# little bit of guidance



## EnzoF660 (Oct 6, 2010)

Hey all, I've been building random models since I was a kid and just recently built my first one in years just to see if I could. I was proud of it, albeit sloppy relative to the art I've seen some people post on here (I looked at a recent post of a F-22 Raptor and almost drooled).

The plane I just finished was a F-15E, unpainted without decals on it. You can clearly see some glue protruding from the seams. I'm meticulous but didn't think so much of it until I came onto this site.

My main interest is that of modern fighters/bombers with 200+ parts, most likely around 1/44 to 1/48 scale. I'm planning my next 2 endeavors for the F-117 and F-22. I came on here originally for some guidance on how to apply the water slide decals because I was having trouble doing so precisely (admittedly, somewhat for lack of proper tools). My main concern are the tiny decals such as the "No Step" ones that are applied to the control rods on the after burners (at least that's the case on mine) and ones like those. I've been practicing appling random decals to bombs and such that I didn't use so I can have an idea of what to expect in the actual project.

In my research, I've learned a lot of new things and techniques in modeling these planes that never occured to me before, so I just have some questions about some things that I'm curious about/would like some direct advice about:


- I think I just recently came onto the fact that there do exist tweezers with tiny heads that are actually capable of properly gripping a decal as I have to move it into place (better than the one I have now). Where might I be able to buy a very small one in stores? All I really need is tweezers and I can use a stuby toothpick to move the decal.

- What does paint thinner do exactly and what's its role in modeling these? From what I've gathered, I think it's used just to water down paints for various effects on models?

- For years, and into the last plane I did, I've been using the modeling glue that comes in those metal tube containers. To my knowledge, I never really knew of anything else, then I recently watched a tutorial video (posted on here) about a guy using an extremely water based glue. I wouldn't of even thought it _was_ glue if it wasn't labeled and he just applied it over the seams with a brush (as opposed to applying glue to the inside edges and the pasting them together) which seemed to do the trick. What's the deal with glues like that and can I use those in my larger scale (and heavier) jets. I'm fascinated with this one. 

- I've seen different techniques in terms of painting. Some videos (like the one mentioned above) uses a plastic clear coat (or something of that nature) that removes finger prints and he paints right over it (after it dries of course). I've also read of people using primers before painting. Difference? 

- On the same note, I see some people saying to gloss the surface where a decal will be placed first and some seem to ignore that step and it works fine for them. Again, difference?

- Last but not least, in general for the plastic associated with 1/44 models, which paints would you recommend to use? I'm thinking acrylics since they dry faster if I read correcetly. Otherwise what are the differences in paint types to that kind of plastic (since that's the only material I'll ever be working with probably)?


I'll leave it at that for now.  I apologize for the ridulous amount of questions and text, but like I said, I'm looking for some direct explanations as I've been surfing around for the last several hours including last night reading up on different techniques and such.

Thank you very much in advance to anyone who takes the time to answer. I will be much obliged.


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## Jafo (Apr 22, 2005)

1st check your local hobby shop then go here for tons of model related tools
http://www.micromark.com/
thinner: just as you surmised, thins paint for cleaning off brushes and making thin washes for weathering effects among others
id have to see the video of the glue to comment on it
again never heard of removing fingerprints with a coat of something, kind of confusing. got a link?
decals: silvering its called this shows the carrier the printing came on and looks bad. light bounces of flat surfaces and shows all the micro angles present and looks bad, a gloss(smooth) coat usually takes care of this so the decal looks painted on. Ignoring that step and having good results is usually just luck 
1/144th: scale doesnt matter with paint IMHO, just dont want to paint too thick so that it might obscure details


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## Ace Airspeed (May 16, 2010)

- I think I just recently came onto the fact that there do exist tweezers with tiny heads that are actually capable of properly gripping a decal as I have to move it into place (better than the one I have now). Where might I be able to buy a very small one in stores? All I really need is tweezers and I can use a stuby toothpick to move the decal.

_Micro Mark has a great variety of tweezers._ http://www.micromark.com/SearchResult.aspx?deptIdFilter=0&searchPhrase=tweezers

- What does paint thinner do exactly and what's its role in modeling these? From what I've gathered, I think it's used just to water down paints for various effects on models?

_Thinners are used for exactly hat - thinning the paints, and also for cleaning brushes. Some paints are rather thick out of the jar and are easier to work with if they're thinned a bit. If you use an airbrush, you will get intimately acquainted with thinners._

- For years, and into the last plane I did, I've been using the modeling glue that comes in those metal tube containers. To my knowledge, I never really knew of anything else, then I recently watched a tutorial video (posted on here) about a guy using an extremely water based glue. I wouldn't of even thought it was glue if it wasn't labeled and he just applied it over the seams with a brush (as opposed to applying glue to the inside edges and the pasting them together) which seemed to do the trick. What's the deal with glues like that and can I use those in my larger scale (and heavier) jets. I'm fascinated with this one. 

_There are lots of glues and adhesives you can use depending on the application. I use Tenax liquid glue applied through a needle appicator to basically weld the joints._ http://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/tnx/tnx100.htm
_You can most definitely use it on large and heavy models. I use a variety of glues - acrylic white glue for clear parts (dries water clear and doesn't fog the plastic like super glue), super glue for some small parts, regular tube glue, watch crystal cement for clear parts that need a strong bond (dries water clear), and even rubber cement._

- I've seen different techniques in terms of painting. Some videos (like the one mentioned above) uses a plastic clear coat (or something of that nature) that removes finger prints and he paints right over it (after it dries of course). I've also read of people using primers before painting. Difference? 

_I've never heard of a clear coat prior to painting. I do use primers at times, depending on the finish paint I'm using - like Alclad metallic paint. Primers have the advantage of proofing your seams - if a seam is bad you can rework the seam and re-prime. A critical step in painting is to wash the plastic prior to painting. There are mold release agents on the plastic that hinder paint adhesion._

- On the same note, I see some people saying to gloss the surface where a decal will be placed first and some seem to ignore that step and it works fine for them. Again, difference?

_A smooth surface is vital for a decal to lay down. I'll gloss coat the model prior to decaling, gloss again after decaling, and finish with a clear flat if the finish is to be flat. These layers sandwich the decal and make it look painted on._

- Last but not least, in general for the plastic associated with 1/44 models, which paints would you recommend to use? I'm thinking acrylics since they dry faster if I read correcetly. Otherwise what are the differences in paint types to that kind of plastic (since that's the only material I'll ever be working with probably)?

_Acrylics, enamels, and lacquers are fine for plastic. Acrylics don't dry any faster than a fast drying enamel or lacquer, but they have the advantage of being water soluble and easy to clean up after. It's hard to recommend a particular paint. Every builder has their favorites and I work with several types._

I know this is kind of general, but I hope this helps you out. I'm sure there will be other responses here..................there are some very talented builders on this forum.


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## EnzoF660 (Oct 6, 2010)

I can't post the link yet since I'm so new so I will put it immediately in my next post. But...

It was posted by another member of this forum and I got it from that topic. Right at the beginning of the second video is where you see him literally painting the liquid glue on which was very interesting to me and I was wondering what exactly it was and what it was capable of holding.

Then in the 4th video at about 2:30 you see he uses "plastic prep" which removes the grease and fingerprints and such. That's what I was referring to by a "clear coat" of some kind but I see now it's not really a painting coat. I guess it serves a whole different purpose.


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## EnzoF660 (Oct 6, 2010)

http://monsterhobbies.webs.com/learntobuildamodel.htm


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## Ace Airspeed (May 16, 2010)

Right at the beginning of the second video is where you see him literally painting the liquid glue on which was very interesting to me and I was wondering what exactly it was and what it was capable of holding.

_Capillary action draws the liquid cement down the seams when he's applying it. Liquid glue softens and literally welds the parts together. If done properly, the joint is very strong_

Then in the 4th video at about 2:30 you see he uses "plastic prep" which removes the grease and fingerprints and such. That's what I was referring to by a "clear coat" of some kind but I see now it's not really a painting coat.

_On that video, it look like he's already applied the silver base coat and is painting the roundel insignias._


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## EnzoF660 (Oct 6, 2010)

My last real concern is in terms of painting and decaling helping. For something like a modern jet fighther (with all the armaments and random orifices everywhere), how would be the best way to paint it, assuming I go out and buy a brush set and airbrush? I know it would be near impossible to paint it all over after it's done, right?

Would I have to paint the smaller tucked away pieces while they're on the sprues and generally still separate (like the missles, too)? Then I assume I would mask off certain pieces to airbrush the larger and broader sections.

Should I follow the same rule for decaling? Place decals onto tiny surfaces while they're still unattached?

Again thank you for any detailed responses because I haven't found anything definitively helping in the particular process. Assembling and then painting is all well and good for a WWII fighter but I know that painting everything over after full assembly won't cut it with these (F-15, MiG, Raptor, F-117, etc.)


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## Ace Airspeed (May 16, 2010)

For something like a modern jet fighther (with all the armaments and random orifices everywhere), how would be the best way to paint it, assuming I go out and buy a brush set and airbrush? I know it would be near impossible to paint it all over after it's done, right?

_A loaded question and generally a matter of builder's preference, but here's how I have done it:

-Assemble the main airframe structure and fill the seams

-Identify parts that are painted the same airframe colors - gear doors, pylons. speed brakes, etc and paint them separately but in the same pass as the main structure. Just figure out a way to hold them for painting

Mask off the cockpit, gear wells, and any other areas that are not going to painted the same color as the main finish

Paint the the main structure and ancillary parts. _

Would I have to paint the smaller tucked away pieces while they're on the sprues and generally still separate (like the missles, too)? Then I assume I would mask off certain pieces to airbrush the larger and broader sections.

_You are basically correct, but I prefer to not paint parts on the sprues - you still have to remove them, trim flash, and touch up. I prfer to remove the parts from the sprue, hold them by their locator pins with an alligator clip or something like that, and paint them.

As for missiles and other outside stores, I treat them like "mini kits". I build them up and paint them all on their own._

Should I follow the same rule for decaling? Place decals onto tiny surfaces while they're still unattached?

_It depends on the parts. If they are easily accessible on the main build, I'll decal them when I do the main structure. For other parts like armament, I'll decal and finish them before they get added to the main structure.

As you progress, you will find that building a model in advanced ways is an exercise in risk management and determining build / paint procedures. You will have to deviate in large ways from the kit's assembly instructions sequence to accomodate painting and assembly. That's one of the reasons I love building models - it's not a blind exercise, but one constant decision making process._


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## EnzoF660 (Oct 6, 2010)

Thank you very much Ace. I do understand that the process and procedures are different from builder to builder but you gave me exactly what I was looking for: a general idea of how to approach it all in a realistic and practical manner. Now I can actually go get started on my next project with a little more confidence albeit, a bit timid still. I'm sure I'll find my own niche and fill in the gaps from here in a manner comfortable for me.

Again, thank you very much for the helpful answers and prior links.


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## Ace Airspeed (May 16, 2010)

I'm glad I could help you out, Enzo. Post some pics of the build once you get rolling.


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## EnzoF660 (Oct 6, 2010)

Well unfortunately, it might be a little while before I can get the money together to invest in an airbrush, compressor, and the other small things necessary to put the thing together. I wanna go out and buy the next kit already, but it's near pointless until i can get my hands on other stuff. But I certainly will post pics once I get around to it. Won't be nearly as neat as the others I've seen on here (I aspire to that F-22 on the first page), but I'll get there.


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## Medic17 (Jul 25, 2010)

Just a suggestion ( Testors I think) makes an airbrush that runs off of areosole cans. I have not used this product, but it did catch my eye when I was a local craft store. $20 bucks.


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## Ace Airspeed (May 16, 2010)

Enzo,

Do what you can with what you have for now. Build smaller inexpensive kits to hone your skills, but don't put off building all together until you have all of the good modeling gear. 

Just have fun and experiment - you'll learn a lot...............and I learn new things every model I build......even with all of the "good gear".


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## EnzoF660 (Oct 6, 2010)

One more question that's been eating at me from when I tried to test it out on the remains of my F-15 model. How in the hell do you apply those very long, thin decals to any surface? My obvious problem is that as I try to, I may only get a piece of it on while the rest of it is still on the paper. I can't understand how to smoothly and continuously apply those long strips.


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## Ace Airspeed (May 16, 2010)

Make sure the surface receiving the decal is smooth and shiny. Wet the surface liberally. When you soak the decal, make sure it slides off easily. Place the decal paper on the surface, slide one end of the decal off and hold it in place with a cotton swab or toothpick. *Carefully* slide the decal paper away along the length of where the decal is supposed to placed. Make sure that the decal paper is wet enough that the decal slides easily or you can possibly tear the decal. If you do tear the decal, it's not a show stopper. Just keep applying the other part and work them once the pieces are on the model. If done right, you will never see the tear. I've done this many times with stubborn walkway decals.

Once the decal is down on the model, re-wet it if needed to gently work it into place. Once it is in place, wick off the excess water with the end of a paper towel and gently brush on decal setting solution. I like to use Micro Sol.

Let it dry and viola!


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## scottnkat (May 11, 2006)

well said, Ace - that's exactly what I do as well (even down to the MicroSol). ;-)


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## EnzoF660 (Oct 6, 2010)

Well that certainly confirmed what I thought...there's no easy way (relatively) to get those long, thin ones onto the models. Going to have to practice that several times over I see haha. Once again Ace, thank you for the help. I'll be sure to come back with any more questions as I'm going to start work soon on the Revell SR-71 1/72.


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## Ace Airspeed (May 16, 2010)

Thanks, Scott. 

Enzo, feel free to ask any questions you want to. If I can't help you out, there are other more skilled modelers than I here to assist you.


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