# Moebius Seaview Flying Sub Bay Hatch Options



## BigGuido (May 7, 2008)

Fellas,
Does anyone here have any thoughts on or plans to build working Flying Sub bay doors for their Seaview? I actually built opening and closing doors into a Polar Lights Seaview way back in 2002 in an attempt to give myself that Seaview I always dreamed of as a wee kiddo. The results were just "O.K." as my modeling skills were still in "rehab" after about 20 years of neglect. It was also at that time that I decided that resin add-on kits left a lot to be desired.

Anyhoo, I would like to know what you guys thoughts are on this matter/challenge before I plunge into the mix of building my dream Seaview.

Keep 'Em Flyin'! :thumbsup:

Big Guido


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

You could do them as you'd do a roll top desk, only in strips of Evergreen styrene instead of wood. The outer layer would be .020, all square edged, butt-jointed together. The middle layer needs to be something flexible that styrene would adhere to, a thin plastic mesh that I'm still searching for. The inside layer would need to have its inward facing edges rounded or beveled so that it would bend around the radius of the sub hatch. Again .020. That would bring the total thickness to about .050. It could slide in an .050, .060 groove inside the bay. That would also correctly bring the doors inside the bay, not flush with it as the Moebius kit has it.


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## scotpens (Sep 6, 2003)

What complicates the issue is the fact that the Flying Sub bay opening has a compound curve. That is, the opening, and the single-piece hatch provided in the kit, have a pronounced bow both laterally and fore-and-aft. I don't believe this was the case on the 17-foot filming miniature; the roll-away doors appear to be straight from front to back. Just how does one engineer a tambour-type door to fit on a compound curve? Is it even possible, or would the entire bottom bow section have to be rebuilt?


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## falcondesigns (Oct 30, 2002)

starseeker,you should look into cloth or fine fabric of some kind.alexander


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

It would be very difficult with the kit as-is. One thing I noticed upon first unpacking my Seaview kit was that the bottom contour under the bow around the flying sub bay hatch did not match the studio models. The studio models have a soft cylindrical bulge under the bow for the flying sub bay. The Moebius kit has a hemispherical bulge (a dome shape) for the flying sub bay, resulting in a compound curve for the ribbed doors, instead of a single contour - like on the studio models.










The flying sub bay has straight sides and curved ends on the studio models, and is represented in the Moebius kit with curved ends _and_ curved sides. In order to make the rolling doors work on the Moebius kit, the bow underside would have to be recontoured to a more cylindrical shape to match the studio models, so the doors could roll up and to the sides.


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## Captain Han Solo (Apr 5, 2002)

....The real Miniature had a series of ..wooden dowls and Cloth as the doors!

On the TV Screen looks fantastic, up close.....crap!!!!


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

The kit FS bay looks NOTHING like the bay in the above photo...


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## Captain Han Solo (Apr 5, 2002)

djnick66 said:


> The kit FS bay looks NOTHING like the bay in the above photo...


...That's because they didn't have a bay to go on when tooling the kit.

The real bay was"Discarded"(thrown in the trash) during one of it's "restorations"

Also remember there was no real interior in the Seaview Miniatures. The interior consisted of a box made out of milky colored clear plexi-glass, some rather crude figures, the steel girders and lit by a car headlight...

For the flying sub egress,ingress, the put a red filter on the light and added some girders for a 3d effect...


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

Rats, haven't seen the model yet. So the thing to do there is a square box first, fit the doors into the box, then fit the box into the bottom of the kit, and recontour the bottom of the kit to the box. Given the small size of everything, some plastic shims and a little bondo won't make for a particularly difficult job. 
Off T, I'd always been under the impression that the observation nose in the first season was the same as the nose in the movie. But 2 years elapsed between movie and series and the sets were in storage for all that time. When the nose was rebuilt for the series, set decorations were certainly different and it appears that the dimensions, especially on the port side aft, might have changed. It just doesn't look quite the same in that recessed nook. Anyway, have finished (but not painted) a movie style ON, including a home-made spiral staircase that was a blast to build! Will take some photos and post in a couple of weeks.
OnT, guess it's time to start on a flying sub hangar. 
In 1/128 scale, the FS should be almost exactly 3" x 3". Can anyone confirm the size of the Moebius FS?


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## gareee (Jan 1, 1970)

That sounds about right kit wise, though I haven't measured it.


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

beatlepaul said:


> ...That's because they didn't have a bay to go on when tooling the kit.
> ...


Well they had the photos of the miniatures to go by...


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## WarpeD (May 28, 2007)

If one contours a retraction dowel that matches the profile of the curve, you can retract curved tambors. Don't think in terms of a cylindrical dowel - think of something that has a slight bulge in the middle of it's profile when viewed perpendicular to the axis of rotation. Construction of the retractable door...whoa. Slats on something very flexible would be good, just not so flexible as cloth. Overall I just don't think it's worth the effort. How many times over the course of the model's display life will you really operate those doors?


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## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

What about using sanding film instead of cloth for the backing ? It's flexible enough and should be durable.


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## jbond (Aug 29, 2002)

You can't have the Flying Sub bay as seen in that shot and the full control room interior. Period.


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

I will check out sanding film.
Home today with a cold. Boxed up a hangar this morning. The essential part of it all is that it has to absolutely square, or else the sliding doors will either bind or fall out of their tracks. I made the bay out of .040 styrene and the tracks out of .030 x .040 strip. 
In the picture posted above, the FS bay takes up at least 1/2 the depth of the hull. But there seems to be a step forward that might be the bottom back of the control room space. This shot is almost identical to the launch in 5 of Us are Left. In the Left Handed Man, the ceiling of the bay on that miniature is perfectly flat, no step. I've gone with the flat ceiling.
But because of its low height, it's impossible to get all that bay back wall detail proportionate if you're fitting the observation nose and control room above. I've added most of the detail, but it's a little compressed vertically. Also the doors won't roll up into the hull far enough for the hangar to open fully. So I've had to leave a boxed in gap on either side of the ceiling of the bay for the doors to retract into. They roll up on either side of the observation nose. 
No, one won't open the hangar doors that often, or even more than twice. But it's just a lot of fun to make. 
No one has a measurement of the Moebius FS? Still more a month till I can open mine.


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

Its real hard to glue stuff to sanding films... tried that before on another project. If you get something to stick it will pop off when the film is flexed.

I think having a snap on/removable door section as in the kit already works well. Making it operate also risks breakage. 

You will probably also wind up with some fairly large gaps around the edge of the bay with a working door.


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

No, no gaps of any kind, save for a space of .010 between the track and the door. And this way, the sliding doors are also recessed (.030) into the hull, not flush or proud as they appear to be on the kit.


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## scotpens (Sep 6, 2003)

starseeker said:


> . . . No one has a measurement of the Moebius FS? Still more a month till I can open mine.


The Flying Sub measures 3-1/4 by 3-1/4 inches. Don't know the height as I don't have the kit on hand at the moment, but it just barely squeezes into the FS bay.


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## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

djnick66 said:


> Its real hard to glue stuff to sanding films... tried that before on another project. If you get something to stick it will pop off when the film is flexed.


Interesting. Did you try 2-part expoxy ?


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## Eric K (Jul 15, 2001)

jbond said:


> You can't have the Flying Sub bay as seen in that shot and the full control room interior. Period.



Someone is really trying to make sense of an Irwin Allen interior juxtoposition? Methink it needs a Tardis unit to do that.:tongue:


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

Thanks! Whew! The opening for the doors is 3 7/16" square and as long as the FS is not more than 1" deep it should fit. Haven't decided whether to go the magnet route or to try to make a tiny attachment mechanism that might fit into the grills surrounding the FSs upper hatch. I'd kind of like to put a hatch in the top of the bay, which would rile out the magnet option.. 
Yes, you can reconcile the Seaview's interior and exterior and make it all fit if you pick and choose which versions you want to combine. At least at the nose. Totally Tardised when it comes to the missile tubes and the mini-sub bay, tho.


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## Admiral Nelson (Feb 28, 2002)

beatlepaul said:


> ....The real Miniature had a series of ..wooden dowls and Cloth as the doors!
> 
> On the TV Screen looks fantastic, up close.....crap!!!!


Most FX models looked like crap up close. They were done on a shoestring budget.


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## Seaview (Feb 18, 2004)

Admiral Nelson said:


> They were done on a shoestring budget.




(Source; Wikipedia):
All three Seaview models were built for a total 1961 price of $200,000 by Herb Cheeks model shop at Fox, and was filmed by L.B. Abbott who won two Emmy Awards for special effects in the series.


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## woof359 (Apr 27, 2003)

so is the kit made so the FS can sit inside the hull docked? with doors open?


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## GKvfx (May 30, 2008)

woof359 said:


> so is the kit made so the FS can sit inside the hull docked? with doors open?


'Doors' is somewhat of a misnomer. What you get is actually more like a panel. If you want to model the Seaview with the hatch closed, you glue it on. If you want to model it with the hatch open, you simply leave it off.

And yes, you have the option of gluing a little part to the top of the Flying Sub that allows you to twist it and lock it into place.

Gene


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## Seaview (Feb 18, 2004)

Yes. Go and get one, Woofie, you won't regret it; this kit actually lives up to the hype.


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

GKvfx said:


> And yes, you have the option of gluing a little part to the top of the Flying Sub that allows you to twist it and lock it into place.
> 
> Gene


I'd stick a big magnet in the FS and one in the hatch/dock on the roof of the FS Bay myself so you can use the top detail on the FS. If you use the peg as per the kit, you have to leave off the top FS hatch so there is a key hole there


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

Lee Valley Tools (.com) sells small, very powerful rare earth magnets that are great for modeling. I use the 1/4" dia magnets and cups all over my various space station models for attaching various modules and spacecraft. Holes for the magnets can be drilled into plastic from the inside and the magnets can be cemented with 5 minute epoxy.


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## Moebius (Mar 15, 2007)

djnick66 said:


> I'd stick a big magnet in the FS and one in the hatch/dock on the roof of the FS Bay myself so you can use the top detail on the FS. If you use the peg as per the kit, you have to leave off the top FS hatch so there is a key hole there


Actually, the key is glued inside the FS Bay. You don't have to leave the hatch off, you just don't glue the hatch on. The built up we use for shows has the hatch sitting on top of the FS, and when we want to show how it works, just a small lift with a fingernail takes it off. The FS fits right up in the bay with a small turn. It very simple, and I haven't broken in it many uses at shows. The cover for the landing gear hook/stand works the same basically. It just press fits in the bottom, and pulls out easy for use with the stand. The stand may need to be "fit" the the hole to avoid cracking it. It is a tight fit and may be better with it slightly narrowed.


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## Jaruemalak (Jun 12, 2008)

*Attaching the Flying Sub*

I went with magnets. You can get six very small, very powerful rare earth magnets from Hobby Lobby or most craft stores for about $2.50. There is a nice recess in the roof of the FS bay that leaves plenty of room for a magnet. I glued one in there and the other into the roof of the FS. Just make SURE before you glue the magnets that you have the poles correct! The FS stays in the bay very nicely and is easily removable.


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