# Weekend drama here in the Moebius Forum



## g_xii (Mar 20, 2002)

Hi Folks --

Over the weekend we had a bit of drama regarding what I considered to be rude behavior towards Moebius Models. I've closed the thread in question here, but want to point out a few things.

First, we should all try _not_ to make any company or individual uncomfortable with our comments. IF you have a complaint or what you consider a problem requiring customer service, contact the company or individual directly. I do not want to see the forum used for public bashing or complaints.

Second, as Frank has posted over on Facebook, they have nothing to do with how I moderate this forum. I'm glad they spoke up. There has been a _very_ rude thread or two in another forum here about another model company, and it just looks ugly with no real response. But perhaps their ultimate response will be to no longer consider Hobbytalk as a place to possibly gauge the market, and if that is the case, everyone here loses.

Third, I do the best I can modering this forum. I'm not out to "get" anyone, or to act as the "Moebius Puppet" or some kind of hired gun for Moebius. Not every moderating decision I make is going to be liked universally by all members. This fact alone makes me a great target for those that are unhappy with my decisions. However, that being said, I have no intention of getting into lengthy PM's regarding any decisions I make. Once I make them, that's the end of it. I'm sorry if you don't like it or understand it, but take a day or so to think about things before you start attacking me.

We have some really great people here, and I enjoy reading quite a few of the posts, even if I don't always contribute myself to the postings. I appreciate all the skills that you folks share with newbies, your patience with them and your willingness to share. 

This is a great community, and we have Moebius Models coming out with some great kits - So let's just keep the focus (and topics!) on the models, ok?

Thanks for reading the rant,

--Henry


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## modelgeek (Jul 14, 2005)

Thank You!


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## Gemini1999 (Sep 25, 2008)

Well said Henry...!

Frankly (no pun intended), I'm tired of all the moaning and complaining about different model companies, their policies, model releases, etc. If people have an issue with those companies, take it up directly with them. There's no need to start a whinge-fest on a hobby forum over it.

I look at discussion forums as a place for people with something in common to gather in one place, share their ideas, techniques, etc. and keep the drama to a minimum. We've seen the cycle go around and around. People complain, someone gets offended, people respond, etc. and then it tails off only to start up again over something else later on.

The sooner that this kind of discussion is curtailed, the better. It's not what the forum is for.

Bryan


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

I admit, I was one of the biggest offenders in the "bashing" ring about that "other" company. But then I realized life is too short to take things that seriously. I will show my loyalty with my wallet, not my mouth.

Ron


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## Seaview (Feb 18, 2004)

Thank you, Henry!
As Barney Fife said it best, "Nip it in the bud". Yes, there will always be complaints about this, that or the other thing, but there is such a thing as being civil and tactful in airing those complaints, considering how much sweat and expense is involved in the trail of getting these kits from the imagination of the original designer to collecting dust on your bookshelf.
The old saying about catching more flies with honey than vinegar comes to mind.
And as I've learned in the managerial world, there are better ways to issue orders and directives than by shouting.
"Politeness golden key which open many doors" - Charlie Chan


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## Fraley1701 (Sep 3, 2003)

Thanks Henry! You really don't owe an explanation, but I can understand your desire to provide some clarification. Keep up the good work! :thumbsup:


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## northjason (May 10, 2003)

I'm just going to interject that the reason I visit these forums is because they're typically fun and light-hearted. Sadly, in an age of internet anonymity and entitlement mentality, some people forget or eschew the concept of civility. So, if the mod has to use the big stick every so often in keeping the peace, I'm okay with that.


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## terryr (Feb 11, 2001)

g_xii said:


> ...
> 
> Third, I do the best I can modering this forum....


Modering?

I'll never forget old whats-his-name.


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## deadmanincfan (Mar 11, 2008)

Thank you, Henry! Well spoken!


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## James Tiberius (Oct 23, 2007)

I agree that some of the bashing has gotten out of hand. I have knowingly participated in the bashing of another company, I know some people don't agree, but the other company doesn't seem to care as much as Moebius.

I agree that the drama that unfolded here involving one member in particular went beyond the norm, and beyond even the other forum. I think it was dealt with nicely and has been a long time coming. I hope I haven't burned anyone's britches, and I'll try to act nicer, I think everyone should try to act nicer in life.

I will say, on the flip side though, and this is in no way supposed to anger anyone especially Henry, but you are the mod for this area of Hobbytalk, and you do have a financial system and or product agreement worked out between some of your products and Moebius which might be seen as a bias. That is the only rub I can find in the past events. Just an observation, nothing more.

And I for one can't wait to build more Moebius!


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## Zombie_61 (Apr 21, 2004)

Some members might disagree, but IMO you've been very fair and even-handed in your moderation of this forum Henry. Under the best circumstances it can be a difficult task--part referee, part babysitter, part peacekeeper--and I can't recall even one time when I felt you exceeded your authority or passed judgement prematurely.

Of course, that's just my opinion; I could be wrong.


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## Dave P (Jan 5, 2005)

^^You're not wrong.


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## Tomtom (Jun 10, 2009)

Lets flashback to 1975. Aurora is catching flack for the Vampirilla,Pendulum,Hanging Cage etc, the company quickly cancels all of the kits most talked about on the forums here and there.
There is an internet (alternate history) WHAT would the reaction be on here.
And then the company folds....Lets be careful out here.


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## rkoenn (Dec 18, 2007)

The perpetrator of the thread has always had a split personality on here and likely in real life. I've seen a post one day about how he was going to walk away from models altogether due to his frustrations building them and the next day on how great things were going with his model. I've heard offline stories as well. He appeared to be quite helpful at times but then a few minutes later blasting away about something or another. As stated, there is no need on here to post with such antics. But it takes a lot to really offend me and I enjoy the sharing of common interests on here. Some people won't be missed though.

Bob K.


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## HabuHunter32 (Aug 22, 2009)

This is by far one of the most civil online forums that I visit and I am thankfull that we have moderators who care enough to stop things before thet get out of hand. You guys and the great members here at Hobbytalk make this a great place to visit. Thanks Henry.


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## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

This is a great place to share thoughts and ideas. I think all the moderators do a terrific job.

Long live Hobby Talk!


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

I have been guilty of bashing the 'other guy'- but it is not meant to be an overt attack due to anger- it is how I really feel about the situation, and I do not think they are aware the levels of mistrust and frustration they are creating for them selves unless somebody does say something about it.
While the forums are full of 'internet anonymity' which often causes the meek to roar I do not hide my identity behind a screen name or faux puppet- I use my actual name on all forums which allow it and RBaker2164 on those who insist on something different.
I often start a post and then delete it without submitting after reading it again- my criteria is that it should contribute to the conversation instead of venting needlessly. I am not perfect and things do get by which I regret- in some cases I will go back and edit it to null.
I missed the original fireworks-drama that caused this new thread, I went back and found out what I could but since I do not Facebook I have no knowledge of Frank's reply. I do know the individual in question has had a mercurial temperament, but he also has contributed in a positive way to a lot of threads and sometimes comes across differently than he intends. I am sorry it came to this but I understand the reasons why it ended up as it did.


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## Tiberious (Nov 20, 2001)

I'd like to start by thanking Henry for bringing this topic to light, where it can be discussed while the topic is current, in a civil and open manner so all of us can learn from the experience. As a moderator of several boards throughout my online career (currently only the Savage Truth gaming guild remains on my to do list) I can appreciate the difficulties in moderating passionate and sometimes difficult people and topics. Banning, to most moderators is a last resort, preceeded by the careful counseling of the offender and editing or sometimes deleting offending posts. Rude, inflammatory, or offensive behavior is not only counter-productive to intelligent, meaningful discussion..

I think in the case of this individual, based on my observations of his previous posts, his behavior wasn't based in malice, rather a personality trait toward anger and frustration, perhaps enabled beyond the norm by the ease and anonymous nature of internet posting, with or without an alias....I doubt it would be any different were he to post under his real name. Because of this, I personally hope that his ban is temporary, as so much of his social interaction and hobby are based here. Whether or not his behavior is altered remains to be seen.
One thing that I work to avoid as a moderator is to take the opprotunity to get the last word and chastise or berate the offender as I ban them, as this demeans the moral superiority of the moderator, sets a negative tone for the banning as less punative and more personal, and contributes to the general sense of anger over the incident in question. Here I also commend Henry, while he did dismiss the validity of the thread in question (I do feel that if someone has an issue with the a company they should take it to them directly, were the topic more of the nature of "Ideas for improving Moebius instructions" I think we could've had a nice discussion, but that's beside the point I'm trying to make,) he did not attack the person directly as many others might be tempted.

We will never, as a community entirely agree with each other, but so long as we remain civil and constructive, I think we can make Henry's job as easy as possible.

Thanks for the ear, sorry for the long post. Again, well done Henry.

Jim


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## SJF (Dec 3, 1999)

I was once a moderator/administrator on another model forum, so I can certainly understand the frustrations that can come with the job. No worries, Henry. 

Sean


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## Bruce Bishop (Jan 17, 1999)

I have noticed that some people posting here do get into personal altercations either because they are in a bad mood or sometimes it seems they just want to make inflammatory remarks, I'm not always sure which interpretation I should give to what I read here.

Either way, I try to ignore the comments which sometimes bother me personally.

We are supposed to be polite to each other here at Hobbytalk, if for no other reason than that is part of the rules here. It makes for a pleasant, friendly atmosphere here whether we are reading, posting, or both. 

We don't know about any PM's between moderators and offenders, and I don't think we need to know. 

The moderators here all seem to do a good job of keeping things civil, and I thank them all for their efforts.


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## armymedic80 (Aug 11, 2010)

I can't believe anybody could have something negative to say about Moebius Models. Frank is a gentleman and he quickly find resolutions for customers that whine about anything that's petty. Henry, keep censoring all that sounds rude and nasty, because people need to be shut down when they act so unreasonably.


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

To Moebius and the other manufacturer: thanks for giving the rest of us a little fun.

To the complainers:

_It's. 
just.
a.
model.
kit._


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## btbrush (Sep 20, 2010)

Let's just chalk it up to SDS (sunlight deprevation syndrome). Being stuck indoors during the winter. I've noticed similar goings-on on other forums. Perhaps just agreeing to disagree. 
Bruce


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## MitchPD3 (Dec 27, 2001)

So, you did what you had to do to maintain peace.....

Welcome to my world!!!!


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## mrmurph (Nov 21, 2007)

I'm with northjason on this.

I hate to see unpleasantness on either forum. It's life inviting friends over for a fun evening and having them get into a scuffle. 

I didn't even realize that another company was being bashed on the other board. Guess I'll skip that whole mess, too.


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## Hooty (Mar 4, 2000)

Missed all the drama this weekend, and glad I did! Glad things ae getting back to normal though.


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

Man, turn you back for a few days and look what happens. I have to admit, tho', I'm a little confused: if this is about someone who was complaining (perhaps a little impolitely) about kit instructions sucking, the same comments were supported by several other long-standing members on that same thread. If someone - say, a somewhat dyslexic person like own myself - is having a truly terrible time with something and says I've reached the point where I'm just not going to buy this person's products anymore if something doesn't change, well, I don't read anything more into it than that. 
Maybe I'm referencing the wrong thread. Maybe this is about something else entirely. I sure hope so. Because this seems a huge over-reaction otherwise. While over on another forum, the endless whinging and endless bashing of another model company over its sudden silence about its future plans has long passed a much, much more uncomfortable and senseless level. And over on another space modelling site, a sudden and demented attack on one of our own over his silence regarding forthcoming releases was way, way beyond anything I've ever seen here. And totally silenced one of our best after-market people. 
It's just all the different standards for different sites and even different forums on the same site is confusing. What exactly are we allowed to say here? Is my old Seaview Inaccuracies and Fixes thread where I talk about how much was wrong with the kit and how much work I did to fix it still something that I could still post? Would I be allowed to make critical comments about the Chariot kit? I would be, after all, criticizing over-size or under-sized or wrongly-shaped parts, or indecipherable instructions. Not the people who run the company or who have invested years now into trying to bring us the kits we've wanted our whole lives. 
But neither was he. I sure hope I've got the wrong thread, coming into this in the middle. 
I have read the rules. Obviously I just don't understand them.
Maybe we need a new rule: nobody gets to make a single comment pro or con about anything without posting or linking a picture of a model they're actually working on. Rats, blew it already. Wait! - I did finish my vac formers:
http://s1004.photobucket.com/albums...Scale Jupiter 2/?action=view&current=2274.jpg
Wonder if that counts?


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## whitewarrior (Nov 29, 2008)

I believe that if there is a problem with ANY model, put out by ANYbody, we should be able to discuss it HERE. Not have to go to the company to discuss it with them. We should be able to speak openly here without the worry of being banned (i'm starting to shake now). But i do agree that there should be no intentional bashing of ANY company. And no bashing of any one person or group. When there is a problem, please, bring it up so we all can figure it out! And for Moebius, their models speak for themselves. I love em'!


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## ryoga (Oct 6, 2009)

whitewarrior said:


> I believe that if there is a problem with ANY model, put out by ANYbody, we should be able to discuss it HERE. Not have to go to the company to discuss it with them. We should be able to speak openly here without the worry of being banned (i'm starting to shake now). But i do agree that there should be no intentional bashing of ANY company. And no bashing of any one person or group. When there is a problem, please, bring it up so we all can figure it out! And for Moebius, their models speak for themselves. I love em'!



I'm with whitewarrior on this (but I'm not speaking up for the banned member). I have found that when something vague is brought up, sometimes we don't even need to go direct to the manufacturer. Some forum members already have the answers. Sharing knits the community.

But what was done was more bashing than a discussion. Line is drawn there, so Henry has the last say.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

I have a bit of a split personality too.

No you don't.

Shut up!

Oh, Mom always like you best!


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## kenlee (Feb 11, 2010)

SteveR said:


> To Moebius and the other manufacturer: thanks for giving the rest of us a little fun.
> 
> To the complainers:
> 
> ...


I agree whole heartedly.


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## Lee Staton (May 13, 2000)

It's a life lesson the folks who publish hobby magazines, put on conventions, run model companies or moderate discussion boards come to (eventually) realize: Any hobby that's a labor of love can be hijacked by negative personalities, infighting, or other destructive tendencies.

The only way the long-timers, like me, survive it is to avoid and tune out such stuff. If we didn't, we'd surely quit our endeavors and leave the hobby. It can get pretty unpleasant.

Luckily, we can get rejuvenated by building a cool model kit. And, also luckily, there are companies producing great stuff in our genre. It has not always been so, and it may not last a long time. It'd be a shame to be so eager to find fault that we miss the great times we happen to be in, hobby-wise.

I hope this discussion board stays as interesting, friendly, and informative as we can all make it. It's worth limiting ourselves a little bit from the tendency to let our emotions fly without consideration of the destructive impact we might have.

Lee


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## teslabe (Oct 20, 2007)

In my mind Moebius can do no wrong, they brought so many kits I dreamed of 
to life with the ultimate being a "dream come true" Jupiter 2.......:thumbsup:
I never had a problem following the instructions that come with the kits. As for that tread, no need for me to do anything more then read it and move on to the many jobs at hand, building my kits...... I took it as just a case of "cabin fever" nothing more. Henry, you did a good job handling the whole thing..... IMHO.


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## bert model maker (Feb 19, 2002)

Thank you Henry, you do a GREAT job moderating a busy forum like this one !


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## USS Atlantis (Feb 23, 2008)

No explanation was needed, Henry

But thank you anyway - and I don't believe you got "heavy handed" or "became a puppet"

The threads *were* getting out of hand and a bit nasty - you did what you had to, to keep the peace and return the forums to a resemblance of decorum

I applaud you sir.


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## AJ-1701 (May 10, 2008)

teslabe said:


> In my mind Moebius can do no wrong, they brought so many kits I dreamed of
> to life with the ultimate being a "dream come true" Jupiter 2.......:thumbsup:
> I never had a problem following the instructions that come with the kits. As for that tread, no need for me to do anything more then read it and move on to the many jobs at hand, building my kits...... I took it as just a case of "cabin fever" nothing more. Henry, you did a good job handling the whole thing..... IMHO.


Pretty much have to agree there... except the J2 was just one of the many dreams/childhood wishes... big Seaview, big FS1, Chariot, Space Pod and even wee little ones of the diving bell and mini sub. Thanks, cue in 'adorational sigh', Moebius and thanks Henry for doing one of those jobs that most say that can do better, but one where few will actually step up to the plate.

Cheers,

Alec. :wave:


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## Ace Airspeed (May 16, 2010)

I am eternally grateful for Moebius. The kits I have built have been wonderful and lots of fun. 

Henry, you handled the drama correctly. It's one thing to state an opinion, and quite another to be venomous about it.


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

John P said:


> I have a bit of a split personality too.
> 
> No you don't.
> 
> ...


Knock it off, the both of you!


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

We've discussed on this and other HobbyTalk forums the problem with the "neck" of the BSG kit without getting nasty. Things like that are very, very, very helpful to me and, I think, others as well.

I think it's less about the subject matter and more about the attitude when there are problems. 

For example, with the BSG: would I have been happier if the apparent fault did not exist? 

Yes, of course. However, it is not too hard of a fix and being able to openly discuss it is very important and leads to solutions for the modelers with the kit in hand. I haven't seen a perfect kit yet but Mobius has come very, very close, IMHO.

In the attitude displayed by some when obviously upset, it is unfortunate that "flaming" takes place but we are human and our emotions sometimes get the better of us. I have made mistakes and offended others as many long and shorter time members have also done on occasion. If there's anyone out there to whom I haven't apologized to, let me know and I'll do so. I'll admit that I get stupid sometimes but do my best nowadays to not purposely offend here. 

I really like the fellow who was banned and hope he is able to return and that he sees this as a learning sort of experience. It's hard, especially for us older dogs, [mixed metaphor warning! ] to eat crow sometimes as I know from personal experience so I don't blame him if he does not come back or even if the moderators do not want him back. Sometimes such things are for the best. But forgiveness sure rates way up there in my book and I hope we can welcome him back as a brother in plastic for future discussions.


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## PF Flyer (Jun 24, 2008)

With sincerest apologies to English poet Percy Bysshe Shelley (1792 - 1822), perhaps we should take as our mantra, "We are all Geeks."


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

Was the banned fellow "babaganoosh" in another life?


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## miniature sun (May 1, 2005)

In forty years of modelling I don't think I've ever built a kit that didn't have an issue somewhere and all kits, regardless of their manufacturer, have their pro's and con's.
In Moebius's case I think nearly everyone here would agree that the pro's far exceed the con's in every kit. I think most issues, once discovered, can be easily overcome and sorting them out, at least for me, is a big part of the enjoyment I get from the hobby.
Coming on here simply to complain is really just counterproductive.
I think where Moebius really score is in their innovative design which anticipates things like lighting and aftermarket parts but still allows the more casual builder to produce an accurate replica straight from the box, something you don't get from the bigger manufacturers. It's because of this that I'm happy to overlook the occasional gripe I might have.


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## Tiberious (Nov 20, 2001)

Well, miniature sun, I have a complaint about you. You're too good at what you do and you make me feel inferior, and in today's world, that's just plain unacceptable 

In other words, keep up the excellent work and know that if I could copy your result, I would!

But as to the topic at hand, I agree with the Perfessor and some other folks here in hoping that the banning isn't permanent, the boy has some anger issues, but in general he's got some useful input and frankly, I think he needs Hobbytalk given his situation.

Tib


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

ALL THE KITS ARE GREAT, it just takes our SKILLS to bring it out. Even the Lunar Models 24" Jupiter 2 was such a kit. It taxed my SKILLS to bring it out. The Moebius Kits don't need anywhere as much taxing of the skills to make it a class model for your collection. I always thought screwing with the parts and 'test fitting' them in place gave teh patient modeler the insight and such to do final assembly/painting at as high a level as the builder wanted or could manage. 

I guess many of us have been at least rude to other board members for many different reasons. Mostly, it's uncalled for but when another gives wrong or faulty information, or the solution to a problem is just plain stoopid, possibly damaging etc. A good thing for us to attempt is to offer information, and congratulations for a model builder without critical comments if done in a nasty manner.


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## iriseye (Sep 21, 2010)

I didn't realize the "person" in question cast such a long shadow.


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## rkoenn (Dec 18, 2007)

iriseye said:


> I didn't realize the "person" in question cast such a long shadow.


I couldn't see after it happened! LOL I do think they ought to consider letting him back in again. He should have asked for suggestions or answers for his problem rather than the rant he went off on. But as for me if I had read it I likely would have just put it out of my mind after knowing that for me I likely wouldn't have much problem with the model when the time comes to build it. The Moebius kits I have done are great and I've had no fundamental problems with them. The problems I might have had likely were my fault and I figured them out myself. And about everyone here is more than willing to lend a hand. He seems like an OK guy but he does have a low frustration point judging from his previous points.

Bob K.


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## James Tiberius (Oct 23, 2007)

He doens't seem like an ok guy. He starts huge rants and rampages in every forum. And most of them are pointless ramblings.

I hope he doesn't come back, or that "god of not getting paid and being unwanted guy".....but thats a whole other story....


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## Tiberious (Nov 20, 2001)

Awww, but JT's just an old softie


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## Dave P (Jan 5, 2005)

SteveR said:


> Was the banned fellow "babaganoosh" in another life?


Yes. In fact there's a thread somewhere here that it was pretty much admitted to.


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## Dr. Brad (Oct 5, 1999)

Well, I guess there's a lesson for us all here - think before we type. And, I think it's good to imagine the person you're addressing to be in the same room as you. Would we be as impolite in person as we can be on the web? Maybe, maybe not, but it's something to consider...


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## Dave P (Jan 5, 2005)

Just to be clear, I'm not bashing nor do I wish to kick someone when they're down and not here to speak for themselves, but for those that don't know this is far from the first time.

He has had a rather long history of self destructing, begging forgiveness, coming back under another name and starting the whole cycle over again. This has happened several boards over the last 3-4 years. Among other things, talk about drug use and posting pornography that I know at least one person came upon unexpectedly while his daughter was standing there led to getting banned multiple times, all the while blaming it on other problems.

Frankly I'm surprised this hasn't happened sooner. His postings here under his current name have been relatively tame, if not a bit odd at times, in comparison.

I applaud your compassion and willingness to extend a welcoming hand, but do not expect the leopard to change his spots. With some people there gets to be a point where continued forgiveness and an endless string of second chances only continues to enable bad behavior.

There have been plenty of civil, informative threads covering kit fixes, problems and inaccuracies without attacking the manufacturer. Nothing wrong with that. But when anger and accusations boil over as a way to deflect the modelers own lack of patience and problem solving skills is where the line gets crossed, and having people call them on it (politely) is not an unreasonable response. I think that as a group, if you're first impulse is to tap dance on someone's head in response to an insane post, take your fingers off the keyboard and move on to another thread. Let silence send the message.

Man, if I had typed my gut response to that drive by shooting in the Catwoman casting thread, I'd most likely be banned now too!

Now, slowly back away from the computer and go build something!


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## machgo (Feb 10, 2010)

Well I'm glad someone else brought it up first, and I'll add my 2 cents to the mix: I believe I've read the post in question ( http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=316785 ) that led to the banning of Magesblood, and quite frankly, I didn't see anything worth getting banned over.

Now I'll add a few caveats to my last statement: I am referring to the closed thread regarding poor instructions for Moebius kits. If there is some other post behind the banning, I have no knowledge of it. In one of my first posts on this site, I pretty much said the same thing regarding their landing gear upgrade set for the big Flying Sub! I thought it was a great set, and said so. But let's face it--as far as the kits I own, the instructions that come with Moebius' kits are poor. The kits are quite good though, and I have several. I'd buy more, the instruction sheet issue notwithstanding.

If there were PMs that led to his banning, I have no knowledge of them.

If something transpired on Facebook, I have no knowledge of it, as I don't visit that site. I'm not quite sure how that would impact anything on this forum though.

I've read quite a number of his posts, and the ones I've read, to my sensibility, don't stray past the guidelines. I'll readily admit that some of his posts could/should be worded better to elicit the desired response, presumably help with whatever issue he's having. Are some of his posts whiny? Sure. Are some of his posts helpful? Sure. 

I only know the poster "Magesblood." If he has existed here under some other name, and did something wrong, I have no knowledge of it. 

If his banning is a result of cumulative behavior, that may be a separate issue.

The thing that strikes me the most as being on the unfair side is that far, far more intense, and downright nasty, bashing takes place, regularly, in other forums, on Hobby Talk, over Polar Lights/Round 2 products/plans/press releases than what I've seen here, with no apparent consequence to the poster(s). Presumably Henry isn't the moderator on the other forums, so presumably, he's not at fault. But, when two forums, on the same website, are handled so very, very differently, it gives me pause. That kind of disparate governance can very easily lead to capriciousness. I'm not saying that's the case here, with the banning of Magesblood, but it could be conceived that way. 

It can also be easily conceived as protection of a paying sponsor.

In the final analysis, Henry can ban whomever he wants, for whatever reason he wants, because it's his forum. That is not an insult or dig. I accept that as the reality of playing in someone else's house. I just don't think that Magesblood deserved banning based solely on his posts in this thread: http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=316785

Chris Dunworth "machgo"


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## robiwon (Oct 20, 2006)

I have the Moebius Viper, but while I have not built it yet I have studied it from top to bottom, including the instructions. At first I thaought they were a cool advertisement as I have not seen instructions given that much attention in recent memory. While most may not be used to this type of instruction sheet it does show that Moebius is thinking of the consumer in that it is putting as much effort and quality in them as they do their models. Now, I only have two models by Moebius (mini flying sub and the Viper) so I do not feel biased at all toward them. 

I don't know why he said the things he said, but it can't be that hard to put the landing gear on. He has built several models so he does have some skill. I don't like to bash people, forums, interests, etc. Heck, I even sent him a free set of landing gear for said model, even though some of his posts have rubbed me the wrong way. Just my nature I guess


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## geoffdude (Mar 31, 2009)

Using similar past threads and the action taken with them, as an example, I would offer up that this thread has long served it's purpose.. and is no longer related to Moebius model building, or the initial issue, and is more of a dog-pile upon a person. It would be best that this thread get locked... and everyone can move on.

Regards,

Geoff


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## geoffdude (Mar 31, 2009)

For what it's worth Chris, I agree 100% with you, and well said.

Regards,

Geoff



machgo said:


> Well I'm glad someone else brought it up first, and I'll add my 2 cents to the mix: I believe I've read the post in question ( http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=316785 ) that led to the banning of Magesblood, and quite frankly, I didn't see anything worth getting banned over.
> 
> Now I'll add a few caveats to my last statement: I am referring to the closed thread regarding poor instructions for Moebius kits. If there is some other post behind the banning, I have no knowledge of it. In one of my first posts on this site, I pretty much said the same thing regarding their landing gear upgrade set for the big Flying Sub! I thought it was a great set, and said so. But let's face it--as far as the kits I own, the instructions that come with Moebius' kits are poor. The kits are quite good though, and I have several. I'd buy more, the instruction sheet issue notwithstanding.
> 
> ...


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## mcdougall (Oct 28, 2007)

geoffdude said:


> Using similar past threads and the action taken with them, as an example, I would offer up that this thread has long served it's purpose.. and is no longer related to Moebius model building, or the initial issue, and is more of a dog-pile upon a person. It would be best that this thread get locked... and everyone can move on.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Geoff


Agreed.
Mcdee


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

Yep. Agreed.


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## g_xii (Mar 20, 2002)

RSN said:


> I admit, I was one of the biggest offenders in the "bashing" ring about that "other" company. But then I realized life is too short to take things that seriously. I will show my loyalty with my wallet, not my mouth.
> 
> Ron


That is taking the high road! I feel the same way -- If I feel a company has put out product that I am not satisfied with or puts out promotion but fails to deliver, the best thing I can do is to vote with my wallet!

I just think in the long run, it shows poor form when it gets out of hand. In your instance, I can understand where your frustrations were coming from as your feelings were indeed shared by many others. It just looks bad, though, when everyone jumps on the wagon over it. 

I know I would prefer if someone had a problem with one of my products or company policies in general that they would contact me directly. 

But, when you start building up a history, it gets harder and harder to quiet the masses down! That's really the main reason I liked what Frank posted -- he spoke up, said his piece, and to top it all off, it made sense. Nothing wrong there!

--Henry


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

It's a good to discuss these things occasionally to remind folks that we're all human but the rules have to be enforced because some folks have more problems than others getting along. Just a fact of life.


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## g_xii (Mar 20, 2002)

OK -- I'm going to close this up right now, after I've said my last few words on the subject.

First, I'm only a moderator in the Moebius Models forum. Anything that goes on here elsewhere on Hobbytalk is not something I have any control over.

Second, by all means, if there is a problem / issue with a kit, feel free to post it here. It would actually save time (like the Frankenstein kit issue) if Moebius can address this in one location rather than 200 emails. My intent here has not been to simply and blindly praise Moeibus, but rather to have members of hobbytalk treat them with a bit of respect and contact them directly -- especially if you have a _complaint_ about something. This is always preferable to bashing them in public. And it's fair. Moebius seems to be very customer oriented, and I've read time and time again about folks that have screwed up a part, and were able to very inexpensively obtain a replacement part or two directly from Moebius. They are trying, and I think they deserve a little respect for their efforts.

Third, yes, I do have a loose relationship with Moebius. But when I'm here, I have my MODERATOR hat on, not my Moebius cap. You'll just have to take my word on that. But they (Moebius) never tell me what to do. Ever.

Finally, as a moderator, if I ask you to stop doing something, and you feel the need to send me PM after PM, threatening me and threatening to "report" me, arguing with me, taking the arguement over to the Moebius facebook page, harrassing folks that work for Moebius over at facebook, well, don't be surprised if you end up with a "forced" vacation from Hobbytalk, courtesy of me. I don't mention this as a threat, but if a moderator asked ME in the past to stop something, well, I just stopped the "offending" behavior. I may not have personally agreed with the moderators decision, but I did agree to the "Terms of Service" here at hobbytalk, and there are all kinds of clauses about conduct in it. In effect, I have "pre-agreed" that said moderator has the right to ask me to stop whatever he considers an offense that violates the terms of service. 

Thanks to all of you who were supportive during this, and thanks as well to those who were at least open-minded and understanding, even while not in full posession of all the details. I appreciate that. 

I'll always try to be reasonable here. You can PM me if you think I'm being unreasonable. Without going into into any real specifics about this particular situation, though, as far as I'm concerned it is now over with. Let's move on, and get back to model building!

We will now resume the original programming, already in progress...

--Henry


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