# Insane with the 4-lane: New track build in California



## Rolls

Just a brief intro... First, I've been watching this forum since the Christmas break and have been really impressed with the wealth of experience on the forum, the extreme helpfulness of the posters and the unbelievably cool tracks. 

I'm one of many boomers who are returning to the hobby, it seems. My brother and I raced t-jets and then AFX when they arrived when we were kids. We inherited a boatload of MM track and several cars from our older and very cool neighbor shortly before he went off to the navy during vietnam (he came back in one piece, thankfully). We set up a 2-lane track on a 4x8 sheet of plywood in the basement, about 50 feet with some nice sweepers in O-gauge on either end of the main straight. It actually had some decent landscaping, a cool pit section, lights and good old Aurora speed curves to keep the lanes pretty even on lap times. 

But we were racers first, tuners second and landscaping third, I'd say. I loved that track and we raced it for hours over many years and it was a hit with the neighbor kids, too. We all had permanent indents in out thumbs from those old cylindrical MM controllers. We used them till the discs blew out the bottom and eventually switched over to the newer trigger style Aurora next offered.

I now have 3 kids, ages 13, 11, and 9; boy, boy, girl. I thought it might be cool to give them some exposure to HO racing, so I got a Super International set for them at Christmas 2 years ago. I was amazed by the speed of the new cars and confounded by the handling of the magnet chassis, but willing to re-learn. They loved it, but after a month it couldn't compete with their new Xbox 360, so sadly it got boxed up and stored somewhere deep in the garage.

Fast fwd to this Christmas and I was surprised to see a four-lane track appear around the tree all set up and debugged. My oldest had dug out the box from the garage and put it together all by himself - he was mighty proud, too. And it seems that all three kids have a renewed interest in racing. 

We set up a track with a long (well, 10 ft.) straight on the carpet and the kids are really into it and it looks like this time their interest is a little more durable. So we're going to build a permanent 4-lane track. 

I've learned Tracker 2000 and scoped out possible locations for the track. Many decisions to be made, but I know these things:

1. It'll need to bigger than the 4x8 of my youth to allow for straights that are more in line with the speed of the modern cars. 

2. It'll be 4 lanes for all the reasons Greg Braun lists on his excellent site. 

3. It'll have a lot of track on the table to make each lap interesting and fit in several good straights and other features. Warning - it'll probably be too much track for most people's taste, so apologies in advance.

4. It'll be Tomy sectional because I've already got the Super International, and I just popped for a 4-way split set and a Long Beach set, plus I scored four great craigslist deals on more track and cars for very little $. 

Design is ongoing and we're trying out many features. Next steps are location and table size.

Design of the layout is very interesting work and it's forcing me to analyze what features of the track my brother and I set up as kids made it so compelling that we raced it for 6+ years.

Hope it's interesting and I'm sure I'll need help and guidance!


----------



## RiderZ

*!!!*

Excellent-Its stories like yours are what this hobby is all about.I got back into slots about three years ago and have been having a ball ever since.There is alot of knowledge her on HobbyTalk. Keep us posted on the progress of your layout with pics preferably!!!:thumbsup:


----------



## Crimnick

Awesome!

Welcome back to your next addiction...


----------



## Rolls

*Progress*

Coupla decisions are settled.

My boy's little 4-lane setup around the Christmas tree reminded us of the need for straights to wind out these fast cars. It's TreeTrack below.

So we set up a 2-lane on carpet to try out a long straight. It's Longstreet below. 

This was actually a pretty cool little layout after driving it many laps. We drove it clockwise and the double loop crossover was challenging to slow into coming off the straight, very fun to race around side by side and a definite skill differentiator coming out of as you go through the gentle S rolling on the throttle into the straight.

I thought we'd do a 5x10. All my crazy 5x10 designs (like Noodles below) are being scrapped - we'll go 4x12 to get the longest straights we can in our size constraints. Plus easier marshalling reach for old men (me) and kids.

I thought we'd put this out of the way in my office downstairs. Nope. It's going on the main level and is replacing our dining room table. We only entertain occasionally and even then we don't use the dining room much, so not much downside when I think about it. Upside is huge though - in the D.R. the track will compete directly with the TV and the Xbox/Wii for the kids' attention. Plus, I'm a single dad, so I get to make unilateral decisions on room allocation. But it makes sense bcs I want the track and HO racing to be a memory for the kids long after I'm gone. 

So it's a 4x12 in the dining room! And I've already got the lumber and started building the table. It'll be l-girder "benchwork" which I lifted from Bill Brant's excellent post. Light and easy to build, flexible, plus it really accommodates tracks with a lot of elevation, like multiple straights stacked across the back of the table.


----------



## Rolls

Link to Bill Brant's excellent post on l-girder benchwork: http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=219705


----------



## rbrunne1

Rolls said:


> Nope. It's going on the main level and is replacing our dining room table.
> 
> ...I get to make unilateral decisions on room allocation.


Awesome :woohoo:

I lobbied for the Dining Room, but, unfortunately, I don't get to make unilateral decisions on room allocations 

I did, however, increase my stake in the basement


----------



## oldraceral

I was trying to follow the track on "Noodles" and it reminded me of one of those drawings that isn't physically possible. Now I have to go straighten out my eyes.


----------



## Rolls

*Barfin' noodles*

So you're saying that Noodles is not easy to digest? 

I hear you. But I had many even more crazy on the drawing board. Sadly, I never got to build it and try it now that the focus is on 4x12, but I think I would've actually liked it because it has lots of neat driving aspects to it, like the multiple huge sweepers and increasing/decreasing radius turns. 

I really like holding a slide on the hairy edge for as long as possible and the mix of other turns should be challenging. In the end, though, I think it'd be too road course and not enough flat out in the mix for me & the kids to enjoy long term.


----------



## Grandcheapskate

Remember, what looks good on paper, or even to look at when assembled, may not be good for actually using. You'll have to assemble then test anything you come up with - if you've read posts on track building, I'm sure you know that.

One of the biggest things to avoid on multi-level layouts is do not have curves under an overpass. If a car can deslot, it will do so under an overpass.

Joe


----------



## Rolls

Joe,

Good input and I do agree. 

On overpasses, that's a problem in spades with Noodles. As much as I like many aspects of that crazy track, I'd have to push the back straights out so they don't cover those big sweeping turns and there's just no more width to do that. I couldn't really bring the big curves closer either, or they'd end up being not so big curves and that would just defeat the purpose. Now they would actually have decent sightlines as it is (from one side of the layout, at least), but to your point, I really wanna have my crashes as close as possible to where I'm sitting and have the far parts be straighter and less crash prone. 

On testing before committing to a layout, I do know it from scouring the build threads, but I'll tell ya what - it sure is good to be reminded because in the excitement of building the track it's easy to get carried away!

In fact, I probably need to be a little more clear on what makes a track fun and usable for me. Might not be a bad idea to write it down with all the things on my mind lately. 

Now for the kids, it's easy. They're quite clear - they like loopty-loops, criss-crosses, intersections and banked curves - all the things I don't like!

In any case, we've gotta really like the rhythm of the track, even if it's a complex rhythm, before making anything permanent. And that only comes from driving.

Thanks,

Rob

P.S. And look! I've managed to say in two pages what you said in two sentences. Oh well.


----------



## Crimnick

Cool...track of death....Kids love that stuff...

Not sure which my daughter enjoys more...racing or crashing..


----------



## Rolls

*More progress...*

Well the 4x12 table went together very easily! I'll hold off attaching the cross braces to the legs so I have extra easy access under the table for a while. It's surprisingly stable already. I really have to credit Bill Brant's post for turning me on to this type of table and pretty much showing how it's done.

Here's a pic of my 11 y.o. setting (or resetting) the temporary crash wall up which is necessary now that we're up off the carpet. But both boys are really starting to get a feel for the straight-to-corner transitions, so the catch wall is being put to the test less and less often.










You can't really see the track, so I sketched in Tracker2000. 12' straights are a big improvement over 10' for our tastes, but I can sure see the allure of 16' tables! Not a fit for us, though. But we can stack or stagger a couple 12's across the back!










The kids really like having a table for the track. Next, we'll do a simple 4-lane, again just to get the feel of different track features. Great fun!


----------



## Rolls

A peek under the table showing the l-girder construction and cross-members. Again, I'll hold off attaching the cross braces to the legs so I have extra easy access under the table where I suspect I'll be spending some time for a while.


----------



## Rolls

*Insane 4-lane*

I think I'm going to build this and try it out. Nothing permanent, but it would be good to run it and learn. I like a long lap time. Thoughts? 










T2K isn't great at showing levels, so it might be hard to decipher. Primary driving direction will be going from right to left across the bottom straight, also where control stations will be.

Now of course this would be terrible for club racing, but for a home track where we don't really keep score, but we live for multiple laps of neck and neck racing, it might be a hoot. We'll see.

Looking back now, doesn't Noodles seem simple?? 

And apologies in advance if studying the layout makes your eyes fall out, causes dizziness or makes you swear loudly for 10 minutes and head for the liquor cabinet.:freak:


----------



## slotcarman12078

Dang!! :freak: It looks like a fun track to run, but watch the elevation changes!! You're going to have a heck of a time having clearance running through some of those cross overs...


----------



## Jerzferno

rbrunne1 said:


> Awesome :woohoo:
> 
> I lobbied for the Dining Room, but, unfortunately, I don't get to make unilateral decisions on room allocations
> 
> I did, however, increase my stake in the basement


Me too, just jokingly. You should have seen the look I got from the boss. LOL


----------



## slotnewbie69

what scman said.i had a hell of a time with my last elevated layout.basically i did three nesting circuits,so i wouldn't have problems with track supports.


----------



## TK Solver

I'm interested to see how you mount that curbing on the upper levels. You won't have "multiple laps of neck and neck racing" if cars are crashing and there's no visibility and you can't reslot a car because you can't find it under an overpass. If you are really looking for "multiple laps of neck and neck racing" why not something that's smooth and balanced for all four lanes so that each time your cars cross the start/finish line each will have covered the same distance and you can easily tell who had the faster lap? I attached some examples.


----------



## TK Solver

If you're looking for a long lap time with elevations that are still easy to deal with, here's one with 6 long straights thanks to the "X" overpasses in the middle. Lap length is 82 ft, with all four lanes equal length.


----------



## Rolls

*Fear and uncertainty - a little keeps me at my best*

You guys are right on. Those places where where the track threads through itself, in the case of the "pretzel" in the middle of the layout, or through the "spiral" tucked inside the big 18" curve on the left side are the toughest to solve. Anything I do to help clearance in one spot will eat clearance in the other. This is especially true of the pretzel section, bcs it's basically a knot. 

I really have only one strategy to help with clearances AND sightlines AND marshalling. I'm being generous with the vertical. I figure the back stack of straights need to have half a foot of air between them to help sight and for paws to fit through for marshalling. 

With that much elevation, though, support and smoothness will be challenges. So will the computer layout vs. the physical layout, bcs going from base level to 16" across 4' of table is steep enough to need another inch or two of track to account for slopes.

It'll be challenging, but if driving it turns out to be either no fun or physically impossible, I'll start over. If it does drive nice over time, I'll need brains and creativity and a few clever tricks to make it work out. 

I figure I'm in the right place for that though! I've been following tossedman's routing thread and swampergene's, tsooko's, scman's and other posters' inputs and mods and workarounds are sheer genius. :thumbsup:

Thanks,

Rob


----------



## Rolls

TKSolver,

Just saw your posts, which came in while I was typing my last post. I'll study them now and get back asap!

Thanks,
Rob


----------



## Rolls

TKSolver,

3 great suggestions, all greatly appreciated. For the first layout, which I'll call "Wide Red & Blue," I like that it has even lanes and would be easy to marshall. It's a great track. It's a bad fit for me though, because I like a long lap and a lot of variety. So the more symmetry a track has the worse it is for me. I see the diff radii, and am confident it'd have a good rhythm, but just too short and similar for me, and more so for my kiddies.

For Narrow Blue and Red, I like this track and have seen a few done up just beautifully. It appears to have symmetry, but it really doesn't at all. Excellent variety of challenging curves. Still, too short for us. 

Personal taste (no accounting for it, esp. mine): A 15 sec. lap, if you can make such a long track work, is awesome for us, and never monotonous. A 4 sec lap, while perfect clubs and comparing absolute tuning and driving skills, seems too single purpose to me. 

I do worry about crashes and cars getting stuck in unreachable places, though. I worry about it a lot.


----------



## Rolls

One more thing on Narrow Blue and Red... if you really stare at my insane 4-lane (which I call Track Jack - I'm not sure exactly why) you can see Narrow is actually buried in there, or at least much of Narrow is lifted and used in Track Jack. 

Onto #3... For all the reasons above, your third suggestion is really grabbing me! Thanks! I'd like to study it more. Is there a bigger pic of it or a Tracker2000 file? I really like a lot of what its achieving and shifting the x=over to the center is a very cool design aspect of it. I tried something similar but I couldn't pull it off and I gave up. 
Very cool!

Thanks!!


----------



## TK Solver

Here is the exact sequence of pieces and inventory required, in Excel form. Note that this layout is 12' long, 4' wide in the center and 6' wide at the ends. The narrow central portion makes it easier to reach things and makes for more intense, face-to-face racing when there are just two of you.


----------



## TK Solver

Here's a pic from next to the scoring monitor.


----------



## Rolls

That works for me! I'll play with it on Tracker2000 and on the table. 

I like that it has:

- room for a nice pit area
- good straights
- good sweepers/carousel, variety
- equal length (bcs it eliminates one variable, but I don't love it bcs I don't think it translates to equal lane difficulty, and is even less important as the track gets longer or more complex. Still I always check lane lengths and feel somehow satisfied the closer they are to equal.)
- Not too much overpass over curves
- visibility seems about equal from both sides of the layout (NOT even close w/Track Jack)

Negatives are few:
- might need to narrow it for my space constraints (maybe). Stack center straights?
- no part of it my kids really feel they had a hand in
- crashiness seems equal all across the table
- TrackJack is half again as long (~80' to ~120')
- I do kinda like when some sections of track run next to ea. other - automatic borders!

Can't wait to play around with it!

Thanks again, Solver! I didn't really give you much to go on and you came up with a really intriguing layout!


----------



## TK Solver

It's impossible to have "equal lane difficulty" for all the different types of cars out there. Some chassis handle the edge lanes better and others handle the middle lanes better. 

We've been running that layout for several years now. TJets do laps in 12-13 seconds. TJet UltraGs do laps in 9-11 seconds. X-Tractions take 9-10 seconds. XT UltraGs take 7-9 seconds. Tomy Turbos take 8 seconds. SG+, SRT, MegaG, and LifeLike can all get under 7 seconds, with the fastest lap recorded just under 6.


----------



## Rolls

Yep. Chasing equal lane difficulty is a fool's errand. Equalizing lap lengths is no Holy Grail either, of course (IMHO). It only eliminates one variable, and it's not clear that that variable has any correlation with equality or any other figure of merit of a track, except at unreasonable extremes, which are pretty irrelevant anyway.

Those lap times help me get a better feel for the layout - thanks! Any things you might change if you were redoing the same track? Especially to optimize fun with XT class cars? 

The boys like all cars but are really digging the original AFX cars and even more the Magna-Tractions. In fact I have the Mopar Mania XT 6-car collection coming in the mail so we can really sink out teeth into XT cars. I'm hoping they become our new favorites and I can keep getting them under $10 a car. That said, we like all cars, so I don't want to optimize any design to too narrow a band. 

Do you see any downside to adding another foot/15" to the length of the straights? It'd push the end curves away from the curves hanging off the diagonal straights.


----------



## bobhch

*Track...........*

Hey Rolls,

Just like when we were kids huh? My friend and me would change our tracks and add more to them every week. lol You guys are living the good life now!

When I was a kid all our tracks were set up on the floor in the basement. My AFX track was setting on a tiled black and white floor but, my friend Chris had his set up on his basements carpet. Nothing like pulling all that stuff off your axles.

Bob...Fun times ahead...zilla


----------



## TK Solver

If I had the room, I'd lengthen the four horizontal straights. The layout allows for it easily.

X-Tractions are my favorites and this design evolved from that. Most of the tightest turns are on the table. The elevated turns are wider. The straights are all long enough to allow you to get in and out of the throttle easily and racers have room and time to try to optimize their coasting and acceleration points.

If there was anything I'd like to change about this layout, I'd do it. Nothing is stopping me other than the space available.

I'm not a landscaper. My track is for racing. This layout would be extremely difficult to landscape so that's a downside.


----------



## Slott V

*Past experiences speak*

All layouts seem great on paper until you actually put one together and try it out for a while. You won't really know what works until you run it so don't nail anything down at first.


----------



## Slott V

BTW- I like your subject line. Is that Cypress Hill I hear? :dude:


----------



## Rolls

Slott V - Right on both counts!! Many miles to be raced and tweaks to be made by me and the kids before we lock down anything. 

Bobzilla - Yep. If I can find a picture from the ancient tombs of my track from when I was a kid, I'll post it. It sat on a 4x8 which perched on unused patio furniture ottomans in the basement. No complaints, though. We loved that track. Hope my kids will have good memories of HO racing or at least doing something cool with Dad.

Solver - Thanks again. What you've learned from racing that track so much is super helpful to me. 

Solver - On turn borders for elevated sections as you mentioned in an earlier post today... My thought was to support the elevated track with 1/4" luan cut to fit with an inch overhang on outside of curves slated for aprons. Then build up the aprons to track height from the luan base using one of the many apron techniques posted in the forum. Then add crashwalls, maybe styrene, to the outside edge of the apron where appropriate.


----------



## Rolls

*Build and drive, build more and drive more...*

We've been busy. On the PC, I've been trying different versions of Solver's track to bring in the 6' parts and stretch out the horizontal straights. Our space just won't accomodate the width - our dining room is kind of long and narrow - fine for a DR table, but not so good for a wide track. What were they thinking when they designed this house???

On the table, we've been building and driving simplified versions of what I'm for now calling TrackJack. We build, see how it drives, tweak, drive and if that feels right, we add another step toward the full-on 119 ft. TrackJack design. Gives us time to evaluate and tweak or change more radically if we like. We built and ran a 60' version first and went on from there.

Here's an 80' version we ran and enjoyed:










Now we've moved to a 92' version. These shortened versions of the full track should also make it easier to digest the full version I posted earlier for all whose eyes popped out trying to follow the full 119' design.

Here's the 92' version:










I promise to take some real photos and put in my next post. 

We're busy, but we're sure having a blast!!!

Rolls


----------



## Rolls

*Actual track being tested! Spiral view*

We're beating on a test version of TrackJack. It's rigged Dixie Cups and any random box we could pull out of our recycling, but we're able to drive it. We'll log lots of test miles. Here's what the spiral (or corkscrew or roundy-roundy, etc.) looks like:




























Note track is shifted all over 'cause it keeps getting bumped and it's support is makeshift for now. I can't believe it runs so well in this temp mode with only one power connection - no additional taps. Of course, it'll ultimately get several taps.


----------



## Rolls

*More pics*

Attempt at whole track view:










and the "knot" a.k.a "pretzel" and the other side of the track (opposite the spiral side).


----------



## Crimnick

Rightious!


----------



## slotcarman12078

Simply amazing!!! I never would have thought the pretzel twist would have worked!! The track variety I'm seeing sure has me pondering giving up on my old L&J stuff... Just out of curiosity, am I seeing right? Last picture, left of center coming out of the pretzel... Do I see a 1/8 curve banked piece (going up) and a 1/8 curve piece reverse banked?? (Kind of like a hill track?) :thumbsup::thumbsup:


----------



## Rolls

Thanks, guys! slotcarman, I can see what you're asking - the photo makes it look like there's some banking going on, but there's not. Coming out of the pretzel, one lane has 9" 1/8 right and same left. Other lane has a 6" right and 12" left, all flat pieces, all laying flat.

The 90 turn coming into the pretzel looks like it is reverse banked from some camera angles, too, but it's not. Well unless a cereal box or dixie cup support falls out somewhere!


----------



## slotnewbie69

crazy layout!


----------



## Joe65SkylarkGS

Am I to understand this is a 4 by 12 table? If I read correctly?

I love it and want to build it now!!:wave:

I hate you!!!!


----------



## Joe65SkylarkGS

Do I see 1 by 8's under some of the track?


----------



## T-jetjim

Very cool. The preztel actually looks like it won't be too hard to marshall. The corkscrew however, looks like it could be difficult to get a car from under it. Just a thought. I like those Bre Datsuns lined up too.
Lot of track on this layout. How do the cars hold up on the double criss crosses?
Jim


----------



## Rolls

Thanks, guys! 

We're driving the heck out of it and loving it. I hope to try X-tractions on it tonight if the Mopar Mania 6-pack arrives in the mail.



> crazy layout!


Slotnewbie - This layout *could* be called crazy, at least in polite company, but I still think it's more accurate to say it's full-on insane.  At least that's what we're shooting for!



> Am I to understand this is a 4 by 12 table? If I read correctly?


Joe65 - 4x12 it is, but it does hang off both ends by a little bit to try to squeeze everything possible out of the straights. Also, the topmost back straight is a track width or so beyond the long edge of the table, because I wanted push it out just a bit from the straights under it for visibility and to fit a nice big not-quite-constant-radius turn (18"R-15"R-18"R) at each end of that top straight.


----------



## Rolls

Joe65SkylarkGS said:


> Do I see 1 by 8's under some of the track?


Sharp eye! Those are 8' long strips of 1/4" plywood, cut to 6" wide to support the straights. I expect I'll use the same under the curves, at least the elevated ones, but those will take a little time with the old jigsaw.

Rolls


----------



## Rolls

T-jetjim said:


> Very cool. The preztel actually looks like it won't be too hard to marshal. The corkscrew however, looks like it could be difficult to get a car from under it. Just a thought.
> Jim


You're exactly right. :thumbsup: The pretzel is surprisingly easy to marshall and cars tend to crash in places that send them out in the open, too. I thought it'd be much worse than it is. 

The corkscrew is a bear to marshal, though. So far people crash mostly on the entry and the exit, which are no problem, but that track running through the center gets in the way when a car does tumble mid-corner. I'm thinking hard on ways to make crashes easier to recover there.



T-jetjim said:


> I like those Bre Datsuns lined up too. Jim


That's my boys scattering cars all over the track. They like the way it looks. The excess of BRE Datsuns is on me, I gotta admit. 510's and 240z's. I just love those cars.



T-jetjim said:


> Lot of track on this layout. How do the cars hold up on the double criss crosses?
> Jim


Lanes average 119' and that gobbles up track sets like I couldn't believe. The banked 180 (hard to see in the photos) and the criss-crosses are aspects I could do without, but my boys insist. Surprisingly, I'm really getting used to them. It helps that they're right where you need to slow for the curve ahead to avoid crashes and in easy reach when you do crash, at first bcs you forget they're there, then later because each car is different when you're trying to hustle them through near the limit.

Great insights, Jim. Thanks!!


----------



## Joe65SkylarkGS

Rolls said:


> Sharp eye! Those are 8' long strips of 1/4" plywood, cut to 6" wide to support the straights. I expect I'll use the same under the curves, at least the elevated ones, but those will take a little time with the old jigsaw.
> 
> Rolls


Great idea. keep it as thin as possible. Only thing with strips of plywood is, it might warp so maybe a few supports under them? Long ways? 1/2 by 1's? I built shelves in my attic with 1 by 6 pine and it's nice but it's around 3/4's thick.

Do you have a plan on this layout as far as track needs? I'd like tosee if I have the track. I just built a new layout so i'll run it for a while but wouldn't mind building your. If it's ok with you?


----------



## Rolls

Joe65SkylarkGS said:


> Great idea. keep it as thin as possible. Only thing with strips of plywood is, it might warp so maybe a few supports under them? Long ways? 1/2 by 1's?


Yep, you're hitting on another design tradeoff that kept me busy. I just struggled with any approach where the support of the track was 10x the weight of the track it was supporting. And I didn't want to eat into my precious vertical between straights in the stack. Thin is in, it keeps the track feeling much more open. But I don't believe that thin ply will hold it's shape too long by itself. 

Right now, there's a cross support every 30" and I figure I'll go to every 15" Then something long ways, but I'm not sure what. Maybe a crash wall of the same thin ply glued to existing ply but along the back of the straights. It's sort of the same idea as the l-girder, where the little piece upright prevents the bigger piece from sagging. Still thinking on it.



Joe65SkylarkGS said:


> Do you have a plan on this layout as far as track needs? I'd like to see if I have the track. I just built a new layout so i'll run it for a while but wouldn't mind building your. If it's ok with you?


Ok with me? I'm flattered. More the merrier in the insane category! :thumbsup:Seriously, though, while it's still early and I'm sure there are tweaks coming, we are really, really, really enjoying this layout.

I'll dig up that track list. I have it on a different PC. It's big, though! Good thing is, you can build it parts over time, to see if it's right for you. We went from a 40' version to a 60', then 80', 92' and finally on to 119'. I'll go find that track list.

Thanks!!

Rolls


----------



## Rolls

*Track list*



Joe65SkylarkGS said:


> Do you have a plan on this layout as far as track needs? I'd like to see if I have the track.


Joe,

Here's the list of track pieces used. Note that I didn't show any of the power terminals, and I sprinkled at least 8 of them throughout the track, so I actually used 8 fewer 15" straights just from that and I substituted a few 9"+6" combos, so my actual count for plain 15" straights is not 105, but probably more like 94. Still a lot, I know!

In just a few weekends of checking craigslist, I scored a ton of good track in great condition for a total of $125. It's probably more than a third of the track. And I got 12+ really good cars with those track buys, too. Some of the cars were even unopened! One set was the Tomy ghost racer set with 3 cars, 2 of them perfect, complete for five bucks.

So don't let the cost scare you like it did me at first. 

Rob


----------



## Crimnick

I used Luan...it's floor underlayment (subfloor) plywood...1/4"

been set up in the garage for a year....no warping..


----------



## Rolls

That's great news, Crimnick! Thanks for the heads up. My 6" wide slabs are actually cut from 2 different 4x8 sheets. One is luan, which I liked and found good to work with. I think it's 5mm, but maybe it's 5.2mm. The other is a birch finished ply that was in the luan pile at the orange store, about 5-7 sheets down in the luan pile. Well I found this out after it was cut and I went to the checkout counter. One sheet was 11 bucks and the other was 28! They made it right by just charging me for 2 at the 11 ea. Anywhooo, I like the luan every bit as much as the more expensive sheet. 

Do you have any detectable sagging on your elevated sections (umm... of your track)? I see in your photos you have supports every 10-12 inches it looks like.


----------



## Joe65SkylarkGS

Crimnick said:


> I used Luan...it's floor underlayment (subfloor) plywood...1/4"
> 
> been set up in the garage for a year....no warping..



What did it cost? Any pics?


----------



## Rolls

Joe65SkylarkGS said:


> What did it cost? Any pics?


65Lark,

Everything you ever wanted to know about the oddly-named plywood product "luan." http://www.insidewoodworking.com/luanplywood.html










It's used a lot for underlayment, cabinet making (think drawer bottoms and side panels), and doll house building. 

Chief benefits to me were it was thin, light, pretty stiff, inexpensive @ $11 for 4x8, and easy to cut into any shape. I tried it, I liked it. And now we know from *Crimnick's* experience that it can hold up pretty well, too.

My local HD and Lowe's stock one or two levels of quality, plus much fancier cherry, birch and other veneers of 1/4" ply that are much more expensive and heavier than luan.

It seems a little thin for screwing track to, but I'm not there yet.

Hope it helps,

Rolls


----------



## Rolls

*X-traction satisfaction*

The X-tractions arrived weeks ago and we've been running the tires off as we continue to test and tweak the overall layout. We got the Mopar Madness 6-pack, which has very cool bodies (great detail and paint) but they are release 2 as far as I can tell, so they have that tractor look from wide front tires and "high-rider" bodies. Still they're cool and I expect original AFX, XT and MT (and maybe G-Plus) will see more tracktime at our house than any others (though we love them all). 

The XTs have also really helped us burn in the track. Lots of scale miles run and track tuning done. We're really getting a feel for what we like on the layout.










The finish on these cars is outstanding, despite how the photo makes them look like they suffer from orange peel. 

Quality was a mixed bag, as expected, with two running fast and quiet out of the box and one which wouldn't make it a full lap without binding up and stopping. All the front axles are loose - they have enough slop that their movement could be picked up by GPS. I'll be scouring the archives for tuning tips on these early XTs. Still, at $56 for 6 cars, that's a lot of HO-bang for the buck.


----------



## Rolls

*Original AFX been helping out, too!*

Lovin' those XT's, but I still have a soft spot for the original AFX cars. Not much is cooler out of the box than the AFX Nomads, to my eye. 










I had a green one as a kid that I scrimped and saved for and it was my favorite.

Now I guess I'll be saving up for one of Drag's red ones. Man, it looks good.


----------



## Rolls

*Getting wood*

I've been making many trips to big orange store to get wood to support the track. More slowly than surely, paper cup towers and cereal boxes are giving way to knotty pine and luan.










Odd bites are removed from some pieces of underlayment to maximize clearance of tight overpasses. 










Many iterations of assembly, test and tune of track inclines and fit, and dis-assembly to trim/file/adjust again.










So the underside can support the topside.



















It's slow, tedious, therapeutic and mostly fun.


----------



## Rolls

The pretzel was one of the more complicated parts to support, but the jigsaw was my friend. 










Boards and posts replace paper cup towers and provide almost as much tunability of inclines and cambers. An 1/8 of an inch change in either completely changes the nature of these curves. And each class of car is affected differently. It's really made me appreciate the l-girder structure of the table.










The posts do add up though!


----------



## Rolls

The corkscrew was another tricky part. Still tuning it, but it has the necessary clearance for Racing Rigs. 




























Back together again, back together again...


----------



## martybauer31

Wild, wild stuff man.... Looking forward to seeing lane color choices made and a finalized layout!


----------



## slotcarman12078

Now that's what I call a dining room!!!! :lol: Awesome track! That looks like a blast! :thumbsup::thumbsup:


----------



## joegri

hey rolls the spiral effect is very cool sometime you,ll be able to get a tjet to do a controlled fishtail from bottom to top.! enjoy.


----------



## Rolls

Thanks guys! 

*Marty *- I wish I could show it to you in 3D. It's a lot simpler and logical than it appears through the camera lens. 

You got it, *Joe*!! The layout is actually just a bunch of 12' straights connected by big and not so big curves for sliding, with one stretch of "road coursey" stuff in the middle which contains the pretzel and the spiral. 

It's very much a back and forth layout, with sustained drifts through the spiral and all the big curves and that's way fun with the tjets up through MT/XTs. So is the tail-wagging as the cars claw for grip coming out of those curves. 

It's a different kind of fun with the newer mag cars. *AfxToo *described it as well as I've ever seen in his recent post (#12 in *TjetBill's* brilliant thread, "Time Travel Affects Slot Cars" ).

Yeah *slotcarman*, best use of our dining room *ever*! It seemed a little kooky at first, but we've had more use and more fun out of that room since Christmas than in the last 10 years combined.

My original goal with all the wood support was to ensure stable electrical connections and make marshaling easier, but those problems turned out to be no biggie, even with paper cup supports. I could've just nailed the track down at 3-4 strategic points to contain lateral movement and been good to go. 

Now my real goal with the wood is to make the elevated sections plenty stable so I can wipe them down just as easily as the flat parts. Otherwise, track cleaning/dusting wipe-downs could easily become a pain and a barrier to enjoying laps. Kids (and me, honestly) might be swayed to the TV and I want to avoid that as much as practical.

It's a constant learning experience, for sure. Sorry for the long post. Hope it helps someone at a similar point their trackbuilding journey.


----------



## slotnewbie69

holy carp!that's a crazy layout!


----------



## AfxToo

Wow - that is one amazing piece of craftsmanship and labor of love born out in total slot car excellence. I think I can see where you are going with this and it looks like it is going to be one heck of a track. I'm thinking an urban GTA theme with a few high rises around the edges will really take this where it needs to go. No quaint babbling brooks and foliage, but instead some sharp color contrast and lots of edges and cityscapes.


----------



## ParkRNDL

WOW. Holy frijole. That's some serious business. I could barely get Luan to cut right for a simple curved overpass. You, my friend, have mastered some serious voodoo. Can't wait to see this finished.

--rick


----------



## slotnewbie69

more pics!more pics!!:thumbsup::thumbsup:


----------



## martybauer31

slotnewbie69 said:


> more pics!more pics!!:thumbsup::thumbsup:


Yup, bump for more pics man, let's see 'em!


----------



## slotnewbie69

pics!pics!pics!we won't let up until we have........................you guessed it!pics!


----------



## Rolls

AfxToo - Very cool idea for landscaping. All our thinking on landscaping has been kind of back burner, because I'm so slow at getting the basic foundation solid. Urban/high rise is a great idea. With so little area on the ground available, it makes sense to go vertical. 

Marty, Slotnewbie, ParkRNDL - more pics coming! Thanks for the encouragement. As I take each section of the layout apart and put it back together for the 25th time to secure it properly, I sure need some encouragement from time to time. 

Progress is being made, though, so I'll be posting more pics ASAP!


----------



## Rolls

*Tripping the (IR) lights fantastic*

What? Laptimer 2000 is free??? Well, I had to try that out right away.

The Shack had the IR LEDs in stock, but was out of IR phototransistors and out of matched pairs. I think going with the matched pairs is good advice. But I can find my way around a datasheet so I stopped by the local dusty old electronics store and picked up four of their flavor of IR phototransistors with peak sensitivity of 940nm to matching the Shack’s LEDs peak output.

I wired the photosensors into a parallel printer cable and I popped the photosensors in a piece of track. I chose a place in the track that could accommodate a timing gantry and where cars were not likely to crash or slide across lanes. 










I did all my testing with a strong droplight over the sensors because I wanted to ensure I had the system working without introducing any mismatched sensor/LED issues into the equation. After not too much tweaking it worked fine with the droplight. Not so much with the LEDs, unless they were a little closer than I liked to the sensors. So I doubled down on the LEDs, putting a pair above each lane’s sensor and that did the trick. More light and less alignment sensitivity of the gantry to the track – what’s not to like? 

Here’s my test-rig circuit board made out of luan, what else? 










As if we needed another reminder of why most engineers should leave the soldering to a good technician. 

The camera in my trusty iPhone (like most any modern cellphone) dips into the IR spectrum, so a photo showed the LEDs kicking out the photons well enough and even helped with aligning the test rig gantry correctly over the sensors.










Here’s the temporary gantry – just some cardboard uprights to support the LEDs overhead. You can see both the LEDs and the sensors if you squint.










It works. Man, that’s great software for free.


----------



## slotnewbie69

good job rolls!i am a hack at best at wiring,but i'm learning!good to see the progress!


----------



## rbrunne1

Rolls said:


> It works. Man, that’s great software for free.


I'm glad that you got it to work :thumbsup:

I could never get my home made set-up to count all the laps. It would repeatably count 92 out of every 100 laps 

Now in baseball. .920 would put you in the Hall of Fame, but it wasn't quite good enough for slot cars


----------



## AfxToo

Rolls is doing everything to maximize his probability of success. 

The root cause weakness with LT2000 is that its timing/counting loop is done in a user mode application that relies on the performance of the Windows scheduler and built-in port drivers. Using the Windows built-in capabilities for things like the serial port and joystick port is a big time saver and complexity reducer for software developers, but you are at the mercy of what Microsoft provides and their primary concern is NOT on serial port or joystick performance, it's on providing a rich graphical user experience and generalized hosting platform for managing dozens of applications, services, and drivers simultaneously. The bottom line is that the LT2000 timer/counting loop relies on a user mode application and driver model that's competing for CPU cycles with every other user mode application on the machine (all the junk you see in Task Manager) and this user mode driver model in turn relies on a kernel mode driver that Microsoft provides that's competing for CPU cycles with kernel drivers that have much more demanding requirements like painting screen video, managing memory, multimedia, and pumping bits in and out of the network card. On a reasonably modern machine this all works amazingly well nearly all of the time and even a user mode application can do lap timing and counting quite well. 

However, there are times when despite everything a software application like LT2000 does, and despite using tricks like tapping into the built-in multimedia timers and tweaking process priorities, Windows will throw in a big delay and a timing dependent process falls outside of its ability to compensate for the OS induced delay. Any software timing/counting application that relies on the built-in capabilities of a general purpose computing platform like Windows, DOS, Linux, Mac, or others is always at the mercy of a platform that was not built for the task it is being asked to perform. I'm sure every developer of these programs, even the DOS ones that overdrive the built in hardware timers could tell you exactly under what conditions their programs will fail.

The solution to this problem is put the critical timing/counting functions outside of the general purpose computing platform on a dedicated outboard unit. As long as the triggers from the sensors are captured 100% reliably then any vagueness introduced in the PC are inconsequential. If a Windows screen updates a bit slowly or irregularly, who cares as long as the timing/counting values are 100% reliable. This is what TrackMate does with their Windows product, they outboard the timing critical functions to a dedicated piece of hardware and firmware. Other high end timing/counting applications use Phidget Boards and similar micro controllers for the same purpose. 

So, which way should you go? It's all about cost-performance. If you are tolerant of infrequent misses or occasional timing outliers a software-only solution running on a general purpose computer is probably good enough. Making smart choices about sensors and setup can improve the reliability software-only solutions to the point of making them fully adequate for your needs. If you want something that is potentially better, or at least architecturally better, then a system with an outboard timer/counter stands a better chance. But even then you are at the mercy of the quality and stability of the board *and* the the software. If the board works great and the software doesn't work reliably you are no better off. 

My advice on timer/counter solutions is to take advantage of other people's experiences. Some products have a reputation for a reason. Sure you have to consider the source and understand that some people are more or less tolerant than others. Look at what the national level racing organizations are using if you want something rock solid and reliable. If your needs are less demanding or if your wallet is less plump, then find out what others with similar needs are using and tailor your expectations accordingly.


----------



## NTxSlotCars

Nice track Rolls!!! :thumbsup:


----------



## Rolls

AfxToo - One of the reasons I love this forum is that I can usually find some thorough thinking and clear explanation of most any aspect of slot car racing/building/tuning. Your explanation of the lap timing/counting trade off is clear, concise and informative new content to this vexing area of track building - very much appreciated. 

I'll be watchful for missed laps as I use this setup over time and hopefully I won't get too many unpleasant surprises. I can tolerate a few, but 92/100 like rbrunne1 had just wont do, even for my home racing needs, which are far from the cutthroat competitive end of the spectrum. 

Thanks, NTx! Right now my focus is keeping this project moving along. Support structure, timing, power, drivers' stations, turn aprons, landscape, ... you know the drill.

Man, we had some great racing last night, though. My brother and my 13 y.o. son and me were just having a complete ball with three Super G + cars on the track at once. We did about 150 laps (120 ft. laps) together with lots of neck and neck. We had a blast!!

Thanks! More pics real soon.


----------



## Rolls

*Timing gantry support*

The gantry is in need of less temporary support. It's kind of teetering all alone in the center of three 4-lane straights. 

I like the position because it's accessible from the drivers positions and it's a low-crash, no-slide area bcs cars are slowing down for the left hander up to the top straight and the criss crosses just before that. 









I mocked up a possible gantry support design in cardboard. It reaches from the inside straight over to the center straight where the sensors be. 









Looked like it'd work so I cut two sides like this out of luan:









And I got my other favorite building material out (Home Depot yardsticks - 3 ft of pretty good wood for 61 cents!) If you can put up with the orange print, they're as good as what they sell for $1 a foot in the molding aisle. Nicely marked for cutting, too.

The circuit board will drop into this and sit at the lower level, supported by yardstick wood. The little cross-member with the orange letter "T" on it supports the middle of the LED board, so it aligns with the gap between each pair of lanes in the 4-lane straight below. The board sits way out at the end of the gantry, bcs it has to reach over one straight to get to that center straight.









And a removeable top piece drops on, recessed by a half inch. It acts as a cover for the LEDs and a "floor" for spectators standing on top of the gantry looking out over the resulting half-wall.









Power comes from a small wall-wart below the table and wires supplying about 30mA to the LED board run up through the base and will be covered by drop in stairs, or a very lame facsimile thereof.









It's reasonably ventilated, but there's not much heat to build up with 12V at 30mA total (all 8 LEDs are in series). 

And it'll eventually be covered with sponsor borders or some other signage. Here it sits in place of the cardboard uprights with some banners on copy paper tried on for size.



















And that's how we're counting laps for now.


----------



## slotcarman12078

Brilliant lesson in low cost engineering!!! I would have never thought of yardsticks!!!! Pre-marked for where to cut no less!!! You have turned into a luan guru!!! :thumbsup::thumbsup:


----------



## slotnewbie69

dude!awesome track!lovin it!great design ideas too,seems you done some thinkerin' on it for sure!thanks for all the great pics and ideas!mebbe i'll go the laptimer route one day,but fer now its just sunday drivin!


----------



## Rolls

Thanks, gents! Much appreciated. 

Next area to tackle is power. I've really been surprised how well the wall warts have worked, but I always knew they were not a long term solution. 

They did, however, enjoy a stay of execution for a coupla months when I spliced Tomy connectors to the Parma econo 45's, so I could sort out the many interdependent choices around kicking up the electrification of the track a notch.

More pics on the way...


----------



## Rolls

*I've got the power!*

How much power is enough? I run t-jets to Mega-G's and everything in between, with a sweet spot on AFX MT chassis and another one on SuperG+.
No major amp sucking modifieds, though. Just 4 across of mostly box-stock chassis.

I'd love to have 2-3A per lane, but for me, that gets a little wallet-thirsty. I hunted used HP lab supplies on e-pay for way too many hours. I figure if I value my time at $3/hour, I probably spent oh, about $7M on power supply hunting. Fear of paying the expensive shipping and getting a dud made me focus on new or at least warranted.

That led me to my #1 choice, the tried and true Pyramid 0-30VDC 5A budget workbench supply, for about $95 shipped.

I also found a pretty neat switchable universal laptop supply that could put out 3A or so continuously and maybe 7A burst. It's output voltage was switch selectable in a handful of stops between 12 and 24V as I recall. Most important, it was very well regulated. For about $65 shipped, it was attractive. And I could double or even quadruple them in the future if desired. No meters, though. (I can't find the link to this unit now - sorry.)

Also in contention was recently-introduced Mastech 0-20VDC at 5A for $80, plus shipping, the Mastech REGULATED VARIABLE DC POWER SUPPLY GPS-1850D 20V 5A. 5A, meters, and maybe I'd never miss the extra 10V? At full throttle, the warts (one ea. lane) drop from their no-load reading of 24V down to maybe 14 or 15. So a regulated 18 or 20 might be just swell.

Of course I also wasted time thinking about how I'd regulate and adjust a cheap open-frame 24VDC fixed supply that was maybe $30 for 5 or more? amps IIRC. Oh, great! Add another sub-project to the electrification sub-project. I think I'll just not do that and save $7M of my free time.

Finally I stumbled across a refurbed Pyramid for $65 plus maybe 10 or 15 for shipping. That was a risk I could live with, especially since the warranty was *longer* than that of a new unit.

It's here and it tests out fine under load for a week's time! Didn't break a sweat. Hootie-hoo!!











And I can make a shelf between l-girders under the table, at least for starters:










Power taps are next...:wave:


----------



## slotcarman12078

Anything you use has to be a serious step up from what I've got!!! I've been running the old fashioned train transformers.. One per lane. I just started experimenting with one of the newer, better regulated train transformers. I'm on a shoestring budget now, so it'll have to do. Keep at it Rolls!!! You are closing in on top notch!!! :thumbsup::thumbsup:


----------



## slotnewbie69

wow.i thought i was gettin hi tech with adjustable wall warts!lol!great build all round rolls.if i ever have a budget maybe i can create something even a hair as creative as you insane 4 lane.man thats alot of track!


----------



## Rolls

*Power tap quandry*

Shockingly, the power from the wall warts applied at only one place has worked pretty well. I expected power troubles on this 119' circuit with large elevated sections, so we've been lucky. Still, joints oxidize and ohms creep in over time, so power taps were always part of the plan. 

How many and where though? I don't like looms of wires and I didn't want to go overboard on taps. 

Here's an older shot of the track that shows it's long and narrow (13' x 4'). 












and if I rotate that and show it Tracker 2000:












So I figured I'd just run a track power "bus" right up the middle of the skinny part of the track:










I like this because I can start with just a few taps into maybe 3 of the straights, and later if I want I can tap more of the 7 straights that are accessible up the middle, with out running wire all around the track. With 8 wires for 4 lanes, it really adds up fast. Also, the x-members in the l-girder table nicely accommodate a "bus" of wires running this way.



Here's where I'll put the first three taps. 










Turns out it pretty much divides the track into thirds, whether we count distance or joints. The yellow rectangle in the upper left shows a good place where 8 lanes are side by side and elevated, so I could wire these together if it made sense down the road to give a little extra help to the elevated sections.

If I bus the wires for control, too, I can have the main drivers' stations shown on the bottom, and have a set of auxiliary drivers' stations along the back straights. When the kids are driving, I'll often drive from the back side to give them an advantage (which turns out to be a very small advantage) and so I can use my longer arms to help marshal cars out of reach to them.



So the wiring would look something like this:










The grey box is the new power supply and the aux DS's along the back (or top) side are not explicitly shown, but the wires to them are. 

It feels good to get some of these decisions out of the way and make progress. :thumbsup: Power tap making comes next, then drivers' stations (finally!) after that...


----------



## slotnewbie69

rolls,yer a braver man than I!i am trying to wrap my head around a rather modest layout and scrathing my head!as you responded to my track build,i have ammalgamated the progress on my own track build thread,"englenook raceways".check it out if ya want.great titanic build ya got going there,rolls!whenever you guys post schematics and such of your builds,i feel like i am still hitting the flint to my sword to maKE FIRE!


----------



## Joe65SkylarkGS

Boy oh boy does that thing look like a blast!!!!!!


----------



## Rolls

*Yeah, I'm tappin' that...*

Power taps are in. I used the method I first saw in Crimnick's write-up, where a terminal track is cut and snipped to accept spade lugs. I had a lot of terminal tracks and I just couldn't see replacing them all with 15" straights. 

Still I also did a pair of good old solder up taps using two of the existing 15" sections in the main straight. Here are some pics as well as my own recommendations based on the experience I gained plowing through the power tap chore.

Crimnick style taps:

I grabbed these raw materials and tools:











Then I set about removing the terminal box:











Flipping it over, the bottom plate looked vulnerable. (Mine had some velcro on it left over from gen 1 track fastening.)











It looked like it could be pryed off:











and it could, which revealed this:











Then I cracked off the side by carefully x-acto knifing the terminal box:










Which after after a few knife cuts along the top and the sides comes off, revealing this in all it's internal beauty:










And then the key is to cut the metal strip which ties the grounds together. It was easy with a tin snip going at the most vulnerable spot, the place it has a hole in to attach to a little plastic post:










If you look closely, you can probably see that I'm half way through it.


----------



## Rolls

Now the terminal's internal strips can be *carefully* folded away from the track, to they can poke down through your table surface and accept spade lugs.











Installed, the power tap (for a 4-lane) looks like this from underneath:











And like this from above:











And the underneath view gives a pretty big hint of what I learned from experience. These terminal sections were not really made for much wild and woolly bending of the connecting metal bands. They are spot welded to the rails, which is all well and good if they're not stressed. Too much bending while modifying the track will break or at least compromise the spot weld - not cool. In my case, minor stress when installing the terminal track to the table weakened a couple welds, so I just soldered wire to them - no biggie, but certainly a deviation from the plan and the overall concept. 

So I recommend leaving the metal bands in their original positions, fastened to the track and in their nice little plastic alleyways as much as you possibly can. Glue and strain relief the metal bands as much as you can, too. Also, consider just soldering right to the bands (after cutting the band which connects the grounds) to utilize as much of the factory strain relief as possible. 

It's still a good method for power taps - it uses the existing taps quite elegantly and you don't have to go out and replace all your expensive terminal sections with plain 15" sections and if you solder to a term track, it's much easier going than hitting the tiny rail just right on a regular 15" section.

But I liked the results I got with my other power tap, too, where I simply soldered stranded wire to the regular 15" straights. So two good ways to add power taps. Choose the one that suits your preferences and your comfort with soldered or mechanical joints. Just don't skimp on the strain relief, whichever way you go.

A special thanks to *Crimnick*, whose post on solderless terminal tracks and spade lugs coincidentally fitting so well is where I first learned of this approach. Slick.

Let those amps flow freely. :wave:


----------



## Rolls

*Bordering on Insanity*

I clearly need to get moving on some bordering work around the turns of this insane 4-lane. Numerous complaints have been registered about the lack of proper turn aprons by the slide wide set, especially when they are hitting the outside lanes with their dusty-tired AFX, MT, and XT chassis cars. 

As I ever so slowly secure more and more of the length of the track to it’s luan underlayment, I finally arrived at the middle of the 3 long straights stacked and staggered along the back of the track. This presented what looked like a good opportunity to try out a simple border scheme on the 9”/12” 180 turn that takes you from that middle back straight down to the return straight which runs the length of the table to a ground level banked turn.

To secure that middle back straight, I had to remove the top back straight above it and the big 18”-15”-18” that comes off an up-ramp and feeds that top straight. You can see it all in this picture, but the bottom line is that the flat 180 was completely exposed and desperately in need of some aprons for sliding and crash walls to contain cars that come into that turn too hot and go airborne. Plus, I needed a break from all my recent wiring exploits.

In this view, the 180 is shrouded by the 18-15-18 above it, but you can still see it and also the middle of the back straights that feeds it:











Now with the top back straight and it’s luan underlayment completely removed you can easily see where I need to secure the middle straight to the luan and how exposed the 180 is, which will be the subject of my first try at a border:











Countless hours of studying the forum, the ailes of my local Home Depot and the McMaster-Carr offerings over the past 2 months led me to try railroad cork shimmed up with presto-felt. To afford max slide room, I flipped the cork upside down so it meets the crash wall dead on. The crash wall will be just plastic lattice from the trim section at home depot. I like it’s white color, excellent flexibility, and it should be pretty easy on the airborne cars that meet up with it.

I didn’t want to have screws showing in the cork, so I screwed it in place from below, coming right up through the luan. The cork was very agreeable to this approach. It really worked well. It’s super easy, holds really well, is invisible from above, and you’d expect a little sharp end sticking up, but it isn’t there at all. Cool. Also easy to change up if you rearrange a corner or move or replace the cork.

Looking up from below the 180 turn, disregard the two round head screws with washers. They secure the track to the luan. The third screw is the one that holds the cork in place: 










I really couldn’t believe how well that screw into the cork worked, so I doubled down and tried using the same approach to screw up into the crash wall. The wall needs a smaller, taller screw, and the small target of the wall is tricky, but it works too. Here’s the same view, but with the screw holding up the wall added. 










I extended the cork well into the straights and now it’s really fun to slide around that corner on the fast outside land and wag the tail into the straight. I have an AFX Chevelle stocker (MT), which absolutely loves to slide and it can’t get enough of this corner now. It’s a hoot. It seems to work pretty well so I’ll try it on other turns now as time permits. If you squint, you can see it in this pic where the track is all back together:










I’ll add a few close ups in a minute. Hope it helps others who are sorting out border options. At least for now, the slide wide set has quit their grumbling and gone back to quietly tuning their pickups for seamless powerslides.


----------



## Rolls

More pics of the outcome of the border experimentation:






























Getting closer to Drivers' Stations... can't wait!


----------



## slotnewbie69

jeez!you got a lotta work ahead rolls,that looks great!the insane highway indeed!be great to have a speed trap just for fun with some C.H.P.s!(cue soundtrack)nice work man!all jests aside


----------



## rbrunne1

Looking Great Rolls :woohoo:

I'm going to take a look at the plastic lattice as I've been wondering what to use for walls :freak:

Bob B.


----------



## slotcarman12078

One excellent idea after another!!! Looking great Rolls!!!!!!!!! :thumbsup::thumbsup:


----------



## Rolls

*Driver stations in plexiglas*

Thanks for the encouragement, *slotcarman *and all of you guys! 

*Slotnewbie*, I like your CHP idea! My oldest loves to wait under an overpass on the track and tear after me as I go by.

*RBrunne *- Bob, I hope the lattice works out for you. So far so good here.

Well as this thread shows, I've proceeded from the beginning with a very loosely framed plan. I prioritized the track layout and lots of test and tune and kind of put the accessories to the track on the back burner. 

But it's clear to me now that tackling drivers' stations ties into all that "secondary" stuff. You know, what border do I put around the table, power supply (done), wiring for brakes or not, where to put the stations, etc.

Even with the DS (drivers' station) itself, there are a ton of options and approaches. Well after way too much analysis, I decided on what I really like and it's right here on this super cool commercial track that I first learned about here on HT in a post by *SwamperGene* buried in *AfxToo's* fine thread on panoramic photos.

I absolutely love this track:










So I thought I'd incorporate *AfxToo's* super cool and elegant design for a DS into boxes like on the above track and maybe try the plexiglas with back-lighting idea, too.

But I finally decided I couldn't afford the extra few inches those boxes would would add to my table width. One, my dining room's width is already all ate up with track table and two, I can bend and stretch now and reach a deslot even on the far side of the table and that 3" would actually nix that. 

So I decided to build the DS's flush with the side of the table, sort of built in to the cross-members that this table has every 15". 











And another compromise was needed. Rather than space the DS's evenly, I chose to pair two in one 15" space, leaving a room for drivers on either side, then put another pair in another 15" recess further down the long side of the table. That compromise should work and make the effort to back-light the DS's much simpler. Each driver will have a cubby in the 15" recess next to his side.

So I'd start with a frame like this:











And into it a DS would go on either side of the frame leaving about 4" of space in between, if I used plexiglas blanks sized 5.5" x 2.5. Note that most of the wood in the pic is temporary support while the glue dries on the rectangular frame. I just needed to build it in place to get a good final fit. Of course it's made of yardsticks - what else???

More DS stuff to come very soon...


----------



## Rolls

I'm using AfxToo's design and adapting it a little to fit my situation and my compromises. 

I had 8 of these plexiglas panels cut at TAP Plastics, a plastics supply store which has several sites in California, from what I gather.











They look blue, but it's just a film on either side for protection - they're clear. My idea is to sandwich two of these together for each DS so I can then use a transparency or Duratrans film between the layers. That way I can put any colors/designs/labels that I want on them. I can also print a new film if I add or change anything in the future, like a power light or blown fuse indicator.


I got some screws to run through the frame for connections: 











and put my best worker on it:




















But there were two problems. First, it was surprisingly difficult to get the screws through the frame properly aligned with the holes in the plastic. Worse, when back-lighting is applied, the holes will look kooky because all the light will spill out of them. I wasn't ready to nix the lighting because I had freshened up my LED knowledge extensively in building my timing gantry and I researched the LEDs for this quite a bit and even ordered them.

So we had to go to plan B.


----------



## Rolls

*Plan B*

So I decided to go back to the plastic store and get some 1" cylinder stock and have it cut into 12 1" pieces. Then I attached them to the back plate of the DS. I got shorter screws and attached them to the plexiglas cylinders.






















Then I taped them with electrical tape to block out back-light and attached the wires:











The white lead (hot) has a second wire running from it to power the back-lighting. 



The white lead also has a pretty fast-acting PPTC (Polymer Positive Temperature Coefficient) resettable fuse in line with it. This, together with the also pretty fast acting over-current protection in the power supply gives me my first pass approach to fusing. Fast, easy, cheap and subject to change later, if desired. 












And that DS panel loads into one side the wooden frame (now with a floor, made out of the same luan that was used under the track):























And the frame loads into the table:












Now I need to handle the backlighting and make different color films for each lane.


----------



## Rolls

*Back-lighting the DS*

For back-lighting, I just put another piece of yardstick about a foot behind the drivers’ stations and mounted 4 white LEDs on each side of it. If I unscrew the wooden frame that the panels attach to, I can lower it and you can see the LEDs mounted in the yardstick. 




















The LEDs need a relatively constant current after they turn on and it can vary over only a small range to work properly and not let out their smoke. Unlike the timing gantry, these LEDs are powered by the track power supply, which might normally be at 18V, but it could be as low as 12 or 15 and as high as 22V in normal operation. Worse, the power supply can put out 30V max. So they really want a constant current source that turns on at about 12 or 15V and then holds steady even if the power is inadvertently turned up to 30V. 

I put four LEDs in series for each DS (Drivers’ station). In this case a simple resistor to limit current won't cut it, so I gave each DS has its own constant current supply. If you Google “LM317 constant current” you’ll quickly see how cheap and easy this is. All you need is an LM317 voltage regulator IC and a single resistor to set the current. It’s maybe a dollar in parts. 

Because the LEDs for each DS are powered by the fused power to its lane, if the fuse blows, then it’s lights out for that DS.

Here’s the back side of the LED circuit “board.”











A center panel will cover the center opening between the two DS’s, but for now, you can see the LEDs if you look through the center at an angle:











With the protective blue film on both sides of both layers of Plexiglas, they glow a nice blue.


----------



## Rolls

*Film for DS*

I drew out a colored panel for each DS (Drivers' Station). I'll have them printed out at a local print shop on Duratrans film. Apparently it's the stuff they use for back-lit displays in retail. It's only $9 to print all four. It should work better than just using a transparency. The film will fit in between the two plexiglas panels that make up each DS.

Each panel (red, white, blue, yellow) has the connections marked in white, black and red. If the lane fuse blows, the lights for that DS go dark. If the power supply current limiting kicks in, all stations go dark.

Since I can print pretty much anything on the film, we decided to name the insane 4-lane. We settled on *"Redline Raceway"* and I made up a little tach logo for the stations. 










I sure was wishing I had *DSlot's* great drawing skills when
I was making this tach.



Still, it'll be good to finally peel that protective blue film off of 
the plexiglas panels. :thumbsup:






Here's a shot of part of the film I'll have printed 
for the blue and yellow stations. Red and white are more 
of the same and my posts are already way too photo 
download intensive.










Glad to be getting these finished up finally (for now, at least - I reserve the right to add more bells & whistles later). 

I'm grateful for all the DS experience and expertise I've found on this super cool forum and especially so to *AfxToo* for drawing up and sharing a great design. :thumbsup:

Hope my rambling path through DS land helps others as they tackle this part of their build - even if it mainly serves as a good example of what not to do!

-Rolls


----------



## tjd241

Freak'n Fantastic Rolls... You have miles and miles of talent. :thumbsup::thumbsup:

btw.... LOVE the logo "as is"... it's yours, unique, *really* don't change a thing.


----------



## rbrunne1

Rolls - Totally Awesome! Love the name & logo!

BTW - The plastic lattice is working great!


----------



## AfxToo

Wow, that looks totally amazing. I can't wait to see it all come together into a finished masterpiece. I am in awe of your ingenuity and creativity.


----------



## slotcarman12078

Ditto, ditto, ditto!!!! Unreal brainstorming Rolls!!! Incredible ideas coming out of Belmont! :thumbsup::thumbsup:


----------



## slotnewbie69

hey rolls those driver stations are nifty!love the back lighting idea!


----------



## Crimnick

"A special thanks to Crimnick, whose post on solderless terminal tracks and spade lugs coincidentally fitting so well is where I first learned of this approach. Slick."

Wow...I'm truely honored sir!

A very special your welcome!

I really love your driver stations...one of these days I'm going to have to get into playing with some LED's...


----------



## Rolls

Thanks so much, guys. Your kind words are greatly appreciated!!

Not too much new stuff to post now and probably for a little while. I'm doing lots of slow, tedious work (more cork aprons, plastic lattice crash walls... would make for very boring posting material). A hundred and one loose ends. I ain't quittin' though! Quite the opposite - we've been taking lots of "build breaks" where I just kick all the tools under the table, blow off the latest round of sawdust and debris, and we race 'til our trigger fingers are sore. I am absolutely loving it! More than I thought I would, even. :woohoo:

I am starting to think about what kind of sideboards or side molding I'm gonna put up around the whole track. Nothing's clicked yet. That's gonna be a toughie with the multiple levels. I've seen a few things I really like, but adapting them to my deal is not easy. Something will percolate up, though, I hope. 

Continued thanks, guys, for all the help, expertise, ideas and encouragement. You guys ROCK! :thumbsup::thumbsup:


----------



## Rolls

*Drivers' stations installed with Duratrans film*

I continue to be busy with boring stuff like borders and tuning various sections of the track, so I won't bore you with that. But the DS film did come back from the print shop and I popped them in a while ago, so I thought I'd do a quick post showing them. 






































I'll fill in the center panel once I figure out how I'm going to do sideboards for the track overall - they were not intended to be controller shelves, as they've sort of become temporarily. Also, don't be too alarmed at the makeshift controller connections. I recently got the proper white/black/red alligator clips and will be wiring them in shortly, along with a short (maybe 18"?) extensions to the Parma cords.

They don't look quite as good as I was hoping for, but they're good enough. They work great, though. Easy to use, quick to recover from a kicked or yanked out cord, and with the flush mount, they're never in the way.

Gotta go turn some laps! :wave:


----------



## tjd241

Like'n the logos. Great job. :thumbsup:


----------



## AfxToo

Amazing work, very professional looking.


----------



## rbrunne1

The driver's stations are awesome :thumbsup:


----------



## slotcarman12078

Voted #1 best use of a dining room!!! :lol: Those driver stations came out perfect!!! I bet they look fantastic back lit in low light conditions!! Great job rolls, and awesome thinking on your part. There's some serious brain power behind that whole design!!! :thumbsup::thumbsup:


----------



## Rolls

Funny - in my slot car googling I came across this track posted on a forum called DadStaysHome.com...

I guess were spreading the word! :hat:

Funny.


----------



## slotcarman12078

Oooo!!! You're famous!!! :lol:


----------



## bobhch

*Simply amazing....*

Rolls,

Holy Moly your track is Kick man! I spend most of my time in the Custom car and gerneral slot section of HT. Have been working on my layout today and decided to check out the track section of HT.

Well I just looked through all of this thread and man oh man is this a sweet layout. Now I gotta get back to my layout. :thumbsup::thumbsup:

Bob...you have one wicked layout rolls...zilla


----------



## Rolls

My older brother and I just tore the heck out of about 500 laps on that slowly and ever-progressing track today!! T-jets first, then AFX! Coupla geezers just laughing our butts off. 

Thanks, Bobzilla!!! I'm lovin' all the customs you're throwin' down!!! Who wouldn't???? Please - keep 'em coming!

Rolls


----------



## jobobvideo

Any new pics?


----------



## Rolls

*I like popsicle sticks*

Well, by now I have many more hours of experience in building up turn borders, a.k.a. aprons, than any sane person would want. It turns out I like popsicle sticks. 

I'd chosen strips of cork from my LHS, made for RR tracks, long ago as my main material to bring up the level of my borders on turns, so the outside lane driver can slide to his hearts desire. It's well documented that the cork falls irksomely short of being level with the track - in my case, Tomy. 

There are many ways to solve this explained here on HT. I used the sticky backed felt sheets from Michael's with some success. But lately I've had this problem on some of the borders:



I have large temp swings seasonally and even daily in my track room, so that might be the culprit behind the unhitching of the felt pad, because I know the felt works well for many HTers. 

Lately, I've switched to using popsicle sticks. I like them better. I drop a dab of glue mid stick and plop them down like this:



They're easy to place and they leave a nice gap to drill a starter hole for my screw. I attach the cork coming up from below with a half inch #6 wood screw.




From underneath the luan support, the flat head wood screw on the left is the one securing the cork. (The other two are machine screws which secure the track.)




The popsicle sticks give me a good stable base for the cork and the height is perfect. 




Even with a dab of Elmer's in the middle of ea. stick, if I had to, I could pry them up later without any real trouble.


They're also cheap. A dollar or two gets you a box of 7 gazillion sticks at Michael's. So that's nice.


----------



## slotcarman12078

I woulda never thunk of that!! Great thinking Rolls!! There are some pretty cool low buck innovations in this thread!! :thumbsup::thumbsup: I forgot all about the machine screw track hold downs.. I need a refresher.. back to page 1!! :lol:


----------



## Dusted

*Thank you*

Very nice how too and great looking track. I copied all your ideas so I can use them when I setup my track.
Thank you for taking all the time it took to write it all down for us.


----------



## rbrunne1

Over 6 mos without a post...time to bump this thread back to the top


----------



## bobhch

rbrunne1 said:


> Over 6 mos without a post...time to bump this thread back to the top


yEAH I'm glad you did bump this rbrunnel1 as there is a bunch of Rolls information that is going to help me out...thanks Rolls for posting up such an information filled "How you built it" track thread!!

This is a great inspirational thread. :thumbsup::thumbsup:

Bob...time to go work on my track now...zilla


----------



## rbrunne1

Bump...there are many great tips here :thumbsup:


----------



## JordanZ870

...and BUMP again. Rolls, where are you?
How is the track coming along?


----------



## rbrunne1

Bump...a must read for any new track builders


----------



## Rolls

Bump... where is this Rolls guy??


----------



## Milton Fox Racing

:nerd:


----------



## Rolls

Did I mention that Redline Raceway became sanctioned for night racing? It’s true. The addition of LED lighting made it so. Lame photos included. 






The LEDs are simply pushed through small holes drilled in the thin plywood, or luan, that supports the elevated runs of track. The super thin gauge low current wiring is laid above the luan but underneath the track. Each string of LEDs consists of the same number of LEDs and is powered by a small adjustable power supply, so they’re dimmable.


----------



## rbrunne1

Nice! Glad to see that you're still racin'


----------



## Rolls

Right back atcha, Bob!


----------



## Rolls

Moving day! The track will make the move to the new house, but it will take some doing. You see, the track is on the second floor and is not a stairway friendly size.


----------



## Milton Fox Racing

Pics of solution?


----------



## Rolls

Milton Fox Racing said:


> Pics of solution?


Of course!









Against all odds, it made it through the move perfectly.


----------

