# Setting up adjustable brush barrels?



## Dyno (Jan 26, 2009)

I have put myself together my first inline build and I'm not sure what amp draw to tune to. It is a 2.9 ohm Tyco with polymer motor magnets. To get the best power it seems like I'm pulling .422 amps at wot unloaded with 19.6 volts. Is this too much pressure on the brushes? I think I read I should be in the .25 range somewhere but I think that was with stock magnets. I don't want to burn it up unnecessarily. Any advice would be great.


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

Throw that amp draw idea as far as you can out the window,it's not very good.
Have you got a 3 volt battery box,something that has a stable output.
Then tune to the highest rpm by ear.
.422 isn't that high on a poly car.
You can use the amp draw to check your rear axle and how free it's running,after you have it tuned by ear.
Amp draws are probably the poorest way to tune a car


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## Dyno (Jan 26, 2009)

Thank you Hornet. That is the highest rpm level at that draw.
I only checked it after doing some dyno runs.
according to my dyno the car is capable of 23 mph in .7 seconds at a distance of 15 feet. It probably will need a taller gear. What do you think? I have no idea where I should be with this car as its my first build. Set the track record on my track, but my track is small and twisty.

I am at .458 rear tire height and a stock Tyco gear ratio. Im running on Tomy plastic track. I was advised to run a tall height for the track inconsistencies.

Oh, with the axle in and a heavy magnetic down force, it draws .723 amps at WOT at 19.6 volts

Also, if I conjur up a laser thermometer, what should be the max temperature to allow the car to get to?


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

What arm are you running.
Depending on who's arm is in it,will determine it's heat factor.
BSRT's spinners will take close to 300 degrees usually,but a Wizzard custom wind,i get scared of at any temp over 210.
As long as it's running under 190 degrees you should be okay.
Keep an eye on your brush springs,they're a weak link sometimes.
Slottech and BSRT springs will take 220 or better for heat,but Wizzards springs will start to shrink and lose tension at those temps.
If the car is running strong,and all of a sudden falls off,stop instantly and look at the brush springs,the fastest way to burn up an arm is keep pushing it once it starts to lose brush tension,you can cook an arm in a matter of feet,not laps if the brush tension falls off.
You sound okay on tires,have you marked the bottom of the chassis to see if it's dragging the rails hard.
Your ears are you're best tuning tool,if the car sounds noisy and seems very inconsistent,it's usually to low:thumbsup:


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## Dyno (Jan 26, 2009)

Thanks for all your advice. I'm running a wizzard sp05 armature. The car is running quite cool. It is not dragging at all. I ran it on my friends 65 foot layout tonight and out ran his patriot by about a tenth. My best time was a 3.11 , the patriot ran a 3.23. I am very happy with it. I can lower the car a little more I think.


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

With an SP05,it's wise to keep it up in the air,they're a pretty light arm,more commonly known as a Greenwire.
Try to keep that arm under 150,it doesn't like heat
Slottech sells a better greenwire arm,but it's also twice the money.

Wizz's greenwires aren't very robust,so don't abuse it ,or it'll die on you.

The weak link will be the solder joints,if you start to see any silver on the chassis in the neighbourhood of the com,it's starting to blow the solder off the tabs,and if you get to it soon enough,you can usually resolder the tabs before it blows the windings apart.

Not trying to burst your bubble,but in this hobby you get what you pay for,so don't expect to much from that arm in a poly car
Some of the SP05's live for quite awhile,but also don't be surprised if it doesn't
Rick


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## Dyno (Jan 26, 2009)

Yes, I have heard they aren't a really good arm but I didn't want to spend a ton of money on my first build. I'm very happy with the performance for the money spent. I don't think it got much over 100 degrees. I ordered a non contact thermometer this evening that I think will be better than the one we were using tonight. I learned a lot today about inlines. I was looking at the BSRT arms. They are listed by gauge not ohms. What would be a suitable gauge to get that wont be too hot and I can run with the polymer magnets?
Thanks again


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

BSRT/Scale Auto's arms won't work in a Tyco or Wizz car,the timing is differant.

You're probably in the ballpark if you stay with arms right around 2.7 to 3.0.
Alot of it depends on your track layout and your power supply output voltage.
I usually shy away from reconmending arms,there's too many variables involved.
If you're running a Wizz or Tyco car,you can run Slottech's armatures in it to.
Just a heads up,your gears probably should be upgraded to:thumbsup:

To learn poly cars,you'll have to be in the position to spend some money.
They aren't cheap to learn set-up on,as you should experiment with differant arms/gears/tires/brush springs/brushes etc., to find what works for you,so expect to spend some cash on the learning curve
Rick


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## Dyno (Jan 26, 2009)

I changed almost every part on the car except the gears. I wanted to see how it ran with the stock gearing. So far it is fine. I may try a taller gear. The power supply is a Mastech 0-30 volt adjustable and 10 amps I believe. There is a picture of the track on my post "WTB tyco hp parts" in the buying and selling forum. I have another order of parts coming with springs and brushes coming, but honestly I'm only basement racing and the car already has performed as well as I had hoped. There is no one to compete with here so nothing to really compare to. Just me and one friend. We are fiercely competitive though. These inline cars were just a side project . I'm mainly a T-jet guy but I want to learn to be competitive in all arenas.:thumbsup:


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

LOL,that's how it happens,2 competitive guys at a home track,can lead to alot of money spending:wave:
As long as you keep an eye on the heat levels ,you'll be okay.

FYI,a Wizzard car is the easiest car to work with if you're on a learning curve.
They have the least amount of removable components,which makes the learning curve a little easier.
Rick


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

Nice track,as reconmended you could probably up the gear ratio a fair bit from the stock 7/25.:thumbsup:
I'd even go all the way up to an 8/23 combo on that track,but that's me,and that's my preferance normally.
Gearing is something that you'll have to experiment with to find what suits your driving style.
Try to keep your pinion and crown gear as opposites ie:if you run an odd numbered pinion,try to match it with an even numbered crown.
Usually they'll mesh a little nicer if they're opposites.


Keep track of your room temp,and the surface temp of the track during your testing,try to keep it with-in a few degrees between test sessions,as a couple degrees differance from one test session to another can really skewer your test results.
The biggest issue is keeping the tracks surface temp consistent from test to test,that's where you'll need a decent thermometer


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

One other thing i'd look into,is arm bearings.
I haven't ran a tyco in 20 years or more,but i think you can still get bearing'd bulkheads,or make your own.
Bearings might hurt initially on price,but in the long run they'll pay for themselves with less brush and gear wear.
They won't neccessarily gain you any speed,but they definitely add longevity to the car.
The best guy to get advice from is probably Tony at Slottech,he's been running Tyco based cars longer then anybody,and his T cars are a distant relative of the old Tyco chassis.
Rick


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## Dyno (Jan 26, 2009)

I never thought of checking the track temperature. Great tip. My friend got a Wizzard storm extreme the other day. Nice running car but not so fast. We were thinking about putting an arm in it because it could use a boost and it looks quite easy to do. It was running 4.4s and I tweaked the brushes and got it into the 3.8s. Yes, I have seen the bearings available for the Tyco bulkheads. They are generally listed at 20 for a set. I wanted to try bushings too but haven't seen them listed anywhere for Tyco. Also, last night, in one of the several spectacular high speed crashes, the shoe hanger snapped off. I've read about how guys pin them but did not do it. I repaired it this morning by notching the top of the chassis in line with the old hanger and drilled a hole at the end of the notch. I bent a small finishing nail into an L shape and glued it to the chassis inserting the L into the hole. I left it a little long on purpose to help with the shoes ripping off in a crash. Seems to work quite well. I went through all that trouble because I did not want to switch everything to another chassis after I got it all working well. My next project is to build a polymer HPX2. Factory high 3 to 4 ohm arm. I had one running with that storm extreme dead stock except tires. I want to see how fast I can get a 4 dollar car to go with mags, shoes and springs. Might be a fun affordable fairly quick car.


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

Anybody who's first build is running 3.0's is no slouch as a builder.

The only downside to the old Tyco is it's ability to explode into a million parts with a good wall shot.
If you hunt around,i think you can still find tips on pinning the bulkheads into one.

There's also good and bad bulkheads,i forget which ones you want,but if you look close at the bulkheads they have either dots/checkmarks or some other marks.
Hopefully one of the guys still in the know on the bulkheads,will chime in.

If rules don't worry you,sand the bottom of the chassis to bring the car down some more.
Piece of 220 grit wet/dry sandpaper on a flat surface,and sand in a circular figure 8 style motion,to help keep it flat during sanding.
You can usually sand a Tyco a fair bit,just leave enough material on the bottom to hold the mags in place.
For every thous you sand off the chassis,you can usually come down 2 thous in tire size,as a rule of thumb..

Pick yourself up some .015" piano wire,should be available at any hobby shop/craft supply store,makes repairing pick-up shoe tabs a little easier,and if you carefully drill the tab before it's broke off,you can use the wire to stiffen the factory tab,so it's not as prone to breaking off.
Use a small pin vise and a sharp or new bit to hand drill the tabs,then insert the piano wire in the hole,and cut it off to match the tab.

LOL,what are you gonna do when your buddy starts hopping up his Extreme,he's already got Neo traction mags
With the Storms longer traction mag box,once he starts hopping up his Extreme,you'll be working to stay on level ground with a Tyco.
He can gain alot out of his Storm if he sands it,and cuts the bottom of the traction mag box,then glues the mags in flush with the bottom of the chassis with Black Max.
Once he throws poly motor mags and a decent arm in it,it'll be tough to get a Tyco to stay with his Extreme:wave:


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## Dyno (Jan 26, 2009)

The proper bulkheads , from what I read are a check mark front and a 4 dot rear. I used a check mark front and a three dot rear. I didn't feel like tearing apart another car I had to get the 4 dot rear. I have a nice machine at work that would make quick work of sanding the chassis if I chose that route. But as you previously said, that arm isnt so good and lowering it will just make it hotter. I could go lower with the tires now without dragging but I dont have anything in In stock right now. I noticed last night that the Extreme had long neo traction magnets. But I noticed they were fairly high up in the chassis. We discussed lowering it last night. I don't mind if I get blown out by that car, it's apples and oranges. For 38 dollars I will just have to buy one too, lol. That's how we roll, make up our own rules and classes and build our own cars and then throw down. After we race we openly tell each other what we did to the cars. I enjoy tweaking and modifying just as much as running these little cars. No car has gone faster than this Tyco around that track. It holds the record for now at 3.119. But the Patriot has never been tweaked. It's an older model too, probably the first model. He just took it out of the box. It's best time was 3.2something. It looks like an SP05 arm in it too. But also it has monster traction magnets so I'm sure with some tweaking it can go faster. I was hoping to run a 2.99 with the tyco, but after only one night of running it, it's not out of the question. Just putting it out there, we have T jets that run deep into the 4s. Eventually it will be 3s with persistence ... Lol


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

You guys got it figured out
Sharing tips and ideas keeps it fun,while still being competitive:thumbsup:
If you don't stray from that path much,it'll still be fun years from now:wave:
Rick


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## Dyno (Jan 26, 2009)

Hornet said:


> You guys got it figured out
> Sharing tips and ideas keeps it fun,while still being competitive:thumbsup:
> If you don't stray from that path much,it'll still be fun years from now:wave:
> Rick


I totally agree.


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

Dana for giggles if you haven't tried this trick,put a small piece of piano wire in the hole at the rear of the chassis on your Tyco,double guide-pins are good for a laugh till the guys catch on,lol:thumbsup:


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## Dyno (Jan 26, 2009)

Lol, that sounds like a great prank. I just might have to do that.


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

Don't start laughing,that'll be your downfall,they'll know somethings up when you start giggling


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## tossedman (Mar 19, 2006)

Frickenfracken#$%%^! Is that why you're always laughing Rick?

Todd


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## Boosted-Z71 (Nov 26, 2007)

We always did things that did not do anything as far as performance gains, when I raced Karts, and when someone ask about change the subject, that will cause even more of a stir

Boosted


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