# RO and Open



## Mike(^RacerX^) (Mar 15, 2003)

Since I spend a good portion of my time racing against myself and the clock,my G3 poly mods are no longer fast enough.

I know some guys that lurk here could probably jump in with some good info,and hopefully some pics.I dont think anyone has ever really spoken at all here on HT about these HO classes.

Ive kind of taken an intrest in "restricted open" and "open" class racing.I can pretty much figure out what open class is,as a matter of fact I remember seeing a car once a long time ago called "Thor"that was pretty scary looking.So just for my own entertainment I have a couple of ideas for open class cars that I will scratch build.

But RO,what are the restrictions in this class???I assume everyone runs neo trac mags????
Is this similar to the races the larger scale guys do with those "wing cars"???

Do aerodynamics have any effect on these cars due to their incredible speed?????


Interested in any an everything anyone might be able to add to enlighten us further.

Thanks.....

Mike


----------



## neorules (Oct 20, 2006)

Mike technically the HOPRA name for resticted open is poly mod-- if that makes sense. WE race cars that have polymer motor and traction magnets for this class. Typically the arms are in the 35-34 wind area. The open class we call unlimited. Neo magnets are used for motor and tractions. Motors are normally 32-33 gauge wire winds. The THOR cars you saw were built by Joel Pennington and Scott Terry of HOST racing. The best commercially available unlimited car is the Cheetah from Slottech-- it runs about $400. I like your Idea about building your own cars with your own ideas, thats why I like the unlimited class. Only rules are dimensions and can't be dangerous to people marshalling. The cars are insanely fast and you need a good power supply or batteries for them to run well. Check out youtube and look up Hopra to see an unlimited race. Good Luck and post up anymore Questions you might have.


----------



## neorules (Oct 20, 2006)

Also check out this footage: http://www.planetofspeed.net/BBS/viewtopic.php?t=4139
_________________


----------



## tjettim (Nov 29, 2005)

The best way to get your feet wet is to buy a drop in neo car
from one of the big three-BSRT,Wizzard or Slottech.Then if
you want to go faster yet you can start modifying it with extra
magnets,chassis reinforcements,hotter arms, etc.


----------



## Mike(^RacerX^) (Mar 15, 2003)

Thanks for the replies guys.Appreciated.

Im down with winding and balancing my own arms.Ive seen arms called "double wind".Im assuming that it means the arm is somehow wound twice????

Maybe someone could explain to me what "double wind" is all about.

The videos of these guys racing them is insane.The more I think about it tho,and the more ideas I keep getting.I really want to try and do an unlimited once my track is done.Much more cost effective,as I have a ton of brass and other stuff here that I could use to build a chassis.

Mike


----------



## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

A double wind has two coils of wire wound on each pole, same or different gauge. You can do both wires side by side (more conventional) or wind one on top of the other (layered). This significantly lowers the arm resistance and affects torque, acceleration, and maximum RPM.


----------



## neorules (Oct 20, 2006)

Mike-- the name of the game is light and strong for the chassis. Brass just won't cut it anymore. Try composits or carbon fibre for the chassis.


----------



## Mike(^RacerX^) (Mar 15, 2003)

AFX2:Thanks,that explains it.

Neo:The idea of using composites or carbon fiber is interesting.

Do you know of a source for these materials?

And while Im at it,how about a source for different gauges of magnet wire???I dont need a 1500 pound spool of each gauge,just a small roll will do.Finding it in smaller quantities seems to be a problem.Im only building little HO slot cars,not electric 1:1 locomotives.

I had my fun and learned quite a bit using wire that I scavanged from old VCR motors and other trashed home appliances.
Now that I can do it,Id like to do it right with the right stuff.

Thanks again fellas.....

Mike


----------



## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

Mike,if you're looking for a cheap source of Neo mag's try these guys,their quality of magnet seems to be a bit better then K&J's Neo mags.If you look around,you'll find a set of magnets that are almost a drop-in into a Storms traction box,if they fit the Storm,they should also fit the G chassis,as they use virtually identical traction mags in both cars.
Rick

http://www.indigo.com/magnets/gphmgnts/Nd-rectangle-magnets.html


----------



## gear buster (Dec 1, 2005)

I'm with everyone else. Just jump in and run whatever. That is what I did and now Im addicted to drop in neo and unlimited.:thumbsup:
RO with the polymer Phase 3 mags is also a blast and very quick. Did I mention it costs a little less also..
In unlimited its like neo said. No rules except width and not aloud to kill or harm turn marshalls.. Everything else is a free for all.:woohoo:
So I say just jump in with both feet and see what trips your trigger finger.
I have used Radio Shack earth mags when I started out. They make great add on traction mags for the front corners and for add ons.


----------



## Mike(^RacerX^) (Mar 15, 2003)

Thanks guys.

Rick how the heck you been????? :wave:
I kind of remember that these kinds of cars are right up your alley.
Is there a part number for the drop in mags?????

I have not run a car in over a month.Reason being is I made a promise to myself that I would finally finish my track that I started 3 years ago 100%.
Almost there.This week I took out one section that was far to hard to drive.In about 4 foot of track,I had three 6"r curves.So I eliminated that section and added a section that one be a deslot every two seconds.That ended up being a major project.Removing that section created a gap where the track had to join together.
So I ended up making a piece of track that was about 1.75 in to fill in.It was a mind bender to figure out,but I did it and it worked well.Just need to put rails in it and shes good.Thank god for JB Weld.

Also did turn borders,and I am going over every square inch of track with auto body spot putty,filling in the gaps between the track pieces,as well as smoothing over all of the track joints.
Its been a lot of sanding,a lot of dust,a lot of hours hunched over the track,BUT,when it is done,it will be as close as I can get to a Max or routed using Tomy sectional plastic track.
I know for a fact that there are a lot of HO guys within a short drive from me.I want to get this thing done,and then try to concentrate on getting some HO racing organized around here.

That being said,when its done,I'll be picking you guys brains a whole lot more.This is a project Ive been looking forward to for awhile now.


Mike(Ice9)


PS Also,still looking for info on the magnet wire as well as chassis building material.


----------



## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

Been awhile Mike,glad to see you're back into the hobby again:thumbsup:
We've been doing some experimenting with stock Storm chassis's and neo's lately.
This latest venture for us came because of level 25 poly mags,we went looking for magnets that we could get our hands on,that were consitent in quality,and they had to be cheaper then the unobtainable level 25's.
So far we've successfully matched the neo car's to the level 25 cars,using about 3 bucks worth of Neo mags compared to 70 bucks for level 25's,and we're just scratching the surface of the neo's potential .
I'll get the part numbers for you tonight Mike,but we're using a flat neo mag from K&J for a motor mag,and a rectangular neo mag from Indiago for the traction mag in the Storms,but with a little measuring,i think you could find drop-in motor mags for a G from these guys .
LOL,i know you've been talking about scratch building you're own chassis's for awhile,seems to me,you did a little s'perimenting along those lines a few years back,keep up the s'perimenting,and keep us abreast of your progress:thumbsup:
Rick
Rick


----------



## Mike(^RacerX^) (Mar 15, 2003)

Rick Im always in the hobby to some degree.I just am to busy to post on any of the forums,tho I do read them all every day.

Hey when you get around to posting those part numbers,post the STorm ones as well.
I have 7 or 8 Storm rollers here I never got around to doing anything with.

The last batch of experimenting I did was to try to make a G3 chassis that would take brush barrels rather then the finicky G3 set up.
AS much as I mess with those dang G3 end bells over the years,they can still be somewhat of a crap shoot.
I'll probably end up picking up a few of the Decosomo bulkheads sometime down the road soon.But I need to throw some stuff up on ebay,the wife will shoot me if I spend any more money on my hobbies.I went way WAY over budget last year on my guitar and music stuff.

Mike


----------



## gear buster (Dec 1, 2005)

*storm part #*

Mike,

Here is a quick way to refference of Storm and patriot parts #
All the magnets available to direct fit..
http://www.wizzardho.com/


----------



## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

Damn bosses,lol.
Did ya ever get the guy who set off the bomb in your basement:wave:.
Just taking a dig at ya Mike,lol.
Mike :Gary's (BSRT) got a new endbell out these days that's supposedly quite an improvement over his older tweaked endbells,i haven't seen one yet,but it's apparently using twisted brushes,along with some other tweaks.
Mark at Scale Engineering's also got a pretty trick bell these days,his are also using twisted brushes,and he's soldered the brushes directly to the brush arms,so things are looking up in G land concerning endbells:thumbsup:
We tried a few of Dan's endbell conversions,but never really had any success with them,the biggest problem we ran into,was the chassis gets pretty flimsy,when you whack a bunch of it out to accomodate the brush barrels,they might be okay in the lower level cars,like an SS car,but in our R/O cars we couldn't get the idea to work quite right.
Here's the part numbers for the mags we're using the Storms Mike,some of our guys have just been gluing them in,and then there's me who spends the time to make them a drop-in mag,either way has been working for us,the best thing,is for the price of one set of factory mags,you can have a whole grocery bag full of mags to play with and experiment on.For the same price as one set of level 25 polymer mags,we've got enough mags to build roughly 20 cars,can't beat the price,lol

Motor mags for Storms/Scorpions - K&J Magnetics - B661.These are a flat mag,and we've been gluing 2 of them together as each motor mag,so you need 4 of these mags per chassis

http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=B661

But they have a bigger B662 mag that should be a bit better

http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=B662



Traction mags for Storms- Indigo Instruments - 44227-2.5.These are a drop-in into a Storms traction mag box,but you have to grind notches for the ledges,or you can cut the ledges out,and use a good quality CA glue to glue the magnets flush with the bottom of the chassis,both ways have worked for us.

http://www.indigo.com/magnets/gphmgnts/Nd-rectangle-magnets.html

This is our first foray into cars like this,so we're on a steep learning curve,and haven't even begun to scratch the surface of the neo's potential,but we've already blown the 70 dollar level 25 poly mag's records into the ground,with a set of mags worth less then 2 bucks,an that's even at Canuck prices,lol:woohoo::woohoo:

Hey if you give up sleeping,you can fit the slotcar hobby into the daily schedule,just ask me,discovered 2 of hrs of sleep leaves about 4 or 5 hrs for slotcarring:thumbsup:
Good hearing from you Mike.
Rick


----------



## medic57 (Mar 3, 2008)

> I really want to try and do an unlimited once my track is done.


Make sure you glue the rails in or you will pull them up.:thumbsup:


----------



## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

I was a little worried about that on my track Mick,as my rails aren't glued in,but i've been beating the crap outta these neo combo's for well over 10,000 laps now,and if anything my tyco track is getting better,got no explanation for it at all:woohoo:
Rick


----------

