# Riggen Limited Edition



## riggenracer (Jul 3, 2008)

http://www.riggenho.com/evw.htm

Check out new RiggenHO "East meets West" Limited Edition. The bodies were painted by Jairus Watson and "Noose" - tooo cool stuff!

Thanks,

TF


----------



## RiderZ (Feb 19, 2007)

*!!!*

Very nice paint work.I really need to add some Riggens to my collection.:thumbsup:


----------



## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

Ditto....I never pull the trigger for some reason.


----------



## videojimmy (Jan 12, 2006)

Bill Hall said:


> Ditto....I never pull the trigger for some reason.


could it be because they want 225 bucks for a pair? 
I bought a 6 of them when they first came out, again.... 
none of them ran that great, not nearly as well as the original riggen I had did. 

The only way I could consider buying another car from Riggen, is if they took back the cars I bought and gave me store credit. However, I do buy their pick up systems for my customs, they're first rate. I also bought their wheelie truck, that's runs pretty well... as any 200 dollar slot car should. 

Every collection shoukld have a few, but do yourself a favor... if yu;re going to drop big money, buy original


----------



## grungerockjeepe (Jan 8, 2007)

you dont need to drop big money on a Riggen. They make a 'fun kit' -- http://riggenho.com/funkit.htm-- which is $25. You supply the motor and the body and youre rollin. That leaves your options open to build it however you want. 

VJ--the other thing to consider is what parts you filled the chassis with. If you stick to the original riggen repro front wiper assembly, thats a mistake. They dont handle NEARLY as well as the AJs part made for the track cleaners, etc that they adapt to the chassis. Also, if you dont have a donor car, pop for that green wire motor and Tomy super G+ gearing. Thats what worked for me.


----------



## martybauer31 (Jan 27, 2004)

Hey VJ, it's not $225 my man, it's $295..... WOW!!!!!!!!!!!! I think i'd be better off finding an original one, or maybe even 2 for that price.

They do look very cool but I would think something like that with a custom painted body would be more in the $50-60 range. Why do people think putting the word "limited" means that they can overcharge? I have some gorgeous hand painted lexan bodies from someone in AZ that cost me $35 and they compete with the stuff that is pictured there.

Like I say, they look very nice, but that price is insane, do the cars run well? Maybe I will pick up a fun kit...


----------



## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

Lemmee see if I got this straight... $295 fer a pair of Riggens...

or keeping my "important pair" if Robi found out I dropped 300 hun on some brass tanks with crispy egg shell bodies ...

LMAO....no contest ....PASS!


----------



## 1scalevolvo (Feb 5, 2004)

*36 years later, I still Kick myself !!*

In 1972 at the age of 16 I took the D train to Church Ave & went to a store (Times Square Stores I think ) that had Riggens on sale for $ 2.99 ! I only bought one - a Metallic green Firebird that I still have.They had VW Beetles & Hot Rods too I remember.Too bad I did not buy more at that price !


Neal:dude:


:thumbsup: Its good to know that parts are still available !


----------



## riggenracer (Jul 3, 2008)

OK guy, so you think 300 for a pair of hand-built cars is too much. The parts list is on to websit. Price 'em out. Do your homework with the painters and co-ordinate that. Get the chassis CNC modified to original drop-motor specs. Go though the motors and pitch out 10%. Hang all the parts. Test run. Figure out what needs to be tweeked. Trim and mount the bodies without screwing anything up. 

I can't guarantee that they will run on your track with your controller. But when they leave my workbench, they are right on my Bowman roadcourse with a Difalco - no exceptions.

Now - add up all the man hours. Minimum wage Burger Barn pays better. 

Alot of magnate racers have no problem paying Scale Auto $125 for a 910 roller. Then you have to put a body on it. $#!t, I got $175 each in parts for competitive ceramic mods and I still have to put them together and get bodies. 

Seriously, figure out what it takes to put a run together and the business risk involved.
Write us your proposal on how you plan to deliver the quality for 30 to 40 percent less and still have some $$ for your effort. This is not slot car charity. 

The last IROC Limited Edition sold out in 36 hours. This one is not much past that. There are six remaining today. There may be only a few left by this week end.

TF


----------



## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

Uhhhhhhhhh....

Didnt say I didnt want too...

said I couldnt.


----------



## riggenracer (Jul 3, 2008)

*Building for fun and NO profit*

Bill,

My comments are not directed at you specifically.  Value is what the seller and buyer agree to exchange $$ on. The brass collector market is *VERY* small. We are not targeting for mass appeal.

I wouldn't mind buying myself a $300 air rifle for Christmas this year. But given the current economic climate, my wife would use it to shoot my 'pair' off. The rifle _IS_ worth $300 to someone, just not to me this year. My point is to some other comments, please don't suggest that the work is not worth the asking price. 

Please consider that there are no less than six people that contributed to this LE. Let's just say you want to earn $15 an hour. If an exact record of every minute that was sent on this projects was kept, retail would be close to $200 a car. One _might_ sell three cars at that rate. You have to love it to work for less than a 'minimum' wage.

As an example of the concern we take for the finished product, consider the Oscar guide flag modification on the previous IROC LE. The standard factory Oscar guide plate has a molded on plastic guide pin. This pin is prone to break off well in advance of the wipers wearing out. The decision was made to remove the plastic pin and add a steel pin out of the box. For a customer to pay 125+ for a car and then have the pin go south within the first hour of track time does little to build the brand. 

Having built Riggens to about every configuration I can think of, several things are worth noting. The Oscar plate works best as a pickup system. A Tyco Pro Type One flag is the next best. The factory original and the reproduction flag is third. For the individual that needs to, a worn out Oscar can be rebuilt with a steel pin and Tyco wipers. It takes some patience, but I have the recipe.

Riggens like weight. That is why we build with the brass indi fronts, the brass 'mushroom keeper' cap, and added lead weight. One of the most frustrating things with the basic kit and no additional tweeking is that the cars understeer. 

You have to keep the front end planted. Then, depending on your track surface, rear tire selection fine turns the amount of oversteer to allow just enough fishtail in the corners. 

Back to the pickup system. Oscar plates are a finite quantity. Nearly all that we know of are gone. Factory original flags are few. Tyco Pro Type One flags are fewer. So we are left with a problem. 

We are investigating some sort of CNC delrin plate like the Oscar. But think about that one for a minute. After the plate is done, then the pin and wipers would have to be hand mounted. Cutting the wipers alone would require some sort of punch or jig to get them consistant. Oh, and the shunt wires. :freak: At the current levels of demand, that item could run $20 when R&D time etc, etc, etc is considered. A prototype has been fabricated for testing.

Another alternative is to have the Tyco flag re-cast. There is a low production quantity process that may yield serviceable flags for, say, $5 each for the bare unit. Now _that_ is do-able. Tyco wipers are still available in quantities to satisfy the small market for several more years. But since we all have day jobs, it may take into the middle of next year to put this into action and get any good results.

All this said, our next project is going to be something that may yield a tuned chassis with a painted and mounted lexan at a target price of 89.95. It will not have the drop-motor chassis but will have the rear axle bushings. It will probably be an 8 to 12 car run. 

After that, for Spring 2009 we are planning a "Thingie" Edition. Check out the work that Watson and Noose have done on 1/24th scale and then imagine that shrunk to HO scale. They have thread on Slot Blog under the Body Paint heading. If you are interested in what our prototype looks like, email me at [email protected] and I'll send a photo. 

Now, if ANYONE knows where I can get a small bucket full of Tyco Pro Type One drop-arm guide flags... .:wave:

TF


----------



## grungerockjeepe (Jan 8, 2007)

Racer makes some good points here. And RR, if youre interested I have a few suggestions for what I think would make for the perfect new guide flag setup. PM me if youd like to hear my thoughts. Im not a hardcore racer or anything but I do have some feedback and ideas based on my experiences with the Riggens I own as well as a few other slots.


----------



## ScottD961 (Jan 31, 2008)

videojimmy said:


> could it be because they want 225 bucks for a pair?
> I bought a 6 of them when they first came out, again....
> none of them ran that great, not nearly as well as the original riggen I had did.
> 
> ...


 VJ hit the nail on the head here , the original ones are awesome $200.00 for a slot car? Maybe if I was getting a must have t jet or Afx ( MAYBE )


----------



## ScottD961 (Jan 31, 2008)

martybauer31 said:


> Hey VJ, it's not $225 my man, it's $295..... WOW!!!!!!!!!!!! I think i'd be better off finding an original one, or maybe even 2 for that price.
> 
> They do look very cool but I would think something like that with a custom painted body would be more in the $50-60 range. Why do people think putting the word "limited" means that they can overcharge? I have some gorgeous hand painted lexan bodies from someone in AZ that cost me $35 and they compete with the stuff that is pictured there.
> 
> Like I say, they look very nice, but that price is insane, do the cars run well? Maybe I will pick up a fun kit...


Exactly Marty ! :thumbsup:


----------



## ScottD961 (Jan 31, 2008)

Bill Hall said:


> Lemmee see if I got this straight... $295 fer a pair of Riggens...
> 
> or keeping my "important pair" if Robi found out I dropped 300 hun on some brass tanks with crispy egg shell bodies ...
> 
> LMAO....no contest ....PASS!


LOL Bill you had me cracking up on this one. I don't have a Tm but everything you said is echoed here. They do look nice though , no doubt about that:wave:


----------



## ScottD961 (Jan 31, 2008)

a lot of time and effort went into them for sure , and they are a labor of love to boot. Looks like a real nice job was done on them.


----------



## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

*Sour grapes is all*



riggenracer said:


> big snip*......
> 
> Now - add up all the man hours. Minimum wage Burger Barn pays better.
> 
> TF


My bad TF! My comments are generally tongue in cheek, which often includes the full Nike in the piehole. In no way did I intend to disparage your fine product, it's quality, or your craftsmanship. 

Certainly I can understand the dollar/time equation as it relates to our beloved hobby. Personally, I'd be quite happy to get Burger Barn wages for my T-jet restorations. 

I rekon it's not that work or time has no value, but that the dollar we trade it around with has no worth. It is truly sad when half a wheelbarrow load of money only buys ya two cool slotcars.


----------



## riggenracer (Jul 3, 2008)

*Burger Barn*

Bill,

Thanks for making it plane what you said. RiggenHO believes they offer the serious collector, racer, and hobbiest a strong value in a semi-custom slotcar. As you know from trying to produce a production run, each car is a little different. :freak:

I can't always get all the cars to run exactly the same. Most of those issues are due to relative chassis alignments. But one stays with it till a 'problem child' seems to show results. 

That said, I would not recommend a Riggen, original or reproduction, to a newbie. In any shape or form, running, feeding, and caring for these cars requires a different view - and in a way, a commitment. T-Jets and A/FX are easier to keep up than these critters.

For me, any Riggen I have has a 'sweet spot' that is a moving target. Any one chassis item that wears changes the equation. You are always chasing your tail keeping the 'tune'. I think that's why some get so put out with the platform. 

In my collection, I try to have examples of every major HO chassis concept - T-Jets to Scale Auto Poly Mods. I have to say that when I want to really get some track-time satisfaction, I reach for a Riggen. It may not be the fastest, but I think they are the sexiest.

TF


----------



## martybauer31 (Jan 27, 2004)

I realize this is directed right at me so I will respond... You probably shouldn't be taking this as personally as you are, unfortunately when you offer up your wares for the public eye, you're going to get all kinds of opinions. That being said, it was just one guys opinion that these are priced very high. 

I get that there is a small section of folks who want these and that's great, I certainly spend money on things that others wouldn't as well, *cough* controllers *cough*.

Like I said, they looked like fun, and I might actually be interested in getting a fun kit, if you'll sell me one at this point.  Apologies if you thought it was personal, I guess it does look like it could be, I understand you need to get paid for the effort and I am glad that they are selling well, they really are very cool looking.

And yes, I have a Scale Auto roller as well, we race them all the time up here. And I guarantee you that if our next series had a Riggen Special Edition class, I would be buying one of those as well. 

Take care,

Marty



riggenracer said:


> OK guy, so you think 300 for a pair of hand-built cars is too much. The parts list is on to websit. Price 'em out. Do your homework with the painters and co-ordinate that. Get the chassis CNC modified to original drop-motor specs. Go though the motors and pitch out 10%. Hang all the parts. Test run. Figure out what needs to be tweeked. Trim and mount the bodies without screwing anything up.
> 
> I can't guarantee that they will run on your track with your controller. But when they leave my workbench, they are right on my Bowman roadcourse with a Difalco - no exceptions.
> 
> ...


----------



## riggenracer (Jul 3, 2008)

*#Cough# Controllers #Cough#*

Marty,

A big thanks for clearing up your observations. Yep, controllers... . I have two Difalcos and want more. Value is what we are willing to trade $$ for.

Are Scale Auto rear tires worth $13 when Wizzard's can be had for $10? When I get a few 10ths more from the SAs, you bet. 

One of the hopes of the Limited Editions is that it will create more interest in the basic platform. With just a little imagination and motivation, one can take a 'Fun Kit' and do some things. 

Key things to consider: if you're running 18+ volts, use the basic old HT-50 can. If you run 13ish volts, try the green arm can. Experiement with a brass can out of a Curvehugger. 

Get a pinned shaker plate for easy and secure lexan mounting. Or you can mod your own out of the 'issued' plate. Fabricate some rear axle bushings out of the can motor's brush barrels. We use clock bearings in the LEs. 

Get some weight on the front end and some on the sides. Try different tire compounds in wide and narrow. Those two things in combination will be the key to getting one to suit your track and driving style.

What ever you are doing with slotcars, it beats watching TV. These LEs represent the amount of spare time one has when the tube it turned off. 

I would look forward to sharing anything learned either way. Just send me an email [email protected]

TF









Thingie 2009


----------



## grungerockjeepe (Jan 8, 2007)

Racer you also mention the limited market for brass type cars. I think its less a problem of demand, but one of awareness. If you could assemble the basic fun kit with an HT-50 motor, aluminum rims with silicones. for under $40 then those would sell out of a hobby shop. The key would be getting the right bodies though. You'd need a classic VW bug, at least 2 or 3 muscle cars, an old school hotrod/rat rod and an aero can am or GTP car. So long as you had something that would run out of the box, looks attractive and has upgrades available it would gain in popularity.


----------



## riggenracer (Jul 3, 2008)

Grunge,

Awareness is a big factor as you point out. About everything you just said is correct. The biggest problem preventing a more mass offering is a guide flag/pickup system. All the other parts are easy enough to get or produce. Mass market requires an affordable and easy to use/install/maintain unit. 

The problem is being worked on, but we all have day jobs so progress moves slowly. If someone had about 1,000 Tyco Pro Type One drop arm flags... .

TF


----------



## GoodwrenchIntim (Feb 22, 2005)

riggenracer said:


> If someone had about 1,000 Tyco Pro Type One drop arm flags... .
> 
> TF


Id take a handfull of those myself :thumbsup:


----------



## SplitPoster (May 16, 2006)

Enjoyed reading throught this thread - my knowledge of ho racers in general and Riggens in particular is butkus. It would be neat - and enlightening - to build up a kit some time. A Hobbytalk special edition at that - decals, not custom paint LOL


----------



## T-Jet Racer (Nov 16, 2006)

From what I have seen on the riggen ho site, it is a quality built car with a beautiful painted lexan body. I remember reading the tycopro build up it was well thought out and would produce a great car. Like Terry said the brass cars are a specialty piece, and the amount of work involved is extensive to say the least. I personally would not spend that for a riggen, but that is my position. The stats are they sell out quick, so there are people out there who love them. To each his own


----------



## tomhocars (Oct 19, 2005)

The man behind the New Riggen is Toy Barron Ron Bernstein.You will not find a better person in any hobby.I would venture to say he isn't himself making $.10 on these cars.This has been a labor of love project for years.He spent a fortune to just get the molds.He bought an entirer collection just to get them.When he first started I was assembling them.This was a learning experience for both of us.The gears were bad.The pitch wasn't good.The painter was behind.I was behind,but he kept at it.I had to stop for health reasons but he kept at it.I was with Ron at the Parsipppany show Sunday.He had the latest twin pack with him and they were great.Lots of combined talent built these cars.This is the most expensive cars he builds.There are plenty in the $50 range.I was lucky enough to be given one of the Founding Fathers cars.1 of 6 made.Now I feel old.Ron does this because he is like us.SLOT CAR CRAZY.
THANKS Tom Stumpf


----------



## grungerockjeepe (Jan 8, 2007)

Tom, you're absolutely right on with that. Ron is a great guy, and gives good service. Any issues Ive had were resolved on the spot, you cant ask for much better. And its an awesome, unique product.


----------



## noddaz (Aug 6, 1999)

*While I realise...*

While I realise it wouldn't be "correct" to the original design of the chassis...
How about a SlideGuide from Ed? http://www.horacepro.com/guides.html


----------



## riggenracer (Jul 3, 2008)

*Slid guide*

If you go to the RiggenHO site and look up the Limited Edtion for the "Poly Card" you will see that the builder used a similar setup. It used a pin instead of a flag but the pickup braids are the same concept - fuzzed out stranded wire.

I purchase a Poly Carb from Ron and it is a very interesting build. The only problem with the stranded wires is that it is 'spotty' when used on a rail track. On a braided or copper taped track it should be the ticket. I had to add some wipers over the strands to get any sort of consistent power.

I thank Tom for his great observations and remarks - "Lots of combined talent built these cars." :thumbsup: That really is the case. I only got the job of 'hanging parts' but it would have been a nightmare to have had to do ALL the line items. As I stated before including Ron there were a total of six contributors on this LE. 

Now, if the market will only pick up... . :freak:

TF


----------



## LTjet (Apr 10, 2004)

*Limited Edition*

I just received my "shark" limited edition today. I've been trying to get one of these LE for a while but always missed the mark. I appreciate the craftsmanship put into this car. The paint job is awesome. Thanks Ron and Tom for all you do for this hobby.


----------

