# Poll: Purple CCFL vs Blue LEDs in nacelles (pics):



## CaptDistraction (Feb 1, 2005)

Purple CCFLs:









Blue LEDs:









What do you guys think? Version of the model is TMP Refit.


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## dan1701d (Jun 9, 2004)

I think purple for a couple reasons:
1. Its not the same ol blue nacelles
2. I am in K-State territory and that is our color, LOL
3. just because, I really like both and just had to pick one.


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## CaptDistraction (Feb 1, 2005)

well, I thought the word was on the street that the original colors were purple, however, all the pics I can find are blue, I think it was just the way it was filmed, because my camera did just that the first few attempts with auto-whitebalance.


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## uss_columbia (Jul 15, 2003)

Yes, it was definitely purple as-built. We've seen the pics of the early model (before bridge spots and such). We have Andrew Proberts word.
However, it was blue on-screen in TMP in every shot I've noticed.
So, are you building a model of the model or a model of the "real" starship? If a model of the model, purple (which I like a lot). If a model of the "real" Enterprise, blue (which also looks very good).


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## uss_columbia (Jul 15, 2003)

Here's a better answer:
Build one ship each way! (I have 4 of the model, maybe I'll take my own advice.)


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## CaptDistraction (Feb 1, 2005)

uss_columbia said:


> Yes, it was definitely purple as-built. We've seen the pics of the early model (before bridge spots and such). We have Andrew Proberts word.
> However, it was blue on-screen in TMP in every shot I've noticed.
> So, are you building a model of the model or a model of the "real" starship? If a model of the model, purple (which I like a lot). If a model of the "real" Enterprise, blue (which also looks very good).


I definately subscribe to the school of a replica of the replica. I'm trying to duplicate what it looked like in the studio, because likely, any picture taking of it will return similar results as what the original filming did. I had to photoshop the purple one to get it back to the shade that my eyes saw.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

uss_columbia said:


> Yes, it was definitely purple as-built. We've seen the pics of the early model (before bridge spots and such). We have Andrew Proberts word.
> However, it was blue on-screen in TMP in every shot I've noticed.
> So, are you building a model of the model or a model of the "real" starship? If a model of the model, purple (which I like a lot). If a model of the "real" Enterprise, blue (which also looks very good).


About a month ago this was discussed in a thread here.
Apparently the original color was purple and some film was even shot with the nacelles purple. There were even some stills released to a sci-fi mag at the time showing them lit as purple.

For whatever reason it didn't look right on film and they allegedly changed it before actual production filming began.

So it wasn't just a lighting anomaly, it was originally purple but then changed to blue before actual filming began.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

Also, here is a "best of both worlds" solution, compliments of member Cloudwalker, whose post I just found...



Cloudwalker said:


> Is it purple? Is it blue? Is it purply-blue? Who cares! I found the perfect solution to apease all color interpretations. There is a company selling a blue/purple 2 in 1 CCT. It has a switch you can wire up to change it to either color. Here's a link to the product. They're a teeny bit pricey for a CCT at $9.99 each, but considering you're technically getting two tubes in one super compact tube, the price is a steal. Here's a link: http://www.xoxide.com/logisys-blue-uv-2-in-1-twin-cold-cathode.html
> 
> 
> 
> What do you guys think?


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## CaptDistraction (Feb 1, 2005)

haha, I'm tired of spending money on the refit, oh man.

I'd so jump on those CCFL's if I hadn't already bought a set. I'll probably push it a bit more to blue with another layer of walmart bag blue plastic (kid you not), and call it a day. I've got too many other lighting difficulties to work on, not to mention a crapload of sealing to do.

On edit, when I finish this one, I'll build a 1701A with blue if I am really dying for it.


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## Garbaron (Apr 23, 2004)

Obviously purple since Andrew Probert says they are purple!

So you brain guys, now that this is said….does anyone of you know what the REAL color of the outboard warp nacelle grills are??

I know, cos I talked to Andy Probert myself, but do you?


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Purple is correct. The real ones were clear acrylic tinted with purple machinist's marking die.


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## Steve244 (Jul 22, 2001)

UV! (visible purple with an otherworldly glow...)


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## spe130 (Apr 13, 2004)

I've got a set of UV CCFLs, and a set of blue CCFLs. The 1701 will be UV purple, the 1701-A will be blue.


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## klgonsneedbotox (Jun 8, 2005)

I agree with purple...

Does anybody remember the original ERTL/AMT smoothies that were sold in 1979/80 (I believe)? These kits had reflective stickers for the inboard and outboard nacelles. The inboards were purple. These also had rub down transfer decals. I wish I still had mine.

Garbaron: Outboard nacelle color? Gunmetal maybe?

Edit: Forgot to ask...how many LEDs (and what size) for the blue in the picture above?


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## Garbaron (Apr 23, 2004)

klgonsneedbotox said:


> Garbaron: Outboard nacelle color? Gunmetal maybe?


Nope


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## klgonsneedbotox (Jun 8, 2005)

I have no idea...Medium grey? Do we get anything if we guess it correctly?


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

So they were never changed to blue?
Curious...

The guy who painted TMP finish wrote that by the time he got to work on the ship the plastic inserts were blue. But he may be mistaken.

Oh well.

Cloudwalker's solution still seems like the neatest one.
Want to make it look like it looked onscreen, switch to blue.
Want it purple, switch it to purple.

Thanks Cloudwalker!


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## Garbaron (Apr 23, 2004)

Yeah the correct answer LOL

No serious.

I had a talk with Andrew Probert. He saw my Refit at Cults site and contacted me, because he really liked it. But said I did the same error EVERYONE does. 

The error being wrong colors for the inboard and outboard warp nacelle grills.
He told me that the inboard grills are of a purple color with a kind of satin finish to it (so it is shimmering), while the out board grill material is indeed brushed aluminium material!
He says noone ever cached that and it appears dark grey or anthracite because the material is highly reflective and reflects the dark surroundings. 

This is no BBS I am talking here! 
This info comes from Andy Probert himself! 

As a proof I give you the mail he wrote to me:

“From: Andrew Probert
Gesendet: Dienstag, 12. Juli 2005 22:10
To: [email protected]
Subject: Hmmm, colors

Thorsten,

Just stumbled into your CultTVman Refit article,...an amazing job on a crappy model.

I'm sure you've seen this photo but made the same mistake that every other modeler has made regarding the warp engine sides,... even when presented with this well lighted example. The outboard sides are indeed a brushed aluminum material, and the inboard color is a flat purple grape color with a kind of funny sheen to it, like over-ironed trousers. Those details just forward of that area are the copper color which you also see here.”

Take it or leave it, but it’s the correct color information for the nacelle grills


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

BTWay, here's a link to the guy who gave TMP Enterprise her pearlescent finish, in case anyone hasn't seen the site referenced in the finishing thread:

http://www.olsenart.com/strek.html


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## klgonsneedbotox (Jun 8, 2005)

I'm going with purple just so mine can be easily distinguished from the actual studio model (LOL)...yeah, that will be the ONLY difference between the two... :freak: 

I remember some of my favorite pics of the ship, and I see purple in those pics...

like this one...
http://www.lcarscom.net/fsd/enterprise/1701/ent-2.jpg


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## klgonsneedbotox (Jun 8, 2005)

That's interesting because the old reflective decals for the original "smoothies" had an aluminum colored sticker for the outboard nacelles. Maybe they got something right after all!!! 

Brushed aluminum eh...I can deal with that...


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## Nova Designs (Oct 10, 2000)

Wow, those dual color cathode tubes are awesome! I'm definitely ordering a set of those. Thanks for the link.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

That's what I thought when I saw them. Original credit goes to Cloudwalker though.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Purple!

It's always bothered me that the nacelle grilles AND the deflector are the same color of blue in a lot of the shots.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

PerfesserCoffee said:


> Purple!
> 
> It's always bothered me that the nacelle grilles AND the deflector are the same color of blue in a lot of the shots.


Yep. Obviously it was changed at some point.
Wish I could find that thread that referenced when that occurred.
I recall someone saying it was changed out before production filming began. 

I'm personally more interested in seeing the ship as it was seen onscreen, rather than how it looked to a few dozen industry employees/fans who got to see it before the change.

But that's just my own personal preference.

Anyone who wants to can just go with the dual color violet/blue switchable CC's and change their minds and model's look whenever they want.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

Found the thread.

The subject starts to be covered at about post 12.

Here 'ya go:

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?p=1124260&highlight=purple#post1124260


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## Cloudwalker (Sep 25, 2004)

Chuck_P.R. said:


> Cloudwalker's solution still seems like the neatest one.
> Want to make it look like it looked onscreen, switch to blue.
> Want it purple, switch it to purple.
> 
> Thanks Cloudwalker!


You're welcome, Chuck! I get tons of ideas and helpful hints from everyone on this board, so I like to chime in with my two cents when I can.

I received my blue/UV CCTs and tested them out. Here's some advice to anyone planning on purchasing these:

1.) If you plan on installing them out of the box, make sure you mount them so that the purple side of the tube is facing the grill. OotB, the switch for the tube either has the blue on at high intensity, blue at low intensity with the UV on at the same time, or both off. The blue can overpower the UV, thus the reason you want to mount the purple on the outside.

2.) If you're handy with electronics (which I'm not, but thankfully my brother is a genius at), snip a few wires and connect them to a 4 way switch. This will enable you to have solo UV at high intensity, solo blue, blue AND UV at low intensity together, or both off.

3.) You'll have to whip out your handy Dremel tools and grind off a good deal of the square acrylic endcaps to get the nacelle halves to close.

4.) Smirk and gloat at your kickin' rad inboard lioghting which will please both sides of the "Is it purple or blue?" camp!


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## Cloudwalker (Sep 25, 2004)

Garbaron said:


> The error being wrong colors for the inboard and outboard warp nacelle grills.
> He told me that the inboard grills are of a purple color with a kind of satin finish to it (so it is shimmering), while the out board grill material is indeed brushed aluminium material!
> He says noone ever cached that and it appears dark grey or anthracite because the material is highly reflective and reflects the dark surroundings. Take it or leave it, but it’s the correct color information for the nacelle grills


Here's a Jeff Brown Smithsonian '92 pic that proves this color scheme. Inboards are definitely purple, outboards are definitely aluminum.


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## JeffG (May 10, 2004)

This ship is all over the road! The purple looks really good (Prince would be impressed too), but the blue also looks good. I think the average person, if they saw purple lighted engines would probably say "Humph, I thought they were blue!" 

I'm going more for how most recognize it and making the warp glow blue. I don't think either way is wrong and it's more a matter of personal taste. Keep in mind though that none of the other Starfleet vessels have a purple glow-at least as far as I know.


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## Garbaron (Apr 23, 2004)

Cloudwalker said:


> Forgive me if it's not kosher to link to this site, but here's a Jeff Brown Smithsonian '92 pic that proves this color scheme. Inboards are definitely purple, outboards are definitely aluminum. You wanna look at the pic titled, "JBsm12a.jpg"
> 
> http://culttvman.com/assets/images-STAR_TREK-2005/JBsm12a.jpg



I have the very same picture and that’s also the one Andy talks about in his mail to me, he even added it to proof his point. 

BUT I used a different picture for color reference and overall looks and it is NOT visible there, so I complete missed the aluminium looks and purple inboard grills…. And judging from ALL the Refits I have seen EVERYONE missed it!!!!

The isn’t a single Refit at the net showing the aluminium!!!!


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## Garbaron (Apr 23, 2004)

Forgot to add the reference I used.


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## klgonsneedbotox (Jun 8, 2005)

Interesting...Jeff Brown's picture clearly looks as though he used a flash...the similar pic from McCullars I'm not sure about.

The "proof of purple" does raise an interesting question though. If the lines are purple but the on screen lighting from most of TMP, and definitely the sequels, is blue, were there any effects done post edit to change the color? Also, is the purple on the raised grille or the lower areas in between the grille?


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## sbaxter at home (Feb 15, 2004)

If the model was filmed against a blue screen, would using blue lighting cause a conflict with that? Of course, I realize the deflector was blue in the sequels, so maybe they used a green screen. Or paisley ...

Qapla'

SSB


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## podmonger (Apr 30, 2005)

It's possible that the lights inside the nacelles gave a slightly greenish cast to the motion picture film, sending the purple toward blue when the nacelles were lit.

Steve


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## Bay7 (Nov 8, 1999)

As much as I hate to say it - being a purist and all but blue looks much nicer than the purple.


How about putting blue AND purple in there  

Mike


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

Please note that in the picture that shows that purple was at the very least used in PRE-production on the nacelles, the impulse engines were BLUE - not red.

So would a "purist" also change the long accepted red to blue on the impulse engines too?

Personally I don't think making the engines a colour that only a couple dozen people have seen it look like offscreen makes one a purist. Especially if one went so far as to change the impulse engines from red to blue.

But again, I must agree that if you can't resolve the dillema to your own satisfaction, just buy the switchable purple/blue bulbs.

Now anyone have some switchable blue/red LED's for the impulse engines? :lol:

The sensor dish was originally going to be amber at non-warp and blue at warp. Anybody have any amber/blue switchable LED's too while we're at it? :lol:


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

Here's a very definitive picture that isn't really as definitive as it looks after closer examination...

This raises a VERY interesting question.

In the pic the color cast on the pylons is CLEARLY purple.
HOWEVER, the color of the nacelles is CLEARLY BLUE.

Only in TMP did the Pearlescent paint job exist in it's fully glory. This finish had various irredescent sheens to the finish including blue and violet(purple).

So when final shooting was done, were the engines purple or were they blue as they appear in 999 of 1000 shots?

How much of the purple seen in some shots have to do with reflected light coming from the pearlescent finish of the ship?(the original painter of the ship also pointed out that the lighting had to be toned down because of the intense colors cast against the other parts of the ship by the finish)

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/attachment.php?attachmentid=18940

^^Also notice in the above link, in this, most purple of the shots available, the impulse engines are blue. How many people are going to change to this totally "uncanon" color on their impulse engines?


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## sbaxter at home (Feb 15, 2004)

Chuck_P.R. said:


> In the pic the color cast on the pylons is CLEARLY purple.
> HOWEVER, the color of the nacelles is CLEARLY BLUE.


Well, that's an image from a scanned source that was _probably_ printed in CMYK -- and getting accurate blues, greens and purples in CMYK is somewhere between tricky and impossible, especially if you're talking _vivid_ blues, greens and purples. So the colors in that image might have already shifted before it was scanned -- if that was indeed the source of the image, of course.

I kind of like the purple -- it's different.

Qapla'

SSB


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## dan1701d (Jun 9, 2004)

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't that pic in Chuck's post of the Phase II ship, which we never see on screen?


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## cinc2020 (May 10, 2004)

Purple. It's not as garish as blue; it's more subtle. Deep purple seems to indicate power more than blue, though I'm not sure why. Lightning, for example, has a sort of violet afterglow, which is kind of neat.

I will be using purple myself, at a relatively low power, however.

Indeed, I'm not even sure why these grills would glow anyway. I may scrap the effect altogether...


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## NJFNick (May 22, 2004)

The ship in the scanned shot is the TMP enterprise before Trumbull changed various aspects of it. Check out the different A and B decks and the red pin striping around the nacelle grills and the edge of the primary hull. Richard Taylor's original blueprints show this in widespread use all over and around the ship (slightly off topic....sorry - pet interest!). 
For what it's worth, i reckon the impulse engines looked more 23rd century in blue, thought the orange / yellow was okay and the red was a non starter.


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## goose814 (Feb 26, 2002)

> Originally Posted by *dan1701d*
> 
> _Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't that pic in Chuck's post of the Phase II ship, which we never see on screen?_


Actually, that is the refit as originally built prior to having the self-illumination modifications added to it.



> Originally Posted by *Chuck_P.R.*
> _Also notice in the above link, in this, most purple of the shots available, the impulse engines are blue. How many people are going to change to this totally "uncanon" color on their impulse engines?_


If you really want to go by cannon , then the impulse crystal should be red. Check out the following photos from STTMP:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v82/goose814/Pdvd_067.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v82/goose814/screen173.jpg

Here's my theory on the impulse engine exhaust color. At first I thought that the color was changed before filming but now I'm wondering if the color is different at certain settings. If you look at the above screencaps from TMP, you will notice that the exhaust is orange as well as the impulse crystal. However, the impulse crystal for the most part was always thought to be only blue in color. It wasn't until STTWOK that the blue crystal and red exhaust came to be. During STTMP, it wasn't really apparent from the shots that were shown what the exact configuration was.

I have yet to check further into this but my thought is that as far as STTMP is concerned, at lower power settings the impulse engines glow orange along with the impulse crystal and at higher settings they both glow blue. This also fits in with the navigational deflector color change. 

Also, the fact that the blue color was used in ST5 indicates to me that the model was originally wired for both colors, orange and blue, and not physically changed from one to the other, as with the navigational deflector. However, to dispute myself, it is possible that the lights or gels or whatever they did to alter the color of the deflector or exhaust may have been changed before the shot it was used in. (Amber bulbs for deflector during low speed flyby shots, replace lights, blue bulbs for deflector during high speed flyby shots. Same thing for impulse exhaust.)

All this, of course, is only my opinion and I am far from an expert on this subject. However, I really hope someday someone can ask Andy Probert about this and we would know for sure. In any case, I think the original film makers put a lot of effort and thinking into making the model seem more like a dynamic and operational machine, much like the TOS Enterprise, instead of the more static lit models that came later. Unfortunately, all of this was ignored after TMP, and ILM started filming the model. (Sorry about that. Never been happy about the way they filmed and treated the model.)


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

I believe red to be canon as well. My point was that there are film shots out there of pre-production versions of the Refit that show not just a purple instead of blue set of nacelles, but also a different color impulse engine; also that show pin-stripping that never made it to the final version; also that show a modified A/B deck.

My point in showing all these descrepencies is that it seems far from being a "purist" to include any of these unseen onscreen modifications.

Changing blue to purple doesn't seem any "more accurate" to me then adding pin-striping no one has ever seen.

But hey, it's your model, make it however you want guys.


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## Four Mad Men (Jan 26, 2004)

Am I incorrect in saying that it was noted (can't remember which person involved with the model/film/what-have-you said it) that the impulse color changed with the output of the engine?


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## JeffG (May 10, 2004)

While you guys debate the color issues, I'm going ahead and build mine! LEEEERROOOY JENKINS!


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## Mike1967 (May 16, 2005)

Been a while since I've seen the movie to remember if it was throughout the whole TMP movie, but going along the lines of color transition for power output. Just an idea that may follow along the same concept, that the warp nacelles were in their warm up period(purple) during the power up from a cold state in the drydock scene and at ready(blue) just before going to warp, then at warp it would be a brighter blue. 

Is this plausible? If so then it could be a great use for the Purple/Blue 2-in-1 Twin Cold Cathode that Chuck P.R. mentioned of Cloudwalker's post.


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## jgoldsack (Apr 26, 2004)

JeffG said:


> While you guys debate the color issues, I'm going ahead and build mine! LEEEERROOOY JENKINS!


I am going to go out on an OT limb here, and say you play World of Warcraft....


And to go OT, I am going to try and build mine with 2 settings.. 1 for low power, where the Nacelles will glow purple, nav deflector a copperish, and the impuse crystal red, the other setting for high power, where all 3 glow blue.

We will see how that turns out...


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## Rogue1 (Jan 3, 2000)

Did you see these in the lighting thread? they have both UV & Blue together. May give you the sometimes blue sometimes purple effect.

http://www.xoxide.com/logisys-blue-uv-2-in-1-twin-cold-cathode.html


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## JeffG (May 10, 2004)

Actually I'm more of a "Splinter Cell" guy, although the Leroy Jenkins video is awesome! That switchable setting idea sounds good. What would really be cool, just for the 'trip you out' factor would be to have, say, the deflector on a rheostat with two bulbs, one yellowish,gold-the other blue and have the first fade up then fade out as the blue takes over to make the 'warming up' effect!


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

Four Mad Men said:


> Am I incorrect in saying that it was noted (can't remember which person involved with the model/film/what-have-you said it) that the impulse color changed with the output of the engine?


The only definite change I'm aware of was TMP sensor going from amber(pre-warp) to blue(warp). 

There might be other changes that were intended but I don't believe the blue color ever made onscreen in TMP. 

To me, blue sensor, blue nacelles, red impulse, makes the most sense. But like I've said, to each their own.


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