# AMT/ERTL Romulan Bird of Prey Size?



## m5multitronic (May 27, 2005)

Hello, Everybody! (>Hi, M5!<)  

I've heard it said a time or two that most people think of the original Romulan BoP kit and the original 18" _Enterprise_ kit are in the same scale, and thus correctly sized in relation to each other.

Is that the general consensus, do you think? In the absence of any canon comparison, I'm of the inclination to go with what the largest number of fellow modelers agree upon.

Any opinions, speculations, or wild, unsupported, and clearly insane notions would be welcome!


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## capt Locknar (Dec 29, 2002)

I think the general consensus was at one time that they were in scale with each other (the kits that is) I'm not sure if the consensus has changed in light of some new (old) photos of the studio miniature coming about. 
I tend to think of them in scale with each other anyway.


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## m5multitronic (May 27, 2005)

Thanks for the response, Capt.

Over on SSM, I posted the same question. One of the most intriguing responses I've gotten so far is the idea that the RBoP from the "Spaceship Set" is more like the proper scale to compare to the 18" AMT/ERTL _Enterprise_ model. That's interesting. It's possible. What if, like Diane Carey postulated, the RBoP was like a BSG Viper, launched from a much more massive, carrier-type warp-capable ship?

That's the kind of thing I was interested in finding out. Is there a debate? If there is, I want to know about it!

Thanks for your interest. I appreciate your comment.


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## mikephys (Mar 16, 2005)

Diane Carey's idea may have come from the briefing room conversation in Balance of Terror in which Scotty states that the RBoP's power system was "simple impulse." Did this mean that it lacked warp drive? If so, they would need some means of getting all the way out of Romulan space and into other star systems, hence the carrier idea. But then why did the thing have warp nacelles? 

BTW, I do agree with the Captain that the two kits are in scale with each other.
MJE


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## m5multitronic (May 27, 2005)

Something that has always bothered me is the cheesy looking graphic on the 1701's screen showing the Neutral Zone as being 1 light-year wide, and the distance between the outposts being about half that distance from each other. If that were so, then the RBoP would've needed a coupla years to attack the different outposts, if their drive was "simple impulse".

And why did their ship have what clearly look to be warp engine nacelles?

We shouldn't be so nitpicky about someting created in 1966-67. But I can't help it.

I'm a chicken-head-chompin' geek. There you have it.....44 years old, wife, house, job, etc., and I'm still, after all these years, worried about how big the damn RBoP is....

Go ahead, call me names.....


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## Lloyd Collins (Sep 25, 2004)

^^ *NAMES!* Are you happy now! :tongue: 

No matter how we love TOS, it is like Swiss cheese.


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## Guy Schlicter (May 3, 2004)

I like your logo Lloyd


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

It has been suggested/stated that the BOP from Johnny Lightning is 1/1000th. If that is the case, then the small desk set would be around 1/1000th since they're roughly the same size if you take into account some obvious design discrepancies between the two.

The old large AMT BOP model would be about 1/400th or thereabouts--close enough to 1/350th, IMHO, since the scale was never clearly established on screen to my knowledge.


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## MGagen (Dec 18, 2001)

Here's some food for thought:

In the original script treatment, there was dialogue to the effect that the design of the BOP shocked the crew when they saw it. It was obviously adapted from stolen Federation technology. This was why they are sure there are Romulan spies in Star Fleet. It's also why Wah Chang made the BOP look so much like an Enterprise saucer with nacelles attached to it. He was serving the script perfectly. Too bad the line was cut in the final revision.

That said, I think there's reason to consider that the Romulan saucer might be the same size as the Enterprise saucer.

And all these years I thought the Romulan design didn't look alien enough. I should have known better considering it was designed by the great Wah Chang!

M.


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## Griffworks (Jun 24, 2002)

Good points, Mark. I had forgotten that I'd heard about that line of dialogue from the original script. I've always liked to think that the RBoP was closer in size to the _Constitution_-class starships than it being a dinky little scout ship. I've always felt it just looked better that way.


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## Lou Dalmaso (Jul 13, 2004)

I think the perception that the ship is small comes from seeing the "bridge" set where all of the officers are huddled up against that tiny control consol.

plus it would take less energy to cloak a smaller ship. 

If one were to make assumptions based on the size of the windows, I'd place it at about the size of the E's saucer.


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## Ohio_Southpaw (Apr 26, 2005)

mikephys said:


> Diane Carey's idea may have come from the briefing room conversation in Balance of Terror in which Scotty states that the RBoP's power system was "simple impulse." Did this mean that it lacked warp drive? If so, they would need some means of getting all the way out of Romulan space and into other star systems, hence the carrier idea. But then why did the thing have warp nacelles?
> 
> BTW, I do agree with the Captain that the two kits are in scale with each other.
> MJE


It could be postulated that the 'power system' Scotty was referring to was the ships main power source, not her propulsion system. It is very possible that the Romulans did not/do not use matter/anti-matter in the same way the Federation does (if at all). They could have used fusion drives (impulse) to power the warp coils. So even if it's power systems are simple impulse, the ship could could have had some warp capability. It may also help to explain why the Romulans developed the artificial singularity power source.


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## scotpens (Sep 6, 2003)

MGagen said:


> In the original script treatment, there was dialogue to the effect that the design of the BOP shocked the crew when they saw it. It was obviously adapted from stolen Federation technology.


I guess it was enough of a shock when the crew saw the Romulans for the first time -- and they looked exactly like Vulcans!


Lou Dalmaso said:


> I think the perception that the ship is small comes from seeing the "bridge" set where all of the officers are huddled up against that tiny control consol.


"Balance of Terror" was a reworking of the classic WWII drama _The Enemy Below_, about an American destroyer stalking a German U-boat. The idea was to make the Romulan ship seem small and cramped like a submarine, even to the point of having a periscope-like viewing device on the bridge. It's also interesting that Romulan culture was based on the classical Greek-Spartan-Roman model, with the Romulans using the title of "Centurion" and having Latin-sounding names. (Those were dropped from later episodes featuring Romulans).


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## mikephys (Mar 16, 2005)

Thank you Ohio!
That's the best explanation I've read yet. It's not plausible to imagine the ship and crew were spending years cruising through star systems at sublight speeds.


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

Kirk ordered emergency warp speed, to run from the Romulan weapon. It still overtook them. Sort of suggests their weapons, at least, had superior warp speed capability.


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## spe130 (Apr 13, 2004)

Ohio, that makes a lot of sense - especially since a fusion-powered warp drive would probably be slower and have less range than a M/AM-powered drive.

Another continuity error bites the dust...


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## enterprise_fan (May 23, 2004)

When the model first came out I got one. Back then all I needed was a can of flat gray spray, model glue paint, a set of decales that came with the kit and I was happy. Fast forward a many years. I still have the kit that I put together but the years have taken their toll on her. I would like to repaint and remodel the old girl to look like the remastered ship. 

Problem #1
I know that I need to redo the edge from flat to angle (angle unknown). 
Problem #2
Should the exterior color be shades of dark green like in TNG?
Problem #3
Where can I find decales for the ship?

I don't know where the post is now but I seem to recall a gentelman was remodeling his RBOP from TOS. Can this group offer any help on my endeavor?


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## geino (May 9, 2006)

enterprise fan - this might help- 
1. approximate angle 45% from the bottom ot ship flairing outward to the top- of the ship. I am sure accurate information exists, but this is a good starting point.

2. I believe that the original model was a shade of gray, not green. But color is always a choice of the builder. And since the orginal model seems to have become lost in time, who will argue with you???

3. After market decals may be available from federationmodels or from other people here.

Also - Note that all of the original models of this ship have the front of the nacelles wrong. They have a ball on them. It should be a dome.


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

It was the same color as the _Enterprise_.


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## enterprise_fan (May 23, 2004)

After posting my last message two hours ago I came across several buildups of the Romulan BOP at culttvman site.

Thanks geino for the heads up about front of the nacelles. :thumbsup:


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

My best advice is to purchase the Johnny Lighting RBOP for a guide to a more accurate version. I'm using it to guide my build up of a same scale BOP.


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## m5multitronic (May 27, 2005)

Perfesser:

I'm taking a different approach, as we discussed in a previous thread: I acquired a 1995 Playmates RBoP off of evil-bay (cheaply!), tore it apart, stripped out the cheesy lights-n-sounds, and have been in the process of rebuilding it as a far more accurate reproduction than the way, way wrong AMT model I have on display now.

This has involved an enormous amount of filling in gaps (stand mount, screw-holes, and the like), a ton of puttying/sanding, quite a bit of greeblie/decalling/detail painting, and --worst of all-- I had to hand-paint the big bird. (Note: I traded a few words with Thomas about possibly having him create a decal sheet for me, and he seemed agreeable, but I couldn't figure out how to give him the exact dimensions. So I took a deep breath, and painted...)

I said all that to say this: several of the Playmates RBoP's basic dimensions are far more accurate than the AMT model's. I felt (and still feel) that it's a much better platform from which to begin a buildup than the AMT kit.

I've pretty well finished it, and my plan for today is to take a few final photos (along with some side-by-sides with the AMT kit), and start a new thread about the project sometime later this afternoon.

If anybody's interested, check back later today....


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

m5multitronic said:


> I acquired a 1995 Playmates RBoP off of evil-bay (cheaply!), tore it apart, stripped out the cheesy lights-n-sounds, and have been in the process of rebuilding it as a far more accurate reproduction than the way, way wrong AMT model I have on display now.



I agree that the toy is more accurate than the model. For me it has helped, no matter what the scale, to have the JL toy for a 3-D reference. 

Looking forward to the pics. :thumbsup:


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## Lloyd Collins (Sep 25, 2004)

I like to see some photos.


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## m5multitronic (May 27, 2005)

Lloyd:

They're in the thread I started earlier today. Also, I mentioned you.

 :freak:


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## Lloyd Collins (Sep 25, 2004)

I was working my way up the threads, so I didn't notice the new thread, until now.


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## CaptBillD (Apr 29, 2011)

Of course the RBoP was cramped- they had no engineering hull! 
I imagine the more compact silhouette was also dictated by the limitations of the cloaking device.


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