# Larry's Performance R/C'S Racing



## D. Holcomb (Mar 3, 2002)

*Larry's will start racing carpet On-road again Friday's. The first race will be October 14th. *
*
The track will open up for practice on Friday Setember 30th.* 

Racing will start at 7. 
3 quals and a main. 
12th scale stock 
10th scale sedan stock and 19turn 
Mini's or other classes if we have enough. 
I will be the Friday race director. I personally invite you out for some fast paced fun! 
More details to come. 

Thanks, Dennis Holcomb.


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## Club Prez (Nov 7, 2003)

D. Holcomb said:


> *Larry's will start racing carpet On-road again Friday's. The first race will be October 14th. *
> *
> The track will open up for practice on Friday Setember 30th.*
> 
> ...


So I take it there will be new carpet this year since the track area is covered mini bikes, go carts, and dune buggys? You can see the oil and gas stains just walking around in between everything. I'm also guessing that Paragon is going to be legal this year as those same mini bikes, go carts, and dune buggys are started and ran in the track area.


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## D. Holcomb (Mar 3, 2002)

No Paragon but there will be racing.


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## Motor City Hamilton (Feb 5, 2002)

Dennis - I sent you a private message.


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## Club Prez (Nov 7, 2003)

Mr. Holcomb,

Obviously by the amount of mini bikes and other non RC garbage that is at Larry's he must be hurting at the bottom line. Please inform him that he can put all the other tracks out of business if he were to get new carpet and allow Paragon. Larry's has the best prices in town on any item but the track just sucks. There are many people that are under 30 mins from Larry's but drive a hour or more to race at Lansing or Toledo just because the track is that much nicer and they allow paragon which doesn't gum up and change minute to minute like TQ goo does. I'm sure many others would agree with my on this issue, you only have to look at the turnout at all the tracks to see I am right.

The Prez


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## vic0280 (Mar 7, 2005)

*larry's*

larry is not hurting bottom line, he just found another something something to create more revenue, and hell why not.

as for the track. i just talked to larry today and didnt mention the paragon, but he is also trying to figure out what racers would prefer.

he is committed to running a program there, but needs feedback personally. not rumors or the internet. if you love larry's store and because of his pricing buy stuff there, tell larry what ya think.


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## Club Prez (Nov 7, 2003)

vic0280 said:


> larry is not hurting bottom line, he just found another something something to create more revenue, and hell why not.
> 
> as for the track. i just talked to larry today and didnt mention the paragon, but he is also trying to figure out what racers would prefer.
> 
> he is committed to running a program there, but needs feedback personally. not rumors or the internet. if you love larry's store and because of his pricing buy stuff there, tell larry what ya think.


Mr. Vic,

If he is not hurting on the r/c racing end please tell me why I can not go in there and buy a current stock motor? All he has is Green Machine 3s. Just look around the hobby shop and look at the lack of R/C items. I can remember when he had a racer only hobby shop because each race night would have well over 50 entries and we would get out at 1am. There were even 2 stadium dates.

The racers have preferred Paragon. Plan and simple ask anyone. I have been racing R/C cars for over 20 years. Geronimos, Rider's Canton, M & W, JJs before and after the fire, been there done that. The only reason Larry stopped allowing Paragon is because Larry Rice said it was bad. And that was way back at the flat track JJs after the fire. 

And as for the feed back I can name numorous nights that everyone in the building has told Larry that we want Paragon as it doesn't destroy the tires and the carpet last longer. 

If you don't believe me ask Bobby and Ted Flack, Kevin Smith, the other Kevein Smith, Keith Hamilton, Dave Johnson, Ivan, Al, Mark Adams, Chris Mazola, Reily brothes, Marcus, Willie Thomas, Anthony brothers, Fred Baumgartner, Rich, Chang, Aaron Bomia, Derek Manchester, John Disher, Barry Z, Tim Stamper, Bob, Mac Keith the list goes on and on and these are all people that used to race at Larry's on a weekly basis but now drive a hour or more to race at Lansing or Toledo.

I hope Larry sees this or someone tells Larry all of this even though it has all been said before.

We have all heard the excuses before when it comes time to for Cleveland that Larry doesn't make a track to cater to only those. Well the fact is last year 20+ of people that used to race at Larry's went to Toledo because they allow Paragon. Yes Cleveland style tracks are a lil tighter then the 7 turn wonders that appear at Larry's but no one complains, they just drive the track presented and tune the car accordingly. After all isn't that the fun of it!?!?!? And you don't have to change the track every week. Let one track layout be down for a few weeks so traction can build up and racers can tune for a track and how the surface changes. 

I've also heard comments that Larry doesn't want to build tracks that often. Well I know of many individuals that would love to try to build a track. After all you don't have to change the whole layout.

I know this is alot of info and I hope it gets people talking as all of this info is nothing new. And if you don't believe it ask anyone.

Club Prez


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## BPSHADOW (May 5, 2003)

@ Club Prez,
I have been watching your posts, and without knowing who you are I would say you are a jackass!. The reason Larry doesnt allow Paragon is that it has ingredients in it known to cause cancer . This coupled with the fact that when it was allowed people were getting sick at the track and leaving early. To put it in perspective, is shaving a 10th off of your lap time really worth your life? If it is then you should look around. Dont get me wrong, I love this hobby, but there are more important things in life. And the reason that Larry sells all the stuff you are talking about because he can make money doing it. Remember he is in business to make money. And quite honestly he cant stay in business catering to a bunch of flakey, primadonna , toy car racers. I have been a customer of Larrys for 14 years, and he has always done right by me. If you want the latest and greatest stuff maybe you should go up and ask for it instead of smack talking Larry on the net. People are always taking shots at him and he really doesn't deserve it. He has gone out of his way to make a nice place to race and be a full service hobby shop and I think hes done a good job of it. If you dont like it, why dont you start a track/ hobby shop and see how long you stay in business, most of the tracks you listed arwe no longer in business, gee I wonder why


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## C5R-Racing (Sep 2, 2004)

Club Prez said:


> Mr. Holcomb,
> 
> Obviously by the amount of mini bikes and other non RC garbage that is at Larry's he must be hurting at the bottom line. Please inform him that he can put all the other tracks out of business if he were to get new carpet and allow Paragon. Larry's has the best prices in town on any item but the track just sucks. There are many people that are under 30 mins from Larry's but drive a hour or more to race at Lansing or Toledo just because the track is that much nicer and they allow paragon which doesn't gum up and change minute to minute like TQ goo does. I'm sure many others would agree with my on this issue, you only have to look at the turnout at all the tracks to see I am right.
> 
> The Prez


 *HERE WE GO AGAIN*!  
What RC track are you gonna say is the best now, it amazes me that whenever Larrys opens for racing some idiot hi-jacks the post to say how bad it is and how good this or that place is. Paragon is bad for your health (i have had numorous headaches from the stuff and it should be banned), if you like bathing in it than that is your choice. Turnouts are down because of the economy,so that is another false statement you made. (josh's and other tracks are not getting big numbers niether) and most tracks don't allow paragon anyway because of the smell and people complain. So get the facts and quit the Larry bashing til you have real complaints. The people you mention still race at Larrys and are friends of mine and don't complain about not being able to use paragon (so thats another false statement). 
*Get your facts together than complain* :thumbsup: 
*When it is all said and done your post post is meaningless* :wave:


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## vic0280 (Mar 7, 2005)

*larrys*

i must know ya prez as i have been around the hobby for over 15years and have raced at all the past tracks that you mentioned. however, thats the past and those tracks are gone. so they dont matter

first thing about the inventory at larry's, tell me or show me a store with more inventory. larry and his crew have always done me right. if i want something they get it, if i suggest a new product they get it. the lack of certain things is the nature of business. business slows down in many areas during the summer, so why have the inventory on hand. he always stocks up coming into fall. he still has more of anything than any other place(not bashing no one else, as i support other tracks when i can. but larry has been around for what, 17 years or more. how many other places can claim that? very few..

paragon, i would prefer as well, but it also gives me a headache. i cant use it at one track. oh well... causes cancer? no clue so i wont comment.

as for layouts, for a onroad, thats the easiest thing to do. move some boards thats it. funny thing is though and no disrespect to on-road guys, but most on-road guys i know, show up and leave. race off road, as i am sure you do or did and you see most of the fast guys or guys change the layout and thats not their business and lot more work. again no disrespect to onroaders but from observation they expect the track owner to do it all, offroaders help the track owners out. 

your other comment "i heard a comment" what is that? thats a rumor, thats what that is. you know its funny how political life is and when i get out of work, to enjoy a "hobby" for fun and to relax, i realize then and now how political life is... probably why i also have more fun racing off road, guys are more relaxed. and i am not bashing guys like dave j. or bobby flack or ted flack or barry z or joe trandell, mazzolla or most of the guys. its the select few that you have no matter you go that like too.... well i shut up now.

i race at larry's if there is a committed program, lansing, toledo and now mostly offroad. i am not a national contender as i cant afford to take time off work, and i consider myself pretty competitive, but i keep it what it is to me, a hobby. a fun hobby at most. the other guys that can afford the time off work and are national, thats awesome keep on keepin on


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## Barry Z (Mar 28, 2002)

I'm not sure why I feel the need to make a comment but all I want to say is that Larry has done right by me for the last 10 years. Good service, great staff, great prices and a place to race. Would I like more ? Yep, but it's HIS place. I don't feel that I have the right to tell him what he can and can not sell. I just want to race and I'm glad he's there.


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## Motor City Hamilton (Feb 5, 2002)

Why are you guys attacking Club Pres? The guy is entitled to his opinion, just as you are. I personally think he is partly right. I won't go as far as saying Larry's sucks as he did, but there is a quality difference from some other tracks. 

Club Pres - If Larry wants to ban Paragon, that's his right. There are good reasons to ban the old stuff and many tracks/series are doing the same thing. I've been to big races where everyone ran Jack the Gripper and the competition was just fine. 

Paragon is stated as the issue, but I think it goes deeper than that for most racers. I will race some at Larry's this year and will offer them a Carpet Racing League event, but I would prefer to race on tracks like Toledo and Lansing. Why? I don't like the drive, but the quality of the layouts and the carpet surface are better. Period. Straights are straight all the way down (i.e. 9 feet at the start, middle and end). Corners are taped down. No carpet rolls and plow discs holding down board on the track. Most infield corners are the same width (7 to 8 feet not 4 feet here, 10 feet there). And don't give me that load of crap about on-road guys not helping out. Greg Anthony and I offered to do layouts for Larry once a month. We volunteered our time to build him a quality track that would be good for beginners and pros. There's no need for 6 foot Cleveland style lanes. We can do it with 8' and still make it challenging. Greg and I even dropped 40 or more layouts for Larry's guys when Larry said that he'd prefer his employees build them. I think they used one of them.

If Larry was to make one improvement, I think the biggest would be to find a way to keep the carpet from getting so gummy. I don't run any tire compound at all when I race at Larry's. The track is already too sticky. I just clean them with motor spray and take it easy for the first lap. I don't think the answer is to let us all run Paragon. I think maybe he should stop selling TQ? Does Jack the Gripper gum up the tracks that only run it? What happened to Paragon making an oderless product, did that happen? What about rubber tires on the track? Find the cause of the gumminess and ban that, too. TQ is probably a big part of the current problem. It just doesn't evaporate. Larry could easily control this by not selling it and carrying something else. That's my thoughts.
Before anyone flames me for my opinions, I do plan to talk with Larry about my thoughts, all in the tone of, "if you want to make it better, here's what I would do." Larry's has been a great place and Larry is a good guy. I really miss the Friday night racing and Hooters nightcap.


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## Barry Z (Mar 28, 2002)

Oh Yea, how could I forget the professional announcer / racer director Dennis Holcomb .... absolutely the BEST !!!


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## C5R-Racing (Sep 2, 2004)

well MCH look at his post. not one of his post has something nice to say, he has nothing but neg. comments about rich chang, greg anthony and so on. so to say he has a right to say what he wants thats fine, but he big boy and can take care of himself.


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## vic0280 (Mar 7, 2005)

*larry's*

motor city,

i wasnt attatcking prez. as i am not you, we all have our opinions. i guess it just aggrevates me(my opinion) when someone comes on stating their opinion and kinda bashing a track, store and/or owner. 

how many times do we see this, with rc screwz, larry's, a couple off road tracks thati wont mention. but these guys are all trying to earn a living and give us a place to race. do i think that larry could do a better job, absolutely, but he does me right so i cant have too much complain. do i think that josh runs a better program, yes, absolutely. do i think that hobby hub in lansing does a great job yeah, would there be things i would like better at each track yeah. but i think the bottom line is that we go and race to have fun and hang out with each other. 

i wasnt attatcking you motor city or bringing the anthony brother's into either. too many great guys that run onroad to mention that probably and are more than willing to help out. all i was stating was my observation from racing offroad and onroad. that is that to me, it seems that more offroad guys are willing to pitch in as a whole with a track,than from what i have seen of onroad. i know there are plenty of on road guys that probably would help as you said, and i dont know you, maybe i do.


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## Xpressman (Dec 6, 2001)

Wow the carpet season must be getting close. Club Prez and anyone else that wants to know about Paragon and The Hexanes in motor spray go here:

http://home.sc.rr.com/mlufaso/rc/Paragon.html

This is part of Mike Lufaso's (factory Team Associated driver and chemistry major at Ohio State) that has the info on paragon and how it compares to other products.

If Paragon didn't have the heavy odor I'm sure Larry would allow it. Also note that motor spray is much worse then Paragon, the toxic gases given off by soldering flux, but it does have a heavy odor.

MCH with using TQ and Jack the Gripper there is no way to keep the carpet from gumming up. TQ and Jack do not evaporate like Paragon does so the carpet just keeps building up with it. I wouldn't mind seeing Paragon Traction Action be the only allowed compound. And it would be easy to do sniff testing to see if anyone is trying to cover up wintergreen.

Also as a side note TQ Blue contains methyl salicylate which is the same stuff that is in Paragon. Also the other TQ products contain octyl salicylate which is in the same family of chemicals so basically TQ is just as good for you as Paragon.

Wow I have to much time on my hands to know all of this. See you at the track.

Brian


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## DISH (Nov 8, 2002)

Once again, here we go with another round of 'faceless' comments on an internet chat. Club Prez, please do me a favor and keep what YOU feel are MY thoughts out of your posts. My time is more valuble than to reply any further...


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## BPSHADOW (May 5, 2003)

Not speaking for anyone but myself, I will tell you why I havent been racing at Larrys, and it has nothing to do with Larry or his staff.Dennis is a great race director and has been for a long time. The problem for me is foam tires, I feel that they work great for 12th scale, but the way that they are being run on sedans makes me not want to run sedan. Foam tires do not teach the newer drivers car control or racecraft. It is basically to the grip driving which to me is not racing , it is qualifying.What does this have to do with anything? IMO when you have the kind of grip that foams give there is no reason to lift. If I back off for a corner, chances are I am going to get driven through because the guy behind me has enough grip to go flat through the corner.Why would I back off? Because that is my style of driving, and quite frankly I cannot run flat out nonstop for 5 minutes or 8 for that matter. This is not everyone but I have left with a broken car on more than one occasion and not always of my own doing. As far as the other chemicals go, Brian is right, Partagon is not the only bad stuff, it is just the most noticable. If I were Larry, I would ban all traction additives and let the rubber laid down by the carsform the groove. It would require people to think about what they are doing and I think in the end the racing would be more exciting for everyone


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## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

All traction compounds have some odd ingredient in it that is not good. I used to totally love Jack the Gripper. I was able to do well at races with that stuff and I didn't have to deal with the Paragon smell nor the headache. 

I used that stuff for about a whole season 2 years ago. A bunch of you know why I stopped using it... it all happened one lovely race day at the Hobby Hub track in Lansing... when all of the muscles in my fingers in my left hand seized up... three separate times... and I couldn't even pull those fingers apart with my right hand... 

Anyways, i haven't been able to race much anywhere the last 2 years. But when I did, for me, all the tracks (Halo, Larry's, and Hobby Hub) are all about the same drive time and I primarily went where most of the folks were going since it is so much more fun to race with more folks.

-Rich


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## D. Holcomb (Mar 3, 2002)

Keith, YGM.

Thanks to all for props and suggestions. Here's a few things right now on the carpet season at Larrys.

The only permited tire additive will be Paragon Traction Action.

Rubber tires are permited so bring out those F-1 and mini coopers!

Also which day would be better for you to race at Larry's Friday or Sunday?

Thanks, Dennis.


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## Tim Stamper (May 22, 2002)

D. Holcomb said:


> Keith, YGM.
> 
> Thanks to all for props and suggestions. Here's a few things right now on the carpet season at Larrys.
> 
> ...


Friday looks best for me this season. Lookin to come out more often this year.

Just my .02

Tim


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## DaWrench (Sep 26, 2001)

Hi,

Gald to see Larry's is going to run this winter. Fridays are out as I work 2nd shift and I live about 180 miles away. we were hoping for Saturday but looks like thats out too. Sunday might work. we will make a few races but not as many as would like. 

Thanks


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## vic0280 (Mar 7, 2005)

also on the other site rcxxx.com, a new website with most local guys.

i have started a poll. go there and vote for the day you prefer.


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## Xpressman (Dec 6, 2001)

D. Holcomb said:


> Keith, YGM.
> 
> Thanks to all for props and suggestions. Here's a few things right now on the carpet season at Larrys.
> 
> ...


Sounds good about the traction compound.

The thing I always liked about racing on friday was it allowed me to race at Larry's on friday and then the possibility of going to another track on sat or sunday or coming back to Larry's. 

The track in Fort Wayne, IN actually runs a series with the F1 cars on thr carpet with lil modifications and they do a driver and team points championship. They also are running touring cars with rubber tires, I believe they are using a treaded tire as the "spec" tire and only 2 door GT type bodies. Just a thought for those of you looking for another class to run. I'm sure as always if you can get 3 together they'll run it.

Brian


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## Greg Anthony (Sep 10, 2002)

vic0280 said:


> .


Jay, what class/classes you going to run this winter? stock 19T or Mod?


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## D. Holcomb (Mar 3, 2002)

Keith, you have mail.


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## vic0280 (Mar 7, 2005)

*on road*

greg, 

as soon as i figure out what car to get, again. I will probably do 19t and dabble in some mod to see if i can hang with y'all. 

jay


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## Motor City Hamilton (Feb 5, 2002)

Friday's will be easier for me.


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## Fred B (Sep 26, 2001)

Yipeee!

Another fine internet thread bashing a local track.

If Larry wants to park disgruntled circus bears on the track and let them "drop the deuce" it's his call. He knows what's best for his business.

The traction compound used doesn't make or break a track for me. I personally don't like TQ blue because it gumms up but once a bigger group of guys started running Traction Action last year the carpet was 100% better.

Even with the small track, tight pits and non RC stuff at Larry's it's still one of the best run racing programs around. I'll be heading down to run every once in a while to run as time permits this year.


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## DISH (Nov 8, 2002)

'Drop the Deuce' ..now there's one I have NEVER heard! You crack me up Fred.


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## BIGG-K (Sep 2, 2002)

Heah Prez, theres only one Kevin Smith, and he has'nt been racing at Larrys because of the dune buggies. I could care less about what traction compound we run cause I usually suck anyway. But you can bet the first sign of racing at Larrys I'll be one of the first ones there. Like just about everyone else said, Larry, Dennis, and staff have all been good to me. Just my 3 cents. And by the way, who are you mask man???


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## C5R-Racing (Sep 2, 2004)

hey kevin! i have some truck bodies for you. i'll get them them to you when i am on that side of town next.


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## BIGG-K (Sep 2, 2002)

Ok Chris thanks because its almost time for stadium racing. By the way I suck at that too.


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