# Parking Lot Racing at Riders Hobby Shop



## Fred Knapp (Oct 7, 2001)

May 1st
June 5th
July 3rd
August 7th
September 4th

As far as I can tell it looks like if we get any rain it will be late Friday into early Saturday. Looking good so far. The 2nd week of the month will be the rain date.

1. We need to get someone with a good blower out Friday and spend some time on the track area, it is very dirty. Will someone handle that? I'd spend the time after work Friday but my little blower in junk.

2. I'll need help getting the wood boarders and firehose first thing Saturday morning (8:00am). Someone with a pickup, trailer and several people to help load it.

3. Everyone will need to stick around after the day is done to help pick everything up except the wood boarders.

4. Thanks in advance.


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## Fred Knapp (Oct 7, 2001)

I'm sure we'll see some sedans running.
We could built the track in such a way that we can incorporate oval as well if anyone is up for that.


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## Guest (Apr 27, 2010)

Fred Knapp said:


> 2. I'll need help getting the wood boarders and firehose first thing Saturday morning (8:00am). Someone with a pickup, trailer and several people to help load it.


I will be there at 8 am with my utility trailer. I can be there earlier if you feel 2 trips are needed.

Mike


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## Andrew Knapp (Mar 10, 2008)

Can anyone say VHT!?!?!?


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## S. Jerusalem (Feb 21, 2007)

I'll be there @ 8:00, as well.


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## Guest (Apr 28, 2010)

It looks like Jason is doing his job, the weather report keeps getting better!

Mike


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## J FAST (Dec 12, 2003)

Did somebody say racing at riders!!!!!!


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## PreFontainerc76 (Nov 7, 2007)

Hey mike, i cant make it tonight and the only other time that would work for me is friday night. But it doesnt look like i will have this thing together by saturday electronics wise so i might use saturday as a work day. School is coming to an end so lots of projects and tests so im strugglin for time. Thanks!

Noah PreFontaine


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## Fred Knapp (Oct 7, 2001)

J FAST said:


> Did somebody say racing at riders!!!!!!


Hey man, what up?
Glad to see you poking around of the boards again.
Yeah, trying to get some onroad going again.


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## J FAST (Dec 12, 2003)

Fred Knapp said:


> Hey man, what up?
> Glad to see you poking around of the boards again.
> Yeah, trying to get some onroad going again.


Ha...Been a long hard winter for me. I miss the RC CREW...(except Denney)
I'll try and stop out Sat and catch up. I should have stopped in more this winter but its hard as hell just watching....I will get setup this summer for next indoor season that way ill have new good stuff by then...:wave:

I might have to change my name for a while to 
J Slow lol.. see ya J Slow


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## WarpWind (Oct 21, 2003)

A slow-moving cold front will approach the region on Friday night bringing a chance for late-night showers or thunderstorms prior to daybreak. Temperatures will be around 60 degrees.

On Saturday, the cold front will bring showers and thunderstorms to the region with a break possible during the afternoon. Temperatures will be in the mid 70s. Winds will be southwest at 8-16 mph.

More showers are likely late Saturday night and Sunday as a low pressure system moves along the front to our south/east. Temperatures will cool off into the upper 60s to low 70s. Winds will be variable.

...ugh...  I wonder if X-patterns make for a good intermediate tyre?

Bill.


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## John Warner (Jan 25, 2000)

Here's one from the National Weather Service......

*Friday Night:* Scattered showers and thunderstorms after 2am.
Mostly cloudy, with a low around 60. Breezy, with a south southwest wind between 18 and 22 mph, with gusts as high as 32 mph.
Chance of precipitation is 50%.

*Saturday:* Scattered showers and thunderstorms before 2pm.
Mostly cloudy, with a high near 76. West southwest wind between 15 and 17 mph, with gusts as high as 25 mph.
Chance of precipitation is 40%.


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## 02CooperS (Jan 3, 2007)

So what's the official plan for tomorrow? Meet at 8:00 @ Rogers to pick up boards/hose and head over to Rider's? I can bring my truck if needed also.


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## Fred Knapp (Oct 7, 2001)

02CooperS said:


> So what's the official plan for tomorrow? Meet at 8:00 @ Rogers to pick up boards/hose and head over to Rider's? I can bring my truck if needed also.


Sounds like the plan. Your pick up will be good, not sure how big Mikes trailer is. Need to come up with a good blower though.
I'll post up tonight if anything changes.


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## WarpWind (Oct 21, 2003)

If it's not raining, I can be there too.

Bill.


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## Fred Knapp (Oct 7, 2001)

Terry and I got the track cleaned up, I'll blow it off one more time in the morning.


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## 02CooperS (Jan 3, 2007)

So it looks like mother nature was kind enough to wash the track clean. No more rain on the way, just need the sun to come out and help dry everything out.

The sun is finally out and track drying proceedures are under way.


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## John Warner (Jan 25, 2000)

Looks like the weather turned out nice for the first parking lot race didn't it?


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## Guest (May 2, 2010)

John Warner said:


> Looks like the weather turned out nice for the first parking lot race didn't it?


Yup, a bit of sunshine and some sweeping and we were golden. The VHT was awesome and the surface has survived the years pretty well.

Mike Slaughter


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## Fred Knapp (Oct 7, 2001)

kickyfast said:


> The VHT was awesome and the surface has survived the years pretty well.
> 
> Mike Slaughter


I have even more VHT for next race, June 5th.
The racing surface it approximately 110' X 60'.
Everyone mark your calendar it will be fun, electric only.


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## Max (Oct 11, 2003)

i am jealous... has anyone tried 12th on it?


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## Fred Knapp (Oct 7, 2001)

Max said:


> i am jealous... has anyone tried 12th on it?


We didn't have any last Saturday, not sure you could get enough ride height to make one work on that surface.


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## 02CooperS (Jan 3, 2007)

More Tamiya FF03 hotness to drool over!

http://kentech.blogs.se/

Also it looks like Tamiya is making a rally version of the M05 chassis. I'm turning into a Tamiya freak all of a sudden.

http://banzaihobby.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=384_385&products_id=7907


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## S. Jerusalem (Feb 21, 2007)

02CooperS said:


> More Tamiya FF03 hotness to drool over!
> 
> http://kentech.blogs.se/


Cantilever huh? Looks cool.


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## Max (Oct 11, 2003)

Fred Knapp said:


> We didn't have any last Saturday, not sure you could get enough ride height to make one work on that surface.


has it gotten bumpier?


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## Fred Knapp (Oct 7, 2001)

Max said:


> has it gotten bumpier?


Not really, like Mike had pointed out the surface has survived the years pretty well. It does have a few more cracks in the surface but nothing a little crack filler won't take care of.


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## Fred Knapp (Oct 7, 2001)

Working on some fliers to help get the word out for June 5.


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## 02CooperS (Jan 3, 2007)

More FF03 Fodder. June 26th can't get here soon enough!


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## Fred Knapp (Oct 7, 2001)

Next race is June 5.


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## Guest (May 13, 2010)

Fred Knapp said:


> Next race is June 5.


Can't wait!

So, if the money was able to be raised.... Do you thing the management would let us get away with re-surfacing the track section?

I know, allot of work for a few races, but it needs it after looking at my tires.....

Mike


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## Fred Knapp (Oct 7, 2001)

kickyfast said:


> Can't wait!
> 
> So, if the money was able to be raised.... Do you thing the management would let us get away with re-surfacing the track section?
> 
> ...


I can't see why not.
I'll find out for sure.


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## Guest (May 13, 2010)

02CooperS said:


> More FF03 Fodder. June 26th can't get here soon enough!


And the plot thickens....

http://www.bigsquidrc.com/prototype-suspension-from-yokomo/


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## Guest (May 13, 2010)

kickyfast said:


> And the plot thickens....


And then it just gets weird....

http://www.hobbymedia.it/12992/tamiya-space-bread-il-pane-in-scatola-per-aspiranti-astronauti


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## WarpWind (Oct 21, 2003)

kickyfast said:


> And the plot thickens....
> 
> http://www.bigsquidrc.com/prototype-suspension-from-yokomo/


Maybe I'll wait just a little longer on the Tamiya. That suspension looks pretty kewl.

Bill.


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## kevinm (Jan 16, 2002)

kickyfast said:


> Can't wait!
> 
> So, if the money was able to be raised.... Do you thing the management would let us get away with re-surfacing the track section?
> 
> ...


Lazer Speedway usually applies a fresh sealer coat ("high rubber top coat") to their track every year. Early reports this year have said traction is great. Their first points series race is this SUNDAY...SUNDAY...SUNDAY...
Tire wear there last year was excellent (i.e. they didn't wear), so what they're using apparently works. You guys should make the trip over there and try it once. I'm sure Russ will gladly share his knowledge. And it's much closer than Indianapolis....


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## S. Jerusalem (Feb 21, 2007)

kickyfast said:


> And then it just gets weird....
> 
> http://www.hobbymedia.it/12992/tamiya-space-bread-il-pane-in-scatola-per-aspiranti-astronauti


i think i just pee'd a little bit.


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## Guest (May 14, 2010)

WarpWind said:


> Maybe I'll wait just a little longer on the Tamiya. That suspension looks pretty kewl.


Nope, looks like it is a 1/12th front end. 

http://www.hobby-show.info/shizuoka2010/0655.htm

Lots of good pics here...

http://www.hobby-show.info/shizuoka2010/

Mike


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## kzoolou (Mar 16, 2008)

What kind of stuff is running on the parking lot? How do I get in on it? Touring Car? VTA? 1/12? I've never run onroad before, is there any novice class?

It just sounds fun. If nothing else, I'd like to swing by on the 5th and check it out.


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## WarpWind (Oct 21, 2003)

Generally touring cars rule on asphalt. If it was smooth enough, you could run 1/12th scale. But for Rider's, I'd stick with a sedan. VTA and RCGT seems to be rules most are going by lately. Just depends on how many show up and what they want to run. 

Bill


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## kevinm (Jan 16, 2002)

I asked Russ at Lazer what he used for sealer on the track. His answer was: 
"The stuff I used you get at Ace Hardware, It has a green label and says high rubber content."


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## kzoolou (Mar 16, 2008)

WarpWind said:


> Generally touring cars rule on asphalt. If it was smooth enough, you could run 1/12th scale. But for Rider's, I'd stick with a sedan. VTA and RCGT seems to be rules most are going by lately. Just depends on how many show up and what they want to run.
> 
> Bill


Thanks!

I've got a VTA body and tires, where can I find specs for RCGT?


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## Guest (May 19, 2010)

kzoolou said:


> Thanks!
> 
> I've got a VTA body and tires, where can I find specs for RCGT?


Here is how to get the RCGT Challenge started at your local track:
- Any 1/10th scale 4WD Touring Car chassis.
- Any "realistic/scale" Touring Car/GT body (No "Race" bodies, Stratus, Mazda 6 etc.)
- Bodies should represent models that are running or had been run in the Touring Car, GT2, GT1 classes in ALMS, LeMans, Speed Challenge etc.
- Any 26mm spoked wheels (no dish wheels)

Allowable X-Pattern tire choices are up to the race organizer, with competitiveness and cost in mind:
- HPI #4790 X-Pattern Radial Tire 26mm D-Compound (base spec tire)
- HPI #4490 X-Pattern Radial Tire Pro Compound 26mm (stickier compound for improved traction)
- HPI #4495 X-Pattern Radial Belted Tire Pro Compound 26mm (sticky and belted tire, allows for more speed)
- Kit Lexan wing (flat realistic wing if included) or Plastic realistic wing set(s) only (keeping in mind the spirit of realism of the class)
- 27T/17.5 Motor Limit.
- 6 cell NiMH or 2 cell LiPo 7.2/7.4v battery limit.
- Suggested minimum weight limit: 1450 grams


Keeping the spirit of the class, scale realism, the final decisions on specs should be decided by each local track/organizer and should reflect the local flavor of the track/racers.


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## Guest (May 19, 2010)

kevinm said:


> I asked Russ at Lazer what he used for sealer on the track. His answer was:
> "The stuff I used you get at Ace Hardware, It has a green label and says high rubber content."


I methodically searched their website and no green label stuff..... I did find this at Menards, which is what I was going to get 'cuz it's cheap!

Mike


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## Fred Knapp (Oct 7, 2001)

kickyfast said:


> I methodically searched their website and no green label stuff..... I did find this at Menards, which is what I was going to get 'cuz it's cheap!
> 
> Mike


We have a *good to go* for sealing the track.:thumbsup:


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## kevinm (Jan 16, 2002)

kickyfast said:


> I methodically searched their website and no green label stuff..... I did find this at Menards, which is what I was going to get 'cuz it's cheap!
> 
> Mike


Well, it's got a green label. How'd you find that on Menard's website? I can't find any way to look for a product there.

Anyway, I sent a PM to Russ to see if he can get a part number off of it.


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## John Warner (Jan 25, 2000)

Fred Knapp said:


> We have a *good to go* for sealing the track.:thumbsup:


Then I guess you can consider the deal sealed!


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## S. Jerusalem (Feb 21, 2007)

John Warner said:


> Then I guess you can consider the deal sealed!


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## 02CooperS (Jan 3, 2007)

Haha, Nice Dudda!

FF03 pre-order!
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXZYX5&P=SM
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXZYX6&P=SM

M05RA rally car pre-order. Ignore the WWII model picture.
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXZYX7&P=SM


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## Guest (May 21, 2010)

02CooperS said:


> FF03 pre-order!
> http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXZYX5&P=SM


Done!


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## kevinm (Jan 16, 2002)

More info on Lazer's sealer:
(It was ACO, not Ace Hardware. Missed it by one letter.)



> I was wrong,,,Sorry about that.
> It was ACO Hardware.
> The stuff is made buy DeWitt, there in Detroit Mich.
> It's called Supreme racetrack quality.
> ...


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## woodys3b (Jan 22, 2010)

02CooperS said:


> Haha, Nice Dudda!
> 
> FF03 pre-order!
> http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXZYX5&P=SM
> ...


So, do you foresee a class of these running this fall on the rug? Any thoughts on motor size or other rules? TCS maybe?

Thanks


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## 02CooperS (Jan 3, 2007)

For the FF03 I would assume we would run them with the stock sedans. I believe from what I remember Mike said IFMAR still has FWD sedans in their rules w/ a 100g lighter weight limit. Something we will need to talk about ever the summer.

As far as the M05 rally car, it's just something neat. Don't see any class of these running.


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## 2rc4ever (Feb 3, 2008)

Yo Fred: 
I see parking lot racing has returned to Riders parking lot. Electric only too. Cool! I am interested in trying it out again. I am looking into getting a touring car and then make it into a vintage class car. I am now on a budget, but still want a car I can race out doors and then convert it to indoor racing. How long are your heats? What days are scheduled to race? I am not competitive any more but still like to mix it up on the track as a casual racer, meaning a respectful racer of those that are fast but still do my best. I don't have that passionate competitive racers blood any more but miss racing none the less. 
Regards to you and the guys,
Doug


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## Fred Knapp (Oct 7, 2001)

2rc4ever said:


> Yo Fred:
> I see parking lot racing has returned to Riders parking lot. Electric only too. Cool! I am interested in trying it out again. I am looking into getting a touring car and then make it into a vintage class car. I am now on a budget, but still want a car I can race out doors and then convert it to indoor racing. How long are your heats? What days are scheduled to race? I am not competitive any more but still like to mix it up on the track as a casual racer, meaning a respectful racer of those that are fast but still do my best. I don't have that passionate competitive racers blood any more but miss racing none the less.
> Regards to you and the guys,
> Doug


Hey Doug,
Hope you can find a car to race with, heats are 6 minutes.
We race the first Saturday of the month through the Summer.
The Saturday June 5th is the next race.


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## 2rc4ever (Feb 3, 2008)

*Parking lot racing*

I am watching 2 Associated TC5's on Ebay. They are rollers and include HPI tires on black 8 spoke wheels with 4793 & 4797 tires. Do you guys use the Vintage class rules that are on http://www.usvintagetransam.com/ ? I am getting a 21 turn Novak brushless system too. Will that pass the rules? Even if I don't have a car ready for Saturday, I will stop by to see some racing and help out. I never tried the VTA class and it looks like it will be fun and more conducive to my older reflexes.


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## Fred Knapp (Oct 7, 2001)

2rc4ever said:


> I am watching 2 Associated TC5's on Ebay. They are rollers and include HPI tires on black 8 spoke wheels with 4793 & 4797 tires. Do you guys use the Vintage class rules that are on http://www.usvintagetransam.com/ ? I am getting a 21 turn Novak brushless system too. Will that pass the rules? Even if I don't have a car ready for Saturday, I will stop by to see some racing and help out. I never tried the VTA class and it looks like it will be fun and more conducive to my older reflexes.


The TC5 will make a great VTA car, hope you get it.
Yes, we are using the rules from the usvintagetransam site.
Looking forward to seeing you.


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## Guest (Jun 3, 2010)

It looks like the weather has decided to cooperate! :thumbsup:

Mike Slaughter


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## kevinm (Jan 16, 2002)

Assuming their weather guess is correct, what classes is everyone planning to run? VTA? 17.5? 13.5? Open Mod?

Also, are we able to get AC power from the light poles like we used to?


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## 02CooperS (Jan 3, 2007)

I have a question too. It's not an official VTA rule, but I noticed on the VTA website that they are encouraging an ESC setting of 10* max to even out between the high zoot and basic non adjustable Esc's. Are we going to comply with this rule as well? I'm not against slowing down the timing advanced Esc's to even them out with the rest.

Also it doesn't look like I'll be making it out to race on Sat. I have two softball games tomorrow night and can't get everything torn out of all my off road vehicles, cleaned up and ready tonight.


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## kevinm (Jan 16, 2002)

02CooperS said:


> I have a question too. It's not an official VTA rule, but I noticed on the VTA website that they are encouraging an ESC setting of 10* max to even out between the high zoot and basic non adjustable Esc's. Are we going to comply with this rule as well? I'm not against slowing down the timing advanced Esc's to even them out with the rest...


Well, at Lazer we're going with a "no ESC timing" rule and a 4.2 max FDR, and all the cars are pretty much the same speed on the straightaways. (With one exception. When his legality was questioned, he packed up and went home. ) We are sticking with the 21.5 motor, and I'd personally prefer that G.R. use the same rules as Lazer so I don't have to keep messing with my gearing & ESC settings. But them I'm basically lazy...


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## Fred Knapp (Oct 7, 2001)

kevinm said:


> Assuming their weather guess is correct, what classes is everyone planning to run? VTA? 17.5? 13.5? Open Mod?
> 
> Also, are we able to get AC power from the light poles like we used to?


If your coming out tomorow, we'll have power
Bring everything, never know what we'll have for classes.
Sedan 17.5 is a good bet however.


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## 02CooperS (Jan 3, 2007)

It does look like I'll be able to make it if I thrash like crazy tonight and get up early in the morning. I'll only have my VTA, and maybe the Mini with me. My other sedan is out of commission until I can get some diff parts.


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## hyena boy (Apr 29, 2002)

Is there an easy way to fix a glo plug igniter? The one I have been using for 8 years is dying.


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## 2rc4ever (Feb 3, 2008)

*Parking lot racing*

Looks like I will miss more racing. I finally landed a full time job. It is 2nd shift and starts at 2:30, meaning I will miss racing for a while. Overtime for a while, so I will miss the parking lot thing. However, eventually it will allow me to get back into racing after some obligations are paid off. I do have most of the major items now to make a VTA.
:thumbsup:
Doug


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## Fred Knapp (Oct 7, 2001)

2rc4ever said:


> Looks like I will miss more racing. I finally landed a full time job. It is 2nd shift and starts at 2:30, meaning I will miss racing for a while. Overtime for a while, so I will miss the parking lot thing. However, eventually it will allow me to get back into racing after some obligations are paid off. I do have most of the major items now to make a VTA.
> :thumbsup:
> Doug


Doug,
I'm glad that you found a job. Maybe we will see you on the carpet this fall if everything goes well for you.:thumbsup:

****Next Race July 3rd****


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## 2rc4ever (Feb 3, 2008)

Could any of you guys clarify the tire rules on VTA for me? Do all the tires and wheels have to be 26mm front and rear? Is any offset allowed? Can we use 31mm wheels and tires on the rear?


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## 02CooperS (Jan 3, 2007)

Only HPI vintage 26mm wheels and treaded tires on the front, and the same but 31mm wide out back.

From http://www.usvintagetransam.com/rules/index.html

Tire & Wheel Specifications:
The only tires allowed are HPI tire part #4793 front and #4797 rear, using stock tire inserts provided with tire and any HPI Vintage wheels designed to fit these tires. All other tires and/or part numbers are illegal. Five or Eight spoke wheels available in various colors. 0mm offset front wheels and 6mm offset rear wheels are intended for 26mm width fronts and 31mm width rear tires. 8-spoke Vintage wheels from #3805 through #3814, 5-spoke Vintage wheels from #3815 through #3822 and Vintage stock car wheels from #3854 through #3860, Vintage Wheel CC Type #33472 and #33473, Vintage Wheel DTP Type #33474 and #33475 are all legal wheels.

Grinding of tire tread is NOT permitted. Sanding of mold seam to remove seam is allowed. HPI Vintage Slicks and HPI Vintage Performance Tires are not allowed. Tire traction compounds are at the discretion of the track. No other altering, changing or softening of the tire is allowed. No "double stuffing" of foam inserts allowed—only single stock vintage tire inserts are allowed.


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## 02CooperS (Jan 3, 2007)

Oh Yeah!

"Update 6/10/10: The FF03 has arrived at Tamiya. We will begin processing pre-orders once they arrive at SpeedtechRC."

Picked up a NIP Tamiya Mitzu Lancer EVO VII body off of a guy on RCCrawler for $15 also.


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## 2rc4ever (Feb 3, 2008)

*Another question about VTA rules*

What battery pack is used in VTA? 4 cell, 2 cell lipo? Also what is a good gear ratio to start with for a TC5 on the 17.5 brushless motor.


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## 2rc4ever (Feb 3, 2008)

Another question to field. What tires are being used in the regular touring car classes. Do they use rubber or foam or both? This is just in case there are no VTA cars and I can slap a touring car body on the VTA car and race it that way. Do you race a 17.5 touring car class?


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## kevinm (Jan 16, 2002)

2rc4ever said:


> Another question to field. What tires are being used in the regular touring car classes. Do they use rubber or foam or both? This is just in case there are no VTA cars and I can slap a touring car body on the VTA car and race it that way. Do you race a 17.5 touring car class?


Pretty much only rubber tire & 17.5 motor for standard TC these days. Brand of tire varies, but most come pre-mounted with inserts.

Are any of the Grand Rapizoids thinking about going to the Rib-Fest race in Ft. Wayne this Sunday?


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## Guest (Jun 15, 2010)

kevinm said:


> Are any of the Grand Rapizoids thinking about going to the Rib-Fest race in Ft. Wayne this Sunday?


It is a 50/50 shot for me.... The in-laws stayed an extra week....  

Mike Slaughter


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## rockin_bob13 (Mar 26, 2004)

*VTA rules*

Body Specifications:
Late '60s to early '70s American pony car Vintage Trans-Am bodies only.

Bolink part numbers:
BL2262 '68 Chevrolet Camaro
BL2263 '65 Ford Mustang

HPI part numbers:
17510 - 1970 Plymouth AAR 'Cuda
17519 - 1966 Ford Mustang GT
17508 - 1965 Ford Shelby GT-350
7494 - 1968 Chevrolet Camaro

Parma part numbers:
10143 - 1969 Z28 Camaro
10141 - 1970 Boss Mustang
10113 - 1970 'Cuda

Pegasus Hobbies part numbers:
PGH4001 - 1970 Camaro SS
PGH4002 - 1970 'Cuda
PGH4003 - 1970 Mustang

Body provided deck lid spoilers allowed (not wings). No additional skirts or raised/extended wings or air control surfaces allowed. Body must be trimmed at body trim lines. Full rear bumper required. It is highly preferred that bodies are detailed in race type livery in period-correct paint schemes. Fluorescent colors, wild graphics, chromes and non-period correct paint schemes are frowned upon. All cars must have a number on the hood, both doors and trunklid. Wheel covers of any type are NOT allowed. 
All cars must include a driver figure consisting of at least a head and shoulders.


Tire & Wheel Specifications:
The only tires allowed are HPI tire part #4793 front and #4797 rear, using stock tire inserts provided with tire and any HPI Vintage wheels designed to fit these tires. All other tires and/or part numbers are illegal. Five or Eight spoke wheels available in various colors. 0mm offset front wheels and 6mm offset rear wheels are intended for 26mm width fronts and 31mm width rear tires. 8-spoke Vintage wheels from #3805 through #3814, 5-spoke Vintage wheels from #3815 through #3822 and Vintage stock car wheels from #3854 through #3860, Vintage Wheel CC Type #33472 and #33473, Vintage Wheel DTP Type #33474 and #33475 are all legal wheels.

Grinding of tire tread is NOT permitted. Sanding of mold seam to remove seam is allowed. HPI Vintage Slicks and HPI Vintage Performance Tires are not allowed. Tire traction compounds are at the discretion of the track. No other altering, changing or softening of the tire is allowed. No "double stuffing" of foam inserts allowed—only single stock vintage tire inserts are allowed.


Chassis Specification:
Four Wheel Drive touring car chassis only. Any era or brand 4wd chassis is allowed. An Excel spreadsheet gear ratio and final drive ratio calculator for most touring car chassis is available here.


Motor Specifications:
Option 1: 27-turn ROAR stock motor: No FDR limit, bearings are not allowed.

Option 2: 17.5 brushless: Motor timing advance is allowed. 12.5 mm rotor diameter maximum (no "tuning" rotors are allowed).

Option 3: 21.5 brushless with 2C LiPo: Novak SS21.5 Pro brushless motor (pn:3421)or Ballistic 21.5 (pn:3621) ONLY combined with any ROAR-approved hard-cased 2C 7.4v LiPo pack up to and including 5000 mAh capacity. Novak motor is the ONLY motor allowed at this time. All house track rules regarding LiPo usage apply. Final drive ratio is to not exceed 4.2. Motor timing advance is allowed. 12.5 mm rotor diameter maximum (no "tuning" rotors are allowed).

Suggested gearing FDR recommendations:

27t brushed/4-cell: 5.4 - 5.7 FDR 
17.5 brushless/4-cell: 3.5 - 3.7 FDR 
21.5 brushless/LiPo: 4.2 - 4.6 FDR
Tracks should not dictate which motor combination a racer should choose. All three motor/battery combos have been tested to compete evenly against one another in competition with great success. If any one power choice shows a definitive advantage at a certain track, it is up to the race management to even the racing out via suggested gearing changes.

The Advance Black Diamond ESC is currently not legal at this time

Non-Binding Informational Suggestion: Current testing shows that speed controls set to 10 degrees timing advance, with no additional "Boost" or "Turbo" functions, or profile #1 on LRP speed controls are very close in speed. This is a suggestion for those tracks having a disparity between cars equipped with high timing ESCs and those without. *THIS IS NOT A CURRENT RULE* 


Battery Specifications:
4 cell NiCd or NiMh batteries, 4600 mAh limit
2 cell ROAR-approved LiPo hard cased, 5000 mAh limit (21.5 brushless motor option ONLY)


Ride Height Specification:
Minimum ride height is 5mm.


Weight Specification:
Minimum 1450g in race-ready trim


Race Specification:
- 5 minute qualifiers
- 8 minute mains
- Absolutely NO IFMAR-type starts. All heats and mains should be straight-up starts, with random sorts for each heat. Non random sorts should shuffle starting order for each heat.


Optional Main Variations:
- 12-20 car A-mains, depending on car counts.
- Invert qualifying order based on random hat pull (top 6-10 cars).
- "LeMans" type starts where all cars are lined up on an angle to the racing line in order.
- Run track in reverse rotation for mains.
- Rolling starts




MOST IMPORTANTLY: If it's not in the rules, and does not encompass the spirit of slower, controlled racing with realistic looking cars, consider it illegal. This is called the "Spirit of VTA" Rule. The class is based on slower, equal playing field competition with less traction, minimal aerodynamic aids and mostly older carpet racing technology. The final objective is close, fair, wheel-to-wheel racing for all. All decisions of the race promoter or track owner are final.


Thunder Power 5000, 40C batts are commonly used in VTA, Thunder Power 5200, 50C are commonly used in 17.5 Rubber.
Most guys run Jaco blues in 17.5 rubber.


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## 02CooperS (Jan 3, 2007)

This thread is nearly dead, so I figured I'd spice it up a little bit with this!


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## WarpWind (Oct 21, 2003)

I'm hating you just a little bit right now. Just a little. But hating nonetheless. What to do, what to do? FF03 or a short course? I hate making decisions.... ;P

Bill.


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## Guest (Jun 24, 2010)

WarpWind said:


> I'm hating you just a little bit right now. Just a little. But hating nonetheless. What to do, what to do? FF03 or a short course? I hate making decisions.... ;P
> 
> Bill.


FF03, I should be mounting gear in mine tonight! And then I need to find someone to cut me some vinyl so I can make one of these.....

Mike Slaughter


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## Guest (Jun 25, 2010)

Far too logical, it will never work, nope not even going to think about it. Put it out of your mind, far to sensical for the R/C world.......  

http://www.rctech.net/forum/electric-road/411122-usgt.html

Mike Slaughter


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## 02CooperS (Jan 3, 2007)

I agree Mike! 
Have you thought about gearing for the FF03 yet? I was going to throw in a 21.5 and use the X-Patterns (If the 2mm offset wheels tuck under the body). If I remember right with our VTA's and only running 30d of timing and no turbo we were about a 5.30 FDR. So for the FF03 I'm looking at a 69/34 to get in that range. Maybe a couple teeth less w/ more timing and turbo.


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## WarpWind (Oct 21, 2003)

kickyfast said:


> Far too logical, it will never work, nope not even going to think about it. Put it out of your mind, far to sensical for the R/C world.......
> 
> http://www.rctech.net/forum/electric-road/411122-usgt.html
> 
> Mike Slaughter


Fine, I guess I need a FF03 now. I can live with those rules. 

Bill


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## Guest (Jun 25, 2010)

WarpWind said:


> Fine, I guess I need a FF03 now. I can live with those rules.
> 
> Bill



I would have liked to have seen the 100 gram disparity between FF and AWD per IFMAR, but half the time weights all over the place anyways at the local level..... Otherwise, they look good.

Mike Slaughter


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## Guest (Jun 25, 2010)

02CooperS said:


> I agree Mike!
> Have you thought about gearing for the FF03 yet? I was going to throw in a 21.5 and use the X-Patterns (If the 2mm offset wheels tuck under the body). If I remember right with our VTA's and only running 30d of timing and no turbo we were about a 5.30 FDR. So for the FF03 I'm looking at a 69/34 to get in that range. Maybe a couple teeth less w/ more timing and turbo.


I have no clue to be honest :drunk:. Motors and speedos factor into the equation so much I'm sure we will be all over the map! With an X-12 21.5 and SXX SS I will probably be starting in the 5.5-5.6 range.

It will be interesting to see if we can squeeze some fans in there.....

I have also heard that Novaks (and other similar solder tab motors) are a bear to fit without hacking the solder tabs up.

Mike


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## 02CooperS (Jan 3, 2007)

I did a quick test fit of one of my Novak SS motors and it does fit if you rotate the motor down so the tabs are almost to the chassis, and you solder the wires to the outside of the tabs and not the tops. I haven't tried a ballistic yet. 

As far as a fan I think one should fit directly over the motor no problem with the space available and the extra holes in the motor mount plate or trans. brace. I have a few ideas in mind of a simple fan mount bracket utilizing some scrap stainless and one of the extra holes on the trans. brace. If it works I could fab an extra one up for ya.


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## WarpWind (Oct 21, 2003)

kickyfast said:


> I have no clue to be honest :drunk:. Motors and speedos factor into the equation so much I'm sure we will be all over the map! With an X-12 21.5 and SXX SS I will probably be starting in the 5.5-5.6 range.
> 
> It will be interesting to see if we can squeeze some fans in there.....
> 
> ...


I'm thinking gearing should be along the lines a 2wd buggy, since it's the same transmission. There would have to be some adjustment for rollout, though. When I tried a 21.5 in my buggy, I geared it pretty tall, even with a Tekin.

Bill.


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## Guest (Jun 25, 2010)

BTW, it is looking like there will be a work night next week Tuesday, Wednesday, or both to re-seal the track. The weather is supposed to cool down for those days.

Mike


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## Fred Knapp (Oct 7, 2001)

kickyfast said:


> BTW, it is looking like there will be a work night next week Tuesday, Wednesday, or both to re-seal the track. The weather is supposed to cool down for those days.
> 
> Mike


Thanks for heading up this project.
I will be able to help as soon as I get out of work.


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## Denney (Mar 12, 2002)

Mike/Andy - When I was running a full timing 21.5 in the TC-5 I ran 5.8-6.0 FDR (indoors).

I'm liking the "GT" class rules a lot too...and after seeing how heavy some of the faster VTA cars were in Cleveland (100+ grams heavier than my car), I'm not as concerned about weight...

Andy - As long as your running a fab shop...add one more if you can.

Denney


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## Guest (Jun 25, 2010)

Fred Knapp said:


> Thanks for heading up this project.
> I will be able to help as soon as I get out of work.


Actually, if anything Terry has been the behind the scenes motivator! He has generously offered to match my contribution and Denny and Andy both chipped in a good chunk as well. He has also used his contacts to find the best products to use on the track as well.

I'm sure if he isn't in Arizona Bill would gladly push a squeegee and Max has volunteered as well.

I'm just another cog among a great group trying to continually improve racing in GR.

Mike


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## WarpWind (Oct 21, 2003)

kickyfast said:


> I'm sure if he isn't in Arizona Bill would gladly push a squeegee and Max has volunteered as well.


Manual Labor!  I may ruin my future as a hand model! But I guess it's a small price to pay for my love of racing.

Bill.


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## Denney (Mar 12, 2002)

Bill - I'll bring you some oven mits to wear...


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## 02CooperS (Jan 3, 2007)

Denney said:


> Mike/Andy - When I was running a full timing 21.5 in the TC-5 I ran 5.8-6.0 FDR (indoors).
> 
> Andy - As long as your running a fab shop...add one more if you can.
> 
> Denney


Thanks Denney, and I'll buzz up a third for you as well. Gonna test out the battery in the cordless Dremel this weekend.

I'll do what I can for help on the p-lot next week. I go in on Monday so see if the shoulder needs surgery or not.


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## kevinm (Jan 16, 2002)

02CooperS said:


> I agree Mike!
> Have you thought about gearing for the FF03 yet? I was going to throw in a 21.5 and use the X-Patterns (If the 2mm offset wheels tuck under the body). If I remember right with our VTA's and only running 30d of timing and no turbo we were about a 5.30 FDR. So for the FF03 I'm looking at a 69/34 to get in that range. Maybe a couple teeth less w/ more timing and turbo.


At the Ft. Wayne race last weekend I ended up at 5.00FDR with 30° ESC timing (no turbo) in the VTA car. One thing I learned (or maybe re-learned) is if you're running ESC timing, DO NOT add motor mechanical timing to it. Turn the motor back to zero. Motor temp. dropped 40°F and all I did was take out mech. timing, without any apparent loss of speed. (In fact, it was faster at the end of the race.)


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## 02CooperS (Jan 3, 2007)

Well the stainless steel fan mount was a bust, literally. Don't have the proper equipment to cut out the hole in the center of the mount for the fan. So I used 1/4" delrin, and it worked like a charm! Had to dye it blue as well to match the rest of the car.

Finished mount









Attached to the car w/ a Muchmore 30mm fan


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## Guest (Jun 29, 2010)

Sorry for the late notice, but a few ducks had to be sorted into rows. It looks like tomorrow will be the night to lay down the sealer. Any help will be appreciated! I am picking up the sealer after work tomorrow and will be there around 5pm. Most of the help will be arriving around 6pm but the surface will need to be prepped before hand.

Thanks to any and all that can help! And extra thanks to Denney, Andy, and Terry for there generous help in purchasing the sealer! 

Mike Slaughter


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## 02CooperS (Jan 3, 2007)

I can be by tonight to help. I'll bring a broom or two to help sweep the dirt off. Should be there somewhere around 5:15-5:30.

I also have a FF03 fan mount mount for you Mike, and Denney.


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## Guest (Jun 30, 2010)

02CooperS said:


> I also have a FF03 fan mount mount for you Mike, and Denney.


Sweet!

Of course my head now hurts after reading about sealers...... Allot of threads on RC Tech says it makes things worse, and a few better...... 

I'm starting to think Terry has the right idea in just doing the racing line for now to save on cost/time and see if we are shooting ourselves in the foot....

Mike


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## 2rc4ever (Feb 3, 2008)

*Riders parking lot racing*

I have a full time job now and will not be able to make the race at Riders. I am still anxious to race the VTA class but will have to wait until I am transfered to nights towards the end of Sept. Which by then will be indoor racing season. CU Yall Later

Doug


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## kevinm (Jan 16, 2002)

How'd the sealer project go? Are we ready to go tomorrow?


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## Guest (Jul 2, 2010)

kevinm said:


> How'd the sealer project go? Are we ready to go tomorrow?


All set! :thumbsup:

Mike Slaughter


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## WarpWind (Oct 21, 2003)

Hey Andy, any way of talking you into making another fan mount? Seems I have a Tamiya heading my way as well.

Bill.


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## Denney (Mar 12, 2002)

Resistance is Futile...apparently.


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## 02CooperS (Jan 3, 2007)

WarpWind said:


> Hey Andy, any way of talking you into making another fan mount? Seems I have a Tamiya heading my way as well.
> 
> Bill.


Not a problem, I'll have it ready for the next parking lot run. Also you'll want to pick up, or make an extension for your fan wires


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## 02CooperS (Jan 3, 2007)

Mike, Bill, Denney

FF03 Aluminum diff halves are in stock at Speedtech! http://www.speedtechrc.com/store/ebproductdetail.asp?catmainid=896&id=9801

I ordered two sets just in case they run out before you guys get one.

Also Bill, a heads up on building the diff in the FF03. Use CA glue to glue the diff rings to the diff halves, not rubber cement. Right Mike?


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## WarpWind (Oct 21, 2003)

To the guys with FF03s already, did anyone else have an issue trying to get a brushless motor in theirs? I've tried a Ballistic and a Duo 2 with no success. What the devil did I do wrong.....

Bill.


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## 02CooperS (Jan 3, 2007)

Unfortunately nothing Bill. I run a Novak SS motor, so I don't know about a Duo, but I know a ballistic is not going to go in the FF03 easily.....Unless one were to put a spacer on the motor to get the tabs away from the front brace, like say the circular motor mount for the XX4/XXX-S. Give me a few days and I may come up with a solution. I could possibly try to make a spacer from the same .25" delrin as the fan mount.


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## Mike Howe (Jan 4, 2007)

What's up ya'll? Just wondering what tires everyone is using for sedans outside. And are they on the shelf at riders? I want to try and come out and play a little with my 007 one of these days. Since no one seems to want to buy it. Thanks :thumbsup:


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## Fred Knapp (Oct 7, 2001)

Mike Howe said:


> What's up ya'll? Just wondering what tires everyone is using for sedans outside. And are they on the shelf at riders? I want to try and come out and play a little with my 007 one of these days. Since no one seems to want to buy it. Thanks :thumbsup:


Andrew has been using Jaco Blues, the last set he had seemed to chunk easy however. We don't have any on the shelf at the store. Can order some for you if you'd like.


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## kevinm (Jan 16, 2002)

Denney said he's got enough tires for everybody. I'm sure that's what I heard .... :wave:


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## GM8 (Jul 28, 2010)

Is there any nitro sedan action? I'm an old timer that may come out of retirement to make some smoke...


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## John Warner (Jan 25, 2000)

GM8 said:


> Is there any nitro sedan action? I'm an old timer that may come out of retirement to make some smoke...


I can't agree with the "old timer" bit, but I will agree you've been out of racing far too long!:thumbsup:


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## Fred Knapp (Oct 7, 2001)

GM8 said:


> Is there any nitro sedan action? I'm an old timer that may come out of retirement to make some smoke...


We are only allowed to run electric, Sorry.


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## Mike Howe (Jan 4, 2007)

Fred Knapp said:


> Andrew has been using Jaco Blues, the last set he had seemed to chunk easy however. We don't have any on the shelf at the store. Can order some for you if you'd like.


I'll prolly just come out and run what ever I have laying around. I prolly got some kind of round tires I can put on to run some laps for a day. Got a lot of time these days but very little cash..


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## GM8 (Jul 28, 2010)

Fred Knapp said:


> We are only allowed to run electric, Sorry.


Good to know. Thanx.


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## Fred Knapp (Oct 7, 2001)

I'll get the track cleaned off tonight so its ready for tomorrow.


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