# Decals and Markings - 1/350 Enterprise



## CLBrown (Sep 8, 2010)

While The old "IDIC Page" is long gone now, sadly, I kept some of the pages from there, and have a lot of photos and references.

One thing that I noticed when I last saw the "post-1991 rework" Enterprise at the Smithsonian was that most of these were removed. Apparently, the renovators (Ed Miarecki and several others, some of whom will remain nameless I guess) didn't think that these were "real" markings, and assumed that they'd been added in the 1974 "mini-renovation."

However, apparently William got ahold of the original decal records for the 11' model, straight from an "inside source" at Paramount, back in the 70s, and here's what he was able to say. Unfortunately, I don't know where all of these are, only a few, and with the page lost, I can only point out a few of them.

Again, according to McCullars, this is from the original Paramount "source info" he got ahold of.

***************

TOS Enterprise Studio Model Decal Replacement Sheets

ORIGINAL STAR TREK ENTERPRISE SPACESHIP DECALS


Examples of U.S.S. Enterprise Decals:

Type Approx. # Decals Size Color(s)

U.S.S. ENTERPRISE 1 1 7/8” Black/Gold on Green
(1 forward; the “U” is missing--used to repair the spaceship name)

U.S.S. ENTERPRISE 4 1 7/8” Black/Gold on Green
(2 forward/2 reversed)

NCC-1701 6 3 3/4”” Black/Gold on Green
(3 forward/3 reversed)

NCC-1701 8 1 7/8” Black/Gold on Green
(3 forward/5 reversed)

NCC-1701 2 1” Black/Gold on Green
(1 forward/1 reversed)

NCC-1701 8 7/16” Black/Gold on Green
(3 forward/5 reversed)


Various Vent, Access & Antenna Identifiers
4 sets of 17 individual Identifiers (68) Approx. 6 point type Black on Gold Background

10 sets of 17 individual Identifiers (170) Almost microscopic Black on Gold Background
Examples of minature decals:
"Inspection Door Vent Systems Connections"
"Nitrogen Purge Reducer Valve Access"
"Tail Pipe Socket Adjustment Access"
"Press Regulator Static Vent"
"Oxygen Vent"
"Taillight Electrical Equipment Access"
"Nitrogen Purge System Discharge Indicators"
"Hatch Access"
"Equipment Hatch"
"Explosive Bolt Access"
"Ground Lock"
"Hydraulic Access"
"Stop Bolt Locked Here"
"Radio Compass Sense Antenna"
and more

(Note: The wet transfer decals are of lacquer base on green decal paper. The gold, referred to above, is the color of the aged lacquer outline of the black lettering. In addition to decals for the original 11-foot studio model, the sheets also include decals for the "three-footer.")

***************

I know that the "Inspection Door Vent Systems Connections" marking was just below the starboard side, lower primary hull "yellow door." I presume that this was for an access panel just below the door, with that door being an "inspection door" and the panel below it being a cover for "vent system connections."

And I know that the "Tail Pipe Socket Adjustment Access" was at the aft edge of the nacelle pylon (essentially opposite of the 1384 "waterline mark").

But I really don't know the exact locations of any of those other markings. So, I'm hoping someone else will have that information. Anyone here have it, and is able to share it?

There's a lot of good information that McCullars had there which, I hope, is not lost forever. There are quotes from Richard Datin about the original construction of the model (such as "The original model was smooth and didn't show any lines or marks, except for the lettering and numbers...(The renovators) had scribed lines to indicate panels, changing the character of the whole model," which was taken from an interview with Datin from the July 1996 issue of Cinefantastique), and some further analysis about the wrong color of paint used to rework the model.

EDIT: It turns out that there's a way to see SOME of McCullars's old page, in fact... even though it's gone. Try this link:

http://web.archive.org/web/20060212004302/http://members.aol.com/IDICPage/enterprise.html


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## Kit (Jul 9, 2009)

You know, this is the kind of information that seems most useful to the designers of the kit, especially with so much detail, really a lot for a board where we're all gabbing away. May I make a suggestion? Why not take all this work and present it to Round 2? 


It could just be me. I really like the fast exchange on the boards, and find it difficult to wade through the long posts in threads I want to follow, with rare exception.


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## Prologic9 (Dec 4, 2009)

If all of those are real, they were likely just a bunch of little bits they made up so they could apply to the ship later on at their choosing. 

Only the two you mentioned appear to have ever been used. (edit; there are two "inspection door..." decals on the lower saucer, formatted differently)


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

At 1/350 scale they would be unreadable, so for me not a "Must Have" with the model.


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## Ductapeforever (Mar 6, 2008)

A classic case of 'Rivet Counting". I'll pass. There's a point where modeling is taken too far.


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## Prologic9 (Dec 4, 2009)

RSN said:


> At 1/350 scale they would be unreadable, so for me not a "Must Have" with the model.


To give an easy comparison, the signs that are on there are about the size of one of the rectangular windows. That's hardly a detail too small to notice.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

No detail is too small to consider. I think I have the IDIC images squirreled away somewhere. If they're not included on the decal sheet and they _were _on the ol' girl, I'll find a way to get 'em on there. Odds are JTGraphics or PNT will be front and center with a supplementary sheet.


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

Prologic9 said:


> To give an easy comparison, the signs that are on there are about the size of one of the rectangular windows. That's hardly a detail too small to notice.



I didn't say they would not be noticeable, I said they would be unreadable at the scale the model will be and if they are not included, I won't freak out and not buy the model. Just my opinion on it.


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## CLBrown (Sep 8, 2010)

On a model of this scale.. at 1:350, assuming a 947' length (which I assume R2 is proceeding from), the model will be 32 15/32" long. Each of these little "text" notes will be roughly 3/16 of an inch wide, and roughly 1/8 of an inch tall.

Anyone who's built aircraft models has put on MUCH smaller markings, and knows that these can be both legible and help to add a sense of "reality" to their model.

You can argue that because you could never see them on-screen (although you can, they just look like small darker patches on a 1960s color TV), they're not relevant. But in this case, I disagree.

It will be trivial to add them to the decal sheet, and even if they're not on there, someone will make them available. I can make 'em myself if I need to, though I'd rather not, all things considered (there are folks who, through experience, will certainly be able to do a much better job than I ever would!)

Seriously... look at the shuttlecraft decals for the current 1:350 "refit" ship. Those are smaller and more detailed than these little text blocks would need to be.

I'm just unclear which, if any, were actually used. I know for certain about the "tailpipe" one next to the nacelle pylon, and the "air valve access panel" one, though I was confused about which of the underside doors this goes next to (it's one of the gray ones, not the yellow one... the yellow one has a different, and (to me, presently unknown) label. I THINK that there's one by each of those underside-primary-hull access doors. I think that there's one on either side of the impulse engine stack, but that could be my eyes tricking me.

You guys may be right that these were not all used... but some were, certainly, and I'm not sure about what goes where at this point.


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## Joeysaddress (Jun 16, 2006)

The "tailpipe" decal was at the base of the warp pylon on the rear of the secondary hull. The "Inspection Door..." was on the lower saucer along with another decal that I think says the same thing. Both were near the darker gray rectangle and square markings on the bottom of the primary hull. They were all three included on the Master Replicas TOS E and I can read them with a magnifying glass.


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## jgoldsack (Apr 26, 2004)

I'll just make my own if I want them.


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## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

CLBrown said:


> One thing that I noticed when I last saw the "post-1991 rework" Enterprise at the Smithsonian was that most of these were removed. Apparently, the renovators (Ed Miarecki and several others, some of whom will remain nameless I guess...


Thanks for the insight, but is it really necessary to take thinly-veiled potshots at other HobbyTalk members? We all know the "whom" to which you're referring.

You accuse others of ganging up on you CL, but if that's the case it may be because of your seeming inability to bite your own tongue.

I couldn't care less how you conduct yourself off this forum, but while you're here I for one would appreciate it if you'd kindly keep your snarky resentments to yourself.

I've seen other generous and knowledgable sources driven away from Hobbytalk by sniping know-it-alls, and I'd hate to see it happen again.

This is not a call to close the thread, but it is a call to knock off the petty asides which offer NOTHING to the substance of the discussion.


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## CLBrown (Sep 8, 2010)

Tell ya what, Carson... give the exact same "warning" to those who've said similarly "thinly veiled" comments about OTHER posters here, including but not limited to me, and then you'll have the moral standing to say that.

You can't apply one set of rules to one group and another set to another.

And I'd argue... re-read your own post. You just made far worse comments about me, just now, didn't you? 

My comment: "the renovators (Ed Miarecki and several others, some of whom will remain nameless I guess)"

Your comment: "sniping know-it-alls"

Since you're no longer the mod in here, shouldn't that make you subject to penalties? Just curious if you see the irony of that...

And by the way, the topic here is "markings." Do you have anything to add which is on-topic?


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## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

CLBrown said:


> Tell ya what, Carson... give the exact same "warning" to those who've said similarly "thinly veiled" comments about OTHER posters here, including but not limited to me, and then you'll have the moral standing to say that.


It was not a warning, merely a request. Thankfully it is no longer my responsibility to enforce policy around here. 

As for my remarks, they are in direct response to your catty swipe at another member – a member I would prefer not to see driven away by such childish B.S.

The real (and sad) irony of this situation is your pathetically transparent attempt to play victim when in fact you’re the one who’s going out of his way to be rude and offensive. You’re like Nixon or Joe McCarthy in that regard… you take cheap, baiting shots at those who's opinions threaten your fragile ego, or at those who object to your bullying tactics, and then when they have the temerity to object you accuse them of ganging up on you unfairly. Sadly, it's a pattern some of us have seen before.

Given your troublesome track record on this and other forums I’d think you’d finally, at long last, begin to question if perhaps your own behavior wasn’t at fault. Cry foul all you like, but at the end of the day you're your own worst enemy.


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## CLBrown (Sep 8, 2010)

Do you have anything to add to the topic or not, Carson? If so, please do. If not...


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## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

CLBrown said:


> Do you have anything to add to the topic or not, Carson? If so, please do. If not...


Thanks for the kind offer CL, but for the time being I've said my piece.


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## jheilman (Aug 30, 2001)

Joeysaddress said:


> The "tailpipe" decal was at the base of the warp pylon on the rear of the secondary hull. The "Inspection Door..." was on the lower saucer along with another decal that I think says the same thing. Both were near the darker gray rectangle and square markings on the bottom of the primary hull. They were all three included on the Master Replicas TOS E and I can read them with a magnifying glass.


Yeah, to my knowledge those are the three used. Here is where I positioned them on my CG model and the individual panels close up. I probably had IDIC page pics somewhere for my original reference, but that was about 13 years ago and I have no idea where they are now. I made mine with a gold background, but that was probably simply the original backing material having yellowed.


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## Paulbo (Sep 16, 2004)

jheilman said:


> ...I made mine with a gold background, but that was probably simply the original backing material having yellowed...


Good thought that. I saw the model pre-restoration shortly after it was originally installed in the Smithsonian, and seem to remember thinking that those markings looked like the edges were curled. I don't know that I still have the slides I took during that visit, but I'll definitely have to pull them out before the kit hits the shelves.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Found this in my stash


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## CLBrown (Sep 8, 2010)

John P said:


> Found this in my stash


Now that's a GREAT shot.. Thanks!


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## Ductapeforever (Mar 6, 2008)

Mr. Brown has been reported to the moderators, stop the insults, bickering and personal attacks. Grow up and act like an Adult if you want to remain here. BEHAVIOR OF THIS NATURE IS NOT WELCOME AT HOBBYTALK.


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## CLBrown (Sep 8, 2010)

Ductapeforever said:


> Mr. Brown has been reported to the moderators, stop the insults, bickering and personal attacks. Grow up and act like an Adult if you want to remain here. BEHAVIOR OF THIS NATURE IS NOT WELCOME AT HOBBYTALK.


You've got to be kidding.

I've been reported, because Carson came into the thread and ripped into me on a personal level, while I'm trying to have a conversation about the model.

Got it.


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## Griffworks (Jun 24, 2002)

Two things: 

1) Veiled insults after being warned specifically about such got CLBrown a 7 Day BAN; 

B) other people hurling insults at CLBrown does not a Wrong, Right. Use the REPORT POST button and let Hank or myself handle it. Another such TOS Violation by those folks will result in an official Warning against their accounts and those folks have now been contacted about such conduct; and 

iii) I'm leaving this thread open FOR NOW, but as soon as anything about another members actions is mentioned it gets locked and the offenders gets a 7 Day BAN. 

Now, let's all make another attempt to act more civil to each other, please.


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## Joel (Jul 27, 1999)

Before this thread gets closed, just want to add that Don Matheys was able to make a set of decals for the 22" cut-away kit that included those markings with the gold background. 

I never did get far with that kit - kids,work and life in general got in the way. But I still have that sheet.


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## Griffworks (Jun 24, 2002)

Thomas Sasser of PNT Models also added those additional markings to some of his decal sheets (I don't think they were on the 1/1000 sets) prior to the DLM set. I want to say that JT Graphics has them in one of his decal sets, as well. Don't recall anyone else adding them, tho.


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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

I'm pretty sure the gold border is just the decal yellowing. I seem to recall seeing some pics of those decals on the model from before the yellowing became noticeable.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Somewhere there was "gold border" discussion, either here or at SSM, that had some good evidence that it actually existed, put there as a way to make the letters and numbers stand out better from the gray hull.


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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

I think that was put to rest when that teacher who has the decal sheet showed it off at a con. It's decal yellowing.


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## jheilman (Aug 30, 2001)

Yup, I agree with that. That explains why the cut edges of the one under the saucer are so rough. If it had a deliberate color in the background, they probably would have taken some care to make a square cut. If the background was clear decal film, didn't matter at the time. Only after the film yellowed was it seen. Did some more digging in my archives and found this. The real deal owned by the teacher previously mentioned. I took this in 2003. Craig now lives close to my home town and was a very nice and enthusiastic guy to talk to.










I'm betting most here know the story. But if not. Archived IDIC Page story


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## WarpCore Breach (Apr 27, 2005)

At one time, someone (forget who) had TOS registry sheets available for sale with gold-bordered black lettering idea. As I recall, these were offered shortly after the pics with the yellowed borders came to light and even then there was a fair bit of discussion about whether it was intentional border or yellowed decal sheet.

Still, doing the gold-bordered lettering was an interesting idea. I never got any of those sheets myself


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## Joel (Jul 27, 1999)

Griffworks said:


> Thomas Sasser of PNT Models also added those additional markings to some of his decal sheets (I don't think they were on the 1/1000 sets) prior to the DLM set. I want to say that JT Graphics has them in one of his decal sets, as well. Don't recall anyone else adding them, tho.


Now that you mention it, it was actually Sasser's decal set that I got. But the DLM accurizing parts kit that I also bought at that time too. I still have the 3 kits that I bought 10 years ago to do the build. But now that this 1/350 set is coming... 

I will say that those clear accurizing parts sure are yellow today. Almost a dark orange now.


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## woof359 (Apr 27, 2003)

i got to go check, which version had the red pin stripping under the saucer ? theres just to many differant markings for me to know pilot from series ship to keep them straight, but keep the info coming, Im thinking a legal size note pad might come in handy (-:


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## Hunch (Apr 6, 2003)

I'll be making my own if the kit does not include them, without the yellowing. This is one of only a handfull of kits I WILL be rivet counting.


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## woof359 (Apr 27, 2003)

*time machine prop*

the 60's Rod taylor machine and movie has a special place for me, one of the first movie I got to go see with my big brother. 

found a link with info some of you may have not seen before.

http://hollywoodlostandfound.net/props/timemachine.html


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## WarpCore Breach (Apr 27, 2005)

Woof, what does the Rod Taylor Time Machine have to do with TOS _Enterprise_ markings...????


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## alensatemybuick (Sep 27, 2015)

jheilman said:


> Yup, I agree with that. That explains why the cut edges of the one under the saucer are so rough. If it had a deliberate color in the background, they probably would have taken some care to make a square cut. If the background was clear decal film, didn't matter at the time. Only after the film yellowed was it seen. Did some more digging in my archives and found this. The real deal owned by the teacher previously mentioned. I took this in 2003. Craig now lives close to my home town and was a very nice and enthusiastic guy to talk to.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Sadly, even using the "Wayback Machine" I was unable to view the now-defunct IDIC page and thus completely follow this old discussion. I am especially curious about what you meant, jheilman, about the rough edges of the "Inspection Door Vent system Connections" decal that was located on the underside of the saucer until the 1991 restoration.


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## KUROK (Feb 2, 2004)

Did those original sheets sell and if so how much?


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## alensatemybuick (Sep 27, 2015)

I think the ones Mr. Thompson (or his representative?) was selling did not sell, but they may have sold post-auction. The photo of the full sheet from THAT auction had missing registry numbers (presumably used for the 33 inch model?) in the upper right section.


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## alensatemybuick (Sep 27, 2015)

Joeysaddress said:


> The "Inspection Door..." was on the lower saucer along with another decal that I think says the same thing. Both were near the darker gray rectangle and square markings on the bottom of the primary hull.





jheilman said:


> Yeah, to my knowledge those are the three used. Here is where I positioned them on my CG model and the individual panels close up. I probably had IDIC page pics somewhere for my original reference, but that was about 13 years ago and I have no idea where they are now. I made mine with a gold background, but that was probably simply the original backing material having yellowed.


Was Googling for something else entirely (photos of the saucer underside), and ended up coming back to this thread again.

I wonder if the third label at the "12 o'clock" position under the saucer could in fact have read "equipment hatch". Are there ANY photos of the 11 footer taken prior to 1991 that depict what that label says?


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## alensatemybuick (Sep 27, 2015)

I think based on the attached photo I just found following a Google image search, my theory above is implausible. The resolution is not there to read the sign, but it is clearly wider than the decal at the "9 o'clock" position, and the word spacing suggests it can only be the wider "inspection door..." decal.


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## GimpyJohn (May 10, 2015)

Fascinating discussion!


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## whereisanykey (Sep 25, 2011)

alensatemybuick said:


> I think based on the attached photo I just found following a Google image search, my theory above is implausible. The resolution is not there to read the sign, but it is clearly wider than the decal at the "9 o'clock" position, and the word spacing suggests it can only be the wider "inspection door..." decal.



The picture I have of that says "Inspection Door Vent Systems Connections".


Greg


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## JediDad (Dec 5, 2009)

Is this the photo that CLbrown was referring to:


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## JediDad (Dec 5, 2009)

Is this the photo that CL was referring to:


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Tail Pipe Socket Adjustment!?
:lol:


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## alensatemybuick (Sep 27, 2015)

John P said:


> Tail Pipe Socket Adjustment!?
> :lol:


Well, the thing's gotta have a tailpipe...


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## JGG1701 (Nov 9, 2004)

alensatemybuick said:


> Well, the thing's gotta have a tailpipe...


Agreed!
-Jim G.G.


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## Joel (Jul 27, 1999)

Just to help out a bit...

The IDIC page still lives at web.archive.org

http://web.archive.org/web/20080204122447/http://members.aol.com/IDICPage/main.html

The main TOS Enterprise model page...

http://web.archive.org/web/20080209230117/http://members.aol.com/IDICPage/enterprise.html

And here is the page on the decals...
http://web.archive.org/web/20080719145421/http://members.aol.com/IDICPage3/DoNotRead.html


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## alensatemybuick (Sep 27, 2015)

From:

http://treknographics101.prophpbb.com/topic531-20.html

I noted the following diagram and text (thanks to the amazing as always research efforts of Shaw):

"Looking at the best shots I have of the studio model, it looks like the production team used existing signage decals from the decals sheets of the two Enterprise models." 





















Inspection Door Vent Systems Connection

Equipment Hatch


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## alensatemybuick (Sep 27, 2015)

deleted


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