# Thinning acrylics... Stumped.



## linksinachain

Hi folks, Links the lurker here... :thumbsup:

I find myself confused when it comes to thinning acrylics for airbrushing. I invested in a "Testors Mighty Mini" airbrush kit. I know it's kinda rinky-dink, but it is a learning-kit in my mind.

I am hearing conflicting stories on how to thin acrylic paint. Thanks to some Googling (which is probably the source of my confusion), I have heard that acrylics are thinned with water, rubbing alcohol, windshield washer fluid, isopropyl alcohol, or airbrush cleaner.

Unfortunately I am without a hobby shop in my area, so there is no one local to pester!

I sprayed some white into the gear wells of the CF-18 I am working on, and while it DID spray, it took a BUNCH of coats to cover the light gray plastic. Is this normal for white? It took a 1/3 water to 2/3 paint ratio to spray cleanly.

However, now that I am getting into painting the body I would like to cover my bases.

Humbly request suggestions so I can start experimenting. On hand I have water, rubbing alcohol and paint thinner.

Merci!
Links


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## deadmanincfan

In the past I've used a mixture of water and window cleaner (even a generic brand works) to thin acrylics for airbrushing. Your 2/3 paint to 1/3 thinning medium sounds about right.


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## linksinachain

Ahh yes, Windex... I knew there was another option.

This gets confusing! Now I am reading on Aircraft Resource Center that Future can be used to thin acrylics...

Whew!!!

Thanks for the input,
Links


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## deadmanincfan

Future, huh? Hmm...


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## Jafo

I think you better read that good as future is gloss and depending on which brand acrylics might not be compatible.


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## linksinachain

Agreed, Jafo - spent some time with it last night.

Jeesh, don't people believe in paragraphs anymore??? 

Links


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## Roguepink

Alcohol as a thinner seems to produce a very fast drying paint when airbrushed. I use this when I'm in a hurry or just want to work fast. The downside is that I find that I have to clean out the airbrush frequently. Water is a good thinner, and mixing with a few drops of Windex will help cure any surface tension (i.e. beading) problems. It will dry slower, but will also not clog your airbrush as fast.

My usual mixture is 2:1 (paint:thinner) for flat colors, 1:1 for gloss. Ask me if I ever measure my mixtures, go on, BECAUSE I DON'T. I go for the visual consistency of skim milk.


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## KUROK

You might be thinning it too much.
Acrylics may only need no more than 10% thinner.
Yes, it should have the consistency of milk!


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## MightyMax

No one mentioned this. White is notoriously bad for coverage especially gloss white.

BTW Future does work as I have seen it done with fantastic results. Of course you have to spray a clear flat when all is said and done unless you want a gloss finish. 

Be careful with alcohol. Some brands do not like it and it curdles the paint!

Max Bryant


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## djnick66

Some Acrylics paint better than others. Personally I think the Testors Acryl stuff is garbage. It doesnt thin well, spray well, cover well...

Tamiya Acrylics spray nicely when properly thinned. I used Rubbing/Isopropyl Alcohol to thin them for years. I thin up to 50/50, but oftenn usually 25% thinner to 75% paint. Now I thin them with Laquer Thinner. Yes Laquer Thinner... works like a charm. You can thin most Acrylic hobby paints with it. Plus it will clean up the dried paint very qickly.

Tamiya Flat White is a very good covering white. If you want it glossy, use a clear coat on top.


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## falcondesigns

Testors Acryl are great,when you use the proper thinner,theirs.alexander


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## Jafo

i used laquer thinner for tamiya paints until recently. 92% alochol works just as good and costs MUCH less, with less stink!


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## Prince of Styrene II

linksinachain said:


> I am hearing conflicting stories on how to thin acrylic paint. I have heard that acrylics are thinned with ...windshield washer ...


This is what I have used since I switched to acrylics a couple years ago. It's worked very well for me & just like you've heard, thin down the mix to the consistancy of milk. I usually have to do 2 coats to get a good coverage, 3 if the plastic/paint contrast is high (painting black plastic with a light grey). Have you considered laying down a primer coat? That has helped me get the paint to bite & get an good coat.

The thing is that with water, it will break up the molecular bond of the paint. Windshield washer fluid has the same structure, so it actually combines & "streches" the paint.

Plus, you can't beat spending $1 for a gallon that might last you a year! 



djnick66 said:


> Some Acrylics paint better than others. Personally I think the Testors Acryl stuff is garbage.


I use only the craft paints that you find at stores like Michael's. They're cheap ($.75 for 4 oz) & they work just fine. Here's some examples of my builds with acrylic paints:
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff5/Prince_of_Styrene_II/Kit Fisto/beauty1.jpg
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff5/Prince_of_Styrene_II/R2 Van at the Fest/beauty1_small.jpg
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff5/Prince_of_Styrene_II/Romulan D-7/beauty3.jpg
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff5/Prince_of_Styrene_II/USS Ratatosk/StarboardFlyby.jpg


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## hackercat13

In my experience, there are as many ways to thin acrylics as there are paints! What you thin with depends to a big degree on what brand of paint you use. I usually spray Tamiya, and yeah, good 'ol Isopropyl alcohol works. I have found that the 90% is a bit more consistant, because the 70% is 30% mystery filler, and it can vary from brand to brand. Pennies different at any local drug store for 90%

I sometimes shoot vallejo acrylics, specifically their game color line (same colors as Games Workshop), and they HATE alcohol! Makes a big frakin' mess! These I thin with Tamiya's thinner, 2:1 paint to thinner, but have had success with golden's airbrush medium as a thinner in a pinch.

Future will thin most acrylics, and you need very little, 3 or 4:1 paint to future. It DOES make your paint glossy, but self-levels, and is ready for decals immediately! (bonus!) Plus I matt seal everything last anyway.

One more tidbit, if you use alcohol, add 1 drop of retarder to the mix after you thin. This helps with tip dry, especially if it is hot! I try to avoid thinning with windex. Although it works like a charm, without excellent ventilation and a respirator, I can't stand the smell, and have a feeling that amonia vapor is bad!

Not trying to promote other webpages, but http://cs.finescale.com/forums/ShowForum.aspx?ForumID=18&PageIndex=1
That link to the airbrush specific forums at finescalemodeler is full of more usefull information than any 1 human could need!

Hope this helps!
Good Luck!
Chris


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## linksinachain

This has turned out to be a FANTASTIC thread... Thanks so much for all the input, folks!

Keep 'em coming! 

Cheers,
Links


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## hackercat13

linksinachain said:


> This has turned out to be a FANTASTIC thread... Thanks so much for all the input, folks!
> Keep 'em coming!


Weellll.....since you asked...

Next step is investing in a quality aribrush and compressor. Compressors are fairly east, any decent 1/2 to 2 gallon size from a home improvement store will do. Mine is a 2 gallon tank, .2cfm, cost under $100.00 just make sure to get a regulator so you can accurately control output pressure, and a moisture trap.

As for airbrushes, there are a jillion available. I love my Badgers, and I have 3 of them. Since I mainly shoot acrylics (thicker, clumpy sometimes) as opposed to lacquer based paints, I don't need or want something "artist quality." As such, a simple single action Badger 200 does most of my painting on plastic models, dioramas, terrain boards, etc. I have a double action Badger 100 I use for the occasional fine detail work, but easily use my cheaper brush 75% of the time or more.

Avoid knock-off brands. You may get a Iwata clone on Evilbay for $30.00, but will go through hell finding replacement parts, and good luck shipping it back to freakin' Taiwan for repair work!

Whew! I am out of breath now! Gotta run. Ask more questions, and read a ton. Everyone will have an opinion, a favorite, and they are all right, at least for them. 
Good luck!
Chris


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## Drac Blau

I have used Future with good results. My mixture of choice is 1/3 paint, 1/3 Windex, and 1/3 Future. It sounds like a really thin mixture (which it is) but I set my compressor to 15 psi or less and it sprays beautifully. The thin mixture means you have to spray a few more coats, but all the detail is preserved and you get a durable finish when cured.

DB


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## Jodet

Drac Blau said:


> I have used Future with good results. My mixture of choice is 1/3 paint, 1/3 Windex, and 1/3 Future. It sounds like a really thin mixture (which it is) but I set my compressor to 15 psi or less and it sprays beautifully. The thin mixture means you have to spray a few more coats, but all the detail is preserved and you get a durable finish when cured.
> 
> DB


That sounds like an interesting mixture for thinner. What kind of paint are you using? Testors? I've had terrible problems with Tamiya - it drys so fast and hits the work with a rough texture. I don't think it's the paint, I think it's my technique.


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## hackercat13

Jodet said:


> I've had terrible problems with Tamiya - it drys so fast and hits the work with a rough texture. I don't think it's the paint, I think it's my technique.


That sounds like a drying issue in my opinion. If you're using alcohol to thin Tamiya paints, it dries very quickly, especially if you approach 1:1, or when shot at high PSI. I usually shoot Tamiya at 15-20 psi thinned 3:1 or 3:2 paint to thinner. If it is hot and dry where you paint, the stuff can actually partially dry between the airbrush and the model! Add 1 drop of retarder to your mix, this helps alot. Another option is to mix up a batch of 75% alcohol to 25% future, then thin with this as normal. The Future will add a glossy sheen to the paint, but it doesn't "orange peel", and self-levels very nicely.

Last note, I started using Tamiya's thinner recently (always thought that brand name thinner was a waste of money), and an VERY impressed with the results! It has a bit of retarder already added, and spraying has been very nice. It works well for other acrylics like Vallejo and createx as well.
Good Luck!
Chris


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## Jodet

hackercat13 said:


> Another option is to mix up a batch of 75% alcohol to 25% future, then thin with this as normal. The Future will add a glossy sheen to the paint, but it doesn't "orange peel", and self-levels very nicely.
> 
> Last note, I started using Tamiya's thinner recently (always thought that brand name thinner was a waste of money), and an VERY impressed with the results! It has a bit of retarder already added, and spraying has been very nice. It works well for other acrylics like Vallejo and createx as well.
> Good Luck!
> Chris


That sounds like a great tip, thanks. I'll try a 3/1 or 3/2 mix of tamiya paint and the 75% alcohol / 25% future mix sprayed at 15-20 psi. I may try the tamiya thinner, since you recommend it. I always thought 'brand name thinners' were a licencse to print money. But if it works....

Although the thinner/future combo - if it sets up glossy enough for decaling without another coat of 'clear gloss' I'd think that was great. I hate doing clear coats. 

And here's a real newbie question for you - when you're using this thinner, this mix, this psi - how far from the work is the tip of your airbrush? One inch? Two? Four? I'm in Arizona where it's really dry and think I'll have to stay pretty close to the work to avoid 'drying in the air' syndrome.


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## hackercat13

Jodet said:


> I may try the tamiya thinner, since you recommend it. I always thought 'brand name thinners' were a licencse to print money. But if it works....
> 
> Although the thinner/future combo - if it sets up glossy enough for decaling without another coat of 'clear gloss' I'd think that was great. I hate doing clear coats.
> 
> And here's a real newbie question for you - when you're using this thinner, this mix, this psi - how far from the work is the tip of your airbrush? One inch? Two? Four? I'm in Arizona where it's really dry and think I'll have to stay pretty close to the work to avoid 'drying in the air' syndrome.


Yeah, I am a believer in Tamiya's thinner, and it's less likely to dry out than alcohol. If you want a glossy coat ready for decaling, try a higher ratio of future, play with it a few times until you find the ratio best for you!

Distance, mix, and PSI really will vary from brush to brush, and to some degree, your compressor. Most regulators are a good approximate pressure, but not exact. I use primarily a Badger 200 single action aribrush with a medium nozel and head, so if I am shooting thin lines (10-15 psi), I am very close, inch or two from the model. When I am doing an overall coat, maybe 6 inches away at 20 psi, but with my friend's Iwata, it is a totally different distance curve. 

Arizona 'eh? I spent some time there when I was in High School, beautiful, but yeah, damn dry! I have the reverse problem here in Washington State! Moisture trap on compressor, heated garage, and good ventilation!

Good luck, and keep asking questions!:wave:
Chris


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## Guy Schlicter

I read on this thread Testor Acyrl garbage.I brush it alot and its one of the best paints I ever used.Cleans up quickly and self levels very well I can only imagine how well it airbrushes with the right thinner.Guy.


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## irishtrek

Just came upon this thread and after glancing through it I saw no mention of what type of acrilic paints you are using. Are they ones you got from a craft store or an out of town hobby shop? The answer may be the key to your confusion as to thinning these paints.


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## modelgeek

Acrylic paint is just that. The base ingredient is Acrylic .. It is used in model paint , house paint, fomerly known as or should I say commonly known as Latex Paint there is no latex in latex paint if we are talking in terms of house paints .. Future is acrylic and it can be used to thin acrylic based paints.. I have used it with sucess to thin Acrylic based house paints that have set around and have thickened a bit ,that and water... So used future to thin acrylics it works.. Since acrylics are waterbased using alcohol to thin will also cause it to dry faster,mix that with air from your air brush and yes it is nearly dry when it hits your project..Alcohol absorbs water .. Try thinning with Future if you have it,and water. I have used water to thin acrylic paint, it works.. For what it is worth.. Jeff


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## irishtrek

From the sound of it I get the impression that you have never used acrylic paints from a craft store modelgeek, beleive me whe I say there IS A DIFFERENCE between craft store paints and MM or Tamya acrylic paints and that is those you find in a craft store are always thicker and in more need of thining than those you find in a hobby shop. Just in case you didn,t know which is the impression I got from your last post on this thread.


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## modelgeek

irishtrek said:


> From the sound of it I get the impression that you have never used acrylic paints from a craft store modelgeek, beleive me whe I say there IS A DIFFERENCE between craft store paints and MM or Tamya acrylic paints and that is those you find in a craft store are always thicker and in more need of thining than those you find in a hobby shop. Just in case you didn,t know which is the impression I got from your last post on this thread.


My point was in case I didn't make it was Acrylic based paint is just that. I have used those craft store acrylics. So I do know. I use them more then the MM or tamya they are cheaper for one and do a good job!! I buy them on the clearnace rack all they time... All I am saying is they can be thinned with future or water or windex or water and liquid soap ( the soap breaks the suface tention of the water so you don't get little tiny drops) I have even thinned acrylic house paint to do models with..So do your own experimenting and find out what works,, It's just paint if you mess it up take it off and do it over.. I sell paint for a living everything from hobby paints to house paint and everything in between, even did a stint selling and mixing automotive paint. So I am familiar with with laquers,enamels,acrylics, and alkyd oils ,epoxies , polimide waterbornes, poly acrylics, waterborne oil modifieds and the rest.. For what its worth..Thanks for letting me share my 2 cents ... Jeff


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## irishtrek

I've had to clean up models with acrylic paints from MM as well as craft store paints and the later is much easier to clean off a model.


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## jackshield

thanks for the input, i was hoping a paint guy would chime in.
from what i have read, windox is the best option for keeping airbrush from clogging??
could straight or dilluted amonia be used instead?
i had only tried water, as of yet, clogged 3 of 4 airbrushes, the only one that sprayed it well was the cheapo depot brush.
enamels spray fine from all, (all i have used is testors enamels with testors thinnner), which leads me to next question:
testors brand "universal thinner" sells in an 8 oz can for $8.47 at hooby looby, that's 135.52 a gallon!
whats the difference between the testors product and the $10/gallon of "universal thinner" at wally world?


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## modelgeek

You may think I am nuts but I run laquer thinner thru my Passche VL to clean it out when I'm done spraying and then I break it down and clean it again, I also use laquer thinner to clean my brushes.I don't see amonia being a problem to run thru after you spray and then run water thru to rinse it .. Amonia can discolor the metal parts on the airbrush but I don't think it will hurt it.. I have also had a 5 gallon bucket of clean water at the spray booth and have stuck the airbrush in it,totaly submerged and run it clean.especially if your going to switch colors alot. A T-shirt painter showed me that...Jeff


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## razorwyre1

im not a polymer chemist, nor do i play one on tv.
there seem to be basically 4 types of acrylic paint, each with its own chemistry: artists acrylics, craft/house paint type acrylics, acrylic enamels, and acrylic lacquers. the first 3 are "water based", the lacquer is solvent based.
the artists acrylics (this includes airbrush acrylics like createx) and the craft acrylics are very similar. they can be thinned with water, window cleaner, airbrush mediums, and future. the craft paints are really acrylic latex housepaint. (i used to work for a company that packaged their own brand of craft acrylic paint. they ordered drums of acrylic house paint from a local manufacturer, dispensed it into 2 oz. bottles and labeled it.) however some brands of craft paint have a higher pva content than others (you can tell by the smell... if it smells like elmer's white glue, its got a lot of pva.)
acrylic enamels have a different chemistry than the craft and artist acrylics. these are the paints like tamiya, and can be thinned with water or alcohol. they cannot be thinned with the artists acrylic airbrush mediums. i havent tried thinning them with future. (the testors model master seems to be something of a hybrid between the two, closer to the artists and craft type than the tamiya.)
acrylic lacquers are used for painting automobiles etc. are solvent based, and are completely different than the others.
you can also use flow release on the artists and craft acrylics to help using them with an airbrush. it doenst thin them, but it makes them more slickery. 
the window cleaner or alcohol work well for cleaning your airbrush between colors, but i always use water rinsing brush cleaner to clean it out at the end of the day. its nasty but it'll clean anything off of the airbrushed metal parts.


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## modelgeek

Speaking of hybrid acrylics I sell Ben Moore paint.And they have a new line of paint that is a hybrid waterborne acrylic and you can only tint it with their Acrylic based colorants, this paint is self priming and covers extremely well .I am going to call the company just to see if I can get any ideas on how thin it can be made to shoot thru an airbrush.. Just because I want to know if it can be done..Because when it cures it is extremely tough paint..Heck I may find some use for it in my model hobby...Jeff


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## rls

Okay, I'm going to ask a dumb question. I haven't done any models in over 25 years and just getting back into it. I've got a testors aztek airbrush. But, here's my question. On the first page and some of the second you talk about adding a "retarder"...What is that? I'd love some more education on this please!!


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## modelgeek

Retarder is a clear acrylic gel medium that when added to acyrlic paint or water based paints is slows down the drying time or increaces the working time of the paint depending on what you are doing..Retarder can help painters blend paints easier or if enough is added it can be used as a glaze..It can Makes paint more transparent It is commonly know as Gel medium.. Jeff


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## rls

Thanks modelgeek:thumbsup:


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## Prince of Styrene II

rls said:


> Okay, I'm going to ask a dumb question. I haven't done any models in over 25 years and just getting back into it. I've got a testors aztek airbrush.


*1st-* There is _never_ a dumb question here! Dumb comments & general goofyness, but never a dumb question! :hat:

*2nd-* Welcome back to the hobby after so long! A lot has changed in terms of knowledge of building, so don't be afraid to troll the boards & ask some questions! Hankster (who runs HobbyTalk) is a great administrator & makes the boards very user friendly.

*3rd-* I've got two of those airbrushes!! 


So, what do you commonly build?


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## rls

Thanks Prince. Mostly I like military models, esp WWII and the German military machines. I'm wanting to start getting into some dioramas also, so if you or anyone have any beginners advice, I'd really appreciate it. I also posted in the diorama section asking for advice and more particulars on what I'm wanting to do.


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## Prince of Styrene II

Well, the dio forum is a good place to start. I'm not very proficent at dios, though I do make an attempt or two at them. I'm working on one right now for WonderFest. I have another on the display shelves, but I have yet to get a good picture of it loaded into my Photobucket.

As far as advice, just ask when you run into a problem or think there might be a better way to do something or a better material to use. Here's a couple bits that I use with supplies:

X-Actos: You can never go wrong having a couple sharp #11s around. I also like to use the #22 blade for the curve.

Glue: I primarily use Ambroid ProWeld. It's a clear liquid you can find in a 5oz (or so) glass bottle in your LHS. What this does is create a chemical reaction that literally melts the two parts together! Dryfit the parts & use the supplied brush to use capiliary action to apply it.

Putty: Forget the Squardons & Testor puttys. Go to Wal-Mart & grab some red Bondo putty. It's a larg-ish tube that has a fine grit & sands just as well or better than the "hobby putties".

Good luck!


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