# My TOS shuttlecraft - Part 2....



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

The original thread for this subject was getting rather long and so I'm taking advice to start it again. Go here: http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=142783 to visit the original thread.

This project was undertaken to create a realistic vehicle that integrated the three disparate version of the TOS shuttlecraft seen onscreen: the fullsize exterior mockup, the fullsize interior set and the "flying" filming miniature. The goal was not to create an exhaustively faithful recreation of filming sets but a believeable "whole" ship.

This is where the project stands at present:



























What remains to be completed (already in progress) or done.

To be completed:
- deck and ceiling plans of Class F Shuttlecraft

To be done:
- fore and aft cross-section views of Class F
- port and starboard cross-section views of Class H
- fore and aft cross-sections of Class H
- deck and ceiling plans of Class H

Planned and conceptualized yet not started:
- Class D Shuttlecraft ("The Cage" era)
- TAS long range scoutship
- TAS heavy lander
- TAS aquashuttle
- TOS era utility pod
- TMP era shuttlecraft (including TFF shuttlecraft)

Note that the TAS and TMP era shuttlecraft will be undertaken as separate projects.

Furthermore I'm still on the fence as to whether I should bother doing plans for the TOS era hangar deck. The great work done by *aridas*, *Shaw*, *CRA* and others in regards to the deck layout of the TOS _E_ has shown that there is sufficient room to accommodate my planned shuttlecraft complement even if I may envision something a bit different in detail from their proposals.

A challenge with the TAS shuttlecraft is to adapt them decently. The TOS shuttlecraft is deceptive in that it's a more complex design than it looks. For me the trick is to make my TAS adapted designs also a bit more complex than their basic shapes suggest. And although I'm not seeing them as ship based craft I still resist allowing them to be as huge as they look onscreen. They've got to be scaled down enough to be accommodated within the ship's hangar.

I haven't lost interest in this project, but rather real life intervened. Also this project is pure hobby while my other two projects currently in the works as well could positively affect my livelihood in some measure.

Current projects:
- the Star Trek shuttlecraft
- writing my own original SF novel
- designing the starship and related tech featured in my novel


----------



## DaKra (Mar 21, 2008)

SHARP, mate, sharp!!!


----------



## darkwanderer (Mar 11, 2008)

Great. I'm glad to see this continuing. Keep it coming.


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

Warped9 said:


> A challenge with the TAS shuttlecraft is to adapt them decently. The TOS shuttlecraft is deceptive in that it's a more complex design than it looks. For me the trick is to make my TAS adapted designs also a bit more complex than their basic shapes suggest. And although I'm not seeing them as ship based craft I still resist allowing them to be as huge as they look onscreen. They've got to be scaled down enough to be accommodated within the ship's hangar.


Suffice to say that I likely won't be putting the same degree of effort into depicting the between hulls guts of the TAS and TMP era vehicles as I am with the TOS craft. It's a helluva lot of work to figure this sort of thing out for someone who is far removed from being an aerospace engineer, even if it's fictional aerospace tech.

As for the interior layout of my TOS Class H version of the _Copernicus_ I will use what we saw in TAS as a sort of loose guide. The aft cabin I envision as no different than the Class F's. But the main cabin will likely have three seats, two fold-out sleeping berths, an equipment locker and work table with computer terminal and cabinet (like we saw in TOS), or at least something along those lines. The idea to to convey that the Class H is as mission flexible as the Class F and can be equipped accordingly.


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

Some shuttlecraft inspired Photoshop images.


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

And some TAS thinking.



















As well as some Pike era ideas.


----------



## Jafo (Apr 22, 2005)

very cool!


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

Some more thinking ahead.


----------



## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Excellent shuttle craft designs! :thumbsup: You made the heavy shuttle a lot more believable.


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

The heavy lander is going to take a lot of thought. When you look at it you can see that the foward viewing port and the entrance/exit hatch do not line up right. It looks as if it's suggesting the craft has something of a split level interior with a cockpit/flight deck up top. Weird.










There's another thought to accommodate this. Most of the Class F's mechanical guts are in the aft end. Perhaps most of the heavy lander's mechanical guts are in the bottom of the craft. It's possible that the lander's cockpit is on an elevated platdorm and the rest of the main cabin is lset ower through the centre of the craft, something akin to what we saw with the _Proteus_ in _Fantastic Voyage._


----------



## uss_columbia (Jul 15, 2003)

Warped9 said:


>


Not only does the TMP shuttle not have warp engines, it doesn't even have impulse engines. It has only reaction control thrusters. It would not seem capable of landing on a planet much less taking off again. Mr. Probert has discussed this oversight (over on his probertdesigns site, if I remember right).
I agree it's best to take serious liberties with the design/scale. (Of course, this shuttle isn't canon anyway; it appeared in probert's concept art but not in the final mattes used on-screen.)


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

^^ Canon, shmannon. (-:

Probert's designs are interesting and there's nothing in TMP that says that those configurations don't exist. So no reason not to adapt them.

It's no different than me speculating on variants of the TOS Class F shuttlecraft. There's nothing there to say they don't exist as long as what I show doesn't outright contradict what is in TOS.

The TMP shuttlecraft as seen don't make sense for a deep space starship even with the notion of optional space warp nacelles to be fitted when needed. Even of you keep the idea of removable nacelles the craft should at least have impulse drive. The TMP craft as seen would be suitable only for orbital base facilities to planet surface and back and pretty well useless for anything else.

One could rationalize that the newly refit _E_ had not yet received her regular complement of new shuttlecraft since she was launched prematurely. The craft we did see might have been stardock or Starfleet HQ shuttlecraft temporarily parked in the refit _E's_ hangar.


----------



## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Got bigger images of the Class F blueprints?


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

John P said:


> Got bigger images of the Class F blueprints?


Yessir, I do.

But, uh, I ain't releasin' those until the set is done. 

Re: the TAS shuttlecraft.
I wasn't feeling well these past few days and last night I lay awke in bed unable to sleep and with little to do but think. Interesting how certain things can come to you when you're quiet and just let your mind wander.

I'm getting closer and closer in my mind with pretty much final configurations for my live-action versions of the TAS shuttlecraft. I'm starting to envision all those little subtleties in design that are not immediately apparent on first inspection, very much like the Class F design. I must reiterate that the aquashuttle is the one that will deviate most from the animated version while still retaining some general semblance to the original.

Re: the TMP era shuttlecraft.
The TMP shuttlecraft as seen onscreen remains pointless as a ship based vehicle in my mind. Rather I see myself meeting Probert halfway. The standard basic starship shuttlecraft comes standard with the impulse units in place (as seen in Probert's drawings) with the warpdrive units optional. That said I still see at least one warp equipped shuttlecraft being part of the standard complement.

I'm also starting to have seconds thoughts about TFF shuttlecraft design. It's nice enough, but it also seem something of a departure from the TOS and TMP designs in some respects. I hate that aft hatch and would just ignore it. Maybe I should just ignore the whole thing and stick with my focus on TOS and TMP era vehicles.

The Pike era design is also something I'm rather intrigued with because it's extrapolated from an early Matt Jefferies' sketch.


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

What isn't shown above, yet, is an idea I'm toying with regarding the landing struts that might look cool yet will also make the struts evoke the animated originals without looking as plain or throwaway. I envision the struts housing some manner of antigrav tech, in a somewhat different setup than the antigrav system in the Class F and H shuttlecraft.


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

^^ As this is being developed there are little running changes being made. I'm trying to adopt a windscreen/viewing port that is shaped a bit more like the animated one. I'm also trying to make the nacelles a little different than usual to look less conventional.

You know when you really look at how the TAS scoutship was drawn it only looks good at a glance. When you really start to study it its shape makes little sense, it's HUGELY oversized and it's very awkward looking. Actually that pretty much sums up all three TAS shuttlecraft. (-:

In all the candor I think the TAS shuttlecraft were drawn strictly to have something that looked different yet with little to no real thought put to it. If you try to translate them into something 3D and supposedly "real" you get wildly proportioned things that make no sense whatsoever. As such the only way to make them work to is try to acknowledge the TAS designs' basic concepts and then build something more credible from that.

The heavy lander has problems of its own as well. Scaled as seen onscreen the thing would be HUGE and quite possibly wouldn't even be able to enter the hangar deck let alone be stored there. The nose of the craft is way too bloody long and the lines and apparent contours make little sense at all. Hence, like the scoutship, I have to conjure a more credible "real" version that has enough elements to evoke the onscreen drawing.

Stay tuned.


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)




----------



## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

The far shots of the _Copernicus _seem to be "squashed" in proportions compared to the interior and close up shots:

http://home.earthlink.net/~startrek-tas/id6.html


Most shots of the heavy shuttle seem to show a "cut-off" nose. The front of the cowling is flat and flares back a little, top and bottom, from the centerline. 

That would certainly cut down on its size some.

For my interpretation, I made sure to incorporate the front of the _TOS_ shuttlecraft into the rear portion of the profile (which appears to be the case in most of the TAS shots) of the heavy shuttle to give its appearance a greater degree of utilitarianism and practicality.

http://home.earthlink.net/~startrek-tas/id1.html


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

Although I think the TAS designs are awkward I do go back and reconsider how they could be made to work. Sometimes it means rejecting long held assumptions and trying to envision them in a new way. It's a matter of seeing the shapes in a new way and understanding that these are simplistic drawings that may look one way yet are really trying to convey something else.

And in that light I'm reconsidering my take on the scoutship to the extent of modifying my design.

I'm already recconsidering the interior space in terms of being similar to what I did with the Class F and H shuttlecraft. But in regards to the TAS shuttlecraft it still won't make enough of a difference for them to be ship based vehicles. You can only shrink the interior just so much but you still have to consider the exterior shape of the vehicles

Try to imagine my version of the TAS scoutship with its nose chopped off and ripping off the nacelles. What's left would still be roughly equal in size to my Class H design at about 29ft. And that doesn't address the width of the craft either. And that's with a ceiling height similar to my TOS shuttlecraft. The heavy lander design is the same problem as will be the aquashuttle.

If the TAS episodes had been filmed live-action then they likely would have just used the already established Class F design. From that perspective it would be just easier to ignore the TAS designs as meaningless in a "real world" context. But I'm trying to rationalize the TAS designs in some way to justify their existence even though they still won't be exactly as we saw onscreen.

For the scoutship I'm even toying with an odd idea. On aircraft carriers since almost the beginning aircraft have had folding wings for storage. Consider: what if the scoutship's nacelles slide forward for temporary onboard berthing and then slide back into normal position for normal flight?

Adapting these designs will inevitably lead to something different from the TAS versions. All three designs will be somewhat smaller than what is suggested onscreen even though they won't be small enough to be ship based vehicles. The scoutship won't be as long and wide and flat looking as I'm thinking in terms of a space going Lear or Challenger jet type vehicle. I'm also working on nacelles that will be generally cylindrical but different in overall look than the standard type nacelles seen in TAS.

The heavy lander stikes me as something more utilitarian and being almost bug like in general appearance. I'm even thinking in terms of something of an aircraft like fuselage hull modified into something of the shape shown onscreen.

And the aquashuttle will be somewhat more aqua dynamic. The flat nose of the TAS version will be modified into an arrangement of lights for underwater external illumination. The nacelles on the side will be discarded entirely although the final shape will evoke the general shape of the original. I'm also thinking of intakes on the underside of the craft for water jet propulsion. For flight mode the craft will be powered by antigravs since this is strictly a surface-to-orbit vehicle.

I'm often sketching out my ideas whenever I have a free moment on scraps of paper, looking at the craft from different angles and at various parts until I get the shapes I'm aiming for.


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

For those who may be curious:









Of course, it's impossible to reconcile _everything_ speed related in _Star Trek,_ but my approach does make the references onscreen seemingly more consistent and credible within the context of the stories. One thing I had to throw away was the notion that Warp One was the speed of light. It may be fictional, but even in _Star Trek_ nothing was supposed to travel _at_ the speed of light. And it was also strange that the _Enterprise_ often left orbit only at Warp One if it actually was only the speed of light. My formula also acknowledges the reference to Warp .5 in _TMP._

This formula also makes the shuttlecraft viable spacecraft with reasonable range even with limited warp capability. It means a shuttlecraft can comfortable reach anything within 20-50 light years within a reasonable period of time.


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

*STAR TREK’S WARP DRIVE*
by Ray Lefebvre

The first references to warp flight in _Star Trek _ are in the original pilot episode “The Cage.” In it Captain Pike makes a reference to the proposed ship’s speed as “Our time-warp, factor seven.” This reference doesn’t tell us anything specific, however, it could have inferences. We don’t know if Time-Warp Factor 7 actually refers to the seven times the speed of light or not. But we can begin to draw implications when we consider other references.

Firstly when Spock calls up an image of the Talos star group on his monitor we are shown an image of the Pleides star cluster. This could be totally meaningless, or it could mean that the Pleides star cluster has since become known also as the Talos star group by the 23rd century. And if so then the Talos star group (a.k.a. the Pleides) is 410 light years from Earth. As such then even though we know the Enterprise is a faster-than-light starship, Time-Warp Factor 7 cannot mean only seven times the speed of light because then the Enterprise would have taken more than fifty-eight years to get there from Earth. And so TWF 7 must mean something else.

Additionally there are references to a Rigel 7 and the Vega colonies. If the references are to the same stars presently known as Rigel and Vega that are hundreds of light years away then that reinforces the implication the Enterprise can travel far faster than just a few times the speed of light.

Next there is a reference to an intercepted “old style” radio signal as originating from 18 light years away. Pike decides to investigate and orders the ship to TWF 7. Again TWF 7 cannot be only seven times the speed of light because then it would take more than two and a half years to get to Talos IV. Pike orders the course change with the assurance they can reach Talos within a reasonably short period of time. (And for the record at Warp Factor 7 on my scale they would reach Talos in under three hours, which is a very reasonable period of time). Note that according to the warp formula WF3 given in _The Making Of Star Trek_ the ship would take more than nineteen days to reach Talos at TWF 7.

The final reference to speed in “The Cage” is from Navigator Jose Tyler when he refers to getting back to Earth from Talos IV: “You won’t believe how fast you can get back. The time barrier has been broken. Our new ships can…” Again we’re not being told anything specific, but the inference is that since the _Columbia_ disappeared eighteen years earlier significant advances have been made in stardrive propulsion. The inference is that ships such as the _Enterprise_ are much faster than earlier ones from about two decades earlier. And the reference to a “time barrier” being broken could imply that Pike era ships are a lot faster than ones of the _Columbia’s_ era.


The next references to speed in _Star Trek_ are in the second pilot “Where No Man Has Gone Before.” The _Enterprise_ is said to be at the edge of the galaxy. The implication seems self evident, but in fairness it doesn’t actually specify whether the edge referred to is the galactic rim or the upper or lower planes of the galactic disc. If it’s the rim then the ship is 20,000 light years away, but even if it’s the planes then it’s still easily 1,500 light years away. In either case it’s rather clear the _Enterprise_ is capable of very fast FTL speeds and ones surpassing the oft accepted formula of WF3. Indeed after the ship’s main engines are disabled Captain Kirk makes a reference that Earth bases once only days away were now years in the distance.

That last reference needs to be examined because if actually without any FTL warp speed whatsoever then distant Earth bases are certainly more than just years away, they would be centuries to thousands of years away if the ship was then restricted solely to slower-than-light speeds. Recall that Spock says Delta Vega is only “a few light days away.” Well it’s only light days if you can travel at least at the speed of light or better. And so perhaps what is really being said in WNMHGB is that the damaged ship’s engines are precluding normal warp speeds, but not very low warp speeds such as under WF 1.

This idea goes pretty much unsupported until a reference to Warp .5 in _ST-TMP._ Now if the crippled _Enterprise_ in WNMHGB can still achieve a speed of up to WF .9 then it can reach Delta Vega within two weeks if it’s within five light years distance. That could be close enough to be accepted as “a few light days away.”

Something else established is that a starship _Valiant_ disappeared some two hundred years earlier and evidence places it at the edge of the galaxy (whichever “edge” that may be). Regardless it means some form of FTL drive must have been available two centuries earlier or how else did the _Valiant_ get out there?—something which is never explained.


Throughout the series there are references to numerous star systems that are known in astronomy today. These are stars that the _Enterprise_ is referenced to actually have been to during its voyage--and if they are accepted as being the same or related to stars we know today then it is telling.

Rigel = 900 ly. (“The Cage” and “Mudd’s Women”)
Vega = 26 ly. (“The Cage”)
Galaxy edge = 20,000 ly. or 1,500 ly. (“Where No Man Has Gone Before,” “By Any Other Name” and “Beyond The Farthest Star”)
Omicron Ceti = 170 ly. (“This Side Of Paradise”)
Ceti Alpha = 130 ly. (“Space Seed”)
(Vulcan) 40 Eridani = 16 ly. {“Amok Time”)
Altair = 17 ly. (“Amok Time”)
Pollux = 250 ly. (“Who Mourns For Adonis?”)
Gamma Trianguli = 84 ly. (“The Apple”)
Gamma Hydra = 110 ly. (“The Deadly Years”)
Alpha Carinae = 71 ly. (“The Ultimate Computer”)
Sigma Draconis = 19 ly. (“Spock’s Brain”)
Beta Aurigae = 80 ly. (“Turnabout Intruder”)
Beta Lyrae = 210 ly. (“The Slaver Weapon”)
Galaxy centre = 30,000 ly. (“The Magicks Of Megas-Tu”)

The aforementioned locations are all over the sky. If these are accepted as the stars we know today then the _Enterprise_ would have to be able to do some serious cruising to get from place to place within the time frames implied in the episodes. And even if they’re not supposed to be the same locales we know of today then even so the series’ writers were still unwittingly suggesting the _Enterprise_ was ranging over at least hundreds and perhaps thousands of light years. This idea is supported by the occasional spoken reference to “throughout the galaxy,” even if this was a degree of exaggeration on the part of the characters.

You cannot just dismiss it all as sloppy writing and therefore meaningless when the sheer amount of direct and indirect references is conveying something substantial as a whole. Why use real astronomical references if not to at least suggest where your stories are taking place? Science fiction writers since the beginning and still presently use actual known stellar references to lend their stories a measure of credibility. Why should _Star Trek_ be any different?

Additionally:
“Balance Of Terror” (Stardate 1709.1) – The important idea here is that ships from a century earlier were significantly less advanced. And it reinforces the idea conveyed in “The Cage” that some sort of “time barrier” was surpassed in more recent decades. The “time barrier” idea may actually be only something of a colloquial expression, but it seems to be intended to convey the idea of a significant advancement in stardrive propulsion within the last twenty years.

“The Squire Of Gothos” (Stardate 2124.5) – The real reference here is that Gothos is supposedly 900 light years from Earth despite the question of Trelane’s telescopic observations. At this time _Star Trek_ had not yet firmly established when it was set, but the references in this episode suggest the 27th century since Trelane refers to things he studied from the around the 17th to 18th century era.

“The Conscience Of The King” (Stardate 2816.6) – The _Enterprise_ is diverted three light years off her course to respond to Dr. Thomas Leighton’s summons. The inference in the episode is that while inconvenient it didn’t take too long for the _Enterprise_ to make such a detour.

“The Galileo Seven” (Stardate 2821.5) – The Murasaki 312 quasar effect has encompassed at least four star systems and the _Enterprise_ has no idea where in all of that the shuttlecraft _Galileo_ has disappeared. The shuttlecraft would have had at least some warp capability for those star systems to have been within its range within a rather short period of time because the _Enterprise_ could not afford to tarry for very long before moving on to meet a deadline.

“The Menagerie” (Stardate 3012.4) – The _Enterprise_ travels from Starbase 11 to Talos 4 within what seems to be barely a few days. And this idea is reinforced by Spock’s reference that Talos 4 is only a few days away. This suggests that Starbase 11 is possibly within a couple of hundred light years of the Talos star group. This episode also reaffirms the idea that shuttlecraft are warp capable. Otherwise it would be totally pointless for a sublight limited shuttlecraft to attempt to chase the Enterprise warping out of orbit.

“Arena” (Stardate 3045.6) – The Metrons displace the _Enterprise_ 900 parsecs (2934 ly.).

“Tomorrow Is Yesterday” (Stardate 3113.2) – The _Enterprise_ has returned to Earth even if it is also back in time. But Earth still had to be within a reasonable range because even 200-300 years wouldn’t account for much stellar drift.

“Space Seed” (Stardate 3141.9) – The question here is: how fast was the _Botany Bay_ traveling when it left Earth? That would tell us how far it got by the time the _Enterprise_ found it 200 years later. The _Botany Bay_ group is landed in the nearby Ceti Alpha system which is 130 light years away. That might suggest the _Botany Bay_ was traveling at something like forty to sixty percent of light. Not bad for a 1990s era spacecraft. (-: Another point, though, is that dating the _Botany Bay_ from the 1990s and stating the ship was found about two centuries later sets _Star Trek_ around the late 22nd to early 23rd century. It’s also established here that humanity used sleeper ships until 2018, which suggests that something happened that made sleeper ships obsolete.

“The Gamesters of Triskelion” (Stardate 3211.7) – The _Enterprise_ crosses 11.63 light years in a rather short period of time between Warp 2 and Warp 7. By my scale this would have taken less than two hours which fits with what is implied in the episode.

“Metamorphosis” (Stardate 3219.8) – The shuttlecraft is obviously far out of range of immediate help from the _Enterprise_ when it is intercepted by the Companion. The shuttlecraft again needed warp drive to perform its task or it would have been simply faster to have had the _Enterprise_ pick up Commissioner Hedford. What is also established here is that the space warp was available in some form at least 150 years earlier.

“Amok Time” (Stardate 3372.7) – The _Enterprise_ somehow has to manage the distance between Vulcan (40 Eridani) and Altair 6 within the space of scant days. Now these two stars are both only about 16 light years from Earth, but they are definitely not in the same part of the sky. As such Kirk still has to push the _Enterprise_ to the maximum.

“This Side Of Paradise” (Stardate 3417.3) – Omicron Ceti is 170 light years from Earth, if it is indeed the same star we know of today. And the colonists supposedly took over a year to get there. That would mean the colonists were traveling aboard a very slow ship. Or if it’s a different star than the one we know then the colonists could have been traveling at about Warp 2 to someplace within 500 light years.

“Friday’s Child” (Stardate 3497.2) – There is a reference to a freighter not being able to go more than about Warp 2. By my reckoning that would mean the freighter had a practical yet rather limited range of about 150-200 light years or so.

“Obsession” (Stardate 3619.2) – The _Enterprise_ has to rendezvous with the _Yorktown_ within forty-eight hours while chasing the cloud creature between planets Argus 10 and Tychos 4 which are supposedly more than a thousand light years apart.

“The Slaver Weapon” (Stardate 4187.3) – The shuttlecraft _Copernicus_ needed warp drive to have conducted its mission and to have been out of range of immediate aid from the _Enterprise_.

“I, Mudd” (Stardate 4513.3) – The _Enterprise_ travels for four days at Warp 7 to a planet that has never been charted. By my reckoning they went more than 650 light years.

“By Any Other Name” (Stardate 4657.5) – The _Enterprise_ returns to the edge of the galaxy within a rather short period of time. Thus the ship is already out near the rim or it’s piercing the nearer upper or lower plane. The interesting wrinkle here is that the Kelvans claim their voyage from Andromeda took three hundred years. And Kirk claims the _Enterprise_ couldn’t reach Andromeda for thousands of years. Well even at WF3 at Warp 9 it would take the _Enterprise_ over 3000 years to reach Andromeda. Even at the Kelvans modified Warp 11 it would still take more than 1600 years. On my scale at Warp 11 it would take only ten years or seventeen years at Warp 9. Two things occur to me here: either intergalactic space is somehow different than interstellar space in such a way that affects warp flight and/or the Kelvans aren’t as advanced as they like to claim at least in regards to starflight propulsion and Kirk was trying to mislead them.

“Return To Tomorrow” (Stardate 4768.3) – The _Enterprise_ travels hundreds of light years beyond where any known vessel has ever gone.

“Assignment: Earth” – Again back in time, but the ship still returns to Earth.

“That Which Survives” – The _Enterprise_ crosses 990.7 light years at Warp 8 and then up to Warp 14.1. By my reckoning the trip would have taken at least four days at Warp 8 and only about eighteen hours at Warp 14. But essentially they make the crossing in a remarkably short period of time of only a couple of days.

“Mudd’s Passion” (Stardate 4978.5) – Harry Mudd steals a shuttlecraft with the intent of eventually making it to a more hospitable star system. The craft would have needed warp drive for Mudd to have made the trip within his lifetime.

“Beyond The Farthest Star” (Stardate 5521.3) – The _Enterprise_ is supposedly on the galactic rim.

“Let That Be Your Last Battlefield” (Stardate 5730.2) – A shuttlecraft stolen weeks earlier from a starbase is intercepted. Again the idea of shuttlecraft with warp drive is reaffirmed or how else could it have gotten in deep space?

“The Magicks Of Megas-Tu” – The _Enterprise_ travels towards the center of the galaxy.

_Star Trek – The Motion Picture_ (Stardate 7412.6) – Kirk orders Warp .5 to clear the Sol system even though the warp drive is supposedly still offline. Perhaps what is really meant here is that higher and more routine warp speeds are unavailable until the new engines are properly calibrated to sustain the necessary space warp fields for higher warp velocities. TMP also implies that the events are set in the latter part of the 23rd century.

While there is very little explicitly specific in reference throughout TOS-TAS-TMP the sheer weight of anecdotal evidence supports that the _Enterprise_ is capable of incredible speeds for the stories to take place within the implied time frames of the stories. Even with a consistent formula as I’ve worked out there are still inconsistencies that arise simply because the TOS writers were not practiced astronomers and experienced interstellar navigators. They were trying to tell stories with a ring of credibility yet not rigidly plotted out in terms of locations and requisite travel times.


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

Now flashing forward to the early seasons of _Star Trek: The Next Generation_ there really isn’t much to contradict what TOS appears to have established in terms of how fast warp speeds appear to be. That is until you hit the reference in “Q, Who?” stating the 1701D will take two years at maximum warp to cross only 7,000 light years. That is a significant inconsistency with what TOS had already established even if much of it indirectly. The only conclusion is either the 1701D era ships aren’t as fast as they’re suggested to be or TNG isn’t of the same continuity as TOS. It beggars credibility to simply dismiss the weight of evidence in TOS as sloppy writing. One can applaud the TNG writers for trying to be more consistent for the sake of credibility, but it was inexcusable to wholly ignore what had already been established.

You could dismiss TNG as an alternate continuity bolstered by other small inconsistencies on continuity with TOS. But those other inconsistencies can be reconciled in something of a pretzel fashion and accept that the TNG era ships are actually not much faster than those of the TOS era. Perhaps something amiss and unsaid is happening in “Q, Who?” to rationalize the slower speed because the 1701D would be doing no better than about Warp 2.5 by my scale. Or maybe while the 1701D was displaced only 7,000 light years it was still already tens of thousands of light years from Federation territory to which it would take two years to return from where Q had sent them, particularly if they had to circumvent the intense radiation of Shapley Center at the heart of the galaxy.

I prefer the latter scenario since it supports the big concept of _Star Trek_ set on a galactic like scale and the Federation starships ranging far into unknown regions. It also makes the galaxy more credible by avoiding the idea that inhabited worlds are crowded around practically every corner. It’s a little more of a rare Earth type concept which makes the galaxy seem more vast and strange. Later TNG and the three later spinoff series pretty much ruined that concept.

Several years ago I heard of an idea bandied about by fans that perhaps warp values mightn’t be consistent in all parts of interstellar space. This idea would be similar to variables in the speed of sound depending on your altitude here on Earth. This variable might reconcile some of the inconsistencies in regards to trip times and warp values referenced throughout the series. It does allow you to fudge it to some degree. But it doesn’t really reconcile the inconsistency between TOS’ implied speeds and the TNG implied speeds if the TNG era ships are really supposed to be a lot faster.


Published _Star Trek_ fiction is not considered “official” in regards to the onscreen stories, but at least two authors picked up on the general idea from which I extrapolated my warp scale. The first was James Blish in his novel _Spock Must Die! _where he had the _Enterprise_ positioned on the opposite side of the galaxy wherein it would take three months to get back to Organia and near Federation territory. The other was John M. Ford’s _The Final Reflection_ which stated that his Klingon characters took several months or so to travel from the Klingon homeworld to Earth at Warp 4 in a story set some thirty years or so before the TOS era.

Blish also based his adaptations of the TOS episodes on early drafts of the scripts. Sometimes these adaptations differed distinctly from the aired episodes. In his narrations he also included references that were not heard in the aired episodes, but were still consistent with what the final episodes established. The first specific was in regards to the Earth/Romulan war mentioned in “Balance Of Terror.” In Blish’s adaptation of the episode it says the war happened a hundred to seventy-five years earlier and lasted for twenty-five years. And that it was fought with primitive ships and weaponry. None of what Blish says contradicts what is established in the aired episode and indeed it actually reinforces it. Note that Diane Duane’s later Rihansuu books extrapolated from James Blish’s adaptation.

Another reference is found in Blish’s adaptation of “Miri.” Based on an earlier draft of the script Blish states that the inhabitants of Miri’s planet were actually descendents of disgruntled Earth colonists. Those colonists could have come from the very first colonization wave of the 21st century. And it makes a measure of sense since the planet’s ruins could be roughly analogous to Earth of the 21st century.

Over the years after I put all of this together into some reasonably coherent general picture. Yet in no way do I claim this is how the TOS creators consciously and deliberately conceived this sequence of _Star Trek _history:

In the early 1990s Earth had continued developing space flight after the successful Apollo program of the late ‘60s and early ‘70s. At that point Earth had primitive ships that could barely get out of the solar system. The idea of sleeper ships may or may not have been actually used in general practice to leave the solar system, but we know at least one ship, the _Botany Bay,_ managed to reach about fifty percent of light in leaving the system and was subsequently found some two and a half centuries later. Around 2018 some more advanced propulsion system was developed that obviated the need for sleeper ships. My speculation is some form of fast relativistic propulsion that could drive ships to high percentages of light thereby exploiting the advantages of significant time dilation and subsequently putting the nearest star systems within reach.

Sometime around the mid 21st century a young scientist named Zefram Cochrane develops the first apparently successful space warp. This would immediately negate any further need for fast relativistic travel. However, the first warp drives were not very advanced and even nearby star systems were still a respectable time away. Even so the first colonization efforts get underway as humanity steps into the galaxy. During the latter 21st and into early 22nd century three things happen: humans encounter Vulcans, humans encounter and fight Kzinti, and the _Valiant_ mentioned in WNMHGB disappears as does a _Bonaventure_ mentioned in TAS’ “Time Trap.”

The _Bonaventure_ mentioned in “Time Trap” is said to have been the first ship with warp drive that disappeared on its third voyage 150 years earlier. This seems rather inconsistent with the established reference that the _Valiant_, a “galactic survey cruiser,” disappeared about two centuries prior to WNMHGB. That’s a fifty year inconsistency. However, it’s also possible that the _Bonaventure_ is indeed the first ship with a recognized space warp drive that does predate the Valiant, but that the _Bonaventure_ was some decades old when it finally vanished. A ship with rather low warp capability could have had voyages that were years long in duration such that it still could have disappeared on its third major voyage. The situation at the time could also be blurred by history in regards to when it became known the ship was actually overdue and missing and accepted as lost.

During the mid 22nd century Earth ships have warp drive, but it’s still on the slow side. Even so humanity is spreading out into the local interstellar area. Then humanity encounters an unknown and unseen race only known as Romulans and a bloody conflict lasting many years ensues. Around this time a ship named _Horizon_ disappears and the implication is that subspace radio is just coming into use and not all ships (such as the _Horizon)_ have it yet. This point needs to be emphasized. Up until the late 22nd century not having any decent means of superluminal communications is going to be a real hindrance in terms of any deep space operations. Any communications restricted to the speed of light will only be convenient if you’re within light seconds, minutes, hours, days or at best weeks of your intended recipient. Otherwise it will take years for a signal to reach home. If you get into trouble and manage to get a signal off no one will likely know (or send help) until years or even decades after the fact. For this reason alone many ships probably went missing and never heard from again until ages later if at all.

The Earth/Romulan war possibly encourages the establishing of an interstellar union known as The United Federation Of Planets. The Federation and subsequently its military/exploration arm known as Star Fleet are established during the latter part of the 22nd century or perhaps even the early part of the 23rd. There are vague inferences in TOS that the UFP and Starfleet may actually be only a few decades old and not a century. Already existent space organizations such as Earth’s United Earth Space Probe Agency continue to operate until at least the mid 23rd century. And finally sometime in the very early part of the 23rd century humanity encounters the Klingon Empire resulting in subsequent decades of distrust and animosity.

Also sometime during the first half of the 23rd century some very significant advances in warp propulsion arose. It may well be connected to the work of Dr. Richard Daystrom. Perhaps Daystrom’s new duotronic computer systems in conjunction with the use of dilithium now allow sufficiently stable fields for much higher warp velocities. Effectively some sort of “time barrier” is broken that now really opens up the galaxy. Daystrom’s systems may also greatly facilitate interstellar navigation at higher warp speeds, or perhaps even making navigating while at warp even possible wherein it may have not been earlier. The gist of this is that prior to these advancements I think humanity was relegated pretty much to an area within only a few hundred light years of Earth and that was stretching it. Afterwards the galaxy was really opened up as never before imagined speeds became available.

If I factor in early TNG references then it really doesn’t upset the cart too much. TNG refers to some manner of societal upheaval during the first half of the 21st century, possibly originating in the Eugenics wars of the 1990s. Perhaps even a handful of nuclear bombs were used that supports TNG’s reference to an atomic horror yet doesn’t specifically contradict TOS’ assertion that humanity had avoided an atomic holocaust. Essentially quite a few people may have died, but the planet was far from being reduced to a radioactive waste. There was obviously enough still functioning governmental infrastructure for Zefram Cochrane to develop his space warp and the first ships to get launched. If the planet had indeed been reduced to bare existence then there would have been absolutely no support system in place to get Cochrane off the ground. People would have been focused wholly on just surviving. At any rate Earth’s World War III originates in the 1990s and lasts into the very early 21st century. The Vulcans may or may not have had a hand in helping Earth along, but I’m inclined to suspect Vulcans would have pretty much steered clear of the apparently violent inhabitants of the Sol system until we got our act together. All we really know is that by recognizing Spock as a Vulcan in TOS then Zefram Cochrane either encountered Vulcans firsthand or at least knew of them during the latter 21st or early 22nd century.

Another possibility is that Cochrane didn’t develop his space warp on Earth, but rather on Alpha Centauri. Recall that Kirk refers to him as Zefram Cochrane of Alpha Centauri. Regardless it means that at some point Cochrane is able to get to Alpha Centauri sometime during the 21st century and his named is widely recognized to be connected with the place.


Anyway that’s my take on it. And I know it contradicts what has since been “officially” established during latter TNG and throughout DS9, VOY and then ENT. But I stand by the notion that the timeline was usurped somewhere along the way either by nefarious or unwitting tampering and/or by inattentive and uncaring Trek writers.

It’s very easy and perhaps even somewhat fashionable for many to casually dismiss fanon. But over the years many interested and devoted fans painstakingly pieced together the clues of _Star Trek’s_ continuity to form a generally coherent whole. They pondered, discussed, debated and even argued over the interpretation of all the given clues, and so it’s somewhat understandable that a lot us got upset when we saw TPTB outright overlook and overrule what seemed so obvious to us for the sake of expediency.

From my perspective the fact that TPTB fashioned a very different “official” continuity does not negate what I and others have managed to piece together. I see fanon’s general continuity as the more likely original timeline that was later corrupted in some manner. Therefore the “history” depicted in ENT and elsewhere in TNG, DS9 and VOY is not the same history that will lead to the TOS and early TNG we are already familiar with.

And that last point will likely be confirmed in the forthcoming Trek XI movie.


The initial objective of my thread was in regards to the nature of warp drive in the TOS era. But it’s inevitable that the issue of _Star Trek’s_ warp drive will lead to the discussion of continuity, because as in our own world speed of travel and technology will have an indisputable influence on society and history.


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

A sneak peek at the unfinished cover sheet. The turnrable/elevator needs to be resized about 19-15% and a shuttlecraft needs to be added.


----------



## Sarvek (Jun 10, 2005)

Totally fantastic work. :thumbsup: You really do put a great deal of thought into everything that you do. I can really see that. Keep up the great work. :thumbsup:


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

^^ Thanks.

Way back when I first envisioned this project I was initially planning on using a photoshopped photo for the cover, but since then I think an illustration is more representative of the interior art and perhaps cleaner looking. I also wanted the art to evoke something of the style seen in some of the illustrations in _The Making Of Star Trek._

I've also been giving some further thought to the form(s) this will finally take. All along I planned this as a set of 11x7 in. sheets which I can easily make in PDF form. And as I've said before I will be forwarding a few of these sets _gratis_ to those who have been great of great help during this work.

Another form this can take is a PDF set of 8x11 in. sheets or as a bound hardcopy of 8x11 zine like form. I think I could get this put together for a reasonable cost and then priced shipping and handling included for about $10-$20 Canadian or US.

The final form is the one I'm really keen on. The large sheets on CD that would allow me to add extra material as well as perhaps sound files. Actually the best way for this approach is to wait until I have other projects to include on the CD while having the plans themselves available as they're completed.


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

The completed cover sheet.










Im not sure the ship's scale is exactly right, but it doesn't really matter because the illustration is based on the small forced perspective hangar deck filming miniature set. The fact that the ship is larger than the original filming miniature makes it look more appropriately sized.

Actually as I study it I think I could have pushed the ship and turntable/elevator back towards the doors a bit more and proportionately shrink them in size a little. But I don't feel like messing with this anymore. If I my say so I think it looks okay and fine as it is. I suppose the perspective approximates what the view would look like from the observation platform along the front of the hangar. To be really accurate the scene would look like you're looking downward a bit more, but like I said I'm not changing it now. I also toyed with putting a conventional defining border around the image, but I like the open look better.


----------



## Sarvek (Jun 10, 2005)

Your cover rocks! :thumbsup::thumbsup: I really like the fact that you put the Class H shuttle on the turntable and in a perspective view. That takes a great deal of talent.:thumbsup: Keep those updates coming. I really love your artwork. :thumbsup:

Your cover invokes the fact that these general plans will not just be about the standard shuttle, but other shuttles that are in the Starfleet inventory. Great work as always. :thumbsup:


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

I apologize for the slow pace, but as a project of pure hobby it's subject to real life's interference and my being up to the task after work at my day job.

I will say that although I can't promise a time table there are other TOS related projects I'd like to do when I can.

- the TAS shuttlecraft
- the TMP era shuttlecraft
- the Pike era _Enterprise_
- starships from the 21st to early 23rd century
- my interpretation of the FJ destroyer class
- Starfleet uniforms and weaponry
- Klingon and Rihansuu (Romulan) starships


----------



## Sarvek (Jun 10, 2005)

You are doing just fine. :thumbsup: I have become a fan of your work and really appreciate it.


----------



## Sarvek (Jun 10, 2005)

I also design starships, shuttles, mission patches, and etc. I have my own version of the _Valiant_, which is loosely based off of the _Conestoga_. I am thinking about redesigning the Bonaventure from _Time Trap_. Keep up the great work. :thumbsup:


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

Although I'm nowhere near starting other projects yet I still sketch ideas out for future reference. I've been sketching out ideas for the _Bonaventure_ that echoes some of the shapes and lines of the TAS ship, but it still looks sufficiently 150 years older while avoiding the obvious ripoff of the TOS _E_ shape.

I still do a lot of drawing freehand to get what I'm going for. I only do finished work on computer.


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

I've since been thinking about the references to the _Valiant_ and _Bonaventure_.

The _Bonaventure_ is mentioned by Scotty in "Time Trap" as the first ship with warp drive and its disappearance is around the same time as Zefram Cochrane's disappearance. That would be about fifty years after Cochrane developed his space warp.

The _Valiant_ is mentioned as disappearing about two hundred years ago and about fifty years before the missing _Bonaventure_.

This raises the questions: was the _Valiant_ a warp drive ship? And how did it end up at such an extreme distance?

The second question doesn't really need to be answered if we assume some sort of anomaly threw the _Valiant_ that far out whether it was a warp drive ship or not. But if it was a warp drive ship then how can that be reconciled with the _Bonaventure_ supposedly being the first ship with warp drive?

Two possibilities occur to me. The _Bonaventure_ could have been built just before the _Valiant_ and yet didn't disappear until some decades later on its third major voyage. Or it was the first ship _designed_ with warp drive in mind from its inception.

This could mean the _Valiant_ was a pre-existing ship that had warp drive retrofitted to it. So technically it was a ship with warp drive predating the _Bonaventure_, but it had not been originally designed that way. The _Valiant_ could have been one of those "new" ships that came along after sleeper craft were superceded in 2018 (re: "Space Seed). Then along comes Cochrane's space warp and the Valiant is given a new lease on life refitted as a warp drive ship.

Recall also that the _Valiant_ was specifically designated as a "galactic space cruiser" and so it had to be something more than just a transport upgraded.


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

I'm reconsidering some of my ideas seeing how that cover sheet came out. When it comes to the interior of the ships I think I'll do this:

- Port cross-section (already completed for Class F)
- Starboard cross-section (already completed for Class F)
- Deck plan (mostly completed for Class F)
- Forward Main Cabin view (same style as the cover sheet)
- Aft Main Cabin view (same style as the cover sheet)

While being a little more visually dynamic this also allows me to forego a Ceiling Plan which is mostly superfluous anyway.


One of the ideas I have is in regards to sound files. I was thinking of trying to include small clips of TOS music associated with the shuttlecraft when you open certain pages. Looking at the interior views you could also hear the sound f/x associated with the shuttlecraft interior.


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

A works-in-progress update.










While this is based on a screencap it does reflect the slight adaptations I've made in my plans. The craft's beltline is a bit higher than in the show just as the chairs will not be quite so low slung. The major difference between the Class F and Class H in the forward view will be the viewscreen setup, but there will also be some other small things apparent. There will be more noticeable differences in the Aft Views where the aft arrangment will be more apparent between the two classes.


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

As soon as I can get it loaded somewhere I have a little presentation to share. It's really just a test of an idea where the shuttlecraft drawings are presented in a slideshow fashion accompanied by TOS based sound f/x.

I still have drawings to complete as well as finalizing what f/x I hope to include. It could be viewed as a Quicktime movie, a Keynote or a PowerPoint presentation.


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

Try here and click "download file now" near the lower right of the page for a test PowerPoint presentation of my shuttlecraft plans. Remember this is still early stages.

Feedback appreciated since this is my first effort. (-:

And be certain your computer's audio is on.


----------



## Sarvek (Jun 10, 2005)

I tried it and all I get is warnings. Are you sure that your link is working?


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

Sarvek said:


> I tried it and all I get is warnings. Are you sure that your link is working?


I tried it again and it worked perfectly. A friend just replied that it worked perfectly for him as well.

The photomanips will have to be redone for better resolution.


----------



## Sarvek (Jun 10, 2005)

It is not working for me.  I have tried several times. I guess that I am not allowed to see it.


----------



## Darth Humorous (Dec 6, 2001)

Doesn't work for me either. I also get warnings. However, I am using a Mac, so I dunno if that makes a difference.

Mark


----------



## Sarvek (Jun 10, 2005)

Darth Humorous said:


> Doesn't work for me either. I also get warnings. However, I am using a Mac, so I dunno if that makes a difference.
> 
> Mark


I have a regular PC and I am still having the same problem. Warped9, could you make a PDF zip file so that we could see it? I have Adobe Acrobat and it is functioning properly.


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

Heh. I did this on an eMac. And a pdf file won't have the sound f/x the presentation has.

I'll look into it. I just tried it again from work and it downloads fine.


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

Try this.


----------



## Sarvek (Jun 10, 2005)

Warped9 said:


> Try this.


Thank you that is working perfectly. :thumbsup: I really love the slideshow presentation and the sound files attached with it. Great work as always. :thumbsup:


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

My hope is to have a presentation of about two or so minutes long that will present the schematics as well as some photomanips _a la_ my *Never seen TOS scenes* kind in a slide show style where you can also print out copies of the schematics.

I will have to remake my photomanips for better resolution. And I have to cut and paste some voice clips from episodes on DVD to overlap with some sound f/x. I'm also considering some simple animations in terms of motion and lighting f/x to liven up the images.

And note that if it's converted to DIVX format then it could be played on a big screen TV. I put some of my photomanips and large scale drawings on a 4G USB flash drive and plugged it into my 32in. LCD just for fun. Coool!


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

This past holiday weekend I managed to cut-and-paste and record almost all the audio tracks (including voice and f/x clips) I'll need for my presentation. I think they came out pretty good and sound kinda cool.


----------



## Sarvek (Jun 10, 2005)

I will be looking forward to that. :thumbsup:


----------



## darkwanderer (Mar 11, 2008)

It's been two years this month since the last post. Has the project died? 
Or did I miss something?


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

No, hasn't died, but real life got me side tracked. I'm trying to get it going again now that things have settled down over these past six months. That and being caught up corresponding with a sweetheart in Russia. (-:


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

Here's a nugget. Many of us are awaiting the _Haynes Operating Manual_ or whatever it's called featuring the TOS _Enterprise_ and tech. OF course, the shuttlecraft will be in it.

Well, seems a pic of their take on the shuttlecraft is online ...and I've been studying it.










Looking closely at this three things leap out at me. First looking at the side panels of the upper hull *they're bent* _just like the old AMT model kit._ Sorry, but this is a huge inconsistency with what we saw onscreen. And it doesn't gel with the construction drawings.

Secondly, _there is no aft cabin._ :wtf: The main cabin fills the entire interior. This is certainly *not* the shuttlecraft we saw onscreen.

Thirdly, the chairs don't have the right bases. They're the bases of the AMT kit.

I'm still curious to look this thing over, but at the risk of sounding self-important these guys have little to show me in regards to the TOS shuttlecraft. I think I figured it out better than they did. The only thing they did similar to me was give the craft a double hull.

Here's where I'm going.


----------



## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

After watching all this work you've done over the year(s), I have no doubt that no other set of plans could be 'more accurate' (or 'realistic') than the achievements you've shared with us here. Definitively top-notch work!


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

This book is beginning to make me think of Franz Jospeh's _Star Fleet Technical Manual_ and _Booklet Of General Plans._ They look quite impressive at first glance, but the more you scrutinize the less impressive they are.


----------

