# Scalpel vs. BRP 4 cell stock...no insults please just facts



## Tshirt Man (Oct 21, 2002)

Let's keep it based on facts no 6 cell vs 4 cell.


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## Reid H. (Jan 9, 2008)

We Run 4 Cell 2/3 Matched Or Unmatched Cells With The Stk. 300 Motor. We Are Only Two To Three Laps Off Of The T/c Cars And Only About 1 To 1 1/2 Seconds A Lap Off Of Them. We Turn Left And Right.


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## BudBartos (Jan 1, 1970)

We do the same here but We use the associated super 370 motor on 4 cell TSR 1500 cells. This Year is mostly oval We run 5 min the 1/10th run 4 so all we can compare are lap times. The Mod 1/10th cars turn like 3.3 second laps the BRP Pro stock that is with brushless motor turn around 3.8 second laps.

When We were running lots of road racing with the older V2 car We would have been within a lap of the fastest TC stock TC that is they never ran mod.

2 years ago RC driver did a 3 part test with the Micro RS4 and X ray 1/18th
they did a box stock test, slight mod test and full blowen mod test. The BRP SC18V2 won all levels of testing!! They ran 3 different drivers with all cars and looked at lap times.

Another note We have never run against a Scalpel here in Oh. I have never seen one run. I did have one, built it just to see what it was about it had alot of things wrong so I sold it right away.


There are several guys on here that raced against them at the 1/18th nats in CT so they know better. But I think they said none of the scalpels were stock.
For those that don't know I own BRP I design and make the cars in the USA!!!! not that made in the USA matters anymore.


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## Reid H. (Jan 9, 2008)

Made In The U.s. Does Still Matter. What Do You Mean None Of The Scalpels Were Stk.? I Know Wesley Dennis And Run With Him Every Weekend, Which Means Nothing And He Said That The Scalpels Were Pretty Competitive At The Nats. Is He Telling The Truth. We Have Been Kicking His Tale At Trd Most Weeks, Lol. Good Guy And We Have A Blast Everyweekend. Most Guys Down Here Run Front Home Made Bumpers And Side Nerf Bars To Protect The Rear Axle From Damage, So Far I Haven't Done This Due To Weight And Have Hit A Ton On Several Occasions And Knock On Wood Haven't Broke Anything. The Scalpel Is More Or Less A 12th Scale Car, With Quite A Few Adjustments And Has Impressed Me With Performance And Looks. Just My .002 Cents Worth..


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## martian 710 (Jan 22, 2004)

The top Scalpel at the Nats in the stock class was 2 laps down to the BRP's and top Scalpel in the open class was 3 laps down to the BRP's.


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## TangTester (Oct 7, 2001)

How many times have you broken a part on the Scalpel chassis? 

Besides Bud, I can say I have run more laps with an 18th scale then anyone. I can't remember the last time I broke anything on the chassis.


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## Bracket Bob (Jan 11, 2008)

so the answer is NO! no one has compared the two with same motor, same gear, same batterys or same tires. iam with t-shirt man send one for testing we would love to see the results. seems everytime the question is asked we get everything but what was asked! SO I WILL ASK IT THIS WAY! HAS THE BRP AND SCALPEL EVER BEEN TESTED WITH SAME MOTOR, GEARING, BODY, BATTERYS AND TIRES? IF SO WHAT WERE THE RESULTS? ALSO WHATS THE PRO'S AND CON'S ON BOTH? PLEASE I ASKED A STRAIGHT FORWARD QUESTION, PLEASE GIVE A STRAIGHT FORWARD ANSWER!


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## martian 710 (Jan 22, 2004)

The stock class at the micro-nats was with hand-out associated super 370 motors. That's probably as close as you can you can get with them. I know all the BRP's were stock mid-motor racer kit's with no aftermarket upgrades.( I forgot the BRP's were using Scalpel pinions and spurs) So they did have the same motor and gears. We have found with the super 370 motor you have to drill the scalpel pinions for a set screw or they will spin loose on the shaft. I have heard of some scalpel drivers converting the cars so they can run BRP tires which will last a lot longer.


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## Tshirt Man (Oct 21, 2002)

Now that was the best answer to date. Thank you 710. Please explain converting the car to run the brp tires?


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## sg1 (Apr 2, 2003)

I don't remember seeing any scalpel cars with BRP tires at the Nats.. but I'm sure 710 or Bud would be able to shed some light on how you can get them to fit a scalpel. I tried a scalpel for a few laps at the Nats during a practice run. The gentleman next to me asked to try a BRP so we switched controllers. The one thing I noticed was the corner speed. The car had much more scrub in the corners. It may have been his set up, I don't know for sure. He said the BRP had more high speed stearing and felt faster in the corners. In a straight line we were the same (in stock). 
Like Bud said, there are no scalpel cars in our area. We can't do a direct comparison. I did get to check out the stock scalpel Bud had, but thought the chassis flex may kill the way the car handles. 
Conclusion... i think you can get just about any car to run well as long as you can make it feel comfortable for you to drive. I never owned a scalpel, so I don't know the potential of it.
Wayne


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## K-5 CAPER (Sep 30, 2006)

Just a side note, those who do not know SG1, not only is he 18 scale mod national champ but also ran a couple "A" mains in 12th scale in November at U.S. indoor champs so this guy is very fast and knows alot about chassis set-up.


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## Reid H. (Jan 9, 2008)

as i said in the post before i haven't broken a single part on my scalpel yet, knock on wood. it's just personal preference. i my self like the scalpel because it is tunable out the a#$ and it looks more realistic, and i know looks don't win races, but like i said it just boils down to what someone likes. we had a guy come in with a brp one night and it really didn;t impress me much looks or performance wise but this guy i'm sure didn't have it dialed in like you guys would have.


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## Tshirt Man (Oct 21, 2002)

I think Bud is sending one to our home track for a trial shakedown. I can't wait. Some excellent info being broadcast accross the web! Thanks guys!


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## Micro_Racer (Mar 27, 2002)

To date the only side by side comparison I have been involved with was the R/C Madness On Road Nationals. It had two classes - Pan Car Stock and Pan Car Open. 

Lets first start with me the driver. I am an average local guy who has no sponsors. Everything I used at the race I payed for (including the green BRP shirt!). This was my first race that was not part of the Northern Ohio BRP points series, it was also my first time to the R/C Madness track. And to be honest the first road track I have raced on in over a year (our series points races are oval). I had an opportunity to talk to some of the local guys running Scalpels, everyone was really cool. I do not know what their set-up was, so if you ran this race with a Scalpel - please post your set-up.

I only ran the Pan Car Stock Class - my set up:
Out of the Box BRP SC-18V2M Racer Kit (no additional after market parts)
Spektrum Micro receiver w/ Airtronics M8
Tekin B1 ESC
Futaba 9602 servo
Front Tires - BRP 2x Orange (came with kit)
Front springs - BRP Silver (soft) (came with kit)
Rear Tires - BRP Blue (soft) - Kit came with purple - extra $10.00 for Blue
Team Scream 1500 cells
Body - BRP COT (came with kit) - unpainted body - extra for paint and decals $6.60
Motor - Hand out 370
Gears - Scalpel spur 49, and Scalpel pinion 13 - extra BRP full set Scalpel spur and pinion drilled out for set screw w/ a few set screws $15.00

So for Pan Car Stock Class - the motor - gears - and I think everyone was running Team Scream Cells - were equal

The A Main
(out of 10)
4 were Scalpel's - 6 were BRP's
Best Scalpel finished 3rd two laps behind 1st and 2nd
1st - BRP
2nd - BRP
3rd - Scalpel
4th - BRP
5th - BRP
6th - BRP
7th - Scalpel
8th - BRP
9th - Scalpel
10th - Scalpel

I realize this is one race, but that is the data. 

So for me who finished 8th, running my BRP at a new track, not turining right in a long time, and not having expierence at a big race event. I think my box stock BRP was great! 

Reid H - come on out to Ohio and race with the BRP crew!


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## K-5 CAPER (Sep 30, 2006)

Just to throw it out there, wouldn't a race or races be interesting outside of the upper northeast, between BRP and Scalpel say 1 road 1 oval call it the World Series of 18th Scale get points for both and see what happens?? Anyone care to run with this thought???


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## BudBartos (Jan 1, 1970)

Here are some pictures of a SC18V2M I have listed on ebay some were asking for pictures on another thread :thumbsup: 



http://cgi.ebay.com/1-18th-BRP-SC18V2M-car-KIT-HPI-X-ray-Scalpel-BRP_W0QQitemZ370012635441QQihZ024QQcategoryZ34063QQcmdZViewItem

There is also a assembled version in our ebay store !!!!


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## martian 710 (Jan 22, 2004)

I, like Micro, am just an average racer. With no sponsors. I just got into BRP cars this past spring. The Micro-Nats was my first ever big race and first trip to R/C Madness(I can't wait to go back next year). It was my 1st onroad race with a BRP and 1st onroad race of any kind since last winter. My car was a stock racer kit with almost the same set up as Micro's except I ran the stock purple rear tires, a GTX speedo, and BRP GTP body. I placed 5th in the Stock A-main. I didn't do anything to the car all weekend but clean, lube it, and dope the tires(niftec). In the Open class I ran the same set-up with a mamba 6800. The 6800 was just too much motor for the low bite at the track. For the main I set all the esc settings to minimum and added 3 teeth to the pinion to tame it down as much as possible. Also switched to Paragon traction compound (Thanks SG1) It wasn't good but at least I could get it a round the track and keep out of the faster drivers way. I finished 6th in the Open A-main. I have 8 BRP cars now. My kids (son 7 and daughter 11) and I raced 5 cars in the BRP summer series and this winter we've been running 3 or 4 at each race and I have yet to replace any broken BRP part. (My 7 year old has trashed speedos, servo's, and recievers and a few bodie's) He's raced a BRP since he was 3 (SC18v1). I'm having the most fun I ever had racing with these little cars. I just wish we had more onroad races for them locally. :thumbsup: Brett


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## Hangtime (Jan 2, 2007)

I'm impressed with BRP because of its handling, proven design, tires choices, body choices, low cost, customer service. They're very popular in this area. Any parts I need are available at the track. When I did order one it was on my doorstep the next day. I forgot durabilty. Very little to do. I spend my free time polishing the aluminum.


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## Reid H. (Jan 9, 2008)

Looks Pretty Cool Guys. I Like The Other Guys Idea About Running An Oval And An On Road Event Combined. Sounds Interesting, Get Bud To Orginize It. As Far As Me Coming To Ohio I Would Love To, Better Yet Come On Down To N.c. (trd) We Can Run On Road And Tear It Down And Run Oval In The Same Day. Oval Is Flat And The Same Size As The Track At The Snowbirds. One Place, One Two Tracks.


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## sg1 (Apr 2, 2003)

Maybe we can find a track close to a half way point.


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## martian 710 (Jan 22, 2004)

I know it's not half way but Steel City Hobbies in Pittsburgh, Pa is a neutral track. The track is brand new, snowbirds+ sized and they race both oval and onroad every Saturday. 3 cars make a class.There are other tracks that race oval or onroad on Sundays fairly close if anyone wanted to make it a 2 race day trip. I don't know if there are other tracks further south that would work or not but it sounds like it could be a fun event.


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## Mike Clark (Apr 28, 2007)

*Brp Sc182m*

BRP Car,
Here is my car it's bone stock as yes Zoom the front end has camber in it 3 degrees left, 2.5 right with tire stagger and roll out.

No ball bearings!


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## rumble035 (Jan 7, 2008)

Mike are those Batts a Lipo batterys? 2 cells= 7.2 Volts. If so how many MAH are they?


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## Micro_Racer (Mar 27, 2002)

Nice BRP Mike!


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## Bracket Bob (Jan 11, 2008)

question for the brp guys. why does everyone run the parma s16 d motor? being a slot car racer myself i was just wandering. is it due to the many different arms they make for it or the fact that you can tweak and twist the arms and not be detected? lol (unless you know what to look for!) hmmmmmmmmmmm i know i have a few that i run on a 1/24th scale slotcar dragstrip that have run up to 58 mph in a 120 gram car in just under .989 seconds. but that was on 16.5 volts as well.


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## rumble035 (Jan 7, 2008)

Bracket Bob I would love to know how you did that with a 16d Motor. PM me Detal's Please!!


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## TangTester (Oct 7, 2001)

We are starting to go away from the slot car motors. With the weight of the car and only on 7.2 volt we were burning motors up.


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## Bill Weaver (Jan 16, 2006)

Reid H. said:


> ... and it looks more realistic,


than what


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## BudBartos (Jan 1, 1970)

Weaver.. Those BRP cars look real :thumbsup:


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## K-5 CAPER (Sep 30, 2006)

Real sweet that is I want you to do a pepsi car for me Mr Weaver


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## OrangeRacer (May 15, 2003)

Nice!!!


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## Mike Clark (Apr 28, 2007)

Hey Tang,
Why are you burning up motors?


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## TangTester (Oct 7, 2001)

The weight of the car and that you are only on 7.2 volts. The motors were never made to handle that load. I would only burn one maybe once a year. There would be aleast one or two a race day. The 370 motor runs good, and I haven't seen one burn up yet. 

I think that you guys run on a short track, and are on and off the gas aleast twice per lap you may not be having the same problem. Some of the track we have run at, we can be full throttle the whole 5 min race. The motor will warm up pretty under those conditions.
Tang


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## Mike Clark (Apr 28, 2007)

Ya, thats what I thought a heating problem. There not much area for disapation with the 16D. Did you try a motor heat sink? 

I know the 370 would make the BRP more competetive when running with other makes. We voted down the conversion for our oval last year we get enough speed out of the 16D.

However if I go outside and race on road corses this year 
I'll upgrade one chassis for the big motors, i guess.


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