# Endbell Question



## Dave G. (May 26, 2009)

I was checking out some replacement parts on the BSRT site, and saw several options for tweaked endbells. There were several available with what was called "Twisted Brush" endbell.

Excuse my ignorance, but what does "Twisted Brush" mean? 

And is there actually any added benefit?


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## slotking (May 27, 2008)

if you look at the standard endbell, the brushes are shaped so that groove is horizontal with com (groove edges sit on the com) and takes more time to break in compared to the twisted endbell .

the twisted endbell has the groove parallel (groove sits on the com)
it also provides more surface contact over the length of the com.


I think

been a while


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

Basically what Mikes saying is the brush is turned a 1/4 turn from normal in the brush holder.

It gives you more surface area on the com,and yes they do work:thumbsup:

Sometimes you need an interpreter for Mike,just kidding Mike,LOL:wave::wave:
Rick


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## slotking (May 27, 2008)

I know what I am saying!
just that the rest of the world needs to catch up:dude::tongue:


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

Catch Up??,i was thinking we had to stop,lol:wave:


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## Dave G. (May 26, 2009)

OK...I think I understand what you both are getting at.

The "brushes" are the two little arms that that connect/rest on the commutator, right? And a "twisted brush" has them bent at an angle instead of more or less sitting horizontal, one on top and the other on the bottom of the commutator? 

Does that sound right?


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

Not quite.

If you look inside the endbell,you'll see where the little stub of a brush sits on the ends of the arms.
The brush is actually turned right at the holder.
It leaves you with the inside rounded part of the brush sitting crosswise on the com,looks like it won't work,but that's where the 24 hr break-in period on 3 volts comes into play.
When the brush is clocked,it takes forever for it to break-in,you'll see guys reconmending 24 hours for break-in,that's the reason why,you have to gently re-shape the face of the brush.
If you're looking for long life out of your endbells stay away from the twisted versions,if you want all out speed,and life expectancy of the brushes isn't a concern,get the twisted versions.
You can also tweak the brush arms to,so that the brushes sit on the com flatter.:wave:
Rick


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## BudMan49099 (May 6, 2011)

Not quite Dave.

The metal "arms" are the flat springs. They are not changed(other than a slight tweak)

The square carbon brush attached to the end of the spring is rotated 90° to give it more contact area with the motor's comm.

It has been 'twisted' or rotated.


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## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

cut a pickup spring in half. insert one half on the back(top or bottom) side of the brush/flat copper spring assembly for much better performance. the pickup shoe spring(coiled) goes between the end bell housing and the back of the brush to give additional spring pressure to the brush against the commutator.
don't tell anyone i said to do this. it is a highly guarded secret and could cost me my membership in the highly guarded secret society.


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

Highly guarded,LOL:thumbsup:

My buddy Lyle had pictures showing how to do this mod,back on the Canuck BB close to 10 years ago,lol:thumbsup:
Just before that board went bust,i think there was over 4,000 hits on his pictures,so i don't think it's that highly guarded Al,lol

You'll want to have lots of endbells on hand though,as you'll go through brushes fast.

I'll see if i can drag him out,and see if he'll tell how he used to do the helper springs,for some reason i think he was using T-jet pick-up springs,but don't quote me on that one .
Rick


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## Dave G. (May 26, 2009)

So the brushes are the two tiny tabs that rests or rides on the top and bottom of the commutator?


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## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

hornet, shhhhh, I use 2/3rds of a G+ shoe on each brush. but, I only drag race, so I haven't yet worn out a pair of brushes. I have blown up quite a few entire cars though. spectacular to see. much money going BOOM!


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## Boosted-Z71 (Nov 26, 2007)

Hornet said:


> i think he was using T-jet pick-up springs,but don't quote me on that one .
> Rick


SO you do know what a T-jet is! ha ha

Boosted


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

LMAO,Bazinga you got me,morning Jeff:wave::wave:

Al,we did alot of oddball s'perimenting in those days.

I even went so far as to put Bob's small barrels into a G's endbell,but not the way most guys did.
I utilized the stock brushes and arms,and used the screw adjuster inside the small Wizz barrels to push on the brush arms themselves,and actually externally adjust the brush pressure on the com.
The idea needed more work,but it showed potential.
It killed brushes mighty fast ,ask Mike,i gave him a couple to try out,but man you could crank horsepower into a G using them.
I was always gonna look into putting a captured spring on the end of the set screw,just never got around to it
I figured i could adapt my old shunt pin idea into the end of the adjuster screw,but by the time i was doing this,i was also switching over to running Wizz products,so the G development fell by the side of the road,and that's where it's been for more then 10 years,lol
Rick


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

Sorry Dave,slow on the uptake this morning:drunk:
But yup you got it right


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## Dave G. (May 26, 2009)

Thanks for the info and tips everybody. I still get a little confused on some of the terminology, and I appreciate the help!


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## slotking (May 27, 2008)

> It killed brushes mighty fast ,ask Mike,i gave him a couple to try out,but man you could crank horsepower into a G using them


it was dangerous!!!!!!
i used to have 12 kids, now I am down to 6.

But yes, the t-jet springs work great as helper springs
back in the day some people tried to call them shunts! WTF
but they needed to read a dictionary or lean electricity!


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

If you open the other eye,i bet your back up to 12,lol:wave:


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

Al,you weren't around back when the Canuck BB was operational,so here's some pic's for you.
These should give you a laugh 
This was the first one i built,and it's the only one i have left,it needs a rebuild as you can tell,but you can see where the adjuster screw pushes on the brush arm.

Rick














































Photo's by Todd's Camera Shop,lol
Thanks Todd


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

Al:here's another endbell trick you can try to,it's another one of my buddies Lyle's old tricks.
Use the flat end part of a toothpick and jam it under the brush arm towards it's base where it pivots.
He used to use a little dab of Black Max to hold it in place.
Lyle's even cheaper then me,and he had some really in-expensive things he used to do to the old G's endbell,lol.
Basically his toothpick mod shortens up the brush arms lever,and a shorter lever applies more pressure to the brush.
Not only that everybody usually has toothpicks laying around:thumbsup:
Rick


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## cwbam (Feb 8, 2010)

*Find a use ?*

from an ebay auction, I kept them around,
All used, anybody want them?
send a pm


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## Boosted-Z71 (Nov 26, 2007)

PMsent

Boosted


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

Jeff i think Wizzard might still sell replacement brush arms for the G's endbell if you're looking for just the brush arms.
Fire a note off to Cheryl at Wizzard and she'll tell you if they still sell them

You're crafty enough you've probably have already stumbled into this trick for old shoes,but in case you haven't
Don't throw your old mag car pick-up shoes out when they're wore out.
They make a cheap axle retainer.
Cut the window off the end of the pick-up shoe so that it's a "U" shape,then invert the "U" so that the solid bar of the "U" sits under the axle,and the legs of the "U" go up and over the chassis walls above the axle,then bend the legs of the "U" over the top of the chassis.
Voila you have a cheap homemade axle retainer that doesn't involve any chassis drilling/modifying.:thumbsup:
Rick


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

Hornet said:


> Jeff i think Wizzard might still sell replacement brush arms for the G's endbell if you're looking for just the brush arms.
> Fire a note off to Cheryl at Wizzard and she'll tell you if they still sell them
> 
> You're crafty enough you've probably have already stumbled into this trick for old shoes,but in case you haven't
> ...


No pictures?

After all the money we've spent on crayons!


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

LOL,that's an old old trick from years ago Bill.
I'll make a pair up and see if i can get my camera guy to take some pic's,lol
Hey Todd,lol
Todd hows your schedule look tomorrow,any open classes in the morning:thumbsup:
Rick


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## Boosted-Z71 (Nov 26, 2007)

Well for the local kids we actually use just about any shoe we can find and totally wear it out, some of the kids dont have much parental support, so we do the best we can to help them, I have done many braid cover ups of worn out shoes, They don't handle as good but for the kids they do just fine, and several have learned to tweak the braids in an attempt for better handling. its all about the fun they can have, The Dad's that do show up to race as well have a ton of fun, no one is too serious, we try to keep it fair for all with the community cars. The 10 JL T-jets I built are proving to be the best racing so far. It makes more emphasis on driver skill.

Hornet get Todd to take some pics of the axle retainers, that sounds like a good tip

Boosted


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## tossedman (Mar 19, 2006)

Hornet said:


> LOL,that's an old old trick from years ago Bill.
> I'll make a pair up and see if i can get my camera guy to take some pic's,lol
> Hey Todd,lol
> Todd hows your schedule look tomorrow,any open classes in the morning:thumbsup:
> Rick


Rick, I'm good from 11:00 to 12:00 if that works for you.

Todd


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

Yup,that works for me Todd,see you then:thumbsup:.

Have you ever tried building them back up with solder Jeff,we used to do that lots.
One pair of shoes would last almost forever,just keep adding or re-melting the solder when they get grooved,lol.
One guy used to build up his new shoes,just so he never wore through the copper,the best part was he used to do it with my solder,lol

Rick


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## Boosted-Z71 (Nov 26, 2007)

Hornet said:


> the best part was he used to do it with my solder,lol
> Rick


Now that is Funny!

Thanks we will give the solder a try as well, Rick you dont have any laying around do ya? Ha HA :wave:

Boosted


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## cwbam (Feb 8, 2010)

Boosted-Z71 said:


> PMsent
> 
> Boosted


keep an eye in your mail.


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

LOL,no problem Jeff,how much you need

The same guy,was part vampire i swear.
He'd come out at midnight and want to run cars,i used to go to bed,and tell him to turn the lights out when he left:wave:
Couple times he'd still be here in the morninbg crashed on my couch

My place used to be where we did all the testing and tuning of cars,so i was always supplying the supplies.
Lyle supplied parts,and i supplied the rest,lol
Rick


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## Boosted-Z71 (Nov 26, 2007)

That is a deal, free parts, supplies, track time, and room & board, I am never lucky enough to find a deal like that. Ha Ha 

CW, Thanks for the parts, much appreciated

Boosted


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

LOL,i'll trade you for the machine shop finds you have down in your area:thumbsup:

It's all part of the hobby in my opinion.
This hobby needs lots of leeways,and favours between guys to survive,lol
Rick


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