# 4'x4' help needed



## Xence (Oct 2, 2007)

I have a board that my father and I put together around a year ago. I used the stock daytona coupe SRT Carroll Shelby set on this layout. Well I'm bored with this now and I'm tired of the over/under thing because some of the cars seem to get stuck on the overpass. For all I know I could have this set up wrong but this is meant as a quick setup. The track is nailed to the board, I have the fake grass throughout, and at this point I want a completely flat track so there are no problems. As the title states I have a 4'x4' layout to work with. I don't want just straights, I want 1 or 2 good long straights and then everything else should be twisty. Is there either software (free please) I can download, a layout someone knows of or some other way of determining a good layout for this?

Thanks for looking,
Xence


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## dlw (Aug 17, 1999)

Gee, that's not much space there, but maybe you can do a version of the Tuckaway track shown on http://www.hoslotcarracing.com . Go to the Layouts section, scroll down and you'll see the Tuckaway, which is shown on a 36" x 80" plan. Just shorten the main straights, and it could work.


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## martybauer31 (Jan 27, 2004)

Good long straights and 4x4 don't actually go together unfortunately......

I'd recommend going and picking yourself up a cheapo interior door from your local hardware/limber store and going to the link dlw provided you above, a 3x8 is about as small as you want to go for a decent track.


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## Xence (Oct 2, 2007)

I guess my only real question would be then is how portable will this be?

After thinking this through for awhile I came up with something else: This track is not really meant for really high end racing, this is meant more for me being able to mess around with my cars, make them go faster... etc.... you get the basic idea. Currently I don't really race with anyone and in order to start fullblown racing I plan on (given some time) getting a maxtrax track. Until then I, as stated previously, want a small portable setup. The question is thus: Does anyone know where I can get an X track where the tracks crossover one another? I found an old style one back from the model motoring days. Here is a listing from the bay for it here:

http://cgi.ebay.com/LOT-OF-AURORA-T...oryZ2618QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Anyone know where I can get one of these for todays tracks? Like the Daytona Coupe race set as I described in the 1st post?

Thanks,
Xence


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## twolff (May 11, 2007)

Life-Like makes a cross-over track. You could use it with Life-Like to Tomy track adapters, but the lane spacing and esp. the rail height is different between the two brands. I don't know of a Tomy cross-over.

My 4x8 feels cramped as it is. I can't imagine one half its size.


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## cagee (Apr 20, 2007)

I think the new Dukes of Hazzard race set from Autoworld is supposed to have an x track in it. Best I could tell from the pic on the website anyway. I heard it is supposed to fit the AFX style track and it should be coming out anytime now.


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## krazcustoms (Nov 20, 2003)

By the way, Tomy DID make a 90 degree intersection. I have one. Come to think of it, though, I don't think I've ever seen another. It came in the Power Rangers set, along with 15" straights and 12" radius banked curves. For how ridiculous the vehicles were, it came with some nice Tomy track pieces.


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## dlw (Aug 17, 1999)

In the meantime, Xence, you should give a shout to Micyou. He also lives in Connecticut and knows the racers in your area. They can also help you out with your platform plans. Some opinions in person helps ideas and inspiration.


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## tjd241 (Jan 25, 2004)

*I hear ya...*

But... a small layout with no elevation changes is a tough nut to crack. More so at only 4 x 4. You either gotta build in (fill the infield with tight radius turns or hairpins) or build up. Maybe the cars are getting stuck due to the connection tabs? There are little bumps on the tabs that you can file off. This allows for a smoother connection. I made the mistake of NOT removing these and believe me ...I'll never do that again. One of the HT members (Slotrod) posted a neat little layout. Don't know how big it is, but here is the HT link to his post. Sure it's small, but it's well balanced and looks fun!!! Plus his landscaping came out really nice. nd

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/attachment.php?attachmentid=45835


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## zanza (Sep 23, 2005)

On my website you could see my Zanzavoort track, which is definitely small, usable and fun (but you can forget to full speed with a magnet missile)










My track page is here


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## Dslot (Sep 2, 2007)

zanza said:


> On my website you could see my Zanzavoort track, which is definitely small, usable and fun (but you can forget to full speed with a magnet missile)
> ...
> My track page is here


Wow. What a great little track. Even more impressive when I go to the track page and see that it's a fold-down in a bookcase!

I really think that Xence should abandon the 4x4 format if the space allows. A 3'x5'4" has the same number of square feet but allows for a longer straight and easier reaches. 

Like Marty, I am a big fan of hollow-core doors. A 28" wide door actually has fewer square inches than the 4x4', but is much more usable, with a decent straight and room for twisty bits on the far side, with easy reaching everywhere. The doors are very light, but rigid. Don't screw legs on, but just lay it across a couple of wooden TV tray tables (about 4-7 bucks at the Goodwill) or sawhorses. Screwing a handle to one side will let one man carry it vertically, as long as you can remove the weighty or fragile stuff (power supply, etc.) first.

If you have some time, hollowcore doors regularly turn up at garage sales for a couple of bucks apiece (I have a large assortment of sizes at a total investment of about 12 bucks). A second-hand builders' supply will charge maybe 7-10. Even if you have to buy new, it's only $20-25.

--D


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

As far as portablility, consider using folding banquet table legs under the track. These can be found at Home Depot, Lowe's, etc. Just the right height too.

As to the 90 degree intersection, there were intersections for Tomy, Tyco and Lifelike. If you are looking for a Tomy intersection, check with a dealer who orders from REH - they may have some in stock; although I doubt it. Same with Tyco.

Lifelike intersections are the most readily available. Try www.hobbylinc.com.

You could also make intersections using some of the Tyco/Mattel single lane intersections. However, this gets to be a bit expensive because you need two sets of single lane adapters for a two lane track.

Joe


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## Dslot (Sep 2, 2007)

After telling Xence to try a differently proportioned table because of all the disadvantages of the square 4x4-foot, I got to wondering what you could do with a 4x4, if you had to. Here's the best I could come up with.

*No. 1* is an attempt to get road-course curves and a high-speed section. Since the 4x4 severely limits straightaway lengths I used Tomy's 18" and 15" radius curves to continue the high-speed section. For a reasonable length of run, 6" radius curves folded inside the main circuit are necessary. I had just bought a Tomy 3"R hairpin, and wondered what it would let you do in track design. It turned out that it makes quite a difference to the amount of track you can get in a small space.

*No. 2* is a modification of No. 1, attempting to cram as much track in as possible. In addition, the curve marked A has been changed from 9"R to 15"R at the expense of the straights, in order to lengthen the high-speed section. This change could easily be made to layout No. 1 also. I find this one has too crowded a feel and it would be easier for a marshal to get confused as to which direction to put a deslotted car in.​
And now for something completely different --

*No. 3* started as an attempt to maximize straightaway length by placing the straight on a diagonal, but the space needed for the curves in the cramped corner quickly nixed that idea. As it stands, No. 3 is now a track for the guy who is willing to sacrifice run-length to keep the curves wide radius (except for the inevitable 3" hairpin - sorry).​I still think a longer layout with 3' or smaller width is much better, because it allows longer straights and all points can be reached from one side, but I was surprised to find what could be done with the 4-foot square, if you set your mind to it.

-- D


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## zanza (Sep 23, 2005)

Dslot, thanks for your appreciation of my little track  

BTW, what software did you use to make your tracks suggestions?


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## Xence (Oct 2, 2007)

OMG!!! D-Slot. That's fantastic. I saw that last night (but didn't have time to respond) and about wet myself. As Zanza was saying though, what software did you use? I would have NEVER thought to use a hairpin turn in this sort of setup. That really rocks as it forces people to learn how to drive their cars and not just barrel through everything. Old Can-Am style track if you will. Left's and rights, can't beat that with a stick. 

Not sure if anyone would know this but I have one of those GIANT 62.5 raceways by tomy/afx. Does that come with, except the hairpin, all of the pieces I would need to create that setup that was shown in D-Slot's post?

Cheers,
Xence


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## dlw (Aug 17, 1999)

Xence, that set you have doesn't have 18" curves, or enough 6" pieces. Maybe a shop (be it online or brick-n-mortar) broke up sets to sell 18" cuves, or you can get Grandcheapskate's 18 Tomy compatible pieces.


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## Dslot (Sep 2, 2007)

zanza said:


> Dslot, thanks for your appreciation of my little track


 Hi, Zanza. That track combines several of the things that push my buttons. It is small (I always seem to be tight on space), it folds down from the workbench/bookcase, the varied curves give it the look and feel of a real track, and then there's that wonderful name...



zanza said:


> BTW, what software did you use to make your tracks suggestions?


 It's my own system. The track-design programs on the web are for PCs, but I use a Macintosh. Being a (mostly) retired graphic artist, I just did all the elements up from scratch in Adobe Illustrator for Macintosh. Each track piece is a movable element; I just create one each of the particular pieces I need, duplicate it when I need more and nudge and fiddle 'em into place. Since I don't have the enhancements that the good track-design programs have - like automatic piece-to-piece locking and alignment, I have to be careful that I don't inadvertently cheat by overlapping the track sections. Then I fudge up scenery and buildings. I'd sure like to have that 3-D perspective viewing thingie in *Ultimate Racer 3.0*, but not badly enough to learn to program 3D (or start working on a PC). One thing I _am_ happy with in my homebrew program is the appearance. I do think it's prettier than the commercial ones I've seen, but since I designed the look to please myself, I guess that sort of follows.

Thanks for the interest. Oh, and thanks for the billboards and the great list of links on your site, I've been using it ever since I renewed my interest in slot cars. In fact, that's how I found this forum.

-- D


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## Xence (Oct 2, 2007)

Zanza, ok great. I was kind of worried about those 2 pieces out of all of them. No worries though, if I can find the pieces that I need for a decent price then I'm going to build one of those. I understand what you guys are saying about the 3' x 5.4' deal. Makes sense but I honestly just don't have the space for that. The 5.4' is what hurts me. I'm going to take a bit of time and see where I can find those pieces and for how cheap I can find them. Obviously the cheaper the better.

Cheers,
Xence


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## Dslot (Sep 2, 2007)

Xence said:


> OMG!!! D-Slot. That's fantastic. ... That really rocks as it forces people to learn how to drive their cars and not just barrel through everything. Old Can-Am style track if you will. Left's and rights, can't beat that with a stick.
> 
> Not sure if anyone would know this but I have one of those GIANT 62.5 raceways by tomy/afx. Does that come with, except the hairpin, all of the pieces I would need to create that setup that was shown in D-Slot's post?


It was an interesting challenge. I'm glad I could give you some help or inspiration. I don't know what set you have, but you will probably need to buy all the 18"R curves, and some extras of the 6"R and perhaps 15"R, depending. Just make a list of how many of each type you need from the diagram and compare it to what you have in the box.

Have fun.
-- D


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## jkstewart1 (Dec 14, 2005)

D-slot, that's a fantastic use of the space! I was trying to dream up a good, challenging layout to put together for my oldest son (11) for Christmas. You've put together a track better than what I would have ever come up with myself! Beautiful and excellent work!


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## Xence (Oct 2, 2007)

yeah I'm not sure what I do or don't have, I'm at work of course, so when I get home I'll pull the sheet out and look. Now for the pieces that I'm missing, if the local brick and mortar place doesn't have the stuff anyone know where I can buy this stuff? 

Cheers,
Xence


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## zanza (Sep 23, 2005)

Dslot said:


> Hi, Zanza. That track combines several of the things that push my buttons. It is small (I always seem to be tight on space), it folds down from the workbench/bookcase, the varied curves give it the look and feel of a real track, and then there's that wonderful name...
> 
> It's my own system. The track-design programs on the web are for PCs, but I use a Macintosh. Being a (mostly) retired graphic artist, I just did all the elements up from scratch in Adobe Illustrator for Macintosh. Each track piece is a movable element; I just create one each of the particular pieces I need, duplicate it when I need more and nudge and fiddle 'em into place. Since I don't have the enhancements that the good track-design programs have - like automatic piece-to-piece locking and alignment, I have to be careful that I don't inadvertently cheat by overlapping the track sections. Then I fudge up scenery and buildings. I'd sure like to have that 3-D perspective viewing thingie in *Ultimate Racer 3.0*, but not badly enough to learn to program 3D (or start working on a PC). One thing I _am_ happy with in my homebrew program is the appearance. I do think it's prettier than the commercial ones I've seen, but since I designed the look to please myself, I guess that sort of follows.
> 
> ...


YEAAHHH ! A Mac user, finally I feel less alone !! 
I've started with a II Cx, back in those days when Photoshop (2.1) was without layers, history and all that stuff LOL


Of course it's prettier, it's made on Mac :wave: 
I'm also on Mac and my tracks illustration are made from elements I've found looong time ago and then assembled in Freehand (I use to be better on this than in Illustrator)

BTW, it exists a program automatizing track construction on OSX, it's called RailModeller 2.3.4, not very beautiful but automatizing the process and with a 3D section either... PM me for further infos :hat: 

Did you see that I've put up a nice Filemaker database for maintaining a collection (under my for sale section). A fellow from here has tried it on PC and says it did'nt work but as you're on Mac, it should....


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## Dslot (Sep 2, 2007)

Xence said:


> Now for the pieces that I'm missing, if the local brick and mortar place doesn't have the stuff anyone know where I can buy this stuff?


My local HobbyTown USA store had the 18"R curves in Tomy AFX Accessories packaging, so I guess they're available separately now. And Joe (  GrandCheapskate on this forum) makes and sells 18"R pieces for Tomy. 

Bigboyz Toys and Track (eBay store) has the 6" curves, used, for $1.79 each plus postage. You might want to wander through the store and see what else you could use, as long as you're going to pay the postage. It's a great store; I've dealt with them before and been more than satisfied.
-- D


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## Xence (Oct 2, 2007)

Thanks for the info Dslot. How do I get a hold of Grandcheapskate so I might be able to purchase what I need for one of those builds?

Once I put this track down I want it to be on there for a year and then maybe later I'll change it out. I used the stock Shelby Daytona Coupe setup for a year. I'm beyond bored with that now hence the desire to change it around.

Cheers,
Xence


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## Dslot (Sep 2, 2007)

Xence said:


> How do I get a hold of Grandcheapskate so I might be able to purchase what I need...


Click on his name in my previous post. It will go to his member page and you have a link to email him there.
-- D


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## Dslot (Sep 2, 2007)

jkstewart1 said:


> D-slot, that's a fantastic use of the space! I was trying to dream up a good, challenging layout to put together for my oldest son (11) for Christmas. You've put together a track better than what I would have ever come up with myself! Beautiful and excellent work!


Thank you for the kind words, JK. Glad I could give you something to help you get your son interested in the hobby. 

-- D


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## Dslot (Sep 2, 2007)

zanza said:


> YEAAHHH ! A Mac user, finally I feel less alone !!
> I've started with a II Cx, back in those days when Photoshop (2.1) was without layers, history and all that stuff LOL


Mac II Cx! Photoshop 2.1! Why, you youngsters had it easy! Lissen 'ere, when I was starting out, we had to get to work 20 minutes early to shovel coal into the boiler of the old Lisa/Mac XL conversion so it would be generating enough steam to be ready to do any work by the time the whistle blew. Mac II Cx, indeed!  

Seriously, when I saw the Zanzaman website, I thought "this man has graphics experience." Apparently I was right.



zanza said:


> Of course it's prettier, it's made on Mac


 Well, I have to admit, for the several years that my employer forced the graphics department to use PCs, after we quit whining and grumbling, we found we could do very nice work on them also. But you'll notice I returned to the Mac for my personal/professional machine.



zanza said:


> ... a program automatizing track construction on OSX, it's called RailModeller 2.3.4 ...


 I had no idea. Thank you for the information. Now that I'm used to using my system, I doubt I'll change over, but it should be fun to investigate, especially since it has 3-D viewing.

-- D


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## vaBcHRog (Feb 19, 2003)

Grandcheapskate said:


> As far as portablility, consider using folding banquet table legs under the track. These can be found at Home Depot, Lowe's, etc. Just the right height too.
> 
> Joe


I used them on several tracks I have built in the past but came to dislike them in the end. They never worked well with hollow core door tack I built and I had to add woodebn support on bottom to screw them down too the door just wouldn't hold up. I have come to really like the Plastic Saw horses, light and easy to set up and place the track on. My saw horses are now only used when I take the track somewhere. I now have both my tracks on top of old bedroom dressers. Lots of extra storage space under the track now. The 3rd track is in the attic and the 4th is in Maine while I try and figure a cheap way to have it shipped here. Would you believe the quote I have for it is $1300 to ship it to the beach


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## tjd241 (Jan 25, 2004)

*Not all cars like the 3"hairpin...*

Just wanted to warn you that not all cars run through the Tomy Hairpin. I run only tjets and have no problems, *but* I have also tried X-Tracs, and some others and they do not make it through. Before you commit to using one make sure *IT* will work for you. Maybe buy one before spending on the additional pieces to test it with your cars. I do like them because they help you maximize track length in a small space and they DO make you drive through them (you can't just nail it through these). I have space issues too. Here is what's left out of the layout before my current layout. It sits now at 30x60 and was 30x80. nd


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## Xence (Oct 2, 2007)

TJD, question for you on that. When you put your track down did you nail it down first and THEN put your grass down around the track? I put the grass down first and then put the track on top of the track the first time. This time around I'm thinking about yanking that fake grass up, putting the track down and then cutting around the track for the grass. 

I only plan on using 1 hairpin. Looks like you had 4, wow is all I can say to that. I understand what you're saying about cars not liking them as that track tightens up around that bend so getting 2 cars side by side in that corner looks to be a bad idea for anyone involved. This is why I would probably never put my real rare or expensive cars into a race vs. someone else. Too much of a chance to turn a real nice car into parts. No thanks, I have no desire to play that game. Great info though.

Cheers,
Xence


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## Dslot (Sep 2, 2007)

tjd241 said:


> Just wanted to warn you that not all cars run through the Tomy Hairpin. I run only tjets and have no problems, *but* I have also tried X-Tracs, and some others and they do not make it through. Before you commit to using one make sure *IT* will work for you.


Very valuable info, indeed. I just bought the hairpin, but haven't tried it in a layout yet - I used the 4x4 table as an exercise to see what could be done with it, track-planning-wise. I hope Xence is still reading this thread.

Could you tell what exactly was hanging up the X-traction cars? I wonder if the old AFXs would have the same problem, since the X-tracs are repros of them. Did they hang up when using the pin guides, or was it just with the blade guides?

Love the look of your old course, by the way. Must have been fun to drive with Tjets. Maybe a little confusing to marshal, though.
--D


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## Xence (Oct 2, 2007)

Actually yeah D-Slot I'm definitely keeping tabs on this post. I can't really afford not to. What TJD was saying is useful info. I as well would like to know what the problem is with the hairpin's as I have ALOT of the old AFX & the new XT's. If there's a problem with them then I need to know before I put this all together.


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## TK Solver (Mar 18, 2004)

Even the 6" radius turns cause problems with many cars on tracks running wall wart voltage. I'm a big fan of the X-Tractions and they don't like 6" radius turns so I've eliminated them from my layout completely. I also noticed problems running some LifeLike cars through 6" turns. I can't imagine trying to include a 3" radius hairpin. But different strokes for different folks...


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## Xence (Oct 2, 2007)

ok but what's the problem with those tracks TK? Does the voltage not go all the way through? Are there too many contact points between tracks? What's the deal here?


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## dlw (Aug 17, 1999)

The thing with the hairpins is that the rails go a little off center going around the plastic island in the middle of that piece. The Aurora Afx and JL Xtractions have the thin ski shoes and they lose contact when going around the island, but with the wider shoes, they may make it around. If anyone is using hairpins on their track, could you let us know if AWXT's can make it? Tjets seeme to get around them ok......its a matter of driving slow enough to avoid rolling over.


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## Xence (Oct 2, 2007)

hmmmmm.... good point dlw. I'll have to start looking around and see how many of the real wide shoes I have laying around so I can test this out. I think I might try this out over the weekend. I'm dying to try out a couple of the layouts that D-Slot had posted back in the second page of this post. 

DLW, where in pittsburgh are you? I used to live in Mccandless township over by that 2 year college, sort off of McKnight Rd.


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## TK Solver (Mar 18, 2004)

dlw said it well. I guess I'd add that cars with better "coastability" handle tight turns better than "torquier" cars that force you to stay in the throttle more. The tight turns are just too challenging for me, even with higher ohm controllers.


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## tjd241 (Jan 25, 2004)

*Both New and Old got stuck!!!*

My impression was that it was not the guidepins, or the wall wart voltage (my layout is tiny) it was the pick-ups. They are just not sized or spaced for the Tomy hairpin. Tomy pick-ups are more of a short square somewhat wide design and the xtrac/afxes are more slim and long. The hairpin is made for the Tomy cars. Not sure if it was the inside or the outside lane, but one lane got stuck on almost every lap ( a serious bummer ). The other got stuck about half the time. Is there a pick-up shoe to replace the new ones on the AW cars and older AFX's?? I'm not sure. I swapped the shoes from an old afx with a new pair from the xtracs, without much difference. Somebody with more patience than me could figure this out (no doubt), but I gotta admit I found the whole thing very frustrating. Ask JoeZ... I sent him every last one I had picked up (afx & xtrac that is). Tjets, on the other hand... I find to be a blast on the hairpin. You don't even slow down as much after you get the feel of it. One of the coolest things I have seen on my track is two tjets trying to shove through at the same time. MEV D-Type Jags and Mini Coopers were my favorites. Funny thing though, tjets just happen to work. I'm sure Tomy didn't gave tjets a second thought when this piece was tooled. tjd


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## micyou03 (Apr 8, 2003)

Xence,

I have a hairpin you can try.


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## micyou03 (Apr 8, 2003)

I also have some hollow core doors if you can find some room for more length. I stocked up on them during fall clean up last year.


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## Dslot (Sep 2, 2007)

*AFXs on the Hairpin*



tjd241 said:


> My impression was that it was not the guidepins, or the wall wart voltage (my layout is tiny) it was the pick-ups. They are just not sized or spaced for the Tomy hairpin. Tomy pick-ups are more of a short square somewhat wide design and the xtrac/afxes are more slim and long.
> ...
> Tjets, on the other hand... I find to be a blast on the hairpin.


Since Tjet shoes are about as skinny as they get and the width and spacing on my old AFX shoes is the same as on Tjets, something else must be working here. After looking at the chassis on a Tjet and an old AF/X (don't have an X-trac close at hand), here's my theory:

The power rails on the Tomy hairpin are also shifted toward the outside of the curve, probably to keep contact when the cars are heavily fishtailed out. They are also closer together than on normal track, probably in order to keep cars on one slot from touching the rails for the other. 

Tjets have a pickup piece with a bend that puts about 8mm of metal in contact with the rail. AFX pickups angle down and contact the rail mostly at the tip, perhaps 1.5 mm of the shoe in contact with the rail. I'd guess Aurora did this to reduce sliding friction. 

When the car fishtails out on the Tomy hairpin, the little contact patch on the AFX moves off the power rail, while the Tjet still contacts the rail with the rear end of its longer shoe. 

So I made a scale drawing, and it seems to confirm the theory (see below). (The chassis shapes are not shown, just a box to show the outer size limits and the slots have been moved apart to keep the drawings from interfering with other. Everything else is to scale.)

This suggests that if we bend the AFX's pickup to a shape more like the Tjet's, to put more contact area on the rail, we can cure the problem. Hopefully we won't cause any other problems in doing so.

My track is all packed away, but somebody else may be able to test this fix.

It's possible (not certain) that wider replacement shoes on the AFX might be able to compensate for the spacing problems and let them work. Does anybody make wider pickups for AFX/X-tracs?

A less attractive fix might be to solder an 8mm piece of phosphor bronze or nickel silver sheet, or piece of desoldering braid, like the drag strip guys do (I'm told), on the bottom of the shoe. But who wants to put that much fiddly effort into every car just to accomodate one piece of track?
-- D


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

Dslot said:


> So I made a scale drawing, and it seems to confirm the theory (see below).
> -- D


 That is a great example you show.

I wonder however about original Aurora AFX. There were three types of pickup shoes available on the AFX cars. There was the ski shoe (no step), the short step shoe, and the long step shoe. Is the contact patch the same on all three types of shoes, or would one type be better than another?

Joe


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## Dslot (Sep 2, 2007)

Grandcheapskate said:


> There were three types of pickup shoes available on the AFX cars. There was the ski shoe (no step), the short step shoe, and the long step shoe. Is the contact patch the same on all three types of shoes, or would one type be better than another?


Well, not being much of an AFX guy, I'm not sure. I've got just a few of them, and looking at them I find most are non-mag types with a 10 mm step (the one I measured for the drawing was one of these). Most of these have wear just close to the tip. Two of the step styles have wear all the way down the steps. So maybe somebody already bent them for the extra contact area. Looking at the pickup from the side, one does seem to change angle slightly at the step, whereas the others keep the same line after the step. 

There are a couple of the magnet chassis with ski type pickups. The ski types are hard to tell about. On the very low magnet chassis, one seems to contact almost all the way down the shoe to the spring-retainer dimple, another just for about 2 to 3 mm at the tip, but that one has aftermarket silicone rear tires, so maybe a bigger tire size. My guess is that if they were mounted on the higher non-mag chassis, they'd contact only at the tip.

It's all getting too complicated. We probably need an AFX expert. Tjets are simpler. 

-- D


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## Xence (Oct 2, 2007)

micyou3,

What size are the doors? I was talking to the wife and doing a bigger size may be possible. I kinda need some dimensions, if possible though. 

I picked up a hairpin but have yet to test it out. Local place here had those pretty cheap. I think I paid $10 for it, and then I got 2 6" corners for $2/piece. This was all used but as far as I'm concerned as long as it's not broken I'm not really all that worried about it.


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## dlw (Aug 17, 1999)

Just tried running cars through a hairpin and as stated, tjets and tough-ones (Aurora or JL/AW) just buzz through with no problems. MT/XT's are a different story........The wide-shoed cars also make it through ok, but the flat ski shoes stall out. But putting a step similiar size to the tjets (around 40%) of the length, or making a bend in the shoe, will give the contact patch needed to get around a Tomy hairpin. The hairpin will test your shoe-treaking skills.

BTW.......Xence, I'm not too far from the stadiums.


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## micyou03 (Apr 8, 2003)

I have two that are 24x84 and one that is, I think is 28 or 30 x 84. I could measure it tomorrow maybe.


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## micyou03 (Apr 8, 2003)

Here's a link to the evolution of my HO track.

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=156301

This post never shows it as it is now, but you can get the idea.


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## Xence (Oct 2, 2007)

hmmmm 2.5'x7' or 2'x7' ok just gotta ask the wife and see what she thinks. Either way that will give me one or two long straights that everyone talks about, which I'm cool with. I kinda wanna try this hairpin though now that I've got it. What dlw & others are saying about the contact points totally makes sense though. I'm sure with enough fiddling around I could get the original shoes bent to the correct length you would need for a hairpin like this.

I've stated this before but using a hairpin really would force people, myself included, to drive and not slam through the turns as most people are wont to do.


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## Xence (Oct 2, 2007)

I ripped most of this from the other forum here that I posted to but anyone following this understands what's going on here. Thanks for reading.

I'm trying to follow the ideas that dlw gave for 4'x4' tracks now but am coming up short in the real tight 6" curves section. I need these plus several other pieces to be able to put one of these masterpieces together. I'd be interested in just purchasing these flat out. Used, new... whatever. I'm not looking to break the bank building this. I'm kinda stuck on this size though. I've looked at possibly going to a different length and width but I just don't have the space. Please let me know via this post and hopefully we can work something out. 

I'm more in need of some of the oddball curves more than anything else. I believe I have all of the straights I need.

Cheers,
Xence


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## Dslot (Sep 2, 2007)

Xence said:


> ...am coming up short in the real tight 6" curves section. I need these plus several other pieces to be able to put one of these masterpieces together.


 I just checked. Bigboyz Toys and Track (just click on this link, then click on the track section you want) is still listing 20 of the 6" curves at $1.79, _Buy It Now_ price. He also has 12"R and 9"R 1/8 pieces.
-- D


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## Crimnick (May 28, 2006)

I have a bunch of extra 6" radius curves...how many do you need?

You have have some for postage...


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## Xence (Oct 2, 2007)

Believe it or not I need like 16. That's actually not a joke. To build the track that was shown on the first page I need that many and I need a bunch of other odd tracks that don't come in a normal set. Let me know. I would gladly cover postage for those. 

Thanks,
Xence


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## Crimnick (May 28, 2006)

I dont think that will be a problem...in my quest for track I've bought two internationals, a fuji 4 laner import, two big D's, and assorted carded track locally...

I probably have 50 or 60 of em'

PM me your address and I'll try to get them out by the weekend or first of next week..


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## Xence (Oct 2, 2007)

OH MY WORD!!! THANK YOU Crimnick!!! 

I'll pm you after I get out of work because the box (computer) I'm on currently doesn't have flash installed and the local policies they have on here I can't override, not at least without some major monkeying with the box.

Do you have any other of the oddball tracks that you'd be willing to part with? I was starting to go through last night to determine exactly what I needed to complete this masterpiece and I'm definitely going to be way short on most of the oddball stuff. Like the 6" straights, 15" (I'm not sure exactly what these things are called) curves but they're like not the same curve as a regular 9", the radii is bigger. As I said, not real sure what to call those curves, anyways those are the beginnings of some of the other stuff I need. 

One thing I'm really trying to avoid on a track like this, and I have 3 cats and a dog as well that really loves the cars  so I'm sure most of you can relate, is I'm trying to avoid running any of the under/overpasses so this will be easily manageable when I'm moving it around. The cats have a tendency to knock the overpass tracks clean off. Figure that one out ..... hehe

Thanks again,
Xence


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## TK Solver (Mar 18, 2004)

Assuming Tomy track is 1/64th scale, a 3" radius hairpin equates to a 32-foot diameter turn in 1:1. If you assume true HO scale, the diameter is 21.75 feet. Any road race enthusiasts out there happen to know how tight the hairpins are on some of the real 1:1 tracks? The turning diameter of a Mini Cooper is 35 feet. Hairpins are brutal. Add in the ferocious cats and that track is sure to make the 10 most feared in the nation! 

I'm interested in hearing your lap times on that track when you get it completed.


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## Xence (Oct 2, 2007)

lap times? hahahahaha I'm hoping that I can make it around, never mind actually competing, in one day. Just kidding of course. Yeah I'll have to do my best to get this together quick, fast, and in a hurry. I'm really excited that Crimnick has offered up these sections of track. I can't wait to get all the parts together so I can build this. 

Now concerning laptimes is there a piece of software or something that everyone uses to check laptimes or is it literally just someone sitting there with a stopwatch? I know I've heard of various people using some sort of track timer or something but I'm a total noob concerning actually building tracks and whatnot. I can't imagine someone sitting there with a stopwatch BUT again I really don't know. As you guys can see from my posts I've only been on this forum for a month or so. Took me awhile to even find this board because I didn't know what I was looking for but I digress. Back to the topic at hand.

For all those following this, I am going to do my best to follow track 2, I think it is, that dlw posted on the first page. That would be the track, once you open the thumbnail, in the upper right hand corner. Hence the necessity for all of the 6" hairpins. I am going to be in need of several of the oddball tracks though. The short 3" & 6" straights, 18" long curves and several others. As stated previously I've just begun to figure out what I need to complete this vs. what I already have in my box of tracks at the house. 

Cheers,
Xence


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## Crimnick (May 28, 2006)

Ok...got your track sent out this morning....should be there in a couple days...


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## micyou03 (Apr 8, 2003)

Here's what I did with two 24" X something like 80" doors hinged together.


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## gonegonzo (Jan 18, 2006)

Although dated , this was an excellent post . Is anyone still doing "mini tracks" ?

Mini's ahve always intriqued me . 

I remember one time seeing a mini track set up in an old antique suitcase . I want to say it had an old time dirt track theme to it . If anyone else has evr seen it , please give me the link .

Thx ,
Gonzo


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## tjd241 (Jan 25, 2004)

Might be Bob Hardin's track-in-a-box??....

Bob is the artist who does Slot Car Thrillustrations www.slotcarthrillart.com (love his art and the track he built)

The track is over in HO Whirled's photo section and you need an ID and PW. If you have one or get one it's here... 

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/howorld/photos/album/1911609258/pic/list


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## gonegonzo (Jan 18, 2006)

Yesssssssssssssss , that's the one !

Thx 
Gonzo


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## tjd241 (Jan 25, 2004)

*At some point...*

... I'll be old, grey, and (even more) feeble... and I'll need to scale down. I would hope that when that point is reached I'll be able to have the desire to run cars from time to time... and this type of track-in-a-box is exactly what could make that possible. Self enclosed, maybe a drawer in it for controllers and a minimal amount of goodies... Cars shoed with crispy tires slip'n and slide'n... just good old fashioned fun. No fuss no mess.... just plug 'n play. :dude:


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## gonegonzo (Jan 18, 2006)

I think we all come to a point where the divercity and nostalghia content outweighs the competitive edge .

The track in a box is'nt racing nor is it a slotcar track . It's a work of art . A functional deorama .

Hmmmmmmmmm , now , how to make some of these that would have the option of hooking up as moduals thru side doors in the box and a couple spare stright sections of track .

I spent too much time in the wood shop today .

Gonzo


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