# Forbidden Planet over rated?



## bizzarobrian (Oct 4, 2009)

Take away Robbie & Ann Francis & what do you have? This Island Earth in my mind is twice the film.


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## DocJam00 (May 18, 2010)

Ever read the original story This Island Earth is based on? VERY different!

Also, Forbidden Planet is based on Shakespeare's The Tempest: Moebius is Prospero, Robby is Ariel, the monster is Caliban, Ann Francis is Miranda and so forth.

I like both films, but I don't find myself watching This Island Earth all that often.


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## buzzconroy (Jun 28, 2002)

Wrong place to post this, it should be posted here.This is a modeling forum.
Randy

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/forumdisplay.php?f=18


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## scotpens (Sep 6, 2003)

Apples and oranges.

_This Island Earth_ is essentially space-opera hokum. It's B-movie material dressed up with A-budget production values and special effects. The acting is wooden and the science incomprehensible. (Is an "interociter" anything more than a big fancy two-way television set with an odd-shaped screen and a destructo ray? What in heck is the "thermal barrier"?) It has style but little substance.

_Forbidden Planet_ is a film of ideas, with an intelligent, literate script. It deals with issues like human frailty and human arrogance, the responsibility that comes with power, and the influence of the subconscious mind. And it still looks great after more than 50 years. Besides, it introduced Robby, who's had a longer career than a lot of human actors. He's more articulate than most of them, too.

And will somebody please move this thread to the Movies board where it belongs?


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## bizzarobrian (Oct 4, 2009)

scotpens said:


> Apples and oranges.
> 
> _This Island Earth_ is essentially space-opera hokum. It's B-movie material dressed up with A-budget production values and special effects. The acting is wooden and the science incomprehensible. (Is an "interociter" anything more than a big fancy two-way television set with an odd-shaped screen and a destructo ray? What in heck is the "thermal barrier"?) It has style but little substance.
> 
> ...


It had a big budget.The ID monster effect was better? The mat paintings in TIE were amazing.


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## Zombie_61 (Apr 21, 2004)

I voted for _Forbidden Planet_, and I can only explain my rationale for doing so in this way: I've seen _Forbidden Planet_ several times, and I enjoyed it each time; I saw _This Island Earth_ once, and that was more than enough for me. Does that make one film better than the other? Certainly not, but it's the only criteria I have. :dude:


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

Most of my favorite science fiction films are from the 1950s. _Forbidden Planet_ tops the list for me, but there are plenty of other great films to choose from. _This Island Earth_ is in no way a bad film. In fact, I think that it was unfortunate that _MST3K_ chose that film for their feature. It is a much better film than they characterize it as. I thought the special effects were extremely good, often on a par with _Forbidden Planet_.


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

The Disney cartoon monster ruins it for me with Forbidden Planet. Day the Earth Stood Still is better than either.


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## otto (Jan 1, 1970)

I thought both were good, but I've always liked Forbidden Planet better.


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

I don't think Forbidden Planet is overrated, but I do think This Island Earth is underrated. Both films are quite dated nowdays. 

Forbidden Planet suffers from being very static and looking almost like a stage play. Painted backgrounds, simple flat sets and interiors, etc. Of course the story is loosely based on The Tempest. The movie might be more interesting if some of the adult nature themes regarding the Doctor, his Daughter, etc. could be explored. Also much fine detail is lost in the movie and things have to be pointed out for you to notice... like the ID Monster having a goatee beard (to match Moebius). Robby the Robot really does not do anything for the story, and sits out the movie's climax doing nothing. 

Actually the book for This Island Earth and the movie are pretty much identical... as far as the book went. The book ends with Cal building the Interocitor and receiving the invitation to board the robot plane... 

The two movies are quite different from each other and a bit hard to compare. This Island Earth is more of a Flash Gordon space opera... intergalactic war, aliens coming to Earth to get assistance to save their planet, giant bug monsters, freezing tubes, flying saucers, etc. Forbidden Planet is more of a romance/murder mystery set in the future. The special effects in both movies are really very well done. In many ways TIS has more imaginative effects. FP's are limited more to the C57 flying in front of a matte painting, paintings of the planetscape, paintings of the Krell machinery, etc. Not that they are "bad" but they are more static type effects. The use of animation for the ID Monster, IMHO is very dated today. Its not a realistic animation but very cartooney. I remember as a kid being disappointed by the cartoon nature of the monster. FP's electronic score is very badly dated too. A new score would help the movie a lot. Nothing is worse than old, dated, electronic music.

I always wondered in FP if Robby was so smart why didn't he figure out what was going on? If the Captain, who isnt the brightest bulb in the lamp can figure out that Moebius is the ID monster etc Robby should have been able to.


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## Chinxy (May 23, 2003)

I'm not voting because I like them both!!!!!!!!!!:thumbsup:

Chinxy!:dude:


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## beck (Oct 22, 2003)

i'm wit Chinxy !!
hb


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## Seaview (Feb 18, 2004)

Amongst several other reasons, I really prefer the C-57D to the TIE Flying Saucer.


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## HabuHunter32 (Aug 22, 2009)

Forbidden Planet is one of my top five favorite Sci-Fi films of all time. This Island Earth isn't in my top one hundred. Don't get me wrong. I like TIE. It's just not in the same leauge as FP. IMHO.

I voted Forbidden Planet. :thumbsup:


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

Apples and Oranges...
FP is a more literary film, TIE is more of a adventure/mystery one. Both have nice SFX for their time and established a standard few films of that day could meet.
Design wise I think FP was better but it's use of a Theramin Synthesizer for both the music and sound effects was very confusing. TIE was a great film as the motivations and the circumstances remained a mystery- once you found out what the aliens were doing and why it seemed to just coast.
TIE truly excels with the MST3K version...

.


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## LGFugate (Sep 11, 2000)

Even if he had worked out that Morbius was the source of the ID monster, he couldn't have told anyone, for that would have caused harm to come to Morbius, something that Robby was programmed against. (see the scene where Morbius commands Robby to disintegrate the good Captain...)

Larry


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## Dave P (Jan 5, 2005)

The theremin was not used in Forbidden Planet:

"The movie's innovative electronic music score (credited as "electronic tonalities", partly to avoid having to pay movie industry music guild fees) was composed by Louis and Bebe Barron. MGM producer Dore Schary discovered the couple quite by chance at a beatnik nightclub in Greenwich Village while on a family Christmas visit to New York City. Schary hired them on the spot to compose the film music score. The theremin (which was not used in Forbidden Planet) had been used as early as 1945, in Spellbound, but their score is widely credited with being the first completely electronic film score. The soundtrack preceded the Moog synthesizer of 1964 by almost a decade.

Using equations from the 1948 book, Cybernetics: Or, Control and Communication in the Animal and the Machine by mathematician Norbert Wiener, Louis Barron constructed the electronic circuits which he used to generate the "bleeps, blurps, whirs, whines, throbs, hums and screeches". Most of the tonalities were generated using a circuit called a ring modulator. After recording the base sounds, the Barrons further manipulated the material by adding effects, such as reverberation and delay, and reversing or changing the speed of certain sounds.

As Louis and Bebe Barron did not belong to the Musicians' Union, their work was not considered for an Academy Award, in either the soundtrack or special effects category."

Also see http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4486840


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## IanWilkinson (Apr 23, 2010)

Since this is a Modeling forum... what film do you think has spawned the most kits?


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## bizzarobrian (Oct 4, 2009)

Trek Ace said:


> Most of my favorite science fiction films are from the 1950s. _Forbidden Planet_ tops the list for me, but there are plenty of other great films to choose from. _This Island Earth_ is in no way a bad film. In fact, I think that it was unfortunate that _MST3K_ chose that film for their feature. It is a much better film than they characterize it as. I thought the special effects were extremely good, often on a par with _Forbidden Planet_.


Especially when you consider the time period it was made.The Wizard of Oz had ghastly horrible mat paintings.I like Forbidden Planet as well but I also find The Thing From Another World a better film.Then there`s Robot Monster.......scared ya for a sec eh?!! lol I`d love to see an Exeter kit in styrene! As well as a mutant of course!! Anyone who kills the Professor from Gilligan`s Island has my vote! Exeter has a certain Phil Hartman mojo working for him.


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## bizzarobrian (Oct 4, 2009)

bizzarobrian said:


> Especially when you consider the time period it was made.The Wizard of Oz had ghastly horrible mat paintings.I like Forbidden Planet as well but I also find The Thing From Another World a better film.Then there`s Robot Monster.......scared ya for a sec eh?!! lol I`d love to see an Exeter kit in styrene! As well as a mutant of course!! Anyone who kills the Professor from Gilligan`s Island has my vote! Exeter has a certain Phil Hartman mojo working for him.


FB I think ran out of money when the ID was introduced.


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## bizzarobrian (Oct 4, 2009)

I admit a huge plot hole had to be ignored in TIE.The aliens were all high on themselves with their advanced tech skills but they still felt compelled to summon help from Earth.Maybe they knew they lacked the strong emotions that Earthlings have to get the job done.


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## RogueJ (Oct 29, 2000)

Surely you can't be serious? I know, don't call you Shirley, but TIE over Forbidden Planet? FP has a better story, superior writing, superior production values and far superior special effects. I'm not wishing to malign TIE, it is what it is. Fifties shlock dress up in better than average production values. It just doesn't hold a candle to FP.

Rogue


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## jbond (Aug 29, 2002)

Forbidden Planet has always suffered from its flat direction (this was the guy that directed "Lassie Come Home" or something). But I love everything else about the movie--I do think it's far more intelligent than TIE and to me it has one of the great science fiction film plots (I would add 2001 and Five Million Years to Earth to that list). Out of the films mentioned I would say The Day the Earth Stood Still has the best execution--strong performances, a very intelligent script (although without the twist of the original story, the plot itself isn't that mind-blowing), great direction by Robert Wise, very convincing special effects and a fantastic score. But Forbidden Planet just has the most ambition--it's a great mystery and seems like a story John Campbell would have published.


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## Krel (Jun 7, 2000)

djnick66 said:


> Actually the book for This Island Earth and the movie are pretty much identical... as far as the book went. The book ends with Cal building the Interocitor and receiving the invitation to board the robot plane...


I have to disagree, the storyline of the book has major differences from the movie.

The book is comprised of three serialized stories, maybe four. The first story ends with Cal getting ready to board the robot plane. The aliens want humans to secretly build interociters for them, and Cal was hired to run the operation for them. My favorite scene from the book is where Cal is afraid that they are going to have a labor strike. When the aliens ask if they could just crush it, Cal panics with visions of being hauled before the House Un-American Activities Committee. I can't think of another sf story that has the House Un-American Activities Committee in it. :lol:

If you read Steve Rubins's articles on FP, you find two fact on the movie. One, it is an unfinished film. The studio pulled the editor from the movie and never assigned another. That accounts for some of the 'flatness', the time period it was filmed in also accounts for some. Two, FP was intended to be a strictly B-movie, but the studio people working on the film rebelled. They decided that they were going to do it right. If it had been written as an A-budget film, it might have been a bit 'tighter'.

David.


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## Captain Han Solo (Apr 5, 2002)

Personally, I enjoy Both Films.

Having said that however, Forbidden Planet , In my Humble opinion, Is the better of the two.

Every Sci-Fi Film and Tv Show can trace some connection to "Planet".
Star Trek, Lost In Space Etc.....).

Because of this, and because we are stll feeling it's influence to this very day,What, some 50 + Years??!?, I say Forbidden Planet is NOT over Rated.

Dated???Perhaps..In some ways, but it's all relative. All films are dated at some point because of Technology..Even the current Sci-Fi Flavors of the week some of us enjoy now, will be dated.

So, I voted that "Forbidden Planet" is Better than "This Island Earth":thumbsup:


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## Mark McGovern (Apr 25, 1999)

Let's consider the strengths and weaknesses of these two films:

_FORBIDDEN PLANET:_

Anne Francis in a miniskirt
Robby the Robot
Animated monster
The C-57D
Miniature Krell machine effects
Walter Pidgeon as the antagonist
Scary electronic sound effects and footprints formed by approaching creature
_THIS ISLAND EARTH:_

Faith Domergue soaking wet, then in skin-tight coveralls
No robot
Metaluna Mutant
Featureless Metalunan spaceship
Glass shots of Metaluna
Jeff Morrow in goofy headpiece
Wires visible on Zagon's meteor weapons
Clearly _Planet_ is the better picture. But I'd rather watch _T.I.E. _than any of the CGI-driven dreck they currently run on SYFY.


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

Films can't help being a product of the time when they were created.

Films don't change over time, audiences do. They need to be appreciated for what they are - classics.


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## Cro-Magnon Man (Jun 11, 2001)

IanWilkinson said:


> Since this is a Modeling forum... what film do you think has spawned the most kits?


 
Good question - Alien 2, perhaps, which spawned the range of Halcyon kits?


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## scotpens (Sep 6, 2003)

djnick66 said:


> . . . In many ways TIS has more imaginative effects. FP's are limited more to the C57 flying in front of a matte painting, paintings of the planetscape, paintings of the Krell machinery, etc. Not that they are "bad" but they are more static type effects. The use of animation for the ID Monster, IMHO is very dated today. Its not a realistic animation but very cartooney. I remember as a kid being disappointed by the cartoon nature of the monster. _FP_'s electronic score is very badly dated too. A new score would help the movie a lot. Nothing is worse than old, dated, electronic music.


What about the design of _Forbidden Planet_'s C-57D as opposed to the Metalunan saucer? The interior of the C-57D looks functional and believable. The spaceship interior in _TIE_ is absurdly roomy. Why do they need all that empty space? And WTF is that atom sculpture on a pole for? 

I've never had a problem with the cartoonish animation of the Id Monster. I can accept it as a manifestation of Morbius' subconscious mind. It isn't meant to look real.

And _FP_'s groundbreaking electronic score sounds just as "right" today as it did 50 years ago. Nothing dated about it at all.



> I always wondered in FP if Robby was so smart why didn't he figure out what was going on? If the Captain, who isnt the brightest bulb in the lamp can figure out that Moebius is the ID monster etc Robby should have been able to.


Robby DID figure it out. Remember when the monster is approaching the house and Morbius orders Robby to kill it? Robby goes into an electronic tizzy and shuts down, following his previously demonstrated built-in inhibition against harming rational beings. Cmdr. Adams then says, "He knows it's your other self."

In fact, I always wondered just HOW Robby was able to draw that conclusion. Robby has many amazing talents, but there's no indication that he could read minds.



bizzarobrian said:


> The Wizard of Oz had ghastly horrible mat paintings . .


_The Wizard of Oz_ is a fantasy, so the obviously painted backdrops (some of which were forced-perspective cycloramas on the sets, and some of which were matte paintings) work in the context of the story.


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## apls (Dec 5, 2005)

I saw Forbidden Planet in the mid eighties on a very big screen, the best way to see it. I am getting so tired of these unnessasary debates about what is overrated. If I saw this film today, in a revival setting, the cinema would be filled with hipster dofuses, laughing at it. In a few weeks, I am going to see Metropolis in my city. Forbidden Planet still holds up, along with The Day the Earth Stood Still, the red scare 1950's. Sadly the theme of all three of them are still with us today. I like This Island Earth, as well. Put everything on blu ray allready!


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## Zombie_61 (Apr 21, 2004)

Mark McGovern said:


> Let's consider the strengths and weaknesses of these two films:
> 
> _FORBIDDEN PLANET:_
> 
> Anne Francis in a miniskirt


Anne Francis in a miniskirt is a _weakness_? Which movie were _you_ watching??? 



On a side note, to promote the 50th Anniversary Special Edition dvd release of _Forbidden Planet_ in 2006, there was a special screening of the newly refurbished film at the Egyptian Theater in Hollywood, California; Anne Francis, Warren Stevens, Richard Anderson, and Earl Holliman were in attandance. Though she was 75 years old at the time, I can tell you Anne Francis was still an extremely attractive and charming woman.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

^Yeah, what HE said!


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## Mark McGovern (Apr 25, 1999)

Zombie_61 said:


> Anne Francis in a miniskirt is a _weakness_? Which movie were _you_ watching???


 To quote that iconic figure, Luther Heggs, "Let me clarify this." One gal had to be a strength and one a weakness, for the purposes of comparison in my post (like it's going to decide the fate of these films for All Time, ). If I were to consider the miniskirted La Francis as an entry under the Open Judging or Gold-Silver-Bronze system, such as that used at WonderFest, she would certainly win a Gold; she'd probably get the Most Nibble-worthy Beauty Mark award as well.

But I placed her in contention with Faith Domergue in _T.I.E. _who appeared soaking wet (don't gimme the swimming scene in _Planet_, 'cause Altaira was always screened by some bushes) and later in those coveralls, which she claimed were so tight she couldn't wear any nether garments beneath them. Anne came in second; it didn't help that I'm partial to brunettes, either. Just my two cents' worth.


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## Mr. Wabac (Nov 9, 2002)

Indeed an Apples and Oranges debate. I like both.

If I had to choose, it would be Forbidden Planet as the story (as filmed) is much better. Both still hold up well today, although some of the acting is suspect, as was some of the casting (I think they should have chosen someone younger for Anne Francis' character). Love Walter Pidgeon.

Don't know why everyone dislikes the ID monster; it is classic animation at it's best. Yes, it could be done more "realistically" today, but this was all hand-drawn ! The invisible ID was very well done, right down to the bent steps on the saucer.

I think that is where some of the criticism rests and can be applied to older films. If you watch Citizen Kane for the first time, you are likely to be underwhelmed and wonder why it is so highly regarded. It is because it was ground breaking - it did things that are now taken for granted for film work.

The same can be said for Forbidden Planet and This Island Earth in that both pushed the envelope, and in some cases, broke entirely new ground. As someone mentioned earlier, the soundtrack for FP was entirely electronic, something never tried before; something that predated digital synthesizers by many years.

It has also had an impact on everything that has come after. Appreciate it for what it is, not what it isn't. And if you don't like it, that's just your own personal taste.


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## Gemini1999 (Sep 25, 2008)

You really can't compare the two films equally given how the final product turned out.

Now, if I have to choose, it's going to be Forbidden Planet, and not because of Robby or Altaira. I like the story, I like the production design, I also enjoy the rather unique soundtrack of the film. The idea of the film being a remake of The Tempest just makes it all the better.

This Island Earth....to me, it feels like a classic 1950's "saucer" movie filmed in very brilliant color. It's fun to watch, but on a more simplistic level.

Bryan


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## Zombie_61 (Apr 21, 2004)

Mark McGovern said:


> To quote that iconic figure, Luther Heggs, "Let me clarify this." One gal had to be a strength and one a weakness, for the purposes of comparison in my post (like it's going to decide the fate of these films for All Time, ). If I were to consider the miniskirted La Francis as an entry under the Open Judging or Gold-Silver-Bronze system, such as that used at WonderFest, she would certainly win a Gold; she'd probably get the Most Nibble-worthy Beauty Mark award as well.
> 
> But I placed her in contention with Faith Domergue in _T.I.E. _who appeared soaking wet (don't gimme the swimming scene in _Planet_, 'cause Altaira was always screened by some bushes) and later in those coveralls, which she claimed were so tight she couldn't wear any nether garments beneath them. Anne came in second; it didn't help that I'm partial to brunettes, either. Just my two cents' worth.


Oh, well, when you put it _that_ way... I still disagree. 

But seriously, now that you're explained your rationale I have a better understanding of your previous post. Thanks!


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## Mark McGovern (Apr 25, 1999)

Zombo,

At this late date, it's a moot point either way.


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## JPhil123 (Jan 1, 1970)

djnick66 said:


> I don't think Forbidden Planet is overrated, but I do think This Island Earth is underrated. Both films are quite dated nowdays.
> 
> Forbidden Planet suffers from being very static and looking almost like a stage play. Painted backgrounds, simple flat sets and interiors, etc. Of course the story is loosely based on The Tempest. The movie might be more interesting if some of the adult nature themes regarding the Doctor, his Daughter, etc. could be explored. Also much fine detail is lost in the movie and things have to be pointed out for you to notice... like the ID Monster having a goatee beard (to match Moebius). Robby the Robot really does not do anything for the story, and sits out the movie's climax doing nothing.


Hello,
I agree about the movie appearing to resemble like a stage production, although it looks like much care was taken to make the lighting (both in day and night scenes) look natural. The movie, the C57D and Robby are still great, but I think the movie would be even better if it would have been possible to at least have some key scenes filmed on location out in the desert. I think filming outside adds something in the realism area. I always seem to think about "Lost In Space" when it comes to location filming. Those rare shots of the chariot in the desert, and also where some significant scenes with actors were filmed in natural sunlight, looked far better than the later color episodes that were filmed almost entirely on sound stages. 

Jim


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

Location filming would have helped FP, but I loved the strange sky they used- truely unEarthly at first, then you adjusted to it so you really did not notice it as an effect, but more of a background. 
FP was a state-of-the-art film in it's day, but if you would like to see that the Krell Underground would look like with CGI they basically redid it with Babylon 5's 'Great Machine' inside Epsilon III.


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## bizzarobrian (Oct 4, 2009)

RogueJ said:


> Surely you can't be serious? I know, don't call you Shirley, but TIE over Forbidden Planet? FP has a better story, superior writing, superior production values and far superior special effects. I'm not wishing to malign TIE, it is what it is. Fifties shlock dress up in better than average production values. It just doesn't hold a candle to FP.
> 
> Rogue


TIE was 2 years in the making.And I believe it won an award for SFX.I showed my nephew This Island Earth & he loved it.This is a kid who grew up during Star Wars.Storylines were always lacking depth in the early years.


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

_This Island Earth_ was quite well-received by both critics and the movie-going public when it was released. A very successful film. It really puzzles me why in later years it has been regarded as a "B" picture and often ridiculed, considering it had such superb production values and special effects for it's time.


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## Mark McGovern (Apr 25, 1999)

Ace,

Part of the problem is of course that we're seeing these films out of context - not as the latest acheivements in Sci-Fi storytelling but as 50+ year old artifacts. Of the two, I think _Forbidden Planet_ was a little more ahead of the cinematic standards of its day (although the poster artist couldn't quite let go of the monster-carrying-the-girl motif). But that we're still talking about it and _This Island Earth_ today is a testament to them both.


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## scotpens (Sep 6, 2003)

JPhil123 said:


> . . . I think filming outside adds something in the realism area. I always seem to think about "Lost In Space" when it comes to location filming. Those rare shots of the chariot in the desert, and also where some significant scenes with actors were filmed in natural sunlight, looked far better than the later color episodes that were filmed almost entirely on sound stages.


_Robinson Crusoe on Mars_ also used outdoor locations very effectively, with its Mars-scapes filmed in Death Valley with a Martian sky matted in. Or at least what we thought the Martian sky looked like in 1964.


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## Krel (Jun 7, 2000)

Trek Ace said:


> _This Island Earth_ was quite well-received by both critics and the movie-going public when it was released. A very successful film. It really puzzles me why in later years it has been regarded as a "B" picture and often ridiculed, considering it had such superb production values and special effects for it's time.


It might be because, at the time Universal was considered a "B" level studio (although it wasn't considered a poverty row studio like Columbia), TIE was to prove that they were capable of being an "A" level studio. I read in a book back in the 80s, that the Metaluna scenes you see are actually re-shoots done by Jack Arnold as a favor to the studio. It would would be great to see the original footage, but I doubt it still exists, I've never even seen any photos of the original Metaluna scenes.

They had considered filming FP in the desert, but they didn't think that it would look strange enough, they wanted a real alien looking landscape, with an alien sky. The technology didn't exist back then to replace the sky like in RCOM. They were also thinking of the "B" sf movies from the 50s that filmed in the desert, and they thought it looked cheap. Remember, this was MGM, the top studio, even their "B" movies had to have a certain look.

The poster with Robby carrying Altaira in his arms was from the second advertising campaign. The first ad campaign wasn't as sensationalistic.

Back then filming in a studio, or backlot wasn't considered cheap looking when it was done right. In many films it was purposely chosen over the location shooting. It was all about the 'look' of the film, and the control over the differing elements of the film.

David.


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## scotpens (Sep 6, 2003)

Krel said:


> The technology didn't exist back then to replace the sky like in RCOM.


Certainly it did. The Martian skies in _RCOM_ were simple optical mattes or split-screens. The technology had existed since Linwood Dunn invented the optical printer in 1932, and even before that by various in-camera techniques such as using paintings on glass. The choice to film _FP_ entirely in the studio was an artistic as well as a budgetary one.


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