# OT: Looks like NASCAR has a problem on their hands



## smalltime (Jun 3, 2006)

I completely missed this story this week, with all the other stuff going on. And The whole Carl Edwards steeling the win Saturday night with a jumped restart, I just tuned out. But look what I missed:

http://www.nationalspeedsportnews.c...ascar/more-allegations-of-race-fixing-at-rir/

It turns out that Mr Waltrip Isn't as pure as the wind-driven snow. Shame on Clint and Brian, as well as Mr Penske (who I admired up to this point).

The new black sox scandal is what I see in the making.

What say you?


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## TeamMadMarsupial (Dec 23, 2012)

Word is, Junior and Casey may have let off to allow Gordon to gain a couple spots too.

Penske's deal is quite different from the MWR fiasco. If they are gonna pick that apart, lets go through the whole season and see how many times the leader was asked to back off and let a teammate running second lead a lap for the bonus point?????

Now lets look at those little teams running Hendrick, or RCR, or Penske or Roush/Yates engines. We're gonna give you an engine with a few new tweaks, we don't want to put in in our cars cause if it grenades Twinkles Superstar will lose points. Yeah we can add a couple more engines to your lease arangement....no charge.

Where does it end? Now team mate draft with each other to push one to the win. Next time someone bumps a team mate under yellow to keep him going while his engine is shut down to save gas.

I just hope its not gonna keep rolling around until they figure out how to get another Hendrick car in the chase. But then again, they kept changing it until they figured there was no way even a driver with as little talent as Junior would get in the chase.


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## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

racers have always done similar things for team mates and friends.
Dale Earnhardt once had a very good friend who dropped out of a race just after the critical points had been gained by Dale in order to win one of his championships.
these are not rare occasions.
however few have been as easy to "see" as the Waltrip team's.

perhaps NASCAR did the right thing or possibly knee jerk reacted.
only time will tell.
but if you soon see some racers with Mexican Wrestling masks coming into the division don't be surprised.


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## smalltime (Jun 3, 2006)

> but if you soon see some racers with Mexican Wrestling masks coming into the division don't be surprised.


Mucha Loocha!

One of my favorite cartoons!:thumbsup:


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## TeamMadMarsupial (Dec 23, 2012)

I think maybe this whole problem stems from the amount of access everyone has to Nascar today?

They got a camera in everyones nose hole practically. Everyone can listen in on the drivers and crews every word. This stuff and much more has gone on for years with most fans being none the wiser.

Nascar was put in a no win situation by their own desire to open more info to the fan and make everything more accessible to all. Once the whole broadcast crew agreed on national tv that the fix was in, Nascar had to try to save face!

I read where back in the day, France called the whole Elliot clan into the trailer when they first brought those rounded T-Birds to the track. Seems like they were told, we don't mind ya'all winning the races, but you better make it look close, or else you're gonna get your car back in pieces next Friday afternoon.

We would all like to think its just about the racing, but lets face it, it's about entertainment...pure and simple. Well it might be about money too?


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

I don't see what anyone did wrong. Teams helped team mates.
If they want to eliminate this kind of thing, then go back to 1 car teams.
This is specifically why Formula 1 teams are limited to two cars.

I think all this is purposely blown out of proportion because *no one* _*cared*_ the 'chase' was starting.

I can hear Dale Sr. now, "I can't believe they are making this big a deal out of twelfth place."

ANYONE who wins, including the lowly 34 team, should be in the chase.


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## Marty (Oct 20, 1999)

I never cared for the whole "Chase" points system. If you had more points at the end of the season, you were champion.

I would love to see the 13th place team kick butt for the rest of the season and outpoint the "chasers"

MOO

Marty
Marysville, OH


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## FOSTBITTEN (Aug 1, 2013)

Yes they created a monster with the whole chase thing. I have been a lifelong Nascar fan. I am not going to stop watching by any means. But I do think it is going to be interesting to see how Nascar handles things in the future. So far this year has not been very good to them at all.


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## smalltime (Jun 3, 2006)

> I can hear Dale Sr. now, "I can't believe they are making this big a deal out of twelfth place."


Then he didn't understand the reset part of the chase. You get a "reset" on the points with regards to the leaders.

Even if you're 300 points back in the regular season points tally, you get to start much closer to the leader, depending on your wins, laps lead, and most laps lead in a race.

The chase wins you points for free.


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## eastside johnny (May 13, 2008)

NA$CAR has been the biggest manipulator (chase, lucky dog, mystery cautions, unapproved this or that, green, white checkered over & over, etc) in the the history of the sport but shame on you if you do the same. It's ALL about the money & that's the problem......follow the money.
I love motor sports & circle track racing but I could care less about NA$CAR.


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

Oh yeah, the 'reset'.
Yeah, it's like a whole nuther season. Or like the first half never happened.
Ask Jeff Gordon or Kyle Bush what it's like to lose a *400+* point lead when the 'chase' starts.
It's a kick in the stomach teams morale just never seem to overcome.
No ones ever came from twelfth to win the sprint cup, not to say it wont happen.
Nascar tries every year to recreate the magic of the *1992 Hooters 500*.
Every year it wreaks of artificial flavoring. _If only the season would end in a three way tie._
Would they have a 'race off' like in the _Cars_ movie?

I don't know. I'm old school, life long fan. I keep hoping they will pull out of this funk.
The cars this year were a major improvement. The real season is over.

Let the silly season begin...


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## SplitPoster (May 16, 2006)

You go Rich. I gave up hoping/commenting/criticizing/watching a while back. Real drama doesn't happen every caution/race/season/points chase, so when it does for real it is special. 

Drama. MLB: I remember the Yankees/Red Sox one game tie breaker after the 1978 season, and the final day drama last year in the same division. Can't script that kind of finish after a long, grueling season, can you imagine the theatrics they would have to go through just to try? And how much less special it would be for those who prevailed?


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

I don't know if you caught this blurp a couple weeks ago. Both TBS and ESPN are trying to get out of the remaining years of their contract with NASCAR. One would guess it is because ratings, viewership and advertising is down.

The problems they are having after last week's race start to make them look like professional wrestling. If they lose integrity, they lose everything. Even Edwards obvious jump of the restart went unpunished.

NASCAR seems lost and they do a lot to artifically generate excitement. The Chase is one. Frequent (mysterious) cautions that artifically bunch the field back up and eliminate any distance (and cars) you have placed between you and the guy in front and back. Last thing I want to watch is a race where a lot (most?) of the passing happens on pit road.

It gets to be like basketball where you only need to watch the last 2 minutes. If the field is always going to be reset near the end of the race, what's the point of watching the entire thing?

Joe


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

Grandcheapskate said:


> If the field is always going to be reset near the end of the race, what's the point of watching the entire thing?
> 
> Joe


Exactly. And now they do that with the whole season.


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## FOSTBITTEN (Aug 1, 2013)

Now Gordon is in. And Penske is placed double or triple (I lost count) super secret probation. 

My Dad died in August of 2004 & we always talked about Nascar or watched the races together. He said:"They are turning a great sport into game show." 

Can you imagine Bill France Jr. & Sr. looking down of this circus? I do not think they would be pleased at all. 

I really hope this is the wake up call that is needed to bring this whole mess that has been created to an end. The points system is confusing & needs to go. The whole in/out of The Chase needs to go too. If they do keep the Chase it goes by points & you are in or out. End of story. 

Or just make it head to head in a bracket format. It works for College Basketball. This is if they have to keep the Chase thing. I say go back to the old system of most points wins period.

Races are way too long in some cases. Run the short tracks like local tracks quals, heats, & main. Some of the other races could be just shorter period.


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## slotcarman12078 (Oct 3, 2008)

This drama crap is why I avoid TV in general. Since Days of Thunder the sport has been feminized. I guess if they got the chicks interested in it (by adding drama) they would double their viewers. "Turning it into a game show" is spot on!


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## Marty (Oct 20, 1999)

FOSTBITTEN said:


> Now Gordon is in.


So now it is a 13 car chase.

First it was a 10 car chase. 

Big teams whined enough (NASCAR claims it was the fans asking for it) and it became a 12 car chase.


Now Jeffie has whined enough and NASCAR is making it a 13 car chase.

Next it will be the top 25 cars in points get in the chase, just like they do in qualifying. What happened to the fastest car is on the pole. 2nd fastest 2nd place, etc...

Now if your team is in the top 25 in points, you're in no matter how fast you are. Don't forget past champions provisional. Put a past champion in the drivers seat, and you are in.

Dump Toyota, bring back Dodge, dump the chase points system.

MOO

Marty
Marysville, OH


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## Boosted-Z71 (Nov 26, 2007)

Replace the nascrap racing coverage with some Rolex & IMSA coverage, way better racing. 

Boosted


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## Pomfish (Oct 25, 2003)

There are so many lessons to be discussed here, and it will make for great College Courses under the heading of "What not to Do" in business class.

Number one rule, do NOT pizz off the core demographic of the sport.
Check, they did that with the run up to the Chase/Young Guns/Corporate Kiddy/PC Correct Bullshirt.

And, exactly who is the above demographic? 
Old crusty bastards like me who;
Vote with their Wallets, Have long Memories and hold a grudge forever.

So, they finally figure out they pizzed us off after the COT cars and the youth movement and then thought, well, "Boys have at it" policy will bring us back.
And maybe lower the ticket prices by about 40%.

That still didn't work, because the Hotel companies thought they could still rape us and gas still cost a fortune to get to the races, so We decide to stay home and watch big tracks with half-full seats filled and wonder who in their right mind would sponsor such a losing proposition.

Now, they had been exposed to the big money game and Hendrick wrote a big enough check that they can just add a 13th driver to the chase.
Well, Hell, open up the bidding and add 3 more!

Nothing against Gordon, he did get screwed, it is just the irony of them caving into the outrage that humors me.
It screams of desperation.
Sad, really.
Anyway, drama sells and this has been a WWE show from the time Winston Cigarettes stopped sponsoring the series.
That was the beginning of the end, no doubt.

Later,
Keith


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## smalltime (Jun 3, 2006)

And the guy who actually cheated is still in the chase.

Oh the irony.


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## FOSTBITTEN (Aug 1, 2013)

I would not doubt that someone, like a driver or current team owner will start a new series. That will compete directly against nascar. It will be a more open series as far as rules go with the cars. And probably put more emphasis on individual races than on a championship. There would be plenty of tracks they could race on. The ISC owns a lot of tracks & they are not happy with Nascars decision to make The Air Titan so expensive to use each weekend. Among some other things they are not happy about. If Nascar tells the ISc that they cannot host a competing series then the ISC could just simply say we will not host any Nascar events. 

Or Nascar itself will come up for sale. I would say either one of these scenarios will happen in the next 5 to 10 years. If Nascar continues to follow this road.


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## FOSTBITTEN (Aug 1, 2013)

smalltime said:


> And the guy who actually cheated is still in the chase.
> 
> Oh the irony.


Make that 2 guys that cheated are still in the chase. The 22 & the 15.


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## Gear Head (Mar 22, 2005)

3 words for y'all

Australian V8 Supercar

I love cars and just about any kind of racing. I'm not a TV watcher in general and have never in my life made a point of watching anything in particular at a particular time other than the Superbowl, which I know nearly nothing about. However if I happen to be in that rare occasion where I'm killing time and I click on a NASCAR race I'll keep clicking these days. Where as if I click by a V8 Supercar race I will definitely stop and watch as much of it as time allows. That is some good racing and a blast to watch. No circles and you never know what's going to happen from turn to turn and these drivers are not afraid to "rub" at anytime. Cool stuff. Just sayin'


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

Face it, NASCAR is not the only "sport" to artifically create excitement by creating a playoff system.

For a lot of years, hockey was the poster child for using it's regular season to eliminate only a couple teams. Basketball, if anyone still follows it, is at least as bad. Football at least has a reason for a playoff system because there are so few games to the season and many teams end up with the same record; but even they keep adding more teams to the post season. Win your division and still need to play a first round game against a non-division winner - ridiculous.

And finally baseball lost it's integrity to the regular season by breaking into multiple divisions and then adding wildcards. After 162 games, we know who the best team is in each league (assuming there are leagues considering inter-league play) and we don't need a 3, 5 or 7 game series to wipe out an entire season's worth of accomplishments. Nor do we need baseball to play into November. The only benefit to being the best team over 162 is an extra home game? Come on.

Playoff systems are nothing more than money makers. They are artifical and make the regular season nearly insignificant. Run the regular season and crown your champion.

As far as NASCAR goes, here's my suggestion for cutting down on some cheating and making the action happen on the track and not in the pit...

1. No pit stops allowed during a yellow flag.
2. Restarts are single file, head to tail, in the running order when the flag was thrown. If 3 lapped cars are between first and second, the second place car starts in the 5th position. Make him pass, ON THE TRACK AND UNDER GREEN, the same number of cars as the car in front of him.

Make just these two changes and the mysterious yellow flags disappear, pitting becomes all stategy and almost no "lucky timing", and the yellows only last a lap or two. No longer should it take 5 laps to pick up a piece of debris.

Joe


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## FOSTBITTEN (Aug 1, 2013)

The V8 Supercar series is great. But sadly I think since Speed has dissolved I don't know if anyone is going to cover their races. I hope I am wrong about this I love the V8SCs. I would like to see them run a couple of ovals. Kinda like Nascar runs a couple of roadcourses now.

I think restarts are okay the way they are now. Nascar just needs to make a line at each track in view of the flagman when the cars pass the line you go. End of story end of problem. You come to the line at pacecar speed. 

Or look up " Delaware restart" they use this style in dirt racing series now. For Late Models. I would explain it but I have to leave right now.


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## smalltime (Jun 3, 2006)

Good lord, what a terrible showing for "The greatest drivers in the world".

The longest green flag run was like 36 laps or something.

Wow.


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## blue55conv (May 23, 2007)

Is it my imagination, or are Life-Like slot cars dead? They are not in the 2014 Walthers catalog. The newly announced cars are gone from their website. I bring this up because they have the NASCAR license.

NHRA has their version of the chase. It felt weird at first, but it is accepted now.


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## sethndaddy (Dec 4, 2004)

Gear Head said:


> 3 words for y'all
> 
> Australian V8 Supercar
> 
> I love cars and just about any kind of racing. I'm not a TV watcher in general and have never in my life made a point of watching anything in particular at a particular time other than the Superbowl, which I know nearly nothing about. However if I happen to be in that rare occasion where I'm killing time and I click on a NASCAR race I'll keep clicking these days. Where as if I click by a V8 Supercar race I will definitely stop and watch as much of it as time allows. That is some good racing and a blast to watch. No circles and you never know what's going to happen from turn to turn and these drivers are not afraid to "rub" at anytime. Cool stuff. Just sayin'


3 words.........slot car racing.............lol


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## mrstumpy (Oct 5, 2013)

*RE: Looks like NASCAR has a problem...*

I have found this thread very interesting, even going all the way back to the beginning to catch up. I'm new here on Hobby Talk, but certainly not new to auto racing. I was taken to my first automobile race at age four in 1954 by my paternal grandfather who raced Big Cars during the Depression. 

I drove dirt track Stock Cars from 1967 to'75, then became a flagman, then head pit official, and finally just wrapped up over three decades as an announcer for several tracks and an open wheel touring series.

I watch NASCAR on weekends, but by far prefer watching the local heroes battle it out at a local Saturday night speedway. At least there, "the bullpoop stops when the green flag drops" unlike NASCAR. No yellow flags for invisible debris, no posturing for the cameras, no ultra rich team owners trying to influence the outcome. Just good, hard, racing.

NASCAR has certainly lost it's way, and the declining TV ratings and emptying stands show it. The folks at the top seem to have forgotten what they are SUPPOSED to be doing. Big Bill France and his son are no doubt turning in their graves at what has been done to a once great racing organization.

I also have to say that every time I hear some third rate singer or celebrity sing the National Anthem badly and without respect, I feel like throwing the idiot who hired these people from the flagman's stand as the green flag comes out! If you can't do it right, play a CD of someone who can! 

And on an associated subject, let me say this: Fox Sports has been the worst thing to happen to the now lost and lamented SPEED channel.

Stumpy in Ahia...Just another old racer who knows better... :wave:


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## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

what Stumpy said about the National Anthem!


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

blue55conv said:


> Is it my imagination, or are Life-Like slot cars dead? They are not in the 2014 Walthers catalog. The newly announced cars are gone from their website. I bring this up because they have the NASCAR license.


 Yesterday I received a Walther's catalog and there is only 2009-2012 slot stuff listed. It's October and nothing has even been announced for 2013, let alone produced. So the answer appears to be they stopped production.

Joe


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

Today is actually the first race of the chase that feels like a big deal.
Chicago? Dover? Louden? Kansas? Charlotte? What a bore fest. 
I'm surprised Fontana isn't in the chase... twice.
Anytime you go to Talladega it's a big deal. I don't care if they're racing soap boxes.


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

Did anyone see the end of the race? 
Austin Dillon and Casey Mears crashed hard on the last lap.
Last shot they showed Casey Mears car up against the wall with the window net still up.
They never mentioned if he was okay. Nothing on the website. I guess he's okay or it would be news.
I would hate to hear,"By the way, Casey Mears died in a crash this afternoon but there was
so much confetti, fireworks and flyovers that we forgot to mention it."
I guess I'll have to get the story on Wind Tunnel tonight. I hope he's okay, that was a hard lick.


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## smalltime (Jun 3, 2006)

NTxSlotCars said:


> Did anyone see the end of the race?
> Austin Dillon and Casey Mears crashed hard on the last lap.
> Last shot they showed Casey Mears car up against the wall with the window net still up.
> They never mentioned if he was okay. Nothing on the website. I guess he's okay or it would be news.
> ...


Casey is OK.

They mentioned it in passing during the post race thingy. 

I'm glad for Jamie.....he deserved the win.

BTW, there is no more Wind Tunnel.


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## beast1624 (Mar 28, 2009)

smalltime said:


> BTW, there is no more Wind Tunnel.


Right. Boy, ain't it wonderful now that Fox took over Speed channel?


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## mrstumpy (Oct 5, 2013)

*RE: Looks like NASCAR has a problem on their hands*

I'm an old Stock car racer and I really LIKE this thread! Lot's of good observations out there, and of course a few that aren't, but overall it's been very interesting.

If you want to see an exciting "Chase," poll the drivers on which tracks are the hardest for them to drive, or that they just plain hate! I remember Kyle Petty many years ago whining about Darlington; "They should fill it with water and stock it with fish" he said.

Darlington should be in the Chase! (In fact Darlington should get it's Labor Day date back and be the true Southern 500 again. So much for NASCAR's home office BS about "tradition.")

I'd put the nastiest tracks on the circuit in the Chase and make those coddled, millionaire drivers PROVE how good they are! Add a dirt track with real good sticky clay! How long would some of these clowns last if they were driving dirt track Late Models or Modifieds?

Stumpy in Ahia


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## 1976Cordoba (Sep 20, 2000)

mrstumpy said:


> . . .
> Darlington should be in the Chase! (In fact Darlington should get it's Labor Day date back and be the true Southern 500 again . . .
> 
> Stumpy in Ahia



Spot-on :thumbsup:


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## blue55conv (May 23, 2007)

Here is something for you to ponder. AW XT R15 is Vintage Stock Cars. It is scheduled for June 2014. Which cars do you hope are included?


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## 1976Cordoba (Sep 20, 2000)

blue55conv said:


> Here is something for you to ponder. AW XT R15 is Vintage Stock Cars. It is scheduled for June 2014. Which cars do you hope are included?


All-new castings would be great . . . '74 Charger, '77 Monte Carlo, '77 Cutlass 442, '72 Monte Carlo, '70 Superbird . . . ahh a guy can dream, right? :drunk:


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

I'll add a 75 Laguna S-3 and a better 75 Torino.
Maybe repop the Tbird and Magnum.


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