# Motor Turns



## basketcase45 (Aug 4, 2004)

This may be a stupid question.

In the world of brushed motors the speed and torque of a motor are determined by how many, and how many times wires are wrapped around the rotor poles of the motor. ie. 10 turn, or 10 turn double, triple, etc. Since brushless motors wrap the wires inside the can, instead of around the rotor, ( the rotor is a permanent magnet) how does that translate into turns? Or is it that it is just put in those terms to make a comparison to a known brushed motor's power?

Also, I am wondering why nearly all brushless motors are expressed in a half turn, ie. 10.5, 13.5, etc. 

Thanks


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## ta_man (Apr 10, 2005)

The wire is wrapped around the stator instead of the armature, so number of turns is still something that makes a difference as far as motor performance. The "turns" are still the number of times the wire is wrapped around the pole piece, but in a brushless motor, the pole piece is the stator.

The most common brushless motors we using for 1/10th cars are described in half turn increments because the wire wrapping starts at one end of the motor and finishes at the other end. So the half turn is the last part of the wrap that went from the place where the wire started to where it finished. It maybe didn't have to be this way, but it looks like doing it this way is a simpler design and easier to manufacture than having a whole number of turns. It is mainly a function of these motors being "wye" wound.

Some of the brushless motors used for 1/8th scale electrics are also wye wound but can be had in full and half turn increments. I believe is is because they are four pole motors rather than two pole motors.

If that didn't leave you with more questions than you had before, you understand a lot.


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## nitro4294 (Oct 15, 2004)

ta_man said:


> The wire is wrapped around the stator instead of the armature, so number of turns is still something that makes a difference as far as motor performance. The "turns" are still the number of times the wire is wrapped around the pole piece, but in a brushless motor, the pole piece is the stator.
> 
> The most common brushless motors we using for 1/10th cars are described in half turn increments because the wire wrapping starts at one end of the motor and finishes at the other end. So the half turn is the last part of the wrap that went from the place where the wire started to where it finished. It maybe didn't have to be this way, but it looks like doing it this way is a simpler design and easier to manufacture than having a whole number of turns. It is mainly a function of these motors being "wye" wound.
> 
> ...


That is some good info, and the scary part is I understood it. You did a good job putting it into terms everybody should be able to understand.
Thanks.:thumbsup:


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## TamiyaKing (Nov 14, 2008)

Absolutlely good way of explaining that,it still a new thing for me im still running the ol brushed motors:thumbsup:


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## jgullo53 (Jun 26, 2008)

it makes you wonder how much longer they will be making brushed motors for...


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## Mike Clark (Apr 28, 2007)

maxxgullo said:


> it makes you wonder how much longer they will be making brushed motors for...


Max you do to much thinking! When the manufacturers turn off the brushed motor production that's when. But with the super high cost of brushless & Lipo systems, what's the hurry?


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## NovakTwo (Feb 8, 2006)

Mike Clark said:


> Max you do to much thinking! When the manufacturers turn off the brushed motor production that's when. But with the super high cost of brushless & Lipo systems, what's the hurry?



The manufacturers have already pretty much turned off (design wise) the brush motor ESCs.....


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## nutz4rc (Oct 14, 2003)

When was the last time anyone saw a new brushed stock motor? That should tell you where it is heading. I don't see that brushless is that much more expensive. Yes the initial cost is more but look at what you save in cost and time. No more cutting comms, no more new brushes with every comm cut, no more constantly tearing down and cleaning. I have run a brushless combo for a year and only cleaned and lubed motor once. More time to work on car setups, talk to racers, and eat track food.


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## nitro4294 (Oct 15, 2004)

nutz4rc said:


> When was the last time anyone saw a new brushed stock motor? That should tell you where it is heading. I don't see that brushless is that much more expensive. Yes the initial cost is more but look at what you save in cost and time. No more cutting comms, no more new brushes with every comm cut, no more constantly tearing down and cleaning. I have run a brushless combo for a year and only cleaned and lubed motor once. More time to work on car setups, talk to racers, and eat track food.


You're right on the long term cost of running brushed motors but I believe what the new racer sees is the initial cost. When they see even $150 for a sport brushless set up and then another $40 or $50 for a lipo, then the additional cost of a charger, it tends to give them sticker shock. I think a lot of newbees will start with brushed then migrate to brushless when it's time to upgrade. That's is why the club I race with doesn't allow brushless and lipo in novice and stock classes.
In the long term, brushless and lipo are the future of this game, that's why I run them and promote them to the more experienced racers.

:woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo:


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