# Wicked Witch of the West 1/8 Polar Lights!



## MEGA1

Hey guys, we finally got all of the information necessary to post the new Wicked Witch of the West model kit from Polar Lights! It is 1/8 scale, and will be offered as a snap kit with paint required (and not included). The monkey in the picture is not included, it will be sold separately from Round 2 and we will post that for sale when we have the necessary info. In the meantime, we're now accepting preorders for this kit, it should be released sometime in mid-2014. Let us know what you think of the test shot!


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## djnick66

Looks cool. I can't imagine selling just one monkey by itself so perhaps they come several in a box as some people had wanted a bunch.


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## John P

Poor lonely monkey.


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## John P

Who's gonna sculpt a Mila Kunis head for this?


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## BrianM

Looks good, but I don't get the point of selling the monkey separately.


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## Trek Ace

[Clouseau]The minkey is not incleuded with the kit?[/Clouseau]


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## MEGA1

We're still wrapping our head around the "monkey sold separately" idea, but we'll get around that somehow. Whether we need to sell them together as a discounted bundle, or make some sort of deal with Round 2, we'll make it work for you guys.


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## Jimmy B

Trek Ace said:


> [Clouseau]The minkey is not incleuded with the kit?[/Clouseau]


:lol::lol::lol:

Pelhops thee minkey need a sepalate lisaunse


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## mcdougall

Do a whole set....

OH I forgot...
Flying Monkees...

Should work
Denis


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## MightyMax

My Wife is a HUGE Oz fan, especially the Witch. Our daughter played the WW in her High School play.

I will be needing to get this and the Monkey is a no brainer! So I am glad you may bundle these as a 'special' 
My wife is in the room and I am resisting temptation to show her this model. I think it is best to keep it a secret and actually present it to her all built up....

Cheers
Max Bryant


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## deadmanincfan

So are all the new PL figure kits going to be snap kits or resin? Seems like it...


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## MEGA1

deadmanincfan said:


> So are all the new PL figure kits going to be snap kits or resin? Seems like it...


Seems like they're going in this route, which is interesting, since they've mainly done plastic in the past. Interesting to see how they progress.


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## Tim Casey

I'll be preordering it as soon as you figure out how to add your filthy minkey to the package.

(To tell the truth, I want this model NOW!)

"The monkey does not tell me what to play and I don't tell him how to spend his money..." :tongue:


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## djnick66

deadmanincfan said:


> So are all the new PL figure kits going to be snap kits or resin? Seems like it...


since it says a snap kit I assume that is plastic. Never saw a snap together resin kit before.


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## BWolfe

deadmanincfan said:


> So are all the new PL figure kits going to be snap kits or resin? Seems like it...


I don't care if they are snap kits, just as long as they are styrene or abs, not resin.


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## MEGA1

djnick66 said:


> since it says a snap kit I assume that is plastic. Never saw a snap together resin kit before.


I think he means snap together OR resin -- since their rumored King Kong kit is going to be resin, and some of their other new announcements seem to be snap together, but paint-needed plastic kits.


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## Zombie_61

I'm probably one of the few people who likes the idea that they'll be selling the flying minkey separately. I couldn't care less about the witch, and I was thinking I'd have to buy the whole kit just to get the minkey. :lol:


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## robiwon

I hope that is not the full base we see here. Are we really meant to just lay the broom on the table next to the base? Maybe the monkey will come with an added section of base. That globe is also going to have a nasty seam line on it too. I hope they can make the globe thin enough to reduce distortion.

Plastic or resin, I'm good.


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## John P

Am I the only one who looks at the pic and finds _nothing _to whine about?


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## djnick66

John P said:


> Am I the only one who looks at the pic and finds _nothing _to whine about?


The internet was made for whining. No matter what it is, how good it is, or if the person doing the whining won't even buy it anyway, the internet now gives them a megaphone to voice disapproval.


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## robiwon

Whining? No. Wishful thinking and wondering? Yes. Stating thoughts on a discussion forum, that's what were here for. Sorry, but just because it's a PL kit does not mean perfection. That clear globe (photoshopped in the picture) is not going to look like that on the finished model. What's the point of including a broom in a diorama just to lay it on the table? And then not to even include the monkey that is seen in the picture? Sometimes I wonder what PL is thinking at times....

I want my Monkey!!!


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## starduster

Monkey or no monkey I like the kit and will definitely be getting this kit and the monkey if that's the case, thank you Polar Lights for making this kit. Karl


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## Tim Casey

I'm sicked and tired of people who are sick and tired about people who are sick and tired....


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## Vardor

John P said:


> Who's gonna sculpt a Mila Kunis head for this?


John,

Why would you want to put Mila's head on a monkey? :tongue:


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## Xenodyssey

Being an Oz fan as well I'll be getting both. I think I'll make some larger wings for the monkey though.


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## robiwon

All in all, this going to be a great kit. I was at the announcement at Wonderfest when PL told us about it. Plastic snapper is good for me. Hopefully PL continues with more diverse figure kits.


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## BatToys

They should include the monkey with the kit. They can always sell monkeys separately.

The broom looks awkward not on the base.


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## walsing

I don't usually do figures but this one interests me. Mostly because of reading the book Wicked. I kinda liked Elphaba.


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## deadmanincfan

Gee, didn't know commenting that all the new PL figure kits seemed to be snap-togethers or resin kits was whining...


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## robiwon

deadmanincfan said:


> Gee, didn't know commenting that all the new PL figure kits seemed to be snap-togethers or resin kits was whining...


Apparently, so I said something nice.


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## miniature sun

That globe will have to be moulded in two halves as I don't know of any injection or vacform process that will give a single-piece globe with a hole in that is smaller than the outside diameter. Also the base and figures within the globe are wider than the aperture meaning the globe has to be assembled around the figures.
I wonder whether anyone can come up with a solution maybe in cast resin or even glass?


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## John P

See also the ongoing discussion in the Moebius forum about the Lost in Space robot's glass dome head piece.


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## GordonMitchell

I'm putting my 2 pence/cents worth in I've nothing to whine about apparently(according to the wife):jest:
looking forward to all of the kits from Polar coming resin or plastic just need to find the cash my only complaint is shame this kind of quality wasn't available when we were all 25 or so years younger,yeah I know the manufacturers were not interested in the sci-fi and fantasy market then only military or popular cars etc,I'll retire and just when I thinkI have time to build all these I'll probably pop my clogs:devil:
cheers and a Happy New Year to all in adavance
Gordon


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## mcdougall

This might work... http://www.ebay.com/itm/Small-Glitt...045?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ecc803d8d

....or just Blow your own :thumbsup:
Denis


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## djnick66

That would work if it has a large opening in the bottom. I found a round light bulb that would do the trick but cutting the bottom off is not easy as its so thin. I suppose with a box of 50 bulbs you might be able to get one...


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## mcdougall




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## ChrisW

I swear, there must be video on Youtube for practically anything!


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## djnick66

Yeah but these small round bulbs are about half as thick as a regular big bulb. But that is probably the same technique. The trick here is since they are round you have to cut right against the metal collar


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## mcdougall

Yeah that Dremil thing might be touch and go...
I'm going to check out Michaels...They usually have glass and plastic clear globes. They had Clear Christmas ornaments and they will probably be on sale right about now. 
Denis


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## deadmanincfan

Meanwhile, we lay in reference materials!


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## bigdaddydaveh

Anyone know what the diameter is going to be on the globe? I have an older LED light bulb I bought when they first came out that had a screw on glass globe. I'm hoping it's the correct diameter for this. A lot of the newer LED bulbs have round globes that would likely work and should be easy to disassemble.


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## djnick66

Probably about an inch and a half?


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## TAY666

BatToys said:


> They should include the monkey with the kit. They can always sell monkeys separately.
> 
> The broom looks awkward not on the base.


That is because it is for the optional hands to hold the broom.

Kind of like the old PS kits, that gave you options on arms, and different tool to go with those.


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## modelsaretherapy

*where is Toto*

Very interesting the time it takes to get this model out for production and purchase. I am waiting for this model to come out!! It would be good timing since the Wizard Of Oz movie had its 75th Anniversary last year, marking it with the 3D version of the movie in the theaters.
I wish Toto was included in the model. How could Toto be left out.? Maybe Toto will also be sold separately.


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## eradicator178

Man, I can not wait to get my grimey little paws on this kit!! Get it paws :tongue:


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## Y3a

Will their be a Mila Kunis head?


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## John P

_*WARNING:*_ Do not paint this model with _water_colors!!










:tongue:


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## deadmanincfan

:jest:


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## Zombie_61

John P said:


> _*WARNING:*_ Do not paint this model with _water_colors!!


Wait...aren't acrylic paints water based? Sounds to me like y'all need to break out 'yer enamels! :devil:


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## rtbeuke

John P said:


> _*WARNING:*_ Do not paint this model with _water_colors!!
> :tongue:


Got it!

I'm melting, I'm melting!
:tongue:


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## SJF

John P said:


> _*WARNING:*_ Do not paint this model with _water_colors!!
> 
> :tongue:


Heheheheheheheh. 

Sean


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## wander1107

My wife and I love this movie. We had the unfortunate experience of setting it up for our kids on a long road trip back in 1999. We're in the front, I'm driving and the kids are watching the movie on my laptop in the back. The only thing my wife and I could hear was Dorothy screaming, and she screams a lot through the whole movie. Needless to say we didn't watch the movie for many years.

I'll be picking this up for her as a gift. I'm in for the monkey too.


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## mcdougall

Just saw this on Facebook Megahobby

We've just gotten word that Round 2 will not be producing the Wicked Witch kit by Polar Lights or the MPC Pepsi Vending Machine Show Rod Car. If you had either of these kits on preorder, we have already sent you an email with information, please be sure to check it and contact us if you have any questions. We apologize for any inconvenience.


https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=10152221817212023&id=274118462022

licensing issues ?
Let the bitching begin...








Mcdee


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## BobbysMonsterModels

Well, that sucks. I was really looking forward to this release.


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## MEGA1

mcdougall said:


> Just saw this on Facebook Megahobby
> 
> We've just gotten word that Round 2 will not be producing the Wicked Witch kit by Polar Lights or the MPC Pepsi Vending Machine Show Rod Car. If you had either of these kits on preorder, we have already sent you an email with information, please be sure to check it and contact us if you have any questions. We apologize for any inconvenience.
> 
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=10152221817212023&id=274118462022
> 
> licensing issues ?
> Mcdee


You beat me to it!!

Yes, unfortunately the news is correct, Wicked Witch has been cancelled. Too bad, we were really looking forward to that one. Maybe sometime in the future!


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## robiwon

Oh wow, I am not telling my wife! I'll have to keep her away from R2's booth at WF!


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## SUNGOD

Even though it wasn't top of my figure kit wants it's still a bummer as I was looking forward to it.

I bet you all it's because R2 want to start making figures in resin as it's much cheaper.


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## BWolfe

I have lost any remaining respect for Round 2. First, they do not issue the C57-D light kit as a separate item for those of us who have already bought the basic model. Then they start making figure kits in resin which I WILL NOT buy under any conditions and now they are pulling the plug on the Wicked Witch kit What's next, the anticipated Galileo shuttlecraft model will be issued as a vacu-form kit?


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## SUNGOD

BWolfe said:


> I have lost any remaining respect for Round 2. First, they do not issue the C57-D light kit as a separate item for those of us who have already bought the basic model. Then they start making figure kits in resin which I WILL NOT buy under any conditions and now they are pulling the plug on the Wicked Witch kit What's next, the anticipated Galileo shuttlecraft model will be issued as a vacu-form kit?







I think anyone who wants more plastic figure kits should boycott any resin figure kits by the big companies otherwise they'll just stop making plastic figure kits altogether.

Leave the resin for the garage guys.


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## BobbysMonsterModels

What figure kits is Round2 making in resin? I guess I'm out of the loop.
Not that I really care. I've never done a resin kit.


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## John P

Wow. It's a good thing no other model company has ever cancelled a kit so you don't lose your respect for them too! :freak:


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## Jimmy B

Well that sucks. 
Say is there any cheese and crackers left?


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## Mark McGovern

Jimmy B said:


> Say is there any cheese and crackers left?


Jimmy,

With all this whining, I doubt it.

This company, for which so many members of this forum say they have lost respect, was the reason this forum was originated in the first place. Back in the mid-nineties, it was Polar Lights that first picked up the torch dropped by Aurora almost two decades earlier. I've lost track of the reissues the company put out when it was owned by Playing Mantis. Then after a two year hiatus, instead of resting on his laurels, Tom Lowe revived Polar Lights under Round 2 - at the same time also reviving AMT, MPC, and now Hawk, Lindberg, and Testors.

Okay, the Wicked Witch of the West isn't coming out. Well, PL also announced a model of the 1998 Godzilla and withdrew that, too. Those are two projects I can name off the top of my head against how many Aurora, Star Trek, Strange Change, and Dark Shadows reissues, not to mention the new PL models of Wolverine, Superman, and the Forbidden Planet subjects - and that's just the Sci-Fi/Horror stuff.

If all the complainers had built _every single one_ of the kits in their stash, with nothing left to build except the Wicked Witch, I could see their point. But a lot of what I've read thus far makes me wonder whether some of the members of these forums deal this poorly with life's disappointments away from their workbenches.


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## Rob P.

Not going to lose any sleep over this. The Aurora monster kits and the MPC dark shadows kits, particularly Barnabas, that Polar Lights went to the trouble to bring out were fantastic to get again as an adult. I got plenty to build and ideas for my own scratch builds, I'll keep busy.

Rob


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## BobbysMonsterModels

Mark McGovern said:


> If all the complainers had built _every single one_ of the kits in their stash, with nothing left to build except the Wicked Witch, I could see their point.


LOL…true. I have a huge pile of "to-do's".
Whoever created this Wicked Witch does have an awesome sculpt sitting on his shelf now, and a nice one for his portfolio. It would have been a great piece to paint. Ah well, 'dems da breaks, I am looking forward to that Alien Queen as well. Does anyone know if she's a definite? Just curious.


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## Rob P.

This summer. I actually hope this one gets made. Not for me but for my youngest son, he is a huge fan of the Alien and Predator characters and is currently working on both the MPC Alien and the Halcyon Predator. For 9 he is doing an admirable job as the Halcyon is not an easy kit. 

BTW, if any model makers are listening in, his number one wish is for a Pred-Alien model.

Rob


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## Tim Casey

Maybe a garage kit producer will pick this one up in resin. I'd buy it in a heartbeat. :wave:


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## BWolfe

John P said:


> Wow. It's a good thing no other model company has ever cancelled a kit so you don't lose your respect for them too! :freak:


If you bothered to read my post, you would see some of tghe reasons for my loss of respect, it is not just about the WW model, but the other things mentioned and more.


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## John P

Of course I read your post. It made me laugh hysterically and roll my eyes. Then I felt a little sad for you, and people who know you.


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## Mark McGovern

BWolfe said:


> ...but the other things mentioned and more.


Mr. Wolfe,

I'm surprised it's the C-57D lighting kit you're upset about, when Polar Lights has issued so many expensive add-ons for the 1/350 TOS _Enterprise_. Surely one or another of the electronic aftermarketeers out there will come up with a light kit for the model.

Nor do I understand your aversion to resin kits. They usually come with fewer parts, meaning less seams to fill; plus the detail that can be captured in resin is far greater than that possible with injection-molded models. If PL can manufacture them cheaper than injection-molded kits, we should be happy about it.


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## Frankie Boy

BWolfe said:


> I have lost any remaining respect for Round 2. ...


I, too, am a little bummed that the plug was pulled on the Wicked Witch kit. On the other hand, I think that we should all feel damn lucky that anybody is making any plastic figure kits at all.


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## Frankie Boy

Mark McGovern said:


> This company, for which so many members of this forum say they have lost respect, was the reason this forum was originated in the first place. Back in the mid-nineties, it was Polar Lights that first picked up the torch dropped by Aurora almost two decades earlier.


My point exactly.


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## Atlantis1

The Witch sculpt was not very good, hunched over like that. It would have sold poorly with no mass market to take a piece of the run. I can't tell you guys how many kits a certain distributor has on closeout in the Figure, sci-fi and model car categories. Stuff released less than 6 months ago. I am sure PL crunched the numbers on the witch and they did make any sense at all.

Pete


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## Jimmy B

Mark McGovern said:


> Jimmy,
> 
> With all this whining, I doubt it.
> 
> This company, for which so many members of this forum say they have lost respect, was the reason this forum was originated in the first place. Back in the mid-nineties, it was Polar Lights that first picked up the torch dropped by Aurora almost two decades earlier. I've lost track of the reissues the company put out when it was owned by Playing Mantis. Then after a two year hiatus, instead of resting on his laurels, Tom Lowe revived Polar Lights under Round 2 - at the same time also reviving AMT, MPC, and now Hawk, Lindberg, and Testors.
> 
> Okay, the Wicked Witch of the West isn't coming out. Well, PL also announced a model of the 1998 Godzilla and withdrew that, too. Those are two projects I can name off the top of my head against how many Aurora, Star Trek, Strange Change, and Dark Shadows reissues, not to mention the new PL models of Wolverine, Superman, and the Forbidden Planet subjects - and that's just the Sci-Fi/Horror stuff.
> 
> If all the complainers had built _every single one_ of the kits in their stash, with nothing left to build except the Wicked Witch, I could see their point. But a lot of what I've read thus far makes me wonder whether some of the members of these forums deal this poorly with life's disappointments away from their workbenches.


Thanks Mark - I agree every word. I've said it before and I'll say it again: when I reach the pinical in life where a model not being released is my biggest problem in life, I'll be a happy happy man.


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## BobbysMonsterModels

Rob P. said:


> ….my youngest son, he is a huge fan of the Alien and Predator characters….


That makes two of us!
Rob, as you know I am also a huge toy collector as well. I have a ton of Alien/Predator toys that I have amassed over the years. McFarlane Toys, and especially NECA, have released tons of them. I have everything that McFarlane released for this property, as well as a good portion of the NECA stuff. Has your son delved into these toys? He'd love 'em! Below is NECA's line of Predators. I have all of them up to the Red Predator, which I sorely missed, then I stopped collecting them (I also do not own the "cloaked" figures).










Here are a couple of "loose" NECA Predators sitting in my old toyroom. These things are well articulated, and painted beautifully. I was really into these toys:


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## BWolfe

John P said:


> Of course I read your post. It made me laugh hysterically and roll my eyes. Then I felt a little sad for you, and people who know you.


Pathetic, not even worth a response.


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## Griffworks

OK, folks - let's remember to respect the opinions of others and not attack someone just because we disagree with them. I've always subscribed to the mindset of when you get to the point where you insult someone with whom you disagree with, it simply proves you've no salient points with which to "argue" your viewpoint. 

So, that being said, I don't want to see any more insults or the like in the thread, please. And by "please", *I mean I'll just go ahead and start throwing 7 Day Time Outs to those who feel the need to continue that line of discussion.* 

On the other tentacle, just because a company has canceled a couple of kits is no reason to get all upset. If I got upset over every company that canceled a kit, Id have no respect for ANY model company, because they've all canceled a kit at some point in their run. 

As to resin kits - what's the issue? I've been dozens of non-styrene kits in my life. The only negative I have for resin is that it's not all that easy to cut up to modify for kitbashing. Otherwise, it's not really any different in how it looks when the subject kit is completed. Some times, the detail is even sharper than what you get from styrene. So, why limit yourself to _only_ styrene?


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## Y3a

While I am disappointed that the Wicked Witch has been cancelled, I still have respect for ALL the plastic and resin model companies out there. Designing kits in materials that shrink a little as they cool, getting all those parts to fit, and producing the right design of 'tree' so all the parts get filled with melted plastic is not for beginners. I did notice the complainers had low numbers of posts. Newbies??


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## ChrisW

Atlantis1 said:


> The Witch sculpt was not very good, hunched over like that. It would have sold poorly with no mass market to take a piece of the run. I can't tell you guys how many kits a certain distributor has on closeout in the Figure, sci-fi and model car categories. Stuff released less than 6 months ago. I am sure PL crunched the numbers on the witch and they did make any sense at all.
> 
> Pete


You beat me to it Pete. I was on said site a few weeks ago and marvelled at the variety.


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## RB

Y3a said:


> While I am disappointed that the Wicked Witch has been cancelled, I still have respect for ALL the plastic and resin model companies out there. Designing kits in materials that shrink a little as they cool, getting all those parts to fit, and producing the right design of 'tree' so all the parts get filled with melted plastic is not for beginners. I did notice the complainers had low numbers of posts. Newbies??


I don't really have a dog in this fight (although I was really looking forward to the Witch kit). But a few of us have been on this board since the late 90's and have a low number of posts ( I had a few more before the board reset). Some of us just aren't as prolific as you, Y3a!


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## BobbysMonsterModels

Griffworks said:


> So, why limit yourself to _only_ styrene?


I think for alot of folks it's the cost ($$$). Resin kits are, for the most part, fairly expensive. I can afford them but, me, I just like the plastic stuff because it takes me back to building as a kid…I like gluing tons of pieces together. It's a medium I enjoy. It's like telling an oil painter, to drop it and pick up watercolors…or telling a clay sculptor to start chiseling stone. Okay, well maybe it's not that extreme, LOL. I'm a styrene guy. I've never built a resin kit, but that's not to say I'm against them for any reason at all. I did buy a resin Capt. Kidd years back, but have yet to mess with it. That being said, I don't see anything wrong with voicing disappointment. It's part of life. But catfights, namecalling, accusing model companies of being evil entities, well, that's maybe for an anger management forum. I honestly don't think anyone is going to lose any sleep over not getting their Wicked Witch Oz model, but yeah, seeing it's not being produced is a major disappointment. Being modelers, we all have _that one figure_ we were looking forward to being released in the coming year, and for me the Wicked Witch and the Alien Queen were at the top of my list (I hope that's still a go). But hey, Monarch is releasing Dracula/Jekyll/Hyde, so this makes up for it for me. Calm down everyone…the world is not coming to an end. Dig into your surplus pile of kits, and be glad you have _them_. Things could be worse….Moebius and Monarch could implode…then we'd all be sitting around here crying.


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## BobbysMonsterModels

On a side note, I would love to see another styrene witch, _of some sort_, down the road. This kit here makes me salivate (not over the witch, mind you…..hehehehe).


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## nautilusnut

Well i was really looking forward to this kit as I'm a huge fan of the Wizard of Oz. I really think the pose of the kit could have been much better and certainly she should be looking at the globe. The monkey should be included too. 

That said i hope one day these kits will appear as I would love to have all the characters with interlocking bases. If you did the witch melting scene you could get everyone-including a Winkie!


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## Rob P.

Bobby, Great Predator figures, never knew there were so many. However, Wyatt wants to build them! He He He! So hope continues for the Alien Queen kit.

I agree with you on the nostalgia factor for styrene! I have a few resin items and one full kit to build. But there will be styrene and other scratch build components to each of them, when I get to them. Give me some basic kits and let my imagination loose, and I will come up with scenes and dioramas that I like, similar eventually to that witch picture you have posted. So far I have gone from this guy with just an added dead bush..........



To this guy with a complete scratchbuild base and modified prison pal...........



I am working towards that Witch type detail!

So I guess I am thankful for the model kit manufactures supplying me with the basics so far! 

Rob


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## John P

Nm....


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## Zorro

I heard through the grapevine that PL has a Rodney Dangerfield kit in the works. It's made with a particular kind of resin that sweats a lot.


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## Aurora-brat

I've lost all respect for Rodney Dangerfield kits...


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## Frankie Boy

Aurora-brat said:


> I've lost all respect for Rodney Dangerfield kits...


LOL! Good one.


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## Griffworks

BobbysMonsterModels said:


> I think for alot of folks it's the cost ($$$). Resin kits are, for the most part, fairly expensive. I can afford them but, me, I just like the plastic stuff because it takes me back to building as a kid…I like gluing tons of pieces together. It's a medium I enjoy. It's like telling an oil painter, to drop it and pick up watercolors…or telling a clay sculptor to start chiseling stone. Okay, well maybe it's not that extreme, LOL. I'm a styrene guy. I've never built a resin kit, but that's not to say I'm against them for any reason at all. I did buy a resin Capt. Kidd years back, but have yet to mess with it. That being said, I don't see anything wrong with voicing disappointment. It's part of life. But catfights, namecalling, accusing model companies of being evil entities, well, that's maybe for an anger management forum. I honestly don't think anyone is going to lose any sleep over not getting their Wicked Witch Oz model, but yeah, seeing it's not being produced is a major disappointment. Being modelers, we all have _that one figure_ we were looking forward to being released in the coming year, and for me the Wicked Witch and the Alien Queen were at the top of my list (I hope that's still a go). But hey, Monarch is releasing Dracula/Jekyll/Hyde, so this makes up for it for me. Calm down everyone…the world is not coming to an end. Dig into your surplus pile of kits, and be glad you have _them_. Things could be worse….Moebius and Monarch could implode…then we'd all be sitting around here crying.


Fair enough points and I certainly get that about resin kits. However, 
there are a number of kits that won't like ever be produced in plastic, yet are in resin. That's what got me initially started on resin kits - skaredy-kat that I was at the time. Now I love working with resin kits and have even started delving in to 3D printed models done in acrylic medium. 

I definitely get the disappointment angle. I've been hoping that Moebius would even just respond to the inquiries about them possibly producing some 1/4105 scale BSG Rag Tag Fugitive Fleet ships. I think I'm more disappointed at their ignoring such requests than I am that they've not announced anything along the lines of those or even any of the three versions of the Cylon Basestars (TOS, "Cylon War" TOS-ish style or TNS). Maybe frustrated would be the word. 

I'd hate to see any model company go under. That's just sad in my book....


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## SUNGOD

Some people just can't seem to understand that not all modellers like resin or vinyl and that some of us don't think a resin kit's a substitute for a plastic kit. It just isn't full stop.

It's not just what it looks like finished it's the feel of the parts, their immortality compared to vinyl or resin, admiring the parts on the sprues etc, etc. 

Again my advice to anyone who wants more plastic figure kits is not to buy any more resin or vinyl kits from the plastic kit manufacturers............otherwise they'll just stop making plastic figure kits altogether. 

Also it's probably best manufacturers don't announce things until they're certain they're going ahead


----------



## BobbysMonsterModels

SUNGOD said:


> …also it's probably best manufacturers don't announce things until they're certain they're going ahead


This is something I'm not getting as well, but my vibe is the reason they announce it is to stir up interest. Didn't someone say these had been made available for preorder? Yes? No? Maybe they do stats on the preorder, and if not enough people respond, they take it as a bad sign, and shelve the idea?? I'm taking a wild guess here, as I do not understand the politics of licensing at all. I would think if anybody truly has the right to be disappointed here it would be the guy who sculpted the piece, and was sad to find out his kit was not going to make it into production. Then again if he was paid for his services to produce the sculpt in the first place, maybe it's not so bad…assuming he was paid (I have no clue about that at all). Maybe someone can shed some light on this for those of us who are clueless here? Just curious…


Lastly, I don't think styrene kits are going to go away. I would think they're cheaper to mass produce, and alot lighter, which would make shipping cheaper (from China). Someone mentioned Round2 doing resin. What kits are they doing in resin…again, just curious.


----------



## SUNGOD

BobbysMonsterModels said:


> This is something I'm not getting as well, but my vibe is the reason they announce it is to stir up interest. Didn't someone say these had been made available for preorder? Yes? No? Maybe they do stats on the preorder, and if not enough people respond, they take it as a bad sign, and shelve the idea?? I'm taking a wild guess here, as I do not understand the politics of licensing at all. I would think if anybody truly has the right to be disappointed here it would be the guy who sculpted the piece, and was sad to find out his kit was not going to make it into production. Then again if he was paid for his services to produce the sculpt in the first place, maybe it's not so bad…assuming he was paid (I have no clue about that at all). Maybe someone can shed some light on this for those of us who are clueless here? Just curious…
> 
> 
> Lastly, I don't think styrene kits are going to go away. I would think they're cheaper to mass produce, and alot lighter, which would make shipping cheaper (from China). Someone mentioned Round2 doing resin. What kits are they doing in resin…again, just curious.








Maybe it's to stir up interest but I wonder how accurate the results would be anyway.
As for R2 doing resin well they're doing Kong and Kane (Alien) in the stuff saying it's better for detail. Maybe so but I'd rather have slightly less detail and to have them made of plastic. What they might gain in detail is outweighed to me because it's made of an inferior material.

Plastic kits have much better detail these days anyway.


----------



## Aurora-brat

Folks it's really not that complicated. To tool up an injection molded styrene kit costs tens of thousands of dollars, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars. In order to even break even, they would have to sell tens of thousands of kits. And that is in addition to paying someone to sculpt the master pattern. However, if they don't think a subject has the potential of selling that many kits, resin is a much cheaper alternative. Resin uses silicone rubber molds to produce parts as opposed to steel molds required to produce styrene kits. Rubber molds generally cost hundreds to a couple of thousand dollars to make and can yield up to a hundred of so kits. They are ideal for low production numbers.

For years, only the garage kit producers used rubber molds, but now the big boys are finding they can compete with the garage kit producers and use the same system. This is to our advantage since the big guys generally hold the licenses for the more popular subjects that the garage kit guys couldn't afford.

From where I'm standing, its a win/win situation as if you want something that isn't all that popular, and doesn't warrant the cost of tooling up and injection mold, it can still see the light of day as a resin kit.

And as others have pointed out, these are not really any harder to build than styrene. But they do tend to be a little more expensive.

Tory


----------



## Disco58

Add one more name to the list of head scratchers. Since the monkey is such an integral part of that scene, why would it not be part of the kit?


----------



## Mark McGovern

SUNGOD said:


> What they might gain in detail is outweighed to me because it's made of an inferior material.


SUNGOD,

How is resin an inferior material to injection molded plastic? I've never seen any qualitative difference between the two materials. I will reiterate that the flexible rubber molds used for resin and vinyl kits allow a level of detail that can never be matched by the injection-molding process. Some detail will always have to be sacrificed to avoid the undercuts that could lock a part into the rigid steel mold.

Having said that, I love building injection-molded plastic kits, too - and I have little sympathy for the exclusive resin/vinyl builders who whine about the difficulties of adjusting parts fit or filling gaps. That's part of the game. But if a model I want to build, like our own Facto 2's Curse of the Demon kit, is only available in resin, then that's what I'll build.

What we should be worried more about is the 3-D printing process, which may make plastic model kits obsolete.


----------



## Trek Ace

I've really never cared what medium a kit is in - styrene, ABS, resin, wood, metal, fiberglass, etc. It's just material. It's the finished product that counts. I do find it amusing, however, when there is a rant from someone about resin parts not sticking together with glue from the orange tube. 

While I am disappointed that the Wicked Witch kit isn't coming out, there are certainly more than enough other new kits to work on and look forward to. Perhaps a garage kitter will come out with the witch that even includes a flying monkey.


----------



## SUNGOD

Mark McGovern said:


> SUNGOD,
> 
> How is resin an inferior material to injection molded plastic? I've never seen any qualitative difference between the two materials. I will reiterate that the flexible rubber molds used for resin and vinyl kits allow a level of detail that can never be matched by the injection-molding process. Some detail will always have to be sacrificed to avoid the undercuts that could lock a part into the rigid steel mold.
> 
> Having said that, I love building injection-molded plastic kits, too - and I have little sympathy for the exclusive resin/vinyl builders who whine about the difficulties of adjusting parts fit or filling gaps. That's part of the game. But if a model I want to build, like our own Facto 2's Curse of the Demon kit, is only available in resin, then that's what I'll build.
> 
> What we should be worried more about is the 3-D printing process, which may make plastic model kits obsolete.







Because it's a cheap form of plastic that often has air bubbles, is brittle, is harder to work with and is nowhere near as strong. Ok you can get some finer detail and it's much cheaper to make kits from but it's still not injection plastic.

It's great for garage guys but I don't want to see companies like R2 dropping injection figure kits for garage kits.


----------



## SUNGOD

Trek Ace said:


> I've really never cared what medium a kit is in - styrene, ABS, resin, wood, metal, fiberglass, etc. It's just material. It's the finished product that counts. I do find it amusing, however, when there is a rant from someone about resin parts not sticking together with glue from the orange tube.
> 
> While I am disappointed that the Wicked Witch kit isn't coming out, there are certainly more than enough other new kits to work on and look forward to. Perhaps a garage kitter will come out with the witch that even includes a flying monkey.





But some of us don't think it's just the finished product that counts. There's more to it than that.


----------



## SUNGOD

Aurora-brat said:


> Folks it's really not that complicated. To tool up an injection molded styrene kit costs tens of thousands of dollars, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars. In order to even break even, they would have to sell tens of thousands of kits. And that is in addition to paying someone to sculpt the master pattern. However, if they don't think a subject has the potential of selling that many kits, resin is a much cheaper alternative. Resin uses silicone rubber molds to produce parts as opposed to steel molds required to produce styrene kits. Rubber molds generally cost hundreds to a couple of thousand dollars to make and can yield up to a hundred of so kits. They are ideal for low production numbers.
> 
> For years, only the garage kit producers used rubber molds, but now the big boys are finding they can compete with the garage kit producers and use the same system. This is to our advantage since the big guys generally hold the licenses for the more popular subjects that the garage kit guys couldn't afford.
> 
> From where I'm standing, its a win/win situation as if you want something that isn't all that popular, and doesn't warrant the cost of tooling up and injection mold, it can still see the light of day as a resin kit.
> 
> And as others have pointed out, these are not really any harder to build than styrene. But they do tend to be a little more expensive.
> 
> Tory






Yes but most modellers don't look to companies like R2 to produce resin garage kits. They look to them for plastic kits. Anyone can make a garage kit if they hire a pattern maker or do it themselves but they can't make an injection plastic kit. 

That's another thing I like about plastic kits. They're something special that can't be made in your garage.


----------



## Trek Ace

SUNGOD said:


> But some of us don't think it's just the finished product that counts. There's more to it than that.


It's always the finished product that counts.

I don't understand and can't comprehend this "material phobia" that's out there. You've never built a wooden airplane? Never used photoetch? Never used any glue than the orange (or blue) tube cement?

I guess it's just because I am not only old, but "old school". When I was a kid, there were no plastic model kits. They didn't really start showing up until I was in high school, and even those were ABS! To me, a model is a model, is a model. As long as it has a nice finish and looks good, the material that it is made of is _immaterial_. :wave:


----------



## robiwon

Resin can yield some pretty spectacular results. And not just for figures.



This is a one piece casting, but this kit has *lots* of parts to glue together.

I don't have an issue with anyone not wanting to build a resin kit, but please don't call it inferior, only for garage modelers, wont last as long as plastic, etc. I've never seen a resin model disintegrate due to age. Both will probably outlast us.

If someone doesn't want to build a resin kit, fine. Stick with plastic for nostalgia. But I, for one, welcome resin kits. One of the benefits of a big company doing a resin kit is it will probably be cheaper than a garage kit where only 50 are made.


----------



## Mark McGovern

Tory,

You clearly have your preferences for what type of plastic models you want to build and I respect them. I'm not sure from whence your prejudices against resin models are coming. Some of your statements about resin kits are simply not accurate.

If by the word "cheap" you mean inexpensive, polystyrene or ABS are inexpensive plastics, too - otherwise model manufacturers wouldn't be using them. A resin model that has had the air pulled out in a vacuum pot and been spin cast will have few if any bubbles or pinholes. If the casting is done properly, they may have only the faintest mold-parting line to clean up. And how a solid chunk of resin can be considered "nowhere near as strong" as a hollow injection-molded assembly is hard to understand.

You say resin is hard to work with? The mating surfaces are usually solid surfaces; if pinning is necessary, it's an easy operation - no more difficult than sanding to obtain the best fit between injection-molded parts. Assemblies may still require some gap-filling, but that's par for the course. And unlike styrene or ABS plastic, one CAN use heat - hot water or a hair dryer - to warm the plastic and alter its contours.

The main reason why resin kits cost more is because they're produced in limited numbers by Garage Kit makers. Like you, I don't see any major manufacturers dropping injection-molding for resin casting. But if Polar Lights thinks it's economically feasible to make resin kits, so be it. Many of their models have a limited appeal to us small niche builders; for instance, I doubt they made an enormous profit on the Aurora Bride of Frankenstein reissue.

So it may well be that we're going to see more resin kits in our future. What scares me the most is the advent of 3-D printing, where a complete model would just be spit out of a machine instead of assembled from a kit. For the time being, there are millions of injection-molded kits out there, so if you absolutely refuse to build any other kind, my advice is to start hoarding!


----------



## John P

I've got vinyl models, resin models and plastic models. I've enjoyed building them all. The one criticism of resin I can agree with, though, is hat it can sag. Some do, some don't. I have some resin figures with outstretched arms that are fine even after a couple of decades. I also have a Starcrafts Enterprise refit saucer that sagged like the watch in a Dali painting within a year! I guess that comes down to type of resin or how well it's mixed?

Moebius did some resin kits too - their Conan figures. I have the Conan/Belit figure and it's cold-cast porcelain, which is brittle as hell and a beyotch to work with. I'm still happy I got it! 

And issuing one or two resin kits certainly does NOT mean the company is going to switch to only resin, any more than issuing cars an spaceships means they'll eventually being doing only cars.


----------



## Y3a

Trek Ace said:


> It's always the finished product that counts.
> 
> I don't understand and can't comprehend this "material phobia" that's out there. You've never built a wooden airplane? Never used photoetch? Never used any glue than the orange (or blue) tube cement?
> 
> I guess it's just because I am not only old, but "old school". When I was a kid, there were no plastic model kits. They didn't really start showing up until I was in high school, and even those were ABS! To me, a model is a model, is a model. As long as it has a nice finish and looks good, the material that it is made of is _immaterial_. :wave:


EXACTLY! I like the challenge of learning to use new materials. I love the balsa and tissue rubberband airplane kits! I learned well enough to compete with some. I bought a Lunar models Jupiter 2 back in 1986. It stayed in the box for 3 years until I had built a few much more simple VF kits. I love resin as much as injection plastics. Did all 3 large Lunar Models robots. The only model I am still apprehensive about is my 4 foot Jupiter 2 in fiberglass.

C'mon, its a hobby. Enjoy the challenge and the pride in completing it.


----------



## Frankie Boy

SUNGOD said:


> ... my advice to anyone who wants more plastic figure kits is not to buy any more resin or vinyl kits from the plastic kit manufacturers............otherwise they'll just stop making plastic figure kits altogether.


That doesn't sound like it would be a very fruitful strategy to me. The market still has to be there for plastic (and make financial sense) even if a "boycott" of resin were successful.


----------



## Frankie Boy

Mark McGovern said:


> What we should be worried more about is the 3-D printing process, which may make plastic model kits obsolete.


Why would 3-D printing render plastic obsolete? Couldn't a 3-D printer just print in plastic?


----------



## robiwon

Resin is not going away. Kits have been made in resin for a long time. Main stream companies are now seeing the bennifits of resin. That's obvious. Plastic will still be around. That's obvious. 3D printing is gaining a strong hold in the modeling hobby. That's obvious.

We will continue to see more mainstream companies using resin and maybe 3D printed parts as well. I think that is obvious as well.


----------



## BobbysMonsterModels

*Why this model was canceled:*
I was just over at the Clubhouse forum, and a guy named Phibes called Round2 yesterday. This model was canceled because of a lack of interest….."they had received too few orders to proceed with the kit". So apparently it had nothing to do with licensing, but everything to do with not receiving enough preorders, which is what I suspected, and mentioned in an earlier post yesterday. 

*Our mission:*
Get more folks interested in this hobby, and maybe that way we will one day see the Wicked Witch make it onto the model shelves at our LHS.


----------



## robiwon

Hmm, I wonder if they had released a smaller run of the Witch as a resin kit we would have seen it on shelves then.




(runs and hides.....)


----------



## Atlantis1

Why would 3-D printing render plastic obsolete??


3D printing is a far away from replacing Injection molded mass production. It is great for prototype and getting everything correct to a point. I love it and we use it all the time but we could never do any kind of production with 3d printing that's for sure. It is also very expensive to print lets say one 5" Flying Saucer.


----------



## Spockr

robiwon said:


> Hmm, I wonder if they had released a smaller run of the Witch as a resin kit we would have seen it on shelves then.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (runs and hides.....)


I'd buy two!

(Grabs my hat and heads toward the door)


----------



## robiwon

That and 3D printing, at least right now, is a very long process to get a completed part.


----------



## Frankie Boy

But how or why, in _theory_, could a 3D printer render plastic obsolete? I mean, why could a 3D printer not just simply print in plastic? 

Now maybe I don't know enough about 3D printers. Maybe they're restricted to the type of materials they can use in the reproduction process. Maybe they're not capable of reproducing the "parts on a sprue" type thing that we would expect from a plastic kit. 

What is it about 3D printers, or the 3D printing process, that would preclude them from printing in plastic, and/or why would 3D printing pose a threat to injection mold plastic production?


----------



## Spockr

Frankie Boy said:


> Why would 3-D printing render plastic obsolete? Couldn't a 3-D printer just print in plastic?





robiwon said:


> That and 3D printing, at least right now, is a very long process to get a completed part.



A very informative article on the topic of 3D printing. 

http://gizmodo.com/why-3d-printing-is-overhyped-i-should-know-i-do-it-fo-508176750


----------



## bigdaddydaveh

There just seemed to be a lot of confusion on what was actually included with the kit which may have something to do with it. It was shown mocked up with the monkeys, then one monkey, then it wasn't going to come with any monkeys and that was going to be a separate kit etc... I'm bummed. I was looking forward to that one.


----------



## robiwon

I don't know a lot about 3D printers myself, but one of the nice things is they don't need to print a part on a sprue, they can just print the part. The main problem that I see is the speed. Right now it takes a long time to print one part. I'm sure as technology progresses they will get faster and will be able to sprint smoother parts as well.

Like I aluded to earlier, my wife is very bummed about this. She loves WoOZ. and was looking forward to the kit.


----------



## SUNGOD

Trek Ace said:


> It's always the finished product that counts.
> 
> I don't understand and can't comprehend this "material phobia" that's out there. You've never built a wooden airplane? Never used photoetch? Never used any glue than the orange (or blue) tube cement?
> 
> I guess it's just because I am not only old, but "old school". When I was a kid, there were no plastic model kits. They didn't really start showing up until I was in high school, and even those were ABS! To me, a model is a model, is a model. As long as it has a nice finish and looks good, the material that it is made of is _immaterial_. :wave:






Well it might be to you Trek but it's not to everyone Some of us like to collect plastic kits as well as building them. 

I do both with some kits. I'll build a certain kit then buy another the same so I can admire the unbuilt parts and box art.


----------



## Mark McGovern

robiwon said:


> ...I'm sure as technology progresses they will get faster and will be able to print smoother parts as well...


robiwon,

I guess I'm just concerned by this new technology, just as the balsa and paper modelers of yore (I won't name names here ) may have looked questioningly at the new injection-molded kits. Certainly 3-D printer technology will get better - _and_ faster _and_ cheaper. I'm convinced that the day will come when the process of casting and molding _anything_ will be made obsolete by 3-D printing.

As I look back over what I've just written, I realize that these possibilities will be a long time in coming. And even if every manufacturer went out of business tomorrow there are enough kits out there now to keep the next generation or two busy. Still I just hate the thought of becoming a "plastic modeler of yore"...


----------



## Trek Ace

I think that 3D printing is _amazing_. I'm seriously considering getting one of those MakerBot desktop replicators and seeing what I can do with it. This old dog is more than willing to learn new tricks.


----------



## Frankie Boy

Mark McGovern said:


> I just hate the thought of becoming a "plastic modeler of yore"...


What difference would that make? If, as pointed out in the article supplied by Spockr, that 3D printers can print in a variety of materials, including most notably plastic, then all you'd be is a "plastic modeler of _now_". 

What is the metal of the mold used in conventional plastic model making? Steel? Titanium? Lets say steel for the sake of argument. So you have a steel mold injected with plastic, and — voila! at the end of the process, out pops a plastic model. Lets say Frankenstein. On the the other hand, and into the future, you have a 3D printer, with the printer set up to reproduce in plastic, and — voila! out pops your Frankenstein.


----------



## robiwon

While 3D printers will certainly get faster I don't think they will ever match the speed of a machine that squirts hot plastic in a mold and then pops out a whole tree of parts.

No, I think for our hobby of model building I don't think either of these two (one high tech the other low) will ever replace injection molded plastic models. They will both augment our kits in one way or another for sure.

However, the writing may be on the wall, R2 just cancelled a plastic figure kit while Moebius just announced a resin figure kit.


----------



## Mark McGovern

Frankie Boy said:


> ...into the future, you have a 3D printer, with the printer set up to reproduce in plastic, and — voila! out pops your Frankenstein.


Sure, but what I'm thinking is - instead of producing a Frankenstein _kit_, the printer could make a Frankenstein _figure_, complete. No gluing or filling seams necessary. And if the process becomes sophisticated enough, I can imagine the capability of printing the plastics in different colors, so the figure wouldn't require painting. We use color printers now, and some Japanese manufacturers can mold different colors of plastic on the same sprue. So my concern is that the desire to build a model oneself might be diminished since it would be far easier to just purchase a "collectible" model, as if there wasn't enough of that being done already.


----------



## eradicator178

I do vinyl, plastic and resin. It is all about the subject type to me. If it is a kit I like, I will get it. :thumbsup:


----------



## Frankie Boy

Mark McGovern said:


> Sure, but what I'm thinking is - instead of producing a Frankenstein _kit_, the printer could make a Frankenstein _figure_, complete. No gluing or filling seams necessary. ...




Oh, I see what you mean. Yes, under those circumstances, you wouldn't be buying a model (that you build) but a _figurine_ (that's already built). 

So, on that point, I'd agree with you.


----------



## mrmurph

I'll always enjoy the challenge of building a kit.


----------



## StarshipClass

Well! I'm very disappointed. I would have bought this kit--a true no-brainer: classic movie, great figure, and flying monkey and crystal ball??? A fantastic idea for a kit. Too bad it didn't make the cut.


----------



## Griffworks

The magic of 3D printing got me my Grail Kit of a 1/4105 scale _Celestra_ for my RagTag Fugitive Fleet. 






That model is 6 1/2" / 16.4-ish cm long and printed in an acrylic as Frosted Ultra Detail. 

So, there are amazing things that can be done, and it's getting better, and faster, all the time. However, I don't see it replacing styrene kits any time soon....


----------



## Disco58

miniature sun said:


> That globe will have to be moulded in two halves as I don't know of any injection or vacform process that will give a single-piece globe with a hole in that is smaller than the outside diameter. Also the base and figures within the globe are wider than the aperture meaning the globe has to be assembled around the figures.
> I wonder whether anyone can come up with a solution maybe in cast resin or even glass?


Spincast clear resin will work, or pick up an old snowglobe at a thrift shop, empty it and you're good.


----------



## Zombie_61

Regardless of whether they're injection molded, 3D printed, or replicated Star Trek style, model kits will continue to exist as long as there's a viable market for them (i.e., as long as there's enough demand for the companies producing them to turn a profit); it's a matter of supply and demand more than technology and production methodology. There might come a day when model kits are a thing of the past, but I'm not going to start wringing my hands just yet. Besides, I already have more kits than I'll be able to build before I die.


----------



## mcdougall

this ought to help get our minds off this dreaded horrific topic...













 :wave:


----------



## ChrisW

Mark, 3D printers can already print in different colors, as well as different materials. Here at the proving ground we have 3D printers that print metal, and a printer that will do both a hard plastic and soft vinyl in the same pass.. The colors aren't as fine as you get with painting, of course, but multi[ple colors have been available for a while now.
And the idea is not going to the manufacturer for 3D printed product, but buying or creating the stereo lithography file and either going to a service bureau or outputting on your own, or your club's, 3D printer...completely circumventing the traditional manufacturing process.


----------



## Frankie Boy

ChrisW said:


> 3D printers can already ...


But is there any reason why a 3D printer could not print in a traditional looking "parts on a sprue" kind of way? 
The parts wouldn't have to actually be on a sprue, of course, but at least printed in individual pieces (complete with locator tabs, I suppose) to be assembled and glued together, then painted, in the traditional plastic model-building way?


----------



## Mark McGovern

ChrisW said:


> ...completely circumventing the traditional manufacturing process.


Thanks, CeeDub - _that's_ reassuring...



Frankie Boy said:


> But is there any reason why a 3D printer could not print in...the traditional plastic model-building way?


Not that I can see, Frankie - which is also reassuring...:tongue:


----------



## Griffworks

Frankie Boy said:


> But is there any reason why a 3D printer could not print in a traditional looking "parts on a sprue" kind of way?
> The parts wouldn't have to actually be on a sprue, of course, but at least printed in individual pieces (complete with locator tabs, I suppose) to be assembled and glued together, then painted, in the traditional plastic model-building way?


None whatsoever. It's all in how the parts are laid out in the mesh.


----------



## John P

But at least for now, 3D-printing a kit is more expensive and time-consuming, no?


----------



## ChrisW

John P said:


> But at least for now, 3D-printing a kit is more expensive and time-consuming, no?


3D printing certainly isn't for mass production...but the ability to download the file and print the pieces on your own machine is certainly appealing. It is following the same business model of downloading music as opposed to buying the cd.


----------



## apls

They must have cancelled Thor as well.


----------



## Mark McGovern

I just read James Hood's comment on the cancellation over on the Round 2 _Collector Model_ blog; you can read it here: http://www.collectormodel.com/round2-models/2056-sneak-peak-of-the-wicked-witch-sculpt/#comment-7516. What I'm getting from James' posting is, Round 2 was faced with some major obstacle that forced them to abandon the kit. We may never know what the obstacle was but I'm sure it something big.


----------



## Zorro

Mark McGovern said:


> I just read James Hood's comment on the cancellation over on the Round 2. What I'm getting from James' posting is, Round 2 was faced with some major obstacle that forced them to abandon the kit. We may never know what the obstacle was but I'm sure it something big.


"Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!"


----------



## Jimmy B

They Liquidated her!


----------



## Griffworks

"What a world! What a world!"


----------



## SJF

"I'm melting....agggh...!"

Sean


----------



## SUNGOD

Looks like Thor's been cancelled as well as there's been no talk of it recently.


----------



## John P

Well I'm mighty thor about that!


----------



## ChrisW

John P said:


> Well I'm mighty thor about that!


...witch I suppose is the proper response!


----------



## Jimmy B

Well I'm looking at the bright side. If they keep cancelling kits, it will slow down my rate of buying kits. Hopefully with this slowdown my rate of building kits will exceed my rate of buying kits and thus I'll actually build at least half of my current stash before I finally keel over.


----------



## Mark McGovern

Jimmy B said:


> ... I finally keel over.


I didn't know you built ships, Jimmy. :tongue:


----------



## derric1968

apls said:


> They must have cancelled Thor as well.





SUNGOD said:


> Looks like Thor's been cancelled as well as there's been no talk of it recently.


Jeez Louise, guys! Just because Round 2 hasn't mentioned the kit lately doesn't mean it's been cancelled! In case you haven't noticed, those guys aren't exactly chatterboxes when it comes to updates. They haven't mentioned the Kane kit or the Alien Queen kit recently either. Should I start proclaiming that the sky is falling?

Unless you have seen an official announcement (and can provide a link directly to it), how about we remain calm and patient, ok? Besides, Wonderfest is just around the corner. I'm sure someone will post a report with updates about everything Round 2 is working on.


----------



## Trek Ace

Something (very) similar to the Polar Lights kit, for diehard fans:

http://www.wbshop.com/product/the+w...wizwgsg02.do?sortby=ourPicks&refType=&from=fn




















Perhaps the kit was too close to the figurine, that they decided to call it off.


----------



## djnick66

Actually in some ways its better sculpted! The head on the witch in the PL version is grossly overscale.


----------



## Zathros

*I know its been said earlier, but with ALL Tom Lowe put out, making him the grandfather of Aurora repops, it doesnt bother me in the least that this was cancelled. if he never puts out another aurora repop,or anything else...he has my eternal thanks!..For all the kits I never thought I would own again!:thumbsup:

Z*


----------



## Frankie Boy

Zathros said:


> *I know its been said earlier, but with ALL Tom Lowe put out, making him the grandfather of Aurora repops, it doesnt bother me in the least that this was cancelled. if he never puts out another aurora repop,or anything else...he has my eternal thanks!..For all the kits I never thought I would own again!:thumbsup:
> 
> Z*



Ditto!


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## xsavoie

One last Aurora repop if possible would be great though,The Apache on Horse.:thumbsup:


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## robiwon

Please though, just one last Aurora re-pop, the Sea Lab!


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## Cajjunwolfman

robiwon said:


> Please though, just one last Aurora re-pop, the Sea Lab!


Begin a Kickstarter!


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## ChrisW

Cajjunwolfman said:


> Begin a Kickstarter!


If nothing else, it will gauge interest.


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## John P

^That's what Atlantis did with the Gladiators.


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## Bwain no more

And the Gladiator KS project DID assess the interest level. 
Tom


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## xsavoie

Kickstarter have very little chance of being effective.It only makes modelers hesitate.A poll for wanted items is the best way to go.Then the manufacturer decides to either release it or not.


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## Frankie Boy

xsavoie said:


> Kickstarter have very little chance of being effective.It only makes modelers hesitate.A poll for wanted items is the best way to go.Then the manufacturer decides to either release it or not.


That doesn't appear to make any sense. Why, on one hand, would a Kickstarter project "only make modellers hesitate", where, on the other hand, simply taking a poll would make their intention to buy all that more certain?


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## Bwain no more

Kickstarter pretty much asks "put up or shut up". My own online experiences indicate that the internet is BRIMMING with people inclined to do neither. :freak:
Tom


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## Rondo

I was looking forward to this kit more than most figure kits. I was not surprised so much to hear it cancelled (deals fall apart all the time for various reasons) but to read back now and see that lack of interest is the reason given... That is a shock. I expected licensing was the issue. Man, this subject is a true classic and a real epic of the old school studios. Even though WofOz was not a horror movie, it was scarier to me than most of the classic "monster movies" of the years since. Still is for that matter. I have bought recent releases that I'm truthfully much less interested in than this one.

Pre-orders likely WILL be weak. The economy is weak. Hobby shops are struggling and this kit probably was not going to be cheap. I'd rather hear that it's been put on hold pending economic recovery as opposed to dead.


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## Frankie Boy

Rondo said:


> I'd rather hear that it's been put on hold pending economic recovery as opposed to dead.


Hmmm? Practically speaking, what's the difference?


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## Rondo

On hold being temporary, assuming we do eventually have a recovery. Just waiting for the right time. To be restarted later.

Dead is ostensibly for keeps, as in deemed a nonviable product for the foreseeable future. Cancelled.

Obviously I don't know the exact status of this kit but it sounds more like the latter.


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## djnick66

Bwain no more said:


> And the Gladiator KS project DID assess the interest level.
> Tom


Im not sure how accurate that is either. I would buy the actual kits but view KS as a scam. That's just my personal opinion. Everyone and their brother is grovelling for money with KS schemes.


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## Frankie Boy

djnick66 said:


> Im not sure how accurate that is either. I would buy the actual kits but view KS as a scam. That's just my personal opinion. Everyone and their brother is grovelling for money with KS schemes.


Say what?! Do you feel Kickstarter is a scam in general, or the Kickstarter specifically for the gladiators was a scam? Actually, either way, how do you figure it's a scam?


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## ChrisW

Also keep in mind that Round 2/Polar Lights is a manufacturer, not a retailer. They are gauging the interest of wholesalers/distributors/retailers, not necessarily the end purchaser. Over the years Polar Lights (both in it's previous and current reincarnation) tried to sell ideas that didn't garner much interest from the buyers.


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## Night-Owl

The Drej Alien springs to mind.


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## John P

The Scorpion :/.


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## djnick66

Frankie Boy said:


> Say what?! Do you feel Kickstarter is a scam in general, or the Kickstarter specifically for the gladiators was a scam? Actually, either way, how do you figure it's a scam?


Kickstart in general. Not that the Gladiators specifically was a scam. I have zero interest in backing a company or a project. I will, however, buy a finished project. I see everyone and their grandmother grovelling for start up cash on KS now. I really don't care to be a part of that. If you have the money, make something. If not, fine. How many Tamiya projects have you seen on KS? None. Revell? None.


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## Frankie Boy

djnick66 said:


> Kickstart in general. Not that the Gladiators specifically was a scam. I have zero interest in backing a company or a project. I will, however, buy a finished project. I see everyone and their grandmother grovelling for start up cash on KS now. I really don't care to be a part of that. If you have the money, make something. If not, fine. How many Tamiya projects have you seen on KS? None. Revell? None.



I understand what you're saying; I just don't understand the logic. You're in essence "backing" a company when you purchase their product. The Kickstarter avenue — as far as models are concerned — is designed (to my way of thinking) for niche market subjects (ie: The Gladiators) because of the much greater risk in seeing some kind of return on the investment. 

And as far as Tamiya and Revell are concerned, they can afford to take a risk smaller companies are not in a similar position.


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## djnick66

I guess I am old school... companies decide what to make, make it, put it out, I buy it. period.

I don't like the current bait and switch stuff that goes on now. They announce something, make you wait, then say well we won't make X but will may Y if you pay up front for us to develop it, etc. Blah. Make it and I will buy it if I am interested. If you can't afford it, don't . Or get into another business. 

Im not convinced that in house research guarantees a good selling kit either. Many companies, even the big ones, put out some real duds. 

I am not cheap... I spend a lot per month on my hobbies. But, I also like to get something up front. I'd rather walk into a store and pay more and walk home with an item than mail order it and wait 2 weeks. I look at Kick Start the same way... Who knows when and if a company makes something even if I pledge money or not. Then how or when do you get your money back, etc.


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## Frankie Boy

You haven't "lost" any money to worry about "getting back". Your money and you are only parted _IF_ the model is a go. If the model isn't a go, then you haven't lost a dime, and neither has the company.


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## rja

People have lost money on funding Kickstarters. Then there's this case: I invested in one middle of last year that was supposed to deliver in October'ish. Now it's looking like we'll be lucky to get the items by THIS October.


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## John P

Ara Press did a kickstarter to fund a book on the Russian N-1 moon rocket, something that's had precious little exposure. I was interested. For a $50 pledge (charged ONLY if the project goes thru) I was promised a hardcover book signed by the authors. The KS campaign raised enough money to print the book, and I got mine thereafter. Without the KS, the book never would have been printed. I'm happy. 

Atlantis did a KS for the Gladiator models instead of just gambling money to develop it and hope it sold. If you pledged to the KS and they hit their goal, the kits would be made and you'd get one. Not enough people pledged to warrant the kit being made. They realized this was also a gauge of (lack of) interest. No kit was made, Atlantis didn't lose any money, and my credit card was not charged.

I don't see a problem.


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## TAY666

Bwain no more said:


> Kickstarter pretty much asks "put up or shut up". My own online experiences indicate that the internet is BRIMMING with people inclined to do neither. :freak:
> Tom


Yep.
Ask any GK producer.
Lots of people say they want to see such-and-such kit reissued.
But when it is remolded all you hear are crickets and very few sales.


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## Rondo

Ideally, the producer is in touch with his market and knows what it wants or can be made to want. You do whatever market research is deemed appropriate and either produce or do not. Pre-orders and KSs COULD be considered part of that market research but that doesn't really work well. To offer something for sale by any means and then retract it is a failure. The more it happens, the less seriously future offerings will be taken. I suppose you come to a KS with the understanding that it may not happen so that is a little different.

Still, I'd say most folks are averse to giving out their card on an open ended possibility of production. A reputable dealer offering a 2-4 week pre-order on something which is in the supply pipeline is one thing. An item of which we can't see a finalized prototype is another. Such an offering will probably only net the most rabid fringe.

That said, I never considered pre-ordering this piece because I saw no reason. The subject is a slam dunk and the producer is reliable. Any legal issues aside, it was sure to arrive at the LHS where I do the bulk of my business, and where pre-ordering is not an option. 

I could just call this a poor business decision by PL but there is surely more to the story. Production issues? The clear dome would be difficult and many would likely be unhappy with the result. Rising cost and price point? The monkey had already been seperated as a kit in itself. The original proposal was quite ambitious. Three (or more!) important pieces plus scenery. Seperating them seems a good way to get the cost back down but is a compromise. Could have done two versions, Deluxe and Tourist.

Hopefully this kit will pull through somehow. The MPC Bigfoot was said to be cancelled but then reappeared. A less demanding kit for sure but it shows that there is always hope.


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## Rondo

Was Googling for images of the PL Wicked Witch and realized that I had finished (or killed) this thread two years ago. I was searching for painting tips because I received my kit in the mail today, along with XO Kane and the Moebius Catwoman. Along with the Dungeon and Animal Pit appearing, it has been quite a good couple of weeks.

Kudos to all of the manufacturers who fight the sometimes uphill battle to see these great kits through.


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