# OT: NASCAR & The Competition Yellow 400 at Indy



## 1976Cordoba (Sep 20, 2000)

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahaha -- what a joke. Has anyone else been watching this joke unfold?

Tony Stewart has been right all along -- Goodyears are junk.


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## win43 (Aug 28, 2006)

I have been watching this....... uhmm...race??? What a battle of the pit crews !!!!! Think i'll go take a nap........


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## fordcowboy (Dec 27, 1999)

goodyear should give these tires away. bad race.if you can call it that.


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## tjettim (Nov 29, 2005)

Only the last ten laps were worth watching.


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

Its a joke for sure. They should run Firestones and Indy. They know what to expect. I bought a book off of ebay, the first autobiography about Richard Petty, from 1972. He had a whole chapter about the development of the tires in the sixties. Brock Yates book, Nascar:Off the record, also has a chapter devoted to the tires wars of the sixties between Goodyear and Firestone, not just in Nascar, but all over the world. Interesting info in both books. You would think someone at Goodyear would read thier own history, apparently not. Before this year started, people were comparing this season to the 81 season, when Nascar switched to the less-aerodynamically-stable downsized cars. Back then(on Bias Ply) Goodyear opted to play it safe with a harder compound until some data could be gathered. The radials aren't the same. They tried that at Atlanta, and the cars slid around so bad, the drivers said they couldn't pass. After the race, that's where Tony blew up about Goodyears, but he's right. I feel his pain. I have bought a set of wizzards that flew off the hub while I was warming up the car. On the other hand, I still have some wizzard sets that are ten years old and still runnable. Where is the consistancy? We run alot of stock tire classes. I don't really like the stock tomy tires on the G+ or the Turbos. I think Tyco has everyone beat on stock tires. Lifelikes can be good, depending on the track. HP7 tires work good on Magna traction stock tire classes. We use those on the street stocks and dirt car classes. Generally, stock car classes run more evenly with Tyco Tires.

Live reporting from Tyco Tire Technical Institute,
Rich


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

Hoosiers. Good on dirt, good on pavement. All I have to say.


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## Pomfish (Oct 25, 2003)

If I were unlucky enough to have been a Paying fan at that race, I would ask for a Refund.
Goodyear should pay the lion's share and Na$car the rest.
What a Joke for what is the Second most important race of the season, status wise.
Thanks,
Keith


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## SplitPoster (May 16, 2006)

Stopped getting sucked in a long time ago, didn't watch a lap. The refrerence to Tire 
Wars of old is so relevant ! Competition is good, if somebody does it better, it shows. Spec this, exclusive contract that - ends up all anything has to be is "just good enough". I mean, you could put em all on truck tires and you'd still have that "level playing field" they strive for, and no risk of somebody elses rubber showing them up.
I understand the desirability of single source tire makes for a race - wouldn't it be cool if multiple manufacturers could compete for that contract periodically rather than just award it to the highest bidder/palm greaser?

Of course, Michelin had a tire fiasco at Indy a couple of years ago on that course that runs the wrong way through the golf course, and subsequently disappeared from the series the next year...... but Goodyear already took their marbles and went home from F1 before getting a shot at the exclusive deal Bridgestone got....


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## rudykizuty (Aug 16, 2007)

No doubt, the worst showing by NASCAR at Indy ever.


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

It came down to a decision: 

Do I watch the Brickyard race or do I mow the grass?

Based on the total lameness of past NASCAR events at the Brickyard, I decided to mow...

Much to my surprise, or chagrin, the "race" was still going after the lawn care excitement was over. 

Indy is a wonderful facility, and putting those big ungainly NASCARs on a race course that's not at all suited for the cars or the spectators is definitely a novelty and a spectacle. But so is watching a monkey wearing a diaper and necktie ride a pony. 

I'm just glad I had a little bit of excitement in my afternoon.


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## rudykizuty (Aug 16, 2007)

AfxToo said:


> It came down to a decision:
> 
> Do I watch the Brickyard race or do I mow the grass?
> 
> Based on the total lameness of past NASCAR events at the Brickyard, I decided to mow...


Funny.....the same thought had crossed my mind, except for the fact that Mother Nature kinda decided matters for me. We had storms roll through yesterday with flooding in some areas and winds upwards of 45 mph. There are reports that locally, three people were struck by lightning as well :freak: But whatever, it's a rare day when I would have preferred yardwork over a race.


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## noddaz (Aug 6, 1999)

Wow... I missed it..
*yawn*
(I guess not...) lol
Scott


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## tjettim (Nov 29, 2005)

How many of you actualy buy Goodyear tires? Or Firestones?
I like Michelins on my truck better,they last longer.And on
the wifes car Generals have been a good value.The Firestones
that came on my Ford truck were recalled because of blowouts,
they were lousy in the rain anyway.With Nascar and IRL at least
they have someone using their tires.


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## ben naelitz (Feb 7, 2007)

the least they could have done to try and save face is let the race go green for the final 20 laps instead of bringing out the last mandated yellow..... the drivers and teams knew what they had in tires and could have let them decide when to pit or not pit.....


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

tjettim said:


> How many of you actualy buy Goodyear tires? Or Firestones?
> I like Michelins on my truck better,they last longer.And on
> the wifes car Generals have been a good value.The Firestones
> that came on my Ford truck were recalled because of blowouts,
> ...


True. I prefer Michelins over F & Gs as well. Again, they will NEVER top that first Brickyard 400, with Jeff Gordon sliding out of turn 4 to get the pole, the Bodines crashing each other out and having thier dirty family laundry aired out in front of everyone, and then Jeff Gordon and Ernie Irvan dualing it out for the lead the last 40 laps, til Irvan blew a tire(Goodyear). I'm disappointed every year. Did I mention their was a tire war that year? (Goodyear/Hoosier)

Rich


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## rudykizuty (Aug 16, 2007)

I have been a fan of Michelin for over 20 years. Every set I have ever owned always wore like they were iron. Good grip too. 

Have had at least half a dozen new cars come with Goodyears installed, including my current ride which wears the Fortera. They're the first decent set among the whole lot.


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## ScottD961 (Jan 31, 2008)

It's been imteresting to follow for sure. I have always used Dunlop GT Qualifiers on all of my rides. They have more real rubber in there makeup than other brands so the wetter they get the stickier they get.


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## bumpercar88 (Feb 6, 2005)

I agree w/ Dunlop back in the 80s they were $50 a tire cheaper than the Goodyear gator backs handled as good dry and significantly better in the rain on my Mustang. Disagree w/ Nascar, after three or four competition yellows let the teams run as they may they've received enough of a warning and know what to expect. They went to the green, white, checkered to prevent boring finishes under yellow yet ran the entire race w/ mandated yellow stops. Maybe they should move the Indy race to O'Reilly Race Park and let them race!


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## Jim Norton (Jun 29, 2007)

*Tires are the least of Nascar's problems.....*

The first Nascar race I saw in person was in 1979. When the cars received the green flag, my legs literally shook as I stood there for the first 20 or so laps....Most exciting thing I ever saw in my life.

But today, Nascar has evolved into a show. It is no longer a race. I have a tape of the 1981 Daytona 500 and you would not believe the passing that occured just about every time the cars entered turn 3. It was Amazing to see Neil Bonnet come from third place passing Baker and Allison while bringing 2 or more cars with him. You could even see inside the car as the driver fought the wheel. 

This was really racing. You had a group of guys who wanted to lead and fans that loved it. If people could be reminded of how exciting Nascar once was, today's events would be seen as not a race, but a parade. Interest would fade even quicker. 

Fast forward to today.....Yawn. Forgive me but you have a bunch of pretty boy millionaires sanctioned by an organization that sees the race as a show. The LAST THING either want to do is really RACE. 

This weekend's "event" at Indy pretty much sums up what a loser this type of racing has become. For the past few years, attendance has become less and less. People are leaving the stands asking themselves why they devoted their weekend and dropped hundreds of dollars in cash watching something their local dirt track does better.

Its a show....not a race.

Jim Norton
Huntsville, Alabama (just North of the Alabama Gang)


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## 1976Cordoba (Sep 20, 2000)

Jim Norton said:


> The first Nascar race I saw in person was in 1979. When the cars received the green flag, my legs literally shook as I stood there for the first 20 or so laps....Most exciting thing I ever saw in my life.
> 
> But today, Nascar has evolved into a show. It is no longer a race. I have a tape of the 1981 Daytona 500 and you would not believe the passing that occured just about every time the cars entered turn 3. It was Amazing to see Neil Bonnet come from third place passing Baker and Allison while bringing 2 or more cars with him. You could even see inside the car as the driver fought the wheel.
> 
> ...


Couldn't have said it better myself.

I miss my local dirt short track -- it is a super Menard's now. Pavement late model racing is kind of drying up around here too.


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

I second, or third, that. I try to record or buy any old footage of Nascar I can find. Anything from '92 on back, for obvious reasons. :thumbsup:

Rich _43_


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## SplitPoster (May 16, 2006)

Ditto you guys, just going fast in shiny cars doesn't make great racing. 

There is a dirt maybe 8 miles from me, doing great, asked my TM if she wanted to go last week and she said sure. Now if we get a Saturday night without rain, and the sprints are running I know it'll be a great show - not because it's designed to fill up a certain amount of air time, but because there are a bunch of guys trying to win a shootout.


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## tjettim (Nov 29, 2005)

When one of the washed up older Nascar drivers was asked why he still
raced, his answer was "where else can I make this much an hour?


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## TEAM D.V.S. (Nov 11, 2007)

*the race*

man i sure am glad that i went to the truck race at IRP and not the cup race. i have been to it two times and i will never go back! the truck/busch race is a night race on short track good seats every where you go its awesome!! :thumbsup:



http://z9.invisionfree.com/CITRO/index.php?


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## 1976Cordoba (Sep 20, 2000)

IRP is a great track with the progressive banking.:thumbsup:


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## A/FX Nut (May 28, 2004)

I watched this race between mowing and replacing a broken drive belt on the mower, and mowing some more. Not happy at all with the race. Lawn looks good though. 

Goodyear needs to step it up. But the drivers need to voice their opinions also. Not just Tony, but all of them. I think Tony got in trouble for his comments earlier in the year about Goodyear. But if all the drivers said to fix it, NASCAR wouldn't fire all of them, now would they?

But it was a different car at Indy this year also. This COT car handles and acts very much the same way the cars of the 60's, 70's and early 80's did.

I'd like to see Hoosier tires in NASCAR again, along with Firestone and Michilen. Competition would give the racers the best effort from the tire companies. 

As for the Firestone recall:
The Firestone recall was NOT Firestone's fault. Firestone was the fall guy. Ford told people to inflate the tires below the recommended P.S.I. The next year Ford increased the length and width of the wheel base of it's SUVs to prevent further rollovers.
Ford is a much bigger company than Firestone. The powers that be wasn't going to let Ford suffer and go bankrupt. That would've been bad for the economy.


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## TEAM D.V.S. (Nov 11, 2007)

*truck race*

OK HERE IS THE FOOTAGE!!

PIT LANE ! http://media.putfile.com/CRAFTSMEN-TRUCK-RACE-IRP-2008-27

CAUTION LAP. http://media.putfile.com/CRAFTSMEN-TRUCK-RACE-IRP-2008

RACE ACTION ! http://media.putfile.com/CRAFTSMEN-TRUCK-RACE-IRP-2008-87

Thank god i didnt go to that crappy nascar race !!! wink.gif 

sorry about the shaky camera !


http://z9.invisionfree.com/CITRO/index.php?


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

> The Firestone recall was NOT Firestone's fault. Firestone was the fall guy.


You must be referring to the Little Recall. The Big One was the infamous Firestone 500 recall. The company has still not regained its reputation and consumer confidence from the Big One.

Indy Fiasco '08 was a combination of factors that each contributed to a failure of the complete system. New car, wrong tire compound for the track, track conditions, inadequate testing, just to name the primary contributors. In defense of NASCAR there was no good outcome to be achieved once the race was underway and they were faced with the prevailing conditions. You can't exactly tell 200,000+ people "oops, nevermind, come back next week when we get our act together ... so sorry, here's coupon for a free hot dog..." They had a losing hand and tried to bluff their way out of it the best they could. The result sort of loosely resembled a race. At least the celeb-drivers all stayed around to participate in the Show, unlike a very similar problem that occurred at Talledega in 1968. 

To place all of the blame on Goodyear is ridiculous, as is making a purchase decision about the kind of tires you run on your family hauler based on the performance of a specially formulated racing component that has no more resemblance to the tires run on your street cars than the NASCAR vehicles have to the street car models they are supposed to represent. NASCAR is entertainment, well most of the time, and sometimes they have a flop. This year's Indy race was a flop for everyone but the folks who walked away with a boatload of cash.

The lawn still looks pretty good.


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## Jim Norton (Jun 29, 2007)

*Firestone recall tid bit*

It was shared with me that the rollover deaths which brought about the recall was not as much about the tires as the driver.

Supposedly, the majority of these deaths were women at the wheel. When the tire failed, the women were unable to bring the SUV back under control and the worst happened.

This is just what was shared with me. In this politically correct world I can see such facts being surpressed and discounted. I know for a fact that I can drive better than my wife.....The media would never acknowledge that however.

For what its worth.....

Jim Norton
Huntsville, Alabama


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## Wizard Of Iz (Sep 8, 2006)

*No Competition*

Regarding the race ... I watched the Brick till the second No Competition Caution and switched over to _Bonanza_ and then _Gunsmoke_ on TV Land. Sure, I sneaked a peak at the Brick during commercials but the race never materialized. I would have loved to hear the off-air comments in the TV booth.

It's a far cry from 1969 at Talladega when the top drivers loaded up and left because they couldn't *race* on the tires that Goodyear and Firestone provided. They didn't want to drive around the track at 3/4 throttle, they wanted to *race.*


Regarding Ford and Firestone. They're both to blame but I give the edge to Ford. They got complaints that their SUV rode like a truck and rather than redesign the suspension they under-inflated the tires to soften the ride. 

Ford gambled with the life of their customers to save a buck. Firestone was guilty of a sin of ommission for failing to object and went along to make a buck.


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## A/FX Nut (May 28, 2004)

AfxToo said:


> You must be referring to the Little Recall. The Big One was the infamous Firestone 500 recall..


The recall related to the SUV rollovers was no Little Recall. Every SUV Ford made came with Firestones. Firestone lost alot of money on that. The Firestone 500 recall was the little one.


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

While it's subjective to call either recall little, the Firestone 500 recall affected 14 million tires versus 6.5 million for the Wilderness tire. The 500 recall dropped Firestone from its top spot and nearly bankrupted the company. 

Had Firestone not handled the 1978 recall so poorly from a PR and liability perspective they would have been given more consideration in the Ford related case. But after the Firestone 500 debacle their credibility was forever tarnished and so the quick rush to judgment and damage control by the company (and Ford) when the year 2000 case hit. Every article about the Wilderness tire issue always brings up the 500 case. Whether it was Ford or Firestone most at fault with the Wilderness tire failures, Firestone's handling of the 500 case forever ruined their reputation and credibility. Putting a total dollar figure on what the Firestone 500 issue cost Firestone over the 30 years since the 500 bomb would probably yield a staggering number.

Interesting topics for discussion but little relevancy to the Indy '08 charade. I've used a lot of Goodyear, Firestone, Bridgestone, tires over the years on the family haulers and they all seem to be good quality. However, if I'm looking to compare tires for my own car I'll look at Consumer Reports and not the results sheet at Nascar.com or Formula1.com.


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## eastside johnny (May 13, 2008)

Well, Goodyear? can't blame competition from Hoosier like they tried to get away with years back for substandard stuff.........now if you do the math, a set of tires from Goodyear? in NA$CAR is, I believe that I've read, $1200. If they only go 10 laps at 16 sets per car that's $19,200 for each car times 43 cars is $825,600!!! They are in business to make money, right? At least Michelin had the balls to admit the problem, warn the teams AND refund the paying spectators. ....I turned on the TV just in time for the lap 10 competition yellow, found out what was going on and that was it....Speaking of competition yellows, if they throw it so that the teams can check/monitor tire wear, it seems to me that they should "Freeze the field" and restart in the order that they were running rather than gain positions in the pits. Just my 2 cents.


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

> Speaking of competition yellows, if they throw it so that the teams can check/monitor tire wear, it seems to me that they should "Freeze the field" and restart in the order that they were running rather than gain positions in the pits. Just my 2 cents.


What excellent insight. That does make a lot more sense than turning a race with one of the largest purses of the year into a glorified pit crew competition, especially at Indy where passing is difficult. Any way you slice it, what happened is clearly on NASCAR's back since they own the show. 

If there is a silver lining to this dark cloud it's that the meltdown on the Cup side completely masked the travesty that took place on the Nationwide side over the weekend at Indy where the Toyota teams got rewarded for their success by having to effectively run restrictor plates on their engines for the rest of the season. Welcome to NASCAR, try your best, play by the rules, be good, but not too good because we'll punish you if you win too much and spoil "the show."


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## 1976Cordoba (Sep 20, 2000)

Back in 1988 or so when Hoosier was getting the better of Goodyear week in and week out in Winston Cup, Goodyear came up with the wonderful 'racing radial' that would be so much safer for the drivers than the bias-ply race tires that had been in use for decades.

NASCAR mandated the radials and Hoosier could not compete financially and had to withdraw from the sport. Oh, and the new safer radials caused a slew of crashes early on as they did not give any warning before they broke loose like the bias ply tires.

Coincidentally, Cup racing -- _*RACING*_ -- has sucked pretty much since then. The races on the bias ply tires pre-1989 were always entertaining since the drivers had so much control. If Darrell Waltrip was pushing to catch Bobby Allison, you could see the smoke trailing his right rear tire as he 'hung it out' to go faster.

Now, it's all about the set-up and who can hire better engineers.


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

Exactly Doba. Where did Earnhardt finish in the points in 92, the first full season of the radial? Also, in 89 they brought in the freakin "Lumina", and so, "stock cars" didn't even have be rear wheel drive anymore. Now they run 4 door Camrys. Can someone just start a new series somewhere? What's ASA doing these days?

Rich


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## 22tall (Jul 28, 2002)

I look at NASCAR as the racing world's version of professional wrestling. 

COT with tech of yesteryear. Carbs and analog instruments. Join the 21st century.

Drivers keep saying all they can see is the back of the car in front of them. If they can mount 50 cameras on a car for TV they can certainly put some cameras and monitors in the car for drivers.

They love to pat themselves on the back for their commitment to safety. If DE SR hadn't died how many tracks do you think would have safe walls? The announcers love to say it is part of his legacy. Nice of them to downgrade everyone who has died in the past as worthless. 

Why haven't they put lights in and on cars so drivers know instantly that there is a caution? Why no lights so a driver can signal others that he is in trouble and needs to pit? Why haven't they done something about pit road safety? 

What about the collusion between cars? Like making deals let me lead a lap for the points and I will give back the lead. Teammates blocking for each other and so on. The commercials said 42 versus 1.

The Lucky Dog. Where else can you go laps down and still win. NASCAR added the race to the chase to be more like other sports. How about a Lucky Dog in baseball? Going into the 3rd, 6th and 9th innings if you are only 1 run down the game is tied. Think of the excitement it would create.

Mandating the same gears, shocks and everything else has made races really boring.

Overall the races I enjoy most are the GP2s. Lots of passing and bonehead moves. If you have the Speed Channel check them out.


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

Agreed, those GP races are scrappin races. When do those bodies come out on SuperG+? I thought it would be neat to make the body in pieces, like the real cars.

Hey Rudi, how's your track coming along?

Rich


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## Slott V (Feb 3, 2005)

22tall said:


> COT with tech of yesteryear. Carbs and analog instruments. Join the 21st century.


That's good Steve. :lol:

I think the last year for the big 3 factory cars using carbs was 1985. And Toyota never had a naturally aspirated V8. Or how about 4 speed transmissions? Their motives for preserving the sport seem to be blurred.

*NASCAR = No Actual Stock Cars Are Racing.* :dude:

As far as the tire issue. NASCAR needs to back Goodyear, not let them take the fall. Goodyear has the ability to make the tires they need for these bloated dinosaurs in a timely basis if they were alowed enough testing time and if NASCAR would realize that these COT's are a different animal and they cannot rely on past track experiences for input.


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## A/FX Nut (May 28, 2004)

AfxToo said:


> While it's subjective to call either recall little, the Firestone 500 recall affected 14 million tires versus 6.5 million for the Wilderness tire. The 500 recall dropped Firestone from its top spot and nearly bankrupted the company.
> 
> Had Firestone not handled the 1978 recall so poorly from a PR and liability perspective they would have been given more consideration in the Ford related case. .


Oh, 1978. Thanks for setting me straight. I was in Junior High School then. That was the big recall. 

I read a couple of articles about The 400. One on Tuesday and the another on Wednesday. The lion's share of blame is NASCARS'. A lack of testing and NASCAR's testing policy was a major factor. This COT car is much heavier and the center of gravity is higher than the old car. Thus causing more wear on the right side tires.

I'm not happy with everything NASCAR has done in the past 9 years. They're alienating the group of people that help put NASCAR at the level it enjoyed just before Dale Sr's death. Nascar is catering to people that want back the sport over the long haul.

Dale Sr's death was tragic, but let's not forget he was the fourth driver who died in a year. You had Kenny Irwin, Adam Petty, and Tony Roper who died in right front impact crashes. It wasn't until Dale died that NASCAR got off their keister and started to do something about it. I get upset when this topic comes up and Dale is the only one mentioned. All four of these people where important. Randy.


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

The past 9 years. How different things are now. After race 26, throw your points lead away that you and your team has worked so hard for,(and a championship or two, or three.), forget working your way in from the short tracks, change the name of the series 3 times, waffle on issuses, screw the fans and make em like it, oh, and let Toyota in. What, no more country music? A ZEN GARDEN?????????????

Rich


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## SplitPoster (May 16, 2006)

ditto Randy. As I recall some drivers got their hands slapped when they brought up the too heavy/too rigid car issue before Sr's untimely and preventable death. Not much impetus for change when one small group of people hold all the cards - that is, the series and rules, most of the tracks, the majority of the media, and a heavy hand over everybody involved. With the vast diversity of tracks, one wonders why testing isn't allowed at each for safety reasons alone?

The France dynasty - they came up with Grand Am and have made "Daytona Prototypes" that draw little interest - the resurgent IMSA does much better. You want to see another poorly done spec car? Grand Am's Miller Cup Mustangs. Plenty of power, no grip and a silly spec wing on the back. I am not a motorcycle guy, but I understand they bought AMA and want to turn things into a spec series too - I guess would make a cycle company with money and sponsorship but no technology suddenly a bigtime player (profit source) - but that's the name of the game, isn't it. 

Support your club and local/regional racing, because as this flower wilts alternatives who don't get any limelight now need to be strong enough to compete for viewers and fans when they get their chance.


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## MOMO57 (Oct 24, 2004)

[edited] improper language - 7 day suspension


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## LDThomas (Nov 30, 1999)

Read Announcement #2 at the top of the Slot Car General Discussion page...


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## Rolo9th (Apr 4, 2008)

I agree with what many have already said: Nascar today is no where near as exciting as it used to be. I remember as a kid, being 10, watching that 1979 Daytona 500 race with my father (he was a mechanic, and we would watch ANY racing on TV during those days, as there was never really much coverage). I really got into Nascar in the early-mid 1980's once ESPN started carrying it, and for me, the hey-day of sport was 1980-1995 or so. You still had the "old guard" of Petty, Allison, Yarborough, Pearson, Baker, etc. rolling around, and some great "young guns" in Waltrip, Earnhardt, LaBonte, Gant, etc. A nice mix of experience and enthusiasm. No restrictor plates, racing bumper to bumper, fender to fender, etc. Drafting and "sling shot" passing were common place. It was really exciting stuff. Drivers still worked on their cars somewhat, and were down to earth guys. 

Sadly, its a lot different today, and I find it very hard to follow the sport with much enthusiasm. Sure, I still tune in for the "major" races, but I find it hard to get into events at Las Vegas for example. I don't find many drivers today to be "interesting": So many are so bland and neutral it seems. I dunno, to me, it seems like Nascar went "corporate" in the chase for big money, and while they got it, it feels to me like they lost a whole lot of what made the sport great back in the day: A Southern flavor to it, short-trackin', 2 car-teams (at most), etc. Its just not the same animal as it used to be, and I don't think it changed for the better.

Guess I am getting cranky in my advanced age, LOL....(but then again, I feel the same way about F-1 too.)


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## ScottD961 (Jan 31, 2008)

I also agree with a lot of what is being said here. I used to follow it in the late sixties to the early eighties but then lost interest. Engines all the same size, same four barrel on top, same restricter plate blah blah blah. Back in the eighties you could at least identify the make of car but now all of the jelly beans look the same.
When was the last time you saw a Monte Carlo with a V8 in the front and rear wheel drive? I haven't seen one on the show room floor in years so if it stock car racing why don't they have a V6 and front wheel drive. Why aren't they on the track . Racing should be the best of wht you make against the other guys best. I really started following drag racing. They are going faster and faster all of the time . Engines are evolving etc etc. Nascar is just the (Yawn ) same old (yawn ) thing anymore. I have to go take a nap now.


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

A Zen Garden?????????????????????????????????


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## A/FX Nut (May 28, 2004)

I've started following Drag Racing also. But there is talk of slowing the Nitro cars down since Scott Kallitta's death. The finish line has been move to the 1,000 foot mark, It used to be 1,320. This is until the end of the year. I don't know if it will be permanent yet.

The fun about watching Drag Races is the upsets. Except for Top Fuel, looks like Tony Schumacher is unbeatable right now. 

I still like NASCAR, but if they keep the monkey business up, I'll be another lost fan. ABC's / ESPN's coverage needs to get much better. Last year they covered the races like everyone watching was just plain dumb or a first time veiwer. It hasn't got too much better this year either.

As for Stock in Stock Car, there is nothing stock about a Stock Car today or for the last 45 years. Bill France's idea of a Stock Car meant stock when he first formed NASCAR. But evolution made the Stock Car less stock as time went on. I read in one book where one racer got a car off the showroom floor. Taped up the headlights ripped out the back seat and other unwanted weight and went racing. 

I was born in 65'. But when I see old photos, or old race footage, and read the stories of the days from the early 70's on back to the beginning. I feel like I missed the glory days of NASCAR.

I have a ticket to the August race at MIS. I'm looking forward to the friends I've made from Canada, spending time with my brother and his buddy, oh and tossing back some cold beer, that's always a bright spot. Hopefully the race will be just as fun. Randy.


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## afxgns (Jul 6, 2006)

Sorry jump on the band wagon late but..... If Larry can do it.....

#1 I think F1 set the standard for tire fiascos. I also think there needs to be a refund, AND an appology, not just the later.

#2 I also remember the "heydays". I seem to have memories of LOTS of one groove racing. One or two up front runners. Lots of tire issues, and little, if any TV.

#3 I think we are LIVING the heydays of racing NOW!
With all the talk of pollution,global warming,conservation, and energy starvation, I can see a day coming soon where racing will be out of vogue. Just keep an eye on the "Le Mans" race. That will be the bell weather event.

#4 Support your local racetrack.
Take the family out this weekend!


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## ScottD961 (Jan 31, 2008)

AFX nut ,I know that the cars are not stock I just meant back in the day they resembled what you could buy off of the showroom floor. Even in the eighties they looked the part. But even then they had there engines in the front and were rear wheel drive. Today they have transverse mounted v6's and are front wheel drive. They should at least have to resemble the product they represent I think. If the monte stock car has a 305 or 350 in it then so should the show room version. If the stock version has a transverse v6 so should the racing version. Otherwise change the name to facsimile racing. At least Chrysler runs fairly close with front v8 and rear wheel drive.
I used to drag race at English town where Scott was killed. Drag cars are constantly evolving , going faster . Unfortunatly they have remained far behind in safety advancements , whereas stockcars & F1 cars have progressed. Even using composite materials to do the job.
At English town they need a , longer run off but that will probably never happen. The neighborhoods nearby complain about the noise and property values have gone up to the point that for them to buy enough property would be cost prohibitive. Don't forget though that years ago there were few if any homes nearby and rail jobs and fuel cars were much slower. 
Well thats my rant Nascar you lost me a long time ago , to bad 'cause I love cars & racin'


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## LeeRoy98 (Jul 8, 2005)

*These are the good old days...*

Had to chime in on this one... for all you "Good Old Days" fans, I would point out that stock cars disappeared from racing in the early 60's if not sooner. Yes, the sheet metal distinguished the cars better but have you been to a dealership lately? When I walk across a parking lot and see cars when I can't see the manufacturer badges... well, I can't tell them apart.
We have great racing, multiple cars on the lead lap at the end of the race, drivers walking away from some horrendous wrecks, and start to finish coverage... in HD! Anyone remember watching my favorite driver winning the 69 Daytona 500 live on TV? Me either... I didn't happen.
Anyone remember the F1 fiasco at Indy??? 6 cars racing... at least NASCAR kept 43 cars on the track. Was there a problem? Of course, and I will eat my hat if Nascar and Goodyear don't resolve the issue before next years Brickyard race. I see this as a by product of the new car. And I fully support the safety innovations in the new car. I don't want to grieve for another driver. Ask Michael McDowell how he feels....

Gary
AKA LeeRoy98
www.marioncountyraceway.com


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## ScottD961 (Jan 31, 2008)

Leeroy98 Agreed ! Nascar rocks on the safety front as far as racing goes. I agree too that the car bodies leave a lot to be desired because all the dealerships have a sea of Jelly beans out there. On the tracks though they are all pretty much the same too except for what brand is painted on. I was following Eropean road racing for awhile . I forget what it is called now but think of it as Europes answer to Stock car racing. The cars have to use the same engine all season long and are not allowed to be replaced or torn down between races. Each manufacturer has to use what they produce.no converting front whell drive to rear etc etc. It was pretty interesting and I really got into it then I started following the drags and well.... there you have it.


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## SplitPoster (May 16, 2006)

When the first gas crisis loomed over all of us, racing was presumed dead. Remember, GM walked away from racing more than once. I also remember during the Gulf Was there was talk about curtailing racing. As long as there is something to race, there will be racing. 

In the 90's NASCAR trailed everybody on the safety front, read what the drivers were saying "off the record" at the time. They may have caught up now, but they trailed IRL, F1 and nearly everyone elses' lead on HANS devices, deformable structures and soft barriers to minimize peak deceleration/g force, even full coverage helmets. That is not to say that they ignored safety all along - there was grave concern about keeping the cars non-airbourne and out of the grandstands in earlier years, but the issues (liability) were different there.

Please don't confuse a lot of people running close together as always being good racing. It may be, but if the cars must run in a pack and it is impossible to break away, if there are numerous caution flags to negate any gained advantage, and if the cars are identical everybody IS going to be close. Big deal. If all the races were 50 lap sprints, then where a driver sits on lap 49 might make a difference. Some of the best races I have ever seen were someone overdriving a not-so-great car in difficult conditions, like steady rain or intermittant showers. Wonder why NASCAR is the only series in the world that doesn't run in the rain on it's road courses? Most of the drivers could handle it, some would excel. Well, there's your answer. 

If you like the show, that's great. It's packaged and marketed to appeal to you. But NASCAR eliminates a lot of the variables from the equation - the hype and schtick don't make up for them.


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

I think media is half of why it sucks now. Nascar overload. Frankly, most of the drivers aren't interesting and have no personality, or life, other than sponsor appearances. The big thing that gets me is how everyone talks about lead lap finishes like they're top fives. Talk about low expectations. Due to the mile and a half oval league thay've made it into, at least 35 car finish on the lead lap every week. BORING.

Rich 43

www.myspace.com/northtexasslotcars


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## rudykizuty (Aug 16, 2007)

ScottD961 said:


> If the stock version has a transverse v6 so should the racing version.


I've only developed a serious affinity for NASCAR racing in the last 4 years. I grew up in a big city within the shadows of the stadium and baseball was my first love for four decades. Not any more. So, while I may not have been paying attention to the evolution in NASCAR, I do understand when sentiments are that it's not what it used to be. With all that said,...........

On the issue of not-so-stock stock cars, and with no disrespect intended toward anyone here..........I cannot imagine ever having gotten interested in NASCAR if they were running a bunch of V6 FWD sedans incapable of speeds generated with the race cars being used today.


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## ScottD961 (Jan 31, 2008)

Rudi I wasn't sugesting that they should run transverse front drive v6's. I just think that the cars should make an attempt at resembling what they came from. Hence the term"Stock Car" . They have just evolved to the point that they all have the same amount of........Sameness


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## rudykizuty (Aug 16, 2007)

ScottD961 said:


> They have just evolved to the point that they all have the same amount of........Sameness


Scott, 
I hear ya. I agree that sameness, particularly when we've been accustomed to variety, can seem boring. Human nature. And maybe this is just crazy thinking coming from one of those "new" NASCAR fans (which I am)........but knowing what we know about the state of the auto industry and it's relationship with "stock car" racing, I don't necessarily see anything wrong with going to a uniformed spec car. 

To me, having a level playing field where equipment specs are concerned makes it more of a "team" sport. The other things required to win races become that much more important, such as 

a) having a shop crew capable of building their cars better than other teams
b) better pit crew performance
c) better driver performance 
d) better strategy calls from the crew chief or driver during an event
e) et cetera, et cetera.....

Maybe it's just that racing is still so new to me, but these are the things that have attracted my interest in the sport. 

PS isn't it the same with slots? Most heats/mains/race events are set up in classes, no? Beyond that, it comes down to testing, tuning, skill with a controller, and sometimes a bit of luck, right? 

Anyway, I'm happy to have discovered racing at this point in my life. I'm sorry to hear that it's lost some of it's magic for some. I know that feeling from my lost love for baseball. I wish everyone could enjoy the ride as much as I am right now :hat:


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## ScottD961 (Jan 31, 2008)

Rudi I agree with a lot of what you are saying actually. I think a uniform spec car can be good but I also think that every manufacturer should be allowed to race the best of what they can build. As long as some form of it is available to the public. I would have loved to see Pontiac field some of there GTO's when they were being built , front V8 rear wheel drive . 
I also don't want to give the impression that I hate stock car racing. I would love to be at the track and see/hear them thunder around the track. I just can't be bothered watching it on the tube anymore. Now Indy and F1 of course I am glued to the set !! I will also watch drag racing and still sneak back to Raceway park in English town NJ every once in a while because I used to race there. I certainly wouldn't knock anyone from watching nascar either. I just wish that it could be a little more interesting/challenging is all. 
I got what you are saying about the slots too but Here at home I have a different approach . Everything is run what ya brung here. Or pick a car out of my stash. ( except for that red Ferrari 250 GTO that I just got from Dragula ,HANDS OFF !!! LOL)
I wish I could remember what they call Eropes version of stock car racing. I used to picjk this mag up at the local grocer and they featured it all the time. Granted they were all foriegn cars but they were basically showroom cars that went racing. No rebuilds or tear downs between races. It was like Nascar but back to there roots. No fresh engines unless they were blown up. It was cool. I would have liked to gone to some of those. Cars had numbers and sponsor decals just like here, safety equipment and what I really liked ,no one was penalized for having bigger or faster engine it was everymaker running the best of what they built. I'll have to see if I can find the mag and let you guys know about . I think if you love Nascar you will go nuts over this !! LOL
( Well maybe not literally)


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## Wizard Of Iz (Sep 8, 2006)

If only NASCAR were listening to their Fans instead of their wallet.

Racing in the '60's was really the "haves" and the "have-nots." 

Somewhere between then and now there's a happy medium that would be insanely popular.

Build the cars out of the showroom sheet metal (convert to RWD and fabricate a roll cage.) No spoilers other than what's on the showroom version.

Let technology catch up with EFI instead of carbs (NASCAR is afraid that the computer's required for EFI will lead to teams adding in a traction control system.)

Oh ... can you imagine the crying. So many of today's drivers think it's their "right" to have a car they can drive full throttle all the way around the track.

That's the difference between racing scale slot cars and wing slot cars.


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## ScottD961 (Jan 31, 2008)

Wizard thats a great idea !


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## SplitPoster (May 16, 2006)

Wiz, you are right on the mark. All cars aren't created and built equal in the first place. That's why the speed cup/ grand am Gt series are great - the Porsches do well at some tracks, the Mustangs or RX 8's do well at others.


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## rudykizuty (Aug 16, 2007)

ScottD961 said:


> Or pick a car out of my stash. ( except for that red Ferrari 250 GTO that I just got from Dragula ,HANDS OFF !!! LOL)


LOL pretty much the same here.....except keep yer hands off my custom LL 07 Jack Daniels car.


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

Wiz, Scott, Ya'll said it. If the fans wanted a spec car class, we would have went to all the IROC races. Look what happened to them. The fact is, with all the heavy fines being poured out for "cheating" because there "might be" an advantage, you might as well let Nascar build all the cars and the teams buy them. You look at it and think, well, there's no way we could race strictly stock cars because each manufacturer is so far apart performance wise, but they wouldn't be for long if those were the rules. Look at what happened in the truck series when it started. Chevy had a good body and Dodge was okay too, but Ford had a boxy body with a flat front nose. The next year, BOOM, enter the truck aero wars. Now they all have Corvette front ends. My point is, if Nascar had said to GM in 1988, "okay, you don't have a legal car for next year, what are you going to do? We need a rear wheel drive two door coupe." GM would had made it. That's how Nascar grew, making the auto companies make a competitive car, not a spec car.

Rich

www.myspace.com/northtexasslotcars


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## ScottD961 (Jan 31, 2008)

Split poster, right on buddy !
Rudi I'd drink with you anytime !
NTX I think you just hit the nail on the head ! Nascar should build them and let the teams buy them , the way things stand now. Interesting post


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## rudykizuty (Aug 16, 2007)

NTxSlotCars said:


> My point is, if Nascar had said to GM in 1988, "okay, you don't have a legal car for next year, what are you going to do? We need a rear wheel drive two door coupe." GM would had made it.
> www.myspace.com/northtexasslotcars


I agree that it might have been possible to work out that way, particularly in 1988. However, if that were today, they may be more likely to rethink their involvement in the sport altogether.


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## rudykizuty (Aug 16, 2007)

ScottD961 said:


> Split poster, right on buddy !
> Rudi I'd drink with you anytime !
> NTX I think you just hit the nail on the head ! Nascar should build them and let the teams buy them , the way things stand now. Interesting post


Thanks, Scott!!....and likewise. Except right now, I have to wait to get home from work before I can have one with ya. Anyway, I'll be thinking of you when I crack open that first one tonight at Miller Time. :hat:

PS I'd drink with any of you guys. You're all the best.


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## ScottD961 (Jan 31, 2008)

Rudi ,Corona with a lime, Killians Red or........? I'll be waitin' ! LOL !


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## LeeRoy98 (Jul 8, 2005)

With all due respect, I lost interest in F1 years ago when the only racing was done to turn one and everything else was pit strategy. Indy racing died with the CART/IRL split and has yet to recover. I did watch one Indy race this year but after the third crash duing a YELLOW flag late in the race I turned it off. 
NASCAR is far from perfect. But I believe that they now get a lot of heat because the product is wildly popular and gets the most publicity. As far as going back to the "stock" days, that is not what the public wants to see. Anyone remember the V6 Busch cars a few years ago? Probably not... they were really boring and sounded like a bunch of hornets! Which is why they are not being run anymore.
I listen to the SIRIUS NASCAR radio channel, (they don't seem to have an F1 or IRL channel for some reason ) and it amazes me how many people complain that the cars are all the same and nothing but IROC cars in one breathe and then complain about the unfair Toyota advantage in the next!!

These ARE the "Good Old Days" to be a racing fan. NASCAR is doing their best to put on the best show in town, Indy racing has finally reunited and has nowhere to go but up, F1 has recognized the flaws in their model and are taking the correct steps... now if someone would resurrect CanAm!

Take a stock bodied sedan, put in a roll cage, and see if you can get it to do sustained speeds approaching 200 MPH... it won't happen. And when it doesn't, people will not come to watch. Like it or not, that is the fact of the industry. And if you could get it to go that fast, how many drivers would you be willing to kill?

I have never seen a boring race (I didn't watch the Indy F1 fiasco), but I have seen some very poor race coverage. And that is where I believe NASCAR needs to flex it's muscle and force the networks to improve. The capability is there, but we watch anyway so why bother?

Put wheels and a motor in it and I will probably watch it race...

I'm done rambling for a while,

Gary
AKA LeeRoy98
www.marioncountyraceway.com


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## ScottD961 (Jan 31, 2008)

I dunno I wouldn't find it boring at all if every manufacturer could only run the best of what each one made. Be it v6 v8 or whatever.Who says it has to go 200 mph anyway? As for them all being the same......uh yah they are except for the paint !


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## A/FX Nut (May 28, 2004)

My brother talked to one of the people we camp next to at the August Michigan race. He and his daughter went to the Brickyard 400 this year. He wiped the sweat from his head and it turned his white rag black with rubber dust. His wife threw the rag away.

He didn't like the race either, plus he came from Canada on a travel bus. Randy.


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

I think the best show in racing is still the Friday and Saturday night feature races at the local oval track or drag strip. NASCAR is okay, neither significantly better nor worse than any of the other big ticket mass market racing venues. It's McRacing for the masses who are more into the "celebrity" and product endorsement part of the show and rather less involved with the technology or the racing. I think NASCAR would be more interesting if the cars had to use the real car's body panels, perhaps enhanced with spoilers and wings. What's under the hood, things you can't see, are less important. I'd also like to see all races reduced to 250 miles - maximum. However, you can't argue with success, and NASCAR is extremely successful.


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## ScottD961 (Jan 31, 2008)

AFXToo I'm with you buddy !


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

I think Toyotas dominance in Nascar has less to do with it's technology, and more to do with the dominance of one driver,..... A.J. Almendinger, uh, I mean, Kyle Busch. I mean, how many races in all three series has he won this year? Over half the field in the truck series last year was Toyotas, and guess what? Chevy won the championship. Gibbs was and is a well developed racing organization. It's no surprize that they are winning in Nationwide. They were before the switch. Kyle is leading the points in Sprint for now, but I wonder how ripped off the rebel is going to feel when his points lead is erased for the chase. Will he stay motivated, or will it turn into the Jeff and Jimmy show? AAAAhhh the smell of competition! Or is that Goodyear tire dust?

Rich

www.myspace.com/northtexasslotcars


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## SplitPoster (May 16, 2006)

_Take a stock bodied *sedan*, put in a roll cage, and see if you can get it to do sustained speeds approaching 200 MPH... it won't happen._

Ol' Lee Roy, you hit the nail on the head. The silhouette cars don't represent performance cars at all. There aren't performance street versions of the Winston/Nextel/Sprint cup silhouette cars...... nothing close. No connection whatsover, it's all contrived and de-teched. No AAR, no SS, no Talladega coupe or Superbird wing. Nobody took a mundane sedan and showed what it was capable of after extensive modification. (Certainly you could get a 3.5 L street-based modified car to run sustained speeds well above 150, you just wouldn't want to trust the unibody to do the right thing in a 20 car pileup). No homologation, just marketing fees. Nothing but paint and stickers on heavy, highly developed low tech race chassis. I don't imagine anybody will ever put a stock unibody on a superspeedway running close quarters at 200mph ever again anyway, but 5 lug wheels, OHV's and carbs make sense on top tier race cars?

You want to see relatively stock cars running above 150 (on the fast tracks anyway)? Watch the previously mentioned series or even an amateur SCCA T1 or American sedan race. You want pure excitement? Watch the rally cars in the "X games" format - doubt they get over 70mph.

I don't think anybody has a problem with someone who likes the show. I mean, I understand "American Idol" is a great show too, I just don't care to watch it. My feeling about the current state of "stock car racing" is more bitter disappointment, given where it came from and all that was put into it to grow it. This is from a guy who stood in line to meet Davey Allison, and treasure the memory. I definitely think the current state of affairs falls far short of being the pinnacle of "all there is." Remember, Dale Sr's dream was to retire from Nascar and win the 24 hours of Le Mans driving a Corvette. There is so much more out there, small time to international, amateur and pro.


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## tjettim (Nov 29, 2005)

I have realy been into AMA Superbike racing this year.Now I hear
AMA has sold it's road racing venue to Nascar.The top class will
be 600 fours,675 triples,and 1200 pushrod buells for 2009. Funny,
since Buell anounced all engines in 2009 would be Rotax built.To
Make it worse all engines are limited to 140 HP.The only other
class they are keeping is 1000 supersport.I can see the "Bike of
tommorrow" already.A Harley Low rider with a XR750 rear fender.


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## rudykizuty (Aug 16, 2007)

LeeRoy98 said:


> I listen to the SIRIUS NASCAR radio channel, (they don't seem to have an F1 or IRL channel for some reason )www.marioncountyraceway.com


I miss having NASCAR on XM. IRL is on XM now, but I don't listen or watch. I was going to try watching, but changed my mind after the kitten fight. 

I've looked at a few F1 races recently as a curiosity and enjoyed it.


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

I saw the Canadian version of Nascar a few years ago. CASCAR was it's real name. They were running REAL intrepid bodies, four doors and all, same with the Tauruses. Same body lines as stock. Chevy was running the Monte Carlo with the brick nose. It was neat as heck to me, just because the bodies were actually stock. The next season I think they changed it. I'm not sure if they are still running. 
Pontiac was running a stock looking body until 94.
















Rusty Wallace won 10 races in 93 with a Pontiac, but switched to Ford because they thought they were at a downforce disadvantage with the Pontiac. In the off season, the Pontiac teams were crying to change the body because of the perceived disadvantage. Nascar gave in and added length to the nose and the deck lid. The result looked stupid. :freak:








It looked like a Corvette/El Camino. After Kyle Petty sitting on the pole at Daytona and dominating the race at Talledega in 93(but not winning either), the Pontiacs sucked at Daytona in 94. The bodies, although having more downforce, weren't balanced good for either the big or intermediate tracks. Even Felix Sabates admitted,"We may have shot ourselves in the foot by changing what we had." 
In 96, Pontiac came out with a new body that had Ford and Chevy crying foul. Pontiac had a great aerodynamic idea. Since the center of the hood didn't really create any useful downforce(only drag) at high speeds, why not just lower the center of the trunk? They did, and the result was a lowered spoiler in the center, because the height requirement was off the surface of the trunk lid. 








I thought it was genius! They found a loop in Nascars own rules, and were mass producing the idea. Ford AND Chevy were furious about it, crying to Nascar that Pontiac had an advantage.
Now Chevy had brought it's perfect, tear shaped Monte Carlo back in 94. The result was Daytona wins in 94, 95, 97, and 98. Ford won in 96 with a, once again, pointed nosed Tbird. In '99 Chevy redesigned the Monte Carlo and brought it to Daytona. It was a brick. The front of the nose was flatter, and contrary to Pontiacs innovation, the center of the hood was _raised._ Way too much drag to compete at Daytona. Ford won six races before Nascar gave in to Chevys crying and let them alter the body. My thought was, Why did you design a sucky car?
Believe it or not, I said all that to say this. I know Nascar just got tired of all the whining, but I still liked it when the manufacturers were responsible for what was out there on the track. Let the manufacturers build the bodies, it's much more exciting, even if you have to wait a few years for stories to develop.

Rich

www.myspace.com/northtexasslotcars:thumbsup:

Áll that innovation still doesn't beat this....


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

Yeah, it would be nice if they resembled the real thing. I'm not advocating running assembly line chassis or anything like that, just skin it to look like the real model it is supposed to represent. When I look at old NASCAR film, even in the early 90s, I could distinguish what make, model, and model year the car was. Today, it's impossible to tell whether the car is supposed to be a Camry or the Starship Enterprise. 

Oh well, a race is still a race, and at tracks like Martinsville, Darlington, Richmond, and of course Bristol they still put on a pretty good show. Homestead, KC, Vegas, Texas, Chicago, Indy, and California are about as exciting as a Spam Jelly sandwich on Wonderbread.


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## Wizard Of Iz (Sep 8, 2006)

NTxSlotCars said:


> "..... Believe it or not, I said all that to say this. I know Nascar just got tired of all the whining, but I still liked it when the manufacturers were responsible for what was out there on the track. Let the manufacturers build the bodies, it's much more exciting, even if you have to wait a few years for stories to develop.
> 
> Rich:freak:
> 
> www.myspace.com/northtexasslotcars:thumbsup:



And if NASCAR got out of the body modification business they wouldn't have to listen to any whining. 

As a couple of us have said, put the factory sheet metal over a modern race chassis. Then if the Toyota guys don't like the way the Camry handles, they can go complain to Toyota. If Roush doesn't like the way the Fusion handles, he can go complain to Ford. If Jeffy doesn't like the way the Impala handles, he can go complain to whoever ends up owning Chevrolet.

My wife drives a '07 Charger R/T. It has *nothing* in common appearance-wise with what Kasey Kahne drives.



Some of the best races I've ever seen were in the slower classes where the cars were just evenly matched. If all of racing was just about speed ---- we'd all be racing Group 7 slot cars.


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## 1976Cordoba (Sep 20, 2000)

The Australian V8 Supercar Series (shown on Speed in the winter when NASCAR is off for 2 weeks) has the right idea -- stock bodied Ford Falcons and Holden (GM) Commodores powered by V8s and racing on road courses.








Standing starts too - _*AWESOME!*_

NASCAR even puts the cat to sleep (not terribly difficult, I know, but still):









My suggestion for NASCAR - stock bodies with tube-frame chassis per normal. Little mini-spoilers. Let the drivers and teams figure out how to make them run.


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## tjettim (Nov 29, 2005)

If Nascar realy wants close racing, they need to equalize the
drivers,just pick one and clone him 43 times.


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

*update*

I updated #77 with some pics following Dobas post. Great pics Doba!! 
I since found that *CASCAR* is still running, although not _completely _stock, it still looks better than what we're stuck watching. Here's thier _*Dodge Charger*_!!!








That would look good in a Tyco.

Rich

www.myspace.com/northtexasslotcars :thumbsup:


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## SplitPoster (May 16, 2006)

rudykizuty said:


> I've looked at a few F1 races recently as a curiosity and enjoyed it.


I've enjoyed F1 this year as well, even my son will watch - he is a Massa fan, thanks to a friend who came from Brazil. 

I think an F1 start and the first lap are about as exciting as it gets, and getting through them are supremely dependent on driver skill and reflexes . F1 has done a good bit to try to equalize competition - the tire rule (having to use both hard and soft compounds during a race) is kinda goofy. But it makes sense that they require motors to last through two events, and the 19,000 rpm rev limiter and eliminating traction control do more to showcase a driver's ability. With all that, it really amazes me that, with all their resources, Toyota and Honda have struggled so much with their own chassis. 

All that hp out of 2.5 normally aspirated liters, 4v per cylinder, about 150 cubic inches. 

I do wish Nascar would require stock body profiles and dimensions- the original design would make a difference.


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## LeeRoy98 (Jul 8, 2005)

*Thanks to all!*

I just wanted to point out that 80+ replies to this topic were all well written and there was no flaming, etc.
I disagree with some... partially agree with others... and probably don't have many that totally agree with me. 
But this was a lively but courteous discussion.

Thanks to all,
Gary
AKA LeeRoy98
www.marioncountyraceway.com


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## ScottD961 (Jan 31, 2008)

Yes Leeroy it has been a fun topic ! Thanks everybody


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## rudykizuty (Aug 16, 2007)

Agreed......tis why I like hanging around here with yooz guys (Ooops, I think my South Philly is showing)


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

This is still a cool thread.


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