# Painting with automotive laquer



## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Okay, I'm gonna try this for the first time. I got a model of a Mini Cooper, and I want to paint it the same as our Mini Cooper. I stopped at the Mini dealer and got some Chili Red touch up paint ($16 for 0.4oz and an equal amount of clear coat!!!!!!!!  ). I'll be airbrushing it on the model.

So - 

1. I know I need to prime the model to keep the hot laquer from eating the plastic. Do I prime with regular model enamels? Or would an acrylic coat be better?

2. Can I thin the automotive laquer with plain ol' laquer thinner for airbrush use?

Tanks, kids.


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## Robert Hargrave (Dec 4, 2003)

Well John, when I did my Jupiter 2's Hull with the automotive type paints I used the automotive brand laquer thinner that was on the shelf along with the paints. I used a 50 / 50 blend of thinner and primer and it took me 5 coats of primer to get a solid coverage of the hull, with a light sanding between coats and I saw no crazing of the plastic. Then it took 4 coats of paint, and again I did light sanding between coats, to get a good solid reflective metalic color. On my B-47 project I did get some crazing in several spots, this I believe was caused by the primer being to thin in these areas. But after allowing the paint to dry and then hitting the areas with a fine grade of sand paper, after another coat of paint it went away. Brent would be the master to ask this question of grass-hopper...


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## superduty455 (Jun 21, 2000)

John, If you shop at a Wal-Mart, or even go to an automotive store pick up some Plasti-Kote T-235(gray) or T-237(white) sandable prier. That would give you the best coverage and protection from the lacquer.
As far as thinning goes, you may want to test with a little thinner first. Otherwise you'll have to hit the paint house for some automotive reducer/thinner.

When I bought my touch up bottle they told me I could airbrush it stragiht out. YEAH RIGHT! That was an expensive mistake.
Good Luck and let us know the results!
Chris


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## Brent Gair (Jun 26, 1999)

This is actually a pretty simple operation.

You'll need to get a spray can of primer for use under lacquer. SD455 has obviously used the product he recommends so that sounds good. Being in Canada, I use something a bit different but that's more a result of geography than anything else.

Plain old lacquer thinner for your airbrsuh should work...assuming that we are talking about actual lacquer thinner...the stuff you buy at the hardware store. I've used regular lacquer thinner for autopaints over the years and it's just fine.

In fact I prime EVERY model with lacquer based primer.


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## irishtrek (Sep 17, 2005)

DO NOT, I repeat DO NOT put it over an enamel paint, if you do then your model will end up with mini cracks all over ther surface.


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## Dave Metzner (Jan 1, 1970)

Use Laquer based thinners with laquer paints.
If you pick-up the rattle can primer you might want to spray it into a bottle and apply it with your airbrush.
You should have much better control with the airbrush than the can. I've pretty much quit using rattle cans for anything modesl related.

One piece of advise - don't lay paint or primer on too wet directly on bare plastic. Start with light coats and build paint up gradually - less likelyhood of paint attacking plastic.

Dave


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Excellent, thanks guyz. I'll hit the auto parts store next week foir the primer!

Yes, brent, I buy laquer thinner at the hardware store by the gallon, and pour into a smaller bottle for airbrush-cleaning duty. I tend to use Model Master's airbrushing thinner for their paints, and the store brand for other stuff. The store brand actually causes problems airbrushing MM paints.

Hot young receptionist chicks at car dealerships look at you funny when you ask for enough Chili Red to paint a model car, btw.


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## Steve244 (Jul 22, 2001)

John P said:


> Excellent, thanks guyz. I'll hit the auto parts store next week foir the primer!
> 
> Yes, brent, I buy laquer thinner at the hardware store by the gallon, and pour into a smaller bottle for airbrush-cleaning duty. I tend to use Model Master's airbrushing thinner for their paints, and the store brand for other stuff. The store brand actually causes problems airbrushing MM paints.
> 
> Hot young receptionist chicks at car dealerships look at you funny when you ask for enough Chili Red to paint a model car, btw.


Maybe you forgot to say "car".

Gunze Sangyo primer  is lacquer based.


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## sbaxter (Jan 8, 2002)

If the color you're using is a reasonably bright red (as the name makes me think), you might want to go with the white primer. Gray primer might require more coats of red before it looks as bright as it should, and you'd probably hate to run out of that expensive paint for that reason.

Qapla'

SSB


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Good point!


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## MadCap Romanian (Oct 29, 2005)

When I spray laquer, I put it on without a primer blocker coat. Directly out of the Canadian Tire touch up spray can onto styrene. They have almost every colour and the paint is already thinned down enough for spraying through the aresol can.

What I usually do is spray on the laquer, let it dry, then sand any imperfections out with my LGM polishing kit before I spray on the second coat. The first coat of laquer seems to protect the plastic from the second and third coats and the sanding job on that first coat helps to take out any imperfections caused by the laquer paint itself. (I've had small sandpaper scratches turn into huge gouges when the first coat of laquer is laid down.)

Laquer is a tougher paint, so I find that clear coats aren't nessicary after using the LGM polishing kit (1800 grade sandpaper - 12000 grade) followed by turtle wax. That's how my 1957 Chevy Del Ray was painted. It won 2 Gold awards at 2 different shows.

I then clear coat the kit, if nessicary, with Tremclad clear enamel paint. Total cost for both paints....$10.00 Cdn. (Dupont should have something simular.

I've been painting these models in this way for so long that I can't really tell you the technique for not melting the thing since Laquer paint is essentually the same formula that they use in the liquid glue(Toluine). I guess my practicing on numerous scrap kits paid off over the years.

When I first started though, I read about a primer that they use on Galvanized steel and it works as a terrific blocker for Laquer. It's a 2 part primer. I used it in the earily days and then found out that if you're carefull enough, you can paint Laquer DIRECTLY onto styrene plastic without melting the kit to a blob.

All it takes is practice.


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## MadCap Romanian (Oct 29, 2005)

There is another advantage to Laquer paint over Enamel. 

Metallics!

You can sand out a Laquer Metallic paint without it turning into a colour tinted silver paint job like what happens with Enamels.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Primer _blocker _coat? :freak:


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

John P said:


> Primer _blocker _coat? :freak:


Of course! You know how important it is to block the primer, don't you? :jest: 

No offense intended, by the lame joke above. And please pardon my intrusion here, but I believe M.C.R. is referring to the use of a primer coat, to prevent lacquer paints from crazing plastic.


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## terryr (Feb 11, 2001)

A sealer coat. When painting real cars they apply sealer to prevent all the old coatings from reacting with the new stuff.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Okayyyyy. Never heard of sealing the primer, I always figgered the primer was the primer and that was that.


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## MadCap Romanian (Oct 29, 2005)

I typed that in without enough sleep.


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## Brent Gair (Jun 26, 1999)

As usual, a simple task has been made to seem increasing complicated.

Step 1) Spray with primer. Right out of the can is just fine

Step 2) Spray with paint.

The only area where really you need extra caution is in the application of primer. Not all primers are the same. Because I'm in Canada, I'm aware of brand here which is quite safe for styrene...but that doesn't help you. So just be easy on the primer, don't flood the model and keep an eye open for any crazing. Once the primer is on, the model is largely protected from any damage from lacquer paint (again, though, don't flood it).

Nevertheless, it's still comes down to: prime it, paint it and don't use heavy coats...which are pretty much the guidelines for all paint jobs.


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## Dave Hussey (Nov 20, 1998)

And besides, its summer. You'll get all sweaty in a heavy coat. So. they're a bad idea all around.

Huzz


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## Dave Hussey (Nov 20, 1998)

By the way, recall that I painted my Polar Lights 1/1000 Enterprise / Defiant with Duplicolor automotive scratch filling primer and grey lacquer with no problems at all.











The process was literally as simple as Brent says. 

Huzz


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

It's coming right at us!!!


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

Dave Hussey said:


> By the way, recall that I painted my Polar Lights 1/1000 Enterprise / Defiant with Duplicolor automotive scratch filling primer and grey lacquer with no problems at all...


Beautiful model! 

And, I see they're warping out, and simultaneously firing photon torpedoes at the popcorn... Man, what a buttery mess, all over the dining room!!!


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## Dave Hussey (Nov 20, 1998)

Duck!!

They've got no deflector!

Huzz


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## MadCap Romanian (Oct 29, 2005)

Hey! All I'm saying is that I've sprayed Laquer without primer and it works out fine. You just have to be careful is all. Test it on a scrapper kit and you'll see what I mean.


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## MadCap Romanian (Oct 29, 2005)

Here's my results with spraying Laquer without a primer coat and sanding in between coats with the LGM polising kit. Believe me when I say that it can be done!





































And none of these have a clear coat either.


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## accobra64 (Aug 10, 2003)

Brent Gair said:


> Because I'm in Canada, I'm aware of brand here which is quite safe for styrene...but that doesn't help you.


The brand name may not help our American friends, but it certainly could
help some of your fellow Canadians. Can you supply the product name and
possible sources? I've just starting getting back into building AMT model cars
after an absense on many years. I did a lot of models when I was a youth.

Cheers. Cobra


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Still looking for Plastikote. The local car parts shop had a different brand. The local paint store had Plastikote, but not the automotive line. I can get it online, of course, but it seems silly buying one $6 item plus shipping and handling.

I'll check out the local Target store today.


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## Dave Hussey (Nov 20, 1998)

Hi Accobra64!

I'm pretty certain that Brent and I are using the same automotive paint. I used paint and primer by Duplicolor on my Polar Lights 1/1000 Enterprise / Defiant above. 

Be careful to use the Dupli-Color scratch filler and primer, CDS031. That primer has a particular make up that will effectively protect the plastic of a model from the chemicals in the final paint layer. To that end, its important to prime every surface that will be painted. Automotive paint applied to bare plastic may damage the plastic.

The paint I used on my Defiant was Dupli-Color Slate Grey, CDSGM325. The "GM" in the product code indicates that this is apparently intended to match a GM or Chevrolet color.

In Canada its availaibe at any Canadian Tire store. I would think you would also find it at any US auto parts and supplies retailer.

Huzz


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## PhilipMarlowe (Jan 23, 2004)

John P said:


> Still looking for Plastikote. The local car parts shop had a different brand. The local paint store had Plastikote, but not the automotive line. I can get it online, of course, but it seems silly buying one $6 item plus shipping and handling.
> 
> I'll check out the local Target store today.


One tip/warning about Plastikote, especially the white sandable primer, it doesn't perform well in high humidity and takes a long time to dry completely.


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

Dave Hussey said:


> Hi Accobra64!
> 
> I'm pretty certain that Brent and I are using the same automotive paint. I used paint and primer by Duplicolor...In Canada its availaibe at any Canadian Tire store. I would think you would also find it at any US auto parts and supplies retailer.
> 
> Huzz


In L.A., the full Dupli-Color line is available at, at least some, Pep Boys stores. Less of the line is available at Walmart.

I would like to point out, that most Dupli-Color auto paints are cataloged as ENAMEL. They come in the blue spray cans. Many fewer colors are available as lacquer, and they come in black cans. I am wondering how many references in this thread are actually for enamel.


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## Brent Gair (Jun 26, 1999)

In Canada, I'm using the MotoMaster Scratch Filler&Primer (which is almost certainly the same as the Duplicolor product). MotoMaster being, of course, a Canadian Tire brand so it's easy to get.

Here in town, the Duplicolor and MotoMaster paints are sold side-by-side at Canadian Tire. Both are made in the USA. The MotoMaster is often available in larger cans and it's cheaper (though the selection isn't as good).

Just make sure you use the SCRATCH FILLER & PRIMER. The standard primer is too hot and will craze the plastic.


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## terryr (Feb 11, 2001)

John P said:


> Still looking for Plastikote. The local car parts shop had a different brand. The local paint store had Plastikote, but not the automotive line.


I heard that Duplicolor bought out Plastikote, to shut down the competition.


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## accobra64 (Aug 10, 2003)

Brent Gair said:


> In Canada, I'm using the MotoMaster Scratch Filler&Primer (which is almost certainly the same as the Duplicolor product). MotoMaster being, of course, a Canadian Tire brand so it's easy to get.
> 
> Here in town, the Duplicolor and MotoMaster paints are sold side-by-side at Canadian Tire. Both are made in the USA. The MotoMaster is often available in larger cans and it's cheaper (though the selection isn't as good).
> 
> Just make sure you use the SCRATCH FILLER & PRIMER. The standard primer is too hot and will craze the plastic.


Thanks Brent Gair and others for the kind information.
Brent, I will try Canadian Tire for the SCRATCH FILLER & PRIMER.
I think this is actually what I may be looking for.
When I was a youth I built a lot of model cars and always seemed to use a
grey primer before applying any finishing coats. I used to do a lot of
customizing on cars such as shaving trunks and hoods and removing other
car body details. I remember using 400 and 800 emery cloth for wet sanding.
I never use 1200 grit sandpaper. Anyway, I have started working on some
AMT 1/25 scale cars in my spare time. One of them is the 1949 Mercury.
I am impressed with this kit. And it has been fun working on so far.
Thanks again everyone for all the information.

Can you still buy filler putty for styrene plastic?
Walmart doesn't other much in the way of paints for models.

Cheers. Cobra


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## Brent Gair (Jun 26, 1999)

accobra64 said:


> Can you still buy filler putty for styrene plastic?
> Walmart doesn't other much in the way of paints for models.
> 
> Cheers. Cobra


Oh yeah...the Spot and Glazing Putty by Motomaster is made by Bondo (says so right on the package) and they sell Bondo putty as well. Plain, red, lacquer based stuff is still the favorite for most minor finishing work.

Finding model paints is real pain. The only thing that I really use model paint for is aircraft models which require specific color matches...and that's why my aircraft modeling has tapered off to almost nothing. For sci-fi and figure work, I use auto paint or craft paint. The last nearby hobby shop closed a year ago.


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