# Fred Lorenzen NASCAR T-Jet



## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

After giving away all but two of the T-Jets bill Hall gave me I decided to do something with the one I actually still own (or possibly build a new one). The wife snatched up one of the powder blue/chrome 65 Mustangs for hers and I've been running mine with a Willy's body. I've been looking at all of the links people have been placing in this forum and after looking over the Slots-n-Stuff site ordered a light blue over whte Galaxie to begin my project with.

The car I'm planning on doing is I believe a '64 with the blue roof. I'm not sure what year the Slots-n-Stuff body is but it appears to be a '64, any help would be appreciated. There seems to be some information on both the Holman Moody Fairlane and the Galaxies in NASCAR from those days, again that's something I'm looking at while waiting for the body to arrive. I think for my intention and with consideration to scale either way this body will work just fine.

I have some Detail Master decal film I'll be working up the numbers for. I have them in black but the ones on the car are the same blue as the roof is painted. All of the rest of the contingency decals I have one a Microsport waterslide sheet, the quarter panel lettering will be handled with HO or N gauge railroad decals. For that matter I may even be able to find the numbers in color, so I'll check for those too. 

I will be building this project up on a NOS chassis, which I'll get in a week or so. I also found nice set of narrow turned aluminum wheels anodiozed in light blue on the Model Motoring website. Since I want to car to look realistic and not have the wheels hanging outside of the fender wells going narrow was the only alternative. I'll order some non-ribbed tires to go on those wheels to make them look like the cool Goodyear slicks of the day. 

Lastly I'll deal with some minor electrical items like gold p/u shoes and maybe some hi-pro motor brushes. I'll leave the armature stock, no christmas tree's though, from what I'ver been reading the red wires seem to be the most torquey and that's what I'll be looking for. 

So here's a couple of questions for you guys. The Model Motoring site mentions both a long WB and short WB T-jet. Which chassis is the one that fits? Also, I'd rather have some stamped steel looking wheels that I can just paint light blue, does anyone offer them for the T-Jets?


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## jph49 (Nov 20, 2003)

Pete,

The LWB and the SWB tjet chassis are the same chassis. The chassis has three axle holes for the front axle. One is lwb, one is swb, and the third is for the hotrod stance.

As far as the #28 LaFayette Ford decals, I think I have a set I could send you if you'd like. I went the way of HO train lettering and it was a pain. Then I found a set of the decals - the sheet actually had several sets on it. I'll look around later and see if I can locate it. If I find it you can pm me your mailing address and I'll send it out to you.

Patrick


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## ogarfield (Jul 8, 2005)

Pete, if you need these , a great set of decals, cheap, but correct & easy to apply, try M.E.V. Originals. Mike Vitale has a super buisness of making resin HO bodies & cars. His decals, Which I use 'cause they are GREAT, can be found on his website. The decals for the Ford you are looking for are only $3.00 a set. Give MEV Originals a try.... You'll like 'em............Tom P.S. Pete , for the steel wheels , go to Road Race Replicas...They have them....


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## afxgns (Jul 6, 2006)

The bigest problem you will have with this body is the stance.
The old school stockers are VERY hard to get looking right on a T-Jet chassis. The hood hits, the trunk hits, Hell even the tires hit.
I think, Knowing your level of modeling, you will be wanting to get this thing "in the weeds". That is VERY hard to do with the chassis/body combo. 
On the H.O. world webstie there is an article by Mark Owang, regarding the modification of a T-Jet chassis, were he lowers the chassis/gearplate. This may be your best bet for a realistic look for this great project.

Good luck
Tim Leppert


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

Pat, PM sent. Tom, I'll take a look at what else they have, I'd like a Ned Jarrett car to go along with my Dale Jarrett cars. Who knows, I'm just getting into TJ's, this could become a habit. 

Tim, I'm not sure if I'll go for that level of realism, but I've been playing around with shortening the body screw posts a little. I really don't want to fudge up a $10 body experimenting but I will look at that first. This won't be something that goes together overnight, I'll look at all the cool stuff and the pictures and see how to do it right.


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

afxgns said:


> The bigest problem you will have with this body is the stance.
> The old school stockers are VERY hard to get looking right on a T-Jet chassis. The hood hits, the trunk hits, Hell even the tires hit.
> I think, Knowing your level of modeling, you will be wanting to get this thing "in the weeds". That is VERY hard to do with the chassis/body combo.
> On the H.O. world webstie there is an article by Mark Owang, regarding the modification of a T-Jet chassis, were he lowers the chassis/gearplate. This may be your best bet for a realistic look for this great project.
> ...


Pete, I couldn't have said it better than Tim has. It's tough to get the 60's fords to sit right. In general they sag in the butt and are high in the nose.

Some guys use modeling clay pressed into the body to determine how much meat can be removed from the posts after the chassis is pressed into the clay.

I prefer silly putty as it doesnt leave a messy residue on the gear plate. I also wind the screws in tight when I make the impression rather than just cramming the chassis in and callin' er good. 

For the most part the Fords need the front shortened first off. I take the clearance determined by the impression and divide by two. Remove that amount from the front post with a small, smooth, flat faced round stone on your moto tool and then refit and take a fresh impression. Keep in mind the final rake your after and always only take half of what you think you can get away with. It's always easier to take a skoshe more later than add material.

If you bind the gearplate, try removing material on the east west axis corresponding to the gearplate clamp with the flat stone before you get all crazy and attempt a complete north to south scoop out. The gear clamp generally hits first.

RRR steelies will probably rub hard. A certain amount of material can be sanded off the wheels backside with 600 and smoothed with 1200 in order to get them packed under the skin. Remember that 3R wheels are not bored completely through so you cant relieve them beyond a certain point with out having to bore through the front for a square fit on the axle. If such is the case I bob and bevel the axle for the least offensive look possible. The rear chassis rails can be shaved and the rear magnet housing can be radiused for a little rear tub effect as well. The obvious draw back is the narrowing of the wheel track/width and the associated handling "disimprovments"

I believe Phil has a recommendation for this application, If I'm not mistaken you would use the narrower front wheels on the back. Check Roger Corrie's cars out he uses the steelies a lot and may have additional insight. 

Like Tim said you have standards. I'll add that it's given if you start post shavin the wells will definitely require some work to suit ya. Whittling will be inevitable. Olwang's method is very ingenious but labor intensive. It also requires the use of low pro wheels/tires to complete the operational effect. I have a drop axle technique that's not as tedious. 

The first pic is a front and rear drop axle. Although it's a Jag, it reflects the absolute max dump obtainable and uses narrowed but standard profile wheels. Often times little or no material has to be removed from the posts however well mods are mandatory.

The second pic is an Atlas "Bird I salvage from the trash on a T-jet rear drop chassis. The previous owner had cut the wells above the belly button!

Good luck Toastmaster!

Bill


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## ParkRNDL (Mar 20, 2002)

Hey, I got a Galaxie slammed down pretty good a while back...





































oh wait... you're gonna need a gearplate in that, aren't you? see, that was the problem I ran into... :lol:

and before anyone gasps at the sacrilege pictured above on original Aurora cycolac, don't blame me--this is how I got it:










--rick


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## TX Street Racer (May 8, 2004)

[email protected] ....."Oh wait, you'll want a gearplate on that" :lol: 

One other solution for "steel" wheels is M.E.V. Mike offers some NICE steel style wheels perfect for period correct Nascars and such. He offers these wheels in a wide variety of colors too.....and very reasonably priced.

I've ran just the narrow RRR wheels on my cars in the past and they'll work......but often times aren't "true". Also one other problem is the tires and such would be taller...and harder to fit under the body...so potential clearance issues.

Go with the MEV steelies....... :thumbsup:


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## afxgns (Jul 6, 2006)

I would love to hear more regarding the "drop axle method". Those examples look great.

Tim Leppert


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

Man, you guys need to all get together and write a new book. I have some of the old Model Motoring books about modifications, back then removing the glass to save weight was the hot set up. Even it's it's just an online guide getting all of these sources and info out to the general public.

This Galaxie may become a test mule, I have a a set of donated decals coming for it and I'll toy with lowering little by little to get it where I want it. The only time I've seen Lorenzens roof blue was in that shot from Wikipedia taken at Knott's Berry farm, all of the historical pics have it as a solid white car. I'm sure the roof will be painted wihte in the interest of historical correctness.

I have a 3R order I'm working up now. Of course the first thing on the list is ALL of the decal sheets, that alone is $68. But it also allows 53 combinations of cars to be made from them, so the expense will be worth it. I'm also ordering the #814 steels in blue and the RWL-S tires, basically for looks. I'll work on the body for fit once I decide between the '68 Torino and the Talledega Tornio body. Golden Boy raced both cars in their respective years in similar paint schemes.

From looking at the 3R site the Torinos sit lower and look better than the Galaxie that's coming. I don't know if this is by design since it's a resin body or if the artist did some tweeking of his/her own to get it that low. Either way I'm heading in that direction. This will be the "second" project essentially after the Galaxies, the "third" will be to repop that Fairline that Mario drove to the Daytona 500 Victory Lane in '67 that's on the site too. Very nice. 

Post Script: There don't seem to be a lot of interest locally to race the T-jets, which is sad because I'd race the Oscar Meyer Weenermobile if they'll allow silicones. Being semi retired I guess I'm weighing heavily on the nerves of the local guys who have real jobs during the day. Most of them look at the stuff I'm doing and shake their heads, they think I've gone off the slot car deep end. Frankly, I want to move to the SEATAC area and race with Bill, Marty and Mike but the wife can't handle the rain and the cold. Of the 18 or so kids involved from the B&GC I can see less than 4 or 5 sticking with this for more than a few months, and maybe less than that through the entire summer. Even the kids who are getting the race cases seem to be getting bored, and it's a fight to keep them interested. Of the local adult racers (Martin, AJ, the Hicks Brothers) they want the get back to the "Go Blindingly Fast" theory of racing and away from DRIVERS SKILL, the summer series might be the last local hurrah from the Eagle and sprint cars. Anyway, at least I can come here still and learn a few things along the way...


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## ogarfield (Jul 8, 2005)

Guys, here is a pic of my MEV '62 Lorenzen Galaxie. Along my '62 Poncho. Both were purchased body only & I added the decals. The #28 has MEV light blue wheels (steels) + Thunderslicks tires...........Tom


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

Very nice Tom, but at $56 each they're a bit more than I could convice the wife to let me buy. Especially after I showed her my Daytona line up at around $560. I like the 3R Fairground cars too, that takes me back to my younger days and the Pinto mini-stock I owned as a kid. I may do more of those than the vintage Grand Nationals just because there's more creative leeway in paint schemes and decal combinations.


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## TX Street Racer (May 8, 2004)

Hey Pete, quick idea for you bud.... MEV sells all of thier bodies in an unfinnished "kit" form for only $15


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

Yeah, same as 3R, $15 each. I'm going to eventually wind up with a few from each place I think. I knew getting back into this boddy was going to be expensive....


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## roadrner (Jul 21, 1999)

Pete McKay said:


> I knew getting back into this boddy was going to be expensive....


 

Yeah, who'd have thunk it. So far away from those $3.00/$3.50 TJets of the 60's.  rr


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

At $3.00 it still took me two weeks allowance to save for one. I remember when the pre-MT's came out it so differnet, then the MT's came out and there was no looking back...until 35 years later. 

The initial cost is what's going to get me. After I get all the decals then making each car will be body ($15) and wheels ($3.50) only, so it's not that bad. I'll do a couple cars a month until I get 10 or 12 then see what happens. Like I said, I'm loving the 3R's Fairgrounds Racers a whole lot, and a '64 falcon is already on the list with the second order.


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

ParkRNDL said:


> Hey, I got a Galaxie slammed down pretty good a while back...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


HaHaHa Park! You're an @#$%^&!. You got me so bad on that one. I'm still laughing. Tagged and bagged me! :thumbsup: 

Saw the first pic and thought, "How in the hell did Rick do that?!!!" :freak:


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## ParkRNDL (Mar 20, 2002)

--rick


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## vaBcHRog (Feb 19, 2003)

Pete,

The car shown here is a fan car not a replica and I can't say 100% but I know whwre to find oiut that Fast Freddie never drove one with a blue roof 

Roger Corrie


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

Roger I've been online to Legends of NASCAR, NASCAR History and about half a dozen books stores in the local area and this is the only car I've seen with a colored roof. There isn't a roof number either which leads me to believe it was a fan car as well. Fred's family has a fan site that I wrote to asking about the car but I haven't gotten an answer yet. I'd have to say I'm 90% convinced his car was white regardless of the years he raced. I intend to make the '64 and a '69 Talledaga in his schemes and then start on fairgrounds racers. 

I want to do a Daytona or Superbird as well but I don't know if the decal sheets have details for the #22 Golden Products Dodge of Dick Brooks. Dick was a Porterville, California native and later in his life occasionally did appearances at Rocky Hill Speedway. The red and gold Daytona was one of the cars in the NASCAR shop at Daytona USA. He was most noted for winning the pole of his very first Grand National Race, the Daytona 500 in 1969.


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## vaBcHRog (Feb 19, 2003)

Looks like most of Freds cars were Wimbledon white with and at least a couple accounts of a Perl White version being out there. If you do one of Dash great looking 63's you need to remove the hood and side chrome for it to be correct. If you don't want to do that I have a resin version with the chrome removed and the roof, front and rear bumpers cast in for $12.00 shipped 


Roger Corrie









This is as low as I have made one in the past. You can cut the gear plate rails then work the inside of teh resin till, it paper thin and bring it down.

Roger Corrie


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

I talked to the guy at 3R's today, just checking on how his availability works. It'll be 2-3 weeks he says to make my cars in the colors I desire so I have more time to research it. My Galaxie will be here in a couple of days as well so I'll be bale to play with that in the mean time. 

From 3R I'm planning on getting one of his AFX fairground '55 Chevy's in lemon and a T-Jet Fairgrounds '55 in lemon, both cars will be done as #55 KTSA Radio cars from the early and mid 1960's driven by Ricci Ware Sr. at Mercury Speedway from 1962 until 1966, then at Pan American from 1966 until 1972. The car was yellow with a white roof, black numbers and lettering. It's one of the few cars I have both B&W and color pics of. Another is the '67 Fairlane that Mario won the Daytona in, I fell in love with the pics on the 3R site and I want so see if i can duplicate it. I have several sets of Slixx decals for the model that are autographed by Mario last year of that same car. My second Fred Lorenzen car will be the '68 Torino, and I'm also getting a '64 Falcon fairgrounds car because I like the short wheelbase look of the car. 

I was told that painting resin slot car bodies was not really worth the effort, I hope this isn't the case as I really want to do some cool looking paint jobs on the cars I'll be making. Any of you guys suffer problems with resin cars?


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

This is my experiment before the Galaxie arrives, a poor hapless Nova donated it's soul to my dremel. I didn't have any modeling clay so I just did the trial and error method of removing plastic and checking the fit. Since I didn't have the tires that would be going on a fairgrounds car I just used the standard ribbed trojans that come with them. 










The fender wells were radiused as the car was dropped. The problems I had was that the front fenders could only be radiused just so far. I removed a bump that was just in front of the windshield area from the inside and then had to cut just the corners off the gear plate rails. I also took the time to thin some thickness out of the fender opening areas from the inside. The look I got was more realistic, the quarters don't look like it's made out of 4" boiler plate now.



















I've already done things like drill out the headlights and cut out the taillights, I'll be making an air cleaner to have sticking out of the hood, and maybe exhaust pipes too. No glass though so I'll have to reinforce the A pillars some. It's quite a bit lower than the uncut Nova as is, I'm not sure if I'll be adding an airdam or spoiler since this is a Saturday night special.


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## afxgns (Jul 6, 2006)

The Nova is a GREAT model. I have run this body many time as a race car in the MAHOR group, I love the balance and the handling of this car.
Try this one for fray, slip-on fray and stock. It turns well and has a great roll center alowing for a good loose feel in the corners. If your car tips with this one, you're doing something wrong!

Tim


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

Looks great Pete. You'll have no trouble packin' the 3R's under that. :thumbsup:


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

My wife has now claimed the Nova for herself, so it'll be red with a gold roof and be numbered (what else) 49. I made a good sized hole in the hood for an air cleaner to stick out, and made one the same sized as the Tomy Pavement has, so it would be like an 18" or even a 24" air cleaner in scale. I haven't done the pipes yet, and I may not. As low as this thing is the pipes would hit the rails when it drifts. I decided to just put the glass back in for this one. I may do a MOPAR with one of the Hemi cars for myself for practice.

Doing this one gave me confidence to actually work on more expensive resin cars once I start doing the replicas. Other than the two planned Lorenzen and one Andretti car the rest will be the older Saturday Night cars. I'm also going to slowly start to replace the Eagle bodies on my MT/XT cars with '55, '56 and '57 Chevys one I find one I like.


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## roadrner (Jul 21, 1999)

That's gonna be one sweet looker. Love the stance. May have to dig out a Nova and copy one for myself.  rr


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

I had to finally put a spaced between the body post and the chassis, when the screw is tightened all the way down the front tires rubbed just a tad on the top of the fernders in front. I found some more Coke decals and convinced the wife to let me do a #12 Coke machine....same red and gold colors. Should be done tonight except for the numbers, I'll post pics of it tomorrow.


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

I got the Galaxie yesterday and spent the day admiring it. It's a very clean car, all of the paint and assembly is well done. This was well worth the $10 I paid for it. But I hesitated to cut it up. This thing is just too pretty.

Patrick's decals came today, again the decals were equally beautiful. And even though the car was not "historicly correct" with its blue roof I decided to apply the Golden Boy's 1964 scheme to it. He didn't say the source of the decals but under a magnifying glass they are extremely crisp looking and fit the T-Jet very well.



















All that I did was dot the headlights with a little light blue, and wash the grill work with a little India Ink. My personal opinion is that this gives the car an extremely nice classic look, one that I would like to continue like this if this class of racing takes off. I think this car will boost the interest quite a bit. And if I want a stock Galaxie back the decals will come off with masking tape. I'll be ordering a new chassis for this car to do it justice very soon, and I have steelies coming to complete the look.


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## jph49 (Nov 20, 2003)

Pete,

The car looks really good. Glad the decals arrived quickly and that you were able to get the car done. If I am not mistaken the decals came from Patto's Place. (I may have ordered them from Professor Motor, but I believe they are Patto's.) He's the only one I know of that puts several sets on a single sheet. I've had them for years and used a set on a RRR Fairlane.

Patrick


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

I'm just damn glad I took a picture of it, I picked it up a few minutes ago thinking they were dry and ruined both quater panels. All the LaFayette Ford decals disintergrated because I used Microsol to set them in place.  I have decals coming from RRR next week, I'll replace the quarters then. Until then it'll just be unsponsored.


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## jph49 (Nov 20, 2003)

aaaaarrrrrggg! Hate to hear that. I think I have another set of LaFayette sponsor decals if you need them. Let me know.

Patrick


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

I think it'll be alright. I'm sure I'm going to tear the rest of them up pretty bad in the coming week anyway, once I get the RRR decals on it I'll clear coat it. I appreciate you sending them to me. I had to take digital close ups of it to see if they were straight though. I need my 3rd eye blind device again, a magnifying glass on a stand I can pose over my subject.


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

And as a final entry on this string here's what that Nova looks like finished. I got the numbers for it today and finished it up. The ghetto looking redlines were home made, an experiment that went nowhere fast. I need some silicones, even at just 12 volts it spins the tires the entire length of the straight, both otherwise it's a great handling car.


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## mking (Apr 25, 2000)

*silicones*

hey pete....how many sets of skinny t-jet silicones do you need? i got TONS of them from 2 different bags of Weird Jacks reject tires, and i pretty much convert my T-jets to Frays, so i dont use those skinny silicones.

How many pairs should i send you? 

Mike


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## fordcowboy (Dec 27, 1999)

Good looking nova. wish i had that talent. :thumbsup: fcb


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

Mike I only have 3 running cars, the rest of the ones Bill sent me found homes with the kids. If you want to send what you have I'll keep a few sets and divide up the rest for the kiddies. 

Lendell...it's a Chevy...that's my only beef with it. I have two move Chevys coming, a '57 to do a childhood favorite and a '65 Impala. I figure if I'm going to mess something up, let it be a bowtie.  The Fords will be coming soon, I'm ordering a little from all the resin guys to see what they look like before I spend a lot of cash building cars for myself.


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