# Tyco Pro chassis problem



## wisky

Hi everyone and Merry Christmas. I recently got a Typo Pro car with a brass chaasis (looks like brass). The chassis is loose on the 2 front black tabs and hangs low, causing the car to derail at every curve no matter how slow. Other than this the car seems perfect. This is my first Tyco Pro car. Any suggestions how I can fix it or can it even be fixed. Thanks again everyone.

Randy


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## Jisp

Randy, I'm very new to Tyco Pros and am interested to see how this is resolved. Hope someone can help you out soon.

Cheers,
Michael.


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## partspig

Black tabs??? Like is always said, a picture is worth a thousand words. The brass pan on a Tyco Pro is designed to "float" underneath the plastic "chassis". Your tires may well be too small. And I am guessing at this…………….. pig


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## cwbam

Try a different chassis, HP7 or 440X2 underneath the body.
tyco pro are fragile, temperamental, ect....
1 tip , a clean electrical path can help.


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## 60chevyjim

check the pickups, the flat ones sometimes are a problem . if they are bent wrong ?
it will keep the chassis from sitting down tight on the track. I have had some like this.
as for the loose pan . check if you can bend the metal tabs to make the pan stay tight ,
if not ..
what I do myself is I would clean the chassis really good and make shure the pan is tight against the chassis while it is upsidedown and use a couple drops of (( gel ))super glue on the corners of the pan , don't use the watery kind , I get it from dollartree stores.
to secure the pan tight to the chassis keeping it upsidedown till it dries ...this is just what I would do. others may have a different way of doing this . everyone has there own way they like to do things. so see what others advice is . 
and then pick the one you like from what you have read.


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## bobwoodly

I love TycoPro's but they do tend to derail. There are two tabs on the brass pan that you can tighten by pressing them closer to the plastic portion of the chassis. 

Is this a button chassis?










or a flag chassis?










I've found with the flag chassis adjusting the flags helps. Also check to see that the guide isn't shortened or broken which is a common issue.


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## gonegonzo

The pan and the chassis are supposed to float separately . If you glue them together , you take that action away .

Look for broken tabs and be sure to run front tires on the chassis.

Gonzo


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## Jisp

That's excellent information guys, thank you. I hope the OP sees it. Not looking to hijack his thread but to take things a little further.......

As I said earlier, I'm very new to the whole pan "thing" and this kind of Tyco chassis. Can someone please explain the theory behind the floating arrangement and the on track characteristics. Thanks for any insight.

Cheers,
Michael. :thumbsup:


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## wisky

Thanks for the help everyone. These are my first Tyco-Pro cars. They have the flag chassis. The car I am having the problem with is probably one of the originals. I am use to Tjets, so I do not know much about these. I will learn those. Thanks again everyone
Hope you all have a happy and healthy new year


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## LDThomas

I call both of those "flag" chassis because they have a guide flag rather than a guide pin. The top pic is a "button" version and the bottom pic is a "wiper" version.


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## slotcardan

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## Bill Hall

Good stuff Dan. This should be a sticky in Tech and Tune.


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## slotcardan

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## gonegonzo

Dan ,

You've spread wealth of information here . being one that has several Pro Cars , I play with them now and then but never to the extent you have . The ones that I prefer are the pogo cars . 

Am I reading you correctly that you bend the plastic arms to adjust the front wheels ? I attempted the front end modification as in the Riggen web site . That turned out to be a disaster on this end . There needs to be a way to align bore the axle holes . You just can't get it with pin vice and drill .

The way it sounds my track ( Tuckaway 25 ) will not handle the cars in top form . I am however partial to sectional track as for the nostalgic blend it gives .

Gonzo


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## slotcardan

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## slotcardan

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## partspig

slotcardan said:


> well i've written pages and pages on tycopro cars... google, tycopro and slotcardan to get started....
> 
> first thing the brass plate is actually not suppose to float on the tyco pro chassis.
> there are modifications for a floating plate on a tyco pro. but, the basic tyco pro chassis should not have a floating brass or steel plate.
> 
> the thing with the brass pan is usually they loosened up over time or tyco never punched them into the plastic correctly. the rear fingers on the brass or steel plate slide into the chassis but the front 2 fingers should be tight into the plastic chassis and hold the plate firm.... this will cause problems with running because now you have to properly adjust the chassis.


I, for one do not aspire to the theory that the TP pans should be fixed. They were designed to float. That is the rear of the pan is hinged, and the front of the pan is supposed to have a drop. Which allows the guide/pick up assembly to float also. 

quote:Our pan/guideshoe assembly now pivots in the vicinity of the rear axle with a built in 10 degree "drop". By allowing the pan/guideshoe assembly to "float" beneath the car, we've also insured that the guideshoe is less affected by motor, gear or road vibrations and is, therefore, less likely to deslot. unquote

Also contrary to the beliefs of some, Tyco never “locked” this drop pan in the up position - there were, however some instances that the staking tools "cocked" the limiting tabs, causing the pan to jamb either full up, or full down.

Just a few things that I learned years ago. Everyone tunes cars differently, there is no one perfect method. Just like everyone drives them differently. No two tracks drive the same, what works on one track will not work on the next one. Hence, the many myriad ways of tuning, tailoring the car to suit the driver and the tracks needs. When someone tells me "ya gotta do it this way" I am always chuckling, ………………. Just my two cents ……………..


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## slotcardan

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## partspig

partspig said:


> I, for one do not aspire to the theory that the TP pans should be fixed. They were designed to float. That is the rear of the pan is hinged, and the front of the pan is supposed to have a drop. Which allows the guide/pick up assembly to float also.
> 
> quote:Our pan/guideshoe assembly now pivots in the vicinity of the rear axle with a built in 10 degree "drop". By allowing the pan/guideshoe assembly to "float" beneath the car, we've also insured that the guideshoe is less affected by motor, gear or road vibrations and is, therefore, less likely to deslot. unquote
> 
> Also contrary to the beliefs of some, Tyco never “locked” this drop pan in the up position - there were, however some instances that the staking tools "cocked" the limiting tabs, causing the pan to jamb either full up, or full down.


The info above came from Pat Dennis, years ago……… there is also one design flaw in the TP chassis. That Mr. Dennis freely admitted, in that the guide flag was sadly lacking. The guide flag's are made of a material that would flex when the car was in a curve, greatly diminishing it's ability to corner, causing it to de-slot. The foil pick ups were a pain to get just right, the button pick ups were even worse. Hence most guys that I raced with used braids and a pin for the guide, somewhat similar to the upgrades they used on the brass wars pancake cars. Just my two cents.


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## slotcardan

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## partspig

Pat Dennis wrote a lot, he also designed stuff a bit. I was referring to ALL of the TP guide flags. They flexed at speed, we used to race them. We raced them on large oval tracks. Most of the tracks we raced on measured from 16 feet to 32 feet. That measurement is taken from the apex of the curves, not lap length. They were big fast tracks. When we raced on these tracks, we didn't have any humps, jumps, banked turns, ferris wheels, loop de loops or roller coasters to negotiate. It was go fast turn left boys!!! And if ya didn't turn left ya kissed the wall! Most of our short circuits were from turtling cars. We had one class that used tin foil bodies, so when ya wrecked it looked like ya hit something.  I wish I had some photo's of it, but I don't. I wish I still had the cars, but I don't. All I have is the memories. And I remember guys coming to race, with fixed pans. I remember seeing their cars going down the straights hopping like kangaroo's, the tracks were not what you would call smooth, like a lot of them are today. I can remember going to the surplus electronics store in town and buying old circuit boards to make pick up shoe systems out of. You couldn't use an old pop or soda bottle, they came in glass bottles. Blister pack, what the heck is that?? Water Bottle?? that's that hot water thingy that grandpa put under the blanket to help with his arthritis. Now that you know I am older than dirt, ya know that I can have a senior moment at any time. What the heck was the question??? Time for bed, the heck with it……………some will never learn …….. Good night David…or is it Alice?? :wave:


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## GoodwrenchIntim

I love me some tyco pros


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## Bill Hall

*Uther ways to skin the kitty*

The Tyco Pro will always be my favorite. Truly innovative at the time. While everyone else was building more complicated mouse traps. Tyco took it to a whole other level with a low slung ride height and integrated handling pan, quick change motor capability, snap in rear axle set ups with silicone tires, and a fully functional pivoting drop arm. Arguably an elegant minimalistic design. Pretty bad ass at the time, and they could be had for lunch money. I'll never forget lighting off my Ford modified for the first time! It combined all the big boy ideas in the small scale cars I love. Coming from the age of, rattling brass monkey motion, riding on ugly lil yellow wheels, shod with petrified washer slicks or dried up spongeez; their was no doubt that the Tyco- Pros were the bomb. 

Other days, I love to hatem'. My observation is that no amount of adjustment, diddling, or prayer can repair the Tyco Pro guide flag's one inherent limitation; which is compromised lateral guide flag geometry. To my eye trimming voltage is merely settling, and undercuts the qwirk before it really rears it's ugly head. I need more power, better control of that power, and handling that will accommodate or compliment these features. I dont need a governor at the limit! I wanna be able to get loose predictably and power out on command with a flick of the finger. 

The flag's ability to pivot is inadequate at the handing limit. This travel limitation locks the angular chassis momentum at a fixed point that falls well short of of what an experienced driver can ordinarily drive through. The end result is that the guide travel runs out before the chassis swing/slide settles. Essentially the chassis cant swing beyond 60/70 degrees when ya actually need 80 or more. (Ball parking....I never actually used a protractor)

Think of a lever action catapult. Now lay it on its side and you have the Tyco Pro guide flag regardless of subsequent retrofits. At speed, when the bind point is achieved; the flag is forcefully canted in the slot like a slotted screwdriver, and the angular momentum is violently reversed. The subsequent recoil of angular momentum following the "travel bind" creates the whiplash effect that makes Tyco-Pros all but impossible to drive at or beyond the ragged edge.

Yer sliding along fine and then ....Schle-boing! The laws of physics say yer done because you've run out of necessary guide flag travel. On the juice, deep in the turn, with our tail heading perpendicular to the slot; we need over steer to allow us to get things sorted out. The last thing you want is a spring loaded chassis ejector that automatically tosses you out when your attempting to razor the edge.

The controlling factor for all of the Tyco Pro handling nonsense is the proportional relationship between the contact rail spacing and the width of the chassis/car/front axle. A complex drop arm assembly with a pivoting guide flag is lost under a 1/32 - 1/24 chassis designs. Making it happen in 1/64 is quite another matter and required some serious compromise given the standard rail spacing. Things are just too tight for barn door accuracy so they arent easy to set up and keep in tune. If the Matchbox rail spacing was the standard, a flag designed to those dimensions could pivot and function properly.

As Dan points out, it's a detail oriented, tinkerers platform. I prefer the drop arm versions, IMHO Tyco's first idea was the best idea. The later fixed guide design and weight slug only serve to exacerbate the jittering, stuttering, and generally spastic behavior. Eliminating the drop arm and pre-loading the electrical contacts negates the arm's isolating property that dampened vibration. Adding weight after the fact is a nono in my build book. Properly laid out and adjusted, a drop arm should lay down and plant itself as chassis speed increases.

Tyco-Pro's are already low enough! Again as Dan intimated, every body under sizes the front tires. Excessive lowering puts the front chassis rails in proximity of clobbering the flag as it pivots, further decreasing the lock out angle. Arbitrarily applying the "lower is better mentality" usually kills any hope of ever getting the drop arm to actually "DROP". Dropping the chassis nose essentially wipes out the "up" portion of the arm's TOTAL travel range. Notably the arm will be pinned against the "arm stop" located on the drop arm retainer clip. This raises the flag above the arm's pivot point and causes the assembly to kite. A drop arm should always hang under center. Plowing enforces the necessary electrical contact. 

Wires are a legitimate concern. They should be long enough and flexible enough to do the job. Clodded up leads that are too stiff and too short only add insult to injury; by slowing the guide's pivot response, or limiting it's travel ability outright. The guide needs to rotate AND move up and down. Ancient wire insulation suffering from rigor mortis need not apply. Cough up a few nickels and get some new wire. I tin my wires and pin the motor side with the brush tubes on the armature side, thus dispensing with the annoying "diddle tab contact doohickey" once and for all. Tossing them in the trash gives me great pleasure. The drop arm retainer clip still keeps the wires in place nicely, and you've eliminated several electro/mechanical failure points.

As a scratch builder, and veteran of the golden age; I'm used to working with braid and make them up as I go along. The disclaimer is that my rail joints are dressed to allow the running of braid. I tin the braid's end and drill out the index hole for the keeper tang. Then I file off any irregularities on the tinned portion so it pre-fits the braid holding slots correctly. Tin the wires and attach them. Assemble the guide flag and install.

I prefer to pre-break my braids. Once installed, I comb them aggressively until they settle in. Beyond that it's slot car 101, there's no magic factory foil adjustment tool or pogo-voodoo. Just fold them around flat against the holder and comb them out. Naturally, like any old school rig ya gotta check them after horrendous crashes.


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## GoodwrenchIntim

Good stuff Bill!!!


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## slotcardan

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## wisky

Thank you so much everyone. i have to get the time to take the cars and do what you all told me. Thanks again

Randy


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## slotcardan

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## Pat Dennis

I don't want to rain on your parade, but your comment: _first thing the brass plate is actually not suppose to float on the tyco pro chassis.
there are modifications for a floating plate on a tyco pro. but, the basic tyco pro chassis should not have a floating brass or steel plate.

the thing with the brass pan is usually they loosened up over time or tyco never punched them into the plastic correctly. the rear fingers on the brass or steel plate slide into the chassis but the front 2 fingers should be tight into the plastic chassis and hold the plate firm.... this will cause problems with running because now you have to properly adjust the chassis_.
This is absolutely incorrect! The TycoPro 2 had a "drop pan" that pivoted at the rear (with little or no play in the hinge) and had the front tabs staked in such a manner to allow the front to "drop" approx. 10 degrees. This kept the CG quite low and compensate for the irregularities in plastic set track. If you reform the front tabs to hold the entire pan rigidly to the bottom of the chassis, you will introduce chassis "hop" due to the upward force of the pickups and probably transmit motor vibrations to the entire car.


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## slotcardan

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