# Juper II size poll



## Old_McDonald

I'm curious what we'll ask for if Moebius can give us a new TOS Jupiter II in size. I personally think an 18 inch is best. Big enough for details and small enough to display on an average bookshelf.

What do you guys think?


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## Capt. Krik

18 inches is plenty big enough for me. I'm perfectly happy with the PL model but if Frank would decide to produce one a little more accurate and a little larger than the PL kit I would buy one.


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## Seaview

12" has been done. 16" has been done, but that interior was not for novice modellers. 24" is great, but far too large for most tabletops. To paraphrase Goldilocks, 18" is "just right".


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## bert model maker

I voted for the 24. I have a lunar 24 that leaves a lot to be desired so yes I want another one to replace this one. I also have a lunar 16.5 inch which is nice and a PL 12 inch which is just too small, so I say a 24 inch is best.


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## toyroy

Ron Gross figured the full-size Jupiter 2 is 60'. Starting from that:

-1/24 is 30" in diameter,
-1/30 is 24"
-1/32 is 22.5"
-1/35 is 20.57"
-1/40 is 18"
-1/43.6363 is 16.5"
-1/45 is 16"
-1/48 is 15"
-1/60 is 12"

Based on that, I would prefer 15", 22.5", or 30".


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## solex227

1/35 would be the only logical choice here being that there is so much stuff in this scale that would make the kit easier to super detail. from a builder perspective and a manufactures also.


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## gareee

What scale are the upcoming chariot and space pod?


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## Seaview

1/24 scale. Visit
http://www.moebiusmodels.com/
Before you say it, IMHO 30" in diameter is too big. 1/35 scale looks very nice at a manageable 20" diameter.


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## starseeker

I don't know where Ron Gross would have gotten those #s from. The full scale set, exterior connected to the interior, that we saw on every episode, would have made a saucer 48 feet in diameter. If the Jupiter 2 was 60 feet in diameter, and the upper deck was still centered inside it, then the viewports would have 6 more feet of sill, the main hatch would be 6 feet deeper, etc. The only thing you have to do to get the entire upper deck into the J2 is make the saucer a little deeper, not wider. If anyone is looking for a scale model of the Jupiter 2 in which an accurate scale upper deck fits into an accurate scale exterior, then the ship has to be 48'.


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## spindrift

I think Frank and others have stated a 24" diameter would be too difficult/expensive to produce..I agree. I don't see anything larger than 18" happening or even in the realm of possibility- Frank, Dave- comments?
Gary


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## starseeker

But if was in gores, like PL's brilliant C57?...


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## Moebius

I voted for Big Mac size....


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## gareee

LOL! Can we get it biggie sized?


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## Duck Fink

You can super size my order too!


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## toyroy

starseeker said:


> I don't know where Ron Gross would have gotten those #s from...


Gross used the height of hatchways to reconcile the hero hull to the interior/exterior set. You can read about it on CultTVMan's site:

http://www.culttvman2.com/dnn/Featu...cleID/15/articleType/ArticleView/Default.aspx


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## djnick66

More important to me than overall size is scale... I would hate to have a model made by size, so that in the end it works out to say, 1/63.9 scale. That would be totally worthless aside from having a model in a set size. Make it a real mainstream model scale like 1/32, 1/35, 1/24, etc. You even find toys in those scales nowdays.


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## John P

So a 48' saucer at 1/35 scale would be 16.45". Sounds just right to me.


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## Old_McDonald

That would work for me too. I used my options as "rough" measurements. I didn't think about scales.


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## starseeker

I don't understand that, what Ron Gross did, because I managed to fit a 1/24 interior built according to the pilot episode blueprints, only modifying the floor into a single level and changing the angle of the control panels to match the profile from a 2nd season blueprint into upper into a 24" hull. There isn't a massive window sill or any outside anomaly that I can think of, except the upper hull has to be a little taller in order to incorporate the straight walls at the back of the upper deck. And even as such, it seems to match virtually identically the photos of the Icons 4 footer profile that appeared a few years later. A not so good picture (all I can find so far???) when I lit it for the first time: http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?p=2404663#post2404663


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## toyroy

starseeker said:


> I don't understand that, what Ron Gross did, because I managed to fit a 1/24 interior built according to the pilot episode blueprints, only modifying the floor into a single level and changing the angle of the control panels to match the profile from a 2nd season blueprint into upper into a 24" hull. There isn't a massive window sill or any outside anomaly that I can think of, except the upper hull has to be a little taller in order to incorporate the straight walls at the back of the upper deck. And even as such, it seems to match virtually identically the photos of the Icons 4 footer profile that appeared a few years later. A not so good picture (all I can find so far???) when I lit it for the first time: http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?p=2404663#post2404663


That's a fine accomplishment, and the main thing is that _you're_ happy with your reconciliation. :thumbsup: 

For me, the most important thing is a model with the hull lines of certain of the special effects miniatures, such as the hero.


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## toyroy

John P said:


> So a 48' saucer at 1/35 scale would be 16.45". Sounds just right to me.


Do you want a model of the straight-sided interior/exterior set, or the full scale mockup?


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## Ignatz

I would go for a 1/35 scale model of the J2. Just the flight deck interior with the robot, space pod, chariot and landing gear and I think it would be a great kit! I would like the hull contours to match the large shooting miniature.


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## StarshipClass

I think 1/24th is the way to go since they've already got the pod and chariot model kits coming out in that scale.


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## starseeker

For me, the most important thing is a model with the hull lines of certain of the special effects miniatures, such as the hero.[/QUOTE]

Me, too. I used every photo I could get my hands on when I was making the plug. So I was really pleased when it came so close (as to be indistinguishable at least in photos) from the Icons J2, which was supposed to be an exact copy of one of the 4 footers. 
My big worry is that while the 4 foot Jupiter 2 has been completely measured and contoured by various owners and limited kit manufacturers, they're keeping all their information to themselves. The 18 foot Seaview and the 8 footer's nose have been thoroughly measured and contoured, and none of that has ever been shared by anyone, which is why the Moebius Seaview has such obvious shape problems. Who's to say Moebius will be able to get any info for an "accurate" Jupiter 2. And then there's the question of which hero. There were several different sizes and shapes of Seaview, and there was the series 4' Jupiter 2 we all love, but was the 12' miniature just a Gemini 12 or was it too converted to a Jupiter 2 for on-screen use?


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## Seaview

Since "we all love" the 4' hero miniature, that answers the question as to which exterior hull to make. 
Then add an accurate 2nd/3rd season flight deck (which can easily be modified into a 1st season version), and voila'! A nice Jupiter 2 to occupy the center of living room coffee tables throughout the modelling world.


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## bert model maker

The Jupiter 2 should look like the landing 4 ft. hero, WITH the details of the smaller Jupiter 2's such as hatch & portholes, etc. The 4 foot landing hero was shot from the front to show the simulated people standing inside it with the scrimm lit from behind to give the impression of an interior. Irwin Allen must have fiqured that viewers KNOW there is a hatch that really cannot be seen on the landing hero because of the angle it was filmed BUT it is suppossed to BE there ! so it IS there. I want a good, decent size Jupiter 2 after waiting more than 40 years and accepting Lunar Models larger versions along with their material defects and PL was great and accurate as far as I see BUT, too small & with an unwanted top seam that is necessary to view the detailed interior by removing the top. This is the reason I want a Larger Jupiter 2, To be able to see a detailed upper deck through the front viewport and maybe even through the porthole beside the main hatch ! size will make the difference. If anyone can make a GREAT jupiter 2 that "should " make EVERYONE happy, it needs to be done by Frank at MOEBIUS MODELS ! Just take a look at his seaview, Now imagine, a Jupiter 2 with the size increase& detail, quality, that the seaview was from previouse offerings !


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## toyroy

starseeker said:


> ...My big worry is that while the 4 foot Jupiter 2 has been completely measured and contoured by various owners and limited kit manufacturers, they're keeping all their information to themselves...Who's to say Moebius will be able to get any info for an "accurate" Jupiter 2. And then there's the question of which hero...there was the series 4' Jupiter 2 we all love, but was the 12' miniature just a Gemini 12 or was it too converted to a Jupiter 2 for on-screen use?


May be of interest:

http://www.culttvman2.com/dnn/Model...ofiles/tabid/413/AlbumID/424-212/Default.aspx

http://www.angelfire.com/mi/JohnnyrumsRecPages/arongrossarticle.html

Y3a graciously sent me angular measurements of his four-footer's lower hull; I'll try to find the drawing. It shows the hero hull as a bit shallower than Ron's version. 

The 10'(or12') miniature footage was never seen- either in the un-aired pilot, or the series.


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## Y3a

Actually, I have offered to allow Moebius and company to measure and inspect my hull for the project. I'm pushing for a far better landing gear system than has EVER been offered on a Jupiter 2 kit before. I'll lobby for an accurate rendition in whatever scale they decide on. I don't want anything for doing this except to watch the process to completion.



Here is that angles drawing. Its been so long I don't rememer what it represents...


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## John P

toyroy said:


> Do you want a model of the straight-sided interior/exterior set, or the full scale mockup?


I just want a model of the damn Jupiter 2! 
It should look like it did flying in space on the outside, and have an interior.

GOD, you people are worse than Trekkies!


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## gareee

John P, then why not just pick up the polar lights one? its not like a styrene kit doesn't exist at all.

I've got the PL J2, and unless a Moebius one really brought something new to the table, in size, or with a crew and robot, chariot, pod, whatever, I'm not sure I'd spring for another one. if I recall the old playing mantis diecast robot, chariot and pod were pretty close in scale as well to the J2 model they put out.

I have a love for the ships n show, but not sure how many of the same model I really want/need.

I DID preorder the new Moebius Pod n chariot (even though the fooking control panels weren't cast in clear for easy blacklighting.. GRRRRRRRR!!!!), and I'd spring for a seaview priced J2, but ONLY if it was significantly larger then the PL one, and came with more goodies. I don't really need a lower deck interior, just a complete upper deck, figures, robot, and whatever else they could think of to toss in there to increase the value of it to me.


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## Y3a

John, didn't you notice that the flying model had that special interior? YOU saw it close up in the episode "The Derelict" when, as they blasted the aliens, blasted a hole to make the doors open (what? no AIR???) and lifted off, rotated around so you could see the passengers inside and headed for the exit.



YOU want a KLUDGE. Polar Lights and Lunar Models made them. You have 3 choices: 12", 16" and 24" diameter.

THIS ONE IS FLYING TOO! Would you like this version of the flying J2?


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## Seaview

"It's only a model..."


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## toyroy

Y3a said:


> ...Here is that angles drawing. Its been so long I don't rememer what it represents...


My finished drawings are on the RPF, but I can't remember my logins, let alone find them! I _do_ have them, though; just need to double check them.


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## fxshop

*18"/24" J-2 Model Kit*

I think what ever Moebius Models comes out with It will be a outstanding! They have my support in any direction! 

Thanks!!!
Randy Neubert
VoodooFX
650-568-3400


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## toyroy

John P said:


> ...(The Jupiter 2 model) should look like it did flying in space on the outside, and have an interior...


John,

The reason I asked, is because you said "So a 48' saucer at 1/35 scale would be 16.45"." That only works, with the straight-sided hull. 

To give you what you want: "look like it did flying in space on the outside, and have an interior", you have to figure based on a 60' hull. So, if you want 1/35, it'll be 20.57". If you want 16.5", it'll be 1/43.6363.


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## toyroy

Polar Lights, Fox drawing, and actual four-footer lower hull profiles. Based on Ron Gross's Fox studio drawings:


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## Captain Han Solo

...This is the Model I want.....:thumbsup:


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## toyroy

beatlepaul said:


> ...This is the Model I want.....:thumbsup:


Me too. But not with red ground coloring.


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## Y3a

Thats the GEMINI 12!!!! No lower winder, or geer. Less detailed fusion kore too.


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## gareee

Ok, you guys are geekin out.. LOL!


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## toyroy

Y3a said:


> Thats the GEMINI 12!!!!...


I was talking about the launch pad and gantries. And BTW, the gantry towers should be red.


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## John P

"Geeking out" is such an inadequate phrase for this thread.


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## Y3a

C'mon JohnP...We learned this behavior from the Trekkies! LOL


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## starseeker

I think a lot of confusion about the size of the Jupiter 2 is coming from a misconception about the size of the interior. The straight sided exterior J2 set from the pilot and first season was in fact only 20 feet in radius. (You can't say diameter because the set was only a partial set; the top of the back control room walls wouldn't quite fit - that's why a 1/24 scale model has to be expanded to about 24"). 
This is from a blueprint of the Gemini 12 interior. The only real change from this plan and the first season Jupiter 2 was with the addition of the robot, so the floor could no longer be stepped as it was in the pilot. So the control panels and wall/ceiling beams, etc gained a 4" toe at the bottoms. The second season Jupiter 2 interior/exterior was redesigned with more steeply angled main control panels, higher window sills, and a new top of the set above the "ceiling". But the set stayed the same size - the circuitry panels and freezing tube walls etc all didn't expand in width. 
So as you can see, a 1/24 interior can fit into a 24" (48') exterior handily. But a 1/24 interior would be too small to interface with a 60' exterior properly, or as we saw it interface on the show. However, if you keep the Exact Shape of the filming miniatures, or as close as you can determine, and scale that shape to 48' (24") diameter, it all works perfectly. 
As for a 60' diameter Jupiter 2, I still have no idea where Ron Gross or anybody else came up with that figure. There is a blueprint of the changes made to convert the G12 exterior to the J2 exterior reproduced in the once widely-available LIS Technical Manual. A quick and dirty measurement based on the sizes stated in the blueprint of a 4' high window and a 7.5' radius flashing light ring from the blueprint shows both G12 and J2 miniatures to have an imagined outside diameter of approx. 49'. Of course, what's drawn on a blueprint isn't always exactly what ends up being built. There were differences in shapes between the blueprints of the Seaviews and the finished miniatures (indeed, there are quite noticeable differences between the shapes of the 17 and 8 foot Seaview miniatures) and the shape of the upper hull of the J2 miniature is subtly different from the blueprint shape, but we're talking subtle changes, not a wholesale revision on the model makers part. 
To fit an upper deck that was designed for a 20' R spaceship into a 30' R spaceship and make the hatches and viewports etc bridge what is supposed to be only a 5' R gap between the two just won't work. It's Tardis in reverse.
Edit: Attempted to include ruler as the plan is 1/2" = 1'.


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## starseeker2

And Starseeker is Starseeker2 now, as it was the only thging I could think of doing in order to post more attachments, such as this. For anyone who doesn't have the LIS Technical Manual, this is that exterior blueprint. (Funny, Starseeker2 doesn't spell any better than the other guy. Sigh.)
Edit: Oh, man, sorry about the crappy quality. But other than the 7'6" R flashing light unit, the only words worth reading (and almost the only ones that I can read even in the book) are that this is for a minimum 10' diameter miniature. Which must be the 12"er talked about on another LIS site, the writer having encountered it in person.
Another edit: If Ron Gross had access to this blueprint, which was probably drawn to a certain scale (copy too indistinct to read), he might have assumed that the big J2 miniature was built to that scale. The plan says "10' Minimum", the model builders obviously left to do what they wanted. The writer of the LIS site (if I remember correctly) said that he was climbing on an approx 12' J2 miniature. That 20% increase in scale is almost exactly the error in size between a 48 and 60 foot J2. Bet that's where the error originated, that the 12' was to a certain scale, rather than just to a certain shape.


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## Y3a

The 60 foot diameter was derived from the scale/height of the figures in the Hero.


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## toyroy

starseeker said:


> ...As for a 60' diameter Jupiter 2, I still have no idea where Ron Gross or anybody else came up with that figure...


Please read the links on messages #15 and #27.


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## gaetan

Hello Starseeker 1 &... 2.....

I like your argumentation and conclusions...... I checked my LIS books and pictures and I also arrive at the conclusion that a 24'' Jupiter 2 could very well conciliate a 1/24 interior first floor. As for the second floor, the Space Pod and Chariot....... The Jupiter 2 being a Tardis, we can always ''imagine'' it fit's in.... but..... it doesn't
The PL Jupiter 2 has always bugged me, the first floor being too spacious compared to the tv set and there is no place in the shape of that ship to have two levels....

Gaétan


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## toyroy

John P said:


> "Geeking out" is such an inadequate phrase for this thread.


Wow, I actually care enough and know enough to be a Jupiter 2 Geek? I'm honored.


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## toyroy

starseeker said:


> I think a lot of confusion about the size of the Jupiter 2 is coming from a misconception about the size of the interior. The straight sided exterior J2 set from the pilot and first season was in fact only 20 feet in radius. (You can't say diameter because the set was only a partial set; the top of the back control room walls wouldn't quite fit - that's why a 1/24 scale model has to be expanded to about 24").
> This is from a blueprint of the Gemini 12 interior. The only real change from this plan and the first season Jupiter 2 was with the addition of the robot, so the floor could no longer be stepped as it was in the pilot. So the control panels and wall/ceiling beams, etc gained a 4" toe at the bottoms. The second season Jupiter 2 interior/exterior was redesigned with more steeply angled main control panels, higher window sills, and a new top of the set above the "ceiling". But the set stayed the same size - the circuitry panels and freezing tube walls etc all didn't expand in width.
> .


No. Even if Fox didn't get around to revising the flight deck plans until later, the Jupiter 2 ALWAYS had an airlock, the addition of which increased the interior/exterior set diameter to 48'.


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## starseeker2

If you put the 1/24 scale interior into a 24" diameter J2, you have room for the airlock. Also I show the first and second season control panel profiles and my 1/24 exterior/interior window arrangement reconciliation.
The cross section is a verbatim tracing made from the above Fox blueprint, with the one exception of changing the floor to represent the 1st season floor. All dimensions are from Fox blueprints.


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## starseeker2

The windows also fit. The exterior views are of the dimensions of the full-size ship as well as of my re-creation that I based my 24" model on. If anyone can document where my model's plans differ from the 4' hero's shape, I'd love to see it. 
If you go to a 30" diameter model, that's 6" larger in diameter. That means that the airlock in the plan attached has to be 3" deeper. That means that the windows have to inset 3" deeper into the hull. Of course, it would work perfectly in a 30" model if you made the interior about 1/22 scale.
Edit: And before anyone says my airlock is too small, that there isn't enough headroom, I'm adding a photo of the airlock that shows no headroom. 
Also, a comparison of the 3 Jupiter 2 exteriors with the 3 upper decks. And a Gemini 12. This drawing was made in the 80s, before good reference material on the launch pad became available. The Jupiter 2s pilot blister is not fully extended.


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## starseeker2

1. I'm really sorry this has gotten so off topic. 
2. I wish I had a bigger scanner. I've got 100-150 11x14" pages of this stuff that I drew up years ago. 
3. The last attachment here is just a conceit of mine, trying to figure out the most compact Jupiter 2 that an upper and lower deck could actually fit into.
Okay, here are 6 or 8 drawings that show the entire 1st and second season upper deck can fit into a 24" Jupiter 2, plus the exterior drawings that I based the shape of my 24" model on. If anybody can show me one scale drawing based on the Fox upper deck plans of how this doesn't work, I'd love to see it. Or how you can fit the upper deck into a 60' saucer and make it work. Love to see that, too. 

Edit: (another attachment) You do run into serious problems if you try to fit the Jupiter 2's other upper deck rooms into place. That's why they're always modeled with the doors closed. And as for the lower deck, here's part of a couple sheets I'd started putting the upper deck in place on top of the lower deck.


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## bert model maker

Starseeker, did you make these drawings ? If so, they are OUTSTANDING !!! what I want is a large Jupiter 2 that is correct on the outside and an interior that will match that scale so it looks right. Do you have any pictures of your Jupiter 2 builds, I would like to see them, the Jupiter 2 is my favorite spaceship and I like to see what others have done with theirs, I have 3 and am looking for a 4th that will bring the best of the 3 I have into 1 model !
Bert


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## toyroy

Here's StarSeeker's hull in red, vs. the four-footer in blue. I scaled the drawings so that both were equidistant from the top of the bubble to the top of the fusion core(since StarSeeker's fusion core is taller than the four-footer's.)

The beltlines align perfectly, so you can easily see how much taller StarSeeker's upper hull sides are. Likewise, it's easy to see how much smaller in diameter his hull is. I wouldn't buy such a caricature of the Jupiter 2 in _any_ scale.

[IMG-LEFT]http://photos.hobbytalk.com/data/509/Jupiter_2_hull_comparison.jpg[/IMG-LEFT]


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## starseeker2

This is really, really, really stupid. When I built my model, I took pictures of the entire build, as well as photos of the interior all around, as once the interior was sealed, there would be no access to it again. I've searched everywhere I can think of and as if to mock me, the Universe has let me find two of the pictures. Where are the others??? Aarugh! They're here somewhere. I will find them. In the meantime, here are the two. When completed, the girders light (3 or 4 minibulbs in each) and each control panel light is a fibre optic. The flashing lights on the bottom are Christmas tree lights and I bundled the control panel lights randomly to the Christmas flashers. It's only a sequence of 8 and they flash at a regular interval so it isn't quite what the control panels lights should be, but it still looks cool. When I do find the other pictures, and I will!, I'll start a new thread so this poor thing can get back on topic, if that's possible.


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## starseeker2

Yes, as I said, you have to compromise to get an accurate 1/24 interior into a decent representation of the exterior of the Jupiter 2, as none of the miniatures was built with an interior in mind. You can make the compromises outside, you can make them inside, but you have to make them somewhere. Moebius, if they make a Jupiter 2, will have 3 choices of exterior based on blueprints, and he also possibly will have a choice of the lines of one of the actual miniatures, as I have no doubt whatsoever that the actual miniatures did not match the shape of any of the blueprints. If they choose to put an interior into the kit, how they try to fit that will help determine what the exterior is shaped like. Obviously, not everyone will be happy with whatever we're lucky enough to get.


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## ChrisW

Note to Frank W - after reading these posts, think very, very carefully before you consider going down this rocky path...


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## Sonett

Not to change the subject, but Starseeker, your work is fantastic. Do you have any more images of it to post? I would love to see more of this custom Jupiter 2! BTW I voted for the 24" version - I know it's a long shot, but why not?


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## ClubTepes

1/128 scale :freak:

Actually I'd prefer either 1/48 or 1/72.

Even though its smaller, 1/72 offers having it in scale to many other recent sci-fi Kits and also in scale to the C-57D.


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## starseeker2

Best shot I have of the 4' hero, from SciFi and Fantasy Models #29. Then superimposed on that, the outline of my Jupiter 2 interpretation. Because it's not a head on shot, the angle is off a bit. So my interpretation may be off, or it may be close. What can you do? Note the position of the viewport on the hero, where the hatch should be. I don't know if that's real or an artifact of camera/lens distortion. 
Yes, I will put up more of my J2 as soon as I find those pictures. AAARUGH! Hey, I know I have the negatives! Okay, I can get them reprinted. 
Meanwhile, enough of this, off to cut 1/128 plastic.


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## John P

ChrisW said:


> Note to Frank W - after reading these posts, think very, very carefully before you consider going down this rocky path...


Indeed! I can imagine this scaring him away from the whole idea. But consider, it's only a _couple _of extremely verbal, um, experts. The rest of the world will be very happy as long as the outside looks like it did flying or landing, and it has an acceptable interior.


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## kit-junkie

toyroy said:


> I wouldn't buy such a caricature of the Jupiter 2 in _any_ scale.
> 
> http://photos.hobbytalk.com/data/509/Jupiter_2_hull_comparison.jpg


Some of you take this stuff just a little too seriously. Again, we're nit picking replicas of filming miniatures of fictitious vehicles... Forgive me. I just don't "get it".


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## toyroy

John P said:


> ...The rest of the world will be very happy as long as the outside looks like it did flying or landing, and it has an acceptable interior.


AGREED.
Extremely verbal Roy.


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## toyroy

kit-junkie said:


> ...Forgive me. I just don't "get it".


For me, the hull lines are far and away _THE_ most important thing. Subtle differences mean a lot. StarSeeker's hull is simply _nowhere close_ to the Jupiter 2, to me.


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## Y3a

I agree with ToyRoy on this one.

It IS about the lines of the Jupiter 2. I would like the Jupiter 2 they produce to have the slightly more shallow bottom side as the Hero did when used to film The Derelict. This was before the pod and associated J2 mods were added. 

These differences are no different than the TOS-E and the changes to the nacelles and markings, to say nothing of the different size bridges and saucer profile and that aztecking map... These ARE important differences when being specific to the variations possible when modeling the TOS-E. 

For the Jupiter 2 fanatic (um...like me...)this stuff is important:
length of fusion core fins
presence of a hatch in bottom center of fusion core
details or lack of, on landing gear pads
rubber protector for swivel at bottom of gear ram and top of fotpad
No door on Hero, no door buttons etc either.
gap at front main window for sliding crash doors
slightly round-ish edge at widest point on saucer, not sharp edge.
underbelly details like chariot ramp, pod doors, gear, front lower window
number of working bulbs spinning in fusion core. 3 is my favorite, then 5.
number of figures visible in cockpit. 2 or 4?
weathering. The pyrothecnics really took it's toll on the Hero, and in leter episodes even when newly painted for the 3rd season, you could still make out damage along where door should be and several spots under.
correct offset on landing gear.
correct size and placement of upper hatches
what is INSIDE the bubble (Astrogator, or "Spinning "V" )
does the spin rate of the fusion core and bubble match?

and of course the HULL OUTLINES should be spot on. USING MEASUREMENTS FROM THE HERO....The bubble should be a 1/2 circle profile, with the bottom side of that bubble shape a little over 1/4 inch below the hull at that point. The area withing 2 inches all around the bubble is more flat, then curves downward toward the top edge of the upper side. that edge is sharp. lower hull angles are flat sided, not curved. This makes fabricating the gear easier on the Hero. Those angles are sharp too. ONLY the outer edge of the Jupiter 2 - where the upper and lower hulls join is a rounded edge. This may have been a way to avoid chips in the model(just guessing) 

The Hero seems to have been BRIGHT SILVER and then a thin clear flat applied over that.


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## John P

Y3a said:


> number of figures visible in cockpit. 2 or 4?


:freak:


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## starseeker2

Moving my attachments over to a new thread, as this is so off-topic... poor old Mac or whoever just wanted this to be a poll. 
Y3A, don't forget that the crash doors on the J2 were gold colored. And that the details were rotated on the 4' hero so that the round viewport was approx where the main hatch is on the interior set, and the main hatch on the hero would correspond roughly to the position of the General Alarm.


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## toyroy

John P said:


> :freak:


Go back and watch the entire series a few more times, John. You'll notice they NEVER had anything other than two or four figures in the hero cockpit. Always standing, too.


----------



## starseeker2

From SF & F Modeling #29


----------



## starseeker2

From SF &F Models 35:
Edit: Moved attachments to new thread:
http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?p=2420067#post2420067


----------



## starseeker2

Come on, guys, doesn't anyone have any other pictures, drawings, plans to share? The 2 color attachments posted are the only color photos in the mags.


----------



## John P

toyroy said:


> Go back and watch the entire series a few more times, John. You'll notice they NEVER had anything other than two or four figures in the hero cockpit. Always standing, too.


So. What.

If Moebius makes a model, it will be of "The Jupiter 2," not of the hero model, the crash set, the flying model, the landed model... it'll be of the "real" spaceship - the one that had _six _people and a robot aboard. And never once had an interior shot that explained what that assinine, lazy-effects-crew scrim was.


----------



## toyroy

starseeker2 said:


> ...doesn't anyone have any other pictures, drawings, plans to share?...


Thanks for sharing these great prop photos! I don't at all mind sharing what prop info I have, but this stuff really deserves a new thread.


----------



## Y3a

That assinine, lazy-effects-crewmember may have ALREADY realized the set wouldn't fit into the Hero hull without serious modifications. He was fired because he realized the concept of 'scale' which was not an issue in the Irwin Allen World..... or something like that....


hmmmmm.... mo pichers.....

Inside the 4 foot Hero during restoration...


----------



## starseeker2

Moved all my posts over to a new thread, as I feel really bady about how OT this one has become: http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?p=2420067#post2420067


----------



## starseeker2

Fantastic shots! Thanks!!


----------



## spindrift

Frank will do the J2 justice, don't worry..as long as it is 18" in diameter and has a nice upper deck and movable landing gear, based on the four footer ..LOL!Gary


----------



## toyroy

I'm only partly hip to all the Jupiter 2 model scales and sizes that have been made. Clearly, there is an ongoing demand for four footers. One was just snapped up on e-prey with a Buy-It-Now price of $2800+ shipping.

There have been many 9" and smaller models. Ron Gross built his 10.25" model to match the old Aurora Cyclops & chariot kit, which he figured to be 1/70 scale. Then, there's the following kits:

-Polar Lights, 12";
-Lunar Models, 16";
-LM, 16.5";
-LM and SciFi Metro, 24".

I wouldn't be surprised to hear of models made between 2' and 4', I just don't know of any offhand. But the two footers, like the four footers, sell well. 

A good 2 1/2' model, popularly priced, would certainly distinguish itself from the crowd. It would give a noticeably greater impression than two footers, while not requiring that much extra space- the difference in RADIUS being only 3". That size appeal would likely attract many who have four footers, or are shopping for one. A 2 1/2 footer can dominate a room, like a four footer can dominate a convention hall.

Plus, Moebius has already made the chariot and pod in that scale. I certainly won't be surprised to see them make a 20" tall cyclops, to match.


----------



## starseeker2

Just did a couple quick overlays of my compromise plan with a photo of a miniature and with a photo of one of Ron Gross' models. Working with photos is always an iffy thing at best. There's distortion from the camera lens, the camera angle, in the processing, in the repro, in the printing in a book, on and on. So these should be taken with a huge grain of salt. 
Remember, my Jupiter 2 interpretation is a bit taller than any blueprint of the thing because I wanted to include an upper deck with the straight to the ceiling walls behind the ladder and glide tube and include folding landing gear but not increase its diameter so as to too deepen the hatch or window sills. So she's a bit of a fatty.
But, my compromise J2 looks decent compared to what is the best edge on-photo of a miniature I've got. The biggest difference is the flashing light unit. The sizes are way off and I don't understand why, as that's one of the few things that there are solid dimensions for. Of course depending which version you're building. 
The other is with a Ron Gross' J2. Here I'm way off just about everything, except the bottom flashing light unit which looks pretty close. ??
But if I have to choose one to be less off on...
If someone does supply Moebius with an accurate profile of the J2, and if Moebius does make a model of the thing, no matter what size it is, I think we're all going to be surprised at its shape and proportions. If they choose to make allowances on the interior or exterior to make them fit...


----------



## Y3a

Like I said, MY 4 footer is available for those measurements.


----------



## toyroy

I'll bite. NO FAT JUPITER 2's !


----------



## starseeker2

Y3a said:


> Like I said, MY 4 footer is available for those measurements.


Is there one of those smiley faces that shows extreme hunger, salivation, and begging? 
Are there any #s you can post???


----------



## toyroy

starseeker2 said:


> Is there one of those smiley faces that shows extreme hunger, salivation, and begging?...


I must say, a profile drawn _ACCURATELY_ from your four-footer would be most welcome! 

:woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo:

Not to mention said profile's historicity and unquestionable *AUTHORITY*.


----------



## StarshipClass

toyroy said:


> I'll bite. NO FAT JUPITER 2's !


But-but-but, I *like* the fat & flat profile of the full scale exterior mock-up.


----------



## starseeker2

And I like the fat profile of mine, esp given that it's got an accurate 1/24 interior and working landing gear fit into it, and it's this far off, compared to this sfx capture from the Lost in Space Forever DVD.


----------



## toyroy

PerfesserCoffee said:


> ...I *like* the fat & flat profile of the full scale exterior mock-up...


The mock-up may be flat, but not fat. 

How's your plastic signboard J2 model coming along?


----------



## JohnGuard

there will never be a J2 to make everyone happy, will there?


----------



## gareee

Nope.. too many variations.. much like the seaview.


----------



## StarshipClass

toyroy said:


> The mock-up may be flat, but not fat.
> 
> How's your plastic signboard J2 model coming along?


Thought I was going to use the upper hull as a base for the flat sides but that won't work. Going to do the flat sides in sections on a frame now. Hadn't gotten past the drawing board as of yet.

Thanks for all the neat photos, diagrams, and screen caps, y'all!:thumbsup:


----------



## Y3a

toyroy said:


> I must say, a profile drawn _ACCURATELY_ from your four-footer would be most welcome! :thumbsup:
> Not to mention said profile's historicity and unquestionable AUTHORITY





Well It's right here in Sterling VA. 20164 

Any takers?

contact me thru pvt email thru Hobbytawk:thumbsup:


----------



## starseeker2

One last post: as this (another not so great early 90s) still-under-construction photo shows, a 24" Jupiter 2 isn't too big to find a nice place to display.


----------



## gareee

...if ya don't have a big flatscreen on the wall already! LOL!


----------



## toyroy

PerfesserCoffee said:


> Thought I was going to use the upper hull as a base for the flat sides but that won't work...


Actually, it does. You can think of the sides as part of a larger cone. The bottom of that cone is the radius X of your ship. The top of the hull sides are higher up the same cone, and, in fact, are the same radius X as your hull top piece.

As you see on my plans, I made a circular wall at that radius, so the top would have something to sit on, and the sides would have something to lean against- and the top and sides come together there.

BTW, I also used a drawing board, to assemble the hull halves.


----------



## StarshipClass

toyroy said:


> Actually, it does. You can think of the sides as part of a larger cone. The bottom of that cone is the radius X of your ship. The top of the hull sides are higher up the same cone, and, in fact, are the same radius X as your hull top piece.


Okay, I may have been thinking the wrong way on this but I was visualizing that the curvature of the original PL upper hull sides bulges outwards farther than the flat-sided walls would going _straight_ across from the mid-line circumference of the ship up to the edge of the roof circumference edge.

Therefore, if you glued the flat side pieces to the curved side of the upper hull, the roof piece would have to be a larger diameter and then the ship would not be accurate in profile.


----------



## starseeker2

Doctor: make an internal structure first, like cake boxes stacked on each other. I don't know the material you're working with, but if you can, sand the edges of the boxes for more glue area for the outer hull. You can do the sides of the upper hull in several pieces, backing the joins with shorter sections. The top you can do in one piece with one join and one backer. From the inside, run a bead of glue (thick ca if it adheres to your material, for extra strength. Save the PL upper hull for a G12. If you're doing an interior, you can cut out the internal supporting structure (the hat boxes)to close to the joins (but don't do it all the way). I made a 12" balsa overtopped with thin styrene sheet straight J2 this way and even hollowed it's surprisingly strong.


----------



## X15-A2

I have only skimmed this thread but I did want to make two corrections. The one sheet of studio drawings that Starseeker2 refers to in post 45 has a notation that reads "10' miniature", not "10' minimum". Also, the Jupiter II always had an airlock but the Gemini version did not. In fact, if you go back and watch the first season again you will see a sequence of "now you see it, now you don't" with the airlock. I think that it is most noticeable in the episode where the Robinsons leave Dr Smith behind in the ship because the planet that they've crashed on is freezing. They did not reshoot all those scenes so some shots still show the earlier interior, sans airlock.


----------



## toyroy

PerfesserCoffee said:


> Okay, I may have been thinking the wrong way on this but I was visualizing that the curvature of the original PL upper hull sides bulges outwards farther than the flat-sided walls would going _straight_ across from the mid-line circumference of the ship up to the edge of the roof circumference edge.
> 
> Therefore, if you glued the flat side pieces to the curved side of the upper hull, the roof piece would have to be a larger diameter and then the ship would not be accurate in profile.


I thought you were building a model of the mock-up, or interior/exterior set. In both cases, the hull top is straight, not curved, like the Polar Lights hull top.

And yes, the side and top angles both are different than the hero curved hull. Just one of those wierd design phenomena- you have to change things, to make them look more alike.


----------



## StarshipClass

toyroy said:


> I thought you were building a model of the mock-up, or interior/exterior set. In both cases, the hull top is straight, not curved, like the Polar Lights hull top.
> 
> And yes, the side and top angles both are different than the hero curved hull. Just one of those wierd design phenomena- you have to change things, to make them look more alike.


Ah! That's right! You've helped me yet again! A new roof it is, then!:thumbsup:


----------



## StarshipClass

starseeker2 said:


> Doctor: make an internal structure first, like cake boxes stacked on each other. I don't know the material you're working with, but if you can, sand the edges of the boxes for more glue area for the outer hull. You can do the sides of the upper hull in several pieces, backing the joins with shorter sections. The top you can do in one piece with one join and one backer. From the inside, run a bead of glue (thick ca if it adheres to your material, for extra strength. Save the PL upper hull for a G12. If you're doing an interior, you can cut out the internal supporting structure (the hat boxes)to close to the joins (but don't do it all the way). I made a 12" balsa overtopped with thin styrene sheet straight J2 this way and even hollowed it's surprisingly strong.


Excellent idea! Thanks!:thumbsup:


----------



## toyroy

Here's the Fox studio drawing of the mock-up for you:


----------



## StarshipClass

toyroy said:


> Here's the Fox studio drawing of the mock-up for you:


Fantastic! That's the first view of those plans that I can actually read! Thanks! :thumbsup:


----------



## toyroy

You're welcome. I had to reduce it to 30% of it's actual size, to make the 500kB limit. The original is available in the Files section of the Yahoo! LostinSpaceProps group.


----------



## Y3a

imagine working with MASONITE!! I also noticed that the gear is retractable! Steel pipe frame with a masonite skin.


----------



## Admiral Nelson

Banter and argue, then realize that if and when the model is done, ( I think it won't),it will be done the way Moebius wants it done. Also, no matter what, people in here will continue to gripe and moan about what's wrong with the kit. I love reading posts from people who have no money invested in a product but love to complain about what they "want" and what's "wrong" with a kit. To quote William Shatner.... "get a life".


----------



## woof359

the crash site mock up with its trailer skirting was confusing back when i was watching it origanly, an over lay of the crash site profile compared to the 4 footer in flight ? 2 completly differant saucers.


----------



## StarshipClass

Y3a said:


> imagine working with MASONITE!! I also noticed that the gear is retractable! Steel pipe frame with a masonite skin.


Yeah, I suppose that made it easier to use in the early crash site scenes but then, it would seem to be more economical for them to have had just made the legs removable instead.


----------



## woof359

*been 10 years?*



toyroy said:


> Here's the Fox studio drawing of the mock-up for you:



its been about 10 years since the movie sparked new intrest in LIS, and the computer age brought a lot of us together with questions. the prop may have been designed by Bob K but whagt about the grunts that acualy made it at the Fox studios, always wonder if any of them were on any of the many LIS internet lists/groups.


----------



## Seaview

The good Perfessor is correct; the landing gear WAS removable, as was the fusion core. One of the landing gear staircases was used as bleachers in a season 2 episode, and re-dressed for use on Dr. Marvello's rocket in another season 2 episode, while the fusion core was used in several season 1 episodes: in the Keeper's ship surrounding the rim of the giant spiders' cage, as an overhead light in Nexus's spacecraft, and I think it was used in A Change of Space as the base of the converted Seaview Diving Bell for the "light squared" spacecraft. The landing gear was also either retracted or removed completely for the initial scenes of the Jupiter 2 after it had first crashed on Priplanus in the third episode, including the scenes of the Robot taking his soil samples.
And speaking for myself, yes, I did notice the round sided in-flight version of the Jupiter 2 and the flat sided crash site Jupiter 2, which confused me as a 7-year old also. I also noticed the "riser" along the lower ridge of the upper hull in the campsite, which caused me no end of quizzical expressions.
However, today I'd be more than happy to have a well detailed flight deck inside EITHER a "hero" hull or a "flat-sided" hull; one I would build as an "in-flight" version, and the other would enable me to make a very nice "crash site" diorama, complete with opened hatch and airlock & ramp extended. Either version would be a winner. 
And a SFX scrim would be easy to scratch build if I desired that, also. :thumbsup:
I'm sure that you all remember those four sold resin kits that came from Lunar Models, too; the "hero", the "full sized mock-up", the "crashsite" and the Gemini XII? Even though those were small and lacked interiors, it was nice to have all four versions available for building and studying their differences.


----------



## StarshipClass

woof359 said:


> the crash site mock up with its trailer skirting was confusing back when i was watching it originally, an overlay of the crash site profile compared to the 4 footer in flight ? 2 completely different saucers.


I agree! I never did like that "ring" it was sitting on.


----------



## woof359

*lunar kits*



Seaview said:


> The good Perfessor is correct; the landing gear WAS removable, as was the fusion core. One of the landing gear staircases was used as bleachers in a season 2 episode, and re-dressed for use on Dr. Marvello's rocket in another season 2 episode, while the fusion core was used in several season 1 episodes: in the Keeper's ship surrounding the rim of the giant spiders' cage, as an overhead light in Nexus's spacecraft, and I think it was used in A Change of Space as the base of the converted Seaview Diving Bell for the "light squared" spacecraft. The landing gear was also either retracted or removed completely for the initial scenes of the Jupiter 2 after it had first crashed on Priplanus in the third episode, including the scenes of the Robot taking his soil samples.
> And speaking for myself, yes, I did notice the round sided in-flight version of the Jupiter 2 and the flat sided crash site Jupiter 2, which confused me as a 7-year old also. I also noticed the "riser" along the lower ridge of the upper hull in the campsite, which caused me no end of quizzical expressions.
> However, today I'd be more than happy to have a well detailed flight deck inside EITHER a "hero" hull or a "flat-sided" hull; one I would build as an "in-flight" version, and the other would enable me to make a very nice "crash site" diorama, complete with opened hatch and airlock & ramp extended. Either version would be a winner.
> And a SFX scrim would be easy to scratch build if I desired that, also. :thumbsup:
> I'm sure that you all remember those four sold resin kits that came from Lunar Models, too; the "hero", the "full sized mock-up", the "crashsite" and the Gemini XII? Even though those were small and lacked interiors, it was nice to have all four versions available for building and studying their differences.



I have alll the small lunar kits on a shelf so i can compare them from time to time.

its interesting that they took the time to reatached all 3 legs to the mock up before it was destroyed so what was left cood be used in the Apes second movie........sad


----------



## Seaview

Admiral Nelson said:


> Banter and argue, then realize that if and when the model is done, ( I think it won't),it will be done the way Moebius wants it done. Also, no matter what, people in here will continue to gripe and moan about what's wrong with the kit. I love reading posts from people who have no money invested in a product but love to complain about what they "want" and what's "wrong" with a kit. To quote William Shatner.... "get a life".


 
"You vill shoot Kapitan Craine...you vill shoot Kapitain Craine...you vill shoot Kapitain Craine..."


----------



## toyroy

woof359 said:


> ...whagt about the grunts that acualy made (the prop) at the Fox studios, always wonder if any of them were on any of the many LIS internet lists/groups.


It'd be fascinating to know about the design and construction of the heroes, esp. the working stuff.


----------



## toyroy

Y3a said:


> imagine working with MASONITE!! I also noticed that the gear is retractable! Steel pipe frame with a masonite skin.


Looks like the mock-up was designed to be suspended by cables near the dome. 

Also, I never noticed the "escape hatch" on the bottom of the mock-up's fusion core. I bet they used that, and the ladder inside, to actually get in the thing.


----------



## Jaruemalak

toyroy said:


> Looks like the mock-up was designed to be suspended by cables near the dome.
> 
> Also, I never noticed the "escape hatch" on the bottom of the mock-up's fusion core. I bet they used that, and the ladder inside, to actually get in the thing.


Well, there was at least one episode (the one with Jay-5... too lazy to look up the title) where the Jupiter 2 docked with another ship right there on the fusion core. I always imagined that there was a "lower docking hatch" there, because of that. 

AND... considering that the ship was supposed to fly to another planet, land and stay there, doesn't it seem kinda strange to put the MAIN entrance (the upper deck airlock) in the side of the ship? It would be eight to ten feet off the ground when landed on legs, and this would be true for both the Jupiter 2 and the Gemini 12. 

And that fusion core must be rather sturdy. In the "Junkyard of Space" episode, the Jupiter 2 is shown soft landing directly on the fusion core, without lowering the legs! NOW how do they get out?


----------



## JPhil123

Jaruemalak said:


> Well, there was at least one episode (the one with Jay-5... too lazy to look up the title) where the Jupiter 2 docked with another ship right there on the fusion core. I always imagined that there was a "lower docking hatch" there, because of that.
> 
> AND... considering that the ship was supposed to fly to another planet, land and stay there, doesn't it seem kinda strange to put the MAIN entrance (the upper deck airlock) in the side of the ship? It would be eight to ten feet off the ground when landed on legs, and this would be true for both the Jupiter 2 and the Gemini 12.
> 
> And that fusion core must be rather sturdy. In the "Junkyard of Space" episode, the Jupiter 2 is shown soft landing directly on the fusion core, without lowering the legs! NOW how do they get out?


Hello.
I think that this is what makes the Jupiter 2 and "Lost In Space" so interesting as topics of model and non-model discussions. If the Jupiter 2/Gemini XII was supposed to be a one-way transport craft, why have landing gear at all? It seems that landing gear could suggest that it was really an exploratory craft, not a one-way transport vehicle. A belly landing for the true Gemini XII seems more acceptable, because the lower region of the Gemini was more shallow and the main hatch would have been closer to the ground: the hatch ramp would allow the crew to go into and out of the control room deck.

Really, I think this is why I like the Gemini XII more than the Jupiter 2. The Gemini was only supposed to have one deck, not two (maybe the lower area would serve as a partial deck for storage). The Gemini is the more cannon version of the ship.

Jim


----------



## gareee

Well, the only people who remember the Gemini are sci fi geeks. If you showed pics of both to 90% of the public, they would all call it the Jupiter II.

2/3rds of the show was done in color, and even the black n white shows all had the lower living quarter deck as well, so geek out as much as you like, but after almost 40 years, people are only going to really remember what they saw on tv, and later in reruns.

...and hopefully they'll have forgotten the movie by now.. LOL!


----------



## StarshipClass

gareee said:


> Well, the only people who remember the Gemini are sci fi geeks.


Ooookay, so you're on the HobbyTalk bbs on a thread about the size of the Jupiter II--what's your point? 


:wave:


----------



## toyroy

Is it time for a Jupiter 2/Gemini 12 FAQ?


----------



## Dave Metzner

If you want a Jupiter 2 FAQ take it to the Sci Fi Board.
This is not the place for such a topic.

Thanks, Dave


----------



## X15-A2

The exterior J2 mock up was not used for the crash site set in the sound stage. What you see in the stage is the interior set mounted on platforms with a small portion of the underside built under the forward windows. The earthen ramp, rocks and bushes are being used to hide the fact that the lower hull is incomplete. The exterior mockup was relatively low-fidelity in quality (note the visible faceting of the hull sections) while the interior/exterior set was higher, having truly curved (in one direction) exterior plating.

The exterior set piece (mockup) had no room inside for interior detail, the space was taken up with structure to make it self-supporting. There was only a small platform for the actors to stand on behind the windows with a wall behind preventing a view of the interior structure (this area of the mockup actually matches the FX miniatures quite well). For those who want to see this better, the aft end of the ship seen in "Beneath the Planet of the Apes" is the entire J2 mockup laying on its side with the exterior formers and plating removed.


----------



## Seaview

I think you're right about the ten footer being the hero model of that one shot.


----------



## gojira61

X15-A2 said:


> For those who want to see this better, the aft end of the ship seen in "Beneath the Planet of the Apes" is the entire J2 mockup laying on its side with the exterior formers and plating removed.


Now that I know what I'm looking for you can clearly see the 3 landing gear of the full size mockup laying on their side being used as the end of the burned up wing frames on the crashed ship.

I always thought it was just a couple of the landing gear but know it makes sense when you look at it.

What a way for the full size mockup to have met it's end.


----------



## toyroy

Dave Metzner said:


> If you want a Jupiter 2 FAQ take it to the Sci Fi Board...


Which Sci Fi Board?


----------



## Seaview

I think he's referring to the "Science Fiction Modelling" section of HobbyTalk, because this isn't really a "Moebius" topic (yet :thumbsup: ).


----------



## woof359

*aft shot*

I have never seen that view of the crashed ape ship.....icuras II?

you can see the octagon framing, and some where i have a shot of the saucer sitting out side the paint shop from the free way. not sure whn it was taken tho.


----------



## Y3a

Seaview said:


> I think you're right about the ten footer being the hero model of that one shot.


The 10 foot Jupiter 2 was NEVER USED IN THE SERIES. Never. Too big and heavy. required very large boom to move it. It was intended to establish scale when the Cyclops came to the campsite and was to throw stones at IT too. Model was to rest on the ground. It was in the same scale as the Chariot seen with the Cyclops.


----------



## Jaruemalak

Y3a said:


> The 10 foot Jupiter 2 was NEVER USED IN THE SERIES. Never. Too big and heavy. required very large boom to move it. It was intended to establish scale when the Cyclops came to the campsite and was to throw stones at IT too. Model was to rest on the ground. It was in the same scale as the Chariot seen with the Cyclops.


I saw somewhere photographic "proof" that the ten footer was used for the crash sequence and that the four foot model was too small to work. I don't know if I buy that, because having worked with fiberglass for years, a ten foot Jupiter (well, Gemini 12) would have been heavy as hell, and I'm not all that sure a Lydecker rig could hold it. Still, I'm willing to listen to any and all arguments. Lord knows I've been wrong before. Once or twice, anyway...


----------



## toyroy

I think I've seen frames from the shot in question. It was of the actual "touchdown" which, of course, was never shown. 

It would make sense to use the most massive model manageable for such a shot. But from what I saw, I think they made the right choice by leaving it out.


----------



## Y3a

what stress is a steel cable under when holding that 300 pound 10 foot model? How long WAS the wire that the J2 slid down?


----------



## woof359

i have always heard that Irwin has a shed full of un shown film in the back yard that Kevin burns has access to.


----------



## Y3a

ib Think someone on this board talks to Kevin. Maybe HE can ask. I have heard that the 2nd unit stuff was very little though. Their may be clearer versions of the same stuff we've seen already, but nothing new or earth shattering.


----------



## Richard Baker

I did vote fo rthe 24" but after reading the rest of this thread I think 18" would be better. 

.


----------



## Trekkriffic

18" would be fine with me. Much bigger and I'd have trouble finding room for it.


----------



## Opus Penguin

I'd buy the 24" but 18" seems to be the right size for me. I sure hope Moebius plans to do it someday.


----------



## Seaview

18" is perfect, 24" is a little too large (but beautiful nevertheless).


----------



## StarshipClass

If they do a full one at 18", I hope they also do a partial "set" version at 1/24th scale


----------



## teslabe

My dream has always been, a very well done J-2 with a well detailed top floor, good for lighting and motorizing of the astrogator, like I did in my PL's J-2. I would hope it's not smaller then 18" and have a good seam for the top and bottom.


----------



## Dave Metzner

I'd say that there's no chance of a J2 kit that would be larger than 18 inches. So you might just as well scratch the 24 inch choice off your lists.

Dave


----------



## teslabe

I would buy three at 18" and I know Moebius would do a great job......


----------



## Y3a

Those that want a BIGGER Jupiter 2 should watch ebay and have about 1400 buck ready.. You can get a copy of the 4 foot filming hull and fusin core miniature that IS accurate, but you will have to scratch build all the working stuff you want to add on.


----------



## bert model maker

Y3a said:


> Those that want a BIGGER Jupiter 2 should watch ebay and have about 1400 buck ready.. You can get a copy of the 4 foot filming hull and fusin core miniature that IS accurate, but you will have to scratch build all the working stuff you want to add on.


How is your 4 footer coming along Y3a ? how much more have you got to go for completion ?


----------



## toyroy

Someone here at HobbyTalk said SciFi Metro was going to make a four-footer too.


----------



## gareee

PM Moderator said:


> I'd say that there's no chance of a J2 kit that would be larger than 18 inches. So you might just as well scratch the 24 inch choice off your lists.
> 
> Dave


Since there are a large number of people in the poll wanting a J2 over 18 inches, maybe a 20" version might be possible? Not sure what scale that might be, but it would appease the 24" crowd, as well as the 18" crowd, and woul;d be significantly larger enough then the PL J2 to make them cave and pick one up as well.

(I have a PL J2, and unless the Moebius one really "felt" a lot larger, I might not pick one up. (BTW, I'm also a proud owner of the seaview, pod, n Chariot.)

There could even be 3 "flavors" of the J2... a deluxe including everything, including landing gear and landing site accessories, a full interior version without landing gear but with the landing site accessories, and a basic landing gear only version, possibly with only the top flight deck interior, people and robot.

That might hit 3 pricepoints, for the die hard accuracy collectors, for the landing site fans, and for the budget modelers.

Also, I'd HOPE any lightable parts would be cast in clear, and rather then styrene windows, a plastic cut out window sheet would be included to avoid the seaview window issues. (and odds are that would also reduce kit costs somewhat)

I'd also still like to see it cast in silver plastic, so long as no rubber parts might be packaged in with them like the chariot tire "burn" issues.


----------



## Dave Metzner

Gentlemen please understand these basics: Tool size has a large impact on cost!
Cost directly impacts the price of finished goods. High price impacts sales volume.
Low sales volume impacts profitability.

The difference between an 18 inch model and a 20 inch model is not a linear increase in cost. Please remember that we're talking about two BIG chunks of steel needed to make a cavity and a core for each half of a hull for the model. Two halves of the hull = four big chunks of steel.....A 20 inch hull is probably a 2 ft square steel tool! Then there is the main deck inside the model - two more big chunks of steel!
The other factor is the size of injection press avaliable to shoot plastic into these big tools. Not every factory has equipment to shoot a 20-24 inch sized part....

The cost to ship a 20-24 inch kit is substantially greater than an 18 inch or 15 inch model! Shipping costs are becoming a larger and larger consideration as the cost of fuel continues at record high levels. The cost to ship a container from China is the same regardless of the number of kits in that container there will be allot more 15 inchers in a container than 20 inchers!

I'd say that 24 inches is out of the question , and that 20 inches is very very unlikely -18 inches would seem to be the very uppermost limit of practical tool size......And there is NO guarantee that an 18 inch model is going to work out as profitable to produce.

IF and I repeat - IF we do decide to produce a Jupiter 2 model, trust me, we'll do our best to produce the largest and most detailed model that we can. 
You all just need to understand that there are limits as to the size and number of features that are practical (and profitable) for us.

Dave


----------



## gareee

Oh, I understand.. only reason I replied, was to provide some additional marketing opportunities to perhaps increase sales volume on a more expensive larger version.

Look at all these guys doing "add on" kits... why not make some of that money yourselves, and potentially increase the market for models?

Had a figure set been made available for the chariot from Moebius, (or a deluxe bundled version) I would have just ordered it along with the chariot, and given Moebius more of my money.


----------



## royboyf

Dave, I agree with you wholeheartedly. Off the record, it's not like we're a congressional sub-committee, how long does it take to realize whether you've made a profit on your hard work? I do hope you guys will take on a new Jupiter 2 though, 18" would be fine with me. Thanks for your offerings so far!


----------



## toyroy

With respect to injection-mold tooling cost, etc., between the flying sub and the J2, the best opportunity for a larger-size kit was the flying sub. There were some lines on the hull which would have allowed a good multi-piece design. I didn't see as much support for a larger fs, though.

For a kit of a larger J2, which seems to have much greater demand, it might take some outside-the-box thinking. Perhaps, the hull could be made from a reverse-mold vacuform, or pressure mold process. With the edges factory finish-cut, you should be able to provide the quality customers want. This is the lower-tech kind of thing the Chinese sub-contract to Cambodia for. Moebius might be able to do it cheaply enough in a Mexican border facility, or even by American prison labor.

In order to further reduce shipping cost of these large-part kits, they could be sent direct from the factory to the consumer by ground freight. Participating hobby shops could have an assembled sample, and the kits would be sold on a special order basis.


----------



## Ductapeforever

I enjoy dreaming and wishful thinking like the rest of us but It seems we're flogging a dead horse here. A new J2 just isn't in the cards folks...call or fold!


----------



## Captain Han Solo

An 18" Jupiter 2 Model would be the Perfect Size.


I find it Funny some of the requests some make and or want.

To me some requests are made from guys who, either never built a model in their life or Built one 20 years ago(lol)!There also seems to be a lot of "Know it alls" who post, but don't show any of their work:freak:

But, again, If and when Moebius does the Jupiter Two, an 18" Replica would be Perfect:woohoo:

BP


----------



## Dave Metzner

I just read all the stuff about the actual size of Jupiter 2.......a few minor points.
My recollection is that:
The Jupiter 2 as envisioned by the Lost in space story line has THREE decks not just one.
The Jupiter 2 in the story carries the Space Pod, Chariot, all the assorted stuff that gets deployed on various planets in various episodes.
The Jupiter 2 carries supplies to sustain 6 people for an indefinite time.
The jupiter 2 hull contains a propulsion unit - three landing gear wells water, fuel, flush toilets and God only knows what other stuff I've forgotten to mention.

If you can make all this crap fit into the interior volume of a 60 ft or 48 ft diameter hull with the shapes seen in the TV series and assorted drawings then you a will be able to make a dandy living as a magician!
The Polar Lights Jupiter 2 was designed to take a few of these inconvenient details into account.....It certainly is a series of compromises to be sure....It's certainly got it's shortcomings but it does look like a Jupiter 2!
And it was affordable and buildable!
Dave


----------



## Carson Dyle

Ductapeforever said:


> A new J2 just isn't in the cards folks...


Huh.

Have you seen the cards?


----------



## gareee

The PL J2 IS great,, I just wish I had a bigger one. I didn't even bother with the lower deck.., or anything I can't see if I'm looking at it displayed.

How large was that J2 in the "wishing hat" episode??


----------



## spindrift

Dave-
To all concerned on the SIZE of a potential Jupiter II model:
We would be only so very lucky for Frank and Dave to go ahead and do a 18" kit- IF they decide it is profitable to do it even that large,. Knowing the very high quality standards of Moebius kits- we will have a wealth of accuracy and detail packed in the model even if it is 18"or less. You guys are NOT seeing the "big picture" that has to be considered by the company. Shipping/tooling/raw material costs are skyrocketing and I know that Frank is NOT in the business to give money away to satisfy those demanding a whopper 20" kit or bigger. Want to pay $150-200 for a 24" kit? (just a pure guess to illustrate my point). How many of you can cough up that for one? Maybe a handful but let's be realistic.
I have a good feeling we'll get a new tool Jupiter II. We have to be patient and not bug the crap out of Frank and Dave wanting a 24" bugger with two decks and this and that ...be reasonable. That is NOT going to happen- Dave just stated so. 
Frank KNOWS how bad everyone wants a new tool. We'll probably get an upper deck only loaded with beautiful detail and full landing gear wells. Anything else inside would not be accurate or even plausible! 
Gary:wave:


----------



## bert model maker

toyroy said:


> Someone here at HobbyTalk said SciFi Metro was going to make a four-footer too.


It was me. Charles at SFM/robot factory e mailed me with the jupiter 2 information last sept. 2007 stating the release of the NEW re-tooled jupiter 2 kits in both 2 ft & 4 ft. here is the email pasted here.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

The hulls on both the resin 4' and 2', the upper and lower hulls will have a lip that will make joining the two hull together easily. The ABS version you had to glue the rings onto each hull to make the lip.
I personally feel that the ABS material is stronger than the resin but the resin is so much easier to work with. The ABS material we used was very strong; probably over kill. I could stand on one of the ABS hulls and it would not break but there were builders that did not like to work with the ABS material. They still sold out and we feel that the resin will sell better.
I hope I answered your questions.

Let me know if you need anything else.


Charles





----- Original Message ----- 
> > > > > From: admin 
> > > > > To: Linda or Bert 
> > > > > Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2007 5:46 AM
> > > > > Subject: Re: product question
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > B9 Robot - 1/2 scale - available now. If you are serious about his 
> > > > > unit, there is a 3-4 month waiting list - price - $5,500.00 
> > > > > + s&h
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Spacepod - 1/6 scale - should be available by Christmas - tentative 
> > > > > price - $1,500.00
> > > > >
> > > > > Spacepod - 1/12 scale - no information yet 
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Action Figures 1/6 scale - the 2nd wave is in pre-production with the 
> > > > > new factory. When more info. is available,
> > > > > will e-mail updates.
> > > > >
> > > > > Jupiter 2 Lighting Kits - available now.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Jupiter 2 - 2' kit - ABS is sold out. Resin soon to be released.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Jupiter 2 - 2' replica - no information as of yet.
> > > > >
> > > > > 
> > > > > Jupiter 2 - platinum collector's edition - late 2005 - no information
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Jupiter 2 - 4' replica - scheduled for November 2007 - tentative price 
> > > > > - $1,500.00
> > > > >
> > > > > Jupiter 2 - 18" replica - no information 
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Chariot - 1/6 scale - mid to late 2008
> > > > >
> > > > > Chariot - 1/12 scale no information 
> > > > >
> > > > > 1/1 Scale Prop Replicas - we are working on a few now.
> > > > >
> > > > > 40th Anniversary Lost in Space Laser Pistol - available now -
> > > > >
> > > > > 2nd Season Dr. Zachary bust - there is a waiting list for this piece.
> > > > > It is casted and hand painted in the USA.
> > > > > Again, if you are serious about this 
> > > > > piece, you want to place an order on our 
> > > > > site for next available one.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Let me know if you need anything else.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Charles
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >


----------



## teslabe

Hi Charles,
I see all the dates are a year old, is there any updates you can post of the prices and availability? Thank you.


----------



## bert model maker

That was not from charles, it was from me, pasting an e mail from charles concerning jupiter 2 kits that WERE suppossed to be released a year ago. Their website has not been updated for a couple of years and e mails to them go unanswered .


----------



## Seaview

model maker said:


> That was not from charles, it was from me, pasting an e mail from charles concerning jupiter 2 kits that WERE suppossed to be released a year ago. Their website has not been updated for a couple of years and e mails to them go unanswered .


 
Hmmmmmmmmm...that makes me wonder if their licensing agreement with Synthasis Entertainment ran out.


----------



## rondenning

I have been in contact with the folks at Sci-Fi Metropolis about some work in the last month.
The owner had gotten seriously injured, spent a considerable amount of time in the hospital, required some surgery/s I believe, etc.. 
BUT, the good news is they have renewed thier Licences and are trying to catch up with all thier projects, but are still about 18 months behind, and are covered up!
They will be coming out with both 2 foot, and 4 foot Jupiter 2 models (supposed to be out by Christmas this year), The Pod(end of this year spring of next), the Chariot(next year or spring of following year), and are still working to get wave 2 of the 1/6 scale figures out ASAP! As well, they are finishing and shipping the 1/2 scale Robot B9's as fast as they can! They have several other Lost in Space products coming out as well, but I can't remember the specifics on them, and so don't want to give any erronious info!!
Keep watching for their stuff, and no, I don't know what their prices are gonna be yet.:freak:
Ron:devil:


----------



## John P

toyroy said:


> With respect to injection-mold tooling cost, etc., between the flying sub and the J2, the best opportunity for a larger-size kit was the flying sub. There were some lines on the hull which would have allowed a good multi-piece design. I didn't see as much support for a larger fs, though.
> 
> For a kit of a larger J2, which seems to have much greater demand, it might take some outside-the-box thinking. Perhaps, the hull could be made from a reverse-mold vacuform, or pressure mold process. With the edges factory finish-cut, you should be able to provide the quality customers want. This is the lower-tech kind of thing the Chinese sub-contract to Cambodia for. Moebius might be able to do it cheaply enough in a Mexican border facility, or even by American prison labor.
> 
> In order to further reduce shipping cost of these large-part kits, they could be sent direct from the factory to the consumer by ground freight. Participating hobby shops could have an assembled sample, and the kits would be sold on a special order basis.


Or, provide a kit with all parts except the exterior hull, but with instructions included for how to make your own out of pulped and pressed maple leaves, and require the purchaser to pick up the kit personally at the factory in China.

I think this is certainly the least expensive alternative.


----------



## Opus Penguin

spindrift said:


> Dave-
> To all concerned on the SIZE of a potential Jupiter II model:
> We would be only so very lucky for Frank and Dave to go ahead and do a 18" kit- IF they decide it is profitable to do it even that large,. Knowing the very high quality standards of Moebius kits- we will have a wealth of accuracy and detail packed in the model even if it is 18"or less. You guys are NOT seeing the "big picture" that has to be considered by the company. Shipping/tooling/raw material costs are skyrocketing and I know that Frank is NOT in the business to give money away to satisfy those demanding a whopper 20" kit or bigger. Want to pay $150-200 for a 24" kit? (just a pure guess to illustrate my point). How many of you can cough up that for one? Maybe a handful but let's be realistic.
> I have a good feeling we'll get a new tool Jupiter II. We have to be patient and not bug the crap out of Frank and Dave wanting a 24" bugger with two decks and this and that ...be reasonable. That is NOT going to happen- Dave just stated so.
> Frank KNOWS how bad everyone wants a new tool. We'll probably get an upper deck only loaded with beautiful detail and full landing gear wells. Anything else inside would not be accurate or even plausible!
> Gary:wave:


Much agreed Gary! I would like to see an 18" version and would be willing to pay a little over $100 for it, but couldn't afford much more. Even if they only relase a 12" version I would be happy. I would just like to see the kit released if possible. It would be great if Moebius could get the Polar Lights version and maybe update it a bit. I would be happy with that. I just hope it can be done in any format sometime in the future.


----------



## terryr

The cheapest way is to make it out of your imagination.

What's a juper II anyway?


----------



## toyroy

John P said:


> Or, provide a kit with all parts except the exterior hull, but with instructions included for how to make your own out of pulped and pressed maple leaves, and require the purchaser to pick up the kit personally at the factory in China.
> 
> I think this is certainly the least expensive alternative.


I hadn't thought about that.


----------



## toyroy

terryr said:


> The cheapest way is to make it out of your imagination...


Wouldn't it be less expensive not to think of it at all?


----------



## John P

I'm tryin'!


----------



## fortress

*Moebius and the ultimate J2*

1998 was trully a historic year for modelers!

It has been more than 30 years before an injection molded
modeler maker had produced an all-plastic Jupiter 2, but
when Polar Lights decided to make this their first original
mass market kit, they came up with a real winner.

Although the kit had minor flaws it still to this day is
a must have for any serious collector.Fast forward 10
years we are now seeing a new company leading the 
charge to take on IA subjects, Moebius Models has now
produced excellent versions of the LIS Chariot, Space Pod,
and a 39 inch beautifully detailed VTTBS Seaview Sub.

THis was a trully audacious step that paid off for 
everyone.Now the big question lies for many Lost
in Space fans.......Will Moebuis make the perfect J2?

Lunar Models had a pretty good size and the detail
was there for the most part, but looking back for
my taste I would have loved to have my J2 include
the Space Pod with Hanger, Astral upper dome 
lights, and lower level interior.

My hope is that Moebius will produce one with all
the bells and whistles, there is no question that
they can make a great offering it's just a question
of when.

SOOOOOOOOOOOON! I hope!

please feel free to chime in folks!


fortress:thumbsup:


----------



## Ductapeforever

Throw your pennys in the wishing well over at the" Jupiter II size poll" thread.


----------



## Y3a

While most want a large Jupiter 2 model, many are concerned about display space. I don't HAVE that problem, so I dropped over a GRAND on a copy of the 4 foot SPFX hull. The issue there is handling such a bulky heavy model. Also, making mechanical gear and such is ALL UP TO ME! I even had to track down a clear 1/2 sphere in plastic for the bubble! I had to get a larger air compressor and tools just to work on the fibreglass hull. The legs have to be metal due to the weight of the hull, and internal stuff. They will have to be made at a local machine shop ($$) 

I would have liked to see a 2 foot model in plastic, but too many people whined about that size being too big, so I guess "that vaporware company" may produce the only 2 footer. I have yet to see a mass produced model with correct landing gear either. 

I guess it depends whether you think the model is above the bar of acceptance so you will buy it.


----------



## JeffG

When you can figure out what scale to have the Space Pod, Jupiter 2 and interior detail all jive with each other, let me know. That would be a real neat trick!


----------



## John P

Oh good! Another J2 thread! :lol:


----------



## JPhil123

fortress said:


> 1998 was trully a historic year for modelers!
> 
> It has been more than 30 years before an injection molded
> modeler maker had produced an all-plastic Jupiter 2, but
> when Polar Lights decided to make this their first original
> mass market kit, they came up with a real winner.
> 
> Although the kit had minor flaws it still to this day is
> a must have for any serious collector.Fast forward 10
> years we are now seeing a new company leading the
> charge to take on IA subjects, Moebius Models has now
> produced excellent versions of the LIS Chariot, Space Pod,
> and a 39 inch beautifully detailed VTTBS Seaview Sub.
> 
> THis was a trully audacious step that paid off for
> everyone.Now the big question lies for many Lost
> in Space fans.......Will Moebuis make the perfect J2?
> 
> Lunar Models had a pretty good size and the detail
> was there for the most part, but looking back for
> my taste I would have loved to have my J2 include
> the Space Pod with Hanger, Astral upper dome
> lights, and lower level interior.
> 
> My hope is that Moebius will produce one with all
> the bells and whistles, there is no question that
> they can make a great offering it's just a question
> of when.
> 
> SOOOOOOOOOOOON! I hope!
> 
> please feel free to chime in folks!
> 
> 
> fortress:thumbsup:


Hello,
Jupiter 2 is my favorite subject. OK...here goes: While I would love to see something on the order of a new 18 inch model having all (or most) of the features most builders seem to want, there is always the possibility that a new model will not be made (for a variety of reasons: it may be determined that the materials and development costs would be so high that it would be deemed to be too expensive at the retail level, it may be decided that since it was very recently released as an injection mold kit it might be too so to do another, related costs may be too high and so on). We need to consider this possibility in these times of economic woe. 

So, I ask the question: what is an alternative we might be interested in, and Moebius might feel is viable? Personally, I really do want an accurate, affordable 18 inch kit...But, if that does not happen, then I would like to see an alternate Jupiter 2 related issue. For example, that Gemini XII version and launch complex I've posted about in the past, or a two model issue in one kit containing smaller Jupiter/Gemini versions, or a ship and crash site, and so on. What are you feelings?

Jim


----------



## toyroy

A model company recently issued a *1/24* scale _Lost in Space_ space pod kit, and a *1/24* scale _Lost in Space_ chariot kit- which featured a *1/24* scale _Lost in Space_ Robot kit. When it was suggested there might be interest in a *1/24* scale _Lost in Space_ Jupiter 2 kit, the response was:

_*1/24 scale?!? Are you MAD???*_ :lol:


----------



## falcon49xxxx

Moebius said:


> I voted for Big Mac size....


me too.


----------



## toyroy

But seriously folks ,

Far more important to me than the scale, is the hull _shape_. And from what I've read here, the vast majority of modelers want the same thing: the hull shape of the four-foot hero prop.

As for scale, my only preference is for a commonly-used scale. But, before you can decide on a scale, you need to decide what the _diameter_ of the full-scale Jupiter 2 is. As far as I know, this was never stated on the show. The diameter of the interior-exterior set was approximately 48'. The way that set was built, however, *utterly precludes* a lower level fitting in to ANY Jupiter 2 hull shape actually shown in the series. And _forget_ about that fusion core deck, Mr. Mod!

SciFi Metro skirted the issue by simply scaling the hero prop down- including the scrim which constituted it's only interior detail. Y3a, and a few others, will be happy with that solution. But most modelers, by my count, prefer at least a completely detailed flight deck. If there is only a flight deck, it makes the choice of ship diameter(again, about 48') much simpler. And, the interior will be scaled to the exterior pretty much as on the show. Also, it leaves room below the deck for proper landing gear, and their bays, as well as mechanical and electrical stuff.

Some strongly prefer a lower deck, too. Personally, I can live without a lower deck very easily. However, if there _is_ a lower deck, I strongly prefer that it be the _same_ scale as the upper deck. I believe two consistently-scaled decks can fit a hero-shaped hull, without seeming dinky- but this will take _very_ careful choices of the ship's diameter, and also the vertical level of the main deck, with respect to the hull.


----------



## Y3a

Actually, I'd like to see a 1/24th scale "set" so you could park your Chariot near that large footprint in the sand, and your Space Pod over by the rocks and scrub. The figures would then be in scale for all the components. A 1/24th scale Hero variant would be nice, with it's graceful curved sides and landing gear but I would HATE to see another bastardized Jupiter 2 with door details, those idiot circles in the gear wells and some Astrogator shoved up into the bubble. It really WAS a different machine than the flat sided set. The flat sider would be perfect with the Chariot and Pod. All 3 existed as full scale models and would scale correctly with FIGURES (A-hemmmm??? Beuler, ANYBODY??) 

Forget the lower deck. Would you then need the lower, lower deck? Nobody did a hatch on the bottom of the Robots foot either, and thats a good thing too!

When you did see the curved sided Hero, it had a scrim a few inches in back of the horrid wooden figures, and since the scrim was lit from the back, the figures were mostly silouettes(sp?). it was used for landing, and taking off, and a few pyro shots. Its biggest show was in "The Derelict" episode. Over it's abused 3 year career, it became more cruddy, and less functional, so by year 3 it was landing right on its SECOND fusion core. The only time you ever saw any other item WITH the 4 footer, it was either the Pod, dropping from the belly of a second 4 foot model, modified just for that shot, or dodging a missile. There are no items there for scaling. Therefore, an 18 inch model would be just fine, but a 1/24th scale, 60 foot in 'reality' Jupiter 2 would bee cool as it could be.


Thanks....I'm done now.


----------



## toyroy

Y3a said:


> ...The (flat sided set) would be perfect with the Chariot and Pod. All 3 existed as full scale models and would scale correctly with FIGURES...



You're right, of course, in a totally outside-the-narrative sense. If Moebius makes only one J2, and it's a "flat sider", I personally won't be buying it(WHOA, that's ONE whole sale right there, dude...) I don't need no stinkin' kit, for a flatster. But I covered all that, earlier in this thread. 




Y3a said:


> ...Forget the lower deck. Would you then need the lower, lower deck? Nobody did a hatch on the bottom of the Robots foot either, and thats a good thing too!...



Soooo, you want an underground, archeological-dig model of a crashed J2?




Y3a said:


> ...The only time you ever saw any other item WITH the 4 footer, it was either the Pod, dropping from (its) belly...or dodging a missile. There are no items there for scaling. Therefore, an 18 inch model would be just fine, but a 1/24th scale, 60 foot in 'reality' Jupiter 2 would bee cool as it could be...



Again, with the special-effects fundamentalism?


----------



## John P

'Round and 'round...


----------



## xsavoie

Of course 1/24th scale would go with the Charriot and Pod,so ideal in some way,but probably somewhat oversized.I wonder what either an 18 inches or 24 inches Jupiter 2 would cost,with fully detailed interior and figures.Probably near the cost of the Seaview for the 24 incher.


----------



## teslabe

So far all three kits, Seaview, Charriot and Space Pod, have, at least for me, have been very reasonably priced. I would have no problem with an 18", with top floor and working landing gears priced between $75-$100.


----------



## toyroy

For the sake of discussion, let's assume Moebius makes an 18" J2 kit. Let's also assume the kit has a detailed upper deck only, and an assumed 48' ship diameter. This gives a scale of 1/32. What stuff will come with it? A Robot? A complete figure set? A space pod? A chariot?


----------



## teslabe

I think if it was to be a deluxe kit, it would have it all..... Now I'm dreaming.......


----------



## Y3a

"Again, with the special-effects fundamentalism?"

yep.. That is the only people who filmed it. You never saw the cast in it, or under it did you? The Curved sided J2 was an effect shot. The flat sided versions were principle Photography.


----------



## John P

I'm having deja vu all over again! :freak:


----------



## toyroy

Y3a said:


> "Again, with the special-effects fundamentalism?"
> 
> yep.. That is the only people who filmed it. You never saw the cast in it, or under it did you? The Curved sided J2 was an effect shot. The flat sided versions were principle Photography.


You want Moebius to make a two foot model of the full size interior-exterior set?


----------



## fortress

I think that a "18" offering of the J2 by Moebuis would make more
sense. A 1/24 scale would most likely take more time to produce 
and be equally more expensive, I think it would sell but not as 
well as an "18". There is no question that a J2 offering by
Moebuis should be next after the FS-1 release.

A J2 suggestion as far as features that I would love to see is 
the addition of an extra lower hull, one would be designed to
provide a lower deck section the other hull would be for the 
standard lift off version. 

fortress:dude:


----------



## toyroy

fortress said:


> ...A J2 suggestion as far as features that I would love to see is the addition of an extra lower hull, one would be designed to
> provide a lower deck section the other hull would be for the
> standard lift off version.


 Hmmm. Something like this:


----------



## drmcoy

I realize this goes against the grain of most thinking, but I would actually enjoy a SMALLER version of the J2 -- maybe 6 to 8 inches...no interior other than, perhaps, what was seen on the FX version (back lighted wall and cockpit section only).

I would buy several of these -- one to play with or set out at work, and one or two to make dioramas with.

I'm all for a huge one as I think they are neat, but the problem I run into is a place to display such a huge model.

My humble two cents.


----------



## otto

That is a pretty good Idea! I've seen the Revell Prehistoric Scenes kits scaled down to about 3" . If Moebius were to make an 18" version, it could be scaled down, leaving off a few parts as well. It might make a good seller, with not to awfully big of and extra investment. hmmm.


----------



## Opus Penguin

I would buy any size, though 18" is what I would most like. Whether it had an interior or not would not bother my, but landing wells that you could open (similar to Trendmasters J2) would be cool.


----------



## toyroy

drmcoy said:


> ...I would actually enjoy a SMALLER version of the J2 -- maybe 6 to 8 inches...no interior other than, perhaps, what was seen on the FX version (back lighted wall and cockpit section only).
> 
> I would buy several of these -- one to play with or set out at work, and one or two to make dioramas with...


Lunar Models made a nice launch site diorama, with a smaller G12/J2- but it was quite expensive. That would be something Moebius could do, for much less money.


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## JPhil123

toyroy said:


> Lunar Models made a nice launch site diorama, with a smaller G12/J2- but it was quite expensive. That would be something Moebius could do, for much less money.


That falls into line with what I would like to see if there is no 18 incher made: At least a smaller but full Jupiter 2 and a full Gemini XII. I know, add on kits are rare, but here is where a launch tower and cradle kit (for the Gemini) and a crash site kit (for the Jupiter 2) might come in.

Jim


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## gareee

I'd want a Robot, and complete figure set.


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## j2man

Me too Gareee.


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## Dave Metzner

I'd say that the odds of a complete or incomplete figure set are almost as good as winning the Power Ball Lottery!
I'd also say that the chances of a Gemini XII kit of any size are no better...

Dave


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## Y3a

i think Gemini 12 (Henry Prentiss) Will custom build you a Gemini 12 and tower for around a GRAND or so....


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## gareee

PM Moderator said:


> I'd say that the odds of a complete or incomplete figure set are almost as good as winning the Power Ball Lottery!
> Dave


But as proven by aftermarket creators, using poser and a rapid prototyper, doing figures isn't quite as bad as it used to be.. and odds are, all the small figure's parts could fit ion the same mold.

If some guy can do it out of his house, surely a professional manufacurer can do it as well?


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## j2man

It's probably another licensing issue. All I know is everytime we bring up the Robnsinsons, we are shut down again. Like a snowball's chance in the extreme deep south of surviving of ever getting them........... Oh well, flying fretts is good at that stuff too! Maybe if an 18 incher comes out, there will be plenty of drewid's and flying fretts to fill the obvious void of characters........


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## JPhil123

PM Moderator said:


> I'd say that the odds of a complete or incomplete figure set are almost as good as winning the Power Ball Lottery!
> I'd also say that the chances of a Gemini XII kit of any size are no better...
> 
> Dave


Dave,

I'd say the odds are worse than winning the Power Ball Lottery! But, a lottery winner could have a highly professional version of the Gemini XII built for them - one of practically any size/scale...

Regards,
Jim


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## Opus Penguin

PM Moderator said:


> I'd say that the odds of a complete or incomplete figure set are almost as good as winning the Power Ball Lottery!
> I'd also say that the chances of a Gemini XII kit of any size are no better...
> 
> Dave


"So you're saying there's a chance!" - Dumb and Dumber


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## toyroy

PM Moderator said:


> I'd say that the odds of a complete or incomplete figure set are almost as good as winning the Power Ball Lottery!...


Moebius:

What kind of Jupiter 2 kit do _you_ want to make? Specifically, what scale(or size), what hull shape, what features, and what extras, e.g., space pod, Robot, chariot, etc.


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## John P

Far as we can tell, Moebius _doesn't_ want to make one. It's us who even brought it up!


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## drmcoy

OK, this would be cool...I haven't read this entire thread, so if previously posted, forgive me.

Make the J2 about 5 or 6 inches in size. Then release it in a SERIES of diorama kits.

First up, the J2 as it zooms through the towering rock formations when landing on planet surface -- based on stock footage of the 4-ft filming miniature seen in several LIS episodes.

Next, J2 in space circling that huge giant ship -- the one with the huge gaping maw that opens up and swallows ship. This one may need to be scaled down as that alien ship was so huge.

Then, J2 on diorama base having landed on alien planet.

Next, J2 landing on Earth, landing gear down.

Hmmm.. as I type this out it does seem rather silly -- but I know I would buy a few of these.


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## Opus Penguin

John P said:


> Far as we can tell, Moebius _doesn't_ want to make one. It's us who even brought it up!


One time I e-mailed him he stated they were seriously looking into it, but have too many other kits they want to do first. So I wouldn't say he doesn't want to, just that he is trying to figure out how to do it better first.

Although everyone's suggestions of a dream J2 kit are nice, most are unrealistic. I sure hope Moebius doesn't read this and think that there is no way he can't please the fans on a kit and drop the idea. I think no matter what he comes out with we would be happy. You can always modify it to the build you want.


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## toyroy

Opus Penguin said:


> ...Although everyone's suggestions of a dream J2 kit are nice, most are unrealistic...


I couldn't more strongly disagree. I've been following these J2 threads, and very little has been suggested that hasn't already been done, and most of _that_ in kit form.

You don't have to go very far back in any J2 thread, to see that I'm not the only one for whom the J2 is the single most important subject of a model kit. There is an ongoing, strong demand for expensive four-foot prop replicas, and two _different_ companies have successfully made, and sold, two-foot models. The demand is at least equal to that of Seaviews and flying subs, and probably outstrips that of any other Irwin Allen vehicle. I dare say that, for any reasonably well-made Jupiter 2 model issue, Moebius will do very well.


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## Opus Penguin

Oh he could probably make the dream kit, but the cost to modelers would be expensive. That was one reason I wasn't crazy about Lunar Models. It wasn't like I had $200 laying around to just spend on a model, plus another $200 for the interior. If he were to make this affordable (around the cost of the Seaview) and still be 18" or larger, it would need to be limited on what it could contain. Hence, my comment that the dream kit is unrealistic.


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## JPhil123

drmcoy said:


> OK, this would be cool...I haven't read this entire thread, so if previously posted, forgive me.
> 
> Make the J2 about 5 or 6 inches in size. Then release it in a SERIES of diorama kits.
> 
> First up, the J2 as it zooms through the towering rock formations when landing on planet surface -- based on stock footage of the 4-ft filming miniature seen in several LIS episodes.
> 
> Next, J2 in space circling that huge giant ship -- the one with the huge gaping maw that opens up and swallows ship. This one may need to be scaled down as that alien ship was so huge.
> 
> Then, J2 on diorama base having landed on alien planet.
> 
> Next, J2 landing on Earth, landing gear down.
> 
> Hmmm.. as I type this out it does seem rather silly -- but I know I would buy a few of these.


Hello,

This is along the lines of what I would like if there is no larger kit made. I don't see a whole series of Jupiter 2s very likely, but smaller kits could be widely popular. A fairly detailed Jupiter/Gemini model with a complete launch pad, and a popular version of the Jupiter 2 kit with the option of displaying it in an inflight mode, in a landed (gear down) mode, or in a crash site scenario would be nice to have available. 

I almost bought the Lunar Models issued Jupiter/Gemini and launch complex a few years ago. I really considered their launch complex, but in addition to its price tag, the Gemini was solid resin and could not be detailed or lighted in the interior (at least not with my skill level).

Regards,
Jim


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## woof359




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## toyroy

woof359 said:


>


Always liked that diorama! Too bad Johnny Lightning crammed the hatch, porthole, and viewport together, though.


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## StarshipClass

Opus Penguin said:


> One time I e-mailed him he stated they were seriously looking into it, but have too many other kits they want to do first. So I wouldn't say he doesn't want to, just that he is trying to figure out how to do it better first.
> 
> Although everyone's suggestions of a dream J2 kit are nice, most are unrealistic. I sure hope Moebius doesn't read this and think that there is no way he can't please the fans on a kit and drop the idea. I think no matter what he comes out with we would be happy. You can always modify it to the build you want.


I remember his replying to a thread saying pretty much the same thing.

If he came out with a 39" Seaview, I don't put anything past his capabilities including a 24" J2 complete with crew figures.:thumbsup:


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## Dave Metzner

Just remember that the whole point of releasing a kit for us, is for it return a profit on the investment... 
We can produce all sorts of exotic kits....at exotic costs and try to sell them for exotic prices.... If they don't all produce profits we won't be releasing any kits before for very long....
As I have tried to explain a 24 inch kit is a non starter - - too expensive to produce and ship ......a kit with six figures is also a non starter....the addition of six figures with rights for actors likenesses etc just complicates the process of kit development more than we want to deal with, and will add to tooling cost thus driving the kit price up.... 

I'm sure that resin figures will be available quickly IF OR WHEN there is a new Jupiter 2 done.......


Dave


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## bert model maker

rondenning said:


> I have been in contact with the folks at Sci-Fi Metropolis about some work in the last month.
> The owner had gotten seriously injured, spent a considerable amount of time in the hospital, required some surgery/s I believe, etc..
> BUT, the good news is they have renewed thier Licences and are trying to catch up with all thier projects, but are still about 18 months behind, and are covered up!
> They will be coming out with both 2 foot, and 4 foot Jupiter 2 models (supposed to be out by Christmas this year), The Pod(end of this year spring of next), the Chariot(next year or spring of following year), and are still working to get wave 2 of the 1/6 scale figures out ASAP! As well, they are finishing and shipping the 1/2 scale Robot B9's as fast as they can! They have several other Lost in Space products coming out as well, but I can't remember the specifics on them, and so don't want to give any erronious info!!
> Keep watching for their stuff, and no, I don't know what their prices are gonna be yet.:freak:
> Ron:devil:


rondenning, WELCOME TO HOBBYTALK, I see you are using MY personal avatar that I created & uploaded for myself with my screen name MODEL MAKER on it, and it IS the avatar I use on other boards as well. EACH members personal avatars are just that PERSONAL By using another Members avatar with that other members screen name on it, it creates confusion as to WHO is actually doing the posting. Please choose another non-personalized avatar, Thank you !
Model Maker


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## rondenning

Look model maker, I AM a model maker. I already removed the avatar that I selected from the list of avatars on the site, since it is yours, I have no problem with that. I only selected the damn thing yesterday. What are you looking up every post I have made since I have been on here?
When I selected the avatar, the site placed it on EVERY post I have made on here! If you go look, the site has now removed it from EVERY post I have made. Did you not think that the PM you sent me was good enough?? 
I was away all day, just got home, sat down, got online and MAN!!!
Again, I build models(for a paycheck), that IS what I do. My favorite subject is Lost in Space, when I found that avatar(of a photo I have had in my collection for YEARS- that is available ALL over the net) how was I to know that you added the words MODEL MAKER to it, and made it yours???? 
Personally, the PM you sent me already had it taken care of, then, every thread I normally view here has you posting about it!! Most people respond nicely if they make an honest mistake, and personally, I don't remember seeing that avatar on ANY thread I read here, or I would NOT have selected it, knowing someone else was already useing it!!!!
ALL YOU HAD TO DO WAS ASK LIKE A NORMAL PERSON BEFORE YOU STARTED ACTING AS THOUGH I TOOK IT FROM YOU - *I DID NOT*!!!!!
Instead maybe you should ask HobbyTalk why they listed your PERSONAL avatar as a standard avatar for anyone to select and use?????!!!!!!!!!!!
SHEESH!!!
Ron:devil:


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## bert model maker

We both posted on the 18th and your post was a few below my post 5 1/2 hours earlier with my avatar showing. I never said anything about you stealing it, not at all ! I asked you nicely and gave a calm reason for it ( the post above yours here)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>QUOTE>
rondenning, WELCOME TO HOBBYTALK, I see you are using MY personal avatar that I created & uploaded for myself with my screen name MODEL MAKER on it, and it IS the avatar I use on other boards as well. EACH members personal avatars are just that PERSONAL By using another Members avatar with that other members screen name on it, it creates confusion as to WHO is actually doing the posting. Please choose another non-personalized avatar, Thank you !
Model Maker
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
I saw my model maker name /avatar popping up in 2 threads i had already suscribed to and replied to them through e mail alerts, I wasn't looking for your posts. I know you did not intentionally use it, I just wanted to get it resolved ASAP . I have been through trying to clear my name & reputation a few years ago when someone using my avatar inflamed more than one person, That is something I do not wish to go through again ! I too have been away from the computer.I want to apologize if you were offended or upset by my bringing this to your attention, THAT was not my intention. Thank you Rondenning for removing it, now lets get back to modeling lost in space


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## StarshipClass

PM Moderator said:


> Just remember that the whole point of releasing a kit for us, is for it return a profit on the investment...
> We can produce all sorts of exotic kits....at exotic costs and try to sell them for exotic prices.... If they don't all produce profits we won't be releasing any kits before for very long....
> As I have tried to explain a 24 inch kit is a non starter - - too expensive to produce and ship ......a kit with six figures is also a non starter....the addition of six figures with rights for actors likenesses etc just complicates the process of kit development more than we want to deal with . . .


I would have thought the same thing about the 39" Seaview or the huge PL "Forbidden Planet" model kit but then I know you've got a role to play in the process and you do it well


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## toyroy

PM Moderator said:


> Just remember that the whole point of releasing a kit for us, is for it return a profit on the investment...


And I thought you were in it for the new plastic smell. :freak:



PM Moderator said:


> We can produce all sorts of exotic kits....at exotic costs and try to sell them for exotic prices.... If they don't all produce profits we won't be releasing any kits before for very long....


I know, but could you please explain that to Senator McCain?



PM Moderator said:


> As I have tried to explain a 24 inch kit is a non starter - - too expensive to produce and ship ......


I can see that- assuming, that is, you're constraining yourselves to a two-piece hull design. If Polar Lights had made the C-57D that way, it would not have been feasible, either(as an injection-molded hull.) 

If you break the hull top, upper hull sides, outer lower hull, and inner lower hull into, say, 45 degree segments, the tooling expenses and box size should be much less. 

But then, perhaps that would be beyond the skills of the average Jupiter 2 modeler here...  




PM Moderator said:


> a kit with six figures is also a non starter....the addition of six figures with rights for actors likenesses etc just complicates the process of kit development more than we want to deal with, and will add to tooling cost thus driving the kit price up....


How about a Robot, space pod, chariot, and crash site accessories?


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## John P

rondenning said:


> Look model maker, I AM a model maker. I already removed the avatar that I selected from the list of avatars on the site, since it is yours, I have no problem with that. I only selected the damn thing yesterday. What are you looking up every post I have made since I have been on here?
> When I selected the avatar, the site placed it on EVERY post I have made on here! If you go look, the site has now removed it from EVERY post I have made. Did you not think that the PM you sent me was good enough??
> I was away all day, just got home, sat down, got online and MAN!!!
> Again, I build models(for a paycheck), that IS what I do. My favorite subject is Lost in Space, when I found that avatar(of a photo I have had in my collection for YEARS- that is available ALL over the net) how was I to know that you added the words MODEL MAKER to it, and made it yours????
> Personally, the PM you sent me already had it taken care of, then, every thread I normally view here has you posting about it!! Most people respond nicely if they make an honest mistake, and personally, I don't remember seeing that avatar on ANY thread I read here, or I would NOT have selected it, knowing someone else was already useing it!!!!
> ALL YOU HAD TO DO WAS ASK LIKE A NORMAL PERSON BEFORE YOU STARTED ACTING AS THOUGH I TOOK IT FROM YOU - *I DID NOT*!!!!!
> Instead maybe you should ask HobbyTalk why they listed your PERSONAL avatar as a standard avatar for anyone to select and use?????!!!!!!!!!!!
> SHEESH!!!
> Ron:devil:


Two questions.
1) Is your name Bert? If not, I can't imagine why you'd choose that avatar. Avs are all in a common pool here, and we try to respect those custom made ones that someone uploaded for personal use. A newbie wouldn't know that, of course, so it's an honest mistake. Unless your name isn't Bert, then it's just a mystery.

2) What's with the attitude? Do you always come into other peoples' parties yelling and screaming? If you came to a party where you didn't know anyone, picked up someone else's beer by mistake, and they said "Hey! that's my beer!" would you be all up their face screaming like this? I should hope not. 

This is a pretty laid-back and polite board here. We'd like to keep it that way.


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## John P

toyroy said:


> If you break the hull top, upper hull sides, outer lower hull, and inner lower hull into, say, 45 degree segments, the tooling expenses and box size should be much less.
> 
> But then, perhaps that would be beyond the skills of the average Jupiter 2 modeler here...



Well, I can tell ya those seams would be beyond the amount of effort I'd care to put into it! getting rid of seams on contiguous surfaces are one of my weak points. add to that the metallic paint job, which will make the slightest hitch stand out like a meteor dent...


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## fortress

Ok to sum all this up a "24" J2 with crew is out of the question,
well I understand that, and an "18" with crew is also a problem
due to royalties and such, which I also understand.

But a "18" J2 is the next logical step from every point of
view. After that the Spindrift, Time Tunnel Complex, and
the POA Icarus for examples would really be some short
list suggestions but the J2 is the smart play.

Fortress:thumbsup:


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## Dave Metzner

Anyone familiar with the layout of openings in the hull of Jupiter 2 will know that neither tha top nor the bottom of the vessel is symetrical so dividing the hull into pie shaped segments LIKE C-57 D will not work, all that cutting J-2 into segmenst does is complicate assembly of the model and increase the tooling costs

The segments of C-57 D are all EXACTLY alike so they are made from just two tools.. The reason tha C-57 was done in segments was to cut tooling cost - Not to make the box smaller! The C-57 D box is the largest box of any Polar Lights kit!

If we cut J-2 into Pie shaped sections each section will be different from the one next to it Now we have 6 or 8 cavities and 6 or 8 cores not just 2 cavities and 2 cores as in C-57. A pair of tools to produce a two piece hull will be smaller and simpler than tooling to produce all the different segments of a Jupiter 2 cut up like the C-57 D hull.
This is a non starter. 
The only sensible way to do the J-2 hull is in upper and lower parts which limits the overall size of the model.

IF and I empasize the word IF we decide to do a Jupiter 2 it probably will be a two piece hull - It will probably be NO larger than 18 inches - IT probably will NOT include six figures and a robot....

End of discussion!

Dave


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## John P

> End of discussion!


Oh, you wish!


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## Dave Metzner

Easy to fix - Thread closed!


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