# Another question from 31 Racine Rd



## 31 Racine Rd (Aug 9, 2001)

Hello everyone

Congradulations to OAB for correctly identifying the origins of "31 Racine Rd". This was never supposed to be a secret, just an interesting point of history.

Question:

In this landscape of dissappearing Mom & Pop hobby stores, and decaying hobby shelves at the large retail stores, how do you feel about a web exclusive? 

That is to say, how would you feel about the opportunity to purchase faithful repop kits (of much sought after originals) from the company website store, particularly if the repop kits were otherwise suggested to be poor sellers. This approach may improve the "bottom line" for the manufacturer, and in doing so, help to lower the retail price for you.

Thank you everyone

Remember to stay positive and patient until 2009, .......then prepare to get frenzied. 

"31"


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## Ignatz (Jun 20, 2000)

The local hobby shops I know get by selling R/C, Pokemon cards, and 1:6 soldier dolls. The few good ones still keep a lot of current stock of kits--one in particular--Sparetime Shoppe in Marlboro, MA, keeps a HUGE inventory off all kinds of kits, most can't spare the shelf space. It's been like this for years. Needless to say, a good 80% of my purchases are already made online, either through Megahobby, or Squadron, or any number of garage kit makers. I can appreciate the need to keep costs down. I don't even care that much about box art. Heck, you could even make box art and instruction sheets available as a downloadable .pdf 
I'm mostly interested in the plastic.


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## MonsterModelMan (Dec 20, 2000)

31 Racine Rd said:


> ... how would you feel about the opportunity to purchase faithful repop kits (of much sought after originals) from the company website store, particularly if the repop kits were otherwise suggested to be poor sellers. This approach may improve the "bottom line" for the manufacturer, and in doing so, help to lower the retail price for you.
> 
> "31"


As long as the shipping cost were reasonable....great idea! I order quite a bit from online resources...MiM, MegaHobby, etc...

MMM


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## 1bluegtx (Aug 13, 2004)

Well since there are no hobbyshops anywhere around me, online is my only choice!

BRIAN


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## otto (Jan 1, 1970)

I'll buy online. I wish you the best of luck with this endeavor...Otto


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## origAurora buyer (Jan 12, 1999)

Did I win something? 

Try this one...."Monarch Models".

OAB


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## Ratmaster2000 (Jul 20, 2005)

I would go the on-line way, if there were nice shots of the kit and packaging to help me decide to buy it. I'd also look beyond just the strictly hobby only stores and maybe target Anime/Comic book stores, as many of those (depending on the subject matter) carry many figure kits from japan, and would probably carry kits if the subject was right. 2009?  Ah well, I have a lot of kits to keep me busy.


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## Cro-Magnon Man (Jun 11, 2001)

Online would be my only way of obtaining the kits, so yes!


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## Zorro (Jun 22, 1999)

I've got no problem with on-line but I'm wondering how you would distinguish yourself from a company like Retro-Resin. If you say price points - then _how?_


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## AFILMDUDE (Nov 27, 2000)

I have no problem buying kits on-line. But I do prefer original style box art if possible. On the other hand if the box art makes it tough to make a profit - then I'll gladly take the plastic parts and pdf file over nothing.

Zorro - I think one distinguishing factor would be styrene over resin. I thought I heard somewhere that was the plan. But I could be wrong...


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## Zorro (Jun 22, 1999)

AFILMDUDE said:


> Zorro - I think one distinguishing factor would be styrene over resin. I thought I heard somewhere that was the plan. But I could be wrong...


Right. But that's sort of my point. Can you produce styrene kits of pretty much the exact same subjects as Retro Resin at considerably less cost while selling exclusively/primarily on-line and still make enough profit to sustain the business?


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## CaptFrank (Jan 29, 2005)

*To answer the original question...*

Most of the models I have bought in the last seven years 
have been from an online dealer.

An online exclusive would be just fine.


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## Prince of Styrene II (Feb 28, 2000)

An interesting question. I think if you're going to be selling items online, the biggest help would be not just good pics, but* fracking great* pics!! One thing that's great about my LHS is that I can go in & hold it in my hand, shake the box & look at the pictures of the build up on the side. Often I woln't purchase a kit if I don't find a build up picture on the box. If you do these sales online, I'd heavily suggest having thumbnails that click out to full screen pics, both of parts & a build up, with very good detail!

That being said, I don't really have a problem with buying kits online, though I havn't done it often. I do what I can to support my LHS, but the truth of the matter is that I have a limited income, especially with a couple rugrats. I need to save where I can. If buying online (including the shipping) can save me money, I'll do it.

And as for box art, hey, I have more than my share of Starcrafts kits & they only have a pic on the top of the box. Make the directions a downloadable PDF that anyone can get/view. You may get some sales if people can see what's involved in constructing it. One of the most drool-y things I did recently was gape at the FM MF directions that were posted online by FM.


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## the Dabbler (Feb 17, 2005)

Due to a lack of local hobby stores I buy most everything on-line now anyhow, including supplies. Also a posting on eBait with "Buy Now" prices might reach those who don't belong to boards like this ?? Plus with the costs of gas & travel probably NOT going to get better, on-line may be the best way to go. Personally, I seldom leave the house to shop anymore. But as has been said, just good pictures and descriptions so we can get a good sense of the kit.
Dabbler


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## dr.robert (Feb 16, 2006)

My only local hobby store closed up last year and believe me, I MISS THEM! So...It looks like on line is the way to go for me :thumbsup:


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## Frankie Boy (Feb 28, 2002)

Personally, I'm not interested in the box at all. Once the model is built, the box is trashed. Oops! I mean, recycled. In fact, I'd be quite happy purchasing bagged only models, such as a Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde repop, for example. But in that case, I would know what I'd be getting because of my familiarity with the item. In the case of a new model, however, that's where the idea of having lots of build-ups and what-have-you posted as thumbnails (as mentioned by P of S II) would not only be nice, but, I would think, essential. Shipping the item then could be in a plain, unmarked, cardboard box. Building instructions could be downloaded as also suggested by the Prince.

On another topic I didn't chime in on before: I would love to see all the knight models repopped.


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## razorwyre1 (Jan 28, 2004)

as to the box, its completly irrelevant to me. knowing what i do of printing costs, etc., id gladly sacrifice the pretty box for a little bit of savings. 

that being said, i dont think the question is whether or not we here would buy web exclusive kits (i mean, youre preachin' to the choir here on the forum when you talk about both web shopping and figure kits), but rather or not your company can thrive without sales via more traditional brick and mortar distributors/ retailers. 

if you do aim it at the brick and mortars as well as the web, then the prety box is a neccessity.


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## ChrisW (Jan 1, 1970)

You guys are killin' me here!!!

Kits on shelves need something to attract the eye, and there have been many threads talking about how an evocative painting enhances the kit.
Does an online supplier need boxart? If you are a low number garage kit company, no. But there is a professionalism and perceived value to an attractive package that can't be overlooked. Look at what Retro Resin is doing - the whole package from boxart to instructions and spare parts screams quality. Ditto Steve Iverson's offerings. I've received many nice comments about the Munsters House art that he commissioned. Did he have to include it? No, but it added to the perceived value of the kit and was appreciated by many of those who bought it.

Chris


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

I think an online exclusive would HURT my local hobby shop, who needs all the business he can get!


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## the Dabbler (Feb 17, 2005)

All true Chris !! 
Having had a little art training, and having worked in retail, but especially being a "buyer" myself, I agree I am swayed by a great package presentation. But some members on here are in fear of facing a future sans styrene, and are willing to forego the 'niceties'. Those who know the subject of a kit are more willing to buy 
"unadorned", however, for brick & morter point-of-sale enticement, the packaging sells. I guess it depends on how/where the producer intends to sell, and to which market he directs his attention.


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## the Dabbler (Feb 17, 2005)

John P said:


> I think an online exclusive would HURT my local hobby shop, who needs all the business he can get!


That's possible JohnP, but the only local shop around me has half a store full of trains ( their 'specialty' I guess ) and one scrawny shelf of dusty models, mostly cars & planes. I like to buy there for the same reason as you, but they just don't have the inventory, either kits or paints/supplies.
Maybe the maker could send out fliers/Emails to those shops ( we could all send in addresses of our locals) and they could order them and make their markup. IF it saved us some shipping too it may not be bad??
Dabbler


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## Guess Who (May 19, 2004)

origAurora buyer said:


> Did I win something?
> 
> Try this one...."Monarch Models".
> 
> OAB


As in butterflys?

Guess Who


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## Dave Hussey (Nov 20, 1998)

Objectively speaking, I'll buy a model on line or at a store; as long as costs are not nuts for one option I don't have a major preference.

But I have to admit, there's nothing like walking into a store and seeing that cool model on the shelf with a great bit of box art and happily lugging it to the cash register.

And it is nice to put a dollar in the pocket of the guy who lives in your town and runs that neat little model/hobby/comic shop.

Huzz


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## Cro-Magnon Man (Jun 11, 2001)

Frankie Boy said:


> On another topic I didn't chime in on before: I would love to see all the knight models repopped.


Yes, the Knights were the main thing I was going to suggest, plus some of the other famous fighters, such as Crusader, Viking, Apache and Confederate. The good news about the Knights is that the molds are still in existence. They're listed in the Bill Bruegman Aurora book as among the molds RM still owns, and there was mention on another board here a few years ago that RM was cosidering reissuing them, though nothing came of it. 

My hope is that a new company might work with RM to issue the remaining Aurora figure kits which RM still has the molds for but has not used yet. I hope it's possible that there is still a MOM Creature and MOM Wolfman mold in existence, for example.


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## Cro-Magnon Man (Jun 11, 2001)

I too could live without the box, I should add, if it made the kit reissue more likely. For some of the kits I'd like to see reissued, the box art/photograph was pretty uninspiring anyway (Crusader, Viking, even the MOM kits), and I'd be happy with a bagged kit in order to have the pleasure of building the model.
Also, though this cannot be guaranteed, there would probably be a side-line in reissued boxes-only from some other company, "To go next to your built-up".


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## origAurora buyer (Jan 12, 1999)

Guess Who said:


> As in butterflys?
> 
> Guess Who


...or...as in flour. 

A hint was offered on another thread as to what this new company will be called....

The clue given was...."M******h Models"

OAB


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## Guess Who (May 19, 2004)

origAurora buyer said:


> ...or...as in flour.
> 
> A hint was offered on another thread as to what this new company will be called....
> 
> ...


Oh, O.K. Ummm. maybe MishMash Models, or MushMush Models, or.....

Guess Who


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## PRE-SCENES 2 (Aug 16, 2005)

If boxed or bagged is the subject now, I opt for the box (as long as the box art looks like the original kit itself). I have seen far to many boxes painted up to look NOTHING like the model and was very disappointed when I put it together. I thought Aurora and PL did a fine job with that. Besides, I agree with the others that the box helps sell the model. Color, design, composition, accuracy, description, etc., ALL are factors in the equation, whether you agree or not, to help sell you, the buyer, the product at hand. WE are all artistic minded folk here and aren’t fool by cheap sales schemes. I’d rather pay for a beauty of art than a clear bag clump of gray plastic pieces!

P-S2


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## irocer (Aug 22, 2000)

I buy both online and at shops- I prefer shops and hope that models could be marketed to them. They have the paints and other supplies, I do not wish to order online. I try to buy from them due to that reason. The online stuff I order are things I cannot readily get locally. Prehaps an online "only" at startup would be a good way to establish a customer base and lead that to future "online only" exclusives, etc.. Either way a strong customer support system and boxes are needed. If I purchased an online kit that is not bagged, I would expect a much lower price, IE: Mega's Kong, bagged is about a third of the boxed price.


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## Prince of Styrene II (Feb 28, 2000)

ChrisW said:


> You guys are killin' me here!!!
> 
> Kits on shelves need something to attract the eye, and there have been many threads talking about how an evocative painting enhances the kit.
> Does an online supplier need box art? If you are a low number garage kit company, no. But there is a professionalism and perceived value to an attractive package that can't be overlooked. Look at what Retro Resin is doing - the whole package from boxart to instructions and spare parts screams quality. Ditto Steve Iverson's offerings. I've received many nice comments about the Munsters House art that he commissioned. Did he have to include it? No, but it added to the perceived value of the kit and was appreciated by many of those who bought it.


 Chris, it's been so long since I've seen you "in context", I forgot all about your profession! :roll: You're right. What I was saying is what you said, "_Does an online supplier need box art? If you are a low number garage kit company, no_." That's what I was getting at. If it's online with no art or no release at all, I'd rather see it online.

But like I also said, there is a very enjoyable, tactile feeling of going into a brick & morter, hunting for a box & bringing it to the register. You can never get that online. So if a kit will only come to fruition online, then I say no art. If it can be at all possible put into my LHS, then by all means _use art_!!!


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## Frankie Boy (Feb 28, 2002)

Yes, by all means, a boxed, styrene figure kit, with attractive art work, purchased at your local hobby shop would be ideal. But it might not be as practical (ie: financially viable) to niche market these items this way. And as has been previously pointed out, we are indeed talking about a niche market (primarily, 40-year-old-plus males). But I confess that I am no business man, and I certainly do not know all the nuances of running a model making company. 
My only point was that if availablilty (certainly of the classic repops) can be made more feasible by on-line/ bagged only means, then I, personally, would have no problem with such an approach. The bottom line for me is put the plastic in my hands so I can build it.

Cheers.


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## Ignatz (Jun 20, 2000)

Don't get me wrong. I'm a HUGE fan of box art! But I recognize how much of an added expense that would add to the production. If if makes it more economically viable to place the kit parts in a plain shipping box, I'll still go for it! I think marketing model kits is extremely narrow. Cool box on the shelf will catch my eye, but if it's not something I'm already looking for, I'm not going to buy it anyway. I think box art as a selling tool isn't what it used to be. I'm much more sold on a kit seeing good pix of someone's build up. I view box art as going the way of Album art in this age of iTunes downloads. It still should be commissioned and used with the product because it gives the unassembled product and identity, AND it is an opportunity to give the company a unique "look", but it could be an insert or tipped onto the top of a plain box, rather than have custom boxes color printed. The box art (if interesting enough) could be put onto tabloid sized water color paper and offered as limited edition prints, making it another profit center that's at once distinct but still tied into the main product. 

I'm sad about the state of affairs for bricks and morter shops, and I count myself lucky that Sparetime Shoppe is still around (33 years!!), but box art won't turn the situation, and online exlusives won't make it worse either. I don't know how the retail distribution work, you have to go through middle men like Steven's International, Sentai or Squadron, right? Shop owners have to be convinced to devote 10-12 inches of shelf space to your product too. So, yea, snappy box art will help distinguish the kit on a crowded fixture, but it sounds like a lot of hoops to jump through and if a company starts making product planning decisions based on jumping through those hoops, rather than making something because it's a cool, maybe obscure kit, then I say, produce the cool, obscure kit, stick it in a box and I'll buy it anyway. If cool, ready for framing box art is available too, great! I'd buy that to go with my cool obscure kit!


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## A Taylor (Jan 1, 1970)

2009?
What the...?
How long are you guys going to continue extending your chains to be yanked?


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## Scott Hasty (Jul 10, 2003)

Glad to know that I'm not the only, um....skeptical one here.

Scottie


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## Hunch (Apr 6, 2003)

And April 1st is just around the corner.
Hunch


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

A Taylor said:


> 2009?
> What the...?
> How long are you guys going to continue extending your chains to be yanked?


 Three more years, apparently .

Hey, we'll probably forget all about it by then. Then we'll either be pleasantly surprised when it all comes true, or, eh, we'll have forgotten all about it.


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## pagni (Mar 20, 1999)

*You're not alone..... yank away !*

How many companies are in the habit of fishing for ideas, feedback etc.
on an online forum for a company that no longer exists ?
You really do have to suspend your disbelief to swallow any of this 31 Racine Rd stuff. Is it really possible that in this day and age that a newly created company wouldn't have the capitol to finance their own R&D (quietly ?) 
Did you see Tom Lowe trolling the chat boards, want ads and model and toy collector magazines when he decided to start Polar Lights ?
I'd *really* like to not hear *anything* more from this 31 Racine until the product hits the shelves. (if ever)


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## CaptFrank (Jan 29, 2005)

*Box or no box?*

If the question is "Should the kit have a box?", my answer 
is no. 

As a new company, don't waste the money trying to offer 
pretty boxes just for online sales.

I use the box my models come in to spray paint parts on.

Then, the box goes straight to the local dump.

I don't need a box.

I would have bought the Polar Lights 1:350 *USS ENTERPRISE 
NCC-1701-A* if it had come in a paper bag!


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## Scott Hasty (Jul 10, 2003)

pagni said:


> How many companies are in the habit of fishing for ideas, feedback etc.
> on an online forum for a company that no longer exists ?
> You really do have to suspend your disbelief to swallow any of this 31 Racine Rd stuff. Is it really possible that in this day and age that a newly created company wouldn't have the capitol to finance their own R&D (quietly ?)
> Did you see Tom Lowe trolling the chat boards, want ads and model and toy collector magazines when he decided to start Polar Lights ?
> I'd *really* like to not hear *anything* more from this 31 Racine until the product hits the shelves. (if ever)


Nope, 'cause he had a business plan. The fact that this individual came to this board to ask us how the kits should be packaged and distributed tells me there is no business plan. No business plan = NO BUSINESS. Not to mention the INCREDIBLE problem with property rights.

Dave M. must be laughing his keister off!

Sorry, guys, I smell a snipe hunt!

Scottie


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## 1bluegtx (Aug 13, 2004)

Although three years does seem like a long time.I've said this before it is possible to start a model company.Having worked in injection molding a good part of my life i have toyed with the idea a few times.I just can't bring myself to mortgage my house.And if they are doing alot of the work themselves it might take a while.
And yes Tom did run an ad in toy shop stating that a michigan toy company would like to rent or borrow a few original aurora kits.I might still have the ad around someplace.

BRIAN


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## Rebel Rocker (Jan 26, 2000)

Well, for myself, snipe or not, part of the enjoyment, for me, about this hobby as a kid, was going into a store, knowing that a new kit was due out, and approaching the model shelves, with swiftly scanning eyes, hunting for that new box. Finding it, turning it over and over in my hands, looking at the great box art, the feeling of anticipation on the trip home, it was all part of the modeling experience. Sure, now I'm an adult (though some would argue the point) but, I still like having that box to look at, and, no, I don't throw them out. 


And, being kinda anal about keeping the boxes, the big advantage of buying at a store is being able to pick a box that is in excellent shape. We all have horror stories about things arriving in not-too-spectacular shape through the mails. Would a company be willing to exchange items because there was a crease in the box? Nitpicking? Maybe, but, it's my money I'm spending so I can be anal if I want.:tongue: 

Besides, I happen to love Chris White's work, and for me it definitely enhances the purchase!!

ALL THAT BEING SAID: If it came down to a choice of the kit becoming available or not, I could live with a bagged kit online rather than no kit at all. But, I wouldn't prefer it.

Wayne


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## xsavoie (Jun 29, 1999)

This thread has been a little long.Shouldn't we make a new one that concentrates on " How to have a successful model kit industry" If some of you have experience in business,or simply have good serious ideas on how it must be done in order to that such an enterprise has the best chance of success,please do so.Teaching us the A B C' s of this industry would be very enlightening.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

^You do it the way Tom Lowe did it - start a company that makes cool products people want, make those cool products for ten years, then just when you manage to get the Star Trek license, sell out to RC2 and walk away with millions while your former customers get the rug yanked out from under them.

It's easy!


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## CaptFrank (Jan 29, 2005)

^^

Bitter, John P?


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## lisfan (Feb 15, 1999)

i can see why people can be pessimistic but im going to be optimistic . lets give them plenty of encouragement. if it comes to be i will have plenty of dough to spend by then. you go guys !!!!!!!!!!!:thumbsup:  :thumbsup:


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## AFILMDUDE (Nov 27, 2000)

Hope springs eternal.


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## Craig Jorgensen (Nov 21, 2004)

I guess online shopping is the way to go. The hobby shops are all gone by me, except for Hobby Lobby, and a declining hobby department at of all places Ace Hardware. In fact, most of the things that I'm into have to be purchaced online now, or at swap meets. In addition to models and slot cars, that means cameras and photo supplies, music and videos, computer stuff, even car and motorcycle parts. Unless I want to drive an hour to find a store with a limited selection and pay full retail plus sales tax, that is.


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## DinoMike (Jan 1, 1970)

Y'know, I know the whole LAPCO bit kinda made us all skeptical about claims of "a new figure kit company"... but let's not be TOO harsh on 31 Racine. Maybe it'll happen, maybe not... we're all adults here, and should be able to keep a healthy perspective on the situation. To me, it's like a game... he asks for suggestions, I pitch a few. If it does come to pass in 2009, great... if not, hey... I'm not out any $$$, and it's a fun game of "what if..."


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## Frankie Boy (Feb 28, 2002)

Ohhhh, so you guys want to be realistic. Well, realistically then ... the styrene figure modelling business is dead and gone. Polar Lights was the last great gasp of a dying industry once held near and dear by those now middle-aged men holding the cold dead hand of that model building corspe.

Sooo .... Racine, any idea on what's going to be the first model off the production line? It better be Dr. J & H!

Cheers,
Frankie Boy


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## CaptFrank (Jan 29, 2005)

*31 Racine Road*

Are you still taking figure kit suggestions?

How about the Founding Fathers?

George Washington at his desk, Benjamin Franklin with a kite,
the Constitutional Convention (huge diorama!), etc.


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## the Dabbler (Feb 17, 2005)

Does it realy matter if this is a put-on or not ? No-one has asked me to donate a dime, it's only cost us a few minutes typing, and given a good excuse to air our wish lists. I personally don't even know if I'll be around three years from now. If I am. and still modelling, I'm ahead of the game, if not, what will it matter. 
See, getting old does give you some perspective on things !! And don't deny it HAS been fun for most just jawing and speculating !
Dabbler


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## 1:8 scale (Mar 25, 2006)

There are several great bricks and mortar stores in Michigan and I visit them alot. I would go to them first as a sign of support. After that the appeal of the world wide web market is the greatest boon to business since the industrial revolution and Henry Ford (Detroit pride).

Geesh, the posts on page 3 by the Haters, are kinda disturbing really. Aren't there moderators on this BB?


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

CaptFrank said:


> ^^
> 
> Bitter, John P?


 ME!? Naaaaaaaaah!


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## CaptFrank (Jan 29, 2005)

^^


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## Scott Hasty (Jul 10, 2003)

1:8 scale said:


> There are several great bricks and mortar stores in Michigan and I visit them alot. I would go to them first as a sign of support. After that the appeal of the world wide web market is the greatest boon to business since the industrial revolution and Henry Ford (Detroit pride).
> 
> Geesh, the posts on page 3 by the Haters, are kinda disturbing really. Aren't there moderators on this BB?


Hater, no. Realistic, yes. I find it interesting that 31 Racine hasn't said much since the nay-sayers started. Some [maybe a lot] here think creating a model company is getting molds, injecting plastic, filling boxes and making people happy. Read any of the posts Mr. Metzer or Mr. Sasser wrote concerning tooling costs, communicating with a foreign contractor and numerous set-backs and you'll see capital expenditure is something beyond most of us. Investors, sure, there could be investors, and this may be a reason we've seen these postings. But, and it a BIG "BUT" investors pull out at the drop of a hat, funds get mis-used, etc (sound familier?).

As far as what's wrong with what 31 Racine is saying? Nothing, nothing at all. I'm just tired of _some_ individuals taking somehting said on a lark as gold and then start flaming when it doesn't come to fruition.  

If this does come to play, then this will be a BIG piece of humble pie I'd be GLAD to eat! But, again, what I've seen, this smells of a fan-boy wish rather than an actual business start-up. 

Scottie


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## pagni (Mar 20, 1999)

*Hater ? No.. not quite just being realistic.*



1:8 scale said:


> There are several great bricks and mortar stores in Michigan and I visit them alot. I would go to them first as a sign of support. After that the appeal of the world wide web market is the greatest boon to business since the industrial revolution and Henry Ford (Detroit pride).
> 
> Geesh, the posts on page 3 by the Haters, are kinda disturbing really. Aren't there moderators on this BB?


 Let me clarify, I don't hate any individual who decides that a good idea would be to start up a model co. to fill the void left by the dissolution of Polar Lights. (or any other kit co. for that matter, and there are plenty!) 

It's like that old joke: Say , did you hear they took the word gullible out of the dictionary ? ...
There really isn't anything stopping anyone that participates on this forum from simply announcing that they are going to start up a company by releasing a re-issue Big Frankie in three (!) years. 
If the Polar Lights number crunchers thought it was a bad idea, just what makes it all of a sudden a good idea for a completely unknown co. to coyly trumpet that their first proposed release would be a kit that would turn out to be a logistic nightmare to produce. 
There are of course other factors to consider, the state of the hobby (declining sales) the economy and the amount of discretionary income that
hobbyists have to spend. The price of oil and the corresponding effect that is has on styrene pellets, and the manufacturing process. ( why do you think PL sent all there kits to China for manufacture ? CHEAP LABOR ) 
Are we going to see a post on this forum from the 31 Racine folks asking if anyone knows a good plastic injection molder in China ?
I could go on... but I think I've made my point.
I'm no _hater_, I'm a _thinker_. 
And I think this will go the way of Lapco.


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## 1:8 scale (Mar 25, 2006)

*Hmmmm......*

Scott

I see your point. Having read this thread was part of the reason I decided to finally join the PLBB. It actually has me excited that there is something on the horizon.

But where is the middle ground? You say "racine" does not post. "pagni" sounds like he'll unleash the fists of fury if "racine" does post. 

We wonder why we have to wait for three years, and then turn around and say "there is no business plan". Maybe tomorrow "racine" goes to the bank with the plan that was shaped by postings here, which cost nothing. As opposed to the R and D costs, which were lamented by others as missing the mark time and time again. 

"xsavoie" say lets use our collective wisdom to design a successful prototype business for future entrenpenuers (sp?), but there is a prior page three hate mail saying, "He asks about packaging....."?!?! I will start my own thread based on "xsavoie" thread. Please don't hurt me.

To me, it's a funny thing. We, especially me, want to see a styrene company come along that actually listens to us. And when that looks like what has happened, "racine" is tarred and feathered, maybe an effigy of "racine" is burning on "pagni" front lawn right now. 

Again I ask for the middle ground. So far I have invested my fascination in what I have been reading, only that. And as for that, nobody put a styrene gun to my head and made me read it, or reply, or not. 

But I say this. I will openly support any persons "fan boy" fantasy to create a kit company from thin air. Heck I am doing it right now....let's see, U.N.C.L.E., Dr. J., Phantom. Uh oh I see "pagni" I better clam up.


Jeff :wave: :hat: :tongue: 

Sorry Pagni, I just get a little put off when the first ammendment get stepped on. Speaking of Founding Fathers kits...


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## 1:8 scale (Mar 25, 2006)

*I usta spell so gud*

put off when the first ammendment get stepped on. Speaking of Founding Fathers kits...[/QUOTE]

Sorry, _*amendment*_, I was typing with a baby on my lap.

Jeff


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## 1bluegtx (Aug 13, 2004)

Come on guys Cinemodels did it with the forgotten prisoner and the phantom of the opera.(granted the molds were already made) And you do not have to go to China to have things made.You can have molds made,parts ran,boxes etc all within a hundred miles or so from where you live.At least give the guy a chance it could happen.

BRIAN


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## pagni (Mar 20, 1999)

1bluegtx said:


> Come on guys Cinemodels did it with the forgotten prisoner and the phantom of the opera.(granted the molds were already made) And you do not have to go to China to have things made.You can have molds made,parts ran,boxes etc all within a hundred miles or so from where you live.At least give the guy a chance it could happen.
> 
> BRIAN


 To my knowledge Cinemodels barely broke even on the Forgotten Prisoner re-issue. You're right, you don't have to go to China to have things made.
But you do have to go to China if you'd like to have things made and expect
to turn a profit.


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## pagni (Mar 20, 1999)

1:8 scale said:


> Scott
> 
> I see your point. Having read this thread was part of the reason I decided to finally join the PLBB. It actually has me excited that there is something on the horizon.
> 
> ...


 Jeff,
Your unbridled optimism is refreshing. 
And I most definitely am NOT stepping on anyones first amendment rights, I am however, exercising mine .


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## PRE-SCENES 2 (Aug 16, 2005)

Hey, I'm just having fun reading this thread. My hopes aren't up too high, that way if it isn't true, I won't fall very hard. If it's true, however, I'll be estatic over the millions of choices we have to choose from. 

P-S2


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## ClubTepes (Jul 31, 2002)

I guess I'm a bit spoiled (or should consider myself lucky) but I've got about 9 or 10 hobby shops around me in Metro-Detroit. Only a couple of good ones though. And if by chance they are a couple of bucks higher - I don't mind paying because they are a good shop and deserve to stay in business.

So I don't do any on-line business.
I have to hold a kit in my hand before I can buy it. 

Even all the resin stuff I see on-line, I don't buy it until I hold it in my hand at a place like Wonderfest.

Box presentation is important, though I'm not a big fan of paintings (sorry Chris - its a generalization). What impresses me are photos of the completed model. In my mind its a matter of pride. "See how good this kit looks built".

AMT/Ertl always P.O'ed me on kits with no photos because it seemed as though they wanted to hide just how crappy the model is.

Even today on their re-releases, they let a 6 year old do the build up of their kits and that doesn't encourage me to take another look at the kit.


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## 1:8 scale (Mar 25, 2006)

*ClubTepes is right on!*

We are really lucky in the Metro Detroit area. There is a great hobby shop in Port Huron owned by Gary Kenny. 

And to Pagni and Scott: it looks like peace once again settles on the land :thumbsup: 

More model building, less typing for me.


Jeff


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## DinoMike (Jan 1, 1970)

Getting back to the brick-&-mortar hobby shop vs. online sales... my thoughts would be: If a particular model can't be made profitably EXCEPT as an online sale, go that route. Whenever possible, give the dwindling number of brick & mortar stores something to sell.


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## 1bluegtx (Aug 13, 2004)

You know the more i think about it,the hardest part of reissueing a big frankie would be finding a boxed big frankie! that alone could take three years!

BRIAN


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## xsavoie (Jun 29, 1999)

Are the words New Thread a mistake.Maybe I meant new posting.I just have in mind for everyone to continue this fascinating conversation under a new title that would concentrate on teaching us about the best steps to follow in order to possibly build a very succesful model kit company.Just curiosity,perhaps.Even 31 Racine Rd might learn from it.


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## razorwyre1 (Jan 28, 2004)

1:8 scale: im missing out..... where in port huron? what's its name?


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## beck (Oct 22, 2003)

31 , as to the original question , i think it's a good idea . 
can't wait to see what '09 brings . 
hb


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## 1:8 scale (Mar 25, 2006)

*Razorwyre*



razorwyre1 said:


> 1:8 scale: im missing out..... where in port huron? what's its name?


Past Time Hobbies

Very good store :thumbsup: :wave:


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## Just Plain Al (Sep 7, 1999)

1:8 scale said:


> Past Time Hobbies
> 
> Very good store :thumbsup: :wave:


I've got a straight shot 45 miles down I-69, where would it be from the end of the freeway? (I-69/M-25 interchange)


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## 1:8 scale (Mar 25, 2006)

*Plain Al*



Just Plain Al said:


> I've got a straight shot 45 miles down I-69, where would it be from the end of the freeway? (I-69/M-25 interchange)



Yes take the I-69 to the last exit before the bridge, (the I-69 and the I-94 blend together). The exit will dump you off on 14th Ave. You will be on it for about 10 seconds before you have to turn right (east) on Hancock. You will take the next left (north) on Pine Grove Ave (M-25) and you're there in another 10 seconds. It is in a little plaza called "The Grove". If you go north of Garfield, you over shot it. The Grove is on the east side of the street. 

It's a great place, to me. :thumbsup: :wave: 

Jeff


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## Just Plain Al (Sep 7, 1999)

Sweet. Maybe I'll head that way this weekend, my boy wants to hit Gander Mountain anyway.


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## Mark McGovern (Apr 25, 1999)

To answer 31 Racine Rd.'s question first: yeah I'd buy a model I wanted online (done it on eBay! often enough). But I'd prefer to support my local hobby stores. And I'm a sucker for good box art; I've got two of Cee Dub's prints hanging above me as I type this.


As for 31 R.R.'s sincerity - well, if all he's done turns out to be nothing more than an over extended wish list, there's been plenty of them posted before. He hasn't really hurt anybody so far, nobody's lost any money, right? So I'm going to follow my standard policy of hoping for the best and being prepared for the worst.

And to kill time between now and 2009, I'm going to build models. It's fun - you guys should try it sometime...


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## The Batman (Mar 21, 2000)

razorwyre1 said:


> 1:8 scale: im missing out..... where in port huron? what's its name?


When I was a kid living in Port Huron ( some 40 years ago ) I remember my favorite place was BELL'S HOBBY SHOP which, if I recall correctly, was located near the Military Street Bridge:










- GJS

Anyone want to send me a CONEY ISLAND hot dog and a VERNORS ginger ale? I'll give you a Sgt. Sacto salute!


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## Just Plain Al (Sep 7, 1999)

GJS

What style coney do you want, Detroit sauce or Flint sauce? Ones dry and meaty the others more creamy. Vernors just isn't the same since it got bought by 7-UP, doesn't have that "bite" anymore, even out of staters can drink it without coughing on the strong ginger flavor.


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## The Batman (Mar 21, 2000)

Al,

Yeah, I know.... I can actually get Vernors here in Salt Lake City and you're right. It's not the same as when I was a kid. It's still got that great _taste_ but it doesn't make me sneeze anymore.
Actually, I can sometimes get it to make me sneeze if I buy it in cans - but, the stuff in those litre bottles goes too weak.










Regarding the Coneys - there used to be a little joint in downtown Port Huron across the street from the McMorran Auditorium that used to sell the absolute *best* coney dogs. But, I understand that they sold the recipe to some other establishment and they've 'watered' it down... nothing's as good as it was in my youth! *SIGH*









- GJS

BTW, if you can find it... I _HIGHLY_ recommend STEWART'S GINGER BEER. It has the classic flavor of Vernors golden ginger ale but, it's BOLD & SPICY. In fact, it may be a little too bold. My perfect blend is 50/50 of both.


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