# Question for Paragrafix regarding J2 photoetch



## Tim Nolan (Jul 9, 2008)

I have a question for the fine folks at Paragrafix, or anyone else who may have used thier awesome photoetch set yet.

I am currently starting on the main control console. I have succesfully removed all of the necessary plastic to install the etched parts. (They fit perfectly by the way!) I am planning on lighting the console with LED's and fiber optics. The .25mm fibers fit exact in the holes in the etched faces, wonderful. My question is, do you think it's possible to use the decals you included, which are fantastic in detail, and still run my fibers thru the faces of the consoles and computer fronts? Has anyone tried it yet? I'd love to achieve the background detail and color of the decals, but still have my fibers there for lighting. 

The etched plate faces are wonderful, and I could paint them. I've used photoetched parts for years, but I don't think I've ever used a photoetch set that had decals to go over it before, so this is kind of new even for me! 

Any advice? By the way, I would highly recommend this set. It's incredible! 
I'm combining it with the TSDS vinyl and decal sets as well, I think the finish is going to be just great!


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## XMAN64 (Dec 30, 2009)

Tim .....I would love to see pics of your progress. I bought this set also and am anxious to see other builders results.


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## Paulbo (Sep 16, 2004)

Hi Tim,

That shouldn't be a problem - what I'd do is mount the PE, run the fiber optics, paint your primer and base color(s), snip the fibers, then attach the decals.

I think you *may* run into some trouble if you're going to put the decals on before doing the optics. 

Potential problem 1) mangling the decals when trying to punch holes through them for the fibers.

Potential problem 2) scratching the decals off when snipping the fibers.

Potential problem 3) not having the decals seat properly without the inclusion of Kristal Klear or some other material in the holes that would contain the fibers.

Of course I could just be being overly paranoid about this.


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## Tim Nolan (Jul 9, 2008)

Are the decals made for the light to pass through? I guess I should have asked that as well! So, even if I didn't run fibers, would light from LED's light them up as well, or no?

I'm at the beginning of this build, but I will be photographing it in detail, because it may end up being in a magazine article, so I'll post progress shots as I go along. I opted to keep the kits clear console inserts for backing the etched parts. I ground the raised detail off first with my Dremel, then hand sanded it as smooth as possible. I think it will help to diffuse the light nicely and provide a sturdy backing as well. I used a small "soft tip" style Dremel insert to remove most of the raised detail inside the upper computer consoles, then went in with my X-Acto blade and scraped teh rest away. It was really easy, and the etched inserts just have some much more detail. They will also provide a nice template to drill thru for the fiber optics strands. I love this stuff.......


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## miniature sun (May 1, 2005)

Personally I wouldn't bother with fibre optics and just rely on white led's to provide the light.
If you build them into a small box of styrene on the rear of the panel and have them pointing side on rather than facing the panel, you'll find that they will create enough light to bounce around inside the box and diffuse through the perforations in the brass.
Then just fill the holes in the brass with Kristal Kleer and apply the decals.
Here's some examples from my Flying Sub to illustrate this....

Light boxes with LED's...










Installed on the rear of the panel and covered in adhesive foil to block light leaks...










Panel painted and decal applied...










The effect when lit...


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## teslabe (Oct 20, 2007)

I also recommend Paul's PE and plan to do the B-205 control heads with the .25mm FO I bought years ago. I was so happy to see it fit through the holes.
It looks like it may take about a month per head if done right.......:freak: I too
was not sure if I should put on the decal first and use a pin to pierce it. What do think Paul? I don't want to distroy it......


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## Tim Nolan (Jul 9, 2008)

That looks really great! Man, is this stuff fun or what?! We are livin' in good times for model builders! 

Well, here's the deal. Randy at VoodooFx is doing a board for this project which will be used in illuminating all of the computers and consoles. It will provide intermitent blinking patterns running out to several different colored LED/Fiber bundles. There will be quite a bit of "activity" going on with these face plates!! I'm trying to "one-up" myself on this project. I know it's going to take forever, but it's something I want to do.


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## teslabe (Oct 20, 2007)

miniature sun said:


> Personally I wouldn't bother with fibre optics and just rely on white led's to provide the light.
> If you build them into a small box of styrene on the rear of the panel and have them pointing side on rather than facing the panel, you'll find that they will create enough light to bounce around inside the box and diffuse through the perforations in the brass.
> Then just fill the holes in the brass with Kristal Kleer and apply the decals.
> Here's some examples from my Flying Sub to illustrate this....
> ...


IMHO, Paul's detail on these are so fantastic that they have to be done right. All the upper holes filled with FO and sorted, then controled by an eight LED blinky light circuit, just like the real thing.


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## Tim Nolan (Jul 9, 2008)

teslabe said:


> I also recommend Paul's PE and plan to do the B-205 control heads with the .25mm FO I bought years ago. I was so happy to see it fit through the holes.
> It looks like it may take about a month per head if done right.......:freak: I too
> was not sure if I should put on the decal first and use a pin to pierce it. What do think Paul? I don't want to distroy it......


This is what I had in mind to do originally......It's risky, but we can always buy more decals right?


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## teslabe (Oct 20, 2007)

Tim Nolan said:


> This is what I had in mind to do originally......It's risky, but we can always buy more decals right?


I hope so, but even if the decals don't work and we have to paint them, I think they are going to look sweet.....:thumbsup:


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## Tim Nolan (Jul 9, 2008)

*Etch install update*

OK, last night, I had a bit of time and started working on the upper console panels. Needless to say, I learned what NOT to do! I had the etched panels in place, and using a #80 drill bit in my Dremel, I started drilling thru the etch panels and into the plastic part so I can run the fiber optics. Six holes in, I'm starting to realize this is going to be a problem. As per usual, plastic builds on the bit every time you go thru, so you have to stop and rake it off the bit, so the next hole isn't bigger than the first. On a larger sturdier bit, it's not really a problem, I do it all the time. I cleaned the bit a few times, and on the sixth round it broke. There was also a buildup of plastic on the back of the etch panel, which cleaned off, but I couldn't imagine having to do this for like 250 holes in the entire console.

On to PLAN B! I used a cutting tip, and hollowed out the upper panels, leaving a "framework" around the edge of it inside for the etched panel to adhere to. After about 30 minutes, I had all three panels cleaned out, and the panels fit neatly inside with all the holes free and clear to run the fibers thru. The backs of these panels are seperate pieces, so I should be able to drill thru the bottom to run the fiber bundle down under the main console, and hide it all once the backing is in place. Much easier! 

I'll start building the tubes for the LED and fibers this weekend. I got a call from Randy at VoodooFx yesterday, all of my lighting kits are ready and will ship today! I'm stoked to get this thig going!


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## Paulbo (Sep 16, 2004)

I'm glad you realized the easier way to do the installation, Tim! I can't imagine going through and drilling all those holes - especially with a Dremel which could have ended up damaging the etch if you weren't super-careful. (I usually use a pin-vise when drilling for optics.)

I can't wait to see pics.

Oh, I don't think I (or anyone else) answered this previously - the decals should not cause much if any light degredation when placed over the fibers.


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## teslabe (Oct 20, 2007)

Tim, I think you made the right chose, I've looked long and hard at how best to do this and knew the first thing that had to go was the plastic face plate. But even with that gone I'm not sure if I'll have enough room for all that FO. I'm still milling over the thought of scratch building the B-205 boxes to give me a little more room to make the bend. Plus, I can better "pot" the fiber with epoxy to not only hold the fiber but also reinforce the PE face plate. Remember, it's very soft and pron the bending.......:drunk:


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## Paulbo (Sep 16, 2004)

Also, if you'll only have some of the lights blinking, perhaps you could have the static lights with "stubs" of FO using the B205 box as the light box to illuminate them, and have the blinking lights with full length FO that exits the box to separate light sources. This would cut down the number of FO that would be bent and exiting the box.


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## Tim Nolan (Jul 9, 2008)

Well, the .25 mil fibers are actually really flexible and fine, so I don't think clearance will be a huge problem, but I will find out soon enough I guess! (Even the .50 I used in Robby the Robot got some severe bends, and it works great!) I have a 9 port board coming from Randy at VoodooFx, that will randomly but constantly fire in no particular order. I'm using probably 4 ports for clear and the rest for multi colors. This will feed to all of the areas around the ship with blinking lights. I'll be using the 25/50 and even some 75 mil. strands throughout the build. If this works properly, you may see Randy offer this board in the future for sale along with the others.


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## Tim Nolan (Jul 9, 2008)

Paulbo said:


> I'm glad you realized the easier way to do the installation, Tim! I can't imagine going through and drilling all those holes - especially with a Dremel which could have ended up damaging the etch if you weren't super-careful. (I usually use a pin-vise when drilling for optics.)
> 
> Dude, if it can't be done with something motorized, I'm not doing it!!! LOL! :freak:


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## XMAN64 (Dec 30, 2009)

Great kit ...great thread.....this is my first time working with photoetch, so I want to make sure that I get it right. Has anyone else got any photos that they can share to help enlightened the less experienced?


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## teslabe (Oct 20, 2007)

XMAN64 said:


> Great kit ...great thread.....this is my first time working with photoetch, so I want to make sure that I get it right. Has anyone else got any photos that they can share to help enlightened the less experienced?


Please stay tuned......


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## bradb (May 22, 2008)

miniature sun said:


> Personally I wouldn't bother with fibre optics and just rely on white led's to provide the light.


Nice work. The problem is that this doesn't look right to me - using fiber optics on the control panels (B205?) is the only way to go. You really need a number of blinking LEDs to get the proper effect.

Brad.


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## Tim Nolan (Jul 9, 2008)

Hang in there! I'll take more photos this weekend as I work on these parts! I am definitely using the fiber optics as planned! (On the whole ship for that matter!)


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## skinnyonce (Dec 17, 2009)

Tim Nolan said:


> Paulbo said:
> 
> 
> > I'm glad you realized the easier way to do the installation, Tim! I can't imagine going through and drilling all those holes - especially with a Dremel which could have ended up damaging the etch if you weren't super-careful. (I usually use a pin-vise when drilling for optics.)
> ...


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## miniature sun (May 1, 2005)

bradb said:


> Nice work. The problem is that this doesn't look right to me - using fiber optics on the control panels (B205?) is the only way to go. You really need a number of blinking LEDs to get the proper effect.
> 
> Brad.


Thanks Brad...actually I see what you mean about the blinking lights...fibre optics are probably the only way to go with that, I was just happy to have some static lighting, I'll give that a go on my next one....

Iain


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## teslabe (Oct 20, 2007)

miniature sun said:


> Thanks Brad...actually I see what you mean about the blinking lights...fibre optics are probably the only way to go with that, I was just happy to have some static lighting, I'll give that a go on my next one....
> 
> Iain







Hi Iain, I hope you didn't think I was dissing your work, far from it, I think you did a fantastic job on your FS.......:thumbsup: But for the nuts like me, who have to go over the top on this build, I would be doing wrong, the fine detail Paul put onto the B-205 face plates, if I did populate each hole with fiber. Here is a cool video of the "Behind the scene", Lost in Space Forever.
Look at how bad the B-205's look when block lighting is used......:drunk: I love the video though, it's just cool, I hope you all enjoy.......:wave:


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## miniature sun (May 1, 2005)

teslabe said:


> Hi Iain, I hope you didn't think I was dissing your work, far from it, I think you did a fantastic job on your FS.......:thumbsup: But for the nuts like me, who have to go over the top on this build, I would be doing wrong, the fine detail Paul put onto the B-205 face plates, if I did populate each hole with fiber. QUOTE]
> 
> No worries ...my FS build has been something of an experiment for me and I've already got some new ideas for my next build involving more animated lighting...that's always assuming I get the FS finished...


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## Tim Nolan (Jul 9, 2008)

Well, last night I sat and cut 100 of the 147 fibers that will be needed for EACH faceplate. It became real apparent, IT AIN'T GONNA' WORK! LOL. Way to much bundle for that space. So, on to PLAN C. I will probably use about half the holes more or less, with the fibers lit by a bright white LED. I will use a 1.5mm soft white LED to illuminate the entire inside of the box and the empty holes, and hopefully the bright whites will show thru while blinking. I'll have to build one first. I'm waiting on an order of LED's to come in next week, so will have to wait until then to try it. Keep watching.


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

I plan to light the backsides of the photo-etch but I'm fine with not sequencing lights. The still Photos will look just fine.


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## kdaracal (Jan 24, 2009)

Nice job, Tim. Can't wait to see more.......Thanks for sharing!


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## XMAN64 (Dec 30, 2009)

So half of the lights will be static and will be lit from inside the b-205 boxes and the rest of the lights will be lit from the full length Fiber optics ........Here's a thought ! .....why not use a blinking light inside the b-205 box as well?...then you will have a blinking effect from two sources..this way nothing is static.


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## Paulbo (Sep 16, 2004)

Very cool idea Xavier. Great job of thinking outside the box. Hmmm. Must think about this some more.


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## XMAN64 (Dec 30, 2009)

Thanks.


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