# Learning Curve in HO Racing



## neorules (Oct 20, 2006)

I wanted to bring this subject up as I have recently had some experiences with our soon to be released M-Tech Prototype Series Car.
It seems that typically in racing circles, we try to get new people started in our slot car racing hobby. Whatever class is being run, we will encourage the newcomers to "give it a try" and to "come and race with us". They typically struggle to make any laps without dumping 1 or more times. The struggle is really with making the car stay on, while driving at any near competitive speed. Various people get various results, but most are not anywhere near successful, even after a couple of hours of practice. What we are telling them in essence is this: Hey if you stick with it and practice 150-160 hours you might be competitive with us. This learning curve seems awfully steep in trying to attract new racers.
When I was doing some projects with LL a couple of years ago, I developed an updated M-car prototype which would have been by far the best handling and fastest Boxstock car out of the package for this hobby ever released, had they chosen to proceed. They decided against the project. I have decided to bring this car to market myself along with Norm Gardner AKA of Sluggos. Details and pictures will be in a seperate thread. What we have found though is this. With stock fronts and rears, this car handles so well, the emphasis is not on just staying in-- it is on racing and pushing the car hard to get an edge. The learning curve for new racers especially has been brought down to a couple of hours. My experience locally is that new racers love this car, they can turn laps and learn a track, rather than constanly putting the car on again and again. Others are not constantly putting the car on again and again. This is not the same as turning the voltage down, the cars stay fast. I am thinking this might be the direction we should look at going in trying to recruit new racers into our hobby. What do you guys think?


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## chopchange (Oct 25, 2010)

When will the thread about this new platform go live?


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## montegogt (Jan 16, 2006)

I think this is an excellent idea. Any idea what price range you will be in.


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## 1976Cordoba (Sep 20, 2000)

Is this a super-sucker / lightbender car? Does it have any slide at all?


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## smalltime (Jun 3, 2006)

1976Cordoba said:


> Is this a super-sucker / lightbender car? Does it have any slide at all?


The quick answers are........yes and very little.

That said, Neo is a champion of this entry level style platform. He loves the speed of the high downforce cars and wants to promote them. Please allow him the same decorum as any other type of chassis would get.

Some of us LIKE to bend light every now and then. :wave:


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## 1976Cordoba (Sep 20, 2000)

smalltime said:


> . . . Please allow him the same decorum as any other type of chassis would get . . . :wave:


I am - just wanted a little more info as the OP left things kind of vague. :wave:


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

> lightbender car


Really? Are you talking about a car that bends light by virtue of refraction or a car that bends light due to massive gravitational mass? A car made from water would satisfy the first type of light bending while one comparable in mass to the mass of the Sun would satisfy the second type type of light bending, assuming you had a sufficiently precise measuring device. Hmmm.


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

yes...


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## fsmra (Feb 28, 2005)

Hmmm Bending light or altering Earth's gravitational forces. I hope it succeeds but I believe it to be an uphill battle. I don't think its the lack of speed, warp speed, lack of downforce, downforce, or cars that require driving or cars that can be driven by monkeys that cause the virtual disinterest in newcomers. Although I do agree at newcomers frustration but its going to be extraordinarily difficult to compete with, World of Warcraft, XBOX Live (360), PS3, WII, online gaming in general not to mention sports, high definition programming, RC racing and members of the opposite sex. Other than that it should have great appeal.

Just my $.02


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

*On learning curves*

I think every track has a _learning_ curve...

some have two. It's usually proceeded by a long straight away.

I don't always bend light, but when I do...

I prefer TYCOs.

Stay thirsty my friends.... *XX*


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

Bob, I think this is an interesting concept but not necessarily from the perspective that you are promoting. What *is* intriguing to me is the potential arrival of another readily available racing platform for organized amateur and 'pro' racing. With the demise of the Tomy Super G+, Tomy Turbo and SRT, Life-Like M car, and Tyco 440X2 and the difficulty in getting affordable service parts for the Tomy Mega G there are fewer choices out there than there ever have been. Having another choice is always a good thing.

The "learning curve" thing, I'm not so convinced. Adding a rear guidepin to any chassis would lower the bar in that regard for just about any chassis. I think it's more a matter of "commitment and dedication." It's not like slot cars in the 1960s and 1970s were easier to drive than the ones we have today, especially at the entry level. Despite the difficulty level slot cars were wildly popular back then and neo magnets were probably only available for secret government projects. Gravity and rubber-on-plastic traction were all they had yet kids were clamoring to own their own race sets and organized slot car racing was bigger than bowling (well, maybe not in Milwaukee). 

So what do I mean by commitment and dedication? I'm not talking about the "till death do we part" variety. I'm talking about the fact that kids back then LOVED cars and were interested in automobile racing and the personalities around racing. Because their love of cars and racing was so strong they stuck with the hobby, learned how to drive those unwieldy, top heavy, and severely traction deficient TJets and Tycos and found ways to make them go just a little bit faster or run a little bit cooler. I'd say that a fair number of those kids went on to drive the real Mustangs, Camaros, and Chargers that they dreamt they were driving around their slot car track. Yeah, there were some kids who took to slot car racing as a hobby exclusive of their interest in cars, largely fueled by the competition and sporting challenge. Then the manufacturer sponsored drivers came in and whipped them - but that is all history at this point.

In any case, even in its heyday there were a fraction of hardcore, dedicated racers involved in club level and national level organized racing compared to the total population of people involved with slot car racing at a casual level. Today the pool of enthusiasts involved at the casual level is considerably smaller so the feeder path into organized racing is even smaller. The interest level in cars and racing has waned, especially in the US, and for the forms of racing that are still popular, racing on big banked ovals, there is no slot car racing set on the market that comes close to approximating the real high banked oval racing experience. We used to imagine and transform our casual slot car racing experience that we had in our basements into visions of the real thing. With computers and video games, there is no imagination required, it's as real as it gets short of the smell of burning rubber. 

In observing the trends of larger scales of slot car racing, I see a growing interest in the retro and vintage racing experience. Tone down the tech and pump up the supply of readily available parts that fit the retro classes and models. As much as I love TJets I believe that any class of racing that's dependent on an archeological based supply channel for the core platform and parts is doomed. It quickly becomes a treasure hunt for prime leftovers and the playing field gets tilted to the point of flipping over. 

If the readily available JL/AW chassis is deemed unacceptable by the omnipotent rules makers, and there is no alternative supply channel that is still in production, then one of two things must happen: 

1) replace the perfectionist rules makers and their rules with pragmatic rules makers who understand the availability concerns of the masses, or 

2) create a core chassis and motor that the omnipotent ones will approve. 

But that's just on the plastic side of the vintage equation...

Bring back the brass.


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## neorules (Oct 20, 2006)

AFX too-- Al Thurman is bringing back the brass. In about a month another car will be available in brass. I agree with much of what you have said as usual. The experience I have had with todays kids is that they have a short attention span and want a reset button. Having the feeling of being able to turn laps gives the initial feeling of "I can do this". Now when the race starts, it is competition that kicks in not the competence.


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## Boosted-Z71 (Nov 26, 2007)

Nice, I love brass cars, they truly are in a world of their own, Still owning some vintage Riggens & pan Tycos as well as a true scratch built that I cobbled together when I was in my early teens makes me so grateful that I held onto my cars as I aged. There is no amount of money that I would take for my cobbled up scratch build, (its probably worthless to anyone else) as it has been the inspiration for my son who is 13 now and trying to build his own version of a brass car. Maybe even an entry level kit car would be great. 

I will be watching this thread & thanks to the OP for sharing the info.

Boosted


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## Static Addict (Nov 2, 2010)

*My take on the hobby.....*

AfxToo....In my case you are dead on. I just got the AFX super International set. After using it for a few days I am already checking ebay for some magna traction and thunder jet cars. The mega g cars that came with the set are cool but unrealistic. I've always gone for the scale look and behavior in all my RC gear. The more realistic, the better I like it. There is certainly nothing realistic or "lifelike" about the way a heavily magnatized and overpwered car behaves. I understand people wanting to do mach 2 on their slot car set. I just prefer to do a nice cool 80. I remember when I was a kid in the early seventies, there was nothing sweeter than that perfecly executed wide slide and recovery, followed by that fish tail action and then haulin' it down to the next bend. Maybe it's a nostalgic thing or trying to recapture a little of the simpler times.... 

In my very humble opinion, nothing beats the realism of Rolls porsche sliding around a corner (http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=316507), or the craftsmanship and detail that has gone into NTxSlotcars movie scene layout (http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=256020). This really appeals to me! I'm not going to comment on the skill requirments of driving one or the other, (older or newer) style of cars, as I am very new at this and not qualified to do so. (Also, wouldn't want to stir up a hornets nest). 

I think the younger demographic, say 25 and under, of those just entering the hobby, probably want to go blurry fast in a formula 1. Personally, as a fat, middle aged married guy I want to fish tail in a buick and cruise by the baseball field or fishin' hole. 

These are my opinions. To each their own....whatever floats yer boat!!

Static


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## Tycoarm (Jan 7, 2006)

Static Addict said:


> AfxToo....In my case you are dead on. I just got the AFX super International set. After using it for a few days I am already checking ebay for some magna traction and thunder jet cars. The mega g cars that came with the set are cool but unrealistic. I've always gone for the scale look and behavior in all my RC gear. The more realistic, the better I like it. There is certainly nothing realistic or "lifelike" about the way a heavily magnatized and overpwered car behaves. I understand people wanting to do mach 2 on their slot car set. I just prefer to do a nice cool 80. I remember when I was a kid in the early seventies, there was nothing sweeter than that perfecly executed wide slide and recovery, followed by that fish tail action and then haulin' it down to the next bend. Maybe it's a nostalgic thing or trying to recapture a little of the simpler times....
> 
> In my very humble opinion, nothing beats the realism of Rolls porsche sliding around a corner (http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=316507), or the craftsmanship and detail that has gone into NTxSlotcars movie scene layout (http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=256020). This really appeals to me! I'm not going to comment on the skill requirments of driving one or the other, (older or newer) style of cars, as I am very new at this and not qualified to do so. (Also, wouldn't want to stir up a hornets nest).
> 
> ...


I too am on this side of the fence.


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## smokinHOs (May 30, 2006)

*To blur or not to blur...*

A couple things from a raised by Tyco guy and his 7 year old who truly knows no better than to race all slot cars...

We had a VERY successful M chassis class about 8 years ago. You can find them easily, and parts are not hard to find. The 'bay is loaded with them. Only problem I remember was the front axles popping out. NEO- I like the idea of your chassis, but I think I have been close to there and done some of that.. but my interest is peaked.

As for speed versus fun... Tjets and Afx are fun to race. Frustrating for the younger ones though. Without fail, ever kid who raced on my old Maxtrax wanted high speed downforce cars. Only the kids that were around slots (like my son) appreciated the slower stuff...

However- I believe that the biggest problem is NOT the kids or the cars or the tracks, it's the commitment of the parents to the hobby. If you provide a nice set-up on a table, kids will dig it. Throwing it on the floor in the basement or a kids bedroom doesn't cut it. If the parents don't provide some assistance with the cars and track the venture is doomed. 

Mag cars are a blast but you have to provide the right track for them. They need to stretch their legs. Twisting and turning a tjet on the spaghetti land raceway may be appealing to some, but a nice fast wide open layout works for both my fasest and slowest cars. Add a pinch of infield technical or various radius and life is good for me and my little guy.

Neo- love to hear more and appreciate your interest in promoting the hobby!

More info would be cool!

-marc and marcus


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## cwbam (Feb 8, 2010)

This hobby has many different areas.
1. Builders and tinkerers - just a little hobby.
2. Weekend Track builders get the set out, try a different layout have fun for a few days.
3. Incredible technical builders T jet to NEO what some guys can build amazes me.
4. (Train guys) OK guys with incredible layouts and models.
5. Race with friends and neighbors and have a beverage of your choice.
6. Racers : I just about fell over on the 150 hours , thats has to be real close to what I've got, and I just my best heat race ever 6 lane 2 minutes per lane and I finished 2nd.
(I was trying not to finish last) I love the competition. Not everybody is a racer or even
likes it (I'm not a modeler)

These are just a few of the groups in this crowd.


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## Static Addict (Nov 2, 2010)

You're so right cwbam! Many, many approaches to the same hobby. I think that is what keeps any hobby interesting and entertaining. Always something new and different to check out. Fun Fun Fun!


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## neorules (Oct 20, 2006)

Hey Marc and Marcus---- I put more info on getting the cars up here, but had it taken down for putting it up against the rules I guess. I did e-mail Hankster to hopefully resolve things and put up the info here properly as I like this board and the people here. I did have post on other slot related locations but hopefully you could check back here for more info later.


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## ParkRNDL (Mar 20, 2002)

Static Addict said:


> AfxToo....In my case you are dead on. I just got the AFX super International set. After using it for a few days I am already checking ebay for some magna traction and thunder jet cars. The mega g cars that came with the set are cool but unrealistic. I've always gone for the scale look and behavior in all my RC gear. The more realistic, the better I like it. There is certainly nothing realistic or "lifelike" about the way a heavily magnatized and overpwered car behaves. I understand people wanting to do mach 2 on their slot car set. I just prefer to do a nice cool 80. I remember when I was a kid in the early seventies, there was nothing sweeter than that perfecly executed wide slide and recovery, followed by that fish tail action and then haulin' it down to the next bend. Maybe it's a nostalgic thing or trying to recapture a little of the simpler times....


Yeah, me too. I grab up anything that I find at yard sales, flea markets, et cetera, but my favorites are pancake-motored stuff followed by CurveHuggers.



> In my very humble opinion, nothing beats the realism of Rolls porsche sliding around a corner (http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=316507), or the craftsmanship and detail that has gone into NTxSlotcars movie scene layout (http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=256020). This really appeals to me! I'm not going to comment on the skill requirments of driving one or the other, (older or newer) style of cars, as I am very new at this and not qualified to do so. (Also, wouldn't want to stir up a hornets nest).


Again, me too. Wish i had more time (and patience, I guess) for landscaping.



> I think the younger demographic, say 25 and under, of those just entering the hobby, probably want to go blurry fast in a formula 1. Personally, as a fat, middle aged married guy I want to fish tail in a buick and cruise by the baseball field or fishin' hole.


HAHAHAHAHAHA! Dude, have you been watching me in the basement? Baseball field and everything. Only difference is that it's the 7-11 and the Freezee Ice Cream stand we cruise by. And I want more Buicks.



> These are my opinions. To each their own....whatever floats yer boat!!
> 
> Static


Great post, to which I can't add much because it already says it all. :thumbsup:

--rick


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

I basically like all slot cars, slow, fast, small, and large. Plus, I like the building and tuning, modeling, painting, scenery building, and collecting aspect of the hobby. I also recognize that everyone puts in and takes out of the hobby at their own level of interest and in their own areas of interest. I think it is important to evangelize the hobby as a whole and not dissect it into areas that you like, or find most personally rewarding, at the expense of the areas that you don't like. 

There's something for everyone and the more inviting the hobby comes across as a whole the more likely newcomers will find their own favorite place in the hobby. When you purposefully limit the exposed cross section of the hobby to that area which you feel most attracted to and affiliated with, the chances of catching new enthusiasts goes down significantly. This hobby can cast a wide net and when you slice it and cut it down you're just not going to catch as many new fish. The reason why I enjoy the HobbyTalk forum so much is because it comes closer to capturing this philosophy than any slot car forum. But even within individual forums we have to promote and encourage the variety of flavors that exist within each of the areas, like collecting and racing and building.

Finally, I do want to mention one thing about fast magnet cars in particular. I love 'em and one of the reasons I love 'em is because they are so immersive and demanding of your single minded focus and attention. This aspect of them makes them extremely relaxing for me. Neo mentioned kids with short attention spans. Truth is, we all have extremely short attention spans but kids (and many adults) today have so many more demands on their attention than ever before. I'm not talking demands in the immediate sense, but ongoing and constant demands that exist on the mind at all times. The biggest challenge is to find way to clear the deck and get "into the zone" with what you are doing in the here and now, not what you should have done yesterday, or still have to do tomorrow. 

The best racers are those who can erase everything that demands their attention except what they are doing right now, man and machine, the competition at hand being the only thing that matters. The really good racers can get "into the zone" with TJets or Unlimiteds. For some of us, getting into it requires the inescapable focus demand of a really fast slot car. Call it PolyMod Therapy or whatever, but nothing is more relaxing and relieving than to reach that state where only one thing matters. To the casual observer they see a bunch of cars buzzing and moving at insane speeds and everything being a blur. To the racers, the ones who are fully relaxed in the zone, they see and hear everything very clearly and see the race unfolding in front of them in the same rate as a spectator of a box stock TJet race. I've tasted the zone a few times, well enough to understand that it exists, and I find my relaxation level going up with the speed of the car, and that's what keeps me intensely interest in magnet cars and slot car racing in general. But I still think TJets and real A/FX cars are totally cool too and run them all the time. 

The slot car hobby is a full smorgasbord of different flavors and opportunities. Dinner is served!


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## Static Addict (Nov 2, 2010)

Great points AfxToo! I sincerely agree with everything you said. :thumbsup: 

Static. (Kawartha Lakes Ontario Canada)


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## bemoore (Dec 23, 2008)

AfxToo said:


> Bring back the brass.


+100.

I think there are enough magnet cars out there already. If you want speed, there are cars for that. If you want nostalgia, there are cars for that. What I think is needed is something more like no-mag 1/32, and brass chassis cars are probably the closest thing there is in HO. The Mega-G made SOME strides in the right direction, but they decided to go further down the mag car route. A 1.7 chassis with weights instead of magnets, and a 12-15 ohm arm would have been MUCH more appealing to me.

A brass chassis car, with modern and vintage bodies... I'd buy some.


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## neorules (Oct 20, 2006)

Redline3000 wrote this on a different thread:



"Well guy's I was able to try out a couple of these cars at a Hopra race today after I had hooked up to thrash my S/S car Norm was calling my name to check out this new chassis,so after a few laps I parked my S/S and put on a Version I with a 6.8 stock red wire w/hardbody and started to reel off lap after lap.......pushing harder and deeper every lap without coming OFF! Times were right there with our S/S cars except a few of the top cars but these new chassis did not come off? Then Norm say's here try out this version with a green wire motor.........well that blew away the fastest lap we have ever turned with a S/S car and it had a HARDBODY! Temps on the Version I were 93 & 110 for the green wire,so I said to Norm how high off the rail are they? He set one on a test track and handed it to me and just as I thought this thing is higher up than a Mega G but is hooked up like a NEO car out of the box. If Lifelike would of built this car it would of put everything out on the market now to shame! Time will tell how the basement Racers take to it, I KNOW what my next IROC cars will be! "


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

Sounds like I'll have to order some of these. 

The chassis looks like a Rokar M5 and Life-Like T had a romantic weekend together.


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

I was half joking when I wrote "_neo magnets were probably only available for secret government projects_" but in fact this is for real and the use of neo magnets is current weapon systems is quite large. The same can be said for modern electric and hybrid vehicles. Why do we care and what does it mean to us? Well, it seems like the largest supplier of the raw material needed to make neo and other rare earth magnets is China, and they have started to strategically limit and tighten their export quantities and significantly raise prices on rare earth material. Bottom line is that you should expect to see the cost of these magnets and powder rise significantly as the demand increases and availability is further restricted. 

+1 more vote for Brass.


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## neorules (Oct 20, 2006)

Afxtoo wrote"The chassis looks like a Rokar M5 and Life-Like T had a romantic weekend together." Good one!!

The cost of neo is rising. The good thing for us is that we use small pieces. Hope it doesn't escalate sharply though.


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## chopchange (Oct 25, 2010)

Given how tiny HO slot car magnets are, are rising neo costs really going to be a factor? In a $40 (or $100) car? When controllers, tools and so on and so on, cost what they do?


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## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

8 years ago NEO magnets for t-jets were only available from one source, Slugger. he paid dearly to have them created and they cost $40.00 a pair retail because of his cost. he has since passed his producer onto nostalgia Hobbys in N.J. and I don't know the cost now. in the past three years I have found Naco-car through eBay and his NEO t-jet magnets cost $20.00 a pair retail currently. half of what Sluggers cost before. if the material to make these magnets dwindles or goes up in price for the manufacturer, trust me, the larger consumers of this material will bid what they need to and the hobby manufacturers will have to take the dregs at whatever price they can find. therefore, the price will skyrocket. it would be wise to stock up on these commodities NOW if you really are considering using them in the future. we have already been warned that China is going to restrict the major ingredient in producing NEO magnets, so we should prepare.


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

Why do they have the corner on the market? Is it just because they are cheaper?
Why should China control anything about our production here?


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## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

AfxToo said:


> I was half joking when I wrote "_neo magnets were probably only available for secret government projects_" but in fact this is for real and the use of neo magnets is current weapon systems is quite large. The same can be said for modern electric and hybrid vehicles. Why do we care and what does it mean to us?_ Well, it seems like the largest supplier of the raw material needed to make neo and other rare earth magnets is China, and they have started to strategically limit and tighten their export quantities and significantly raise prices on rare earth material_. Bottom line is that you should expect to see the cost of these magnets and powder rise significantly as the demand increases and availability is further restricted.
> 
> +1 more vote for Brass.


well, this was an indicator?


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

NTxSlotCars said:


> Why do they have the corner on the market? Is it just because they are cheaper?
> Why should China control anything about our production here?


Actually, it's because the material is patented until 2014 by the Chinese company that came up with the formula. There is one US company that produces the same stuff, but they have a cross-licensing agreement with the Chinese company so if one says time to raise prices the other follows. Producing and/or distributing black market neo, which some people have done, is supposedly a rather serious offense.


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

Amazing, I guess neo is more powerful than I thought.


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## bemoore (Dec 23, 2008)

SwamperGene said:


> Actually, it's because the material is patented until 2014 by the Chinese company that came up with the formula. There is one US company that produces the same stuff, but they have a cross-licensing agreement with the Chinese company so if one says time to raise prices the other follows. Producing and/or distributing black market neo, which some people have done, is supposedly a rather serious offense.


A Chinese company that bothered to get a patent???? And they insist on US companies honoring that patent??? Hilarious.


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

Well, we actually try to enforce patents here.

Oh yeah, and child labor is illegal here, unless you're an actor.


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

bemoore said:


> A Chinese company that bothered to get a patent???? And they insist on US companies honoring that patent??? Hilarious.


Well...technically I'd suppose they bought the patent(s) when they bought Magnaquench (a US company), not sure on that but either way these "real" magnet wars were a huge political quagmire a few years ago.


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

NTxSlotCars said:


> Oh yeah, and child labor is illegal here, unless you're an actor.


 
Hmmm...considering we all spend an awful lot of time playing with toys....and most of us work....


they may need to redefine those laws :freak:


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## 1976Cordoba (Sep 20, 2000)

bemoore said:


> A Chinese company that bothered to get a patent???? And they insist on US companies honoring that patent??? Hilarious.


BINGO. :thumbsup:

Early candidate for "Post of The Year"


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## slotcar58 (Jun 21, 2007)

*Improved M-Car*

I've been talking several racers from around the country about your concept. We are all excited about it! I believe the time is right for this car!

A low cost, easy to build, and fast car. Have you thought about a version with clear body mount tubes? Will there be a large enough supply of M-Cars to satisfy demand? Is the M-Car still in production?

Walthers / Life-Like has done quite well with their Proto 2000 locomotives. The next generation M-Car could have been the same thing for HO car racing. It shows that larger manufacturers do not want to produce items for a base which is as small as the current base of HO racers. It's a darn same things have come to this!

Their lose will be your gain!

This is a car class that gives the power back to the racers. Amen!


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## cwbam (Feb 8, 2010)

Neo Magnets are available, with just a little search I found many different sizes and if you want to buy 1000 in an their exact size they are economical. Now getting the exact size for your application may cost $$$$. 
For outrageous costs check what steel is doing i.e. Rebar , Pipe, Bar Joist ect... up maybe 40% in 4 months with demand being steady for months and significantly lower demand then 3 years ago.


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## neorules (Oct 20, 2006)

Slotcar57 wrote: "A low cost, easy to build, and fast car. Have you thought about a version with clear body mount tubes? Will there be a large enough supply of M-Cars to satisfy demand? Is the M-Car still in production?"

Thanks for the post Slotcar. To answer your Questions I guess in reverse order. No, the M-car is not currently in production. There is a large supply of these cars out there, especially in peoples boxes going unused. That is why we will be making kits available for those interested starting next week. We don't reccommend running the cars without a hardbody. The increased speeds and the experience with lexan and these cars from the past leads us to conclude they would be easier to break without the hardbody.


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

In essence, isn't this really a T Chassis with larger traction magnets?

Hear me out on this.
I like the M Chassis the way it is. It's a great concept, and handles great, and can be reworked.
I would gladly hack up a T chassis and put bigger traction magnets, seein as hows 
theyre still comin over here by the boat load. That's one fault it has, it needs bigger traction mags.

But the M chassis. Come on man, it's a classic. If any need a home, they are welcome here.
I just hate to see a mass modification of a chassis that's not being produced anymore.

PS, my experience with lexan bodies on M chassis, not good.
If you back it into a wall at speed, you can snap the chassis over the rear axle.


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## neorules (Oct 20, 2006)

NTX--- do you run the m with any mods or just as it comes. Same ? with the t. We have found in our HOPRA boxstock classes, that the T is a much better car for speed and handling. The rules only allow for slip-on rears and dbl flanged hubs as the only change. The t holds all the boxstock track records. Under the same rules the M-Tech Prototype car would hold all the records easily. You can still fiddle with motor and p-u shoe tension, take out the arm without touching the magnets and run cool-- something the m car never did in race form. When LL aproached me about the upgraded M- car. This was a very inexpensive way to make the car handle better and be faster. The Series II was the version I submitted to them.My goal was for them to have the fastest and best handling out of the package boxstock ever made. This car would have achieved that pupose.


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