# Is there a glue or cemet that really works?



## 650bill (May 23, 2011)

While waiting for the glue to dry I thought I would write about another problem of mine. I have discovered during my attempts to learn the craft of modeling that all glues are not created equal.

Testors, for example, is not the answer for all gluing problems--in fact, some problems are created simply by the use of testors cement. Yes, I know it is the mainstay of model builders, I began using it back in the 1950's, and on balasa wood construction it was better than anything else one could buy. But now in my waining years, I have noticed a problem with testors cement, i.e., it doesn't give me the strength I require. As I move around the model working, parts keep falling off.

Thankfully I have a great deal of experience with good'ole JB Weld. Once hardened, you can file it, mill it, drilll it,  tap it and finally, paint it. You can break every other piece of plactic on the model, but you will never break the JB Weld. Eh?
650bill


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

There is no one glue for all projects.

For most general building, I use Tamiya Extra Thin (liquid) Cement. This is one of the best mainstream cements ever. It is thin, neat, fast, and strong provided you have a good clean bond. Testors Liquid Cement is also good (the stuff in a glass jar not the junk in the black squeeze applicator). Tamiya Cement will also work well on ABS plastic found in some kits these days (kinda rubery hard plastic used by Pegasus, for example).

I use Testors tube glue for large, thick parts, and parts I can hold with rubber bands. I used it on the horse in the Revell reissue of the Gold Knight, for example. I use it also on big ship hull halves sometimes. Put a little glue on both parts, let it sit a minute, and clamp together. its VERY strong. It just will take a day or two for the cement to fully set.

CA glue like Zap A Gap is great for springy parts or parts that are hard to clamp but need to be set quickly. Its not so good for parts that have to be adjusted, though. CA is also good for kits that may have resin, metal, vinyl, etc. parts, as it will glue most dissimilar materials.

For clear parts I use something like Gator's Grip Glue which is a very sticky tacky acrylic white glue. It also holds photo etch pretty well and you can move the part around, unlike with CA glue. 

There are other glues that are useful. If you can find it, Tenax or Pro Weld are thin, liquid 'welder" type glues. They are much hotter than the Tamiya stuff, but will really melt parts together (or turn them into soft goo if you flood it on incorrectly).

If parts keep falling off your model it may be that you have a poor bond to start with. Nearly all plastic cements work best on bare plastic and don't stick to paint. Even CA glue will often pop off, taking a layer of paint with it, but leaving the bare plastic untouched. You may also find most kits have a poor assembly sequence and recommend gluing small or fragile parts on early in assembly, forcing you to work around them. Glue them on last, either right before painting, or after painting, and touch them up later.


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## btbrush (Sep 20, 2010)

Yeah, what djnick66 said. But for plastic I use methylene chloride. I get it at a local janitorial supply house cuz it's used as a base for most paint strippers. Tenex and Weldon I think you'll find is Methyl Ethyl Ketone (MEK). Quite good and heavier bodied. MC is nasty stuff but thinner than water and welds like crazy. I get a gallon for around $30, check against Weldon, and it lasts me for years.


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

btbrush said:


> Yeah, what djnick66 said. But for plastic I use methylene chloride. I get it at a local janitorial supply house cuz it's used as a base for most paint strippers. Tenex and Weldon I think you'll find is Methyl Ethyl Ketone (MEK). Quite good and heavier bodied. MC is nasty stuff but thinner than water and welds like crazy. I get a gallon for around $30, check against Weldon, and it lasts me for years.


I bought a can of MEK at Wal Mart... i use it also in place of Tenax. Its something like $8 for a quart versus $4 for a couple ounces of Tenax.


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

I like Fallers "Expert" withe the steel needle/tube for application. (for most plastics)
Testors in the bottle
Plastruct (both bottled glues)

for Balsa wood I use CA - medium

for metals I use epoxy or CA

For motors mounted to HO scale model RR frame, I use Plumbers goop

Elmers is OK for scenery and balsa, and cardboard.

Hot glue is OK for light wood structures.


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## 650bill (May 23, 2011)

*This is great stuff*

The information submitted by members regarding my question on gluing is what this forum is all about. This is information we can all learn from. One will not find all of this information in any one publication because no writing will ever expose everyone's experences when it comes to preferences of adheistives.

I feel JP is correct in his statement that model building requires more than one type of glue or cement.
650bill


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## Ace Airspeed (May 16, 2010)

650bill said:


> I feel JP is correct in his statement that model building requires more than one type of glue or cement.
> 650bill


That he is. I use:

Testor's tube cement

Testor's liquid cement (not as "hot" as Tenax)

Tenax

CA - gel and fast set

Watch crystal cement (great for clear parts that need good adhesion - dries crystal clear)

Gator Glue (tacky white for PE and clear- dries clear)

Tack glue (very tacky white for all manner of stuff - dries clear)


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## 650bill (May 23, 2011)

*Starting a new build*

I am putting the final touches on a Messerschmitt bf.110g night fighter. It is a 1/72 scale made by Frog. John writes that these were sold during the 1950's thru the 70's. The build was ok, but I doubt if the decals will work, they being so old.

I will post a photo of it anyway.

My new build is a 1/72 B-25 Mitchell by Airfix. The injection molding seems good enough, but I am not impressed with the decales. It will probably take most of the year to complete the build.

What I say next is for all other members here who struggle with model building, yet we do it because we love what it returns to us.

If I can build a model, I know that all of you here can do better than me. I say this because I want to encourage those who hesitate or are lurkers. WHY?

10 years ago I became totally paralized from time spent in Southeast Asia during the 60's. I got a dose of agent orange. Years later I became a quadrapledgic, loosing the use of both hands, amoung other losses.

One day not too long ago decided I was going to attempt to build model aircraft, regardless of how bad the end result was. The first 2 were pretty rough. I can't even squeeze a tube of glue or work a pair of pliers or tweesers, or even button a button.

All of my models are and will have to be hand painted because I can't compress the button on a spray can or paint sprayer.

In spite of all the difficulties and frustrations and the times I want to quit, I encourage anyone here to keep building models, regarsdless of how they end up. If you have a disability, and I am sure there are those here who do, get involved, because I know you can do beetter than I do.

I'll go further, I will post a photo of my finished product and that way the pressure will be off the rest of you that hesitate. Rember, along with all that I have said, we have our master modelers here to continuely urge us on.

Finally, no one has to comment on our finished products, it being enough to say to the field, here's what I did and it's posted on the site for others to see. The therapic value that comes from this type of achievement can not be measured by anything except our own personal pride.

So what do you say eh? I'll be the bench mark for everyone else.

650bill


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## Ace Airspeed (May 16, 2010)

The end result is not the goal in building models, Bill..............it's *all* about having fun and enjoying yourself while you're building.


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## bert model maker (Feb 19, 2002)

Whats the difference between the testors tube & squeeze bottle cements ? i thought is was the same stuff, only in different containers. What makes one testors better than the other ?


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

bert model maker said:


> Whats the difference between the testors tube & squeeze bottle cements ? i thought is was the same stuff, only in different containers. What makes one testors better than the other ?


The tube stuff is thicker and, IMHO a bit more "hot". The glue in the squeeze bottles is thinner (they call it liquid but its not as thin as the stuff in the glass jar) and does not seem to be as "hot". it dries much slower and I dont think bonds as well. 

I do use the black applicator bottle stuff now and then for things that I want to dry slowly. It is good for individual track links on Dragon tanks. You can glue all 100ish links together to form a complete track, let it cure 10-15 minutes, and bend it easily around the kit wheels for a perfect fit.


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## bert model maker (Feb 19, 2002)

I have both the tube & black bottle testors and also an unopened ambroid pro-weld. never used it before and need it for henrys launch tower. the pro-weld is mainly a 'capillary action" kind of application right ? how is is for cementing small individule parts such as the small thruster nozzels of apollo spacecraft such as the lunar module ? Something to cement fast and strong ? With pro-weld does it work better by applying the cement to 1 part only Or does pro-weld need to be applied to both parts then joined together ?


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

the liquid type glues have different hotnesses too. Pro Weld and Tenax (along with just Hardware store MEK which is the same thing basically) evaporate so fast they work best by holding the parts together then touching the glue to the seam and letting it capillary action down the joint. I use t his stuff mostly for larger, halved type assemblies like an airplane fuselage or ship hull half. Its harder to apply to one part and then stick it in place because the glue will have evaporated. It can also turn small parts to mush if you use too much. 

For general model assembly I use Tamiya Extra Thin Cement or Gunze Mr.Cement S (Styrene). They are not as hot and do not evaporate so fast. You can apply this to one part and it will remain wet until you stick it in place. It will also work via capillary action

If you need to stick on small parts neatly you might use the Testors black applicator glue. Its very neat although it dries very very slowly compared to the liquid type brush on glues.

I use Tamiya (regular) Cement to stick smaller parts in place. It comes in a bottle with an orange cap. Its a lot thicker than the Extra Thin Cement and while it has a brush you can use a smaller brush or tooth pick to apply the glue to specific areas.


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## MadCap Romanian (Oct 29, 2005)

Testor's glue doesn't bond? HA! Try taking appart a reject model car you found in the Salvation Army that an 8 year old built! 

Remember that you HAVE to scrape off the paint and/or chrome plating on the model where you want the two pieces to glue together. Testor's glues plastic to plastic. It won't glue paint to paint or paint to plastic.


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## 650bill (May 23, 2011)

*glue on paint*

This is the second time on this post that gluing to paint does not work, and when I made the original posting here, I have known that fact for, lets see now, about 10 years. 

Gentlemen, I AM TALKING ABOUT TESTORS NOT GLUING UNPAINTED PLASTIC PARTS TOGETHER.

Maybe the problem is with the poloyurathane plastic, or the grinding compound when they were injecting, I don't know, but I do know that one problem I had with the entire model was the testors not bonding. I ended up using JB Weld instead.
650bill


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

Not all kits are molded in styrene plastic, and not all styrene plastic is identical either.

Older kits were made from very hard plastic that may be harder for some of the less potent glues to bond. Most modern styrene kits used a softer plastic that seems to be more reactive to glues. Some kits are molded in ABS plastic which is slightly rubbery. Many weaker glues will not bond ABS either. Pegasus molds a lot of their kits in ABS. Trumpeter molded a lot of their older motorized tanks and ships in ABS as well. Some of the grade Z Chicom crap kits like Zhengdefu, Mini Hobbie, etc. may use ABS or some other funky, ungluable crap. Vinyl kits (usually figures) also can not be glued with regular model cement. Those need CA glue.

Also with styrene glues and tube glue... more is not better. A small amount will hold quickly and dry quickly. Globs and globs of the stuff will not set properly and the parts can fall off. For the glue to work, plastic still has to touch plastic. If you use so much glue that the plastic is seperated by a thick layer of glue, when the glue dries, the part will fall off.

I always wondered when i had my shop how people would go through like 4 tubes of glue on one model. Used properly one regular tube of Testors glue should build 6-10 models easily, if not more.


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## bert model maker (Feb 19, 2002)

Thanks for explaining that, i will stick with the testors for the smaller parts. Back to the topic, The plastic must have something like ABS that prvents the cement to work. is there any information on the model box or instructions that say what kind of glue to use ? maybe something in the mold release agent.


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

bert model maker said:


> Thanks for explaining that, i will stick with the testors for the smaller parts. Back to the topic, The plastic must have something like ABS that prvents the cement to work. is there any information on the model box or instructions that say what kind of glue to use ? maybe something in the mold release agent.


I rarely ever wash a kit, and I have been building models for almost 40 years now. The only ones I recall having any issue with were some Russian-made kits by ICM that looked like the sprues were dipped in cooking oil. The plastic bags that held the sprues even had oil in them! Nothing some Super Clean or Dawn wouldn't take care of.

The Pegasus kits that come in ABS say so on the instructions and recommend what glues work (and don't work). Polar Lights had some ABS stuff and they did not say it was ABS. You just have to have a feel for the stuff. ABS is very smooth and sort of rubbery. Its what they mold hulls in for battery powered boats... it does not shatter like styrene will.

I have a Nichimo Yamato kit that has ABS and Styrene parts and the kit does call out both kinds of plastic and the kit even included dozens of little tubes of ABS and Styrene glues for the various parts.

A good quality glue like Tamiya Extra Thin or Tenax should bond about any plastic. My son tried to build some ABS Trumpeter tank kits using Testors cement in the black applicator and it would not work at all. CA glue does not bond ABS well and will actually just sit there and not cure.

I got to thinking too, and that while too much glue can make for a weak joint, not enough is just as bad. Solvent type glues work by softening the plastic so when you push the parts together, the melted plastic fuses together along the joint and welds the two pieces together. If you apply a small amount of glue, and it dries out before you can get the parts togther, it may not have the strength to weld the parts together. Same with the liquid glues. They evaporate so quickly that if you brush it on one part, pick up a second part and then try to fit them together, the glue may have evaporated off. Instead hold the parts together and touch the joint with the glue brush.


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## bert model maker (Feb 19, 2002)

never having used the pro-weld, I had a feeling it could evaporate to quickly but was not sure, now i know. I will use that for capilarry action, thanks for clearing that up for me.
Bert


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