# Storing 2 strokes



## RKDOC (Jun 20, 2006)

Got into an argument with a customer the other day. I am wondering what your feelings are? Should a two stroke engine be stored for the summer (ice auger) with treated gas in the fuel system? or drain the tank and run it out of treated gas? Thanks for your thoughts on this.


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## Sir Thomas (Dec 7, 2013)

All stored 2 cycle equipment should be drained, run till dry and a little bit of 2 cycle oil put in the cylindar through the sparkplug hole.
Even in a sealed fuel tank or in the carb itself, the fuel is vaporize leaving the oil. The oil does not return to it's original state after mixed with fuel so it becomes gummy. I've seen carbs that had deposits in the chambers that resemble laquer


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## OptsyEagle (Jul 17, 2007)

I have heard both sides to this argument and all seem to have some good points. I add fuel stabilizer and then run it out of gas. I doubt you can get all the gas or oil out of it by running it so I put in a little stabilizer to help with the residual, but I still like to get rid of as much fuel/oil as I can.


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## paulr44 (Oct 14, 2008)

We've tried both sides of this, and our current advice due to experience is to treat the fuel (as usual) when purchasing with a CURRENT ethanol directed additive, and run the engine dry. If long storage, even 4-stokes, should be fogged (with oil or similar preservative), left on TDC of the compression stroke to prevent moisture from getting in the engine (or bag the engine), and carburetor preferrably drained (diaphragm carbs you have to loosen the metering body screws and use low-pressure air to blow out any fuel remaining).

Very long storage, put desiccant bags/vials in with the engine within the bag. Jets and turbine engines get put in metal cylinders that split horizontally, with seals and 10 lbs. bags of desiccant.

Fogging an engine:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&.....1ac.1.34.heirloom-hp..0.20.1612.cXcz9Xh5OUQ


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## 30yearTech (Sep 14, 2006)

On units that are used infrequently, here is what I do and it works well for me. I no longer use standard fuel but instead purchase the pre-mix fuel. It contains no alcohol / ethanol and is good for 2 years. I have a 2 cycle Mantis tiller that I use maybe once or twice a year, sometimes not at all. 

3 years ago, I installed a new carburetor, fuel lines and filters. At this time I started using the pre-mix. I store it with fuel and every time since doing this, I have not had any issues starting it.


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## RKDOC (Jun 20, 2006)

Thanks for the replies. I have always run them dry of treated fuel. This customer stated that running them dry would ruin the diaghprams in the carb. I will keep doing what I have always done. 30 year, I have gone to the pre-mixed canned fuel for all my personal 2 stroke equipment, Works great.


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## hdman97 (May 25, 2006)

Premix is a little pricey isn't it?
I have been able to buy high test ,straight gas and then mix it and add
stable.Seems to work.


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## paulr44 (Oct 14, 2008)

30yearTech said:


> On units that are used infrequently, here is what I do and it works well for me. I no longer use standard fuel but instead purchase the pre-mix fuel. It contains no alcohol / ethanol and is good for 2 years. I have a 2 cycle Mantis tiller that I use maybe once or twice a year, sometimes not at all.
> 
> 3 years ago, I installed a new carburetor, fuel lines and filters. At this time I started using the pre-mix. I store it with fuel and every time since doing this, I have not had any issues starting it.


Senior moment, oops - I even use the canned premix at home for the same reason. *Probably the best solution as the diaphragms and fuel lines remain wet and won't get brittle over time as quickly.*


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## Sir Thomas (Dec 7, 2013)

paulr44 said:


> Senior moment, oops - I even use the canned premix at home for the same reason. *Probably the best solution as the diaphragms and fuel lines remain wet and won't get brittle over time as quickly.*


I think it depends on how and where people store them.


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## 30yearTech (Sep 14, 2006)

Sir Thomas said:


> I think it depends on how and where people store them.


Not really, more depends on the fuel used. Ethanol draws moisture out of diaphragms and seals in the carburetor, once exposed and then removed, you can encounter dried up stiff diaphragms and o rings and seals that shrink and then leak. 

The best thing if you can, is to avoid exposing the fuel system to ethanol. On units that are used on a regular basis, I have had pretty good luck with ethanol shield fuel additive, seems to work fairly well.

Ethanol is an oxygenated compound added to fuel to reduce emissions in older automobiles. It accelerates the breakdown of fuel and contributes to the formation of deposits in the fuel system, it also draws out moisture and is a primary cause of water in fuel and phase separation.


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## 30yearTech (Sep 14, 2006)

hdman97 said:


> Premix is a little pricey isn't it?
> I have been able to buy high test ,straight gas and then mix it and add
> stable.Seems to work.


It is pricey, but for units that are used infrequently, it's much cheaper then fuel system and carburetor maintenance.


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## Sir Thomas (Dec 7, 2013)

30yearTech said:


> Not really, more depends on the fuel used. Ethanol draws moisture out of diaphragms and seals in the carburetor, once exposed and then removed, you can encounter dried up stiff diaphragms and o rings and seals that shrink and then leak.
> 
> The best thing if you can, is to avoid exposing the fuel system to ethanol. On units that are used on a regular basis, I have had pretty good luck with ethanol shield fuel additive, seems to work fairly well.
> 
> Ethanol is an oxygenated compound added to fuel to reduce emissions in older automobiles. It accelerates the breakdown of fuel and contributes to the formation of deposits in the fuel system, it also draws out moisture and is a primary cause of water in fuel and phase separation.


I was only implying that improper storage accelerates the deterioration due to ethanol. It's better to store them AFTER you do everything already mentioned in a cool and clean area. Most are stored in aluminum sheds where there are extreme temperature changes.


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## paulr44 (Oct 14, 2008)

Sir Thomas said:


> I was only implying that improper storage accelerates the deterioration due to ethanol. It's better to store them AFTER you do everything already mentioned in a cool and clean area. Most are stored in aluminum sheds where there are extreme temperature changes.


FYI radical temperature shifts accelerate fuel degradation.


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## Sir Thomas (Dec 7, 2013)

paulr44 said:


> FYI radical temperature shifts accelerate fuel degradation.


I thought that was what I was saying.


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## 30yearTech (Sep 14, 2006)

Sir Thomas said:


> I was only implying that improper storage accelerates the deterioration due to ethanol. It's better to store them AFTER you do everything already mentioned in a cool and clean area. Most are stored in aluminum sheds where there are extreme temperature changes.


One again, not really! You would be amazed at the number of units I run across with water in the fuel tank. I am not talking trace amounts either. I find them with 2,3,4 or more ounces of water in the tank. These units are stored indoors in garages mostly. 

If you have ethanol in fuel and you do not keep the fuel cap on the container tightly closed and any vents closed, moisture can be drawn out of the atmosphere, particularly if you live in a high humidity area. 

In Central Texas even attached garages see temperature extremes daily. Like Paul said this accelerates the fuel degradation. During periods of non use, it's a good idea to periodically start the unit and let the fuel in the carburetor get used up and let fuel from the tank in. The temperature changes affect the fuel in the carburetor faster then the fuel in the tank.

Units need to be stored out of the weather, but a storage shed is fine. It's more important that smaller amounts of fuel are purchased and kept closed to the atmosphere to minimize the possibility of water absorption. 

Of course if you have a cool dry area to store your equipment in, that would be great.


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## Sir Thomas (Dec 7, 2013)

30yearTech said:


> One again, not really! You would be amazed at the number of units I run across with water in the fuel tank. I am not talking trace amounts either. I find them with 2,3,4 or more ounces of water in the tank. These units are stored indoors in garages mostly.
> 
> If you have ethanol in fuel and you do not keep the fuel cap on the container tightly closed and any vents closed, moisture can be drawn out of the atmosphere, particularly if you live in a high humidity area.
> 
> ...


I buy ethanol free gasoline and encourage those whose machines I work on to do the same.


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## hdman97 (May 25, 2006)

FleetFarm has a premix $7.59 a qt. Ouch........


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## Sir Thomas (Dec 7, 2013)

hdman97 said:


> FleetFarm has a premix $7.59 a qt. Ouch........


$4.08 a gallon here in Charlotte, NC


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## hdman97 (May 25, 2006)

Well that's not bad with gas at $3.60 a gallon,but 7 plus a QUART is insane.


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## 30yearTech (Sep 14, 2006)

If you live in an area that offers ethanol free fuel, that's great. Here in my part of Texas it's in all the fuel, so the pre-mix or canned fuel is the only option if you want ethanol free.


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## usmcgrunt (Sep 16, 2007)

Here is a site that shows ethanol free gas stations in all parts of the country. Most in my state are quite a distance from me.

http://pure-gas.org/


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## paulr44 (Oct 14, 2008)

NJ not even listed...by rights, we should be also able to buy TAX-FREE fuel for OPE equipment, as you can buy un-taxed diesel for off-road use. Guess I should write my senators etc.!!! Fuel tax is also called a ROAD tax in this state...but they still seem to need more money to fix the roads (despite registration fees also supposed to support new roads & repairs). Wonder where all that money goes!?


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## Rentahusband (Aug 25, 2008)

Sir Thomas said:


> I buy ethanol free gasoline and encourage those whose machines I work on to do the same.


I also have access to ethanol free gas at the pump. It is about .50 higher per gal, but it is well worth it. I also mention it to people that bring me stuff, but then I think if I keep doing that, I will not have as much to work on.


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