# Make Your Voice Heard! Order Now!



## falcondesigns (Oct 30, 2002)

CultTVman has put the 1/350 Scale TOS Enterprise from R2 on his site for pre order.Now is the time to be heard and put your money where your mouths are,and order it so that R2 can see how many moellers want this model!IF YOU DONT SUPPORT THIS EFFORT,DONT CRY IF IT'S NOT DONE!Your money is your voice,use it!


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## Capt. Krik (May 26, 2001)

I just placed my pre-order with Cult. Maybe this kit will finally get produced if Round 2 sees enough interest.


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## HabuHunter32 (Aug 22, 2009)

Preordered mine from cult's this am ! Make it so !...sorry wrong series !

I sure hope this works and we all get our grail kit done ! Fingers crossed. Steady as she goes Mr. Sulu.... :thumbsup:


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## falcondesigns (Oct 30, 2002)

I did as well,and that's what I'm hopeing for....


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## phicks (Nov 5, 2002)

Guys...my understanding of the styrene model business is that you have to sell around 200,000 units to make a profit. All of us pre-ordering kits would only add up to a couple of dozen. I don't think it would influence a go-no go decision by R2.


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## rkoenn (Dec 18, 2007)

phicks said:


> Guys...my understanding of the styrene model business is that you have to sell around 200,000 units to make a profit. All of us pre-ordering kits would only add up to a couple of dozen. I don't think it would influence a go-no go decision by R2.


I will order it as I really want it, but I think your post pretty well rationalizes it. We are a drop it a very big bucket compared to what they need to make money on it. To me the thing that should seal the deal for them one way or the other is what kind of sales they had on the other two 1/350 Enterprises they produced, the NX-01 and NCC-1701A. If those sold in sufficient numbers to make money then I would think this one would also, if not then this one is unlikely as well.

Bob K.


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## Opus Penguin (Apr 19, 2004)

Regardless, I still pre-ordered in case it does come out. I am hoping if enough order here it will be enough to raise interest at RC2.


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## James Tiberius (Oct 23, 2007)

done at cult


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## SDF-3 (Mar 15, 2010)

Done as well


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## Magesblood (May 12, 2008)

I would like to make my voice heard but he's the guy who won't sell to me.

like my money's been devalued.


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## SDF-3 (Mar 15, 2010)

Magesblood said:


> I would like to make my voice heard but he's the guy who won't sell to me.
> 
> like my money's been devalued.


I know you just HAD to be heard Mages but let's not start another Cult trash thread, please.


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

Put my pre-order in.


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## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

Preorder submitted!


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Because R2 _doesn't_ know we want the kit to be made?


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## PhantomStranger (Apr 20, 2009)

phicks said:


> Guys...my understanding of the styrene model business is that you have to sell around 200,000 units to make a profit.


 If that is the case, we have A LOT of catching up to do.

Just for curiosity's sake, how many sci-fi modelers do you think there are? Of course there really is no way to know for sure.


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## Kit (Jul 9, 2009)

phicks said:


> Guys...my understanding of the styrene model business is that you have to sell around 200,000 units to make a profit. All of us pre-ordering kits would only add up to a couple of dozen. I don't think it would influence a go-no go decision by R2.


I believe that's a pretty high number, although I know that decades ago, that was normal, or even low for a popular kit. My impression is that some of the releases we're interested in today are produced in the range of something like 15,000 units, less than a tenth of what you're talking about. I could be wrong.


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## Magesblood (May 12, 2008)

SDF-3 said:


> I know you just HAD to be heard Mages but let's not start another Cult trash thread, please.


Hi there. Name's Rudolph. You might recognize me by my shiny red nose and the antlers.

I scour the internet for information like reference pics, size details and other stuff to make you happy.

I send a lot of people model parts and decals and instructions at no cost to them - including shipping. Does anyone even give me feedback for that kind of thing? Nope.

I am quick to offer a tip or suggestion of praise to someone's model.

Point is, I'd like to participate in your reindeer games but my contributions aren't recognized and phooey that went down years ago is still brought up. I'm a valuable member of the community and would like to take part in your little democratic petition you've got going but I can't because someone decides to hold a grudge for a whole DECADE and I'm the bad guy.

Or was the whole Rudolph moral lost of some of you?

I'd like to see the Enterprise in 350 scale. It'll happen when it happens or it won't.


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## Tiberious (Nov 20, 2001)

$109.99 at Tower Hobbies vs. $119.99 at Cult's.

Man, I got 5 kids ta feed! (No, not really, just 2 and another at college but that wasn't a fun Sci-Fi reference)

Ok, placed my order (and then some)...

Moebius 1/32 Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea Flying Sub 1 $56.99 
Back Order: 
Round2 1/350 Star Trek TOS Enterprise Premier Edition 1 $109.99 
AMT Star Trek Romulan Bird of Prey 1 $17.59 
Round2 1/650 Star Trek TOS Enterprise Tholian Web Ed. 1 $21.79 

Supported our hobby AND ticked off the wife all in one mighty blow, but got $30.00 off with the coupon code for a purchase over $200.00 (

Tib


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## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

A message from your friendly moderator...

Please refrain from baiting.

Please refrain from using this forum as a place to air your personal grievances.

Please stick to the topic at hand.

Your cooperation is greatly appreciated.


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## Magesblood (May 12, 2008)

roger wilco


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## falcondesigns (Oct 30, 2002)

It does not matter which vender you support,or LHS,or internet business you want to order it from,what matters is when they (R2) decides to disscuss this as a project,there is enough evidence for a sucessful project.The amount of orders at that price point is what matters.


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## jaws62666 (Mar 25, 2009)

I just preordered mine. Lets keep the orders flowing. We need to have this kit made!!


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## trekman (Apr 2, 2007)

At last, even the hope of a 1/350 TOS E has caused me to order!! Mr Sulu fire FULL PHASERS!!!!


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## rtbeuke (Sep 29, 2008)

Pre-Ordered Mine!


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## rtbeuke (Sep 29, 2008)

To Magesblood,

Order it from Tower Hobbies! As Falcondesigns said "It does not matter which vendor you support,or LHS, . . ." just get the order in!


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## Magesblood (May 12, 2008)

Ah. See, I thought it was site-specific as the first post in this thread implied.

My fault for being too rigid.


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## Capt. Krik (May 26, 2001)

Yes, Round 2 knows we want this kit. The one thing in our favor is it seems a lot of people at Round 2 want to produce it including, according to the scuttlebutt, Tom Lowe. So that's something in our favor.

Will a hundred or so pre-orders convince them to produce it...No. Let's face it pre-orders aren't actual sales. They mean little, really. Especially when there are people who pre-order items then never follow through when the product is available. 

Still, it can't hurt to have the pre-order in and hope the kit is made.


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## James Tiberius (Oct 23, 2007)

Its cool mages, there are always other possibilities on where order from.

BTW guys, I took my discussion to Phantom via PM, I apologized for sometimes being overly.........critical and vocal about some of my qualms over at R2. He was kind enough to write back, we're cool, and he did mention that all of the various threads both positive and negative clamouring for this thing is finally getting the attention of higher ups at R2.

Mages, what happend between you and Steve, PM please!


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## kahn1701 (Jul 11, 2005)

:hat: X4....


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## RICHjm (Jun 14, 2010)

I'm in as well.
Steady as she goes...


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

I don't mean to be out of line, but to me this is poor business all around by Cult, other retailers and Round 2! If there is going to be a kit, then announce it with a firm delivery date! Only then will I place an order, otherwise it is just a wish. The only reason I see for this type of deceiving business practice, is to gage how much interest there is in the project. I think we have seen here how much there is, how much more proof do they need. Who is to say ALL those who pre-order, will still be in a position to still pay for it a year and a half from now? How many orders will be cancelled if there are ANY production delays? How many are there like me who WILL buy one once it is made official and produced? Seems like more games and I don’t like jumping through hoops for people. As I said, I don't understand what business plan they are working from!!!!


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

RSN said:


> I don't mean to be out of line, but to me this is poor business all around by Cult, other retailers and Round 2! If there is going to be a kit, then announce it with a firm delivery date! Only then will I place an order, otherwise it is just a wish. The only reason I see for this type of deceiving business practice, is to gage how much interest there is in the project. I think we have seen here how much there is, how much more proof do they need. Who is to say ALL those who pre-order, will still be in a position to still pay for it a year and a half from now? How many orders will be cancelled if there are ANY production delays? How many are there like me who WILL buy one once it is made official and produced? Seems like more games and I don’t like jumping through hoops for people. As I said, I don't understand what business plan they are working from!!!!




I'm not that bothered about an OS Enterprise in 1/350th. One half that size would suit me (as long as it has great detail) but I really don't care what tactics manufacturers use as long as they come up with the goods. 

If things like this help them then that's fine by me. All that should matter to us modellers is whether the models we want get produced and they're good.


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## LGFugate (Sep 11, 2000)

Wouldn't a survey on the Round2 website make more sense? It would certainly be cheaper for the retailers, as they have a cost to pay for every order, pre-order or not. (Not to the manufacturer or their suppliers, but for the website changes necessary to support the new items in the order system, for the reporting on those pre-orders, etc. It may not be much, but it's still a cost.)

Larry


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

I'll buy mine from my friend from the late great HiWay Hobby, who currently has an ebay store.


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## miniature sun (May 1, 2005)

There's an awful lot of other ships I'd like to see done well in plastic before another Enterprise and I think some of them would be bigger sellers too.
As I said on the other thread, I don't think interest in Star Trek is anywhere near as big now as some people would like to believe it is, and the majority of it's fans are not modellers.


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

LGFugate said:


> Wouldn't a survey on the Round2 website make more sense? It would certainly be cheaper for the retailers, as they have a cost to pay for every order, pre-order or not. (Not to the manufacturer or their suppliers, but for the website changes necessary to support the new items in the order system, for the reporting on those pre-orders, etc. It may not be much, but it's still a cost.)
> 
> Larry



I doubt it. They most probably want to see whether it's worth their while doing it by the amount of pre-orders. Problem is, I bet that looking at pre-orders can be misleading sometimes. 

I don't usually pre-order things and I bet a lot of other people don't too. I usually buy things when they come out. I don't blame them for trying it though but if there's too few pre-orders that doesn't mean loads won't buy it after it's come out.


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## RICHjm (Jun 14, 2010)

Couldn't hurt if its a strategy push to get the wheels turning ,all the better to keep the subject alive.


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## Scorpitat (Oct 7, 2004)

Gee, thanks Mage. Now I want a 1:350 scale Rudolph kit. Damn you too hell! 

LOLOL

Sincerely,
Scorp. :wave: :tongue:


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## Magesblood (May 12, 2008)

Cool. Just take the new/old Atlantis' whitetail, put an LED in the nose and cast your own antlers.


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## falcondesigns (Oct 30, 2002)

RSN said:


> I don't mean to be out of line, but to me this is poor business all around by Cult, other retailers and Round 2! If there is going to be a kit, then announce it with a firm delivery date! Only then will I place an order, otherwise it is just a wish. The only reason I see for this type of deceiving business practice, is to gage how much interest there is in the project. I think we have seen here how much there is, how much more proof do they need. Who is to say ALL those who pre-order, will still be in a position to still pay for it a year and a half from now? How many orders will be cancelled if there are ANY production delays? How many are there like me who WILL buy one once it is made official and produced? Seems like more games and I don’t like jumping through hoops for people. As I said, I don't understand what business plan they are working from!!!!


Money talks.....If you save five dollars a week,you'll have the money to pay for it when it arrives.Sit back and do nothing,or make this happen with the force of your money.


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## Opus Penguin (Apr 19, 2004)

LGFugate said:


> Wouldn't a survey on the Round2 website make more sense? It would certainly be cheaper for the retailers, as they have a cost to pay for every order, pre-order or not. (Not to the manufacturer or their suppliers, but for the website changes necessary to support the new items in the order system, for the reporting on those pre-orders, etc. It may not be much, but it's still a cost.)
> 
> Larry


A survey was done last year on their site. From my understanding, and I could be wrong, it is what showed them at the company there was an interest in the kit.


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

falcondesigns said:


> Money talks.....If you save five dollars a week,you'll have the money to pay for it when it arrives.Sit back and do nothing,or make this happen with the force of your money.


Don't need to save, I could buy 3 right now! I'll take my chances, I don't like extortion! : )


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

RSN said:


> Don't need to save, I could buy 3 right now! I'll take my chances, I don't like extortion! : )




How's that extortion?


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

Order a product that is not in production and maybe we will make it, sounds like extortion to me!!!! Look, it says "make your voce heard", and I did, sorry if it dose not fall in line with the thinking of everyone else, but that is how I roll!!


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## Gemini1999 (Sep 25, 2008)

falcondesigns said:


> Money talks.....If you save five dollars a week,you'll have the money to pay for it when it arrives.Sit back and do nothing,or make this happen with the force of your money.


Speaking of money, the price seems a bit cost prohibitive - at least in comparison to the 1/350 refit E, or even the Moebius J2. I would think that a suggested retail price of about 99.99, with a pre order discount price of 89.99would seem more appropriate given the simplistic nature of the TOS E design.

I like the idea of a 1/350 scale TOS E, but not at the price listed @ the CultTVMan website, but that's just my individual opinion.

Bryan


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## irishtrek (Sep 17, 2005)

Double post, oops.


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## irishtrek (Sep 17, 2005)

Don't know if any one has said any thing about this but I will, don't forget folks we're just a small margin of model builders out there considering that most probably know nothing about these boards and the info we have access to like R2 wanting to put out a 350 tos E. There are thousands of other builders out there if not millions more....


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## falcondesigns (Oct 30, 2002)

RSN said:


> Order a product that is not in production and maybe we will make it, sounds like extortion to me!!!! Look, it says "make your voce heard", and I did, sorry if it dose not fall in line with the thinking of everyone else, but that is how I roll!!


You have a right to your opinion,But this is one product that has a fan base for over 40 years,Its not like a regular model.

The retail price is reasonable,given the expense it will cost to produce it,and the cost of the raw material (plastic:IE,Oil Product)Prices have risen since the NX-01,or the refit,and the cost to get it here (to the US)has a bearing on price.


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

falcondesigns said:


> You have a right to your opinion,But this is one product that has a fan base for over 40 years,Its not like a regular model.
> 
> The retail price is reasonable,given the expense it will cost to produce it,and the cost of the raw material (plastic:IE,Oil Product)Prices have risen since the NX-01,or the refit.


That is great, but I am not the one who complained about the price, I was the one who said I would buy 3 if they were available NOW!! Just sayin'!! : )


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## machgo (Feb 10, 2010)

I'm hesitant, but glad to see some movement on this matter.

I doubt this is a tactic to gauge potential support for the product as a cancellation by R2 would be devastaing for them both economically and politically. It might be illegal. This isn't a stock offer afterall. The presumption is that a product WILL be released. Vendors have their names attached to the product now, too.

I'm going to be optimistic and pre-order 2, what the hey.....

What's the difference between standard version and premier? Sorry if I missed the obvious. 

Mage, I'll sell you one at cost if it comes down to it.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

I pre-ordered a couple. IMHO, such things as this when people wave their money serve to show to some small and somewhat unscientific degree how much interest there is. It's like a survey. I'm sure the enthusiasm here will help convince the powers that be at R2. :thumbsup:


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## BARRYZ28 (Mar 3, 2007)

I placed an order for one and if it doesn't come into production, no money lost just disappointment.


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## flyingfrets (Oct 19, 2001)

Hey, write-ins to NBC saved the show...whatever works, y'know? Worth a shot...


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## Tiberious (Nov 20, 2001)

As I've already ordered, I don't know if this is even a statement of value, but since it IS so expensive, I as a consumer would expect the VERY BEST quality and detail accuracy for my money. I already dropped $1200 for the Master Replicas ship, I expected better but I'm satisfied overall with the end product (and I did get #1 after all, can't gripe there!)

Tib


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

Well, truth be told, I had 13 vials of blood taken at the doctors today. If I am still able to build in a year and a half or so, I will pick up a Big E, if it is out. In the mean time, I reeeeeeeeealy have more important things to worry about. I am still trying to accomplish my "Model a Month" pledge I made in January. I am on #9 with just a month left to go, (Not counting Holiday time!). Next year, 6 kit goal. Get some of the big boys built!!! Everyone take care and appreciate each other's opinions!! Peace!

Ron Nastrom


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

flyingfrets said:


> Hey, write-ins to NBC saved the show...whatever works, y'know? Worth a shot...


Yes, but remember, the first episode they gave us after that was "Spock's Brain"!! ; )


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## mcdougall (Oct 28, 2007)

I'm a figure modeler...MONSTERS BWAHAHAHA...
But I preordered one because I think it will be a COOOOL kit :thumbsup:
...and guys don't give up hope...man I heard for fourty years that Gigantic Frankenstein would never be made(again)...wouldn't sell many....just a niche market
...Blah, blah, blah...well Moebius DID remake them...and I bought 8 of them...and gave a bunch of 'em away as gifts,birthdays, Christmas etc...and I don't see Moebius closing their doors so it must have sold rather well 
Good Luck with this worthwhile endeavor:thumbsup:
Mcdee


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## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

I'm willing. I've been waiting more than thirty years for my dream model.


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## ryoga (Oct 6, 2009)

Here's some support from South East Asia. I've put in my pre-order with Cult, and I'll try to get some Trekker fans here to do the same as well. I'm also pretty sure the price listed is tentative since the kit doesn't exist yet.

Oh yeah, definitely want one at 1/350 scale.


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## liskorea317 (Mar 27, 2009)

phicks said:


> Guys...my understanding of the styrene model business is that you have to sell around 200,000 units to make a profit. All of us pre-ordering kits would only add up to a couple of dozen. I don't think it would influence a go-no go decision by R2.


From what I understand, dealers from all over have been asked to take pre-orders, including distributors. So keep your fingers crossed that the news will reach enough people interested in it.


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## falcondesigns (Oct 30, 2002)

RSN said:


> That is great, but I am not the one who complained about the price, I was the one who said I would buy 3 if they were available NOW!! Just sayin'!! : )


The second part was directed at another post,take care of yourself.


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

falcondesigns said:


> The second part was directed at another post,take care of yourself.


Got it, thank you sir!! I can only only do what I can do, and have Faith in the rest! : )


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## phicks (Nov 5, 2002)

PhantomStranger said:


> If that is the case, we have A LOT of catching up to do.quote]
> 
> What is a more realistic number then Phantom Menace Stranger? I used to say 20,000 units, and got "corrected" by an industry insider on SSM that a break even point was more like 200,000 units. A dose of reality is always welcome!


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## LGFugate (Sep 11, 2000)

Here's another nit: There are two versions of the kit! A "standard" and a "premium". Cult is offering the "premium" one at just under twice the price of the Refit. What (besides the price) is the difference between the two?

Larry


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## kylwell (Mar 13, 2004)

and in case you haven't heard the following concerning the 1/350 TOS Enterprise:



R2 said:


> NO OFFICIAL ANNOUNCEMENT HAS BEEN MADE.
> 
> The "news" is essentially a book keeping error. I was asked for my plan for the year, not knowing that that information would be used to generate a distributor price list. When I found that’s what it would be used for, I advised that late year product especially this one is extremely tentative and probably shouldn’t be on there. I was told it would only be given to distributors and never be for public consumption and that distributors were used to the schedule moving around or being adjusted. Though the kit is on our plan, we have not gotten approval on costs. If the kit were to be taken off of our 2011 plan, we would insert other new smaller kits of subjects to be determined. We will announce at Wonderfest 2011 whether the 1:350 kit will be released in 2011, 2012 or dropped from consideration altogether.


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## falcondesigns (Oct 30, 2002)

We actually did here that last week,now today......venders are taking pre-orders.


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

rkoenn said:


> If those sold in sufficient numbers to make money then I would think this one would also, if not then this one is unlikely as well.


 My thoughts, too. Take the sales of those Trek kits at their size and price points and multiply by the relative popularity of the subject compared to the other two kits. How they could come up with the last figure is beyond me though ... maybe by comparing sales of the 1/1000 refit and TOS kits.


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## falcondesigns (Oct 30, 2002)

Licence,tooling cost,manufacturing cost,advertising,raw materials,shipping,profit margin,that detremins the sucess of a model.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

kylwell said:


> and in case you haven't heard the following concerning the 1/350 TOS Enterprise:


You're right--very good to point that out. However, if it doesn't come about, then the orders will be canceled with no loss. It's worth a shot, IMHO.:thumbsup:


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## MonsterModelMan (Dec 20, 2000)

Originally Posted by R2 said:


> NO OFFICIAL ANNOUNCEMENT HAS BEEN MADE.
> 
> The "news" is essentially a book keeping error. I was asked for my plan for the year, not knowing that that information would be used to generate a distributor price list. When I found that’s what it would be used for, I advised that late year product especially this one is extremely tentative and probably shouldn’t be on there. I was told it would only be given to distributors and never be for public consumption and that distributors were used to the schedule moving around or being adjusted. *Though the kit is on our plan, we have not gotten approval on costs. *


My question becomes ..."If they haven't agreed on price, then what does a pre-order do for you? Does it lock down a price if it creeps up say by $20.00 or $30.00 dollars?" You would pay the pre-order price? I don't think that is how it works....so why in the world would ANYONE pre-order on something that price hasn't been decided on yet?

MMM


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## falcondesigns (Oct 30, 2002)

MonsterModelMan said:


> My question becomes ..."If they haven't agreed on price, then what does a pre-order do for you? Does it lock down a price if it creeps up say by $20.00 or $30.00 dollars?" You would pay the pre-order price? I don't think that is how it works....so why in the world would ANYONE pre-order on something that price hasn't been decided on yet?
> 
> MMM


The price will be finallize when the project is given the go.Then you will have the choice of locking in your pre-order or waiting for the product hits the shelf.It is an "intent to purchase" to show R2 that it is a viaable product for them to produce.


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

Supporting is one thing and while one may have funds now, should the kit be released at a random time when you don't have the funds and the charge goes through incurring all sorts of fees? Just cant do that. It's too dangerous.


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## MonsterModelMan (Dec 20, 2000)

falcondesigns said:


> The price will be finallize when the project is given the go.Then you will have the choice of locking in your pre-order or waiting for the product hits the shelf.It is an "intent to purchase" to show R2 that it is a viaable product for them to produce.


I could be way out in left field on this but I don't think so...

You could accomplish the same thing with a poll on their website directly. R2 has no way of knowing all the pre-orders that come in from all the resellers as they do not sell direct but through distributors...all this pre-order info from a reseller on "an intent to buy" makes no business sense to me except only to the reseller, as a distributor is not going to track pre-orders with only "an intent to buy" and not having real dollars behind it...Resellers have to get product from distributors unless it is sold directly...not too often these days. IMHO.

By pre-ordering without a price, you are creating a logistical problem with online resellers, verifying if anyone still wants the product or not after the price has been determined. The distributors don't care *(it is really a resellers way of trying to see if he can move the product to minimize their risk).* Distributors care only about moving product with real dollars...not "intent to buy" dollars. And I don't think that distributors are tracking stuff on a pre-order basis...they distribute too many products to do that unless there are real $$ dollars behind the order.

I have a distributor near me...Stevens International...and I can tell you it is either you have the money for orders or you don't. Stuff is not moved on promises or intent. Ultimately, the reseller would have to foot the $$ for product they intend to sell. R2 is paid...distributor has been paid...reseller...gets paid by consumer.

MMM


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## rkoenn (Dec 18, 2007)

Model Man said:


> Supporting is one thing and while one may have funds now, should the kit be released at a random time when you don't have the funds and the charge goes through incurring all sorts of fees? Just cant do that. It's too dangerous.


I believe with Cult that the preorder simply guarantees you a price as he frequently prices preorders below the final cost. Also, once it arrives he sends out an email offering it to you based on the preorder with a link to get the special price. If you never follow through on that email I believe your preorder just disintegrates. Steve is totally on the up and up with orders and preorders and quite flexible.

Bob K.


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## Edge (Sep 5, 2003)

I voted... for the Enterprise C re-release. Over $100 is too rich for my blood.


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## Tiberious (Nov 20, 2001)

For those who are concerned about pre-orders dropping the bomb on you when you're not ready, I ordered from Tower Hobby, which actually asks you if you want the kit when it comes in and assumes you DO NOT if you don't respond.

Safe and secure 

Tib


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## MonsterModelMan (Dec 20, 2000)

Here are the rules over at CultTVMan on Pre-Order stuff:

PREORDER INFORMATION
Add the item to the cart.
Do not mix PREORDER items with regular purchase items in the same order.
Proceed through the Check Out and choose "PREORDER - No Payment at this time" as the payment option.
*DO NOT SUBMIT CREDIT CARD OR PAY PAL PAYMENT* at this time.
We will contact you when the item is expected to arrive to submit payment. We will provide a specific link so you can pay on line with credit card, Pay Pal or you may mail in your payment.
Shipping costs are subject to change.
By following these instructions, your credit card will not be charged until the item is ready to ship.
Payment is expected within two weeks of the product arrival unless other arrangements are made. Failure to pay for your preordered product may result in the cancellation of all your outstanding Preorder Reservations. Do no place a preorder if you do are not going to pay for it!
So with that said...if you don't pay whatever the price is decided to be from R2...then you _may_ lose ALL other pre-order reservations with them.

Kind of ties your hands doesn't it? *BUT, you still ultimately have the choice NOT TO BUY.* You are committing to buy but not really knowing the price on the 1/350 Scale TOS Enterprise from R2 specifically. I realize why this is stated this way...he is putting his neck out there and ordering a said amount from a distributor...and paying the distributor for these products when they are released...as stated in an earlier post...based on pre-orders from the consumer. R2 has already sold them to the distributor at this point.

So for R2 to base its going forward with the project on pre-orders from the reseller, it doesn't make any sense to me.

Now, *if you want to support your reseller by doing a pre-order, then go right ahead...nothing wrong with that* as long as you understand what you are committing to.

MMM


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## spindrift (Apr 16, 2005)

Something is UP with this whole thing....
This kit, described in different editions and accesory kits, is alot farther along in planning than we have been told. I think a release is coming and the hesitation from R2 is a mystery to me. IF all distributors have this list and have NOT been corrected in any way by now from R2...well something is up here. I think R2 will "officially" announce in Feb Toy Fair if not sooner...
Gary


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## kylwell (Mar 13, 2004)

Shops can put up damned near anything they want and leave it up with little recourse from the Manufacturer so long as they aren't misrepresenting the Manufacturer. 

That being said, where the #(*#$!! is my 1/350 styrene K'tinga!


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## derric1968 (Jun 13, 2003)

*ATTENTION! ATTENTION! ALL READERS! This was a big a big mistake!!! The 350-E was never intended to be solicited to the public!!!!!*

Sorry about that everybody, but some people seem to have missed the announcement that this situation is all an accident. Apologies, apologies!!! Jamie already said that he never intended for his TENTATIVE schedule to be made available to the public. R2 is not trying to accomplish anything by soliciting this kit, because it was an error to begin with. 

If you missed it, *HERE* is Jaime's post explaining it himself. Are we all on the same page so far? It was a mistake. Wasn't supposed to happen. Got it? Good! Continuing to try to figure out what R2 is trying to do here is an exercise in futility because they aren't trying to do anything, except maybe put out all the fires that erupted in the wake of this accident.

Now, in regards to Cult putting this kit up for pre-order on his site, his hands were basically tied in the matter. Other retailers had already begun taking pre-orders. Had Cult decided to wait for an official statement from R2, everyone who wants this kit might have already placed their pre-orders elsewhere. Essentially, by waiting, he would have forfeited all those potential sales to his competitors. Considering that this is a high-demand, high-priced, hot-ticket item, he had virtually no choice but to but to jump on the pre-order bandwagon. If the kit gets officially scheduled, he's locked in at least some guaranteed sales. If the kit gets officially cancelled, nobody loses any money and the pre-orders simply get cancelled. He's hedging his bets, but only because someone else blinked first. If you want to be angry at anyone, figure out who opened pre-orders first and get mad at that person/company. Were looking at a classic "snowball effect" situation here.

In the mean time, it's also pointless to try to make heads or tails of what's in the "standard kit" versus what's in the "deluxe kit". Until R2 makes an official announcement, it's all just pixie dust and unicorns.


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## Steve CultTVman Iverson (Jan 1, 1970)

MonsterModelMan said:


> Here are the rules over at CultTVMan on Pre-Order stuff:
> 
> PREORDER INFORMATION
> Add the item to the cart.
> ...



Bob, reading this really make it look like I am some sort of evil, sinister person.


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## James Tiberius (Oct 23, 2007)

Dont worry Cult, we dont all think that, just the crazies


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## MonsterModelMan (Dec 20, 2000)

Steve CultTVman Iverson said:


> Bob, reading this really make it look like I am some sort of evil, sinister person.


Steve,

I was not implying that in ANY way...if so I sincerely appologize to you and these boards. I was just making the point that pre-orders have NO WAY in helping R2 make a decision to either go-or-no go with a project...as FalconDesigns was stating in his original post. I just used your policy as an example everyone here can relate to! You have a policy that I think is fair and also helps you guage how much to order. No harm, no foul. But that has nothing to do with whether R2 does this kit or not. I thought that reasoning was way off so I tried to explain what I thought about it.

I guess what I was trying to convey is..hypothetically, what if R2 jacked the price an additional $100 over the price that was for the pre-order...a bunch of folks would not have pre-ordered them. R2 isn't even looking at the pre-order info...that is used by the resellers only but R2 doesn't care how it effects the reseller. They already got paid when the kit releases...see where I was going with this discussion?

I think that your policy is consistent with other resellers as it is concerned with pre-orders.

And I'll echo what most folks who know you say and that is that you are GREAT to do business with and come very recommended!


MMM


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## ryoga (Oct 6, 2009)

I have to disagree with MonsterModelMan on certain things he raised. 

A pre-order is an advance agreement with a retailer and it will be unfair to the retailer if he did order the kit only to find the buyer has decided not to purchase the good. Not good for business. Pre-order only if you are definite about buying, otherwise you're wasting both your time and your retailers'. And don't be too surprised if you don't honour your pre-orders, you may just find yourself blacklisted from making any future pre-orders. I would if I was a retailer.

Also, if R2 chose to use these retailers to gauge the interest level to produce the kit, naturally they would want to know who would *BUY* them, not who wants them (its different since I want so many things as well but I can't afford to buy everything). It doesn't make any logical sense for a company to produce what people want but not willing to buy them.

Furthermore, where the pricing is concerned, R2 sets the amount (and its not even confirmed yet), not CultTVman. As a gauge, Steve can't put a lower cost now (as with the other 1/350 scale kits, both Steve and John from SSM sells them with "their price" which are lower) since R2 is dictating the terms. We need to understand this as it is R2's way of doing their "research". Steve is merely helping fans to get their message across. 

And I feel Steve doesn't really have much choice when he said those who pre-ordered but don't pay may have their other pre-order cancelled. Chances are if you can't pay for the first, you probably can't pay for the rest. He has to also protect himself lest he's stuck with excess stock. 

My 2 cents here


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

derric1968 said:


> *ATTENTION! ATTENTION! ALL READERS! This was a big a big mistake!!! The 350-E was never intended to be solicited to the public!!!!!*
> 
> Sorry about that everybody, but some people seem to have missed the announcement that this situation is all an accident. Apologies, apologies!!! Jamie already said that he never intended for his TENTATIVE schedule to be made available to the public. R2 is not trying to accomplish anything by soliciting this kit, because it was an error to begin with.
> 
> ...


I think most of us understand all this already. Probably not a bad idea to reiterate it, however.


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## derric1968 (Jun 13, 2003)

PerfesserCoffee said:


> I think most of us understand all this already.


Absolutely! But I keep seeing posts pop up here and there with people theorizing about what's _really_ going on. Not everyone reads every post or every thread. I just thought a "public service announcement" might be in order.


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## Steve CultTVman Iverson (Jan 1, 1970)

MonsterModelMan said:


> I was not implying that in ANY way...if so I sincerely appologize to you and these boards. I was just making the point that pre-orders have NO WAY in helping R2 make a decision to either go-or-no go with a project...as FalconDesigns was stating in his original post. I just used your policy as an example everyone here can relate to! You have a policy that I think is fair and also helps you guage how much to order. No harm, no foul. But that has nothing to do with whether R2 does this kit or not. I thought that reasoning was way off so I tried to explain what I thought about it.
> 
> I guess what I was trying to convey is..hypothetically, what if R2 jacked the price an additional $100 over the price that was for the pre-order...a bunch of folks would not have pre-ordered them. R2 isn't even looking at the pre-order info...that is used by the resellers only but R2 doesn't care how it effects the reseller. They already got paid when the kit releases...see where I was going with this discussion?


Actually, the companies do pay attention to the preorder numbers.


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## Steve CultTVman Iverson (Jan 1, 1970)

ryoga said:


> Furthermore, where the pricing is concerned, R2 sets the amount (and its not even confirmed yet), not CultTVman. As a gauge, Steve can't put a lower cost now (as with the other 1/350 scale kits, both Steve and John from SSM sells them with "their price" which are lower) since R2 is dictating the terms. We need to understand this as it is R2's way of doing their "research". Steve is merely helping fans to get their message across.
> 
> And I feel Steve doesn't really have much choice when he said those who pre-ordered but don't pay may have their other pre-order cancelled. Chances are if you can't pay for the first, you probably can't pay for the rest. He has to also protect himself lest he's stuck with excess stock.


Model companies don't dictate pricing. The retailer sets their own price based on what he pays for a product (wholesale), overhead, etc. It's illegal for anyone to dictate retail pricing.

As for the preorder policy, I can't afford to take preorders and buy kits for people that are not going to pay for them. Gotta draw the line somewhere. 

Hope that helps
Steve


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## ryoga (Oct 6, 2009)

.... I stand corrected. 

:hat:


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## fluke (Feb 27, 2001)

We have been amazingly lucky so far! We have the Lief Erickson, the Moon Bus ( which we were told not long ago by those 'in the know' NOT to hold our breaths on ) Rommel's Rod and so many many more! .......now I want a 1/350 TOS enterprise more then the next guy...and I am in no shape or form a ST builder but the classic Star Fleet "vwessle" who could say no! :thumbsup:

Now......IF and WHEN the 1/350th Enterprise is released I will buy it the way I have always bought 90% of my kits from my local Hobby Shop!

Don't we all have enough kits under the bed, in the closet or filling up a whole garage or storage room of some type to keep us busy until then?

This is almost pure craziness and the way some of you are shelling out the green....have I missed something.... I thought times were tough? 

must be nice


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## falcondesigns (Oct 30, 2002)

A pre-order is NOT paid for up front,it is paid for when the item is in stock,ready to ship.I, for one dont have that kind of money on hand.But this gives me to chance to save a little each week,so when the time is due,I can.
.


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

Man, this has legs!!!!!!


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## drewid142 (Apr 23, 2004)

Great Idea! Who know's if it will really help, but I went ahead and ordered 2! I can't wait to add them to my stash!


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## RossW (Jan 12, 2000)

I'd love to submit a pre-order with Steve but the shipping + Duty + Taxes portion would end up more than the kit (no fault on Steve's part, of course - I live in Canada). I'll have to wait and see if Northstar Hobbies or Hornet Hobbies here in Toronto offer it up for pre-order.

Jamie - if you see a number from CultTVMan, just add "1" to that for me


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## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

RossW said:


> I'd love to submit a pre-order with Steve but the shipping + Duty + Taxes portion would end up more than the kit (no fault on Steve's part, of course - I live in Canada). I'll have to wait and see if Northstar Hobbies or Hornet Hobbies here in Toronto offer it up for pre-order.
> 
> Jamie - if you see a number from CultTVMan, just add "1" to that for me


Northstar Hobbies? You live in or near Mississauga? I lived at Cawthra and Dundas until a year ago.

Now living in Brockville, Ontario I have to inquire at Leading Edge Hobbies in Kingston.


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## enterprise_fan (May 23, 2004)

I would like to pre-order my name sake but I can't buy something that does not exist. Don't get me wrong I would like to have it like everyone here. 

I'm sure that R2 has plans for models that we don't know about but would love to have to have. When and if the model makes the light of day I will get one.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

enterprise_fan said:


> I would like to pre-order my name sake but I can't buy something that does not exist. Don't get me wrong I would like to have it like everyone here.
> 
> I'm sure that R2 has plans for models that we don't know about but would love to have to have. When and if the model makes the light of day I will get one.


I think the point is that if you pre-order it, it is more likely to exist. No guarantees, but it does make common sense that enough interest shown by pre-orders gives the manufacturer an idea of the enthusiasm level among modelers for the subject matter.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

I'm interested, I'm interested! But I'm planning on buying it from a friend who's in the process of opening a hobby shop.


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

Ditto on JP's post. I want to help my local out and they don't take preorders, but they've always gotten in on the first shipments. I need a kit number before anything else.


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## falcondesigns (Oct 30, 2002)

Premier #POL 878

Standard #POL 880


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## RossW (Jan 12, 2000)

Hey Warped9 - I live east of Mississauga in Parkdale (Toronto). I went to uni in Kingston, however, and used to pass by the hobby shop at Division and Princess St. every day in 3rd year. Haven't heard of Leading Edge - where's that?


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## Tiberious (Nov 20, 2001)

The way I see it, what's the harm, if your hobby source is reputable, they won't charge you 'til it's in stock anyhow. And if R2 can get a peek at the pre order numbers here and there, it may instill some confidence in them to make a go of it.

No harm, and possibly some benefit.

Tib


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

Again I have to say, to a company that is this on the fence about a product, pre-orders will in no way help. There is no guarantee that any of these orders will be paid for. No matter how much you say now that you intend to buy it when it comes out. Anything can happen between now and then to change your plans. Where will they be, if 30% of their pre-orders are gone. They either have to have faith in a product or not. At this time, I would guess, not! The only guarantee for them would be if everyone who wants one paid for it upfront, without seeing a product and waiting for them to produce it and hope to God it is as perfect as everyone demands it to be! Again, I will wait until I can see what I am agreeing to buy before I can commit.
I used to work in the movie theater business, this type of practice, "Blind Bidding", was outlawed by the U.S. Supreme Court. Too many theaters agreed to show a movie based on the studio description, before a frame of film was shot. They were disappointed with many of the movies they got and made the studios show a finished product before investing. That is the way I roll!!


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## spindrift (Apr 16, 2005)

Makes perfect sense to PRE ORDER to show R2 interest....you have options on most internet sites to not pay if you don't want to ...your choice.
I see this as THE chance to show R2 interest in the kit beyond just asking them!


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## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

RossW said:


> Hey Warped9 - I live east of Mississauga in Parkdale (Toronto). I went to uni in Kingston, however, and used to pass by the hobby shop at Division and Princess St. every day in 3rd year. Haven't heard of Leading Edge - where's that?


They're listed at Gardiners Rd. and Progress in Kingston. I plan to visit when I can.


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## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

Love this desktop art found over at Round2.


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

Now I am waiting for ALL the complaints about the hull plating!!!!!


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## woof359 (Apr 27, 2003)

*late night nice suprise*

I got the notice from Steve late Wed night ???? I coldn't place my order fast enough,,,,,,,,now maybe a D7 (-:


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## Nova Designs (Oct 10, 2000)

I don't know... I think the price is pretty high for a styrene kit. The refit is much more complex kit and has interiors... and it was only $50. Even the reissue was only $60.

I really really want a good 1/350th kit of this ship. But, I will wait to see if it ever actually comes out before spending over $100 on it.


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## jbeatles62 (Mar 11, 2008)

*1/350 TOS Enterprise*

Done, as well at Cult


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Nova Designs said:


> I don't know... I think the price is pretty high for a styrene kit. The refit is much more complex kit and has interiors... and it was only $50. Even the reissue was only $60.
> .


http://www.squadron.com/ItemDetails.asp?item=TR03202
http://www.squadron.com/NoStock.asp?item=TR05605

Things change, costs go up, waddayagonnado.


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## Edge (Sep 5, 2003)

John P said:


> http://www.squadron.com/ItemDetails.asp?item=TR03202
> http://www.squadron.com/NoStock.asp?item=TR05605
> 
> Things change, costs go up, waddayagonnado.


As if this hobby wasn't ready to go in to the ash heap of history already. If they can't keep the prices reasonable, they might as well pack up shop.


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## kylwell (Mar 13, 2004)

Ya'll do know that the MSRP for the PL 1/350 now sits @ $106.95 and is only expected to get higher.


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## AJ-1701 (May 10, 2008)

Just pre ordered mine... Even from the US it'll still be cheaper than getting one from down under.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

kylwell said:


> Ya'll do know that the MSRP for the PL 1/350 now sits @ $106.95 and is only expected to get higher.


Back in the 1960s, such a kit would have been MORE expensive if adjusted for inflation.


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## falcondesigns (Oct 30, 2002)

Edge said:


> As if this hobby wasn't ready to go in to the ash heap of history already. If they can't keep the prices reasonable, they might as well pack up shop.


Best to concentrate on what you can afford,then.How much were you paying for gas when the NX-01 came out,as oppose to today?All This complaining about prices,as If the manufacturers have an obligation to keep it cheap,just so you(the public)can have it.It is A HOBBY,not a requirement.


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

kylwell said:


> Ya'll do know that the MSRP for the PL 1/350 now sits @ $106.95 and is only expected to get higher.


What happens if the final cost of a project, that has not even gotten a budget or green light, goes up? Are you locked into that price? If so, and the final cost is more than they project, a lot of somebodies are going to lose money on this. As I have said from the beginning, a definite "GO" on the kit, with a known price and delivery date is sound business, this just sounds like kids playing "What if?"!


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## Edge (Sep 5, 2003)

falcondesigns said:


> Best to concentrate on what you can afford,then.How much were you paying for gas when the NX-01 came out,as oppose to today?All This complaining about prices,as If the manufacturers have an obligation to keep it cheap,just so you(the public)can have it.It is A HOBBY,not a requirement.


Of course they don't owe it to anyone. However, at $100+ I doubt the kit will sell to anyone except an ever dwindling group of fanatics.


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## falcondesigns (Oct 30, 2002)

Edge said:


> Of course they don't owe it to anyone. However, at $100+ I doubt the kit will sell to anyone except an ever dwindling group of fanatics.


You really dont know the hobby business....


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## Edge (Sep 5, 2003)

falcondesigns said:


> You really dont know the hobby business....


I guess all the hobby shops going out of business are a figment of my imagination. Too bad I ain't a genius like you.


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## falcondesigns (Oct 30, 2002)

I'm not a genius,but I know they're a lot more than "an every dwindling group of fanatics" who will buy this kit.No need to insult me in this discussion.


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

falcondesigns said:


> I'm not a genius,but I know they're a lot more than "an every dwindling group of fanatics" who will buy this kit.No need to insult me in this discussion.


Round 2 does not share your optimism. If they did, we would have the kit right now, not the promise that an announcement may or may not be made in May at Wonderfest!


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## Dave P (Jan 5, 2005)

Hobby shops closing has more to do with online competition and the fact that there aren't nearly enough young modelers joining the hobby these days to replace us old farts. 

Manufacturing costs go up. The Refit reissue was $80+, and all they did was upgrade the decals. JohnP's links illustrate a good point, but by no means represent the cost of kits across the board, or that the manufacturers are creating a problem. Even Moebius has stated several times that if they were to produce the Jupiter 2 today they wouldn't do it. Big kits with all the bells and whistles are expensive to produce compounded by the fact that Sci-Fi is a niche market. The only way Round 2 can reduce the unit cost on the Big E would be to run more kits than they could possibly hope to sell. I think the cost as it sits right now is pretty reasonable for what it is compared to other kits of that size.

I don't think you can say the Refit was more complex because of the interiors. I may have missed it, but do we really know for sure what features the Big E will have? Seems to me it's just been wish list speculation so far.

People can either save for it or don't buy it. I'd like a Ferrari, but I don't blame the company for making a car that's out of my reach. My guess is that the "dwindling group of fanatics" will be enough to make it a decent seller, but if it doesn't appeal to the retailers or distributors it will never get out of drydock.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

I imagine the only interior will be the hangar deck, and it's a lot simpler than the refit's.

I also imagine 99.9% of sales will be online. Target sure ain't gonna carry it. And I'm also sure they'll sell every one they make, just like they did with the Seaview, which had a much smaller fan base.


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## Opus Penguin (Apr 19, 2004)

I am hoping the premium version will include a hanger deck and brass etchings for the engines. Maybe even a light kit and metal deflector dish.


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## Edge (Sep 5, 2003)

falcondesigns said:


> I'm not a genius,but I know they're a lot more than "an every dwindling group of fanatics" who will buy this kit.No need to insult me in this discussion.


My apologies. Can't believe I can get so wound up over a model kit from a 45 year old TV show.

I am one of those fanatics (fan is short for fanatics after all). Bottom line: I hope they can produce the kit at a sub $100 level.


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## Magesblood (May 12, 2008)

how do we know if there will be a deluxe, premium or standard version? It's not even been announced yet.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Edge said:


> My apologies. Can't believe I can get so wound up over a model kit from a 45 year old TV show.
> 
> I am one of those fanatics (fan is short for fanatics after all). Bottom line: I hope they can produce the kit at a sub $100 level.


As do we all. 

Inflation/deflation is making things a little iffy now in terms of expected sales vs. tooling costs. It takes a while for the regular folks to "catch up" during a "correction" so people are more cautious now.

I think we'll get a kit, even if on the high end (compared to static model kits--flying plane kits for another example easily go into the hundreds if dollars per kit). 

We'll be getting one that would not/could not have been done several decades ago in terms of accuracy and features. Yeah, ten years ago would have been perfect timing and accuracy would have been way up there but a lot of us are going to be happy even at this late date.


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

PerfesserCoffee said:


> As do we all.
> 
> Inflation/deflation is making things a little iffy now in terms of expected sales vs. tooling costs. It takes a while for the regular folks to "catch up" during a "correction" so people are more cautious now.
> 
> ...


If the art they have posted on the Round 2 site to promote the project is any indication, I would be worried about the accuracy!! There were panel lines and raised detail all over a surface that should be smoooooth as a baby’s bottom!! As I have said, I will wait until I can see what I will be getting for my money before I give my word to purchase something!


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## Magesblood (May 12, 2008)

those are artist's renderings for the box cover. You know, Chris White type stuff.


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

Magesblood said:


> those are artist's renderings for the box cover. You know, Chris White type stuff.


As I said, if that is all I have to base my decision on, then it is not accurate. I will wait to see photos of the test shot or final version. "A fool and his money are soon parted!"


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## falcondesigns (Oct 30, 2002)

Magesblood said:


> how do we know if there will be a deluxe, premium or standard version? It's not even been announced yet.


I have the product #s: POL 878 and POL 880.I suspect that the Premium Kit will include parts to make all three versions of the Enterprise,The standard will not.


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## Magesblood (May 12, 2008)

which version will the standard edition make?


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

falcondesigns said:


> I have the product #s: POL 878 and POL 880.I suspect that the Premium Kit will include parts to make all three versions of the Enterprise,The standard will not.


It is amazing that kits, that will not be announced as a project, up or down, until May, have product code numbers. Something is strange about ALL of this!


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## Captain Han Solo (Apr 5, 2002)

Me thinks this is a done deal...

It's gonna happen.

No, I don't know anyone important relating to this,
No, I am not part of the inner circle of the "I know, but you don't knows"...
No, I don't have any inside information.....

Just what with all that is happening...the writing is on the wall..IMHO.


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## falcondesigns (Oct 30, 2002)

Magesblood said:


> which version will the standard edition make?


I belive it will be the production version.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

beatlepaul said:


> Me thinks this is a done deal...
> 
> It's gonna happen.
> 
> ...


You're right! It does sound like a done deal.:thumbsup:


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## mach7 (Mar 25, 2002)

Edge said:


> Bottom line: I hope they can produce the kit at a sub $100 level.


Just my opinion, but it ain't gonna happen as a list price.

I think we have to get used to the fact that the list price is the lowest price this kit will be IF it is ever released. More than likely it will be higher.

I would bet the list price will be north of $119 for the standard kit.


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## Paulbo (Sep 16, 2004)

List price is a suggestion - my LHS sells everything for 15% off (20% for cash) ... if you're a regular customer. All of the usual online stores are going to be discounting it as well, so you're almost assured that the standard kit will be under $100 street price.


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## Magesblood (May 12, 2008)

think it might come with metal spikes for the bussards and a metal deflector dish? That would be cool.


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## RICHjm (Jun 14, 2010)

Seeing how the 11 footer had no port side dorsal/secondary hull windows or markings,I think it would be most fitting to go and put with what the 3 footer had. Thats what I'd do anyway.

steady as she goes...
Rich


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## HabuHunter32 (Aug 22, 2009)

I think the MSRP is reasonable for a large (presumably) well detailed kit of such an iconic subject. With the discounting that the online retailers usually apply it should bring the basic kit in on some sites arround the $100.00 mark as the projected prices stand. This could change and is obviously not set in stone at this point. It depends on your point of view really. Everything seems too expensive these days. A gallon of milk or a gallon of gas. Both are over priced but we need them so we have no choice but to pay the bulldog so to speak. With our hobby choices, it's a want...not a need. If you think the price is too high then don't buy it. We make these choices everyday. Hobbies are no different. Just my opinion but then again Iv'e spent $300.00 on several 1/350 WWII Japaneese battleships. Why...because it's worth it to me....

I am putting away $10.00 a week for this purchase and by the time if or when the kit arrives at cult's mine will be paid for. The same system I used to buy the $300.00 Japaneese battleships...they just took longer! Lol!

I choose to be positive and "make it so" ! Oops..wrong series!


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Roger that.
When Trumpeter came out with their 1/32 P-47N for well over $100, I bought it without hesitation, because it's the plane my Dad flew, and I didn't care what the kit cost.


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## modelsj (May 12, 2004)

yes,but... the "a" is more detailed at a lesser price, why pay30-40% more?!


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## Hunch (Apr 6, 2003)

New tools. The price of cutting a mold in China has gone up.
I'll buy three as I'll need all versions! I'll have nowhere to put them, the wife will leave me but they WILL BE ON DISPLAY!


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

Hunch said:


> New tools. The price of cutting a mold in China has gone up.
> I'll buy three as I'll need all versions! I'll have nowhere to put them, the wife will leave me but they WILL BE ON DISPLAY!


That is my point about, when will it become the same price to make it here vs. China? That is a BIG jump in tooling, printing, packaging and transportation cost, in just a few years, for the purchase of a few cents worth of injected plastic! Cult lists the new kit at almost double the cost of the refit, $120.00 to $65.00 for the refit!


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

RSN said:


> That is my point about, when will it become the same price to make it here vs. China?


Remember "made in Japan", then "made in Hong Kong", then "made in China"? Once China becomes more of a consumer nation, production will move to ... where? A former Soviet Republic? Maybe India. 

Anyway, change is the only constant, no? 

(but I'll buy a TOS E, nevertheless)


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## falcondesigns (Oct 30, 2002)

RSN said:


> That is my point about, when will it become the same price to make it here vs. China?


Never.You are beating a dead horse.Oil= Plastic!Prices Up on OIL= prices up on plastic products.


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

falcondesigns said:


> Never.You are beating a dead horse.Oil= Plastic!Prices Up on OIL= prices up on plastic products.


The cost of the plastic/oil in these kits is only pennies. Kits that cost .99 cents in the ‘60’s are re-popped at a cost of around $25.oo. That is 25 times the cost in the ‘60’s. Gas, in 1970 was .27 cents a gallon, if there was a correlation between the two, as you propose, gas would be 6.75 per gallon. Not even close!!! The cost is in the tooling, printing packaging, transportation customs and distribution. Beating a dead horse? This whole topic, ordering a non-existent kit, is beating a dead horse. I don't consider trying to give American's much needed jobs, beating a dead horse!!


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## falcondesigns (Oct 30, 2002)

Your not giving anyone jobs discussing a plastic model kit......Those are issues best left to other forums.We dont disscuss politics here.


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## Captain Han Solo (Apr 5, 2002)




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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

falcondesigns said:


> Your not giving anyone jobs discussing a plastic model kit......Those are issues best left to other forums.We dont disscuss politics here.


I didn't say anything about politics, all I said was that soon there will be no cost savings sending things to be manufactured in China! That is all, my opinion is different than yours, SO! We are all adults and can express our views on a subject without getting our nose out of joint! The truth is the cost of the new Enterprise, if there is one, will be so high is due to the fact that there will be fewer people buying it, so those that do will be paying more of the production cost. The plastic has nothing to do with it. It is like movies. The '89 Batman movie made more at the box office than the '78 Superman movie, but more people went to see Superman than Batman. What made Batman more money was the fact that ticket prices were way higher 10 years later! I hope this kit does come out, I want one and have no problem paying whatever it costs!!!!! Let’s look to the future and let them know what else we would like to see made, that can make them a boat load of money. Thanks "falcondesigns" I enjoy trading ideas with someone who is passionate about a subject, we both learn and grow from it. Peace!!


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

beatlepaul said:


> YouTube - The Three Stooges - Moe Slap Happy


Thank you "beatlepaul", very appropriate!! It takes more than one to be involved in a slap fight, and I am embarrassed that I contributed! On the modeling front, I should have some pictures up soon of the kits I have done this year. Yes, I do more than rant like an idiot on the boards. I fell short by two of doing a model a month since January. Advanced arthritis has taken its toll and slowed me down! The last one should be done in a few days, then a break to enjoy Christmas.


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## falcondesigns (Oct 30, 2002)

Thank you,my friend.


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## Captain Han Solo (Apr 5, 2002)

RSN said:


> Thank you "beatlepaul", very appropriate!! It takes more than one to be involved in a slap fight, and I am embarrassed that I contributed! On the modeling front, I should have some pictures up soon of the kits I have done this year. Yes, I do more than rant like an idiot on the boards. I fell short by two of doing a model a month since January. Advanced arthritis has taken its toll and slowed me down! The last one should be done in a few days, then a break to enjoy Christmas.


It was no reflection of you Sir, Just the mood of the whole Thread:thumbsup:

I came across this and found it fitting for the entire thread..LOL! And who dosen't love the Stooges??


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## modelsj (May 12, 2004)

> New tools. The price of cutting a mold in China has gone up.
> I'll buy three as I'll need all versions! I'll have nowhere to put them, the wife will leave me but they WILL BE ON DISPLAY



Yep, I get the lecture all the time how star trek and victorian do not go together.


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

modelsj said:


> Yep, I get the lecture all the time how star trek and victorian do not go together.


Make a Steampunk Enterprise!!!


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

modelsj said:


> yes,but... the "a" is more detailed at a lesser price, why pay30-40% more?!


Because that's what it costs. *shrug*


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Anybody know how many preorders Cult has gotten so far?


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## phicks (Nov 5, 2002)

I just pre-ordered 200,000 kits. We should be good. :thumbsup:


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## JGG1701 (Nov 9, 2004)

phicks said:


> I just pre-ordered 200,000 kits.  We should be good. :thumbsup:


:jest::roll::roll::jest:
-Jim


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## derric1968 (Jun 13, 2003)

SteveR said:


> Remember "made in Japan", then "made in Hong Kong", then "made in China"? Once China becomes more of a consumer nation, production will move to ... where? A former Soviet Republic? Maybe India.


Made in Cambodia. Made in Laos. Made in Vietnam. Made in Indonesia. Made in Thailand. Made in Malaysia. Made in Sri Lanka. Made in Bangladesh. Made in Trinidad. Made in Mexico. Made in Honduras. Made in Costa Rica. Made in Haiti. Made in the Dominican Republic. Etc., etc., etc.

The bottom line is that the world is not going to run out of cheap labor for many, many years.


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## Tiberious (Nov 20, 2001)

It's funny how easily this could be resolved by R2 or another company stating that they do or do not look at pre-order sales (if they're lucky enough to have them) in determining product viability.

As for price, I hope they make the higer-end product worth it, more than just little changes from season to season, interior, lights, etc are always a nice touch.

Tib


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## Hunch (Apr 6, 2003)

I just hope they make it at all.


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## jbgroby (Dec 15, 2003)

I did two of them.


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## Moebius (Mar 15, 2007)

Tiberious said:


> It's funny how easily this could be resolved by R2 or another company stating that they do or do not look at pre-order sales (if they're lucky enough to have them) in determining product viability.


For us, it's way too late to pull production if we're taking preorders. Not sure how anyone else does it, but we usually have the license for an item nearly a year before it hits the market. The preproduction work is done by the time preorders start to come in. If we based viability on preorders, there would have been many projects cancelled, as most distributors just don't place large preorders until the item has shipped out of China! Hard to second guess something once you've sunk a chunk of money in it.


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

Moebius said:


> For us, it's way too late to pull production if we're taking preorders. Not sure how anyone else does it, but we usually have the license for an item nearly a year before it hits the market. The preproduction work is done by the time preorders start to come in. If we based viability on preorders, there would have been many projects cancelled, as most distributors just don't place large preorders until the item has shipped out of China! Hard to second guess something once you've sunk a chunk of money in it.


Glad that someone in the business sees this as an unusual business move, the way I do!!


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## pagni (Mar 20, 1999)

^ Which is why I think this project is much farther along than is being admitted.


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## flyingfrets (Oct 19, 2001)

pagni said:


> ^ Which is why I think this project is much farther along than is being admitted.


First off, let me say I'd like to see this as much as anyone here.

But what would be the point of all the cloak & dagger secrecy? As we've all witnessed, companies like Moebius let us know what's coming well in advance of the product's arrival. It generates _anticipation_ (which kicks the aftermarket guys into gear to have *their* products ready to roll out when the kit hits the market...which incidentally probably drives more sales for the manufacturer of the main kit) as opposed to _speculation_ which doesn't do any of us any good.

I don't mean to piss in anybody's picnic basket (hedged my bets & pre-ordered one myself), but as a business model, it really *doesn't* make a whole lot of sense.


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

pagni said:


> ^ Which is why I think this project is much farther along than is being admitted.


Then why not announce it, with test shot photos and a difinitive price? Pre-orders would fly through the roof! Why not, because it is no where near production! As I said waaaaaaay back when this all started, a very poor business plan and an odd way to run a company!


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## derric1968 (Jun 13, 2003)

Guys, why are you still talking about this? Jaime already came here to explain this situation. It was an internal mistake at Round 2. Simple as that. Maybe the truth isn't as sexy as the theories, but there's no reason to go looking for conspiracies and shady business practices where none exist. It was a mistake and Jaime has already owned up to it.

Also, go back and read Frank's post carefully. He's talking about Moebius taking pre-orders from distributors. Do we know for a fact that Round 2 is taking pre-orders from distributors? All we know for sure is that various retailers are taking pre-orders from their customers. Round 2 has no control over that. A model kit manufacturer taking pre-orders from distributors and model kit sellers taking pre-orders from customers are two entirely different things.


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