# H.O.P.R.A. Nationals : July 6-9, 2006



## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

http://www.hopra.org/page0005.htm


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## A/FX Nut (May 28, 2004)

Hello, 
I'm curious about the prerace inspections. How hard or easy is it for someone to cheat at this or previous Nationals? Has anyone been disqualified? 
Is there a post race inpection?
Are the entrant's cars impounded? 
These questions have been on my mind. Randy.


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

The internets public HO BB boards are probably not a good place to ask these style of questions,not unless you like sticking your head in a buzz saw.
I'd address them to Paul Reeve at Hopra


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## co_zee (Mar 28, 2005)

Cheating only continues because:

Rules are not clearly written.
Tech inspectors are unsure of the definitions of the rules.
Rules are not enforced equally without bias accross the board.
Rules change at a moments notice.

Cheating is not regulated to events such as National races. It can be found at all levels. Also, cheating itself must be defined itself. If a certian rule is not clear and one unintentionally builds a car in such a way that this rule is violated and a tech inspector thusly enforces the rules according to thier personal interpretation of the said unclear rule, is the person who built the car a cheater?

Many of the rules today that I have read have sop many loop holes that one could, well, let's just say that rules could be far more well defined and concise. Also, definitions need to be those of common understanding and present usuage. I know of a rule which included the word "shall". While this wors has a common and present definition implying it is imminent, it will be so, the originator of said rule personally defined "shall" as maybe or up to the disgression of. This made for some questionable cars after the pre-race tech.

I am not saying that there are cheaters at every race. Nor am I saying that there is a major contengent of cheaters out there waiting to take over a race. On the contrary, I belive there is a very minimal amount of purposed cheating going on but do believe that those who are caught doing so need to be made aware that thier actions will no longer be tolerated. Many times rules vilations are labled cheating but in reality are a result of, as I mentioned in the beginning, unclear and unconcise rules.


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## Mike(^RacerX^) (Mar 15, 2003)

co_zee

How many times have you participated in the HOPRA Nats???????


Mike


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## co_zee (Mar 28, 2005)

Mike,

To answer your question, none. But then, my post was not directed at the HOPRA Nats or any other organization's Nats. My post was directed at cheating and how it rears it's head. So get a grip, I am in no way am condemning the HOPRA Nats nor intended to do so. My post was an attempt to swing the original questions away from the HOPRA Nats themselves and concentrate on the issue. Just speaking from nearly 40 years of experience with HOs. And so you don't get yer panties all bunched up, I have in the past competed in HOPRA, UFHORA, and NITRO organized racing. And many, many races which were governed locally.

Please excuse me for caring!!!!


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## Mike(^RacerX^) (Mar 15, 2003)

Oh believe me I have a grip.Its just that I see this post getting steered away from the original question and on to something that has been absoultly beaten to death on the other HO BBS.And you always seem to be there in the middle of it.

Dont get your panties in a bunch.Just making an observation.

Mike


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## co_zee (Mar 28, 2005)

Well, then you know that if I have something to say about something or somebody that I do not beat around the bush about saying it and have nop real need to sway or steer a topic. I have no problem with direct confrontations nor calling night, night or day, day. I usually end up in the middle of something because I was trying to get things to stop. And with no names or enuendos in my post above, this topic wasn't going anywhere on my account. Simply observations concerning cheating. No implications. 


And I only recall one thread on a board concerning cheating (and the concensus was for the most part unamimous) where I was involved and there was more than meets the eye going on via email than you are aware of my friend. There was no need to even eluded to that here. So, with that, who is trying to sway the topic from the original question???? If you wish to continue discussion along these lines, email me. :wave: 

Otherwise, cheating is cheating and no matter the the rules, governing organization, or Tech, the HO hobby has it's share of it and until things are tightened up, it will continue. As for the HOPRA Nats, as I said, I've never attended but from what I have heard from those who have and from what can be read on the web, it for the most part has been the most unbiased, fair, and concise concerning thier rules and the enforcement of them. I would not in any way hesitate to attend as a competitor if I felt so inclined.


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## A/FX Nut (May 28, 2004)

Hornet said:


> The internets public HO BB boards are probably not a good place to ask these style of questions,not unless you like sticking your head in a buzz saw.
> I'd address them to Paul Reeve at Hopra


20 years ago I was in what was called West Germany and spent time on the east west border with the East Germans and Russians ready to come across and seek my destruction. I'm not afraid of buzz saws or buzz saws of any slot car organization. I was just asking a few SIMPLE questions.
These questions are directed at people TRYING to gain an unfair advantage by CHEATING. Not someone who unknowingly builds an illegal car.
I'm sorry to have caused any problems or made anyone feel uneasy, Randy.


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## Mike(^RacerX^) (Mar 15, 2003)

co_zee said:


> Otherwise, cheating is cheating and no matter the the rules, governing organization, or Tech, the HO hobby has it's share of it and until things are tightened up, it will continue. As for the HOPRA Nats, as I said, I've never attended but from what I have heard from those who have and from what can be read on the web, it for the most part has been the most unbiased, fair, and concise concerning thier rules and the enforcement of them. I would not in any way hesitate to attend as a competitor if I felt so inclined.


Im with you on all that.I would attend as well if it was closer.

I still say that all of the politics is whats killing the hobby as far as sanctioned racing events are concerned.At least for "magnet" cars it is.

But as it is,I have a load of fun getting together here in my basement and racing on my track with a bunch of friends once a week or so.WOrks for me
:wave: 

Mike


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## co_zee (Mar 28, 2005)

> I still say that all of the politics is whats killing the hobby as far as sanctioned racing events are concerned.At least for "magnet" cars it is.


Even though you are preaching to the choir, I'll still give ya a witness; Yes and Amen!!! :thumbsup: 



> But as it is,I have a load of fun getting together here in my basement and racing on my track with a bunch of friends once a week or so.


And again: Yes and Amen!! Your on a roll, don't stop now.  

The main reason I get so passionate about the hobby, or moreso the decline of it, is that it has been a part of my life for so long. Sad to see such a major part of it heading the direction it is but thankfully for those who choose to keep it simplistic and fun, the racing will continue such as you are doing. Race on!! :wave:


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

C'mon guys and gals, I just posted this to make sure everyone knew about one of the upcoming significant slot car events.

Please, no politics of pain here. There are plenty of forums where you can can engage in mindless and inane banter that a very small number of misfits who mistakenly pass themselves off as slot car hobbyists and racers engage in for their own warped self pleasure. This is not one of those forums. 

All forms of organized slot car racing are strictly voluntary. These organizations are nothing more than a bunch of people who like to get together to share a common interest. If you want to join in on the fun of organized or disorganized racing, then do so. If you want to have a bunch of people over to your house to eat pizza and race in the basement, then do so. If you want to race against the clock in your basement or garage, then do so. If you don't want to do any of these things, then don't do them. Only you can decide whether you want to join in or walk away. Deciding whether to participate in a race has no more political ramifications than deciding whether to read the newspaper or not. 

What you get out of this hobby is directly related to what you put into it.

- If you cheat, you'll be cheated.
- If you spread hate, you'll be hated.
- If you destroy, you'll create emptiness.
- If you help build, you'll create a foundation for others to stand on.
- If you join in, you'll enjoy the camaraderie of others.

If there is anyone lurking out there who wants to take in one or more of the upcoming national level HO slot car racing events then please feel free to show up and share in the things that make this hobby great: the great people and the great racing.


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## highcountry (Apr 6, 2005)

"If there is anyone lurking out there who wants to take in one or more of the upcoming national level HO slot car racing events then please feel free to show up and share in the things that make this hobby great: the great people and the great racing."

I'll pass, would rather stick pins in my eyes than go to any Nats race. No they are not fun and filled with BS. Wiping my butt with the cash and tossing it in a sewer would be a better use of the cash it costs to attend one. Just look at any board or talk no almost anyone who ever attended one of these races and it is clearly something to be avoided. Basement racing with friends under ones own rules is about the only way to go and have fun.


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

For the life of me I just can't understand why there is such a negative fanaticism around some topics in this HOBBY. It's not bad enough that some people choose not to participate in something themselves, but they feel the need to spread their hatred and bias like a malignant cancer to innocent bystanders and people who consider HOBBIES to be something that one engages in for pleasure. 

Sad, very sad.


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