# R2 Leif Ericsson as MacArthur Question



## mikephys (Mar 16, 2005)

It was mentioned in a thread awhile back that the Leif Ericsson model served as the inspiration for the Battlecruiser MacArthur in the Niven/Pournelle novel, The Mote in God’s Eye. This was news to me! It has also really increased my interest in R2 release of the restored kit later this year. (Hopefully July?)

Question: Does anyone know if there will be decals for building the MacArthur in the kit? Are there after market MacArthur decals available? What (if any) modifications have to be made to the model to make it an “accurate” MacArthur?

Thanks!


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## USS Atlantis (Feb 23, 2008)

Chris Doll did a MacArthur some years back

Quite a bit of work needed to turn the Leif into the Mac

http://www.starshipmodeler.net/contest4/ss_s15.htm


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## cozmo (Nov 29, 2004)

Here is the story, straight from Jerry Pournelle:

Chaos Manor

Go here for many other versions made from the kit, or a similar starting point:
Nyrath's Leif Ericsson page

Some other versions:
Small MacArthur

Some MacArthur style decals:


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## mikephys (Mar 16, 2005)

Wow, guys! Thanks for the help!
Mike


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## Nyrath (May 3, 2004)

Rick Sternbach made a painting of the MacArthur that was basically the Leif Ericson with the tail fins removed
http://www.projectrho.com/SSC/model.html#paintings

Cozmo has the appropriate decals


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## cozmo (Nov 29, 2004)

You are welcome, I am really fond of that spaceship.


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## mikephys (Mar 16, 2005)

Yikes! If Rick Sternbach says that's what the MacArthur looks like, it must be so!

I really enjoyed the Motie books, and I'm very glad to have the chance to build a version of the MacArthur depicted in them.


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## fluke (Feb 27, 2001)

I know that Chris Doll guy...ahh...he's OK. :tongue:


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## Joe Brown (Nov 16, 1999)

At Wonderfest, he told me that he needed to score some engines and wings for his RV... :thumbsup:


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## fluke (Feb 27, 2001)

That sounds like Chris....I wonder if he drove that sucka this year?


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## USS Atlantis (Feb 23, 2008)

If you read the write-up on that link I gave for Chris' version - you'll see that it was based on notes he took from listening to Larry Niven talk about the MacArthur

Can't get closer to the source than that

My money? Chris' is the _official_ version - all others are bad imitators


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## cozmo (Nov 29, 2004)

USS Atlantis said:


> My money? Chris' is the _official_ version - all others are bad imitators


That's kind of prejudiced and insulting, don't you think?

Just to start, Spadoni's is


> His design for INSS MacArthur is the one officially sanctioned by Niven & Pournelle.


As far as I know, Doll's is the first and I really like it. But, it may not be what other readers have envisioned.


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## Joe Brown (Nov 16, 1999)

Well, I really love Chris's take on the design -- however, the Spadoni artwork comes closer to what I envisioned in my mind when I originally read the novel. So, I'm a heretic 'cause I like them* both*. :thumbsup:


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## Nyrath (May 3, 2004)

Well, that just means we'll have to make a series of models, one for each version, and mount them side by side for comparison.


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## BlackbirdCD (Oct 31, 2003)

I'm thrilled that this comes up every once in a while - and thank you all for the kind words, I had a lot of fun with that model.

It's true that I grabbed the overall design from a late-night public-access interview of Larry Niven. In it he showed drawings he'd commissioned for the INSS MacArthur and Lenin from the book he co-authored with Jerry Pournelle. At the time I didn't have a blank videotape (it was that long ago), and I didn't want to miss anything so I grabbed my sketchbook and went along with the show.

The sketch I used for my own INSS MacArthure model, as it turns out, was from a slide of Niven's LENIN sketches. I didn't know this until after I'd finished my model, and brought it to show him in person at a local SF writing convention. He obliged my pestering (at the behest of the late Dr. Robert L. Forward who was also in attendance, and a wonderful person to chat with), and took a look at my MacArthur model.

"OH, I see you've built LENIN!" he said with a smile. I tried to explain, that no I'd built the MacArthur - but of course he was correct in every way. But he did sign the base, which is still somewhat visible.

Wish I could find that program. I pretty much just like all the designs in this family of ships here anyway, so it's all fun.


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## BlackbirdCD (Oct 31, 2003)

cozmo said:


> As far as I know, Doll's is the first and I really like it. But, it may not be what other readers have envisioned.


My version isn't even what I'd envisioned when I read the novel


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## BlackbirdCD (Oct 31, 2003)

Joe Brown said:


> At Wonderfest, he told me that he needed to score some engines and wings for his RV... :thumbsup:


Gimme some paw! WrooWrooWrooWrooWroooooooooo!



Fluke said:


> That sounds like Chris....I wonder if he drove that sucka this year?


Not this year, considering it next year though. Depends on time off, and assessing just how spendy it will be to burn the gas.


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## fluke (Feb 27, 2001)

Understood Chris! Next year I will be at WonderFest with my Jessy - Salzo 1/24 BSG Raptor and what other nifty projects I can complete.

Can't wait to see the pics.....I assume you took some 'G' rated as well? :tongue:


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## cozmo (Nov 29, 2004)

Nyrath said:


> Well, that just means we'll have to make a series of models, one for each version, and mount them side by side for comparison.


You first :tongue:

I have too many other things to use the Galactic Cruiser for to build a MacArthur a-la Sternbach

The Spadoni Mac intrigues me though, it could fit into another universe I'm working on. It would also give me a reason to finally get a Mercury 9 or Apollo 27 for a starting point.


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## Joe Brown (Nov 16, 1999)

cozmo said:


> ...It would also give me a reason to finally get a Mercury 9 or Apollo 27 for a starting point.


Stop Doing That!!!! That's what *I* was thinking, and I was hoping to beat John P. to the punch for the first time ever! :thumbsup:


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## cozmo (Nov 29, 2004)

Well geeze, if y'all weren't so secretive, we wouldn't have to read your minds.

And its not like you haven't beaten any one to complete a project. :tongue:


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## MGagen (Dec 18, 2001)

_Mote_ is my favorite SF novel. I've spent a lot of time figuring out details of the MacArthur -- both interior and exterior.

I love Chris Doll's model, although his spherical shape for the hangar doors is problematic. They wouldn't be "flat" under spin gravity. I am intrigued that Niven told him it was the _Lenin_. That much larger battle cruiser is not given as much of a description in the novel as the _Mac_.

Reading the article "Building The Mote" were Niven and Pournelle mention the Leif Ericsson gave me quite an "aha!" moment many years ago. I was picturing the ship very clearly in my mind from the book's description and it seemed vaguely familiar. Suddenly it was all clear.

Of course they mention that the model would need _some_ modifications to make it into the _MacArthur_. I set about figuring out what these might be. While it is not near complete, I put together a CG model to see how the LE would look if it's cross section was adjusted to give the hangar doors a properly concentric curve. Remember, the ship spins when in freefall to simulate gravity. The hangar doors are mentioned as gravitationally flat under spin and there is a scene where the ship's company are assembled in the hangar, standing on the doors. The rest of the outer hull would also tend to have cylindrical features, since the interior spaces would naturally be build this way for spin configuration. Here is the result (sans fins). This does not incorporate all of my ideas, but it does give a look at the minimum changes needed to make the _Leif Ericsson_ into the _MacArthur_. Click for enlargements:

   

I did this back in '06 and haven't returned to it. I think there is a more nuanced way to get the proper profile without looking so much like a whisky bottle. I have an image in my minds eye of the Deco styling at the top of the Chrysler Building. Perhaps I'll get back to this project one of these days.

To all who have never read _Mote_. Do yourself a favor and read it at once. It's a great book!

M.


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## Nyrath (May 3, 2004)

Of course I have Mr. MGagen's renders on my Leif Ericson website.

The MOTE IN GOD'S EYE introduced the magic force field the "Langston Field" and the FTL method called the "Alderson Drive." These are totally fictitious, but they are carefully crafted to allow the possibility of interstellar combat. They work so well that game designers for decades have been stealing them.

http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/fasterlight.php#Alderson_Drive
http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/spacewardefense.php#Force_Fields~Langston_Field

So the novel is worth reading just for that. It is also arguably the best "First contact with aliens" novel ever written.


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## cozmo (Nov 29, 2004)

I guess you _don't_ have to use the Galactic Cruiser as a starting point.

Sorry Joe, it just kind of fell together:


Lots left to do, and some decisions to make on which part to use and where to put it. But I think the Mercury 9 and some Galactic Cruiser left over parts make a pretty nice MacArthur hybrid.


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## MGagen (Dec 18, 2001)

Coszmo,

Very nice! You have the makings of a very respectable MacArthur, there. It has the needed cylindrical profile; it is generally "dart" shaped; and matches the book's description in most other ways.

There are two points to keep in mind, if you want it to be extremely accurate: The hangar doors should be further forward, more near the center of the length. Also, it needs the hydrogen scoops. Perhaps those are what you've depicted near the ends of the wings. If so, great! The engine cowls on the LE were what LN & JP were considering scoops.

One point that is not explicitly addressed in the text: a vessel like this would most likely be able to land on it's tail. The one landfall mentioned in the book has them settling into a "cradle" prepared for this purpose on a low gravity moonbase. I can't help but think that a military vessel such as this would have the ability to make an emergency landfall in an undeveloped area. It would need some kind of folding landing legs or reinforced fins to rest upon that would extend further aft of the engine bell.

However you decide to finish this, I look forward to seeing it. There can't be too many fan tributes to such an illustrious and well realized space ship as the INSS MacArthur.

M.


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## Joe Brown (Nov 16, 1999)

cozmo said:


> Sorry Joe, it just kind of fell together...



Go for it, dude! :thumbsup:

For a week or two after Wonderfest I am always too wiped out for any modeling.


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## Nyrath (May 3, 2004)

Cozmo, that's incredible! Nice work.


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## BlackbirdCD (Oct 31, 2003)

I'm ready to build after Wonderfest, but my desk is too messy


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## cozmo (Nov 29, 2004)

MGagen said:


> M.


I never knew the shuttle bay was amidships, oh well. The way the kit was molded, it just made it easy to put the shuttle bay where I put it.

Though hard to see in these pictures, there are intakes next to the hull. I intend to represent the outer nacelles as more fusion engines with an intake spike like those on an SR-71.

Just thinking about how to make it work with rotational gravity *and* stern down gravity gives me a headache. With the outer fins attached, stern down landing gear would take too much reworking. I'll leave that to somebody else.

I guess I should have re-read the book before doing this, but it just kind of fell together. I built it as I had pictured it in my mind with help from the Spadoni artwork but using the Galactic Cruiser kit as the originating design. I had many more kit parts, but they looked wrong when used as is.

I also want to display it with the other Galactic Cruisers, so I didn't want it to be _too_ different from them. It is a beefed up hot rod battle cruiser. Not so much of an explorer, a kick butt bad boy meant to intimidate. Just like from the book. There are pirates in the SSC universe.


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