# best 12th onroad body



## Porksalot4L (Nov 4, 2002)

hey everyone im new to onroad. just picking up a 12th onroad car and would like to know whats the best body to buy. thanks!

joe ivo


----------



## CypressMidWest (Apr 30, 2002)

Porksalot4L said:


> hey everyone im new to onroad. just picking up a 12th onroad car and would like to know whats the best body to buy. thanks!
> 
> joe ivo


 If you'll be running stock, the best bet is a PARMA Speed 8, in Mod some people use the Protoform Speed 12, but many still use the Parma Speed 8.


----------



## davepull (Aug 6, 2002)

what he said. the Parma speed 8 is my favorite


----------



## Porksalot4L (Nov 4, 2002)

why would it be the speed 12 for the mod but not stock?


----------



## davepull (Aug 6, 2002)

speed 12 creates more downforce


----------



## beerbarron (Nov 14, 2005)

I just got a 12l4 for Xmas. What should I use as far as electronics go to finish it off? I'll need a steering servo (fast one), speed control, body, tires. Any other odds and ends that a 12l can use right out of the box? Are there any bodies that look like a real car and not like a giant slot car? The CEFX body looks neat. Merry Christamas all.


----------



## CypressMidWest (Apr 30, 2002)

beerbarron said:


> I just got a 12l4 for Xmas. What should I use as far as electronics go to finish it off? I'll need a steering servo (fast one), speed control, body, tires. Any other odds and ends that a 12l can use right out of the box? Are there any bodies that look like a real car and not like a giant slot car? The CEFX body looks neat. Merry Christamas all.


 Servo: KO 949, or JR 3650 or 3550. ESC: Novak GTX, KO VFS1 or HAra Twister, LRP Quantum. Tires: Parma Purple Fronts and Grey rears. Bodies: Do you want it to look real or do you want it to work? Go with a Parma Speed 8 if you want the car to work. The only thing you really need to add outta the box is a set of threaded front axles to replace the stupid e-clip axles the car comes with. Parma, Lunsford , and CRC all make excellent examples.


----------



## RTolle (Dec 19, 2002)

Go brushless. A sphere and whatever motor you choose. Novak or LRP


----------



## CypressMidWest (Apr 30, 2002)

RTolle said:


> Go brushless. A sphere and whatever motor you choose. Novak or LRP


 That works if you're going to run MOD exclusively, if not the extra weight of the brushless speedo and its' extra wires isn't worth carrying, and in most instances brushed motors are still faster anyway.


----------



## RTolle (Dec 19, 2002)

Cypress, I'll have to disagree. The added weight is minimal at best from the larger speedo. You don't have to run all the wires back to a standard motor. And in most cases a brushless car will be allowed in stock, 19t and mod depending on if you run a 4300, 5800 or something hotter. Also having run stock with the sphere I can honestly say it runs no different than a QC2. Besides, in another year brushless WILL outnumber brushed cars. And by the way you will NEVER have to work on a motor again. That means no need for an expensive lathe, multiple motors, dyno's, etc....


----------



## Eric_O (Jan 14, 2005)

RTolle said:


> Cypress, I'll have to disagree. The added weight is minimal at best from the larger speedo. You don't have to run all the wires back to a standard motor. And in most cases a brushless car will be allowed in stock, 19t and mod depending on if you run a 4300, 5800 or something hotter. Also having run stock with the sphere I can honestly say it runs no different than a QC2. Besides, in another year brushless WILL outnumber brushed cars. *And by the way you will NEVER have to work on a motor again. That means no need for an expensive lathe, multiple motors, dyno's, etc....*


Gee, can't wait till robots start to drive the cars for us......Motor work is half the fun! :thumbsup:


----------



## RTolle (Dec 19, 2002)

Everyone that I've seen try brushless won't go back. Even the guys that said they enjoy motor work.


----------



## beerbarron (Nov 14, 2005)

I am not going to go brushless with the 12L. On my 1/10, now that's a different story.  I'll be running stock or 19t in 1/12 and motor wear is just not that great with four cells. Mod touring (if I ever get that far) will be brushless fo' shore.


----------



## CypressMidWest (Apr 30, 2002)

RTolle said:


> Everyone that I've seen try brushless won't go back. Even the guys that said they enjoy motor work.


 When it's actually used successfully at the Indoor Champs, 'Birds, Worlds, etc. and they make a speed control small enough to fit under a properly trimmed 12th scale body, I may consider it. Unfortunately when I go to a big race and see all the LRP and Novak guys running GTX's, Quantums, and brushed motors, it doesn't really make me believe in the almighty power of brushless. Big wide open asphalt track, sure. Tight carpet track, no way in hell. Plus, I'm relatively sure that the stock and 19turn rules still prohibit the use of brushless systems. Perhaps some tracks will allow this but not all will. I know a bunch of people who have tried it, couldn't run as much rip without shutting down thermally, and went right back to brushed motors. The new Brushed technology is far better than it used to be, you get more runs outta the brushes, the magnets in the can last longer, and they have WAY more bottom end than the brushless stuff. Sorry, I can skim a comm, and the smaller electronics look SOOOOO much nicer in a 12th scaler.


----------



## beerbarron (Nov 14, 2005)

Size matters and in a 1/12 chassis smaller is better.


----------



## RTolle (Dec 19, 2002)

Brushless will not be allowed at either the birds or cleveland for one very simple reason. Trinity is the main sponsor. They don't want to be shown up with a technology that has made there products obsolete. Besides if I'm not mistaken Orr won the 12th nat's with brushless against the best brushed motors available.


----------



## CypressMidWest (Apr 30, 2002)

RTolle said:


> Brushless will not be allowed at either the birds or cleveland for one very simple reason. Trinity is the main sponsor. They don't want to be shown up with a technology that has made there products obsolete. Besides if I'm not mistaken Orr won the 12th nat's with brushless against the best brushed motors available.


 As far as I know, (and I generally get pretty good info) Brushless should be legal at the Champs next year. Not that anyone will run it on a track that tight and technical. 'Birds I don't know about, I don't have anything to do with that one.

As far as the Nats go, after speaking with those in attendance, the ONLY place Jon's car was fast was the straight. He and Dumas were pretty much in a dead heat until the last main in which Jon drove a perfect race, and Mike did not.

Now if you'd like further support for my side of the argument, how did the Brushless systems fare in TC at the Nats? Or even at the REEDY TC race? Oh yeah, they weren't in the mains. Sorry, I'll stick with the technology that's proven faster.


----------



## Porksalot4L (Nov 4, 2002)

ok i got a crc 3.2R and im curious about setting it up and rollout for stock. i have never raced onroad b4 so i know absolutly nothing about it. just basicly any info will be helpful. 

thanks!


----------



## Motor City Hamilton (Feb 5, 2002)

RTolle said:


> Besides, in another year brushless WILL outnumber brushed cars.


Hmmm... don't want to be too much of a nay sayer, but I'm just not seeing this in my area. We get two racers out of 80 who run brushless, both in mod. Both also run brushed in their 1/12th scale cars. That's pretty optomistic to say that brushless will rule the world in another year. I guess we'll all be driving the hybrid Prius to the track next year too. I don't think that car could carry the weight of all my race crap.

The two racing brushless do swear by it for touring mod. Far less motor work. As for stock, today's batteries are making it so that almost any motor will work fine with the right gearing.


----------



## RTolle (Dec 19, 2002)

I'm not saying that everyone will be running brushless. What I am saying is that the majority will be. My local track is about 50\50 now with more people joining in all the time. Brushless has also been suprisingly successful with the new guys; despite the higher initial cost. Not to mention that every week there are more people switching to the "darkside".

Cypress, I can run my 5800 motor with old 3300 bats against Doseck and be competitive. That is more than enough proof to me. We have guys with 300+ runs on a brushless system and have never taken the motor from the car for maintnence. I'd love to see that feat repeated w/ a standard motor. You must also remember that many of the top drivers are required to run certain equipment by a contract. I don't see drivers whom have motor sponsors switching any time soon. The loss of sales to motor manufacturers will be staggering and they don't want to see that.

I do have one last argument to make. Electric helis and planes are where the technology really took-off and has since filtered it's way to cars w/modifications. I have been told that in general the sales for nitro powered equipment dropped by about 40% where as electric rose by nearly 400%. This shift is due to 2 major improvments. Brushless motors and lithium batteries. I believe that the car market WILL follow the aircraft market although it will be a slower transition. Especially where the batteries are concerned.

Parksalot- try about a 1.65 rollout. That should get you in the ballpark.


----------



## CypressMidWest (Apr 30, 2002)

RTolle said:


> I'm not saying that everyone will be running brushless. What I am saying is that the majority will be. My local track is about 50\50 now with more people joining in all the time. Brushless has also been suprisingly successful with the new guys; despite the higher initial cost. Not to mention that every week there are more people switching to the "darkside".
> 
> Cypress, I can run my 5800 motor with old 3300 bats against Doseck and be competitive. That is more than enough proof to me. We have guys with 300+ runs on a brushless system and have never taken the motor from the car for maintnence. I'd love to see that feat repeated w/ a standard motor. You must also remember that many of the top drivers are required to run certain equipment by a contract. I don't see drivers whom have motor sponsors switching any time soon. The loss of sales to motor manufacturers will be staggering and they don't want to see that.
> 
> ...


 You can be competitive with Doseck on a track with a very "open" layout and absolutely ZERO traction. Go to the Gate and see if you're running with Blackstock and Ciccarello running a 5800. Do you honestly believe Doseck brings his "A" game to you every Sunday? You're racing, Chris is testing. Not a fair comparison. 

Pulfer finished second at the new years day race in 19t TC running an actual 19t motor against the almighty brushless guys. Kinda makes that "brushless far faster than brushed argument" seem a little less one-sided doesn't it. The competitive guys were just that, competitive regardless of what they ran. Mikey had enough rip to stay out in front of some pretty great drivers, and the 19t he ran is arguably the worst of the current available 19ts. Take the Ultrabird out strap in a Quad Mag, and Mikey woulda had a bit more pull.


----------



## Porksalot4L (Nov 4, 2002)

cream rises to the top no matter what is run


----------



## RTolle (Dec 19, 2002)

Time for a closing argument.

Your right. Chris doesn't bring everything he's got for me. But he does agree that the brushless setup is the way to go for 12th. And yes TWOH is fairly open. But the brushless setup comes out of the hole harder than anything else. I can say that b/c I've run both types of systems. Have you? I don't think you've stopped by the track since it's been subfloored. The bite may surprise you.

As for the system being big and bulky. Please take a look at the pictures on Mike Lufaso's site. http://home.sc.rr.com/mlufaso/rc/12l4/index.html It doesn't appear to be a cumbersome setup in his car. Nor does it look bad in mine or anyone elses I've seen once properly wired.

One last question. What does TC have anything to do with 12th? It's a completely different type of race. A good TC motor doesn't translate well into 12th and vice versa.

Ian, lets stop this stupid argument. We're just bickering and getting nowhere. This is my last post regarding the subject. I stand by my opinion that brushless is just plain and simple more fun. After all at the end of the day it's not all about winning, it's about having a good time.


----------



## CypressMidWest (Apr 30, 2002)

Been there raced that. I will stop the whole brushless/brushed argument because it is in fact, pointless. But I have been to the track since the subflooring went down, and found that there was very little bite. A lack of decent traction compound will cause this, and I'm not the only one who says this. Oh well, it makes little difference. I stand by my answers, and I still won't run any club program where Paragon is not allowed. I see no point in changing my entire car to run at one race track, then have to change everything back when I get to a track with traction. I'd prefer to spend my time cutting and re-brushing my inferior motors.


----------



## CypressMidWest (Apr 30, 2002)

RTolle said:


> As for the system being big and bulky. Please take a look at the pictures on Mike Lufaso's site. http://home.sc.rr.com/mlufaso/rc/12l4/index.html It doesn't appear to be a cumbersome setup in his car. Nor does it look bad in mine or anyone elses I've seen once properly wired.


 http://www.teamspeedmerchant.com/rides/rides021.html

Just for reference, look at the link in the quote, and then this link, and see which wiring layout looks less cluttered and cumbersome.


----------



## RTolle (Dec 19, 2002)

So then where do you run that allows paragon? It seems that the closest track would be the Gate. And I've only seen your name in there results once this winter. Although I guess Halo and Fort Wayne allow it too. 

Personally, I'd much rather race than not.


----------



## CypressMidWest (Apr 30, 2002)

RTolle said:


> So then where do you run that allows paragon? It seems that the closest track would be the Gate. And I've only seen your name in there results once this winter. Although I guess Halo and Fort Wayne allow it too.
> 
> Personally, I'd much rather race than not.


 
True, I haven't run much this winter, but I'm not one who wants to run somewhere that doesn't prepare me for larger events. Once a month at a track that offers me the opportunity to test under conditions similar to a large event is more beneficial than every week at a track where I must set my vehicle up with a left-field set-up and try to extrapolate what to do from the less than ideal feedback I would receive. Don't get me wrong, WOH is a beautiful facility, and alot of great guys (yourself included) run there, it's just not of benefit to me personally. I only get to race occasionally, and I need to make those outings as productive as possible, therefore I require specific conditions not provided at WHO.


----------



## RTolle (Dec 19, 2002)

WHO, where's WHO? LOL


Are you going to the birds?


----------



## CypressMidWest (Apr 30, 2002)

RTolle said:


> WHO, where's WHO? LOL
> 
> 
> Are you going to the birds?


 OOOOPS, I usually don't let my spelling errors go like that!!! I may be going to the 'Birds, not 100% sure yet.


----------

