# Details of the Moebius Jupiter 2 model



## Gary K

Since Frank Winspur has officially announced the Jupiter 2 model at WonderFest, I can tell you some details about the kit and show a few photos. A few factoids:

The studio set fit almost perfectly inside a 52 ft saucer, so that's what I used when I designed the model. The 1/35 scale saucer is a hair under 18" in diameter, which is the largest size that Moebius' budget could handle. (The price of tooling goes WAY up if you go any larger, and the kit would become too expensive for the mass market.)

I sent over 170 sheets of plans and more than 300 reference photos to Moebius.

Decals will be included.

I have a casting of the 4 ft hero model's hull, so I lofted its profile for the Moebius kit.

The entire upper half of the hull lifts off to reveal the interior. There's a lot of space between the interior walls and the edge of the saucer, so scratch-builders can have a field day adding the greebles & rooms we never saw.

The kit has TWO fusion cores - one with the fins extended, and one with the fins retracted.

The model has optional position landing gear, with landing gear wells, as well as outlines for the Chariot hatch and the Space Pod hatch.

The interior reflects the 3rd season version of the upper deck set, which didn't have lighted roof beams. Deleting the roof beams saves tooling costs and provides better access to the interior, but adding scratch-built roof beams should be very straightforward.

There's no lower deck, since it absolutely, positively won't fit inside the hull. Trust me!

The interior of the main airlock is represented, but Dave Metzner had to nix a sliding door for budgetary reasons, since the parts count was already way north of 200. Again, this shouldn't be hard to scratch-build, if you want.

There are a number of clear parts to facilitate lighting.

Dave and Frank allowed me to go absolutely crazy with interior detail, and the model is a near-perfect representation of the studio set. The elevator cage is a delicate work of art! I had help from several LIS experts, and I'll name names in a future article. 

Here are a few early shots of the prototype model, which has undergone numerous changes since the photos were taken....


An overhead view of the prototype, with the ceiling soffit in place. The airlock floor hasn't been added yet. 










The astrogator (the joystick controls will be in the deployed position on the final model) 










One of the flight chairs. They can rotate, like the ones on the show, so the actors can talk to one another.










The circuit board panels will be cast in clear plastic, to simplify lighting











The elevator cage is a work of art. The clear floor panel is supported by crossed beams - just like the original 










A few last words: while I was reviewing the LIS episodes on DVD, I noticed that details of the ship's interior would change seemingly from episode to episode. If the model doesn't have a certain feature you want, you can always scratchbuild the part or buy an aftermarket item. Don't criticize Dave Metzner too harshly if he didn't include every bell & whistle you wanted. Laying out all the kit's parts on a limited number of VERY expensive tools is way more complicated than I thought, and Dave did his best to provide the most bang for the buck. The J2 model ended up being far more detailed than first envisioned, and I commend Dave & Frank for allowing me to run hog wild. 

That's it for now. I'll post more pics & answer questions later.

Cheers,

Gary


----------



## Steve244

whimper....


----------



## JeffG

Oh...my...God!


----------



## BrianM

I'm speechless!...WOW, what an awesome work of art. I predict this will be Moebius' best selling kit by far. Thank you for the sneak peek Gary.


----------



## Tim Nolan

Holy crap. It's gonna' be just awesome! You did one killer job with the design details! I'm in awe, and can't wait to see that box arrive in the mail! The Polar Lights J2 has been the quintessential kit for quite a while, this just surpassed it bu HUGE strides. Thank you guys so much for doing it. This is why Moebius will be an even bigger success than it already is, and around for many years to come. What you've given us all in the last year with these LIS kits is for many of us a lifelong dream. Again, thank you!


----------



## teslabe

I'm just speechless....... If this is just the prototype.:freak: I'm sheechless.
I need to now change my "Depends".:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


----------



## SUNGOD

I'm not a big LIS fan but even I might be tempted by that. I might do it as a UFO and stick some aliens in there.


----------



## Paulbo

Wow! Either some of these photos weren't included in the slideshow at the booth, or I somehow missed them. I love the shot of the astrogator!


----------



## Moebius

Paulbo said:


> Wow! Either some of these photos weren't included in the slideshow at the booth, or I somehow missed them. I love the shot of the astrogator!


I think I had 62 slides in the show at WF, so not everything was in there. I don't think I had these anyways. Can't wait to get one myself!


----------



## RB

Gary K said:


> Don't criticize Dave Metzner too harshly if he didn't include every bell & whistle you wanted.


Gary, I'm pretty sure this kit will result in the naming of firstborns, buying of drinks, and all-around hero worship for Dave. I don't think you gotta worry there!

And thank _you _as well, this looks more than amazing!


----------



## Seaview

I thought that last years' Seaview and this years' Flying Sub were going to be "it", but this Jupiter 2 is going to be, without a doubt, the crowning touch of my model kit building "career". 
THIS is the one I've been waiting for, for the past 44 YEARS!!!
Thank you, Gary, Frank, Dave, and everybody else involved in this MAGNIFICENT project!


----------



## falcondesigns

Now,go forth and build something,until this wonderful model arrives..............thanks Frank and Dave and the rest............


----------



## Gemini1999

Oh my....

I'm swooning.....! That is one beautiful prototype and we've only seen parts of it. I love hearing about and seeing details that people have dreamed about, or killed themselves trying to find ways to cobble it together.

I knew after seeing the detail quality of the Space Pod & Chariot kits, that when a new Jupiter 2 kit was announced, it would not disappoint.

Not spending another dollar on models or model supplies until this kit comes out. I don't need more, trust me. The next model I'm buying will be this one.

Really looking forward to this!

Bryan


----------



## GKvfx

:drunk:

I need some clean underwear.......

:thumbsup:

Gene


----------



## Gary K

Moebius said:


> I think I had 62 slides in the show at WF, so not everything was in there. I don't think I had these anyways. Can't wait to get one myself!


I took some of the pictures when Dave & I reviewed the first prototype this past March. At this point, it hadn't been determined which parts will be solid colored or clear. Before I hit the sack, here are some more pictures of the prototype:



The flight controls. I *think* Dave said somebody at WonderFest nagged him into casting the control panel in clear plastic (FYI, the center screen was sometimes shown rotated 180-degrees from this orientation)











The communications station to the right of the flight controls











Details of the wall behind the freezing tubes











Dave Metzner reassembling the prototype last March. The excess flooring outboard of the inner walls has since been scaled back.











A look inside a landing gear well before the side walls were installed











Sample plan of the ladder to the lower deck - one of 170+ similar plans











Floor plan of the area around the elevator & Space Pod door










Hope these pictures will keep you satisfied for a while. If you want, I can post some more, but it'll have to wait till I finish drawing some more artwork for the J2 decals and critiquing the 2nd test shot of the baby Seaview.

Gary


----------



## WarpCore Breach

Gary, thanks for posting these! Outstanding and stunning work! This kit will be a beauty!

(So much for the Lunar Models 16" Jupiter 2 plus interior I have in the stash!)


----------



## Ductapeforever

Okay, No more wish lists, no crying, whining or whimpering. Don't bug them, let the masters do their work...The Holy Grail of model kits is coming!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## teslabe

After that last dose of pictures, I can sleep well tonight....... Thanks all of you.....


----------



## JeffG

Why? Why are you tempting us with these photos. Why not just starve us all and then eat a big, juicy steak right in front of us! Seriously though, that's awesome stuff. Can't wait!! Always wanted a really good J2 and this is IT!


----------



## GKvfx

Gary K said:


> .........Before I hit the sack, here are some more pictures of the prototype.........


Dammit Gary - I'm running out of underwear!

Gene

PS - don't stop on my account...... :wave:


----------



## tardis61

*O M G*

That is without doubt one of the most exciting prospective models I have seen in 20 years of model making. Heartfelt congratulations to all the team at Moebius Models. I will get one as soon as they are available

Onwards, Booby!


----------



## Gary K

Okay, one more before I go to bed. Here's a shot of the interior airlock door & control panel. Keep in mind that the door is only 2.3" high on the model!

G'night!

Gary


----------



## Ego1JR

OMG! Simply outstanding. And the door isn't upside down! :<) 
Is it December yet?


----------



## bert model maker

WOW, is what comes to mind when I see this. How about the floor itself, will there be a circle of the correct diameter molded in the floor or a 2 piece floor to complete the circle ?


----------



## AJ-1701

OMG!!!... STRUTH!!!... FLAMIN HECK!!!:

To be honest I was pleased about the J2 coming out of Moebius but not in the "I gotta get one now" way. However I'm gob smacked having just seen this thread :thumbsup: it has definatly put the boil on my wants now. :devil:


----------



## oshkosh619

Could someone here please help me pick my jaw up off the floor......:thumbsup:


----------



## Lloyd Collins

I had thought of not getting another J2, but Gary changed my mine!
Fantastic details!








Now to get screen grabs from Season 3.


----------



## otto

This kit blows me away. A must have for me. And I thought the PL version was "good enough" It was really, but this kit is a few steps ahead of the PL version. Quite a few steps ahead.


----------



## John P

Holeeeee POO!! 

You've made many people verrrry happy!!


----------



## Antimatter

Now *that's *what I'm talking about! WOW! :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


----------



## Y3a

Any outside photos?


----------



## robiwon

You guys are all freakin out about these pictures on the _forum_, what do you think I was doing as I stood at their table at Wonderfest?!?!? I was jumping up and down, pointing at the screen, and giggleing every time a new picture popped up! I must have looked a 60's teenager at a Beatles concert!

My question, who's doing a fusion core and how are lights in the dome going to be handled? Yeah, this is going to be great!!!!!! 

I know what Santa's bringing me this year!

Bert, how many are you buying?:wave:


----------



## Captain Han Solo

*:thumbsup:AWESOME!!!!!!*

*Thanks Gary for taking the time to post the pics..It is truly a work of art!!*

*I can safely say, as good as the Flying sub and Seaview are this model will surpass them!!!*

*Finally!!!!For this lifelong Irwin Allen, Fan A near perfect Jupiter 2!!!!*

*Many Thanks to Frank And Dave and Gary!!!!!!!!*


:hat::hat::hat:


----------



## MonsterModelMan

What size was this going to be... 1/35th scale...how big is that? I guess Dave described it as closer to 18 inches...

This looks to be an AMAZING kit...WOW! such details! Who cares that there is no lower deck...there is enough on the upper deck to keep us very happy!

Thanks Frank, Dave and the rest from Moebius!...and Gary for posting the pics for us to drool over!

MMM


----------



## LGFugate

This thread is the reason I only wear brown underwear now....

Put me down for at LEAST two!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Larry
:woohoo:


----------



## Ron Gross

"The interior reflects the 3rd season version of the upper deck set, which didn't have lighted roof beams. Deleting the roof beams saves tooling costs and provides better access to the interior, but adding scratch-built roof beams should be very straightforward."

Gary, the interior detail shots you posted are just spectacular. Relative to the above issue with the roof beams, it seems like it might be possible for the scratch builder to attach the extensions directly to to ceiling. They would still be difficult to light because of the general detachment, but this design would also maintain the desired "open" effect when the top is removed.


----------



## Antimatter

Building a false ceiling into the top of the model shouldn't be a problem. Then use the light strips that are being used on the FS-1 floor in a few models.


----------



## Antimatter

Gary K said:


> Since Frank Winspur has officially announced the Jupiter 2 model at WonderFest, I can tell you some details about the kit and show a few photos. A few factoids:
> 
> The studio set fit almost perfectly inside a 52 ft saucer, so that's what I used when I designed the model. The 1/35 scale saucer is a hair under 18" in diameter, which is the largest size that Moebius' budget could handle. (The price of tooling goes WAY up if you go any larger, and the kit would become too expensive for the mass market.)
> 
> I sent over 170 sheets of plans and more than 300 reference photos to Moebius.
> 
> Decals will be included.
> 
> I have a casting of the 4 ft hero model's hull, so I lofted its profile for the Moebius kit.
> 
> The entire upper half of the hull lifts off to reveal the interior. There's a lot of space between the interior walls and the edge of the saucer, so scratch-builders can have a field day adding the greebles & rooms we never saw.
> 
> The kit has TWO fusion cores - one with the fins extended, and one with the fins retracted.
> 
> The model has optional position landing gear, with landing gear wells, as well as outlines for the Chariot hatch and the Space Pod hatch.
> 
> The interior reflects the 3rd season version of the upper deck set, which didn't have lighted roof beams. Deleting the roof beams saves tooling costs and provides better access to the interior, but adding scratch-built roof beams should be very straightforward.
> 
> There's no lower deck, since it absolutely, positively won't fit inside the hull. Trust me!
> 
> The interior of the main airlock is represented, but Dave Metzner had to nix a sliding door for budgetary reasons, since the parts count was already way north of 200. Again, this shouldn't be hard to scratch-build, if you want.
> 
> There are a number of clear parts to facilitate lighting.
> 
> Dave and Frank allowed me to go absolutely crazy with interior detail, and the model is a near-perfect representation of the studio set. The elevator cage is a delicate work of art! I had help from several LIS experts, and I'll name names in a future article.
> 
> Here are a few early shots of the prototype model, which has undergone numerous changes since the photos were taken....
> 
> 
> An overhead view of the prototype, with the ceiling soffitt in place. The airlock floor hasn't been added yet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The astrogator (the joystick controls will be in the deployed position on the final model)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One of the flight chairs. They can rotate, like the ones on the show, so the actors can talk to one another.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The circuit board panels will be cast in clear plastic, to simplify lighting
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The elevator cage is a work of art. The clear floor panel is supported by crossed beams - just like the original
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few last words: while I was reviewing the LIS episodes on DVD, I noticed that details of the ship's interior would change seemingly from episode to episode. If the model doesn't have a certain feature you want, you can always scratchbuild the part or buy an aftermarket item. Don't criticize Dave Metzner too harshly if he didn't include every bell & whistle you wanted. Laying out all the kit's parts on a limited number of VERY expensive tools is way more complicated than I thought, and Dave did his best to provide the most bang for the buck. The J2 model ended up being far more detailed than first envisioned, and I commend Dave & Frank for allowing me to run hog wild.
> 
> That's it for now. I'll post more pics & answer questions later.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Gary


Looks like they're using the same method of pegs like the FS-1 to attach the hull halves. Makes for a good snug fit.


----------



## sapper36

Holy Crap - Usually I'm a lurker but I've been stunned into speech. I built a 16" Lunar Models years ago. Full interior with the rotating fusion core lights. Sadly it was a casualty of a nasty divorce. I won't miss it even a little bit now!


----------



## Gary K

Ron Gross said:


> Gary, the interior detail shots you posted are just spectacular. Relative to the above issue with the roof beams, it seems like it might be possible for the scratch builder to attach the extensions directly to to ceiling. They would still be difficult to light because of the general detachment, but this design would also maintain the desired "open" effect when the top is removed.


Ron - thanks for the kind words.

As you can see in the cutaway plan below, there's enough room to add a false ceiling to the model. All you'd have to do is cut a fat "C" shape out of sheet styrene, form it into a low cone, and attach ceiling beams to its underside. 

I'd also consider the option of keeping the soffitt between the wall and the ceiling removable, so you can see the inner detail better. FYI, on the Moebius kit, I've included the lighted ceiling panel in the soffit above the main airlock door, so there's something else to light up!

I'll post some additional pics of the prototype later today, after I get some work done.

Gary


----------



## Captain_April

Wow just wow!:thumbsup:


----------



## Seaview

Gary K said:


> The interior of the main airlock is represented, but Dave Metzner had to nix a sliding door for budgetary reasons, since the parts count was already way north of 200. Again, this shouldn't be hard to scratch-build, if you want.


 
Point of clarification requested; a sliding airlock door is not going to happen, and more than likely the Space Pod door and the "hallway" door aren't going to open. But what about the hull hatch itself?


----------



## thebloop

Gary: 

Thanks so much for the update of the upcoming Mobius Jupiter2 kit. Can't remember how many times I entered my e-mail address at Mobius' contact list this morning; I definitely don't want to miss out on one of these!

I never cared much for the Polar Lights kit. With its removable upper hull, seemed more like a toy. And even when opened up, detail doesn't seem convincing. At least here, all the parts shown have incredible detail. If the paints were applied, I thought it was so real that I could sit right in one of those chairs! On typical kits, usually I'd be interested only on the hull. Even on deep interior parts like the Circuit Board Panel which I had no past interest, looking at these photos made me look again. On my model, I'd still seal the upper and lower hulls, though. It turns me off to see even the slightest slit on the outside of the saucer. I'll just install real glass on all port windows. 

Two details I'm looking forward to in this kit:

1. Fusion Core Fins.

2. A turning radar inside the upper hull bubble, not just a series of sequenced LEDs. I'm sure the turning will have to be done by the model-maker, but at least if the radar part is provided, it would be a big plus. 

Very good! The 18" size is good, too. Count me in for a model, maybe two. 

Mike


----------



## Dave Metzner

No operating doors interior or exterior will be included in the kit

Dave


----------



## thebloop

Dave Metzner said:


> No operating doors interior or exterior will be included in the kit
> 
> Dave


That's why I usually buy two kits. In the event I need to destroy one to pick out a particular function like a door, I'd re-attach that door on the final product.


----------



## spocks beard

Simply AWSOME! I can't wait for this baby to be releasedI love my Polar lights J2, But will be adding this beauty to my collection as well.I'll make room for itThanks for the proto pix, & please post more as they are available.Thanks again, All at MOEBIUS!!!!!:thumbsup:


----------



## Gary K

Seaview said:


> Point of clarification requested; a sliding airlock door is not going to happen, and more than likely the Space Pod door and the "hallway" door aren't going to open. But what about the hull hatch itself?


I lobbied for a sliding hull hatch, but that fell victim to budgetary considerations, too. Only a certain number of parts can fit on a specified number of tools, and if you add an additional tool, the costs rapidly escalate beyond the budget, and the price of the already-expensive kit would increase, too. The parts layout/count is an art form, and I'm glad that it's Dave Metzner's job, not mine!

At least, a sliding door is scratch-buildable - or an enterprising aftermarket guy will probably offer one. Ditto for the rear hallway door. An operable Space Pod door is more problematic, since it would pop through the ceiling!

Gary


----------



## SFCOM1

Dave Metzner said:


> No operating doors interior or exterior will be included in the kit
> 
> Dave


That might not stop some of the more "inclined" people on this bord not to try! 

I do have to say, this is a tremendous upgrade to the PL kit issued over a decade ago (as incredible as that kit was at the time). 

I got June Lockhardt's autograph on my J2 PL model. She loved seeing it!


----------



## Trekkriffic

Seaview said:


> I thought that last years' Seaview and this years' Flying Sub were going to be "it", but this Jupiter 2 is going to be, without a doubt, the crowning touch of my model kit building "career".
> THIS is the one I've been waiting for, for the past 44 YEARS!!!
> Thank you, Gary, Frank, Dave, and everybody else involved in this MAGNIFICENT project!


Ditto. I'm farklempt.


----------



## Mark Dorais

WOW.............What amazing detail! And more gorgeous box art from Mr. Ron Gross!!Thank you Guys for making our dreams come true!


----------



## Carson Dyle

Something to be proud of, Team Moebius. :thumbsup:


----------



## Richard Baker

This is really looking fantastic - words cannot express the joy in my heart properly...

.


----------



## hedorah59

Holy Cow! If I wasn't at work I'd be squeeling like a giddy school girl! This kit is looking better and better! :woohoo:


----------



## jbond

The Flying Sub and Seaview were my dream models but this one is so amazing I can't wait to get my hands on it. Take a good look at all the room AROUND the interior set. All the staterooms and a number of other aspects of the lower level set really could be fit into this space in different configurations, with the lower level just left for machinery (although there's still obviously no room for the space pod, chariot and that weird "third level").


----------



## starseeker

What a stunning model! Just the photos posted so far look like they have been taken off the set. It's hard to believe they're unpainted and 1/35. The prototype photos of the Seaview showed some fantastic detail that was lost or incorrected by the time the model was released. I sure hope that everything that you managed to incorporate into this kit remains. I'm tempted to say that this is the model that should have been made decades ago but the technology just didn't exist to do it back then, at least not a price most modelers could afford. But the time surely has come and this does not disappoint. Wow! Worth every year of wait. Fabulous, amazing work. Obviously a labor of love. Thank you all. 
What is the release timeline?


----------



## JohnGuard

can someone tell me when we can expect to see it released and about how much would each kit cost?


----------



## Opus Penguin

I would expect around 60 -70 dollars if not more. Tentative release, I read somewhere, is this December.


----------



## Gemini1999

Oh jeez......feeling faint....must find chair....

I thought that the few pics last night were terrific, but the group of pics posted today just knocked my eyes out of my head!

As the man said, buy two! And I never buy two of the same model, ever.


----------



## Gary K

jbond said:


> The Flying Sub and Seaview were my dream models but this one is so amazing I can't wait to get my hands on it. Take a good look at all the room AROUND the interior set. All the staterooms and a number of other aspects of the lower level set really could be fit into this space in different configurations, with the lower level just left for machinery (although there's still obviously no room for the space pod, chariot and that weird "third level").


Great minds think alike!  For years, I've been mulling a more realistic Jupiter 2, somewhere in the 100-200 foot range. I'd put the living quarters & flight controls on the upper level, and all the engineering in the lower level. Legendary Star Trek designer Andrew Probert told me he likes the J2. Imagine what he could come up with for an interior!

In a new LIS TV show or movie, a larger J2 could be easily realized via CG. If only they hadn't made that awful LIS movie in 1998....

Gary


----------



## Gary K

Opus Penguin said:


> I would expect around 60 -70 dollars if not more. Tentative release, I read somewhere, is this December.


With all the plastic & detail involved, I suspect that the J2 will sell for *at least* as much as the Seaview.

Gary


----------



## Captain Han Solo

Gary K said:


> Great minds think alike!  For years, I've been mulling a more realistic Jupiter 2, somewhere in the 100-200 foot range. I'd put the living quarters & flight controls on the upper level, and all the engineering in the lower level. Legendary Star Trek designer Andrew Probert told me he likes the J2. Imagine what he could come up with for an interior!
> 
> In a new LIS TV show or movie, a larger J2 could be easily realized via CG. If only they hadn't made that awful LIS movie in 1998....
> 
> Gary


....So I guess there's no Chance oF Moebius doing a larger kit of the Movie Jupiter 2?....(runs,..for cover ducks..LOL!!!!)


----------



## Seaview

Gary K said:


> ... I'd put the living quarters & flight controls on the upper level, and all the engineering in the lower level...Gary


 
IIRC, the Gemini XII was designed in that fashion, complete with a drinking water tank and disassembled Chariot sections stowed in the lower level. It was really a very impressive, well planned design.


----------



## Captain Han Solo

Seaview said:


> IIRC, the Gemini XII was designed in that fashion, complete with a drinking water tank and disassembled Chariot sections stowed in the lower level. It was really a very impressive, well planned design.


Yep..I Agree:thumbsup:.

Lost In Space was at first a well thought out show...The designers really had some cool stuff going on..


----------



## toyroy

Y3a said:


> Any outside photos?


Me too, please!

As for all I've seen so far:  

Thanks Gary, for all the previews and info. Oh yeah, and for designing the model. :thumbsup:


----------



## Gary K

Here are a few more photos of the J2 prototype. Remember: this is merely the prototype, and it's being refined, even as we speak.

Gary


Front view of the ship, resting on its landing gear











Bottom view of the ship, with landing gear covers in place











Close-up of the fusion core, with fins retracted and landing bays open. A note about the Space Pod hatch: on the 4 ft miniature, the hatch was composed of two inflexible halves that slid apart. This was not a problem, since there was no landing gear to interfere with the sliding hatch. On the "real" ship, however, the close proximity of the rear landing gear would cause problems with an opening solid hatch. I've added additional seams that allow the hatch to roll up like a garage door (or the Flying Sub's hatch). The seams will be less prominent on the final model. 











Updated view of the floor plan, with soffit & walls removed. Notice that there are holes under the freezing tubes to facilitate lighting. The cross-beams in the base of each tube support the clear floor panel, just as in the original tubes.











The freezing tubes in position (the Chinese installed them backwards in this early photo, but they'll be correct on the final model)











Close-up of the communications station. The station originally had two round speakers, but the right one was removed in the 3rd season.











Drawing of the airlock control panel











One of many plans of the walls behind the freezing tubes


----------



## Zathros

As much as I dont prefer large scale kits..I guess I will have to purchase one of these..too good looking and accurate to pass up..

Z


----------



## Captain Han Solo

Breath taking Sir!!!

Beautiful Work!

We are indeed Fortunate as modelers to have you Guys!!!!

You an see you guys love this stuff as much(if not more?) Than Us fan/Modelers!!!


----------



## toyroy

To follow up on Berts question, will the fusion core frame be separate from the clear "panes"?


----------



## Gary K

toyroy said:


> To follow up on Berts question, will the fusion core frame be separate from the clear "panes"?


Yes, indeedy! All the panes are molded as one clear piece that fits inside the fusion core.

Gary


----------



## robiwon

I was thinking the same, probably around the $100 mark. It's larger and more involved than the Flying Sub.

I just drew an 18 inch circle on my desk.:tongue:


----------



## John P

Anybody wanna buy my old, unbuilt Polar Lights J2 kits?


----------



## Seaview

I'm gonna find a nice round coffee table, exclusively for this one!


----------



## Zathros

John P said:


> Anybody wanna buy my old, unbuilt Polar Lights J2 kits?


 
Yep...I will take them off your hands anytime..


----------



## Opus Penguin

I plan to get two of these at least!

Hey, on these pictures you ought to use the coke can method to have somehting in the foreground to show scale.


----------



## Mr. Wabac

Outstanding !

I guess I would be another who could live without another Jupiter II, quite happy with the (unbuilt) PL version. Having seen the photos of what is coming and I guess I'll have to get in line myself. Remarkable.

Having the chance to see some of the mockup and the drawings that are required for tooling I have even more of a respect for people who do this type of work and the immense amount of work required. I guess this is another business where the weight of the drawings must equal the weight of the finished product. In this case, the tooling, not the kit itself !


----------



## Y3a

Um... I looked at THIS PHOTO of the LANDING GEAR LEGS.

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv40/garykerr/Jupiter 2/Frontview.jpg


And I hope they actually fit better than the mock-up.


----------



## Lloyd Collins

I'm just thrilled with all of the detailed parts. I don't see the need for opening doors, unless......you wanted to play with it!


----------



## Dr. Brad

Well, to somebody who is not a LIS fan, that's really something! Absolutely great work!


----------



## Gary K

Y3a said:


> Um... I looked at THIS PHOTO of the LANDING GEAR LEGS.
> 
> http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv40/garykerr/Jupiter 2/Frontview.jpg
> 
> 
> And I hope they actually fit better than the mock-up.


They will be the time I'm done with them! This is just an old photo of the prototype, and we haven't even got a test shot yet.

Gary


----------



## toyroy

Gary K said:


> Yes, indeedy! All the panes are molded as one clear piece that fits inside the fusion core.


Thank you.


----------



## Y3a

So are you using gears to extend the fusion core fins, or hydraulic rams? LOL 

You ARE providing all 32 of those pesky things aren't you?

Perhaps I will re-design my PL variation of the MECHANICAL fusion core lights and Bubble "V" spinner etc. 

I'm planning to build 3 of the Jupiter 2's:

1 - fusion core fins out, no gear, lit complete interior.
2 - Fins out, Mechanical lights,scrim interior.
3 - WORKING GEAR, Fins out, Scrim Interior, mechanical lights.

Maybe I'll produce a kit?


----------



## Darkhunter

I hope someone is already working on new fusion core lighting for this bad boy!

The work on this is absolutely amazing! My biggest concern is where am I going to put this thing when built?

Thanks again for all of your hard work, cant wait!!!


----------



## Tim Nolan

Dang, talk about your Lost in Space boner! 

I keep coming back looking at these pictures (and finding more!) and I can't believe what a fantastic job has been done on this thing! I've been staring at J2 photos pasted to my bench wall for weeks while I assemble and paint the PL version, so it's in my head what this thing really looked like, and this is just so spot-on it's incredible. It's going to be a long ride until December.....ARE WE THERE YET?! :wave:


----------



## Seaview

Lloyd Collins said:


> I'm just thrilled with all of the detailed parts. I don't see the need for opening doors, unless......you wanted to play with it!


 
Or if you'd like to build a large sweeping crash site diorama, complete with ramp, hydroponic garden tables, force field generator, the Robot doing sentry duty, etc.
Don't forget that the vast majority of LIS episodes take place on planetary surfaces. :wave:


----------



## jeffking45

Greetings fellow J2 fans! I must say that i`am very happy with the detail and proportion used here . it really has that studio set feel to it. in addition i like the explanation for the detail of the space pod hatch on the lower exterior hull. Great!! job keep up the good work.


----------



## Dar

Well after looking at these photos I guess Im not getting one.:Just NOT what I expected. It did not meet my expectations. So again Im not getting one any longer. Sorry.









Im getting THREE. :tongue: EXCELLENT job Gary and Moebius. It didnt meet my expectations as i said above but defintely exceeded them.:lol: Just a great looking model.:thumbsup:


----------



## Richard Baker

Y3a said:


> So are you using gears to extend the fusion core fins, or hydraulic rams? LOL
> 
> You ARE providing all 32 of those pesky things aren't you?
> 
> Perhaps I will re-design my PL variation of the MECHANICAL fusion core lights and Bubble "V" spinner etc.
> 
> I'm planning to build 3 of the Jupiter 2's:
> 
> 1 - fusion core fins out, no gear, lit complete interior.
> 2 - Fins out, Mechanical lights,scrim interior.
> 3 - WORKING GEAR, Fins out, Scrim Interior, mechanical lights.
> 
> Maybe I'll produce a kit?


By Scrim Interior do you mean that backlit white panel with the round and straight grid on it they used in th efirst landing scenes?


----------



## Dar

^^^Yep that scrim. I bet we see a aftermarket for that as well.


----------



## flyingfrets

*THIS* is the model I've been waiting for since September 1965. As someone who struggled through 2 of Lunar's kits, even it this retails around $100, it's still only about 1/3 of what I paid for each of the Lunar versions...is 2" larger...FAR more accurate...oh yeah, and will *unquestionably* be far easier on the nerves to assemble. 

Santa's gonna need a bigger sleigh this year...

Is it too early to cast my vote for kit of the year?!!?


----------



## toyroy

Darkhunter said:


> I hope someone is already working on new fusion core lighting for this bad boy...


There are some really neat, reasonably priced solutions that have been discussed in the Moebius forum recently. Some specifically for the space pod, but others good for the J2 and G12.


----------



## toyroy

Drewid promised some figures, including a Robot, for this new kit. But no one has talked about a 1:35 chariot yet. If Tamiya made one, it'd be RC, and with a full set of figures- for about $700...


----------



## JohnGuard

if there is no lower deck, what is the lower window or frame for??

if there is no lower deck, where does the elevator go?


----------



## Seaview

Do not look for "logic" in the Irwin Allen universe. You will only drive yourself quite, quite mad.


----------



## jeffking45

Y3a said:


> Um... I looked at THIS PHOTO of the LANDING GEAR LEGS.
> 
> http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv40/garykerr/Jupiter 2/Frontview.jpg
> 
> 
> And I hope they actually fit better than the mock-up.


fit better? in what way.


----------



## jeffking45

Y3a said:


> Um... I looked at THIS PHOTO of the LANDING GEAR LEGS.
> 
> http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv40/garykerr/Jupiter 2/Frontview.jpg
> 
> 
> And I hope they actually fit better than the mock-up.


 what do you think is wrong with the fit of the gear. can you give some details on that? By the way do you know if the gear will retract ?


----------



## teslabe

Dumb question, I know these pictures are of the prototype, but will the View port window frame need to be cutout? I told you it was a dumb question.....


----------



## Moebius

December is the targeted date, but I'm hoping to see it in time to be in stores end of November. At this point, all depends on how the first set of test shots come out. Suggested retail of 109.95, it is a big kit!


----------



## Carson Dyle

So which one of you clever after-marketers is going to step up to the plate with a launch gantry display stand for this beast?


----------



## Y3a

Henry?????


----------



## spocks beard

teslabe said:


> Dumb question, I know these pictures are of the prototype, but will the View port window frame need to be cutout? I told you it was a dumb question.....


I'm sure the viewport opening will come pre cut. Not like the Lunar models vacukit.


----------



## fire91bird

See, this is why I didn't think to ask about the clear parts. Hard to talk with your jaw on the floor. 

Just outstanding.


----------



## Gary K

spocks beard said:


> I'm sure the viewport opening will come pre cut. Not like the Lunar models vacukit.


Not to worry. The model's upper hull has an opening for the cockpit windows. The upper, lower, and side window sills, along with the frames between the windows, are a separate piece that is glued into the hull opening from inside. A one-piece clear plastic window unit is attached to the inside of the window sill.

Gary


----------



## John P

JohnGuard said:


> if there is no lower deck, what is the lower window or frame for??
> 
> if there is no lower deck, where does the elevator go?


If there's no engine, why do my airplane models have propellors?


----------



## JohnGuard

John P said:


> If there's no engine, why do my airplane models have propellors?


not sure what you mean, still doesnt answer my question.


----------



## Captain Han Solo

JohnGuard said:


> if there is no lower deck, what is the lower window or frame for??
> 
> if there is no lower deck, where does the elevator go?


 
*When Irwin Allen first proposed Lost In Space, the Jupiter 2, Then Gemini 12, was a Single Level spaecraft..NO LOWER LEVEL...*

*However,when the second Pilot was filmed it was deemed necessary,To make the Renamed Jupiter Two Larger..Lower level, sleeping quarters..etc..*

*However in doing so, they did not correct the outside dimensions of the ship..*

*SO , the real Jupiter 2(If there was one) Had only room for THE UPPER DECK ONLY..Just Like the New Mobius Kit.*

*I am sure that the guys who created this stuff 40 something years ago never, never, expected a bunch of modeling nerds(me included), to be debating it....*


----------



## Richard Baker

The interior matches the filmed set which had an elevator. The lower level of the ship was filmed in a different location- the hull cannot contain the full sets as implied. The PL kit worked around this by having the lower level in a smaller scale.

I believe John P was meaning that like the elevator, the propeller implies something behind (or in the J2's case below) which does not exist. You can know it in your head there is a lower level but it is not physically part of the model kit.


----------



## Dar

beatlepaul said:


> *When Irwin Allen first proposed Lost In Space, the Jupiter 2, Then Gemini 12, was a Single Level spaecraft..NO LOWER LEVEL...*
> 
> *However,when the second Pilot was filmed it was deemed necessary,To make the Renamed Jupiter Two Larger..Lower level, sleeping quarters..etc..*
> 
> *However in doing so, they did not correct the outside dimensions of the ship..*
> 
> *SO , the real Jupiter 2(If there was one) Had only room for THE UPPER DECK ONLY..Just Like the New Mobius Kit.*
> 
> *I am sure that the guys who created this stuff 40 something years ago never, never, expected a bunch of modeling nerds(me included), to be debating it....*




Exactly.:lol: Im surprised some dont realize the scale between the set and various models were off. I still think the J2 works as TWO level ship if the interior is scaled properly. You can get a failry accurate representation of the ship as seen on tv with both levels if they are rescaled. Obviously certain items would have to be stretched on the floor plans once the details are scaled down. But it can work. Ron Gross has an excellent explanation of that on his PLJ2 accurizing article.

I have to say I really wanted a two level model at first but I have warmed to the idea of a one level and we are getting an exact replica of the upper level in the bargain. So Im a happy camper.:thumbsup: Plus I know that there will be some good photo scans of the lower level to show thru the lower window. That will definitely work for me.


----------



## Ron Gross

The article you mentioned is still on line more than a decade later, and can be found here: http://www.culttvman2.com/dnn/Featu...w/articleId/15/Ron-Grosss-Jupiter-2-Tips.aspx

Once again, I decided to do this series as a sort of fun and positive way to handle the fact that the production kit was not a completely accurate translation of my prototype. I do NOT expect to have to repeat this effort with the new Moebius kit!


----------



## Antimatter

It's the friggin motherload.


----------



## Ron Gross

Another aspect of this model that I really like is the fact that the upper hull will be in one primary piece. I understand the decision with the PL J2 to provide a removable/detachable roof for display purposes, but that is not the way I built my prototype. I always liked the idea of being able to display a sharp edge with two intersecting convex curves, which is something that hadn't been done properly until that point. This kit will provide such an opportunity, and in that respect, it will be more reminiscent of my original scratch build than the kit it actually spawned.


----------



## Antimatter

JohnGuard said:


> if there is no lower deck, what is the lower window or frame for??
> 
> if there is no lower deck, where does the elevator go?


To the cellar, where we're gonna put you.


----------



## Argonaut

The Flying Sub and Seaview brought tears of joy to these tired old eyes but
this one has my mouth hanging open...and I'm not even B]that [/B] big a 
fan of LIS!!! Moebius...I salute thee...


----------



## Dar

Ron Gross said:


> The article you mentioned is still on line more than a decade later, and can be found here: http://www.culttvman2.com/dnn/Featu...w/articleId/15/Ron-Grosss-Jupiter-2-Tips.aspx
> 
> Once again, I decided to do this series as a sort of fun and positive way to handle the fact that the production kit was not a completely accurate translation of my prototype. I do NOT expect to have to repeat this effort with the new Moebius kit!


I enjoyed reading it and still remember much of what you wrote 10 years ago. :lol: I printed out a copy to use as a guide to making mine more accurate and to this day its still sitting in my unfinished PLJ2 box.:lol: I really have to finally finish that model.


----------



## kdaracal

*Amazing!*

I never thought this day would come. I can die now. (After I build one or two...) Just slap my face and call me Lula bell!! $109.00 is a small price to pay. I figure with after market stuff $250.00? I'm getting it all, doin' my part for the economy....:wave:


----------



## Ductapeforever

It never ceases to amaze me how when offered cake, some of you just are not happy with plain frosting, you want swirls, and sprinkles, and jelly drizzle. Give the guys at Moebius a break. We're getting a large scale Jupiter 2, stop whining and be happy with what they are bringing us.


----------



## Paulbo

kdaracal said:


> I never thought this day would come. I can die now. (After I build one or two...) Just slap my face and call me Lula bell!! $109.00 is a small price to pay. I figure with after market stuff $250.00? I'm getting it all, doin' my part for the economy....:wave:


I'll do my best to help you do your part for the economy


----------



## Richard Baker

Ductapeforever said:


> It never ceases to amaze me how when offered cake, some of you just are not happy with plain frosting, you want swirls, and sprinkles, and jelly drizzle. Give the guys at Moebius a break. We're getting a large scale Jupiter 2, stop whining and be happy with what they are bringing us.


Moebius is one of the only companies I know of which actually triess to help th eaftermarket community produce matching items for th ekits to be released soon. You usually have towait months for lighting kits and photo etch to be availalbe for a new kit enhancement, now they are ready almaost as the kit begins to ship.
It works great all around- Moebius can produce a kit without all the bells and whistles to keep the cost down for the masses (some of whome could care less about lighting the subject). Aftermarket producers can supply all the enhancements they can think of- even the figures so those who want to add them can pick and choose what to get.
I don't hear any 'whining'- I hear enthusiastic planning for a great Christmas.


----------



## bert model maker

I have 2 questions, will the side porthole next to the main hatch be precut & will the floor have a circle of the correct size outlined in it so we can paint it correctly ?


----------



## Ductapeforever

Richard, I celebrate all the aftermarket goodies being planned, and I intend to purchase them all. You misunderstand with what I take issue. I was commenting on a few individuals who just are not happy with the features that are being offered. We are offered a detailed upper deck, they want a lower one, we are offered landing gear with open wells, they ask for working ones. etc. My point is to be happy with the incredible skill and insight of the fine folks at Moebius and let the aftermarket take up any slack with additional details.


----------



## Gemini1999

Moebius said:


> December is the targeted date, but I'm hoping to see it in time to be in stores end of November. At this point, all depends on how the first set of test shots come out. Suggested retail of 109.95, it is a big kit!



Wow...

I'm sure that it's worth it. I was projecting something like 80 bucks or so. It looks like I'll be selling my PL J2 to finance this purchase when it comes out.

Bryan


----------



## Gary K

model maker said:


> I have 2 questions, will the side porthole next to the main hatch be precut & will the floor have a circle of the correct size outlined in it so we can paint it correctly ?


The porthole next to the airlock will be cut out, with a clear plastic window, while the rear porthole will be molded closed (because the door to the aft compartment is molded closed). And yes, a faint engraved line will demarcate the brown & yellowish areas of the floor.

Gary


----------



## Capt. Krik

Gemini1999 said:


> Wow...
> 
> I'm sure that it's worth it. I was projecting something like 80 bucks or so. It looks like I'll be selling my PL J2 to finance this purchase when it comes out.
> 
> Bryan


Remember $109. is the suggested retail price. A lot of places will surely discount just as they did the Seaview. I wouldn't be surprised to see some retailers selling the Jupiter 2 for $79.00 to $89.00.

You just have to shop around a little for bargains. From what I've seen of the mock up photos, I think even $109 is a bargain. 

I don't think most people grasp the size of this model. Remember when a lot of people thought a 14 inch Flying Sub was not going to be very big. Then you open the box and see the size of the two hull halves. This 18 inch Jupiter 2 is going to be gigantic.


----------



## g_xii

Carson Dyle said:


> So which one of you clever after-marketers is going to step up to the plate with a launch gantry display stand for this beast?


Need you ask? Machine cut. It will be ready before the release of the model kit! And I may have found a way to keep the price down, or at least in the neighborhood of what the kit I sell for the PL is. It's already licensed and in the works!

--Henry


----------



## Gemini1999

Capt. Krik said:


> Remember $109. is the suggested retail price. A lot of places will surely discount just as they did the Seaview. I wouldn't be surprised to see some retailers selling the Jupiter 2 for $79.00 to $89.00.
> 
> You just have to shop around a little for bargains. From what I've seen of the mock up photos, I think even $109 is a bargain.
> 
> I don't think most people grasp the size of this model. Remember when a lot of people thought a 14 inch Flying Sub was not going to be very big. Then you open the box and see the size of the two hull halves. This 18 inch Jupiter 2 is going to be gigantic.


Capt -

Thanks for the advice. I do realize that some retailers do lower prices somewhat and believe me, I'm very big into shopping around when it comes to buying. I do appreciate the value and the size of the kit - it's actually, the quality and size of the new kit that pretty much tells me that I'm going to be selling the PL version anyways. I know that folks have done some terrific work with the PL kit to make it look good, but one of the best things that can be said about Moebius kits is that it takes a lot less work to produce a satisfactory result. Their kits are so well done, you could build them box stock and be perfectly happy with them. I just don't see the point in putting a lot of work into an older kit that won't produce a build that will make me happy with the result. Why settle for 2nd best when you can have the best, eh?

80-90 dollars is an excellent range for a kit this size and I'll be happy to pay it. I've just had a very tight budget this past year and it'll continue to be so for at least another year. The Moebius J2 is a must have and if my budget requires it, I'll be happy to sell off a few unbuilt kits just to get one.

Bryan


----------



## GEH737

Dear Moeibus / Frank,

In 1965 I saw a show that was amazing, and changed my perspective forever. I was Will Robinson's age, and I truly believed that I would someday be living that life - it was only a matter of time. Anything was possible as the "Space Age" was unfolding before our eyes. Time and reality marched on - and for the longest time in the 70's and 80's, I truly believed that I was only one of a few who fondly remembered that show. I'd look long and hard for any memorabila whenever I was in a toy store, thrift shop or antique store. I'd ask, and they'd always give me a strange look or shrug of the shoulders. I never had any luck, and as time continued, I found some Fanzines, "Toy Shop" and eventually, Lunar Models. Through Lunar, ICONS, numerous garage kits and others I won't mention; I was inevitably disappointed. It truly wasn't about the money - it was about recapturing a moment in time for a young boy who really thought that anything was possible - even living in space with his own robot. I was really happy with the initial Polar Lights announcement, but in the end, it wasn't the Jupiter II that I had always been hoping for. It isn't often in life you get to say; "Wow!, It's just what I've alwasys wanted!" and truly mean it. This is a journey that's taken me 44 years, and at times felt like it was never going to end the way I wanted it to. I wanted to thank you Frank. Thank you for letting me visit with that wide eyed daydreaming little boy once again. This time though, I'll bring him a gift that I know he's wanted all his life...

With my most sincere thanks, and neverending gratitude,
George Hitchins


----------



## bert model maker

Henry, I just knew you had to do a launch tower for the moebius kit, and i know how perfect it is going to be as I am looking at mine for the PL Jupiter 2.
Bert


----------



## BrianM

Thank you George, well said. This has really struck a chord with all of us children of the space age.


----------



## toyroy

g_xii said:


> ...(The Jupiter 2 launch pad kit) will be ready before the release of the model kit! And I may have found a way to keep the price down, or at least in the neighborhood of what the kit I sell for the PL is. It's already licensed and in the works...


That should be a _very_ impressive display option! :thumbsup:

I bet there will also be a market for a printed backdrop cyclorama to go with it. And, even though they can be scratchbuilt, I'm sure _some_ would welcome kits of the tracked gantry towers...


----------



## Antimatter

Y3a said:


> Um... I looked at THIS PHOTO of the LANDING GEAR LEGS.
> 
> http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv40/garykerr/Jupiter 2/Frontview.jpg
> 
> 
> And I hope they actually fit better than the mock-up.


It's a prototype for crying out loud. They were nice enough to post the pictures, so cut them some slack.


----------



## robiwon

This is a going to be a great kit, no doubt. The biggest thing for me is the nice sharp intersection where the upper an lower hulls meet. This was the biggest drawback to the PL kit in my book. This new kits edge looks great!

The Seaview, Flying Sub, and now the be all/end all Jupiter 2, what the heck can they do to top that?!?!?!?


----------



## starseeker

robiwon said:


> This is a going to be a great kit, no doubt. The biggest thing for me is the nice sharp intersection where the upper an lower hulls meet. This was the biggest drawback to the PL kit in my book. This new kits edge looks great!


The full sized Jupiter 2 had (or at least was supposed to have) an edge with a 5/8" R round. The 12"ish miniature had a very rounded edge that's visible even in poor photographs. Don't know about the 16" and 48" but from the rough handling they were expected to receive, even if they were built with F104 edges, that sharpness wouldn't have lasted long. In 1/24 scale, a 5/8" R or 1 1/4" diameter round would be .050. So take an 040 or 060 styrene tube and you'll see the rounded edge the 1/24 J2 might be expected to have.


----------



## Dar

Ductapeforever said:


> Richard, I celebrate all the aftermarket goodies being planned, and I intend to purchase them all. You misunderstand with what I take issue. I was commenting on a few individuals who just are not happy with the features that are being offered. We are offered a detailed upper deck, they want a lower one, we are offered landing gear with open wells, they ask for working ones. etc. My point is to be happy with the incredible skill and insight of the fine folks at Moebius and let the aftermarket take up any slack with additional details.



Duct, I have seen no whining in this thread. Only people asking questions of what it may have. Johnguard asked about why there is a lower window on the J2 but no lower level. He is unfamiliar that the J2 is an out of scale between the interior and exterior. It was discussed but no one whined about it not having a lower level. I myself commented that the J2 itself is capable of a lower level when rescaled but am not disappointed in it not having one. Originally before it was announced I had hoped but not any longer. :thumbsup:The wells were discussed by Y3a and again I saw no whining in this thread just discussing and asking questions on the landing gear. Someone also asked aboput sliding hatches but didnt whine. This whole thread has been a complete love fest and a joy to read actually.:wave:

Even so Im sure the people at Moebius arent that sensitive to some of the questions that people ask. Even some whining when it does happen.:lol: But this thread has been nothing but praise and happiness about the model. Even some who didnt have interest in this model are now buying it. Thats pretty much what these forums are about. Discussing and asking questions about moebius models. This thread has had been nothing but civil, happy discussing.


----------



## robiwon

starseeker said:


> The full sized Jupiter 2 had (or at least was supposed to have) an edge with a 5/8" R round. The 12"ish miniature had a very rounded edge that's visible even in poor photographs. Don't know about the 16" and 48" but from the rough handling they were expected to receive, even if they were built with F104 edges, that sharpness wouldn't have lasted long. In 1/24 scale, a 5/8" R or 1 1/4" diameter round would be .050. So take an 040 or 060 styrene tube and you'll see the rounded edge the 1/24 J2 might be expected to have.


O.K. maybe "sharp" was the wrong term to use. But it's a better joint than the PL kit where the parts came together right on the edge. 

Yep, seen no whining here, just down right sickening praise for this kit! I have never seen so many happy people before about one single model! I'll be doing at least two!:wave:


----------



## Ron Gross

Dar said:


> I have seen no whining in this thread. Only people asking questions of what it may have.


Dar, thank you for making this point. I couldn't have said it better myself. There is nothing wrong with honest, open discussion as long as civility is maintained. I have been a moderator on another forum for many years (Yahoo LIS), and so I have a good feel for personality types. I suspect that in some cases, those who bring up issues of negativity may unintentionally provide the stimulus for things to take the wrong turn.


----------



## robiwon

Well put Ron. And again, it was a pleasure meeting you at Wonderfest!


----------



## Antimatter

I'm sure most about the J-2 has been decided. Be happy Moebius is doing this kit. I would have bet the farm they wouldn't have done it. Glad I was wrong.


----------



## Y3a

The rounded edge of the 4 foot hero was easy to 'fix' on the PL J2. Some sand paper after a little file action. My 4 footer also has that rounded edge. Click on the photo to get to the biggest version of the photo.


----------



## Mark Dorais

Antimatter said:


> It's a prototype for crying out loud. They were nice enough to post the pictures, so cut them some slack.


 Everything about this wonderful model looks spot-on to the 4 ft. hero miniature except, curiously, for the landing legs........they clearly have the shape and dimensions of the full scale set's landing gear and NOT the four foot miniature's more substantial looking legs. However as you said......it's still only an early view of the prototype with these skinny legs.......All and all aside from this, a beautiful kit.....


----------



## Ron Gross

While my enthusiasm and support for this project naturally go without saying, the one fundamental area in which I found myself in disagreement did involve the landing gear. 

Mark is right in his general observation about the choice of landing gear. When I reviewed the final plans, I noticed right away that the "hero" J2 contour had been mated with the alternate gear from the full scale mock-up. Since this design is somewhat more spindly and proportioned differently overall, the result is a sort of hybrid external appearance. I really feel that the exterior should emulate the look of the hero miniature in all fundamental respects.

Now, for the good news, at least for those who share this opinion. I felt that the situation justified an effort on my part to develop plans for an alternate set of "hero" landing gear. Frank was fully aware of what I was doing, and supportive to the extent of suggesting after market possibilities. Gary also expressed support, and offered to give me more precise measurements when he received the first test shot. I can't emphasize enough that this is the ONLY fundamental area over which I expressed concern, and it should in no way detract from Gary's excellent overall design work.

Attached is a general comparative plan, with my revision on the bottom. I anticipate that the heftier nature of this "hero" design will also provide better structural support for the finished model. If, how, and when this option may be offered has yet to be determined. Thoughtful comments are, of course, welcome.


----------



## robiwon

If you do a set I would take them anyway and build one both ways. Ron, how do you think they would be made? I am assuming resin? I prefer the hero miniatures legs.


----------



## Ron Gross

First of all, I won't be doing them personally. I am content to offer the design to established, licensed after marketers, and I have already talked to a few. We have discussed all possibilities, including laser cut, and resin. It's too early to tell at this point how any aspect of this project may develop.


----------



## Gary K

Mark Dorais said:


> Everything about this wonderful model looks spot-on to the 4 ft. hero miniature except, curiously, for the landing legs........they clearly have the shape and dimensions of the full scale set's landing gear and NOT the four foot miniature's more substantial looking legs. However as you said......it's still only an early view of the prototype with these skinny legs.......All and all aside from this, a beautiful kit.....


You are correct about the landing gear being based on the full-scale landing legs. On the show, the Jupiter 2 was represented by a half dozen or more different miniatures, studio mock-ups, and blueprints, and no single Moebius model could be accurate to all of them. For example, the 10' model and the 43.5' mock-up had a Chariot ramp, but as far as I know, the 4-footer didn't. The 4-footer had only one porthole, contrasted with the rear porthole shown on the studio set, and it was positioned so high on the hull that the Robinson kids would have needed a stepladder to see out of it. The landing gear on the 4-footer, which was only seen from a distance & under dim lighting, was more robust to support the heavy model, and didn't even retract flush with the hull.

For the Moebius kit, the design intent was to start with the classic profile of the 4 ft hero model, and add the best-known features from all the versions of the J2. A "best-of" blend of all the Jupiters, if you will, rather than making a model of, say, the 4 ft model.

For the Moebius model, I based the landing gear on the full-scale landing legs (which were more clearly seen than the 4-footer's); I positioned the portholes lower on the hull, to match the studio set; I positioned the Space Pod hatch as closely as I could to a position underneath the Pod in the studio set; the airlock door is scaled to the door on the studio set, etc. I look at the Moebius model, as a starting point, and each modeler can modify the model as they want.

I guess sometime before the kit is released, I'll probably write up some kind of article explaining the design of the Moebius kit more fully.

Gary


----------



## Carson Dyle

g_xii said:


> Need you ask? Machine cut. It will be ready before the release of the model kit!


Fantastic news. Rest assured I'll be one of your first customers.


----------



## Ron Gross

I understand and respect the argument that certain aspects of the model should be reflective of close up shots from the series for the sake of familiarity. But in this case, I guess I would respectfully compare it to someone who might set out to restore a classic Rolls Royce in every detail, and then decide to substitute a different set of wheels at the last minute. The result may still be visually stunning, but perhaps less than completely faithful from a purist's perspective. I also understand that there will be some people who will not agree with me, and that's perfectly fine.

Another way of dealing with the "familiarity" issue may have been to add a few "full scale" detail enhancements, while insuring that the basic proportions of the "hero" gear remained intact. For example, in the comparative plan, you will notice that I included the flexible joint to the foot pad in lieu of the simple ball bearing that is evident on the "hero" gear. Again, please bear in mind that this single criticism is in no way intended to detract from the overall excellent design effort, which has my avid support. And for those who share my view, it should be fixable one way or another.


----------



## Y3a

Shows the soot marks NOT cleaned off on the gear. This is the point where teh gear is so close to the walls of the gear wells so they couldn't get to all the soot.

Also, the Hero DID NOT have those round shapes on the gear well sides. Both sides of the well are different.


----------



## Antimatter

I guess I have to go against my own advise about commenting. The landing legs look too thin. It throws off the whole look IMHO. Are you talking into account the full scale mock up? That thing never looked right and it was only seen twice. I'm in for a set of aftermarket.


----------



## Seaview

I'd go with whichever would be sturdier, as I've learned from my16.5" LM version. In time, I've found it to be the struts that get brittle and give out when moving the model from one spot to another, no matter how carefully you move it.
However, with the Moebius kit being a somewhat "different animal", maybe my concerns is groundless.


----------



## Ron Gross

Y3a said:


> Shows the soot marks NOT cleaned off on the gear. This is the point where teh gear is so close to the walls of the gear wells so they couldn't get to all the soot.
> 
> Also, the Hero DID NOT have those round shapes on the gear well sides. Both sides of the well are different.


You are correct on all counts, of course (as I would expect from someone who uses that avatar). But again, my concerns are in the area of basic proportions and their relationships to each other. Close-up detail enhancements that display different interpretations are not a problem for me personally. In this spirit, for example, I agree with Gary's decision to move the porthole. That is same the decision I made for my own prototype, for the exact reason he describes.


----------



## bert model maker

I hope the landing gear doesn't look to "skinny". My LM 24 inch has the beefy landing gear and looks correct.


----------



## Gary K

Seaview said:


> I'd go with whichever would be sturdier, as I've learned from my16.5" LM version. In time, I've found it to be the struts that get brittle and give out when moving the model from one spot to another, no matter how carefully you move it.


I built a relatively heavy fiberglass J2 way back in high school. I've found that most of the weight is borne by the 3 tubular struts, while the landing stairs largely function to keep the landing pads from sliding outboard and causing the ship to belly-flop onto the ground. Once we get the first test shot this fall, I'll definitely be checking the strength of the struts.

Btw, the full-scale landing gear was seen especially in the 3rd season, whenever the J2 landed on its gear (see The Phantom Family, The Great Vegatable Rebellion, The Ghost Planet, The Promised Planet, Junkyard in Space, Target Earth, etc.).

Like I said earlier, the Moebius kit is merely a starting point, and you'll be able to modify it into any variation you want.

Gary


----------



## Tim Nolan

I'm still doing the Irish Jig back in my lab. (tappity tappity tap....:woohoo
Your not just lookin' the gifthorse in the mouth, your beating the snot out of them! Stop it! :beatdeadhorse:


----------



## Captain Han Solo

Personally, I like the fact that the Gear is based off of the Full Size set:thumbsup:

After all, this model is an all around portrait of the Jupiter Two...

This isn't a model of a Model(The Four Footer), If it was, IT WOULDN'T HAVE A UPPER DECK, ONLY THE SCRIM!!!

But to each his own I guess, I think it looks cool and can appreciate the Reasoning behind doing it that way.



BP


----------



## Ductapeforever

I'm in favor of the "Best of Jupiter 2 features" Since Irwin was never consistant with anything. The design of this kit is in good hands and I trust Frank and Dave to give us the best Jupiter 2 for our money.


----------



## Ron Gross

Tim Nolan said:


> I'm still doing the Irish Jig back in my lab. (tappity tappity tap....:woohoo
> Your not just lookin' the gifthorse in the mouth, your beating the snot out of them! Stop it! :beatdeadhorse:


Hey Tim,
Take it easy. I see nothing disrespectful or even aggressive in this exchange. A healthy discussion like this should only help to promote the kit, and I'm all for that. Who knows, it might even open up an after market opportunity for someone.


----------



## Tim Nolan

Yeh, I know.....I'm not gettin' my shorts in a wad. I'm just really thrilled to this kit as it seems everyone else is! I think it's just awesome personally, and I've never been a nut for EVERY little detail. I'm a hotrodder, so I see nothing wrong in making "modifications" to any classic, be it car or spaceship! I think I spent more time analyzing Judy on the show than the J2 itself......:lol:


----------



## Captain Han Solo

Ron Gross said:


> Hey Tim,
> Take it easy. I see nothing disrespectful or even aggressive in this exchange. A healthy discussion like this should only help to promote the kit, and I'm all for that. Who knows, it might even open up an after market opportunity for someone.


I agree Sir:thumbsup:

I enjoy this particular thread.

Due to the fact that folks WHO really know what they are talking about are posting..Mr. Gross, Mr.Kerr..

Of course everyone is entitled to their own opinion, But some posts make me think the individuals making them, have never built a Plastic model in their life!(LOL)..I say this with no disrespect..
I am excited as everyone else(possibly more.LOL, I really love this stuff!), And I am sure the good folks at Moebius appreciate the enthuisasim..

But....


High Regards,
BP


----------



## Carson Dyle

Yeah, as a casual observer who plans to build his J-2 with the gear retracted I feel this discussion has proceeded in an entirely civil and completely respectful fashion. 

Although if I was Gary I probably wouldn't be able resist the urge to act all hurt and bent out of shape... you know, just for the fun of it.


----------



## Gary K

Ron Gross said:


> Hey Tim,
> Take it easy. I see nothing disrespectful or even aggressive in this exchange. A healthy discussion like this should only help to promote the kit, and I'm all for that.


Ron is right. People should save their hateful, venomous exhanges for their online disussions of the pros & cons of Abrams' Star Trek movie. 



Ron Gross said:


> Who knows, it might even open up an after market opportunity for someone.


Now that's the understatement of the day! After reviewing all those LIS DVDs, I could swear that they changed *something* in that ship in every single episode. In addition, people will need all the additional props they used on the show - badminton rackets, bowling pins & balls, artist easels, ad infinitum.

Gary


----------



## Ron Gross

Very cool, and to each his own!


----------



## Carson Dyle

Gary K said:


> Ron is right. People should save their hateful, venomous exhanges for their online disussions of the pros & cons of Abrams' Star Trek movie.


You SUCK!



BTW, I feel inclined to second those who've complimented Ron on his stellar box art. Being an art director I'm pretty picky when it comes to this sort of thing, but the art for the Moebius J-2 is just spiffy as all get-out.


----------



## toyroy

Personally, I strongly prefer the hero gear, to the mock-up gear. But, I also prefer the pad boot to the ball joint.


----------



## Ron Gross

Carson Dyle said:


> You SUCK!
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, I feel inclined to second those who've complimented Ron on his stellar box art. Being an art director I'm pretty picky when it comes to this sort of thing, but the art for the Moebius J-2 is just spiffy as all get-out.


Thanks very, very much. Believe me, it was a true labor of love.


----------



## Ron Gross

Carson Dyle said:


> Yeah, as a casual observer who plans to build his J-2 with the gear retracted I feel this discussion has proceeded in an entirely civil and completely respectful fashion.
> 
> Although if I was Gary I probably wouldn't be able resist the urge to act all hurt and bent out of shape... you know, just for the fun of it.


Gary's overall design work on this project is stellar, so there is no reason for that!


----------



## scifimodelfan

First off I am ecstatic that this model is being made. I am amazed at the detail and accuracy that is being put into it. This is deff. a dream come true for me and can not wait to get my hands on it. Second Ron your artwork is and always has been superb and eye catching. Thanks to you and to Moebius


----------



## Seaview

:thumbsup: Obviously, for ALL of us, you creators as well as us future customers, this whole project is and will be a TRUE "labor of love". :hat:


----------



## Richard Baker

I like the idea of a Jupiter 2 which relflects the best qualities of each version. They all do represent the 'Ideal' craft but each model or set has differences- it is that way with all movie/tv ships (look at the Falcon for example). We are building the perfect J2, which is not matching any specific model but the craft all were trying to depict...

.


----------



## Steve CultTVman Iverson

Ron's going to have to change the art to match the kit, right? 

I'm quite content with the compromises and rationalizations that Gary did to make this a dynamic, detailed kit. Its even better than the Seaview!

Steve


----------



## Ron Gross

Steve CultTVman Iverson said:


> Ron's going to have to change the art to match the kit, right?
> Steve


Don't count on it, troublemaker!


----------



## Steve CultTVman Iverson

Sorry Ron! I knew that would get your attention!


----------



## Mark Dorais

Antimatter said:


> I guess I have to go against my own advise about commenting. The landing legs look too thin. It throws off the whole look IMHO. Are you talking into account the full scale mock up? That thing never looked right and it was only seen twice. I'm in for a set of aftermarket.


Your comment and photos illustrate perfectly my concern:thumbsup Like most, I desire the look of 4 ft. miniature landing on the "circle" that we all loved as kids and grown-ups.:thumbsup: Still this is going to be a wonderful kit in spite of this.


----------



## jeffking45

Hello, people i must add my 2 cents in on this j2 landing gear leg issue . I agree with antimatter, and others about the legs being too thin in proportion to the ships overall look and feel, that well all know and love.In my opinion it does`nt make logical sence to base the ships design on the full scale mock up that was only seen twice on the entire 3 year run of the show, when the 4 foot miniture was used more than any other ship. Now speaking from a engineering point of view the legs on the 4 foot would be a better choice simply because of its structual stability in the real world,and in the world of fantasy. Now I must say that proposed installment of the jupiter2 will be a one of the most accurate jup`s ever built to date. A model that will finally kill the curse that has troubled this model for decades. So to the powers that be, you are on the verge of making real history by shutting down any critics, nay sayers alike. don`t cut corners on this gear thing . put any egos aside and ask the fans of the ship what they think . You wont go wrong with that . its a win,win for everybody. give it some thought.


----------



## drewid142

...another 2 cents worth... well... maybe a cent and a half. 

I actually like the spindly look of the full size set legs. I plan to build her that way. 

That said... I see the validity of the common opinions here... someone will make super after-market legs, I am sure!


----------



## RSN

WOW! I thought it was just for fun that people were nit picking the landing gear, but it is for real! The full size gear was seen, just as much as the miniature, any time they got off the Jupiter, reguardles of the full size being used. The full size had more steps than the miniature, which version scales better to fit this models needs? You want to talk out of scale, how did the Voyager land on those tiny feet on Star Trek?


----------



## Richard Baker

RSN said:


> WOW! I thought it was just for fun that people were nit picking the landing gear, but it is for real! The full size gear was seen, just as much as the miniature, any time they got off the Jupiter, reguardles of the full size being used. The full size had more steps than the miniature, which version scales better to fit this models needs? You want to talk out of scale, how did the Voyager land on those tiny feet on Star Trek?


Voyager's feet were not intended to support the eight of the vessel- some technobabble fields kept it off the ground.
I always thought th elanding gear used in the NAboo ships in the SW Prequels was absurd- they game to tiny poins of contact which would sink into any surface underneatch.
I am not too troubled with the Jupiter's landing gear- I really did not notice that big of a differnece until everybody started talking about it here.

.


----------



## Ron Gross

RSN said:


> WOW! I thought it was just for fun that people were nit picking the landing gear, but it is for real! The full size gear was seen, just as much as the miniature, any time they got off the Jupiter, reguardles of the full size being used. The full size had more steps than the miniature, which version scales better to fit this models needs? You want to talk out of scale, how did the Voyager land on those tiny feet on Star Trek?


When people talk about the full scale being seen only a couple of times, I think they are referring to the few distance shots as a direct comparison with the classic landing scene involving the hero miniature. Isolated close-up shots of the full-scale gear were rather abundant, but they displayed no real reference point with respect to the rest of the ship. This proportional relationship is what I feel is at the heart of the issue.


----------



## Y3a

I see this as an opportunity for a clever after-market product like WORKING ACCURATE landing gear. Perhaps BRASS? 2 servo's to do the footpad doors and then lower the legs. I'd pay 200 bucks for a good working set!. We can still use the feet!

I am NOT going down the road of showing all the photos that could have been for documentation and comparing them to the 18" J2s gear and then ask why they can't make it look like whatever. The GEAR has NEVER BEEN DONE CORRECTLY ON ANY JUPITER 2 Model.


----------



## Lloyd Collins

As long as the legs hold up the model, I'm happy. 

I stopped being a purist on model building. The more I wanted it to be perfect, the less models I built.

I will be happy with the BEST OF model. If I want to add any aftermarket parts, I have the choice, but is not necessary. But, I am happy to have the choice, not like when I was younger, when you had to take what was offered.


----------



## jeffking45

RSN said:


> WOW! I thought it was just for fun that people were nit picking the landing gear, but it is for real! The full size gear was seen, just as much as the miniature, any time they got off the Jupiter, reguardles of the full size being used. The full size had more steps than the miniature, which version scales better to fit this models needs? You want to talk out of scale, how did the Voyager land on those tiny feet on Star Trek?


well thats star treks problem . LIS. is ours, if one is going to do it, do it all the way or nothing. again i say let the fans choose. after all we are the ones thats going to buy it.


----------



## Ron Gross

Y3a said:


> I see this as an opportunity for a clever after-market product like WORKING ACCURATE landing gear. Perhaps BRASS? 2 servo's to do the footpad doors and then lower the legs. I'd pay 200 bucks for a good working set!. We can still use the feet!
> 
> I am NOT going down the road of showing all the photos that could have been for documentation and comparing them to the 18" J2s gear and then ask why they can't make it look like whatever. The GEAR has NEVER BEEN DONE CORRECTLY ON ANY JUPITER 2 Model.


I regret to say that creating a retractable landing gear feature while retaining the true "hero" gear proportions would be difficult, at best. The reason is that the original four foot hero miniature contained only an isolated enclosed area around the viewport to create the suggestion of a full interior. Without a fully established floor to separate the "decks," all of the remaining interior space was available to house whatever mechanism was deemed necessary for the landing gear. See the attached image from the "Jupiter 2 Autopsy" video.

As you can see in another attached image, I have attempted to illustrate the motion of a hypothetical retractable feature for the "hero" landing gear with the floor in place. The fact is that there is simply not enough room available to allow for all of the necessary parts. The problem is exacerbated by the new, shallower profile of the lower deck as revealed by Gary's recent scan of the hero J2 copy. There may still exist a possibility for the floor to be opened/modified behind the bulkhead walls to create a workable accommodation, but this is something I have not yet fully explored.

The bottom line is that those who opt for a "hero" landing gear option would most likely do so for the sake of visual impact, with the goal of recreating the overall illusion of the classic stock footage landing scene. This approach, in my opinion, would also result in the best structural support for the model itself. Those who insist on a retractable feature may find that staying with the original "full scale" gear design is the easiest solution. I have not worked out the general mechanics to see if there would be enough space available in this case, but it looks encouraging.


----------



## RSN

jeffking45 said:


> well thats star treks problem . LIS. is ours, if one is going to do it, do it all the way or nothing. again i say let the fans choose. after all we are the ones thats going to buy it.


I think, from what I have heard, that they are just about past the "point of no return" on the design and tooling. Frank and Dave and all rest have not let us down up to now, and they have all my confidence that they will make the choices that work best for all! It looks great to me, and I have been scratch building this sucker for over 35 years!


----------



## Gary K

Some people prefer the 4-footer's gear, while others prefer the full-scale gear, but since you can install whichever version you prefer, I don't see a problem. Something about the prototype's gear looked a little off to me. Can we postpone this discussion about the landing gear until I get a test shot and get a chance to measure the gear, to make sure that the Chinese built it correctly?

Gary


----------



## Ron Gross

I'm perfectly happy to let the after marketers go after it.


----------



## jeffking45

well if they are past the point of no return then i ask those that are able to start now on the 4 foot version landing gear,and foot pad parts. that way when this kit is ready for our consumption the gear will be also.


----------



## Ron Gross

Sorry, Gary, I meant that last post to be a response to RSN.


----------



## Y3a

Since I have already built ONE SET OF WORKING GEAR for my 2 foot Lunar Models Jupiter 2, i already know waaaaay too much about how it works, and what MUST be correct so that you don't snag or break something. I built the gear to actually support the model, which had a butt load of batteries, servo's and the mechanical fusion core/spinning "V" mechanics. Repeatable precision is required for the pivot points so the gear legs ALL work the same. Working gear REQUIRES the scrim interior so you have the area for clearances.


----------



## mrdean

Gary K said:


> Can we postpone this discussion about the landing gear until I get a test shot and get a chance to measure the gear, to make sure that the Chinese built it correctly?
> 
> Gary


Great idea!

Mark D:tongue:


----------



## moebiusman

Just awsome!!! I am so happy to see the pic's of it , coz now I know
its really gonna happen.and oh boy am I looking forward to adding
this beauty to my moebius collection.. 

Thank You, Thank, You, Thank You!!!


----------



## Y3a

Here is a more accurate look at the Hero Gear Clearance:


----------



## spindrift

Did I miss this??- are there going to be decals for the interior section markings??
Thanks, Gary:wave:


----------



## starseeker

My 24" Jupiter 2 weighs just an ounce or two under 15 pounds. The retractable landing gear/stairs are made out of 040 styrene. The retractable landing gear supports virtually none of the weight of the model but acts as little more than a chain does to keep the legs of an inexpensive tripod from spreading too far. As with a tripod, all of the weight is born by the struts. Mine are .25" od brass tube for the fat bottoms and .020 brass tube that fits inside for the skinnier tops. The ball joint and landing feet also have to be pretty sturdy. The on ly design concern with the landing gear/stairs is the hinge. You want to make sure that it's strong enough to withstand at least a little torque but we're not talking about any heavy duty joint. 
The two versions of the landing gear profile posted somewhere above are interesting. Enlarging the blueprint of the landing gear for full size mockup repro-ed in LIS Tech Manual shows a profile part way between the two posted above, maybe 75% closer to the larger landing gear diagram.
In both those profiles posted above, the feet look awfully small. I thought the footprint was almost exactly the same size as the hull opening they fit into. 
I got well scorched for suggesting in a thread where I posted my 1/24 J2 plans that you had to change the profile of the upper deck slightly if you wanted to fit a scale upper deck interior plus retractable landing gear into the same model. But if you try to fit (in my case) a 1/24 interior into as close as you can make to a 1/24 diameter hull, you cannot have retractable landing gear. For the gear to fold in and the shallowest mechanism to make it fold, the floor of the upper deck needs to be awfully close to the center line between the upper and lower decks. You can use a dummy upper deck like one of the miniatures but I don't think too many Moebius customers are going to want to toss all that gorgeous detail into the spares box. Up or down are the only other alternatives.


----------



## bert model maker

mrdean said:


> Great idea!
> 
> Mark D:tongue:


I agree, they may have made them a little too skinny looking & out of porportion to the rest of the ship.


----------



## m jamieson

I was wondering if there is somewhere to purchase a print of Ron's beautiful J2 art-work?


----------



## Ron Gross

One last thought about structural support. If the gear is installed to allow any motion at all, I would agree that the strut would bear most of the weight. But if stationary legs are built that utilize the inner vertical wall as connection points, quite a bit of contact area would be gained. Please take a look at the new highlighted version of my earlier graphic. I would have a hard time believing that this arrangement would not enhance the overall support of the model.


----------



## Ron Gross

m jamieson said:


> I was wondering if there is somewhere to purchase a print of Ron's beautiful J2 art-work?


Thank you very much for the kind comments. Hopefully at some point it will be offered as a poster like the Seaview print that was available at last week's Wonderfest.


----------



## flyingfrets

My point of view is that I'd be far more picky about minor "inaccuracies" if we were talking about a model of a Saturn V, a Japanese Zero, a championship winning F1 car or any host of other subjects based on an absolute: reality.

Since Irwin Allen wasn't too concerned with scale, proportion or consistency, then I'm not either. This is THE best representation of our beloved Jupiter 2 we're ever likely to see (in styrene no less!), and I 100% support the "best of" approach.

I know I wouldn't have complained about the legs from the full scale set being on this model when I was 5 and I'm not about to now! 

Kudos to Frank, Gary, Ron and Dave! :woohoo:


----------



## Prince of Styrene II

otto said:


> This kit blows me away. A must have for me. And I thought the PL version was "good enough" It was really, but this kit is a few steps ahead of the PL version. Quite a few steps ahead.


A few?? Quite a few??? Leaps & bounds, man!! Leaps & bounds!!! I too thought that my PL J2 was a hefty kit with nice detail. fact is that I was thinking just the week before WF taht I might finally try tackling it. Now I think I'll have to wait for this beauty!! I think what sells the kit & is the most fabulous pic is Dave huddled over & assembling the test shots. Even in that long shot, you can see the beauty of the detail. I am so thankful that this incredible Moebius team is assembled, though my wallet hates you. 



Is it legal to marry a model kit?


----------



## JohnGuard

I Cant Wait Till The End Of The Year For This!!!!!!!!!!

I Want It Right Now!!!

Pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Carson Dyle

Me, I'm in no hurry. A December release date should give me _just_ enough time to wrap up my Flying Sub build -- and I haven't even started work on my Chariot or Space Pod.

So many Moebius kits, so little time...


----------



## Gary K

spindrift said:


> Did I miss this??- are there going to be decals for the interior section markings??
> Thanks, Gary:wave:


I'm working on decals for the radar screens, circuit board details, astrogator, and various other graphics. The only question is, can these tiny decals be printed at high enough resolutions? Here are a few samples. As a reference, the GENERAL ALARM decal is just over a half-inch long.

Gary


----------



## Zathros

kdaracal said:


> I never thought this day would come. I can die now. (After I build one or two...) Just slap my face and call me Lula bell!! $109.00 is a small price to pay. I figure with after market stuff $250.00? I'm getting it all, doin' my part for the economy....:wave:


 
$109.00..???


----------



## teslabe

Zathros said:


> $109.00..???


I bet the real street price will be less then that, but even $109.00 is a fair
price for a kit this nice...... There are about 200 pieces to this monster.....


----------



## Gemini1999

Wow...

All this discussion about the landing gear... It's been very enlightening. I do agree that the relatively squat proportions of the hero landing gear have the right look to them. When I saw the pic of the prototype, I thought that something looked a bit slender, but the only thing than jumped out at me was the size of the landing pads - they just looked really tiny.

Regardless, it appears that nearly 95% of the kit looks right. So, if it's past the point of no return and the landing gear isn't perfect, then that's a "flaw" I can live with. It looks a hell of a lot better than the gear provided with the PL version.

Bryan


----------



## gojira61

Gary K said:


> I'm working on decals for the radar screens, circuit board details, astrogator, and various other graphics. The only question is, can these tiny decals be printed at high enough resolutions? Here are a few samples. As a reference, the GENERAL ALARM decal is just over a half-inch long.
> 
> Gary


I would think so Gary, I made some decals for my Moebius Seaview on my own and did them to size at 600 dpi in Photoshop, if your using a vector program like Illustrator even better. Just printing them on a home printer they came out great, yours should look very nice production printed.

Jim


----------



## jaws62666

Henry are you supplying the decals for this kit , or are you selling them aftermarket.


----------



## Paulbo

As he noted, Gary K is designing the kit supplied decals. They are amazingly comprehensive (and being by Gary, amazingly accurate) and obviate the need for any aftermarket decals.


----------



## starseeker

This is the "miniature" landing gear drawing from above (red) superimposed over the blueprint for the full scale mock up. The two are awfully close, much closer than the drawing posted above for the full scale mock up. Just slightly narrower at the hull end and tapering a bit more at the foot end. The major difference in both drawings compared to the full size and the 48" is the teeny tiny foot.


----------



## Carson Dyle

Paulbo said:


> As he noted, Gary K is designing the kit supplied decals.


I think there may be a bit of confusion as to whether the decals Gary is working up will be provided with the kit, or made available as an aftermarket option.


----------



## Gary K

Carson Dyle said:


> I think there may be a bit of confusion as to whether the decals Gary is working up will be provided with the kit, or made available as an aftermarket option.


They'll be supplied with the kit.

Gary


----------



## Ron Gross

Carson Dyle said:


> I think there may be a bit of confusion as to whether the decals Gary is working up will be provided with the kit, or made available as an aftermarket option.


They look great to me regardless.


----------



## Carson Dyle

Gary K said:


> They'll be supplied with the kit.


:thumbsup:


----------



## teslabe

Gemini1999 said:


> Wow...
> 
> All this discussion about the landing gear... It's been very enlightening. I do agree that the relatively squat proportions of the hero landing gear have the right look to them. When I saw the pic of the prototype, I thought that something looked a bit slender, but the only thing than jumped out at me was the size of the landing pads - they just looked really tiny.
> 
> Regardless, it appears that nearly 95% of the kit looks right. So, if it's past the point of no return and the landing gear isn't perfect, then that's a "flaw" I can live with. It looks a hell of a lot better than the gear provided with the PL version.
> 
> Bryan


When looking at the right front gear alone, it looks fine.....When looking at the left and right, I think it's the camera's placement that makes the mind
see them both as small, it's an illusion caused by the fact that the left gear
is further back. JMHO as a photographer.......

P.S. I'm talking about the picture of the prototype.... Too me they look fine.......:thumbsup:


----------



## teslabe

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Losti...?mode=tn&order=time&start=1&count=20&dir=desc

Has anyone posted this link??? More pictures......


----------



## Antimatter

teslabe said:


> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Losti...?mode=tn&order=time&start=1&count=20&dir=desc
> 
> Has anyone posted this link??? More pictures......


Not everyone is a member of Yahoo.


----------



## Richard Baker

teslabe said:


> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Losti...?mode=tn&order=time&start=1&count=20&dir=desc
> 
> Has anyone posted this link??? More pictures......


The link won't let me in without a yahoo account.

I tried yahoo groups before and while I just wanted to look at some specific things it keep funnelling me into this big bonding mess- I gave up and don't want to (or need to) go there again...


----------



## Gary K

teslabe said:


> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Losti...?mode=tn&order=time&start=1&count=20&dir=desc
> 
> Has anyone posted this link??? More pictures......


These are primarily photos of the prototype in China. Take what you see with a grain of salt, since these are early photos, and nearly everything has been changed for the better.

These photos were posted by Bill Hedges, Grand Master of the LIS props group on Yahoo. Bill has been an invaluable help in locating a ton of obscure reference material that I used to draw the J2 plans.

Gary


----------



## Antimatter

Well, I guess it's too late, but putting the full size gear on the 4 foot hero just makes no sense to me and it seems that since Ron knows what he's talking about, someone should have listened to him. I don't mean to complain, but the landing gear made the 4 foot hero, as it landed, look cool. The full size ship was ridiculous in size, shape and never impressed me even as a kid. By the way, I was just as bummed about the bench seats in the PL J-2 and I said as much when it came out.


----------



## teslabe

Gary K said:


> These are primarily photos of the prototype in China. Take what you see with a grain of salt, since these are early photos, and nearly everything has been changed for the better.
> 
> These photos were posted by Bill Hedges, Grand Master of the LIS props group on Yahoo. Bill has been an invaluable help in locating a ton of obscure reference material that I used to draw the J2 plans.
> 
> Gary


OMG, I'm sorry if I did something I should not have done......:drunk:
I just love anything I can get on this kit, and can get out of control
with any new pictures I find.......


----------



## Dar

Antimatter said:


> Well, I guess it's too late, but putting the full size gear on the 4 foot hero just makes no sense to me and it seems that since Ron knows what he's talking about, someone should have listened to him. I don't mean to complain, but the landing gear made the 4 foot hero, as it landed, look cool. The full size ship was ridiculous in size, shape and never impressed me even as a kid. By the way, I was just as bummed about the bench seats in the PL J-2 and I said as much when it came out.


I really dont see it as a big deal. There will be legs to correct it.:thumbsup: Yes you will have to spend a little more money but it is worth it. This kit just has to much going for it. Its not a deal breaker with me. Im still getting three of them.:thumbsup:


----------



## Ron Gross

Dar said:


> I really dont see it as a big deal. There will be legs to correct it.:thumbsup: Yes you will have to spend a little more money but it is worth it. This kit just has to much going for it. Its not a deal breaker with me. Im still getting three of them.:thumbsup:


Agreed. The last thing I wanted to see in presenting this option/opinion was for it to be a "deal breaker" for anyone. I intend to vigorously support this kit in every possible way, and I'll bet that others who have agreed with me here feel the same way. If for some unexpected reason the "hero" gear option is not offered as an after market product, I'll just scratch build my own. It's not like I haven't done it before! I'm probably a little out of practice, but I think I should still be able to handle it! 
Ron G.


----------



## g_xii

jaws62666 said:


> Henry are you supplying the decals for this kit , or are you selling them aftermarket.


Of course I'll be doing decals! I can't wait to start on them. Contrary to another's opinion, choice is always a good thing. Look at the variety of decals you can get for any Trek starship out there! All subtly different, all unique, and there are some people who prefer specific styles. My decals will not obviate the need for my aftermarket decal set, IMHO. Plus, you'll get that nice vinyl circle so you don't have to mask off the flight deck floor!

In the end, buy or not -- the consumer is the one that decides. As they decide on quality as well.

--Henry


----------



## Gary K

teslabe said:


> OMG, I'm sorry if I did something I should not have done......:drunk:
> I just love anything I can get on this kit, and can get out of control
> with any new pictures I find.......


No, you didn't do anything wrong. These pics were on Moebius' rotating display at WonderFest, and Bill posted the pics online so more people could see them. I just wanted to point out that people shouldn't get bent out of shape if they see something wrong, since these are old pics & many of the mistakes have already been corrected.

Gary


----------



## bert model maker

I belong to that yahoo group.
Bert
henry, you got mail


----------



## Gary K

Last night, I talked to David Heilman, the gentleman on the left in photo below, who's inspecting the Jupiter 2 hero model, along with Al Zequeira & Scott Brodeen. Among other things, Dave told me:

The outer edge of the hero model was not rounded. It was pretty sharp, and would be even sharper at 1/35 scale.

The J2's landing gear could not support the model. When they filmed the landing sequences, they simply lowered the model on cables and stopped when the footpads touched the ground.

The airlock hatch could be opened.

Gary


----------



## Ron Gross

Gary,
Very cool photo and insights. Thanks for sharing.

I always wondered if the hero miniature even contained an airlock hatch, because you really can't see it on film/video. Was it always there, or was it perhaps added later as part of an elaborate restoration effort?


----------



## Y3a

Gary K said:


> Last night, I talked to David Heilman, the gentleman on the left in photo below, who's inspecting the Jupiter 2 hero model, along with Al Zequeira & Scott Brodeen. Among other things, Dave told me:
> 
> The outer edge of the hero model was not rounded. It was pretty sharp, and would be even sharper at 1/35 scale.
> 
> The J2's landing gear could not support the model. When they filmed the landing sequences, they simply lowered the model on cables and stopped when the footpads touched the ground.
> 
> The airlock hatch could be opened.
> 
> Gary



Interesting. In the SPFX collection on Lost in Space Forever, there is a shot where the J2 does pick itself off the ground with the gear. Secondly, in the Jupiter 2 Autopsy DVD there is no airlock/door on the SPFX model. Inside is the gear well/framework.


----------



## gojira61

Gary K said:


> The airlock hatch could be opened.


I wish I still had the photos but I had shots of the Jupiter 2 model from the photo shoot above that were sent to me by someone I knew at Icons while the model was there.

I can tell you 100% there was no hatch near the porthole or airlock controls for that matter on the hull at that time.

What's been done to this Jupiter 2 since? Who knows?


----------



## Lou Dalmaso

the "take off" footage could easily been landing footage run backwards.

did you check to see if the lights were running in the correct direction?


----------



## Gary K

Lou Dalmaso said:


> the "take off" footage could easily been landing footage run backwards.
> 
> did you check to see if the lights were running in the correct direction?


Another possibility is that they lowered the model until the footpads touched the ground, then filmed additional footage as they raised the model back into the air.

The hero model apparently had an opening hatch by the time it was at Icons. I'll ask my friend more about it this weekend.

Gary


----------



## Antimatter

gojira61 said:


> I wish I still had the photos but I had shots of the Jupiter 2 model from the photo shoot above that were sent to me by someone I knew at Icons while the model was there.
> 
> I can tell you 100% there was no hatch near the porthole or airlock controls for that matter on the hull at that time.
> 
> What's been done to this Jupiter 2 since? Who knows?


It's been established that the J-2 in some space shots had no hatch.


----------



## RSN

I know the FX footage of the take-off that is being referred to. It is a take-off, not a landing in reverse. Watch as the clap board is struck, the Jupiter is pulled up on the wires, like a marionette, positioned in the landed manner we know, then "lifted off". It is still impressive to watch in a time of computer generated everything.


----------



## toyroy

Antimatter said:


> Not everyone is a member of Yahoo.


Well _I_ am, avatar-twin. What is this, the Patty Duke Show? How many Bill the Cats do we have here? :devil:


----------



## Antimatter

As cheesee as Irwin Allen was, the FX shots were alway's first rate.


----------



## Y3a

The smoke under the model was going in the right direction! LOL But you can see the model pick itself up, THEN the wires tighten up and the model is lifted off the set.


----------



## Antimatter

toyroy said:


> Well _I_ am, avatar-twin. What is this, the Patty Duke Show? How many Bill the Cats do we have here? :devil:


Just call me Opus now.


----------



## gojira61

Hi Gary,

I’ll be interested in hearing what he has to say on the hatch. There are more photos from that shoot at Icons in Sci-Fi & Fantasy Models issue #29 along with an article by Jim Key who was doing the prototype for Icons at that time.

They do make mention that the NGS scanner porthole does open in the article

BTW - Thanks for all your hard work on this kit, as one of the folks that paid for a Jupiter 2 from Icons and never to see it come to light the Moebius kit will be the end of a long road for me.


----------



## John P

Y'all could throw in a 1/35 scale robot, maybe?


----------



## djnick66

Yes in the minimum please include a robot. I would really like even some basic figures as they are IMHO as important as the ship itself and the model is lacking without them.


----------



## Antimatter

John P said:


> Y'all could throw in a 1/35 scale robot, maybe?


Throw in some different landing legs too.


----------



## Ron Gross

Antimatter said:


> Throw in some different landing legs too.


I didn't expect yesterday's exchange to become quite so impassioned, and I'm not sure I have the energy to participate in something like that again. So let me just sum up my overall sentiments with the following thoughts.

Gary has explained quite eloquently that his goal was to create a "best of" portrait of the J2 by combining recognizable elements from various versions, and I do find merit in that general theory. However, in this case, I would respectfully suggest that the mere gesture of mating the "hero" contour with a fully articulated upper deck interior is more than sufficient to satisfy that criteria.

In all cases that I can think of, Irwin Allen miniatures were utilized as opportunities to create more elegant statements that their full scale counterparts couldn't quite meet. The Spindrift immediately comes to mind as another example. With respect to the J2, the more graceful hull contour of the hero miniature is only fully validated when it is mated with the other exterior proportions for which it was originally designed and intended.

This is the underlying reason why I felt is was necessary to offer up the idea for a "hero" landing gear option, and I hope that it is accepted in the spirit intended. And for the last time, I give Gary's efforts a HUGE thumbs up overall.
Ron G.


----------



## toyroy

Antimatter said:


> Just call me Opus now.


Thanks, Antimatter.  

Unfortunately, the problem is systemic. _Hank_. :wave:


----------



## Dave Metzner

Oh yeah, sure, just throw in the Robot and throw in additonal landing gear - throw this feature in, and throw that feature in and before long you'll have a $220.00 kit instead of a $110.00 kit!
The kit will not include figures, it will not include optional landing gear, it does not include operating doors and operating landing gear nor does it include the Robot. It does not include these features because added features add to the parts count and adding to the parts count adds to the tooling costs and unit cost for the finished product! 
The kit as it is now, already has over 220 parts! 
There are limits to the budget available for tooling this thing!

There are a number of aftermarket guys out there that will fulfill some, if not all of these wishes. I'm sure so those of you who want all the whistles and bells and don't mind paying for them can have them while we can still produce a kit, without every concievable goodie, at a reasonable cost for those who can live without all the extras...

Dave


----------



## Captain Han Solo

Dave Metzner said:


> Oh yeah, sure, just throw in the Robot and throw in additonal landing gear - throw this feature in, and throw that feature in and before long you'll have a $220.00 kit instead of a $110.00 kit!
> The kit will not include figures, it will not include optional landing gear, it does not include operating doors and operating landing gear nor does it include the Robot. It does not include these features because added features add to the parts count and adding to the parts count adds to the tooling costs and unit cost for the finished product!
> The kit as it is now, already has over 220 parts!
> There are limits to the budget available for tooling this thing!
> 
> There are a number of aftermarket guys out there that will fulfill some, if not all of these wishes. I'm sure so those of you who want all the whistles and bells and don't mind paying for them can have them while we can still produce a kit, without every concievable goodie, at a reasonable cost for those who can live without all the extras...
> 
> Dave


 

*THANK YOU!:thumbsup:*


----------



## m jamieson

I think it has been covered that the kit is at the limit of its complexity, size and price with 200 some parts to provide the most detailed J2 yet! To just ask Moebius to just "throw in figures like the robot and different landing legs like they can be pulled out of thin air and actually have this kit see the light of day this year is I think asking a bit much at this point. I mean really, where would it end..a 1/35 chariot, a pod, a campsite, a fully articulated Bloop..complete with resin Bloop droppings? I think this is where the fun and individuality and challenge of scratch building and the personal modifications will make each 'J2' a reflection all of our ' ideal memories'. Besides I'm sure all the aftermarket people are chomping at the bit to start coming up with all these items..who knows maybe someone will even produce a Gemini 12 lower hull? To me these possibilities seem just as exciting...just to see what a lot of creative people can come up with!


----------



## Gemini1999

RSN said:


> I know the FX footage of the take-off that is being referred to. It is a take-off, not a landing in reverse. Watch as the clap board is struck, the Jupiter is pulled up on the wires, like a marionette, positioned in the landed manner we know, then "lifted off". It is still impressive to watch in a time of computer generated everything.



One way to tell is the footage is reversed for some shots is to watch the direction of the fusion core lights. I think that they moved from left to right in most shots.

Bryan


----------



## Y3a

All 3 roof hatches slid open - probably to 'unhang' the gear. heres a photo of inside the top from the famous J2Autopsy DVD.



Finally, a composite photo of the J2 Hero showing it as transparent. The top photo was flipped so it matches the rest. The bottom is also from the J2 Autopsy, along with images of my 4 foot pull.


----------



## Y3a

I think the kit looks WONDERFUL! I don't intend to build more than ONE with gear. The other 2 will be flying and be supported by thin wire from the ceiling. One will be built with the 'set interior' the other, with the scrim. I couldn't ask for anything else. I'm more of a fan of the Fox SPFX than I am of the moronic plots and such from LIS. (Sorry) I will make the scrim version with the same scruffy appearance as the Hero did in Year 3 after all the beatings it took. I can't think of anything I'd add to the kit. 

YES! I AM gonna putty over the airlock.


----------



## toyroy

Ron Gross said:


> I didn't expect yesterday's exchange to become quite so impassioned, and I'm not sure I have the energy to participate in something like that again...And for the last time, I give Gary's efforts a HUGE thumbs up overall.
> Ron G.


Ron, I don't think the criticism is directed at Gary. Many of us here are the most passionate of the passionate about the Jupiter 2. My sense is that Moebius took into account some of what was said previously, when they designed this model. But they weren't as open as they might have been, when it came down to some important nuts-and-bolts questions of design, e.g., the landing gear. If they had been, we certainly would've helped them.


----------



## Kevin Read

I am extremely happy with what will be offered in this model kit as it is, and can't hardly wait for it to become available. With that being said, it is right at the top of my budget of what I can afford which kinda stinks for me as I would have liked to modify at least three to four into different versions of the J2, such as the G12. I would be overwhelmingly happy if it were possible to offer this model with the option of purchasing it without the interior to cut down on the cost, as I would definitely purchase three or four that way not to mention one with a full interior. This is not so much a request as it is wishful thinking on my part. 

Thank You Moebius for what you are giving us.


----------



## Carson Dyle

Y3a said:


> ...you can see the model pick itself up, THEN the wires tighten up and the model is lifted off the set.


I may be misconstruing your intention here, but are you suggesting the motorized landing legs lifted the model off the ground without any aid from the marionette-style support wiring?


----------



## m jamieson

That would require some serious torque..and looking at the photos of the autopsy gear...I don't think they could handle it!


----------



## Ron Gross

Carson Dyle said:


> I may be misconstruing your intention here, but are you suggesting the motorized landing legs lifted the model off the ground without any aid from the marionette-style support wiring?


I always thought that this was the impression that they wanted to convey (such as in the lift-off scene of the season 2 opener), but I have to wonder if the motor strength was really sufficient to actually do it physically.


----------



## Captain Han Solo

toyroy said:


> Ron, I don't think the criticism is directed at Gary. Many of us here are the most passionate of the passionate about the Jupiter 2. My sense is that Moebius took into account some of what was said previously, when they designed this model. But they weren't as open as they might have been, when it came down to some important nuts-and-bolts questions of design, e.g., the landing gear. If they had been, we certainly would've helped them.


 
WHAT????

Thank God Moebius has been doing things the way they have.

_"YOU GIVE THEM THE WORLD AND THEY ASK FOR THE MOON".._

I have never heard of a Model Kit Company(With the exeption of Polar Lights/Rond 2), Actually communicating with the fans, Like Dave and Frank.

Remember the old days? The only time you knew of a New kit was when it was in the Hobby Shops!!!!

I give these guys a lot of credit, I have a LOT of Patience, But I don't think I _c_ould deal with the same..*I would like this..Please include that..Make the Panels Clear.......OPEN MY BOX FOR ME..Build my model for me..!!!!!!!!Jeeeez*

*Are any of you guys actually going to build this thing when it comes out?(LOL)!!!*


----------



## m jamieson

I can only guess at what a 4 foot fiberglass J2 filled with motors lights and motorcycle batteries would actually weigh..I'm certain the boom that actually flew the Jupiter 2 had some major counter-balance on the end of it. Now if the gear had been actually hydraulic instead of sheet metal and electric....


----------



## Carson Dyle

Ron Gross said:


> I always thought that this was the impression that they wanted to convey (such as in the lift-off scene of the season 2 opener), but I have to wonder if the motor strength was really sufficient to actually do it physically.


Yeah, I'm not questioning the intended visual impression. My issue is with the notion that the effect was accomplished solely via the landing legs in conjunction with some sort of internal motor. Suffice it to say I'd be very surprised if such was the case.

Not that any of this has a damned thing to do with Moebius' astonishingly well designed and engineered model kit. 

Speaking of which, this may be one model I'm going to have to wire for sound (I've always thought the J-2's engine whir was an integral part of its on-air personality). Any of you electronics geniuses planning an aftermarket sound chip?


----------



## JohnGuard

i love the J-2 engine sound!!!!!!

where do you think it came from?


----------



## gojira61

Carson Dyle said:


> Speaking of which, this may be one model I'm going to have to wire for sound (I've always thought the J-2's engine whir was an integral part of its on-air personality). Any of you electronics geniuses planning an aftermarket sound chip?


Couldn't agree more! :thumbsup:


----------



## Ron Gross

beatlepaul said:


> WHAT????
> 
> Thank God Moebius has been doing things the way they have.
> 
> _"YOU GIVE THEM THE WORLD AND THEY ASK FOR THE MOON".._
> 
> I have never heard of a Model Kit Company(With the exeption of Polar Lights/Rond 2), Actually communicating with the fans, Like Dave and Frank.
> 
> Remember the old days? The only time you knew of a New kit was when it was in the Hobby Shops!!!!
> 
> I give these guys a lot of credit, I have a LOT of Patience, But I don't think I _c_ould deal with the same..*I would like this..Please inlude that..Make the Panels Clear.......OPEN MY BOX FOR ME..Build my model for me..!!!!!!!!Jeeeez*
> 
> *Are any of you guys actually going to build this thing when it omes out?(LOL)!!!*


Then again, these forums are a valuable tool for any smart business man, and Frank certainly fits that description. This is a very different world in terms of communication than even a decade ago, and if I were running the show, I would want to have access to as much information as possible. That's why I didn't hesitate to spout off a little yesterday (even though I'm a pseudo insider), because I feel that nothing but positive product promotion can come of it. If one or the other moderators becomes irked about certain requests, they always have the choice not to answer.


----------



## m jamieson

It was a pretty popular sound effect for fox!..Probably still in their library, I've heard it in quite a few tv shows and films that have some reactor,computer,engine,or margarita blender powering up! lol


----------



## toyroy

JohnGuard said:


> i love the J-2 engine sound!!!!!!...


Totally Ditto! :thumbsup:


----------



## Antimatter

I'm buying 2 kits. One to build and one to save. I'll just wait to build when someone comes up with replacement gears.


----------



## m jamieson

I would put an Mp3 player in there with not only the sounds of the engine whine powering up but add a second track with Smith whining "Take me back to EARTH...I want to go back to earth!!"


----------



## falcondesigns

hey dave,you think before you go into production,you can add a toliet to the cabin,thank,superstuntguy


----------



## Antimatter

toyroy said:


> Thanks, Antimatter.
> 
> Unfortunately, the problem is systemic. _Hank_. :wave:


I don't get it, Hank. How does it affect everyone?


----------



## Antimatter

I'll say this and get off the soapbox. Had the Flying Sub come with the sliding fulll scale hatch instead of the hero hatch, the griping would have never stopped. I'm buying the kit, but I'm not happy with having to spend money to make it right.


----------



## toyroy

Antimatter said:


> I don't get it, Hank. How does it affect everyone?


That second line in my message was directed at Hank, who is the board owner. Recently, there have been several situations with folks choosing special personal avatars- particularly Berts(Model Maker.) It's not their fault, it's just a glitch in the system.


----------



## Lou Dalmaso

Carson Dyle said:


> Yeah, I'm not questioning the intended visual impression. My issue is with the notion that the effect was accomplished solely via the landing legs in conjunction with some sort of internal motor. Suffice it to say I'd be very surprised if such was the case.
> 
> Not that any of this has a damned thing to do with Moebius' astonishingly well designed and engineered model kit.
> 
> Speaking of which, this may be one model I'm going to have to wire for sound (I've always thought the J-2's engine whir was an integral part of its on-air personality). Any of you electronics geniuses planning an aftermarket sound chip?


Rob,
depending on how long you want the sound clip to go, there are three different ways to go.

1) I did a smith and robot kit where I took a radio shak make your own greeting card dealy and recorded about 20 seconds of smithisms and put the whole deal in the base

2) make a CD of effects and buy a cheap player and put it under the floor

3) see #2 but use a mp3 player.


----------



## Moebius

Slowly following all of this. I hope you all realize it is in tooling. These are prototype shots, the photos and their angles are not perfect. No changes are to be made, nothing to be added other than what was done after these shots were taken. I'm sorry it can't be more for some of you, but as with most Irwin Allen, it can't suit everyone. 

If we announced a more expensive kit, I'm sure the complaints would be there. We tried to keep it in a price range with as much as we could do, knowing price is a huge sales factor. With tooling costs what they are, only so much could be done. I had kind of thought this kit would make people happy, now I'm not sure...


----------



## sapper36

Well speaking for myself, My $100 bucks is already yours - Juat get te box on the shelf & we'll close that deal. I can't tell you how excited I am for this kit!


----------



## Captain Han Solo

Moebius said:


> Slowly following all of this. I hope you all realize it is in tooling. These are prototype shots, the photos and their angles are not perfect. No changes are to be made, nothing to be added other than what was done after these shots were taken. I'm sorry it can't be more for some of you, but as with most Irwin Allen, it can't suit everyone.
> 
> If we announced a more expensive kit, I'm sure the complaints would be there. We tried to keep it in a price range with as much as we could do, knowing price is a huge sales factor. With tooling costs what they are, only so much could be done. I had kind of thought this kit would make people happy, now I'm not sure...


Frank, I believe you have made a Great Many Irwin Allen/Lost In Space Fans Very Happy:thumbsup:

As a Modeler,Who actually builds models, I am really looking forward to this(and all your Kit releases)..Please don't loose the faith/dream!!!Also being a modeler, I can appreciate all the hard work you guys put into this....

You guys have far exceded what would normally be considered In a kit of this type ..It looks Beautiful!!!


----------



## m jamieson

"Make it right" by whose definition? It's already been established that this was not to be an exact copy of the 4 foot hero (full upper deck instead of scrim) I could also say that the J2 I consider "right" would have not been based on the 3rd season interior but rather the first with the power core door where the space pod is. But do I need to spend much money to change it? No..I'm a modeler right! some sheet styrene and a little innovation and now my J2 is different from the assembly line ones. The gear are no different ..considering some of the incredible customizations I've seen on the polar lights J2 and a lot of people did that without aftermarket add-ons. 
I personally don't want to see Dave Merriman pop in with the "kit assembler" lecture...but if we can't build the model we want without someone supplying everything and nothing is without challenge like paint by number artwork...then I'm afraid Dave would be right!
Which of course there is nothing wrong with an"assembler" either if you so choose.


----------



## RSN

Moebius said:


> Slowly following all of this. I hope you all realize it is in tooling. These are prototype shots, the photos and their angles are not perfect. No changes are to be made, nothing to be added other than what was done after these shots were taken. I'm sorry it can't be more for some of you, but as with most Irwin Allen, it can't suit everyone.
> 
> If we announced a more expensive kit, I'm sure the complaints would be there. We tried to keep it in a price range with as much as we could do, knowing price is a huge sales factor. With tooling costs what they are, only so much could be done. I had kind of thought this kit would make people happy, now I'm not sure...


You have provided us with great kits in the past, and this one will be added to the list. As a business owner you put yourself and your company on the line every time you produce a kit, and I for one am truly grateful!!!!!!

Ron Nastrom


----------



## falcondesigns

RSN said:


> You have provided us with great kits in the past, and this one will be added to the list. As a business owner you put yourself and your company on the line every time you produce a kit, and I for one am truly grateful!!!!!!
> 
> Ron Nastrom




I concur.....thank you,Moebius!


----------



## Steve CultTVman Iverson

Did I mention that I was more than happy? 

Remember all those crusty AMT Star Trek kits we had to deal with?

This kit will be here before you know it!

Steve


----------



## gojira61

Moebius said:


> I had kind of thought this kit would make people happy, now I'm not sure...


I’m giddy like a little school girl over this kit. :thumbsup:

Having said that it’s just impossible to make everyone happy, I know, I’m Director of Sales for a collectibles company so I can speak from experience.

You give it your best possible shot and for me this kit has exceeded my every expectation. I already have it planed where it’s going and ordered a case for it.

And like every Moebius kit I’ve bought to date I’ll be building one and putting away another.


----------



## Captain Han Solo

Ron Gross said:


> Then again, these forums are a valuable tool for any smart business man, and Frank certainly fits that description. This is a very different world in terms of communication than even a decade ago, and if I were running the show, I would want to have access to as much information as possible. That's why I didn't hesitate to spout off a little yesterday (even though I'm a pseudo insider), because I feel that nothing but positive product promotion can come of it. If one or the other moderators becomes irked about certain requests, they always have the choice not to answer.


I agree Frank is a Smart Business man..With a Lot of guts!!!!!And Imagination.
Finally someone comes along and Knows the Irwin Allen Line Is a seller..Not like the small minded other companies who think Si-Fi Modeling is Star Wars and Star Trek!!!

Ron it wasn't your posts I was referring to..In fact as I have said before, I really enjoy your Posts and Frank's and Dave's and Mr. Kerr's.


----------



## Gemini1999

JohnGuard said:


> i love the J-2 engine sound!!!!!!
> 
> where do you think it came from?


You wouldn't be the only one...

I think that some of my favorite scenes from LIS is when the J2 is either powering up to lift off/accelerate, or when it's landing. There was a site that had posted letters sent to Fox to try and determine how the sound was originally made (it used to be called Jup2.com, but it's gone now). They got a response, but nobody could remember except that it was a combination of different sounds and slowing down the actual sounds to get the right effect.

However it's made, the sound has a very power-filled effect to it and it works very well. It's one of my all time favorite sound effects used in a SciFi TV show.

Bryan


----------



## m jamieson

It is a work of art that only someone who truly cared about his customers would have produced. It didn't need to be this detailed, or large scale...and people still would have bought it!! It's the Jupiter 2 ...what Lost in Space fan wouldn't!! But the kind of detail that went into this kit is something people have been paying really big dollars for in the custom model market.


----------



## m jamieson

When I was a kid I always wanted this model to fly around the room and crash land behind the pillows. Truth be told ,when I get this kit built...I will probably flying it around the room!!...of course after I pull down the shades! lol


----------



## Antimatter

Steve CultTVman Iverson said:


> Did I mention that I was more than happy?
> 
> Remember all those crusty AMT Star Trek kits we had to deal with?
> 
> This kit will be here before you know it!
> 
> Steve


You're right, Steve. Sorry for the venting, guys. Old age you know. :freak:


----------



## mrdean

*I am Happy!!!!!*



Moebius said:


> Slowly following all of this.... If we announced a more expensive kit, I'm sure the complaints would be there. We tried to keep it in a price range with as much as we could do; knowing price is a huge sales factor. With tooling costs what they are, only so much could be done. I had kind of thought this kit would make people happy, now I'm not sure...


All I know is that I want one! I will use my Polar Lights kits for crash and flight scenes and I will take full advantage of all of the wonderful aftermarkets that Moebius encourages by getting product out to some of us to create the next level of perfection.

I would rather have an excellent starting point where I can add what I want over time to build the ultimate Jupiter 2 and still be able to afford one to build right out of the box to fly around the room!

And another thing!!!!!!!

This way Moebius can afford to bring other wonderful kits to us and we can choose to go crazy over the details! 

I can imagine some people will build a Pilot, Season 1, Season 2, Season 3 and all of the known miniatures that were created over the series. Call it a Hero or Full size or what ever I just cannot wait until I can call one MINE*! ! !*

Thanks Frank and Dave and Gary and Ron and anybody else that I forgot!

Mark D


----------



## Ron Gross

Moebius said:


> I had kind of thought this kit would make people happy, now I'm not sure...


Frank,
We're rapidly closing in on 300 posts in less than four days. I'm pretty sure...


----------



## Trekkriffic

Can't wait to get one. 

Moebius is good.


----------



## jbeatles62

This kit is gonna ROCK!!!!!!!!! I am getting 2 of them, and i still have 2 unpoened PL J-2's and one is the chrome version. I guess i will keep them for now.


----------



## Opus Penguin

Moebius ... I am very happy with the kit!!!! I already have someone planning to buy one and have me build it for him and I have two I plan to get!!! Don't let a few nitpicky bad apples get you down and make you think this kit will not sell!!!


----------



## starseeker

Lots of sound effects on the bonus disk of the 5 disk Irwin Allen soundtracks collection. 
I still don't understand the big kerfluffle over the landing gear. We haven't seen the kit yet, or its landing gear. Even if the gear were modeled after the full sized prop, in the overlay I posted above comparing the prop's to the Ron Grosses' estimate of the 4' hero gear, there's virtually no difference. Noticable difference between the full sized prop's landing gear on the bp to Ron's interpretation of the full sized prop's gear, tho, but with luck they went with the blueprinted prop's or with the hero. But since the landing gear are (or should be) the same width whichever version you want (since they have to fit into the same size holes in the bottom of the hull), and the same length , all you'd need to do to beef them up is run a strip of Evergreen styrene along the upper edges, sand them flush, and maybe sand the rectangular lightening holes a bit wider. Worst case scenario, IF the landing gear isn't to your liking, if you can work glue with enough expertise to put the kit together, you can fix your landing gear look like whatever you want.
But this is getting way ahead of itself. Nobody's even seen the model yet, not even the Moebius people themselves.
Oh, man, seven months of waiting??? But this is going to be so great.
Rather than worrying about maybes, maybe we should think about all the things that we know aren't in the kit but we'd like to see. This is primarily a commercial forum so this is a great place to let all our aftermarket friends know what's on our wish list. For me it would be: Resin - a Robot, NGS scanners, and any bits needed to make this a 1st season, not 3d season upper deck. Figures from Drewid, of course - the Robinsons in their flight suits. And etch - all the control panels (and reasonably accurate, unlike the Chariot's), the screens behind the lighted freezing tube panels, and hatch panels to make painting the crisp edges easier w/o having to rely on someone else's color choices. But that would hijack this thread so I won't say anything. Something like that really needs a thread of its own...


----------



## mrdean

Opus Penguin said:


> Moebius ... I am very happy with the kit!!!! I already have someone planning to buy one and have me build it for him and I have two I plan to get!!! Don't let a few nitpicky bad apples get you down and make you think this kit will not sell!!!


Not bad apples, just emotional!! :tongue:

Mark D


----------



## Ron Gross

mrdean said:


> Not bad apples, just emotional!! :tongue:
> 
> Mark D


And that kind of passion translates into sales...


----------



## hedorah59

Happy... Content... Fulfilled...

Yep, I am looking forward to the day that I will have this kit in hand :thumbsup:


----------



## Seaview

In the meantime, it's time for me to finish my Space Pod and begin my Flying Sub build! :hat:


----------



## spindrift

Good gosh, Frank...DO NOT let these remarks indicate that the kit is not wanted-IF you included everything from figures to tennis rackets to 56 alien figures and light, sound and smoke features people would STILL want more and B**** and moan....you NEVER can please the people that just look to complain about what is and what will be...
The kit is VERY VERY much wanted by many many people. Sales will prove that!
Your company has provided us with DREAM kits...nothing more needs to be said.
Gary:wave:


----------



## bane-7

Moebius said:


> Slowly following all of this. I hope you all realize it is in tooling. These are prototype shots, the photos and their angles are not perfect. No changes are to be made, nothing to be added other than what was done after these shots were taken. I'm sorry it can't be more for some of you, but as with most Irwin Allen, it can't suit everyone.
> 
> If we announced a more expensive kit, I'm sure the complaints would be there. We tried to keep it in a price range with as much as we could do, knowing price is a huge sales factor. With tooling costs what they are, only so much could be done. I had kind of thought this kit would make people happy, now I'm not sure...


Frank,

From what I can see here, for every some what neg post, there are 20 pos posts.
Read some of the TRUELY heart felt THANK YOU'S in this thread, I mean some of these guys are on the verge of passing out with excitement about this kit.
For most, myself included, this kit is the fufillment of a 40 + year dream come true, and I'd say that's pretty conclusive that people are happy with it.
The level of detail and accuracy you guys put into this kit is simply OUTSTANDING!!!
In all my 35 + years of building models, I've never seen this level of detail in a kit, a sci-fi subject anyway.
There is absolutely NOTHING to be ashamed of about it, you and Dave CLEARLY went above and beyond trying to give us everything you could in this kit, and keep it reasonable.
Even the post's that you could call neg really aren't, it's just guys wishing for more, not that they're unhappy with whats there, don't let the few ruin it.
99.9% I'd say are MORE than happy with what they see.
Remember, the feels of the many, out weigh the feelings of the few.

Keep up the GREAT work!!!


----------



## spocks beard

Moebius said:


> Slowly following all of this. I hope you all realize it is in tooling. These are prototype shots, the photos and their angles are not perfect. No changes are to be made, nothing to be added other than what was done after these shots were taken. I'm sorry it can't be more for some of you, but as with most Irwin Allen, it can't suit everyone.
> 
> If we announced a more expensive kit, I'm sure the complaints would be there. We tried to keep it in a price range with as much as we could do, knowing price is a huge sales factor. With tooling costs what they are, only so much could be done. I had kind of thought this kit would make people happy, now I'm not sure...


Unfortunately you can't please every one,
Believe me, The pix i have seen of this J2 kit look awsome and i will be very happy with it! Like many others here I have been waiting a long time for a larger Jupiter 2 kit to be released and am very grateful to all at Moebius for getting to us these finely detailed kits:thumbsup:come december, I will be getting one or two


----------



## Antimatter

Opus Penguin said:


> Moebius ... I am very happy with the kit!!!! I already have someone planning to buy one and have me build it for him and I have two I plan to get!!! Don't let a few nitpicky bad apples get you down and make you think this kit will not sell!!!


I know that putting apples inside a paper bag supposedly aids in ripening (due to supposed the emission of some sort of chemical), so it's not impossible that a rotten apple might somehow contaminate others near to it (especially in an enclosed environment). But does it? Is there any truth to the old saying? Will leaving a single rotten apple with other apples actually cause the other apples to rot before their time? Or is it just an urban legend?


----------



## toyroy

toyroy said:


> ...Many of us here are the most passionate of the passionate about the Jupiter 2. My sense is that Moebius took into account some of what was said previously, when they designed this model. But they weren't as open as they might have been, when it came down to some important nuts-and-bolts questions of design...If they had been, we certainly would've helped them.





beatlepaul said:


> WHAT????
> 
> Thank God Moebius has been doing things the way they have...


Why are you opposed to consumer input to product design?


----------



## Richard Baker

As mentioned earlier- I never really knew there were different versions of the landing gear- this whole issue does not matter to much to me. I enjoyed watching the shows on TV when they were broadcast th efirt time an dI have not doe a big study of the vehicles frame by frame like some here- apparently I was stupid enough to enjoy the PL kit without seeing it's flaws.
I am really looking forward to this new kit- the images I have seen so far are outstanding. I don't put figures or pilots in my models but it is nice some will be offered by the aftermarketers. Same goes for lighting kits and detail sets. I usually prefer to enhance my builds out of what I can cobble together myself (though I may spring for a rotating core assembly this time).
What I do hate is how the joy of this new kit has turned into an argumant of options and versions of equipment. At some point decisions have to be made as what to include and which details to follow. With so many differnet versions of this ship used in the actual show production ther is a lot to sift through. SOmebody is alway going to be disappointed in something they did not have, but most should be able to alter the kit to fit.
When was the last time anybody posting here actually built a model straight out of the box?


----------



## Darkhunter

I'm just grateful that we have a great company like Moebius that is devoted to doing the best they can to produce the most accurate kit possible!

It's true, it is impossible to please everyone but they will please the vast majority us and that is what matters.

This site can be a wonderful tool for information and input and that is exactly what this thread is.
The people at Moebius are gracious enough to share a lot of information with us. Not so long ago, I would have never dreamed that this kind of open dialog would exist between the modeler and the manufacturer.
I'm really looking forward to this kit and a big thank you goes out to all involved!


----------



## toyroy

Moebius said:


> ...I had kind of thought this kit would make people happy, now I'm not sure...






Ron Gross said:


> Frank,
> We're rapidly closing in on 300 posts in less than four days. I'm pretty sure...


Indeed.


----------



## Gemini1999

When it comes to making people happy, I'm sure that those that are actually happy about it, well outnumber those that aren't. In the end, it is really great that Moebius or anyone is taking the time and effort to make a new kit of something that was released just over 10 years ago. I'm sure that some model companies would be saying "why?" instead of going for it.

I think that the modeling community, no matter how much work, how much detail, or how many parts are included.....you're still gonna get folks that say "I want this", "What about that?", "This bit isn't accurate to the original", etc. and so on. As someone has already said, it's impossible to put a kit out that will make everyone happy and if you did, it would cost 200-250 dollars and then you'd have folks complain about pricing and their inablity to join in the fun.

There is no perfect solution. All that Moebius can do is make a kit that will make as many peopls happy as they can and the rest will just have to hope for aftermarket goodies (at a price), or make their own modifications to make them happy.

Bryan


----------



## GlennME

Moebius said:


> I had kind of thought this kit would make people happy, now I'm not sure...


Usually, I'm not that big on predictions ... but, I confidently predict that this will be a gigantic success.

Thanks Moebius, for creating the J2 model we've all been waiting for. I can hardly wait.

Glenn


----------



## jbond

I do think the number of posts clearly indicates the level of interest in this kit. And consumer input is great, but at some point as was said earlier, you have to make decisions and actually produce the thing. What's amazing is how LITTLE Moebius has compromised detail, size and quality on the Irwin Allen kits so far--these are subjects that have been done wrong, or not at all, for DECADES, and now we have a company producing them with amazing quality and on an astonishing schedule, AND for a price most of us can afford. And given the different miniature and full-size representations of these vehicles, I think they've shown amazing taste in trying to blend the elements of these things to please as many people as possible.


----------



## JPhil123

GlennME said:


> Usually, I'm not that big on predictions ... but, I confidently predict that this will be a gigantic success.
> 
> Thanks Moebius, for creating the J2 model we've all been waiting for. I can hardly wait.
> 
> Glenn


Hello,

You can't please everyone, but the new Jupiter 2 will be just super I'm sure. The prototype pictures are superb. I suspect we are on the verge of seeing a kit that will very likely define what true model kit quality is. A new era in model kits is here.

Many thanks to all contributors to the new Jupiter 2 kit.

Regards,
Jim


----------



## GEH737

Frank -

I certainly don't speak for anyone other than myself (see my previous posting) - I believe that you're simply seeing a lot of talk about the kit - simply because it's happening! Star Trek guys have had decades to debate every little detail. The beautiful Fine Molds Millennium Falcon was critiqued because the front mandible "may" have been off by two whole degrees (or something like that). On the military aircraft forums, there's constant, bitter debate on every little detail on every new kit. If the guys here didn't care, they wouldn't bother with posting. On every forum, there's debate about commenting on accuracy / just build it theories. Both have their merits, but trust me, nothing short of my asssuming room temperature will prevent me from buying this kit. I'd be a lot more concerned if nobody was talking about it... I personally can't wait 

Regards,
George


----------



## JPhil123

Ron Gross said:


> And that kind of passion translates into sales...


Hello, Ron...

The passion is there for sure! By the way, this forum is an unprecedented place in which to exchange ideas. Passions run deep. Some of that is good and some has to be expected. 

Just to have an opportunity to contribute ideas, desires and suggestions is a wonderful thing to me. I always loved model kits, and I remember when the only way to make any model kit suggestions was to write to the manufacturer. Of course, there was the usual form letter returned (maybe), with a box checked off and little or no thought put into a written response that could hardly be read anyway. I appreciate the fact that we have dialog directly from the involved parties. That shows me that they have interest and passion for the business and the product.

As far as Jupiter 2 goes, can't wait!

Jim Crompton


----------



## falcondesigns

toyroy said:


> Why are you opposed to consumer input to product design?




the product is in the production stage right now,without any "consumer input" It is being produced by professionals.Startrek Skunkman.....


----------



## Lloyd Collins

I understand wanting the ultimate model, but what most want is really a collector toy, with moving parts,lights, sound, and perfect to boot. I understand Frank's remark, that he thought we would be happy. Maybe Frank should wait until a kit ships to the store to tell us it is coming. 

I missed the days of Polar Light, remember the bad days of no kit company who listened to us, and now Moeibus. I am very happy with all of the Moebius kits I have bought. Why? Because we are getting the best, and nothing else should be said about it.

I am thankful to have Moeibus putting out what I always wanted, nuff said.


----------



## Dar

WOW. 5 or 6 pages of posts in one day.:freak:



Moebius said:


> Slowly following all of this. I hope you all realize it is in tooling. These are prototype shots, the photos and their angles are not perfect. No changes are to be made, nothing to be added other than what was done after these shots were taken. I'm sorry it can't be more for some of you, but as with most Irwin Allen, it can't suit everyone.
> 
> If we announced a more expensive kit, I'm sure the complaints would be there. We tried to keep it in a price range with as much as we could do, knowing price is a huge sales factor. With tooling costs what they are, only so much could be done. I had kind of thought this kit would make people happy, now I'm not sure...



Im happy. Im more than happy Im estatic.This is the kit thats going to bring me back in this hobby and many others im sure. I have bought some other great moebius kits as of late and intend to build them when I have the time, BUT the J2 will be something I make time for. The bottom line is wayyyyy more people are happy than those that are not. :thumbsup: From the pictures I have seen this is one of the coolest models I have laid eyes on. You should be proud. 

Think of all the LIS fans who watched the show when it premiered and the younger people like me (Im gonna be 40 next year, GULP) who only saw it in reruns on those summer days, rushing in to watch it after cutting the grass, who are gonna have a blast building this into the wee hours of the morning with their LIS dvds on in the background. I can assure you you have not only produced a stunning model but you guys are also producing some good times for many of us. THAT alone is worth $109. I will remember this year (and the last couple)fondly for the release of this kit. Seriously, I know it sounds corny but its really going to be a blast. 


Im still gonna buy my three,(maybe more) my brother is going to purchase a couple. Im also going to purchase any cool aftermarket parts that come along that I like. Half the fun is collecting the stuff to make the J2 to your liking.


----------



## tardis61

To all Moebius Fans

i am as happy as a clam I am

cant wait until December - probably later in Aussie!

Watch that,
you neanderthal ninny!


----------



## Tim Nolan

Dumb question. What does the term "Hero" denote with these movie props?
Was that a company who made the props or what? I noticed in the Chariot instructions it too was referred to in this manner. Just wondering....I'm not as savvy with all this stuff as most of you are...:tongue:

(I'm still doin' the Irish Jig over this thing by the way.....:woohoo
I even woke up thinking about the kit this morning, but reality hit on my way to work when I got a call my office had been broken into.....rats...) :drunk:


----------



## Ron Gross

JPhil123 said:


> Hello, Ron...
> 
> The passion is there for sure! By the way, this forum is an unprecedented place in which to exchange ideas. Passions run deep. Some of that is good
> Jim Crompton


Jim,
You're a class act, as always. Just tell me when you want to become a co-moderator on the other forum. I know, I know, I've been after you about this for years...


----------



## Ron Gross

Tim Nolan said:


> Dumb question. What does the term "Hero" denote with these movie props?


Tim,
The term "hero" denotes the primary, articulated miniature. In the case of the J2, it was the model that was used for the landing shots. The term was also used for the primary Robot costume, as opposed to the "stunt" long distance double.


----------



## John P

Moebius said:


> Slowly following all of this. I hope you all realize it is in tooling. These are prototype shots, the photos and their angles are not perfect. No changes are to be made, nothing to be added other than what was done after these shots were taken. I'm sorry it can't be more for some of you, but as with most Irwin Allen, it can't suit everyone.
> 
> If we announced a more expensive kit, I'm sure the complaints would be there. We tried to keep it in a price range with as much as we could do, knowing price is a huge sales factor. With tooling costs what they are, only so much could be done. I had kind of thought this kit would make people happy, now I'm not sure...


Never doubt yourself, bubi. We love ya.
I for one am completely happy with this. My earlier "throw a robot in" crack was just a wisecrack, not meant to be take seriously.


----------



## falcondesigns

Tim Nolan said:


> Dumb question. What does the term "Hero" denote with these movie props?




It is the prop or car that does the most work on screen,as in the #1 Batmobile.


----------



## Ron Gross

GEH737 said:


> Frank -
> 
> I certainly don't speak for anyone other than myself (see my previous posting) - I believe that you're simply seeing a lot of talk about the kit - simply because it's happening! Star Trek guys have had decades to debate every little detail. The beautiful Fine Molds Millennium Falcon was critiqued because the front mandible "may" have been off by two whole degrees (or something like that). On the military aircraft forums, there's constant, bitter debate on every little detail on every new kit. If the guys here didn't care, they wouldn't bother with posting. On every forum, there's debate about commenting on accuracy / just build it theories. Both have their merits, but trust me, nothing short of my asssuming room temperature will prevent me from buying this kit. I'd be a lot more concerned if nobody was talking about it... I personally can't wait
> 
> Regards,
> George


George and all,
Thanks for this very intelligent post, which expresses my sentiments exactly. Let me take this opportunity to clarify a few things over which there may still be misconceptions:

1.) I have no expectation that there will be any changes to the existing design, and that is not why I brought the issue of the landing gear to light. 

2.) I did so at a certain point because questions about the subject had been raised a few times, most likely due to one of the posted prototype images. I did not envision having to deal with this so soon. I made the decision as a sort of disarming gesture, so that those who prefer the "hero" gear would know that there is the beginning of a plan in place.

3.) I have every expectation that there will be an after market offering of the "hero" landing gear, but as I said before, I can't say how and when at this point.

4.) In reviewing these posts, I see no evidence of excessive complaining, only the healthy expression of opinions. At the point when the thread got a little wild with requests for figures, mini robots, et all, Dave stepped in, and that was that.

5.) This is going to be a fantastic kit that we will all be proud to own.


----------



## Lee Staton

Ya know, I think modelers are so used to complaining about the crummy hand that sci-fi has always been dealt that we don't know how NOT to do it when things are this darned good.

Years ago, when Monogram was at a big hobby show, I asked them what scale their new B5 Star Fury was going to be. "It's science fiction, it has no scale," was the response I got.

Years before that, I was at AMT's plant in Troy, Michigan, when their product guy was showing me a poster-sized photo of the bridge of the Enterprise prototype. It was pretty accurate! He then told me they'd had to take some shortcuts in the kit, but nobody would notice. I flashed into zealot mode and pointed out every change that they'd got wrong. It was rude of me as a guest, but I couldn't help myself. This stuff is what we know and build. I told him the changes they'd made were akin to putting the dashboard in the trunk on a car model and hoping nobody would notice.

Those were the bad old days. I've been building for 45 years now, and no company has treated our subject matter with as much care, respect and craftsmanship as Moebius (and Fine Molds, I guess, but Moebius is doing what *I* really wanted).

As I read these threads I have to smile. I've always described my life-long hobby as "building small replicas of things that never existed." It gives me a little perspective (pun intended) on what we obsess over.

I can hardly wait for the money to fly out of my wallet for this kit, Frank! You, Dave, Gary and Ron are making a real wish come true for this modeler. Yep, I know the Irwin Allen stuff is silly. But this is a kit I've waited for since 1965!

Thank you!!!

Lee


----------



## Ron Gross

Lee,
As I said once before, a testimonial like this from you personally is better than a gold medal at Wonderfest.


----------



## Lee Staton

Thanks for the very kind sentiment, Ron, but I am just another crazy model builder. Like many of you, I spent years making Jupiter 2s out of styrofoam domes...and later graduated to searching for plastic salad bowls with a profile that might pass for a homemade J-2. I was both excited and let down by the Polar Lights kit because it circled around my vision of the kit but didn't quite land.

How the Moebuis team even attempts to reconcile the various sets, miniatures, props, etc., in an Irwin Allen show is a herculean task. Because everyone is right, in a way, and everyone is wrong. The J-2 on screen was an amalgam of tricks to make us believe in a space-worthy 2-story family home. Nothing fits, nothing ever really was thought out. It is an illusion. How do you make a scale model of an illusion?

The fact that you all try, and succeed so well, is an honor to your customers.

Lee


----------



## Ron Gross

Lee,
When I was in the 8th grade, I built my first custom J2 for an art project. I did a crash landing scene with a paper mache base, and a J2 basically made out of poster board (cut out circular sections of certain widths that were folded into conic sections and combined, etc). The top dome came from one of those trinket dispensers that can still be found near store fronts. Finally, I added the cyclops from the Aurora diorama as if it were attacking the ship. I remember that I got an "A" on the project.

10+ years ago, I returned to that school, where that same teacher was now the principal. I had with me copies of my magazine articles that described my "new" J2 scratch built model, the Polar Lights J2, and yes, the original 8th grade project that I have been sentimental enough to actually keep all of those years. It was in really bad shape, as you might imagine, but we had a great time reflecting on all of the above. Some things never really change, nor should they.


----------



## Zathros

teslabe said:


> I bet the real street price will be less then that, but even $109.00 is a fair
> price for a kit this nice...... There are about 200 pieces to this monster.....


 
It _better_ be! lol


----------



## woof359

so henry, how bout a new gantry (-:


----------



## woof359

I know like most all the Jupiters seen on the show were slightly differant from one another, Im suprised some one hasnt made a book on the Jupter II. a nice sized coffee table book would be interesting showing all the differant props saucers.


----------



## thebloop

Ron Gross said:


> George and all,
> Thanks for this very intelligent post, which expresses my sentiments exactly. Let me take this opportunity to clarify a few things over which there may still be misconceptions:
> 
> 1.) I have no expectation that there will be any changes to the existing design, and that it not why I brought the issue of the landing gear to light.
> 
> 2.) I did so at a certain point because questions about the subject had been raised a few times, most likely due to one of the posted prototype images. I did not envision having to deal with this so soon. I made the decision as a sort of disarming gesture, so that those who prefer the "hero" gear would know that there is the beginning of a plan in place.
> 
> 3.) I have every expectation that there will be an after market offering of the "hero" landing gear, but as I said before, I can't say how and when at this point.
> 
> 4.) In reviewing these posts, I see no evidence of excessive complaining, only the healthy expression of opinions. At the point when the thread got a little wild with requests for figures, mini robots, et all, Dave stepped in, and that was that.
> 
> 5.) This is going to be a fantastic kit that we will all be proud to own.



Ron,

No doubt, almost everyone seems pleased with the forthcoming Jupiter 2 kit. By the way, my thanks to all involved. At this point, no matter what consumer suggestions may be, it's likely too late to do anything about. But that's also where third parties can get ideas. For instance, hatches won't come functional. Perhaps someone can make the upgraded hatches.

In another post I previously asked whether the lower core fins and the upper hull dome radar features were in this kit and I didn't see any response on that. Home making of the fins shouldn't be a problem. Will there be a radar in the upper dome? If not, perhaps it could be made by a third party. Motorization is possible. Why not; my Master Replica's Star Trek Enterprise engines are lighted and motorized. The reason I inquire about this detail is because I found it cool when I watched this fan-made clip:

http://www.vimeo.com/1799887

You can see the rotating dome radar at 49 seconds and further into this just-for-fun clip.

Thanks.


----------



## bert model maker

woof359 said:


> so henry, how bout a new gantry (-:


Henry IS working on one woolf. I have the one for the PL Jupiter 2 and it is OUTSTANDING ! One to fit the moebius Jupiter 2 will be a sight to behold. ! Henry is a true craftsman !!!!
Bert


----------



## Gary K

thebloop said:


> I previously wrote whether the lower core fins and the upper hull dome radar features were in this kit. Home making of the fins shouldn't be a problem. Will there be a radar in the upper dome?


The model has two fusion cores - one with retracted fins, and one with extended fins. And yes, there's a radar in the upper dome. 

Gary


----------



## tardis61

I am STILL happy as a clam

Ron, Jim, Dave and Frank and all the team this will be the most exciting kit to arrive, Thanks so much for fulfilling the fans needs witha great project like this. My first J2
was two saucers glued together and a bouncy clear ball sliced in half for the dome
way back in England! 
I have several Polar lights Jupiters and a Lunar Jupiter.
This one will be awesome, compared to the fantastic Chariot and Pod kits I got last year
keep up the great work and bask in the respect and admiration of many Irwin Allen Fans.

Oh joy , oh Crepe suzette!


----------



## AJ-1701

Ok from a very happy :woohoo:Aussie I say a big *THANK YOU *to the team at Moebius. I knew you'd do a good job on this iconic ship when I first read about it on here and hell, the sneek pics proved it to me. This kit will be outstanding for me, my collection and my moderate skills.

The legs may be a bit spindley... 
*Don't care *:thumbsup:
The elevator goes where? And there's no crew or robot...?
*Don't care *:thumbsup:
The doors don't slide...
*Don't care *:thumbsup:
It may sell for around $100.00 US plus postage to OZ with conversion factor = around $200 AU...
*Don't care *:thumbsup:
I gotta wait till december...
*Don't care *:thumbsup: (well maybe just a tad)
Wife complaing of budget and room... Uhmm... well maybe... Nope!
*Don't care*

I JUST WANT ONE.....:wave:

I can see my on the bench Trek kits getting lost in dust ...


----------



## AJ-1701

tardis61 said:


> My first J2 was two saucers glued together and a bouncy clear ball sliced in half for the dome


Mine too. And my mum was madder than a cut snake when she found out which set I'd pinched them from. 

Many years later I progressed to an LM vac kit (my first such kit ) and which I still have on my shelves


----------



## Antimatter

People complain because they love the subject and they just want what looks best for them, that's all. Moebius is the best and we all know that. As parents we complain about our kids because they sometimes do what we don't like, but that doesn't mean we don't still love them.


----------



## Y3a

Because the original mechanics are gone now, we will NEVER know exactly how it was set up. I reverse engineered some aspects of the gear system from what hints and components that are still left. The gear had to be spring loaded as the pullys and such exert the pull on lowering the gear. Probably the same is true of the footpad doors. The sequence for lowering the gear is a two step process. First the footpad doors must all open up to the point of clearing the hole, and getting to a position where all 3 doors being at the open position allow the legs to drop. it looks like a cable went around the inside through several pullys and that the footpad doors and the legs were all pulled by this cable. Springs would raise the legs and push the pad doors shut as the cable went the other way. The cable was probably powered by a motor and gearbox for torque. One take-up spool could wind the cable up and a spring on the opposite side would pull it back. Alternative method could have been a loop of cable and the gearbox moved the cable both directions, but still with those springs on the doors and legs. You can see outlines on the inside of the Hero of the pullys, and the pully wheels in the "A" frames above gear wells as well as on the arm of the Landing gear leg.

The Hero was supported by a 50 foot mike/camera boom and a seldom mentioned 'control box' worked the gear. The lights and spinning effects were powered by motorcycle batteries in the model. The support wires carried power to the gear. A BIG counterweight was on the back of that boom, so the models weight was offset by the counterweight, so the gear could have lifted the model up, but could not support the model off the boom.


----------



## Moebius

I guess I sounded too serious when I questioned whether people were happy with it or not. From the response at WF, I know 99% are happy. As I know with everything IA, compromise has to be made, as there is no way to even include all the variations in one box no less produce them all! Looking forward to test shots, we'll post something more soon. Still trying to get caught up here after WF. MkII Iron Man and the mini Flying Sub and Robot are coming in and I have been trying to make room! Much more stuff here than I would have thought a year ago!

Thanks for all the kind words, but to be honest most of the credit goes to (in no particular order) Ron, Gary, Dave, and the prototyper in China. Gary's plans are incredible, but it still amazes me that someone in China that most likely has no clue as to what it is could have built this thing from scratch! That's where Dave and the corrections came in. And of course without Ron we may have waited another year before getting started on this!


----------



## thebloop

Gary K said:


> The model has two fusion cores - one with retracted fins, and one with extended fins. And yes, there's a radar in the upper dome.
> 
> Gary


Two Fusion Cores! Wow, this model is better than I originally thought. Thanks, Gary.

Mike


----------



## Mark Dorais

tardis61 said:


> I am STILL happy as a clam
> 
> Ron, Jim, Dave and Frank and all the team this will be the most exciting kit to arrive, Thanks so much for fulfilling the fans needs witha great project like this. My first J2
> was two saucers glued together and a bouncy clear ball sliced in half for the dome
> way back in England!
> I have several Polar lights Jupiters and a Lunar Jupiter.
> This one will be awesome, compared to the fantastic Chariot and Pod kits I got last year
> keep up the great work and bask in the respect and admiration of many Irwin Allen Fans.
> 
> Oh joy , oh Crepe suzette!


As a kid, my first homeade Jupiter 2 was contructed from two paper plates glued together with the viewport cut out. Also a half plastic container from a vending maching for the clear dome. In addition I also turned a saucer-shaped canteen into, what I thought, looked like our famous ship.:tongue:


----------



## teslabe

Mark Dorais said:


> As a kid, my first homeade Jupiter 2 was contructed from two paper plates glued together with the viewport cut out. Also a half plastic container from a vending maching for the clear dome. In addition I also turned a saucer-shaped canteen into, what I thought, looked like our famous ship.:tongue:


As I had said at the start of this tread (#6), I'm just speechless and so very happy to know I will soon have a life long (40 plus years), dream come true......:thumbsup:
Everything about this kit is great, she is a work of art and it's been well worth
it. Everyone who worked on this should get a big pat on the back for such a fine job........:thumbsup: I'm just looking for Steve to post the preorder link
so I can get my two kit in line.

P.S. I too had a paper plate J-2, glad to see I was not the only one....


----------



## Antimatter

Moebius said:


> I guess I sounded too serious when I questioned whether people were happy with it or not. From the response at WF, I know 99% are happy. As I know with everything IA, compromise has to be made, as there is no way to even include all the variations in one box no less produce them all! Looking forward to test shots, we'll post something more soon. Still trying to get caught up here after WF. MkII Iron Man and the mini Flying Sub and Robot are coming in and I have been trying to make room! Much more stuff here than I would have thought a year ago!
> 
> Thanks for all the kind words, but to be honest most of the credit goes to (in no particular order) Ron, Gary, Dave, and the prototyper in China. *Gary's plans are incredible, but it still amazes me that someone in China that most likely has no clue as to what it is could have built this thing from scratch! *That's where Dave and the corrections came in. And of course without Ron we may have waited another year before getting started on this!


That got me to thinking. I wonder if Lost in Space has ever been seen in China? If not they must think were're all crazy. :freak:


----------



## m jamieson

I dunno..China is getting into the space race big time! Perhaps they will steal the proto type of the 'secret western space-craft' and their new moon-lander with look like the Moebius Jupiter 2!


----------



## WarpCore Breach

Everyday there's at least 6 pages of new posts to go through! Wow!

I think that like everyone else here, I'm absolutely THRILLED with a new version of the Jupiter 2 that even better than anything else before! I rather liked the Polar Lights Jupiter 2 - it was well crafted, with obvious compromises here and there and has been pointed out, it's tough to choose the *correct* version to model from!

While not perfect, the Polar J2 was and still is a fine model of a subject that had been long overlooked for many years by mainstream manufacturers. I give Lunar Models credit for their efforts in this area and I do have a 16" J2 in my stash, along with an interior kit (upper deck only; they made no attempt at the lower deck which won't fit in there anyhow!) plus the fusion core kit. Whew!!

Now Moebius is going to be coming out with a J2 that is even bigger than the Lunar kit AND a full interior plus landing gear?!?! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

There aren't enought emoticons to show my delight as this prospect!!! If this kit is as well-engineered as the Flying Sub is... Holy cow!!! It WILL be amazing!!

Moebius is going to give us the ultimate Jupiter 2 in plastic to date! Other options- I'm sure there will be some very enterprising aftermarket producers!!

Thanks, Frank, for being able to bring the dream to life as well as the creative people who are making the model possible!


----------



## Nektu

So... why is it too late to add the 'hero' model legs? I know that there are cost considerations, but you guys have gone so far with this, why not make it the perfect kit? You included two fusion cores, right? I sorta hated some of the Seaviews that took the best of each model, but that's me. Same goes with Gerry Anderson stuff, there had to be six or seven Thunderbird 2 models, but the launch one is everyone's fave. The kit looks fantastic, but the idea of having to plunk down another chunk of change for new legs is too bad. I'd rather put the money in Moebius' pocket, to have it be part of the kit! 
Resin landing legs won't cut it, so they have to be metal I'd guess. Just 2 cents... Bring it on! Moebius rocks the house again!


----------



## JPhil123

Antimatter said:


> That got me to thinking. I wonder if Lost in Space has ever been seen in China? If not they must think were're all crazy. :freak:


Hello.

Actually, I heard "Lost In Space" was screened at the end of each meeting of people's deputies back in the 1960s. It was a favorite of Mao Tse-tung. But all seriousness aside, I would suspect that the show probably has fans in China.

Jim


----------



## john_trek

beatlepaul said:


> WHAT????
> 
> Thank God Moebius has been doing things the way they have.
> 
> I give these guys a lot of credit, I have a LOT of Patience, But I don't think I _c_ould deal with the same..*I would like this..Please include that..Make the Panels Clear.......OPEN MY BOX FOR ME..Build my model for me..!!!!!!!!Jeeeez*
> 
> *Are any of you guys actually going to build this thing when it comes out?(LOL)!!!*


??? 

Build it? 

BUILD IT???? 

What, and ruin a great model?

Oh no, no, no. I will reserve one at my local shop, buy it the moment it appears. Scamper home, and open the box with glee. I'll pull out the bags one by one, gazing in amazement at the parts in the same way I did when I was 10 (and 20, and 30, and ....). Then I'll find the decal sheet and look it over. Finally, I'll take out the instruction sheet and start to figure out how it all goes together. 

Afterwards, I'll smoke a cigarette, then try to put the bags back in the box and get it to close. Once it is all safe and sound I'll put it in the closet where it will keep company with the Moebius Seaview and the Polar Lights Enterprise Refit.

Build it. Oh my, how naive.


----------



## Dave P

teslabe said:


> I too had a paper plate J-2, glad to see I was not the only one....


I also drew mine on my Frisbees to fly around he yard. :thumbsup:


----------



## chief1615

The resin Bloop droppings had me crying laughing. I laughed for 10 minutes. Hilarious!


----------



## Richard Baker

Dave P said:


> I also drew mine on my Frisbees to fly around he yard. :thumbsup:


I built mine out of gray construction paper- it had a working crash shield too.
I cut a hole in the back so I look through it out the front port and have a pilot's eye view of it crashing on the sofa cushion.

ah- good times, good times...

.


----------



## Capt. Krik

Moebius said:


> I had kind of thought this kit would make people happy, now I'm not sure...


Let me say right here and now that I am anxiously looking forward to this kit.

In fact I had thought about starting a Jupiter 2 NON-wish thread. NON-wish because I feel Moebius has proven themselves. Frank and Dave know what they're doing. I don't feel the need to post a list of things I want to see in the Jupiter 2 because from waht I've seen they're already there.

Look at the Seaview, Chariot, Space Pod and Flying Sub kits. These are without a doubt the best engineered and detailed Sci-Fi kits I have seen. Frank has gone the extra mile to make these the best kits he possibly can yet still keeping them in a reasonable price range.

BRAVO, GUYS! You done good. Looking forward to the Jupiter 2 and the Battlestar kits.


----------



## toyroy

Antimatter said:


> That got me to thinking. I wonder if Lost in Space has ever been seen in China? If not they must think were're all crazy. :freak:


You think they'd find us less crazy if they've _seen_ the show?


----------



## gareee

Man, was this thread a welcome surprise when I popped in today!

This just looks jaw-droppingly amazing! I thought I'd was happy with the old PL kit, but this just blows that away many times over.

I do have a few concerns/thoughts to share...

One concern is the landing gear.. will they support the model over time without sagging? Some action figure companies replace plastic supports with thin metal rods.. since they are straight, maybe this might make the landing struts study enough to prevent sagging over time?

The other major concern (that I always harp about), is I'm still seeing a LOT of control panels with significant lighting that sound like they will be solid cast. PLEASE if something has significant lighting potential, cast it in clear! Odds are all parts will be painted by kit builders anyway, there isn't any significant cost involved in making them clear anyway, and it makes lighting something like this SO much easier. I hate to dremel out holes in details that should be raised for lighting, and odds are rearranging parts on sprues so there are more clear parts [hopefully] wouldn't be an issue, even at this late date. 

I *really* HOPE the release date doesn't slide, so I can let my wife deliver this under the tree for christmas, as she did with the chrome PL J2 many years ago.

Another thought: Maybe the existing robot could be scaled, so a J2 scaled one could be made realtively cheaply? Just a thought, since most of the legwork for that is already done, and there will be a built in market for him.

One last idea... Maybe get the guy who did the chariot figures to do figures for the J2 on a commision basis, include the scaled robot, and create a official Moebius add on kit? It could include the robot, figures, and maybe even landing sight gear like the force field generator, drill rig, and hydroponics stuff.

Regardless of my concerns, like the seaview and flying sub, these are making this new decade into a crowning decade for my scale modelling, surpassing items released in the past, even though the hobby seems to be in a crash dive.

Frank, thanks a LOT for doing things like this for us!


----------



## g_xii

woof359 said:


> so henry, how bout a new gantry (-:


I already scaled it up! Waiting for a bit now for a test shot so I can get the lower hull contour correct, though. It will not be acrylic, but another kind of plastic that is easier to paint and a bit cheaper (so I can keep the price reasonable). It will also be coming out in light GRAY! So it will be a snap to paint and put together. 

It will be a while yet, though! However, it will be available by the time the kit comes out.

--Henry


----------



## g_xii

chief1615 said:


> The resin Bloop droppings had me crying laughing. I laughed for 10 minutes. Hilarious!


Yeah -- I liked that one too!


----------



## toyroy

gareee said:


> ...Maybe the existing robot could be scaled, so a J2 scaled one could be made realtively cheaply?...


_NOOOoooooooooo!!!_



gareee said:


> ...Maybe get the guy who did the chariot figures to do figures for the J2...It could include the robot, figures, and maybe even landing sight gear like the force field generator, drill rig, and hydroponics stuff...


Drewid142 has already announced a J2 figure set, including an _accurate_ Robot!


----------



## toyroy

woof359 said:


> so henry, how bout a new gantry (-:





g_xii said:


> I already scaled it up!...



Henry,
I'm sure you're familiar with the LiS pilot, and with Jim Key's launch site dioramas. Plus, you obviously have some graphics facility. How about making available a launchsite backdrop cyclorama? It'd be the best possible accessory to your launch pad!


----------



## gareee

Sorry, but I'd prefer to see a mass marketed set cheaper, then a limited aftermarket set released that costs more. Thats why I suggested maybe they could hire him to do the basic work.

I can't/won't buy an aftermarket accessory set that costs $30-$40.. if it could be done mass market in hobby stores for half the priece, more peopel could get them, and more could afford them.


----------



## g_xii

toyroy said:


> Henry,
> I'm sure you're familiar with the LiS pilot, and with Jim Key's launch site dioramas. Plus, you obviously have some graphics facility. How about making available a launchsite backdrop cyclorama? It'd be the best possible accessory to your launch pad!


I'll see what I can do -- I've been thinking of it for a while now, just have not taken the plunge!

--Henry


----------



## Richard Baker

gareee said:


> Sorry, but I'd prefer to see a mass marketed set cheaper, then a limited aftermarket set released that costs more. Thats why I suggested maybe they could hire him to do the basic work.
> 
> I can't/won't buy an aftermarket accessory set that costs $30-$40.. if it could be done mass market in hobby stores for half the priece, more peopel could get them, and more could afford them.


 
The idea of a separate accessory kit produced by Moebius is interesting - instead of a climbing parts count which raises the cost of the kit. The big question would be how many of the people buying the Jupiter 2 kit would also buy the accessory set. Mastering/Tooling costs would require a very high number of sales to justify it.


----------



## toyroy

gareee said:


> ...I'd prefer to see a mass marketed set cheaper, then a limited aftermarket set released that costs more...if it could be done mass market in hobby stores for half the priece, more peopel could get them, and more could afford them.


Only Moebius knows how their existing stuff is selling, and they haven't got the small FS and Robot kits out yet- which should be as close to "mass market" as anything they've done so far. 

Personally, I'm categorically opposed to _any_ additional incarnations, beyond the chariot version, of that infernal Aurora Robot design.


----------



## toyroy

toyroy said:


> ...How about making available a launchsite backdrop cyclorama?...





g_xii said:


> I'll see what I can do...


:thumbsup:.


----------



## John P

Nektu said:


> So... why is it too late to add the 'hero' model legs?


Because the kit is a done deal. Molds have been cut. Except for minor tweaks, there can be no major changes now without major expense, significant delay, and a huge increase in the price of the model.


----------



## m jamieson

Well I'm glad someone laughed at my resin Bloop dropping idea....I was afraid someone was thinking I was serious and try and beat me to the punch on that aftermarket sales bonanza! lol


----------



## gareee

Richard Baker said:


> The idea of a separate accessory kit produced by Moebius is interesting - instead of a climbing parts count which raises the cost of the kit. The big question would be how many of the people buying the Jupiter 2 kit would also buy the accessory set. Mastering/Tooling costs would require a very high number of sales to justify it.


True, but if people are shelling out $100 for the ship, they might be willing to also part with $20-$30 for a complete set of interior people, a complete set of exterior people, the robot, and additional goodies.

People obviously can now be rapid prototyped pretty inexpensively, so you don't need micro sculpting. They already have a robot that just needs scaling down or up, and that would just leave sculpting of the exterior environment items.

And individual has to charge a lot for a "garage" kit because he doesn't have the sales volume to defer costs as much, but a larger company might be able to use him, and get that number of units out there to justify it.

They could even release the kit with the add on accesories as a limited "deluxe" release laster, again helping to defer costs, and maybe cast the ship in different colored plastic, or maybe even glow or chrome, like the PL kit.


----------



## toyroy

m jamieson said:


> Well I'm glad someone laughed at my resin Bloop dropping idea...


Resin bloop poo is always quality material. :lol:


----------



## Steve H

gareee said:


> True, but if people are shelling out $100 for the ship, they might be willing to also part with $20-$30 for a complete set of interior people, a complete set of exterior people, the robot, and additional goodies.
> 
> People obviously can now be rapid prototyped pretty inexpensively, so you don't need micro sculpting. They already have a robot that just needs scaling down or up, and that would just leave sculpting of the exterior environment items.
> 
> And individual has to charge a lot for a "garage" kit because he doesn't have the sales volume to defer costs as much, but a larger company might be able to use him, and get that number of units out there to justify it.
> 
> They could even release the kit with the add on accesories as a limited "deluxe" release laster, again helping to defer costs, and maybe cast the ship in different colored plastic, or maybe even glow or chrome, like the PL kit.


Well, there's an obvious solution, I think. Don't sell such a thing as an 'add on' kit, sell it as it's own diorama.

"Robinson Family camp site" with a nice base (prehistoric scenes style, I'll get to that in a moment), all the characters, the key props (force field generator and such), and maybe alternate parts (seated legs and standing legs maybe).

I suggest a 'prehistoric scenes' style base so that if (oh, who am I kidding, we all know they're gonna, right?  ) an in-scale Chariot is made that too could have a display base and link to the camp site.

I'm not sure how you do the spacesuit versions other than making it somehow a paint and putty option, you can't very well have a 'launch of the J2' diorama sans the ship...

Now I hear the objection. let me get ahead of it?  'licensing costs and permissions preclude this as an idea' right? Not so sure about that.

Yes, today, the modern world there's a huge mess of having to get the approval of the actors involved, because there's fees and royalty payments. Alot of that goes back to Star Trek and the feeling Shatner and Nimoy had about their images being used. But there was, IIRC, a grandfather clause in the new SAG contracts with a cutoff date, and I think LIS falls inside that date, so, and I am not a lawyer, but I think getting actors (and their estates) permission is more a kindness issue. I do think it's something worth researching further, a good entertainment lawyer could handle it.

But even if I'm totally wrong, do it anyway. See, my thinking is,under the umbrella of the property 'Lost in Space' the IA estate has the right to the intellectual property of 'Professor John Robinson' and 'Major Don West' et al, and you don't really NEED perfect reproductions of the actors faces. why? because sculpting a perfect likeness at 1/35 (or so) scale looks HORRIBLE. That level of detail is just not needed, as long as the faces have the correct overall 'shape' that's all that will matter, as people will key in more on the clothing than anything else. 

I'm not saying they have to be blank faced space zombies, but more like the generic faces of, say, 1/35 scale Tamiya military figures. 

Well, at least, that's my take. I hope it doesn't kill the thread.


----------



## Richard Baker

You have the figures (which in the silver spacesuits of comfy velour outfits) as an accessory group, or the hardware direction. I was thinking about the J-2's different extendable instruments from the top of the hull, campsite forcefield generator, fuel station, water distiller, B-9 on patrol, that sort of thing. Figures in the likenesses of the actors could be problematic, the hardware would be simpler to master and have no potential royaltiy questions.


----------



## jbond

My guess is that even if Moebius were inclined to do this, you'd be talking another 6-12 months after the release of the J2 by the time you got the project through the injection molded process, since this isn't even being planned at this stage--I assume everybody's cool with that kind of wait?


----------



## Steve H

jbond said:


> My guess is that even if Moebius were inclined to do this, you'd be talking another 6-12 months after the release of the J2 by the time you got the project through the injection molded process, since this isn't even being planned at this stage--I assume everybody's cool with that kind of wait?


Well, sure! I mean, I sure hope this wonderful looking J2 isn't going to be a one shot run! Call me crazy, but I like to think that if a kit is produced you KEEP IT AVAILABLE as long as you have the license. Run off another thousand or so every few months, depending on orders.

And with the comments long ago from the head man about reducing the overall licensing costs by producing several kits, it's only logical that there will be a Chariot and Space Pod scaled to the J2 kit. And THAT is your window for that diorama/add-on kit as I laid it out.


----------



## Antimatter

toyroy said:


> Henry,
> I'm sure you're familiar with the LiS pilot, and with Jim Key's launch site dioramas. Plus, you obviously have some graphics facility. How about making available a launchsite backdrop cyclorama? It'd be the best possible accessory to your launch pad!


Did Key ever produce anything he set out to do? http://www.customreplicas.com/24_j2.htm was updated 4 years ago.


----------



## Seaview

From the looks of things, that may have turned out to have been a "one-shot deal".
http://www.uncleodiescollectibles.com/html_lib/lis-dioramas/00131.html
However, now we all will have our opportunity for a beautiful Jupiter 2 of our own, and we won't have to spend 10-20K for it, either.


----------



## gareee

I've waited 50 years for a good sized jupiter 2 like this.. what would another 6 months be?


----------



## JPhil123

jbond said:


> My guess is that even if Moebius were inclined to do this, you'd be talking another 6-12 months after the release of the J2 by the time you got the project through the injection molded process, since this isn't even being planned at this stage--I assume everybody's cool with that kind of wait?


Hello,

While the upcoming Jupiter 2 is enough to deal with right now, and I am sure it will be a success, it would be fantastic to see some kind of followups: for example, some kid of accessories kit (something you might want in a crash site diorama such as equipment: force field unit, tables and chairs, hydroponic garden and so on). On-the-other hand, such a kit would need to be feasible and marketable. I would assume any followup will also depend on sales of the new Jupiter 2 model. I need to have Jupiter 2 more models, so my plan is to purchase at least 2 kits. It is a long time to December!

Jim


----------



## Antimatter

Seaview said:


> From the looks of things, that may have turned out to have been a "one-shot deal".
> http://www.uncleodiescollectibles.com/html_lib/lis-dioramas/00131.html
> However, now we all will have our opportunity for a beautiful Jupiter 2 of our own, and we won't have to spend 10-20K for it, either.


Kinda reminds me of.....I can't help it.........I'm sick......I must resist............ I CAN'T STOP!!!!!!!!!!! MUST POST...........

http://www.auroraplasticscorp.com/about_us.html


----------



## JPhil123

Ron Gross said:


> Jim,
> You're a class act, as always. Just tell me when you want to become a co-moderator on the other forum. I know, I know, I've been after you about this for years...


Hello, Ron...

Yes, you have. I know insufficient time is no real excuse, and I would love to be involved in some capacity in the future. Right now, the right people seem to be heavily involved in the forum process (and it is really a process in that there is an exchange of ideas taking place and interested parties listening, responding, and acting). You have a winning team in place, but in the future I would love to be involved. 

Thanks,
Jim


----------



## teslabe

Antimatter said:


> Kinda reminds me of.....I can't help it.........I'm sick......I must resist............ I CAN'T STOP!!!!!!!!!!! MUST POST...........
> 
> http://www.auroraplasticscorp.com/about_us.html


That was a good example of how bad it was in the past..... Thank you
Moebius for all the hard work you all have done.......:thumbsup::thumbsup:


----------



## Antimatter

teslabe said:


> That was a good example of how bad it was in the past..... Thank you
> Moebius for all the hard work you all have done.......:thumbsup::thumbsup:


Amen.


----------



## m jamieson

toyroy said:


> Resin bloop poo is always quality material. :lol:


No *duh*!! lol



*EDIT:* Please read the Help/TOS link above on every page here at HT. Substituting special characters is considered to be the same as using the original letters when "adult language" is used. Please know that I'm no prude - far from it! - but am simply giving a reminder of the standards that Hankster expects from us here as his guests. 

No harm, no foul so far as I'm concerned. Just please keep that in mind in the future.


----------



## DaDragon

*Wow!!!*

I just came over from the J2 Consolidated Threads.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by teslabe
> That was a good example of how bad it was in the past.....


Very true, but with nothing for comparison at the time, we were merely satisfied, not happy. Its only with hindsight we realise what we were missing.



> Thank you Moebius for all the hard work you all have done.......
> 
> 
> 
> Amen.
Click to expand...

Also from me, a big and sincere THANK YOU. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

_KOWABUNGA!!!_

Thanks also to Ron Goss for all his previous research on the J2, much of which is still available on Steve (CultTVman) Iverson's site.

Cheers,

Graham.


----------



## Ron Gross

DaDragon said:


> Thanks also to Ron Goss for all his previous research on the J2, much of which is still available on Steve (CultTVman) Iverson's site.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Graham.


Thanks very much for remembering. But perhaps it isn't as much of a past event as some might think. When I initially approached Frank about doing this kit, there was talk of a collaborative design effort between Gary and me. It soon became apparent that Gary's CAD skills would direct how the effort would proceed, as I would have had to sit there and hand draw everything all over again. Not very practical in today's day and age, I'm afraid, especially since I had other art work on the table at the time. He also had access to a copy of the original J2 hero miniature for scanning purposes, which is pretty hard to argue with. Add to that the fact that I was dying to see how close I had actually come with my own efforts more than a decade ago, and I wound up being quite pleased with the resulting overlay comparison.

Despite all of the above, Gary and I did exchange a whole crap load full of e-mails during the design process. More importantly, I wasn't the only one. He wasn't shy about asking for input from other people who are known to be key players on this subject. Bill Hedges comes to mind, and I'll let Gary list who the others were if he is so inclined. The bottom line is that this kit will be the culmination of the minds of the most knowledgeable people out there, and Gary managed to tie it all up masterfully well.
Ron G.


----------



## toyroy

Ron Gross said:


> (Gary K) wasn't shy about asking for input from other people who are known to be key players on this subject. Bill Hedges comes to mind...The bottom line is that this kit will be the culmination of the minds of the most knowledgeable people out there, and Gary managed to tie it all up masterfully well.


One of the very best things about the Polar Lights kit is all the detailed Jupiter 2 material that you made freely available, including your series of articles on why the kit is the way it is, and how a modeler can improve it. I'm sure that after I open up my Moebius kit, I'll reread all of it!

The same goes for all Gary and company have offered about the new kit. Thank you, and please give us more!


----------



## g_xii

m jamieson said:


> Well I'm glad someone laughed at my resin Bloop dropping idea....I was afraid someone was thinking I was serious and try and beat me to the punch on that aftermarket sales bonanza! lol


I heard someone was going to make a photo-etch version.... :freak:

--H


----------



## toyroy

toyroy said:


> Henry,
> I'm sure you're familiar with the LiS pilot, and with Jim Key's launch site dioramas...How about making available a launchsite backdrop cyclorama?...





g_xii said:


> I'll see what I can do -- I've been thinking of it for a while now...


Henry,
To follow up, I just want to say that I think the pilot's launch site backdrop was really effective, and memorable. On the other hand, I had forgotten that Key's backdrop was very different. It's the only model version I'm aware of, and I like the idea. But personally, I'd prefer a backdrop as close to the pilot version as possible.


----------



## toyroy

Y3a said:


> Because the original mechanics are gone now, we will NEVER know exactly how it was set up. I reverse engineered some aspects of the gear system from what hints and components that are still left. The gear had to be spring loaded as the pullys and such exert the pull on lowering the gear. Probably the same is true of the footpad doors. The sequence for lowering the gear is a two step process. First the footpad doors must all open up to the point of clearing the hole, and getting to a position where all 3 doors being at the open position allow the legs to drop. it looks like a cable went around the inside through several pullys and that the footpad doors and the legs were all pulled by this cable. Springs would raise the legs and push the pad doors shut as the cable went the other way. The cable was probably powered by a motor and gearbox for torque. One take-up spool could wind the cable up and a spring on the opposite side would pull it back. Alternative method could have been a loop of cable and the gearbox moved the cable both directions, but still with those springs on the doors and legs. You can see outlines on the inside of the Hero of the pullys, and the pully wheels in the "A" frames above gear wells as well as on the arm of the Landing gear leg.
> 
> The Hero was supported by a 50 foot mike/camera boom and a seldom mentioned 'control box' worked the gear. The lights and spinning effects were powered by motorcycle batteries in the model. The support wires carried power to the gear. A BIG counterweight was on the back of that boom, so the models weight was offset by the counterweight, so the gear could have lifted the model up, but could not support the model off the boom.


I think that the gear was built plenty strong enough to support the model; it looks to me to be made from sheet steel. Watching "The Derelict" touchdown, the gear gives a bit. I suspect the hero gear was made _not_ to lock, so as to simulate the shock absorber effect.


----------



## m jamieson

g_xii said:


> I heard someone was going to make a photo-etch version.... :freak:
> 
> --H


Ok,ok...well I have this other idea! A scale decal for Wills cabin of a pin-up centerfold of a pair of "bubble headed boobies" !!! Nice huh! hey...he's 12, curious and lost in space with his *sisters* for crying out loud!! Uhh.. oh yeah, thats right...no lower deck...well it was a stupid idea after all!


----------



## m jamieson

I know I will have at least two versions...the one I build relatively quickly for that instant gratification feel (if one would call about 2 months instant!) and the 'Sistine Chapel' version. "You know..the one you do a Michaelangelo on, and it takes years to finish. All the while your friends are playing the role of the pope in that Charlton Heston movie with the "when will it be done?" lines. "When it's finished!" was Heston's response as would be mine.


----------



## Vardor

toyroy said:


> Resin bloop poo is always quality material. :lol:


I was just planning on stretching some styrene sprue, and cutting to size...


----------



## psquinn

Hi everyone!!

New to the site, and when I heard of the new Moebis Jupiter 2 I could not believe it. 40 years of waiting for a fantastic Jupiter. After seeing the incredible detail on the Chariot and Pod, and the pictures of the prototypes, this will really be a great verson of the ship. Thank you Moebius for your quality and attention to detail!! 
December seems faraway, but I think this one is worth the wait!!

Dave


----------



## Richard Baker

psquinn said:


> Hi everyone!!
> 
> New to the site, and when I heard of the new Moebis Jupiter 2 I could not believe it. 40 years of waiting for a fantastic Jupiter. After seeing the incredible detail on the Chariot and Pod, and the pictures of the prototypes, this will really be a great verson of the ship. Thank you Moebius for your quality and attention to detail!!
> December seems faraway, but I think this one is worth the wait!!
> 
> Dave


Welcome to the forum!

Yes- December is a while away but at least this way I know I can afford it with my Christmas bonus- I try to get one fun thing each year with it and there is no question about this one...


----------



## Y3a

toyroy said:


> I think that the gear was built plenty strong enough to support the model; it looks to me to be made from sheet steel. Watching "The Derelict" touchdown, the gear gives a bit. I suspect the hero gear was made _not_ to lock, so as to simulate the shock absorber effect.


I think the nature of steel cables and pullys is that when you do put the weight on them they will tighten up a little.


----------



## Lloyd Collins

Any more photos, or drawings to share of the model?


----------



## toyroy

toyroy said:


> I think that the gear was built plenty strong enough to support the model; it looks to me to be made from sheet steel. Watching "The Derelict" touchdown, the gear gives a bit. I suspect the hero gear was made _not_ to lock, so as to simulate the shock absorber effect.





Y3a said:


> I think the nature of steel cables and pullys is that when you do put the weight on them they will tighten up a little.


I'm suggesting that the upper end of the struts slid freely in a bushing. There was no locking latch. Because of the overhead suspension, it would have been an unnecessary complication.


----------



## Y3a

Maybe no latch as far as the 'hydraulic struts go, but the gearbox that pulled everything open/down is keeping it in that position. when the motor cable/motor loop of chain(pick whichever you think it might have been)was unpowered, the gearbox and non spinning motor makes a latch of sorts.


----------



## MightyMax

I have read most of this thread. I am excited just like most of you guys about this. I have a Monogram FS and PL Seaview. I wasn't gonna buy the new kits just to upgrade. I finally bought a FS and upon opening the box was mesmerized at the beauty of it. So much so I almost tripped over my own feet to order up a Seaview. Now I have the PL Jupiter 2 and I am thrilled to have it! The tone of many posts seems to be that PL did no one any favors by releasing a J-2 and this kind of saddens me.

So first off I would like to thank everyone involved with the PL kit, a big THANK YOU, for giving me the opportunity to have a J-2 kit that was light years ahead of what came before. I also would like to give an even bigger Thank You to the Moebius team for giving us another J-2 that is gonna be fantastic! 
Also thank you Moebius for all the great Irwin Allen stuff you have done thus far.

Max Bryant


----------



## toyroy

Y3a said:


> Maybe no latch as far as the 'hydraulic struts go, but the gearbox that pulled everything open/down is keeping it in that position. when the motor cable/motor loop of chain(pick whichever you think it might have been)was unpowered, the gearbox and non spinning motor makes a latch of sorts.


That's true, of course. I was just thinking about the redundancy of the hoisting crane stop corresponding to the touchdown position. Never mind!...:drunk:


----------



## starseeker

Gary K said:


> The interior reflects the 3rd season version of the upper deck set, which didn't have lighted roof beams. Deleting the roof beams saves tooling costs and provides better access to the interior, but adding scratch-built roof beams should be very straightforward.
> 
> 
> Gary


The J2 began the 3d season with the lighted ceiling beams. They may have been wild to facilitate lighting, but they were there in publicity photos and in Condemned of Space. When they weren't, the soffit panel was lighted.


----------



## Gary K

starseeker said:


> The J2 began the 3d season with the lighted ceiling beams. They may have been wild to facilitate lighting, but they were there in publicity photos and in Condemned of Space. When they weren't, the soffit panel was lighted.


The ceiling beams were wild, and they disappeared for good when LIS was moved to a different soundstage early in the 3rd season. The new soundstage didn't have a pit below the ladder & elevator, so the elevator could only descend a foot or two, to the stage floor. The opening in the floor for the ladder disappeared, too. Because of this, the cast had to enter & leave the flight deck via the rear doorway.

Check out this screen cap from the last episode of the series, "Junkyard in Space". There's no opening in the floor below the ladder, and you can clearly see the cables that will momentarily pull the Robot across the floor. Also, you can see where they sprayed a dulling agent on several spots on the Astrogator's dome to reduce the glare from overhead lights.

Gary


----------



## kdaracal

*hulu.com*



starseeker said:


> The J2 began the 3d season with the lighted ceiling beams. They may have been wild to facilitate lighting, but they were there in publicity photos and in Condemned of Space. When they weren't, the soffit panel was lighted.


I found a wonderful and quick resource for looking up and watching episodes quick. Go to www.hulu.com and search the episode you need without having to boot up the dvd player. It's quick and free and you can stay on HobbyTalk at the same time in another tab...

Kinley:wave:

Lots of great interior/exterior shots in "Condemned". The beam lights glow rhythmically off/on. Very cool effect.


----------



## m jamieson

I remember even as a kid watching the cast suddenly come dashing out of that back corridor and I wondered "where the hell does that go? and why haven't they ever shown us some back room or stairway before?" Thankfully my mother explained that it came from the 20th century fox lunch-room or I wouldn't have been able to sleep that night!


----------



## Dar

MightyMax said:


> Now I have the PL Jupiter 2 and I am thrilled to have it! The tone of many posts seems to be that PL did no one any favors by releasing a J-2 and this kind of saddens me.



You would be wrong in that assumption Max. The PL J2 is very much loved. The stuff you have heard some posters discussing here mostly pretains to the interior. They are not knocking the entire model. The PL J2 was so popular it has had accurizing parts released thru most of the last ten years. An updated astrogator was just released a year ago as well as some more decals. Its a highly sought after model.


----------



## Steve244

kdaracal said:


> I found a wonderful and quick resource for looking up and watching episodes quick. Go to www.hulu.com and search the episode you need without having to boot up the dvd player. It's quick and free and you can stay on HobbyTalk at the same time in another tab...
> 
> Kinley:wave:
> 
> Lots of great interior/exterior shots in "Condemned". The beam lights glow rhythmically off/on. Very cool effect.


:freak: Watch at your own risk. Some things are better left to memory...


----------



## MightyMax

Dar said:


> You would be wrong in that assumption Max. The PL J2 is very much loved. The stuff you have heard some posters discussing here mostly pretains to the interior. They are not knocking the entire model. The PL J2 was so popular it has had accurizing parts released thru most of the last ten years. An updated astrogator was just released a year ago as well as some more decals. Its a highly sought after model.


I know this, but it just seems that with the Moebius announcement the PL kit was gettin no love. I keep reading this aint right that was a compromise... yada yada yada. 
Well maybe so, but PL did us proud and Moebius will as well!:thumbsup:

Max Bryant


----------



## gareee

I loved the PL kit... I have both a chrome and regular version.. BUT I'd gladly replace them with the new larger Moebius version.


----------



## toyroy

kdaracal said:


> ...The beam lights glow rhythmically off/on. Very cool effect.


Agreed. But it looks like they were a production nightmare in the pilot, since they reflect off all the freezing tubes.


----------



## toyroy

MightyMax said:


> ...it just seems that with the Moebius announcement the PL kit was gettin no love...


Y'know, statements like this used to cause me expensive technical problems. But not any more! Now, with clear plastic keyboard vomit protectors, I'm prepared! :thumbsup:


----------



## Capt. Krik

I'm a big fan of the PL Jupiter 2. Sure, there are a number of compromises on the kit to help keep costs down but it's still a decent kit. Before this kit there was no styrene injected kit of this famous spacecraft. 
Tom Lowe took the chance that there were still plenty of modelers that wanted a kit of this decades old ship. I think all of us fans of the J2 owes PL a debt of gratitude for producing this model. 

I'm anxious to see Moebius' take on the Jupiter 2. I'm sure it will be on the same level of detail and quality as their other Irwin Allen kits.


----------



## Gemini1999

Capt. Krik said:


> I'm a big fan of the PL Jupiter 2. Sure, there are a number of compromises on the kit to help keep costs down but it's still a decent kit. Before this kit there was no styrene injected kit of this famous spacecraft.
> Tom Lowe took the chance that there were still plenty of modelers that wanted a kit of this decades old ship. I think all of us fans of the J2 owes PL a debt of gratitude for producing this model.
> 
> I'm anxious to see Moebius' take on the Jupiter 2. I'm sure it will be on the same level of detail and quality as their other Irwin Allen kits.


I'm in agreement with that. I went out and bought the PL Jupiter 2 as soon as it was available. I bought a light kit for it in advance, but after buying the kit, you could definitely see that PL made some cost cutting decisions, which somewhat compromised the kit itself. Now given the fact that there was no mass produced retail version of the J2 available to the modeling community and fans of LiS, finally getting the kit (compromises and all) was a pretty big deal. Going over to the CultTVMan website shows quite a few excellent examples of people that overcame the kit's shortcomings with eye popping results. There's no getting around the potential that the PL kit has in the right hands.

Now, being faced with a larger, more accurate kit, you can't help but be impressed by that. From what I've seen so far, you could pretty much build the Moebius kit straight out of the box and have a really excellent display model. If there wasn't a market for a better version of the J2, then I'm sure that Moebius wouldn't be making the effort.

Bryan


----------



## Ron Gross

Capt. Krik said:


> I'm a big fan of the PL Jupiter 2. Sure, there are a number of compromises on the kit to help keep costs down but it's still a decent kit. Before this kit there was no styrene injected kit of this famous spacecraft.
> Tom Lowe took the chance that there were still plenty of modelers that wanted a kit of this decades old ship. I think all of us fans of the J2 owes PL a debt of gratitude for producing this model.
> 
> I'm anxious to see Moebius' take on the Jupiter 2. I'm sure it will be on the same level of detail and quality as their other Irwin Allen kits.


Well, if someone is going to give the PL J2 a proper send off, I guess it should be me. Perhaps not a full retirement, because I'm quite sure that there are still unbuilt kits out there that will one day be finished, so let's call it a semi-retirement. I will share with everyone that being involved with that project and having my art work on the box cover was one of the highlights of my life. Interacting with other modelers and fans of the show for more than a decade as a result of the experience was equally rewarding. Obviously, that activity slowed down somewhat as time went on, but it never really ended.

And so, in partial send-off, and as a token of my personal appreciation for everything the experience did for me, I am posting a cleaner image of the original box art in uncropped/unprocessed form. This image should be quite a bit better than anything currently on line. As you can see, it looks quite a bit different than what actually wound up on the box itself.

So now the new era begins, and although my involvement this time around is a little different, it promises to be just as exciting as it was more than a decade ago. And in case anyone is wondering, Frank really is as cool to work with as most people would assume.


----------



## Dave Metzner

The PL kit was designed to fit a production budget and more impoortantly to meet a targeted retail price.
That retail price was far less than the projected price for the new Moebius kit.

I know how and why compromises were made on the Pl kit - I was the guy making those compromises!
Given the budget and target pricing constraints involved I think that the PL kit came out pretty well...
I know that we sold every one we produced! And we produced allot of them!

Dave


----------



## Ron Gross

Dave,
I certainly never complained, and as far as I know, complaints in general were few and far between. We made the best out of what we had, and it was a ground breaking and long awaited product at the time. As I have said so many times, despite the compromises, the PL J2 was far better than anything Aurora might have done in the '60's. In retrospect, I'm almost glad they took a pass on it.


----------



## kdaracal

*Polar Lights J2*

I absolutely loved the PL J2! Thanks to that old team for all their efforts. :wave:


----------



## MightyMax

Dave Metzner said:


> The PL kit was designed to fit a production budget and more impoortantly to meet a targeted retail price.
> That retail price was far less than the projected price for the new Moebius kit.
> 
> I know how and why compromises were made on the Pl kit - I was the guy making those compromises!
> Given the budget and target pricing constraints involved I think that the PL kit came out pretty well...
> I know that we sold every one we produced! And we produced allot of them!
> 
> Dave


 
Like I said Dave. I would like to say a Big Thank You for everyone involved in the production of the PL Jupiter 2. I bought half a dozen of them. 4 regular 2 chrome. I recently traded my Chrome for a Moebius FS-1 and recently sold off another for some badly needed hobby funds. I still have 4 left and a bunch of the Johhny Lightning diecast and poor mans chaser lights (shirt lights) to go along with it. I also will eventually get the resin seats and landing pads for the detailed one I have planned in my head since it came out!
BTW did I say THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:wave:


With all the BSG stuff and big J-2 Moebius has coming I need a bigger paper route!

Max Bryant


----------



## DinoMike

Well, I've had the PL J2 in my stash, but never got around to building it.

The advent of the Moebius J2 now gives me another option... 

Moebius kit: Built full-hull.

PL kit: Crash site diorama.

Best of both worlds! :dude:


----------



## woof359

the part that well intrest me the most is how the foot pads, struts and support well be made to connect in the main kit, while the PL kits wasnt all that bad, the sky Hook pads made it look so much better, I just never had the talent to make the swivle where the sturt and leg came together


----------



## Capt. Krik

Dave Metzner said:


> The PL kit was designed to fit a production budget and more impoortantly to meet a targeted retail price.
> That retail price was far less than the projected price for the new Moebius kit.
> 
> I know how and why compromises were made on the Pl kit - I was the guy making those compromises!
> Given the budget and target pricing constraints involved I think that the PL kit came out pretty well...
> I know that we sold every one we produced! And we produced allot of them!
> 
> Dave


No complaints from me, Dave. I always praised Polar Lights for producing the kit years after the series had gone off the air. Right out of the box the PL kit still builds up into a respectable replica of the J2. With a little work it can be made into a very impressive model. My hats off to you and Tom and Ron for bringing us this kit.
Besides, for me at least, half the fun was doing the modifications to correct the shortcomings of the kit. I still think it's a great kit.

Ron, your art for the box looks spectacular. I have to be honest I was never impressed with the box art. Now that it can be seen, as you say "unprocessed", it looks fantastic. It's a shame that's not the way it looks on the box.


----------



## flyingfrets

Whatever the Polar J2's shortcomings, it's still a much loved kit and one of the greatest models ever made.

I suppose the only comparison I could make is the way we all love the old Aurora kits. We recognized the inaccuracies and the limitations of the styrene medium, but we love 'em all the same. That doesn't prevent us from being awed by model kits of the same subjects made by today's standards. We love those too, for the correct details, ease of assembly, size, etc.

I'm all antsy waiting for the new Moebius J2 myself, but the Polar kit will always be near & dear to me. 

I have way more than one picture of my wife...so why not more than one version of the Jupiter 2?


----------



## Seaview

flyingfrets said:


> I have way more than one picture of my wife...so why not more than one version of the Jupiter 2?


 
Therein lies the beauty of the Jupiter 2; you can make THREE different versions! Landing Gear Down, In-flight or Crashsite dio. :thumbsup:


----------



## toyroy

Gary K,
If I may ask, how did you loft the hull lines from your hero cast?


----------



## Richard Baker

As one who wished Aurora had released this kit back in the sizties, I am eternally grateful for you effort in getting it into production. It has always been a favorite kit because of the way it was created- a personal project trhat made it big. The resolution to the lower deck was inspired. I wanted to enhance the interior of my build but never had the time to do so and since I wanted it on the shelf regardless it is temporarily assembled as an outer shell on the landing gear for now. The inerior pieces along with a chrome kit are in my stash of stuff and I will never part with them.
I look upon the PL J-2 and the new Moebius kit the same way I see the A-FS and the Moebius FS- one matched the rtech of the era and did a damn fine job- the newer Moebius kits are the twenty-first century versions with all the research, time and attention to detail money can buy. Each fits a certain niche I am honored to meet you aquaintance, even if it is through the internet...

.


----------



## Ron Gross

Richard Baker said:


> As one who wished Aurora had released this kit back in the sizties, I am eternally grateful for you effort in getting it into production. It has always been a favorite kit because of the way it was created- a personal project trhat made it big. The resolution to the lower deck was inspired. I wanted to enhance the interior of my build but never had the time to do so and since I wanted it on the shelf regardless it is temporarily assembled as an outer shell on the landing gear for now. The inerior pieces along with a chrome kit are in my stash of stuff and I will never part with them.
> I look upon the PL J-2 and the new Moebius kit the same way I see the A-FS and the Moebius FS- one matched the rtech of the era and did a damn fine job- the newer Moebius kits are the twenty-first century versions with all the research, time and attention to detail money can buy. Each fits a certain niche I am honored to meet you aquaintance, even if it is through the internet...
> 
> .


Richard,
I think your way of looking at the comparison is right on the mark. The PL J2 has a unique place in history, because it was the first injection molded offering, as well as the fact that the time frame corresponded to the release of the LIS movie (not that I want to dwell on that too much). It was a very special time with a host of peripheral activity that all came together just the right way. And if you were addressing me with your last thought, I thank you very much for that kind sentiment.


----------



## bert model maker

I also want to thank you Ron, for doing all you did & all you do, to bring the Jupiter 2 to life and make it available to us as a model kit a few years ago so we can each have our very own. Without all of your dedication, effort, & input, i don't think we would have ever seen a Jupiter 2 model kit. Thanks Ron for all of the research you have done over the years.
Bert


----------



## Ron Gross

model maker said:


> I also want to thank you Ron, for doing all you did & all you do, to bring the Jupiter 2 to life and make it available to us as a model kit a few years ago so we can each have our very own. Without all of your dedication, effort, & input, i don't think we would have ever seen a Jupiter 2 model kit. Thanks Ron for all of the research you have done over the years.
> Bert


Thanks, Bert, the guy who has the coolest avatar of anyone here. It almost makes me want to pull a "Stunt" and ask "if I could use it for only a few days...just until..." Aw hell, I guess I don't remember it all. But I'm sure you get the idea.:lol:


----------



## liskorea317

*I Smell A Big Hit!*

This kit will be a BIG hit! It already is with me-I plan on buying at least 2 kits for myself. I've gotta finish my PL kits quickly, get them on ebay and make room for these puppies!
Mike


----------



## fortress

I think that this kit will offer some of the best 
subjects for aftermarket companies to chose 
from.

I can see thngs like a lighting kit but , figures, a clear upper Level Display,
top, Retractable landing gear, Space Pod bay/w Mini-Space Pod in scale.

Do we dare say a lower level add-on kit???

Hey anything is possible.


Fortress


----------



## m jamieson

You can say it...but unless the Robinsons shrink three feet between the upper and lower level they will be on their hands and knee's getting around.


----------



## m jamieson

How about a Gemini 12 lower hull profile and fusion core for aftermarket? Then the upper hull view-ports and interior can be scratch (or add on kit) modified to match.


----------



## Richard Baker

And the Space Pod cannot fit unless it changes scale also-

.


----------



## Dar

m jamieson said:


> You can say it...but unless the Robinsons shrink three feet between the upper and lower level they will be on their hands and knee's getting around.



Agreed. Someone would have to make a rescaled upper level to allow a lower level to fit. Its to much work I think. I also doubt a smaller scaled upper level will have the type of detail the one with the moebius kit is going to come with The PL J2 did a good job of rescaling and making a two level jupiter work. So If someone really wants a nice two level J2 the PL fits the bill. There have been some very nice representations of a two level J2 with the PL and it pretty much works. The one level Moebius is going to give us detail for an upper level that we have never seen before. I am very excited about that. It going to be so much fun to build.

I will bet though someone comes out with a nice photo insert that you could place at the lower level window if you chose to build it open. I would definitely think this would be a good solution for someone who would want to have a two level interior represented in their model.:thumbsup:



As I have said numerous times if the J2 was rescaled completely, it could all work.(There have been some great depictions of a two level J2. Earl Hooks Jr. has a great depiction in his J2 Specifications guide) Afterall the show was never consistant in all its depictions so a model that made it all work (except the one shot a 3rd level of course, dont want to ever see that. :lolwould be no less accurate than anything else. It would look like the J2 but the levels would have to be rescaled, the exterior hatch would have to be moved up slightly to allow change to the floor lines. The overall size of the ship would be bigger in contrast to the scale of the crew. Maybe one day we will see a nice concept of this realized. It would be a fun kit no doubt. Not holding my breath of course.:lol:


----------



## m jamieson

I often find myself trying to compromise with what I just 'accepted' at ten years old and what logic makes sense forty years later. "Who built that damn pod after two seasons of it not being there..Will?...and with what?" So many unanswered questions.."why did the Robinson's keep letting Doctor Smith wander off with their son? Didn't they care that at the first sign of danger he would become a human shield!" Suspension of disbelief is a good thing for 60's tv shows! I just wish I could do it as easily after all this time has passed...like just last night I was wondering "On Gilligan's Island...every time they planned a rescue attempt, why they just didn't send Gilligan off to spank his grenade throwing monkey!"


----------



## Dar

^^^:lol::lol: Gilligans Island of course was more tongue in cheek than LIS. 

Yeah the space pod thing was always wierd. I can only assume they did indeed construct one. It wasnt out of the realm of possibilities of course. The robot demonstrated a few times that he could replicate non mechanical parts so they would have no shortage of building materials.


----------



## m jamieson

It's always a compromise... we argue constantly about proper hull contours down to the degree..the landing gear, the view-port positions..but if we had to rescale it so the freezing tubes are eight feet apart instead of two or the interior wall panels were twice as long to fit an 80 foot diameter J2 just so the two decks can line up and Irwin's world makes sense (now that's a stretch!) ..then why not compromise the hull shape to 'fat and squat' and it would fit that way too!


----------



## John P

Dar said:


> ^^^:lol::lol: Gilligans Island of course was more tongue in cheek than LIS.



Oh yeah?


----------



## SteveR

Just wow.


----------



## Dar

^^^^^Just wow??? Whats just wow???:lol:






m jamieson said:


> It's always a compromise... we argue constantly about proper hull contours down to the degree..the landing gear, the view-port positions..but if we had to rescale it so the freezing tubes are eight feet apart instead of two or the interior wall panels were twice as long to fit an 80 foot diameter J2 just so the two decks can line up and Irwin's world makes sense (now that's a stretch!) ..then why not compromise the hull shape to 'fat and squat' and it would fit that way too!



Sure. But the exterior look of the ship has to remian the same of course for themost part. But it would be a cool alternate to have a reasonable scaled J2. The decks wouldnt even have to be stretched that much. There could more space reserved behind the walls. Again, it would be just a fun concept, nothing more nothing less.:thumbsup:


----------



## m jamieson

Dar said:


> ^^^^^Just wow??? Whats just wow???:lol:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure. But the exterior look of the ship has to remian the same of course for themost part. But it would be a cool alternate to have a reasonable scaled J2. The decks wouldnt even have to be stretched that much. There could more space reserved behind the walls. Again, it would be just a fun concept, nothing more nothing less.:thumbsup:


True!... a good scratchbuild challenge for the Moebius J2 builder who wants to go that route.


----------



## Dar

m jamieson said:


> True!... a good scratchbuild challenge for the Moebius J2 builder who wants to go that route.



Not me though.:lol: My scratch build expericence is limited to say the least.


----------



## m jamieson

and by the way...I think I read some where that it was some 'Cosmic Teamsters' who built the space pod! Will and the Robot did supervise some, and Dr. Smith...he just smiled that wicked smile of his and watched. lol


----------



## toyroy

m jamieson said:


> ...why did the Robinson's keep letting Doctor Smith wander off with their son? Didn't they care that at the first sign of danger he would become a human shield!...


Did you forget that it was always Will who ended up saving Smith's bacon? 

It would be cool to see a cast switch between Gilligan's Island and Lost in Space. :drunk:


----------



## toyroy

Dar said:


> ...My scratch build expericence is limited to say the least...


You _did_ build a pie pan Jupiter 2 as a kid, didn't you?


----------



## Gary K

toyroy said:


> Gary K,
> If I may ask, how did you loft the hull lines from your hero cast?


Here's a simplified explanation of how I measured the contours of my casting of the 4-footer's hull. I started by lofting contours from the hull, using my plastic, 18" contour gauge. Since the radius of the hull is 24", I was able to measure the upper & lower profiles with two contours each, and the significant overlap between the contours allowed me to combine them accurately and create one-piece upper & lower profiles. To verify each contour, I traced them onto stiff cardboard & held the templates against the upper & lower hulls. 

After I had two perfect profiles, I held them in place on the fiberglass hull, then taped & stapled their ends together. Now I had the complete upper & lower profiles, and one end of the line between the upper & lower hull halves. I still needed to determine where to draw the other end of that line, somewhere along the vertical axis of the model. I measured the thickness of the hull through its center. Then I turned the model upside-down on my drafting table, leveled it, and measured the height of the outer rim above the table. I repeated this process with the model rightside-up. By combining these three measurements, I knew where the other end of that line was.

Next, I marked the various measurements onto a large sheet of gridded paper, laid the templates on the paper, and traced the profile of the hull. Finally, I had the drawing scanned at Office Depot, then brought it into Autocad, where I could trace it. Hope this explanation makes some sense!

Gary


----------



## m jamieson

It would be cool to see a cast switch between Gilligan's Island and Lost in Space. :drunk:[/QUOTE]

Whatever your drinking..I'll take one half as strong! lol
Of course in a switch with BSG "pretty..handsome..Dr.Smith" would have been out the airlock!..I think for that matter, so would Gilligan. "I said OPEN the launch bays for the vipers..not close them!....GILLIGAAAAN!!!"


----------



## MitchPD3

Now this just sucks......I haven't touched a model in over a year, about a hundred of them gathering dust in my shop. Now this comes along. I know I won't have time to work on it but I'll have to get it just because it looks so damned good!

Curse you Moebius!!


----------



## toyroy

Gary K said:


> ...I started by lofting contours from the hull, using my plastic, 18" contour gauge...


Aha! So _that's_ what they call that tool they use in Detroit to loft the lines from their full-scale clay car prototypes! Your explanation makes perfect sense, Gary. Thank you.


----------



## Jaruemalak

Dave Metzner said:


> The PL kit was designed to fit a production budget and more impoortantly to meet a targeted retail price.
> That retail price was far less than the projected price for the new Moebius kit.
> 
> I know how and why compromises were made on the Pl kit - I was the guy making those compromises!
> Given the budget and target pricing constraints involved I think that the PL kit came out pretty well...
> I know that we sold every one we produced! And we produced allot of them!
> 
> Dave


Dave, I have two of the PL J2's, one still in the box, and I love them both! I'm sure I'll love the Moebius J2 as well! Heck, I still love my old Aurora flying sub kits... and I love the Mobeius kit! 

The PL kit was something I'd waited for since I was a kid! And if Aurora HAD tackled the J2 back in the 60's, I doubt it would have been any where near the quality of the PL kit. I'd be willing to bet it would have been no more than 9 inches around, tops. You could have removed the top to see an interior made from 12 to 15 pieces at most. (Who am I kidding... at the time, it would have been the coolest thing I'd owned!) 

I have nothing but affection for the PL kit. And I can't wait for the Mobeius kit. 

Fickle little jerk, aren't I?


----------



## Jaruemalak

toyroy said:


> It would be cool to see a cast switch between Gilligan's Island and Lost in Space. :drunk:


Funny you should say that. YEARS ago, a friend of mine worked in a local television station, and during one of his lull times, he took a black and white Lost In Space promo film (2 or 3 minutes) and edited it down on video so that it perfectly fit the theme to Gilligan's Island! I wish I still had a copy; it was hilarious!


----------



## Ron Gross

Gary K said:


> Here's a simplified explanation of how I measured the contours of my casting of the 4-footer's hull...


Gary,
This sounds like a very innovative and worthwhile undertaking. Judging from the profile/cut away plan you posted previously, the result was well worth the effort.


----------



## Gary K

Ron Gross said:


> Gary,
> This sounds like a very innovative and worthwhile undertaking. Judging from the profile/cut away plan you posted previously, the result was well worth the effort.


Thanks for the compliments! Like I've said before, I'd really be interested in seeing a model of the J2 based on the studio plans of the 4 & 10-foot models, since it would be distinct from the "as-built" version. The thickness of the "as-designed" lower hull would be much closer to the thickness of the upper hull. Maybe someday....

Gary


----------



## g_xii

Dar said:


> ... Afterall the show was never consistant in all its depictions so a model that made it all work (except the one shot a 3rd level of course, dont want to ever see that. :lolwould be no less accurate than anything else.


You mean there will be no room in the Moebius J2 kit for this???:


----------



## Dar

g_xii said:


> You mean there will be no room in the Moebius J2 kit for this???:


:lol:Yeah. Even as a kid I tried to tell myself that offscreen Wil and Dr.Smith ran back up to the first level and than went down another ladder so they were really on the second level. I mean afterall we didnt see them go down that lader. I tired to convince myself that the power core was tucked away behind the lower level walls somewhere.:tongue::lol:


----------



## Seaview

Enough about the "power core"! That's all you guys ever yak about! (Naselly voice) "Power core this, power core that", PHOOEY!
Why doesn't anybody ever mention that warehouse full of (obviously empty) boxes that Smith and Will stumble through to GET to the power core access ladder in the first place????? At least that storeroom explained where Dr. Smith got his endless supply of wine barrels, pith helmets, art supplies, tennis rackets and conveniently themed costumes!!! :drunk:
I've loved that show my whole life, but that was something I've been wondering about since 1968!


----------



## JeffG

Dar said:


> ^^^:lol::lol: Gilligans Island of course was more tongue in cheek than LIS.


Not sure about that. I don't recall seeing any 6 foot tall carrots with a face poking out of it on Gilligan's Island!


----------



## Ron Gross

In case anyone is interested, we are now well over 1000 posts on the subject of the J2 (this thread plus the "consolidated" J2 thread combined).


----------



## Zorro

Ron Gross said:


> In case anyone is interested, we are now well over 1000 posts on the subject of the J2 (this thread plus the "consolidated" J2 thread combined).


_Obviously_, someone is interested!


----------



## m jamieson

It looks like there will be plenty of space around the periphery of the new Jupiter 2 model to construct some storerooms. After all, no self-respecting space pioneers would show up at alpha centauri without a badminton set and enough costumes to put on an off,off,off,off...Broadway show!


----------



## Seaview

Zorro said:


> _Obviously_, someone is interested!


So you're saying that, in 1966, Aurora Plastics Corp. of West Hampsted were (GASP) mistaken in their assumption?
GOOD HEAVENS!!! :lol:


----------



## toyroy

Gary K,
I sent you a PM.


----------



## robiwon

Ron, can you imagine how many posts there will be before the kit is finally released? This may well turn out to be one of the longest running threads on the board!


----------



## JohnGuard

g_xii said:


> You mean there will be no room in the Moebius J2 kit for this???:




just how big would the J2 have to be if we include the powercore and all the other interiour sets??


----------



## JeffG

It would have to be radically different. If not in overall shape at least, it certainly would have to be much, much larger in size. Especially with the lower deck. Taking into account the walls curving upwards leaves you very little flat floor space. Plus, the Chariot is somewhere down there (lol)? I don't think so! As for the power core (which on the full size mockup appears to be little more than a foot or so tall!), I remember even as a kid, I hated that 'interior' set. It always looked to me like they had an hour to build it and they just used whatever they found in the studio's storage rooms!

Having said that however, I still can't wait to get my hands on this kit. We fans are truly fortunate these days!


----------



## BlackbirdCD

JohnGuard said:


> just how big would the J2 have to be if we include the powercore and all the other interiour sets??


When you get the Moebius Jupiter 2, find an 18" wide PVC pipe.... cut a two foot length, and use it as an insert between the top and bottom shells. That might get you close, but it'll throw off the cherished profile a smidge...


----------



## Richard Baker

Monsters in Motion is taking orders for this kit now...
http://www.monstersinmotion.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/13817


----------



## xsavoie

We know that the dates are more or less accurate,but is the price estimate a good one.Can Moebius shed some light on this subject.I had a feeling that the price would rival the one of the Seaview.:hat:


----------



## toyroy

JohnGuard said:


> just how big would the J2 have to be if we include the powercore and all the other interiour sets??


It'd be "...miles long, with a maw that could swallow a dozen starships." 

Sorry. Just had to get that in there...


----------



## Jaruemalak

JeffG said:


> It would have to be radically different. If not in overall shape at least, it certainly would have to be much, much larger in size. Especially with the lower deck. Taking into account the walls curving upwards leaves you very little flat floor space. Plus, the Chariot is somewhere down there (lol)? I don't think so! As for the power core (which on the full size mockup appears to be little more than a foot or so tall!), I remember even as a kid, I hated that 'interior' set. It always looked to me like they had an hour to build it and they just used whatever they found in the studio's storage rooms!


I always figured that whole Power Core Deck was a part of kind of a "dream sequence" Will and Smith were going through while everything was going on. It was the only way I'd accept any of it!

I remember at least 15-20 years ago a company that printed sci-fi blueprints did a set of the J2, INCLUDING the third deck. It wouldn't have been so bad, but they decided to do a cutaway side view, showing all three decks, which made the J2 look like... like a fat football with a dome on top and fusion core on the bottom.


----------



## BruceDownunder

Richard Baker said:


> Monsters in Motion is taking orders for this kit now...
> http://www.monstersinmotion.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/13817


As are Tower Hobbies - and considerably cheaper then MIM too...
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXXRT3&P=7


----------



## teslabe

Just did a preorder for two from Tower Hobbies, can't beat the price......:thumbsup:


----------



## Seaview

I'll be pre-ordering from CultTVman; when you find a good, honest, reliable dealer, you stick with that dealer right to the end. That's just one of my many oft-repeated personal mottos. (Another one is, "can I finish your sandwich").


----------



## Steve CultTVman Iverson

Let me get caught up with all the Refit Enterprise orders and Wonderfest orders and I will get the new stuff up in the shop for preorder. I need a clone!

Steve


----------



## Dar

JeffG said:


> It would have to be radically different. If not in overall shape at least, it certainly would have to be much, much larger in size. Especially with the lower deck. Taking into account the walls curving upwards leaves you very little flat floor space. Plus, the Chariot is somewhere down there (lol)? I don't think so! As for the power core (which on the full size mockup appears to be little more than a foot or so tall!), I remember even as a kid, I hated that 'interior' set. It always looked to me like they had an hour to build it and they just used whatever they found in the studio's storage rooms!
> 
> Having said that however, I still can't wait to get my hands on this kit. We fans are truly fortunate these days!



Yeah if the ship were to include the one shot power core set it would be a pretty fat ship. If not included and just the two original levels, its a very dooable thing with little exterior modifications.:thumbsup:



Jaruemalak said:


> I always figured that whole Power Core Deck was a part of kind of a "dream sequence" Will and Smith were going through while everything was going on. It was the only way I'd accept any of it!
> 
> I remember at least 15-20 years ago a company that printed sci-fi blueprints did a set of the J2, INCLUDING the third deck. It wouldn't have been so bad, but they decided to do a cutaway side view, showing all three decks, which made the J2 look like... like a fat football with a dome on top and fusion core on the bottom.


\


Yeah I pretty much dismiss the power core level. It was only seen in one episode for a handful of minutes. There was another episode where john was in the engine room during the 3rd season. It was a small cramped room. It I was to scratch build an engine room/powercore it would be like that one.


----------



## m jamieson

Lets just say the writers had a mind-fart! So with no extra budget they just slid together some computer consoles from "Time Tunnel" some other junk found around the studio to resemble some glowing well that one might expect the girl from the movie 'The Ring' to come crawling out of...then add Irwin's patented black curtain infinity walls and "Voila" a power core 'set' for less than three hundred bucks! 
And of course a nightmare for all those that think it's "canon" and has to be included in any further Jupiter 2 designs over the next forty years!


----------



## Lloyd Collins

I am taking up money, to have Steve cloned. Come on! He needs our help.


----------



## toyroy

BruceDownunder said:


> As are Tower Hobbies - and considerably cheaper then MIM too...
> http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXXRT3&P=7


And now we know the Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price(MSRP): $109.99 I presume most local hobby shops in the U.S. will try to fetch that price.


----------



## m jamieson

I was eleven during that third season and for a kid brought up on the Outer Limits and Twilight Zone..I could "buy into" the always unseen 'deutronium sucking magnetic- plasma-field star drive with rocket thrusters and whatever techno-babble the writers came up with! But when they did a third level power core with 20 foot ceilings...this eleven year olds ability to suspend disbelief...was suspended. I felt like I had just used my orphan Annie decoder to come up with "Drink more Ovaltine" like the kid in 'a Christmas Story'!

Still, strangely enough, when I visited Irwin Allen's childhood home years later....the interior was actually three times larger than the outside of the house!! "Wow...I thought, so THIS is where he got it!"


----------



## starseeker

Gary K said:


> Thanks for the compliments! Like I've said before, I'd really be interested in seeing a model of the J2 based on the studio plans of the 4 & 10-foot models, since it would be distinct from the "as-built" version. The thickness of the "as-designed" lower hull would be much closer to the thickness of the upper hull. Maybe someday....
> 
> Gary


Here's the J2 from the 10' blueprint (red) superimposed on the Moebius shape cutaway drawing from the third page of this thread (green).


----------



## Dar

starseeker said:


> Here's the J2 from the 10' blueprint (red) superimposed on the Moebius shape cutaway drawing from the first page of this thread (green).




Cool. If I hadnt seen those together I wouldnt have really know there was much of a profile difference, especially concerning the roof line. Wow, I think two levels would actually fit in that 10' blueprint diagram. Well almost.:lol:


----------



## Mark Dorais

starseeker said:


> Here's the J2 from the 10' blueprint (red) superimposed on the Moebius shape cutaway drawing from the first page of this thread (green).


The red-blueprint version looks very much like the Lunar Model's 24 inch offering........Which DOES look just like the blueprints and never quite caught the look of our beloved hero ship's accurate "charms" Thank God.....Gary Kerr has taken the contours off his 4' casting......it's going to be amazing!!


----------



## Ron Gross

If you remember the original ad for the Lunar 24", they were using a photo of the classic hero miniature landing scene, and they advertised the offering as being "in half scale." At the time, everyone thought that this was going to be the real deal, but unfortunately it was at a time before it was known that the actual build of the hero model did not match the Fox plans. Circa 1989 or so, as I recall.


----------



## Richard Baker

I am getting my kit from my local Hobby store-I have done business with Homewood Toy & Hobby since 1970. They try to stock all the new scifi kits and I do not mind spending a bit more to keep his business going and the stock flying off the shelves. He does have a hard time keeping Moebius Iron Man and Flying Subs there- they sell fast and his suppliers are having trouble sending him as many as he wants. 

I look upon the power core level the same way I think about the big carrot guy- I try not to let the horrid memory of it ruin otherwise fond memories of that show.


----------



## Dar

One thing i liked about the Great Vegetable Rebellion was that everyone (except smith) plays it straight.:lol:


----------



## starseeker

Superimposed the superimposed drawings over a screen grab from the DVD FX. The J2 turned out somewhat faded but you can see how close the Moebius kit follows the hull contours. As far as the upper deck goes, it's almost spot on. The lower deck seems a tiny bit deeper (and I mean TINY) but that could be an effect of the fuzziness of the capture, or camera lens, the computer, any number of variables. If it's even really there. Whenever I try to do something from any kind of photos or reproduced blueprints I always allow 3% for distortions somewhere in the reproductions. That the Moebius contour is this close to a random screen grab is amazing. 
Amazing.


----------



## Antimatter

Lloyd Collins said:


> I am taking up money, to have Steve cloned. Come on! He needs our help.


Oh my God, not that! :freak:


----------



## Capt. Krik

Steve CultTVman Iverson said:


> Let me get caught up with all the Refit Enterprise orders and Wonderfest orders and I will get the new stuff up in the shop for preorder. I need a clone!
> 
> Steve


Now, how many years now have I been telling you, you need to have yourself cloned.

That's the problem with being a genuis, no one listens to you. :lol:


----------



## toyroy

Richard Baker said:


> ...I look upon the power core level the same way I think about the big carrot guy- I try not to let the horrid memory of it ruin otherwise fond memories of that show.


To me, Tybo the anthropomorphic carrot is the Vitameatavegamin of Lost in Space.


----------



## John P

Capt. Krik said:


> Now, how many years now have I been telling you, you need to have yourself cloned.
> 
> That's the problem with being a genuis, no one listens to you. :lol:



Hm? Whatjasay?


----------



## DaDragon

*I crossed over!!!*

Greetings to all. :wave:

I recently crossed over . . .NO, NOT WITH JOHN EDWARD!!!  . . .from the J2 Consolidated Threads!

At the risk of :beatdeadhorse: . . .

My initial posts #521 and #522 contained deck plans for an 84 foot J2 capable of fully supporting two decks. These are *not* mine, just found while trawling the net for references useful in building the PL J2 . . .ehm, still not built . They're not perfect: as Opus Penguin pointed out there's no Space Pod bay! 

The only way of building, or converting a two-decker from the Moebius kit is to change the scale and use smaller figures. This would require a complete rebuild of the interior from scratch! :drunk:

As for fitting in an engine room . . .:freak: :freak:

All the best,

Graham.


----------



## toyroy

DaDragon said:


> ...The only way of building, or converting a two-decker from the Moebius kit is to change the scale and use smaller figures. This would require a complete rebuild of the interior from scratch! :drunk:...


*OH MY GOD!!!* Scratchbuilding is a fate worse than...something...vaguely...scary...!?!!


----------



## hedorah59

starseeker said:


> Superimposed the superimposed drawings over a screen grab from the DVD FX. The J2 turned out somewhat faded but you can see how close the Moebius kit follows the hull contours. As far as the upper deck goes, it's almost spot on. The lower deck seems a tiny bit deeper (and I mean TINY) but that could be an effect of the fuzziness of the capture, or camera lens, the computer, any number of variables. If it's even really there. Whenever I try to do something from any kind of photos or reproduced blueprints I always allow 3% for distortions somewhere in the reproductions. That the Moebius contour is this close to a random screen grab is amazing.
> Amazing.


Thanks for taking the time to do those overlays, starseeker - I agree with you, amazingly close indeed!


----------



## Mitchellmania

WOW!!! I wish I had the time and $$ to build the dream ships. They are beautiful!


----------



## Gary K

DaDragon said:


> The only way of building, or converting a two-decker from the Moebius kit is to change the scale and use smaller figures. This would require a complete rebuild of the interior from scratch! :drunk:
> 
> As for fitting in an engine room . . .:freak: :freak:


Truer words were never spoken. The simple truth is, you can't fit the unaltered upper & lower level studio sets into a ship with the profile of the 4 ft hero model. The ship would require a complete redesign. Allow me to illustrate:

As you can see, even the upper level wouldn't fit a 48' saucer, based on the hero model. This is why I enlarged the theoretical Moebius J2 to a 52' diameter.












I don't have time to do extensive checking, but I *think* the walls of the lower level set were 8' high. For the sake of argument, let's assume 8' lower level wall, with a 2-3" thick deck separating the two levels. Now let's keep the main deck where it was on the show, but enlarge the lower level to a height of 8'. You get this monstrosity, with a cathedral-like upper level.












Lastly, let's enlarge the lower level to 8', and rescale the exterior to fit the combined heights of the upper & lower levels. The ship has a more reasonable 60+ ft diameter, but the lower window sill is almost at floor level, and the main deck is 2.5' above the outer rim of the ship. The center of the lower level would have a flat floor, but the floors of the staterooms, galley, etc. would be slanted. 












I hope this throws some cold water on the notion that you can fit a full-size lower level into a larger-diameter ship. You *could* enlarge the ship to accomodate two levels, but you'll have to redesign the interior. You can look at it this way: maybe the Jupiter 2 was real, but 'Lost in Space' was a children's show that featured imperfect, contradictory representations of the ship, so you just have to accept it. If I ever had the time, I'd just as soon create a realistic J2 by enlarging the hero's profile to a 100-200 ft diameter, then completely redesigning the interior and exterior features. Speaking of time, I don't have any more, so I'm outta here!

Gary


----------



## starseeker

Even if you could fit the two decks one under the other, the Jupiter 2, that "mightiest of machines" or whatever they called it in the opening narration, still wouldn't have any more room than the poor old 1701 for equipment or stores or food (exactly what all do Kirk and the crew have to recycle to keep alive and is that really the reason Spock is green?).
If you're going to have a Jupiter 2 and love the shape of the classic (sorry Gary, I'm ripping off your graphic again), then why not do it like maybe they would with modern FX - a big Jupiter 2 with the main control panel an island that you can walk around to look out giant picture windows. I'd put both main decks on the same level and have something like a propulsion system and store rooms all around and underneath, and the top dome could house a telescope. The viewport on the former lower deck would be a screen. The space pod door would lead into the pilots quarters (where did Don live, anyway?) In this universe, a 24" Jupiter 2 would be about 1/72 scale.


----------



## Y3a

Gee, all this talk about 'what if' and such concerning the reconciliation between inside and outside the Jupiter 2, I have a different approach. The art of technobabble was at it's peak during the late TNG series, but Lost in Space was more about fantasy than techno. (The comment from Maureen about a comets 'heat' might have destroyed any life that was aboard(The Derelict)). I suggest the Fusion core system generates a gravity field to push off large objects for takeoffs, and warp space(Hyperdrive), and that they DID generate a gravity field on the ship, so they understood the science(in the Irwin Allen world). So as you got closer to the fusion core, you diminished in size due to the warping of space effect that occurred near the core. Therefore, the lower level would be only 2.5 feet high, and the floor below that, five inches!. They stowed all the food, and supplies under that in that last 1/8th inch........

This is not entirely my idea. I got it from a copy of the Jupiter 2 Reference Manual back in '86?


----------



## skywalker5321

Seaview said:


> I'll be pre-ordering from CultTVman; when you find a good, honest, reliable dealer, you stick with that dealer right to the end. That's just one of my many oft-repeated personal mottos. (Another one is, "can I finish your sandwich").


Agreed!


----------



## Y3a

Also, during the measurements and observations of the available 4 foot Hulls out there, did anyone notice the non-symetrical main window? Notice how, with the Jupiter 2' main window pointed at you, the right side is different from the left. The Left is a teeny bit longer than the right. I noticed this on several photos of the Hero. Even the photo in my moniker shows it. I have a higher res version in my photo li-barry.


----------



## Y3a

The CONSTRUCTION of the Jupiter 2 -

yet another errant thought......

So was the Jupiter 2 built like an aircraft, or a submarine? By the way it survived the crashes, I think the hull was cast as a single piece out of Unobtainium Alloy. The core was slid in from the bottom, the floors were added after because the wiring would HAVE to go under it instead of the walls/bulkheads.


----------



## m jamieson

But Gary, I know you can squeeze that power-core level in...your just not trying! LOL


----------



## Richard Baker

I would love to experiment with a totally differnet interior to th eJupiter 2- someing along the lines of another saucer shaped (main hull) vessel - the Star Wars Falcon. Imagine a ring shaped cooridor with rooms off the sides and in the center. While it made 'TV sense' for the main deck being an open plan, that was so much wasted space on a small ship just walking across to get to the important stuff in the walls and center. Keep the exterior the same as the hero model and reengineer the interior to a more practical use of volume- make the control room a separate room and have some machinery allowances also.

.


----------



## m jamieson

I think we would also have to assume for the sake of argument, that Irwin Allen, his art directors, Fox executives, and anyone else involved in television sci-fi (especially in the 60's) even cared that anything made sense when they created it...that would be the biggest assumption of all!


----------



## Gary K

Richard Baker said:


> I would love to experiment with a totally differnet interior to th eJupiter 2- someing along the lines of another saucer shaped (main hull) vessel - the Star Wars Falcon. Imagine a ring shaped cooridor with rooms off the sides and in the center. While it made 'TV sense' for the main deck being an open plan, that was so much wasted space on a small ship just walking across to get to the important stuff in the walls and center. Keep the exterior the same as the hero model and reengineer the interior to a more practical use of volume- make the control room a separate room and have some machinery allowances also.


Now you're talking! Keep the living quarters & flight controls "upstairs", and put "Engineering" on the lower level. On a larger ship, flight controls would be further outboard to maintain proximity to the cockpit windows, so why not make the area into an actual bridge, with most of the ship's controls in one easy-to-access area? Better yet, include an airtight door that could seal off the bridge, in case the windows broke & they lost pressure.

A realistic ship would require facilities never seen on the show - for example, medical facilities. The Robinsons were supposed to travel to Alpha Centauri, yet they had no way to deal with a case of appendicitis - or even a simple toothache. They'd also need exercise facilities, entertanment facilities, a machine shop, and defintely more staterooms! I mean, three staterooms for a married couple & five single people??

I've *really* got to get back to work.....

Gary


----------



## john_trek

I just assumed that the Jupiter II is like a Tardis, bigger on the inside than on the outside. In this version of reality the Americans got the technical knowledge from the British who got it from the Doctor.


----------



## m jamieson

don't stop there...heating and cooling systems plumbing and wiring conduits. Propellant and Oxygen tanks, recycling systems and an engine/machinery rooms that actually look like one (whatever that would be for an anti-gravity plasma/fusion drive)..and then start adding the back-up systems


----------



## Richard Baker

It might be a fun project for the PL kit I have. I am sure it is on a thread somewhere but what is the scale of the original PL J2 kit?


----------



## Gary K

m jamieson said:


> don't stop there...heating and cooling systems plumbing and wiring conduits. Propellant and Oxygen tanks, recycling systems and an engine/machinery rooms that actually look like one (whatever that would be for an anti-gravity plasma/fusion drive)..and then start adding the back-up systems


Don't forget the brewery, like on the Abramsprise in the new Trek movie! :lol:

The designers in the previous Star Trek TV shows & movies put a ton of thought into their designs, in order to create believable & functional interiors for their spaceships. Imagine what they could do if they collaborated on a realistic Jupiter 2!


----------



## scotpens

Gary K said:


> . . . If I ever had the time, I'd just as soon create a realistic J2 by enlarging the hero's profile to a 100-200 ft diameter, then completely redesigning the interior and exterior features.


As I've previously pointed out, a Jupiter 2 that big would have an upper deck that could be used as a disco floor. Just hang a rotating mirrored ball from the sensor dome, and the astrogator could be the DJ's console.


----------



## m jamieson

Well Irwin could have designed a nice disco hot-spot..'The J2 Club' Lots of flashing lights, neon orange couches freezing tubes with go-go dancers...wait wasn't that an episode? Oh yeah..the groovey long haired Doc.Smith just doing it to the Bee-Gees.


----------



## Capt. Krik

John P said:


> Hm? Whatjasay?


And so it goes...:lol:


----------



## Lloyd Collins

I have rewatched the 3rd season, and compared the test shots of the interior of the upcoming model to the series. I can't find any faults! 

The only real difference of the PL to the Moeibus, is more details. 

After what I have seen, in both the model and DVDs, who wouldn't be excited. 

As for all this other talk, it is not important. What is, is. What might have been or wished for ain't happening. I'm just happy for what will be.


----------



## Dar

Gary K said:


> I hope this throws some cold water on the notion that you can fit a full-size lower level into a larger-diameter ship. You *could* enlarge the ship to accomodate two levels, but you'll have to redesign the interior. You can look at it this way: maybe the Jupiter 2 was real, but 'Lost in Space' was a children's show that featured imperfect, contradictory representations of the ship, so you just have to accept it. If I ever had the time, I'd just as soon create a realistic J2 by enlarging the hero's profile to a 100-200 ft diameter, then completely redesigning the interior and exterior features. Speaking of time, I don't have any more, so I'm outta here!
> 
> Gary



This is a fun conversation.:hat: Its fun to speculate on the design of the ship and what it could have been. I do think many here know that the studio sets would NOT have fit as scaled. They would have to be completely rescaled. As you have shown Gary it is indeed possible to rescale the interior and fit two levels in the ship. Some stuff will have to be stretched a bit, The outer hull door moved up as well as the window but the basic style and layout of the ship could still be retained for the most part. I do like Starseekers idea of putting both levels redsigned on the first level. Again it could have the same interior asthetics as the original. 

I really would love to see a concept model like that one day. Perhaps if they ever resurrect the idea for a new series, someone will design a proper interior and use the old exterior. The movie almost got it right but had to screw it up by using the look of the old J2 as a temporary launch shell. :lol:


----------



## drewid142

I know this conversation risks annoying the designers of this new models... so FIRST I want to chime in and say that I am SUPER excited to have it EXACTLY the way they have designed it... the best fit of the interior upper deck set into the exterior. It is going to be a fantastic model and I FULLY SUPPORT that decision as the right way to do this model... in addition... it looks to me that Gary and crew have done a FANTASTIC job of getting all the details just right!

That said... yes... it is always very fun to explore the possibilities of fitting the various levels into the exterior. I am quite certain that someone will do a super cool scratch build of the upper and lower levels into this kit and I look forward to seeing it.

I, on the otherhand, look forward to building her exactly as she is being produced... a fantastic representation of the interior upper deck into the exterior.

If time ever permits... I will certainly try my hand at doing a scatch build of upper and lower deck... and what the heck... Pod bay, Chariot bay, and lower lower level engine room... someone simply MUST build out the room of boxes into this shell!


----------



## Dar

^^^^Totally agree. I hope everyone gets the spirit with which some of the conversations of the interior have taken. Its only fun speculation on the design of the J2. No reflection on the Moebius model design, which is superb.:thumbsup:


----------



## MAX WEDGE

Lloyd Collins said:


> I have rewatched the 3rd season, and compared the test shots of the interior of the upcoming model to the series. I can't find any faults!


 So, for those that aren't into the 3rd Season interior, what alterations would need to be added/deleted to get the first season look?


----------



## Lloyd Collins

Paint the model black and white.:tongue:

Max, I would have to check the DVDs,since it has been a LONG time since I watched the 1st season.


----------



## Ron Gross

MAX WEDGE said:


> So, for those that aren't into the 3rd Season interior, what alterations would need to be added/deleted to get the first season look?


One thing that comes to mind is that the far-fetched "universal translator" located underneath the flight recorder would have to replaced by the atomic clock.


----------



## RSN

Ron Gross said:


> One thing that comes to mind is that the far-fetched "universal translator" located underneath the flight recorder would have to replaced by the atomic clock.


Starting from the front and working around, the flight contros are only on the sides under the viewport, the center section is empty when the only flight chair is extended. The communication station has two additinal tv screens instead of blinky lights, no stereo viewer, just one eye piece on a stalk. and the whoe unit is back about a foot or two. The control panel above "General Alarm" is "Robot Activation", not "Fuel Jettison Activation", the unit under the reel to reel tape drive should be the "Atomic Clock". The controls next to the stroeroom door are simplified and read "CabinPressuer Control". No window on the store room door next to the elevator. The colors are more gray on gray than the buff coloring in 2 and 3. I'm sure I left some things out, it is early!

Ron Nastrom


----------



## robiwon

O.K. by show of hands, how many have drawn an 18 inch circle on a piece of paper and set your PL J2in the center? Not all that impressive is it? Doing that does not really make the diference in size that appreciable. Well, last night I was messin around with my PL 1/350 Refit Enterprise. For those who have one you know it's freakin huge, including the saucer. So I decided to measure the saucer. It's only 16 inches, still _smaller_ than the new J2. So, if you want a small reality check on just how massive the 18 inch J2 is going to be, go look at your Refit saucer.:wave:


----------



## Gary K

robiwon said:


> O.K. by show of hands, how many have drawn an 18 inch circle on a piece of paper and set your PL J2in the center? Not all that impressive is it? Doing that does not really make the diference in size that appreciable. Well, last night I was messin around with my PL 1/350 Refit Enterprise. For those who have one you know it's freakin huge, including the saucer. So I decided to measure the saucer. It's only 16 inches, still _smaller_ than the new J2. So, if you want a small reality check on just how massive the 18 inch J2 is going to be, go look at your Refit saucer.:wave:


Does this help give you an idea of the size of the Moebius J2? 

Gary


----------



## robiwon

Gary K said:


> Does this help give you an idea of the size of the Moebius J2?
> 
> Gary


Crap, stupid work computer! I see a red "x"!

So, no, not really, LOL!:wave:


----------



## Seaview

Splendid!!!!!!!!


----------



## Captain Han Solo

*That looks great Gary!!!*

*Thanks for posting that Pic:thumbsup:.*

I already have plans for this kit...I plan on really detailing the Pod Bay Hatch/Airlock(Inside the upper deck, not the external hatch), With a Space Pod Interior..So when viewing the hatch(Which I will make To open and close), You will see a Full interior of the Space Pod!

Based on the Pics Gary has shown us, There is Plenty of room inside the Hull!

I also will have all the Hatches Open and Close(I did this on all my Lunar/Polar Lights Kits)..

*Again, A really awesome time for us Irwin Allen Fans!*

Thanks again Moebius!


BP


----------



## Mark Dorais

Gary K said:


> Does this help give you an idea of the size of the Moebius J2?
> 
> Gary


 OH MY GOD.. she's BEAUTIFUL!!!!!! Do you have a profile shot of the two ships Gary?:thumbsup:


----------



## Antimatter

Holy Size, Batman!


----------



## Richard Baker

Very impressive- looks much better than my sizing circle.

Is this a test shot yet?

.


----------



## Opus Penguin

Good Lord!!! Where will I put it? Oh who cares!!! I want 2!!!


----------



## Gary K

Richard Baker said:


> Very impressive- looks much better than my sizing circle.
> 
> Is this a test shot yet?


Nope, this is just the prototype. We won't have an actual test shot for a couple months or so. 

Gary


----------



## m jamieson

Find a place to put it...I will MAKE a place to put it!!


----------



## BlackbirdCD

I'm going to need a bigger shelf... :thumbsup:


----------



## Punchcard76

*It's Huge !!*

I wonder if they make silver flight suits for white mice ?


----------



## starseeker

I was just fooling around with the idea of re doing my 1/24 J2 with a fibreglass hull at the same time I do my FS and trying to figure out if there was any way that I could fit my 1/24 scale interior into a 24" unmodified hero hull shape and still have working landing gear.
Actually, it is possible! 
The landing gear couldn't operate as they did in the miniature, though, with the sliding bar across the top of the gear bay. But there is room behind the upper deck walls for aa almost vertical telescoping strut. And since the landing gear isn't arranged underneath the upper deck hatch, there would be no interference with the airlock, either. So if you're willing to change how the gear extend, it will work!
This is a just rough sketch. The upper deck needs to sit lower in the hull, the floor a bit more below the center line.


----------



## m jamieson

I'm curious..How did the sliding bar work? Everything I have previously seen involved pulleys and springs.


----------



## m jamieson

You know how model railroaders build huge lay-outs in their attics and basements...I'm hoping to see someone do the same with a crash scene diorama with the Moebius J2! Lost of sand and scratch-built alien ships and monsters from various episodes scattered about some huge planet scene with plaster Trona pinnacles. and the old hot-tub being turned into a whirl-pool with a Moebius chariot spinning round in it...yeah just go nuts with it! 
Of course once the divorce papers are served, game over .....but for awhile it would be sight to behold!


----------



## robiwon

Can anyone repost the pics with a different host? My computer is blocking them.


----------



## Y3a

Um...there was NO sliding bar above the gear wells. you saw a shadow of the torque arm on teh back of the gear leg. The legs were moved by pullys and cables.


----------



## starseeker

Maybe that's just the way I built mine. Been so long I don't remember what the source was. What did slide the strut forward? (Edit: oh, wait, I have a picture... That Y strut would lever fwd and force the strut down. Pretty clever. But definitely no room for anything like that with an interior of any kind. That must have been why I came up with the sliding rod and u joint for mine...) Anyway, folding landing gear could be done, and everything could be done pretty close to scale (the depth of the window sills and the airlock) but there would be no space for anything between the landing gear and the floor of the upper deck. The struts would have to stay almost vertical. I've got to try this.


----------



## Richard Baker

robiwon said:


> Can anyone repost the pics with a different host? My computer is blocking them.


I put a copy of it on my Photobucket- hope this works
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e267/RBaker2164/Sizecomparison.jpg


----------



## toyroy

starseeker said:


> ...This is a just rough sketch. The upper deck needs to sit in the hull, the floor a bit more below the center line.


Good point! The main deck _is_ below the center line(where the upper and lower hull meet) on the interior/exterior set. Remember the ramp from the main deck hatch to the deck itself. This also effects the height of the flight controls, as it did(adversely) on the Polar Lights model. 

Since the Moebius model isn't making the compromises required for a lower deck, there's no reason the flight deck shouldn't be just as it was on the show.


----------



## Gary K

toyroy said:


> Good point! The main deck _is_ below the center line(where the upper and lower hull meet) on the interior/exterior set. Remember the ramp from the main deck hatch to the deck itself. This also effects the height of the flight controls, as it did(adversely) on the Polar Lights model.
> 
> Since the Moebius model isn't making the compromises required for a lower deck, there's no reason the flight deck shouldn't be just as it was on the show.


As has been stated before, the main deck was below the outer rim of the saucer ONLY on the Gemini 12. As you can see in the studio plan below, the deck was level with the outer rim during the run of the series, so that's how it is on the Moebius kit. Btw, if you look closely, you can see the profile of the Gemini 12, which is shown in dashed lines.

Gary


----------



## starseeker

Gary, in Condemned of Space, as John is leaving the J2 to retrieve whatever it is he's going after, you can him standing on what seems to be a much steeper incline in the airlock (Viewmaster reel) than is shown on this plan. Didn't they use the G12 interior (after having leveled the floor for the robot) for the entire 1st and 2nd seasons. In the second they fiddled with the ceiling inside and I think the viewport, too, but didn't the set retain that incline in the airlock and leave basically everything below soffit level unchanged? I'm wondering what the date of this blueprint is and if it is for the later 3d season J2 when the roof beams disappeared and stage floor became the set floor.
What a great plan! Thanks for posting!
Edit: Searching through my files I came up with this. No idea where it came from but it shows the wheels for the wild sections which I wouldn't have thought needed if it was built on the stage floor... But they still needed wild sections for the 3d season to film inside the ship... And John appears to be standing on a much steeper incline in that picture... 
What is the date of your blueprint?


----------



## Ron Gross

Gary K said:


> As has been stated before, the main deck was below the outer rim of the saucer ONLY on the Gemini 12. As you can see in the studio plan below, the deck was level with the outer rim during the run of the series, so that's how it is on the Moebius kit. Btw, if you look closely, you can see the profile of the Gemini 12, which is shown in dashed lines.


This question has come up many times in personal e-mails to me, especially in the aftermath of the PL J2 release. For the record, I agree with Gary's assessment on this issue completely.
Ron G.


----------



## Lloyd Collins

To help me with the size of the J2 kit, I pulled out my 16 inch Lunar Model kit. 
Now I can use it as a stand-in, to figure where it will fit in my house. This will make four size kits for me, 12,14,16, and coming 18 inch.


----------



## starseeker

This is a shot from Sky is Falling, the only non-pilot 1st season episode I can think of offhand that displays the airlock well. Just look at the rise. That can't be just 4 or 5 inches, can it? Check out the scene. That's not simply camera angle or lends distortion. Everything else looks flat. That looks more like the rise from the G12 blues. I'm sure they used the re-dressed G12 for all the 1st season. The G12s original floor to the hatch was all angle. On the 1st J2, there was a flat section of floor just inside the outer hatch. In Giants/Earth, as John and Don set up the force field, Smith walks out of the hatch and you can see the steps up he takes as he comes up the incline. Second season, Wild Adventure, that high step up seems to be much reduced. It could be the 4 or 5" from the blueprints posted above. Perhaps part of a redesign to allow the Robot to use that hatch? In the Viewmaster reel, maybe John's one foot is only 4 or 5" higher than the other. ??
I guess it all only re-enforces the fact that there is no "accurate" interior/exterior interface, especially as things seem to have changed between seasons. (First time I can remember that I've seen the interior of the J2 in color. It was really beautiful!)


----------



## Gary K

Ron Gross said:


> This question has come up many times in personal e-mails to me, especially in the aftermath of the PL J2 release. For the record, I agree with Gary's assessment on this issue completely.
> Ron G.


It gets more complicated. The studio plans for the 10' miniature (the 10' miniature ONLY - not the 4-footer) show a rise of a scale 4.5-5" from the deck to the bottom of the airlock door, while plans of the full-size set show a rise of 7". I've checked 3rd season episodes, like "The Time Merchant", and the flat raised floor is there, just like in the studio plan. 

The rise in the studio airlock set looks higher in some DVD caps & publicity shots. I'm wondering - did the Fox construction crew (GASP!) deviate from the blueprints, and make the rise in the studio set's airlock higher than planned? That would make the ramp inside the airlock steeper. Sounds like something I need to investigate further. But then there's the question of which rise is correct - the 5", 7", or something higher? Oh, my achin' head....

Gary


----------



## Ductapeforever

Should be a simple matter to scratch build a ramp in the airlock at either rise height. No worries!


----------



## Richard Baker

Ductapeforever said:


> Should be a simple matter to scratch build a ramp in the airlock at either rise height. No worries!


Wouldn't the angle be predetermined by the outer door sill height and the level of the floor at the inner lock door?

.


----------



## DaDragon

BlackbirdCD said:


> I'm going to need a bigger shelf... :thumbsup:


An' I'm gonna need a bigger _house_!!! :freak:

Honey . . .its time to sell the kids!!! :drunk:

Graham.


----------



## Fozzie

I haven't even found space for my 3' refit _Enterprise_...where am I gonna put the _Jupiter 2_? I need another room. Hmmm. Maybe we can make do with just ONE bathroom...  Hey...if I leave the tub in there when I remodel, I can create a great diorama for the 3' Seaview...


----------



## starseeker

D'oh! - sidetracked myself with the angle of the airlock floor. What really determines the position of the upper deck floor is the distance between the bottom of the window and the height of the main control panels. We know where the bottom of the windows are in the various incarnations. We also know in great detail the dimensions of the G12, 1st season and 2nd season main control panels from all the blueprints floating around out there. That's how I lined up my cutaway overlay above, the first season control panel to the window sill.


----------



## toyroy

Richard Baker said:


> Wouldn't the angle be predetermined by the outer door sill height and the level of the floor at the inner lock door?


Probably the most important consideration for those primarily interested in the interior, is the deck level in relation to the flight controls. What I want to know is: if the main deck is properly located interior-wise, will it interfere with the landing gear in the closed position?


----------



## toyroy

starseeker said:


> ...That's how I lined up my cutaway overlay above, the first season control panel to the window sill.


Which "cutout overlay" are you referring to? I.e., which message #?


----------



## starseeker

519. I roughly placed the interior over the exterior in a position that might be a little high. On the 4', the 3 computers are barely visible above the window sill. On the full sized set, they are only about 1/2 hidden by the sill. The dimensions of the control panels are out there everywhere. I favor 1st season everything, so this is the (I think!) 1st season panel cross section showing how deep into the hull the floor could go. You can't raise the interior any higher into the hull because the ladder and elevator walls don't have that top corner angle. They rise vertically all the way to the ceiling so this placement is the highest you can go and still have maybe an 080 hull thickness. Even enlarging the hull or scaling down the upper deck doesn't make much difference, unless you're willing to greatly enlarge the depth of the window sills and the airlock. The landing gear legs do fit under there. And the feet are placed so that they don't interfere with anything. It's just those struts...
All in all, I think the Moebius is a great compromise. Lots of room to work landing gear into the lower saucer, beautiful upper deck.


----------



## MightyMax

BruceDownunder said:


> As are Tower Hobbies - and considerably cheaper then MIM too...
> http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXXRT3&P=7


Does Tower Charge up front or not till the item is shipped?
Does CultTVman
Trying to plan funding but if they won't charge the ol Credit Card till it's available it will be easier to get past the wife. Last night over dinner she asked out of nowhere. So What did you order from CultTVMan that was 111.00? (Moebius Seaview, Pegasus MWM's)
She didn't want to hear of the great deal I got, especially on the Seaview!

I would sleep better at night knowing I have one pre-ordered and all I got to do is wait for it to arrive later in the year...

Cheers,
Max Bryant


----------



## g_xii

MightyMax said:


> ... Last night over dinner she asked out of nowhere. So What did you order from CultTVMan that was 111.00? (Moebius Seaview, Pegasus MWM's)...
> 
> She didn't want to hear of the great deal I got, especially on the Seaview!


Wimmen' shoud not mess wit' MAN-TOYS or what we do to obtain them!!!! IT'S ALL WE HAVE LEFT!!!!

--H


----------



## Duck Fink

ahahahahaha.....ain't that the truth! Hey I can't wait to see what ya come up with for this one Henry!


----------



## Steve CultTVman Iverson

MightyMax said:


> Does Tower Charge up front or not till the item is shipped?
> Does CultTVman
> Trying to plan funding but if they won't charge the ol Credit Card till it's available it will be easier to get past the wife. Last night over dinner she asked out of nowhere. So What did you order from CultTVMan that was 111.00? (Moebius Seaview, Pegasus MWM's)
> She didn't want to hear of the great deal I got, especially on the Seaview!
> 
> I would sleep better at night knowing I have one pre-ordered and all I got to do is wait for it to arrive later in the year...
> 
> Cheers,
> Max Bryant


Busted!

For preorders, I don't take payment up front. When you go through the check out, use the "preorder-payment at a later date" option for payment. I'll contact you for payment at a later date.

Hope that helps
Steve


----------



## AJ-1701

g_xii said:


> Wimmen' shoud not mess wit' MAN-TOYS or what we do to obtain them!!!! IT'S ALL WE HAVE LEFT!!!!
> 
> --H


We've struck up a deal at our place... I don't ask her what her shoes n bags cost and she doesn't ask what my models cost. :thumbsup: Plus we each have our own pocket money before the rest of the saleries are dropped in the house surplus/deficet well of souls. :drunk:


----------



## Y3a

Are there any mechanics detailed in the plans of the 10 foot model? Landing gear especially.


----------



## Gary K

Y3a said:


> Are there any mechanics detailed in the plans of the 10 foot model? Landing gear especially.


Unfortunately, no. The plans merely show a simple exterior of the 4/10 ft models, with a cross-section detail drawing of the airlock. An annotation says that the drawing applies ONLY to the 10 ft model.

Gary


----------



## MightyMax

Steve CultTVman Iverson said:


> Busted!
> 
> For preorders, I don't take payment up front. When you go through the check out, use the "preorder-payment at a later date" option for payment. I'll contact you for payment at a later date.
> 
> Hope that helps
> Steve


 
Sure does! Thanks Steve.

Max


----------



## Gary K

Here's a graphic that shows one of the pitfalls of trying to combine the tall, narrow studio set interior of the Jupiter 2 with the lower, wider proportions of the hero model, and a compromise I had to make on the Moebius model. In the graphic, the airlock door from the 10 ft miniature has been scaled up to full size, then applied to a 52 ft diameter ship with the profile of the hero model & a full-size interior. Since the curved sides of the hero model are not as steep & tall as the straight-sided J2 mock-up on the studio set, there's not as much headroom in the doorway. In fact, the upper edge of the doorway on the studio mock-up was 80" above the lower edge. On this drawing, that 80" height would actually be above the dashed line between the side wall and roof of the ship.

Like I said in a previous post, there are contradictory figures for the height of the lower edge of the doorway, and I've gone with a lower value, to provide a little more headroom, in case anybody wants to model a crash site diorama or recreate a spacewalk scene. When the first test shot comes out & I can evaluate the airlock in 3D, I'll give the matter some more thought and may (or may not) revise the airlock door.

Gary


----------



## Prince of Styrene II

Jaruemalak said:


> Funny you should say that. YEARS ago, a friend of mine worked in a local television station, and during one of his lull times, he took a black and white Lost In Space promo film (2 or 3 minutes) and edited it down on video so that it perfectly fit the theme to Gilligan's Island! I wish I still had a copy; it was hilarious!


I did that, using the Gilligan theme to ST: Voyager. Pretty frickin' funny!


----------



## m jamieson

The robot is really going to have to duck low though the doorway.


----------



## m jamieson

Or he'll be on his back..blowing bubbles!


----------



## Gemini1999

Gary K said:


> Here's a graphic that shows one of the pitfalls of trying to combine the tall, narrow studio set interior of the Jupiter 2 with the lower, wider proportions of the hero model, and a compromise I had to make on the Moebius model. In the graphic, the airlock door from the 10 ft miniature has been scaled up to full size, then applied to a 52 ft diameter ship with the profile of the hero model & a full-size interior. Since the curved sides of the hero model are not as steep & tall as the straight-sided J2 mock-up on the studio set, there's not as much headroom in the doorway. In fact, the upper edge of the doorway on the studio mock-up was 80" above the lower edge. On this drawing, that 80" height would actually be above the dashed line between the side wall and roof of the ship.
> 
> Like I said in a previous post, there are contradictory figures for the height of the lower edge of the doorway, and I've gone with a lower value, to provide a little more headroom, in case anybody wants to model a crash site diorama or recreate a spacewalk scene. When the first test shot comes out & I can evaluate the airlock in 3D, I'll give the matter some more thought and may (or may not) revise the airlock door.


Gary -

The one thing that can be said about the Moebius J2 kit is clearly there was a very intense effort to provide as much detail and scaling that was possible, while attempting to reconcile the many disparities between the full size sets and filming model(s).

I know that the result will be a terrific kit that will please the largest number of people possible. I think that this kit is going to be quite a success for Moebius and I can't wait to see the final result.

Bryan


----------



## m jamieson

Does anyone know if any more photographs of the ten foot model have ever surfaced besides the one or two that have shown up where it is looking in need of serious restoration?


----------



## starseeker

One of the advantages to the deeper floor is that at as the airlock floor rises, headroom becomes a non-issue as there is no "roof" to the open airlock. My hull profile is a little different that yours, but this gives the idea.
Edit: made a mistake, corrected the drawing and reposted it further on next page.


----------



## toyroy

starseeker said:


> ...What really determines the position of the upper deck floor is the distance between the bottom of the window and the height of the main control panels. We know where the bottom of the windows are in the various incarnations. We also know in great detail the dimensions of the G12, 1st season and 2nd season main control panels from all the blueprints floating around out there...


Starseeker,
Regarding the first season version of the interior/exterior set, just how far below the hull centerline _is_ the main deck, in full scale inches?


----------



## g_xii

starseeker said:


> One of the advantages to the deeper floor is that at as the airlock floor rises, headroom becomes a non-issue as there is no "roof" to the open airlock. My hull profile is a little different that yours, but this gives the idea.


Starseeker --

I don't think that quite works -- there would be no room to even stand up inside the airlock (if inner and outer hatches were closed) while wearing a big bulky space helmet. You'd get your head stuck in the inner hatch when they closed the door before you went "EVA" so to speak! I think Gary's is a bit more likely... or you could modify your design slightly by moving the inner hatch a little more into the flight deck. 

Does that make sense? I just seem to remember seeing Guy Williams standing _inside_ the airlock when both hatches were closed -- and he was a tall person. I'm sure he was over six feet tall. There is no way he could have done it with a helmet on in your representation. 

--Henry


----------



## bert model maker

starseeker said:


> One of the advantages to the deeper floor is that at as the airlock floor rises, headroom becomes a non-issue as there is no "roof" to the open airlock. My hull profile is a little different that yours, but this gives the idea.


starseeker, you have a PM.
Bert


----------



## starseeker

g_xii said:


> Starseeker --
> 
> I don't think that quite works -- there would be no room to even stand up inside the airlock (if inner and outer hatches were closed) while wearing a big bulky space helmet. You'd get your head stuck in the inner hatch when they closed the door before you went "EVA" so to speak! I think Gary's is a bit more likely... or you could modify your design slightly by moving the inner hatch a little more into the flight deck.
> 
> Does that make sense? I just seem to remember seeing Guy Williams standing _inside_ the airlock when both hatches were closed -- and he was a tall person. I'm sure he was over six feet tall. There is no way he could have done it with a helmet on in your representation.
> 
> --Henry


You're exactly right. I just overlaid the pages and on the side view (posted above) my inner hatch is a good 1/2" outboard of where it is in my drawing of the floorplan of that area. ??? I'll revise that to make it line up with the floor plan and edit that post. That gives a significant amount more headroom.
But my point is, with the floor angling down more steeply and the upper deck floor lower than the center line of the hull, there is headroom through the inner hatch and in the airlock itself. Even for the robot to pass. 
The difficulty of trying to fit a scale interior into a exterior of about the same scale is further complicated by the number of contradictory blueprints floating around out there. I've got at least 3 different blueprints of the hatch area floor plan. I think they reflect changes between seasons tho that doesn't explain all the contradictions.
It's fun in a 3D jigsaw puzzle kind of way.


----------



## DaDragon

Steve CultTVman Iverson said:


> Busted!
> 
> For preorders, I don't take payment up front. When you go through the check out, use the "preorder-payment at a later date" option for payment. I'll contact you for payment at a later date.
> 
> Hope that helps
> Steve


Well, my pre-order's in :thumbsup: : thanks Steve.   

Graham.


----------



## starseeker

toyroy said:


> Starseeker,
> Regarding the first season version of the interior/exterior set, just how far below the hull centerline _is_ the main deck, in full scale inches?


Toyroy, I don't know. The background of the attachment below is the G12 cross section. The distance there on the full sized set is 1' 9" from CL to floor. The red overlay is a photo of an original vellum/pencil blueprint that was in one of the History in Profiles catalogues (I think + I didn't note which catalogues I found it in but they're all amazing references for any sf modeler). It has to be either a 1st or 2nd season revision. Overlayed, there are the inevitable small differences that like in the floor plans that so bug me but they are still a very close match to each other's main elements. Safe to say that that 1' 9" from hull CL to floor is still applicable? It's still pretty subjective but the evidence seems to make the case?


----------



## starseeker

g_xii said:


> Starseeker --
> 
> I don't think that quite works -- there would be no room to even stand up inside the airlock (if inner and outer hatches were closed) while wearing a big bulky space helmet. You'd get your head stuck in the inner hatch when they closed the door before you went "EVA" so to speak! I think Gary's is a bit more likely... or you could modify your design slightly by moving the inner hatch a little more into the flight deck.
> 
> Does that make sense? I just seem to remember seeing Guy Williams standing _inside_ the airlock when both hatches were closed -- and he was a tall person. I'm sure he was over six feet tall. There is no way he could have done it with a helmet on in your representation.
> 
> --Henry


Here's the drawing corrected to show the inner hatch where it is on my floorplan. I don't know how I got that so out of whack and thanks for catching it. Now, I think all parts line up. 
Anyway, you were absolutely right, in the previous drawing there wasn't any headroom. In this one, there's room for a 6'4" figure plus a generous bubble helmet.
This is from a blueprint of the interior, a blueprint of the hatch area, plus the general exterior profile of the hero saucer at the smallest diameter it can be to contain the upper deck, just to show how an interior could be made to fit into that exterior. So that space between the airlock doors is purely conjectural.


----------



## Steve CultTVman Iverson

Now up for preorder...

http://www.culttvmanshop.com/shop/index.html


----------



## m jamieson

That circular ring that always surrounded the lower deck in the crash site set always bothered me even when I was ten. Why didn't they build the set with the lower deck just angling down into the planet soil and the stage floor?


----------



## starseeker

First time I've seen the box art that everyone's mentioned. It really is beautiful. Ron, if you do make posters of your J2 and Chariot box art, you definitely will have customers. 
Now, on to a 1/72 Space Shuttle...


----------



## GEH737

Pre-Order in for two Steve


----------



## Seaview

starseeker said:


> First time I've seen the box art that everyone's mentioned. It really is beautiful. Ron, if you do make posters of your J2 and Chariot box art, you definitely will have customers.
> ...


 
An excellent idea for Club Moebius members! :thumbsup:


----------



## bert model maker

starseeker said:


> First time I've seen the box art that everyone's mentioned. It really is beautiful. Ron, if you do make posters of your J2 and Chariot box art, you definitely will have customers.
> Now, on to a 1/72 Space Shuttle...


starseeker, did you get my pm ?
bert


----------



## Ron Gross

starseeker said:


> First time I've seen the box art that everyone's mentioned. It really is beautiful. Ron, if you do make posters of your J2 and Chariot box art, you definitely will have customers.
> Now, on to a 1/72 Space Shuttle...


Thanks, everyone, for the comments. The pic on Steve's site looks like it's from the poster that Frank had made for WonderFest. Unfortunately, most of the blue hues did not make it onto this print, sort of like a faded film strip. So I am taking the liberty of posting a small image of the actual work, while I will leave it up to Frank to post something more substantial when he thinks the time is right. Hopefully the final box design will accurately reflect the work this time (please, not another PL situation)!

I am also posting a composite resource image, which I thought might be of some interest. The landscape photo was taken by Jef Furtado at the Trona Pinnacles, where much of the original J2 SFX work was originally shot. The B&W inset photo is of my own scratch build. I anticipated that the final design of the Moebius model would be close enough to my own work to justify this decision. The actual art was completed well over a year ago.

As for the subject of posters, they would likely have to be promotional in nature due to the terms of the license, etc. But we did it once at WF, and so I don't see why that same experience couldn't be duplicated.
Ron G.


----------



## m jamieson

I think a poster would make a great backdrop for the model!


----------



## GKvfx

Ron Gross said:


> .......The landscape photo was taken by Jef Furtado at the Trona Pinnacles, where much of the original J2 SFX work was originally shot. .........



If you go see the new "Land of the Lost" movie coming out this week, you'll see a lot more of this area since a bunch of scenes for it were shot there.

Gene


----------



## Mark Dorais

m jamieson said:


> I think a poster would make a great backdrop for the model!


With Ron's beautiful art... a fantastic idea!:thumbsup:


----------



## tardis61

Hi Steve

I have pre ordered one for Aus Can't wait till Christmas

Champagne for all

You keep our dreams going

All from Down under


----------



## LGFugate

I've preordered two from Steve! One for me, and one to fly to Wales!

Larry

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


----------



## Lloyd Collins

I ordered one, and it will be in next week.


----------



## Ron Gross

Are you beaming it through a time warp, or what?


----------



## Ductapeforever

Lloyd Collins said:


> I ordered one, and it will be in next week.


WTF? Impossible!


----------



## Seaview

Naw, Lloyd's probably developed some patent-pending "Rip Van Winkle" Potion. :hat:


----------



## psquinn

Hi guys
Just pre-ordered 2 from Steve!! Always so pleased with his great service. Where will I ever put my 3 Lunars and 2 Polars?? So excited to see what develops in the after-market world. I have a hunch the after-market parts will be out before the model hits. 
Dear Moebius, just keep doing what you do so well, incredible detail..love your stuff!!!!!
Dave


----------



## bert model maker

Chris Doll did the box art on the new moebius Jupiter 2 ?
http://www.culttvmanshop.com/shop/product.php?productid=17130


----------



## AJ-1701

Pre ordered one with Steve last night with that "what are you buying now" quip from the wife just as I hit the submit button :tongue:


----------



## m jamieson

model maker said:


> Chris Doll did the box art on the new moebius Jupiter 2 ?
> http://www.culttvmanshop.com/shop/product.php?productid=17130


No..he did the photo of the artwork by Ron!


----------



## oshkosh619

Pre-ordered mine from Steve last night too. Man, life is good.... From the 3 foot Seaview, the huge FS1 and now the Monstrous 18" J2, Moebius has recreated my childhood better than Aurora ever could! :thumbsup:


----------



## g_xii

AJ-1701 said:


> Pre ordered one with Steve last night with that "what are you buying now" quip from the wife just as I hit the submit button :tongue:


And did you then say "MAN-STUFF" and tell her to belt up and get you a beer? 

--H


----------



## Vindi

Just pre-ordered mine.

Now I just have to save up the ducats to buy my other two favorite models; the Seaview and the Flying Sub.

Man I thought I was done with modeling, still have three NCC-1701 AMT kits, including a "smoothy" a regular and the one with the sounds, all in a big box, an electronic X-Wing, a PL Jupiter 2 and a few other kits.

Moebius and all of you guys here have resurrected the desire to build again, but DAMN you all , my wallet is going to take a BIG hit now with the paints and lighting kits, not to mention the Seaview and FS kits I'll need to get.:freak:

Oh, I have a BUNCH of LED's that I have to go through (was an ET in the Navy and they were going to throw them out so I grabbed them) to see what colors I have. I'll make a post with them and I'm sure I'll be able to let most of them go.

Vindi


----------



## gareee

I'm probably in the minority here, but I'm less concerned about uber accurate prop measurements, and more concerned about my real world modelling experience with what Moebius produces.

Thats why I've ended up harping about the other model releases, and not having enough clear plastic parts for easy hobbiest lighting.

If I can toss a christmas string of LEDS in the bottom of the model, and light most of the consoles with something cheap and easy, I'm delighted.

If I have to recast parts in resin, or spend another $50 to did something like that, then the product becomes less attractive to me. The seaview interior is an excellent example of missed oppertunity. Making all the console parts that had lights clear would make interior work SO much easier for hobbiest that don't want to spend a mint in after market replacement parts.

There is NO cost what so ever involved in doing it either.. its just preplanning in advance what parts go on what sprues.

Think of kids just getting in the hobby that would also like things like simple lighting in their build, but can't afford $75 in after market add on kits.

I guess its just a yearning for the simpler days of scale modelling, when today, every wants to cater to the picky pro modeller with unlimited cash reserves.


----------



## Lloyd Collins

Ron Gross said:


> Are you beaming it through a time warp, or what?


I'm from the future, and I have all of the other Moebius kits, but you will have to wait to see what's coming.My device,I can't talk about it.:lol:


----------



## xsavoie

Garee is probably right.Especially where the Seaview is concerned.After all,how much of the small interior bridege do we really notice once the Seaview is assembled.The basic vehicle kits from Moebius are highly detailed and precise enough for the average display.Theylook great as is.Of course,futher precising the kits will probably get noticed at least a bit more.Very tempting to add extra details,but not absolutely necessary.


----------



## Lloyd Collins

From my view of the Seaview control room through the windows, you can see most of it. So I will be detailing most of it.

For the J2, I will add any details I want, but only if I can see it from any windows. Once built, it will be sealed up, unless I can fix a way to screw it shut for access to inside. Of course I will have to wait to see how the model is put together.


----------



## toyroy

Lloyd Collins said:


> ...For the J2, I will add any details I want, but only if I can see it from any windows. Once built, it will be sealed up...


I doubt that most J2 modelers will take that build approach, in light of the amazing interior detail. In fact, it is precisely because of this authenticity, that I think getting the deck level correct is important. Drewid has announced a figure set, and if the flight consoles are hugging the floor, or there's no headroom at the hatch for the Robot, it is a much greater issue than with the PL kit.


----------



## bert model maker

I was trying to think of a way the seaview could be "lifted off" of the control room. Mine is still in the box so i don't know how it will go together or if that is possible. there is a lot of detail that just cannot be seen through the front window alone.


----------



## Richard Baker

model maker said:


> I was trying to think of a way the seaview could be "lifted off" of the control room. Mine is still in the box so i don't know how it will go together or if that is possible. there is a lot of detail that just cannot be seen through the front window alone.


That is the one thing I hated about the PL 1/350 Refit kit- I love the fact they created a huge hangar/cargo bay but if you can only see a small aprt of it through th erear doors. I don't want to waste it- either a outside build next to the model of a cutaway...

I plan on filling the J2 hull with detail behind the walls.It will be fun to come up with hardware to fit the Irwim Allen retro style tech.


----------



## Lloyd Collins

Toyroy, I didn't explain right what I plan. I mean any details other than what Moebius has in the model. I like the idea of looking inside through the windows, as if you are peeking in to see what the inside of a spaceship looks like, and seeing what is seen on DVD.


----------



## toyroy

Lloyd Collins said:


> Toyroy, I didn't explain right what I plan. I mean any details other than what Moebius has in the model. I like the idea of looking inside through the windows, as if you are peeking in to see what the inside of a spaceship looks like, and seeing what is seen on DVD.


I think I understood you. I have no objection to your display or options approach; I just think relatively more modelers will want to keep the upper hull easily removable. The interior, even built stock, will just blow everyone's socks off- but it is impossible to truly appreciate it all, by looking through the viewports.


----------



## DaDragon

toyroy said:


> I think I understood you. I have no objection to your display or options approach; I just think relatively more modelers will want to keep the upper hull easily removable. The interior, even built stock, will just blow everyone's socks off- but it is impossible to truly appreciate it all, by looking through the viewports.


Soooo true. Even if no "behind the walls" detailing is planned, fabrication of an 'inner skin' to block the empty sections off will be required, rather than displaying vast empty spaces when the top is removed.

Of course the really ambitious could try inserting clear panels into the upper hull to create a cutaway look. 

Graham.


----------



## Seaview

toyroy said:


> ...- but it is impossible to truly appreciate it all, by looking through the viewports.


Very true. However, the only wall not fully visible through the viewport (and the porthole) is the communications station next to the airlock. :dude:


----------



## m jamieson

I wonder if it would be feasible to hide a small lipstick video camera looking through one of the rear hatch doors (eg.space pod) It would give one an inside view of the J2 when it's all lit up and with an innovative base the wiring would never show. It would be something to fill that lone empty video input on the tv, or tap it into the home security system so you can check to see if Dr. Smith is up to no good again. "Honey, did you see the remote?..I want to see what's on the 'Robinsons Channel' tonight !"
It would be a fun challenge! Lionel did it with some of it's trains (HO scale even) so why not with a few models. If you get really bored, you could cover yourself with palm tree bark put on a goofy wig and actually 'Be' the cyclops peering into your J2!..or your seaview for that matter!


----------



## Seaview

m jamieson said:


> It would be a fun challenge! Lionel did it with some of it's trains (HO scale even) so why not with a few models. If you get really bored, you could cover yourself with palm tree bark put on a goofy wig and actually 'Be' the cyclops peering into your J2!..or your seaview for that matter!


 
Actually, that idea would have merit with a large-scale kit of a certain IA-related orange sub-orbital passsenger craft that I hope will someday become a Moebius reality. :wave:


----------



## m jamieson

I thought the same thing...but didn't want to mention it since it wasn't a current or planned Moebius model!


----------



## toyroy

Seaview said:


> ...the only wall not fully visible through the viewport (and the porthole) is the communications station next to the airlock.


You also don't get to see much of the cockpit itself, or the airlock.


----------



## toyroy

DaDragon said:


> ...Even if no "behind the walls" detailing is planned, fabrication of an 'inner skin' to block the empty sections off will be required, rather than displaying vast empty spaces when the top is removed.
> 
> Of course the really ambitious could try inserting clear panels into the upper hull to create a cutaway look.


I think I'd just spray the areas outside the set flat black. Either that, or cut the upper hull along the same lines as the PL model.


----------



## toyroy

m jamieson said:


> I wonder if it would be feasible to hide a small lipstick video camera looking through one of the rear hatch doors (eg.space pod) It would give one an inside view of the J2 when it's all lit up...





Seaview said:


> ...that idea would have merit with a...certain IA-related orange sub-orbital passsenger craft...


Do you mean pointed at the viewport from behind the controls, a la "Giant-Cam"?


----------



## Steve244

I'm considering a "City Beneath the Sea" diorama/hamster habitat.


----------



## Richard Baker

Forget the Chrome version PL did of their kit- if a special edition is ever madeof this new kit I want a clear hull!


----------



## John P

Steve244 said:


> I'm considering a "City Beneath the Sea" diorama/hamster habitat.


I don't even have a hamster and I want one of those!


----------



## bert model maker

I have the Pl j2 and wish there were enough room for all the lighting wires. With the new Jupiter 2, there will be. I plan on taking pictures and then displaying them along side the model just as i had to do with my Pl j-2's lower deck since it is a major pain to show someone the lower deck & putting it all back together. I have my lower viewport cut out however, what can be seen is very limited.


----------



## Zorro

Steve244 said:


> I'm considering a "City Beneath the Sea" diorama/hamster habitat.


My daughter has two hamsters and that sound like a very good idea. As long as it _leaks_ just a bit.


----------



## phantom11

I LOVE this kit!! It's absolutely perfect; I stood at Moebius' table at Wonderfest, watching the video of the prototype over and over, not believing what I was seeing but overjoyed that I WAS seeing it.

Got my preorder in; this baby is MINE. Thank you to all at Moebius for making this happen; you're all KINGS in my book!!


----------



## kdaracal

*Wonderfest Video*

*Is this Wondrfest video I've heard so much about concerning the Jupiter II available through any venue? IE: YouTube, etc?? I'd love to see it!
Kinley*:wave:


----------



## Lloyd Collins

I like the camera idea, that way the whole interior will be seen. 

It looks so unnatural to look from the open hull. Through the windows, you get a real life view of what it would be like if it was real.


----------



## Dar

Lloyd Collins said:


> I like the camera idea, that way the whole interior will be seen.
> 
> It looks so unnatural to look from the open hull. Through the windows, you get a real life view of what it would be like if it was real.



Neat idea. But expensive im sure. I will be spending enough money on aftermarkets for this kit.:lol: Im not about to buy a camera so I can see the whole interior without taking off the top. I sure much of the interior will be visible through the windows. Its cheaper that way. :lol:


----------



## Richard Baker

Maybe one of those cameras designed to fit on top of a laptop screen would work. You could hide the USB plug in a landing gear well and they are small enough to tuck on to a wall- maybe behind the Space Pod hatch window looking in...

Just an idea.


----------



## Lloyd Collins

I have a web camera I don't use, I could gut it to save space, and mount in on a wall or such to see the interior. Just the lense in the wall.

Posted after you,Richard.


----------



## m jamieson

Yes...I knew it wouldn't be cheap! Just an idea for the one or two people who always go to the limit with their models. You know who you are...you will have every light done with fiber optics so the panel lights will blink individually..the elevator and hatches slide by remote and the landing gear fold up electrically, just about everything but actually take off. They will be few in number, but they will be gorgeous and an inspiration to what can be done if one just wants to go a little bit farther. It won't be me mind you...but someone could take an $100 aftermarket back-up camera for a car with a wide field of view and a great depth of field and create Jupiter2-cam. Me..I'm putting my time in on how to get it to take off! lol where does one find that deutronium anyway?


----------



## toyroy

One could mount fiber optic "lenses" in key locations, and switch the camera between them. Or, remove the dome, and extend a camera down to "eye" level, just above the astrogator. Rig it so it can pan and tilt.


----------



## m jamieson

toyroy said:


> One could mount fiber optic "lenses" in key locations, and switch the camera between them. Or, remove the dome, and extend a camera down to "eye" level, just above the astrogator. Rig it so it can pan and tilt.


I love the thinking outside the box!


----------



## toyroy

toyroy said:


> One could mount fiber optic "lenses" in key locations, and switch the camera between them. Or, remove the dome, and extend a camera down to "eye" level, just above the astrogator. Rig it so it can pan and tilt.





m jamieson said:


> I love the thinking outside the box!


OK, so I stole the dome idea from the way they filmed the flight deck during the third season...


----------



## robiwon

kdaracal said:


> *Is this Wondrfest video I've heard so much about concerning the Jupiter II available through any venue? IE: YouTube, etc?? I'd love to see it!
> Kinley*:wave:


The "video" was a slide show of pictures of the prototype.


----------



## starseeker

Ron Gross, if you're still lurking or reading: I've been fooling around with various overlays of the Moebius profile posted on page 3 of this thread, with the blueprints of the 10', and with your profiles from the Cultman site. 
The profile of the shooting miniature that you did Way Back then is an almost perfect match for the new Moebius profile. In fact, given scanners, printers, screens, I don't know if any argument can be made that there is any actual difference. Amazing job!
Both lower hull profiles - your "filming" profile and the Moebius - are about 1/2 way between the blueprint profile of the new 10' compared to the Gemini 12. There are other significant differences - the G12 had the wider and deeper viewports and the much larger dome on a proud base, and even overlaying photos of the miniatures, it's possible that the G12 may have shared the Moebius/your J2 upper hull shape, but the Moebius/your lower hull profile is so close to the G12, except for the smaller diameter flashing light unit, that it makes me wonder why Fox bothered to alter the lower hull. (The smaller light unit alters the appearance much more than the dimensions do.) With a 24" diameter, the G12 lower hull blue is only 1/4" shallower than your/Moebius profile and the J2 blue profile is only 1/4" deeper than yours. 
On Cult, you mention that the revised Fox blues were or may have been followed for some of the miniatures. Is it possible that some of the miniatures really did match the deeper Fox blueprint lower hull shape?
Edit: one reason I'm asking, I'm thinking of starting a on a G12 lower hull to have all ready when I get my Christmas presents. Now I'm wondering if such a subtle difference would even be noticeable to the human eye and whether I shouldn't just build a new light unit and leave the lower deck mods at that.


----------



## EJD1984

Gary K, I'm wondering if you've worked out a provision as to access from the flight deck to the landing gear door?
(sorry, it's just the engineer in me.......lol)

I'm going to order two, one for practice, and to showcase.


----------



## robiwon

When is this going to be announced on the Moebius website?


----------



## RSN

Starseeker, I found that when I modified the PL Jupiter II in to the Gemini XII, just making the viewport larger and a bigger fusion core gave the model a completely different look to the original. I would say a new lower hull would not be necessary to achieve the "look" of the Gemini XII. Considering the debate about blueprints to filming miniature, it is a subjective call by the builder.

Ron Nastrom


----------



## starseeker

Great looking build!!! Thanks! I'm definitely leaning toward the non-mod for the G12, or, leaning, but somewhat less, toward both a new G12 and a new J2 lower hull so that there is a visible difference between the two. You main view ports, they're wider than a 1/8 section, aren't they?


----------



## RSN

starseeker said:


> Great looking build!!! Thanks! I'm definitely leaning toward the non-mod for the G12, or, leaning, but somewhat less, toward both a new G12 and a new J2 lower hull so that there is a visible difference between the two. You main view ports, they're wider than a 1/8 section, aren't they?


Thank you. Yes, they are. When I lowered them, they didn't have the right proportions. I kept drawing them wider and wider until they looked like the miniature on the launch cradle. This created a problem; I was scratch building an interior! Solution? Forced perspective, as the sections got further around to the back, I slightly shortened them until I got to the one bay that was not built for the set at the very back of the deck. You can see it when the lid is off, but through the viewport, the illusion is there.

Ron


----------



## Ron Gross

starseeker said:


> Ron Gross, if you're still lurking or reading: I've been fooling around with various overlays of the Moebius profile posted on page 3 of this thread, with the blueprints of the 10', and with your profiles from the Cultman site.
> The profile of the shooting miniature that you did Way Back then is an almost perfect match for the new Moebius profile. In fact, given scanners, printers, screens, I don't know if any argument can be made that there is any actual difference. Amazing job!
> Both lower hull profiles - your "filming" profile and the Moebius - are about 1/2 way between the blueprint profile of the new 10' compared to the Gemini 12. There are other significant differences - the G12 had the wider and deeper viewports and the much larger dome on a proud base, and even overlaying photos of the miniatures, it's possible that the G12 may have shared the Moebius/your J2 upper hull shape, but the Moebius/your lower hull profile is so close to the G12, except for the smaller diameter flashing light unit, that it makes me wonder why Fox bothered to alter the lower hull. (The smaller light unit alters the appearance much more than the dimensions do.) With a 24" diameter, the G12 lower hull blue is only 1/4" shallower than your/Moebius profile and the J2 blue profile is only 1/4" deeper than yours.
> On Cult, you mention that the revised Fox blues were or may have been followed for some of the miniatures. Is it possible that some of the miniatures really did match the deeper Fox blueprint lower hull shape?
> Edit: one reason I'm asking, I'm thinking of starting a on a G12 lower hull to have all ready when I get my Christmas presents. Now I'm wondering if such a subtle difference would even be noticeable to the human eye and whether I shouldn't just build a new light unit and leave the lower deck mods at that.


First of all, of course I'm still lurking and reading. No one is going to get rid of me that easily!

Second, thanks very much for your comments regarding my work "way back then." I guess I am sort of proud that it has held up as more or less the standard for all these years. But now I'm more than willing to defer to the Moebius design, which is derived from an actual physical scan. Hopefully my original efforts also served a purpose, and made the PL J2 a better product than it otherwise might have been.

As for the discussion of the lower hull profile, it is my belief that once the original prop makers got past the G12 concept, it was always their intention to follow the revised plan on all subsequent models. That's not to say that this was always the result, as there were certain anomalies that often developed during the construction phase. I think that Gary offered a reasonable explanation in post #177 of the other J2 thread, which can be seen here: http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=252626&page=12

Thanks again,
Ron G.


----------



## JPhil123

RSN said:


> Starseeker, I found that when I modified the PL Jupiter II in to the Gemini XII, just making the viewport larger and a bigger fusion core gave the model a completely different look to the original. I would say a new lower hull would not be necessary to achieve the "look" of the Gemini XII. Considering the debate about blueprints to filming miniature, it is a subjective call by the builder.
> 
> Ron Nastrom


Hello,
I was sort of thinking the same thing. I do plan to build a standard Jupiter 2 from the Moebius Model, but I still want a Gemini XII that is larger than the one I have that was built from a Polar Lights J2 kit. It also looks to me that the new model could be the answer.

One more thing...since there will obviously be after market kits for the Moebius Models Jupiter 2, maybe someone might do after market pieces conversion of the kit to the Gemini XII. Since much of the conversion work entails removal of hull details, as well as interior control room modifications, an accurate G12 style fusion core, G12 style hatch, and a G12 window frame to hold new clear pieces would be what I would like to see...I can dream anyhow.

Regards,
Jim


----------



## toyroy

starseeker said:


> On (CultTVman's site,) you mention that the revised Fox blues were or may have been followed for some of the miniatures. Is it possible that some of the miniatures really did match the deeper Fox blueprint lower hull shape?...





Ron Gross said:


> ...As for the discussion of the lower hull profile, it is my belief that once the original prop makers got past the G12 concept, it was always their intention to follow the revised plan on all subsequent models. That's not to say that this was always the result...


At the end of "The Derelict", there is an interesting sequence of three shots. I think each shows a different miniature. The first shows one miniature exiting the derelict ship. It appears to have the G12 lower hull and core, but also the J2 porthole and lower viewport. The next shot is of the J2 moving straight across the screen. This J2 miniature looks to me to have about the deepest lower hull of all the miniatures. The following shot originally was separated by a commercial, and is clearly G12 footage from the first pilot(note the "glow".)

Which miniature was used in this second shot, and does it still exist? It appears that the model was supported from behind, and rotated about a fixed point; you can see the viewport shift as the ship flies by.


----------



## spocks beard

Ron Gross said:


> Thanks, everyone, for the comments. The pic on Steve's site looks like it's from the poster that Frank had made for WonderFest. Unfortunately, most of the blue hues did not make it onto this print, sort of like a faded film strip. So I am taking the liberty of posting a small image of the actual work, while I will leave it up to Frank to post something more substantial when he thinks the time is right. Hopefully the final box design will accurately reflect the work this time (please, not another PL situation)!
> 
> I am also posting a composite resource image, which I thought might be of some interest. The landscape photo was taken by Jef Furtado at the Trona Pinnacles, where much of the original J2 SFX work was originally shot. The B&W inset photo is of my own scratch build. I anticipated that the final design of the Moebius model would be close enough to my own work to justify this decision. The actual art was completed well over a year ago.
> 
> As for the subject of posters, they would likely have to be promotional in nature due to the terms of the license, etc. But we did it once at WF, and so I don't see why that same experience couldn't be duplicated.
> Ron G.


Beautiful artwork sir!:thumbsup::thumbsup:


----------



## Y3a

I heard that the lower deck window on the small Gemini12/J2 model was actually metallic tape added to the model before filming.


----------



## Y3a

"Which miniature was used in this second shot, and does it still exist? It appears that the model was supported from behind, and rotated about a fixed point; you can see the viewport shift as the ship flies by."

That model was the 4 foot hero just sitting on a pedestal painted with bluescreen paint. They panned the camera slowly to imply motion. You can see the matte lines and poor optical printing around the fusion core and outer edges of the image.


----------



## EJD1984

starseeker said:


> Great looking build!!! Thanks! I'm definitely leaning toward the non-mod for the G12, or, leaning, but somewhat less, toward both a new G12 and a new J2 lower hull so that there is a visible difference between the two. You main view ports, they're wider than a 1/8 section, aren't they?


The window looks about the right 1/8 width to me. I think it's just an optical illusion due to the larger height of the window.


----------



## toyroy

Y3a said:


> "Which miniature was used in this second shot, and does it still exist? It appears that the model was supported from behind, and rotated about a fixed point; you can see the viewport shift as the ship flies by."
> 
> That model was the 4 foot hero just sitting on a pedestal painted with bluescreen paint. They panned the camera slowly to imply motion. You can see the matte lines and poor optical printing around the fusion core and outer edges of the image.


Granted, it sounds like the simplest shooting solution, but I don't believe panning can account for the extent of viewport movement seen. A tracking shot could. And I don't think that's the hero. It's lower hull just looks too deep- almost pointed.


----------



## Richard Baker

toyroy said:


> Granted, it sounds like the simplest shooting solution, but I don't believe panning can account for the extent of viewport movement seen. A tracking shot could. And I don't think that's the hero. It's lower hull just looks too deep- almost pointed.


What if the model was rotated during the shot?


----------



## RSN

EJD1984 said:


> The window looks about the right 1/8 width to me. I think it's just an optical illusion due to the larger height of the window.


No optical illusion on my build, it is bigger than 1/8. Probably was on the G XII filming miniature as well, not sure.


----------



## RSN

Y3a said:


> I heard that the lower deck window on the small Gemini12/J2 model was actually metallic tape added to the model before filming.


Not sure this is accurate, considering it was shown open and back-lit as the Jupiter II entered the Derelict ship in the episode of the same name.


----------



## RSN

Y3a said:


> "Which miniature was used in this second shot, and does it still exist? It appears that the model was supported from behind, and rotated about a fixed point; you can see the viewport shift as the ship flies by."
> 
> That model was the 4 foot hero just sitting on a pedestal painted with bluescreen paint. They panned the camera slowly to imply motion. You can see the matte lines and poor optical printing around the fusion core and outer edges of the image.


Very little true blue screen work was used on "Lost in Space". Most effects were shot live on a stage with a star background. The Jupiter II was suspended from wires, not on a blue screen stand. Some crude matting work was used in the pilot and in the first few episodes, the most obvious blue screen shot appeared in year three "Visit to a Hostile Planet", in the time warp.


----------



## RSN

*Mystery Profile*

I believe this is the hull profile in question. It is the same shot as in "The Derelict", only matted to a different background for "Island in the Sky". Judging by the thickness of the round port depressions, it appears to be smaller in scale than the 4 foot model.


----------



## starseeker

Probably the most edge on shot of the G12 that I have. In every picture I have, the main viewports are considerably wider than the J2. Even if some of it is due to lens distortion, just measure the size of the center window, width vs height, and you'll see how much bigger than the J2s they have to be. 
I have to check out No Place to Hide. In Stowaway, what appears to be the (16"?) G12 mini has the smaller, clear upper dome with no surrounding ring. Was the big dome and base added during restoration or was a feature of just the 4'?
In Derelict it appears to be the 12"-ish J2 orbiting the derelict and entering the clamshell doors. Its upper and lower deck windows are lit from within as seen from within the alien spaceship. Note how the small, light model is wobbling and that there isn't any interior in the upper deck visible. Then a quick cut to the 4' with its false interior clearly visible.
Definitely 3 J2s in the moments after leaving the alien spaceship. I can't tell if one seems to have a deeper lower hull but it definitely seems to have a wider core. Wondering how much of that might be due to the core fins being extended. Not enough, I don't think. 
After several years of being awol, just found my 1989 LIS Handbook by Mike Clark where it had fallen behind some kit boxes. He says: "Models of the [J2] ranging in size from four inches to four feet were built for the miniature effects... Star fields were photographs... onto which the model was matted. 'The miniature was always flown hanging from three wires and suspended from a sound boom', Abbott recalls. 'The power for the ship's lights was supplied through the suspension wires.'"
He also says that "William Creber had completed the basic shell structure of the Robinson's space ship... before turning it over to...Robert Kinoshita... Kinoshita finalized the exterior and designed the interior of the ship." I always thought it was the other way around.


----------



## starseeker

I was just going to try to get a screen grab of that my self. And compare it to the blueprint for the 10'. The red is Ron Gross' Jupiter 2, image which is copyright by him and I used w/o permission but I was playing with it yesterday and it was handy and his profile is virtually spot on Gary Kerr's Moebius kit profile. The very faint pencil lines are the J2 shape from the blueprint of the 10'. And your grab is underneath. There are any number of possible sources of distortion in getting from camera to TV to computer etc, so for all practical purposes I think it's safe to say that the upper hull profile on that mini looks close to spot on with every elses. But that bottom hull really is a fatty! Good eye, ToyRoy! If it really was supported by three wires, possibly the model was rotating slightly as they filmed it?


----------



## Y3a

RSN said:


> Not sure this is accurate, considering it was shown open and back-lit as the Jupiter II entered the Derelict ship in the episode of the same name.


No. The reflective metal tape just reflected the light. No detail in the lower level. Look again. same for the matte Hero panning cross the star background.


----------



## Y3a

RSN said:


> I believe this is the hull profile in question. It is the same shot as in "The Derelict", only matted to a different background for "Island in the Sky". Judging by the thickness of the round port depressions, it appears to be smaller in scale than the 4 foot model.


Perhaps the matte edges are making it look different? It's been photographed at a different speed than the boom shots.


----------



## Y3a

RSN said:


> Very little true blue screen work was used on "Lost in Space". Most effects were shot live on a stage with a star background. The Jupiter II was suspended from wires, not on a blue screen stand. Some crude matting work was used in the pilot and in the first few episodes, the most obvious blue screen shot appeared in year three "Visit to a Hostile Planet", in the time warp.


The shot in Derelict where the j2 is panned across the screen instead of on a boom was one of those shots. You can see the bad matte around the bottom of the ship, and this was most likely a shot taken from the pilot.


----------



## toyroy

I needed proof of this viewport width difference. Well, here it is:

[IMG-LEFT]http://photos.hobbytalk.com/data/509/j2-g12.jpg[/IMG-LEFT]























Both photos by Jim Key. I needed to tilt the G12 a bit to level it, and I reduced the J2 to match the G12 diameter.


----------



## starseeker

I could have written off that screen grab of the fatty as possibly some kind of distortion but here is the fatty again. This is a screen grab from either Blast Off Into or from the fx on LIS Forever or Anthology or the DVD set. Whatever, it's an identical match to the lower hull shape to the screen grab above. I was sure that this was a 4'. If this was, that would imply that there were 4' J2s with different lower hull profiles. Which would be wonderful, because then one could model a fatty and a G12 and the difference in shapes would be really obvious.


----------



## toyroy

toyroy said:


> ...It appears that the model was supported from behind, and rotated about a fixed point; you can see the viewport shift as the ship flies by.





Richard Baker said:


> What if the model was rotated during the shot?





starseeker said:


> ...If it really was supported by three wires, possibly the model was rotating slightly as they filmed it?


In light of the orbit version of the shot, rotating the model while panning actually makes some sense. They simply re-used the shot against the star backround, for "The Derelict."


----------



## jbond

I think the ships in the orbital shots were small models--on the Lost in Space Forever DVD there's footage of Art Cruikshank or someone rigging up a model that looks like it's a foot or so across that's hanging right in front of a huge planet painting or photographic enlargement. From what I can see the vast majority of miniature shots in LIS were done in camera with little nor no compositing--the only obvious composited shot I can think of is the "space whirlpool" shot seen in the end credits of some episodes with the rear of the J2 rotating in front of a magenta space anomaly. I think they established this approach very early on with the meteor storm in the pilot episode where practical debris was dropped on the J2 miniature so that it could bounce right off the hull--that would have been a nightmare to composite or rotoscope so the model was just suspended in front of a star background and it was all done in camera. When you watch the effects outtakes on that DVD all the elements--stars, planets, burning suns, whatever, are right there on the screen.


----------



## halcyon_daze

Fabgearusa now taking pre-orders for $99.95.


----------



## Opus Penguin

I'll go with CultTVMan. He has a cheaper pre-order price


----------



## starseeker

jbond said:


> I think the ships in the orbital shots were small models--on the Lost in Space Forever DVD there's footage of Art Cruikshank or someone rigging up a model that looks like it's a foot or so across that's hanging right in front of a huge planet painting or photographic enlargement. From what I can see the vast majority of miniature shots in LIS were done in camera with little nor no compositing--the only obvious composited shot I can think of is the "space whirlpool" shot seen in the end credits of some episodes with the rear of the J2 rotating in front of a magenta space anomaly.


The 12'ish J2 was a really horrible little model - it's the one with the very rounded center edge and the huge seam that shows up in so many photos. It also has what appears to be a G12 sized fusion core. 
Here's an ancient publicity photo of the Pod going down to the same planet. When I first got it as a kid, I was so surprised to see how visible the the wires were. The stars were five pointed Christmas glitter that they sprayed with some kind of adhesive and threw against the black velvet background cloth.


----------



## mrdean

starseeker said:


> The 12'ish J2 was a really horrible little model - it's the one with the very rounded center edge and the huge seam that shows up in so many photos. It also has what appears to be a G12 sized fusion core.
> Here's an ancient publicity photo of the Pod going down to the same planet. When I first got it as a kid, I was so surprised to see how visible the the wires were. The stars were five pointed Christmas glitter that they sprayed with some kind of adhesive and threw against the black velvet background cloth.


For a campy 60's show for kids, they did great!

For the time and technology I think it was and still is tons of fun! 

Mark D


----------



## m jamieson

mrdean said:


> For a campy 60's show for kids, they did great!
> 
> For the time and technology I think it was and still is tons of fun!
> 
> Mark D


Yup...that's why were all building models of it 40 years later!


----------



## Y3a




----------



## EJD1984

toyroy said:


> I needed proof of this viewport width difference. Well, here it is:
> 
> [IMG-LEFT]http://photos.hobbytalk.com/data/509/j2-g12.jpg[/IMG-LEFT]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Both photos by Jim Key. I needed to tilt the G12 a bit to level it, and I reduced the J2 to match the G12 diameter.


I'd be curious to see a top view comparison and to see what the angle degree differences between the two (radial dia as well).


----------



## toyroy

EJD1984 said:


> I'd be curious to see a top view comparison and to see what the angle degree differences between the two (radial dia as well).


Note that the break between the hull sides and top are the same on both hulls, so it's an easy calculation.

Roughly, the J2 is about 44 degrees, and the G12 is about 50 degrees.


----------



## toyroy

I don't know why the G12 miniature had a viewport larger than forty five degrees. Perhaps, it was made before the interior was designed. But you'll notice that the G12 viewport is never shown in full frontal view, unlike that of the J2_(as shown, for instance, in Y3a's avatar.)_ From this, I think we are to assume the viewport is consistent with the interior set, and therefore, a little under 45 degrees. This is the way I would build a G12 model, rather than to duplicate a mistake on the prop.


----------



## starseeker

Here is the blueprint for the 10' Gemini 12 / Jupiter 2 from the LIS Tech Manual, the one half view copied and flipped to make a whole front view.


----------



## starseeker

Here is the above blueprint placed over top of the best edge on shot of the G12 that I have. The top of the hull, upper sides, and upper half of the lower hull are very good matches. The bottom of the hull is lost to the camera angle. But the profile seems close enough to what the blueprint indicates is the existing profile. So I'd be happy with considering that blueprint an accurate representation of the G12 hull.


----------



## starseeker

Toyroy pointed out a Jupiter 2 with a thicker lower deck that other Jupiter 2s. I put the blueprint over top of one grab. It matches the blueprint's profile of the entire J2, upper and lower hulls, very closely.


----------



## g_xii

toyroy said:


> I don't know why the G12 miniature had a viewport larger than forty five degrees. Perhaps, it was made before the interior was designed. But you'll notice that the G12 viewport is never shown in full frontal view, unlike that of the J2. From this, I think we are to assume the viewport is consistent with the interior set, and therefore, a little under 45 degrees. This is the way I would build a G12 model, rather than to duplicate a mistake on the prop.


ToyRoy --

Take a look at these photos -- both the full size set and the best one I have of the G12 miniature that shows the most of the viewport. In both, it looks like the viewport is larger than on the J2. But, I've also heard stories about how the crashsite J2 ship/set was built over top of the pilot crashsite ship, so who knows!

--Henry


----------



## starseeker

I also got a grab of a fx sequence of a Jupiter 2 taking off from a planet and laid the blueprint over top of that as well. Again, the blueprint matches the profile very closely.

So, from two separate sequences, there is a Jupiter 2 miniature with a thicker lower hull that matches the published blueprints very closely. 
Gary, Ron - I know that you have taken your profiles from specific shots from the show and from an existing 4' miniature and have described a lower hull profile that matches each other's extremely closely. Yours is about 1/2 way between the G12 and J2 profiles described by the blueprint. Do you think the two hulls above are of a different miniature than the one(s) you studied/measured? Was there perhaps a smaller miniature with landing gear for the lift off sequence captured? Or is it possible that there was a 4' hero with a deeper lower hull shape than other 4' miniatures, one that was accurate to the drawings? 
This is in no way shape form to be thought of as a criticism of your J2 designs. You have perfectly captured the shape of a Jupiter 2 (was it the pod dropper?). I'm just wondering now if there isn't a Jupiter 2, possibly even another 4'er, with a different shape? But that makes little sense to me. I would have thought that they all came from the same master. They have to be different sizes. Don't they???


----------



## toyroy

g_xii said:


> Take a look at these photos -- both the full size set and the best one I have of the G12 miniature that shows the most of the viewport. In both, it looks like the viewport is larger than on the J2...


The viewport in your pics is visibly taller. The bottom sill is lower, and the upper sill may even be higher, too- especially on the full size set. Are you saying you can tell from these pics, that the viewport is _wider_ than the J2?


----------



## g_xii

toyroy said:


> The viewport in your pics is visibly taller. The bottom sill is lower, and the upper sill may even be higher, too- especially on the full size set. Are you saying you can tell from these pics, that the viewport is _wider_ than the J2?


I'm not SAYING anything, bud! Just sharing some pics and getting your opinions! If I was to express an opinion, I would say the viewport is wider as well, but that is from years of viewing and not from these particular photos. They individual ports / panes from the total viewport actually do look wider than on the J2 (in these photos) but who can say for sure?

--H


----------



## Antimatter

halcyon_daze said:


> Fabgearusa now taking pre-orders for $99.95.


Fabgearusa is alway's higher.


----------



## toyroy

g_xii said:


> ...Just sharing some pics and getting your opinions...


Well, alrighty then!  I already gave my view on the viewport issue. I understand that, given the common use of G12-proportioned miniatures throughout the entire series, many Jupiter 2 lovers will have a wide-viewport, and/or lower-silled viewport preference. 

With regard to the J2 lower hull profile, my personal preference leans to the lean. But again, there _were_ miniatures used with much deeper-dish lower hulls, as I cited in a recent post. So it doesn't surprise me, that some favor this profile.


----------



## RSN

toyroy said:


> Well, alrighty then!  I already gave my view on the viewport issue. I understand that, given the common use of G12-proportioned miniatures throughout the entire series, many Jupiter 2 lovers will have a wide-viewport, and/or lower-silled viewport preference.
> 
> With regard to the J2 lower hull profile, my personal preference leans to the lean. But again, there _were_ miniatures used with much deeper-dish lower hulls, as I cited in a recent post. So it doesn't surprise me, that some favor this profile.


I am with you toyroy, there is no definitive Jupiter II to base a model from, just an amalgamation of what was built and used on screen. Moebius is giving us just such a kit, incorporating as much as they can to give a GREAT!!! representation, inside and out of this ship. Not everyone will be happy too be sure. I, like you, prefer the almost flat bottom of the GXII, as seen in the crash footage, but this may not be everyone’s cup of tea. For those wishing for more, dust off those scratch building skills and have at it. I have done this with almost every model I have built, buying very little after market kits. It saves money, hones your skills, and is very satisfying. December is to far away!


----------



## Mark Dorais

starseeker said:


> I also got a grab of a fx sequence of a Jupiter 2 taking off from a planet and laid the blueprint over top of that as well. Again, the blueprint matches the profile very closely.
> 
> So, from two separate sequences, there is a Jupiter 2 miniature with a thicker lower hull that matches the published blueprints very closely.
> Gary, Ron - I know that you have taken your profiles from specific shots from the show and from an existing 4' miniature and have described a lower hull profile that matches each other's extremely closely. Yours is about 1/2 way between the G12 and J2 profiles described by the blueprint. Do you think the two hulls above are of a different miniature than the one(s) you studied/measured? Was there perhaps a smaller miniature with landing gear for the lift off sequence captured? Or is it possible that there was a 4' hero with a deeper lower hull shape than other 4' miniatures, one that was accurate to the drawings?
> This is in no way shape form to be thought of as a criticism of your J2 designs. You have perfectly captured the shape of a Jupiter 2 (was it the pod dropper?). I'm just wondering now if there isn't a Jupiter 2, possibly even another 4'er, with a different shape? But that makes little sense to me. I would have thought that they all came from the same master. They have to be different sizes. Don't they???


THANK GOD Moebius is not going to use the blueprint to make this upcoming model........Lunar Models pretty much followed this blueprint faithfully for their 24 inch kit ..........the result was "pleasant".....but certainly does not have fidelity or the aesthetic grace of the Hero 4 foot's subtle contours that most of us love. Since Gary Kerr has faithfully measured the casting of the 4 ft. hero's hull, it will be a glorious shape to work with modified or built as is.:thumbsup:


----------



## starseeker

I'm just wondering if it's not THE 4' hero's hull, but A 4' hero's hull. As for the subtle contours that most of us love, I just went through all my own and all Uncle Odie's collection of J2 photos for the 900th time, and I can't find a grab or photo of a J2 there that doesn't closely match the blueprint's either G12 or J2 shape. Except for the 12"(?), which seems to have a J2 hull and G12 core. I love the J2 and it's shape, but I'm becoming increasingly puzzled by the fact that all the J2 shapes from screen grabs (ie what we have always seen on screen) that I overlay the blueprint on match the blueprint. At this point, I'm getting vaguely desperate. Instead of just telling me that there were subtle differences, can you or someone overlay the Moebius shape on a screen grab (the whole series is out on DVD and VHS so if its something we all love, it has to be easy to find???) or a photo of a miniature and match up the two outlines? All I want to know is, which miniature was it and, more importantly, in which episode or sequence did we actually see it? Please?
Edit: I found one! 
Just after I wrote the above, I remembered the LIS Anthology CD. The grabs on line are too small to work with but there's a nice edge on shot of a J2 landing on the CD. It seems to have THE PERFECT between the G12 and J2 blueprint profile to the lower hull that RG/GK plotted. This has to be the 4' that was mapped . As for every other picture I've grabbed so far showing much closer or close to exactly the blueprint profile: obviously there were different J2 shapes used on screen all the time. In which case the the grace and subtle contours we all know and love are really just a matter of personal preference and the decades long search for perfect J2... well, since I've been doing it for decades my own self, I'm not going to call it a fool's quest. It's Good to know that various miniatures had various shapes, perhaps even miniatures the same size (there were what? - 5 four footers that showed up on City Beneath the Sea? I refuse to even think about what other shapes that might have been out there). I'm really, really happy that Moebius has captured one of them seemingly perfectly. Indeed, a holy grail of model kits that I can hardly wait to get my hot little hands on. Three of them now (sigh) - one for each bottom hull (what do you mean, I'm an anal retentive perfectionist???). Oh, boy, I'm going to have to find some good sales. If you're in Canada, Karen Lee Hobbies has great bulk prices on Moebius...


----------



## Mark Dorais

starseeker said:


> I'm just wondering if it's not THE 4' hero's hull, but A 4' hero's hull. As for the subtle contours that most of us love, I just went through all my own and all Uncle Odie's collection of J2 photos for the 900th time, and I can't find a grab or photo of a J2 there that doesn't closely match the blueprint's either G12 or J2 shape. Except for the 12"(?), which seems to have a J2 hull and G12 core. I love the J2 and it's shape, but I'm becoming increasingly puzzled by the fact that all the J2 shapes from screen grabs (ie what we have always seen on screen) that I overlay the blueprint on match the blueprint. At this point, I'm getting vaguely desperate. Instead of just telling me that there were subtle differences, can you or someone overlay the Moebius shape on a screen grab (the whole series is out on DVD and VHS so if its something we all love, it has to be easy to find???) or a photo of a miniature and match up the two outlines? All I want to know is, which miniature was it and, more importantly, in which episode or sequence did we actually see it? Please?


Dear Starseeker...I was informed from a very good source that the circulating 4 foot castings were in fact pulled from the original 4ft hero-"landing gear" miniature while they watched. You are correct, in the fact that there are several differences between the two four foot ie." spacepod launching" and " landing gear" J-2s. The Spacepod launching version has a subtle stepped planed roof with a flatish top. As Ron Gross has pointed out in the past, The way the miniatures were filmed can alter or distort what we see on the screen at times.


----------



## m jamieson

Sounds like a opening for someone to aftermarket two additional lower level hull pieces, since that appears to be what changed the most. A Gemini XII and the "Fatty" that matches the 10' plans and some screen grabs. Moebius will be selling a lot more J2's for those who want them all!


----------



## Y3a

The Hero was dropped off the boom sometime between year 2 and 3. The fusion core was replaced with the chaser version at that time. Could the repaired damage be what is giving the lower level that fat look? Perhaps the Pod implied a fatter lower deck?


----------



## toyroy

Mark Dorais said:


> ...The Spacepod launching (four-footer) has a subtle stepped planed roof with a flatish top...


I thought I read someplace that the pod dropper didn't have a hull top, at the time of the series.


----------



## Gary K

starseeker said:


> I love the J2 and it's shape, but I'm becoming increasingly puzzled by the fact that all the J2 shapes from screen grabs (ie what we have always seen on screen) that I overlay the blueprint on match the blueprint. At this point, I'm getting vaguely desperate. Instead of just telling me that there were subtle differences, can you or someone overlay the Moebius shape on a screen grab (the whole series is out on DVD and VHS so if its something we all love, it has to be easy to find???) or a photo of a miniature and match up the two outlines?


You've got to take measurements of the Jupiter 2 models made from photos or screen caps with a large grain of salt, since parallax is conspiring against you to make the model look narrower & taller than it actually is. Years ago, I learned this the hard way when I was measuring a photo of the bridge of the Pilot version of the TOS Enterprise for my blueprints.

The following two overhead illustrations show how parallax makes an object seem narrower than it really is. The camera doesn't "see" the actual diameter of the J2 model; instead, it sees to a point *tangent to* to curve of the hull. The distortion gets worse with wider angle lenses and/or the closer the camera is to the model. 



















This side view illustration, with the camera 15' from the J2 model and lined up with the model's waist, shows how parallax can make parts of a model appear taller than they actually is. The closer a part of the model is to the camera, the more its apparent height changes. Wider angle lenses & a lesser distance between the camera and the model make the distortion worse.











You can minimize the parallax distortions by using a telephoto lens, but then you run into problems with the depth of field. I think the moral of this story is: if you're trying to make accurate measurements off photos of the Jupiter 2 model, ya just can't win! 

Gary


----------



## Gary K

Y3a said:


> The Hero was dropped off the boom sometime between year 2 and 3. The fusion core was replaced with the chaser version at that time. Could the repaired damage be what is giving the lower level that fat look?


Is this why my casting of the Hero sits a half-inch off level?

Gary


----------



## toyroy

Y3a said:


> The Hero was dropped off the boom sometime between year 2 and 3. The fusion core was replaced with the chaser version at that time. Could the repaired damage be what is giving the lower level that fat look?...


How would that account for the pointy, deep-dish lower hull seen in the series first three episodes?


----------



## m jamieson

Y3a said:


> The Hero was dropped off the boom sometime between year 2 and 3. The fusion core was replaced with the chaser version at that time. Could the repaired damage be what is giving the lower level that fat look? Perhaps the Pod implied a fatter lower deck?


That must have been a heartbreaking scene after it fell!


----------



## m jamieson

Don't you just wish the model builders for the series would have used photography to document their builds like model makers now seem to do!


----------



## toyroy

Y3a said:


> The Hero was dropped off the boom sometime between year 2 and 3...





m jamieson said:


> That must have been a heartbreaking scene after it fell!


:lol: Sorry; I'm kinda weird like that, in such situations...


----------



## Y3a

toyroy said:


> How would that account for the pointy, deep-dish lower hull seen in the series first three episodes?


It didn't. The J2 in the first few episodes looked flatter than later images.


FIRST YEAR-DERELICT

2ND YEAR EARLY

3RD YEAR - FAULTY GEAR, CHASER SYSTEM FOR FUSION CORE

1ST YEAR - DERELICT


----------



## Y3a

toyroy said:


> I thought I read someplace that the pod dropper didn't have a hull top, at the time of the series.


The pod dropper started off as a fiberglass pull like the hero, just built to drop the pod while firmly attached to a mount of some kind. The top was removed so they could get to the mechanics inside.


----------



## toyroy

Y3a said:


> The Hero was dropped off the boom sometime between year 2 and 3...Could the repaired damage be what is giving the lower level that fat look?...





toyroy said:


> How would that account for the pointy, deep-dish lower hull seen in the series first three episodes?





Y3a said:


> It didn't. The J2 in the first few episodes looked flatter than later images.
> 
> 
> FIRST YEAR-DERELICT
> 
> 2ND YEAR EARLY
> 
> 3RD YEAR - FAULTY GEAR, CHASER SYSTEM FOR FUSION CORE
> 
> 1ST YEAR - DERELICT


Personally, I don't see much difference, pre- and post-drop. The hero looks pretty good to me, in all these pics. I think the pointy, deep-dish lower hull seen in those early first season shots _must've_ been a different miniature.


----------



## Dave Metzner

Excuse me, 
I thought that this thread was about the details of the forth coming Moebius Jupiter 2 kit.
Not about all the different shooting miniatures, or the Gemini XII or about how the landing gear of the shooting miniature actually worked! Or how the 4ft "hero" was dropped and repaired! 
I'm sure all this is very interesting conversation but it seems to me that it has little or nothing to do with the Jupiter 2 kit Moebius is going to produce.

The design of the kit is finalized and the details of the kit are pretty well determined - there will certainly be some adjustments of a few details, however the photos that Gary has posted pretty well represent the general appearance of the actual kit.

Dave


----------



## toyroy

Dave Metzner said:


> Excuse me,
> I thought that this thread was about the details of the forth coming Moebius Jupiter 2 kit.
> Not about all the different shooting miniatures, or the Gemini XII or about how the landing gear of the shooting miniature actually worked! Or how the 4ft "hero" was dropped and repaired!
> I'm sure all this is very interesting conversation but it seems to me that it has little or nothing to do with the Jupiter 2 kit Moebius is going to produce...


Dave, This has ALL been about the Moebius kit because, unlike you,WE DON'T KNOW WHAT DIES HAVE ALREADY BEEN CUT!!! OOOOHHH!! O- OOOOOOOOOOHHHHH!! .



Dave Metzner said:


> The design of the kit is finalized and the details of the kit are pretty well determined - there will certainly be some adjustments of a few details, however the photos that Gary has posted pretty well represent the general appearance of the actual kit.


Ummm, *WHICH* details????????????


----------



## Richard Baker

We have to do something to bide the time until some NEW information is formally released by Moebius regarding the acutal kit.

In the absence of the details since what was made available in Wonderfest what do you prefer we do with this thread?


----------



## BlackbirdCD

I'm game to see how soon it gets to 1,000 posts with still no real consensus on the real differences between the various shooting miniatures. You'd think the SPFX guys knew this would drive fans nuts for years on end.


----------



## starseeker

Gary K said:


> You've got to take measurements of the Jupiter 2 models made from photos or screen caps with a large grain of salt, since parallax is conspiring against you to make the model look narrower & taller than it actually is. Years ago, I learned this the hard way when I was measuring a photo of the bridge of the Pilot version of the TOS Enterprise for my blueprints.
> 
> 
> 
> You can minimize the parallax distortions by using a telephoto lens, but then you run into problems with the depth of field. I think the moral of this story is: if you're trying to make accurate measurements off photos of the Jupiter 2 model, ya just can't win!
> 
> Gary


Too true. Part of what I was trying to come to terms with is that it could be some of those very same camera effects that give us what we see on screen. In a lot of the shots of the J2 (in all of the shots except landing in the yellow circle?), we see on screen a J2 with a deeper lower hull. Possibly that was the camera making the miniature accidentally match its incorrect blueprint profile almost perfectly. 
The yellow circle landing J2 matches your profile perfectly. 
But now we have 3 choices (G12, a deeper lower hull, and the kit lower hull), for matching what we see on screen. I for one would like to have all three. The lower hull is an easy scratch build so that will be easy to do. The G12 fusion core is a relatively easy scratch build, too. All of which I will begin while I wait for Christmas. 
I particularly like your parallax drawings but in regards to the main viewports. The blueprints of the G12 (full scale) and J2 do show the viewports as being a 1/8 section of the ship. But photos of the J2 miniature make them seem much larger, let alone the G12 which seem insanely large. Because the viewports have a certain width compared to height, and the parallax is least looking toward center, it does appear that the G12 viewports were larger than a 1/8 section. Just not nearly so extreme as photographed. 
Dave, only more photos of details will cause more discussion of details. A discussion of modding the kit was probably inevitable during the lull. Sorry. Will go cut plastic now.


----------



## m jamieson

Didn't the same thing happen with the Seaview thread with model versus original prop? I would think any discussion would be good PR and ultimately add to total model interest and sales.
But perhaps not..and all discussion should move somewhere else or cease until December.


----------



## spindrift

Dave-
To get this thread back on track maybe some more photos of the prototype can be posted to veer us in that direction again. i'd love to see more pics of the top saucer and interior walls. More of Gary's color detail drawings?
Thanks. Gary


----------



## spindrift

Furthermore Gary's comments on lens distortion are CORRECT- you cannot use screen images to accurately determine shapes- very important.
How come Trendmaster's toy J2 has a more accurate looking hull shape than the PL kit? Seems flatter and more accurately curved but that may just be me!
Gary:hat:


----------



## m jamieson

Personally the more I learn.. the more I plan on building multiple J2 kits
One modified to look like the Gemini XII, one for display, and probably one modeled after the effects miniature with working gear...so then how does the discussion of such details be detrimental for Moebius??


----------



## GEH737

Nature abhors a vacuum, and so do modelers teased with details about one of their favorite subjects. The test-shot photos have been great, and how could this much discussion on any aspect of the subject be bad??? Just based on the pictures released on this forum, I pre-ordered two from CultTVMan. I think the passion written these past 46 pages with almost 32,000 views is incredible and only adds to the understanding of our favorite spaceship


----------



## JPhil123

Dave Metzner said:


> Excuse me,
> I thought that this thread was about the details of the forth coming Moebius Jupiter 2 kit.
> Not about all the different shooting miniatures, or the Gemini XII or about how the landing gear of the shooting miniature actually worked! Or how the 4ft "hero" was dropped and repaired!
> I'm sure all this is very interesting conversation but it seems to me that it has little or nothing to do with the Jupiter 2 kit Moebius is going to produce.
> 
> The design of the kit is finalized and the details of the kit are pretty well determined - there will certainly be some adjustments of a few details, however the photos that Gary has posted pretty well represent the general appearance of the actual kit.
> 
> Dave


Hi,

In broad terms the conversation does show that there is an incredible level of interest and anticipation which has been sparked by the Moebius Models Jupiter 2 that is about to become model kit reality. 

I personally believe the Jupiter 2 ranks right up there with the other great spaceships of television and movies (perhaps equal to the original Enterprise itself). And now, we are about to have access to what may be THE best Jupiter 2 kit readily available in the world. The high interest in the subject matter (the Jupiter 2) is among the major reasons that the discussion has taken on added dimensions exceeding those aspects of the actual kit and the original intent of the thread.

I suspect that such interest may also be an indication that there is an untapped market for other Jupiter 2 kit variations. If anything, this thread is a wondeful location to have open for all when it comes to a exchange of ideas.

In all fairness your point is also valid...

Regards,
Jim


----------



## starseeker

spindrift said:


> Furthermore Gary's comments on lens distortion are CORRECT- you cannot use screen images to accurately determine shapes- very important.
> 
> Gary:hat:


Actually, you can, or come pretty darn close. Ron Gross did a stunning job using that very stone tool. 
I remembered another edge on view of the J2 I had. It was clipped on the right hand side so I split it down the middle and flipped the half to make a hole. This is (I think) from Visit to a Hostile Planet and showed a miniature with an unmistakable landing gear on the missing side. 
Even if parallax is at work (and the other shots I used above seemed to be taken a good distance from the miniature but who knows what lens was used?), all these thick bottom hull grabs are how the J2 sometimes/often appeared on screen. It's kind of ironic that after decades of wanting a J2 as it appeared on screen, we seem to be resisting a J2 as it appeared on screen at some times and only want a model of the J2 as it appeared on screen at other times. 
That the kit is a perfect reproduction of a miniature is wonderful thing. I love it. But I want all three. As somebody used to say: too much of a good thing is just enough.


----------



## toyroy

starseeker said:


> ...It's kind of ironic that after decades of wanting a J2 as it appeared on screen, we seem to be resisting a J2 as it appeared on screen at some times and only want a model of the J2 as it appeared on screen at other times...


Do you want a J2 model with a low-profile lower hull at some times, and one with a deeper hull at other times? Or, do you want a lower hull which is simultaneously low-profiled and deep-profiled at _all_ times?


----------



## Ductapeforever

Just give me a good quality large scale J2, leave the rest to ME!


----------



## starseeker

Wow, that quote even confused me. Let me try again. It's ironic that after decades of wanting a model of the J2 as it appeared on screen, we want a J2 with the shape it had on screen only in certain scenes. We seem to be resisting a model of the J2 that conforms to the shape it had on screen in other scenes. 
I want them all at the same time, very shallow G12 hull, this particular miniature accurate hull of Gary Kerr's, and the other on screen deeper lower hull. Three models. All at once. Side by side. And maybe convert a PL into that other shape you pointed out, a J2 lower hull with what looks like a G12 core. What size miniature do you think that was?


----------



## Dave Metzner

The Photos that have been published here are the tooling mock-up or prototype - Test shots do not exist yet as tooling is being made right now.. 
We don't expect test shots for some time yet.
I think that there has been more information shared here than ever before regarding a kit that is still in development. 
I think that for the most part we've been pretty forthcoming with answers regarding planned features of this new kit..
Yet it seems that it's never enough for some of you. I don't believe that we need to discuss EVERYTHING we know here..

Dave


----------



## Dar

starseeker said:


> Actually, you can, or come pretty darn close. Ron Gross did a stunning job using that very stone tool.
> I remembered another edge on view of the J2 I had. It was clipped on the right hand side so I split it down the middle and flipped the half to make a hole. This is (I think) from Visit to a Hostile Planet and showed a miniature with an unmistakable landing gear on the missing side.
> Even if parallax is at work (and the other shots I used above seemed to be taken a good distance from the miniature but who knows what lens was used?), all these thick bottom hull grabs are how the J2 sometimes/often appeared on screen. It's kind of ironic that after decades of wanting a J2 as it appeared on screen, we seem to be resisting a J2 as it appeared on screen at some times and only want a model of the J2 as it appeared on screen at other times.
> That the kit is a perfect reproduction of a miniature is wonderful thing. I love it. But I want all three. As somebody used to say: too much of a good thing is just enough.


Meh. The moebius fits the bill for what most people want I think.:thumbsup: Again its all about the representation. Since the show never had consistancy when it came to the exterior and the interior, NO version is really accurate. I can appreciate the fact that some people may want an exact model of a particualr J2 minature but it wont happen. It would just be way easier to modifiy one to the way you would want it.

Now I would like to see a concept model one day by someone. A J2 that looks like what we saw on screen but makes everything work.(except that pesky power core level of course) A completely redone concept model, all rescaled to work and maybe some liberties taken on stuff that was mentioned but not seen. I think that would be a fun model to see one day.


----------



## Dar

Dave Metzner said:


> The Photos that have been published here are the tooling mock-up or prototype - Test shots do not exist yet as tooling is beiong made right now.. We don't expect test shots before early August.
> I think that there has been more information shared here than ever before regarding a kit that is still in development. I think that for the most part we've been pretty forthcoming with answers regarding planned features of the new kit..
> Some of the attitudes expressed here make it hard to consider offering this kind of information on future projects



I think most are very happy with what is coming. I know I am. There are going to be a few opinionated attitudes in regards to anything that is done with models or anything else in this world. Its hard to make everyone happy. I dont see anything wrong though with discussing the J2 ship and breaking it down. I think most of the discussions here have been very fun and informative and mostly apply to the J2 as a ship and not the moebius model. But it does give people ideas when they want to make their Moebius J2 unique from others. I dont see anything wrong with that.

Of course you guys have the right to keep anything underwraps before its released if you dont want to see discussions on the subject model that is the basis for your model. I suppose people could take discussing the J2 as a ship to the modeling forum instead.


----------



## Y3a

I don't care if this thread degenerates into a Jupiter 2 fanboy thread. All this stuff has been interesting. 

BTW - L.B.Abbott and the Lydeckers have both commented that a 'slight' fish-eye lens of about 3-5 percent makes the SPFX models look like real sized ones taken with a portrait lens. Somewhere in Abbotts book he mentions several tricks to make the depth and light dynamics work for the scene. The fisheye makes the closest edge of the Jupiter 2 look closer to the viewer as it rotated before exiting the Derelict for instance.


----------



## Ductapeforever

Here Dave...one semi-automatic, yes it's loaded. Now point it at your foot...aim real careful FIRE! Talk about biting the hands that feed you.


----------



## Dar

Ductapeforever said:


> Here Dave...one semi-automatic, yes it's loaded. Now point it at your foot...aim real careful FIRE! Talk about biting the hands that feed you.




^^^I really dont see the need for that. 

People are just discussing the subject matter that the Moebius J2 is based on. There are some people that may want two, three or twenty different versions of the same model and mention it here but I dont see why so many feel threatened by those types of comment. Most of those comments are fueled by the excitement of the Moebius J2. This model is getting a lot of attention and any discussion on it can only make it that much more desired IMO. This forum can get a bit anal at times.:lol: 

To try to derail any further heartaches or misunderstandings here:lol:, I started a general J2 thread in the Scifimodeling forum. If anyone is interested feel free to discuss anything you want on the J2 and its various incarnations.


http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=256883


----------



## Richard Baker

I think the course of this thread is quite normal for a subject like this. It started with a big reveal at Wonderfest of the mock-up. Everyone was amazed by th elevel of detail and thought that was going into this kit. After a couple of pages of fond gushing praise the new info was well know to all. No further details were forthcoming but what was known fied up the imaginations of the members. I grew up with that show and I thought I knew a lot about it, but some people here have made it their life's work to know every detail and feature of this ship in all its incarantions. Differences in features such as landing gear were explored and what would be included in the new kit were being speculated on- all in absence of any hard information the imaginations run wild.
You started a big snowball going down hill and expect people to quietly sit on their hands for the next reveal?


> Some of the attitudes expressed here make it hard to consider offering this kind of information on future projects


I do not understand where that attitude was expressed- at most people are discussing taking the kit they plan to buy from you and modifying it to match a personal vision, be it different landing gear of a G-12 version. You didn't like it when this thread started talking about the J-2 filming models in general instead of the new kit (of which no new details were to talk about). 
The goal I though in Moebius sponsoring a forum was to open up lines of communication between th ecompany and the people who buy the products. This thread I feel has done exactly that. Not every post is fawning approval- no diverse group of humans all react the same way dispite good intentions, but I think this thread has been civil, informative and entertaining. I do not see any 'attitudes' which should make it hard to consider releasing information in the future. You have a great group of fns wishing the very best for Moebius and a bunch of preorders for a kit not yet in production. I do not think very many companies could hope for such response like that.


----------



## m jamieson

32,520 views!!! What does that translate to in free advertising and sales dollars? yeah...better derail this gravy train quick!!


----------



## drewid142

Holy Cow am I ever saddened to read these entries. Please folks... Dave and the gang are making our dreams come true... THEY need to enjoy the process too, while at the same time they must make things commercially viable... viable... google it.

PLEASE folks... CHILL! 

...and the hand that is feeding us is the hand of Moebius, NOT the other way around.

This is a TOUGH business to make financial success in! Don't think just because you buy three of everything that you are owed anything. The cost of doing the tooling and the investment in building a business around this is gigantic and there are many many better ways to make a buck!

Dave and gang... thank you! Don't be discouraged!

others... please... stop and chill and think before adding a response to this. Take the speculative J2 discussions over to one of the dozens of existing threads on this subject and let this little flare up settle down.


----------



## fxshop

Dave Metzner said:


> The Photos that have been published here are the tooling mock-up or prototype - Test shots do not exist yet as tooling is being made right now..
> We don't expect test shots for some time yet.
> I think that there has been more information shared here than ever before regarding a kit that is still in development.
> I think that for the most part we've been pretty forthcoming with answers regarding planned features of this new kit..
> Yet it seems that it's never enough for some of you. I don't believe that we need to discuss EVERYTHING we know here..
> 
> Dave


 I,m with Dave! Be greatfull the models are even getting devloped! 
:thumbsup:Some of us respect your efforts!!! Your doing a fine job!

Thanks
Randy Neubert
VoodooFX


----------



## Ductapeforever

People,
My comments to Dave were solely made in jest. I understand trying to bring this thread closer to topic. But I also disagree that any additional discussion on a subject of which Moebius holds a license to produce is off topic either. If so move it to the Sci-Fi forum. No disrespect Dave, any who misunderstood please accept my apologies. I'm going to shut up now and build. Some of you guys are ever so sensitive. When walking on egg shells...don't Hop!


----------



## Dave Metzner

Just want to see the thread closer to topic - it's wandered pretty far off topic lately...
I think that Gary has explained how most of the kit design decisions were arrived at. 
I believe that we have answered every pertinent question about the model we plan on producing. 
Since we are still quite some time away from having our first test shots it's not possible to know exactly which details may be adjusted before the tooling is actually finalized. 
I can say that I hope that the test shot is true to the mock-up and that there are very few items that need to be changed...The fewer changes we need to make the better it is for maintaining a schedule!
Until we have test shots it's impossible to answer every question about every detail..after we get the test shot we still probably won't be able to answer every question..


Dave


----------



## toyroy

starseeker said:


> Wow, that quote even confused me. Let me try again. It's ironic that after decades of wanting a model of the J2 as it appeared on screen, we want a J2 with the shape it had on screen only in certain scenes. We seem to be resisting a model of the J2 that conforms to the shape it had on screen in other scenes.
> I want them all at the same time, very shallow G12 hull, this particular miniature accurate hull of Gary Kerr's, and the other on screen deeper lower hull. Three models. All at once. Side by side...


That actually makes sense. Something of a design history display of the Jupiter 2. :thumbsup:




starseeker said:


> ...And maybe convert a PL into that other shape you pointed out, a J2 lower hull with what looks like a G12 core. What size miniature do you think that was?


Are you talking about the little miniature flying around the derelict? It must've been small. I can't imagine it even being 12"- as that would mean the derelict was _HUGE_. But that model had a full G12 lower hull, albeit with a lower viewport. I don't know of _any_ miniatures having a J2 lower hull, with a G12 core.


----------



## Gemini1999

toyroy said:


> That actually makes sense. Something of a design history display of the Jupiter 2. :thumbsup:
> 
> Are you talking about the little miniature flying around the derelict? It must've been small. I can't imagine it even being 12"- as that would mean the derelict was _HUGE_. But that model had a full G12 lower hull, albeit with a lower viewport. I don't know of _any_ miniatures having a J2 lower hull, with a G12 core.


The miniature of the J2 that's flying around the derelict ship is a 4" model if I remember correctly. It's interesting watching those scenes as the ship is pretty well lit taking into consideration the size of the model. If you get a chance, take a look at the scene on DVD or Hulu. Give the dome light and the fusion core lights a close look while they're in action. The dome light appears to be a single rotating light that resembles a small version of an old style rotating light on a police car. The fusion core lights appear to be steadily lit with a rotating "shutter" to give the impression of the chasing light effect seen on the larger models. I found a few pics to illustrate:




























I actually like the scene, which was used twice. The original scene was used in the 1st season episode "The Derelict" and then again in the 3rd season episode "Kidnapped In Space" as the Xenian Space Probe. The 3rd season episode updated the B&W footage using a blue filter for the space scenes to give the impression of color footage.

When you consider that the "derelict" scenes were made using just models and a starfield backdrop, it's pretty impressive for the time and that there weren't any mattes or bluescreen photography used.

Bryan


----------



## toyroy

Gemini1999 said:


> The miniature of the J2 that's flying around the derelict ship is a 4" model if I remember correctly...The dome light appears to be a single rotating light that resembles a small version of an old style rotating light on a police car. The fusion core lights appear to be steadily lit with a rotating "shutter" to give the impression of the chasing light effect seen on the larger models...


Absolutely, one of my favorite scenes! Is it possible that _all_ the small J2 lights were actually reflectors?

It would be a fun sequence to re-create, using a Moebius model for the interior landing and lift-off shots, and some sparking, burning wads of newspaper for the "aliens"!


----------



## Y3a

The little J2 was about 10 inches in diameter. The light in the bubble was a simple flashlight blinker bulb. the core was probably 2-4 lights with a shutter arrangement. The Derelict was used as exotic alien machinery in several LIS episodes.


----------



## RSN

Gemini1999 said:


> The miniature of the J2 that's flying around the derelict ship is a 4" model if I remember correctly. It's interesting watching those scenes as the ship is pretty well lit taking into consideration the size of the model. If you get a chance, take a look at the scene on DVD or Hulu. Give the dome light and the fusion core lights a close look while they're in action. The dome light appears to be a single rotating light that resembles a small version of an old style rotating light on a police car. The fusion core lights appear to be steadily lit with a rotating "shutter" to give the impression of the chasing light effect seen on the larger models. I found a few pics to illustrate:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I actually like the scene, which was used twice. The original scene was used in the 1st season episode "The Derelict" and then again in the 3rd season episode "Kidnapped In Space" as the Xenian Space Probe. The 3rd season episode updated the B&W footage using a blue filter for the space scenes to give the impression of color footage.
> 
> When you consider that the "derelict" scenes were made using just models and a starfield backdrop, it's pretty impressive for the time and that there weren't any mattes or bluescreen photography used.
> 
> Bryan


I think your estimate of the Jupiter II's size is a bit low when you ses the scale of the Derelict model. It was modified and used as set dressing in a few episodes. From the size of just the front end used in "Wreck of the Robot", I would say the small ball at the front is about 2' across. That would put the Jupiter model orbiting it at closer to the known 12" model. Keeping on topic, imagine how big you would need to scratch build one to fit the scale of the Moebius kit!


----------



## Gary K

RSN said:


> I think your estimate of the Jupiter II's size is a bit low when you ses the scale of the Derelict model. It was modified and used as set dressing in a few episodes. From the size of just the front end used in "Wreck of the Robot", I would say the small ball at the front is about 2' across.


In keeping with Irwin Allen's time-honored tradition of using the same props on both LIS and Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea, the Derelict model appeared as an alien spacecraft in "The Terrible Toys".

Gary


----------



## Gemini1999

I know that I'm probably just estimating the size of the small model of the J2 and maybe 10 inches would be more correct. I do remember a photo that was published in Starlog magazine quite a number of years ago that had Robert Kinoshita holding a very small model of the J2 in his hand, but it seemed smaller than 10 inches. It's been a very long time and I no longer have the magazine. I did a search online, but wasn't able to find the same pic.

I just took a look over at Hulu.com of both episodes that used the footage. I must say that it looks much better in the original episode. The blue filter used in the "Kidnapped in Space" footage just ruins the detail of the shot. I also liked the music used in "The Derelict" better to provide a mood of awe and mystery to the scene.

Bryan


----------



## RSN

Gemini1999 said:


> I know that I'm probably just estimating the size of the small model of the J2 and maybe 10 inches would be more correct. I do remember a photo that was published in Starlog magazine quite a number of years ago that had Robert Kinoshita holding a very small model of the J2 in his hand, but it seemed smaller than 10 inches. It's been a very long time and I no longer have the magazine. I did a search online, but wasn't able to find the same pic.
> 
> I just took a look over at Hulu.com of both episodes that used the footage. I must say that it looks much better in the original episode. The blue filter used in the "Kidnapped in Space" footage just ruins the detail of the shot. I also liked the music used in "The Derelict" better to provide a mood of awe and mystery to the scene.
> 
> Bryan


I know the photo you are remembering from Starlog. That was Robert holding a small kit with a partial flight deck that was for sale at the time, not a filming model. I remember wanting one, but being a teenager with no job, it was a bit pricey in 1980 (probably $20.00!).


----------



## toyroy

Gary K said:


> In keeping with Irwin Allen's time-honored tradition of using the same props on both LIS and Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea, the Derelict model appeared as an alien spacecraft in "The Terrible Toys".


Anyone planning on converting their Moebius J2's into Pacifica highrises? :drunk:


----------



## toyroy

How _did_ they hold and move the miniature entering the derelict?


----------



## QMx Andy

Sorry for chiming in so late on this thread, but I just gotta say – *awesome* job, Moebius! I've been waiting for _this_ J2 kit for what seems like most of my adult life. Bravo!


----------



## Dar

fxshop said:


> I,m with Dave! Be greatfull the models are even getting devloped!
> :thumbsup:Some of us respect your efforts!!! Your doing a fine job!
> 
> Thanks
> Randy Neubert
> VoodooFX



Oh I think 100% of people here respect their efforts and success. I think everyone is greatful as well. I see no disrespect in discussing the Jupiter 2 as it pertains to the Moebius model. I really dont see how the thread could really avoid discussing the prop J2 and all its workings when discussing the Moebius.:lol: The Moebius afterall is based on several of those props as well as interior.:thumbsup:


----------



## Steve244

toyroy said:


> Anyone planning on converting their Moebius J2's into Pacifica highrises? :drunk:


with hamsters!


----------



## toyroy

Steve244 said:


> with hamsters!


:lol: The Moebius might even be big enough for a cat bed.


----------



## m jamieson

I want to cut all kinds of holes in it and make the "prior to restoration J2 autopsy model"


----------



## m jamieson

So all in all home many filmed studio miniatures still exist or are believed to exist?
Is there even a definitive number, counting the Gemini 12's as well?


----------



## m jamieson

oops... insert "how many" instead of "home many"


----------



## toyroy

Gemini1999 said:


> The miniature of the J2 that's flying around the derelict ship is a 4" model if I remember correctly...


Reminds me that I have a Johnny Lightning J2 yet to finish. How am I gonna light _that_?


----------



## toyroy

m jamieson said:


> So all in all (how many) filmed studio miniatures still exist or are believed to exist?
> Is there even a definitive number, counting the Gemini 12's as well?


The four-foot G12 hero was sold at auction some years ago; pics from there are available. The original J2 hero is fully restored, and you can buy casts from it. The pod dropper is at the Sci Fi museum in Seattle.


----------



## otto

Almost 50 pages so far on this thread! The kit aint even out yet! Methinks this well be a pretty good seller.


----------



## toyroy

toyroy said:


> ...The pod dropper is at the Sci Fi museum in Seattle.


This reminds me: is there a store at the museum? And can you buy sci fi model kits there?


----------



## BlackbirdCD

toyroy said:


> This reminds me: is there a store at the museum? And can you buy sci fi model kits there?


There is a store, but not really any model kits around the last time I was there. Head north to Galaxy Hobby in Lynnwood! (http://www.galaxyhobby.com).


----------



## BlackbirdCD

toyroy said:


> Reminds me that I have a Johnny Lightning J2 yet to finish. How am I gonna light _that_?


Get one of those belly button flashers people use at RAVES and drop it in there.


----------



## LGFugate

Hey Dave,

Maybe a good way to get this thread back on topic would be to tell us a bit about the process going on to get molds made from Gary's model. 'Way back in the day ('70's, I think) there was a fascinating article on how a plastic model is made from start to finish in Model Rocketry magazine. G. Harry Stine (May God Rest His Soul) wrote about how injection-molded model rocket parts are made. Can you tell us what you're going thru to make the Jupiter 2 kit?

Larry


----------



## toyroy

BlackbirdCD said:


> Get one of those belly button flashers people use at RAVES and drop it in there.


I'm too superannuated for rave parties, but I did Google your suggestion. It appears belly button flashers, per se, are a little passe. But there are still plenty of online dealers in rave supplies, and they continue to have cutting-edge lighting silliness- much of which can be adapted for modelling.


----------



## toyroy

BlackbirdCD said:


> There is a store, but not really any model kits around the last time I was there. Head north to Galaxy Hobby in Lynnwood! (http://www.galaxyhobby.com).


And so I did- online, anyway. Galaxy Hobby only lists the one Moebius kit: the Jupiter 2. Not surprisingly, it's currently out of stock.

The Sci-Fi museum shop is really missing out in serving it's patrons by not carrying the Moebius VttBotS and LiS Space Pod kits. They're quality kits that _any_ retailer should be proud to offer. :thumbsup: On the other hand, I think it is perfectly understandable that they to refuse to offer the PL/Aurora Robot kits. There's a real vacuum in the market, when it comes to a satisfactory LiS Robot kit, so best not to offer anything.


----------



## ChrisPappas

toyroy said:


> How _did_ they hold and move the miniature entering the derelict?


The 12-1/2" model had port and starboard holes from front to rear at the transistion of the upper and lower hull that allowed a pair of guy wires to act as a track that the model could be pulled on.

These holes can be seen in the two photos I've attached.

Chris


----------



## B-9

I'm the new guy here. This is all informative and very cool. Excitement around a model kit from a 40 plus year old TV show really says something! Can't wait until December!


----------



## Y3a

Didn't they bump on of the doors with those wires when entering the Derelict?


----------



## Richard Baker

B-9 said:


> I'm the new guy here. This is all informative and very cool. Excitement around a model kit from a 40 plus year old TV show really says something! Can't wait until December!


*Welcome to the Forums!*


----------



## Y3a

m jamieson said:


> So all in all home many filmed studio miniatures still exist or are believed to exist?
> Is there even a definitive number, counting the Gemini 12's as well?


1 Gemini 12 Hero - No existing Fusion core.
2 Small Gemini 12/Jupiter 2 10.5" model (no gear)
3 Hero - 4 foot diameter, landing gear etc
4 Pod Dropping 4 footer
5 10 foot Jupiter 2 - unused(?)

4 foot model used for crash landing (Gemini 12??) Large fusion core, shallow bottom.


----------



## DEEMAN

*Jupiter 2*

GREAT JOB IDID ONE FROM POLAR LIGHTS 3 YEARS AGO :thumbsup:


----------



## m jamieson

Does anyone know how the shutter effect in the 10.5 inch fusion core was achieved?


----------



## B-9

Thanks Richard!


----------



## BlackbirdCD

toyroy said:


> And so I did- online, anyway. Galaxy Hobby only lists the one Moebius kit: the Jupiter 2. Not surprisingly, it's currently out of stock.
> 
> The Sci-Fi museum shop is really missing out in serving it's patrons by not carrying the Moebius VttBotS and LiS Space Pod kits. They're quality kits that _any_ retailer should be proud to offer. :thumbsup: On the other hand, I think it is perfectly understandable that they to refuse to offer the PL/Aurora Robot kits. There's a real vacuum in the market, when it comes to a satisfactory LiS Robot kit, so best not to offer anything.


Galaxy Hobby doesn't show their store stock on their online store - it's basically a hosted version of a distribution hobbyshop online. If you're in the area, go check them out in person. One of the best SF model selections to be found in an LHS.

And I agree with you on the Sci-Fi Museum. As much as I love that place, and get back as often as I can, they really are out of touch when it comes to their gift shop and how they deal with the SF Community.


----------



## toyroy

Y3a said:


> Didn't they bump on of the doors with those wires when entering the Derelict?


That certainly was not the smoothest part of the effect.


----------



## toyroy

toyroy said:


> ...The Sci-Fi museum shop is really missing out in serving it's patrons by not carrying the Moebius VttBotS and LiS Space Pod kits. They're quality kits that _any_ retailer should be proud to offer...





BlackbirdCD said:


> ...I agree with you on the Sci-Fi Museum. As much as I love that place, and get back as often as I can, they really are out of touch when it comes to their gift shop and how they deal with the SF Community.


They may be unaware of Moebius. Perhaps, something could be done about that?... :wave:


----------



## toyroy

m jamieson said:


> Does anyone know how the shutter effect in the 10.5 inch fusion core was achieved?


I don't, but there's an interesting thread in the Model Lighting forum about one modeller's effort to duplicate the hero core lighting. It may give some insight.


----------



## ChrisPappas

Y3a said:


> 1 Gemini 12 Hero - No existing Fusion core.
> 2 Small Gemini 12/Jupiter 2 10.5" model (no gear)
> 3 Hero - 4 foot diameter, landing gear etc
> 4 Pod Dropping 4 footer
> 5 10 foot Jupiter 2 - unused(?)
> 
> 4 foot model used for crash landing (Gemini 12??) Large fusion core, shallow bottom.


I think a separate G12 for the crashing sequence is conjecture. There would have been no need for a separate model since it didn't actually have to hit the ground.

Also, the 10.5" noted is actually 12.5".

Chris


----------



## toyroy

ChrisPappas said:


> ...the 10.5"(J2 miniature) noted is actually 12.5".


Interesting- someone here reported reading an account of a model described as 13".


----------



## toyroy

This was cropped from a planetary backround still and enlarged 3x. It shows something I've sorta noticed before, but really just become fully conscious of- the lower edge of the viewport on the small "line flyer"(the 10-13 incher) is _curved_:

[IMG-LEFT]http://photos.hobbytalk.com/data/509/J2_line_flyer.jpg[/IMG-LEFT]


----------



## Ron Gross

Starlog reporter Mike Clark stated that it was a 13" model in his LIS 20th anniversary video retrospective. I have known Mike for many years, and he has always been someone very much "in the know." However, I don't know precisely what his sources were for that particular project. I do know that Mike was a personal acquaintance of Irwin Allen and many other people associated with the show.


----------



## Y3a

The little Saucer - But was the SPFX model the same as the little model that Will is holding?





Gemini 12 Crash ?


----------



## toyroy

Y3a said:


> The little Saucer - But was the SPFX model the same as the little model that Will is holding?



You mean the "pizza cutter"


----------



## Tim Nolan

I posted this over in the lighting section, but thought I'd drop it here too. I'm working on the wiring in my PL J2, and here's where I am with it so far. I think it's going to be a field day for lighting buffs when the new Moebius kit arrives! So much room to work with! Woohoo! :woohoo:

I have installed the Strange Stuff Studios (Simon Mercs) fusion core set. I just added a board/LED set from VoodooFx for a blue strobe affect in the cryo-tubes, and will add backlighting to my panels next with another kit from VoodoFx. There's a short quicky video of it working too...
























This kit has a speed control, so you can have them pulsating wildly or lit solid if you wish! I like' em' pulsating like they are activating! Wish we had some figures to put in the tubes!
[ame=http://s92.photobucket.com/albums/l35/Finktim/Jupiter%202/?action=view&current=027-1.flv]







[/ame]


----------



## Steve244

Tim, if your freezing tubes aren't secured, consider a bit of aluminum (aluminium?) foil inside the tops to black-out the glare from the freezing ray. This also has the happy effect of reflecting it back on the occupants so they freeze evenly; wouldn't want the tops of their heads going bad.


----------



## EJD1984

Y3a said:


> 1 Gemini 12 Hero - No existing Fusion core.
> 2 Small Gemini 12/Jupiter 2 10.5" model (no gear)
> 3 Hero - 4 foot diameter, landing gear etc
> 4 Pod Dropping 4 footer
> 5 10 foot Jupiter 2 - unused(?)
> 
> 4 foot model used for crash landing (Gemini 12??) Large fusion core, shallow bottom.


There was a 10ft model?!

Was is planned & never constructed?

If it was made, and pictures of it?


----------



## Seaview

The 10 footer was built with the intention of being used in a never filmed scene of the Cyclops attacking the Gemini XII crashsite, either in the pilot film or sometime during planned the series.


----------



## Richard Baker

Seaview said:


> The 10 footer was built with the intention of being used in a never filmed scene of the Cyclops attacking the Gemini XII crashsite, either in the pilot film or sometime during planned the series.


THAT would have been a cool scene-
did they get as far as test filming?


----------



## g_xii

toyroy said:


> This was cropped from a planetary backround still and enlarged 3x. It shows something I've sorta noticed before, but really just become fully conscious of- the lower edge of the viewport on the small "line flyer"(the 10-13 incher) is _curved_:
> 
> http://photos.hobbytalk.com/data/509/J2_line_flyer.jpg


ToyRoy --

Here's 4 more pics from that same photo shoot. I'm not sure if it's a curved edge, or a steeper upper hull profile. The profile itself seems very steep in some of these. 

You can also see the wires!

--Henry


----------



## toyroy

g_xii said:


> Here's 4 more pics from that same photo shoot. I'm not sure if it's a curved edge, or a steeper upper hull profile...


Hey Henry,
Check out the head-on approach shot of the J2 entering the derelict. Let me know what you think. 

Roy


----------



## ChrisPappas

Y3a said:


> The little Saucer - But was the SPFX model the same as the little model that Will is holding?


One and the same!

Chris


----------



## abacero

We all share the opinion that this J-2 is a masterpiece. And after the pictures is a dream come true. However, I wish to recognize the efforts of Polar Lights to make the first J-2 and the good intention to give what all modelers and LiS fans were looking for in the J-2 model: EVERYTHING we watched in the show in an impossible design. You can see in the CultTVMan website some great jobs to improve the model, even to arthisitic levels (look the "Lost and Found" model. That is my inspiration to build my PL J-2).

Thank you Polar Lights.:thumbsup:

And Moebius: take a bow for perfecting the concept to excelency levels. I will make place in my long assembly line for your J-2!:thumbsup::thumbsup:

Best regards,

Alberto

_"There are always possibilities".- Spock_


----------



## Krel

In an old Starlog there is a photo of Robert Kinoshita holding a small J2 in his hand, about four inches wide at the most. The caption said that it was used in "The Derelict" in the scenes of the J2 entering, and exiting the alien ship. Does anyone else remember this photo?

David.


----------



## B-9

Oh yeah, I remember that from a long time ago. Does anyone know what the deal was with that? I can't imagine a 4 inch J2 being used for anything in the series.


----------



## Ron Gross

If I'm not mistaken, the J2 in that photo was David Merriman's mini J2 offering that was featured in the then classified ads in Starlog. He actually did 4" renditions of other classic saucers, but the J2 was considered to have been the flagship of the line. It was through this ad that I met David in 1982, and only a few months later, I found myself working with him on a lighting circuit for his then planned 10" J2 release. Although he did build the 10" ship and wrote a related article for Scale Modeler, it was never officially released to the public. 

The lighting circuit mentioned above is the same one featured on Cult, and also the one I wound up incorporating in my own prototype several years later.
Ron G.


----------



## woof359

isnt there a book by the Abbotts or Lydeckers????? not sure of the names any more, but are they still alive? any one ever met and talked with these guys? I grabed a round back sheet out of the cupboard thats about 18 inches in diameter, this kits gonna be just the right size for detailing.


----------



## B-9

Thanks Ron. That was a long time ago and I had forgotten about it.
I think Howard Lydecker's last film was Speilberg's "1941" where he flew John Belushi's plane the same way the J2 flew - on horizontal wires. I believe he is now deceased.
Any new news on the Moebius J2???


----------



## jbond

There is a book by L.B. Abbott released by American Cinematographer: "Special Effects: Wire, Tape and Rubber Band Style." It's great to have but sadly doesn't contain much on the Irwin Allen shows, mainly a short paragraph or two at the end of the section on the Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea movie chapter.


----------



## MAX WEDGE

Ron Gross said:


> If I'm not mistaken, the J2 in that photo was David Merriman's mini J2 offering that was featured in the then classified ads in Starlog. He actually did 4" renditions of other classic saucers, but the J2 was considered to have been the flagship of the line. It was through this ad that I met David in 1982, and only a few months later, I found myself working with him on a lighting circuit for his then planned 10" J2 release. Although he did build the 10" ship and wrote a related article for Scale Modeler, it was never officially released to the public. .
> Ron G.


 Like this one? These are neat little models


----------



## Seaview

Cute! "Pocket sized"! I'd have loved to have had one of those when I was a kid!!!


----------



## toyroy

The model in the picture looks closer to Johnny Lightning size, than a 4" model.

Speaking of which, that's about the size of the shirt cardboard model I made as a kid. The operating landing gear struts were straight pins.


----------



## MAX WEDGE

toyroy said:


> The model in the picture looks closer to Johnny Lightning size, than a 4" model.


 Nope, its the 4" Dave Merriman, here is a side by side comparison of the JL to the D&E J-2.


----------



## Opus Penguin

That would be cool on display of my computer desk. These aren't being produced?


----------



## Ron Gross

The 4" model was a 1982/1983 offering from David Merriman. So I guess you might say that it is long out of production.


----------



## toyroy

Was the Merriman model a kit?


----------



## Ron Gross

No, preassembled. There were three other offerings in the line, all 4" saucer types. If I ever come across the flyer, which I still have somewhere, I'll scan and post.


----------



## MAX WEDGE

Ron Gross said:


> No, preassembled. There were three other offerings in the line, all 4" saucer types. If I ever come across the flyer, which I still have somewhere, I'll scan and post.



I like to see that! I have been trying to get "Sonnet" to send me a copy he has from 1982?


----------



## Steve H

As excited as I am about the upcoming kit (and I am. I am. I really wish I was in a position to afford such things but just knowing it exists makes me giddy), I've been even more excited by the ongoing discussion about the Jupiter 2 miniatures. This is good stuff.

So, going out on a limb, I make a public plea. Ron, Paul, all you others whose names I've forgotten for the moment, PLEASE consider getting together and putting together a book on this, a 'history of a miniature' if you like. Scan the studio blueprints, clean them in Photoshop, all the work of figuring diameters and angles and such, the mechanics, all of it. And maybe essays, a roundtable of discussion, putting out all the views 'for' and 'against' the why and the how of it.

There's tons of this sort of thing for Star Trek because the production staff preserved much data, and fans came into the production and built on it (Sternback, Probert et al) but there seems to be nothing, nothing like that in the IA world, just fan speculation (for good or bad).

Hey, the airplane guys can whip out monographs on Nazi aircraft that never existed, why can't the same be done for one of the most recognized spaceships ever (not) built? 

Why do I sound so passionate about this? Because I've been in various fandoms (including the IPMS) since the mid-'70s, and if there's one thing I know that happens...fans fight. They feud over NOTHING. And there's the horror of a fire, or unexpected death, or spouse getting into a fit and throwing out things and all that data, all that knowledge gets lost. LOST. And that would be a shame. No, strike that, it would be a crime. Knowledge lost is always a crime against the future.

so, come on guys, get together, put it down on paper, cull this thread, just...

well, I've said my piece and firmly put both my feet in my mouth. I hope something happens. 

(you know, if, IF it could be done under the Moebius license, it would be a killer item for sale on their fanclub site...)


----------



## david merriman

Steve H said:


> As excited as I am about the upcoming kit (and I am. I am. I really wish I was in a position to afford such things but just knowing it exists makes me giddy), I've been even more excited by the ongoing discussion about the Jupiter 2 miniatures. This is good stuff.
> 
> So, going out on a limb, I make a public plea. Ron, Paul, all you others whose names I've forgotten for the moment, PLEASE consider getting together and putting together a book on this, a 'history of a miniature' if you like. Scan the studio blueprints, clean them in Photoshop, all the work of figuring diameters and angles and such, the mechanics, all of it. And maybe essays, a roundtable of discussion, putting out all the views 'for' and 'against' the why and the how of it.
> 
> There's tons of this sort of thing for Star Trek because the production staff preserved much data, and fans came into the production and built on it (Sternback, Probert et al) but there seems to be nothing, nothing like that in the IA world, just fan speculation (for good or bad).
> 
> Hey, the airplane guys can whip out monographs on Nazi aircraft that never existed, why can't the same be done for one of the most recognized spaceships ever (not) built?
> 
> Why do I sound so passionate about this? Because I've been in various fandoms (including the IPMS) since the mid-'70s, and if there's one thing I know that happens...fans fight. They feud over NOTHING. And there's the horror of a fire, or unexpected death, or spouse getting into a fit and throwing out things and all that data, all that knowledge gets lost. LOST. And that would be a shame. No, strike that, it would be a crime. Knowledge lost is always a crime against the future.
> 
> so, come on guys, get together, put it down on paper, cull this thread, just...
> 
> well, I've said my piece and firmly put both my feet in my mouth. I hope something happens.
> 
> (you know, if, IF it could be done under the Moebius license, it would be a killer item for sale on their fanclub site...)


I'm in.

Gary? ... Ron? ....

David,


----------



## Steve H

Thank you David and I apologize for letting your name slip. Also like to say thank you for all your Seaview work too, that also needs a monograph.


----------



## MAX WEDGE

david merriman said:


> I'm in.
> Gary? ... Ron? ....
> David,


 Count me in:thumbsup:


----------



## JPhil123

david merriman said:


> I'm in.
> 
> Gary? ... Ron? ....
> 
> David,


Hello.

I would love to see a book of that nature. Perhaps it could include some information about other scale model props used on the show, and any changes they were subjected to.

I'd also like to say something about that mini-Jupiter 2. I purchased one back in the 1980s and, for the size, it had wonderful details. I never knew that a 10 inch size was considered or constructed, but given the quality of the smaller one and the talent behind it, I'm sure it would have been astounding. I would love to have seen pictures of the 10 inch Jupiter 2.

Regards,
Jim Crompton


----------



## John P

Ron Gross said:


> No, preassembled. There were three other offerings in the line, all 4" saucer types. If I ever come across the flyer, which I still have somewhere, I'll scan and post.


Is that where those came from? Friend of mine bequethed me all 3 when he had kids.


----------



## Steve H

well, of course it's up to those who actually do the work, but my thinking was there's all this data on the Jupiter 2, and there's this nice new kit, and promotion and tie-in and such.

Not that the other props and such couldn't or shouldn't be discussed, but I don't think there's anywhere near as much old data, vintage material that is slowly decaying and such available....

Lord knows I'd love a meaty talk about the first season laser pistols, because I *HAD* that Remco toy gun they used as a base....blah blah blah 

also, frankly, I'm inspired by my love of Japanese animation, and how they do things over there. Seems every significant kit that comes out one of the magazines does a special 'How to make' issue that goes on sale when the kit does, and there's always a section about how the kit came to be...


----------



## MAX WEDGE

JPhil123 said:


> Hello.
> 
> I'd also like to say something about that mini-Jupiter 2. I purchased one back in the 1980s and, for the size, it had wonderful details. I never knew that a 10 inch size was considered or constructed, but given the quality of the smaller one and the talent behind it, I'm sure it would have been astounding. I would love to have seen pictures of the 10 inch Jupiter 2.
> Regards,
> Jim Crompton



10" ? Did I miss something? Hey Phil, do you still have your Mini J-2?


----------



## toyroy

I'd certainly be interested in a serious book about the G12 and J2. Hopefully, there's not too much information that has been irretrievably lost.

For one thing, I'd like to know how they did the sound heard on the Jupiter 2's take-offs and landings. And what was the intended purpose of the ten footer?


----------



## GEH737

I think a book on the Irwin Allen vehicles would be a great tie-in to the Moebius kits. There's so much information scattered about, and it's really impressive to see what guys have put together - Seaview, FS-1, J2, Pod, Chariot - that'd be a great reference book


----------



## JPhil123

MAX WEDGE said:


> 10" ? Did I miss something? Hey Phil, do you still have your Mini J-2?


HI...

I do still have the 4 inch diameter mini-Jupiter 2 safe and sound. I recall I purchased it through a Star Log ad, but can't remember much more. It has striking surface details, and a very light gray color overall. It was offered in the early 1980s. 

Regards,
Jim


----------



## g_xii

JPhil123 said:


> HI...
> 
> I do still have the 4 inch diameter mini-Jupiter 2 safe and sound. I recall I purchased it through a Star Log ad, but can't remember much more. It has striking surface details, and a very light gray color overall. It was offered in the early 1980s.
> 
> Regards,
> Jim


Hi Jim -- can you scrounge up some pictures for us?

--Henry


----------



## teslabe

I'd buy anything that would be put out, as long as there are many pictures to help me with my build......:thumbsup:


----------



## JPhil123

g_xii said:


> Hi Jim -- can you scrounge up some pictures for us?
> 
> --Henry


Hello, Henry...

I used to have a picture posted on my old aol site, in a special effects-type shot, but the site is now gone, sorry. They were poor flash pictures anyway and I did not keep them on my new PC.

I will take a couple of new digital shots and post them the next time I do some spaceship pictures. In the mean time, the picture associated with post #770 in this thread really captures the way my replica looks. In addition to the hull details, one of the most impressive details of the replica remains the detail on the fusion core. White paint on the lenses of the fusion core are give a nice impression overall. The mini Jupiter 2 is nice. I wish I could see a picture of the planned 10 incher.

Regards,
Jim


----------



## MAX WEDGE

JPhil123 said:


> Hello, Henry...
> 
> I used to have a picture posted on my old aol site, in a special effects-type shot, but the site is now gone, sorry. They were poor flash pictures anyway and I did not keep them on my new PC.
> 
> I will take a couple of new digital shots and post them the next time I do some spaceship pictures. In the mean time, the picture associated with post #770 in this thread really captures the way my replica looks. In addition to the hull details, one of the most impressive details of the replica remains the detail on the fusion core. White paint on the lenses of the fusion core are give a nice impression overall. The mini Jupiter 2 is nice. I wish I could see a picture of the planned 10 incher.
> Regards,
> Jim


 I would be curious to see what one that was bought new out of Starlog looks like compared to mine? I recieved mine as a "project" and had it restored by a friend who was familiar with this particular model


----------



## Richard Baker

toyroy said:


> I'd certainly be interested in a serious book about the G12 and J2. Hopefully, there's not too much information that has been irretrievably lost.
> 
> For one thing, I'd like to know how they did the sound heard on the Jupiter 2's take-offs and landings. And what was the intended purpose of the ten footer?


IIRC it was mentioned earlier the ten footer was intended to be part of an scene of an attack by the cyclops on the Jupiter 2 that was never filmed.


----------



## BlackbirdCD

interesting product follow-up for Moebius... A 4 inch Jupiter 2, based on their new model, with a simplified interior. Sort of like their smaller Seaview, FS, B-9, etc.


----------



## toyroy

Richard Baker said:


> IIRC it was mentioned earlier the ten footer was intended to be part of an scene of an attack by the cyclops on the Jupiter 2 that was never filmed.


Yes, I've heard that before. I've also heard it posited that it was made for actual crash shots, which, of course, were never shown.

In another recent thread, the fact that it had working landing gear was mentioned. Furthermore, I've only heard of, and seen pictures of, the one ten footer, which was evidently a J2. No mention of a G12 ten footer.


----------



## Steve H

toyroy said:


> Yes, I've heard that before. I've also heard it posited that it was made for actual crash shots, which, of course, were never shown.
> 
> In another recent thread, the fact that it had working landing gear was mentioned. Furthermore, I've only heard of, and seen pictures of, the one ten footer, which was evidently a J2. No mention of a G12 ten footer.


I remember seeing SOMEWHERE that there was test footage of a J2(or G12) crashing and sliding out, it was color and part of the same 'lost' footage as the color second unit shots of the Chariot tooling about the desert.

That was a BIG ship, but was it the 10 footer? They clearly had problems getting it to crash right...


----------



## Robert Hargrave

*What a discussion!*

Moebius just made another sale via Culttvman pre-order, I haven't been following this thread, just looking at a page here and there. Untill tonight and going through all the mass of pages with all the information and test photos posted how could I not put in my order. Tomorrow I start throwing out all the rough pencil sketches and line drawings from my PL J-2 project and start gathering new stuff for this wonderful monster. Some say a lower level can't be done but I squeezed one nice looking one into my PL J-2. I only regret I built it with the gear down and messed up the galley by not putting in the 2 angled walls, instead I left them straight, at the time didn't think I'd get the shape correct even after I had scratch built all those bunk bulkheads for the sleeping areas. Yes head room was a little tight, but ca'mon its a space ship economy class, so lets see a little sanding here, a knock here with a widget, look it almost fits.....:freak:
http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/14/j2dff7.jpg


----------



## g_xii

JPhil123 said:


> Hello, Henry...
> 
> I used to have a picture posted on my old aol site, in a special effects-type shot, but the site is now gone, sorry. They were poor flash pictures anyway and I did not keep them on my new PC.
> 
> I will take a couple of new digital shots and post them the next time I do some spaceship pictures. In the mean time, the picture associated with post #770 in this thread really captures the way my replica looks. In addition to the hull details, one of the most impressive details of the replica remains the detail on the fusion core. White paint on the lenses of the fusion core are give a nice impression overall. The mini Jupiter 2 is nice. I wish I could see a picture of the planned 10 incher.
> 
> Regards,
> Jim


Thanks Jim - I'll keep an eye out! 

--Henry


----------



## fernieo

JPhil123 said:


> Hello.
> 
> I would love to see a book of that nature. Perhaps it could include some information about other scale model props used on the show, and any changes they were subjected to.
> 
> I'd also like to say something about that mini-Jupiter 2. I purchased one back in the 1980s and, for the size, it had wonderful details. I never knew that a 10 inch size was considered or constructed, but given the quality of the smaller one and the talent behind it, I'm sure it would have been astounding. I would love to have seen pictures of the 10 inch Jupiter 2.
> 
> Regards,
> Jim Crompton


Here's a page from the Scale Modeler article on Dave's 10" Jupiter 2:
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff111/foj3000/p3b.jpg


----------



## Ron Gross

fernieo said:


> Here's a page from the Scale Modeler article on Dave's 10" Juptier 2:
> http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff111/foj3000/p3b.jpg


You beat me to the punch. However, I will offer another impressive photo from that same issue.

I feel that the Merriman effort and all J2 offerings from the past are relevant to the discussion of the Moebius model, as they should be viewed as important and necessary steps in the general developmental process. In Dave M.'s case, he was really the granddaddy of them all, as his original work even predated Lunar Models by several years. 

Say what you want about Dave, but he was certainly there for me in a mentoring role when I did my first article for Scale Modeler in 1992 (Chariot scratch build). He also threw his full support behind my own J2 project when the time came, which is something that not everyone in that position would necessarily do.


----------



## fernieo

Ron Gross said:


> You beat me to the punch. However, I will offer another impressive photo from that same issue.
> 
> I feel that the Merriman effort and all J2 offerings from the past are relevant to the discussion of the Moebius model, as they should be viewed as important and necessary steps in the general developmental process. In Dave M.'s case, he was really the granddaddy of them all, as his original work even predated Lunar Models by several years.
> 
> Say what you want about Dave, but he was certainly there for me in a mentoring role when I did my first article for Scale Modeler in 1992 (Chariot scratch build). He also threw his full support behind my own J2 project when the time came, which is something that not everyone in that position would necessarily do.


I've uploaded the entire article for those interested:
http://s238.photobucket.com/albums/ff111/foj3000/Merriman J2/
Caution- Large files ( around 2-3 megs each)


----------



## MAX WEDGE

Ron Gross said:


> You beat me to the punch. However, I will offer another impressive photo from that same issue.I feel that the Merriman effort and all J2 offerings from the past are relevant to the discussion of the Moebius model, as they should be viewed as important and necessary steps in the general developmental process. In Dave M.'s case, he was really the granddaddy of them all, as his original work even predated Lunar Models by several years


 That would make for some great reading, following the history on all the J-2 Models and the different influences that have led up to the current Moebius kit


----------



## Steve H

MAX WEDGE said:


> That would make for some great reading, following the history on all the J-2 Models and the different influences that have led up to the current Moebius kit


Hence my suggestion up a page or so. 

You have to talk about what's been, to understand what's now and a long, long slog from there to here. So MUCH information has come to light I think everyone (Ron, David, Paul, John George and Ringo..sorry, all you guys) at some point stepped back and said "Man, if I knew then what I know now!"

I recall running around the house with my big, crappy, 2-piece styrofoam Jupiter 2 from the Mattel 'Switch and Go' Lost In Space set, flying thru meteor storms, endlessly crash landing on planets...I tried to make landing legs but it didn't work, but I DID glue a gum machine 'prize capsule' piece on top to emulate the astrogation dome, and endless adventures until my cat clawed the living daylights out of the foam...I would have been very very happy with the PL (nee Aurora) J2, and when I began serious model building I would have thought I had died and gone to heaven with the upcoming Moebius (Tamiya/Hasegawa level quality) kit.

It's good to know that if IA didn't have a Rick Sternback, that spirit of logic, attention to detail exists in the people who worked on this project, and full props to Moebius for USING that talent when, let's face it, they *could* have just gotten some stills of the J2, thrown them at some random guy at a prototyping house and said "here, make this".

Glad that's not the case.


----------



## MAX WEDGE

Steve H said:


> Hence my suggestion up a page or so.



I thought you were refering to all the "Studio Miniatures", I am refering to all the Fan/Company produced Models over the past 27 years? D&E, Lunar,Polar, and other lesser known manufactures out there?


----------



## Steve H

MAX WEDGE said:


> I thought you were refering to all the "Studio Miniatures", I am refering to all the Fan/Company produced Models over the past 27 years? D&E, Lunar,Polar, and other lesser known manufactures out there?


Yes, but it's all part of the whole, isn't it? How could David M. talk of his part of working on the Moebius J2 without referencing his earlier efforts? How could Ron discuss his part without discussing the PL kit?

I tend to think that showcasing the previous kits made only highlights the interest, the desire that led to the creation of the new J2 kit.

of course I'm one of those crazy people who believes in that 'Connections' thing, how seemingly unrelated discoveries lead up to something, a creation where the whole is greater than the sum of the parts.

Like, as an example, the events that put Frank of Moebius into the position to create the company, the constant desire to somehow revive Aurora, in spirit if not in fact. Did the compromises that happened with the creation of the PL Jupiter 2 lead to a desire to make a kit that was (will be?) the most accurate rendering of the J2 possible?

Ya know, stuff like that.

Of course there's doubtless NDAs in effect that will prevent some issues discussed, and others might have a sense of not wanting to burn bridges and thus will hold their tongues on some matters, but all that being there, there's a HUGE story going on here and I feel it should be told. I wish I had to chops to actually do something, but I hope someone can step up.

So, it's two parts. History and such on the Studio Miniatures, and the making of the Moebius Jupiter 2. That's a lot of stuff there. I'd buy it.


----------



## Gary K

Ron Gross said:


> I feel that the Merriman effort and all J2 offerings from the past are relevant to the discussion of the Moebius model, as they should be viewed as important and necessary steps in the general developmental process. In Dave M.'s case, he was really the granddaddy of them all, as his original work even predated Lunar Models by several years.


Dave's accomplishments are even more impressive when you consider the fact that he didn't have instant-access to the entire TV series on DVD, and 1001 ref pics weren't available online. 

Gary


----------



## Richard Baker

Robert Hargrave said:


> Moebius just made another sale via Culttvman pre-order, I haven't been following this thread, just looking at a page here and there. Untill tonight and going through all the mass of pages with all the information and test photos posted how could I not put in my order. Tomorrow I start throwing out all the rough pencil sketches and line drawings from my PL J-2 project and start gathering new stuff for this wonderful monster. Some say a lower level can't be done but I squeezed one nice looking one into my PL J-2. I only regret I built it with the gear down and messed up the galley by not putting in the 2 angled walls, instead I left them straight, at the time didn't think I'd get the shape correct even after I had scratch built all those bunk bulkheads for the sleeping areas. Yes head room was a little tight, but ca'mon its a space ship economy class, so lets see a little sanding here, a knock here with a widget, look it almost fits.....:freak:
> http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/14/j2dff7.jpg


I like that internal configuration- looks more like a functioning vessel instead of a stage set...

.


----------



## toyroy

fernieo said:


> I've uploaded the entire article for those interested:
> http://s238.photobucket.com/albums/ff111/foj3000/Merriman J2/
> Caution- Large files ( around 2-3 megs each)


Thank you fernieo, that's a wonderful gift.


----------



## Ron Gross

GEH737 said:


> I think a book on the Irwin Allen vehicles would be a great tie-in to the Moebius kits. There's so much information scattered about, and it's really impressive to see what guys have put together - Seaview, FS-1, J2, Pod, Chariot - that'd be a great reference book


Others have chimed in on this idea, so I thought I would offer a few thoughts. Basically, I would be interested in contributing to such a project if there were still a use for hand drawn plans, as I simply don't have the necessary CAD skills to do it any other way.

Now I'd like to offer a brief reveal, which I think some may find interesting. The fact is that I have already done such a book, but it was a long time ago. Those who have early editions of Richard Messmann's "LIS Technical Manual" will notice that it is described as "the first of three parts" on the back cover. The fact is that Parts 2 & 3 were to have been my contributions, with the second volume actually completed in 1987. What happened is an interesting story.

Briefly, Richard met Irwin Allen in the parking lot outside his office, handed him a copy of Volume 1, and proceeded to watch him totally flip out. This was soon followed by warning letters to the editor threatening legal action. At that point, I decided to withdraw all of my material, which included a cover illustration for their "LIS Tribute Book." I am posting a few images so that you can get an idea of what almost was. 

You can probably see where the logo/star field came from on the substitute cover they used for the tribute book. The unused illustration is an 11" X 17" tempera/pastel rendering, and I still have it. In anticipation of questions as to whether or not I would ever reveal the contents of Tech Manual #2, I'm afraid the answer is no. The fact is that there isn't much about it that is truly accurate due to the limited resources available at the time. As such, it would only have been relevant from a 1987 perspective, a unique point in time which obviously has long since past.

But to get closer back to topic, I would certainly support something like this as a companion piece for the new Moebius model, and I am willing to step up to some degree if asked.
Ron G.


----------



## MAX WEDGE

Ron Gross said:


> .Richard met Irwin Allen in the parking lot outside his office, handed him a copy of Volume 1, and proceeded to watch him totally flip out. This was soon followed by warning letters to the editor threatening legal action. At that point, I decided to withdraw all of my material, which included a cover illustration for their "LIS Tribute Book." I am posting a few images so that you can get an idea of what almost was



I.A. was the "Master of Disaster" in more ways then one


----------



## Steve H

Now, see, THAT is the sort of lost history I'm talking about!

And it's a shame that Allen wasn't as forward thinking as Roddenberry and embraced his fans, but I think he felt he was 'just' making children's shows and once he went to the big blockbuster disaster movies, that was just...no longer interesting.

And Ron, it WOULD be cool to see that stuff in some way, in some future time, with annotations of what you know now, why you thought what you did, show the logic you were using at the time due to the lack of hard, factual data.

There's a show I know which has an oft-used quote that goes something like "A man doesn't wish to be reminded of the mistakes of his youth" but I don't see any mistakes here, just passion and enthusiasm for a subject, which has brought you to this place, here and now. yes? 

Suddenly I feel like Yul Brenner in "the Magnificent Seven"...."that's three"


----------



## toyroy

I don't know the story with Allen. Did he want to distance himself from LiS? Roddenberry was actively involved with his post-Trek fandom.


----------



## m jamieson

I don't know if it was distancing himself, or just that he was an over zealous control person because from what I understand Billy Mumy came up against the same kind of reaction when he approached Irwin with a script for a reunion movie.


----------



## flyingfrets

m jamieson said:


> I don't know if it was distancing himself, or just that he was an over zealous control person because from what I understand Billy Mumy came up against the same kind of reaction when he approached Irwin with a script for a reunion movie.


From what I recall of an interview with Mumy, Allen went ballistic and told him if there were ever a "reunion" movie, it would be *HIS* movie, from a story *HE'D* written and wanted to hear nothing more about it. Sounds more like control issues to me than a lack of vision (though one could successfully argue that he suffered from that as well).


----------



## MAX WEDGE

Wouldn't be till I.A passed away before things started to look up for the Fans? I.A. just didn't get it, he was actually alienating the very people he was trying to entertain?


----------



## m jamieson

Well I was tempted to write control 'freak', but thought they might be too harsh! LOL!!


----------



## m jamieson

flyingfrets said:


> From what I recall of an interview with Mumy, Allen went ballistic and told him if there were ever a "reunion" movie, it would be *HIS* movie, from a story *HE'D* written and wanted to hear nothing more about it. Sounds more like control issues to me than a lack of vision (though one could successfully argue that he suffered from that as well).


Sometimes both on the same day!


----------



## MAX WEDGE

So in regards to the Moebius J-2, anybody have some thoughts on how they will build thiers up? I personally will eliminate any 3rd Season detail and go with 1st Season. My goal is to build a custom box to house the power source, and run the wiring thru the landing gear struts into the base? I would like to be able to operate the various light functions from switches mounted in the front. I don't like the idea having to handle the Model everytime I want to operate the lights, the more you handle it, the more chances of things breaking:drunk: I don't know squat about electronics, but I am sure Randy at VFX can help out:thumbsup:


----------



## Ron Gross

Steve H said:


> Now, see, THAT is the sort of lost history I'm talking about!
> 
> And it's a shame that Allen wasn't as forward thinking as Roddenberry and embraced his fans, but I think he felt he was 'just' making children's shows and once he went to the big blockbuster disaster movies, that was just...no longer interesting.
> 
> And Ron, it WOULD be cool to see that stuff in some way, in some future time, with annotations of what you know now, why you thought what you did, show the logic you were using at the time due to the lack of hard, factual data.
> 
> There's a show I know which has an oft-used quote that goes something like "A man doesn't wish to be reminded of the mistakes of his youth" but I don't see any mistakes here, just passion and enthusiasm for a subject, which has brought you to this place, here and now. yes?
> 
> Suddenly I feel like Yul Brenner in "the Magnificent Seven"...."that's three"


Steve,
You are very kind. No one will ever know how difficult it was for me to withdraw that material - a real heartbreak at the time. As it was, it had to wait another five years to finally get something in print, with was my first Scale Modeler article with the help of Dave Merriman. That event began a series that culminated in the J2 two parter, and now look where we are today. We are about to embark on the greatest treasure of all with the new Moebius model.
Ron G.


----------



## Krel

I have read that IA did use the ten foot J2 on screen, in the beginning of "City Beneath the Sea". The buildings in the background of the office set were made from the J2 miniatures.

I read a few years back that the reason that there were no movies made from the IA shows was because Irwin didn't own all of the rights to the shows. He sold parts off to get them financed, and in fact LIS was not his show. He was hired by Bing Crosby productions (I think) to run the show. That maybe while he was so reticent about letting others into doing the show, the rights were spread out. IA's wife has been trying to do a Voyage movie since at least the 90s.

David.


----------



## RMC

DAVE MERRIMAN............
I read your post a few pages ago and may I say bravo ! .....your awesome !


----------



## Dar

MAX WEDGE said:


> So in regards to the Moebius J-2, anybody have some thoughts on how they will build thiers up? I personally will eliminate any 3rd Season detail and go with 1st Season. My goal is to build a custom box to house the power source, and run the wiring thru the landing gear struts into the base? I would like to be able to operate the various light functions from switches mounted in the front. I don't like the idea having to handle the Model everytime I want to operate the lights, the more you handle it, the more chances of things breaking:drunk: I don't know squat about electronics, but I am sure Randy at VFX can help out:thumbsup:


It would be cool to see someone paint it up in 1st season black and white.


----------



## JPhil123

fernieo said:


> I've uploaded the entire article for those interested:
> http://s238.photobucket.com/albums/ff111/foj3000/Merriman J2/
> Caution- Large files ( around 2-3 megs each)


Hello...

Many thanks for those that provided links to the pictures and article. The 10 inch Jupiter 2 looks awesome! That Jupiter 2 looks very realistic given the size. It really is obvious that great thought - and tremendous talent - was behind its creation and build. Since few Jupiter 2 models were readily available at that time (certainly none with fusion core lighting), I know I would have dipped into my savings and investment plan to have one had they been marketed. Praise must also be given because of the limited information available at the time.

Information about those talented builders and artists and the replicas they created deserves to be in book form especially since their creations remind us of a time when real models were behind spacecraft/aircraft flying effects on TV and in the movies.

Regards,
Jim


----------



## JPhil123

MAX WEDGE said:


> I would be curious to see what one that was bought new out of Starlog looks like compared to mine? I recieved mine as a "project" and had it restored by a friend who was familiar with this particular model


Max Wedge...
The 4 inch Jupiter 2 I had purchased was complete. There was no assembly or painting.

Jim


----------



## david merriman

Keep on topic, damit!


----------



## JPhil123

BlackbirdCD said:


> interesting product follow-up for Moebius... A 4 inch Jupiter 2, based on their new model, with a simplified interior. Sort of like their smaller Seaview, FS, B-9, etc.


Blackbird,

If such a followup were to be seriously considered, a 4 inch Jupiter 2 would be OK, but a 10 Gemini XII would also be OK...only kidding.

Jim


----------



## Ron Gross

david merriman said:


> Keep on topic, damit!


You love it, and you know it.


----------



## Ron Gross

Dar said:


> It would be cool to see someone paint it up in 1st season black and white.


Maybe not to that extreme, but I may opt to replace that latter season "universal translator" with a first season scratch-built "atomic clock." To me, it looked cool and made more sense right below the flight recorder.


----------



## john_trek

Hey, people are being pretty good about sticking to topic. At least no one has mentioned the Spindri..... uh, never mind.


----------



## MAX WEDGE

JPhil123 said:


> Max Wedge...
> The 4 inch Jupiter 2 I had purchased was complete. There was no assembly or painting.
> Jim


 Yeah I know, but mine was acquired in pieces, and unpainted


----------



## MAX WEDGE

Ron Gross said:


> Maybe not to that extreme, but I may opt to replace that latter season "universal translator" with a first season scratch-built "atomic clock." To me, it looked cool and made more sense right below the flight recorder.


 Yep, me too! If you do decide to scratch build an "atomic clock" keep me in mind as I will want a casting from you


----------



## toyroy

MAX WEDGE said:


> ...mine was acquired in pieces, and unpainted


Can you make a pill holder or cell phone out of that thing?


----------



## DaDragon

Ron Gross said:


> Others have chimed in on this idea, so I thought I would offer a few thoughts. Basically, I would be interested in contributing to such a project if there were still a use for hand drawn plans, as I simply don't have the necessary CAD skills to do it any other way.
> 
> Now I'd like to offer a brief reveal, which I think some may find interesting. The fact is that I have already done such a book, but it was a long time ago. Those who have early editions of Richard Messmann's "LIS Technical Manual" will notice that it is described as "the first of three parts" on the back cover. The fact is that Parts 2 & 3 were to have been my contributions, with the second volume actually completed in 1987. What happed is an interesting story.
> 
> Briefly, Richard met Irwin Allen in the parking lot outside his office, handed him a copy of Volume 1, and proceeded to watch him totally flip out. This was soon followed by warning letters to the editor threatening legal action. At that point, I decided to withdraw all of my material, which included a cover illustration for their "LIS Tribute Book." I am posting a few images so that you can get an idea of what almost was.
> 
> You can probably see where the logo/star field came from on the substitute cover they used for the tribute book. The unused illustration is an 11" X 17" tempera/pastel rendering, and I still have it. In anticipation of questions as to whether or not I would ever reveal the contents of Tech Manual #2, I'm afraid the answer is no. The fact is that there isn't much about it that is truly accurate due to the limited resources available at the time. As such, it would only have been relevant from a 1987 perspective, a unique point in time which obviously has long since past.
> 
> But to get closer back to topic, I would certainly support something like this as a companion piece for the new Moebius model, and I am willing to step up to some degree if asked.
> Ron G.


All this information is _AWESOME_! :thumbsup:

There's plenty on this forum alone to update the book(s) and/or produce a completely new version. Besides, a 1987 perspective is not necessarily a bad thing: a "unique point in time" is a historical perspective and as such, valuable insight. 

Now who do we have to assassinate to get copyright??? :devil:

Graham.


----------



## John P

MAX WEDGE said:


> So in regards to the Moebius J-2, anybody have some thoughts on how they will build thiers up?


I'll probably use glue of some kind.


:wave:


----------



## Robert Hargrave

Richard Baker said:


> I like that internal configuration- looks more like a functioning vessel instead of a stage set....


When I was building this model and posted photos of the flight deck a few complained about the long distance from the viewport to the end of the flight deck desk top, saying it was way to long, and another member pointed out there was no way to shorten it to look like the flight deck in the TV show, it just wasn't possible. And without changing the angel of the hull of the ship it isn't possible on any model of the J-2. Another regret better looking cargo bays, need more junk in them.


----------



## Robert Hargrave

Ron Gross said:


> Maybe not to that extreme, but I may opt to replace that latter season "universal translator" with a first season scratch-built "atomic clock." To me, it looked cool and made more sense right below the flight recorder.


Try scratch building an Atomic Clock to fit in the PL J-2 my dogs even learned to cuss when I was cutting and sanding and dropping all the parts it took to make mine, and you can hardly see it in the photo.
http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/9726/j2cot8.jpg


----------



## Ron Gross

Robert Hargrave said:


> When I was building this model and posted photos of the flight deck a few complained about the long distance from the viewport to the end of the flight deck desk top, saying it was way to long, and another member pointed out there was no way to shorten it to look like the flight deck in the TV show, it just wasn't possible. And without changing the angel of the hull of the ship it isn't possible on any model of the J-2. Another regret better looking cargo bays, need more junk in them.


You can't eliminate the problem of the flight deck distance to the viewport, but there is a way to minimize it. My way of doing so was to spread out the internal appointments so that they would occupy a larger circumference, and slightly widen the individual wall sections. Some might view this approach as a "distortion" of the original studio set, but I view it differently.

When you think about it, since when is a studio set the last word on anything? There are times when they are not even built to scale in order to make the actors appear more prominent. To me, the important criteria is that the overall illusion remain intact. There is really no "right" or "wrong" on this issue, but the above happens to be my personal preference.

The attached image is of Ron Caudillo's paper model of the J2 that is based entirely on my original plans. It is a much more accurate representation than the PL J2 turned out to be with respect to the intended internal layout.
Ron G.


----------



## RSN

Robert Hargrave said:


> Try scratch building an Atomic Clock to fit in the PL J-2 my dogs even learned to cuss when I was cutting and sanding and dropping all the parts it took to make mine, and you can hardly see it in the photo.
> http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/9726/j2cot8.jpg


Here is my Atomic Clock that I built for my PL Gemini XII conversion. It is larger, and easier to see, because I scaled up the interior to match the full size set as seen it the pilot.


----------



## Ron Gross

That looks very cool. And so does yours, Robert.


----------



## Steve H

Ron Gross said:


> Maybe not to that extreme, but I may opt to replace that latter season "universal translator" with a first season scratch-built "atomic clock." To me, it looked cool and made more sense right below the flight recorder.


I suspect that the clever people who lurk and post here will come up with all manner of aftermarket parts once there's some hard data (i.e. test shots in the pipeline) available.

I mean, right off the bat, no matter how good the plastic is, I suspect there'll be photoetched ladder rungs and lift cage parts released, someone may do resin lasers for the 'gun locker' that was then wasn't there in the cubbyhole near the porthole, replacement wall panels for the various changes...

Of course, it would help to have these changes, these differences documented *hint hint*

(oh, I am a little stinker!  )


----------



## toyroy

What was supposed to be _above_ the flight deck? I was watching _The Reluctant Stowaway_, and noticed the ladder next to the elevator went up to a hole in the ceiling, the same size as the hole in the main deck.


----------



## Ron Gross

There was a round hatch directly above the elevator, and clearly seen on the exterior/roof. If I remember correctly from the Fox blueprints, it was labeled something like "observation blister." If there was also something above the ladder, there was no corresponding detail on the outer hull.


----------



## m jamieson

Yeah..that elevator had just too many controls for just up and down between two floors!
if they had developed the observation blister it would have proved interesting(if done well) but I'm sure it always came down to budget. Thank god the writers never tried to use the ladder to enter some ridiculous third level attic!! At most it should have been an access panel to some (insert cosmic techno-babble here) electronics.


----------



## m jamieson

Maybe Will and Penny used to sneak up there to smoke! lol


----------



## m jamieson

It's disappointing that with all the blueprints that have been discovered, that no diagrams of the actual mechanics of the gear and rotating light system were ever found. (At least that have been made public)..So other than fuzzy video grabs from the autopsy and the 3rd season surviving chase-core lighting ..nothing seems to be really down on paper to how it was really done on the models. I know we have all reverse engineered and pulled a few paragraphs from special effects books to figure it out...but it's just not the same as single diagram from the mechanical effects guys who built it. And we know Fox likely didn't do ANYTHING without some documentation.


----------



## Gary K

Ron Gross said:


> There was a round hatch directly above the elevator, and clearly seen on the exterior/roof. If I remember correctly from the Fox blueprints, it was labeled something like "observation blister." If there was also something above the ladder, there was no corresponding detail on the outer hull.


If you look closely at 1st season shots of the elevator, you can see *something* inside the opening above the elevator. Bill Hedges, head of the Yahoo group on LIS props, has posted more information about the equipment that was designed to be used in the blister:

"I just just aquired another interesting full scale blueprint of an unused piece of Jupiter 2 equipment, the navigation equipment in the elevator blister. Probably some form of space sextant, it had 3 star fix lenses and a sun lens. The clear dome had a 44" inside diameter, which was reached by the elevator. There are rollers on the prop so it could roll around the track on perimeter of the dome base. Also the blueprints specify that this prop was to double to the exterior of the spaceship, so it was meant to be also filmed from the outside of the hull looking in. Too bad this was never done. I wonder if any of the cast remember this being there. The blueprint is dated June 28(probably 1965)"

Gary


----------



## m jamieson

I've seen that same blueprint, but I didn't see any indication that it was ever constructed. I would think someone like Billy Mumy would remember...cause if I were him back then, I would have been climbing all over that thing and pushing every button possible when no one was looking! lol


----------



## Steve H

Gary K said:


> If you look closely at 1st season shots of the elevator, you can see *something* inside the opening above the elevator. Bill Hedges, head of the Yahoo group on LIS props, has posted more information about the equipment that was designed to be used in the blister:
> 
> "I just just aquired another interesting full scale blueprint of an unused piece of Jupiter 2 equipment, the navigation equipment in the elevator blister. Probably some form of space sextant, it had 3 star fix lenses and a sun lens. The clear dome had a 44" inside diameter, which was reached by the elevator. There are rollers on the prop so it could roll around the track on perimeter of the dome base. Also the blueprints specify that this prop was to double to the exterior of the spaceship, so it was meant to be also filmed from the outside of the hull looking in. Too bad this was never done. I wonder if any of the cast remember this being there. The blueprint is dated June 28(probably 1965)"
> 
> Gary


NNngggg! All these studio blueprints! anguish! mixed with nerdgasm! 

But that fits exactly with what I had thought, or, well, not EXACTLY but even more logical.

I had assumed the lift went up to that hatch and it would be used for egress if the main airlock was jammed, or maybe even as a docking lock.

But manual astrogation makes just as much sense. And like the 'scanner' blisters on a B-36, no doubt the dome could be knocked out for emergency escape.

Good stuff!


----------



## Robert Hargrave

RSN said:


> Here is my Atomic Clock that I built for my PL Gemini XII conversion. It is larger, and easier to see, because I scaled up the interior to match the full size set as seen it the pilot.


Great looking shot.


----------



## enterprise_fan

In the IA universe strange things happened. We have a space craft, from the outwards appearances, has only one level. On the inside however there has been seen on flim that there are three - command deck, living quarters and the ever elusive engine room. 

Elsewhere they packed in the chariot and the crew scratch built drop pod out of spare parts. So it would stand to reason that the elevator would extend out the top of the hull and out the bottom. How else would B9 get out of the spacecraft if J2 is sitting on its landing gear? But then again we are talking about the IA universe where anything is possible. :freak:

So how hard would it be to add that detail to the upper and lower exterior? Maybe Moebius could have an after market builder make an elevator and B9 for when the J2 is on its landing gear.


----------



## otto

Its a well known scientific fact that the Time Lords (tm) stole all of their technology from Irwin Allen. Thats how Dr. Who can fit 100 people very comfortably into a phone booth. Some say (though this is often disputed in the scientific community) That Irwin Allen was indeed the original Time Lord.


----------



## Richard Baker

Do any of the circular top hull hatches come close to the elevator position? I am thinking the Observation bBlister might have been intended to be retractable if used.

.


----------



## m jamieson

enterprise_fan said:


> In the IA universe strange things happened. We have a space craft, from the outwards appearances, has only one level. On the inside however there has been seen on flim that there are three - command deck, living quarters and the ever elusive engine room.
> 
> Elsewhere they packed in the chariot and the crew scratch built drop pod out of spare parts. So it would stand to reason that the elevator would extend out the top of the hull and out the bottom. How else would B9 get out of the spacecraft if J2 is sitting on its landing gear? But then again we are talking about the IA universe where anything is possible. :freak:
> 
> So how hard would it be to add that detail to the upper and lower exterior? Maybe Moebius could have an after market builder make an elevator and B9 for when the J2 is on its landing gear.


How hard would it be just to scratch build it then?


----------



## toyroy

Richard Baker said:


> Do any of the circular top hull hatches come close to the elevator position? I am thinking the Observation bBlister might have been intended to be retractable if used.


I think that was what Ron was saying...


Ron Gross said:


> There was a round hatch directly above the elevator, and clearly seen on the exterior/roof. If I remember correctly from the Fox blueprints, it was labeled something like "observation blister."...


I still want to know where the ladder and the hole in the ceiling went. Perhaps, that's where the controls for the bubble were?


----------



## djnick66

MAX WEDGE said:


> So in regards to the Moebius J-2, anybody have some thoughts on how they will build thiers up? I personally will eliminate any 3rd Season detail and go with 1st Season.
> 
> 
> 
> Personally thats how I would want it to look. First season was the most interesting for me. And also the setting for the best of the shows. Im not sure why exactly the third season was chosen... except for simplicty. Thats my only real disappointment. I would want to try to make the electronics self contained so I can make the landing gear retractable.
Click to expand...


----------



## toyroy

enterprise_fan said:


> ...How else would B9 get out of the spacecraft if J2 is sitting on its landing gear?...


I think we are to assume he simply steps down the gear ladders. But that raises the question about whether his feet actually _fit_ on the steps.

I think it's possible that the lifting brackets on his shoulders may have been intended to lower him out the hatch on the bottom of the fusion core.


----------



## starseeker

This is on topic??
The nav blister was retractable, according to the blueprints for the full scale J2 mock up. Yet another thing that doesn't fit into the Jupiter 2. On one ext bp , it was centered 29 degrees off the center line, starboard of the ladder's final position, not over the elevator, despite its name on its own blueprint. The blister was 3'9" in outer diameter and the cover slid forward along the circumference toward the fwd. airlock. On an early blueprint reproduced in the J2 Tech Manual, the ladder and elevator occupied the same octant, directly opposite the viewports. Directly behind the elevator (and reached through it, like a revolving door it appears) was a complete airlock and a second external hatch. Possibly at some point the elevator and ladder were placed one octant over, in which case the blister might have been over the elevator. Also in the J2 Tech Manual, in the bp for the full size J2 mock up, the blister is placed directly over the ladder. There are also the open/close buttons over the ladder, indicating that something must have been above. That must have been my reasoning 20 years ago when I made a sliding hatch for mine centered over the ladder (and with a forced perspective [ie 1/2" below the upper deck floor] lower deck floor underneath) and just set a removable dome (inevitably now lost) in the opening.


----------



## Steve H

starseeker said:


> This is on topic??
> The nav blister was retractable, according to the blueprints for the full scale J2 mock up. Yet another thing that doesn't fit into the Jupiter 2. I made a sliding hatch for mine and just set a removable dome (now lost) on top. It was centered 29 degrees off the center line, directly above the ladder, not the elevator, despite its name on its own blueprint. It was 3'9" in outer diameter and the cover slid forward along the circumference toward the airlock..


*SHHHHHHH*

Come on, man, don't rattle the cage, just roll with what's going on! 

(and I think the smackdown earlier was due to all the talk about hull shape which seems like it may sound like it's being critical of the 'too late we've cut the tooling' reality...THIS is just discussing options for building and the potential for aftermarket parts makers to jump in)

But what's funny, looking at that blueprint....the sighting controls, that looks a HECK of a lot like the nose gunnery control station on the early B-36. 

I could easily see that entire unit sliding slightly inside the lift cage to be pushed up out the hatch for use


----------



## Richard Baker

toyroy said:


> I think we are to assume he simply steps down the gear ladders. But that raises the question about whether his feet actually _fit_ on the steps.
> 
> I think it's possible that the lifting brackets on his shoulders may have been intended to lower him out the hatch on the bottom of the fusion core.


I am not positive but I do not think the B-9 would be able to fit through the exterior set's landing gear opening or get around the support strut. His 'feets' might be too big to use the gear stairs no matter how articulated they might be (length extension). IIRC he was never shown leaving the ship while it was on it's landing gear- he just was on the ground outside when we saw him.


----------



## m jamieson

In the Derelict the way to the gear steps was down the main ladder...of course the continuity of this had changed by second and third season. We can make up any story we want..the main elevator lowered him or whatever. I'm sure by the time some writer or director said .."how does the Robot leave the ship with the gear down?" Irwin probably said 'Who cares! ..just put him on the ground and film him from there! " I mean ..look how most aliens show up or leave..they blow up some pyrotechnics under the camera. and in the smoke and flash the actor walks off and the camera starts again without them..it was quick and most important..it was cheap! How we get our robot to the ground on our J2 models can be like it was forty years ago (left to our imagination) or we can use that imagination and scratch build whatever makes pseudo-sense if we feel the need to.


----------



## djnick66

Remember the robot did originally have independent legs. He is seen stepping up and down a couple times


----------



## j2man

J-2 operations manual used the 2 hooks on the upper side of the robot's torso to use some type of wire to lift the robot and drop him down.......Somewhere anyhow. He could have always used the chariot exit ramp.........................


----------



## Richard Baker

djnick66 said:


> Remember the robot did originally have independent legs. He is seen stepping up and down a couple times


I remember his legs moving too- but it was more of a shuffle than walking stemps. Looking at the size of each 'tread-foot', knees and hips (or functional equivalents) I do not see any evidence of enough range of motion to walk down stairs. I have to check relative sizes, but I think the stairs were also not deep enough to allow the tread-foot to position on each one half way so the center of weight would rest on the stairstep.
I love the B-9, but there was unsual limitations to his design- lik ehow does he pick up anything resting on the ground? Robby of Forbidden Planet had similar limitations- he could not 'sit down'. When you see him at the end sitting at the controls it is really only the top half of the costume- the leg-hip section was airbrushed cutouts in the sitting position.

.


----------



## X15-A2

The navigation blister was supposed to be at the top of travel for the elevator, the dome being raised by the elevator. The sighting devices are most likely stock items found in the props department. They used and planned to use many pieces that were surplus from Air Force aircraft gun turrets, mostly WWII vintage I believe. A little research would turn up the pieces in question. The sight device near the main hatch was another item cobbled together from surplus AF equipment.


----------



## m jamieson

He did move each leg independently in a few episodes of the first season but actor Bob May became exhausted and over heated so they discontinued that and just towed him or used the Bermuda shorts for walking. Really though..it was physically impossible in his design to put one foot in front of the other, which is what he would have to do to navigate the J2 steps or a ladder. Again there is no functional logic in most of the IA universe ..he was a big 1950's kinoshita style robot with lots of blinky lights just like Irwin liked. Didn't matter if it couldn't do anything but roll, spin and make jokes with Dr.Smith..ohh and most importantly, look really cool to us mid 1960's kids!! It's more fun for me to take the whole thing at entertainment value like it was meant to be...because I would go insane lying awake at night trying to make sense out of the nonsensical!


----------



## gimijimi

*A Little Late to the Party*

Just heard from Steve (aka Culttvman) about the Moebius J2. Just placed my preorder for 2 kits. 

To the folks at Moebius (and Polar) a very big "Thank you". I have waited for this kit for over 40-years. Its been a long, long wait.

This one is a very nice set of compromises. Its got to be all about compromises. That Irwin Allen Time Space Theory of Spaceship Design (god bless him). A refinement of the Lunar Models and Icon hull shapes. Wonderful stuff, fellas. 18-inches is just about right.

A very nicely designed upper deck based on third season. I have the Lunar Models upper deck from their 16.5-inch J2. Learned so much about scratch-building from upping the quality on that. Choosing to base your upper deck on the third season was so wise. The upper deck changed starting changing with the unreleased first pilot.

The aftermarket opportunities are mind blowing. Figurines. Photo-etched panels. Accessories like force field projectors, hydroponic gardens, campsite utilities, lighting. Sweet.

HobbyEngineering provides some gearbox reduction motors (very small), for any of you thinking about a working astrogator and system effects.

Thanks again (as in Thank you, Thank you, Thank you).


----------



## j2man

I would like my landing gear to go up and down. I entered Wonderfest many years ago with my lunars Jupiter. I had it displayed in a shadow box made to look like the Derelict. The landing gear did go up and down on that kit using an oscilating fan motor. The control was manual so it wasn't featured as part of the model kit capabilities. I plan on scratch building this new Jupiter with gear and sliding main hatch. Yes the posibilities are endless.


----------



## toyroy

One of the things about the Jupiter 2 that I've always been captivated by, is its ability to manuever so gracefully against the pull of gravity. And to do it, without rockets or jets. OK, so it's not star drive, or a transporter. It's still really cool.

I was just thinking about Allen's bad experience with NASA. Apparently, whoever he talked to was locked into the ballistic model of propulsion, which requires serious atmospheric drag reduction, and consideration of an escape velocity. Now, both the Jupiter 2 and the _Star Trek_ Enterprise used drive technologies that were beyond their time. Somehow, Roddenberry connected with the right people, who helped to bring his tech into the realm of the theoretically imaginable. Unfortunately, Allen didn't. A lot of things have been said about Allen, but I have to wonder how different his legacy might be, if he'd gotten just a little more of the credence, and support, that Roddenberry got.


----------



## m jamieson

I don't think the technology had anything to do with Irwin's lack of credibility in the science world. His legacy was pretty much his own making as a childrens/monster of the week show producer.


----------



## JPhil123

toyroy said:


> One of the things about the Jupiter 2 that I've always been captivated by, is its ability to manuever so gracefully against the pull of gravity. And to do it, without rockets or jets. OK, so it's not star drive, or a transporter. It's still really cool.
> 
> The Jupiter 2 was/is very cool. Actually, it was not so evident in "The Reluctant Stowaway" episode, but the Jupiter 2 had rockets/jets. When John is trapped outside the ship with Maureen in "The Derelict," he tells Don something like "get back in the ship, start the rockets and get away" or similar words. Later, when they are safely aboard and detect the derelict spaceship, John tells Don "we'll need a boost" to get to the ship. I think it was much later in the series we saw rockets actually firing. So in addition to the photon drive or whatever it was from the fusion core, the ship had a rocket drive system for boosting/directional control.
> 
> Jim


----------



## oshkosh619

toyroy said:


> One of the things about the Jupiter 2 that I've always been captivated by, is its ability to manuever so gracefully against the pull of gravity. And to do it, without rockets or jets. OK, so it's not star drive, or a transporter. It's still really cool.
> 
> I was just thinking about Allen's bad experience with NASA. Apparently, whoever he talked to was locked into the ballistic model of propulsion, which requires serious atmospheric drag reduction, and consideration of an escape velocity. Now, both the Jupiter 2 and the _Star Trek_ Enterprise used drive technologies that were beyond their time. Somehow, Roddenberry connected with the right people, who helped to bring his tech into the realm of the theoretically imaginable. Unfortunately, Allen didn't. A lot of things have been said about Allen, but I have to wonder how different his legacy might be, if he'd gotten just a little more of the credence, and support, that Roddenberry got.


I had always fantasized it this way (giving Irwin the right to thumb his nose at the nay sayers and have the ship do what it it with such little space for the reactor, propulsion system, etc):

The J2 technology. specifically the powerplant, drive and cryo systems were not the result of scientific development and genius..... they were the result of decades (from 1947 until 1997) of reverse-engineering of certain "other-worldly" craft secreted in the caverns under Groom Lake. Engineers broke down the alien technology in total secrecy, then reproduced it using earthly materials and vendors, and it was deemed to have been developed by us, creating technology "bold in concept. brilliant in execution". As such, the design of the hull could bow to aesthetics instead of practicality, and the saucer shape was an Alpha Control inside joke and nod to it's actual lineage. Far fetched? I guess. But it works. :hat:


----------



## toyroy

JPhil123 said:


> When John is trapped outside the ship with Maureen in "The Derelict," he tells Don something like "get back in the ship, start the rockets and get away" or similar words...So in addition to the photon drive or whatever it was from the fusion core, the ship had a rocket drive system for boosting/directional control.


The ship did have rocket-style thrusters. Don't ask me why. But the Robinsons used the terms "rockets" or "rocket engines" to refer to clearly non-rocket types of propulsion. For example, in "Junkyard of Space", Don tells John he's hearing rocket engines. He's referring to the sound the Jupiter 2's engines make at lift-off.


----------



## Steve H

We should probably talk more about the upcoming model before the HAMMER falls on our heads, yes? 

Mentioned earlier "how will you build your kit?", there's a part of me that wants to use the interior to reproduce the set on the soundstage at Fox. Find some references, trick up the backs of the wall parts to look like set pieces (bracing, wiring, etc), maybe pull a couple of the 'wild' sections back to get the camera and crew in there, I dunno.

Hey, then I could use the hull shell as the 'exterior set' (altho of course it would look much better than the 'full size' in the show), fake up the minimal interior and have that nearby...


----------



## John P

Anybody working on campsite accessories? Force filed projector, hydroponic garden, laundry...


----------



## Richard Baker

I agree- the propultion tech of rotating lights underneath and the saucer shape, like the ship from Forbidden planet, was what I loved the most. Elegant and beyond our known technology. Being the Sixties and considered light family entertainment, the writers I think used terms more conventional (like rockets) to make the show more accessible to common viewrs. 
The J2 did show thrusters (vapor exiting through hidden slots in the hull) several times, but they seemed mostly for attitude control.


----------



## Seaview

10 to 15 years ago, Lunar Models made a LIS campsite Accessories set in the same scale as the Chariot and Space Pod that he produced; it consisted of the drilling rig, force field projector, washer/dryer/folder/packing machine, a hydroponic garden table, and that water purification thingamajig.
Unless somebody else comes up with these (like maybe Crow's Nest?), your best bet would be to watch that certain on-line auction place that everybody talks about.


----------



## JeffG

I always imagined the power core as some type of reactor and anti grav field generator-or something, and that the J2 still used hidden thrusters for minor flight adjustments. Maybe 'rocket' is just a generic term that's used. Like in ALIEN when the ship was about to self destruct and Parker told Ripley 'We ain't outta here in ten minutes we won't need no rocket to fly through space!'


----------



## toyroy

Richard Baker said:


> I agree- the propultion tech of rotating lights underneath and the saucer shape, like the ship from Forbidden planet, was what I loved the most. Elegant and beyond our known technology...


And I'd still love to know how they made that engine sound, used when the ship takes off and lands.


----------



## m jamieson

Anyone have the designs for the force-field generator or drill site so they can be scratch built?


----------



## starseeker2

There were actually two different laser drills. Both are easy to scratch just from watching the episodes. The force field is a little more complicated to figure out. I only believe in first season equipment. .


----------



## John P

Was the force field base a camera platform?


----------



## gareee

Hate to drag this back on topic, BUT....

Has is been confirmed the front control consoles will be cast in clear for lighting?

What about walls that have molded in electronic details with lighting on them? Will those be clear as well?

Sure would be nice to paint the walls up, scrape away the paint from the lit electronic details, and just stick an led behind each wall so their electronic details are lit up.


----------



## m jamieson

John P said:


> Was the force field base a camera platform?


Sure looks like it! And of course it would make sense budget wise, rather than build it from scratch.


----------



## m jamieson

...and thanks for the diagrams of the force field generator Starseeker 2!


----------



## g_xii

toyroy said:


> I think that was what Ron was saying...
> 
> I still want to know where the ladder and the hole in the ceiling went. Perhaps, that's where the controls for the bubble were?


It was for the cameraman!

--H


----------



## toyroy

gareee said:


> Hate to drag this back on topic, BUT....
> 
> Has is been confirmed the front control consoles will be cast in clear for lighting?
> 
> What about walls that have molded in electronic details with lighting on them? Will those be clear as well?...


And will the deck be located at the proper depth below the hull beltline? Otherwise, if the floor is at the beltline, the flight controls will be too low, and properly scaled figures will seem too tall.


----------



## toyroy

John P said:


> Anybody working on campsite accessories? Force filed projector, hydroponic garden, laundry...


Or a planetary backdrop, as was used on the actual set? Something to make your _Lost in Space_ diorama feel right at home.


----------



## Richard Baker

toyroy said:


> Or a planetary backdrop, as was used on the actual set? Something to make your _Lost in Space_ diorama feel right at home.


Styrofoam rocks!

.


----------



## toyroy

Richard Baker said:


> Styrofoam rocks!


But, how do you model _those_?


----------



## Krel

toyroy said:


> But, how do you model _those_?


Well, first you carve them out of some type of foam, then cast them in resin. 

David.


----------



## m jamieson

Go to any model railroading store and you can buy all the fake rock you could ever need..or go to a model railroading site on your computer and there will be a lot of articles on how to build your own rocks, cliffs and Trona Pinnacles!


----------



## toyroy

How about paper models of styrofoam rocks?


----------



## Richard Baker

m jamieson said:


> Go to any model railroading store and you can buy all the fake rock you could ever need..or go to a model railroading site on your computer and there will be a lot of articles on how to build your own rocks, cliffs and Trona Pinnacles!


The problem with that is that those rocks look real. To properly capture the feel of an Irwin Allen planet set you need rounded, fluffy, draped-over-plywood-looking-and sprayed-with-foam looking rocks.


----------



## gimijimi

All that hot rod art direction going on in the 60s. I also have wondered if all those art designers you see running around in their paint smeared bermuda shirts knew what great stuff they were coming up with back then?

My best friend and I were so eager for somebody like Aurora to come out with a Jupiter 2 model that we both started scratch-building at 12-years-old. I went after the Gemini 12 version, my best friend went after the full scale studio version.

As money got more plentiful, my first Jupiter 2 was the 16.5-inch Lunar Models ("Horror in a Box") version. Boy did I have to increase my hobby skills to put that creature together.

But that classic saucer shape. Its like some calling card.

Can you imagine if this Moebius kit had arrived in time for Christmas, say in 1966?


----------



## toyroy

I wonder if the Cyclopses manufactured those "rocks" specifically to scare away pesky aliens, without actually hurting them?


----------



## Seaview

:hat: I think this is yet another lifelong dream model come true, and cannot thank Frank and Co. enough; those guys are my heroes!
I hope that they very seriously re-consider the Spindrift someday, but until then, I am one happy modeller with Seaview, Chariot, Space Pod, Flying Sub and next, the builder-friendly "big" Jupiter II!!
WAY TO GO, MOEBIUS!!!! :thumbsup:


----------



## m jamieson

Richard Baker said:


> The problem with that is that those rocks look real. To properly capture the feel of an Irwin Allen planet set you need rounded, fluffy, draped-over-plywood-looking-and sprayed-with-foam looking rocks.


Your right!..skip the train store and carve up some styrofoam!


----------



## Ron Gross

gimijimi said:


> Can you imagine if this Moebius kit had arrived in time for Christmas, say in 1966?


For Christmas in 1966, I actually got a Remco LIS Roto Jet Gun, now valued at some ridiculous amount. I remember being able to choose between that and a Mattel LIS Switch 'N Go set, but I just couldn't deal with that styrofoam J2. Now the part I hate to admit: I still have it.


----------



## gimijimi

*Please add my name to the list*



MAX WEDGE said:


> Count me in:thumbsup:


I would also like to be added to a list of people that would really love to own a book on the subject.

David: Are you still offering your 1980s J2?

Thanks.

Jeff Lovejoy


----------



## gimijimi

Ron Gross said:


> If I'm not mistaken, the J2 in that photo was David Merriman's mini J2 offering that was featured in the then classified ads in Starlog. He actually did 4" renditions of other classic saucers, but the J2 was considered to have been the flagship of the line. It was through this ad that I met David in 1982, and only a few months later, I found myself working with him on a lighting circuit for his then planned 10" J2 release. Although he did build the 10" ship and wrote a related article for Scale Modeler, it was never officially released to the public.
> 
> The lighting circuit mentioned above is the same one featured on Cult, and also the one I wound up incorporating in my own prototype several years later.
> Ron G.


Interesting to hear you talk about David "back in the 80s". I sometimes forget how long David has been a (big) part of the hobby for. I am putting together one of David's Moebius RC Seaview conversions. It is a sweet thing. How do you properly thank somebody for helping you realize a childhood dream?

Jeff L.


----------



## gimijimi

Ron Gross said:


> For Christmas in 1966, I actually got a Remco LIS Roto Jet Gun, now valued at some ridiculous amount. I remember being able to choose between that and a Mattel LIS Switch 'N Go set, but I just couldn't deal with that styrofoam J2. Now the part I hate to admit: I still have it.


What would I say? (!). I would say (very) "Good for you, man." One of my most prized possessions was a nice letter I got from 20TH Century in 1965, from somebody from the TV show "Voyage to the Bottom of Sea," along with an (REAL) 8 x 10 black & white photograph of the 8-window Seaview, and a side view schematic of the submarine. I came home after my first semester at college to find that my (dear, sweet) mother had tossed everything. All my Aurora models. The whole thing. So, if you've managed to hang on to any of that stuff that's just wonderful in my book.


----------



## otto

Ron Gross said:


> For Christmas in 1966, I actually got a Remco LIS Roto Jet Gun, now valued at some ridiculous amount. I remember being able to choose between that and a Mattel LIS Switch 'N Go set, but I just couldn't deal with that styrofoam J2. Now the part I hate to admit: I still have it.


 Wow! I remember wanting the switch and go for my birthday, and getting the Roto jet gun instead. I think I cried! LOL...Wish I still had that gun. Looking back on the deal, Knowing what I know now, ( styrofoam ship) I probably got the better of the two toys LOL..


----------



## B-9

I remember how disappointed and angry I was when I got my styrofoam Switch 'n Go set in 1967-68. It looked great in the Sears catalog! The upper half was broken when I opened it up on X mas morning, so my father glued it with some horrible black glue. It looked nothing like the J2, more like two oversized pie plates. That was definitely one of my top 5 major lifetime disappointments which I still think about! The Lost In Space cartoon was also in the top 5.


----------



## Steve H

Ron Gross said:


> For Christmas in 1966, I actually got a Remco LIS Roto Jet Gun, now valued at some ridiculous amount. I remember being able to choose between that and a Mattel LIS Switch 'N Go set, but I just couldn't deal with that styrofoam J2. Now the part I hate to admit: I still have it.


Respectful point of order, sir.

Mattel made the Roto-Jet gun, and yes, I still have mine as well, very battered but mostly intact. :

I still don't understand why, with the license in their hand at the time Remco didn't repurpose that Monkey Division grenade pistol (used as the base for the laser pistol prop) into a true LIS laser gun. Maybe they were too busy getting them chromed for the Hamilton's Invaders toy line.

It's not, I'm sure, because they were concerned about making a 'realistic' toy gun like nowadays. It was a freakin' ARMS RACE back then and yes, I was a proud owner of many a plastic weapon. Remco, Mattel, Topper...*sigh*

Ah well.

As to the foam J2, it was...interesting. Given it had to house the Switch 'N Go Chariot (and I still have that too, but the motor part is gone) of course it was all goofed up, and the interior designed to have places to place those 'army man' style Robinsons...not good at all. But I loved it because that's all there was.

Saaay, maybe THAT is where PL got the idea for the 'park bench' pilot seats, huh?


----------



## MAX WEDGE

Ron Gross said:


> For Christmas in 1966, I actually got a Remco LIS Roto Jet Gun, now valued at some ridiculous amount. I remember being able to choose between that and a Mattel LIS Switch 'N Go set, but I just couldn't deal with that styrofoam J2. Now the part I hate to admit: I still have it.


 
New School meets Old School. My Son Carson is a Fan of the Movie Wally, and I thought I would show him the type of Enviromental Control Robot I had as a Kid:tongue:


----------



## toyroy

I didn't get into LiS until the third season, and I don't remember any LiS stuff, except the Aurora kits. I was one of those kids who wrote Aurora, begging for a Jupiter 2 model. Their reply was to send back my original letter, with a hand written note on it telling me to check my local hobby shop.

I was so embarassed, I threw it away in a different trash can, so my mother wouldn't find it in my trash. She found it even faster, of course. She was an elementary school teacher, not working at the time, but involved in my public schooling. We used to have the occasional art class. I think she arranged for some material about conic sections to be presented in one of those sessions. I've already mentioned the half-assed little shirt cardboard J2 which was the immediate result.

Years later, after college calculus classes, etc., I thought back to the conic section J2 stuff. I was diverting myself with that, as my mom died of cancer. I haven't been able to do any further J2 work since.


----------



## g_xii

B-9 said:


> I remember how disappointed and angry I was when I got my styrofoam Switch 'n Go set in 1967-68. It looked great in the Sears catalog! The upper half was broken when I opened it up on X mas morning, so my father glued it with some horrible black glue. It looked nothing like the J2, more like two oversized pie plates. That was definitely one of my top 5 major lifetime disappointments which I still think about! The Lost In Space cartoon was also in the top 5.


There is a lot about toy manufacturing that I've never understood. It's like, back then, they could put whatever they wanted on the boxes, and put some other completely different piece of crap _inside_ the box!

I think in 1991 or 1992, I got back into building models. I went looking for a Jupiter 2. I got a catalog from a place (JH GREEN?) and they had 3 Jupiter 2 models. So, I bought the mid range one. It came from Japan. Matsuduyo or something like that. It had a fairly close painting on the box of the J2, but what was inside the box looked NOTHING like the Jupiter 2! We spend a lot of time with Irwin Allen inconsistancies, but the toy manufacturers are much, much worse!

I remember a "star trek" ray gun I had as a child. It was cool (it had an interesting "color wheel" inside that would let you change the color of the beam that came out of it), but it was a lot more like the LIS pistol than a trek phaser! The only thing it had going for it was the starfleet logo on the side!

Back then, you just NEVER knew what you were gonna' get inside the box!

--H


----------



## toyroy

And what was the deal with the Johnny Lightning J2? Why were the porthole and hatch crammed against the viewport? Why all the lettering on the metal lower hull, rather than on the plastic fusion core, or landing gear? Talk about disappointment.


----------



## gimijimi

Seaview said:


> 10 to 15 years ago, Lunar Models made a LIS campsite Accessories set in the same scale as the Chariot and Space Pod that he produced; it consisted of the drilling rig, force field projector, washer/dryer/folder/packing machine, a hydroponic garden table, and that water purification thingamajig.
> Unless somebody else comes up with these (like maybe Crow's Nest?), your best bet would be to watch that certain on-line auction place that everybody talks about.


I still have the accessory set you are talking about. Lunar also offered three figurine sets - one with flight suits, one for the chariot, and one campsite (first season). I think that all of this was 1/35 scale.


----------



## Ron Gross

MAX WEDGE said:


> New School meets Old School. My Son Carson is a Fan of the Movie Wally, and I thought I would show him the type of Enviromental Control Robot I had as a Kid:tongue:


The Robot, Roto Jet Gun, and Switch 'N Go set were all offered the same year (1966), and all appeared in the same Sears Christmas catalog. So tell me, how many of you are planning to ask for a new Moebius J2 under the tree this year (literally), just so you can take a stab at reliving those magical moments from 43 years ago?


----------



## bert model maker

With ALL of the toy disappointments we had as kids, I bet we would love to have the chance to have our original toys back even as bad as some of them were at the time.


----------



## gareee

Ron Gross said:


> The Robot, Roto Jet Gun, and Switch 'N Go set were all offered the same year (1966), and all appeared in the same Sears Christmas catalog. So tell me, how many of you are planning to ask for a new Moebius J2 under the tree this year (literally), just so you can take a stab at reliving those magical moments from 43 years ago?


It really depends on if they can deliver for December and Christmas. If its released a mnonth before hand, I know I won't wait and see if it sells out, and I can't get one.


----------



## MAX WEDGE

Ron Gross said:


> The Robot, Roto Jet Gun, and Switch 'N Go set were all offered the same year (1966), and all appeared in the same Sears Christmas catalog. So tell me, how many of you are planning to ask for a new Moebius J2 under the tree this year (literally), just so you can take a stab at reliving those magical moments from 43 years ago?



I already put in my request to the Wife:thumbsup:


----------



## Steve H

model maker said:


> With ALL of the toy disappointments we had as kids, I bet we would love to have the chance to have our original toys back even as bad as some of them were at the time.


Not a doubt, not a question, not a moment's hesitation. 

Even tho I still have a surprising amount of stuff from my youth (or surprising to some I would guess  ) I want MORE, and in better shape. And lots of them. caselots. 

But you know what's funny? packaging was CRAPPY back then! Single color ink boxes with a full color picture glued to the front...

But so much excitement, until the nannystate busybodies insisted that boxes had to accurately portray realist play with the toy, then it was just boring pictures...hey, even as a 8 year old I KNEW that Major Matt Mason didn't really fly with his jetpack...


----------



## MAX WEDGE

Steve H said:


> ...hey, even as a 8 year old I KNEW that Major Matt Mason didn't really fly with his jetpack...





"What"! Do you know something I don't:jest:


----------



## spindrift

I disagree with you- I LOVE the Mattel boxes of the sixties- great graphics all around with UNIQUE illustrations on each end panel. The color art pasted on the front was the topper- wow!
Just must be my taste- boxes today just don't do it for me...
Gary:tongue:


----------



## bert model maker

I lost about 90% of my child hood things the week i moved away home in 1978. My step father in his ignorance tossed things out, thinking i didn't want them anymore and when i came back to retrieve my things, they were already picked up by the garbage man. I managed to take 1 box & 1 bag of my things that I still have and only had enough room in my car for what i did squeeze in. I was horrified when i looked into my now empty closet when i went back the next day to get the rest of my stuff. If only I didn't move out the day before trash pickup !


----------



## Tim Nolan

Are you kidding?! We had some great toys back then! I've had many of them pass back thru my hands over the years (I have been buying and selling vintage toys for 25 years) Let's see, the Remco Robot was a favorite for sure, even if he didn't do doodly squat. Major Matt Mason, his space station, the Crawler (awesome toy, tore up rugs and carpets!), my Batman utility belt! The Marx Johnny Express truck (have one sitting in my lab, it's HUGE!) The perenial favorite weapon of mass household destruction, the JOHHNY SEVEN O.M.A. RIFLE! (thats short for one man army!) That thing shot plastic bullets, launched rockets and grenades! A truly leathal toy gun and grail for toy collectors! Aaaahhh....the Vietnam era.....G.I. Joes of every size, shape and color with accessories to die for! Johnny and Jane West. Star Trek disc guns that could put an eye out in mere seconds! Those great Marx sets with cowboys and indians, knights, WW2....Yeh, we got screwed on the Lost in Space stuff I guess. I'd love to have that rifle. I've seen them at shows, but can never afford one and you just really don't see them any more! Back to topic.....


----------



## Steve H

spindrift said:


> I disagree with you- I LOVE the Mattel boxes of the sixties- great graphics all around with UNIQUE illustrations on each end panel. The color art pasted on the front was the topper- wow!
> Just must be my taste- boxes today just don't do it for me...
> Gary:tongue:


I don't disagree, with today's eyes and knowledge I can see the beauty of them, but they're clearly made for a simpler time, when a store could afford to have the MMM Space Station all by itself on a shelf. Nowadays that full color side would be hidden so they could stack two of them on the bottom shelf at Target.

That's one reason why I'm glad that Moebius is using a full color PAINTING on their new Jupiter 2 kit. It speaks of adventure and excitement!

It's just too bad...um..sorry...that these kits are so costly* compared to the kits that Aurora put out back in the stone age, they don't lend themselves to a nice P.O.P. display, a hanging sign and shelf talkers screaming "the fantasy worlds of Irwin Allen, brought to life by Moebius!" or some such.

*not knocking Moebi, but you have to admit that $70+ is a far, far cry from a $1.98 pricepoint...just reality I know.


----------



## john_trek

Well now, is $1.98 vs. $70 bucks a fair apples to apples comparison?

Based on an inflation calculator I found ( god bless Google) the inflation from 1965 to 2009 is around 579 percent. So that $1.98 in 1965 is really more like $13.44 in 2009. 

And the Aurora models were rather small. Now, if I take a look at the smaller models that Polar Lights was putting out of the NX-01 and NCC-1701, they were marketed for about 12 bucks if I recall correctly. In the same range as the Aurora kits corrected for inflation. 

The Moebius models are roughly twice the size of those old kits, which makes them actually 8 times larger ( twice as long, twice as wide, twice as deep ... 2 x 2 x 2 = 8). 

So.... 8 x 13.50 = 108 bucks ...... 

Based on my math, Moebius is priced just about right. 

Then again .... you can prove just about anything you want by manipulating numbers. Why should 8 times as much plastic be 8 times as expensive? Cause I said so, that's why. And what is Round 2 selling the NX-01 and 1701 for these days? I'm just not checking because it might not support my manipulation of the numbers. :tongue:


----------



## toyroy

Steve H said:


> ...(1960's Mattel toys are) clearly made for a simpler time, when a store could afford to have the MMM Space Station all by itself on a shelf. Nowadays that full color side would be hidden so they could stack two of them on the bottom shelf at Target...


No Steve, _this_ is a simpler time. The standard of living was much higher back then. High enough, that ordinary people could _afford_ the higher prices of small mom-and-pop toy stores.


----------



## teslabe

MAX WEDGE said:


> New School meets Old School. My Son Carson is a Fan of the Movie Wally, and I thought I would show him the type of Enviromental Control Robot I had as a Kid:tongue:


I also was a big fan of Wall-E, my B-9's are smaller though.....

Now, back on topic, I've got three J-2s on back order and I know that at least one will have the atomic clock in it. Some time back "Accurate Model",
had pictures of an interior they were working on for, I think, was an 18" J-2 they were going to offer.... And in the set was some great artwork for the atomic clock they were putting in it, did anyone download them????
They are no longer in their gallery......


----------



## Steve H

LOL! OK, I'm taking the beatdown for talking economics, fair enough!

toyroy, the mom and pop shops really weren't cheaper then, there was more competition, at least seems to me. warning, toy nerd ranting!

Back in the day, call it 1968 back when my downtown was actually alive, there was:

Three local department stores
Woolworths
Kresgee's
Greens ( a Woolworth style place, maybe a local thing)
Sears
a seasonal toy store (likely owned by one of the several jobbers that handled the accounts for the department stores)

and a trip to one of the three new malls gives me

Sears
Pennys
Wards
Circus World
Playworld (later Gelco)
Woolco
Turnstyle

Outer areas gives

Yankee
Atlantic Mills
Arlens (might be michigan specific chain)
KMart

And the local catalog store, Rogers Distributing.

Look at all that. LOOK at all that, all those options. Everybody trying to carry the toys that kids wanted.

I got my Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea toys at Sears. I got the Robot at Herpolshimers (dept. store), my Roto-jet gun at Wurzbergs (dept. store), my Switch 'N Go playset at Sears at the mall. My GI Joe stuff came from three, no, 4 other places (including the seasonal toy store), blah blah blah.

What is there now? Toys R Us, Walmart, Target.

Model kits? I won't bore anyone with a further list, suffice to say I could get them ANYWHERE, and did. Now? There's two hobby shops in town and they're mostly geared to card games and R/C.

And that's one of the reasons stuff costs so much. 

And John, I'm not saying the prices of the Moebius kits aren't FAIR, no question you get value for your money! But even adjusting for inflation, it's hard to get past the visceral reality of a over-$50 model. Good lord, I was building Tamiya tank kits in the '70s and I recall them being expensive but not $60 for an M 60 A1E2!


----------



## enterprise_fan

Seaview said:


> 10 to 15 years ago, Lunar Models made a LIS campsite Accessories set in the same scale as the Chariot and Space Pod that he produced; it consisted of the drilling rig, force field projector, washer/dryer/folder/packing machine, a hydroponic garden table, and that water purification thingamajig.
> Unless somebody else comes up with these (like maybe Crow's Nest?), your best bet would be to watch that certain on-line auction place that everybody talks about.


Since someone else was nice enough to post pictures of the force field projector, I though I would post the picture of the "water purification thingamajig", one of the drill heads and the atomic clock.


----------



## john_trek

Steve H said:


> ... even adjusting for inflation, it's hard to get past the visceral reality of a over-$50 model....


I hear you on that one. I remember a few years back gulping when the NX-01 Akiraprise showed up at 60 bucks. I'm starting to get used to the sticker shock, but even though I don't begrudge the Moebius prices on the Flying Sub or upcoming Jupiter, I'm a lot less likely to follow my old habit of buying an extra kit and stashing it away in the closet.


----------



## MAX WEDGE

Steve H said:


> *not knocking Moebi, but you have to admit that $70+ is a far, far cry from a $1.98 pricepoint...just reality I know.



If Aurora had spent the money and effort to produce a decent Kit in the Robot for example, they would have gotten more then the $1.98 that they sold them for. You get what you pay for, how many of you remember pricing out a Lunar 16.5 J-2 and interior? The Moebius Kit is a Hell of a bargain at a little under $100.00? I can't imagine Aurora trying to market the J-2, it would have been in-accurate and poorly designed, and we would still be waiting for someone to offer a decent J-2 43 later:tongue:


----------



## gimijimi

Steve H said:


> LOL! OK, I'm taking the beatdown for talking economics, fair enough!
> 
> toyroy, the mom and pop shops really weren't cheaper then, there was more competition, at least seems to me. warning, toy nerd ranting!
> 
> Back in the day, call it 1968 back when my downtown was actually alive, there was:
> 
> Three local department stores
> Woolworths
> Kresgee's
> Greens ( a Woolworth style place, maybe a local thing)
> Sears
> a seasonal toy store (likely owned by one of the several jobbers that handled the accounts for the department stores)
> 
> and a trip to one of the three new malls gives me
> 
> Sears
> Pennys
> Wards
> Circus World
> Playworld (later Gelco)
> Woolco
> Turnstyle
> 
> Outer areas gives
> 
> Yankee
> Atlantic Mills
> Arlens (might be michigan specific chain)
> KMart
> 
> And the local catalog store, Rogers Distributing.
> 
> Look at all that. LOOK at all that, all those options. Everybody trying to carry the toys that kids wanted.
> 
> I got my Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea toys at Sears. I got the Robot at Herpolshimers (dept. store), my Roto-jet gun at Wurzbergs (dept. store), my Switch 'N Go playset at Sears at the mall. My GI Joe stuff came from three, no, 4 other places (including the seasonal toy store), blah blah blah.
> 
> What is there now? Toys R Us, Walmart, Target.
> 
> Model kits? I won't bore anyone with a further list, suffice to say I could get them ANYWHERE, and did. Now? There's two hobby shops in town and they're mostly geared to card games and R/C.
> 
> And that's one of the reasons stuff costs so much.
> 
> And John, I'm not saying the prices of the Moebius kits aren't FAIR, no question you get value for your money! But even adjusting for inflation, it's hard to get past the visceral reality of a over-$50 model. Good lord, I was building Tamiya tank kits in the '70s and I recall them being expensive but not $60 for an M 60 A1E2!


Actually, it sounds like we have all been living the same economic life. The rate of the devaluation of the dollar from 1962 to today has been more like 1,500 percent. That's about right when the 1:350 scale Moebius Seaview set to come out this summer is priced at about $23 bucks. I bought my first Seaview in 1966 (whenever the year was that they first came out) at Woolworths with my own money for a buck-fifty. One of the happiest days of my childhood, and one of the longest walks home. If it hurts more to cough up the same amount of money today its because our incomes have remained the same for the past two decades, while the value of the dollar has continued its decline. If you don't believe me, fine. But we and the economy are in the same position we were back at the end of 60s - about to learn again that you can't have both guns and butter. Instead of just fighting one war back in the 60s (you remember Vietnam), we are fighting two wars, and being hastened to fight a third - at least until hyper inflation starts (maybe as they are saying as early as the 1st quarter of 2010). By that time - when you are paying $200 bucks for a model - you will have thought that the good people at Moebius were practically giving these wonderful creations away. Come on, you guys remember the 70s, don't you? When you didn't know what you had until it was gone?


----------



## JPhil123

MAX WEDGE said:


> If Aurora had spent the money and effort to produce a decent Kit in the Robot for example, they would have gotten more then the $1.98 that they sold them for. You get what you pay for, how many of you remember pricing out a Lunar 16.5 J-2 and interior? The Moebius Kit is a Hell of a bargain at a little under $100.00? I can't imagine Aurora trying to market the J-2, it would have been in-accurate and poorly designed, and and we would still be waiting for someone to offer a decent J-2 43 later:tongue:


Hello...

I always was disappointed there was no Aurora Jupiter 2. But, looking back 43 years, I wonder if the reason Aurora rejected it due to it being a "boring" design really had more to do with the fact that they felt lighting (fusion core, upper deck) would be needed, in their opinion, to bring the Jupiter 2 model to life. Lighting would have been no small task then. Probably the most talented builders at the time would have been the only ones that would have been able to build and properly light a Jupiter 2 model kit. Even lighting might be difficult for some of those very talented builders, given the size of electronic components available in the late 1960s.

Of course, there is always the chance that an Aurora Jupiter 2 might have been surprisingly good judging from the quality of the Flying Sub and the Spindrift that were also issued originally in the 1960s. Even a Jupiter 2 campsite or crash diorama would have been welcome.

Now, over 40 years later we are about to see a new Jupiter 2 model that I suspect will be beyond compare.

Regards,
Jim


----------



## Richard Baker

Prices for the Moebius kits are fairly in line with the WW2 armor & plane kits of similar quality at my LHS. I was buying a kit for my nephew to build (he is into [email protected] stuff right mow) and it had been a while since I had looked at those other than just doner kits for detailing. 
All the costs have gone up and what used to be considered sticker shock is now an average price.


----------



## John P

I miss my Johnny-Seven One Man Army and Texaco Fire Chief helmet.


----------



## Steve H

John P said:


> I miss my Johnny-Seven One Man Army and Texaco Fire Chief helmet.


John P, SWAT Firefighter!

Ah, those days. I have pictures of me with my James Bond attache case, all decked out in suit and hat and...man, we were just INSANE back then. 

I think somewhere, some long long time ago, someone managed to ask a top Aurora man why they didn't make the Jupiter 2 (it would have been roughly the size of the Spindrift, to fit in a similar box size) and I don't recall that answer, I just recall it seemed, odd. I think it had to do with lead time back then. Consider the Seaview, they did the 8 window version yet by the time it came to market the 2ed season had started and the Flying Sub was introduced, so they cobbled up that outline under the bow to kinda sorta imply that this kit was of the sub as seen on TV. Weeeeell, even MY young mind didn't buy that nonsense! 

Altho, when you think about it, they COULD have gotten closer with just two changes to the tooling- make the bow clear part look more like the 4 window nose (even tho it would be way wrong) and carve a flat space on the underside part under the bow.

So, I dunno, I'm geeked for the Moebi J2, with my fantasy from the '70s of a Tamiya-quality kit coming true. Don't tell anyone, but I'll probably run about the living room just holding the hull halves together making the 'stardrive' noise...


----------



## MAX WEDGE

Steve H said:


> John P, SWAT Firefighter!
> I think somewhere, some long long time ago, someone managed to ask a top Aurora man why they didn't make the Jupiter 2 (it would have been roughly the size of the Spindrift, to fit in a similar box size) and I don't recall that answer, I just recall it seemed, odd.



I thought it was because "Aurora" deemed the J-2 too simple a design? Never the less, these are the "GoodTimes" in model Kits.:thumbsup:


----------



## toyroy

John P said:


> I miss my Johnny-Seven One Man Army and Texaco Fire Chief helmet.


Talk about throwing gasoline on the fire...:dude:


----------



## bert model maker

John, I remember having the Johnny-Seven One Man Army but never got to have the texaco fire chief helmet.


----------



## Zorro

I'm no expert on the J-2 but I'm fairly savvy on the Aurora thing. The Aurora LIS kits came out in '67 and '68. That would be the two different Cyclops kits in '67 and then The Robot in 1968. Guess what other TV Sci-Fi kit Aurora put out in 1968? "The Invaders UFO"! So Aurora had the license for both "Lost In Space" and "The Invaders" pretty much simultaneously. There was really only one choice for a kit from "The Invaders" and that was the series' iconic UFO, or "Flying Saucer". The Jupiter 2 by any other name was also a "Flying Saucer". I'm guessing Aurora simply didn't think it was good business strategy to compete against itself by having two "Flying Saucers" on the market at the same time.


----------



## John P

Well, I wrote them and suggested it around that time. So they knew at least _*I*_ wanted one!


----------



## toyroy

It might be fun to build a would-be "Aurora" Jupiter 2- complete with sales display.


----------



## toyroy

John P said:


> Well, I wrote them and suggested it around that time...


Good to hear that I wasn't the _only_ one, in the write-in campaign!


----------



## Steve H

Zorro said:


> I'm no expert on the J-2 but I'm fairly savvy on the Aurora thing. The Aurora LIS kits came out in '67 and '68. That would be the two different Cyclops kits in '67 and then The Robot in 1968. Guess what other TV Sci-Fi kit Aurora put out in 1968? "The Invaders UFO"! So Aurora had the license for both "Lost In Space" and "The Invaders" pretty much simultaneously. There was really only one choice for a kit from "The Invaders" and that was the series' iconic UFO, or "Flying Saucer". The Jupiter 2 by any other name was also a "Flying Saucer". I'm guessing Aurora simply didn't think it was good business strategy to compete against itself by having two "Flying Saucers" on the market at the same time.


And '68 is when the show ended. So that also goes to my thinking about the lead time, because they had to make sure the show would be a hit and worth the investment in tooling and design costs.

Could be that when Aurora talked with the people at Fox they got the 'Space Family Robinson' presskit with the concept that the J2 was a wreck, nothing but a useful shelter and not the fantastic ship of adventure it turned out to be. 

But gosh, the Spindrift ended up being mostly static and nothing but a house...not that I would have wished that kit not made but boy, talk about backing the wrong horse... 

I wonder. We all know the history that AMT sold TONS of the USS Enterprise model, and sold it for years after Star Trek had gone off the air. If Aurora had made the Jupiter 2 kit, would it have had similar success? It's interesting to speculate.

(of course, given how the Seaview turned out, I would expect Aurora would have made a kit of the Gemini XII and incised a pod hatch on the bottom.  )

I just hope Moebius keeps this new Jupiter 2 in production and not just a one-run thing. I hate that. I hate thinking that if I don't pony up NOW NOW NOW I'll have resort to auctions and overpay for it. Kinda takes the fun out.


----------



## Ron Gross

toyroy said:


> It might be fun to build a would-be "Aurora" Jupiter 2- complete with sales display.


I sort of had that very concept in mind when I built my prototype in the '90's. I even calculated it to be in scale with the Aurora diorama, or at least my revised version. I am attaching two photos that I hoped would somewhat capture that "Aurora display" look. The background is a smaller print of an oil painting I did way back in college, and it still hangs in my living room today.


----------



## Zorro

Ron Gross said:


> I sort of had that very concept in mind when I built my prototype in the '90's. I even calculated it to be in scale with the Aurora diorama, or at least my revised version. I am attaching two photos that I hoped would somewhat capture that "Aurora display" look. The background is a smaller print of an oil painting I did way back in college, and it still hangs in my living room today.


 
Those pics look like they came right out of the 1968 Sears Wishbook! :thumbsup:


----------



## woof359

So did Aurora even have blue prints for a secer drawn up or did they just pass on the idea? they did have quite a few cool kits back then, affordable too. not sure any kid today has an allowance that wood cover the cost of a new Refit or the up coming Jupe


----------



## Zorro

woof359 said:


> So did Aurora even have blue prints for a secer drawn up or did they just pass on the idea? they did have quite a few cool kits back then, affordable too. not sure any kid today has an allowance that wood cover the cost of a new Refit or the up coming Jupe


The only extant "blueprint" for a proposed Aurora LIS kit that I know of is this one. The photo to the right indicates that they considered the Pod also. This is from the site http://www.toys-n-cars.com/aurora.htm


----------



## Steve H

Ron Gross said:


> I sort of had that very concept in mind when I built my prototype in the '90's. I even calculated it to be in scale with the Aurora diorama, or at least my revised version. I am attaching two photos that I hoped would somewhat capture that "Aurora display" look. The background is a smaller print of an oil painting I did way back in college, and it still hangs in my living room today.


Ahhh, ya beat me to it, Ron! I was going to say (showing my keen wit, don'tchaknow) that we had our Aurora Jupiter 2, only we called it Polar Lights. 

But diverting for a moment, I do wonder what they would have done. I keep coming back to their Flying Sub and Spindrift kits (which were fairly complex for the time) as a template.

So, you have to figure they'd want the same box size (for standardized lots) which gives us, what, about a 5 inch or so saucer? Making the kit somewhere in the 1/144 scale range? (I'm just pulling numbers out of the air, actual math correcting me welcome). Somehow that just seems too small. Then I recall that they DID do more deluxe kits. I still have this MONSTER B-25, I think it was 1/48 scale, assembled with screws. HUGE box, I think it was a massive $10 when I bought it. Anyway, I'm now thinking it would have been about HO scale (1/87, correct?), with only a flight deck interior. 3 part hull like the PL kit (lower, upper and 'crown' that you could take off to see the interior). Working airlock hatch. Landing gear an option, with the outline of the gear scribed into the hull (not indented like the PL kit) and mounting holes for the legs.

I would have assumed this to be a 1968 release but patterned from the '67 J2, so no pod hatch, but MAYBE a scribed line for the Chariot ramp.

(one of the modern aftermarket parts would be an etched brass template for cutting the pod hatch, plus interior detail walls)

This would have been a 'special gift' pricepoint, probably a whopping $6.99.

What do you think, sirs?


----------



## toyroy

Ron Gross said:


> I sort of had that very concept in mind when I built my prototype in the '90's...


So I see! :thumbsup:


Ron Gross said:


> ...I even calculated it to be in scale with the Aurora diorama...


I think your model is at the maximum extreme, sizewise, of what an Aurora Jupiter 2 might have been. Even still, I doubt Aurora would have had any compunction about splitting the hull sections, in order to fit a smaller box.


----------



## MAX WEDGE

Steve H said:


> I still have this MONSTER B-25, I think it was 1/48 scale, assembled with screws. HUGE box



I had that B-25 "Monster" as well, the scale was 1/32. The plane was originally a gas powered Plane that was re-issued as a "Screw" together Kit. I have long lost the plane, but still have the tires and wheels from it


----------



## Steve H

MAX WEDGE said:


> I had that B-25 "Monster" as well, the scale was 1/32. The plane was originally a gas powered Plane that was re-issued as a "Screw together Kit. I have long lost the plane, but still have the tires and wheels from it


That's right, that's RIGHT! I remember! I has ideas of a diorama for a local IPMS show of using that kit with some Tamiya jeeps and figures, but trying to come up with a base it would fit on AND I could transport defeated my 17 year old mind.

I didn't know it was re-purposed from a gas powered (I assume line control?) plane.


----------



## MAX WEDGE

Steve H said:


> That's right, that's RIGHT! I remember! I has ideas of a diorama for a local IPMS show of using that kit with some Tamiya jeeps and figures, but trying to come up with a base it would fit on AND I could transport defeated my 17 year old mind.
> I didn't know it was re-purposed from a gas powered (I assume line control?) plane.




Yep, it was a line control Gas powered Aircraft before it became a Screw together kit. I remember it was an "H" Model because it had the 75 mm Cannon in the nose.


----------



## fastlap

*thanks Mobieus*

I spend most of my time on the Slot Cars forum, but lurk here all the time. I don't think I have even looked at the other forum since this announcement came out. I also spent many a night in front of the TV watching the show unfold. I was 10 years old in '65, and also did the pie plate, paper plate thing making my own J2. I have two unbuilt PL Jupiters in the box. I got about halfway through fitting all the pieces on one, sanding the hull halves to fit for a sharper edge, ordered the Sky Hook seats, and fusion lighting (yellow lights), etc. Now this!!!!!

Thanks Mobieus!!! I have already ordered one through Steve I's site. I can't wait for this winter to come.


----------



## Steve H

MAX WEDGE said:


> Yep, it was a line control Gas powered Aircraft before it became a Screw together kit. I remember it was an "H" Model because it had the 75 mm Cannon in the nose.


Yep, solid nose, not a bomber's greenhouse.

I have to give credit to those long-forgotten engineers and tool cutters, I don't recall ANYTHING with that kit that was an obvious, lazy repurpose, like mysterious holes in the side (for the line control) or big hinges on the tail. Thinking of it, I think only the very robust landing gear was 'factory' for the flying version.

Now THAT would be a kit to revamp and re-release, what with so many companies jumping on the 'OMG HUGE' kit market. OTOH, bad timing for that, wut?


----------



## toyroy

woof359 said:


> ...(Aurora) did have quite a few cool kits back then, affordable too. not sure any kid today has an allowance that wood cover the cost of a new Refit or the up coming Jupe


Kids today don't care about those. But maybe, just maybe, they'll go for the _Battlestar Galactica_ stuff.


----------



## Y3a

BUT.... Did any of you film your models? 

My mom had a Kodak 8mm film camera with a 3 lens turret. We did a Jupiter 2 in cardboard and slid it down a length of fishing filiment. The next year we did a 3 roller with about 1/4 of the stuff being crude SPFX shots. My friends little brother was the alien, with cardboard and band-aid pointed ears(skin color matching) and squirt gun as raygun. A newly plowed and bulldozed barren field was the alien planet. Ahhhh, the great summers we had.


----------



## djnick66

MAX WEDGE said:


> Yep, it was a line control Gas powered Aircraft before it became a Screw together kit. I remember it was an "H" Model because it had the 75 mm Cannon in the nose.


Actually the kit is the G version not the H. The H was a gun nosed version of the J. The G and H are visually similar.


----------



## MAX WEDGE

djnick66 said:


> Actually the kit is the G version not the H. The H was a gun nosed version of the J. The G and H are visually similar.


 
The "G" was a converted "C" with a short solid nose running two 50's and the M-4 cannon. The "H" ran two additional nose mounted 50's, a newer light weight 75 Cannon. The "H" was also the first version to run the side mounted "Gun Pods". The Aurora B-25 Kit is based on the B-25 H "Dog Daze" that is currently at the New England Air Museum. Ok I will get back to topic regarding the Moebius J-2??? :tongue:


----------



## toyroy

Y3a said:


> BUT.... Did any of you film your models?...


Might still be fun. How much are cyclops suit rentals, these days?


----------



## trekkist

Filmed? No. But I frisbee'd many a paper-plate J-II through the flames of my grandparents' outdoor oil can trash burner...after scratchbuilding interiors with (as I recall) both decks, mind you.


----------



## otto

I still think this project should be scraped! Only 64 pages of comments..Doesnt appear to be much intrest in this kit...LOL


----------



## Ron Gross

otto said:


> I still think this project should be scraped! Only 64 pages of comments..Doesnt appear to be much intrest in this kit...LOL


Add in another 40 for the first thread (consolidated J2 messages).

Add in another eight if you consider the thread started by Dar in the Science Fiction Modeling area (spawned by this thread).

Yes, I think the interest is there...


----------



## otto

Ron , I think we all have the J2 madness! Moebius has picked some great subject matter, dats fer sure. But This may end up being the biggest seller of all. I'm just amazed at all the discussion going on. This is bigger than big frankie! And Big Frankie was BIG!


----------



## m jamieson

Who is Big Frankie..wasn't he in the Godfather? lol


----------



## John P

Not the J2, but a guy I knew told me he made a UFO movie in 16mm when he was a teenager. This guy was a science wiz - for the crash scene he mixed his own explosives, built a 6-foot flying saucer, and Lydeckered it into the ground. He told me it left a 30-foot wide crater in his parents' field.

Makes us firecraker-users seem like losers.


----------



## toyroy

^With kids like that, who needs war?


----------



## bert model maker

Must have been some kinda explosion ! wonder what he told his dad when he saw the crater


----------



## Paulbo

"No, really, it was a Flying Saucer! Look, I caught it on film!"


----------



## Bobj812

Y3a said:


> BUT.... Did any of you film your models?


Well, not a J2 model. The summer of 1977 (hmm, what could have been the catalyst, I wonder...) my cousin and I built a futuristic looking city (well, it was _supposed_ to look like that) out of boxes and whatever. We also cobbled together various models to make different looking ships (I believe the back end of a Pan Am space clipper ended up being merged with something, and the back end of Spindrift merged with the long rack of a Eagle transport and the nacelles of Romulan Bird of Prey. Plus a repainted Flying Sub was in there along with modified Major Matt mason toys. We took all of 'em out to the desert dunes of Borrego Springs (where they had filmed the movie "Damnation Alley" the year before -- I have a post about that in a Landmaster thread) on about the hottest day of the year and made a little movie about a ship attacking the city. A ship from the city rises to the defense, they crash and burn. The End. We had grander plans, but it was just too hot. I'm not sure if the movie is still around, but I had some black and white pics we took. But I'm probably off topic here enough as it is to post 'em, or to write about the time I lit of a model rocket engine in the house to film it...with my mom's permission.


----------



## B-9

When I was in Jr. high I made a Jupiter-2 from two "Invaders UFO" model kits with a 5 cent gum machine plastic bubble on top and some kind of disk below for a fusion core. I had that thing for years. I bent over a nail and somehow got it through the bubble on top. It was sailed it down a long length of stretched fishing line (through the bent nail) from a tree to the ground at a local sandbank. It looked so horrible bouncing and swaying back and forth. I filmed it on Super-8 and may still have it in a box somewhere. I showed it to the film workshop class and was pretty much laughed out of the room and told by the instructor that I was "wasting my time with that space crap". Ahhh, memories...


----------



## toyroy

B-9 said:


> When I was in Jr. high I made a Jupiter-2 from two "Invaders UFO" model kits with a 5 cent gum machine plastic bubble on top and some kind of disk below for a fusion core...


I'd love to see that. The model- not necessarily the movie. It's hard for me to imagine a J2 from _any_ number of _Invaders_ kits.


----------



## B-9

I had to think about this as it was about 37 years ago. I chopped the top off both Invaders UFO model halves and glued them together. I took the heat shield from a Gemini spacecraft model and that became the upper roof. I used a rubber sanding disk as the lower part which had a more shallow slope. It was pretty rough as I recall. Someone who saw it said, "That spaceship needs a shave." I never forgot that. It is LONG gone.


----------



## Lloyd Collins

Just to rock the boat, but as this thread is titled, "Details of the Moebius Jupiter 2 Model", when are more details coming?


----------



## Dave Metzner

What more do you want?
As we told everyone the pics that have been posted are the tooling mock-up - There is nothing else to photograph at this time - Gary has posted photos of everything , he and I have tried to answer every pertinent question.

Until we get the first test shot there's not much more for us to tell you.....and after we have it there probably won't be any great big differences to show you...since the first test shot's going to look an awfully lot like the tooling master!

The way this works is kinda like hurry up and wait - we hurry to give China material to develop the tooling model - then we wait for them to make the tooling model
China sends the tooling model and we hurry to tell them what to change and send it back to them - then we wait for the first test shot
China sends the first test shot then we hurry up to make comments on it for changes that need to be made 
Then we wait for the second test shot and so - on until we have a finished product..

Right now we're waiting..for a first test shot to be done... nothing I can do about it - it's just the way this deal works...

SOOOOO I guess that you guys are just gonna have to wait too!


----------



## toyroy

I think I mentioned once before a Jupiter 2 ashtray I made in sixth grade art class. It was hollow, and the viewport was where my father's cigar was supposed to go. The glazing came out sort of an avocado green color. I think it still exists; if so, someday I'll post a picture of it.


----------



## gareee

Well, I did ask how much of it will be cast in clear plactic, so we can easily light it, but it was buried in all the nostalgia posts.


----------



## Dave Metzner

Nostalgia posts??? Whatever do you mean!? Are you suggesting that the posts about everybodies Christmas presents in 1965 are off topic? Are you suggesting that the Texaco Fire chief's helmet or the Buck Rogers ray gun are somehow unrelated to the details of the Moebius Jupirter 2 kit ??? Gee whiz, I hardly even noticed!

I could have sworn that I answered this question some where back about 900 posts ago!

Any way, here you go!

The freezing tubes - floors of freezing tubes- floor of elevator - wall panels behind freezing tubes - three main pilots control panels - the circuit blocks (to left of main airlock door as you walk in) -windows in various doors - Main windows - top bubble - astrogator bubble. - windows of fusion core..........all clear parts.....

Dave


----------



## gareee

Hey I t_ried to steer things back on topic.. LOL!_

_Hmmm... the front control consoles... not clear? (pouts)_

_I'm thinking though that the tops could probably just be dremelled out, and a clear part could be put on top of them with decal sheet perhaps, or maybe brass console top replacement might look better... but I'll have to try to do something inexpensive, because I just refuse to buy $30 aftermarket kit additions._

_Sounds like I might not complain about lack of clear parts much this time around.. LOL!_

_But I might just for old time's sake.. _


----------



## Paulbo

gareee said:


> _Hmmm... the front control consoles... not clear? (pouts)_





Dave Metzner said:


> three main pilots control panels


----------



## falcondesigns

What!no bathrooms in clear!!! I'm so bummed!!!


----------



## Dave Metzner

No clear crapper!


----------



## falcondesigns

I needed a laugh,thanks Dave!


----------



## m jamieson

Now you know what was really in those canisters Dr.Smith was always venting out the air-lock!


----------



## GordonMitchell

Dave Metzner said:


> No clear crapper!


I've never seen a clear one?......but then I led a sheltered life or so the wife thinks.....lol,
Gordon


----------



## B-9

At the risk of going way off topic (again):
http://www.toxel.com/tech/2009/05/27/transparent-public-toilets-from-switzerland/


----------



## John P

B-9 said:


> At the risk of going way off topic (again):
> http://www.toxel.com/tech/2009/05/27/transparent-public-toilets-from-switzerland/


I've had nachtmares like that! :freak:


----------



## GordonMitchell

B-9 said:


> At the risk of going way off topic (again):
> http://www.toxel.com/tech/2009/05/27/transparent-public-toilets-from-switzerland/


Thanks B-9.I've seen it all now,I can sleep better at night know this:lol:


----------



## m jamieson

GordonMitchell said:


> Thanks B-9.I've seen it all now,I can sleep better at night know this:lol:


Yes, but that stool was only a sample!


----------



## Y3a

OK, so back on topic. I'm gonna make ONE of my 3 Jupiter 2 models into a "best I can Do" model of the SPFX model INSIDE. To that end I'll be making the gear wells like the Hero has as well as the cockpit area and even down to the Pully wheels, that "A" frame that ToyRoy correctly identified as the pivot point for the "hydraulic rams that lowered and raised the gear (even though...in space wouldn't work too well due to fluid leaking).

I am looking into either cast parts in Alumilite, or parts fabricated like Henry Prentiss' Superb Launch Gantry. The gear will look like the Hero gear, not the Full Size set version provided in the kit. I dunno if I will offer any kind of kit, or even a "How I did it" at this point. 18" diameter is very good for a radio controlled moel, or even a wire controlled one where the power for the gear is from the support wires. I'll be using model airplane control cable to support the model (which I'm also using with great success on my 4 foot model) but I can use K&S Metals single steel wire as well for the Moebius Jupiter 2. 

I hope some of you modelers will think out a completely passive (non-powered) string puppet version of the landing gear.


----------



## B-9

Has anyone thought of making a "mechanical" rotating fusion core with actual spinning lights like the original hero? I'd think it would fit easier into the 18 inch J-2 than it would the smaller Polar Lights version.


----------



## Y3a

yep! I have the Quicktime video in my photos. its EASY to make. I made a prototype for the PL model back in when that model came out. 

its about page 6 or 7 on MY photos.


----------



## gareee

Problem I see with mechanical, is mechaincs all break down over time. A chasing led solution should work many many more hours without failure.


----------



## Lee Staton

Are all you J-2 fans aware of what was probably the design inspiration for the Robinsons' single family home flying saucer? There is a home in Los Angeles called the Chemosphere House that has some of the same contours and even a dome on top! It was built in 1960--plenty of time to be seen by Irwin Allen or the Lost in Space art team. Its base may have inspired the launch pad, too.

If you've never seen it, here are two links to photos:
http://latimes.image2.trb.com/lanews/media/photo/2008-04/37637471.jpg
http://anthonymele.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/3106_63690ea01e1357718d782e7610537aab.jpg

Just searching for Chemosphere House will bring lots of articles and images. I think that if you combine this design idea with Forbidden Planet, you've seen the inspirational parents for the J-2 art directors' very memorable creation that has kept us interested for 40 years.

In all the threads I've read I've never seen this mentioned. If it is old news to you guys, please excuse the momentary diversion.

Looking again at this house makes me look forward to the new Moebius kit even more!

Lee


----------



## B-9

Y3a said:


> yep! I have the Quicktime video in my photos. its EASY to make. I made a prototype for the PL model back in when that model came out.


Yeah, that's great! It looks more like the original J-2 than the chaser lights.


----------



## Ron Gross

Lee Staton said:


> In all the threads I've read I've never seen this mentioned. If it is old news to you guys, please excuse the momentary diversion.
> 
> Looking again at this house makes me look forward to the new Moebius kit even more!
> 
> Lee


Well, I guess I've done about as much J2 research as anyone, and I did not know about this possible connection. Thanks, Lee, for sharing this very interesting insight.


----------



## toyroy

Lee Staton said:


> Are all you J-2 fans aware of what was probably the design inspiration for the Robinsons' single family home flying saucer? There is a home in Los Angeles called the Chemosphere House...


Believe it or not, I've seen this house brought up as a possible design influence before. Can't say whether it was here on HobbyTalk, or the Yahoo! Lost in Space Props group, or where. I didn't see the resemblance before, and I still don't.


----------



## toyroy

Y3a said:


> ...I hope some of you modelers will think out a completely passive (non-powered) string puppet version of the landing gear.


That's do-able.


----------



## falcondesigns

toyroy said:


> Believe it or not, I've seen this house brought up as a possible design influence before. Can't say whether it was here on HobbyTalk, or the Yahoo! Lost in Space Props group, or where. I didn't see the resemblance before, and I still don't.


no imagination...........


----------



## m jamieson

Wasn't that the house in Body Double?


----------



## Prince of Styrene II

m jamieson said:


> Yes, but that stool was only a sample!


D'oh! 

Hmph. 100 pages. Cool.

Can't wait for the kit. Thanks for your work, Dave & co. :thumbsup:


----------



## StarshipClass

toyroy said:


> Believe it or not, I've seen this house brought up as a possible design influence before. Can't say whether it was here on HobbyTalk, or the Yahoo! Lost in Space Props group, or where. I didn't see the resemblance before, and I still don't.


I can see the resemblance but it seems the windows of the house are a bit closer in their shape to the flying sub windshield.


----------



## enterprise_fan

I know that it's a biy late in the game to mention this but here goes. I was looking over the pictures in post #65 and saw something odd. Did anyone else notice in the over head shot of the command level that one of the landing gear legs is located directly below the door to the Pod? Also if you look at the underside picture of the J2 the Pod bay door is to the right of the leg putting the Pod behind the two far left freexing tubes. I thought the Pod was stored directly behind the door between the elevator and the freezing tubes.


----------



## john_trek

Lee Staton said:


> Are all you J-2 fans aware of what was probably the design inspiration for the Robinsons' single family home flying saucer? There is a home in Los Angeles called the Chemosphere House that has some of the same contours and even a dome on top!


Well, yeah, it looks a little like the Jupiter 2, but it looks a heck of a lot more like something else, and I'm amazed no one has mentioned it yet. 

Do the following lyrics ring any bells out there? Come on guys, the average age of people posting here has got to be about 50. 

Meet George Jetson. 
His boy Elroy.
Daughter Judy.
Jane, his wife..........


----------



## toyroy

To me, the house resembles a lemon meringue pie, held up like an umbrella. So I get the pie pan connection, at least...


----------



## Lou Dalmaso

so close....


----------



## Lou Dalmaso

and there is the 1000th post !

Imagine how many there will be once the kit is actually available:wave:


----------



## Dave Metzner

John Trek,
The Pictures in Post #65 are correct - yes one of the Gear legs is probably directly below the door leading to the "Pod Bay" which is on the main /upper level..
That's the way the interior set as seen on the show fits into the exterior...The shooting set does not necessarily fit into the hull in a completely logical manner - (logic is a foreign concept to most Irwin Allen science fantasy TV shows)
The other thing to consider is that the door to the Pod Bay on the main level does not explain where the Pod Bay really is supposed to be... as the pod bay doors on the bottom of the hull are under the lower level (second or third level - take your choice) and there is no explanation as to how you get from the door on the upper level to the Pod bay which logically opens to the exterior of the hull under the lower level.......We never see the other side of the Pod Bay door on the Shooting set door so there could be a hall way behind the walls of the shooting set leading to a hidden stairway - Who knows???
Are you completely confused yet??? 

There was no real effort made to justify that which was shown inside Jupiter 2 to what was shown on the outside of the ship...not to mention that the inside changes from season to season and in some cases from episode to episode and the were are several different shooting minatures that do not match one-another.. Welcome to the world of Irwin Allen....

BTW Lou, I can imagine how many posts there will be after the kit is actually available - I just hope that a higher percentage are on topic than in this thread to date!

Dave


----------



## gareee

FWIW, Dave, I've respected you guys and tried to keep almost all of mine on topic.


----------



## Dave Metzner

Garee - No problem there........
Dave


----------



## bert model maker

Thank you Dave, I am just very happy to be getting a very nice & accurate model of the Jupiter 2 done the right way by the right company, and will be the BEST of the BEST ! Thank you dave for all of the answers & information you have provided
Bert
Model Maker


----------



## Gary K

Dave Metzner said:


> John Trek,
> The Pictures in Post #65 are correct - yes one of the Gear legs is probably directly below the door leading to the "Pod Bay" which is on the main /upper level..
> That's the way the interior set as seen on the show fits into the exterior...The shooting set does not necessarily fit into the hull in a completely logical manner - (logic is a foreign concept to most Irwin Allen science fantasy TV shows)


To elaborate on what Dave said, Irwin Allen operated in a non-Euclidian universe, in which the usual rules of time and space did not apply; however, the Moebius model exists in OUR universe, so it MUST conform to the rules of the space-time continuum.

On the pod-dropper Jupiter 2 model, a half-scale opening was cut into the bottom of the saucer, and a pair of Pod bay doors could slide apart, unrestricted by any landing gear. 

When I was designing the Moebius J2, I had to decide where to put the Space Pod hatch. The starboard side of the hull was already spoken for, since that's where the studio plans placed the Chariot ramp. That left the port side. I drew the half-scale Pod hatch the proper distance from the edge of the ship, then rotated the hatch as far aft as I could, in an attempt to get the hatch as close as possible to the location of the Pod on the studio set. 

The closest corner of the hatch ended up being a scale 12" from the rear landing gear. Obviously, a pair of solid doors could not slide apart, as they did on the pod-dropper model, since one door would hit the landing gear. To remedy this, I did a bit of re-engineering of the doors, and added several smaller seams on either side of the main seam between the two doors. The additional seams suggest that the Pod bay doors rolled open like garage doors (or the doors on the Flying Sub hangar).

So there you have it: a half-sized hatch that doesn't line up with the location of the Space Pod in the studio set. Just another day in the world of Irwin Allen!

Gary


----------



## bert model maker

Irwin Allen sure had a wonderful imagination !


----------



## Steve H

Yeah, that's the thing that makes the whole Space Pod bay such a massive headache. If you assume the Pod fits snugly in the bay (and you have to allow headroom for the radar antenna on top!), logically that puts the hatch midway between decks!

Assume a larger J2, your hatch opens up on the lower level, and you've lost at least one of the staterooms. Been a long time but I seem to recall they always entered from the flight deck...

So, if one wants to show the Pod bay in detail AND have it line up with the bottom hatch, you're just going to have to really screw around with the interior, no two ways around it.

Ya know, memory is a funny thing. Looking over those proto pics back in post #65, it strikes me how CRAMPED the flight deck looks. It's probably a factor of scale and proportion and all the solid parts that will be clear in the actual kit.


----------



## john_trek

Ah, who cares if you loose a stateroom? The Jupiter II was a little short on them anyway. 

So.... we know that John and Maureen shared a cabin, it was implied on at least one occasion that perhaps Judy and Penny shared a cabin, Will seems to have his own cabin, Dr Smith is shown repeatedly to have his own cabin, and Don had to sleep somewhere and he doesn't seem to be rooming with Will or Smith. So this brings us up to at least 5 cabins. 

However, there were only three of them in the set for the lower deck of the Jupiter II, with a "laundry room" slipped in between two of them. 

* * * 

But, if we must go back on topic occasionally, since we are getting a smaller scale Seaview this year, I'll put in my vote for a smaller scale Jupiter II in 2010 or 2011. Not only would it allow me to play around with crash scene dioramas more easily, but I would like having a simple build to look forward to for a change. At a smaller size, say a 9 inch saucer, I could just work on making a nice smooth exterior and some clean landing gear, and not spend hours and hours and hours detailing the interior.


----------



## Richard Baker

That sounds like a good solution to me- and having a hallway between the Pod BAy Door and the Bod Bay is also a good plan (I know there won't be one in the kit but it does fix the 'mental map' of the interior. That hallway is like the Flying Sub's Stern Airlock- creative engineering to adjust Irwin Allen's set comperssions.

This kit is sounding better all the time.

.


----------



## enterprise_fan

Dave, 
Not wanting to correct you but it was me not John Trek that asked about the pod bay door. :wave:

I was reluctant to post because this model had to have been well planned and researched before it was announced. I knew that if I posted a comment about the placement of the pod bay doors it would get people talking about the model again.


----------



## Steve H

Richard Baker said:


> That sounds like a good solution to me- and having a hallway between the Pod BAy Door and the Bod Bay is also a good plan (I know there won't be one in the kit but it does fix the 'mental map' of the interior. That hallway is like the Flying Sub's Stern Airlock- creative engineering to adjust Irwin Allen's set comperssions.
> 
> This kit is sounding better all the time.
> 
> .


You know, it's funny, but once Moebius had put out their Flying Sub, and the interesting solution of the 's' hallway between hatches, I had an odd thought.

What if the FS interior was asymmetrical? We EXPECT things to be all nice and square and even because that's a basic wiring in us all, but what if that bunk wall is just not even, but more angled or something?

And then, bringing it to the Jupiter 2, what if the flight deck was more oval or some such?

Ahh, never mind. it is what it is


----------



## Gemini1999

I was just thinking about the problems that stemmed from the sudden 3rd season existence of the Pod, Pod Bay and the descent "tube" for the Pod to exit the ship. When you consider the upper level layout, which put the Pod Bay access door between the glide tube elevator and the freezing tubes and then consider the lower level layout starting with the glide tube "stop" on the lower deck, right next to it on the starboard side is the hatch to the "engine room", and after that, the staterooms.

When you don't take into consideration all the impracticalities involved, the J2 is a very cool ship with all it's technical goodies packed into one spacegoing saucer. I know that those involved had a tough time trying to reconcile all of the incongruous details and did their best. When it came to the Chariot ramp, I would have just let that detail go out the window as its the most impractical idea of all. The idea of a vehicle the size of the Chariot actually driving up inside the J2 just makes me shake my head. It's hard enough trying to make the Pod fit inside the J2 as it is, because when you put someone outside the Pod, in terms of scale, the relative size and layout of the J2 doesn't allow for it. Not unless, the J2 has some "Tardis-like" qualities about it.

The idea of the J2 and all the accompanying hardware is fun in concept, but a nightmare in practical execution.

Bryan


----------



## toyroy

Gary K said:


> ...On the pod-dropper Jupiter 2 model, a half-scale opening was cut into the bottom of the saucer, and a pair of Pod bay doors could slide apart, unrestricted by any landing gear...


Half scale? 


Gary K said:


> ...I had to decide where to put the Space Pod hatch. The starboard side of the hull was already spoken for, since that's where the studio plans placed the Chariot ramp...


If you like the problem the space pod bay presents, you oughta _love_ the problem of the chariot garage!


----------



## Richard Baker

toyroy said:


> Half scale?
> 
> If you like the problem the space pod bay presents, you oughta _love_ the problem of the chariot garage!


The Chariot ramp is a relatively new thing to me. When I was growing up I always thought the Chariot was stored in pieces and assembled when they nneded it. The way the top framing and other units are designed it seemed to a modular vehicle. It could even be used as an open flatbed utility thing.
.


----------



## toyroy

Gemini1999 said:


> ...When it came to the Chariot ramp, I would have just let that detail go out the window as its the most impractical idea of all. The idea of a vehicle the size of the Chariot actually driving up inside the J2 just makes me shake my head...


The ramp idea would've been considered, and rejected, after the first pilot was made, and before the show concept was finalized. It would be interesting to know what kind of interior plans they were working on, during that time.


----------



## Gary K

toyroy said:


> Half scale?
> 
> If you like the problem the space pod bay presents, you oughta _love_ the problem of the chariot garage!


Yes, half-scale. The opening for the Space Pod hatch on the 4 foot J2 model was a little over 6" square. The J2 miniature was 1/12 scale, which would make the Pod bay opening a little over 6 feet square. A tight fit for the Pod, whose hull alone (not including landing gear & thrusters) was 9.5 feet wide. If they put a 1/12 scale Pod hatch on the 1/12 scale J2 model, it would be over 1/4 the diameter of the saucer!

As has been already mentioned on this thread, the Chariot ramp was blueprinted & installed on the 3-legged full-size prop (and supposedly on the 10 foot J2 miniature, too). It's outline is visible in "Visit to a Hostile Planet", and James Darren drove his sports car down the ramp in the pilot for "Man from the 25th Century". No real "garage" was constructed. It appears they merely set up some flats to hide the interior structure of the saucer. Like Richard Baker, I assumed that the canopy of the Chariot was broken down for storage. I may be wrong, but in one of the early episodes, didn't they make some mention of assembling the Chariot? (Hey, it's late & I don't have time to look it up).

So which is more impossible - the Chariot ramp or Space Pod hatch? It's a toss-up!

Gary


----------



## Steve H

Richard Baker said:


> The Chariot ramp is a relatively new thing to me. When I was growing up I always thought the Chariot was stored in pieces and assembled when they nneded it. The way the top framing and other units are designed it seemed to a modular vehicle. It could even be used as an open flatbed utility thing.
> .


yeah, that's pretty much my take, that the drive train, power unit and controls are ready to go, then you assemble the cabin around it. Kinda confused about the whole 'Solar panel power' thing because damn, that's got to have INSANE efficient conversion for such a tiny amount of area!

It will be interesting if Moebius does what I think they'll do and release at least the Chariot in scale to the J2. Seeing some conceptual builds of just how the Chariot hatch and bay works will be alot of fun!


----------



## bert model maker

yes, they did say lets assemble the chariot. How did they Ever get it out of the main hatch because crash landed, thats the only way they could get the parts outside. Wonder how they fit up the elevator or ladder & hole in the floor ? gotta love Irwin Allen.


----------



## toyroy

Gary K said:


> Yes, half-scale...If they put a 1/12 scale Pod hatch on the 1/12 scale J2 model, it would be over 1/4 the diameter of the saucer!...


All of us who were around at the time immediately recognized the space pod's similarity to the Apollo lunar landing module. To me, it never made sense, since the J2 was so easily able to land and take off. Plus(when not sabotaged by a murderous Dr. Smith,) they had "parajets" for largely the same purpose. Which is by way of saying that I'm ignoring the pod- as I pretty much always have.


Gary K said:


> ...in one of the early episodes, didn't they make some mention of assembling the Chariot?...


It was mentioned after their first crash landing, in "Island in the Sky".


Gary K said:


> ...So which is more impossible - the Chariot ramp or Space Pod hatch?


Since a built chariot chassis would not be able to get out of anything but such a ramp- which, presumably, was not available after a crash landing, one is left with the necessity of removing a more-completely broken down chariot through the main deck hatch. This would have been the same, in the case of the Gemini XII- which had no landing gear, ramp, or lower level. And, still consistent with what we knew at the time(well, a few years later,) as the tiny lunar lander was able to transport a more fully broken down lunar rover.


----------



## toyroy

toyroy said:


> The ramp idea would've been considered, and rejected, after the first pilot was made, and before the show concept was finalized. It would be interesting to know what kind of interior plans they were working on, during that time.





Gary K said:


> ...the Chariot ramp was blueprinted & installed on the 3-legged full-size prop...It's outline is visible in "Visit to a Hostile Planet"...


That's what I was referring to, in my statement. Sometimes, you see artifacts of discarded ideas. We know(from the studio blueprints) a chariot ramp was built into the mock-up, but at the earliest opportunity in the series, the idea is clearly changed. No mention is ever made of such a ramp in the show. What we see in "...Hostile Planet" could be the fuel dump, or missile hatch, for all we know. 


Gary K said:


> ...James Darren drove his red sports car down the ramp in the pilot for "Man from the 25th Century". No real "garage" was constructed...


Would "carport"(or chariot-port) work better for you?


----------



## Captain Han Solo

Hmmmnnn...

While I can understand the excitement generated by the news of this Kit's eventual release, the constant conjecture and philosphy on what it may or may not have is, to me any way, pointless until we get the kit in hand:freak:

Except for the details shared by Gary, Ron Gross and a few members here who actually know what they are talking about, you have to sift through page upon page of.....nonsense!

Don't mean to rant gentlemen, but a lot of the same guys who complain they don't have enough time to build a kit are the ones with all the posts!LOL!!

In case some of you guys didn't know, there are several Moebius kits available now! The Seaview, Flying Sub, Space Pod, Chariot to name a few.. consider.*BUILDING *Some of these fine kits, and before you know it, the Jupiter Two will be here..

Have a great Holiday weekend Gentlemen:wave:


----------



## trekkist

The location of the pod-dropper's half-scale pod hatch (as shown in the blueprints in The Saucer Fleet) is interesting, in that it's _just _far enough from the ship's center (vertical axis) to allow room for the upper deck...IF one doubles the ship's diameter to render the pod hatch full scale! Allen may have played fast and loose with Euclidian space, but whoever located the pod hatch apparently gave it some thought. 

An upscaled J-2 of 96 ft diameter (or 104, per doubling Moebius' 52') is the result. This is of course yields a "cathedral-like" upper deck, even worse than that shown by Gary Kerr on p. 33 of this thread. 

A rough comparison of the pod-dropper's hatch location to Gary's last compromise drawing (62' diameter, with the upper window sill nearly at floor level, and floor level well above the point of greatest diameter) gives me the impression a 72-odd foot diameter would work relatively well. The lower deck's "rooms" (quarters and mess hall) might have to be a step up, with lower ceilings...and of course, the windows and airlock door would be at the ends of "halls" some 15 ft in length, not quite as Irwin ordered. 

Such a diameter would render the Polar Lights saucer of 1/72 scale, the upcoming Moebius, 1/48. The Johnny Lightning pod, incidentally, scales to 1/76...less than 2 mm shy of 1/72 in body height. If anyone's interested.


----------



## Richard Baker

Gary K said:


> As has been already mentioned on this thread, the Chariot ramp was blueprinted & installed on the 3-legged full-size prop (and supposedly on the 10 foot J2 miniature, too).
> Gary


Does anybody have a frame grab of these?
I have some episodes but 'A Visit to a Hostile Planet' is not among them.

.


----------



## Steve244

Seems perfectly feasible.










What?


----------



## Gemini1999

Steve244 said:


> Seems perfectly feasible.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What?


It is if you have a nearly perfectly hollow ship...!

Looking inside, that car would have to be parked in the center of the ship, or backed up even further to be stowed so you can close that ramp. There's also no visible "ceiling" indicating a separation of the two levels either.

As the folks that blueprinted and conceived the upcoming model of the J2, the ramp seems to take up the space where the Pod descent hatch would be if it was actually where we expect it to be (or is it????)

Having a ramp might be a fine idea, but driving a vehicle inside the J2 given the size of what the full sized version of the J2 is meant to represent, clearly shows that it would be impossible except in terms of "Irwin Allen-verse" terms.

Like I said, I think that it's a cool idea, but very impractical in execution.

When all is said and done, I still love the ship, I will love the model and I can't wait to get one - I know that the design team did their level best to incorporate and reconcile as many known details as they could.

Bryan


----------



## Gemini1999

Richard Baker said:


> Does anybody have a frame grab of these?
> I have some episodes but 'A Visit to a Hostile Planet' is not among them.
> 
> .


I found one online - you can see the line of the ramp hatch behind Guy Williams in this photo:


----------



## fastlap

*feasible?*

Look at the pic above. Don't picture the Chariot driving up the ramp inside of the Jupiter. Picture the lower assembled section of the Chariot backed or pulled *onto* the ramp, then the ramp lifting the low profile of the disassembled Chariot into the lower saucer section. We all agree the stage prop is a smaller diameter than the flying ship, you can still see the Chariot would be mostly below mid-ship level when retracted into the underbelly sitting on and angle. Make sense? Yeah, it's not suppose to, but it gives me ideas if Moebius makes a scale Chariot to the J2.


----------



## Gemini1999

Here's a nice pic of the Pod hatch after opening:










In the upper right of the photo, you can see the porthole that would be right next to the main hatch. Given the location of the Pod hatch and the location of the Chariot ramp, it looks like they are in the same quarter of the ship, but on two different models.

It's an interesting world that Irwin Allen lived in, eh?

Bryan


----------



## Richard Baker

Thanks for the Images!

.


----------



## trekkist

If we didn't "know" the location of the first floor's podbay entrance door, could we be sure the porthole seen during pod scenes is the one next to the main hatch? Which is to say, given we've never (have we?) seen the _other _side of the Jupiter, couldn't there be a port there?

(I realize photos of the models reveal no such port...but I'm simply talking of what's seen on screen).


----------



## Zorro

Gemini1999 said:


> It's an interesting world that Irwin Allen lived in, eh?
> 
> Bryan


Sort of depends on your perspective. Obviously, to _you_ guys, it was an _obsessively fascinating _world that Irwin Allen lived in. _Sheesh!_


----------



## RSN

Gemini1999 said:


> Here's a nice pic of the Pod hatch after opening:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the upper right of the photo, you can see the porthole that would be right next to the main hatch. Given the location of the Pod hatch and the location of the Chariot ramp, it looks like they are in the same quarter of the ship, but on two different models.
> 
> It's an interesting world that Irwin Allen lived in, eh?
> 
> Bryan


Funny how, as a kid, I always thought that porthole was the rear one in the utility room. It made sense to me, but alas no porthole existed in any miniature. In reality, the Pod hatch was just cut out on the wrong side of center! I like my childhood memory more!!!!!


----------



## Cajjunwolfman

IMHO. Everybody's opinion in this post is valid, whether it agrees with any opinion I may have or not. I enjoy this thread, it is all consolidated to one thread. I have the freedom to read or not read. So bring on the Post's!


----------



## Gemini1999

RSN said:


> Funny how, as a kid, I always thought that porthole was the rear one in the utility room. It made sense to me, but alas no porthole existed in any miniature. In reality, the Pod hatch was just cut out on the wrong side of center! I like my childhood memory more!!!!!


You could be right - I pretty much thought the same thing as a child also. It's just that with all the details that are known about the filming models, I don't recall seeing a porthole on the backside of the model. If there was one, the Pod hatch appears to be pretty close to where it should be - landing gear notwithstanding.

Bryan


----------



## bert model maker

toyroy said:


> All of us who were around at the time immediately recognized the space pod's similarity to the Apollo lunar landing module. To me, it never made sense, since the J2 was so easily able to land and take off. Plus(when not sabotaged by a murderous Dr. Smith,) they had "parajets" for largely the same purpose. Which is by way of saying that I'm ignoring the pod- as I pretty much always have.
> 
> It was mentioned after their first crash landing, in "Island in the Sky".
> 
> Since a built chariot chassis would not be able to get out of anything but such a ramp- which, presumably, was not available after a crash landing, one is left with the necessity of removing a more-completely broken down chariot through the main deck hatch. This would have been the same, in the case of the Gemini XII- which had no landing gear, ramp, or lower level. And, still consistent with what we knew at the time(well, a few years later,) as the tiny lunar lander was able to transport a more fully broken down lunar rover.


Using the parajets must have made for a very hot re-entry !


----------



## mrdean

*Almost on topic!*

I will be building 2 Moebius Jupiter 2's. :woohoo:

The first will be complete and glued together with the gear up and in flight or on a launch pad. It will include lights and all of the visible areas as detailed as possible.

The second will be complete with Chariot and Space Pod with the gear down. It will have the ramp and pod door active and have the Chariot with the canopy in easy to fit together pieces when stowed. If the upper level has to be worked a bit...COOL! It will also have lights and have a removable hull with as much detail scratched to give it a cut-away look and include thrusters and other elements that we know must have been there but never saw. I plan on building it as if it were real and functional and not trying to match TV reality which we know is suspect.

I will be using my PL Jupiter 2s for other diorama efforts that will take advantage of the smaller size and try and match the bigger brothers in detail.

I cannot wait until the kit and all the extra detail after market is ready to be played with!!

Mark Dean


----------



## mrdean

toyroy said:


> ...
> Since a built chariot chassis would not be able to get out of anything but such a ramp- which, presumably, was not available after a crash landing, one is left with the necessity of removing a more-completely broken down chariot through the main deck hatch. This would have been the same, in the case of the Gemini XII- which had no landing gear, ramp, or lower level. And, still consistent with what we knew at the time(well, a few years later,) as the tiny lunar lander was able to transport a more fully broken down lunar rover.


One answer might be the Jupiter 2 crashed into a hill side with the ramp area partially exposed. Before assembly the ramp was dug out and the chariot could exit from teh lower level garage. 

That is how I plan on building a diorama of first season crash site.

Mark Dean

Mark D


----------



## Dave Metzner

Excuse me - as a long time builder of aircraft models - I'm from a modeling world that deals in REAL objects that actualy work in the REAL world. I understand how real airplanes are built and why the fly. I have several hundred books on various aircraft including actual technical manuals. I've spent hours wondering around in museums looking at REAL airplanes that Really fly - I've actually sat in REAL aircraft that I've modeled...
I hate to rain on your parade guys, but trust me on this one, THERE NEVER WAS A REAL Jupiter 2! All that was REAL was a set on a sound stage. 
I can see Jupiter 2 as pure fantasy, it was never intended to work - It's based on technology that does not exist. Jupiter 2 does not work in many different ways - it never worked - and never will work.
The interior as represented in the TV series changes from one season to another - much of the interior is hidden from view during the various episodes many areas are never shown and never explained - why does it matter?? 
Why does it matter how you get to the space Pod bay from the upper deck - why wouldn't you simply take the elevator down to the Pod bay??

The Chariot fitting in the Jupiter 2 is another non working concept - Unless the Chariot would be stored within Jupiter 2 in fairly small pieces -So now, we expect two men (Since Smith is absolutely useless) to drag the components of Chariot out of Jupiter 2 and QUICLY assemble it anytime it's needed. 
There can be no conjecture as to the size of chariot or the technology that makes it work -that vehicle won't just diassemble in an hour or two using hand tools and with just two guys doing the work -(sorry guys but that notion is just plain ridiculous!)..(Maybe Maureen is an ace Nascar pit crew person in her spare time??)
BTW it won't fit on the ramp in place of the sports car in the photo!
Any of you guys ever build a real car?? Ever try to do it without proper tools?? ever try to pick up an engine or transmission???
Come on -- give me a break..Chariot was parked outside the sound stage - it never fit into Jupiter 2 ...

Let's take Jupiter 2 and Lost In Space for what it really was - a fun piece of fantasy nothing more than that. I hope that the new Jupiter 2 kit will make you all happy when it actually gets here...


Dave


----------



## BlackbirdCD

The Jupiter 2 isn't real? Are you sure?


----------



## Dave Metzner

Some where in the next life Irwin Allen is rolling around on the floor laughing his ass off at some of these conversations about how Jupiter 2 really worked!


----------



## mrdean

Dave Metzner said:


> ...BTW it won't fit on the ramp in place of the sports car in the photo!
> Any of you guys ever build a real car?? Ever try to do it without proper tools?? ever try to pick up an engine or transmission???
> Come on -- give me a break..Chariot was parked outside the sound stage - it never fit into Jupiter 2 ...
> 
> Let's take Jupiter 2 and Lost In Space for what it really was - a fun piece of fantasy nothing more than that. I hope that the new Jupiter 2 kit will make you all happy when it actually gets here...
> Dave


Actually I have rebuilt 2 cars. My first was a 1968 VW Bug and I did that with a set of metric socket wrenches. It had been in a huricane and I broke it down to several piles and it not only worked but it is still running. I gave it to a cousin who still has it. My second was a 1968 Ford Mustang that had been sitting in a barn for 3 years. That one I took the engine and transmission out using a rack and pully system that I built out of wood and block and tackel borrowed from a ship yard. I sold it 3 years later for 3 times what I paid for it. The only help I had was a paint shop. It is also still running as my brother in law is the one who bought it. The VW engine was way more easier than the V-8!!!

I will make it look real but in the same fantasy world that LIS and Star Trek are from. :devil:

Mark Dean


----------



## Dave Metzner

Mark,
How quickly did you build that Mustang - a few days, a few weeks a few months???
Remember that two guys on Jupiter 2 j ust put that Chariot together and take it apart in a few hours....apparently by hand without sophisticated equipment ( maybe there is a fully equipped garage hidden in Jupiter 2 somewhere??)

Fantasy is one thing - reality another...I can hear Irwin Allen giggling now!

Dave


----------



## mrdean

VW was 3 weeks and Mustang was functional in 2 days. It needed a new battery and the Wards electronic ignition ripped out. I spent years restoring it.
Keep in mind that time was also not real. Assemble the chariot could be days not after a commercial!
Mark Dean


----------



## Dave Metzner

Mark
With all due respect. Switching the ignition and a battery on a Mustang is not quite the same as assembling a snow cat from it's variuos components with a couple socket set sets and set of Craftsman screwdrivers! Now if you'd started with a pile of dissassembled Mustang parts and built a car in a couple days I'd start to take Lost in Space seriously!
Irwin is still giggling! Along with that giant carrot and a few other goofy characters from various episodes!
I'm sorry but alot of Lost in Space is still like a Bugs Bunny cartoon -"I Musta made a wrong turn at Albuquerque"!
Both are entertaining, but it's pretty tough to accept either one as being grounded in reality...


Dave


----------



## john_trek

Hmmm.... now I'm begining to question a lot of things about the IAU (Irwin Allen Universe). 

Upon reflection it does seem a little odd that so many interesting things happened within a few minutes walk from the crash site. Giant plants, all sorts of alien artifacts, crashed spacecraft, deliberately landed spacecraft, and giant cyclops all seemed to be located within a couple miles of the Jupiter 2. And for some reason, no matter how long they lived on that planet, they seemed to keep tripping over interesting things only a short distance away that they had failed to notice earlier. 

Speaking of the cyclops... where did they go after the fourth episode? Did they go south for the winter? Oh, and then come back for the summer about 2 days later? And then go back South for the next winter a week later? Say...... how did the first cycle from winter to summer happen in only a few days, but then not repeat again for the entire next year? And how is it that .....?

Oh never mind.


----------



## mrdean

I never said I took it seriously, just that the hardware should look like it could work!

I rebuilt my V-8 in 4 days. But I did have to borrow a few tools!!

Mark Dean


----------



## Richard Baker

I know the Jupiter 2 cannot actually function as shown in the series, but I see no reason not to build the kit so that it appears that it all functioned. I like to imagine what the unseen hardware looks like beneath the hull coverings and this kit will have some great potential like that.
I have a cutaway kit of the Yamoto from Star Balzers. It is probably one of the most unfeasible ships out there, but I am painting it and adding deatil like it actually worked. There is something appealing to me of a cartoon vessel in bright colors with grease/rust stains and worn paint showing the metal underneath.
I know Irwin Allen is laughing watching us attempt to retrofit mechanical functions into his fantasy world, but when his shows were first broadcast the ships in the different series were real to me. I was never bothered about the second deck or how the stern hatch of the Flying SUb fit into the hull geometry. It simply was not important to me.


----------



## flyingfrets

mrdean said:


> I never said I took it seriously, just that the hardware should look like it could work!
> Mark Dean


Why? It didn't 40 years ago, why should it now? It looked reasonable to the mind of a 5 - 10 year old, and it's that wonderment that kits like this one bring back (to me anyway).


----------



## Steve H

Dave Metzner said:


> Excuse me - as a long time builder of aircraft models - I'm from a modeling world that deals in REAL objects that actualy work in the REAL world. I understand how real airplanes are built and why the fly. I have several hundred books on various aircraft including actual technical manuals. I've spent hours wondering around in museums looking at REAL airplanes that Really fly - I've actually sat in REAL aircraft that I've modeled...
> I hate to rain on your parade guys, but trust me on this one, THERE NEVER WAS A REAL Jupiter 2! All that was REAL was a set on a sound stage.
> I can see Jupiter 2 as pure fantasy, it was never intended to work - It's based on technology that does not exist. Jupiter 2 does not work in many different ways - it never worked - and never will work.
> The interior as represented in the TV series changes from one season to another - much of the interior is hidden from view during the various episodes many areas are never shown and never explained - why does it matter??
> Why does it matter how you get to the space Pod bay from the upper deck - why wouldn't you simply take the elevator down to the Pod bay??
> 
> The Chariot fitting in the Jupiter 2 is another non working concept - Unless the Chariot would be stored within Jupiter 2 in fairly small pieces -So now, we expect two men (Since Smith is absolutely useless) to drag the components of Chariot out of Jupiter 2 and QUICLY assemble it anytime it's needed.
> There can be no conjecture as to the size of chariot or the technology that makes it work -that vehicle won't just diassemble in an hour or two using hand tools and with just two guys doing the work -(sorry guys but that notion is just plain ridiculous!)..(Maybe Maureen is an ace Nascar pit crew person in her spare time??)
> BTW it won't fit on the ramp in place of the sports car in the photo!
> Any of you guys ever build a real car?? Ever try to do it without proper tools?? ever try to pick up an engine or transmission???
> Come on -- give me a break..Chariot was parked outside the sound stage - it never fit into Jupiter 2 ...
> 
> Let's take Jupiter 2 and Lost In Space for what it really was - a fun piece of fantasy nothing more than that. I hope that the new Jupiter 2 kit will make you all happy when it actually gets here...
> 
> 
> Dave



That's all true, Dave, 100% true.

Cold, harsh reality.

The Chariot wasn't solar powered, it had a cranky engine (probably gas, as diesel is troublesome in cold weather) and probably leaked oil all over the place (but not as bad as the Batmobile!).

The 'full size' J2 exterior was actually probably 3/4 scale, made of wood and probably had to be gone over several times a year to get the wasp nests out of the corners.

There's no doubt the space suits were super stinky after a day of filming.

So what?

When you built plastic aircraft kits in your youth (as I have to assume you did, because brother, you do sound like you have the flying bug  ), did you 'fly' them around the house? Maybe crash them into the ground to re-enact something from a TV show or movie you saw? Why did you do that?

Imagination. 

Yes, that was when you were a kid, and haw haw look at the 30+ old guys talking about a make-believe spaceship as if it was as real as a F-100 Super Saber.

Imagination. Creativity. Joy.

We, well, OK, I'll just speak for me, I WANT to try and put a touch of 'realism' to this children's fantasy spaceship. In the world if imagination, the Jupiter 2 IS real, in all it's impossible, conflicting glory. Why not? There's a lot of people who have built every possible variation of the F-100 (including, most likely, the very Sci-fi Zero Length Launch testbeds), there's been dozens of ways to duplicate the bare metal finish, every possible scale. Not many folks will take those skills and apply them to the Jupiter 2 (and that skill set isn't in my toolbox, I'm an armor guy by trade!  ) but those that do, there's gonna be some AMAZING kits finished out there.

I mean, heck, why even bother MAKING the Jupiter 2? It's an old show, nobody cares about it, there's no 'heat' of a remake bubbling along, it's just nostalgia that anybody even gives a rip.

Nostalgia is a powerful thing. When people have hard times, nostalgia can pull you thru. So, yeah, the Pod and the Chariot and the lower level, just totally impossible. (I do ignore the 3rd level, I can't go THAT far!).

I'll still try and figure out how you COULD get something to work within the fixed limits of the ship. Just for fun. Just to stretch my imagination. just to wallow in nostalgia a little.


----------



## drmcoy

Dave Metzner said:


> I hate to rain on your parade guys, but trust me on this one, THERE NEVER WAS A REAL Jupiter 2! All that was REAL was a set on a sound stage. I can see Jupiter 2 as pure fantasy, it was never intended to work - It's based on technology that does not exist. Jupiter 2 does not work in many different ways - it never worked - and never will work.
> Dave


I watched Lost In Space many times, and the Jupiter II DID work. I saw it with my own eyes. 

Oh yeah, one more thing -- I'm rubber and you're glue, and everything mean you say about Lost In Space not being real will bounce off me and stick to you!


----------



## JPhil123

Richard Baker said:


> I know the Jupiter 2 cannot actually function as shown in the series, but I see no reason not to build the kit so that it appears that it all functioned. I like to imagine what the unseen hardware looks like beneath the hull coverings and this kit will have some great potential like that.
> I have a cutaway kit of the Yamoto from Star Balzers. It is probably one of the most unfeasible ships out there, but I am painting it and adding deatil like it actually worked. There is something appealing to me of a cartoon vessel in bright colors with grease/rust stains and worn paint showing the metal underneath.
> I know Irwin Allen is laughing watching us attempt to retrofit mechanical functions into his fantasy world, but when his shows were first broadcast the ships in the different series were real to me. I was never bothered about the second deck or how the stern hatch of the Flying SUb fit into the hull geometry. It simply was not important to me.


Hello...

You are right about the appeal of bright colors. The Spindrift is an example of a vehicle being very appealing in style and color, yet not really being functional. On the other hand, one also never knows how things should really look. Many UFOs appear saucer shaped. If some UFOs are one day proven to be of extraterrestrial origin, it might turn out that vehicles like the fictional Jupiter 2 are not so far fetched at all. I once read that saucer shaped craft are believed by some scientists to be actually ideal for reaching astounding speeds, primarily due to the reduced points of stress. And, who is too say that one day in the distant future a saucer shaped craft propelled by a familiar ring of rotating lights generating who knows what might be build by people from earth. The one disappointment with the Jupiter 2, and other IA creations, is with respect to size and dimensions. It is one thing to imagine and accept the fantastic devices that are not really seen on camera. It is another to not have the room for them. But, in the case of the Jupiter 2, it is the overall design that is most appealing.

Regards,
Jim


----------



## Dave Metzner

Nothing wrong with nostalgia, I have nostalgia for 5 cent candy bars and Saturday afternoon 25 cent matinee's...In the fall of 1965 I was starting my freshman year at college so my nostalgia is probably a little different from some of yours!!!
I think that Jupiter 2 is a fun piece of fantasy It doesn't have to make sense or work to be fun....I know that it was never a cohesive design just a prop for a TV series (just like the giant Carrot!)
I don't concern myself about how one would get from one unseen portion of the ship (the space beyond the Pod Bay door on the main level) to another unseen portion of the ship, (The Pod Bay)the excact size shape and location of which nobody can be sure of.
What's more I don't particularly care that one of the landing gear is under the pod bay door on the main level.

I have wrestled with how stuff fits inside Jupiter 2 before - I was the guy who worked with Ron Gross to do all of the product development on the Polar Lights Jupiter 2. 
If you really want to get confused - try to figure out where everything fits after you stuff the second deck out of the Alpha control manual into the Jupiter 2 hull -now, not only has the space for the Pod Bay and Chariot bay dissappeared but there is no place to put any of the landing gear wells either- (BTW forget the third level)
Oh and here's another cute little detail - if you'll remember, there are doors at the top of each gear leg for entry into the ship (These are apparently doors that are tall enough for full grown adult males to get in and out of) are they at the third level??? or at the second level - just where are those THREE door ways inside the ship.
And no, you really can't cheat by making the hull 100 ft in diameter or for that matter much larger than 52 ft or the main floor won't come close to fitting properly - and from all the existing pics of the inside of Jupiter 2 we KNOW the dimensions of the main level floor within a foot or so..If you use a big hull then the control consoled are waaaaayyyyy to far from the front windows!

You see I've been there and done that.....I don't need my imagination I have pictures and drawings..
I think that I have a fair understanding of the limitations of Jupiter 2
I don't think I've said anything mean about Jupiter 2 I've had to wrestle with the design more than most because it's been my JOB to get a kit in the box not just once, but now TWICE so you guys can exercise your imaginations. 

Dave


----------



## JPhil123

Dave Metzner said:


> I don't think I've said anything mean about Jupiter 2 I've had to wrestle with the design more than most because it's been my JOB to get a kit in the box not just once, but now TWICE so you guys can exercise your imaginations.
> 
> Dave


Hi Again,
You have not said anything I would take as being mean about the Jupiter 2. You have brought up observations that are actually some of the fantasy and fun elements that hold my own interest in the Jupiter 2. I will give Irwin Allen's team credit by recognizing the fact that they at least 'appeared' to deal with storage space issues when the ship was originally conceived in the form of the Gemini XII. It clearly had one main deck, with possible storage volume for such items as the chariot, weather station gear, and other equipment in the lower region of the ship (but that is assuming much I admit), And, of course, where everyone slept was a big unanswered question (maybe on cots in the control room..lol). I may be giving too much credit as well, since the plan was to abandon the G12 and roam around the planet having adventures, although I can't imagine Irwin Allen not reusing the Gemini set.

Whatever, I know I sure look forward to the new Jupiter 2...

Regards,
Jim


----------



## Tim Nolan

Man, this threads worse than a bunch of Trekkies with some Starship manuals at a convention! LMAO! 

Your all right you know. No, none of it's truly feasible. It WAS a great TV show when we were kids. Watch it much lately? Kinda' sucks. (but, for nostalgia's sake, and of course reference material, childhood memories of simple days gone by, we still love it...) 

I love Star Wars, and Next Generation, probably because of LIS. I don't own any Trek models, I do love looking at them. Same with Star Wars. Only recently, with the big sub, did I actually build something other than a custom car or bike. I've got cabinets full of them, and I enjoyed building all of them. But, I have to tell you, when I saw that giant Seaview, some switch got flipped. I had a truly enjoyable time building it, and I love the thing. 

I dug out the PL J2 kit I bought in when it came out, and decided it was next on the list. I'm glad I waited all those years, because I wouldn't have had the availability of all these great aftermarket parts! And now, we have the Chariot, the Pod, and a super-sized J2 in the wings. It's been a good year for LIS fans! I have to agree with whoever said we will probably see some incredible finished builds after the new J2 comes out. I've seen some incredible work stuffed in the Polar Lights kit, I can't imagine what some of you brainiacs will do! I also agree with whoever said, YOU GUYS SHOULD BE SPENDING MORE TIME BUILDING, less time bantering over the logistics of all this. (there isn't any----welcome to Irworld!) 

Imagination is a great thing. We wouldn't have ANY of this if it weren't for the vivid imagination of Allen, Roddenbury, Lucas, Spielberg, and the likes, PLUS our OWN imaginations! Run wild. Have a great time. Talk about it with others. Hey, there is another J2 thread I believe over in Sci-Fi where you can ramble till' your hearts content! (No offense intended to Dave) Now, I'm going back to painting Drew's figures for my Chariot. (In my spare time....11:58 pm..) :wave:


----------



## Steve H

If I might, Dave, it sounds almost like you have a huge emotional investment in the J2 and are maybe a little...possessive, and protective of all that work you've done. 

I'm not ragging, I'm just trying to enjoy a kit I want to build, and a newfound sense of community of people who are just as passionate.

Altho say something interesting about scaling the J2 to a 100 ft ship and you can't fit the interior properly. Well, maybe that comes from assuming the floorplan MUST fit in the ship edge to edge. I wonder what happens if you 'cheat' the interior, only worry about matching the controls to the window and the airlock, and just let the rest outside of the 'seen' space be empty, cargo holds, the Chariot bay, blah blah.

As I said, we're used to thinking that things must be symmetrical, that astrogator MUST be in the center because it APPEARS to be lifted up to the dome. Well, what if? What if it's just lifted up to clear the floorspace (for no logical reason in flight)? it doesn't HAVE to be at the center of the floorplan and the apparent C/L of the ship...not like it's actually containing gyroscopes to fly the thing, right? 

Of course, this becomes the central war with the J2. Accuracy to what is seen Vs trying to make it actually work. Many folk tend to think 'what you see is always canon' but hey, that means Star Trek needs to still deal with the 40 ft tall Spock clone from the animated series, right? 

There is a part of me that wants to buy this new kit, paint the windows black, spray the ship with testor's silver, and run around the room. Kinda be a poor use of $xx, but hey.....


----------



## Seaview

"Gentlemen, we have the 'gift horse', let us not examine his mouth too closely."- Dr. Zachary Smith, "Wish Upon A Star"


----------



## Steve H

Seaview said:


> "Gentlemen, we have the 'gift horse', let us not examine his mouth too closely."- Dr. Zachary Smith, "Wish Upon A Star"


Well we don't have it YET, now DO we?


----------



## Seaview

"All good things to those who wait." - Dr. Hannibal Lecter


----------



## StarshipClass

Dave Metzner said:


> Mark
> With all due respect. Switching the ignition and a battery on a Mustang is not quite the same as assembling a snow cat from it's variuos components with a couple socket set sets and set of Craftsman screwdrivers!


But, Dave, it's NOT a Snowcat! It's a "Chariot!" 

You have no idea of how hard it is to assemble or disassemble if it were real. It could have been as easy to pull out as the lunar rover from the lunar lander.


----------



## Dave Metzner

What ever! 
You guys just go on and obsess about how to find your way around inside a non-existant ship.....Make it whatever size you like. 
After working with some very sharp people, who have a pretty good working knowledge of Jupiter 2 and Lost in Space, to produce a couple kits of Jupiter 2 
I'll continue on in the well founded belief that Irwin Allen & company gave absolutely no thought to Jupiter 2 as a cohesive design.
That they never worried about how anything fit inside the hull... 
That they didn't give a damn about how one would get from one part of the ship to another since those parts of the ship were all laid out on a sound stage - probably next to oneanother
That Jupiter 2 is nothing more than a setting for a very hokey TV series aimed at children and roughly inspired by Robinson Carusoe.. if you don't believe me go ask the Giant Carrot
Now I'm done wasting valuable time......!
Dave


----------



## toyroy

Dave Metzner said:


> ...I'll continue on in the well founded belief that...Jupiter 2 is nothing more than a setting for a very hokey TV series aimed at children and roughly inspired by Robinson Carusoe.. if you don't believe me go ask the Giant Carrot...


Was that _Swiss Family Robinson Crusoe on Mars_? I'll go ask Alice. I think she'll know...


----------



## j2man

Seriously guys, why do you insist on provoking him........Just be happy. He was very nice in the first post. You should have left well enough alone. I don't always agree with everything the big man says, but when he say's he's worked long hours on something, You bet your rear end he has. If anyone knows the Jupter (fictional or otherwise) he knows it............All of this has been said so many times...................Just be happy. With inflation calculated. That's my 5 cents worth. he he he.


----------



## Ron Gross

Dave Metzner said:


> What ever!
> You guys just go on and obsess about how to find your way around inside a non-existant ship.....Make it whatever size you like.
> After working with some very sharp people, who have a pretty good working knowledge of Jupiter 2 and Lost in Space, to produce a couple kits of Jupiter 2
> I'll continue on in the well founded belief that Irwin Allen & company gave absolutely no thought to Jupiter 2 as a cohesive design.
> That they never worried about how anything fit inside the hull...
> That they didn't give a damn about how one would get from one part of the ship to another since those parts of the ship were all laid out on a sound stage - probably next to oneanother
> That Jupiter 2 is nothing more than a setting for a very hokey TV series aimed at children and roughly inspired by Robinson Carusoe.. if you don't believe me go ask the Giant Carrot
> Now I'm done wasting valuable time......!
> Dave


Now this is something I can generally agree with. In the aftermath of the PL J2, I received literally hundreds of e-mails, virtually all of them positive, and all of which I returned. Many dealt with these space/fit issues, and my responses were always similar in theory (although not necessarily expressed quite the same way).

IA worked on a budget, produced some dazzling visuals, but had no idea that guys like us would be picking this stuff apart with our hi-tech toys some 40+ years later. Even if he could have forseen the future, I doubt that he would have cared. That's why I've always said that no individual interpretation of the J2 interior is necessarily superior to someone else's. So have fun, and build it your way when the time comes.
Ron G.


----------



## Ron Gross

j2man said:


> Seriously guys, why do you insist on provoking him........Just be happy. He was very nice in the first post. You should have left well enough alone. I don't always agree with everything the big man says, but when he say's he's worked long hours on something, You bet your rear end he has. If anyone knows the Jupter (fictional or otherwise) he knows it............All of this has been said so many times...................Just be happy. With inflation calculated. That's my 5 cents worth. he he he.


I seriously doubt if provocation is intended by anyone. I know that if I owned a company like this, I would be delighted to see this level of general interest, which could only lead to increased sales.


----------



## JAT

Totally agree with this idea. So much time and effort { and $$$$ ) is put into this hobby that we are so passionate about that a comprehensive book on this particular subject is certainly in order. By the way, Jack Hagerty's beyond excellent book ' The Saucer Fleet ' should absolutely be in all our resource libraries. To expand on this theme a little; I've been to the sci-fi museum and found it both wondrous and at the same time wanting. I would really like to see established a fan's museum, a place where fan works could not only be displayed ( and possibly guarded from the occasional rampage of the irate spouse or playful pet ), but the possibility of workshops being held for the less advanced of us, forums and the sharing of ideas and methods, and,of course an onsite store to bring so many resources together. Basically, a physical manifestation of what we have on the web. Maybe even a number of them regionally. Just a thought, but it could be a great way to get together and share.


----------



## JAT

John P said:


> I'll probably use glue of some kind.
> 
> 
> :wave:


TOO FUNNY!!!!


----------



## m jamieson

Still..a lot of uncalled for hostility from Dave that basically said the William Shatner remark "Get a life" I am a pilot of 'REAL' full size airplanes and I could look at those who model and memorize stats of aircraft as "arm-chair pilots" with imaginary air forces...but I don't! it's insulting!! No matter how you put it, that was a huge put- down to Sci-fi modelers and that final remark about "done wasting valuable time!" is a pretty big insult to the customer base in general. There are posts all the time that I think are sliding toward the obsessive and delusional but if I were to have an outburst and call them on it I would be flaming them and get myself banned. If Dave can't stand this kind of discussion..just lock the thread and everyone can go to the one in the Sci-fi modeling.
I just think it was very self righteous to lecture about how he is a modeler of REAL things while the rest of you are..not modeling anything of value but a silly kids show. Building models involves imagination no matter what you are modeling and a model airplane is no more real than a model spaceship in the truest sense...it's still just plastic and dreams.


----------



## JAT

m jamieson said:


> Maybe Will and Penny used to sneak up there to smoke! lol


I always suspected something like that about them.


----------



## drmcoy

Dave,

Just having fun. I haven't even read more than 10 or 11 of the posts on this thread.

I saw the pics at Wonderfest -- this was the kit I always wanted as a kid.

I don't care where all the stuff is supposed to fit or not fit -- I loved the show, I loved the ship and I love all models and toys of the ship (and robot).

I will most likely buy this new model -- although it may take me longer to find a place to properly display it than it will to actually build it!! I know others LOVE kits of this size, but I am running out of room to display stuff this big.

Regardless, thanks for making such a cool kit.

Peace. Out.


----------



## m jamieson

yes I agree with Dave... Irwin Allen just made things up in his designs cause he thought they would look cool on film..not because they made any sense, and speaking of making sense why is everyone starting to apologize to Dave for being insulted? He really should be apologizing to YOU!! Is everyone really afraid that this little road bump will make him and Frank pack up their model company and go home? Come on and stand up for your beliefs even if they are not based in reality, after all it wasn't a cosmic storm! lol


----------



## JAT

Steve H said:


> We should probably talk more about the upcoming model before the HAMMER falls on our heads, yes?
> 
> Mentioned earlier "how will you build your kit?", there's a part of me that wants to use the interior to reproduce the set on the soundstage at Fox. Find some references, trick up the backs of the wall parts to look like set pieces (bracing, wiring, etc), maybe pull a couple of the 'wild' sections back to get the camera and crew in there, I dunno.
> 
> Hey, then I could use the hull shell as the 'exterior set' (altho of course it would look much better than the 'full size' in the show), fake up the minimal interior and have that nearby...


Like that idea ALOT!


----------



## mrdean

Dave Metzner said:


> ...
> That Jupiter 2 is nothing more than a setting for a very hokey TV series aimed at children and roughly inspired by Robinson Carusoe.. if you don't believe me go ask the Giant Carrot
> Now I'm done wasting valuable time......!
> Dave


You mean "The Swiss Family Robinson"?

Mark Dean


----------



## JAT

Dave Metzner said:


> Excuse me - as a long time builder of aircraft models - I'm from a modeling world that deals in REAL objects that actualy work in the REAL world. I understand how real airplanes are built and why the fly. I have several hundred books on various aircraft including actual technical manuals. I've spent hours wondering around in museums looking at REAL airplanes that Really fly - I've actually sat in REAL aircraft that I've modeled...
> I hate to rain on your parade guys, but trust me on this one, THERE NEVER WAS A REAL Jupiter 2! All that was REAL was a set on a sound stage.
> I can see Jupiter 2 as pure fantasy, it was never intended to work - It's based on technology that does not exist. Jupiter 2 does not work in many different ways - it never worked - and never will work.
> The interior as represented in the TV series changes from one season to another - much of the interior is hidden from view during the various episodes many areas are never shown and never explained - why does it matter??
> Why does it matter how you get to the space Pod bay from the upper deck - why wouldn't you simply take the elevator down to the Pod bay??
> 
> The Chariot fitting in the Jupiter 2 is another non working concept - Unless the Chariot would be stored within Jupiter 2 in fairly small pieces -So now, we expect two men (Since Smith is absolutely useless) to drag the components of Chariot out of Jupiter 2 and QUICLY assemble it anytime it's needed.
> There can be no conjecture as to the size of chariot or the technology that makes it work -that vehicle won't just diassemble in an hour or two using hand tools and with just two guys doing the work -(sorry guys but that notion is just plain ridiculous!)..(Maybe Maureen is an ace Nascar pit crew person in her spare time??)
> BTW it won't fit on the ramp in place of the sports car in the photo!
> Any of you guys ever build a real car?? Ever try to do it without proper tools?? ever try to pick up an engine or transmission???
> Come on -- give me a break..Chariot was parked outside the sound stage - it never fit into Jupiter 2 ...
> 
> Let's take Jupiter 2 and Lost In Space for what it really was - a fun piece of fantasy nothing more than that. I hope that the new Jupiter 2 kit will make you all happy when it actually gets here...
> 
> 
> Dave


Two words. The Robot ( and a lot of interchangeable hand tools ).


----------



## Y3a

Do any of you plan your OWN special modifications to either make the gear work or fusion core fall off in explosions or some such? How about a REAL challenge! How about an Astrogator with moving, pitching Jupiter 2 inside? How about a moment in time with a figure of Dr. Smith reviving Major West with the Robinsons still in the tubes? Maybe all the Robinsons out, and West with Smith in the elbow grip and the robot just turning to go back to it's compartment?


----------



## Y3a

JAT said:


> Two words. The Robot ( and a lot of interchangeable hand tools ).


The robot was about as worthless as Dr. Smith for actual work. He dug a water trench, and a few other things but he basically hung around to keep an eye on Smith while he and Will messed around and got into trouble.


----------



## toyroy

JAT said:


> ...I've been to the sci-fi museum and found it both wondrous and at the same time wanting...


Have any of you Irwin Allen fans, who live in Seattle, ever talked to the management of the Sci-fi museum's store about Moebius kits? Not only would they sell a bunch, but the exposure would be a real boost for Moebius. :thumbsup:

And Moebius should have an attractive color brochure of all their far-out Irwin Allen models available at such a venue, so that the first-time buyer from Japan will know what other goodies they can get.


----------



## toyroy

Y3a said:


> The robot was about as worthless as Dr. Smith for actual work. He dug a water trench, and a few other things but he basically hung around to keep an eye on Smith while he and Will messed around and got into trouble.


He would have been a good member of Ocean's Eleven.


----------



## m jamieson

Y3a said:


> Do any of you plan your OWN special modifications to either make the gear work or fusion core fall off in explosions or some such? How about a REAL challenge! How about an Astrogator with moving, pitching Jupiter 2 inside? How about a moment in time with a figure of Dr. Smith reviving Major West with the Robinsons still in the tubes? Maybe all the Robinsons out, and West with Smith in the elbow grip and the robot just turning to go back to it's compartment?


Yes, I plan on a pitching astrogator(not spinning, since that is too hard to detect without the 3rd season barber pole painted on) also a gimbaled emergency alarm. Without a lower deck to worry about there is a greater option of space to add these little details under the floor.


----------



## Dar

Dave Metzner said:


> What ever!
> You guys just go on and obsess about how to find your way around inside a non-existant ship.....Make it whatever size you like.
> After working with some very sharp people, who have a pretty good working knowledge of Jupiter 2 and Lost in Space, to produce a couple kits of Jupiter 2
> I'll continue on in the well founded belief that Irwin Allen & company gave absolutely no thought to Jupiter 2 as a cohesive design.
> That they never worried about how anything fit inside the hull...
> That they didn't give a damn about how one would get from one part of the ship to another since those parts of the ship were all laid out on a sound stage - probably next to oneanother
> That Jupiter 2 is nothing more than a setting for a very hokey TV series aimed at children and roughly inspired by Robinson Carusoe.. if you don't believe me go ask the Giant Carrot
> Now I'm done wasting valuable time......!
> Dave



I do think most if not everyone here knows that Dave. People know two levels cant fit in the J2 as scaled.(moreless the 3rd level seen for a few minutes in one episode):lol:. Again people are only having fun discussing the subject matter that the Moebius J2 is based on. It is kinda hard just to discuss the model without referencing the actual object its based on and all its inconsistant inner workings. 

If we only talked about the details of this actual model this thread would have ended a long time ago. Gary gave us all the detail of it over a thousand posts ago. The thread should have ended than if it was to stay specifically on topic with the thread title. Most just came here to celebrate the coming of a new J2 and made this thread unofficially the "official" thread to go to for discussion on the Moebius 
J2 and the object it is based on, specifically, the Jupiter 2 from Irwin Allens tv show called "Lost in Space". 

Maybe its either time for a title change on this thread or just close it.


NOW for anyone that wants to really discuss the J2. Go to this thread I started a while back in scifi modeling.
http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=256883

Discuss anything you wish on the J2. What your plans are for when it pertains to modifying the Moebius J2 or any other J2 model for that matter. Anything is game in that thread. I havent been posting lately but I have been reading it and theres some fun discussing going on in it..:thumbsup: Some of the guys over there really want more input and would welcome more posts.


----------



## abacero

Hi, everybody!

Certainly the J-2 has a lot of emotional charge and is part of very fonded memories. And all we want, since part of our dream to have a model of it came true, is to make it as best as possible, trying to make it as accurate as possible, as detailed as possible, to make us proud owners of THE J-2.

The efforts of PL and Moebius to help us to fulfill this wish are outstanding and worth commendation from all modelers.

Being passionate in this topic only shows our intimate wish to make the best possible J-2 . If you see the the CultTVMan website, you could see some masterpieces of worksmanship, imagination, creativity and passion for the ship.

Now we will have a better tool to work with on the new J-2: bigger... more accurate and detailed... we should take it as a new challenge to prove that we can still be creative, audacious, and even funny with such tool.

I think we can take this thread to a proposal forum on how to take advantage of the wonderful work of all the people involved in the development of the new J-2, from Ron to Dave and all the guys. We all saw the pictures of the first prototype (please excuse me if I do not call it in the right way), and all saw a wonderful piece of design work, now is our turn to improve it with all possible gadgets, effects, modifications and all that makes our hobby the best we like.

Don't you think?

Best regards,

Alberto

_"There are always possibilities".- Spock_


----------



## Ron Gross

Dar and Abacero:
Thank you.


----------



## Steve H

Seconded, Ron. 

Technical question. It's stated that the interior of the new J2 kit is based on the 3rd season (and likely even then somewhat a composite from all the changes from episode to episode), and that makes sense as the exterior is fitted out per 3rd season (pod hatch) and I'm sure in some focus group somewhere it tested as 'the' version to do, which is find and great and happy making.

But was any consideration given to throwing in the extra walls for the changes for 1st or second season? It might have been as little as making a wall section blank with different 'greeblies' to plant on, maybe.

I know, I know, let the aftermarket people have their fun. I just like working with styrene instead of resin, OK?


----------



## Gary K

Steve H said:


> Seconded, Ron.
> 
> Technical question. It's stated that the interior of the new J2 kit is based on the 3rd season (and likely even then somewhat a composite from all the changes from episode to episode), and that makes sense as the exterior is fitted out per 3rd season (pod hatch) and I'm sure in some focus group somewhere it tested as 'the' version to do, which is find and great and happy making.


As far as I know, the focus group was Dave saying he wanted me to do the 3rd season version, and I said, "That's fine with me."



Steve H said:


> But was any consideration given to throwing in the extra walls for the changes for 1st or second season? It might have been as little as making a wall section blank with different 'greeblies' to plant on, maybe.


Nice idea, but the parts count was already so high with this kit, that Moebius couldn't add any additional parts without breaking the budget.



Steve H said:


> I know, I know, let the aftermarket people have their fun. I just like working with styrene instead of resin, OK?


Actually, you don't need the aftermarket people, since you can build a heck of a lot, yourself, from sheet styrene and/or Plexiglas. Back in my youth, many, many years ago, I scratch-built a 12" Space Pod from the aforementioned products, without the benefit of any aftermarket parts. Modifying the Moebius Jupiter into another version should be a piece of cake. 

Mmm... cake... 

Gary


----------



## Steve H

well, sure, if you're YOU or Ron or David (the sub guy) M. Just whip out the centrifuge and spin cast some zinc fittings and carve a new wall section from whalebone and dental resin! 

I do very poorly at that sort of thing. I'm hard pressed to get seams filled without sanding the surrounding area flat! I needs me pre-made option parts because I r lazy! 

And, seriously, I guess I'm too influenced by what I've seen with model aircraft (and, to some extent, armor kits) over the years, where the manufacturer will cut the tooling with future variants in mind, putting 'common' parts on one tree, that sort of thing. Granted, you don't have that much ability to do that with the J2, but I think maybe it could have been done with the Seaview, and even then if not with the big boy surely with the new smaller one, design the tool so you can do the 4- window, the 8-window, maybe Neptune, maybe even the pre 'manta fin' 12 window version.

What could be done with the J2? well, probably parts that are too big to comfortably do other tools with, the podless 1st and 2ed season lower hulls (easy enough to make by just putty or sheet plastic over the hatch), the more shallow profile Gemini XII lower hull, the question about flight deck viewport size has been beaten to death but it MIGHT have been done as an insert piece, maybe, and then the changes to the interior.

So, that's quite a bit to try and do, and thus clearly not practical. Maybe on the (likely) smaller scale version, ya?


----------



## Carson Dyle

I never really cared for the Jupiter 2. I mean, it's just a flying saucer, right? Yawn. When are you guys gonna do a Spindrift? Now _that's _a ship with style!















Sorry Dave, I couldn't resist.

:hat:


----------



## john_trek

One of the coolest PL Jupiter II builds that I saw many years ago was a crash site diorama from season one. The person had modified the control console to remove the center panel and left a hole in the console, representing the position the single control couch occupied in season 1, and then placed a single after market couch in the cockpit instead of 2 (obviously). 

As a wink to the on-screen representation of the set, he built the vertical strip all the way around the base of the saucer.... that damn vertical support that made it so obvious that the ship was just a set piece and not really a saucer buried in the sand. I thought it was very funny, and a nice tribute at the same time.


----------



## Dave Metzner

Spindrift???? Aw come on...
Isn't that ship kinda like an Airstream trailer without the F-150 required to drag it around??? 
At least Jupiter moved around under its own power from time to time..even if we can't be sure how to get to the Pod Bay....
Spindrift was just plain old busted, it just sat there forelornly sorta like a FEMA trailer unless a giant picked it up and carried it around for awhile...
Then again on the bright side there is no arguement about how the interior fits inside Spindrift!
LOL! 
Dave


----------



## Seaview

I'm surprised that nobody on this forum brought up the fact that, like all of the other IA shows AND Star Trek, ALL of the aliens (except the hairy monsters) spoke ENGLISH! :lol:




Dave Metzner said:


> Then again on the bright side there is no arguement about how the interior fits inside Spindrift!
> LOL!
> Dave


 
You're absolutly correct on that, and all three rooms are easily viewable through openings in the hull; main viewport, airlock and passenger compartment windows. It's a perfect ship for a "jungle house" diorama, and (like the Proteus) is _supposed _to be a miniature anyway. :thumbsup:
I earnestly hope that the creative team at Moebius seriously reconsiders their decision and makes the Spindrift available some day. :wave:


----------



## Richard Baker

One thing I noticed about the Aurora Spindrift and the main cabin set is the model cabin seems overwide to fit the windows on each side.

.


----------



## Seaview

That was Aurora. Moebius is a whole different ballgame, and I have every confidence that if anybody can recitify problems like that, it's them. :hat:


----------



## flyingfrets

Seaview said:


> That was Aurora. Moebius is a whole different ballgame, and I have every confidence that if anybody can recitify problems like that, it's them. :hat:


*That's* a fact. Whether you like the subjects or not, and forgetting for a moment all the discord over the way their "real-life" counterparts shoulda/coulda/woulda looked (or worked), detail wise, Moebius has *yet* to miss the mark.


----------



## enterprise_fan

Dave Metzner said:


> Spindrift???? Aw come on...
> Isn't that ship kinda like an Airstream trailer without the F-150 required to drag it around???
> 
> Then again on the bright side there is no arguement about how the interior fits inside Spindrift!
> LOL!
> Dave


I know that we are getting a bit OT talking about the Spindrift in the J2 thread but what about the radio/computer room they used in many episodes?
My Aurora Spindrift didn't come with four rooms, just the command deck, hallway and the passenger cabin.
And no before you say "What about the two doors on either side of the fussion wall in the back?" not enough room. OOPS! there's that IA/TARDIS effect again.


----------



## Dave Metzner

Spindrift is a topic for another time...
Dave


----------



## Antimatter

Anyone started working on any plans for some landing gear?


----------



## Ron Gross

Antimatter said:


> Anyone started working on any plans for some landing gear?


A plan is in the works, and is proceeding well. At the proper time, I will do a completely descriptive post.
Ron G.


----------



## Dar

Ron Gross said:


> A plan is in the works, and is proceeding well. At the proper time, I will do a completely descriptive post.
> Ron G.



Sweet. I will be getting some. Both landing gear though will be cool. Ones for making a nice SFX model and the legs that come with the kit would be great to use as a full scale mockup dio, with the Robinsons standing outside the ship.:thumbsup:


----------



## StarshipClass

I've always considered the "obsessing" and finagling the interior and exterior with Irwin Allen and other fictional craft to be a mental challenge or game some folks choose to engage in. I would consider such mental exercises to be no more wasteful of time than playing a crossword puzzle and certainly more mind-expanding. 

If some want to play the "game" and others don't--so what? If it's fun, go for it! I like hearing folks' ideas though I'll reject about 98% of them myself.


----------



## m jamieson

Do the motorized spinning lights create that much of a different look than the chaser core or is it not that distinctly noticeable to take the trouble to build it that way.


----------



## Ron Gross

m jamieson said:


> Do the motorized spinning lights create that much of a different look than the chaser core or is it not that distinctly noticeable to take the trouble to build it that way.


I met a guy named Jeff Tregre at the last WF who has apparently developed a "fade-in/fade-out" effect for a chase circuit that very closely approximates the visual behavior of a motorized device. He is the same guy who won the gold for his elaborately lit 4' Enterprise A that was along the back wall of the contest room. So if you're interested in that kind of intricacy, it is available, but personally I don't see a huge difference.


----------



## trekkist

Examination of the Jupiter II set plans from the Lost in Space Technical Manual turns up the following interesting(?) tidbits of data:

1)The single-deck “Gemini 12” set plan includes a bold outer circle, presumably representing the outer wall of the exterior spaceship shell, whose diameter is some 50 feet.

2)Comparison of the Jupiter II upper and lower deck sets show marked differences in the position of the elevator. Viewed from above, the lift shaft is to the left of the ship’s centerline on deck 1, to the right on deck 2. It also moves inward by about half its own diameter in traveling downward. 

3)The upper deck set plan lacks a pod bay entrance hatch, therefore predating the third season. Thus, the addition of the pod would move the lift shaft into a roughly corresponding rotational (though not necessarily diametric) position. 

Building upon point 3, it seems the pod bay entrance hatch would lie more or less directly above the (first of 3) power core access hatches. Being as how both hatches opened onto “foyers,” one might presume the back (outermost) power core foyer wall to lie below, and slightly within, the position of the pod’s own hatchway. Thus, the pod can in fact descend without impinging upon any part of deck 2.

By no means do I imply existence of the power core (“deck 3”) as depicted is possible. However, superimposition of the aforementioned deck plans upon the Jupiter II exterior plans from Jack Hagerty’s The Saucer Fleet does render a consistently scaled 2-deck 3rd season Jupiter II buildable from the Polar Lights kit.

Setting the provided interior parts aside, and treating the spacecraft shell as being 1/72 in scale puts the floorline of deck 1 level with the ship’s waist. From here to the top of the power core is a (1/72) scale distance of 7 feet…perhaps a bit tighter than deck 2 as seen on air, but not much. Mind you, only the central area of deck 2 boasts this height; all rooms would be a step up, with slightly lower ceilings. Indeed, the elevator falls outside the diameter of the power core…but if located as shown in the deck 2 set plans, it still has a height of 6.37 feet – low, but usable (I think…how tall was Guy Williams?). 

One-seventy-two-ing the PL kit does of course entail significant alterations to the interior in the regions of the airlock and upper and lower control rooms. Deck 1’s 3 “blinky” computer panels would move outward some 8 feet in order to maintain their positions relative to the viewport. But this seems to me a fair trade for to allow space for the space pod, chariot (perhaps even its ramp), landing leg bays(well…almost), and whatever lay behind the mysterious corridors whose entranceways are seen on both decks during the series. 

As a way of visualizing the upscaling, the PL kit’s “lid” scales to some 50 feet at 1/72…i.e., the overall diameter of the soundstage deck 1 exterior shell. 

The Johnny Lightning pod scales to very close to 1/72, and would pass easily through the PL pod bay hatch. Said hatch, however – though true to its position on the show’s “pod dropper” miniature—does not line up with the deck 1 set’s pod access door. Per the latter, the pod should have emerged on the opposite side of the adjacent landing leg. 

Apropos of nothing at all, a 17.8 inch shell would scale very close to 1/48 if taken as representing a 72-foot diameter ship.


----------



## StarshipClass

^^Now THAT is what I'm talking about, folks! :thumbsup: Makes you think!

Great analysis, Trekkist!


----------



## trekkist

Thanks, Perf! All comes of getting tired of gettin' no respect in trying to resize the TOS Enterprise up to about the size of the new girl by using the enormous TOS shuttlebay as an inviolable size reference...


----------



## Y3a

I have built two entirely different systems to rotate SIX lights around in the fusion core. The first was for the PL 1`2 model. I used a Futaba S33 mini servo withe the electronics removed. It was basically the gearbox and output shaft. I cut away the stop so the servo would be able to rotate completely around. I powered it with 2 rechargable AA cells. I used 6 "Grain of Rice" bulbs on a plastic circle. I cut out a little area for the light at the edges. I made 2 circles of thin brass, one smaller than the other and soldered the bulbs leads to the insides of these circles which I glued to the plastic disk. I used a small servo wheel glued in the center of that plastic part. I used brushes from an old Athern model RR motor to rub against the brass circles to complete the circuit. 

For the 2 foot lunar models J2, I used a NWSL gear box (again, a model RR part) and motor and instead of a loco axle, I ran a brass tube thru the gearbox and ran the 2 wires down to a brass disk which could be removed from the tube by using a Wheel collar. I have a photo a few posts back of that. I used a Deans connector to connect the power to the lights. The top of the brass tube had another wheel collar and an aluminum disk folded into the "V" shape in the bubble. I lit the "V" with 6 LED's as I ws experimenting with them at the time. Both systems are purly mechanical like the early Jupiter 2 was. I have tried some chasers in the PL 12" J2, but 8 lights is incorrect, and I built each of my systems for LESS than the LED chasers on the market. Some things just have to be mechanical to look right. As long as I was trying to make my Looner Moddles 2 foot job look as good as I could, I saw no reason to fudge things with a chaser. The original Jupiter 2 SPFX model was all mechanical after all.


----------



## StarshipClass

Why not spin a "cap" with openings at four opposing points around a central light source?


----------



## abacero

The electronics option for the core has been always the most convenient, IMPO. Since the D.F. Howard circuit there have been a couple of creative minds who created similar options like voodoo and a guy that probably some of you knew, or at least heared about him: Alan King, I purchased a great circuit for a reasonable price. After that he vanished in the thin air.

I think that there could be some genius to make a circuit for the new J-2, still affordable and interesting to improve the model and make it even more interesting to the eye.

Ahhhh...!!! the wonders of after market... 


Best regards,

Alberto


_"There are always possibilities".- Spock_


----------



## Gemini1999

PerfesserCoffee said:


> Why not spin a "cap" with openings at four opposing points around a central light source?


Which is very similar to the small filming model used in the series - take a look at the footage from "The Derelict" while the J2 is circling the ship. You can tell that the light source is fixed and a rotating "shutter" device is used. I think that it looks very effective from a distance, but most people seem to prefer a rotating light unit, or a sequential circuit setup.

Alberto mentioned the DF Howard fusion core and dome light units. I was able to buy a set of those before he stopped selling them. I think that my only gripe would be the yellow color of the LEDs he used, but the effect looks great and it was an excellent price. There are other aftermarket versions out there with the right color of LEDs, but they seem to cost nearly 3 times what the DF Howard unit cost originally.

I've still got mine and I might go ahead and make use of it, or even be brave and replace the LEDs with the right color lights so it looks more like the original light effect.

Bryan


----------



## reticulan5

Like you all I am very excited by the Moebius J2 kit.This I will buy may be 2-3
and keep 1 in the box unmade.
Judging by all the posts and interest shown to a spaceship designed 45 years ago.If Aurora had the sense to build a kit to it when it was prime time.
I believe it would have been a best seller by miles.

I think iI'd be correct to assume that as children back then a Aurora J2 would be our most treasured thing.Then we would of fallen in love again with a Polar Lights re-issue.


----------



## RMC

I may have missed it,... but does anyone what color the styrene will be ?


----------



## toyroy

PerfesserCoffee said:


> Why not spin a "cap" with openings at four opposing points around a central light source?





Gemini1999 said:


> Which is very similar to the small filming model used in the series - take a look at the footage from "The Derelict" while the J2 is circling the ship. You can tell that the light source is fixed and a rotating "shutter" device is used. I think that it looks very effective from a distance...


There's an interesting idea in the Model Lighting forum, which combines a rotating shutter with LED's strobing every 1/24 sec.(film speed.)


----------



## Y3a

PerfesserCoffee said:


> Why not spin a "cap" with openings at four opposing points around a central light source?


I think thats what they did with the lil Gemini12/J2 model.


----------



## Seaview

RMC said:


> I may have missed it,... but does anyone what color the styrene will be ?


 
I'm going to hazard a guess at the same light grey that the Seaview and the Flying Sub interiors were molded in.
That reminds me; make certain that you wash the mold release off the parts before cementing and painting; they use an industrial strength grade of mold release oils at the factory. :wave:


----------



## DaDragon

Dave Metzner said:


> Spindrift is a topic for another time...
> Dave


Are we there yet? :devil:


Just kidding!! :lol:

Seriously, I'm hoping for Moebius to follow-up the J2 with large scale models of Proteus (Fantastic Voyage), Icarus (Planet Of The Apes) and 'The Invaders' UFO, all complete with detailed interiors and all bells and whistles!

Off topic; totally unrepentant - life shouldn't be too serious. :tongue:

Graham


----------



## DaDragon

PerfesserCoffee said:


> I've always considered the "obsessing" and finagling the interior and exterior with Irwin Allen and other fictional craft to be a mental challenge or game some folks choose to engage in. I would consider such mental exercises to be no more wasteful of time than playing a crossword puzzle and certainly more mind-expanding.
> 
> If some want to play the "game" and others don't--so what? If it's fun, go for it! I like hearing folks' ideas though I'll reject about 98% of them myself.


Works for me.

Graham


----------



## Antimatter

Ron Gross said:


> A plan is in the works, and is proceeding well. At the proper time, I will do a completely descriptive post.
> Ron G.


Right on, Ron. You go! :thumbsup:


----------



## Antimatter

PerfesserCoffee said:


> I've always considered the "obsessing" and finagling the interior and exterior with Irwin Allen and other fictional craft to be a mental challenge or game some folks choose to engage in. I would consider such mental exercises to be no more wasteful of time than playing a crossword puzzle and certainly more mind-expanding.
> 
> If some want to play the "game" and others don't--so what? If it's fun, go for it! I like hearing folks' ideas though I'll reject about 98% of them myself.


I think the word you are trying to use is "anal". I admit it. So there.


----------



## toyroy

Moebius's very creative re-use of the chariot tools to make the small Robot got me thinking. Of course, in addition to the regular J2 kit, Moebius will be able to make kits with hulls that are chromed, gold chromed, clear, or glow-in-the-dark. 

Considering the substantial contribution of the cost of the interior to the whole kit, would anyone be interested in kits of _just_ the hull and landing gear? Something you could put a scrim and some minimal cockpit detail in, and make into an in-flight model to mount on a stand, or hang from the ceiling?


----------



## m jamieson

toyroy said:


> Moebius's very creative re-use of the chariot tools to make the small Robot got me thinking. Of course, in addition to the regular J2 kit, Moebius will be able to make kits with hulls that are chromed, gold chromed, clear, or glow-in-the-dark.
> 
> Considering the substantial contribution of the cost of the interior to the whole kit, would anyone be interested in kits of _just_ the hull and landing gear? Something you could put a scrim and some minimal cockpit detail in, and make into an in-flight model to mount on a stand, or hang from the ceiling?



But wouldn't some details needed for 'just a hull' be located on the same mold sprues as some interior parts making it difficult if not impossible to mold one without the other? Also in order to pay for the largest cost of research and development, they really wouldn't be able to lower the cost that much since the actual cost on plastic savings is only a small part of that overhead I would think.


----------



## Mark Dorais

Does anyone know where to obtain copies of this magazine? 
SF Detail: The Pictorial Magazine Vol. 2 
Code: MDG22977 It features the Jupiter 2 Prop, Seaview, Moebius kits etc.?


----------



## Richard Baker

toyroy said:


> Moebius's very creative re-use of the chariot tools to make the small Robot got me thinking. Of course, in addition to the regular J2 kit, Moebius will be able to make kits with hulls that are chromed, gold chromed, clear, or glow-in-the-dark.
> 
> Considering the substantial contribution of the cost of the interior to the whole kit, would anyone be interested in kits of _just_ the hull and landing gear? Something you could put a scrim and some minimal cockpit detail in, and make into an in-flight model to mount on a stand, or hang from the ceiling?


I think that would be a great idea- one complication might be for the landing gear to work you would also need the gear well parts...

.


----------



## Steve H

m jamieson said:


> But wouldn't some details needed for 'just a hull' be located on the same mold sprues as some interior parts making it difficult if not impossible to mold one without the other? Also in order to pay for the largest cost of research and development, they really wouldn't be able to lower the cost that much since the actual cost on plastic savings is only a small part of that overhead I would think.


I would assume this idea would have to be planned for at the tool cutting stage, to put all the 'just the hull' parts in the same shot, and that might not be logical given the needs of flow and balance within the tool.

And it seems it would be fairly complex. Let's see, hull parts, fusion core, top dome, porthole, main viewport, and probably the parts for extended landing gear. Interior replaced with a color cardboard 'faux cockpit' ala the mini Flying Sub.

I suspect that wouldn't be a significant savings to produce, sadly.

altho it's a good template for a reduced size release of the kit ala the small Seaview....


----------



## toyroy

Steve H said:


> ...altho it's a good template for a reduced size release of the(Jupiter 2) kit ala the small Seaview....


Yeah. That's coming up real soon. Right after a large and small Spindrift.


----------



## Y3a

Maybe a lil J2 to go withthat soon to be announced Derelict space craft.


----------



## Trek Ace

Mark Dorais said:


> Does anyone know where to obtain copies of this magazine?
> SF Detail: The Pictorial Magazine Vol. 2
> Code: MDG22977 It features the Jupiter 2 Prop, Seaview, Moebius kits etc.?


Amazon Japan has it in stock.

http://translate.google.com/transla...ail:+The+Pictorial+Magazine+Vol.+2&hl=en&sa=G


----------



## Steve H

toyroy said:


> Yeah. That's coming up real soon. Right after a large and small Spindrift.


Actually, I think before the ship that must not be named lest the gods lay the hammer on us. 

Given the discussions of how they need to 'maximize' each IA license to get the most value, and given the seeming desire to have SOME low pricepoint options for the hobby market (and I assume hopeful sales to Hobby Lobby et al), a reduced scale repop of this new J2 is just logical.

Plastic kits are just like any item in a retail environment. It's not so much about selling the kit to the BUILDER, because we'll slobber and whip out our wallets in a heartbeat. You HAVE to sell to the RETAILERS, convince them that carrying this kit will bring in customers, and in that reality, it's a truism in retail that 'cheap ALWAYS sells'. So, large, sexy Jupiter 2 kit absorbs the majority of the development costs and the CADCAM for cutting the tooling, a smaller version has a higher profit margin at a lower retail pricepoint. A hobby shop might order one big J2 for stock and special order the rest for customer demand, but that same shop might take a risk at a case of sub-$30 MSRP smaller scale Jupiter 2 kits, because he knows it'll 'turn' faster than a big kit.

So, nya nya! That's my thinking. 

Yeah, sorry, retail been too much a part of my life.


----------



## falcondesigns

RMC said:


> I may have missed it,... but does anyone what color the styrene will be ?


 It will styrene colored......


----------



## Captain Han Solo

falcondesigns said:


> It will styrene colored......


 
*DOES IT MATTER WHAT COLOR THE PLASTIC IS????:freak::freak:*


----------



## Captain Han Solo

toyroy said:


> Moebius's very creative re-use of the chariot tools to make the small Robot got me thinking. Of course, in addition to the regular J2 kit, Moebius will be able to make kits with hulls that are chromed, gold chromed, clear, or glow-in-the-dark.
> 
> Considering the substantial contribution of the cost of the interior to the whole kit, would anyone be interested in kits of _just_ the hull and landing gear? Something you could put a scrim and some minimal cockpit detail in, and make into an in-flight model to mount on a stand, or hang from the ceiling?


Perhaps they can put strobe lights in it, Then we can hang it from our Ceiling, and we can use it as a Disco Ball


----------



## Seaview

Steve H said:


> ... a reduced scale repop of this new J2 is just logical... a smaller version has a higher profit margin at a lower retail pricepoint. A hobby shop might order one big J2 for stock and special order the rest for customer demand, but that same shop might take a risk at a case of sub-$30 MSRP smaller scale Jupiter 2 kits, because he knows it'll 'turn' faster than a big kit.


 
Everything you wrote makes perfect business sense, but it should be remembered that a smaller scale Jupiter 2 has been available for a dozen years now, even though it is long out of production; the PL version.


----------



## m jamieson

falcondesigns said:


> It will styrene colored......


Will that be original styrene color..or the restored styrene color? just as long as it's not bakelite color!


----------



## Steve H

Seaview said:


> Everything you wrote makes perfect business sense, but it should be remembered that a smaller scale Jupiter 2 has been available for a dozen years now, even though it is long out of production; the PL version.


But the PL kit wasn't THAT much smaller. Dammit, I wish I had bought a couple of those things, but, you snooze you lose.

*ahem* anyway, by a smaller version of the Moebius Jupiter 2, I'm thinking around 8 inches in diameter or thereabouts. Something that would scale out to around 1/100 or even 1/144 scale, depending on the most commonly agreed to concept of actual size. 

And with that you COULD design the tooling to allow for variations, and while a big Gemini XII might not be commercially viable, a small scale one might be. (yes, I'm still hoping that the smaller Seaview kit is designed in a way that would allow Moebius to release the 8-window version. Boy I sure have unrealistic expectations, don't I?  )


----------



## Seaview

Steve H said:


> (yes, I'm still hoping that the smaller Seaview kit is designed in a way that would allow Moebius to release the 8-window version. Boy I sure have unrealistic expectations, don't I?  )


 
I don't think they're all that unrealistic. I'm hoping for an 8-window "movie" version, too, but in the large scale to make a fine companion piece to the beauty that dominates my living room shelf. :thumbsup:


----------



## JPhil123

Steve H said:


> But the PL kit wasn't THAT much smaller. Dammit, I wish I had bought a couple of those things, but, you snooze you lose.
> 
> *ahem* anyway, by a smaller version of the Moebius Jupiter 2, I'm thinking around 8 inches in diameter or thereabouts. Something that would scale out to around 1/100 or even 1/144 scale, depending on the most commonly agreed to concept of actual size.
> 
> And with that you COULD design the tooling to allow for variations, and while a big Gemini XII might not be commercially viable, a small scale one might be. (yes, I'm still hoping that the smaller Seaview kit is designed in a way that would allow Moebius to release the 8-window version. Boy I sure have unrealistic expectations, don't I?  )


Hello,
Many of us have wishes that are probably not realistic. But at the risk of sounding like this is a wish list thread, a fair sized Gemini XII does not seem so far fetched under the right circumstances. You could have a Gemini XII as a part of an Alpha Control launch complex diorama kit (with parts to make cradle and towers), or a Gemini XII model that comes with a base and with parts to make a crash site diorama. The Gemini XII is not so way out if you consider that we have seen other models and toys that depict alternate versions of science fiction ships like "Captain Pike's Enterprise". I see the Gemini XII as being analogous.

Jim


----------



## Carson Dyle

As an alt. to the Gemini XII Jupiter 2 alt. I wonder if it might be possible to get a Jupiter 2 alt. in the shape of the Spindrift?


----------



## Carson Dyle

Oh, nevermind.


----------



## drewid142

Hey Rob

How do people put up those cute little animated thingies... like that one with the cute little guy beating the dead horse?

...but seriously... I bet there's a Spindrift in our future... there must be... they will probably do one just to shut us all up! ...although it may be a somewhat distant future I guess!


----------



## Steve H

JPhil123 said:


> Hello,
> Many of us have wishes that are probably not realistic. But at the risk of sounding like this is a wish list thread, a fair sized Gemini XII does not seem so far fetched under the right circumstances. You could have a Gemini XII as a part of an Alpha Control launch complex diorama kit (with parts to make cradle and towers), or a Gemini XII model that comes with a base and with parts to make a crash site diorama. The Gemini XII is not so way out if you consider that we have seen other models and toys that depict alternate versions of science fiction ships like "Captain Pike's Enterprise". I see the Gemini XII as being analogous.
> 
> Jim


Well, see, the difference is that when PL made the USS Enterprise kit, they built all the variations into the tooling from the get-go, and it was simple because many of the changes were frankly subtle, such as the 'balls' on the ends of the warp nacelles, the more 'domed' look of the bridge, the curious pointy bits on the nacelle domes...

With the Seaview, I'm not sure of ALL the changes but at the very least they'd need to have had a breakpoint for the bow forward of the sail, I think there was a difference in the sail itself besides the windows, and the issue that the different shapes of the bow affected the 'running boards' and all that. Now, I recall reading that on the new small Seaview they corrected some of the concerns around the aft of the sub, but did they design this kit so that it COULD be issued with different parts for the 8-window or even the Neptune? I don't know. 

But doing that with the large Jupiter 2, that's risky as all get out. Just making the more shallow lower hull and the larger fusion core would be a huge investment at this stage, I expect, and realistically you'll never get the 'masses' to understand WHY it's a cool thing to have. 

But a smaller kit, tooled fresh, maybe an exclusive via the Moebius club, that might happen if they were inclined to do so.

*heh* I bet CultTVman could be talked into a glow exclusive. 

"Gemini XII kit, with exclusive LIFT-OFF GLOW! you have to provide your own scream"

man, I should be in marketing. I'm available....


----------



## BlackbirdCD

How hard would it be to have someone run a bunch of vacuum-formed lower hulls for a Gemini XII aftermarket kit, with resin bits as needed?


----------



## RMC

beatlepaul said:


> *DOES IT MATTER WHAT COLOR THE PLASTIC IS????:freak::freak:*





TO ME ,...YES IT DOES ! .IF ITS MOLDED IN LETS SAY BLACK IT WOULD BE EASIER TO LIGHT UP THE INTERIOR WITH LESS LIGHT ESCAPING

AT LEAST MY QUESTION ISN'T SOMETHING DUMB LIKE DEBATING EXACTLY WHERE THE INTERIOR DOOR IS FOR THE SPACE POD.....GEEZ ..........I DIDN'T KNOW THERE WERE THAT MANY "EXPERTS" HERE...:wave:


----------



## BlackbirdCD

They still make black spray paint, if memory serves. And it's real easy to use too, all you have to do is push a button and paint comes out. Just make sure you know where it's pointing when you push the button. If the paint ends up on you, and not the model, you're doing it wrong... yes you have to have the model within a couple of feet of the spray paint can. If you don't see the button, then you haven't taken the lid off yet. Find a small child or a screwdriver to take the lid off for you if you have difficulty.


----------



## Zorro

J 2 related insults now, eh?


----------



## Antimatter

Arguments start over the most ridiculous things.


----------



## Richard Baker

Do Not!

.


----------



## BlackbirdCD

The vacuumform/aftermarket idea was totally serious, I think it would be a great option. The spray paint instructions, meant to be fun only, not mean


----------



## falcondesigns

RMC said:


> TO ME ,...YES IT DOES ! .IF ITS MOLDED IN LETS SAY BLACK IT WOULD BE EASIER TO LIGHT UP THE INTERIOR WITH LESS LIGHT ESCAPING


It's called model building......putting your skills to work to solve problems and build your model.If this is too tough for you,maybe you might consider model collecting......


----------



## Steve H

*ahem* I wanna play too..

WHY CAN'T THEY MAKE A LIGHTPROOF INSERT FOR THE NEW J2 KIT OUT OF BLACK PLASTIC IT COULD ALSO DOUBLE AS THE GXII SHALLOW HULL THIS WOULD BE TEH AWESOME11!!11

I won't take it to extremes with suggestions of using Bandai's 'multi material' injection machine technology, where you can do multi-color plastic shots within one tool, and shoot ABS and styrene within one part, so, you know, the J2 hull made with silver plastic on the outside and black on the inside...because that would be absurd...


----------



## falcondesigns

it's not absurd.......it's just more EXPENSIVE!!!


----------



## Ignatz

I've got me a $6 can of silver spray paint right here. Blocks light like nothing else. 

I'm really looking forward to the new J2 kit!


----------



## Gemini1999

falcondesigns said:


> it's not absurd.......it's just more EXPENSIVE!!!


It's both....


----------



## Seaview

....AND neither.

(If you can figure that out, you're GOOD!)


----------



## spindrift

...and you wonder why Dave gets irritated reading these posts...
Gary:tongue:


----------



## JeffG

It's the easiest thing in the world to coat the inside flat black, then spray over that with an inner hull color. I'd rather not see the manufactures waste resources on such a typical and obvious step toward lighting a kit. They've got bigger fish to fry. Next some modelers will want peanut butter with the jelly already...oh, they do? Never mind.


----------



## Seaview

You know, it would be a good thing for us all to remember that this is a painting technique that we as advanced modellers learned over the years, and should bear in mind that not everybody who posts in this HTMB community of ours has as much experience as us, so please be as patient as teachers (which, when you think about it, we kind of ARE). :wave:


----------



## Y3a

OH JEEZZZ!!! 

You youngsters just DON'T KNOW HOW TO THINK OUT OF THE BOX! 

LED's and cheezy looking junk like that is not what the jupiter 2 was made from. It had incandescent lights.. You know LIGHT BULBS. 

Find small light bulbs and sockets so you can replace instead of re-solder them and use resistors , tin foil and glue and such to do the job. Mostly, you guys are too chicken to test something that might cost a few bucks only to chuck it if it doesn't work. At least you'll LEARN SOMETHING. 

I built 3 different fusion core/ Spinning whatevers in the bubble before I settled on the SIX light bulbs in the core and SIX light bulbs under the Spinning "V" shaped circle of aluminum. You want it to look correct, or are you gonna settle for easy? Light leaking means your light source is too close to the hull!


----------



## BlackbirdCD

Cool idea - I forget in all of these posts if you have pictures of your setup. Can you re-link?


----------



## Steve H

Y3a said:


> OH JEEZZZ!!!
> 
> You youngsters just DON'T KNOW HOW TO THINK OUT OF THE BOX!
> 
> LED's and cheezy looking junk like that is not what the jupiter 2 was made from. It had incandescent lights.. You know LIGHT BULBS.
> 
> Find small light bulbs and sockets so you can replace instead of re-solder them and use resistors , tin foil and glue and such to do the job. Mostly, you guys are too chicken to test something that might cost a few bucks only to chuck it if it doesn't work. At least you'll LEARN SOMETHING.
> 
> I built 3 different fusion core/ Spinning whatevers in the bubble before I settled on the SIX light bulbs in the core and SIX light bulbs under the Spinning "V" shaped circle of aluminum. You want it to look correct, or are you gonna settle for easy? Light leaking means your light source is too close to the hull!


But the bulbs get HOOOOOT and they burn out and break and stuff *whine*:devil:


----------



## Gemini1999

spindrift said:


> ...and you wonder why Dave gets irritated reading these posts...
> Gary:tongue:



Oh, believe me....I understand why they get irritated. I've followed the thread from the beginning and I'm really thrilled about the kit as is. I do understand where some of the more advanced modelers are coming from because they have specific wants and needs so they don't need to implement special paint for lighting, different body parts for different versions and all. It's basically folks wanting Moebius to design in all the stuff they want so the builders don't have to.

When someone goes to the lengths that Moebius and Co have gone to in order to produce what they think is a stellar kit for the money (and it's not just a little bit of money) and then they get a mile long list of "wants and needs" as though that wish list was being solicited when it isn't.

I mean, look at (in comparison) the limitations of the original J2 kit done by PL - some folks just built it straight from the box, others customized it in ways that it would be completely impactical to do as an off the shelf boxed kit. Others came up with aftermarket parts to either correct or enhance the original kit so everyone could have the benefit of them.

My take on it is, Moebius has a great kit as it stands right now. Leave it to the aftermarket guys and the custom builders to deal with the other stuff instead of saying "it shouldn't be that big of a deal to add...." when they're not developing the kit.

Look at it this way - the aftermarket guys will make a bunch of money while making people happy. The custom builders will do their own thing and the rest will build the kit straight from the box and still have a terrific 18 inch model.

No matter what Moebius does or doesn't do, people are still going to do their own thing with the kit once they get their hands on it. Why should Moebius have to bother doing the footwork with that in mind?

Bryan


----------



## Steve H

It's all good. I just look at this discussion as 'keeping the ball in play' while we await such things as test shot photos. New photos. Because, you know, we want this kit. and stuff.


----------



## Richard Baker

Steve H said:


> It's all good. I just look at this discussion as 'keeping the ball in play' while we await such things as test shot photos. New photos. Because, you know, we want this kit. and stuff.


Sort of people standing in line waiting to see a good movie. You are there to see the film, you have to wait no matter what you want and the people in line are interested in the same things and good to talk with.



OK- now I want popcorn...



.


----------



## Dave Metzner

What me irritated???? never happens......you must have me confused with some one else--
How about Pink??? I kinda think Pink would be uh shall we say---stylish, You know kinda sporty?..Probably gonna turn out to be plain old dreary gray......too soon to tell for sure. I'll tell you for a fact it's not gonna be Black...too hard to cover with light colors when you go to finish it!

It's a Jupiter 2 kit not Gemini XII - no plans at all for Gemini XII or any parts there of as part of this project. If somebody wants to vaccuform Gemini XII parts - knock youselves out -that's Not any part of anything we plan to do...

And as a parting thought.... ladies and gentlemen - drum roll please! today's advanced modelling tip - Make sure you point that spray can away from you before you press that little button on top!! Sheesh!


----------



## toyroy

Dave Metzner said:


> ...How about Pink??? I kinda think Pink would be uh shall we say---stylish, You know kinda sporty?...


I could go for a glow-in-the-dark pink hull. :thumbsup:



Dave Metzner said:


> ...If somebody wants to vaccuform Gemini XII parts - knock youselves out...


Tsk, tsk- hostile, hostile, hostile!  


Dave Metzner said:


> ...today's advanced modelling tip - Make sure you point that spray can away from you before you press that little button on top...


I would only add that keeping your spray paint and hairspray on the same counter can lead to unfortunate results... :drunk:


----------



## Paulbo

Dave Metzner said:


> And as a parting thought.... ladies and gentlemen - drum roll please! today's advanced modelling tip - Make sure you point that spray can away from you before you press that little button on top!! Sheesh!


And don't forget to play nice with your airbrush ... lest you somehow figure out a way to force air back into the reservoir and shoot paint out through the little hole in the top of the lid all over your face. 

That's not fun to clean off! :freak:


----------



## Steve H

Dave Metzner said:


> What me irritated???? never happens......you must have me confused with some one else--
> How about Pink??? I kinda think Pink would be uh shall we say---stylish, You know kinda sporty?..Probably gonna turn out to be plain old dreary gray......too soon to tell for sure. I'll tell you for a fact it's not gonna be Black...too hard to cover with light colors when you go to finish it!
> 
> It's a Jupiter 2 kit not Gemini XII - no plans at all for Gemini XII or any parts there of as part of this project. If somebody wants to vaccuform Gemini XII parts - knock youselves out -that's Not any part of anything we plan to do...
> 
> And as a parting thought.... ladies and gentlemen - drum roll please! today's advanced modelling tip - Make sure you point that spray can away from you before you press that little button on top!! Sheesh!


I was just using some rattlecan dark green today for a project...see? just talking about this is slowly getting me back to building again!

but...but...HA! GOTCHA! "no plans for a Gemini XII as part of THIS project!" But this won't be the ONLY LIS project, will it? huh? huh! NO! 

There, I've run rings around you logically! CONFESS! :devil:

And FWIW, I'm perfectly happy if the J2 is molded all in one color, be it gray or white or light tan (hey, the styrene pellets might be on special and you can get a deal!) or baby blue.


----------



## DaDragon

*. . .*



Y3a said:


> OH JEEZZZ!!!
> 
> You youngsters just DON'T KNOW HOW TO THINK OUT OF THE BOX!


Ehm, would that be the box the model comes in . . .!?!? 

Graham.


----------



## toyroy

m jamieson said:


> But wouldn't some details needed for 'just a hull' be located on the same mold sprues as some interior parts making it difficult if not impossible to mold one without the other?...





Steve H said:


> I would assume this idea would have to be planned for at the tool cutting stage, to put all the 'just the hull' parts in the same shot, and that might not be logical given the needs of flow and balance within the tool.
> 
> ...And it seems it would be fairly complex...I suspect that wouldn't be a significant savings to produce...





Richard Baker said:


> I think that would be a great idea- one complication might be for the landing gear to work you would also need the gear well parts...


As I see it, when it comes to alternate color or finish of the Jupiter 2, the important thing is the hull. I'm suggesting a bare-bones kit- just enough parts to make an in-flight model. For a gear-down version, Steve's cardstock interior insert sheet could include the requisite gear and well parts.

For the colored or finished parts, you need the upper and lower hull pieces; the fusion core frame; and the parts of the landing gear which double as part of the lower hull(three gear leg backs, and three pad doors.) You'd also need the clear core insert, top dome, porthole, and viewport- for a total of thirteen plastic parts.


----------



## John P

DaDragon said:


> Ehm, would that be the box the model comes in . . .!?!?
> 
> Graham.


Yeah, but you can never get the parts to fit back in!


----------



## toyroy

Steve H said:


> ...a reduced scale repop of this new J2 is just logical...You HAVE to sell to the RETAILERS, convince them that carrying this kit will bring in customers, and in that reality, it's a truism in retail that 'cheap ALWAYS sells'. So,...a smaller version has a higher profit margin at a lower retail pricepoint. A hobby shop...might take a risk at a case of sub-$30 MSRP smaller scale Jupiter 2 kits, because he knows it'll 'turn' faster than a big kit...





Steve H said:


> ...by a smaller version of the Moebius Jupiter 2, I'm thinking around 8 inches in diameter or thereabouts...And with that you COULD design the tooling to allow for variations, and while a big Gemini XII might not be commercially viable, a small scale one might be...





JPhil123 said:


> ...a fair sized Gemini XII does not seem so far fetched under the right circumstances. You could have a Gemini XII as a part of an Alpha Control launch complex diorama kit (with parts to make cradle and towers), or a Gemini XII model that comes with a base and with parts to make a crash site diorama. The Gemini XII is not so way out if you consider that we have seen other models and toys that depict alternate versions of science fiction ships like "Captain Pike's Enterprise". I see the Gemini XII as being analogous.


Funny- I did forget about the new small Seaview. Assuming the big J2 sells(you think there's enough interest?,) I like the traditional Aurora-size model you're talking about. Moebius could even split the hull parts to fit a smaller box- and bring the price down further. They could also host online colored printouts for various download-and-assemble cardstock dealer-like displays- like Phil's launch site, or a planetary crash site.


----------



## toyroy

Y3a said:


> OH JEEZZZ!!!
> 
> You youngsters just DON'T KNOW HOW TO THINK OUT OF THE BOX!...





DaDragon said:


> Ehm, would that be the box the model comes in . . .!?!?





John P said:


> Yeah, but you can never get the parts to fit back in!


Oh. I thought he meant a box of rocks. _Man_, those things are tough to out-think...


----------



## StarshipClass

Dave Metzner said:


> And as a parting thought.... ladies and gentlemen - drum roll please! today's advanced modelling tip - Make sure you point that spray can away from you before you press that little button on top!!


Sounds like the voice of experience talking there!

No, wait--scratch that! I was thinking of *my* experience the other day!

Always double check the stupid stuff! :tongue:


----------



## Dave Metzner

I'd say it's safe to say that we have no plans to do anything with Gemini XII. I know that there'll be howls of disagreement from a few of you, but it is an obscure side note to Lost in Space. and there are not enough customers for that kit to make it financially practical.
And the cost of adding parts for it to the current kit is also a financial non starter.
So I go back to my last statement if somebody out there wants to do a conversion kit - have at it!
There are many much better known subjects that actually make sense for us to do. I cannot imagine that we will devote any resources to a Gemini XII project...

I also find it hard to envision another - smaller J-2 kit in our future... there are too many other neat things out there that can be done ....


----------



## JPhil123

Dave Metzner said:


> I'd say it's safe to say that we have no plans to do anything with Gemini XII. I know that there'll be howls of disagreement from a few of you, but it is an obscure side note to Lost in Space. and there are not enough customers for that kit to make it financially practical.
> And the cost of adding parts for it to the current kit is also a financial non starter.
> So I go back to my last statement if somebody out there wants to do a conversion kit - have at it!
> There are many much better known subjects that actually make sense for us to do. I cannot imagine that we will devote any resources to a Gemini XII project...
> 
> I also find it hard to envision another - smaller J-2 kit in our future... there are too many other neat things out there that can be done ....


Hello,

No howls here...I know such alternate products were not going to be done at all, as it was mentioned previously. What I posted was just for discussion purposes. But, such postings verge as being/or are off topic and belong elsewhere. Now, turning to those other neat things you've mentioned...on second thought, I'll just keep quiet.

Regards,
Jim


----------



## Cajjunwolfman

Will this thread continue to the actual release date of the kit? Or will it "Burn Out?


----------



## StarshipClass

Cajjunwolfman said:


> Will this thread continue to the actual release date of the kit? Or will it "Burn Out?


Please, O' Powers That Be, CLOSE THE THREAD before it gets much longer and subtitle it "part 1" and open a new one with the subtitle "part2.":wave:


----------



## RMC

I Can't Believe The Amount Of ....... "Experts" and MENTAL MIDGETS Here With Spray Cans.....cyberjerks !

A Person Asks One Question Here And The Whole Crowd Chimes In Negatively,....geez Go Get Some Will Ya !


----------



## falcondesigns

Cajjunwolfman said:


> Will this thread continue to the actual release date of the kit? Or will it "Burn Out?


this was "Burnt Out" at page one.........


----------



## Cajjunwolfman

Let it run! Let it run! Perhaps a Hobbytalk record is working for the longest thread!


----------



## Ron Gross

I agree.


----------



## DaDragon

John P said:


> Yeah, but you can never get the parts to fit back in!


Use a lump hammer; I do and it works every time!!! :freak: :devil:

Graham.


----------



## DaDragon

Dave Metzner said:


> I also find it hard to envision another - smaller J-2 kit in our future... there are too many other neat things out there that can be done ....


Like a Proteus (Fantastic Voyage - film), an Icarus (Planet of the Apes) and an Invader's UFO?!?!? 

Ooh; I just got deja vue . . .!!!

Graham.


----------



## DaDragon

Cajjunwolfman said:


> Let it run! Let it run! Perhaps a Hobbytalk record is working for the longest thread!





Ron Gross said:


> I agree.


Be a shame to crash and burn now. 

Graham.


----------



## Y3a

Are we talking modern Sci-Fi, or the classics, or the "B" movie items? More vehicles and robots, or organic subjects? Any factual items on the 'maybe list' ?? Do accessories figure in there?


----------



## StarshipClass

RMC said:


> I Can't Believe The Amount Of ....... "Experts" and MENTAL MIDGETS Here With Spray Cans.....cyberjerks !
> 
> A Person Asks One Question Here And The Whole Crowd Chimes In Negatively,....geez Go Get Some Will Ya !


Well, it was all in fun--wasn't it?

I already got some--some sense of humor, anyway. Not necessarily a_ good _sense of humor but it works for me


----------



## RMC

Well At Least Your Honest!


----------



## Captain Han Solo

RMC said:


> I Can't Believe The Amount Of ....... "Experts" and MENTAL MIDGETS Here With Spray Cans.....cyberjerks !
> 
> A Person Asks One Question Here And The Whole Crowd Chimes In Negatively,....geez Go Get Some Will Ya !


 
I don't believe any hostility was aimed at You for your question. However the "Mental Midgets" and "cyber jerks" comments were un called for. Of Course, if you made the comments in the same spirit as the ones you believe were aimed at you,with humor, I stand corrected.

I think that the thread really has run it's course.And it has become nothing but Nonsensical drivel about a kit that has NOT even been released yet.And although I never like to talk for others, it's safe to say I am not the only one who feels this way.

If the kit were indeed OUT and we were Building it, The sharing of Ideas to make it this or that, And sharing intelligent ideas is what this place is all about.

I can't see how it can be done constructively without the actual kit in hand:freak:

Of course there are others who say, "If you don't like the thread then don't read it",and of course that may be true .....But...

Have a good day and build a Model!


----------



## m jamieson

or date a model!


----------



## m jamieson

Has anybody ever thought of how to motorize the hatch on the new Moebius J2?....there that should keep it going for a few more posts!


----------



## Dave Metzner

Well guys, I think that it's time. 
This thread has been wandering along for quite a number of pages mostly off topic. I probably should have closed it at about Page 25!
I'm just not a big fan of setting records for longest threads, especially when they've become mostly pointles ramblings about no particular topic.
I think that it's time to put this one to rest. 

After some thought I decided to sticky this thread for a while so that it won't vanish on back pages and the information about the forthcoming kit will be relatively easy to find!

PM Moderator


----------

