# Anyone ever notice?



## Antimatter (Feb 16, 2008)

The Seaview control room shows the ladder going to the sail is BEHIND the periscope. Up top the periscope is behind the hatch in the sail. Funny they didn't notice this when building the sets.


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

Antimatter said:


> The Seaview control room shows the ladder going to the sail is BEHIND the periscope. Up top the periscope is behind the hatch in the sail. Funny they didn't notice this when building the sets.


Ever notice that no matter which version of the Seaview you look at, that ladder and periscope inside either control room are nowhere near the sail!!


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

This was talked about before. It seems like the periscope the captain looks through on the control deck is a remote control device for the actual periscope tubes. They do not line up.


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

djnick66 said:


> This was talked about before. It seems like the periscope the captain looks through on the control deck is a remote control device for the actual periscope tubes. They do not line up.


People can make that up, but in "reality", why not just have a monitor to project the image from the actual periscope on the sail? No, the reality was, in 1964-1968, it was supposed to be an actual standard working World War II type periscope. Just one of those things you have to overlook and just enjoy the story and not get bogged down with little things like this.


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## DCH10664 (Jul 16, 2012)

I think it's funny how I seem to notice things like that NOW, when watching alot of the old shows. But when I was a kid watching these shows, I never noticed the strings and mistakes. And if I watch these old shows with my kids, they seem to spot the mistakes even quicker than I do. But still I enjoy the old shows.


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

When Crane is introduced on the show he infiltrates the sub and fights his way on board- they show him on the ladder in the sail and the lower half of him is in the Control Room...


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

Even in the movie, we see Nelson and Crane climb down from the Flying Bridge, soaked with sweat, despite the fact that the control room and sail are about 30 feet apart. It is still a great film!!


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## Seaview (Feb 18, 2004)

I've also noticed (now that I'm older) that the Flying Sub access hatch at the nose of the Seaview doesn't match the location of the top hatch of the Flying Sub in its' lower bay position of the sub itself. There were several scenes in the course of the series showing the officers and crewmen looking straight down into the interior of the Flying Sub (to see wolf-men, aliens, saboteurs, etc.) and it still doesn't distract me from just going along with it and enjoying the show.


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## Krel (Jun 7, 2000)

The novel of the VTTBOTS movie mentions that the periscope is a remote device. This is to minimize openings in the pressure hull to allow the Seaview to dive deeper.

David.


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## steve83 (Aug 19, 2008)

Also, in the film and the first season of the show, the control room and the observation room are not one in the same-you had to walk out of the control room (under the sail), and go forward into the observation lounge.


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

steve83 said:


> Also, in the film and the first season of the show, the control room and the observation room are not one in the same-you had to walk out of the control room (under the sail), and go forward into the observation lounge.


Yes, but the control room is still in the same place, just up one level in the first season, so it's relation to the sail never changes from season 1 to 2-4. :thumbsup:


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## scotpens (Sep 6, 2003)

RSN said:


> Even in the movie, we see Nelson and Crane climb down from the Flying Bridge, soaked with sweat, despite the fact that the control room and sail are about 30 feet apart.


In the movie and first season of the TV series, the control room was meant to be directly under the sail, as on a real sub.

When the Flying Sub was added in the second season, the separate interior sets for the control room and observation nose were combined to make a single continuous set. This was done to speed up the action and simplify production -- the camera could now follow characters straight from the Flying Sub access hatch to the control room and vice versa. Of course, that also meant that the control room was now way forward of where it ought to be.



Seaview said:


> I've also noticed (now that I'm older) that the Flying Sub access hatch at the nose of the Seaview doesn't match the location of the top hatch of the Flying Sub in its lower bay position of the sub itself.


The Flying Sub access hatch in the observation room was only about four feet from the bow windows! Sometimes you just have to say to yourself, "It's only a TV show." :tongue:


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

scotpens said:


> In the movie and first season of the TV series, the control room was meant to be directly under the sail, as on a real sub.
> 
> When the Flying Sub was added in the second season, the separate interior sets for the control room and observation nose were combined to make a single continuous set. This was done to speed up the action and simplify production -- the camera could now follow characters straight from the Flying Sub access hatch to the control room and vice versa. Of course, that also meant that the control room was now way forward of where it ought to be.
> 
> ...


Not if you watch the movie, wich clearly shows in the confrontation with Alvarez holding the hand grenade, looking at both Nelson below him and Romano in the control room, from the top of the spiral staircase in the rear bulkhead of the Forward Observation Room, not even close to the sail. 

If you look at this drawing that was used on the show, you can see the "displacement" of the Control Room, Yes, it is not from season one, but it is the same art from season one just with the Flying Sub stuck on in place. You can still see the movie/season 1 two story Observation Room in the bow, with the spiral stairs leading up to the Control Room directly aft of the upper Observation level. (Also the first season sonar dome on the foredeck.) Clearly it was nowhere near the sail, but where it was seen in the film and seson one.

It is just an Irwin Allenism that cannot be reconciled. :thumbsup:

One interesting observation about the graphic they drew up in 1964, if you look in the Control Room you can see the clear plotting map in the rear, with the ladder on it. Instead of going up into the sail, the ladder is shown to line up with the forward deck hatch, even though they continued to infer that it led to the Flying Bridge in the sail.


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## steve83 (Aug 19, 2008)

So it's back to the old "periscope is electronic so it doesn't have to be under the sail"...I suppose. Remember, it is Irwin Allen we're talking about here; sometimes.......yeah.


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## Antimatter (Feb 16, 2008)

RSN said:


> Ever notice that no matter which version of the Seaview you look at, that ladder and periscope inside either control room are nowhere near the sail!!


Not true. The movie and 1st season version lined up. It wasn't until the 2nd season when the Flying Sub was introduced did the mistake begin. The control room was moved way forward down to the lower deck. Even the hatch for the FS was out of alignment. That was Irwin Allen for you.


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

Antimatter said:


> Not true. The movie and 1st season version lined up. It wasn't until the 2nd season when the Flying Sub was introduced did the mistake begin. The control room was moved way forward down to the lower deck. Even the hatch for the FS was out of alignment. That was Irwin Allen for you.


The Control Room never moved forward between the movie/first season, it only moved down a half deck to line up with the lower 4 window of the Observation Room, which was raised a half a deck. It was never aft and under the sail, despite the fact that that is where it should have been.

I posted several examples of how you can see this in the way the sets were laid out in the film and even the schematic the production people people drew up for the first season, which clearly shows the Control Room directly behind and up one deck from the Observation Room. The schematic was altered a bit, in the photo I posted, for the second seaon, but they only glued on a piece of art with the Flying Sub, the Observation Room is still 2 levels with 8 windows and the Control Room is directly behind it, not under the sail.

Can't lay it out any better or clearer, it is what it is............an Irwin Allenism!!


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

steve83 said:


> So it's back to the old "periscope is electronic so it doesn't have to be under the sail"...I suppose. Remember, it is Irwin Allen we're talking about here; sometimes.......yeah.


That about sums it up. He gave us some great stuff so you have to love him for that, even if the draftsman/set designer in me goes crazy when I try to make sense out of his set layouts!!


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

Great designs in all of his shows but sets and miniatures rarely work out with geometry (the Jupiter 2 is the best example of that)


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

Richard Baker said:


> Great designs in all of his shows but sets and miniatures rarely work out with geometry (the Jupiter 2 is the best example of that)


But that was pretty standard for any show, still is. If you look at the exterior of houses and buildings in TV shows, the interiors don't match up. Doors and windows are in the wrong place, or there are extra windows on the outside that don't appear on the inside. 

The Brady house is a great example, the "Upstairs" window on the front was added by the production company, the actual house was a ranch..............so no way Greg could have lived in the third floor attic!!! :thumbsup:


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

RSN said:


> But that was pretty standard for any show, still is. If you look at the exterior of houses and buildings in TV shows, the interiors don't match up. Doors and windows are in the wrong place, or there are extra windows on the outside that don't appear on the inside.
> 
> The Brady house is a great example, the "Upstairs" window on the front was added by the production company, the actual house was a ranch..............so no way Greg could have lived in the third floor attic!!! :thumbsup:


 A lot of the sets were not even square rooms- most were trapazoids missing the longest wall to make filming easier...


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## Krel (Jun 7, 2000)

RSN said:


> Can't lay it out any better or clearer, it is what it is............an Irwin Allenism!!


The rocket mock-up from "Just Imagine" can't hold the interior sets from the movie, or Flash Gordon.....An Irwin Allenism!

The saucer interior sets in "The Day the Earth Stood Still" can't fit in the saucer mock-up.....An Irwin Allenism!

The Munster house sets don't line-up with the exterior.....An Irwin Allenism!

The sets from "Bewitched" don't match up with the house exterior.....An Irwin Allenism!

The ST shuttle sets can't fit into the mock-up.....An Irwin Allenism!

The sets from "The Brady Bunch" can't fit in the house.....An Irwin Allenism!

The Millenium Falcon sets can't fit into the mock-up.....An Irwin Allenism!

The sets from the "Aliens" drop ship can't fit in the mock-up.....An Irwin Allenism!

The sets from the "Aliens" APC can't fit into the vehicle.....An Irwin Allenism!

The Flying Sub's sets can't fit into....Oh wait, they could! With room to spare, that is if they had ever actually built an full mock-up. :lol: Still a rarity in Hollywood vehicle design. 

Who would have guessed that Irwin Allen was so influential, before he was in the business, and even after his passing.

Quite often sets aren't made to scale, and it is rare for a mock-up to be made to scale. Pick your movie. Pick your tv show. Pick your era. They all did it. They all do it. They will all continue to do it in the future.

Someone once asked ;the set designer about the art deco sets in the movie "Marco Polo". He replied that they are not doing real life, just the illusion of real life.

David.


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

Krel said:


> The rocket mock-up from "Just Imagine" can't hold the interior sets from the movie, or Flash Gordon.....An Irwin Allenism!
> 
> The saucer interior sets in "The Day the Earth Stood Still" can't fit in the saucer mock-up.....An Irwin Allenism!
> 
> ...


:thumbsup:


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## kenlee (Feb 11, 2010)

RSN said:


> That about sums it up. He gave us some great stuff so you have to love him for that, even if the draftsman/set designer in me goes crazy when I try to make sense out of his set layouts!!


The position of the flying dub hatch next to the windows in the Seaview don't make sense since that hatch is supposed to lead to the roof hatch of the Flying Sub, that always bugged me.


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## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

kenlee said:


> The position of the flying dub hatch next to the windows in the Seaview don't make sense since that hatch is supposed to lead to the roof hatch of the Flying Sub, that always bugged me.


Even more so, as I seem to recall they never had anyone actually dog the top hatch on the Flying Sub! Usually it was Chip locking down the deck hatch and off they went!

I think that could be a problem...


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

kenlee said:


> The position of the flying dub hatch next to the windows in the Seaview don't make sense since that hatch is supposed to lead to the roof hatch of the Flying Sub, that always bugged me.


If they had just placed it back a few more feet, it would have looked more like where it should be. If the angle of the windows had matched the miniature more, it would have helped also.


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## Mr Morton (Feb 10, 2013)

Ya know guys, the only way this stuff will get resolved is to reboot the whole concept and have all of us as consultants... I'll take charge as soon as I find my way out of this maze of corridors.


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

For me personally, I don't care that it didn't make perfect design sense, I love it and wouldn't change a thing!! :thumbsup:


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## scotpens (Sep 6, 2003)

One notable exception to all this fudging is the submarine _Proteus_ from _Fantastic Voyage_. Because of the large glass area, the full-size mockup actually contained a complete interior, so everything fits. Well, except for those telescoping legs. 



Krel said:


> Someone once asked the set designer about the art deco sets in the movie "Marco Polo". He replied that they are not doing real life, just the illusion of real life.


Indeed. Does this look anything like Venice?


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

scotpens said:


> One notable exception to all this fudging is the submarine _Proteus_ from _Fantastic Voyage_. Because of the large glass area, the full-size mockup actually contained a complete interior, so everything fits. Well, except for those telescoping legs.


One of my favorite vehicles for that very reason. The Gemini XII, in the "Lost in Space" pilot, is also a great example of this type of design and construction.


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

Only problem the Proteus had was the entire volume was filled with the habitable area- no room for ballast tanks, life support or other mechanics. They did build the propulsion into the 'wing' structures though.

On the Seaview was anybody bothered that the Electrical room was full of standing racks which tipped over and threw sparks during every fight scene, but never had a problem when a 'giant water thing' grabbed the sub and started flipping it around?


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## Krel (Jun 7, 2000)

Richard Baker said:


> Only problem the Proteus had was the entire volume was filled with the habitable area- no room for ballast tanks, life support or other mechanics. They did build the propulsion into the 'wing' structures though.


Of course the Proteus had ballast tanks, didn't you see the scene where they manually opened the vales, so the Proteus would sink in the big honkin' syringe? :lol:

I never understood why Harper Goff didn't have the dorsal hatch open into the airlock like the ventral hatch. It would have cut down on the openings into the pressure hull, and would have allowed for top exiting underwater.

David.


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## scotpens (Sep 6, 2003)

Krel said:


> I never understood why Harper Goff didn't have the dorsal hatch open into the airlock like the ventral hatch. It would have cut down on the openings into the pressure hull, and would have allowed for top exiting underwater.


Because that would have made it difficult to film the scene where Donald Pleasence has a claustrophobia attack, goes bananas, and tries to escape by opening the hatch. :tongue:


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

I did not say it did not have Ballast Tanks, I said there was no room for them in the ship as we saw on screen- the interior filled the entire hull.


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## scotpens (Sep 6, 2003)

Richard Baker said:


> I did not say it did not have Ballast Tanks, I said there was no room for them in the ship as we saw on screen- the interior filled the entire hull.


Okay, so the _Proteus_ had just a touch of Irwin Allen geometry. But then, a lot of people mistakenly assume the Master of Disaster produced and/or directed _Fantastic Voyage_!


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## Antimatter (Feb 16, 2008)

The Seaview, endless halls and a torpedo room where the torpedoes fire backward, and the men can go diving at hundreds of feet. It really is the Fantasy World of Irwin Allen.


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## Ace Airspeed (May 16, 2010)

Antimatter said:


> The Seaview, endless halls and a torpedo room where the torpedoes fire backward, and the men can go diving at hundreds of feet. It really is the Fantasy World of Irwin Allen.


And it's very cool......


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## Krel (Jun 7, 2000)

Antimatter said:


> and the men can go diving at hundreds of feet. It really is the Fantasy World of Irwin Allen.


Don't you remember in the first season, when Edgar Bergen's character invented the gases that let the Seaview dive so deep with no ill effects? That's what they're using after Admiral Nelson perfected it, not conventional gases. That's my explanation, and I'm sticking to it! :lol:

David.


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## Antimatter (Feb 16, 2008)

Allen was famous for making great stuff on the outside but lacking on making the insides fit. I remember as a kid seeing in the 3rd season of Lost in Space, that the Jupiter 2 had yet a third level which housed the reactor. Even as a youngster I knew this was crazy. Also, in the first season episodes, the atomic reactor was removed for a balloon of all things. Never mind radiation from it, (this was what would be the diving bell on Voyage). Also never mind that 1, it could not fit inside the Jupiter 2 and 2, how could they have removed it from the ship? Fantasy is right.


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## irishtrek (Sep 17, 2005)

I'm just waiting for Moebius to put out a 1/350 8 window movie Seaview to go along with the 4 window kit.


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