# List & opinions of alternative lighting kits to the R2 kit for the 1/350th TOS 1701?



## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

*List & opinions of alternative lighting kits to the R2 kit for the 1/350th TOS 1701?*

Hi guys!

It seems to me that there is some potential for improved lighting kits for the R2 1/350th TOS Enterprise.

A couple of issues with the stock kit have been pointed out.

Not having dedicated, independantly wired LED's for the running lights
on the saucer(really? how much more would it have costs to have
directly wired LEDs rather then one light source that doesn't properly
illuminate either?),

The nacelle LED's can take minutes to fully light up.
The fan blades on some are warped.

The quality and/or noise level of the nacelle motors,

And perhaps other issues I may not be aware of too
that others perhaps could list as well.

I'm not saying any of this to knock R2.

I'm just saying that there seems, with just the issues
I listed above alone,

there is room for someone to create a better add on
kit, perhaps even at a lower cost.

Hopefully with circuit boards the same size so they
fit properly,

hopefully with resistors that don't cause nacelle leds
to take minutes to fully light,

hopefully with as much of the wiring pre-soldered 
and wired as possible and circuit boards tested.

Are there any such kits available and/or being planned?

Anyone who would like to list anything that they would consider to
be an improvement please chime in too.

Perhaps even suggest modifications to the existing R2
kit that would solve any or all of these problems.

Thanks guys! :thumbsup:


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## RossW (Jan 12, 2000)

I'm doing my own lighting solution for a number of the same reasons you mention. I've thought about selling my own kit but that amount of soldering would drive me crazy, and make my kit too darn expensive. I did put out a supplemental board to correct the running light flash timings, but even at $25 I'd barely break even.

BTW, I believe the reason that the PL kit takes time to get going properly in terms of blinking LEDs is due to the zener diode voltage regulation on all the boards. Had they gone the more conventional route of a 7805 voltage regulator component it would have given better performance but cost more.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

If someone would design complete, working boards and include all the components and wiring, I'm sure there are people out there who would be willing to spend over $100 buck
and even drill their own holes for the circuit boards.

The drilling and soldering might take awhile, but I've had to do much more soldering then that in the past, mostly while building a HeathKit TV and a Ham radio receiver.

I'm sure there are some others out there that think the extra work and time would be worth it.

Even some semi-novices might give it a go if someone making such a set took a lot of pictures and included step by step instructions.

Key point would be to also make sure the boards are exactly the same size as the R2
boards so they would fit within the model properly.

Including fan blades and good quality, dependable, and not too loud motors would
be key as well.


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## Havok69 (Nov 3, 2012)

Chuck_P.R. said:


> Hi guys!
> 
> The nacelle LED's can take minutes to fully light up.


Didn't you see the episode "The Naked Time?"

The kit is just representing what the "real" Enterprise it like -it takes at least thirty minutes to regenerate and start warp engines without a proper phase-lock.





Chuck_P.R. said:


> The drilling and soldering might take awhile, but I've had to do much more soldering then that in the past, mostly while building a HeathKit TV and a Ham radio receiver.


I miss Heathkit - I still have my Hero-1 robot...


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

I've seen an all-electronic version of the nacelle effect online that I _thought _was going to be sold on Cult's site but I can't find the video or any reference to it now.


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## RossW (Jan 12, 2000)

Tena Controls did a solid-state nacelle engine circuit, and that's available on Cult's site.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

RossW said:


> Tena Controls did a solid-state nacelle engine circuit, and that's available on Cult's site.


I found it.

Here's the link:

http://culttvman.com/main/?p=26000

Everything looks good except for the Nacelle effects.

The timing looks off and the lack of spinning fanblades
leave something to be desired.

And unfortunately they didn't seem to have the foresight
to design the nacelle circular boards with a hole in the 
middle, for those who might have wanted to add their
own motors.

I may be wrong, but it looks like part of the circuit board
goes right through the center. 

Compare that to the effects of the Master Replicas effects.

I'll attach a small video of mine that illustrates the difference.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

^^^ Sorry about the quality of the video. 

It wasn't high res to begin with, and due to Hobbytalk not being able to
accept even vanilla mpeg files I had to convert it to rm format. 

Here's a link to a video someone else took on Youtube.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

BTWay, the product linked to on Cult's page is a combination of two products,
one from Tena Controls for the nacelles, the other is a light kit from Pargrafix.

All the Paragrix components look fantastic, it's just the Tena Controls nacelle
boards that I'm not too thrilled with.

Maybe I'm wrong about the Tena Controls nacelle boards not allowing a fan 
blade setup.

Maybe the timing can be adjusted to make the led's look a bit better as well.

They do light up quickly, which is a plus.

Also, there is also a chance that Tena Controls might do a new set of nacelle
boards that allow the addition of motor driven fan blades and timing control.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

Okay, I did a little more research.

The Tenna Controls nacelle board's timing can be adjusted.

Still, the timing isn't the only issue with the effect.

Spinning fan blades would look better.

However, if one were to paint the inside of the clear
nacelle translucent amber, then place fan-blade outlines
behind that(sort of like the ones Paulbo(Paragrafix)
makes for the Revell Germany Enterprise, it might greatly 
improve the appearance of the effect.

As the Tenna Control video on Cult's website probably doesn't 
show the effect to it's full potential as in that video, the board
is mounted behind a clear nacelle cap.


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## RossW (Jan 12, 2000)

Chuck_P.R. said:


> Okay, I did a little more research.
> 
> The Tenna Controls nacelle board's timing can be adjusted.
> 
> ...


Not sure what you mean by "Spinning fan blades would look better.". The Tena Controls board is meant to replicate the spinning effect but with LEDs only. Your choices are: motor to spin something with 'blades', or something like the Tena Controls board. They're mutually exclusive.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

RossW said:


> Not sure what you mean by "Spinning fan blades would look better.". The Tena Controls board is meant to replicate the spinning effect but with LEDs only. Your choices are: motor to spin something with 'blades', or something like the Tena Controls board. They're mutually exclusive.


I was constrasting the two.

Simply saying the fan blade method would look more effective.

But the led method would look more effective then it currently does(though probably still not
as close a match as spinning blades) in the video linked to above,
[here is the link again http://culttvman.com/main/?p=26000 ]
if one were to add painted or photo etched blade outlines behind 
translucent amber painted nacelle domes.

The Tena Control boards demo video simply has the effects showing through clear
domes,

which probably makes them look less convincing then they otherwise might.


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## J_Indy (Jan 28, 2013)

Not knocking the Tena Controls because it boils down to personal preference, but the LED approach never looks convincing to me.

On the plus side, however, they are QUIET - whereas there has been a lot of effort by some folks building their kits to quiet the noise of the motors down.

Also, some have mentioned the "wobble" of the blades - sometimes due to the clear piece being cast poorly, but sometimes because the axle of the motor kit is made of plastic, not metal, so there might be some rotational skew from the motor itself.

If dealing with both problems added together, it would be a royal PITA (x2 nacelles).....


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

J_Indy said:


> Not knocking the Tena Controls because it boils down to personal preference, but the LED approach never looks convincing to me.
> 
> On the plus side, however, they are QUIET - whereas there has been a lot of effort by some folks building their kits to quiet the noise of the motors down.
> 
> ...


Agreed on all points.

Some have had success by using better motors then R2 provides.

However, I'd really like to see what the Tena Control nacelle effects
look like behind a translucent amber painted nacelle cap with either
painted or photo etched fan blade outlines.

I think they are shooting themselves in the foot by demoing the nacelle
lights behind crystal clear unpainted nacelles.

It looks like their display model was simply taped together in a lot of places.

I give them credit for getting their nacelles and running lights to market
so quickly.

They have also solved the problem created by the R2 kit that tries to save a few cents
by having a single light source for each top and bottom nav lights on the sides of the saucer. 
Would it have killed R2 to simply include directly wired LED's rather then try to stick 
a light between the two? Illuminating neither properly?


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## robn1 (Nov 17, 2012)

From what I've read of the Tena Controls board, it flickers the LEDs in a manner that simulates spinning blades. I haven't seen it in person, and I suspect that video doesn't capture the effect, but it's meant to be a silent alternative to using motors. I's love to see it in person.


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## DL Matthys (May 8, 2004)

I still hold a lot of faith on the 1st TOS lighting board that RossW had a lot to do with the design and function. It worked well into the AMT Anti-Cut-Away USS Enterprise... then the 18" AMT TOS re-pop, then the Revell Gmbh one was custom build with the same PL motors and even the PL NX-01 with all red LEDs

Waddell Warp Board... WWB...scroll down a bit
http://www.dlmparts.com/tosparts.html

A 1/350 prototype with a larger warp disc had be built and tested already back when the a GK outfit was working towards a vacu-formed model which turned into a fiasco between the pattern maker who used a paper model as his construction plans and the vac kit maker way in over his head. I backed out of that love triangle. I am glad I got the assembled prototype back.

So far...5 models it can work with... Maybe it will also go into a Revell Gmbh JJPrise?

I still etch them in my kitchen sink. Its all DYI kit parts from Digi-key. Those who can not drill, solder, read schematics or determine parts polarity could perhaps just take up Philatelic pursuits in a darkened room.

I can develop it further if there is an interest. But at present my front burner model build issue the the 1/35 AMT TOS Bridge and the ICM 1939 Mercedes Benz 770.

DL Matthys
www.dlmparts.com
[email protected]
Make it Glow!


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

DL Matthys said:


> I still hold a lot of faith on the 1st TOS lighting board that RossW had a lot to do with the design and function. It worked well into the AMT Anti-Cut-Away USS Enterprise... then the 18" AMT TOS re-pop, then the Revell Gmbh one was custom build with the same PL motors and even the PL NX-01 with all red LEDs
> 
> Waddell Warp Board... WWB...scroll down a bit
> http://www.dlmparts.com/tosparts.html
> ...


I think if you produced a set of 1:350th nacelle boards with a hole in the middle of the boards, and included good motors, fanblades and all the parts, LED's etc, to replace the nacelle boards in the Tena Control / Paragrafix kit you would have some takers.

Key would be it matching up with the Tena/Paragrafix kit.

Then everything would be golden!

I bought one of your Cutaway upgrade kits years ago. I found that once I bought a $35 dollar Dremel drill press adapter drilling the right holes in the 
board was a piece of cake. It takes time, there is no denying that. But as 
long as one is careful, no big deal.

I'd still like to see the Tena nacelle effect behind a set of translucent amber painted nacelles though, preferably with fan blade outlines painted or with photoetched parts behind the amber paint.


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## J_Indy (Jan 28, 2013)

Frankly there are options to do your own I think.

There are motors at Electronic Goldmine - as long as they fit and turn at about 60rpm (they tend to have D shafts though that are short, so you have to figure that part out)

Warm white LED strips are fairly cheap. For the ion pod flashers you can use a Velleman
http://www.vellemanusa.com/products/view/?country=us&lang=enu&id=350677

For the running lights you can make your own board. To get the asymmetic timing of on/off look up Lighthouse effect for the LED board using a 555 timing chip and a 4017 IC counter.

There are flashing colored LEDs with chips in the the wiring for the nacelles.

Or course you can get more complicated with Ardino, etc - but for a basic on-screen look, you could piecemeal it.


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## crowe-t (Jul 30, 2010)

I really like the Tenacontrols bussard lighting boards. Having actual fan blades does look more accurate to the studio model but they are very noisy. I haven't begun to build my 1/350 yet but I've seen a few videos with the Round 2 motor/bussard effect and it sounds like a Mac truck. :lol:

Given the 2 bussard lighting options, at this time I would use the Tenecontrols boards. They're quiet and will most likely last much longer then the motors. Sure they don't have the actual fan blades but that's a small compromise to having the noisy motors. I'm hoping someone comes out with quieter motors by the time I start building mine.


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## eagledocf15 (Nov 4, 2008)

J_Indy said:


> Frankly there are options to do your own I think.
> 
> There are motors at Electronic Goldmine - as long as they fit and turn at about 60rpm (they tend to have D shafts though that are short, so you have to figure that part out)
> 
> ...


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## RossW (Jan 12, 2000)

You switch the direction a DC motor spins just by switching the +ve & -ve leads - that's all there is to it.

The Sayama motors at Electronic Goldmine are very similar to the PL ones, but with a smaller shaft.


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## J_Indy (Jan 28, 2013)

eagledocf15 said:


> J_Indy said:
> 
> 
> > Frankly there are options to do your own I think.
> ...


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## J_Indy (Jan 28, 2013)

BTW - the Velleman flasher board I posted has 2 alternating flashing red LEDs, so you would obviously:
1) Replace the red LEDs with white ones (though frankly, you only use 1 side to flash both pods in synch)
2) use only 1 side to flash both ion pods by connecting either 2 white LEDs to 1 side of the board or 1 white LED with some fiber optic cables from it out to the 2 ion pod positions.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

Anyone else try different motors for their 1/350th TOS E?


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

FYI: to make a quote look right, we need to place a forward slash before the second QUOTE. The second one "ends" the quote because of the forward slash. Let's see if I can do this so we can read it:

QUOTE (add square brackets around QUOTE)
stuff
/QUOTE (add square brackets around /QUOTE)

It will look like this once you add the brackets:


> stuff


Carry on!


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## John F (May 31, 2001)

I used the sayama motors in one of mine, they are the same diameter, 12mm, as the pl ones, but the shaft is shorter and smaller. I ca'd a piece of brass tube into the spinners and coupled it to the motor with small dia silicone tubing.
I also built light boards for the bussards using a combination of blinking and steady 3mm led's, but ran into problems with the resistors overheating and scrapped the whole idea. I'll use an extra set of the pl round boards that I aquired instead.


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## RossW (Jan 12, 2000)

John F said:


> I used the sayama motors in one of mine, they are the same diameter, 12mm, as the pl ones, but the shaft is shorter and smaller. I ca'd a piece of brass tube into the spinners and coupled it to the motor with small dia silicone tubing.
> I also built light boards for the bussards using a combination of blinking and steady 3mm led's, but ran into problems with the resistors overheating and scrapped the whole idea. I'll use an extra set of the pl round boards that I aquired instead.


Do you need the board to run your motors? If not, I have a few sets of these nacelle disks I created for my kit lying around (I had to order 10 at a time):



I have the specs for the LEDs & resistors so you can't go wrong. The big bulbs are the steady-on amber LEDs while the smaller ones are for 5 independently blinking coloured lights. I used PL's kit part when designing my PCB to align them with the holes.


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## John F (May 31, 2001)

thanks, RossW

Sent you a PM


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