# 4600's Vs 4200's ???



## NCFRC (Aug 4, 2005)

I have never raced a 4600 pack or graphed one out vs. a very good 4200 ,,

Just how much better are they ?? The overall labels I've seen are no better Ir's or average voltage than a good 4200 .

I'm just saying ,, it wasn't too hard to get your hands on 1.3-1.4 IR 4200's with 460 + runtime.

Whats the race track feedback ????


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## latemodel100 (Feb 19, 2003)

well kinda hard to figure that now that 4200s are pretty much, I say pretty much gone. only a few matchers still have anyleft and not too many more out there to get from Importers either.......... EnerG4600 and IB4600s are out there now..........

So on track performance will be either hurt or better for all............


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## ta_man (Apr 10, 2005)

I have two 4 cell 4600 EP packs and they are basically 4200s in new shrink.


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## needthat22 (Jun 21, 2005)

then y they cost more shrink?


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## Al Spina Fan (Oct 29, 2004)

ta_man said:


> I have two 4 cell 4600 EP packs and they are basically 4200s in new shrink.


Agreed, Hopefully they hold their "Good" for a few more runs than the 4200's


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## NCFRC (Aug 4, 2005)

ta_man said:


> I have two 4 cell 4600 EP packs and they are basically 4200s in new shrink.


 
I kind of suspected that as you don't hear any ranting and raving from the racers,
all you see are marketing adds from the importers.

Like I said , We chose not to run our pan car , since we have other vehicles,
and I sold some Pro-match Ep-4200's that had better numbers that what I've seen on any 4600's ??????

WHY DON'T THEY JUST MARKET THEM TRUTHFULLY AND EITHER SAY THEY'LL ACCEPT 4600 MAH OF CHG " WHICH MEANS NOTHING " OR SAY UP TO 4600 AS IF YOU READ THE SPEC SHEETS ON SOME CELLS , ITS SAYS TYPICAL
MAH OF 4450-4500.  

WITH TODAYS ECONOMY , THEY CAN'T BE PULLING THIS CRAP IF THEY WANT ANYBODY TO PARTICIPATE


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## NCFRC (Aug 4, 2005)

I just got a dirrect quote from a reputable matcher.

"Yeah ,,,, they have a little more run time and Hmm , slightly more voltage"

Sounds like I'm going to rush out and get some ???????????????  


Ir's are no better if not slightly higher,,, that kind of makes sense , if you discharge slightly slower your mah increases .  

I'm not trying to just make this a negative thread , it just anoyes me when 
an example like this is marketing at its worst.


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## Jonny B (Jul 18, 2005)

In the end, some of us REALLY need some batts bad...and would love to have some EP4200's but can't find any to be had, or anyone coming off of theirs to make way for 46's...so whats a guy to do? Watched EP46's run and wasn't very impressed in 17.5 the driver ran more laps before with IB42's and his car handled much better this week than previous weeks...


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## omnis85 (Sep 26, 2005)

ta_man said:


> I have two 4 cell 4600 EP packs and they are basically 4200s in new shrink.


YUP!!!,


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## paceracer (Jan 23, 2006)

omnis85 said:


> YUP!!!,


 Did you try the pack on the track. You will see a big difference from 4200's. The only problem is these packs are to fast. Unless you can make a 3.5 car turn you might have to gear down a few teeth! Either that or put an anchor on your car. If anything these pack will require a wing! :woohoo:


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## NCFRC (Aug 4, 2005)

Jonny B said:


> In the end, some of us REALLY need some batts bad...and would love to have some EP4200's but can't find any to be had, or anyone coming off of theirs to make way for 46's...so whats a guy to do? Watched EP46's run and wasn't very impressed in 17.5 the driver ran more laps before with IB42's and his car handled much better this week than previous weeks...


 
Rob Murdock had some decent Ep-4200 's


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## NCFRC (Aug 4, 2005)

ta_man said:


> I have two 4 cell 4600 EP packs and they are basically 4200s in new shrink.


 
THATS ALL THEY ARE !!!!!!!!!

JUST LIKE THE 4200 LABEL CELL ... IF YOU HAVE CONNECTIONS TO GET MID 
2.4 VOLT CELLS , THEN OF COURSE YOUR GOING TO LOVE THEM AND WHAT ELSE DO YOU TELL YOUR SPONSOR ...... THEIR GREAT ! SEND ME MORE


FOR THE AVERAGE JOE ITS JUST COSTING MORE MONEY THIS WINTER


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## NCFRC (Aug 4, 2005)

Has anyone found a single matcher that has found a true 10% increase in runtime and a better IR and average voltage in a 4600 cell than a good 4200 ?????

Seems like Team Orion is one of the most upstanding with marketing an 
honest 4200 cell , everybody else is just playing a label game, or maybe 
this is a GRAY area when it comes to marketing a product.


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## Tommygun43 (Nov 17, 2002)

I have a few EP 4200's and just picked up a EP 4600. Like you guys said...the voltage curve and IR's are identical. The 4600 just has more runtime. This is great in my opinion...4600's won't be any advantage in 13.5 or slower, no reason to buy more new batteries.

I really like the EP cells, 4 months old and still cycle like when they were new. Zero loss in runtime, voltage, same IR's. :thumbsup:


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## NCFRC (Aug 4, 2005)

I agree 100% with the quality of the EP cells , their great.

The major problem is as a Track manager with a 4200 battery rule ,

it puts us in a tough position , how do you say OK to 4600's and then try 

to explain that they are really no better,,,,,,, the average racer isn't

going to believe that one.

We're going to try and stay with 42's as long as we can to save our 

racers some money,,,, and then we'll probably still keep them in the entry

level classes.

IT'S A MESS , BUT WE'LL TRY AND MAKE THE BEST OF IT.

I got an e-mail from a matcher this afternoon that his 4200's were cycling out
better than his 46's and another supplier I patronize quite often has added 
back to his battery list , both the IB-4200 and the Ep-4500 , which I'm not sure who really makes it, so it's showing that racer feedback is making some
rethink the situation.


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## CDW35 (Jan 17, 2006)

i have 3 sets of EP4200's and 2 sets of EP4600's and I believe my EP4200's are better then my 4600's


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## Tommygun43 (Nov 17, 2002)

why are they better? on track or on a discharger? just curious. thanks.


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## CDW35 (Jan 17, 2006)

Tommygun43 said:


> why are they better? on track or on a discharger? just curious. thanks.


 There seems to be a difference on the track! or Maybe its just me!LOL . I would have to agree with NCFRC, I dont know if people should buy EP4600's if they own EP4200's. The only reason I bought 4600's was because thats what MOST matchers had and I needed fresh packs for the Champs.

I can't wait til' I get ahold of some ener-g cells and try them out. but I am really happy with the durablity of the EP cell.


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## NCFRC (Aug 4, 2005)

The Ep-4200 cell is still available , it's just that from racer demand most matchers have chose not to import any.

I was trying to keep this thread neutral , but for those that have to run

4200's at their track , Pro-Match has 42's with 1.24 + and Murdock racing

has 42's @ 1.235 + , and Orions will be available shortly with their new 

SHO 4200 cell ,,,,,,,So they are available and for the entry level classes

there's plenty of unmatched EP , IB , ect 4200's out there . :thumbsup: 

AS ONE MATCHER SAID '' I'VE NEVER SEEN A CELL WITH LOWER NUMBERS RUN STRONGER ON THE TRACK''

I do believe in the physcological aspect , it's a proven fact that 98% of
people believe their car runs better after washing it .


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## NCFRC (Aug 4, 2005)

[
I can't wait til' I get ahold of some ener-g cells and try them out. but I am really happy with the durablity of the EP cell.[/QUOTE]



Has anyone tryed these ??


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## mr_meat68 (Jan 30, 2005)

i just got some earlier this week. after cycling them all the numbers were pretty close but the runtime was much higher. i didn't try them on the track yet.


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## NCFRC (Aug 4, 2005)

Maybe some 8 min. mod. guys would benefit ???

But as you and others have said , The graph for 240 sec and 300 sec are pretty much identical .


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## mr_meat68 (Jan 30, 2005)

lol, i guess we'll see in due time like everything else. i'm curious what the IB cells are gonna do.


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## NCFRC (Aug 4, 2005)

Local Club Tracks ----Do your racers a favor financially and keep your battery

rules at 4200 max untill the end of this winters season.

Some may balk , but most will appreciate it, especially the young family racers who are the future of this sport.

Next fall will be a totally different battery story anyway,,,,,, who knows what

will happen by then.


The top matchers have gone back to offering 4200's also , so you can get them.


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## Alan Behler (Apr 19, 2003)

if you have some of the later batches of IB 4200 cells you will need to buy batteries anyway so why wait to make them legal. i ran my new 4600's in practice last week and my good 4200 were pretty much as fast


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## NCFRC (Aug 4, 2005)

Every track and all parts of the country are different when it comes to
the racers view on spending money.

We're in an area where most racers will buy their equipment to run a entire
winter season and then maybe buy new batterys next year.

The average racer wants the latest and greatest '' to be disputed here "
but most can not afford it.

If everybody at your track has the means to buy batterys more often then
thats fine.

As you've all read ,,,, my point is ,,THEY ARE NO BETTER THAN WE'RE CURRENTLY RUNNING , ESPECIALLY IF YOU HAVE GOOD EP CELLS !!! :thumbsup: 

My beef isn't with any other racers or tracks ,, it's how these have been 
marketed , making a bigger # , they have to be better , that's hard to
explain to a fellow racer that they are not .

We're racing EP -4200 cells and am very happy with their performance.


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## Racin'Jason 8 (Nov 19, 2002)

Alan Behler said:


> if you have some of the later batches of IB 4200 cells you will need to buy batteries anyway so why wait to make them legal. i ran my new 4600's in practice last week and my good 4200 were pretty much as fast


B-I-N-G-O, Alan :thumbsup:

I don't see a big difference and my good 4200's have MORE runtime. What I like about my JBR EP 4600's is that they are fresh, have very low IR's, and I don't have to reach for my safety glasses when putting them in my cars.


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## NCFRC (Aug 4, 2005)

I don't own any 4600's but my good EP-4200's have 465 runtime @ 35 A

How many 46's of any brand can top that  

If my math is correct , then a 10% gain with 4600's in runtime should easily be possible and these cells should all be over 500 sec's.


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## NCFRC (Aug 4, 2005)

NCFRC said:


> Local Club Tracks ----Do your racers a favor financially and keep your battery
> 
> rules at 4200 max untill the end of this winters season.
> 
> ...



Worth repeating :wave:


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## mr_meat68 (Jan 30, 2005)

NCFRC said:


> I don't own any 4600's but my good EP-4200's have 465 runtime @ 35 A
> 
> How many 46's of any brand can top that
> 
> If my math is correct , then a 10% gain with 4600's in runtime should easily be possible and these cells should all be over 500 sec's.


2 of my 4600 packs will smoke them runtime numbers (not that i really care). 600 seconds down to 4.00 volts @35 amps. the rest are around 570-580 seconds. enerG cells that is.


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## NCFRC (Aug 4, 2005)

mr_meat68 said:


> 2 of my 4600 packs will smoke them runtime numbers (not that i really care). 600 seconds down to 4.00 volts @35 amps. the rest are around 570-580 seconds. enerG cells that is.


 
Wow , I guess I am impressed runtime wise , but as your insinuating , it really doesn't matter how large the tank is.

I like your testing to 1.0 volt per cell , wish the industry std. would turn to that.

Are these Pro-Match ? If so , I wonder why their advertising much lower run times ??? Last I looked they were like 440-450 ?


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## pmsimkins (Nov 4, 2004)

NCFRC said:


> Wow , I guess I am impressed runtime wise ,


There are no 600s at 35A. I think he may have made a mistake.


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## brian0525 (Jan 17, 2005)

pmsimkins said:


> There are no 600s at 35A. I think he may have made a mistake.


maybe 25 amps?


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## pmsimkins (Nov 4, 2004)

That was my first thought, that'd be a bit under 4200 mAH, maybe a bit low. Time to send in the GFX?


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## mr_meat68 (Jan 30, 2005)

unless my charger is lying to me... to be exact it's discharging at 35.19 amps. they are hefty cells.


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## NCFRC (Aug 4, 2005)

mr_meat68 said:


> unless my charger is lying to me... to be exact it's discharging at 35.19 amps. they are hefty cells.



What's the Hefty label say for runtime ??

After thinking about it , I guess I'd check out your test equipment also.

Have you ever tryed soldering the main 12 gauge wires "GFX" dirrectly to
the battery and then clip the test leads to the batt bar ??

In theory , the main alligator clips should work OK , but as the guys at CE
would say , at 35 amps it puts a terrible load on the unit because its actually pulling alot harder than that to get a true 35 across their internal regulator.
Way to much loss across that type of connection and it can't be good for
the unit. 

I have a couple GFX's and love em but honestly they were probably designed to operate best at 30 amps , 35 max.

They had to totally reengineer the matcher to accurately have it go to 40 max.

Sorry I'm rambling , but my opinion is that 35 amps for MATCHING is great , but us as racers are just killing our packs if we do a complete pack cycle at that rate. These cells were tested individually with
much better cooling and after assembly thats a diff story.

After a run , and a 4-5 min rest , then if you want to discharge at 35 A to 1 volt per cell , your probably ok,,,,,,but still 30 Amps is sufficient.

I havn't even had coffee yet , HAPPY NEW YEAR


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## NCFRC (Aug 4, 2005)

Has anyone run any of the Team Orion SHO - 4200 cells .?

Advertised to give EP a run for their money


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## NCFRC (Aug 4, 2005)

Stormer Racing has recieved these and are ready to go.

Someone must have some experience with them.

I guess their the hot ticket across the pond


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## Alan Behler (Apr 19, 2003)

NCFRC said:


> Stormer Racing has recieved these and are ready to go.
> 
> Someone must have some experience with them.
> 
> I guess their the hot ticket across the pond


why would we buy new 4200's just to say well we didnt go to the new 4600 rule to save people money
lets face most of the guys who bought IB 4200 in the past are either at risk that their cells will blow up or they just dont run for crap......
so its a new year bring on the new battery esp. since most of them run like the 4200 so the kid who still has 4200's that are safe and perform doesnt have to buy any batteries........


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## jbm38 (Jun 1, 2002)

EP4200 vs. EP4600 just off my FUTABA....

The 4600 had 25secs more 5v time or to be exact the 4200s' held 5v for 160 secs and the 4600 held 5v for 185 secs.


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## NCFRC (Aug 4, 2005)

Alan Behler said:


> why would we buy new 4200's just to say well we didnt go to the new 4600 rule to save people money
> lets face most of the guys who bought IB 4200 in the past are either at risk that their cells will blow up or they just dont run for crap......
> so its a new year bring on the new battery esp. since most of them run like the 4200 so the kid who still has 4200's that are safe and perform doesnt have to buy any batteries........


Like I said earlier , every area of the country is different and everyone is entitled to their opinion,,,,,,, No one is right or wrong here ,,,,this is just
a discussion if the 46's are really needed at this time .

I'm sure on the PRO level their a must , but local club ?????


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## NCFRC (Aug 4, 2005)

Remember the guy who commented about how important the chassis is ???

Thats why decent 4200's are still very competitive.

Honestly , this IB thing , even though we do run EP's , has been blown way out of proportion .
Some matchers had terrible luck , others, like we've run in the past had cells that ran great , maybe not a long time, but great / no explosions .

If they keep advertising only the ones that let go , then of course their going to sell new/improved cells.

The sad part is Racer's will buy them before they pay their other bills.


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## Alan Behler (Apr 19, 2003)

if racers buy then b4 other bills than shame on them
i know of 1 track who doesnt even want you to build batteries at his place because they 3 blow up there...... not while building though

and i would be the first to tell anyone to work on their cars

i took real good care of 4200's and out of 14 packs i have 1 left


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## NCFRC (Aug 4, 2005)

I agree with your thinking ,,,,, but don't you think some " a small percentage"

was from somebody laying a soldering on that cell way too long .

I'm no expert , but you see an awfull lot of hack jobs when it comes to soldering properly.

A quick tip for those wondering------scuff the ends of the cells with 400-600 sand paper , clean with electronic cleaner or alcohol , with a Q-tip put a very small amount of paste flux on end of cell " no acid " , use a very hot iron with
at least a 1/4" wide tip " I hate round here" and put a light layer of solder on the cell ends, with the flux your talking about 2 sec's. Take your bars and lightly cover both bottom ends , using a jig , place the bar on top of your two cells and use some needle nose pliers or equiv. to push down lightly on the center of the bar , Touch each end of the bar with your hot Iron and again within a couple sec's that bar should drop tightly to the cell , do the same on the other end and it's that simple. Make sure your solder looks nice and shiney and this is where I like electronic cleaner , because you spray a small amount on a rag and wipe the sides of your assembled pack and it dissolves any excess flux residue ,looks professional ,and yes , use flux core solder .


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## Don M (Sep 4, 2007)

Hey NCFRC shouldn't you be working  




NCFRC said:


> I agree with your thinking ,,,,, but don't you think some " a small percentage"
> 
> was from somebody laying a soldering on that cell way too long .
> 
> ...


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## NCFRC (Aug 4, 2005)

Work ? RC is alot more fun ! See you at the track :thumbsup:


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## NCFRC (Aug 4, 2005)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_meat68
unless my charger is lying to me... to be exact it's discharging at 35.19 amps. they are hefty cells. 




What's the Hefty label say for runtime ??

Back to this real quick, how many sec's were they matched at ?
The 35.19 throws up a red flag in my book ,,, if your GFX was working 
properly it would lock on to 35.00 amps and hold it.

Check your power supply as this is one of the things a bad one will effect
It has so much noise "electical" that it messes with the discharge regulator circuit , but never touchs the charge functions.


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## NCFRC (Aug 4, 2005)

Well I hit my goal , over 1200 people viewed this thread.

Hopefully it was helpfull to some and interesting to others.

The Battery companies will do what they want and we as

racers just have roll with the flow , good or bad. :wave:


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## mr_meat68 (Jan 30, 2005)

i'm talking with CE through e-mail as we speak. see if my charger needs some help.


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## CDW35 (Jan 17, 2006)

NCFRC said:


> Well I hit my goal , over 1200 people viewed this thread.
> 
> Hopefully it was helpfull to some and interesting to others.
> 
> ...


I would have to agree with ya NCFRC, this has been a very "productive" thread. A lot of threads turn into a argument especially battery threads and eveyone usually starts to complain about which is better and so on and so forth. This thread has had no heated battles or anything....

Anywho,
Has anybody ran the Ener-G Cell on the track yet?


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## pmsimkins (Nov 4, 2004)

CDW35 said:


> Has anybody ran the Ener-G Cell on the track yet?


Same cell as the EP just different shrink wrap.


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## CDW35 (Jan 17, 2006)

I have read a lot about the ener-g cell and Its not the same cell as the EP.......


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## latemodel100 (Feb 19, 2003)

Yeah there are some boys on the Team DCM that are running them now......... Having good luck with them their first weekend out........... Gained some on times and definately picked up a spot or two................


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## pmsimkins (Nov 4, 2004)

CDW35 said:


> I have read a lot about the ener-g cell and Its not the same cell as the EP.......


I've read that on the Promatch website too, but the reality is that it is the same cell.


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## NCFRC (Aug 4, 2005)

CDW35 said:


> I would have to agree with ya NCFRC, this has been a very "productive" thread. A lot of threads turn into a argument especially battery threads and eveyone usually starts to complain about which is better and so on and so forth. This thread has had no heated battles or anything....
> 
> Anywho,
> Has anybody ran the Ener-G Cell on the track yet?


 
Thanks for the positive comments , Pro-Match and SMC claim this cell was 
made exclusively for them , but I've seen it for sale from other distributors also,,,,,,,,don't really know .

The trinity ones were just different shrink wrap , I think they were IB's .

Who makes the EP-4500 ? Is that East Power ?

But as CDW 35 said " LETS NOT LET THIS GET INTO WHICH IS BETTER OR NOT AS SO MUCH OF IT IS PERSONAL PREFERENCE "

A good 4200 cell will hold its own against most anything in a 4 minute race.

A good true 4600 cell would only have an advantage in a 5 to 8 minute race.


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## NCFRC (Aug 4, 2005)

mr_meat68 said:


> i'm talking with CE through e-mail as we speak. see if my charger needs some help.



I have alot of respect for CE equipment but when I ran across the power supply issue they commented " we've never seen or heard of one doing that"

Come on guys , we all make mistakes and I guaranty that a running change has been made to better filter out the reg. circuit when discharging.

I've personnally experienced it with 2 diff GFX's and when put on a different
power supply or a clean 12 volts from a car battery ,,,, No problem's what so ever.

Maybe talk to them about having all the upgrades done and if you need it , the lipo option.


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## pmsimkins (Nov 4, 2004)

E-Power 4500 = EP4600 = EnerG 4600

New 4200s = New EP4600s in terms of performance

IBs may prove to be superior or they may not.

Trinity is exclusive importer of IBs and they distribute to matchers
SMC distributes the EnerG shrink wrapped cell to matchers


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## JBRCells (Mar 27, 2006)

Jim you are correct the current battery situation is a mess. 

The reason for the quick approval on the Ener-G cell was the fact that it was the same cell that I had previously approved it was just in a different shrink wrap. 

The IB 4600 is a new cell that just released in the last few days. I'm not saying it will never be approved but given IB's lack of quality control over the last year I'm in no hurry to do so. 

Honestly if the majority of the racers did not have so many IB4200's that they were still using I would be more than happy to eliminate them from competition as well. They have a problem, they need to fix it. The Cleveland cell was supposed to be the cure but they are staring to find out it's not any better. 

Bottom line NO IB4600's this weekend. This is from the BRL thread.... They approved the Ener-G cell quick because it is the same cell they approved a few weeks ago which is the ep 4600... Doesn't matter either of the cells look really good on my matchers... No Meltdowns to date after 10 cases....I like the results.... If IB can bring us a stable cell like the 3800's were I wouldn't hesitate to match them again... But for the time being the EP 4600's are just fine... Justin


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## brian0525 (Jan 17, 2005)

pmsimkins said:


> Same cell as the EP just different shrink wrap.


Couple people have said this and I would love to hear the real story not just "he said she said". Anyone really know or is this just rumor?

What is this then?









Not saying anyone is wrong just would like to know for sure cause I treat the EP cells quite a bit different and if they are the same it would be great to know for sure.


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## brian0525 (Jan 17, 2005)

And if E-Power 4500 is the same as EP then what is this?

E-Power Battery

EP - East Power/ Enriched Powe 

How are they the same?


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## charger01 (Oct 17, 2006)

Can anyone tell me about the Elite 4500 cells from cheapbatterypacks.com? If they are just rebadged from another manufacturer, who's cells are they?


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## pmsimkins (Nov 4, 2004)

Can't say what they are for sure, but they aren't all that cheap.

Go here if you want a low priced assembled battery pack that is still going to perform well for you.
http://www.lefthander-rc.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=23&products_id=1316


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## charger01 (Oct 17, 2006)

Thank you PM, I will be ordering soon. Still would like to know who makes these cells, though.


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## NCFRC (Aug 4, 2005)

CDW35 said:


> I would have to agree with ya NCFRC, this has been a very "productive" thread. A lot of threads turn into a argument especially battery threads and eveyone usually starts to complain about which is better and so on and so forth. This thread has had no heated battles or anything....
> 
> Anywho,
> Has anybody ran the Ener-G Cell on the track yet?



Has anyone tested or ran the NEW Team Orion SHO 4200's ???

Stormer's the only one that I've seen in stock.


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## NCFRC (Aug 4, 2005)

Ok , I broke down and bought a New 6 cell EP-4600 pack.

D I S A P O I N T E D !!!!!!!!!!!

Quick summary , the run time was longer, the Ir was terrible , and the pack
voltage at 60 sec's was 7.50 , where my EP-4200's are 7.50+ at 240 sec's.

Not very impressed !!!!!

I called the matcher and they commented that I must have done something
to them, if I did it was the same with the 42's .

Maybe not all 4600's are this bad , but this one pack is.


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## NCFRC (Aug 4, 2005)

OK , I'm open minded and did get some good tips from another distributor about how these cells have slightly different characteristics than what we
have previously run.

Maybe thats why you see so many 4600's being sold as Like New ?

We'll all see with time ,,,,,,I no longer own any and we'll see what next 

season brings.


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## ghuber (Mar 1, 2004)

EG4600s are rebranded high voltage EP4200s. They, like the EP4600s are good cells. The IB4600s are also turning out to be great cells; no more reliability issues, or exploding cells.  Good runtime, volts and IR. That's what we're selling and we've got nothing but good feedback over the past few weeks. Check em out www.surgeworldwide.com...


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## JBRCells (Mar 27, 2006)

NCFRC said:


> OK , I'm open minded and did get some good tips from another distributor about how these cells have slightly different characteristics than what we
> have previously run.
> 
> Maybe thats why you see so many 4600's being sold as Like New ?
> ...


EP 4600's Ran well @ Maximus this Sunday :thumbsup: Was hoping you would come down and run with us maybe next time? :wave:


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