# 1/350 Ktinga work in progress



## REL (Sep 30, 2005)

Here's some pics of how far along I am so far. It will be clear and hollow for lighting, with a later Quonos conversion kit. This is the TMP version


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## ilbasso (Jun 7, 2006)

Great freakin' targs! That'll be one awesome machine!


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## Lloyd Collins (Sep 25, 2004)

Just fantastic! Another great looking ship.


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## drewid142 (Apr 23, 2004)

Will you be making a kit?

FANTASTIC!


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## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

drewid142 said:


> Will you be making a kit?


The upthread reference to the Quonos (_Kronos I_?) "conversion kit" would seem to suggest so.

Thanks for the pix, REL. I'm thrilled you've taken on this particular subject. The design is a personal fave, and I know you'll hit it out of the park. 

What a terrific companion piece for the P.L. Refit!


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## Lou Dalmaso (Jul 13, 2004)

*Oh Boy!*

(clears more shelf space)
:thumbsup:


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## schmidtjv (Apr 7, 2004)

This is my all-time absolute must have! I'm definitely in for two, and judging from the drool seeping from my next door neighbor, he's in for at least one as well!

John


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## drewid142 (Apr 23, 2004)

I'm in for two as well... one to build.... and one for the unhealthy habit of kit collecting that has developed ove the last decade.

I'm thinking about a cutaway!


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## Lloyd Collins (Sep 25, 2004)

^^^A cutaway! You can do it, as seen on your refit. 

I guess it is the most logical choice, for a next 350 model, a Klingon ship. At least with Rich doing it, it will be the best.


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## drewid142 (Apr 23, 2004)

the cutaway comment was a joke... but it would be cool as pooh! Do any plans at all exist?

A 1/350 k'tinga would be sooooo cool. I thing just doing one with sets in the windows would be incredible too. REL... you rock! Do it baby!


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## drewid142 (Apr 23, 2004)

*that first scene..*

My favorite moment of ALL the Star Trek films is the first scene with three K'tinga in formation... the music was perfect... the ships looked EXACTLY right... that was the stuff.

...then the inspection scenes of the Enterprise... perrrrfect... then.. in my opinion... the film fell short.

My fave of the Star Trek films was the whale story.


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## Nova Designs (Oct 10, 2000)

OMG! You are my hero!!!


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Wow!


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## Guest (Sep 29, 2006)

It's big, it's Klingon, i'd call that 'nuff said.
Your a brave one REL, though i could have also said unbelivable glutton for punishment..oh i just did.

Splendid work of the first order !


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## Griffworks (Jun 24, 2002)

As I said elsewhere, I'm all for one of these! Thanks, REL!


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## REL (Sep 30, 2005)

Update.


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## Opus Penguin (Apr 19, 2004)

Very nice! I sure wish PL was able to produce this kit commercially.


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## Lloyd Collins (Sep 25, 2004)

WOW! That is ssooo sweet!


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## REL (Sep 30, 2005)

One more update for the night.


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## drewid142 (Apr 23, 2004)

*Wow baby!*

Lord REL... you are going to sell a bunch of these! I'm in for 2!


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

I hope that you plan to offer this kit for a while, as I will be in for more than one. Probably three or more.


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## REL (Sep 30, 2005)

Forgot one


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

Any chance you'll do a version minus the raised paneling, that could be easily done as a TOS style D-7?

I'm assuming you are adding the raised paneling to the smooth hull anyway, If you cast a few smooth tooling copies before doing the paneling, you could make two kits!!!

Yes, I know that somebody somewhere who may have compiled 10,000 pics of both ships might complain that one or the other(or BOTH for that matter) isn't perfect, but I'd love to see a D-7 kit that is then transformed into a K'Tinga.

Honestly, I might never buy the K-Tinga version, but seeing how the two evolved one from the other would be a monumental contribution to the genre.

No one expects that either would be perfect, though everything I've seen suggest that close study of the AMT D-7 minus the grillwork on the deflectors would give you pretty exact proportional dimensions for the D-7 TOS filming miniatures.


P.S. While the original windows were painted on, if you are going to be doing this in clear resin very very slightly sunken windows would be very helpful in doing masking in order to add interior lighting!


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## REL (Sep 30, 2005)

That would be cool, only the Ktinga and the D7 are completely different as far as the shape of the ship goes. So if I cast this one with no raised panelling it would simply be a smooth Ktinga. 

But, I was told the Phase II Ktinga only had scribed panel lines and no raised surface detailing, so that's a possibility if people are interested in that.


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## Opus Penguin (Apr 19, 2004)

If you do ever produce this as a kit I would be interested too depending on the cost.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

REL said:


> But, I was told the Phase II Ktinga only had scribed panel lines and no raised surface detailing, so that's a possibility if people are interested in that.


I could go for a smoothie K'tinga!


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## badwolf (Apr 20, 2006)

Mmmmmmm, a K'tinga smoothie. I wonder if they serve that at Quark's?


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

^^ :lol:

Welcome, badwolf, old friend! Great to see you here, sir! :wave:

(For those who don't know badwolf, he is a very talented model maker who does some absolutely exquisite paint jobs on his figures and spaceships.)

I hope you'll upload some pics into your gallery space on this forum for us to see.


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## Nova Designs (Oct 10, 2000)

badwolf said:


> Mmmmmmm, a K'tinga smoothie. I wonder if they serve that at Quark's?



That's funny right there!

Welcome to the forum badwolf! Hey is that a reference to the new Dr. Who?


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## Lou Dalmaso (Jul 13, 2004)

*hey guys*

I made a plating set for the 1000 scale D-7 to make a "Trials & Tribblations" version which is sorta K'Tinga-ish.

if REL wants to make a smoothy, I can enlarge the plates to make the Phase II version you're discussing


just a thought


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## Griffworks (Jun 24, 2002)

Do it, Lou! 



Is it done yet...?


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## drewid142 (Apr 23, 2004)

A smoothie would be cool, but I, for one, am psyched to get a K'tinga just like we saw in the opening scene of TMP... with all it's glorious details! GO REL GO!


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## Lou Dalmaso (Jul 13, 2004)

If he builds it, I will co... 

nah, that just doesn't sound good _at all _


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## REL (Sep 30, 2005)

Update.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

Griffworks said:


> Do it, Lou!
> 
> 
> 
> Is it done yet...?


 
I think the phrase you are searching for is:

"Make it so!" :lol:

Seriously though, a smoothie K'Tinga would be very desirable, REL.

I know some detailing on the neck etc are different between the K'Tinga and the D-7, but are the major contours so radically different that a smoothie could not be converted into a D-7?

Before I bother digging out my version from wherever I have it stashed, could you tell me if AMT's TMP K'Tinga was accurate compared to TMP filming miniature.

If it was done accurately I might spend some time study the differences between the AMT TOS D-7 and the AMT TMP K'Tinga.

But if AMT didn't make the K'Tinga accurately compared to the TMP filming miniature I won't bother.

Considering the amount of time you've put into this I figure you probably already know the answer as to how accurate the AMT TMP K'Tinga was vs the filming miniature.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

Lou Dalmaso said:


> I made a plating set for the 1000 scale D-7 to make a "Trials & Tribblations" version which is sorta K'Tinga-ish.
> 
> if REL wants to make a smoothy, I can enlarge the plates to make the Phase II version you're discussing
> 
> ...


Anybody have any Trials and Tribulations screen captures?
I haven't seen the episode in years, but I thought the panels were scribed into the hull rather then raised off of the main body.

Though the raised panels may have been so slight and subtle that my feeble brain is just remembering them that way. I just could swear I remember at the time thinking they did enraved lines so they could explain the non-appearance of the panels in TOS as the light never hitting the engraved lines at the right angle to show the depressions.

But again, I could be totally wrong and the panels were just ridiculously thin. Certainly wouldn't be the first time I've remembered something wrong.


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## Griffworks (Jun 24, 2002)

Chuck_P.R. said:


> I know some detailing on the neck etc are different between the K'Tinga and the D-7, but are the major contours so radically different that a smoothie could not be converted into a D-7?


Well, I'm not REL, didn't spend the night in a Holiday Inn Express nor play him on TV or in the Movies, but I've done some study comparisons in the past between the two, so hope you don't mind me chimin' in.... 

I'd say that "sure! You could do it!" but it wouldn't be an accurate D-7. Some of the contours really are that different, tho I wouldn't say "radically" so. If you know what you're looking for, tho, it's pretty obvious. I'm mostly going from memory, as I can't find my written notes (lame-arsed me never transcribed them to computer .txt files, it would seem!) but here are a few off the top of my head:

Shape of the "command bulb"
Angles on the secondary hull are a bit different
Nacelles on the D-7 are proportionally smaller 
Size of the "hangar deck" is a bit different between the two, mostly w/the _K'T'Inga's_ sitting a bit higher
Bridge module areas are shaped differently
The warp nacelle pylons are proportionally thicker on the D-7 (I think)



> Before I bother digging out my version from wherever I have it stashed, could you tell me if AMT's TMP K'Tinga was accurate compared to TMP filming miniature.


Fairly so. Better than the AMT Refit when compared to the actual TMP Refit Studio Model, tho they seem to share some of the same inaccuracies. 



> If it was done accurately I might spend some time study the differences between the AMT TOS D-7 and the AMT TMP K'Tinga.
> 
> But if AMT didn't make the K'Tinga accurately compared to the TMP filming miniature I won't bother.


 I wouldn't bother. You'd best be served comparing K'T'Inga studio model pics to the PL D-7, IMNSHO. From all I've seen, the PL D-7 is very true to the D-7 Studio Model, tho likely has one or two minor inconsistancies due to the fact it's not a hand-craft studio model. Once again, you can tell that Thomas Sasser was just as much a fan - more so in many instances! - as the rest of us and wanted to get it as close to 100% as the mold making process would allow. 


> Considering the amount of time you've put into this I figure you probably already know the answer as to how accurate the AMT TMP K'Tinga was vs the filming miniature.


It's a great representative of the Studio Model. However, don't "take it as the gospel" when making comparisons to the D-7.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Though definitely not a D7, it would still be neat to have a "smoothie" to go with the Phase II conversion of the PL 1/350th 1701.


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## Griffworks (Jun 24, 2002)

And ya know what else? I think there aren't even that many Trek fans who would actually notice the difference between the D-7 & _K'T'Inga_ if you painted this kit the same color as the TOS D-7 and decaled it the same.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

^^I agree!  

It would also make for a neat variation on a theme :thumbsup:


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## Lou Dalmaso (Jul 13, 2004)

Chuck_P.R. said:


> Anybody have any Trials and Tribulations screen captures?
> I haven't seen the episode in years, but I thought the panels were scribed into the hull rather then raised off of the main body.
> 
> Though the raised panels may have been so slight and subtle that my feeble brain is just remembering them that way. I just could swear I remember at the time thinking they did enraved lines so they could explain the non-appearance of the panels in TOS as the light never hitting the engraved lines at the right angle to show the depressions.
> ...


at the scale of the 350 K'Tinga, the added layer of plating _would _ just look ridiculously thin. enough to cast a shadow in harsh lighting and give the impression of a bit of surface detail. the TMP K'tinga's plating would be easily 3 or 4 times thicker per level of plating.

I think it would be a good alternative to scribing lines into a smoothy


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

Thanks, Griffworks!

I'll take any info I can get from any source I can trust, and on things Trek I know you are one guy who I feel I can trust 100%.

While none of us know everything what you do state as fact can be taken to the bank and you have the humility and honesty to admit when certain info is unknown or an educated guess.

Too many people in Trekdom these days approach discussing this stuff from the point of debate and right/wrong instead of just enjoying the avocation and sharing info without being supercilious about it.

Anyone else who has any info they are sure about please feel free to chime in.
REL, John P.?

On the points you listed as differences, Griff, I think the only one that would be the most difficult to adjust would be the secondary hull angle differences.

Could you, REL or anyone else elaborate on the secondary hull angle differences?

It seems the other differences like the command pod and higher hanger bay, and bigger engines could be addressed without an unreasonable amount of trouble.

The secondary hull angle difference might be another matter though, depending on what those differences are.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

Lou Dalmaso said:


> at the scale of the 350 K'Tinga, the added layer of plating _would _just look ridiculously thin. enough to cast a shadow in harsh lighting and give the impression of a bit of surface detail. the TMP K'tinga's plating would be easily 3 or 4 times thicker per level of plating.
> 
> I think it would be a good alternative to scribing lines into a smoothy


Or a kit that included a smoothie with the thin plates could be used so that the thin plating could be used as templates for scribing for those who want the scribed lines, glued on by those that want the thin plating, or totally left off by someone who didn't want to change the Jefferies smooth hull design.

Before all this aztecing craze became so chic I often considered the apparently seamless and smooth hulls of such large ships to represent a future in which the smoothness of the hull was just another indicator of the extent to which technology had progressed.

Before "aztecing" I looked apon huge vessels manufactured without apparent visible seams to be a display of advanced technology.

It seems to me that Jefferies could have very easily made plating visible in order to improve the sense of scale one got from viewing the model.

The fact that he didn't always suggested to me that the smooth design was intentional and meant to display superior technology.

Smooth, seamless design had been used both before and since to suggest superior technology in the 50's and 60's in flying saucer and other sci-fi movies. 

The lack of perceivable/openable doors, entryways, platings on alien ships/flying saucers, etc prior to TOS and since often was used to reflect very advanced technology supposedly light years ahead of our current day abilities to understand.

To this day it's sometimes still used in sci-fi flicks to suggest advanced and/or alien technology.

I'll be the first to admit that this is just purely a guess as to Jefferies intentions.

But what I I don't think is debatable is that if he wanted to, Jefferies *could have used* plating, scribed or raised lines or other such tactics to make the ships look larger in scale.

*The fact that he didn't* leads me to the (admitted) assumption that the smooth designs used in TOS were chosen intentionally.

Again, I'm guessing Jefferies wanted to convey superior technology via a seamless design astetic

The seamless design* choice* may have been due to some entirely different reason, it could have been just an artistic/astetic decision.

But I don't think Jefferies failed to add aztecing, plating, scribed lines or raised paneling simply out of laziness. 

I doubt budget problems were issues either, it doesn't take tons of time and money to at least scribe lines.

I'm always looked at the sleek, smooth TOS design style as an integral to the design style of the ships - *a unique and intentional Jefferies stylistic signature.*

I've never been able to agree with those who have argued that Jefferies would have added scaling features but just didn't and left them smooth due to time and budget constraints.

He could have used cheap, quick and dirty tricks like scribing panels had he wanted to convey large vessels built from thousands of little plates put together tiny piece by tiny piece.

But he didn't.

Jefferies left us wondering how such huge vessels might be built without any clearly visible assembly points/subdivisions.

I think Jefferies did that intentionally, but that's just my own personal opinion.


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## Griffworks (Jun 24, 2002)

Chuck_P.R. said:


> Thanks, Griffworks!


Sure thing. Glad to help out when I can. And again, that was from memory, so there are likely things I got wrong. I can't even find the CD w/the different D-7 and _K'T'Inga_ pics I had at one point. REL or Thomas Sasser I know have made studies of the two - tho I don't know how close a comparison study either have done - , as have one or two others here who have accurized their AMT/ERTL _K'T'Inga_ kits. Hopefully some of those folks who have good, solid notes will chime in w/some better info for you.


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## REL (Sep 30, 2005)

Here's a composite of the ktinga and the TOS showing the differences.


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## Griffworks (Jun 24, 2002)

Whoops! I see I got it backwards on the nacelles issue. I had said previously that the nacelles on the D-7 were proportionally smaller, but they're actually smaller on the _K'T'Inga_! Duh! :freak:


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## REL (Sep 30, 2005)

I'll get the pics back up sometime today.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

REL said:


> I'll get the pics back up sometime today.


Whew! I thought I was going blind!


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## REL (Sep 30, 2005)

Here they are.


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## Boxster (Aug 11, 2005)

This is another must-have! Darn, which version, which version! 

I like the green one but the gray one looks sweeter with all the details that the green one lacks. Anyway, looking very good every step there R man!

B


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## beeblebrox (Jul 30, 2003)

Hey! Lookie! Boxter's here! Where ya been? Did ya bring us presents? :hat:


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## Lloyd Collins (Sep 25, 2004)

REL, the ship is looking perfect so far. Even without the plating, it looks menacing. It is going to look good next to the Refit.


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## REL (Sep 30, 2005)

Thank you, I haven't worked on it as much as I'd like this week as I'm trying to get a build done and get other things cast but I'll get back on it again soon.


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## REL (Sep 30, 2005)

Griffworks said:


> Whoops! I see I got it backwards on the nacelles issue. I had said previously that the nacelles on the D-7 were proportionally smaller, but they're actually smaller on the _K'T'Inga_! Duh! :freak:


I thought they were the same thing too at first but apparently they're way different, there's things on both of them I like. I like the nacelle's on the k'tinga better though.


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## Nosirrag (Apr 26, 2005)

Hot diggity. As they say in FineScale Modeller "A good model in a much needed subject."


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## Boxster (Aug 11, 2005)

beeblebrox said:


> Hey! Lookie! Boxter's here! Where ya been? Did ya bring us presents? :hat:


Hey BB!!! Good to be back! Presents? Darn, I must have ate them on the way back.  .

Oh, there are 3 version of the Ktinga. Just saw the pic attached a page back. The one at the bottom is which version? Anyway, can't wait for you to get back to this one, Rel!

B


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## Richard Compton (Nov 21, 2000)

Had any more time to work on this REL?


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## REL (Sep 30, 2005)

I've suspended it for now because I'm doing a build up of the EE for a client that has to be finished by the first week in Nov. I'll start on it again as soon as that's done. My wife has taken over the kit production completely now, everything, even the resin casting so that'll give me a lot mroe time to work on new stuff.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Your production staff has doubled in size? Great to hear! :thumbsup:


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## REL (Sep 30, 2005)

Well she has put on a little weight but I wouldn't say she's doubled in size. :tongue: 

(I'm glad she doesn't read these boards)


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

^^Now, that's *NOT* what I said! 

I don't want your wife to hate me! (If she *were* to ever read my post.) :jest:


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