# WiP: "Great Bird of the Galaxy"



## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

Welp, I've been doing some cleaning, some trimming, some gluing, some bracing. Here is a rundown of what I've accomplished in the first few hours and where I see this kit going over the next few sessions.






I'm using popsicle sticks to buttress the guts as the styrene, though strong, is flimsy across its entire surface. 

Rather than cutting mounting holes, I'll be getting some ultra-strong neodymium (sp?) magnets and placing one on each of the inside top and bottom and creating a special brass rod stand with a magnet on that end of it. I do still have to drill contact points for the wiring, however I have a cunning plan to minimize the damage. I'll elaborate on that as it forms more clearly in my head.

I hope you enjoy this build as much as I will!


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## Vaderman (Nov 2, 2002)

Great start Tom. It is really cool to see how someone else would approach the build. It is like I said in the directions, there are many different ways to attack it.

Looking forward to the updates.

Scott
AW Studios


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

Well, here's another installment in two parts.

First one covers the ship taped up for the first time. 
The 2nd vid is the continuation covering the guts and the next steps.











:freak: I totally f'd the upper hull by trimming to the wrong seam! :freak:

There should be a rounded ledge surrounding the angled upper deck. The whole piece is now ~1/8th too small around the entire perimeter. I have an idea to trace the lower hull on a sty sheet and cut a new shelf out of it, My concern is the rounded taper that I lost. I don't know what it was... The scissors took control.


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## Trekkie75 (Mar 29, 2009)

Sorry for the mistake, I wonder if Scott would include an instruction sheet in the kit showing people the correct place to cut and other helpful pointers?

An awesome kit though. The huge feathered eagle pattern on the underbelly will sure be a showstopper. Now R2/PL will have no choice but to come out with the 350th TOS 1701 for us.


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

The instructions sheets do show specifically where to cut the pieces except for the upper saucer. However, scrupulous examination of the other photos shows the ledge that I cut away should remain intact. *And*, had I done a dozen test fits before cutting and second guessed myself verys tep of the way, all would have been well. 

I slipped the scissors on my fingers and they started cutting of their own accord. I was possessed. I must say that I got a terribly clean cut all the way around. It's just the wrong line. 

It's problems like this that teach one how to salvage stuff later. The phrase is 'live and learn' afterall. I think the Klingons have 'Survive and succeed'? What was King Arthur's? 'Adopt, adapt improve'? Mistakes are far more important than successes to my mind. Little is learned from success except the ability to be smug. If my mistake keeps someone else from making the same mistake, then it was worth it! :thumbsup:


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## jbond (Aug 29, 2002)

Oh, I just hate vacuform kits...I was happy to order the smaller resin kit someone else just put out. Am I crazy though? A lot of the photos of this look like the the engine pylons are not swept up at all, that they actually extend straight out from the hull. It's hard to tell because the angles on the pylons themselves create some optical illusions but there's at least one good shot of the ship from the side in "Balance of Terror" and the pylons should definitely be angled up.

Regardless, I cringe at the amount of work it would take to get the engines at the same, correct angle on a vacuform kit.


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## WarpCore Breach (Apr 27, 2005)

I've worked on a number of vac kits and I didn't find the ones I've made good progress on having been overly difficult. A properly designed and molded kit that - with attendant and necessary prep work - really isn't all that different from an injection kit. Even with some minor errors in prepping parts, which is entirely possible, is completely recoverable.

Regretfully, looks like MM really did the worst thing possible with a vac kit and it is a shame that his part was wrecked. Hope you can solve that problem, MM!!

There's really only been 3 kits that have defeated me. The first kit was also probably my first venture into vacform kits- the original Reliant conversion kit from Lunar Models. It just didn't fit and it was missing parts. I never completed that one.

The second kit was also another Lunar kit- the Excelsior. I could never allow myself to start that one primarily because I didn't feel I could do it justice and it was also a mixed media kit with lots of resin - and it felt like many pounds of resin to fit onto that large vac hull!! 

But even that kit pales to my current terror - the Rebellion 1/350 TOS E....! This kit is NOT for people who find vacform kits a problem!! This kit will require skills that I still have to build up to (haha)... that and probably an industrial sander!! LOL!


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## Vaderman (Nov 2, 2002)

jbond said:


> Oh, I just hate vacuform kits...I was happy to order the smaller resin kit someone else just put out. Am I crazy though? A lot of the photos of this look like the the engine pylons are not swept up at all, that they actually extend straight out from the hull. It's hard to tell because the angles on the pylons themselves create some optical illusions but there's at least one good shot of the ship from the side in "Balance of Terror" and the pylons should definitely be angled up.
> 
> Regardless, I cringe at the amount of work it would take to get the engines at the same, correct angle on a vacuform kit.


The angle was not that difficult. The way the wings fit to the hull will help with the angle. 

Tom, if you need another top, let me know. I can send it with the Refit Base. 

Scott


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

JB- I hear you. This is my first Vac, I don't know if it will be my last. It took me several vinyl kits to really get those techniques down. There are similarities here. With a few more vacs under the belt, I think I could do them all well. Always a learning curve. 

This is a model that begs to be cast in resin. However as it is essentially the only game in town, I'm just happy to have it after nearly 40yrs of waiting. (Discovering how wrong the AMT was this past year was a real blow!  )

The way the wings and body are engineered, the wings naturally sweep up. Getting them symmetrical in all three axis will will be a trick, but so is getting the AMT 1701 symmetrical! lol. I'm not too worried. Get one down and match to that.

Warp- "regretfully...wrecked.." Ouch!  No, this is recoverable. I'm uploading the fix vid now. I traced the bottom and top halves onto a large sty sheet I happened to have the prescience to pick up early last week. Cutting those templates out, I matched them up to the upper and lower hull and have created a shelf. It's not an exact fix, but it is an acceptable repair. Definitely a fender bender, but not totaled.

_-Y'know, back around mid-80's I saw that Reliant conversion in a shop and thought it was stupid. A few short years later, I wish I'd gotten it! Ah well. I got a couple of the ERTL 1864's, but they never did it for me. Now there's the DeBoer that's got me drooling and is way freaking out of my price league, leaving me dreams of an R2 1/350. I can dream. sigh.-_



Vaderman said:


> ...if you need another top, let me know.


That's the sound of a quality businessman looking out for his customers. Not that that's not uncommon for GK'ers, but it's always good to know and see it demonstrated! My commendations!

As you offer, Scott, I will accept. I will continue with my patching and when the replacement arrives, I will have the opp. to compare how close I came or how far I missed.
------------------

I'll post the repair vids in a few hours when they are processed. 
Always feel free to browse my channel and subscribe, comment and rate! 
youtube.com/user/modelmantom

Thanks all!


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

I just baked some sculpy led holders molded to the inner nacelle. I'm experimenting with the leds themselves now. Smoked one, but figured that would happen. 

The green leds I've got are about 2.2v each. Putting 2 on a 6v yields exceptional brightness, which means they will die an early death. Three gives off the similar light level, but adds 1/3 more mA draw. (Four are too much for 6v to handle and don't light at all) 

The red leds are a diff. voltage and will require their own math to balance out. 

The white leds are about 3v @ 20mA. If I go w/ 10 white, there's 200mA right there. 

I'm leaning towards a 6v, 700mA wall wart. This way, I don't need to know what the mA draw on the others is as long as they still light, then I know 700mA is enough. If not, then I have a 7v 1000mA wall wart laying around. In that case, I would need to redo all the math again. NBD.

Guess I'll put a side post in the lighting section here when I get to that aspect in more detail.


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## Trekkie75 (Mar 29, 2009)

Wow, you saved it!

This goes to show what I know about what can or can't be done in modeling.

I think this one will turn out pretty well at the end, then again my predictions have been dashed before.:lol:


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## Atemylunch (Jan 16, 2006)

I saw this thread and thought somebody was building a model of Gene Roddenberry.


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## slingshot392 (Nov 27, 2008)

You're doing a great job on this build, great save! this was all was one of my favorite science-fiction ships. Can't wait to see it finished.


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## Vaderman (Nov 2, 2002)

Great to see that you fixed the problem. I am still going to send you another top. Keep in mind that once together, there won't be a lip. It edge should end up being pretty sharp.

You are doing great on the build-up.

Scott


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

Thanks Scott, I appreciate it. 
The ledge/shelf I mention is visible around the upper hull's perimeter here:









I trimmed right up to that interior ridge where the slope starts. The outer edge of the of the upper perimeter appears to have a curve to it based on the soft shadow. That is to say, it at least is not a hard angle. And that 'curve' is in the plastic I mistakenly cut away.

Lastly, I've begun work on the lights. I'm putting those posts in the lighting section here:
http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=251131

It's just the nacelles so far. Body lights are next.


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

So I threw a couple hours at this bird last night and here are some othe results. Check the lighting link for photonic updates here.

The wings and nacelles went on easily enough. I started by gluing one wing down and matching the other wing to that one. It took some finagling, but I got it. Once on, I slit holes into the shared wing/body wall and inserted a pair of brass brads to help 'cement' them together. I was able to staple the far end of the wing to the body. Wish I could have done staples along the entire length, but the parts do not allow for that. And while the directions call for a mix of cement and CA glue, I just went w/ a dozen passes of CA on each side fo the seam. I'll throw a few more down today.

Droop: Upon studying the superstructure I added, I'm not worried about this. The weak point is int he hull walls. However, once the top goes down, that will fix the walls in place and stop any sagging. I may try to run more popsicle sticks through the body/wing/nacelle length, but I shouldn't need to. And the walls themselves should have no chance fo bowing, which would be the only other way the wings could sag. The vids more clearly demonstrate this point.

Next up was one nacelle, then the other. I think that one nacelle may sit a few mm further back (or forward) from the other. But it's awful close. The first time I glued the 2nd nacelle down it was off on the z axis by a few degrees, so it was ripped up and done again. But both nacelles seem to sit slightly inwards.











While this model will generally hang for display, I want to shoot it for video, thus it will need at least two mounting points. Rather than drilling holes into the body, I'll be using magnets. I got a bunch of neodymium ('rare earth') magnets, the most powerful there are. These are tiny 6mm discs and damn can they hold some weight! So those will go on the inside top/bridge area and the central bottom area where the center of gravity is. The mounting rod will have the other magnets on it. No holes! But... I will have to have some holes drilled for the wiring. Those will be far more minimal than mounting holes would be. 

Next up is gluing the wings on once those wires are run. I may or may not seal the nacelles up immediately. It does no harm leaving them open until the last second. The underside wing seams will be th enightmare here. But it is the same for the AMT kit. Having built that last year, I hope I will have retained some of the lessons learned. I took notes, so I will review those before proceeding further.


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## Vaderman (Nov 2, 2002)

Looking good Tom. Your replacement top is going out today.

Scott


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## starmanmm (Mar 19, 2000)

Gotta remember the popsicle sticks idea.

Love it.

Is this a vacumform kit?


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## Vaderman (Nov 2, 2002)

Yes it is a vacuform kit made from .040 styrene.

Scott


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

There is a down side to the popsicle stick idea that occurs on curved surfaces- it flattens them. As detailed in the vid, there are some work arounds. I knew going into it that it could happen, the upper hull proved it would happen. mY workaround is to use smaller ones in grater number to better match the curvature next time.


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## Vaderman (Nov 2, 2002)

Just a suggestion for the body to wing connection, I used Apoxie Sculpt. That stuff is real nice to work with and is water soluable. You can smooth it out with your fingers and water to get a nice blend between the plastic parts. It also sands real well. You can then use spot putty to finish up.

Scott


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

I'm moving towards the Aves, one product at a time. 
Right now, all I have is Bondo, so Bondo it is. 
If I run out of that, work stops. I've got no cash.

And here's some results:


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

FSM-1 said:


> ...It's just proof that anyone can do a vac kit...


Thanks! ... I think... Hey!!! LOL.

If anyone has not done vinyl or vac kits before picking this one up, I would not rec. learning on this $100+ kit. Bad idea. But it is relatively easy I will say. However, I've had a number of vinyl kits to learn the basics on beforehand -and I screwed them up pretty darn good in a lot of cases.

Here's the followup to that bondo session. From here on out, it's all standard body work procedures -sand, putty, prime, repeat.


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## starmanmm (Mar 19, 2000)

Nice info there.

First, I was unaware that on vac kits, you had to bondo them. :freak: I figured that you just put it together, prime and paint. Never attempted one and not sure, after seeing what you have put into this one, that I would want to build a vac kit if that is what I have to do. 

Second, if you are planning in replacing Aves for the bondo.... unless I am corrected, Aves was never intended to be used like bondo, that I know of.  I use Aves and it is no where as smooth as bondo for it is pretty thick. So I would think that bondo is the way to go for this sort of application. I use Aves for filling gaps or making a piece I need (like a cape). Trying to spread that stuff would be fun.

Any one else think that Aves can be smoothed on like that?


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

As stated above:


Model Man said:


> I'm moving towards the Aves, one product at a time.
> Right now, all I have is Bondo, so Bondo it is.
> If I run out of that, work stops. I've got no cash.


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## Vaderman (Nov 2, 2002)

I did not use Bondo over the entire bottom of the ship. I only used apoxie sculpt for the seams between the wings and hull. When used with water, you can blend it very nicely with the hull. There is no other layer of anything between the paint and the plastic.

Remember, each modeler can choose how they want to put a kit together. 

Scott


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## starmanmm (Mar 19, 2000)

> As stated above:
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Model Man*
> _I'm moving towards the Aves, one product at a time.
> ...


I think you misunderstood what I was saying..... _I understand that you are trying new things_.... I was just saying that Aves as replacement for Bondo is not going to give you the same results as Bondo for it is more clay like.

Or one of us is misunderstanding the other?


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

Ah, sorry Star.
I would not use Aves like Bondo. I have been 'encouraged' from all corners to "Get Aves! Get Aves"! So I threw that notion into the video even though I was using Bondo. I now understand the non-sequitor. 

If I did not have bondo now, I would not be using whatever I would have in it's places as I am using the bondo. Different tools, different techniques. While Bondo might be good for filling dents or cracks on a car, it is useless for doing so on a model. While Aves might be good for filling cracks and seams on a model, I would likely no slather it around the bottom of this ship like I am now with the bondo.

My deepest apologies for the short-shrift. 
These fumes are intense! :freak:
----------------

I was hoping that the bondo would cure into a denser material. It is still flexible several days later. Over the last two days, I've dumped a pile of primer and paint on the hull looking to beef it up and smooth it out. It blobbed in a few spots so once those cure, I will take the orbital sander to the body again. No more bondo for this guy (me or the Bird!). However, I am out of filler and out of steady employment. So a resupply could be some time off still. 

PS. If you have not reinforced the hull like I have, do not take an orbital sander to it!!! :wave:


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## starmanmm (Mar 19, 2000)

I don't know what else you can use except maybe fiberglass? It would not allow the model to flex but messy to put on.


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## slingshot392 (Nov 27, 2008)

Any farther on this? Can't wait to see how it turns out.


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

Sorry to say, I have not. Scott asked me the other week how it was going. 

Finances are getting better since bottoming out in April. I really wanted to hold out on this build until I could get some Aves, but the other day, I broke down and got one last tube of squadron. I'll go slather some on the body now. 

When last I left it, I had the thought of beefing up the underside with layers and layers of spray paint. This was a bad idea. I'll cover that in the next installment. 

Thanks for reminding me to get off my butt.
-t


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## slingshot392 (Nov 27, 2008)

Sorry to hear about the finances, I've been there often enough! Hope that turns around soon for you.

Yeah, paint won't do anything to beef an area up.

Once you get it built and you are ready to start getting it ready for paint, if it has any low spots or even just a good primer I have found is Krylon primer that comes in a small can, I picked mine up at Wal-Mart in the paint section for a couple bucks or so.

Right out of the can, it is fairly thick and could be good for building up low spots. I put it right out of the can on my 1/1000 Enterprise and after it dried, it didn't look quite right and I didn't want to paint over it so I am working on removing that now.

What I really like about it is you can clean your brushes up and you can thin the primer with water, it also has virtually no smell so it's easy to use in the house anytime of the year which is good here in Minnesota. I thinned it 50% with water and put two coats on my Klingon Bird of Prey and went on great, very thin and didn't hide any details.

I applied it with a brush (I do mostly brush painting now), it looked kind of transparent as it went on and I could see some slight brush strokes which I thought I would likely have to sand out. It dried opaque and it self leveled as it dried and was perfectly smooth to my pleasant surprise.

I have also been playing around with the craft acrylics to get at Wal-Mart and the artist acrylics you get at Michael's and I am having pretty good luck with them now. I also use the thinned primer as a medium in the paint and then thin it with Future. When I get farther on my Bird of Prey, I will post some pictures. So far, I'm pretty terrible at mixing to the exact color I want as I'm not used to doing that so Iwaste a bunch of paint, once I am better at that, it will definitely be cheaper than buying those little bottles of model paints, although they won't completely replace it, especially for my model car bodies.

Probably more information than you wanted to know!


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## starmanmm (Mar 19, 2000)

Interesting info there slingshot392... I didn't know that Krylon primer could be found in a can! :freak:

Was going to try the decanting bit, but have been dragging my feet on that. But if I can find their primer in a can and spray it thru my AB and get decent results.... works for me!


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## slingshot392 (Nov 27, 2008)

Not sure how well it would work through an airbrush, right now I am only brush painting although I do have the Kustom Kolor airbrush system, I'm also going to order a different airbrush head for it, just haven't gotten around to trying it, probably will when I get to my funny car/dragster bodies.

It's extremely thick out of the can, but thinning it down can literally give it the consistency of water. It does separate slightly relatively quickly so if you're running an open cup, might need to give it a slight stir now and then, if you're running a bottle, then just a couple shakes. I can see the separation of the top of the bottle I have it in, it takes almost no stirring so it may just be right on top.

Not meaning to hijack the thread or anything, it's just a relatively inexpensive alternative and when it's thinned down, the can goes a long ways. Here's a picture of my Bird of Prey with two coats brushed on, a couple areas on the wings and tail section possibly could have used another coat, I originally screwed up the first paint job and most of it was removed. I figured it didn't matter since I was putting basically the same color over top.


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## starmanmm (Mar 19, 2000)

Looks good and seems to work.


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

It's back!





I finally tackled the ugliness with a file and 60 grit on the orbital sander. The file was needed to level the worst of the lumps. (Modeler Tip: Do NOT get arthritis. It sucks!) The 60 grit tore the surface down to near-smooth. I have to build it back up again, level it down, build it up, level and so on. There are a few other notes in the vid. Thanks for all the patience and encouragement over this build from everybody.

PS This vid has an excellent shot of the ugliness ~1:40.





Even better here at ~5:05


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## Vaderman (Nov 2, 2002)

Glad to see you are back to work on it. Sorry to here that you had to sand off the paint and bondo. Hopefully that will not be too bad and the hull survives. Have you though about tracing the inside of the hulls floor and cut out a piece of thicker plastic that you could cement to the insode to make it sturdier. I would be a little concerned with adding plaster of paris because it may weigh the ship down and I know you planned on using magnets to keep it on the stand.

Scott


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## slingshot392 (Nov 27, 2008)

Great to see you back and building again. Good save on the Bird of Prey, it will look nice when finished.

I make an irritating number of mistakes on my models, watching your videos and seeing your progress, warts and all helps to give me the encouragement and confidence to strip it back down and keep going until it's finished. Thanks much for the videos, they are such a help!


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## Vaderman (Nov 2, 2002)

I think that the most important thing to remember is to have fun doing it. I love trying new techniques or put something together that I never thought I could. Is it perfect, no. But practice makes perfect.

Scott


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## starmanmm (Mar 19, 2000)

Welcome back!

Suggestion for securing the leds to the inside of the Bird of Prey, tube chauking (like those use to seal around windows and doors) might work. It is flexable and should adhear well.


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)




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## Vaderman (Nov 2, 2002)

Glad to see the update Tom. Nice to see you got things worked out on the bottom. I am thinking about building another one again soon.

Scott


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## starmanmm (Mar 19, 2000)

Glad to see you found something to work for this situation. :thumbsup:


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

Vader- If when finished, someone buys this one, I'll buy another one from you. I like this kit alot. Learning on this one means the next one will be that much better. Now that the decal is looming, I'm getting scared of that. 

Starr- If I had known about this plaster option before the popsicle sticks, I would have done this instead. I went heavy this time as I wanted to cover up the sticks. And alot of this prob was caused by the sticks, so they are nixed next time. A much thinner layer of plaster than I put on here will be better -enough to stiffen the hull, not enough to weight the thing down. It probably now weighs as much as if it were made in resin instead of styrene.

I'll have another vid in a day or so...


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## slingshot392 (Nov 27, 2008)

Looks good! I will have to check some of that clay stuff out. In my airplane days, I did see some guys that would fill each half of the fuselage and wing of a vac with expanding foam and then shave and sand it smooth which also gave a lot of surface area for gluing the parts together. I don't know how hard that stuff gets after it is dry, but maybe sections could be cut out for the wiring and the lights?


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## slingshot392 (Nov 27, 2008)

I've never used the stuff, maybe it could be used in some of your Enterprises (and any other models that need it) instead of the popsicle sticks? Maybeit could be shot in after the subassemblies are put together?


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## Vaderman (Nov 2, 2002)

Expanding foam is good to use to fill in and provide sturdiness. Keeps it lightweight as well. You can get cans of it at Home Depot.

Scott


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## slingshot392 (Nov 27, 2008)

Is it easy to sand?


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## Vaderman (Nov 2, 2002)

It isn't too bad. Very dusty. I use a palm sander for most of it. If I need to, I use a rasp.

Scott


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

I remember you mentioning the expanding foam a while ago. I will look for it next time I'm at HDepot. I like to try lots of diff. stuff and see what works and what fails. The best way to learn is to fail and try again is my motto.


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

There's always epoxy putty.


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

Generally speaking, something like Aves is too expensive for the area involved. I like to save that for finishing touches. 

I'm sealing the engines tonight and will seek to finish the hull over this coming weekend, methinks.


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

OK. So here's the final look at the interior before it is sealed up forever. Test fitting the top showed that some bottom hull 're-shaping' has ocurred over time. I can't say when it happened. But the fix of snapping one wing and repo'ing to the top will work. 

This has been one of the top three most difficult builds I've ever gotten myself into and it is entirely my fault. :freak: The lack of familiarity w/ vac kits and experimenting w/ new techniques (for me) is the direct cause. Should I be able to get another one of these down the road, that one will be much, much better. 

But if I had a penny for everytime someone here said it was wrecked beyond repair, I'd at least have a nickel by now. LOL. 

This wing snap is definitely the worst possible thing that has happened to me on any kit. I do not show it off in the video. I chickened out. Perhaps I'll get a shot of it for the next video to show how well the repair went compared to the damage inflicted.  But I do show off all the wiring and lights in place. 

I have to put some wax paper behind all the windows for light dispersion. I have no idea how I'm going to mask them off. I'm stuck on that notion. Any ideas anyone?


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

The body is sealed. It is quite strong now. But the front needs reinforcement still. 

The snapped-off wing repaired 'well'. It requires some tlc for a little while longer. The wings are symmetrical. I recorded the broken wing before repairs.

I put the amber/orange led in the plasma gun.

The waxpaper does not disburse light, but it does hide individual led hotspots. Next time, I will use fiber optics. 

Tomorrow, I will continue reinforcing the upper/lower hull rim. From here on out, it's primer/sand/repeat.

Still don't know how to mask the portholes off. Can't primer until I do. Will appreciate ideas on this front. :wave:


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## Vaderman (Nov 2, 2002)

You could use thin square and round strips of evergreen plastic that are the right diameter and cut them down and stick the short pieces in each hole (you may need to us white glue to hold in place). Once you finish painting, you can pull each one out. They should prevent the paint from hitting the wax paper.

Scott


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

The wax paper is glued flat to back side of the walls. No room to stick anything in there. But now that I think of it, the sheet of vinyl window details included w/ the kit should mask the windows themselves fine. It's been awhile since I looked at that sheet, but I think they weren't 'punched'. If so, I am set!

Here's a look at the ship all sealed up. It's been a long journey, but I am getting there. Were I not so incompetent w/ vac forms, I would have been there much sooner. This has been an excellent learning experience for me. 

And it continues!


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## Vaderman (Nov 2, 2002)

Great job Tom! The vinyl windows do have masks with them. If you need a set of masks, let me know, I have more. Fro the decal, you will definitely want to split the wings in half along the feathers. It will make it much easier to manage the decal placement.

Scott


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## slingshot392 (Nov 27, 2008)

Great work so far and some great saves. Your persistence in finishing this and ways on fixing problems keeps me going on a couple of my builds that I'm working on now that seem to have persistent problems.

The magnets sound really cool and might make things easier for mounting? I have a couple questions on them:

Where do you get them, any certain size, and what do they cost?

Do you then mount the model on a pole?

I had thought of smaller magnets for use in operating model car doors so they would still be easy to open but would be held shut in a certain spot, never thought of using them for mounting a model.


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## aric (Jun 23, 2009)

slingshot392 said:


> Where do you get them, any certain size, and what do they cost?
> 
> Do you then mount the model on a pole?


These look like the same magnets:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=98371

This thread taught me more about vac-form kits then I ever thought possible :thumbsup:
I might actually tackle one someday. seems "never give up" really is priority one with these things.


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## Vaderman (Nov 2, 2002)

aric said:


> These look like the same magnets:
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=98371
> 
> This thread taught me more about vac-form kits then I ever thought possible :thumbsup:
> I might actually tackle one someday. seems "never give up" really is priority one with these things.


I got some available whenever you are ready to try...:wave:

Scott


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

First, thanks to all your guys encouragement as that is a real morale booster. I would see this thru to the 'bitter end' regardless, however hoorahs are always welcome relief!

Scott, thanks for your help on this. Your upper hull save was a godsend and should I need extra masks, I will be sure to avail myself of them. Your pointers along the way were (are) always welcome and most helpful.

Persistence has been the key. It took me 1/2 doz resin kits to get used to that medium, 3 or 4 vinyl kits to get the hang of that, it looks like now I can expect something similar for vac kits. It's the 'flimsiness' of the medium that left-hooked and right-crossed me every which way I turned. Note that 'flimsy' is under no circumstance a reflection on the quality of the kit. It is inherent to the media, not the maker, caster or builder. ---Like paper models. I can't do 'em. Just can't. Too much of a blunderer me for something so delicate.

Magnets. 
Any neodymium (sp!) magnet will be sufficient. The ones linked to above were far cheaper than mine! I paid .80¢ each for mine at a LHS. Mine are however very thin, likely as strong as those linked and have a donut hole in the middle. Couldn't tell you the why or wherefore's behind such novelty. 

I envision every kit I build from here on out to incorporate magnets for some purpose or another. Whether it's holding access hatches on or used as a stand. And in that regard, I think that is very reasonable use considering the weight of the model in the first place. Too big is simply too big. Also, piling lots of magnets together for greater strength does not seem to work. two mags seems to be the multiplier limit. So two inside the body and two in the stand would make four total, two pairs of two in polarity. 

I would not have thought to use them as a stand were it not for the massive Bird decal that graces the bottom hull! I've seen every other of these builds done with a hole drilled in that poor bird. Not for me! I couldn't emotionally handle doing such a thing. And wait til you see this decal. (It's sitting on my scanner now waiting for the 600dpi master save to be made.) Without getting into extreme rigging mount ideas, the magnet leapt to mind straight away. I don't yet know if it will work as I envisioned. We'll all find out soon enough!

And, however, as seen in that last vid, the center of gravity changed on me! So I had to compensate. I also am not totally sure of the upper magnet balance point. So they may have been for naught. However, that is what tests are for. They may not work exactly as I thought this build, but the next one will be better and the one after that better still until I've got the technique pat. But that's the way it is for all things in life, no? Practice, practice, practice (as corn-ball as it sounds).

Keep on gluin'!


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## slingshot392 (Nov 27, 2008)

Thanks for the link, they are a lot cheaper than I was expecting, I will have to pick some up and try them on one of my later builds, I have a number in or near the painting stage so it's too late for them.

One thing that might work for masking the windows (try it on some scrap first) is some Silly Putty, the stuff is readily available and pretty cheap and places like Wal-Mart or Target. I haven't tried it as a mask yet, but I have seen articles and threads where they did use it. Right now I use it for holding parts sometimes, especially when it's too complicated of a shape or place for tape to work. The stuff can be rolled out very thin and it's not too hard to cut although it does stick, I have just started trying dipping the blade in some water which seems to help a little, still experimenting. It's easy to remove with either a knife or a bamboo clay shaping tool, or just using some of it against the mask if it's not covered with paint. It also doesn't leave any residue on the model.

I have tried vacs, but I just never got into them. I have a couple paper models I have purchased and I have downloaded a bunch of free ones, some are just as good as the ones you buy. I still haven't tried them as it's definitely a totally different technique. A while back I was looking at a Polish modeling board for paper models and what they could do was incredible, they would end up looking just like a plastic model, I would love to know how they worked compound curves into paper? Painting the paper models can help a lot.

Just ran across this link last night, this guy's got some pretty incredible space paper models available, some for purchasing, but others are free as well.

http://www.axmpaperspacescalemodels.com/


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## starmanmm (Mar 19, 2000)

Like I have said before.... gotta give ya credit on this kit. :thumbsup: 
I have tried a small J2 one and that was sooooooooo much fun.

Gotta work my way up... not like you... taking on something this big.

I'll start with a small vac kit and work my way up!

Keep it up.... you are winning the War!!!!


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

I put the aft engine caps on and clear inserts got shot with MM transparent black. More filling to do, but I am down to the Aves level. The overall curvature on the underside is great.


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## starmanmm (Mar 19, 2000)

Looking good there!

Hope you vid the decal application.... would like to see how you do that.


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

After all this, the decal is going to be the most nerve wracking event of them all. Only one shot at that. Winner take all. The final judgement that renders this pass or fail.


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## Vaderman (Nov 2, 2002)

Just take your time with it. I would reccoemnd cutting the wings in sections. If you cut along the feather, it should hide the cut line. I found it makes it easier to place them. If you have any problems, let me know.

Scott


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## starmanmm (Mar 19, 2000)

> After all this, the decal is going to be the most nerve wracking event of them all. Only one shot at that. Winner take all. The final judgement that renders this pass or fail.


My point.

Which is why I am looking forward to seeing how you do it.

I have made several attempts with the AMT decal and yet to get one to land good enough for me on the model.


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

starmanmm said:


> ...Which is why I am looking forward to seeing how you do it...


D'oh! Why I oughtta... Where's the smiley shaking-fist-at-sky? Where is it?!?
-

I used the JTG Bird on my amt and got slight overlaps and some tears. However, that was the beforetime of me and solvaset, microsol, other microso's and even wet-water and floor wax, so that AMT was a good lesson for how not to do it. 

I will get new blades for my xacto. As much as I hate the idea of slicing this gorgeous decal (which I will make a 600dpi master scan as backup, of course), I will have to slice it. 

I get ahead of myself. I still have a few rounds of Aves ahead of me. I am glad I can talk in terms of decal at this point though.


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## aric (Jun 23, 2009)

Model Man said:


> I will get new blades for my xacto. As much as I hate the idea of slicing this gorgeous decal (which I will make a 600dpi master scan as backup, of course), I will have to slice it.


please , please, film laying down that decal, even if it has to be cut


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## starmanmm (Mar 19, 2000)

by Model Man


> D'oh! Why I oughtta... Where's the smiley shaking-fist-at-sky? Where is it?!?
> -


I didn't mean anything negative by my remark.  

I have found it tough to do large decals and I am hoping to learn from how you will be doing it.

My AMT Bird of Prey did not do well at a show and the reason was that the decal was not present on the kit. Reason, I tried to put it on several times but just kept messing it up.

Sorry if my statement made it sound like something else.


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## slingshot392 (Nov 27, 2008)

Lights look great!


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

starmanmm said:


> Sorry if my statement made it sound like something else.



I was joking around, dude! I thought my phrasing was stereotypically over the top enough that it didn't need a smiley face. Guess it did. :wave:

An animated gif of Steve Colbert shaking his fist at the sky would have worked too, while shouting "Starrrrmannnnnmmmm!!!" :lol::lol:


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## starmanmm (Mar 19, 2000)

:freak:

:jest::lol::lol:


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

Gittin' thar is the title for this installment and covers the situ well. The bottom hull nears the smooth and subtle angle I was aiming for. A nacelle snapped off, but went right back on quite easily.


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## starmanmm (Mar 19, 2000)

The over spray on the FO can probably be delt with by using wet/dry 800 or finer.


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

That would be ideal if I had used any fiber in this one.  
No, I backed the inside walls with wax paper to diffuse the light.


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## starmanmm (Mar 19, 2000)

Ouch.... still, might work if there is a questionable one. Just don't press to hard and it might work. Heck, maybe try a simple pencil eraser first?


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## slingshot392 (Nov 27, 2008)

Man, you are sure persevering with this! Looking good.

For those hard to get to areas on the sides of the fuselage by the nacelles, what might work is taking a 1/4" piece of balsa wood maybe two or 3 inches wide and then cut and sand smooth one edge maybe a 45° angle if that would be enough room to clear the nacelle. Then you could either use some spray adhesive or double-sided tape to stick on some sandpaper, that might make it easy to reach that area and very easy to change grits. The tape should stick, but if you're having trouble, you can always sand that area smooth and then put on a couple coats of white glue to fill in the grain.


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

Looks like I forgot to post this installment from 10/12!





And here's the most recent update from today.





Very few minor putty spot to go, we're just about on final paint and then that dreaded decal!!!!

There's another one of these models with some incredible work going into it on the board right now. It was mis-posted in the TV section, so hopefully it doesn't get lost in there.


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

With all the talk of the 350 TOS 1701 coming along, I hope folks will avail themselves of this fine model kit while it is around!


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## hal9001 (May 28, 2008)

Good Golly Miss Molly Model Man, how many models do you build A DAY? At the rate you're going there's not going to be any models for the rest of us to buy by the year 2012!

_Please_ tell me you're not taking them in the back yard and sticking firecrackers up their wazoos! :lol: That brings back memories though doesn't it?

If Model Man modeled a million models a million millennium how many models would Model Man model if he modeled models madly model after model millennium after millennium madly modeling to model a million models millennium after millennium...I gotta quit, I'm getting a headache :freak:

hal9001-


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

heheheh.

I averaged just over 30 models/year over the last 2 years. 

This year, I'm at 7 and these would make about 15 this year. SO I'm way behind the curve.

I am designating some models for firecrackering, but not this one. I've got a camera that shoots 300fps and that pretty much demands explosions be done.

Here's an example:


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

Back to the model:
Once the vinyl window masks are in place, what should be the final primer layer can go on. I'm studying various gray paints now and will likely experiment with the airbrush on creating some panel lines. Then, the decal!


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## Griffworks (Jun 24, 2002)

Lookin' really nice, MM! :thumbsup: 

.


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## bccanfield (Nov 17, 2002)

This was one of the best posts I have seen in a while. I spent about an hour and a half watching though all the videos. This was all very interesting. I know its not fun showing the errors and mistakes that pop up during construction, but it was very useful to see how you were able to make fixes and repairs to get back on track.


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## aric (Jun 23, 2009)

it looks outstanding.:thumbsup:


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

It's getting along! 

Instead of barreling through to paint, I'm going to take a little more time and address several glaring errors on my part that, if left alone, would severely detract from the final piece.


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## starmanmm (Mar 19, 2000)

Hey, don't worry about dead lines.... this kit is for you.

Take your time, for you are doing fine.

Not a race, so enjoy the New Year!! :hat:


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

Not worried about deadlines as such; just fighting between the anxiety of wrapping it up and pushing that last 10%. The 10% wins cos I know how crappy I'll feel down the road. 

It's on the bench now waiting for me to finish up at my job. My last day keeps getting pushed and workload builds. I expected to be out of work two weeks ago so as to get lots o' modelling in... Not that I'm complainin'!  The unexpected paychecks will be quite useful (not for models though).

Thanks for tuning in, Star. Always appreciated.


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)




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## starmanmm (Mar 19, 2000)

Nice up date.

Good luck with the hole you want to cut after all the work you have done on this. But, from what I have seen, you'll do a great job!


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