# The refit at Wolf 359



## John F (May 31, 2001)

The wrecked Connie at Wolf 359, does anybody know, was it ever "officially" given a name. I'm thinking of naming a PL Refit after that ship.

Thanks


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## JGG1701 (Nov 9, 2004)

Funny.............
I don't remember seeing a Constitution Class at Wolf 359.  
Got any pics that verify that?


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## Opus Penguin (Apr 19, 2004)

JGG1701 said:


> Funny.............
> I don't remember seeing a Constitution Class at Wolf 359.
> Got any pics that verify that?



How about this:

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/articles/wolf359/wolf359-5-2a.jpg

Or this:

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/articles/wolf359/wolf359-1-2a.jpg


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## beeblebrox (Jul 30, 2003)

Links don't work, but I do remember seeing the quick shot of a connie secondary hull just before commercial.


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## John F (May 31, 2001)

here ya go

The first pic is an engineering hull, the other 2 are a wrecked primary hull, the destroyed Enterprise from ST3 was used for these shots, or so they say.


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## justinleighty (Jan 13, 2003)

I've never heard any official or unofficial identification of it. Heck, it's shown in such a fleeting fashion, I'd be amazed if anyone bothered to give it a name.


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## Commander Dan (Mar 22, 2001)

JGG1701 said:


> Funny.............
> I don't remember seeing a Constitution Class at Wolf 359.


Me neither. 

An *Enterprise-class* ship, however... 


...


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## John F (May 31, 2001)

I've actually seen it described either way, a refit or redesigned Constitution, or Enterprise class, depends which publication your reading.

If it is an un-named vessel, I'll make up a name and story to go with my model

I'm open to suggestions. 

thanks


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## Commander Dan (Mar 22, 2001)

John F said:


> I've actually seen it described either way, a refit or redesigned Constitution, or Enterprise class, depends which publication your reading.


Yeah, I’m just trying to stir up trouble.  

I personally prefer the Enterprise-class nomenclature, but I have begrudging accepted the Constitution-class refit designation as well.

Not meaning to get off-topic, but I do find it ironic that the very use of the term "Constitution-class _refit_" is an acknowledgement that the design does indeed need to be differentiated from the original Constitution-class. Yet, many (most?) fans seem to argue against the Enterprise-class designation.


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## Jim NCC1701A (Nov 6, 2000)

Is that the McQuarrie _Enterprise_ in the middle of the 2nd and 3rd screencaps, and an _Excelsior_ proto in the top right of the 3rd cap?


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## spe130 (Apr 13, 2004)

Somewhere online is a good breakdown of the ships seen at Wolf 359...but I don't remember the link.


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## geino (May 9, 2006)

I have numerous good screen captures from the DS9 battle with the Borg at Wolf 359. The shot the concerns me is the suicidal crew in the Oberth class that went up against the Borg.

I know that the following class of ships were at the battle of Wolf 359 - Excellsior, Nebula, Miranda, Oberth, Chyane (?)


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## terryr (Feb 11, 2001)

Jim NCC1701A said:


> Is that the McQuarrie _Enterprise_ in the middle of the 2nd and 3rd screencaps, and an _Excelsior_ proto in the top right of the 3rd cap?


To me it looks like a modified Galaxy, and an Excelsior with the engine struts put on upside down.


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## John F (May 31, 2001)

The pics I posted are from theTNG ep "Best Of Both Worlds". I wasn't a big fan of DS9 so I'm not familiar with any references to Wolf 359 that they may have made


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## Borz666 (May 17, 2004)

terryr said:


> To me it looks like a modified Galaxy, and an Excelsior with the engine struts put on upside down.


yep! sounds and looks just like the McQuarrie E and the proto Excelsior!


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## John F (May 31, 2001)

I hope nobody minds me dragging up an old thread, but I decided on a name for my model. I'm going to call it the U.S.S. Indianapolis named after the naval vessel that was destroyed on July 30 1945.

Check out the decal sheet I designed.



http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s306/jmf1964/USSINDIANAPOLISDECAL.jpg


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## Griffworks (Jun 24, 2002)

They look great! Two sets just in case you have problems putting the first on, I guess? 

As to bring up an old thread, I don't have a problem with it. If you're referring to my being perturbed a couple days back about old threads being brought back, it was because four threads about the exact same subject were brought back to the surface.


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## John F (May 31, 2001)

Thanks.

John


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## Ruckdog (Jan 17, 2006)

spe130 said:


> Somewhere online is a good breakdown of the ships seen at Wolf 359...but I don't remember the link.


Are you thinking of this one over on Ex Astris Scientia?

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/articles/wolf359.htm


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## spe130 (Apr 13, 2004)

Ruckdog said:


> Are you thinking of this one over on Ex Astris Scientia?
> 
> http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/articles/wolf359.htm


Yep. Good screencap of the _Connie _hull over there.


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## Squall67584 (Feb 20, 2006)

I like your choice of name, you can't go wrong with a historical ship! Mine, if I ever get it finished, is the USS Hornet NCC-1942. I really like how you've given it a high number registry, makes it seem like Starfleet kept producing the ol' workhorse. :thumbsup:


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## John F (May 31, 2001)

thanks, the registry number is actually the date the ship was lost -July 30th 1945, or 73045

Also kicking around ideas for "U.S.S. Abraham Lincoln" and "U.S.S. John F. Kennedy". Those numbers will be birthdays.


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## Squall67584 (Feb 20, 2006)

Ah, now that's a cool way of choosing the number. I chose the number for mine since it was the year of the Doolittle raid, and the year it was lost at Santa Cruz.


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## CaptainHawk1 (Feb 23, 2007)

Commander Dan said:


> Me neither.
> 
> An *Enterprise-class* ship, however...
> 
> ...


  No such thing as an Enterprise Class... never was. It's a Constitution (refit). Quoting non-canon sources doesn't make it so.

-Shawn


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## spe130 (Apr 13, 2004)

CaptainHawk1 said:


> No such thing as an Enterprise Class... never was. It's a Constitution (refit). Quoting non-canon sources doesn't make it so.
> 
> -Shawn


You can quote the plaque over the bridge simulator entrance at the start of TWOK, though... :tongue:


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## Griffworks (Jun 24, 2002)

Good point, Sam. 'Course an argument could be made about the "Enterprise Class" placard referring to the bridge simulator having that name but not being named after the class-ship itself. 

I still prefer giving the TMP _Enterprise_ the title of lead ship of her class - thus earning the title of _Enterprise_-class. She's got enough brand-new components and is visually different enough to have had any ships meeting her specifications to be given that class name. We've got plenty of examples of US Navy ships w/fewer visual differences that have had all ships following to be named in that class-line of ships, after all. Why not the Refit _Enterprise_? 

So, in my lil' corner of the Trek 'Verse she is indeed lead ship for the _Enterprise_-class.  




CaptainHawk1 said:


> No such thing as an Enterprise Class... never was. It's a Constitution (refit). Quoting non-canon sources doesn't make it so.


For starters, he was making a joke. May have been somewhat "geeky" in nature, but it was done tongue-in-cheek. 

Second of all, lose the rolling of the eyes smiley 'cause it shows a pissy, know-it-all attitude and isn't at all conducive to discussion. Quite the opposite, in fact. 

Thanks in advance.


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## Daikaiju1 (Apr 26, 2005)

Was it in STVI with Chief Engineer Scott in the dining room poring over plans of the ship marked Enterprise Class? Sorry don't have it on disc but seem to remember it.
Would that make it canon?
Cheers


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## d_jedi1 (Jan 20, 2007)

It was Star Trek VI... I'm putting that scene on now just to see what it actually does say  I'm not sure myself at this point...
It says Constitution Class Starship.. I'll take a pic really quick.
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o176/d_jedi1/Clipboard01.jpg
Im gonna check out ST:II since I'm at it 
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o176/d_jedi1/Clipboard02.jpg
LOL it does indeed say Enterprise class.. eh, who knew?


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## Daikaiju1 (Apr 26, 2005)

Jedi

Thanks for the clarification, shows how my memory (whats left) can play tricks! I have II on disc. Soon as I sign out I'll go watch it. (Braces for the acting!!)

'sniff' Most human...


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## Griffworks (Jun 24, 2002)

I think they did that in ST:VI just to cheese me off!  





OK, not really.  It was nice to get a once-and-for-all canon finding on the issue, even tho it was a bit of a personal disappointment for me. Still, it's officially settled. Kinda hard to argue with the facts. 


It's still _Enterprise_-class in my lil' corner of the Trek 'Verse, tho.


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## Ohio_Southpaw (Apr 26, 2005)

Griff, I'm in agreement with you.


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## Marco Scheloske (May 16, 2000)

d_jedi1 said:


> http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o176/d_jedi1/Clipboard02.jpg
> LOL it does indeed say Enterprise class.. eh, who knew?


Maybe it should simply mean that this is the simulator for the cadets of the schoolship Enterprise = the class from the Enterprise = Enterprise class.

Does this makes sense?


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## spe130 (Apr 13, 2004)

Griffworks said:


> I think they did that in ST:VI just to cheese me off!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Griff, there are a few WWII examples of ships having unsettled/dual class names. Case in point, the long-hull _Essex_-class carriers, which seem to have been officially designated as _Ticonderoga_-class - though even then, they were referred to as long-hull _Essex_s.

My thoughts always had been that the refitted Connies were indeed _Constitution_-class, refitted, with new-construction ships being designated as _Enterprise_-class. Even after the post-WWII reconstruction, the _Essex_-class ships were still _Essex_-class.


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## CaptainHawk1 (Feb 23, 2007)

Griffworks said:


> For starters, he was making a joke. May have been somewhat "geeky" in nature, but it was done tongue-in-cheek.
> 
> Second of all, lose the rolling of the eyes smiley 'cause it shows a pissy, know-it-all attitude and isn't at all conducive to discussion. Quite the opposite, in fact.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


Well, I apologize, because that wasn't the intent. The intent was to express an "oh-boy-here-we-go-again-with-the-refit-class-debate" attitude and that was it. Normally I would use a "d'oh!" smiley, but this board ain't got one. 

As for the non-canon sources, usually when people call it an Enterprise Class they are usually referring to something they read in a FASA book or other non-canon source.

Honestly, I didn't even know about the plaque on the simulator.

But anywhoooo... the issue has been resolved thanks to Jedi. :tongue: 

-Shawn :dude:


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## d_jedi1 (Jan 20, 2007)

I didnt know about the simulator plaque either until someone on here mentioned it. I like how it was pointed out about WWII ships being of undetermined class... works for everyone


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