# Brushless super sport



## Joe Novak

Just wondering if anyone else has had any problems with this new system from novak? I bought mine and installed it,pulled the trigger and the thing went up in smoke! Unit was very fast for about three seconds.


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## R C king

What car did you put it in ? and i heard my buddy had the same problam he sent it to novak and they fixed it.


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## Joe Novak

I installed it in a losi xxx-t pulled the trigger and then it smoked. One of my buddies bought one from the same hobby shop and his lasted about 15minutes then it smoked. Mine is at novak now,I am just waiting to get it back.


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## R C king

They were new right?


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## Maverick Racing

Joe Novak said:


> I installed it in a losi xxx-t pulled the trigger and then it smoked. One of my buddies bought one from the same hobby shop and his lasted about 15minutes then it smoked. Mine is at novak now,I am just waiting to get it back.


Thats because the last good product Novak made was the C2....This is the same thing that happened with the Gt7 when it came out. If i were you, Id get it back, sell it, and wait for the remedied version.


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## R C king

:thumbsup:


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## Joe Novak

Yes I bought everything new. I just hope that they get this problem figured out and fixed very fast!


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## Guest

The one thing I've heard from the guys at my local track is this. The current software on the speedo doesn't have a protective feature to turn off the motor before you initiate setup mode.

A lot of guys would turn it on and have it go up in smoke instantly. It would hit Forward and Reverse back and forth so quick it burns up the speedo. (Because it hadn't been set up with the radio yet.)

Their new software will disable the output to the motor until you have radio on and you've gone through setup mode. This is supposedly what has been burning up so many speedos.

Three guys at our track had the same issue, and all three have been told they would get the new software rev. once it's returned.

Randy Clements
SLC, UT


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## RickRussellTX

Does the old rule of "unplug your motor while you setup your speed control" no longer apply?


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## Guest

The speedo comes factory wired to the motor and battery connector. So no, I'm assuming they don't ask you to unplug the motor anymore for programming.

I even skimmed through the manual on Novak's website, and I don't see where they ask you to make sure and desolder the motor before you set it up.

Anyways, they are fixing the problem, so that is a good thing. They seem to be a good company -- go USA!


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## RickRussellTX

That's very odd. I wonder if the correct operation of the motor/ESC is dependent on the length of the motor wires? 

If so, it could have bad implications for some vehicles where the motor and ESC have to be rather far apart.


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## Guest

No you can shorten or lengthen the three motor wires to whatever length you need. That's why they have solder posts on both the motor and speedo, for easy wire replacement. However, the bundle of sensor wires (6 thin ones) are pre-terminated at a set length with plastic connectors at both ends. I am unsure if you can buy different lengths of sensor wires -- the ones that ship with it are 9" long, as are the motor wires (9").

I've been able to see three of these systems installed in three different cars. (All of them touring cars - a Tamiya EVO III, a Losi XXX-S, and Tamiya TA-04.) I believe all three had shortened the motor wires for their installation, but had kind-of looped/bundled the sensor wire's extra length since you don't need 9" of wire in a touring car.

My one comment is that they run really quiet -- especially on that EVO 3 -- it has a really quiet drivetrain.

Randy


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## tommurray

*Set-up Button*

Hello All,
I have had my brushless system for a while now, so far it has been outstanding. I too had the problem of it shorting out when I first tried it due to the fact that I did not follow directions....
After turning on the transmiter, YOU MUST DEPRESS THE SET-UP BUTTON WHILE YOU TURN ON THE SPEED CONTROL.... 
Since then, I have ran 15 or so packs thru it, with no problems.
Novak(Charlie) was more than helpful with the situation.
Currently I have it in a Gear-box sprint car, and with the loose dirt conditions that we race, I think that the brushless system (sealed) is the only way to go. 
Only time will tell if the endurance of the whole unit, is sound and I feel that by the middle of summer we'll all have more feedback to give on this system. And by next year we will be saying you remember those brushless motors we used to run with a laugh... Just like we are doin with the Nicad/ NMH battery issue now.. 
E-Mail me for pic's of it in the sprint car...
Thanks,
Tom Murray
Jacksonville,IL
[email protected]


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## tommurray

Hello All,
The rain finally stopped and we had our first dirt oval/ off-raod race of the season.
The Novak Brushless system scores its first win's of the season at Jacksonville R/C Speedway, In Jacksonville,IL...Saturday night May 31st.
They are:
Electric Sprint Class winner, Tom Murray
Electric Modified off-road winner, Joe Ryan..

There were 6 Novak SS Brushless systems run that night, 3 in the sprint class, and 4 in the Modified off-road classes.
All ran extremely well!! 
Thanks,
Tom Murray
Jacksonville,IL.
[email protected]


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## Buff

What type of offroad cars were using the system? 2 wheel, 4 wheel, truck....etc.?

What exactly was the performance in each one? Compared to any mod motors these people would normally run?

Just by the actual usage of this system by the public, isn't impressing me with all the burnouts they apparently are having considering if you're not supposed to have the motor wired up, or to be sure you have your finger pressing the setup button before you turn the thing on, then why wouldn't they make more of a notification of this knowing that by not taking these crucial steps, $250 gets flushed right down the torlet? Or am I wrong?

I had contemplating buying one of these things myself just for s**ts and giggles in any r/c car I might have laying around which is why I was inquiring. $250 is a lot of money to be spending on something that might not be guaranteed to work.

I've noticed over the years that Novak seems to make products that either work great and succeed enormously, or they seem to fall flat on their face...such as the older Novak recievers which used to be some SERIOUS junk--remember the chrome ones??! (for the most part, not saying that at least SOME people haven't had some luck with them). They seem to have the problem straightened out now with their newest line of recievers though. 

Then again, I could be wrong....it's just an objective opinion. :roll:


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## aedriver

well i'd also like to try a brushless but i heard there not roar legal is this true?? and buff just as a sideline my old novak chrome receiver is goin stong!!
-matt :lol:


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## tommurray

Hello,
The Novak Brushless systems are being used in 2 wheel drive trucks, 4 MFXXX-t's and one team T3. And there are 5 being used in sprint cars.

Most of the drivers say they have more Hp than a 10X2. The motors unlike the brushed ones have not needed any maintenance. Most of us have not had them out of the car..

I have had over 40 battery packs thru mine, and the motor still feels as strong as the day I got it. So by the amount of trucks and cars that we have them in, if there were any probelms I think that we would have seen something by now.. 

But only time will tell, with technolgy as new as this, there might be some issues down the road, but so far so good.

One guy has had a complaint though, he snapped a mip cvd in to..LOL

It clearly states in the instructions the set-up procedure for the speed control, and they have it posted on the web site.

To me the wait was well worth it. Awesome power and reliability so far, and no maintenance...........

Thanks,
Tom Murray
Jacksonville,IL
[email protected]


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## Shiloh

The Novak brushless was the second brushless I have owned. The first was a 6 turn brushless based on the Hacker design (sensorless). The 6 turn kit was actually noticably faster than the Novak. But the Novak is actually drivable. The 6 turn brushless kit has very poor throttle response, and that makes it very hard to drive on a track. You have to be really "on" to drive it. The Novak is just as smooth as any brushed motor setup, and that makes the Novak a lot better for racing on a track. On the track, you cannot tell the difference between the Novak brushless and a 10 turn KR. It's really that smooth.

Compared to my Reedy KR 10x2, the Novak feels just as fast and just as smooth. The KR gets slower as the race day wears on, due to comm wear. If I don't periodically cut the comm, the KR eventually starts falling off. Admittedly, the KR lasts much longer between comm cuts than other mods that I have owned, but it still needs maintainance every 3-6 runs in order to run well. The Novak needs no maintainance. So it runs just as solid every run as it did the last run. So I can focus on chassis setup instead of motor maintainance.

The Novak is not ROAR legal, but both summer time tracks around here allow it, so ROAR legal is not a big deal right now. The two winter tracks may or may not allow it. There has not been a verdict either way at this point, but winter racing does not begin for several months. I'll be very happy if I can run the Novak during the winter, but I still have my Reedy KR to fall back on if I cannot run the Novak.

For US$250, the Novak brushless kit is a winner. When I bought the 6 turn sensorless brushless kit two years ago, I paid US$500 for it. So US$250 seems like a smoking deal to me. Additionally, a good mod motor and a good controller cost nearly US$250. Once you toss in the cost of spare brushes, an extra armature, and a comm lathe, the brushed combo actually costs a lot more than the Novak.


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## DynoMoHum

What about the size of the Novak? It looked pretty big to me...

Since I really only run Oval... makes me wonder how far over weight I'd be if I tried to run it... I strugled to keep my car under weight all last season, and I had nothing unusualy large/heavy in my car...


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## Ducklake

I think the Novak's are Awesome, not as fast as other Brushless, but still fast, and worry free  

I have 2 of them in my E-Maxx, runs very good.


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## Shiloh

The Novak brushless controller is about the size of an LRP v7.1 controller. The motor is the same size as any 540 size motor. It looks bigger because the can part goes all the way to the end, where the typical stock or mod brushed motor would have brush hoods. But it is still the same overall size. The three 9 inch long wires add some weight and you can reduce that length as needed. I really do not think the overall weight is noticably more than any brushed combo. The big weight item is always the batteries, and the 3300 cells are very heavy. My six cell GP3300 packs are about one full ounce heavier than any other 3000 packs I own. If you want to drop an ounce, switch to the UM3000 cells. Personally, I think the GP3300 run better, but the UM3000 cells are worth trying if weight is a primary concern.

I've never raced oval, so I have no idea how much weight will impact oval. In mod TC, I personally am not concerned about total weight. Trying to get closer to the min weight does not seem to affect the lap times much in touring car. Some of the fastest local racers drive bricks with wheels. I am very concerned with weight distribution (front to back as well as side to side). In my touring cars, I go out of my way to get the weight identical on each of the four wheels, even if it means adding mass to the car. On my XRay, I have three batteries toward the back on one side and three toward the front on the other side. Then I creatively move the rest of the electronics around and add weights as needed. I've got it perfectly balanced front to back and side to side. When the weight is perfectly balanced, changes to car setup seem to work most effectively.


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## Shiloh

I had my XRay Evo II with the Novak brushless kit at the track today. I let several friends drive it. Everybody loved it. It drove extremely smooth every run. It got plenty of run time in practice. Everybody said they thought it ran as good as any other 10 turn mod motor out there that they had driven. Everybody agreed it was as smooth as any good brushed mod motor available. The Novak system is probably the best club mod racing system on the market. It's smooth, offers power comparable to a 10 turn mod, and is maintainance free. What more can anybody really ask for?


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## low10s

i have been wondering one thing, if you want to do some bashing so you have to let it cool between packs? thanks


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## Shiloh

The Novak brushless motor and controller were actually cooler than my batteries after every run. So heat is not nearly as much of an issue as with brushed mod setups. If you have several packs, you should be able to run them back to back with the Novak kit without overheating the controller or motor. There is a thermal protection circuit built into the controller. If it is running, then it is not overheated. If it does get too hot, it will shut the motor off until it cools back down. This is good news for bashers.

I hammered on mine today on the track during practice. I ran a 3300 pack flat a few times, and the motor and controller were still not hot. Trust me, I was not babying the Novak system at all. It was flying past nitro and electric racers during practice like a rocket with wheels. Not a hint of overheating. The Novak was smooth, consistent, and trouble free every run with no signs of overheating.


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## low10s

thanks bro, my son has a xxxnt and i cant bash around with him with my xxxt, so i was thinking about getting a nitro truck or the brushless. later


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## tommurray

*Brushless A Success!!!*

Hello All,
The Novak System has been a total success here in our area.
The winners in all of the Mod Classes Dirt oval and off-road have been with the brushless system...With No failure's..
Also won the $50 to win sprint race..
Thanks
Tom Murray
Jacksonville,IL
[email protected]


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## low10s

i talked to novak today and i am going brushless. i hope my xxxt wont be dissapointed. later dudes


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## tommurray

*Still going strong!!!*

Hello All,
Just wanted to keep the discussion going, the novaks are really taking off here in central Illinois...

They have won all of the electric modified sprint car (Oval)race's...

And they have won all but one, of the Electric Modified off-road races.

And thats at 2 different tracks, Jacksonville R/C speedway, in Jacksonville, Illinois.
And Allens R/C speedway's in Rochester, Illinois.
And there have been no failures with the Novak system....

Thanks,
Tom Murray
Jacksonville,IL.
[email protected]


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## aedriver

thanks tom! keep us posted on how these things hold up !!!!!


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## Buddykitchen

I work for my LHS, and I was the 2nd one in my area to get the new Novak system. Since then, we've sold a large number of them, and I haven't seen any problems with them yet. One caveat, though.. follow the setup instructions exactly! You will burn it up, as many of you have learned.

Had mine in a XXX-T MF edition, and could run with the 1/10 nitro guys! :tongue:


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## carsonb

I would like to hear any pros oe cons on using the Novak Brushless on a Losi XXX-4.


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## TT_Vert

hey guys, have any of you noticed any throttle response problems primarily from a standing stop? It seems to take a second or so before the car actually starts to move. Even if i gradually hit the throttle it takes a second. Everything is soldered and plugged in tighly and correctly.
Thanks
Dave


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## crazy8

I too bought a new novak SS and it failed (no smoke) just wouldn't work (except servo). Tried everything...called Novak and had to send it back as they did not have any idea of what the problem was. I never installed it in my xxx-4 just set it up and it worked once. Turned it off and back on and no red light or anything and after about 5 seconds of power the motor would make a hum and the armature would twich.


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## Intellion

> I would like to hear any pros oe cons on using the Novak Brushless on a Losi XXX-4.


I just recently got a Novak SS5800 brushless system for my Losi XXX-4, I gotta tell ya that *I LOVE IT!!!!!!*

It's the kind of top notch speed I normally pay big $$ for to keep running at that speed, yet it costs me nothing pack after pack after pack...etc. My run times are long, the speed is really high, more torque then any motor I have ever owned, smooth control, forward/reverse/brake, and I have not touched it since dropping into my car. Except to try different programs of course.

I had to tighten my front and rear diffs, as well as my slipper. They were all adjusted to my 17 turn modified which was fine. But they were far too loose for the massive torque of the SS5800. The diffs even slipped when the throttle was punched with the car in the air! I also had to tighten the belt, as it skipped a bit on hard braking, and the belt has also come off the middle pully a few times. I'm considering trying to enlarge the diameter of the outside runner of the middle pully, so the belt cannot come off so easily. It only seems to happen when I go reverse-->forward.

In a nuttshell, I'm extremly pleased and never going back to brushed setups. Here's a picture of my XXX4, and another of the brushless system in it. I left the wires long so I could easily move it to my other cars when I want to.








and


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## rcgen

I finally ran/raced my brushless 4300ss. It was on a flat oval asphault racing along with 19t truck class. I used the first profile and was wondering which profile is everyone else using. I was bearly able to keep up with fastest 19t and the motor was still ice cold...I ran out of space to put a larger pinion. I am driving a Hyperdrive 0700 and had a 110 spur which I have change to a 100. Hopefully that will give me more gear but cannot test it this week due to hurricane Frances.

Thanks in advance guys/gals


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## kevinm

TT_Vert said:


> hey guys, have any of you noticed any throttle response problems primarily from a standing stop? It seems to take a second or so before the car actually starts to move. Even if i gradually hit the throttle it takes a second. Everything is soldered and plugged in tighly and correctly.
> Thanks
> Dave


I have seen a couple of motors that had a problem with the rotor coming loose from the shaft. Apparently it's a press fit that sometimes isn't tight enough. Check to see if it's loose on the shaft. The first time I saw this, the driver fixed it with some type of Lock-tite, then we discovered that it wasn't in the right spot on the shaft. The rotor has to be close enough to the sensors in the end of the motor for them to read the position of the rotor.


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## LUGWRENCH

Intellion,

I notice you have your speedo/motor wires wraped around your antenna. Any glitching problems? 

Better yet, has anyone experienced any glitch problems........Thanks,


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## Intellion

Yeah, I was a bit concerned with the wiring setup when I did it. I didn't want to shorten the wires because I may switch this system between my XXX4, and my XXX 2wd buggy. So I figured I would just jam them all in there and see how it does.

Turns out it works just fine. I can leave the radio off with the car turned on and plugged in. No glitches so far, even with other people driving around me. When driving, I did see some glitches at first when the car got around 100' away from me, but I replaced my transmitter batteries and that cleaned it right up. I have a cheap Futaba radio now that I bought from the local Hobby store for around $45 and it's a solid setup.

I'm still aware that this setup could cause glitches, and I'm paying attention to it, but so far it looks solid even though I have the wires all jammed in there.

BTW, I just took my car to the local track this weekend in Vancouver Washington. It was way too fast to keep the throttle fully opened on that track. They had the track setup like an oval outside, with openings to a racecourse inside. So I did a bit of oval, and a bit of tight turns. The car was so fast around the oval I could barely keep it down. Pack after Pack the car was fast, had that huge brushless torque, and nice long run times. It was a practice day, so no huge pressure. Some of the other locals at the track were checking out my setup, they could not believe the torque and RPM's coming out of that setup.


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## Bob Wright

rcgen said:


> I finally ran/raced my brushless 4300ss. It was on a flat oval asphault racing along with 19t truck class. I used the first profile and was wondering which profile is everyone else using. I was bearly able to keep up with fastest 19t and the motor was still ice cold...I ran out of space to put a larger pinion. I am driving a Hyperdrive 0700 and had a 110 spur which I have change to a 100. Hopefully that will give me more gear but cannot test it this week due to hurricane Frances.
> 
> Thanks in advance guys/gals


We ran the 5800 at the ROAR Oval Nats and I was geared 47/112 and turned the same lap times as 19T on a 366' tri-oval.That's 3 teeth lower that what a normal gear ratio is for 19T.One of our local's has been playing around with the 4300 and he runs 2 laps faster that a brushed stock motor and 5 laps less than a 19T motor track records.


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## rcgen

Thanks Bob,

Well last Friday (rainout) I was practicing with another 19t truck and was on his tail keeping up but didn't have enough to pass him. It will be hard to convince the guys that the 4300 is comparable to a 27t stock motor. To me its more like the trinity 21t spec motor. How are you guys dialing in for some breaks? I am having to let off way to early in the turns or is this normal. It feels like I have no breaks. I am currently using the first profile.


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## Bob Wright

I only had about 10 runs on the thing as it was a loaner from Novak for the weekend.We drive wide open all the time so brakes were not an issue.I'm assuming that by adjusting the throttle settings on your radio that you could dial in some coast brake.


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## AJS

Bob did you go ahead and purchase a systsem?


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## Collinsworth24

Well guys I just want to add my 2 cents and say this thing is awesome. I run oval here in Macon, GA @ Echeconnee Superspeedway. The run line is 305 feet and is slightly banked. We had a special 100 enduro race on memorial day. It was a $10 entry fee and the winner got $50. Now if you won and completed all 100 laps the track kicked in an extra $50 for a total of $100 payout. There were 10 cars in this race. The one twist that was not revealed until 2 minutes before race time and that was there were not going to be any turn marshalls. With a huge grass infield that frequently sucks car into it. Anyway I was lucky enough to win this thing with PLENTY of battery left. I ran lap times from 6.7 - 7.5 seconds and was running the same lap times at the end as the beginning. The fast guys ran out of battery with 3 laps left. The car is geared at 125/22. Stock Profile


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## Bob Wright

I'm waiting to see what version they are going to run at Trackside.As soon as Scotty decides I'll have one.


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## Intellion

*another update*

Just another update here...

I have put around 50+ battery packs through that brushless motor now. The top end and torque appear no different. The efficientcy appears no different. The system still drives just as smooth as day 1, and it has not come out of my car for any maintenance whatsoever.

I'm definately used to the feel of brushless now. Something that I didn't totally expect is the impact of batteries on this motor setup. The top end RPM seems nearly the same no matter if I use my crappy NiCad's, or my good NiMH batteries. But the torque of the motor is extremely dependant on the charge and battery type. It seems like the brushless motor is so torquey (is that a real word?) that batteries is now my only bottleneck.

If I was running only 1400 MAH cells, I would probably leave the gearing exactly where it is (stock recommended setup in the instructions) but if I was running only high quality NiMH cells, I would feel very comfortable adding 3-4 teeth to the pinion.

I've been to the track several times now, and all I worry about is driving skills, car setup, and batteries. Worrying about the motor is just not there anymore. I'M FREE!!!!


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## Ballblazer

*Drag Breaks*

I've tried each of the six settings and the system seems to have zero drag breaks. I have a Mars EX-1 transmiter and was wondering if there are any settings on this radio to give me some Drag Breaks with the system. Any ideas would be appreciated.

Thanks,

VB


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## Bob Wright

Try moving your thorttle trim to the + side and moving the end point adjustment for the brakes closer to center.


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## Ballblazer

*Thanks for the help*

Bob,

Thanks for the help, the throttle trim adjustment did the trick.

VB


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## SLOWPOKE

AJ
Do you have a 4300 brushless, it sounds like they may run them on March 5 & 6th at HobbyPlex in omaha. It may be unsanctioned but sounds like there is enough interest.


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## AJS

They are sanctioned as of January 1 as a Roar Class and yes I have one as does Charlie Moon and we are planning on running them at the regional. Ran them this weekend and had a ball. We had one racer who ordered a 4300 and ran it and no one could figure out for the longest time why his car was so much faster than anyone else's, as it turns out it had a 5800 in the box not a 4300, so I guess we need to check. 

It's a great 2nd class, put a battery in, check the tires and go racing.

See you at the regionals.


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## cowboy

*great time racing with you guys*

Hey AJ

Had a great time racing with you guys.. I liked the BL enough i'm going to set one car with the 4300 and the other with the 5800.. see ya all in march..

cowboy :thumbsup:


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## AJS

Looking forward to it.

AJ


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## philb1

Also a good 3rd class, with 4300 or 5800 motor


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## dangerousdave

I have 2 4300 novak systems and they both work great!!! 
They worked right from the start and are running fantastic!!!

Dave D


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## Trixter

*How much does it WEIGH?*

Could someone tell me what the weight difference between the 5800 motor is and a typical brushed MOD motor?

Thanks


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## Trixter

Top of page


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## hankster

The Novak is 6.5 oz. Mod motors depend on the wind... somewhere around 6 oz.


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## SLOWPOKE

I have a Novak 4300 Brushless SuperSport and have encountered something unusual when programming the speed control. I have two Futuba 3PDF radios, one programs just fine when I go into the setup mode, the other radio is not usable as the Novak just will not go into the setup mode with this radio. I have changed TX & RX crystals and still no results. Has anyone else had a similar experience or any input on this situation. The radio in question works fine with several other LRP speed controls.


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## CharlieS

Hey Guys, 

Sometimes radios have "Low" throttle output, that's meaning not enough throw. Try resetting the throttle End-Points and redoing the setup, also you can try reversing the throttle channel.

Drop us a line if you'd like
[email protected]

Thanks
Charlie


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## patcollins

Just got one, going to try running it in the open class this summer in my T3 (might upgrade to T4 later). Its going to be a very large track where 8th scale buggies also run.


I keep reading its not equilivant to the 10 turn Novak claims, but can it keep pace with a 12 turn?


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## DynoMoHum

In 4 cell... they are just a tick faster then a 19turn with adjustable timing. Not sure about how they do with 6 cells, but I'm told that they do indeed outproform a 19 turn when they have 6 cells worth of voltage. I've also heard in the neighborhood of a 12 turn when 6 cells are used, but I have no real data that I've seen to back this up.

My speculation about why this would be so much differnt between 4 cells and 6 cells is that it's due to the electronics in the controler. It's my belief that the SS controler is not very effcient at very high current rates... say 40 amps or higher... In four cell oval racing we gear up so far that we are often averaging near 30 amps, and in slow corners we are probably demanding that the motor operate at 40 amps or higher at least on some ocasions, and I think the controler is acting like a current limiter at those high amp rates, and therfore restricts the power significantly... 

Now why wouldn't this same thing happen at 6 cells? well it probably does, but I suspect that the typical racer doesn't use all the power that would be available at 35 amps and 7.2 volts... and when they load the motor to the point where it's pullng 40 amps or more they probably still have more then enough power even with some limiting that may be occuring.... I also suspect that 6 cell racers don't quit average 30 amps, perticularly when they race off road....

My guess is that if given a more stout controler the 5800 Novak motor would put out more power at high amp loads then it currently does with the SS controler.

Which begs the question... when will Novak or other company put out a controler that can operate at say 60 amps as effciently as it will at 30 amps? or in ohter words... when will we start to see more competition level controlers available?


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## kevinm

patcollins said:


> Just got one, going to try running it in the open class this summer in my T3 (might upgrade to T4 later). Its going to be a very large track where 8th scale buggies also run.
> 
> 
> I keep reading its not equilivant to the 10 turn Novak claims, but can it keep pace with a 12 turn?


It really depends on the track. I ran one all summer in a TC3, and it was competitive with 10-12 turn motors. The 10 or less turn motors usually had more punch off the corners, but couldn't run a tall enough gear to really go much faster than the Novak at the end of the straight. (At least not without REALLY BIG batteries). In fact, the brushless motors won the A-main more than brushed mods. Running off-road, I doubt that you'll be giving up anything to brushed mods, since traction is usually a limiting factor. And you WON'T have to work on the motor between heats.


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## patcollins

kevinm said:


> Running off-road, I doubt that you'll be giving up anything to brushed mods, since traction is usually a limiting factor. And you WON'T have to work on the motor between heats.


Thats what I am hoping for. There have been times I ran a stock motor in modified....


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## DynoMoHum

Anyone know how they stand up to modified brushe motors in say a touring car on carpet?


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## David Washburn

hey did anyone hear about that super sport plus brushless/brushed esc novak made


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## DynoMoHum

I know Tower has a listing that is named... "Novak Super Sport Plus Brushless/Brush Programmable ESC" and it says "order pending" next to it.


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## Slider

Maybe trying to copy LRP use it with both motors.brushed/brushless


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## David Washburn

yea i seen that i was looking for more info on it, and i bet it is gonna be better than lrp


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## Slider

I just wished the esc was smaller and a tad lighter. Ain't wanting much am I.


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## patcollins

Thats going to be pretty hard to do considering the ESC has to take DC and convert it to three phase AC.


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## hankster

Haven't seen anything yet from Novak that's better then LRP


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## DynoMoHum

I think things will ineed get smaller over time, but pat is right that there's alot more going on in a brushless controler then there is a brushed motor controler. I think it's alot like 3 reverseing ESCs in one package. Each of the 3 parts has to be fully capable of putting out full power in either direction, then cycling though each of the three portions of the controler in sequnce controled by some sort of processor or other realitively sophisticated form of control. I suspect that burshless controlers will always be at least twice the size of the smallest ESC.


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## kevinm

Actually, a brushless ESC is the same as 1.5 reversing speed controls, or 6 forward-only ones (sorta). Brushless needs to switch 3 motor wires to either + or - on the battery, so a minimum of 6 MOSFETs are needed. A reversing (brushed) ESC needs to switch 2 motor wires (4 MOSFETS minimum), and a forward-only brushed ESC just switches 1 wire (to minus). To lower resistance and increase amp rating, most ESCs use 2 or more MOSFETS in parallel. High-end ones might have 4 or more.


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## hankster

Most "mini" ESC use 6 FETs (maybe 7), the Tekin G-10 uses 20 FETs.


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## patcollins

A brushless motor operates on 3 phase AC in a Delta configuration. Basically 3 sine waves 120 degrees out of phase. Its not a simple on/off like brushed motor esc's that utilize pulse width modulation.


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## DynoMoHum

There not generating actual sine waves though are they? I assume they are more like square waves...

I have read that the brushless controlers are not as effcient at slow speeds as they are at higher speeds... that is that they tend to warm up more going at say half throttle then they do at full throttle... Is there truth to this? Suposedly this is because they have to turn on/off forward/reverse polarity anyway... Something about that explination just doesn't sound right however... I mean, the amount of times they switch ploarity is directly related to RPM and not nessasarly throttle posistion (depending on load, etc)... It would seem obvious that lower RPM means less switching, and how could this be less effcient?


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## DynoMoHum

Kevin... Assuming your description is correct (and I do)... then your saying for a brushless controler to have the same voltage drop (total across two phases)as a forward only ESC, then a brushless controler has to have 12 times as many FETs as a forward only brushed ESC?


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## patcollins

Dyno, regular ESC's aren't as efficient at partial throttle either. This is because the on/off is not instaneous there is a ramp up in the square wave. 

And I am pretty sure that brushless motors opperate on a simulated sine wave, chopped up by many many steps where the steps are on the order of microseconds. Ill have to take mine into work and put a scope to it when I get it installed.


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## kevinm

DynoMoHum said:


> Kevin... Assuming your description is correct (and I do)... then your saying for a brushless controler to have the same voltage drop (total across two phases)as a forward only ESC, then a brushless controler has to have 12 times as many FETs as a forward only brushed ESC?


Basically, yes. Or fewer FETs that are a lot better. It's the same reason why reversing speed controls for brushed motors aren't as fast as forward only. But, the brushless motor doesn't have the efficiency losses or friction of the comm, so this helps make up for the less efficient ESC. And with all modern ESCs, we're talking millivolts anyway.


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## hankster

And lets remember that all brushless controllers have the same thing to work with. So even if you can't compare the brushless ESC resistance with a brushed ESC, you can compare them to other brushless ESC... it's all relative.


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## DynoMoHum

I got my Novak yesterday... I was reading the instructions... they say that the controler can handle 225w... Who knows maybe they are being conservitive... The LRP motor is rated at either 234 or 255W depending on what LRP source you beleive. So, for LRP to say there motor can handle their motor... is not really saying that there controler is very much better then the Novak, maybe 10% better at best based on what info I've found.


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