# MaxAmps.com



## Jason MaxAmps (Sep 4, 2007)

Hey gang, just to let you all know I'll be available here to answer or help with anything you may need pertaining to our products we sell at www.maxamps.com . I do this at several on line forums and will now be doing it here. I check the forums quite a few times daily so If you need to ask anything either start a new thread, PM me or e-mail me at [email protected]

Thank for your time,

Jason
MaxAmps Marketing Manager
[email protected]
www.maxamps.com

:woohoo:


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## LARCGuy (Apr 18, 2004)

How does your 4.4K cells compare to the IB4200's? Voltage and runtime comparisons would be great. Thanks


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## Jason MaxAmps (Sep 4, 2007)

They hold their voltage a lot better than the IB's and runtime...........well that all depends on your set-up and driving conditions.

Jason
MaxAmps Marketing Manager
[email protected]
www.maxamps.com


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## HERSHEYSQUIRTS (Jul 30, 2007)

WILL YOUR 4.4K cells BE LEGAL IN '08?


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## Jason MaxAmps (Sep 4, 2007)

I can't honestly say. It's not up to us as to what's legal or not. What would help is if you like them spread the word.

Jason
MaxAmps Marketing Manager
[email protected]
www.maxamps.com


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## brian0525 (Jan 17, 2005)

from the site


> There is a new player in the High Voltage Sub C Market. Meet 4.4K. Guaranteed 1.25! This cell has been specially designed and zapped to hold the highest possible voltage under load.



1.25v under what conditions? kind of an open ended statement!


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## ta_man (Apr 10, 2005)

Jason MaxAmps said:


> I can't honestly say. It's not up to us as to what's legal or not. What would help is if you like them spread the word.
> 
> Jason
> MaxAmps Marketing Manager
> ...


Doesn't the supplier have to submit the cells to ROAR for approval? If so, it would be up to you to do that.


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## Jason MaxAmps (Sep 4, 2007)

brian0525 said:


> from the site
> 
> 
> 1.25v under what conditions? kind of an open ended statement!


 It's Not an opened ended statement it's a gurantee! Open ended would be they might? And they are based off of a brushed set-up but there are many running brushless and loving em'

Jason

MaxAmps Marketing Manager
[email protected]
www.maxamps.com


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## Jason MaxAmps (Sep 4, 2007)

ta_man said:


> Doesn't the supplier have to submit the cells to ROAR for approval? If so, it would be up to you to do that.


Good question and it's one I can't honestly answer at this time. But I will Look into it. Time to make a call to ROAR.

Jason
MaxAmps Marketing Manager
[email protected]
www.maxamps.com


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## swtour (Oct 8, 2001)

Jason,

You need to submit to ROAR for approval, Dawn Sanchez (ROAR V.P.) is here quite a bit in the ROAR section, or just email them to find out how to submit for their approval.

I was recently reading the same voltage specs on your web site, and didn't see any further details on the voltage (Charting info)

So, I guess what the "OVAL" crowd will be interested in is, "Do they hold up to 1.25 volts @ a 35 amps discharge, and for how long?" Or something similar to that...


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## ScottH (Nov 24, 2005)

Jason -- you might want to get ahold of a CE matcher and cycle some of your cells on it and then give these guys some numbers.

This crowd is TOUGH and by no means ignorant of info.

Coming on and saying your cell is 1.25 guaranteed is one thing but to tell them it is under the CONDIDTIONS they run them on is a totally different animal.

You may already know this and if you do just ignore me, most do.


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## LARCGuy (Apr 18, 2004)

Jason MaxAmps said:


> They hold their voltage a lot better than the IB's and runtime...........well that all depends on your set-up and driving conditions.
> 
> Jason
> MaxAmps Marketing Manager
> ...


I guess I didn't ask the question correctly. What do the cells cycle at? I don't care what rate; 30amps, 35amps or 40amps. I just want to see average voltage, runtime, IR and cell cutoff voltage. I will compare that info to what I already know about the IB's. Thanks.


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## brian0525 (Jan 17, 2005)

Jason MaxAmps said:


> It's Not an opened ended statement it's a gurantee! Open ended would be they might? And they are based off of a brushed set-up but there are many running brushless and loving em'
> 
> Jason
> 
> ...


open ended by not stating the conditions such as charge rate, discharge rate, cut-off voltage, etc.

The IB's are 1.30+ when there just sitting there but that doesn't mean anything. Just looking for some specs like the others here have stated.

Thanks


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## Hick (May 22, 2007)

brian0525 said:


> open ended by not stating the conditions such as charge rate, discharge rate, cut-off voltage, etc.
> 
> The IB's are 1.30+ when there just sitting there but that doesn't mean anything. Just looking for some specs like the others here have stated.
> 
> Thanks


http://maxamps.com/policies.php

Check it out! 

I have been using MaxAmp Batteries for 4 years now. No complaints about their guarantee, their batteries and service. I have gotten a few non-performing cells over the years and replacements were on the way as soon as Austin, Clint, Jason or Josh have hung up the phone!

I too was a little skeptical about their batteries and their claims at first. I crunched the numbers... charge/discharge rate, runtime etc... that information was/is posted over at RCTech's forum. I finally gave up with crunching numbers and the arguing, now all I care about is how much voltage at 4/5 minute mark.

For the dollars spent, MaxAmps is the best bang for the buck! Buy a set and run them through the ringer. I am sure you will be pleased!

Dealing with the guys at MaxAmps via the internet/phone is like "looking a man in the eye when shaking his hand." You know you have an honest deal complete with a Guarantee!


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## Jason MaxAmps (Sep 4, 2007)

Thanks Hick, that means a lot.

As for the cells I have the required paper work and have e-mailed it to the guys at the shop so they can review what is required by ROAR. We'll get what we need together and go from there. The IB 4200's that we sell are already approved.

Jason
MaxAmps Marketing Manager
[email protected]
www.maxamps.com


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## swtour (Oct 8, 2001)

...in the game of "VOLTAGE", especially in STOCK and/or 4300 Brushless Oval Racing - guys are very particular about their voltages...at least the guys who are mega seriously competitive.

These guys will spend in excess of $1,000 a year trying to find a pack with a .02 voltage improvement. So I think the basic questions guys are looking for for information here is ..."how does the 35amp discharge voltage compare on a MaxAmp 4400 to a IB4200"


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## fla-racer57 (Feb 4, 2006)

Why don't you list any 4-cell packs ?


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## Hick (May 22, 2007)

swtour said:


> ...in the game of "VOLTAGE", especially in STOCK and/or 4300 Brushless Oval Racing - guys are very particular about their voltages...at least the guys who are mega seriously competitive.
> 
> These guys will spend in excess of $1,000 a year trying to find a pack with a .02 voltage improvement. So I think the basic questions guys are looking for for information here is ..."how does the 35amp discharge voltage compare on a MaxAmp 4400 to a IB4200"


Couldn't tell ya... after testing the 3700's when they were the "newest gotta have", they were at 7.2/30 volts at 5 minutes - by this time I trusted MaxAmps I found no need to question their claims ... now I am switching to MaxAmp LiPo's.

Now, I am not "mega seriously competive"; one of my Teammates gave MaxAmps the 2006 Klein Winternationals one of their first "national" wins, then 2007 won in the RCPro Series Event, which he wouldn't have, had I been there! 

Back at the 2006 Winternationals, IF, I know the meaning of IF, if my Teammates and I weren't so competative MaxAmps would have had the EDM title too! Between us, MaxAmp powered cars won every heat and the Mains. But the averaged mains won out! J-Rod and I have since discussed the room to race bit! He was as guilty as I! We still laugh about it. IF!

I don't think that is too bad for a couple of budgeted weekend (when we can) racers  and a low cost, unlabled battery!

BTW a MaxAmp Lipo'd B/L LM TC3 whooped up on a bunch of gas boys a few months back, it wasn't pretty!


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## Jason MaxAmps (Sep 4, 2007)

fla-racer57,

If your talking four cell 4.4k's or the IB's just call 1-888-654-4450 and talk to one of the guys about making a pack for ya'. And may I ask what you need a 4 cell for?

Jason
MaxAmps Marketing Manager
[email protected]
www.maxamps.com


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## swtour (Oct 8, 2001)

Jason,

1/10th OVAL racing is pretty much exclusively 4 CELL Nationwide...except for the areas that are moving into "LIPO" using the ORION 3200 Carbon style packs. 

(You'll get a lot of OVAL people here on HOBBYTALK, even though this is posted in the GENERAL section)


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## fla-racer57 (Feb 4, 2006)

Thanks SWT
Jason,
we use 4 cell in oval racing, both 10th and 12th scale. the only ones that use 6Cell are touring cars


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## Jason MaxAmps (Sep 4, 2007)

Thanks Guys, it's good to know that. I've been away from the car seen for years. I went to the air............lots of planes to play with but now that the technology is getting better for the cars I need to get some new toys.

Jason
MaxAmps Marketing Manager
[email protected]
www.maxamps.com


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## rcgen (Jan 20, 2004)

I've recently started running lipos but a requirement was the lipo packs had to be in an "hard" case configuration. That only limited to two, well now one manufacture. Do you plan on having a "hard" case type lipo pack in the 7.4volts for the touring cars?

I also run oval and very interested in a "4c" lipo configuration. The current 2c 7.4volt split pack would work fine if it was half the pack and 2c. 7.4 volts of lipo power in a brushless oval car or 1/12 onroad..now we're talking....


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## fla-racer57 (Feb 4, 2006)

RCGen
Check out these

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXRWF7&P=SM


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## Jason MaxAmps (Sep 4, 2007)

We won't be doing a hard pack. We looked into and there are more thing's that are so wrong about sealing up a Li-Po in a hard case than there are good things. For one cars/trucks run at higher amp draws than say most plane set-ups......this high amp power draw is turned into heat and at 125 to 135 degrees cells need to breath......open to the air.......otherwise they can and will in most cases swell or puff. Now take a sealed cell you can't tell accurately how hot it's really getting cause hey it's sealed up in a plastic case........H'mm wonder what it's gonna do when it swells from to much heat. And let face it I and many others have slammed li-po's into the ground at speeds over 60 mph in airplanes and have had many packs still work fine. Other packs have been damaged but never a fire. And it's not like your racing in a bed of nails either. Most cars/trucks the battery is in the chassis away from anything that could possibly hurt it. Another thing is that cased Li-Po's are harder to get into most cars/trucks. I think this is why you now only see one making them cased. I don't expect it last either. When running Li-Po's you need to know what your batteries are doing at all times and when cased you simply have no Idea.

Jason
MaxAmps Marketing Manger
[email protected]
www.maxamps.com


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## gezer2u (Sep 25, 2001)

Your answer is precisely why I don't care for Max Amps. Most of what you say isn't true.
The 3200 lipo pack from Peak/ Orion, are not in a sealed case. They are designed to come apart if the pack swells. They also have a board in them that the solder that connects the cells to the connectors, that melts if there is a dead short. thus stopping the voltage. 

Having flown airplanes for years and having a Tower lipo get dented and having it short out later, I don't think that it is a good idea to proclaiming that it is OK to charge a pack that has had damage. 

On oval cars and most sedans, the battery is on the edge of the chassis. That makes more pron to damage from a side impact. The bumper can and has hit packs hard enough to break the tape that holds them in. Offroad cars are different because the battery is in the middle of the chassis. To say that hard case's are not needed or a good idea is just wrong and misleading.

Also, there are at least 3 different companies that are offering cased lipo's.


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## rcgen (Jan 20, 2004)

fla-racer57 said:


> RCGen
> Check out these
> 
> http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXRWF7&P=SM


I run an RDX PHI and those wont fit. I'm really interested in Maxamps 6000 and 8000 lipo pack. Those are higher capacity then the 3200 Orion I currently run.


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## Jason MaxAmps (Sep 4, 2007)

gezer2u said:


> Your answer is precisely why I don't care for Max Amps. Most of what you say isn't true.
> The 3200 lipo pack from Peak/ Orion, are not in a sealed case. They are designed to come apart if the pack swells. They also have a board in them that the solder that connects the cells to the connectors, that melts if there is a dead short. thus stopping the voltage.
> 
> Having flown airplanes for years and having a Tower lipo get dented and having it short out later, I don't think that it is a good idea to proclaiming that it is OK to charge a pack that has had damage.
> ...



See it worked on you............they've got you scared into buying em'.........I don't know where you got the Tower Li-Po? but I have smashed em' and had em' come loose and hit the prop.........no visable damage and yes charge and use again ........... and still using them. If a pack has a visable cut in it I don't use it again....common sense. But putting a Li-Po into a case that can't breath and then saying that the case will split apart if the cells puff? COME ON if they weren't inside a hard plastic case they would have cooling air and wouldn't puff. Oh and that board it can puncture cells I have had a specific brand do that. That's why most do not use the pc boards anymore.
You can keep trying to scare people into buying cased packs but you only making it worse for everyone in the long run.......your only draggin' out the "old Li-Po's are bad " battle. If your carefull when charging and don't over discharge you'll be alright with normal heat shrink wrapped packs. Heck more Nimh cells have burst as of late than Li-Po's. And all of what I said is true, I care about our customers new and old. I don't want them buying something that won't fit, has the potetial for over heating (oh but will split apart if it does........ come on!) and the possibilty of bursting when charging because it slightly swelled and didn't burst the case until it was to late.......

and I'm being misleading..........????


Believe what you want.

Jason
MaxAmps Marketing Manager
[email protected]
www.maxamps.com


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## fla-racer57 (Feb 4, 2006)

Jason,
If you want to sell to the serious racers you are going to have to put your cells in a hard case. Just check out the rules
This is just one set of rules ! But i'm sure ROAR, and the BRL will have something along the same guide lines

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=190999


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## 420 Tech R/C (Sep 15, 2006)

Wow quite a discussion gentlemen, Bottom line NiMh cells/packs are just as dangerous as li-po's. Li-pos have gotten a bad rap due to a few people not taking care of them properly in their early days. The same people are the guys who have their NiMh cells dead short and explode, or think that they can charge a 6 cell pack @ 10 amps.. Bottom line is that this hobby takes a certain amount of common sense COMBINED with skills of many types.Mechanical skills, electrical skills, painting skills, just to name a few.The problem is that some people do not posess all the skills (or in some cases the common sense)NEEDED to enjoy a hobby like ours SAFELY.I am not saying that ALL of the explosions or meltdowns by either type of power source can be attributed to these factors, but I bet if we knew the TRUE stories behind them more than 80% can be attributed to human error in some way.I have read your discussion here and both of you bring up MANY VERY VALID POINTS.I for one am for caseless li-po's for 2 main reasons. Better cooling to try and keep from swelling the cells, or giving them a reason to swell, and so you can visibly inspect the cell BEFORE EVERY CHARGE. As for the better protection from impact aguement , although some what valid, We have ran bare Ni-cad and Nimh cells for decades and the risks associated with them are not really that different in an impact situation. Maybe people should start running cup style battery trays with bare li-po's for impact purposes if they are worried about the battery's location in the model.Hey then you could still inspect them for damage between runs and they would still get adequate ventilation out of the deal.Sounds like a no brainer to me fella's.. The deal is NEITHER of the electric power sources are completely safe, or idiot proof. Also those people out there who cant take care of NiMh cells properly HAVE NO BUSINESS dealing with li-pos simply because these are the people who will be most likely to end up getting hurt no matter how many safe guards you try and put there to keep people safe. Alittle off the subject, but thats why I despise the RTR craze with nitro vehicles so much. Yes its grown the hobby world drastically, but it makes it too easy to put some thing potentially dangerous in the hands of someone with no businness using it in the first place.PERFECT example Traxxass JATO RTR.. It does 70 out of the box. This is no toy obviously, but manny times I have seen them for sale on e-bay , listed by parents who are getting rid of it because their kids hurt themselves or someone else with it when the 13 year old who probally has no experience in modeling previously,was just playing with the TOY truck momand dad bought him for his birthday. pretty picture ,huh. well it happens in the electric world too guys, sorry but RTR's are going to be the down fall of our hobby.When people dont realize that even if its considered a toy by some , it is powered,and thats the key word here gentle men ,powered, it is powered by some source of energy.Energy in general DEMANDS respect. Without respect and an understanding of WHY you should respect it, Energy of any form will jump up and give you one hell of a reason Why it should be respected and handled like its dangerous,,,Because it IS!!!


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## Hick (May 22, 2007)

I can make my own hard case out 1/16 or 3/32 sheet Aluminum. As long as it protects battery and keeps it inside the car - why care?

Besides it ain't the boom that hurts you, it's the debris resulting from the boom that will!


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## swtour (Oct 8, 2001)

The sealed LIPO thread doesn't really belong in the MaxAmps thread, especially since we (The OVAL crowd) is moving toward a Single MFG. for the LiPo "sealed" battery.

This isn't something that is being done solely in the name of safety, but moreso in the name of 'control'. By controlling the battery to a single type and style of LiPo, it is hoped we can avoid a lot of the battery issues we continuously have w / multiple types, brands and mah ratings in the NiMh cells.

The 3200 Carbon Edition from Peak/Orion serves the purpose for MOST of the oval racers just fine..provides plenty of punch, power and run time to do 5 minute racing...or more. Plus, since only ONE MFG. is allowed, it's really easy to tech, and the voltage curve of these packs has proved to be so very close tolerenced, that from battery to battery to is virtually NO performance advantage.


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## Hick (May 22, 2007)

Roflmao!


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## brian0525 (Jan 17, 2005)

Hick what kind of racing do you do?

Jason, who is it that makes the Max Amps cells?


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## Jason MaxAmps (Sep 4, 2007)

Brian0525 if you ever open up one of our packs you will find out. It's right on each cell.

Jason
MaxAmps Marketing Manager
[email protected]
www.maxamps.com


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## brian0525 (Jan 17, 2005)

Jason MaxAmps said:


> Brian0525 if you ever open up one of our packs you will find out. It's right on each cell.
> 
> Jason
> MaxAmps Marketing Manager
> ...


What kind of answer is that? You aren't allowed to say?


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## Hick (May 22, 2007)

brian0525 said:


> Hick what kind of racing do you do?
> 
> Jason, who is it that makes the Max Amps cells?


Fun!!! Ovals.


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## LARCGuy (Apr 18, 2004)

You know, for a support/promoting thread for a particular manufacturer, this is really a bad joke. I don't ever recall a manufacture's rep never answering any direct questions asked of his/hers companies products.

This all has the feeling of a company selling products out of the back of a van. "We have better products than anyone else, we just won't tell you anything about them". Nice motto.


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## gezer2u (Sep 25, 2001)

You can't come here and say things that you can't back up with facts and photos. How can you say that you can slice'em and dice'em and they will be safe. Their "About Us" page speaks for it's self. Judge for yourself. 

I am a supporter of Lipo and have been since the beginning of the year. ANybody here knows that. I think it is irresponsible companies that are the one's who are going to hurt lipo in the long run by posting info like you have done. It seems that they want to make money over safety. I bet if MaxAmps had spent the money on a protective case, they would say it is the greatest thing. Just "Common sense". It might be fine for plane's, heli's and off road not to have a hard case. But, not for cars that have exposed batteries. That is just "common sense".

As for the pack swelling, the two cells would separate in the middle and lift the two half's apart. Even if there were a small amount of swelling. 

Here is pic's of a Peak Lipo that was in a car that had a speedo that went to a direct short. Good thing that the Circuit board was there. The pack was fully charged.





















Come on man, just be honest about your product. If it is that good, they will speak for it's self.


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## cola (Dec 10, 2004)

This is a support form not a place to bash other companies products. Jason is here to help answer your questions about max amps batteries and support equipment. Please keep this on topic and stop this nonsense.

David


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## gezer2u (Sep 25, 2001)

If this is a support forum, it is in the wrong section and violates TOS. I thought it was a discussion thread, That is what we are doing.


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## guver (Jul 31, 2002)

I'd be happy with the answer to the "numbers" question on the 4.4K cells. lol.


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## Jason MaxAmps (Sep 4, 2007)

Like I said before I'm here if you have questions about our products not for a fight. If all you want to do is bewat up on me then fine go ahead. I came here to offer support to anyone that needed it for our products. I do this at several forums and I will be honest I have never been treated this bad before. There's a reason small forums stay small.....if any of you have legit questions you need answered feel free to contact me a [email protected]. I'm sorry to say but I'm calling it quits here because it's quite obvious that this type of badgering will never stop. Cola don't worry about it.

Thanks its been a hoot.

Jason
MaxAmps Marketing Manager
[email protected]
www.maxamps.com


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## swtour (Oct 8, 2001)

Jason,

I just think you came here without the answers the guys on this site are accustom to hearing from other MFGs.

Strangely, I know several of us have looked at your website prior to your posting here..and had very similar questions. Being "OVAL" racers we look for very fine numbers. (No this isn't a 100% oval site - but sometimes It seems really close)

OFFROAD RACING and ONROAD RACING is about turning left and right...and very rarely do you get 100% out of a battery. In OVAL racing, especially on a carpet track or other high bite SHORT track type of racing, you are dealing with guys looking at bettering their lap times by .01 seconds and look for EVERY oz. of voltage they can. 

..part of the problem with this thread I do believe is its location. HobbyTalk does have a section for Product Support, where the 'general' sections are for more open discussions...and do have a tendency to get beat up a bit...


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## ScottH (Nov 24, 2005)

Chucking in the towel is not the way to win this battle, yes it can be won and these guys can be won over.

But you will not win them over with claims, but with numbers and PROOF.

In post #3 you stated *"They hold their voltage a lot better than the IB's and runtime...........well that all depends on your set-up and driving conditions."*

That in and of itself is a BOLD statement to make without the proof to back it up.

In your defense, you may not have had any idea what you were getting yourself into by coming in here and making that kind of claim. But like I said, these guys KNOW THEIR STUFF and will not be bluffed. These guys spend TONS of time and energy on their batteries, I know I used to. They have battery logs that would rival most scientific laboratories and their records.

If you claim the 4.4k cells are better and you know it. Show them the numbers on the equipment they test cells on.

This is a tough crowd, just put on some asbestos underware and enjoy the warmth.


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## LARCGuy (Apr 18, 2004)

*snip*


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## brian0525 (Jan 17, 2005)

Asking who makes the cells seems like a support question to me anyhow!

Asking with what condition your 4.4k cells have 1.25v also is support related but you dodge them so you must not have come here for that.

thanks anyway!


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## RPM (Dec 20, 2004)

swtour said:


> The sealed LIPO thread doesn't really belong in the MaxAmps thread, especially since we (The OVAL crowd) is moving toward a Single MFG. for the LiPo "sealed" battery.
> 
> This isn't something that is being done solely in the name of safety, but moreso in the name of 'control'. By controlling the battery to a single type and style of LiPo, it is hoped we can avoid a lot of the battery issues we continuously have w / multiple types, brands and mah ratings in the NiMh cells.
> 
> The 3200 Carbon Edition from Peak/Orion serves the purpose for MOST of the oval racers just fine..provides plenty of punch, power and run time to do 5 minute racing...or more. Plus, since only ONE MFG. is allowed, it's really easy to tech, and the voltage curve of these packs has proved to be so very close tolerenced, that from battery to battery to is virtually NO performance advantage.



I disagree.. In a five minute race performance power curve in NOT an issue.

The carbon Lipo-ion Peak/Orion packs has a lower burst rating then the Lipo poly packs. These Lipo poly cells are much safer to use and does not require a hard case around the pack.

The lipo poly batteries will soon be the norm in all power tools.


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## swtour (Oct 8, 2001)

RPM,

We've already proved that DIFFERENT LIPOS perform differently...

HEAD to HEAD simply using the two ORION Sealed packs

The 3200 vs the 4800

One being a 2s 1p where the other is a 2s 2p, the VOLTAGE drop in the 2s 2p was a lot lower than the 2s 1p (You have figure it would be like running 2 of ANY type of packs in parallel, each pack only gets pulled 1/2 as hard as a SINGLE pack would.

With EVERYTHING else being the same - we were able to run well over a LAP faster w/ the 2s 2p pack and it had the ability to have geared it stronger..and gone MUCH faster.


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## RPM (Dec 20, 2004)

I'm simply saying that the Orion/Peak Lipos are out dated...

Lipo poly is the new battery. :thumbsup:


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## guver (Jul 31, 2002)

You are talking about Li-ion (A-123) ?


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## gezer2u (Sep 25, 2001)

RPM said:


> I'm simply saying that the Orion/Peak Lipos are out dated...
> 
> Lipo poly is the new battery. :thumbsup:



Really??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-polymer


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## gezer2u (Sep 25, 2001)

Sorry, double post.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-polymer


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## swtour (Oct 8, 2001)

RPM,

I don't think I'd agree that the orion is outdated, it surely isn't the NEW tech in the LIPO market for sure (Which is one of the things we are banking on) It's been around over 2 years...it's PROVEN, it has a great track record...and it's More than plenty battery for our OVAL needs.

Too often we try to be at the front end of technology...and because it changes so fast...it KILLS the racers wallets, budgets and spirits. Hopefully, we'll be able to do something with this simple 3200 for a least ONE FULL YEAR - maybe MORE. Who knows what kind of POWER RODS we'll be using in 2010.


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## RPM (Dec 20, 2004)

Its all about economics and what the market is pointing too.
Not only taking about the R/C market.

Lipo poly cells are made cheaper.

In a years time the nickel metal hydride sub C cells will no longer going to be manufactured for R/C unless sub C size cell is increased.
Time will tell for sure.

The Lipo poly cells are going to be used in most new power tools.
So I see the Lipo poly cells technology only increasing over time.


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## Hick (May 22, 2007)

swtour said:


> RPM,
> 
> I don't think I'd agree that the orion is outdated, it surely isn't the NEW tech in the LIPO market for sure (Which is one of the things we are banking on) It's been around over 2 years...it's PROVEN, it has a great track record...and it's More than plenty battery for our OVAL needs.
> 
> Too often we try to be at the front end of technology...and because it changes so fast...it KILLS the racers wallets, budgets and spirits. Hopefully, we'll be able to do something with this simple 3200 for a least ONE FULL YEAR - maybe MORE. Who knows what kind of POWER RODS we'll be using in 2010.


I don't get it, killing the Racers Wallets. Why on Earth would alledge sactioning body only allow one manufactures battery! If a racer finds a battery equal to or better than this "golden" battery at less cost to the racer, then why can't it be used...

Racing will never be a hobby/or sport where to competitors will be absolutely equal, and in my perception that's what these spin-off sactioning body's are trying to do! Level the playing field!


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## ta_man (Apr 10, 2005)

RPM said:


> Its all about economics and what the market is pointing too.
> Not only taking about the R/C market.
> 
> Lipo poly cells are made cheaper.
> ...


What is "Lipo poly"? Lithium Polymer Polymer?


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## brian0525 (Jan 17, 2005)

ta_man said:


> What is "Lipo poly"? Lithium Polymer Polymer?


That's what I was asking while reading this train wreck!

RPM please clarify what you mean cause the new tech is the a123(going in power tools) which is a Li-ion not a Poly cell so what do you mean? The soft poly packs sold by most is the same type of cell found in the Orion hard case. Just a better cell than many others. The a123 is a better cell and I think that is something most that know anything about the 2 types of cells will agree too, but they are behind because the poly cells have been in use longer and have been accepted by the market place and chargers are more readily available for them than the a123 cells. 

Joe is right you can't have the latest technology always cause the support products aren't there for them yet but we will see even better batteries in the next few years for sure. Then we can discuss it all again! lol


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## RPM (Dec 20, 2004)

Hick said:


> I don't get it, killing the Racers Wallets.  Why on Earth would alledge sactioning body only allow one manufactures battery! If a racer finds a battery equal to or better than this "golden" battery at less cost to the racer, then why can't it be used...
> 
> Racing will never be a hobby/or sport where to competitors will be absolutely equal, and in my perception that's what these spin-off sactioning body's are trying to do! Level the playing field!


Your not the only one that feels this way.

Most of the racers I talk too agree with what you said above. :thumbsup:


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## kevinm (Jan 16, 2002)

ta_man said:


> What is "Lipo poly"? Lithium Polymer Polymer?


It's Polymer - *Squared!* Twice the power of LiPo! :jest: 

But seriously, RPM - Please *read the link* gezer2u posted above. There's no such thing as "Lipo Poly".


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## splashrc (Jul 9, 2007)

RPM said:


> Its all about economics and what the market is pointing too.
> Not only taking about the R/C market.
> 
> Lipo poly cells are made cheaper.
> ...


Here in Cali we are using the orion battery packs without any problem
I do not know what RPM is talking about problem is I dont think he does either


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## gezer2u (Sep 25, 2001)

The reason that ARCOR, SWT and others has spec'd one manufacturer is to cut cost for the racer. Every brand is different in performance. Some are even better or worse from batch to batch. So by saying one manufacture is the only battery, it keeps cost down because racers don't feel that racer A has a better battery then them. I would guess that most of us Peak/ Orion racers don't want the NiMh type of battery wars. Also, this type of feeling that you should be able to run what ever manufacture you want, has been discussed to death regarding the Tekin speedo. Just remove Tekin and insert Lipo. Same thing.


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## RPM (Dec 20, 2004)

kevinm said:


> It's Polymer - *Squared!* Twice the power of LiPo! :jest:
> 
> But seriously, RPM - Please *read the link* gezer2u posted above. There's no such thing as "Lipo Poly".


It's my abbreviation for Lipo Polymer. :woohoo:


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## RPM (Dec 20, 2004)

splashrc said:


> Here in Cali we are using the orion battery packs without any problem
> I do not know what RPM is talking about problem is I dont think he does either


Put the crack pipe down!!!

Read it again.


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## ta_man (Apr 10, 2005)

RPM said:


> It's my abbreviation for Lipo Polymer. :woohoo:


There is no such thing is "Lipo Polymer" either. Maybe you mean "Lithium Polymer"? The "Polymer" is the "*Po*" already in the name "Li*Po*"


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## swtour (Oct 8, 2001)

...maybe they are just PoPo batteries...LOL 

Lithium Ion - Polymer is the make up of the current Li-Po cells...

Do a Google Search on that - and you'll find some good reading about their history...


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## RPM (Dec 20, 2004)

ta_man said:


> There is no such thing is "Lipo Polymer" either. Maybe you mean "Lithium Polymer"? The "Polymer" is the "*Po*" already in the name "Li*Po*"


Yes..Lithium Polymer.....

Boy, if you guys where half as technical about the batteries then with me we would be getting somewhere..

That still doesn't change the fact with Lithium Polymer cells
are better then Onion/Peak cells.


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## brian0525 (Jan 17, 2005)

RPM said:


> Yes..Lithium Polymer.....
> 
> Boy, if you guys where half as technical about the batteries then with me we would be getting somewhere..
> 
> ...


Dude they are Lithium Polymer? :freak:


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## swtour (Oct 8, 2001)

...exactly dude...the Peak/Orion 3200's (In the sealed casing) known as the "Carbon Edition" ARE Li-Po....which is what a lot of us OVAL guys are switching too.

The I.B. cells we use in "Sub 'C'" packs are 4200 Nickel Metal Hydride packs (Nimh), these are the cells we wanted to know how the MaxAmps 4400's compare to.

...even I'm getting confused NOW - what were we talking about?

(Glad I don't have to actually take MY batteries THIS serious...I would have quit racing 2 decades ago...)


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## DARKSCOPE001 (Jun 14, 2006)

hey guys I have just a few questions and a few things to say so just bear with me. and also know that all of what i say is mostly based on a hunch and may not transfer over to rc use (you will see what im talking about) ok so first off I wanted to addres the issue of lipoly being dangerous. well first off If they were truly dangerous I dont think they would be used in every day devices such as cellphones, mp3 players, laptops, cameras, and other various devices. now I say this may not transfer over to the rc world because In those uses the discharge rate is much much lower and I dont think the charge rate is close to 1c but I am unsure at this point. I could do some research and get back to you on that. now about the whole good and bad features on the team orion and peak lipos. You al make amazing arguments that I pry could never thing up myself. but one feature that I realy do like is the 2s2p on the platnam pack. and the pc board. but I think that if lipos are treated with respect and we properly matinance our cars we should not have any problems. also do any of you know if we are close to approval of lipos with roar and ifmar. because I contacted roar the other day and was told that at this time it is unknown not even the slightest hint of when or if they will be approved. so if anyone knows anything i would appreceate it

THANKS
Sean Scott


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## hankster (Jan 1, 1998)

Poorly made LiPo packs can catch fire in any product. Google for info on Sony battery recall.... I think the number is now over 10 million packs that have been recalled so far.

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/products/2006-10-02-sony-battery-fallout_x.htm


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## DARKSCOPE001 (Jun 14, 2006)

yea I heard about that hank. and your right. do you consider the maxamps to be poorly made? because I know nothing about lipo and want to take the plunge but I heard that the sony batterys were due to a metal flake conamanation. well Im off to read the article and see if my memory serves me good. 

THANKS
Sean Scott


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## hankster (Jan 1, 1998)

I do not consider anything because they will not tell us who manufactures their cells.


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## gndprx (Aug 30, 2006)

swtour said:


> The I.B. cells we use in "Sub 'C'" packs are 4200 Nickel Metal Hydride packs (Nimh), these are the cells we wanted to know how the MaxAmps 4400's compare to.


Since this is the lipo forum, I won't get too off topic...but I have to voice in on this one.

After 3 weeks of running the 4.4k packs in both 4-cell oval and 6-cell offroad I can say that for oval use, they are not up to snuff compared to the IB's. My BL doesn't show me a graph without a printer, but of the 4 of us that tried them at our track, only one person likes them...the only difference is that his pack is much older than ours. 

Out of 3 new packs floating around the track, they come off the charger (135+ degrees to peak) and have great voltage, but in a 10 min run they drop off considerably at several points during the race. I have my EPA set to 47% at the start of the race to hit an 8 second lap and by the end of the race I'm dialed up to 55% to keep the same lap times. My IB's could stay within 1% of my starting the entire race and not drop off until the end. Charging at the recomended 4.4A and cycling at 30A. 

All 3 recent packs are showing this trend which for a breakout class is a BAD thing. 

For offroad, it's still noticable on a 4300 but not as critical so I'm not in a rush to replace my 6-cell right now. The 4-cell is getting replaced with another 4200 pack at my first opportunity.


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## kevinm (Jan 16, 2002)

gndprx said:


> ... Out of 3 new packs floating around the track, they come off the charger (135+ degrees to peak) and have great voltage, but in a 10 min run they drop off considerably at several points during the race. I have my EPA set to 47% at the start of the race to hit an 8 second lap and by the end of the race I'm dialed up to 55% to keep the same lap times...


 I find this post somewhat confusing. If I'm interpreting this post correctly, you are running a 4-cell oval class for 10 minutes, and setting your transmitter at around 50% throttle so that your lap times are just *over* 8 seconds to prevent you from being disqualified?


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## gndprx (Aug 30, 2006)

Correct, the goal of the breakout class is to run as close to 8 seconds as you can. I'm currently way over-motored and with my IB pack I can keep at 48-49% the entire run an run 8.0-8.2 depending on the line. 

In this class, we run 2 6min qualifiers and a 10min main. (For those keeping track, yes I run a lot of various classes at different times so I'm kinda all over in some of my posts...sorry to confuse)

With the max amps pack, the voltage drops off about 1/3 of the way into the run and I have to bump to around 50% to hold the same times and by the 8 min mark I'm bumping to about 53-55% and running a tight line to hold the times. This seems to be pretty average for those using these packs at our track. There are only 2 of us still sticking with them so far. The others have gone back to IB packs.

Anything faster than 8 seconds and the lap doesn't count.


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## gndprx (Aug 30, 2006)

(I'm sorry, I know this is the LiPo forum, but this is where the thread lives that started the 4.4k discussion) 

Update on my experience with the 4.4k cells

About 12 races into the pack it's starting to even out across the run however a charge/discharge issue has poked it's head up.

When it kicks off the peak (4.4A charge, .03 peak on CE Turbo35) the cell temperatures are as follows: 115/117/132/149 from one end of the pack to the other, cell by cell. 34 degree variation between the cells.

After a run, I place them into a zero30 and 3 of the 4 cells are dumped. The last cell is still lighting up as bright as could be. I set it to dump just the remaining cell and it takes about 3-4 minutes to bring it down to the same level as the other 3. 

My first thought was that it just needed to be equalized. Trayed the pack for about 4 hours, let it cool and cycled it twice on the CE at 4.4/30 and ended up with the same results as above with the temps varying a few degrees one way or the other...but always with a huge variation across the pack and one cell outlasting the other 3 by several minutes.

I emailed MaxAmps and have not received a response yet.

At this point, I have chosen to go back to IB4200's and take my chances with the self discharge. At least I can rely on them during the race.


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