# A Flagrant Violation of the "No Photography" Rule...



## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

I apologize for the poor quality of these pix, but they were taken on the fly and under duress.

Fact is, even if Paul Allen’s Museum of Science Fiction in Seattle allowed photography, the subjects are presented in such a manner as to defy proper archiving.

Still, it’s always fun to break the rules.


----------



## Opus Penguin (Apr 19, 2004)

Very cool. I have to get out there sometime whenever I am in the area.


----------



## Lloyd Collins (Sep 25, 2004)

Excellent photos! Now to sing about you, "Secret..Agent..Man, Secret..Agent..Man....."


----------



## falcondesigns (Oct 30, 2002)

Great work,Carson.Alexander


----------



## Dave Hussey (Nov 20, 1998)

Cool!

And thankfully the Secretary doesn't have to disavow any knowledge of your activities!

Got any pics of your sneaky disguise?

Huzz


----------



## mach7 (Mar 25, 2002)

Wow, nice photo of the Seaview. How did you get it? Mine are all too dark, even the flash didn't work well.


----------



## BlackbirdCD (Oct 31, 2003)

I was there with Cobywan a couple of weeks ago. The security guard walking through the exhibit figured out we were SF dorks, and being one himself spent most of the time trying to out-dork us with his extensive knowledge of SF. "I've got the greatest job in the WORLD, walking through here every day". 

And it's true, he does have a great job. I'd trade him in a minute if the salary equalled mine. 

But he kept chatting with us on and on and on. Clearly he wasn't a model builder, but he knew his Trek trivia:

Guard: "That's the ORIGINAL Enterprise D from Star Trek The Next Generation!"
Me (just getting up to it): "Yes, but is it the 6 foot original from ILM, or the 4-foot version that looked like it was made from brick?"
Guard: "Uh, uh... it's the one from ILM I think".

Aside from the fact that by walking up to the model you could easily tell it's the 6 footer, even without the ruler, any self-respecting SF Model builder should know this stuff.

But he kept on us and kept jabbering away. Coby and I figured that if we'd brought a camera we could've easily had one of us run interference with "Joe-Bob SF Museum Guard" and the other could've snapped a thousand pictures. (then we saw that they have other guards in the catwalks and corners where you don't see them so well, and they have radios).

The one thing we did find out though - you can spend the whole day in there with a sketchbook. Nothing wrong with that. 

And as far as reference pics are concerned, there is nothing in there that hasn't already been documented up, down, and sideways on the internet. So go for the religious experience, you won't regret it.


----------



## El Gato (Jul 15, 2000)

Couldn't you get arrested for these pics?? :tongue:


----------



## BlackbirdCD (Oct 31, 2003)

Arrested by the Sci-Fi Police, yes.


----------



## REL (Sep 30, 2005)

LOL what a rebel! Nice pics, thanks.


----------



## Steve244 (Jul 22, 2001)

El Gato said:


> Couldn't you get arrested for these pics?? :tongue:


He hasn't posted since this thread was started...  

But hey! It was worth it! Thanks!


----------



## fluke (Feb 27, 2001)

The Alien queen is my Fav part of the museum....you just gotta see this thing in person....its very creepy.

Nice pics Carson! :thumbsup: you sneaky dog.


----------



## Nova Designs (Oct 10, 2000)

I thank you for your flagrancy!



is that a word?


----------



## Lloyd Collins (Sep 25, 2004)

The debriefing must be taking longer, than we though!


----------



## Griffworks (Jun 24, 2002)

Kewel pics, Rob! Thanks for taking the risk, as well as sharin'. I just hope they weren't too rough on you with the 'probe! Bet you took it like a man, tho!


----------



## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

*WARNING! 

The following ILLICITLY OBTAINED images were taken IN DIRECT VIOLATION of the Museum of Science Fiction's strict "No Photos" policy. The man who took these pictures is VERY, VERY BAD, and should be ASHAMED OF HIMSELF. 

VIEW AT YOUR OWN DISCRETION!*

Okay, here are a few more pix.

I was a little disappointed by the absense of the _Proteus_ hero miniature from the museum. It sold at auction over a year ago (to Paul Allen, I had assumed) but the fact that it hasn't gone on display makes me wonder if it didn't go to another buyer.

As someone else mentioned, most of these subjects, with a couple of notable exceptions, have been documented to death. Even so, it's been my experience that when it comes to model making one can never have to many reference shots of any given subject.

BTW, a few of you have contacted me re: getting high-rez copies of the posted images. As it happens, I'm still on "vacation" (i.e. at home building models), but I'll do my best to fill all orders when I return to my office.


----------



## BlackbirdCD (Oct 31, 2003)

Not all of Paul Allen's stuff is on display at the museum. I suspect that he also has the original Refit Enterprise, but it's not there as yet either.


----------



## bert model maker (Feb 19, 2002)

Great pictures !


----------



## Lloyd Collins (Sep 25, 2004)

Thrilled to see the photos!


----------



## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

BlackbirdCD said:


> Not all of Paul Allen's stuff is on display at the museum.


Yeah, it takes a lot of objects d-art to decorate a yacht the length of a football field.

Kidding aside, I hope the miniatures in question are indeed in Mr. Allen's care. More than any other billionaire I can think of he seems to have a genuine affinity for the stuff.

BTW, I hope plans are still in the works for a Seattle area sci-fi model show -- i.e. a smaller, west coast version of WonderFest.


----------



## irishtrek (Sep 17, 2005)

Nice head shot of the D-7, heck of all the images.
What was that last image in your first post?


----------



## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

irishtrek said:


> What was that last image in your first post?


That's one of the refinery towers from _Alien_. Not sure what happened to the rest of the miniature.


----------



## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Ooooh! Nice pics!

Thanks for the sneak peek!


----------



## flyingfrets (Oct 19, 2001)

If the third shot in the second set of pics is a model of the Trek soundstage, that's pretty neat. But I bet John P's wife could do the job 10X better.


----------



## Capt. Krik (May 26, 2001)

flyingfrets said:


> I bet John P's wife could do the job 10X better.


Oh Yeah! I'd love to see her attempt that. Considering how magnificent her doll houses have turned out. I bet if she did the sound stage model you would swear it was a photograph of the actual sound stage.


----------



## Quintillus (Jul 2, 2002)

flyingfrets said:


> If the third shot in the second set of pics is a model of the Trek soundstage, that's pretty neat. But I bet John P's wife could do the job 10X better.


I think that is the vintage model of the soundstage that was used during production of TOS to help new directors visualize the layout. It is discussed over at IDIC.


----------



## mach7 (Mar 25, 2002)

Quintillus said:


> I think that is the vintage model of the soundstage that was used during production of TOS to help new directors visualize the layout. It is discussed over at IDIC.


Yup, It's the one built by Mr. Jefferies. Very cool.


----------



## Jafo (Apr 22, 2005)

thanks for posting and taking the chance. It always amazes me that some place would prohibit pics. its like the good cake/cookie recipie that someone wont share becasue its a "family secret" what bull#*&^!!!


----------



## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

To be fair to Mr. Allen, the copyright issues surrounding that collection --much of which is on loan and not owned by Allen -- constitute a legal hornet's nest. Rather than expose itself to a bunch of frivolous lawsuits the sci-fi museum follows the same No Pix policy as the Met in New York and any number of larger art museums. To a guy like Paul Allen, it's simply not worth it to run the risk of being taken to court over so trivial a matter. Especially when you take into account the fact that the Sci-Fi Museum is barely breaking even.


----------



## mach7 (Mar 25, 2002)

Last time I tried to take photos I was stoped by security, He wasn't nice!


----------



## terryr (Feb 11, 2001)

In that third photo there is an EXIT sign reflecting on the glass that lines up with the transporter room. Funny.

I was at the Western museum in Griffith park where they had a spaghetti western exhibit. 'No Photographs' signs around but I had to take a few of Eastwoods poncho, etc. Within a minute a security guard showed up, but I had the cardboard camera back in my pocket.
I wonder if it was coincidence or if they had a flash detector like Thunderbirds.


----------



## DX-SFX (Jan 24, 2004)

The Star Trek exhibit that came to London a few years ago had the even more ridiculous rule of photos were OK but not taken on "professional" i.e. SLR camera's. Given the quality of some compacts today, what a pointless and brain dead rule.


----------



## Prince of Styrene II (Feb 28, 2000)

Those are fantastic pics for a color reference for the D-7! Great job sneaking the pics!


----------



## Admiral Nelson (Feb 28, 2002)

What's this guy's problem with the no picture policy?


----------



## Mr. Wabac (Nov 9, 2002)

All of the models that are on display are owned by Paul Allen, who owns the Sci-Fi museum; he would retain rights to everything on display. If anyone would be stuckup about this subject it would be Mr. Lucas, who somehow is able to display most of his props/miniatures and allow flash photography where ever they are on display.

The fact that some people are able to take pictures and post them on the internet without the world coming to an end (or at least lawyers issuing C&D orders) seems to prove the point. Kudos to our friends in the rebellion !

PS: A Billionaire can't afford a lawyer ? A Microsoft founder is afraid of a lawsuit ?


----------



## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Mr. Wabac said:


> All of the models that are on display are owned by Paul Allen, who owns the Sci-Fi museum; he would retain rights to everything on display.


He might have a portion of the rights but the owners of the intellectual property involved (i.e. the design itself vs. any particular reproduction of that design) has the far greater say in when, where, and how it may be published in any form (besides what would be considered "fair use" in reviews and the like of said intellectual property).


----------



## BlackbirdCD (Oct 31, 2003)

Some of the display items are on loan, he doesn't own them all.

Besides, this guy doesn't owe any of you anything. Quit acting like a bunch of spoiled brats. I'm happy this crap is available at all, and not sequestered in someone's island retreat.

It's whining like this that give the rest of us a bad name.


----------



## TOS Maniac (Jun 26, 2006)

I can only say that I'm shocked...SHOCKED that you would flaunt such painstakingly wrought rules, laws and regulations! - indeed the very BEDROCK of our society simply for our perverse gratification. Sci Fi porn, in effect. Shameful!! ...And you did it to a poor, defenseless billionaire! 
BTW...you should consider yourself lucky. I've heard tell that Mr. Allen has the Klingon mind sifter (or mind RIPPER) in his collection. You might have been subjected to it. at force 4. Of course, when that much force is used the mind is left more vegetable than human.


----------



## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

Admiral Nelson said:


> What's this guy's problem with the no picture policy?


As I mentioned back in post 29, the No Pix policy is hardly unique to the Sci-Fi museum. I for one welcome the challenge!


----------



## Lloyd Collins (Sep 25, 2004)

BlackbirdCD said:


> Some of the display items are on loan, he doesn't own them all.
> 
> Besides, this guy doesn't owe any of you anything. Quit acting like a bunch of spoiled brats. I'm happy this crap is available at all, and not sequestered in someone's island retreat.
> 
> It's whining like this that give the rest of us a bad name.


Play nice! If you don't like what is said, don't read it anymore, or take it to PM, E-mail.

Thank you, 

Lloyd-Moderator


----------



## Seaview (Feb 18, 2004)

Wow! It's nice to see that the Spindrift is in better shape than the last time I saw an updated picture of it; THANKS!
B-but, gee, guys, now I feel kinda.. "dirty".
teeheeheehee :tongue:


----------



## fiercegaming (Jul 21, 2004)

Nice pics Carson. I like the shot of the D-7.... I have to visit that place sometime. Sorry to bring up an old question but I wonder if paul ever got the refit enterprise. If he has it and it goes on display...I'm there.


----------



## enterprise_fan (May 23, 2004)

Carson in your very first post for this thread there are five pictures. I can name the show/movie that they were all in except for the last one. 

#1 Land of the Giants
#2 Aliens
#3 Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea
#4 Lost in Space
#5 ?????????

What show/movie did object in picture #5 come from?


----------



## Eric K (Jul 15, 2001)

That would be one of the refinery towers from the Nostromo....(Alien).


----------



## irishtrek (Sep 17, 2005)

fiercegaming said:


> Nice pics Carson. I like the shot of the D-7.... I have to visit that place sometime. Sorry to bring up an old question but I wonder if paul ever got the refit enterprise. If he has it and it goes on display...I'm there.


Word was from back s few months ago he did have the refit.


----------



## Opus Penguin (Apr 19, 2004)

irishtrek said:


> Word was from back s few months ago he did have the refit.


If he displays it in the museum, I am there!!!


----------



## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

The current location and ownership of the _Enterprise_ Refit falls into the same inconclusive category as the (aforementioned) _Proteus_ hero miniature; Rumor has it both models are owned by Paul Allen, but I've been unable to confirm this with 100% certainty. After all, there are a lot of rich sci-fi geeks out there, and it's possible (albeit unlikely) that ione of them beat Allen to the punch at auction.

No doubt both will surface in time.


----------



## BlackbirdCD (Oct 31, 2003)

Lloyd Collins said:


> Play nice! If you don't like what is said, don't read it anymore, or take it to PM, E-mail.
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Lloyd-Moderator


Pfffft! I'll gladly quit reading.


----------



## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

Don't go away mad, Chris. Lloyd's just doing his job by trying to keep the peace.


----------



## BlackbirdCD (Oct 31, 2003)

Carson Dyle said:


> Don't go away mad, Chris. Lloyd's just doing his job by trying to keep the peace.


I've got to keep up my reputation as "barely likeable curmudgeon" somehow


----------



## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

Fair enough -- but be warned; around here you'll face some pretty stiff competition in the curmudgeon department.


----------



## Griffworks (Jun 24, 2002)

While I certainly agree w/your sentiment w/regards to the studio models and props, Chris, there wasn't a need to make a general attack like that. Basically, you could've said the same thing but w/o the flames. 

There, now your reputation as a "barely likable curmudgeon" is intact.  

BTW, I also agree w/the frustration of folks w/regards to the same models and props. It's a shame that there are folks out there who own these pieces of history, but sequester them away from the rest of us. While they don't owe us a darned thing, why not share what you've got, even if it's just for limited engagements? I mean, what SciFi Geek wouldn't want to be able to brag about owning some of those pieces? 

Thankfully, Mr. Allen _is_ sharing what he owns and I think it's something that a lot of folks tend to forget of late. For instance, the owner(s) of many of the TOS "Battlestar Galactica" models has them hidden away for whatever reason - I've heard several alleged reasons, but nothing substantiated. Anyhow, Mr. Allen shares, which is refreshing. While it's a bit of a pain to get decent reference pics of the subjects, at least they _are_ there for us to go drool over. As well as there are those willing to violate the edicts of the museum staff and snap some good pics.


----------



## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

Griffworks said:


> ...the owner(s) of many of the TOS "Battlestar Galactica" models has them hidden away for whatever reason - I've heard several alleged reasons, but nothing substantiated.


I know the fellow in question Jeff, and the reason he maintains a low profile is because he doesn't want to be pestered to death by legions of fans -- especially those possessed by a false sense of ownership and misplaced sense of entitlement (and there are _a lot_ of them out there).

The good news is he's looking to move the whole collection, so if you've got a few hundred grand burning a whole in your pocket lemme know and I'll drop him a line. 

BTW, because I asked nicely and was respectful of his privacy, this same guy LOANED me one of his models at no charge so I could have a studio scale replica made from it (pix of which I'll post in a few weeks).


----------



## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

Carson Dyle said:


> BTW, because I asked nicely and was respectful of his privacy, this same guy LOANED me one of his models at no charge so I could have a studio scale replica made from it (pix of which I'll post in a few weeks).


Wow. Human-to-human contact, with respect. What a concept.


----------



## F91 (Mar 3, 2002)

Carson Dyle said:


> Fair enough -- but be warned; around here you'll face some pretty stiff competition in the curmudgeon department.


 Chris is the Godfather of barely likeable curmudgeons.
Must be why I like him so much!


----------



## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

Compared to the likes of Dave Merriman CD's a fluffy little bunny.

And, yes, I like Merriman. Barely.


----------



## Admiral Nelson (Feb 28, 2002)

BlackbirdCD said:


> Some of the display items are on loan, he doesn't own them all.
> 
> Besides, this guy doesn't owe any of you anything. Quit acting like a bunch of spoiled brats. I'm happy this crap is available at all, and not sequestered in someone's island retreat.
> 
> It's whining like this that give the rest of us a bad name.


Will you *pleeeeeeeease* *stop **whining* about people who are *whining.*


----------



## irishtrek (Sep 17, 2005)

If Paramount has anything left from ST they want to get rid of then maybe they will donate the items to mueums that allow people to take photos including OMSI.


----------



## Griffworks (Jun 24, 2002)

Carson Dyle said:


> I know the fellow in question Jeff, and the reason he maintains a low profile is because he doesn't want to be pestered to death by legions of fans -- especially those possessed by a false sense of ownership and misplaced sense of entitlement (and there are _a lot_ of them out there).


 That's kewel. I used to be pretty hot on the subject myself and one day just let go of my frustration (Yoda would be proud of me!). It was one of those epiphanous moments. 

It's a shame that this guy has had so much ire directed his way for several decades. It's also a shame that he never allowed someone who was willing to share the info come and take a bevy of pics and publish them on DaNet for the sake of reference. Or even looked at having a reference book published if he wanted to make some money off of his possessions. Once something like that would have been done, no fans would feel the need to pester him. 

Well, _most_ fans wouldn't feel the need, I guess. There are always a few folks who'd've been stupid about it, I'm sure. 



> The good news is he's looking to move the whole collection, so if you've got a few hundred grand burning a whole in your pocket lemme know and I'll drop him a line.


Yeah, right. Maybe when I win the lottery.... 


> BTW, because I asked nicely and was respectful of his privacy, this same guy LOANED me one of his models at no charge so I could have a studio scale replica made from it (pix of which I'll post in a few weeks).


That's awesome. Look forward to your pics.


----------



## F91 (Mar 3, 2002)

Merriman is in another league. I tolerate Merriman. (Yes, I get the schtick, it just isn't that funny).



Carson Dyle said:


> Compared to the likes of Dave Merriman CD's a fluffy little bunny.
> 
> And, yes, I like Merriman. Barely.


----------



## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

F91 said:


> Merriman is in another league. I tolerate Merriman. (Yes, I get the schtick, it just isn't that funny).


I know Dave M. has pissed off a lot of folks, but I've found him to be very helpful when it comes to the actual nuts and bolts of model-making. 

As a matter of fact, I'm currently working on the big Rick Teskey-produced Flying Sub model that's featured on one of Steve Iverson dvds, and David has been extremely generous with his time and expertise on those occasions when I've bugged him for additional tips and pointers.

Good thing too, cuz I need all the help I can get. 

Anyway, here are a couple more SFM pix. The _E.T._ ship is one of those rare models that has not been documented up the wazoo. 

And I've always wanted to know what the back of Kirk's chair looked like (it was a tough angle to capture, but I gave it my best shot)....


----------



## Nova Designs (Oct 10, 2000)

Wow, I didn't know that ET model still existed! Its actually a lot less detailed than it looked on film. Is that a Dykstra model? Kinda looks like it.


----------



## Prince of Styrene II (Feb 28, 2000)

Excellent! Great shot of the ET ship model! I'm suprised you got so many clear shots with Security Boy & the gang around!



Carson Dyle said:


> because I asked nicely and was respectful of his privacy, this same guy LOANED me one of his models at no charge so I could have a studio scale replica made from it (pix of which I'll post in a few weeks).


What ship/s does he have, & which one did you get pictures of?


----------



## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

Nova Designs said:


> Wow, I didn't know that ET model still existed!
> Is that a Dykstra model? Kinda looks like it.


Well, the model was designed by Ralph McQuarrie (based on a Christmas Tree ornament) and built by ILM. Not sure who the actual model makers were, but I know Robert Shourt was one of them.

For years this miniature bounced around the Amblin offices at Universal until someone had the bright idea to loan it to Paul Allen. 




Prince of Styrene II said:


> What ship/s does he have, & which one did you get pictures of?


I didn’t get any, nor did I ask for any. The collection’s owner loaned me one of the Ragtag models – or rather, he loaned it to a professional model maker contracted by me to build a replica of it. 

In addition to the Big G and BaseStar models, this collector owns a number of vipers & marauders, and most (if not all) of the Ragtag Fleet. At one point he was in negotiations to sell the entire shebang to Paul Allen, but they were unable to come to terms over a price.


----------



## F91 (Mar 3, 2002)

Rob- Are you kitting the model?


----------



## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

I'm afraid not. Producing kits for sale isn't really my bag. Given the scale I'm not sure it would even be practical.


----------



## Griffworks (Jun 24, 2002)

... only for the most die-hard of Studio Scale enthusiasts. Even then, tho, I'll bet if you were to have a master made for casting you'd sell a few, regardless the cost.


----------

