# Should Toybiz model kits be repopped?



## Matthew Green (Nov 12, 2000)

I know we can still find some of them but others not so much...I mean they came out before PL repopped the monsters and revell is already doing the big 5 so why not?


----------



## Mitchellmania (Feb 14, 2002)

I like the Toybiz models, the question is where are the molds?


----------



## otto (Jan 1, 1970)

A few of those kits were pretty nice, some were pretty bad. IE poor proportions, soft detail, horrible parts fit .ect.


----------



## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

I still haven't built the ones I have!


----------



## getter weevil (May 20, 2010)

I think you have to understand what type of company Toybiz is or was at the time those kits were made.

Toybiz was and is an action figure manufacturing company which at some point was independent and later Marvel comics might have acquired or gained some control over them. I would not think the molds for these kits would have been sold to other mold companies. I would not be surprised if the molds for these kits were melted down (Just a guess due to how poorly this line of kits did).

All the kits had soft details, prominent seams, and deformed proportions. these kits were not made with any particular care to encourage anyone to build models. These kits were made simply to make a buck and it failed for toybiz and they ditched the line. I think toward the end of the line they were issuing the kits with bases from different figures but it just showed how cheap they were.

A new line of Marvel kits would be better and easier to deal with.


----------



## Mitchellmania (Feb 14, 2002)

I liked most of them- Capt America, Spider Man (first version), Hulk, Thing.
Venom, Wolverine and Storm - Thore's figure was good, but the base I didn't like.


----------



## MonsterModelMan (Dec 20, 2000)

Here is a couple of links for those who might not be familiar with these kits...

http://www.samstoybox.com/toys/MarvelModels.html

http://home.comcast.net/~cinorjer/toybiz.htm

Some really nice build-ups and reviews!

MMM


----------



## Matthew Green (Nov 12, 2000)

I disagree with the reviews. Mine worked just fine. I am not one of these obsessive modelers that puts putty in seams. I feel that is not really building the kit and is cheating but to each their own. I thought the kits were great!


----------



## MEGA1 (Jul 18, 2000)

*toy Biz*

Sorry to say the molds were destroyed about 3 years ago. This is fact.

Pete


----------



## MadCap Romanian (Oct 29, 2005)

Too bad. I would have loved to get the Ghost Rider.


----------



## MonsterModelMan (Dec 20, 2000)

Matthew Green said:


> ...I am not one of these obsessive modelers that puts putty in seams. I feel that is not really building the kit and is cheating ...


Please explain how that is cheating or what do you mean by cheating? A model is a representation of a subject whether it is a car or plane or figure or whatever of some type. The fact that it comes in pieces and you have to build and paint it is all part of it. 

If you choose to not remove seams and to build it OOB is perfectly fine...your choice as to how you choose to do the kit.

To take it to a different level and remove blemishes, sink holes from ejecter pins or releases to make it look better to your own likings...help me understand how that is cheating? Who are you cheating?

I think to try and make the kit looks its best is a compliment to the subject matter and the producer...not cheating but making it more pleasing to the eye. If removing the seams accomplishes this then so be it. If not, then so be it. That is what makes kit building both a hobby and an artform.


MMM


----------



## DocJam00 (May 18, 2010)

Actually, the original models were FAR better than the molds, if the one I've seen of Thor on the internet is any indication.


----------



## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

Shame the moulds have gone (where did you hear that MEGA?). They were ok but there was complaints about some parts that hadn't formed properly, as if they'd been taken out of the moulds too soon. The Hulk was an ok sculpt but he was too skinny.


----------



## MEGA1 (Jul 18, 2000)

I called them last year. I wanted to run the silver surfer they told me all the tools were destroyed. They made way to many kits. So many were sold to liquidators across the country. I was buying the kits for 1.00 at one point. Some distributors could not give them away they were a few good sellers but most were losers for them.


----------



## MadCap Romanian (Oct 29, 2005)

Really odd because for a while they were the only super hero kits out there.


----------



## Rattrap (Feb 23, 1999)

The bigger kits (Thor, Captain America, Ghost Rider) were pretty good, in my opinion. As someone else pointed out, the sculpt on the Thor was especially nice, and he went together very well.

The smaller kits varied wildly. The Hulk was nice, but the Wolverine stank. The Storm was both a nice kit, and a good start for kitbashing.

Glad I've got a Cap and Ghost Rider stashed away.


----------



## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

MEGA1 said:


> I called them last year. I wanted to run the silver surfer they told me all the tools were destroyed. They made way to many kits. So many were sold to liquidators across the country. I was buying the kits for 1.00 at one point. Some distributors could not give them away they were a few good sellers but most were losers for them.




They must have been mad doing that. It makes you wonder if they somehow improved the fit and brought them back they'd sell ok now.


----------



## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

Rattrap said:


> The bigger kits (Thor, Captain America, Ghost Rider) were pretty good, in my opinion. As someone else pointed out, the sculpt on the Thor was especially nice, and he went together very well.
> 
> The smaller kits varied wildly. The Hulk was nice, but the Wolverine stank. The Storm was both a nice kit, and a good start for kitbashing.
> 
> Glad I've got a Cap and Ghost Rider stashed away.




I never got the bigger ones but they did look nice. As for Wolverine and Hulk I thought Wolverine looked good but the Hulk to me isn't a very good sculpt.


----------



## TAY666 (Jan 8, 2000)

MEGA1 said:


> I called them last year. I wanted to run the silver surfer they told me all the tools were destroyed. They made way to many kits. So many were sold to liquidators across the country. I was buying the kits for 1.00 at one point. Some distributors could not give them away they were a few good sellers but most were losers for them.


Heck, the ones I have/had, I bought for like 98 cents at TRU.
Same with the Wrestling kits


----------



## derric1968 (Jun 13, 2003)

I have most of them in the stash. I've completed Venom and I have Storm in the paint booth as we speak. I'll be the first to admit that the plastic is thick and soft, the part fit is questionable, the detail is soft, and they are labor intensive as far as assembly goes.

However, for all their shortcomings, I still say they have a certain charm to them. Heck, maybe it's even _because_ of their quirks that I find them irresistible.

I built Venom almost straight out of the box. The only modification I made was a simple adjustment to the base to improve how the figure fits and stands, as well as using Aves and a Dremel to sculpt out a proper mouth. After paint, I think he came out pretty good. On Storm, I decided to get rid of the cartoony rats, skull and skeleton. Basically, if you invest the time in assembly, modify or remove the cartoony elements, and give them a decent paint job, they actually turn out pretty nice.

But I'm not surprised that the molds were destroyed, considering how poorly they sold. Some of the harder to find kits might sell, but as a whole, I'd guess that repopping these kits would be a risky proposition. Personally, I'd rather see more new Marvel kits from Moebius!


----------



## MadCap Romanian (Oct 29, 2005)

Hmmm...Do I hear the sound of "Reverse Engineering"?


----------



## deadmanincfan (Mar 11, 2008)

...more like "major re-engineering"...


----------



## Cro-Magnon Man (Jun 11, 2001)

...or even 'haven't we heard "the molds were destroyed" story somewhere else before'?


----------



## MadCap Romanian (Oct 29, 2005)

Yeah...like the Aurora molds. 

I can't see someone destroying molds. They cost a lot of money to engineer, tool up and make. Even if sales were poor at one point, can't they recover the cost at some other point by keeping the molds and making re-pops? Amt does it all the time (In their 50+ year history)


----------



## Matthew Green (Nov 12, 2000)

MonsterModelMan said:


> Please explain how that is cheating or what do you mean by cheating? A model is a representation of a subject whether it is a car or plane or figure or whatever of some type. The fact that it comes in pieces and you have to build and paint it is all part of it.
> 
> If you choose to not remove seams and to build it OOB is perfectly fine...your choice as to how you choose to do the kit.
> 
> ...


The same way I feel about customizing an action figure is cheating. I said to each their own. I just feel for my tastes I should build the kit as is. Putting putty on it and you are trying to make your own kit. I think the model kit companies do just fine making the seams fit together. Any additional work is just obsessing about something that doesn't need it. I don't customize kits either. I don't paint Hulk Red so I can have a Red Hulk. The paint for a hulk model is green. It's just somethin about me is all. If you want to putty, go for it. I feel it takes away from the integrity of the model is all.


----------



## iamweasel (Aug 14, 2000)

Still, for the life of me, can't figure out how to fit the definition of cheating with either of those two statements.
But then again....ahh never mind.


----------



## Matthew Green (Nov 12, 2000)

iamweasel said:


> Still, for the life of me, can't figure out how to fit the definition of cheating with either of those two statements.
> But then again....ahh never mind.


You can't? Well let me try and help. You have two model kits. One you can't tell where the seams are and the other one you can see a little seam. The first one cheated making people think it's one piece and it wasn't a model kit because he put putty on the seams to make them disappear thus giving the illusion that it's a statue and not a regular model kit. Thus he is cheating by destroying the integrity of the model kit.

If that is you, go for it. It is just not my way.


----------



## otto (Jan 1, 1970)

Thats not cheating...thats LYING! Dagnab, putty slinging shucksters! Well maybe not a lie as such, but witholding the truth! Dis remembering certain facts and such.


----------



## MightyMax (Jan 21, 2000)

I have all of these except the last in the line when they swapped bases for a few figures.
I paid betwen 10 and 12 bucks for them at the LHS. Anyway the comment was made that these were made fast and cheap to turn a buck for Toybiz. I disagree as they hired some of the top GK kit sculptors for these. They are nice figures but some suffer from bad fit because of the way they were cut into kits for molding.
As far a molds being destroyed. It may be and probably is fact. Toybiz was bought by Marvel and both companies had a period of huge financial loss. I want to say Marvel even declared bankruptcy. So maybe to get some much needed revenue they scrapped a bunch of stuff. The kit molds being part of the scuttling.

Cheers
Max Bryant


----------



## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Matt, that's the craziest thing I (and many of us, apparently) ever heard.

If puttying to make a clean-looking model is cheating, then why isn't _painting _cheating? After all, the kit didn't _come _with paint.

I'm sure you must realize that the object of building a model is to make a miniature representation of a full-sized thing. If that full-sized thing didn't have seams, then the obligation of the modeler is to remove seams where they don't belong. I'm fairly sure people don't have seams down their arms and legs.


----------



## otto (Jan 1, 1970)

The craziest thing we ever heard...and weve heard some pretty crazy things I tells ya! JohnP, the only thing more dishonest than a putty flinger is a paint slinger! Dont even get me started on those guys...And what about the glue smearers? A model is a box of parts, Whats up with these guys glueing all those parts together? If the company wanted the darn things assembled they would have come that way! Its like buying a box of nails and welding them all together! Some people.....pfffht!


----------



## spideydroogy (Oct 15, 2010)

otto said:


> The craziest thing we ever heard...and weve heard some pretty crazy things I tells ya! JohnP, the only thing more dishonest than a putty flinger is a paint slinger! Dont even get me started on those guys...And what about the glue smearers? A model is a box of parts, Whats up with these guys glueing all those parts together? If the company wanted the darn things assembled they would have come that way! Its like buying a box of nails and welding them all together! Some people.....pfffht!


Stop! You guys are crackin' me up! What's funny is how we are supposed to be discussing the Toy Biz repops. I personally have two Spider-man, Venom and the Ghost Rider kit still in the shrink wrap. Seems like ebay usually has some of these floating around for reasonable prices. I picked up the Ghost Rider kit at Big Lots for $3. I don't think the fan base is there to release these again. The first step to recovery is to recognize you have a problem. My name is Mark and I am a model cheater.....and glue smearer...and paint slinger. There, I said it.


----------



## Aurora-brat (Oct 23, 2002)

I was working for Toy Biz as a consultant when they first started talking about doing a figure kit line. I tried to get them to use Andy Yanchus and Dave Cockrum from the Aurora team, both were very excited about getting involved. But the management at Toy biz felt they wanted to use current Marvel artists to design the new kits. Unfortunately these artists had no experience with designing injection molded styrene kits. Nor did the sculptors they were using. Additionally, these kits were supposed to be done in a constant scale, much like the Monster Scenes and Prehistoric Scenes, so that dioramas including several figures could be created. There was even talk of doing a large Danger Room kit to display the X-Men.

But alas, the kit line was handed off to different project managers that had no understanding of model kits and the end result was pretty pathetic.

I still have some copies of early concept sketches stashed somewhere. If I can dig them out, I'll scan them and post them so you guys can see what might have been.


----------



## Mitchellmania (Feb 14, 2002)

Seams pop out at me when I see a build up. There's a guy on EBay selling 
"professional air brushed" build ups for hundreds of dollars and the first thing
I see (besides a schlocky looking airbrushed model) is the seams!! 
I hate removing seams, but I do my best to make them less noticeable. Some people like the "just as I built them as a kid " ideal, which is cool.


----------



## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

An employee at the late great HiWay Hobby built the Captain America kit. She did an immaculate job, too. I got the kit, I think, because of her buildup. Boy was I surprised to see how bad the kit really was (and all the more impressed at her buildup!)


----------



## clark_savage (Jan 24, 2003)

John P and Otto -- you are so hilarious... and so on the point!! The naysayer's argument just falls apart when you guys use his own logic against him.

On the instrution sheet for the Captain America kit (which I have not built but I bought it because I loved the sculpt) there actually is a byline. The sculpter's name is Sandy Collera if memory serves. This gentleman shares the same name with the SPFX technician who directed the Batman short film "Batman: Dead End". Anyone can verify that they are indeed the same person?


----------



## pugknows (May 28, 2002)

They were soft in detail and lost a lot from the original sculpts but they were plastic kits and at the time they were all we could get...heck, they are still the only plastic kits outside of the Spiderman, Cap. , Hulk kits and few others from the Marvel Universe. I find the plastic is easy to scrape and clean and have been very happy with the finished product. I've finished 7 kits and have a couple more close. Here are some Monster Model Review episodes of 3 kits and I'm getting close to doing a Venom episode soon. Anyone finished with Venom let me know. I too would like to see more Marvel in plastic and am looking forward to Moebius's second Ironman and thankful for their Green Goblin and new Spidey. I think Manthing needs to be made into a plastic model kit..... or Colossus..

Thor





The Thing





Rhino





Rob


----------



## Matthew Green (Nov 12, 2000)

John P said:


> Matt, that's the craziest thing I (and many of us, apparently) ever heard.
> 
> If puttying to make a clean-looking model is cheating, then why isn't _painting _cheating? After all, the kit didn't _come _with paint.
> 
> I'm sure you must realize that the object of building a model is to make a miniature representation of a full-sized thing. If that full-sized thing didn't have seams, then the obligation of the modeler is to remove seams where they don't belong. I'm fairly sure people don't have seams down their arms and legs.


 
Do you also putty your Star Wars figures so you cannot see the joints? Do you putty an X-men figure because you can see the screw knob which holds the shoulder in place?

Clark, My argument didn't fall apart. Why? Because there is no right or wrong answer. That's why.


----------



## Zombie_61 (Apr 21, 2004)

John P said:


> I'm fairly sure people don't have seams down their arms and legs.


It depends on the person. A good friend of mine was wounded in Iraq, and he has a pretty nasty "seam" running down the outside of his right thigh from hip to knee.

I do what I can to hide seams on my builds, not always successfully I must admit. I haven't done it on an action figure yet, but if I really cared that much about it or if I was that displeased with the appearance of the figure, I would (to be honest, if I was that displeased I wouldn't buy it in the first place). I don't consider it cheating, more like correcting an imperfection.

To each their own. I also have to admit, sometimes it seems building models was a lot more fun when I was much younger and didn't care about seams...or even a half-way decent paint job, for that matter. 

Back to the topic, I quite like some of the Toy Biz kits--the Beast, Captain America, Ghost Rider, the Hulk, the level 2 Spider-Man, Thor, Wolverine--but the engineering and the odd plastic make them a challenge to build...especially if you prefer puttying the seams.


----------



## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Matthew Green said:


> Do you also putty your Star Wars figures so you cannot see the joints? Do you putty an X-men figure because you can see the screw knob which holds the shoulder in place?
> 
> Clark, My argument didn't fall apart. Why? Because there is no right or wrong answer. That's why.


Action figures and model kits are two completely different things, two completely different passtimes, two completely different... everything. Action figures are toys. Models are not toys - they are at the very least a craft, and can be, by some, elevated to a form of art.

But, being at its root a hobby, it is, of course, up to the hobbyist how much work he wants to put into a model. There's nothing wrong with NOT hiding seams if you don't want to. Just don't call serious modelers "cheaters" for doing what WE do. Especially since you're the _only _modeler I've encountered with your particular philosophy.


----------



## rkoenn (Dec 18, 2007)

I'll tell you this, take a model with all the seams showing to an IPMS contest and I can guarantee that you won't have a chance of getting a prize. That being that, every modeler can build his model the way he wants as long as it makes him happy. But seams are there because they are part of the production process for styrene models, not because the manufacturer thought they should be there so you could see it. A seam is part of a styrene model and as the technology has developed they have managed to hide them better. To me the ultimate build is not to have a seam showing where the actual figure or object would not have a seam. A leg on a figure in real life, or fantasy for us monster modelers, would not be there so it makes sense for a dedicated modeler to fill it in on his build. But again as a previous post mentioned, I remember being perfectly happy when I was a kid simply getting the model together and slapping some Testor namels on it. However nowadays I strive for as much perfection as I can apply within reasonable limits. Usually it is more a matter of time than building or material limitations.

Bob K.


----------



## Aurora-brat (Oct 23, 2002)

I think when he compared models to action figures was the point at which attempting to explain seem filling became futile.


----------



## Matthew Green (Nov 12, 2000)

Hey, I know plenty of people that consider action figures as models. They pose their action figures on a shelf and never play with em. They got them for their artistic value.


----------



## Aurora-brat (Oct 23, 2002)

Hey yourself! I know pleanty of modelers who don't consider action figures models because you don't have to do anything except remove them from the blister card. That is cheating in my book!

But hey, to each his own I suppose.


----------



## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Yeah - buying them already assembled and painted is cheating! :lol:


----------



## TAY666 (Jan 8, 2000)

clark_savage said:


> On the instrution sheet for the Captain America kit (which I have not built but I bought it because I loved the sculpt) there actually is a byline. The sculpter's name is Sandy Collera if memory serves. This gentleman shares the same name with the SPFX technician who directed the Batman short film "Batman: Dead End". Anyone can verify that they are indeed the same person?


Yes, they are the same person.


----------



## pugknows (May 28, 2002)

TAY666 said:


> Yes, they are the same person.


Sandy also did these
HULK, Silver Surfer, THING, SPIDERMAN, VENOM


----------



## Aurora-brat (Oct 23, 2002)

clark_savage said:


> On the instrution sheet for the Captain America kit (which I have not built but I bought it because I loved the sculpt) there actually is a byline. The sculpter's name is Sandy Collera if memory serves. This gentleman shares the same name with the SPFX technician who directed the Batman short film "Batman: Dead End". Anyone can verify that they are indeed the same person?


Of all the Toy Biz Marvel kits, the Captain America was my favorite. The only thing I found wrong with it was the missing star on Cap's back (which I added to my model). I was also not crazy about the base so I put the two figures on a flat base so the dramatic pose could be viewed from every angle. Here is my take on it.


----------



## northjason (May 10, 2003)

Aurora-brat said:


> Hey yourself! I know pleanty of modelers who don't consider action figures models because you don't have to do anything except remove them from the blister card. That is cheating in my book!
> 
> But hey, to each his own I suppose.



Just thought I'd interject here that action figures can be an art form (or craft form, whatever). There's a pretty large group of people who customize action figures, myself included, and some of the work they do is pretty amazing. While the goals of modeling (being the accurate miniature representation of a real thing) differ from those of figure customizing (to create a homemade item with the look of a factory-produced figure), many of the techniques and tools are from the same basic school. Action figure customizing and model building are sort of like two families from the same genus. I personally did figures before I got into models, and still do them for Ebay sales. 

Not that you asked, of course, but I've been thinking about how these two communities are largely unaware of one another for a while now.

And yes, seriously OT.

Sadly, Toybiz is pretty much out of business, with most of their mold inventory being unaccounted for or gone as far as I know. Marvel sold the master license for their characters to Hasbro back around 2007, ran a couple lines of Image comics figures, then just ceased to be.


----------



## Aurora-brat (Oct 23, 2002)

northjason said:


> Just thought I'd interject here that action figures can be an art form (or craft form, whatever). There's a pretty large group of people who customize action figures, myself included, and some of the work they do is pretty amazing. While the goals of modeling (being the accurate miniature representation of a real thing) differ from those of figure customizing (to create a homemade item with the look of a factory-produced figure), many of the techniques and tools are from the same basic school. Action figure customizing and model building are sort of like two families from the same genus. I personally did figures before I got into models, and still do them for Ebay sales.
> 
> Not that you asked, of course, but I've been thinking about how these two communities are largely unaware of one another for a while now.
> 
> And yes, seriously OT.


I actually am aware of those that turn action figures into models. However the claim was made that filling seems and the like was "cheating" and that models should be assembled to look like action figures, with their seems left intact. This actually goes 180 degrees in the opposite direction of what you describe!


----------



## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

And 180° out from anything anyone who has ever built a model whom I've ever interacted with in several decades has thought.

I think customized action figures are pretty cool - I enjoy seeing them in ToyFare. Very creative.


----------



## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

pugknows said:


> They were soft in detail and lost a lot from the original sculpts but they were plastic kits and at the time they were all we could get...heck, they are still the only plastic kits outside of the Spiderman, Cap. , Hulk kits and few others from the Marvel Universe. I find the plastic is easy to scrape and clean and have been very happy with the finished product. I've finished 7 kits and have a couple more close. Here are some Monster Model Review episodes of 3 kits and I'm getting close to doing a Venom episode soon. Anyone finished with Venom let me know. I too would like to see more Marvel in plastic and am looking forward to Moebius's second Ironman and thankful for their Green Goblin and new Spidey. I think Manthing needs to be made into a plastic model kit..... or Colossus..
> 
> Thor
> YouTube - Monster Model Review #108 The Mighty Thor by Toybiz
> ...




Great reviews and builds Rob....and agree about Man Thing and more Marvel in plastic. I think Man Thing could be popular with horror modellers too.


----------

