# the martians have landed!



## razorwyre1 (Jan 28, 2004)

my pegasus w.o.t.w. martian arrived yesterday! 
looks to be a great kit. the vinyl is unlike that on any other kit ive seen. its very very thick, on some parts solid! 
it comes with 2 sets of arms so you can pick the pose, and the aliens eye and the eye of the camera lens are molded in clear (as is the base).
a really nice kit for the price.


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## Dr. Syn (May 29, 2003)

I've been waiting to get that kit. Did you buy locally or on line?

Glad to hear it doesn't dissappoint


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## razorwyre1 (Jan 28, 2004)

picked it up (preorder) from culttvman. 

it exceeded expectations!


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

I have to be honest.......I hate vinyl. Manufacturers use it now where before we would have had styrene kits. I'm not saying vinyl doesn't have it's place but I would have thought a plastic kit manufacturer like Pegasus would have done this in plastic like Monarch or Moebius.


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## tr7nut (Apr 18, 1999)

*The figure...*

So is this sort of a bust or does the little guy just not have any legs in this interpretation?


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## Dr. Brad (Oct 5, 1999)

Looking forward to seeing some great dioramas from you all with this kit!


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

This would be an awkward creature to mold in plastic. Vinyl is GOOD for some things. And the kit is NOT a bust... the Martian is just sort of a Mushroomy little guy


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## Dr. Brad (Oct 5, 1999)

Forgot to ask - how tall is the Martian (in the kit, not in reel life) ?


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

djnick66 said:


> This would be an awkward creature to mold in plastic. Vinyl is GOOD for some things. And the kit is NOT a bust... the Martian is just sort of a Mushroomy little guy




Looking at much more complex kits like Monarch's Sinbad, the Ghost, Moebius Invisible Man, The Mummy I find it hard to believe that would be anymore awkward to mould than those.


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## wolfman66 (Feb 18, 2006)

razorwyre1 said:


> my pegasus w.o.t.w. martian arrived yesterday!
> looks to be a great kit. the vinyl is unlike that on any other kit ive seen. its very very thick, on some parts solid!
> it comes with 2 sets of arms so you can pick the pose, and the aliens eye and the eye of the camera lens are molded in clear (as is the base).
> a really nice kit for the price.


I agree with ya all the way and got mine all primed and ready to go:thumbsup:


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## derric1968 (Jun 13, 2003)

SUNGOD said:


> I have to be honest.......I hate vinyl. Manufacturers use it now where before we would have had styrene kits.


I find this remark to be rather curious considering that vinyl kits are pretty much nonexistent these days. In fact, I can't remember the last time a kit company released a vinyl kit.

Regardless, you shouldn't think of the Martian kit as being a traditional vinyl kit. It's engineered in a very different way, with a different type of vinyl. Check out these shots of my kit:

 

The molding on the parts is fantastic, and the parts are designed to "fit like a glove". This kit is so well made that it should be very easy to build and primer in one day. If this was a styrene kit, you would be gluing, sanding and puttying for days!

The only difference in building this kit compared to a styrene kit is the glue. Common super glue should be more than sufficient. The only difference in painting is that you can't put enamel paint directly on the parts. Otherwise, this kit should be a lot of fun to build and paint, and even the most diehard of styrene addicts should be able to handle it with no problems.

Dr. Brad - The Martian stands approx. 5-1/8" tall.


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## Dr. Brad (Oct 5, 1999)

Thanks!


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## Cajjunwolfman (Nov 15, 2004)

Thanks for posting the images. I'll have to figure out how to get one. The kit being vinyl does not represent a problem for me. I believe a vinyl kit does not require a very expensive tool to be manufactured. My conjecture is thats the reason this is being produced in vinyl.


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## deadmanincfan (Mar 11, 2008)

I haven't built a vinyl kit in years...methinks it's time again... :thumbsup:


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## razorwyre1 (Jan 28, 2004)

tr7nut said:


> So is this sort of a bust or does the little guy just not have any legs in this interpretation?


the original alien "suit" used in the movie had no legs, and the "foot" more or less terminated like this kit does. seems to be something like a snail in method of locomotion (based on these pics anyway)

sungod, im sure they looked at the sales of the spaceship and made a reasonable guess on the sales for the figure, then determined the material. vinyl is a LOT cheaper to produce than styrene. (i think we are really in "gift horse" territory here...)


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## bigdaddydaveh (Jul 20, 2007)

Does anyone have photos or drawings of what the legs were supposed to look like? I've seen three legged and two legged versions in the past.


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## Moonman27 (Aug 26, 2008)

Hey razorwyre, Thanks for the cool pics! I have never seen those before. I will have to get one of these. Looks pretty accurate,now that I have seen these pics of the actual prop. When is the WWC ship due out? Gotta get one of those too. Go team Pegasus!


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## hedorah59 (Nov 24, 2008)

I really have to get one of these - Thanks for the pics, guys! :thumbsup:


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## ChrisW (Jan 1, 1970)

Ditto on the great photos razorwyre.


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## BronzeGiant (Jun 8, 2007)

If you can't put enamel paint directly on the vinyl. what do you prime it with? I've been looking forward to this kit since I saw it announced and want to get one but I want to be able to paint it.....


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## tr7nut (Apr 18, 1999)

*Resin Martian*

I've got an unknown make resin Martian with a base, and this version has three legs. I never thought of it this way myself. The scene where he tries to get frisky with the woman and then runs away would make you think he could move more quickly than your average snail.


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## robiwon (Oct 20, 2006)

Everything about the martians was to be based on 3's. They have 3 fingers, three segments to their eyes, the original war machine had three legs, the Pal war machine had three invisible legs, and the martian itself was to have three legs but they were never built for the puppet. The martian was finished the night before shooting and was actually falling apart as it was being filmed. There is a great interview on the DVD with the wife of the guy who created it. His name however escapes me right now.

As far as painting a vinyl kit, you can use acrylics.


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## the Dabbler (Feb 17, 2005)

BronzeGiant said:


> If you can't put enamel paint directly on the vinyl. what do you prime it with? I've been looking forward to this kit since I saw it announced and want to get one but I want to be able to paint it.....


Or you can prime it with primer. It's a matter of choice but I like Duplicolor myself. Never put enamel stright on vinyl, it'll never dry and be BIG problem.


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## beck (Oct 22, 2003)

just picked mine up at the PO . :thumbsup:
great pics Razor ! never saw those before . looks like the guys used those pics for the sculpt reference . 

edit : quick review . this vinyl is a different caliber than vinyl i've done in the past . very thick and resilient so no worries about any parts warpage here .looks like little to no trimming will be needed ( something ya always had to do with the old vinyl kits ) . comes with some nifty goodies for the base , a couple of books and the chopped off mechanical eye . overall
detail is very good .
hb


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

BronzeGiant said:


> If you can't put enamel paint directly on the vinyl. what do you prime it with? I've been looking forward to this kit since I saw it announced and want to get one but I want to be able to paint it.....


Either prime it with something like Tamiya spray primer, or paint it with acrylics. No big deal, really.

Quite a few kits have vinyl or vinyl like parts these days. Dragon uses it for some of the superstructure pieces in their 1/700 battleships because of the undercutting you can get. They use it also on some figures and 1/35 accessories. Some Fujimi cars come with the interior parts done in vinyl (not sure why but they do). The new Airfix Tardis in 1/12 has vinyl figures


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## SpaceCrawler (Mar 22, 2010)

razorwyre1 said:


> the original alien "suit" used in the movie had no legs, and the "foot" more or less terminated like this kit does. seems to be something like a snail in method of locomotion (based on these pics anyway)
> 
> sungod, im sure they looked at the sales of the spaceship and made a reasonable guess on the sales for the figure, then determined the material. vinyl is a LOT cheaper to produce than styrene. (i think we are really in "gift horse" territory here...)


I posted this from Wikipedia to the older WOW alien thread, might be some use here...

1953 film
Main article: The War of the Worlds (1953 film)

Some take a more creative liberty with the look of the Martians. In the 1953 film adaptation, the Martians look virtually nothing like their novel counterparts. They are short, brown creatures with three-fingered hands at the end of their long arms. They have a cyclopean eye that is divided into three different colors, although this may be for protection against Earth sunlight, which is twice as great as their planet. *The bottom of the creature is never shown, but blueprints from the film detail the creatures, and show them to have three legs with a single suction cup-like toe, similar to their fingers. Other production art shows a more likely configuration, with just two legs.* As the sole Martian shown in the film was depicted by a human in a costume, two legs would seem to be accurate. No description of the alien's internal structure is given. However, they are revealed to have blood, and their anemic blood cells are viewed by scientists under a microscope. And just as in other versions of the story, the Martians' biology leads them to succumb to Earth germs and bacteria. The aliens appear to have no use for human beings, except to annihilate.​
Sean


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## northjason (May 10, 2003)

I'm not especially keen on the subject of the kit, but am halfway tempted to pick it up to see the new state of the art for vinyl. I'm intrigued by the possibilities.

Can anyone say where it was manufactured?


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## Cajjunwolfman (Nov 15, 2004)

Thanks for all the info on the kit, I'm going to try my LHS tomorrow. Do the instructions recommend a certain glue?


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

razorwyre1 said:


> the original alien "suit" used in the movie had no legs, and the "foot" more or less terminated like this kit does. seems to be something like a snail in method of locomotion (based on these pics anyway)
> 
> sungod, im sure they looked at the sales of the spaceship and made a reasonable guess on the sales for the figure, then determined the material. vinyl is a LOT cheaper to produce than styrene. (i think we are really in "gift horse" territory here...)




I know but if every manufacturer just thought of making things in vinyl as it's cheaper then we wouldn't have styrene kits.


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

derric1968 said:


> I find this remark to be rather curious considering that vinyl kits are pretty much nonexistent these days. In fact, I can't remember the last time a kit company released a vinyl kit.
> 
> Regardless, you shouldn't think of the Martian kit as being a traditional vinyl kit. It's engineered in a very different way, with a different type of vinyl. Check out these shots of my kit:
> 
> ...



I suppose there hasn't been so many vinyl kits released recently but vinyl's being used on many other things like loads of toys (those Japanese trading kits) whereas before they would have used hard plastic a lot more. I'm not saying the Martian looks terrible but it's not just what it looks like finished or how it builds up to me, it's the whole package and to me there's nothing like having a proper plastic kit. 

Opening the box and seeing all the parts on the sprues, the feel of the parts etc. Some manufacturers can't seem to see this. 

And I still don't trust vinyl not to rot over the years either whereas a plastic kit will last for thousands of years.


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## derric1968 (Jun 13, 2003)

BronzeGiant said:


> If you can't put enamel paint directly on the vinyl. what do you prime it with? I've been looking forward to this kit since I saw it announced and want to get one but I want to be able to paint it.....


I also use Duplicolor primer. It works great and can be found at most auto parts stores. I have never used Tamiya primer personally, but I hear it is very good. Actually, I want to say that most primer is lacquer based, but I can't say for sure. Anybody else want to chime in here?



Cajjunwolfman said:


> Thanks for all the info on the kit, I'm going to try my LHS tomorrow. Do the instructions recommend a certain glue?


The instructions say, "Cyanoacrylate adhesive or two part Epoxy."


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## razorwyre1 (Jan 28, 2004)

SUNGOD said:


> I know but if every manufacturer just thought of making things in vinyl as it's cheaper then we wouldn't have styrene kits.


well obviously they dont think that way. what i was getting at is that for some characters, the potential numbers might be so low that vinyl is the only viable option to make the piece and put it out at a reasonable retail price.


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## beck (Oct 22, 2003)

i think for some parts and subjects vinyl is good but i don't think we'll ever see any car bodies or tank gun barrels made of it . 
hb


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## BronzeGiant (Jun 8, 2007)

Went to two LHSs today and neither one had this yet.  They both had them on ORDER but so far bupkis.


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

beck said:


> i think for some parts and subjects vinyl is good but i don't think we'll ever see any car bodies or tank gun barrels made of it .
> hb


Well basically the reason you see vinyl used for figures is that you can do a lot of undercutting, complex shaped, etc without seams across the outside of the parts. If you were to do the WotW martian in plastic, everything would be cut into little parts. The arms would be at least two halves each, possibly with seperate suckers to glue on the fingers. The body would be in halves or thirds, etc. This means less detail, more seams. 

Some of the newer vinyl is quite nice to work with. Dragon uses it to mold the superstructures of some of their warship kits. They can do all the little windows, overhangs, doors, etc without having seams, multi part moldings etc. There would be absolutely no reason to do a tank gun barrel in vinyl (good kits now have turned metal ones).


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

razorwyre1 said:


> well obviously they dont think that way. what i was getting at is that for some characters, the potential numbers might be so low that vinyl is the only viable option to make the piece and put it out at a reasonable retail price.




That might be the case I don't know but I can only give my opinion. I get the impression though that some manufacturers most probably could make a success of producing a particular subject in plastic but think many modellers won't care what it's made of as long as the finished product looks ok, when that isn't always the case.


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

djnick66 said:


> Well basically the reason you see vinyl used for figures is that you can do a lot of undercutting, complex shaped, etc without seams across the outside of the parts. If you were to do the WotW martian in plastic, everything would be cut into little parts. The arms would be at least two halves each, possibly with seperate suckers to glue on the fingers. The body would be in halves or thirds, etc. This means less detail, more seams.
> 
> Some of the newer vinyl is quite nice to work with. Dragon uses it to mold the superstructures of some of their warship kits. They can do all the little windows, overhangs, doors, etc without having seams, multi part moldings etc. There would be absolutely no reason to do a tank gun barrel in vinyl (good kits now have turned metal ones).



Believe me I can see why manufacturers use vinyl but I hope they realise that *some people like to build plastic kits and don't think vinyl is a substitute for them. * 

And I wouldn't have a problem with a few small thin seams, having the arms in 2 parts or separate suckers (the Moebius Invisible Man looks waaaay more complicated than that Martian. Modern plastic moulding technology can produce plastic kits just as good as anything vinyl (and easy to build) and that Martian looks to me like it could easily have been done in plastic. Styrene is also soooooo much easier to glue and paint.

As for the vinyl on Dragon ships I've seen quite a few modellers complain about those. I've got an issue of FSM somewhere where the reviewer says he wished they'd do them in plastic instead.


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## Todd P. (Apr 12, 2007)

I've said "to each his own" a lot lately and I'll repeat it here. Got a problem with vinyl kits? That's fine, I have no problem with your problem. I happen to love them and have never had any problems with any falling apart. In fact, my vinyl kits have held up better than my plastic ones in almost a decade of modeling.

So, why would Pegasus go with vinyl for this figure? I'll bet cost is at least part of the reason. Vinyl kits are substantially more expensive to produce than resin, but they're also substantially cheaper to produce than styrene. I don't know what the averages would be, but I'll take a stab at saying the production run of a vinyl kit is at most a quarter what you'd pay to do styrene. You'd also probably make no more than half the number of kits, and maybe less than 10 percent as many.

Pegasus has produced some neat spaceships in styrene. That makes sense; model spaceships generally sell a lot more than monsters. Is there really much chance anyone would be able to sell 3,000 of these Martians in plastic?


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

Vinyl is just another medium. I don't see why anyone of even moderate modeling experience would have a problem with it. If you've never done a vinyl kit before, this may be a good chance to stretch your modeling skills and develop an appreciation for something other than just styrene.


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## Cajjunwolfman (Nov 15, 2004)

I got one today. I think its a great kit, low parts count, little to no seams, pretty good detail, they way it builds up hides most of the construction.


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## razorwyre1 (Jan 28, 2004)

Todd P. said:


> I've said "to each his own" a lot lately and I'll repeat it here. Got a problem with vinyl kits? That's fine, I have no problem with your problem. I happen to love them and have never had any problems with any falling apart. In fact, my vinyl kits have held up better than my plastic ones in almost a decade of modeling.
> 
> So, why would Pegasus go with vinyl for this figure? I'll bet cost is at least part of the reason. Vinyl kits are substantially more expensive to produce than resin, but they're also substantially cheaper to produce than styrene. I don't know what the averages would be, but I'll take a stab at saying the production run of a vinyl kit is at most a quarter what you'd pay to do styrene. You'd also probably make no more than half the number of kits, and maybe less than 10 percent as many.
> 
> Pegasus has produced some neat spaceships in styrene. That makes sense; model spaceships generally sell a lot more than monsters. Is there really much chance anyone would be able to sell 3,000 of these Martians in plastic?


i agree 100%, but want to point out a couple of things: 

vinyl is actually much less expensive than resin, but requires a huge initial outlay of $. the silicone molds to do something the size of this kit in resin would cost a couple hundred dollars. the metal molds for vinyl cost a couple thousand bucks. (im basing the info about the resin on my own experience making silicone molds and resin parts, and about the vinyl on what a client of mine has paid for their molds in the recent past.) however, the silicone molds only last about 50 to 100 castings, and would have to be re-made several times during the kits production run. as a result the silicone molds might end up costing more then the metal ones, but that cost is expended in smaller chunks over a longer period of time. after that, the actual vinyl compound is much cheaper than regular resin. (the way the martian is done makes him something of a special case, but im pretty sure the actual castings would still be much cheaper than resin.) thats why, even it the number of units sold were the same, you could add about a benjamin (or at least a drunk.. er,um grant) to the cost of this kit if it were resin. also y'know how molds for styrene have to be tweaked and perfected between the initial test shot and the production run? that doesnt need to happen with vinyl. so vinyl is a lot less hassle than styrene too.

todd, regarding the numbers vs. styrene, i think the difference is actually greater than 1/10, probably closer to 1/20, maybe as much as 1/100, just given what i understand about the astronomical cost of molds for styrene. 

sungod, i agree with you there there are some things that are better in styrene. id hate a robot, armor, or vehicle model in vinyl. (i own some of each and the styrene is clearly superior. this is why i am aching for the george pal time machine IN STYRENE: it is the proper medium for the subject matter). faces and figures are another matter. there are a lot of compromises in the sculpt that have to be done for styrene. faces lose a lot of detail and small undercuts just because they were cast in styrene. consider the wrinkles on the sides of the human face, or the scale pattern along the sides of the legs of the creature from the black lagoon. all that has to be fudged or lost in styrene, not so in vinyl. 

whats really great is when you get a compromise solution. in the airfix tardis kit, everythings styrene except for the heads and the hands of the figures, and the dalek kit is totally styrene, except for the exposed dalek creature. conversely the martains eye, camera lens, and base are styrene. i find these "mixed media" kits to be brilliant solutions, and hope to see more. (how cool would it be if the new broadway dracula was all styrene, except for vinyl head and hands? it would allow the face to be far more realistic and detailed.)

anyway, to each their own. as i said i really think we are deep into "gift horse" territory, and should be grateful that there is a licensed official kit of this character being sold at a reasonable price at all.


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## Cajjunwolfman (Nov 15, 2004)

Fellow Modelers:

This question is directed to those with experience in building these type of vinyl kits. Whats the best primer? I have some Tamiya plastic/metal primer or could obtain some Duplicolor. Is it worth the effort to find and purchase a special vinyl primer?


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## derric1968 (Jun 13, 2003)

As I said above, my personal choice is Duplicolor. It works great on just about any type of material, including vinyl. Also, I hear a lot of praise for Tamiya primer in general, and it should work just fine for vinyl.

In other words, no, you don't need to go to any trouble to find a "special" primer.

If you're going to putty in the seams, go ahead and use whatever method and product you would normally use. Squadron, Bondo Spot Putty, Aves, Magic Sculpt. They all work just fine on vinyl.

When I paint a vinyl kit, I use water-based paint, usually artist acrylics and craft acrylics. However, any brand of acrylic will work, including Pactra, Floquil and Testors (I know some people around here have serious Testors addiction and need to seek counseling ). It is generally considered safe to use enamel over the primer, but enamel will never cure properly on bare vinyl. So, if you are going to use enamel, primer is not an option, it's required. Also, when using enamel, make sure the primer completely covers the kit and keep your coats as light and thin as possible. Lacquer paint is also an option, but never apply lacquer over enamel. If you would rather play it safe, just stick to the water-based paints.

Once it's painted, finish with whatever clear top coat you prefer. I use Testors Dullcote.

I hope this helps. Ultimately, working with vinyl is a little different than working with styrene, but you shouldn't let that stop you from enjoying a great kit. Think of it as an opportunity to learn something new. You can never have too many weapons in the arsenal!


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## Tony Hardy (Oct 23, 2002)

Thanks for sharing the behind-the-scenes photographs! The gentleman that created the Martian was Charles Gemora (everybody called him Charlie). He was an incredibly talented individual. During the silent film era he was also in charge of building the large "Phantom" soundstage for Lon Chaney's "Phantom Of The Opera" which still stands to this day on the Universal Studios backlot with the original Opera House set inside of it. Charlie also created a number of ape and gorilla costumes during his career and acted in those suits as well.


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## Todd P. (Apr 12, 2007)

razorwyre1 said:


> todd, regarding the numbers vs. styrene, i think the difference is actually greater than 1/10, probably closer to 1/20, maybe as much as 1/100, just given what i understand about the astronomical cost of molds for styrene.


It's all guesswork on my part, but I'm thinking Moebius is probably manufacturing between 5,000 and 10,000 of its figure kits. I believe I read that it was less for Big Frankie. Meanwhile, at their very peak, I believe George Stephenson of GEOmetric once said he sold about 3,000 each of the Star Trek kits. That's much more than he sold for other vinyl kits, though.

Monarch has, to date, made about 4,000 Nosferatu kits. More will come eventually when the square-box glow version moves to the front burner, but for now the long-box glow kits are still available from retailers. I'd guess about 2,500 of those sold in a big hurry, the rest have taken a while.

Again, guesswork, but I'll bet 10,000 is about the most you could sell of a styrene figure kit these days, and that one would be a huge success. I'm open to correction on that number, but if anything, I'll bet I'm on the high end.

Meanwhile, I'll bet the market for vinyl models would absolutely peak at 1,000. If I were producing them, I'd do a first run of only a few hundred.


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## Todd P. (Apr 12, 2007)

Cajjunwolfman said:


> Fellow Modelers:
> 
> This question is directed to those with experience in building these type of vinyl kits. Whats the best primer? I have some Tamiya plastic/metal primer or could obtain some Duplicolor. Is it worth the effort to find and purchase a special vinyl primer?



I've found most sandable primers work fine, whatever brands are available at the hardware store where I look for it. Perhaps I'm not picky enough.


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## derric1968 (Jun 13, 2003)

Todd P. said:


> Perhaps I'm not picky enough.


If it works, it works. And if it's cheap, all the better!

Most primer seems to be lacquer based, so even a can of the cheap stuff at Walmart should do the trick. The biggest message I'm trying to convey is DO NOT put enamel paint directly on the vinyl. It's bad voodoo! I feel compelled to repeat myself because I know how many modelers out there use enamel as their "go to" paint of choice.

Yeah, I'm know. It sounds crazy. Painting a model kit without using enamel paint. Has the world gone mad?!? :tongue:


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## spindrift (Apr 16, 2005)

:thumbsup:Buy this Martian kit- support Pegasus- i am amazed such a small company can produce such _high quality _kits- they are very very nice in every way!


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

Todd P. said:


> I've said "to each his own" a lot lately and I'll repeat it here. Got a problem with vinyl kits? That's fine, I have no problem with your problem. I happen to love them and have never had any problems with any falling apart. In fact, my vinyl kits have held up better than my plastic ones in almost a decade of modeling.
> 
> So, why would Pegasus go with vinyl for this figure? I'll bet cost is at least part of the reason. Vinyl kits are substantially more expensive to produce than resin, but they're also substantially cheaper to produce than styrene. I don't know what the averages would be, but I'll take a stab at saying the production run of a vinyl kit is at most a quarter what you'd pay to do styrene. You'd also probably make no more than half the number of kits, and maybe less than 10 percent as many.
> 
> Pegasus has produced some neat spaceships in styrene. That makes sense; model spaceships generally sell a lot more than monsters. Is there really much chance anyone would be able to sell 3,000 of these Martians in plastic?




Who knows until it's tried. I don't know what's happening to your plastic kits but unless they're made of some weird plastic I'm pretty sure they wouldn't rot like some vinyl does. As I said, plastic will last forever but I bet most vinyl won't. I'm not saying these new Martians will degrade but I've got a few old vinyl type figures and they're slowly rotting away.


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

razorwyre1 said:


> i agree 100%, but want to point out a couple of things:
> 
> vinyl is actually much less expensive than resin, but requires a huge initial outlay of $. the silicone molds to do something the size of this kit in resin would cost a couple hundred dollars. the metal molds for vinyl cost a couple thousand bucks. (im basing the info about the resin on my own experience making silicone molds and resin parts, and about the vinyl on what a client of mine has paid for their molds in the recent past.) however, the silicone molds only last about 50 to 100 castings, and would have to be re-made several times during the kits production run. as a result the silicone molds might end up costing more then the metal ones, but that cost is expended in smaller chunks over a longer period of time. after that, the actual vinyl compound is much cheaper than regular resin. (the way the martian is done makes him something of a special case, but im pretty sure the actual castings would still be much cheaper than resin.) thats why, even it the number of units sold were the same, you could add about a benjamin (or at least a drunk.. er,um grant) to the cost of this kit if it were resin. also y'know how molds for styrene have to be tweaked and perfected between the initial test shot and the production run? that doesnt need to happen with vinyl. so vinyl is a lot less hassle than styrene too.
> 
> ...




Agree about robots, armor and vehicles. The thought of a tiger tank or a Corvette made of vinyl makes me feel ill.


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## JimPV (Apr 26, 2009)

SUNGOD said:


> I've got a few old vinyl type figures and they're slowly rotting away.


"Rotting away"...?! How long have you had these kits, anyway? The majority of my kit collection are figure kits, and the majority of _those_ are vinyl, and not one of them is "rotting away". I've got some of the earliest Billiken kits and no "rotting" in sight. In fact, I'm kinda having trouble understanding what you mean about vinyl rotting.


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

If you guys think they are going to make a tank or car out of vinyl you have no clue about model kit design and why certain materials are or are not used.

I have had vinyl kits (and toys) for decades and never had one rot away. Even the ones stored in my hot Florida shed where its 100 F plus sometimes. If you think styrene is immortal, it is not. I have some kits where the plastic has become brittle, cracked, etc. On the other hand, some of those kits were made nearly 60 years ago. So thats a pretty good life span.


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## derric1968 (Jun 13, 2003)

I also have not experienced any "rot" with my vinyl kits.

The only time I've ever heard of a vinyl kit "rotting" is because plaster was used to fill it, but the plaster never fully dried before the kit was assembled. The trapped moisture became moldy and eventually started seeping through the seams, thus ruining the paint job. This has never happened to me.

Otherwise, my vinyl kits, both assembled and stored, are doing just fine.

A note to you vinyl newbies: The Martian kit does not need to be filled with anything. Please disregard my plaster comment above.


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## Todd P. (Apr 12, 2007)

Once again, I'm a big fan of vinyl kits, but I'd never even consider producing a vehicle in vinyl. It works great for figures, where a little flexibility while building doesn't hurt anything and can even be a benefit. But you need to have a strictly rigid material for cars, planes, spaceships, etc. I'd hesitate to produce a robot in vinyl, but I think it would work OK.

I'd think twice about making a vinyl kit's base in vinyl. It can work fine, but I think resin is generally a better idea.


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## razorwyre1 (Jan 28, 2004)

SUNGOD said:


> Who knows until it's tried. I don't know what's happening to your plastic kits but unless they're made of some weird plastic I'm pretty sure they wouldn't rot like some vinyl does. As I said, plastic will last forever but I bet most vinyl won't. I'm not saying these new Martians will degrade but I've got a few old vinyl type figures and they're slowly rotting away.


i have seen some exceptionally cheap and very old "vinyl" toys rot, but i thik that has to do with the fillers, etc, used to stretch the actual pvc compound. i have never seen a kit (other than some cheap recasts) that were made of that sort of fillered vinyl.

i have some billikens and tsukudas that are over 25 years old, and an old creature from the black lagoon action figure that is over 40 years old. the vinyl is still in fine shape. 

cutting to the chase, todays modern materials are less likely to rot over time to the stuff used 30+ years ago. 

sungod, you say "they wont know until they try". iirc, the guys that run pegasus also run a retail hobby store, and have for a very long time. its not like they havnt seen styrene and vinyl figure kits before. they KNOW that some people dont like vinyl, and they also know, better than either you or i, the relative numbers of sales between figures and vehicles, and styrene and vinyl kits in general. they almost undoubtedly took all this into consideration when deciding if and how to do this kit. 

lets take stock here: how many NEW domestic mass market styrene figure kits have there been in the past couple of years? spiderman, green goblin, iron man, nosferatu, doctor who (mostly), the daleks (mostly), the mummy, frankenstein, and probably a couple others i have forgotten. how many vinyl? i can think of 1, this martian. a lot of us LIKE vinyl, some even (gasp!) prefer it to styrene! why begrudge us our one kit? 

we get it: you dont like it. fine, dont buy it, but, simply judging from the responses here, trying to convince the rest of us that producing the kit in vinyl was a mistake seems to be a lost cause .


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## RogueJ (Oct 29, 2000)

Vinyl, styrene, resin? Built all three. Could care less. My concern is the kit good, a subject matter I'm interested in, does the sculpt look like the subject in question and can I afford it? That's all I care about. IF I lean any direction would be vinyl. A lot depends no the subjects. Figures: vinyl and resin, better for details and undercuts. Look at lost details in the ears of some figures in styrene. Or lost scale details along PL's Godzilla seams and not just that kit. Styrene IMHO is best saved for vehicles be they starships, robots, military vehicles, etc.

Looking forward in supporting all the great kits we are fortunate to have available to us these days. Plus, those yet to come. (Time Machine... hint, hint)

Rogue


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## derric1968 (Jun 13, 2003)

razorwyre1 said:


> the guys that run pegasus also run megahobby.


A bit of correction here: the guys that run Pegasus Hobbies also run the Pegasus Hobbies retail and web stores based out of Montclair, CA. Atlantis Models is the company that is run by the Megahobby guys.

But I see your point and agree with it 100%.


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## razorwyre1 (Jan 28, 2004)

derric1968 said:


> A bit of correction here: the guys that run Pegasus Hobbies also run the Pegasus Hobbies retail and web stores based out of Montclair, CA. Atlantis Models is the company that is run by the Megahobby guys.
> 
> But I see your point and agree with it 100%.


thanks for the correction!


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## wolfman66 (Feb 18, 2006)

Best primer to use on the little guy is krylon and to be honest Pegasus nailed the martian to a tee!Heres a clip of mine that is currently in the works.


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## Todd P. (Apr 12, 2007)

Looks cool. Is the sculptor credited?

I love vinyl kits.


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## wolfman66 (Feb 18, 2006)

Todd P. said:


> Looks cool. Is the sculptor credited?
> 
> I love vinyl kits.


Only thing it says on the side of the box is kit design scott willis


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## derric1968 (Jun 13, 2003)

That build-up is lookin' good, wolfman!


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## wolfman66 (Feb 18, 2006)

derric1968 said:


> That build-up is lookin' good, wolfman!


Thanks:thumbsup:


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## razorwyre1 (Jan 28, 2004)

very nice wolfman. 

im attempting something very special for its eye. my first idea, cutting and shaping acrylic cabochons, didnt work out so hot, so now i am remaking the entire eye by casting the original part in solid lear resin with a reflective backing. i keep edging towards perfection with it, and will post photos once i have the actual part ready to go.


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## deadmanincfan (Mar 11, 2008)

I snagged one at my LHS today :thumbsup: ...and as much as I've been enjoying getting back to my styrene roots, it feels good to have vinyl back in my hands again (hmm...may need to rephrase that :tongue: )! This is a beautiful kit, and I can recommend it as a great vinyl starter kit...and NO, I'm not going to say what the two books on the base are either!


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## llricmc (Jul 14, 2010)

razorwyre1 said:


> the original alien "suit" used in the movie had no legs, and the "foot" more or less terminated like this kit does. seems to be something like a snail in method of locomotion (based on these pics anyway)


The kit matches the pics to a tee. There's a whole lot of surface texture and little details going on so it should prove to be an excellent painter's kit.
I love it!


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## Roy Kirchoff (Jan 1, 1970)

Welcome to the board llricmc. :thumbsup:

~RK~


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## razorwyre1 (Jan 28, 2004)

indeed welcome llricmc! you'll like it here!

and i want to second what you said about the texture and detail. for thos who havent bought the kit, the surface isnt just "textured" , but detailed out with bunches of tiny veins atop the texture, making it both an drybrushers and airbrushers dream! 

i didnt care for the new movie version of wotw that much, but if this kit is any indication, i cant wait to see pegasus's upcoming kit of the martians from that film. (actually if this kit is any indication, i cant wait to see ANY new figure kit pegasus puts out!)


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## starduster (Feb 12, 2006)

Evil bay has a WOTW martian item # 160456134367 and this one has
legs and what looks like a mouth ....... interesting to say the least. Karl


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## rkoenn (Dec 18, 2007)

I will have to pick up a DVD of the movie and watch it. I have seen it once or twice but it has been ages. I didn't realize the creatures were in it much at all. That does help to see that sculpt but I wonder if the lower parts were just the sculptors conception. Did the movie actually show the full bodied Martian? Here is a pic that shows a Martian from the movie which looks almost identical to the Pegasus release.


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## Cajjunwolfman (Nov 15, 2004)

I watched the movie last weekend and did still motion on the Martian. What you see there is pretty much what is in the movie. 
In the movie there is one quick scene where you can see the Martian outside the farmhouse. Then a longer scene in the house where it touches the girl and covers its eyes. The color looks much brighter in outside the house but appears much darker inside. Sort of a dark almost brown orange to me when you see it inside the house, it appears much brighter orange in the scene outside. 
I'd be interested in what other members thought of the color.


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## SJF (Dec 3, 1999)

Just got mine the other day from Mega, and boy is this a great little kit! The parts fit so well you hardly need glue. The original WOW is one of my favorite movies, so I'm having a blast working on this. 

Sean


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

I forget if any more of the martians were shown in the WotW TV series. They used the same war machines...


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## razorwyre1 (Jan 28, 2004)

djnick66 said:


> I forget if any more of the martians were shown in the WotW TV series. They used the same war machines...


yes. it was a very similar, but not identical, design. i'll try to do some frame grabs later if i get the time.

meanwhile i have had success with my new eye for it (so far) i got a very good solid clear casting, however i decided to go one better than that. i've cast 3 clear eyes, in transparent colors. i am going to cut them into thirds, place them back into the mold, then fuse them together with more clear resin. the whole thing will then be backed with mylar. so far its looking good!


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## Tonyray (Jul 31, 2009)

Here is a picture of my martian so far. My epoxy was all dried up so I just used hot glue and it works good.









Working on the eye now and the base. Did any one look and the titles of the 2 books for the base one is The war of the worlds and the other one is To Serve Man (remember the cook book from the twilight zone)


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## Tonyray (Jul 31, 2009)

Here is some more pictures


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## Roy Kirchoff (Jan 1, 1970)

Nice work Tonyray. Lighting effects look great! :thumbsup:

~RK~


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## ChrisW (Jan 1, 1970)

Just got the ugly li'l bugger for my birthday, and I love him. i would have liked to have seen a more detalied base, (you listening, Rick?) but I'm sure we'll see ALL kinds of custom bases at Wonderfest next year. As others have said, the minute detail on the skin surface was best realized with the vinyl. The base is ABS plastic, not styrene, so standard model glue wouldn't be effective - but since there is no abs-to-abs gluing required, it's a moot point.
Really looking forward to building this one.


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## razorwyre1 (Jan 28, 2004)

well todays the day that i fuse the eye..... photos tomorrow if it works!
wish me luck gang!


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## rkoenn (Dec 18, 2007)

I got mine yesterday along with Wonderwoman, Superboy, and a 1/2500 Enterprise (which was in a very small and odd shaped box). I haven't opened any of them yet but am thinking I might like to take on the Martian after I get a couple of projects currently on the bench done. The builds I have seen on here so far all look great. And I am going to watch the movie this weekend. I saw it once when many, many years ago and need to get into the mood to build the kit. Somehow though I always enjoy watching my geeky shows when it gets dark much earlier and when the weather is cooler (for the little bit it gets cooler in FL these days) than now in the summer. But I will make do in this stifling heat and have some fun anyway.


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## Tonyray (Jul 31, 2009)

razorwyre1 said:


> well todays the day that i fuse the eye..... photos tomorrow if it works!
> wish me luck gang!


I would like to see that and maybe buy one from you if you can make more I put led light in mine and you can see the brush strokes. It looks OK but really shows up in a picture. I used a wooden candle holder which I turned over for a base so I had room for the battery and switch.


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## razorwyre1 (Jan 28, 2004)

ok heres the progress so far: 
loads of sanding and polishing to do. 
i cast a purely clear one as a test, and it came out so smooth and clear you can use it as a magnifying lens(!), and i want this one to be just as clear and perfect.
tonyray, i'll gladly tell you how to make one, but theres just too much work in this little sucker for me to want to do another.


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## razorwyre1 (Jan 28, 2004)

djnick66 said:


> I forget if any more of the martians were shown in the WotW TV series. They used the same war machines...


thanks to powerdvd's capture function, i managed to get some stills of the tv version of the martians. i had to play with them in photoshop to bring out the detail, because they were backlit. 
they never gave you a very good look at them, but if you could see this full bodied, the basic upper body shape and shoulders are similar to the 53 version, but adapted so they could go fully ambulatory as a man in a suit (bipedal)
anyway here tis. note the crab-like mouth parts


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