# 1/350 Enterprise - help with saucer walls?



## swsote (Jan 26, 2013)

HobbyTalk newbie here, go easy on me :wave:

So, long story short, I have spent the last month trying to get the saucer walls on my 1/350 to not have gaps. Unfortunately, the _fine folks_ at Polar Lights split the saucer walls into separate sections, rather than just making it one molded ring (which would've made it look better IMHO), thus, you either putty these gaps or your model looks like crap. I actually had it packed up and ready to go in the trash a couple of days ago, but was talked into giving it one more shot. I would really appreciate any tips or suggestions you guys have to get through this.

I started off with Tamaiya putty, but that didn't seem to work too well, so then I tried the green stuff from Squadron, and that worked a little better, but I was still left with a disappointing result.

It was then suggested that I try Bondo glazing and spot putty, so I gave that a try and got a slightly better result between the saucer and the walls, but am still having issues on the joints between the wall pieces.

At this point, I've puttied and sanded the *#$^ing thing so much that I've lost a lot of the etched rings.

*Please* tell me someone out there has had the same issue and can help . I've wanted to do this model for years, and it has taken a turn for the worst!


EDIT: Thanks for the help guys, but unfortunately the model is unrecoverable.


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## BARRYZ28 (Mar 3, 2007)

That's why I didn't build mine.


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## MartinHatfield (Apr 11, 2004)

You sound as if you are dealing with the 1/350 refit? I am aware of that issue, but haven't gotten to that headache yet. 

You just might want to be a little more succinct about which kit you are dealing with, since there are now 3 1/350 scale Enterprise kits out there; The NX-01, TOS Enterprise and the refit.


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## falcondesigns (Oct 30, 2002)

I'm assuming your talking about the Refit.So,first,take a breath.....we've all had one thing or another that has been difficult or impossible to overcome.The best putties that I have used are automotive polyester finishing putty.A automotive paint supply house is where you'll find these.Everclear is the one of choice,but since I'm in a place where there is no consistency,I'm using USC Elite Glaze.about $15.00-$20.00 for a container with catalyst.A small dot of putty,a dot of hardner,mix and spread,dries in about 20 minutes,ready to sand.Work in thin layers,not all at once.Hope this helps....


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## swsote (Jan 26, 2013)

MartinHatfield said:


> You just might want to be a little more succinct about which kit you are dealing with, since there are now 3 1/350 scale Enterprise kits out there; The NX-01, TOS Enterprise and the refit.


Yep, sorry, it's the refit.

EDIT: Thanks for the help guys, but unfortunately as of a few minutes ago, the model is unrecoverable.


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## irishtrek (Sep 17, 2005)

Uh, exactly what do you mean by 'unrecoverable'?? Did you toss it after all or is there another reason why you say that??
As for your problem with the putty it takes paitience to get it right and sometimes you have to do it over and over.
So next time if there is raised detailing like on the saucer wall use masking tape to protect the raised lines and when you go to sand the dried putty first use say a 220 grit sand paper followed by say a 500 grit and so on. The higher the numbers on sand paper the smoother the final result will be, but useing a 1500 grit will not do a whole lot in removing any excess putty.
Hope that helps!!!


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## swsote (Jan 26, 2013)

irishtrek said:


> Uh, exactly what do you mean by 'unrecoverable'??


Two of the saucer walls snapped in half (through the attached windows) when I was sanding my 11th attempt at getting the putty to work.



irishtrek said:


> did you toss it after allor is there another reason why you say that??


I might try to sell the remainder of the model for scrap or spare. I definitely have to sell the TrekModeler kit - no way is that going in the trash! 




irishtrek said:


> as for your problem with the putty it takes paitience to get ir right and sometimes you have to do it over and over.




This was really unfortunate ending after anticipating the build of this model for several years. I am pretty soured on Polar Lights models.


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## irishtrek (Sep 17, 2005)

Which of the 2 walls snapped and got any pics???? There are some very talented folks here on Hobytalk and some one just may come up with an idea on how to fix your problem, in fact what I was thinking is some narro strips of plastic in order to mend the wall pieces so don't give up so easely, ok???


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## ClubTepes (Jul 31, 2002)

Got any pics of your job so far?

The saucer can be tricky, 
I taped the whole thing together first.

I mean, taped it good, making sure it was solid and no parts would shift.

Then, I took a knife and slit the tape along the line where the saucer top meets the side walls and removed the top.

All that tape holds the side walls in place and I glued from the inside.
It came out great.
Very minimal seams.

Then as for what you use for putty can also be important.

The right putty for the right job.

I used to be HORRIBLE with putty and wrecked a few models in my day so I feel your pain.

For the refit side walls, I'd suggest an epoxy putty like Aves.

Its a two part putty that you mix 50/50.
You have about a 1 hour good working time.
You can apply it with tooth picks and have a small cup of rubbing alcohol to wet the tooth picks and smooth it out.
I always cut off one end of a tooth pick at a 45 degree angle making a flat chisel end and leave the other pointy. It makes a great tool that won't mar the plastic.
You really shouldn't have to do any sanding if you do it this way.


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## swsote (Jan 26, 2013)

ClubTepes said:


> The saucer can be tricky,
> I taped the whole thing together first.
> 
> I mean, taped it good, making sure it was solid and no parts would shift.
> ...


This is a really cool idea! If nothing else, I want to leave this thread up for posterity so others can see your method. I know it would've helped me.


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## Trublood (Aug 3, 2011)

Post some pics of the damage. It still might be salvageable.

Alex


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## swsote (Jan 26, 2013)

Okay, so now that I am past some arbitrary limit, I can post photos.

This was my Squadron green putty attempt - the fill in the lines was from the Tamiya attempt, which was really bad and I had to clean up with nail polish remover. As you can see, after several coats, I was still getting cracking and gaps.
SQUADRON 1

SQUADRON 2


It was suggested by another modeler to try using a red Bondo pinhole/glaze. I did have better results with that between the saucer walls and the saucer itself, but still some cracking (towards the left):

BONDO 1

It also did nothing to fix the cracking problem between the saucer walls:

BONDO 2

BONDO 3

And my failed attempt a re-scribing when I lost a bunch of the rings here:

BONDO 4
*
And finally, as requested, proof that this is actually unfixable:*

DEAD MODEL


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## Kremin (Sep 26, 2012)

Pity to see it went that way, but depending on how far into construction you are you might still be able to sell the bits you have left for spares


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## ClubTepes (Jul 31, 2002)

Well, ok that last picture looks pretty bad.

But I wouldn't group all R2 models into the same catagory.

All models are different and each has their own unique engineering issues.

The 1/350 TOS E is pretty well engineered (If I do say so myself  ).


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## irishtrek (Sep 17, 2005)

Have you contacted R2 and ask about getting replacement pieces???? Too bad those wall can't be rebuilt.
And as for the way the 350 refit was engineered Thomas Sasser is the one who designed that kit.


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## jgoldsack (Apr 26, 2004)

That is exactly why I didn't even attempt to remove the seams. I simply glued the pieces together tightly, held in place, so that there was barely a hairline seam between. I didn't feel I could do a good enough job to make the seam go away, and so rather than try and ruin the model, I left it as it was, and light blocked the inside so that it would not be a light leak.

From a distance you can;t tell anyway, and people who come by my house and see the model don't know the difference anyway.


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## Fozzie (May 25, 2009)

jgoldsack said:


> That is exactly why I didn't even attempt to remove the seams. I simply glued the pieces together tightly, held in place, so that there was barely a hairline seam between. I didn't feel I could do a good enough job to make the seam go away, and so rather than try and ruin the model, I left it as it was, and light blocked the inside so that it would not be a light leak.
> 
> From a distance you can;t tell anyway, and people who come by my house and see the model don't know the difference anyway.


I took the same approach. I also find that the decals make the seams a bit less noticeable as well.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

A + B epoxy putty (Magic-Sculp available from The Compleat Sculptor http://www.sculpt.com/ ). It's dries harder than the plastic but is worth the extra effort. It also adheres to plastic unlike Aves.

Sand off the rest of the saucer lines and use decals instead to represent them.


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## swsote (Jan 26, 2013)

In listening to you guys talk about the seams yours had, I'm beginning to wonder if my kit didn't come out exactly right - one of them was nearly wide enough to wedge a dime into. 

I did try to make mine "hairline" but a couple of them were not possible to do so, and these were the ones I was struggling with.


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## robn1 (Nov 17, 2012)

I suggested the sensor decals as well, I still think that's the best and easiest option.

Sorry about your latest mishap, but it may be recoverable. Look at it this way: a model is plastic parts that you glue together. If some parts break, you just have a few more to glue together. Try to fix the damage, at this point you have nothing to lose.

If you can't salvage the parts, try to get replacements. Round 2 may be able to provide them. You could also try to find someone kitbashing a 1/350 Stargazer, he wouldn't be using those parts and could give them to you. Hey it's worth a shot.

As for the engineering on the kit, there's really no other way to do it. If the saucer edge was made as a one piece ring with the open windows, they couldn't have removed it from the mold. The AMT kit had a similar design with the window sections as separate parts. I think Polar Lights did a much better job.


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## irishtrek (Sep 17, 2005)

Your model maybe salvagable after all.
1st clean up the walls and remove the clear inserts of windows.
2nd fix and glue the walls back onto the saucer bottom with strips of styrene backing where the windows go.
3rd when all has been glued and puttied to your stisfaction put some elmers clear glue where the windows go.
Provided you want to give it a try, it's worth thinking over.


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## irishtrek (Sep 17, 2005)

Also, what type of glue did you use on the windows and what type of paint???


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## Zombie_61 (Apr 21, 2004)

swsote said:


> It was suggested by another modeler to try using a red Bondo pinhole/glaze. I did have better results with that between the saucer walls and the saucer itself, but still some cracking...


Assuming you're referring to Bondo Glazing and Spot Putty, the secret is to apply it in small quantities and/or thin layers and build it up slowly. It does shrink a bit as it cures, especially if you try to use too much at once, so that could have caused the cracking you experienced. For large gaps you have to putty and sand repeatedly until you achieve the desired surface.



PerfesserCoffee said:


> ...It also adheres to plastic unlike Aves...


Do you mean Aves Apoxie Sculpt? I've never had a problem using it on styrene. 



swsote said:


> In listening to you guys talk about the seams yours had, I'm beginning to wonder if my kit didn't come out exactly right - one of them was nearly wide enough to wedge a dime into.


In my experience that's not uncommon with a Polar Lights kit.


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## MattA (Jan 18, 2012)

The thing that a lot of people who are new to this hobby forget is... it's all just styrene!

I removed my grid lines, as it wasn't worth the hassle of trying to save them. The decals will do the job of showing the lines without the headache of trying to keep the ones that were there on the saucer to begin with. Just sand 'em off, fill the gaps, and move on.

There's more than one way to skin a kit!


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## clactonite (Dec 16, 2006)

There have been a number of good suggestions made. Try for replacement parts but you could probably re-attach the saucer walls, fill in the gaps AND the bands which would allow you to smooth the surface without fear of wiping out any details.
I'm pretty sure that there are decal replacements for these bands and then you would be back on track.
There is nothing worse than a problem that gets progressively more frustrating but take some deep breaths, step away from the workbench, have a couple fo beers and mull over your next plan of attack!


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## bigjimslade (Oct 9, 2005)

swsote said:


> HobbyTalk newbie here, go easy on me :wave:
> 
> So, long story short, I have spent the last month trying to get the saucer walls on my 1/350 to not have gaps. Unfortunately, the _fine folks_ at Polar Lights split the saucer walls into separate sections, rather than just making it one molded ring (which would've made it look better IMHO), thus, you either putty these gaps or your model looks like crap. I actually had it packed up and ready to go in the trash a couple of days ago, but was talked into giving it one more shot. I would really appreciate any tips or suggestions you guys have to get through this.
> 
> ...


The PL 1:350 is the worst engineered large sized kit I have ever seen. This bit of lunacy and the 4-piece engineering hull are prime examples.


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## ronwojnar (Mar 12, 2009)

Worse comes to worst, I think I have a couple of spares lying around. Let me know if you're interested, and I'll scrounge.


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## Garbaron (Apr 23, 2004)

MattA said:


> The thing that a lot of people who are new to this hobby forget is... it's all just styrene!
> 
> I removed my grid lines, as it wasn't worth the hassle of trying to save them. The decals will do the job of showing the lines without the headache of trying to keep the ones that were there on the saucer to begin with. Just sand 'em off, fill the gaps, and move on.
> 
> There's more than one way to skin a kit!


^--- listen to this!

It is the best way to do it. 
The decals will look prefect enough. 
Saves you a lot of headache.


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## Staffa (Jan 26, 2013)

The trick is don't use putty to fill the big gaps. It can be done, but putty shrinks and it would take a lot of thin coats of it. With big gaps between parts that should be a flat surface like this, it is much easier to use styrene. Sand the rear mounting tabs until the outer surface is even, then firmly glue. Take a small strip of evergreen or similar strip styrene. Best if it sticks out a bit, glue firmly and allow it to dry. then sand smooth and your golden, perhaps a skin of the Tamiya putty, but thats it. If you handy with a scriber you can connect the sensor rings, but decals are much simpeler. As an alternitive, us a styrene glue slurry to fill the gap. Get a hot model glue such as TEN-EX, put little chunks of scrap sprue from the kit your working on and let the glue melt it down. Keep adding sprue until you get a gooey paste, then stuff it into the gap. after the glue evaporates, sand smooth and the gap is gone. this kit can be fixed, after all it's only styrene:wave:


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## robn1 (Nov 17, 2012)

clactonite said:


> ...have a couple fo beers and mull over your next plan of attack!


Good advice :thumbsup: I suggest St. Pauli Girl.


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## swsote (Jan 26, 2013)

Guys,

You've been a great help. I got in touch with Round 2 and will be getting replacement parts!


In the meantime, can I work on the secondary hull and nacelles with the TrekModeler lighting kit, or will I screw something up if I don't complete the saucer first?


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## irishtrek (Sep 17, 2005)

It realy doesn't matter if one does a saucer or secondary hull or even pylons first because after all they all go together in the end.


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## MattA (Jan 18, 2012)

swsote said:


> Guys,
> 
> You've been a great help. I got in touch with Round 2 and will be getting replacement parts!
> 
> ...


I actually started with my secondary hull. I waited on the saucer until dead last. When I built it, that seemed to be the way it went, as I started with the shuttle bay and arboretum. Once those were built, I built and wired the secondary hull around them, moved to the pylons, built the warp nacelles, and so on. 

It's great that you're getting replacement parts. Just remember, no model is perfect. Just do the best you can to the best of your ability and move on. There's no point in trying to make perfection as you'll just wind up disappointed. Fill the gaps and seams, sand them down, cry silently about the defects that you just can't quite remove, and move on. Once it's all together, you won't even notice the problems you had. And if you do and they bug you that much, use all the knowledge you gained building up this one to do another one! 

Good luck!


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## jgoldsack (Apr 26, 2004)

MattA said:


> I actually started with my secondary hull. I waited on the saucer until dead last. When I built it, that seemed to be the way it went, as I started with the shuttle bay and arboretum. Once those were built, I built and wired the secondary hull around them, moved to the pylons, built the warp nacelles, and so on.


I did it that way too when I made mine. Which made the most sense because the model stand was in the secondary hull, so start there!


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## swsote (Jan 26, 2013)

Starting a new build thread here: http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?p=4471228

Thanks for the help everyone! I did get replacement parts, and am starting over!


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