# Seaview Colors



## starseeker2 (Jun 13, 2008)

Thought I'd start a new thread on this, culling all that I've been able to find in other threads. I'm also editing this Post #1 constantly to summarize any new information, including what follows in this thread. So, let me see if I've got this straight:

Movie Seaviews
Topside: dark grey. FS 36300 is perfect, a close mix would be 50% light ghost grey FS36375 and 50% FS 36320
Bottom: an extremely pale grey that looks white compared to anything else, maybe a mix of JA Army grey FS35630 and Camo grey FS36622.

First season Seaviews
Topside: Dark grey FS 36118, close match Tamiya AS 10, RAF Ocean Grey
Bottom: light grey green, not quite green enough but close is Tamiya AS 16

Flying Sub 8" Seaview
Topside: 
On the season 2 volume 1 dvd special features, the clap board dated 7-18-64 is followed by capture 1 below. 
Capture 2 and the rest below (and the captures on post #8, below) are from another sequence, no clap board for a date, but it looks like the same Seaview as above. 
The top of the deck is a lighter color than any of the rest of the Seaview.
The captures below show the weathering not to be mottled at all, but running in lines the length of the Seaview below the deck and along the side and bottom keels. The dark panel around the limber holes runs the length of the deck. The nose appears to be the lighter color of the mid section of the hull but it's hard to tell with the waves shadowing and rippling. 
(Now pure conjecture on my part) The mottled yecch grey-green-brown surviving nose may have belonged to an 8' miniature that was used for surface shots only. Photos of a very dark 8' miniature on the surface do exist (one posted on #8 below, note the window frames). The photos of the surviving nose of the 8' show something so dark that I just don't believe, despite how intense the lighting, it could look as light as the captures of the 8' miniature used for underwater shots.

Bottom: neutral light grey? The DVD shows the greenish tint that the first season Seaview had, but that may just be an effect of lighting or emulsion. A darker weathering again runs the length of the Seaview, inside the side keels and on either side but not covering the bottom keel. The weathering follows some of the bottom of the manta and dirties the FS hangar cover. 

Flying Sub 17' 
Topside: at some point in the series, medium grey with darker grey trim on sail hatches, missile hatches and raised deck areas, and the brass limber hole frets. (The DVD shows just a uniformly very dark grey Seaview with no details, unfortunately. Not even worth a screen grab.) 

Bottom: neutral light grey

From Jonah and the Whale to David Merriman's restoration, the 17' wore a darker grey walkway (?) on top of the diving planes:
http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/attachment.php?attachmentid=69368&d=1226586638 


Post-restoration 17' (the colors David Merriman used):
Topside: Dupont 131s grey primer
Bottom: white 

All subs?:

The underside of the sail planes was bottom color.

The lower half of the outer 2 rudders and an in-line portion of the middle rudder were bottom color. 


Flying sub:
FS 13538 satin. Blue Angel yellow FS 13655 is a close on-screen match but not quite orange enough for the miniature. Blue Angel Blue FS 15150 is a perfect match for the details. Note that only the ring around the hatch of the top surface was blue. 



The first attach is the TV Guide photo. I can't quite get the color from the magazine to scan properly. And I don't know how it's going to end up on other screens, but just imagine a tinier hint of green on the bottom in the attachment. The other 4 are captures from the DVD.


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## Seaview (Feb 18, 2004)

starseeker2 said:


> Flying sub:
> FS 13538 satin. Blue Angel yellow FS 13655 is a close on-screen match but not quite orange enough for the miniature. Blue Angel Blue FS 15150 is a perfect match for the details.


 
Actually, I think those blue Angle colors you listed are as close as we're going to get to an accurate exterior hull paint job on the FS-1. :thumbsup:
Also, I really wouldn't mind having a flying Sub in THIS size...


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## X15-A2 (Jan 21, 2004)

The un-restored 8-foot Seaview bow that ************* has displays the same type of paint treatment that many of the Gerry Anderson models have. That is, it is not one solid color but rather a mottled scheme of many different colors. The result is an overall model color that looks different from different angles and lighting conditions. It is best described as a combination of greens, blues and browns which, taken together, appear mostly green-gray or blue-gray. You will play marry-Heck trying to duplicate it. A look at the photos of this nose section on my web site will provide further info. In the end, all you can really do is paint your model the color that looks best to you, there is no "right" answer. Refer to my web site page here:

http://www.cloudster.com/Sets&Vehicles/Seaview/8FootModel.htm

Phil Broad


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## starseeker2 (Jun 13, 2008)

Phil, I have so been at your site, which is the very best!


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## AJ-1701 (May 10, 2008)

X15-A2 said:


> You will play marry-Heck trying to duplicate it. A look at the photos of this nose section on my web site will provide further info. In the end, all you can really do is paint your model the color that looks best to you,


In the end that is pretty much what I did with mine. It was an interesting process :freak: trying to emulate what was on screen. In the end I went for a blue-grey tone that felt right with underneath being a greenish off white mix, 60/40 tamiya White to Tamiya JN Grey with a bit of dark brown thrown in to tone it down...


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## sgariepy (Jun 20, 2003)

Now what about the darker stripe on the side at the water intake level that can be seen in season 3 and 4 I think.
Anybody doing that?


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## bert model maker (Feb 19, 2002)

thanks starseeker2 that info helps ! I was wondering about the underside of the sail planes makes sense to have them the same color as the belly.


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## starseeker2 (Jun 13, 2008)

I'm going to try to keep the summary of whatever color info I get in an edited verion of the start post to this thread. I've already made a couple revisions and added some screen captures from the Voyage DVD. Couldn't get the captures to work with Photoshop with any program except Nero, so they have an annoying Pause button stuck into them. A couple more of these captures attached here. Again, these seem to be a Seaview filmed in 1964, getting ready for Season 2.
Note, on 7, the 8' Seaview didn't have the teardrop well for the radar mast, and someone on another thread mentioned that there were anti-skid walkways on the top of the sail planes. That appears to be the joint between the moving plane and the part fixed to the sail.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Great shots, starseeker! Thanks for the captures!


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## Captain Han Solo (Apr 5, 2002)

For the Flying Sub version Seaview, we have a real problem in that whatever the paint colors Fox used 2nd through fourth seasons were, at best to be described as "fugitive." One just can't exactly pin them down without having the original in one's hand. I had attempted to match those colors on the 8 footer nose section while it was briefly in my posession some 15 years or so ago with no luck. No pantone color came close and mixing colors in "Floquil" proved useless. I DID TRY! Incidentally, the four footer in F.S. version was a plain neutral gray when I saw it in December 1975.
What I can tell you is this: The top color is a brownish/slightly greenish grey. This is called from what I understand, a "mired shift" color. No true hue in particular. It changes drastically with the type of light source. That was compounded by the limber hole "plates" the ballast slots on the deck sides as well as all details, hatches doors, etc., and all shading, (there was a lot more of that than a lot of people seem to realize) in a darker and slightly greener shade of grey. It really was most unnattractive. It looked as though it was basically aircraft camoflage but in darker shades. The Model Master SAC colors somewhat darkened may be closer than anything else that I can say.


.. From an E-Mail to me by *************...


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## Seaview (Feb 18, 2004)

"The top color is a brownish/slightly greenish grey. This is called from what I understand, a "mired shift" color. No true hue in particular..."
A theory: the above fairly accurately describes german uniform "Field Grey" ("feldgrau"), having been naturally weathered by being continually immersed in water.


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## starseeker2 (Jun 13, 2008)

I was just going to post those photos of the 8' nose. Well, not those, but ones very much like them.

The question is: when did the yettch color appear? 

I can't believe that the the yettch colors could be the same paint we wee in the effects captures from the DVD. 

The effects captures above are what the Seaview looked like during the 2nd season, at least. Below is a not great scan of the Viewmaster cover for Deadly Creature Below/Escape and it shows the same painting pattern. Somewhere I just read that the same sfx shots were used for Seasons 2 and 3 (and I seem to remember from kidhood that that was excruciatingly true) but that for Season 4 new sfx were filmed. Not having seen Season 4, I don't know if that's true. Does the 8' look different in any new sfx shots in Season 4?

Or could the 8' have been repainted even after the series, perhaps as a test for City Under the Sea, before they decided to mutilate the miniature, or could the nose itself have been repainted, perhaps for use as a 23d century toaster for another Allen production? 

Can the exceedingly dark green/grey/brown currently on that nose possibly be one of the colors in the 2nd season screen grabs? And if so, which one?


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## JohnGuard (Jan 13, 2008)

how about some info on the inside colors?


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## Bob_Whit (Apr 8, 2008)

In season two there appears to be a fairly thin black stripe that runs down the center & around the diver hatch. Anyone know how this actually goes?

As an aside, why do the DVD covers (at least for season two) show the 8 window version, even with the FS?

Thanks


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## bert model maker (Feb 19, 2002)

starseeker2 said:


> I was just going to post those photos of the 8' nose. Well, not those, but ones very much like them.
> 
> The question is: when did the yettch color appear?
> 
> ...


looking at that picture,I just had a great idea, when my seaview is done, I will have to find my EX WIFE and take a picture of her holding it.


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## X15-A2 (Jan 21, 2004)

I had thought too that perhaps the 8-footer was repainted for some other project after "Voyage" until I thought about its two-toned scheme. It still shows the gray underside, if it had been repainted, it would most likely be one solid color. 

The smaller models were used primarily for underwater scenes and in those conditions the colors tend to desaturate and the lighting becomes diffused. This may be why the model has more color and this is also why they had painted-on shadows.


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## Captain Han Solo (Apr 5, 2002)

Also Irwin Allen Didn't really want Seaview Standing out as much with the start of the second season.

He wanted the Flying Sub to get most of the attention(Which it may have since a lot of folks immediately Know the Flying Sub), Personally, although I do love both designs, The eight window Seaview will always be my Favorite.:thumbsup:



BP


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## Admiral Nelson (Feb 28, 2002)

The Seaview colors are so screwed up no one can paint it as it was. The surface model was one color, the undrewater model was another. Even the ballast vents along the hull were a darker color on the underwater model and the vents themselves were different on the two models. Not to mention the window frames on the smaller one. Just paint it what you want.


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## starseeker2 (Jun 13, 2008)

Tim Colliver in his book "Seaview: The Making of VTTBS" says that there were new and unusual shots of the sfx in the 4th season, so I picked out some of his examples and skimmed through the episodes looking for the Seaview. There isn't one shot that I could find of the 8' that doesn't match the screen grabs I posted above. In fact, a lot of the shots are from the sfx footage on the season 2 dvd (but there is a fantastic shot in Cave of the Dead from the rear of the Seaview of the FS approaching it from the front). 
As for the Seaview on the surface, we still have shots of the 17' 20 missile version mixed in the all the rest. 
The thing about the surviving 8' nose: is it solidly that mix of blotchy dark colors above the manta or is the extreme two tone shading that is so visible on the miniature (some highlighting around the windows but very apparent around the sonar domes) visible on that nose? The miniature was painted in stage makeup (not a theater stage either but opera overdone) in order to make its details (the keels, the decks, etc) stand out better in the underwater shoots, make the sub look 3 dimensional. That pattern of shading should stand out unmistakably on the nose in ordinary light conditions, esp around the sonar domes.


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## starseeker2 (Jun 13, 2008)

Admiral Nelson said:


> The Seaview colors are so screwed up no one can paint it as it was.
> 
> It depends. If you're doing a first season Seaview, the 4, 8 and 17 all appear to be the same paint scheme.
> 
> ...


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## mcdougall (Oct 28, 2007)

I painted mine Grey...looks cool
Mcdee


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## Geoff Boaz (Jan 1, 1970)

I'm thinking of going with a very dark-white, or maybe a very very light black.. or somewhere in-between those two hues. :freak:


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## Seaview (Feb 18, 2004)

Admiral Nelson said:


> The Seaview colors are so screwed up no one can paint it as it was. The surface model was one color, the undrewater model was another. Even the ballast vents along the hull were a darker color on the underwater model and the vents themselves were different on the two models. Not to mention the window frames on the smaller one. Just paint it what you want.


 
"You vill shoot Kapitan Craine...you vill shoot Kapitain Craine...you vill shoot Kapitain Craine..."


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

Ya know...We're gonna need a German WWII Era Sub in the same scale as the Seaview. Maybe a little Klaatu Saucer too?


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## starseeker2 (Jun 13, 2008)

D'oh! - what an idiot. I've been assuming that there was only one 8' Seaview. But in the June 1985 issue of Scale Modeler, the author states that Herb Cheek's model shop produced several 4'ers, several 8'ers and only the one 17'. 
It makes total sense that there would be more than one 8', as it was the workhorse miniature of the show. What if it was damaged? (I do now remember reading somewhere that a couple of the 8'ers were rigged to do different things, and as to damage I remember reading that a stuntman did rip the nose off of one miniature during filming.) After all, there were at least 6 or 8 4' Jupiter 2s.
There's a photo of the Seaview on the surface in the booklet that comes with the GNP soundtrack. It's got window frames. It's an 8'. It's very dark in color, possibly the yeeetch color. 
For surface shots, the FS Seaviews were probably colored for sunlight and normal filming. Perhaps the only yeeetch Seaview was an 8' surface Seaview, of which only the nose still exists. If the rest of that Seaview has disappeared, why couldn't entire other Seaviews disappear as well? For underwater shots, the FS Seaviews were probably colored lightly and weathered for filming through water, to show detail, to balance what water did to the lights, etc. The post above with the Deadly Creature Below holding the Seaview, the Seaview is much, much lighter in color than the creature. Photoshopping a sample of the color of the pictures of the 8' nose and of the paint chip post, pure black is about the only color darker than the nose of the 8'. But the creature isn't nearly that dark. 
No, there had to be more than one 8'. It's color didn't change between seasons 2 and 4, their colors remained different from seasons 2 - 4. 
I mean, if the existing nose is one color and the color of the 8' on screen was consistently another color, what's the other option?
So now probably another choice. You have to choose a paint scheme not only based on nose but now whether you want to represent an underwater or surface Seaview??
Edit: Added a scan of the soundtrack album photo of the dark 8' to post #8 above.


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## modelgeek (Jul 14, 2005)

I still think Metalic Purple with flames is a great!!!!! Either that or Gray or Grey!! Geeeze I thought the trekies were picky ...LOL Just a kidding guys ... Jeff


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

mcdougall said:


> I painted mine Grey...looks cool
> Mcdee


God bless ya! :lol:

Hey, who left the coffee cup on the missile deck?


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## starseeker2 (Jun 13, 2008)

David Merriman's coffee cup, I would presume. He seems like a heavily caffeinated type guy. I've got to try it. 



modelgeek said:


> Geeeze I thought the trekies were picky ...LOL Just a kidding guys ... Jeff


You're right - I've been at this way too long. I just photoshopped color matches from the screen captures, got pantone #s for the best matches that I could get, was just searching for a way of matching them with anything FS. Way too much time. I give up.


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

starseeker2 said:


> "....After all, there were at least 6 or 8 4' Jupiter 2s."


NO... Their were 2 for sure, and one rumored one. Hero, Pod Dropper, and a possible Pyro abuse version.


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## JohnGuard (Jan 13, 2008)

can someone post color suggestions for the interior ????
pleaseeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!


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## Captain Han Solo (Apr 5, 2002)

JohnGuard said:


> can someone post color suggestions for the interior ????
> pleaseeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!


 
Buy The DVDS.

Get The second Season. As you watch, Make yourself notes. The best way(IMHO).


BP


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## starseeker2 (Jun 13, 2008)

Y3a said:


> NO... Their were 2 for sure, and one rumored one. Hero, Pod Dropper, and a possible Pyro abuse version.


See post 2: http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=222276

And who knows the site that shows the grabs from City Beneath the Sea that highlight about 6 4' Jupiter 2s converted into buildings? I saw it last week and now I can't find it again. Sigh.

As for Pod Dropper, the smallest pod miniature I've heard of is about 16". If that was the 4' J2, then there was a pod that was about 5" at best. More likely that was the 10' J2.


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## Ignatz (Jun 20, 2000)

What were we talking about? :freak:

I've got to watch the eps again. Is the deck really dk. sea blue? It's listed as Model Masters Enamel #1717. I also found a reference to Humbrol Enamel #181 and to Tamiya XF-17. I thought it was a dark grey, like Gunship Grey.


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## Captain Han Solo (Apr 5, 2002)

Ignatz said:


> What were we talking about? :freak:
> 
> I've got to watch the eps again. Is the deck really dk. sea blue? It's listed as Model Masters Enamel #1717. I also found a reference to Humbrol Enamel #181 and to Tamiya XF-17. I thought it was a dark grey, like Gunship Grey.


 
NO the deck IS NOT Dk Sea Blue.

The deck color I used is called Real Blue. And it's glossy. That's the color MY eyes came up with, Based on the DVDS AND STIll Pictures.


BP


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

Hull blanks? They only built out 2 -4 foot hulls. A Gear version, and a pod dropper. 

The 10 foot model was NEVER USED IN THE LIS TV SHOW. Any info on those supposed other 4 foot hulls? were they done AFTER LIS was cancelled?


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## starseeker2 (Jun 13, 2008)

How do you know? What's your reference for that? I'd love to know more about the 10". All I have is what's written at this site: http://jupiter2.freeyellow.com/10foot/10ftj2.htm
and it's anything but definitive. I've never heard of a 5 or 6" space pod miniature, but I've seen pictures of one approx 16" tall, which would scale perfectly to the 10'. Hard to believe they'd make the 10' right down to the working hatches and landing gear and never to have filmed it for anything.

Anyway, we do have the 1985 Scale Modeler article that states that several 8' Seaviews were made. I wonder who the author, Robert Lewandoski, is/was and what his sources were. His material appears to come from interviews with some of the principals and covers much the same stuff as Tim Colliver later did in his Making of VTTBS, tho not with as much detail. Different Seaviews would explain how the 8' could be different colors at the same time. Or it could have been the same 8', re-painted after all the underwater sfx were filmed before the 2nd season, filmed to match surface shots of the 17'. Something we'll never know.


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

Starseeker. I've been blathering about the Jupiter 2 since the 1990's. I have found that plans and scripts and shooting schedules had entries that they NEVER produced. they DID build the 10 foot Jupiter 2. VERY HEAVY, Large and difficult to work with. The only Jupiter 2 that went missing is the small 10 " model. The 2 four footers exist, and the 10 footer exists. No details exist for the J2 Hulls used in City Beneath the Sea. All you have is a film record. 


Fan produced 'documentation' is prone to mistakes and embellishments. I wait til I see 2-3 references where the writers DIDN'T share info back n forth. In the past years the Jupiter 2 has REALLY BEEN DISCUSSED A LOT! Shape, what happened to the models, HOW the mechanics worked, What model was filmed where..bla-bla-bla...


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## Seaview (Feb 18, 2004)

A plausable theory about the missing 10" Jupiter II model was that it was residing in Irwin Allens' office when it burned to the ground in the Hollywoood Hills fire back in the 1980's. 
I believe that one of the 4' Seaviews perished in the same fire, quite possibly the same one that was used in Admiral Nelson's office in the feature film, and later seen in the bow observation room during the first season.


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## starseeker2 (Jun 13, 2008)

starseeker2 said:


> What's your reference for that?
> 
> So (unless your attachment allotment is full) none. Not even any links? That's what I thought. Me, either. In all these years, I've never seen anything from anyone even peripherally connected with the making of the show who's mentioned the existence of a 10' miniature. Let alone what the 10' did or didn't do, or what it was or wasn't used for. If it wasn't for Phil Broad perhaps the reality of the 10' would have remained undiscovered forever. Just think of the stuff that must be in the Fox landfills.
> 
> ...


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## X15-A2 (Jan 21, 2004)

There were two "Pod" models that personally saw at the studio, one was about 8 inches high and the other was about 30 inches high. The big model was in a plexiglass display case which indicates uses beyond FX (although I have no doubt that it was used for filming). I think that the fellow at the studio told me that the model had been used as a display at a "Board of Directors" meeting or some such studio business conference so they had put it in that case. Some time later it appeared on display at "Marineland" along with the 8-foot seaview. The small model was on a shelf in the office of the fellow who ran the Prop/Miniature shop. Now, this was 30 years ago so the sizes are based on memories which are quite "stale". A look at the plans would probably provide sufficient information to figure out exactly how big they were (by deciding the nearest scale to those sizes). The small one was probably to scale with the 4-foot J2 while the big one may have been scaled to the 10-foot model.

As far as the 10-foot model is concerned, they built it so they used it. The studio would not build a costly model like that and not use it. They had a specific set of needs in mind when they authorized its construction and you can be certain that those needs were met. Generally speaking, I doubt that it would have been used for "flying" shots because it was so heavy but it may well have launched the big "Pod". The studio did have a rather substantial crane/arm on the roof of the Mill which looks like it was used to swing models in an arc for filming against real sky BGs and it was probably plenty strong enough to handle the 10-foot J2. This crane is visible in some shots of the Mill where it doubles as the "Nelson Institute" in VTTBOTS or where it is used as an airport in the same show. There is one LIS shot in particular that I'm thinking of where the J2 flies past and the camera pans to follow it against a sky BG. This might be the 10-footer on the crane rig. There are probably others but I'd have to go back through the series to look for possible shots.


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

The smaller pod was in scale with the 4 foot pod dropper J2. That model had no gear. It was locked off and filmed just like the Seaview/FS-1 bit with a small winch lowering the model out of the bay. 

The larger pod was to establish scale, and that model had the working antenna bits. There would be no reason to rig up TWO DIFFERENT pod dropping arrangements when teh oneon teh 4 footer worked fine. 

The 10 footer MAY HAVE BEEN BUILT, but when they tried to use it, the 10 foot job proved to be to large to work with. The tests proved it was not usable for the requirements, and with a re-write of the script, the Cyclops scenes were cut. Remember that the 10 foot Jupiter 2 weighed over 300 pounds!


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## Ignatz (Jun 20, 2000)

Can we still talk about Seaview colors? :hat:


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## X15-A2 (Jan 21, 2004)

Y3a, you speak with such certainty. What is your source of information? The 10 foot J2 was too big to work with? Do you know how big the largest Seaview was? Do you know how big the Battleships were for "Tora, Tora, Tora" or how big the "Poseidon" was for "The Poseidon Adventure"? 300 pounds is nothing compared to the other models that Fox was building and using. Still, that doesn't prove that it was used but so far I haven't seen any evidence that it wasn't used, just opinion. I would be interested to learn the facts of the matter.


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

Actually, their is no proof it WAS used. I have heard from someone who dug thru the shooting schedules, scripts etc, and couldn't ever find a reference to the 10 foot model being used in a scene that was actually shot. You've seen the SPFX shots from Lost in Space Forever? Some of the clips you saw were NEVER USED in LIS, but they were filmed. Also remember LIS didn't have a big SPFX budget, and they used THAT UP pretty fast. They weren't gonna use the big cranes. The 4 foot model was on a 50 foot mike boom. The supporting wires provided power for the gear. 2 batteries on the model provided the motor and lights power. Both L.B.Abbott and Lydecker spoke of a control panel for the J2. Never even seen a picture. All the rest of the SPFX stuff ws very crude. Simple 1960's era technology. 

June Lockhart said they used a 10 footer to crash at the pinnicles. two crewmen said otherwise. I have seen photos of a 2 foot model held where the 4 footer would have been, and YUP, looks half the size of the 4 foot model. 

Being that I've been a Jupiter 2 fanatic since LIS was originally on, (4th - 6th grade) I've been collecting stuff for decades.
I have the L.B.Abbot Book, and lots of junk off the web. I wanted to know how the J2 worked as a SPFX model. didn't find anything useful until mid-1980's. I have Cinefex since the beginning too, even though they really never discusses Irwin Allen or SPFX side of any of his movies/Tv shows.


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## Ductapeforever (Mar 6, 2008)

Might be a good idea to move this to a J2 thread or LIS.


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## Ignatz (Jun 20, 2000)

I think Beatlepaul is right. I got a bottle of Testor's MM Dark Sea Blue and it looks WAY off compared to what I see in the series DVD. Now I'm starting to question the rest of the callout sheet that was supplied with the kit. This totally sux as I am in the middle of doing a conversion chart for a couple of paint lines not included in the sheet. 

I'm getting that sinking, "back to square one" kinda feeling... :freak:


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## Ductapeforever (Mar 6, 2008)

WARNING: Although a valient effort, on the part of Moebius , I recommend ignoring the paint callout sheet and use your own eyes and season 2 DVDs for reference. This is not a dig against Moebius, simply an observation that most kit manufacturers make the same critical mistakes during research. Still my vote for the best kit....EVER!


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## kit-junkie (Apr 8, 2005)

Ductapeforever said:


> WARNING: Although a valient effort, on the part of Moebius , I recommend ignoring the paint callout sheet and use your own eyes and season 2 DVDs for reference. This is not a dig against Moebius, simply an observation that most kit manufacturers make the same critical mistakes during research. Still my vote for the best kit....EVER!


 How do you know the color is correct on your television? 

Here's what I can tell you for sure, being a graphics and web guy: Computer monitors--all of them--need to be calibrated regularly to display colors correctly. Televisions are very much the same. The colors change, maybe not drastically, but they change over time. Colors are even different from set to set, in the same brand, when the sets are new. 

What I'm trying to get at is you cannot be sure of the colors when looking at them on screen. I would take the word of the team of people involved in reasearching and producing the model (some considered experts on the subject), before I'd trust my television.

That's just my biased opinion.


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## bert model maker (Feb 19, 2002)

You just have to paint what looks correct to your eyes The PL Jupiter 2 colors were way off BUT, Bob perovich created the PERFECT paint scheme and is also working on one for this seaview using his DVD's. He knows what he is doing and if anyone can get the colors nailed Bob is the guy to get it done.


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## Ductapeforever (Mar 6, 2008)

KIT junkie is correct, CRT screens distort colors, as do studio lights and filters. Which is why lighting directors get paid the big bucks. LCD screens are a bit (No pun intended) more accurate but the key is to paint to please your eye and perception. Sometimes kit instructions call for a color that is just flat out wrong or way off. So the bottom line here is to paint any model to look pleasing to you and how you remember it or what looks right to you! Have fun...it's not rocket science.


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## Ignatz (Jun 20, 2000)

Thanks for the observations guys. I know with the inherent variability of monitors and other reproduction media, we will not know what was used to color the interior set. But I'm no rivet counter by any means. As long as it's in the ball-park, I'll be satisfied.

But I do wonder, the paint callouts in the Moebius-supplied literature had to come from _somewhere_. They weren't simply made-up, were they?


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## Captain Han Solo (Apr 5, 2002)

Hi Guys.

When I was painting my Sub,I made time for research.
I cross referenced many Different episodes Of Voyage to eliminate the possibility of error..Like the Floor of the Seaview.The color of the Hull, Keel, the Flying Sub ETC...And actually TALKED to several people who actually Have had the Miniature in their posession and recorded all it's details.Research is all part of the Fun(for me anyway), weather it be a Sci-Fi subject or Real Life subject.

It is clearly seen in Many episodes as a Gloss Blue(makes sense, easier to clean:thumbsup..This is not a dig on the Instructions in the sheet, or to whoever came up with the colors..In fact you can build and paint a very attractive model right out of the box, Using the recommended colors ETC..which ,I think ,was Moebius plan anyway.

However I went the extra Mile(or two) to get it as close to the Original Miniature/stage set as possible.And had/Have fun doing it

High Regards,
BP


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## Ignatz (Jun 20, 2000)

I was rewatching the second season ep: "Jonah and the Whale, and approx. 17 min, 11. seconds into it, there is an FX shot of the Seaview mini coming towards and below the camera, diving. I can see 2 distinct, bands on the sail planes, darker than the hull color. The bands are quite wide, nearly as wide is one of the sail doors I would estimate. Has there been any documentation on this? I know it was mentioned and perhaps dismissed as the split line between the plane and the sail. But it's quite wide and distinct.


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## falcondesigns (Oct 30, 2002)

It is there and look like a walk way.alexander


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## Lou Dalmaso (Jul 13, 2004)

plus you gotta remember, this was the era of Batman and Star Trek. Color was a new thing on TV and shows were produced with a much higher saturation of colors so that the networks could show off.

It wouldn't be out of place to go a little "overboard" (pardon the pun) with your color choices.


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

When you think of all the shots of the flying sub dropping from the Seaview, what color did you imagine it was.. The Seaview that is. I think I saw that Khaki/brown/gray medium color. The one that looks darkest in the phtoo comparing all 8 footer noses.


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## Ignatz (Jun 20, 2000)

Yeah. But I'm sure the water would've affected how the color looked. I'm thinking a dot weathering treatment will help modulate the base color enough to simulate the variations seen in some of the photos of the miniatures.


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## LGFugate (Sep 11, 2000)

As David Merriman, whom we all hold as the wisest of all concerning all things Seaview has said, the shots taken under water will be primarily blue-affected. Water filters out the red in "white" light, so stuff looks more blue than above water.


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## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

LGFugate;2436891 David Merriman said:


> Despite what "we" may think, Dave Merriman defers to ************* on his particular subject. And with good reason.


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## bert model maker (Feb 19, 2002)

Speaking of colors as they look on tv & film, I was watching Gomer Pyle U.S.M.C. and noticed that the military GREEN fatiques they were wearing look more BLUE than they do Green. The lights used in filming plus the sometimes change the way a color looks. ( my color is perfectly tuned on my tv btw )


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## Captain Han Solo (Apr 5, 2002)

Carson Dyle said:


> Despite what "we" may think, Dave Merriman defers to ************* on his particular subject. And with good reason.


 

:thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Ignatz said:


> Can we still talk about Seaview colors? :hat:


Why would you wanna do that? :freak:


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## falcondesigns (Oct 30, 2002)

Too much talking,not enough building,move on.alexander


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## Jaruemalak (Jun 12, 2008)

Having been a photographer for many years, I can also say for certain that the film itself will NOT necessarily give an accurate representation of color. Some of the uniforms on the original Star Trek are a good example. A gold colored shirt was recorded as green on the kind of film used. And as film ages, colors shift. 

And often paint fades or changes color as it ages, so even if we do have an original prop, it may not be the exact color it was 40 years ago. I'm starting to think a "best guess" is the way to go. 

On with the building!


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## Ignatz (Jun 20, 2000)

But-- I'm talking _and_ building!


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## Jaruemalak (Jun 12, 2008)

Ignatz said:


> But-- I'm talking _and_ building!


I tried that once and glued my fingers to the bottom of the Spindrift...


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## Seaview (Feb 18, 2004)

model maker said:


> Speaking of colors as they look on tv & film, I was watching Gomer Pyle U.S.M.C. and noticed that the military GREEN fatiques they were wearing look more BLUE than they do Green. The lights used in filming plus the sometimes change the way a color looks. ( my color is perfectly tuned on my tv btw )


 
I have the same problem concerning my DVD's of Hogan's Heroes; in some episodes I find that Klink and Schultz's uniforms appear GREEN when they are in fact Luftwaffe field Blue. However, their fleshtones are correct in the same episodes.


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

The original ST uniforms were actually green and appeared as gold.


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## AJ-1701 (May 10, 2008)

THe origional technicolor movies required very pale pinks to be worn so that they came out white on the theatre released film emulstions. :freak:


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## Ignatz (Jun 20, 2000)

Yeah. Film emulsions don't record all colors with equal veracity. And then there's the uneven effect of aging compounding that. Go with what you know--or what you see, whatever floats your boat.


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## bert model maker (Feb 19, 2002)

Ignatz said:


> Yeah. Film emulsions don't record all colors with equal veracity. And then there's the uneven effect of aging compounding that. Go with what you know--or what you see, whatever floats your boat.


or sub, thats why the seaview colors look so different to different people having to be filtered under water.


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## sgariepy (Jun 20, 2003)

In an earlier post i asked about a darker strip along the ballast water intake.I have these two shots that clearly show them. Also someone else asked about two sripes on top of the diving plane: these can also be seen clearly on some other shots. I will put them on my model.
I guess i should point out that these pictures are from disc 3 of Voyage second season vol.1 bonus feature showing sfx shots.


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## Ignatz (Jun 20, 2000)

That's a very soft line. I think it was painted to give some depth and variation in the hull color. I would be doing something similar. It can probably be achieved with pre-shading. 
I'm trying "True Blue" for the control room floor. It's lighter and a more desaturated color than "Real Blue", but I think with an oil weathering, it will look pretty good.


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## MML (Apr 20, 2008)

Guys, how did you paint the transition between the two hull colours? Did you do a sharp line or blur it a bit? 
I haven't started my kit yet but it looks like it would be awkward to mask the line with tape.


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## falcondesigns (Oct 30, 2002)

It is a sharp line,why would you think otherwise?alexander


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## jbond (Aug 29, 2002)

I think he's talking about the transition between the two grays (actually in the photos the darker gray looks particularly blue) on the hull, and the answer is both--if you look at the photos clearly there's a sharp line near the top of the "superstructure" (which gives the superstructure the look of a darker gray panel that runs along most of the length) the lower edge is soft--and is sprayed past the bottom of the superstructure onto the hull as part of the shading effects. Interesting effect...


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## Tim Nolan (Jul 9, 2008)

I'm an airbrush artist, and I do a lot af gradiation blends with it, which gives a nice effect. Ever see how a shark, ray, or dolphins belly and body colors just blend nicely, but still have a bit of a line effect? The Seaview is obviously designed after a combination of seagoing animals, so why not? Of course, if you want an "exact" copy just like the other 9 zillion kits that will be built, 3M makes a nice flexible tape you can pick up at your local automotive paint shop, which you can use to do the line, then back it up with some 3M blue masking tape and newspaper to cover the rest. I plan on using the airbrush to make hilites on the hull one I shoot the whole thing.  Anything that's been in the water a few days, will have not only growth on it, but will start to have discolorations in all of the cracks and crevices and points of weld. Take it from someone who's spent a good deal of thier life in the Atlantic Ocean, that's just he way it is! (And the fact that I don't like doing clones!)


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## jbond (Aug 29, 2002)

I'd love to see something that shows some realistic aging and combines that with the Seaview's somewhat fanciful color scheme.


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## falcondesigns (Oct 30, 2002)

Now I have to do the other wall.These are not for sale,they are for my Seaview build.alexander


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

^Nice!
Seemed less trouble to me just to drill holes for fiber optics, though.


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## falcondesigns (Oct 30, 2002)

Thanks,John,yes but I wanted more of a glow.I did'nt want to use a lot of FO.I'll see if it works,if not I'll start drilling!


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## Tim Nolan (Jul 9, 2008)

Nice casting work, and I bet that sucker will light up beautifully!


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## starseeker2 (Jun 13, 2008)

Ignatz said:


> I was rewatching the second season ep: "Jonah and the Whale, and approx. 17 min, 11. seconds into it, there is an FX shot of the Seaview mini coming towards and below the camera, diving. I can see 2 distinct, bands on the sail planes, darker than the hull color. The bands are quite wide, nearly as wide is one of the sail doors I would estimate. Has there been any documentation on this? I know it was mentioned and perhaps dismissed as the split line between the plane and the sail. But it's quite wide and distinct.


Indeed, you are right. Here's a screen grab. From the teardrop shaped radar antenna well, this looks like it was the 17'. The walkway doesn't show up on the early 17' and it wasn't there when Dave Merriman got it. Could be part of a mid-series repainting?? 

And editing the first post in this thread to include this.


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## david merriman (Jun 6, 2002)

starseeker2 said:


> Indeed, you are right. Here's a screen grab. From the teardrop shaped radar antenna well, this looks like it was the 17'. The walkway doesn't show up on the early 17' and it wasn't there when Dave Merriman got it. Could be part of a mid-series repainting??
> 
> And editing the first post in this thread to include this.


During the restoration I found these 'darker' gray strips on the sail planes and the sides of the superstructure, once I abraded away the sloppy attempts at restoration on or around the time of the miniatures availability to public viewing in California.

The 17 footer's sail planes, for the FS conversion anyway, were permanently affixed to the sail. I believe that on or about the time of the studio conversion from movie to FS version of the big miniature a new sail and planes were fabricated and installed. There were no artifacts within the sail to indicate alteration from movable to fixed planes. Apparently when the miniature got a new bow (internal GRP work a sure sign of that) it also got a new sail and planes to fit.

However, in the later episodes the inboard edge of the dark strip atop the planes would have denoted the demarcation split between sail fairings and sail planes. The planes were not practical, but they were painted to seem so.

David,


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## starseeker2 (Jun 13, 2008)

David: Thanks!


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Those look like no slip strips for walking on.


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## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

That would make sense with a hatch door right there. Good call PC.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Trekkriffic said:


> That would make sense with a hatch door right there. Good call PC.


Thanks!

I walked on that stuff (kind of an epoxy/asphalt mix) enough while in the Navy.


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

On another thread the other day, someone asked if anyone had the painting guide that came with a Seaview kit. Having thrown mine out as it was utterly useless, I thought he might want hints as to what the Seaview was actually painted. Apparently not. My response also threw the thread off topic into a discussion of the Seaview miniatures colors. Since this thread is all about the Seaview miniature colors, I thought I’d re-visit it.
The summary of what I’ve been able to piece together is still in the 1st post on page 1 of this thread, tho' I've got to update it soon. 

It’s been a while so I’ll summarize my sources. 
First, David Merriman had the 17' four window miniature in his possession for five years as he restored it. The colors he matched the 17' to were Dupont 131s grey primer for the upper surfaces and pure white, no tints of any kind, for the bottom surfaces. (Source I didn’t note but likely a Cultman thread.)

Then Andy Bendel contacted Mr. Merriman, who actually send Mr. Bendel what he thought were chips of the Original 1961 colors from inside the hull, which he believed hadn’t been overpainted. As for fading over the decades, impossible to say. Mr. Bendel had the colors computer matched and said that the grey upper surface closely matched the shade in the old TV Guide photos. But the bottom surface looked white until you held a piece of white paper up to it, and in contrast (and only in contrast) the bottom surfaces looked very, very light grey. “And when you remove the paper - presto - the keep color sample looks white again... that is by Merriman told you the color was simply ‘white’... it’s now clear to me that the keel was...intended to look white on film, just painted with a toned-down shade that would on an Eastman color release print, yield the look of white.”

Mr. Bendel sent chips of the colors to Gary Kerr. Mr. Kerr matched the chips to FS Standard samples. Mr. Kerr’s FS estimates are the colors noted in the first post of this thread. Topside: "FS36375 is a close match - just a shade lighter" and belly: "FS 35630 was jst a shade dark". Mr. Kerr took digital photos of the chips and swatches and posted them all at Cultman, while noting the difficulty of matching colors on a computer monitor at the best of times.
Source: Cultman Modelling thread or article sometime around 2006-08. 

************* steps in next, in what I believe is a thread from Hobbytalk. His color estimates are from an original copy of the 1965 TV Guide photos. Mr. Lubliner states that the 1965 topside color is a “dead ringer for federal standard color #FS36118 and that the underside is a light grey-green, close to Tamiya AS16. He believes that these are the same colors carried over from the movie. 
Mr. Lubliner describes the changes to the 8' Flying Sub version as “mired (mucky) grey’green brown or yeccch... the underside was a neutral light grey. His source here is from an examination of the remains of the 8' miniature. The definitive description of this paint scheme can be found on a Hobbytalk thread:
http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=320432. 
He says that the 17' was painted the same colors, “devoid of shading”. 

Gary Kerr (on the same Hobbytalk thread - yeah, like you guys make notes detailing the where’s and whens of your sources) agrees with the Mr. Lubliner’s description of the 8' FS Seaview’s paint scheme. And “I’ve seen color photos of the 17' ...at the Planes of Fame and Cars of the Stars Museum in 1977 and the topside was painted in the same dark grey color that Paul described.
“On the other hand...screen grabs...up through the first half of the 3d season [show] both versions sport[ing] a different topside color scheme: the upper hull appears to be a medium grey, with darker grey trim on the sail hatches, along the ballast slots, on the missile hatches & raised spine between them, and on the anti-skid walkways on the sail planes.
“The models were evidently repainted numerous times over the years. On Paul’s casting, I can make out the paint build-up on the hull... The question is, when did the 2-tone grey... change to the overall dark grey color? Was it during the 3rd or 4th season, or after the series ended? [the 8' was eventually hacked up for use in other projects and who knows what else happened to it in the interval.]
“At his website, Phil Broad has b&w photos of the 17'... and the model doesn’t appear as dark as when it was hanging from the ceiling... Perhaps Phil could post his thoughts re. The color of the sub when he saw it in the ‘70s".

Clearly there have been many changes to the paint scheme of the Seaview miniatures over the years. One of the first things you learn when researching models is that pictures lie. Can you trust the colors in photos reproduced in a 1965 TV Guide any more than you could in a 1965 Popular Mechanics or National Geographic? And how does the eye interpret them? To my eye, the 1965 TV Guide photos show that all the miniatures were painted the same colors. The green on the bottom could be a reflection of green water on a white surface or a color shift anywhere along the line from the light source to the printing. That the 17' might appear lighter in shade than the 4' to some eyes, if real, could also be the best example of “scale color” that I’ve seen to date.
Even if the miniatures existed today unretouched from 1961, 1963, or 1967, would they help? The 17' was filmed outside, and possibly stored outside with the Chariot, the full size Jupiter 2, and all the other large Fox props. Your cherry red 1971 Mustang - what color would it be now depending on how or if it had been stored? 
I hope that all the individuals named above would weigh in on this one. Not only have we got three of the most talented and gifted modellers ever, with considerable knowledge of the subject, they're also passionate communicators. Not that the "real" colors matters so very much - any modeller worth their salt is going to paint their models what looks right to their eyes - but it would be fun to know more and keep the discussion going.


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## Super 7 (Aug 14, 2004)

*You asked for it!*

Please delete.


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## Captain Han Solo (Apr 5, 2002)

please delete.


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## Super 7 (Aug 14, 2004)

*State your name*

please delete


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## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

Looking forward to a great discussion amongst these three gurus of the Seaview. This will hopefully be the definitive thread I will refer to when I go to build my big sub.


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## Super 7 (Aug 14, 2004)

please delete


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## Fernando Mureb (Nov 12, 2006)




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## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

What did I say??? 


Regards,
Steve Jurgens


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## Seaview (Feb 18, 2004)

Sigh.


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

I feel like I missed something...


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## solex227 (Apr 23, 2008)

yeah the colors for the seaview lol :tongue: at least thats what I came in here to read .. always good to read a lot of interesting oppions and get great Ideas. I just wish we could do that without members getting upset... there is so much we can learn from one another.. :thumbsup:


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

For me, I always paint my model to suit my own eye. I look at the source, in this case the filming miniatures, and determine what color it is and go from there. Often the color of the miniature is not the same color that the film captures. I personally would never paint the Enterprise D pale blue and dark blue, yet that is what the miniature was even though it appeared gray on TV.

Exchanging advice here is fun, but to me there is no right way to do it, it all depends on the individual builder.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

RSN said:


> For me, I always paint my model to suit my own eye. I look at the source, in this case the filming miniatures, and determine what color it is and go from there. Often the color of the miniature is not the same color that the film captures. I personally would never paint the Enterprise D pale blue and dark blue, yet that is what the miniature was even though it appeared gray on TV.
> 
> Exchanging advice here is fun, but to me there is no right way to do it, it all depends on the individual builder.


Yeah, I have to admit that if the actual colors an effects model had were interesting and looked really good, I'd go with that over the way it appeared on film. That's very handy when it comes to the 1701 which varied quite a bit in on-screen appearance.

However, if a ship were painted something that just doesn't look right on a model and I think the onscreen look is nice, I'm going with the onscreen look.


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

PerfesserCoffee said:


> Yeah, I have to admit that if the actual colors an effects model had were interesting and looked really good, I'd go with that over the way it appeared on film. That's very handy when it comes to the 1701 which varied quite a bit in on-screen appearance.
> 
> However, if a ship were painted something that just doesn't look right on a model and I think the onscreen look is nice, I'm going with the onscreen look.


If you meant what I think you meant and you were talking about the original 1701, no bloody A, B, C, or D, then yes I agree. Sometimes on screen shots do not give you a consistant color to go by until the third season. But even with her, there is a debate about the proper shade of gray. I go with one that looks good and appeals to my eye.


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## tardis1916 (Mar 24, 2004)

In case anyone ever needs it, here is a scan of the instructions for the revised TV series Seaview model.


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