# Not Good News for our hobby



## Guy Schlicter (May 3, 2004)

Hi Folks, I hope your all doing well. I went shopping yesterday at the last 2 hobby shops I know of in Manhattan. I talked to the owner of Jans who I've known for some time and she pointed out her remaining Polly Scale Paints to me. I said to Collette I don't understand why Testors is discontinuing such a good line of paint. Collette than said because not enough people buy it, she then said a person came into her store from China and said 6 hobby shops closed. I thought this was just happening in the U.S. but its happening overseas too. I love Star Trek and model building. We did hards will keep this hobby alive. Guy.


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## MadCap Romanian (Oct 29, 2005)

Yup. The whole world is playing video games. The hobby is dead. I've heard this for years. Anyone ever think hobby stores die off because ...

A) Poor Management
B) Poor use of financial resources
C) Bad Customer Service
D) Bad Market Research
E) Long-time owners wanting to retire with no Heir to take over the business
F) High prices
G) A reduction in the area of hobbyists new and old?

I have owned my hobby store, Monster Hobbies in High River Alberta, Canada for 9 years. In the Recession, (2008-2011) I washed Cattle Liners and painted houses so that my business could survive through the hard times. We were hit with the High River Flood of 2013 and I had 5 feet of water rush through my building, destroying everything. I am still open in temporary Sprung buildings and my sales are better this year than they have ever been in my 9 years in business, despite the flood. In the last 2 months, I see that my sales are still high like they were before the flood. 

Whatever people are doing to kill the hobby can't solely be blamed on trivial things like "Video Games". Perhaps these hobby stores that close out should consider if they are meeting their customer's needs instead of just throwing up their hands and quitting!

I have had to change my "Marketing Model" a few times over the 9 years. I had to change from a store that sold model car, boat, train and plane kits to one that now sells model kits, Warhammer and Warhammer 40k, hosts Magic : The Gathering nights, sells Lego Competitor bricks, carries Dungeons and Dragons books and so much more. 

Also, being involved in the community helps out too. I am working towards becoming a Boy Scout Leader to do my part to help the youth..primarily my daughter who has started in Beavers. It's also a good opportunity to get the youth involved in model building with Pine Cars and eventually I want to get the Revell "Make 'N' Take" program started in the community. 

The problem with current hobby shops is that they forget that they need a goal - the goal is to succeed as a store that inspires people to build or game or whatever they like to do.

That's all!


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

I have been a steady customer at my LHS for 43 years- they have changed around a bit but the owner is still committed to keeping all new releases in stock. I buy from him every chance I get, even if I can get it cheaper online. 
There used to be several other hobby stores in this area, one blew its wad on a massive HO Railroad display that was a third the size of store (a personal indulgence of the owner) and another relocated to a nearby town (cheaper rent but too far for me to drive too). 
Homewood Toy & Hobby really tries to help it's customers, the staff is knowledgeable in everything they sell and loves to share. The owner is good about locating hard to find kits through his suppliers, he even stocked Bandai Trek and Revell-Germany Star Wars kits. He cannot get everything out there, but I buy from him as much as I can...


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

Guy Schlicter said:


> Hi Folks, I hope your all doing well. I went shopping yesterday at the last 2 hobby shops I know of in Manhattan. I talked to the owner of Jans who I've known for some time and she pointed out her remaining Polly Scale Paints to me. I said to Collette I don't understand why Testors is discontinuing such a good line of paint. Collette than said because not enough people buy it, she then said a person came into her store from China and said 6 hobby shops closed. I thought this was just happening in the U.S. but its happening overseas too. I love Star Trek and model building. We did hards will keep this hobby alive. Guy.


Well for one there is some gross misinformation.

Testors did NOT discontinue Poly Scale Paint. Testors does not make Poly Scale paint. Now, Testors, Poly Scale, Floquil, etc. are owned by a parent company RPM (Lock Tite, American Accents, etc.). RPM decided that Poly Scale and Floquil sales just were not up to par and discontinued these brands.

People get upset about it, but companies make products to make money. If they don't sell, they go. I know when I had my own hobby shop, Poly Scale was the slowest selling paint of all. I probably sold 1 jar a month, compared to 50 a day for Testors or Tamiya. Even Humbrol far outsold Poly Scale. 

Local Hobby Shops may be dying off but the hobby as a whole is stronger than ever. If it were really dead, there would be no new kits, no reissues, no new licensing, no new companies, etc. If it were dead would MPC and AMT be making huge comebacks and reissuing all sorts of old kits as well as putting out all new kits? 

What a lot of people don't realize, and this is nothing new, that sales trends can and do change over time. Back in the early 20th Century, catalog sales dominated the retail industry. You could live out in BFE in Montana and buy anything you needed from the Sears, Montgomery Ward, JC Penny catalog. That type of selling is largely dead now. I think it really took a dive in the late 1980s. At around the same time you had other trends like the growth of big box stores. Wal Mart, Best Buy etc. Now you see some of those faltering as sales trends again change. The internet is a new market. Its the catalog sales option of the 21st century. 

Stores have to adapt to stay open. Carry new items or offer things to customers they can't get online. Traditional stores have had to adapt. Some are successful (Macys) some are not (Sears).


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## ScottH (Nov 24, 2005)

I am not a modeler but an R/C addict for more than 25 years now and we see this as well. I too live in Bham and like Richard support Homewood as often as I can.

The HO display, LOL that brings back some memories! I knew all those guys well too.

I think it is in part the "I want it now" mentality. We had a talk after our race last night about what do we think can be done to get more involved in our brand of racing, the other comment was "look around, there are no kids here."

What do we do?

Beats me, but we are going to keep trying. Some of my best memories are BUILDING models, rockets and now R/C cars. 

One of my best memories from my model days is that I had my "model building pants", my mom would only let me use 1 or 2 pairs of pants because I would wipe the glue off my fingers on my pants! 

Anyway guys, keep up the good fight and maybe, just maybe we can get these kids out of the house, away from the TV and DOING something with their hands.


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## jgoldsack (Apr 26, 2004)

djnick66 said:


> If it were really dead, there would be no new kits, no reissues, no new licensing, no new companies, etc. If it were dead would MPC and AMT be making huge comebacks and reissuing all sorts of old kits as well as putting out all new kits?



Agreed. Oh no a brand of paint is being cancelled due to poor sales, end of the world. Same with the hobbyshops that close. Demographics change. Where a hobbyshop used to thrive, due to people moving, aging, etc, they may no longer, and have to either move locations or close. It is no different than any other business. I know of 3 McDonalds that closed in my area. Does that mean McDonalds is dying? No.

Got to look at the factors surrounding the cancellation or closing to get an understanding of what is going on. Our hobby isn't dying, it is restructuring itself.

it is doing fine as a whole, just some areas are not as viable as they used to be.


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

Well, in my opinion, the hobby is not dead, but it's _shifting_ in North America: 

Retail has shifted somewhat from bricks 'n' mortar to online. 

Customers are older … _mostly_ the same people who were kids in the sixties-seventies.

The customer base has shrunk: fewer young folk build models, and the bulk of the sixties-seventies kids grew out of it or don't have the time. 

Working with one's hands is not required as much as it was for our parents and grandparents (I'm 53): those skills are in decline, though the home DIY trend seems to allow a resurgence in those skills. But home DIY is not as popular as it was post-WWII.

Toys and collectibles are so much more sophisticated these days, knocking out the group who want to build models so they have something to play with, or have something from their favourite TV show.

Kids don't just play video games, they text, they surf. They all have phones, all the time. Remember when we didn't have our own phones and had to use the family's land line ("get off the phone!")? Gratification is more instant nowadays, and unless you love making stuff with your hands, the gratification of having a built model is _delayed_, compared to buying an Art Asylum piece, for example. Not everyone wants to delay that gratification.

But yes, there's a ton of high-level detailed model stuff out there: resin, etch, lighting, and a lot of reissues of injection kits. It's a good time to be a modeller because the choice is tremendous. But is it a business for someone who doesn't already have a love for it? Is it as mainstream now as it was in the seventies?

It's not dead, but it's not as popular as it was in the seventies. It's _shifted_. Good on you, Madcap, for shifting with it. You've kept a kind of "hobby" theme in your store, which is great.


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

On the good news side, I forgot to mention the wealth of model-building information available on the internet!


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## mrstumpy (Oct 5, 2013)

*RE: Not good news for our hobby*

My first comment is that there should be an "s" at the end of "hobby" in the title of this thread. All of our "traditional" hobbies are in deep trouble, particularly those that require a certain level of skill to be attained.

I worked in a school for 28 years and also announced auto racing on Friday and Saturday nights for 39 years. That gave me a pretty good idea as to what was happening. Virtually NO 12 to 25 year olds are involved in models or the real thing! They are "somewhere else" that is more trendy and easier to do. Instead of building models of the great sci-fi movies, they play a computer game of it!

I watched the kids at school stop building model cars, trains, and even the student parking lot emptied out of "hot" cars and filled up with plain Jap cars with a back seat full of speakers. At the speedways you saw little kids with their grandparents, and folks in their thirties the next youngest, but no teens or "twenty somethings" which used to be the backbone of auto racing.

"The times, they are a changing" is an old saying, but so true. I see a gigantic change coming in this country as the Baby Boomers get too old to participate or die off. Once that core group is gone, change will take years, but will spell the eventual doom to our "traditional" hobbies.

HOWEVER, I am not saying there is all gloom and doom in the future! We have at least twenty years to turn things around, or at least enjoy what may be looked back on as a great period in our hobbies. And we also have that much time to try to change the future. 

And as a sci-fi fan, there is always the idea that new technologies will make the future brighter for both us and the young folks. For instance, what effect will the slowly dropping prices for 3D printer technology have on the future of modeling? And what is coming beyond that?

Yes, things look bleak, but we ain't dead yet!:thumbsup:

Stumpy Stone in Ahia


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## jgoldsack (Apr 26, 2004)

This is exactly why I am encouraging my children to get into the hobby


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

Kids will not build anything anymore for 2 reasons. 

1- NO SKILLS were taught by parents, because they too had no skills. 

2- No kid will try to make anything for fear of failing.

This became obvious when I worked at a LHS in Burke VA in the late 1980's - 1990's.
Parents were doing their kids science projects, buying RC car kits and hiring one of our RC car guys to build it for them, etc.
Nobody wants to TRY to build something and heaven forbid LEARN SOMETHING in the process for fear of failing, and having to ask for help.
Parents would discourage their kids from any creative and technical endeavors. The dumbing down of America.


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## PixelMagic (Aug 25, 2004)

I just turned 30, and I feel like I'm one of the youngest doing this hobby. I don't know ANYONE my age that builds models. I also don't know anyone younger who does.


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

My new Stepson wants to build- he just not had anybody to show him yet. Last thing was an X-Wing, I taught him how to weather panels with washes and chalk-dust.

I do agree a lot of the kids these days are focused on immediate satisfaction, but do not agree with a blanket "Kids will not build anything anymore"- companies are trying to make model building more accessible for beginners with the snap-together prepaints. Those can be turned into some nice replicas with a little extra TLC...


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

Richard Baker said:


> My new Stepson wants to build- he just not had anybody to show him yet. Last thing was an X-Wing, I taught him how to weather panels with washes and chalk-dust.
> 
> I do agree a lot of the kids these days are focused on immediate satisfaction, but do not agree with a blanket "Kids will not build anything anymore"- companies are trying to make model building more accessible for beginners with the snap-together prepaints. Those can be turned into some nice replicas with a little extra TLC...


Speaking of snap together pre-paints,

Does anyone know the Brand and other info of those Japanese
trek kits that were under 20 inches long?

I'm interested in finding out their scale and other info.

I know they did a 1701-D that was prepainted and included lights.

I'm not sure if they did a TOS 1701, but inquiring minds want to know!


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## WOI (Jun 28, 2012)

I still build model kits,whenever I build a new one I consider it as 
a new mental challenge to enhance my talents not just as a model
builder but also as an artist.

Anyone who gives on it too easily is nothing but a slacker in my
book,here's a piece of advice to all of you.Don't get your folks or
anybody else to built them for you,just get off your duff and do it
yourself,learn from other modellers and their techniques of how 
they build their kits and gain some experience for yourself on
how to do it.

True you will make some mistakes when you are building,but that's
the only way you will improve your techniques in modeling a kit
when you learn from hard experience on how to do right and you gain
knowledge to improve your talents as a modeller as well as an artist
of anything when you learn from hard experience.

Only through that,your talents will improve when you don't give up
on something that will you give true pleasure in what you are creating
I promise you that.

Just for the record,I started building kits of my own most of my first
attemps and efforts to build them,they all stunk too,so don't you 
give that bunk that model making is too hard to do.


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

Chuck_P.R. said:


> Speaking of snap together pre-paints,
> 
> Does anyone know the Brand and other info of those Japanese
> trek kits that were under 20 inches long?


Bandai?


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## KUROK (Feb 2, 2004)

Yep, Bandai.
Those are up there on eBay for some good $$$.


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

I have all the Bandai Trek kits but they never produced the Galaxy Class or TOS ships. They made the NX, Voyager, 1701-E, 1701-Refit and a General Constitution Refit (with multiple names you could use). The Galaxy class was planned and I think got as far as prototyping but the line was cancelled before it went into production.
Another company made the 1701-D lighted prepaint, a friend has one, but I do not recall the name of the company.


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## Gemini1999 (Sep 25, 2008)

Every year, someone comes out with news of our hobby coming to an end... I dunno...there are more hobby shops in the Sacramento area than when I moved here. There was one long lived one that closed, but I know that there were a fair amount of people I know that had complaints about that particular shop. I would think that since that shop never learned to grow beyond what it originally was, it didn't survive. When you look at the model building hobby in general, we see new kits on the horizon all the time. If the hobby were indeed diminishing, you'd see model companies cutting back as well.

It may well end at some point in our future, but I don't see it ending in my lifetime.


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

It still seems to be going strong in Europe and Japan.


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

The surge in fascination with hand made is just around the 3D printing corner!


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## MEGA1 (Jul 18, 2000)

MadCap Romanian said:


> Yup. The whole world is playing video games. The hobby is dead. I've heard this for years. Anyone ever think hobby stores die off because ...
> 
> A) Poor Management
> B) Poor use of financial resources
> ...


Never could I have said it better myself! We've been hearing for 13 years that "hobbies are a dying product" and that it's a waste of money to be in this business. I have colleagues throughout the industry that show quite the contrary. Major distributors in this country have seen business increase this year, new manufacturers are appearing each week, and many existing stores are seeing an increase in business. The fact that many hobbyists are getting older is not necessarily an issue. Many of these guys are retiring and opening a hobby shop in their retirement. So we often see even MORE shops open.

The shops that close, like you said, are the ones that are not managing it properly. They're the ones that claim "the Internet killed all of my business."

If the Internet killed all business, shopping centers would be bare across the country, and the world for that matter. Internet kills businesses when those businesses don't adapt. AAA Hobbies is a local hobby shop located near us, and their store is not only beautiful, but they have continued to grow throughout the "economic turmoil" of the past few years.

All it takes is creativity, a love of the hobby, and a willingness to take risks and occasionally fail.

Oh yeah, and a genuine desire to better the industry helps too. Competition is all well and good, but to see a store rejoice in stealing customers from a competitor doesn't help anyone. Getting new customers is the only way for the entire industry to flourish, and that's what all hobby retailers should be aiming for.


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## J_Indy (Jan 28, 2013)

I think "creativity" is a key word here - not only for Hobby Shop owners, but for people who enjoy the hobby.

For instance, plopping down the price of a movie and popcorn/soda is a passive form of entertainment - you sit there and are fed the story on screen.

All well and good - but with the price of movies these days (esp IMAX) you could pick up some hobby stuff and be entertained for days.

But that requires more than just sitting in a chair. Depending on what you build, or even attempt to build, it may require a lot of different character traits.

That's why all the stuff people have built is all good - it builds character too. 

As long as there are folks who have fun doing that, hobby shops will continue.


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

IMO all good hobby shops should have a _small_ supply of out-of-production models; I just bought a Robocop car model on eBay that I would have paid nearly twice the price for had I seen it at my local hobby store. -Just a thought for the retailers.


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## MadCap Romanian (Oct 29, 2005)

Yeay! Mega listened to me!..well at least someone did. :thumbsup:

But seriously...I own Monster Hobbies, a small shop in High River, Alberta, Canada. 

Mega ownes a world-wide web store and even hosts a section in Hobby Talk. 

I won't deny that Mega has a larger audience than I do and probably makes better sales on a daily basis too. 

However, for a small towner HS and something that's pretty much 100% online...I can't see us stopping and with all these amalgamations of hobby marquee's and people like Round2, Revell, and 100 others out there putting forth the effort to continually bring out new and exciting model kits each month...well, how would they justify doing so if the trend was that "Hobbies are Dead"? Wouldn't you think they would phase out their kits and produce plastic coat hangers instead?

No! Surely they know that the market is still alive and the demograph is high enough to keep paying them. 



> I know of 3 McDonalds that closed in my area. Does that mean McDonalds is dying? No.


Too bad..I was hoping it was all over for them! :tongue:


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## Alien (Sep 5, 2001)

Just a comment from down under in New Zealand.
I live in Wellington (AKA The middle of Middle Earth) with a population of 200,000
(4.4 million total New Zealand population.) 
Even with the huge cost of model kits compared to the US (Shipping cost is the problem.) the hobby seems to be on the increase.

We have had just one straight hobby shop (There are toy shops etc as well. ) serving the Wellington City area for many years and about 6 months ago another one has popped up and seems to be doing well.
About 2 years ago one also opened 45 mintues north of the city (In a place called Paraparaumu. Try saying that three times fast!) and that seems to be doing OK too.

And the stores that I know and love around the rest of the country are still going strong. (Even the ones in Christchurch after suffering through the earthquakes a while ago.)

There is even a great on-line only company that sells model kits at good prices. 

So things are looking OK for the hobby here.

Alien


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

YES! That's what I like to hear!


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## Wattanasiri (Aug 15, 2010)

Y3a said:


> Kids will not build anything anymore for 2 reasons.
> 
> 1- NO SKILLS were taught by parents, because they too had no skills.
> 
> 2- No kid will try to make anything for fear of failing.


Number 1 resonated with me because my model building began with my father "showing me the ropes" when I was 5 or 6. This included shopping for the model plus the glue the paints and a paint brush. It took us the better part of an day to assemble a Monogram UH-1 Iroquois helicopter model and the next afternoon painting it. Those remain cherished memories more than 50 years later. "Parents" seem to have many reasons for not doing things like that with their children anymore.


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## MEGA1 (Jul 18, 2000)

MadCap Romanian said:


> Yeay! Mega listened to me!..well at least someone did. :thumbsup:
> 
> But seriously...I own Monster Hobbies, a small shop in High River, Alberta, Canada.
> 
> ...


And what's key is that it shouldn't matter who is or isn't bigger. MegaHobby is designed to sell to an international audience, while a LHS is designed to dominate its region, as it seems you surely have done. The key is not for me to say "Let me take all the customers from Monster Hobbies for myself." The key is for me to reach people who would have otherwise not been involved in hobbies, and turn them into customers -- some who might become customers of yours one day, or vice versa.


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

I will stare at new kits on line and go through the details, but when I hold a real box in my hand, feel it's weight and read the descriptions I am much more likely to buy it.

I never had anyone to show me how to build anything, my Mother is an artist so I learned painting techniques from her but everything else was trial and error- and there were a lot of errors (one reason I love the repops, so I get a second chance...).
I am teaching Ryan how to build kits, he is ten and very eager. He found out you could add lights and he really wants to do that soon.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

Richard Baker said:


> I have all the Bandai Trek kits but they never produced the Galaxy Class or TOS ships. They made the NX, Voyager, 1701-E, 1701-Refit and a General Constitution Refit (with multiple names you could use). The Galaxy class was planned and I think got as far as prototyping but the line was cancelled before it went into production.
> Another company made the 1701-D lighted prepaint, a friend has one, but I do not recall the name of the company.


No TOS 1701?

Jeez, it seems to be a trend with people producing replicas and kits
to do what is probably the most popular ship in the Sci-Fi universe
last.

What's up with that? That company that is doing twice monthly 
miniatures I believe still hasn't done a TOS 1701 either.

Thanks for the info, Richard, SteveR, and Kurok! :thumbsup:


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## Fozzie (May 25, 2009)

Chuck_P.R. said:


> What's up with that? That company that is doing twice monthly
> miniatures I believe still hasn't done a TOS 1701 either.


I suspect that they are holding that particular model till the very end of the series to keep people in the fold.


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## MadCap Romanian (Oct 29, 2005)

I didn't mean to compare us Mega - just meant to say that hobby shops can survive if they try!


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## Sparky (Feb 21, 2004)

MEGA1 said:


> Getting new customers is the only way for the entire industry to flourish, and that's what all hobby retailers should be aiming for.


With the incredible selection of highly accurate and well engineered kits and add-ons availible now, I am sure life long modelers are buying more that ever via internet and local hobby stores. But how does one grow the hobby to attact new (and presumably younger) buyers? Star Trek in syndication back in the early 70's is what drew me into the local S. S. Kresge department store to begin a lifelong hobby addiction. 

I've wondered if METV showing TOS Star Trek, Batman, and the Irwin Allen shows (Lost in Space, VTTBS) has helped create new modeling customers. Myself, I really wasn't familiar with Lost in Space and VTTBS, but I am now a regular Saturday Night viewer of these shows and enthusiastic buyer of the Moebius kits.


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## MadCap Romanian (Oct 29, 2005)

@ Sparky- 

It's hard to really tell what draws the younger audience into hobbies. It think that kids just see something they like and go for it. 

I have 2 young daughters, on in Kindergarden and the other in preschool. They learn about the world around them and they are always playing with toys and such, learning that a train makes a sound...cars move on their own..space shuttles can go to the moon...stuff like that. 

Some of these kids decide that they can't get enough of something..like Thomas the Tank Engine, for example, and they talk to their parents about buying them Thomas toys. After a while, the wooden Thomas toys aren't as exciting, so then they may discover something like the Bachmann Thomas sets in HO scale and get into model rail roading. One little guy came into my store tonight (Halloween Night) 5 times with both parents asking me 1 000 000 questions about trains. I think they will get started soon!

For others, they aren't interested in hobbies unless it becomes a game. This is why I also carry Warhammer and Rapid-Fire books. That way they turn their models into gaming pieces. They all want to paint and glue their models and make them look better than the other kids. they don't realize it, but their game is actually a hobby.

Other customers I deal with use to build models or wanted to as kids, but their parent's didn't allow it. So these people either come back to hobbying or start it at a later age. 

I find it's all people's attitude. The good news is that none of the hobby manufactures are slowing down and new oversaes ones are making kits every day, like Zvezda, Ace, A-Model and more!


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## MadCap Romanian (Oct 29, 2005)

@ Mega1 - Getting new people into the hobby is only 1 aim..keeping them in it is the real goal...as well as keeping the continuing hobbyist happy enough that he stays in the hobby and, hopefully, shops from you. ("You" - not specific to Mega, but meaning anyone who is a retailer.)


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

MadCap Romanian said:


> Getting new people into the hobby is only 1 aim..keeping them in it is the real goal...as well as keeping the continuing hobbyist happy enough that he stays in the hobby and, hopefully, shops from you.


Free 1/1000 Enterprises on certain days... get them hooked.... 
:lol:


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## MadCap Romanian (Oct 29, 2005)

Sure Chrisisall - as long as you're going to pay that bill, I don't mind giving them away! 

Another plan is to look into the Revell Make and Take program and offer "Build Days" using that plan and offer kits for $5-$10 a person.


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## MEGA1 (Jul 18, 2000)

@MadCap

I agree 100%. It's really difficult to figure out how to get kids interested in toys/building things to move over to the hobby industry. We need unique items and a way for beginners to get in. Revell's snap kits are a brilliant way to do so, and I know of a program they are creating for next year that will help get kids into the industry even more, that seems very promising.

In terms of trains, the model railroading industry is missing beginner products, to build a train layout is thousands of dollars, and the choices are very VERY limited if you just want a simple, inexpensive layout. Someone needs to make the "snap kit" of the railroading industry, so that we can all get young kids involved much more easily.

If you're intersted, look at Airfix's new product they were showing at iHobby (http://www.airfix.com/shop/quick-build/), it's called "Quick Build." Basically it's Legos (without actually calling it that), but when the whole thing is done being snapped together, it looks like a completed model, none of those annoying nubs sticking out like normal Legos. We saw it in Schaumburg and the product was brilliant -- you should definitely look into carrying these in the New Year when they're released. It's a great way to get kids involved.


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

That Airfix "Quick-Build" is a great idea- biggest problem with the Lego is that even the very large kits still look like a stack of bricks. These have a finished look of a regular kit...


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## cody6268 (Oct 31, 2013)

I am into both Lego and model kits. I usually build Lego, but when I feel that I'm up to the challenge, I buy a Snap Tite kit, and I have a few cheap more advanced kits, a Revell Model A, an Italieri Iwo Jima Flag Raisers, and a Lindberg US Navy jet, forgot what model it is of, that I have not assembled, and will wait until my skills are of the level to complete them without help.


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## MadCap Romanian (Oct 29, 2005)

Those look interesting, but don't they take the skill out of building models?


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## MEGA1 (Jul 18, 2000)

MadCap Romanian said:


> Those look interesting, but don't they take the skill out of building models?


It's not about replacing modeling with these Quick Builds, but it's more about finding a way to turn a percentage of the millions of Lego-building kids into model-building kits. Lego to snap kit is a slight stretch, but Lego to Quick Build to snap kit might make the transition a lot more natural. It's far from a "model", but if it's a way to get kids into your store and interested in a military model, what's to say they won't pick up a simply Revell kit next, then maybe a beginner Tamiya kit?


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

In order for someone to move from "easy" to "more difficult," there has to be a benefit: the more difficult task has to fill a need that couldn't be filled by the easy task. Back in the day, we built stuff (difficult) because we couldn't buy a detailed toy (easy), or we couldn't get the toy at all. So "detail" was the benefit of the more difficult kit-building task, compared to the easier toy-buying task. 

So if we could get kids to appreciate "detail" or "fidelity", we're in.

Another benefit might be "bigger:" we could afford a medium-sized TOS E collectible, but could we afford a really big one? Well, we can afford a big _kit_ of the TOS E compared to a same-sized collectible.

Just trying to figure out how to _sell_ the idea of kit-building.

(edit: Lovin' the QuickBuild -> snap-together -> glue injection -> garage kit path. I can see the progression from Lego to QuickBuild once the kid gets older and wants something that looks a little more like the real thing.)


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## Cajjunwolfman (Nov 15, 2004)

My 2 cents worth.

Always an interesting topic on getting people in the hobby.

My former local model club (long ago and far away) and I did a lot of discussion, and surveys about this topic. Our group was interested in growing the club with new members. 

I spoke personally with a lot parents about this subject. Especially single parent households. The parents told me some kids were interested in building models. Real models with decals, airbrush use, just like the adults. The cost of the kit, tools or equipment was not that big a factor. Other pursuits of their offspring are as much or more expensive. Price a video game, dancing lessons, music, or sports for comparison. The area that parent said model building as a hobby was lacking was follow-up courses or training. What do you do with the student after the first make and take? With few exceptions there is no organized or further tier courses in building, detailing, weathering , airbrushing. These kids are not like us. They are not going to learn on their own. I know a lot of adults with extra income who would also like to attend those courses. Of course these items are offered at WF, IPMS Nationals, Military Miniature shows. These shows really are for people already in the hobby. These shows do not reach the local population. Something the LHS can do is needed. 

If you want to see a real example of marketing done well to expand a product, go to a Games Workshop location. (To MadCap's point by the way). You can buy a miniature there, the people will help you paint it and let you use their paint/brushes as well as provide the expert teaching. They have an entire system with a video, paints, brushes, tools which coordinates together including their line of figures. You can follow their system and get decent results quickly. 

I am in a different model club now. I will not discuss them at great length. There are some world class modelers and figure painters in this group. However as far as getting kids involved and mentoring them. Not gonna happen with this group. 

Nothing like a support structure of this kind exists for scale model building. Sure there are one or two videos with some obscure kit. No real tie in or following system from start to finish. 

IMHO that is where we are failing to expand the hobby.


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

Cajjunwolfman said:


> Nothing like a support structure of this kind exists for scale model building. Sure there are one or two videos with some obscure kit. No real tie in or following system from start to finish.


Excellent point. If it weren't for my dad, the model railroader, I wouldn't have started the hobby at all. So if a kid doesn't have a parent in the hobby, he/she needs a regular support system outside the family.


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## fire91bird (Feb 3, 2008)

Once someone is introduced to the hobby, it seems that it's the subject matter that sustains the interest. The US manufacturers, for the most part, seem to be content to focus a particular age group - not that I'm complaining - they've come out with subjects lately I could only dream of a few years ago. But it seems that if they want to capture the imagination of the younger crowd, they're going to have to cater to their interests more and these might be subjects we may have no interest in. (There might be some overlap in certain video game subjects, though). I also can't help but think that cost is also a factor. It was mentioned that the price is comparable to video games, but really, when I was younger, models were really inexpensive. I just don't know that kids today can buy models on a whim like we could at that age. Plus, if you messed one up, not such a big deal and a learning experience for the next one. Availablity was also a factor back then, I mean models were everywhere, but if the subject is interesting enough, people will find it.


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## MadCap Romanian (Oct 29, 2005)

> Plus, if you messed one up, not such a big deal and a learning experience for the next one.


Actually, I find this to be one of the biggest hold-backs for both parents and kids alike...this weird "fear" of not building their first model professionally. 

At the old location, (Monster Hobbies, Pre-Flood 2013) I use to have a big showcase in the front window with a bunch of my models on display to keep some interest in the town. 

I usually heard people saying "I could never build and paint that good." Even though I explained to them that it took me 30+ years and building or painting models practically every day, to get as good as I am today, that I didn't just pick up a model at 8 years old and instantly paint it "pro" and won a gold medal at an IPMS the following day...they still showed a lack in their own confidence and just didn't want to try. 

The big challenge to kids today is to overcome this "Fear" of trying to gain skills. Maybe we were impatient in our day as kids ourselves, but it just seems to me more than ever that if kids can't get something done to perfection instantaneously, they just give up. 

However, when I was a kid, I remember my Dad getting a Monogram 1/25th scale Masserati car model with the opening hood, trunk and doors and he was going to show me how to build it. This kit was a skill 3 or greater...if they had that rating back then...which they didn't. 

Anyway, I waited and waited for him to show me how to do the model and I think he was busy with work projects, or whatever..so I started to build it myself without his help. 

Glue Bomb...yes...unpainted..yes...doors permenatly glued shut..no. 

I think I still have some of that model (I turned it into a Bottle Rocket test mobile by gluing on some 1/12th scale WW1 SPAD wings to it..but never actually lit off the dual bottle rockets underneath).

Anyway..to remedy some of this, I was in the process of building a duplicate of the old AMT 1932 Ford Hot Rod 3 window coupe I built at 11 years old. 

The original car was painted yellow with a flat black top. The paint was applied with a brush and you could see the streaks and some of the brown plastic underneath and in places I missed. Also, the car was a "Circle Track Racer" so I removed the fenders..but I didn't know about cutting the firewall in half, so the body sloped back and never really sat on the frame rails like it should have. I also covered the car with as many decals as I could...some from the kit itself, some "sponsor" decals from the spares box, and some from my Dad's airplane models as well. 

When I made the duplicate model (Still haven't finished it yet...) I wanted to show how my skills improved on the same subject. I spray painted it with Tremclad Yellow and brushed in the flat black roof insert. I used a few coats and you can't tell that it was brush painted. I also cut the firewall at the right location, so the duplicate sits level with the frame. The interior was sprayed with Tremclad Flat White and steering wheel rim brush painted metallic green, like my original. Trying to match up all the decals was a challenge, but I got as close as I could to the original. Some sponsors are different..but then again, 30 years later should grant some new ones anyway. 

I was going to display the two model kits side by side in the store display case to show people that even I, the proud hobby shop owner, came from humble beginings..that not all my models started out perfect either. 

I am proud of both the original and the duplicate. They remind me of where I started and show where I am now. 

However, it does upset me when people don't even want to attempt a kit for fear of making 1 little mistake. It's like they don't want to learn, or something. If they're like this with everything, then how can you get them into the hobby at all? 

Maybe the hobby just takes a certain type of person?


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## 1966TVBATMOBILE (Mar 21, 2013)

My Hobby store just doesn't seem to carry what I want so I have to resort to finding stuff elsewhere. I build models but Im Also into customizing DieCast cars. Sure I can find some model and RC stuff but what about parts for my custom models and custom die-casts? Its a shame that my local hobby shop looses so much of my business because they only seem to care about RC stuff now-a-days. 

Here is a list of things they loose my business on weekly.

Copper rod.

HO Scale decals.<--Good ones. 

2/56 Taps and screws.<--at a reasonable price. Not 4 screws for $6. LoL I get a box of 100 for $6

Small bits and tool sets used for small button head screws. Holly cow. $20 for a crappy set? Crazy talk. I got a whole set for $10 at home depo

Small ZAMAC parts and figures.<--at a good price.

Bottom line is if they don't care to carry the stuff I use then they loose all my business. Ive asked my store to carry certain things but the answer I usually get is its a a special order. Dude this is a specialty store. Order that stuff in and put it on the shelf. Sorry but its been a wast of time checking in every week to see if they started carrying something I use so often. My store has lost big bucks BC of that one simple reason. Catering to my special needs. 

The hardware and arts/craft stores get more of my business now because they actually have the stuff I want and I'm not paying an arm and a leg for it. Building stuff from scratch isn't easy but looking for the stuff I need shouldn't be just as challenging either.


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

When my LHS does not stock something he is very good about finding it and getting it for me, along with a couple of others to see if it could prove popular. He has even discounted Plastruct special orders for me because he felt bad they were not available and I had to wait for them.


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

I think that a lot of what we do is more "special order" than it used to be. If there are fewer guys buying something that we want, we eventually reach a threshold when that thing stops becoming something to stock regularly and becomes a special order. 

An LHS gets fewer customers coming in than the big hardware/craft stores do, and it can't buy in volume like the big stores can, so it costs more for the LHS to keep something in inventory, and it's more of a risk.

If I want something that the LHS doesn't carry, I go to a craft/hardware store as you do, or I ask the LHS to special order. I wouldn't expect a small store to stock something for one customer unless he came in weekly (or monthly, like a magazine) for the _same_ thing (not different things).

1966, you might want to make the first move, and if you want the same thing regularly, why not order it in advance? I'm just saying that times have changed, margins are thinner, customers are fewer, and I don't expect an LHS to take the same inventory risks that they used to take back in our day.


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## 1966TVBATMOBILE (Mar 21, 2013)

My hobby shop is called Hobby Town. I wont mention the location because I don't want to burn any bridges just in case. 

Like many people here I have many interests. I'm also a Die cast collector. Years ago I got into collecting trucks and cars that you see in HO train scenes. I like Model Trains also. Boy do I have too many hobby's. LoL Anyways I eventually got into customizing and restoring die cast vehicles. I used to find really cool vehicles at Hobby Town but the past couple years its become imposable to find any decent die casts there. They have an employee that sorts all the Hot Wheels and grabs the Treasure Hunts. That`s a huge Strike against them. Hearing employees tell me that I wont find anything good in the die cast section because of their fellow worker taking them is all bad. They lost me as a die cast customer and because of the other reasons I mentioned before they lost me as a quad copter customer. Hobby's are expensive. Loyalty is free.

On the bright side they sell Rubik's Cube`s. Maybe I will go give them another shot since the stickers on my cube are wearing out.


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## mrstumpy (Oct 5, 2013)

*RE: Not good news for our hobby*

I worked part time in an area hobby shop for 20 years and the last two years they were open, I was full time. Despite it being a pretty good size shop, the owners couldn't possibly stock everything, but tried. They went out of their way to try to find and order items for customers.

Here in the "Rust Belt" of Eastern Ohio, the economic vice began to tighten in the early 2000's. As things that had been around since the late 1800's started to close, our customers started to dry up. The owners began to allow stock that was very slow moving to run out and not restock. Folks coming in the door had less to spend, and Internet commerce was really getting reved up. The economy eventually crushed the shop in late 2009 and they went out of business deeply in debt.

As for the refrain "I can't do that," I was teaching a "free" kit bashing and scratch building class to customers on weekends. I focused on very simple projects that cost little money and required few specialty materials or tools, but taught the basics. With lots of encouragement, this format turned quite a few "I can't do that" folks into budding modelers by showing them that they need not build contest quality models, and that no master modeler started out a master.

A lot of hobby shops today can no longer stock the items or give the extra services that they once did, they're too busy fighting a losing financial battle. Some owners have sold their stores to "investors" or "quick buck" types who don't know the business or the customers, and many don't give a damn.

This is not to say there aren't good hobby shops that are alive and thriving! But they have to be in an area with a LARGE population and be willing (and able) to re-invest in stock and give good customer service. Otherwise, they are doomed.

Stumpy in Ahia


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## Antimatter (Feb 16, 2008)

I've said for years now that once this generation of model builders takes a dirt nap, the hobby will be dead too. So goes the same for Ham Radio and other hobbies.


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## jgoldsack (Apr 26, 2004)

Antimatter said:


> I've said for years now that once this generation of model builders takes a dirt nap, the hobby will be dead too. So goes the same for Ham Radio and other hobbies.


Only if we do not pass on the hobby to the next generation.


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## Proper2 (Dec 8, 2010)

I don't think so. I think folks young and old will always be interested in making miniatures.


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## MadCap Romanian (Oct 29, 2005)

12 year old came in today for some paint for his Hasagawa Air Cobra he bought off me last week. He'll probably be back once he finishes painting it.

Is that encouraging?:thumbsup:

I would say that with the present age/life expectancy, that the hobby could survive another 96 years from now.


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## 1966TVBATMOBILE (Mar 21, 2013)

Sorry about my last posts sounding all anti Hobby shop and stuff. Im not. I think hobby`s will be around as long as Humanoids are. Cavemen probably were talented artist that painting and sculpted little dinosaur creatures out of sticks and clay. 

If ancient aliens really do exist (I don't thinks so) then the cavemen were probably into science fiction Modeling. LoL. I figure the answer to the age old question "will modeling be around for generations to come?" As long as we have half a brain and hands then Yes. Maybe in ten years our children will be so board with technology that the "in trend" will shift back to arts and crafts. Who knows IDK

Just keep crafts around the house for when your kids get tired of watching youtube on their tablet. Instead of planning a weekend get-out, go grab a model with your kid and see if you guys can finish it before Monday. Build a R.C rock crawler. I also think expressing our concerns about this matter online rather than inscribing them onto clay tablets could be another factor. LoL.

Thanks.


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## Antimatter (Feb 16, 2008)

1966TVBATMOBILE said:


> Sorry about my last posts sounding all anti Hobby shop and stuff. Im not. I think hobby`s will be around as long as Humanoids are. Cavemen probably were talented artist that painting and sculpted little dinosaur creatures out of sticks and clay.


Cavemen didn't have Internet, video games, 3000 HD channels, Iphone, Ipad and all the other crap taking up our lives. My hobby shop has 3000 square feet. Used to have models all over. Now they are a few shelves.


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

MEGA1 said:


> @MadCap
> 
> I agree 100%. It's really difficult to figure out how to get kids interested in toys/building things to move over to the hobby industry. We need unique items and a way for beginners to get in. Revell's snap kits are a brilliant way to do so, and I know of a program they are creating for next year that will help get kids into the industry even more, that seems very promising.
> 
> ...


If you make the beginner kits too cheap, and they are unreliable you'll lose them too.


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

MadCap Romanian said:


> 12 year old came in today for some paint for his Hasagawa Air Cobra he bought off me last week. He'll probably be back once he finishes painting it.
> 
> Is that encouraging?:thumbsup:
> 
> I would say that with the present age/life expectancy, that the hobby could survive another 96 years from now.


Ask him if he wants to DISPLAY IT IN YOUR SHOP! Boosts his ego, his friends may see it and attract more business.


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## mrstumpy (Oct 5, 2013)

*RE:Not good news for our hobby*

I get the feeling that we're talking about two different things here. Will our "specific" hobbies as they are now survive? Or will construction hobbies as a whole survive?

I think that our "traditional" hobbies the way we think of them will probably die with us. But new interests may grow up to replace them.

For instance, model railroading as we do it today WILL die. But what happens to the train hobby when today's children are seeing magnetic levitation trains running daily? And they can use electromagnetic operation just as the real thing does because the technology will exist cheaply?

Being specific to Sci-fi modeling, it has always been working years, decades, centuries in the future. What happens when the future catches up? Just as my generation built models of NASA rockets and space craft during the sixties, perhaps there will be a movement in the future to build models of "antique" space craft? Will there be kids just born today who will someday be doing masterful dioramas of the "vintage" Moon Landings? Or the first landings of humans on Mars because it's "historic?"

As noted a few posts ago, we humans have been building models forever. Today DaVinci's modeling is known as "art." Call it whatever is the popular name of the day, but it will always exist. So while we can foresee the end of many of today's hobbies, people making smaller versions of real life things will probably never end. Even things only imagined by storytellers.:thumbsup:

Stumpy in Ahia


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## f1steph (Jan 9, 2003)

Building any kind of model takes time. We now live in a world that doesn't like to wait for something, we want it RIGHT NOW!!!!!!. That's why the Diecast Industry is super big. Ask any kid or 20-30 year old adult and give them 2 choices: built your 1967 Mustang GT500 model OR go to a Diecast Store and buy one that's already built (and beautiful BTW). The answer will be close to 8 /10 will go and buy that diecast Mustang, put on display and then, they'll go play Assssin's Creed 4 right after. If some people thinks that's the way to go, that's fine with me. But We, old modelers, are from the old school. We love to spend all kinds of long hours on a model kit, painting if a per the real thing, modifying it to make it look super nice and once it's finished, we are proud of that darn model. How can you be proud of a diecast on display....


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## PixelMagic (Aug 25, 2004)

f1steph said:


> Ask any kid or 20-30 year old adult...


I am 30, and I am building the 1/350th scale TOS Enterprise, and I have dozens of unbuilt models to tackle in my closet.


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## MadCap Romanian (Oct 29, 2005)

@f1Steph -


> That's why the Diecast Industry is super big.


Actually, ten years ago the Die-Cast market was big. Most of my wholesalers these days both in the US and Canada are having a really hard time selling die-cast models. People don't want them anymore and are now looking to build the kits...just like us "Old Timers".


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## f1steph (Jan 9, 2003)

PixelMagic said:


> I am 30, and I am building the 1/350th scale TOS Enterprise, and I have dozens of unbuilt models to tackle in my closet.


Well you're in the 2/10 class. Promote your hobby to anyone under your age and that will keep the model industry happy... and us also 'cause the industry will keep making model kits..... That nice to see a guy your age building TOS Enterprise. I though only old farts like us (I'm 46) are interrested in a 1960's TV show. That's another good news..... So maybe there's hope that our hobby will survive after all. 

I'm quite surprized that the Die-Cast industry isn't going so well. Here in Montreal, lots of shopping center has a Diecast store. But I can't say if they are actually making money but if they are still there after 1-2 years, I guess they are able to pay their expensive rent. But I have to say that the Diecast I've seen are really pieces of art, they are very nice and detailed.


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