# And Still, Yet another lap timer issue.



## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

We have been racing for years over at a friends house without a lap timer. It was so much fun, but we often wondered how much better it would be if we only had some sort of lap counter system. Well, last year, we finally got what we wished for. He got LapTimer 2000. We set it up in the middle of a straightaway and used IR sensors. It took some adjusting but we finally got them to work under test conditions. Under race conditions, it was another story. We tested and retested, but I just didn't think they were counting right. We haven't raced there in a while. 










In the meantime, I had built a track at my place. We set up IR sensors and were more successful this time. Things went a lot smoother and I had got this other program called Slot Race Manager. It just seems like a more precise program. We had a couple of races here, and aside from some tweaking of the track, things seemed to go okay. As the night went on though, this program appeared to have the same dang problem. 










So, my friend has a MaxTrax in north Dallas. He has the whole nine yards. He uses TrackMate lap counter system and is constantly telling everyone how superior the TrackMate system is. He uses deadstrips to trip the counter, so maybe that's the difference.










You know, it works really great. I like having the sounds and best laptimes, and being able to upload the results into a national database. It is a pretty neat program, but.......... I can see where it has the same problems as any other computerized lap counting system. Not as bad, but it definitely has problems. Is there any other program out there that can be used for HO cars?

Rich


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## GoodwrenchIntim (Feb 22, 2005)

what exact problem are you having with SRM??? Missing laps??? I use SRM with IR an haven't had any problems.


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## 1976Cordoba (Sep 20, 2000)

You need a consistent light source above your IR sensors -- you'll have problems with shadows and screwy lap counting if the light is disrupted. Build a bridge or hang a desk lamp over the sensors in the meantime and make sure no one swings their arm under it.


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

> We tested and retested, but I just didn't think they were counting right.


What was wrong? 



> As the night went on though, this program appeared to have the same dang problem.


What problem was that?



> I can see where it has the same problems as any other computerized lap counting system


Like what kind of problems?

All of these PC based systems, other PC based ones, and standalone systems like TrikTrax, have the potential and demonstrated ability to run reliably under demanding race conditions. Yes, you have to get the sensors installed in the right places, aligned and setup correctly, and configured to work with the software correctly. I've seen some of these, TrackMate in particular, used in commercial installations where they get run continuously and with very high level of scrutiny from very demanding customers and racers. Overall, it works extremely well with some rare issues that I would attribute to the relative fragility of the PC and Windows platform. Would I install it on a crap PC with a 4 year old installation of XP that's been used by teenagers using Kazaa and AIM? No, I'd put it on clean, fully patched, unadorned, freshly installed copy of XP with a UPS backup. The standalone TrikTrax systems that preceded TrackMate on these same tracks had rare problems as well, usually due to sensor or wiring issues. The real value in PC based systems is the automation of data collection and the race management features, like lane rotation, managing sit outs, keeping track of race positions, lap history, and that sort of thing. That's where a PC based system shines. Beeps, vrooms, and being able to have your name show up as Mario Andretti, those things are pure fluff. 



> We have been racing for years over at a friends house without a lap timer. It was so much fun, ...


From the tone and overall vagueness of these complaints it sounds like you would simply be happier running without a lap counter/timer system. Why not just follow your heart and do it that way? I wouldn't be able to get two racers out to a race if there was not a capable counter/timer system involved, but whatever works for you is more important than trying to convince you that what works for me and others is what should work for you too.


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## Jeff Van Stemp (Feb 3, 2009)

*Frustrated by lap-counters*

Greetings from Canada. I raced on a couple tracks that had the light sensors for triggers, and they were at times temperamental. When I built my own track, I used dead stips that were isolated from the actual counters with relays. The relays were powered by a low voltage power pack. I am no electronics guy (I am a carpenter) but hooking up the relays was really very easy. The parts were all in-stock Radio Shack stuff. What the relays do is completely isolate the car triggering the switch from the electronics. I hooked mine up to 4 calculators. They were very dependable. I am building another track this summer hopefully and I would like to have a computerized system for counting and timing laps, but I will very likely use my old relay/dead strip again. Hope you get your counters behaving.


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## slotnewbie69 (Dec 3, 2008)

heya jeff!what part of the great white north?i am in bc.


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## neorules (Oct 20, 2006)

We recently got the slot trak system. So far it has worked flawlessly for many races. Check it out:http://www.slottrak.com/


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## Jeff Van Stemp (Feb 3, 2009)

*Another Canuck*

I am quite a ways from B.C. I live in Woodstock, Ontario. I have never been to western Canada but I know that I would love it. When the Flames or the Oilers are in the playoffs, I see the fans going ballistic - these are true hockey fans - different from the rich stiffs that sit on there fat butts in Maple Leaf Gardens and boo their own players. Unfortunately, I have blue and white blood in my veins so I still cheer for the Leafs. 
I race scratch-built 1/25 cars. I usually build my own chassis and mount a hard plastic model kit on it. The cool thing about racing models is they sustain real damage after a good crash.

What kind of racing goes on in your part of this country?
Jeff


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## slotnewbie69 (Dec 3, 2008)

we have a small group of guys.dan has the manshed,with a 4 lane ho 4X8 track,with trakmate software,a 1/4 mile dragstrip,and a two lane daytona layout aswell.jay is into 1/32 and 1/24 slots,as is carlos.jay built his own sectional routed track,with about 20' straights,and squeezed irregular corners.mdf,and copper tape for rails.i give em tune up tips,and fix their ho cars sometimes,and they find free track for me!there are not any official clubs as far as i know,but i hear about closet racers from time to time.i am into modelling aswell,and the slotcars woke up an old hobby from my younger days....i am in victoria bc.not too many slotfreaks in my circle of friends,but the other guys race with some guys up island,so hopefully we can do a trip up there.we like the bigger scales,but me and dan are primarily into tjets and afx.


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## Jeff Van Stemp (Feb 3, 2009)

*Ontario to British Colombia*

I was going to send a Personal Mail (PM) to you but I don't know how. You mentioned how an old hobby was woken up - I remember as a kid building car models and wishing I could race them. I would lay on the living room floor with the 1970 Christmas catalogue and dream of slot racing - and ask my dad if I could get a track. We just simply couldn't afford it. Man, how times have changed! When I was old enough to be able to buy my own track, it was all HO scale and I wanted to race models, so I never really did much - until 20 years later when I stumbled into this club in Toronto that was racing model cars. I couldn't believe my eyes. I went so ballistic that I scratch-built 25 slot cars in one year. I couldn't wait to get home from work to run up to my work shop and plug in the soldering iron and hot glue gun. Anyway, cheers to a great and relatively cheap hobby that brings out the creative juices and the youngster in all of us. 
Jeff in Ontario.


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## brownie374 (Nov 21, 2007)

I almost hate to say it because I dont want to jinx myself but I use trackmate with a lightbridge and a old beat-up hand me down free junk computer and it works great.I have races at my house about every 3 weeks with 10-15 racers and the trackmate works great,I think what helps is when I bought it I bought the COMPLETE system from Dan at trackmate.The only problem is when I first got it I had a bad cable,once that got figured out things work great.I have been using it for over a year now.Another thing I think helps is have a computer for just the track.


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## slotnewbie69 (Dec 3, 2008)

Jeff Van Stemp said:


> I was going to send a Personal Mail (PM) to you but I don't know how. You mentioned how an old hobby was woken up - I remember as a kid building car models and wishing I could race them. I would lay on the living room floor with the 1970 Christmas catalogue and dream of slot racing - and ask my dad if I could get a track. We just simply couldn't afford it. Man, how times have changed! When I was old enough to be able to buy my own track, it was all HO scale and I wanted to race models, so I never really did much - until 20 years later when I stumbled into this club in Toronto that was racing model cars. I couldn't believe my eyes. I went so ballistic that I scratch-built 25 slot cars in one year. I couldn't wait to get home from work to run up to my work shop and plug in the soldering iron and hot glue gun. Anyway, cheers to a great and relatively cheap hobby that brings out the creative juices and the youngster in all of us.
> Jeff in Ontario.


makes me miss my old 1/32 strombecker with half melted controllers!yeah,its cool seeing the models come together.i just scored a freebox of 1/43 cars i am going to rip the motors out of and use for a couple kits i got hangin around.to send a pm just click on my username i think!


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

I'm in Calgary,the wifes a Flames fan,and i'm an Oilers fan,it can be quite entertaining at times:wave::wave:
We run only the high end cars,Poly Mods (R/O) and Neo cars


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## coach61 (Sep 6, 2004)

Hornet said:


> I'm in Calgary,the wifes a Flames fan,and i'm an Oilers fan,it can be quite entertaining at times:wave::wave:
> We run only the high end cars,Poly Mods (R/O) and Neo cars


Your Wife has far better taste how did she wind up married to a boilers fan?


Dave

(Cold Lake Alberta)


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

She's a native Calgarian Dave,i'm a stubble jumper from Saskatchewan:thumbsup::thumbsup:
Now if we could get all them Sask boys to play on a Saskatchewan hockey team,i think the rest of the NHL would be in trouble,lol
It's worse when the Roughriders and Stamps are playing football,the wars on then:woohoo::woohoo:
Actually my wifes a bigger sports fan then me,she'll watch anything sports related,:wave:
Rick


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## coach61 (Sep 6, 2004)

Hornet said:


> She's a native Calgarian Dave,i'm a stubble jumper from Saskatchewan:thumbsup::thumbsup:
> Now if we could get all them Sask boys to play on a Saskatchewan hockey team,i think the rest of the NHL would be in trouble,lol
> It's worse when the Roughriders and Stamps are playing football,the wars on then:woohoo::woohoo:
> Actually my wifes a bigger sports fan then me,she'll watch anything sports related,:wave:
> Rick


Funny first CFl game I ever went to was in Regina.. the fans amazed me to no end. I'm a die hard Cat fan.. ya I know.. they have sucked since I moved to Texas Greg even blames me lol But the fans were so good natured towards the young lad in Cat Black and Gold, and to see people climbing trees outside Taylor field to watch the game was hilarious. Best fans in the lague by far are in Sask. My Dad played Jr A hockey for Moosejaw back inthe 40's he was born in Lumsden..small world 


Dave


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

Well, that's all great guys. Thanks for the input so far. We raced again Friday night and tested the lap timer again. It really didn't give us any problems during practice, but dang it, in the race it got all screwed up again. The problem seems to be in the lap counting. We were using SRM with IR sensors, but it seems that the other systems we use have the same flaws. I thought maybe it was my car, but the problem seems to be the same, no matter what class we run. It's just ruining the whole race series.  The problem comes up at the end of the race, that's what's so frustrating. You run a whole race, all those heats, and the glitch shows up right at the end. Unbelievably, at the end of each race, no matter what the system, I never have as much lap totals as other people have. We've tried everything. I tried counting my own laps. We added laps at the end. Heck, we even tried designating a corner marshal just to watch my lap totals and make sure the dang thing was counting right, but somewhere in the heat, the guy obviously wasn't paying attention. The deadstrips seems to work better, but , I don't know. Does anyone have another program we could try? Is there a Canadian program that's better?

Rich


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

Dump the IR sensors and go with a dead strip or reed switches.
If you don't like the dead section,go with reed switches,either system is more reliable and simpler then an IR system:thumbsup:

We make it to quite a few of the Roughy/Stamps games in Calgary,always good for a few wobbly pops as you walk by the Roughrider fans tailgate parties,they're some of the best tailgaters around,lol.
Once a Roughrider fan-always a Roughrider fan,lol


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

I have seen rare problems with IR systems where the body had so many windows that the light was still getting through to the sensor and laps were being missed. This is a rare occurrence. With IR, everything works best if your IR emitter diodes peak output wavelength is about the same wavelength as the peak response on your IR sensors. The best way to achieve this is to get a matched pair, like Radio Shack and others sell:

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2049723&tab=summary

You should also check the FAQs on the SRM site and contact the vendor. It sounds like he is actively working on the program again.

http://www.cenobyte.nl/slotracemanager/page10/files/31d59739d3b250d38a70ac7cfd7ea61e-0.html


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

Yes, the SRM site has been very helpful. All the sites have been. SRM this week, Laptimer2000 the week before, and TrakMate before that. Test after test, they all seem to work just fine, but at the end of the race, I never have enough laps.


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

> but at the end of the race, I never have enough laps


Same thing happens to me.


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## Jeff Van Stemp (Feb 3, 2009)

*Dave - are you from Texas or Alberta? or both?*

And where did you get the picture of that cat? That is awesome - I called my wife over to look at it and we howled! It reminds me of the summer of about 1971 when my cousin hurled "Puff" about 23' out into the neighbour's pond. She made it back O.K.
Jeff from Ontario


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## Jeff Van Stemp (Feb 3, 2009)

Nothing wrong with Canadian Football


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## slotnewbie69 (Dec 3, 2008)

hey jeff!did ya have any luck with editing your profile?how about posting photos?


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## demether (Aug 26, 2008)

hi, 

perhaps you can try another software, or detection solution. On my track , I use ILS (reed switchs) and ultimate racer (open source software), and everything work fine, "from box", nothing to fine tune or whatever. 

ANd it works with all types of chassis.

Before I find this setup, I tried a lot fo softwares and detection hardware. Th only one 100% working in race condition is UR + ILS sensors.


Hope it should help


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

Instead of looking at the program,look at your sensors,we had a track in our circuit using SRM,and it never worked right with the IR system,converted it to using reed switches and it made a hell'va differance,just something you might want to try.


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

I'm bumping this up due to the rash of lap counter questions lately.

Maybe it will help.

Rich


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## noddaz (Aug 6, 1999)

*I have to chime in here...*

I have to chime in here with my own experience with LT2K. I recently acquired a nice TKO track and have it in my basement. I haven't set the funds aside yet buy buy a track management system, but during the interim I decided to download LT2K and give it a go. The track is wired with reed sensors. While the track was in operation at the TKO Invitational it was used with no problems. So I figured that this would be easy. I take an old computer out from under my basement sink (that I stored there for just such an emergancy... lol) and hook it to the track. The lane colors are set up red, white, blue, yellow and after more than a few moments of messing around (because I don't have a mouse that fits this old computer) I get the lane colors to match what counts on the track. Except for white..... The white lane does not count. Hmmm... Whatever. It is just for playing around at the moment anyway. After a few days of this I decide what I need is an old laptop. Lose the big bulky monitor and PC case. And also one less thing to plug in. I acquire a Dell Pentium laptop for free. (Thanks Free cycle!) I hook it up to the track, upload LT2K into it an give it a go. Ooops. The plug from the track will not reach the laptop. (Doh!) The other computer was UNDER the track and the cable reached fine. So I run out to the store to buy an extension cable. Nope.. Not in this town. So I hit Radio Shack and buy what I need to make an extension cable and head for home. I whip out some spare wire, hit the contacts with the soldering iron. Wow... Those things are a lot smaller than I remembered. Harder to see too... Whatever. I make the cable, test continuity on all connections and hook her up. All lanes count except for.......... Blue! (huh?) Hmmmm... I am not going to fight this. And don't get me wrong, I am not complaining. LP2K is FREE. And it does let me see what I am doing on my track besides me thinking "Oh yeah! THAT was faster!!!" 
Wait, my track is calling me..... Gotta go!


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

Yeah, I really don't have any problems with SRM.
LT2k is good too, although I have the same problem with my blue lane not counting.
In diagnostic mode on SRM, I can see that the blue IR sensor is opposite of the other three.
The others are normally open and close when activated.
The blue lane is normally closed, and opens when activated.
In SRM, this doesn't matter, but in LT2k it does.

Anyways, I got this computer at a garage sale. 
It's an old Compaq laptop, and SRM works perfect on it.










I'll probably use dead strips on this one.

Rich


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## noddaz (Aug 6, 1999)

*Wow...*

That old computer is cool.... lol


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## wm_brant (Nov 21, 2004)

Steve Medanic wrote an excellent article comparing the various types of lap counter triggers that is over in HOWorld. There is some very good information in this article.

The bottom line is that Steve says that *all* triggers *can* work, but each type of has it's unique set of issues to deal with. In any case, he has some examples of how to test.

Rich, you might want to take a look at how he tests his IR sensors; it might help you, especially when I see that old PC that you are using...

Anyway, here's the link:
http://howorld.fsmra.com/archives/howto/lap_counter_activator_strips/comparison.html

-- Bill


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## wheelszk (Jul 8, 2006)

............................


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## wheelszk (Jul 8, 2006)

[QUOTE= I recently acquired a nice TKO track and have it in my basement. While the track was in operation at the TKO Invitational it was used with no problems. 


Is this the the track the young boy won? :thumbsup:


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

We haven't had anymore lap counter problems. We haven't been racing.


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## noddaz (Aug 6, 1999)

*why, yes it was...*



wheelszk said:


> I recently acquired a nice TKO track and have it in my basement. While the track was in operation at the TKO Invitational it was used with no problems.
> Is this the the track the young boy won? :thumbsup:[/quote said:
> 
> 
> ...


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

Hey, I have a question...

Has anyone ever used one of those printer cable splitters/Y adapter, to send one lap counter signal to two different computers?

Maybe one signal to the computer and another to trigger sounds?


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

It can be done using relays but would require lots of circuit-building and a dedicated sound system to produce _one_ universal "sound", but with so many cool options out there for race management software that incorporates sounds the real question would be.....why?


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

Why is, with all the 'race management software' out there, all of them only make a single car sound.
Most of the sounds are not much better than what I've been making since i was kid.
I guess the real question is, will hooking up another computer to the same sensors interfere with the lap timer?


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

One sound? Man where ya been? Most modern apps support multiple sounds, even down to assigning individual sounds per driver and even more specific sounds for hot laps and such, again on a per-driver basis. This is mucho overkill but just for an example: 



 (don't ferget to turn your sound on). Only one PC required.

:thumbsup:


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

I get the different samples. You can put in any sound your want, but, my point.

When one car trips the lap, his sound starts, when the next car trips the lap,
the first sound is cut short, and the next sound starts. It's restricted to one tone at a time,
except maybe the track command (thirty seconds)(end of race).
Now, I have only used SRM, Laptimer2k, and TrackMate, so, I don't know anything about 
Ultimate Racer, and that new software some guy is working on, the one that's supposed 
to change slot car racing as we know it. Which one is that?

Anyways, I would like to hear about the other programs, in the mean time,
would splitting the signal to two computers interfere with a lap timer program?


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

If you're using dead strip or reeds, no, splitting the signal would not affect the timing PC. With IR sensors, while it wouldn't affect the software it would mess with the voltage across the phototransistors and potentially render them useless.

The software I showed (that new-fangled program, Race Coordinator) does indeed play multiple sounds at the same time, hard to hear as I loaded up the demo with so many different noises but if you listen real closely nothing is cut short except the old-time engine sound which was recorded without a fade-out at the end. This exact feature was something we wanted RC to do and it was just put in a week or two ago, it will be part of the upcoming service release.


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

Loved the Road Runner,that's hilarious Gene:thumbsup:


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

Wow, that is good to hear. Literally! Being a sound guy/ car enthusiast, it bugs me to no end to hear those sampled sounds cut short by another car. The aggravation stems from midi controlled keyboards in the early eighties. Analog was just fine to me, but the big push was to go digital, only problem was you could only use four keys at a time with the then current tech. Well, that quickly grew to eight, then the Yamaha DX7 came out with 16. That seemed to blow everyone away. It dominated the market for five years. This all seemed to come back every time another car crossed the line and cut the sound short.


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

Oh, I guess I should ask, where do you get it? 
And, what features does it have that are supposed to be so much better than other programs?


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

You can get ih here: http://rc.h0slot.ch/download.html

Keep in mind that the version posted does not yet support layered sound, as I said this was incorporated for the next update which will likely be in a few days. Also added is an "On Deck" window, another feature request. Other than that it looks/works just as you see in the demo. If you already have a working parallel port setup, it should be a plug-n-play setup 

This program does require Windows XP (Service Pack 3) or newer.

I'll get to a list of more features later. In short, it can do pretty much anything a high-end program can do...and more actually...for FREE. :thumbsup:


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

Bump, for interested parties.


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