# Ho Track Question



## 4.3 ZOOK (Dec 22, 2008)

Hello everyone,hope the holidays are treatin' you right...
ho track question....
i have aurora/tomy track, i'm in the process of building a 52ft 2 lane hillclimb course, at the upper and lower ends i would like to loop back onto the same track.Is there any way to make this work with this track? i believe it is directional. or would it be like turning on a drill and then throwing the reverse
switch?
thanks
zook


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## H.O. racer (Jan 21, 2008)

Happy Holidays to you too. So Far, So good. Are you using 2-lane track?


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## 4.3 ZOOK (Dec 22, 2008)

yes...and i think i know what your answer is...


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## H.O. racer (Jan 21, 2008)

Are you wanting to build a 2-lane course or a 1-lane course?


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## 4.3 ZOOK (Dec 22, 2008)

a two lane


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## H.O. racer (Jan 21, 2008)

So, your wanting to build a 52' 2-lane course. How much extra track do you have on hand?


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## 4.3 ZOOK (Dec 22, 2008)

yeah ,here is the layout,it will rise 4 1/2' in elevation and i wanted to 
connect each lane with a loop two at top ,two at the bottom...







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wondering why this works?







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## resinmonger (Mar 5, 2008)

*Curious I am*

Am I correct in thinking that you want each lane to feature a return loop at each end so that you can basically run up and down the course?


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## slotcarman12078 (Oct 3, 2008)

I'm sooo confused!!! Let me see if I'm getting this straight... Are you trying to build a two lane course, but only run one car up on one lane and back down on the other lane???? OR.. are you tryin to race two cars up and back down on their same lanes???? The video you show is a digital car. It will run in a foward direction regardless of track polarity. Sadly, the technology doesn't exist in HO scale yet, but it would be cool if it did..


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## Crimnick (May 28, 2006)

You can do it if you convert to tyco at the ends and run a single lane in a loop at each end...

Up the hill on one lane...down on the other...put some crossovers in and you can make one lane be the inside all the way up the hill...

Been toying with just such a design...

One controller runs the whole thing...:thumbsup:


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## 4.3 ZOOK (Dec 22, 2008)

sorry guys i'm new to this,yeah i wanted to run the two lane track as two separate
tracks,each car up and down on the same track...
i realize now that i will have to loop the track at both ends (one lane up and the other down)to have two cars there would have to be 4 lanes....
i'll start a build thread when i'm further along..


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

If you want to run the same car in two different directions at different times on the the same lane you would need some sort of switching circuitry to reverse the polarity of the applied voltage when the car makes the turn around at the top of the course. Having a single car using one lane for the ascent and the other lane for the descent would be relatively straightforward.


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## slotcarman12078 (Oct 3, 2008)

If you use the two lane for one car up on one lane, down on the other it will work. There is one thing you will need to figure out, and that is wiring the track. A direct two wire will solve the issue. The factory power terminal may cause an issue as they are designed to feed power to both lanes, and you want the lanes to be wired opposite of each other... Also, if you can get a hold of some track clips, you can slice the curves in half on a bandsaw and make your own single lanes for your turn around. some experimentation will be necessary to figure out the correct curve geometry to double back on the same track lane 2.. Looks like a fun build though!!! Good luck and please post pics as you progress!!

UtherJoe


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## Crimnick (May 28, 2006)

You wont need to hack up track if you can find a couple tyco adaptors and then the double to single pieces..you an then just run a loop with the 9" single lane track back onto the splitter....

You can snip a terminal track to isolate the possible short on the other lane...

Chance are Grandcheapskate might have the exect pieces you need to do it...

But that again is a single lane up,and a single lane down...using the same double lane track..


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## 4.3 ZOOK (Dec 22, 2008)

thanks for the info guys,i'm learnin'
AFXTOO, I also thought of the idea of a switch, the car would trip a micro switch
which in turn would trip a relay and switch polarity.But the problem i see is 
how quickly the switching would work.There would have to be a short gap in the 
track that the car would have to free wheel(or slide on runners to lift the rear wheels) and in that short time the polarity would have to change.So i guess my options are:1.experiment with that idea 2. be bummed out and race one car only
3. complete the loop some how for two cars to work.
ok i'll continue to think too hard now..lol
p.s. Resinmonger,i went to south high!


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## Crimnick (May 28, 2006)

Racing a hill climb is as easy as getting one of those mini RC car timers and run against the clock...the 1/32 guys only run one car at a time in rally stages and hill climbs anyways...

Definately a great concept....

I think they way to do it would be to islolate a track section and have it be on it's own constant power.....

The car would move accross this piece while the relay flips and changes polarity on the hill climb...

And I still think you could do a double lane with track pieces...

Use the tyco US trucking turn outs and tyco single lane converters...run the loop from the turnout back onto itself on the straight and head back down the hill.....


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## H.O. racer (Jan 21, 2008)

Another solution would be doubling up the track (ie 2x2/4-lane) using AFX track with a 3" Hair Pin curve on each end. This would eleminate any electrical modifications.


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

Yeah, I was thinking about the micro switch with relay idea too. You could potentially use an isolated dead strip in lieu of a micro switch to trigger the polarity reversal. You could potentially fabricate a turnaround piece of track using an old AFX Y-track and some single lane sections, with a merge section built using the same technique that folks have used to do working pit lanes and Le Mans starting tracks.


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## H.O. racer (Jan 21, 2008)

How's it comming? Have you figured out how to impliment a return loop or are you still working on it?


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## 4.3 ZOOK (Dec 22, 2008)

yeah i think i've got it,just waiting on parts...
a friend of mine is a retired low voltage tech(alarm systems,thermostat controllers,etc.) and also worked on vending machines,he drew up a schematic and a list of parts.
when i get it all going i'll post a new thread,(hopefully within a week)it will probably take some tweekin'


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## roffutt (Jun 30, 2006)

You might want to look at the circuitry in a TYCO "U-Turn" chassis. The cars are a bit of a novelty.. (My kids love them) But they are design to spin and go either direction on the track no matter the polarity of the rails. Might help.

-Robbie


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## Slott V (Feb 3, 2005)

AfxToo said:


> Yeah, I was thinking about the micro switch with relay idea too. You could potentially use an isolated dead strip in lieu of a micro switch to trigger the polarity reversal. You could potentially fabricate a turnaround piece of track using an old AFX Y-track and some single lane sections, with a merge section built using the same technique that folks have used to do working pit lanes and Le Mans starting tracks.


Bingo I think AFXToo is onto a workable idea here.

This is something common in model railroading. Lionel trains use 3 rails and it isn't a big deal to loop back to the same track in a different direction as the center rail is always the positive and the outside rails are the grounds. HO trains are more like HO slot cars in that you have one rail positive and one negative. I believe HO trains have plastic rail connectors that isolate a section of track and that section has a switchable power feed. That way you can control engines in a yard and park them on a track section while other engines still operate around the layout. A turntable is where they turn an engine around and then it comes back down the same track section the opposite way. More sophisticated control systems have sensors and will automatically reverse the track power when the engine comes back the other way. Otherwise it is up to the operator to switch the track power as the engine approaches the same track section from the other way. ...confused yet? :freak:

In other words, for a single lane HO slot car track set up this way you would either have to manually reverse the track power when the car approaches the same slot the opposite way, or set up a double relay system that flipped power when a micro switch or reed switch under the track detected the car coming from the opposite way. The relay would have to be tied into the end of the track to always flip the power correctly based on the input of the sensors. The loop section would have to be isolated where the loop meets back so that that opposing rails don't short when the loop connects back to the same track section.

There is even another way to do this by modifying your cars themselves. You would have to incorporate some diodes and a small relay set to flip the power input in the car itself as it detects a reverse power input but this would require some pretty fancy electronic skills. It can be done. That way you would never have to mess with the track. You would still have to isolate that reversing loop section. 

-Scott


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## Slott V (Feb 3, 2005)

roffutt said:


> You might want to look at the circuitry in a TYCO "U-Turn" chassis. The cars are a bit of a novelty.. (My kids love them) But they are design to spin and go either direction on the track no matter the polarity of the rails. Might help.
> 
> -Robbie


Hmm good thinking but I think these cars also operate on a 3 rail system.


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## roffutt (Jun 30, 2006)

Slott V said:


> Hmm good thinking but I think these cars also operate on a 3 rail system.


I'm confused.. which cars operate on a three rail system? U-turn cars work on any 2-lane slotted track, consistent with Tyco and AFX rail spacing. I don't know about Matchbox, or other systems where the rails spacing is narrower. 

-Robbie


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## 4.3 ZOOK (Dec 22, 2008)

thanks for all the answers guys,i'm hoping to receive something in the mail today so
i can start tinkering and post up what worked and where to get the parts in case
anyone is interested ...
i looked for some info on the u-turn cars but all i have found is were where to buy them.
i think the three rail cars are the slot less type?


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## Slott V (Feb 3, 2005)

roffutt said:


> I'm confused.. which cars operate on a three rail system? U-turn cars work on any 2-lane slotted track, consistent with Tyco and AFX rail spacing. I don't know about Matchbox, or other systems where the rails spacing is narrower.
> 
> -Robbie


Gotcha I was just guessing.


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## Slott V (Feb 3, 2005)

4.3 ZOOK said:


> thanks for all the answers guys,i'm hoping to receive something in the mail today so
> i can start tinkering and post up what worked and where to get the parts in case
> anyone is interested ...
> i looked for some info on the u-turn cars but all i have found is were where to buy them.
> i think the three rail cars are the slot less type?


Ya I was thinking of these weird Lionel slotless cars I have somewhere.


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## Slott V (Feb 3, 2005)

*Here is an automated polarity flip concept for your track idea*

OK, I find this whole power flip idea intriguing and thought out some of the components and wiring schematic and put it down in a rough CAD drawing while screwing around at work this afternoon. Below is the drawing in a couple of different formats like PDF and JPG. The PDF is the clearest.

This drawing does not include the controller interface but merely shows how you could do an automatic type power flip by sensing the cars position on the track. There is more to the momentary relay set up so that the momentary action of a reed switch keeps the primary relay energized but without my electronics book in front of me I can't remember the details of that circuit. Perhaps your retired electronics buddy is familiar with momentary switches and locked relays, but if not it isn't hard to find on the web.

Basically you want the primary relay to remain locked so that it energizes the Main Power Relay until the car gets to the other loop. Then when the car rounds the second loop and trips the reed sensor at the other end of the track, the primary relay shuts off and the Main Power Relay goes to a normally closed switch, or "NC" and reverses the polarity of the track. You have to wire the 2 outputs of the Main Relay so that one leg generates one power polarity ouput and the other flips the polarity. This system should work and is fairly easy to build if someone understands basic electronics and relays.

See what you think:

-Scott


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## slotcarman12078 (Oct 3, 2008)

After reading the latest posts, I'm thinking a full wave bridge rectifier will do the trick.. it converts A/C to D/C so regardless which way the car is facing, it will go fowards as long as it's hooked up right. I don't know which one you'll need, but I'm pretty sure this is the simple answer. They make them pretty small nowadays... Now the question is, how are you going to turn the car around??


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## 4.3 ZOOK (Dec 22, 2008)

knew this would get a few people thinking
slotv that's similar to the diagram my buddy drew up(wish i had a scanner)
but he wants to use a three pole relay(one per track)powered by a 24 volt
transformer(separate from track power)triggered by coin switches(rotary)
which i received in the mail today.The switches have quite a bit of throw so they will have to be fiddled with.
slotcarman here's a bad photo of the turnaround(i know it looks like butt checks)form follows function right? i will have to put up guard rails to keep 
the speed up so the cars can slide over the dead spot.
i have to look into that neutron wave generator thing.
oh i should have mentioned this is a piece of 1/4" masonite







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## 4.3 ZOOK (Dec 22, 2008)

*Puzzle Solved*

Well with the help of my buddy Cliff we got the loop track to work...
first here is a test vid...


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## H.O. racer (Jan 21, 2008)

Pretty slick. Keep us posted on the progress.


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

Excellent job.


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## slotnewbie69 (Dec 3, 2008)

nicely done,i have peeped in and out of your thread on this,and it's really cool to see the innovation and thought you have put into it!keep up the good work,i am afraid i was a doubting thomas for a bit there...WTG!


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## 4.3 ZOOK (Dec 22, 2008)

thanks everyone...
i was real close to throwing the whole works in the wood burning stove..lol
i had routed the outside groove for the power strip to far out(car would stop)
my last ditch effort was to add copper tape,it worked and thus was saved from 
the flames.....
all of this stuff Cliff had laying around,so we had to use 4 two pole relays
instead of 2 three pole...and wanted to use 24v for the system but 
ended up running 110v.as you can see the car has no problem coasting
over the dead zone.
a couple of pics and Cliff's diagram..































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