# problem starting MTD Ranch King



## yursparky (Mar 12, 2005)

mowing here in oregon is a year round activity. i've been mowing my 1/2 acre with a push mower for years, but last year i picked up a used 38" MTD with 12 HP Briggs. lately when I'd try to start it would turn over a few times before firing, and now it doesn't start at all. I can hear the solenoid clicking, the engine would turn just 1/4 turn or not at all. I am not a mechanic, but I have a feeling it's something I could fix myself, I'm just not sure what the problem is. If someone could point me in a right direction I would appreciate it.


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## bbnissan (Nov 7, 2004)

Check the wire that runs from the negative side of the battery to the frame and make sure that the connections aren't corroded or rusted. If the ground wire is ok, you most likely have a bad or weak battery. Since you say the engine will turn over some times, that pretty much rules out the starter motor, starter solenoid, and ignition switch.

Before you just go and replace the battery, you should remove it and take it to an autoparts store that can test it. They will do a load test on it and determine if it needs to be replaced. If you have the battery tested and it checks out ok, you may have a bad clutch safety switch or blade safety switch.


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## roperdude91 (Nov 10, 2004)

hey, sounds like mine, 38" mtd rider with a 12hp i/c
mines doing the same thing, i know for sure that the battery is low and the starter drive gear is eaten up also hehe
grandfather trying to start it with the fuel valve off, it aint gonna run with no gas to the carb


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## bugman (Aug 12, 2004)

well first off, the clicking, that sounds like the battery is dead or worn out and has just enough power to pop it. trust me, either clean the battery connections, or buy a new battery, your better off with another battery to try it. plus a new battery is cheap.


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## yursparky (Mar 12, 2005)

hey, thanks for your replies. the battery was new when i got the mower last year and it worked ok last season, and it worked fine last weekend, but I went ahead and disconnected it and put it on a trickle charger. then I took the battery plastic holder out to check on the ground wire connection, and I found the negative wire was connected to the solenoid, and positive to the frame! also I found the seat's switch wires disconnected and just hanging inside, plus two more wires (yellow and orange) disconnected from where i couldn't tell. And a wire not on the diagram going to the igmition switch just barely stabbed in - fell out when I was tracing it - obviously somebody's homemade work around a switch or two. You think that might be a problem? just wish I knew how the switches are connected - normally open or closed? - i think the mower has three switches - seat, blades engage/disengage and one more I can't tell what - the wires hide under the engine
you can see the diagram here
i'm not sure how to test them - there are five wires going to the blades lever switch - or how to bypass them to see if a problem is elsewhere
any help is greatly appreciated


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## yursparky (Mar 12, 2005)

roperdude - that's exactly what i got


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## bugman (Aug 12, 2004)

well if its the starter gear thats easy to replace, his is a statesman which is just a mtd, may be the solenoid is fried, or a safety switch is bad. when did this exactly start happening??


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## yursparky (Mar 12, 2005)

bugman - i meant to say, sounds like i have the same mower as roperdude, i'm not sure if it's the same problem
when did it happen? - last sunday i was mowing my lawn when i ran out of gas, so i filled it up and i couldn't start it since. it was the first time i mowed in a few months, so low battery might be an issue, it's still charging.


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## bugman (Aug 12, 2004)

hahah you might have the problem i have had as well, i too have a briggs 12hp I/C on a very old noma, now it has been ran out of gas but the battery must be good enough to turn it over long enough to pull fuel into the fuel bowl. you might should check and smell for gas, and you might be able to get her going so to pull the fuel in by trickling gas into the carb while turning it over, doesn't sound like its not a problem at all just it ran it dry, check the oil often and change it, those 12's are good engines


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## yursparky (Mar 12, 2005)

i think i figured out what the heck is all the loose wires - whoever had the mower before had disconnected the wire from the solenoid to the switches, disconnected the two seat switch wires and one switch is also missing but the wire that goes to it is there - this explaines the four loose connectors. the new wire that goes from the solenoid is the bypass and probably connects to the start terminal on the ignition, since it wasn't stabbed in and barely hung by a strand that would explain the poor operation of the starter. does this sound right? i'll check this theory tomorrow with a freshly charged battery


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## bugman (Aug 12, 2004)

well yeah you could try making that connection better, but ahhh jerry rigged mowers are well, there is many of em, most don't require much. if now sometimes a wire like that would be the kill wire but i don't know what the dude did to it or how he rigged it up but usually taking the seat switch requires just connecting the wires to each other, and the blade switch requires some strp or tape to hold it on and the switch to prevent starting while the trans is engaged usually just well doing the same to that. but try making that connection better and see if that helps, because if it was connected it needs to be connected then, my noma is rigged basically with the seat switch ripped off and the wire's crossed, ans the switches tapped on and nothing else. just ain't there to know what it looks like


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## yursparky (Mar 12, 2005)

thanks bugman, i will see if that works tomorrow


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## bugman (Aug 12, 2004)

yeah, usually if a wire is hanging by a thread like i've seen em like that, no power hardly will get through


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## yursparky (Mar 12, 2005)

*update*

well, i got the mower stripped to the bones basically, found a few problems, major one being the positive cable from the battery had only one strand that wasn't broken in the crimp connector - there's the poor starting power problem, so i fixed that, and now flywheel turns great but i can't seem to get a spark, the gas is not a problem, since i can feel gas on the spark plug when i remove it, the spark plug that MTD website recommends is way too long, and the one that in the mower has no markings. the mower model number is 134H470F205, i think it's the 400 series, any suggestions?


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## scrench (Dec 8, 2004)

the engine takes a j19-lm champion #,,, if power has been sent to the wire that goes to the coil then get out wallet and and kiss a couple twenties by by .. dont know if you know how to find the kill wire that goes to the coil if you dont i will tell you , take a test light and see if there is power going to the wire that goes to the coil if there is then thats wrong ,,,


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## yursparky (Mar 12, 2005)

go ahead and explaine, just so there's no questions


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## bugman (Aug 12, 2004)

go ahead and try another plug or that one in another engine, they take a j19lm champion or what i use a 458 autolite. you may have a wire connected wrong


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## yursparky (Mar 12, 2005)

i got the right spark plug - j19lm, but still no luck, is the ignition coil burned out? the wire that goes to the ignition module is connected (kill wire?) and it's connected to the key switch, but the safety switches are disconnected, does that still matter, if so should that wire be disconnected while i am trying to start the mower, i am just not clear on what it does, on the electrical diagram it says "mag" on the terminal of the key switch that this wire is connected to.


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## bugman (Aug 12, 2004)

there is a good chance it might have fried though, take the plug out, leave it hooked to the plug wire and have it so its not touching anything and make sure your using rubber handle pliers, and turn it over to see if its getting spark.


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## yursparky (Mar 12, 2005)

well, i don't know what i did, but i took the spurk plug out, checked for spark - it had a spark, put it back in and it started right up, let it run for a few minutes, turned it off (found out what the kill wire does), started right up again. great? put the mower back together (almost), tried to start it again - dead as a doorknob, used a jump wire to jump the solenoid - barely had any power to turn (just like before i started) i think i'll order the key switch, and the solenoid, replace those and the wiring - cause i am tired of guessing what is loose now
thanks for all your replies - this has surely been an educational and frustrating experience


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## bugman (Aug 12, 2004)

oh yeah, solenoids and key switches are very cheap at advance auto, and they fit pretty much every mower, you could use another harness from another mower as well. oh and i am glad your not a it don't work so i'll trash it person, thats who i got the noma from, a it doesn't work so i'll buy one that does person. i beleive that your solenoid just might be on its last, the noma i have was the same way. plus that and a key switch and all was fine. go figure


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## scrench (Dec 8, 2004)

be sure that the solenoid is grounded


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## scrench (Dec 8, 2004)

is the deck on it ? make sure the belt is not too tight it might be pulling the blades on the blade brakes


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## bugman (Aug 12, 2004)

yeah there should be a tiny wire that grounds out and sometimes they pop off very easy, forgot about that. it has been a while since i've messed with a newer one. usually the blades etc wouldn't have nothing to do with it as long as the kill switches are all disconnected. but it could be that the solenoid is fried and is working sometimes and sometimes it won't, or a connection got knocked off again when starting it.


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## roperdude91 (Nov 10, 2004)

mines!!


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