# li-poly help



## DARKSCOPE001 (Jun 14, 2006)

Hey guys I already took the brushless plunge and now im about to do the lipoly plunge too. So a buddy of mine recomended polyquest batteries to me. So I was looking at there twenty series of batteries. and it looked realy cool only about 30 more than a good set of promatch batteries. less if you buy the race cells. but I dont wana pay the extra money if the lifespan isnt realy that great. So can someone tell me what the avarage life expectancy is on a lipoly battery if properly cared for? 

THANKS GUYS
Sean Scott


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## RPM (Dec 20, 2004)

DARKSCOPE001 said:


> So can someone tell me what the avarage life expectancy is on a lipoly battery if properly cared for?
> 
> THANKS GUYS
> Sean Scott


Three years I was told but been using my pack from MaxAmps (racing brushless sprint car) for 8 months now and is strong as ever!


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## gezer2u (Sep 25, 2001)

Dark- What type of car and do you race?


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## DARKSCOPE001 (Jun 14, 2006)

yes gezer2u I do race and Its a 2wd buggy. you must not remember me when i frequented these forums allot. but I am no newbie to racing Im just a guy looking for a long term solution to the ever prevolant problem of battery replacement so any info you can give me is much appreciated

THANKS
Sean Scott


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## gezer2u (Sep 25, 2001)

Hey Sean, I didn't remember you had the oo1 at the end of your screen name. Sorry about that.  

I would say to ask the track where you race what type of battery they allow. They probably don't have a problem with Lipo because you guy's run 6 cells all ready. The Polyquest batteries don't put out the same power as other brands. I think I would stay away from them. Going to lipo will end your need to replace packs. We have been using them (Orion 3200) about 5 months and the performence is still like new. Gary McAlister has been using the same pack for over 2 years, I believe. 

Go Lipo and never look back!


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## DARKSCOPE001 (Jun 14, 2006)

ok thanks for the imput gezer as always your a big help. lol i knew you would remember me. but ok so I was a but wary of the polyquest batteries to begin with. so I looked at the orion/peak li-po batteries and I like them alot because they have the protective plastic case. but the price tag scares me off. But if they pay them selves off i suppose i dont mind paying the extra. but I will contact my track asap so that I can know if they will let me run li-po I sure hope they will because I want a cheaper alternative because Im trying to be competitive on a bit of a budget. Yes I do know that Im paying alot but I do believe that the brushless li-po system will pay itself off rather quickly. so any recomendations you can give me would be much appreceated

THANKS 
Sean Scott 

P.S. I was wondering what batteries in paticular you recomend because I know nothing about them. I was looking at these http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXMDR8&P=SM but any recomendations are always welcome.


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## 7734otdortoh (Nov 23, 2004)

Darkscope001

A Main Hobbies have the Orion Lipo Carbon 3200 batteries for just $10 more than the the Apogee from Tower that you posted. :woohoo: 
http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_info.php/cPath/1_221_224/products_id/11177


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## kevinm (Jan 16, 2002)

I strongly suggest avoiding the Apogee right now. Both of mine are going to be sent back due to swelling, and every one I've seen lately is doing it, too. They still RUN fine, but they've grown 4-5mm thicker as the racing season progressed. They've been good about the warranty, but.....?? Hopefully they'll figure out the cause and correct it, because the "safer chemistry" was what sold me on them to start with.

Most of the touring car racers in Michigan have switched to LiPo, either the Orion or MaxAmps. I personally haven't seen a problem with either brand, and most of us run the same pack in all 3 heats and the main. Most of the modified racers are using MaxAmps 5000's or 6000's. My MaxAmps 6000 has got at least 32 races on it running a Novak 5.5 brushless and the car still flies. (Especially when the car ahead of me stops 10 feet early, but that's another story...) You just have to decide how much a hard plastic case means to you, and how many mAh you need. (Bigger IS better)

Note: No free T-shirts were harmed (or worn) in the making of this post.


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## DARKSCOPE001 (Jun 14, 2006)

thank you all very much for you input. I was looking at the max amp packs they are cheaper than apogee right now anyways. but I was wondering Is the 3 year / 300 cycle guarantee worth it? because that does seem pretty cool but thats awfly pricey. so I may or may not get it. 

THANKS GUYS
Sean Scott


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## gezer2u (Sep 25, 2001)

If you don't practice a lot, then 1 pack would do you. You can charge them in about 30- 40 minutes. What charger do you have or are you going to buy? This is a great charger. It charges up to 10 amps. You can safely charge the Orion at 2c (6.4amps). If you are running B/L and lipo, then you won't need the motor run and NiMh capabilities of say the Ice charger. 

Here is a shop that has the Orion. He is a sponcer of Hobbytalk too!


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## gezer2u (Sep 25, 2001)

kevinm said:


> Note: No free T-shirts were harmed (or worn) in the making of this post.



Now that's funny right there!!


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## DARKSCOPE001 (Jun 14, 2006)

thanks again everyone. but I was wondering geezer you recomended the scorpion charger. and you also said that I could get away with 2 packs but I do practice a little. not a whole ton. if i do practice a ton the only exception is if i go up for practice night. but mainly i just run a few laps or so before racing starts just to get a feel for the car. But If i could get away with 2 or so packs what two would you chose? mah wise that is. I was thinking somewhere in the neghborhood of 4000-5000 but im not sure yet. also to addres the charger problem. Yes its true I did make the brushless plunge and with the purchess of my lipoly batteries i will no longer be needing ni-mh batteries. but I do alot of motor tuning and cutting for my friends so It woud be nice to have the motor run in feature. so I think im gona go ahead and get the ice. as always any suggestions you have to offer is much appreceated

THANKS 
Sean Scott


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## gezer2u (Sep 25, 2001)

Sean,

I posted 1 pack if you don't practice a lot on race day. On practice nights, you would probable want 2. I would guess that you have to make a min. weight, so you could go with the Orion 4800. They are quite a lot more then the 3200's. I have read that the offroad guy's need to add weight to get their car balanced. Like 3-4 oz I think. So the weight of the 4800 orion might be better. The extra runtime would be nice on practice nights too. The Ice is a good charger, it charges at 1c (3.2amps)though. I think it would take about 45 minutes to charge the 4800. I'm kinda guessing, I haven't had any experience with the 4800. I think that is what I read someplace. Maybe one of the MaxAmps guy's could answer that.


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## DARKSCOPE001 (Jun 14, 2006)

ok so I think i want one of the max amps packs with the 300 cycle warantee i think lol Idk tho. this is the one i was looking at http://www.maxamps.com/products.php?cat=25 so tell me if that will be good for rc buggy racing. because I know geezer has recomended the team orion platnam pack quite a few times. but the price tag on that realy scares me off. And I would rather run under weight and add lots of chassis weight anyways lol I think. but anyways any info is always great

THANKS 
Sean Scott


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## DARKSCOPE001 (Jun 14, 2006)

ok so finaly I have settled on the battery of choice. I think that I am going to go with the team orion 3200 carbon pack. now I have a question or two about charging it. ok So I have found the charger I want. the orion avionics. and to go with it I want a cel balancer. I have limited that down to two choices, The team orion stability balancing system http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXNNA5&P=SM shown here. Now my other choice is the great planes equinox http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXMGS7&P=ML . they show a striking resemblance to each other dont they? lol So my assumption is that they are basicaly the same balancer one just makreted by orion and one by great planes. Now then boath the equinox and the orion balancer will need to have there adapters modded to work with the carbon pack http://press.teamorion.com/press/cliff/lipo/balancingInstr.jpg instructions for the mod shown here. So I was just wondering If any of you have done this mod or if anyone knows if this is possible to do. I have a good feeling about it but I am unsure. I will contact great planes and see if maby they will tell me how to do it. one more question Do you think its worth getting the lipo sack? because I talked to one my buddys who flys airplanes and he told me that they charge there lipos in an ammo box filled with sand. and I found an ammo box at a local army surpluss store for about 6 dolars. So I was wondering If I should do this. Or should Just break down and get the lipo sack wich at tower is only 23 dolars. so I am unsure. So any advice or oppinions you guys have is always appreceated 

THANKS
Sean Scott


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## gndprx (Aug 30, 2006)

Make sure you read the 3/300 warranty info on the MaxAmps packs before commiting to it. There are a few conditions where they will not honor that warranty (i.e. not balancing them *every* charge) but when they are in good shape they perform well.

The orion/peak packs are more expensive but they are probably the safer packs right now for LiPo. I'm sad to hear the LiMn (Apogee) packs are having problems. I'd like to see that technology move foward since they are theoretically a safer chemistry.

If you don't want to dump the money for 2 LiPo packs, you can always have some old 6-cell packs around for practice. You really won't notice a huge difference in a buggy between the lipo and sub-c execpt for run time. Off-road isn't as picky as on-road and oval when it comes to cell types.

As for charge times, when charging at 1C a typical LiPo will take approximately 1 hour regardless of the capacity. 3.2A for a 3200 or 8A for an 8K will both fill the pack in one hour from a 6v low charge. Also if your speed control doesn't have a built in LiPo cutoff, you will need one of these as well. Most brushless ESC's have this these days though.


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## gndprx (Aug 30, 2006)

Regarding the balancer, most of the guys around here use the astroflight blinky. http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXMRZ9&P=7

You'll want to make sure it will match up with your balance leads. I'm sure there's nothing wrong with either of the others that you posted though.


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## brian0525 (Jan 17, 2005)

With the Orion carbon pack you don't really need a balancer. You can balance the cells by charging each cell seperate about once a race day and you should be set. Orion says it isn't needed at all but I think once race day will help the life and performance.


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## 2Groovy4U (Nov 6, 2004)

Orion 3200 carbon pack with 12x2 in mod buggy used around 1700MAH in 5 min race. Or get the 4800MAH from Orion. I would stick with a lipo with a hard case around it just for safety. I have been running my 3200 in my pancar, bk2 for 10 moths now same pack. Buy 1 pack and just run it as much as you want.


Raymond


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## kcobra (Dec 3, 2002)

I'm a bit confused on lipo balancers. Will an external balancer like the Orion or ElectiFly work with any lipo charger? I have the Multiplex charger I would like to use.


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## DARKSCOPE001 (Jun 14, 2006)

to answer your question kcobra yes and no. if it is a charger that just has a positive and a negative terminal then yes. but if it is a balancer charger that charges each cell individualy no. because the balancer is already built in. but chargers like the ice, triton, orion avionics and similar chargers can be used with an external balancer. 

Now on to what I origionaly came in to say. I just recieved an e mail from joe pillars from team orion. and he has told me that the avionics sbs and the great planes equinox are the same balancer. so this means that the mod can be done. but I think when I do it I am going to add longer charge leads to the balancer so that It can reach down into my liposack or other charging container. and I will be taking step by step photos of the mod with more compleate instructions than orion if anyone is interested. 

THANKS GUYS
Sean Scott


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## ta_man (Apr 10, 2005)

*Another LiPo newbie question*

Are there balancers that can be used separate from a charger, or do you always have to have a charger connected to the balancer which is then connected to the pack?


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## DARKSCOPE001 (Jun 14, 2006)

ta man. many of the balancers are designed to be used in boath maners. to balance while charging and to blalance by applying a small discharge voltage to blance boath cells. the great planes equinox and the orion sbs boath work in this manner. and if memory serves me right the astroflight blinkey works souly by applying a small discharge voltage and it is never connected to the charger. but many of the balancers dont need chargers to quick balance (balancing without charger) so just check a few out and read up on them. 

HOPE THIS HELPS
Sean Scott


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## kevinm (Jan 16, 2002)

Apogee update: I sent both of my Apogee 3800 packs back in after they swelled 5-6mm. They sent me 2 new packs, which appear to be built slightly differently. It's probably just a construction difference, but the thickness is just under 22mm and the length has grown a bit to 145mm. I ran them both 3 times this weekend with a Novak 13.5 motor. Both ran well and (so far) their dimensions haven't changed. Hopefully they've fixed whatever problem they had.


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## DARKSCOPE001 (Jun 14, 2006)

hmmmmm. this is very disturbing "growing cells" i suppose if they just swell a little before they stop and this does not effect performance then it is just something we will have to get used to and it will be the wave of the future. but for right now im going with a 2 carbon packs from orion because its cheaper to buy 2 of those than 4nimh and the last longer. so its cheaper long and short term.


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## kevinm (Jan 16, 2002)

Clarification: When I said the length had "grown a bit", I meant compared to the old packs. They didn't get bigger after running them.


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## fox2007 (Oct 7, 2007)

If I had a Orion 4800 pack running a 12T or bushless setup in a T4 truck what kind of runtimes could I expect?


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## wade (Mar 7, 2002)

Question for the Lipo Guru's 
T-4 setup dirt oval, 10.5 BL motor
What's the difference between a Max-Amps 6000 7.4 2c and a Orion 3200 7.4 2c
On the track, 4 minute race.


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## fla-racer57 (Feb 4, 2006)

DARKSCOPE001

The guys that run offroad down here in Tampa at the Lakepark track
Like the Kokam lipo packs. better voltage threw out the run

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXNWV9&P=SM

Wade the maxamp 6000 and the orion 3800 the difference is just run time


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## gezer2u (Sep 25, 2001)

Also, the weight of the pack, no hard case (not that big a deal in offroad) and with the Orion, you know who manufactured the cell.
I have heard that with more mah, the pack wouldn't drop (voltage) as much under high loads (amp's). If you are concerned about this, get the 4800 pack from Orion. The Maxamp 6000 pack is used by the elect. guy's to race with Nitro guy's. Probably over kill for you application.


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