# Two-Thirds Scale 33 inch TOS Enterprise (2nd attempt)



## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

I'm making a second attempt at a 22 inch version of the original 33 inch Enterprise. I'm hoping to improve on my first attempt in a number of ways, most importantly by addressing details that I had elected to not deal with during that first attempt (mainly because the project as a whole seemed quite overwhelming at the time I started it). In most other respects, I'll be doing many of the same things I did on the first, only hopefully better the second time around.

To help understand what it is that I'm attempting to improve on, here are a few comparison images of my first attempt with the original model (click images to enlarge).






​
It isn't that I was unhappy with my first attempt, only that I'd like to believe that I can do better with additional skills I've gained.

The first attempt was also a way of cross checking my plans for the 33 inch model (here). I printed out a version of those plans at two-third scale as a reference, but also took note where issues popped up (my model not looking like the photos during the build). I've made notes and will return to the plans to make corrections some time in the near future. But those same plans that I printed out are still being used for this second attempt.

*-continued below-*​


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

Progress to date...

This model is very similar to the first in that I'll be using a lot of parts from the 22 inch cutaway model and third party parts for that kit. I had considered doing a _one-to-one_ scale build this time, but I don't even have a place where I could lay the full size plans out flat. Plus I'd wanted a full size build to be of the same materials as the original model (kiln-dried sugar pine).

As on the first, the primary hull and dorsal will be scratch built. And because I don't need the model kit for that part, I've started on those parts even before acquiring another 22 inch kit.

The primary hull (for both models) started out as sections of foamcore board that were glued together to make the basic shape.








I then started filling in the stair steps with a paper mache pulp while taking care to create uniform curves.

















And I've started the B/C deck structure using the same techniques.

















Plus I've started in on parts that I'll be using for the warp nacelles and slowly been working on creating a smooth surface on the primary hull.

















I did buy a kit over the weekend, so it should be showing up soon. On my first attempt I removed the dorsal and lengthened the secondary hull by 3/8 of an inch. I'll be doing the same on this second build, but also reworking the fantail this time around.

I had also changed the point where the supports meet the nacelles on my first one and extended the inner trench back an additional quarter inch. I'm pretty sure I'll do the same thing this time, but I'll also be adding on rear domes rather than using the DLM rear nacelle caps.

So that is about where things stand at this point. I've been working on this for about three weeks, but I've made as much progress as I had in nearly three months on the first model (with far better results), so I'm very optimistic as to how this will turn out.


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## JGG1701 (Nov 9, 2004)

Very cool Shaw!!!
I for one am happy to see someone so devoted to TOS. It looks like a work of art in progress!:thumbsup:
Please keep us up to date with more pics. of course.
-Jim
P.S. Did you get to see my build of the 22" ?


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

Thanks!



JGG1701 said:


> P.S. Did you get to see my build of the 22" ?


Yeah... it is awesome! :thumbsup:

Someone had sent me a link to the album of your build. It is one of the models I show to people when they ask about building the 22 inch model because it is a perfect example of the potential the kit has (specially for those willing to put the extra effort into it).

I only wish my Constellation turned out as nicely as your Enterprise (aside from the lighting, which I hadn't attempted).

Because my Enterprise was the first model I'd built in nearly 15 years, I had originally bought two kits in case I had made any mistakes. When I was happy enough with my modifications, I built up the other as the Constellation (as a practice model). She isn't finished, and I plan on going back to fix a number of things.

​
I love her, but I'm more likely to show people your work than my Constellation when it comes to discussions of the 22 inch model.


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## MadCap Romanian (Oct 29, 2005)

I love that nacelle effect. How dod you do it? Steel Wool?


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

MadCap Romanian said:


> I love that nacelle effect. How dod you do it? Steel Wool?


As it turned out, I had come across these small pom-pom like things in a hobby store and realized that the gold and red ones would work nice for a nacelle dome effect. I'm going to have to think of something else this time as I can't seem to find them anymore.

This is what the other colors looked like...








Their not really useful for the nacelle stuff, but they sorta give you an idea of what the ones I used looked like outside of the domes.

They weren't expensive, and I'm kicking myself for not having bought more of them when I had a chance.


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## Griffworks (Jun 24, 2002)

As I've said at R.I., excellent work, David! I look forward to seeing the progression on your latest build. :thumbsup: 

.


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## JGG1701 (Nov 9, 2004)

*THANK YOU* Shaw, that truly means a lot.
Yours looks GREAT!
-Jim


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## hal9001 (May 28, 2008)

Shaw said:


> As it turned out, I had come across these small pom-pom like things...


Pom-pom like things? POM-POM LIKE THINGS?! Don't you know a punk Tribble when you see one? Geeessss. What kinda Trekkie are you? :lol:

Next thing you know, you'll be saying you don't know what Quadrotriticale is!

... hey, you're not a Klingon agent now are you? Just so we can be sure, take a picture of yourself holding one of those punk Tribbles Mr. and post it: By order of Star Fleet Security - [Or.#2-7331B of Sec. 1, article 26(c)] - possible infiltration of enemy agents.

hal9001-

*Oh yeah...really cool work by the way!*


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Excellent project! This is definitely an under-represented version of the original 1701.

I went with the 18" model on my project. I'm stuck trying to correct something right now I originally intended to not deal with (number of rings behind the deflector dish). After that, I'm close to primer stage. ( http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=189017 )


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

hal9001 said:


> ... hey, you're not a Klingon agent now are you? Just so we can be sure, take a picture of yourself holding one of those punk Tribbles Mr. and post it: By order of Star Fleet Security - [Or.#2-7331B of Sec. 1, article 26(c)] - possible infiltration of enemy agents.


I love tribbles, and have one of my own... but I don't know what it thinks of tribble-kids these days. 










PerfesserCoffee said:


> I went with the 18" model on my project...


Actually it was your project that first made me realize why all my previous models of the Enterprise had left me unsatisfied. I realized that what I really always wanted in a display model of the Enterprise was what we saw on the table in _"Requiem for Methuselah"_.




Griffworks said:


> As I've said at R.I., excellent work, David! I look forward to seeing the progression on your latest build. :thumbsup:


Thanks!

I appreciated all the encouragement throughout the building of the first model. It really helped.


_____________​I've been doing additional surface work on the primary hull. It takes a long time, but the end result should be worth it.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Shaw said:


> Actually it was your project that first made me realize why all my previous models of the Enterprise had left me unsatisfied. .


Wow! That's great to hear! I was about to jump off the Bedford Falls bridge! 

It's a wonderful model! :thumbsup: 

Coming along nicely. I'm glad to see you're using the 22" version. It's a good size and has some useful proportions besides the obvious differences between it and the 33" FX model.


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

Some updating...

I finally got another cutaway kit (it wasn't that important to have it right at the start of this as I wasn't needing any of it's parts at the previous stages). One of the first things I did was I started disassembling the parts I needed for the secondary hull.

At this point I started seriously reconsidering how to do the nacelle domes. Unlike the shape of the model (which I was able to get quite easily from the images I have), the colors proved more illusive (as so many of the images are either black & white or have had their color "corrected"). I went through my collection and found two images that I decided to use as a reference for what I'm aiming for.








What I decided to try doing was first frosting the inside of the domes, second painting the out side with Testors' semi-transparent Champagne Gold Metallic, and then filling the dome with something white (like cotton, very loosely packed). I think this combination will replicate the look of the original model.

This is the results of my first test attempt with a spare dome...








I was happy enough with that to try out the effect on my first model's domes. Here are some images (with my awful camera) along with an image of some of the disassemble kit parts.








The first area I wanted to tackle on the secondary hull was the hangar/fan tail/undercut. I cut off the trailing edge and flipped it upside down so I could use it as a starting point for reconstruction. I also cut a wooden sphere into the shape I needed for the hangar doors and there will be a wall directly forward of them like on the original model (which could be seen starting in the third season after it had lost it's hangar doors).

This shows a test assembly of those pieces so I could be sure everything fit together.








I glued the new fan tail to the secondary hull and started in on sculpting the new undercut. I still have some refining and cleaning up of that area over the next couple days, but I think these images show where it is heading.








Think that brings everything up to date.


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## JGG1701 (Nov 9, 2004)

Looking good Mr. Shaw!:thumbsup:
-Jim


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## KUROK (Feb 2, 2004)

Great attention to detail and accuracy!


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

Thanks guys!

I got a chance to take some better images of the old model with the new domes... here is how it turned out.


_Click to enlarge_


_Click to enlarge_​
I have some time to put more thought into this before I reach this stage on the current model (I haven't even ordered the domes yet), but I'm happy with the general direction of this dome effect.


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## JGG1701 (Nov 9, 2004)

Dang! That's pretty!:thumbsup:
-Jim


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## Landru (May 25, 2009)

Hey Shaw, I've been following your progress over at SSM with a real interest and I gotta say that these photos just blow my mind. They are beautiful pictures, and those domes are so spot on. Wonderful work!

Scott,
SJM from SSM


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

Thanks! :wave:

Yeah, it has a better feel to it now with those domes.

I've been plugging away on the secondary hull. First finishing the fantail area (including constructing the wall forward of the doors. This is how that had progressed...








The included image is the best image of the doors I have from after the series modifications and it seems to show that lines had been drawn on the doors. Other than that image, all the other good shots of that area I've collected are after the doors were lost (and therefore have little information to offer).








I continued on with extending the hull forward, but this time I built in a mounting for a stand (something which is missing from my first model). I cut a hole in the styrene that I was going to use for the lower extension and glued a segment of a pen to the opening, and once secure, glued that to the secondary hull.








I then incrementally extended the inner packing forward around the segment of pen (making the anchor point solid). I did test fits of the piece to see how they were fitting together.








And then finished gluing all the pieces of the extension to the hull.








I've added on the front edge, but haven't taken any images yet.


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

I started in on the nacelles next. One of the aspects I wanted to fix this time around was the rear end caps. Looking at the parts that came with the kit, I decided these were actually a good starting point, so I cut off the domes that came with them... and by _them_ I mean that whole end cap piece, which I have two of thanks to not having used the one from the previous model of the Enterprise. I then added a dome of the correct diameter in an attempt to match the look of the original model.








All and all, it feels like this will be a better match to the original model.

The next step was to do some major cutting on both nacelles. The inner trench of both needed to be extended back to match the original model. I had debated doing this as I wasn't sure if anyone had even notice this aspect of the first model, but when looking at images of the original I realized that I couldn't skip this aspect. Here are the nacelle pieces with the rear end of the trenches cut out and replaced further back (along with general progress images of the secondary hull, dorsal and primary hull).








Almost all the biggest hurdles in building this model are in the cutting into the pieces, and I've gotten past most of those hurdles at this point (with the next big one coming when I cut the hole in the primary hull for the dorsal to fit in).

One of the aspects I was working on was carving the grill ring around the front of the nacelles further into areas where it wasn't originally there on the model. When removing the features on the front, I was still left with detail gaps, and the carving I've done has hopefully covered that. It wasn't something I did on the first model, but on that model I was using the DLM parts which nicely cover the spots... even if they were the wrong dimensions.

You can sort of see the work I did on that in this image, but in the end this was more of an issue if you ever saw the model in person.


_Click to enlarge_​
More recently I've been plugging away at the nacelles and their supports.

The supports have been glued together with internal reinforcements and are now waiting for the tops to be cut off at the correct angle. The supports are quite strong and are using the same technique I used on the first model... paper clip wire glued to the inner surfaces. I've slowly improved on the technique with each model. 

The nacelles have been glued together now that the inner trench extension has been finished (at least the aspects that required access to the inner surface). I used small pieces of styrene along the edges to help reinforce the seams.

Additionally I've been working on the smaller defects of the primary hull. At this point I most likely will need to take an attempt at painting it (and the secondary hull) to see where the remaining issues are (and how much effort will be needed). Ideally I'd like to have as many issues resolved with the surface of the primary hull before I take the step of cutting into it to attach the dorsal.

The attachment of the dorsal and primary hull will be quite important for finishing off the secondary hull and I need to see how the primary hull/dorsal fit into the secondary hull to make the final internal changes (that will effect the overall alignment).

I think that brings most everything up to date.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Great job!

I'm glad to see you're correcting the size of the b/c decks teardrop-shaped section from the size and shape of the original model kit.


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

Thanks!

As it turned out, there is essentially nothing I could use from the kit from the neck up.

On the first attempt I thought I could use the B/C deck part from the DLM parts as the shape from the top is very similar between the 33 inch and 11 foot models... what I quickly found out was that the 33 inch model's B/C deck structure was squatter than that of the 11 foot model. That forced me to scratch build that section as well (for both attempts).

This is the basic layout of the parts on both attempts (with a comparison to the cutaway kit)...


_Click to enlarge_​
I'm taking on a number of additional scratch built parts on this second attempt now that I have a little more confidence in my abilities.


Two of the changes to the nacelles I wanted to point out are the grill rings in the front and the rear domes. The rings I extended to give me more room to work with when placing the _intake field generators_ (as the ones I made are narrower than the ones I removed from the kit). Plus I wanted to show the difference between the DLM rear domes I used on the first attempt and the one's I put together for this attempt.








These aren't massive changes, but they were aspects of the first attempt I wanted to address in this second one.


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

I put some time into the mounting points for the warp nacelles. This is pretty much the exact same thing I had done with my first attempt, and I didn't have a good reason to change the process.

The original attachment points on the nacelles were filled in, and I drilled two small holes in each nacelle where the supports would attach in their new positions. I then shaped heavy gauge paper clip wire into a "U" shape with the ends coming out of the nacelles to thread into the tops of the supports. The tops of the supports were cut off at a uniform angle, and then I assembled the pieces.

Nothing below is glued together, the nacelles are held in place with a single rubber band (very much like the test fits of my first attempt).


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## kdaracal (Jan 24, 2009)

Wonderful chronical. You should write a book..........I'd buy it.


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## JGG1701 (Nov 9, 2004)

Great work Mr. Shaw!
To many Enterprises though. I'll take one off your hands if ya like.:thumbsup:
-Jim


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## Blufusion (Jan 30, 2010)

Hey Guys ! In October of 2001 .I moved to DC and the 1st thing I did when I had time off was go to The Smithsonian Air and Space Museum.
After seeing all the ral stuff rom the Nasa era. I went to the gift shop and saw the Holy Grail of Star Trek Models used in the production of the series. I was so excited I probably spent more time looking at that ship more than looking at the Apollo Command Module from Apollo 11! If you ever get a chance to go ? I highly suggest it for people like us! Were Not Geeks just people that have the abilty to see ahead and envision the future


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

Thanks guys... it is great to get positive feedback like that.



JGG1701 said:


> To many Enterprises though. I'll take one off your hands if ya like.:thumbsup:


Well, I'll most likely be selling this one in an effort to raise funds for a _one-to-one_ attempt (done in wood like the original), so I'll be back down to one soon enough.

Hey, wait a second... you already have a beautiful model of the Enterprise! 



Here are a couple of shots of the model in it's test assembled state.








I took a few more images of the primary hull. I think I haven't brought it up, but the point at which the dorsal connects to the primary hull is an opening carved out of the primary hull (rather than an attempt to have the top of the dorsal match the curved surface of the primary hull). I had done the same thing on the previous model.








The dorsal isn't glued on yet (but fits snugly enough that it doesn't need to be at this point), neither is the B/C deck structure or the lower sensor dome.


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## JGG1701 (Nov 9, 2004)

Loving the time and effort that you are putting into this. Looking better all the time!
Keep posting.:thumbsup:
-Jim


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## Griffworks (Jun 24, 2002)

As before, David, awe inspiring work! :thumbsup:


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

Thanks!

Quick update... I went over the top of the primary hull with a primer coat again to see where I was at, and I'm pretty happy with the results. A couple small areas need attention, but on the whole it is pretty close to where I want it.








I know the bottom side needs more work, but I'll be giving it it's first coat so I can better see where the problems are in the next day or so.

One of the changes/additions I've made to this model compared to the previous one is the running lights (which won't be lit, but painted). I've added them to the top and bottom of the primary hull, and the top of the nacelles (barely visible in the images above).

They aren't major changes (which was why I wasn't worried about leaving them off the previous model), but I thought I'd point them out.


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## Richard38 (Apr 16, 2002)

Shaw,

That does look very clean and pretty! I think You have got this one going very much like you had hoped for, better start saving for a lathe for the full scale 33.75" one

Richard


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

Finding something that will turn a 15" disk is hard enough... and there is no way that I'm investing in equipment like that for a one time project.

In the end I'll most likely follow the same path that Richard Datin did when he made the original 33 inch model... find someone who has the equipment and contract out the turning of the major parts. It won't be as expensive as buying the equipment myself, but I doubt it'll be cheep either.

The big plus is that the person I find will most likely be pretty experienced (owning the equipment and all) and would have an easier time at turning those parts than I would have while attempting to learn while doing.

I just have to find someone. I used to have access to my Grandfather's wood shop and he had tons of tools like what I need for this, but I know he never had anything that could have turned a 15" disk (though the secondary hull and nacelles wouldn't have been a problem for him).


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## JGG1701 (Nov 9, 2004)

Shaw said:


> Thanks guys... it is great to get positive feedback like that.
> 
> Well, I'll most likely be selling this one in an effort to raise funds for a _one-to-one_ attempt (done in wood like the original), so I'll be back down to one soon enough.
> 
> Hey, wait a second... you already have a beautiful model of the Enterprise!


I know but yours looks *alot* more accurate. PM me or e mail me if you are really thinking about parting with this beauty.
-Jim


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

Wow... that is high preys. Just keep in mind that I'm a total amateur at this stuff and I'm learning as I go. I'm hoping it'll be better than my first one... but I'm not sure that is saying a lot.

At any rate, here are a few progress images as I check the surface flaws and test the positioning of the _intake field generators_ on the front of the nacelles.








Nothing is glued together yet... just sort of set in place to make sure everything is working together. Because of that, things (like the nacelles) aren't perfectly aligned.


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## JGG1701 (Nov 9, 2004)

:thumbsup::thumbsup:
-Jim


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## Seaview (Feb 18, 2004)

:thumbsup: Thank you for the inspiration! Now I know what I'll be working on between the Jupiter II and the 2001 Moonbus! :thumbsup:


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## HabuHunter32 (Aug 22, 2009)

Quite impressive! Lets see more!:thumbsup:


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## X15-A2 (Jan 21, 2004)

Why does everybody talk about buying a lathe or contracting such work to a vendor? I posted a section about this problem on my web site when I first put it up many years ago because I knew that this was a major issue for a lot of scratch builders.

The technique I describe requires no fancy tools! Just turn any shape you want with tools found around the house. I've learned recently that this type of shape turning is called a "scree table". Don't know the origin of the term but take a look at my description on the page linked below. Don't be put off by the length of the write up either, the technique is easy, just hard to describe in words.

http://www.cloudster.com/HowToSection/AxialSymmertricShapes.html

Enjoy!


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

Thanks guys!

The nacelles are going to be getting a lot of work over the next few days, so I'll be posting a lot of images on them (specially now that I have the use of a friends camera).



X15-A2 said:


> Why does everybody talk about buying a lathe or contracting such work to a vendor?


The difference with what I'm hoping to do with the final attempt is that that model (to be a historically accurate replica made of the same materials) will be solid wood. And the only way I can think of turning such a shape out of wood would be on a lathe.

The goal of that model, and the goal of the last few years of research that has gone into my plans of the 33 inch Enterprise, is to reproduce the original model. And because the original is (seemingly) gone, I wanted it as true to the original as possible... inside and out. It is a one time, labor of love so that there will be at least one accurate (above and beyond just the exterior) museum quality replica of it.

But your page is great and seems to describe the type of method I employed to make the primary hull of this model (and my first). The main difference is that I started with a roughed out shape made of layers of foamcore board before attempting to "scree" the final curves.

It is a great resource! Thanks for posting it. :thumbsup:


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## machgo (Feb 10, 2010)

Impressive work! If you hadn't said so, I wouldn't have known this was scratch built! Looks "factory," as they say. 

Do you think you could turn and shape your wooden disk (for your eventual full size model) by mounting it horizontally to a drill or drill press (turned on its head)?


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## X15-A2 (Jan 21, 2004)

I didn't realize that you were trying to duplicate the way the model was made as well as the shape. Obviously the method I describe is useless in that case. I had just hoped to save you what might possibly be a lot of money (if you were to buy a lathe).

It is a cool idea to make a replica of the actual model including its construction method. Good luck with it and please keep the photo updates coming.

Phil Broad


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

machgo said:


> Do you think you could turn and shape your wooden disk (for your eventual full size model) by mounting it horizontally to a drill or drill press (turned on its head)?


Possibly... Once I have this one finished off and I've finished incorporating all of the changes, corrections and emotions into a final set of plans, I plan on going out and discussing options with people who work with wood in a professional capacity to what would be the easiest (and hopefully least expensive) way to turn out the shapes.

The thing about the primary hull is that 15 inch diameter... that makes it a pretty big piece of wood.

It is funny, I was really considering taking a stab at a full size (though not solid wood) version this time... but when I pulled out the plans at their actual size, I didn't have any place where I could roll them out flat. It is amazing how much smaller a 22 inch model is compared to a 33 inch one.



X15-A2 said:


> Good luck with it and please keep the photo updates coming.
> 
> Phil Broad


Well, I haven't gotten back to the model... but I figured I'd take a few additional shots (in case I screw up the model when I get started again).


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## Fozzie (May 25, 2009)

That is just stunning work. I'm very impressed! Please continue posting pictures of your progress. This is one of my favorite threads.


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## Mark Dorais (May 25, 2006)

Wow......I've loved the look of the 33 inch Enterprise. You have nailed the details beautifully. Too bad there isn't a commercial kit out there based on your talented efforts. Can't wait to see more pictures!


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## Landru (May 25, 2009)

This project is one of the most original and interesting I've seen in a while. Look forward to more updates, Shaw!


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

Wow, thanks for all the encouragement guys!

I spent a little more time on the nacelles over the weekend, including gluing on the _intake field generators_ and doing a quick coat of primer to see how well they looked (and how my positioning went).

All and all I'm pretty happy with the results.

I took a few close-up shots of the nacelles (front and back) and a couple more test assembly shots after the primer was applied.

Things to note are the wires used to align the nacelles on their supports and that the rear nacelle domes were made using the front domes from the PL 1/1000 kit (which happened to be the right size). Originally I was going to get the domes from here, but they required a $16 minimum order.


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## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

Cool! Yet whenever I see the silhouette of that primary hull I do a double take.


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## JGG1701 (Nov 9, 2004)

*EXTREMELY* nice.
-Jim


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## Landru (May 25, 2009)

Shaw, your shuttle bay and bridge dome look spot on. For some reason, my favourite part of this build is the bridge dome.


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

Landru said:


> Shaw, your shuttle bay and bridge dome look spot on. For some reason, my favourite part of this build is the bridge dome.


Well, I can take credit for the shuttle bay... but the bridge piece (on both models) is from the DLM parts set.

Here is a last set of images before I had to give my friend's camera back.


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## JGG1701 (Nov 9, 2004)

Shaw said:


> Here is a last set of images before I had to give my friend's camera back.


Beautiful builds!:thumbsup:

You mean no more progress pics.?
*Please* say it isn't so?!?!

-Jim


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

JGG1701 said:


> You mean no more progress pics.?
> *Please* say it isn't so?!?!


It isn't so. 

I'll still be taking some pics... they'll just be of poorer quality as I'll be using my cheep camera to take them. :freak:


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## JGG1701 (Nov 9, 2004)

_Phewww!_ Good to here.
-Jim


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## robster94gt (Feb 5, 2009)

Awesome. I've always loved the 3 foot Enterprise. It's my favorite rendition of the ship.


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## JGG1701 (Nov 9, 2004)

Update?
-Jim


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

Well, I started anchoring the dorsal to the secondary hull.

I started by marking off how much of the dorsal would rest below the edge, and then put three small pins into each side below that line. I put the major pieces together, made sure they lined up nicely, and started gluing. I glued two spots with super glue, then went around (where it was close enough) with model glue. About three hours later I started packing in both sides of the dorsal inside the secondary hull. When that had cured enough, I started sanding down the elements that had pressed out through the gaps. I then went around one more time with model glue.

The packing is done with the same cellulose-based paper maché I've used else where on the model. The pins were intended to make sure that a solid connection is made, and the stuff eventually cure super solid, so the dorsal isn't going anywhere.

Here is a quick look at it as it stands right now...








I have a few other spots on the secondary hull to address (which became visible after I had done the gray priming before), and then I'll do another gray priming to see how it is coming along.


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

It looks like I've been away from this thread for a while. Most Excellent.


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## JGG1701 (Nov 9, 2004)

*Looking good* Mr Shaw!!!:thumbsup:
-Jim


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

Thanks guys!

A little off topic... while posting in another thread I got to thinking about the last time I attempted to build the Enterprise back in the late 1980s, early 1990's. I was able to scrounge together some (poor) images of my projects from back then and thought I'd share them with you guys.








Back then I had access to my grandfather's wood shop and was able to build a lot more things than today.


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

Another small update... I started gluing the nacelles to the supports today. The supports aren't glued to the secondary hull yet (actually, the supports on my first attempt still aren't glued to the secondary hull either), but I needed to arrange everything to see that stuff was lining up the way I wanted as I did the gluing.











___________________​
Another slightly off-topic item... I was looking at reference images of both the Master Replicas and Unobtainium Enterprise models, and reviewing what I could about what had gone wrong with the Unobtainium version, and came across this interesting quote by someone who said he had been part of the production of that model series...



DukeAlaric said:


> But some of the problems that we ran into, such as nit picked measurements, etc, are going to be issues that every model company will face. Not everyone will be 100% happy with any repro of this ship, as the original simply doesn't exist to be copied.


This isn't a surprising statement as a photo of the pricing display for the Unobtainium model included this line..._WORLD'S FIRST FULL-SIZE REPLICA OF 33" FILMING MODEL_​What is interesting about both of these is that the Unobtainium model bares little resemblance to the original 33 inch model other than their (relatively) similar size. And even then, it seemed that Unobtainium went with 1/350 scale rather than 1/4 the size of the 11 foot model (which at least would have been about the right size).

But the thing is, this model seemed to be intended as a replica of the 11 foot model rather than the 33 inch model. And from what I can tell, it looks like some of the features are based on the Sinclair plans (as opposed to the Kerr plans). The features that are slightly off on the Unobtainium model seem dead on on the Master Replicas version from what I've seen.

In the end it seems a little disingenuous to claim this model was a replica of the 33 inch model when in every way I can see it really wasn't intended to be.

Anyways... just one of those things I ran across while waiting for glue to dry. :tongue:


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## JGG1701 (Nov 9, 2004)

Interesting info. Mr. Shaw.
-Jim


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## Lou Dalmaso (Jul 13, 2004)

well, honesty was never a strong point for the Unobtanium folks.

not the actual builders, mind you. I'm talking about the management


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## JGG1701 (Nov 9, 2004)

Careful Mr. Lou.
-Jim


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

So I let the model stand on it's own today... and it is doing so quite nicely. Everything seems to be aligned correctly. So now I'm letting the nacelles/supports rest by themselves for a while (with the supports standing straight up in the air).

By next weekend I'll most likely be comfortable enough in the glue having cured to have the nacelles attached to the model supporting their own weight for extended periods.


As for the Unobtainium stuff... I wasn't intending to pick on them. It was just interesting that they would claim that their model had any relation to the original 33 inch model.

For years I had heard people (some of them rightfully considered experts on the Enterprise) say that no plans would ever be made and no replicas ever constructed of the original 33 inch model because the original was lost and only a handful of images remained. Of course such a statement sounds like a good challenge to me, which was why I started in on this in the first place.

But I can only recall one interview about the Master Replicas Enterprise where the 33 inch model was brought up (and it was to justify the _studio scale_ description of the model). And AW Studios (who was attempting a 1/350 scale replica) was always clear that they were attempting to replicate the 11 foot models details. Same with the 66 inch models by Custom Replicas and RShanko (though, obviously, neither share similar dimensions with the 33 inch Enterprise).

At any rate, I've looked at a lot of attempts at building models of the Enterprise (even if all have been attempts to replicate the 11 foot model) for insight on how to go about building my own models.

For example, one of the things I'm most concerned with in doing a fully scratch built model is the area where the supports for the nacelles attach to the secondary hull. I've looked at a lot of examples (including David Merriman's build) trying to figure out how to approach this issue (if my next model is not made of wood). And as it turns out, the dissection of an Unobtainium by Thomas Sasser was quite interesting in that research... and was why I brought them up at all.


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

Quick update... I've been doing some sanding to eliminate some flaws on the surface of the model and have been leaving it assembled for the last four or five days when not working on it. Here is how it looks assembled...








I'm pretty happy with the parts alignment so far, so I'm quite optimistic about how this one will turn out. :thumbsup:


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## Fozzie (May 25, 2009)

Looks amazing...!


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## eagledocf15 (Nov 4, 2008)

*Looks Fantastic*

I would love to see more of this build?


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## JGG1701 (Nov 9, 2004)

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
-Jim


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## JGG1701 (Nov 9, 2004)

Any updates Mr. Shaw?
-Jim


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

On the model itself... not really (at least nothing visually interesting).

But I've been playing around with some additional ideas for the nacelle domes... testing them out on my first model to see how they looked.








These domes have transparent orange on the insides and a pearl applied to the outside. These are the domes off my Constellation model, so I still have the new domes set aside until I decide on what I want to do with them.


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## eagledocf15 (Nov 4, 2008)

*Dome testing*

From the photos on the new domes, you really don't see an orange hue. Looks more gold by the photos. Thanks for the update though.


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## X15-A2 (Jan 21, 2004)

Looks like the original 33 inch model will be up for sale. The Yahoo News article doesn't give the exact date for this "Star Trek Collectibles Auction", just "this summer". Items include "a model of Starship Enterprise from his office" ("his" meaning "Roddenberry").

Paramount security was actively looking for that model for years but I don't think it was much of a secret that Roddenberry took it home. It was in his office at the the studio after all so naturally he took it with him when he left. Hopefully we will get some close up photos of it when it goes on sale.


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

eagledocf15 said:


> From the photos on the new domes, you really don't see an orange hue. Looks more gold by the photos. Thanks for the update though.


I'll borrow my friend's camera again soon for better images (including better shots of the second model). My camera hardly works at all for this stuff.




X15-A2 said:


> Looks like the original 33 inch model will be up for sale. The Yahoo News article doesn't give the exact date for this "Star Trek Collectibles Auction", just "this summer". Items include "a model of Starship Enterprise from his office" ("his" meaning "Roddenberry").
> 
> Paramount security was actively looking for that model for years but I don't think it was much of a secret that Roddenberry took it home. It was in his office at the the studio after all so naturally he took it with him when he left. Hopefully we will get some close up photos of it when it goes on sale.


Could you link to the article... I could only find this auction (also here) in reference to items from Roddenberry's collection (and it doesn't list/describe the model there). And The Star Trek Prop, Costume & Auction Blog didn't include it in the highlights. 

The thing is, I've seen photos of Roddenberry with a model of the Refit Enterprise in his office during the 1980s... and considering what the smaller movie refit model went for at Christie's Auction (just over $50,000 as I recall), I'd have thought that the _original_ original Enterprise would have gotten more extensive coverage.


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## X15-A2 (Jan 21, 2004)

I didn't think that I could find the link again but after a little searching, here it is:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/space/20100...ncegoingtwicestartrekcollectiblesupforauction

It appears to be the same auction that you linked to which mentions replicas made specifically for the auction. The Yahoo story states that they will be selling "a model Starship Enterprise from his office" which I would think would be the 33 incher since he was the last one to have it. Who knows? I guess we'll find out soon enough.

Lets all hope that it is and that we will soon see new photos of it!


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

Well, if it is one of the items there should be an image in the catalog... who wants to pop for the $50 to find out? :thumbsup:


Or we could e-mail Rod Roddenberry to see if it is the model (it would be a chance to clear his name of the charge that he destroyed it as a child).


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## JGG1701 (Nov 9, 2004)

Hey there!
Any progress?
-Jim


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

Actually, yeah... I've made some good progress recently. I'll take some images and share them later today. :thumbsup:


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

Okay... so the major changes that have been made since I last posted an update are that the primary hull, dorsal and secondary hull are glued together now, and I've started attaching the primary hull elements to the primary hull. I've also finish attaching the front of the secondary hull, and I need to do some additional filling/sanding to a few small spots before I take another pass with the primer.








I've also gotten all the decals I'll be using for this model... hull markings are from Thomas Sasser, the windows are from JT Graphics. And I'm still playing with ideas for the nacelle domes.

So that is about where everything stands at this point. :thumbsup:


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## JGG1701 (Nov 9, 2004)

Man , she's a beauty!:thumbsup:
-Jim


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

Not a massive update, but a little progress. The last of the items that needed gluing onto the model before painting starts have been glued on. The model most likely doesn't seem any different because those parts were usually sitting in place when photographed.

After a few more touch ups and a little sanding, it should be ready for it's base coat of paint (hopefully next weekend), followed by the painting of some of the details. Those will be allowed to set for a while before I mask them and start in on the final painting.

This is also a test of the mounting point built into this model (on a makeshift stand).








And here is a couple shots of the first model with the test nacelles domes (in standard lighting without the white background).








This is also the last (decent) images for a while as I'll be returning the camera to my friend this week.


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

There's so much to like about this build!


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Looking really gorgeous! You're nailing every detail!


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

Thanks guys! That means a lot coming from you two.

I hope to build some time into my schedule over the next few days to a week. I've started a list of the paints I'll need (specially as some of my bottled paints are useless now and need replacing).

As the painting and all isn't going to be all that different from my first attempt, the next interesting (and new) aspect will be the display stand. I've already spotted the wooden base I want to use at my local _Michael's_, so now I'm considering how to paint/stain it.

I'm leaning towards a dark stain with a gloss black top. I want it simple, but it would be nice to replicate (to a small degree) the feel of the original model on the table in _Requiem for Methuselah_.




It is funny, I'm about at the same spot I was at a year ago with my first attempt. Out of nostalgia, here is what that model looked like at that point.








I'd like to think that I've improved on my modeling skills between these two attempts. The current attempt has certainly gained a lot based on what I learned from my first attempt.


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## JGG1701 (Nov 9, 2004)

Great as always Mr. Shaw!:thumbsup:
-Jim


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

As I start in on painting this model, it is funny how hard it is to stay focused on which model I'm attempting to replicate. There are many times (both in the current build and the previous one) where I've started planning to paint the model one way, only to remember at the last minute that those details don't apply to the 33 inch model.

And there is at least one case on the first build where I mistakenly painted a part the wrong color... that being the spike on the navigation dish. On that model I painted the spike steal (because I didn't have silver) when in actuality the spike is the same copper color as the dish.








Part of the problem is that the spike was silver for the pilot version of the model, but not the series version.

Additionally, I'm mixing parts together on the dish this time. The spike that came with the kit is actually a closer match to the 33 inch model's spike than the one that came with the DLM parts, so I'm going with that spike on this build (I used the DLM spike on the previous build).

I should probably take a break from looking at the 11 foot model (and replicas of it) for a while so that I don't mix in details from it while painting and decaling this model. 


_Edit..._
Here are a couple quick shots while I wait for some things to dry.


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## JGG1701 (Nov 9, 2004)

*VERY , VERY * nice!!!
Boy this is a great thread! Looks like you got the color right. :thumbsup:
You are doing the Enterprise proud.


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

Thanks!

I've started in on figuring out how to mask an area of the nacelles that has to be a slightly darker gray. On the first model I did this feature as a raised area (so the whole model was done in a single color), but I've opted for two colors this time around.








This is just a test... it is placed on the primer at this point. I just wanted to see how closely I matched my plans (though I shortened the length of the masked area to work better with the decals I am using).


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

A little more painting has been done.

The base coat that you see over most of the model in these images is Testors Light Sea Gray. That is not going to be the final color of the model (which will be Gull Gray), but will be the color of a few of the darker gray areas. The key thing for me is that both Light Sea Gray and Gull Gray pull towards green (rather than blue) and are nearly the same... so the dark areas won't be too dark.

I also got a little closer to the model than I normally would in a few shots. So remember that while this is my second try at scratch building, I'm still quite the beginner at this.


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

seeing her all base-coated like that.... mmmm!


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## Richard38 (Apr 16, 2002)

Shaw,

That is looking very very nice! the Nacelle caps are eyecatching!

Richard


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

Thanks!

I don't think it shows up all that well in the photos, but the surface of the domes has a coat of pearlescents to them (it was one of the aspects of the previous Champagne Gold Metallic that I wanted to retain).


Even with the current model sitting right next to my previous one, it was hard to see if the color difference would be significant enough between the Light Sea Gray and the Gull Gray for the use of the Light Sea Gray on the darker areas. So I pulled my (as yet unfinished) Constellation down to stand in as a guinea pig. The Constellation was also painted Gull Gray, so I masked off an area on one of the nacelles and tested the Light Sea Gray on it.

Here are the results (no flash on the top image, flash on the bottom one.








That is pretty much what I was hoping for.



Of course now I'll have to go back at some point later on and do the other nacelle on the Constellation the same way.


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## HabuHunter32 (Aug 22, 2009)

If this is only your second attempt at scrathbuilding then you're a natural! This is one of the nicest builds of any version of the Enterprise that I have ever seen! I can't waite to see her finished! Congrats! :thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

Thanks! :thumbsup:

I still think I have a lot to learn, so I've been going slowly to make up for not having many models under my belt.


Quick progress report...

I've been slowly working on painting the model. As of right now I've finished painting the nacelles. I'll most likely apply all the nacelle decals within the next day or so, and then start in on painting the primary & secondary hulls.

While doing this painting, I decided to look a little deeper into the color possibilities for non-professionals like myself who are limited to canned paint (as I don't have an air brush setup). Fortunately the Testors' website provides a lot of samples for the colors they offer, which in turn has let me compare and contrast them.

To begin with, I'm more than confident in the research of Paul Newitt and the conclusions he reached (in his article here). I have used the RGB version of Concrete (162, 171, 163) as a base line reference for comparing the Testors paints.

My choice of paints to compare are based mainly on those that I've used in the past and that I am using on this current model... those being Gull Gray, Light Sea Gray and Camouflage Gray. I've seen a lot of different modelers strongly recommend Light Ghost Gray, so I've included it to see how it compared. And recently I found on Testors' web site a sample for Concrete, which was from Floquil which is now part of Testors.

A quick run down of what is displayed in the graphic below... First is the color sample, followed by a desaturated version for comparing the base _gray_ness of each. Then I include the HSB numbers of each sample (taken in the same place on all the samples).








So, none of the samples matched the reference version of Concrete... specifically, none came close to the green of that Concrete. This isn't surprising, and I wasn't expecting an exact match. Most of the colors were pretty close in that their influence colors were warm (yellow to greenish-yellow), but oddly enough Light Ghost Gray was not only unique in being blue, it's blue was also the furthest color from the green of the reference Concrete.

One of the interesting things to note is how dark the reference Concrete is. The two colors that I sampled that come close to that darkness were the Floquil Concrete and the Light Sea Gray (which were remarkably close to each other as well). Both Light Ghost Gray and Gull Gray were about 13% lighter than the reference Concrete, with Camouflage Gray being 23% lighter.

Does this have any effect on the model I'm working on right now? No. I picked my colors (Gull Gray for most of the model with Light Sea Gray for some darker areas) and I'm pretty happy with them.

Should this effect how other people paint their models? I would think not. If Light Ghost Gray looks right to someone, then it is the right color. Same goes for any color really. The Enterprise looked different from image to image and from episode to episode. So if a gray that shifts towards blue seems right, then it is right for that person. If a gray that is lighter looks right, then it is right for that person as well. I just put most of this stuff together for something to do while I sit and watch paint dry. 

Additionally, because I'm about to do decals again... and I'm very inexperienced at it, I've pressed the Constellation in as a guinea pig for me to practice on. I've been adding left over decals to her this evening so I'm familiar with the process again.



So, that is about where everything stands currently. I've been doing a lot, just haven't had much in the way of images to share.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

This is what I came up that matches the concrete paint swatches:

Using Testor's Model Master flat paints:

1 part SAC Bomber Green #1793

2 parts Flat Gull Gray #1730

8 parts flat white #2142

It's nice to see the greenish gray color on the hull--adds a little extra something to the look of the ship.


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

Sadly I'll never be able to find out how nice that color would be unless they start selling it in a can.  But it sounds like a good combination.



Some interesting information on the 33 inch model has popped up recently. I ran across this quote last night...
_"Last I heard, it was on someone's coffee table. It was ripped off during the late 1970s when the first movie was being made. It was last seen at a special effects house."_
- Susan Sackett​What makes this so interesting is that it both narrows down a time and the pool of persons to whom the model would have been loaned out to.

Speculating a little, odds are the model would have been loaned out as a reference for building the models for TMP (both the 8 foot and 2 foot models), and those were originally built by Magicam (though they would later be altered by Douglas Trumbull). It has been reported that the models took 14 months to build, so if the 33 inch model was loaned out near the beginning of that process, we can estimate that at spring/summer of 1978.

What is interesting about this is that Roddenberry wasn't actually given the 33 inch model until his return to Paramount in 1975 to start in on development for Star Trek Phase II. This would mean that he only had the model in his possession for about 3 years. That is far shorter than is generally assumed.

As for the Magicam connection... that company didn't exist for very long, and so I wouldn't think that there would be many employees who would have had access to the model. Who knows, maybe one of the guys in this image currently has the model...











I'm still plugging away on my model. I've pretty much finished the painting of the primary and secondary hulls, and have applied the decals to the nacelles. This is how the nacelles look (sorry about the image quality).


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Shaw said:


> Sadly I'll never be able to find out how nice that color would be unless they start selling it in a can.  But it sounds like a good combination.


http://www.harborfreight.com/airbrush-kit-47791.html


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

PerfesserCoffee said:


> http://www.harborfreight.com/airbrush-kit-47791.html


$9.99?

That is an amazing price!

Unfortunately it isn't a realistic one. This would be more along the lines of what I need...

Compressor & Air Brush Kit

And at $79.99 that would about double the amount I've spent on building this model to date. And the money spent on this model so far had to be scrounged together (and there was a lot of materials I had lying around for nearly 10 years that went into this model as well).

This model (when finished) will be only my second finished model after a 15 year hiatus from model building, so putting that type of money into something I may not use much (specially when it is money I haven't had) isn't really an option.

Model building isn't really my hobby, the Enterprise is. And most of that is compiling data and doing drawings... and even then, $80 is more than I spent on the best computer I currently own.

On top of being a totally amateurish model, this model has been a cheep one as well. The DLM Parts (at about $50) nearly sunk me, and even then I only used a third of them (maybe I can return the unused parts). I told my wife I could build this model for under $100, and that is what I've done.


But if I get into model building (and for all I know, I could be hooked on this), then yeah, that would most likely make a great investment. Then again, so would a lathe... or a workshop (I live in a small apartment), or another room to display any models I build (which I really don't even have room for the ones I've made so far).

Today, as things stand, for all I know this could be the last model I build for another 15 years. So paint in cans is where I'm at for now (unless someone wishes to donate an airbrush setup or the funds for one).



So again, the color analysis I did was based on the limitations *I* am constrained to. I'm sure that you guys who build tons of models can come up with way better alternatives, but I hardly qualify as a model builder at this point and don't have those resources you guys do.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Ten bucks is not much just to be able to spray on the base coat which is all I do with spray brushes anyway. Some folks like to get fancy but having the ability to spray the exact color I want is priceless. After the base coat, for me it's all rattle cans clear coats, decals, and artists' oils for shading and highlighting.


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

I've been making some progress on my model...

Most of the decals are now placed. I have a handful of decals left (rim windows on the primary hull, spine stripes on the secondary hull and landing lights below the hangar doors) and she'll be done. Here are a few images (sadly taken with my awful camera) that show how she stands currently...

















I'll borrow my friend's camera again once the model is finished to take some better shots of it.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

That's fantastic! Incredibly good rendition. You've got the contours down pat.


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## JGG1701 (Nov 9, 2004)

:thumbsup:Totally at a loss for words Mr. Shaw.:thumbsup:
-Jim


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

Thanks a ton guys!

A little more progress (emphasis on _progress_)... I added a number of additional decals, but I haven't finished adding coats of the gloss lacquer yet, nor have I finished painting many of the details and some of the parts. She is far from finished.

I did get the base for the stand, but other than drilling a hole in it, it too is a WIP. I plan on staining it a dark red/brown, but I've already started using it to hold the model.

So here is how it looks today...








I'm pretty happy with where it's at currently. I think it would have been better if I had had more experience going into the build. But you have to build models to build experience, I don't think there is a short cut around that.


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## Richard38 (Apr 16, 2002)

Shaw,

I think it looks awesome! One of the few builds I have seen that does not suffer from the sagging rustbucket syndrome. Those Nacelles are cherry!

Nice job on the decaling too, looks sharp!

If you were lacking in skill before, you have made good progress in skill building on these 2 builds.

Richard


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

Thanks!

Yeah, nacelle sag was one of my biggest concerns going into all this. Because I was cutting the nacelles away from their supports and re-attaching them in a different spot, I wasn't sure how well they would hold up.

Interestingly enough, about this time last year my first model fell (about 4 feet) to the floor breaking the nacelles away from the supports (though not completely). Both before and after the accident they had held themselves up nicely... and there is no sign of sag in them after standing for a year now.

That experience made it a lot easier to progress past that point on my second attempt.

This is a shot of my first model in dry dock getting repairs...








What hasn't been repaired (yet) is a crack along the top and bottom of the starboard nacelle. But now that I have some spare decals, I might return to that model to fix those issues.



On the subject of the current model... there really isn't anything _new_, but I took a ton more shots for my Dad (and because I need to get the camera back tomorrow  ). These you can skip as they are pretty much _more of the same_ (and is why I'm not posting them as images).

Enterprise Progress 1
Enterprise Progress 2
Enterprise Progress 3
Enterprise Progress 4
Enterprise Progress 5


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## JGG1701 (Nov 9, 2004)

Something to be proud of eh Mr Shaw?
Not enough pics. can be taken of the beauty.:thumbsup:
-Jim


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

JGG1701 said:


> Not enough pics. can be taken of the beauty.:thumbsup:
> -Jim


I concur! More pics!!!


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

Thanks Guys!

I keep worrying that sharing images of my build is like sharing baby pictures (in which babies are never as cute to others as they are to their parents). But I'll take some more images as soon as I have access to a good camera again.

As it stands right now, the changes I've made don't really even show up in my cheep little camera.

On the subject of changes...

I've painted the lower dome on the primary hull. On my first attempt I had painted the dome steel and gone over it with a green dry erase marker... but I think the steel was a little dark. On this attempt I used silver, and I think the effect is nicer.

I've made a dome substituted for the bridge dome (painting them the same way I did the lower dome), but I haven't been as happy with the fit as I was with the dome I made for my first attempt. It isn't a pressing issue, so I'll keep looking for alternatives.

One of the biggest _little_ changes between this attempt and the previous one is the addition of marker lights on the hull. Much like the ones on the original 33 inch model, these are static physical features, but to give them the illusion of being something more, I painted them silver... and in some cases added a hint of either red or green. I think it looks nice... but it wouldn't really show up in images from my camera, so shots will have to wait for a better camera.

The only other thing done is to start in on a dull coat over the model.

On my _to do_ list... I still need to paint a number of parts the hull color, and I still need to stain the base of the stand I'm using.



I have been doing some research into the original stand for the original model. From what I can tell, the stand was made up of a 12" x 12" square wooden base, with a metallic 6" flexible arm on which the model set. There also seemed to be a 5" x 1.5" engraved plaque on the base... but I'm still not sure what it said at this point.

These are the best images I have on the stand...








The dimensions of the original stand lend themselves nicely to making a two-thirds replica. The reason I haven't put a lot into making a stand like this as the _only_ stand (or principle stand) for the model is that I think the original stand was actually a bad design. The original model sustained quite a bit of damage between the second and third seasons of the show, and I'm willing to bet that it was because it fell over while being displayed on it's stand.

Given that, I want to make as solid a stand as possible for normal display purposes first... then I'll think about a second stand that I could use for taking photos of it on to make it better match the original.

But all that is pretty low on my priority list.


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## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

I concur on the stand. At 12" x 12" I wouldn't trust it to safely support a model almost 3 feet long. Unless you made it out of something really heavy like marble or granite rather than wood. Regarding the flexible tube it appears to be some sort of flexible electrical conduit; an interesting idea if that's what was used.


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

It seems like it is the same type of adjustable neck you find in lamps and the like (including the lamp I use for lighting the model in many of my images). I've already tracked down where to buy those (including the diamond mount to attach it to the base)... the main problem is finding one that is short enough. They are sold quite widely at the 6" length... but I'm having a hard time tracking down one at 4". And I'm not sure what would be involved in cutting one down (though I guess I could experiment with my lamp to see  ).


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## Lou Dalmaso (Jul 13, 2004)

looks like it could be Microphone cable as well, might want to check local instrument/music stores to see if you can get a lenght that works


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## JGG1701 (Nov 9, 2004)

Kinda looks like the one used here , maybe?
-Jim
VVV


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

Lou Dalmaso said:


> looks like it could be Microphone cable as well, might want to check local instrument/music stores to see if you can get a lenght that works


I've checked out a couple places like that... it seems that 4" is just a little too short for most uses of this stuff to find it pre-cut to that length.

I might just bite the bullet and stay with 6", but I'm still quite a ways from having to make the final choice.



JGG1701 said:


> Kinda looks like the one used here , maybe?


Well, considering that these were being removed from the sets at about the same time the original base was made, maybe one was employed to hold up the model. But it would need to be a shorter one (or one that was cut down to size).


Knowing how my model likes to tip backwards, I'm not replacing the stand I'm working on for normal displaying of the model.


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

My camera has been delayed... so in the mean time, I borrowed my friend's camera (again).

I took a series of shots and made them black & white so I could compare them to some of the black & white reference images I have. That, and I like black & white images more anyways. 








So, hopefully I'll have a nice camera in the relatively near future. But in the mean time, I have my friend's camera until Saturday. :thumbsup:


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## Landru (May 25, 2009)

Holy cow this model came out great, I really feel like I'm seeing old 60's promo pics for Star Trek. Flawless!


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

Thanks! Yeah, that is why I really like them better as black & white images.

I threw together another series of images last night because I realized I have a number of work projects that will most likely keep me occupied well past this weekend.


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## Landru (May 25, 2009)

^Wow, where did you find all those unrealeased pictures of the 33 incher?:thumbsup:


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

Thanks! :thumbsup:


Okay... over the last few days I took a few more images, and cleaned up previously posted ones. It started out as just removing a few stray pixels, so I went in to Photoshop to get rid of them. Then I decided to remove the support rod, and then the background. So these are a little more _artsy_ than how they were before.


_Click to enlarge_


_Click to enlarge_


_Click to enlarge_


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_Click to enlarge_​


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

... Continued


_Click to enlarge_


_Click to enlarge_


_Click to enlarge_


_Click to enlarge_


_Click to enlarge_​


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## Joeysaddress (Jun 16, 2006)

Looks perfect!


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## pagni (Mar 20, 1999)

Landru said:


> ^Wow, where did you find all those unrealeased pictures of the 33 incher?:thumbsup:


lol ! I was going to say......
those do look very much like my series of unreleased pics of the 3 footer.:thumbsup:


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

pagni said:


> lol ! I was going to say......
> those do look very much like my series of unreleased pics of the 3 footer.:thumbsup:


Actually, it was the pictures you shared with us (here, here, here, and at StarTrekHistory.com) that gave me the idea to switch to a black background from my previous white one once I finished with the normal build progress. Oddly enough, even though all the ones you shared were in black & white, I didn't think about changing mine to black & white until the colors turned out messed up.


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## Landru (May 25, 2009)

Pagni, those pics are really really nice! Do you have any unreleased, or lesser seen stills of the 11 footer?


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## pagni (Mar 20, 1999)

No, unfortunately I have no (unreleased) pics of the 11 footer...
I do have more from the same series of the 3 footer that haven't shown up on STHistory or here....
As an aside I'm very much looking forward to the new DC Fontana book that is soon to be released. 
I have always thought it would be a great idea to redo "The Making Of Star Trek" what with all the archive material that is now out there...most in private collections. Apparently someone else had the bright idea... 
Can't wait to see it.. CBS Paramount opened up the vaults and we are apparently going to see things we've never seen before.


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## RICHjm (Jun 14, 2010)

pagni

..."I do have more from the same series of the 3 footer that haven't shown up on STHistory or here...."

For model building reference, any chance of seeing these unseen photos ? Thanx for sharing the location and of other pics !


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## RICHjm (Jun 14, 2010)

SHAW,

BTW, I'm a new member...well sort of.For about the past year I've been a ghost looking over your shoulders.Found this site when in search of ref pics of the Enterprise.Alot of reference,information and TALENT here!! I like it here! Thank you for having me!

Anyway...MR. SHAW you and this build are the reason I regestered!

I wish to thank you for the 3 footer blueprints,pics,and info.I've been following your work and has inspired me to do my 22"(#S970 & 8790 & DLM) 3' concept model.I will post pics as soon as camera gets here and I learn to work it. 
My first question(of many) is what did you do to reinforce/strenghthen the pylon/engine area? The pylons look maybe perhaps to be a bit thicker. 

...steady as she goes!


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## Landru (May 25, 2009)

pagni said:


> Can't wait to see it.. CBS Paramount opened up the vaults and we are apparently going to see things we've never seen before.


I haven't heard about this yet, what exactly are they releasing??


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## pagni (Mar 20, 1999)

It's actually something I wanted to do but someone else has got to it first,
Are you familiar with the Star Wars 365 book put out a while ago ?
Well this is Star Trek 365 and it's (from what I understand) TOS only
and it was just released today.
Just got a notice from Amazon.


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## Landru (May 25, 2009)

Saw a couple of pics off the web,

http://www.megomuseum.com/community/showthread.php?t=45854

That pic of the Pilot Enterprise is GOLD. I'm really happy to see that there is material out there that we haven't seen yet.


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

RICHjm said:


> Anyway...MR. SHAW you and this build are the reason I regestered!...
> 
> My first question(of many) is what did you do to reinforce/strenghthen the pylon/engine area? The pylons look maybe perhaps to be a bit thicker.


Thanks!

The nacelle supports have heavy gauge paper clips glued to the inside walls. That adds a significant amount of rigidity to them. I also used the same paper clip wire to act as a mounting guide for attaching the nacelles to the supports (as I was putting them in a new position from how the kit was originally designed). But externally the supports aren't any thicker than they normally would be.

Actually, I love how the supports attach to the secondary hull on the 22 inch kit. I could scratch build every other part of the model... but that attachment point is like gold to me. I have three 22 inch models (the Constellation and the two Enterprise models) and none of them have the supports glued to the secondary hulls. The way they stand is based on how the parts fit into the slots.

So yeah, when looking at those last images of the model I just finished, know those parts aren't glued.

I already know that that part of the fully scratch build 33 inch model I'll be attempting next is the part I'm most worried about.


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

I just realized reading back through the last couple pages that I hadn't posted any color images of the model. So here is how she looks currently (please excuse the mess in the background).








It also sort of gives a good reference for how big it is compared to my unfinished Klingon model.


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

Quite, quite lovely.


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## pagni (Mar 20, 1999)

Stunning !


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## Landru (May 25, 2009)

Damn, that looks nice.


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

Thanks again guys! :thumbsup:

Okay... still playing around with my camera, here are my attempts at matching the old ViewMaster shots of the Enterprise (just for fun).


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## JGG1701 (Nov 9, 2004)

Pretty cool Mr. Shaw.
-Jim


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## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

Man that looks very close to the Viewmaster slide. Very good with the lighting.


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

Thanks guys!

Yeah, I'm planning on trying again once I figure out a better idea for getting the blue light.

Here is a quick comparison I made between my attempts and the original...








And a little more playing around attempting to match some of my favorite shots of the original model...








So I've been considering entering my model at a local model contest, but I'm not really sure this model is up to the quality needed for being judged. That, plus how do you explain that it isn't supposed to look like the Enterprise most people are expecting to see?

With that in mind, I took a number of images of the model in a setting that seemed like it might be similar to what it would face if I entered it.








Of course this may have nothing to do with the model itself... I might not be ready to have my work judged at this point (I've never had anything I've made judged before). And I know there are a lot of things I could do better with more experience.


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## pagni (Mar 20, 1999)

Are you kidding ?!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Enter away !:thumbsup:


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

Well, I still need to finish off the base... but I'll consider it. :thumbsup:


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

Beautiful work, sir!


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

Trek Ace said:


> Beautiful work, sir!


Wow, Thanks! That really means a lot to me. :thumbsup:


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

You nailed it! Great job!!


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## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

I'd say if you entered this in a contest and got anything less than a silver it was because the judges let petty jealousy cloud their judgement rather than because of any perceived flaws. 
I just love this piece! I give it a GOLD!!!


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

Thanks guys! :thumbsup:

I guess we'll see how she holds up when viewed by people in person tomorrow.

Oddly enough, recently I've been more worried about how to transport the model than how she'll do. The model comes apart, but she also needs to be protected from the rain. I'll hopefully work out some thing today.

I did finish a quick and dirty paint job on the base. I got the top surface as smooth as I could, painted the whole thing flat black, masked it so only the top surface was showing and painted it gloss black.

I'm not too worried about that base, because I'm putting some serious thought into getting a case for the model. And I'll most likely try to find a square wooden base (rather than the rectangular one that I have) to stain. So black for this one seemed like the best way to display the model for tomorrow.


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## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

Quote: "I'm not really sure this model is up to the quality needed for being judged. That, plus how do you explain that it isn't supposed to look like the Enterprise most people are expecting to see?"

Is using gloss black on the top of the base your atempt to replicate the image of the ship resting above the black tabletop in the TV episode? That would be a clever way to help viewers make the connection to the 33" model used in that scene.

Also, how about including a sheet (laminated maybe) next to your model showing a collage of photos of the 33" studio model from various episodes?


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

Trekkriffic said:


> Is using gloss black on the top of the base your atempt to replicate the image of the ship resting above the black tabletop in the TV episode? That would be a clever way to help viewers make the connection to the 33" model used in that scene.


Yeah, that was sort of the general idea. That, and for the last couple weeks I had had a black cloth cover over the stand for taking photos... which I never took off because it looked really nice that way.

I'll be making a run to Kinko's later today. This is what I plan on printing out...
 10 page write-up on the original 33 inch model (5 page write-up plus 5 pages of diagrams)
 a handful of reference photos printed on glossy photo stock paper
 a clean version of my plans at 2/3 scale (the original printed plans I used are drawn on and cut up)
Here is a shot of the model on the stand, the first page of the write-up and some of the images I plan on printing out...








I figure that even if the judges never see any of that stuff, it'll be nice to have on hand for discussing the model with anyone who is interested.


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## JGG1701 (Nov 9, 2004)

Something *TRULY* to be proud of Mr. Shaw.:thumbsup:
-Jim


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

I had an interesting day. I met a lot of nice people, and saw a lot of great models.

But I also spent much of the day standing on the far side of the display room watching people as they moved past my model on the table, and I realized two things... First, that most people saw my model as a plain build of an Enterprise model kit, and second, it really didn't matter because I really like my model.

I don't think I'll be entering this model (or the eventual _one-to-one_ scale version) into any more contests. I don't think there is any way to get people to see what it is that makes this model different than those attempting to replicate the 11 foot model. And I doubt that if the original model was entered into one of these contests that it would even be noticed as being the original.

In the end, I think there are only a handful of people out there that can see the difference... and care. And I think I'll stick to sharing the model with those people.

Thanks again for all the positive feedback you guys have given me in this thread! :thumbsup:


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## JGG1701 (Nov 9, 2004)

*A True Work Of Art*



Shaw said:


> But I also spent much of the day standing on the far side of the display room watching people as they moved past my model on the table, and I realized two things... First, that most people saw my model as a plain build of an Enterprise model kit, and second, it really didn't matter because I really like my model.


I think that most people don't realize the time and effort and research that was put into your model Mr. Shaw. It's too bad, cause I think they would appreciate it more. 
I know I did!
You have really done yourself *PROUD* and you should be.
Like I've mentioned before.......................
:thumbsup:A true work of art.:thumbsup:

-Jim


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

JGG1701 said:


> I think that most people don't realize the time and effort and research that was put into your model Mr. Shaw. It's too bad, cause I think they would appreciate it more.


Thanks... it was just a little disheartening because I was expecting an event put on by _historians_ to care about research and attempting to be historically accurate.

At any rate, this was the background information I left with the model... the timeline is still tentative at this point (I may make changes) but I thought it was enough to give the judges at NordicCon some idea about what they were looking at.


_33 inch model write-up_ (PDF, 1.6 MB)​
One person who I talked to suggested that I should have had images of the construction so people could see that it wasn't just another kit. When he found out that a good portion of the model was foamcore board and paper he seemed genuinely surprised.

In the end I have to admit that I wasn't totally surprised by the outcome. I had read that being accurate isn't always the best way to win at these contests... and that flashy, more visually interesting models often rate higher.

It is funny... my wife didn't believe me when I came home with nothing. She thought I was kidding around when I said that three kits got the awards. For a while I think she thought I was going to pull out an award and surprise her.


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## Gregatron (Mar 29, 2008)

As usual, I'm really, really impressed!


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## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

Not even an Honorable Mention eh? There is no justice.


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

Thanks guys!

I think I would have done better with an audience that knew what it was I was trying to do.

And to add insult to injury (though I'm not all that injured)... as I was looking through the image gallery posted by *rossjr*, my wife spotted me in the background of some of the shots looking... well, sorta dopey.








It is funny in that I had looked at those shots a couple times and hadn't seen me in them. Guess I forgot what I looked like. :freak:


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## USS Atlantis (Feb 23, 2008)

Don't feel too bad, Dave

You notice what I came away with - NADA

And realize that most of the judges were non-SF geeks - they are into aircraft, tanks, cars - if it's SF, it HAS to be flashy to get their attention

Though also notice the lighted TOS-E and the large Star Destroyer didn't win either

Just make the same vow I'm making - NEXT YEAR!!!

Ken


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

USS Atlantis said:


> Though also notice the lighted TOS-E and the large Star Destroyer didn't win either


Yeah... what was up with that?
I was sure (would have put money on it) that the Star Destroyer was going to win gold. 

But in the end I got to meet (in person) some great people and found out about resources in my area... so it was worth it to me! :thumbsup:


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## James Tiberius (Oct 23, 2007)

we sci-fi guys around here should get together sometime to judge eachothers stuff for praise.

yours still would have beat the destroyer in my book


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## pagni (Mar 20, 1999)

hmmm now let me see...I'm pretty sure I've got a virtual trophy around here somewhere...
because you were ROBBED !


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

pagni said:


> hmmm now let me see...I'm pretty sure I've got a virtual trophy around here somewhere...
> because you were ROBBED !


Thanks!

To be sure... I was disappointed, but not discouraged. I'm still trying to work out the details of bringing this thing to life at _one-to-one_ scale and in wood. 




James Tiberius said:


> yours still would have beat the destroyer in my book


Thanks!

I don't know... seeing that Star Destroyer in person was truly breath taking. It has given me a whole new level of respect for this build that I've been watching.

There were tons of things I found out about while I was there (mostly from Ken), so it was all worth it! :thumbsup:


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## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

That Star Destroyer is SICK man! Crazy good.


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