# what is h.o. scale 1/64 or 1/87?



## Marko

I had a car returned from a buyer on ebay because the man who purchased it said it was not 1/87th scale or h.o. I thought Aurora t-jets were h.o. scale or 1/64th. So, was I ignorant all these years thinking h.o. scale is 1/64th? Or is h.o. scale 1/87th? That is how I list all my t-jets, vibrators or thunderjets from AW, that is h.o. scale or 1/64th. Any body have any info on that? Thanks!!


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## slotnewbie69

true ho is half o guage,and if you look at ho cars for railway scenery,they are even smaller than tjets.ho is a misnomer and is used as a catch all scale.tjets are close,and afx are larger.i believe 1/87 is tjets,and afx are 1/64.hope this helps


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## ParkRNDL

Aurora Vibrators, the cars Aurora made before Tjets, were originally called HO because they were intended to be an accessory to make HO train layouts and villages look more realistic. slotnewbie is right... HO is 1/87, but the Vibes were about 1/76-1/80... that was as small as they could feasibly get and still fit the motor under the body. When HO cars took off as their own racing hobby, Tjets migrated up to about 1/72-1/76... still kinda usable with HO trains. By the time Tycopro and AFX came along, the train/slot car connection was not really emphasized anymore, and they made the cars bigger (about 1/64, roughly the same as Matchbox and Hot Wheels) to accommodate the improvements they made to the chassis...

--rick


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## NTxSlotCars

For some, this is a heavy subject, dragons, reptiles, to others it sounds fishy. 

1/64th scale is actually "S" scale in train world.
1/87th scale is "HO" or half "O" scale.
1/48th scale is "O" scale.

Most 'HO' slot cars are actually "S" scale.
Tjets are closer to 1/76th-1/78th scale, kind of their own scale.
I use 1/72nd scale figures for diorama with tjets. "HO" scale figures seem kinda small.

Hope this helps.


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## Marko

Thank you very much, slotnewbie69, parkRNDL and NTxSlotCars, I appreciate the info. Yes, it does clear it up. Now that I know, I will be a bit more specific when listing. There are a whole lot of listings that are not accurate, that is now apparent. Again, thanks!!


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## ParkRNDL

it's funny. i was thinking that your buyer had to be pretty brainless not to know what an HO scale slot car is; after all, they've been advertised that way for years--they're not the same as HO trains, they're just called that because they always were. so i just went downstairs where I have a bunch of old ratty Tyco and AFX boxes decorating the walls of the slot car dungeon--i figure, they all have to say HO, right? wrong. the last box I have that says HO was from the '70s. all the '80s and later stuff does NOT have HO on it, not that I can find, anyway. though, to be fair, the packaging from the original Johnny Lightning pullbacks from around 2000 (?) DOES say that the bodies fit on HO scale slot car chassis...

--rick


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## foxkilo

Just for the sake of comprehensiveness, 00 scale as used by many british marques (Hornby, Airfix) is 1/76. 

Mario


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## AfxToo

There is no standard for HO slot cars because every individual car model is modeled independently and with little regard for adherence to a standard. The same HO slot car model of the same 1:1 car made by different manufacturers targeting the same scale can be radically different in scale (case in point: TycoPro Javelin versus Aurora A/FX Javelin). Even within a single manufacturer, the relative scale of different models can be radically different (case in point Aurora VW bug versus Aurora Dodge Charger Daytona).

The fact that HO scale in slot cars is not a standard is in fact a defacto standard. No HO slot car is 1:87th scale. If you buy an HO slot car from a picture and you do not know what you are buying then you are accepting the risk that it may not be the size you expect. Tyco is famous for putting "1:87" scale on their packaging regardless of the scale of the car. A far better way to differentiate between the cars in the same ballpark is to stipulate what CHASSIS the body fits on if it does not have a chassis. If the car has a chassis, make sure you show it in the pictures. 

Anyone who would return an HO slot car because it wasn't the size they expected should be collecting Beanie Babies.


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## ParkRNDL

AfxToo said:


> Anyone who would return an HO slot car because it wasn't the size they expected should be collecting Beanie Babies.


LOL. Yeah, that WAS my initial thought too...

--rick


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## A/FX Nut

AfxToo said:


> There is no standard for HO slot cars because every individual car model is modeled independently and with little regard for adherence to a standard. The same HO slot car model of the same 1:1 car made by different manufacturers targeting the same scale can be radically different in scale (case in point: TycoPro Javelin versus Aurora A/FX Javelin). Even within a single manufacturer, the relative scale of different models can be radically different (case in point Aurora VW bug versus Aurora Dodge Charger Daytona).



I'm thinking each manufacturer was trying to fit their body to their chassis. What do you think?

Randy.


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## AfxToo

Absolutely. The chassis usually sets the scale.


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## SwamperGene

> "...I'm sorry but I'd like to return Snuggles the Bear, you incorrectly stated he was a "Beanie Baby" when in fact he's filled with_ plastic beads_, not beans as you implied....had you correctly called him a _Beadie Baby_ I would not have purchased it in the first place...."


.....:freak:


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## NTxSlotCars

AfxToo said:


> Even within a single manufacturer, the relative scale of different models can be radically different (case in point Aurora VW bug versus Aurora Dodge Charger Daytona).


Having never seen one in person, I always thought the Daytona was so fast because it was so small!!! :freak: Can you imagine? This must be why kids have a hard time relating to reality. It's not just slot cars, Hot Wheels are the same way. Put that HW Vega next to a HW Fire truck. Race car drivers are the same way. You see them on TV and think they are regular size, but then you meet em and they're all 5ft tall. I thought they were all being girls when they were crying over Danica having a weight advantage, because none of them could possibly weigh more than, what, 140lbs? I guess that's why they all look like astronauts with their helmets on.

So, I don't know what this guy was thinkin returning a slot car because it wasn't the correct scale. 
Gees, he must really get upset when he buys a bag of chips.


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## Joe65SkylarkGS

Here's an actual 1/87 scale blue GN then a T-Jet then AFX.


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## 1976Cordoba

The pic by Joe65SkylarkGS perfectly sums up this thread.


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## jlong

For a little trivia, in the model RR industry, HO scale started out as "HO Gauge" which is the distance between the rails (roughly 5/8"), not necessarily the scale. There were differences between manufacturers when it came to scale. Like with slot cars, the trains all ran on the same track gauge. Eventully, a standards group (NMRA) settled on 1/87 scale for HO because the gauge works out to 4'-8 1/2" between the rails in the real world.

To put it in a nutshell, if it says HO on the box, it means it will run on HO slot car track.


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## Marko

Thanks for the pic Joe! It really helps to see the difference. The buyer should share some of the burden, I agree. But, I subscribe to the customer is always right view. (even when not always the case). I am happy to refund the money, no ranting email or dispute need to be filed. Oh well, I did learn a lot from you guys, so thanks again!!


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## Joe65SkylarkGS

Marko said:


> Thanks for the pic Joe! It really helps to see the difference. The buyer should share some of the burden, I agree. But, I subscribe to the customer is always right view. (even when not always the case). I am happy to refund the money, no ranting email or dispute need to be filed. Oh well, I did learn a lot from you guys, so thanks again!!


Cool. Ebay needs more sellers like you.

Although he's not to bright.


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## Bill Hall

*Know yer hobby*

Barn Door HO.

1/72 is 15 points shy...

and as Rick correctly pointed out; 1/64 is "S" which is 23 points from the mark.

Where we always get into trouble is when the "exacting scratch type modeling world" crosses the path of the "close enough for me bunch". More common in the Model Railroading world but pops up in slot land too, especially when trains and cars collide.

Dunno if the buyer was using the purchase as a static display er what. Regardless, a true HO scale slot car DOES NOT EXIST...and NEVER has.


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## NTxSlotCars

What about the MicroMachines?


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## Bill Hall

Are they 1/87 ...er just close.


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## SplitPoster

There easily COULD be an HO scale slot car on a vibe chassis - largish car or truck on the small, short vibe frame - always thought the vibe Vette was as close as it got, or is that just because the roadster driver is so tiny?

HW are more like "box scale" - sized to fit the standard package.


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## ParkRNDL

I don't think I'd consider MicroMachines slots to be HO... If you've ever looked, they're pretty distorted and cartoonish...

But didn't Tomy recently release a Japan-market set with smaller cars? If I recall, they're not compatible with "standard" HO rail spacing...


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## pshoe64

jlong said:


> To put it in a nutshell, if it says HO on the box, it means it will run on HO slot car track.


There's always an exception. The Matchbox slot cars are "HO" but ran a much more narrow spacing of their pick up shoes. Most will not make adequate electrical contact to run on most of the HO tracks. But they adapt easily to 4-Gear chassis!:thumbsup:

-Paul


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## old blue

So the Tyco S chassis was telling us what scale it was all along!

I just made the connection.
Old Blue


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