# Chariot Painting solution?



## Lou Dalmaso (Jul 13, 2004)

hey guys! I got a riddle for you.

Q: What's orange and silver and has more windows than Bill Gates?

A: The Lost in Space Chariot.

So, I got my grubby mitts on a test shot of the chariot kit so I could figure out a way to help folks paint the fine framework between all of those big windows (like I did with the TARDIS Kit) So, Nornally what I would do is pull out the black vinyl and start measuring. Well I was looking around and noticed some _orange_ vinyl. 

What I came up with is either the most brilliant (or most cowardly) idea I've had in a while. 

Rather than paint the orange mullions in the inside of the windows, what if I simply made strips and rectangles of the orange vinyl and stuck them to the insides?

the pics below will show what I'm talking about.
(note: the test shot's clear top was not polished, so it's a little cloudy. and the kit robot is standing next to the talking keychain version.)

PS - If you think the instructions are hard, the test shot's parts aren't even numbered.


----------



## j2man (Jun 18, 1999)

I was hoping to get my mits on one at Wonderfest. Frank had said if he had an extra one, he would bring it to the show. I looked for him for over 2 hours. He was busy shopping! Anyway, I left very sad. I did buy a bunch of Pods and such though. I wouldn't mind having a foggy chariot as apposed to having none! Looks really good. Quit cheating and use those shaky hands. ha ha ha:hat:


----------



## F91 (Mar 3, 2002)

The orange doesn't look like a big deal. The silver frames for the entire body? That's a big deal! Is the molding for the frame raised? IE: like a channel?


----------



## Lou Dalmaso (Jul 13, 2004)

here's a closeup of the top part. 
The wider frame (_orange _on the inside..all of his people are _orange_ on the inside...hee) is raised a tiny bit.

the Silver channel on the outside is much thinner, but is more raised.

are we going crazy yet?


----------



## starseeker3 (Jul 23, 2008)

The problem I've always had with vinyl strip, pinstriping, etc, is that it never seems to adhere 100% over a long time. Especially if the kit uses the same mold release as on the Seaview's large parts. I'd go with strips of decal, particularly inside. The Chariot kit seems to be missing the double frames inside and out that parallel the ladder up to the roof and I'm going to try to find some colored plastic for the inside and probably just Evergreen strip for the outside, tho how to cement it w/o marring the clear will be a challenge. 
Still have a real issue with the orange color. I've never seen a photo of the Chariot with that bright an orange. Both on TV and the 2' miniature seem to be red. Any reference photos of an orange Chariot?


----------



## Lou Dalmaso (Jul 13, 2004)

As much as Irwin Allen's shows sported the bright orange on a lot of props, I got no problem believing it was all the same color of orange. The man was "frugal" to say the least.

The vinyl seems to be sticking just fine to the plastic. as long as you don't stretch it when you put it down, it should last you

since I'm presuming that most folks will glue down the top and only use the doors for inside access, the seams won't be visible and the vinyl won't be subject to much wear and tear.


----------



## starseeker3 (Jul 23, 2008)

If anyone does go the decal route, I just realized that if you put the color you want over clear (not white) decal paper, the color will be visible from both sides, ie from the outside through the clear plastic ribs of the model. If you use pinstriping tape, the (usually white?) adhesive side of the tape may be visible from the outside around the edges of the frames. The material you're using has the color on both sides. That's great.

This is as dark a red as I've seen in a photo of the 24" miniature. Other photos I have seen it as light as the orange you're using. The sfx footage on the LIS Forever or Anthology or whatever DVD of the full size Chariot looks more red to me.


----------



## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

I like the way Tamiya molds the frames on their bike kits in silver over the clear windows. Other companies have started doing this now. You can get a clear canopy or cowl with the framing molded in one or more colors. I think Bandai started this with their Gundam kits. The new Tamiya Feisler Storch has the clear parts molded into the opaque fusilage sides.


----------



## Bobman (Jan 21, 2001)

I produce vinyl decals for model kits. CultTVman carries alot of my product. Cutting vinyl squares for the Chariot would not be a problem. Cutting pinstripes wouldn't be a problem either. The squares or rectangles would just stick better to the windows than pinstripes. Pinstripes are too easily stretched and then they don't stick.

It would be easy to produce an orange vinyl decal kit for the Chariot. Once my order comes in.

The kit will include squares, rectangles and pinstripes with a decal placement sheet. I should have one ready sometime in August.:thumbsup:

Hey Lou I'll send you a free decal kit for the idea.:dude:

Bob


----------



## RogueJ (Oct 29, 2000)

Couldn't you mask the windows on the outside, paint the orange on the outside, then paint the silver/aluminum on top of the orange? The orange would then show through the clear on the inside. Just a thought.

Rogue


----------



## Lou Dalmaso (Jul 13, 2004)

Bobman said:


> I produce vinyl decals for model kits. CultTVman carries alot of my product. Cutting vinyl squares for the Chariot would not be a problem. Cutting pinstripes wouldn't be a problem either. The squares or rectangles would just stick better to the windows than pinstripes. Pinstripes are too easily stretched and then they don't stick.
> 
> It would be easy to produce an orange vinyl decal kit for the Chariot. Once my order comes in.
> 
> ...



Hey Bob,
Small world, huh?
Steve carries _my_ line of vinyl templates, too.

whoda thunk?
Lou (Aztek Dummy)


----------



## Capt. Krik (May 26, 2001)

Leave it to you Lou to find a solution to a problem. I'm going to have to pick up a set of those Chariot vinyl strips when they're available.

I'm a big fan of your vinyl templates, having used them on several Star Trek models. I also picked up a couple of sets of your Viper templates to use on a new Viper kit and to repaint my old Viper from the 80's.


----------



## Lou Dalmaso (Jul 13, 2004)

RogueJ said:


> Couldn't you mask the windows on the outside, paint the orange on the outside, then paint the silver/aluminum on top of the orange? The orange would then show through the clear on the inside. Just a thought.
> 
> Rogue


Rogue,
Yes you certainly could, but the kit is molded in such a way that the framework appears as a indented detail on the inside of the "bubble" 

those lines are much easier to follow than they would be looking thru from the outside.

If you saw, you'd know and you will , so there


----------



## David Lanteigne (Apr 26, 2002)

Painting aside, the size of the robot looks just right, about 3 1/4 inches, scale height of 6ft6in, or maybe a little less.


----------



## F91 (Mar 3, 2002)

Are you going to send Bob a free decal to reciprocate?



Lou Dalmaso said:


> Hey Bob,
> Small world, huh?
> Steve carries _my_ line of vinyl templates, too.
> 
> ...


----------



## RogueJ (Oct 29, 2000)

Lou,
So there? Ok, if you say so.


----------



## Bobman (Jan 21, 2001)

Lou Dalmaso said:


> Hey Bob,
> Small world, huh?
> Steve carries _my_ line of vinyl templates, too.
> 
> ...


Hey _Now_ I know who you are. I've seen your top notch work up close. 2 guys who _cut_ vinyl _and_ re-sell to Steve.:freak:

I have a small sign shop that I've been working out of for over 15 years now. Do you have a shop or work for one?

Bob


----------



## Lou Dalmaso (Jul 13, 2004)

Bob,
I make signs as part of my day job, but it's not strictly a sign shop.

I do freelance and have a plotter at home as well


----------



## F91 (Mar 3, 2002)

Keep us up to date. The frames are a challenge, to say the least.


----------



## Bwain no more (May 18, 2005)

Hey Bob; our Chariots are enroute from Tacoma, so with a little luck you'll have your kits in a week or so.
Tom


----------



## Lou Dalmaso (Jul 13, 2004)

success


----------



## Lou Dalmaso (Jul 13, 2004)

here's a couple more pics


----------



## DMC-12 (Oct 7, 2007)

So will this be available soon


----------



## xsavoie (Jun 29, 1999)

Pretty nice Lou.This is what I call a great paint job on a very challenging kit.:thumbsup:


----------



## F91 (Mar 3, 2002)

OK, I'm ready for them. Where do I send money??


----------



## gareee (Jan 1, 1970)

very cool


----------



## Bobman (Jan 21, 2001)

Bwain no more said:


> Hey Bob; our Chariots are enroute from Tacoma, so with a little luck you'll have your kits in a week or so.
> Tom


 
Thanks for the update Tom.:dude:

That means by August 20th I'll have the NEW Chariot vinyl decal sets ready to ship.:woohoo:I'll keep everyone updated on these. I'll have them and I'm sure CultTVman will too.



Great work there Lou! Can't wait to get mine.

Bob


----------



## starseeker2 (Jun 13, 2008)

Very nice work!. Looks really great, far cleaner and more precise than anyone could paint it. Is that a crack in the roof behind the bubble? If so, how careful do you have to be when working with this kit, with rubbing down the vinyl? And can the vinyl be top coated with a different color if we want something a bit different?


----------



## Lou Dalmaso (Jul 13, 2004)

^^Starseeker,
the bubble is cracked. It came that way to me. I can't complain, it was free. 
It also wan't polished, so it has a bit of cloudyness to it. such is the nature of prototype/test shots.

Also all of the parts were cast in black, yuck.

the vinyl went down pretty easily and I think they will stay for a good long time without any top coating. If you must, I suppose you could spray on a light coat of Future. I'd be afraid of using a dul or gloss coat because of what it might do to the clear plastic.

If you have a scrap to try it out on, I'd do that first.


----------



## Opus Penguin (Apr 19, 2004)

I'm ready to purchase a set  How much will they sell for?


----------



## Lou Dalmaso (Jul 13, 2004)

first I'll have to attack the outer silver framework (which will more likely be the traditional paint mask I'm used to making) then once thats all put together with packaging and instructions...then I'll know how much to charge.

I do expect to have that sorted out this week


----------



## rondenning (Jul 29, 2008)

Please put me down for 2 sets, for my kits too!!!
Looks really good:thumbsup:, I will be watching @ Steve's and on this thread for the release date!!
:woohoo:
Ron


----------



## Admiral Nelson (Feb 28, 2002)

DMC-12 said:


> Holly deleted :thumbsup:
> 
> So will this be available soon


I wouldn't let the moderator see your language. http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/announcement.php?f=275&a=227

Holy Cow would better.


----------



## veedubb67 (Jul 11, 2003)

Great news Lou! I'm sure these will be as good as the other vinyl sets you've put out. Thanks again.

Rob


----------



## Lou Dalmaso (Jul 13, 2004)

*Update*

So I'm working on the outside now.
I put down the black pieces over the outside leaving only the thin strips where the silver goes exposed. (Pic1)

then i sprayed the aluminum color over the whole deal (pic 2)

I'll give it longer than normal before I remove the vinyl for two very important reasons

1) since there is going to be very little paint left when I remove the vinyl, I want to make sure its as dry as it can be. before I remove the peices, I'll scribe the lines with an X-acto knfe to brake the bonds between the paint I want to keep and the paint I want to remove.

B) Since there is only clear plastic under them, I'm not worried about peeling up anything underneath. (well there are those 4 roof sections, but I'm still not that concerned.)

more news as it happens...


----------



## F91 (Mar 3, 2002)

That almost looks too easy!!


----------



## phantom11 (Jul 12, 2007)

Whoo-hoooo! Go, Lou! Man if this all works out (and I'm sure it will), I'm not gonna touch my Chariot 'til I can get my mitts on a set of these templates from you.


----------



## Ductapeforever (Mar 6, 2008)

Were there any color episodes featuring the chariot, or are the first season black and white ones all that exist?


----------



## Lou Dalmaso (Jul 13, 2004)

^^ that's a good question. I'm going to comb thru my DVDs to see. I know the first eps were filmed in color (eventho they were broadcast in black and white) so that the effects shots could be recycled later.

I'm going on the words of folks who know better than I and whatever prop stills that show up as the last word on color choices


----------



## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

The Chariot was in color episiodes. Also some of the season B/W stuff was filmed in color and reused later on in color, although it was shown B/W at first.


----------



## Thor1956 (Aug 8, 2008)

Hi Guys,

I just joined the Forum and really amazed that you are talking about vinyl and the "old shacky hand", etc. etc.

Hasn't anyone heard of Silicone Mask? It's a thick bluish liquid in a turquoise-blue jar. It can be cut with either water or 70/30 IPA for air brushing or you can just brush it on.

Give it about 30 minutes to dry then just use a X-acto knife to trim it. Peel away what you don't want and spray paint. 

The only drawback I've found is that Silicone Mask has a tendancy to stick to painted surfaces. It can a bit tricky to use it for masking a second paint coat.

Dan


----------



## Thor1956 (Aug 8, 2008)

*Chariot Painting Solution*

Hi,

I just he forum, but I'm really amazed that everyone is talking about vinyl and "the old shacky hand", etc., etc.

Hasn't anyone heard of Lquid Silicone Mask?

I haven't bought a new bottle in about 20 years (I still have more than half a pint on hand), but this stuff is great. It can be cut with either water or 70/30IPA for an air-brush or brush it on straight from the bottle.

Give it about 30 minutes to dry, trim away the excess and you're ready to spray.

No muss, no fuss with tape that might come off or shacky lines from too much coffee.

Dan


----------



## Thor1956 (Aug 8, 2008)

Sorry about the 2nd post ... I wasn't sure the first had made it ...

Dan


----------



## Thor1956 (Aug 8, 2008)

To answer the question about the Chariot being shot in color ... check out the first episode of the 2nd Season ... Several REALLY good shot of the exterior and interior ...


----------



## F91 (Mar 3, 2002)

Yes, I've heard and used silicone masks in many forms. Let's just say, tape would be preferable to painting on a mask freehand for these frames. Cutting the silicone with an xacto will scar the clear styrene. I'm not that careful.


----------



## Lou Dalmaso (Jul 13, 2004)

*Ta-DAH!!!*

OK Guys,
Here it is. A little sloppy (but that's just me) I was rushing on this one just to prove it could be done.
I think I achieved the look I was going for. You can see a silver frame and looking thru, you can see the orange frame on the inside.

Again I bring up the cloudy windows are not my doing. the piece came that way.

enjoy. 

I'll write up the instructions this weekend


----------



## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

Lou Dalmaso said:


> Again I bring up the cloudy windows are not my doing. the piece came that way.


Airbrush the glass with a couple coats of Future and it will be crystal clear...


----------



## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

Personally I hate liquid masks. They tend to bead up or draw back from the edges on smooth, bare plastic. Getting a sharp edge is hard, and sharp corners really hard. Often when you peel it up you get a ragged edge. I have tried a TON of the stuff ranging from Windsor and Newton to hobby brands. I have some Humbrol Maskol that is my favorite, but I still use it rarely.

Masking the Chariot with Tamiya tape would be easy... it is all straight lines. You can also get Tamiya Tape in a really wide roll as well as thinner widths.


----------



## veedubb67 (Jul 11, 2003)

Lou,
Great job as usual. Can't wait for the painting masks!

That's the beauty of vinyl masks - they give you a nice hard line and sharp corners.

Rob


----------



## Thor1956 (Aug 8, 2008)

F91,

I guess it's a personel preference ... I'm lousey at tapping or trying to get the vinyl on without getting bubbles in it ...

Dan


----------



## F91 (Mar 3, 2002)

Dan, No problem, I suck at painting on masks! BTW, ever tried silly putty as a mask? Works great!


----------



## Thor1956 (Aug 8, 2008)

Silly Putty?????

I didn't even know it could still be found in the stores! The Toys-R-Us near me doesn't carry it.

But, no, I've never thought of it as a masking material.


----------



## gareee (Jan 1, 1970)

And of course, instead of buying a lot of silly putty, you could just make up a batch of your own, with the online recipe!

http://homeschooling.gomilpitas.com/extras/Gak.htm


----------



## F91 (Mar 3, 2002)

Ok, I don't know if I'm desperate enough to make it, and the application for using it on the Chariot would be very difficult, but there is no more versatile, easy and fast method of masking than using Silly Putty. Try it.


----------



## Sonett (Jul 21, 2003)

Lou,
Your Chariot looks great. I can hardly wait to get mine! Thanks for sharing with us.


----------



## gareee (Jan 1, 1970)

I had cultvman hold my pod till the chariot was in.. now I'm jonesin for both of them.. LOL!

If Moebius could get a great vehicle kit like this out once a month, I could easily fall into the habit of adding one a month to my collection!

(Hint, hint!)


----------



## Ductapeforever (Mar 6, 2008)

Gentlemen,
Try Bare Metal Foil as a masking agent. It's thin, plyable and molds around complex curves. If LIGHTLY burnished down around the edges there is no bleed under. After the paint had dried thoroughly and the foil has been lifted up , any adhesive residue may be removed with alcohol on a swab, careful around the paint as you don't want to attack the fresh paint. Also if used as intended, you can simulate the chrome framework on the outside. Great product !


----------



## xsavoie (Jun 29, 1999)

Would Aclad metalizers be good also.


----------



## Ductapeforever (Mar 6, 2008)

Sticky back felt in either orange or grey will work well as carpet on the floor of the Chariot. Available in most sewing and craft stores. Replacing the grill on the exterior of the motor drive housing with photo etch metal mesh will greatly enhance the realism of the kit.

Herb


----------



## Ductapeforever (Mar 6, 2008)

Any metalizer will work also. But the Bare Metal foil can be trimmed to size with a sharp x-acto and a sheet of glass to cut on. Then just put it in place, and burnish it down with a toothpick, and Bob's Your Uncle....instant chrome! No muss, no fuss, no mess.


----------



## Ductapeforever (Mar 6, 2008)

Detailing the drive sprocket , road wheels and hydrolic mechanism should be easy with thes pics for reference.


----------



## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

It looks like the vinyl (I had hoped they would be solid glue together links, no one uses vinyl any more) tracks are too tight so they deform around the drive sprocket.


----------



## Ductapeforever (Mar 6, 2008)

I can't wait to build my second Charoit as the "Landram" from Battlestar Galactica the original series. Here is my 1/35th scratchbuild before paint.


----------



## gareee (Jan 1, 1970)

Wonder if they can be stretched some?

Also, I wonder if 10 years from now, if they will rot away? I notice a lot of toy manufacturers are moving to silicon because of it's longevity an durability.

I have a Big Track tank toy from the 80's, and it's rubber drive wheels rotted away, but I was lucky, and one day found black silicon gaskets that fit it perfectly, so I bought 3 sets, just in case.. but the first set has lasted going on 10 years now, without any sign of rot or decay.


----------



## Lou Dalmaso (Jul 13, 2004)

*The future's so bright...yada,yada,yada*

another update, if you don't mind.

This is what a nice coating of future can do to even a cloudy piece of plastic (Geeze Lou, Will you stop whining about that stupid, cloudy bubble already?!!))

the orange vinyl is safely sealed in, so no worries of it peeling up. and the gloss silver looks even glossier.

After all of this was done I saw that I may have committed a boo-boo. The top back curved window is not painted in at all in the instructions, but something told me that I should close it off just like the one in the front. I guess i figured that nobody (or is that Mr. Nobody? a slight LIS in joke) would care to see the luggage rack. 

Anyway, I'm including the vinyl to close it off in the set for anybody who is of the similar opinion.

now to finish up the spotlights and.. then its CURTAINS for this Chariot!

Mooo-Wahh-Ha-Ha...


----------



## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

Thats a very impressive model. I can't wait to get mine Tuesday.


----------



## Lou Dalmaso (Jul 13, 2004)

<Professor Farnsworth>Good News, Everyone! the chariot painting template set is complete and the first shipment should be heading to Steve in the next day or so! </Professor Farnsworth>

chock full of glorious black and white photos and meticulously crafted instructions, these templates (in stunning orange and black) are the perfect thing you need to paint those pesky fine lines.

I've done my bit, now get out there and build!

that is all.


----------



## Bobman (Jan 21, 2001)

Really well done Lou. A fine looking build to me. Super clean work.

Bob


----------



## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

Ductapeforever said:


> Detailing the drive sprocket , road wheels and hydrolic mechanism should be easy with thes pics for reference.


Has anyone noticed the kit wheels look nothing like these wheels, nor do the tracks ?!? The real Snow Cat had smooth tires with no tread. At least back in the 60s. The photos show the correct wheels in the shot without the tracks fitted. This vehicle seems to have modern treaded tires replacing some worn out original tires. But all of the tires are fairly narrow, as is the space in the middle of the track. The Moebius tires are fat like big Micky Thompsons. They are smaller than 1/24 car tires but are more like 1/32 car tires versus the narrow wheels on the Snow Cat.


----------



## DMC-12 (Oct 7, 2007)

I was about to say the same the tires are wrong for a snow cat, and yes I would know I worked on em for years in Alaska while in the Air Force at Eielson AFB. The tires in the pictures the skinny ones are correct.

Every winter I got to play with a LMC snow cat aka just a newer version of the Tykol. We had a Tykol cat at the slope on base but is was a POS been driven way to HARD over the years but we still kept it running in case the LMC went down (never did)


----------



## Lou Dalmaso (Jul 13, 2004)

the kit tires I have are smooth...and a little narrower than the center section of the tread.


----------



## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

Lou Dalmaso said:


> the kit tires I have are smooth...and a little narrower than the center section of the tread.


Interesting. My kit has big, wide, treaded tires. They look like something from the back of a 71 GTO. I figured they were 1/32 car tires, chosed becuase they were in the ball park, and not parts engineered specifically for this kit (?)

I don't have my camera handy or I would take a photo of them.


----------



## Lou Dalmaso (Jul 13, 2004)

*tire picture*

here's mine. you can see thru the front of the track


----------



## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

Hmm maybe someone in the factory is pullin the ole switcheroo... my tires are treaded like Goodyear Polyglass LOL.


----------



## Dave Metzner (Jan 1, 1970)

Test shot tires did not have any tread pattern.
The production tires do have tread
Tires for this kit were specifically done to fit it.
Tread pattern is a generic pattern

Dave


----------



## Lou Dalmaso (Jul 13, 2004)

Ooohhhh, 

collector's item...


----------



## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

PM Moderator said:


> Test shot tires did not have any tread pattern.
> The production tires do have tread
> Tires for this kit were specifically done to fit it.
> Tread pattern is a generic pattern
> ...


Thats kind of odd. Any particular reason why tread was added since they shoud not have tread?

You see the same design wheel and track (just narrower) on the M56 Scorpion self propelled gun. FWIW


----------



## RogueJ (Oct 29, 2000)

I've been studying photos from various sources of the chariot and the miniatures used. I believe there might be some painting errors being done. From the photos I've seen it appears that the ceiling panel above the drivers' seats is orange when viewed from the outside. I'm not sure if the orange seen is from the inside looking out or painted on the outside. Also, it looks that the side ceiling panels (directly above the doors and ladder) are actually snap on covers on the inside viewed through the clear plexiglass from the outside and not painted on the outside. There are some shots of the interior that show the snap on covers. Plus in the photos you can see shadows upon the covers and glass has the same sheen as the clear areas. This last observation I'm not all that sure of, but I think the only cover ceiling panel is above the drivers station and not under the luggage rack. Take a look.

http://www.starshipmodeler.net/talk/viewtopic.php?t=65116

http://cloudster.com/Sets&Vehicles/Chariot/Chariotmodel.htm

Rogue


----------



## starseeker2 (Jun 13, 2008)

There is a possibility that there were 2 Chariots, one an off-road steel Chariot for location shots, the other a "light weight aluminum Chariot" that was used on the sound stage, possibly non-functioning??? There are many small but consistent differences in details of interior shots of the Chariot. Tire tread may be another of these differences.
There are some painting discrepancies between the Chariot miniature and the full size Chariot. Yes, there are many model painting errors but exactly how the full size Chariot was painted remains a bit of a mystery. Certainly the floor was not red or orange in either. The chassis may have been a Thiokol snow cat red orange. The Fox superstructure seems to be a redder red than the chassis.


----------



## jbond (Aug 29, 2002)

I'm pretty sure the Chariot is driven on the soundstage set in at least one episode--I seriously doubt they would have constructed a full size static Chariot when they could have just driven the operating vehicle onto the soundstage.


----------



## Ductapeforever (Mar 6, 2008)

I am at this point unsure of several references to "Cloudy" canopy parts in the Chariot, I picked up my kit today... found minimal damage from the tracks and tires, but imagine my joy and absolute glee upon finding crystal clear pristine polished clear parts, no scratches, flaws, or cloudiness, just beautifully clear! I have heard an unsubstanciated rumor from studio sources that the chariot sported an indoor/outdoor green carpet! I am trying to follow that up, so don't take that as cannon. I will report back as I hear more.


----------



## Bwain no more (May 18, 2005)

DTF; Lou was working with a test shot, not a production kit, so his clear parts were cloudy. The molds were fine tuned and polished before the kits were run, so the clear parts are improved.
Tom


----------



## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

There was one full size, operable Chariot. It was made for the pilot and then used for mostly in the first season. The outdoor scenes used in the first season were shot in color, although they were originally shown in b/w. No more location shots were ever done with the full size Chariot after the pilot/first season effects were done. So anything else later on was just re-using the original footage.

The full size Chariot was used on the sound stage with the Jupiter 2 mock up, etc.

There was more than one small model of the Chariot used for effects scenes. The small models (like the various Seaview miniatures) did not necessarily match each other or the full size vehicle.

The full size vehicle might have been repainted or tweaked like the Robot. The Robot in the first season did not have red claws, had silver spinenrs on the neck, had a silver chest plate, etc. Some color photos of the Chariot show the large center console where the scanner sits to be orange while others show silver.

The back of the chariot is a large hinged door although this is not replicated in the kit.

I have read two accounts of how the bodywork was done - one was that the Chariot was leased from a Ski Lodge and Fox made a new body. The other was that it was bought new and made at the Thiokol factory for the show (they did custom bodywork). After the show, the prop did wind up at a ski lodge. Some reports say its the one where the chassis came from in the first place.


----------



## phantom11 (Jul 12, 2007)

Hm; interesting color choices to ponder, but regardless, the pics from the site RogueJ linked to are some of THE best I've seen of the miniature. And those color pics of the full size chariot on the move outdoors are terrific as well! I'm just gonna say "Thanks" for those right now, then decide how I want to paint mine up.

And just how were the interior curtains hung, anyway???


And after taking another look at those screen caps, I gotta say you're right about the layout of panel painting on the interior. Looks like the area above the front seats was indeed the only area that was an actual opaque panel; you can clearly see snap on fabric pieces where the upper side panels are, and they are under the glass. Also, the area under the luggage is clear. Nice work on getting views that tell the story.


----------



## RogueJ (Oct 29, 2000)

Phantom,
I can't take any credit for the pics. That work was done by others. I just happened across them doing my research. I just thought they might come in handy to others who might not be aware of them.

Rogue

BTW, I just found this you tube link over at Starship Modeler. First season color footage of the Chariot. Some of the color photo shots were taken from this footage. In some of the overhead shots you can see that the panel above the drivers is orange.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XS5BQBOou1w&feature=related


----------



## starseeker2 (Jun 13, 2008)

So Fox never built the lightweight Chariot they blueprinted on 12/14/64 to "#6 Match Existing Steel Chariot"? I always assumed they just towed the lightweight version onto the soundstage like they did the robot, and filmed the interior scenes in it. Note in 5th Dimension the Chariot doesn't have glass. 
But they couldn't have filmed the early episodes in the off-road Chariot, could they? It's sides, etc, couldn't be wild to allow access by the cameras, lights, sound equipment, etc. 
The YouTube sample if from the "Lost in Space Forever" DVD. Well worth tracking down for the effects shots, esp if you have a big screen. Boy, I wish they would have used some of those in the series.
Edit: it would help if I attach the attachment...
'Nother edit: these are the plans I enlarged and traced and added the set decorations to for the drawings I posted in 
http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=181293&highlight=chariot 
The blueprint is from 1964 and there were some changes made by the time it reached the screen and I incorporated all of those and the set decorations.


----------



## RogueJ (Oct 29, 2000)

In Starseeker2's blueprints you can see the mention of the snap on light shields on the inside of the Chariot. So the roof is clear aside the the panel above the drivers.

Rogue


----------



## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

starseeker2 said:


> So Fox never built the lightweight Chariot they blueprinted on 12/14/64 to "#6 Match Existing Steel Chariot"? QUOTE]
> 
> Aside from that paper relic I have seen no other reference mentioning a second Chariot either in the various on line LiS sites or several very well done and researched books. Since a good many of the various props and filming miniatures survived including the operating Chariot, it is odd if there was a second vehicle it was never mentioned before and just disappeared. In theory one could be built but there are no direct references to it as far as I know.


----------



## rondenning (Jul 29, 2008)

I use to work in Machine Shops and when I look at the blueprint notes you show, this is showing revisions to the Chariot, not requesting a new chariot to be built.
These are just the General Notes that tell what revisions to make to the existing Chariot.
Look in the Specifications area under where it says sheet 1 of 2, below where it says CHARIOT you will see that the next line specifies this to be "REV. of Thiokol "off highway vehicle". 
These are blueprints for the REVISION of the Thiokol off highway vehicle, and were probably made after the show got the "go ahead" from the network.
The revisions stated in the General Notes are for adding stationary handholds @ several locations, but most importantly for the prop department to "wild" both ends, both sides, and the top of the Chariot(to provide for removal/repositioning of ends, sides, top of vehicle to allow access for filming), #4 states providing necessary door hardware to make this possible,
#5 in the notes just specifies the use of lightwieght materials wherever possible, and #6 is simply stating to match it all to the existing steel chariot.
Ron


----------



## rondenning (Jul 29, 2008)

:woohoo:
I just ordered 2 sets of painting masks from Steve for my Chariot kits!!!!
Let the games begin!!
:devil:Ron:devil:


----------



## starseeker2 (Jun 13, 2008)

That makes sense. After the location filming was done with the Chariot, that it was revised and altered to allow for filming of interiors and use on a sound stage. Re-done in lightweight materials and with wild sections to match the way it looked originally. I like that idea, and it explains why there's never been sighting of a second Chariot. Tho if a second one was built as a partial or as a prop, like the sonic washer and force field and all the other props it could be in a landfill somewhere. Sigh.
Edit: Yet there are some odd things on the blueprint. It says "Matching bucket seats as directed", "Tractor to match FS 'Thiokol' Vehicle Carriage", "Match Purchase Spotlights". If this is a (rather total) revision to the existing steel Chariot, what happened to all the parts of the existing steel Chariot? Basically everything from the chassis up was replaced. Does that make sense? Of course this is only a blueprint, and there is no evidence anywhere that a lightweight Chariot was ever built. Maybe they didn't go ahead with either the revision of the existing Chariot or build a prop version. No, we know there had to be a revision somewhere. We can see that the Chariot was filmed with both wild sections and removable clear plastic. 
Another odd thing on this blueprint is the dates. Revision 1, adding curtains and Detail and Solar Antenna is dated 12=14=64 and the date in the title box, which looks like its been erased (it's much whiter than the blue surround, as is the background where it says "New Lightweight" over the Chariot title, is later, 4/29/65. The series was just a few months from airing at that point. 
Where's a time machine when you need one?


----------



## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

The Chariot was only used on location once, for the pilot episode footage.


----------



## X15-A2 (Jan 21, 2004)

The blueprint reference to to "existing steel Chariot" means the base Thiokol snow-cat vehicle that was to be modified, not another complete "Chariot". I know it is confusing but this is just a form of short-hand used by the art department at Fox. They only built one and it was never rebuilt with different materials.

I had to laugh at the post suggesting that the Chariot could not have had "wild sections" or walls. Come on! That welded metal frame is the perfect structure to hang wild sections on and even without purpose-built "wild sections", all they needed to do was remove the plex panels.


----------



## AJ-1701 (May 10, 2008)

Lou Dalmaso said:


> <Professor Farnsworth>Good News, Everyone! the chariot painting template set is complete and the first shipment should be heading to Steve in the next day or so! </Professor Farnsworth>
> 
> chock full of glorious black and white photos and meticulously crafted instructions, these templates (in stunning orange and black) are the perfect thing you need to paint those pesky fine lines.
> 
> ...


Just ordered mine today... :thumbsup: Got an email to say my chariot is on the way so I figure why not


----------



## starseeker2 (Jun 13, 2008)

X15-A2 said:


> The blueprint reference to to "existing steel Chariot" means the base Thiokol snow-cat vehicle that was to be modified, not another complete "Chariot". I know it is confusing but this is just a form of short-hand used by the art department at Fox. They only built one and it was never rebuilt with different materials./QUOTE]
> 
> I don't know. Do you really think they set up the whole Chariot on a sound stage for the Hungry Sea shoot for two or three days and aimed fire hoses and buckets of water into it. I can't see them doing that with the Black Beauty or Batmobile but I know their inner workings were much more delicate than a Snow Cats. Still, motor, gasoline, enough water that June Lockhart said "Who do I have to be nice to to get out of this job?", wiring, electricals.
> If it weren't for you, nobody would know that the 10' Jupiter 2 ever existed. Couldn't there have been a dummy Chariot? The note was "Match existing steel Chariot". Yes, that could be match this body TO that chassis, I see what you're saying.


----------



## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

There was only one full size chariot. Doing water shots with it wouldn't be hard. Most of the scenes in Hungry Sea anyway (except, obviously the interior shots) were done with models.

An odd nit pick in the episode is when Don slips off the roof in the whirlpool and everyone thinks he fell overboard... come on... the whole Chariot is glass and no one saw him dangling outside thrashing about?


----------



## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

djnick66 said:


> There was only one full size chariot. Doing water shots with it wouldn't be hard. Most of the scenes in Hungry Sea anyway (except, obviously the interior shots) were done with models.
> 
> An odd nit pick in the episode is when Don slips off the roof in the whirlpool and everyone thinks he fell overboard... come on... the whole Chariot is glass and no one saw him dangling outside thrashing about?


Thought that myself for a long time, then the DVD's came out. Look close, the gun rack is in front of the window, blocking a view of Don from straight on. From the sides? That's an Irwin Allenizem!


----------



## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

Maybe I missed it. Is anybody using Bare Metal Foil for the outside frame?


----------



## Thor1956 (Aug 8, 2008)

Already done ... It's a slow, tedious process, but I think it looks Ok.

I'm holding off doing the lower edge until I mate the canopy to the upper body.

I'll post a view pics later today ... batteries in the camera died 

EDIT: I didn't get a chance to get new batteries for my camera. I had to get some "Honey-Do's" done  BUT, I was able get to a few blurry shots with my C-Phone. They're not great, but they are seeable and do show the BMF.

You guys can see the pics at http://photos.hobbytalk.com/showgallery.php/cat/500/ppuser/50787


----------



## gareee (Jan 1, 1970)

Rechargeables, baby!


----------



## Opus Penguin (Apr 19, 2004)

Y3a said:


> Maybe I missed it. Is anybody using Bare Metal Foil for the outside frame?


I plan on attempting this. Just waiting until I am ready to order the sheets.


----------



## Thor1956 (Aug 8, 2008)

gareee said:


> Rechargeables, baby!


LOL ... These are rechargable. I think they're to the point that I've recharged them too many times ...


----------



## drmcoy (Nov 18, 2004)

Thanks for posting pics -- I am starting in on this and I have both the vinyl mask from Culttvman AND bare metal foil.

i THINK I'm gonna use orange vinyl for inside canopy and the bare metal foil for all the silver struts...I've never used the foil before, and some of those struts are pretty dang thin, but I figure it's gonna be painstaking either way, and the foil may be more forgiving than all of the masking that it would otherwise require.

Look forward to more shots once your camera is back in action, Thor.


----------



## Thor1956 (Aug 8, 2008)

drmcoy said:


> Thanks for posting pics -- I am starting in on this and I have both the vinyl mask from Culttvman AND bare metal foil.
> 
> Look forward to more shots once your camera is back in action, Thor.


The vinyl definitely made the inside a lot easier!! :woohoo:

Many Thanks to Lou for his Orange masking. :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

As for the BMF ... the only thing I can say is take your time. I found that cutting off a 1/4" wide strip across the length and applying it was much easier than trying to put on one long strip. Also, do the corners first. Think of aluminum corner molding on a RV. Once the corners were done, the long strips were a breeze ... all things considered. I know from experience that the corner molding on a RV goes on last, but in this case ... do the corners first.

To tell the truth, this was my first time using BMF in this type of application. I read all the info on the BMF website and just took a shot at applying it. I'll definitely know more when I do my other Chariot kit for my son. (Although, I think I might let my son have the first "Test Case" and I'll take the next one )

Now all I need is to get a bottle of _Future_ and seal both the vinyl and BMF.


----------



## j2man (Jun 18, 1999)

Hey Lou, can I get a set of those mask done in Pumpkin Orange? That is the color all my other parts on the chariot are.


----------



## Lou Dalmaso (Jul 13, 2004)

^^J2man,
I wish I could but I'm limited in color selection by what the manufacturer offers. Since I buy the vinyl by the roll, I had to think what was most cost efficient.

When I was thinking this out, I chose the most "stereotypic" orange and something that would go with the "international orange" that I figured most folks would be using. 

"The Needs of the Many.." and all that.

that being said, if you can show me what you pumpkin color is, maybe I can find a scrap that might work.


----------



## j2man (Jun 18, 1999)

Here is a pic, but like all computer screens, the color may vary to you.


----------



## Lou Dalmaso (Jul 13, 2004)

pm sent


----------



## j2man (Jun 18, 1999)

PM Responded


----------



## j2man (Jun 18, 1999)

I don't know how you did it Lou! It is a perfect match to my Krylon Pumpkin! I was so excited, I've already applied all the strips to see my end result. It's amazing. I'll post some pics later as now I can see where the silver needs some touch up. LOL. Thanks again, you are the stuff!


----------



## Lou Dalmaso (Jul 13, 2004)

Cool!
very happy the color is a match!

let's see those pictures!:thumbsup:


----------

