# Converting from brushed to brushless



## bomberhoe

I have a losi strike and Im interested in finding out what all i need to do to convert from brushed to brushless, I know the ESC and motor, but does it bolt up the same do i have to purchase certain brands?


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## nutz4rc

Brushless will bolt right in, you will need a brushless ESC. You can use many brushless motor and ESC combinations. You can mix and match such as a Novak motor and Tekin ESC. Some brushless motors are sensorless (like Castle) and some have sensors (Novak, Tekin, Trinity). Some ESCs are sensorless or sensored and some only work with certain types of motors (such as Novak requires a sensor connection to the motor). 

Just be certain the combination you buy works together. I have some that are Novak motor and ESC, some that are Tekin motor and ESC, and also a Castle motor and ESC. All work fine. I have also run a Novak motor and TEkin ESC with no issues. 

IMO sensored motors and ESCs are smoother. It is mostly a matter of personal preference.


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## Al Schwarze

definitely go with sensored.. It is a much smoother response..
the hot combo right now is the castle creations mamba max pro speed control and a Novak ballistic motor.
Also i suggest investing in the link to connecting the speedo to your PC.
the mamba also offers a field card that is very nice for making adjustments to the speedo at the track.


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## swtour

bomberhoe,

the 13.5 wind brushless motor seems to be a pretty popular one in the SC trucks in a lot of areas. They are fairly quick, yet not too wild to be out of control.

Several companies offer good products - for instance *Novak Electronics* offers THIS PACKAGE - Havoc Pro SC / Ballistic 540 Brushless System  where you just pick your motor wind - and off you go. The motor/esc package is just under $200.00


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## butchman

*esc & motor*

I run a Castle SCT setup in both my short course Kyosho and my RC 4.1,great systemss.Castle systems for SCT are 4 pole motors,no sensor.Been running last summer and all winter with no problems.Also running Castle Max in dirt oval EDM car,no regrets.
Butchman


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## RC-Wings

*Brushless motor sensor?*

Hey Guys,

What is the purpose of the sensor? I fly RC planes and I don't recall ever seeing a brushless motor with a sensor used with RC planes.




Just wondering what is different about RC cars that makes their brushless motors require sensors...


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## KnR-Racing99

RC-Wings said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> What is the purpose of the sensor? I fly RC planes and I don't recall ever seeing a brushless motor with a sensor used with RC planes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just wondering what is different about RC cars that makes their brushless motors require sensors...


Actually, the motors don't absolutely require sensors, it just makes for smother operation at low throttle. There is a sensor in the motor that tells the esc the position of the rotor and also motor temps.
The on road guys like the sensored set ups but with us oval types, sensorless works just as good.
:thumbsup:


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## 4ThePinkRacing

mmm US OVAL TYPES lol .... i reace dirt oval and i perfer the sensored motors .. thank u lol ..

senored stops coging .. for the most part .. and in planes you dont have a stop and go persay with all the pull of a 4 pound car as you do with RC cars n trucks ..

makes for a better running setup in cars n trucks


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## RC-Wings

So the main reason surface vehicles need sensors is because they stop and go a lot? I guess they also change directions unlike airplane motors right?


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## RC-Wings

That make sense...

This page explaining brushless rc motors mentions that the third wire is giving electromagnetic feedback to the ESC. So I guess if the motor is not turning or turning very slowly that would be a problem right?


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## ta_man

RC-Wings said:


> So the main reason surface vehicles need sensors is because they stop and go a lot? I guess they also change directions unlike airplane motors right?


There are people who will take either side of the debate about whether car motors *need* sensors or not. If you are racing there generally isn't a lot of stop-and-go, nor changes in direction of motor rotation since reverse is not allowed in most races.



RC-Wings said:


> That make sense...
> 
> This page explaining brushless rc motors mentions that the third wire is giving electromagnetic feedback to the ESC. So I guess if the motor is not turning or turning very slowly that would be a problem right?


You would be surprised at how slow a motor can be turning and provide sufficient info for a good car ESC to run in sensorless mode. The Tekin RX-8, for example, does not run solely in sensored mode. Once the motor is turning fast enough for the ESC to read the back EMF it switches to sensorless mode. In 1/8th scales, this is about a slow crawl.


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## Al Schwarze

I have driven cars and trucks with sensored and non sensored motors, And I definitely prefer the feel of the sensored motor.
With the non sensored motor there is always a lag. you might not ever notice it if you never drove both on the track, but if you do you will most likely notice it too.
after running the sensored for awhile there is no way I could go back to non sensored.

the other great feature with a sensored motor is speed control timing boost which is unavailable with a non sensored motor.


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## 4ThePinkRacing

RC-Wings said:


> I guess they also change directions unlike airplane motors right?




i give up this board is off the wall .. enjoy


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## eri3f0g

my "feelings" of how they run put into words....

I've never driven the 4pole brushless which in theory should be twice as smooth as the 2 pole's that I've used.

Imagine that the sensors and non- sensors are rpm tachometers... When you drive the sensored motor/esc combo you have an ultra accurate rpm indicator to allow very smooth transitions in rpm. This is a very pronounced feeling the lower the rpm/lower the speed; ie: making 180 turns with off cambers that make you drive slow and cautious to make the suspension soak up what it needs.
Now, that non sensored motor feels like it's going from 1000-1500-2000 rpm's with no variation from 1k to 1500. ie: cogging... motor hits, drops, hits, drops, like it's running a cylinder light in a car. sputtering along which makes maintaining low rpm/low speed control more difficult and hence "not as smooth"

I'm trying to give a more dramatic example so you can "feel" the effect as I feel it. Now the less you need throttle control and precision at the lower rpm/speeds the less you will feel the difference.

Both at wide open throttle just rip snort through and really the difference isnt there... (yes to some it may be but for the sake of what's the sensor do wide open doesn't care)

Hope that paints an easier picture or gives you another perspective on what's the difference.

as far as brand, follow the boards a bit as well as this thread and you'll see there seems to be three to four main brands that hold everyones attention. Decide which fits your style and enjoy it.


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## ta_man

Al Schwarze said:


> I have driven cars and trucks with sensored and non sensored motors, And I definitely prefer the feel of the sensored motor.
> With the non sensored motor there is always a lag. you might not ever notice it if you never drove both on the track, but if you do you will most likely notice it too.
> after running the sensored for awhile there is no way I could go back to non sensored.
> 
> *the other great feature with a sensored motor is speed control timing boost which is unavailable with a non sensored motor.*


The Tekin RX-8 (speaking from experience) with 212 software does do speed controlled timing boost and runs the motor in sensorless mode at anything above a crawl. There is no reason that feature would be limited to sensored motors. It is a software issue.



eri3f0g said:


> Now, that non sensored motor feels like it's going from 1000-1500-2000 rpm's with no variation from 1k to 1500. ie: cogging... motor hits, drops, hits, drops, like it's running a cylinder light in a car. sputtering along which makes maintaining low rpm/low speed control more difficult and hence "not as smooth"


I'd conjecture that if that is the way the motor felt to you that you probably had a defective (or low quality) controller, because the high quality controllers like the Tekin and Castle don't behave that way when operating properly.

Everyone who has driven an RX-8/T-8 combo raves about their smoothness, yet the RX-8 only uses the sensors to start the motor turning and then switches to sensorless mode (at any speed past a slow crawl). It doesn't ever run the motor in sensored mode only. It always switches to sensorless as soon as possible.


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## eri3f0g

very possible taman, My experience with the non-sensored was an old castle. When I say old, I do mean OLD... probably 2005.. sheesh, way back when... lol

So, with that said please take a little bit of everyone's advice to make your decision. Thanks for the input taman!


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## jspcrepair

*Conversion to Brushless, Very Confused*

Hi, I am new here and found this forum (and thread) while searching for some
help on converting from Brushed to Brushless in my RC Heli.

I am very confused and have no idea how to proceed because of all of the
"Mixed" info I have read and all the choices out there.

Here is my issue...

I have a Double Horse 9104. -- Yeah, I know, it really isn't all it's made out to
be in the ads!
I bought it because of:
1) The Price -- because I can't afford much
2) The size because it looked nice being a 450 model of that size (27.5")
3) My first large scale Heli so I went with a 3 to 3.5 channel

I really like it because when it works, it is wicked fast and responds well (although
I did have to do a few minor mods to get it to fly forward better and stop the Left
Drift on take-off).

It is only a little over a month old and I have already had to replace the tail motor
and now, the main motor is giving out -- hardly any lift power at all and after about
3 to 4 minutes, it slowly comes down for a landing. When working (new) I was able
to fly it for around 12 to 15 minutes on the larger (spare) battery.

Both of my batteries are good - both are Li-ion 7.4v and the specs are:
#1) 1300mah 7.4v Li-ion "Stock"
#2) 1500mah 7.4v Li-ion (spare)

The batteries check out fine - Full charge shows 8.3v to 8.4v and after about 5 to 7
minutes, they drop to about 7.6v and after cool down, they go to about 7.8v to 8v.

I have also tested it by flying it until it comes down (about 4 min) then holding it in my
hand and running it for another 3 to 5 minutes and the batteries are still not low enough
to cause the lift-power issues.

So... what I want to do is convert to Brusless... the only problem is I am very confused
as to what I need because I have read about 6 or 7 different responses to this.

One said all I need are the motors and ESC's and another even said I would have to change
the Receiver, Transmitter, get an ESC and Signal converter... basically, they said I would
have to change out everything.

There is no sense in all that crap considering the thing only cost $60 to begin with but I don't
want to keep sinking money into it for motors every other week.
I even created a small aluminum heat sink for the main motor and drilled holes in the plastic
tail motor casing to releave some heat but brushed motors will still burn out fater than brushless.

So... can someone here please explain to me what I need "Exactly" -- it is my understanding
(from talking to a hobby shop owner) that all I would need is the motors and the ESC's for
both motors.
I am very confused because there are hundreds of motors and hundreds of ESC's and I have
no idea what to get or how to proceed and I cannot find anyone who has actually done this
conversion without also converting to 4channel and that is not what I want.

I simply would like to keep everything original - Except the Motors.

Thanks for any help anyone can give.


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## ta_man

jspcrepair said:


> Hi, I am new here and found this forum (and thread) while searching for some
> help on converting from Brushed to Brushless in my RC Heli.


This is an RC Car forum: "radio control vehicles"

While it is possible that someone here also has experince with motors for helicopters you are much more likely to get good info asking this question in one of the helicopter forums on rcgroups.com.


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## jspcrepair

ta_man said:


> This is an RC Car forum: "radio control vehicles"
> 
> While it is possible that someone here also has experince with motors for helicopters you are much more likely to get good info asking this question in one of the helicopter forums on rcgroups.com.


I'm sorry... I had no idea it was for cars alone considering I always considered
any mode of transport a "vehicle"... lol

I found this thread while searching for methods for brushed to brushless
conversion and figured I would give it a shot because there are some motors
that are used in various types of RC vehicles...

I would guess that a brushed to brushless conversion would be the same
regardless of the type of vehicle considering the same conversion of motor
and esc may be required.

I am simply asking this anywhere I find someone doing this type of conversion.
I have asked this in rcgroups as well and still haven't gotten much info that I
can use.

I recently (yesterday) talked to a local RC Hobby Shop and have found out
that I would be better off just staying with the setup I have and get another
(better) heli for better flying fun because it would take more than I care to
invest to change this thing over from brushed to brushless. To me, there is
no sense in putting over $100 into something that only cost $60 to begin
with.

Thanks anyway


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