# Round 2 Cancel Alien Queen



## miniature sun (May 1, 2005)

News on Facebook is that Round 2 have cancelled the Alien Queen kit announced last year. This follows on from the Wicked Witch and King Kong cancellations.
Doesn't bode well for the Kane and Sulaco kits now....I find it astonishing that they have the Alien license but seem unable to do anything with it...


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

Perhaps they overplayed their hand with the big Enterprise and it did not create the capital they had hoped to fund other ambitious projects?!


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## Fozzie (May 25, 2009)

Word is that their figure kits have not sold well and so they are getting out of that business and sticking to vehicles.


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

Bummer but I had a feeling this would happen. If they're concentrating on vehicles though let's have a Nostromo.


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## RMC (Aug 11, 2004)

well at least we still have the sulaco ship to look forward to right ?


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## Kremin (Sep 26, 2012)

I hope Kane makes it to the shelves


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## RogueJ (Oct 29, 2000)

I'm beginning not to believe anything coming out or reporting to be coming out from Round 2. Tired of having my hopes dashed. My bet, we won't see the Kane come out either.


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

Kremin said:


> I hope Kane makes it to the shelves







As I've said a few times.......don't worry about kits like Kong and Kane being cancelled by R2. Some resin guys can do something very similar to those.

It's the plastic kits (that can only be done by big companies like R2) being cancelled that's the problem.


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## Hunk A Junk (Jan 28, 2013)

A really good move now would be for Round 2 to immediately report they're working on the Nostromo. I repeat: a really GOOD move would be to announce a Nostromo. Hint-hint.


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## JediPuju (Oct 12, 2009)

F*ck . I was really looking forward to queenie.


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## GSaum (May 26, 2005)

JediPuju said:


> F*ck . I was really looking forward to queenie.


Me too. I've never done figures before, but I was considering trying them out with these models from the Alien franchise. C'est la vie!


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## JeffG (May 10, 2004)

Hunk A Junk said:


> A really good move now would be for Round 2 to immediately report they're working on the Nostromo. I repeat: a really GOOD move would be to announce a Nostromo. Hint-hint.


No, no, no! First they have to re release an old terrible kit of something that nobody wants and see if it'll sell, then they MAY think about producing a kit that they know modelers already want.


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## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

Good grief. I don't understand why Round 2 even bothers to secure licenses for properties like Star Trek and the Alien franchise. Obviously they don't have the means or wherewithal to actually bring new kits to market. 

So frustrating...


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## JeffG (May 10, 2004)

I wish like Hell that Moebius had got the license to do the Alien kits. I'm sure they'd do more than frame it and hang it on a wall. Sorry for griping. I know a lot goes into mass producing a kit, but damn!


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## phicks (Nov 5, 2002)

Cancelled Round2 kits:

Star Trek Akira
2009 Star Trek Movie Enterprise
King Kong
Wicked Witch
Thor
Alien Queen

Stuff that has been announced but not manufactured for over a year:

Star Trek Galileo 7
Alien Kane
Aliens Sulaco

This is getting very frustrating. Although the latest cancellations only include figure kits, R2 has cancelled (Star Trek) ships in the past, so cancelling any of the overdue ships is still possible.


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## hal9001 (May 28, 2008)

I didn't know the *Galileo* had been canceled! So_* DAMN*_! for that and _*DAMN*_! for the *Aliens Queen* and *DAMN*! for *Kane* too!!!

Oh yeah, and _*DAMN*_! for the *Oz Witch*!

So.....just......*DAMN*!

Carl-


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## Fozzie (May 25, 2009)

hal9001 said:


> I didn't know the *Galileo* had been canceled! So_* DAMN*_! for that and _*DAMN*_! for the *Aliens Queen* and *DAMN*! for *Kane* too!!!
> 
> Oh yeah, and _*DAMN*_! for the *Oz Witch*!
> 
> ...


The Galileo has NOT been canceled.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Jumping to conclusions is like an Olympic sport around here!


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

Perhaps a little OT, but kinda sorta related: I just read about the end of Cultman's forum. R2's shrinking, I'm pretty sure not because they don't want to make kits and have a successful business, but I'm afraid because the business just isn't there. And Cultman's forum, which was pretty hard-core modellers, had dwindled to a shadow of itself in the last few years. There's the Proteus, which has sort of been announced by Moebius, and maybe someday injection 2001 kits, but really, are there any other grail kits left that haven't been produced now? We'd all like some larger scale Trek kits like the Klingon battlecruisers and better Aliens kits, but would anyone else except HobbyTalk and SSM members buy them? Doesn't seem to have happened for the 1/350 TOS E. Maybe we've lived through the new golden age of SF modelling. I know I've got enough of a backlog of projects and kits waiting to be built/finished to outlast me. I'm just thankful for what a great run the last few years has been.


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## BlackbirdCD (Oct 31, 2003)

Carson Dyle said:


> Good grief. I don't understand why Round 2 even bothers to secure licenses for properties like Star Trek and the Alien franchise. Obviously they don't have the means or wherewithal to actually bring new kits to market.
> 
> So frustrating...


Yep. License squatters


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

starseeker said:


> Perhaps a little OT, but kinda sorta related: I just read about the end of Cultman's forum. R2's shrinking, I'm pretty sure not because they don't want to make kits and have a successful business, but I'm afraid because the business just isn't there. And Cultman's forum, which was pretty hard-core modellers, had dwindled to a shadow of itself in the last few years. There's the Proteus, which has sort of been announced by Moebius, and maybe someday injection 2001 kits, but really, are there any other grail kits left that haven't been produced now? We'd all like some larger scale Trek kits like the Klingon battlecruisers and better Aliens kits, but would anyone else except HobbyTalk and SSM members buy them? Doesn't seem to have happened for the 1/350 TOS E. Maybe we've lived through the new golden age of SF modelling. I know I've got enough of a backlog of projects and kits waiting to be built/finished to outlast me. I'm just thankful for what a great run the last few years has been.








But it's mainly us older gits who buy these kits like the 1/350th Enterprises anyway and it's been like that for a good few years now.

Aiming these kits at the mass market for kids isn't a good idea now anyway so if the large Trek kits sold ok then I don't see why large Klingon battlecruisers wouldn't sell either.


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## hal9001 (May 28, 2008)

Fozzie said:


> The Galileo has NOT been canceled.


*My apologies, I obviously misread something, or didn't read it correctly.*

Jumping to conclusions...no...just misread or misunderstood.

I would take it as a kindness if everyone would _pretend_ I didn't say that....

Carl-


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## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

starseeker said:


> We'd all like some larger scale Trek kits like the Klingon battlecruisers and better Aliens kits, but would anyone else except HobbyTalk and SSM members buy them?


There continues to be a pretty active market for Trek kits. No one is going to get rich producing plastic model kits in 2014, but with the right business plan you can still make a modest profit catering to the sci-fi crowd. 

The trick is diversifying your product line: Moebius, for example, is able to proceed with a Proteus kit because of all those muscle cars and Mack Truck kits they sell. The Proteus will be lucky to break even, but Moebius remains committed to sci-fi because the owners have a passion for it.

The Trek thing frustrates me because unlike, say, "Fantastic Voyage," the Trek license is a potential Big Money Maker (relatively speaking) and R-2 _still_ can't find enough dough in the budget to tool up for a Galileo or D-7. All that nervous hand-wringing from R-2 over the commercial viability of a 1/350 TOS E kit... puh-leez. 

Trek modelers ought to mount a letter-writing campaign to CBS (heaven knows Trek fans have moved mountains by writing letters). Maybe with a little motivation CBS might be compelled to urge R-2 to do what they're supposedly in business to do, i.e. make model kits. That or get off the pot and give another company a crack at it.



Fozzie said:


> The Galileo has NOT been canceled.


Maybe not, but it has been delayed indefinitely.


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## Fozzie (May 25, 2009)

Carson Dyle said:


> Maybe not, but it has been delayed indefinitely.


Is this new news? At Wonderfest Jamie said it was moving ahead with a release date of roughly a year away. It HAD been delayed for a while due to one of the key developers being unavailable due to personal issues, but was supposedly moving again.


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## scotpens (Sep 6, 2003)

starseeker said:


> . . . There's the Proteus, which has sort of been announced by Moebius, and maybe someday injection 2001 kits, but really, are there any other grail kits left that haven't been produced now?


Injection-molded styrene Disney _Nautilus_?

(Shhyeah, and monkeys might fly outta my butt.)


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

scotpens said:


> Injection-molded styrene Disney _Nautilus_?
> 
> (Shhyeah, and monkeys might fly outta my butt.)








Plus Space 1999 Eagles and no doubt quite a few others.


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## rja (Sep 4, 2010)

> "And Cultman's forum, which was pretty hard-core modellers, had dwindled to a shadow of itself in the last few years."


I would not use that event to make any predictions about the hobby. There are at least two reasons for it:

1. Steve would arbitrarily delete posts he didn't like. I stopped posting there years ago after having two well considered, non offensive, posts that took me some time to write, deleted without comment. Apparently I'd stepped on one of the unwritten rules mines. I know this happened to others. I don't mind the censorship (it's his forum) but since the rules aren't published there's little point in spending time writing a post, looking up photos, etc., if it's going to be deleted within the hour.

2. All forums have suffered in population since Facebook has come out. The problem is that Facebook isn't a forum. There's no useful way to search back more than a few days (which has to be done nearly manually), and new posts bump old posts down into oblivion. I think people are finally starting to realize this as I see slightly more traffic at places like The Clubhouse, but it's going to take a while, if ever.

Robert


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## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

The owner of a well-known kit manufacturer gave me an interesting statistic: he said that if every person who posts regularly, or even semi-regularly, on Hobbytalk, CulTVman, and SSM were to suddenly stop buying kits from his company it wouldn't have an appreciable impact on sales. 

But that's not the interesting statistic. The interesting statistic is that if you took all those people and DOUBLED their number it _still_ wouldn't have an appreciable impact on sales.

We Hobbytalkers are the target audience for sci-fi kits (especially retro sci-fi kits), but we represent only a small portion of the overall marketplace.



scotpens said:


> Injection-molded styrene Disney _Nautilus_?


The Nautilus is tough. It's not like Moebius hasn't aggressively pursued a deal with Disney. Problem is, the amount of money Disney would stand to make from a Nautilus model kit is so (relatively) small that it's not worth their effort. They don't even want to discuss it.

"2001" is another story. The trick there is finding out who, exactly, controls the rights. I half jokingly told Frank he should release a limited re-issue of the Orion, only this time with the "2001" logo incorporated into the box art, just to see who, if anyone, would issue a C & D.


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## ClubTepes (Jul 31, 2002)

^^^^

Agreed.
Some people give too much credit to the influence that HT and a couple of other sites has.

Migrations from one modeling site to another are not uncommon.

Before HT, I frequented an AOL hobby room.
(I wonder how that attendance it going now..... Is AOL even still around??).
See what I mean.

I also don't doubt people leaving a site if they think that a moderator is unfair or has an agenda.

So I don't think that we are completely past this 'New Golden Age', if we are, then all it means is that there will be a slight dip until another 'New Golden Age'.
Thats why they call THIS one 'New' is because there was a dip prior to now from the previous 'Golden Age'.

I guess I'm bummed as everyone else that the queen is canceled, but companies have to look at sales trends. And if the numbers don't support the cost of producing the kit, it doesn't make sense to spend the money.

I don't understand the idea of 'License Squatting' as some of them can be so expensive. That doesn't make any sense to me at all. A company needs to invest in its license in order to get its money back out of it.


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## Sparky (Feb 21, 2004)

ClubTepes said:


> ^^^^
> 
> I guess I'm bummed as everyone else that the queen is canceled, but companies have to look at sales trends. And if the numbers don't support the cost of producing the kit, it doesn't make sense to spend the money.
> 
> I don't understand the idea of 'License Squatting' as some of them can be so expensive. That doesn't make any sense to me at all. A company needs to invest in its license in order to get its money back out of it.


I should think the Trek license is fairly expensive. The low hanging fruit (AMT/PL repops) has been picked. I am sure there are others like myself who are not all that interested in the small scale kits (cadet series).

It seems like R2 is pretty much at the point of go big or go home.

Unless the cadet series kits are a lot bigger money makers than I imagine, aren't issuing new larger kits a must to maintain sales and justify the license?


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

Carson Dyle said:


> The owner of a well-known kit manufacturer gave me an interesting statistic: he said that if every person who posts regularly, or even semi-regularly, on Hobbytalk, CulTVman, and SSM were to suddenly stop buying kits from his company it wouldn't have an appreciable impact on sales.
> 
> But that's not the interesting statistic. The interesting statistic is that if you took all those people and DOUBLED their number it _still_ wouldn't have an appreciable impact on sales.
> 
> ...






Maybe it'll be small fry for a big (greedy) corporation like Disney but the Nautilus has over 12,500 votes on Revells site............


http://ideas.revell.de/ideas/item/513/


plus 2001 and Space 1999 have a very high number of votes.


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## cireskul (Jul 16, 2006)

A bit of advice, dont anounce it unless you are certain it will happen. WTF.


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## MightyMax (Jan 21, 2000)

And once again I learn NOT to sell a kit of the same subject until the new kit actually is available! I was going to list my Halcyon Queen on Ebay and now am really glad I have not!

Max Bryant


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## Jafo (Apr 22, 2005)

Jamies at round 2 said at WonderFest this year, the figures kits are being cancelled because of the extremely poor sales of Wolverine and Superman kits.


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## Rondo (Jul 23, 2010)

The trick is knowing WHICH figure kits to produce. Did GM stop building automobiles after the Pontiac Aztek (or insert questionable design of your choice)? Did they stop making 5 door crossovers? Of course not. They noted a misstep and moved on in the direction the market dictated.

However, Jamie's comment might be taken to imply that the financial failure of Wolverine and Superman had simply left R2 in a position where ANY new tools would be difficult for the moment. That's a shame because the Wicked Witch, Kane, and to a lesser degree Alien Queen and Kong are unique and interesting, not to mention very nice executions from what I've seen. Seems like throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

R2 is still pumping out cool old tools which we can be thankful for. Hopefully this will eventually fund the great new kits we are tantalized with.


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## eimb1999 (Sep 8, 2007)

Uhhh... they just released a brand new 1/1000th Reliant kit. Some new Trek kits are coming too.


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## crowe-t (Jul 30, 2010)

Round 2 has been bringing back quite a few of the older kits which is great for us builders! :thumbsup: They are even making some corrections, to the tooling, and including more accurate decals with them. It's nice not having to go to E-Bay and pay a small fortune for an original release, of say an old AMT Star Trek kit, and still have to buy decals since the original decals are either yellowed or terribly inaccurate. 

For instance, Revell has been re-issuing their Space Shuttle kits for many years now and hasn't changed a thing or made any part(s) more accurate the way Round 2 has been doing. Yeah, some new decals, which aren't always accurate. There are quite a few Real Space modelers out there who would love to see a newer, more up to date, kit of the Space Shuttle. Most of the Space Shuttle kit's available were originally produced before the Shuttle's ever flew so they do need some updating. 

It's hit or miss with Revell's Star Trek kits. The JJ Prise is more then accurate enough but the 19" 1/600 TOS Enterprise, IMO, is crap (mis-shaped areas, canyon deep grid lines all over the ship, B/C deck is incorrectly shaped...) However, Revell does produce some really nice kits and will likely continue to do for some time. 

Round 2 did do what no other model kit company would, and produced the Polar Lights 1/350 TOS Enterprise. :woohoo: There are model builders and Trek collectors who have been waiting for an accurate TOS Enterprise kit since the 1960's and now we have one. They even offer weathering decals and a complete lighting kit for the 1/350 TOS E. Round 2 also produced the new 1/1000 Reliant, 1/1000 Refit Enterprise, not to mention the amazingly accurate 1/25 scale 1966 Batmobile kit and the Forbidden Planet 1/144 C-57D, just to name a few. 

This isn't the glory days of model building and unfortunately today kids, for the most part, aren't building models anymore. When I was a kid most of my friends and I built models. Granted, they were at times glue bombs with bad, or no, paint jobs but we built them. :lol:

Myself, like a lot of builders have more kits then I need so I have no problem waiting for a new release from Round 2 or any other model kit company. Most of the important kits, of various subjects, have been produced already over the years so at this point a new tooled kit is a bonus.


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## alancarter (Jun 2, 2013)

*To the Whiners*

I have been kits for many years its a hobby and like many of you I have a short list of what I'd like so see go into production.

I am a huge fan of what Round2 has done to date. Am I disappointed that some kits cannot be done (1/350th Reliant) you bet however do you here me crying about it no!

Round2 has a responsibility to all of its kit buyer not just the sci-fi crowd. If the Alien Queen has been cancelled that's too bad but come on get over yourself. It is a business decision. Would you be willing to pay hundreds of dollars for the kit? I don't think so. The cost of kit production has risen in China and thus the profitability goes down for some kits, thus they get cancelled. I strongly suggest you educate yourselves on how business works before jumping down anyone throat over a decision.

Some of believe that the kits should be as cheep as possible, accurate, and plentiful. All of that costs money and unless you all agree to spend a lot more money per kit then the cancelations of kit is what can happen. 

Someone on the thread suggested that the solution is to say nothing until the kit is available, well how does a company get any idea of interest unless they say something before production.

Jamie and the Team at Round2 are doing a great job as far as I'm concerned, don't listen to a small group of Whiners!

Keep up the great work.


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## Sparky (Feb 21, 2004)

alancarter said:


> Round2 has a responsibility to all of its kit buyer not just the sci-fi crowd. If the Alien Queen has been cancelled that's too bad but come on get over yourself. It is a business decision. Would you be willing to pay hundreds of dollars for the kit? I don't think so. The cost of kit production has risen in China and thus the profitability goes down for some kits, thus they get cancelled. I strongly suggest you educate yourselves on how business works before jumping down anyone throat over a decision.
> Jamie and the Team at Round2 are doing a great job as far as I'm concerned, don't listen to a small group of Whiners!
> 
> Keep up the great work.


I'm sure no one is more disappointed than Jamie and team regarding the cancellations. A lot of effort on some of these potential kits just to reach a dead end.


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## robiwon (Oct 20, 2006)

Well lets see, the internet has not been around forever so model companies had to do some form of research before then. Right?

I personally have no qualm with a company doing public research on weather a new kit will sell and if there is a market for it. But when they do it in the manner of saying "Hey, look what we have coming out next year, look, here's pictures, here's mock ups, here's box art" and then turn around say " Oh, yeah we cancelled them all, sorry". Yeah, that's just great marketing. That wins over a lot of new customers. 

Don't listen to a bunch of whiners?!? Well if they want my money to help support their business, they aught to listen. The "whiners" are the ones who will be taking their cold hard cash and giving it to someone else.

Would I be willing to pay hundreds of dollars for a kit? Um, well, yeah. I dropped $500 for a resin kit a few months ago. What does that have to do with anything?

_The following was edited for not wanting to stoop so low!_


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

I do not consider it to be 'whining' when you get disappointed with a company which promises a kit you want with great fanfare then drops it- repeatedly. 

I like Round 2- they are upgrading repops with new accuracy and releasing kits I have longed for. I am also wary of their promises- I really wanted that 1/1000 Akira they promised and after it was cancelled I admit I was somewhat bitter. I then saw the back and forth with the NuEnterprise kit which eventually got cancelled after much work had been done. Since then they have gotten better, the 1/350 TOS and smaller scale releases gave me hope.
Now they decided they no longer want to do figure kits after announcing some which people want badly and after they have shown they know how to do it well with the last releases. I am not a figure builder, this does not affect me personally, but now I am getting that sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach once again. A lot of work has been done on the Galileo Shuttlecraft, it is something I am looking forward to and no matter what is said I am beginning to have doubts. Forget the talk about a 1/350 D-7 or Reliant, let's just hope they finish what they started before getting another wish list together.


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## JeffG (May 10, 2004)

So much for a new Sulaco. And a Nostromo? Phhfff. Yeah...right. Label me a whiner. A whiner willing to spend money.


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## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

Sparky said:


> I'm sure no one is more disappointed than Jamie and team regarding the cancellations. A lot of effort on some of these potential kits just to reach a dead end.


Yeah, Jamie is not the problem. I can't imagine how frustrated he must be with the situation at R-2. The company controls the rights to the most coveted property in the sci-fi modeling galaxy and they don't know what to do with them.

The licensing guys at CBS really need to take another look at their deal with R-2. You know what might make that happen? A barrage of emails to CBS from whiners like us. I'm serious. R-2 has had their turn at bat, and their record sucks. It's time to give someone else a shot at Trek.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

JeffG said:


> So much for a new Sulaco. And a Nostromo? Phhfff. Yeah...right. Label me a whiner. A whiner willing to spend money.


Once again, They cancelled the_ FIGURE KITS_, not the spaceship.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

I for one am hoping that they do a bang-up job this Christmas and sell tons of Trek models now that they seem to have gotten past the warped-1/350th TOS E problems. That had to be a tremendous blow, especially considering the same thing happened with the first few batches of the NX-01 350ths. 

I'm begrudgingly starting to think it may be a couple of years before we get a new 350th scale kit.

But if they are smart about it and manage to make money on what they have already I'm hoping we'll eventually see some more 350th's. Hopefully by the end of next year we'll see the Galileo kit. But unlikely before then. 

So I guess all we can do is hope for a good Christmas season for R2.

I suggested to Jamie they try some old-school TV ads during the MeTV Saturday Sci-Fi 6 hour block.

MeTV's sci-fi viewing audience is comprised of older sci-fi fans who are more likely to build kits or buy them for their children/grandchildren to build.

Kits aimed at younger fans probably aren't that good a bet.

Plus they do have 60's Batman, Star Trek TOS, a couple of horror
models, and even a Robbie the Robot model that could probably do
well during the Sci-Fi Saturday block. At least drive sales to the website.

And unlike decades ago when I ordered Trek kits from a local UHF station's TV ad,
R2's customers won't have to "allow 6 to 8 weeks for delivery." 

The answer to R2's problems are three things: sales, sales, and sales.


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## robiwon (Oct 20, 2006)

But see that's where the complaints really are. It's the old "if you want to see something new, buy what they offer now". Well were doing that aren't we? Were buying all the re-pops and the new little Trek kits they make, and yet their still canceling kits that they said they were going to make. I can understand if they cancelled one or two kits, but every figure kit, save for Kane? I'm sure he's on the chopping block as well. Just not been announced yet.

I agree if they aren't going to put kits out under the licenses they have, sell them to someone else, like Moebius or Pegasus.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

Carson Dyle said:


> Yeah, Jamie is not the problem. I can't imagine how frustrated he must be with the situation at R-2. The company controls the rights to the most coveted property in the sci-fi modeling galaxy and they don't know what to do with them.
> 
> The licensing guys at CBS really need to take another look at their deal with R-2. You know what might make that happen? A barrage of emails to CBS from whiners like us. I'm serious. R-2 has had their turn at bat, and their record sucks. It's time to give someone else a shot at Trek.


R2/Polar Lights has done a ton of good work in the Trek modeling area.

How many years/decades did AMT/Ertl go without releasing anything new in the way of Trek? 
During the entire 70's I think AMT only came up with three, maybe four, new Trek releases.
Everyone of which were terribly inaccurate.

I'm bummed that they aren't going full bore ahead with a ton of new kits. But if they can't for awhile I can live with it.

I look at what Revell did to their 1/600th TOS E, and I definitely don't want them getting the domestic Trek license.

Things could be better - I agree with you entirely on that, Carson.

But they could be far worse as well.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

robiwon said:


> But see that's where the complaints really are. It's the old "if you want to see something new, buy what they offer now". Well were doing that aren't we? Were buying all the re-pops and the new little Trek kits they make, and yet their still canceling kits that they said they were going to make. I can understand if they cancelled one or two kits, but every figure kit, save for Kane? I'm sure he's on the chopping block as well. Just not been announced yet.
> 
> I agree if they aren't going to put kits out under the licenses they have, sell them to someone else, like Moebius or Pegasus.


Personally I don't see a solution that everyone would like.

I feel for everyone who wanted these models, I've been in the same boat myself
when Polar Lights folded before producing the 1/350th TOS E.

In the past AMT had split the production cost for molding with a foreign licensor - Aurora. 

Perhaps the answer lies in that sort of arrangement. 

Though I'd still like to see the kits developed and designed by R2.


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

Despite all it's flaws, R2 is still better with the SciFi property than the earlier Racing Champions. They kept buying companies like Polar Lights just to get the autos and just shelved everything else...


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

The more I think about it, the more it seems that joint molding of kits by R2 and someone like Revell Germany could make sense.

Heck, R2's molding is done in China and shipped to the US.

Revell Germany's, however, is done in Europe.

I don't know if they would be willing or able to consider having
a Chinese produced product.

Perhaps they could make their European production facilities available
to R2 and still come out cheaper? Anyone know where they make their kits?

God knows the language barrier couldn't be worse then the American/Chinese barrier.

Unless their kits are made in Britain. The British speak American funny.


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## JeffG (May 10, 2004)

John P said:


> Once again, They cancelled the_ FIGURE KITS_, not the spaceship.


I know John. I'm just hoping it at least stops there.


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## GSaum (May 26, 2005)

Carson Dyle said:


> R-2 has had their turn at bat, and their record sucks. It's time to give someone else a shot at Trek.


I, for one, am very proud to say that I couldn't disagree with this statement more. R2 has produced some of the best scifi kits ever. Regardless of what people think of scale or size, the 350 TOS Enterprise kit is arguably the best engineered scifi kit on the market. They have also released many Trek kits, most of them with newly engineered pieces (like the Enterprise B) 

I think to say that R2's record sucks is ignorant at best and arrogant at worst.


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## robiwon (Oct 20, 2006)

On a brighter note, Pegasus announces another vinyl dinosaur kit, the Spinosaurus in 1/24 scale! It may not be a licensed JP3 kit, but I bet we see it on store shelves!!!!


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## Rondo (Jul 23, 2010)

GSaum said:


> ....I think to say that R2's record sucks is ignorant at best and arrogant at worst.


Well, it certainly shows that it is always easy to want more and better. Trek kits are clearly a major priority to R2. 

For comparison, survey the veritable modeling wasteland for "_Killer Klowns_" modelers. No Big Top Mothership. No "Joe Joe". Not even a Dodge Diplomat patrol car...


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## crowe-t (Jul 30, 2010)

Up until about 2 years ago there was never an accurate TOS Enterprise kit produced. Yeah, I know Polar Lights produced the 1/1000 TOS E which is a great kit, however it is only 11 inches long and doesn't allow for a lot of extreme detailing. 

A full size TOS Enterprise kit is probably one of, if not the, most dreamed of kit for years now. Round 2 produced an extremely accurate TOS Enterprise that requires little to no modification to make it look like it did on TV. A number of people would have been happy with an 18"-22" accurate TOS E but they produced it in 1/350 which is even better. There are other kits we would love to see produced but I'm sure there are a lot of us who have waited most of our lives for this kit.

No one wants to hear that kits are being cancelled but these days we are lucky to have any model kit companies around anymore. Young people just aren't building models anymore. I remember years ago when model kits were sold everywhere, now I never see kit's on shelves. 

I think Round 2 is doing a fantastic job considering what they are up against. This hobby isn't as big as it used to be. I'm sure they don't want to cancel any kits but they are running a business.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

crowe-t said:


> Up until about 2 years ago there was never an accurate TOS Enterprise kit produced. Yeah, I know Polar Lights produced the 1/1000 TOS E which is a great kit, however it is only 11 inches long and doesn't allow for a lot of extreme detailing.
> 
> A full size TOS Enterprise kit is probably one of, if not the, most dreamed of kit for years now. Round 2 produced an extremely accurate TOS Enterprise that requires little to no modification to make it look like it did on TV. A number of people would have been happy with an 18"-22" accurate TOS E but they produced it in 1/350 which is even better. There are other kits we would love to see produced but I'm sure there are a lot of us who have waited most of our lives for this kit.
> 
> ...


 Sad but true. I can remember buying AMT TOS E's and Klingon Battlecruisers from a local drugstore, as well as Sears and other local department stores when I was a kid. Those days are past us now.


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## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

GSaum said:


> I think to say that R2's record sucks is ignorant at best and arrogant at worst.


I'm sorry you disagree with my opinion, but I assure you it's an informed one.

The problem is very simple. R2 currently controls the rights to produce Star Trek models, but their anemic annual tooling budget makes it all but impossible for them to produce new kits. In other words, they've tied up the rights to a coveted property, but are unable to exploit those rights. 

I really do feel for Jamie. None of this is his fault, and it has to be very frustrating to know you're sitting on an amazingly accurate set of Galileo plans (for example) but your budget isn't sufficient to cover the production of anything other than a slightly retooled re-pop of the old AMT kit.

Those of you with unbuilt Randy Cooper Galileo kits? You may want to hang onto them.



crowe-t said:


> I'm sure they don't want to cancel any kits but they are running a business.


Yeah, they're running it into the ground. As Moebius has proven, with a proper business plan there is a way to produce a steady stream of retro and contemporary science-fiction kits and still turn a modest profit. No one is getting rich, but it can be done. It _is_ being done. Just not at R2.


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## robiwon (Oct 20, 2006)

I know Moebius is a small company. They do have a good game plan with securing the BSG license and others. However, the more impressive company to me is Pegasus. Look what they have done with sci-fi offerings in the last few years! Simply amazing stuff. Plus they have figures, well more creatures and dinosaurs, to boot. They have produced kits that no one would have thought would ever see the light of day. R2 needs to take a look at how that company is run on their (I bet much smaller) budget.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

robiwon said:


> I know Moebius is a small company. They do have a good game plan with securing the BSG license and others. However, the more impressive company to me is Pegasus. Look what they have done with sci-fi offerings in the last few years! Simply amazing stuff. Plus they have figures, well more creatures and dinosaurs, to boot. They have produced kits that no one would have thought would ever see the light of day. R2 needs to take a look at how that company is run on their (I bet much smaller) budget.


 Have a link to their website? I typed in Pegasus modeling company and got some hits to stuff that were WAAAAAAAAAAAY unrelated. :freak:


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## Opus Penguin (Apr 19, 2004)

Chuck_P.R. said:


> Have a link to their website? I typed in Pegasus modeling company and got some hits to stuff that were WAAAAAAAAAAAY unrelated. :freak:


http://pegasushobbies.net/catalog/index.html


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## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

robiwon said:


> I know Moebius is a small company. They do have a good game plan with securing the BSG license and others. However, the more impressive company to me is Pegasus.


For my money, Moebius is far and away the most "impressive" sci-fi kit manufacturer in history. The Irwin Allen, Universal Monster, and BSG kits they've made -- and continue to make? Doesn't get any better (thanks in no small measure to Gary Kerr). Can you imagine what Moebius could do with Trek? It's both exciting and depressing to think about.

As for Pegasus, the owner is a friend, and their kits are awesome. Love, love, love me some Pegasus sci-fi kits!


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## robiwon (Oct 20, 2006)

Thanks for the link, but that is for the shop itself. Here is a link to their catalog of kits that they make. It's a bit dated as both Terminator kits are now on the market.

http://pegasushobbies.net/catalog/images/2011catalog.pdf


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

Thanks to Opus Peguin and robiwon for the two links. :thumbsup:


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## PixelMagic (Aug 25, 2004)

Carson Dyle said:


> Can you imagine what Moebius could do with Trek? It's both exciting and depressing to think about.


Man, they would rock it. If only.


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## Zombie_61 (Apr 21, 2004)

Carson Dyle said:


> ...I really do feel for Jamie. None of this is his fault, and it has to be very frustrating to know you're sitting on an amazingly accurate set of Galileo plans (for example) but your budget isn't sufficient to cover the production of anything other than a slightly retooled re-pop of the old AMT kit...


Has Round 2 announced a cancellation or indefinite delay of the proposed Galileo kit, or are you simply using it as an example here to illustrate your point?

Veering back towards the main topic, I can't say I'm disappointed that they've cancelled the Wicked Witch, Alien Queen, and any other figure kits they may have had in the works. Aside from not being interested in the subject matter, I've built two Polar Lights figure kits in the past--Robby the Robot, and the Randy Bowen Wolf Man--and both kits had the same problems: soft and/or missing details, engineering that didn't appear to be too well thought out, and gaps between parts that reminded me of the Aurora figure kits I built in the 70s. Having purchased and examined Polar Lights' Superman kit that was released last year, it appears nothing has changed. Now, I think their figure kits look terrific once they're built, but it takes a lot of extra work to get them to that point.

That said, I'll be the first to say I know very little about what it takes to get a styrene model kit from the initial concept to the ready-to-sell product. But then, I'm not in the business of producing model kits. So I can't help but wonder why companies like Moebius and Monarch can produce detailed and well-engineered styrene figure kits, and Round 2, apparently, can't.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Last I heard the Galileo is still in pipeline.


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

Zombie_61 said:


> Has Round 2 announced a cancellation or indefinite delay of the proposed Galileo kit, or are you simply using it as an example here to illustrate your point?
> 
> Veering back towards the main topic, I can't say I'm disappointed that they've cancelled the Wicked Witch, Alien Queen, and any other figure kits they may have had in the works. Aside from not being interested in the subject matter, I've built two Polar Lights figure kits in the past--Robby the Robot, and the Randy Bowen Wolf Man--and both kits had the same problems: soft and/or missing details, engineering that didn't appear to be too well thought out, and gaps between parts that reminded me of the Aurora figure kits I built in the 70s. Having purchased and examined Polar Lights' Superman kit that was released last year, it appears nothing has changed. Now, I think their figure kits look terrific once they're built, but it takes a lot of extra work to get them to that point.
> 
> That said, I'll be the first to say I know very little about what it takes to get a styrene model kit from the initial concept to the ready-to-sell product. But then, I'm not in the business of producing model kits. So I can't help but wonder why companies like Moebius and Monarch can produce detailed and well-engineered styrene figure kits, and Round 2, apparently, can't.


I have to agree with the Superman observation. It is inexcusable for a company in 2014 to release a figure kit with such soft to nonexistent detail. I built one for a client and spent a lot of time filling seams that should have been tighter and adding back detail that blended in with the body. If my customer had not given me a kit as part of payment, I would never have gone out and purchased the kit for myself after seeing it.

I am glad they decided to get out of the figure business, I was looking forward to the Wicked Witch, but not after the Superman kit. Thankfully, I have the line of "Batman" figures from Moebius to look forward to and having built all of their Universal Monster line, I don't think they will disappoint!


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## GSaum (May 26, 2005)

Carson Dyle said:


> For my money, Moebius is far and away the most "impressive" sci-fi kit manufacturer in history. The Irwin Allen, Universal Monster, and BSG kits they've made -- and continue to make? Doesn't get any better (thanks in no small measure to Gary Kerr). Can you imagine what Moebius could do with Trek? It's both exciting and depressing to think about.
> 
> As for Pegasus, the owner is a friend, and their kits are awesome. Love, love, love me some Pegasus sci-fi kits!


One thing you have to remember, though, is that Star Trek is one of (if not THE) most expensive licenses for merchandise in the industry. Round 2 is spending a great deal of many just to maintain the license, as any company would. If Pegasus or Mobieus had the Trek license, you can bet that they would have just as difficult a time producing Trek kits. Even with all these challenges, R2 has produced (and reproduced) some amazing Trek kits and I couldn't be more grateful to have them around.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

RSN, I think the Wolverine kit was very good, but yeah, the Superman kit was horrible. It was a real shock coming on the heels of Wolvie.


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## Opus Penguin (Apr 19, 2004)

Got this from Jamie at the Round 2 site:

_Though we are shifting away from figures our commitment to spacecraft, especially Star Trek, remains as strong as ever. We are currently evaluating exactly where the Galileo will end up on our schedule. - See more at: http://www.collectormodel.com/round2-models/2165-round-2-models-wonderfest-2014-roundup/#comments_


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

John P said:


> RSN, I think the Wolverine kit was very good, but yeah, the Superman kit was horrible. It was a real shock coming on the heels of Wolvie.


That is good to know, I wasn't wanting to get the Wolverine kit because of Superman. I may give it a shot to add to my heroes shelf.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

Zombie_61 said:


> Has Round 2 announced a cancellation or indefinite delay of the proposed Galileo kit, or are you simply using it as an example here to illustrate your point?
> 
> Veering back towards the main topic, I can't say I'm disappointed that they've cancelled the Wicked Witch, Alien Queen, and any other figure kits they may have had in the works. Aside from not being interested in the subject matter, I've built two Polar Lights figure kits in the past--Robby the Robot, and the Randy Bowen Wolf Man--and both kits had the same problems: soft and/or missing details, engineering that didn't appear to be too well thought out, and gaps between parts that reminded me of the Aurora figure kits I built in the 70s. Having purchased and examined Polar Lights' Superman kit that was released last year, it appears nothing has changed. Now, I think their figure kits look terrific once they're built, but it takes a lot of extra work to get them to that point.
> 
> That said, I'll be the first to say I know very little about what it takes to get a styrene model kit from the initial concept to the ready-to-sell product. But then, I'm not in the business of producing model kits. So I can't help but wonder why companies like Moebius and Monarch can produce detailed and well-engineered styrene figure kits, and Round 2, apparently, can't.


Is it possible they were trying to mimic the look of the old Aurora/AMT Superheroes? I remember during the 70's there were ones of Batman,
Superman and Wonder Woman if I remember correctly.

I never bought a Superman, but I remember Batman and Wonder Woman 
were pretty simple castings.

Though even if they wanted it to look retro, unless it's a repop the engineering probably could have been better.

On the positive side, they did take the time and expense to create a new mold for, and improve, the Spock with Snakes kit. 

I just wish they would do some new marketing or something to drive their sales so they could do more.


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## miniature sun (May 1, 2005)

If Round 2 had wanted to kick start their line of Alien/Aliens kits prior to sinking money into new tooling they could have done a lot worse than reissuing some of the Halcyon kits, the molds for which are in Japan.
OK so the APC and Dropship kits are hardly state of the art by today's standards but they are still highly sought after and command high prices on eBay...they also can be turned into nice replicas with a little effort.
The styrene Alien figure kits, particularly the Alien Warrior and Alien 3 are excellent, as are most of the vinyl kits.
It seems crazy to pay a licensing fee then do absolutely nothing with it......


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

miniature sun said:


> It seems crazy to pay a licensing fee then do absolutely nothing with it......


Not if it keeps it out of the hands of the competition. "If we don't do it, nobody does it" mentality in business. Not saying that is what happened here and not saying if it is right or wrong, just saying it happens.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

RSN said:


> That is good to know, I wasn't wanting to get the Wolverine kit because of Superman. I may give it a shot to add to my heroes shelf.


Here's mine - I modified it to the brown costume 'cause I hate the yellow:
http://www.inpayne.com/models/wolviebrown1.html


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## Zombie_61 (Apr 21, 2004)

Chuck_P.R. said:


> Is it possible they were trying to mimic the look of the old Aurora/AMT Superheroes? I remember during the 70's there were ones of Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman if I remember correctly. I never bought a Superman, but I remember Batman and Wonder Woman
> were pretty simple castings...


I suppose that's possible; after all, the sculpt was based on a comic book cover from 1971. I haven't heard or read anything that would confirm or refute that, but I have some trouble believing they would deliberately decide to produce a kit that had softer details than a kit from 50 years ago.



Chuck_P.R. said:


> ...Though even if they wanted it to look retro, unless it's a repop the engineering probably could have been better...


I haven't built mine yet, so at this point I really can't comment on how well or poorly the kit was engineered.



Chuck_P.R. said:


> ...On the positive side, they did take the time and expense to create a new mold for, and improve, the Spock with Snakes kit...


To be clear, I'm not down on Round 2. In fact, I'm pleased to see them reissue kits that haven't seen the light of day in years, make improvements to some of the older kits that are now in their possession, and create new kits like the 1/350 scale U.S.S. Enterprise and the upcoming Galileo Shuttlecraft. I honestly support them and look forward to seeing what they're going to release next. And, being a model builder, I want to see the company thrive. But I have to wonder how, as John P. wrote above, they can produce a good figure kit like The Wolverine and follow it up with a not-as-good figure kit like Superman.


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

John P said:


> Here's mine - I modified it to the brown costume 'cause I hate the yellow:
> http://www.inpayne.com/models/wolviebrown1.html


Very nice! The muscle definition looks to be molded much better than on the Superman kit!!


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