# Fixer upper



## ThomasModels (Mar 8, 2000)

Now that the kit has started appearing, I thought I would share some of the behind the scenes fix notations that were exchanged with china.

These are images of the mock up after it was initially received, after the first batch of corrections were made, after the second set of corrections and after some corrections to the plastic parts were made.

You may post a *link to this thread or the HobbyTalk board* on another board, but *DO NOT LINK TO THIS FOLDER. DO NOT POST A DIRECT URL LINK TO THIS FOLDER ON ANY OTHER MESSAGE BOARD.*

All of the images on thomasmodels.com are the property of Thomas Models and may not be distributed, copied, or posted elsewhere without prior written consent. Just ask! We're easy to work with!

Enjoy!
http://www.thomasmodels.com/refitfix/

Just where IS Gary when you need him?


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## Steven Coffey (Jan 5, 2005)

This shows the great lengths you went to ,to insure that we got the best model of the Refit possible !Thank you very much ! Now if I could just get the ones I ordered! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


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## woof359 (Apr 27, 2003)

*Amt Refit*

i had no idea the AMT kit was so far off. i bet the guys in china had some choice words to descibe you when you sent it back for updates


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## tripdeer (Mar 7, 2004)

Wow, really interesting, Thomas. It's really neat to get a special insight into these things... :thumbsup:

Dan


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## El Gato (Jul 15, 2000)

Cool! Please say you'll keep this folder up for a while. It's neat to see the photos of the model. They're also really good painting references! :thumbsup:

José


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## Ziz (Feb 22, 1999)

Makes you think twice about that "Made in China" label on the back of your computer, don't it?


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## Nova Designs (Oct 10, 2000)

Man is that even all of them. I remember there being a lot more. Hehe, glad you can show everyone all the painstaking work you put into this for all our benefit.


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## Four Mad Men (Jan 26, 2004)

Good Grief, Charlie Brown! Thomas, I think everyone who bought one should match the purchase price and send it to you. At least half anyway (and Lloyd should start). Thank you.


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## kylwell (Mar 13, 2004)

Holey cow Thomas.

Man I thought doing revisions (upon revisions) to a bike jersey was trying.

Man.

Thanks for sharing that with us. I've got to admit, I'm now more curious about the steps to get a model gets produced.


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## ThomasModels (Mar 8, 2000)

You're welcome!

Wes is right, that's only about 1/4 of all the revised notes I made. I know that Dave had his own sets of fit notes that also numbered very high.


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## Sword of Whedon (Jul 5, 2004)

Thing of Beauty thomas. Any way we can see some shots of your finished kit? It' slooks quite purty from here


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## jasonbrian (Apr 25, 2005)

Wow!!! I work in injection molding and I'm still trying to wrap my mind around the number of changes you requested and the tooling mods it must have taken. I get mad when someone want's an ejector pin changed or a single vent deepened to reduce burning. And God help you if you request any EDM work. I don't know how many 'cuss words the Chinese have in their vocabulary, but I'll bet they used every one of them while dealing with you, and probably invented a few new ones. I guess it's a good thing you used Chinese mold-makers, huh? It would have cost waaay too much to get all of those changes from a domestic shop. Thanks for your dedication to the product. Can't wait to get my two copies. And I promise, I won't nit-pick about any flash, sinks, ejector pin marks or flow lines. I'm grateful just for the accuracy.


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## Steven Coffey (Jan 5, 2005)

I think that even though the cost may have been high for an American company to do this there may not have been as many fixes needed .The language barrier is a huge thing .


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## TheYoshinator! (Apr 2, 2004)

Lots of hard work there Thomas! You should be very proud! Thanks for helping to bring this kit to life, man! It's without a doubt the best Star Trek kit ever!

I wished Hobbytown would call me a.s.a.p! I can't wait to handle this puppy!


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## EvilWays (Jul 21, 2004)

This'll make for a great late birthday (April 20th) present for me when I get my shipment...

*Listens to Leaving Drydock from ST: TMP Soundtrack*


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## chunkeymonkey (May 4, 2004)

WOW !!!!

Thanks for putting those on thomas.

It gives us mere modelling mortals an insight into just how much work goes into making a model and why it's been worth the wait for this kit.

You have done yourself and all those who helped develop this kit proud. If this is the future of sci-fi modelling then the future is rosy. just hope it's regarded as a best seller for rc2.....we'll see.

And if anyone out there is nit-picking and griping about details then they don't really comprehend how much time and effort has gone into the development.

thanks again thomas (and all who helped), and we hope this kit is NOT your swansong!! :wave:


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## tripdeer (Mar 7, 2004)

^^ Hear hear, my friend, hear hear, those sentiments are shared by myself as well! :thumbsup:


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## razorwyre1 (Jan 28, 2004)

wow! thanks thomas, for being so damn fussy. we all owe you.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

To anyone who has belittled your effort and said "all you did was draw up the plans," may I say:


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## Nova Designs (Oct 10, 2000)

I couldn't have said it any better John! :thumbsup:


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## MGagen (Dec 18, 2001)

Wow! Now I know why so many models have errors in them. You can provide perfect plans and a spot on mockup and you still get _this_. 

I can just imagine the test shot for a typical SF subject getting a "Yeah, looks good -- close enough" response from the average model company. Thank heavens we have folks who really care working on this baby. 

Thomas, my hat is off to you! I hope and pray they have you working on a 1:350 of the original ship about now...

Mark

P.S.: Thanks for being so generous with the behind-the-scenes material on this project!


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## Rogue1 (Jan 3, 2000)

WOW! Noone can complain about the level of detail put in this kit....Excellent job, and way to keep after them!


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## phicks (Nov 5, 2002)

Incredible detail! Let's all be sure to vote for this one as FSM's kit of the year 2005.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

GREAT WORK, Tom! Your success is an inspiration for obssessve compulsives everywhere! :jest: 

Seriously, I really do appreciate your attention to detail so don't take it personally when I sand it all off.  

BTW: It looks to me as if AMT skipped this part of the procedure when they made the first model kit of the ST:TMP 1701.


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## Sword of Whedon (Jul 5, 2004)

Let me add my appriciation too. It's been a lonnnnnggg wait, but anal-retentive fanboyness wins the day every time. As a major studio executive said, back when DVD was getting going "If you please the insane 5%, the other 95 will follow" I'd say you've gotten within 1-2%


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## kylwell (Mar 13, 2004)

Well, having now the model in hand, I again want to deliver a jaw dropping "Thanks!".

My gawd, they'll never get it on the record album.

This beast is beautiful. Holey frell! And now have seen the before & after shots I'm even more tickled with the kit. 

I know, I'm gushing, but I still remember my first refit (a smoothy) and this is just simply awe inspiring.

Thanks again.


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## Quintillus (Jul 2, 2002)

*A little Question*

Thomas:


Since this is the first inside look for many of us on the production of a kit, I was curious if you knew where some of the differences came from. I can understand something that wasn't shaped quite right (like the bridge dome) or things omitted (Like those small recessed lines around the bridge) but how do the mold makers explain blatant additions (like additional recessed lines and panel on the hull bottom)?


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## Thom S. (Sep 28, 2004)

Things not shaped right? Additional lines and panels? On the Polar refit or another kit?


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## guartho (May 4, 2004)

I think he's talking about things you corrected. I was wondering the same thing... Why the hell was there another phaser bank between the bridge and the impulse crystal? for instance. It seemed like they just decided to add some random stuff. (Perhaps there is a super Trekkie in China and he was testing you.)


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## dsscse (Dec 19, 2004)

ThomasModels said:


> Now that the kit has started appearing, I thought I would share some of the behind the scenes fix notations that were exchanged with china.
> 
> These are images of the mock up after it was initially received, after the first batch of corrections were made, after the second set of corrections and after some corrections to the plastic parts were made.................................................................................................
> ........................................................
> Just where IS Gary when you need him?


It must have been Hell!


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## sbaxter (Jan 8, 2002)

John P said:


> may I say:


How do you pronounce that? 

Qapla'

SSB


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## Disillusionist (Apr 19, 2003)

Hey! Where'd my socks go??? Oh! There they are on the other side of the room!  That's incredible work Thomas. :thumbsup: I just spent two hours driving around town searching for one of these beauties, even though I have 4 preordered. I can't wait to get my paws on one. 

Also, it's very refreshing to see a few new, and unfamiliar pictures of the filming model. Any chance we'll have access to any more references of that sort?

Matt


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## Griffworks (Jun 24, 2002)

sbaxter said:


> How do you pronounce that?
> 
> Qapla'
> 
> SSB


Just like it's spelled, dude - "Bite Me". :lol:


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## KUROK (Feb 2, 2004)

Thom,
Incredible attention to detail. Thanks for working so hard to get it right. Other model companies should learn from this dedication!!!!


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## JGG1701 (Nov 9, 2004)

I totally agree!!! :thumbsup: 
Most excellant work.
Thankyou Mr. Thomas


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## Ziz (Feb 22, 1999)

extra panel lines

steps and textures

extra phasers

arbitrarily relocated alignment pins

arbitrarily relocated alignment pins 2

All they had to do was follow the plans. Why did they take it upon themselves to re-engineer and re-detail the kit?


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## Trekfreak (Mar 26, 2005)

May I say to you Mr. Sasser, that this is a masterpiece! :thumbsup:


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## Thom S. (Sep 28, 2004)

Thank you, Trekfreak.

Ziz, They didn't.

I thought Quintillus was referring to the final product.

What you guys are looking at in that folder was a *work in progress*. It may be difficult to understand, but tools do not just 'happen'. Cutting and routing bits are not applied to a solid block of steel and out pops a finished plastic model kit. There are many stages of fitting, adjustments, detailing and milling work that is applied before we come close to having something that remotely looks like it should. All that comes well after a prototype is produced and adjusted.

I posted that folder to give you guys some insight into the tooling of this kit. A few of you seem to be obsessing on the proceedure and "why this" and "why that" and not on the final product which is where your attention should be focused. These types of things are common when tooling a 200+ part model kit. Many stages of adjustment are necessary to make the kit what it was designed to be.

That folder is a rare look into the tooling of a kit. Those were a small slice of some of the steps it took to get that kit tooled and into your hands. Enjoys the fruits of the labor of so many people who worked for a year adding, correcting, finalizing to bring you several hours of modeling enjoyment.


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## Ziz (Feb 22, 1999)

Granted, things happen in stages. What we're all confused about is that it should logically be a progression...find a problem, fix it, the end. Not find a problem, fix it, still have it, re-fix it, it's still wrong, fix it again, now it's wrong a different way, ad infinitum.

We're questioning their competence, not yours.


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## Heavens Eagle (Jun 30, 2003)

The photos are actually nice additions to help detail the finished kit. The inclusions of the plans and original model photos are icing on the cake. I personally would love to have a set of the drawings used to make the kit. (I am an info hog, what can I say) In any case if there ever becomes a way that some copies (autographed?) could become available. OH BOY!


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## Lloyd Collins (Sep 25, 2004)

I just enjoy the behind the scenes journey to the final model. That's what makes being here so much fun. Thomas has done a great job of keeping us informed, and I am glad to see the fruits of his labors. Now I will be glad to get the kit. Thanks Thomas!


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## Sword of Whedon (Jul 5, 2004)

Let's have a round of applause for everyone. Thomas, Dave, guys in China, everyone who helped make it happen.


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## capt Locknar (Dec 29, 2002)

TheYoshinator! said:


> I wished Hobbytown would call me a.s.a.p! I can't wait to handle this puppy!


Good luck on that one, Our Hobby Towns here didn't get any of the new PL star trek stuff till almost 2 months after they were released.


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## Edge (Sep 5, 2003)

Sword of Whedon said:


> Let's have a round of applause for everyone. Thomas, Dave, guys in China, everyone who helped make it happen.


Bravo Zulu to all involved. Give yourselfs a pat on the back.










Edge


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## TheYoshinator! (Apr 2, 2004)

WELL!!! Today, the 26th, was my birthday. It's almost past now and I just cannot wait to get my birthday present that I bought for myself!

Can anyone guess what it was? LOL!

Great pics Thomas. That is truely an interesting pictorial of the kit making process. I think some people don't realize that machining STILL involves people. It isn't totally a matter of inputing a cad model or path code and a mold is cut. It can be in some places but not in most especially in the finishing. There's still a human touch to all this and it's a trial and error process.

Btw, who do I kill to get your reference CD Thomas! :tongue: I remember you mentioned you had over 600mb worth.


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## tripdeer (Mar 7, 2004)

Oh, and Yoshi,


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## TrekFX (Apr 15, 2004)

Thom S. said:


> Enjoys the fruits of the labor of so many people who worked for a year adding, correcting, finalizing to bring you *several hours* of modeling enjoyment.


(emphasis mine)

Thomas, you obviously have a gift for understatement!


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Ziz said:


> Granted, things happen in stages. What we're all confused about is that it should logically be a progression...find a problem, fix it, the end. Not find a problem, fix it, still have it, re-fix it, it's still wrong, fix it again, now it's wrong a different way, ad infinitum.


 Apparently you've never been the graphics guy on a viewgraph presentation for a group of avionics engineers. :freak:


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

And, honestly, no snideness intended, it's a friggin shame the folks on Cult's board won't be allowed to see these pictures.


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## Nova Designs (Oct 10, 2000)

Why? They can always come over here and look at them.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Yes, but anybody who frequents Cult's boards only and/or doesn't know about Hobby Talk can't. I'm sure there must be a few people like that.

When Tom was posting in-progress pics of the test shots, I tried to post as innocently and obscurely as posible, without reference to Tom and without a direct link, just saying "there are pics available over at Hobby Talk." Nothing more. Just tryin to spread the word in case any fans didn't know. My post was deleted and I got a nasty email. I mean, WTF?!


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

What's the rationale now? That mere mention of pictures of a product that PL/RC makes and sells may somehow lead to someone to purchase OTHER products from the person who took the pictures?


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## capt Locknar (Dec 29, 2002)

But yet steve can sell them and Profit off of Thomas' Work. Go figure.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

PerfesserCoffee said:


> What's the rationale now? That mere mention of pictures of a product that PL/RC makes and sells may somehow lead to someone to purchase OTHER products from the person who took the pictures?


 Yes.

Really, I don't want to start a bashing session, I'm just saying it really makes me sad and frustrated.


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## ChrisDoll (Sep 2, 1999)

I really do not know which is worse - the fact that Thomas and Steve are still angry at each other or that that you guys keep dregging it up. It's still possible for folks out there to practice a certain amount of free will - just because I don't post here doesn't mean I didn't look at the pics. And they were very cool I might add, I love seeing the process. I don't think there's any debate that Thomas did a fantastic job on the engineering of this model. And anyone who's ever been involved in developing a complex product knows there are a lot of steps involved, and the process needs to be policed.

I do think everyone needs to just chill out a bit.

And as to who can sell them? Come 'on, it's Polar Light's kit - the more that are sold the merrier!


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

ChrisDoll said:


> I really do not know which is worse - the fact that Thomas and Steve are still angry at each other or that that you guys keep dregging it up. It's still possible for folks out there to practice a certain amount of free will - just because I don't post here doesn't mean I didn't look at the pics.


You are more then welcome to post here though. The only thing that Capt Locknar and Thomas doesn't allow is pointless flaming, other then the standard Hobbytalk restrictions.

I'd point out that as long as posts like John's keep getting deleted then he's not really dredging anything up - it's an ongoing issue.

TrekAce was banned for correcting a guy's spelling! 

Anyhow, hope you'll send the links to anyone who is interested directly, if someone over there expresses interest.


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## Thom S. (Sep 28, 2004)

Thank you, Chris. Please, do not include me in on the anger thing. As I have said all along, I have nothing against Steve Iverson. I do not endorse or deny the good people over here from expressing their points of view, nor does that make my POV the same as theirs or Mr. Iverson's. A couple of fellows wish to vilify me for that, hoping to distract from their own poor choices. Again, please do not include me on the list of who's angry at whom.

I just came in here and saw all this. Please, let's not speculate on who did what, motives, and so forth. It does no one any good. I don't want to have to clean house again. I posted those images for *all* modelers to see and enjoy. I don't care who sees them, as long as they are coming over and looking (and they are)!

Thanks for coming by and posting, Chris! Say HI to Darth for us.


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## uss_columbia (Jul 15, 2003)

I've just looked at those pictures, and I must say WOW! I'm involved in product development including working with toolers, and I know it's usually a give and take of "I want it to look like this" vs. "you can get it to look like this for $x but it will cost $$$$$Y to make it look like that." (Of course, we're making plastic product housings for which low part count is the key as opposed to having 200 parts.) Anyway, it looks like trades of easy-to-mold vs accurate were simply decided in favor of accuracy without regard to difficulty or rework in the tools. Impressive! Thanks for the dedication, Thomas!


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## cinc2020 (May 10, 2004)

*Impressive*

Thomas,

Truly impressive indeed. Thanks for the outstanding work. You have lifted the often toy-like treatment of science fiction model building to a new level of excellence.

I will cringe when I see the dastardly deeds levied upon some of these wonderful 1/350 kits...


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

I can't hold a part of the model kit, just as is, unbuilt maybe still on the sprue, without my imagination taking off. Truly a work of art.


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## bludden (Jun 6, 2001)

Fix010 is awesome! Thomas, thank you so much for your fantastic attention to detail on our behalf, and sharing this great insight to the process with us.


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## jcd132 (Jan 13, 2000)

It's a beauty! This is truly a renaissance time for us Sci-Fi modelers. Wow! Keep up the great work PL and TS.


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## TheYoshinator! (Apr 2, 2004)

Thomas,

Any chance of seeing more pics? Everyone loves this stuff!

Oh and Tripdeer, THANKS!


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## fjimi (Sep 29, 2004)

Speechless...

The attention to detail, level of accuracy and skills of Mr. Sasser far surpasses those of mortal men.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

Thom S. said:


> Thanks for coming by and posting, Chris! Say HI to Darth for us.


Thomas...
He is your Father, Thomas! :lol:


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## Tony Agustin (Nov 25, 1999)

I'm impressed with the magnitude of errors that Thomas spotted and documented for the toolers that needed correcting. Definitely some outstanding quality control there Mr. Sasser.


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## Eric K (Jul 15, 2001)

Well, I'll be!! all I can say is..."Zowie"!! Looks good and can't wait to get my hands on two or three of these puppies


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## Just Plain Al (Sep 7, 1999)

.....


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## ClubTepes (Jul 31, 2002)

phicks said:


> Incredible detail! Let's all be sure to vote for this one as FSM's kit of the year 2005.


For sure. 

Plus it would make all the other model disiplines go WTF?? A sci-fi kit? Really??


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## Quintillus (Jul 2, 2002)

Thom S. said:


> Thank you, Trekfreak.
> 
> What you guys are looking at in that folder was a *work in progress*. It may be difficult to understand, but tools do not just 'happen'. Cutting and routing bits are not applied to a solid block of steel and out pops a finished plastic model kit. There are many stages of fitting, adjustments, detailing and milling work that is applied before we come close to having something that remotely looks like it should. All that comes well after a prototype is produced and adjusted.


I may not understand the entire process, but I do realize that models are not delivered by the Polar Lights Fairies.

I know that when I design something, and produce the scale model and work up the construction drawings, I can understand when someone misses a small detail or assumes that some detail should be repeated when it really shouldn't. But when one of my crew just adds a complete detail apparently out of nowhere, I want to know what they were thinking.

There must have been a few mistakes that you just said "What the hell?!" when you saw them.



Thom S. said:


> I posted that folder to give you guys some insight into the tooling of this kit. A few of you seem to be obsessing on the proceedure and "why this" and "why that" and not on the final product which is where your attention should be focused. These types of things are common when tooling a 200+ part model kit. Many stages of adjustment are necessary to make the kit what it was designed to be.


I wouldn't say we're obsessing... if anything we're responding to this discussion thread in the vein it was started. Or so I thought. (Except for the detour into, shall we say "old Business".)

You've been gracious enough, if sometimes a bit evasive, about sharing the progress of this kit. I don't think some of us can help but be curious about the process behind our hobby. It's like coin collectors touring the US Mint.



Thom S. said:


> That folder is a rare look into the tooling of a kit. Those were a small slice of some of the steps it took to get that kit tooled and into your hands. Enjoys the fruits of the labor of so many people who worked for a year adding, correcting, finalizing to bring you several hours of modeling enjoyment.


We will... we all will. Can't wait to get mine.


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## ClubTepes (Jul 31, 2002)

I agree, WOW!


And these guys got some rockets into space??

I wonder how that is par for the course on tooling projects?

I feel like a chump for some of the critiques that I made.
Sadley though, it looks like ALL the battles weren't won.
It looks as though they didn't totally fix some stuff on the fronts of the nacelles.
The bottoms being too square and wide and the adding some 'radious' to a couple side areas towards the front of the nacelles (I thought that looked a hair goofy when I first looked at it but atributed it to being TOO contaminated by the AMT kit).

Tough battles Thomas, I'm glad you won as many as you did.
If PL DOES do a TOS E and DOESN'T have you and Gary involved, I can only shudder to think what we might get.


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## Psion (Apr 30, 2005)

Thomas, I've been dreaming of building this model for a very long time and can't wait to run out and buy it. But now, looking at the pictures you posted for fixes to the original, I keep seeing those wonderful engineering diagrams for the model in the background. Whom must I sacrifice on what alter to obtain a copy of those drawings? I'm serious -- I'd really like to purchase a set.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Offhand, since they were done as work for hire, I'd say those drawings are the property of PL/Racing Champions. Everything I draw at work is the property of ITT Industries - says so in my employment contract.

One of the other illustrators at work was once asked to create a cartoon character to use on posters throughout the building. After he developed it, the company dropped the idea. He asked if he could have ownership of the character himself so he could develop a cartoon strip for himself. The ITT lawyers said no way, it was developed on company time and he was paid by the company to create it. It's company property, period.

Reality is a bitch.


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## Rogue1 (Jan 3, 2000)

John P said:


> Offhand, since they were done as work for hire, I'd say those drawings are the property of PL/Racing Champions. Everything I draw at work is the property of ITT Industries - says so in my employment contract.
> 
> One of the other illustrators at work was once asked to create a cartoon character to use on posters throughout the building. After he developed it, the company dropped the idea. He asked if he could have ownership of the character himself so he could develop a cartoon strip for himself. The ITT lawyers said no way, it was developed on company time and he was paid by the company to create it. It's company property, period.
> 
> Reality is a bitch.


 Same here. I work at a small design shop and do work for UTC Sikorsky Aircraft (S/A).The drawings I do at work are property of UTC/S/A. One thing I found quite interesting is that if I design something, the engineer at S/A that wrote the tool order and is an employee of UTC S/A can patent my concept or design (if it's a new concept) as his own and S/A will have to pay him a fee to use the tool.

Nice huh?


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

Rogue1 said:


> Same here. I work at a small design shop and do work for UTC Sikorsky Aircraft (S/A).The drawings I do at work are property of UTC/S/A. One thing I found quite interesting is that if I design something, the engineer at S/A that wrote the tool order and is an employee of UTC S/A can patent my concept or design (if it's a new concept) as his own and S/A will have to pay him a fee to use the tool.
> 
> Nice huh?


I used to know a woman who did drafting for deep sea oil rig platforms and upgrades/repairs to oil refineries.

She constantly had engineers submit designs, which, if plans were drawn exactly as ordered by the engineers, would result in piping and flow problems that either would not physically work or worse would actually cause explosions! 

Even though she wasn't an engineer, she had to constantly redo them and then explain the reasons for what was essentially re-engineering(something she was not trained in or paid a penny to do).

If she didn't and just sent the draft requests back it would take months longer for the projects to be designed.

On top of that her managers make it clear to the drafters if they didn't fix the engineers' work and then explain and have them approve it they pretty much could hit the bricks(though they were carefull never to overtly say this).

So basically she had to do the work of people being paid ten times her salary, explain it to them and get their approval.

Then *THE ENGINEERS WOULD GET BONUSES* based on their designs not having to be reworked!!!

Even though they weren't the ones making the revisions, she was forced to make it seem like these incompetent people who, if left to their own devises would design equipment that would kill people, never made a mistake!

Then they got the bonuses and 100% of the credit!

Go figure.


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

POOP! I never wanted to do another Trek related project.......UNTIL NOW. I think I'll need 3 of these. 

Live Long and Model!


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## scifibear2 (Oct 19, 2003)

Ya know, I said this before, this kit is one of life's finer moments. We have been given a gift, and I appreciate it and am grateful for it. Guys! We have a model of a Starship that's almost three feet long! It has been lovingly poured over to be as faithfully reproduced as possible. What this is telling us is that despite petty bickering and/or bruised egos and hurt feelings, or assuming there are conflicts where none may actually exist, our hobby will survive, this is what it is about, those of us who love the hobby and want to carry it on. The production process, from concept to completion, is editing and refining, taking a broad spectrum and whittling it down and fine tuning it, and the more there is to develop, the more work it takes to get it right, period.

FANTASTIC JOB! This project was not tossed off. I was truly a labor of love for the subject. We have been given a GIFT! Embrace it, assemble it, relish it.


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## Thom S. (Sep 28, 2004)

Index removed.

I was lead to another message board where this index and separate images were linked to. I hope those who found the info useful have enjoyed them.

Sorry, I asked for only one thing when I made that index available. _You may post a link to this thread or the HobbyTalk board on another board, but *DO NOT LINK TO THIS FOLDER. DO NOT POST A DIRECT URL LINK TO THIS FOLDER ON ANY OTHER MESSAGE BOARD.*_ Apparently it was too much for some to handle.


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## Griffworks (Jun 24, 2002)

Damnit! Always somebody ruining it for everybody else!  

Good thing I saved all those pics to my Hd.


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## Steven Coffey (Jan 5, 2005)

Why can't people have respect for other people's work ? Now we all lose out ! Just because some one had to be a JERK !


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## norge71 (Apr 13, 2004)

One thing that is sorely missing today in people is a lack of respect for other people's property (intellectual or physical). Sorry to hear someone screwed it up for everyone, but like Griffworks, I saved those pics asap.


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## John Duncan (Jan 27, 2001)

This totally sucks! I just found this thread and needed some of that info..now it is gone forever!!

I can understand bandwidth theft though...my site has trouble with that too.


John

www.apollosaturn.com


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## uss_columbia (Jul 15, 2003)

I honored the "do not copy" and didn't save copies to my HD.  In fact, I only got around to looking at a dozen or so of these very interesting pics. I figured I could always come back to the others a bit later. It stinks when someone ruins it for everyone else.
Thomas: how about putting an index right here in this thread; that will keep anyone from linking to an index anywhere else and encourage them to link here.


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## Roguepink (Sep 18, 2003)

Thomas -- unfortunately, there are those of us who did not even get to see the images. Is there some other way you might make them available?


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## Fire_Storm20 (Mar 21, 2004)

Darn.  Stupid Idiots. Wish I had gotten here earlier.


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## JGG1701 (Nov 9, 2004)

Well , $*#@ !!!


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## Doggy (Jan 29, 2000)

My friend took me to a Trek convention once. At it, Ron Moore was there, talking about "Generations". Half way thru the Q&A it became apparent that a small but very vocal section of the audience had already gotten the script and were asking very plot specific questions.

Moore stopped the Q&A and said in no uncertain way that he wouldn't answer any more queries about the movie, as the damn thing wouldn't be out for several more months. Furthermore, it simply wasn't fair to the vast majority of folks there, who simply wanted to enjoy the film later.

Then he gestures to the next guy in the question line:

"OK, everyone got it? Right. Next question?".

Boom. The guy right away starts to ask a question about the movie. Not a hint of embarassment. Nothing. It was as though he hadn't heard a single word Ron had said mere seconds before. Truly bizzare.

Bottom line: Don't even bother never to ask someone not to do something. It's pointless.


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## JGG1701 (Nov 9, 2004)

It sorta reminds me of kindergarten class ! 
It only takes one person to spoil  it for everybody !


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## Lloyd Collins (Sep 25, 2004)

Respect! That is sometimes hard to find from some people! If anyone here or on the other boards as me to do or not to do something, I respect their wishes and do it. 

It is a shame to have to pull something off because of one? person. But the lesson here is to get what yiu can, before it is pulled off.


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## Genisis (Oct 2, 2003)

I have already apoligised to Thomas and I am apoligising to all of you.
Yes, I was the idiot who posted the link, I had forgotten Thomas's request not to (no excuse) and wanted to point out the amount of work Thomas had put into creating the best possible representation of the original studio model and prevent to the best of his abilities any "inaccuracies" in the kit (again, no excuse) 

It was my doing, and is completely my fault that the link has been removed and deprived those of you who either havent seen the pics yet or didnt save them. 

Sorry

Genisis


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## Steven Coffey (Jan 5, 2005)

It takes a man of honor to apologize ! For that I thank you if no one else does ! We all screw up not all of us have the integrity to say I'm sorry . I am sorry for calling you a jerk !Didn't even know who you where then .


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Yup. Apology noted and appreciated. 

Tom,there's yet another discussion about the engineering room at TrekBBS. I linked to the _thread _about your 1/12 scale set. I'm hoping some dope on TBBS doesn't pull a picture as an example and link to it. Fingers crossed.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

It was great while it lasted. I enjoyed studying the photographs and much more appreciate what Thomas went through in the creation process. It is an excellently engineered kit.


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## Thom S. (Sep 28, 2004)

Thank you Genisis for the apology. It is much appreciated.

Since I had started posting images of the Refit master on my website, the hits have grown to about 1200 unique hits per hour at peak hours. (Many from Japan!) That number slowly decreased, then spiked at the end of the year. Since the release of the kit, the hits have jumped up again. The data transfer has been in the gigs.

As I said before, I do not mind sharing. Please feel free to save any of the images you want. All I ask is that you do not publicly advertise your willingness to openly distribute my photos for the asking, or provide the link I made for HobbyTalk viewers on other message boards. That link is unique to HobbyTalk. I do not have it posted on my main site and I wish to keep it as is for now.

Thanks!

http://www.thomasmodels.com/refitfix/
(The images are back up.)


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## Sword of Whedon (Jul 5, 2004)

> Moore stopped the Q&A and said in no uncertain way that he wouldn't answer any more queries about the movie, as the damn thing wouldn't be out for several more months. Furthermore, it simply wasn't fair to the vast majority of folks there, who simply wanted to enjoy the film later.


I don't see the problem. They aren't going to have the chance to ask him these questions later. If you haven't gotten the script, you should go about getting it that way you can find out what happens. If people had done that for Nemesis they'd have seen there was a good movie in there somewhere 

What he should have done is say 

"All Generations questions for the end, that way all the masochists can leave and continue their self-torture"

And yes, this is coming from someone who buys his own Christmas presents because he never wants to be suprised.


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## Genisis (Oct 2, 2003)

Steven Coffey said:


> It takes a man of honor to apologize ! For that I thank you if no one else does ! We all screw up not all of us have the integrity to say I'm sorry . I am sorry for calling you a jerk !Didn't even know who you where then .


Thank you Steven
And thank you everyone else who responded. But mostly a heartfelt THANK YOU to Thomas for forgiving my mistake.
Thank you for putting them back up Thomas, you are definitly the greatest.

Unfortunetely, there is the other end of the spectrum, as witnessed in this email I recieved thru another site that truly disgusted me, sent to me by Culttvman, whom I have never dealt with, nor do I understand why he emailed me or stuck his nose in something of no concern to him:



> Not quite sure why you were appologizing. I don't think you did anything wrong in discussing and sharing the infromation. Mr. Sasser seems to me to be a bit paranoid.
> 
> Steve


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## Ignatz (Jun 20, 2000)

Thanks for reposting Thomas!


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## John Duncan (Jan 27, 2001)

Oooo...lets just let this go and be thankful that it was worked out.


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## Roguepink (Sep 18, 2003)

Ahh, thank you Mr. Sasser. Very interesting to see the process, how similar it is to what we all go through in the design process.


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## Lloyd Collins (Sep 25, 2004)

Glad the pictures are back up. We all make mistakes. Now that this is over, let's enjoy the pictures.


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## John Duncan (Jan 27, 2001)

After viewing the images, I wonder how you fix a steel tool? Do they weld it up and re-machine it to fix errors? Some of those fixes looked like big jobs with lots of change necessary.

John

www.apollosaturn.com


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## Steven Coffey (Jan 5, 2005)

I would imagine that the test dies are made of cheap aluminum so they can be easily thrown away. The first thing they would have to do is re-setup the CNC mill program with the changes needed . CNC Milling Machines run on CAD like programs that runs in steps to cut away material from a blank that will be the part . I am no expert on the model making process ,but I was a machinist so I know about that side of it.


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## Nova Designs (Oct 10, 2000)

Hahaha, I hadn't looked at these in so long... I forgot that you had some pics of my nacelle in there Thomas!


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## BATBOB (Jul 14, 2003)

I just looked at the pictures for the first time. WOW! That is attention to detail.

I have to admit that I'm still looking at my REFIT. I'm a bit intimidated to start it right now.

The torpedo tubes sure beats the sticker that came with my long lost original AMT smoothie.


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