# Prototype S-foil positioning mechanism - X-wing



## Hagoth (Mar 12, 2015)

This current project was inspired by my very old 1:48 scale MPC X-Wing.

As a kid I remember being pretty impressed with the working wings in spite of the wonky mechanism to allow it. Lately the wobbly out of synch rocking of the wings independent of the body and each other has been bugging me. I can see right through the model from side to side as well as into the back and front of the wing box. The wings are also beginning to sag quite a bit. So, I set out to design a mechanism to fix all those problems.

Here are the results so far:

http://hagoth.wix.com/the-brass-ball#!pm-1a/cjex

While made for the 1:48 scale MPC X-wing the mechanism can be adapted for pretty much any kit. Manual or motorized. Projects to adapt it to the 1:35 Pro-Shop version and scratch built 1:24 scale versions are already on the project schedule. I can hardly wait to put it in a VII TFA X-Wing when the 1:48 scale version is released.

While I'm very interested in general comments on the concept so far, for any scale, I'm particularly interested in those fellow modelers that also have the old MPC kit (a lot of time has been spent on many of them) and their thoughts on my mechanism being offered to the community as an option to upgrade it's former glory.

_________________
"It's kind of fun to do the impossible." - Walt Disney


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## eagledocf15 (Nov 4, 2008)

*Are they for sale or Presale?*

Are they for sale or Pre-sale?


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## Hagoth (Mar 12, 2015)

If I get enough interest they will be. 

I'm currently working on bringing the cost down from the 3D printed prototype stage. All I can say at the moment is that a sub $190 version is very very possible. Yeah, I know, expensive but that was the cost of the unit in the video which was a mix of 120 micron and 16 micron 3D printed parts so that is where I have to start. My target price is at least half that for a production unit. A special pre-sale price beyond that might be considered, again based on the amount of interest there is. 

Other than that I can create units on an as requested basis and work out a deal with those interested.


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## Hagoth (Mar 12, 2015)

By the way, in case there are others that are having trouble figuring out that the last image in the development log is just an image link to the video and not supposed to be the video itself (video link is in the bottom left corner of the image) here is the direct link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28Q2ZbuiFAc


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## veedubb67 (Jul 11, 2003)

If you rotated the unit 180 degrees, could you connect a motor or solenoid to it inside the body? Just curious.

Rob
Iwata Padawan


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## Hagoth (Mar 12, 2015)

The current version is the manually operated version. It will be operated through the servo hub on the back of the model. It is intended for my old original build. Details on how that will work will come later.

A motor is intended to go in the same place as the manual drive on a shortened driver shaft and mount directly to the back support. The motor I will likely use is a small micro motor only 9 mm long. With 13 mm of space to play with I have plenty of room.

You are right that it could be flipped around 180 so the motor is under R2. In my case, I need to room there for some other features I plan to add to my un-built kit. Aside from powered S-foils I also want to include:

*Internal battery with a hidden USB charging port out the back.
*Lit engines, cockpit, and possibly R2.
*Control board with a sound chip.
*Bluetooth voice control.

Ambitious, I know. I will likely need some serious help with all this. The end goal is to have everything internal with no external wires or power supply showing. 

Come on, I know someone else out there has had this dream! 

_________________
"It's kind of fun to do the impossible." - Walt Disney


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## ResinRay (May 20, 2014)

$190 for the 1:48 version is pretty steep for something that would go in a $25 model .What I would recommend is design the unit where it can be taken apart so you can mold it and cast as many as you want, because at that high price you won't get many takers you may get a few but most would go for a less expensive version.


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## Hagoth (Mar 12, 2015)

Oh, as I mentioned that will *not* be the final price of a kit, by any stretch of the imagination. I will not be using prototyping methods for production kits. Way too expensive. Not bad though for a first try fully working prototype. :tongue: I'm very pleased with how smoothly this has gone so far from concept to working prototype.

The unit comes apart in 14 pieces of which most can be cast or injection molded and retain the high tolerance required for the unit to work as intended. There are two parts that are proving very difficult to cast and at least one of them may remain a high tolerance print, but that part alone has minimal cost so I'm not too concerned. The production kit price will come way down.

I'm currently waiting for the high tolerance parts to be used for making the molds to arrive.

Production kits will be either resin or high strength plastic. They will still likely be more expensive than the kit they go in but then most upgrade kits are that way. The resulting performance of the upgrade will be well worth the cost. 

With that said if anyone does want a custom made (numbered and signed?) prototype unit at cost...


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## oemscalemodels.com (Mar 13, 2015)

Hagoth said:


> Oh, as I mentioned that will *not* be the final price of a kit, by any stretch of the imagination. I will not be using prototyping methods for production kits. Way too expensive. Not bad though for a first try fully working prototype. :tongue: I'm very pleased with how smoothly this has gone so far from concept to working prototype.
> 
> The unit comes apart in 14 pieces of which most can be cast or injection molded and retain the high tolerance required for the unit to work as intended. There are two parts that are proving very difficult to cast and at least one of them may remain a high tolerance print, but that part alone has minimal cost so I'm not too concerned. The production kit price will come way down.
> 
> ...


oh, my dear friend

If you need a perfect model, the prototype is a must, no prototyping, no precise model!!!
Sometime, we want to pay money for what we get.


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## PauliusLiekis (Feb 16, 2015)

I like quality of the prints. Is it postprocessed? What printer are you using?


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## Hagoth (Mar 12, 2015)

oemscalemodels.com said:


> oh, my dear friend
> 
> If you need a perfect model, the prototype is a must, no prototyping, no precise model!!!


Ah, the value of a prototype. I see I have a kindred spirit here.


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## Hagoth (Mar 12, 2015)

PauliusLiekis said:


> I like quality of the prints. Is it postprocessed? What printer are you using?


Thank you for stopping by! Man, your project is awesome.

The prints are not post processed except for a little sanding in some key areas to get the tolerance back in spec. That is the raw surface finish right off the printer after the support material was dissolved off with water.

The gray parts came off a big Fortus printer at 120 micron resolution and the translucent white parts inside came from an Eden printer at 16 micron resolution.

I use Invent-A-Part as my printing service. https://www.inventapart.com/ They are also the maker of the RigidBot 3D printer. They have been very good to work with over the years and I highly recommend them if anyone needs 3D printed parts.

If all goes as planned I will have my own dual head RigidBot Big 3D printer by the end of the month. It has 100 micron resolution.

My prototyping cost will soon drop dramatically. :woohoo:


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## MartyS (Mar 11, 2014)

Hagoth said:


> If all goes as planned I will have my own dual head RigidBot Big 3D printer by the end of the month. It has 100 micron resolution.


There are so many printers coming out now, guess I shouldn't be surprised at not hearing about this one.

That is a huge printer for that price, but the drawback is very long print times.
I just finished building a large printer 200x250x230mm out of various different parts, and haven't really used the full size because of the crazy long print times.

If you do get the larger printer make sure you get the LCD and card reader, you don't want to have to keep a computer connected to it for 2 days without interruption if you do print something large...


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## Hagoth (Mar 12, 2015)

MartyS said:


> If you do get the larger printer make sure you get the LCD and card reader, you don't want to have to keep a computer connected to it for 2 days without interruption if you do print something large...


Spot on! LCD and USB reader port will be included for that very reason. While it is printing away I will be at the computer designing the next job if not cleaning off support material from the previous. I wanted the large bed to do both mass quantities of small parts as well as large shells. 

I've seen this printer work and seen the quality of that comes off it. The printer is actually quite fast for being so big and one of the few that I've seen capable of spanning .25" gaps with out sagging.


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## MartyS (Mar 11, 2014)

Hagoth said:


> I've seen this printer work and seen the quality of that comes off it. The printer is actually quite fast for being so big and one of the few that I've seen capable of spanning .25" gaps with out sagging.


I've got 2 fans on my home made printer, with PLA I can get 10 to 15mm bridges without sagging. ABS is harder to do that because of the higher temperatures needed. The first mods most people do is mess around with fans and fan shrouds to get good cooling of the extruded plastic.

I'm still not sure how they make that printer so cheaply, looks like you could do PLA (no heated bed) on the large one for around $600. Just the metal hardware and electronics for a large Mendel would run close to that, and then you'd still have to print out all the plastic parts. 

A year ago when I got into 3D printing I wish that printer was around, it would have saved me some money. I started with the Printrbot simple wooden 4x4x4 inch kit, moved up to the Printrbot simple metal 6x6x6 inch model, then got some larger hardware and reused the parts from the first kit and printed parts to build my current 8x10x9 inch one. Building and modifying printers can get somewhat addictive, since getting my 2 printing very well I keep having to resist the urge to tear one apart and try a new design...


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## PauliusLiekis (Feb 16, 2015)

That's nice! I spent a lot of time with sanding paper and putty  I think would get better prints now after resolving most of the problems with my printer. Next project will be easier

And yeah having 3D printer at home speeds up prototyping a lot


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## Hagoth (Mar 12, 2015)

My printer came today! :woohoo:

RigidBot Big, dual head, heated bed, USB port and LCD.

It does need to be assembled which may be part of why it is less money for the size but then most out there assemble their own printers anyway. I have a spool of ABS and one of PLA. PVA Soluble support material will be on it way soon.

Now for a build update on my project. I have the concept for the manually operated connection through the servo hub completed. I'll try to post design rendering by the end of the week.


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## PauliusLiekis (Feb 16, 2015)

Congrats!  Have fun with it


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## Hagoth (Mar 12, 2015)

After several hijacks of my time I'm back on track.

Here are the links to my progress on designing the manual mechanism for operating the wings through the servo hub on the back of the model. Any one of the links will allow you to scroll through the other images.

Clutch parts - http://hagoth.wix.com/the-brass-ball#!Manual Clutch Parts/zoom/cjex/image_i36

Parts installed - http://hagoth.wix.com/the-brass-ball#!Manual Clutch Parts/zoom/cjex/image_1o5i

Interface with back plate and servo hub - http://hagoth.wix.com/the-brass-ball#!Manual Clutch Parts/zoom/cjex/image_1w0s

Direct link to video showing operation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyvSBYLBbtY There is a bonus feature revealed in the video. 

Parts are being printed (including a re-print of the messed up high resolution parts) so a complete physical prototype will be coming soon.

Printer prints but still needs to be calibrated. I did not expect this to be so involved and time consuming just to get it working.


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## Hagoth (Mar 12, 2015)

While I'm waiting for the next batch of parts... 

Here are the inside details to the manual clutch part. Yes, I'm revealing some inner secrets but they do little good for anyone without the rest of the mechanism. Some might find this interesting. So... enjoy. 










Here is the cut and paste link to the web site. http://hagoth.wix.com/the-brass-ball#!Manual Drive Cut-A-Way/zoom/cjex/image_1s5u 

The green clutch and purple hub parts are connected and slide back and forth on the yellow drive shaft through the blue back plate. The sliding clutch is shown half way between snapped in place and engaging the drive clutch. The yellow drive clutch does not move back and forth but rotates once the sliding clutch engages it. The red clutch guide housing is attached to the blue back plate and does not move. 

Maybe this will clear up any confusion as to how this is intended to work.


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## harristotle (Aug 7, 2008)

This awesome, if I evern ge around to building an X-wing I'll keep this in mind!


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

Well, that's clever!


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## Hagoth (Mar 12, 2015)

Sometimes it takes several tries to get good quality high resolution parts. So, what do you do... In the mean time a failed part did allow me to test out the hidden wire channels.

Here are the wires placed in the exposed channel on the bottom and passing through the part to the other side.

http://static.wixstatic.com/media/af5cca_cf27da32de424a76808c92ac27e8adf7.jpg_srb_p_1228_952_75_22_0.50_1.20_0.00_jpg_srb

Here is the wing root place holder hiding the wires while showing the ends passing out into the engine bay area and out the top of the wing mount.

http://static.wixstatic.com/media/af5cca_2d01cedb0d524c84be38ebcc63c48cc2.jpg_srb_p_875_952_75_22_0.50_1.20_0.00_jpg_srb

In spite of the delays I must say I'm quite excited about how this is working out with the hidden wire channels. 

Also, scaling up and modification of the design for the 1:35 scale Pro-Shop is progressing nicely.


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## Hagoth (Mar 12, 2015)

It's been a long time since I made progress on this project but I'm back with some major updates on the 1:35 scale implementation of this mechanism. 

I can now completely manufacture one of these units on my 3D printers. The 1:48 scale MPC unit that this thread started with is going through cost reduction efforts and revisions in hopes that I can print them completely on my machines as well.

Here are some images of the 1:35 scale progress. The design log is here: http://hagoth.wixsite.com/the-brass-ball/pm-1b

Design work


























Here are some pictures of the parts being manufactured on one of my printers.


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## Hagoth (Mar 12, 2015)

Test fitting into the model kit. A huge shout out to Millennium Falsehood for loaning me his kit to do fit and function testing on. I could not have done this kit without his generosity.


























...and the completed functioning unit...


















...installed in the model.


















Assembly and function test video coming soon...


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## Hagoth (Mar 12, 2015)

Latest build log update:









Here is the link to the 12 min assembly and installation video for the PM-1B mechanism for the Pro Shop 1:35 scale X-Wing.


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## Hagoth (Mar 12, 2015)

It's been a long time but here is my latest progress for the 1:35 Pro Shop version with folding wing root panels installed. I have a similar update to the current production version of the 1:48 MPC mechanism planned. I can now print everything on my printers.


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## David Alexander (Jan 11, 2018)

Hagoth said:


> It's been a long time but here is my latest progress for the 1:35 Pro Shop version with folding wing root panels installed. I have a similar update to the current production version of the 1:48 MPC mechanism planned. I can now print everything on my printers.


Can we order these sets?


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## Hagoth (Mar 12, 2015)

David Alexander said:


> Can we order these sets?


Hi David, yes, you can order them. I still need to update my website to properly include all the information. For now you can email me at jade-at-sfcn.org.

1:48 MPC mechanism is $36
1:35 Pro Shop mechanism is $65
1:35 Pro Shop mechanism with folding wing root panels will be $70 
...Plus shipping

The units come cleaned of support material and are assembled with micro wires installed for engine lights but are not glued together. Wing root panels are not glued in either. Lead time is generally a week or less to print one and ship.


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## Hagoth (Mar 12, 2015)

It's been awhile since I have posted here so I though I'd update everyone on the the progress of this project. I now have an internally motorized solution for the MPC X-Wing as well as a wing mechanism option for it with the folding wing root panels like what I did for the Pro-Shop 1:35 scale. The end of the video in the previous post showed the idea for it. Well, now it has been completed and it works.

Folding wing root panels in the MPC X-Wing









Here is the motor drive unit in the hull of the model. The wing mechanism fits on top of it.









Here is how the wires to the engine LED's pass through the mechanism and into the engine bay appearing as piping details.










You can see a video of the development options and the wings in action here:




.

Enjoy! And thanks for visiting this thread.


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

That looks amazing! Brilliant engineering and design work on the mechanism. Do you have an estimated cost?


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## Hagoth (Mar 12, 2015)

Trek Ace said:


> That looks amazing! Brilliant engineering and design work on the mechanism. Do you have an estimated cost?


Thanks for the compliment! It has been a fun project albeit long and drawn out. It will continue as I attempt to install a controller and power supply into the model itself.

As for the cost I posted the manual unit prices above in a previous post and the new PM-2A with the folding wing root panels will be $5 more than PM-1A for that feature. The motor rack assembly is going to be about $12-$15 I think and the motors are about $6-$7 apiece after shipping if you order them yourself. What is currently available in a motorized form depends on how much work people are willing to put in on their own to adapt power to and drive the unit.


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