# Course Plan - Comments?



## Dslot (Sep 2, 2007)

No space for a permanent track, but in '05 I used my old Aurora HO equipment to create a temporary 4-lane layout on a hollowcore door for a get-together of high school and college friends. Been reading the slot forums since then and now I want to do it again (this time with Tomy track instead of Aurora L&J).

I've come up with a plan for another temp layout, using two 28"x79" hollow doors in an L shape. I'd appreciate it if you guys would take a look at the drawing and offer any comments. There's a lot of experience on this forum, and I'm pretty noob.

GOALS FOR THE TRACK: 
It's just a friendly nostalgia event. Nobody will be an experienced slot-jocky. We'll just be using my old T-jets and some JLs, divided into rough performance classes (and maybe modern Tomys for A class), so I want a road course where the driver's skill makes more difference than happening to pick a slightly hotter car; that's why there are lots of twisties and only one long straight.

No two corners are alike because I want to reward the driver with the best intuitive road sense. Besides, those repeated constant-radius turns that I see on a lot of slot-tracks just don't look much like real courses to me. I used different-radius pieces to make winding and unwinding turns, tight apexes, etc. I'd be especially interested to hear comments on this - so few people do it, I have to wonder whether it has some hidden disadvantage I may not be aware of. 

I'd like to drop the track down from the main (straightaway) level to go under the overpass, as well as build it up to cross over. My first thought was to use a layer of rigid foam sheet (the hi-density pink or blue stuff) under most of the course, with a cutout starting after the main straight, to let the track slope downward toward the tunnel. But on another forum, one of the guys said the foam's not good for table surface, since it gets gouged by deslotting cars and you end up with little bits of foam all over the track and in the cars. Anyone have experience with this, and maybe a cure?

Thanks for any and all comments and suggestions.










*Update:* While the Household Zoning Commission was out of town, a friend and I set up a test version in the living room for a couple of days and ran some JL Thunderjets, old AFXs, and new Tomy SG+'s. The driving experience seemed a bit too constricted even for what I'm wanting to do, so I'm thinking of eliminating Turn 12 to lengthen the back straight. A secondary advantage is that this adds a bit of room for infield scenery. The track shape doesn't look as good to me, but I think it may drive better.









We also learned that turn 6 is a killer; that little buried bit of tight radius in the middle of the curve kept spinning us, even after we knew it was there from earlier spinouts. We were getting through the other tight spots fine, but that one kept fooling us. Don't know if I want to fix it or just give it some melodramatic name like Undertaker's Bend.
- D


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## coach61 (Sep 6, 2004)

I like it, good use of the space.. so when ya having uss all over to drink your beer, eat your food etc?


Coach!


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## TK Solver (Mar 18, 2004)

Good design. I like the use of carousel turns at the ends of the straights -- turn right and then loop left. If the turn just went left, the outside lane gets too much of an advantage.


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## Scafremon (Dec 11, 2006)

Those layout pictures are beautiful! How do you do that?

I wish I could offer tips on the actual layout, but I am too new to the hobby to have any valuable input.

I just think your design layouts are stunning to look at.

Oh! One thing that may be of value. Check out this link to a track that was lowered below the table surface under and overpass. Maybe that will be helpful. 

http://www.inlandempirehoraceway.itgo.com/photo6.html

I'm not sure of the construction details, but I have emailed Mickey before regarding this track, and I think he would be happy to offer tips on how he did it.

Jeff

PS: Hope you post lots of pics of your build!


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## ic-racer (Jan 21, 2007)

Dslot said:


> The driving experience seemed a bit too constricted even for what I'm wanting to do, so I'm thinking of eliminating Turn 12 to lengthen the back straight.


One thing to think about is that as the cars get faster (ie magnet cars etc.) your ability to 'drive' through the twisty sections hampered by the fact the cars go so fast. You wind up having to just hold a constant speed on the controller, which is just the OPPOSITE of what you indend with the track. That is, you want to make it a DRIVER'S course.

If you check out my track (http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=197484) and others made by very experienced HO drivers(http://www.ohioho.com/Schedule07.html), you will see the long straights that give you some time to react and have a chance to nail it on the straights and have enought time to brake for the impending corner. 

It really does depend on the type of car you want to race. For example on my track a stock 'skinny-tired' T-jet takes about 12 seconds to go around, and you can really adjust your speed right to the brink as you slide throught those 3 curves at the left of the track. However, with a neo-magnet car, the lap time is about 2.2 seconds. Thes cars go throught the curves so fast you can barely see them, let alone try to move your finger fast enough to 'drive' through the corners. You wind up holding a constant setting through all 3 of these curves. 

I 'm not saying your should change your layout, but a track thats fun with a t-jet may not be so fun with a magnet car, everything is a compromise...


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## Dslot (Sep 2, 2007)

coach61 said:


> .. so when ya having uss all over to drink your beer...


Depends, Coach. Gotta make some buildings, fiddle with the controller ranges, paint up some more spectators (I hate the "six talent scouts in a 60-seat grandstand" look), and - the big question mark - monkey with reed switches to see if I can make a reliable detector to work with the $15 PC I bought at a yard sale (nobody writes lap timer software for my Mac). I had hoped for a November race date; January's probably more realistic.

But I'll stock up the fridge ahead of time, just in case I finish early. What's your brand?

-- D


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## Dslot (Sep 2, 2007)

Scafremon said:


> Those layout pictures are beautiful! How do you do that?


Thanks for the kind words, Jeff. 

I'm on a Mac, but the track-design programs on the web are for PCs. Being a (mostly) retired graphic artist, I just did it all up from scratch in Adobe Illustrator for Macintosh. Each track piece is a movable element, but I don't have the enhancements that the good track-design programs have - like automatic piece-to-piece locking and alignment, automatic length-of-run calculation, and a big track library. I just create one each of the particular pieces I need, duplicate it when I need more and nudge and fiddle 'em into place. Then I fudge up scenery and buildings. I'd sure like to have that 3-D perspective viewing thingie in *Ultimate Racer 3.0*, but not badly enough to learn to program 3D and build the system myself. One thing I _am_ happy with in my homebrew program is the appearance. I do think it's prettier than the commercial ones I've seen, but since I designed the look to please myself, I guess that sort of follows.



Scafremon said:


> Check out this link to a track that was lowered below the table surface under and overpass. Maybe that will be helpful.
> http://www.inlandempirehoraceway.itgo.com/photo6.html


Hey, what a great how-to sequence! And one I hadn't seen before. Don't think I can use his precise underpass technique, but I love the wedge shims making those cool camber changes. I may just use that idea to make Dead Man's Curve (Turn 6) a bit less deadly. (Sorry, Jan and Dean).

-- D


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## Dslot (Sep 2, 2007)

ic-racer said:


> ... as the cars get faster (ie magnet cars etc.) ... you wind up having to just hold a constant speed on the controller, which is just the OPPOSITE of what you indend with the track...
> I 'm not saying your should change your layout, but a track thats fun with a t-jet may not be so fun with a magnet car, everything is a compromise...


This is just the kind of comment I was looking for, IC-Racer - course-design advice from somebody with more racing experience than I have. I definitely want the track to be designed for 60s-70s technology (T-jet & some AFX), and body styles from that era. Any advanced magnet cars would just be for novelty.

One problem I had test-driving the course was the Tomy controllers. I thought they were supposed to be 60-ohm, which puts them close to what the T-jet blue controllers were, but with the JL cars, all the control was in the first half-inch of trigger movement - it was flat-out after that, so I couldn't get a good feel of what the cars could do in the corners. I'll modify the Tomys with extra resistors, or replace the rheostat windings, or dig out my old blue Aurora Russkits and see what happens on the next test. Oddly, the cars that seemed best matched to the stock Tomy controllers were old AFX mag cars.

-- D


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## ic-racer (Jan 21, 2007)

Dslot said:


> but with the JL cars, all the control was in the first half-inch of trigger movement - it was flat-out after that,


Lucky Bob has the Parma 90 ohm controllers that will work better with those cars. http://www.lucky-bobs-slot-cars.com/wizzard-difalco-parma-controllers.html

Another fix is to lower the voltage. I don't have a set of four 90 ohm controllers, so when we bring those cars out I lower the track voltage to 12 volts from 18 volts. This makes the cars more enjoyable with the four 45 ohm 'house' controllers I have.

I bought a Difalco electronic controller for myself when they were on sale at Lucky Bob's and it is the best thing I have done. Not only is it great for neo-magnet cars, it also makes the scale and vintage cars much more controllable.


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

Some stock Tomy controllers are 45 ohm,look inside the handle,the ohmage will be stamped into the top-end of the resistor,or dig out your multi-meter and test it.
Stock Tyco controllers are usually around 80 ohms


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## Dslot (Sep 2, 2007)

ic-racer said:


> Lucky Bob has the Parma 90 ohm controllers that will work better with those cars.


I'd like to use the Parmas, but I'd have to buy four (and maybe one for backup). Even at only $20-$30 each, that's starting to sound like real money (to me, anyway). But I have time and an assortment of old set controllers, so I'll probably try modifying them for higher resistance, either by switching out the resistor, or adding resistance in series. I have a thread going on that subject on the Tech Q&A 



ic-racer said:


> Another fix is to lower the voltage. ...when we bring those cars out I lower the track voltage to 12 volts from 18 volts...


That sounds like a good option, too. I usually use four Aurora T-Jet powerpacks. If I dig through the old model-train power-pack box I might be able to find four matched 12v DC boxes. Or an old Lionel AC transformer with enough amps to handle all four lanes, plus a separate rectifier to turn it to DC.

-- D


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## Dslot (Sep 2, 2007)

Hornet said:


> Some stock Tomy controllers are 45 ohm,look inside the handle,the ohmage will be stamped into the top-end of the resistor,or dig out your multi-meter and test it.
> Stock Tyco controllers are usually around 80 ohms


Ahh. So that's why the old AFX cars ran so well on it - they came with 45 ohm controllers originally. It all begins to drop into place.

I have never been able to find the ohm-rating stamp on a Tomy controller by peering through the slots. The multimeter reads about 45, though. Bingo!

I'm told you can replace the controller's resistor with the core of a 100-ohm Radio Shack ceramic resistor for super-soft T-jet control. I wish these controllers screwed together, like in the old days, so I wouldn't have to cut it apart to get into it.

Or maybe I'll just punt, and fall back to the old blue 60-ohm Aurora controllers; I have four of those. I'll have to rig custom power taps for the track, or convert the controllers to those clunky Tomy plugs.

Thanks for the info.
-- D


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

Usually Tyco controller's ohm the highest,they are stamped with 70,but any i've ever checked are closer to 80 ohms.
LOL,finding that number stamped into the resistor can be tough,it should be right on the top end band of the resistor stamped just where the band clamp folds over the ceramic,tyco controllers are stamped there too


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## Dslot (Sep 2, 2007)

Hornet said:


> Usually Tyco controller's ohm the highest,they are stamped with 70,but any i've ever checked are closer to 80 ohms.
> LOL,finding that number stamped into the resistor can be tough,it should be right on the top end band of the resistor stamped just where the band clamp folds over the ceramic,tyco controllers are stamped there too


I have always been able to find the stamp on Tyco and old Aurora controllers, but I can never see it on the Tomys. I thought it might just be hidden behind the heat-sink, but after taking one apart yesterday and completely removing the resistor, I still can't find the numbers. The only thing stamped on the resistor caps seems to be "EE" with the letters very tall and thin.

After the chore of cutting open the housing, replacing the resistor with the 100-ohm Radio Shack resistor was surprisingly easy. Still not thrilled with the performance, though.  Too soft now. Maybe something in between - the blue Aurora 60s or look through the garage-sale equipment box for some extra Tyco controllers. Hate that zooty styling, but handsome is as handsome does, as my mother used to say.

-- D


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## Scafremon (Dec 11, 2006)

This track build thread could use a bump!  

Anything new on your build Dslot?


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## twolff (May 11, 2007)

Dslot said:


> I'd like to use the Parmas, but I'd have to buy four (and maybe one for backup). Even at only $20-$30 each, that's starting to sound like real money (to me, anyway). -- D


90 Ohn Parma econ. controllers with nylon triggers are ~ $20 ea. on eBay. Easy to modify and resistors are ~$10. Most importantly, your hands will thank you. I replaced all my Tomy controllers as the throttle springs failed. Never going back.


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## Ted Bonehed (Dec 9, 2007)

Dslot said:


> But on another forum, one of the guys said the foam's not good for table surface, since it gets gouged by deslotting cars and you end up with little bits of foam all over the track and in the cars. Anyone have experience with this, and maybe a cure?
> - D


I am using the pink stuff on my table. It DOES scratch and gouge easily. I am still in the construction phase, so I don't know how well this is actually going to work, but since I plan to landscape, I primed it and then put three coats of light brown latex paint on it. I figure that should keep most crashes from gouging into it.


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## roadrner (Jul 21, 1999)

Go ahead and bite the bullet on getting the Parmas. You won't be disappointed. 
:thumbsup: rr


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## Tycoarm (Jan 7, 2006)

I really like the design of your layout. It seems to flow well and theres not too many twisty's. You also gave yourself room for borders while giving yourself plenty of space for scenery and garage areas. 

Try not to make it completely flat, even if you add some slight elevation, it will add to the realisim of the course. The elevated area's don't need to be inches just some bumps here and there.

Ok now hop to it and keep us up on your progress.


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## Dslot (Sep 2, 2007)

Scafremon said:


> This track build thread could use a bump!
> Anything new on your build Dslot?


Mostly doing work on the scenery. Been building grandstands and a couple of pedestrian bridges and have been painting a bunch of figures for them (I am determined not to have those sad, empty stands that I see so often on slot tracks). I lucked out by finding a big bag of painted spectators from somebody's dismantled HO old-time circus-modeling project. Bleacher fodder. Lots of the women have sun-bonnets, so I'll either have to file them down, or paint them as hair and hope nobody looks too closely, or maybe just name the race "The Mennonite 500." Wonder if I could get a Tjet chassis under a 1-hp. black buggy?

Have plans and a perspective sketch of the main pits/grandstand/officials complex but no construction yet. Been playing with strings of white LED Christmas lights I got cheap from Hobby Lobby, for pit row lighting and straightaway lighting.

I've been researching ways to get better electrical control with the basic Tomy set controllers, and have a preliminary for a drivers' station that will let the driver dial in more or less low end/top speed. (Need to start a separate post on what people think about the electronics of that design.) Built a prototype Frankentroller by transplanting the windings from a Radio Shack 100-ohm ceramic resistor into one of the Tomy cheapo controllers. The result wasn't as great as I'd hoped, and I'm not sure I want to gamble on a set of jury-rigs for race day, anyway. Can't beat the price, though.

I try to dig something out of the storage warehouse to make the "around the tree" Christmas layout different each year. I was going to put a a Tomy test track around the tree this year and kill two birds with one stone, but got a sudden urge and set up the Lego lunar monorail instead, so our young "honorary nephew" (friends' kiddo) can help me build the scenery for it and have a non-frustrating time running it around. (It's really an amazingly well-engineered toy). 

Let's see, what else? Oh yes. Found a decent Hot Wheels "Beatnik Bandit" at the Police Dept. garage sale for a quarter, so I had to modify and paint up an Ed "Big Daddy" Roth figure to go with it as the honorary Grand Marshall of the race, plus a couple of bikini babes to accompany him. May have to build a rotating turntable for the "Bandit." And did up a Carrol Shelby figure to stand in the pits and watch the Cobras go by. (Yeah, I know, I'm stretching the period-setting a bit to get both of them in). Painting up personality figures helps take the boredom out doing all those spectators.

Not much hard progress in the car and track area since I took down the test layout, though. And haven't done _anything_ on the lap-counter/timer end of it. :freak: Better get busy. I hope to hold the event in February or March.
-- D
[There are supposed to be four pictures here, but they're not showing up in the preview. If you don't see any, give me a while to figure out how to get them into the message.]


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## Dslot (Sep 2, 2007)

twolff said:


> 90 Ohn Parma econ. controllers ... your hands will thank you. I replaced all my Tomy controllers as the throttle springs failed. Never going back.





roadrner said:


> Go ahead and bite the bullet on getting the Parmas. You won't be disappointed.


Thanks for the advice, guys. Everybody says how much better a good controller makes things, so I'm not worried about being disappointed. I'm more concerned with being impoverished. Already overran the budget for this event by buying two Tomy 4-lane sets to get good track to replace my old Lock-and-Joiner stuff. 

On the other hand, I'll probably end up spending $10-15 each on the drivers station parts and cases to enhance the range of the cheapo controllers (old Auroras or Tycos that I already have), and will still have crummy triggers. 

I'll give some more thought to upgrading the controllers.
-- D


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## Dslot (Sep 2, 2007)

Ted Bonehed said:


> I am using the pink stuff on my table...
> ... I primed it and then put three coats of light brown latex paint on it.


That's what I was thinking - after you get some tough paint or maybe grass mat on the foam, most of the gouging problem would be gone (fingers crossed). Also, I'll very seldom be running the magnet cars that have metal guide-pins and deslot so violently - it'll be mostly T-jets and AFX, with plastic pins and low deslot speeds. The foam sheet is just so handy that I really don't want to abandon the idea.
-- D


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## rudykizuty (Aug 16, 2007)

I like that you are incorporating famous personalities involved with the sport as part of the people in and around the race facility. Never heard of anyone doing that before. It's a really neat idea. 

I'm not good from an electronics standpoint, but I REALLY like the aesthetics of the driver's station mockups. Very functional, flexible and good looking.


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## Dslot (Sep 2, 2007)

Tycoarm said:


> I really like the design of your layout. It seems to flow well and theres not too many twisty's. You also gave yourself room for borders while giving yourself plenty of space for scenery and garage areas.


Thanks, Tycoarm. I ended up taking one of the curves out to get a longer back straight. It looked great on the trackplan, but just felt too cramped to drive.



> Try not to make it completely flat, even if you add some slight elevation, it will add to the realisim of the course. The elevated area's don't need to be inches just some bumps here and there.


You're reading my mind. That's one reason I wanted the track to go down from the main straight to the underpass instead of remaining flat. For a year I've been looking at routed tracks and wishing there was a way to get those smooth, natural-looking ups and downs and cambered curves without breathing a ton of router dust and winding up with a big permanent obstruction to navigation in the house. 

When i read in SCI's Routed Track forum that Luf (oldslotracer.com), the wizard of the routed course, had adopted a favorite of mine - the old Nurburgring - as the theme for his latest layout, I got a flash of envy and started to plan for some "flugplatz" undulations on the back straight. But then I realized that it would have the same effect on the feel of the course as the curve I had just removed.  One of the tradeoffs of having a small course - there's just not room for everything. But I'd still like to have some height variations on that straight, just for looks. Thought about using heat to warp a couple of 15" straight pieces into gentle humps and dips. Heck they're already warped to begin with, just in the wrong dimension.
-- D


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

Minor comment on the drivers station posts. If the white and red posts ever get shorted, say by an alligator clip, it's going to short out the power supply. I'm sure you've fused the main feed, but in general it's a good idea to keep those posts separated as much as possible. Using an "inney" post design and putting black in the middle is good for a little added insurance.


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## Dslot (Sep 2, 2007)

*Driver's Station*



rudykizuty said:


> ... but I REALLY like the aesthetics of the driver's station mockups. Very functional, flexible and good looking.


Thanks, Rudy. They're built into one of the experimenter's boxes that Radio Shack carries. The front surface is just a flat plate that I figured it would be easy to print out a computer-designed face for.

The heart of it is a 12-position rotary switch that has voltage-dropping diodes connecting the lugs. The more you turn, the more diodes are put between the power in and power out. Each one drops the voltage out by .7 volts for greater low-end response at the expense of top speed. The system is described here . I need to open up a new discussion thread to find out if anybody has experience with that system.


AfxToo said:


> ... it's a good idea to keep [the red and white] posts separated as much as possible. Using an "inney" post design and putting black in the middle is good for a little added insurance.


Many thanks, AfxToo, that's a crucial point. I'll change my drawings immediately.
--D
-- D


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