# Building working landing gear for the Moebius Jupiter 2



## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

Well, this is another of my rambling on threads. I have been contemplating two different methods of making the gear work on the J2. 

The first is a "Jack Shaft" system. It's a threaded rod and moving block (which has threads to match the rod) and will take up very little space and not weigh very much either. This method allows the gear to stay where they are positioned with the power off. 

The second method is a Lazy Susan type thing powered by one high torque servo. This method works with pulleys and springs and such and is kind of cluttered but is easier from a fabrication standpoint. 

The next set of problems to address is what to do with the footpads and "hydraulic ram". The footpads need to be modified to stay aligned while pivoting, and the leg itself has to have a pivot bracket and control arm added which will add strength and because the part is made in a jig, the parts will all be interchangeable. 

Last thoughts/ramblings...

Supporting the model. This will require some sort of attachment inside the model so as allow the upper hull to still be removed but hold the 3 wires, strings, or whatever tight. My model will have an RC receiver inside and a battery or two and some servos, possibly up to 3 of the pricey lil suckers.

I will start posting pictures as I actually go through the testing and construction of this project. I will also put the mechanical fusion core stuff in this thread so you can see a method to the madness.


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## m jamieson (Dec 18, 2008)

I figured I would see the landing gear thread move to this forum! lol The "how to put the Jupiter 2 back in the box thread can go on and on...but not a landing gear thread, only made it to twelve posts. Well I for one am looking forward to seeing your build on this Y3a!


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

This is already fascinating! More, please!


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

The rest of you guys can chime in with your 'working landing gear' photos n stuff. This isn't a contest. I HOPE we can all learn and try someone elses approach in the effort. 

Question: Should model WHILE ON THE BOOM and with counterweight be able to support itself? This question is only valid IF I don't do the JackShaft.


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

I'm subscribed to this one! This info will be easily adapted to any model for almost any purpose.


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

Y3a said:


> ...Question: Should model WHILE ON THE BOOM and with counterweight be able to support itself?...


I presume you're asking if the _landing gear_ should support the model. Under the conditions you describe, what difference does it make? Manipulating the boom, one can simulate the shock absorber effect of the landing gear. But that can be built into a locking gear, also.


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

For those who need to see the leg in it's various positions, for clearance, HERE IS a Toyroy/Y3a picture of the actual leg, photoshopped into 3 line drawings of the J2 hull to see the position of the 'real' Hero leg during retraction/extension.



And back of real HERO gear leg...


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## modelnutz (Sep 21, 2009)

Edited due to stupidity on my part.....nothing to see here.....move along.....


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## teslabe (Oct 20, 2007)

modelnutz said:


> Just did a bit of measuring and drawing using actual kit parts as reference.
> Here's what I've found so far.
> 
> A simple hinge point at the base of the leg will not work.
> ...


Did you mean to post some drawings?


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## modelnutz (Sep 21, 2009)

Actually, I kinda jumped the gun...I'm gonna take a bit more time to sort it out....please disreguard that last post as the ramblings of a mad man :freak:

I did, however find that the post gets in the way of the gear going all the way in to their wells. May need to cut the slot in the top of the gear bay so there's more room. I don't think that there's room inside the model for the post to pass through into the upper deck as in the above diagram....can someone confirm ?


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

The Hero gear wells are just the side parts. There is no wall at the back end, just a bracket the leg screws onto. The sides are not symmetrical either. each gear well side is different. I think it has to do with the internal attach points for suspending the model and the fact the pad door has to slide sideways. I plan to completly remove the original gear wall details off the hull and replace them with correct to the "Real" Hero ones. 
 

There is also the "A" frame inside and over the wells which has that pulley wheel at the top. Those will not be reproduced in my version. 


I plan on doing th pad doors just like the Hero. It IS the best solution to the problem. The rail will be brass and the parts will mostly be metal, except for the pad door itself.


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

In the Moebius kit, how is the pad attached to the shock strut? Is it anything like a hinge?


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## teslabe (Oct 20, 2007)

toyroy said:


> In the Moebius kit, how is the pad attached to the shock strut? Is it anything like a hinge?


This is how it is, no joint at the pad, just at the stair case.


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

teslabe said:


> This is how it is, no joint at the pad, just at the stair case.


Wow, great illustration, Teslabe! :thumbsup: Question: what are the two holes in the strut for?

As for the hero pad, it is hinged parallel to the hinge at the foot of the stairs. You can see this in landing shots. As the gear begins to deploy, you can see the pad is parallel to the hull. It stays in the same relative attitude with respect to the gear leg, resulting in a toe-down position at full deployment, until touchdown.


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## teslabe (Oct 20, 2007)

toyroy said:


> Wow, great illustration, Teslabe! :thumbsup: Question: what are the two holes in the strut for?
> 
> As for the hero pad, it is hinged parallel to the hinge at the foot of the stairs. You can see this in landing shots. As the gear begins to deploy, you can see the pad is parallel to the hull. It stays in the same relative attitude with respect to the gear leg, resulting in a toe-down position at full deployment, until touchdown.


Thank you toyroy, have no clue about the two holes...... As for the pad on the hero, I would think it was setup to move forward and back but not side to side so it would move into the well without hitting the sides when it was retracted, just a thought....


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

teslabe said:


> ...As for the pad on the hero, I would think it was setup to move forward and back but not side to side so it would move into the well without hitting the sides when it was retracted, just a thought....


I agree. You can't actually _see_ the pad connection to the strut. One might _imagine_ it possessed the ability to adjust sideways- perhaps against the force of return springs. But, what alien spacecraft controller would give those nice Robinsons anything but a perfectly flat, conveniently marked parking space? :wave:


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## Paulbo (Sep 16, 2004)

The hero miniature had a different connection between the hydralic rod and the landing pad. The hero has a ball joint so the pad can swivel a bit.


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

Paulbo said:


> ...The hero has a ball joint so the pad can swivel a bit.


Really? So, who got the job of turning the pads, so they fit back in the gear bays?


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

THAT is the MOST IMPORTANT THING TO DEAL WITH IN ANY WORKING GEAR. The footpads MUST, and mean MUST not rotate. They MUST stay aligned to the bottom of the leg. Use a very thin steel wire to 'make sure' if you need to. 

Toyroy, you must have a spatial and mechanical aptitude thats off the charts.


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## Paulbo (Sep 16, 2004)

I shouldn't have said "swivel" - I meant that the pads could likely pivot so that they would sit squarely on the ground even if it's uneven.


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

Here's a another practical question on this idea: display. 

In order for the LG to work, the ship must be suspended. If suspended on wire, then the internal motion will throw the model around it's suspension point. If held by yourself a buddy, the effect is instantly ruined. If put on it's back, legs up, then the effect is somewhat dashed as well. I'm seeing the only option as a strong, and I mean steel, rod stuck through the model side somwhere to hold it above the ground. I guess you could stick it up the middle bottom just above the foot pad so that it gives a hover effect. 

While this actuated LG is a very cool notion and one I will follow, it is of very little practical use, no? I mean if you wanna switch between having it landed or in-flight, you could simply work the legs yourself far easier.

Don't wanna rain on parades or stir up a fight, but on a logical view, the work involved seems exceptional for the exceptionally lmited use of the device.


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

Paulbo said:


> I shouldn't have said "swivel" - I meant that the pads could likely pivot so that they would sit squarely on the ground even if it's uneven.


If you insist on allowing pad movement to the side, you'll need a reliable return mechanism on all three pads. Like Mark(Y3a) was saying, as the gear closes, the pad must be correctly oriented. It not only has to clear the hull, but also the pad doors.


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

Y3a said:


> ...Toyroy, you must have a spatial and mechanical aptitude thats off the charts.


Thank you, but _you're_ the one who unravelled the mysteries of the J2 landing gear.


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## Paulbo (Sep 16, 2004)

toyroy said:


> If you insist on allowing pad movement to the side...


Ah, I get it now. You didn't actually read my post. I said THE HERO MINIATURE has a ball and socket joint there and not the accordian joint of the full sized set.


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## teslabe (Oct 20, 2007)

Made that point in post#9. The pad can move forward and back but not side to side.... Not too many rocks on a sound stage if the hero can't handle them, always looked nice and flat to me.


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

Model Man said:


> In order for the LG to work, the ship must be suspended. If suspended on wire, then the internal motion will throw the model around it's suspension point.


ONLY IF the mechanics move from one side to the other in the process of raising/lowering the gear. This doesn't show in practice as the model is being moved on a boom and the 'extra motion' if present, would be very little and not enough to move the model on the wires. Using a jackshaft, or seperate servos the motion would NOT be visible. I know, having tested this on my 2 foot Lunar Models J2.


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

Paulbo said:


> Ah, I get it now. You didn't actually read my post. I said THE HERO MINIATURE has a ball and socket joint...


I _did_ understand that you were speaking of the hero miniature. I have not personally seen it, although I know that it has undergone several radical transformations since the show. My study of the landing gear has been focused on the show footage, which nowhere indicates a ball joint.

Do _you_ understand that a ball joint would be inconsistent with the operation of a working gear? If the pad is swiveled or tilted, when the gear is closing it will interfere with the hull or prevent the pad doors from closing. 

The only way a ball and socket joint would work would be if it had a spring return mechanism. You can build a model with that, but the hero never had it, or needed it.


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

Model Man said:


> ...While this actuated LG is a very cool notion and one I will follow, it is of very little practical use, no? I mean if you wanna switch between having it landed or in-flight, you could simply work the legs yourself far easier.
> 
> Don't wanna rain on parades or stir up a fight, but on a logical view, the work involved seems exceptional for the exceptionally lmited use of the device.


This topic is for hard-core Jupiter 2 fans. I think you'll find there are more of us than you might expect.


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

I have a question about the jackshaft system: would the jackshaft(s) be connected to control horn extensions of the gear legs, or to the upper end of the shock struts?


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## m jamieson (Dec 18, 2008)

toyroy said:


> I have a question about the jackshaft system: would the jackshaft(s) be connected to control horn extensions of the gear legs, or to the upper end of the shock struts?


This is where things obviously get creative, because without an interior the "horn" or lever on the back of the gear isn't a problem. But with the provided interior the floor sits right on top of the gear wells making any mechanism a lot more of an engineering challenge.


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

toyroy said:


> I have a question about the jackshaft system: would the jackshaft(s) be connected to control horn extensions of the gear legs, or to the upper end of the shock struts?


to a control arm added to the back of the legs.


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

m jamieson said:


> This is where things obviously get creative, because without an interior the "horn" or lever on the back of the gear isn't a problem. But with the provided interior the floor sits right on top of the gear wells making any mechanism a lot more of an engineering challenge.


But then again what is it you're trying to build? 

OBVIOUSLY the gear wouldn't fit in a model with the full interior. This has been discussed at least 4 times in the past few years. It won't work. Apples and oranges. 

THE HERO WITH WORKING GEAR *DID NOT* HAVE A FULL INTERIOR. 

All of you newbies repeat that about 500 times OK? Notice the "DID NOT" aspect of that statement??? 

Lets go over this again for those who aren't thinking about what you actually saw on Lost in Space.

Jupiter 2s:
1 - 4 foot SPFX "Hero" with mechanical lights and working landing gear.
2 - 4 foot Jupiter 2 hull with working pod doors and pod which drops on thin monofiliment.
3 - Full Size set of 1st level.
4 - Full size mock-up of J2 with non-matching gear(doesn't match Hero Gear appearance) and place for actors to stand by front window.
5 - un-used 10 foot fiberglass model intended for scenes with cyclops and Chariot.
6 - 13" Gemini 12/Jupiter 2. No gear, simple bubble light bulb that just blinks, and no interior details and just a piece of metallic tape for lower window.

Notice that you don't see WORKING LANDING GEAR and FULL INTERIOR in the same model.

You are going to have to decide what version you plan to do. I suggest getting SEVERAL Jupiter 2 models. ONE you can do your hot-shot interior and LED fusion core/bubble lighting and photo etch.

The next one you make with the scrim interior and working gear and perhaps mechanical spinning light bulbs for the core? 

Mixing apples and oranges will get ya every time.


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## Paulbo (Sep 16, 2004)

toyroy said:


> ... My study of the landing gear has been focused on the show footage, which nowhere indicates a ball joint.
> 
> Do _you_ understand that a ball joint would be inconsistent with the operation of a working gear? ...


No I don't, since that's not the case.

Here's the hero landing gear's foot pad. Notice the ball and socket joint. It's opening is not large enough to allow a lot of movement and it's constrained by the hinge pin to only rotate in one direction. Also, since it's so small it's pretty much impossible to see in video footage.

A ball and socket joint need not have the range of motion of a shoulder.


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## m jamieson (Dec 18, 2008)

Y3a said:


> But then again what is it you're trying to build?
> 
> OBVIOUSLY the gear wouldn't fit in a model with the full interior. This has been discussed at least 4 times in the past few years. It won't work. Apples and oranges.
> 
> ...


Excuse me Y3a, 
One I am NOT a newbie so please don't condescend to me. I am fully aware of the all the miniatures history including that none had an interior other than a scrim!! I was under the impression (at least from other retractable gear posters in the Moebius forum recently) that someone WAS trying to solve the complex problem of the gear AND an interior which obviously you don't believe can be done...which is fine! Without the interior sure, no problem...plenty of room for jackscrews, or linear actuators, cables, mechanical six light core motors tied to the spinning "V" in the dome and whatever. My mistake for not realizing you weren't talking about something other than the system you put in your 16"inch lunar J2 years ago. But I think acting openly hostile about my remark was really over reacting!


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

toyroy said:


> ...would the jackshaft(s) be connected to control horn extensions of the gear legs, or to the upper end of the shock struts?





Y3a said:


> to a control arm added to the back of the legs.


Yes, I can see that a centrally-mounted shaft could drive all three gear legs. However, it occurs to me that the struts might be threaded internally, and driven by screws turned by small motors mounted at the strut's fixed pivot points.


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

Don't take it personally. You are not the only one who is trying to do this. It CAN be done with modified legs which have a model RR gearbox on the rod where the leg pivots. This can be made to fit under the floor. 

The footpads and how they work is something you must build to understand. The footpads cannot spin on the end of the ram. They CAN pivot. The solution is a fine steel wire to keep the leg aligned, or using a square rod into the top of the footpad but using a square hole and a single pin holding the rod to the footpad. The fact is that I actually built and pitched several systems of gear and lighting before I found the reasonable solutions. The attempts that the modeler may use may suck and be discarded and they will try again. I think most of the builders are not mechanically inclined to design a clean, working set of gear. My mechanical aptitude is very high, and I do Sci-Fi models for fun and Model Railroading for fun. I repair Brass Steam locomotives so the gear is far easier than rebuilding Baker-Pilliod Valve gear and re-quartering the drivers.


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

Paulbo said:


> ...Here's the hero landing gear's foot pad. Notice the ball and socket joint. It's opening is not large enough to allow a lot of movement and it's constrained by the hinge pin to only rotate in one direction...


OK, it may, by design, _look_ like a ball joint. It certainly makes sense for a landing gear to have a pad which can adjust to irregular "terrain"(for lack of a better word.) 

But, as you say, it's constrained by the hinge pin to only rotate in one direction. Functionally, that makes it a _hinge_ joint, regardless of it's appearance.


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## m jamieson (Dec 18, 2008)

I won't take it personal if it isn't assumed that I know nothing about the J2 from a single post (that even included a shot of the hero gear which should have shown I have some background on this issue.) yes I am mechanically inclined also having built my own experimental aircraft so I understand completely what all the problems being discussed are! Strangely enough I also am into model railroads so we have a lot in common. Anyway, it just seemed that my post was not that "off the wall" to warrant the annoyed lecture that's all. Other than that I am very impressed with your work and talent on the J2 so keep it coming!


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

I'm sorry if I irritated you, I have had to re-state a bunch of landing gear stuff on several boards and more than a few threads and I guess I didn't need to blow off here, but at some 'others'. Anyway back to the gear. Got my stuff today. I'll put a leg together tomorrow and see what kind of strength and rigidity it has. Jeez I hope I don't break it doing the testing and have to buy another set. 

Experimental Aircraft!! Funny, I used to build 1/4 $cale RC airplane$ and the fun was figuring out how to do the control surfaces and gear. My favorite was the clipped wing Monocoupe with the angled ailerons.


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## Paulbo (Sep 16, 2004)

Well I guess that takes care of the guy "who got the job of turning the pads, so they fit back in the gear bays?"


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

Y3a said:


> ...I used to build 1/4 RC airplane$ and the fun was figuring out how to do the control surfaces and gear...


So that's the servo connection. I knew it had nothing to do with HO trains.


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

But...Have you seen a tortoise switch machine? That almost screams cheap lever in place of a jackshaft....


jes' sayin'


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

Y3a said:


> ...Have you seen a tortoise switch machine?...


I looked it up. Takes three seconds to throw. Could be useful.


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

Could run it off a 9V battery. I'm looking at how to modify the jackshaft approach for use with one of these suckers.


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## m jamieson (Dec 18, 2008)

toyroy said:


> I looked it up. Takes three seconds to throw. Could be useful.


I thought about those before, but their throw or travel length is too short to create any large movement on the J2's scale unless some secondary arm and pivot were used adding even more complexity.


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## m jamieson (Dec 18, 2008)

Here is what I was looking at: http://www.robotshop.us/firgelli-technologies-L12-50-210-06-I.html they have built in limiting switches and various speed ratio's but they are somewhat expensive.


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

You guys are way ahead of me. I'm thinking of canniballizing an old Athearn Geep for one of its gearsets, to drive the jackscrew. The screw traveler could mechanically or electrically activate the pad doors, then mechanically drive the gear legs.


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

You'll wanna NWSL gear set. 28:1 reduction. Plastic gear intended to press fit onto some 1/8 " steam engine axle. Brass worm glued or soldered to steel drive shaft, or long motor shaft. 20-30 bucks. 

I use the smallest HO scale gearbox with 1/8" shaft and 28:1 and I use brass tube thru the center of the gear so that I can run wires to the core. Mines connected to a small can type motor. It's quiet and lasts a long time. This is how I do the fusion core rotation. I have added RC car ball bearings and holders on either side of the gearbox to take any stress off the gearbox case. The brass tube allows me to run wires to the light bulbs in the core and still rotate. I made electrical contact by first using heat shrink tube as an insulator and then sliding 1/4 " long pieces of brass tube large enough to squeeze over the heatshrink tube. solder your wire connections for power to the two short tubes. you can use a cutoff disk to very carefully cut a small notch hole into the brass tube shaft to thread those wires. The whole gearbox, motor and brush arrangement can be made compact and by putting a thin sheet of Aircraft grade Birch plywood (1/8") as a cover on top of the core you can mount everything else within it's boundry so as to have maximum area to fling up whatever system you try in the quest for that working gear. A jackshaft/cable controlled gear system would take up prolly 10" x 1.5" x 1.5 for the shaft system an one end of the cable connections and battery holder.


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

toyroy said:


> You guys are way ahead of me. I'm thinking of canniballizing an old Athearn Geep for one of its gearsets, to drive the jackscrew. The screw traveler could mechanically or electrically activate the pad doors, then mechanically drive the gear legs.


My solution is in the springs attached to the cables that pull the doors open and pull the legs down. two wiresare pulled by the jackshaft. the door wire has a stronger spring and pulls the doors open that hits the back stop on the door sliders while the leg wire has no play for lowering the gear but a weak spring that is used to take up the slack while the pad door wire is pulled.


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

Y3a said:


> ...This is how I do the fusion core rotation...


Do you use a 12 VDC model locomotive-type motor for your fusion core?


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

toyroy said:


> You guys are way ahead of me. I'm thinking of canniballizing an old Athearn Geep for one of its gearsets, to drive the jackscrew. The screw traveler could mechanically or electrically activate the pad doors, then mechanically drive the gear legs.





Y3a said:


> My solution is in the springs attached to the cables that pull the doors open and pull the legs down. two wiresare pulled by the jackshaft. the door wire has a stronger spring and pulls the doors open that hits the back stop on the door sliders while the leg wire has no play for lowering the gear but a weak spring that is used to take up the slack while the pad door wire is pulled.


Yes, I remember this well. I've always thought it was brilliant. :thumbsup:

Didn't you use something a bit different, on your servo-operated model?


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

toyroy said:


> Didn't you use something a bit different, on your servo-operated model?


Yeah... I ended up using 3 brand new s-33 Futaba servos to slide open the pad doors which had a beveled edge on the side closest to the motion of the door. Had to seal them into the hull of the 2 footer. I wish I'd known of the Hero solution, wich really IS brilliant.


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

I've been taking a looksee at the fusion core spinner. The core has 32 panes, which is not evenly divisible by 6. It is divisible by 8, and so all electronic spinners have had 8 lights. However, there is another electronic solution which will render a six light spinner about as accurate as any mechanical spinner could be expected to be.

Here's the geometry. For the six light electronic spinner, ideally there should be 30 or 36 core panes. In the first case, every fifth pane would be lighted; in the second case, every sixth pane. 

In the case of 32 panes, it turns out that there can be a lighted pane every 5 panes in the first, third, fourth, and sixth angular segments, and every 6 panes in the second and fifth segments. In other words(for example,) pane numbers 1, 6, 12, 17, 22, and 28 are lighted. If you draw this out on paper, you'll see that the angular segments separated by 6 panes are diagonally opposite each other. The slight unevenness of such an arrangement would escape notice even if the lights were static. And, I dare say, most six light mechanical spinners won't have even this much angular accuracy.

I realize this will be a little more challenging to program on a chip than an eight light spinner. It will be interesting to see if anyone is up to it.


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## modelnutz (Sep 21, 2009)

Y3a said:


> I wish I'd known of the Hero solution, wich really IS brilliant.


I might have missed something here...how _did_ the hero version deal with the pad doors ?
Please be kind if this has been detailed before ( let me know where to look for the info if it's been shown already...will ya' ? )


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

modelnutz said:


> ...how _did_ the hero version deal with the pad doors ?...


Check out this recent thread, for more info: http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=264861


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

lemme try to explain.... It's hard to describe. The pad door has a bolt attached to the center back of it that goes through a hole in a bracket that slides on the rail. The bolt allows the pad door to rise and fall into place. The wire that pulls the door open is attached to the bolt as well. when tension is added, the wire first lifts the pad door out of it's closed position and lifts it high enough that it clears the rail and other mechanics. The rail is on an angle so as the tension increases the door is pulled completely away from the opening. Then the main gear extends. 

When retracting, first the leg gets back to it's retract position and then the tension on the wire holding the door is released. A spring pushes the sliding bracket and footpad back into closed position. the release of tension is slow to give the effect of machinery being involved in teh retract sequence. The pad door would continue to be pulled enough to still be above the pad door opening until the last and it would just drop into position. I think the "Bolt" might have to hold a piece of square tube to help as an alignment system. 

I posted some photos of the inside of the Hero that you can look at in case their are more questions.


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

*Jupiter 2 Landing Gear Studies*

_*PLEASE NOTE:* The following files are really made to be studied frame-by-frame on a video editor such as VirtualDub(which is freeware,) and may or may not open in Windows Media Player or software DVD players.

Possibly, at some future time, I may add a soundtrack to these .m2v files so they may open in more standard video players._ 

The following videos(MPEG-2, no sound) are derived from DVD clips provided by Teslabe. They have been processed to enhance detail. 

Lower hull gear motion shot, from "The Derelict" landing: http://www.sendspace.com/file/k6d59e

Pad door closing shot, from "The Derelict" lift-off: http://www.sendspace.com/file/cmuevg

The main landing shot, From "The Ghost Planet": http://www.sendspace.com/file/a557e8

Hull-normalized frame sequence from "The Ghost Planet" landing: http://www.sendspace.com/file/favu07


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

Uggh! Couldn't get 'em to play. can you try YouToob?


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## terryr (Feb 11, 2001)

HAHA. They're downloads, not players. Can't ya download?

Thanks for the pics anyway. And the mpegs.
Several neat things in there. Never noticed the little doors and the leg overlap as a kid. It appears the ankles have to pivot one way to be both flat on the ground, and tuck into the hull. Otherwise it would stand on tippy-toes. It's not a ball joint. Just a cross shaft drilled through a ball.

I would go with 3 arms to lift the legs, or 3 points on a disc. A jackshaft might have too much power. But I'm only used to big ones.

I wonder how the legs lowered. Just by weight? I suppose the feet were quite heavy.


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## Darth Humorous (Dec 6, 2001)

I can download the free ones, but I can’t view them in any form.

Mark


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

Says its NOT a movie file. Didn't work on Mac or XP. Not a Player issue.

terryr - I 'd have to download them to play them whether via a stream or download.


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## Paulbo (Sep 16, 2004)

Well, I finally got one to play (haven't downloaded the others yet). It wouldn't play in QuickTime player (PC) but when I forced it to try Windows Media Player it worked.

My guess is that it was encoded with a codec that QT doesn't understand.


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

Y3a said:


> Says its NOT a movie file. Didn't work on Mac or XP. Not a Player issue.
> 
> terryr - I 'd have to download them to play them whether via a stream or download.





Paulbo said:


> Well, I finally got one to play (haven't downloaded the others yet). It wouldn't play in QuickTime player (PC) but when I forced it to try Windows Media Player it worked.
> 
> My guess is that it was encoded with a codec that QT doesn't understand.


Sigh.  They are MPEG-2, which is the video format of a DVD. They're encoded in the same format as I got them from Teslabe, except they don't have sound. I chose that codec, specifically because it _is_ the highest video quality. Please don't ask me to turn them into the excrement that is YouTube. 

They'll play on Windows Media Player, Windows Media Player Classic, or any other player that can handle an MPEG-2 codec, such as a software DVD player. They can also be played framewise on VirtualDub, or another video editor.


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## j2man (Jun 18, 1999)

The biggest problem I'm having is the hinge issue. Getting a bond with metal to plastic has been a nightmare. I have replaced the plastic shock absorbers with sections of springs for ink pens. This causes my Lunar Model foot pads to conform to the moebius ship. (in other words) I do not plan on adding the sliding hatches. Most of you will be mortified at the cutting I've had to do to this kit to get it to do this. BUT the bottom line is, the entire interior fits fine. I must say, I have to do some cut's (CLEAN UP) before I post anything. I'm sure I will get the nick name (The Butcher) before it's all over with. But the end result will be the same. Just remember, you don't always want to see the kitchen of a restaraunt just cuz you want to eat there. Chances are, you love the food, but would never eat there again. he he he. I have made a lot of surface damage that will have to be repaired, which is a bummer, but I believe someone with much more talent than me can do the same exact thing I'm doing (only prettier).......If you are interested in being that person to do what I'm doing, only making precision cuts etc. PM me. We shall collaborate!


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

j2man said:


> The biggest problem I'm having is the hinge issue. Getting a bond with metal to plastic has been a nightmare. I have replaced the plastic shock absorbers with sections of springs for ink pens. This causes my Lunar Model foot pads to conform to the moebius ship. (in other words) I do not plan on adding the sliding hatches...


J2Man, do you mean the hinge to the strut, on the bottom step? I'd use K&S brass tube, and solder the hinge plate on. If you're speaking of the gear leg hinge, my thinking is screw the hinge plate to the top step. I presume you're _not_ hinging the pad to the strut, but if I'm wrong, just let me know.

During my first viewing of the series, I figured the bottom of the pad fit flush with the hull. It sounds like that's the way you're building your model, is that right?


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## teslabe (Oct 20, 2007)

toyroy said:


> Sigh.  They are MPEG-2, which is the video format of a DVD. They're encoded in the same format as I got them from Teslabe, except they don't have sound. I chose that codec, specifically because it _is_ the highest video quality. Please don't ask me to turn them into the excrement that is YouTube.
> 
> They'll play on Windows Media Player, Windows Media Player Classic, or any other player that can handle an MPEG-2 codec, such as a software DVD player. They can also be played framewise on VirtualDub, or another video editor.


When a mpg2 has no sound track, it is not a true mpg2, it is now an m2v (mpg2 video only), something a video editor would understand but not most players. Windows Media Player 12 can play them, not sure about 11.
Its always best to include a sound track, even if it silent, if you what a true
mpg2 that can be played with most new players.


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

I downloaded VNC player and looked at the clips!


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## j2man (Jun 18, 1999)

Toyroy...

I used piano hinges at the top step of the leg where it joins the ship. It seems to be holding now. I guess I had not let the acrylic bonding agent cure. It does support the weight of the interior quite well. I have decided to let it rest for a few days before I start adding the mechanics.........I'll keep you posted.


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## j2man (Jun 18, 1999)

My camera stinks, but you'll get the jist of what I'm trying to accomplish. WIP, I can't stress that one enough. LOL


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

Uh oh! Thats' not gonna transfer weight very well.


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

For those who are on their way on the gear. lets talk about the system to support the model to display or photograph the working gear. If you want to keep the top hull removable the actual attach points should be on the main mechanism. The problem arises from rocking the model like it would be as it pitches back n forth through the force fields or other such nonsense. The top hull would come loose from the bottom because the force of the wires would shear the upper hull from the lower as you got to around 70 degrees. you may have to have a screw or bolt used to attach both hulls together with access through the upper sensor and other hatches. Having those work also allows access inside for maintenance and putting on/off switches, charging jacks, and such. I plan to have magnets hold the gear covers (of the "No Gear" version) in place and hide the core and show lights on/off switch and the charging jacks. 

For the full Hero, I'll put the stuff in the big hatch recess. If you plan to hang your Gear Jupiter 2, remember that keeping the stuff aligned is super important. Even down to the hull flatness, and floor flatness etc. How close to perfect did the pivot points of the gear work out? I suggest experimenting with the wire from an old electric motor to support AND power the models gear. It's OK to have a fw small AA size batteries for a few LED's but keep any tricky stuff off the model so it's lighter weight. I will use the thinnest wire that K&S makes, painted flat black, and attached to threaded ends. These are threaded through the inside to the outside of the upper hull with the screw end inside. They are screwed into blind nuts glued to the floor a solder point has been added for electrical contact. 3 legs let you have 2 systems working at the same time. gear up and gear down. perhaps lights if you are clever..... 

Attaching upper to lower hull. next time..........................


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## bert model maker (Feb 19, 2002)

Try the method sci fi metropolis used for their retractable gear for the 24 inch jupiter 2 > http://www.scifimetropolis.com/j2inst.html


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

bert model maker said:


> Try the method sci fi metropolis used for their retractable gear for the 24 inch jupiter 2


Bert, Isn't the SFM gear entirely manual? Each leg is pulled down separately, and locked into position. And, there is simply no pad door at all, as far as I can see.

Y3a and J2Man are going for much more, with their landing gears.


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

The footpad doors sliding and such are not difficult, and the mechanics actually needs to be a bit sloppy for it anyway. The two main points are that all 3 pad doors do the exact thing at the same time AND ONLY AFTER the pad doors have cleared, the legs would extend. A close third is that it has to work exactly backwards when the gear is retracted. The legs must retract all the way up and the footpads have cleared THEN the 3 footpad doors would slide back over the hole and drop into it, making it flush with the exterior hull. while the smaller scale model (than the 4 foot Hero) makes the precision of the mechanics and the fit a bigger challenge. 

You really have several systems and internal stuff that makes designing all 3 systems to be as compact and out of the way a priority. Using the Hero Gear and those excellent brass footpads n such, I will still have to add a brass support into the design to spread the stress around , and take the real weight of the model. The length of the jackshaft will be determined after calculating the distance the control arm travels from up to down...and a teeny bit more. Originally I thought of a bracket that held the back end of the ram and it used a real brass rod and the footpad and rod actually supported the weight. I am using a brass tube soldered to the control arm bracket/leg stiffener so it is in the same position as the pivot point on the real Hero. I'll fabricate one and build a construction jig to make identical copies. I also plan to have the same gear wells the hero actually had - not the round cutout version of the full size set. I decided to go completely "Hero" and build a cockpit box instead of using anything from the model kits interior. I can put the batteries under the box and still have all the room I need. The controls to the legs are by steel wire inside teflon Model Airplane tubing. It works like a brake cable on a 10 speed bike. By putting threaded connectors on one end you can adjust each cable individually. The jackshaft is slow, but has a buttload of torque so be careful! It's also the lightest weight for that kind of power. by clever use of springs and other stuff, you can sequence the gear and pad doors. Make sure that you make note of pictures of the real Hero as to the support wire positions. Drill the holes from the outside. Do this at the same time you cut out the upper hatches. You ARE gonna have working hatches aren't you?? One of the keys to success is the ability to fabricate identical parts.


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

Y3a said:


> ...lets talk about the system to support the model to display or photograph the working gear. If you want to keep the top hull removable the actual attach points should be on the main mechanism...


Hear, hear! In building a usable prop, both the actual hero and the PL kits had the advantage of extra rigidity coming from the upper hull sides being integral with the lower hull. Folks building the Moebius model, with it's detachable upper hull, need to understand they have an entirely different situation.


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

Another way to do the gear...............

OK, so you aren't very mechanical at all. I have a cheap solution to the working gear task, and it only requires some thin monofiliment like the fishermen use. The finished model will slide it's pad doors open and then drop the gear. The model will NOT BE ABLE TO SUPPORT ITSELF! It is a string puppet. Make a 1 foot diameter circle of thin (1/4") plywood. your control and support filiment will be attached to this. You may also add a hook in the center as a way to hang your model. The 3 footpad doors will be internally connected, so as you pull one door open the rest follow. The legs will be strung together too, and the top of the ram will be where the filiment will need to be attached.

Later I will do some drawings of this and update THIS POST...so check back.


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

+++++++ COMPLETELY OFF TOPIC +++++++++++
======= Wild Hair idea for those using multiple =====
======= interiors in a single hull ===========

Why not put the wiring and light boxes on the hull to reduce the cost/hassle of making two of everything? I'm going this method on my "No Gear" version that I'm doing a Yr 1 and Yr 3 interior. I think I will use a wiring harness with the lights/LED's that just snap/ slide or otherwise attach themselves behind or under the interior piece. The batteries could still be under the deck and out of the way of the fusion core lighting.

Another bit. I plan to use the kit provided dishes inside the bubble, but flat black on the back and Bare Metal Foil on the front surface, and still altered to be closer to the angles of the Hero spinning "V". The LED bubble light effect will be in a black box, for swapping with the spinning bubble stuff. This will allow me to use the model to represent both the Hero and the smaller Gemini 12/Jupiter 2 model. The No Gear version, with the interior, and Photo etch, and lit, sitting on Henry's Gantry and Fusion Core lights (lit and super detailed) will be ideal to use to film the lift off sequence. The main reason I'm doing all the work on this project with all the aftermarket stuff is the final results you can get with such excellent components. Just out of the box the kit is superb, and with careful painting and lighting, its even better. A light treatment of dry brush and washes in some areas would make those areas stick out. The stuff thats under the Astrogator saucer and the Inertial navigation ball could be brought out with a little contrast from drybrush. variations on the seat leather, and painting the elevator cage with 2-3 types of silver/aluminum/steel/titanium. The tape reels could be Bare Metal Foil, and the tape should be rust colored (iron oxide, unless it was Chromium Oxide then it would be a very dark blue.)


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

Gear wells, support points and methods, and choices YOU MUST MAKE......

For my gear, I'm using the Hero Aftermarket set. I have added brass sheet to the backs of the legs for the strength and because the Hero had such a detail that hid light leakage between the leg and gear well. The footpad door and hole had slightly beveled edges to do the same thing. I had to cut a slot for the brass tube to go through, and the mounting part under it, also soldered together with the back part that gives the leg some strength and stiffness so it may JUST support itself. I have some 4-40 threaded rod for the jackshaft. I also have 4-40 threaded inserts which will be the attachment point for the cables yanking the gear down n such. A small can motor will provide power attached by rubber tube to the threaded rod. Some smaller diameter brass rod will go through the back end of the gear well walls at the point the gear pivots. The brass support will not extend past the edge of the leg at the back end because during gear rotation from up to down, the back end of the leg will be inside the gear well. This detail is noticeable on the Hero photos.

The attach points are as noted on the top surface of the 4 foot Hero photos in my album which show my hull with the details highlighted in Sharpie Marker. Drill through your hull in the same spots and use a straight steel wire to locate the spot on the lower hull where a wedge can be added and a 2-56 Blind nut can be glued. A 2-56 attach point with your support wire gets attached inside and the wire threaded through the hole in the upper hull from the underside. You can then attach it to your overhead support harness.


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## modelnutz (Sep 21, 2009)

So, if I understand correctly, the pivot point is NOT at the surface but somewhere inside the well ? A surface mounted hinge is not "cannon" ?
Any exact location info as it relates to the kit gear ?

Also, I think that I've come up with a cam drive which will activate the doors....then the gear in the proper sequence...using only one motor/servo.

I have to do a bit of drafting to prove the concept...if it looks like it will work ( and the test rig proves it to be do-able ) I'll make a few scetches and post them.


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

A photo of the back of the HERO LEG. NOTE the pivot point and that its about 1/2 inch inside the 4 foot Hero.


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

modelnutz said:


> So, if I understand correctly, the pivot point is NOT at the surface but somewhere inside the well ?...Any exact location info as it relates to the kit gear ?...


There are drawings of the Jupiter 2 showing the landing gear layout here on HobbyTalk. You'll need to search for them.


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

It looks like you can replace the top step on the Hero gear with a carefully copied BRASS version, so you can solder the Brass tube to top rear of that step. This places it almost perfectly to where you'd need it for your Moebius J2 lower hull. If you don't plan to put weight on your hero Legs, then just drill the holes in the sides and glue it in place with CA.

If you decide to put a hidden brass guide for the top of the ram, you may want to figure a way to make the rams actually push the legs down and support them. This way the brass feet and ram detail will support the weight. You may decide to acquire longer brass rods for use in the ends of the rams that would go up and through the guide. I would suggest that the guide pivots and is fairly heavy duty.


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

Maybe a hinge could be used on the gear leg, with one plate mounted to the inside of the back piece.


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

most small hinges lack the precision. the brass tube and rod is the best method. You can make the rods as long as 1.5" so you can get the gear well supports away from the rest of your mechanics. I am making an ALIGNMENT JIG for making sure all 3 brass tubes are correctly aligned before I even install those leg into the model.


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

Y3a said:


> ...I am making an ALIGNMENT JIG for making sure all 3 brass tubes are correctly aligned before I even install those leg into the model.


Sounds good. Are you aligning your gear 120 degrees apart, or adjusting for the idiosyncrasies of the Moebius hull?


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## Paulbo (Sep 16, 2004)

It's not actually an idiosyncrasy - it's accuracy to the 4' hero miniature.


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

toyroy said:


> ...Are you aligning your gear 120 degrees apart, or adjusting for the idiosyncrasies of the Moebius hull?





Paulbo said:


> It's not actually an idiosyncrasy - it's accuracy to the 4' hero miniature.


The _original_ hero?


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## j2man (Jun 18, 1999)

Well, I finally have the landing gear working. I'll be putting a video in later today. I failed to mention in the video, that when my gear comes down (automatically) then I have to physically by hand pull the landing strut to locking position to be able to support the weight of the ship. I plan on shooting the inner workings of it at a later time. It is not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but I hope you all will be a little impressed. I used resin footpads from the 16 inch lunar kit. I have attached the footpad to the poll using common ink pen springs to allow the pad to flex to the shape of the hull. There is a strait piece of metal (pin) that once the weight of the ship causes the spring to collapse with the weight holds the pad and strut to stay in place. Like the lunar instructions, I used pieces of flexible drinkings straws as the boot to cover the springs.


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## j2man (Jun 18, 1999)

Here it is.


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## skinnyonce (Dec 17, 2009)

Cool,!!
it can be done,, and on the 1/35 to boot.. great work j2man


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## j2man (Jun 18, 1999)

Thanks Skinnyonce. Still need some cleanup though. But I sure do like it.


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## bert model maker (Feb 19, 2002)

Nice work J2Man ! very impressive !


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## shopper (Dec 6, 2003)

*My SFM 24" J2*

I have been lurking over here for awhile, but hard at work on several projects, including my Jupiter 2 I bought several years ago.

Recently I have been experimenting with several setups to make the landing gear on my 24" Scifi Metropolis J-2 operate. I have also added some other features. For the landing gear, I am using linear actuators one for each leg. The internal electronics include a radio control circuit to control the features, lighting to light up the cockpit panels, scrim, landing gear leg wells, rotating spinner in upper dome and the fusion core. Attached is a mov of one of the gear legs setup with the LA. The LA is made by Figerilli in Canada. It has a 50mm stroke length, runs on 12 volts and has internal limit switches to stop the piston at the end of the stroke. Using a DPDT relay, the LA can be reversed.

http://s878.photobucket.com/albums/ab349/fireguy_01/?action=view&current=PICT1086.mp4


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## shopper (Dec 6, 2003)

*More of my J2*

Here's another test shot mov of my ScFi Metropolis J2 before the work began on the landing gear.....

http://s878.photobucket.com/albums/ab349/fireguy_01/?action=view&current=PICT0884.mp4


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## shopper (Dec 6, 2003)

*More of my J2*

More pics of construction.....more to come!



http://i878.photobucket.com/albums/ab349/fireguy_01/PICT0879.jpg

http://i878.photobucket.com/albums/ab349/fireguy_01/PICT0627.jpg

http://i878.photobucket.com/albums/ab349/fireguy_01/PICT0876.jpg


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## Captain Han Solo (Apr 5, 2002)

VERY NICE WORK SIR!:thumbsup:


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## shopper (Dec 6, 2003)

beatlepaul said:


> VERY NICE WORK SIR!:thumbsup:


Thank you! It is still a work in progress with alot to finish yet.


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## Chuck Eds (Jul 20, 2009)

Here are some wip shots of the footpad hatches on my SFM Jupiter II. These will be cable operated by a centrally located bellcrank. The rod connected to the hatch cover is angled, so that as it retracts the cover is moved slightly upwards & outwards. This reduces friction, something you want to avoid, I learned this from the Lunar Models JII I built almost 20 years ago!

There is a guide along the outer edge and a stop at the rear, they work very well at keeping the cover in place and allowing it to operate smoothly. There is an angled stop on the front edge which ensures that the cover closes firmly. So far so good!


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## shopper (Dec 6, 2003)

Chuck Eds said:


> Here are some wip shots of the footpad hatches on my SFM Jupiter II. These will be cable operated by a centrally located bellcrank. The rod connected to the hatch cover is angled, so that as it retracts the cover is moved slightly upwards & outwards. This reduces friction, something you want to avoid, I learned this from the Lunar Models JII I built almost 20 years ago!
> 
> There is a guide along the outer edge and a stop at the rear, they work very well at keeping the cover in place and allowing it to operate smoothly. There is an angled stop on the front edge which ensures that the cover closes firmly. So far so good!


Nice Job! I like your design. Looks simple but efficient. Did you ever see what Jim Key designed for his J-2's? Jim owns Custom Replicas (http://www.customreplicas.com). He had a DVD that I purchased a while back that has a lot of construction photos including some excellent landing gear designs. 
When I get the LA's installed and working good I may try to modify the gear wells for slider doors on my J-2.

Thanks,
Bill


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## Chuck Eds (Jul 20, 2009)

Thanks Bill, I had a more extensive track system on paper, but as I was putting it together I found that less was better. The cables will attach with swivel clevises and hopefully that will make for a nice smooth operation!


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## WEAPON X (Mar 5, 2006)

Very interesting work, indeed!


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

shopper said:


> Jim owns Custom Replicas (http://www.customreplicas.com).


Hey thanks Bill! Great site. AMAZING works there!!!!:thumbsup:


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## bert model maker (Feb 19, 2002)

Does custom replicas actually sell anything or is everything still in development ?


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## shopper (Dec 6, 2003)

bert model maker said:


> Does custom replicas actually sell anything or is everything still in development ?


He sells last I knew.


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## bert model maker (Feb 19, 2002)

I can never seem to find a price list


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## shopper (Dec 6, 2003)

bert model maker said:


> I can never seem to find a price list


More than likely, you will have to contact Jim to get a quote on what you want.


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## teslabe (Oct 20, 2007)

bert model maker said:


> I can never seem to find a price list


http://www.customreplicas.com/store.html

This is all that they have for sale right now, my LHS has their Saturn V - F1
engine in stock but that's it that I know of.


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## bert model maker (Feb 19, 2002)

have they started selling their jupiter 2 do you know or any real space subjects ?


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## teslabe (Oct 20, 2007)

bert model maker said:


> have they started selling their jupiter 2 do you know or any real space subjects ?


I didn't hear that they had any plans of selling a J-2, are you thinking of "ScFi Metropolis"? Years ago they did have pictures of an interior being built, but it never went anywhere and the pictures got pulled from their website......:freak:


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## bert model maker (Feb 19, 2002)

they had something for a 4 foot jupiter 2 at one time and have a CD detailing it on their web site.


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## shopper (Dec 6, 2003)

bert model maker said:


> they had something for a 4 foot jupiter 2 at one time and have a CD detailing it on their web site.


Check the FAQ on the Custom website or give them a call. They may be able to custom build you one.


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## Chuck Eds (Jul 20, 2009)

Getting back on topic, here's the landing gear pivot point. There were some questions/ comments earlier in the thread, and this is how I accomplished it.

I made 1/8" slots that go upward & outward at a 45 degree angle, which allow the legs to deploy with enough room to clear the back edges of the hull openings. This worked very well on my old Lunar Models test build. I'd be curious to to see how anyone else has done this...


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

Ummmm, Chuck, do you work for NASA?:thumbsup:


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## Chuck Eds (Jul 20, 2009)

I wish, besides my designs are way to simple for government work! Now Shopper on the other hand, he's got to be some kind of engineer!


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## shopper (Dec 6, 2003)

*My 24" SFM J-2 Landing Gear Progress*

Attached is short vid of linear actuators installed on all 3 landing gear. LA's are made by Firgelli.

http://s878.photobucket.com/albums/ab349/fireguy_01/?action=view&current=PICT1090.mp4


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## Chuck Eds (Jul 20, 2009)

Nice & smoooth Bill!


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## shopper (Dec 6, 2003)

Chuck Eds said:


> I wish, besides my designs are way to simple for government work! Now Shopper on the other hand, he's got to be some kind of engineer!



Not really, just got a knack I have been told. Alot of trial and error involved.

Thanks for the kudos......


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## bert model maker (Feb 19, 2002)

OUTSTANDING !!!:thumbsup:


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## WEAPON X (Mar 5, 2006)

Shopper, please check your PM, thank you!


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## Radiodugger (Sep 27, 2011)

Wow, guys. I'm blown away! I'm now following _*two*_ threads here on landing gear for the J-2!

I just bought the Moebius J-2, and it should be here next week. I am an experienced modeler with 30+ years behind me, so I'll be watching what you guys do! I just LOVE what you've done so far. Greg Jein could not be reached for questions on the Hero restoration, so I'm clueless where everything stands at this point. Thanks guys! Great topic!

Radio Doug


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## shopper (Dec 6, 2003)

Radiodugger said:


> Wow, guys. I'm blown away! I'm now following _*two*_ threads here on landing gear for the J-2!
> 
> I just bought the Moebius J-2, and it should be here next week. I am an experienced modeler with 30+ years behind me, so I'll be watching what you guys do! I just LOVE what you've done so far. Greg Jein could not be reached for questions on the Hero restoration, so I'm clueless where everything stands at this point. Thanks guys! Great topic!
> 
> Radio Doug


I have a Moebius J2 also (still in box). The Linear Actuators I used for my SFM J-2 come in a smaller 10 and 20mm stroke size. They may work for the landing gear on the Moebius J2.........


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## shopper (Dec 6, 2003)

*J-2 Landing Gear*

A tease shot of the Landing Gear LA's installed and connected to the remote control system.

http://s878.photobucket.com/albums/ab349/fireguy_01/?action=view&current=PICT1102.mp4


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

shopper said:


> http://s878.photobucket.com/albums/ab349/fireguy_01/?action=view&current=PICT1102.mp4


*faints dead away*


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## Chuck Eds (Jul 20, 2009)

Nice Bill! Are you going to install the anti-theft system too? Remote start & hatch locks would also be nice.


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## shopper (Dec 6, 2003)

Chuck Eds said:


> Nice Bill! Are you going to install the anti-theft system too? Remote start & hatch locks would also be nice.



He..he....well, I was thinking about Lo-Jack so when I fuel the fusion core with the plutonium I am waiting on for delivery, I can find the thing if it should fly off by itself....(LOL) I draw the line on corinthium (sp) leather on the flight seats though...

Bill


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## Radiodugger (Sep 27, 2011)

shopper said:


> A tease shot of the Landing Gear LA's installed and connected to the remote control system...


Awww Man! Shopper that is exact...hey, pad doors? What did you do? 

Doug


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## shopper (Dec 6, 2003)

Radiodugger said:


> Awww Man! Shopper that is exact...hey, pad doors? What did you do?
> 
> Doug


No pad doors.....I am just about done (3 years in the making). I am going to display on a stand (not sure what just yet) so it looks like it is in midair so the landing gears will operate. It's too heavy to be supported by the legs now.

Bill


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## Radiodugger (Sep 27, 2011)

Man that is nice. I play it over and over. After realizing after an hour, the drool on the table, and the glazed over look...Man. I'm blown away! You guys are first rate. All of you! Shopper, Y3a, Chuck Eds...and the rest, This is a certain learning experience for me.

I see I have a place to spend money now, too! Several places! Ha! TSDS and Cult TV Man made my day with all that's available from Moebius and more! I like the Hero gear! TSDS did an awesome job on that!

I gotta admit, I'm a big fan of Ron Gross. There is a guy who knows the Jupiter 2! With his input, we have the Polar Lights 12" (Fantastic model, and easy to upgrade!) the Chariot, the Pod, the 18" Moebius, the aftermarket stuff like Hero Gear, etc..

I am currently trying to get in touch with my old pal Flint Mitchell of LISFan fame. He was my SOURCE at one time. He got me the first pictures of the hero hull back in the early 80's. This is one of them here:

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/LOST-SPACE-JUPITER-2-SPACESHIP-MODEL-8X12-PHOTO-/01/!Bnqgus!!mk~$%28KGrHqYH-CQEuJowI51SBLkZWdLZKQ~~_35.JPG

Hmm, I guess you'll have to cut and paste that link into your browser, sorry.

They are infuriating to find. I'm gonna have to contact Flint Mitchell again and see if he has any of these pics. Greg Jein had this ship for the longest time. He had the Launch Towers and Gantry as well.

I am amazed at the number of ships that were actually created for the series. That's why we have such arguments as to what was and wasn't with this flying saucer. Hey it gives me something to do.

I guess getting in touch with Jein and Mitchell is next on my agenda. I'm pretty sure the filming miniature hero with the working landing gear was the"turntable idea" discussed earlier. Y3a got it almost right on here:

http://www.hooverae.com/upload/pics/LG1.jpg

Those are the best I've seen speculating. I hope it's OK to share these drawings! Flint Mitchell and Greg Jein should see these. Onward!

Doug


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## shopper (Dec 6, 2003)

My J-2 Build update......exterior painted, cockpit and light box completed, electronics installed, need to install view port windows, secure upper and lower saucer and build a base. 

http://s878.photobucket.com/albums/ab349/fireguy_01/?action=view&current=PICT1165.mp4

http://s878.photobucket.com/albums/ab349/fireguy_01/?action=view&current=PICT1164.mp4


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

Awesome, totally, beyond words.:thumbsup:


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## Maritain (Jan 16, 2008)

Well done! Now I"ll give all you J II builders some food for thought at least those with working landing gear. How about a telescopic pole going though the center of the fusion reactor lifting and lowering the whole ship in tandem with the landing gear. You know someone's going to do it someday. 

Seriously awesome work there!


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## WEAPON X (Mar 5, 2006)

Bill, all I can say is... Brilliant... Outstanding! :thumbsup:

P.S. We ordered the L12-R's (50mm, 210:1) from Firgelli in November for my 24 inch J2 project. Time will tell! 

--Ben G. :wave:


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## Fernando Mureb (Nov 12, 2006)

*GASP!!!*

WOW!! GREAT!!
I thought I had seen everything about the construction of J2. But you guys always come up with an exciting new idea. :thumbsup:


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## teslabe (Oct 20, 2007)

Very nice work, love the smooth motion and how well you got the pads to retract into
the bottom. Grreat job......:thumbsup:


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## shopper (Dec 6, 2003)

J-2 Test Flight.....a little too dark to see landing gear operate....I will try again later.

http://s878.photobucket.com/albums/ab349/fireguy_01/?action=view&current=PICT1173.mp4


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## WEAPON X (Mar 5, 2006)

shopper said:


> J-2 Test Flight.....a little too dark to see landing gear operate....I will try again later.
> 
> http://s878.photobucket.com/albums/ab349/fireguy_01/?action=view&current=PICT1173.mp4


And the Robinsons and Major West are... 'ready to go'!


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

Here is something to think about.......

The model was filmed as a HIGH SPEED MODEL, so all the functions actually operated 4-8 times faster than what you saw on TV. My models have a 2 way switch to either Work slowly, as you saw on TV, OR, high speed with lots brighter lights, for actual high speed photography. Now, go look at the scenes where the Jupiter 2 flys overhead, only to be hit by that flaming mushroom from an explosion. The timing had to be JUST RIGHT at those speeds!


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## kimba32003 (Dec 17, 2008)

shopper said:


> J-2 Test Flight.....a little too dark to see landing gear operate....I will try again later.
> 
> http://s878.photobucket.com/albums/ab349/fireguy_01/?action=view&current=PICT1173.mp4


Hi Shopper

I've been following this thread and your brilliant construct for a while. Excellent work !! I've installed a sound device in my Moebius 18" J2, but I like the sound grab you have even better than mine ! Could I enquire where you got it, and / or could you please send me a copy of the J2 taking off. It's just one of the BEST sfx from tv history I think !

Hope you can assist, thanks
Wayne


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

Y3a said:


> Here is something to think about.......
> 
> The model was filmed as a HIGH SPEED MODEL, so all the functions actually operated 4-8 times faster than what you saw on TV. My models have a 2 way switch to either Work slowly, as you saw on TV, OR, high speed with lots brighter lights, for actual high speed photography. Now, go look at the scenes where the Jupiter 2 flys overhead, only to be hit by that flaming mushroom from an explosion. The timing had to be JUST RIGHT at those speeds!


I've often seen this comment but don't understand it. Why wouldn't the flaming mushroom look 4 - 8 times slower on the TV if it was filmed 4 - 8 times faster? If you look at the sfx footage on the LIS Forever dvd, say, you can see humans and other real world phenomena interacting with the models. To my eye, the lights on the models seem to be as bright and the same flash rate as anything we saw on TV, and the dust, smoke, flames, geysers, etc, seem to be moving at a human rate, as do the humans themselves. Nothing seems to be two or four times faster or slower than "real" speed, including the models themselves. The quick cutaways from the clapper people are the same as they are with the full-size Chariot scenes. Nothing like the speed distortion that was so obvious in much of the sfx on Forbidden Planet, for example. Are you sure you're not confusing film speed (fps) with film speed (asa)?
Back on topic: extremely nice work! And the Robinsons are the best I've seen. What a great build!


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## shopper (Dec 6, 2003)

*Jupiter 2 Fusion Core Testing*

Video of take off and landing cycle of the J-2.....
final trials before sealing hulls together.

http://s878.photobucket.com/albums/ab349/fireguy_01/?action=view&current=DSCN0708.mp4


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## shopper (Dec 6, 2003)

*Jupiter 2 Fusion Core testing*

Fast start and take off ......

http://s878.photobucket.com/albums/ab349/fireguy_01/?action=view&current=DSCN0712.mp4


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## shopper (Dec 6, 2003)

*Jupiter 2 Fusion Core Test Last*

Test of Fusion Core during Landing.......


http://s878.photobucket.com/albums/ab349/fireguy_01/?action=view&current=PICT1215.mp4


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

Shopper, that's awesome!!!!!:thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## WEAPON X (Mar 5, 2006)

shopper said:


> Test of Fusion Core during Landing.......
> 
> 
> http://s878.photobucket.com/albums/ab349/fireguy_01/?action=view&current=PICT1215.mp4


Bill, this is my favorite for some reason. I don't know why! :thumbsup:
-Ben G.


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## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

That is ... NICE!


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## shopper (Dec 6, 2003)

*Jupiter 2 Fusion Core and Landing Gear Test with Sound*

A upshot of my Jupiter 2 Fusion Core and Landing Gear operating....

http://s878.photobucket.com/albums/ab349/fireguy_01/?action=view&current=DSCN0720.mp4


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

Oh ho, what's that? CGI? Sorry- looks too good to be real, dude.:thumbsup:
Just kidding.


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## shopper (Dec 6, 2003)

*Jupiter 2 Fusion Core*

This is the gadget I put together to control the speed of the fusion core using radio control. The Fusion Core I have was designed with a 50K potentiometer to adjust the core speed. I replaced the on-board pot with a 50K 16mm pot and coupled it with a small R/C servo and attached to a small piece of styrene plastic.

http://i878.photobucket.com/albums/ab349/fireguy_01/PICT1219.jpg


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## teslabe (Oct 20, 2007)

shopper said:


> This is the gadget I put together to control the speed of the fusion core using radio control. The Fusion Core I have was designed with a 50K potentiometer to adjust the core speed. I replaced the on-board pot with a 50K 16mm pot and coupled it with a small R/C servo and attached to a small piece of styrene plastic.
> 
> http://i878.photobucket.com/albums/ab349/fireguy_01/PICT1219.jpg


Very cleaver......:thumbsup: Is this the 24" J-2 from ScifiMetropolis ?


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## teslabe (Oct 20, 2007)

Sorry, just read post #94......


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## B-9 (Jun 8, 2009)

starseeker said:


> I've often seen this comment but don't understand it. Why wouldn't the flaming mushroom look 4 - 8 times slower on the TV if it was filmed 4 - 8 times faster? Are you sure you're not confusing film speed (fps) with film speed (asa)?


I sort of agree. I can see it being filmed at a possible 48 frames per second but nothing more on most of those shots mentioned. Run the footage on your DVD player a 2X and you'll see how it looks. Of course, I wasn't there with L.B Abbott and Mammeras so I certainly don't know for sure what they did, I'm just speculating.


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## liskorea317 (Mar 27, 2009)

B-9 said:


> I sort of agree. I can see it being filmed at a possible 48 frames per second but nothing more on most of those shots mentioned. Run the footage on your DVD player a 2X and you'll see how it looks. Of course, I wasn't there with L.B Abbott and Mammeras so I certainly don't know for sure what they did, I'm just speculating.


Miniatures were often filmed at 48-90 frames per second. Normal speed is 24 frames per second. The film is played back at 24, so the more frames taken for a second of action would slow it down considerably.
For cars and other normal sized objects they are often filmed at 12 to 15 frames to make them go faster on screen.


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## Fernando Mureb (Nov 12, 2006)

Fantastic!! :thumbsup:

Do you have a video of the working gears from the inside of the lower hull?


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## Fernando Mureb (Nov 12, 2006)

*WOW!!*

*WHAT IS THAT?!* - http://s878.photobucket.com/albums/.../fireguy_01/?action=view&current=DSCN0670.mp4


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

Fernando Mureb said:


> *WOW!!*
> 
> *WHAT IS THAT?!* - http://s878.photobucket.com/albums/.../fireguy_01/?action=view&current=DSCN0670.mp4


Fernando, it's a laser. In that vid it's set on LOW because he didn't want to set his wall on fire while melting a hole through it.
What, you don't have one? Every 21st Century _KID_ has one (with parental intensity locks, of course).


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

http://s878.photobucket.com/albums/ab349/fireguy_01/?action=view&current=DSCN0708.mp4
You are a bonifide genius.:thumbsup:


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## Fernando Mureb (Nov 12, 2006)

Forgive my ignorance but did he build that thing from scratch, or do they sell the weapon?


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

Fernando Mureb said:


> Forgive my ignorance but did he build that thing from scratch, or do they sell the weapon?


You can get one at any weapons store or Wal-Mart.

Ha ha, just kidding!!!!:thumbsup: I'm assuming he made it, and very well, I might add!


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## Fernando Mureb (Nov 12, 2006)

OMG. I always wanted to have one. 

While I did not know it was possible to make something like that, my frustration was just soft. 

Now, it has become unbearable. 

*I need one!!!*


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## shopper (Dec 6, 2003)

Fernando Mureb said:


> Forgive my ignorance but did he build that thing from scratch, or do they sell the weapon?


It's the Laser Pistol used on the 1st Star Trek TOS pilot "The Cage".
The kit is sold by Roddenberry (Rodd.com) and made by HMS. I built the kit and added a 455nm Blue Laser to the prop.

Thanks,

Safetyman


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## shopper (Dec 6, 2003)

Fernando Mureb said:


> Fantastic!! :thumbsup:
> 
> Do you have a video of the working gears from the inside of the lower hull?


I will put some stuff up on this tread tomorrow.


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## WEAPON X (Mar 5, 2006)

shopper said:


> A upshot of my Jupiter 2 Fusion Core and Landing Gear operating....
> 
> http://s878.photobucket.com/albums/ab349/fireguy_01/?action=view&current=DSCN0720.mp4


Bill, I love this viewing angel, my friend! :thumbsup:
--Ben G. :wave:


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## Gemini1999 (Sep 25, 2008)

shopper said:


> A upshot of my Jupiter 2 Fusion Core and Landing Gear operating....
> 
> http://s878.photobucket.com/albums/ab349/fireguy_01/?action=view&current=DSCN0720.mp4


I wish that I had this kind of skill... I loved watching that video! The fact that you included that extrodinary sound effect cut of the J2 powering up and then back down again just made it all the more realistic.

Thanks for sharing that with us!


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

Gemini1999 said:


> I wish that I had this kind of skill...


We all have the ability to develop this skill, not all of us have the drive!
Shopper is DRIVEN!!!!!:thumbsup:
KUDOS, SHOPPER! You ROCK!


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## shopper (Dec 6, 2003)

*!*



Chrisisall said:


> We all have the ability to develop this skill, not all of us have the drive!
> Shopper is DRIVEN!!!!!:thumbsup:
> KUDOS, SHOPPER! You ROCK!


I am blushing....thanks to all for the complements!

There are much better builders on this forum than I. I learned ALOT from watching this forum and other model/prop making forums that are out there. On this forum Y3a and others were a big influence to my build. Jim Key (not sure if he is on this forum) is another that his builds provided much info on the J-2.

Thanks!

Shopper
(aka Safetyman on TPZ and RPF)
(Sybian04 on YouTube)


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## shopper (Dec 6, 2003)

Fernando Mureb said:


> Fantastic!! :thumbsup:
> 
> Do you have a video of the working gears from the inside of the lower hull?


Here is a short vids of the landing gear operating......


http://s878.photobucket.com/albums/ab349/fireguy_01/?action=view&current=PICT1226.mp4

http://s878.photobucket.com/albums/ab349/fireguy_01/?action=view&current=PICT1225.mp4


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## shopper (Dec 6, 2003)

shopper said:


> Here is a short vids of the landing gear operating......
> 
> Here is a coup0le of pics of interior.....any questions, PM me!
> 
> ...


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## liskorea317 (Mar 27, 2009)

liskorea317 said:


> Miniatures were often filmed at 48-90 frames per second. Normal speed is 24 frames per second. The film is played back at 24, so the more frames taken for a second of action would slow it down considerably.
> For cars and other normal sized objects they are often filmed at 12 to 15 frames to make them go faster on screen.


I was just reading that Peter Jackson plans on doing all his shooting now at 48 fps, and projecting it at that speed to avoid flickering and to make images more life-like on screen.


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## woof359 (Apr 27, 2003)

*doors*

awsome work, I wood like to see it from below and see how tight the legs close against the hull. Nice job.


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## Fernando Mureb (Nov 12, 2006)

Hi Shopper

Thanks for the videos and pics on posts #42 and 43. 

Amazing!!!:thumbsup:


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## bert model maker (Feb 19, 2002)

shopper you have a PM
bert


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## Guest (Jan 24, 2012)

*Wowzers!*

That is the most elegant and fluid Landing Gear system I have ever seen Shopper! Superb function, it's just so smoooooth, even the layout is gorgeous. I've been pondering how an RC system would be laid out in one of these kits, man that's sweet!

Either you have a background in electronics, or years of RC experience, it's obvious. As the gear retracts and deploys, it makes not jerks, or stalls, perfect function, I am extremely impressed Dude!

Your install is clean, and the parts are all so well designed, just stunning.

I can only hope to do half as well, when I approach this upgrade if a client orders this feature.

I thank Bert for pointing this out to me, you get an A+++ from Papa!!:thumbsup:


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

starseeker said:


> I've often seen this comment but don't understand it. Why wouldn't the flaming mushroom look 4 - 8 times slower on the TV if it was filmed 4 - 8 times faster? If you look at the sfx footage on the LIS Forever dvd, say, you can see humans and other real world phenomena interacting with the models. To my eye, the lights on the models seem to be as bright and the same flash rate as anything we saw on TV, and the dust, smoke, flames, geysers, etc, seem to be moving at a human rate, as do the humans themselves. Nothing seems to be two or four times faster or slower than "real" speed, including the models themselves. The quick cutaways from the clapper people are the same as they are with the full-size Chariot scenes. Nothing like the speed distortion that was so obvious in much of the sfx on Forbidden Planet, for example. Are you sure you're not confusing film speed (fps) with film speed (asa)?
> Back on topic: extremely nice work! And the Robinsons are the best I've seen. What a great build!


What you see on TV WAS slower. ALL pyrotechnic shots were filmed at 180 FPS. You can read it on the clapper. The gasoline fireball was filmed about 6 times as fast as you saw it on TV. The models lights had to be brighter to look as you remember them because the shutter was opened for 1/6th the time as normal. Film Speed ASA was about 100 for the color film used by the 2nd unit.


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

liskorea317 said:


> I was just reading that Peter Jackson plans on doing all his shooting now at 48 fps, and projecting it at that speed to avoid flickering and to make images more life-like on screen.


Most of the Jupiter 2 SPFX shots were either 116, or 96 FPS, with the pyrotechnic shots done at 180FPS.


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

liskorea317 said:


> Miniatures were often filmed at 48-90 frames per second. Normal speed is 24 frames per second. The film is played back at 24, so the more frames taken for a second of action would slow it down considerably.
> For cars and other normal sized objects they are often filmed at 12 to 15 frames to make them go faster on screen.


Actually, the frames per second will correspond to the SCALE of the models. Howard and Theodore Lydecker did most of the work to 'bracket' the exposure/film speed in the 1930's and 1940's. They pretty much developed the process of high speed miniature photography.


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