# Off topic I need some ebay seller help



## [email protected] (Jan 31, 2010)

On June 16th, 2013 I sold a sterilizer for $1495. The gentleman paid on June 20th. I went to a Fed Ex authorized pack and ship store and had them package and ship it to the guy with the appropriate insurance and tracking information. We used the address from his paypal account to ship it. It was delivered July 2nd and then redelivered July 5th due to the wrong address he had given me. It was delivered to 3 different addresses and between the 2nd and 3rd lost 1 lb of weight. I hear nothing till July 30th when he tells me that the unit was badly damaged in shipping and that it is not useable. He sends me pictures of it all smashed. I ask if he has the original packaging and he states "no, that they threw it away". I made a claim with Fed Ex and two weeks go by and they deny it saying that the pack and ship store needs to make a claim. They started their claim 2 weeks ago and I still have no answer. The guy is threatening of opening a case with ebay, paypal and his credit card company if I do not refund his money. He can no longer make a claim with ebay or paypal because it has been longer than 60 days. I also can no longer make a refund with paypal because it has been so long. The only thing I could do would be to send money through paypal to him. Which means I'm also out my ebay and paypal fees, along with the price of shipping. 
What do I do?

I try to be as honest and straight as I can. I want to help the guy but feel like I'm going to lose out. If I send him money I am afraid that he will say I just sent him money and still make a claim with the credit card company and get his money back again. Also if I refund his money he gets the money and the sterilizer. If i ask him to send the sterilizer back it voids the insurance with FedEx. Please give me some ideas of what to do or do I just let him try and make a claim? He did give me a cell phone number i can also view his business online.


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## Harold Sage (Apr 6, 2008)

Hi [email protected]
I don't want to say your being scammed but it seems close to it.

First-he sends you the wrong address which cause's more handling (Never Good)

Second- Why didn't he take pictures of it in the box smashed. I've gotten some smashed boxes and taken pictures of it before I opened it up. Luckily the items inside were small and didn't get damaged.

Third- Why the long wait after he receives it to tell you it's damaged. Did he not notice it when he received it.He should of started complaining right off the start.

I know your trying to do the right thing with this guy, But it does sound a little fishy on his part.


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## 1976Cordoba (Sep 20, 2000)

Let the claims sort it out. It's his problem anyway for supplying the wrong address. You sold it, insured it and shipped it - your part is done.


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## rdm95 (May 8, 2008)

Tell him where to go..end of story


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## tjetsgrig (Nov 1, 2009)

1976Cordoba said:


> Let the claims sort it out. It's his problem anyway for supplying the wrong address. You sold it, insured it and shipped it - your part is done.


BINGO!!!! You've held up your end of the bargain, its time for him to do some legwork! My guess is he'll go away........

JS


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## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

what doba AND sgrig said. don't be afraid of the credit card company either.


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## Jisp (Oct 19, 2008)

1976Cordoba said:


> Let the claims sort it out. It's his problem anyway for supplying the wrong address. You sold it, insured it and shipped it - your part is done.


I can't possibly see it any other way.... mate, your part is done. The shipping company accepted the item, packaged it and shipped it with insurance. The clown on the receiving end can't get his act together enough to ensure that the delivery address is correct? On such a high value purchase?

Jeepman, I understand any seller wanting a sale to turn out for the best but I think this has is way past the point of your control. Politely (or not) tell him to shove it and suggest he takes it up with FE insurance. It's not your problem. Keep us posted.
:thumbsup:


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## [email protected] (Jan 31, 2010)

I'm kind of feeling that he is trying to scam me. 

He stated it took him so long to open it as he was stock piling equipment for his new location. Which I could see but, anything I buy I check when I receive it. 

I will probably offer a refund but only after I receive the item and he covers shipping back. I can at least feel better about the transaction as I tried to do the right thing. He cannot even leave feedback anymore, but it will make me feel like I tried to do the right thing.


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## tjetsgrig (Nov 1, 2009)

You've already done the "right thing"! Keep us posted JM!

JS


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## slotcarman12078 (Oct 3, 2008)

Does this item have a serial number on it? I would verify by video that the item he says is damaged is the item you shipped. I would also let the pack and ship place cover the damage. That is what insurance is for. If he unpacked it and threw away the packaging, he should have noticed it was damaged then. Waiting this long and after the packaging was tossed sounds fishy to me, like a total scam. DO NOT send him any money! I would make sure the pack and ship store verifies the serial number if the item had one, and if he's too late to file the claim, that's his problem.


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

I also vote for a scam. Have you checked his previous eBay feedback? See any problems there?

You mention he says about the packaging "They threw it away". Who are "THEY"? FedEx or someone who "works" for him?

Let the procces work it's way through. Right now you have the upper hand because you have the money. You give up all your leverage if you refund anything. Do not do anything that is irreversable - including asking him to return the unit.

Joe


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## rdm95 (May 8, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> I'm kind of feeling that he is trying to scam me.
> 
> He stated it took him so long to open it as he was stock piling equipment for his new location. Which I could see but, anything I buy I check when I receive it.
> 
> I will probably offer a refund but only after I receive the item and he covers shipping back. I can at least feel better about the transaction as I tried to do the right thing. He cannot even leave feedback anymore, but it will make me feel like I tried to do the right thing.


Dude, you dont owe him anything.. Scammers try to play on yr sympathy or weakness to get money from their victims. Youve already done everything right. Tell him to get lost brother..he cant do anything about it!


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## 1976Cordoba (Sep 20, 2000)

[email protected] said:


> I'm kind of feeling that he is trying to scam me . . .
> I will probably offer a refund but only after I receive the item and he covers shipping back. I can at least feel better about the transaction as I tried to do the right thing . . .



OK plain & simple - You *DID* do the right thing by *INSURING IT*. 

If everyone on here is screaming "Scam!!" and you choose to ignore it for some misplaced sense of 'doing the right thing,' why even ask for advice in the first place?



Seriously - this guy can cry a river all he wants if it really is bad luck or whatever, but he should have checked the package when he received it. Or he is just another feeBay scammer loser. Either way, he can go get bent and take it up with FedEx.


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## Omega (Jan 14, 2000)

[email protected],

My son in law is a insurance investigator for the fraud division. He read you post and noticed a few big red flags. First the one pound loss between the 2nd and 3rd delivery. If it sit there for even 15 min. The good unit could have been taken out and replaced with the trashed unit. Second the packaging being thrown out. Third waiting past the 60 days so ebay and/ or PayPal can not be involved. If you have a serial number for the unit you sold and shipped, tell him you are going to contact the shippers and going to have them send out an investigator to examen the unit to determine the cause. If he switched the unit he will run for the hills and you will not hear from him. If that happens contact the police in his area and let then know the whole story. If he is trying to defraud you he will be in deep poop.

Dave


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## Bubba 123 (Sep 10, 2010)

tjetsgrig said:


> BINGO!!!! You've held up your end of the bargain, its time for him to do some legwork! My guess is he'll go away........
> 
> JS


played w/ selling collector toys on Epay... 6-ish years ago...
met this type B4....

i'ld put $$ on U being "Scammed" (especially since it was insured & WISE
Move on U'r part let me add :thumbsup

"HE" who has the shipping/insurance receipt... is the 1 that gets the Insurance $$$$ (@ least w/ USPS,) lost a $1,500 big box sent 2 France..

I got the Ins. $$$ & re-sent the items that were lost (Ins. of course).
"THOSE" made it ;-)

if anyone is getting burned, it's either the Shipping/Ins. Co.
OR, the dude, 
"..4 FAILING 2 REPORT IT, DURRING THE SHIPPING/INSURANCE STATUTE OF
TIME LIMITATIONS..." & Epay should back U... BUT keep u'r pay pal $$$
VERY-Low...Just incase ;-)

might send a COPY of u'r Original receipt of ship/ ins. 2 Epay, & let THEM fight it out as well....

been there, done that, KEPT My T-shirt 2 :thumbsup:

hope this helps U @ least a little :freak:

Bubba 123 :wave:


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## [email protected] (Jan 31, 2010)

Fed Ex denied the insurance claim today due to no packaging available. The buyer has started a claim Sunday with his credit card company. Paypal has since made my Paypal account go into the negative with funds due to the dispute. They put a hold on the account for the amount of the auction plus shipping. They gave me seven days to dispute the claim and give them all evidence and then Paypal will decide whether or not to fight the credit card company.If they decide not too, then I lose out on the return of my merchandise and the money. 
I have sent them all receipts emails and pictures I have and wrote a letter back stating what has transpired. 

Needless to say as a seller I feel extremely vulnerable to scams no thanks to Ebay and Paypal. They have not protected me so far and I'm not holding my breath on this. 

I will update as things happen.


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## slotcarman12078 (Oct 3, 2008)

Sorry Jeepman.. All your ducks were in a row... Hopefully Ebay will see that. I can only imaging the stress this is causing you. I get worked up over 15.00 items. Wishing this issue gets straightened out for you swiftly, and you're back on the right side of things. Is there an ID serial number on this item, and has the buyer proven it's the same unit?


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## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

just to update and get a clearer picture for myself .....

the buyer has gone beyond the time scope of eBay and PayPal protection plans ...... in other words neither will get involved?

the buyer has threatened to go to the Credit Card that funded the purchase?

the buyer discarded the packing and package so no evidence of shoddy packing can be examined?

the carrier hasn't been approached by the buyer?

the shipping store the seller used hasn't been approached by the buyer?

please correct any of the above for clarity!

.


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

I think it's worse than that Al...

1. Buyer waited until beyond the deadline for filing a claim with Paypal and/or eBay.

2. Despite this, Paypal puts a hold on Jeepman's money.

Guess who gets to use that money while it's in limbo? Yup, Paypal. Multiply this by the number of users they do this to and you will see they make a handsome profit on screwing people. Sure they may eventually release your money, but Paypal keeps whatever interest they earned on it in the meantime.

At it's core, Payal is a sleazy operation. And you have no recourse.


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## [email protected] (Jan 31, 2010)

alpink said:


> just to update and get a clearer picture for myself .....
> 
> the buyer has gone beyond the time scope of eBay and PayPal protection plans ...... in other words neither will get involved? Yes
> 
> ...


The credit card company disputed the issue with Paypal. Paypal automatically puts the money on hold. 

Let me know if there is any other questions.


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## slotcarman12078 (Oct 3, 2008)

Sorry if you answered this. I didn't see it if you did. Does the unit you sold have a serial number? Has it been verified to be the same unit? It sounds to me like this guy bought a dud, and is trying to replace the one you sent with it. What is the nature of the damage? In your opinion is it something that would most likely have damaged the package too, or is it more of a rough handling type like a wire busted loose?


I still say if it was freight damaged, he should have noticed it well before the deadline, regardless of the excuse. I buy a lot of cheap stuff off the bay, and I check everything as soon as it shows up. I still say finding out there's an issue 60+ days after a person receives an item is beyond stupid on his part, and/or reeks of a scam.


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## Dyonisis (Nov 11, 2009)

Let me tell you my experience of over ten years on evilbay. I'll keep this short, and sweet! 

Most buyers, and sellers are generally honest when dealing with the public. But there are those that think they are an exception. I've had several bad buyers, and sellers in the time that I've been a member. Sometimes there are those that want something they used to have, and they want to replace it. They'll look for there. If they win, they'll -pay for it, get, and leave reasonable feedback. Then there those that think they deserve something for nothing that will stop at nothing to get something without paying for it.










What usually happens in a scam similar to what you're describing, a buyer may have a damaged unit that they want to replace, but don't want to pay for it. They go to a website like this, or one similar to it, bid on something, and win it. When they get it, they take pictures of the damaged item - NOT THE ONE THEY WON IN THE AUCTION. Then they'll make a claim so that they can get their money back, but only after sending back the damaged item with the original serial number switched out, in the original box the item they recieved the item in. This makes it all look legit, but with total disregard for the seller! This sounds like what is truly happening in your case. 

Let Evilbay, and gaypal know the circumstances that have happened. Point all the facts out to them about the shipping crates/boxes being thrown out without taking pictures of them, the sudden weight loss, the wrong addresses, and everything including the time limit to report any damages. He might have wanted more than one of these, and destroyed one, and wants to be compensated even though he doesn't deserve it! There are a lot of reasons that people do things - just consider all this before you take any further action. 

~ Chris​


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## [email protected] (Jan 31, 2010)

slotcarman12078 said:


> Sorry if you answered this. I didn't see it if you did. Does the unit you sold have a serial number? Has it been verified to be the same unit? It sounds to me like this guy bought a dud, and is trying to replace the one you sent with it. What is the nature of the damage? In your opinion is it something that would most likely have damaged the package too, or is it more of a rough handling type like a wire busted loose?
> 
> 
> I still say if it was freight damaged, he should have noticed it well before the deadline, regardless of the excuse. I buy a lot of cheap stuff off the bay, and I check everything as soon as it shows up. I still say finding out there's an issue 60+ days after a person receives an item is beyond stupid on his part, and/or reeks of a scam.


The unit did have a serial number and there is a pic with the correct serial number. The damage looks as though it was dropped. Cracked plastic covers and dented metal covers. He notified me on the 45th day. I immediately made a claim with Fed Ex and told him I'd work with him on getting it resolved. He told me that day the packaging had been thrown away. 
My Fed ex claim was denied 2 1/2 weeks later and was told it was due to the pack and ship store needing to be the one to make a claim. Well that claim was denied yesterday. He gave me a threatening message Thursday last week telling me I give him full refund or he opens a credit card claim. I stated to him that my hands are tied till the Fed Ex claim and I will not refund him until I receive the complete item back but I cannot do that until the denial of the Fed Ex claim. Sunday is the day he made the credit card claim and Tuesday is when I was denied again from Fed Ex. So now I cannot work with him, my hands are tied again.


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## slotking (May 27, 2008)

1 pic of the serial num and 1 of the damage could 2 different items

do not refund till the unit is back in your hands


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## Bubba 123 (Sep 10, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> The unit did have a serial number and there is a pic with the correct serial number. The damage looks as though it was dropped. Cracked plastic covers and dented metal covers. He notified me on the 45th day. I immediately made a claim with Fed Ex and told him I'd work with him on getting it resolved. He told me that day the packaging had been thrown away.
> My Fed ex claim was denied 2 1/2 weeks later and was told it was due to the pack and ship store needing to be the one to make a claim. Well that claim was denied yesterday. He gave me a threatening message Thursday last week telling me I give him full refund or he opens a credit card claim. I stated to him that my hands are tied till the Fed Ex claim and I will not refund him until I receive the complete item back but I cannot do that until the denial of the Fed Ex claim. Sunday is the day he made the credit card claim and Tuesday is when I was denied again from Fed Ex. So now I cannot work with him, my hands are tied again.


hate 2 say this :-(
but....maybe U should look into a "Reputable" Lawyer......
sry.. only advise I can give...
claim; buyer, Fed-Ex, Ebay, & Paypal in lawsuit....
between; Fed-Ex, Ebay & Paypal, 
a lawyer "Should" be able 2 not only get U'r $$ back, BUT get HIS/HER fees & any Court $$$ (U will have 2 pay him/her upfront...sry again :-(

Cyber-Lawyer... a totally $$$NEW$$$ field.....
research WELL on the Lawyer(s) U choose 2 :thumbsup:

Bubba 123 .... hope this gives U more info & help :wave:


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## Jisp (Oct 19, 2008)

Jeepaman, I'm honestly shocked that a payment system that many of us now take for granted can work against you in such a ridiculously unfair way.

Unless someone with a bunch of experience chimes in I'm inclined to agree with Bubba I'm afraid. I think it's time for some pro legal advice if possible. In Australia we have a small legally binding court specifically formed to deal with this kind of thing. You pay a very reasonable fee and have your case heard. I'm quite sure free legal representation is available also. Is there a service like this where you live? Might be worth making some enquiries.

Mate, I really feel for you. It's a BS situation and I'm hopeful that the eventual outcome will be the right one. Hang in there and keep us posted please.

Cheers,
Michael. :thumbsup:


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## [email protected] (Jan 31, 2010)

Spoke with an attorney. His advice is to save any and all documents and we need to see what the final outcome is before anything can be done. Either way he stated at a minimum his fee is an $850 retainer due to the fact they are not in my home state. So if I do not win I'm out that money too. I look at it this way. Do I roll the dice again with a large chunk of money I do not have or scratch it up to a very bad experience as a seller?

Paypal finally gave me an answer that they are now going to contest the charge back against the credit card company due to the evidence I presented. I ttok them this long just to review my documentation. :freak:

Fingers are crossed and I'm saying prayers but I'm not holding my breath. If it does no turn out in my favor all I can do is feel blessed that things have been going great as far as my new daughter, my recent marriage this past weekend, and my oldest now going to be 12 in a couple weeks.


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## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

jeep, luck with the appeal and congrats on the good stuff.


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## Bubba 123 (Sep 10, 2010)

alpink said:


> jeep, luck with the appeal and congrats on the good stuff.


Ditto :thumbsup:

it seems paypal sees the possibility of U doing a lawsuit, so they're helping
it probably took this long, 4 "Their" Lawyers 2 check it out & also the possibility that there is a stack-pile of similar cases....

either way, let them use Their Lawyers ($$$) 1st....
recheck w/ u'r lawyer on who can be held responsible 4 $$ recovery 4 u
as well...

"IF" paypal can be the "Defendant" (held $$ responsible)...
he should be able 2 re-coup his fees in the lawsuit as well....

but unfortunately, u'll have 2 cough-up the $$ 1st....
his fee seems 2B inline w/ what I have experienced in a similar case...

sry, best I can offer :-/

Bubba 123 :wave:


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

Best advice I can give anyone concerning Paypal --- Do Not Leave Any Money in a Paypal Account!!!

As soon as you get money via Paypal...

1. Transfer it to your bank
2. Move it from the bank account tied to Paypal to another account, leaving only the minimum necessary in the bank account tied to Paypal.

Now if Paypal wants to hold your money, not only is there nothing in their possession, there's next to nothing in the bank account they know about.

Once they have your money, they have the upper hand. Let them chase you rather than the other way around.

Joe


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## [email protected] (Jan 31, 2010)

True, but then they take you to collections if you do not pay. You still end up having to go to litigation. My credit rating to me is as important as my money. 

Looking for other places to handle online transactions and auctions but the grass is not looking any greener over there.


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## StephenDresty (Sep 21, 2013)

I guess you have to appeal it...


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> True, but then they take you to collections if you do not pay. You still end up having to go to litigation. My credit rating to me is as important as my money.
> 
> Looking for other places to handle online transactions and auctions but the grass is not looking any greener over there.


That may be true, but think about it. If they take you to litigation, you can show a judge all your documentation and he/she would decide whether the case has validity. In your case, if I understand correctly, the time limit expired long before your money was taken and held.

Right now, Paypal has no incentive to resolve your case - they have your money and you are chasing them. Let them chase you and you'll probably find out how cooperative they can be and how quickly this issue is resolved. I doubt any judge would give Paypal the money up front before they proved their case.

Joe


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## [email protected] (Jan 31, 2010)

Good point.


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## [email protected] (Jan 31, 2010)

UPDATE!

I did get my money back! I was found in the right and Paypal did win the charge back case for me. It happened last week. Needless to say I won't be selling items that cost thousands of dollars on e-bay any longer. Thanks again for the opinions and advice guys. :thumbsup:


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## slotcarman12078 (Oct 3, 2008)

Sweet!! Glad this one had a happy ending, though I'm sure it caused some financial hardship for more than a few months!! Geez, it was the end of August!!! Hot and sweaty weather!


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## GoodwrenchIntim (Feb 22, 2005)

As most have said you did you part,Don't sweat it


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## Bubba 123 (Sep 10, 2010)

GoodwrenchIntim said:


> As most have said you did you part,Don't sweat it


HOO-RAA!!!!...TOUCH-DOWN !!! :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Bubba 123 :wave:


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## Dyonisis (Nov 11, 2009)

Like I said before, it won't be too long before they see your way, then decide that you did all you could from your end. The burden of proof was on THEM to prove that you meant any malfeasance on your part. 

~ Chris​


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