# J2 Test Shot



## Moebius

Not much to look at, there still needs to be a few changes. I don't have one to lay out to show it all, so this is as close as I can currently get. Maybe in another week I can show better....


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## DLHamblin

Moebius said:


> Not much to look at, there still needs to be a few changes. I don't have one to lay out to show it all, so this is as close as I can currently get. Maybe in another week I can show better....


I disagree; thats plenty to look at!!!!! Keep the tidbits coming please....


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## Steve H

I believe that one of the common Interwebtubes phrases to be used in cases like this is DO WANT!

Very nice and thank you for the peek!

But, not to be a bug, that's kinda inefficient packing in that box, way too much air, and the parts don't even lay flat! And it's HUGE! retailers aren't going to be happy at ALL. Altho I give props for the innovative 'see what's inside' front. Very retro, reminds me of the old Remco Seaview toy packaging. :devil:

OK, seriously, that's a winner. You're gonna sell a crapload of that thing.

And now I have to ask the question bound to come up! TWO top domes? What's up with that?

ETA: Durrrrr, astrogator and dome. crap. my brain must have just overloaded with the awesome of it all.


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## moebiusman

I think this is a beauty!!! With some good paint and a VoodooFX lighting kit
this will be the best kit to come from Moebius yet. I really wish Moebius 
would consider adding the proper decals for it . Its a real drag to start a build 
and gamble on a aftermarket decal maker, and wait& wait for it to get here.
Maybe a deluxe kit with decals and lights ? .....Its not like we wouldnt buy it anyways!!! Keep up the great work Moebius:thumbsup:


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## Captain Han Solo

*EXCELLENT:thumbsup:*


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## Nova Mike

Oh Boy!! looking fantastic can hardly wait:thumbsup::thumbsup: Thanks:wave:


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## Steve H

call it a hunch, I strongly suspect there will be aftermarket decals up and running and available at the time the kit streets. maybe even some photoetch detail stuff. It's just this odd feeling I have. 

(no, not from ME, good lord!  )


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## gojira61

Steve H said:


> call it a hunch, I strongly suspect there will be aftermarket decals up and running and available at the time the kit streets. maybe even some photoetch detail stuff. It's just this odd feeling I have.
> 
> (no, not from ME, good lord!  )


I have no idea what you could be talking about (goes back to looking at his photoetch that just came today for his 1:32 Flying Sub from ParaGrafix)

*Great looking kit Frank!* I'd better get busy on my builds, I'm falling way behind.

Jim
QMx


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## drewid142

MAGNIFICENT!

I might actually have to BUILD this one!


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## Kit

This is very exciting. I'm not like a lot of the fellows here, who have very specific ideas of what the kit should have, and really deep knowledge of accuracy issues (really a bit scary, kinda shows the information's out there if you want to set yourself up as the go-to expert on really obscure stuff.)

Nope, to me I'm just excited about building the model as is, and grateful for the work Gary Kerr and the Moebius guys have put in.


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## hedorah59

Looks pretty darned impressive! :woohoo:


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## xsavoie

That's one big beautiful baby.Wished there was either a can of pop or a hand in the picture to have an idea about it's size,so to speak.:thumbsup:


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## Y3a

GREAT!!! Now I have to change pants!


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## Hunch

That really is looking the biz!:thumbsup: Nice work guys!


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## spindrift

I thought decals were being designed for it and will be included!?
Frank any choice of molded colors? Silver, beige and clear would be great!
Show more!
More importantly- how does it all fit- hopefully great so we can have it SOONER thasn later!
Gary:thumbsup:


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## Gemini1999

Now, that looks like a lot of fun to build....

I just love all those parts! I'm really looking forward to this one.

Bryan


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## RogueJ

Here now is the Jupiter 2...bold in concept, brilliant in execution.


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## Paulbo

Wow! I wouldn't have thought it possible, but that one shot is even more exciting than all the prototype shots we got to see at Wonderfest! I am _so_ looking forward to this kit!



gojira61 said:


> I have no idea what you could be talking about (goes back to looking at his photoetch that just came today for his 1:32 Flying Sub from ParaGrafix)


I'm assuming you meant "photoetch _from ParaGrafix_ that just came today for his 1:32 Flying Sub" and aren't thinking of some weird, alternate universe where I released a full Flying Sub kit


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## gojira61

Paulbo said:


> I'm assuming you meant "photoetch _from ParaGrafix_ that just came today for his 1:32 Flying Sub" and aren't thinking of some weird, alternate universe where I released a full Flying Sub kit


I need to not type at all on Mondays!


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## falcondesigns

Another home run,Frank!


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## gareee

Looking GREAT!

One request (possibly easy) could the sprue set on the lower right be done in clear? Looks like quite a few parts there that can have lighting done to them, and the rest of the parts all need painting anyway.

So who get to test fit everything together and see what's what?

Also a question about the process... how long does it take once the have everything correct to go from manufacture to the shelves?


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## Punchcard76

Great Googly Moogly !!!!


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## falcondesigns

gareee said:


> Looking GREAT!
> 
> One request (possibly easy) could the sprue set on the lower right be done in clear?


Your kidding,right?


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## Gary K

I'm still slogging through the test shot to make sure all the parts (and there are a LOT) are correct. Don't worry, though, I've got an expert helping me: Debbie the Bloop! That is you, Debbie, isn't it??

Gary


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## Paulbo

Go, Speed Racer ... Go!

That looks super, Gary.


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## WarpCore Breach

Nah... just some grease monkey. LOL! :tongue:

That is going to be one seriously sweet model once all the corrections are made! :thumbsup:

Any chance of having some sort of visual reference that will show us just how BIG this thing is going to be?!? :freak:

Good luck working out all the problem spots that are undoubtedly in there! :wave:


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## Seaview

"All good things to those who wait." - Dr. Hannibal Lecter


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## Gary K

WarpCore Breach said:


> Nah... just some grease monkey. LOL! :tongue:
> 
> That is going to be one seriously sweet model once all the corrections are made! :thumbsup:
> 
> Any chance of having some sort of visual reference that will show us just how BIG this thing is going to be?!? :freak:
> 
> Good luck working out all the problem spots that are undoubtedly in there! :wave:


How about this? (and, no, that's not the mini-Flying Sub model)

Gary


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## scotpens

Y3a said:


> GREAT!!! Now I have to change pants!


Did I need to know that? :lol:

This is going to one beautiful, BIG model. Finally the _Jupiter 2_ gets the kit it deserves. It only took 44 years!


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## toyroy

Thank you, for the sneak peeks. 

QUESTION: _*Will the kit include landing pad doors?*_

For those who intend to build an in-flight model, the doors are _essential_ to complete the lower hull. Without them, there will be three gaping holes at the outer end of the gear legs. These should be on the same sprues as other hull parts, in the event you want to issue hulls in glow-in-the-dark, clear, or plated plastic.


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## woof359

i see the fins come al the way out to the legs. any interferance?


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## otto

Looks fantastic! I'm looking forward to this kit!


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## John P

I was looking at the billion kits I have stockpiled and thinking, "I wanna build them ALL! NOW!!!" and realized I couldn't so I went upstairs and moped.


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## otto

John, if your mom catches you riding that MoPed in the house again, your gonna get grounded! ...AGAIN!


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## JohnGuard

Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## JAT

woof359 said:


> i see the fins come al the way out to the legs. any interferance?


I had always sort of rationalized that the fins were extended for the drive through space (some sort of magnetic field distortion dampeners/ modifiers/ enhancers technobabble a la Irwin Allen) and would be retracted when landing and thus would make room for the landing gear.


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## Gary K

toyroy said:


> Thank you, for the sneak peeks.
> 
> QUESTION: _*Will the kit include landing pad doors?*_


Yes, it will.

Gary


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## Mark Dorais

She looks BEAUTIFUL.....Can't wait to see more photos!!!! Thanks for posting Gary.


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## toyroy

toyroy said:


> ..._*Will the kit include landing pad doors?*_...





Gary K said:


> Yes, it will.


Thank you! :thumbsup:


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## woof359

*times running out*



John P said:


> I was looking at the billion kits I have stockpiled and thinking, "I wanna build them ALL! NOW!!!" and realized I couldn't so I went upstairs and moped.


I know how John feels. theres aways the grand kid tho.......maybe hell take over.he;ll have his choice of many an Irwin kit


and I mean many.[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]


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## j2man

I will happily volunteer to build that as is without any changes. LOL


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## fastlap

WOW!!!! Can't wait for this baby to arrive. Just awesome.


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## fastlap

toyroy said:


> Thank you, for the sneak peeks.
> 
> QUESTION: _*Will the kit include landing pad doors?*_


Looks like the doors are on the trees just below the front viewport.:thumbsup:


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## Moebius

woof359 said:


> i see the fins come al the way out to the legs. any interferance?


We included two, one with fins extended, one with fins retracted so either in-flight or not could be built.


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## Gary K

woof359 said:


> i see the fins come al the way out to the legs. any interferance?


On the 4 ft hero model, the extended fins were permanently fastened to the fusion core, yet the landing gear still managed to clear it. It's the same on the Moebius kit. Btw, I'm guessing that the fins were theoretically *supposed* to retract during landing, to match the fusion core on the 3-legged full-size mock-up, but a retraction mechanism probably proved too difficult to be practical in real life (esp. with the lighting mechanism inside the core).

Gary


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## SFCOM1

I will just have to say WOW! :woohoo:

Any idea what would need to be corrected before the kit is finalized?

This kit is going to be FUN!


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## StarshipClass

Looks FANTASTIC!!!!

Getting excited now!!

How close is the bottom half of the hull a match for the full-sized mock-up? Was the spacepod door on that version?


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## gareee

Hmm I have the old resaurus chim chim as well.. the johnny lightening robot is about 1/4 taller, so looking at that interior pic, it looks like the robt might be a tad small, but still fit inside.

Only thing that does not look right, is the doors in the back look very small compared to the astrogator.

Look odd to anyone else, or is it one of those odd camera things?


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## gareee

falcondesigns said:


> Your kidding,right?


No, I'm not. No one will use the molded plastic color anyway, and it looks like there are at least two significant wall panels that had lights in them in the show.

I'd much rather light them from behind, then have to use a tiny dremel to drill out holes for lights or fiber optics.


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## Seaview

It's one of those odd camera things. 
Besides, "it's only a model".


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## m jamieson

Y3a said:


> GREAT!!! Now I have to change pants!


Always wear your "brown" pants when test shots shown!


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## Richard Baker

Looks Great!

.


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## falcondesigns

gareee said:


> No, I'm not..


......and there in lies the problem.alex


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## Y3a

I never have to drill out those little lights.... I don't DO the set interior in a Perfect Jupiter 2 hull. Scrim is easier and gives you much more space for working fusion core and gear. Blinkin' lights isn't exactly what you saw when you looked at the SPFX shots.


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## Steve H

falcondesigns said:


> ......and there in lies the problem.alex


Wait...what? what's this all about? do you two have a long standing feud going on or something?

So Gareee would like clear walls so he can carefully mask and paint them then light it that way. So what? Some will paint, some will use decals. Some will take the plastic parts and carefully drill out every single little light and thread miles of fiber optics in, some will sand the panels flat and replace them with photoetch parts, and some will not even USE the interior parts as they strive to perfectly re-create the filming model. 

It's all good, brother. It's all good.

I'm hoping that some creative types in the aftermarket biz (or, golly, maybe even Moebius themselves!) are carefully going frame-by-frame over Lost in Space DVDs to provide option parts to re-create the walls as seen in different episodes or seasons (as has been noted things changed all the time), and those overhead struts.

And SOMEONE is going to want replacement clear arches for lighting per the early episodes.


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## falcondesigns

I read a post,I respond......no feud.


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## John P

Y3a said:


> I never have to drill out those little lights.... I don't DO the set interior in a Perfect Jupiter 2 hull. Scrim is easier *lazier *and gives you much more space for working fusion core and gear.


Fixed that for ya.


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## JAT

Steve H said:


> Wait...what? what's this all about? do you two have a long standing feud going on or something?
> 
> So Gareee would like clear walls so he can carefully mask and paint them then light it that way. So what? Some will paint, some will use decals. Some will take the plastic parts and carefully drill out every single little light and thread miles of fiber optics in, some will sand the panels flat and replace them with photoetch parts, and some will not even USE the interior parts as they strive to perfectly re-create the filming model.
> 
> It's all good, brother. It's all good.
> 
> I'm hoping that some creative types in the aftermarket biz (or, golly, maybe even Moebius themselves!) are carefully going frame-by-frame over Lost in Space DVDs to provide option parts to re-create the walls as seen in different episodes or seasons (as has been noted things changed all the time), and those overhead struts.
> 
> And SOMEONE is going to want replacement clear arches for lighting per the early episodes.


Agreed. many of us were brought up learning small niceties like "if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all". Kinda think the world as a whole would be a little better place if we still practiced those basic principles.


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## Y3a

John P said:


> Fixed that for ya.


But JOHN!!! The working landing gear and mechanical fusion core won't fit in a Jupiter 2 with the set interior! LAZIER?????? :freak:


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## falcondesigns

gareee said:


> One request (possibly easy) could the sprue set on the lower right be done in clear?


This is what I was asking about.Production of a plastic model kit is,as we have been learning from Moebius and Dave's keen insight, a complicated process,not a Baskin Robbins type of deal where you can just ask for the flavor of your choice.
As for the "if you have nothing nice......." well..............
'


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## Fernando Mureb

To assemble the Moebius J2 and then, die.


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## SJF

I never bought the Seaview and Flying Sub because I wasn't a big fan of that series. But, being a fan of LIS since I was a kid, I'll certainly get one of these babies. The J2 never looked better. Excellent job, Moebius. 

Sean


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## Steve H

falcondesigns said:


> This is what I was asking about.Production of a plastic model kit is,as we have been learning from Moebius and Dave's keen insight, a complicated process,not a Baskin Robbins type of deal where you can just ask for the flavor of your choice.
> As for the "if you have nothing nice......." well..............
> '


Except we don't know how modular the tooling is. It's possible the sprue those parts are on could be switched out and placed in the 'clear plastic' set. 

From what I have seen, we're way past the days of taking giant hunks of tool steel and carving the cavities right into the block (and any mistake costs you a $100,000 chunk of steel if you can't recover). Most everything is done on a modular basis, smaller tooling linked together and placed into a larger...oh, I don't know the name I think of it as a frame. What I've seen tends to look like a large steel jigsaw puzzle.

So it MIGHT be possible. Wouldn't hurt to ask and see if it IS possible, right?


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## gareee

falcondesigns said:


> This is what I was asking about.Production of a plastic model kit is,as we have been learning from Moebius and Dave's keen insight, a complicated process,not a Baskin Robbins type of deal where you can just ask for the flavor of your choice.
> As for the "if you have nothing nice......." well..............
> '


I don't think it was negative criticism at all. And for all we know, the test shot sprue could have been done in the wrong plastic color.

Typically sprues are either isolated molds, or a numbe rof sprues are on a mold (at least going by the toy industry developement reports)

If the sprues are on individual molds, then changing the plastic colr is just a simple change request.

If the molds are cut however, and there are multiple sprues on the same mold, then changing them depends on the actual factory.

I recall McFarlane having multiple colors done in a mold in different sections, but again, if I recall, that was because of the abilites of the factory. (And also it could be specific to the plastic type.

The biggest shortcoming in previous models personally for me, has been items cast in solid plastic that could have been easily lit from behind, but needed to be replaced wither by aftermarket brass etchings, or by recasts in clear resin by aftermarket people.

Making the model the best for both novice and advanced modelers is a win win for Moebius and for model buyers.


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## Fozzie

I have NO place to put that...but, man, do I want one!


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## gareee

Steve H said:


> Wait...what? what's this all about? do you two have a long standing feud going on or something?
> 
> So Gareee would like clear walls so he can carefully mask and paint them then light it that way. So what? Some will paint, some will use decals. Some will take the plastic parts and carefully drill out every single little light and thread miles of fiber optics in, some will sand the panels flat and replace them with photoetch parts, and some will not even USE the interior parts as they strive to perfectly re-create the filming model.
> 
> It's all good, brother. It's all good.
> 
> I'm hoping that some creative types in the aftermarket biz (or, golly, maybe even Moebius themselves!) are carefully going frame-by-frame over Lost in Space DVDs to provide option parts to re-create the walls as seen in different episodes or seasons (as has been noted things changed all the time), and those overhead struts.
> 
> And SOMEONE is going to want replacement clear arches for lighting per the early episodes.


I've got no idea why having them done in clear as opposed to solid plastic would be an issue with him at all. They have to be painted, regardless or cast color (or lack thereof), and having them done in clear just makes them easier to light with cheap readily accessibale alternatives, instead of purchasing expensive aftermarket parts.

I wan't disparaging or complaining at all about the test shot.. after all, it IS a test shot, and in many cases, a number of things must be changed before a final approved version is achieved.

But if a simple no cost alternative that benefits many modelers is possible why not mention it?

Potentially, there is no cost to moebius at all, and they might just need to add it to the change list.

I've seen other people disparange having items cast in clear before.

What would be the actual issue someone might have in NOT wanting something cast clear, especially if everything needs to be painted anyway?

Just curious. (Unless falcon is one of those people selling aftermarket kits, and wouldn't want his potential market size reduced by some simple practical clear cast decisions.)


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## falcondesigns

Not at all,I dont have anything for the J2,I'm just saying that this late in the game,the bids for the production of the kit have all ready been signed off on,the test shots are just to tweak the molds for errors,adding clear plastic to the equation would add to the price point of the model.


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## gareee

Actually it might not. If the sprue I asked about it on a seperate model, then clear plastic costs no more then colored plastic, and is just the vendor's choice. If memory serves, something like glow in the dark, or tinted clear has a higher cost, but the cost difference is very low.

Again, I'm going by toy manufacturer's casting information, so the same might not hold true for styrene model kits, but asking if it is possible is not the same as being critical of the test shot at all. For all we know, it was already supposed to be cast clear, and the factory missed that.


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## Richard Baker

Why not cast everything in clear? All opaque areas are going to get painted anyway and a clear outer hull as some interesting possabilities. Perhaps a special edition offered like that- like the PL-J2 with solid chrome...

.


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## gareee

If given a choice, I'd actually buy that over a mixed color molded choice. That way I'd know I'd have any easily lightable parts cast clear.

The only detriment to clear cast parts, I think is that people don't really see some of the molded details until they paint them with primer.

Typically, instead of trying to paint around small details, I'll just use a primer with the base color i really want, say, black, and then just scrape the primer away from detailes I want lit with the tip of a sharp exacto.

If you have a light behind it when you do that, especially a colored super bright LED, you can easily see how your lighting is coming along on that part.

As kit prices soar upwards, value added things like more clear parts for lighting makes expensive kits more attractive, since you need fewer aftermarket kits to for items that benefit from lighting.

I recall simply driling out hundereds of "lights" with a dremel with a 1/32nd inch bit on a star destroyer kit, and lighting it with just a cheap 10 light christmas tree string light set. It cast light so brightly, it cast "stars" on the ceiling around it, and freinds marvelling at how amazing it looked, and the lighting wa about as low tech as you can get.

I even replaced 3 of the lights for the engines in the back, and the light tips poked through those 3 big back engines, and looked killer.

But back to the topic, todays modelers don't always need $30 add on kits for models to be lit properly.. with led light strings, some with flash effects, you can do killer stuff uber cheap.

But much of it starts with the base model, and what oppertunities it presents.

The new J2 looks just amazing, and I'm hoping that I'll be able to easily light enough of the interior so from a distance, suspended from the ceiling, it looks more like a real movie prop then some of the actual used models did!

Certainly the Flying Sub looks far superior to the original models used for production.


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## Y3a

OK, SO WE'VE SEEN THE PARTS... Has it been assembled yet? Can we see?


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## gareee

BTW, from the looks, the johnny lightening Robot though a tad tall, could probably be put in reasonably in scale. I think he could be a tad smaller, but I think he'll look alright inside.


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## falcondesigns

IIRC the J2 is 1/32 scale.


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## woof359

is it December yet? i finally found a place the Hull well well fit on for display.


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## woof359

I was looking at the test shot photo,and I know this is a kit just for inspection, the circle engraved around the opening for the upper hull bubble has me wondering.


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## Gary K

falcondesigns said:


> IIRC the J2 is 1/32 scale.


Nope - it's 1/35 scale.

Gary


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## Gary K

woof359 said:


> I was looking at the test shot photo,and I know this is a kit just for inspection, the circle engraved around the opening for the upper hull bubble has me wondering.


The engraved circle is for the upper bubble, and the opening is for the spinning scanner thingie.

Gary


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## gareee

Well, it's Irwin Allen anyway, so "scale" can change from shot to shot, or episode to episode....LOL!

I wanna see more test fit pics! maybe something with a ruler showing how tall the ceiling is in the interior? Or maybe something familiar in it, like the chariot robot, or one of the JL vehicles, so we have a better perception of size, and what might or might not fit inside it.

I was mildly excited when I first heard of this, but after seeing the comparison pics with the Polar J2, and now test shots, I'm really jazzed for this now!

Moebius: Does it still look like we'll actually be able to see it in our hands for Christmas?


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## falcondesigns

Thanks Gary.


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## StarshipClass

My solution is simple: I'm going to declare the J2 1/32nd scale and use the JL robot. 

As long as the figures work, the robot will work.


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## AJ-1701

Fozzie said:


> I have NO place to put that...but, man, do I want one!


Never a truer comment made and one I can relate to...  But I want one too... wait a sec... I forgot :drunk: I am getting one :thumbsup: room or no room


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## otto

I'll Glue it to the ceiling if I must! Hmmmm could probably put quite a few kits up there..Methinks I just doubled my model kit room space..


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## robiwon

One thing I would like to see stay the same is the clear insert for the fusion core. All the clear parts have a frosted look to them (molds not fully polished out yet?). It would be nice to keep the frosted look for the FC insert piece. But of course that is what we have clear flat for!


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## woof359

is the opening big enough for the astrogator to go tho? if not no biggie, thanks gary.


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## Antimatter

Groovy man, goooooooooooooovy. Alright guys, get to work on the electronics.


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## Gary K

woof359 said:


> is the opening big enough for the astrogator to go tho? if not no biggie, thanks gary.


The answer is no, since the Moebius model reflects the hero J2 model with the spinning scanner, not the Gemini 12 with its astrogator-in-the-bubble design. The hole is merely for the scanner, but if you want, a Dremel will work wonders on the ship's roof.

Robiwon: the clear parts aren't polished yet, and they haven't added textures, like screen for the magnepanels and the bubble pattern on the underside of the lighted disk in the elevator's floor. 600 grit sandpaper will give you a frosted look on the clear part, too, and won't yellow afterwards.

Gary


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## GEH737

Fast forward to the end of the year... CultTVMan has delivered my two pre-ordered Jupiter II's that I've been waiting for - like for over forty years... I know stuff is going to be released for it - decals, lighting, photoetch, figures. How do I start knowing extra stuff is coming??? How do I not start the moment I open the box??? Decisions, decisions...

I'm guessin' one will be an immediate "Out of the box", and I'll wait till all the after-market stuff has been released for a "Full Deutronium Package" build a little bit later...

Man, I love these kind of problems


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## Seaview

GEH737 said:


> ...
> 
> I'm guessin' one will be an immediate "Out of the box", and I'll wait till all the after-market stuff has been released for a "Full Deutronium Package" build a little bit later...
> 
> Man, I love these kind of problems


 
That's what I've been doing with my Flying Sub. :thumbsup:


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## reticulan5

Gary I'm greatfull that you and Moebius are releasing a Jupiter 2 kit.Gary we all know 
that there is no way the lower deck can be fitted to J2 unless we magnify the size at least 50%.But since your already making the upper deck interior.What about the lower deck aswell for another sale a stand alone diorama with the upper &lower deck.In other words no exterior hull.But the interior sets so you don't worry about the fit.It would be great to spin it around and view each panel.


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## Moebius

gareee said:


> Moebius: Does it still look like we'll actually be able to see it in our hands for Christmas?


As long as things continue to schedule, it should be under a few trees in late December!


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## woof359

I was wondering, is there any thing you wanted to offer with this kit and the company making it said 'we cant do that'?


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## Gary K

Here's another photo of the test shot. The wall sections are simply plugged into the floor. No glue, no wall beams. Not too shabby for being less than 2.5" high.

Gary


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## falcondesigns

Absolutely Fabulous.......


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## gareee

Gary K said:


> Here's another photo of the test shot. The wall sections are simply plugged into the floor. No glue, no wall beams. Not too shabby for being less than 2.5" high.
> 
> Gary


Less then 2.5"... yeah then the JL robot WILL be too large. He is 2.5" tall.


Anyone know how tall the chariot robot is off the top of your head?


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## enterprise_fan

About 3.25" tall


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## Fernando Mureb

My God!! How many days of hard work cutting, putting, gluing, sanding and making holes this kit will save? Yes, I know that if you are not doing that, so you are not modeling, but sometimes ... at least with the PL J2 ...


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## woof359

I like that better than the PL's vertion, for some reason my walls kept poping loose.and chance on getting a good look at the ceiling?


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## toyroy

reticulan5 said:


> ...What about...a stand alone diorama with the upper &lower deck.In other words no exterior hull...It would be great to spin it around and view each panel.


How about a downloadable paper model of the lower deck, in scale with the Moebius upper deck?


----------



## toyroy

woof359 said:


> I was wondering, is there any thing you wanted to offer with this kit and the company making it said 'we cant do that'?


Good question. Enquiring minds want to know.


----------



## JohnGuard

AHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!! I GOTS TO HAVE THIS MODEL NOW!!!!!!!!!!

i'm coming apart! my brain cant think of anything else!
i'm obsessed! i need therapy!


----------



## gaetan

To Gary K 

Gary could you please give us the exact measurement of the panel wall , If it is not uncovering a state secret. I am also considering going the 1/32 route , as I already have some figs and a scratchbuilt robot that I could use. It could give me a headstart if I have that measure.

thanks so much, Gaétan


----------



## Fernando Mureb

woof359 said:


> I like that better than the PL's vertion, for some reason my walls kept poping loose.and chance on getting a good look at the ceiling?


Yeah. Moebius are finishing clawns and landing gears to the FS as an extra-kit. Why not does the same with J2's ceiling? Just another step into the aftermarket world.


----------



## Gary K

gaetan said:


> To Gary K
> 
> Gary could you please give us the exact measurement of the panel wall , If it is not uncovering a state secret. I am also considering going the 1/32 route , as I already have some figs and a scratchbuilt robot that I could use. It could give me a headstart if I have that measure.
> 
> thanks so much, Gaétan


No secrets - the real-life soffit was 7'-3" high, which works out to 2.49" at 1/35 scale. After I get home this evening, I'll draw up a cross-section of the model that shows the height of both the walls & ceiling. I'll try to get it posted tonight or tomorrow.

Gary


----------



## gaetan

Thanks Gary, your first assesment at 2.5" was very near.... The cross section will also be welcome.

Gaétan


----------



## Dave Metzner

For those of you who keep asking for Moebius to furnish more and more Jupiter 2 features and add ons please understand we are a SMALL company with very limited staff and limited resources.
Larger companies probably couldn't grant your every wish... we certainly cannot.
The test shot photos that you see represent the limits of our plans for a Jupiter 2 kit.
We have many other projects going now and we have no plans to produce a range of additons or variations to the J-2 kit.

Dave


----------



## Rattrap

That's okay, Dave. You guys have been providing such good basics you're practically supporting a major part of the aftermarket industry (and I mean that in a good way). The fact that you share information with them also means that aftermarket items are available almost on the release ate.

You, Frank and the rest of the gang are doing great work. Please consider yourselves patted on the back by me.

Thanks! :wave:


----------



## Fernando Mureb

Dave Metzner said:


> ...
> We have many other projects going now and we have no plans to produce a range of additons or variations to the J-2 kit.
> 
> Dave





Rattrap said:


> That's okay, Dave....
> 
> You, Frank and the rest of the gang are doing great work. Please consider yourselves patted on the back by me.
> 
> Thanks! :wave:


That's OK! I make these my words. No more demands on the J2 kit.
Thanks for all.


----------



## woof359

Kit looks good the way it is, I sure most understand you cant please every one but maybe the ideas for extra stuff put a bug on the back burner for other kits: "gee I never thought of that" kinda thing


----------



## teslabe

Gary K said:


> Here's another photo of the test shot. The wall sections are simply plugged into the floor. No glue, no wall beams. Not too shabby for being less than 2.5" high.
> 
> Gary


You need to stop this, my jaw is so sore from hitting the floor.....:drunk:
Boy, if I never looked forward to Christmas before then this is the year..... Thank you and nice work....


----------



## Captain Han Solo

teslabe said:


> You need to stop this, my jaw is so sore from hitting the floor.....:drunk:
> Boy, if I never looked forward to Christmas before then this is the year..... Thank you and nice work....


*BEAUTIFUL! SIMPLY STUNNING.*

*There's a lot of oppurtunity for some fantastic photo etch parts!!*


----------



## Richard Baker

beatlepaul said:


> *BEAUTIFUL! SIMPLY STUNNING.*
> 
> *There's a lot of oppurtunity for some fantastic photo etch parts!!*


TinItty Bitty Magnetic Tape Reels...

.


----------



## teslabe

Richard Baker said:


> TinItty Bitty Magnetic Tape Reels...
> 
> .


Richard, Great idea......:thumbsup: It would make it easier for me to make them spin..... This kit is going to make me "EXPLODE".......


----------



## teslabe

beatlepaul said:


> *BEAUTIFUL! SIMPLY STUNNING.*
> 
> *There's a lot of oppurtunity for some fantastic photo etch parts!!*


So you heard my jaw hit.....


----------



## fxshop

Dave Metzner said:


> For those of you who keep asking for Moebius to furnish more and more Jupiter 2 features and add ons please understand we are a SMALL company with very limited staff and limited resources.
> Larger companies probably couldn't grant your every wish... we certainly cannot.
> The test shot photos that you see represent the limits of our plans for a Jupiter 2 kit.
> We have many other projects going now and we have no plans to produce a range of additons or variations to the J-2 kit.
> 
> Dave


 Test shot looks great! Thanks for making these amazing model kits :thumbsup: MOEBIUS ROCKS!!!!

Randy Neubert
VoodooFx


----------



## teslabe

This kit is just "Pornographic"..... I'll need to build it in secrete and have 
special passwords and handshakes just to get into my room to work on it..... I'm not one to drool, but excuse me, I need to change my
shirt.......:wave:


----------



## Gary K

Dave Metzner said:


> For those of you who keep asking for Moebius to furnish more and more Jupiter 2 features and add ons please understand we are a SMALL company with very limited staff and limited resources.
> Larger companies probably couldn't grant your every wish... we certainly cannot.
> The test shot photos that you see represent the limits of our plans for a Jupiter 2 kit.
> We have many other projects going now and we have no plans to produce a range of additons or variations to the J-2 kit.
> 
> Dave


If you want variations, there are many that you easily do, yourself. I lobbied for an interior for the airlock, but Dave nixed it; however, you can easily make one, yourself. Both sides of the inner airlock door have raised detail, and you've already got one wall and a floor. Trace the profile of one airlock wall onto a sheet of 0.040" sheet styrene, cut it out, and install it on the other side of the airlock. Cut a ramp & control panel from additional sheet styrene, and voila, you've got an interior for your airlock!

Gary


----------



## Moebius

Richard Baker said:


> TinItty Bitty Magnetic Tape Reels...
> 
> .


Oh yeah, I can see the reels spinning. I have a funny feeling someone may actually do this! The aftermarket stuff should be incredible. I really can't wait to get one of these built up myself. This may be my first real Moebius kit I do for myself. Just hope I can find the time! I was so disappointed when I got nailed on the Icons J2 years back. This should fill the gap for me!


----------



## Gary K

Here's a simplified cross-section of the J2 model, showing the heights of the walls and ceiling. Since the Moebius model was almost completely patterned after the late 3rd season J2, it doesn't include the ceiling beams (no great loss, since they'd get in the way of viewing the interior). Btw, the ceiling beams are composed of straight lines, so they're easily scratch-built.

Gary


----------



## Fernando Mureb

Gary K said:


> If you want variations, there are many that you easily do, yourself. I lobbied for an interior for the airlock, but Dave nixed it; however, you can easily make one, yourself. Both sides of the inner airlock door have raised detail, and you've already got one wall and a floor. Trace the profile of one airlock wall onto a sheet of 0.040" sheet styrene, cut it out, and install it on the other side of the airlock. Cut a ramp & control panel from additional sheet styrene, and voila, you've got an interior for your airlock!
> 
> Gary


Yes. I'll make both hatches (the inner and outer) sliding and that would require an extra effort to make those patterns on the surfaces of the hatches facing the airlock interior.

Scratch built the space pod access and that "compartment-to-whatever-they-want-it-for", between the ladder and the cabin pressure control, also seems to be a good way to have fun.


----------



## Fernando Mureb

Moebius said:


> Oh yeah, I can see the reels spinning. I have a funny feeling someone may actually do this! The aftermarket stuff should be incredible. I really can't wait to get one of these built up myself. This may be my first real Moebius kit I do for myself. Just hope I can find the time! I was so disappointed when I got nailed on the Icons J2 years back. This should fill the gap for me!


Just a contribution to those aftermarket brave guys.


----------



## Paulbo

Richard Baker said:


> TinItty Bitty Magnetic Tape Reels...


Heck, I did ones for the 1:350 Seaview interior, I'm thinking I can create tape reels 10 times larger


----------



## Fernando Mureb

Fernando Mureb said:


> Yes. I'll make both hatches (the inner and outer) sliding and that would require an extra effort to make those patterns on the surfaces of the hatches facing the airlock interior.
> 
> Scratch built the space pod access and that "compartment-to-whatever-they-want-it-for", between the ladder and the cabin pressure control, also seems to be a good way to have fun.


Two more ideas: built the subceiling spotlight over the airlok inner hatch and use eletroluminecent sheet on the wall beams front side.


----------



## gareee

Thanks for the diagram, Gary!

On my 28" monitor, if you set explorer viewing to 125% size, the pattern is pretty close to actual scale.

The JL robot will fit in there, and looks fine I think, so long as his wheels are removed.

I hate to cannibalize him for anything, but I think in this case its a worthy cause.


----------



## Steve H

Gary K said:


> Here's a simplified cross-section of the J2 model, showing the heights of the walls and ceiling. Since the Moebius model was almost completely patterned after the late 3rd season J2, it doesn't include the ceiling beams (no great loss, since they'd get in the way of viewing the interior). Btw, the ceiling beams are composed of straight lines, so they're easily scratch-built.
> 
> Gary


Wait...wait...those measurements...

Oh, no, nevermind, it's for the model, not a 'real' ship. I thought I had lost my mind and you were saying the interior of the J2, floor to top was around 8 meters and I was all no WAY and...yeah, OK, I'm an idiot.

So then allow me to praise you for your drawing skill. I envy that. I tell you, you'd have made a MINT back in the old days, doing 'fan blueprints' of whatever. You and Ron would have been a fearsome powerhouse, like the old Goeff Mandell and Mike Minor days.

*sigh*


----------



## Richard Baker

I may add the ceiling beams on mine- (UV lighting). I do not think they will block too much of the view- the Flying Sub's worked out fine.

.


----------



## Fernando Mureb

Richard Baker said:


> I may add the ceiling beams on mine- (UV lighting). I do not think they will block too much of the view- the Flying Sub's worked out fine.
> 
> .


If I'm not making a mistake, a think that Ron Gross wrote somewhere, I don't remember where neither when, that the ceiling beams could be glued on the ceiling, so that you could remove the ceiling and nothing would block the view.


----------



## Mark Dorais

Gary K said:


> Here's a simplified cross-section of the J2 model, showing the heights of the walls and ceiling. Since the Moebius model was almost completely patterned after the late 3rd season J2, it doesn't include the ceiling beams (no great loss, since they'd get in the way of viewing the interior). Btw, the ceiling beams are composed of straight lines, so they're easily scratch-built.
> 
> Gary


What a many Spendored thing this is!!:hat:


----------



## woof359

gee wiat untill they start asking for a 3 power core (-: im amazed at how long it is from the chair to the view port.


----------



## OzyMandias

woof359 said:


> gee wiat untill they start asking for a 3 power core (-: im amazed at how long it is from the chair to the view port.


Recliner launch couches, gotta love them...:thumbsup:


----------



## toyroy

woof359 said:


> ...im amazed at how long it is from the chair to the view port.


It affords maximum collision protection from tin-foil meteors and space waste.


----------



## Richard Baker

toyroy said:


> My apologies. I forget that some people don't care about anything beyond assembling kits.


What amazes me is the large number of builders who scream about having to wait for conversion/accurizing kits instead of just chopping up some plastic and fixing things themselves.


.


----------



## Dave Metzner

This thread is intended to discuss the Moebius jupiter 2 test shot. Please limit yout postings to this thread to that topic.
Off topic J-2 general discussions will continue on the newley established Jupiter 2 general discussion thread below.

Thank you.
Dave


----------



## Antimatter

More pictures please.


----------



## woof359

shinny spinny thing in the bubble, any chrome in this kit? didnt wanna be to tech, (-:


----------



## Dave Metzner

No chrome plated parts.

Dave


----------



## John P

Good, that's _so_ 70s.


----------



## Steve H

That's a question that comes to mind. If the spinny thing in the bubble (to replicate the filming model practical effect) is there, HOW is it there? I mean, what's supporting it? Were conjecture ideas cobbled together to make it look like something? Surely not just a plug in the hole that the part fits into, the end.


----------



## woof359

theres a good build up of a Jup interior at youtube under culttvman


----------



## StarshipClass

Can we shrink the pics some so that I don't have to scroll?


----------



## Dave Metzner

The Spinny thing sits on a round base that fits into a plug the fills the hole in the top of the hull and the clear buble covers it all!


----------



## Dave Metzner

woof that's not this kit.


----------



## Dave Metzner

Perfesser,
I don't have time to edit photo sizes.you'll just have to scroll.........
Dave


----------



## gareee

I want bigger photo sizes..


----------



## woof359

I know it wasnt this kit. but like a lot of guys Im thinking this will be the best J2 kit ever and the more ideas we can share the better we can make it.


----------



## toyroy

Steve H said:


> ...the spinny thing in the bubble...


Since the kit represents the third season Jupiter 2, will the kit include a decal, or decals, to replicate the spiral on the spinny thing(if that's the spinny thing Steve was referring to?)


----------



## Seaview

The "spinny thing" he's referring to is that contraption inside the top dome at the top of the ship. 
The spiral you are referring to was the "spinny thing" shaped like the Jupiter 2 inside the central astrogator in the middle of the flight deck.


----------



## Richard Baker

I like the spinny things...

.


----------



## toyroy

Seaview said:


> The "spinny thing" he's referring to is that contraption inside the top dome...


D'oh! _Now_ I understand the chrome-plate question! 

I'd just throw away the useless kit part, and replace it with a nickel silver or stainless steel reflector.


----------



## woof359

acualy it was a disc bent in a V shape spinning, with lights under it shinging upward making it look like it was kinda blinking


----------



## toyroy

Right. It was mounted on the same axis as the fusion core light spinner. You can see them spinning together, in _The Derelict_ footage. Meaning, of course, that the scrim must've been in front of the rotating shaft. Another challenge, for those who want to get the dome lighting right, in addition to a fully detailed interior.

All that was offered for the Polar Lights model was a simulation of the post-spinner dome lighting, which was used when they went to the chaser core lighting.


----------



## j2man

Oh use the chrome spinny thingys out of Robby's head. Works really really well. On blinking light looks like a plethora of blinking lights. LOL


----------



## Y3a

Spinning "V" in the Bubble? Like This:


----------



## Richard Baker

There are a couple of lighting kits which allow you to add rotating bussard domes lighting to the 1/1000 scale and up Enterprise kits. Those are small and fit into tight spaces, perhaps those could be modified to work with the dorsal J2 dome...

.


----------



## Opus Penguin

I always wondered what was in that dome to create that light effect. Is this included in the kit?


----------



## StarshipClass

Dave Metzner said:


> Perfesser,
> I don't have time to edit photo sizes.
> you'll just have to scroll.........
> Dave


Okay, on this page at least, 
everyone needs to hit the 
carriage return after just
a few words. 

Actually, I was hoping the 
"we" part of my request might 
suggest something to the folks 
who are actually posting the photos
rather than put you to any trouble
yourself. :thumbsup:

EDIT: Oh, thank goodness! A new page!!!:woohoo:

EDIT: Another big pic!


----------



## Dave Metzner

yes it's included in the kit.


----------



## Richard Baker

Dave Metzner said:


> yes it's included in the kit.


The original V-Shaped Disk, while true to the filming model, looks a bit disappointing in person. Will Moebius make an interpetive tech substitution like how the stern hatch was given an airlock tunnel in the Flying Sub?

.


----------



## Dave Metzner

Ok, here it is:


----------



## Richard Baker

That looks beautiful!

.


----------



## woof359

one piece top, IMHO its a better idea than PL's kit


----------



## gareee

Pardon me.. I think I just wet myself.

Dave: Are you guys going to be at Dragoncon next month?


----------



## Dave Metzner

don't think Dragoncon is on our schedule.....
Dave


----------



## gareee

Drat.. I was hoping you might bring the prototype for a sneak pek at the real deal.

I GUESS I can wait a few more months for the real thing. >sighs<


----------



## Antimatter

We need more test shots.


----------



## toyroy

Maybe the kit's spinning reflector could be covered with Bare-Metal foil. It still needs to be spun, lighted from below, and(for most authentic results) synched with the rotation of the core lights. Hmm.


----------



## Dave Metzner

Antimatter, 
At this point that happens to be the only build-up of a test shot that there is - I don't have it any longer - it's with Frank in Columbus....

Roy 
We'll look forward to seeing how you accomplish that. Be sure to post pics here.

Dave


----------



## Fernando Mureb

In the image it looks like there was no seam line between the roof and the upper hull.
I mean, was the top plate glued, puttied and sanded smooth?


----------



## toyroy

toyroy said:


> Maybe the kit's spinning reflector could be covered with Bare-Metal foil. It still needs to be spun, lighted from below, and(for most authentic results) synched with the rotation of the core lights. Hmm.





Dave Metzner said:


> Roy
> We'll look forward to seeing how you accomplish that. Be sure to post pics here.


Thanks Dave, but Mark(Y3a) is _way_ ahead of me, on these problems.


----------



## Dave Metzner

Fernando,
The upper hull is one piece - go back and look at the first photos in this thread the photo that shows a pile of parts plainly shows the upper hull...
The photo of the assembled test shot shows bare plastic no primer no paint just plain old naked plastic.

Roy, 
OK, so that means that both you and Mark will have pics of your built up models for us? 
I really do enjoy seeing photos of built-up kits because it lets me know that people are building and enjoying our kits...


----------



## Y3a

Gee Dave, I cobbled together a mechanical fusion core and "V" spinner from a model railroad gearbox and motor, and the clever use of shrink tube as insulation. I power six 1.5 volt screw in lightbulbs from a pair of 9 volt batteries, and under the spinning "V" I used 6 yellow LED's which will be replaced with white. This was for the Lunar Models 2 foot model. I have some photos in my album. The hard part was simple brushes to get the power to the lights. I used the springs from cheap click pens. 

I did a similar job on the Polar Lights 1 foot model, using a single modified mini RC airplane servo. The brushes were on the back of the spinning plastic disk with 6 grain of dust light bulbs powered by 2 AA sized ni-cads. The servo was powered by 1 AA nicad. The light disk had 2 brass rings glued on the top. I soldered the lights to the rings and used a model railroad brush set in brass tubes to rub the rings to make contact. I added oversized fins on the fusion core to enhance the effect. no gear on the PL job, but the LM 2 foot job also has working gear. even the footpad doors lift and slide away, and the footpads swivel like the Hero. It weighs a TON! I learned many lessons on that model. Smaller power for main servos. Brighter LED's instead of lightbulbs, but still spinning instead of a chaser.


----------



## otto

I saw the test shot up close yesterday. It exceeded my expectations! as usual LOL.


----------



## Fernando Mureb

Dave Metzner said:


> Fernando,
> The upper hull is one piece - go back and look at the first photos in this thread the photo that shows a pile of parts plainly shows the upper hull...


Thanks Dave. I had seen the image on the first post and thought the top was coupled to the hull just accidentaly.


----------



## Ductapeforever

The Only Thing that would make the wait for the J-2 kit bearable,...if only it were true!


----------



## Capt. Krik

Just got around to seeing the build up test shot. Looks great, Frank and Dave. I look forward to the kit's release. :thumbsup:


----------



## HabuHunter32

This has to be the most sought after kit in recent memmory! Exelent job as always Dave! We all thought we were in heaven when the P/L kit came out and judging from the test shot pics this one blows it away! I hope that this will be a runnaway best seller for you! Keep them coming!


----------



## woof359




----------



## bert model maker

Great picture woof, anyone have a clear shot at the landing gear/legs ?


----------



## woof359

i got this off the IMPS page, best they had, amazing how they focused on armor


----------



## Thunder Hawk

Dave.

In the photo the only clear windows are the main window
and a port hole.

Will all the hatches and other port holes be molded closed?

I have not read this entire thread, but having hatches that can
be glued on or left off would be a nice feature.
It would give folks a chance to do some mod. work.

If the upper hull is one piece, could the hatches and other
port hole windows be molded as extra parts included in the kit?

That way if you want to cut out the airlock door and windows
you can have the extra parts in the kit for added detail.

Thanks.
George H. Boyd :thumbsup:


----------



## John P

I didn't know Adam Savage from Mythbusters worked for Moebius!


----------



## JeffG

That's gonna be way cool and easily THE only Jupiter 2 kit one needs.


----------



## Dave Metzner

Hi George,
All the openings in the upper hull are molded as closed - there are no extra parts included for those who may want to open them.
I think that the main airlock door could be cut out pretty easily if you take your time and use a fine razor saw....

Dave


----------



## gojira61

Here’s some shots I took of the interior when I was at the show, not the best quality as I took them from my BlackBerry, I hope Frank and Dave don’t mind if I post them.

Remember, this is a test shot and not final goods, enjoy.


----------



## Seaview

JeffG said:


> That's gonna be way cool and easily THE only Jupiter 2 kit one needs.


 
Like Jeff said! Thanks, gentlemen! :thumbsup:


----------



## gojira61

One more.


----------



## toyroy

John P said:


> I didn't know Adam Savage from Mythbusters worked for Moebius!


_That's_ who it is! (Shhhh! He's working undercover, to check the accuracy of the Jupiter 2 kit. Wonder when that segment will be on the show?...)


----------



## Richard Baker

Thanks for the new Test Shot photos-this kit is going to be spectacular!

.


----------



## toyroy

gojira61 said:


> Here’s some shots I took of the interior when I was at the show...


WOW, _GREAT_ shots...thank you! 

The elevator is really nice. Wonder if it could be made operable?


----------



## toyroy

Dave, could the soffit be made clear?


----------



## woof359

can you get clear stryene from Everclear? theres gotta be some way to like up the wall beams.................light strips like for the Enterprise engines?


----------



## j2man

I am soooooo excited! I can't wait till December! Great shots by the way..............


----------



## SFCOM1

gojira61 said:


> Here’s some shots I took of the interior when I was at the show, not the best quality as I took them from my BlackBerry, I hope Frank and Dave don’t mind if I post them.
> 
> Remember, this is a test shot and not final goods, enjoy.


Wow!

I am going to have so much fun when this kit comes out! :thumbsup:


----------



## Gary K

Richard Baker said:


> The original V-Shaped Disk, while true to the filming model, looks a bit disappointing in person. Will Moebius make an interpetive tech substitution like how the stern hatch was given an airlock tunnel in the Flying Sub?


But of course! I thought a V-shaped disk left something to be desired, but I got an inspiration from the "Wreck of the Robot" episode. The Saticons' cave was filled with all kinds of leftover props, including a pair of back-to-back parabolic antennas, mounted to a Lazy Susan base (and painted Irwin Allen orange). I immediately thought, "Wow, this could be a scanner they built for the upper bubble of the 3-legged mock-up, but never installed." The prop appeared again in the cliffhanger at the end of the episode, sitting atop a humungous thermometer:











I drew up plans for a simplified scanner, which is less than an inch wide. Here's a close-up view of the test shot's scanner, which includes a couple of simulated light bulbs: 











Here's a side view. If you close your eyes halfway and squint, the antennas kinda resemble a V-shaped disk, and also appear functional:










Gary


----------



## Captain Han Solo

*BEAUTIFUL...SIMPLY BEAUTIFUL!:thumbsup:*


----------



## Fernando Mureb

woof359 said:


> can you get clear stryene from Everclear? theres gotta be some way to like up the wall beams.................light strips like for the Enterprise engines?


I see 2 ways to light up the wall beams: replace them by acrylic and light'em from behind or use eletroluminecent sheet covering the front face of the walls. What do you think about?


----------



## Fernando Mureb

gojira61 said:


> Here’s some shots I took of the interior when I was at the show, not the best quality as I took them from my BlackBerry, I hope Frank and Dave don’t mind if I post them.
> 
> Remember, this is a test shot and not final goods, enjoy.


Thank you so much for the images!!:thumbsup:


----------



## mrdean

toyroy said:


> WOW, _GREAT_ shots...thank you!
> 
> The elevator is really nice. Wonder if it could be made operable?


There is only one floor! :jest:

Mark D


----------



## gareee

gojira61 said:


> Here’s some shots I took of the interior when I was at the show, not the best quality as I took them from my BlackBerry, I hope Frank and Dave don’t mind if I post them.
> 
> Remember, this is a test shot and not final goods, enjoy.


Where's my manners? I ALSO would like to thank you for those pics!


----------



## Dave Metzner

No clear sofit. No clear wall beams.
Why would you even think about an operating elevator!? There is no place for it to go!There isn't enough space between the deck and the bottom of the hull at the elevator for the elevator pedestal to drop below the floor.....

Dave


----------



## Gemini1999

I have to say....

Those recent images for the test shot are pretty fantastic. There's an incredible amount of detail on this kit. Just looking at it now shows how easily this thing is to build up. All you need is the right paint and it would make a fabulous display model. Of course, adding some lighting here and there won't hurt a bit. If anything, lighting will make this kit spectacular. As it stand right now, out of the box looks pretty damn good.

I have no problem paying the sale price for this kit when it's available and I'm really looking forward to that day.

Bryan


----------



## flyingfrets

Gemini1999 said:


> I have to say....
> 
> I have no problem paying the sale price for this kit when it's available and I'm really looking forward to that day.
> 
> Bryan


Me either. I paid full price for Lunar's kit (including interior)...*twice*...at 3 times the cost of this one...for a model that wasn't 1/4 as detailed...or 1/8 as nice.


----------



## bert model maker

I think what toyroy meant when he wondered if the elevator could be made operable is NOT the "up & down" but rather the front opening & closing so it could be displayed in an open or closed position, am i correct Toyroy ?


----------



## JAT

bert model maker said:


> I think what toyroy meant when he wondered if the elevator could be made operable is NOT the "up & down" but rather the front opening & closing so it could be displayed in an open or closed position, am i correct Toyroy ?


might also be fun to have the elevator raise, do a cool star-mapping blister extended above the saucer kind of thing.


----------



## Gary K

bert model maker said:


> I think what toyroy meant when he wondered if the elevator could be made operable is NOT the "up & down" but rather the front opening & closing so it could be displayed in an open or closed position, am i correct Toyroy ?


The elevator cage's tubes are cast at or near scale thickness, and the elevator cage is very delicate. To make the sliding doorway operable, you'd almost have to use the equivalent of a couple of larger, curved hypodermic needles. It's not impossible, but would take a lot of work.

Gary


----------



## toyroy

Gary K said:


> ...I drew up plans for a simplified scanner, which is less than an inch wide. Here's a close-up view of the test shot's scanner, which includes a couple of simulated light bulbs:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a side view. If you close your eyes halfway and squint, the antennas kinda resemble a V-shaped disk, and also appear functional:


Great "stock" scanner, Gary! :thumbsup:


----------



## toyroy

bert model maker said:


> I think what toyroy meant when he wondered if the elevator could be made operable is NOT the "up & down" but rather the front opening & closing so it could be displayed in an open or closed position, am i correct Toyroy ?





Gary K said:


> The elevator cage's tubes are cast at or near scale thickness, and the elevator cage is very delicate. To make the sliding doorway operable, you'd almost have to use the equivalent of a couple of larger, curved hypodermic needles. It's not impossible, but would take a lot of work.


There are display possibilities, such as a crash site, where a _fully_ working elevator makes sense.


----------



## gojira61

gareee said:


> Where's my manners? I ALSO would like to thank you for those pics!


No problem guys, glad I snapped a few pics while I was there.


----------



## toyroy

Dave Metzner said:


> No clear sofit. No clear wall beams...


I take that to mean those parts are on sprues with other parts you definitely don't want clear. I asked about the soffit because it gets in the way of viewing the magnificent interior. I understand that it would need to be more than merely clear-cast, to effectively see through. Others have made the point about clear wall beams facilitating lighting of the inside edge.


----------



## Fernando Mureb

The possibilities for photoetch parts may be driving the aftermarket guys crazy right now.


----------



## Fernando Mureb

The accuracy and delicacy of the various control panels with all those raised "buttons" and "lights" will make very difficult to decide whether cut them off and replace with something like the Outer Space Outfitters decals (if they come up with it), or simply paint the buttons and lights, not to mention the tempting use of fiber optics.


----------



## Dave Metzner

I'm sure that there are ways to make anything you want operate - 
That is not part of this thread
If you want to know what's in the test shot I'll try to answer. If you want to talk about how youre' going to build the kit and crash scene dioramas etc. please go down to the general discussion thread -that's why the two threads were separated in the first place..

As for a clear soffit you can take it to mean that there will be no clear sofit the clear parts of the kit are already established and we won't be adding more clear parts..

I will also point out that the top of the hull doesn't exactly just drop onto the bottom of the ship - there are seven large and 8 small locator pins that fit into locator holes in the lower section of the hull...
The two hull sections fit together real nicely but it takes some effort to engage all the locators and put them together. I'm not sure you'll want to be assembling and dissassembling the hull too often...

Dave


----------



## Steve H

Oh, man, that's just beautiful stuff. Gary, very nice job on the spinny thingie! Good research!

But it's funny how memory can play tricks with you. I could have SWORN...that interior seems so small. I swear there were more walls than that. I really, honestly, don't recall the freeze tubes taking up about half the volume!


----------



## Ductapeforever

Tic, Tic, Tic, LOCK!


----------



## Gary K

Steve H said:


> Oh, man, that's just beautiful stuff. Gary, very nice job on the spinny thingie! Good research!
> 
> But it's funny how memory can play tricks with you. I could have SWORN...that interior seems so small. I swear there were more walls than that. I really, honestly, don't recall the freeze tubes taking up about half the volume!


Thanks for the compliment. Trust me - the interior wasn't all that large. The caramel-colored inner portion of the floor was only 18' in diameter, and the freezing tubes were really crammed into the available space. I think the cameramen made ample use of wide-angle lenses when filming the interior. After I drew plans of the TOS Enterprise for "Trials & Tribble-ations", Mike Okuda gave me a private tour of the Trek sets. I was amazed by the fact that the sets were half the size they appeared to be on TV.

Back on topic... 

Toyroy - if you want a better view of the interior, you could simply not glue the soffit in place and make it removable; however, you'll have to be *very* careful not to break the delicate elevator cage when you're reinstalling the soffit.

One last thing....

If any of you thought the prototype's landing gear, which was based on the full-scale legs, looked a tad spindly in one of the earlier photos, you were right. Due to a couple screw-ups, the landing pads were undersized and stuck out too far from the base of the landing stairs. These problems should be fixed on the 2nd test shot.

Gary


----------



## bert model maker

Gary, so there WILL be changes to the landing gear other than what was shown the first time around ? will it be the legs & pads, or the pads only ?


----------



## bert model maker

I will also point out that the top of the hull doesn't exactly just drop onto the bottom of the ship - there are seven large and 8 small locator pins that fit into locator holes in the lower section of the hull...
The two hull sections fit together real nicely but it takes some effort to engage all the locators and put them together. I'm not sure you'll want to be assembling and dissassembling the hull too often...

Dave
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
dave, so it will be best to leave the hull in place and view everything through the viewport then ? How fragile are those locator pins ? I built the lower deck on my Pl J-2 but taking everything apart to show it is a real pain to get it back together so I avoid it and show a picture of the lower deck and tell people "trust me, it's in there"


----------



## woof359

when well the assemble directions and parts list be avalible to view? it would help in making notes and getting a list of paints ready.


----------



## StarshipClass

Gary K said:


> If any of you thought the prototype's landing gear, which was based on the full-scale legs, looked a tad spindly in one of the earlier photos, you were right. Due to a couple screw-ups, the landing pads were undersized and stuck out too far from the base of the landing stairs. These problems should be fixed on the 2nd test shot.


Thanks for pointing that out, Gary! :thumbsup:

I was definitely worried about that.


----------



## jquestjr64

When I heard Moebius would be crafting a J2, I was ecstatic. After seeing these test shots, my interest is through the roof. Cannot wait for this one.


----------



## Lou Dalmaso

could you replace the connection points of the locator pins with wee magnets? Then you could make your J2 "topless" for showin' off.

what would be the market for a GK soffet cast in clear? It would have to be very well cast and maybe polished


----------



## Dave Metzner

The instruction sheet will be available for viewing when you open the kit box.

If you don't care about how well the edges of the upper hull fit to the lower hull you can probably remove the locators. however the large upper hull is not the most rigid piece I've ever handled, removal of the locators will possibly adversely affect the final fit between top and bottom...

Casting the sofit in clear resin will be a challenge because it is failry large (about 10 1/2 inches in diameter) and it is thin!

Best solution is to leave it loose and remove it to open the view of the interior..


----------



## Gary K

bert model maker said:


> Gary, so there WILL be changes to the landing gear other than what was shown the first time around ? will it be the legs & pads, or the pads only ?


For sure, the pads will be resized, and the side of the stairway will be slightly revised to eliminate a seam. What gets changed beyond that will be a balance of accuracy, ease of assembly, budget, and schedule, and will depend upon what Dave Metzner and the factory in China decide. 

The width & length of the landing gear are about the same as on the 4-footer. One of the main differences is in the size of the platform at the base of the stairs. On a 48 ft ship, the platform would be about 27" off the ground, and on a 52 ft ship (which is what you need if you want to fit an interior inside), the platform would be almost 30" high. One of the reasons I went with the full-scale gear (besides the fact that they showed it so much more on the show) is that the platform is not so high off the ground and allows the actors/crew (not to mention the Robot) much easier entry & egress from the ship.

Gary


----------



## j2man

Are there any test shots of how the top fits the bottom? In other words, a frontal view similiar to that of the landing footage (in the big yellow circle). Would like to have a gander from that particular view........


----------



## gojira61

j2man said:


> Are there any test shots of how the top fits the bottom? In other words, a frontal view similiar to that of the landing footage (in the big yellow circle). Would like to have a gander from that particular view........


This is the only shot I have from the front but it's out of focus and the top is not on.


----------



## Dave Metzner

This is a low angle shot of the test shot that Frank had at Columbus - with the upper hull in place -obviously the top is not glued to the bottom...but this is probably a good idea of how the halves will fit if not glued together. The seam between top and bottom is quite acceptible and would look pretty good once the two haves were cemented together... 
Which would of course requires that all the interior parts were cemented in place because you're going to need to turn the model upside down to glue the seam!


----------



## bert model maker

Very nice !


----------



## Steve H

Dave Metzner said:


> The instruction sheet will be available for viewing when you open the kit box.
> 
> If you don't care about how well the edges of the upper hull fit to the lower hull you can probably remove the locators. however the large upper hull is not the most rigid piece I've ever handled, removal of the locators will possibly adversely affect the final fit between top and bottom...
> 
> Casting the sofit in clear resin will be a challenge because it is failry large (about 10 1/2 inches in diameter) and it is thin!
> 
> Best solution is to leave it loose and remove it to open the view of the interior..


I assume from this that the upper hull, because of the interior and all, doesn't have any real bracing ala the large frames in the lower hull? So the upper hull essentially relies on the sofit and the interior for rigidity? 

Makes sense, the places out of sight wouldn't help the situation much if there were something there.

One way, if one wanted to remove the upper hull for display, might be install other 'mounting posts' and some polycaps for them to press into.


----------



## bert model maker

When looking through the front viewport only, to view the interior, certain parts of the interior located at the far, forward sides such as the hatch and equipment on the other side of the pilot walls won't be visible. How decicate are the locator pins in regards to snapping off when the hull is removed repeatedly ?


----------



## Dave Metzner

How to remove the upper hull for display is a problem that the builder will have to solve for himself - there is no bracing built into the upper hull at all - 
The kit was not designed to be taken apart most easily - it was designed to fit together as precisely as possible in an effort to end up with a good looking finished model when everything is cemented together..
There are limits to the number of features that can be accomodated in a model of this size and still get it produced in a reasonable time frame at a reasonable cost.
We've tried to work within those limits....


----------



## Dave Metzner

The only way you see the interior of my 1/48 B-17and my 1/48 Lancaster is to look thru the windows.....all the interior detail is there, I painted and installed all of it - you can't see much of it that's the way those models were designed and the way I built them !

The question is not how delicate the locator pins are, the question is how much time do you want to spend getting everything lined up to put it back together every time you take it apart.
If you're comfortable wrestling your finished model around repeatedly to re- assemble it then there is no problem... if you want to cut locators off that's ok too.

Let me suggest that this is not really the time or place for this discussion.

The design of the kit is not going to change any further at this late date... it will be up to the builder to decide how he wants to deal with making the upper hull removable when he starts building it...

Dave


----------



## toyroy

Dave Metzner said:


> ...there are seven large and 8 small locator pins that fit into locator holes in the lower section of the hull...I'm not sure you'll want to be assembling and dissassembling the hull too often.





Lou Dalmaso said:


> could you replace the connection points of the locator pins with wee magnets?...





Dave Metzner said:


> ...If you don't care about how well the edges of the upper hull fit to the lower hull you can probably remove the locators...


I suspect a high proportion of builders will want to pop the hood, and show off the goodies. Would it be possible to enlarge the diameter of the locator pins and holes(to increase the pin strength,) and reduce their number? I'm assuming alignment is paramount, and attachment(via friction-fitting of the pins in the holes) is relatively unimportant.


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## Modeler1964

Awesome! Just Awesome! Lovin it! Thanks Moebius!


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## mrdean

toyroy said:


> I suspect a high proportion of builders will want to pop the hood, and show off the goodies. Would it be possible to enlarge the diameter of the locator pins and holes(to increase the pin strength,) and reduce their number? I'm assuming alignment is paramount, and attachment(via friction-fitting of the pins in the holes) is relatively unimportant.


Dave just wrote "The design of the kit is not going to change any further at this late date... it will be up to the builder to decide how he wants to deal with making the upper hull removable when he starts building it..."

Mark Dean


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## robiwon

I'm just waiting for it to come out. Then I can decide what to do with it.


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## toyroy

mrdean said:


> Dave just wrote "The design of the kit is not going to change any further at this late date... it will be up to the builder to decide how he wants to deal with making the upper hull removable when he starts building it..."


Obviously, I was writing my post at the same time as Dave. Moebius is making changes to the landing gear, which requires tooling changes, and I frankly don't know how feasible my suggestion is.


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## Dave Metzner

Roy - The kit is what it is.. build it when you get it....
Changes that needed to be made were given to the factorytwo weeks ago. The window for making changes is closed.

There will not be anymore changes - locators have to fit precisely if large parts are to be properly alligned, there was never any consideration to doing it any other way

I don't agree that the largest percentage of builders will make the top removable..
I'm quite sure that many of the people who post here are Jupiter 2 fanatics and are in a small minority of kit buyers, most of whom will build this kit with major modifications. 
I expect that the greatest proportion of the people who buy the kit will build what the instruction sheet tells them to build.
I trust my experience in dealing with retail customers in a hobby store for more than 20 years... Most of the people who buy kits build them pretty much right out of the box and this kit is no exception to that rule.
I also expect that the advanced builders will be able to figure out ways to build what they want out of this kit without many big problems..
I know that there will be an abundance of aftermarket goodies available for the kit as well, for those who want to dress the kit up.

Dave


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## Lou Dalmaso

Dave,
I respect that you've got your kit too far down the tracks to make any changes. My comments were directed to the aftermarket crowd.

Thanks for whetting our appetites!


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## j2man

Thank you very much Dave. That is a very good shot of the seams. No problem one way or the other, i.e., glued or unglued. I appreciate your patience with all of this......I'll not bother on about anything else regarding the Jupiter 2. I'll just wait till December. Your insight into the behind the scenes have been quite helpful as well.


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## Gemini1999

I know that people love seeing new shots of the test shot as I do, but I must admit, that with each new photo being posted, it just ramps up the excitement factor. Personally, I'm glad that the window for making changes has come and gone and that those changes that were last submitted were only made to improve the kit and it's appearance so it will have a high satisfaction rate overall. The smaller details and "requested" changes are obviously the kind of changes that people can make to their own kit once it's purchased. If anything, the thread(s) involving this model prove that you can't design and produce a kit by a "committee". If that were so, you'd be making changes left and right and it might never get released in a timely manner.

As I said, I love the pics, but now comes the wait.... Oy vay!

Bryan


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## gareee

Other then the size of the landing pads, that looks damned perfect to me!

Out of curiosity, what issues over then the landing pads and afforementioned things have you guys run into? Anything you *really* wanted to achieve, but couldn't becuase of budget/build reasons?


----------



## toyroy

Dave Metzner said:


> ...I don't agree that the largest percentage of builders will make the top removable...Most of the people who buy kits build them pretty much right out of the box...


Honestly Dave, I think you seriously underestimate the magnificence of the interior you've created. As Bert pointed out, there's simply no way to even _see_ everything, looking through the viewport. Even with the hull top off, it's still hard to appreciate all the detail, with the soffit in place. 

No, whatever Moebius does or doesn't do about the hull attachment, this is primarily an interior display model.


----------



## Paulbo

A quick note on the "size" of the interior - don't forget that the astrogator and piloting stations were often removed from the set (I assume they sunk into some TARDIS related area that also holds the lower level and drive unit). This makes the area look much larger. Factoring in wide-angle lenses and the set looks larger still. From the photos I've seen, this puppy looks pretty much dead nuts.



Gemini1999 said:


> ... If anything, the thread(s) involving this model prove that you can't design and produce a kit by a "committee". If that were so, you'd be making changes left and right and it might never get released in a timely manner.


I think you could remove the words "in a timely manner" and be even more accurate 



gareee said:


> Anything you *really* wanted to achieve, but couldn't becuase of budget/build reasons?


If I were Moebius, I wouldn't touch that question with a 10 foot pole!


----------



## gareee

Why? They are delivering an amazing model at a great price. There are always things wed "like' to do, but just can't be justified for one of another reason.


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## Dave Metzner

Bryan Design by committe is just another description for chaos....

Roy you're entitled to you opinion. 
My reasoning is based on personal experience selling plastic model kits and accessories to customers for more than 20 years. 
Trust me most of these kits will built right out of the box, they will be be closed up when the builder is done..
Most builders will finish the model put it on a shelf somewhere and then rip the shrink wrap off the next kit that they want to build..

Garee the things we'd like to have done question won't get an answer from me. My view is that has no place in this discussion. To answer such a question would provide one more excuse for some members of this forum to second guess the design of the kit.


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## falcondesigns

Dave!,Cancel the kit NOW!Before it's too LATE!!!!!.................................LOL.


----------



## JeffG

Only in the world of Irwin Allen. I always thought that the astrogator should have been wired like a nerve center and nearly impossible to remove entirely from it's mounts. But of course, it was no more difficult to remove than a coffee table. Gotta love it!


----------



## HabuHunter32

*Omg!*

OMG! That last pic of the Jupiter 2 from a low angle confirms what I had suspected...This is going to be the best SCI-FI kit of all time! This will be my 4th Jupiter 2. I have already built the P/L and the Lunar 16 inch kit. I have the Lunar 24 inch kit but it is still in the box at this point. The new Moebuis blows them all away. As far as modifacations that I will make...None! This kit looks darn near perfect! Also I am one of the retail customers that Dave was speeking of. I mostly build in the out of the box style. Aftermarket Decals are about as far as I go for most kits. The only time I stray to the other side is when there is no kit of the version that I want to build like my SR-71 to D21 that I am working on. 

I pre-ordered this beauty from culttvman the 1st day that it was offered and boy am I glad I did! December...please come early! Thanks Frank and Dave and Gary and Ron!


----------



## Paulbo

gareee said:


> Why? They are delivering an amazing model at a great price. There are always things wed "like' to do, but just can't be justified for one of another reason.


Garee, you're absolutely right - this is an amazing model at a great price, but I think the previous 17 pages of posts pretty much answer your question. Or to put it more succinctly: Answering your previous question would make the previous 17 pages of posts seem like a drop in the bucket what with people chiming in on "well, why didn't you DO that thing you thought about?" or "you could have done THIS and you decided to do THAT?".

Dave's absolutely right to let this question drop.


----------



## Steve H

Dave Metzner said:


> (snip to get to the point)
> Garee the things we'd like to have done question won't get an answer from me. My view is that has no place in this discussion. To answer such a question would provide one more excuse for some members of this forum to second guess the design of the kit.


I'd like to respectfully suggest it DOES have a point when the kit comes out. Not in a defensive way but as a learning experience and (dare I say?) a teaching tool.

If nothing else I respectfully suggest you might put it all down SOMEWHERE while it's fresh, because dammit I DO want to see a 'making of and how to build' book come out! And that's all the further I'll go with that because, you know, wish in one hand, crap in the other and see which one fills up first.


----------



## Dave Metzner

Nope NOT a chance that you'll get me to answer that question, as far as I'm concerned, there is no point to it.... I've already heard more than enough of "why didn't you"....and "I'd like to suggest"...not to mention "you really ought to" 

I'm sure not going to spend time "puttiing it all down somewhere" because I have about twenty - five more projects lined up right behind this one....since Frank pays me to develop kits that's where i'll be spending my time, so I guess you can figure out which hand is going to fill up first.

Let's just leave it at that.

Dave


----------



## Dave Metzner

The next voice you hear may be the moderator!

Dave


----------



## Gemini1999

I've got an idea for those that feel that the soffit will get in the way of viewing the interior if they keep the upper half of the ship's skin as a "removable" item.... Now, I don't know how it might affect the fit and finish, but why not attatch the soffit to the roof of the upper shell, so when you remove the upper half, your view of the interior isn't obstructed?

It's just off the top of my head, but it's a lot more practical than asking a modeling company to come up with a solution to fit the desires of a certain segment of the model building community.

Just a suggestion...

Bryan


----------



## gareee

Dave Metzner said:


> Nope NOT a chance that you'll get me to answer that question, as far as I'm concerned, there is no point to it.... I've already heard more than enough of "why didn't you"....and "I'd like to suggest"...not to mention "you really ought to"
> 
> I'm sure not going to spend time "puttiing it all down somewhere" because I have about twenty - five more projects lined up right behind this one....since Frank pays me to develop kits that's where i'll be spending my time, so I guess you can figure out which hand is going to fill up first.
> 
> Let's just leave it at that.
> 
> Dave


Yeah I don't blame you for not wanting to give people more fodder to complain about.

I was thinking about all those game diaries that are released by game companys after they are released, talking about what did and din;t make the cut, and why.

Interesting trivia, but with the way people abuse the preview thread, I don't blame you guys at all.

Will you guys get the replacement parts for your prototype buildup, and post those, once the changes you put in for are completed?


----------



## StarshipClass

As far as I'm concerned, more than a rudimentary interior for this kit is just icing on the cake for me--and in this case there's plenty of icing.

I've pre-ordered two of the kits and looking forward to getting them in. Except for lighting one of them with a few white LEDs on the interior (which will be sealed shut) and a perhaps a lighted core, Dave is right: straight out of the box builds for me. Simple outside and enough greeblies inside to satisfy my cravings.


----------



## Richard Baker

Fernando Mureb said:


> The accuracy and delicacy of the various control panels with all those raised "buttons" and "lights" will make very difficult to decide whether cut them off and replace with something like the Outer Space Outfitters decals (if they come up with it), or simply paint the buttons and lights, not to mention the tempting use of fiber optics.


I will probably remove and cast them in clear like I am doing for the Flying Sub. I like the depth of the detail molded in and fiber optic cannot make a Irwin Allen spquare panel light look too good IMO.

.
===================================
This was posted a while back- why it ended up here I have no idea.
It was posted before Dave shouted at us to stop talking about how we would build this kit.
===================================


----------



## gareee

I'm thinking the ceiling would really benefit from some lighting, so when you look in the windows, you can see everything inside.

Course an LED in each suspension tube might already cast more light then needed.


----------



## woof359

I was thinking that since there no bottom deck the fusion core flashing light cood filter thru to illuminate the freeze tubes and elevator, if you drill out the astrogator it wood get that flashing light too.


----------



## GEH737

I think it looks great - far better than anything we've been able to get in the past (with my thanks to all those who made ANYTHING available before this). The Star Trek guys have had decades to discuss every little thing about "their" ships. Every single post on all these multiple threads has one thing in common - Excitement about something we've all waited a very long time for. Thanks Moeibus and all that have been involved in this - it's been a long forty years.

George


----------



## gimijimi

*IPMS Nationals Jupiter 2 Test Shot*

Steve Iverson has just posted a photo in his "Ramblings" site.

I have to disagree with where the design of this model is going. I don't get the recessed ledge-work on the front view port. I thought this was just the TV crashsite shooting prop rendering. If you look at filming minatures, the "Derelict" and "Blast Off Into Space" episodes you can see that the front window is practically flush with the hull. On one of the Jupiter 2 models used in the meteor impact scenes, the windows look almost curved to match the profile of the hull. Why not go more in this direction with the Moebius Jupiter 2? Why go with all this recessed, non aerodynamic window well stuff?

I'm relatively new to this site and don't know how to post photos that I have that would serve as "examples."


----------



## RSN

It has been stated repeatedly that there is no ONE Jupiter 2 to go by. In the photos I attached you can see the Jupiter has a slight recess to the viewport. Not as drastic as the set, but it is there. The curved window is the Gemini XII miniature. The dividers are actually contoured with the hull, unlike the Jupiter, where they go straight down. The Moebius model is a beautiful blending of all the variants, Set, full size mock-up, 18", and 4'.

Can't wait to get a hold of it!!!!!!


----------



## John P

Dave Metzner said:


> Bryan Design by committe is just another description for chaos....


Also known as my job!
I'm involved with two projects at work at the moment: We've been trying to design a commemorative coin representing the company; and I'm designing a logo for a particular project. Unfortunately a billion people, right on up to the president of the company, and the customer, all stick their noses in. It's stunning how many times I've had to throw the designs out and start all over again in a "fresh direction" .


----------



## Dave Metzner

The good part of my job is I only have Frank to make happy... 
The other thing is that I learned along time ago that you can't please everybody, so find one or not more than two peole who really know what they're doing on a project and work only with them!
Thus this new Jupiter 2 is essentially the work of one guy who really does know what he's working with not a comittee of LIS fans....


----------



## mrdean

Dave Metzner said:


> The good part of my job is I only have Frank to make happy...
> The other thing is that I learned along time ago that you can't please everybody, so find one or not more than two peole who really know what they're doing on a project and work only with them!
> Thus this new Jupiter 2 is essentially the work of one guy who really does know what he's working with not a comittee of LIS fans....


And it has worked out *GREAT* so far! FS-1, Seaview, Chariot.....

Mark Dean


----------



## woof359

Does Moebius use the same comapny to make all there kits? so far all the kits have had air tight fit between parts that need very little filling


----------



## gimijimi

Dave Metzner said:


> The good part of my job is I only have Frank to make happy...
> The other thing is that I learned along time ago that you can't please everybody, so find one or not more than two peole who really know what they're doing on a project and work only with them!
> Thus this new Jupiter 2 is essentially the work of one guy who really does know what he's working with not a comittee of LIS fans....


Please don't get me wrong. I've had two kits on pre-order now for what feels like a year. So, yes, I'm excited. But I've also waited 40-years for this kit. And being a lover of this particular flying saucer qualifies me to offer complements (which I have in great abundance), along with criticism. I feel perfectly entitlled to put my mouth where I put my money. I saw the parts list picture earlier this month and thought "wonderful." But the frontal shot provided this week reminds me of "Das Bunker Jupiter 2," and not even the spaceship shown on your box art, which seems to be a vote, by the box art designer, for the flusher front view port windows.

Hey, I'm only saying (that I need to learn how to attach photos).


----------



## kdaracal

Thanks to Dave and Moebius for making my dreams come true. I still cannot believe this is really coming. Amazing detail, giant size, super accuracy, incredible quality, all in a displayable and affordable package. I would LOVE to see a DVD documentary on this company called Moebius. BRILLIANT! Thanks again, guys and gals.


----------



## Ron Gross

gimijimi said:


> Please don't get me wrong. I've had two kits on pre-order now for what feels like a year. So, yes, I'm excited. But I've also waited 40-years for this kit. And being a lover of this particular flying saucer qualifies me to offer complements (which I have in great abundance), along with criticism. I feel perfectly entitlled to put my mouth where I put my money. I saw the parts list picture earlier this month and thought "wonderful." But the frontal shot provided this week reminds me of "Das Bunker Jupiter 2," and not even the spaceship shown on your box art, which seems to be a vote, by the box art designer, for the flusher front view port windows.
> 
> Hey, I'm only saying (that I need to learn how to attach photos).


Gimijimi,
I actually did the box art over a year and a half ago, and since there was no Moebius test shot available at that time, I used my own scratch build as a guide. Something was needed to pitch to Kevin Burns, so a box design was prepared with this art, and fortunately, he gave both this piece and the project as a whole a big thumbs up. 

I was confident that the detailing would be reasonably close to the that of the final design, and that did indeed turn out to be the case. This is especially true in the area of the hull contour, as all inflection points and curves match up almost perfectly. When Gary and I were going over design details last year, I asked him to do an overlay of his actual physical scan results against my earlier hand drawn profile to verify this.

As far as the window area is concerned, there is an issue with reconciling the interior to this contour, while minimizing the resultant elongated distance from the cockpit to the view port. A recessed effect helps in this respect, and is really not that different than what the 4' hero miniature displayed anyway. Therefore, I support the decisions that Gary made with this aspect of the model. I'm sure there will be other minor differences between the art work and the kit, but overall, I'm confident that the cover will be a good representation of what lies inside the box.

So I guess I'm in Dave's camp on this one. The kit is what it is, and is wide open to customizations, if one so desires. From what I've seen of the test shot, it is a beautiful representation of our beloved space ship.
Ron G.


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## Dave Metzner

Please take note of the exterior window frame in each of the three attached screen grabs....Note the large exterior window sill especially in the shot with the two children sitting on it!......any more questions about how the main view port shape in the hull was determined?

Also as Ron noted when you try to stuff the interior into the shape of the hull this window is one of the results of that exercise especially if you want the controls to be anywhere close to the window as seen in every interior shot of the main control area....


----------



## gimijimi

Ron Gross said:


> Gimijimi,
> I actually did the box art over a year and a half ago, and since there was no Moebius test shot available at that time, I used my own scratch build as a guide. Something was needed to pitch to Kevin Burns, so a box design was prepared with this art, and fortunately, he gave both this piece and the project as a whole a big thumbs up.
> 
> I was confident that the detailing would be reasonably close to the that of the final design, and that did indeed turn out to be the case. This is especially true in the area of the hull contour, as all inflection points and curves match up almost perfectly. When Gary and I were going over design details last year, I asked him to do an overlay of his actual physical scan results against my earlier hand drawn profile to verify this.
> 
> As far as the window area is concerned, there is an issue with reconciling the interior to this contour, while minimizing the resultant elongated distance from the cockpit to the view port. A recessed effect helps in this respect, and is really not that different than what the 4' hero miniature displayed anyway. Therefore, I support the decisions that Gary made with this aspect of the model. I'm sure there will be other minor differences between the art work and the kit, but overall, I'm confident that the cover will be a good representation of what lies inside the box.
> 
> So I guess I'm in Dave's camp on this one. The kit is what it is, and is wide open to customizations, if one so desires. From what I've seen of the test shot, it is a beautiful representation of our beloved space ship.
> Ron G.


"Beloved space ship" it is.

My head is spinning, actually. To have two industry heavy hitters (yourself, and Dave), respond to a post of mine is a real thrill. I am honored gentlemen. Ron, I love your box art. What a transition from the Polar Lights version, in both skill and technique. Eh?

My problem about the window stems from a cast photo taken with everybody (Guy Williams, Mark Goddard, Jonathon Harris, Bill Mumy, Angela Cartwright, Marta Kristen, and June Lockhart -- they even had room for the robot, just not a crane to lift it), standing outside of the studio Jupiter 2, and inside of the front view port. The window well was just that big. Try getting that thing off the ground. The window itself would defeat any areodynamics needed to get through a heavy atmosphere.

I fly, real airplanes, and RC. I fell in love with the Jupiter 2 because of its magnifcient aerodynamic design, and the "hot rod" art direction. Of course, being 10-years old-back then didn't hurt the "wow" factor, either.

I am sure that the design of the model is "fixed" by now. Is just a matter of waiting for December to arrive.

Anyway, having Moebius around is like having Aurora back. Except that I actually get to pull on the coat tails of you guys, and sometimes you actually say: "WHAT????"


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## Dave Metzner

There are supposed to be "crash shutters" that run intracks at the outer edge of the window sill - those shutters woud effectively follow the contour of the hull when closed - and yes they do appear as closed in at least one episode because I have a screen grab somewhere that shows them closed in an interior shot.........


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## m jamieson

"What???" ..was the first thing that popped into my head also!


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## gimijimi

Dave Metzner said:


> Please take note of the exterior window frame in each of the three attached screen grabs....Note the large exterior window sill especially in the shot with the two children sitting on it!......any more questions about how the main view port shape in the hull was determined?
> 
> Also as Ron noted when you try to stuff the interior into the shape of the hull this window is one of the results of that exercise especially if you want the controls to be anywhere close to the window as seen in every interior shot of the main control area....


Dave:

Thank you for your message and the photos. Some one said it best earlier when they pointed out that there were so many versions of the Jupiter 2 to argue about.

My best friend and I each made scratch-built versions back in the 1960s. We started out building one model, but argued so much that we broke off and we each submitted our version to each other. I went with the "popular" version. My best friend went with the "studio" version. My first real lesson in the differences that can result when "artistic vision" come into play.

Thank you for your photos. My best friend would be waving his "studio" model in my face right about now, yelling: "Yeah, Yeah, Yeah."

I go towards the "hero" models, those as seen in the Gemini 12 launch sequences, or the "Derelict" landing and take off sequences, or the "Blast Off Into Space" versions. Lunar Models 16.5" version (still my favorite) is close (I modified it). The Icons model (whose measurements were taken directly from the 4-foot hero version), is "very" close. I was captivated by that article. Enthralled.

I modified my Polar Lights model to look more like these in-flight versions.

Up until today, I liked evrything about the Moebius version a lot. There interior is a thing of beauty. However, the full frontal shot I saw today was a shock. Like, oh no, they've finally gone and screwed it up. I admit it. I've been holding my breath on this model. There's so much wrapped up in it. But, like you said: the kit can be modified.

I don't necessarily buy the instrument arrangement argument. You are only really shifting the windows forward. Everything else - the computer tie-in panels, the flight control and instrument panels, the chairs - follows.

At one time, there were a set of blueprints "out there" that attempted to shift the manned areas off-center and forward of the center-line (dome), so as to make room for two decks, and room for both the Chariot and Pod. In these set of "blues" the ladder actually went into a false ceiling that housed instruments, antenna storage and service compartments, all inside a small crawspace. The Lunar Models interior actually came with a false ceiling to complete the upper deck interior. It was an interesting attempt at solving the Irwin Allen "Space / Time" connumdrum (god bless Irwin).

It also shifted the lower deck flight control compartment forward so that there wasn't so big of a window well and un-used space. The design knocked the crap out of the bathroom design, but not by much. And their design actually had a bathroom on the upper deck. Sweet.

Anyway, thanks for the message. I'll feel A LOT BETTER in December when the kit arrives. Delivery is still set for December . . . right?

Take care. Kindest regards. Respectfully yours. (Got that: RESPECT)?


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## gimijimi

Dave Metzner said:


> There are supposed to be "crash shutters" that run intracks at the outer edge of the window sill - those shutters woud effectively follow the contour of the hull when closed - and yes they do appear as closed in at least one episode because I have a screen grab somewhere that shows them closed in an interior shot.........


Yeah, but the crash shutters have to run on something, run along and against something. Something has to support the crash shutters. They can't just be hanging out there in a void. Its just that somebody who was making the "hero" models had these questions of mechanics, physics, and flight configuration through heavy atmosphere handled back then. I doubt that it was Irwin Allen (but boy, wouldn't be ironic if he had been the designer.)


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## John P

Granted those windows aren't exactly airflow-friendly, but you know the old aeronautical engineering expression - "Give me enough power..."


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## Robert Hargrave

I liked the picture of Will and Penny sitting in front of the window and the framing lumber for the set visible in the roof bubble hole behind John and mother M.


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## DaDragon

*To each, his own.*



Dave Metzner said:


> Bryan Design by committe is just another description for chaos....


It sure is - the camel is a horse designed by a committee!!! :freak:




Dave Metzner said:


> Trust me most of these kits will built right out of the box, they will be be closed up when the builder is done..
> Most builders will finish the model put it on a shelf somewhere and then rip the shrink wrap off the next kit that they want to build..


Ooooh; so harsh, but so true! 

The kit looks pretty awesome and is a tribute to Moebius' skills. :thumbsup:



Dave Metzner said:


> I also expect that the advanced builders will be able to figure out ways to build what they want out of this kit without many big problems..
> I know that there will be an abundance of aftermarket goodies available for the kit as well, for those who want to dress the kit up.


Soooooo true! :tongue:


Graham.


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## Dar

gimijimi said:


> "Beloved space ship" it is.
> My problem about the window stems from a cast photo taken with everybody (Guy Williams, Mark Goddard, Jonathon Harris, Bill Mumy, Angela Cartwright, Marta Kristen, and June Lockhart -- they even had room for the robot, just not a crane to lift it), standing outside of the studio Jupiter 2, and inside of the front view port. The window well was just that big. Try getting that thing off the ground. The window itself would defeat any areodynamics needed to get through a heavy atmosphere.



I think the window ledge on this model is fine. The Moebius is taking elements from all the elements that represented the J2 on the show as you already know of course. The ship had really no logic to it to start with so i wouldnt worry about the window not being flush. This wasnt supposed to be a representation of the filming minature alone of course. The model seems very customizable, im sure one would not have problems bringing the window flush with the hull. I personally think it looks better recessed.:thumbsup: I always liked the widnow ledge. Cant wait to see the dioramas this model is going to produce.


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## Richard Baker

I love the Irwin Allen Crash Shutters- one of the universal designs which seem to end up on all of his craft.

.


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## John P

looking at the closeups of the set windshield - wow, those skinny little frames sure don't look like they'd hold with one atmosphere inside and space outside! :lol:


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## m jamieson

Henry Ford said "If I had asked my customers what they wanted..they would have asked for a faster horse!"

Whenever you see flush windows in the series it is the re-used Gemini 12 shots. The window ledge design was very convenient so that the crew had a place to set their drinks.


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## m jamieson

Big picture windows are pure television and film Sci-fi...besides they were supposed to be asleep for five years (99 in the pilot) who was looking out the windows?


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## djnick66

I have a question about the design of the kit parts... does the back of the landing gear legs (which would be flush with the outside of the main hull) actually match the shape of the landing gear cut outs in the hull itself? I know the kit parts do not operate, but it would be much easier for someone to make them operate if the gear would fit as if it could fold up. I don't think (hope) anyone else asked this.


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## toyroy

m jamieson said:


> ...The window ledge design was very convenient so that the crew had a place to set their drinks.


:lol: With some cushions, it'd make a nice couch for the family to watch big-screen TV.


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## Dave Metzner

The assembled landing gear will kinda sorta fit in the landing gear wells......Making the gear work will be a real challenge and making it work with the interior in place will be a job for Houdini.....


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## jbond

I doubt the people who built the miniatures "solved" any problems of physics or aerodynamics other than a.) making the miniatures look good on film and b.) make them operable for the purposes of filming. Allen wanted all his vehicles to have large windows in front to tie the miniature visuals in with the standing sets and give viewers a sense of where the characters were when they were viewing miniature shots--dramatic considerations were the PRIMARY consideration when designing and building these vehicles and clearly the windows on the J2, Seaview and Flying Sub represent major practical problems for any "real" vehicle designed to operate the way they did.


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## djnick66

Dave Metzner said:


> The assembled landing gear will kinda sorta fit in the landing gear wells......Making the gear work will be a real challenge and making it work with the interior in place will be a job for Houdini.....


Thats a huge disappointment...


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## gimijimi

Dave Metzner said:


> The assembled landing gear will kinda sorta fit in the landing gear wells......Making the gear work will be a real challenge and making it work with the interior in place will be a job for Houdini.....


"Kinda, sorta" ?

Let's go back to the window ledge . . . and step off.

Let me get this straight. No working hatches. No working landing gear. And an excuse that the aftermarket or time for a "model assembler" to suddenly become a "model builder" will fix any problems this kit may have.

As Major West would have said: These are the kind of excuses "that wouldn't have gotten me out of Sunday Chapel."

Everybody knows that "direct from the factory" means "that's the way it is."

"Kinda, sorta" ?

I'm in the process of tearing my Moebius Flying Sub apart (a magnificient piece of plastic), to install the VoodooFX lighting unit and the photo-etch contol panels with the decal set by ParaGrapFix. It's job, man! And don't let anybody tell you otherwise.


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## SJF

Thanks very much for the sneak peeks at the model, Dave. They're much appreciated. It looks marvelous and I can't wait to get it.

My apologies in advance if this has been asked before (I've tried looking, but this thread is so...huge!), but what's the scale of the ship? 1/32?

Sean


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## Dar

gimijimi said:


> "Kinda, sorta" ?
> 
> Let's go back to the window ledge . . . and step off.
> 
> Let me get this straight. No working hatches. No working landing gear. And an excuse that the aftermarket or time for a "model assembler" to suddenly become a "model builder" will fix any problems this kit may have.


I dont see any problems with the kit. This will be the most detailed of any J2 kit EVER. Again this was not meant to be a movie prop. It is an all encompassing representation. If we got all the things you listed we would be paying 2 or 3 times the price. Far as Im concerned this model is going to be a nice display piece not a toy to be played with. So no need for working hatches, or landing gear. Of course all those things can be placed in there easily yourself or with aftermarket pieces. No big deal really.


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## Paulbo

I guess I don't understand some of the recent posts. Frank, Dave, and Gary have taken on a daunting task of trying to reconcile a 4' diameter model with a full sized set that have nothing in common except for the fact that they're both kinda round. They could have just said "hang it, let's duplicate the miniature and ignore the set", resulting in a kit that just has the scrim mounted behind the windows and no real interior.

Everyone knows that option would go over like a lead balloon because the windows are so huge they require an accurate interior.

Instead, they went the route of creating a kit that includes the interior. This means having to make several decisions to fit that interior into the profile of the hull. 

As for working landing gear, to make them operate like the ones on the original miniature means losing the interior pure and simple. And if the gear isn't operable, what's the point of making sure they can fit within the gear wells?


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## Ductapeforever

gimijimi said:


> "Kinda, sorta" ?
> 
> Let's go back to the window ledge . . . and step off.
> 
> Let me get this straight. No working hatches. No working landing gear. And an excuse that the aftermarket or time for a "model assembler" to suddenly become a "model builder" will fix any problems this kit may have.
> 
> As Major West would have said: These are the kind of excuses "that wouldn't have gotten me out of Sunday Chapel."
> 
> Everybody knows that "direct from the factory" means "that's the way it is."
> 
> "Kinda, sorta" ?
> 
> I'm in the process of tearing my Moebius Flying Sub apart (a magnificient piece of plastic), to install the VoodooFX lighting unit and the photo-etch contol panels with the decal set by ParaGrapFix. It's job, man! And don't let anybody tell you otherwise.


This is an example of the kind of idiotic expectations that will cause Moebius to rethink producing kits of any kind. What do you want man, a model or a toy? Go visit Toys R Us. God, this really steams my giblets!


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## Dar

Paulbo said:


> I guess I don't understand some of the recent posts. Frank, Dave, and Gary have taken on a daunting task of trying to reconcile a 4' diameter model with a full sized set that have nothing in common except for the fact that they're both kinda round. They could have just said "hang it, let's duplicate the miniature and ignore the set", resulting in a kit that just has the scrim mounted behind the windows and no real interior.
> 
> Everyone knows that option would go over like a lead balloon because the windows are so huge they require an accurate interior.
> 
> Instead, they went the route of creating a kit that includes the interior. This means having to make several decisions to fit that interior into the profile of the hull.
> 
> As for working landing gear, to make them operate like the ones on the original miniature means losing the interior pure and simple. And if the gear isn't operable, what's the point of making sure they can fit within the gear wells?





Agreed. If someone really wants working landing gear or hatches etc. they can put them in there. Really Im surprised that some want more. This kit is under $100.(SOme sites have it for the $80+ range) What we are getting is a bounty of goodies for our paltry eight $10 bills.:thumbsup:


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## Richard Baker

Anything which is not included in this kit will be having Aftermarket things developed. The Flying Sub has been out for how long and new stuff is still being released for it.

I like the Jupiter 2 kit Moebius has developed- it is (as mentioned above) an incredible job of getting all the different filming references to work together.

.


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## gimijimi

*More test shot discussions*



Dave Metzner said:


> Woof, the Landing gear legs telescopuing sections.have been addressed and will be revised .
> There is no boss around the fusion core opening. I don't think that there is such a boss on the actual miiatures. Trust me the fusion core with extended fins fits just fine and looks great!
> 
> So Roy, You didn't like my answer above and you had to come down here to complain about it.
> No the sofit and the interior don't even touch the upper hull, they do not brace anything they simply sit on top of the landing gear wells in the lower hull and the whole thing is covered by the upper hull.
> The design is done the modifications sent to the factory the window for making chages is closed - so grab the kit when it hits the store shelves - build it when you get it and please quit trying to re-design it for me!
> 
> And you wonder why I close threads!?
> 
> I'm sure that those who want to find a way to remove the upper hull will figure something out...
> 
> Dave


Dave:

Don't close your thread yet.

I think what is being addressed here is the honest need for the model builder to be able to gain repeated access to view the wonderful interior that has been added to this kit . . . over and over and over, again. The word missing is "ease" of access.

At present, the upper and lower halves join along the horizontal plane, a separation that runs exactly across (and through) the outer most edge of the saucer.

Why not do what the Japanese do in these cases, and move the horizontal plane down about an eighth of an inch, and create a "lip" inside and around the outer rim of the saucer that the lower section can be stuck inside of; or that the upper section can rest on top of?

I would imagine that the tooling costs for a connecting rim are the same whether its directly along the horizontal plane dividing the outer most edges of the saucer in half (and thus rounding and distorting them direct from the factory), or moved down an eighth of inch, where the owner can simply "pop" the two sections apart anytime, without disturbing the integrity of the appearance of sharp outer edges of the saucer.


----------



## Dave Metzner

Has anybody out there REALLY looked at how the landing gear of Jupiter 2 was supposed to actually work??? and then tried to decide how to reduce it to styrene parts?...

(I see at least FOUR hinges along with a telescoping cylinder with a sliding anchor in the top of the gear well and lat but not least a sliding gear door to cover the landing gear foot)

Each landing gear leg as it is is now consists 7 parts.. and those seven parts produce a reasonably robust landing gear leg. AND the landing gear when installed in the model do support the weight of the completed model quite nicely!
In order to make it work anything like the prototype would work and IF you can find the space for the opperating components under the floor of the interior that design will require at a MINIMUM 15 to 18 parts and once you got those parts together you'd have a very fragile and unstable and likely out of scale gear leg that is not likely to support the weight of the finished model 
OH Yeah I almost forgot -by the way if you screw up and get a little glue where it's not supposed to be the whole damned thing wont work anyway!
That new design with all thos new part we're going to add effectively more than doubles the tooling cost for those components and it still doesn't address the issue of the sliding door to cover the foot of the retracted gear leg - so add a couple more parts to your tooling costs for that feature..
Now the selling price of the finished kit goes up and the buildability of the finished product goes down..Not my idea of success!

I know that some out there think that they hav better iideas. I have actually done this for a while, and I do think about some of this stuff before I decide not to do it!

I do hope that you all are getting something good out of this because I am not.
I don't intend to go thru this again anytime soon so I hope you'll understand if this kind of information is not fortcomming on our next big project.


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## Ductapeforever

A little bit of constructive criticism. Unrealistic demands for features that would add $$$$$$$$$$ to the cost of this or any other future kit, or asking the manufacturers to "do the work you are supposed to be able to do as modelers" will earn us a moritorium on future kit details. Moebius, unlike any other manufacturer shares this information with us to help get us excited about their products ,not have armchair designers do their jobs for them. They give us kits we want with quality and service second to none, at a reasonable price with as many features and details as practicle . A great value compared to some garage kit developers who would incidentally charge three times as much for a model like it , ONLY SMALLER, AND NOT AS DETAILED! When walking on egg shells,...DON'T HOP! I would take heed gentlemen, think very carefully before you post. THE BELL TOLLS FOR THEE!


----------



## Dar

Dave Metzner said:


> Has anybody out there REALLY looked at how the landing gear of Jupiter 2 was supposed to actually work???and then tried to decide how to reduce it to styrene parts?...
> Each landing gear leg as it is is now consists 7 parts.. and those seven parts produce a reasonably robust landing gear leg. AND the landing gear when installed in the model do support the weight of the completed model quite nicely!
> In order to make it work anything like the prototype would work and IF you can find the space for the opperating components under the floor of the interior that design will require a MINIMUM of 15 to 18 parts and once you got those parts together you'd have a very fragile and unstable and likely out of scale gear leg that is not likely to support the weight of the finished model
> That effectively more than doubles the tooling cost for those components and it still doesn't address the issue of the sliding door to cover the foot of the retracted gear leg add a couple more parts to your tooling costs for that feature..
> Now the selling price of the finished kit goes up and the buildability of the finished product goes down..
> 
> I suspect that some of you think that I'm not the brightest light bulb on the christmas tree...but I have actually done this for a while, and I do think about some of this stuff before I decide not to do it!
> 
> I do hope that you all are getting something good out of this because I am not.
> I don't intend to go thru this again anytime soon so I hope you'll understand if this kind of information is not fortcomming on our next big project.



I think most do get that.(read above) There are a few that dont though.:lol::lol: I dont think there is anything wrong with some new people asking if something is coming with the kit even if it has been answered several times. BUT when they start becoming critical of what it doesnt come with is then it bugs even me and Im usually a very understanding person.:lol:


I guess the bottom line is, if you dont like what the kit is coming with, fine, dont purchase it. But to ask WHY at this stage of the game is kinda useless and unproductive. I mean really it doesnt take an expert to know why the kit isnt coming with everything plus the kitchen sink.:lol:


----------



## spindrift

I think it has been made clear previously that the kit is DONE in tooling stage and is a just about a finished product. Can't be re-engineered, cobbled, stuck on or refitted at this point! Geezz just be happy we have this baby coming and be happy! You say nitpicking is all part of it- fine. Just fix whatever you see needs fixing when you build the kit. NO- it does not take off and land by itself. Pity, you know. 
I think Dave and Frank appreciate your intense interest in their product but be careful about crossing the "line" and crab about a flawed product coming out. It is as accurate as it can be by scale and toooling $$$, consider that. Limitations are imposed on EVERYTHING in "real life", why not a model?
Gary Y.:wave:


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## spindrift

Dave , you are right. Don't let a few voices ruin the audience that makes up 90% of this board. The kit will be fantastic, far more than anyone could have expected in this SIZE and price point!
It is a great great thing you clue us in on a kit as you develop it- and allow the designers to explain things and give us photos. Almost unheard of in this industry. Keep it going- I think it just helps you guys out but those few who moan and complain will buy them anyhow and still continue to voice displeasure. A fact but inescapable.
They should start their own model company and see reality. Only thing I can think of to silence the extreme drama they give!
Gary Y.:wave:


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## gimijimi

Ductapeforever said:


> This is an example of the kind of idiotic expectations that will cause Moebius to rethink producing kits of any kind. What do you want man, a model or a toy? Go visit Toys R Us. God, this really steams my giblets!



Hey . . . watch your language. "Idiotic"? We're talking to each other here; not at each other.

If Moebius' skin was as this thin as you would like us to believe, then they wouldn't have even done what was so badly needed . . . produce a real Seaview, the Flying Sub, a REAL Chariot, a REAL SPACE POD.

Do they need to hear about it? You bet. A+ doesn't even touch what Moebius has accomplished . . . so far.

A toy? Toys? You're definition of play must be something different. And that's fine. I took my Moebius Seaview and installed David Merriman's RC conversion, because when I was growing up I don't know anybody who didn't want to be Admiral Harriman Nelson with his own nuclear powered submarine Seaview. But, that's me.

"The only thing that separates men from boys is the price of the their toys."

And that's why there's so much talk going on here about the Jupiter 2. Frank Winspur sees a market (god bless him).

Please don't get me wrong. I think Moebius' Jupiter 2 is the best thing since Lost in Space first aired. But I've paid my dues here. I've had to suffer through no Jupiter 2 model, then Lunar Models "horror in the box", and the kinda sorta misses that were the Polar Lights effort (god bless them, but there it is), and others. Over 40-years of waiting, hoping. Probably just like you.

Besides, by this time the design is probably "closed." The model is probably being pressed by the thousands even as you and I talk about it. Am I right, Dave?

Wishing you all the best.


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## gojira61

*...sigh...*

It would seem that some folks have forgotten what $100 used to get you from Lunar Models. 

I stood in front of this model at the IPMS show, frankly if Moebius had asked $200 for I would have paid it and yes, it's that nice when you see it in person.


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## JAT

m jamieson said:


> Big picture windows are pure television and film Sci-fi...besides they were supposed to be asleep for five years (99 in the pilot) who was looking out the windows?


Wasn't the ship also going to function as a base camp/home on the new world? It would be pretty dark and dismal without some light filtering in, just like my cell.


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## gimijimi

Dave Metzner said:


> Has anybody out there REALLY looked at how the landing gear of Jupiter 2 was supposed to actually work??? and then tried to decide how to reduce it to styrene parts?...
> 
> (I see at least FOUR hinges along with a telescoping cylinder with a sliding anchor in the top of the gear well and lat but not least a sliding gear door to cover the landing gear foot)
> 
> Each landing gear leg as it is is now consists 7 parts.. and those seven parts produce a reasonably robust landing gear leg. AND the landing gear when installed in the model do support the weight of the completed model quite nicely!
> In order to make it work anything like the prototype would work and IF you can find the space for the opperating components under the floor of the interior that design will require at a MINIMUM 15 to 18 parts and once you got those parts together you'd have a very fragile and unstable and likely out of scale gear leg that is not likely to support the weight of the finished model
> OH Yeah I almost forgot -by the way if you screw up and get a little glue where it's not supposed to be the whole damned thing wont work anyway!
> That new design with all thos new part we're going to add effectively more than doubles the tooling cost for those components and it still doesn't address the issue of the sliding door to cover the foot of the retracted gear leg - so add a couple more parts to your tooling costs for that feature..
> Now the selling price of the finished kit goes up and the buildability of the finished product goes down..Not my idea of success!
> 
> I know that some out there think that they hav better iideas. I have actually done this for a while, and I do think about some of this stuff before I decide not to do it!
> 
> I do hope that you all are getting something good out of this because I am not.
> I don't intend to go thru this again anytime soon so I hope you'll understand if this kind of information is not fortcomming on our next big project.


Yes. I know. I bought the aftermarket retractable landing gear for the Lunar Models Jupiter 2. In this case aftermarket solved nothing.

But neither did the solid bricks of plastic that Polar Lights called "landing gear."

Common Dave. As you have so often said to us: Its Frank's kitchen. Not yours.

We're all here because its you, man.

The last thing we should have to hear is: "NO SOUP FOR YOU!"


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## Steve H

Dave Metzner said:


> There are supposed to be "crash shutters" that run intracks at the outer edge of the window sill - those shutters woud effectively follow the contour of the hull when closed - and yes they do appear as closed in at least one episode because I have a screen grab somewhere that shows them closed in an interior shot.........


Closing the crash shutters was an easy way to cut costs by not needing process shots or lit and decorated soundstage outside of the interior. Show something for one shot, close the shutters and for all the other scenes filmed, cheaper. 

Yeah, the kerfulffle about making the landing gear of the Moebius J2 practical, I don't get it either. My earlier comment about replacing the strut with brass tube was only in regards to concerns about strength over handling to remove the top on a regular basis, I'm sure the kit part is just fine for 'as intended' use. But trying to make that thing RETRACT without ripping out the interior? I just can't see it!

Actually, not totally true. piano hinge at the wide point, ball hinge at the foot, unplug the support and fold it down against the stairs, that might work but practical as in working like the filming model or a 'real' J2? Oh no, no, surely not with the interior in place.

I may have expressed some comments that may have been taken as critical, but at least I'm RATIONAL


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## Ductapeforever

Steve H said:


> I may have expressed some comments that may have been taken as critical, but at least I'm RATIONAL


I have never been accused of 'flaming' ,my comments stand on their merits. as does Steve's.:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## Seaview

I have only 2 complaints that NOBODY could possibly resolve;
1) It's not December yet!
2) When December DOES get here, it'll be the dead of winter and I won't be able to use my rattle can testor's paints outdoors! WAHHHH!!!!!!! 
However, I will happily bide my time waiting for the spring thaw by hand painting all of the flight decks' fine details! :hat:


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## Dave Metzner

I really do think that it's time.....
I think that all the honest questions about the test shot have been answered.
Time to put a lock on it...


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## Dar

gimijimi said:


> Dave:
> 
> Don't close your thread yet.
> 
> I think what is being addressed here is the honest need for the model builder to be able to gain repeated access to view the wonderful interior that has been added to this kit . . . over and over and over, again. The word missing is "ease" of access.
> 
> At present, the upper and lower halves join along the horizontal plane, a separation that runs exactly across (and through) the outer most edge of the saucer.
> 
> Why not do what the Japanese do in these cases, and move the horizontal plane down about an eighth of an inch, and create a "lip" inside and around the outer rim of the saucer that the lower section can be stuck inside of; or that the upper section can rest on top of?
> 
> I would imagine that the tooling costs for a connecting rim are the same whether its directly along the horizontal plane dividing the outer most edges of the saucer in half (and thus rounding and distorting them direct from the factory), or moved down an eighth of inch, where the owner can simply "pop" the two sections apart anytime, without disturbing the integrity of the appearance of sharp outer edges of the saucer.


Gimijimi, you have just started posting here about the J2 so Im sure you have no idea, BUT all this stuff has been asked since March. As Spindrift said, nothing can be changed, its all in the bag, so your suggestions cannot be considered one bit. The model we are getting is very user friendly and from what I can see is very well engineered for customizers and straight up builders. Just for the sake of Daves sanity, you need to stop making suggestions. That time has passed a good 8 months to a year ago.:lol: No ones trying to be mean but you are just going to risk imposing Daves wraith down upon this thread and I dont want to see that again. I glean way to much info in these threads.

Again I think its ok to ask questions about whats going to be on the model, or your ideas for custom builds,:thumbsup: but complaining or making suggestions is not really constructive to the discussions.


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## JAT

Anyone have any plans to reinforce the hull? I mention this because i believe I read somewhere that the hull is not that strong ( I think in reference to lifting it off repeatedly for "showings"), and because while browsing other HobbyTalk forums I stumbled across a video regarding other famous sci-fi model ships. It was mentioned that the shells were flimsy and so reinforced with many many pop sickle sticks, making for a very rigid shell/hull. Don't think that would be the answer here, but has anyone given this any thought?


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## Y3a

add a ring inside the hull around the edge to make the hull rigid.


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## toyroy

JAT said:


> Anyone have any plans to reinforce the hull? I mention this because i believe I read somewhere that the hull is not that strong ( I think in reference to lifting it off repeatedly for "showings")...


The upper hull is plenty strong, except around the edge. But the photo was just of the first test shot, and I'd be surprised if the actual kit hull _wasn't_ fixed. If, for whatever reason, the model comes as in the pic, Y3a's ring fix is one way to go.


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## gareee

Something to consider: The weight might already be maxed for the landing legs.. any additional weight might end up buckling them without additional support of some kind.

(Maybe replace the landing struts with metal alternatives?)


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## JAT

Thanks to all. Agreed that beefing up the landing supports might be a good idea, and really like the whole pulsating lighting effect thing ( was that supposed to be indicative of power pulsing through the ship? ). I guess I'll have to wait until I have the kit in my hands to determine what's actually going to be necessary. Since I'm planning to go somewhat far afield with my build, something possibly heretical, the support ring concept lends itself nicely to the scheme of things.


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## RSN

JAT said:


> Thanks to all. Agreed that beefing up the landing supports might be a good idea, and really like the whole pulsating lighting effect thing ( was that supposed to be indicative of power pulsing through the ship? ). I guess I'll have to wait until I have the kit in my hands to determine what's actually going to be necessary. Since I'm planning to go somewhat far afield with my build, something possibly heretical, the support ring concept lends itself nicely to the scheme of things.


I may be off on my understanding, (Dave, if you are watching.), but I believe the strength of the legs to support the model rests on the upper hull being glued in place. The struts are glued into the wells, the upper floor rests on the top of the wells, the upper floor is held down in place by the gluing of the upper hull in place. This transfers the weight throughout the ship. Replacing the plastic struts with metal would not necessarily correct this. Not having seen the kit in person, this is just speculation from what I have pieced together form test shot photos.


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## m jamieson

RSN said:


> I may be off on my understanding, (Dave, if you are watching.), but I believe the strength of the legs to support the model rests on the upper hull being glued in place. The struts are glued into the wells, the upper floor rests on the top of the wells, the upper floor is held down in place by the gluing of the upper hull in place. This transfers the weight throughout the ship. Replacing the plastic struts with metal would not necessarily correct this. Not having seen the kit in person, this is just speculation from what I have pieced together form test shot photos.


Why lose sleep over this? It's one of those bridges to cross when you come to it after you buy the kit. It doesn't appear to need the upper hull glued on to distribute weight loads nor does it seem logical..but I don't want to insult the designers by second guessing their engineering and create imagined problems without having it sitting in front of me. If it turns out to have a support issue, well then I would solve it with some type of fix. Until then I will trust Moebius did their homework!


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## RSN

m jamieson said:


> Why lose sleep over this? It's one of those bridges to cross when you come to it after you buy the kit. It doesn't appear to need the upper hull glued on to distribute weight loads nor does it seem logical..but I don't want to insult the designers by second guessing their engineering and create imagined problems without having it sitting in front of me. If it turns out to have a support issue, well then I would solve it with some type of fix. Until then I will trust Moebius did their homework!


My point exactly! Without the kit, all the speculation about sturdiness is silly.


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## Dave Metzner

The gear legs lock into the lower hull in a very robust way. If you add ten pounds of additional stuff to the model you may need to consider doing something to re-enforce the landing gear, (I can't imagine adding that much weight but I'm sure somebody will find a way!)
The interior is entirely built on the floor . .
The floor can be glued in place in the lower hull - or not if it suits you.
The upper hull is not supported by or attached to the interior in any way. As a matter of fact the upper hull does not touch the interior when the model is completely assembled. The upper hull and lower hull locators are there to assure a good joint between the upper and lower hull and assure that the overall shape of the finished model is correct. Because an 18 inch diameter saucers of relatively thin styrene are not very rigid - even with re-enforcing ribs the lower hull may not retain its shape perfectly.

Now my advice to all of you engineers out there who are chomping at the bit to improve this model is that you may want to wait until you have the kit in hand, because this is as far as I'm going with this game of twenty questions -"what if you did this? - What if you did that"

Dave


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## RSN

Dave Metzner said:


> The gear legs lock into the lower hull in a very robust way. If you add ten pounds of additional stuff to the model you may need to consider doing something to re-enforce the landing gear, (I can't imagine adding that much weight but I'm sure somebody will find a way!)
> The interior is entirely built on the floor . .
> The floor can be glued in place in the lower hull - or not if it suits you.
> The upper hull is not supported by or attached to the interior in any way. As a matter of fact the upper hull does not touch the interior when the model is completely assembled. The upper hull and lower hull locators are there to assure a good joint between the upper and lower hull and assure that the overall shape of the finished model is correct. Because an 18 inch diameter saucers of relatively thin styrene are not very rigid - even with re-enforcing ribs the lower hull may not retain its shape perfectly.
> 
> Now my advice to all of you engineers out there who are chomping at the bit to improve this model is that you may want to wait until you have the kit in hand, because this is as far as I'm going with this game of twenty questions -"what if you did this? - What if you did that"
> 
> Dave


There goes my theory! Thanks Dave, that gives me a better understanding of how you engineered things. That was all I was wondering and or speculating about.


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## j2man

Very well put Dave. All the questions have probably led to tight lips on future releases. December come quicker.........Glad the lower half controls all of the kit.......My lunar (with flashing wall beams) had a hard time standing on the legs without sealing the upper half. Now repairs are a bugger. lol


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## JAT

Dave Metzner said:


> The gear legs lock into the lower hull in a very robust way. If you add ten pounds of additional stuff to the model you may need to consider doing something to re-enforce the landing gear, (I can't imagine adding that much weight but I'm sure somebody will find a way!)
> The interior is entirely built on the floor . .
> The floor can be glued in place in the lower hull - or not if it suits you.
> The upper hull is not supported by or attached to the interior in any way. As a matter of fact the upper hull does not touch the interior when the model is completely assembled. The upper hull and lower hull locators are there to assure a good joint between the upper and lower hull and assure that the overall shape of the finished model is correct. Because an 18 inch diameter saucers of relatively thin styrene are not very rigid - even with re-enforcing ribs the lower hull may not retain its shape perfectly.
> 
> Now my advice to all of you engineers out there who are chomping at the bit to improve this model is that you may want to wait until you have the kit in hand, because this is as far as I'm going with this game of twenty questions -"what if you did this? - What if you did that"
> 
> Dave


Thanks, Dave. I am in no way intending to try to improve on what you have come up with, as it's size and attention to detailed are, I think, unsurpassed and brilliantly executed ( and really REALLY long awaited ). And I am very greatful for your efforts. As I mentioned, I have a very different direction I wish to go with the ship, and so this extra info is very helpful and useful regarding it's sturdiness and construction. Thank you again.


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## toyroy

Y3a said:


> WHY did I start this thread? The landing gear seems to be a sticking point for some. Also, since I built a working gear system for my 2 foot Lunar Models J2, and have designed a system for my 4 foot hull, I thought I might share my experience.
> 
> The gear must do the following:
> 1. raise and lower itself with all legs and those footpad doors all working simultaneously.
> 2.footpads may pivot, but NOT swivel.
> 3. support the model without slipping or gear slowly collapsing.
> 4. footpad doors must drop into place and match the hull contour.
> 
> 
> My solution for the 4 foot model is to power the legs and footpad doors with a jackshaft system and steel cables to pull the gear down and the pad doors out of the way. When no power is applied, the gear won't move. The whole system doesn't take lots of space and is fairly light weight.
> 
> The 18" model will be built with a small jackshaft system very much like the 4 footers'.





Dave Metzner said:


> That's neat but it doesn't operate as the prototype of the full sized ship would operate -It DOES NOT fit int the landing gear wells of the model
> In order for it to work as you have illustrated it there can be no interior as provided in the moebius model kit.
> So you seem to miss my point entirely which is that operating landing gear are not practical as a feature of the model kit that Moebius will be producing...


I made the "illustration" in question during discussions of the hero gear mechanics. It has little or nothing to do with Mark's model gears. If you hadn't locked the thread so fast, one of us could've told you that.


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## Dave Metzner

ok roy whatever!
You and y3a design whatever you want for the retracting landing gear in your models of Jupiter 2... 
I look forward to seeing the photos when you get it done...


Dave


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## Steve H

Guys, guys guys, what is going ON now?

I can dig Dave getting ticked at me because I come across as a know-it-all SOB (and I don't know it all, but I DO know some stuff! and yes, well aware that a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.  ) but what is all this...rancor and needling over the landing gear?!

For example, I noted in that drawing the footpad takes a rather impossible bend when the leg tucks up into the hull. Obviously it has to do that to clear the door AND fit under the floor, but the actual mechanicals don't work that way, from what I could see. (note, not an engineer)

Now, since I think I have a LITTLE wiggle room to say something here, if this were a real ship I suspect the landing gear would be much more complicated, with folding oleo struts and tubing, even maybe the steps folding flat to reduce the space needed in the gear well, and make room for the support strut. Take a look at the folding steps on a Gulfstream, or maybe even the rear stairs on a 727.

But for gosh sakes let's get past 'expectation of privilege' on this and go back to 'we're in an amazing place to see and discuss this', ok? Because I don't want Dave to get into the habit of closing threads just on general principles.


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## toyroy

Steve H said:


> ...I noted in that drawing the footpad takes a rather impossible bend when the leg tucks up into the hull. Obviously it has to do that to clear the door AND fit under the floor, but the actual mechanicals don't work that way, from what I could see...


How _do_ they work?


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## John P

With economy the way it is, they're lucky if they DO work.


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## woof359

hmmmmmmmmmmmmm. the upper floor deck sit below the rim of the hull. so if the legs are up well they fit? not sure where the Moebius kit floor sits yet. in the show the outer hull door was flush when they did a space walk, but the crash site you can see them walking up a slight incline.


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## Steve H

toyroy said:


> How _do_ they work?


For a 'real' J2, it would take someone much, much more knowledgeable than me to engineer it, but I don't think it would be quite as complex as the retraction of the landing gear of the XB-70 or the B-58.

For the filming model, since there was no interior, I doubt the footpad had much travel on its hinge point, and it's possible the support strut was fixed (not hinged) to the footpad, not the ball joint we would all assume (to allow the footpad to sit on variable ground and adjust)

All it had to do is when the cover opened, come down. I'm not even sure it was designed to retract, they could have easily just reversed the film. But again, time plays tricks on my memory and I have yet to grab those darn DVD sets. 

But from a purely practical standpoint, with the deck where it is within the hull, the ONLY way I see that gear retracting within that fixed available volume is if the bottom of the footpad is left exposed

Heck, if you look at the design, it's clearly planned only for landing on prepared surfaces, if the ground is too rough or uneven that's gonna give you a really bad day.

More I think about it, more I think there was some influence from the rear stair on a 727 as well as from Forbidden Planet. I'm talking myself into believing that IA *wanted* just the leg, but practical considerations demanded that support strut


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## bert model maker

I have a question, can the legs be made to be "removable" and the leg wells covered by a simularly shaped cover ? That way, you can have both a landed & inflight version.


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## Steve H

bert model maker said:


> I have a question, can the legs be made to be "removable" and the leg wells covered by a simularly shaped cover ? That way, you can have both a landed & inflight version.


That is one of the big questions, and it seems to generate ire.

If this was a kit from Fine Molds or Hasegawa, the answer would be 'yes' and there would be strong pins and polycaps, while the covers themselves would have long pins to fit into the holes. problem is, to make them flush with the hull, how do you have some kind of tab or slot (that breaks the look) to REMOVE those covers?

But, that's what the Japanese would do. I *suspect* from other comments, with the Moebius kit it's going to be either/or, I don't think they've included a second set of covers. One could make them from sheet plastic of course. It's just a question how strong those 'main leg' pins, the ones connecting to the hull are. 

(and for god's sake DON'T ASK IF THEY CAN INCLUDE EXTRA COVERS because, ya know, tool is locked down, what it is, is what it is, etc. hey, I'm getting good at this, can I work for Moebius?  )


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## Ductapeforever

Someone get Dave some blood pressure pills. This isn't going to be pretty.


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## Dave Metzner

Steve do you have ANY NOTION regarding the size of Moebius Models in relation to Hasegawa or Fine Molds?
If you had any notion then you wouldn't be making such comparisons......
As an operation Moebius has a staff that is a fraction of Hasegawa's

I do wish that you'd spare me you helpful suggestions based on you intimate knowledge of how kits are designed by our competitors..
And just in case you haven't noticed Hasegawa has never offered any landing gear on any model kit in their line that is designed to be removable by the use of Poly caps or any other means..
By the way that applies to Tamiya, Fine Molds and Trumpeter too! ( you see I pay attention to how kits are designed too)

The design of the landing gear attachment in this model was done by our factory. 
The original design of the model NEVER envisioned removable landing gear - 
It did envision landing gear that is sufficiently robust to support a fairly heavy model.

To answer the question....NO the gear is not removable - 
There are a separate set of gear doors for those who wish to build the model without extended landing gear.

The builder will have the choice of building the model with landing gear or without landing gear


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## Y3a

The drawing was a photoshop deal with ToyRoys drawings showing clearances for the footpad. I went back with the PHOTO of a leg from the Hero, and placed the leg over the drawing of same. the footpad IS that far inside the Hero. The footpad door mechanics sicks up over the pad door by about an inch. 

I have a thread down in Science Fiction that has less of a shot of being closed to discuss the gear. 

BTW - I plan to build one without gear - probably with the best job I'll do on an interior. I plan to make one a replica OF THE HERO from the Jupiter 2 Autopsy, showing all the scruffy areas, and positions of the left-overs.


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## Steve H

*stuff*

it's closed, it's open, it's closed,it's open, I'm feeling like a yo-yo here...which, I probably am.

Dave, I wasn't picking on the kit. I wasn't. As you've gradually brought up various points I see much more clearly what the design 'image' is, and it makes sense. I didn't see what I could identify as 'closed' landing gear covers for the stairway part, only the covers that slide over the footpads. 

And IIRC, Fine Molds IS a small company, IIRC from an interview it's like 3 people. Of course it may have grown since they started cranking out Star Wars kits.

And, again IIRC, Hasegawa used polycaps in the landing gear of it's various versions of the Valkyrie 'variable fighter' in aircraft mode, so it could be displayed in flight. 

Y3a, yes, I KNOW the landing gear footpad fits inside the filming model, tucks in right nice. Because it's not having to account for the floor that isn't there, unlike the Moebius kit. That was my point. The drawing doesn't take into account the available volume as it exists. But it DOES work if there's no interior, which I think you've stated you plan to not use to fit your mechanicals in. And that's a groovy thing. I, too, look forward to seeing your efforts! Heck, you'll be done long before I will! 

Now watch, the other thread will open again...


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## Y3a

*stuff*

The feet stick up above the floor in back of the panels/bulkheads... I think..... Just piping in. I've been thinking about a metal bracket that would be glued in in back of the steps on the inside of the gear leg. This would add strength to the legs and give you a metal part to slide a metal pin through for the rear pivot point on the gear. I think a "hydraulic Ram" can be made to be spring loaded. the springs could be adjusted to level the J2. The power cylinder at the bottom has some room for the rod to spring back n forth a bit. The top end of the rod is drilled through so a wire can be threaded through and by pulling on the wire, it pushes the legs down. 
So far the mechanics are close tolerance but light weight. 
I hope to use Henry's Decals if he produces any. I'll paint mine a 50-50 Testors "Steel" and "Bright Silver". This gives a less than bright silver finish thats a little flat. Using very bright light it will look bright silver. Did I mention that these models are painted so the look best on video or photos? I will be using some wire from a small motors armiture to support my Moebius J2, and provide power.


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