# Briggs-john Deere Dilemma



## THECANOPYGUY (Dec 26, 2004)

*Briggs-John Deere Dilemma*

Briggs-John Deere Dilemma

I know this is long but please read and see if you can help!!

In July 2003 I purchased a new John Deere l100 lawn tractor from Home Depot Model Number GXL100A074292. Simultaneously I purchased a four-year extended at home service Home Depot Warranty. I thought I was buying the best brand and the last mower I would ever have. While mowing the yard in June 2004 the Briggs & Stratton 17HP 31F7070112 Type E1 Code 9177A blew up and sent the piston rod out the side of the case. I called the warranty hot line and reported the problem. Almost two weeks later a John Deere dealers driver stopped by to pick up the mower. When asked why he was not going to just replace the motor I was told John deere did not honor Home Depots in home service. The driver advised me that it was there busiest time of the year and since it was purchased at Home Depot they would not have time to look at it for at least several weeks. Needless to say I called the local Home Depot in a rage. The Home Depot lawn & garden department manager apologized and arranged for a loaner mower to be delivered. Now in December Home Depot picked their loaner and two days later I got what is left of my new John Deere back. The machine had been left outside in the sun and weather all summer. The battery dead, seat discolored, tires flat, deck and frame rusty. The motor was disassembled in two boxes with a note on the work order stating that John Deere had declined to cover the repair under warranty. The reason given was out of oil. (When it broke there was oil all over the frame and mower deck and after six months enough oil was left in the crankcase to tell it was almost clear and not burnt. Piston, rings and cylinder walls like new.) The John Deere dealer said if I wanted it fixed the cost would be $1,271.60 (Cost of a brand new John Deere L100 machine is $1,499.00). I have spent the last few days trying to find information about pre-existing problems with either the machine or engine. I found that the engine was only in production for a short period of time before being replaced with a new number 31G7070026 and a new short block number of 697761. Briggs & Stratton would only say that it the old number had a few compression issues but would not elaborate or send me any further information. After all this rambling my question is. Does anyone have knowledge or information that could help me get this covered by one of the three warranties that was supposed to be covering this machine? Friends have suggested legal action but I can’t afford that.


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## bugman (Aug 12, 2004)

yeah i've heard that the john deeres from home depot for some reason is crap. now if you were to ask me personally if you can get your money back your better off buying an mtd or craftsman etc. they are cheaper and for the amount of money you spent on the deere you could get a way better one or two for that price. mtd's are cheap and are fairly good. or you could find the relative same hp engine used or new and put it on. some briggs engines when they come out are crappy until they get the bugs out. sounds to me the engine just threw a rod. probably the oil ran low or the rod end cap was not on right you can never really tell. but its just cheaper to buy a mtd etc. sometimes just for the engine. but i would seek small claims court on the mower. sounds to me they just got your money got the machine and well left it out to rott and give it back to you so basically you were more screwed and the oil was gone. i would go to small claims court though. if you get your money back get a craftsman, bolens, mtd whatever. they are cheap and they last a long time. the wear on it depends on how well you take care of it. if its taken care of it'll last a long time.


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## scrench (Dec 8, 2004)

Code 9177A that is a 1991 engine sounds like it was probally not serviced right by someone that knew what they were doing probally running too fast out of the" box " if you get your money back get a craftsman" that jd is almost craftsman ayp american yard product !! that is a briggs issue not john deere , sounds to me like you are getting the runarround, they could have short blocked it i'm sure i will check for you monday and see if that engine had any problems , but being bought in 03 well it should have been fixed , they should have went to bat for you , i would say that you are getting the attitude from them because you bought it from Home Depot .and not them i can see that they might make you wait for someone from briggs to look at it , but , they could have fixed it under warranty if they would have tried , did a briggs tech look @ it ? that would be my first question , second question who looked at it and what did they determine i think i would want that in black and white , did they charge you ?The battery dead, seat discolored, tires flat, deck and frame rusty.verry un-professional.also liable that would be civil court issue i think , The motor was disassembled in two boxes with a note on the work order stating that John Deere had declined that is not a john deere warranty !!!!!!!!!! thats briggs ! i will help you all i can !! i would take it somew here else NOW


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## bugman (Aug 12, 2004)

i know get a cheap one if you get your money back, just the other day i saw a brand new 42 inch murray with a 17 something briggs. 800 some bucks at the wal-mart. at least i know craftsman stands by their warranty because only sears sell em. hell murray's going out you could probablly get one for a steal. mtd's are cheap as well. thats why i say get a cheap one. just because its a deere don't mean it won't have probs. all have their probs. now if its cheap to get another engine and they did not screw the mower up much i say take em to court, get your money and fix it if you can. they should replace it in my thinking. home depot or deere. even briggs should be held to it to a faulty engine. if it was a faulty engine then deere and home depot should be held to it for selling em if they knew about it. took apart the engine and gave it to you in parts. said no oil in it. no crap there was no oil in it. heck you could sue em for the mower and for mental anguish. they put you through it.


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## THECANOPYGUY (Dec 26, 2004)

Scrench
I appreciate your offer to help. I want to thank you in advance for anything you can find out. You asked some questions that I don’t have answers for. I don’t know who looked at it if anyone except the John Deere dealer. When I called the dealer to find out why it did not get fixed I was told that the technician had determined the engine had probably been abused and run out of oil because no oil was in the crankcase and it had a burnt smell and someone else had agreed with him. I told him that was impossible because oil poured out everywhere when it blew up and furthermore the case still has oil in it and it is almost clear and no smell except oil. He said he did not personally look at it and the technician no longer works there so if I didn’t want to pay to get it fixed there was nothing else he could do. Home Depot had just started selling the John Deere lawn tractors when I purchased it so it doesn’t seam possible it would have a 1991 engine in a brand new 2003 mower. Also from what I have found out so far the model went from (my number) 31F7070112 to (new number) 31G7070026 very quickly. Also why would the short block replacement number have also changed? We suffered extensive uninsured damage from three hurricanes this summer so the expense of repair, replacement or legal action is out of the question for the foreseeable future.


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## scrench (Dec 8, 2004)

the first two digits of the code on any briggs is the year of the engine , if it was ran out of oil / to any tech that has a clue what they are looking @ it is verry obvious !!!! if the engine has been ran without oil in it , first thing the crankshaft will have blue shade to it ,second will have what they call welding ; where the rod gets so hot that the crank shaft has alum , stuck to it ,.the cyl wall will show the signs of heat , man i would take it somewhere else ! and tell them what the deal is , i have never had a problem with briggs or kohler with any warranty issues it all depends on who you take it to !!!!!! i think if you find the right briggs dealer<==={{{ you will get it it taken care of no questions asked the tech said had probally !!!! probly there is no sutch word in warranty as probly , you should not have any problems with this one do you have any of this on black and white ?


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## bugman (Aug 12, 2004)

yeah do find a good dealer. some will or rather most will take you for em. do what scrench says check the parts of the engine. might be someone forgot something or the rod or what ever had a defect. i tell you that does suck man but do have something on paper. reciepts everything.


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## scrench (Dec 8, 2004)

that jd is almost craftsman ayp american yard product !! oops i said "ayp" i ment to say mtd


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## starfire383 (Dec 27, 2004)

Wow, that sux. From what I've heard, I'd make a stand with home depot. And I would make a huge issue of the fact it came back weathered and neglected too. There's lots of conditions that cause failures like that, that are the manufacturer's fault. Like improper clearances, or a "soft" top end component causing metal pollution that starts the chain of failure. I honestly do not know how anyone could ever pin the blame on crankcase oil level. Maybe one of their "warrantied" seals failed 15 minutes earlier, and you never noticed the oil leave. You can only say with certainty that there was a lubrication failure. So many causes, causes that should be warrantied. Sounds more like your dealer did not want to work for the warranty paid hourly rate. 
The Depot sells lots of tractors. I bet you can work something, even if it's a lesser model for free. The fact you didn't ruin the loaner gives assurance that you're not an abuser. Chase it up the chain of command, involve the better business bureau. You'll probably be beyond the local store manager level when it's done. I'll take persistence over contract fine print anyday. Good luck!!


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## scrench (Dec 8, 2004)

involve the better business bureau <-----------((((( for sure like starfire said


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## bugman (Aug 12, 2004)

yep exactly get them on em and they might give either your money back or another one.


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## starfire383 (Dec 27, 2004)

Oh, I almost forgot. I work for a manufacturer of aircraft engines. We have "field" returns, and failures on startup all the time. So just remember that when the warranty reps are telling you that there's no way a tractor engine could have a manufacturing defect. It happens every day on stuff that's far more closely inspected. 
Personally, I'd insist on a whole new tractor, and offer depreciation or some other cash incentive to prove I'm not a con artist, and to reflect the fact you did get some use out of it. But a reman engine installed at no cost would seem fair too.


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## scrench (Dec 8, 2004)

i have never had a problem getting short block or long block engines from briggs , the only problem i see here is where he took it , i have even had one that the customer told us he changed the oil ,and had to go the phone came back and forgot he drained it , locked it up ,briggs short blocked it !! 18 hp vanguard , reason being honest customer, true story ,i dont think they will give him another unit but i think they will replace the engine they wont long block unless the flywheel is broken ,head broken ,it might take awhile though someone from briggs will want to look at it if it is a good trustworthy shop they will go ahead and fix it and briggs will call the engine to look at it and see why it happened if it's something they have had trouble with then it's no questions asked ,briggs has had some trouble in the past but verry little compared to the masses of engines they have kicked out, briggs warranty = A+ IN MY BOOK


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## scrench (Dec 8, 2004)

ask the jd dealer for a copy of the warranty claim they submitted ,


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## bugman (Aug 12, 2004)

briggs stands by there stuff. me i've got two certified dealers and parts/fixing shops around here. kinda cheap and certified by briggs. most of the time for buisness purposes they will have their degree on saying they passed the certification tests. look for those if you do go to a small engine shop to make sure yourself. some will scam you. had some tell people to clean the foam filters out with soap and water which is right. don't tell em to drain em and dry em good. so they buy new mowers every year. oh boy where they mad when i told em wash it out and dry em good or for a quick clean, clean it out with gas. of course the dealer was not certified. ooooooo always make extras of your reciepts etc. keep the originals until needed, most will screw you over and tell you it got lost and deny your claim. or say something was not filled out right. had em do it to me, had my copy's. they shut up and gave me my money back.


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## bbnissan (Nov 7, 2004)

bugman said:


> most of the time for buisness purposes they will have their degree on saying they passed the certification tests. look for those if you do go to a small engine shop to make sure yourself.


Just a little word of warning here...those "degrees" and/or certificates really don't mean anything. All it means is that you attended a seminar at the local distributor or attended a weekend school for a particular manufacturer. All you need to do to get the certificates is show up. You don't have to learn anything...just show up.

In my opnion you can learn more about the reputation of a shop by asking around. Find several people that have delt with the shop before and see what their opinion of the shop is. It's sort of like the difference between the John Deere dealer in my town and the shop I worked at...if you ask anyone about the John Deere dealer, they will tell you that a bunch of lying assholes (excuse my French) run it. Just to give you an example...a friend of mine took his John Deere 160 to the local dealer because the electric PTO was engaging/disengaging erratically. After charging him $380 for a tune-up and to replace the PTO switch, the problem was still there. He took it back to them and they quoted him another $300 to replace the PTO, so he asked me to take a look at it. I simply reset the air gap on the PTO by adjusting the 3 bolts on it and he hasn't had any trouble with it since! It was a simple adjustment that they should have made before replacing a bunch of parts. If you ask people about the shop I worked in, almost all of them will tell you that we are a fair and reliable shop with the cheapest prices and fastest turn around time in town. In fact, we gain most of our business by word of mouth.


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## THECANOPYGUY (Dec 26, 2004)

I have done what you guys suggested and called the John Deere dealer and requested the written warranty denial forms. He is mailing me the one from John Deere but says the Briggs & Stratton and the Home Depot extended warranty denials were both verbal over the phone. Not being in that business I don’t know weather that’s standard practice or not. Scrench were you able to find any information about that model number yet?


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## scrench (Dec 8, 2004)

"Just a little word of warning here...those "degrees" and/or certificates really don't mean anything. All it means is that you attended a seminar at the local distributor or attended a weekend school for a particular manufacturer. All you need to do to get the certificates is show up. You don't have to learn anything...just show up." i agree not!!!! however in order to get a certificate means that you or the shop that sent you to that seminar is able to do warranty those seminars are to up date us on just the verry things that started this thread ! i pm'd you canopyguy . he should a copy of what he submitted , did they charge you ?


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## scrench (Dec 8, 2004)

THECANOPYGUY said:


> I have done what you guys suggested and called the John Deere dealer and requested the written warranty denial forms. He is mailing me the one from John Deere but says the Briggs & Stratton and the Home Depot extended warranty denials were both verbal over the phone. Not being in that business I don’t know weather that’s standard practice or not. Scrench were you able to find any information about that model number yet?


 i guess its possible , its not the way i have done it , i just do what i know warranty will cover , but they hardley ever call on the engines , i have done some snapper warranty on eaton hydrostats that they had some problems with that they called on but , to do it over the phone no not the common way for me , is this the only shop in your area ? if it is i want to know where this is cause i'm packing up and moving there !!!


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## THECANOPYGUY (Dec 26, 2004)

No they did not charge me. The service order showed $117.00 labor and $135.00 pickup & delivery. There are two certified Briggs & Stratton certified shops within three miles of the house but the John Deere dealer was forty thee miles away. Yesterday I took what is left of the engine up to one of the Briggs warranty shops here in town and tried to explain the situation. They were not real excited about excepting an engine in several boxes but said he would see what he could do. No promises.


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## THECANOPYGUY (Dec 26, 2004)

Update on my piece of crap John Deere L100 lawn tractor. I know this does not solve the problem and I still need help finding known problems with the 31F7070112 Briggs engine but I was able to purchase a like new 31C7070230 replace engine on e-bay for $200.00. Still no word from the Briggs shop I took the old one to but it is New Years week and the Briggs & Stratton rep must have had more important things to do than worry about some poor smocks engine. My New Years resolution is to tell as many people as possible that just because it is an over priced John Deere product it is good equipment because it is not.
Reputation and warranty mean nothing to them just sell sell sell. At one time Green and Yellow meant quality now it means dollars and lemons!!!


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## THECANOPYGUY (Dec 26, 2004)

Forgot to mention I received the written warranty denial from the John Deere dealer yesterday. It stated the one-year warranty had expired prior to John Deere receiving the warranty request.

The mower was purchased from Home Depot in July 2003. It was picked up by John Deere in June 2004 and request for warranty was not submitted until November 2004. The reason given for the late request was because of the three hurricanes this summer.


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## starfire383 (Dec 27, 2004)

Green and yellow still means quality on the stuff they actually build. But the entire lawn and garden line is "badge engineering". JD's involvement is pretty much limited to colors, graphics, and bulk purchase prices. I worked for Deere (actual tractor design and manuf) during the 90s, when much of this problem started. They got their first true international, slick suit, CEO. Instead of focusing on fixing the campany's root problem (manufacturing ops), he laid the lawn and garden re-badge scheme on em. And he got rewarded with huge compensation for YOUR low-quality, high price equipment. And rewarded for squandering the best quality rep in the business. 
Good luck, I'd fight to the bitter end. Actually, with timeline proof your dealer's incompetence caused the warranty denial- you just took a big step forward. I'd revert to the original new tractor request, because of the weathering. Even if it means a seperate warranty claim for "paint damage". If should be much easier to convince a Depot or Deere warranty claim manager that you were wronged.


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## bugman (Aug 12, 2004)

yep i know a man who buys the real jd's and they are good. he used it for five years commercially. be still good if the engine was rebuilt. we have a jd place right near here and well they only sell the upper levels and the lower ones like the one you bought are very rare to be seen.


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## bbnissan (Nov 7, 2004)

bugman said:


> yep i know a man who buys the real jd's and they are good. he used it for five years commercially. be still good if the engine was rebuilt. we have a jd place right near here and well they only sell the upper levels and the lower ones like the one you bought are very rare to be seen.


I also know a guy that buys nothing but JD's. He has a landscaping business and he has been using the same mowers (2 21" walk behinds and 2 54" walk behinds) for over 10 years now. It all depends on which line you buy.

A good rule of thumb for a John Deere is this: If it doesn't have a Kawasaki engine on it, it's not worth buying. They use nothing buy Kawasaki engines on their commercial mowers and Briggs engines on their crap mowers. There is nothing wrong with the Briggs engines, they juse put them on the crap mowers to lower their costs.


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## scrench (Dec 8, 2004)

MTD = john deere = cub cadet= the only problem here is the shop where the mower went to ! i think you will get what you want in the end ,,,most of these reps are a joke ,, way too good or smart to even talk to the little guy with wrenches in our hands ,,,, if some of them would ask what is on our minds , they would learn alot,, most of them wont even give out a 2 dollar hat , they aint what they used to be ,, they just push pencils it's all about the $$'s but there are a few good ones left


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## bbnissan (Nov 7, 2004)

scrench said:


> MTD = john deere = cub cadet


John Deer is not an MTD by any stretch of the imagination...even the cheap ones! MTD makes Cub Cadet, Bolens, Troybilt, some of the Husqvarna line, White, and Yard Machines.


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## bugman (Aug 12, 2004)

i would go out on a limb and say the only mower's worth the money was the old ones. murray, jd, etc. i've seen murrays from 20 some odd years ago outlast a new one. same goes for jd's and craftsmans etc. sure craftsmans are ayp but the old ones to me were good. just look at my murray 8 one time and well you'll see. the old briggs engine's still going strong and the body is stought and can take hell. trust me i took it offroad in a field and nothin broke or tried to. I know they are ayp but i love my craftsmans due in fact to great warranty's i've had. nothin with me has ever gone wrong with em. but the engine's the main factor to most. and the deck.


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## scrench (Dec 8, 2004)

humm i sure thought they were .


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## bugman (Aug 12, 2004)

actually i beleive mtd copied the jd'rs and they had a suit against that so they aren't. search it on google you'll find out yourself.


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## bugman (Aug 12, 2004)

they were using the deere symbol. the jumping deer


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## THECANOPYGUY (Dec 26, 2004)

I have been working on a letter that I plan on hand delivering to the Home Depot where I purchased it. Some guys from another site have been helping and giving some good input. I would like your thoughts also.
Too much – Too little Too harsh – Not harsh enough Incorrect information Spelling errors. I am open to any suggestions. I want to do it right the first time.


January 5, 2005

Chris Molton
2601 W. Vine Street
Kissimmee FL 

CC: Robert L. Nardelli
Annette M. Verschuren
Carol B. Tome
Frank L. Fernandes

Re: John Deere dilemma 

Dear Mr. Motton,

Consider this letter as my request for a refund of $1,853.92 to cover the cost of the John Deere L100 tractor, sales tax and Home Depot extended service plan I purchased from Home Depot or in the alternative a replacement lawn tractor of at least equal size and power.

After shopping several other stores on July 29, 2003 I took my Home Depots salesman’s advice and purchased a new John Deere L100 lawn tractor. I thought I was buying the best brand name on the market and the last mower I would ever have. I was told at the time I was paying a little more because I was buying a high quality John Deere product that would last for years and years and not a department store brand that would only have a life expectancy of five to seven years and that Home Depot was now the largest John Deere dealer in the country assuring me of the best after the sale service of anyone. To further protect my investment the salesman suggested I simultaneously purchased a four-year extended at home service Home Depot warranty. The salesman meticulously explained to me that it would extend the John Deere warranty by three years and would extend the Briggs & Stratton warranty by two more years plus the convenience of having someone come to the house to repair any problems instead of having to bring it back to Home Depot for service. He explained this was a Home Depot exclusive protection and not offered by other John Deere Dealers. It sounded like an excellent plan so I purchased it also.

While mowing the yard in early June 2004 the Briggs & Stratton 17-HP 31F7070112 engine blew up and sent piston rod pieces out the side of the case sending oil flying everywhere. I called the warranty hot line and reported the problem immediately. Over a week later a John Deere dealers (Lawn Power and Equipment, Inc.) driver stopped by to pick up the mower. Not a technician or mechanic as I was expecting with my extended service Home Depot in home warranty. When asked why he was not going to just replace the motor I was told John Deere did not honor Home Depots in home service. The driver advised me that it was there busiest time of the year and since it was purchased at Home Depot they would not have time to look at it for at least several weeks. Needless to say I called the local Home Depot in a rage. The Home Depot lawn & garden department manager apologized and was kind enough to arrange for a loaner mower. Now, after four months, in December Home Depot picked up their loaner and two days later I got what is left of my new John Deere back. The machine had been left outside in the sun and weather all summer. The battery was dead, seat cracked and discolored, tires flat, water in the gas tank, deck, axles and frame rusty. The motor was disassembled in two boxes with a note on the work order stating that John Deere had declined to cover the repair under warranty. The reasons given were appeared to be low on oil and warranty period had expired. (When it broke there was oil all over the frame, mower deck and grass. After six months enough oil was still left in the crankcase to tell it was almost clear and not burnt. Piston, rings and cylinder walls all in good condition and the grass is still dead from where all the oil ran out.)

The John Deere dealer, Lawn Power and Equipment, Inc., said no one was warranting the repair but the mechanic said if I wanted it fixed fast the cost would be $1,271.60 ($227.40 less than the cost of a new one)

I have just spent the last few days visiting other John Deere dealers (Turf Master & Mower, Central Florida Power Equipment and Triple D Equipment) where I acted as a prospective buyer and was infuriated by the information I received. At this point in time I don’t know who to believe and what is fact or John Deere salesmanship but I was told that Home Depot is not the largest dealer in the country in fact I was told Home Depot is not a dealer at all just a sales outlet. That John Deere dealers do not consider the L series to be a true John Deere. I was told their tractors are all made in Wisconsin and the L series is made in a separate factory in Tennessee. That the L series was originally designed to be made exclusively for Home Depot using less expensive engines and chassis parts to keep cost down and Home Depots profits up. A salesperson at Central Florida Power Equipment said that he had a whole backroom full of bad engines off L series tractors that had to be replaced but he was quick to point out there is no such engine problems with a real John Deere that uses more bearings and less bushings.

In an attempt to verify his information I found that the engine in this model had been replaced with a new number 31G7070026 and a new short block number of 697761. Briggs & Stratton would only say that it the old number had a few compression issues but would not elaborate or send me any further information.

I feel as though I have been taken advantage of and my trust breached. Before now I have always felt safe and comfortable buying from Home Depot. Beside mortgage payments, food and gas I would say eighty percent of my dollars are spent at the Home Depot in Kissimmee or St. Cloud and in Davie Florida before moving here.

I am retired and have suffered through a very expensive summer of hurricane losses and Insurance claims and I am not in a position to champion another cause right now by filing an action or complaining to the state attorney general office and all the other state and local consumer agencies for help but I will if I need to.

At this time all I want is my mower replaced with a good one or my money back. I use this equipment almost daily for much more than just a lawnmower. It is how I get around my property. It is how I take out the trash. It is what I should be using to transport limbs and other hurricane debris to the burn spot. I have enclosed photocopies of my documentation and pictures for your review.

(Please note the machine was purchased on July 29, 2003 and picked up for repairs on July 13, 2004 warranty was denied November 30, 2004 three and a half months later. The John Deere dealer could not provide any written proof that anyone except a mechanic (that no longer works there) and would rather make $1,271.60 from me instead of a few dollars from warranty physically looked at the problem.)

I expect positive response from someone no later than by Friday January 21, 2005.

Sincerely,



Mark Ford


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## bugman (Aug 12, 2004)

:thumbsup: excellent letter.


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## starfire383 (Dec 27, 2004)

Hi there, I too think it's a good letter, but if you are asking for some constructive criticism, here we go! I am a manufacturing engineer that regularly writes documents related to equipment failures. Mostly to plead for money from the boss. Similar circumstances in many aspects. Plus I just like fighting the system. 

I would remove the word rage, and replace with something more flattering. Hotheads rarely have legit reasons for their anger, better to be perceived as upset but still logical. Upset is a good generic term.
I would entirely strike the section where you mention your financial hardships and personal info and hurricane. It is MUCH better to be perceived as someone who could afford a lawyer. Even if they wronged you, if you appear powerless, you're toast. 
Your points about the L series plant and dealership reputation are very valid, but I do not believe they are specifically relevant to your warranty denial, and make you sound whiny. (sorry) You have every right to whine, just don't include it in a quasi-legal document.
The point about the replacement engine number is VERY good to include, same with mentioning you're researching the failure. It shows intelligence and perseverence. That's double bad for them.
I see no mention of the fact that briggs denied due to the dealer's delay. And conflicting stories. (oil versus submittal date) That is an important fact to include. It highlights how callously the dealer treated you, and paints you in a sympathetic light.
COMPLETELY strike your paragraph about useage. You bought a residental unit, you sound like you're near-commercial. You may give them another reason to deny the warranty, just from your phrasing.
Include any sales slip numbers, warranty numbers, etc, in the text. Make it easy for the next person holding the letter to do some research before they contact you. The attached documents may get lost
Your "positive response" sentence is necessary, in that it pushes urgency. But it turns me off as a reader, because it slightly insults me. The reader may have seen it your way right up to then. Perhaps something along the lines of "I request that you contact me as soon as possible, so that we may resolve this matter quickly and honestly"

Now that I've torn you down, I really like that you are complimentary to the Depot after the rage incident. Niceness helps, as do compliments about the product before failure. Good comments that indicate you are an honor bound person. Also nicely sequenced, leads the reader thru logically.
I would deliver multiple copies. First one in person to the manager, including an offer for a discussion at his desk. "perhaps you and I could call the warranty manager right now and resolve this?". Give them the opportunity to do the right thing, if not, immediately ask for direct contact information for their superior. Typically they're required by company policy to give you that info. Might even be posted. Then I would send REGISTERED mail copies to Depot, Deere, and Briggs. Often, for a $20 fee, a lawyer will copy your letter onto their letterhead, sign it, and make it look like you're one step from court.

Whew, I feel like an english teacher. Some of that was offered as moral support too. Please don't take my comments personally, I'm only trying to help. They really scr*wed you.
Todd


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## starfire383 (Dec 27, 2004)

I almost forgot. I think your local better businees bureau will put your letter on their letterhead. Probably for free. Given the effort thus far, might be an hour well spent.


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## scrench (Dec 8, 2004)

star fire hit right on the money !!!!! briggs rep said he could not really say anything without "seeing the engine " but if were @ my shop i could almost guarantee ya it would have been shortblocked!!!!! as long as it was clear to me it had not been ran with no oil in it


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## THECANOPYGUY (Dec 26, 2004)

Todd, I know I am mad and it gets worse the more I find out. Your comments and suggestions were exactly what I am looking for. I want the letter to be as good as it can possibly be before sending it out.
THANKS


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## starfire383 (Dec 27, 2004)

Mark, I don't mean to hijack your thread, but there's more support. I was a Deere college intern. Our group designed the first rubber track conversions for the 8000 series tractors. (lucky break) Not sure if the lawn and garden design group is the same but.... We had customer letters posted for us to read. Not every letter, but a few handpicked in every dept. They had common themes. You could tell they were angry, but still had the ability to step back and logically talk about it. (that's the customer who ruins your rep) They were longtime owners, and sounded like future business. They could still compliment and appreciate the overall product while still hating one single component. Most were unreasonably pricey (such as an engine totalling a tractor). So even if these letters go unanswered, sleep better knowing that you may have made a difference.

Please remember the people you're dealing with now are not personally responsible for the shady dealer, or defective engine. He or she is probably a decent person. The world's too angry already.


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## THECANOPYGUY (Dec 26, 2004)

Just a quick update.

I revised the letter several times and delivered it in person to the manager of Home Depot.

His reaction you ask???






It’s in the barn. Delivered late this afternoon. A new 2005 L111. I don’t know that much about all the different models but I was told it is the next generation L110. 20 Hp Briggs with an oil filter, automatic with cruse control. At first glance everything else looks pretty much like the L100. It was dark when it got here so all I did was put some gas in it, CHECKED THE OIL and put it in the barn for the night. Tomorrow I will get the model number off the engine so you guys can tell me what it is. For tonight all I can think about is this morning it looked old and broken and now it looks new and it runs.

I just want to take a minute thank all of you for your help. A few days ago I was one mad asshole and today I am one happy camper.


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## bugman (Aug 12, 2004)

dude thats great, just hope this one doesn't do the same :lol: just kidding nono good going though. oh and one thing i'd like to tell you always check your oil and use fuel stabilizer and change the oil filter every season and the oil if used quite a bit. always stand your ground when it comes to crap like that. oh and next time if something happens, TAKE PICTURES BEFORE YOU COMPLAIN, then they can't give you the run around. and keep copys. never use 15w-30 oil use 10w-30 for the summer. and 10w-30 multi-viscosity in the winter or cold seasons.


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## roperdude91 (Nov 10, 2004)

rotella 15w40 works good


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## scrench (Dec 8, 2004)

THECANOPYGUY said:


> Just a quick update.
> 
> I revised the letter several times and delivered it in person to the manager of Home Depot.
> 
> ...


 thats cool got what you wanted i'm glad it had a happy ending 
with that said , i dont want to step on any toes but when people buy mowers from a place that dont service them like [email protected] world and other stores that take them out of a box and dont care who buys the mower or if the mower lasts as long as the cardboard it came out of , i have seen alot of problems with mowers and saws and trimmers that were purchased from stores that dont service them ,they dont grease them they dont set the rpm's they dont even check the blades to see if they are tight , have had push mowers come to my shop that warranty would not cover that had bent crankshafts from the blades being loose , not saying that the pr oducts they sell is junk not saying the things they sell is the best , in fact i dont know of a mower that is good they all have problems some more than others , then you have the problem like the one that started this thread , some shops just dont like to work on things that are not bought from them, might be the same thing they sell but wont work on it because they dont like the fact they lost a sale , i'm not that way but most are ,same with saws they dont even start them to see if they will run or oil , we get what we pay for so i would have to say buy from someone that services what they sell , and keep the small engine shops in buisness !!!! or when you buy something @ wallie or other make sure there is a good dealer close !! just my 2 cents not sure but warranty might cover a service out on something that is purchased @ a store might be a good question to ask ,,,!!!


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## THECANOPYGUY (Dec 26, 2004)

Well here is the scoop.

INTEC 20 HP TWIN V OHV
Model number 406577
Type 0139 E1
Code 040816 YG 48562
Bar Code on a sticker says:
BG20319
GLX111A010606

I would have had the information sooner but like a kid with a new toy I had to get that bad boy dirty. Cut grass for about 15 min just to test it out. I don’t know where you guys live but one of the perks of living in central Florida is on January 12, 2005 at 11:45 AM it is currently partly cloudy 78 degrees humidity 53% winds out of the south at 13 MPH


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## scrench (Dec 8, 2004)

thats a 4004 engine,, your other one was a 1991 ..Stratton 17HP 31F7070112 Type E1 Code:" 9177A "


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## THECANOPYGUY (Dec 26, 2004)

Just a couple of thing that will probably end this thread.

1. No one commented about the new engine is it a good or bad one? Intec 20 HP twin V OHV Model 406577 Type 0139 E1 Code 040816 YG 48562.

2. I got a follow up e-mail from the guy from John Deere. He said my ( OUR ) letter was circulating around John Deere and would probably bring about some good changes.

3. Just for the record. I feel very lucky to find some compassionate Home Depot managers and a nice guy from John Deere that read a detailed fully documented letter but that doesn’t change the facts that in six months no one wanted anything to do with. Home Depot did not send anyone over to the dealer to see what was going on. John Deere did not send a Rep to physically look at the problem. As for Briggs & Stratton I don’t know they were ever even notified so I can’t comment about them. I think a good manager not Home Depot, John Deere or Briggs & Stratton solved my problem.

I took your advice and sent a letter to Home Depot thanking each of the managers that helped me and praising their actions. I also forwarded both to the guy from John Deere.

If he is still monitoring this forum I would ask him to e-mail the follow up letter to some of the pertinent Home Depot people in Atlanta so the managers in Kissimmee get the acknowledgement they deserve.


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## bugman (Aug 12, 2004)

that briggs intek is a good engine, very good. its a new engine for the l series i beleive but yes its a good engine.


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## scrench (Dec 8, 2004)

the only thing i really seen with that engine is the camshaft gear did not look like it rode far enough on the crank gear i think thats why they make a little low rpm whine listen for it its there but other than that i havent seen enough of them to give an honest opinion they are all good from briggs ,i'm pretty sure that engine has plasma coated rings , i also think the one with the yellow oil filter has to be replaced with the yellow one but not too sure im here to learn also


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## 1kelley1 (May 19, 2021)

THECANOPYGUY said:


> *Briggs-John Deere Dilemma*
> 
> Briggs-John Deere Dilemma
> 
> ...


i just stumbled onto your letter. I've been dealing with JD dealers almost all my life. Farming, custom harvesting, and their riding mowers, etc. They are VERY proprietary. it's like pulling teeth to get a dealer to honor the warranty on a machine purchased elsewhere. And even more so when dealing with a chain like Home Depot. However, they will usually bend over backwards for a loyal customer. i stick with JD for parts availability, service help, and salesmen who usually know what they're talking about, and want to keep your business.


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