# Bummer....Looks like Lindberg's closing!



## SUNGOD

Just read it over on Cult TV Man's blog.


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## MadCap Romanian

Can't be true. I was talking to Ernie Pet just 2 months ago...he was retiring, but the company was still going strong. If it is true, then that really sucks!


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## tr7nut

*Yes and no...*

When i was in the wholesale hobby business years ago, the Lindberg reps and company in general was VERY out of touch with the market. They have had a mediocre at best product line for more than 30 years now with VERY FEW exceptions. The Jurrassic Park T-Rex and Raptor kits, the ship and alien from Independence Day, and a few of the IMC car kits that they have re-marketed in the past 15 years or so. Not sure if they have all the Pyro molds or not, do seem to have quite a few anyway. I spoke to them recently about the Stage Ghost kit that Yamma brought up a few weeks back, the monster kits, monster rod kits etc... I could almost hear the yawn on the other end of the phone. It has ALWAYS been this way with them. Management seemed to think that THEY KNEW what the market wanted, even more than the market itself. Well guys, MAYBE NOT. It's always sad to me to see another bit or our hobby history slip away. I do feel sure that those who are supplying such great new and old stuff to us now will probably pick up the molds that are worth having so that those kits don't dissapear. To those smart folks with money enough to do something along these lines, DON'T FORGET the Monitor and Merrimac molds from Pyro. They have been around for a hundred years, but they are the only kits of those subjects available.  IF this is true, and i don't really doubt it R.I.P. Lindberg. I used to love getting a Mini Lindy on Sunday as a kid so the folks could get in a nap after Church.


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## jbond

Consistently the lousiest model company out there...but a grand old tradition of lousiness! I actually remember being pretty shocked that the ID4 fighter was as good as it was considering the source but their other kits have always been the clunkiest things out there. I do hope someone picks up the Pyro molds and the older space stuff from them--at least they got the space station and Mars ship out before they went under...


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## Auroranut

Maybe Atlantis could stick their fingers in this pie.... they've already mentioned the Laramie Stage Ghost (I'm hoping like crazy they find a chrome sprue to duplicate!!) so maybe they have access to the old Pyro molds.
As far as the machinery goes it'd be great to see stuff like Ghost Rider, Gladiator, General, Diplomat, etc. make it back!!
Aren't Lindberg one of the last manufacturers to mold all their kits in the States???? I wonder what'll happen to all the plant and machinery if they do go under??

Chris.


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## xsavoie

Ley's hope some manufacturer will buy their molds for futurekit releases.They sell many interestng kits.


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## Dr. Brad

Rats. I was hoping that I could get the Space Base reissue!


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## John P

jbond said:


> Consistently the lousiest model company out there...but a grand old tradition of lousiness!


:lol:! Excellent description.


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## spock62

Dr. Brad said:


> Rats. I was hoping that I could get the Space Base reissue!


The Space Base (w/Satellite Explorer) is out, I've got one in my stash! If it's true about Lindberg, you better hurry and get one.


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## billy b

How about the Lindies Loonies " Repulsives"? They would be great!!


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## Cro-Magnon Man

Yep, the Independence Day Alien Spaceship and Alien kits were stinkers. I sold them on without bothering to build them. The Jurassic Park T-Rex and Velociraptor kits were better, but very, very similar to other Jurassic Park kits available at the time.


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## superduty455

What I've read on the car model forums is a bit different.
Retiring? O.K.
Realistically, the "owner" and his wife are in a midst of a divorce and of course she want's half. I've actually seen the report of finances for the divorce proceedings. It's all hung up on what the company is worth and what it will actually make. Some figures are ballooned and that's what stopped everything as of now.
I'm not doom and gloom about it an hope all gets worked out and that we can still have that company around because they still had some nice niche kits.

I was looking forward to a few kits that were on the horizon, but will probably not make it out now.

Chris


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## SUNGOD

spock62 said:


> The Space Base (w/Satellite Explorer) is out, I've got one in my stash! If it's true about Lindberg, you better hurry and get one.




That's one of the kits I wanted too, plus the Los Angeles airship. I thought those kits were taking a long time to appear.


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## Spockr

Dr. Brad said:


> Rats. I was hoping that I could get the Space Base reissue!


I got one a while back and ordered another today...

Get em while you can:

http://www.myatomic.com/catalog/viewsku?sku=LND91008&itemname=1_200_space_base_satellite_explorer

Regards,
MattL


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## iamweasel

What bugged me about about their releases was they would do the same kits over and over again, they have a good sized handful of kits I was hoping they would get around to popping again but....no...same old, same old.


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## spock62

Spockr said:


> I got one a while back and ordered another today...
> 
> Get em while you can:
> 
> http://www.myatomic.com/catalog/viewsku?sku=LND91008&itemname=1_200_space_base_satellite_explorer
> 
> Regards,
> MattL


That's where I bought my kit, it's just under $12.00! Their the only ones that carry this kit from what I've seen.


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## Spockr

spock62 said:


> That's where I bought my kit, it's just under $12.00! Their the only ones that carry this kit from what I've seen.


Plus they ship for free if its over $25. They get a lot of business from me lately. My wallet is wimpers in the corner when I mention their name.


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## MEGA1

*Lindberg*

As far as I know they are still in Business I ordered from them yesterday and received a tracking number that the order was shipped. Even spoke to the Owner. Maybe some problems like all companies but as far as I know still in business. Pete from Megahobby


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## John P

Divorce is unkind to our hobby. It's what killed the great Meteor Models line of accessories and Cutting Edge decals.


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## DocJam00

And here I thought MARRIAGE was unkind to our hobby....or have you not seen 40-Year Old Virgin?


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## djnick66

Meteor/Cutting Edge deserved to go out of business. The owner was a big __________ (fill in the blank).


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## razorwyre1

MEGA1 said:


> As far as I know they are still in Business I ordered from them yesterday and received a tracking number that the order was shipped. Even spoke to the Owner. Maybe some problems like all companies but as far as I know still in business. Pete from Megahobby


thats odd, cause culttvman was reporting on his site that he got a statement saying that they were indeed shutting down. 



tr7nut said:


> When i was in the wholesale hobby business years ago, the Lindberg reps and company in general was VERY out of touch with the market. They have had a mediocre at best product line for more than 30 years now with VERY FEW exceptions. The Jurrassic Park T-Rex and Raptor kits, the ship and alien from Independence Day, and a few of the IMC car kits that they have re-marketed in the past 15 years or so. Not sure if they have all the Pyro molds or not, do seem to have quite a few anyway. I spoke to them recently about the Stage Ghost kit that Yamma brought up a few weeks back, the monster kits, monster rod kits etc... I could almost hear the yawn on the other end of the phone. It has ALWAYS been this way with them. Management seemed to think that THEY KNEW what the market wanted, even more than the market itself. Well guys, MAYBE NOT. It's always sad to me to see another bit or our hobby history slip away. I do feel sure that those who are supplying such great new and old stuff to us now will probably pick up the molds that are worth having so that those kits don't dissapear. To those smart folks with money enough to do something along these lines, DON'T FORGET the Monitor and Merrimac molds from Pyro. They have been around for a hundred years, but they are the only kits of those subjects available. IF this is true, and i don't really doubt it R.I.P. Lindberg. I used to love getting a Mini Lindy on Sunday as a kid so the folks could get in a nap after Church.


truer words were never spoken. ive seen so many businesses tank because of this. if it is indeed true, i am not surprised at all.


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## John P

djnick66 said:


> Meteor/Cutting Edge deserved to go out of business. The owner was a big __________ (fill in the blank).


He was, but he had GREAT products.


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## Moonman27

Just tried to order one from myatomic,but it is SOLD OUT!!! Can't find one in stock anywhere now. I was really bummed! *&%%#[email protected]#!!!!


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## Spockr

*Culttvman*



Moonman27 said:


> Just tried to order one from myatomic,but it is SOLD OUT!!! Can't find one in stock anywhere now. I was really bummed! *&%%#[email protected]#!!!!


http://www.culttvmanshop.com/Space-Base-and-Satellite-Explorer-from-Lindberg_p_531.html


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## Moonman27

Darn it! Cult's sold out too! Guess I missed the bus on this one,crap!


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## Zathros

*I think this is a rumour...The space station isnt even due to hit stores until the end of this month...in my opinion, no need to panic..could be steve got innacurate information

Z
*


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## Moebius

The Space Station has been out, I have one myself I got last month. Someone that knows anyone over there should call and get the straight story. The rumors get so boring!


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## superduty455

an email from the parent firm for Lindberg today. Ernie Petit has retired, and all production and product development has been suspended.


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## MadCap Romanian

And didn't I tell you Ernie retired?



IAMWEASEL said:


> What bugged me about about their releases was they would do the same kits over and over again, they have a good sized handful of kits I was hoping they would get around to popping again but....no...same old, same old.


What about the 1995-2008 Ford and Dodge Police cars, The San Francisco Street Car, 1967 Dodge L-700 trucks and trailers? Those all came out in the mid 1990's until now. It's true that they did bring out a lot of the old stuff, but they also make new items. 



tr7nut said:


> They have had a mediocre at best product line for more than 30 years now with VERY FEW exceptions.


I beg to differ. Their newer molds are quite nice. 

Let's not forget that other companies have had their "Lemon" kits as well. Most of the MPC kits from the 1970's and earily 1980's are still being pumped out by AMT. The 1977 Firebird and General Lee come to mind. These kits never fit together propperly from day 1 and the flash was terrible. Jo-Han kits under Seville were hit and miss too. 1/2 of the ones I bought weren't even worth bringing home. Revell also had flaws with building all the Roth kits in "True Scale" making for very brittle parts, especially the chrome ones. It's all in how you look at the kits.


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## HabuHunter32

The last kits I bought from them was a case of Crown Vic interceptors and like MadCap said they were quite nice kits! Sad news indeed!


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## Spockr

Zathros said:


> *I think this is a rumour...The space station isnt even due to hit stores until the end of this month...in my opinion, no need to panic..could be steve got innacurate information
> 
> Z
> *



Not panicking just playing it safe. I purchased and received one of the 1/200 Space Base Satellite Explorer (LND91008) kits in early April from Myatomic. I hoped this is a rumor too but purchased another from them just in case. 


I hope this is a rumor too.


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## derric1968

Hmmm.... well, I haven't really paid much attention to Lindberg in quite some time. Haven't bought a Lindberg kit since ID4.

Although I do love their Godzilla kit! It's still one of my most prized build-ups.


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## tr7nut

*Street car and 1967 Dodge Trucks*

Not 100% on this, but i'm fairly sure that the San Fran Street Car and the 1967 Dodge Trucks with trailer were IMC kits. I never had the Lindberg product out of the box to know for sure, just know they borrowed other products from the IMC/Testors line. I bought one of their Little Red Wagons so i wouldn't have to build my original. I only mentioned the kits i knew were worth messing with, i'm sure there are some others. I just know that a large majority of their products were off scale, poorly detailed, molds were getting worn out and had never been cleaned up etc.... 

Cliff :thumbsup:


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## MadCap Romanian

@ Derric1968 - Are you sure those are Lindberg? I think they're Polar Lights.


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## djnick66

The Cable Car is an old Hawk kit. The Cab-over truck, trailer, Little Red Wagon, etc are IMC kits. In the late 60s/early 70s, Hawk acquired IMC. Later, they were taken over by Testors. Testors seems to have sold the stuff off to Lindberg or their parent company, J Lloyd International a couple years back. You see some Hawk kits now in Lindberg boxes, and vice versa.

Lindberg did a very nice Godzilla. He was sort of a generic 80s-90s version. Aparently a Rodan kit was tooled but but never released. These are NOT the Auora/Polar Lights kits. Around the same time Lindberg did a nice classic Superman figure, but he was also never relasesed.


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## Buc

My Lindberg Godzilla
http://www.bucwheat.com/wrkbn/godz/godzpto.htm


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## MadCap Romanian

Ok...I guess that's a new one on me. 

Well, I do know that the 1963 Dodge and Plymouth kits are new Lindberg as are the 1940 Fords. I also thought that the A-700 cab-overs were just retools/new tools of the A-100 which was an IMC kit. Guess I learn new things every day about the hobby.


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## Auroranut

This is the original issue of the Cable Car from the late '50s......
It was in great condition- it's one of the kits that got termite damaged....










Chris.


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## MadCap Romanian

I guess I thought it was new because I never saw it before. Well, is this the first time it's been released since the 1950's?


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## Ensign Eddie

MadCap Romanian said:


> I guess I thought it was new because I never saw it before. Well, is this the first time it's been released since the 1950's?


If you are referring to the cable car, Testors has released it several times since the original Hawk release.


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## djnick66

The San Fran cable car is very common. It was sold by Hawk and then Testors off and on for many years. It doesnt seem to have any great demand and you can get them off eBay fairly cheeply


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## Moonman27

I've checked everywhere I could find online,and EVERYONE is SOLD OUT of the Space Station Satellite Explorer. I was really waiting for this one,and did not think it was out yet. I don't have a LHS anymore,so I must resort to a nearby Hobbytown(whose selection sucks) or travel a few counties away. It makes me sad.


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## Dr. Brad

I've got a local store trying to get me a Space Station, but I'm not holding my breath....


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## djnick66

The weird thing about the Space Base is my wholesalers say its not yet released.


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## Moonman27

So is the space station in the pipeline,or will Lindberg's demise mean that it will not be released in the numbers previously expected?


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## djnick66

Lindberg and Hawk are essentialy the same company now so its weird that Lindberg is reportedly out of business yet the Lindy Loonies are being issued by Hawk... its all the same outfit! 

It is reported on Steelnavy.com, a ship modelling site that Lindberg is NOT out of business. So who knows. Someone on this site says they got a response from Lindberg saying production had ceased, and someone on Steelnavy said they got word that no it has not and that Lindberg is working away on their 1/144 USS Arizona battleship project.


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## mcdougall

Yeah...I kind of find it odd that a Model Company would be closing its' doors here on the Cusp of the Platinum Age of Modeling...IMO...
Mcdee


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## Zathros

*I just spoke with the manufacturer that has lindbergs molds ..she told me that that was a rumour also that she heard, that Lindberg was closing down...she gave me a contact person that I can reach tomorrow that will have the answer, says she..I will get ahold of him tomorrow, and post what he tells me..


Z
*


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## John P

Glad I nabbed a space base from Cult when I did!


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## Ace Airspeed

R.I.P Lindberg........................

I cut my teeth as kid on many of your models...............


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## MadCap Romanian

Maybe it's a ploy for people to buy more comics...kind of like the "Death of Superman" in the 1990's. Gues what folks....he's still alive!


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## djnick66

Actually model companies today never go away. Monogram bit the dust 20 years ago but their kits are still sold by Revell... Airfix went bankrupt a couple years back but is now run by Hornby. Revell floundered a year or so back but was picked up by Hobbico, Revell Germany is still running old Matchbox and Frog molds...


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## chasd25

djnick66 said:


> Actually model companies today never go away. Monogram bit the dust 20 years ago but their kits are still sold by Revell... Revell floundered a year or so back but was picked up by Hobbico,


Actually it was the other way around. Monogram's parent company acquired Revell back in 86, and merged the two brands. Revell's plant was closed in Venice Beach Calif, and all assets/molds etc were shipped to Monogram in Illinois.

The "revell" name was thought to have more worldwide brand recognition, so it was retained. For awhile both names were appearing on kit boxes. In the last few years the "Monogram" label has started to appear on some re-releases of older kits.


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## djnick66

Actually its more complicated than that. A partnership company bought both floundering businesses at the same time. Revell's Venice plant and Monogram's Des Plaines plants were both closed and facilites were relocated to Northbrook, IL. The Revell name was kept since it had better recognition and worldwide appeal (sort of the reason the parent company of Testors dropped the competing Floquil military paint line in favor of expanding the Testors range).

The Monogram name was added to Revell's name for some time, and they were known as Revell-Monogram, Inc. Revell later dropped the Monogram name. For old times sake, they do sell a few kits in Monogram boxes. Oddly the Revell reissues of the Aurora Red Knight and Black Knight are in Monogram boxes, but the instruction sheet in the Red Knight says, "your Revell model..." desipte the kit saying Monogram on the box.

Revell is now owned by Hobbico. They are still in Illinois but have moved again.

But ultimately, as my point was, kits dont usually disappear. The name on the box may change but the molds are the same. Lindberg also has acquited molds. They have some Pyro kits, and many of their planes are old Olin, Varney and Boycraft products. Likewise, Revell has sold Lindberg kits in Revell boxes from time to time. Glencoe has repackaged some Lindberg kits in their own packaging, and now Atlantis is handling at least one Lindberg kit.


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## Spockr

djnick66 said:


> ... and now Atlantis is handling at least one Lindberg kit.


Wasn't Lindberg making the old UFO with glow alien kit *for* Atlantis? If so where does that leave Atlantis?

Regards,
Matt


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## chasd25

djnick66 said:


> Actually its more complicated than that. A partnership company bought both floundering businesses at the same time. Revell's Venice plant and Monogram's Des Plaines plants were both closed and facilites were relocated to Northbrook, IL. The Revell name was kept since it had better recognition and worldwide appeal (sort of the reason the parent company of Testors dropped the competing Floquil military paint line in favor of expanding the Testors range).
> 
> The Monogram name was added to Revell's name for some time, and they were known as Revell-Monogram, Inc. Revell later dropped the Monogram name. For old times sake, they do sell a few kits in Monogram boxes. Oddly the Revell reissues of the Aurora Red Knight and Black Knight are in Monogram boxes, but the instruction sheet in the Red Knight says, "your Revell model..." desipte the kit saying Monogram on the box.
> 
> Revell is now owned by Hobbico. They are still in Illinois but have moved again.


Sorry, I'm a bit of a Monogram nut, so some minor points of correction on the history of the two.......

1986 Tom Gannon and partners (who owned Monogram, bought it from Mattel) sold Monogram to Odyssey Partners. Monogram at that time was a profitable company.

Odyssey had an option to buy Revell, revell was not at that time a profitable company, and in fact carried a bit of debt. While Revell led the world in kit sales, it was seldom a profitable company, and hadn't turned one in 7 years at the time Odyssey purchased it.

The merger of Revell & Monogram (profitable company with indebted company) allowed Odyssey to carry forward the losses, and offset the purchase of revell. THey also now owned to the two leading domestic producers of models in the USA.

All Revell Assests where moved to Monograms Plant 2 in Des Plaines. The Venice plant was closed, and according to most accounts no revell employees were transferred.

Inventory of Revell assests was difficult, as molds were scattered across the globe, to subcontracting molding companies, and overseas subsidaries.

At that time, the product lines were kept separate. All company functions for both revell and monogram were consolidated in the Morton Grove plant. Although in 1988, monogram kits began appearing in revell boxes, and vice versa. In 1997 all kits were packaged in the combined logo. For tax purposes, and better brand recognition, the names were combined.

in 1994 Revell-Monogram was sold to Hallmark Cards/Binney & Smith, in 2001 sold to Alpha International, and in 2002 sold to the "Revell Group" which was a group of investors, and former executives of Monogram, and other toy companies. The revell group also at the time owned Revell Germany.

In 2004 they moved to their current location in Northbrook (not in the late 80s). 

In 2006 Revell Germany was sold to a group led by Revell Germany Managment.

In 2007 Hobbico bought Revell-Monogram, and retained Jim Foster as head (although I don't know if he's still head of Revell-Monogram).

And now you know the rest of the story!


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## TAY666

Wow.
Thanks for that great detailed history.

I've saved that to my hard drive for future reference.
As it may come in handy when I finally sit down and try to figure out which years the PS reissues were actually available.


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## cribb

I never knew that Revell was located in Venice, CA. Anyone happen to know what the address was?


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## DocJam00

I think it's in the Revell book I have on my desk at work. I will try to look it up tomorrow.


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## Ensign Eddie

What an interesting thread hijack (seriously....it's very interesting).




Zathros said:


> *I just spoke with the manufacturer that has lindbergs molds ..she told me that that was a rumour also that she heard, that Lindberg was closing down...she gave me a contact person that I can reach tomorrow that will have the answer, says she..I will get ahold of him tomorrow, and post what he tells me..*
> 
> 
> *Z*


Zathros, have you heard anything from your contact?


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## Ductapeforever

I phoned customer service and spoke with two different employees, they both denied Lindberg closing, kit releases are on track, a few moved into 2011 but being released just the same.


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## djnick66

There is a similar discussion on Steelnavy.com and it was denied Lindberg is closing.


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## Zathros

Ensign Eddie said:


> What an interesting thread hijack (seriously....it's very interesting).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zathros, have you heard anything from your contact?


*my apologies...I was not able to get to call him...I will do it first thing tuesday morning...

Z
*


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## Zathros

*Just in case...I ordered a space base and satellite , and it arrived today...great vintage kits..glad I got it...

Z
*


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## Trek Ace

I already bought two of the Lindberg Space Base kits. I may pick up a few more . . . just in case.


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## Moonman27

Where did you guys find a Space Base/Satellite Explorer,I've looked to no luck??


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## Trek Ace

I bought my two at Burbank's House of Hobbies in Burbank, CA.


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## buzzconroy

Trek Ace said:


> I bought my two at Burbank's House of Hobbies in Burbank, CA.


I deal with Burbank also for about 10 years now, great people to deal with, I buy mostly paints in bulk and modelling supplies.

Randy


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## Spockr

Moonman27 said:


> Where did you guys find a Space Base/Satellite Explorer,I've looked to no luck??


Hey Moonman27. PM Sent


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## scotpens

cribb said:


> I never knew that Revell was located in Venice, CA. Anyone happen to know what the address was?


The old Revell plant was on Glencoe Ave. in Venice. I believe Glencoe Models was named as an homage to Revell.


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## AuroraFan1

Well it appears the summation of this thread is that Lindberg is not closing.

That is good news to hear!


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## Trek Ace

We can only hope that's true!


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## MEGA1

*Space Base is in stock*

reatail was 14.99 but raised to 30.00

http://www.megahobby.com/1200spacebasesatelliteexplorer.aspx


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## louspal

Got one! Thanks. This kit has two crafts so the pricetag is fitting.Are they going to reissue the whole series Mega1?, (convairs, retriever rocket etc) Or maybe Atlantis will take a crack at the old concept space vehicles. Hmm.......


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## bizzarobrian

Why are the Loonies being sold as Weirdoh`s? Sounds like they are selling molds.


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## djnick66

Not really, Lindberg and Hawk are essentially the same company. Sort of like Revell and Monogram, Italeri and Supermodel, etc. J Lloyd International acquired Lindberg, and also the plastic kits that Testors used to sell, ie HAWK, IMC, etc. I assume the Hawk Weird Oh's are more well known than the Lindberg kits, so they have just been moved over to that line. Likewise some of the Hawk airplane kits are now sold under the Lindberg name.


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## superduty455

Some new news on the situation. I think we can rest a bit on the rumor mill.
Taken from a post by Steve Larson, vice president of The Alexander Lippisch Model Club :
"Here's what's going on, Lingberg is still owned by Jody Keener. It is still based in my hometown of Cedar Rapids, Iowa. It is still working on and producing kits. And it is not for sale. Two members of our local model club, The Alexander Lippisch IPMS/USA Chapter, work with and for Jody Keener. One member, Terry, builds the trooper cars for the box art photos as well as the dodge l-700 series of trucks and trailers. He has also built a dodge L-700 with a race car trailer bed/with surround for hauling of a Little Red Wagon, both done in candy apple red. It's been in the mags in the show sections. Ernie saw it and liked it, commissioned a second copy for box art and production and the first pops will be in our members hands soon. He is also been asked to build a 1/16 tub called the Bull Horn. It shares parts with the Laramie Stage Ghost which allegedly jody will also try to produce. His philosophy is to produce those kits that collectors want and not just your old 64 impala for the tenth billionth time... Our other member, Scott, started working part time in the company store for Ernie's replacement who has been forthcoming with the current condition of the company. Jody's company is not just a model company, it produces other lines and is run by Jody and around a dozen employees. He's just one man, he's doing the best he can, lets give him some breathing room, I think you'll be surprised what you'll seem coming out."


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## louspal

Today on CulTVman is a clarification of the post-WF, "Lindberg's demise" announcment. Check it out: http://culttvman.com/main/


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## superduty455

I just received this promising note:

"The latest on Lindberg -- direct from Jody Keener of Lindberg:

Ernie [Petit] retired in January of this year at 75; a much-deserved man finally enjoying his own time after 53 years in the business. I have taken over his position and this is my 43rd year in the business. J. Lloyd [parent company] is and has always been the owner of Hawk Models and Lindberg, ever since Ernie was managing it. 

I assure you these rumors started with an employee [who] was let go and unhappy. 

Lindberg and Hawk is alive and well, and has moved 100 percent of all production back to the USA. 

We have a factory that I own in Kalkaska, Michigan, 100,000 square feet that is a 24/6 facility. J. Lloyd has over $25 million in inventory, no bank debt, and is going nowhere anytime soon. 

We have cut about 40 of the 150 new items planned, due to not enough support to move forward on. 

I have heard rumors from the factory burning to the ground and losing all the tooling; Ernie leaving as a result of frustration; and no stock/warehouse empty – all of which is lies. "


Chris


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