# it's working!



## Magesblood (May 12, 2008)

I know I've been posting a lot today and I apologize but I have to share:

I'm using the technique of dipping a needle in a pin vice into some CA and dusting with baking soda, brushing it off and filing and sanding immediately after brushing it off. 

Seems to be working very very well! The Martian War Machine is nearly seam-free as far as I can tell without priming it.

thanks for reading.


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## getter weevil (May 20, 2010)

why not mix the baby powder (talcum powder) with the CA glue?

I have done this many times it makes a paste you can put onto seams and then when is cures you can sand it smooth. If you mix the powder and CA together to does not cure as fast as straight CA. Give it a shot I think you will like the results.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Since baking soda is corrosive, I'd recommend the corn starch (c.99% of baby powder) as well. The high salt content may not hurt some models but just as a standard practice, I'd stay away from it.

Great to hear about the war machine! I've not used the paste method but have used super glue and accelerant quite a bit for seams.


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## getter weevil (May 20, 2010)

PerfesserCoffee said:


> Great to hear about the war machine! I've not used the paste method but have used super glue and accelerant quite a bit for seams.


You gotta try the paste. You got a few minutes to really work with it, but it is not nearly as fast as just superglue alone. Also its pretty strong and carves well. Filling a straight seam is good use for this method.

If I got to sculpt detail on the seam I use Aves instead.

I find accelerator for CA sometimes makes the CA much too brittle too quickly and creates a rough surface that need more work. But Accelerator has some good uses though.


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## enterprise_fan (May 23, 2004)

Sounds like a good way to do seams. Now if I only knew what CA was?


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## Magesblood (May 12, 2008)

*C*yano*a*crylate glue, better known as super glue.


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## Opus Penguin (Apr 19, 2004)

enterprise_fan said:


> Sounds like a good way to do seams. Now if I only knew what CA was?


Heh heh ... I was too afraid to ask myself. Glad to know now. I may have to try this method. Is this what was mentioned for the glow-in-the-dark Enterprise to remove the seams without having to putty?


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## getter weevil (May 20, 2010)

Opus Penguin said:


> Heh heh ... I was too afraid to ask myself. Glad to know now. I may have to try this method. Is this what was mentioned for the glow-in-the-dark Enterprise to remove the seams without having to putty?


The "paste" is typically and off in white color so I don't think it would blend in with glow in the dark plastic this method works best if you paint over the cured/dried paste. The "paste" mixing superglue (CA) with the baby powder (talc powder) is just a substitue for model putty in various situations. I don't use it all the time, but it is nice. Another plus is there is little or no shrinking of the paste after curing.


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## MykTurk (Nov 27, 2006)

DO NOT USE BAKING SODA!!! While it works short term, long term you WILL have problems, the baking soda will turn to kah kah over time, painted over or not. I can't speak one way or another on baby powder but I have first hand experince with the baking soda route and it's not pretty.


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## Opus Penguin (Apr 19, 2004)

Can anyone officially endorse the baby powder?


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## Paulbo (Sep 16, 2004)

Why not just hit it with accelerator instead of worrying about what powder to use?

As an alternative, I really like filling small seams with Tamiya primer. I then smooth it out with either sanding sticks (for surface fills) or a firm Qtip wet with rubbing alcohol (for tight angles).

One advantage of the primer version is that if you use Tamiya primer as your, well, primer, then everything matches and you're done once the seam is done.


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## getter weevil (May 20, 2010)

Opus Penguin said:


> Can anyone officially endorse the baby powder?


I have used it many times with baby powder (which should contain mostly talc or talcum in it)

I filled in all the seams on a few gundam models maybe 8-10 years ago now using this method of baby powder (containing talc or talcum powder) and superglue. many of the arms and legs on the gundam robots are in halves and the seams are numerous and this method helped to get really smooth seams after sanding. I sanded some of my pieces on some the gundam kits and had created some "divots" at the sprue jointing points. I filled the divots along the seams and resurfaced the part as smooth with no seam at all using this method as described.

I recommend using a scrap model and test it out for yourself if you are uncertain. Just mix a little bit as a test.

I am not sure about using cornstarch, but I think the baby powder has cornstarch and talc in it (I am not certain on the amounts though)


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## Magesblood (May 12, 2008)

I was under the impression that kicker really cured it, like rock hard but the baking soda would dry it but not rock hard.

I've seen many what I consider master modelers use the technique regularly. 






I mean, if it gets rid of the seam, I'm all for it. I think that the baking soda is just on the surface of the CA causing a reaction throughout so the stuff still in the seam is just pure CA.


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## Magesblood (May 12, 2008)

I'm just very excited about this and have been tackling all the tough seams on models since I got home from work this morning. Yeah, no sleep yet. :freak:


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

getter weevil said:


> You gotta try the paste. You got a few minutes to really work with it, but it is not nearly as fast as just superglue alone. Also its pretty strong and carves well. Filling a straight seam is good use for this method.
> 
> If I got to sculpt detail on the seam I use Aves instead.
> 
> I find accelerator for CA sometimes makes the CA much too brittle too quickly and creates a rough surface that need more work. But Accelerator has some good uses though.


You've sold me! I'll try that next time.:wave:


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

MykTurk said:


> DO NOT USE BAKING SODA!!! While it works short term, long term you WILL have problems, the baking soda will turn to kah kah over time, painted over or not. I can't speak one way or another on baby powder but I have first hand experince with the baking soda route and it's not pretty.


Reading this, I just checked 6 models, resin and plastic, that were done over one year ago, fully painted and finished, and none exhibit any signs of anything unexpected. Same goes for a few kits that have been in progress for over 2yrs. Nothing unexpected. Regular Arm and Hammer with dollar store superglue (aka 'The Original Super Glue'). I use this method regularly and with vigor. No probs I've seen yet. But I'll be watching for them from now on, certainly.
-----------------------------------------

I'm gonna keep the baby powder in mind. Is that standard J&J baby powder (as found here in the States)?


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## Magesblood (May 12, 2008)

^he's one of the masters I was alluding to.


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## Ductapeforever (Mar 6, 2008)

Superglue and Baking soda method has been known to develop mold in high humidity climates, when using this method do so when the humidity is low. This will ensure no reaction over time. The key to working this is to sand the seam being filled immediately as the mixture doesn't cure to full hardness for at least a few hours. If you wait to work the seam ,the freshly filled seam will be a harder material than the styrene around it making a clean seam nearly impossible. I have used this method for two decades and have had no problems whatsoever. Happy Modeling!


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

*Talc or corn starch?*

Baking soda is very reactive, it seems to me. The presence of salt means that any work done with metal (many of my models have metal screws or bolts used for stands) could cause problems with rust if nothing else. I'd rather go for something that is more inert. 

Talcum powder may be best from what I've read so far since it is mineral vs. being organic as is corn starch. 

Baby powder usually contains corn starch instead of talc. Also, pure corn starch is readily and cheaply available in the baking aisle of grocery stores. 

Does anyone know of any powder that is mostly talc? Got a brand name and where it can be found? 

From the internet:

*Talcum powder is composed of a mineral containing hydrated magnesium silicate. This substance is commonly known as talc. In loose form, this substance is known as talcum powder. It can be translucent and opaque or clear and lustrous. This property renders our face a shiny and glossy appearance after application of talcum powder. Other than talc, zinc stearate, magnesium silicates are also the active ingredients of talcum powder . . . 

Baby powders are comparatively mild. It is an astringent powder and contains either talc or cornstarch. It's a rare condition that baby powder contains talc. Baby powder is gentle as it is made up of pure cornstarch with some amount of zinc oxide or sodium bicarbonate. It also contains soothing natural ingredients like, chamomile, marshmallow and calendula extracts. It also contains kaolin, bentonite, rose extract and myrrh and slippery elm extract. Arrowroot powder, tapioca starch, oat starch, aloe vera, rose clay, lavender oil and vitamin E are also found in baby powders. All these ingredients make baby powders safe for use.*


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Paulbo said:


> Why not just hit it with accelerator instead of worrying about what powder to use?


That's what I've always done but they seem to showing some advantages over that method with the paste created with superglue and a powdery substance. 

I know I've had some problems with pure superglue before and watch out if you get called away for just a minute or have some other emergency or your CA will be dried rock hard and sanding it back down is a nightmare.:wave:


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## spideydroogy (Oct 15, 2010)

MykTurk said:


> DO NOT USE BAKING SODA!!! While it works short term, long term you WILL have problems, the baking soda will turn to kah kah over time, painted over or not. I can't speak one way or another on baby powder but I have first hand experience with the baking soda route and it's not pretty.


How long does it take to breakdown? I used baking soda and CA on a couple of seams of base pieces for my Revell Mummy buildup. I did the seams back in June but have not seen any sign of malfunction. If you have painted over it how does the damage show through? Does it crack or flake? Just curious what to look for.


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## getter weevil (May 20, 2010)

PerfesserCoffee said:


> Baby powder usually contains corn starch instead of talc. Also, pure corn starch is readily and cheaply available in the baking aisle of grocery stores.
> 
> Does anyone know of any powder that is mostly talc? Got a brand name and where it can be found?
> 
> ...


I will defer to your professorship on your internet fu, however...

Upon a cursory look at that the CVS (a drugstore chain) website for babypowder I found for the generic babypowder the primary ingredient listed is talc. My guess is that as long as there is some talc present in the powder you use it should be ok.

I can't give you a brand that I use since I just dumped a small amount of powder from someone I know into a small jar. They were using this talc powder to coat the inside of some molds for something they were casting.

The first sentence of one of thing you quoted from the internet said baby powder can contain talcum and corn starch. Then in the next sentence it says that having talc in babypowder is rare?? Not sure of your source, but I Would be confused by that. 

I would say if you have some babypowder around the generic type of stuff and not the fancy medicated powder it most likely has some talc in it which should be ok to try out this technique. 

As an aside completely off the topic do not use dried out coffee grounds as terrain for model base. I wanted to dip the base in my mug


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

getter weevil said:


> Upon a cursory look at that the CVS (a drugstore chain) website for babypowder I found for the generic babypowder the primary ingredient listed is talc. My guess is that as long as there is some talc present in the powder you use it should be ok.
> 
> . . . The first sentence of one of the things you quoted from the internet said baby powder can contain talcum and corn starch. Then in the next sentence it says that having talc in babypowder is rare?? Not sure of your source, but I Would be confused by that.
> 
> I would say if you have some babypowder around the generic type of stuff and not the fancy medicated powder it most likely has some talc in it which should be ok to try out this technique.


The quote seemed to be a good representation of many other things I'd read regarding the matter on the internet and I tended to believe the corn starch claim since the Johnson & Johnson brand baby powder here in the house shows "100'% corn starch" on the label. 

Hopefully, there are many readily available sources of talcum powder out there. I was wondering if there were any brands that we could rely on as being close to 100% talc.

I'll take a look at the drug store next time I can. It would be interesting to compare powder with 90+% talc to 100% corn starch.


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## g_xii (Mar 20, 2002)

Well, this is more of a general modeling technique discussion than having anything to do with Moebius Models. I'm moving it there. 

--Henry


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## bert model maker (Feb 19, 2002)

Paulbo said:


> Why not just hit it with accelerator instead of worrying about what powder to use?
> 
> As an alternative, I really like filling small seams with Tamiya primer. I then smooth it out with either sanding sticks (for surface fills) or a firm Qtip wet with rubbing alcohol (for tight angles).
> 
> One advantage of the primer version is that if you use Tamiya primer as your, well, primer, then everything matches and you're done once the seam is done.


Paulbo, are you talking about the tamiya liquid surface prime white ? I have a bottle of that unopened in my paint supply, how well does it work ( if this is the same stuff) with seams on the BIG seaview ?
Bert


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## Magesblood (May 12, 2008)

g_xii said:


> Well, this is more of a general modeling technique discussion than having anything to do with Moebius Models. I'm moving it there.
> 
> --Henry


thank you.


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## halcyon_daze (Jan 6, 2004)

Why not try Micro Balloons mixed in CA instead? It's designed as a filler and it will not react with styrene, attract mold, etc. and is highly sandable. It can also be mixed with other types of glues like epoxy. Although personally I prefer to avoid seams in the first place by using a solvent like Weld-On #3 or Tenax on assemblies where seams can be an issue.


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