# Fast Trackers? Why'd they get unrealistic?



## Jim Norton (Jun 29, 2007)

Life Like's original release (1994?) of the Fast Tracker Nascars were very nice and had very reasonably realistic bodies. 

Then, around 2002 I ordered 2 new ones and was disappointed to find the cars with fat and "morphed" looking bodies. Compared to my originals these new cars were comical!

Then again in 2004, my wife surprises me with a Catapilar Dodge Fast Tracker in my Christmas stocking. Boy, I thought the 2 from 2002 were awful looking! This car should have never been licensed by Chrysler. To say the least the body was bulbous with about a scale 3' of fender above the front tire! I never could make piece with the body and ended up throwing it away.

Can anybody offer any explanation why Life Like went from such realistic bodies on the original Fast Trackers to such comical ones on later releases?

Thanks in advance.

Jim Norton
Huntsville, Alabama


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## 1976Cordoba (Sep 20, 2000)

My question is:

Can anybody offer any explanation why NASCAR went from such realistic bodies in the '50s, '60s, '70s & '80s to such comical ones in later seasons?

As for the Life Likes . . . probably they went with a cheaper design team who then proceeded to FUBAR the whole mess.

Just a hunch.

'doba


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## neorules (Oct 20, 2006)

My opinion on the new LL car is that it is the best value in speed/dollar out there. Why they went to the wide body style is a mystery. I have heard that they want them to be closer in width to the real versions. Maybe the plan was to get more track sales since some other brands are too narrow for the wide bodies. Maybe they wanted to protect the front end more or keep the body from popping off easily. I'll ask next time I talk with them.


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

Sorry, didn't mean to post. Can't find a way to delete this.


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## FullyLoaded (Apr 19, 2006)

Thankfully they are going back to more realistic looking bodies like the Ford Fusion, Dodge Charger and even the current Chevy Monte Carlo looks good. They will be releasing the Honda Civic tuner and while the new Mustang and those Civics aren't the best detailed such as separate lights, chrome, etc. they aren't as bad as the comical cars of years past. They went from decent looking to plainly bad to at least reasonable copies. I think they would have sold more 1970 Boss Mustangs and Superbirds if they were more realistic looking but they almost made them cartoony.


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## T-Jet Racer (Nov 16, 2006)

1976Cordoba said:


> My question is:
> 
> Can anybody offer any explanation why NASCAR went from such realistic bodies in the '50s, '60s, '70s & '80s to such comical ones in later seasons?
> 
> ...


As cars become faster aerodynamics become a big issue. They are looking to get as smooth as possible ( aerodynamicly speaking).
Hence the smooth painted on headlights etc. They are pushing the technology envelope while attemting to make the car "look" like a street car.
At least that is how I see it.


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## SplitPoster (May 16, 2006)

T-Jet Racer said:


> As cars become faster aerodynamics become a big issue. They are looking to get as smooth as possible ( aerodynamicly speaking).
> Hence the smooth painted on headlights etc. They are pushing the technology envelope while attemting to make the car "look" like a street car.
> At least that is how I see it.


That's a polite way to look at it. Unfortunately, for some time all the cars have had to be shaped exactly the same - Chevy, Dodge, Toyota, whatever.
In the old days there were different templates for different models. The only thing that can be done now is to paint/decal on things to make them appear different. A solid rear axle, OHV V8, carbureted, steel-wheeled, cookie cutter shaped (fill in the blank) isn't pushing any envelopes, and doesn't bare any resemblance at all to the production street car it's based on. In former days, the two were pretty close in shape and design, then they would slap more spoiler on the faster cars to slow them down.

The technology is in the fine details, but when you see restrictor plate races where nobody can get out in front - the second and third row determine the winner - well, it makes good 20 second sports show highlight spots..... but it's no showcase of design and technology.

The cars were actually faster 20+ years ago, weren't they? Then there was concern (was it the Bobby Allison wreck that tore down the catch fence at Talladega, or was it Daytona?) that the heavy cars could go airborne and get into the stands. Funny that they never made them lighter - less momentum and kinetic energy.....


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## roadrner (Jul 21, 1999)

SP,
Some good points. I feel sorry for all the NASCAR fans that have never experienced the early days. Cars that anyone could buy were running around the track, at least they looked that way. Chrome bumpers, trim here and there, some added components like roll bars and their rebuilt trannies and motors, but still close enough to carry on the philosophy, what wins on Sundays, sells on Mondays.

Someday, maybe NASCAR will hold a couple of points races where the teams buy a car, add $25K worth of mods, safety being the key concern, keep it looking stock and bring her to the track to run. Would love to see how this would turn out with today's racers. 

:devil: rr


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## Ligier Runner (Nov 29, 2004)

I'm a NASCAR fan and have been since Darrell Waltrip was grating on the nerves of some of his fellow drivers in the '70s. I would love to have some stock cars provided they look somewhat realistic. At this point, Life Like does not have me as a customer because their cars are just plain fugly. I've tried talking myself into it but it taint workin'.


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## SplitPoster (May 16, 2006)

RR, you could get me started on the slippery slope that the heavy hands at the top of NASCAR have chosen..... and the slow decline that has resulted.

I am very particular on my race watching/spectating, though I caught myself watching the last 30 laps (and how many cautions?) at Daytona. Just not my cup of tea, if you will, so I guess you won't catch me at Talladega any time soon.

If you want really good production car racing from that bunch it does exist - under the Grand Am banner, Grand Sport and Sport Touring are great fun to watch. Mustangs, Porsches, Mazdas, BMW's, Pontiacs - it's very evident that some have more power, others much better brakes, and there are major differences in performance and driving style in different sections of the track, and at different venues. I have to look to find the broadcasts, but it's worth it. 

If I want to see prototypes, I like Le Mans or IMSA, where there are actually cars with a lot of individuality. 

Now I wish somebody would produce a bunch of current sporty cars, good proportion and detail, all scaled about the same so they could be run together and look right. I have to control myself from buying 1/32 (track goes up once a year lol) because I love the prod based cars and prototypes (if they come out with this year's Le Mans DBR 9's #'s 007 and 008 I am sunk once again). No eggs painted to look like something please, whether HO, 1:64 or 1:1!


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## Jim Norton (Jun 29, 2007)

*While we are talking NASCAR....*

I used to be a strong supporter of NASCAR.

The first race I ever saw was the second Atlanta race in 1979. When that race started, the cars came around for the first lap and it was/is THE MOST EXCITING thing I have ever seen. As those 42 cars rumbled by at track speed and all leaned into that first curve my legs were literally shaking and continued to do so for at least 10 laps. I could not believe the noise and the speed.

But it has changed much since then. My impression today of NASCAR is as follows (Apologizes to new NASCAR fans).

1) They no longer race they parade.

2) I am sick of pretty boy drivers, their sunglasses and their tv commercials.

3) NASCAR is a promoter much like WWF (The World Wrestling Federation).

4) Restrictor plates ruined racing.

5) The points system ruined racing. (Let who wins the most races win the championship.)

6 Not being able to race back to the finish under yellow is no longer racing (see item #1).

7) Speed limits on pit lane are no longer racing.

8) Pusues political correctness by "discouraging" the time honored practice of flying the "Stars and Bars."

9) Pit crews wear helmets?

10) There is no distinction between the makes. So much for "win on Sunday sell on Monday."

11) I think it all started downhill when NASCAR let Ford race a 4 door.

Recently, I looked at and old video tape of the 1981 Daytona 500. Time after time there was a pass into the third turn. The lead changed numerous times. It was amazing compared to today where you "might" want to tune in for the last five laps. Give me that racing any day over what passes for NASCAR today.

P.S. Just how bad it has become?.....the team owner of Sterling Marlin and Nemichek (?) let them go mid-season because "sponsors were interested in younger drivers." Its no longer about crossing the finish line first. 

Jim Norton
Huntsville, Alabama


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## SplitPoster (May 16, 2006)

Jim, your message resonates with me, and many of us who grew up in the South, when NASCAR was still considered more of a regional draw trying to grow into a national one. Back when drivers promoted the series, trying to get all the races televised, trying to make sure MRN was on the radio in local markets. That was a neat time. Makes one mad and sad to see who is pulling the strings now.

I have no qualms about safety - I'll disagree a little with you there. The power brokers kept those heavy, over-rigid cars too long, mega high g force peaks on impact, and it cost them lives. Slow to change, it's all about appearences, isn't it? Helmets in the pit lane are a good thing, though the full-face mirrored visor thing is pure schtick. Folks don't get burned in flash fires like they used to, nor does a fall over a jack or hose result in a concussion or cracked noggin. Speed limits - as long as they use absolutely antiquated (for pro racing) 5 lug wheels (Camrys come with 4, eh?) instead of center locks, the guys on the ground are even more exposed and vulnerable. Want safety? Make pit stops easier and faster by design - it won't happen.
I think as long as crew members are on the ground, pit lane speed limits are here to stay.

I always thought the road racing yellow flag system - local or full course as needed, race to the station or flag preceding the incident -makes more sense, especially when flags are thrown for phantom debris on the race track or when somebody in charge has to use the restroom lol.

That's why I have to appreciate NASCAR in a nostalgic way - forget the current parade - and appreciate the days when sometimes races were won big, and some cars were better than others on a given day because of better design and parts. I don't think the Alabama gang would get along with the system too well nowadays, do you?


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## Ligier Runner (Nov 29, 2004)

Though I'm still a Nascar fan, it's not my religion like it used to be. I also have to disagree with some things like pit crews wearing helmets being perceived as helping to ruin the sport in some way. I have no problem with decisions made that don't take away from the racing itself.

Long ago the writing was on the wall and I told many of my racing fan friends that Nascar would turn into a glorified IROC series and with the COT, I believe it's complete. I still enjoy catching some laps and rooting for my favorite drivers but it's not a priority anymore.

Funny how it is when something that is kind of "underground" (so to speak) becomes "mainstream" it loses some or most of its luster because of changes that occur.


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## bigun624 (May 11, 2005)

Give me a good 3/8 mile dirt track with 24 streetstocks,modifieds,latemodels,or sprintcars. It dont get no better on saturday night.


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## Ligier Runner (Nov 29, 2004)

I'll go for that as well. I saw a t-shirt one time that said it best - If you don't have dirt in your beer, you're not at a real race. :thumbsup:


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## twolff (May 11, 2007)

I agree that NASCAR has lost it's luster and become too much like Pro Wrestling, but I still think dirt is for farmming  (Hey, I was smiling when I said it).


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## videojimmy (Jan 12, 2006)

I watch NASCAR on Sunday, when I need an afternoon nap. It's like watching golf on TV anymore. 


I grew up about a half mile from Flemington Speedway, a dirt track that many national drivers would come by and race on.... they close it in 2000 I think. 

Man, I had some fun times there.


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## wheelszk (Jul 8, 2006)

Go GRANDVIEW SPEEDWAY


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

Out here on the final frontier we hit the Elma fairgrounds a couple times a season. What a Blast! There's just something about flying dirt, the delicious odor of methanol, and close quarters...now I'm hungry for some greasy chow!


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## SplitPoster (May 16, 2006)

Sometimes when the wind and air is just right on a Saturday night we can hear the big cars running miles away at "L.A. Speedway" - that's Lower Alabama LA, lol, dirt in all its glory I told my (lovely, charming and ever so patient) TM that it would be fun to go watch some time, and (shock) she said yes it would.....


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## Ligier Runner (Nov 29, 2004)

Bill Hall said:


> the delicious odor of methanol


LOL...What is it about racing fans loving the smell of methanol? I love it too!

One of my favorite memories is going to the Ft. Wayne Coliseum and watching the midgets run indoors! The smell in there would get so intense it would make your eyes water and halfway gag. Then they would open the doors to air out the place and being that they held the event in January, you would soon start freezing. Ah! What great times. :thumbsup:


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## bigun624 (May 11, 2005)

Thats funny me and my son were at the races saturday and he was telling me dad i love that methanol smell.


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## bigun624 (May 11, 2005)

Also like the t-shirt "dirts for racing asphalts for getting there"


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## Slott V (Feb 3, 2005)

*Nasfarce*

It is official:

The new name for NASCAR is;
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IROC

:drunk:


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## bigun624 (May 11, 2005)

That wouldnt be to bad if it makes for good racing. Seems to work pretty well in slotcars in some cases.


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## Ligier Runner (Nov 29, 2004)

Where I have a problem with Nascar nowadays is how they and advertisers try to appear they are still the same entity they were 30 years ago. Chevy vs. Ford vs. Dodge vs. whoever. It's a spec series plain and simple (even more so with the COT) and there is no more "car brand".

There's no sense in running IROC any longer if they wanted to. Just paint a bunch of COT cars different solid colors, slap sequential numbers on them, and go.


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## SplitPoster (May 16, 2006)

LR, you make an excellent point. It has devolved into its own support series. Identical advertising platforms! Tssk, tssk, that whole misrepresentation thing only affects people WHO ACTUALLY PAY ATTENTION! Short attention span required, small words, must buy Bud, go to Lowes, mmmm donuts....... 

Nothing wrong with spec car series, can make for some boring-to-watch racing though, except for the inevitable wrecks..... 

Seriously, as the purported race car focus is on affordable family cars, no longer limited to tradition American brands (be they made in Canada or Mexico)..... If I were Kia or Hyundai, I would make a very public play to join. When denied, I would run my own big advertising campaign stating "What, do they think we're not good enough for them? We want to build a 2 ton V8 race car and compete too! I guess for now we'll have to be satisfied with building the best cars for the real world.... (send consulting fee to SP, I take pay pal.)


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## Ligier Runner (Nov 29, 2004)

SplitPoster said:


> Nothing wrong with spec car series, can make for some boring-to-watch racing though, except for the inevitable wrecks.....


Very much agreed. I don't mind spec car series racing. Just don't try to tell me it isn't when it is.


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## vaBcHRog (Feb 19, 2003)

Maybe its time for someone to start a Strictly Stock frontwheel drive racing series based on real cars with the seats pulled out rollbars welded in and doors welded shut. Cut a flap over the right from inside attach a string so you can pull it up and check tires wear.

Limit the engine size to what most folks buy either a small v6 or 4 this would bring the speeds back down to where the were in the 60s and let the fun begin. Run about 40 races a year with most at home town small tracks both dirst and asphault and only have 3 to 5 races per year on the big ones.

Roger Corrie


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## Ligier Runner (Nov 29, 2004)

I believe they call a variation of what you're talking about Thundercars or Mini Stocks at our local tracks here.


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## *MAYHEM* (May 4, 2007)

vaBcHRog said:


> Maybe its time for someone to start a Strictly Stock frontwheel drive racing series based on real cars with the seats pulled out rollbars welded in and doors welded shut. Cut a flap over the right from inside attach a string so you can pull it up and check tires wear.
> 
> Limit the engine size to what most folks buy either a small v6 or 4 this would bring the speeds back down to where the were in the 60s and let the fun begin. Run about 40 races a year with most at home town small tracks both dirst and asphault and only have 3 to 5 races per year on the big ones.
> 
> Roger Corrie


They do that here in Columbus. Only thing is, after the first race they realised they needed two people in the car. Only one guy pedaling was just too slow. 

I grew up 3 miles from Limaland Motor Speedway (1/4 mi dirt), 20 miles from Millstream Speedway (3/8 mi dirt), 35 mi from New Breman (1/2 mi paved) and 45 mi from Eldora. I've breathed in more dirt, oil smoke, methanol, rubber and everything else to have died from it by now. (and people worry about my smoking)

My dad and I would frequently go to Limaland on Fri night, Millstream or New Breman on Sat and Eldora on Sunday. I loved my childhood.


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## *MAYHEM* (May 4, 2007)

SplitPoster said:


> .... If I were Kia or Hyundai, I would make a very public play to join. When denied, I would run my own big advertising campaign stating "What, do they think we're not good enough for them? ....


One problem there: KIA is owned by Ford and Hyundai is owned in large part by GM (IIRC) Toyota has been accepted because they are the top selling make in America and have higher production than the "big three".


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## SplitPoster (May 16, 2006)

Umm, Mayhem, please correct me if I'm wrong... Kia at one time had a partnership with Ford, building vehicles with Mazda or Ford badges (the Aspire is one), but when Kia went bankrupt in 1999 Hyundai outbid Ford and now owns Kia outright. Check on that GM ownership.... I don't think that's current info.


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## LeeRoy98 (Jul 8, 2005)

I disagree... these are the "good old days". As a NASCAR fan for over 40 years, I remember the races where the leader had 1-3 laps on the rest of the field. I remember the 3-4 teams with a realistic chance to win. And I remember the rampant cheating. I remember the numerous drivers that are no longer with us because safety was ignored.

A Nascar "stock" car has not been even close to the showroom car since the early 60's. I do not like the aero blobs that have evolved in Nascar, but I applaud the move to the COT from a competition perspective. And I believe it will improve the competition. 

Nascar is now big business. I have read a lot of suggestions as to what Nascar should be today and my response is that most if not all of the suggestions exist in some form. But people still flock to the Nascar races. Nascar is stronger today than ever and still growing. I too am nostalgic for the "simpler" years but when I am truly honest... the racing is better today.

I remember the day Fireball Roberts was injured. I remember crying the entire day when I found out he had died. I remember the day Friday Hassler left us... I could go on but I don't care to. And I don't want to experience these feelings again. So as long as a rule is based on safety, i.e. hans device, pit crew helmets, pit lane speeds, softer barriers, etc., then I will support them.

I repeat... in my estimation these are the "good old days".

Gary
AKA LeeRoy98
www.marioncountyraceway.com


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## bigun624 (May 11, 2005)

Well said gary nascar just like everything else "progress". I remember when you could work on the family car now its hard to even find or get to the sparkplugs.


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## Ligier Runner (Nov 29, 2004)

LOL...Back in '89 I went looking for a new vehicle and decided on some type of pickup. I went with a Chevy S10 due in part because I could actually SEE the spark plugs!


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

*Progress, Pay me now or pay me later*



bigun624 said:


> Well said gary nascar just like everything else "progress". I remember when you could work on the family car now its hard to even find or get to the sparkplugs.


This is because you're not supposed to! The magical workings of the internal combustion engine are considered taboo to the end user. 

The octopus articulations required to yank sparkplugs or a fuel filter would baffle a Chinese contortionist. Even if you have the the special U-jointed, wobbly end extension, with the orbital head ratchet, the thin walled magnetic socket with the pool cue attachment that goes around corners, your still barking your knuckles, inventing new curse words, and keeping the tool trucks in high cotton. 

Your only requirment is to pay! 

In an independent shop, it was considered punishment, or the acid test for a new guy to do the plug RR on a Ford Triton motor. Picture if you will having to climb up, kneel on the core support or lay across the engine with your butt skyward and fidget the plugs from under the injector rail and individual coil pack looms, after of course you had loosened them to move them out of the way to even have a prayer of losing your socket down there somewhere's. We'd all laugh and holler, "Ass-ume the position", when one rolled in! God help you if you had a junk plug new out of the box. It happens.

Todays longer plug service intervals may seem great till you have to pay for the new wires and the sweater you've got to knit in order to crochet them through their proper routing. See Mr customer they're smelted on to the plug cuz they've been on there for 80 to 100k miles and have become one to themselves and 5 of your plugs were siezed in the heads and we had to call in neuro surgeon from Johns Hopkins to extract them with out destroying the head. That'll be $800.00 please  

All designed by some rocket scientist with a niftiest computer design program you've ever seen that doesnt have ten fingers or a wrist that only bends two ways.

"My ABS light is on!"... "Cant you just reset it? I'm in a hurry and I cant afford to find out why right now anyway!"... snicker. OK. Three days later. "My ABS light is on again and YOU just reset it!" Well ya see Mr Customer all that goo from your blown CV axle boot, brake dust, and that off road camping excursion has packed your ABS reluctor with sludge so it doesnt read (that would be the doo-hickey that tells the ABS what to do and you have four). That'll be $1000 to rip your front end apart change the axle (cheaper to change the axle than fix the boot!?? Go figure). Might as well change the trans axle output flange seal while we're here too... pick all the sludge out of your reluctor... your front brakes are worn down past the "crickets" (the little metal tabs that have been warning you when your linings are getting thin )... and by the way your rotors cant be turned cuz their on the ragged edge of machineability and heat checked anyway. Your back brakes need done too cuz although they were marginal 30k ago they are not now! Front wheel drive cars wear the fronts out almost 2 for 1 vs the back...see, according to our records you cheaped out and only did front pads last time... and we'll have to charge you for resetting the ABS light when were done. LOL. (Muttering under our breath) #%&^#@* Probably told you all that the other day when you where in too big a hurry to listen and couldnt afford it anyway!

Sorry guys just a snapshot of real progress. Todays Nascar's might be cookie cutter versions but they resemble the Nascar's cars of old considerably more than any of today's production cars (Notcars) resemble a Nascar of today. There still carbureted, hydrocarbon belching, state of the art hotrods and for that I'm grateful.


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## Ligier Runner (Nov 29, 2004)

Bill Hall said:


> There still carbureted, hydrocarbon belching, state of the art hotrods and for that I'm grateful.


True. And they're still rear wheel drive.


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## noddaz (Aug 6, 1999)

*but...*



Ligier Runner said:


> True. And they're still rear wheel drive.


Even if they do use copies of front wheel drive bodies..... lol


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## *MAYHEM* (May 4, 2007)

SplitPoster said:


> Umm, Mayhem, please correct me if I'm wrong... Kia at one time had a partnership with Ford, building vehicles with Mazda or Ford badges (the Aspire is one), but when Kia went bankrupt in 1999 Hyundai outbid Ford and now owns Kia outright. Check on that GM ownership.... I don't think that's current info.


Somehow I'm not surprised. ownership of a lot of companies change hands faster than I can keep up with.


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## hefer (Sep 18, 1999)

Anybody know what year they first allowed teams to fabricate body parts. That's when I think NASCAR lost it's way.


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## SplitPoster (May 16, 2006)

One thing NASCAR has accomplished is to polarize race fans regarding its top level series. In the old days, there were diehard fans, and there were a lot of naysayers who didn't know much about it at all. Now a fair percentage of the fan base doesn't care much about the details, only the glitter and action, while many of the critics are very much in the loop.

Gary, you're a good fellow - and a lot of what it comes down to is what you prefer to watch and keep up with. To each his own. You get something, you give up something. You have virtually identical cars, you get a lot of cars running together. You don't get the dull, big-lead win, but you don't get the miracle comeback. You get the big pack running close together nudging each other ahead, you don't get the dramatic slingshot pass for the win. You get the huge crowds at the huge new mega-tracks near big cities, you lose races in smaller markets like Rockingham or North Wilkesboro, not to mention any open weekends. 

The NASCAR win I remember most (don't ask me why) was Bobby Allison winning at Riverside in the dark (as there were no track lights). And realizing that some of those guys could drive on road courses and ovals.

Times do change. No more "ship in a bottle, tube-in-a-tub cars." Too fast. How much should be done to enforce parity and put on an exciting show? Just right or too far? A matter of opinion and debate.


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## LeeRoy98 (Jul 8, 2005)

*I disagree... or do I??*

Actually, my biggest complaint all revolves around television. I love most any form of auto racing and would watch. But the broadcasting companies need to learn how to broadcast a race. We went to the Gateway Busch race and watched a tremendous battle between Carl Edwards and Scott Wimmer while Mike Bliss was running a very cool strategy race. We got home and watched a replay of the race to see Reed Sorenson lead lap after lap... I think the biggest problems in racing today is a lack of coverage for numerous events along with poor coverage for the racing that is covered.

Gary
AKA LeeRoy98
WWW.MarionCountyRaceway.com


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