# Advice needed on a painting effect. (Space Shuttle)



## F1Racer

Hi guys,

Am painting a full stack 1/144 Space Shuttle atm.
My 2 Monogram 1/72 full stack Shuttles are still waiting to be done  I thought I`d practice on the little one first.

So... I'm about to paint the underbelly of the Orbiter. Going by photos, I think satin black is the best option.
But the belly has, because of previous Earth re-entries, a light grey coating on it which kinda whisps off at the edges.. See photo....

http://wallpaperstock.net/space-shuttle_wallpapers_25111_2560x1600_1.html

What I want to know is how best to achieve this affect on my Orbiter.

I've thought of adding a grey to the black mixture but that will just produce a different shade.
Maybe getting some light matt grey and dabbing it on with a tissue and flicking it off at the edges ? I really dunno and am totaly unpracticed with effects like this. 

But I've seen what some of you guys are capable of so I know I'm in the right place for an answer 

Cheers.


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## hal9001

The wall paper picture didn't come up (do you have another?) when I clicked on it so I'm assumeing you're talking about the charing of the tiles? If this is the case try painting it black first then 'dusting' it with gray. Since the charing was uneven, make it darker in some areas than others.

For those that didn't get tile decals when they were available I've seen them use screen as a mask to replicate the tiles to good effect. Also, as you've no doubt seen, some newer darker (black) tiles are scattered about too.

Hope this helps.

hal9001-


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## spawndude

Use Google to search for pics of the shuttle that was sent to a NYC museum.

I read an article on this earlier this week.

They mentioned the exterior was not "cleaned up" so that people could see one in the condition its in as it returned from a mission.

The pics might give you some ideas.


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## Sgthawker

spawndude said:


> Use Google to search for pics of the shuttle that was sent to a NYC museum.
> 
> I read an article on this earlier this week.
> 
> They mentioned the exterior was not "cleaned up" so that people could see one in the condition its in as it returned from a mission.
> 
> The pics might give you some ideas.


Unfortunately the Enterprise never went into space, it was used for atmospheric testing only. It won't show more of what he is looking for, it doesn't have engines or a heat shield. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Shuttle_Enterprise

@F1 Dry brushing shades of grey on black or powdering are both viable options. Just experiment on your test model, perhaps one half one way and the other half the other way and see which you prefer. 

By the way, good find on that photo, it really shows detail of the underside of the shuttle!


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## Robert Hargrave

F1Racer said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Am painting a full stack 1/144 Space Shuttle atm.
> My 2 Monogram 1/72 full stack Shuttles are still waiting to be done  I thought I`d practice on the little one first.
> 
> So... I'm about to paint the underbelly of the Orbiter. Going by photos, I think satin black is the best option.
> But the belly has, because of previous Earth re-entries, a light grey coating on it which kinda whisps off at the edges.. See photo....
> 
> .


I puchased a set of tile decals from e-bay for my 1/72 scale shuttle and the seller uses Tamiya Color TS-4 German Gray for the base cote to go under the tiles, I could not find that brand of paint in local stores so I picked up the closest color in Testor paints.


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## rkoenn

I worked on the shuttle for the entire program and retired last year when it did. We had the tile people in our group. When the tiles were first glued on the orbiter they were a kind of semi-gloss black. Then as the orbiter flew during reentry the plasma flow along the tiles would make them look streaked in an aerodynamic pattern from front to back. The streaking pattern would be kind of a lighter gray starting along the leading edge of the tile, basically dissipate along its length, and sometimes build up a little on the trailing edge. I've often thought about how to paint something like that but it would be hugely tedious and difficult. I have two sets of 1/144 tile decals I bought years ago and will use those on mine when I finally build it. I just got an Airfix 1/144 shuttle yesterday and also have one of those big Monograms. I contacted a guy in England who sells tile patterns in 1/72, 1/144, and 1/200. I'd like to see yours when you get it done.


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## F1Racer

@hal9001 Here is another link to the photo http://racingrenders.com/shuttle.jpg

Your description of the underbelly is spot on. How do I achieve this 'dusting' effect. Do I need special paint and/or brushes for that ? I have Humbrol and Revell enamels here at the moment. Don't think you can dust that on 


@spawndude, Thanks. I have a lot of reference pics already and a few books too including this latest one which is great for the pics... http://www.amazon.co.uk/Space-Shuttle-Celebrating-Thirty-Years/dp/0760339414/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1337269604&sr=1-1

I really gotta visit NYC someday if only to see that thing in real life. Wow!


@Sgthawker Yeah, I have the photo as my desktop too  I will have to find out about this technique of dry brushing / dusting / powdering. It does sound like it will have the desired effect. Its a new term for me though as I`ve always, up to now, done it the traditional way of building and painting with the enamel paints. I'm guessing this might be a bit more involved.


@RobertH, I have those decals for my 2 Monogram 1/72 full stack Shuttles which are waiting patiently for my attention. I didn't get any 1/144 ones - at least I don't recall. Now I`ll have to check  


@rkoenn, OK now it's one thing when I get responses from modelers who can advise me on techniques to paint the Orbiters underbelly but quite another when I get one from a guy who not only worked on the Shuttle but with people who worked on the actual tiles !  I feel a bit humbled.
You said the streaking patterns were on the tiles. You mean each ? 
I don't think Im going to individually tackle it tile by tile  besides which this model (Revell) has a smooth bottom so there are no tile patterns on it.
Once I think I know the way to paint (or dust) the paint onto the Orbiter I will use that technique probably in the main engines and on the maneouvering thrusters where possible. 
I would gladly show you my attempt at that once it's done. Right now I have the white paint on the body and its looking quite dirty which was both unintentional and actually quite handy because I didn't want a clean looking Orbiter.


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## rkoenn

F1Racer, would you like the email address for the guy in the UK who sells the decals in all those scales? Let me know and I'll PM it to you it you want it.


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## Mark McGovern

EffOne,




I presume the tiles on your shuttle are outlined by raised or engraved lines, yes? If that's the case, I would treat them as one unit:
First I'd paint the entire area flat black. I know the tiles originally had a satin finish, but the wear and tear on them would flatten their appearance. Plus, 1/44 is a pretty small scale and a flat finish will provide a more accurate-looking 'scale'effect. Of course, I'd have painted the entire color scheme and applied all the decals before I weathered any other part of the shuttle.
I think gray colored artists chalks would give the best burn effect (be careful not to buy "oil pastels", which cannot be ground into powder; some chalks are also called pastels). I'd rub the appropriate color with an emery board over a paper towel until I felt I had enough gray powder to weather my shuttle. If I needed to alter the color, I'd follow the same procedure with warmer or cooler, lighter or darker colors, then blend the powders into my gray until I had just the right colors.
I'd apply the colored powder to the model with a fairly small, pointed brush. The powder would be placed where the burn effects should be greatest so that the thinning application of chalk could be streaked back along the lines of airflow. The thin brush would drag the last of the chalk along the edges of the wings, leaving streaks like those in your photo. Colored chalks could be used to weather the upper portions of the shuttle as well.
A light misting of a clear flat sealer like Testors Dullcote would set the chalk and seal it. Clear sealer can alter the appearance of artists chalks on a given surface, so I'd be perpared to apply more chalk if the scorching effect became too diminshed. Applying the sealer with an airbrush would give me the greatest control over how much and where I placed it.
Here's a photo of a shuttle touching down. As seen here, the shuttle looks close to 1/44 scale. Although you can see that it's weathered, the colors aren't as dramatic as they'd be if you were standing next to the real thing. That's what is meant by "scale effect"; the rule of thumb for weathering in any scale is, less is more.









If the underside of your shuttle is smooth and you're wanting to show all those little tiles, you'd be looking at a lot of work. That is, unless you get a set of the tile decals that Bob has reccomended. This help a little?


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## F1Racer

Great stuff guys.

@rkoenn, I did buy the 1/72 decals for my other 2 Monogram Shuttles and maybe it's the same guy. But yes please PM me the email and I`ll see if it's the same guy and also if I want to get them for a future Shuttle.

For this one though I think I want to paint the underside and learn how to weather it. 
Thank you.


@Mark Thanks, some great tips there. I will try and see if our Arts shop has those chalks in that colour and follow that method.
The Testors I will have to order because they don't have it here.

Unfortunately there are no tile markings on this model kit for the underneath tiles. Its smooth. I'm not too concerned with creating the tiled effect, that is going to be way too much work and I wouldn't know where to start


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## Mark McGovern

F1Racer said:


> ...I'm not too concerned with creating the tiled effect, that is going to be way too much work and I wouldn't know where to start


Looking at the photo I posted, the individual tiles aren't very apparent anyway. I think you've got the right idea, EffOne. You'll probably find a set of artist chalks, rather than one color. That's for the best, as you're bound to find uses for the other colors sooner or later.


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## hal9001

F1 Racer, the dusting effect I refered to is simply holding the airbrush back far enough you don't get an opeque coverage and it lets some of the black show through. No special paint. Of course not too far back or it will be grainy. You're just trying to change tonal values in a uneven way.

Like someone pointed out there is somewhat of a heat flow pattern to the lighter charing. Try testing on the belly of an old aircraft model to see what different effects you come up with. Practice, practice....and practice.

Pastels are a good choice, but, again, that takes practice too! There's no easy way to replicate tiles with dedicated decals I'm affraid. I've never tried it, but try the screen effect I mentioned to see what you get. Paint black first then 'dust' with the grey over the screen.

Good luck.

hal9001-


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## F1Racer

Thanks guys. I will consider these options and see which one I'm most comfortable with.
I havent used my airbrush yet so Im new with that too. 
Can I put the paint in neat or does it need to be thinned first ?


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## Mark McGovern

You'll definitely need to thin the paint unless it's formulated to be shot out of the bottle. Testors and others make metallic paints that don't need to be thinned, as are some acrylics. Otherwise, you'll need to thin the paint until it has about the consistency of milk. The safest thinner is whatever the manufacturer reccommends.

The paint/thinner ratio, P.S.I. to shoot with, etc. are things that you'll master only with experience. Proficiency with your airbrush, as hal so astutely observed, is a matter of practice. Don't be scared, just pull out that junky old model you have sitting around and start hosing it.

BTW, make sure you have a decent spray booth to pull overspray and flammable fumes (that even acrylics generate) out of your work area. And a good respirator will protect your lungs the way a paper dust mask can't.


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## Trek Ace

Something like this...


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## F1Racer

Well I think I'm going to try the artist chalk method first as that is not only the cheapest but one that I think I'm less likely to mess up on. I do have a very old (25yrs) landed Orbiter that I built 1/72 scale which to try it on first.

Then some point later I`ll start learning how to airbrush etc. I don't really want to start doing it on my Shuttle model.

Let's see how it turns out.

Great reference photo btw. I`ll work off that !


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## SteveR

Could you dust on the gray through a nylon stocking or similar mesh ... Semi-transparent, building up layers, while masking some tiny squares to leave them black ...?


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## rkoenn

Trek Ace said:


> Something like this...


The "black" squares are where a tile has been replaced recently on the orbiter due to damage or other problem. There were probably 50-100 tiles that needed replacing per flight. So you could randomly paint some of the individual tiles semi-gloss black too for realism.


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## mach7

Can't help on the painting technique, but can I suggest you make her dirty?

Here are some photo's I took just after Discovery arrived in Dulles.











I hope these help. Notice how dirty/used she is.


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## mach7

Compare her to Enterprise from Nov 2011





Both from Dulles, Notice how much cleaner/neater Enterprise is.

Again hope this helps


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## rkoenn

mach7 said:


> Can't help on the painting technique, but can I suggest you make her dirty?
> 
> Here are some photo's I took just after Discovery arrived in Dulles.
> 
> 
> 
> I hope these help. Notice how dirty/used she is.


If you note the trapezoidal group of very thick tiles at the bottom rear edge of the OMS pods there is an interesting story behind that. On STS-1, I was out at California for the landing back in '81, when we towed it back off the runway that area actually had a burn through of the composite skin and you could look through maybe a half foot square hole into the pod. I think I have a picture I took of it somewhere. On that first mission there was only the low temperature FRSI, a thermal felt like covering glued on in that area. What happened was that the hot plasma flowing up between the aft body and the elevon impinged on that corner of the pod and the heat damaged the composite skin and burned a hole through it. The wind tunnel and aerodynamic modeling had never shown that location would be subject to the hot plasma. Fortunately no serious damage was done and as a result that large area of thick tiles were installed there.


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## mach7

rkoenn said:


> If you note the trapezoidal group of very thick tiles at the bottom rear edge of the OMS pods there is an interesting story behind that. On STS-1, I was out at California for the landing back in '81, when we towed it back off the runway that area actually had a burn through of the composite skin and you could look through maybe a half foot square hole into the pod. I think I have a picture I took of it somewhere. On that first mission there was only the low temperature FRSI, a thermal felt like covering glued on in that area. What happened was that the hot plasma flowing up between the aft body and the elevon impinged on that corner of the pod and the heat damaged the composite skin and burned a hole through it. The wind tunnel and aerodynamic modeling had never shown that location would be subject to the hot plasma. Fortunately no serious damage was done and as a result that large area of thick tiles were installed there.


I wondered why that small patch of tiles. I did not see them on Enterprise.

I figured it must be something like that. 
Funny I've never heard that story. It just goes to show the value, and limitations of computer modeling.

I'm reminded of the Pancho Barnes quote,

"See, some peckerwood's gotta get the thing up. And some peckerwood's gotta land the son of a bitch. And that "peckerwood" is called a "pilot""


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## machgo

rkoenn said:


> If you note the trapezoidal group of very thick tiles at the bottom rear edge of the OMS pods there is an interesting story behind that. On STS-1, I was out at California for the landing back in '81, when we towed it back off the runway that area actually had a burn through of the composite skin and you could look through maybe a half foot square hole into the pod. I think I have a picture I took of it somewhere. On that first mission there was only the low temperature FRSI, a thermal felt like covering glued on in that area. What happened was that the hot plasma flowing up between the aft body and the elevon impinged on that corner of the pod and the heat damaged the composite skin and burned a hole through it. The wind tunnel and aerodynamic modeling had never shown that location would be subject to the hot plasma. Fortunately no serious damage was done and as a result that large area of thick tiles were installed there.


That is a very interesting story--something I probably would never have learned elsewhere, and certainly never "officially." What is the square of instrument-looking thingies right below the extra tiles? Always wondered about that, but never researched it....


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## rkoenn

machgo said:


> That is a very interesting story--something I probably would never have learned elsewhere, and certainly never "officially." What is the square of instrument-looking thingies right below the extra tiles? Always wondered about that, but never researched it....


That area is referred to as the T-0 umbilical. When the shuttle is stacked in the VAB a large arm that swivels in and out at its base is mated to the orbiter at that umbilical on both sides of the orbiter. One side is for LH2 and the other for LO2. The large, round, silver cover is a plate covering the fluid line for the propellant. The other smaller plugs and QDs are for gaseous and electrical connections. The ground carrier plate at the top of the TSM is mated to the orbiter and captured by a clevis feet at the bottom and then rotated towards the top of the orbiter where a pair of expanding clevises lock the carrier plate to the orbiter. At T-0 an explosive in the base of the TSM releases a large weight which first pulls the pins securing the upper expanding clevis releasing the carrier plate at the top. This large weight then pulls the TSM away from the orbiter as the carrier plate rotates off the bottom feet. The TSM retracts into the protective housing on the MLP and a door slides down to secure it from exhaust damage. The TSM itself is about 30 feet tall. I heard that even if for some reason the mechanism did not work the shuttle could pull free of the TSM without a catastrophe.


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## Trek Ace

Bob,

It's great to have a resident expert on the shuttle program who was actually involved in it. We're so glad you're here!


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## F1Racer

Brilliant pictures, thanks for those ! Yes I would like to make it dirty. The paint already has given that look (unintentionally), but I would like to take it a stage further and really make it look like it's been up before.

As for artists chalks in order to do the underbelly, would this be suitable ?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12-grey-t...Crafts_DrawingSupplies_EH&hash=item53ed0f155d

Just being the greys is perfect for the job if these are the right type.


Yeah it's great having rkoenn here. I'm a big Shuttle fan. Always have been. In the early 80's I did a school project based on the Shuttle and the history of manned spaceflight leading up to it. I was 15 at the time and now I'm 45 

We had a guy from NASA visit our school too and he gave us a talk on the Shuttle. Obviously I was hooked from start to finish. Afterwards I spoke to him and mentioned I would like to do this as a school project and he said that when he got back he would send me some stuff. I thought no more of it and 3 months later this huge envelople arrived crammed with stuff and a big NASA marked on the front. My teacher handed it to me and I was just buzzing. All original photos from launches and landings, datasheets, drawings, reading matter and a huge poster of the Shuttle showing its insides.
When I left UK I lost it all  But I did manage to find another one of those posters again on Ebay and I got it. I have a few books on the subject too.
I dunno what the fascination is, but something had me hooked on it since day one. It's just an incredible piece of machinery.
When I was younger Columbia was my favourite of the fleet. I think because I had such fond memories of its first launch and I STILL to this day have the news broadcast of the landing from the TV (recorded on cassette).
When Columbia was lost, of course it was just as harrowing as Challenger, but I dunno, it was like an old friend had gone. Weird really I suppose.

My only regret is never having seen a live Shuttle launch. If I could have survived the phobia and anxiety of a flight to the States, I would have given anything to see and hear it go up. 

Anyway, just thought I`d share that


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## rkoenn

I was out on the runway preparing for the landing the day of the Columbia accident and I remember that I asked a guy ahead of me in the convoy about whether it seemed it was getting kind of late for the sonic booms. He shrugged and then a couple of minutes later he waved at me that he had just gotten word of the accident. Everyone headed back to the control building and believe me, it was one of the most sorrowful things I have ever experienced even though we were a thousand miles away. A couple of days later I was traipsing across central Texas looking for and finding some shuttle parts. We were on the western side of the impact zone around Dallas where the lighter stuff fell to the ground first. There are many things I had been thinking about during the mission because we did know a huge piece of foam came off the tank and hit the orbiter but I believe management didn't want to know if there was a significant problem or not as they didn't really have what they considered a feasible method to safely return the orbiter. I can also remember being outside the VAB on the cold morning of the Challenger accident which was somewhat odd as I was at the time stationed at Vandenberg for shuttle work there and happened to be back on one of my two or three visits to KSC while in California. But ultimately the successes far surpassed the accidents but with a vehicle like the shuttle the accidents ended up being massive and deadly rather than minor without much in the way of repercussions.


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## F1Racer

Thanks for sharing that man. Sad times indeed. I am glad they pushed on with the programme though.


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## charonjr

I remember NASA has the tile patterns for the different orbiters on their site. Each pattern was different.


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## spawndude

I get a sick feeling when I realize these spacecraft are in museums rather than on a mission. Even more disgusting is knowing there really isnt anything be prepared to take their place.


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## spawndude

F1Racer said:


> Yeah it's great having rkoenn here. I'm a big Shuttle fan. Always have been. In the early 80's I did a school project based on the Shuttle and the history of manned spaceflight leading up to it. I was 15 at the time and now I'm 45
> 
> We had a guy from NASA visit our school too and he gave us a talk on the Shuttle. Obviously I was hooked from start to finish. Afterwards I spoke to him and mentioned I would like to do this as a school project and he said that when he got back he would send me some stuff. I thought no more of it and 3 months later this huge envelople arrived crammed with stuff and a big NASA marked on the front. My teacher handed it to me and I was just buzzing. All original photos from launches and landings, datasheets, drawings, reading matter and a huge poster of the Shuttle showing its insides.
> When I left UK I lost it all  But I did manage to find another one of those posters again on Ebay and I got it. I have a few books on the subject too.
> I dunno what the fascination is, but something had me hooked on it since day one. It's just an incredible piece of machinery.


I remember starting in the mid 60's I would write a letter to NASA about once every two-three months requesting info about the space program. They would always respond by sending a manila envelope with about 10 pictures and several pamplets on spacecraft, space science or missions. Many nice big posters too. I received several envelopes that pics that were close to 16 x 20.

I had all the crew photos from Mercury up to Skylab 3. 
I filled a 2ft x 4ft cardboard box about 1 1/2 ft tall full of these items.
Unfortunately the box was lost/trashed/left behind when my parents moved when I was away at college.


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## mach7

spawndude said:


> I get a sick feeling when I realize these spacecraft are in museums rather than on a mission. Even more disgusting is knowing there really isnt anything be prepared to take their place.


While it is not a shuttle, Dragon is on it's way to the ISS. It could soon be man rated.


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## hal9001

mach7 said:


> While it is not a shuttle, Dragon is on it's way to the ISS. It could soon be man rated.


Yes, and we can only hope and pray this keeps the US in the manned space programs! This sure would be a time to get political, but, alas....we can't!!

hal9001-


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## enterprise_fan

Over the years I have purchased several space shuttles of various sizes, from the small to the large. The largest ones I have are around 19 to 20 inches from bow to stern and 14 inches wing tip to wing tip, most with smooth bottoms. One of them has a raised representation of heat shield tile and three companion pieces, an external fuel tank and two solid booster rockets, brings its height to 30 inches. 

Several years of moving from place to place have done a number on the decals. You see I never knew that they needed to be sealed down to increase their longevity. Now I'm in need of a new set of decales. In my travels over the internet I have seen a lot of sites offering replacement decals for the space shuttle but I have forgotten what size I needed. 

I had started years ago doing a restoration on my space shuttle and booster system. I had gotten the external fuel tank done and started working on the solid fuel boosters when I had to move again. I had almost forgotten about them being packed away until I saw this thread. Now I want to finish my restoration process and maybe detail the tiles on the entire shuttle better. Can anybody tell me what scale my 20 inches by 14 inches space shuttle (30 inches with the two solid fuel boosters and external fuel tank) is? I think it is 1/72 scale but not sure. I would like to buy the right decal size the first time and maybe a paint mask as well if available. 

Thanks in advance for the help.


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## GEH737

Could go on about this subject for a long time... Here's the first time I saw Enterprise at Edwards in 1978



Me at Edwards for the second landing, 1981



Launch view from my condo on Cocoa Beach



One of the coolest images ever was this late afternoon / early evening launch when the exhaust plume turned into a rainbow.



A nice little painting that a guy I know in Salt Lake City did.


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## enterprise_fan

The most memorable shuttle launch I ever saw was from one of the Disney parking lots. It was an early morning launch and the sun was not quite up yet. When the shuttle started its ascent the exhaust plume was dark gray. When the shuttle met the terminator between night and day the plume turned orange. When the shuttle met the new day the plume was bright white, now that's a rainbow. But you're going to have to take my word for it because it was one ot those moment when you wish you had a camera and you don't.


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