# PL 1/350 Enterprise. Ideas and advice please...



## SawgrassRaven (Sep 16, 2009)

Fellas.

Great forum, first post!

I am in the planning stages of building the Polar Lights 1/350 refit Enterprise.

I have modeling experience, but here, you guys have the knowledge. Here are a few ideas I have, advice and opinions welcome.

I was thinking about no aztecing at all, just clean white. My reasoning is, a ship that big in real life wouldn't really show those details in a model of 1/350 scale. For example, I saw a real carrier at Norfolk several years ago. I was about 1/2 mile away. Standing there, it looked all gray, and if I held my hands up, left hand at the bow, right hand at the stern, my hands were about 3 feet apart. Near the dock, up close, I could see the hull was a miriad of grays, lines, rivets, etc. Opinions on this?

But, I like the look the aztecing gives. I was thinking of using the kit-supplied aztec decals, but wonder about future silvering.

Assuming a glossy surface, is this an issue?

Has anyone used Krylon's Crystal Clear Acrylic Coating? I understand it's non-yellowing.

Will clears over decals prevent silvering in the future? How well do the decals seal under clears?

I will use some LED lighting, but not to the level some of you here do. (Fantastic work, BTW).

My goal is to have a relaxing, enjoyable build of a beautiful ship, pleasing to my eye.

What say you all?

Thanks in advance!

:wave:


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## Magesblood (May 12, 2008)

silvering = decals applied to a non-glossy surface. As shiny and smooth as you can get 'er a perfect decal will make.

If I might suggest not using LEDs as they create "hotspots" (bright spots that are readily apparent they're LEDs within). Instead, try your hand at CCFLs. Steady, uniform light throughout.






Welcome to the board! :wave:


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## 1701ALover (Apr 29, 2004)

Magesblood said:


> Instead, try your hand at CCFLs.


Um...this may have been mentioned somewhere else and I missed it, or not...what are CCFLs?


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## timothyn1967 (Aug 5, 2008)

1701ALover said:


> Um...this may have been mentioned somewhere else and I missed it, or not...what are CCFLs?


Cold Cathode Flourecent Lights. Like neon light sort of but smaller. They are often used in computers and give an even glow as opposed to individual spots like LED's do. Here are a couple of shots of the 12" I am using for my 1/350 build:


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## Raist3001 (Oct 23, 2003)

These are LED's

http://s23.photobucket.com/albums/b391/Raist3001/?action=view&current=P1010233.jpg

http://s23.photobucket.com/albums/b391/Raist3001/?action=view&current=P1010232.jpg


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## bragstone (Apr 14, 2007)

you can get them here.

http://www.vibelights.com/


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## 1701ALover (Apr 29, 2004)

timothyn1967 said:


> Cold Cathode Flourecent Lights. Like neon light sort of but smaller. They are often used in computers and give an even glow as opposed to individual spots like LED's do. Here are a couple of shots of the 12" I am using for my 1/350 build:
> 
> View attachment 91007
> 
> ...


The wiring and "pack" for them seems awfully bulky. Are the wires long enough to reach from the pack to the nacelle, and is the ship large enough to accommodate all of that, in addition to the interior sets, etc? Or am I just being dense? (Don't answer that! :tongue: )


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## nanook177 (May 12, 2005)

bragstone said:


> you can get them here.
> 
> http://www.vibelights.com/


I got some of those, (6" kit to light my 1/537 refit) and I have a question: How do I power them? It looks like they were designed to be powere by a computer, so what do I need to use to power them. I am new to electronics so I'm sorry if this is a dumb question. 
Thanks!


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## galaxy_jason (May 19, 2009)

The only down side to CFL is that current draw. Lighting two nacelles will cost you at least an amp. Check our Raist's LED's With proper diffusing you can get very good results.


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## BruceDownunder (Aug 25, 2008)

Raist mentioned that he used four LEDs in the nacelles. 
Were these positioned along the length of the nacelle or were there two at each end directing light down the body of the nacelle?
I sent Raist a PM asking this, but I guess I'm just impatient...


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## bragstone (Apr 14, 2007)

nanook177 said:


> I got some of those, (6" kit to light my 1/537 refit) and I have a question: How do I power them? It looks like they were designed to be powere by a computer, so what do I need to use to power them. I am new to electronics so I'm sorry if this is a dumb question.
> Thanks!


I used these in my last case mod, they are to be suplied with 12VDC, from a computer power sulply, however it can be powered by a 12 volt battery also. You can also use 8 X 1.5 volt batterys, 120VAC to 12VDC 3 to 6 AMPs converter (wall wart)


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## Raist3001 (Oct 23, 2003)

BruceDownunder said:


> Raist mentioned that he used four LEDs in the nacelles.
> Were these positioned along the length of the nacelle or were there two at each end directing light down the body of the nacelle?
> I sent Raist a PM asking this, but I guess I'm just impatient...



Bruce, I responded to your PM on the 20th 

I did use 4 LEDS in my build. In this picture, you can view the hot spots just out of range of the clear grill insert, which will give you an idea of where I placed my LED's.

http://s23.photobucket.com/albums/b391/Raist3001/?action=view&current=P1010232.jpg

2 LEDs' on either side of the clear grill insert aimed at each other in order to flood the area with light. The clear grill was also frosted in order to disperse the light better.


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## BruceDownunder (Aug 25, 2008)

Awesome, thanks so much Tony & apologies for not seeing your PM.


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

Raist3001 said:


> Bruce, I responded to your PM on the 20th
> 
> I did use 4 LEDS in my build. In this picture, you can view the hot spots just out of range of the clear grill insert, which will give you an idea of where I placed my LED's.
> 
> ...


Best leds I've seen yet. Congrats on a great look!


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

Looks nice and even, Tony. :thumbsup: 

Your plan was to see the light reflected off the inside of the nacelle, not to see the LEDs directly through the grill, right?


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## Raist3001 (Oct 23, 2003)

SteveR said:


> Your plan was to see the light reflected off the inside of the nacelle, not to see the LEDs directly through the grill, right?


Correct. Other wise the clear grill would have shown hot spots.

You guys are too kind. Thank you for the kind words. Truth is, there are plenty of folks whose nacelle grills used the same technique and look great


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## AJ-1701 (May 10, 2008)

SawgrassRaven said:


> Fellas.
> 
> Great forum, first post!
> 
> ...


G'day mate :thumbsup: And yes you are right it is a great forum  I know I personaly have learned and grown with my hobby since joining...:wave: and hopefully made some cyberspace friends too.

Good luck with your build. 

I reckon I understand your thoughts on the aztecing but I myself couldn't see me doing it with out them. Just remeber it's your build so go for what you want and or are comfortable in doing. I can say that for myself this was a fantastic personal project in to many ways to comment. Now to prevent the silver you do need to do as Magesblood said "silvering = decals applied to a non-glossy surface. As shiny and smooth as you can get 'er a perfect decal will make." I pretty much use the micro scale gloss on all my builds under the decals. I've also used our version of future but I prefer the micro better and both shoot through an airbrush without thinning. I've also found the micro bushes on fairly well too. The trick for me is to not over apply the stuff. I then shoot over a coat of the clear after the decals have dried. To help the decals settle in I add some concentrated white glue to the water and then brush over some decal setand leave them dry for a day or so. I did this on my 1/350 build and my decals IMHO looks sweet.


I went with the leds rather than CCFL's mainly as all my lighting is run off a 9v pack. for the nacelles I used the same basic technique as Raist3001 with great results. Except I only used 2 leds on each nacelle and the only thing I really did as an extra was to brush several coats of clear flat at each end of the clear tubes where the leds were fitted and feather it out towards the middle and then apply the same effect on the back of the nacelle inserts.


Again good luck with the build and don't forget to post up how you going with it.

Cheers,

Alec.:wave:


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## Gunstar1 (Mar 1, 2007)

Hooray! Someone finally did NOT do their impulse deflection crystal blue!

Nice job Alec - I think that's the first I've seen of your finished product


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## AJ-1701 (May 10, 2008)

Thanks Gunstar1 

I scanned the dvd for hours just to confirm it's colour. I didn't realize that there aren't that many pics of the "E" from STTMP... and my pc monitor, tv and projector all have slightly differant colour contrasts which I did the greys in the shades I did plus I wanted a more para militery feel about it. But I did find the treads that You and Raist3001 did to be a big help in so many other areas.

Cheers,

Alec.


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## galaxy_jason (May 19, 2009)

Gunstar1 said:


> Hooray! Someone finally did NOT do their impulse deflection crystal blue!
> 
> Nice job Alec - I think that's the first I've seen of your finished product


Agreed, yellow/orange like TMP. Nice.

Per our discussion mine will be blueish white (well, white LED but I have some that have a blueish tint), as I am building "A".


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## BruceDownunder (Aug 25, 2008)

OK, I'm confused.

I don't really want to derail this thread, but there seems to be three different possibilities for the colour of the Impulse Deflector Crystal on the refit...

Firstly - blue
http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tmphd/tmphd1043.jpg
Secondly - Umm, Amber/beige
http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tmphd/tmphd1139.jpg
And finally - not at all! http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tmphd/tmphd2470.jpg

Crap - none of those links work.


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## jgoldsack (Apr 26, 2004)

I plan on using LEDs in my refit (once I get back to working on it.. 2 months hiatus ending soon I hope). Mainly because I find the CCFL too bulky, especially with the inverter having to be placed inside the already cramped model.

Using LEDs works just fine (as Raist has shown), if you are smart about where you place them, and how you place them.


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## galaxy_jason (May 19, 2009)

BruceDownunder said:


> OK, I'm confused.
> 
> I don't really want to derail this thread, but there seems to be three different possibilities for the colour of the Impulse Deflector Crystal on the refit...
> 
> ...


You can't direct link to the images on that site...but I went through and looked at them. The first one you reference is not blue...its just reflected light. It's not lit in that one because the impulse drive is not on. 

The second one is correct for TMP yellow/amber. You can see it come on with the impulse.

The last one is not on either, again, the impulse drive is off.

As Gunstar has pointed out, the impulse crystal is never blue in any motion picture! Most people go by the Reliant crystal in TWOK.


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## Gunstar1 (Mar 1, 2007)

BruceDownunder said:


> OK, I'm confused.
> 
> I don't really want to derail this thread, but there seems to be three different possibilities for the colour of the Impulse Deflector Crystal on the refit...
> 
> ...


If you do a search on the forum you will probably find a couple threads where I gave a bunch of screencaps talking about all the different colors throughout all the movies. Sum up:

TMP: No light. The only time it is ON is when the Impulse Engines are on, and that is only when it goes warp .5 and past Jupiter. Reddish orange (more red than the engines).

TMP DE: I don't consider this canon because they weren't staying faithful to the original portrayal - they screw up all the CGI shots of the E - 1: wormhole explosion - faint blue. 2: Probed by V'Ger - blue. 3: Parked at V'Ger brain complex - faint golden.

STII: There are few shots of the crystal, but it is pure white. Only RELIANT'S crystal is blue.

STIII: Pure white. The long shot of the approach to Spacedock is of the 22" amt miniature, and it is not lit there.

STIV: You don't see it.

STV: Not Lit (and you barely see it)

STVI: Sometimes lit (white - the last shot in the movie has a hint of yellow to the white) and sometimes not.

Somehow the whole idea of the crystal being blue got passed down and accepted as fact when in reality, IT NEVER WAS BLUE (this includes 1701-A) until 2000 when those guys didn't even pay attention.


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## BruceDownunder (Aug 25, 2008)

Thanks guys - I guess it's reddish orange then!


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## Fernando Mureb (Nov 12, 2006)

Do you guys think that would be possible to use eletroluminescent sheet to spread the light uniformly?


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## jgoldsack (Apr 26, 2004)

Fernando Mureb said:


> Do you guys think that would be possible to use eletroluminescent sheet to spread the light uniformly?


It would work quite well.. I was planning to do that myself (had 2 12" EL strips even for it) then I couldn't find an inverter that would power it AND fit inside the small spot in my model.... so I opted out of it.

Maybe my next one when I have a smaller shuttlebay.


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## Erk1701e (Feb 16, 2008)

Actually, in the HD shots of ST:II and III, the impulse crystal is blue. In the ST:III, it looks white, but there is clearly a blue glow around it.

http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/twokhd/twokhd0886.jpg

http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/twokhd/twokhd0832.jpg

http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tsfshd/tsfshd0631.jpg


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## Gunstar1 (Mar 1, 2007)

Take a look again at those trekcore screenshots - look at them side by side (dvd vs blu-ray).

Common procedure for dvd transfers (not just star trek) was to boost the saturation and the contrast, and more often than not there would also be an intentional tonal shift to a warmer spectrum - this is what you are seeing in the dvd transfer. Part of this has to do with the actual transfer of film to digital. Even when one scans color film slides with a high-end scanner, the resulting digital image ends up having a white balance that is on the very cool side. To compensate, the image then gets processed to counter that effect. But with doing that, you end up losing some data due to distortion - with blu ray, since you can see so much more of the film grain, it may have been best to avoid the distortion that would happen with processing - and the result is that you get a blu-ray image that has a more blue sheen to it. That is why you get a hint of blue (crystal) in II and III -if you compare the 2 (standard & blu-ray) versions, you can see the white balance difference.

Still there is a clear blu-ray shot in III where the crystal leans a little to the yellow side of white - when the Enterprise gets hit by the torpedo.

Given all that, the conclusion still stands that after TMP it is white - what kind of white? More to the yellow. That evidence is most apparent in III and VI.


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