# SMC Premium Certified Packs.



## Danny-SMC

*Our new Premium Certified line of high performance packs are designed for the serious racer and backyard basher who want the best combination of milliamp hour and voltage. These packs are built using the very best materials, mainly from Japan, which insure the highest possible cycle life with no premature drop in milliamp hour.*

*Features:*

*Race Formula:*The best formulation is used to achieve the lowest possible internal resistance for increased acceleration (punch). The voltage curve is optimized to have the best possible voltage in the first part of the discharge cycle. Since typical races don’t use more than 50% of a packs mAh.


*True C rates: *Since there is no official standard for C rate testing, factories and resellers have taken advantage of this and use C rates as marketing tools to increase sales and profits. SMC premium certified packs are rated using our own C rate standard that we feel is truthful and accurate and will not mislead the customer. You can visit this thread on Hobbytalk to read up on our C rate testing standard http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showpost.php?p=4114981&postcount=6


*True mAh rating: *All packs have a true mAh rating. We use a 35 amp discharge to determine the mAh of our packs. We feel the 0.5 to 1C method used by some is not truly representative of the actual mAh you will experience in real use.


*IR Tested: *The Internal Resistance of each cell within a pack is tested using the ESR meter to make sure they are within the specs we list for each model. This guarantees that the proper cells are used within each model.


*RC Matched: *Resistance and Capacity matched so the pack has its full performance potential. If the cells within a pack aren’t well matched, this will result in less performance and lower cycle life.


*High Cycle Life: *The very best materials from Japan are used and every model is tested using our cycle life testing method. Data is shown for each model and we guarantee these packs to have the best possible cycle life when treated properly. You can visit this thread on Hobbytalk that explains our cycle life testing method and shows some interesting results http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showpost.php?p=4116063&postcount=12


*If you want the best packs at the best price, Premium Certified packs are the only packs you should consider. The performance will be better or equal than our competitor's higher rated packs. So stop paying too much for a label with inflated specs! *


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## Danny-SMC

*6025-2s2p & 4s2p*

The first two models we will offer under the new Premium Certified series will be a 6500mAh 2S and 4S hardcase pack.

6525-2S2P Premium Certified 7.4V 6500mAh 25C 79.95

6525-4S2P Premium Certified 14.8V 6500mAh 25C 129.95

We expect to have these new packs in stock by the middle of May. 

Attached is the graph of the 3250mAh cell used to build these packs. Using our own C rate standard you can see the cell has a very good discharge curve at 25C. To get more info on our C rate standard you can visit the thread *SMC C Rate Standard*

The cycle life test graph is also attached. To get more info on how we do our cycle life testing visit this thread *Cycle Life Testing* 

As you can see from the cycle life testing graph the drop in mAh from cycle 1 to 50 is only 0.8% which is very low.


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## mikeblackstock

Looking good Danny. Can not wait to run them in my cars!!!!

Thanks for everything.

Mike Blackstock


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## Danny-SMC

*Pre-Order Special*

Were very confident that our new Premium Certified packs will be the best packs out on the market as far as mAh and IR/Voltage. 

Were offering a 2 week pre-order special price of 64.95 for the 2S and 109.95 for the 4S.

To be able to get this special price email us at [email protected] with your name and quantity you need. Free shipping on 2 packs or more. 

Once the packs come in we will email you and will sell you the packs at the special launch price. 

We will stop taking in orders at the reduced price on May 1st.


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## Roadsplat

Danny-SMC said:


> Were very confident that our new Premium Certified packs will be the best packs out on the market as far as mAh and IR/Voltage.
> 
> Were offering a 2 week pre-order special price of 64.95 for the 2S and 109.95 for the 4S.
> 
> To be able to get this special price email us at [email protected] with your name and quantity you need. Free shipping on 2 packs or more.
> 
> Once the packs come in we will email you and will sell you the packs at the special launch price.
> 
> We will stop taking in orders at the reduced price on May 1st.


Will you have Shorty's available when these are released?

RC


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## Danny-SMC

No I'm still testing short style packs. For a pack to be under the Premium Certified line I need to make sure it has the best possible specs for that particular mAh. 

What are the popular classes that use short packs ? Is it mainly modified or is stock style racing still popular in offroad ?


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## ta_man

Danny-SMC said:


> The first two models we will offer under the new Premium Certified series will be a 6500mAh 2S and 4S hardcase pack.
> 
> 6025-2S2P Premium Certified 7.4V 6500mAh 25C 79.95
> 
> 6025-4S2P Premium Certified 14.8V 6500mAh 25C 129.95
> 
> We expect to have these new packs in stock by the middle of May.


PM sent with a question about these packs.

Another question not in the PM: Will these packs have bullet receptacles or be hard wired? (Mainly interested in the 4S pack)


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## Danny-SMC

The 4S will be with 10AWG wires and Deans.


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## Roadsplat

Danny-SMC said:


> No I'm still testing short style packs. For a pack to be under the Premium Certified line I need to make sure it has the best possible specs for that particular mAh.
> 
> What are the popular classes that use short packs ? Is it mainly modified or is stock style racing still popular in offroad ?



Most guys around here are running either 13.5 or 10.5 in the buggy's. Not sure what's popular else where.


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## calvin

Personally I'm hoping to be able to use them in some of the older cars that the size of current LiPo batteries have pretty much sidelined.


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## Danny-SMC

You mean use the short case packs in old style cars ? Is the current 2S ROAR style long case to big for certain cars ?


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## calvin

Yes. 

Far from being an expert on all the different models that may have been affected, it definitely negatively affected the center-line battery placement cars that we were racing at the time. 

The Losi JRXS Type R - I was finally able to find one manufacturer that made a cell that would fit (I still had to make extensive modifications to the car including a redesign of the lay shaft). 

The HPI PRO3 - Never was able to find a battery to fit this one (and for some perverse reason I love this car). I'm currently looking for a reasonably priced shorty pack for this one. I just heard about shorty packs a short time ago and hope these will allow me to put this car back on the track.

The Original X-Ray T-2 - Not 100% sure on this one as I never tried personally but I seem to remember reading about having to make modifications to the top deck and other places to use the LiPo.

The problem is not necessarily always the length. The width and thickness can also come into play as well as the shape. In the case of the HPI PRO3 the lack of curvature in the hard case to mimic a round cell in the top of the battery case where the rear cell would have been interferes with the layshaft gears (can't fit a square peg in a round hole). This by itself pretty much prevents any standard length 2S pack from fitting - therefore hoping that a shorty pack can be moved far enough forward to clear this obstruction (assuming it's not too wide or thick).

I've heard that some of the later round cells would not work in older cars due to their slightly larger size. If you did your research maybe you could size your shorty packs to play in this part of the market - especially keeping an eye on the width and thickness (I already assume that they are shorter).


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## Danny-SMC

Thanks for the info. If your racing competitively a lower mAh pack will not have as much power due to a lower voltage curve.

Here is a graph of our Premium Certified 6500/25C versus a Short 3800/30C.


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## race71

Is there a reason why shorts cant be over 3800 mAh?


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## Danny-SMC

To increase mAh you must increase surface area or decrease C rate. Since the short case pack is shorter the surface area is reduced so this reduces the mAh. I believe 3800 to 4000 is the max for this size pack.


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## Danny-SMC

The first shipment of Premium Certified packs is finally ready and will be arriving by the end of next week.


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## Danny-SMC

The 6500/2S and 6500/4S Premium Certified packs are in stock.


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## reggie's dad

*Plans?*

Any plans to make 1 cells in the Premium packs? :dude:


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## Danny-SMC

Will most likely release a new 1S for the fall season. Still not sure if were going to release it under the certified series as I need to see how this series will be accepted. Not sure racers/customers are ready to understand the truth about C rates.


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## sportpak

I would run a 1C pack if it was smoking fast on the track.


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## Danny-SMC

Yes I know some of you don't believe in the hype and want to race the best packs and this is why I have always tried to sell the best possible packs for the racers and not really been one to hype up our packs. Unfortunately this is not how everyone feels and some want to believe in the hype so I'm not sure that the true C rate is the way to go for now. I'm thinking of releasing a new line of packs called Factory Spec and just use the specs given by the factory and not testing the packs for true C rate using my standard. I will have a chart on our website or this site that will show the IR of each one of our packs this way the educated racer/customer will know that a 150C rated pack is not any better than a 25C Certified as both would show the same IR. This way we can sell packs to those who want higher labelled packs and don't understand there is no such C rates as 50 , 75 , 90 , 150 and so on.


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## Danny-SMC

I got a chance to cycle a random pack of of 6525-2S2P from the first shipment of Premium Certified 6500s.

The pack was cycled once by being charged on my balance charger to make sure it started off perfectly balanced. I let the pack cool down for 5 hours then cycled it on the GFX. The pack and room temp was 22.7 degrees Celsius or 72.86 Fahrenheit.

I charged the pack at 12 amps and discharged it at 35 amps.

The IR from the ESR meter at the end of charge was 1.84 for cell one which measures the cell that has the positive tube and 1.92 for the cell two which is the negative tube. It's normal for cell one to have a bit less IR as the wire that solders the tube to the tab is shorter on the positive side.

GFX data: 6504mAh - 7.47 Average Volts - 3.9 Internal Resistance 

The IR is bit lower than I had expected compared to the sample pack I tested but I think the sample pack had a bit higher IR because the mAh was 6600 and this one is 6500. 

Hope all the guys that bought these packs will be happy with them as the data is as good as I had expected.


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## Danny-SMC

*SMC Premium Certified 6500-25C versus Other brands*

For those of you who have followed the thread about various packs I've been testing know that I've tested allot of different packs. I've decided to make a graph showing our new Premium Certified 6500-25C inboard pack versus other popular brands high end packs to show that a truly rated 25C pack is as good as any other pack on the market. The first cycle data for every pack was used. If you want to see how certain packs change after 50 cycles visit this thread. http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=362697

This graph clearly shows that C rates are just used as marketing and in some cases mAh is also used as marketing. 

Hope this will help everyone better understand what is going on these days in the RC battery market.


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## WIGMAN

How come there is a voltage spike at the 1000mah spot on the graph.
very good information again.


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## Danny-SMC

This is the IR test that the GFX performs. It drops the amp rate then brings it back and uses the voltage drop to calculate the IR of the cell/pack.


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## SPC

WIGMAN said:


> How come there is a voltage spike at the 1000mah spot on the graph.
> very good information again.


That represents where the GFX briefly pauses the discharge to make the IR reading.
Oops, Danny beat me to it. :wave:


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## STLNLSTT

A ton of interesting read on here. My brain is in over load now....lol Thanks for giving us (the racer) this much needed info.


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## sportpak

STLNLSTT said:


> A ton of interesting read on here. My brain is in over load now....lol Thanks for giving us (the racer) this much needed info.


It's sort of like finding out Santa Claus is a crock.:hat: 
I have the ESR meter and it's mind boggling when you test a battery at room temp and thru a few different temp ranges. I'm hoping to get a little track time soon to see what my giant pile of notes actually mean in real life.


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## STLNLST

sportpak said:


> It's sort of like finding out Santa Claus is a crock.:hat:
> I have the ESR meter and it's mind boggling when you test a battery at room temp and thru a few different temp ranges. I'm hoping to get a little track time soon to see what my giant pile of notes actually mean in real life.


I have my packs and I'm off to go play with my toys:thumbsup:


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## Danny-SMC

Keep me posted on how you like the new packs. So far feedback has been very good.


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## ta_man

Danny-SMC said:


> Keep me posted on how you like the new packs. So far feedback has been very good.


I'm running mine (4S) in a 1/8th scale electric late model. They are working very well. No noticeable drop-off for the whole 5 minute race (running against Nitros so I can tell I am just as fast at the end of the race as at the beginning).

One thing could be improved: slightly longer balance cable leads. I like to use balance plug protectors on my balance leads so I don't worry about pulling out the terminals but the leads on these packs are too short to fit a balance plug protector.

This is what I mean by a "balance plug protector":


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## STLNLST

Danny-SMC said:


> Keep me posted on how you like the new packs. So far feedback has been very good.


Packs were great. Finished 11th overall in the 17.5 buggy class at the JConcepts. I had great consistent power from tone to tone. Pack is a little on the heavy side but other than that I cant wait to run it again. Are there any plans for a Premium 5000 pack in the future? Also, How should I care for the pack when I'm not racing? Anyone buying this pack won't be disappointed. I went up against shorty packs, 90c, 70c etc...... A little bit of everything thing in the industry was at this race. Keep em coming Danny.


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## Danny-SMC

ta man: I will ask the factory if they can add a bit of length to the balance. Thanks for showing the picture of the balance connector protector I had never seen this before.

STLNLST: Glad to hear you liked the pack. I agree it's a bit heavy but low IR with high mAh comes at the expense of weight. Not sure what we can do as far as the weight as if we make a lower mAh pack and want to have the same type of IR as the 6500 it will need to have higher C rate which increases the weight.

As far as care goes just keep them stored without to much charge. 3.6 to 3.8v per cell will be fine. Keep them in a dry place at room temp or a bit cooler. If it's to hot where you store them this will increase the self discharge rate.


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## STLNLST

Are the packs going to be roar legal soon? I also miss my deans plugs


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## Danny-SMC

Still looking at the option of getting these ROAR approved. It gets expensive and the majority of the packs we sell can be used without being approved. We may release a wired version of this pack.


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## Hiwidehandsome

Of the 1 cell batteries, which is the best you have? Not by factory numbers.
thanks.


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## Danny-SMC

Were currently out of 1S packs and will be releasing a new one in September. Still not sure on the specs as I'm waiting on the sample pack from the factory.


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## kevinm

ta_man said:


> I'm running mine (4S) in a 1/8th scale electric late model. They are working very well. No noticeable drop-off for the whole 5 minute race (running against Nitros so I can tell I am just as fast at the end of the race as at the beginning).
> 
> One thing could be improved: slightly longer balance cable leads. I like to use balance plug protectors on my balance leads so I don't worry about pulling out the terminals but the leads on these packs are too short to fit a balance plug protector.
> 
> This is what I mean by a "balance plug protector":


Where did you get the covers for the balance plugs?


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