# Very interesting Email from Aurora



## wolfman66

*Very interesting Email from Aurora BIG FRANKIE COMING 2008*

While back on ebay one of the original Aurora owner son's bought one of my Cave scenes on a buy now well he just bought another kit from me one of my Aurora Buffalos thats was complete with box.He also sent me a message to my through ebay to my account wich is very interesting and thought to share it with ya if anyone is interested in reading this.I definitly like to hear your what you all think of this message he sent me? 

Dear auroraman642, 

THANKS DANNY. MY GRANDFATHER AND HIS COUSIN OWNED AURORA WITH 2 OTHERS FROM 1950-1970. MY FATHER JUST RESTARTED THE COMPANY AND THE FIRST MODELS ARE OUT IN SEPT-OCT. CHECK THE SITE AT www.auroraplasticscorp.com HE IS ALSO GOING TO HAVE PEOPLE OPEN THEIR OWN ACCOUNTS IF YOU ARE INTERESTED JUST SEND YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS TO [email protected] AND YOU WILL GET A ACCOUNT. YOU CAN SELL THEM AT RETAIL OR BUY THEM FOR YOURSELF. ANYWAY, THANKS AGAIN. 

DR. GENNARO GIAMMARINO, III


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## Carson Dyle

Not sure what to make of that.

The website looks a little, ah, unprofessional.

Guess we'll hafta wait and see.


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## Ravenauthor

wonder how much money they are asking for to open an account...:drunk:


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## Seaview

Let's just keep an eye on it for now; it looks like the Flying Sub and The Invaders UFO have a chance at being reissued (and yes, I remember LAPCO).


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## Duck Fink

Man, as much as I would really like to see a lot of these kits reissued that they have on their website, I just need to see the kits in circulation before I can get excited about this. There has been too much buzz about these guys. Hope they prove me wrong.


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## spe130

If they bring back the Knights, I'll be there.


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## Mark McGovern

Things are gonna get reeeal interesting come a week from tomorrow... 


Mark McG.


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## wolfman66

You guys know more about these fella's than me and reading your posts on them specially when they were Lapco and now the New Aurora makes me wonder are they going to reissue all those kits or are they trying to pull a fast one again like before and why resort to buying kits on ebay partially built up or missing pieces why not just ask Revell/Monogram if they can buy there molds back if they still even have them?


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## the Dabbler

It gets curiouser and curiouser.....


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## spe130

wolfman66 said:


> You guys know more about these fella's than me and reading your posts on them specially when they were Lapco and now the New Aurora makes me wonder are they going to reissue all those kits or are they trying to pull a fast one again like before and why resort to buying kits on ebay partially built up or missing pieces why not just ask Revell/Monogram if they can buy there molds back if they still even have them?


We know that at least SOME of the Aurora molds were destroyed in the infamous train accident. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the others weren't recycled if Revell/Monogram thought they were never going to be used again. Others may have decayed over the past 30-40 years, especially if improperly stored.

I'm still in the "I'll believe it when I'm actually buying a Knight kit" camp.


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## brineb

I am waiting to see if anything actually comes of it ... but if something does, i will be happy!!! It would be cool to have some of the harder to find kits back in action!!!


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## Dr. Pretorius

Yep, after looking at the website, the jury's still out.

From the "2007 products page" we know that the "Submarine", "U.F.O.", and the "Wolf-Pack U-Boat" were released in the past by Monogram/Revell. If Revell still has all the molds of the kits listed on the page, then this new Aurora company could rent the molds for a pressing like CineModels and Polar Lights have done. 

It's the "special additives" that have me intrigued. What are they? After market parts? 
new decals?

If this is for real, great! If not, I'm not going to be too upset.

We just have to wait and see...


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## John P

Dr. Pretorius said:


> It's the "special additives" that have me intrigued. What are they? After market parts?
> new decals?


 Vitamins?

Hamburger Helper?

Flouride?


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## Arronax

I can't believe we're actually discussing this like it's going to happen. 

Clue #1: If they were serious, would they create such a bad website with so much unbelievable information

Clue #2: These are the same people that did LAPCO

Clue #3: The first date for announcements (August 16) has come and gone

Clue #4: They aren't exactly generating much excitement

OK. Call me a party pooper but I'm with most of you in that I'll believe it when I see it on the shelves.

Jim


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## Dave Metzner

Ok Jim 
You're a party pooper! 
So am I - everybody knows that!
I agree with you 100% 
New Aurora looks pretty lame to me too!

LOL

Dave


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## F91

Mark- Are you holding out on us?



Mark McGovern said:


> Things are gonna get reeeal interesting come a week from tomorrow...
> 
> 
> Mark McG.


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## ClubTepes

Ok this is gonna sound a little strange. I guess I'm a bit young (at 40) to understand the whole Aurora thing.


But I just have no interest in any of those figure kits and I'm not sure how they will be accepted in todays market.

Also, on a lot of the aircraft, armor, etc. if the new product isn't as good or better than existing product currently available, whats the point.

About the only thing that I saw that I did like was that they were going to be doing everything in the US. 
But with the product I saw, my hopes aren't high.

I know nostalgia has done well for say Polar Lights, but it seems they are banking a lot on just the name 'Aurora'.


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## fluke

Dude! 40 is not that young for Aurora....tail end.... yes. I'm 43 and was able to pick a few off the shelves up to 75.

*'IF'* and man do I mean* 'IF'* this turns to reality....the name AURORA on the box would be quit a big deal indeed.
.....but then again Pigs don't fly.


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## Roland

Here we go again!


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## wolfman66

fluke said:


> Dude! 40 is not that young for Aurora....tail end.... yes. I'm 43 and was able to pick a few off the shelves up to 75.
> 
> *'IF'* and man do I mean* 'IF'* this turns to reality....the name AURORA on the box would be quit a big deal indeed.
> .....but then again Pigs don't fly.


Ya as long as they make the kits in Styrene and not resin!


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## rat salad

Arronax said:


> Clue #1: If they were serious, would they create such a bad website with so much unbelievable information


Well, it is possible that if they're a very close/tight, Italian /American family that they had someone in their family, who claims he's a web designer, to do the website. I'll bet 10-to-1 that a family member slapped the site together. Because web software is so readily available and easy to use nowadays, everybody and their uncle thinks they can design a website. Ugly websites totally outnumber nice ones on the internet.


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## rat salad

ClubTepes said:


> About the only thing that I saw that I did like was that they were going to be doing everything in the US.


And that rocks!
:thumbsup: 
Just about everything in our country nowadays is Made In China.


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## rat salad

fluke said:


> I'm 43 and was able to pick a few off the shelves up to 75.


Same here. I built my first monster models in the late 1960's at 5, 6, 7 years old. I built them up til I was bout 11 (1974).


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## Dave Metzner

Just a quick question.
IF there are real kits coming out on August 25 why no announced prices yet???
The kits were to be out on August 16 WHY NO PRICES YET???

My point is that REAL companies with REAL products usually announce REAL PRICES when they announce release dates.........

Am I the only one who is curious why NO ANNOUNCED PRICES??????????

Don't the Aurorra guys know yet?

At Polar Lights I always knew what the kit costs and retail prices were going to be BEFORE we even had our first mock-up of the kit back from our factory. That was usually a YEAR or more BEFORE the kit was due on the store shelves!!!!!!!

Dave


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## the Dabbler

Not only that Dave, but the site itself just looks like hurry-up posting of a copy of an old Aurora ad. And *ALL* those models ?? For a "start-up" company. Running on past reputation it looks like ??


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## THRUSH Central

Well.... I just emailed and asked about advance purchasing. We'll see... THRUSH.


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## Dave Metzner

Hey Thrush,
Just some friendly advice, Don't let them talk you into sending any advanced payments! 

Dave


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## the Dabbler

OH GOD ! Does that mean I shouldn't have given them my credit card number ?  But they seemed so nice ! ! ..................................


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## GlennME

Gee, all I ever got was an interesting email from the President of the Nigerian Oil Company. 

Glenn


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## the Dabbler

HE seems like a nice fella too ! :dude:


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## frankenstyrene

They might as well offer to pave your driveway or do roofing. Those guys often don't show up and do the job as promised, either.


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## Lloyd Collins

I bought stocks in the company, and expect great things from them. :freak: :tongue:


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## Scott Hasty

I CANNOT believe ANOTHER thread was started about this idiocy. I CANNOT believe, I'm posting in it....oh well, looking at some of the posts, PT Barnum was correct!


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## modelgeek

Great news!!! I can't wait for the Easter Bunny and Toothfairy and Santa claus kits!!!! OH bOY!!!!!!!!


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## the Dabbler

Oh you silly....you know there's no Tooth Fairy !!....................If there were I'd have gotten wholesale prices by now !


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## Duck Fink

the Dabbler said:


> Oh you silly....you know there's no Tooth Fairy !!....................If there were I'd have gotten wholesale prices by now !


You could save yourself a couple of bucks and start casting your OWN teeth in resin!


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## modelgeek

the Dabbler said:


> Oh you silly....you know there's no Tooth Fairy !!....................If there were I'd have gotten wholesale prices by now !


OhNo!!! Now what?? I suppose your going to tell me there are no leprechans as well...Geeeezee you guys really know how to hit where it hurts :dude:


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## the Dabbler

Oh No, there are definitely Leprechans, I used to see them a lot.........But then again I imbibed a tad of the tall and foamy back in the days of yore. :drunk: You think this handlebar is a mustache, ? ....it's curb feelers.


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## Mark McGovern

F91 said:


> Mark- Are you holding out on us?


No, Eff - I just meant that Aurora said it's going to release some kits on August 25, a week from my post. So I figured that it'll be real interesting to see whether the announcements come true or not.

Mark McGee, me holding out on something? Don't you trust this face - :freak: ?


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## Tres Wright

_Re-Birth of a* Legacy*

On March 9, 1950, a *legacy* was born, from a garage, in Brooklyn, New York and in 1977, that *legacy* ended. Now, 30 years after that *legacy*'s end, AURORA PLASTICS CORPORATION is Re-born to carry on what was never done, but only dreamed. Our pledge to you is simple, We will 
bring back what was lost and at the same time add to that *LEGACY*..._

My 13 year-old writes much better than this, maybe that's my *LEGACY* to her, LOL!


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## david-5877

Well, if this is another hoax by them, they have sucked in a big distributor Stevens International, and like some of you have said, no prices have been listed on their website yet either.


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## Rattrap

August 25...

How often (other than the newest Harry Potter novel) do you see a new item released on a Saturday?


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## wolfman66

Another interesting email from the Aurora guys read this one.
Our kits will be accessable to all. Your can get them from Distributors, Dealers, Hobby Shops or open your own account with us by responding to this e-mail with your name and address. We are going to do Big Frankie in 2008.
Thank you, 
The Giammarino Family
_________________


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## THRUSH Central

Okay. I confess. I've just committed myself and our company to opening an account with AURORA. I figure each man has to decide for him/herself and I just WANNA BELIEVE! If I get burned it will hurt but, if it works, I'll have,perhaps, some new,original AURORA model kits. "Once more into the breech dear friends..." Thrush


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## A Taylor

You can believe in one hand and poop in the other - but you still won't get any kits from these morons... just a handful of poop.
And who wants that, really...


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## StarshipClass

frankenstyrene said:


> They might as well offer to pave your driveway or do roofing. Those guys often don't show up and do the job as promised, either.


You have Irish Travellers up there, too??


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## Dave Metzner

Thrush,
Jump right into the breach if you must! Hope you're wearing your asbestos underwear!
AND I sure hope you didn't give them a your credit card number!

Dave


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## The-Nightsky

"C'mon you Apes! Who wants to live forever?!"


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## Mark McGovern

THRUSH Central said:


> ...I just WANNA BELIEVE!...


Bless you Thrush. If things don't work out, though, you'll be surrounded by a group of friends who all have plenty of glue to help put the pieces back together.

Mark McG.


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## THRUSH Central

Thanks, guys. I always was a sucker for a pretty face... or a longshot! Guess that's why I always pulled for Georgia Tech over Georgia...A glutton for punishment! I'll let ya'll know how it all goes down.. for good or for ill. Thrush.


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## Zorro

wolfman66 said:


> Another interesting email from the Aurora guys read this one.
> Our kits will be accessable to all. Your can get them from Distributors, Dealers, Hobby Shops or open your own account with us by responding to this e-mail with your name and address. We are going to do Big Frankie in 2008.
> Thank you,
> The Giammarino Family
> _________________


... and I'm gonna' do Salma Hayak in 2008.


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## THRUSH Central

No! No! Me First! Me First!....Selma? I thought that was in Alabama??? Thrush


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## fluke

*Be with us next week when nurse Piggy says "Oh Doctor... I think the patient is suffering from Giammarinoidus"*


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## Admiral Nelson

The same folks were behind LAPCO. God almighty, will people ever learn?


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## THRUSH Central

No. I are drain bramaged. Worse than Bizzaro state of mind. My dogs LAP up their water. Thrush


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## StarshipClass

Call me silly, but I'm still waiting patiently for the Lubliner _Seaview _:tongue:


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## John P

Silleeee!


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## THRUSH Central

The kind folks at AURORA are sending me a packet designed to set me up with an account. I am going to set out on what may be a fool's errand but maybe we need a test case to see how it goes. I volunteer to be "the boards" unofficial "rabbit". I will go through the process, let ya'll know what is required, what I did in terms of investment and whether or not their words and deeds matched up with their claims. Then we'll all know if it is a scam or if they can be trusted and it is safe for all of us to "jump in". I'll try to post as long as this thread lasts and/or as events warrant then start my own thread if need be.

As of now the material is in the mail to me. If ya'll want to know the exact particulars of the application/investment I will communicate them if not I'll return the application and update you as things do, or don't happen. Sound off as to what would help most. Thrush


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## ShadOAB

I really would be surprised if they're not tuning in to this BB. I could be wrong...but they'd have to be really, really stupid if the weren't tuning in. 

Regardless...report on!

I'm looking forward to hearing what you encounter in the near future.


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## the Dabbler

I volunteer to be "the boards" unofficial "rabbit". 

Oh NO !! What if the rabbit dies like it did before and got me into _this_ mess. :freak: 
However, report as conditions indicate.


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## scotpens

PerfesserCoffee said:


> Call me silly, but I'm still waiting patiently for the Lubliner _Seaview _:tongue:


And Linus is staying up all Halloween night, waiting patiently for the Great Pumpkin!


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## razorwyre1

ShadOAB said:


> I really would be surprised if they're not tuning in to this BB. I could be wrong...but they'd have to be really, really stupid if the weren't tuning in.
> 
> Regardless...report on!
> 
> I'm looking forward to hearing what you encounter in the near future.


if i were them i might look in, but wouldnt stay for long. nobody likes reading that they are con artists (even if its the truth).


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## Dr. Pretorius

Some kits should be available tomorrow, the 25th. 


Uh...yea.


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## Mark McGovern

FOK-KER! FOK-KER! FOK-KER!!


Mark McGee, it's gonna get interesting tomorrow!


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## StarshipClass

scotpens said:


> And Linus is staying up all Halloween night, waiting patiently for the Great Pumpkin!


Oooh! Where do I stand in line for that one?


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## UM_Plastics_Fan

*My response from APC*

Hi everyone!

I just had to write these guys; the following is my e-mail and their response:

Hi Aurora!

I have been anxiously awaiting these "August 25, 2007 Releases", especially the Alien Sub, the UFO, and the Vampire; could you tell me/us where they will be available (and if still on 8/25)?
I hope to be picking them up soon!

Thank you,
Mike

"Gennaro Giammarino III <[email protected]>" responded:

Mike,

The Website will be updated by Sunday. The Pre-Order Date is August 25th and the Shipping Date is September. The Kits should be on shelves by the end of September or beginning of October. Any orders placed will not be billed until they ship. You can buy direct from us with a Personal Aurora Account, but we are selling to all the Major Distributors and Dealer. if you have a Hobby Shop you frequent, let them e-mail us with a request for a Wholesale Catalog and Account Application.

Sincerely,
Gennaro & Michael Giammarino

I was honest and sincere in my inquiry; I truly hope that their answer is the same- but I AIN'T "buy[ing] direct from us with a Personal Aurora Account" :tongue: 

Model Mikey


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## bigdaddydaveh

I just want an 'alien sub' that doesn't cost $90. If it ever happens, I'll be a happy man. That's the only thing I would purchase and I'll darn well wait till I see it on a shelf before spending any $$$. This con is just too funny to watch. It's sort of like listening to a three-year-old telling a lie. You just wonder how far they will go before crawling back into their hole...


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## Dr. Pretorius

UM_Plastics_Fan said:


> "Gennaro Giammarino III <[email protected]>" responded:
> 
> 
> 
> The Website will be updated by Sunday.


 
Uh...yea.


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## xsavoie

Well,if these kits are readily available in stores and hobby shops,there are no risks involved.We just have to sit back an wait.One question remains.Will their kits moldings be precise.Just like Moebius,they should make sure that the final product is of the finest quality.Great details and good fitting are a must.If they are to release the Gold Knight soon,I can hardly wait.


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## Mark McGovern

*Uhmm........yeah...*

Guys,

I just checked the Aurora site. Nothing new that I can see - much of it is still "under construction". Y'know what? Things are beginning to look less interesting over there.

Mark McG.


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## Capt. Krik

OK, just to throw a fly in the ointment, check out the thread by Thomas Graham. Thomas as you know is the author of the best selling Aurora Models books.

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=193980

Mind you, I still have my doubts about this new Aurora but Tom at least backs up a few of the claims Giammarino was making about owning duplicate molds.

I guess we'll just have to wait until October to see if anything shows up at the hobby shops.


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## Admiral Nelson

*More on this topic*

http://p075.ezboard.com/and-now-the-Return-Of-Aurora/fmonsterkidclassichorrorforumfrm30.showMessage?topicID=338.topic


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## Scott Hasty

MAN!!

If I had come up with a crappy website with old Aurora stuff claiming the re-birth of a beloved product line and asked everyone for investment money, I'd be stinking, filthy rich!!

This has gone beyond silly to STUPID....

COME ON NEW AURORA OWNERS, CHALLENGE ME!!!


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## wolfman66

I had to take a spin by my Hobby store recently and pickup some supplies and asked the owners if they heard any news about Aurora coming back and word is they have and were contacted by some rep about carrying their kits.So hopefully this is not a Hoax and this time around will see once again Aurora kits on the shelves.Also if you go to Megahobby website on the coming soon section they have a list of Aurora's kits that are coming out.


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## Guy Schlicter

I emailed the New Aurora on Friday,and recieved a reply,they told me start spreading the news.Of course I'm skepical.Are they a real company!!Rebirth of Aurora huh!.When,I'm holding a Flying Sub model,actually produced from them,then I'll believe it.They sound like nice people,but you never know,Guy Schlicter.


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## Todd P.

Hmmmm...10:49 p.m. MDT and the Web site doesn't look updated to me.


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## THRUSH Central

Still haven't received the promised material as of this Monday's mail. Thrush.


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## Steve244

Is it me, or are there subtle differences on their website today?

Stuff like their logo. 










And another company's logo on this box (link) :










And a not so subtle announcement dated 8/25 heh. along with prices and dates.


oo ooo and the Alien Sub is gone.


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## otto

Hmmmm. maybe they discovered they didnt have rights to the Aurora name. Check the lists again , they have release dates for Oct and Sept. The UFO is listed along with Blackbeard and Capt Kidd. The "Alien Sub" is gone... Now lets wait and see what, if anything, happens.....otto


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## otto

Anybody notice the old Geometric logo on the bottom right hand corner of the Vampire kit? Whats up wid dat????...Otto


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## Todd P.

I didn't notice before that Captain Kidd was among the repops. Be neat if it comes through.


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## phrankenstign

The A Plastics Corp Line doesn't have a nice ring to it like the original did.

In fact, I thought it was the "Plastics A Corp. _____________Line" when I first looked at it. I thought the "_____________" had taken the place of a missing word.

Perhaps this company is morphing into the "Lost Geometric A Plastics Corp. _____________Line".


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## otto

If I was starting up the company, Blackbeard and Captain Kid would be my first two releases. I think they would be great sellers right now, and they are two of the best kits Auroura made. Ahh ..and no licensing hasslels...Its a no brainer, I think its a little early to try and do a repop of the Forgotten prisoner though..otto


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## LT Firedog

Ok, This is too flippin weird. I just received (via UPS) two Forgotten Prisoner kits that I had ordered from a LHS and had just set them down when I went on line to check the BB. Then seeing the up-date I went to the A web page. THE Forgotten Prisoner?
Who has the molds? Is Revell Monogram going to make a run for A-corp?
$29.95 for A-corp. I snatched 2 for $18.98 ea.for the PL version. Interesting because flea-bay prices I’ve seen em go for $50 range. So I’m a happy camper. Oh I had to get a few more FP kits to go with my Ghost of Castle Mare kits that I can’t wait to see and own build/paint from Monarch. 
Notice no logo on the FP or Blackbeard.


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## Todd P.

I keep hitting the link above and keep going to the page that's been there for weeks instead of seeing the updates. Wonder if I'm doing something wrong...

A thought about the GEOmetric logo: The "A" folks told me sometime back that a couple of the kits would be issued in resin, which, to me, suggested a recast of the original kit. I suspected the vampire would be one of them. I now suspect that Al Matrone's GEOmetric is doing the resin casting work. I don't know Al all that well, but maybe I'll shoot him an e-mail.


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## Frankie Boy

LT firedog:

I don't understand your post. First of all, what's an LHS? 
Then you said "Then seeing the up-date I went to the A web page. THE Forgotten Prisoner?" I don't get it. What are you trying to say? The Forgotten Prisoner is on the A-Corp web site? If so, where is it located? I can't seem to find it.
"$29.95 for A-corp." Where did this come from?
"I snatched 2 for $18.98 ea.for the PL version. Interesting because flea-bay prices I’ve seen em go for $50 range." So where did you get a Prisoner for $18.98 then?


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## Todd P.

"LHS"="local hobby shop."


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## AFILMDUDE

The rebirth of Aurora or simply con artists...? Details of duplicate molds we all thought never existed or were lost or sold being confirmed... The mysterious "A" replacing the Aurora logo with no explanation... Then the Geometric logo conspicouosly appearing on box art... The Flying Sub suddenly vanishing off the list...

Actually this is a better drama than I usually find on TV!


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## phrankenstign

This is almost as mysterious as _*The Day The PLBB Stood Still!

*_*KlAtUu bArAdA NiKtO*


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## Arronax

The fact that their three famous fighters (the Pogo is a famous fighter?) are listed as 1/4 scale (instead of 1/4" scale) does not fill me with confidence that they know what they are doing.

I am equally curious as to how they can charge $31.95 for the 1/4 scale Vampire. That would mean it was only 1 1/2" tall. Or is it really 1/4 scale and not 1/4" scale.

Photos of actual models would be nice.

I am confused (not that any of these subjects make me reach for my wallet).

Jim


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## SteveR

Oh, this is so bogus.


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## veedubb67

Arronax said:


> The fact that their three famous fighters (the Pogo is a famous fighter?) are listed as 1/4 scale (instead of 1/4" scale) does not fill me with confidence that they know what they are doing.


Glad to see someone else saw that - I thought I was seeing things! :freak:


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## Frankie Boy

I found The Prisoner model (on the same page as, and next to, Blackbeard).

But what I can't find anymore is any mention of the August 25 pre-order date. The earliest dates for anything that I can now see are all SEPTEMBER 25. If you recall from a previous post:

"Hi Aurora!

I have been anxiously awaiting these "August 25, 2007 Releases", especially the Alien Sub, the UFO, and the Vampire; could you tell me/us where they will be available (and if still on 8/25)?
I hope to be picking them up soon!

Thank you,
Mike

"Gennaro Giammarino III <[email protected]>" responded:

Mike,

The Website will be updated by Sunday. The Pre-Order Date is August 25th and the Shipping Date is September. The Kits should be on shelves by the end of September or beginning of October. Any orders placed will not be billed until they ship. You can buy direct from us with a Personal Aurora Account, but we are selling to all the Major Distributors and Dealer. if you have a Hobby Shop you frequent, let them e-mail us with a request for a Wholesale Catalog and Account Application.

Sincerely,
Gennaro & Michael Giammarino"



Gentlemen, this is all silliness. If these guys aren't scammers, then they're certainly clowns.


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## Todd P.

I got in touch with Al at GEO asking about his involvement and whether any kits would be resin. Here's his response:



> (the Vampire) is just one of the kits that geo and aurora is doing a new venture on. the Forgotton Prisoner is another figure kit. the Vampire is going to be in resin, & the Prisoner is in plastic. along with some airplane kits, & ships. there are other things that will be done but until the license are done that will be on the drawing boards.
> 
> All that i mention above is in the works and some of the items hopefully will be release by christmas this year.


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## beck

i'm interested in seeing what the price will be on the Vampire . i bet a lot of the stuff will be produced in resin like Retroresin does . 
Al at Geometric is a good guy and a straight shooter .Geo has always produced quality kits . i sure hope the guys at A aren't trying anything shady with him . 
hb


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## Steve244

AFILMDUDE said:


> The rebirth of Aurora or simply con artists...? Details of duplicate molds we all thought never existed or were lost or sold being confirmed... The mysterious "A" replacing the Aurora logo with no explanation... Then the Geometric logo conspicouosly appearing on box art... The Flying Sub suddenly vanishing off the list...
> 
> Actually this is a better drama than I usually find on TV!


My thoughts exactly. How about this picture of the founders of the original Aurora (link) :










(the guy on the left looks literally cut and pasted).



> Gennaro Giammarino, Sr. (left) Founder & Silent Partner of Aurora, he started out with his Cousin Joseph and owned a smaller percentage of the company. (He) was the Laborer, who went on the road in the beginning to the Die Makers and to pick up Molds, with his Brockaway truck, until he started in 1957 working from 5 PM to 7 AM. He then worked as the Night Manager & Watchman, due to stealing of merchandise, from local Kids in the neighborhood. He was born in Sant'Angelo dei Lombardi, Italy on January 5, 1899. He retired in 1968, because of an injury to his left eye.*


It's not well enough done to be a con. But they may not be good businessmen either...

(They stole from neighborhood kids?)

*my edits


----------



## brineb

Steve244 said:


> (They stole from neighborhood kids?)


I think they mean that he worked nights because local kids were stealing ... but I may be wrong if this doesn't pan out!!


----------



## LT Firedog

Was the Forgotten Prisoner reversed engineer for/by for the PL version? Or is it the original aurora molds that Revell / Monogram made a limited run for PL?

I found my answer in my Aurora model Kit’s book that R/M made a run for both CineModels and Polar Lights. Interesting that Polar Lights was able to put the PL logo on ?

Wonder if that is what is up with `A-corp. ? Wonder what we will see as re-pops by Revell /Monogram under the A-corp. name 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


----------



## Dr. Pretorius

LT Firedog said:


> Wonder if that is what is up with `A-corp. ? Wonder what we will see as re-pops by Revell /Monogram under the A-corp. name


 

That is a possibilty if these guys are on the level.

It's my understanding that you could "rent" molds from revell. Which I'm guessing means they will press a run of kits for you. I believe that's how cinemodels and PL did it. If you look at Pl's Godzilla reissue, it's molded in the same lime green plastic as Monogram's 1976 issue.


----------



## MonsterModelMan

Todd P. said:


> I got in touch with Al at GEO asking about his involvement and whether any kits would be resin. Here's his response:


Well, if this is all true from Al at GEO then obviously something is going on as Al is a very straight up guy! It will be interesting to see if they do indeed do a few like Gene has done at RetroResin and then also do a few in plastic. I prefer seeing plastic kits as opposed to resin although I would take either. Resin just seems heavier and weighs more so it will probably cost more too!

Interesting thread~!

MMM


----------



## ChrisW

Dr. Pretorius said:


> That is a possibilty if these guys are on the level.
> 
> It's my understanding that you could "rent" molds from revell. Which I'm guessing means they will press a run of kits for you. I believe that's how cinemodels and PL did it. If you look at Pl's Godzilla reissue, it's molded in the same lime green plastic as Monogram's 1976 issue.


According to Dave Metzner (correct me if I'm wrong here Dave), towards the end of PL's life cycle, R-M declined to produce any more kits for them. That _may_ have been before the current regime at R-M, so their policy may have changed back...


----------



## Dr. Pretorius

I was just taking a stab in the dark as to how this A plastics corp. may be able to make all those kits they propose to do. 

On a similar note, does anyone know if Cinemodels still owns the copyright to the Aurora name and oval logo? Could that be why the name has changed to just the letter "A"?

Maybe I'm just flogging a dead horse, but this is all very intruiging.


----------



## fluke

I'm pretty sure that it was said here years ago that the 'oval' logo was an open market deal....its what goes inside it that counts?


----------



## LT Firedog

Ok , I figured to myself why not just ask them if they are a scam.

Forgotten Prisoner molds?
Just was wondering if you have the Aurora original molds for this one? (Or any of the 13) Or are they in the possession of Revell / Monogram or AMT / ERTL (Polar Lights) and they will lend them to you so you can make a run of them. Will we see square glow in the dark kits? Most of us builders are huge fans of the original big 13 models.
1.	Dracula 
2.	Frankenstein 
3.	Wolfman 
4.	Creature from the black lagoon 
5.	Mummy 
6.	Witch 
7.	Hunchback 
8.	Godzilla 
9.	King Kong 
10.	Forgotten Prisoner 
11.	Phantom of the Opera 
12.	Bride of Frankenstein 
13.	Dr, Jekyll

As you are aware other companies are and have made runs of these kits in different boxes or updated improved kits of basically the same kits.
I can understand the need and the importance for a company to protect ones copy rights. I just hope that we can all play nice in the sandbox. I suggest that kits that are or have been already produced by other companies (as long as they produced them legally because they fall under public domain) be left to continue without court battles.
Many have expressed that A-corp. is not legit or some kind of scam. Please prove them wrong the right way by playing nice in the sandbox. Make quality kits for a fare price keeping in the tradition of Aurora legacy. Remember even at the height of the plastic business companies like Aurora, Monogram. Revell.. talked to one another and planed and work together to grow the market I hope you can do the same with Revell / Monogram, Moebius, Monarch or any up and coming companies. 
Nothing will turn us in the modeling community off more then fighting in the sandbox, poor quality or over priced kits..

Here is the reply’

You will see them all out again. Some do not fall in public domain since the molds were leased and still belong to the Giammarino Estate, but we don't care if anyone else makes some kits. That is why we didn't do anythng about Moebius making Dr. Jekyll.. They should be able to do whatever they want to do. Doing what they are doing now is the best way they can go about it. They are releasing good models at good prices and taking it slowly. We have no qualms with whatever they do. We wish them luck just as we wish Monarch luck. I already talked to Monarch and congratulated them on their Nosferatu Kit.
I do not care what anyone says about Aurora. the last time we tried to get it going we got ripped off for $250,000. and had to close and go bankrupt. This time there are no partners, just Aurora helping out 2 other companies and those companies helping Aurora. One hand washes the other and it always should be that way. Thanks for the e-mail.
Sincerely,
Gennaro & Michael Giammarino


----------



## phrankenstign

*Whew!*



LT Firedog said:


> I do not care what anyone says about Aurora. the last time we tried to get it going we got ripped off for $250,000. and had to close and go bankrupt....
> Sincerely,
> Gennaro & Michael Giammarino


 I'm glad I listened when bwain came back from the model show where LAPCO had displayed their scant offereings (including the little Frankenstein bust). He suggested people run---not walk---away from any connection with LAPCO. I called LAPCO, cancelled my order, and requested my money back. I received it soon afterward. I sure am glad I didn't hesitate. Otherwise, some of that Lost Aurora Plastics Corporation money may have been mine!


----------



## crazy mike

"the last time we tried to get it going we got ripped off for $250,000. and had to close and go bankrupt. This time there are no partners".




That doesn't jive with what they posted when LAPCO folded. I believe it was medical problems back then. I remember a lot of what was said but without archives to back it up I can't post it.

I wish mrdean could fill us in on some blank spots. Is a nondisclosure agreement still valid after a bankruptcy? Are there any archives on the old "Aurora One List"?

( note to self- Buy new BS meter. Need heavy duty model for this subject)


----------



## phrankenstign

I seem to remember medical problems being given as a reason for its demise also.

I seem to remember a PLBB member mentioning he'd been commissioned to create some artwork for them, but was never paid afterwards. I wonder who actually ended up with the $250,000 that was supposedly lost.


----------



## fluke

Drama.....like...man this is great reading. I'm really digging this! :freak:


----------



## Frankie Boy

Recommended reading:

"The Art of the Con" by Donald Chump


----------



## LT Firedog

The best Con is when the person whom was con'ed doesn't know it.

We need the music to the movie The STING to go along with this thread.



Frankie Boy said:


> Recommended reading:
> 
> "The Art of the Con" by Donald Chump


----------



## SteveR

_"the last time we tried to get it going we got ripped off for $250,000. and had to close and go bankrupt. This time there are no partners"._

When I read that, I thought "maybe their partners at LAPCO were the scammers, and these guys got tarred with the same brush." Hm.

Learned so far:
1. We generally believe what we want to believe
2. Website quality affects credibility
3. Over-promising affects credibility
4. The bigger you are (e.g. styrene vs. GK resin) the more you need to adhere to accepted marketing practices to gain credibility (e.g. pricing and scheduling)


----------



## GlennME

Steve244 said:


> (the guy on the left looks literally cut and pasted).












Yeah, but he does look familiar.

Glenn 

.


----------



## Frankie Boy

LMAO! That's perfect!


----------



## Dave Metzner

PULEEEEEZE!
"The tools were leased" and still belong to the Giamarino estate!!!!!!
I'll bet Revell and Hobbico's lawyers will have a FIELD DAY with that one!


----------



## Lloyd Collins

With this soap opera, when will the love interest come into the story.


----------



## ShadOAB

To add to the pile...they're doing slot cars too!

http://east-coast-slot-cars.tripod.com/id20.html


----------



## scotpens

LT Firedog said:


> We need the music to the movie The STING to go along with this thread.


http://members.aol.com/goodren/entertn1.mid


----------



## THRUSH Central

Update. Still no sign of material promised to me to set up an account. Waiting. Thrush.


----------



## crazy mike

I wonder if they will try to reclaim K&B? Chuckle.


----------



## THRUSH Central

Have received materials from Aurora and am filling them out to make initial order. catalog selection looks amazing! Something for everyone including new models, etc. Even a "Big Frankie" Thrush.


----------



## phrankenstign

THRUSH Central said:


> Have...blah--blah... new models, etc. Even a "Big Frankie" Thrush.


Does Monsterluver/Tiny/Drew work for A Corp?


----------



## THRUSH Central

Have filled out paperwork. Sending it in with order form by Monday. Going to try and invest anywhere in from 6 to 12 kits from each offering. Will let ya'll know if merchandise makes it here. Will let you know IF/when it is safe "to go into the water." I will be honest and let ya'll know whatever happens. I'll invest in a digital camera and post pics IF the "impossible dream" works! If I get "taken" it will be my loss and ya'll will be the first to know! Ouch! (And then I'll post pics of an embarrassed ONI guy!) "Once more into the breach, dear friends.." Chow! Thrush


----------



## John P

Brave man, Brave man,


----------



## Admiral Nelson

I'm turning blue holding my breath! Any word yet? :/


----------



## Buroughsplastic

*Aurora*

I sent them a request for the account infor on Sunday, and already got a reply saying they'll send the info and catalog this week.

Call me gullible, but, I think there may actually be something to this. 

We shall see, though. 

But as someone else said, I am not sure how much of a demand for the old Aurora kits there will be, once the limited faction of diehard modelers have all gotten their fill. I doubt the general target market would be interested in the building these styrene kits, anymore, given that the shelves are filled with outstanding ready to display pieces like McFarlane, Neca figures, etc.


----------



## Scott Hasty

Buroughsplastic said:


> Call me gullible, but, I think there may actually be something to this.


Okay, you're gullible...

HELL, you asked for it..


----------



## John P

I thought we couldn't say hell.


----------



## THRUSH Central

Sending form and check in tomorrow. The rest is just "wait and see". Thrush.


----------



## the Dabbler

At least you'll have the cancelled check as a souvenir.


----------



## beck

i wouldn't send them any $$ until they actually have something to offer . 
hb


----------



## Admiral Nelson

A fool and his money are now parted.


----------



## Scott Hasty

THRUSH Central said:


> Sending form and check in tomorrow. The rest is just "wait and see". Thrush.


Ouch...I would open a new checking account ASAP! Now that hey have your routing and account numbers, they can do untold things to your account. Checks are quickly becoming the choice of fraud as they are easily "washed" and copied. Stores never question the MICR if it doesn't work and rarely ask for identification. Additionally, banks no longer pay attention tot he accuracy of the signature, just if it's there. Not to mention you can pay for virtually anything online using a checking account all you need is....the routing and account numbers....

If you had used a real credit card (not a debit card), you would only be responsible for up to $50 and would risk loosing little to nothing.


----------



## MadCap Romanian

Hey Thrush, I also hope you're getting a good group of lawers ready and assembled to take this case if you don't hear anything in 3 months.


----------



## Scott Hasty

MadCap Romanian said:


> Hey Thrush, I also hope you're getting a good group of lawers ready and assembled to take this case if you don't hear anything in 3 months.


3 months?!?! You're an optimist....


----------



## MadCap Romanian

Here's one thing I don't understand with these guys : 



> I do not care what anyone says about Aurora. The last time we tried to get it going we got ripped off for $250,000 and had to close and go bankrupt. This time there are no partners, just Aurora helping out 2 other companies and those companies helping Aurora. One hand washes the other and it always should be that way. Thanks for the e-mail.





> Our kits will be accessable to all. You can get them from Distributors, Dealers, Hobby Shops or open your own account with us by responding to this e-mail with your name and address.





> You can buy direct from us with a Personal Aurora Account, but we are selling to all the Major Distributors and Dealer. If you have a Hobby Shop you frequent, let them e-mail us with a request for a Wholesale Catalog and Account Application.


Why don't they name any of these people they are in contact with? 



> just Aurora helping out 2 other companies and those companies helping Aurora.


Ok, WHAT companies are those?



> You can get them from Distributors, Dealers, and Hobby Shops.


OK, WHAT Distributors, WHAT Dealers and WHAT hobby shops? 



> We are selling to all the Major Distributors and Dealers. If you have a Hobby Shop you frequent, let them e-mail us with a request for a Wholesale Catalog and Account Application.


So if they are dealing with Distributors, Dealers, and Hobby Shops, WHY do they need to ask you to "recruit" your Local Hobby Shop? Isn't that the job of the Distributors and Dealers?

None of this makes sense!

If they were REALLY dealing with other people, why all the shadiness? 

Monarch and Moebius have been telling people who they've been dealing with and they even list hobby shops on their web sites. That's how these two have been able to keep us informed and to promote their products. Why haven't the "A" group done the same? Wouldn't you think they would want people to know where to buy their kits to get their name out?


----------



## Scott Hasty

MadCap Romanian said:


> None of this makes sense!


BINGO!!


----------



## Zorro

And now they're not even calling themselves "Aurora" anymore. Looks like the whole endeavor is going down the "A" hole.


----------



## Arronax

Zorro said:


> And now they're not even calling themselves "Aurora" anymore. Looks like the whole endeavor is going down the "A" hole.


Yet the text on their website still refers to Aurora models. :freak: 

All I can think is that there must be a lot of job openings at the Plastic A Corp - lawyer, web site designer, graphics artist, accountant, model builder, PR manager, marketing manager, sales manager for a start.

You know it's not that I don't want to believe these guys but throw us a bone already. Pictures of actual models and an online shopping cart would be a start.

I just hope someone's writing all this down so they can script the TV movie.

Why the heck am I even writing this post?

Jim


----------



## Buroughsplastic

Don't get me wrong.......I will certianly not send in any order or payment til I see that Thrush, the guinnea pig, has and recieved his order as promised, first. LOL


----------



## MadCap Romanian

Poor thrush!


----------



## THRUSH Central

I know guys. But someone should try, I believe. And I never ask any of my men to do that which I have not either done or are willing to do. (Besides, my wife said I need to become more of a risk taker!) But, I thought I had already proved that by marrying her!  Thrush.


----------



## Seaview

Y'know, all this reminds me of a famous Groucho Marx dialog from the classic film, Duck Soup;

"YOU'RE A BRAVE MAN! GO AND BREAK THROUGH THE LINES! REMEMBER, WHILE YOU'RE OUT THERE RISKING LIFE AND LIMB, WE'LL BE IN HERE THINKING WHAT A SUCKER YOU ARE!" 

Keep us posted anyway! :dude:


----------



## the Dabbler

Thrush's bio list him as "Intellegence Officer", ergo, that is either an oxymoron or he's running a sting opperation. ? Ooooh, the tension mounts....!! Tune in tomorrow, same time, same station ! Rememeber to drink your Ovaltine !


----------



## John P

It's too dangerous for a full squadron of modelers, but one modeler, flying very low, just might make it!

Darn... fool... kid...


----------



## Steve244

Well, what they didn't mention (I have it from a reliable source) is initial orders will be filled from old stock.


----------



## Seaview

"BUT...you should have listened to your father".
- Dr. Elsa Schneider, Indiana Jones & The Last Crusade


----------



## Admiral Nelson

Who's the more foolish: The fool, or the fool who follows him?


----------



## Scott Hasty

Steve244 said:


> Well, what they didn't mention (I have it from a reliable source) is initial orders will be filled from old stock.


What old stock? Surely when they went bankrupt in the late seventies any remaining stock was sold/auctioned off...


----------



## THRUSH Central

I"m.....going.....in......no....rudder......no...sense. Intelligence officer...an... oxymoron....especiallly...in...my...community. Thrush


----------



## 1:8 scale

*Stevens Hobby updated listing*

The Stevens Hobby website has updated their listing of the Aurora kits and prices. Including the MoM Frankie with glow in the dark. The Phantom of the Opera, The forgotten prisoner, are listed among others. Not that any of this means anything.  

And why is the UFO, a $15 Revell Monogram kit that I can still buy from my LHS, being listed at $50 from Aurora? Not that any of that means anything either. :freak: 

Jeff


----------



## Steve244

Scott Hasty said:


> What old stock? Surely when they went bankrupt in the late seventies any remaining stock was sold/auctioned off...


Sorry, bad joke. I meant to imply they had classic aurora kits stockpiled (which they don't; at least to my knowledge).


----------



## beck

we kow they've got at least one Eindecker plane kit . 
hb


----------



## Admiral Nelson

*Thrush*

Farewell and adieu to you, fair Spanish ladies. Farewell and adieu, you ladies of Spain. For we've received orders for to sail back to Boston. And so nevermore shall we see you again.


----------



## Scott Hasty

Steve244 said:


> Sorry, bad joke. I meant to imply they had classic aurora kits stockpiled (which they don't; at least to my knowledge).


LOL, joke received!!

:thumbsup:


----------



## fluke

Show me the way to go home....I'm tired and I want to kill this thread....
I built a little model about an hour ago and ...and....ah geeze I can't go on!


----------



## the Dabbler

FLUKE, just take two aspirin and call me on the morning the "A" kits come in.


----------



## Buroughsplastic

John P said:


> It's too dangerous for a full squadron of modelers, but one modeler, flying very low, just might make it!
> 
> ...


 :thumbsup: If he makes it through to the other side, I am right behind him. I've got my bayonette sharpened and my helmet shined, and a goodbye letter to my mammy, ready to go.


----------



## frankenstyrene

New Aurora's 2007 Releases (these are sure bets):

"Land of the Giants" Snake Oil kit

"Sir Fraud, Earl of Schmoe" Armored Knight

"Big Fakie"

"The Invisible and Intangible Man"

Aurora(TM) Brand tube of Air Putty

"Creature from the Empty Warehouse"

Soviet bomber TU-18-4 (think about it)

Wildlife Snipe kit, with free Snipe Hunting map and empty sack

Long Island air (exclusive Long Box edition)

Various "Forged&Foiled" kits

"Hot Rod "Smoke N' Mirrors" Kustomizing Kit

"Sons of Black Fury: Sound And Fury" (signifying exactly what you think they do)

"Dr. Getcha with Mr. Hype" 

"Bride of Fakenstein"


----------



## Scott Hasty

ROTFLMAOTIP...

Please Stop!!!!


----------



## Scott Hasty

fluke said:


> Show me the way to go home....I'm tired and I want to kill this thread....
> I built a little model about an hour ago and ...and....ah geeze I can't go on!


...just show me the way to go home...


----------



## fluke

Isn't that on AURORA ave? :lol:


----------



## THRUSH Central

Well, give a little "A-Roara" and we'll listen and let you know!:woohoo: Thrush.


----------



## Steve CultTVman Iverson

Guys, it is pretty apparent that the Giammarinos are working with Revell/Monogram to reissue at least some of the old Aurora kits. So if these kits show up in your LHS or your regular online retailers, will you be willing to buy these? Will you pay $30 for a reissue of the Phantom of the Opera or Forgotten Prisoner? Will you pay $27 for a MOM Frankenstein? These prices are higher than when Polar Lights reissued the kits. I remember when Toys R Us could not give away the MIM Frankie kits for 9.95. These prices are higher than Moebius or Monarch prices for comperable kits.

Steve


----------



## crazy mike

A Blackbeard or Captain Kidd I might buy at $34. Prolly pass on the rest. Just as with LAPCO I'll only buy what's on the LHS shelves.


----------



## scotpens

frankenstyrene said:


> . . . Soviet bomber TU-18-4 (think about it). . .


Okay, I give up. 

I DON'T GET IT!


----------



## the Dabbler

Glad you asked first cause I wasn't !


----------



## Lloyd Collins

What we have here, is a failure to communicate. Also,I think everyone here, is from Missouri.


----------



## Guest

18-4
US legal code for a felony perhaps? And i'm not from anywhere near Missouri by the way...unless you ignore the existance of the Atlantic ocean but even then it's still a bit of a long walk 

Go easy


----------



## Arronax

Good lord, ain't you got no command of the English language?

TU-18-4 - (wha)TU (w)eighteen 4. Say it fast, it makes more sense.

(Jeez, I hope that was right or I'm going to feel just plain silly.)

Jim


----------



## spe130

We do have to be shown to believe...


----------



## Seaview

I'm gonna play it safe and wait for Steve to say it's legit. Until then, I'll treat it as a con job the size of Montana.  

But "TU-18-4?"


----------



## frankenstyrene

Arronax said:


> Good lord, ain't you got no command of the English language?
> 
> TU-18-4 - (wha)TU (w)eighteen 4. Say it fast, it makes more sense.
> 
> (Jeez, I hope that was right or I'm going to feel just plain silly.)
> 
> Jim


Dang, Jim, that's pretty good, better than what I intended, actually:

TU + the 18th letter of our alphabet + the 4th...

Crude, but effective.


----------



## frankenstyrene

Steve CultTVman Iverson said:


> So if these kits show up in your LHS or your regular online retailers, will you be willing to buy these?


 Heck yeah! and I for one would be only too happy to apologize for all my skepticasm (or is it sarcism...a cross between skepticism and sarcasm, you pick what to call it). Until then, it's not our fault that (a) the "A" crowd is linked to prior shenanigans and (b) everything they've done this time around appears far, far too inept AND vague to be taken seriously. 

But yes, if molded styrene from Long Island appears once more on the shelves of an LHS - or better yet, on your site with a flashing red "IN STOCK!" tag - they'll get my money.


----------



## frankenstyrene

And depending on the kit, of course...got a stock of the most recent MotM Frank, so no buy there. But Blackbeard and Kidd? Sign me up, too.


----------



## SteveR

frankenstyrene said:


> But yes, if molded styrene from Long Island appears once more on the shelves of an LHS - or better yet, on your site with a flashing red "IN STOCK!" tag - they'll get my money.


It's not as risky as some purchases that require tech support, where you wait to see if the company has legs before you buy the gadget.


----------



## spe130

frankenstyrene said:


> And depending on the kit, of course...got a stock of the most recent MotM Frank, so no buy there. But Blackbeard and Kidd? Sign me up, too.


Give me the Pirates and the Knights, and I'll be veddy happy camper.


----------



## beck

i've said before and i'll say again , i'd buy the pirates if re released in styrene . whomever puts them out . 
those kits are just too cool ! 
hb


----------



## Dave Metzner

As far as I am aware the injection molding tools for the two Pirate kits is long ago gone.
I'm betting that the contents of those kits will turn out to be resin castings.

Dave


----------



## beck

Drat !!! 
hb


----------



## BigH827

I only mintues ago looked at there web page and the list of products they have is not posable because Aurora destroyed most of the figure molds in the 1960s to sell for scrap because the kids of the world kits did not sell. And when Aurora had the molds to the WW1 aircraft they welded the gates for the ground crews up to save money on plastic, and this info comes from the founders the book covering the history of Aurora.
Some of you wondered if they are realy doing this then why are they buying old kits, because they can use them to make new molds, thats how the guy who use to own Polar Lights made the molds for the Adams Family house. The unbuilt kit that he used cost $500 and that is from the now gone Polar Lights web page. Going by the prices they want they most have made new molds, because I have the Forker D VII in a Monogram box and there is not 30 some odd dollars worth of plastic in the box, and the tri plane would not use any more even with three wings.


----------



## frankenstyrene

*Ol' Blue Eyes rose from the grave to glare disapprovingly.*

_Start spreading the news
my dough's leaving today
I want to be a part of it 
New York, New York
(Long Island, to be precise)
These modeler's glues 
are longing to stain
a brand new Aurora 'struction sheet
from New York, New York

I wanna stay up painting 
getting no sleep
and come Wonderfest find 
I'm king of the hill 
top of the heap

These Hobbytalk blues 
are melting away, cuz
they'll make a brand new start of it 
in old New York
If they can make kits there
I'll buy 'em anywhere
Its up to you, _
_Gi-am-ma-ri-nos!_


----------



## the Dabbler

Eh,.... not bad, but don't quit your day job !


----------



## rat salad

So it's the middle of September.
Wasn't Aurora supposed to have something out by now?


----------



## flyingfrets

rat salad said:


> So it's the middle of September.
> Wasn't Aurora supposed to have something out by now?


Yes, but their announcements are kind of like farts. Surprising when they appear, stink pretty quickly and then...pfft...they're gone with the wind.


----------



## the Dabbler

Lovely metaphor !


----------



## fluke

LMAO!! :lol:


----------



## Scott Hasty

flyingfrets said:


> Yes, but their announcements are kind of like farts. Surprising when they appear, stink pretty quickly and then...pfft...they're gone with the wind.


Well, if you're using polyester resin and good fans, then yes, but.....


----------



## Lloyd Collins

I just checked the site, and saw the prices, wow!

The UFO coming in October, for only $44.95! What a deal!


----------



## Seaview

Y'know, now that I look at that web page again, it DOES kinda look like the old Aurora kit instructions, because of the type font they're using. 
There may be more to this than we collectively think, but as I said before, I'll reserve my final judgement when we hear from the mighty Cult-man himself.


----------



## otto

rat salad said:


> So it's the middle of September.
> Wasn't Aurora supposed to have something out by now?


 The september releases are being sold at the end of Sept, but wont be available till the end of october....dey said...(in my best igor voice) The october releases will be sold at the end of october, but not available till the end of november...dey said... I stole bodies....dey said...otto


----------



## Admiral Nelson

Seaview said:


> There may be more to this than we collectively think, but as I said before, I'll reserve my final judgement when we hear from the mighty Cult-man himself.


 
I can hardly contain myself waiting for that.


----------



## Scott Hasty

Lloyd Collins said:


> I just checked the site, and saw the prices, wow!
> 
> The UFO coming in October, for only $44.95! What a deal!


Well, they have to make some profit after getting it on eBay!!


----------



## fluke

Hey.....I could be wrong but thats not far off from how Polar Lights and Moebius obtained some masters?


----------



## Lloyd Collins

Scott Hasty said:


> Well, they have to make some profit after getting it on eBay!!


Interesting point. Here is a link for the current e-bay offering.
UFO MODEL


----------



## frankenstyrene

the Dabbler said:


> Eh,.... not bad, but don't quit your day job !


 
that is my day job *sniff*


----------



## GlennME

If you had to bet on what Aurora kits could reappear under the "A Corp" banner, you'd consider "The Forgotten Prisoner" and "The Invaders UFO" as reasonable bets because the molds still exist, and Monogram just might be induced to crank off a run of each for "A Corp" in exchange for some quick cash.

The Pirates might be a chance, but in resin, not styrene ... again, because the product already exists, and the people doing the recasting might agree to make a few for "A Corp."

Notice that none of these "reasonable bets" involves any likelihood of A Corps claim to have any of the original molds in their possession.

And, lets face it, the smart money is still on a no-show.

Glenn 

.


----------



## THRUSH Central

Update - Order was sent in for kits. (Multiple sets of each) We all now wait and see what transpires. Thrush.


----------



## Roy Kirchoff

Any news from "A corp" anyone?

RK


----------



## fluke

Don't you mean A-Crock? :tongue:


----------



## Mark McGovern

I thought Roy meant "A Corpse".


Mark McG.


----------



## phrankenstign

I thought I saw A Tumbleweed kit blow past A phantom of A kit....


----------



## THRUSH Central

Patience, my pretties....November 26th will carry the tale we tell...Don't wear yourselves out now. Patience. The smell of blood is not as good as actually seeing it in the water. Thrush.


----------



## scotpens

THRUSH Central said:


> The smell of blood is not as good as actually seeing it in the water.


Is that an old Klingon proverb?


----------



## Admiral Nelson

I smell a rat.


----------



## MadCap Romanian

> Update - Order was sent in for kits. (Multiple sets of each) We all now wait and see what transpires. Thrush.


1-800-Sue-A-Corp?


----------



## beck

November 26 ? have they changed thier promise of product interval to 2 months now ??
hb


----------



## MadCap Romanian

Like I said....1-800-sue a-corp!


----------



## flyingfrets

Admiral Nelson said:


> I smell a rat.


I smell another "fart."


----------



## scotpens

Can we say "fart" here?


----------



## Trek Ace

I think you just did.


----------



## John P

I did not! It was Fluke!


----------



## Seaview

"He who smelt it, dealt it." :jest:


----------



## Lloyd Collins

Polar Light is coming back!


----------



## Ohio_Southpaw

Seaview said:


> "He who smelt it, dealt it." :jest:


On a bulletin board, shouldn't it be "He who Spelt it, Dealt it"?


----------



## bigdaddydaveh

Uh, did anyone else notice the Geometric logo on the box art photos or am I just totally out of the loop. I noticed those today...  Sounds like Dave M's suspicions were right on the money. Resin re-pops, not long lost tooling after all. Why am I not surprised?


----------



## ChrisW

bigdaddydaveh said:


> Uh, did anyone else notice the Geometric logo on the box art photos or am I just totally out of the loop. I noticed those today...  Sounds like Dave M's suspicions were right on the money. Resin re-pops, not long lost tooling after all. Why am I not surprised?


Hi Dave - yea, that was mentioned earlier in this thread.
Unless I'm mistaken, I don't think they are appearing at the ihobby expo outside of Chicago that begins tomorrow. You'd think they'd want to introduce the company in a venue such as that... you'd think.


----------



## beck

and i saw today on e-bay the guy crowing about being the "official" painter for the New Aurora . 
he's got some really nice original painted BU's for sale though . 
seems all we get from the A guys is echos of rattling chains but no stuff .  
hb


----------



## flyingfrets

Hmm...not that I had any faith in the whole Aurora "comeback" being a reality, but these guys are so full of sh_t, it appears that what I smelled earlier may not have been another one of their "farts," but an actual turd.


----------



## BigH827

As I have said before these guys are nuts :freak: when it comes to their prices, $44.95 for the UFO kit :drunk: come on Monogram made a butt load of these things under there name. You can get them for under $20 on Ebay when no ones going nuts in some kind of bidding war. They are not going to make it if prices are not with the market, if they are for real.  I have seen Hawk kits in Wally World so may be Aurora is for real.


----------



## fluke

Your not seeing things.....Hawk kits have been bought by Testors company.

Things are looking up for styrene fer sure! Lindburg is releasing all kinds of cool kits too...including some of the funky Sci-Fi / space stuff.


----------



## bigdaddydaveh

Actually, the Hawk toolings were purchased by Tetors a long, long time ago. They, along with Lindberg were all under the RMP group which owned Testors and Pactra paints etc... I believe they sold off the Lindberg and Hawk properties to another party about a year ago and the new owners are the ones releasing these new kits and re-pops.


----------



## wolfman66

beck said:


> and i saw today on e-bay the guy crowing about being the "official" painter for the New Aurora .
> he's got some really nice original painted BU's for sale though .


HB,beware of leftys paint jobs on ebay!I bought a cavebear from him a while go and had to totally redo the whole kit :freak: .


----------



## John P

Aye, Testors has been selling Hawk kits since Hawk went away. Couple of decades now.


----------



## Ravenauthor

bigdaddydaveh said:


> Actually, the Hawk toolings were purchased by Tetors a long, long time ago. They, along with Lindberg were all under the RMP group which owned Testors and Pactra paints etc... I believe they sold off the Lindberg and Hawk properties to another party about a year ago and the new owners are the ones releasing these new kits and re-pops.


I believe Hawk and Lindberg are both under the J. Lloyd International umbrella now


----------



## MadCap Romanian

I'm just wondering....what happened to Thrush Central and the $$$ he sent to Aurora?


----------



## Zorro

MadCap Romanian said:


> I'm just wondering....what happened to Thrush Central and the $$$ he sent to Aurora?


Curious about that too.


----------



## Roy Kirchoff

I believe we're waiting until Nov. 26th. :freak: 


RK


----------



## Rebel Rocker

Roy Kirchoff said:


> I believe we're waiting until Nov. 26th. :freak:
> 
> 
> RK


.....at which time we will choose a _new_ date to wait for!!!:tongue: 

Wayne


----------



## frankenstyrene

_Modeler: Hello, I wish to register a complaint.

Owner: We're closin' for lunch. __

Modeler: Never mind that, my lad. I wish to complain about these kits you were supposed to have produced by now. 
_
_Owner: Oh yes, the, uh, the Aurora kits...What's, uh...what's wrong with 'em? _

_Modeler: I'll tell you what's wrong with them, my lad. They're not here, that's what's wrong with them. _

_Owner: No, no. They're...uh...they're resting._ 

etc.


----------



## fluke

"I tell you this is a late MODEL...deceased....bang! Bang! bang! ...poly want a model?!"

"Its not dead...its pining"

"Its DEAD!"

"Its sleeping"

.......and now for something completely differnt.


----------



## Ravenauthor

and so we sing...

"I'm not a sucker and that's okay,
They weren't getting my money anyway..."

/with apologies to Mr. Palin.


----------



## beck

RK wrote : " i believe we're waiting on Nov. 26 "
at which time we will be asked to set our clocks ahead 1 month to Dec. 26th .
watching the new A corp get going is about as much fun as waiting for primer to dry . 
well , actually waiting for primer to dry is a LOT more fun .  
hb


----------



## SteveR

beck said:


> well , actually waiting for primer to dry is a LOT more fun.


... because there's actually a payoff at the end.


----------



## MadCap Romanian

...and it smells better!


----------



## frankenstyrene

MadCap Romanian said:


> ...and it smells better!


Thought we weren't sposed to talk about farts anymore. Oops, did it again. Sorry, I have a cold.


----------



## flyingfrets

If there were really any truth in advertising, A Corp. would rename themselves A-*HOLE.*

Which incidentally would account for those rogue smells we keep getting whiffs of...


----------



## farmersamm

Just to show ya there's one born every day. I plunked down 39.95 for a "pre sell Autocar A642 tracror". Due in late September. 

What month is this? Now I know that all I do every day is go out and count new cowpies on the ground, but I kin darn sure tell that the days are gettin' shorter. Gotta be a ways past late Sept. Ya think??

Meanwhile_______________ The dude that took my money probably stashed it in Chase Manhattan Bank as a down payment on a slick little condo down in Boco Raatan. Complete with beach babes in thongs.

He's doin' them, and I'm doin' a lot of waitin'.

Cheat me once, shame on you. Cheat me twice, shame on me. Get my drift?


----------



## Captain_April

THRUSH Central said:


> Patience, my pretties....November 26th will carry the tale we tell...Don't wear yourselves out now. Patience. The smell of blood is not as good as actually seeing it in the water. Thrush.


This THRUSH person is clearly in league with this A-corp, he's the regular guy who draws in the suckers who think that he is one of them. Aurora is gone and these a-holes are just jerking people around, only a real dope would send these guys money, you might as well just throw your money out the window.


----------



## Seaview

It ain't November 27th yet, so they still have a month to prove us wrong.


----------



## Steve CultTVman Iverson

Reality check guys. Plastic A, or whatever they are calling themselves, will likely have at least a kit or two out at some point. Whether it is anything you want or not is another story.

Release dates for any company tend to change as often as the weather. Just ask Polar Lights, Moebius, Monarch, or even myself. Release dates are targets, not promises.

Measure the integrity of a company by their customer service and the quality of their product. Consider their level of communication. Are their goals practical and realistic? What's their track record?

While many of us have our doubts about these guys and have had bad experiences with them in the past, I think all the nasty rhetoric and name calling is reflecting poorly upon "us" as a group of hobbyists. How are "we" going to look when they actually get a kit out?

The best thing we can do is tell our friends to stick with known, reputable shops, sellers, websites, and distributors. 

These guys will succeed or fail on their own. They certainly have enough rope to hang themselves.

Steve


----------



## Arronax

Steve CultTVman Iverson said:


> Release dates for any company tend to change as often as the weather. Just ask Polar Lights, Moebius, Monarch, or even myself. Release dates are targets, not promises.


I sort of wish these guys would succeed. There's some interesting product on the future releases "list." There's also a lot stuff you just can't imagine there'd be a market for.

But, Steve, it's not just the moving release dates that are frustrating. Even Polar Lights, Moebius, Monarch or you usually have a little more to show for upcoming releases than a washed out old box cover with a new logo slapped on.

But you're right, we should just wait and see what happens.

Jim


----------



## Jimmy B

In the meantime its not like we don't have anything to look forward to in the near future thanks to a few proven entreprenuers


----------



## frankenstyrene

Steve CultTVman Iverson said:


> These guys will succeed or fail on their own. They certainly have enough rope to hang themselves.
> 
> Steve


You're being generous to assume they even own rope.


----------



## flyingfrets

Steve CultTVman Iverson said:


> Measure the integrity of a company by their customer service and the quality of their product. Consider their level of communication. Are their goals practical and realistic? What's their track record?
> Steve


That's fair enough Steve and the way gentlemen do business as witnessed by the huge strides made by Moebius and Monarch.

Their kits have only been our dreams for years so they've got the product end together. Some product being delivered and LOTS of good stuff in the prototyping or development stages as seen in the photos in the Hobby Expo thread.

Communication? How many pages does the original Moebius thread run now (with Frank chiming in as time permits)? *These* are the guys I'll hand my money to...and believe what they tell us until there's a reason *not* to.

Aurora...A Corp...whatever they call themselves this week is another matter. Don't misunderstand me - I'd LOVE to see them deliver on the hype. And I'd gladly admit I was wrong if I had some of their promised kits in hand. But you brought up the issues of track record & communication. We all know their track record as LAPCO and their *lack* of communication doesn't bode well for A Corp. They were conspicuous by their absence at the Hobby Expo. If you're that close to real sellable product, wouldn't you want retailers & fans to know about it? Frank's not yet ready to sell me a Space Pod or a Chariot, but I know they're coming thanks to Moebius' appearance at the show y'know what I mean?

I think we poke fun at Aurora/Lapco/A Corp because in this day and age, their marketing tactics seem somewhat laughable by comparision with the efforts of Moebius & Monarch.

It's difficult to look at them as a company who means business instead of a couple of guys trying to relive the glory days and are trading on the name & memories of the original Aurora. Almost sad...

I'm willing to hedge my bet though. If they deliver on HALF of what they're promising, I'll buy one of EVERYTHING in their catalog as a gesture of good faith and apologize on this forum for my derisive comments.

All I'm saying is "Prove me wrong Aurora..."


----------



## John P

frankenstyrene said:


> You're being generous to assume they even own rope.


 :lol:


----------



## frankenstyrene

No real company - no matter how small its niche market, and no matter how small of a take they expect to get from that market - keeps itself so fully under wraps as A-Corp has so far. It's counterproductive on every possible level. If any one of us wanted to release a kit, we'd have hoo-hahed it from here to the other side of the 'Net to get the word out. They haven't. 

What's more, the scant exposure they have given themselves has been inept, which I (an admittedly suspicious, cynical and generally untrusting person) take as evidence supporting my original guess: 

A-Corp is not primarily a real attempt to rip anyone off, tho they may well do so if given the chance. 

No, it seems more like a cheap, semi-elaborate prank, designed by people who are just enough "in the know" regarding our corner of the hobby that just throwing out a few key words now and then on a shabby website is enough to chum the waters into foam. It's self-sustaining. And it's not even low maintenance prank for them. Their website is their biggest investment (that we know of) and it means nothing; it's just a collection of badly done pages. 

Thanks to boards like this one (and posters like me!) it's a NO maintenance prank, as far as A-Corrupt is concerned. We do their work for them by talking about it.

That's my hypothesis, anyway. If I'd set out to prank the modeling community, I'd be quite pleased with how this has turned out. Had I set out to actually make money...not so much. 

But once again, I'd LOVE to be proved wrong on this.


----------



## Scheisseler

frankenstyrene said:


> A-Corp is not primarily a real attempt to rip anyone off, tho they may well do so if given the chance.
> 
> No, it seems more like a cheap, semi-elaborate prank, designed by people who are just enough "in the know" regarding our corner of the hobby that just throwing out a few key words now and then on a shabby website is enough to chum the waters into foam. It's self-sustaining. And it's not even low maintenance prank for them. Their website is their biggest investment (that we know of) and it means nothing; it's just a collection of badly done pages.


I've been thinking that the last time these guys made any noise was back when PL was enjoying some success with its own "Aurora revival," and I don't think it's a coincidence that they've awakened again now that Moebius and Monarch are on the scene. And while I don't think they are ever going to actually produce anything, I don't think they're exactly pranking, either. I think they may simply be trying to draw attention to whatever assets they do possess in the hopes that some other, larger company -- or maybe even Moebius or Monarch themselves -- will consider those assets worth acquiring. They kind of seem to be going out of their way to list all of the properties and marks that they (claim to) have rights to on their site, and I suspect this may be for the sake of alerting anyone else who wishes to repop this stuff that they're going to have to go through "A Corp" first.

Personally, I only see two kits on their site that I'd ever care to build, and one of those is the Forgotten Prisoner, to which their claim is a little dubious (in fact, I expect to hear any day that Monarch will be re-issuing the FP, though I'm probably inferring too much from the Chicago pics). With the line-up they have, whether or not they may or may not have the molds in pristine condition, I doubt they're going to raise too much more interest in their product this time around than they did last time.


----------



## beck

welcome aboard Scheisseler :wave: . hey man , PL had re released the FP before they sold so you could most likely nab one off the Bay for cheaper ( and sooner ) than A Corpse ' s
hb


----------



## frankenstyrene

Scheisseler said:


> I think they may simply be trying to draw attention to whatever assets they do possess


 Hello! 

Has a trustworthy party independently verified that they actually have assets, though? 

Just asking because what little they _have_ done smells, and you can pick the odor. It's either "we're not very serious about this" or "we're legit, but inexplicably inept." Red flags either way. Hence the prank theory...to me it fits the facts (so far) the best. 

I'll gladly discard it if one of our known quantities (any reputable person herebouts) says _"Guys, A-Corp contacted me, I met them in person, they showed me what they have. We've signed the deal on the following kits: _______. Start saving your pennies cuz here's my ETA on the release of kits we won't see any other way."_ Until then, I call it an internet snipe hunt...don't get caught sittin' in the woods with a sack at midnight while A-Corp is home in bed, giggling themselves to sleep.


----------



## phrankenstign

frankenstyrene said:


> I'll gladly discard it if one of our known quantities (any reputable person herebouts) says _"Guys, A-Corp contacted me, I met them in person, they showed me what they have. We've signed the deal on the following kits: _______. Start saving your pennies cuz here's my ETA on the release of kits we won't see any other way."_


Didn't mrdean play a similar role to this with The Lost Aurora Plastics Corporation/LAPCO?


----------



## frankenstyrene

Wasn't here in those days so I can't say...who was he?

The ones I meant are producers like Moebius or whoever - someone who has proved he can make kits happen - or trusted sales guys who we all buy from time to time, who know for a fact that A-Corp kits are inbound. IOW, guys with established reputations who won't stake their reps on promises from those with no rep (or bad rep, as the case may be).

Short of that, I expect nothing from this.


----------



## beck

a while back it was mentioned that Geometric might be working with them on something ( i think maybe the Castle Vampire ?) . 
so while i do believe we'll eventually see models from A Corp it looks like they'll be resin versions in the style of co's like RetroResin . and with similar pricing . 
back when they were LAPCO they did finally release a couple of resin pieces and went away soon afterwards . 
hb


----------



## Scheisseler

frankenstyrene said:


> Has a trustworthy party independently verified that they actually have assets, though?


Well -- I guess what I'm postulating is that they're just laying in wait for someone to announce plans to reissue the Dutch Boy, or the Scotch Lassie, or the Nose-Nipper, or some such, and then they'll pop up and say "hey, that's _ours"_ -- as though there's a chance of any interest being shown in that stuff anyway.

They also claim trademarks to "The Monster Classics Collection" and "Prehistoric Scenes" on their home page, even though they don't actually offer any Classic Monster or Prehistoric Scenes kits. It's probably worth noting that none of the reissues of these kits that have come from R-M or PL have ever been referred to with either of those names -- so maybe these guys actually _do_ own those trademarks, or maybe they just realize they're in a great position to pretend that they do.

As for the Prisoner, which for argument's sake I am saying is not a "Classic Monster," I don't think you'd see that on the A Corp site if Monarch hadn't announced the Ghost. IMO, they're just trying to lay claim wherever they can. I'm willing to bet that if Monarch had announced the Warlock, A Corp would be advertising the Witch -- even though the original tools no longer exist.

(BTW, Beck, I have an original Glow FP, and both a Cinemodels and PL reissue -- and I'd probably still buy another one if someone else released it. :hat: )

FWIW, I am definitely in the "I'd love to see it" crowd, but I think we have a far better chance of seeing it from someone else.

Also, thanks for the welcome, all. I've been lurking for a while now, but back in the day I used to be "Dr. Praetorius" (with an A); went to the Clubhouse for a couple years or so, where I eventually incurred the wrath of every Garage Kit producer that ever lived  , and then slowly meandered back to these parts after they took their BB private (as though this hobby isn't small enough). Looking forward to great stuff from Moebius and Monarch.


----------



## fluke

Welly welly welly....Welcome back Doc! :wave: 

I seems like I'm stuck in this Resin/Vacu hell but all the really cool and larger subjects have only been available in those formats...'untill now'

I also look foward to having fun with styrene again!


----------



## CaptFrank

When Polar Lights was sold to RC2 for $24 million dollars,
it must have given these "A Corpse" guys an idea:
Pretend to own the company and claim to be producing
kits. This will attract the attention of a big corporation who
will then buy their "company" for millions! :thumbsup: 


:drunk:


----------



## Dave Metzner

I don't know where we got a 24 million dollar figure for RC-2's purchase of Polar Lights......
First of all I don't know the exact number that was paid, I'm pretty sure that 24 is substantially high......The exact number is not important
Second the IMPORTANT TRUTH is that RC-2 bought Playing Mantis - a company that consisted of four divisions..........Polar Lights was only one of the divisions of the company and it was the smallest division.......
RC-2 bought Playing Mantis because they wanted Johnny Lightning, not because they cared about Polar Lights.....or Slot Cars .......or action figures

The first thing RC-2 did was to kill Polar Lights.
The second thing they did was to sell the Slot Car and Action figure segments of Playing Mantis right back to Tom Lowe......Those divisions are the core of Tom's new company, Round 2 Corp! 

Now the only thing left of Playing Mantis is Johnny Lightning!

If anyone thinks that they'll sell A-Corp for a big pay day, I have a real nice bridge for sale too!

Dave


----------



## frankenstyrene

What kind of bridge?


----------



## spe130

RC2 should sell Polar Lights, along with the AMT/Ertl assets, to Tom's new company. They don't seem interested in plastic kits...might as well put those assets where they might do some good.


----------



## Seaview

I may be (and hope I'm not) wrong about this, but it occurs to me that maybe everybody who wanted to pick up a PL Aurora re-pop already did so while they were still blessing our hobby shop shelves, and now have their closets full of unbuilt PL kits (like me).
VIVA MOEBIUS!


----------



## spe130

There are PL kits I'd still love to get - the Beatles and Three Stooges kits come to mind (I know they're not Aurora repops, but they're certainly in the spirit of Aurora figure kits).


----------



## John P

spe130 said:


> RC2 should sell Polar Lights, along with the AMT/Ertl assets, to Tom's new company. They don't seem interested in plastic kits...


 I don't think Tom's interested any more either.

Dave, I'm sure I read the 24 million figure in whatever news release I read at the time of the sale. It may even have been the same release where Tom said selling was "the best way to grow the company."


----------



## A Taylor

Playing Mantis was sold for around $17 Million.


----------



## Steve CultTVman Iverson

19.5 million if you include the 2.5 million in RC2 stock

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_hb3128/is_200407/ai_n7849582

Steve


----------



## Mark McGovern

*Looky what I found!*

I tried Googling "Round Twp Corp." courtesy of Mr. Metzner and found Tom Lowe's new web site: http://www.round2corp.com/ Fun stuff but, sadly, no model kits. Looks like John's right about Tom's interest in producing new kits.

Mark McG.


----------



## Steve CultTVman Iverson

I had a conversation with Tom Lowe at iHobbyExpo and he is very much interested in producing model kits again. We just have to wait and see what he puts together. 

Steve


----------



## Zorro

Mark McGovern said:


> I tried Googling "Round Twp Corp." courtesy of Mr. Metzner and found Tom Lowe's new web site: http://www.round2corp.com/ Fun stuff but, sadly, no model kits. Looks like John's right about Tom's interest in producing new kits.
> 
> Mark McG.


Tom Lowe makes candles?


----------



## Ravenauthor

Mark McGovern said:


> I tried Googling "Round Twp Corp." courtesy of Mr. Metzner and found Tom Lowe's new web site: http://www.round2corp.com/ Fun stuff but, sadly, no model kits. Looks like John's right about Tom's interest in producing new kits.
> 
> Mark McG.


But if you go to his autoworldslotcars.com site, two model kits have been announced. Both of them cars, though.


----------



## Mark McGovern

Zorro said:


> Tom Lowe makes candles?


Eh?

Mark McG.


----------



## Zorro

Mark McGovern said:


> Eh?
> 
> Mark McG.


The Round 2 site promotes candles along with slot cars and "holiday classics".


----------



## Steve244

Sure. slot cars, some candles. Little wine. Perfect date.


----------



## John P

Steve CultTVman Iverson said:


> I had a conversation with Tom Lowe at iHobbyExpo and he is very much interested in producing model kits again. We just have to wait and see what he puts together.
> 
> Steve


 That's good news!

I'd also read he had a deal with RC2 that he wouldn't produce any product that's in direct competition with them. I'm guessing that was aimed specifically at die cast. Now that they're out of the plastic kit business, maybe that opens a door.


----------



## MonsterModelMan

John P said:


> That's good news!
> 
> I'd also read he had a deal with RC2 that he wouldn't produce any product that's in direct competition with them. I'm guessing that was aimed specifically at die cast. Now that they're out of the plastic kit business, maybe that opens a door.


There may also have been a stipulation in his contract that he wouldn't produce anything competitive for a specific period of time...I would think for some amount of years. He would have never signed anything that would have stated indefinately.


----------



## Dave Hussey

So far the stuff I've seen from Moebius is better than I could have ever expected from Tom Lowe. And back in the day, I believe that Mr. Lowe had access to much better financing and the like.

So, in terms of Mr. Lowe geting back into the model business, thanks, but no thanks. I'm more than satisfied with what Moebius and Monarch are doing. ANd besides, the niche market for this type of product is only so big. I dunno if it could sustain three styrene companies making sci fi and monster subjects. there is a potential disaster in there I fear....

Huzz


----------



## the Dabbler

Steve244 said:


> Sure. slot cars, some candles. Little wine. Perfect date.


Hey, maybe it'll be candles of monster figures ?? nya ha ha ...


----------



## The Batman

Dave Hussey said:


> So far the stuff I've seen from Moebius is better than I could have ever expected from Tom Lowe. And back in the day, I believe that Mr. Lowe had access to much better financing and the like.
> 
> So, in terms of Mr. Lowe geting back into the model business, thanks, but no thanks. I'm more than satisfied with what Moebius and Monarch are doing. ANd besides, the niche market for this type of product is only so big. I dunno if it could sustain three styrene companies making sci fi and monster subjects. there is a potential disaster in there I fear....
> 
> Huzz


Unless... a _partnership_ could be formed....

- GJS


----------



## Dave Hussey

In view of Mr. Lowe's history of building up a business only to sell it for profit, I think any potential partners would be very wary of that.

And I still have yet to see any plausible explanation as to why all of Playing Mantis was sold to RC2. Certainly it would have been possible to exclude the Polar Lights division from that sale. But oddly enough, that was not done.

Huzz


----------



## beck

i feel pretty sure that if TL gets back into producing models it'll be cars . 
Like Huzz , i'm happy with what Moebius and Monarch are doing . 
hb


----------



## Mark McGovern

Zorro said:


> The Round 2 site promotes candles along with slot cars and "holiday classics".


Oh, ah. Didn't get that far in searching the site.


John P said:


> I'd also read he had a deal with RC2 that he wouldn't produce any product that's in direct competition with them.


 MMM thought such an agreement would last for some time; seems to me I read it had a two year expiration date. I'm sure Dave Metzner can set us straight on that point.

As with this new Aurora company, we'll just have to possess ourselves in patience and wait to see what Round 2 may or may not offer. All the while, we can be building those stacks of old Polar Lights kits...

Mark McG.


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## spe130

John P said:


> That's good news!
> 
> I'd also read he had a deal with RC2 that he wouldn't produce any product that's in direct competition with them. I'm guessing that was aimed specifically at die cast. Now that they're out of the plastic kit business, maybe that opens a door.


From what I read about the deal, I don't think that non-compete clause had a very long shelf life. If they're out of the plastic kit business anyway, it might well be considered a nullity anyway. And if they sold off that business to Mr. Lowe, such a sale would almost contain the elimination of that clause as one of its terms.

So, if you're listening RC2 - stick a cheap price tag on the combination of Polar Lights and the AMT/Ertl plastic kit division and send it on its merry way. Might as well make a few bucks from those assets that you don't have any intention of using.


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## John P

I'm sure the hobby could support three kitmakers if they're making different kits. After all, we have quite a bit more than three makers of plastic airplane kits out there, duplicating each others' subjects and still kicking.


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## Dave Hussey

I think the market for airplane kits is larger than the market for sci fi and monster kits and thus can support multiple manufacturers. But I don't think the sci fi monster market is big enough for that.

Even in my little backwater town, I see magazines like Military Modeler (I think that's the name) on book store shelves. Fine Scale Modeler frequently features military and aviation topics, but relatively few sci fi topics. And I've never seen a dedicated sci fi / monster modeling magazine in a main stream book store. To me, that is an indicator of the size of the market for both of those topics.

Cheers,

Huzz


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## Steve CultTVman Iverson

The hobby can support quit a few quality models. Right now Moebius, Monarch, Lindberg, Revel/Monogram, and even Glencoe produce kits that interest the sci-fi, monster, and fantasy markets. AMT was in that mix up until recently. You also have Fine Molds, Revell Germany as well as numerous garage kit makers adding to that mix. 

Not every kit appeals to everyone. There is quite a diverse number of interests. Some folks by only monsters, others are into dinosaurs. Still others buy only spaceships. 

In the past, there have been oversaturation problems when companies flooded the market with kits that people really didn't care for. Polar Lights did this seveal years ago and only now are those over produced Beatles, Dick Tracy and Monster Rods clearling out. AMT over produced and flooded the market with too many Star Wars and Star Trek kits. Remember all those Encoutner at Dagobah kits and Starship Encounters kits? When the store shelves become cluttered with kits that people don't want, then shops don't buy the new stuff. Manufacturers think people don't want the kits and quit making them. 

Hopefully, common sense will prevail and good kits will be produced and the hobby/genre/niche will flourish. But too many mediocre kits will stagnate and hurt the hobby. I have a lot of confidence in Moebius. Monarch seems to be doing well. Some of Lindberg's kits are questionable, but they seem to be marketing them well. Revell is so-so. I have to question them releasing the German Star Wars kits. Some are good, others not so hot, and AMT just saturated the hobby with Star Wars models.

Time will tell. 

Steve


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## Roland

Huzz, 

There's enough interest in sci fi and monster modelling out there to support commercialization of the hobby. I have found Amazing Figure Modeller at both Barnes and Noble and Borders book stores. I have also found other model figure magazines in my local hobby shops. This includes all the various towns I have lived in in the past 10 years like Wichita, KS, Lockport, IL, and Holland, MI. Some hobby shops just chose not to do figure models or don't know much about them. But, you're correct that there are fewer sci fi and monster modellers than military, airplanes, and cars. But, part of the reason for this is limited availability, not limited demand. 

A few years ago, I asked my local hobby shop that is usually filled with airplanes, cars, and military kits, if they were going to get the Polar Lights Captain America in stock. They hadn't heard of it, but they ordered it for me. When I came to pick up the model, the clerk happily told me that he ordered three extra Captain America kits with mine that all sold very quickly.

Roland


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## Duck Fink

Good point, Steve. I was quite surprised to see Revel reissue a mere 3000 kits for the Deal's Wheels baron recently. I dunno who got there hands on the other 2988 kits but I am glad I got mine!!! I was not aware that revell was interested in ANYTHING low volume like that. Glad to see they are somewhat onboard with producing some kits to the smaller masses and not just large volume for EVERYTHING they make. I just placed an order last night for the Deal's Wheels 57 Chevy that popped up at the auction place. It was a long time comin'! They definately did not saturate the market with these things this time and I hope they plan on doing a steady line of reissues of ALL of the Deals Wheels kits. Moebius and Monarch seem to be tackling their audience the same way. Limited number of kits keep 'em comin' back for more!!!


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## Dave Hussey

I'm willing to bet that in five years time, there will not be three of Moebius, Monarch and New-Aurora still around. 

I expect Moebius will still be around and flourishing. Dunno about the others.

Huzz


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## Scheisseler

The Batman said:


> Unless... a _partnership_ could be formed....


I'd like to see someone strike a deal to keep some of PL's kits in existence -- especially those monster kits that they brought back to us (Bride, Witch, Hunchback). Moebius would probably be the most appropriate fit since they've already given us Jekyll/Hyde. But apart from that I don't think we need a third company producing this kind of material.


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## SUNGOD

Steve CultTVman Iverson said:


> The hobby can support quit a few quality models. Right now Moebius, Monarch, Lindberg, Revel/Monogram, and even Glencoe produce kits that interest the sci-fi, monster, and fantasy markets. AMT was in that mix up until recently. You also have Fine Molds, Revell Germany as well as numerous garage kit makers adding to that mix.
> 
> Not every kit appeals to everyone. There is quite a diverse number of interests. Some folks by only monsters, others are into dinosaurs. Still others buy only spaceships.
> 
> In the past, there have been oversaturation problems when companies flooded the market with kits that people really didn't care for. Polar Lights did this seveal years ago and only now are those over produced Beatles, Dick Tracy and Monster Rods clearling out. AMT over produced and flooded the market with too many Star Wars and Star Trek kits. Remember all those Encoutner at Dagobah kits and Starship Encounters kits? When the store shelves become cluttered with kits that people don't want, then shops don't buy the new stuff. Manufacturers think people don't want the kits and quit making them.
> 
> Hopefully, common sense will prevail and good kits will be produced and the hobby/genre/niche will flourish. But too many mediocre kits will stagnate and hurt the hobby. I have a lot of confidence in Moebius. Monarch seems to be doing well. Some of Lindberg's kits are questionable, but they seem to be marketing them well. Revell is so-so. I have to question them releasing the German Star Wars kits. Some are good, others not so hot, and AMT just saturated the hobby with Star Wars models.
> 
> Time will tell.
> 
> Steve



I think older modellers (who I'd say are the main backbone of the hobby now as opposed to kids) are looking for quality models of desirable subjects and so far Moebius and Monarch seem to be offering that. Ok, I haven't seen them in the flesh yet but Monarchs Nosferatu and G.O.C.Mare look like great sculpts and Moebius sound as if they're doing the same thing with their Invisible Man and Seaview etc. Some of them such as the Invisible Man aren't normally things I would buy but because what they're doing with the model sounds really interesting I'm very tempted to buy it.

And Fine Molds seem to prove that quality and accuracy sells even if the price is higher. I might be wrong but Polar Lights to me had some questionable subjects as models such as The Beatles and Kiss kits which are virtually being given away on Ebay


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## BadRonald

What happened to the molds that P.L. developed? Are they in safe storage somewhere?


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## farmersamm

Not being into sci-fi, or monsters, I am not sure I have a right to comment on this thread. So I hope I don't make any folks angry.

I'm afraid the whole thing is dependant on the market. Just about like everything else.

Every time I go over to Perkins to pick up a load of feed, I somehow justify driving the extra 7 miles to Stillwater to check out Hobby Lobby.

Each time I go in there, all I see in the model section are middle aged men. No young people. I'm one of the middle aged guys too. Hell, I can't read the fine print on the boxes without my glasses anymore!

I suppose that people buy their luxuries with their disposable income. The question is: What, out there, is competing for folks disposable income these days?

People don't think twice about paying out serious bucks for cell phone minutes, or high speed internet. In my opinion, that's money for nothing. What do you have sitting on the shelf, or in your pantry, for the money you spent? As a society, we are wasting money on intangible things. Plus our fascination with this "stuff" takes all of our creative energy, and time to do creative things. Not good.

I don't know the mean (not average) age of the folks on this site, but I'd be willing to bet that the bulk of the people are up in years.

I shop for truck models on Ebay, and it isn't unusual to see a Pete COE go for $75. But--- Ebay isn't a large market in terms of numbers of mass produced items sold by a manufacturer. Could it be that as a target market, we who are interested in a non-electronic silicon based hobby are a dying breed.

Doesn't look good.

Well, I had my say. Go ahead and throw a few bricks if ya want.


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## Steve244

yup. what he said.

Except everyone here is old but me.


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## xsavoie

Let's not forget how grateful we felt when Polar Lights came to be.Sure Moebius and Monarch are more perfectionists and this is great.Not only do they prefect Aurora kits,but also come up with entirely new kits.Polar Lights,their predecessor,also did not limit itself to producing Aurora repops,but issued great new kits as well.I do also believe that their is always room for new kit companies.Of course they can also issue specialized kits like Sci-Fi,monster,etc. kits,but also other kits like the sophisticated figures, resin dinosaurs and other prehistoric kits now produced by the small resin kit manufacturers,and produce them in styrene.But like Polar Lights,these same manufacturers should not hesitate to produce main stream kits like cars,airplanes,military kits as well that could bring bigger profits.This way they could also produce lesser profit bringers like the ones we are interested in purchasing.Polar Lights did so and became a very valuable asset,later purchased by RC for millions,unfortunately.


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## TAY666

BadRonald said:


> What happened to the molds that P.L. developed? Are they in safe storage somewhere?


You would have to ask RC2 that question.
The bought the company and all it's assets.
They own the molds, and that means the molds are where ever they want them to be.


As far as the discussion of the average age of the model buyer.
Yeah, we are older. But so what?
That just means we have more disposable income to pay a little more for a better model.
Most of us in our 30s and 40s have a good 10-20 years of model buying ahead of us.
I don't think any company is worrying about their profitability that far out.
Most are concerned with the next quarter to the next year.

The future of the hobby (at least in our nich) is smaller production runs, of better quality kits.
They will cost a little more, but most will be willing to pay for them.
I think the key will be the number of releases in any given year.
Too many new kits, and a bunch will end up sitting on the shelves.
PL learned that lesson the hard way.
Most styrene buyers only have so much they are willing to spend on kits.
When there are more choices than that will allow, they will only buy what interests them the most.
Heep the number of new kits low, and each one will get good buzz and sales. Too many, and both buzz, and sales will be diluted.


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## farmersamm

You're probably right.

The new re-issue of the Mack DM-600 is selling for about 45 to 50 bucks. Bought a few more than one. Gonna be fun to fabricate some bodies for it. Dump, Tanker, Gin Pole Rig, Etc.

The more I think about it you're absolutely on the money. There is a niche market, and it probably pays. Kinda like beef. People always gotta eat!!

Added on edit: I don't know what the production run of the Mack was, but I heard it was limited. So you do have a very valid point. I'm not quite with the program. As usual.


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## CaptFrank

*What happened to the PL molds?*

I melted them into scrap and built a toaster out of them! :tongue:


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## the Dabbler

Steve244 said:


> yup. what he said.
> 
> Except everyone here is old but me.


Looks like I'm the hitch in the gitalong here, driving the "mean" age way up !!!


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## John P

farmersamm said:


> Each time I go in there, all I see in the model section are middle aged men. No young people. I'm one of the middle aged guys too. Hell, I can't read the fine print on the boxes without my glasses anymore!


 I hear the model club I used to belong too is getting smaller because the members are dying off of old age. :freak:

As to where the PL molds are - they're in China. Whatever manufacturer in China they contracted with certainly has the molds in storage there.


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## Lee Staton

Many of you guys know I'm 50 and a lifelong modeler. I survived Aurora going under the first time, AMT being sold (to Lesney in England, then to Ertl, then to RC2), and many other company changes over the years. So I've taken the long view and not gone "gloom and doom" over such issues as PL's demise. Things always cycle.

In fact, I have great admiration for Tom Lowe. His company gave us great models at great prices. I never thought I would have the experience again of walking into a hobby shop and seeing a shelf full of Aurora models--but PL did it! They did good work and we benefitted. Then the man was smart and sold for a tidy profit. It's just one person's opinion, but I just can't get into demonizing him for doing it. I sure would have sold if I'd been lucky enough to be in that position. I'm jealous!

Far from gloomy, we now have cool kits coming from Monarch, Moebius, FineMolds, and even Revell Germany. (I don't count Aurora back in, as I'm a skeptic who will be happy if I'm wrong, but think that's unlikely.) Even if these companies only do a few kits, we'll certainly be better off for it. If Tom Lowe gets back into the ring for Round 2, more power to him.

My X-acto and Tenax stand at the ready. Bring it on!

Lee


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## Lee Staton

One more thing...

Isn't it cool that plastic models use those expensive steel molds? Thanks to how durable they are, kits from as far back as the 1950's can still be rereleased (with effort) today. And it's the existence of those molds that has been responsible for so many kits making reappearances. Retooling aside, of course. But that's largely why we we should "follow the molds." They have a tendency to keep coming back like zombies...


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## motorcitytoyz

If you go to his new website http://www.autoworldslotcars.com , you will see a place for model kits. 

Currently, Round 2 is working with Retro Hobby and reissuing two different vintage AMT model kits. Both are in 1:25 scale and are molded in white, clear and chrome with vinyl tires and full color original water-slide decal sheet reproductions. They are due in next week - November 7, 2007.

Stingaree - Item # 38664
Infini-T - Item # 38631
I will offer them on my site as well....starting on Monday, November 5, 2007.

I hope this info has helped and know that Tom Lowe is planning more kits for the future. I normally post on the slot car forums but will be sure to post here as well. Any questions you might have, please email me and I will try to get the answers, if I don't know.


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## Duck Fink

Sweet!


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## THRUSH Central

*Update - 11/4/07*

Greetings! I have just returned from a stint in the Middle East and upon reading the thread I am assuming that no news or kits from "A" company have been released. I wanted to let ya'll know that I have heard nothing as well. My order is in and my check is ready if and when it happens. And no, "captain" I am only "in league" with my country not any company. Model kits are fun but they are not THAT important. THRUSH.


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## spe130

SUNGOD said:


> I might be wrong but Polar Lights to me had some questionable subjects as models such as The Beatles and Kiss kits which are virtually being given away on Ebay


The Beatles kits are being "given" away on eBay? Please show me which eBay you're looking at.


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## frankenstyrene

Have you guys heard about this new Aurora company?


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## wolfman66

frankenstyrene said:


> Have you guys heard about this new Aurora company?


The only thing new about this Aurora compnay is that their full of it and havent come out with anything yet.


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