# J-2 "scrim interior" reference request



## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

For my "in flight" version, to be suspended from the ceiling, I've decided to go with the hero miniature light scheme. At one point I'd assembled a terrific series of scrim interior reference shots, but the images seem to have mysteriously taken flight from my computer. 

Rumor has it there are one or two Jupiter 2 experts on this forum, and I'd be grateful if you'd be kind enough to point me in the right direction interior reference-wise.

Any data depicting the correct alignment/ construction/ lighting, material make-up of the scrim interior would be helpful. 

I'm not looking to perfectly replicate the original miniature of course; I simply want to arrive at a decent facsimile thereof.

Thanks in advance for helping me to get my Moebius J-2 model off the ground.


----------



## bert model maker (Feb 19, 2002)

Rob, You have 2 1/2 PMs with scrimm info.The 1/2 was one sent to soon by me hitting the send without realizing i did that.
Bert


----------



## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

Much obliged, Bert. 

:thumbsup:


----------



## bert model maker (Feb 19, 2002)

Your welcome Rob.


----------



## Fernando Mureb (Nov 12, 2006)

Hi Rob

I never bothered to collect material related to this screen, because I never planned to build a version in flight.

Anyway, I did a search on my computer and found this well known photo of the J2 built from scratch by Ron Gross. I hope it can help you in any way.


----------



## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

Thanks, Fernando.

It's funny... I've looked at a lot of "scrim interior" shots over the last couple of days, but none of them faithfully replicates the background graphic as depicted in the screen grab below...










Specifically, I'm referring to the way the twin arcing (graphic) lines taper to a slight point at the crest. It almost appears as if the backlit scrim is "V"-shaped (as opposed to flat or curved), with the curved lines intersecting at the middle/ corner.


----------



## Ron Gross (Jan 2, 2009)

Fernando and Rob,
As proud as I am of my scratch build, the scrim interior is one thing that I didn't get quite right. I always assumed, along with almost everyone else, that that the two arcs were semi-circular, but that wasn't the case. I caught hell for this as recently as WF, in fact, when Gary Makatura asked me, "how could you finally crack the hull contour mystery, and then blow that?" Oh well.

He is right, but not the first person to notice that there was something wrong with the common scrim conception. I am attaching an image of Norm Sockwell's refinement, which I believe is very close to the truth. I hope this helps.
Ron G.


----------



## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

Thanks, Ron.

It was certainly not my intension to call anyone's work into question. I'm normally the last person to get all nit-picky about stuff like this, but faced with the task of having to scratch my own scrim I would naturally like to replicate the hero miniature as closely as possible (especially since "getting it right" in this case will require little extra effort on my part).

Looking at the photo posted above, I'm still wondering if the original scrim was, in fact, "folded" along a central line, with the open ends of the resulting "V"-shaped wall bracketing the interior window frame. If not folded it was almost certainly curved -- a condition that would explain the not-quite-semi-circular contours seen.


----------



## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

Thing is, Ron, I think you were partly right all along. 

I strongly suspect the lines in question formed perfect semi-circles when originally created. The warpage we're seeing is likely due to the fact that the scrim was subsequently shaped into a curve within the miniature.

If you draw what I've described on a piece of paper and then shape the paper into a curve you'll understand why I subscribe to this theory.


----------



## Captain Han Solo (Apr 5, 2002)

Carson Dyle said:


> Thanks, Ron.
> 
> It was certainly not my intension to call anyone's work into question. I'm normally the last person to get all nit-picky about stuff like this, but faced with the task of having to scratch my own scrim I would naturally like to replicate the hero miniature as closely as possible (especially since "getting it right" in this case will require little extra effort on my part).
> 
> Looking at the photo posted above, I'm still wondering if the original scrim was, in fact, "folded" along a central line, with the open ends of the resulting "V"-shaped wall bracketing the interior window frame. If not folded it was almost certainly curved -- a condition that would explain the not-quite-semi-circular contours seen.


I don't believe it was "folded" in any way.Watch "*The Derelict*" Episode.

The end of the episode when the Jupiter Two Takes off..you get a brief scene with a Good view of the interior..It's Quick:freak:.It appears to be the scrim itself(the design), then behind it is the frosted clear/plastic.....

It's a shame you didn't ask Bill Creber when you saw him!


----------



## Ron Gross (Jan 2, 2009)

I tend to agree, although I can see why Rob is looking at the "folded" theory, as it will produce a similar result. But when I spoke to Gary M. at WF about this, he had some pretty good evidence to the extent that Norm's revision is indeed pretty close. Also the fact that the scrim was merely painted on a backlit platform, rather than constructed in 3D, as I did for my scratch build. I didn't have much time at WF to pursue this in detail, but I will give him a call and see if I can find out more.

BTW, Rob, I did not take any comments as calling anyone's work into question. That includes Gary M.'s at WF, whose observations were made in a light-hearted and flattering context. At least I got the hull contour right, which was my main goal, and as early as 1992! (hand drawn plans).
Ron G.


----------



## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

I have no idea what this is, whether it's original or not?
Edit after BP below: Right, that was from F&SF Modelling. I remember now. Removed it, before it causes confusion.
Another edit: a couple years ago, someone on this site posted pictures of the original wooden (?) figures that stood in the windows. Can't begin to find what thread that might have been on and I can't remember if the original scrim had been pictured there. Does anyone else remember these photos?


----------



## Captain Han Solo (Apr 5, 2002)

starseeker said:


> I have no idea what this is, whether it's original or not?


No that is* NOT* original.

That is a Jim Key Photo of the 4' Jupiter Two after a "restoration".


----------



## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

beatlepaul said:


> IWatch "*The Derelict*" Episode.


Thanks; I'll check it out.

As I mentioned earlier, I'm no expert, and am happy to defer to those who've researched the matter. Based on the image I posted the scrim appeared to be curved, but it wouldn't surprise me either way. 

At then end of the day I'll go with whatever "looks better" from my entirely subjective point of view.



beatlepaul said:


> It's a shame you didn't ask Bill Creber when you saw him!


Lol, Bill wouldn't have the foggiest notion as to the construction of this particular detail.

Thanks for the feedback, guys. It is greatly appreciated.


----------



## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

BTW Ron, thanks for the "Norm Stockwell" lead. I managed to track down online instructions for the construction of his 24" J-2 scrim interior. Curved scrim or not, I like his approach and intend to follow his lead.


----------



## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

Not to throw oil on the fire, but might it be easier to go back to 'first cause' when trying to replicate the scrim? (and I may get murdered for suggesting this!)

Looking at the effect created, I believe the intent was to emulate shadows thrown by the interior braces and girders. I have NO idea what kind of intense lighting source there would have to be up in the 'rafters' to get that effect, but that's how it's always seemed to me. Maybe it's meant to be light shining through the top dome, with the Astrogator lowered to the deck? The criss-cross would come from different light sources.

Yeah, I'm sure that sounds silly, but given that it seems it's meant to infer the interior, well, nothing else seems logical to me. 

With the Flying Sub it looked like they just had random smears of paint on the frosted plexi and that seems to do the job much better- OTOH they had the additional 'filter' of filming under water to hide things.

and while I have no pictures of the figures in the Jupiter 2 to contribute, I do have something of the figures from the Chariot, taken in 1984 at the Worldcon in L.A., so the construction should be similar.


----------

