# New league in KC. Suggestions?



## smalltime (Jun 3, 2006)

For two years Hotracks, in Independence, Mo. http://www.hotracks.us/ has hosted a wednesday night league for twelve volt cars. We were the first to run both Wizzard Thunderstorm and G-Jets together. It was a very successfull venture untill about six months ago, and the decision was made to make a change.

We will start running stock width T-Jets on wednesdays and have a decent amount of folks interested and committed. There are about four or five guys that are decent builders and they can help out the newbees. 

We are thinking of starting out with a reduced voltage for the first couple of races. Do you all think this would be an option? Or should we leave it alone?

BTW anyone interested in showing up can PM me.


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## wheelszk (Jul 8, 2006)

Tim,
Are you talking box stock or with mods?


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

smalltime said:


> It was a very successfull venture untill about six months ago.


What happened then?


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## smalltime (Jun 3, 2006)

wheelszk said:


> Tim,
> Are you talking box stock or with mods?


MAHOR stockers.
Pretty much a Fray car but at 1.085 width and skinny tires. 

As they run now, you pretty much have to detune them to get them to drive more than a lap. 

They are very fun.


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## smalltime (Jun 3, 2006)

Bumpin' this one.......
I've been retrofitting the Fray fleet to stockers. 

WoW! I've got some stuff. These guys need to look out.


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## bearsox (Apr 22, 2006)

smalltime said:


> MAHOR stockers.
> Pretty much a Fray car but at 1.085 width and skinny tires.
> 
> As they run now, you pretty much have to detune them to get them to drive more than a lap.
> ...


Tim are they Independent fronts too ? I forget as it has been several years since i raced a MAHOR stocker. If so what do guys use brass or delrins these days ? 

Thanks Bear :wave:


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## smalltime (Jun 3, 2006)

That's open, pretty much anything you want to run is fine, as long as it's under 1.085 width.

I've gone back to a basic Zoomin delrin front w/a .064 axle and not independent. It's so important to have a true spinning wheel/tire combo. The brass fronts are fine and I have a few chassis running them too, but it tends to add coast, and also wear out tires sooner.

Of course the Rutherford whites are the tire of choice.


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## wheelszk (Jul 8, 2006)

I thought Dennis stoped making stuff?


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## bearsox (Apr 22, 2006)

smalltime said:


> That's open, pretty much anything you want to run is fine, as long as it's under 1.085 width.
> 
> I've gone back to a basic Zoomin delrin front w/a .064 axle and not independent. It's so important to have a true spinning wheel/tire combo. The brass fronts are fine and I have a few chassis running them too, but it tends to add coast, and also wear out tires sooner.
> 
> Of course the Rutherford whites are the tire of choice.


Hi Tim ,
The delrin fronts both independent and static i have and still sell so i'm set there . I'm curious as to the brass fronts and what guys are doing for them ? I probably have a set or 2 of of JW's 1.085 brass fronts but wonder if there is another ? Also curious as to aluminum and does anyone ever run that on the front ? Thanks for the help and info .

Bear :wave:


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## bearsox (Apr 22, 2006)

wheelszk said:


> I thought Dennis stopped making stuff?


There may be a way to find some of that stuff here. http://ballsoutho.webs.com/ 

Bear :wave:


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## smalltime (Jun 3, 2006)

bearsox said:


> Hi Tim ,
> The delrin fronts both independent and static i have and still sell so i'm set there . I'm curious as to the brass fronts and what guys are doing for them ? I probably have a set or 2 of of JW's 1.085 brass fronts but wonder if there is another ? Also curious as to aluminum and does anyone ever run that on the front ? Thanks for the help and info .
> 
> Bear :wave:


Some guys are shortening the fray width RTs, or getting the JWs. As far as the aluminum wheels, they look awsome, but are almost imposible to get on straight.

I'm pretty much sold on the whole lighter is better concept. If you add weight, you make those tiny little rear tires do more.

Light wieght, light pickup shoe tension.:thumbsup:


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## Rolls (Jan 1, 2010)

Smalltime, What's your take on why the 12V car series was successful, then six months ago it wasn't? What made it lose its steam? -Rolls


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## RT-HO (May 27, 2009)

smalltime said:


> Some guys are shortening the fray width RTs:


Hi Tim,

You don't have to modify the fray width wheels.
I have been making 1.085 indepenent fronts in brass or delrin for years.

Rick


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## smalltime (Jun 3, 2006)

Rolls said:


> Smalltime, What's your take on why the 12V car series was successful, then six months ago it wasn't? What made it lose its steam? -Rolls


Pretty much the perfect storm hit (no pun intended)

The luster was gone from the new stuff, the locals had reduced their hobby outlay due to economic reasons, and the shop changed hands.

As many of you know Hotracks changed ownership and the parts counter took the hit. Not meant to be a slam on the new owner (Hell, Hiram is one of my best freinds) they just couldn't get the parts to support the league any more. We have moved on.

There's also blood on my hands too, I have not promoted it the way I had been. So we turn the page and start a new thing. 

We're running 50 year old chassis.


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## smalltime (Jun 3, 2006)

RT-HO said:


> Hi Tim,
> 
> You don't have to modify the fray width wheels.
> I have been making 1.085 indepenent fronts in brass or delrin for years.
> ...


And I have many sets, they are awsome.

The reason guys are modifying the fray stuff is that they are switching BACK to the stockers, and they already have the fray width ones. It's REALLY hard to win a main in this town if you are runnig a FRAY car.:freak:

I do use your stuff alot and I also use Paul's stuff (Zoomin) along with JWs. I try to split my dollars evenly between all three.And now with Scale Engineering out there doing great work also, I'm even more torn.....

Keep up the good work and let us know about the progress of your newest venture.:wave:


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## noddaz (Aug 6, 1999)

*Nice*

Sounds like fun.
And 12 volt does work.
You just have to give it a chance...


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## Brixmix (Dec 2, 2007)

Tim 
Is right It is VERY hard to win a Super stock T-jet race in KC I have tried with only a 3rd as my best finish. I have had the privledge to Win a Stock main and them skinny tires are a blast. It is funny how much different the set ups are for the two classes of cars. I personally like locked front ends in stocks.


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## SuperFist (Aug 7, 2005)

There is no reason to turn the voltage down on experienced racers.
Because you don't want to turn studs into geldings.

Those are some big tracks for go fast T-Jets.
So try 20 volts and everything open for the builds then you don't need any rules.
And 5 minute heats so if something bad happens during a race,
racers at least have time to drive hard to catch the leaders.

__________________


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## smalltime (Jun 3, 2006)

SuperFist said:


> There is no reason to turn the voltage down on experienced racers.
> Because you don't want to turn studs into geldings.
> 
> Those are some big tracks for go fast T-Jets.
> ...


I think we are going to try 18 volts for starters. 

But FIVE MINUTES! Holy hell man!

We're 180 out from that. No T/D for us, We run a 10 lapper in each lane. You start from the s/f line every heat. Everyone has a chance to get a "W".:wave:


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## SuperFist (Aug 7, 2005)

This is a fun and challenging race,
it's a 10 lap elimination race on a 4 or 6 lane track.
It will be a 40 or 60 lap race depending on the track.

Set up the track computer for the first racer to make 10 laps ends the heat.
30 seconds between heats to change lanes.
If you come off during a heat that's all the laps you get for that heat.
So the lead is always changing.
No marshaling except to take cars off the track that are blocking the lanes.
If all the cars come off the track during a heat all the drivers put their cars back on the track and the heat continues.

The drivers who can go fast and keep their cars on the track will win the race.

__________________


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## Lype Motorsport (Mar 14, 2004)

When we had a great group of guys runnin (15-24) T Jet - A/FX ONLY on 12V at our local raceway! Then the "magnet lightbender boys" with their zillion dollar wizzy type 24+V cars, told everyone to take a walk, that they would be the *one and only* class. Well, first race the light bender boys didnt have enough guys to fill a 6 lane.  Then it got worse. 

Their attitudes ran all the other local money spending T Jet-A/FX HO racers off here, except for the state traveling series, and I for one hate chasing points, and hate magnet car politics. The local raceway has run off all the guys who spent money with him, to "kiss up" to the touring series boys, who hardly ever spend any $$ with the local track.

*This is what happened here at my local raceway, as I witnessesed with my own eyes a few years back. This is NOT meant to start a war or words, this is what happened near me, to me and my friends, and caused me to build 1 track and rescue another.*


Larry


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## Ogre (Jan 31, 2007)

Larry,
I think I know the track you are talking about. He talked me into HO while I was still working after I retired and I had more time, I built a 4x8 track in my garage and found out everything had changed to the TOUR. I now wish I had gone to 1/43.


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## smalltime (Jun 3, 2006)

Here are the race rules for our league at Hotracks LMK what you all think. Did I miss anything?



T-Jet racing League Race Rules

League races will be held every Wednesday. Track opens at 6:00 pm. Driver’s meeting at 6:45, Racing starts promptly at 7:00. And ends at 9:00. We will run as many heats as time allows.
The race fee will be $5.00 per driver.

Drivers are responsible for fielding a legal car. We run this league on the honor system, if you have to cheat to win a toy car race, we don’t want you here. If you have a question regarding scrutineering, please ask.

Races will consist of a ten lap heat in each lane. All races will run back to the line. The computer is the last word.

Races will be marshalled. Racers not participating in a heat will be expected to marshall. If there are too many folks working on their cars we will have to impound.

We will shoot for 30 seconds between heats. Have your lane tape handy, and know were you go next. The race director will announce who is up next.

Track selection will be decided by dice roll. We will not race on a track back to back. This will be done when the shop opens at 6:00. We will try to have the track prepared as soon as possible. Feel free to lend a hand.

Scoring will be as follows:

For each heat,
1st place=1 point
2nd place=2 points
3rd place=3 points
4th place=4 points
5th place=5 points
6th place=6 points

All scores will be added up at the end of the night, and posted in the shop.
A champion will be crowned at the last race in February.


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## SuperFist (Aug 7, 2005)

smalltime said:


> Races will be marshalled. Racers not participating in a heat will be expected to marshall. If there are too many folks working on their cars we will have to impound.


If you anticipate people working on their cars instead of marshaling the track and that becomes a problem with some people.
Immediately implement that the race director chooses the marshals for the race and their position.
For the reason that the guys with the longest reach be in a position to do the most good.

Gestapo race directors like me do not tolerate any BS.









__________________


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## Lype Motorsport (Mar 14, 2004)

Ogre said:


> Larry,
> I think I know the track you are talking about. He talked me into HO while I was still working after I retired and I had more time, I built a 4x8 track in my garage and found out everything had changed to the TOUR. I now wish I had gone to 1/43.




Hi Ogre
Where on the east coast are you? Port Orange, here. When my health gets better maybe we can get together sometime! :thumbsup:

Larry


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## SuperFist (Aug 7, 2005)

If you do 10 lap heats instead of timed heats the best racers won't always be in the points lead.

A racer could be off the pace as long as he was faster than the other racers in the race he was in.
And can still be ahead in points over everyone who is faster in another race except the other winner.

I raced in a lap competition where you had to qualify for an A or B group race.
Then the top 3 racers in both groups raced in a main event.
I always qualified last to race and win with the slower B group,
that way I had a guaranteed #2 position in the main.

__________________


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## smalltime (Jun 3, 2006)

There is another group in KC that races T/D.

If the racers want to run in that group the are free to do so. Most of our racers enjoy the short dash style races, that is what works for us.

thanks for the insight


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## smalltime (Jun 3, 2006)

SuperFist said:


> Gestapo race directors like me do not tolerate any BS.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


They also don't have to turn a profit running a slot shop!


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## SuperFist (Aug 7, 2005)

Edited for PM.

__________________


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## smalltime (Jun 3, 2006)

The league has gotten started and we decided to go full power(20 volts) and all went well.

I will get the results so I can post them. The first the first night was a little light in the turnout dept. I think we ended up with seven racers, but we had a great time and did some great racin'.

This week was better, We had a big group of guys come in from Leavenworth along with a good group of MAHOR regulars.

We are also thinking of changing a few things when it comes to chassis rules to stay up with the MAHOR club. They are considering going to 1.125 width for the wheelsets, and I think it would be great. It puts us inline with ECHORR classic class.

Pics to come.


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## Dyno Dom (May 26, 2007)

Just read this thread for 1st time. Is current track owner a participant for racing w/differing interests than prior program? Too bad a great car like G-Jet
took the hit. If local entrees of G-Jets scaled back, have they adopted current format?


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## smalltime (Jun 3, 2006)

Dyno Dom said:


> Just read this thread for 1st time. Is current track owner a participant for racing w/differing interests than prior program? Too bad a great car like G-Jet
> took the hit. If local entrees of G-Jets scaled back, have they adopted current format?


Sorry to pick nits here, but we ran the two brass class cars together, the Thunder staorm and The G-Jet. We really had to work hard to get that done, so that's why I'm "corecting" your statement.
The problem was the climate here in KC is geared so much toward T-Jets, that it was very difficult to keep the thing alive. The track owner actually does not live in the area and was unable to support the Brass class directly.

Right now,there are no other clubs running the brass class around here.


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## Dyno Dom (May 26, 2007)

OK, just curious, thanks. I understood the G-jet was run together with
T-Storms, nice idea as each is a good car.


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## SuperFist (Aug 7, 2005)

When racing a BSRT G-Jet with brass jets like Wizzard Thunderstorm, Slottech P-Jet & T2-Jet.
Since the G-Jet has a 9 ohm armature it should be changed to be competitive.
To an armature that is no lower than 5.8 ohms measured from pole to pole.
Then the G-Jet will have the same ohm armature as the Thunderstorm, P-Jet & T2-Jet.

__________________


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## smalltime (Jun 3, 2006)

SuperFist said:


> When racing a BSRT G-Jet with brass jets like Wizzard Thunderstorm, Slottech P-Jet & T2-Jet.
> Since the G-Jet has a 9 ohm armature it should be changed to be competitive.
> To an armature that is no lower than 5.8 ohms measured from pole to pole.
> Then the G-Jet will have the same ohm armature as the Thunderstorm, P-Jet & T2-Jet.
> ...


Well, for our league, we were focusing on the two brands mentioned. They are what the store sold at the time.

As for the G-Jet needing a different arm to be competitive, we found otherwise.

When you limit tire size to .350 fronts and .450 rears for both chassis, they race very equal. The G Jet hase more downforce, and the Wizzard has more H.P. It all equals out in the end. I have both types and it was very hard to choose which chassis to race sometimes.I usually jacked up the confidence and ran the Wizzard though.

Toward the end, we tried to race them with hardbodies. This was a great time and I think it's what the G-Jet in particular is best at. They are a BLAST!

Because it was so hard to get a hard body on the Wizzard, they were at a disadvantage. I only had two with the hardbodies, but they were very fast and fun to drive.


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## resinmonger (Mar 5, 2008)

smalltime said:


> Because it was so hard to get a hard body on the Wizzard, they were at a disadvantage. I only had two with the hardbodies, but they were very fast and fun to drive.


BRP has some resin bodies that are intended to mount on the Wizzard chassis.

http://www.bat-jet.com/nascar1.html

Hope this helps.


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## Dyno Dom (May 26, 2007)

For the ohm & voltage difference, also body choice, I favor the G-Jet. 
The G-3 chassis is pre drilled for Lexan posts or a nice assortment of hard bodies can easily fit. (AFX, Tomy, Dash & others) I like the higher 9 ohm arm w/lower 12 volts, IMHO, that is the success of the car. A 6 ohm G-Jet or
others mentioned are faster in straights, but not as realistic/smooth in the curves. Lately however, the car has taken some heat. The manufacturer has made some changes of motor magnet up-grades from original. Are the pancake chassis in your current program NOS or other?


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## smalltime (Jun 3, 2006)

resinmonger said:


> BRP has some resin bodies that are intended to mount on the Wizzard chassis.
> 
> http://www.bat-jet.com/nascar1.html
> 
> Hope this helps.


Yep,
I had every intention of getting with Tom and trying some of these. Things kind of wound down too soon though.


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## SuperFist (Aug 7, 2005)

*Test & Tune*

Try stretching Thunderstorm brush springs a little to give it some brake with brush tension.
To dive deeper into the corners to compensate for the faster more powerful armature.
Then see if you can drive around the G-Jet.

What else you can do on a Thunderstorm is change the Vortec armature.
To a stock Wizzard A3P 01 Patriot armature.
To pick one look at the armatures in the package and look for one that has tight even wire wraps,
with no crossed over wires.
Those armatures can be more powerful with minimal vibration.
I have some A3P 01 arms that are better than hot stock balanced arms.

__________________


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