# Working with plastic track



## Hotrodzz3 (Apr 5, 2011)

Let me start off by saying I'm new to HobbyTalk, joined a couple of weeks ago and have been going over all the track building threads. Although still a couple of months off, I'll be putting up a new track once I finish building the room for it. Table size is going to be 24 X 4 and I will be using Tyco track as I have tons of it. I'm still on the fence about putting in some elevations in it, but it will be 4 lanes. What I've been thinking about doing is instead of putting power taps every 5-10 ft. is to pull all the rails out of the track when I lay it down, That way I can smooth out all the joints as I want a track that's smooth as silk. Once finished with that I'd get some continuous rail and glue it back into the track, there by eliminating a lot of wiring under the table. What I'd like to know has anyone else tried this? and if so how well did it work?
Thanks for any ideas or suggestions you guys are willing to share.
Bob


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## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

Bob, continuous rail has many advantages and is endorsed by many. in addition, power taps are still recommended. at least one, half way around the total distance of the layout. amperage doesn't carry as well on steel rail as it does on copper wire and you will find the cars falling off (slowing down) when at that portion of the track where they are farthest from the power tap. if you can place at least one, preferably three, power taps around the layout, you will have more consistent speeds and satisfaction. have fun and lets us know how you are making out with your project!


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

edit:


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

I do not believe that a continuous rail track will resolve all your problems. To me, a continuous slot track would be smoother than a continuous rail track. Take a look at these four threads:

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=210466

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=268062

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=239446

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=205827

You'll notice on Tyco/Mattel track that there is a large flare at the end of the slot. If you go through the effort to re-rail plastic track, be sure these flares don't negate your efforts. You'll also nned to worry about height differences between pieces.

Thanks...Joe


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## Hotrodzz3 (Apr 5, 2011)

OK one thing I didn't realize is that I would still need multiple power taps with continous rails, and that might change my mind about changing the rails. I'll have to think a little more on that one and see how much expense is involved in changing it. I don't remember how many tracks I have with power taps but it's some where around a dozen maybe more. As far as some of the other issues I think I figured I'd have to work on that stuff. As far as uneven track joints what I did on my old track was to get a bunch of paint sticks and run them through a planer cutting them down to the proper thickness, then cut them into 1 inch long pcs. that when you connect the 2 pieces of track putting one piece under the locks will keep both pieces of track at the same height once you screw the ends of the tracks down. For the rail height issue what I did was to get a large mill file and cut it into about 4 inch long pcs and glued a couple of .012 shims on the ends and start filing away, It's time consuming and messy but do able. As far as the flaring at the ends of the slot my plan is to get rubber shims the thickness of the slot put them in and backfill the taper either with JB Weld or grind up some of the ultra rare 9" curves I have and mix them with a bottle of plastic cement until I have a workable putty to fill the gaps, once dry a little sandpaper should smooth out any imperfections that are left. Any one know who sells continous rail, seems to me I saw a while back that Carr/McMaster sold it.
Thanks again for any and all ideas and suggestions.
Bob


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## Hilltop Raceway (Feb 12, 2006)

I'd suggest routing a track, would be a heck of a lot easier than doing all of the mentioned, IMO...RM


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## Joe65SkylarkGS (Feb 15, 2010)

I'm thinking the same thing Hilltop.

Bob sounds like a lot of work. And in the end you will still have a cliucking track.

Seems the ONLY track that lays down smooth and can be made right and click free is the Old Model Motoring Lock and Joiner. A lot of guys swear by that old track and I have to say, recently I pulled out some of my old 35 years sitting in a box old LnJ track and it's amazingly flat still. After all them years in my mom's attic.

Let us know which way you go Bob.


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

Hotrodzz3 said:


> As far as the flaring at the ends of the slot my plan is to get rubber shims the thickness of the slot put them in and backfill the taper either with JB Weld or grind up some of the ultra rare 9" curves I have and mix them with a bottle of plastic cement until I have a workable putty to fill the gaps, once dry a little sandpaper should smooth out any imperfections that are left. Any one know who sells continous rail, seems to me I saw a while back that Carr/McMaster sold it.
> Thanks again for any and all ideas and suggestions.
> Bob


Bob,
First off, I agree with Hilltop. If you want a smooth track, routing is the way to go.

Having said that, if you want to get rail, I suggest doing a search within this forum for "stiching wire". It seems to be something that guys have had success with.

I am also interested in this method you think you are going to use to fill in the slot flares. If I understand correctly, you will put a rubber shim into the slot and then fill in the flare at the joint. My question would be - how are you going to get the filler to stick to the walls of the slot and not to the rubber shim?

Joe


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

I think Joe hit on a great term, "continuous slot," that is very important to consider. To this you could add "continuous surface" to the list account for the fact that a routed or large format modular track has fewer discontinuities in the surface to disturb the relationship between the car and the track/rails. Then there is the issue of "realistic turn radii" to account for the fact that routed tracks don't have to have tiny turn radiuses so the track pieces can fit in a small retail box. The net effect of these considerations adds up to a purpose built routed track (e.g. Buck, Brystal, TKO, Bowman, etc.) or large scale modular track (e.g., WizzTrackz, MaxTrack, etc.) being an entirely different beast than anything that started out life as a collection of race set boxed track pieces. 

I've raced on a professionally re-railed Tomy track and while the rails were sweet the rest of the track was still Tomy and had all of the expected issues and characteristics of a Tomy track, like noise. For home use, I would think twice, or many more times, about doing a re-rail unless you have a lot of time and dedication to getting it done with some degree of precision. I'm lazy and have little free time so I would either be making a phone call to one of the aforementioned builders and tapping into their expertise if I wanted to live the silky smooth groove ride or just go with the Tomy/Tyco track as-is and live with most of its warts and blemishes. If you want "smooth as silk" you are not going to get this with Tyco/Tomy even with many hours of attempting to coerce it to your will. 

On a 24 foot table I'd really want to see at least one big sweeper that lets you experience the speed that the length affords, but with Tyco maxed out at 15" turn radius that will be difficult. At least Tomy goes up to 18" - but routed and modular tracks you can open that way up and even incorporate a banked turn or two. If I was going to the expense of building a big room for a big track I would probably go the extra mile and lay down a custom track that delivered nearly instant gratification with minimal fuss. 

I don't think the under table wiring has to be a mass of spaghetti at all. You just have to be neat and use wire channels or screw tie wraps to keep everything tidy.


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

Hopefully I do not take this discussion into another direction, but given the choice, I would choose continuous slot over continuous rail any day. AFXToo also adds continuous racing surface into the equation, but of the three, I would still rank the slot as the most important factor in getting a smooth track.

As an experiment, try running a MicroScalextric car with braid pickups. This virtually eliminates the noise and bouncing produced by uneven rails. If you do this, you will see that you still get noise and banging around at the slot joints - maybe even the dreaded rejection (when a pin hits the joint at an angle that causes the car to deslot backwards). That noise and banging is caused almost exclusively by the slot joint.

I find on my Mattel track that there is a surface height difference between the rails of each lane. While the rest of the track piece (the area outside the rails and between the lanes) may be pretty even, that little space between the rails is usually pretty uneven. A low hanging body screw or a pickup shoe that hangs to one side could possibly be hitting the track surface in that area causing bouncing and deslots.

If I could install a continuous liner inside the slot of plastic track, the improvement would be unbelievable.

To me, the ultimate plastic track would come without rail and with the ability (and need) to install a slot liner. You would assemble the track and then install the rail and liner. The rail would be in a "T" shape so it just slides in; the liner could snap in or also be "T" shaped. Now you've got 2/3rds of a routed track with only the track surface not being continuous. The track would be made as it is today and would cost less because there's no rail installation at manufacturing time. It could even use the same joining system as today's Tyco and Tomy to make it compatible, but would be much smoother. It would also allow you to replace the rail and/or liner if they wear out. 

Thanks...Joe


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## Hotrodzz3 (Apr 5, 2011)

While I realize that a routed track would be the way to go, I'm not ready or able to spend the money that it would cost for that. At this point I have way more time than money to invest in this project. I'm retired so time isn't much of an issue and I already have a boat load of track that can be used for this project, so that's why I'm considering doing it this way. Besides I don't plan on taking this track apart once it's finished, if I move again I'll just leave it for the next person to deal with. 


Joe, I don't think that JB Weld or plastic will stick to rubber, I'll have to experiment with it a little and if it does there a couple of other methods to try. Here's a couple:
1 Try putting black electrical tape around the filler, not much sticks to it.
2 Spray something like PAM cooking oil on the rubber before inserting it in the track.
3 I have bought a product from locktite for repairing threads which is a form of epoxy and it comes with a release agent that you put on the bolt so when it dries the bolt can be removed and not damage the newly formed threads.


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

Hotrodzz3 said:


> While I realize that a routed track would be the way to go, I'm not ready or able to spend the money that it would cost for that. At this point I have way more time than money to invest in this project. I'm retired so time isn't much of an issue and I already have a boat load of track that can be used for this project, so that's why I'm considering doing it this way. Besides I don't plan on taking this track apart once it's finished, if I move again I'll just leave it for the next person to deal with.
> 
> 
> Joe, I don't think that JB Weld or plastic will stick to rubber, I'll have to experiment with it a little and if it does there a couple of other methods to try. Here's a couple:
> ...


Bob,
If you've got the time and desire, by all means try your hand at getting plastic track as smooth as possible.

In one of those threads I listed earlier, I believe there's some posts about my attempts to fill the slot with Plastic Wood. I never got really close to anything I was happy about. My experiments assumed that the track was not permanent, so I didn't want to glue pieces together.

One idea which was thrown around somewhere was the idea of putting plastic wrap around whatever you put in the slot. The theory being that whatever filler you use wouldn't stick to the plastic wrap. I guess even if it did, whatever plastic wrap remained in the slot would soon wear away. I never tried this.

While the slot is significantly wider at the flare (sometimes over 1/8"), it's amazing how small it looks when you fill the slot with something. And take a good look at the flares - they are not centered. If you do figure out a good method for filling those flares, I'll be the first one interested in how you did it.

Joe


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## Hotrodzz3 (Apr 5, 2011)

Joe
I will let you know how I make out filling the flares once I start working on them, the problem with using plastic wrap is getting it smooth, that's why I'm thinking tape might be the answer. Unfortunately I wont be doing much of anything for the next couple of weeks as I'm going in for a major surgery next week and that will keep me from doing much of anything for a quite a while. 
Thanks for all the ideas
Bob


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## slotcarman12078 (Oct 3, 2008)

*Track goop......*

Believe it or not, Aurora L&J track can be melted down into goop. I would assume that TYCO track is basically the same material. A bottle of Testors 3502, and a bunch of little pieces of 9" curve will determine that. Now think of this concept for a second:

Try on a 9" curve, to cut the whole slot off the track. Then cut it into sections about as long as the goofy joints of a pair of mated tracks. You would have to cut / mill the goofy section of slot out of the ends of each track, but you should be able to splice the patches in place. Goop does take a long time to cure... a solid 2-3 days for a full cure. If you're totally dedicated to trying this, it might be the answer. Granted, there's a lot of joints, and you'll have to fudge the connections between curves and straights. If you have the means to mill out the ends of the slots though, it might be worth a try. I hope you have a bunch of 15" straights!!! The less joints you have, the better.. :lol:


Another idea would be to use the goop directly in the joint. Lubricate with silicone spray a piece of styrene the same exact thickness of the slot groove. Activate the area to be patched with a few brushings of Testors 3502. Put some track goop in the slot, and then push in the styrene slot shim. The excess goop will rise up the sides. Leave the shim in there until cured. Hopefully, the silicone spray will keep the goop from adhering to the styrene. Trim the excess with an exacto before removing the shim. Any excess flashing can be filed once the goop fully cures.


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## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

Bob/hotrodzz, best wishes and vibes out to you for a successful surgery and quick easy recovery.


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## slotcarman12078 (Oct 3, 2008)

Best of luck for a smooth operation!!! Don't overdo it when you get out!!


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

edit.


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## Hotrodzz3 (Apr 5, 2011)

slotcarman12078 said:


> Believe it or not, Aurora L&J track can be melted down into goop. I would assume that TYCO track is basically the same material. A bottle of Testors 3502, and a bunch of little pieces of 9" curve will determine that..


I know that Tyco track will melt down into goop as I've done this in the past, the good part is it should match the track perfectly.


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## Hotrodzz3 (Apr 5, 2011)

alpink said:


> Bob/hotrodzz, best wishes and vibes out to you for a successful surgery and quick easy recovery.


Thank you
Bob


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## Hotrodzz3 (Apr 5, 2011)

slotcarman12078 said:


> Best of luck for a smooth operation!!! Don't overdo it when you get out!!


Thanks
Bob


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

Bob,
Good luck with the surgery. I look forward to your progress once you recover.

Joe


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## SDMedanic (Apr 21, 2011)

One of the best track builders out there specialized in plastic track. Besides continuous rail he reworked the slot and surface of the track with Epoxy Patch and bondo. His tracks were smooth as glass and fast. Epoxy patch in the slot is not hard to do. Fill the gaps at each track joint using a flat exacto blade. Use a flexible nail file when done to smooth the joint. Bondo for the top of the track. When done paint the surface. I suggest testing this whole thing out on a small track before tacking a 24' layout.


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

Read the warnings on the Bondo can. It's very nasty stuff to use in a closed environment.


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

Years ago, I raced on a track that was L&J reworked with continuous rail.
The owners and track regulars swore by it, and didn't want to race anywhere else.
I guess the best thing would be to pull the rails and fill the slot, then reroute the slot.
You may even consider filling the back side of the track to get rid of that hollow noise.
At that point, you may ask yourself: why not just route a whole new track?


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## SDMedanic (Apr 21, 2011)

AfxToo said:


> Read the warnings on the Bondo can. It's very nasty stuff to use in a closed environment.


Use lots of ventilation. Buy a good VOC quality dust mask and USE IT. 

When you think about it you can get a good quality routed track such as a TKO for about $1000-1200 (less table or wiring). For me it was a no brainer and a routed track is where I ended up. See my photos for shots of the new track. At the end of the day I was able to sell the Maxtrax track sections and defray most of the cost of the new TKO track. I lost a bit more when I sold the Aurora track and went to the Maxtrax but it still was a better deal than DIY conversion or whatever.

My Aurora based track was modified over time with epoxy at the track joints to clean up the slots and was very smooth. Never went to continuous rail. But there is a big difference between Aurora lock-jointer and AFX track and what is available nowadays. If I had to start from scratch and had a pile of sectional track I would use the sectional track to start with and develop a layout that could be used as a base for the routed track. I would then order the routed track and throw the other stuff away.


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## Hotrodzz3 (Apr 5, 2011)

Guys, 
The drywall work was completed today in the race room, I was hoping they would finish it before I go to the hospital in the morning and they didn't let me down. This leaves the ceiling, a few more lights and mouldings to finish up and it will be time to start on the track table. Not sure how long I'll be laid up but as soon as I'm able I'll be back down there workin on it. Here's a couple of pictures of the room.


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