# Finally! A way to make a rotating core cheaply!



## Scorpitat (Oct 7, 2004)

EUREKA!

I was looking on evilbay, and found a light kit that I can make into a simple rotating core for my Jupiter 2 and my pod. It comes with pre-wired LEDs, and a circuitboard ready to go. Even has programmed patterns! With 8 white LEDs, I can simply place them thru a "disc" above my core, pick the pattern, and viola'........rotating core. All for a mere 20 dollars. Grab em up guys, and someone can copy and mass produce them for us cheaply.

I already ordered and paid for mine. If you follow the link below, you'll see how it works. It even has videos of the patterns you can use. ( I plan on using #4, since it will simulate a rotating core nicely. I KNEW if I looked around, I could find something to make a core cheaply! I hope everyone gets one, and someone makes copies to sell to us all........reasonably priced! This thing can even be set up for an external power source! I LOVE it!

Enjoy, everyone!


http://cgi.ebay.com/Led-Chaser-Whit...VQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247


Sincerely,
Scorp.

"Boldly GO!" :woohoo: :woohoo: :wave:


----------



## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

I saw that... theres no way thats fitting in the pod's core though. Since there is no room really beneath the floor of the pod, any lighting has to be in the core itself and any wires running to the sides of the interior, as the interior itslef is visible. It might work for the Jupieter 2 though. The pod core is also 1/4 the size of the J2 core.


----------



## Scorpitat (Oct 7, 2004)

Well, the pod might be "doable", since the LEDs are able to be separated out from the wiring harness. The wiring could be run out to a "crate", on the ground, like the Robinsons used, and it could be set up, like a diorama style setting. 

Possibilities are endless, and I know that we have creative modelers here. 

After all, we live for challenges. And at 20 bucks, the kit seems like a deal.

Best of luck to everyone!

Sincerely,
Scorp.


----------



## otto (Jan 1, 1970)

I got one, not sure what I'll use it on. But should be fun. I'm hopeing one of the modes will be a steady On position for all lights. We'll wait and see...If so I'll use it on the seaview. Thanks for the heads up Scorp!


----------



## Paulbo (Sep 16, 2004)

Otto - I just watched all the videos and Mode 14 is steady on for all lights.

As far as fitting it within the pod, I believe that the hollow area of the front control console fits over a portion of the core. It should be a simple matter to mount the lights on a panel in the core, then run the ribbon cable into that hollow area to mate with the circuit board.

Getting power to it, though ...


----------



## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

I think you've got something useful there, Scorpitat! Thanks for sharing your discovery. :thumbsup:


----------



## Paulbo (Sep 16, 2004)

toyroy said:


> I think you've got something useful there, Scorpitat! Thanks for sharing your discovery. :thumbsup:


D'oh! I forgot to mention that part - very cool discovery! Thanks for the heads up

EDIT: Just ordered one. Some of the more random looking sequences would work pretty well for blinky lights in the Seaview interior. Hmmm.


----------



## otto (Jan 1, 1970)

Paulbo said:


> Otto - I just watched all the videos and Mode 14 is steady on for all lights.
> 
> As far as fitting it within the pod, I believe that the hollow area of the front control console fits over a portion of the core. It should be a simple matter to mount the lights on a panel in the core, then run the ribbon cable into that hollow area to mate with the circuit board.
> 
> Getting power to it, though ...


Ahh Great news, Thanks Paulbo!


----------



## Opus Penguin (Apr 19, 2004)

I plan on getting one. Not for the Space Pod but I always wanted to beef up an old Playmates Tricorder from TNG that I have.


----------



## fxshop (May 19, 2004)

Scorpitat said:


> EUREKA!
> 
> I was looking on evilbay, and found a light kit that I can make into a simple rotating core for my Jupiter 2 and my pod. It comes with pre-wired LEDs, and a circuitboard ready to go. Even has programmed patterns! With 8 white LEDs, I can simply place them thru a "disc" above my core, pick the pattern, and viola'........rotating core. All for a mere 20 dollars. Grab em up guys, and someone can copy and mass produce them for us cheaply.
> 
> ...


I would like to see it in the model kit working first, the 5 mm leds are quite big for the size of the core too, $20.00 on Ebay I would becarefull what you buy when its not designed for the model kit.
Thanks 
Randy Neubert
VoodooFX
650-568-3400


----------



## gareee (Jan 1, 1970)

Actually I got something very inexpensive that worked well for the polar jupiter II kit. The led light set was for floral arrangements, and the cost (including the included button batteries in their switch) was $12 shipped for 2.. granted, this was a few years ago, but last year I picked up a bunch of small led halloween decorations for a buck a pop.. and they had small circuit board controlled leds as well, that were just hot melt glued in.. a tug or two, and I had flashing led units... and even better, after halloween they were clearanced for 25 cents each!

We took two with altenating red/blue leds, and put them into two incense burners we scored (also at clearance at Spencer Gifts last year, and with the exception of the uber cheap batteries they initially had in them, they've worked out fantastically!

There might even be some floral arrangement leg light sets that might work as well.. the button battery control in the old one I have for the J2 was very flat.. just barely thicker then the button batteries it holds, and the wire were also quite thin, also very nice for small model builds like this.

The lights go off in sequence repeating, and if you arrange them properly, you get the circular lighting effect for the engines.

Kinda hard to beat something like that for only $6.


----------



## Scorpitat (Oct 7, 2004)

Agreed Gareee.

A little ingenuity can go a long way towards making a cheaper solution work well. That's how most inventions and ideas come to fruition....with a little guesswork, and trial & error.

We'll see how well it goes when it arrives next week. I hope everyone that got one has luck with them, since the sold out RAPIDLY. I also hope someone can reproduce them for us to buy on here just as cheaply.

Best of luck to all...let us know how you all make out!

Sincerely,
Scorp.

"Boldly GO!" :woohoo: :wave:


----------



## starseeker2 (Jun 13, 2008)

You can also get these as chaser circuit kits from various electronics kits suppliers for even less. Another use for these (dare I mention this on an Irwin Allen forum?) is for the rotating lights on the front of the 1701s engine nacelles, replacing the white leds with colored, of course.


----------



## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

I used to get mine from Video Stores and ABC Liquer displays around Christmas time- A circuit board the size of a postage stamp and a buch of prewireed LEDs for nothing if you ask nice enough. They usually are set for 'Twinkle' but make great prop (Tricorder) lights.
Thanks for the link to the above chaser circuit- I saved the guy's store for later but they look like they could work for a number of projects.


----------



## Paulbo (Sep 16, 2004)

Just got mine in today. Works pretty good, though the three speeds on the chaser are IMHO 1) too slow, 2) still too slow, and 3) wicked fast!

Fiddled with it for a while and found that using the switch for on/off is kind of a pain - easier to just unplug and plug it back in again. (Even better to add a switch to the power cord.)


----------



## otto (Jan 1, 1970)

Paulbo said:


> Just got mine in today. Works pretty good, though the three speeds on the chaser are IMHO 1) too slow, 2) still too slow, and 3) wicked fast!
> 
> Fiddled with it for a while and found that using the switch for on/off is kind of a pain - easier to just unplug and plug it back in again. (Even better to add a switch to the power cord.)


 Ditto! LOL...


----------



## starseeker2 (Jun 13, 2008)

Does anyone know what happened to the guy who was making these amazing LED chasers? I'm getting ready to start feeding fiber optics to all the little lights the control panels of my Chariots and his unit would be perfect for the other end. But he's vanished from EBay and I don't have his email address.


----------



## DR. PRETORIOUS (Nov 1, 2000)

http://www.onlineauction.com/index....ndBid=&sellerName=donniedjdonniedj&bidderName=


----------



## starseeker2 (Jun 13, 2008)

Thank you Thank you Thank you!!!


----------



## Scorpitat (Oct 7, 2004)

Just an update. 

I DID manage to fit the kit into the pod, with a bit of plastic removal under the floor, and it DOES all fit. I put the circuitboard on the floor, under the front dashboard, and routed the cables along the wallframes and under the floor.

I drilled equally distant holes in the floor, above where the pod core casing is, ans simply anchored them down with small, plastic zipties, to hold them in place. Then, I frosted the clear lens for the pod core, and viola!, instant rotating pod core. I ran the battery connections out the back of the pod, near the bottom, and I'll simply hide the wire amongst a plant near the pod, once the diorama is complete. 

If you look back thru links I posted on, I did put a video on here once, showing the lights in action on photobucket.com. It should still be there. Hope this helps anyone who wants to make rotating pod core lights cheaply.

Sincerely,
Scorp.

"Boldly GO!" :wave: :woohoo:


----------



## starseeker2 (Jun 13, 2008)

Scorpitat: Thanks you too for starting all this. By the time I counted up how many I needed (pattern 4 looks perfect for core lights as well as the rotating lights in the nacelles of the 1701 and pattern 9 would be great hooked up to fiber optics from the old fiber lamps I collected just for such a purpose for the Chariot dashboard as well as a replacement for my 1980s Christmas tree lights for my 24" Jupiter 2 control panels), they were all sold out and he was gone from EBay. This time I managed to snag 5 flats w/o leds to start with. I get my leds in 100 packs super cheap from EBay. Bonus: he now offers provision (or wires it in on some of his boards) for an external switch and external power supply. So this is great.


----------



## Scorpitat (Oct 7, 2004)

:thumbsup:


----------



## hal9001 (May 28, 2008)

Scorpitat said:


> :thumbsup:



Hey Scorpitat, you don't happen to still have the sellers name do you? The listing has been removed. When is the last time you bought from him because I noticed the original post was a few years ago. Would love to get one.

Thanks-


----------



## teslabe (Oct 20, 2007)

hal9001 said:


> Hey Scorpitat, you don't happen to still have the sellers name do you? The listing has been removed. When is the last time you bought from him because I noticed the original post was a few years ago. Would love to get one.
> 
> Thanks-


Hi hal,
this link is still working, it's the same as the one DR.PRETORIOUS posted yesterday.:wave: I have a few boards from him, they are nice and the price can't be beat. It saves me alot of work.......:woohoo:

http://www.onlineauction.com/index....ndBid=&sellerName=donniedjdonniedj&bidderName


----------



## Modeler1964 (Aug 13, 2006)

Thanks for this post! I can handle 20 bucks a lot better than 100!


----------



## starseeker2 (Jun 13, 2008)

I have to admit, that's a pretty wonky auction site. And over the last few days his stock has sold out and been partly replenished. Best to e mail him directly about the various styles of board that are available. There are at least four. He accepts PayPal.
The boards now feature 9 speeds, not just the three mentioned above. They also feature variable brightness. Some come without LEDs so if you want to use 3 mm or even surface mount or colors, or wire them a couple feet away, you could. And some come with a provision for attaching a power supply and an on off switch separate from the board. I think he took all the suggestions from all of us from the other thread who contacted him and incorporated them into his designs. These boards are our wish list made real. And the lots of 5 ($11 each w/o LEDs, which are dirt cheap bulk on EBay) are an even better deal.


----------



## teslabe (Oct 20, 2007)

starseeker2 said:


> I have to admit, that's a pretty wonky auction site. And over the last few days his stock has sold out and been partly replenished. Best to e mail him directly about the various styles of board that are available. There are at least four. He accepts PayPal.
> The boards now feature 9 speeds, not just the three mentioned above. They also feature variable brightness. Some come without LEDs so if you want to use 3 mm or even surface mount or colors, or wire them a couple feet away, you could. And some come with a provision for attaching a power supply and an on off switch separate from the board. I think he took all the suggestions from all of us from the other thread who contacted him and incorporated them into his designs. These boards are our wish list made real. And the lots of 5 ($11 each w/o LEDs, which are dirt cheap bulk on EBay) are an even better deal.


Hi All, you need to know that the outputs can only handle 25ma each, that's one LED. if you plan to drive more then one LED you will need to add a transistor or solid state relay to each output to handle the extra load. At least the boards I have he is only using the "B" ports and not "A&B" ports combined, that would have given us 200ma per.:wave:


----------



## starseeker2 (Jun 13, 2008)

I asked the maker about this. He just replied:
"True, each output max is 25mA, but the entire board does not draw no more the 70ma with all LEDs on and 20ma most of the time because its pulse width modulated and the leds are fading are at some level other that max brightness. You only actually need 5mA to make these modern LEDs very bright, the 20,000mcd and up type. Relays will not work, they are slow. Transitors will work." 
Has anyone tried this with these boards? I'll give it a go when I get mine as I'd love one of these to replace the incandescents in my Jupiter 2.


----------



## teslabe (Oct 20, 2007)

starseeker2 said:


> I asked the maker about this. He just replied:
> "True, each output max is 25mA, but the entire board does not draw no more the 70ma with all LEDs on and 20ma most of the time because its pulse width modulated and the leds are fading are at some level other that max brightness. You only actually need 5mA to make these modern LEDs very bright, the 20,000mcd and up type. Relays will not work, they are slow. Transitors will work."
> Has anyone tried this with these boards? I'll give it a go when I get mine as I'd love one of these to replace the incandescents in my Jupiter 2.


I don't care about the total draw of this board...:freak: It's what each output can handle...:drunk: It is 25ma and anything more will blow-out that port....
He is wrong about S/S releys, I use them all the time. the speed of this is not so fast that the ones i use would have a problem..... His boards are
great just know that if you are going to drive more then one LED on a port you will blow that port.....:drunk:

P.S. I'm not telling you not to buy his boards, I think they are a great circuits.
I just what to be sure you don't blow out the card as soon as you wire it up.I am here to help if you need it.:wave:


----------



## starseeker2 (Jun 13, 2008)

Edit:


teslabe said:


> I am here to help if you need it.


And we do appreciate it! I'm a total newbie when it comes to anything much beyond leds and stone tools. 
I'm going to try the transistor route. He also said: "If these are White Leds, then go with then Iv 50,000. 10,000 is very dull and looks blueish for White Leds.
You can use the most basic and abundant transistor, 2n3904 or 2n2222a."
so I'll give that a try when I get the boards and post the success or lack of. Edit: I just got 100 of the 2n3904 for $6 on EBay.


----------



## teslabe (Oct 20, 2007)

starseeker2 said:


> Edit:
> And we do appreciate it! I'm a total newbie when it comes to anything much beyond leds and stone tools.
> I'm going to try the transistor route. He also said: "If these are White Leds, then go with then Iv 50,000. 10,000 is very dull and looks blueish for White Leds.
> You can use the most basic and abundant transistor, 2n3904 or 2n2222a."
> so I'll give that a try when I get the boards and post the success or lack of. Edit: I just got 100 of the 2n3904 for $6 on EBay.


I just ordered 3 of his small boards, without LEDs, and will be using 2n2222a, SOT-23
style transistors.:thumbsup: I will post pictures of my mods to this board when I'm done. I will be using it in my space pod in a,3x8LEDs=24,so I
have an LED for each window of the core. It should all fit in the core assy.:woohoo:

P.S. I'm not ragging on Donnie's boards and I hope he understands that, I'm just letting anyone who uses it, know, that they will need to modify it if they plan to drive more then one LED on each output. I'd hate to think of the shock on someones face when they hook up their lighting only to have a very fast flash,one time,as they blowout their $11.00 to $19.00 board.:drunk: I've used his boards and they are great, plus you can't beat the price. I'm just giving everyone a headsup.:wave:


----------



## teslabe (Oct 20, 2007)

This is the solid state relay I was talking about using for high current lighting.
So as not to put my foot in it, I will take a look with an O-Scope at the switching speeds of this board and make sure it is fast enough. It
would be the dimming cycle that would be a problem, if there was one. These relays can handle a 5ms cycle just fine, I will see if these boards switch faster than that. I don't use the dimming routine in my lighting so it's not a problem for me.:thumbsup:


----------



## teslabe (Oct 20, 2007)

Hi All, 
Here is my modified board, take a look at my post at the top of this page for a picture of the unmodified board. I used 2N2222A transistors and that will give me about 500ma per port. It fits fine in the core so I will only have two very small wires to deal with.:thumbsup: Traces need to be cut on 16 pads and the transistors "just fit".:freak: A ground wire needs to be added to eight pads, I did it on the backside of my board, this is for the Emitter. If anyone would like some high res pictures of my mods just send a PM.

P.S. You need to be a good solder for this and use extra flux......:wave:


----------



## starmanmm (Mar 19, 2000)

This is an interesting find.

Never heard of that auction site... easy to use?


----------



## teslabe (Oct 20, 2007)

starmanmm said:


> This is an interesting find.
> 
> Never heard of that auction site... easy to use?


No it's not.....:freak: I hate it.


----------



## starseeker2 (Jun 13, 2008)

Yes, that site is bizarre, counter- intuitive, and frustrating. You may want to email Donnie James directly at:
[email protected]
But do check the site to see what kinds of chasers he has. When he's out of stock, tho(and he seems to be sold out a lot), they're no longer listed, which isn't a big help. I'm sure he'd rather hear from customers directly rather than lose them. He accepts PayPal.


----------



## teslabe (Oct 20, 2007)

starseeker2 said:


> Yes, that site is bizarre, counter- intuitive, and frustrating. You may want to email Donnie James directly at:
> [email protected]
> But do check the site to see what kinds of chasers he has. When he's out of stock, tho(and he seems to be sold out a lot), they're no longer listed, which isn't a big help. I'm sure he'd rather hear from customers directly rather than lose them. He accepts PayPal.


I just talked with him about the problem with paying for the order I had just
placed (4 more of his very nice little chaser boards). He knows it's a pain but
I think he saves with OnlineAuctions, unlike at EBay, I can't blame him for that. Now with this being my second purchase from him at this site, I now know how it works. As I had stated a few posts earlier, I love the
boards.:thumbsup: It saves me so much time and work using them and only takes me about half an hour to modiy them to handle higher current (500ma)
per port.:woohoo:


----------



## starseeker2 (Jun 13, 2008)

testlabe: I somehow magaged to miss your previous post with your modified boards. My boards still haven't arrived so I'm blown away by how small they are. Nice work! Looking forward to seeing you get your core lit. What fun.


----------



## teslabe (Oct 20, 2007)

starseeker2 said:


> testlabe: I somehow magaged to miss your previous post with your modified boards. My boards still haven't arrived so I'm blown away by how small they are. Nice work! Looking forward to seeing you get your core lit. What fun.


Hi Starseeker,
Thank you very much for the nice words....:wave: Yes, they are nice and small boards, just the way I like it.... As I said earlier, each port can handle just one LED (25ma max load per port) so be sure to add a transistor if you are going to put more then one LED on a port.


----------



## teslabe (Oct 20, 2007)

Wow, ordered 4 more boards on Thursday and got them today.:woohoo:
Although he did raise the price $2.00 per board from the $11.00 I had paid
on Jan.30, it's still a good price and a nice board.


----------



## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

Are these boards strictly for the space pod core, or will they work on a Jupiter 2 or Gemini 12?


----------



## starseeker2 (Jun 13, 2008)

Got my boards today, which is Fast for intntn'l shipping. Must finish Seaview... Must... But I'm sure tempted to start messing with them now. I'm going to be using 8 leds and lots of fibre optic in pattern 9 for the Chariot control panels. Another 2 (modified to 16 leds each) are going to be rectro-fitted as two sets of 1701 nacelle lights. And 2 more (modified into 24 lights each) are going to be rectro-fitted into Jupiter 2s. The next 5... well, they're all spoken for too, if I do these right.
If anyone's interested, I got the long skinny board, part # 8LED 1C. It's dimensions are .61" x 2.36" x .28" thick. They are small!!


----------



## teslabe (Oct 20, 2007)

toyroy said:


> Are these boards strictly for the space pod core, or will they work on a Jupiter 2 or Gemini 12?


They will work in the J-2 and Gemini 12, you will need 32 leds, not the 24 that the space pod will use, so that will be 4x8 ports. I was looking for something small enough to fit completely in the space pod's core. If you use these boards you will need the modify them by adding transistors to each output to handle the extra load of multiple leds unless you can live with just 8 leds.:wave:


----------



## starseeker2 (Jun 13, 2008)

32? You're right! Boy, it's been a long time since I thought about those lights. 
Wow, added bonus to his boards: they run with a power supply anywhere from 3 to 12 volts. I thought I'd have to do something clever to make them run at the 6V that my J2s run but they'll work as they are. 
I've never been a fan of canned soup, but if I were, these still would be the best thing since. Or including.


----------



## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

teslabe said:


> They will work in the J-2 and Gemini 12, you will need 32 leds, not the 24 that the space pod will use...


Thanks much, for the info! Although I understand the chip _will_ work on a Gemini 12 using the appropriate number of transistors and LED's, I'd just point out that the G12 has more than 32 "windows" in its core.


----------



## teslabe (Oct 20, 2007)

toyroy said:


> Thanks much, for the info! Although I understand the chip _will_ work on a Gemini 12 using the appropriate number of transistors and LED's, I'd just point out that the G12 has more than 32 "windows" in its core.


Hi toyroy, you got me there. Not a big fan of the Gemini 12 and never looked at one up close, so I did put my foot in it ,sorry for the bad info. I should have pointed out that it's the J-2 with 32 windows.


----------



## teslabe (Oct 20, 2007)

starseeker2 said:


> 32? You're right! Boy, it's been a long time since I thought about those lights.
> Wow, added bonus to his boards: they run with a power supply anywhere from 3 to 12 volts. I thought I'd have to do something clever to make them run at the 6V that my J2s run but they'll work as they are.
> I've never been a fan of canned soup, but if I were, these still would be the best thing since. Or including.


Hi starseeker2, that's the nice thing about that board, it has an onboard voltage regulator.:thumbsup:


----------



## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

teslabe said:


> Hi toyroy, you got me there. Not a big fan of the Gemini 12 and never looked at one up close, so I did put my foot in it ,sorry for the bad info. I should have pointed out that it's the J-2 with 32 windows.


Actually, I had forgotten whether this particular board would work on a J2(or G12.) It wasn't a joke, or "trick" question. Just so happens someone here is building a G12 right now. Thanks again. :thumbsup:


----------



## starseeker2 (Jun 13, 2008)

Not only has the # of lights on the J2 and G12 gotten pretty fuzzy with time, so has the chaser pattern. It seems to me that on the full sized versions of the J2 and Pod, the individual lights (between each fin) flashed separately in a continuous chase pattern and that the whole circle was divided into 4 units (4 times pattern 4 on these circuit boards). But on at least some of the miniatures (and I'm thinking about the G12 launch I guess), didn't the lights chase each other so that it seemed two were on side by side, like 1 + 2, then 2 +3, then 3 +4, etc. Pattern #33 on these boards matches the effect I'm thinking of. ??


----------



## Rick N (Dec 30, 2008)

Scorpitat said:


> EUREKA!
> 
> I was looking on evilbay, and found a light kit that I can make into a simple rotating core for my Jupiter 2 and my pod. It comes with pre-wired LEDs, and a circuitboard ready to go. Even has programmed patterns! With 8 white LEDs, I can simply place them thru a "disc" above my core, pick the pattern, and viola'........rotating core. All for a mere 20 dollars. Grab em up guys, and someone can copy and mass produce them for us cheaply.
> 
> ...


Hi Scope and everyone! I work for a very well known Hi Tech company in the Boston area and I have a little information that may upset a few of us. Circuitboards are a regular part of the daily assembly at my place of employment. Though I do not do the soldering of the boards, I do install them into the many robotic and laser systems I build. A typical round circuitboard that is aprox. 3 inches in dia.costs the company 50 cents! The many componants that get soldered to it costs the company just a few dollars! I also know what the assemblers doing the soldering are making per hour. Because of that, It has always upset me when I see the price of ordering lighting for modeling. Please do not get me wrong. Most sources for our model lighting are good companies that offer a quality product....but the cost! Another thing!...circuitboards get zapped by static electricity EVERYTIME you pick up the board or model unless you are grounded by an ESD strap! What does that mean? It means that in time, the circuitboard will no longer work. It`s something to think about folks. Rick N :wave:


----------



## teslabe (Oct 20, 2007)

Rick N said:


> Hi Scope and everyone! I work for a very well known Hi Tech company in the Boston area and I have a little information that may upset a few of us. Circuitboards are a regular part of the daily assembly at my place of employment. Though I do not do the soldering of the boards, I do install them into the many robotic and laser systems I build. A typical round circuitboard that is aprox. 3 inches in dia.costs the company 50 cents! The many componants that get soldered to it costs the company just a few dollars! I also know what the assemblers doing the soldering are making per hour. Because of that, It has always upset me when I see the price of ordering lighting for modeling. Please do not get me wrong. Most sources for our model lighting are good companies that offer a quality product....but the cost! Another thing!...circuitboards get zapped by static electricity EVERYTIME you pick up the board or model unless you are grounded by an ESD strap! What does that mean? It means that in time, the circuitboard will no longer work. It`s something to think about folks. Rick N :wave:


Hi Rick, ESD is the death of any electronic circuit and I thank you for making 
that point.....:thumbsup: A latent failure is so insidious that you just might not see it til you seal up your build, OMG now you have to fix it....:freak:For me to make a circuit from scratch is the way I like to do it but these boards 
do make my life so much easier and you can't beat the price. I do a week long burn-in on all the boards I buy before I use them. so far, no problem.


----------



## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

starseeker2 said:


> ...on at least some of the miniatures (and I'm thinking about the G12 launch I guess), didn't the lights chase each other so that it seemed two were on side by side, like 1 + 2, then 2 +3, then 3 +4, etc. Pattern #33 on these boards matches the effect I'm thinking of.


Can't say about the G12 hero. But Y3a established that, during the first season, the J2 hero core used a mechanical spinner with *six* lights. Each bulb would light up about three panes at a time.

Perhaps this early J2 core light spinner was taken from the G12 hero?


----------



## jwrjr (Oct 31, 2003)

Rick's comment about cost is certainly true, but I would dare to suggest that he has missed something. That being "quantity". The cost of circuit boards drops drastically when you order in 'industrial' quantities. The model lighting suppliers dare not order more than 50 or 100 at a time for fear of having to eat the ones that don't sell.


----------



## fxshop (May 19, 2004)

Rick N said:


> Hi Scope and everyone! I work for a very well known Hi Tech company in the Boston area and I have a little information that may upset a few of us. Circuitboards are a regular part of the daily assembly at my place of employment. Though I do not do the soldering of the boards, I do install them into the many robotic and laser systems I build. A typical round circuitboard that is aprox. 3 inches in dia.costs the company 50 cents! The many componants that get soldered to it costs the company just a few dollars! I also know what the assemblers doing the soldering are making per hour. Because of that, It has always upset me when I see the price of ordering lighting for modeling. Please do not get me wrong. Most sources for our model lighting are good companies that offer a quality product....but the cost! Another thing!...circuitboards get zapped by static electricity EVERYTIME you pick up the board or model unless you are grounded by an ESD strap! What does that mean? It means that in time, the circuitboard will no longer work. It`s something to think about folks. Rick N :wave:


 Hello Rick, If you want some background about model lighting companys please call me.

Thanks
Randy Neubert
VoodooFX
650-568-3400


----------



## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

Rick N said:


> ...circuitboards get zapped by static electricity EVERYTIME you pick up the board or model unless you are grounded by an ESD strap! What does that mean? It means that in time, the circuitboard will no longer work. It`s something to think about folks.


Good point. Perhaps, the circuit can be properly insulated. Also, the model itself might be grounded.


----------



## Rick N (Dec 30, 2008)

jwrjr said:


> Rick's comment about cost is certainly true, but I would dare to suggest that he has missed something. That being "quantity". The cost of circuit boards drops drastically when you order in 'industrial' quantities. The model lighting suppliers dare not order more than 50 or 100 at a time for fear of having to eat the ones that don't sell.


Hi jwrjr, Lol, i knew someone would be questioning about quantity. I do not know what a typical order of circuitboards would be for other Hi Tech companies..i guess that would depend on what is being produced. At my place of employment, we only assemble less than 100 of these laser systems per year, so we only order what we need for assembly...less than 100 of the 3 inch round PC boards per year. As for what model lighting suppliers have to order, I do understand that if they have to order smaller amounts, that would effect price. I do know how it all works. I used to own my own retail business years ago. Rick N. :wave:


----------



## Rick N (Dec 30, 2008)

fxshop said:


> Hello Rick, If you want some background about model lighting companys please call me.
> 
> Thanks
> Randy Neubert
> ...


Hi Randy, You can bet that I will be giving you a call when I get the chance. I also need to ask you about your Jupiter 2 lighting. Rick N :wave:


----------



## jwrjr (Oct 31, 2003)

Perhaps your board supplier gives better prices for modest quantities than mine does. That wouldn't be a major surprise. So if I came off as condescending, then "my bad".


----------



## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

Rick N said:


> ...It has always upset me when I see the price of ordering lighting for modeling. Please do not get me wrong. Most sources for our model lighting are good companies that offer a quality product...but the cost!...


Hear, hear! I'd like to thank everyone here at HobbyTalk who has shared about less expensive alternatives. This opens up the hobby to more people, and stimulates learning new stuff. :thumbsup: 

There's also nothing wrong with legitimate businesses providing turnkey solutions for those with more money, and less time. :thumbsup:


----------



## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

a servo motor/gearbox and mechanical lights in sockets (so you can replace them) will last decades longer than your circuit. The binary nature of the LED circuits don't easily lend themselves to ACCURATE fusion core lighting. While LED's are quick and easy...the effect is less than accurate. 


Take the challenge to construct a small mechanical system.


----------



## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

Y3a said:


> ...a servo motor/gearbox and mechanical lights in sockets (so you can replace them) will last decades longer than your circuit. The binary nature of the LED circuits don't easily lend themselves to ACCURATE fusion core lighting...


I also like the mechanical option, but using LED's instead of incandescent bulbs. They last much longer, use much less power, and give the same performance. LED sockets are available, too. With the proper design, the power can be routed through the two spinner bearings, so no additional sliding contacts are required.


----------



## starseeker2 (Jun 13, 2008)

Y3a said:


> a servo motor/gearbox and mechanical lights in sockets (so you can replace them) will last decades longer than your circuit. The binary nature of the LED circuits don't easily lend themselves to ACCURATE fusion core lighting. While LED's are quick and easy...the effect is less than accurate.
> 
> 
> Take the challenge to construct a small mechanical system.


Your point about the impermanence and fragility of circuit boards is a good one. [Mr T voice:] I pity the fool who seals his electronics inside with no way of getting to them for repair. [Normal voice - sort of like Pee Wee Herman:] Yet I've got a couple ancient circuit boards that date to when the PL J2 came out and neither they nor my home built stuff has failed so far. A good decade. Tho limited use, I must admit. 

But then the alternative: you get into motors, slip rings for the + and - connections, which have to be spring loaded, bearings, and a whole lot of other pesky hassles. Including the need to replace lightbulbs.
With leds, you don't need to replace the bulbs nearly as often, the whole electrical can be a fraction of the size of the mechanical, and it's also silent. 
And going to a spinning mechanical, you'd only be accurate to the smaller J2. The original 4' core did have separate bulbs:


----------



## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

starseeker2 said:


> ...you get into...slip rings for the + and - connections, which have to be spring loaded...


Not if you use the bearings themselves as the contacts.


starseeker2 said:


> ...it's also silent...


True, but if you have a good sound system for your model, that noise will hardly be noticed.


starseeker2 said:


> ...And going to a spinning mechanical, you'd only be accurate to the smaller J2. The original 4' core did have separate bulbs...


NOT in the first season. The original hero core and dome light spinner was mechanical. The core in your photo is the replacement, which debuted in the second season.


----------



## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

Starseeker.... You are showing pictures OF THE POD DROPPERS fusion core. The 4 footers ORIGINAL core was in fact 6 spinning lightbulbs (auto back-up lights). As you watch the SPFX clips, the first year and part of year 2, you can clearly see 6 or less lit bulbs in the core as they burned out. Toward the end of year 2 they dropped the 4 footer on it's core, which shattered. They decided to use the chaser, which was designed for higher film speeds used on the pod dropping clips. The miniature sets were lit differently after that as they went from an average of 96-116 frames/sec to 180 fps. The original mechanical core and bubble spinner were run from a central shaft so the core lights always spun at the same rate as the bubble. The angle of the spinning "V" in the bubble reflecting the 6 interior bulbs made the bubble appear to spin opposite to the core.


----------



## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

Great! Thanks! I was sure I wasn't hallucinating. So whatever pattern it was (#33?) that chases and lights up adjacent lights as it goes is accurate for the early J2 miniatures. All I can remember seeing of the single light chasing version was the full scale mockup. I seem to remember in the 2nd season when they lift off that explosions or something knocked out the light unit on the miniature and a couple groups of lights just stayed frozen. The pod dropper (or any of the 3d season, or all but a couple episodes of the 2nd season) I haven't seen in decades. 
So again, it seems to be builders choice as to what they want to be accurate to. Irwin Allen always left us lots of options. 
Boards burning out is a non-issue for me. Just make sure you have a way of accessing the board and for a couple bucks, replace it. Same thing with any mechanical. Sooner or later, things break. I try to plan for a safe place left for the boards, mechanicals, etc where I can cut into the model without destroying wires, etc. I just rewired all the leds (6 of them, plus 2 for the deck hatches) in my Seaview sail last night (I keep adding things to the model) without having to disturb any plastic. Like playing inside a watch, tho. 
Anyway, yes, good to know. Going with at least one multiple light chase pattern when I do get going.


----------



## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

Single lit bulb in the Fusion Core??? Like this??


----------



## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

That looks like it! Boy, it really died.


----------



## teslabe (Oct 20, 2007)

starseeker said:


> That looks like it! Boy, it really died.


Your right there.... If you blowup the shot, it looks like the core is separating from the back of the ship, ouch.....:drunk:


----------



## Gemini1999 (Sep 25, 2008)

teslabe said:


> Your right there.... If you blowup the shot, it looks like the core is separating from the back of the ship, ouch.....:drunk:


Yes, I remember that clip from the 1st episode of season 2. The model took quite a pounding with all those flame burst and flying debris.

Bryan


----------



## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

Not only was the core hanging by a thread, and only one light burning- but that single light was dead still. Not spinning at all. Gets me wondering if the damage which lead to the chaser replacement happened during this shoot.


----------



## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

No. The core was hanging by 1 of it's 2 support screws, and the rotating shaft had separated from the light holder part of the core, so it just stayed motionless. The Dropping of the hero didn't happen for another few months. The single light 'issue' was from Blast off into Outer Space, the 1st color episode- Year 2. I think Smith had given the thruster control to the space demolition team or whatever and after takeoff, they couldn't control the rolling and yaw. Smith was told by maureen to go up to the flight deck and tell Don & John what he had done. Don was seen to twist some wires together, and then you see the rest of the clip as the Jupiter 2 slowly regains control....


----------



## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

Y3a said:


> ...The core was hanging by 1 of it's 2 support screws, and the rotating shaft had separated from the light holder part of the core, so it just stayed motionless. The Dropping of the hero didn't happen for another few months...


Wow. That's remarkably specific information. Thank you.


----------



## Anothercoilgun (Aug 13, 2008)

Y3a said:


> The binary nature of the LED circuits don't easily lend themselves to ACCURATE fusion core lighting...


Please explain why? I resistor in line with a lamp dimms a bulp just as does one inline with an LED. Do you mean binary as in no physical rotation or electrically on and off nature. There is OFF and there is also an infinite number of ON levels because LEDs are analog components.


----------



## jwrjr (Oct 31, 2003)

Not only that, but you can get a very good fusion core simulation using pulse width modulation.


----------



## teslabe (Oct 20, 2007)

Y3a said:


> a servo motor/gearbox and mechanical lights in sockets (so you can replace them) will last decades longer than your circuit. The binary nature of the LED circuits don't easily lend themselves to ACCURATE fusion core lighting.


With "pulse width modulation", (PWM) you can make LEDs look just like incandescent lamps and they will last much longer.... And unless you have some very good ball bearings and a DC brushless motor, there is no way a 
mechanical system could last longer then a properly designed electronic
chaser. Here is the one I made for my Lunar model's J-2 back in about 1995, I think. I don't have the model any longer but this circuit is still going strong after all this time....:thumbsup:


----------



## Anothercoilgun (Aug 13, 2008)

Why stop at "Simulating" when you can... I don't know, define your own? :thumbsup:


----------



## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

teslabe said:


> ...Here is (an electronic chaser) I made for my Lunar model's J-2 back in about 1995...I don't have the model any longer but this circuit is still going strong after all this time...


You're just lucky there hasn't been a thermonuclear blast or gamma-ray burst in your neighborhood lately. I hardly think a motor-driven spinner would punk out under such circumstances.


----------



## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

Yes...I know.....

Here is a look inside my 2 foot Lunar models Jupiter 2. I built a central shaft out of 3 brass tubes slid into each other, but using shrink wrap as an insulating layer. The tube allows power to the fusion core, which for the model, had to be removable from the shaft to remove the "motor-Brushes-"V" spinner-module." I used a NWSL Model RR gearboxs w/brass gears to spin the shaft. I used 2 RC Car ball bearings that would fit on the largest of the brass tubes. These were pushed into wooden slots which allowed for proper alignment to the base of the thing. 

Also visible is the famous "Red Cap" DC motor used in as many heavy HO scaled Steam Locomotives as can fit them. These motors are long lasting in the Engines, where they do a lot more torque and heat than they do in the Jupiter 2 model. You can see my 6 LED's under the removable "V" Spinner at the top of the shaft. The white circle holding the LED's is a clear CD pack cd protector. I sprayed it flat clear so the 6 LEDs would also light the scrim in back of cabin.

Finally you can see one of the three High torque Futaba brass geared high precision servo that work the gear legs. These few photos were in the final prototype stages and the wiring was a rats nest. 


the second shot is the bottom, showing my fusion core light fixture. I used a Dean's Connector to disconnect the lights from the shaft.


----------



## teslabe (Oct 20, 2007)

toyroy said:


> You're just lucky there hasn't been a thermonuclear blast or gamma-ray burst in your neighborhood lately. I hardly think a motor-driven spinner would punk out under such circumstances.


Good news, checked the weather and no reports of thermonuclear blasts or 
gamma-rays in the L.A. area....


----------



## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

^That's on the _weather_ page? No wonder I never know these things!


----------



## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

I should say that I have no problem with electronic chaser systems; I'm just pointing out that mechanical spinners are another inexpensive lighting option. If designed right, they too can be replaced with minimum fuss and cost.


----------



## sortofamess (Jan 25, 2010)

Hi teslabe,

Do you still have the high res pics of the mods you made to the board? I just ordered one myself for a different application and am going to have to add some more LEDs to it. So, if you have those pics still I'd love to see them. Thanks.




teslabe said:


> Hi All,
> Here is my modified board, take a look at my post at the top of this page for a picture of the unmodified board. I used 2N2222A transistors and that will give me about 500ma per port. It fits fine in the core so I will only have two very small wires to deal with.:thumbsup: Traces need to be cut on 16 pads and the transistors "just fit".:freak: A ground wire needs to be added to eight pads, I did it on the backside of my board, this is for the Emitter. If anyone would like some high res pictures of my mods just send a PM.
> 
> P.S. You need to be a good solder for this and use extra flux......:wave:


----------



## teslabe (Oct 20, 2007)

sortofamess said:


> Hi teslabe,
> 
> Do you still have the high res pics of the mods you made to the board? I just ordered one myself for a different application and am going to have to add some more LEDs to it. So, if you have those pics still I'd love to see them. Thanks.


Just sent you a PM.


----------



## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

The following is ripped-off from http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=277804

I've been taking a looksee at the fusion core spinner. The core has 32 panes, which is not evenly divisible by 6. It is divisible by 8, and so all electronic spinners have had 8 lights. However, there is another electronic solution which will render a six light spinner about as accurate as any mechanical spinner could be expected to be.

Here's the geometry. For the six light electronic spinner, ideally there should be 30 or 36 core panes. In the first case, every fifth pane would be lighted; in the second case, every sixth pane. 

In the case of 32 panes, it turns out that there can be a lighted pane every 5 panes in the first, third, fourth, and sixth angular segments, and every 6 panes in the second and fifth segments. In other words(for example,) pane numbers 1, 6, 12, 17, 22, and 28 are lighted. If you draw this out on paper, you'll see that the angular segments separated by 6 panes are diagonally opposite each other. The slight unevenness of such an arrangement would escape notice even if the lights were static. And, I dare say, most six light mechanical spinners won't have even this much angular accuracy.

I realize this will be a little more challenging to program on a chip than an eight light spinner. It will be interesting to see if anyone is up to it.


----------



## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

I'd like to hear some more about this option!


----------

