# Not to be snarky, but...



## omnimodel (Oct 9, 2004)

If you're going to try to sell a 'How To' manual for $25, shouldn't you have at least completed the task correctly the first time?

http://www.buildingultimatemodels.com/

I don't get the light up intercoollers and outer warp nacelles


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## Jim NCC1701A (Nov 6, 2000)

Oh boy, here we go again. The Blingoprise.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

http://www.buildingultimatemodels.com/images/00 Saucer Section09.JPG
I like the cargo module decals on the bridge! :freak:

I can't tell what kit that is.


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## Magesblood (May 12, 2008)

that thing gives me a migraine.


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## robiwon (Oct 20, 2006)

Locked in 5...4...3...2...


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

It's certainly shiny!


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## zysurge (Sep 6, 2002)

John P said:


> http://www.buildingultimatemodels.com/images/00 Saucer Section09.JPG
> I like the cargo module decals on the bridge! :freak:
> 
> I can't tell what kit that is.


Believe it or not, it's a DeBoer.


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## Prowler901 (Jun 27, 2005)

zysurge said:


> Believe it or not, it's a DeBoer.


What a crime...


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## USS Atlantis (Feb 23, 2008)

To add insult to injury

He's the "sponsor" of the latest FSM E-Newsletter

I canceled my FSM subscription immediately


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## JGG1701 (Nov 9, 2004)

Come on guys are we not allowed to at least complement the hard work and effort that he put into this?????????????:freak:
-Jim


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## omnimodel (Oct 9, 2004)

USS Atlantis said:


> To add insult to injury
> 
> He's the "sponsor" of the latest FSM E-Newsletter
> 
> I canceled my FSM subscription immediately


That was how I stumbled across it.


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## USS Atlantis (Feb 23, 2008)

Ok, I'll admit that it must have taken a lot of hard work to turn a beautiful DeBoer hull into that monstrosity


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## Zorro (Jun 22, 1999)

That's the little known Joel Schumacher version of The Enterprise.


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## Magesblood (May 12, 2008)

JGG1701 said:


> Come on guys are we not allowed to at least complement the hard work and effort that he put into this?????????????:freak:
> -Jim


Sorry J, gotta disagree with you here.

Hard work and effort denotes the modeler put some time into researching his subject and taking the time to do it right - at least somewhat. This is just sloppy and contrived. He spent however much the going rate the DeBoer is and turned it into a sow's ear...


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## bigdaddydaveh (Jul 20, 2007)

The trees do look very nice in the botanical gardens. I'll give him that much.


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## joejoejedi (Mar 19, 2006)

I agree with Magesblood, There is so much information out there on the Enterprise,be sides watching the movies for info and hitting the pasue button how do you mess up a model this sides, and the price of the kit. Please


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## RMBurnett (Jan 12, 2005)

*NOW I understand...*

Folks,

On that dude's website, he posts this under his special thanks:

"1) First and foremost, I thank the Lord God and his son, my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ for giving me the dream, ability, talents, and knowledge to build this project. For sticking close to me when I had failures in the construction and encouraging me when I was about ready to quit. I dedicate my finished project back to Him."

So...what we have here is the CREATIONIST version of the Refit. Why look at ample available information, photo reference or the work of other, "peer reviewed" models, such as the recent work of Trekmodeler...when you can just believe that's how the Refit should look.

I think if Jesus did, in fact, stick close to him when he had failures in the construction and did, in fact, encourage him when he was ready to quit, Jesus would have also directed him to log onto the internet and surf on over to Hobbytalk.


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## X15-A2 (Jan 21, 2004)

Obviously J.C. isn't a trek fan. Shame, really...


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## GKvfx (May 30, 2008)

I feel like Charlie Brown stumbling across Snoopy's doghouse......










Gene


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

RMBurnett said:


> Folks,
> 
> On that dude's website, he posts this under his special thanks:
> 
> ...


Is there a reason to mock someones religion just because YOU don't like the way he painted a model? Even tongue in cheek, it seems a bit "small". Is his kit accurate, no, should he call it the "Ultimite", no, but he is proud of his interpretation. The best part of being a religious person for me is being able to forgive people for their feelings of me, I hope this gentleman can do the same.


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## Atemylunch (Jan 16, 2006)

RSN said:


> Is there a reason to mock someones religion just because YOU don't like the way he painted a model? Even tongue in cheek, it seems a bit "small". Is his kit accurate, no, should he call it the "Ultimite", no, but he is proud of his interpretation. The best part of being a religious person for me is being able to forgive people for their feelings of me, I hope this gentleman can do the same.


I don't get mocking the guys religion either. I don't think there is modeler out there that doesn't recite some sort of prayer before they do anything to a model. 
I can think of one right off the bat.
"Please God, don't let me..."

I saw the guys site yesterday, I don't blame him for making something he can make a little money on. And he will.


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## Hunch (Apr 6, 2003)

Pimp my 'Prise.


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## USS Atlantis (Feb 23, 2008)

Atemylunch said:


> I saw the guys site yesterday, I don't blame him for making something he can make a little money on. And he will.


Unfortunately, you're probably right.

As PT Barnum said "There's a sucker born every minute"


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## Fozzie (May 25, 2009)

Zorro said:


> That's the little known Joel Schumacher version of The Enterprise.


Now THAT is funny. :thumbsup:


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## Arronax (Apr 6, 1999)

Will the Discoprise ever go away?

I'm sorry but I saw this "model" as an entry at Wonderfest. It created a lot of attention and won gold - while it's builder stood in the contest room, handing out flyers that told you how to build your own big flashy starship thingy.

There was considerable debate as to whether this model should have been in the dealers room or contest room. I think you can figure out my feelings on this.

Even if I liked the end result, I'd never buy anything from this guy because of his antics at Wonderfest.

Jim


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## Jim NCC1701A (Nov 6, 2000)

Arronax said:


> There was considerable debate as to whether this model should have been in the dealers room or contest room. I think you can figure out my feelings on this.


For sure, there was a lot of bandwidth dedicated to that debate. And more than a few locked topics too as I recall.

One very polarising subject...


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## omnimodel (Oct 9, 2004)

THAT won Gold? Was it the only thing in its category, or had the judges just missed Star Trek 1-6?


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## USS Atlantis (Feb 23, 2008)

omnimodel said:


> THAT won Gold? Was it the only thing in its category, or had the judges just missed Star Trek 1-6?


I personally think the judges were blinded by all the lights (and sequins) and accidentally marked the wrong box


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

That is definitely not my cup of tea but I can see where it may have captured his imagination if not that of some other people. 

He has placed his stuff out there and is offering a product for sale in conjunction with it so it seems fair to criticize the lack of accuracy of the model and the paint job and other construction features as well as his public behavior since all come into play in terms of the quality of his product and his reliability as a merchant. 

He seems to have put a lot of work into many of the glaring inaccuracies, unnecessarily lighting many things. It's his choice to build it the way he wants. However, there are some jagged edges to the arbitrary paint scheme. I can't imagine any judge looking favorably upon such features. Ironically, many of the goofs with the paint job would be less noticeable if he'd Aztecked it and weathered it, etc. The ship can be built without the Aztec paneling but there' a lot more to the paint scheme than what he did.

That being said, from the general description of his behavior, blaming his religion for his actions is placing the cart before the horse. There's a lot more going on (or not) than meets the eye.


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## miraclefan (Apr 11, 2009)

Dont really know what to say here.


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## Dyonisis (Nov 11, 2009)

Hunch said:


> Pimp my 'Prise.


HAHAHAHAAAAA!!!!! Now _THAT'S_ funny - I don't care who you are!! That's funny right there! :tongue:


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## Storvick (Jan 21, 2003)

Next time warn us to put on sun glasses before posting that.


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## flyingfrets (Oct 19, 2001)




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## joejoejedi (Mar 19, 2006)

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha


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## jheilman (Aug 30, 2001)

Saw this at Wonderfest too. From a distance, I was ready to be impressed. The closer I got, the more confused I was. When I was next to it, I was just dumbfounded. It reminds me of the house in your neighborhood that just goes WAY too far with the outdoor Christmas decorations. No spot left uncovered. Everything flashes and spins and beeps and so much of it detracts rather than enhances.

I was more impressed by the nicely done PL kit on a nearby table.

And that website needs some real help in the graphics department. Yikes.


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## Zorro (Jun 22, 1999)

RSN said:


> Is there a reason to mock someones religion just because YOU don't like the way he painted a model? Even tongue in cheek, it seems a bit "small". Is his kit accurate, no, should he call it the "Ultimite", no, but he is proud of his interpretation. The best part of being a religious person for me is being able to forgive people for their feelings of me, I hope this gentleman can do the same.


Not being a Trekker by any stretch of the imagination I couldn't care less how he painted it - but his assertion that at least two thirds of The Holy Trinity took part in the project _does_ seem somewhat presumptuous, if not downright arrogant. 

But I forgive him.


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

Zorro said:


> Not being a Trekker by any stretch of the imagination I couldn't care less how he painted it - but his assertion that at least two thirds of The Holy Trinity took part in the project _does_ seem somewhat presumptuous, if not downright arrogant.
> 
> But I forgive him.


Just for the uninformed, the entire Trinty is with us on EVERYTHING we do! It is up to you to trust in that. I know that is where all my skills come from. A lot of people are good at saying what is wrong with other people's builds, (even I do it from time to time!) how did your refit projects turn out. I know when I start mine, many mistakes will be made and it will not look like the preception of the studio miniature. But I also don't intend to replicate things like scratched paint, (the FX guys admit to it, on the blur-ray of TMP the pennant appears to be marred as the ship leaves drydock) or penciled on detail. Probably 2 or 3 months from starting, will post pics.

God bless and HAPPY modeling!


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## USS Atlantis (Feb 23, 2008)

Let's just leave articles of faith out of the discussion

As a non-Christian myself, I find it un-inviting to say the least


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

USS Atlantis said:


> Let's just leave articles of faith out of the discussion
> 
> As a non-Christian myself, I find it un-inviting to say the least


Cool. Done deal!


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Zorro said:


> Not being a Trekker by any stretch of the imagination I couldn't care less how he painted it - but his assertion that at least two thirds of The Holy Trinity took part in the project _does_ seem somewhat presumptuous, if not downright arrogant.


_Some_ people will focus on anything. Religion is a particularly popular subject due to the implied power. But by the same token the obsession could be politics, _Star Trek_, environmentalism, or who knows what else. We've seen a lot of different obsessions on this bbs. 

For an extreme example to illustrate my point: if I were to see a delusional person who thinks he's talking to God on a street corner, I would not blame the fact that he's a Christian (or Jew or Muslim or whatever) for his behavior. There's obviously something else going on there.


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## Zorro (Jun 22, 1999)

PerfesserCoffee said:


> _Some_ people will focus on anything. Religion is a particularly popular subject due to the implied power. But by the same token the obsession could be politics, _Star Trek_, environmentalism, or who knows what else. We've seen a lot of different obsessions on this bbs.


There are people who are obsessed with _Star Trek_? 

I find that hard to believe.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

We had a holy trinity in our house when I was a kid. My father and grandfather were also named John, and when we all lived in the same house, Mom referred to us, from Pop down to me, as "John the Father, John the Son, and John the Holy Terror."


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## Griffworks (Jun 24, 2002)

No, John! I can't picture you as a Holy Terror - either as a child or now! Not at all. 





OK, folks - *religion is a subject that is VERBOTEN here at H.T.* That's nothing new and it's only one of two subjects (politics being the other) which aren't to be discussed, per Hanksters rules, because they almost always end up in ugliness. Let's keep it out of our discussions, beyond the basic comment that it was brought up in something which is a part of the discussion. In other words, you can say "wow, I can't believe he said this", but that's as far as the topic of religion needs to play in to any subject thread here. 

Thank you for your cooperation. :thumbsup:

.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

I think this guy inspired me to add this to my website:
"I'd like to thank The Force for granting me the midichlorians to be a decent modeler, so I have something to pass the time other than levitating rocks."


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

Zorro said:


> There are people who are obsessed with _Star Trek_?
> 
> I find that hard to believe.


It is true! (Tongue firmly in cheek!) I have been involved in running conventions for 30 years, and I have seen all sides of Trekdom. The good, the bad AND the ugly. Passionate buch, they care more about the show than the people who make is. (Trust me, 30 years of inside info!) I say any Enterprise that looks "different" is just from an alternate time line. Then no one can tell you it is wrong!


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## bccanfield (Nov 17, 2002)

I heard that ship was commanded by Captain Clark W Griswold VI. Ok so its a little different look-- call it a "kit bash-light", or ... yet another alternative timeline. The building skills and techniques are quite good.


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## Steve244 (Jul 22, 2001)

miraclefan said:


> Dont really know what to say here.


Well he is from Texas. Everything there is a larger than life from what I understand.

A friend of mine moved to Dallas and saw this at a local show. He was especially impressed by the mirrored display. I have yet to thank him for bringing it to my attention.


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## flyingfrets (Oct 19, 2001)

That monstrosity was in a *mirrored display*?!!?  I hope they were handing out welder's masks at the door...


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## mikephys (Mar 16, 2005)

RSN said:


> I say any Enterprise that looks "different" is just from an alternate time line. Then no one can tell you it is wrong!


I love it! You just made my day!:jest:


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## Jim NCC1701A (Nov 6, 2000)

flyingfrets said:


> That monstrosity was in a *mirrored display*?!!?


Mirrored display _*and*_ themes from various Trek movies blaring out from speakers built into the display.
Couldn't help but know the thing was there when you walked into the contest room...


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## Steve244 (Jul 22, 2001)

apparently it generates mixed feelings:



> Subject: Oh Wow.
> Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 12:58:42 -0500
> From: *****
> To: *****
> ...


In his defense, my friend is easily distracted by women.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Steve244 said:


> In his defense, my friend is easily distracted by women.


And not just because they're hot (riiiiiiiiiight!).


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

> Too bad he didn’t get first place. I beat his [enterprise] with a little Klingon Bird of Prey.


Sometimes, less is definitely _more!_:thumbsup:


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## RMBurnett (Jan 12, 2005)

*I certainly didn't mean to offend...*

Folks,

Um...I certainly didn't mean to offend anyone. I mean...the title of this thread is "Not to be snarky, but..." So I decided to be snarky while at the same time trying to be cheeky about the endless creationism vs. science debate. 

However, this guy goes ahead and thanks the Holy Trinity for standing by him while he builds his model and then presumes to SELL a brochure on how to recreate the awesome, divinely influenced Enterprise to others. THAT I find questionable.

I certainly wouldn't want my children (if I had any) learning how to build a refit from that dude. I don't think any of the other posters here would either. 

Finally, I leave you with this..."What does God need with a Starship?".


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## JGG1701 (Nov 9, 2004)

flyingfrets said:


> That monstrosity was in a *mirrored display*?


Mine is displayed on a mirror.................. Does it make mine bad too?
-Jim


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## Steve244 (Jul 22, 2001)

Well, no. But to be fair yours doesn't have mirrors top bottom and back with mood lighting and music. I wonder where he got the idea?


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## Dyonisis (Nov 11, 2009)

RMBurnett said:


> Folks,
> 
> Um...I certainly didn't mean to offend anyone. I mean...the title of this thread is "Not to be snarky, but..." So I decided to be snarky while at the same time trying to be cheeky about the endless creationism vs. science debate.
> 
> ...


That's a good question! OK,people. Coming from 30 years plus experience with model building on all levels - I must say this: I too,am a Christian. God made all creation - Jesus tries to save it,and I build models for it. I can't speak for anyone else,but when I learned what I know,it was all from trial and error - not God standing next to me telling me what to do next.  I give credit where credit is truly due! I'm not a Trekkie,but even I know when something has gone too far! This hipgangster version of the Enterprise is so gawdy - why would you want a mirror image of it?!?!?! :tongue:


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## flyingfrets (Oct 19, 2001)

JGG1701 said:


> Mine is displayed on a mirror.................. Does it make mine bad too?
> -Jim


No. But yours isn't lit up like Times Square either...:tongue:


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## JGG1701 (Nov 9, 2004)

flyingfrets said:


> No. But yours isn't lit up like Times Square either...:tongue:


Don't know 'bout that.

http://s377.photobucket.com/albums/oo218/JGG1701/?action=view&current=aba10df6.pbr


-Jim


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## flyingfrets (Oct 19, 2001)

JGG1701 said:


> Don't know 'bout that.
> 
> http://s377.photobucket.com/albums/oo218/JGG1701/?action=view&current=aba10df6.pbr
> 
> ...


Okay. You win. Yours is bad too...


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## charonjr (Mar 27, 2000)

The DeBoers does look kinda cute....as a toy, perhaps. I'm sorry my sense of appreciation doesn't extend to this interpretation of the ship. It looks nice and is bright and flashy, but I wouldn't do her that way. Just me.


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## scotpens (Sep 6, 2003)

Steve244 said:


> . . . to be fair yours doesn't have mirrors top bottom and back with mood lighting and music. I wonder where he got the idea?


Maybe from this guy?


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## jgoldsack (Apr 26, 2004)

i was looking at the pictures and my wife walks in and says... "wow who butchered that model?"....

He def put a lot of effort in, and i commend him on that.,... but...

ugh.


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

Too subtle. Needs an aztec.


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## Zorro (Jun 22, 1999)

SteveR said:


> Too subtle. Needs an aztec.


Yeah, but then he'd have to thank Quetzalcoatl for his airbrush technique.


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## Atemylunch (Jan 16, 2006)

JGG1701 said:


> Don't know 'bout that.
> 
> http://s377.photobucket.com/albums/oo218/JGG1701/?action=view&current=aba10df6.pbr
> 
> ...


With all of that support I thought it was an Unobtainium E.


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## Magesblood (May 12, 2008)

unobtanium was a TOS, if I'm not mistaken.


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## JGG1701 (Nov 9, 2004)

Atemylunch said:


> With all of that support I thought it was an Unobtainium E.


Supports were hand made. Probably doesn't needs them but ya never know.
-Jim


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## Atemylunch (Jan 16, 2006)

JGG1701 said:


> Supports were hand made. Probably doesn't needs them but ya never know.
> -Jim


It's a diorama of the E in the Smithsonian.


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## halcyon_daze (Jan 6, 2004)

Steve244 said:


> Well he is from Texas. Everything there is a larger than life from what I understand.
> 
> A friend of mine moved to Dallas and saw this at a local show. He was especially impressed by the mirrored display. I have yet to thank him for bringing it to my attention.


Yep he's from my area and made an appearance at the local IPMS chapter for a discussion on lighting models, which I didn't see. I first heard about him in their newsletter that had a link to his site (and manual). Being as clueless about the subject as he is (they're all aircraft modelers), they gave him their ringing endorsement.

I knew there was a good reason I stopped going to that chapter's meetings. :tongue:


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## Landru (May 25, 2009)

Getting something _right_ is a personal preference. Maybe he didn't want to get it screen accurate. It takes skill to get anything done like that, especially with lighting. 

I really don't get the big deal about this model. Sure it's not screen accurate, but who cares, it's a great bit of lighting anway. 
If I made put that much effort into a model (any model) to only to find some of the comments I've seen, I think I'd be pretty upset.

For a show that we all love for it's moral values, some of these comments that I've seen upset _me_.

For what it's worth, I love the job you did!


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## scotpens (Sep 6, 2003)

Landru said:


> If I made put that much effort into a model (any model) to only to find some of the comments I've seen, I think I'd be pretty upset.


While I can appreciate your viewpoint, I might also point out that it must have taken a lot of effort to build this car. That doesn't mean I have to like it.


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## junglelord (Mar 6, 2007)

Landru said:


> Getting something _right_ is a personal preference. Maybe he didn't want to get it screen accurate. It takes skill to get anything done like that, especially with lighting.
> 
> I really don't get the big deal about this model. Sure it's not screen accurate, but who cares, it's a great bit of lighting anway.
> If I made put that much effort into a model (any model) to only to find some of the comments I've seen, I think I'd be pretty upset.
> ...


I have too agree.


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## CaptFrank (Jan 29, 2005)

Is the problem here that he lit every window?

What's wrong with that?


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## bigdaddydaveh (Jul 20, 2007)

Zorro said:


> Yeah, but then he'd have to thank Quetzalcoatl for his airbrush technique.


I think I just soiled myself! Too funny!


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

CaptFrank said:


> Is the problem here that he lit every window?
> 
> What's wrong with that?


He lit _more _than every window! (The outer engine grills, and the brass domes ahead of them, are NOT supposed to be lit. And I see other places with LEDs sticking out where lights don't even belong).

I think the main criticisms stem from his claims to be a master at his craft (and his mention of devine aid), when his painting work is not very good at all, and his lighting work borders on looking like a Saturday night in the 70s.

Plus the fact that he heaped this abuse on one of the very few DeBoer kits available, a kit that all of us would love to be able to afford and give the TLC needed to do our best screen-accurate paint job.


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## hubert (May 3, 2008)

Bunch of 'stuck-up' pansies on this forum. I mean, complaining about everything from religion bias to this guy's bling. You may not like his result but he must (and that's all he needs to satisfy).

I mean, even 'Jesus' once modeled the Enterprise...

http://images.google.com/imgres?img...org.mozilla:en-US:official&sa=N&start=80&um=1



</sarcasm> (except for the 'need to satisfy' part)


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## jgoldsack (Apr 26, 2004)

hubert said:


> Bunch of 'stuck-up' pansies on this forum. I mean, complaining about everything from religion bias to this guy's bling. You may not like his result but he must (and that's all he needs to satisfy).
> 
> I mean, even 'Jesus' once modeled the Enterprise...
> 
> ...




i don't think there would have been as big an issue if he didn't claim to be a master, and try and hawk "guides" so ignorant people could make a model like his. His work is not good enough to claim mastery, IMO. 

If he had claimed it as his own impressionist version, his own personal taste, then fine.. but he didn't.


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## Steve244 (Jul 22, 2001)

I dunno, it kinda grows on you....


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## falcondesigns (Oct 30, 2002)

If you like Vegas.....


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

OMG, I didn't realize there were twirly lights too! :lol:


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

jgoldsack said:


> i don't think there would have been as big an issue if he didn't claim to be a master, and try and hawk "guides" so ignorant people could make a model like his. His work is not good enough to claim mastery, IMO.
> 
> If he had claimed it as his own impressionist version, his own personal taste, then fine.. but he didn't.


My thoughts exactly. When I started reading the first post, I thought that harsh criticism would be uncalled for UNTIL I saw that he was selling a "how-to" guide. AT THAT POINT, he crosses the line. 

Without offering a product, he would have to be viewed as a talented but uninformed amateur who needs praise for the good parts of his model and gentle nudges towards reference resources and techniques he may want to use in the next model. After all, praise that is not based on a critical look at the model is condescending and pretty much useless for those who really want some help.

However, once someone offers merchandise based on his model, he is fair game for having his model and selling techniques criticized, IMHO, without getting nasty, of course. 

Let's face it, some folks have the knack (in our case, a combination of artistic talent, eye for details, willingness to research, etc.) and others don't. 

Even some of those that have the knack and offer products for sale are not reliable in terms of chronically not delivering the product someone has given them money for. (Though seller bashing threads are not allowed here, there are means of rating sellers and warning others.)

Information is the key and as long as posts don't cross the line into needless bashing, etc., I'd say critiques are appropriate.


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## Dyonisis (Nov 11, 2009)

I'm sorry,but at the risk of offending anyone here,or there I have to say that um,Vegasprise!!!!:tongue::freak: Hell,who do I think I'm kidding? That's hilarious!!:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: I don't care anymore. Like I said before - this thing's so gawdy,who'd want a mirror image of it????? The ridiculous claims of this bring bad memories of another forum that I won't mention because of its' elite snobbery,but I'd rather be humble than stuckup!


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## compucrap (Dec 16, 2000)

where do you put in the coins and where do I pull the lever?

wait... I think I just got a jackpot?

In this guys defense I don't see any visible seam lines so he either did a decent job assembling this or the lights are all an elaborate plan to distract and blind you in such a way that the seams aren't visible. 

I must find out the masters secrets!


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## Steve244 (Jul 22, 2001)

I think you're missing the invisible is all.

"If you can visualize the invisible in your mind, you can materialize the impossible with your hands."


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## compucrap (Dec 16, 2000)

haha, that video is great.

I bet this enterprise would be awesome if it came with a hit of acid!


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## joejoejedi (Mar 19, 2006)

ok the first video I was waiting for it to explode:drunk::drunk:


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## Magesblood (May 12, 2008)

he made an informercial! The humanity!


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## cireskul (Jul 16, 2006)

What Junk. As for WF Gold.......nuts.


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## WarpCore Breach (Apr 27, 2005)

Inasmuch as any of us have the right to disagree with his methods and final result, I also think it's also important to not to cross the line by resorting to petty sniping to outright hatred. It's an effect of the Internet that I can't really understand. Hiding behind the anonymity of the Net to be thoroughly crappy and disgusting? (this is a general blanket observation on the Net as a whole, not specific to this forum)

Okay, he used a Deboer hull, most certainly a highly desired and expensive kit. While it's difficult to see the actual construction of the model, from a distance it appears construction is at least okay.

It's the painting and lighting that seems to get the most attention. I did find the painting to be basic at best; lacking any real detail. The one shot of the Bridge area (with the cargo pod decals on it) appeared to be a very heavy paint layer, with a texture that was never seen on the Refit mini. Colours chosen for detailing seemed to be too vibrant and garish. (I honestly expect to be more subtle colours based on my own observations of the Refit from TMP.)

The lighting is what really puts this model over the top. The credo of the Mythbusters seems to have to have been the operating principle here: "If it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing" and it shouldn't have been!

Not everyone can handle a DeBoer hull, fewer still has the knowledge to design and build a thorough electronics system. However, I don't consider the process to be "Ultimate" modeling, nor is this a representative model of the Enterprise. Unless upon retirement and refurbishment, the -A became a hotel in Vegas.  It might have looked something like this.


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## Nova Designs (Oct 10, 2000)

The model is awful... the guy's arrogance only makes it worse. that's my opinion and I'm sticking to it. We aren't here to blow smoke up where the sun don't shine. We all model and we all strive to make something like the Enterprise as accurate and perfect as mere mortals can. We don't always succeed, but we try. I don't know what this guy did... but I see no evidence that any research was done nor any knowledge of the subject matter. If we can nitpick the finer details of what the designers intended... then we can certainly call a turd a turd when we see it.

This thing is a stinker. It offends me not because he built it that way, but because he is selling it as the CORRECT way to model the subject. Which it is unarguably NOT.


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

So if I were to judge this, objectively, never having judged:

- accuracy to prototype: aggressively ignored 
- electronics (craft, not taste): complex, but seems to work properly
- assembly (again, craft, not taste): can't see any seams
- paint (again, craft, not taste): too thick
- overall: it's an electronics project, not a model

Any thoughts?


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## USS Atlantis (Feb 23, 2008)

Have to disagree with part of what you said, Steve

Electronics - Craft - seems hurried, more interested in effect rather than form

In many instances, the LED's are sticking way out of the hull - for most of these, the tops should be flush with the hull

One simple thing that he missed - The Phaser emitters on his model are 'always on'


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## zysurge (Sep 6, 2002)

I never noticed the LED's used as the phasers before! Don't care for that at all. 

Several people have commented on paint, but I think his overall hull paint job is very smooth. Not always easy on such a large area. And I can't see any sign of decal film, so his decals are well applied, if not always in the right place.

But overall, it's still a disaster.


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## cireskul (Jul 16, 2006)

I saw this "ship" at WF. This ship lacked attention to basic modeling fundamentals. 
For instance, the windows were simply holes, no attempt to seem like windows. It had a very broad, simplistic paint job. And worst of all the engines were off center and tilted at odd angles to each other.
If you are going to "strut your stuff" you should have "stuff to strut". This was NOT the case with this "ship". 
I found this ship winning anything to be puzzling and disturbing. I began to question the standards used by the judges. I love WF and I hope to never feel that way again.
I'll shut up now.:wave:


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## therefit (Oct 21, 2006)

Zorro said:


> That's the little known Joel Schumacher version of The Enterprise.


ROTHLMAO!!

if joel and liberace had a love child, it'd be this heap!

maybe this is an alternate timeline enterprise designed on the ground in las vegas?


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## Steve244 (Jul 22, 2001)

or by Irwin Allen.


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## terryr (Feb 11, 2001)

The nacelles are really crooked to each other.

Nice toy version though.


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

Steve244 said:


> or by Irwin Allen.


Don't go there man! That is a line that should not be crossed! : )


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## Jim NCC1701A (Nov 6, 2000)

John P said:


> OMG, I didn't realize there were twirly lights too! :lol:


_That's_ what you get for missing Wonderfest John. You coulda seen it first hand in all it's visual and aural glory...


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## compucrap (Dec 16, 2000)

just in case you were wondering if it was a refit or the A. And yes that dog is wearing a bowtie!


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## CaptFrank (Jan 29, 2005)

JohnP quipped:


> ...he heaped this abuse on one of the very few DeBoer kits available...


That's funny!:lol:


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## Bradleyfett (Jan 22, 2003)

The guy is a just odd. I've known several like him in various hobby-based industries.

He has some talent, a good bit of skill, a LOT of enthusiasm about the subject matter and a very well-developed entrepreneurial spirit. However, he seems to have NO artistic sense. Not artistic _talent_ or _skill_, but artistic '_sense_'. 

This is actually most apparant in the way he put together his display rather than the ship itself. Even if the E itself has been done well, the signs, lights, graphics, etc., are all bunched up around the model, destroying any sense of the big E being in space, not to mention making it difficult to view the model from all angles (which some of you noted may be intentional). The model needs some 'air' around it. The additional display materials should be next to, or otherwise seperated from the model itself.

And then there is all the chrome...

This reminds me of the George Barris film cars (Batmobile, Munster Coach, etc.) displayed at events with the name of the show and Barris' company logo painted ON THE CAR!

The whole thing is just very... flea market.

In a attempt to remove all snarkyness, I'd say this guy has _raw_ talent, but needs a good long apprenticeship with an accomplished or professional modeler. However, in my experience these kind of folks' ego often prevents the 'openness' required to be able to absorb another person's perspective.

M


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Bradleyfett said:


> In a attempt to remove all snarkyness, I'd say this guy has _raw_ talent, but needs a good long apprenticeship with an accomplished or professional modeler. However, in my experience these kind of folks' ego often prevents the 'openness' required to be able to absorb another person's perspective.


It may not be ego. Judging from the basic problems with the ship just in terms of the build and painting results--not worrying about his "taste"--he _may_ not have the artistic "eye" to begin with. 

From what I've seen, it would seem that the fellow is intelligent. He presents fairly well, seems to have an excellent handle on the electronics, and probably has a degree or two--perhaps related to physics or electronics.

*Generally* speaking--creativity requires intelligence (without taking into account some of the _idiots savant_ and other such specialized cases)

Intelligence, however, does _not_ require creativity--that artistic sense that most here have.

So, generally speaking, if you're creative, you're intelligent.

(That doesn't mean one is necessarily "smart" if "smart" is defined as experience and learning vs. "intelligence" being defined as the brain capability one has due to genetics.)

It_ is _possible that an apprenticeship may help some people if there is the capability within them to begin with--and that may be the case with this fellow--hard to say for sure--he may turn around and develop into another JohnP. 

If someone does not have that innate ability, however, you're attempting to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. With a lot of effort in such a case, you may actually come up with something that looks like a silk purse from a distance, but if you dig beneath the surface, you'll still detect the pigskin.


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## Dar (Apr 20, 2007)

Surprised by many of the comments here. Yes its not an accurate representation of the Enteprise but I couldnt find anywhere on his site that he claims it is. Just that he created an Ultimate model. Actually as an alternate Enterprise its very well done. I cant imagine that he DOESNT know what the TMP-E looks like. He is selling his book if you want to make one of these or help you with other projects. Looks like hes having fun with it. Nothing wrong with that. Again Im sure he knows the E doesnt have twirly lights in the nacelles. 

Sad that so many here are ripping on him.


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## Disillusionist (Apr 19, 2003)

It's ego. You should have seen the stunt he pulled during the awards ceremony at Wonderfest. He made them stop the ceremony so his wife could run up and take pictures of him posing with the presenter.

If that isn't ego....I don't know what is.


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## Dar (Apr 20, 2007)

Disillusionist said:


> It's ego. You should have seen the stunt he pulled during the awards ceremony at Wonderfest. He made them stop the ceremony so his wife could run up and take pictures of him posing with the presenter.
> 
> If that isn't ego....I don't know what is.


I doubt he was being conceit. He was just probably extremely happy and proud and wanted to share it with his wife and dog. If anything maybe he is a little eccentric but I find nothing wrong with that. He seems like a nice guy from the videos and seems to really love model making especially the electronics and lighting part of it. Which is what I think he really wanted to showcase.


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## hubert (May 3, 2008)

Dar said:


> I doubt he was being conceit. He was just probably extremely happy and proud and wanted to share it with his wife and dog. If anything maybe he is a little eccentric but I find nothing wrong with that. He seems like a nice guy from the videos and seems to really love model making especially the electronics and lighting part of it. Which is what I think he really wanted to showcase.


Thanks for reminding us. He's certainly done a better job than any model I'm built in the last 20 years (NONE).

I do laugh, however at some of the infomercial. He has some nice test gear but I think requiring an O-scope, EDA tools, etc. to build a model may be overkill for a novice. 

Still, this is no worse than many projects I've read about before. He built it and is to be congratulated on the job, regardless of our/my personal tastes.


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## Disillusionist (Apr 19, 2003)

Dar said:


> I doubt he was being conceit. He was just probably extremely happy and proud and wanted to share it with his wife and dog. If anything maybe he is a little eccentric but I find nothing wrong with that. He seems like a nice guy from the videos and seems to really love model making especially the electronics and lighting part of it. Which is what I think he really wanted to showcase.


You know, you may very well be right. Perhaps I am being overly harsh. What he did is quite an accomplishment..especially on the electronics end, and he is to be congratulated on that.

I think much of the "snarkyness" comes from people who were at Wonderfest and either interacted directly with him, or observed his actions. I spoke to him....he was a friendly fellow, a little over-eager to sell his manual, but nice enough. His explanations of the inaccuracies was that, "This is my ship. I'm the Captain, and I can make it however I like!" Fair enough. I think opinions started going sour when what was advertised as a special display, somehow ended up in the contest. According to the rules, it should have been disqualified due to size. Had it been left (as originally intended) as a special display, or displayed in the dealer room...I don't think anyone would have had a problem with it. After the show, and I'm not sure if he's still doing this or not, he was touting in various places that the model won "Best of Show". This is innacurate. What it actually received was a gold, and the "hotshot" award. There was no "Best of Show" award. Now, I suppose it's possible he's rather misundertood, and eccentric. And, some will say all should be forgiven for that. But, how people regard you is generally based on your actions, and some of his do seem rather dubious.

As far as the manual goes, I haven't actually read it, so I can't say much. I do think he's mis-marketing it though. Rather than aiming it towards sci-fi modelers, he should be gearing it towards electronics students. I'm sure there's much to be learned about LEDs and various circuits in its pages. Something like that would make a heck of a senior project for a college student. Maybe he shouldn't be calling it "Building Ultimate Models", but instead call it "Building Ultimate Illuminated Electronic Displays"...Or something like that, I dunno.


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## cireskul (Jul 16, 2006)

"Sad that so many here are ripping on him."

Sure, anyone can build a kit to look however they want. No problem with that. But WF...Gold! No way. Bottom Line it was a poor example of model building. I thought WF recognized excellence in model building, am I wrong?


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## Dyonisis (Nov 11, 2009)

This is in response to anyone who has read my replies,as well as everyone elses' here. Be not offended by your fellow modelers' statements,but be humbled that it isn't your model we're "ragging" on. This is only lighthearted ribbing that we're doing. None of this is intended to be crass,or hateful!  We all agree to disagree from time to time. But - we can all agree that this guy is egoed out,and too proud of this build! This isn't something that I would've done myself,as anyone who knows my work - I want accuracy! There's no point in telling anyone that you've built the ulitmate model that's WRONG in many ways! 

This thing's lighted in places that it shouldn't be with mirrors all the way around,which detracts from the display. The dog wearing a bowtie? I thought it was a blindfold when I first glanced at it! :lol::lol: Looking at that in all its' gawdiness makes me wish I had a blindfold! This looks more like a toy than a model. This thing _IS_ a stinker,and we all agree that it could use some help,and it's builder could use some humbling. This has nothing to do with intelligence,or intellect! This is pure ego - plain,and simple. This is what has everyone up in arms. I've been offended by other peoples' egos,but I was poo-pooed for doing so. Why is it any different here? Because this is an obvious selling point for this guy. He's in it for the money,not simply for the love of modeling.

When I disagree with someone else,I too sometimes have trouble expressing tact. This got me into trouble sometimes,I've since toned it down. This can turn into a war of words between members when one is offended by anothers' actions towards them,even if unintentional. The point of this thread isn't to start a pissing match,but to encourage others to be more humble. This guy's just the unfortunate victim of his own lack of tact!


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

Sounds like everyone who entered the contest at Wonder Fest should have a beef with the people running the show, not this guy's model. They decided it was a valid entry and they picked it as the winner. Kind of like a certain someone who won a certain prize for peace that was not deserved. He accepted it anyway, even tho in his speach he admited he was not the one who should have one. (This is meant as an example, not to start a political tirade!) Who among us would turn down an award like this if we were told we won?


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## Kit (Jul 9, 2009)

I feel a little uncomfortable with this thread. There's a lot of ragging on this guy going on here. It doesn't seem to me to be all that lighthearted. If he were somebody "known" on the boards, or he was here defending himself, it seems like the kind of thing that would have been shut down a long time ago. Am I being too sensitive?


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## cireskul (Jul 16, 2006)

"Sounds like everyone who entered the contest at Wonder Fest should have a beef with the people running the show, not this guy's model. They decided it was a valid entry and they picked it as the winner."
Agreed. If this ship is an example of excellence the judges eyes, I need to change my building technique if I ever want a gold. 
Here are the rules... http://www.wonderfest.com/hintsntips.html
Looks like this model broke rule #2. "Overall appearance and symmetry will be examined"


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Kit said:


> I feel a little uncomfortable with this thread. There's a lot of ragging on this guy going on here. It doesn't seem to me to be all that lighthearted. If he were somebody "known" on the boards, or he was here defending himself, it seems like the kind of thing that would have been shut down a long time ago. Am I being too sensitive?


If he weren't selling something, it would be different, IMHO.

However, he IS selling something through this work of his and, as potential consumers, we have a right to criticize (without getting nasty).

Think of it as if a new model came out and there were a lot of inaccuracies. I'd appreciate getting some sort of review pointing that stuff out--for informational purposes if nothing else.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

I like his dog...


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

John P said:


> I like his dog...


Why, John! That was a very_ nice _thing to say!

Here's your cookie!


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## robiwon (Oct 20, 2006)

I saw this at Wonderfest as well this year. I wasn't as put off as some were. I thought it was a dazzling display of lights cameras and action. There was a woman "interviewing" people for some web show, and ST theme music coming from the dispaly. Yeah it looked silly and I couldn't figure out what the point of it all was.

But, I'll tell you what bothered me. He showed up on this forum, and over on SSM "pretending" to be a new member who just happened to stumble on this new lighting manual. Telling us "hey look what I found, go check out it." That's what really bothered me.

As for the manual, there was a member on SSM who bought it and reviewed it. One example that was qouted from the video is how to make your own table saw by clamping a circular saw upside down to your work bench to cut the resin. Form your own opinions.

As for the model itself. It's a big model, he built it. He put a lot of lights in it. It may not be accurate to the filming miniature but that's what building models is all about. Build it your way. He did and that's more than I can say about a lot of people on the many different forums I belong to. There's always seems to be more talk than action.:wave:


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## JGG1701 (Nov 9, 2004)

robiwon said:


> Build it your way.


AGREED!!!:thumbsup:
-Jim


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## Jim NCC1701A (Nov 6, 2000)

Kit said:


> If he were somebody "known" on the boards, or he was here defending himself, it seems like the kind of thing that would have been shut down a long time ago.


He had been here a little while ago, trying to promote his 'enterprise'.
Got banned.
http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/member.php?u=61548


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## cireskul (Jul 16, 2006)

So and so can peddle his “wares” to whoever. It’s a free country (for now). That’s not my critique. 

What I find troubling is no one cares if WF contest judging is held to a standard. Hell, anything goes baby. I guess.


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## Jim NCC1701A (Nov 6, 2000)

I still think Neb was robbed - his X15 should've scored better than a silver. IMHO.


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## Dyonisis (Nov 11, 2009)

This stupid thing double posted my message - only because I was missing a quote bracket in the text! :beatdeadhorse:


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## Dyonisis (Nov 11, 2009)

Jim NCC1701A said:


> He had been here a little while ago, trying to promote his 'enterprise'.
> Got banned.
> http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/member.php?u=61548


 For some reason - I'm not surprised.....



robiwon said:


> It may not be accurate to the filming miniature but that's what building models is all about. Build it your way. He did and that's more than I can say about a lot of people on the many different forums I belong to.


 I'm sorry Robert,but I have to disagree in this case. This guy is touting his build as the ultimate interpretation of the Enterprise. That in itself is egoed out!  Especially since it's inaccurate on so many levels. He's selling himself,as well as his manual as "the ultimate model built by the ultimate modeler" when making this statement.
How many here,or on any of these modeling forums would actually agree with this statement? Do you agree with it too?


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## junglelord (Mar 6, 2007)

True enough, but any anal retentive individual would know that his work is not accurate....we are trekkies after all.
:thumbsup:

So I doubt anyone would fall for that, because the research is easy enough.

Besides the out of alignment niecelles are just WACKY.
:freak:


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## Steve244 (Jul 22, 2001)

I think the jupiter II needs some of these nacelle thingies. We gots the twirly lights already.


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## Jim NCC1701A (Nov 6, 2000)

junglelord said:


> Besides the out of alignment niecelles are just WACKY.
> :freak:


It's the variable-geometry variant..


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## cireskul (Jul 16, 2006)

"It's the variable-geometry variant.."

Yah,Yah.....thats the ticket.


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

Well, I certainly can't damn him for his originality!

I've never seen a refit rendered quite that way, before. While it is certainly not to my tastes, it is his own original work, and he is obviously quite proud of it. 

I would certainly have been more impressed if he had at least created an alignment jig for the engines to make certain that they are on straight, and a few other seemingly basic modeling practices. But, it is still his model, and he can do with it whatever he wishes.

I think that there are modelers on these boards who are unquestionably professional in their building technique, and should perhaps publish their own "ultimate modeling guide" to the PL and/or DeBoer refit kits.


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## Auroranut (Jan 12, 2008)

It needs a pearl flame job and Centerlines....

Chris.


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## Landru (May 25, 2009)

scotpens said:


> While I can appreciate your viewpoint, I might also point out that it must have taken a lot of effort to build this car. That doesn't mean I have to like it.


I understand what you are saying there. 
I should point out that some people do have some good criticisms for not liking it; I can understand and appreciate that. But what I was referring to was the very hurtful things that some have said about this build.

To be honest, I don't know if I like it, but I'm not about to put him down for it.

I was not saying that everyone should like this build, I was trying to say that I'm truly dismayed at some of the comments I've seen on these pages.


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## CaptFrank (Jan 29, 2005)

He does seem very proud of the finished product.
What if this is the only model he built that hadn't burst
into flames, crashed, and burned?
Maybe this is his only successful build.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

junglelord said:


> True enough, but any anal retentive individual would know that his work is not accurate....we are trekkies after all.
> :thumbsup:


:roll:

I think that's a good illustration of how our collective humor is self-deprecating to the point that if one of us were to post something akin to what he displayed at WF and made the same claims about it, everyone would be laughing because they would KNOW it is done with heavy sarcasm as a joke.

On the other hand, do we make enough effort to get along well with folks who may be like him--in earnest? 

Usually they are the ones that get banned since things frequently turn ugly on their parts when someone offers some criticism/help.

What are we supposed to do? One person may read the critique as helpful information but the sensitive recipient may feel as though his head had just been chopped off.

I've had people tell me what to do with my nacelles before even though I went to a lot of trouble to get them just right. After considering the critique, however, I realized how they were correct after all. And it wasn't due to a lack of self-esteem on my part. 

I dish it out and I think I can take it as I have in the past. 

With other modelers who may not be accustomed to the give and take, at what point can we offer face-saving chances to newbies and at what point do the moderators have to write them off (ban them) as a lost cause?

I wouldn't like to make that call and I think the mods usually, except in egregious cases, bend over backwards to forgive and forget the first offense. (I think one of the main reasons I've stayed on this board is that the mods have kept the boards overall a pleasant place to exchange information and pics and such.)


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## robiwon (Oct 20, 2006)

Dyonisis said:


> For some reason - I'm not surprised.....
> 
> I'm sorry Robert,but I have to disagree in this case. This guy is touting his build as the ultimate interpretation of the Enterprise. That in itself is egoed out!  Especially since it's inaccurate on so many levels. He's selling himself,as well as his manual as "the ultimate model built by the ultimate modeler" when making this statement.
> How many here,or on any of these modeling forums would actually agree with this statement? Do you agree with it too?


We all have our own viewpoints. I said before he built a model and lit it. He's proud of it. To him it's the ultimate. To me or you it isn't. He know's that and we know that. There is no crime in being proud of what you do or have accomplished. Others may not agree with you but to say he is wrong for being proud of what he has done certainly is casting the first stone. Maybe he should have just said "hey check out my crappy model that none of you will like". Maybe then all the master modelers who have built perfect models wouldn't jump all over him for building something below our standards.:thumbsup:


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## bccanfield (Nov 17, 2002)

Look, my liege!

(fanfare) 

Camelot! 
Camelot! 
Camelot! 
(It's only a model.) 
Shh!


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

Interesting thoughts. Nobody deserves personal attacks, and I think those were off-base. But as for criticism of the model? I've seen some ugly stuff on forums, and the posters were pretty kind if it appeared that the builder was rather innocent, young, or possibly not entirely aware, if you get my drift.

But "ultimate"? That in itself is a criticism of all other models that came before and will come after. So unless this fellow is "not entirely aware", he began the criticism cycle and it seems natural that it would not go unanswered.

.... without personal pot-shots, of course. But the model is fair game, in my opinion.


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## Dyonisis (Nov 11, 2009)

robiwon said:


> We all have our own viewpoints. I said before he built a model and lit it. He's proud of it. To him it's the ultimate. To me or you it isn't. He know's that and we know that. There is no crime in being proud of what you do or have accomplished. Others may not agree with you but to say he is wrong for being proud of what he has done certainly is casting the first stone. Maybe he should have just said "hey check out my crappy model that none of you will like". Maybe then all the master modelers who have built perfect models wouldn't jump all over him for building something below our standards.:thumbsup:


Sorry,Roberto! I wasn't picking on you in particular. He's proud,but to call it the ultimate model is very presumptuos,don't you think? I don't want to make hateful comments,but I've tried to be as decent,and low key as possible,but I wouldn't call any of my models the ultimate if they were this wrong. 

I'll never say that any model is the ultimate one,when there are so many "ultimate models" out there built by so many talented people. When the MPC X-wing came out I thought that was the ultimate model,even as my brother got one for his birthday,and he destroyed it after he built it! He knew that I wanted it,but he didn't and he got it anyway!


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## USS Atlantis (Feb 23, 2008)

Kit said:


> I feel a little uncomfortable with this thread. There's a lot of ragging on this guy going on here. It doesn't seem to me to be all that lighthearted. If he were somebody "known" on the boards, or he was here defending himself, it seems like the kind of thing that would have been shut down a long time ago. Am I being too sensitive?


Oh, he's known

Got himself banned from 4 forum sites I know of for "spamming"

Either posting his "for sale" thread in an inappropriate topic, or in the case of SSM, Duping that thread into 5 other topics - ergo, Spamming SSM with his ad

I don't know what your definition of "known" is, but he's well known amongst many forum regulars


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

SteveR said:


> But "ultimate"? That in itself is a criticism of all other models that came before and will come after. So unless this fellow is "not entirely aware", he began the criticism cycle and it seems natural that it would not go unanswered.


Very good point. The implication of "ultimate" is definitely untrue and definitely not one designed to win friends and customers. 

However, his ego/salesmanship is tied up with his personality so it is not _really_ possible to totally separate the two. But, yes, there are boundaries to be respected, IMHO.

If he had simply submitted his model for critique, he could have taken the slings and arrows and then more properly offered his manual up for those who might be interested in the electronics aspect of it.

Critique of the model seems fair. Critique of his behavior also seems fair--especially in regards to self-promoting a product. Speaking in general terms about motives in such situations--not specifically attributed to, nor accusing him--also seems fair.

And, at some point, just dropping him as a subject is the fair thing to do.


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

PerfesserCoffee said:


> And, at some point, just dropping him as a subject is the fair thing to do.


Yeah, it is getting kinda stale ...


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## JGG1701 (Nov 9, 2004)

Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwn!


:beatdeadhorse:


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Well, I'd close it if I could. 

I'd honestly like to see him on this bbs turning out some less than "ultimate" models for us to more fully appreciate (or not) his work.


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## robiwon (Oct 20, 2006)

JGG1701 said:


> Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwn!
> 
> 
> :beatdeadhorse:


Agreed. Nothing new has come out of this thread. It has more than lived long enough. That horse must be pretty tired by now.:wave:


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## Griffworks (Jun 24, 2002)

The horse, tired...? Nah, the dude beatin' the crap outta it is likely tired. 

Regardless, I agree w/the majority of folks who've posted the last couple days and this thread has gotten to the point where it's not doing The Hobby any real good. Like the ship or not - I'm firmly in the latter - or the guys "buy what I'm selling!" attitude, its pretty much been discussed to death. Time to bury this corpse and move on to greener pastures. 

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