upper hull, is what you'd expect. It actually closely resembles the shade of the 17-footer in the TV GUIDE pics, just more neutral in color (less bluish).

"And -- surprise -- the keel color, after it dried, looks white to the naked eye. Even under different lighting sources, it still appears to be white. Except, if you place a piece of ordinary white paper next to it, the keel color doesn't look white anymore, it looks very light grey. And when you remove the white paper -- presto -- the keel color sample looks white again. When the upper hull color sample is placed next to the keel color, the contrast is such that the keel color looks even whiter. Sort of an optical illusion, I guess.

"There you have it, and the answer to why so many modelers are confused over this issue. That is why Merriman told you the color was simply 'white.' That's because it is, and then again, it isn't. 

"It also gives insight into the color design of the Seaview's exterior. It's now clear to me that the keel was designed and intended to look white on film, just painted with a toned-down shade that would, on an Eastman color release print, yield the look of white."

Andy sent me a chip of each computer-matched color. I checked the chips against my Federal Standard swatches, under both incandescent & daylight, and the best matches I've found for Andy's chips are:

TOPSIDE:

FS 36300 is a near-perfect match. In the world of commonly available paints, "Light Ghost Gray," FS 36375, is a close match - just a shade lighter than Andy's chip. I haven't tried it, but I think a 50/50 mix of Light Ghost Gray (FS 36375) and Dark Ghost Gray (FS 36320) might be a very close match to the original paint.

BELLY:

Andy's chip was a shade lighter than FS 35630, which is Imperial Japanese Army Lt. Gray. Camouflage Gray (FS 36622) is close, but it's a bit darker, and perhaps a hair browner, than Andy's chip.

Disclaimer: these colors are an estimate, based on the eyeballs of myself and a friend. The colors perceived by your own eyeballs may be different. 

Like Andy said, the chips look just like the colors you'd expect for the 8-window Seaview. Of course, the Seaview models were repainted many times during the course of Voyage's production and eventually ended up in a darker shade of gray that had a slight brownish/greenish cast. At least, Andy's colors are a good starting point for deciding what color to paint your Seaview model.

Gary


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## Captain Han Solo (Apr 5, 2002)

Thanks for the info Sir!!!

However, for me personally, I have found one soulution. After building several Lunar Seaviews,and mixing this with that, I have found that a rattle can primer ,found at Wallmart, works the best for me. "Machine Grey Primer" yields the best results for the upper hull ,to my eyes. Camouflage grey for the belly. I have tried combination after combination, and this was the best results I had with my references.

High Regards, 
BP


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## Lloyd Collins (Sep 25, 2004)

Thanks,Gary! 

Now to stock up on paint.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

The belly color sounds like ModelMaster "light gray" would be a good match. It has exactly the effect noted - it looks white until you put actual white next to it, and then it looks light gray. I use it for painting movie-era starships like the Excelsior.

Okay, I'm going with that, and dark ghost gray for my first try.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Wow! And now _we_ get great information right out of the blue! :thumbsup:

Thanks, Gary K!


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Good ol' Testors chrome yellow, or insignia yellow for FS-1.

http://www.inpayne.com/models/flyingsub.html


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

PerfesserCoffee said:


> Wow! And now _we_ get great information right out of the blue! :thumbsup:
> 
> Thanks, Gary K!


 NO! It's _not _blue!!!


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

John P said:


> NO! It's _not _blue!!!



It's _green_???


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## Wbnemo1 (Aug 22, 1999)

Howdy,
my 2 cents for what's it's worth....on the flying sub,assuming no one caught this already, especially Gary K. I learned through research and speaking to owner of the 36" mechanical miniature that it is indeed a pretty orange-yellow,satin finish, yet solid yellow. It does however have some shading in orange in the shadow areas as well, at least on the 36"er... this was pointed out to me and obvious in some of my reference. The FS1 sub is "Navy vessel" of sorts and ironically, the two colors I've found that most resemble the Flying sub miniature are the colors used in the Navy's demonstration team, the Blue Angels. These colors translate to almost an exact match. This is how mine will be finished as well.
Will


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

Will is right.

The Blue Angel blue and yellow colors are perfect for the Flying Sub. They are the ones I've used. Blue Angel Yellow is FS13655 and Blue Angel Blue is FS15050.


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## Gary K (Aug 26, 2002)

Wbnemo1 said:


> Howdy,
> my 2 cents for what's it's worth....on the flying sub,assuming no one caught this already, especially Gary K. I learned through research and speaking to owner of the 36" mechanical miniature that it is indeed a pretty orange-yellow,satin finish, yet solid yellow. It does however have some shading in orange in the shadow areas as well, at least on the 36"er... this was pointed out to me and obvious in some of my reference. The FS1 sub is "Navy vessel" of sorts and ironically, the two colors I've found that most resemble the Flying sub miniature are the colors used in the Navy's demonstration team, the Blue Angels. These colors translate to almost an exact match. This is how mine will be finished as well.
> Will


You are, indeed, correct about the orange shadowing along the aft flanks of the Flying Sub. Like actors, the spfx models needed "makeup" to appear natural on TV. If you check some of the 'Voyage' DVDs, you'll see that the Seaview, too, had shadowing around its sonar domes, along its three keels, etc.

If you, or someone else, can give me the Federal Standard number of the yellow-orange color that the Blue Angels use, I'll compare it with my paint chip. 

I'll throw out question: do any of you Hobby Talkers know how the art directors at Fox, or other studios, specified colors for sets and spfx models in the 60s? How did they tell the painters what color to make the support beams in the Jupiter 2's control room, the front of the Space Pod, or the corridor walls of the Seaview?

Gary


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## Gary K (Aug 26, 2002)

Trek Ace said:


> Will is right.
> 
> The Blue Angel blue and yellow colors are perfect for the Flying Sub. They are the ones I've used. Blue Angel Yellow is FS13655 and Blue Angel Blue is FS15050.


I compared my Flying Sub paint chip with a swatch of FS13655. The Blue Angels color is close to the shade of the chip, but is a bit less orange. On the other hand, Blue Angel Yellow seems to be a good match for the color of the Flying Subs, as they appear on film. I don't think you could go too wrong, using either shade.

For some inexplicable reason, I've never documented the exact color of the blue trim on the FS models. Something else to work on....


Gary


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## Wbnemo1 (Aug 22, 1999)

Ace Hardware's yellow enamel paint
"School Bus Yellow - 17135" used
for light signal body and parts 
this was for restoring an old traffic light but i think this is the color


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

Here is a simple solution: Lay on a coat of yellow-orange paint on first. Then, gradually apply light coats of FS13655 Blue Angel Yellow while leaving less coverage on certain contours to create the shading effect of the studio miniatures. You control the density of the shaded contours as well as the overall "warmth" of the yellow depending on the thickness of the top coats.


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## bert model maker (Feb 19, 2002)

Gary K said:


> I compared my Flying Sub paint chip with a swatch of FS13655. The Blue Angels color is close to the shade of the chip, but is a bit less orange. On the other hand, Blue Angel Yellow seems to be a good match for the color of the Flying Subs, as they appear on film. I don't think you could go too wrong, using either shade.
> 
> For some inexplicable reason, I've never documented the exact color of the blue trim on the FS models. Something else to work on....
> 
> ...


 Gary, You have the actual paint chips that came off the seaview & F/S ? that is something to save and display on it's own.


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## Gary K (Aug 26, 2002)

model maker said:


> Gary, You have the actual paint chips that came off the seaview & F/S ? that is something to save and display on it's own.


I've got a tiny piece of gelcoat, slightly smaller than the nail on my little finger, that flaked off a 3 ft Flying Sub model, but my computer-matched paint samples of the Seaview came from Andy Bendel, who got the actual chips from Dave Merriman. 

I've got other original movie props, but my prize artifact is the 2" long splinter of wood from the original 11 ft Enterprise model, given to me by Ed Miarecki. If I ever get unpacked, I've got a large room in my new house that'll serve as my "museum."

Gary


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## bert model maker (Feb 19, 2002)

those ARE treasures !


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## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

I don't know how I managed to miss this thread until now, but thanks for posting. This sort of info is priceless.

Given the above, I'm surprised Dave chose to go as "lemony" as he did with his Teskey FS. 

Ever the iconoclast, I guess. 



Gary K said:


> I called Merriman. He was very polite and very patient with me, someone he'd never talked to before. I had a long conversation and one of the things I asked him was, 'Just what color grey WAS the hull?'
> 
> "His response was that, rather than try to describe it, he would send me some paint chips right off the sub! And he DID!!!!


Yeah, this is the side of Merriman that often gets overshadowed by his Crusty Old Coot facade. I've had similar experiences with the man, and I can attest to the fact that he'll bend over backwards to help you if he senses you're serious about modeling. 



Gary K said:


> I'll throw out question: do any of you Hobby Talkers know how the art directors at Fox, or other studios, specified colors for sets and spfx models in the 60s?


Interesting question. Have you asked Merriman or Miarecki? I'm sure Greg Jein would know if the they don't.


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## Gary K (Aug 26, 2002)

Carson Dyle said:


> I don't know how I managed to miss this thread until now, but thanks for posting. This sort of info is priceless.
> 
> Given the above, I'm surprised Dave chose to go as "lemony" as he did with his Teskey FS.
> 
> Ever the iconoclast, I guess.


Dave probably chose "lemony" yellow for the Teskey FS because: 1. I didn't dig my paint chip out of the basement till recently, and 2. the FS looks more lemony in underwater reference shots. I'm sure Dave's next FS model will be more of an orangey yellow.



Carson Dyle said:


> Yeah, this is the side of Merriman that often gets overshadowed by his Crusty Old Coot facade. I've had similar experiences with the man, and I can attest to the fact that he'll bend over backwards to help you if he senses you're serious about modeling.


Dave does not suffer fools gladly, but like you said, if you are serious about your project, he will freely share all his modeling tips, references, and other info with you. I *would* say that Dave's a big ol' pussycat underneath his gruff exterior, but he'd probably tell me to go f*** myself!  



Carson Dyle said:


> Interesting question. Have you asked Merriman or Miarecki? I'm sure Greg Jein would know if the they don't.


I've already asked how art directors specified colors for props & sets in the 60s, but nobody knows for sure. Greg Jein said he'll ask William Creber, if he runs into him.

Gary


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## Dave Hussey (Nov 20, 1998)

I don't pretend to know Dave Merriman well, but he did send me a nice note a while ago complimenting me on my modified Aurora Seaview with the resin TV version bow and Flying Sub.

Huzz


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## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

Gary K said:


> if you are serious about your project, he will freely share all his modeling tips


When it comes modeling VTTBOTS subjects I've found both Dave and ************* to be very gracious with their time and expertise. The only catch is when they disagree on something and I get caught in the middle, lol.

BTW Gary, I sent a PM re: your 60's color question.


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## Wbnemo1 (Aug 22, 1999)

Gary , my color chip is bigger than yours :devil: couldn't resist
Will


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

Stupid question time-
I understand about the Yellow, but were what is commonly thought of as black trim actually a dark blue? Does this apply to all non-yellow areas or are other parts actuially black? When I origianlly watched the show it was in first run and we had a black & white TV, I haven't gotten the DVDs yet.
.


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## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

Despite the original Aurora issue box art, there were no "black" areas on the Flying Sub filming miniatures. The paint scheme consisted of a yellow hull with dark blue and dull silver trim.


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