# I almost bought the Scorpion model .....



## Steven Coffey (Jan 5, 2005)

I almost bought the Scorpion model .....I thought I would take one for the team and buy one just in the hopes that if it sells then maybe they will produce more Trek kits.Well I could not do it ....I can't bring myself to buy something I don't like .I looked at it and then walked away and came back looked at it again and it still did not look any cooler so I walked around some more and came back and it still sucked so I bought the Seaview instead!Nemesis is almost the worst Trek movie ever.If they where going to release something from it why not Enterpise E or one the Romulan ships?Marketing ....who gets it?Let's chose a ship from a movie that flopped....in fact lets get the least cool one from that movie and do it.............? :drunk:


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## Dr. Brad (Oct 5, 1999)

You're a better man than I am. I walked into my local hobby shop not intending to buy one at all. Then , the owner of the shop takes one off the shelf from behind the cash register, and tells me he was saving it for me. Sigh. What can I say? He's an okay guy, and my little girls really enjoy petting the dog who hangs out in the shop (I know that has nothing to do with the kit). I bought one. I can live with it. maybe I'll even like it. But I really hate those ridiculous stickers!

Brad.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

I may buy one. But it's the least "Trek-ish" design that could have been chosen.
It looks like it could have been on any Sci-Fi channel movie of the week. 
It has none of the attributes that have made Trek ships since TOS distinctive.

But I might want the 1/24th figures to go into my 1/24th scratchbuild TOS shuttlecraft.


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## capt Locknar (Dec 29, 2002)

Well just remember, the marketing guys know what we want more than we know what we want.

Go figure


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## tripdeer (Mar 7, 2004)

It's a neat enough model in it's own right, I'm just thinking that I'll try and reproduce the stickers in water-slide form... I just can't bring myself to put stickers on a model.

Dan


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

^^^No waterslide stickers? Pre-built figures?

There was a prebuilt made in China toy of that model in the same scale that included stickers and went clearance at Toys-R-Us about TWO YEARS AGO.

Sounds like the PL kit shows little difference other then 15 minutes worth of CA glueing and a hit of paint...

Who knows? They might even be using the same molds the toy did...


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## Lloyd Collins (Sep 25, 2004)

What is so bad about playing with toys? I have not seen one yet, but I will by it. Remember, it was seen on the screen, so it is canon......fodder.


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## F91 (Mar 3, 2002)

I got one. It's a decent kit. Pretty good engineering, a little soft on detail. Who mastered this kit anyway?


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

Lloyd Collins said:


> What is so bad about playing with toys? I have not seen one yet, but I will by it. Remember, it was seen on the screen, so it is canon......fodder.


Nothing at all wrong with toys...

Guess my main point was before this was even chosen as a kit subject by PL it was a bust as a toy and was making it's way into the clearance bins just like the worse movies often go straight to video...

Was more of a comment on the fact that almost an exact twin of the product already existed and was already a flop, yet PL's marketing geniuses chose it above other subjects that they could have expended resources on - such as a 1/350th TOS E.

God forbid a marketing genius choose an obvious success! That would be way too simple, profitable and pleasing to everyone's wants and needs...


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## razorwyre1 (Jan 28, 2004)

well if i remember correstly, tom lowe and dave metzner decided long before the films release based on its design. at that time they didnt know nemisis would be such a dog.

its a huge roll of the dice manufacturers and retailers take. im going to the halloween trade show this weekend. last year rubies costume company had paid universal what was no doubt buku bucks for the licence to van helsing and evern more buku to wb/dc for catwoman. i had my doubts about van helsing so i ordered very light, and the catwomans we got were returned to the manufacturer, so i got off easy. however a lot of retailers are sitting on that stock, and im sure rubies sees those licenses as money down the commode.

also, sometimes you cant tell how important or minor a ship or character will be within a property you are licensing, because when you do all this stuff the film is still being made, and all you get is a synopsis (at best). i sculpted some nightmare before christmas stuff years ago before the film came out. of the 5 items, we did 2 lock shock and barrels (the henchmen) and no oogie boogies (the villian), because of the photos disney had sent us there were a lot more shots of ls&b than oogie, so, since no one told us any differently, we thought they were more important characters than they turned out to be. 

as to the studios licensing division pushing the properties, thats their job. and the guys in the licensing marketing dept are usually as much in the dark as the licensees about this

so lets not rag on pl too badly for doing the scorpion. at the time the wheels were put into motion, there was probably no way for them to know.


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## BATBOB (Jul 14, 2003)

Use your imagination. I don't like the Pod Racer that I received as a gift, so I'm bashing it into a Hammerhead. My Scorpion will be basis for a Chig fighter. Life's too short to whine about what could have been.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

It's actually a _very good_ model, it's just not a subject many people want. But if you want a cockpit for a 1/24 scale kitbash space fighter, this is a good one to use.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

razorwyre1 said:


> well if i remember correstly, tom lowe and dave metzner decided long before the films release based on its design. at that time they didnt know nemisis would be such a dog.


Actually the movie had been long since released and the Scorpion toys on clearance when they announced they were going to try and get the designer of the movie prop to do the thing. Mr. Metzner swore up and down it was their decision and there was no studio presssure. Hard to believe, but that's what was claimed at the time.

There was still tons of time to change the subject selection, even after the sale of PL was announced. _*But no one seemed willing to change their minds and the subject selection order even after the writing was on the walls...*_

*Sort of a harry-carey marketing decision to fall on one's sword. To try and prove that previous decisions were correct even though subjects that might have changed the fate of the Trek line could have been substituted.*

*We were often told that they had to sell the kits we didn't want in order to be able to make the kits that we really wanted.*

*I fail to see how selections like Scorpion furthered that goal in the least.*
*At best it was a hard headed decision followed through with in order to prove the marketing guys knew what they were doing.*

*God forbid they use that opportunity instead to give us the kit we really wanted all along - a 1/350 TOS Enterprise... *


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## Edge (Sep 5, 2003)

BATBOB said:


> Use your imagination. I don't like the Pod Racer that I received as a gift, so I'm bashing it into a Hammerhead. My Scorpion will be basis for a Chig fighter. Life's too short to whine about what could have been.


True about the whining, but life's way too short to buy stuff you don't
want. In particular it is foolish to buy an item you don't want, hoping
that someday they *might* make something you will want.

Also, they have had two years to cancel the Scorpion, so they could
focus on a kit that people would want, instead of shipping a dog like
that to the retailers.

Those who don't learn from history, are doomed to repeat it.

Edge


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## Sparky (Feb 21, 2004)

I went to my local hobby store to take a look at the kit but just couldn't get interested at all. I do appreciate the effort to put out another Trek kit, but I can't even force myself to be even a little interested. Any of the following would make better kits than that Scorpion:

1. Dr. McCoys medical kit.
2. A Gorn
3. Apollo's Temple
4. A Horta
5. The M-5 multitronic unit
6. That communication thingy that Spock and Uhura stick in their
ear. 

(Sorry if I am sounding nutty, I haven't had my first cup of coffee this morning)


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## woozle (Oct 17, 2002)

My Four Year Old was beside himself when he found out that there was one of Daddy's Star Trek Modes that HE could build. That makes it priceless to me and I can't wait until he's up to putting the stickers on a 1/1000 Enterprise.


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## jbond (Aug 29, 2002)

Now wait a minute...what's all this stuff about a Scorpion TOY? I've never heard of anything like this; are we talking about a knock-off? What was the company that made this? Art Asylum sure didn't, nor did Playmates or Johnny Lightning. And how can this be the first time anyone mentioned it? Whether they like the design or not, people on this board (and numerous others) would still have been pouring over information about such a release; it's the nature of the beast. Where are images of this toy?


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## Steven Coffey (Jan 5, 2005)

woozle said:


> My Four Year Old was beside himself when he found out that there was one of Daddy's Star Trek Modes that HE could build. That makes it priceless to me and I can't wait until he's up to putting the stickers on a 1/1000 Enterprise.


I tried to get my daughter to get it ....she thought it was ugly and opted for the Love bug instead.Well Daddy is a VW guy as well as a Trekie!Either way she is ruined!


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## justinleighty (Jan 13, 2003)

Tom Lowe and Dave Metzner decided to do the Scorpion for, as Dave has stated at different times, two reasons. 1) Because they thought it was a cool design; and 2) Because it was a kit that could have figures.

The kit was designed by John Eaves (who, incidentally, designed the Scorpion for Nemesis). Part of the production delay, Eaves said sometime last year, was because he didn't realize how involved the process was.

I'm not a huge fan of the subject matter, but I picked up a couple (they're even cheaper than the 1/1000 kits at the local shop). The ship is pretty cool, the kit looks good, though I'm forcing myself to finish the ventral decals on my NX-01 (that's all that remains to finish the project) before I throw together a Scorpion. No, it's not a well-established Trek design, but it's kinda nifty.

Now the figures, well, a little repaint and Picard could be an Orc and Data an Uruk-Hai from LOTR ...


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

jbond said:


> Now wait a minute...what's all this stuff about a Scorpion TOY? I've never heard of anything like this; are we talking about a knock-off? What was the company that made this? Art Asylum sure didn't, nor did Playmates or Johnny Lightning. And how can this be the first time anyone mentioned it? Whether they like the design or not, people on this board (and numerous others) would still have been pouring over information about such a release; it's the nature of the beast. Where are images of this toy?


Do some search digging on the Polar Lights board.
It was on clearance at KBtoys at the time the Scorpion was announced. I posted a link to it at the time.


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## spe130 (Apr 13, 2004)

Other potential kits that could have included figures: TOS shuttlecraft, ST-V shuttlecraft, NX-01 shuttlepod, Delta Flyer, Runabout, etc.


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## chiangkaishecky (Oct 4, 2000)

jbond said:


> Now wait a minute...what's all this stuff about a Scorpion TOY? I've never heard of anything like this; are we talking about a knock-off? What was the company that made this? Art Asylum sure didn't, nor did Playmates or Johnny Lightning. And how can this be the first time anyone mentioned it? Whether they like the design or not, people on this board (and numerous others) would still have been pouring over information about such a release; it's the nature of the beast. Where are images of this toy?


I'll be honest, I don't really follow the action figure market anymore but even so I strongly doubt there was a Scorpion toy.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

chiangkaishecky said:


> I'll be honest, I don't really follow the action figure market anymore but even so I stongly doubt there was a Scorpion toy.


Actually there was.


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## chiangkaishecky (Oct 4, 2000)

Chuck_P.R. said:


> Actually there was.


Name the manufacturer if we're all wrong.
Don't tell me to look for a nearly two year old link posted by you.
Prove it.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

So I'm a liar then?
I've seen it with my own eyes.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

chiangkaishecky said:


> Name the manufacturer if we're all wrong.
> Don't tell me to look for a nearly two year old link posted by you.
> Prove it.


 Damn, man, call pistols or swords at dawn out behind the barn! Who cares?


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## chiangkaishecky (Oct 4, 2000)

Chuck_P.R. said:


> So I'm a liar then?


You could simply be mistaken without actually lying so no I ain't playin' your martyr game.


Chuck_P.R. said:


> I've seen it with my own eyes.


So you don't have any corroboration?


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## sbaxter at home (Feb 15, 2004)

Chuck, I went back and did the search you suggested.

Found this:

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showpost.php?p=555667&postcount=123

There was a second post later where you mentioned this again, after having seen a screen capture of the ship from the movie, saying it was what you saw. I read through the entire thread, and you provided no links to any such toy. Obviously you must have seen _something_, but I have no idea what it might have been. There _was_ a Hallmark ornament produced. A search of the fabled auction site, the name of which I cannot mention because it somehow becomes a link no matter what, turned up nothing. A Google search seems to have done the same, but it was harder to tell because there are so many pages that mention both Art Asylum's figures and the PL _Scorpion_ kit. 

So I won't call you a liar because I cannot imagine why you would lie about it, but I will suggest that perhaps you were wrong.

Qapla'

SSB


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## smithdl69 (Jan 28, 2005)

I agree that the Scorpion is not the ideal model from Star Trek or any Sci-Fi movie or series in general. My list is long with what I would like to see. Given that I still plan to buy several. I figure I will use it as base kit for conversions it has the benefit being cheap and has an interesting shape that could be turned into something neat given a little work and creativity. I don’t think I will ever figure out how model companies decide what to release. Exactly how many stock car models does the world need?


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## grantf (Feb 2, 2004)

John P said:


> Damn, man, call pistols or swords at dawn out behind the barn! Who cares?


yah, who the @#$% cares?


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## Barry Yoner (Mar 6, 1999)

I got one.

It appears to be a decent kit, as John P. says. Still not enamored with the figures, but I haven't taken them out of their little special packet yet.

Stickers? Feh, for instrumentation displays, is it that bad....? But I'm not interested in the ones that supposedly go on the wings. I only saw Nemesis once and don't remember seeing it then. Guess I'll have to look on the DVD I have.


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## Griffworks (Jun 24, 2002)

sbaxter at home said:


> *>SNIPPERINO!<*
> A search of the fabled auction site, the name of which I cannot mention because it somehow becomes a link no matter what, turned up nothing.
> *>SNIPPERONDO!<*


The reason it shows up as a link no matter what is 'cause Hankster has these boards set to show anything that contains eBay in it as a link. Info on this was posted at the top of each and every forum in the Announcements category about two months back, methinks it was. 

Just sayin' is all.


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## chiangkaishecky (Oct 4, 2000)

There's a closeup of the figures from a Japanese website
http://www.stfan.com/etc/scorpion2.jpg
Parts
http://www.stfan.com/etc/scorpion3s.jpg


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## Four Mad Men (Jan 26, 2004)

This adds nothing to the conversation but you can use e-Bay and not get a link.


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## F91 (Mar 3, 2002)

Esuck or evilbay also works great!


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

sbaxter at home said:


> Chuck, I went back and did the search you suggested.
> 
> Found this:
> 
> ...


Thanks for the vote of confidence.
I apologize if some people who demand proof of a flop of a product from two years ago I wasn't even interested in then. It was a Scorpion, because I remember at the time checking out ToysRUs' website too(didn't want to base my judgement on the Scorpion being a flop on KBToys as they were also closing some of their stores as well at the time) to see if ToysRUs were trying to dump them as well. Sure enough, their's were closeout as well, one reason it stuck with me was that everytime I went back to the TRUs website the monstrosity was always reloaded and listed on the side column of the first page I went to on their website.

It's also why I guessed that perhaps at the time the toy version maker had cut a deal to at least sell PL some of their figures. It was the only reason I could figure out a model kit company would include preassembled and prepainted figures, a move that didn't sit well with PL figure fans like John P, if I remember correctly. To me the only reason I could see them do that is if they were buying up surplus figures from the toy.

I don't remember being on LSD or anything, so I seriously doubt I invented such detailed points that were easily checked - *at the time -* for no reason whatsoever. Especially since I cared even less about the toy then the kit!!!


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## Steven Coffey (Jan 5, 2005)

I found a Scorpion ornament.......not a toy but close. http://www.billbam.com/scsttrneor0.html


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## Arronax (Apr 6, 1999)

Chuck_P.R. said:


> It's also why I guessed that perhaps at the time the toy version maker had cut a deal to at least sell PL some of their figures. It was the only reason I could figure out a model kit company would include preassembled and prepainted figures, a move that didn't sit well with PL figure fans like John P, if I remember correctly. To me the only reason I could see them do that is if they were buying up surplus figures from the toy.


They did the figures for the same reason that there included with the Jetson's car and the Scooby Doo van - they make the model kit more attractive to the non-model builder.

Jim


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## Griffworks (Jun 24, 2002)

Yeppers. Dave Metzner has mentioned that a number of times over in the PL forums here at HT.


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## PhilipMarlowe (Jan 23, 2004)

Arronax said:


> They did the figures for the same reason that there included with the Jetson's car and the Scooby Doo van - they make the model kit more attractive to the non-model builder.
> 
> Jim


Not to mention kids, my oldest loves his Astro, Shaggy,and Scooby figures. Astro was pre-painted but he got to 'help" paint Shaggy & Scoobs.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

My point was existing supply.
But it's good to know so much consideration for the non-modeler was put into the model subject selection process.


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## sbaxter at home (Feb 15, 2004)

Griffworks said:


> The reason it shows up as a link no matter what is 'cause Hankster has these boards set to show anything that contains <a href=http://www.dpbolvw.net/click-1606754-2202639 target=_blank>eBay</a><img src=http://www.awltovhc.com/image-1606754-2202639 width=1 height=1 border=0> in it as a link. Info on this was posted at the top of each and every forum in the Announcements category about two months back, methinks it was.


Oh, okay. I only edited it out because I thought it might be considered an act of evil to post such a link. If it is okay, I won't worry about it in the future.

Qapla'

SSB


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## Arronax (Apr 6, 1999)

Chuck_P.R. said:


> But it's good to know so much consideration for the non-modeler was put into the model subject selection process.


 This whole painted figure thing puts a different spin on the selection of the Scorpion as a kit subject. PL obviously wanted to to do a Trek subject that a) was current, b) was an interesting looking subject and c) an easy build for non-modelers. To meet the requirements of c), the kit needed to be one color (no critical painting), have stickers to add color and have prepainted figures to _really_ add color. 

And, frankly, there weren't any other Star Trek vehicles that fit the bill.

Jim


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## Dave Hussey (Nov 20, 1998)

What about a TOS Galileo Shuttle?

1/48 or 1/32 scale.
Accurate details.
Upper hull parts - white plastic.
Lower hull parts - grey plastic.
No painting required.
Pre-painted Kirk, Spock, McCoy and Scotty.
Stickers and Decals.
Planet diorama base in a third color.
Multi-generational, international product recognizability.
A kid and his Dad could build it at the kitchen table in about an hour or two and have an awesome looking model.

The result? Massive sales.

Is it too late to do this? No.

Huzz


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## Ignatz (Jun 20, 2000)

As much as I love the TOS shuttle, I think an RC Argo SUV would have more appeal to my pre-teen nephews.


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## chiangkaishecky (Oct 4, 2000)

Chuck_P.R. said:


> .. so I seriously doubt I invented such detailed points that were easily checked - *at the time -*


But as baxey pointed out, you didn't have a link to anything in your original posts from 2003.
Regarless, why can't it be checked *AT THIS TIME*!!!!???????
Phony Generations and First Contact scripts are still around.
AA still has their Nemesis page up
http://www.artasylum.com/minisites/startrek.html
Those were put out around the same time as your alleged toy and internet corroboration still exists.
Even the weird crap Applause made, such as the E-B in nexus, is readily returned by google
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=applause+enterprise+b+nexus&btnG=Search
That was put out almost a decade ago and there's still internet corroboration.
Jeff (jbond) Bond writes about toys, among other things, for a living so like he originally put forth where those images at?


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Dave Hussey said:


> What about a TOS Galileo Shuttle?
> 
> 
> 1/48 or 1/32 scale...


 Nuh-uh. 1/24. Over a foot long. In scale with the Scorpion. Perfect .


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## Dave Hussey (Nov 20, 1998)

Since John seconded my motion, I think it should be passed.


Huzz
Grand Poobah of the Loyal Order of Water Buffalos :jest: Do ya like my hat?


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## sbaxter at home (Feb 15, 2004)

Dave Hussey said:


> Grand Poobah of the Loyal Order of Water Buffalos :jest: Do ya like my hat?


Too much jingle; needs more jangle.

Qapla'

SSB


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## fjimi (Sep 29, 2004)

I believe ya Chuck -- but I can't believe how you got hopped on! 
I'll buy a few. It may be an Edsel, ya never know.


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## Arronax (Apr 6, 1999)

Dave Hussey said:


> What about a TOS Galileo Shuttle?


Huzz, while I can agree with you on a personal level, I don't see the massive sales (OK, I didn't see massive sales for the Scorpion either).

If you take our needs and wants out of the equation, the key selling factors you mentioned would be: 

All parts - white plastic
No painting required.
Pre-painted figures
Stickers
What wouldn't be important to the young modeler who doesn't care about this stuff are:

1/48 or 1/32 scale (figures would too small and couldn't be seen inside the shuttle anyway)
Accurate details (don't care - rather have something that shoots missiles or looks sleek and cool. And, face it, the Galileo is a white box and does not look cool)
Planet diorama base in a third color (why do I need a base when I'm zooming it around the room)
Multi-generational, international product recognizability (Star Trek? Wasn't that the old show with the bald-headed guy?)
All I'm saying is that while you and I think that the Scorpion was a bad choice, it made sense at the time to PL and it made sense from a marketing point of view when you are trying to sell it to a younger toy buying audience.

Jim


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## Dave Hussey (Nov 20, 1998)

Actually Jim, I showed a picture of the TOS Shuttle and a pic of the Scorpion to my buddy's 12 and 11 year old sons a while back when they were here and checking out all my model stuff. They are very "into" all the current techno stuff - Mac computers all over the place, IPods, yadda yadda. They have seen all the movies that the kids watch these days. 

Anyway, they instantly recognized the TOS Shuttle but had no idea what the Scorpion was even though they told me they have seen Nemesis. 

Nemesis came out a few years ago and tanked but TOS is aired on television stations around the world daily. IMHO, the TOS Shuttle would be recognized by far greater numbers of 8 to 13 year olds than the Scorpion.

Huzz


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## Griffworks (Jun 24, 2002)

Hey, if *I* recongize it, _anybody_ can!  

Seroiusly, tho, I think the TOS Galileo would be more recognizable to your average person then the Scorpion. Just my thinking, tho. It ain't backed up by any surveys or statistical data.


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## Brent Gair (Jun 26, 1999)

While I obviously have no interest in this kit specifically, I have to repeat my astonishment at PL's retarded marketing philosophy.

PL continues to believe in an absolutley mythical market. From snap dinos to sticker-bedecked Scorpions, they still try to make models for an imaginary customer base.

The young, up and coming wave of new modelers doesn't exist. Modeling is an adult hobby.

When we old guys started modeling, we didn't have much choice. When I built my first kit, there was no such thing as action figures. The only die-casts were thimble-size dinky toys. The only spaceship toys were molded in fluorescent polyethylene. If you wanted a representation of an actual ship, submarine, robot or figure...you built the kit. You learned how to glue, paint and apply decals. 

Kids today, for better or for worse, don't have that limitation. The choices are astounding. I'm still amazed when I walk into a TOYS R' US and see things that didn't exist in my wildest fantasies as a six year old boy. There are huge, 1/18 scale model airplanes with accurate paint jobs. There are figures from Sideshow and McFarlane that are more accurate than most kits and cost half as much. Big diecasts of everything from spaceships to cars are stacked from floor to ceiling. A SMALL number of kids will grow into modelers...but very few.

Now, whenever I make that assertion, some indignant parent will say, "Brent, you're dead wrong because I bought that snap kit for my little boy and he loved it...". Well, dad buying a kit for junior does not a modeler make. When I was a kid, I would have loved anything my dad gave me. Fact is, if you give that same kid a $10.00 bill and ask him to buy something for himself, it won't likely be a model. These snap kits have no appeal to children...they appeal to well-intentioned adults who think that these dumbed-down toy/kits appeal to children. This is not building a new generation of modelers. It is simply feeding a delusion.

With luck, PL will take a real bath on this kit. Then they might stop catering to that ficticious pool of pre-school modeler buyers that they imagine are haunting the aisles at the local Wal Mart. If they don't go broke first, they may actually come to understand that the people who buy kits are 40+ year old men who expect a certain standard of quality.


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## F91 (Mar 3, 2002)

There isn't a PL.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

chiangkaishecky said:


> But as baxey pointed out, you didn't have a link to anything in your original posts from 2003.
> Regarless, why can't it be checked *AT THIS TIME*!!!!???????
> Phony Generations and First Contact scripts are still around.
> AA still has their Nemesis page up
> http://www.artasylum.com/minisites/startrek.html


Interesting...

so since there are no Art Asylum pics of their 1701-A on their website and some of their discontinued Enterprise series pieces they *must certainly not exist either*.

I know what I saw. If you still want to continue calling me a liar feel free.

Your opinion has zero effect on my memory. 

It was one of the least recognized Trek vehicles from a movie that has been pretty thoroughly dismissed as being the most half-hearted effort ever put forth on a Trek feature film.

Even though Shatner's movie sucked, at least his didn't suck from lack of effort. The guy was just clueless as a director. At least he tried. 

Not only did the movie suck, it was the only one I remember(including Shatner's) where major actors from the movie berated Trek fans because they didn't find their lame-ass performances worth the price of admission. Certainly not the price of seeing again.

Like the Kazon Torpedo, I don't remember seeing a single Scorpion toy move from the shelf the last two times I went in before the local one near me closed. If the store manager had any sense he and any other manager who had one sent them back to the manufacturer who turned them out.

A crappy subject from Trek's least likable movie.
I think you've insulted me and I've wasted just about as much of my time as necessary responding to you.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

Brent Gair said:


> While I obviously have no interest in this kit specifically, I have to repeat my astonishment at PL's retarded marketing philosophy.
> 
> PL continues to believe in an absolutley mythical market. From snap dinos to sticker-bedecked Scorpions, they still try to make models for an imaginary customer base.
> 
> ...


That's what I didn't get with a lot of the kit selections(when there still was a PL around making them).

They supposedly couldn't give the adults the kits they wanted because of the kid market! As if there was one!!!

My father started me on modeling when I was about 8, and until I was 12 or so he bought stuff for me that he liked. Then I started doing Trek models around that time and he also did a few sci-fi stuff.

My point being that kids don't go out looking to buy kits in the first place!
Their parents get them for them, and these days probably have a hard time getting them interested. I remember giving a model kit to one of my ex-girlfriends' sons and he wanted to know what it did! "What, it's not radio controlled? It doesn't fly? I gotta put it together?!? What's up with that?"

We could have easily had tons of figure kits and more sci-fi vehicles being picked up a Walmart by parents who would have given them to their kids, who probably wouldn't spend more then an hour on it before going back to their video games and RC cars.

At least then a few adults would have also bought some for themselves.

But these kits that are half-toy, half-kits and don't even include decals?

I have to agree with you Brent, they are marketing gimmicks aimed at kids who rarely if ever make the buying decision in the first place.
As you said gimmicks aimed at a kid market that doesn't exist, displacing and ignoring what little market that does exist. 

Half-kits, half-toys just ends up pleasing no one.

So much for the "Kittoys." 

Don't get me started on the brilliant marketing idea they had to make care models and slap Spiderman stickers on them and call them "Spidermobiles."

*How 'bout just making Spiderman figures instead of trying to pretend you are a marketing genius and that you are fooling somebody by recyling a car kit and slapping a sticker on the darn thing?* 

I don't remember ever seeing Peter Parker driving around in a Spidermobile in the movies, comics or anywhere else. But maybe that's just a strange idea to me. 

When they were repopping the Aurora stuff they were great!
When they started off with the TOS E they were on the right track.
But then they started getting too smart for their own good and pushing Spider mobiles, Scorpions and other stuff they supposedly had to sell before they could make their 1/350th version of the most popular sci-fi kit ever!

Scopions and sticker-Spidermobiles. Wonder how they are selling?


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## Steven Coffey (Jan 5, 2005)

I have to agree with Chuck, kids these day don't care about models .They would rather play Xbox, then put something together !I have been trying to get daughter and my nephew into models my daughter seems to get into it more than the nephew .I think my daughter does it because it is something to do with Dad.I know that she will never be a builder like me but for now it is something we can share .She has built Herbie and A10 and a 1957 Chevy.I hate to say it but she like the stickers it is easier for her to put on.But she is only 9 years old.I am surprised our hobby still exists .I think most model builders are ages 30-55 and there are only a few of us at that .Go to your local hobby shop and look at the number of plastic kits compared to RC cars and model train sets.We live in a society that takes no pride in what we build with our own hands!So let us enjoy our hobby while we can .


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## chiangkaishecky (Oct 4, 2000)

Chuck_P.R. said:


> Interesting...
> 
> so since there are no Art Asylum pics of their 1701-A on their website and some of their discontinued Enterprise series pieces they *must certainly not exist either*.


I would say that there was no 1701-A put out by Art Asylum save for the fact that there's tons of other internet corroboration thusly
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=art+asylum+enterprise+ncc-1701a&btnG=Search
It's still for sale.



Chuck_P.R. said:


> I know what I saw. If you still want to continue calling me a liar feel free.


I'm not calling anyone a liar, merely pointing out statements are being made with zero verifiability.
I'm interested in Trek merchandise so I wanna know more but you can't seem to supply more info.



Chuck_P.R. said:


> I think you've insulted me ...


No I haven't and I'm pretty sure you can't prove that either.


Chuck_P.R. said:


> ... I've wasted just about as much of my time.


I have a nagging suspicion I'm gonna be disappointed here too.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

I agree with Brent completely here.

PL's charter was to recreate models that 40-ish men bought and loved when they were 12 (Aurora repops), and/or to create new models for the same nostalgia demographic (J2, C-57D, NCC-1701).

Current 12-year-olds generally don't have nostalgia for the 1960s and 70s.

Branching out is always good, I suppose. Still, I wish RC2's PL division* would stick to their original demographic.


*Whichever clerk trainee is stuck with the job at RC2 this week


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## TAY666 (Jan 8, 2000)

Just a word to the "kids don't build models" faction.

They are out there. Kids that want to build models. Will save their money to buy models. And you know how most got started? They were given kits like this. Easy to build and make look decent. After they get a taste, they move on to more complicated and challenging kits.
I know because my daughter is one. She's the one that saved her money so she could get a $50 resin bust. Took her months to save the money but she did. She also buys her own paints, glue, and brushes, because she wants to have her own.
And it's not just her. She has several friends who she has gotten hooked as well. She's even turns a little profit by playing the 'middle-man'. They give her money to get them kits, then she has me order them for her. 
So they are out there. Maybe not in huge numbers like when we were young, but the market is actually growing a bit from what I have seen.


Now as to the original topic.
I don't follow the trek stuff too much, but I seem to remember when PL announced they got the license that Paramount really wanted a kit done from the new movie. Maybe that is why the Scorpion was chosen.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Nope, Dave has repeatedly stated that Paramount never told PL what to do, and the Scorpion was his own choice.


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## Griffworks (Jun 24, 2002)

I've gotta back JohnP up on this. Dave Metzner said over in the PL board a couple different times that is was PL's decision to do the Scorpion. I don't mean to say this with any malice, but I don't at all think it was a wise choice. 

On the subject of kids and models, tho... I'll buy and help my kids build models occasionally. They get a lot of enjoyment out of it and my daughter (7) did most of the work on the PL Mystery Machine. The local hobby shop guy has had a couple different kids come in and buy models. No parents around and they usually buy some of the same models - cars and trucks, mostly. I think if we encourage kids to build models, they'll continue to buy models. To compete with video games and other "Instant Gratification Toys", we'll need to make out that model building is a challenge, tho.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

Griffworks said:


> I think if we encourage kids to build models, they'll continue to buy models. To compete with video games and other "Instant Gratification Toys", we'll need to make out that model building is a challenge, tho.


Good point! The few kids who will buy models will have bought them both because adults have introduced them to them previously; *AND because they LIKE a challenge.*

If they don't like a challenge they aren't going to buy them on their own. If the products are made in *too juvenile* a manner, such as only stickers and no decals in addition to being a snap kit, the kids themselves may very well see them as too juvenile. Something only a " *little kid* " would build.

Personal anecdotes aside, I still have serious doubts about the strength of the alleged kid's market. I think that virtually none of these kids picked modeling as a hobby without first being introduced by it as an adult. And I feel that a lot of the car and truck genre that is being way overworked has a lot more to do with it being simpler for them to produce these days. (Heck, once they pay the license fee to the automotive maker, they can probably get original 3-D source files and can probably often not even need a sculptor!  Just someone proficient in 3-D to layout how the parts will be sliced up and organized for molding!) . 

My point on the above paragraph being that the fact that there may or may not be a kid's market doesn't mean it makes sense to turn out car after car after car after car after car.

It certainly doesn't mean they should do things like recyle a car kit and put in a SpiderMan sticker, and call it a Spidermobile!!!  That kind of marketing is an insult to any child smart enough to want to build models. It reminds me of an old SNLive sketch in which Eddie Murphy played Mr. Rodgers, who was selling kids $40 dolls with heads of REAL cabbage stuck on spikes and telling the kids they were cabbage patch dolls!!!

When we see model kits that doesn't even have an *optional *set of waterslide decals I think they've gone too far. Again, as you said, if there is no challenge left to the kit the kids themselves could well consider them too juvenile!

I'm half expecting future kits aimed at younger modelers to have the disclaimer " *WARNING: SOME ASSEMBLY REQUIRED!!!* "


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Most of the clientel I see at Hiway Hobby seems to be guys my age. But once I was pleasantly surprised to see two boys of about 12 or 13 in the airplane aisle looking for specific WWII German aircraft. They sounded like they know the subject as well as I did at that age too. Refreshing.


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## user1127 (Jun 11, 2002)

*RE: Scorpion model (maybe not popular at all)*

I built one as a test.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Looks kinda like a snow plow.


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## beeblebrox (Jul 30, 2003)

You lighted it? :freak:


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## Griffworks (Jun 24, 2002)

Nice job on that, Ivan! How much did it end up going for on eBay, anyhow?


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

Yep! Subject on not, it's a great job!
Don't forget the watermark.


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## Four Mad Men (Jan 26, 2004)

Re-watched the end of Nemesis. OK, it was actually the first time. I've never made it that far into the movie before. It helped that I started at the end this time. Anyway, can't say that I care much for the selection but I guess I can understand it. Partly anyway.

I did just so happen to see the lit model on e-Bay. Nice.

And sorry to bring up the issue if it's dead but jeez I don't think Chuck deserved to be kicked like that.


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## TAY666 (Jan 8, 2000)

Chuck_P.R. said:


> Good point! The few kids who will buy models will have bought them both because adults have introduced them to them previously; *AND because they LIKE a challenge.*
> 
> If they don't like a challenge they aren't going to buy them on their own. If the products are made in *too juvenile* a manner, such as only stickers and no decals in addition to being a snap kit, the kids themselves may very well see them as too juvenile. Something only a " *little kid* " would build.


Ah, but that can sometimes be even more of a challenge. To take a kit like that and make it look good. Ever try to eliminate the seems on one of the 70's snap kits? That is a challenge.



> Personal anecdotes aside, I still have serious doubts about the strength of the alleged kid's market. I think that virtually none of these kids picked modeling as a hobby without first being introduced by it as an adult.


How many hobbies do kids have that they found completely on their own.
Heck, I was introduced to models by my parents back when I was a kid in the early 70's



> It certainly doesn't mean they should do things like recyle a car kit and put in a SpiderMan sticker, and call it a Spidermobile!!!  That kind of marketing is an insult to any child smart enough to want to build models.


Awe, c'mon. You mean you never got the Star Wars vans when they came out? I know I did. Sure they were pretty stupid, even thought so when I was buying it, but it had Star Wars on it! It had to be cool!


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## ChrisW (Jan 1, 1970)

TAY666 said:


> Awe, c'mon. You mean you never got the Star Wars vans when they came out? I know I did. Sure they were pretty stupid, even thought so when I was buying it, but it had Star Wars on it! It had to be cool!


Good point Tay. Many toys of our youth were rehashed stock items molded in a different color with new stickers on them.
By the way, the Snap Draggins were consistent strong sellers throughout Polar Lights production of them, and the Marvel Machines were very popular as well. 
As has been reported before, the number one best seller for Polar Lights, bar none, by a wide margin, was the Mystery Machine. Not taking away from any other kit or genre, just stating a fact as reported by Dave Metzner.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

^^^ I don't doubt that about the Mystery Machine Chris, especially considering it's product placement. But at least that was a model of something that appeared in a show. 

But a Spidermobile? C'mon guys! :lol:

I saw the Star Wars vans, but no, I didn't bite, even though I bought all the models and a lot of the toys that came out for about two years after the first movie. 

I used to buy sci-fi stuff when I was a kid to play and imagine. At the time not only didn't it make sense to me, but it seemed that tieing in a "otherworldly" product to a mundane thing like a van made here on Earth sort of accentuated the fact that Star Wars was just a movie. Seemed like sort of a buzz kill for the imagination, so I never bought one.

But I do understand the impulse you are talking about, TAY666 - so please don't misunderstand and think I'm making fun of you for your example of buying the vans. 

When I was a kid I passed up several opportunities to buy Batman and Trek lunch boxes that now I was I had. 

The reason I passed up on them as a kid is that back then, as with the vans, I bought sci-fi and fantasy stuff to spark my imagination, now I buy stuff more for nostalgia sake.


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## Steven Coffey (Jan 5, 2005)

The reason I passed up on them as a kid is that back then, as with the vans, I bought sci-fi and fantasy stuff to spark my imagination, now I buy stuff more for nostalgia sake.[/QUOTE]
I still buy to imagine !Don't tell me I am the only 30ish pushing very hard on 40ish guy that still takes down the Enterprise and does all the sound effects while attacking the klingon Battle cruiser...............I have to go, there are some guys with white suites here ......they want to take me to a new place to live ....they say it will be fun . :tongue:


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## sbaxter at home (Feb 15, 2004)

I spent a couple of hours yesterday working on the PL Klingon D7. I was well into that time before I realized I had been humming the Klingon theme from TMP for who knows how long! 

Qapla'

SSB


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## tripdeer (Mar 7, 2004)

Ha! I was the same when I was assembling the Bandai Refit. I was humming the slow TMP theme, building to a crescendo when the travel pod turns and the Enterprise is revealed to the viewer. Ha! We're such geeks... :lol:

Dan


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## user1127 (Jun 11, 2002)

Griffworks said:


> Nice job on that, Ivan! How much did it end up going for on eBay
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks :^) The auction has a modest RES base upon hours worked. It has one more day o run it course...I don't think it's a popular model sicne this is my second re-list. At least I know what to do better if I make another... 'If.'


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## user1127 (Jun 11, 2002)

Chuck_P.R. said:


> Yep! Subject on not, it's a great job!
> Don't forget the watermark.


Thanks!


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## TAY666 (Jan 8, 2000)

Chuck_P.R. said:


> But I do understand the impulse you are talking about, TAY666 - so please don't misunderstand and think I'm making fun of you for your example of buying the vans.


No misunderstanding.
I get what you're saying.
I'm actually glad that you seemed to have more options available to you.
Myself, I only ever saw 3 SW kits in person when I was a kid.
The Vader Tie-Fighter, a C-3PO, and one of the vans. I owned all 3. 
I only had a couple corner variety stores to shop at plus the occasional trip to Fishers Big Wheel, so I took what I could get.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

That reminds me of how lucky I was to grow up in a relatively big city at a time when kits were sold at so many more places then the are now.

I remember buying kits from K&B drugstore(defunct and taken over by Rite-Aid), Woolworths, TG&Y, Grant's, McCrory's Department store, Krauss, D.H. Holmes and Sears even sold them at one time, not to mention two local hobby shops(for a very short time three) that I could go to all in less then a hour's time by bus or even quicker by bicycle.

Damn I AM getting old...


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## Otto69 (Jan 2, 2004)

I've now seen the Scorpion kit at my local model club. The KIT is very well done. I mean it's almost so nice that I'd want to buy it despite being completely uninterested in the actual subject of the kit.

I'd be tempted to buy one just to paint it with a Dukes of Hazard General Lee paint scheme...but I'm a slow builder and a slower painter so I know that would never happen. Of course...it would be good practice for my airbrushing...


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## user1127 (Jun 11, 2002)

How about a Starsky and Hutch Gran Torino paint scheme?


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## TAY666 (Jan 8, 2000)

Sounds like good times Chuck.
We had a P&J Variety, that was only a few blocks away. They had everything under the sun. Got most of my stuff there. There was Betty J's on the other side of town. They had the good stuff. Monster Scenes, Pirates of the Caribbean. But I only got to go there a couple of times. 
We had a JCPenny's and still have a Western Auto. Neither had kits in the store though. But my mom used to order from the JCP catalog for xmas. That is how I got my Trex. 
Every now and then We went to Big Wheel waaaaay on the other side of town. And on really rare occasions (xmas, school shopping) we would go to the Hills a couple of towns over. They had the biggest toy department I ever saw up until I was about 14 and went to my first trip to 'the mall'.

I'll take the trade off though, and stick with the small town.
It's priceless to be able to let my kids be kids. Still remember the argument with my wife when we finally let my daughter (8 at the time) walk the 6 blocks to the local corner store on her own.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

Today I would have to agree with you. But back when I was a kid it wasn't so bad in the city. At least in most neighborhoods.

Those days, like everyplace I mentioned above except Sears(which was just bought out after over 100 years in business by the guy who controls K-Mart) are gone.


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## MangoMan (Jul 29, 1999)

I got a Scorpion because I figured it would be a fun, quick kit that I could finish before I have to go to a month long school. I was right. Nice little kit, even if it's not a hotly demanded subject. It's been a fun build, and isn't that the point?


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## F91 (Mar 3, 2002)

MM, That's the point for me, no hassles , just build it to have fun.


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## BATBOB (Jul 14, 2003)

I just like to have fun.


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