# A New eBay Hassle



## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

So, have you run into this one yet?

I wanted to bid on a few items by the same seller. Tried bidding on the first one and got rejected because my Paypal account is not linked to my eBay account - apparently this is some new restriction a seller can place on the auction. And I ain't linking them together. I can only imagine the havoc they could cause if you authorized them to access your Paypal account based on your eBay ID and what happens on eBay. 

So I thought I'd ask the seller a question. Sorry no - the system tells me this seller won't answer questions and it tells you to "just read the item description".

Okay bud...you lost this sale along with the other 7-8 bids I would have entered.

Joe


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## v8pwrdz28 (Feb 27, 2013)

i have not seen this yet, i will be on the lookout tho, thanks.


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## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

having PayPal linked to eBay account is a formality and is just another step in certifying identity and trustworthiness.
it has become a necessity, much like having a bank account.
I know people who still don't trust banks or other financial institutions, they don't get out much. 
they are the same people who don't use credit cards and when out of town cannot rent a car and have a hard time booking a motel/hotel room.
once was a time some folks wouldn't accept paper money and only dealt in precious metal coins, they were easy to spot and rob .... but, I digress ... LOL !
fortunately I belong to a credit union that has multiple checking accounts available with no minimums or other requirements.
so I have one checking account strictly for online links and payments (like direct deposit from my employer). 
when I receive funds to that account, they get transferred pretty quickly.
when I need to pay for something linked through my PayPal, I transfer the money in.
so, I can use the PayPal "pay friends and family" without incurring fees for either.
I have never had a problem with anyone trying to attach my checking account through any of the services I have linked to it.
lucky, lucky me.


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## super8man (Jan 29, 2013)

alpink pretty much hit the nail on the head. Credit unions and a second bank account are the way to go. Sure, cash is best in person and the prices always seem better since typically you may be amongst fellow enthusiasts and not old guys with "rare treasure" who know nothing about the hobby. 

So yeah, suck it up if you can, link a credit card to a separate account and keep on supporting the hobby. I have lost more money since following that advice and unfortunately, not one was scam. Just me hitting the buy it now button and the ARE YOU SURE button. Hahaha


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

I've already done all those things you guys suggest and I always advise people to (a) open a seperate bank account used only by Paypal and (b) only leave in that account the bare minimum necessary to avoid bank fees.

But this is different. Seems I cannot bid or even ask a question if my eBay ID is not tied to Paypal. I have heard too many horror stories about Paypal to allow it to be tied unconditionally to my eBay ID. I wonder how many sales these sellers lose by using this new restriction. I was also wondering why all but one of this guy's auctions had no bids - now I have a good idea.

It is wise to remember - judge a company not by what they do when things go right, but how they treat you when things go wrong.

Joe


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## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

*logic?*

Joe, please pardon me, but I don't follow your logic.
it seems that you are afraid that, as a buyer on eBay, they will be able to take money away from you if your eBay ID is directly linked to your PayPal account?
is that your concern?

I, for one, take advantage of the allowance of two PayPal accounts.

I use one for sales, a premier PayPal account, and the money from said sales never stays in PayPal long, nor does it stay in the linked checking account long. I can tie multiple eBay accounts( ID's) to that one PayPal Premier account.

I use a different PayPal account simply for buying and that is linked to a strictly buying ID (account) on eBay. and money to pay for items I buy is only transferred into the linked checking account when I am ready to pay a seller whether it be on eBay, Hobby Talk or any other venue.

so, I keep no money in either of my PayPal accounts or in the linked checking accounts.

what is there to steal?

usually the horror stories aren't told with absolute truth and the part where the one who lost money didn't follow all the requirements by PayPal and/or eBay to protect themselves.

an analogy if you will
you have a party in your home and you leave the party while there is $1000.00 cash on the dining room table.
you return to find no one at the party and no cash on the dining room table.
you didn't act to properly protect yourself and were taken advantage of.

you wouldn't do that on a bad day.
you know better.

yet when PayPal says to get signature delivery and insurance on all items that sold for more than $250.00 you cheap out to save a few dollars and only use the Delivery Confirmation that is now included in most forms of USPS shipping and ignore any insurance at all.
the savvy buyer (thief), recognizing that all contingencies have not been met files a claim with PayPal and the sellers PayPal account is frozen in the amount of assets that the item is sold for.
seller cannot prove SIGNATURE delivery even though Delivery Confirmation was scanned and shows when it was indeed delivered. but that is not what PayPal requires and they find in favor of the thief (buyer) and seller goes around telling how s/he was robbed.

but they never tell the part about how $2.75 would have saved them $1000.00.

in conclusion, linking an eBay account to a PayPal account is merely a further condition for verifying your actual existence and allowing quicker transactions through those venues. there is little to no risk for buyers to accomplish this simple feat and it opens up numerous doors for opportunity to purchase items that become, otherwise, out of reach.
and blame eBay/PayPal, not the seller. sellers are protecting themselves from savvy buyers as per eBay/PayPal requirements which get stricter all the time.

so, please, again pardon, will you explain the logic of NOT linking a PayPal account to a buying eBay account?

and if YOU are not savvy enough to have two eBay accounts, one for buying and one for selling, that is an issue for another occasion.
the need is as obvious as seller not wanting folks to see what was paid when item was bought.

too long of a winded speech you say?
maybe! 
LOL :freak:


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## ruralradio (Mar 11, 2011)

Good words from Al. Another thing you can do is obtain a low-limit credit card from your bank and link it to your pay-pal, with a credit card the seller is still guaranteed their money, and if you pay it off right away, you generally don't have to deal with interest. With a low-limit card (mine's 1k, you can get lower), if you get scammed, it's over when the card hits it's limit, and scams on credit cards are much easier to contest than a debit card that's actually connected to your real money. The real reason for getting the low-limit card was my debit card getting scammed at a hotel during a work trip, over 3k in charges to Russian porn and software sites, Pro-Active skin products (what the hell does a 58 yr old guy need that crap for?), and several hundred dollars of overdraft charges. Here's the kicker: I bank with U.S. Bank, and swear by their internet banking services, sometimes I check my accounts several times a day (paranoid!), I caught this AS IT WAS HAPPENING, got it stopped right then and there with the help of my local bank's staff and the US Bank helpline. Sign for your bank's internet services if you are not already, it can save your a$$.... the banking rep told me if I would have waited for the paper statement on my accounts to arrive in the mail, I would of been screwed. Because of fast action, I lost no money, and all overdrafts were rescinded. I had all reciepts from the trip, too, knew what charges were good, which were not.

I like Al's idea of seperate buy/sell accounts, too, I'll do that if I ever start selling on the 'bay.


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

*The Borg*

....uh huh, all well and good while your skipping down the lane through candy land and buying with wreckless abandon. Cha-ching cha-ching cha-ching it's such a happy lil sound.

Now ask me what happens when you want to undo your credit card and bank information ... kerplunk!

Once assimilated, forever part of the collective. Once done they cannot undo it.


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

Hi Al,

You outline a lot of sensible options which you can use and I have no argument with any of them.

My objections may be more subjective than objective. Like many others, I can remember the early days of Paypal and eBay. Paypal and eBay were two seperate companies and things were far simplier. And yes, I know - everything about our life is far more complicated and rules restricted today (just try doing anything to your own home or property). 

Remember when all cash transfers were free on Paypal if you had a personal account? I don't think personal and premium accounts exist any more on Paypal - I believe they got rolled into one type of account using premium rules and fees. I know the rules changed on my personal account when I noticed fees being charged on a straight cash transaction and I could accept credit card payments. 

Remember when you could accept any type of payment you pleased on eBay?

All that changed when eBay bought Paypal. The restrictions just kept coming. Long ago I stopped selling on eBay because I didn't like the fee increases or the rules. My choice. But I continued to buy because all the rule changes and fee increases didn't affect the BUY side of the transaction.

So in terms of needing multiple eBay IDs, unless I decide to sell again I won't need to do that. In terms of a checking account, my bank requires me to keep a minimum balance to get free checking so I cannot keep a balance of zero. I keep it as low as I can, but it ain't zero. Since I only buy from eBay (and sell directly to HT members and others) I don't need more than one Paypal or one dedicated bank account.

It seems to me that if you link your eBay ID to a Paypal account, you are giving eBay the power to go to your Paypal account and make withdrawls without your intervention or permission. And then if you want to challenge a charge, you are appealing to the same company that made the withdrawl. A really BAD idea. 

eBay already has my credit card on file - why do they need more access to my accounts?

I just went through a similar process with the private community where my house is located. They fined me without cause and my only appeal venue was through the same people who issued the fine. Wanna guess how that turned out? Having the same company on both sides of the transaction is a receipe for disaster. At least challenging the charge to your credit card company has a chance of succeeding.

Maybe I am being overly sensitive, paranoid or cautious. But the disclosure of my private financial information is something I guard as closely as possible.

Joe


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## super8man (Jan 29, 2013)

It is not very difficult: 

A - let the credit card expiry laps and not tell paypal the new expiry date;

B - cancel the card and open a new credit card...happens all the time what with Amazon points card, Target cards, etc, etc...

As for being "forever" linked...please...by virtue of having a credit card you are "in the system" of whatever conspiracy you want to imagine. 

Lastly, it is a very serious charge to have ebay or paypal remove funds from a bank acount without cause. We are talking felonies here. Is there a reason you can't walk into a different place, a credit union, and open an account? 

This whole thing is starting to sound like we are all trying t0o hard to give out some useful guidelines. 

If you don't want to buy on ebay according to their rules (free country, etc etc), then just stop looking at ebay and seeing things you want.

But, if you DO want to buy on ebay, then there are two pages of advice on how to go about doing so with safe purchasing process.

The choice is yours.


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

As for being "forever" linked...please...by virtue of having a credit card you are "in the system" of whatever conspiracy you want to imagine. 

Really, conspiracy?! Heres another big word.

Fleabays Payscam is one measly sentence from being a monopoly: "other forms of payment accepted". So roughly just above ponzi schemes and loansharking on the fiduciary ladder of shyte. 

Forgive my buccaneerish doubloon biting mentality; but old money dictates that you keep your chips on your side of the table and never reveal the location of your treasure chest.


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## LDThomas (Nov 30, 1999)

I get the impression that very few people are factoring in their credit rating when opening and closing so many credit cards and bank accounts. Makes one go, "Hmmm..."


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## sethndaddy (Dec 4, 2004)

Bill Hall said:


> As for being "forever" linked...please...by virtue of having a credit card you are "in the system" of whatever conspiracy you want to imagine.
> 
> Really, conspiracy?! Heres another big word.
> 
> ...


ARRRGGGGG, I knew you had a treasure chest filled with tons of cash, Now I'm going to cry to ebay and have them steal from your paypal account because you used my trademarked name "fleabay". lol


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## sethndaddy (Dec 4, 2004)

On the serious side. The whole ebay/paypal charges and rules are good and bad.

In the old days........ever have a personal check from an ebay sale bounce? I DID. Ever get one of those "stolen" post office money orders? I didn't, but heard a ton of people did. Paypal cleared alot of that crap up.

Heres the downside to the ebay/paypal marriage, you sell an item, buyer claims its the wrong thing and wants his money back, you MUST give it back. And the old, "item be sold as is, no returns", does NOT hold any grounds, ebay will pull the money out of your account as long as the buyer shows a return shipping confirmation number, and the buyer can ship you anything back....happened to my brother on a $220.00 item. He sold a pool cleaner and received a destroyed similar pool cleaner as a return.

All in all though, I have not had any problems with the system since it started. A few retard buyers, but no problems on the fleabay end.


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## super8man (Jan 29, 2013)

THat's what I keep trying to say, ebay is GREAT for buyers. Sellers? I don't care. Seriously. Sure, I "like" the sellers that sell me things I want to buy but I really do not care one iota about what hoops they go through. Not my job to care. I am a price taker and play the game accordingly.

If ebay did not exist I am afraid a lot more of us would have stories on HT about how we were mugged or worse when showing up with a few hundred bucks to buy some toy cars posted on craigslist. 

I was around in the original days of ebay and LOTS AND LOTS of shenanigans were played by all parties. Shill bidding was the LEAST of your worries back then. OMG.

So yeah, I will take my chances with ebay as a buyer any day of the week. 

As a seller? Not really worried about it. If ebay is so bad, let someone else invent a better "sellers" marketplace. Still waiting for that one to happen. It might....but still waiting.


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

sethndaddy said:


> ARRRGGGGG, I knew you had a treasure chest filled with tons of cash, Now I'm going to cry to ebay and have them steal from your paypal account because you used my trademarked name "fleabay". lol


Yarrrrrrrgh! Stagger stagger crawl crawl.... come and get me you scurvy dawgs. My cutlass awaits!


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## slotcarman12078 (Oct 3, 2008)

Now that I'm attempting to sell on Ebay, it does matter to me. It's not so much fun when you're on the flip side of things. Hardly anyone leaves feedback, Ebay fees amount to about 10% of a sale, slow payers (auctions ended Friday night, some don't pay for 5-6 days later), etc. Is it worth the hassle?? Yes and no. 

The ability to reach a bigger audience is there, but too many either blow by my stuff without reading the whole listing, or don't understand what goes into a custom, especially one of my light ups, or they just don't care. My guess is these are the same types that think a JL Flamethrower is cool because the whole nose of the car is glowing like it's nuclear powered. 

I'll never understand how some people can bid $170.00+ on a plain old candy red MM 67 Chevelle with RRR decals on it, and then not want to bid on a one of a kind Dash 442 that it all lit up. Seriously, what is rarer? 

I have a hard time sleeping when I have a custom listed in S&S over night. Having one listed on the bay equals bouts of insomnia all week. The TM says I'm talking Ebay in my sleep. I'll keep at it and hope it gets better...


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

The point of my initial post was not to say either eBay or Paypal are bad. Nor is it to say that some very sensible safeguards have not been put in place over the years. It was mearly to point out that eBay has taken another step to link eBay and Paypal together as one entity. And as I pointed out earlier, when you must deal with the same company controlling both ends of the transaction, you are putting a lot of faith in their goodwill and intentions.

Do you want to bet what the next step will be? My guess is eBay will automatically charge your Paypal account when you win an auction. And it will do so by trying to take money from your bank account - failing that, it will go to your credit card (and you may be stuck with an overdraft fee). They won't do the credit card first because then they would incur a fee from the credit card company and that fee would have to come out of the fee they charge you - less profit for them. Why do you think every Paypal payment defaults to your bank account rather than the credit card? Plus, it may be much harder to dispute a charge to your bank account than it is to dispute a charge to your credit card.

A sensible safeguard would have been as follows: all eBay users must register a credit card and that credit card must remain valid (eBay could easily flag every credit card which has reached it's expiration date; cancelled cards would be a problem to detect). If a buyer does not pay the seller within a given number of days, the seller can request an immediate charge be placed on the buyer's credit card. Simple and direct, no need to involve Paypal and no linking of accounts. This is a rule you must agree to when you register with eBay.

At least with this rule, if something goes wrong, you can go to your credit card company.

But eBay can do as it pleases. It's up to each individual when you feel they have gone beyond your comfort zone.

Joe


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## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

Joe, sincerely.
I understand your frustration.
eBay is not for every one.
that has long been a standard. 
as joeLED points out, some folks bid without having funding available and then seller must wait.
but, harken back to days of Pre-PayPal. most buyers had to purchase USPS money orders and that could take days for them to accomplish. next is the snail mail USPS system for delivery of payment.
so PayPal has improved some of the formula.
but, I do understand reluctance to allow anyone to have a hand in your pocket.
perhaps I originally overlooked your actual complaint and read something else into it.
surely enough sides of the coin and opinions have been shared regarding the system and how it works.
that, in of itself, makes this thread very valuable and your original post worth reading again.


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## TexMexSu (Mar 24, 2012)

We have been buying and selling on ebay for 15 years as of tomorrow.
We have had thousands of transactions without any negatives.
(it was not always easy but we have managed)

For the past couple years it has been more buying than selling, mostly due to the fees and how ebay has put all of the power into the buyers hands.

If it is better now than then is subjective at best.

Buyer wise, yes.

Seller wise, me thinks not.

There really are no other choices though.


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

Al,
As I said earlier, Paypal has been a huge boon to online buying. I have no problems with the concept, but do have issues with the execution.

To all,
I have to agree that eBay seems to have put most of the power into the hands of the buyer (plus I have heard this complaint from other sellers). And there are many ways for a seller to get the raw end of any transaction. I doubt I will ever go back to selling on eBay knowing how badly a seller can get screwed.

Maybe this idea of linking an eBay and Paypal account together was an attempt by eBay to put some control back in the hands of the seller, which is not a bad thing. The seller would know all bids on his items are from buyers with (theoretically) valid Paypal accounts and therefore (theoretically) the ability to pay. I think if that was their motive, they went about it the wrong way. Because unless eBay is willing to make withdrawls from your Paypal account without your consent, the seller is still not going to get paid until the buyer authorizes it.

Otherwise what have they accomplished by linking them together? Now the seller knows the buyer has a Paypal account. Still doesn't do him any good if the buyer doesn't pay.

The method I described above, mandating a valid credit card be on file at eBay even for buying, would insure (as much as possible) the seller got paid if the winning bidder failed to pay. And it offers the protection of the credit card company against false charges for the buyer. Protection on both ends of the transaction.

Joe


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## TexMexSu (Mar 24, 2012)

Back in the 1990's there was another great auction site called "UP4SALE".
It was a little different because the buyer paid the fees.

Nice for the seller.

Of course ebay did not like that and in mid 1998 they purchased UP4SALE and it was gone.

Then there was Billpoint and Bidpay which failed horribly to PayPal so in 2002 PayPal became a wholly owned subsidiary of ebay.

ebay/PayPal have been sued and listed in countless lawsuits from people here and abroad for various reasons mostly of funds withheld without reason.

Here is one.....

"Complex Litigation Group LLC has been appointed interim lead class counsel in a putative class action against PayPal for PayPal holding seller's money up to 180 days (sometimes even longer). PayPal often does not provide a basis for why it is holding the funds and will also tell the seller to get a subpoena to find out why their money is frozen."

Some of the things they do are scary.

You can rest assured whatever ebay does it is solely for the good of ebay and NOT for the sellers or buyers regardless of what they tell you.
I am sure some of you are in closed door meetings when truths are told and stories are written.

Do I continue to use them? Yes, most certainly.
Do I trust them? Not a bit.

I am very careful of what info they have and how much money they have possible control of.


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

TexMexSu said:


> Some of the things they do are scary.
> 
> You can rest assured whatever ebay does it is solely for the good of ebay and NOT for the sellers or buyers regardless of what they tell you.
> 
> ...


 Bingo!


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

I haven't been buying anything on eBay lately with all the tasks I currently have on my plate, but I did try today to place a bid and again got rejected because of the eBay/Paypal link restriction - when that happens, you cannot even ask the seller a question unless you go to their personal page.

Anyway, what I would like to ask of those that use eBay often is how common is it for sellers to put this restriction on their items? Is it a majority of sellers? Is it the default that eBay puts on each item unless you disable it? If so, I guess there is no need for me to cruise eBay anymore since I can no longer bid.

And another quick question for sellers. Does eBay make you link the accounts together before you can sell?

Thanks...Joe


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## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

have to be linked to sell.


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

alpink said:


> have to be linked to sell.


I figured as much...thanks Al.

Just as an update. I sent a question to the seller (via their personal page) asking to be exempted from the Paypal link requirement so I could make an offer on their item. They did, so I sent an offer and they accepted. Now it's on its way. Had they left the link requirement in place, they might well have not sold this item (it was out there as a BIN for a long time). I just wonder how many sellers are losing sales (or losing higher bids) by putting this requirement in place.

I'd still like to know from sellers whether this link requirement is now the default when setting up an auction.

Thanks...Joe


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