# Muffling A Door Slab Track ???????



## gonegonzo (Jan 18, 2006)

I'm building a new track on a hollow core door . The door is light and has great stability. It's also very noiesy . I need the stability and the lightness but also need to do something to quiet it down when the cars are running over the track. 

I thought about cussioning the track but read somewhere that when fastening the track to the surface that the noise will still travel thru the screws. I'm using #2 coutersunk screws for fastening the track.

Does anyone have a solution to quieting this track down ?

Thank you in advance ,
Gonzo


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## bkreaume (Feb 6, 2010)

I have used the acustitc underlayment material for laminate flooing. Home depot sells a roll of it for about $20. It really quited down the track.


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## coach61 (Sep 6, 2004)

loud music


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## eastside johnny (May 13, 2008)

coach61 said:


> loud music


That's why I don't hear track noise....or a lot of other noise too!


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## roadrner (Jul 21, 1999)

eastside johnny said:


> That's why I don't hear track noise....or a lot of other noise too!


 
Huh? Did you say something? :thumbsup: rr


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

Don't oil your Tjets, you won't hear anything else!


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## martybauer31 (Jan 27, 2004)

Cover the table with a tightly woven carpet, it will drastically reduce the noise. Plus, it's nice and cheap...


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## shocker36 (Jul 5, 2008)

If you want to go through the time and effort hollow core doors can be taken apart then just fill it with foam, or stuff it with insulation.


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

A 1/2" drill bit, a drill, and a few cans of expanding spray foam :thumbsup:


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## shocker36 (Jul 5, 2008)

Care full with that one I had a budy who did that and popped the door.


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## tjd241 (Jan 25, 2004)

gonegonzo said:


> I need the stability and the lightness but also need to do something to quiet it down when the cars are running over the track.


Gonzo... Are you landscaping or is this a racing platform? nd


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## gonegonzo (Jan 18, 2006)

No tjd , This is a racing track only.

I chose a door slab because they are light , stable ( no flex ) and easy to store ( I have limited room ).

I uderstand too about shooting too much foam into the door cavity. However I might go lite and shoot some in .

Any suggestions are welcomed .

Thx , Gonzo


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

The trick is gonna be to drill a few holes and with a flashlight look in at what you've got. Some hollow doors have additional bracing, or cardboard or other fillers. Use the minimal-expanding foam and if possible lay the door flat with a sheet of plywood and some weight on top...and as you said go light, a little at a time.


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

I have had good luck with this low pressure latex foam for its intended applications, around window frames. http://www.see-bee.com/prod-DAP18826.htm . Hollow core doors ... don't really know. You will probably have to drill some vent holes to allow the displaced air to escape. The DAP latex product is much easier to work with than the standard ultra sticky standard Great Stuff which seems to get on everything and is hard to clean up.

Another option is a rubber backed indoor outdoor (or better yet - marine) carpet or carpet tiles. This will of course add some weight and require you to use a longer screw.


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## twolff (May 11, 2007)

AfxToo said:


> Another option is a rubber backed indoor outdoor (or better yet - marine) carpet or carpet tiles. This will of course add some weight and require you to use a longer screw.


I use a patio carpet I found at Lowe's. It is glued to the plywood table and the track is very quiet for Tomy track until it is screwed down. It is probably better than screwed directly to the plywood. I've also found that it is not stable enough for track borders. Current plan is to inlay both the track and borders into the rug once I get back to it. It is one of those hard to get started jobs that is going to be a lot of work.


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## 440s-4ever (Feb 23, 2010)

Flip the door over, set a skilsaw real shallow (or a sharp utility knife), and remove the backside a few inches in from the edge. If there's loose cardboard, remove it before filling with foam. Drag a long straightedge over the surface as the foam expands. The thin facing will buckle with any lesser attempt at venting foam pressure. 

As a plus the foam is now a structural component of the door and ought to enhance strength significantly. 

How are you mounting this door? Setting on some kind of sawhorse/table or laying on the floor? Hard floor or rug? 

Good luck


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## gonegonzo (Jan 18, 2006)

440,

I plan to set it on 2 saw horses. 

I just returned form the hardware store. I bought some foam and a roll of pabbly black shelf covering . It's made of some kind of foam .

Was going to try that before shooting the foam inside the door.

I'd hate to cut the side off the door fearing it would take away from the rigidity. However , that sonds reasonable as far as getting the job done.

Gonzo


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## shocker36 (Jul 5, 2008)

Try this too cut some holes in the side of the door get some insulation with out the paper backing and shove it in there indoor carpet is good too the only thing I dont like about it is that it eats slot car parts if you d-slot the stuff has a tendency of catching pickup shoes and then your losing springs if ur running any BSR, AFX, TJet type cars good luck.


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## gonegonzo (Jan 18, 2006)

OK ,

I drilled the door slab and shot foam into the door. It didn't make a difference in the least.

I then put the foam shelving material under the track and it quieted right down. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I then screwed the track to the door. Guess what . the noise travels thru the screws just as loud as before.

I'm going to cover the door skin with 1/4 '' plywood tomorrow and see if that makes a difference. 

My only other choice will be carrying the door and the plywood outside and setting it on fire !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Frustrated Gonzo


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

You could possibly try this...

Put carpet over the door and build your track on the carpet. Do not screw it down. It would be advisable to build some kind of walls around the perimeter of the door. This will quiet down the track.

Buy a thin piece of wood the same size as the door (let's say 36x72). When you want to put the track away, lay the 36x72 on top of the track and screw it down at multiple locations (4 corners, along the edge, etc.) which will hold the track in place. Possibly put a small pad over the track first which may stop it from moving. Maybe screw down a couple pieces of track for storage purposes. If you've got walls, the 36x72 board will fit right inside the walls.

Or screw the track down only for storage.

A rather Rube Goldberg solution, but you will have a quiet track.

Joe


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

Since you already drilled the holes for the screws....

Get some rubber vacuum tubing, make the holes a bit larger and go all the way through the other side, glue lengths of vacuum tubing in the holes as if they were a wall anchor, using silicone adhesive, and then screw the track pieces into the rubber tubing. 

Sounds like a lot of work.

Cue the loud music. 

E.Z.


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## slotnewbie69 (Dec 3, 2008)

doesn't greg braun recommend hemosote board for quiting down a track?check out his door track article.


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

You can always get some of these grandstands and hook em up to each lane.
Over the years, these have proven to be very effective at muffling track noise.


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

Go to a JoAnn Fabric shop if you have one nearby, ask to see the "Marine Vinyl"...imo the ultimate surface cover.

Also, when you screw the track down again, shoot some silicone into the screw holes (in the wood) and try to find a slightly undersized screw...and only screw the track down snug, not tight...might stop at least some of the sound transfer.


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## gonegonzo (Jan 18, 2006)

Grand Cheapy,

I thought of doing what your saying with the carpet. However , I'm using TOMY track and it is soooo miserable to tune without screwing down or fastening somehow. I have the knubs ground off to and it won't lock together now.

I wish I'd have never messed with this door track idea. The main reason I did was to have a stable and sturdy table that didn't flex when moving .

Short of using a welded box tubing frame , there is no way to eliminate the flex on a table that has to go into storage after every race.

Gonzo


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## eastside johnny (May 13, 2008)

Have built several DST's (Door Slab Tracks) & never did screw the track down. Ran a constant bead of hot glue against the outer edge of the track and also glued down cork roadbed at the same time for the track shoulder. The thickness of the hot glue compensated for the cork not being as thick as the track. They never seemed to have much "track noise" (remember that my hearing is shot) so it may be the screws that pass it on to the door which then resonates & amplifies it.


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

gonegonzo said:


> Grand Cheapy,
> 
> I thought of doing what your saying with the carpet. However , I'm using TOMY track and it is soooo miserable to tune without screwing down or fastening somehow. I have the knubs ground off to and it won't lock together now.
> 
> ...


Gonzo,
I'm using Mattel track and have it simply laying on top of a carpet. Very quiet and pretty smooth. But when I tried to screw it down to the plywood below, lots of noise transfer.

How about using folding table legs and a homosote board instead of a door slab (or homosote OVER the door slab)? When you are done with the track, just fold up the legs and put it away. And the homosote is supposed to be a sound deadening material, although I have no experiance with it. If necessary, strengthen the homosote by using some 1x2 cross beams underneath.

Joe


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

How about Velcro?


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## Dslot (Sep 2, 2007)

1. Lay down your favorite soft stuff - carpet, marine vinyl, whatever. I like 30x40 foamcore board. Secure it well to the door-top. 

2. Take some time to get the track positioned like you want it. Use your screws to fasten the track to the door through the soft covering. 

3. Run some cars to test the track for electrical continuity and smoothness. When it's right, back off the screws a few turns to lift the track enough to get a small bloop of silicone sealant under each piece. Tighten the screws back down, not too tight. 

4. After the sealant has set, take out all the screws. Track is fastened to soft stuff by flexible silicone, soft stuff is fastened to door by glue or whatever. No direct rigid connection from track to door for sound to travel down. No need to dissect or fill the door. 

It would probably work even without the soft-stuff surface layer, just siliconing the track directly to the door, but I can't be sure about that. You could test it by siliconing and screwing a simple oval to the door surface. After it sets and you take out the screws, run some cars and see if the noise transmits. To pull up the test oval, run a putty knife under the track to break the silicon bond. (Or just turn the door over and put the real layout on the other side).

Good luck.

-- D


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## 440s-4ever (Feb 23, 2010)

Here's the root physics of what's happening. 

The door has vibration on top, which causes the door to act like a speaker cone and magnify noise. 

When set on something loosely (the unfastened pad) the pad takes the vibration because it gives easier than the door surface. As long as your attachment screws are tight they're going to eliminate the benefit of the pad because the legs are forcing the door to retain the vibration's energy by compressing the pad. 

What happens if you pad between the legs and the door, and don't tighten screws all the way? Just kind of trap everything in place without being tight.

And it may sound crazy, but pendulums are a solution to problems like this. You'd drill a hole in the middle and hang a weight whose hook rested on the top surface. Probably wouldn't take much but those doors aren't real strong. 

If you attach more plywood to the top, consider wiping a layer of non-hardening adhesive and avoiding mechanical fasteners entirely. But don't leave unglued gaps surrounded by glued areas, those will encourage resonation like a speaker box. 

That's the prime risk of foam thru holes, less than 100% fill creates what are effectively speaker boxes within the door.

good luck


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## gonegonzo (Jan 18, 2006)

Now we're getting somewhere. Those are good suggestions. Now I am optomistic again.

Thx Gonzo


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## THX_138 (Jan 27, 2010)

Or............... you could just get a piece of plywood burn the door and solve all your problems


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## gonegonzo (Jan 18, 2006)

Bingo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gonzo


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## tjd241 (Jan 25, 2004)

*Guarnteed Quietest of ANY brand...*

I sketched this up earlier. All you'll need is a long drill bit and a marshal.


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## Dslot (Sep 2, 2007)

Of course, if you screw the track down, the plywood will act as a sounding board for the track vibrations, and you'll be back where you started...

-- D


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## Hilltop Raceway (Feb 12, 2006)

tjd241 said:


> I sketched this up earlier. All you'll need is a long drill bit and a marshal.


I like this idea!!! If this doesn't work, double sided foam tape and earplugs???...RM


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## gonegonzo (Jan 18, 2006)

Well 241 ,

You put a smile on my face in this mass state of frustration I'm in .

I like your sence of humor even if it was cruel . LOL

Gonzo


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## THX_138 (Jan 27, 2010)

Dslot said:


> Of course, if you screw the track down, the plywood will act as a sounding board for the track vibrations, and you'll be back where you started...
> 
> -- D


My track is all screwed down and silent.
Table is 3/4" plywood, all raised sections of track are on 5/8" plywood 
screwed through chunks of various height 2"x4" to the 3/4" table.

I have heard of people trying to use hollow core doors before, but I
could never see the reasoning or logic in even trying.....


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## tjd241 (Jan 25, 2004)

*Take heart Gonzo...*



gonegonzo said:


> You put a smile on my face in this mass state of frustration I'm in.


That's what I was hoping to do. :hat:

One thing is certain. Hollow plastic sectional is imperfect. Nearly any method will likely provide _some_ noise reduction, but _some_ clikety-clack and _some_ type of basic car sliding over plastic sound _has_ to be accepted. It's a subjective thing though. I think it's pretty hard to decide your path, because to you the results are an unknown (would it or could it be better??, etc etc). If you know people who have laid down some track near you... Invite yourself over their house and drop in on them!! See... (or even better yet *hear*) what theirs' is all about. If that's not an option... You're on yer own and you'll have to get some track down and do some 'speramenting. 

For what it's worth... I put a layer of ply on my hollow core door. I adhered the track with latex caulk and a few choo-choo nails. When I was testing that... it sounded like hollow plastic sectional on plywood, but quieter than just running on the plain door. I did not notice any appreciable noise reduction until I covered the surface of the layout where there *wasn't* any track. I landscaped mine right up to the edges of the track though. There is no exposed wood, cracks, or seams. Raised sections are all stuffed with foam rubber and synthetic stuffing. Have you considered covering the negative space on the layout with something? That would likely get you in the same volume range as a landscaped track where typically all the table base is covered.


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

How about filling the back side of each track piece with silicone?
Just goop it in there and scrape it off flat with a ruler.


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## Dslot (Sep 2, 2007)

THX_138 said:


> My track is all screwed down and silent.
> Table is 3/4" plywood, all raised sections of track are on 5/8" plywood
> screwed through chunks of various height 2"x4" to the 3/4" table.


Hi, THX,
Perhaps you just aren't sensitive to that sort of noise. 

I'm not either, actually. When I built my last plywood slot layout in the 80s, I don't remember its being noisy. But then, I never noticed my recent hollow-core door layouts to be noisy either. Model railroaders are always talking about reducing the noise of running on their (mostly) plywood layout tables; likewise, folks complain about the noise of HO slot-running in this forum, so it's something that many people do notice and object to.

To quiet things, the model train guys fasten a resilient roadbed (cork, etc.) to the plywood, then nail/screw the track to the roadbed material without going all the way through to the plywood - or else use adhesive and nail the track down only until it sets. If the nails/screws go all the way down, the track's vibrations will travel down them and the solid top will amplify the sound. 

Though I'd guess that your 3/4" ply would tend to buzz less than thinner wood.


> I have heard of people trying to use hollow core doors before, but I
> could never see the reasoning or logic in even trying.....


I build small, temporary layouts, and try to keep things on the cheap. Buying a 36x70" managably-light, rigid, squared, and infinitely reusable table already assembled and finished for $3 at a garage sale, or even $10 at a second-hand building supply seems much more appealing than buying a 4x8 of 3/4" plywood for $20 or so, cutting it or having it cut, cutting and screwing 1x3 edging and bracing to its underside, and ending with a pile of sawdust and a massive, rough-edged, crushingly heavy, over-engineered 36x70" table-for-the-ages to support my half-ounce T-jets. 

So, that's _my_ reasoning and logic. Others will have their own. I'm not knocking the heavy-table approach for someone with the space, time, cash, tools and desire for a large permanent setup, and who gets good vibes from that reassuring architectural solidity. A hobby is something you do for your own enjoyment in ways that personally satisfy you. :thumbsup:

Cheers,
-- D


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## THX_138 (Jan 27, 2010)

Dslot said:


> A hobby is something you do for your own enjoyment in ways that personally satisfy you. :thumbsup:
> 
> Cheers,
> -- D


Sounds like the hollow core door is not satisfying in this situation:freak:


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## Dslot (Sep 2, 2007)

> Originally Posted by *Dslot*
> A hobby is something you do for your own enjoyment in ways that personally satisfy you.





THX_138 said:


> Sounds like the hollow core door is not satisfying in this situation:freak:


Apparently not for Gonzo, at least not so far. Maybe he'll try the plywood route next and can give us a direct comparison report on the noise issue. 

-- D


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## Joe65SkylarkGS (Feb 15, 2010)

I have been thinking about this very subject. Well not the door part but to quiet my 4 by 16 permanent table.

I think at the depot, in which i'm going in a little while, will have a selection of different type of underlayment materiels. I would like it to be a decent color though. I don't do landscaping so the unused portions will be visible.

I see they have a few different colors in different type of materials for underlayments. It also has to have a nice finished surface. I was hoping for a thin layer of rubber. Like carpet store runners but I can't find any 4 foot wide pieces yet. I will go look and report my results here.


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## Dslot (Sep 2, 2007)

Do they still make those funky utility carpet tiles? They were cheap, self-adhesive and came in a decent dark green, with a tight short pile, intended for garages, old-style rec-rooms, and even indoor-outdoor use, I think. Anyway, the point was, they had rubber under the carpet.

It's been years since I bought any, though.

-- D


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

Joe65SkylarkGS said:


> I have been thinking about this very subject. Well not the door part but to quiet my 4 by 16 permanent table.
> 
> I think at the depot, in which i'm going in a little while, will have a selection of different type of underlayment materiels. I would like it to be a decent color though. I don't do landscaping so the unused portions will be visible.
> 
> I see they have a few different colors in different type of materials for underlayments. It also has to have a nice finished surface. I was hoping for a thin layer of rubber. Like carpet store runners but I can't find any 4 foot wide pieces yet. I will go look and report my results here.


 
Marine vinyl sounds like the _perfect_ choice for you. Got a JoAnn fabric shop nearby?

This shot was for another subject but you can see how nice it is:










The marine vinyl is just slightly strecthy, smooth-backed, and 54" wide. Adds just enough padding to do the job, is very durable, cleans up super-easy, comes in many colors. Do NOT be tempted for cheaper fleece-backed material as you can't get the wrinkles out. The marine vinyl will seem pricey, but you'd spend 3/4 as much to get a nicely finished paint job. With the track off the table, the table clean of dust/debris, and the table sides exposed, you can staple it around the sides and you're good to go. A 4x16 table can be done in a half hour.

:thumbsup:


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## delauder78 (Mar 1, 2010)

get a r/c car and you wont have to worry about it lol\



your son


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## gonegonzo (Jan 18, 2006)

Wise guy !!!!!!! 

Your Dad


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## gonegonzo (Jan 18, 2006)

That marine vinyl looks great.
Gonzo


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

I thought about using the upholstery vinyl in the past, before I decided to go with a full scenic'd layout. 

I think you could use high density foam to create a carved and sculptured underlayment for a semi-scenic'd race track and clad over the sculptured foam in that vinyl fabric. You would probably need an adhesive to bind the vinyl to the foam. 

Some racers are not thrilled with racing on a highly scenic'd (model railroad quality) track but I think a subtly scenic'd one would be very well received. Just adding some dimension in the infield areas and maybe molding in some of the crash walls would be enough and get away from simply having a painted or carpeted surface. If you started in the middle and worked you way out to the edges you could get the vinyl to conform to the foam.


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## bkreaume (Feb 6, 2010)

I have used something like this before on a track and for flooring and it works wonders. no more echos in the floor or the track.

http://www.amazon.com/Roberts-Harmony-3-1-Underlayment/dp/B0026SUN5Q/ref=pd_sim_dbs_hi_5


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## Joe65SkylarkGS (Feb 15, 2010)

Ok so I went here and there. I went with some gray vinyl very similar to the "marine" type SwamperGene pictured above. I went to my local Auto Interior guy and got more than enough to cover the whole 4 by 16 for under 45.00. Regular interior vinyl. 

I'll let you know how it works out.

Not too thick or thin. Just right.


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## Joe65SkylarkGS (Feb 15, 2010)

Well i'm happy to say that the vinyl from my local interior guy did more than I expected!!
Unbelievably quiet!!

It's not nailed down.

Very happy, so now I have to get another 4 by 16 piece for the other table and not only are they smooth and quiet but they look like they professionally done!

Not a pro but I play one in my garage.


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