# Lower Level for Moebius J-2??



## fortress (Apr 1, 2006)

With the Moebuis J-2 finally release and I am sure
everyone can agree it was well worth the wait the 
point I wish to bring up here is has anyone considered
producing a lower level add-on kit to accompany the
J-2? Maybe a cutaway version or Clear upper and lower
hulls to show the kit off?

I think this would put it over the top.

fortress:thumbsup:


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

Ehhhhhhhhhh I can't see it. For one, making a new clear hull would be $$$$$$ and its been discussed here before - not practical. As for the lower level... it won't fit. Thats one of the many things wrong with the old PL kit. There is no room for it. If you have the Moebius kit, just look at how the floor fits in place.


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## scotpens (Sep 6, 2003)

On the old Polar Lights kit, the only way to make the lower level fit was to do it in half-scale! The lower deck living quarters were perfectly sized -- for a family of midgets.


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## Ductapeforever (Mar 6, 2008)

Beating A Dead Horse again I see..........


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## Seaview (Feb 18, 2004)

Theoretically, it IS possible to scratch build a lower deck for the Moebius Jupiter 2 using the same method as PL, reducing the scale by roughly half.
Remove the landing gear bays and open up the lower view port so you can actually see the interior.
But I'm not gonna be the first to attempt it.


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## WmTodd (Feb 11, 2010)

One thing you're going to notice when you open up that lower level view port is that the floor for the upper level crosses it. I was considering it, as well as creating the upper half of the lower level, as you'd never really be able to actually see the floor through the viewport. Too problematic, though. Maybe for an "in-flight" variation of the J2, but there'd still be that one little issue of the upper level's floor.


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## JeffG (May 10, 2004)

Don't forget that huge storage room full of crates, an area for the Chariot, the Pod and the interior for the Power Core.


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## Seaview (Feb 18, 2004)

Plus Dr.Smiths' wardrobe.


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## WmTodd (Feb 11, 2010)

:lol: And all his props, such as bowling paraphernalia, artist easel, vaudevillian stage play props, etc etc etc.... :lol:


If the J2 were to be reimagined, I could easily see three levels....the top two floors occupying the upper portion of the hull, with not only staterooms and galley, but a lounge/living area by the viewport, an infirmary.... and the lower section being the garage/ramp for the chariot, the hangar/port for the pod, a storage/machinery workshop, a research lab, etc....

ANd keep the thing looking like the J2, not a cavernous rave flyer in motion, like the movie.


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## astro123 (Nov 22, 2008)

I'm a regular reader but rare poster but I have an idea that's been rolling around my head for some time and would like to put it out here. I don't think I've seen it here, or any where for that matter, but has anyone considered doing a lower J2 deck in a plausible sort of way? I mean that in instead of doing it in the Iwrin Allen way (cramming in state rooms, a dining room, etc.) on the lower deck) put in a large fusion core, fuel cells, conduits, piping, the charriot, modular housing panels, food stores, water tanks, etc. for the new life. Cram it in there like NASA does!

After all, were not they in stasis tubes until they arrived to their new home? why would they need living quarters aboard the J2 if they were going to colonize another planet? Maybe even put cargo crates on the upper deck. 

I would like to see it, even if on paper. My modeling skills and time allowance are not up to the job but I know there are people here who are very capable. It's just a thought. ss


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## skinnyonce (Dec 17, 2009)

astro123 said:


> After all, were not they in stasis tubes until they arrived to their new home? why would they need living quarters aboard the J2 if they were going to colonize another planet? Maybe even put cargo crates on the upper deck.
> 
> 
> I always just thought that when they "did arrive" at the new planet they would need to sleep somewhere, untill something more permanent could be constructed.. those tubes would not cut it for long after there arrival,
> ...


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## Xenodyssey (Aug 27, 2008)

Let face it, the Jupiter 2 was really a TARDIS in disguise...


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## charonjr (Mar 27, 2000)

With the technology they had: a washing machine that delivered clothes pressed and plastic wrapped; a robot that could transmute matter with the wave of a claw; ftl technology, even though they stuck to under light speed for a 5 year trip: the various space-time warping fields would likely allow exactly a TARDIS effect. And they found someway to keep it working even when power wasn't applied, perhaps an effect built in superconducting structures within the ship itself....


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

Ever wonder HOW they were going to colonize? Does each family get a Jupiter class spaceship and you end up with a large gene pool on an alien planet, or were the kids expected to interbreed for future colonists? I know Don could probably pitch in, but anyway you think about it is slightly creepy...

.


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## Dar (Apr 20, 2007)

Ductapeforever said:


> Beating A Dead Horse again I see..........


I dont see how this is a dead horse. The only way it becomes a dead horse is that some refuse to discuss the topic beyond the "it wont fit" realm. We all know that the interior scaled in relation to the studio sets wont fit the J2. I dont think thats what the op is asking. Im sure hes well aware that the scale of the J2 is not consistant between the studio sets, and the various exterior models. Not many sets of anything back in the 1960's could really work between their interior and exterior counterparts. It was all about the illusion of it working.

I see no problem with someone either wanting to make a smaller scale representation of the lower level in their model (a photo would actually probably be the best way to go though, which could be seen through the lower level viewport)or even redoing the entire upper level and making a reasonable facismile of the entire interior (sans power core, it was only in one ep and season one established that the J2 had two levels so we can ignore it. ) with a new scale and some slight exterior modifications. It can be done. I wouldnt try it but a good scratch builder can do it. Heck a nice small engine room can be put behind the lower level walls. I think theres an ep with John in another representaion of the engine room in S3. It was a smaller room with some of that silver painted corrugated cardboard piping they always used. 

I have seen many blueprints of both levels fitting just fine with some minor alterations to the interior scale and the exterior hatch and window.

Afterall its all about the look of the ship. If someone wants to try to make a two level representation of the J2 I see nothing wrong with it. I also see nothing wrong with discussing the topic. Again with slight modifications I think someone could make a fully interiored J2 that closely resembles what Iriwin Allen had on LIS. But one that actually is scaled properly.


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## Seaview (Feb 18, 2004)

What it boils down to is this; if someone REALLY wants to, they can build a 1/35 scale lower deck to be topped by the existing Moebius flight deck and upper hull, but NOT with the lower hull and fusion core. A "crashsite" diorama would make this possible, with the lower deck beneath the ground surface and the upper hull (opened hatch & airlock)/flight deck being removable in order to see the staterooms, galley, lab and lower hull flight controls.
Come to think of it, I half expect that unknown Japanese blogger whose workmanship we've all been drooling over to do exactly that next.


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## Dar (Apr 20, 2007)

Seaview said:


> What it boils down to is this; if someone REALLY wants to, they can build a 1/35 scale lower deck to be topped by the existing Moebius flight deck and upper hull, but NOT with the lower hull and fusion core. A "crashsite" diorama would make this possible, with the lower deck beneath the ground surface and the upper hull/flight deck being removable in order to see the staterooms, galley, lab and lower hull flight controls.
> Come to think of it, I half expect that unknown Japanese blogger whose workmanship we've all been drooling over to do exactly that next.


I bet he could do what I suggested above if he really wanted to. That guys work is seamless.


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

Wasn't there a member already working on a dio like that earlier?

.


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## Fernando Mureb (Nov 12, 2006)

*Mental synchronization.*



Seaview said:


> What it boils down to is this; if someone REALLY wants to, they can build a 1/35 scale lower deck to be topped by the existing Moebius flight deck and upper hull, but NOT with the lower hull and fusion core. A "crashsite" diorama would make this possible, with the lower deck beneath the ground surface and the upper hull (opened hatch & airlock)/flight deck being removable in order to see the staterooms, galley, lab and lower hull flight controls.
> Come to think of it, I half expect that unknown Japanese blogger whose workmanship we've all been drooling over to do exactly that next.


Hey seaview
Take a look at this thread/post:
http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?p=2978901#post2978901

Note: the Jupiter II drawing in the diagram image is by RSN.


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## aeryn43 (Sep 23, 2009)

There is a way to make both levels fit....fudge the scale a bit!
I did this with my PL J2, by making it a smaller scale than stated I was able to fit a more scale lower floor....ie go from 1/35 to say 1/48 maybe..
I was lucky enough to get a second PL J" on the cheap, not sure I would fancy messing up the Big boy!


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## Dar (Apr 20, 2007)

aeryn43 said:


> There is a way to make both levels fit....fudge the scale a bit!
> I did this with my PL J2, by making it a smaller scale than stated I was able to fit a more scale lower floor....ie go from 1/35 to say 1/48 maybe..
> I was lucky enough to get a second PL J" on the cheap, not sure I would fancy messing up the Big boy!


Thats what I posted earlier. Regardless of what some here may say, a two level Jupiter 2 most definitely works with some minor rescaling and some exterior detail changes. The overall asthetics of the ship will remain and everything ends up working.


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## Seaview (Feb 18, 2004)

Fernando Mureb said:


> Hey seaview
> Take a look at this thread/post:
> http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?p=2978901#post2978901
> 
> Note: the Jupiter II drawing in the diagram image is by RSN.


 
Wow! Great minds think alike, Fernando; I missed your posting! I wish you all the best in making this a reality! :wave:


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

It's the same Apples and oranges thing. The Set was one reality, the SPFX models were another. Trying to get it through some peoples heads about this is getting old at this point. 

I had suggested a few years ago to do the set as a kit, so you could remove the flat-sided upper level and see into the larger lower deck. Wasting time and effort to reconcile the sets with the SPFX models will not work if you keep the same scale. 

Some stuff to remember...

There was NEVER a full interior inside the curve sided SPFX model. 
There was NEVER a hatch on the SPFX model. 
The lower viewport DOES NOT OPEN on the SPFX models.
The positions of the windows and hatches do not match between the SPFX models and the sets. 
Trying to kludge all the aspects of the SPFX models and the full scale sets into one model makes the entire thing SUCK.

It IS a dead horse.


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## liskorea317 (Mar 27, 2009)

Y3a said:


> It's the same Apples and oranges thing. The Set was one reality, the SPFX models were another. Trying to get it through some peoples heads about this is getting old at this point.
> 
> I had suggested a few years ago to do the set as a kit, so you could remove the flat-sided upper level and see into the larger lower deck. Wasting time and effort to reconcile the sets with the SPFX models will not work if you keep the same scale.
> 
> ...


Well said. I have plans though to make a free standing mini set of the lower level, maybe 1/35th scale at some point, and it will not fit into any hulls. It'll just be scratch built from plastruct materials and sit on a nice base. Luckily people here regularly post sketches and other references for it. I'm not a master builder but I wanted to take a shot at that. Lunar Models had announced a lower level kit in '91 but it was never released.


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## mmmmp (Jan 15, 2010)

I think the lower level on the PL kit was great!!! If *only* for the fact they (Ron G.?) took the time to include it and let the builder decide if it 'worked' for them or not. I still maintain the PL kit is one of the best models out there. It's not perfect, but I've seen some beautiful builds. How can anyone nitpick a scale model, of a fake TV series no less....if I.A. can take liberties, so can Polar Lights. More choices and options are much more preferable than none. 

We've been spoiled by the Moebius. PL will always have my devotion because they 'did it first', the kit is very well designed, and it didn't really cost much to purchase. 

I'm not trying to start a flame-fest, but please give credit to those PL guys....Just my opinion. I don't want to piss anyone off, but I really think we should be grateful for what we have.

Thanks for reading....hope I didn't just get banned! (Joke)
Mark


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## charonjr (Mar 27, 2000)

In the second episode, when the smaller J2 was sucked into the alien ship, they had a front angle showing the lower windows open. Nothing behind it of course.


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## charonjr (Mar 27, 2000)

Richard Baker said:


> Ever wonder HOW they were going to colonize? Does each family get a Jupiter class spaceship and you end up with a large gene pool on an alien planet, or were the kids expected to interbreed for future colonists? I know Don could probably pitch in, but anyway you think about it is slightly creepy...
> 
> .


What was it? "The first of what could be as many as one million families per year...", so I guess you'd say a Jupiter class house ship for every family....


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## Gemini1999 (Sep 25, 2008)

charonjr said:


> In the second episode, when the smaller J2 was sucked into the alien ship, they had a front angle showing the lower windows open. Nothing behind it of course.


That was the 12" model, all of the viewports only had lighting behind them. If you look at some shots of the J2 flying, some shots show the upper viewport with nothing but white light showing.

I know the shot you're thinking of. I think it's the only time where the lower deck viewport is visible from the outside with the crash shutters open.

Bryan


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

It's a tight fit. I've got about 1/2" clearance under a reasonably-to-scale upper hull for the lower deck. And that is with a radically shortened auxiliary control room window opening and an almost vertical window.


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

The little Jupiter 2's lower window was actually some reflective tape. You can just barely see movement(reflection) as the ship enters the Derelict.


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

charonjr said:


> What was it? "The first of what could be as many as one million families per year...", so I guess you'd say a Jupiter class house ship for every family....


Wasn't there an attempt to reboot the show much later with a bunch of colonists in 'house-ships' gaggled together onto a carrier which was attacked by aliens and separated? 

.


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## Dar (Apr 20, 2007)

Y3a said:


> It's the same Apples and oranges thing. The Set was one reality, the SPFX models were another. Trying to get it through some peoples heads about this is getting old at this point.
> 
> I had suggested a few years ago to do the set as a kit, so you could remove the flat-sided upper level and see into the larger lower deck. Wasting time and effort to reconcile the sets with the SPFX models will not work if you keep the same scale.
> 
> ...


Im not sure if people dont understand certain posts or if they just assume certain things and dont read the entire thread. So once again for clarity sake.

Its NOT a dead horse. I dont see why you or Ductape think that. The op was inquiring about lower level kits, options etc. NO ONE is arguing the fact that the full scale sets, minatures etc dont match. Im pretty sure everyone knows that. BUT some people may want to rescale the entire interior and make the dang ship actually work to at least an asthetically facismile of the Jupiter 2 or create something to represent the lower level.(a nice photo visable through an open lower level viewport) .Something that resembles the ship in shape and asthetics. There is nothing wrong with discussing this topic. I dont know why there is always a few that have to insist that those who are discussing it are ignorant to the fact that the full scale and minature scale are different as well as the placement or omission of certain details from both.

I dont see how a completely rescaled interior that can make most of the details work would SUCK Y3A. Some may not care if there model looks exactly like a filming minature or a full scale set. They may want to make a workable interior. A concept J2 that resembles the shape of the exterior hull and an interior that has the same asthetics but not the exact floorplan.


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## kdaracal (Jan 24, 2009)

What's cool about all the talent here is that you guys and gals can do anything you set your minds to. I'm constantly amazed at the mind-blowing ideas you all come up with. I have to be careful because I get sucked in to reading build posts and _it keeps me off my own model table._ 

How about big diorama style?:

Someone a while back, had the idea to build the lower level "down in the dirt" just like we see in the show. (crash landed) Perhaps 1:1 scale with the upper level. The upper level would be exposed and the lower interior would be below ground. You could make the upper level and hull removable to show the "buried" lower level, scratch build, of course. 

Of course they would not match up and be justified with one another, but you could fix that by working in the top perimeter terrain to cover the lower level exterior edge gap. When you put the upper level back in place, the size difference would be consealed. 

Lastly, you could go ahead and finish your lower hull section and be able to put the upper and lower together for a more traditional display. Two for one deal!

Dumbest idea you've heard? Keep my newbie cake hole shut? Good compromise? Be honest!
:thumbsup:


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

This HAS BEEN discussed for almost 10 years, and what you suggest is making it incorrect on purpose, and introducing a bunch of inaccuracies. That suggests 'toy' instead of serious modeling. Start with a polar Lights kit then. I also don't like the LED fusion cores as the core had 6 or less lights spinning inside, not 8. 

I guess I just have the bar a lot higher than some of the newbies.

I suggest you make a flat sided set model and putting your interior in that.


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## WmTodd (Feb 11, 2010)

Y'know, learning about all this is fun, but now I don't know if I'm supposed to be offended or enlightened.


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## Dar (Apr 20, 2007)

Y3a said:


> This HAS BEEN discussed for almost 10 years, and what you suggest is making it incorrect on purpose, and introducing a bunch of inaccuracies. That suggests 'toy' instead of serious modeling. Start with a polar Lights kit then. I also don't like the LED fusion cores as the core had 6 or less lights spinning inside, not 8.
> 
> I guess I just have the bar a lot higher than some of the newbies.
> 
> I suggest you make a flat sided set model and putting your interior in that.



Why is it not serious modeling if someone wants to make the ship work? Since when is trying to make a personal concept of a model "Toy" modeling. I have seen many people here do there own interpretations of models either by adding stuff that wasnt there or taking stuff away. The J2 is innaccurate between all the various incarnations on the show. Theres nothing wrong with trying to make a more believeable model. Im a little disappointed in some of the attitudes here sometimes. I know you love the J2 Y3A but just because you want to make a filming minature doesnt mean your bar is any higher than someone elses concepts. Not a great way to inspire new members here.


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## Seaview (Feb 18, 2004)

Gentlemen, recognize that everyone on this thread is making valid points, and are free to build their Jupiter 2's in whatever manner they see fit. If you want an OOB, so be it. If you want a "scrim" interior, so be it. If you want a below-ground lower deck diorama, so be it. We have Moebius & co. to thank for these opportunities!
Personally, I'd begin construction with the elevator and ladder if I were to do a lower deck.
But please remember to remain civil; the Jupiter 2, beloved as it is, is a work of fiction, while friendships between collegues like ourselves is not.


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## skinnyonce (Dec 17, 2009)

WmTodd said:


> Y'know, learning about all this is fun, but now I don't know if I'm supposed to be offended or enlightened.


Ya! what he said,
besides Ive been pounding square pegs into round holes all my life. so I,m not stopping now


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## Ductapeforever (Mar 6, 2008)

The most agrivating thing about this thread is that the subject has been discussed ad nausium over, and over, and over, and over again. About every couple of months someone starts a new thread, instead of using the search feature on the forum to see if it has been discussed before. Thats why I said it was a dead horse. Some of us regulars are just sick of it poping up again. Go ahead if it trips your trigger, gut the kit, build one two, or three levels, what ever floats your boat.


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## Dar (Apr 20, 2007)

Im always puzzled why some would get aggravated over a thread they think may have been a subject from an earlier thread. Just dont read it. I have seen many threads discuss the same thing over and over again and I usually chose to ignore them.

I did a search "Jupiter 2 lower level" and this is the only thread that deals with it here. Im not aware of the subject getting its own thread every couple months. So any newbies would have a hard time digging out any info on it. 

NOW I will admit that the subject has come up in other threads for example...."Are you going to put a lower level in your J2" or people just discussing how they would incorporate one. But again I do think everyone knows that a great deal of rescaling and floorplan reconfiguration would have to be done etc.etc. and some may want suggestions to represent it in their kit. I think many gave the op many ideas on how to do it.


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## Ductapeforever (Mar 6, 2008)

:beatdeadhorse:While we're on the subject of dead threads, isn't it about time for yet another,... wish Moebius would make a Spindrift thread to rehash?


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

First of all, the Moebius Jupiter 2 hull shape and external details are spot on except as I stated the Hero had no door. The Moebius model added in the Set door, and I'm OK with that as they also did the wonderful interior. 

I will build one of my J2's as the Hero, with the aftermarket gear and my own mods. this leaves 2 interiors, and I'll do a 3rd year and 1st year interior and swap em back n forth with the other hull I won't add gear to. I have photo etch for both interiors. I won't do any tricky lighting on the interiors, but I may do some close-up photos when done. Both hulls are supported by thin wire or somesuch. 

The model doesn't have the room to do a proper lower deck. That deck was bigger than the upper deck. 

Why throw away all the work you do on the upper deck to do an obvious incorrectly scaled lower one? Any point? Doing a bunch of work just because the LAME SCRIPTS put in such BS as a 3rd deck doesn't fly. The story is BS not the sets or models. 

Most of you never thought out a raising and lowering Astrogator in the bubble, or doing your own mechanical 6 light fusion cores as is correct. Adding in the other crap that was in there just for a plot solution seems pretty lame.


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## Dar (Apr 20, 2007)

Ductapeforever said:


> :beatdeadhorse:While we're on the subject of dead threads, isn't it about time for yet another,... wish Moebius would make a Spindrift thread to rehash?


Now there you happen to be correct. There have indeed been many Spindrift threads.


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## Dar (Apr 20, 2007)

Y3a said:


> The model doesn't have the room to do a proper lower deck. That deck was bigger than the upper deck.
> 
> Why throw away all the work you do on the upper deck to do an obvious incorrectly scaled lower one? Any point? Doing a bunch of work just because the LAME SCRIPTS put in such BS as a 3rd deck doesn't fly. The story is BS not the sets or models.
> 
> Most of you never thought out a raising and lowering Astrogator in the bubble, or doing your own mechanical 6 light fusion cores as is correct. Adding in the other crap that was in there just for a plot solution seems pretty lame.


:lol:No sense going over it all again except to say that some may want to do a complete rescaled scratch built interior,(which I doubt many would want to tackle)or put a small photo by the lower level window to show a second level.There are very few interior sets on any tv show (from the 60's)that could actually fit in there exterior shell. Its not just LIS that had incorrect floorplans. Though Allen did push the bounds of believability a little to far.:lol:

We are well aware that you only feel that the sets and models should be built as seen on screen.Which is cool. Doesnt make the fact that someone may want to make the jupiter closer to what it was supposed to be, incorrect or lame.
A few have discussed putting the raising and lower astrogator on the ship. Im assuming many dont do it because it was only seen in one episode. Same reason why someone wouldnt want to put the 3rd level in, because it was seen only briefly in one episode.(I mentioned a few posts back that the engine room was also seen as a small room later in the 3rd season) The continuity when concerning the interior was all over the place. So its up to anyones interpretation.

As for myself Im going with the supplied kits interior and thats it. Though I want to add a supply room similar in asthetics to the supply room shown on that infamous episode in season 3. Theres plenty of room behind the interior to make it a first level room. I also want to do the utility/map room that always seems to change shape. 

I can do some simple scratch building but nothing that would involve an entire interior. Though I would be very interested to see if someone actually tackles something a little more creative.


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## Fernando Mureb (Nov 12, 2006)

kdaracal said:


> What's cool about all the talent here is that you guys and gals can do anything you set your minds to. I'm constantly amazed at the mind-blowing ideas you all come up with. I have to be careful because I get sucked in to reading build posts and _it keeps me off my own model table._
> 
> How about big diorama style?:
> 
> ...


Well, if this is the dumbest of all ideas, then we both had the same stupid idea. And even worse, I'll put it into practice some day. :wave:


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## Antimatter (Feb 16, 2008)

Ductapeforever said:


> Beating A Dead Horse again I see..........


What's it to you? If you don't like the subject, then don't read it.


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## Antimatter (Feb 16, 2008)

Ductapeforever said:


> :beatdeadhorse:While we're on the subject of dead threads, isn't it about time for yet another,... wish Moebius would make a Spindrift thread to rehash?


Troll alert, battlestations.


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## Ron Gross (Jan 2, 2009)

After reading these posts for the last few days, I thought I would chime in with a few observations.

First of all, re: the PL kit (mmmmp's comment): The fact is that the the lower deck is the one aspect of the design in which I was not involved. However, I grew to respect it when I saw a build at FrightVision '2000 that incorporated a transparent floor. Now it seemed to make sense - even the smaller scale, as most details were clearly visible with this arrangement. It almost became a statement of two discrete models, but packaged together in this brilliant and artistic interpretation.

I also agree with Dar that there is nothing wrong with an upper deck layout that would take certain liberties with the studio set, but produce a more believable whole. I never bought into this notion that everything has to measured to the exact inch, or risk being classified as "distorted." To me, that's a frame of mind that fits better in the Star Trek universe in terms of reconstructing the bridge set, etc. Sorry, but IA simply plays by different rules.

What you have in the Moebius kit is a hero miniature hull contour mated with a dead-on accurate 3rd season studio set for seven of the eight pie sections. It is a completely valid interpretation, and in my view, it produced an excellent result. However, it is not completely free of "distortion" itself: in this case, all of the forced reconciliation is concentrated in one area. The necessity of pushing the flight deck back to reach the interior edge within the eighth (now enlarged) pie section creates an unavoidable "hallway" effect, as well as having to fill out a proportionally larger space.

The other choice, which it what I attempted with the PL design, would be to spread out, or average the "distortion" so that it would be less noticeable in any one area. In so doing, more of the interior space within the model would also be utilized. This concept, however, requires an immediate leap of faith as you must leave the notion that "the studio set is the final word" decisively at the door. The goal now becomes one of achieving a convincing overall illusion rather than quibbling about specific measurements in any one area.

I guess the bottom line is this: both interpretations are valid, and we now have models that display the merits of each. In retrospect, I only wish that the PL J2 would have been a little more accurate translation of my plans for the latter concept. But considering the time and budgetary constraints in play at that time, I still think it turned out pretty damned well.
Ron G.


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## Steve244 (Jul 22, 2001)

Sure it wasn't at wonderfest?


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## Dar (Apr 20, 2007)

^^^^^Thats a cool pic. Even though the scaling was different for both levels on the PL J2, it was a very cool way to depict both levels. I will always love that model.:thumbsup:


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## Ron Gross (Jan 2, 2009)

Steve244 said:


> Sure it wasn't at wonderfest?


Probably both, now that you mention it. But I know I saw it at FV, because it was in a smaller room, and I remember leaving the builder a note of appreciation.
Ron G.


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## fortress (Apr 1, 2006)

Ron Gross said:


> Probably both, now that you mention it. But I know I saw it at FV, because it was in a smaller room, and I remember leaving the builder a note of appreciation.
> Ron G.


Since starting this post I am more sure than ever that there 
is merrit in producing a lower level for the J2, yes the PL kit
was not perfect but it was, and is one of my favorite models
and a darn good effort as well. The Moebuis kit is a dream for
many that wanted a accurate J2. My wish is that in the future 
Moebius will want more for their LIS series and may add this as
a subject to produce or some aftermarket manufacture will take
a crack at it. Either way it's a good idea.

fortress:thumbsup:


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## liskorea317 (Mar 27, 2009)

Steve244 said:


> Sure it wasn't at wonderfest?


This is the kit that the builder utilized fiber optics for the computer panels that blinked like they did on the show, the first time I had ever seen that effect done. This was probably the most impressive PL kit done until the man from Japan came along.
The PL kit while slightly flawed was a great kit. Budgets were tighter then and the kit was pretty low in price. I just bought two more and am considering a third, just for the lower deck. Look at all the aftermarket parts the PL J2 inspired over the years!
And the Moebius kit-well, Its just a work of art. But the two versions are going to be together in my office, along with the mini J2's from Lunar.


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## Fernando Mureb (Nov 12, 2006)

The name of the modeler is Steve Payne.

In my modest opinion, the small size of LD makes the commitment to accuracy and faithfulness to the interior of the ship, a meticulous and very difficult work, but pleasurable exactly for that. A pleasure that only models with the patience and selflessness of watchmakers can feel.


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## kdaracal (Jan 24, 2009)

Is the base actually open with no clear area just like a cut out, or is what I'm seeing a glass or plastic panel floor?


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## Fernando Mureb (Nov 12, 2006)

You can learn about every step of his build here:

http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/t/steveplj/plj2/


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## Ron Gross (Jan 2, 2009)

Thanks, Fernando. I only had one small pic of that build, and no way of remembering who it was. I may drop him another line at this point and tell him how cool it is all over again.


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## kdaracal (Jan 24, 2009)

Fernando Mureb said:


> You can learn about every step of his build here:
> 
> http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/t/steveplj/plj2/


Thanks, My friend!


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## Fernando Mureb (Nov 12, 2006)

Ron and kdaracal

It was a pleasure to help you guys. :wave:


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## Antimatter (Feb 16, 2008)

Ron Gross said:


> After reading these posts for the last few days, I thought I would chime in with a few observations.
> 
> First of all, re: the PL kit (mmmmp's comment): The fact is that the the lower deck is the one aspect of the design in which I was not involved. However, I grew to respect it when I saw a build at FrightVision '2000 that incorporated a transparent floor. Now it seemed to make sense - even the smaller scale, as most details were clearly visible with this arrangement. It almost became a statement of two discrete models, but packaged together in this brilliant and artistic interpretation.
> 
> ...


I still like my PL version. I haven't even bought the new one and may never.


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## Dar (Apr 20, 2007)

^^^They are both excellent models. I love the PL its probably one of my all time favorite models.


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## fortress (Apr 1, 2006)

Moebius has already jumped ahead and make a chariot/Sapce Pod set
to scale with their J2, I see no reason why they should stop now, man
they are on a roll! My hope is that they continue the line with Diorama
sets, for example crashsite set for your 1/35 J2, Accurate rock base,
J2 outdoor equipment, be modular so you can add adventure sets with
it like the Space Raft or the Sky Pirate Captain Tuckers ship. 

Maybe a lower interior that could be placed on top of the J2 upper level
without the upper and lower hulls, sort of like a cut-away version.
Man would that not be something!

fortress


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## liskorea317 (Mar 27, 2009)

fortress said:


> Moebius has already jumped ahead and make a chariot/Sapce Pod set
> to scale with their J2, I see no reason why they should stop now, man
> they are on a roll! My hope is that they continue the line with Diorama
> sets, for example crashsite set for your 1/35 J2, Accurate rock base,
> ...


I think its far more likely that modelers on their own would scratch build any dioramas or create the other IA ships, like Hapgood's ship or The Sky Pirate's. They are not complicated designs and I've seen places like Plastruct that have pieces to make them-you could even use your spare fusion core from the Moebius J-2.


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## kdaracal (Jan 24, 2009)

I'd pay good money for a companion Moebius accessory kit. I *will* be buying the pod/chariot kit as soon as it hits........


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## Tim Nolan (Jul 9, 2008)

I made the suggestion of the clear hull way back when it first came out, and Frank actually said maybe it would be a Club Moebius idea or promo in the future. Of course, that was a while back and all things change, but it might just happen some day!!! Hey, we got a transparent red Iron Man, a transparent blue Seaview....... 

Or course, theres that metal J2 thing getting in the way still I think....


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## kdaracal (Jan 24, 2009)

Tim Nolan said:


> I made the suggestion of the clear hull way back when it first came out, and Frank actually said maybe it would be a Club Moebius idea or promo in the future. Of course, that was a while back and all things change, but it might just happen some day!!! Hey, we got a transparent red Iron Man, a transparent blue Seaview.......
> 
> Or course, theres that metal J2 thing getting in the way still I think....


I'd love to see the clear J2 lit. Maybe with white LEDs and white or clear wires or fiber optics..:thumbsup:


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

Ron Gross said:


> It almost became a statement of two discrete models, but packaged together in this brilliant and artistic interpretation.


 I love your take on that that build. And I was severely impressed with it my own self.


> But considering the time and budgetary constraints in play at that time, I still think it (PLJ2) turned out pretty damned well.


And that's precisely why I bought one as opposed to the MJ2- more freedom to express my individual vision for the project. I have the lower level in mine, detailed by my Son (a big LIS fan at 12 years old), and it's something I could not be doing with the Moebius. Well, not NEARLY as easily at any rate.
We both understand the scale issues, yet we both accept the 'leap of faith' needed to wrap our heads around them.
Thanks, Ron, for your excellent work on this model. 
Our J2 build will be finished in a month, probably, and we'll post pictures here. No crazy chaser lighting though- just the beautiful ship. In flight mode. 
Okay, a few lights...:thumbsup:


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## kdaracal (Jan 24, 2009)

> _Okay, a few lights..._


heh heh.


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

kdaracal said:


> heh heh.


Well, ya got to be able to see the interior from outside... and the bubble on top needs to glow... and the fusion core needs a _little_ brightness...
and...


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## kdaracal (Jan 24, 2009)

Chrisisall said:


> Well, ya got to be able to see the interior from outside... and the bubble on top needs to glow... and the fusion core needs a _little_ brightness...
> and...


Preaching to the choir, Sir! Ya know, I rarely see any of the IPMS guys lighting tanks and planes. I wonder why? It's pretty addictive, I must say!


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