# Lipo's already looking like NIHM's....???



## me21 (Nov 7, 2003)

Does anyone else notice that Lipo's already are starting to look like Nihm's......

First 2400mah
Then 3200Mah
Then 3400Mah...Ect Ect
Now 5000Mah +

Why Dosn't someone out there put a stop to all these crap? We should still be at 3200Mah, and that would of been fine for years......

What happened to the days where MOD racers could learn how to make time, Instead of Companies making batteries just for them few, what 10% of the racers?

and dont forget with each increase comes an increase in price,


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## swtour (Oct 8, 2001)

me21,

Not quite true.

When WE (J.B. and I) worked on putting a single LIPO class together (WE) agreed to use the ORION 3200. That was NOT the biggest, nor the ONLY battery on the market.

When I talked (via email) to Rick Hohwart (then with ORION, now with Team Associated) it was said that we could count on the 3200 staying around for a min. of 1 year. After Rick left PEAK/ORION I had a similar email w/ Cliff Black from ORION and had the same gaurantee. That YEAR came...and WENT, as did ARCOR...but WE are still using the ORION 3200 for the remainder of the '08 Season...and although discontinued by the MFG. these batteries are still available both NEW and USED.

I don't know what the rest of the r/c OVAL world is doing for the Future...but the SWTour Series will have an announcement in probably less than two weeks as to the direction we are going...and as a sneak peek, I will say - it will be a (3) year DEAL!


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## me21 (Nov 7, 2003)

swtour said:


> me21,
> 
> Not quite true.
> 
> ...


I like the 3 year deal, Then it makes this Lipo talk all that much better, 's 
Maybe other Org's can follow suit. It was bad enough when 6 months later I had to run out and buy some 40.00 Nihm's because they got bigger and better, But to run out and buy a 120.00 pack because they have bigger and better would suck.....


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## chuck_thehammer (Oct 24, 2007)

and this is why many of us are staying with 27T 4 cell 4600s...

every week it is something new and who has a $3,000 racing account.
21.5 17.5 13.5 etc... lipo what of the week,

I hope to have FUN racing this season, If I have to get brushless and lipo I will, but until somethings are set and will not change of a year or 2.

Chuck


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## Robertw321 (Apr 26, 2002)

chuck_thehammer said:


> every week it is something new and who has a $3,000 racing account.21.5 17.5 13.5 etc... lipo what of the week,
> Chuck


21.5 Novak, 3200 SMC pack (3200 Orion for those of us that still have them) BRL rules. Done! Danny has guaranteed the SMC 3200 will be around, unchanged, for several years. I'm sure Novak will make the 21.5 for as long as we buy them. With the explosion of VTA that shouldn't be a problem. Stability!


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## iroczcec (Jan 3, 2006)

lipo rules i tried racing 4 cell nimh and could never get the consistency out of them as with the 3200 lipo pack it really evens the field!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## BRhodes (Feb 13, 2007)

Robertw321 said:


> 21.5 Novak, 3200 SMC pack (3200 Orion for those of us that still have them) BRL rules. Done! Danny has guaranteed the SMC 3200 will be around, unchanged, for several years. I'm sure Novak will make the 21.5 for as long as we buy them. With the explosion of VTA that shouldn't be a problem. Stability!



Excellent point! I hope I NEVER have to go back to brushed motors or Nimh cells.


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## CClay1282 (Jan 5, 2006)

BRhodes said:


> Excellent point! I hope I NEVER have to go back to brushed motors or Nimh cells.


AMEN!


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## swtour (Oct 8, 2001)

chuck_thehammer said:


> this is why many of us are staying with 27T 4 cell 4600s...


Personally, I think that is COOL as long as there is a group who still run that combo - with the NEWER Nimh's, a lot of the issues brought about by the CRAPPY 4200's have been cured...

I think 27t/4cell makes a great 'Entry' class too. Usually, the entry level guys don't beat each other up too bad with TOP technology...and most won't run this combo at a full capability...they can also usually get away with inexpensive batteries and motors.


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## 67-4-fun (Feb 23, 2004)

I know that everybody has a different opinion on this subject depending on your situation, but for me comparing brushed nimh to lipo brushless, there is none!!! but for me not nessisarly for everyone, one lipo and one brushless system will get you pretty competive across the board, you don't have to buy three or four nimh packs every six months, go through rebuild brushed motors to be competive,{ like I used too} just to keep up and that's with a good setup. to me lipo B/l is so much easier to take care of and the performance will be the same weekend and week out without a bunch of maintance hasles.. And if you do the math, go figure how much you spent on brushed stuff with the nimh packs and compare it to a lipo,b/L system and see how they compare.. I would be willing to bet I spent more money before than I would now to be running up front!!!! and yet the products last alot longer.. for me anyway.. Just my 2

JP


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## katf1sh (Jan 17, 2002)

amen bruther! lipo brushless! 

who can afford fresh nimhs every 2 months to run up front?


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## CClay1282 (Jan 5, 2006)

katf1sh said:


> amen bruther! lipo brushless!
> 
> who can afford fresh nimhs every 2 months to run up front?


LOL, exactly. 

Well said jon. I agree 100%


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## katf1sh (Jan 17, 2002)

it is up to the race promoter at your track to put a cap on the mah rating. you can't point fingers at the technology...tell the track owner you would like to see a limit.


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## nitro4294 (Oct 15, 2004)

Until someone develops a LIPO that will replace a 4 cell nmih, I'm sticking with that set up.
Don't say lipo with a 21.5 brushless because a 2 cell lipo will not fit a 12th scale road car.
I don't know were you guys race, but at the track I do, you don't need to rebuild motors after each run and buy new batteries every 2 months to be competitive. I run 3 to 4 year old 3300's and run with the best of them. Ya know, sometimes its about set up and handling and not about having the latest and greatest gear.
Thats my opinion and you will most likely disagree.


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## 67-4-fun (Feb 23, 2004)

nitro4294 said:


> Until someone develops a LIPO that will replace a 4 cell nmih, I'm sticking with that set up.
> Don't say lipo with a 21.5 brushless because a 2 cell lipo will not fit a 12th scale road car.
> I don't know were you guys race, but at the track I do, you don't need to rebuild motors after each run and buy new batteries every 2 months to be competitive. I run 3 to 4 year old 3300's and run with the best of them. Ya know, sometimes its about set up and handling and not about having the latest and greatest gear.
> Thats my opinion and you will most likely disagree.


I understand!!!! I do believe that Danny at SMC has a split lipo pack for 1/12 scale cars.. if you wanted to run a lipo you might check it out...https://www.ssl-stormerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/seekpart.pl?src=ns&pn=SMC4925SP and one is all you need with lipo!!!


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## ta_man (Apr 10, 2005)

67-4-fun said:


> I understand!!!! I do believe that Danny at SMC has a split lipo pack for 1/12 scale cars.. if you wanted to run a lipo you might check it out...https://www.ssl-stormerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/seekpart.pl?src=ns&pn=SMC4925SP and one is all you need with lipo!!!


That's not for 1/12th scale unless you were using 6 cell saddle packs in your 1/12th. That is for things like the B44 and XX-4.


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## swtour (Oct 8, 2001)

nitro4294 said:


> Until someone develops a LIPO that will replace a 4 cell nmih, I'm sticking with that set up.
> Don't say lipo with a 21.5 brushless because a 2 cell lipo will not fit a 12th scale road car.
> I don't know were you guys race, but at the track I do, you don't need to rebuild motors after each run and buy new batteries every 2 months to be competitive. I run 3 to 4 year old 3300's and run with the best of them. Ya know, sometimes its about set up and handling and not about having the latest and greatest gear.
> Thats my opinion and you will most likely disagree.


Where I race (Locally), OLD packs run fine too (at the local club level), but the SERIES I promote...you had better have GOOD STUFF, cause the competition level is MUCH HIGHER and much more intense.

I wouldn't try going to the SNOWBIRDS and expecting to be competitive w/ OLD 3300's. (It's all about WHAT and WHO you are competing against.)


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## Robertw321 (Apr 26, 2002)

nitro4294 said:


> Until someone develops a LIPO that will replace a 4 cell nmih, I'm sticking with that set up.
> Don't say lipo with a 21.5 brushless because a 2 cell lipo will not fit a 12th scale road car.
> I don't know were you guys race, but at the track I do, you don't need to rebuild motors after each run and buy new batteries every 2 months to be competitive. I run 3 to 4 year old 3300's and run with the best of them. Ya know, sometimes its about set up and handling and not about having the latest and greatest gear.
> Thats my opinion and you will most likely disagree.


This thread is probably in the wrong section. As near as I can tell, except for you, all of the posts are from oval racers.

Oval racing, where voltage and fresh motors are king.


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## iroczcec (Jan 3, 2006)

nitro4294 said:


> Until someone develops a LIPO that will replace a 4 cell nmih, I'm sticking with that set up.
> Don't say lipo with a 21.5 brushless because a 2 cell lipo will not fit a 12th scale road car.
> I don't know were you guys race, but at the track I do, you don't need to rebuild motors after each run and buy new batteries every 2 months to be competitive. I run 3 to 4 year old 3300's and run with the best of them. Ya know, sometimes its about set up and handling and not about having the latest and greatest gear.
> Thats my opinion and you will most likely disagree.


you might be able to do that in 1/12 road racing but in 1/10 oval if your not running good fresh batteries and rebuilt motor your not running up front!


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## iroczcec (Jan 3, 2006)

here is a perfect example i ran 4 cell stock with some of the best motors i could get my hands on and some pretty good 4200 match packs best lap time i could run 3.9 and 4.0 i took the same chasis put a wide cot body on it and 21.5 lipo and could run consistent 3.8 and 3.9 with a couple 3.7's on the same track now you tell me that doesnt level the playing field!


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## CClay1282 (Jan 5, 2006)

Thats apples and oranges. Now the real test would be the same motor, then run some old 3800's then run new 4600's and see what the difference is. I picked up a good 2 tenths a lap by switching to some new 4200 versus my old 3800's last year.


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## katf1sh (Jan 17, 2002)

i dunno the smc single cell lipo is sweeet and there is alot of talk on rc tech about it taking 12th onroad by storm this year.


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## CClay1282 (Jan 5, 2006)

katf1sh said:


> i dunno the smc single cell lipo is sweeet and there is alot of talk on rc tech about it taking 12th onroad by storm this year.


It is a sweet pack. Should work very well for 1/12th. I am going to try it in a customworks with a 10.5 at my local track.


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## Mars Rover 1 (Oct 7, 2008)

I tried it with my 10.5 and I will never go back. It has just enough punch to get things moving but not to much that you are out of control.


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## CClay1282 (Jan 5, 2006)

Mars Rover 1 said:


> I tried it with my 10.5 and I will never go back. It has just enough punch to get things moving but not to much that you are out of control.


What kind of speeds did you have? 17.5 4 cell, or 13.5 4 cell? Or in between. just curious because we currently run 17.5 4 cell on a bullring track and i wanted to try the single cell 10.5 and see how it does to get away from nimhs.


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## katf1sh (Jan 17, 2002)

glad to see you guys are loving the single cell smc lipo


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## reggie's dad (Sep 14, 2006)

SW tour for a look at lipo futures in dirt racing take a look at dirt oval.com's new rule package, it's on their site under rules. :dude:


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## swtour (Oct 8, 2001)

reggie's dad,

The dirt oval track nearest to me (which has a large bi-weekly dirt oval turnout) just went the other way with THEIR Lipo rules.

If I read their rule correctly, they are now allowing ANY "Hard Cased" Lipo 7.4v battery, and ANY mfg's motor that fits the WIND for a specific class.

OUR series will be very specific I believe...we will most likely go the route of the 3400 mAh.


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## reggie's dad (Sep 14, 2006)

It all looks good to me (BL/LIPO) but the rules for DODC seem to be angering many? :dude:


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## swtour (Oct 8, 2001)

> but the rules for DODC seem to be angering many?


Funny thing is - if they are interested in THE BEST RACING - they would embrace and love it... but RACING isn't about RACING anymore...it's about POLITICS and toeing the Corporate line...and SELLING products.

We locked in for '08 using strictly NOVAK B/L motors and ORION 3200 LIPOS...and while NOTHING you can do makes competition EVEN cause their will always be better setup guys and better drivers... The RACING has been some of THE BEST I've ever seen across the lines with sponsored and non-sponsored drivers.


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## Manimal517 (Sep 7, 2008)

i have yet to make the switch to brushless and lipo's, fortunitly i have more brains than money or unfortunitly, depending on how you look at it. i have found classes at track in my area where i'm competive with my 2 year old spec packs and 3300 nimh packs. if you ask me the club racer and those in the hobby for fun need not spend the money on lipo's and brushless systems to be competive.


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## swtour (Oct 8, 2001)

> if you ask me the club racer and those in the hobby for fun need not spend the money on lipo's and brushless systems to be competive.


WHO ASKED YOU? Just Kidding 

I agree 100% Club racing is just that - and as long as their is a group running 'Old School' equipment - KEEP IT ALIVE as long as possible.

For me the LIPO switch made sense at the time of the switch - NiMh's were all used up and I was in the market for NEW ones. The brushless deal was kind of the same way...

In both cases, I've bought mostly USED equipment and got it for a great price....plus sold off some old equipment to help off-set the cost.


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## Jesse Bean (Sep 26, 2004)

paully won mod at roar nationals with an IP3800 runnin against 5000s.

already heard some people complaining bout packs self-discharged or maybe came in week. they had some new 3200s had 200 sec runtime


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## brian0525 (Jan 17, 2005)

Jesse Bean said:


> already heard some people complaining bout packs self-discharged or maybe came in week. they had some new 3200s had 200 sec runtime



who is they? what brand?


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## 420 Tech R/C (Sep 15, 2006)

Manimal517 said:


> i have yet to make the switch to brushless and lipo's, fortunitly i have more brains than money or unfortunitly, depending on how you look at it. i have found classes at track in my area where i'm competive with my 2 year old spec packs and 3300 nimh packs. if you ask me the club racer and those in the hobby for fun need not spend the money on lipo's and brushless systems to be competive.


dude , if you have to look for classes where you will be competitive with your old gear, it's time to upgrade.I tried that exact same philosophy with 1/12 club racing last year. After a few races I quickly decided it was time for some new batteries.My 3300's just wouldnt hold a candle to guys running 4200's.I made the switch and went from finishing in the top 3 of the B to finishing 1st in the A.EVERY WEEK..as for the BL vs. brushed thing, I fought that tooth and nail until I drove one.Now aall my stuff is BL, and I wont run anywhere that I have to run a brushed motor.The no maintenance aspect just leaves way more time for stuff like chassis tuning, and actually making sure the car is sound.


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## nitro4294 (Oct 15, 2004)

You all make valid points. The 12th scale chassis I use will not take a saddle pack so lipo is out of the question for now.I have seen reports on a single cell lipo which would be great, but as far as I know its not on the market yet. I do not race on a Snowbirds level so that point, though a good one, is irrelevant. Everybody keeps talking about the long range cost comparison, but to me its a matter of the up front cost. I can not shell out hundreds of dollars for the latest and greatest gear.$200 plus brushless systems and $80.00 plus lipo batteries are out of my budget for now. I DO NOT purchase new batteries every 2 months(most of mine are 2 to 3 years old) and DO NOT rebuild motors every week and can stay competitive with the group I race with, simply because we all are running the same basic set up. I also do not have a problem with the maintenance aspects of all this.
PLEASE don't take me wrong, I think brushless and lipo are the future in this game.It is just that I am not able to fork out the cash right now nor does anybody offer a set up that will work for me.I have gone the lipo route for my dirt oval racing and will be getting a brushless set up as well,but nothing is available for my on road set up.(I do not run 10th scale carpet oval)
Thank you all for the great info, I am looking into a used brushless set up right now and can't wait to try it. I have heard great things about it.


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## jflack (Apr 27, 2002)

nitro4294 said:


> Until someone develops a LIPO that will replace a 4 cell nmih, I'm sticking with that set up.
> Don't say lipo with a 21.5 brushless because a 2 cell lipo will not fit a 12th scale road car.
> I don't know were you guys race, but at the track I do, you don't need to rebuild motors after each run and buy new batteries every 2 months to be competitive. I run 3 to 4 year old 3300's and run with the best of them. Ya know, sometimes its about set up and handling and not about having the latest and greatest gear.
> Thats my opinion and you will most likely disagree.


If ur having fun, speed really doesn't matter.........


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## Team T2C (Oct 14, 2008)

BRhodes said:


> Excellent point! I hope I NEVER have to go back to brushed motors or Nimh cells.


Well, I am Really new to this and I know brhodes, I do not have any experience that you all have.But it seems to me that with anything new, there will be 5 years of "new items" especially in the Lipo area. Mainly due to the search for new battery tech for full size cars.

For me a simple approach for a NEW to the sport Starter is a 4 cell Brushed motor. Seems alot less money for the new average racer.

I have many years experience in many different motorsports, and I can tell you the best thing that happened in RC that i can see is the RTR kits.

I believe that if you all want to grow this sport, There should be RTR kit classes, One Manufacture of battery (lipo or other).

Create a Poll look at a few manufactures and give them the details, Make them conform to grow the sport.

The Sport could really take off if they manufactured real SPEC RTR kits (everything needed to start in the sport and take those manufactures and make a spec class.

Get with a Battery Manuafacture, Have them manufacture a sealed battery that is approved. If it is modified it will show. 

This will make it easy on people like me that are trying to get involed in this sport. I would run right out and buy a spec RTR car, a Spec Batt and Go race. 

Technology is going to grow ever second of the day, and you are going to be chasing it. Just look at computers. Unless you drop about 8K on a laptop you will need a new one ever 1.5 years. If you drop the big bucks you may get 2.5 years before it is out dated.


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