# Dry Transfers



## ThomasModels (Mar 8, 2000)

Some time back, I had a couple of film negatives made for photo-etch work. I discussed with the owner of the shop about dry transfers. He said that he has a printer in back that does them - *Real* dry transfers. The kind that you rub down onto a model surface, not some half-arsed attempt with wax paper on a home printer.

I have two refits I must assemble and paint. (I also just aquired the same paints used on the filming miniature, but that's another thread....) With the sheen of the pearlescent paints, I do not want to screw it up by applying water slide decals, then dull or gloss coat the model.

I have the files needed to make such dry transfers. Now the question is who else out there would like a set of dry transfers for their 1/350 refit model? These may not be cheap. I am estimating three colors, possibly printed separately, with only the name, numbers and the tiny red and black tech markings on the sheet.

Something else to consider is the graphics will be accurate. Only the actual filming model was referenced and would be used to create the layouts. The transfers will be correctly scaled to either the Refit or the Refit-A. (There is a difference in font, and size between the two ships.)

Each set of transfers may be around $20 - $30. This is only a guesstimate. The more sets I have run, the cheaper they will be. Right now I am looking to start with a few sets. If you are interested and willing to possibly fork over up to $30 per set, post here your interest. The final price will be based on the actual cost of the printed product, not greed.


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## spe130 (Apr 13, 2004)

I've never used dry transfers...what are the advantages and disadvantages? How hard are they to use? Do they stay down better than decals?


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## Nova Designs (Oct 10, 2000)

I'm definitely interested, Thomas. That has been one of the big worries I had for painting this model is that the decals would look cheap. Dry tranfers would be great!


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## MartinHatfield (Apr 11, 2004)

I am totally interested in getting a set of these from you Thomas.


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## Griffworks (Jun 24, 2002)

I'd be interested in a set, as well.


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

This is great news for us multi-sheen folks.

I can definitely see the advantage of not having to gloss the model beforehand, but I'm worried about durability afterward. I seem to recall that in the old Letraset days, some sort of protective coating was needed to allow handling of the final product. What's your opinion on the durability of these dry transfers? Even if I'm careful about handling, how about dusting the model afterward? Might an uncoated set of transfers attract dust?

Thanks ...


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## Boxster (Aug 11, 2005)

I used dry transfers for large RC planes especially the turbine powered ones. I don't know if all is the same but the dry transfer I used need no clear coating over and is fuel proof, permanent and matt. And yes, its multi coloured.

I would be interested too!

B


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## Ignatz (Jun 20, 2000)

Sounds good. I'm up for 3 sets.


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

Count me in for a set.

Have you considered doing a somewhat larger run and selling them on your website?

Of course, I'm not aware of what the unit costs would be for a volume discount. That could amount to a lot of $$ to front.


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## Steven Coffey (Jan 5, 2005)

I will take a set or two.


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## klgonsneedbotox (Jun 8, 2005)

I would be interested as well.


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## drewid142 (Apr 23, 2004)

2 sets for me!

Drew Huffman


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## JGG1701 (Nov 9, 2004)

I do believe that I may be interesd as well ! :thumbsup:


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## nebulaclass269 (Jun 29, 2000)

Sounds like a solution---I'd be in!!!


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## capt Locknar (Dec 29, 2002)

Count me in too but you should already know that lol


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## Owtw1997 (Jun 8, 2005)

I'd buy a set, too.

Al


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## Cloudwalker (Sep 25, 2004)

Thomas, if you could get these made, I would gladly get surgically altered with Klingon ridges, so that you could hand wash your delicates on my forehead on whites day. Count me in!


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## qtan (May 29, 2001)

You've got my interest! I'd be in for at least one set--Refit version, please.


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## The Trekmodeler (Jul 21, 2005)

Im in!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## TrekFX (Apr 15, 2004)

ThomasModels said:


> I am estimating three colors, possibly printed separately, with only the name, numbers and the tiny red and black tech markings on the sheet.


Can you get the secondary hull "penants" on there as well? :thumbsup:

I'm in for a set or two!


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## ThomasModels (Mar 8, 2000)

I will inquiry about getting one hundred run off.

The sheet will include all of those graphics hopefully, and will not be too large. If I squeeze evrything together, I should be able to make it fit.


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## Boxster (Aug 11, 2005)

How about dry transfer Aztec, heh heh heh!

B


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Sure, me too, why not.


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## Boxster (Aug 11, 2005)

But seriously! Dry transfer Aztec, that is!

B


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## MartinHatfield (Apr 11, 2004)

Boxster said:


> But seriously! Dry transfer Aztec, that is!
> 
> B


So, you want us to put it together for ya too there Boxter? Huh?


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## Boxster (Aug 11, 2005)

MartinHatfield said:


> So, you want us to put it together for ya too there Boxter? Huh?


Yeah, might as well! Getting a wee bit lazy here! :hat: 

B


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## drewid142 (Apr 23, 2004)

well as long as we're adding wish lists... can you get some good dry transfer details for the shuttle deck in there?


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## Tyboy4umodels (Apr 26, 2005)

What are Dry Transfers? Are they like the Rub-on decals that came with the first AMT Refit kit in 1979?


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## Gobocat (May 2, 2005)

I'm in for a set! WooHoo!


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

Tyboy4umodels said:


> What are Dry Transfers? Are they like the Rub-on decals that came with the first AMT Refit kit in 1979?


Yes, they are.


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## Tyboy4umodels (Apr 26, 2005)

Well I remember that the rub-on decals I had on my very first kit which was that Refit,well they lasted over 10 years before I had to replace them,and with Thomas doing them I am sure they will last more than 10 years,his decals Rock!


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## GLU Sniffah (Apr 15, 2005)

Tyboy4umodels said:


> Well I remember that the rub-on decals I had on my very first kit which was that Refit,well they lasted over 10 years before I had to replace them,and with Thomas doing them I am sure they will last more than 10 years,his decals Rock!


 No doubt if they were sealed ( and I assume you probably didn't seal the ones on your smoothie ?), they probably would have lasted longer than that even. 

I've used chartpak dry transfer generic letters on some of my bashes/experiments and once clear-coated were very durable. I've no doubt that would work here as well.


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## Tyboy4umodels (Apr 26, 2005)

Yea,I was 14 when I did that Model,and Mom did not let me use spray paint cans or paint when I did my few Models I did. But I did try to use a dull coat from Testors when I was 24 and the decals just evaporated when the dull coat hit them,so I redid them with water slide decals and sold the kit to a friend.


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## GLU Sniffah (Apr 15, 2005)

I hear ya. There wasn't much in the way of low-smell acrylics back in them days. We weren't much beyond Henry Ford's nitrocellulose lacquers come to think of it!!! ( *note* I exaggerate only _slightly_...  )

Today, one could seal with an acrylic-based coat and theoretically be safe!


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## Tyboy4umodels (Apr 26, 2005)

My Mom was just afraid I would use the paint for other things instead of Models,like my neighbors car or the cat. We had mean neighbors when I was growing up. But If I knew what I know now about Models,man I would have done a better job on that Smoothie. But I guess it is a learning experience.


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## GLU Sniffah (Apr 15, 2005)

Well, most of us _didn't_ know any better back then because the stuff was contemporary and had zero collector value. But today, _everything_ is collectable and _everyone_ seems to be a collector!

Back then people collected pretty much just stamps, rocks, coins, comics and bubble-gum cards. Ah...the " Dark Ages ".


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## John Duncan (Jan 27, 2001)

Count me in for a set as well.


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## NJFNick (May 22, 2004)

One set of refit transfers for me please........better have two actually!


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## Bay7 (Nov 8, 1999)

Meee toooo (two) pleeeease!


Mike


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

Thomas - 

I'd take two sets of the refit transfers. Thanks!


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## Prince of Styrene II (Feb 28, 2000)

Wow, this sounds pretty cool! And at that price, it's all good, too. Count me in for a set. Might be a nice Christmas present for myself. :hat:


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

I bet I even still have my old Letraset burnishing tool from art school.


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## scotpens (Sep 6, 2003)

GLU Sniffah said:


> I've used chartpak dry transfer generic letters on some of my bashes/experiments and once clear-coated were very durable. I've no doubt that would work here as well.


Does anyone still sell Chartpak or Letraset dry transfer lettering sheets? As a prepress production artist, I used to use those products extensively, but they've been rendered obsolete in the digital-typesetting age. None of the art supply stores in my area carry them any more.


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## GLU Sniffah (Apr 15, 2005)

^ That's a good question. I don't have an answer! I used my own decals/lettering sets a few years back and have not yet tried to replace them.

Chartpak Lettering

Apparently Chartpak doesn't sell direct from their website, but you can follow their locator link to possibly find a store near your location.

That's about the best I can do.


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## ProfKSergeev (Aug 29, 2003)

I would be interested in a set of dry transfers for my PL refit.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Last (and only) time I checked the Letraset website, they were hawking computer fonts. I couldn't find any rub-ons.


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

Did you check the left-side menu at http://www.letraset.com/row/Default.asp under "transfer graphics"? 

Not very satisfying, though.


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## schmidtjv (Apr 7, 2004)

Count me in for two sets!


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## Chris Pike (Jul 23, 2005)

Yes, I'd definately buy a set too, count me in. I also used Letraset a lot in the 70's, they are vastly superior (for model decals) to wet, being much, much thinner and thus more razor sharp. The tiny lettering should be much better resolved. Look forward to seeing them! Curious how the first "Lesney" kit used them...


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## justinleighty (Jan 13, 2003)

I'd be interested too.


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## ThomasModels (Mar 8, 2000)

There are some limitations on what can be done, from financial to mechanical. The more colors used on a single sheet, the greater the likely the transfer will have difficulty sticking to the sheet. It's life is also reduced with the more colors added per single sheet.

My initial layout had eight colors for the Refit-A, including the three tones of red. These reds are going to have to be changed to a single shade of red. At this point I am looking at four colors only.


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## Boxster (Aug 11, 2005)

So, this means no aztec transfers...?


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## Nova Designs (Oct 10, 2000)

LOL!


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## ThomasModels (Mar 8, 2000)

Here is a rough of both sheets:









I will take these separted new layouts in this week for print cost. Right now, the layouts consist of black, white, red, and silver.


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## Boxster (Aug 11, 2005)

That seals it, no Aztec!  

B


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

How about one aztec color per sheet? It should then be no problem to transfer them all properly registered ... :devil:


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

Is there a guide or FAQ somewhere on how to apply dry transfers successfully? I've never used them before.


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## ThomasModels (Mar 8, 2000)

If this come to fruition, there will be placement and application instructions included.


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

Cool. Thanks!


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

Looks great, Thomas!

Can't wait!


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## fluke (Feb 27, 2001)

Mine! Mine! Mine! Mine! Mine! Mine! ( movie quote?...naaaa )

*Sign me up Scotty!*

Thats one refit sheet for me as well! will that be *PayPal* or *Money Order?*


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## TrekFX (Apr 15, 2004)

ThomasModels said:


> Here is a rough of both sheets:


YOU are my HERO!

Thank you. You got the real-deal specs for artwork, nobody can touch that!

How fine is the resolution for small details like the nomenclature on either side of the docking ports? will it still be legible?

My tests using an ALPS to make dry transfers gave legible text at an INSANELY small size, you literally need a microscope or loupe to read it!


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## drewid142 (Apr 23, 2004)

Thomas... I think I already know the answer... but if one was willing to pay... could one get a set of dry transfers for the Deboer scale? I JUST got mine!


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## ThomasModels (Mar 8, 2000)

Drewid, part of the process for making these involves having film negatives made, one per color. Each one of those is $45. That's not very economical for running of one or two sheets.

Mike, I hope the resolution will be fine enough. I haven't gone to the shop yet to check it out. There is some very tiny text elsewhere on the sheet too. The personel hatches have some impossibly tiny text in the red pinstripe surround. I'm interested in seeing if those will be ledgible in this process!


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## Marco Scheloske (May 16, 2000)

Oh wow - that`s what I was waiting for. I want to get a set, please! So many problems solved with dry transfers instead of decals.

I used that stuff on my latest ZAKU, and the result looks fantastic!

Greetings from Germany
Marco


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## drewid142 (Apr 23, 2004)

*not ready to give up...*

Thomas... What if I got a few interested Deboer builders together... say I could order 10 sets... is it out of the question? Let's say $180 for the four films... build in your profit... what kind of price would make it possible to get a set of Deboer Dry Transfers... figuring we're in for a few grand already... why not sink in a little further to take it over the top?

By the way... for those of you who may be interested... Deboer Hulls is offering the Enterprise kit again. I just bought a used one, but I'm actually considering getting a new one too... obsession? I've got her sitting here on a construction stand and she is magnififreakincent! I've got 3 of Thomas' PL kits and they are totally outstanding! ...but the extra bit of scale in the Deboer kit is hard to describe. It's truely amazing. 

I'll be done with house construction in a few months and then I'll finally have a workshop. I've been planning for years to dive into my modeling projects. I hope to soon switch from a quirky question poster to a pics and videos poster!

www.drewhuffman.com


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## marc111 (Nov 10, 2005)

*Re the 350 Dry Transfer sets*

Thomas,
I would really like 2 sets as well.

Thanks for doing this,
Mark


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## jay_barnes (Apr 11, 2002)

I would definitely be interested purchasing two sets!!


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## spe130 (Apr 13, 2004)

I still don't know anything about using dry transfers (how hard they are to apply, what advantages/disadvantages they have compared to decals)...but I think I might be in for a set of each. I'm assuming that the _Enterprise_ and _Enterprise-A_ sheets will each have enough markings for the whole ship (unlike the kit decals, which are either/or with both ship registries).


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## Marco Scheloske (May 16, 2000)

spe130 said:


> I still don't know anything about using dry transfers (how hard they are to apply, what advantages/disadvantages they have compared to decals)...


The use is very easy: Just place them on the designated area, rub them on, done!

No carrier film, no silvering. Quick and easy.

Greetings from Germany
Marco


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

... the only downside with dry transfers is that you can't re-position them. Before you start rubbing, you must have them in final position. 

It's often a good idea to cut out the sheet around the transfer, tape the sheet in position lightly, check it, move it if necessary, _then _ only do the rubbing once you're convinced it's in final position.


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## jbond (Aug 29, 2002)

I would love a set as well. What are these going for now?


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## capt. bob (Sep 27, 2005)

hi thomas i'd be interested in your dry transfers for the 1/350 enterprise let me know thanks, bob


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## aridas sofia (Feb 3, 2004)

I'm in for a set as well, *Thomas*. But I'm curious -- I know *Andy Probert* told me those letters were red, white and _dark blue_. not black. Do you have other information, or is the black a necessary compromise because of the process being used?


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## ThomasModels (Mar 8, 2000)

You may be thinking about the *Enterprise-D, Aridas*. The decal sample and all images I have, including extremely tight close ups, show the text to be printed in black, outlined in red and printed on a white background on the *refit Enterprise-A*.

The printing process is by solid color for the *dry transfers*. There are no half tones. If the black areas are printed in dark blue, then all black would be dark blue or an additional color plate would be needed. Also I may have to loose all of the tiny tech markings as those may fall apart or be burned away during the negative and plate making process.

I'll ask *Andy* about those colors and run the reference I have past him to double check.


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## aridas sofia (Feb 3, 2004)

Make sure you do. I consulted my notes from an early 1980s phone conversation I had with him, and they did in fact say the letters on the *TMP* ship were dark blue. If he says differently now, I must have misunderstood him back then.

Notice I'm saying the *TMP* ship -- I don't know what they did when they repainted and relettered that model.


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## Nova Designs (Oct 10, 2000)

Dark blue, or black... I don't think it will really matter since on screen the text always looks black. And also in every photo I have ever seen of the model--and I've seen a lot of them. There are very few color images of the TMP ship, and most of them are in stage lighting, not in bright white light where you'd be able to clearly see. So its really impossible to tell. 

In any case I'd prefer to have them black as that's how I've preceived them for all these years. Plus it will keep the costs down for these transfers.


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## aridas sofia (Feb 3, 2004)

Hey...whatever he does is fine. I was just supplying the information in an effort to help, assuming that if people are going to go to all that effort to get the paint job right they'd like to know what the lettering _really_ looked like. I'd hate to have known they were blue and kept silent only to see regrets from *Thomas* and others later when the things are done and if it is discovered the letters were blue. I'm sure if I spoke up _then_ there would be plenty of complaints.


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## Nova Designs (Oct 10, 2000)

aridas sofia said:


> Hey...whatever he does is fine. I was just supplying the information in an effort to help, assuming that if people are going to go to all that effort to get the paint job right they'd like to know what the lettering _really_ looked like. I'd hate to have known they were blue and kept silent only to see regrets from *Thomas* and others later when the things are done and if it is discovered the letters were blue. I'm sure if I spoke up _then_ there would be plenty of complaints.




Sure I know what you mean. And in a lot of cases of accuracy its important. I'm just not sure that this is one of those times, that's all. :wave:


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## ThomasModels (Mar 8, 2000)

Sure it is!

Andy has confirmed that they were and are printed in dark blue, which he carried over to the 1701-D markings. I checked with a 1701-D decal sheet for the studio model and it is indeed printed in dark blue. The sample and image files I have of the refit-A appear to be run in black.

Thanks for the heads up, Aridas! 

I spoke with the printer today also. Two colors is doable, three is pushing it, but four colors on a single sheet get tricky. It isn't the printing, but the user's ability to successfully rub them down. Also, any line width below one point can be difficult to accurately print and rub down succesfully, so the tiny tech markings from the proposed layout may not be doable.

Right now I am looking at one three color sheet with the name and main NCC numbers, a smaller sheet with the black text and a third sheet of silver insignia per decal set.


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## Nova Designs (Oct 10, 2000)

Well that's cool Thomas.  However you want to do it, I'm sure it will be great. Interesting that the text was blue. I wonder why that isn't more commonly known?


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## ThomasModels (Mar 8, 2000)

I'm having trouble grasping the concept also. I am reworking both layouts to accomodate them being printed in red-white-blue and it doesn't look right. Like you, I am so used to seeing them as black. I was told ALL text everywhere on the model was actually a specific PMS dark blue color.

The decal I have on the 1701-D miniature also has 1701-A markings on it. They are printed in red outlined blue text on white. There is also black text on the smaller names and NCC numbers on this sheet.

I can see doing the NCC and name in blue, but all the other stuff _looks_ odd in blue. I _know_ the 1701-A version was black, at least on all the tiny tech markings, smaller names and NCC numbers.

I'm not sure which color would be the way to go.


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## REL (Sep 30, 2005)

Thomas,Those look incredible. Do you think they would work for my project? I've used dry transfers in the past and I think they're superior to wetslide decals.


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## aridas sofia (Feb 3, 2004)

ThomasModels said:


> I can see doing the NCC and name in blue, but all the other stuff _looks_ odd in blue. I _know_ the 1701-A version was black, at least on all the tiny tech markings, smaller names and NCC numbers.
> 
> I'm not sure which color would be the way to go.


I think it's just a matter of getting used to it. You've seen more reference images of that model than most and you thought the lettering was black -- that's the way it read on film, so you're _very_ used to the idea they were black. I know it is only the rare image here and there that captures the blue -- one I recall was a top view of the big _Reliant_ model (yes, I believe they used blue there as well).

I guess it's like the gold command tunic -- depict it as the green that it was and it looks wrong. 

Maybe one way of looking at it is to decide whether you are depicting the image onscreen, or the model used to make those images. One looks like it has black lettering, the other has blue. 

Whichever way you go, you're right (and, I suppose, wrong...)


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

I'm building an onscreen version so I'd like to see black, personally. 

It could be looked at as a model of the Starship Enterprise "character", not the miniature "actor in stage makeup".


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## spe130 (Apr 13, 2004)

I wonder if the dark blue wasn't done for color correction reasons - so that it would show up properly black on-screen.


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

Didn't they shoot it in front of a "blackscreen" instead of a bluescreen in TMP? I thought I read that somewhere... Maybe that's why they had to tint the lettering??? Just guessing there...


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## Nova Designs (Oct 10, 2000)

ThomasModels said:


> I'm having trouble grasping the concept also. I am reworking both layouts to accomodate them being printed in red-white-blue and it doesn't look right. Like you, I am so used to seeing them as black. I was told ALL text everywhere on the model was actually a specific PMS dark blue color.


Was that reflex blue?



ThomasModels said:


> I can see doing the NCC and name in blue, but all the other stuff _looks_ odd in blue. I _know_ the 1701-A version was black, at least on all the tiny tech markings, smaller names and NCC numbers.
> 
> I'm not sure which color would be the way to go.


See that's the issue for me... The markings _look_ black on screen in all the movies. They _look_ black in 99% of the images we've seen, every other model of this kit has had black decals. Even though we have new information that the text was actually blue, does that make it more desirable to do the markings that way? 

For me, not really. Its always looked black... in fact I'm thinking the intention _was_ to look black, like someone mentioned for color correction reasons or something. That makes sense to me. I think in the type of setting the model kit will be seen blue markings just wouldn't look right, unless the blue is _SO_ dark that it would be mistaken for black in 99% if the situations.

Reflex blue is pretty dark, but still quite blue. There are darker ones. Maybe a compromise Thomas... go through a Pantone book and find the absolute darkest, near-black blue you can find and go with that. I have a Pantone book and could suggest a few numbers if you want. :thumbsup:


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

Midnight Blue or black. It really doesn't matter to me. It's basically a "cool" black, anyway.
They look so close, for the most part. Whatever works best for you without compromising your setup, Thomas.


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## sbaxter (Jan 8, 2002)

Nova Designs said:


> Reflex blue is pretty dark, but still quite blue. There are darker ones.


I was thinking maybe PMS 282 for the refit. I wouldn't be surprised if those on some of the newer ships were reflex blue.

Qapla'

SSB


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## ThomasModels (Mar 8, 2000)

Spe130 said:


> I wonder if the dark blue wasn't done for color correction reasons - so that it would show up properly black on-screen.





Krako said:


> Didn't they shoot it in front of a "blackscreen" instead of a bluescreen in TMP? I thought I read that somewhere... Maybe that's why they had to tint the lettering??? Just guessing there...


 I think it's more likely they were printed dark blue so that there would not be such a stark contrast between the markings and the white hull paint. They may have looked 'punched out' if they were truely black.

I checked the rubdowns in the AMT kit, and they are black. The tiny stuff seems to have printed intact also. 

281 is the number I was told that the original TMP had used. It looks a little light on my screen, but prints rather dark. I would lean toward 282, but at this scale 281 should work fine. Aside from that I have no intention on second guessing first hand information from the ship's designer. Check out the AMT/Ertl 1701-D decal. All of the 'black' text on that sheet is printed in 281 and looks pretty dark.


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## Tholian (Oct 3, 2004)

Be sure to add me to a set to Thomas.


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## Nova Designs (Oct 10, 2000)

Well comparing in my Pantone books (uncoated [flat], and coated [gloss]) and 281 is clearly a blue, not close to black to my eyes. Its dark, yes, but even in dim light its blueness is apparent. Keep in mind anything you see on a computer screen or on your home printer is going to be VERY off from the real Pantone mix. 15 years in advertising and graphic design experience speaking here. 

Hey, if that's the color that's the color.... but its noticable blue and not black. Just passing on my observations.

Will these rubdowns be glossy or flat? The flat colors are less rich and therefore less dark. The glossy 281 blue would "fake" black much better.

Oh, BTW I compared the Enterprise D decals to my Pantone coated book and they fall somewhere in between Relfex blue and Pantone 280... a "shade" and a half lighter than you're shooting for here.

I'll still buy a set or two from you, Thomas. I'm just finding this all interesting.


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## Cloudwalker (Sep 25, 2004)

As stated on page one, I'm still in for a set regardless of the color. I want my ship to be studio acurate, but if you decide to stick with black, I am more than happy with that. I just want dry transfer so I can have a multi-texured paint scheme.

And it's common practice in the film industry (at least it used to be) to never use true black, as it just doesn't photograph well. For instance, the Batmobile used in the '89 Tim Burton film was in fact painted a very dark green. Had the car been painted black, it just would have been a shapless void moving across the screen, especially in the dark environment it was filmed in. And it's very dark in space............and cold.


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## SFCOM1 (Sep 3, 2002)

Count me in for a set as well Thomas. I have a refit that is just waiting for a reall good set of decals! 

John Nelson 
sfcom1


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## jgoldsack (Apr 26, 2004)

I would be in for a couple sets. I have 2 refits, and I would love to not have to gloss the model to decal it....


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## ThomasModels (Mar 8, 2000)

Nova Designs said:


> Hey, if that's the color that's the color.... but its noticable blue and not black. Just passing on my observations.


That's the color.




> Will these rubdowns be glossy or flat?


I am assuming neither. The 'ink' is silicon based and when printed onto the release film, it comes out as a semi gloss. Or so I was told. I really won't know until I have a sample.

I am looking to have printed 200 sheets of each which will yield 400-600 sets total.


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## ThomasModels (Mar 8, 2000)

I've set the graphics a little further apart. I was told that the very tiny tech marking probably won't work, so those have been removed. The TMP Refit has a few for the engine nacelles placed in the layout as 'filler'.










The sheets will be printed in three colors, plus a supplemental sheet that will contain the silver arrow insignias. Each sheet will be available separately, TMP and Refit-A versions.

Any suggestions?


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## aridas sofia (Feb 3, 2004)

As far as I can tell from the images, they look fabulous.


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## REL (Sep 30, 2005)

I can't wait to see how they look on a model.


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## Prince of Styrene II (Feb 28, 2000)

Looks great to me! :thumbsup:


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## Cloudwalker (Sep 25, 2004)

Thomas, do we have a "when" and "how much" available yet?


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## ThomasModels (Mar 8, 2000)

I do not.

I made the initial layout to get a price quote on and was told that the there may be problems with the tiny stuff when I dropped it off. A new layout later and we are one step closer. This layout will very likely be the one we have printed.

I may hear something next week. I've been eye-lid deep in two projects right now and the shop owner is hard to get to. Of course he is the only one who can give me a price on sets by the hundreds. When I am able to contact him, we will get a price nailed down and start the run. It may not cost as much as I thought per sheet, but the set-up charges, negatives and the cost of the mass run will be where the big bucks come in.

I was told yesturday that the rubbed down transfers are not glossy or matte finish, but in between. After they are applied, they are permanent. I understand the transfers are primarily used on window glass as in logos, store hours, etc on some storefront doors. Hopefully they will be as durable on painted plastic model kit surfaces, but I do not foresee any problems.


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## fluke (Feb 27, 2001)

What will happen if Uncle Oloff comes over, drinks too much and while he is playing Capt kirk and the evil aliens poor beer all over your newly dry transfered Enterprise?


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## CaptFrank (Jan 29, 2005)

> What will happen if Uncle Oloff comes over, drinks too much and while he is playing Capt kirk and the evil aliens, *poor * beer all over your newly dry transfered Enterprise?


"pours"


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## spe130 (Apr 13, 2004)

Yep, I'm in for a set for the Refit and the Alpha ... now I just need to get another kit!


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## capt Locknar (Dec 29, 2002)

CaptFrank said:


> "pours"


"POOR Refit"


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

Thomas, hard to tell definitively from the small image, but that color of blue looks pretty cool! Thanks for doing this. I can't wait to get my hands on a couple of sets of these!


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## fluke (Feb 27, 2001)

Pour me :freak: 

I wasn't drinking....It was late and I was coming down from a ebay adrenaline rush....You all know what I mean!


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## Flux Chiller (May 2, 2005)

Once again an awesome posting, good to here Andy Probert involved at the fringes on this colour business...

Curious how even in the full flash archive photos the lettering looks so black. Yet I just opened a random image into photoshop and sampled a few areas. It ranges through a whole plethora of blues for sure. The first pixel I clicked on was actually pantone 289! 
So I am ok with this blue thing and putting my name down for a set, but with the caveat it had better look like black when it comes out ;-) 

Good work Thomas, very good work...


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## whattim (Nov 21, 2005)

Greetings. I was online looking at Dry Rub Transfer applications and I found your board. I would be happy to help you guys with creating the actual transfers. I work for a company that makes custom transfers, and I would like to help your group. I would also like to do some testing with you too. I can help you recreate the actual colors with upto 6 colors. So you do not have to compromise the integrity of your replicas.

Please understand that this is not a sales picth, but more along the lines of a partnership. I am a Navy veteran and when I saw the transfer sheet, it reminided me of the guys who built models when we were out to sea. And since it was an aircraft carrier, USS CVA-67, USS John F. Kennedy, there were lots of Birds being worked on...

Hace a spirited day.
peace
mit


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## Nova Designs (Oct 10, 2000)

Hey Thomas, how do the Impulse Engine transfers work? Are the black only with transparent areas for lighting or is it a white background?

I can't wait to grab a few sets of these!


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## capt Locknar (Dec 29, 2002)

Looks like they will be grey for the powered down look


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## ThomasModels (Mar 8, 2000)

Just black lines, like the kit's water slide decal. No white backer or fill color.


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## fluke (Feb 27, 2001)

Howdy Whattim! :wave: Welcome aboard!

This project may be too far along for changes but it never hurts to ask?

I always wondered if some crewmen built model kits on ships that are out for long periods?


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Nova Designs said:


> See that's the issue for me... The markings _look_ black on screen in all the movies. They _look_ black in 99% of the images we've seen, every other model of this kit has had black decals. Even though we have new information that the text was actually blue, does that make it more desirable to do the markings that way?
> 
> For me, not really. Its always looked black... in fact I'm thinking the intention _was_ to look black, like someone mentioned for color correction reasons or something. That makes sense to me. I think in the type of setting the model kit will be seen blue markings just wouldn't look right, unless the blue is _SO_ dark that it would be mistaken for black in 99% if the situations.


My initial thought is that the blue was done for scale reason. Colors appear less intense at scale distance and a blue may help to convey that.


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## ThomasModels (Mar 8, 2000)

The price quote and manufacturing details have come in. Start saving your pennies. $243 production cost. The retail product would then be $486 per sheet, plus shipping!

The process is one done by hand, at least with the two print shops I have spoken with, hence the incredibly inflated cost.

Mike E, if you have any ideas, now would be the time! Apparently, the few who can make these, make them all the same way, one sheet at a time by hand.

I hate to say it, but time for a trip to China. I will put in inquires with an agent over there and wait for the cost bids on the job. I wouldn't hold my breath.


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## Nova Designs (Oct 10, 2000)

*HOLY CARP!!!!* :freak:


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## Prince of Styrene II (Feb 28, 2000)

um... yea.


What he said.

<faints>


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## Tholian (Oct 3, 2004)

I guess I can only afford the NCC. Thanks!


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## capt Locknar (Dec 29, 2002)

"Ron Weasley Voice" BLOODY HELL

I am in the wrong business.


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## spe130 (Apr 13, 2004)

:freak:


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## CaptFrank (Jan 29, 2005)




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## marc111 (Nov 10, 2005)

Are you surte thats the per sheet cost Thomas? I mean at a $10/hr labor rate that means that they are saying it takes one person 3 days of a single shift just to print one sheet. That doen't make a lot of sense to me.


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## TrekFX (Apr 15, 2004)

ThomasModels said:


> The price quote and manufacturing details have come in. Start saving your pennies. $243 production cost. The retail product would then be $486 per sheet, plus shipping!
> 
> The process is one done by hand, at least with the two print shops I have spoken with, hence the incredibly inflated cost.
> 
> Mike E, if you have any ideas, now would be the time! Apparently, the few who can make these, make them all the same way, one sheet at a time by hand.


Tom, I did a lot of research into custom transfers for the old 1/5xx ERTL kit, as well as R&D into using an ALPS to create transfers which gave sometimes stellar (and sometimes lousy) results.

I'm still in the middle of moving... actually I'd damn well better be getting close to the end as (Scotty accent) my back can't take the strain much longer!

These people you're speaking with are probably using a process called Chromatec. It's labor-intensive, thus the high quote.

I'm near positive you can get a better price than that from firms specializing in dry tranfers. The initial art and tooling/screens might be an investment, but the cost per sheet will be a helluva lot lower. If you can hang in there... :wave:


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## CaptFrank (Jan 29, 2005)

> The retail product would then be $486 per sheet, plus shipping!


How much would it cost to hire someone to just paint the 
labels on the ship?


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## fluke (Feb 27, 2001)

OUCH! No big surprise though.....

I called and e-mailed just about everyone in the U.S. and the UK for only 4 small one color images on one 4X6" sheet for my 1/6th George Pal TIME MACHINE and I got 150.00 to 300.00 quotes! 

*Thanks for the HUGE effort, you gave it a BIG shot and lotz of your time was spent in doing so.*


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## REL (Sep 30, 2005)

Holy overpriced decals Batman!


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## spe130 (Apr 13, 2004)

Umm...somebody had to have printed the ones in the original AMT Smoothie Refit for a reasonable cost...


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## capt Locknar (Dec 29, 2002)

Back then they were probably done in house.

and "greed" wasn't as big a factor back then as much as it is now. 

My dad used to do this kind of stuff back in the 60's and 70's and I'll get a hold of him and see whats involved with making them and what equipment is needed. I'll see what I can round up on my 50 dollars surplus a month lol.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

If nothing else, we can get some blue lettered waterslide decals out of this, eh?


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## spacecraft guy (Aug 16, 2003)

Remember an article in Fine Scale Modeler about a modeler who did a scratchbuild of Thunderbird 1 and had dry transfer decals made at a professional photo shop - they were just the white lettering on the ship, and according to the article the job of photographing the original artwork and producing the transfers was about $40. This was quite a while ago, though.


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## spe130 (Apr 13, 2004)

Cap'n...even so, they still had to be able to turn a profit on those smoothies...and they sold tons of 'em.


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

I've been using Woodland Scenics, Zipatone and Letraset dry transfers for decades. Everything from Block Gothic lettering to colored pinstriping and everything in between. They go for anywhere from $2 to $5 or more per sheet. Of course, these are mass-market products with tens of thousands printed. But, I imagine that there are shops that can produce Thomas' layouts for far less than he was quoted for the size and quantity that he was needing.

I'll do some snooping around and see what I can come up with.


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## Chris Pike (Jul 23, 2005)

Try these:

http://www.blackhamtransfers.com/Blaqfaqs.html

http://www.letraset.com/us/template3.asp?catid=3452


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

I did some searching and came up with this possible solution:

http://www.pulsar.gs/DECALS/a_Pages/1_MENU/1b_Overview/Overview.html

I haven't contacted them, yet. Has anyone else tried this? It looks intriguing.


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## spe130 (Apr 13, 2004)

Any word on these yet? At the rate it's going, we'll get them about the time I actually get around to working on my Refits... :tongue:


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