# What is the novak havoc?



## Hudson Hornet ! (Nov 21, 2007)

I keep hearing about this new speedo from novak, the havoc. Does anyone have any info on this? Is this a smaller speedo than we are used to?


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## DAVON (Aug 18, 2005)

Hudson Hornet ! said:


> I keep hearing about this new speedo from novak, the havoc. Does anyone have any info on this? Is this a smaller speedo than we are used to?


HERE'S ALL THE INFO ON IT...:woohoo:

http://www.teamnovak.com/products/brushless/havoc_sport/index.html


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## Robertw321 (Apr 26, 2002)

DAVON said:


> HERE'S ALL THE INFO ON IT...:woohoo:
> 
> http://www.teamnovak.com/products/brushless/havoc_sport/index.html


 
Looking at the size and specs, it's just a rebadged XBR.


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## 420 Tech R/C (Sep 15, 2006)

Yep , just a rebadged XBR. Probally has some software difference or something, but hardware wise It's an XBR


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## Donnie_99 (Sep 25, 2001)

yea u think novak would at least try to build a smaller brushless only speedo


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## NovakTwo (Feb 8, 2006)

Donnie_99 said:


> yea u think novak would at least try to build a smaller brushless only speedo


 We did. It's called the Mongoose....

Some racers are using it with the 17.5 motor, 4 cell, in 12th scale cars.


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## Hudson Hornet ! (Nov 21, 2007)

Novak two, what will the havoc be priced at?


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## NovakTwo (Feb 8, 2006)

Hudson Hornet ! said:


> Novak two, what will the havoc be priced at?


Street price is $139.99.


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## Hudson Hornet ! (Nov 21, 2007)

Is that for the esc and a motor, or just the esc. Also, what are some of the differences between the havoc and the xbr? I am in the market for a system, and I will definetly want a Novak, but I am having trouble deciding. Thanks in advance for the answers.


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## NovakTwo (Feb 8, 2006)

Hudson Hornet ! said:


> Is that for the esc and a motor, or just the esc. Also, what are some of the differences between the havoc and the xbr? I am in the market for a system, and I will definetly want a Novak, but I am having trouble deciding. Thanks in advance for the answers.


The 139.99 is the system price. Think of it as a upgraded XBR featuring all our newest on board, programming features.

Same mosfets, BEC and performance of the XBR. Here is our updated speed control spec chart:

Speed Control Specifications


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## Donnie_99 (Sep 25, 2001)

*smaller esc*

so can the mongoose be used in 17.5 lipo tenth scale car??


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## NovakTwo (Feb 8, 2006)

Donnie_99 said:


> so can the mongoose be used in 17.5 lipo tenth scale car??


No---the only tests we are aware of are the 17.5/4 NiMH cells in 12th scale


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## Donnie_99 (Sep 25, 2001)

ok wont do me any good then


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## siggy99x (Dec 2, 2006)

The Havoc is a dirt oval car from Hyperdrive you would think Novak could at least come up with there own name!!


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## swtour (Oct 8, 2001)

Donnie,

I've been reading on RCTech where some have used the mongoose w/ 17.5 and 21.5 lipo w/ NO problems. I believe HUMPTY said he's using a MONGOOSE too, but I don't remember what he said he's using it in (21.5/LIPO or 1/12th scale) 

I've been told (unofficially) that is should work w/ LIPO and 17.5 ok.

...I need a couple to run through the ringer testing...but spent TOO much on (NON-R/C) Racing Equipment...


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## brian0525 (Jan 17, 2005)

on-resistance is 3 times higher on this than a GTB so it won't really work for oval unless that doesn't bother you.


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## T4sforme (Dec 31, 2007)

I am thinking about buying one of these systems for my b4. I am planning on running it in club racing at a offroad track. Does anyone have a testimonial on how well the system works?

I know it is a rebadged xbr, but how does the xbr work?

I have a older GTB with a 13.5 that works well, but I don't have the cash for another GTB.

Any info. would be great.

Thx.


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## 420 Tech R/C (Sep 15, 2006)

T4sforme said:


> I am thinking about buying one of these systems for my b4. I am planning on running it in club racing at a offroad track. Does anyone have a testimonial on how well the system works?
> 
> I know it is a rebadged xbr, but how does the xbr work?
> 
> ...


I have 4 xbr's.I have ran them in trucks,buggies, 4wd,1/12.They work great.nice budget speedo for sure.and I have pushed the limits with them as far as motors. they WILL handle a 7.5 in 2wd buggy.I dont know about a truck or 4wd.I have even removed the heatsink on 1 of them for running 1/12 and have had NO issues .tough little speedos for sure.


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## nutz4rc (Oct 14, 2003)

I agree completely. I have two XBRs and they work flawlessly. One in a CW 1/10th Sprint with 13.5 and one in Legend with 13.5 EX. No issues with either. I read on Novak site that the Havock has more profiles than the XBR and some improvements, so I would say they would work fine.


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## T4sforme (Dec 31, 2007)

Thx. 420 Tech R/C and nutz4rc. That is the info. I was hoping for. Now all I need to do is talk the LHS into getting me one of these systems.


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## gndprx (Aug 30, 2006)

Are there any plans to release the Havoc with something other than an 8.5?

This would be a great inexpensive way to "downgrade" and get a 17.5 system for the new stock class rules.


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## NovakTwo (Feb 8, 2006)

gndprx said:


> Are there any plans to release the Havoc with something other than an 8.5?
> 
> This would be a great inexpensive way to "downgrade" and get a 17.5 system for the new stock class rules.


We will be releasing info on two Havoc spec combos soon---the 17.5 and 21.5. The street price on these will be slightly higher and they will include our ROAR-approved SS Pro motors with the colored timing rings.

We have received many customer requests for these spec systems, so we decided to make them available before Christmas.


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## gndprx (Aug 30, 2006)

Just caught that announcement over on RCTech as well.

Awesome job. That will be hands down the most cost effective way to get legal in next years stock class. Also works great for VTA and some Oval classes.


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## popsss (Nov 15, 2006)

i got 8.5 havoc 141.00 motor and esc
from what i heard hovoc is xbr with the bugs removed


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## 420 Tech R/C (Sep 15, 2006)

popsss said:


> i got 8.5 havoc 141.00 motor and esc
> from what i heard hovoc is xbr with the bugs removed


$141.00 for a motor/esc combo....I remember 2 years ago when you had to pay that for a good brushed esc alone..Isnt technology,and the mass production of it a wonderfull thing.. 


Also wondering what are the differences between the havok and the XBR esc's.I have 4 XBR's and was wondering if there would be any benefit from switching over to havok esc's.


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## NovakTwo (Feb 8, 2006)

420 Tech R/C said:


> $141.00 for a motor/esc combo....I remember 2 years ago when you had to pay that for a good brushed esc alone..Isnt technology,and the mass production of it a wonderfull thing..
> 
> 
> Also wondering what are the differences between the havok and the XBR esc's.I have 4 XBR's and was wondering if there would be any benefit from switching over to havok esc's.


I checked out the specs for both the original XBR and the new Havoc esc and the primary difference is the programming. The XBR has three adjustable profiles, but the Havoc features a single "motor mapping" programming area.

Fully programmable, user-friendly interface with nine adjustable parameters: 

Minimum Brake (10 settings from 0-27%), 
Drag Brake (10 settings from 0-27%), 
Dead Band (5 settings from 2-6%), 
Minimum Drive (5 settings from 1-5%), 
Throttle Curve (Linear and Expo), 
Brake Frequency* (7 settings from 1-8 kHz), 
Reverse*, 
Motor Rotation* and 
Li-Po Cut-Off


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## King Dork (Nov 23, 2008)

Also, the 8.5 motor that comes in the Havoc combo has a sintered rotor, where the 8.5 EX Sport motor in the XBR combo does not.:thumbsup:


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## ta_man (Apr 10, 2005)

NovakTwo said:


> I checked out the specs for both the original XBR and the new Havoc esc and the primary difference is the programming. The XBR has three adjustable profiles, but the Havoc features a single "motor mapping" programming area.
> 
> Fully programmable, user-friendly interface with nine adjustable parameters:
> 
> ...


Why does the Havoc have a 27turn limit (540 size) in brushed mode when the XBR had no motor limit in brushed mode? What's different?


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## Butters16 (Dec 14, 2002)

What is a brushed motor?? LOL


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## kevinm (Jan 16, 2002)

ta_man said:


> Why does the Havoc have a 27turn limit (540 size) in brushed mode when the XBR had no motor limit in brushed mode? What's different?


Looks like a "typo" to me .....


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## 420 Tech R/C (Sep 15, 2006)

Butters16 said:


> What is a brushed motor?? LOL


x2!!:thumbsup:


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## ta_man (Apr 10, 2005)

Butters16 said:


> What is a brushed motor?? LOL





420 Tech R/C said:


> x2!!:thumbsup:


I know what they are and even if I never run one with a Havoc, I am curious why the difference between the XBR and the Havoc. Does the difference have any rammifications when running brushless?


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## kra2y (May 31, 2008)

i did read that you can only run brushless motors that have temp sensors in them or the esc wont run the motor. I dont know if other motors other than novak have temp sensor in the motor. 
Anybody know of a brushless motor that has the temp senor?


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## ta_man (Apr 10, 2005)

kra2y said:


> i did read that you can only run brushless motors that have temp sensors in them or the esc wont run the motor. I dont know if other motors other than novak have temp sensor in the motor.
> Anybody know of a brushless motor that has the temp senor?


Did you read that in a Novak post, a Novak spec sheet, or a statement by someone that has definitive knowledge (such as a Novak employee)?

I've lost count of the number of times I've seen people on these boards make definitive and absolute statements that were later proven untrue.

This would be a change in the way Novak builds their controllers (not to say that can't happen, but it _would_ be a change) because you can find lots of posts by people who state that they (themselves, not someone else) have cut the temp sensor wire on Novak motors and run them with Novak speed controls so the controller won't shut down the motor if it gets too hot.


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## kevinm (Jan 16, 2002)

kra2y said:


> i did read that you can only run brushless motors that have temp sensors in them or the esc wont run the motor. I dont know if other motors other than novak have temp sensor in the motor.
> Anybody know of a brushless motor that has the temp senor?


This is most likely a misunderstanding of the difference between "sensored" and "sensorless". The motor MUST be a "sensored" type for a Novak ESC, but the required sensors are for rotor position. The temperature sensor is an extra device in Novak motors to prevent you from burning up the windings. I've got a couple of motors where the temp. sensor has apparently failed (can't read any resistance with a meter) and my Novak ESCs still run them.


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## kra2y (May 31, 2008)

i read it on the spec sheet for the havoc esc.


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## kra2y (May 31, 2008)

MOTOR COMPATIBILITY
The Havoc ESC and motor contain Thermal Overload Protection circuitry to protect the system from overheating and damage. In fact, the ESC will only operate with brushless motors that have built-in thermal protection that follow ROAR guidelines, such as Novak’s SS Pro Brushless Motors (#3408 - #3421.) This sophisticated feature ensures a fun day at the track without the worry of overheating. For the complete list of compatible motors,

copy and paste from novak website.


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## kra2y (May 31, 2008)

if novak motors are the only compatible it is a bs move by novak.


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## NovakTwo (Feb 8, 2006)

I asked Bob to comment, and here is his response:



> Bob Novak: The question really should be "Why don't the other brushless, sensored motor manufacturers offer their motors with thermal overload protection?" It only costs a few pennies more to add the extra thermal sensing diode to the motor sensor board. As a consumer I would want to buy a product that was designed and manufactured for reliability as well as customer satisfaction.
> 
> Here at Novak, we have always designed our products with the customer's satisfaction in mind. During the years that we made speed controls for brushed motors, one of the primary failures in ESC's was caused by motors' overheating, which led to a shorted motor which then shorted out the ESC. This cost the customer more money because they not only had to replace the motor, they also had to replace the ESC.
> 
> ...


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## kevinm (Jan 16, 2002)

I just checked all of my brushless motors with an ohmmeter. The Orion and Fantom Ion (really Trinity) motors DO have temp sensors in them. The original LRP "Neo One" motor has a sensor on the circuit board, but it's not connected to the outside world connector . 

My Novak motors are another story. 4 out of 7 have sensors that apparently have failed. (none are new enough to be covered by warranty.) The sensor is still on the PC board, but shows open circuit at the connector. It seems like the sensor that's put there for reliability isn't very reliable. Guess I'll have to splice in an external resistor if I buy a Havoc someday....


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## NovakTwo (Feb 8, 2006)

kevinm said:


> I just checked all of my brushless motors with an ohmmeter. The Orion and Fantom Ion (really Trinity) motors DO have temp sensors in them. The original LRP "Neo One" motor has a sensor on the circuit board, but it's not connected to the outside world connector .
> 
> My Novak motors are another story. 4 out of 7 have sensors that apparently have failed. (none are new enough to be covered by warranty.) The sensor is still on the PC board, but shows open circuit at the connector. It seems like the sensor that's put there for reliability isn't very reliable. Guess I'll have to splice in an external resistor if I buy a Havoc someday....


I haven't heard of a "failed sensor" issue, but I will check with the tech guys and let them know what you have found.

We offer a motor replacement/exchange program for all of our out of warranty BL motors (and everything else).


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## ta_man (Apr 10, 2005)

NovakTwo said:


> I haven't heard of a "failed sensor" issue, but I will check with the tech guys and let them know what you have found.
> 
> We offer a motor replacement/exchange program for all of our out of warranty BL motors (and everything else).


Another failed sensor issue:

I've got a SS5800 that I tried to use with a Havoc and I got the LED sequence that indicates the motor has no thermal protection.

Looked at the exchange program: $49 for the exchange fee, plus $5 handling fee and $8 return shipping fee, plus $3 for my cost to ship it to Novak came to $65 to, effectively, replace the [unreliable, but added for reliability] thermal diode that cost a few pennies to add to my motor. 

Eventually a solution dawned: I had another 5800 that I was using with a Castle ESC. Checked that out and the temp sensor worked on that one. So I swapped them. I hope the thermal diode doesn't die on this one too.


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## NovakTwo (Feb 8, 2006)

ta_man said:


> Looked at the exchange program: $49 for the exchange fee, plus $5 handling fee and $8 return shipping fee, plus $3 for my cost to ship it to Novak came to $65 to, effectively, replace the [unreliable, but added for reliability] thermal diode that cost a few pennies to add to my motor.


I have forwarded the sensor comments to our engineering department. When I get a comment, I will post here.

Swapping an old 5800 motor for the newer, SS Pro 10.5 is not as attractive financially as returning a newer motor for replacement or exchange. Replacing a newer motor is 39.00, or exchanging it among _twenty-one_ other motors for 44.00 offers customers a lot of flexibility.

Do we get a bit of credit for exchanging obsolete, non-remanufacturable motors at all? :thumbsup:


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## ta_man (Apr 10, 2005)

NovakTwo said:


> I have forwarded the sensor comments to our engineering department. When I get a comment, I will post here.
> 
> Swapping an old 5800 motor for the newer, SS Pro 10.5 is not as attractive financially as returning a newer motor for replacement or exchange. Replacing a newer motor is 39.00, or exchanging it among _twenty-one_ other motors for 44.00 offers customers a lot of flexibility.
> 
> *Do we get a bit of credit for exchanging obsolete, non-remanufacturable motors at all?* :thumbsup:


*Most definitely!*:thumbsup: But fortunately, I didn't need to do that right now since I had another one.

Bob Novak explained the reason for adding the temp sensor check to the Havoc but it was, none the less, sad  to find what appeared to be a working, though obsolete, motor could not be used with my new speed control.


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## NovakTwo (Feb 8, 2006)

ta_man said:


> *Most definitely!*:thumbsup: But fortunately, I didn't need to do that right now since I had another one.
> 
> Bob Novak explained the reason for adding the temp sensor check to the Havoc but it was, none the less, sad  *to find what appeared to be a working, though obsolete, motor could not be used with my new speed control.*


We have a page of Novak motors that are compatible with the Havoc 2S or 3S controllers:

HAVOC MOTOR COMPATIBILITY

Lo and behold, (and much to my surprise ), both the old 4300 and 5800 are on the list! So your old 5800 motor "should" work. There is nothing incompatible about the old motors and the new Havoc circuitry.


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## ta_man (Apr 10, 2005)

NovakTwo said:


> We have a page of Novak motors that are compatible with the Havoc 2S or 3S controllers:
> 
> HAVOC MOTOR COMPATIBILITY
> 
> Lo and behold, (and much to my surprise ), both the old 4300 and 5800 are on the list! So your old 5800 motor "should" work. *There is nothing incompatible about the old motors and the new Havoc circuitry.*


I understand that. The thermal sensor on the one that doesn't work is bad. It shows an open circuit (when measured with an ohmmeter). The other one (an otherwise identical original SS5800) reads about 11K ohms across the thermal sensor and works fine. The one with the bad thermal sensor works with the castle ESC.

I looked at a sensor board (from another defunct motor) to see if I could replace the thermal sensor. Boy is it small!


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## Mike D. (Mar 4, 2009)

i have had many novak esc's and brushless motors, (that should tell ya right there) never again! have had problems with all of them. lot of over heating issues, ran same gears with vxl system, no problem. never had a problem with the vxl system, well i cant say that, i did have one problem and it still exsits, have to re-gear to calm it down a tad.


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## kevinm (Jan 16, 2002)

You could probably fool the ESC into thinking the temp. sensor is OK by soldering a 12k resistor between the blue & black wires. Not as hard as the "microsurgery" required to replace the tiny temp. sensor.


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## ta_man (Apr 10, 2005)

kevinm said:


> You could probably fool the ESC into thinking the temp. sensor is OK by soldering a 12k resistor between the blue & black wires. Not as hard as the "microsurgery" required to replace the tiny temp. sensor.


If I came across another motor I wanted to run with the Havoc that had a bad temp sensor I was going to do something like that. Actually, try to make a short extension harness with the resistor in place so it would only need to be done once. Or if I could just buy an extension harness (don't know if they sell such things with one each of male and female plug) I would modify that.


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