# Newbie here...have some basic Q's



## AcesFull (Jan 6, 2008)

First let me say that I am extremely excited to get into slot car racing. My uncle in Indianapolis used to be into it big time when we were kids and we used to go to his house...oh what a blast. Well, I now have 4 kids of my own and want them to enjoy it as much as I did.

I am building a raceway in the garage, I already built the table - 5'4" x 12',(I'll try and post some pics of the progress later), and will be putting a 4 lane, approx 70' of track on it.

My first question is: what is a good material to use on top of the plywood to lay the rack on that looks like grass? Second question is: What is a good power supply to go with? I'm thinking of powering each lane with it's own supply and about 6 power taps per lane (due to length). I've been doing some research and it seems that a 0-30VDC 10A supply would be a good buy. Kind of expensive though to put one on each lane. Any suggestions?

I added a pic of the first phase of the build. What do you think?


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## Scafremon (Dec 11, 2006)

That 0-30V 10A power supply is plenty for all 4 lanes. When people use separate power supplies for each lane, it is because they are usually using the std wall-wart transformers.

Six taps is overkill - i suggest trying just one, and then seeing if you need more. (I went from 7 taps to 3 taps on a 70' layout, and could not tell a difference).

As for grass under the track, it might be better to think about putting the grass-looking substance where the track isn't, and not neccesarily putting your track on top if the grass looking substance.


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## AcesFull (Jan 6, 2008)

Scafremon said:


> That 0-30V 10A power supply is plenty for all 4 lanes. When people use separate power supplies for each lane, it is because they are usually using the std wall-wart transformers.
> 
> Six taps is overkill - i suggest trying just one, and then seeing if you need more. (I went from 7 taps to 3 taps on a 70' layout, and could not tell a difference).
> 
> As for grass under the track, it might be better to think about putting the grass-looking substance where the track isn't, and not neccesarily putting your track on top if the grass looking substance.


So you are suggesting a single power supply for a 4 lane 70' track with maybe 3 power taps? Everything I've read stated a power tap every 12 to 15 connections, so that's where I got my number of taps. Also, couldn't I just use some indoor/outdoor carpet as an underlayment? That seems like it would work well and be relatively cheap.


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## RiderZ (Feb 19, 2007)

*!!!*

Welcome back to the hobby Acesfull!!! Looks like your off to good start-nice looking table.I agree with Scaf.I think power taps are over rated.Unless you plan on running some serious cars and serious racing, 2-3 taps will suffice.I have 50' lap lengths and no power taps.I've checked it all the way around my layout with a good volt meter and have true power through out.I use a 0-30V 5amp P/S.As far as the grass look cant help you there.Mine is just laid out on the top of painted 1/2" ply.Keep us posted on your progress.


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## AcesFull (Jan 6, 2008)

RiderZ said:


> Welcome back to the hobby Acesfull!!! Looks like your off to good start-nice looking table.I agree with Scaf.I think power taps are over rated.Unless you plan on running some serious cars and serious racing, 2-3 taps will suffice.I have 50' lap lengths and no power taps.I've checked it all the way around my layout with a good volt meter and have true power through out.I use a 0-30V 5amp P/S.As far as the grass look cant help you there.Mine is just laid out on the top of painted 1/2" ply.Keep us posted on your progress.


Thanks. I'm all jacked up about building this race track. My wife cannot believe how I'm getting into it and wanting to invest the time and money. I tell her that she'll love it and be asking for a pink car and controller in no time  . One of the things I was more worried about concerning power was of possible surging when cars leave the track (crash). I figured with each lane independantly powered, I could avoid this. But what do know? Answer: nothing. That's why I'm here asking you guys. I've also decided to go with the carpet option as it's wasiest to lay out. I don't want to remove the side walls because I routed all the corners out to look nice and might have to re-do it. We'll see. I'll keep you posted.


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## RiderZ (Feb 19, 2007)

*!!!*

Yes-wiring each lane independently will prevent the power surges.I ran the power wires to power blocks and ran wires from the blocks to the power track sections.This powers each lane seperatley.Having a power supply for each lane would be quite expensive.Unless you use the wall-warts.Purchase a good adjustable power supply.You will be glad you did-and your cars will thank-you.  If funds permit be sure to pick up some better controllers.Parma makes a good controller called an "Econo" with three wires which enables you to wire in brakes.I kinda thought my wife would enjoy racing but turns out she's dont.She has raced with us a few times and even WON a few races but its not her cup of tea.


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## Scafremon (Dec 11, 2006)

The table looks great Aces! :thumbsup: 

As for a power supply, the key is 'regulated'. These type of power supplies keep the voltage constant, and prevent the surges you get when you use a wall-wart to provide power to more then one lane. The voltage adjustment lets you, well, select a voltage. You can use one of these on a multi-lane track, and you will not get power surges. There will be some wiring involved, and we can provide details as you need them.

As for power taps, like RiderZ stated, I'm not sold on the premise that you need a tap every 12-15 connections, or feet, or whatever. It sure can't hurt to have that many taps (except maybe the wallet for terminal blocks and wire), but I'm not sure they are needed. If your table design is such that it would be a major pain to add additional taps later (when you knew they were needed), then I would lean towards adding them now. On the other hand, if you can add them later, then I'd say go that route.

As for carpet, my opinion is that the track needs a solid surface to sit on. The track will basically be floating on the carpet - making it difficult to insure tight track connections, and making it difficult to simply take a rag and wipe off the dust of the track. 

If the carpet is for cosmetic (grass looking) purposes, then it serves no purpose under the track, so you may as well lay down your track, and fill your infield areas with it.


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## AcesFull (Jan 6, 2008)

RiderZ said:


> Yes-wiring each lane independently will prevent the power surges.I ran the power wires to power blocks and ran wires from the blocks to the power track sections.This powers each lane seperatley.Having a power supply for each lane would be quite expensive.Unless you use the wall-warts.Purchase a good adjustable power supply.You will be glad you did-and your cars will thank-you.  If funds permit be sure to pick up some better controllers.Parma makes a good controller called an "Econo" with three wires which enables you to wire in brakes.I kinda thought my wife would enjoy racing but turns out she's dont.She has raced with us a few times and even WON a few races but its not her cup of tea.


Definetely going to power each lane independantly and from the responses you guys have given, I'll make a 0-30 VDC 10A adjustable power supply. That's the nice thing about my job, I have mechanical and electrical engineers at my disposal. Plus, since we are a high volume mfg., I get great prices on pretty much any part from any supplier. I also plan on building 2 driver stations on each side of the table, in the open space, with the electrical hookups to run any type of controller. If I let my wife win a few times, she'll love it. She hates losing to me at anything, so if she thinks she can beat me, she'll keep racing. Should be fun.


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

As others stated, having a single 10A regulated power supply is more than adequate to power all 4 lanes for anything other than very high downforce magnet cars, of the $150+ per car variety. You will not have power surges with a regulated supply that can source five times the current that the most demanding stock cars can draw. On the other hand, having independent variable power supplies per lane will allow you to run different lanes at different voltages. This may be useful for handicapping or dealing with kids who treat controllers as toggle switches. But for general basement fun racing, having four power expensive supplies is overkill. If you are truly concerned about power and want to save space and electricity, use a single 20A or higher capacity supply. Finally, since you are running on a road course, being able to adjust the voltage above 20V is unnecessary for anything other than testing the integrity of your table walls.

I recommend 3 jumpers at least for a track that size, with the jumpers placed at the beginning of long straights. The exact placement will depend on your layout. These will save you hassles in the long run, as the track gets more used and especially if you have large temperature changes where the track will expand and contract a bit. 

Having drivers stations on more than one side of the table is quaint and kind of nice for just fooling around kind of racing. However, if you want to run timed races with track marshals, putting all of the drivers on one side of the table is a lot more convenient for everyone involved.

If you want to be able to use any type of controller, I recommend wiring you drivers stations for alligator clips, and preferably, a setup with the conductors inside a hole rather than protruding.

Laying carpet around the track can look really nice. I recommend mounting the track to the table first, installing the turn borders, and then laying the carpet around the track and borders. 

The bottom line is that you should do whatever you are most comfortable with and whatever brings you the most enjoyment from your track. This hobby tends to be a lifelong thing for a lot of people, so whatever you do now will mostly inspire you to do something more or different the next time through. Don't be afraid to approach it in an iterative fashion, which may mean laying track on a painted table for now, playing with the track like that for 6 months, a year or two, and then seeing what you feel inspired to do for the next round. It's rare that a serious slothead ever gets everything exactly the way they want it the first time out, with no desire to change a thing. In my opinion, that's part of the reason that keeps the hobby exciting: the next big challenge.


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## AcesFull (Jan 6, 2008)

I have 4 little ones and the power to their lanes is something I would like to have control over without affecting the lane I will be on. My son destoys everything he touches and I'm sure he will do the same with the slot cars if I don't lower his lane power. But like I said, I do not want to have to run slow when the kids are on the track. Maybe I'll just install a single supply to get started and save up and purchase or build additional supplies down the road.

The track I want to build is called "Scenic 70" found on hoslotcarracing.com. It has 6 straights. The owner of the site, when I spoke with him, suggested the power tap locations that I mentioned previously.

The reason I am putting 2 driver stations per side is first, it's just a garage track and I do not forsee any serious racing where a marshal would be needed and second, I am going to build retractable work stations next to each station towards the outsides for people to set their stuff on (not sure what stuff, but I was thinking it would be nice to have a little area for supplies and stuff next to you while racing). If you needed to work on your car, it would be convenient.

How many controller hookup options are there? I've seen banana plug type and posts for clips. Are there any others that I should be aware of. Ideally, I would like to be able to accomodate any type that might show up to race.

I know it's my first track build, but I want to try and get it right. I do not want to leave out anything that may be important. Thanks for all the info and all suggestions are welcome. :thumbsup:


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## RiderZ (Feb 19, 2007)

*!!!*

Acesfull i'm glad to see an eager newcomer to this great hobby.As AFXToo said i would play around a little bit with layouts & such before you commit to anything permanent.I am very peticular about my layout and constantly making track joint adjustments.Maybe move some pieces around here & there to see if thats gains any improvement.I've been back into this hobby right at a year now and still not wanting to commit to anything permanent yet.I bought my first set (Tomy Big Block Battlers) on New Years Day 07' .


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## AcesFull (Jan 6, 2008)

RiderZ said:


> Acesfull i'm glad to see an eager newcomer to this great hobby.As AFXToo said i would play around a little bit with layouts & such before you commit to anything permanent.I am very peticular about my layout and constantly making track joint adjustments.Maybe move some pieces around here & there to see if thats gains any improvement.I've been back into this hobby right at a year now and still not wanting to commit to anything permanent yet.I bought my first set (Tomy Big Block Battlers) on New Years Day 07' .


Eager to say the least. I bought the super international set for a starter set, but to build the one I would first like to attempt, I still need to buy 130 more peices of varying sizes. I really can't afford to buy all the track, power, control and table goodies all at once, so I will probably be playing with multiple temporary track designs as I buy pieces for the next 6 months. Sportbikes are my other hobby and that tends to be a bit expensive as well. Right now my focus is on a solid table as a foundation. I built the biggest table I had room for in the garage. Once the table is finished I'll begin playing with the first track and go from there. Knowing me though, I'll get impatient and want to go bigger asap. Should be fun though.


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

Little ones ... yeah they can create unique challenges. The main reason race set power supplies are so wimpy is safety considerations. None of the wall warts that come with race sets can put out more than 1 amp. The Tomy version puts out a mere 0.33 amps. If you put a 10A or higher unit on your track you'll have to make sure the younger kids don't run it unattended. Maybe build a small locker with a lockable door under the table and put the power supply in the locker along with the controllers when the track is not being supervised.

The best alligator clip hookup design is to put the conductors under or in a hole in the drivers station where the clips have to reach through to hook up. The top surface, or front if you do it vertically, remains flush with nothing sticking out. Drivers stations with protruding connections are bad news but all too common. The last time I raced at a track with protruding connectors (2 weeks ago) the heat sink on my Difalco power transistor shorted out the power supply on the track, which was thankfully fused. I'll post a picture if you can't envision what I'm describing.

A layout with a lot of straights, sweeping corners, and an overpass tend to be popular with kids. Also, you can design a layout that can be easily converted from a road course to an oval. If your kids like NASCAR or Indy Car racing they may appreciate being able to run the track in NASCAR or Indy Car configuration every once in a while. Oval racing is a blast and a nice change of pace. I can post some convertible designs if you are interested.


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## AcesFull (Jan 6, 2008)

If I power all four lanes with a single 0-30VDC 10A supply, when the kids race at lower voltages, I will have to race at the same low voltage. I think I will wire up smaller supplies which will switch each lane independantly from the main supply to a smaller wall wart type. That way I can switch any 3 lanes the kids might be on to a lower supply while maintaing higher voltages on my lane. It's a pretty simple task using 1 or 2 switches per lane. I could install them under the track where I'll have my supplies and put them in a locked enclosure. That's one reason I wanted seperate power supplies for each lane, as the kids get better I could adjust the voltage of each lane to their skill level. That route is expensive though. Also, where is a good place to get the driver station terminal parts?


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## Scafremon (Dec 11, 2006)

AcesFull said:


> If I power all four lanes with a single 0-30VDC 10A supply, when the kids race at lower voltages, I will have to race at the same low voltage.


I've got a feeling the kids aren't going to be real happy if Dad is running at a higher voltage, and getting in 2 laps to each of their own.

I can see it now: A few years from now, you will be sitting down with the kids, confessing to them that there isn't really a Santa Claus, and that Dad has been running at 30volts compared to their 10 volts.


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## AcesFull (Jan 6, 2008)

Scafremon said:


> I've got a feeling the kids aren't going to be real happy if Dad is running at a higher voltage, and getting in 2 laps to each of their own.
> 
> I can see it now: A few years from now, you will be sitting down with the kids, confessing to them that there isn't really a Santa Claus, and that Dad has been running at 30volts compared to their 10 volts.


They already don't belive in Santa Clause, so I'm safe there. I've actually been caught not playing fairly in some games with the kids  . If we were to have an actual race, I would make sure the power was equal, but while just fartin' around on the track, I don't want to be limited.


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## micyou03 (Apr 8, 2003)

AcesFull said:


> If I power all four lanes with a single 0-30VDC 10A supply, when the kids race at lower voltages, I will have to race at the same low voltage. I think I will wire up smaller supplies which will switch each lane independantly from the main supply to a smaller wall wart type. That way I can switch any 3 lanes the kids might be on to a lower supply while maintaing higher voltages on my lane. It's a pretty simple task using 1 or 2 switches per lane. I could install them under the track where I'll have my supplies and put them in a locked enclosure. That's one reason I wanted seperate power supplies for each lane, as the kids get better I could adjust the voltage of each lane to their skill level. That route is expensive though. Also, where is a good place to get the driver station terminal parts?


If you are putting in driver's stations in, why not add a voltage control to each driver station so the kids or whoever can independantly turn the voltage down to a level they are comfortable with?


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## rudykizuty (Aug 16, 2007)

Thinking back to my own boyhood in a household where my brother and I were raised on table top sports strategy and sim games that we played with Dad all the time (and still do today......APBA, Strat-O-Matic, etc.), I tend to believe that any time your boys are running cars on the track at the same time as you, they're "racin' against Dad". Sure, I lost my share of ballgames until I developed an understanding of sound baseball strategy. That's just part of learning. But beyond that, the playing field was level. 

But if you told me that my Dad's dice were sometimes loaded so that his hitters had more power or his runners were always fast, while mine were sometimes loaded to be weak or slow.......then I probably would have lost interest in playing. 

Just my two cents..........I'm sure you don't want to be racing alone.


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## AcesFull (Jan 6, 2008)

micyou03 said:


> If you are putting in driver's stations in, why not add a voltage control to each driver station so the kids or whoever can independantly turn the voltage down to a level they are comfortable with?


Definetely a consideration. My kids are very young right now though and I don't want them to have access to such a feature. I got a free power supply from work, 24VDC 12 A, all I need to do is put in meters on the front panel and add the spec'd rheostat for control. I can then wire this into the 4 driver stations @ full potential. At that point I can install another meter and control for each driver to have independant control. Do you think this is something people might like to have? Fos the kids, I can still put in a diverter switch that lowers their power to a set point until the gain more experience. Wiring is not an issue as I do that for a living. See pic below.


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## AcesFull (Jan 6, 2008)

rudykizuty said:


> Thinking back to my own boyhood in a household where my brother and I were raised on table top sports strategy and sim games that we played with Dad all the time (and still do today......APBA, Strat-O-Matic, etc.), I tend to believe that any time your boys are running cars on the track at the same time as you, they're "racin' against Dad". Sure, I lost my share of ballgames until I developed an understanding of sound baseball strategy. That's just part of learning. But beyond that, the playing field was level.
> 
> But if you told me that my dad's dice were sometimes loaded so that his hitters had more power or his runners were always fast, while mine were sometimes loaded to be weak or slow.......then I probably would have lost interest in playing.
> 
> Just my two cents..........I'm sure you don't want to be racing alone.


I do not plan on cheating my kids. I just want them to start slow and work their way up. I think if they see dad's car flying around it might give them some incentive and something to work towards. I'm not made of money and cannot afford to continually replace cars because of their lack of control. As I see them get better and better, I'll give them more power. On race day for us as a family, I will run at the same power level as them.


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## rudykizuty (Aug 16, 2007)

Woah, wasn't suggesting you were planning to cheat them. I'm truly sorry, as I didn't mean to make it sound that way. I was just thinking out loud about keeping them interested, that's all. 

I'll go back to minding my own business now. Again, sorry if I offended.


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## valongi (Dec 23, 2007)

Aces,

You could do what you have to do with the power, and not even make it a known issue with the kids. As they get better with the cars, you could give them more juice, and chalk up the increase in speed they see to them getting better  They'll enjoy their hobby and gain confidence... and certainly keep their interest. Everyone wins!


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## Scafremon (Dec 11, 2006)

I agree with Rudy's comment that anytime the kids and dad have cars on the track, there is a race going on. If dad is lapping the kids because of additional available power, then it won't be as much of an incentive to them, as compared to if you are lapping them at the same voltage. Having said that, I understand your points, and it looks like creating the custom electronics is fairly simple for you.

While I personally would not need adjustable voltage controls for each lane, I can think of other custom features that might be fun to have on the track. With your electrical skills, maybe you would be interested in some other ideas.

How about having the voltage drop some based on the number of laps completed, and then raised back up based on timed pit stops. A reed switch could initiate an incremental voltage drop for a lane with each lap. A seperate reed switch could initiate a timer that would slowly increase the voltage back up. Park between the reeds and you can get restored to full power.


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## AcesFull (Jan 6, 2008)

rudykizuty said:


> Woah, wasn't suggesting you were planning to cheat them. I'm truly sorry, as I didn't mean to make it sound that way. I was just thinking out loud about keeping them interested, that's all.
> 
> I'll go back to minding my own business now. Again, sorry if I offended.


Sorry if I sounded offended, I'm not. Like I said, I've been caught before, not playing fair. Trust me, I value everyone's opinions about the subject here. feel free to think out loud. No hard feelings.


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## Crimnick (May 28, 2006)

AcesFull said:


> Definetely a consideration. My kids are very young right now though and I don't want them to have access to such a feature. I got a free power supply from work, 24VDC 12 A, all I need to do is put in meters on the front panel and add the spec'd rheostat for control. I can then wire this into the 4 driver stations @ full potential. At that point I can install another meter and control for each driver to have independant control. Do you think this is something people might like to have? Fos the kids, I can still put in a diverter switch that lowers their power to a set point until the gain more experience. Wiring is not an issue as I do that for a living. See pic below.


No offense but,

You lucky bastard!

I'm just getting ready for fork over a couple bucks (looks over shoulder  ) for a power supply...

Well done!


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## AcesFull (Jan 6, 2008)

Crimnick said:


> No offense but,
> 
> You lucky bastard!
> 
> ...


I manage an R&D lab for and OEM and in our product lines we have various power supplies of all ranges which is nice because I have acces to all the shematics so I can just get the components and put them in my own enclosure. Plus I can work with the electrical engineers to make sure everything will operate to the specs I need. Not many perks where I work, but this is definetely one right now.


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## AcesFull (Jan 6, 2008)

*Update:*

Not much of an update but I just got done installing 2 new 4' flourescents above the table for lighting. They're sweet. Also decided to lay out some track to play on until the weekend when I put on the top layer of plywood and begin wiring underneath as well as build driver stations. Enjoy


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## martybauer31 (Jan 27, 2004)

More track, less table junk!!!!


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## AcesFull (Jan 6, 2008)

martybauer31 said:


> More track, less table junk!!!!


Roger that!!! I have a second International set I purchased arriving today. I bought the second set beacause it was economically a smarter way of obtaining more track versus buying individual pieces and you get 4 more cars. Still alot of work to be done, but that little track was a blast for my wife and me last night. We were up till 10 (I normally go to bed around 8 because I wake up @ 3:30 for work). Good news though, my wife absolutely loved it. My kids also ran for a few minutes before bedtime and loved it as well. I can tell this is going to be a whole lot of fun for the whole family. :thumbsup:


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