# New Model News?



## eradicator178 (Sep 3, 2008)

Have any of the model companies made any announcements about any new kits at Wonder fest??


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

Don't look like it.


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

Polar Lights:
- Re-release of the 1/537 cutaway _Enterprise_
- New 1/1000 Romulan Bird-of-Prey snap kit
- New Resin Batman & Robin figures for 1/25th Batmobile
- New 1/72 Space: 1999 Eagle w/Lab Pod & Boosters

AMT:
-New 1/2500 Cadet Series (DS9 Saratoga, Defiant, Cardassian Galor Class)


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## Zombie_61 (Apr 21, 2004)

Trek Ace said:


> - New 1/1000 Romulan Bird-of-Prey snap kit


This sounds promising, as long as it's an all-new kit and not just a scaled-down version of the inaccurate AMT 1/650-ish kit.


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## robiwon (Oct 20, 2006)

They even lit that little Defiant!


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Trek Ace said:


> Polar Lights:
> - Re-release of the 1/537 cutaway _Enterprise_
> - New 1/1000 Romulan Bird-of-Prey snap kit
> - New Resin Batman & Robin figures for 1/25th Batmobile
> ...


The cutaway is 1/500, I believe.


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## Dr. Brad (Oct 5, 1999)

Looking forward to the 1/1000 Romulan ship....


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## apls (Dec 5, 2005)

I am happy to see the reissue of the cutaway Enterprise. I may get that instead of the massive one out now, it’s too intimidating. This, with aftermarket parts, could be an awesome kit.


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

God.........has to be the worst ever Wonderfest for new model kit news.


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## robiwon (Oct 20, 2006)

There may not have been as many announcements as in years past, but then again, this isn't a Trades Show either. I think what was announced was pretty exciting.


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

robiwon said:


> There may not have been as many announcements as in years past, but then again, this isn't a Trades Show either. I think what was announced was pretty exciting.







But there hasn't been any real announcements. The only things announced have been 1 or 2 smaller new kits, some reissues and some resin items from Polar Lights (which isn't news to me seeing as the R2 group are known for plastic kits not garage kits).


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## Zathros (Dec 21, 2000)

*I guess Frank isn't doing anything more this year besides the 1966 Batman figures, Battlestar Galactica, and the mainstream cars and trucks....disappointing, but at least he put out some better stuff over the years that I always wanted...

Z*


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## spock62 (Aug 13, 2003)

Is the 1/72 Eagle the original kit with added parts or is this an all new kit?


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## robiwon (Oct 20, 2006)

New parts, they're resin.


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

Zathros said:


> *I guess Frank isn't doing anything more this year besides the 1966 Batman figures, Battlestar Galactica, and the mainstream cars and trucks....disappointing, but at least he put out some better stuff over the years that I always wanted...
> 
> Z*


But he still has the Johnny Quest and Space Ghost ships coming out


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## rkoenn (Dec 18, 2007)

I was surprised that there weren't even any manufacturer's sessions. Not Round 2, Pegasus, Moebius (Frank did not attend), or anybody else. Last year Moebius and Round 2 had 1 hour sessions. Cult did have a Moebius table next to his with the Batman buildup and a small flyer to hand out. Moebius did take home 3 Rondos which were all for the Grandpa Munster kit. I usually get to talk with Frank 2 or 3 times a year down here, and buy "damaged" box models really cheap from him, at local contests which is always fun.

Oh, I did see a full up of the new MLV from Pegasus models on their table and it is amazing. To begin with it is huge and has a fully built up interior. They said they are hoping for a release near the end of the year. The model was basically a production model, not a mockup. It is going to be on the high side price wise but when you see it you'll understand why.


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## derric1968 (Jun 13, 2003)

Personally, I'm happy about the small number of announcements. My wallet is particularly pleased. There have been so many models released over the last couple of years that I'm grateful for the reprieve.

It will also be nice to see Moebius and Round 2 actually get caught up with their announcements.

Beside, there's always iHobby in October.


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

At least kits are pretty cheap compared to other hobbies.


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## rkoenn (Dec 18, 2007)

djnick66 said:


> At least kits are pretty cheap compared to other hobbies.


Try high power rocketry. A moderately big engine, i.e. G, H, or J, easily cost $20 to $50 per flight for propellant which is gone once ignited. And some rocketeers will easily spend $200 and much more for a single flight. I've kind of moved away from rocketry partly because of the cost. But I still greatly enjoy going out and watching these guys fly those big rockets. Even Estes engines are easily over $3 a flight and I just looked up a single use Estes composite F which are $25-35 per flight. Rocketry has gotten expensive, particularly compared to plastic models in general.


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## Jafo (Apr 22, 2005)

Jamie at round 2 said they killed BOTH the Thor and Wizard of Oz witch kits because the Superman and Wolverine kits sold so badly. They are going ahead with the alien egg encounter but in resin. Also theres a new Spinosaur kit coming form Pegasus. looks good. . NOT sculpted by Folkes, but he did the paint up.He also did not sculpt the triceratops or T rex but will now do the rest for Pegasus and now has 2 more Dino fish?(sorry I don't know my fishy type dinos that well) he sculpted for Pegasus


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

rkoenn said:


> Try high power rocketry. A moderately big engine, i.e. G, H, or J, easily cost $20 to $50 per flight for propellant which is gone once ignited. And some rocketeers will easily spend $200 and much more for a single flight. I've kind of moved away from rocketry partly because of the cost. But I still greatly enjoy going out and watching these guys fly those big rockets. Even Estes engines are easily over $3 a flight and I just looked up a single use Estes composite F which are $25-35 per flight. Rocketry has gotten expensive, particularly compared to plastic models in general.


I collect and fire World War II weapons. I need a couple more 100 round drum magazines for my Thompson SMG and the 100 round drums run about $600 each. My Maxim 1910 heavy machinegun project will probably run about $5,000 in the end to convert a demilled, ex Finnish capture gun to an operable, semi auto, firing model. 

$40 for a plastic kit is chump change.


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## spindrift (Apr 16, 2005)

SUNGOD said:


> God.........has to be the worst ever Wonderfest for new model kit news.


I know...was there really a Wonderfest manufacturer participation this year..not a good year for us at all!


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## spindrift (Apr 16, 2005)

Jafo said:


> Jamie at round 2 said they killed BOTH the Thor and Wizard of Oz witch kits because the Superman and Wolverine kits sold so badly. They are going ahead with the alien egg encounter but in resin. Also theres a new Spinosaur kit coming form Pegasus. looks good. . NOT sculpted by Folkes, but he did the paint up.He also did not sculpt the triceratops or T rex but will now do the rest for Pegasus and now has 2 more Dino fish?(sorry I don't know my fishy type dinos that well) he sculpted for Pegasus


Mass market figure kits are a bad bad idea...why R2 goes away from the bread and butter of vehicles is beyond me. At least they won't try this again


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## spock62 (Aug 13, 2003)

Jafo said:


> Jamie at round 2 said they killed BOTH the Thor and Wizard of Oz witch kits because the Superman and Wolverine kits sold so badly.


Guess the Batman figure kit is out of the question too.


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

spindrift said:


> I know...was there really a Wonderfest manufacturer participation this year..not a good year for us at all!







I suppose there'll always be lulls but Let's hope it's not a bad sign for the model industry.


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

Jafo said:


> Jamie at round 2 said they killed BOTH the Thor and Wizard of Oz witch kits because the Superman and Wolverine kits sold so badly. They are going ahead with the alien egg encounter but in resin. Also theres a new Spinosaur kit coming form Pegasus. looks good. . NOT sculpted by Folkes, but he did the paint up.He also did not sculpt the triceratops or T rex but will now do the rest for Pegasus and now has 2 more Dino fish?(sorry I don't know my fishy type dinos that well) he sculpted for Pegasus








Surprise, surprise! Thor's cancelled just as I said. Don't know about Superman but the Wolverine sculpt was really good.........what's the matter with people????


I'm surprised that hasn't sold.


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

spindrift said:


> Mass market figure kits are a bad bad idea...why R2 goes away from the bread and butter of vehicles is beyond me. At least they won't try this again









I don't blame them for trying the styrene figure market at all but I wonder if they were expecting too much sales too soon?

Monarchs plastic figure kits 'appear' to be selling well so there must be a market for new figure kits in plastic somewhere.

There again they aren't paying Marvel/Disney whacking great licence fees.


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## rja (Sep 4, 2010)

One of the problems is the loss of local hobby shops. This cuts down impulse, and even planned, buying. Sure I can order it online...when I get around to it...but that may never happen.

Superman is great, and I do need to get one. The Wolverine, well it's an ok kit, but it's the vintage wolverine and just doesn't tickle me. I would rather have had the witch than Wolverine.


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

The problem with figure kits is that they are a niche market. And, within that small niche, are more niches. I didn't buy Superman or Wolverine because, for the most part, I don't do Superhero type figures. And, the Superman kit was just kind of crappy. I do like classic Batman stuff so I will buy the Moebius kits. But, there are many other figure kits I have passed on. 

When I had my shop figures were the HARDEST kits to sell. Even military figure kits were rather sluggish sellers compared to tanks and vehicles. The amount of effort to build and especially paint figures seemed to be an issue. Some people that were interested in the subject of the kit, would rather have bought a pre painted statue type piece.

People forget that, too, back in the figure heyday of the 60s there were not many companies that did a lot of figures, and that even Aurora had a lot of crappy sellers and ultimately seem to have dropped figures all together by the 76-77 line up (not counting Prehistoric Scenes). Revell only had a couple of figures, and you had some odd ones from Pyro or Adams etc. Outside of the universal Monsters I dont think many of the Aurora figures were exactly block busters.


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## Rob P. (Jan 26, 2004)

djnick66 said:


> Outside of the universal Monsters I dont think many of the Aurora figures were exactly block busters.


Which is why I don't understand the slow down in classic monster kits from all except Monarch? The classic monsters are the kits that seem to sell, along with dinosaurs? Monarch seems to be moving models rather well despite the recent Gorgo quality control issue. Moebius seemed to be doing well with there classic monsters, in fact I am still picking up extra kits of their monsters for future ideas. Everyone will have a somewhat differing area of interests, I get that. But classic monsters seem to have the largest shared interest. At least that is how it appears to me. 

Rob


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

Thing is............there's absolutely loads of Superman action figures about and no doubt Wolverine. If R2 was hoping to get loads of kids to buy these 2 kits then I'm not surprised they sold poorly as kids would just go for the ready made action figures.

I suppose they relied on pre sales figures also. How accurate those are I don't know but many people don't pre order things. Maybe a lot of people didn't know about these kits either?


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## ChrisW (Jan 1, 1970)

Remember, Monarch has put out one new kit in...what, 3 years? Lots of pent up demand, and kit builders/collectors appreciate the level of nostalgic Aurora-like detail Scott puts into the kits and packaging.
I remember Dave Metzner talking about the figure kit market, and saying once it leveled off, Polar Lights sold around the same number of figure kits annually, regardless of how many different subjects were on the market at the same time!


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## BatToys (Feb 4, 2002)

What about the resin King Kong kit? I want to buy one so I hope it wasn't canceled.


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## Rob P. (Jan 26, 2004)

SO, once the market "leveled off" was it still profitable? Because for the kit producers it all boils down to business in the end. 

Rob


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

BatToys said:


> What about the resin King Kong kit? I want to buy one so I hope it wasn't canceled.








I've zero interest in a resin Kong kit but I should imagine they'll still produce that seeing as it's infinitely cheaper to produce a resin kit than a styrene kit.


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## Zombie_61 (Apr 21, 2004)

SUNGOD said:


> ...Don't know about Superman but the Wolverine sculpt was really good...


The original sculpt for the Superman kit might have been good, but the kit they produced from it has a lot of soft detail, especially on the face where you _want_ sharp detail.

With regards to producing figure kits, it seems Polar Lights' quality control is hit-and-miss. The Wolverine kit you mentioned appears to have been fairly well received, but once word about the soft detail on the Superman kit spread around the 'Net interest in that kit seemed to die off. Another example is the Wolfman kit that was produced from the Randy Bowen sculpt (the smaller styrene version, that is) in the late 90s. I've chatted with a number of people online who, like me, received a kit that had soft and/or missing detail and gaps between joining parts that rivaled any of the 60s-era Aurora figure kits, and an almost equal number of people who had no such problems with their kits. Clearly there's a problem somewhere in the process, but Polar Lights/Round 2 appears to be either unaware of the problem, or unable to identify and correct it. To be clear, I like the kits produced by Polar Lights/Round 2, but some of them require a _lot_ of extra work to look presentable.


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

Like most companies PL seems to have and A team and a B team and even a D minus team. I can't believe the same people did Wolverine AND Superman. Likewise, the Moebius Invisible Man is much much better than the mediocre Black Widow and original Frankenstein sculpts.


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## Jafo (Apr 22, 2005)

I think the Batman figure is still on, the rest of the series though may be in trouble....


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## xsavoie (Jun 29, 1999)

A 1960's to 1970's Batman comic book based kit would sell great if both details and action pose are right.Superman would have sold much better if both the details and resemblance would have been done correctly.


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## TAY666 (Jan 8, 2000)

I too am glad there isn't much new news for kits.
There is already a lot out there I still need to get. 
As well as stuff already in the pipeline that I will probably pick up.

I don't read too much into the fact that there isn't a lot more on the drawing boards.
R2 - just canceled some kits due to slow sales. Still have several projects in the works in varying stages. They need to wrap those up and generate a bit of operating revenue in order to think about tooling up more stuff.

Moebius - Frank is already pretty tied up with the Batman and BSG stuff. Why add more to an already hectic schedule?

Pegasus - still churning out stuff at about the same pace they have been.

Atlantis - working on quite a bit, just most of it isn't kits right now.

Monarch - finally got Gorgo out. And has learned to not mention anything until the kits are on the way.

So, where exactly where exactly is all the exciting news supposed to be coming from?
We've been spoiled the past few years, but that pace was unsustainable. Both the companies, and the people buying kits need a bit of a lull to catch up and recover.


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

Zombie_61 said:


> The original sculpt for the Superman kit might have been good, but the kit they produced from it has a lot of soft detail, especially on the face where you _want_ sharp detail.
> 
> With regards to producing figure kits, it seems Polar Lights' quality control is hit-and-miss. The Wolverine kit you mentioned appears to have been fairly well received, but once word about the soft detail on the Superman kit spread around the 'Net interest in that kit seemed to die off. Another example is the Wolfman kit that was produced from the Randy Bowen sculpt (the smaller styrene version, that is) in the late 90s. I've chatted with a number of people online who, like me, received a kit that had soft and/or missing detail and gaps between joining parts that rivaled any of the 60s-era Aurora figure kits, and an almost equal number of people who had no such problems with their kits. Clearly there's a problem somewhere in the process, but Polar Lights/Round 2 appears to be either unaware of the problem, or unable to identify and correct it. To be clear, I like the kits produced by Polar Lights/Round 2, but some of them require a _lot_ of extra work to look presentable.









I haven't got the Superman kit but from what I've seen the detail on the face looked soft so that might not have helped. I'd love to see more styrene Marvel kits like the F4 but I doubt we'll get any now.

I still find it hard to believe a lot of older modellers wouldn't have bought that new Thor kit though.


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## Zombie_61 (Apr 21, 2004)

djnick66 said:


> Likewise, the Moebius Invisible Man is much much better than the mediocre Black Widow and original Frankenstein sculpts.


Back when Moebius was still regularly active on this forum, Frank explained the problems behind the Frankenstein kit. Universal took so long with the approvals process that the licensing agreement was nearing it's expiration date, so they left Moebius with three choices: 1) scrap the kit and lose all of the time and money spent on developing it, 2) spend money that wasn't in the budget to renew the licensing, resulting in Moebius taking a loss on the project, or 3) release the kit as-is even though they knew it wasn't as good as it could have been and wasn't to their liking. Moebius made the best of a bad situation and took a lot of heat for it but, judging by the results of their Dracula and Bride of Frankenstein kits, it appears they learned a valuable lesson in the process.



SUNGOD said:


> I still find it hard to believe a lot of older modellers wouldn't have bought that new Thor kit though.


I wouldn't have bought one. I never read the Thor comics, didn't particularly care for the _Thor_ movie, and really couldn't care less about the character.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Oh, I'd have gotten a Thor. The comic is currently one of the best written and drawn in the Marvel stable.


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

Zombie_61 said:


> Back when Moebius was still regularly active on this forum, Frank explained the problems behind the Frankenstein kit. Universal took so long with the approvals process that the licensing agreement was nearing it's expiration date, so they left Moebius with three choices: 1) scrap the kit and lose all of the time and money spent on developing it, 2) spend money that wasn't in the budget to renew the licensing, resulting in Moebius taking a loss on the project, or 3) release the kit as-is even though they knew it wasn't as good as it could have been and wasn't to their liking. Moebius made the best of a bad situation and took a lot of heat for it but, judging by the results of their Dracula and Bride of Frankenstein kits, it appears they learned a valuable lesson in the process.
> 
> I wouldn't have bought one. I never read the Thor comics, didn't particularly care for the _Thor_ movie, and really couldn't care less about the character.





Ok but you're just one person. He's not my favourite superhero but I'd have bought him and no doubt others would have too.


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## TAY666 (Jan 8, 2000)

Not me. No interest in super hero kits at all.
No interest in hardware either.
Monsters and dinos are all I want. And thanks, but no Universal monsters either. They don't do anything for me, unless they are 1:13 scale.


Which just demonstrates the problem.

Models themselves are niche market.
Non-mainstream kits (planes, cars, boats, war) are a niche of that niche.
And that small sliver of the buying public has very specific tastes on what they want.


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## Scott J (Jun 21, 2000)

BatToys said:


> What about the resin King Kong kit? I want to buy one so I hope it wasn't canceled.


Was told that it was canceled as well. I offered to buy the sculpt but got sort of a blank look. It's a shame.........was really nice. 

Scott J.


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## Zombie_61 (Apr 21, 2004)

TAY666 said:


> ...Models themselves are niche market.
> Non-mainstream kits (planes, cars, boats, war) are a niche of that niche.
> And that small sliver of the buying public has very specific tastes on what they want.


You only have to read a "kit suggestions/wishlist" thread to know this is true. "Moebius should produce a kit of 'Item X' from _An Obscure Movie From 1953 That Only Eight People Have Ever Heard Of_, it would be a huge hit!" Uhhhh, I hate to be the one to break it to you but, no, it wouldn't.


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## Rob P. (Jan 26, 2004)

Zombie_61 said:


> You only have to read a "kit suggestions/wishlist" thread to know this is true. "Moebius should produce a kit of 'Item X' from _An Obscure Movie From 1953 That Only Eight People Have Ever Heard Of_, it would be a huge hit!" Uhhhh, I hate to be the one to break it to you but, no, it wouldn't.


And yet some mainstream characters, such as The Fly, and Bela Lugosi as Ygor probably would do great amongst us older builders and they do not get made. However, I personally was most pleased when Moebius brought out The Invisible Man which was long overdue, and Monarch brought out The Ghost of Castel-mare ( A real styrene niche kit) and Nosferatu. Thank you from me to them for those kits in particular! Everything else they make that is Horror related has been icing on the cake! 

Rob


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## BatToys (Feb 4, 2002)

King Kong is definitely canceled. I think it would sell in smaller numbers but at a higher price for those who truly want to buy it.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

I want a kit of the 1940 serial Batman & Robin, complete with a decal for Robin's tattoo.


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

With Round2, it sounds like they're still checking off all the feedback from WF 2012, a better Eagle, 1/1000 RBoP, 1/1000 Defiant in a multi-kit pack, etc., not to mention a still-pending Galileo. 

Too bad about the wicked witch. I'm not generally into figure kits, but that could have been a cool diorama. Not surprised overall with the figure kits though. Just about anyone can paint any given vehicle, but not everyone can do good flesh tones and when it comes to getting the eyes centered and proportional, that just makes or breaks however good a job is done on the rest of the kit. They're tough and not for everyone.

Perhaps when R2 gets their backlog cleared, they will next year have better announcements.

Maybe attendance is down as they changed the weekend. It used to be earlier in May, didn't it?


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

BatToys said:


> King Kong is definitely canceled. I think it would sell in smaller numbers but at a higher price for those who truly want to buy it.







Ok I wasn't interested in Kong as it was resin but I wouldn't worry. Some garage resin guys could do that (or something very similar).

In fact I'd be happy if R2 cancelled as much resin as possible. They're supposed to be a plastic kit manufacturer after all.


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

We know you dont like resin but your pretty much in the minority when it comes to people who want to build niche subject figures. No one said Round 2 had to be a plastic kit company. AMT after all stood for Aluminum Model Toys. If companies followed very narrow minded and parochial thinking they would still be selling wooden kits. Here is your Kong... it's a block of wood and a razor blade.


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## Zathros (Dec 21, 2000)

djnick66 said:


> But he still has the Johnny Quest and Space Ghost ships coming out


*not my thang...*


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## Zombie_61 (Apr 21, 2004)

Rob P. said:


> And yet some mainstream characters, such as The Fly, and Bela Lugosi as Ygor probably would do great amongst us older builders and they do not get made. However, I personally was most pleased when Moebius brought out The Invisible Man which was long overdue, and Monarch brought out The Ghost of Castel-mare ( A real styrene niche kit) and Nosferatu. Thank you from me to them for those kits in particular! Everything else they make that is Horror related has been icing on the cake!
> 
> Rob


There are countless characters from classic movies that would make good subjects for styrene figure kits, but the legal issues behind their production are probably more of an obstacle than anything else.

By the way, I think Moebius' Invisible Man kit is one of the best styrene figure kits ever produced, from the concept to the execution. But I know some modelers were displeased with the fact that it wasn't based on Claude Rains' image from the movie. *shrug*



John P said:


> I want a kit of the 1940 serial Batman & Robin, complete with a decal for Robin's tattoo.


Was that the 1943 serial or the 1949 serial? I have them both on DVD and I don't remember Robin having any visible tattoos in either of them.


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## Rob P. (Jan 26, 2004)

Zombie_61 said:


> There are countless characters from classic movies that would make good subjects for styrene figure kits, but the legal issues behind their production are probably more of an obstacle than anything else.
> 
> By the way, I think Moebius' Invisible Man kit is one of the best styrene figure kits ever produced, from the concept to the execution. But I know some modelers were displeased with the fact that it wasn't based on Claude Rains' image from the movie. *shrug*


Forgot about legal issues when I was typing that, but your right. That probably hamstrings many possible kits. 

As for The Invisible Man being an exact likeness of Claude Rains? Aurora was not too concerned about The Wolfman and the Hunchback, etc. And most monster modelers still love'em. I think the Moebius kit looks great. Their Frankenstein was tougher to like and truthfully I am thankful to have a couple COPP replacement heads for my kit when I build it. But I think if I were a kid again, I would not have been as picky! 

Rob


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## Zombie_61 (Apr 21, 2004)

Rob P. said:


> ...As for The Invisible Man being an exact likeness of Claude Rains? Aurora was not too concerned about The Wolfman and the Hunchback, etc. And most monster modelers still love'em. I think the Moebius kit looks great...


I still like the Aurora kits for their "cool" factor and nostalgic value, but they sure weren't concerned with exact likenesses on _any_ of their figure kits.

On that note, I think that makes it more difficult for companies like Moebius and Monarch to produce figure kits these days. Those of us who built the Aurora kits when we were kids are much older now and are less willing to accept kits that aren't a decent representation of the characters they're based on. This is evidenced in the fact that Moebius' Frankenstein kit received a lot of critical commentary about the likeness (or lack of), while their Broadway Dracula and Bride of Frankenstein kits with their more accurate likenesses were well received by most modelers. We modelers are a tough crowd these days.


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

djnick66 said:


> We know you dont like resin but your pretty much in the minority when it comes to people who want to build niche subject figures. No one said Round 2 had to be a plastic kit company. AMT after all stood for Aluminum Model Toys. If companies followed very narrow minded and parochial thinking they would still be selling wooden kits. Here is your Kong... it's a block of wood and a razor blade.









It all depends on what's niche when it comes to the group of modellers (mainly us older gits) that a subject is aimed at I suppose.

Ok there's no written rule that says R2 has to do all plastic kits and can't experiment with other mediums........but it's overwhelmingly plastic kits they're known for and they were what replaced the wooden stuff.


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

Rob P. said:


> Forgot about legal issues when I was typing that, but your right. That probably hamstrings many possible kits.
> 
> As for The Invisible Man being an exact likeness of Claude Rains? Aurora was not too concerned about The Wolfman and the Hunchback, etc. And most monster modelers still love'em. I think the Moebius kit looks great. Their Frankenstein was tougher to like and truthfully I am thankful to have a couple COPP replacement heads for my kit when I build it. But I think if I were a kid again, I would not have been as picky!
> 
> Rob




It's the damn legal issues and greedy licence holders that are probably the biggest problem. One of the reasons Monarch produces kits that either don't need a licence or a very cheap licence.


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

I am not convinced that licensing is always the huge issue that modelers make it out to be. If a company doesnt make a kit of their pet project, licensing is an easy scapegoat. Its a fact that pretty much anything today involves some sort of licensing, yet that doesnt seem to prevent many licensed products. Of course if you are dealing with rinky dink garage kit makers then it may be an issue, but it hasn't stopped mainstream companies from doing licensed kits. Even the bad ones like NASCAR and Harley are pretty well represented. I see companies do creative things all the time too, to avoid licensing issues. The new Revell D Day landing craft wtih jeep actually says "with US Army 4x4 vehicle" to avoid using the jeep name. Kit has a jeep - they just don't call it a jeep.


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## Zombie_61 (Apr 21, 2004)

djnick66 said:


> I am not convinced that licensing is always the huge issue that modelers make it out to be. If a company doesnt make a kit of their pet project, licensing is an easy scapegoat. Its a fact that pretty much anything today involves some sort of licensing, yet that doesnt seem to prevent many licensed products...


This may be true, but there's more to licensing than simply paying off the owner of the property. To use your own examples, NASCAR and Harley-Davidson are both very well-known and very popular brands, so the odds that any products associated with them will sell well are far more favorable than, say, a figure kit of Bela Lugosi as Murder Legendre from _White Zombie_, i.e. a little known character from what's considered to be a fairly obscure movie these days.

Also, as far as licensing is concerned, model kits are at the bottom of the food chain, especially model kits in genres that aren't consistently strong sellers. And quite often it's the property owners, not the model companies, that don't even want to discuss licensing for model kits because they know they won't sell as well as pre-built die cast cars, bobble heads, plush toys, or just about anything else you can think of that isn't a model kit. These days the only people who care about model kits are the people who produce them, and those of us who still build them; the rest of the world has bigger fish to fry.


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

Zombie_61 said:


> This may be true, but there's more to licensing than simply paying off the owner of the property. To use your own examples, NASCAR and Harley-Davidson are both very well-known and very popular brands, so the odds that any products associated with them will sell well are far more favorable than, say, a figure kit of Bela Lugosi as Murder Legendre from _White Zombie_, i.e. a little known character from what's considered to be a fairly obscure movie these days.
> 
> Also, as far as licensing is concerned, model kits are at the bottom of the food chain, especially model kits in genres that aren't consistently strong sellers. And quite often it's the property owners, not the model companies, that don't even want to discuss licensing for model kits because they know they won't sell as well as pre-built die cast cars, bobble heads, plush toys, or just about anything else you can think of that isn't a model kit. These days the only people who care about model kits are the people who produce them, and those of us who still build them; the rest of the world has bigger fish to fry.






I wonder what Harley and Nascar licence fees are like?


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## finaprint (Jan 29, 2006)

Dunno, but a MAJOR independent LHS here in Fort Worth who survived from like 1988 to around 2007 had a really big section of esoteric modeling like we here would love. A sci-fi and horror figure section along with resin, and where I first met Polar kits. It became my stomping grounds every single weekend, when the place would be crowded with people. When he branched out into preschooler type toys and hobbies of all types I wondered, but then he bought BIGTIME into Nascar and Harley branded stuff right around the opening of the Nascar local track (Texas Motorplex), thinking the world was coming to his door. Fully half the stuff I went for was replaced by Nascar this and that including clothing. He may have been getting in dire straits by then, regardless, that was the death knell, he spun lower and lower and finally closed from lack of business. I remember telling my son who always went with me that we were watching the beginning of the end. I never saw anyone buy a single Nascar item all the myriad times I went in there after he went that way. Many looked but no one bought, the prices were astronomical. I though bought thousands of dollars worth of models and things to go with them over the years and when it folded I was alone for a good while there. I made good money at the time and don't hesitate to say I spent at least $25 every single time I went in and often much more. 

Sure miss that place and its' atmosphere. It was Nascar, Nascar did him in there..........


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## MJB (Aug 3, 2001)

At WonderCon in April, Jeff Yeager was at Franks booth. I tried to convince him that he needed to sculpt a superior head for the 1931 Frankenstein kit that actually looked like Karloff and to do it in resin like he did for the more accurate looking heads for the Bride kit. Right after WonderCon, Frank still had a few of the Bride resin heads left.

John P, sorry you missed them. About 7-10 years ago, Terry Beatty revised his garage kit of the 1943 Serial Batman and added Robin to the set. Haven't built it yet but the sculpt is awesome. I was trying to get him to revise his Tom Tyler Captain Marvel garage kit too. Sadly, that didn't happen.


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## Jodet (May 25, 2008)

apls said:


> I am happy to see the reissue of the cutaway Enterprise. I may get that instead of the massive one out now, it’s too intimidating. This, with aftermarket parts, could be an awesome kit.


I've been saying for a decade they should make this with a one-piece saucer hull. 

Of course I also sent them letters forever saying they should do a 'ships of the fleet' series, in 1/1000 scale and they listened to that (finally).


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## Bwain no more (May 18, 2005)

Actually about a year ago Jeff DID sculpt a superior Karloff Frankenstein head to fit the 1931 Moebius Frankenstein kit which I produced in resin, and it has been a fairly good seller. :hat: In fact, I am about to retire the first set of molds and commission a new set, but that will have to wait until AFTER getting my latest Yagher project wrapped up...:wave:
Tom
BTW; Attached pic is the FANTASTIC paint-up by Mark McGovern that also appears on my website. :thumbsup:


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## apls (Dec 5, 2005)

Bwain no more said:


> Actually about a year ago Jeff DID sculpt a superior Karloff Frankenstein head to fit the 1931 Moebius Frankenstein kit which I produced in resin, and it has been a fairly good seller. :hat: In fact, I am about to retire the first set of molds and commission a new set, but that will have to wait until AFTER getting my latest Yagher project wrapped up...:wave:
> Tom
> BTW; Attached pic is the FANTASTIC paint-up by Mark McGovern that also appears on my website. :thumbsup:


I have the test make up head, awesome. I suggested the next replacement head for Barnabas Collins, should be the Green Hornet. He has the overcoat. What's new coming up in replacement heads, besides Sherlock Holmes? How 'bout for Nosferatu, Dr. Pretorious, he is wearing a frock coat.


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

SUNGOD said:


> I wonder what Harley and Nascar licence fees are like?


From what I gathered working in the hobby industry, Harley was the all time worst company to deal with That is why for a long time you didn't even see much die cast or toy Harleys. There were no Harley motorcycle model kits for a good decade too. With them its just excessive fees to use their overbloated name.

NASCAR seems to be easy with the license, if you have money. There is no shortage of NASCAR stuff which in some ways probably hurts them. They allow all kinds of crap to have the NASCAR name for the right price


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## finaprint (Jan 29, 2006)

As an avid Japanese biker, I still haven't gotten over the Harley crying to kill all sales of 700cc plus bikes to create the wonky 700 class that existed for a few years there, or their trying to claim copyright on the very sound an engine makes, pure greed there. I loathe them as the bike that still is stuck in the 1930s...........and the prices? You bought one, you got took there.


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## Bwain no more (May 18, 2005)

apls said:


> I have the test make up head, awesome. I suggested the next replacement head for Barnabas Collins, should be the Green Hornet. He has the overcoat. What's new coming up in replacement heads, besides Sherlock Holmes? How 'bout for Nosferatu, Dr. Pretorious, he is wearing a frock coat.


Bear in mind COPP actually stands for Cult Of Personality/Posthumous. Test make-up head is from Posthumous (FANTASTIC sculpt by Ray Santoleri) as are the two Holmes parts sets (see attached pics, portraits are both by Rick Force with deerstalker caps grown using a 3-D printer). Jeff Yagher is a VERY busy guy (deservedly so) but the head I have him working on is of a favorite make-up of his that he has NEVER sculpted before; in fact, I do not believe there has ever been a garage kit based on this version of the character! Look for an announcement soon over on the Clubhouse.:thumbsup:
Tom


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

^Ooooh, I like the Holmes! There should be a Jeremy Brett too.


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