# Any Word Recently?



## JeffG (May 10, 2004)

Alright you sci-fi modeling know it alls! Anybody know if there's any further news on the long awaited and mentioned 1/350th scale TOS Enterprise? Still can't wait to get my mits on that one.:thumbsup:


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## JGG1701 (Nov 9, 2004)

Probably best thing to do would ask the source:
http://www.round2models.com/contact
-Jim


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## Magesblood (May 12, 2008)

we'll know when they know.


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## Rattrap (Feb 23, 1999)

Most of the delay is a bean-counting issue: "Do we spend a ton of money tooling up one kit for a relatively limited audience, or do we spread it over a number of releases that will earn less per kit but sell many more copies."

Personally, I want them to get the big TOS-E out so they can get to work on my 1/350 Movie Miranda (though I'd happily settle for a 1/1000 at the same quality level as the TMP-E).


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## JeffG (May 10, 2004)

Can't wait to see what type of electronic and aftermarket goodies will be available for it whenever it's released. Thanks for the info fellas.


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

I wouldn't refer to the original _Enterprise_ modelers and enthusiasts as a "relatively limited audience". The majority of these folks are of the older demographic, most of whom were around during the original run of the show, and have plenty of disposable income to "waste" on buying multiples of this kit, were it to be released.

I believe that even the naysayers with small display shelves who are more comfortable with the little snap kits would make the effort to grab at least one of these huge kits when they are out. I remember the same argument a few years ago with the 1/350 refit kit, with so many people claiming "Oh, it's too big for my little shelf". How many of these folks _really_ didn't buy a big refit kit?

Just look at the rapid and sold-out sales of the Master Replicas display model, which went for anywhere from $1200 - $2000 apiece. Even at $100 a pop, Round 2 would be sold out of the kits them in no time, and have to release many additional runs of kits right away just to keep up with the demand!

I'm not picking on you, Rattrap. But I think that there is a misrepresentation out there of just how popular and successful this kit would be, and how numerous and passionate the proponents of this kit are. I just wanted to make a point. I would love to see a large _Reliant_, too, and Klingon ships in that scale, as well as the little 1/1000 snap kits of ships. But, us folks who have been around the longest, and whose 'grail' kit has been continually passed over for smaller kits or seemingly "hot" properties, are frustrated to no end with the situation. We would just like to have some time to be able to enjoy the release of this kit, as some of us are now entering (or in) our golden years, and don't have an eternity to wait.


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## JGG1701 (Nov 9, 2004)

Trek Ace said:


> . We would just like to have some time to be able to enjoy the release of this kit, as some of us are now entering (or in) our golden years, and don't have an eternity to wait.


Geesh , you make us sound so..............................
V
V
V
V
V
.............OLD.
-Jim


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## Tiberious (Nov 20, 2001)

On the positive side, us older people are just about the only ones taking the time to build models anymore. Kids (IN GENERAL) are going for the pre-built, pre-painted, screw together or boxed items. As my eyes strain more and my hands shake, I think I understand them. I'm just too stubborn to quit


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## Ductapeforever (Mar 6, 2008)

Round 2 has hinted on their site a slight hope for the end of the year, but it is a very slim chance. Mid-2011 is more realistic. We'll know more at I-Hobby in October.


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## ccbor (May 27, 2003)

JGG1701 said:


> Geesh , you make us sound so..............................
> V
> V
> V
> ...


What speak up?! dang children respect your elders!

;P

bor


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## Maritain (Jan 16, 2008)

I have got about 4 of the 1/350 NX-01's and about the same of the 1/350 and I suspect it will be the same for the up and coming 1/350 TOS Ent.


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## JGG1701 (Nov 9, 2004)

ccbor said:


> What speak up?! dang children respect your elders!
> 
> ;P
> 
> bor


Careful now, I'm as old as you are.
-Jim


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## JeffG (May 10, 2004)

Quite frankly, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the 350th TOS Enterprise outsells the excellent refit kit. Same scale, not nearly as problematic of a paint scheme, and the ship that started it all. Not to mention, with all the E's incarnations, I feel one of the most aesthetically pleasing of the Enterprise's designs still.


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

The older I get, the more I appreciate larger-scale models.

I guess if you're a kid in your 20's or 30's, then having to wait several more years, or even another decade for the release of this kit is no big deal. You have all the time in the world. But for some of us, perhaps a select few, sooner is definitely better.


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## jheilman (Aug 30, 2001)

Trek Ace said:


> I wouldn't refer to the original _Enterprise_ modelers and enthusiasts as a "relatively limited audience".
> 
> I'm not picking on you, Rattrap. But I think that there is a misrepresentation out there of just how popular and successful this kit would be, and how numerous and passionate the proponents of this kit are.


To be fair, I believe Rattrap was presenting a quote from Round 2 discussing the "relatively limited audience."

So, just how successful was the 1/350 refit? Anyone have any stats on that one? I also believe a 1/350 TOS E would be even more successful than the refit kit. I've wanted an accurate TOS E kit for decades. The 1/1000 wasn't bad, but too small for my tastes. The AMT scale would have been better, but 1/350 will just be amazing. I really hope they move forward with this. 

I may not be as advanced in years as some here (but probably more than most), but I do share Trek Ace's desire that sooner would be better. This is a kit that I know I would start immediately and finish. While my refit sits in a box because I'm way too intimidated to start that complex paint job, the TOS E is something I feel I can do justice to and I want to see it finished even more than the refit.


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## derric1968 (Jun 13, 2003)

Trek Ace said:


> How many of these folks _really_ didn't buy a big refit kit?


I didn't buy one. I waited patiently for the 1/1000 version. I have a 1/350 NX-01 collecting dust in my closet right now. I regret buying it. It's too dang big!

But for the sake of all you who want a 1/350 TOS-E, I hope Round 2 will make your dreams come true.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

When was the 1/350 NX-01 released? That's how long I've been waiting for a 1/350 TOS E. I'm 53 now. I plan on retiring in 7 years, at which point money will get tighter and I'll have to stop impulse-buying lots of models. My eyesight is getting worse all the time - I have to wear reading glasses AND a visor to paint cockpits now. I'm of an age prone to strokes and heart attacks... In short, I want one while I can still see it, build it, _lift _it. :lol:


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## KUROK (Feb 2, 2004)

John P said:


> When was the 1/350 NX-01 released? That's how long I've been waiting for a 1/350 TOS E. I'm 53 now. I plan on retiring in 7 years, at which point money will get tighter and I'll have to stop impulse-buying lots of models. My eyesight is getting worse all the time - I have to wear reading glasses AND a visor to paint cockpits now. I'm of an age prone to strokes and heart attacks... In short, I want one while I can still see it, build it, _lift _it. :lol:


JohnP, can I have some of your kits when you kick the bucket?


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## spindrift (Apr 16, 2005)

Oh so now we open this can of worms again, eh?
So R2 is saying the kit will be for a relatively limited audience?
Handwriting on the wall, guys, they aren't going to do it. That has been my feeling since they started the delay tactics. You can't tell me honestly as of July 2010 they have NOT determined their releases or scheduled what to work on for 2011, can you?
Now we will have a wall of silence for as long as they can delay the official word, "well, someday..."
SIGH
I really hope I'm wrong and I will be the first to congradulate and support the TOS E 1/350 kit.
We'll see...


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## JeffG (May 10, 2004)

Were it not so tragic, it would almost be comical that the powers that be actually need to mull over whether or not to make this kit. Now, I actually like the JJPrise and in fact nearly all of the Trek designs, but this is 'THE' Enterprise. Maybe I'm not getting something but I'd think this would be a no brainer. This deserves to be a big beautiful model with a landing bay and Galileo shuttle just as much as the refit. Guess all we can do is keep our fingers crossed.


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## ClubTepes (Jul 31, 2002)

Jeff,

I talked to Jamie at Round2 for quite a while at Wonderfest.

The kit is still in the "we have to get it approved" phase.

Gary Kerr supplied lots of excellent drawings which is the first step.

One of the things that I love about these guys is that they use WF as a polling place.
They had a poll that they will use to show to management that we want that one big kit rather than a few small ones.

Thats the gist. The 1/350 E will take up an entire years tooling budget.
So they need to show proof to the bean counters of the demand.

Serious parts breakdown had not been started as of WF.

BTW: a design idea of mine may (may) be incorporated into the kit.
When I explained it to him, Jamie thought enough of it to get out his folder and we drew it out together. It has to do with how the nacelle struts lock into the secondary hull to prevent sag and misalignment.
We'll see.


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## JeffG (May 10, 2004)

That sounds great. Would the proposed strut integrity allow room for a hanger interior?


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## HabuHunter32 (Aug 22, 2009)

I can't wait for this kit! The fact that Round2 is having financial reservations is quite frustrating to say the least! When Polar Lights had the same reservations about the profitability of the 1/350 refit they were too far along on the project and it did get released. I think that time has proven that was a wise decision and the 350 refit has sold quite well and continues to do so even in this negitive economy. 

The big question is if it's again too late for Round2 to abandon this project or still early enough the in process that were all out of luck this time! I sure hope not! It's one thing to wait for more than 40 years for a dream kit to be announced. It's quite another to have the kit announced and abandoned by the producer!

My wife says "the power of positive thinking" so thats what I'm doing. Thinking positive! Yes..it will happen. Yes It will happen! Man..I hope so...


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

KUROK said:


> JohnP, can I have some of your kits when you kick the bucket?


I left my wife instructions to post a list here and at SSM.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

HabuHunter32 said:


> The big question is if it's again too late for Round2 to abandon this project or still early enough the in process that were all out of luck this time! I sure hope not! It's one thing to wait for more than 40 years for a dream kit to be announced. It's quite another to have the kit announced and abandoned by the producer!



Oh, it's not too late to cancel if they haven't cut any molds yet, and it sounds like they're nowhere near ready to cut molds. The only reason RC2 didn't cancel the refit was because it was already tooled when they bought PL, and even then our friend Tom Sasser had to remind them of the fact.

Hey, ya know what I'd like to see in the 1/350 TOS? A removable bridge dome with a detailed bridge inside. Facing forward.


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## ClubTepes (Jul 31, 2002)

^^^^^

I have absolutely no doubts about Jamie and the guys desire to do the kit.

Yes Jeff, the idea totally allows room for the Hangar deck AND the bowling alley.


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## spindrift (Apr 16, 2005)

How will they PROVE to the bean counters that it will sell???? If they want proof, kit isn't going to happen. 
We are a long way away from the kit if all that exists are drawings. A LONG way away even if it were approved today.
This is incredibly frustrating but I guess we can sit back and wait till the official word comes through...


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

I have had the misfortune to have to deal with bean counters and their mentality through most of my life. It is sad that often those who control the purse strings are also those who are usually totally lacking in vision, imagination or creativity. I have no doubt about the creative folks within the model division at Round 2's desire to follow through with the production of this kit. Any criticism or frustration that I may express toward the company is focused solely on the managing decision makers whose only focus is "the bottom line". 

I can understand funds being tight, and that producing smaller kits and repops is certainly cheaper than a new large, complicated and detailed kit. I get that. That's where visionary leadership comes in with the decision making process. That's what impresses me with companies like Moebius and Pegasus. Leadership with passion and imagination who prefer to look upward and outward, taking huge risks and gambling on the success of a product, rather than always "playing it safe" and looking down at the bottom line.


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## irishtrek (Sep 17, 2005)

I too am waiting for TOS E in 350.
I would also like to build one along with the refit and donate them both to the USS Ranger museum when it opens, hopefully in a couple of years.
after all the Ranger stood in for the Enterprise in STIV and there is an effort underway to bring the ship to Portland as a museum/tourist attraction.


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## spindrift (Apr 16, 2005)

Trek Ace said:


> I have had the misfortune to have to deal with bean counters and their mentality through most of my life. It is sad that often those who control the purse strings are also those who are usually totally lacking in vision, imagination or creativity. I have no doubt about the creative folks within the model division at Round 2's desire to follow through with the production of this kit. Any criticism or frustration that I may express toward the company is focused solely on the managing decision makers whose only focus is "the bottom line".
> 
> I can understand funds being tight, and that producing smaller kits and repops is certainly cheaper than a new large, complicated and detailed kit. I get that. That's where visionary leadership comes in with the decision making process. That's what impresses me with companies like Moebius and Pegasus. Leadership with passion and imagination who prefer to look upward and outward, taking huge risks and gambling on the success of a product, rather than always "playing it safe" and looking down at the bottom line.


Well said. I thought Tom Lowe was a man with vision and willing to take chances. The ironic thing is THIS kit is not a gamble- it would SELL like crazy for YEARS....seems a sure thing as there can be to me!


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## fire91bird (Feb 3, 2008)

Reminds me of the stories about Aurora getting tons of requests to produce a Jupiter 2 and still not seeing the potential.


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

Well, from my experience, the _squeaky wheel_ usually _gets the grease_. That is to say, waiting quietly will only make them believe that no one is waiting for this model. After all, waiting quietly is most likely why this kit isn't coming out in 2010.

So while some at Round 2 may not like us bringing this subject up (and may even take any interest negatively)... the number crunchers there will see any show of interest as there being an audience for this model.

Then again, it shouldn't be that hard to show number crunchers that there is a lot of people interested in a 1/350 scale TOS Enterprise. One need only point to threads on this site as a gauge of the interest in the subject...
 MR TOS E FEP pics (379 replies, 20,722 views)
 AW Studios- 1/350 TOS Constitution  (342 replies, 20,258 views)
 The great Unobtainium disaster? (130 replies, 8,360 views)
 Tos Enterprise Round2 News..... (166 replies, 7,795 views)
 Master replicas TOS enterprise shipping (151 replies, 7,453 views)
 Round 2 pics from Wonderfest 2010 (150 replies, 6,734 views)
 Studio scale TOS "E" from Master Replicas (117 replies, 5,697 views)
 Round 2 is working on a 1/350 TOS (87 replies, 4,617 views)
 AW Studios New 1/350 TOS Constitution Project (75 replies, 4,596 views)
 New Star Trek models to be released...including a Polar Lights 1/350th TOS Enterprise (67 replies, 4,390 views)
And one could add to that the fact that for every Master Replicas and Unobtainium model sold, there were likely 4 people who would have bought one if the price was between $100-$150.

Actually, what is funny is that there would be anyone thinking that this kit wouldn't sell well. Because as I see it, the real danger is that the first run of this kit will be too small (considering the number of modelers who will buy multiple copies of this kit to hoard it worrying that it'll disappear shortly after it's release).

Do the numbers matter? Sure. What is surprising is that this type of numbers argument hasn't yet been made to the people at Round 2 that have the final say.


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## mach7 (Mar 25, 2002)

Just a few thoughts, and my opinion only so worth nothing.

Given:
Money must be tight at R2. Understandable in the current economy.
Repops are easy, sell well, and are (relatively) low dollar investment. They have a large stock of molds to repop.
The BIG E would take a large chunk of cash and time to bring to market (R2 have told us this)
They are being very tight lipped about the progress of this kit.

Then:

We probably will not see the BIG E in 2011.
Probably not until the economy turns around.
Probably not until most, if not all the Repops are done.
Every year we wait the cost probably goes up 10% due to the rising costs of business in China. I would estimate the cost now if it were out around $120 retail (based on the cost of the refit repop and the cost of the Moebius Seaview and J2)

Now I love R2, I love building the old repops, But It seems to me that all the stars are lining up against a 1/350 Enterprise in my useful life time (next 10 years given the rate of deterioration of my eyesight). I'm not complaining. R2 needs to stay in business, but they have to know how well this kit will sell.
TOS always out sells all other Trek and the AMT TOS Enterprise has been the best selling model kit ever!


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## ClubTepes (Jul 31, 2002)

Shaw said:


> Well, from my experience, the _squeaky wheel_ usually _gets the grease_. That is to say, waiting quietly will only make them believe that no one is waiting for this model. After all, waiting quietly is most likely why this kit isn't coming out in 2010.
> 
> So while some at Round 2 may not like us bringing this subject up (and may even take any interest negatively)... the number crunchers there will see any show of interest as there being an audience for this model.
> 
> ...


This is a nice collection of threads. You should show it to Jamie at R2.

And again. Everyone should direct their wishes directly to R2.
I'm sure they are more likely to pay attention to what comes into their own mailbox, than spend time searching the web for what other boards say.


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

Shaw said:


> Well, from my experience, the _squeaky wheel_ usually _gets the grease_. That is to say, waiting quietly will only make them believe that no one is waiting for this model. After all, waiting quietly is most likely why this kit isn't coming out in 2010.
> 
> Actually, what is funny is that there would be anyone thinking that this kit wouldn't sell well. Because as I see it, the real danger is that the first run of this kit will be too small (considering the number of modelers who will buy multiple copies of this kit to hoard it worrying that it'll disappear shortly after it's release).


Thank you, Shaw.

My thoughts exactly.


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## spindrift (Apr 16, 2005)

Tell Moebius and Pegasus that the economy is bad and kits aren't selling. That argument doesn't hold water. Moebius caters to even a smaller niche market IMO than Star Trek /Round 2 does. Moebius is going all out with new licences and brand new kits constantly. Jupiter 2. I've said enough. That particular kit surely cost as much or more than a new tool Enterprise. Must be that _selective_ bad economy hitting poor R2....
Round 2 continues to announce lots of new repops with some new work done on them. Well so I guess these kits don't cost a dime to manufacture and distribute?? Ask Frank at Moebiius just how expensive even the boxes and instructions are, not to mention the marketing.
These excuses for R2 are getting repetitive and most tiring....


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## Dr. Brad (Oct 5, 1999)

I don't know all the behind the scenes stuff at R2. I do know one thing. They're not out to mess with us. They're not being spiteful, and I don't think, well, I don't think Jamie and company are making excuses (sorry Spindrift - you and I might be using that differently). They're just trying to make the best decision for the company (and, indirectly, us). It is their money, and I know and accept that the people with the money might make a different decision than I would. 

I really hope they make this kit. I had three 1/350 refit Enterprise kits - sold em all, because in the end I knew I'd never get to them, and that I wouldn't have room to display them. But this kit - I'd make room for it. But if they don't, Let's just hope for the best, and not be too vitriolic if it doesn't work out the way we'd like it too.  I'll try too.


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## trekman (Apr 2, 2007)

Tired of wishing....Hmmmm in an alternate reality Moebius releases TOS 1/350 in 2012!!!! And I just got my re-cloned pupils from Sears. Yeah they're retinac 5's.


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

Dr. Brad said:


> They're not out to mess with us. They're not being spiteful...


Actually... that is the problem with all threads on this subject.

Too many people read criticism in the wrong way. I haven't read every post in this thread, but the idea that most of us think that any one at Round 2 is plotting against this model or that they are working from some malicious intent is way off the mark.

They are (in my opinion) making mistakes. They are making them honestly, they are making them believing they are doing the right thing, but they are (again, in my opinion) making them none the less.

To be sure, I make dozens of mistakes a month... but none of them are done out of spite or with malicious intent. And I don't believe that type of thing of others when they make mistakes.

So why don't we avoid clouding the discussion by bringing that into this. Because if they screw this up, I doubt anyone here will believe they did it on purpose. :thumbsup:


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## BlackbirdCD (Oct 31, 2003)

Shaw said:


> MR TOS E FEP pics (379 replies, 20,722 views)
> AW Studios- 1/350 TOS Constitution  (342 replies, 20,258 views)
> The great Unobtainium disaster? (130 replies, 8,360 views)
> Tos Enterprise Round2 News..... (166 replies, 7,795 views)
> ...


But Round2 knows it's just the same few hundred guys coming back to view these pages


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## spindrift (Apr 16, 2005)

Shaw said:


> Actually... that is the problem with all threads on this subject.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well put, Shaw!

I am not trying to "bad talk" R2- if you read that as a attack on them you haven't read any of my posts on the subject. I think R2 is doing a great job on their reissues, the Vulcan shuttle is so much better now. Their 1/1000 refit is a nice kit. No complaints. Point is they are just reissues and alot of us have stacks of old Ertl product bought at close out or next to nothing on Ebay. The buying audience for repops is limited. NEW kits are needed. New 1/350 E would be a huge sustaining seller, that is my point. Moebius and Pegasus continue to give us new kits. Moebius gives us new and reissued kits. Why is R2 so strapped to do one major new kit and (apparently) having an agonizing time trying to justify it???


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## Joeysaddress (Jun 16, 2006)

I just went to the R2 site and hit the contact button. Simple email sent stating that I want to see the 1:350 TOS E come to pass. Won't you please do the same? Thanks!


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## Dr. Brad (Oct 5, 1999)

Shaw said:


> Actually... that is the problem with all threads on this subject.
> 
> Too many people read criticism in the wrong way. I haven't read every post in this thread, but the idea that most of us think that any one at Round 2 is plotting against this model or that they are working from some malicious intent is way off the mark.
> 
> ...


I suppose you're right about that.


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## Zathros (Dec 21, 2000)

*If you guys recall :

It was the same baloney when everyone in 2001, were clamoring to Polar Lights to do the Big Frankie ..thier reply was to roll thier eyes and say :" do you know how much the tooling would be??..not worth it..or that old BULL S**T standard ": it would have no mass appeal"..the fact that they consistently fail to understand or grasp is that none of these kinds of kits will ever have any "mass appeal"..I think personally that the TOS 350 enterprise would sell very well indeed..it would be the closest to "mass appeal " that PL would ever get from a pop culture kit..seems to me that perhaps Tom lowe has lost a bit of his willingness 
to do what he always did best: take a chance..only a certain amount of these kinds of kits will ever sell...no one can corner the market because the simple fact is that the market is not big enough to corner..

Z

*


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## Tiberious (Nov 20, 2001)

Honestly guys, they'll do what they need to do to keep in business. And if they don't, we're the ones who lose the kits that they have done for us thus far and those they'll do for us in the future. I'd love a 1:350 TOS Enterprise (though I have a MR Enterprise, which eases the pain a bit) but it's more important that they stay in business for all the other models they make for us. If it's not smart in a business sense, it has nothing to do with Tom's guts or willingness, it has to do with business survival in a weak and shrinking market. 

Keep buying and keep asking, it's all we can do.

Tib


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## KUROK (Feb 2, 2004)

BlackbirdCD said:


> But Round2 knows it's just the same few hundred guys coming back to view these pages



I can see that you "get it"...but don't say that too loud...I want them to do this kit!


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## Magesblood (May 12, 2008)

mach7 said:


> Just a few thoughts, and my opinion only so worth nothing.
> 
> Given:
> Money must be tight at R2. Understandable in the current economy.
> ...


do you write basic?


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## Atemylunch (Jan 16, 2006)

Tiberious said:


> Honestly guys, they'll do what they need to do to keep in business. And if they don't, we're the ones who lose the kits that they have done for us thus far and those they'll do for us in the future. I'd love a 1:350 TOS Enterprise (though I have a MR Enterprise, which eases the pain a bit) but it's more important that they stay in business for all the other models they make for us. If it's not smart in a business sense, it has nothing to do with Tom's guts or willingness, it has to do with business survival in a weak and shrinking market.
> 
> Keep buying and keep asking, it's all we can do.
> 
> Tib


They have announced that they want to do it. But they also said something about not being able to get the financing. 
The model is somewhere in the design process, that can take some time. 

Making styrene models isn't anything like garage kits, it's very expensive. They can't just do it on a whim, machining a set of dies(molds) for something the size of a 350 e could run far more than a 100k. And you need more than one set(not sure if they do that, you can get away with one set). 

The only reason they are repoping old kits is they have the dies. Like Tiberious said they want to stay in business. That is a very hard thing to do these days, people and businesses are saving money. They are all bracing for the tax hit next year.


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

BlackbirdCD said:


> But Round2 knows it's just the same few hundred guys coming back to view these pages


Perhaps. But, demographically, each one of us few hundred may represent a thousand or more other modelers who feel the same way.


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## mach7 (Mar 25, 2002)

Magesblood said:


> do you write basic?


Ha! 

Not for a LOOOONG time. 

It kind of stays with you though.


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## Edge (Sep 5, 2003)

Atemylunch said:


> They have announced that they want to do it. But they also said something about not being able to get the financing.
> The model is somewhere in the design process, that can take some time.
> 
> Making styrene models isn't anything like garage kits, it's very expensive. They can't just do it on a whim, machining a set of dies(molds) for something the size of a 350 e could run far more than a 100k. And you need more than one set(not sure if they do that, you can get away with one set).
> ...


Dug this up in regards to financing:

OAK BROOK, Ill.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--June 7, 2004

Playing Mantis, based in Mishawaka, Indiana, designs and markets collectible vehicle replicas under the Johnny Lightning(R) and Polar Lights(R) brands and collectible figures under the Memory Lane(TM) brand. Playing Mantis' products are primarily sold at mass merchandising, hobby, craft, drug and grocery chains. In 2003, Playing Mantis' net sales were $28.5 million and estimated operating income excluding depreciation, inventory rationalization costs, certain private company expenses and duplicative professional fees was $2.7 million (see attached schedule). The transaction is an asset purchase with an effective date of June 1, 2004, which was signed after the market close on Friday and is expected to be funded today. The purchase agreement calls for closing consideration of $17.0 million of cash and $2.5 million in shares of RC2's common stock. Additional cash consideration of up to $4.0 million may be earned based on achieving net sales and margin targets for 2004 and net sales targets for 2005. Tom Lowe, founder, President and sole shareholder of Playing Mantis, will remain as an executive officer with RC2 and will receive all of the stock consideration. 

---
I don't know how much Mr. Lowe had to pay to get Round 2 back from RC2 but $17 million in cash would finance a lot of model kit tooling.

Just saying...


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## getter weevil (May 20, 2010)

I just find it odd that that Round 2 would even talk about a 350th TOS E if they did not have some plan to make one. Why even bother with something that if not delivered would generate such ill will in a customer base. Based on that alone Round 2 would have to have some plan in place to actually make thar big old dish plate with cigar engines.

However if my vague memory serves me correctly back when Polar lights was around there was talk about this 350th kit like it was going to happen fairly soon but got postponed or canceled due to the Polar Lights sale to was it Racing Champions(forget the name of the company). Anyway I recall before the proverbial dog solid waste material hit the fan, there was all this talk about "everyone had to buy the Polar Lights stuff so the Big E could get made". I guess the idea was to convince the new owners of Polar lights that it would be financially a good thing to make the big e. But of course no Big E got made at that time. I think some folks might think this is the same song and dance from before and are thinking why buy a bunch of repops they already got a bunch of in hopes of getting a Big E kit. Perhaps my recollection is not entirely factual but I seem to remember the general gist of things.

But I do find it odd that a company like Moebius can pump out new tools on new and large kits at an almost break neck pace even in a troubled economy. Round 2 has only had like one completely new tool kit the Refit 1k which is a nice kit, but compared to sheer numbers of moebius new kits...makes me wonder what is going on at Round 2. I know I sound like a conspiracy guy, but I am trying not to be. I am asking why a new company like Moebius can make so much more new product than Round 2. I have posted this question a few times and no one seems to have any good reasons why. Is it pure financing that is an issue? Is it really that simple.

This situation is sort of like asking a cat which can of catfood it wants for dinner. The cat can't read but it can compare. When I compare the number of new cans of catfood from Moebius to the cans from Round 2 it makes seems like a big difference.

If anyone has any good theories on this please share.

I got a cat here that wants to eat and is confused


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## mach7 (Mar 25, 2002)

getter weevil.

I don't know for sure, but I would bet credits to navy beans that the reason is: 

Leverage.

How much $$$ was borrowed to buy R2? What are the finance payments?

I bet ( but don't know) that Moebius has much lower overhead and that translates into more capital to invest in kits.


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## actias (May 19, 2003)

... Not to mention the kit was announced and said to be approved from "upstairs" in 2008 for a 2010 release!


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## Zathros (Dec 21, 2000)

*In my opinion, based on the numbers, and the history of PL...the funds are there..its just a decision that has to be made..a classic star trek license is a license to make money....

Z
*


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## KUROK (Feb 2, 2004)

After 2008, the banks are not lending money as easily to improve their balance sheets. That could be a major factor in this delay!


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## Atemylunch (Jan 16, 2006)

The word around the street is model sales are not going well. 
That doesn't mean product isn't moving, just not at the pace it used to be.

Something else to think about PL/T2 no longer has the number of retail outlets they did at their peak. That's more of an observation on my part. Stores like Target and Toys R Us no longer carry models, the large chains have a huge effect on the market. They have to supply product to their stores which means huge orders, at least when compared to the local hobby shop. 

It's my understanding that production runs are smaller, which is part of the factor in unit price(besides petroleum). And production costs are not going down. Edge said 17 mil could buy a lot of models, well yes and no. Manufacturing is an expensive business, a set of dies(molds) for the injection mold process can run from $5000 to millions of dollars. That doesn't include design costs, which can add up really fast. After that you need to pay for the production run, which is a cost that T2 has to absorb until wholesalers/retailers pay for the product. During that time T2 has to pay for the licensees, create marketing materials, prep packaging, line up warehouse space and shipping, and pay the sales guys to move the product. To make matters worse they have to pay for office and staff(if they work that way). 

I would say the turnaround time for any of these models would be anywhere from 1.5 to 3 years. Which is a long time to pay for a loan without any money coming in. Which makes it difficult enough to get a loan, how would you explain to somebody(a bank) who has no interest in models, could you guys(bank) give me money to develop one. 

Since T2 needs money they are selling what they have on hand. It's a lot easier to get loans for things that have been made before. They have a track record they can say sales for the AMT TOS E has been solid for x number of years. That a banker can understand. Plus updating a product is a heck of a lot easier(and cheaper) than making one from scratch. This makes good business sense. 

Something we have to keep in mind a 350 TOS E would be a major seller, I think most of us would buy more than 2:thumbsup:. But that may not equate into big sales numbers for T2, the sci-fi market is a very very very small market. Which is something I don't think people realize. These companies have to make money on product to stay in business.


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## fire91bird (Feb 3, 2008)

Well, since we're engaging in speculation, let me offer some. The fact that model sales is off is old news. In the last few years, the models companies have restructured and refocused on the new reality. Apart from military subjects, most models released these days are subjects aimed at modelers of a certain age. Assuming this age group is now the current target demographic, can you think of a single subject with greater recognition than the TOS Enterprise? If the 1/350 Enterprise is produced, I think you would see a considerable percentage of existing modelers of all subjects purchasing the kit along with a significant number of former and non modelers also making the purchase. It has far wider appeal than the Jupiter 2 and that kit seems to be pretty successful. (That it is a superior kit certainly doesn't hurt.) Granted, Sci Fi as a subject is dwarfed by military subjects, but Round 2 doesn't do much (if any) of that, so I assume Sci Fi is a pretty significant market for them. For the current target audience, I think a 1/350 Enterprise is the closest to a sure thing.

What's T2, by the way?


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Who's T2?

And what makes ya think banks have never loaned money to develop a project that may take years? What do they care as long as you promise to pay them back?


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## spindrift (Apr 16, 2005)

I've asked why Moebius and even a really small company like Pegasus keeps releasing new tool kits. Why is R2 so strapped to get one new major tool kit done? I am impressed by the proto pics of their new 1/25 Batmobile, though.
In any case I love what R2 is doing on their licenses and they are definately doing good stuff. I just can't fathom why they even have to deliberate that much on a new 350th E....baffles me and thus the whole frustration story sets in.


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

I don't understand it at all.

If anything at all could be considered a "sure thing" for a large, detailed 1/350 science fiction kit, the original _Enterprise_ would be it. What subject could possibly be more iconic than that?

The original AMT kit was a hit from day one, and is still considered to be one of the best-selling kits, if not THE best-selling kit, of _any_ subject of all time.

I've certainly never seen the 1/1000 PL release from 2003 stay on the shelves for very long, either. Hobby shops and other retailers, like Toys R Us and Michaels, have to constantly restock their supply of these kits to keep up with the demand. While at Michaels just the other day, I picked one up, and the cashier mentioned that she sees more of that kit sold than any other in stock.

If I were to give Round 2 any advice at all, I would tell them "the sooner, the better", for releasing this kit. If they want to reach a particular demographic, then this would be the best time to do so. I would imagine that the primary target audience for this subject would be in the 40+ range. That would include the remaining WWII Generation modelers, followed by the Silent Generation, which there are still a good many of, with the majority being the Baby Boomers and Gen X'ers.

Look, the 45th anniversary of the show's premiere is 2011. That would be a great marketing strategy to go with the release of the kit. Then, in five years, they could release a "Special 50th Anniversary Commemorative Edition" of the kit with some collectible items or features included.


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