# Pattos Decals disintegrating -- Need Tips



## 1976Cordoba (Sep 20, 2000)

Hi --

I type this as a very frustrated man this morning. I've got some Pattos Place decals I've been wanting to apply for a while now and this is the morning -- The F1 race isn't on until noon, the sun is shining, I'm rested from having the weekend off, etc., etc.

So I go to work and the first decal breaks into four parts. Well there's four sets on a sheet so lets try another. Same result. Maybe try a smaller decal first. Take a tiny Bridgestone decal and try it out. Same GD thing.  

Now, I have had trouble with Pattos decals coming apart in the past, but the decal always held up good enough that I was able to manipulate any stray bits back into position. Not so with this one. They literally break apart at each letter and stick upside down to your finger, tweezers, etc. No way to salvage them, basically.

So now my question is this: Is there something I can spray over the top of these decals that can give them a thicker profile and hopefully keep them together long enough for me to get them positioned on the car? Like a type of decal clear coat?

Has anyone had this issue with Pattos stuff before? Like I said I always had a few issues but this is BS. I love his selection and his prices are reasonable but I need a work-around to use these decals, unfortunately.

Thanks,
'doba


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## *MAYHEM* (May 4, 2007)

You could try the Testor's top coat spray they make for their decal kits. Around here it's about $7 a can but it should last you a long time.

Are the decals coming apart right off the sheet or are they breaking when you apply them? If right off the sheet you might try using distilled water to soak them in instead of tap water. I found the chlorine in our tap water was eating my topcoat and making colors run. If they're coming aprt when you apply them you might try some decal set, helps the decal slide a little easier on the body and helps them stick better.


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## videojimmy (Jan 12, 2006)

I would email Patto and ask him what he uses to clear his decal sheet with. I haven't had the problem that you're describing... but I've had it with other decals though, and it is very frustrating. maybe you can take a small piece and spray some clear coat over it and see what happens. If it works, you'll be able to use that same clear coat to cover the car once you've applied the decals with having to worry about it crinkling the decals.

that's what I do when I make my own decals. I spray the decal sheet with whatever clear coat I intend to fininsh thw car with.


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## Jimmy49098 (Jan 5, 2006)

I think the makers of microset make something for this problem, not sure what it is called, J


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## GM454 (Nov 15, 2004)

I have never bought Pattos decals so I can't be 100% certain that he is using an alps printer....however, I see that he offers white ink decals so it must be an alps printer since those are the only ones that print white ink. 

That being said...the alps printers do not require the decal sheet to be clear coated after printing to set the ink, which is the case when printing with an inkjet printer. The decals printed using an alps printer can come straight from the printer, put into water and applied to the car. The difference is in the type of paper used in relation to how the printer puts the ink on the paper. 

Alps printers are micro dry thermal printers that use paper that already has the "waterslide clear coat" applied to the surface of the paper BEFORE the ink is put on. Inkjets printers are printed on waterslide paper but have to have a clear coat applied AFTER the decal is printed to set the inkjet color to keep it from "bleeding" or "running" when it gets wet. Just a matter of the different kinds of ink used between inkjet and alps, laser or other thermal printers. Therefore, I doubt Pattos uses anything to clear his decals sheets after he prints them...simply not necessary if he is using an alps printer. 

1976 CORDOBA have you tried sliding off any decals that were more "solid" like a stripe or number bubble vs individual letter decals? If you have some on the sheet that aren't just letters like the bridgestone decals you mentioned, try something like that if there are any on the sheet, and see if they break apart or come off in one piece like they are supposed to. Just brainstorming to see if it is bad ink or bad paper...if the more "solid type" decals come off without disintegrating, maybe it isn't bad ink but something else is the culprit.

Maybe the paper that the decals were printed on is bad and the waterslide portion isn't holding together and you are literally sliding ONLY INK off of the sheet. (as opposed to sliding INK AND THE WATERSLIDE CLEAR COAT which is the way it should work) That is the only thing I can think of right now to explain the letters coming off individually vs coming off the sheet as one decal as they should.

Not that this is a solution to your problem of the decals breaking apart or fixes the problem of being able to use the bridgestone decals...but maybe you could get something usable from the decal sheets...Numbers, roundels or anything that isn't indvidual letters that make the decal.


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## bumpercar88 (Feb 6, 2005)

Cordoba,
I've used Pattos for a couple of years now. I recently received some Fred Lorenzen decals from him and they were a dream to use. He mignt be using a thicker decal paper now. I've had sheets where the decals break while trying to remove them from paper. I've tried clear coating the decals before soaking and removing the paper. This seemed to work with the larger decals such as numbers but didn't help with the long thin decals such as sponsors. Let me know if you try the distilled water and it works!


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## micyou03 (Apr 8, 2003)

1976Cordoba said:


> Hi --
> 
> I type this as a very frustrated man this morning. I've got some Pattos Place decals I've been wanting to apply for a while now and this is the morning -- The F1 race isn't on until noon, the sun is shining, I'm rested from having the weekend off, etc., etc.
> 
> ...


I had that with a few sheets I've ordered. He was happy to replce them for me. He said something about bad paper. I bought these decals about 1 1/2 years or 2 years ago. One's I've ordered more recently are working fine.

I would like a work around also because its a pain to have to wait for replacements, and I have more sheets from the discentigrating batch that I have been avoiding. Now its been so long since I ordered them I'd hate to have to ask for replacements now.


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## roadrner (Jul 21, 1999)

Although I've never had any troubles using Patto's decals, I've never had any stored for the time period you state these had been locked away. It's possible that may have contributed as well to the circumstances you experienced when trying to apply these decals. I did experience a similar issue with a 1/25 scale model and some aged decals. Once I put them in the water, it looked like a layer of confetti floating in the water after about a minute or so. :freak: rr


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## micyou03 (Apr 8, 2003)

Mine desintegrated when they were new. I haven't used the rest of them because I am afraid I am going to have the problem and its frustrating.


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## GM454 (Nov 15, 2004)

micyou03, Since it is bad paper it appears that the clear waterslide coat is disintegrating or non-existent at this point, so the only thing sliding off of the paper is the ink itself. If the clear coat were present across all of the paper, there should be a clear film the same shape as the cut decal that slides off with the ink...that is what holds the individual letters together when the decals are working properly.

You might try what Videojimmy suggested and spray them with some clear coat used for inkjet decals to see if that would hold them together. I know it is a pain to wait on that stuff to dry, plus you may want to test one sheet to see if the clear attacks the ink before spraying all of them. Since the decal paper is bad and it seems as though the clear coat isn't there or is disintegrating, you are going to need another form of clear to hold the individual letters together in order to use the decals.


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## vaBcHRog (Feb 19, 2003)

Try a lite coat of future on them. MEV's decals are ALPS and he clear coats them. I'm abot 99% sure Pattos Clear coats his too. 

Roger Corrie


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## GM454 (Nov 15, 2004)

I use a glossy finish coat as the last layer that I print when using my Alps printer to help protect the decals. But it is applied by the printer just like any other ink cartridge used in the alps. It is the same as the finish coat used when printing photographs. However, it is not actually necessary to use the gloss finish coat cartridge in the alps when making decals...I just do it to add a little protective finish over the decals. A thin little extra insurance layer between my fingers and the ink. :lol:

Maybe MEV and Pattos are using the glossy finish coat printed from the printer vs spraying a clear coat over the decals. Not sure if that is the case since I haven't used any MEV or Pattos decals.

It just seems to me that spraying a clear coat finish wouldn't be necessary when using the laser waterslide paper with a thermal printer like an alps or laser printer. One main advantage (in my opinion) of using laser waterslide decal paper to make decals vs inkjet decal paper is that you don't have to clear coat the decals to keep the ink from bleeding like you do with an inkjet printer. It just makes it more convenient because you don't have to wait for the clear coat to dry before using the decals like with inkjet waterslide decals.

I have actually used both alps and inkjet printers to make decals. While the inkjet I have does a great job printing decals, I get too impatient waiting for the clear top coat to dry before using them so I just use the alps now.:freak:


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## vaBcHRog (Feb 19, 2003)

You still have to clear coat the Laser printer decals. I have one and the will not hold up without it, unless you mirror print them then flip the decal over when applying even then they sometimes disentegrated.

MEV does clear coat his with Future that is straight from Mike himself, not 100% sure about Patto's. Email him I'm sure he will tell you.


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