# Refit Lighting



## Trekfreak

*1/350 Refit help!*

I pre-ordered the big Enterprise model months ago and I can't wait for it to finally come. I however am debating with myself whether or not I should make this big E model my first attempt at lighting. If I choose to wire it up for lighting, can anyone make recommendations such as websites and/or advice?


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## dsscse

Try http://www.starshipmodeler.com/tech/techmain.htm and select lighting there are pieces on LEDs and grain of wheet globes the pros and cons,There is also to concider light sheet, CCfluros, plastic or glass fibre optics, even reflective tape! you could do a partial space dock with sporlights or work pods (their real job would be to throw via LED high intencity white light on the 1701) as part of a diarama. Also because the PL refit is going to probably your greatest and largest project so far, try lighting up another model eg 1701-D or the ertl 1701-A/refit to get a feel for it and practice.....Good luck chap


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## jwrjr

You might want to try something easier for a first project. Make it something expendable. No offense of any sort intended. The refit is a big project, and a mistake would be painful.


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## John P

I'll be building my first one without lighting, just to get one done. But I definitely want to light one, even though i have NO idea how to do it, just because it's way too big to NOT light.


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## dsscse

Yes, it screams light me!


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## Trek Ace

This kit begs for lighting.

Have fun with it and make it a good learning experience.


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## Steven Coffey

John P said:


> I'll be building my first one without lighting, just to get one done. But I definitely want to light one, even though i have NO idea how to do it, just because it's way too big to NOT light.


John I am very sure you can light the refit ,it will take some work but judging from what I have seen of your models it will not be a big deal!When I started to do wiring I bought some LEDs and some resistors and a power supply and I practiced wiring them up .I blew a few LEDs ,but I learned how to get it right. I think the biggest thing will be laying out the wiring harness for this beast !If and when I get my refit I will post images of my wiring layout and explain things as I go along .I think that we should make the refit a group build ,each of us explaining as we go our techniques .This maybe a good way to help out newer builders to make an excellent Refit model. I know I could use help with my painting techniques !


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## ClubTepes

Trekfreak said:


> I pre-ordered the big Enterprise model months ago and I can't wait for it to finally come. I however am debating with myself whether or not I should make this big E model my first attempt at lighting. If I choose to wire it up for lighting, can anyone make recommendations such as websites and/or advice?


Build one first 'non-lit' so you can get a feel for the kit. Then you'll get a better idea as to what pit-falls await you. Then plan out your lighting.


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## John P

Steven Coffey said:


> John I am very sure you can light the refit ,it will take some work but judging from what I have seen of your models it will not be a big deal!


 Thanks for the vote of confidence, but wiring has always been Greek to me. Once you get into resistors and power supplies and such - anything beyond taping a couple of wires to a battery - I'm _completely _lost. It'll take quite a bit of edjumication for me to learn how.


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## Trek Ace

Make sure you clean it off thoroughly afterward.


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## cinc2020

*No worries*

I work for a company filled with fellow space geeks.  Among them are electrical engineers, and one of them agreed to provide a detailed wiring diagram following my specifications. Upon completion, I will scan and post.


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## JGG1701

O.K. :thumbsup: 
Don't forget.


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## jwrjr

I would think that the wiring for the refit would be fairly simple - just one heck of a lot of it. The only lights to animate would be the strobes, nav flashers, and photon torpedoes.


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## Opus Penguin

I have a circuit board for the navs and strobe, but my puzzlement will be how to light all the windows with as few LED or light bulbs as possible. I want mine to look like it does in STTMP with flood lights and everything. I am hoping to keep it as compartmentalized as possible. Just haven't figured it all out yet.


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## kahless72

If you don't want to use LEDs or Light Bulbs, thre are other options. there is Neon(high heat though), Flourscents(Med heat) or ElectroEluminscent film(Noth the best lighiting but liltle heat). LEDs are good, but if you get alot of the higher end LEDs it does get expensive. 

I've got preorders all around Phoenix, AZ but I hope I can buy them when they come out. If they come out. But the longer we wait, the better the model will be in achieving Perfection and satisfaction. 

Like what JWRJR says, wiring this ship wouldn't be that hard. Just ALOT of wire.


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## spe130

I've heard that if you stick an LED in a glob of clear epoxy, the expoxy will act like a light pipe and spread the LED's light throughout the epoxy glob. I have yet to test this, but it could be an easy way to use one LED for each bank of windows.


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## JGG1701

I've heard that using "reflective tape" works !  
It just bounces back to the light source. :thumbsup:


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## John P

Photoshop.


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## DL Matthys

It's the most lighting friendly Trek kit ever made that I have seen...so far.
Even the little holes are at the right diamitter to accomidate your 3mm LEDs.
Areas that are lit are taken care of by a large amonnt of clear cast parts. This will be fun!

DLM


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## Trekfreak

WOW! A lot of replies! A lot of ideas! But the idea of reflective tape does sound like a great idea when it comes to windows and warp nacelles. But the hard part will be lighting up the registry names and numbers, deflector dish and other lit areas on the ship. I'm not an electrician or a master model builder(this will be my first lit model!) so right now I'm looking for inexpensive and easy ways to do this.

"Maybe it's something we can transplant."
- Capt. Terrell


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## woozle

What I'm thinking of trying is using UV LEDs to illuminate white areas, which would then glow.


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## Steven Coffey

I am thinking of adapting some cold cathode lights for my warp engines .I use them in my computer and they don't seem to put off any heat. It may just be a matter of fit that keeps me from using them.


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## jwrjr

The CCFLs run a little warm. But, be careful mounting the power supply. I don't think that it gets hot enough to melt plastic, but best not to find out the hard way.


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## GLU Sniffah

^ A person can always place the power supply outside the ship...say....in some kind of display base other than what will be supplied.( Maybe even in the stock base...I dunno. ) Run the supply wires from that location into the Enterprise and find a creative way of concealing them. Or, better yet, incorporate a power jack ( Female end ) into the hull of the ship allowing for disconnect. 

Judging by the size of the thing, lighting should be much easier than with smaller scales!

Optical fiber is still a valid alternative for lighting multiple portholes with very few light sources. 

I'm thinking of using lightsheet to illuminate the hangar deck and cargo deck. 

Areas needing illumination:

RCS thrusters. ( These are found on the primary hull, warp nacelles and in the Nav Deflector housing. )

Impulse Engines and Deflection Crystal. ( Also Magnification crystals above each Bussard collector on warp nacelles. )

Nav deflector.

Inboard field grilles on nacelles.

Illumination floods on Command superstructure, Dorsal, secondary hull and warp nacelles.

Formation lights.

Running lights.

Hangar, Cargo and Arboretum decks.

Portholes.

Photorp launchers in dorsal.

Illumination floods in all docking ports. ( small key lights which illuminate the airlock doors. )

Lower sensor dome array. ( Not the dome itself, obviously...just the sensors above the dome which also includes a floodlight forward, or to port and starboard if the Enterprise leaving spacedock is being modeled. )

Hangar deck observation gallery ( red lights on the fantail above the doors. ), and the small panels to either side of the hangar doors which glow blue. 

Funnest part will be to figure out power requirements for all components and the values for any bias resistors used for LED's, routing of the wires, and the order in which it all gets put together!


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## Steven Coffey

jwrjr said:


> The CCFLs run a little warm. But, be careful mounting the power supply. I don't think that it gets hot enough to melt plastic, but best not to find out the hard way.


I was going to put the power supply in the base .I am going to just extend the wires to run up the stand and the pylons .But hey if you are planning a lighting system for this beast I may be interested! It would leave me more time to get the paint right!


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## jwrjr

Putting the power supply in the base should work. To state the fairly obyious, those ccfl lines will be running high voltage. Make sure that they are well insulated.
I've already got the nav flasher + strobe control, and the photon torpedo control already designed and tested. They are available. I probably will not put out a full kit. The time it would take to put wires on all of those lights would make it too expensive. If somebody wants a lights parts package with or without the modules, we can likely work something out.


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## omnimodel

For those of you who want to use LEDs, I've found this calculator invaluable:

http://www.bit-tech.net/article/68/

Remember, make sure you have enough of a power supply to drive the LEDs. For example, you could use a 1000 Ma PS to light 40 bulbs drawing 25 Ma a piece...


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## jwrjr

I rarely run leds at 25ma. I normally run at 10 - 15 ma, and even less for lighting windows. They are windows, not searchlights.


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## TrekFX

jwrjr said:


> I rarely run leds at 25ma. I normally run at 10 - 15 ma, and even less for lighting windows. They are windows, not searchlights.


I've been preaching this for years, but nobody seems to care.

"It's not BRIGHT enough. I can't see it at NOON."


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## omnimodel

TrekFX said:


> I've been preaching this for years, but nobody seems to care.
> 
> "It's not BRIGHT enough. I can't see it at NOON."


I couldn't agree more, particularly given the cost of a 1000 Ma converter. I just threw the 25Ma figure out because people were talking CCFLs in the nacelles. Since those always seemed like the ultimate in overkill, I was figuring people wanted it retina-scorching bright.


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## jwrjr

I found a 12v. 4000ma power supply on Ebay. Only paid $10 for it. I normally budget about 500 ma for a pair of CCFLs. Hasn't led me wrong yet.


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## woof359

*lazy*

what can i say about lighting, i hate to get up turn them on, watch it for a bit then get up and turn it off, wish some one wood invent a remote on/off switch for LED circuts


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## jwrjr

What exactly are you looking for? Something like a TV remote to turn the thing on and off? One problem that I can see - where would you put the sensor to be inconspicuous?


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## Steven Coffey

woof359 said:


> what can i say about lighting, i hate to get up turn them on, watch it for a bit then get up and turn it off, wish some one wood invent a remote on/off switch for LED circuts


I know of something that may help you out !There is a remote that turns on lamps,it has a part that plugs into the wall and another that looks like a light switch .you may be able to find one at your local home improvement store .I use one on my old AMT Refit.I don't know the name of the product but it can be found in the electrical and lighting dept. :thumbsup:


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## Edge

Clap-on...Clap-off...Clap-on...Clap-off...the Clapper!

Come on, someone was going to do it, right?

Edge


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## omnimodel

I've also seen infrared LED combos that send and receive, so it is possible to set up a remote... I just have no idea how to wire them


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## kit-junkie

How American... Remote control... :freak: :lol: How about using laser pointers for weapon beams?


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## tripdeer

^^ Just make sure the room is smokey, or you won't be able to see the actual beam! Actually, that'd be pretty cool.... maybe you're on to something!  

Dan


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## kit-junkie

already drew it up and sent it in for a patent...  Everybody here owns a fog machine, right?


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## dsscse

kit-junkie said:


> How American... Remote control... :freak: :lol: How about using laser pointers for weapon beams?


I did 2 on the E-D only one still works! and yes unless you have smokers visiting you just get a wee red dot on the table and one halfway up the wall  (I didn't think it through)


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## bkoski

*Lighting Kit planned by VoodooFX.com*

Hi everybody:
Had to join in the discussions. I've been reading these threads for a few weeks and I'm just as excited as everybody about this new Enterprise refit. Had to join in. When I learned of its imminent arrival early last year I contemplated how I was going to build it, light it, paint it. Kind of sad, though, I had all the modification kits and improved decals and a smoothie Enterprise, and then found out this was coming. I'm sure that's a repeat story with many of you. Glad to hear aztec templates are included. However, the lighting still has me worried, BUT, I found a site and in email conversations with the company have learned that they are planning to create a complex lighting kit for the Big E (they were just waiting for it to release to work it all out). They currently don't have any information within the site regarding this intention, but the site is:
http://www.voodoofx.com/


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## jwrjr

They are discussing refit lighting in the thread "something that I've been working on" in the PL forum.


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## Ignatz

Would it be too difficult to do all the lighting with LEDs? I'm thinking of reserving the CCFLs for the warp engines--but as I recall, the purple-blue glow in TMP wasn't particularly bright either. I'd like to have the interior pieces in the secondary hull, I know that'll eat up a lot of space.


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## Opus Penguin

bkoski said:


> Hi everybody:
> Had to join in the discussions. I've been reading these threads for a few weeks and I'm just as excited as everybody about this new Enterprise refit. Had to join in. When I learned of its imminent arrival early last year I contemplated how I was going to build it, light it, paint it. Kind of sad, though, I had all the modification kits and improved decals and a smoothie Enterprise, and then found out this was coming. I'm sure that's a repeat story with many of you. Glad to hear aztec templates are included. However, the lighting still has me worried, BUT, I found a site and in email conversations with the company have learned that they are planning to create a complex lighting kit for the Big E (they were just waiting for it to release to work it all out). They currently don't have any information within the site regarding this intention, but the site is:
> http://www.voodoofx.com/


That would be great except they have had the NX-01 lighting kit in the works for the past year, and it still is not close to being released. I want to be alive to enjoy the lighting on the refit so I am not holding my breath on the Voodoo sight. I will probably do the lighting myself.


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## bkoski

Thanks for the heads up on the likely delay from VoodooFX.


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## Sword of Whedon

Delay isn't quite the word  Seriously


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## kylwell

DL Matthys said:


> It's the most lighting friendly Trek kit ever made that I have seen...so far.
> Even the little holes are at the right diamitter to accomidate your 3mm LEDs.
> Areas that are lit are taken care of by a large amonnt of clear cast parts. This will be fun!
> 
> DLM


So...Don....when are you producing a lighting kit?

please?

with CA on top?


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## omnimodel

Ignatz said:


> Would it be too difficult to do all the lighting with LEDs? I'm thinking of reserving the CCFLs for the warp engines--but as I recall, the purple-blue glow in TMP wasn't particularly bright either. I'd like to have the interior pieces in the secondary hull, I know that'll eat up a lot of space.



LEDs are probably the easiest and most durable option. As you surmised, the CCFLs will probably be WAY too bright for the effect seen on film (although it would look great on a DS9 era refit from the Dominion Wars). Remember, all that really shows on the studio model is just the 5 plasma lines. 

On my 22" version, I lined the insides of the nacelles with mylar after opaquing them. The, I placed a 3000 mcd blue LED at either end of the opening, angled at about 30 degrees toward the opposite wall. It provides a nice uniform light across the plasma grids, and the ambient light filters nicely up to the intercooler crystal.

Tye other added bonus is that LEDs will last pretty much indefinitely (as long as they are hooked up to the appropriate resistors), use less power, and don't require a fancy converter that needs to be hidden on board.


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## jgoldsack

One could also try lightsheet, or similar stuff from nightlaunch for the nacelles. I used the nightlaunch stuff in my (nearly done) Enterprise D, and it worked out quite well, and is quite affordable too.


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## Disillusionist

Speaking from experience, having lit my 80% finished Deboer Enterprise :freak: , cold cathodes are an excellent option for lighting the interior spaces of the ship. They have a nice white glow, and run relatively cool They will also work well in the nacelles, but one might wish to consider using some sort of filter to dim them down a bit. LED's work nicely for strobe and nav lights, and the ultra-bright 3mm LED's make excellent spotlights. Have fun, however you choose to do it!

Matt


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## jwrjr

I used CCFLs for my warp engines. The power inverter is the only part that gets noticeably warm.
I prefer long life (10,000 hour) light bulbs for my strobes. To me they just look better.


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## rhysweatherley

For those looking into infrared remote control, you might be interested in the following article in Silicon Chip Australia magazine:

http://www.siliconchip.com.au/cms/A_30626/article.html

It describes a 10-channel infrared gadget that can be controlled by an ordinary TV remote, allowing different functions to be assigned to the 0-9 buttons. Unfortunately, my local electronics supplier has stopped selling the kits, but the circuit layouts and what-not are all there for EE-minded folks.

I'm currently working on a variation of this circuit that can handle more than just the 0-9 buttons, by sending keycodes to another PIC via a serial link for translation into light effects. It will also have support for power On/Off. "Press 4 to fire torpedoes Captain!". I need get the components and do some testing, but I should have the details in a few days if anyone is interested. E-mail me at [email protected] if you are.


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## Raist3001

*Cheaper*



jgoldsack said:


> One could also try lightsheet, or similar stuff from nightlaunch for the nacelles. I used the nightlaunch stuff in my (nearly done) Enterprise D, and it worked out quite well, and is quite affordable too.


Nightlaunch's product in my opinion is better than lightsheet and much cheaper. PLUS you get more product for the price you pay.


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## chunkeymonkey

jwrjr said:


> I used CCFLs for my warp engines. The power inverter is the only part that gets noticeably warm.
> I prefer long life (10,000 hour) light bulbs for my strobes. To me they just look better.


i've got my 12" dual ccfl kit on order and the PL kit arrived today.

i have white led's in 3mm, 5mm and 10mm, between 8000 and 11000 mcd with resitors to run on 9-12v dc.

how many led's did it take you to light the saucer and how many in the engineering hull ??

do you use the same power supply for everything, ie 12v dc supply for the led's and ccfl's?? this seems the logical solution to me, just have'nt tried it yet.


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## jwrjr

81 leds in the saucer (includes impulse engines and running lights. 75 leds in the engineering hull. I used just one power supply for the lot. I figure that this is safe because the strobes and flashers make up a small fraction of the total number of lights. I used a 12 v. 4 amp supply (which I figure is about twice as much as actually used). I found that supply on Ebay for $10. I don't know what it was originally used for.


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## chunkeymonkey

lol, thats a lot of led's dude.

what size did you use ?

i take you wired them in parallel and grouped them to the power ?


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## ThomasModels

Here is a list of parts and placement diagram. the part numbers are from eLED.com.
There are other vendors online and I foulnd another that is a bit cheaper.

http://www.thomasmodels.com/refitbuild/lightingAmini.jpg


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## Steven Coffey

ThomasModels said:


> Here is a list of parts and placement diagram. the part numbers are from eLED.com.
> There are other vendors online and I foulnd another that is a bit cheaper.
> 
> http://www.thomasmodels.com/refitbuild/lightingAmini.jpg


Thanks Thomas for the lighting diagram ! :thumbsup:


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## jwrjr

Yes, that's a lot of leds, mostly 3mm (mostly white). What I did was to install the leds on each model part and wire them together into a minimum number of power leads. Then I assemble the parts and connect the wires together. The last panel that I put on was the bottom of the engineering hull. This was a little tricky as the engineering hll is strong enough when fully assembled, but not so strong until then.


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## Sword of Whedon

OK, thanks to thomas we have the lighting diagram. How about wiring and resistors and all that for the electrically impaired?


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## omnimodel

Sword of Whedon said:


> OK, thanks to thomas we have the lighting diagram. How about wiring and resistors and all that for the electrically impaired?


I swear by this calculator:

http://www.bit-tech.net/article/68/

Your LED supplier should tell you the forward voltage when you buy the bulbs, but a general rule of thumb is 3.8v for white and blue LEDs, 2.2v for red, green, and yellow. 

As far as the current, you probably never want to exceed 25 mA... but again, your supplier should be able to give you the maximum rated current. I'd recommend using different resistors to give you an output of 5, 10, 15, 20, and 25 mA. This will allow you to choose an intensity you're comfortable with.

Finally, I'd recommend placing the resistors on the positive side (the longer of the two leads). Also, use a resistor for each LED, rather than just a single one on the supply line.

When choosing a power supply, total up the mA values of the LEDs. For example, if you have 30 bulbs each running 20 mA, you would need at least a 600 mA power supply. Keep in mind, the most common converters you'll find in a store are usually 300, 600, and 1000 mA... I'd recommend keeping this in mind when figuring out which resistors to use.


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## Sword of Whedon

I know what all these parts do, but have 0 understanding of how it all works together. Basically I need a "for dummies " diagram with everything laid out  Thomas has been kind enough to list the part #s, but I just need everything  I've never soldered anything in this amount before, just simple little circuits of wires (I built a 1:1 Gypsy puppet from MST3K, and installing her lighting and switches and batteries is as far as I ever got)

Looking at the prices it seems like we're looking at over $100 by the time it's done


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## jgoldsack

OK.. I have a question that isn't directly involved with lighting, but it logically is still part of it....


Where are we supposed to put the power connector/stand if we use all the internal parts, and don't want to use the "spacedock" stand that comes with the model? I have been tryign to figure that out, and now that I have the model it will help.. but I am still wondering...


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## jgoldsack

ThomasModels said:


> Here is a list of parts and placement diagram. the part numbers are from eLED.com.
> There are other vendors online and I foulnd another that is a bit cheaper.
> 
> http://www.thomasmodels.com/refitbuild/lightingAmini.jpg



Don't suppose there is a "bigger" version of that picture is there? It is very difficult to see at that small scale where all teh stuff should go...


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## B.Wildered

I only have two items to add to this excellent, erudite discussion:

1) I plan to take two or three fluorescent camping lanterns, and use the tubes to light necalles, et. al. If the lights aren't left on all the time, this is a cost-effective approach.

2) Please think before using a laser pointer for lighting your model. The cheap class III diodes can permanently damage your retina. (This I learned at a laser safety briefing at Argonne National Lab.).


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## bkoski

jwrjr said:


> Putting the power supply in the base should work. To state the fairly obyious, those ccfl lines will be running high voltage. Make sure that they are well insulated.
> I've already got the nav flasher + strobe control, and the photon torpedo control already designed and tested. They are available. I probably will not put out a full kit. The time it would take to put wires on all of those lights would make it too expensive. If somebody wants a lights parts package with or without the modules, we can likely work something out.


 I've done very minor lighting in a couple of models way back; grain of wheat, fiber optics and batteries. That's the extent of it. I would appreciate any further info on purchasing your lighting kit. However, when you state that a full lighting kit would be too expensive, I and others would probably be willing to pay to get something complete and proven. All aspects of this model will be time consuming and nerve-wracking. I'd pay to have the electrical headache minimized. Thanks.


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## AZbuilder

This kit just screams "*LIGHT ME*" . How much would you ask for such a package that is either with or without the modules?

AZbuilder
John Davis


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## Newbie modeler

Question for ThomasModels or anyone else who wishes to respond, 

Are the LEDs you recommend powerful enough to throw light from the tips of the nacelles to the secondary hull delta insignia? Will they also work for other locations on the ship... saucer registry numbers and so on? 

Dean :wave:


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## jwrjr

The effects modules are (fairly) cheap. The expensive part is that I used 6 light bulbs, 2 CCFLs (12" blue), and 206 leds. A kit that contains lights, leds, resistors, etc wouldn't be too bad. The problem would be if somebody wanted everything with wires attached. Purchased in 100' spools, that would be nearly $50 in wire alone. Add to that the time it would take to attach the wires, and you see what I mean about being expensive.


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## Krako

I'm with Bkoski in my willingness to pay for a well-done lighting kit. Maybe if a group of us went in together on the bulk materials like wiring, we could lower the cost?


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## Opus Penguin

Newbie modeler said:


> Question for ThomasModels or anyone else who wishes to respond,
> 
> Are the LEDs you recommend powerful enough to throw light from the tips of the nacelles to the secondary hull delta insignia? Will they also work for other locations on the ship... saucer registry numbers and so on?
> 
> Dean :wave:


I read the review of a modler who did this on the Bandai Refit using a mini-super bright LED in the engine aimed at the insignia. I would assume the same technique would work with a large super bright LED. You need to shape the tip of the LED so it aims correctly though. Here is a link to his article:

http://www.culttvman.com/dave_hackett_s_bandai_enterpri.html


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## fxshop

*Eterprise Refit Lighting Kit*

I heard that Voodoofx is taking on the project. They have already started the designs for the project. They are going to make it in to a full production kit. I can't wait too see what they come up with.
Look for it in the near furture, I am sure it will be a nice kit.

Ya buddy!!!!!


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## JadesDarkHeart

Man I am going to go broke just buying the LEDs. The site I get all my LEDs from rang in at $161.50 for all the LEDs. 

That doesn't include solder, wiring, Power supply, CC tubes etc..... I think I need outside financing to build her. LOL


JDH


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## chunkeymonkey

jwrjr said:


> The effects modules are (fairly) cheap. The expensive part is that I used 6 light bulbs, 2 CCFLs (12" blue), and 206 leds. A kit that contains lights, leds, resistors, etc wouldn't be too bad. The problem would be if somebody wanted everything with wires attached. Purchased in 100' spools, that would be nearly $50 in wire alone. Add to that the time it would take to attach the wires, and you see what I mean about being expensive.


did you ever consider some white ccfls for the saucer to cut down the led count??

maybe 2-3 4" white ccfls would do it.


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## jwrjr

The CCFLs in the saucer might work (also in the secondary hull). I just didn't do it that way. For large quantities of leds (>100 3mm whites, for example) I bought mine from some Hong Kong manufacturer on Ebar. I think that I paid something like $25 for a lot of 100 (including shipping).
The worst eater of leds was the secondary hull.


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## Disillusionist

All internal lighting done with ccfls. LED spotlights. Granted this is a bigger model, but it should also work just as nicely in the PL kit.

Northstar Model


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## fxshop

*LEDs*

You need to buy them by the thousands to get the price down. I get a good brake on large buys. 

PS:JWRJR I am glad you are working on the kit! Keep up the good work!


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## Sword of Whedon

I'd love to buy a bag of parts, the FX boards and a wiring diagram. That would make my life a lot easier.


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## chuckman

i think ill be using the same method i used for my nx-01, 2 white cathodes in the saucer, one or two in the secondary hull, and one each for the nacelles, with leds for the miscellanoeus stuff (deflector, inpulse engines, spots, strobes, etc). wont be portable, but by god it will be bright enouogh to see in daylight.


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## omnimodel

jwrjr said:


> The effects modules are (fairly) cheap. The expensive part is that I used 6 light bulbs, 2 CCFLs (12" blue), and 206 leds. .


JWRJR- can I ask the MCD brightness and mA you ran the LEDs at? I 'm just curious, because after using chrome paint ont the inside of the secondary hull on my 22", it only took 4 ultrabright 5 mm LEDs to light the windows. I know this is a bigger and different kit, but I would appreciate insight into why so many LEDs are needed.

Thanks in advance...


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## chunkeymonkey

tonight i did a dry fit and assembled my refit-a with the 12" ccfl's i got in the post today.

just wanted see how this kit goes together and make a mental plan for some of the lighting components.

i'm thinking a couple of coats of black primer inside the whole ship with maybe a coat of silver will be needed, cos my nacelle in plain old white plastic glowed quite nicely all over.......lol.

i do have one minor concern that someone else could confirm for me with flaming me for pointing out a possible flaw in this fatastic kit.

here goes.......where the base of the warp pylons meet the upper hull there are holes for the spotlights that shine onto the pylons. on my kit i noticed that the holes on the outboard side do not point upto towards the pylon but i'm sure the spotlights both should shine onto the pylon......anyone?????

i would say that this could be easily corrected if my assumption is right. :drunk:


----------



## Thom S.

It's due to limitation in the injection tooling process. All openings in those parts must have zero draft angle.

I would drill out the bottom of the opening to fit an LED into and angle it in the right direction.


----------



## Newbie modeler

Thom S. said:


> It's due to limitation in the injection tooling process. All openings in those parts must have zero draft angle.
> 
> I would drill out the bottom of the opening to fit an LED into and angle it in the right direction.



I was wondering that myself. I thought maybe it was just wrong on my kit.
Thanks, Thom :wave:


----------



## CaptDistraction

I just bought 100 3mm 5000mcd white leds. I hope they're enough (in light amount and quantity)


----------



## jwrjr

Answer to omnimodel - with the exception of the rim of the saucer, I put a led in every window. This may have been overkill, but the results look good. For most of the windows, I used 4k 3mm (with some 5mm) whites running at about 6ma (12v with a 1.5k resistor). For the spotlights, I ran them at approx. 15 ma.


----------



## omnimodel

jwrjr said:


> Answer to omnimodel - with the exception of the rim of the saucer, I put a led in every window. This may have been overkill, but the results look good. For most of the windows, I used 4k 3mm (with some 5mm) whites running at about 6ma (12v with a 1.5k resistor). For the spotlights, I ran them at approx. 15 ma.


Thanks for the reply. Your approach sounds cool. I can't wait to see the pics.


----------



## Raist3001

What do you guys plan on doing in order to feed wiring thru the warp pylons? I mean, considering stability, what is the best way to get wiring to the secondary hull? I thought simply about drilling a hole where the pylons meet at the bottom, but then I thought this may weaken the pylons?


----------



## AZbuilder

*Ccfl*

I have a question about ccfl's can 2 of the tubes be run on one inverter or do they have to be on separate inverters?

AZbuilder


----------



## jwrjr

I've posted some pictures in a PL forum thread 'something that I've been working on'. Enjoy.
Actually, there's quite a bit of room in those pylons. They're not solid. To be safe, I ran brass tubing up the length of those pylons and threaded the CCFL wires inside the tubing, separate from the low-voltage wires.
Inverters for running 2 CCFL tubes are commonly available.


----------



## chunkeymonkey

AZbuilder said:


> I have a question about ccfl's can 2 of the tubes be run on one inverter or do they have to be on separate inverters?
> 
> AZbuilder



YES, is the quick answer there.

all the ccfl kits i have bought have two tubes (12" lit and 4" kit), one inverter, a molex splitter lead (it's a pc mod kit) and a quality rocker switch.

all the leads have good plugs pre wired and imo great value for money.

i have seen it written somethere that 3 tubes can run on one inverter but i would stick with what you get in a dual tube kit.

i am going to see how 3 white 4" tubes run in the saucer and 1 4" in the secondary hull with extra led's as required.


even with a big model like this fitting 6 ccfls tubes with 3 inverters might be a tight squeeze, so might consider leaving the hanar/cargo decks out but the gardens are getting a nice paint job and lighting.


----------



## chunkeymonkey

Thom S. said:


> It's due to limitation in the injection tooling process. All openings in those parts must have zero draft angle.
> 
> I would drill out the bottom of the opening to fit an LED into and angle it in the right direction.


thanks for the info thomas, it wasnt a complaint just a query that a lot of other people knew about but didnt want to ask.

knowing it's a limitation to the manufacturing process will be infomative to a lot of people, and it should be easy to fix so the right angle is acheived. :tongue:


----------



## starmanmm

> Nightlaunch's product in my opinion is better than lightsheet and much cheaper. PLUS you get more product for the price you pay.


 
Do we have a website for this item?


----------



## ArthurPendragon

I found a cheap and easy way to light the PL refit... Neon bars !

http://www.mercadolivre.com.br/jm/item?site=MLB&id=27552379

The site is in Portuguese, but I´ll explain.

It´s NOT a neon light of CCFL... In fact, it´s just an acrylic rod with a ribbed surface, and two high power leds at each end. The light goes around the rod and it shines almost like a neon tube.

It can be cut at ANY lenght, from 1 cm to 1 meter , and is only 6 mm in diameter !

It can be wired in ANY DC voltage, from 3 to 12 Volts, juts switching the resistors. 

NO inverters ! No transformers !

Perhaps you could find it at car stores next to you.


----------



## ClubTepes

Ok, so I'm only now begining to get the whole LED thing. Thanks in part to the resistance calculator website (last I used it was a year ago).
The link posted here recently seems not to be working (on my computer at least).
Since I changed hosts this year, I lost all my good old sites from the past so I don't know if this is the same site or not. Is anyone else having trouble with that LED calculator site?

Now I've got a couple of questions I was wondering if people more knowledgeable than myself could help me out with.

1. The CCFC 'neon' or 'flo' lights people are talking about. Are they 'neon' or are they 'flo'. Are these the same kind of product that you find at a Murrays in the car 'hip-hop' section? I was at one today looking to see what they had to offer in that area. Found some interesting things.

2. Since I lost all my old links....Who had the micro-flos at Wonderfest last year? And again, are these the same kind of product, or how are they different (aside from having the option of blinking along with the music).:thumbsup: 

3. I know this is lighting, but can anyone give me the link to the dissertation from the guy who painted the Enterprise for TMP. (BAD trek modeling fan I am for not knowing his name and not having it tattooed on my arm).

4. Since we're all looking at a ton of LEDs for this project, whos got the good places to get them from.

Thanks


----------



## jgoldsack

starmanmm said:


> Do we have a website for this item?



http://www.nightlaunch.com


----------



## ClubTepes

jwrjr said:


> Yes, that's a lot of leds, mostly 3mm (mostly white). What I did was to install the leds on each model part and wire them together into a minimum number of power leads. Then I assemble the parts and connect the wires together. The last panel that I put on was the bottom of the engineering hull. This was a little tricky as the engineering hll is strong enough when fully assembled, but not so strong until then.


The way you talk, it sounds as though you are almost done with assembly, did you do this all in a week, or did you get a kit 'early'? 

Can't wait to see your results.


----------



## captain_america

With regards to lighting, I have a question.

In all the ST films, the Enterprise has her name and designation on the upper saucer illuminated; presumably by a spotlight located at the very front of the bridge. More specifically, the center horizontal "slit". Having done some tests with both the small Bandai model and the large 1/350 PL kit, there seems to be no way to properly aim the light onto the hull; the slit it just too bloody small, and the light that it does project, even with a high-intensity LED just bounces off the "chin" below it; ruining the lighting effect.

Might there be any record of how the makers of the original filming miniature acheived this lighting effect? Any info or suggestions are welcome.


----------



## jgoldsack

captain_america said:


> Might there be any record of how the makers of the original filming miniature acheived this lighting effect? Any info or suggestions are welcome.



Yes.

They used "external" light effects... as in, not on the actual model, light source was somewhere above the model.


----------



## jwrjr

Get one early? Who, me? If you can find a way to get the painting and lighting done in a week, I'd love to know how.


----------



## Prosta

I'm going to try using white elwire for the portholes. 

The inverters are half the size of the ones used for CCFLs
I hope with 10' ($35) I can wrap it around the hangar/cargo space up the dorsal and a couple of laps around the saucer.


----------



## ClubTepes

Prosta said:


> I'm going to try using white elwire for the portholes.
> 
> The inverters are half the size of the ones used for CCFLs
> I hope with 10' ($35) I can wrap it around the hangar/cargo space up the dorsal and a couple of laps around the saucer.


Be careful, I've used that stuff and its pretty dim.


----------



## Ohio_Southpaw

This is where working for an Aerospace company comes in real handy.. walk down the hall, talk to the Electrical Engineers, tell them what I want and they can do the electrical design for me. I lay out printed circuit boards, so a small protoype board to handle the timers for the flashers will be a piece of cake. I'm even considering a "stepped" power on to different circuits to simulate the "power-up" sequence in Spacedock.


----------



## jwrjr

Sequencers (like Ohio_Southpaw mentions) are pretty simple electrically. The tricky part is deciding which parts come up in which order and at what intervals. It gets tricky making something happen (i.e. photon torpedoes) at random times. I did that for a BOP.


----------



## RossW

James (jwjr) - are you using puse width modulation for your photon torpedoes? Hardware or software? I'm thinking that it would be fairly easy to do this with PICs and PWM code, where you do one PWM to 'fade-in', trigger another LED to flash, then a 'fade-out' PWM. Would you use PWM to do the actual firing as well as the warming up?


----------



## ClubTepes

jwrjr said:


> Get one early? Who, me? If you can find a way to get the painting and lighting done in a week, I'd love to know how.


Nice work, though your reply was a little vague about whether you got your model at the same time as the rest of us. 

I could see doing all the lighting and assembling in a week if you really plowed through it and had a plan to begin with. 
Did you paint yours? I see it decaled but, it doesn't appear (from the picture) that you painted it.

OK so all you electrical engineer guys, whos going to come up with the ultra-cool board with all the features thats been talked about here able to handel the 100 LEDs and have it ready for Wonderfest? I'm not talking a complete system, just a board with all the instructions.


----------



## jwrjr

I use pulse width modulation so simulate the photon torpedoes. All done in software using just one modulator per output. The reason I use Pics much of the time is that the instruction set is well suited for PWMs.
Yes I got one early. Don't ask me how, as I'm not telling.


----------



## starmanmm

> http://www.nightlaunch.com


Thanks!


----------



## roosterfish

The KISS principle. You are going to have a maze of wires for the narrow angle LEDs and the coverage will still be spotty. Dare I tell you that there has been in existence for years an LED that has 180 degree coverage or can be made as a narrow angle beam and is very bright? You'd only need a couple of Lumileds and fiber optic to light the big model.

I've been using the Luxeon LEDs for a while in my other hobby, electronic or direct drive hot rod flashlights, and no other standard, narrow angle, Nichia, LED can come close to matching the brightness of the Luxeon I, III or V, especially when overdriven. They can be so bright that you cannot look at the beam directly. Of course the people at work do not believe me and look into my flashlights anyway.

You can get the Luxeon LEDs in different colors and, of course, white too.

The picture shows what a single Lux 3 can do when driven at 800mA in my modified Maglite MiniMag. The standard is 1000mA so the Lux 3 emitter is really underdriven. You should see the pictures of my 'big gun' flashlight! It makes my Mini look sad.

Consider learning to use Luxeon LEDs in the model. Your brain and your model will be better in the long run.


----------



## Heavens Eagle

Seems to me that a startup sequence based on that in the first movie would work just fine. I suspect the hard part would be the slow warm up glow effect on the nav dish. If I had a schematic and decent parts list I could do a pcad board layout. There are even a couple of board manufacturers here local that would be able to make production boards for us. I personally prefer to use surface mount comonents as they are so much more compact and with practice easier to install and assemble. (YES PRACTICE) :freak: 

As to the luxeaon LEDs roosterfish, where can we obtain them?

As to the lighting of the clear trees, I wonder if doing an attachment of a flattened LED to about the center of the part would work. After all a lot of the lighting in an automobile dash at night is done by light travelling along clear plastic parts.


----------



## Raist3001

Luxeon LED's are very expensive. 8-10 doallars a piece.


----------



## jwrjr

Also, Luxeons generally need a heat sink.

Heaven's eagle - I've been doing fades for some time now. Fades use a lot of cpu time. Since some single chip controllers go for just over $1 each, piling on more is no problem.


----------



## Heavens Eagle

Well as I have said in some previous posts, I can and do make pc boards and surface mount parts are my preferred. Get me a schematic and I can do all kinds of stuff. I don't have the equipment nor time now to learn how to program the controllers you use. I could build this with discrete components, but then again as I have been out of the industry now for about 4 years I suspect that many are now unavailable.


----------



## roosterfish

Luxeons can take the place of 12 smaller, Nichia type, LEDs so are they really are not more expensive. Luxeons do not need heat sinks if they are not overdriven. Keep the power under 500mA and you are safe.


----------



## Styrofoam_Guy

I have done a search and I have not seen any information on this subject. Before I pull out the DVDs and start going through the movies does anyone know where I can find a list of all the lights that flash and the rate they flash at?

Alex
Styrofoam Guy


----------



## Sword of Whedon

Now here's a question. I can't see in any way how the hanger/cargo bay is vital to structural integrity once it's glued ('m doing a closed hanger). Since I wasn't planning on spending 3 days pay on LEDs becaue then I don't eat, I was thinking about running cold cathodes in there with some appropriate diffusion and softening via gels and filters. Can anyone see any structural issues I'm missing with taking it out?


----------



## jgoldsack

Sword of Whedon said:


> Now here's a question. I can't see in any way how the hanger/cargo bay is vital to structural integrity once it's glued ('m doing a closed hanger). Since I wasn't planning on spending 3 days pay on LEDs becaue then I don't eat, I was thinking about running cold cathodes in there with some appropriate diffusion and softening via gels and filters. Can anyone see any structural issues I'm missing with taking it out?



The shuttle bay and botanical gardens are optional pieces that do not detract from the structural integrity if they are left out. At the same time, there appears to be plenty of room on either side of the hangar inside the model to fit a CCFT on either side, which is how I think i am going to light the interior of mine, at least for the engineering hull.


----------



## Sword of Whedon

I still have to think about it to be honest. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing a load bearing poster or something  Especially after seeing Jeff's, how can I NOT have the botanicalgarden?


----------



## omnimodel

Styrofoam_Guy said:


> I have done a search and I have not seen any information on this subject. Before I pull out the DVDs and start going through the movies does anyone know where I can find a list of all the lights that flash and the rate they flash at?
> 
> Alex
> Styrofoam Guy


Having spent the last 6 months doing research (for the 22" I'm building), there is no answer that applies to everything. From what I've seen, each version seems to have a different combination of flash rate, color, and intensity. For example, in TMP, the anti collision strobes are very bright and have a fast cycle rate. By the time TWOK came around, they were a little dimmer and about 3 times slower.

As for the locations:

Saucer section running lights:
with the exception of the anti collision stobe on top of the bridge, all of these lights cycle at the same rate... for most films, every 2 to 3 seconds. There are 8 locations total; top an bottom front (more an incandescent than white color), right side top and bottom green, left side top and bottom red, and 2 on either side of the impulse engine (again, more an incandescent than white color). The intensity should be fairly low, so remember to use a higher than normal resistor value.

Anti collision strobes:
there are four locations: on top of the bridge, at the bottom of the secondary hull (between the 4 phaser turrets), and one at the end of each nacelle. If you are building the TMP version, the white LEDs should be (to borrow from George Lucas) "faster and more intense". For other movies, you may need to watch to get the cycle rate.

Hope this helps. Enjoy!


----------



## Styrofoam_Guy

omnimodel said:


> As for the locations:
> 
> Saucer section running lights:
> with the exception of the anti collision stobe on top of the bridge, all of these lights cycle at the same rate... for most films, every 2 to 3 seconds. There are 8 locations total; top an bottom front (more an incandescent than white color), right side top and bottom green, left side top and bottom red, and 2 on either side of the impulse engine (again, more an incandescent than white color). The intensity should be fairly low, so remember to use a higher than normal resistor value.
> 
> Anti collision strobes:
> there are four locations: on top of the bridge, at the bottom of the secondary hull (between the 4 phaser turrets), and one at the end of each nacelle. If you are building the TMP version, the white LEDs should be (to borrow from George Lucas) "faster and more intense". For other movies, you may need to watch to get the cycle rate.
> 
> Hope this helps. Enjoy!



Thanks. I was not aware of the ones bythe impule engines. There are electronic kits out there with flashing lights so now I just have to find one that suits my needs. Hopefully I can place a white LED close by the edge of the saucer and fiber optic the lights up and down. There are also variable strobe kits. I plan on trying fiber optics to bring the lights up to the locations.

I plan to put CCFT in the nacelles for the blue and a few smaller ones in the saucer and secondary hulls. I have 6 in ones but have ordered some 12 in ones for the nacelles. 10 in ones would be perfect.

Some say it will be too bright but I think it will be OK. If it is to bright I can tone t down. 

Nav dish I will have to play with to try and get the even glow.

I hope to try super bright LEDs and fiber optics for the spot lights on the models.

There are cheap 4 channel remotes on ebay that I plan to use to remotely turn lights on.

Alex
Styroofam Guy


----------



## omnimodel

I was thinking about using a remote also, I just hadn't found a source,,, thanks for the tip.

A note of caution on the fiber optics: model glue and CA glue will attack them without mercy, so be sure to use care when applying glue. I learned the hard way after the strand into my warp nacelle melted and I had to spend 6 hours with a jewelers file to install a new one...


----------



## JGG1701

Can we use the fiber optic kit from the original movie Enterprise light up model ?
Just wondering...
I have that model in an unopend box. :thumbsup: 
Jim


----------



## justinleighty

captain_america said:


> With regards to lighting, I have a question.
> In all the ST films, the Enterprise has her name and designation on the upper saucer illuminated; presumably by a spotlight located at the very front of the bridge. More specifically, the center horizontal "slit". Having done some tests with both the small Bandai model and the large 1/350 PL kit, there seems to be no way to properly aim the light onto the hull; the slit it just too bloody small, and the light that it does project, even with a high-intensity LED just bounces off the "chin" below it; ruining the lighting effect.



You know, the clear plastic in both my BanDai kits lights up the upper saucer names just right from the bridge spotlight. It doesn't bounce off the chin on that kit, though you have to position the plastic piece beneath the bridge at just the right level. 

I think that spotlight effect was achieved with a light in the bridge dome on the filiming miniature; I think the dental mirrors were used for the rear of the warp engines, the shuttle deck fantail, and possibly the name behind the VIP lounge.


----------



## Trek Ace

Save for the visible sources located on the model (the base of the dorsal and pylons, for example), all spotlight effects were the result of bouncing Inky's off dental mirrors onto different areas of the model.


----------



## omnimodel

JGG1701 said:


> Can we use the fiber optic kit from the original movie Enterprise light up model ?
> Just wondering...
> I have that model in an unopend box. :thumbsup:
> Jim


If it's like the othe AMT fiber optics (1701-D and Star Destroyer), my guess is no. The fiber optic cable in the AMT kits was typically 64 strands of .235mm in sheathing. These fibers are about the thickness of beard hair.

By comparison, the windows on the 22" refit were 1.0mm... so at 1/350th scale, fiber optics would need to be somewhere between 1.5 to 2.0mm

That said, the .235 does look good when used for either the Romulan Wardbird from the Adversary set, or either of the Excelsior class kits.


----------



## drewid142

fantastic posting over on cult's site...

http://p220.ezboard.com/fculttvmanfrm14.showMessage?topicID=534.topic


----------



## Prosta

I found a 555 timer circuit on the web.
They do PCB etching kits in Maplins here for €30. Enough for a dozen boards.
I found out you can print the circuit on glossy photo paper (in reverse) using a laser printer (in work) and then iron it onto the copper board to etch.

Hours of fun

I havent got the component details of this 1. Must find origional board


----------



## Big Daddy Dave

For the spot lights on the fan tail and the side Federation symbols, I was thinking along the lines of a previous post. Leaving the area behind these regular white and using UV LEDs for the spot lights. In theory, you could tint the color around these features leaving just the graphics outlined in white. I'll need to experement but like the previous poster noted, that would make the white area glow and might give the crisp outline effect on those areas like on the movie model. Any thoughts?


----------



## mactrek

Trek Ace said:


> Save for the visible sources located on the model (the base of the dorsal and pylons, for example), all spotlight effects were the result of bouncing Inky's off dental mirrors onto different areas of the model.


Absolutely correct. However, as Mr Spock said, "There are _always_ possibilities."

Over on Cult's site there's an old AMT/Ertl model done by Kyu Woong Lee. This method might be worth a try.

Here's a pic of the mirror method. It's not quite an asthetically pleasing method for a display in your living room.


----------



## captain_america

justinleighty said:


> You know, the clear plastic in both my BanDai kits lights up the upper saucer names just right from the bridge spotlight. It doesn't bounce off the chin on that kit, though you have to position the plastic piece beneath the bridge at just the right level.
> 
> I think that spotlight effect was achieved with a light in the bridge dome on the filiming miniature; I think the dental mirrors were used for the rear of the warp engines, the shuttle deck fantail, and possibly the name behind the VIP lounge.


 Hi Justin.

The shape of the bridge on the Bandai model is slightly more accurate to the filming model than the 1/350 Polar Lights model, which aids slightly in the lighting situation. However, I have the Bandai model as well, and the stock clear upper bridge insert doesn't project light onto the hull at all, just create illumination from within.


----------



## jwrjr

Referring to mactrek's observation, I saw this in a book - 'If you only see one solution to a problem, it means that you don't understand the problem'.


----------



## Marco Scheloske

Big Daddy Dave said:


> For the spot lights on the fan tail and the side Federation symbols, I was thinking along the lines of a previous post. Leaving the area behind these regular white and using UV LEDs for the spot lights. In theory, you could tint the color around these features leaving just the graphics outlined in white. I'll need to experement but like the previous poster noted, that would make the white area glow and might give the crisp outline effect on those areas like on the movie model. Any thoughts?


I tested this on the spare secondary hull, but not with UV-LEDs but with CCFL tubes - the effect is AWESOME!

Now all I need are pics of the lit areas, as they appeared in the movies, to be able to create masking templates for the inside of the hull. Anyone here with a nice link? A Google-search was not really successful...

Greetings from Germany
Marco


----------



## John F

*Help needed with circuit board.*

I found these circuit diagrams at a link from Cults site,http://www.cs.umanitoba.ca/~djc/personal/circuit.html they were designed to run on 9 volts, I want to build both of these on one board and use a common 12 volt power supply, I'm also planning to put a power strip or two on the board to power my led's. 
My question is should I use a resistor going into the 9 volt circuit or will it be able to handle 12 volts?


----------



## jwrjr

John F - the resistors going to the leds should be increased by a factor of approx 2. You don't need to be exact. The resistors that go only to the 555s should be okay.


----------



## omnimodel

jwrjr said:


> John F - the resistors going to the leds should be increased by a factor of approx 2. You don't need to be exact. The resistors that go only to the 555s should be okay.


You may also want to keep in mind that those schematics have the LEDs wired in series, which spreads the voltage across the bulbs. For example, if you hooked 4 bulbs in series up to a 12 volt source, each would (in theory) draw 3 volts. When wired in series, there's no way to ensure the the voltage will be distributed completely evenly.

If you are you to install a power strip on the board, I'm assuming you're going to wire the bulbs in parallel. In this case, the full 12 volts will be available to each bulb... you'll need to add a resistor to each to compensate. This is actually a better method anyway, since you can ensure that the bulb is not getting more voltage or current than it is design for.

For the resistor values at 12 volts, you may want to try these values. It will run the bulbs at 15mA, which will be bright enough without having to worry about burning out the bulb.

White & Blue (3.8v): 560 ohms
Red, Green, Yellow (2.0v): 680 ohms

One last tip: many 555 ICs are rated for very low power (less than 100 mA) You may want to keep that in mind when picking a power supply. If there is too much spare capacity, you could burn out the chip (yes, this is a lesson I had to learn the hard way...)


----------



## jwrjr

Actually, the voltagew across leds wil be relatively constant - around 1.75 for red, orange, yellow and green leds. That's why the resistors need to be larger. The difference between the supply voltage and the combined led voltages doubles when the supply goes from 9 to 12 volts. You double the resistor value to account for it.


----------



## justinleighty

captain_america said:


> Hi Justin.
> 
> The shape of the bridge on the Bandai model is slightly more accurate to the filming model than the 1/350 Polar Lights model, which aids slightly in the lighting situation. However, I have the Bandai model as well, and the stock clear upper bridge insert doesn't project light onto the hull at all, just create illumination from within.


Huh, that's odd. Mine definitely casts light onto the hull. You might try fiddling with the alignment; it took me a few tries to get my second BanDai kit (the 1701-A) lined up like the first one (the refit). It only shows in a dark room, but it definitely lights up the upper hull.


----------



## spe130

JGG, the AMT/Ertl Enterprise-A lighted kit isn't a fiber-optic model. It has colored LEDs, grain-of-wheat bulbs, and a flashlight-type bulb for the main deflector.

After seeing a few lighted 1/1000 TOS builds, I think I'm going to try using clear epoxy to stick an LED to the back of each bank of windows. This should illuminate each bank while only using one LED each. The rest I haven't even started to think about yet.


----------



## John F

*back to the drawing board*



John F said:


> I found these circuit diagrams at a link from Cults site,http://www.cs.umanitoba.ca/~djc/personal/circuit.html they were designed to run on 9 volts, I want to build both of these on one board and use a common 12 volt power supply, I'm also planning to put a power strip or two on the board to power my led's.
> My question is should I use a resistor going into the 9 volt circuit or will it be able to handle 12 volts?


 I built the circuit, plugged it in and BOOM one of the chips blew up.

Thanks for the help anyway guys.


On to plan b.


----------



## omnimodel

John F said:


> I built the circuit, plugged it in and BOOM one of the chips blew up.
> 
> Thanks for the help anyway guys.
> 
> 
> On to plan b.


I've done this myself (see post #134 in this thread). When I did it, it was because I was running a full 600mA to a board with a single bulb... so including the chip, it was only drawing about 35mA. As a result, I had 565mA going to a chip rated for a max of 100mA.

"wait a minute... what's that smell?"

I'd encourage you to build the circuit again, but this time test it with a battery pack instead of a wall adapter.


----------



## scifibear2

My local hobby shop sells craft lights. I have a set of 10 White LEDs, constant, a set of 10 LEDs flashing, and a set of 50 24" fiber optic strands, constant, that's what I'm gonna use. I figure I can use some of the optic strands in their original length and use shorter lengths in-hull, using the in-hull LEDs for the light source. It's a crap shoot for me at the most, I'm out 30 bucks. I'm not electrical, even if lights do flicker when I meditate.


----------



## Tiberious

Does anyone have a good link for information on Lightsheet? I'm thinking it's the smartest way to light the hanger deck and botanical gardens but frankly I know very little about it and where to buy it. The link provided earlier in this thread for the Night Launch product looks similar but I'd like to avoid the coloring.

Also, I have no doubt that by the time I'm ready to move on this kit there'll be a lighting kit available by one of the many bright folks out there. Unfortunately I burned out all my patience just waiting for the kit to hit my doorstep. 

Tib


----------



## omnimodel

scifibear2 said:


> My local hobby shop sells craft lights. I have a set of 10 White LEDs, constant, a set of 10 LEDs flashing, and a set of 50 24" fiber optic strands, constant, that's what I'm gonna use. I figure I can use some of the optic strands in their original length and use shorter lengths in-hull, using the in-hull LEDs for the light source. It's a crap shoot for me at the most, I'm out 30 bucks. I'm not electrical, even if lights do flicker when I meditate.


A couple of tips on the fiber optics:

Use caution on the bend radius: if bent at too tight an angle they will 'break' (although still be in one piece), and then transmission will stop at the point of the break.

Keep them away from liquid glues! MEK based glues such as Testor's liquid cement will eat through fiber optics. (I had to spend 3 hours drilling and filing out my 22" warp pylons after this happened)

After cutting, be sure to polish the ends of the fiber optic. Using progressively finer grits of wet/dry sandpaper usually does the trick...

Good luck with your project!


----------



## chunkeymonkey

i have some heavy duty fibre optic strands from a scrapped flower light.

is there a sure fire way to make a lens once the fibre is glued in place and trimmed with a couple of mm left??

i noticed some of the holes on saucer of the refit are'nt the right size for a 3mm led (i think they're the flashing nav's), so was wondering about a fibre strand that will fit the hole.

i'm thinking a soldering iron is the obvious choice at the moment but have limited amounts of the heavy duty strand to experiment with so was wondering if anyone had some personal experience with this idea.

thanks.


----------



## TrekFX

The contact info for LightSheet is [email protected].

As I said before, we are currently in a hiatus. Not to leave you in the dark (!?)... or anything but I'm still evaluating our future direction.

Thanks for the interest in LightSheet, and I'll of course keep you posted.

Mike


----------



## drewid142

Is TrekFX the ONLY supplier of lightsheet?


----------



## TrekFX

LightSheet is a trademark. So technically, yes. :thumbsup: 

However, you can find EL all over the place.


----------



## Nova Designs

Yeah I just found some behind my washing machine!


----------



## drewid142

So what is the major difference between LightSheet and EL?

I know it's been talked to death... please forgive the repetition... but I guess I, for one... didn't "get it"


----------



## jgoldsack

drewid142 said:


> So what is the major difference between LightSheet and EL?
> 
> I know it's been talked to death... please forgive the repetition... but I guess I, for one... didn't "get it"



They are the same. Lightsheet is just a brand name.


----------



## Raist3001

drewid142 said:


> So what is the major difference between LightSheet and EL?
> 
> I know it's been talked to death... please forgive the repetition... but I guess I, for one... didn't "get it"


Lightsheet is the brand name as Glo Wrap is the brand name for the NightLaunch product. Glo wrap is the same product and much cheaper.


----------



## Heavens Eagle

One way to put a sharp ( or relatively small radius anyway) is to heat the fiberoptic. This can be done over a small candle flame. One way to practice is to take some clear sprue and heat it until it is soft enought to work with. I heard that another way is to use a soldering iron and hold it close until the optic softens.

Care must be taken, but I had to do this once a long time ago when I use some fiber optic to put lights in the movie Klingon ship engines. I was using some optic that was about .050 inches in dia and it did not bend sharp at all. Required several bends but it worked quite well. Another way to do the end is to use the tip of the soldering iron held close to heat the optic which swells slightly and forms a lens from the heat. Again, don't overheat and don't touch the optic with the iron, only hold it close.


----------



## scifibear2

Heavens Eagle

Thanks for the tip. I was wondering today at work if it would be possible to do that. I have 50 twenty-four inch stands. Enough to practice with

Also, I really don't want to cut into the ship. I was thinking about leaving the botanicals ports out on one side of the ship to run some of the wiring. I have some pre-wired flashing LEDs and the light source that came with the fiber optics strands. I may resort to using 'wheat bulbs but will want to locate them where I can change them, or do redundant installation in case of burn-outs LOL.

I'll be happy with a really sharp paint job, but this kit screams LIGHT ME!


----------



## TrekFX

Raist3001 said:


> Lightsheet is the brand name as Glo Wrap is the brand name for the NightLaunch product. Glo wrap is the same product and much cheaper.


I dare say that while "Glo Wrap" may be the same *type* of product, it is not the SAME product. 

You work for them or something? You keep saying the same thing again and again and again. (But then, I suppose I do too!!)


----------



## AZbuilder

*Lighting The Beast*

Hi everyone, I am planning on lighting my refit with CCFL's which I think will be cheaper in the long run. 2 will be in the nacelles of course and also I am thinking of placing 2 in the primary hull (Saucer) section at an angle to each other or parallel will be enough to light it and one in the secondary hull (engineering) with out the cargo/shuttle bay inside but I am keeping the arboretum in place. This single tube I believe will illuminate the engineering and dorsal (neck) . Now the question I have is Has anyone tried applying fiber optic leads from the CCFl Tube to a clear part. which is to say placing a small amount of clear epoxy from the CCFL tube and attaching a strand of fiber optic to it and attaching the other end via clear epoxy to a clear part to light it instead of LED's.
Of course all this will require blacking out the interior to prevent light bleed but I am thinking about painting with silver (unless someone has a better idea) or lining the interior with either foil or Mylar to reflect the light. Any suggestion will be appreciated

AZbuilder
John Davis


----------



## Marco Scheloske

AZbuilder said:


> This single tube I believe will illuminate the engineering and dorsal (neck) .


I`ll use CCFLs too, but the neck is problematic: There is no open connection between the secondary hull and the neck or the neck and the saucer. Of course it can be opened, but I don`t know how this will affect the stability of the model...

By the way: Someone else here who thinks it is strange that the torpedo launcher part is clear to be lit easily, but blocked from behind from an opaque part of the neck assembly?



> Of course all this will require blacking out the interior to prevent light bleed but I am thinking about painting with silver (unless someone has a better idea) or lining the interior with either foil or Mylar to reflect the light. Any suggestion will be appreciated


I`ll use self-adhesive aluminium foil.


----------



## AZbuilder

Hi Marco, what I have thought of was using a piece of mirror glass, cut to size and attached to the stern end of the Neck that way the light coming up through the engineering hull will be dispersed throughout the dorsal.

AZbuilder
John Davis


----------



## Alkalilake

What I think would work is to use large diameter fiber optic strands going up into the neck. You can carfully heat them and get a very tight bend in them to angle straight down without a loss of conductivity. Aim them at your light source and it should be fine. I have to do this same thing on my Deboer kit. The neck in it has a brass structural piece right through the middle of it. You can get the large diameter strands here. They sell strands by the foot and have really thick gauge stuff as well as the smaller fine gauge. http://www.thefiberopticstore.com/purchase/endglowfilament.htm This strand is bent at a 90 degree angle and still conducts light really well. I can't think of any other way to get the dorsal to light up correctly.


----------



## Marco Scheloske

Alkalilake said:


> I can't think of any other way to get the dorsal to light up correctly.


I`m thinking about the use of two white LEDs here.

Greetings from Germany
Marco


----------



## omnimodel

I still haven't received mine yet to take the measurements, but I'm thinking of using side glow fiber optics for all of the windows. It is fairly pricey, but given the cost of LEDs and resistors, it may work out to be rather cost effective.

As far as opaquing for light bleed, I've had my best results with this 2-3 step system:

1) after wet sanding the interior smooth, prime with a thick ("scratch filling") aerosol primer. Red Oxide or Black will work the best. Once it has had time to dry thoroughly, wet sand up to 1500 grit

2) topcoat with Chrome paint (such as Krylon's Original Chrome).

3) if the surface is flat enough, affix mylar (available at most party supply stores) using double stick tape. Try to make sure there are as few wrinkles as possible. For section withcompound curves, such as the fantail, you may need to just stop at the chrome paint

If done properly, the super reflective surface will bounce the light around inside until it can escape through the window.


----------



## Raist3001

TrekFX said:


> I dare say that while "Glo Wrap" may be the same *type* of product, it is not the SAME product.
> 
> You work for them or something? You keep saying the same thing again and again and again. (But then, I suppose I do too!!)


I don't work for Nightlaunch. When I like a product, I like to promote it. Especially when I have received great customer service. I've tried lightsheet and I have tried glowrap. I have come to like glowrap better. So I guess your right, although they are the same product, they are not the same in many aspects. Glowrap is cheaper, and you get much more of it. One aspect of lightsheet I did like was that it was available for specific projects. If I was working on an Enterprise E, I could order enough lightsheet, cut to specifics for the project. With glowrap, I have to do the cutting. But there is more than enough in a 25 dollar foot in a half 2 inch wide strip of glo wrap. And that price includes the inverter.

Although, I do love the name LIGHTSHEET


----------



## RossW

Are there any oblong ports on the neck? If not, I might just go with some 60 mm fibre optic pointed down to the sec. hull. If there are oblong ports, using fibre optic for those is tricky; you could fill the opening with clear epoxy and stick 2-3 fibres side-by-side into the goo before it sets up.


----------



## Prosta

I cut optic fiber at a shallow angle and pointed an LED up the neck. 
The fiber seems to catch enough light.


----------



## Opus Penguin

Raist3001 said:


> I don't work for Nightlaunch. When I like a product, I like to promote it. Especially when I have received great customer service. I've tried lightsheet and I have tried glowrap. I have come to like glowrap better. So I guess your right, although they are the same product, they are not the same in many aspects. Glowrap is cheaper, and you get much more of it. One aspect of lightsheet I did like was that it was available for specific projects. If I was working on an Enterprise E, I could order enough lightsheet, cut to specifics for the project. With glowrap, I have to do the cutting. But there is more than enough in a 25 dollar foot in a half 2 inch wide strip of glo wrap. And that price includes the inverter.
> 
> Although, I do love the name LIGHTSHEET


Nightlaunch also states they are not sure if they will be getting any new inverters in. Which makes me wonder if their product will be good to buy. I have no idea where to get an inverter if they cannot supply it.


----------



## jgoldsack

My biggest problem with Lightsheet is the fact that I can't order it online. I detest having to call or email someone just to place an order.


----------



## Marco Scheloske

I played around with the lighting a bit, and here is someting you should take care of:

Make sure that you don`t only light-seal the interior hull, but the "walls" of the windows also - otherwise the naked styrene there will act like a fiberoptic, creating a shiny glow to the hull...

I`ll paint the window walls by hand with flat black and a small brush, coated with another layer of very light grey.

Greetings from Germany
Marco


----------



## chunkeymonkey

when i spray the inside for lightsealing/opaqueness i mask the windows from the outside.

if your careful and dont overdo the spraying then you gat a layer of paint around the window hole/recess. then obviously test fit the window in the hole, as most ertl kits were a bit loose its ok but i have'nt tried the refit windows with paint in the hole.


----------



## Scorpitat

*RE: Lighting*

Hey Gang,
I just posted something under the Polar Lights section, that may be able to be used for starship lighting. 

Check it out, if ya want.

Boldly Go!
Sincerely,
Scorpitat :wave: :thumbsup:


----------



## drewid142

Surface Mount Device? SMD
Do any of you know about these? Do a google search on SMD LED... or follow the link below to a data sheet on the smallest I found... they are TINY. I'm just getting ready to do my first lit model and I'm looking for interesting alternatives. Any light-wiz's out there that can share some wisdom on these little guys. I've never seen them mentioned here.

http://www.para.com.tw/pdf/I-SMD/I05-LC192XX.pdf


----------



## F91

SMD are small, so small that soldering them is very, very difficult.


----------



## jwrjr

I used 6 surface-mount leds to light the arboretum. And yes, even with a very fine-tip soldering iron, they are not the easiest to wire up.


----------



## guartho

Here's one for anyone who's used cold cathodes from elwirecheap.com. What are the dimensions of the inverters? My order is back-ordered and I'd really like to know if I'll have room for them AND all the secondary hull interior pieces.


----------



## F91

Quartho, I'll look, but how many are you using? They will get warm if they are in tight quarters.


----------



## F91

Chunkey, buy a bunch of toothpicks and stick them into the windows, should keep the paint out.



chunkeymonkey said:


> when i spray the inside for lightsealing/opaqueness i mask the windows from the outside.
> 
> if your careful and dont overdo the spraying then you gat a layer of paint around the window hole/recess. then obviously test fit the window in the hole, as most ertl kits were a bit loose its ok but i have'nt tried the refit windows with paint in the hole.


----------



## Alkalilake

guartho said:


> Here's one for anyone who's used cold cathodes from elwirecheap.com. What are the dimensions of the inverters? My order is back-ordered and I'd really like to know if I'll have room for them AND all the secondary hull interior pieces.


My inverters came from somebody else, but they are only 1X2 inches. I can't imagine yours will be much bigger. I think you have plenty of room in the back of the secondary hull for them.


----------



## guartho

Groovy, I'd like to have all the interior pieces in my model. I'll have 3 inverters total in my model. I'll test them for heat for awhile and they don't necessarily HAVE to be in the secondary hull of course.


----------



## Alkalilake

There's actually alot of room in the saucer as well. How many tubes and where are you putting them?


----------



## guartho

1 12" in each nacelle, 2 6 inchers and 2 4 inchers, each set in either the saucer or the secondary hull, I haven't decided yet. Originally, I was going to have one in the secondary hull, but if I can fit the shuttlebay interior in, I think I'll need one on each side.


----------



## TrekFX

My retinas feel the burn already.


----------



## Alkalilake

That's probably what I'm going to do to the Deboer's nacelles and secondary. I'm going to overlight mine a bit. My thinking is these models get displayed mainly in normal roomlight, so overlighting makes the lights stand out a bit more. I have all my circiutry done and installed in the saucer already. You can see what a mess it's becoming. There's a large pin connector that joins the two halves together. Interestingly, Joel Tavera used one single led to light each bank of windows in the dish, I'm using three and it looks just bright enough. Just goes to show how everybody is going to do their kit a bit differently. I also cast the ring of lights in clear into my deflector housing instead of drilling all of them out.


----------



## CaptDistraction

I think cold cathodes are far too bright for the nacelles. I will be using two leds pointed towards each other, and I've frosted the back of the grill so that the light spreads evenly.


----------



## Alkalilake

CaptDistraction said:


> I think cold cathodes are far too bright for the nacelles. I will be using two leds pointed towards each other, and I've frosted the back of the grill so that the light spreads evenly.


That looks pretty good, but the size difference is a bit extreme between these two kits. I like it bright!


----------



## Marco Scheloske

F91 said:


> Chunkey, buy a bunch of toothpicks and stick them into the windows, should keep the paint out.


But you MUST have paint in the windows, otherwise you`ll get a nice glowing circle because the styrene "glows" when you turn on interior light.

Greetings from Germany
Marco


----------



## guartho

Yeah, I'm hoping to do some shooting experiment in my school's TV studio before I graduate, so I want my lights to stand out not just under living room conditions, but studio lights as well. That's only if I get it done in the next 9 months though.


----------



## chunkeymonkey

Marco Scheloske said:


> But you MUST have paint in the windows, otherwise you`ll get a nice glowing circle because the styrene "glows" when you turn on interior light.
> 
> Greetings from Germany
> Marco



F91 i'm sure most people let paint get around the window openings to make the model light-tight. like marco says, otherwise you get nice glowing windows.

i dont profess to be an expert i just approach these problems with a practical and common sense point of view.

the plastic on the pl refit kit it very thick in some places so i dont know how its gonna affect the lighting but i think the samr principles apply.

many different ways to crack a nut.......i just use a 10lb hammer...lol. :thumbsup:


----------



## F91

The nice glowing ring isn't that noticeable next to a really bright window. Being Trek though, I do understand the need for absolute perfection. It's almost like Salmon breeding. They HAVE to do it. 
Ducks...doesn't run


----------



## Jabbs

I've run the power supply in the base and routed the power to an electric guitar plug into the ship. The plug sits on the top of the base so you can take the model off and spin it around if you want...
My two cents.


----------



## Marco Scheloske

F91 said:


> The nice glowing ring isn't that noticeable next to a really bright window.


I tested it, and the brighter the lightsource (and so the window) is the brighter the glowing circle is. The styrene acts like a huge optic fiber, leading the light into the hull itself. The only way to block it without painting the window sidewalls is to paint the hull black not only from inside, but from the outside too - I don`t want to do this, because there will be enough layers of paint on the outside without such a "block layer". But this is - like everything else - a matter of personal taste. I`ll not be angry if you or someone else is thinking different about this problem...  

Greetings from Germany
Marco


----------



## chunkeymonkey

F91 said:


> Ducks...don't run



but they waddle really quickly when being chased by klingons... :tongue: :tongue:


----------



## Lloyd Collins

How about fireflys?


----------



## F91

Ducks...eat fireflys....


----------



## chunkeymonkey

F91 said:


> Ducks...eat fireflys....


and fireflies eat klingons........ooooh......what a vicious circle. :freak: :freak: :freak:


----------



## mechinyun

Jabbs said:


> I've run the power supply in the base and routed the power to an electric guitar plug into the ship. The plug sits on the top of the base so you can take the model off and spin it around if you want...
> My two cents.



This is AWESOME!! I havent started building my kit, but I already know the stock base is history. I love the ship, but despise that base!!

Im wondering what kind of structure you have inside to hold all the weight together right on that one point. Im VERY intrested to find out how its wired, i would love to mount and setup my ship like this.

More details please!!


----------



## Captain April

I suddenly see my kit sitting the box for a very very looooooooong time...


----------



## FyreTigger

With regard to TMP only, and only looking at footage that shows the ship as a whole (not paying attention to hull section closeups that may have been separate models), the running lights flash at a rate of approximately 1 second on, 1 second off (26 frames each at 24fps). The strobes flash at approximately once ever 3/4th second (1 frame on, 18 frames off at 24fps video). For those who are wondering about 24fps film versus 30 fps video, this was done with a DVD player that does pulldown removal (restores 30 fps to the original 24 fps).

The strobe locastions are (4 - all yellow/white):
Top of Bridge - 1
Bottom center of Secondary Hull (in the middle of the phaser quad) - 1
Top Rear of each Nacelle - 2 (at some point later in the movie series, these became red/green running lights)

The running light locations are (10):
Saucer Port Top/Bottom (red) - 2
Saucer Starboard Top/Bottom (green) - 2
Saucer Bow Top/Bottom (yellow white) - 2
Saucer top Flanking the Impulse Engine (yellow/white) - 2
Secondary Hull Above Hanger Bay Doors (yellow/white) - 1
Secondary Hull Fantail Underside on Floodlight Housing (yellow white) - 1 (this one at some point in the movie series became a constant on light)


----------



## F91

One of the intrepid members here had a circuit for the refit, drawn up on veroboard. Anybody have the link? I can't find it anywhere!


----------



## Sayanora

If anyone is interested and has a little knowledge of making printed circuit boards I have designed a PCB that runs the nav lights and strobes and provides power to the rest of the components. It uses a cheap and easily obtained 556 timer. I have also come across what seems to be a very cheap and easy way to make a PCB. If anyone wants more info let me know and I'll help any way I can!


----------



## FyreTigger

CaptDistraction said:


> I think cold cathodes are far too bright for the nacelles. I will be using two leds pointed towards each other, and I've frosted the back of the grill so that the light spreads evenly.
> 
> http://www.chris-wynne.com/bige/ltest3.jpg


You got a great purple/blue color there (very much like some of the photos from TMP). Is that just the blue LEDs or is the grill tinted too (and with what)?

Thanks.


----------



## CaptDistraction

just a single blue led to a frosted grill. That was underdriven, it looks much more even at full voltage (12v for that particular one).


----------



## FyreTigger

CaptDistraction said:


> just a single blue led to a frosted grill. That was underdriven, it looks much more even at full voltage (12v for that particular one).


Does it have the purple cast in real life (which I want) or is the color off in the photograph?

Thanks.


----------



## Alkalilake

Blue leds are cobalt blue sometimes. It's a great color going on there for sure.


----------



## FyreTigger

Has anyone found a solution to lighting the intercooler RCS triad? The jpg diagram Thomas posted shows a 3mm yellow LED, but those are about twice the height of the actual body cavity of the intercooler. I have no experience filing LEDs down. Is this within the limits of what can be done?

Also, has anyone come up with a solution for the places where two types of light are needed in a tight space:

1. Fantail flood needs a strobe on it (I think this is the worst case).
2. Hanger bay observation (red) needs a strobe just above it.

Thanks.


----------



## Alkalilake

FyreTigger said:


> Has anyone found a solution to lighting the intercooler RCS triad? The jpg diagram Thomas posted shows a 3mm yellow LED, but those are about twice the height of the actual body cavity of the intercooler. I have no experience filing LEDs down. Is this within the limits of what can be done?
> 
> Also, has anyone come up with a solution for the places where two types of light are needed in a tight space:
> 
> 1. Fantail flood needs a strobe on it (I think this is the worst case).
> 2. Hanger bay observation (red) needs a strobe just above it.
> 
> Thanks.


Exactly where is this intercooler part?


----------



## WarpCore Breach

Probably means the cluster of RCS on the rear horizontal "fin" at the back of the warp engines. Those are intercoolers? Really? I wish I had my references. They all disappeared after I had some so-called friends over 10 years ago. I've been able to find some replacements, but some irreplacable prints are no longer available.


----------



## FyreTigger

WarpCore Breach said:


> Probably means the cluster of RCS on the rear horizontal "fin" at the back of the warp engines. Those are intercoolers? Really?


That's it exactly. Anyone figures out how to do that piece and I will be most appreciative.


----------



## drbubba43

FyreTigger said:


> That's it exactly. Anyone figures out how to do that piece and I will be most appreciative.


I've not gotten that far yet, but how about firer optics to a light source in the nacelle? There should be plenty of room for a few strands...

I'll have to pull the parts out and look at them later.

Ray


----------



## jwrjr

I used grain-of-rice light bulbs in the RCS clusters. You have to be careful with power to them as overvoltage will shorten their already none-too-long life, but that is a detail, not really a problem.


----------



## justinleighty

FyreTigger said:


> Also, has anyone come up with a solution for the places where two types of light are needed in a tight space:
> 
> 1. Fantail flood needs a strobe on it (I think this is the worst case).
> 2. Hanger bay observation (red) needs a strobe just above it.


Are you sure those are strobes? Which movie(s)? In TMP those lights are steady-on; I haven't looked closely at the other films for those lights.


----------



## FyreTigger

justinleighty said:


> Are you sure those are strobes? Which movie(s)? In TMP those lights are steady-on; I haven't looked closely at the other films for those lights.


I checked again, and you are right. That makes things a little easier.


----------



## justinleighty

You had me a little scared there!


----------



## RossW

Plus, the formation lights next to the impulse crystal on the aft end of the primary hull don't blink in TMP, as far as I could see.


----------



## FyreTigger

RossW said:


> Plus, the formation lights next to the impulse crystal on the aft end of the primary hull don't blink in TMP, as far as I could see.


In TMP I can never actually see those. In TWOK, all of them blink with the running/navigation lights: the fantail top and bottom and the formation lights (several great shots as the Enterprise enters the nebula [for the fantail] and then when they do the "He's intelligent, but inexperienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking." maneuver".


----------



## Cloudwalker

I posted this in another thread on this board, but I figured i'd copy it into our grand collected lighting thread to be sure everyone sees it. It was about trying to get the proper look and color of the deflector dish using LEDs.

I was speaking to my brother about the deflector cunundrum, as his line of work is stage lighting and illuminated sign fabrication. He suggests that to eliminate the LED "hotspot", we take a conical drill to a 5mm or 10mm LED. Basically, what you want to do is remove the natural lens shape of the led and reverse it, so you have a sharp concave cone emmiting the light, which will disperse it more consistantly over a much wider area. Now my variation on this idea to get a whitish color in the center, is to surround one underpowered 3mm Cool White Led with 3 (or 5) 5mm Pure Blue LEDs (or Sky Blue LEDs) with the aforementioned conical tweaking....and of course, frost the dish.

I'll be starting to place my many lighting orders this week and next week, but it'll be a little while before I'll have time to test the idea. If anyone else feels up to it, by all means, please try it and report back.

Also, I'm not sure if anyone is aware of this, but there is such thing as an incandescant colored white LED. So if anyone out there wants authentically colored spot lights, secondary formation lights, and VIP lounges, be sure to pick a few of these up. One source that I know of is www.ledtronics.com in their discrete LEDs section.


----------



## klgonsneedbotox

Hi, I am new here but have been a trek fan since I was old enough to stand in front of the TV (since about 1970).

I have owned several Enterprises over the decades (wow, suddenly I realize how old I am...) starting with my first one back in 1972. Needless to say I have mortally wounded more than a few kits along the way.

I haven't built a kit since back in the early/mid 80's, but when I saw the refit was being offered at 1/350th scale, that little kid/teenager in me had to have one. For $50 (or less) you just can't pass it up. Kudos to Thomas and everyone involved with getting this kit into the hands of the masses.

So, anyway...I have been slowly assembling my refit and reading these threads...in a potentially vein attempt at creating a "worthy" model. Part of my dilemma is that I am somewhat limited by budget and resources (both time and tools). My original approach (everybody get ready to cringe...) was to use SPRAY paints and decorative lights (like on Christmas trees).

I am still trying to decide if I should take the plunge for an airbrush. I worked with them years ago in art classes and I think with a little practice, I will be ok with either a single or double action unit.

But, on the lighting front, I started to build the kit with the x-mas lights. I got a set of 35 for $3 and figured I would rewire them to correct spacing problems (they are uniformly about 5-6 inches apart...this doesn't work for the nacelles when you have to run the wire down the nacelle struts). So far it is working decently (I may post a pic or two later) but MY CONCERNS ARE, HOW LONG WILL THEY LAST AND HOW HOT WILL THEY GET? I actually purchased two sets and left one plugged in for a while and it didn't seem to get very hot (a plus). Has anyone worked with this "low grade" lighting option before and, if so, any suggestions?

By the way, my general lighting plan is to use the x-mas lights to light most of the ship. I will have separate lighting for when the ship is supposed to be moving at warp speed. I will also have a separate light for the main sensor. I will run fiber optic wire (that I purchased years ago) from the formation/anti-collision positions through the bottom of the ship (along with the wiring) where I plan on having one blinker and one strobe. I figure I will have a power strip in the base. I will plug the x-mas lights directly into it and then use a converter for the other lights which will have appropriate switches. 

If you made it to here, thanks for reading my post!


----------



## justinleighty

Well, if you've found Christmas lights that don't get too hot, you've solved one of the two problems. The other is bulb life. If you don't have the model on very often, you'll probably be fine (until a bulb burns out, and that's very unpredictable). 

People like LEDs because of their very long life. The problem is wiring them, resistors, etc. 

Anything you do is a matter of trade-offs. Personally I'm going to use a combination of cold-cathode flourescent tubes and LEDs, but I bought LEDs made for little decorative Christmas trees, so they're already wired up to a battery pack. Kind of a compromise — long life, but simple.


----------



## drewid142

Justin... tell us a few details of the pre-wired LEDs for the mini christmas tree... a brand name so we can find it on the web? Sounds like a great comprimise!


----------



## klgonsneedbotox

Not sure where Justin got his, but I stumbled across this site, 10 in a set...

http://www.alwaysbrilliant.com/aa/aa/aspx-productpage/pid-618/dt-20050607/dpc-19/pd-45729/Battery/Operated/bb/Battery_Operated_LEDs.htm

They also offer the plug in kind, 70 in a set...

http://www.alwaysbrilliant.com/aa/aa/aspx-productpage/pid-618/dt-20050607/dpc-19/pd-45289/LED/Light/bb/LED_Light_Strands.htm

These look to be a good replacement for what I have done so far. Again, they will require a little rewiring, but assuming they provide a steady light (no flicker), they should work out rather nicely. I could see using the 70 set (white) plug-in for the main lights (might be too many!!!) and the 10 set battery powered for the nacelle warp lights (rewired to 5 each side) .


----------



## drewid142

How do you think these pre-wired christmas LEDs will compare in longevity?

My biggest fear is that I invest all that time in making the model perfect... and before too long the LEDs go out.


----------



## klgonsneedbotox

I don't think you need to worry about that...the site says that both types are rated at an average life of 100,000 hours...that's over 11 years of continuous use...so turn them on now and they should last through the start of the next trek series or movie...:thumbsup:


----------



## drewid142

yeah... I saw that after I posted my question... but I also saw that they are over an inch long. I think I'll buy one and check it out... but I may still hunker down and figure out how to wire my own LEDs with resisters and asperins.


----------



## justinleighty

I'll try to see if I have any still in the package and post it. They were cheapies in the Christmas section at Target in December, and were all 3mm LEDs, 20 to a strand, with a battery box with switch, all for something like $4 or $5. Takes three or four AA batteries.


----------



## justinleighty

OK, here's what they are. An LED micro light set, 18 white LEDs on the strand (not 20). Long life lights, getting 60 hours before you have to change the batteries (four AA batteries). They're made for Target, and were $4.99.


----------



## chunkeymonkey

justinleighty said:


> Well, if you've found Christmas lights that don't get too hot, you've solved one of the two problems. The other is bulb life. If you don't have the model on very often, you'll probably be fine (until a bulb burns out, and that's very unpredictable).
> 
> People like LEDs because of their very long life. The problem is wiring them, resistors, etc.
> 
> Anything you do is a matter of trade-offs. Personally I'm going to use a combination of cold-cathode flourescent tubes and LEDs, but I bought LEDs made for little decorative Christmas trees, so they're already wired up to a battery pack. Kind of a compromise — long life, but simple.



any chance of seeing a piccie of your led light set or perhaps a schematic/wiring diagram of how it all goes together please ???

ta !!


----------



## justinleighty

chunkeymonkey said:


> any chance of seeing a piccie of your led light set or perhaps a schematic/wiring diagram of how it all goes together please ???
> 
> ta !!


I have NO idea about a wiring diagram/schematic, that's why I bought this thing. The set-up procedure is as follows: 1) Open up the package; 2) pull out the light set; 3) install batteries; and 4) turn on the switch. That's why I bought it. As far as a picture, I could probably do one, but imagine a small strand of regular Christmas lights, and instead of Christmas light bulbs, think tiny LEDs, and instead of green wires, think clear wires.


----------



## chunkeymonkey

ok thanks anyway, but i'd imagine they are wired in parallel.


----------



## jwrjr

They would have to be mostly or entirely in parallel, or else you would need a higher voltage power supply.


----------



## Cloudwalker

*Pefect solution to inboard nacell lighting*

Is it purple? Is it blue? Is it purply-blue? Who cares! I found the perfect solution to apease all color interpretations. There is a company selling a blue/purple 2 in 1 CCT. It has a switch you can wire up to change it to either color. Here's a link to the product. They're a teeny bit pricey for a CCT at $9.99 each, but considering you're technically getting two tubes in one super compact tube, the price is a steal. Here's a link: http://www.xoxide.com/logisys-blue-uv-2-in-1-twin-cold-cathode.html 

What do you guys think?


----------



## CaptDistraction

that's a great company to order from, I've ordered tons from them over the years.


----------



## B.Wildered

Hey, will the cold cathode in question fit inside the nacelle?


----------



## jwrjr

12 inch CCFLs fit easily in the warp nacelles.


----------



## Cloudwalker

Yerah, they'll fit. However, I will be ordering mine from a different company. Xoxide refuses to ship them to me via USPS. They will only ship UPS, and as I work for the post office, I'm out delivering mail the same hours as UPS, so I wont be around to receive the package, nor can I go to a local hub and pick it up, and there's no safe place for them to leave it at my apartment building.

But this is all stuff you guys could care less about. 

I'll probably order the 2 in 1 Blue/UV tubes from casecooler.com. As far as I can tell, it's the perfect thing to light the nacelles with. Plus they actually include the inverters with them. $9.95 per tube with inverter. Xoxide, as far as I can tell, do not include the inverter.


----------



## CaptDistraction

xoxide usually includes inverters, even if you order the bare tube. I discovered that when I ordered a replacement tube for one I had broken in a freak accident, haha.


----------



## klgonsneedbotox

Well, I finally broke down and order some LEDs for my PL refit. Now my question...I plan on wiring them in series, to avoid using resistors, is that better or worse than parallel? They are rated at average life of > 100k hours...I ordered them from here

http://www.ledset.com/

I got 3 sets of white (36) and one set of mixed bag 1 (10).

The wiring guide for a series looks pretty straightfoward.


----------



## Marco Scheloske

klgonsneedbotox said:


> I plan on wiring them in series, to avoid using resistors, is that better or worse than parallel?


I would say its worse - when one of the LEDs wired in series will become damaged, the whole line will not lit up anymore.

Greetings from Germany
Marco


----------



## klgonsneedbotox

Thanks...that's what I thought...so if there are 4 in a series, all 4 would go out?

e.g. 

Series 1: |-1-2-3-4-|
Series 2: |-5-6-7-8-|
Series 3: |-9-0-A-B-|

If 2 goes out, I lose 1-4, correct?

Each light comes with it's own 470ohm resistor...so I guess I could wire them in parallel.


----------



## Garbaron

correct


----------



## klgonsneedbotox

OK...thanks for the quick replies...I think I know what I need to do now.


----------



## chunkeymonkey

the only advantage i can see in using series is there is less wiring compared to parallel, so parallel is a safer bet if not more messy with wiring.

does anyone here sing the virtues of using the wiring from cat5 ethernet cables ??


----------



## jwrjr

I wouldn't use ethernet cable for my models. The wire size is okay, but I wouldn't use single-strand wire. It breaks too easily if you nick it while stripping it.


----------



## Steven Coffey

I use telephone extention wire for my models .The wire thickness is good and it is some what cheap and color coded .The only pain is striping it .


----------



## Bryancd

Hey, get back to work, you!!!!


----------



## Prosta

Been using IDE cables. There is a scrap PC section in the local recycling centre.
Yards of free wire. Not color coded though.
STILL waiting for my shipment of ccfl and elwire from Elwirecheap.com (since April)


----------



## chunkeymonkey

PROSTA, chase them up mate if you havent already. if you paid by credit card etc you should have some sort of cover.

i have lots of spare ide cables too, but having access to colour coded wires is also attractive.


----------



## justinleighty

Prosta said:


> Been using IDE cables. There is a scrap PC section in the local recycling centre.
> Yards of free wire. Not color coded though.
> STILL waiting for my shipment of ccfl and elwire from Elwirecheap.com (since April)


That's odd. I just placed an order with them the other day and already got my shipping notice. If I were you, I'd contact them and find out what's up. I've ordered from them several times and have never encountered any problems.


----------



## Prosta

*Ot*

I'm having no luck mail-ordering stuff reciently

Sent Elwirecheap 11 mails over the course of this.
I had 2 seperate orders with them. They had stock/customs problems back in April. I asked them to combine the 2 orders so I could save on shipping. They said "no problem" but still no refund

I was told 4 weeks ago that the backorderd items were in and mine shipped. 
My sister in San Fran sent a package on June 16th that arrived yesterday so USPS cant be the issue.
Been asking every week for any type of reference number so I can annoy my post office but no reply since May 25th.

Involved Yahoo shopping and Paypal but have yet to see them respond.

I ordered PC stuff from Voyeurmods.com and they had some emergency and all orders were put on hold for 2 weeks.

On the other hand, sunglasses I sent to Costa del Mar 14 months ago arrived last week and are being repaired. Hopefully they wont take as long on the return trip.


----------



## chunkeymonkey

oh...dear..mate


all i can suggest is, just stick to getting stuff from your local high street, that way your guaranteed for a result.

it's pants when things like this happen.


----------



## Raist3001

Prosta said:


> I'm having no luck mail-ordering stuff reciently
> 
> Sent Elwirecheap 11 mails over the course of this.
> I had 2 seperate orders with them. They had stock/customs problems back in April. I asked them to combine the 2 orders so I could save on shipping. They said "no problem" but still no refund
> 
> I was told 4 weeks ago that the backorderd items were in and mine shipped.
> My sister in San Fran sent a package on June 16th that arrived yesterday so USPS cant be the issue.
> Been asking every week for any type of reference number so I can annoy my post office but no reply since May 25th.
> 
> Involved Yahoo shopping and Paypal but have yet to see them respond.
> 
> I ordered PC stuff from Voyeurmods.com and they had some emergency and all orders were put on hold for 2 weeks.
> 
> On the other hand, sunglasses I sent to Costa del Mar 14 months ago arrived last week and are being repaired. Hopefully they wont take as long on the return trip.



I ordered from elwirecheap.com myself. And although I received my product within a week, I did have some questions. I sent them about 10 emails in a weeks period that went unanswered.


----------



## sdhlaw1701

*Power Supply Question*



ThomasModels said:


> Here is a list of parts and placement diagram. the part numbers are from eLED.com.
> There are other vendors online and I foulnd another that is a bit cheaper.
> 
> http://www.thomasmodels.com/refitbuild/lightingAmini.jpg


Hello all,
I am new to this forum and have a power question for the experts. I plan on using the LED and CCFL design provided by Thomasmodels (much thanks) combined with a flasher board purchased from Don's Light and Magic. My question is what size power supply is sufficient to safely power the big E if I want to use a AC adaptor (wall wort?)? Will 12V at 1500ma be enough for 165 LEDs and 2 CCFLs running on 1 dual inverter. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks :wave:


----------



## TrekFX

Figuring out stuff like this is just basic math, specifically addition. And we don't have all the facts right now so can't say if the Wart is big enough (??!)

To do it yourself, add up the amperage requirements of ALL components. You should have specifications somewhere, either with the items or from the catalog.

That's it. Just add. THEN it is prudent to give yourself some margin for error and get a reasonably "upsized" power supply. Too big can't hurt, but too small... you would be displeased!

Hope this helps.


----------



## Marco Scheloske

sdhlaw1701 said:


> Will 12V at 1500ma be enough for 165 LEDs and 2 CCFLs running on 1 dual inverter.


I would say: No.

As far as I learned from several CCFL producers (Sharkoon and Sunbeam) each CCFL draws 5 mA, but the inverter needs additional 600 - 800 mA for each attached CCFL. So you`re up to 1200 to 1600 mA for the CCFLs only. LEDs (at least the ones I will use) uses 2 to 2.5 mA each. So with 165 LEDs you have 330 to 412.5 mA. Add this to the 1200 to 1600 mA for the CCFLs, and you see that a 1500 mA power supply is not enough. Get _at least_ a 2000 mA power supply. 

I was lucky to find a cheap 5000 mA / 65 W supply this weekend, so I will have no problems with my 6 CCFLs (two in the nacelles, two in the saucer, two in the sec. hull) plus a couple of LEDs here and there (deflector, neck, main spotlights)...

Greetings from Germany
Marco


----------



## ArthurPendragon

Marco Scheloske said:


> I would say: No.
> 
> I was lucky to find a cheap 5000 mA / 65 W supply this weekend, so I will have no problems with my 6 CCFLs (two in the nacelles, two in the saucer, two in the sec. hull) plus a couple of LEDs here and there (deflector, neck, main spotlights)...
> 
> Greetings from Germany
> Marco



Marco, you are overlighting it ! It's too much CCFLs for the model, even considering it's sheer size !


----------



## fokkerpilot

ClubTepes said:


> 4. Since we're all looking at a ton of LEDs for this project, whos got the good places to get them from.
> 
> Thanks


 Try these LED mfg's:

http://www.superbrightleds.com

http://www.lsdiodes.com

http://www.eled.com


----------



## fokkerpilot

I've elected to use computer power packs for the power source.









12v line for the CCFL's and Nav/Photon flasher circuit, 3.3v for the LED's, and a spare 5.0V I plan on mounting this in a wooden box that will support the space dock stand. A brass rod will run up into the belly with the wiring.

Jack


----------



## jwrjr

A. one of the best sources that I've found for large quantities of leds at low prices is Ebay. As they will be coming from Hong Kong the shipping will not be fast.
B. Computer power supplies work well for models, but each output needs to be loaded down with at least 10% of the max current for it to regulate well. With the refit this is not so much of a problem, but it is still a detail that needs to be watched.


----------



## sdhlaw1701

Thanks all for the help. I think I will try a power suply with at least 2.5mA. I'll let you know if this works. :thumbsup:


----------



## Marco Scheloske

ArthurPendragon said:


> Marco, you are overlighting it ! It's too much CCFLs for the model, even considering it's sheer size !


Ok, the given numbers of CCFLs are my plan - I`m in the testing stage yet. At the moment it seems that the amount of light is ok, but the model isn`t covered with silver tape from the inside at the moment. I`ll test again when that is done, maybe I`ll reduce the CCFLs for the saucer and sec. hull to one each (4" lenght). I`m not sure about the neck also, I have not decided wether to use LEDs to lit it up from inside or to cut away a bit styrene from the mounting areas in the saucer and sec. hull to allow light from the CCFLs there to shine into the neckpart. I`m afraid that LEDs will have a bit different light than the CCFLs, but I`m also afraid that taking styrene away will weaken the structure of the kit too much.

To make sure that the brightness of the nacelles is not too high I use blue CCFLs there, in addition to dark blue transparent color painted on the inside of the grills (already done).

I`m also thinking of lighting the stand (yes, the one that comes with the kit): CCFLs and specific areas without "light blocking color / tape" to simulate the lights of the spacedock, and green LEDs for the transparent pieces that hold the model to make them look like tractorbeams. The last works very well (I will wire it in a way that those add-on effects can be turned on and off seperate from the internal windows, as well as the spotlights, warpdrive and deflector)!

Greetings from Germany
Marco


----------



## falcondesigns

I saw on another message board that someone did light the base and it looks great!


----------



## klgonsneedbotox

Here's a quick pic of my deflector dish...it has not been painted...I think the color (bright blue LED behind a frosted dish) looks pretty good...thoughts and suggestions are welcome!!!

Update...I painted the white lines inside of the dish (needs a second coat)and added white behind the "dashes" around the outside. I still need to paint black behind that to block all of the light in that area...see 2nd image (dishtest3) for update...


----------



## chunkeymonkey

nice dish !!!!!

looks great in the second picture, the lines stand out nicely.

did you frost the dish from both sides ?

what did you frost it with, acrylic or enamel ? aerosol or airbrush?


----------



## klgonsneedbotox

I frosted the dish from the inside only and also diffused the LED with some frosting as well. 

Here's a link to the stuff from Rustoleum:
http://www.rustoleum.com/Product.asp?frm_product_id=38&SBL=1&dds=10

I had to experiment a few times and ended up using more frosting than I thought I would need. I think it's because I am using a super bright LED...in any case the light diffusion is not quite as nice in person as it looks in the pic. I am experimenting with getting the middle/brightest spot to be a little bit larger...

The other thing I am trying to tackle now are the inboard nacelle grilles...I have my color picked (purple) but using LEDs I am struggling a little to get uniform lighting. I used someone's suggestion of a straw from arby's with an LED at each end, but I think they used 10mm LEDs while mine are only 5mm? In any case, I am still working on getting the lighting to be nice and even.


----------



## chunkeymonkey

Thanks for the reply Mr Botox.


i went straight for 12" ccfl's for the nacelles.

tried the straw idea when researching my lighting for my nx-01 and wasnt happy, like you, with the uneven lighting it gave.


----------



## Rogue1

I've read through the posts and forgive me if I've missed it, but what type of power supply would be best for lighting this kit? A computer power supply? One of those universal adapters? Something else?

Specific examples would be what I'm looking for. Brand, type, even model number or catalog number if you could. I really am feeling around in the dark here, being a beginner to lighting, so the more specific the better. 

I've looked on Ebaby for power supplies, but most list wattage and not an ma value. I've just ordered 100 LEDs 5mm, 8000mcd, 20ma (I figured at 15ma...don't want deer to stop on my front lawn), approx 3.4typ fwd voltage, of which I figure I will use 93 (guessing here) and using the LED design link posted here, it says I need 150ohm resistors. I also want to run jwrjr's flashers & photon chips off of the same supply.

I figured a 12v power supply, but I have no idea of what kind to look for. Ideally I wouldnt want a huge box with a loud fan I suppose, so any suggestions would be great.

Thanks,
Brian


----------



## Cloudwalker

Rogue1 said:


> I've read through the posts and forgive me if I've missed it, but what type of power supply would be best for lighting this kit.....Yada Yada Yada......but I have no idea of what kind to look for. Ideally I wouldnt want a huge box with a loud fan I suppose, so any suggestions would be great.
> 
> Thanks,
> Brian



I'm using a Radio Shack brand 12v 1500mA Power Adapter, stock # 273-1779. It will be powering about 50 - 100 LEDs, DLM's Federation Flasher, and two CCTs. I may need a second one though. Not sure yet. Still calculating. Hope that helps.


----------



## Rogue1

Thats exactly the type of info I'm looking for!! Thanks Cloudwalker!

I found this just now.
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=4248095&type=product&id=1051384790856

How does this look?


----------



## CaptDistraction

like a winner.


----------



## Cloudwalker

Rogue1 said:


> Thats exactly the type of info I'm looking for!! Thanks Cloudwalker!
> 
> I found this just now.
> http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=4248095&type=product&id=1051384790856
> 
> How does this look?


Perfect. That's exactly what you need....and it's $4.00 cheaper than Radio Shack. Son of a...!


----------



## fokkerpilot

Be careful though! You may want to re-calculate the total Ma's and add a slight buffer so as not to over drive your adapter. My configuration is looking at around 2.3 amps (2300Ma) and some wall adapters won't handle that. I've actually elected to use a Computer Power Supply rated at 6 amps. I have 3 optional outputs of 12v , 5 volts, and 3.3 volts. The only drawback of this setup is that it will not allow a swivel type stand using a basic plug-in jack.

Jack


----------



## jwrjr

If you are only using 2 of the voltages (I would suggest +5 and +12), you can use a stereo phone plug for the power.


----------



## klgonsneedbotox

I have a question about the computer supply option...please see the image below...

What I'm not certain about is how many amps I actually have to work with. If you look at the picture you will see (hopefully) a blue rectangle with some fuzzy numbers inside. What is says there looks like this:

INPUT: 115V-6A
230V-3A

OUTPUT: +5V -5V +12V -12V
MAX (A): 23.0 0.5 9.5 0.5

So, what are the actual amps if I am using the 12 volt line?

Any help would be appreciated....thanks!


----------



## chuckman

that thing must either be extremly old, or came out of a dell to have such low power power ratings (looks like an old AT psu to me)......anyway, specs say 9.5amps on the 12v line.

also, espically if its a newer one, theres two wires that have to be connected by a momentary switch to turn the power on (usually done just by the little power button on the front of a computer). i forget if the old AT's need that or not, but the ATX ones do, so at least its a future not for anyone else with the same idea.


----------



## klgonsneedbotox

LOL...it is old and you are correct that it's an AT...

This one works by just plugging it in and then pushing the power button (circled in blue in my earlier pic).

So, I should be fine for lighting about 100 LEDs that have 20 mA rating then (total of 2 amps)....right?

I'm new to the whole lighting thing, so I only know enough about electricity to get myself shocked...well, I know enough NOT to get myself shocked...but past that, it's all new to me.

Thanks again!


----------



## Prowler901

That must be an older power supply. I have one that I just pulled out of an HP. It has the following ratings listed:

+5V/25A
+3.3V/18A
+12V/14A

I have a question about the ccfl's though. I wanted to light my nacelles with ccfl's. One website states that the wire from the inverter to the ccfl should be no longer than 7-8". I'm installing the shuttle and cargo bays in my refit. This leaves no room for the inverter in the engineering hull. The inverter would have to be kept in a location outside the ship. Is the distance between the ccfl and the inverter that critical?

Regards,
Todd


----------



## Marco Scheloske

Prowler901 said:


> I have a question about the ccfl's though. I wanted to light my nacelles with ccfl's. One website states that the wire from the inverter to the ccfl should be no longer than 7-8". Is the distance between the ccfl and the inverter that critical?


There are wires available to lengthen the connections of PC fans. I tried one of them to lengthen the wires of the CCFLs I`m going to use, adding 12" to the wire of the CCFL - and I got no problems. No additional heat, light is as bright as before.

Greetings from Germany
Marco


----------



## Cloudwalker

*Wire?*

Hey....I was just thinking. I have a ton of different wire types sitting around. Does anyone know which kind would work best for wiring up the LEDs to the circuits? I'm thinking copper speaker wire, as it's more flexible and less prone to breaking over time. Any thoughts?


----------



## Raist3001

Marco Scheloske said:


> There are wires available to lengthen the connections of PC fans. I tried one of them to lengthen the wires of the CCFLs I`m going to use, adding 12" to the wire of the CCFL - and I got no problems. No additional heat, light is as bright as before.
> 
> Greetings from Germany
> Marco



I have lengthened the wires to my CCFL's and have experienced no problems what so ever. No dimming, not flickering...no nothing.


----------



## chuckman

ive used peaker wire before, works well. basically, any twisted copper wire would work, say around 24 gauge if i remember my sizes right (about 1/16"-1/8"), maybe a bit bigger for a cathode.

btw, dont limit your self to the 12v line on that psu, leds typically only need around 3.2v, which means you can use a smaller resitor off the 5v line, which will have much more current available.


----------



## AZbuilder

*4 for 4*

Well guy's I am 4 for 4 now installing 12 in. CCfl's. The first set I broke test fitting them in the primary hull without the plastic sheath that came with them. 
the second set i got from SVC, that came incased in a acrylic tube realizing that the lights were not going to fit, I trimed the ends down with my dremel and still it was not going to fit with the acrylic tube inplace. So I decided to cut the tubes out of the acrylic well i am carefully cutting away and then I realized I had cut the light tube in half on one end. well I am horified and just sit there with this look of utter disbelief I know because my wife is in the room with me on her computer. So then I realize I have a second white CCFL and I fugure maybe it will light up just as well with one tube. so this time I am more careful in cutting it out of the acrylic. And then I remove the light tube and place it in the primary hull and secure it in place so it will not move close the hull halves and plug into the inverter which is powered up. and nothing, zip, zilch, nada. to even a flicker. i check the connections all secure upon closer examination of the tube I notice that the cutting wheel had nicked the the insulation on the end of the tube well that's that scratch 2 more white CCFL's. so i move on to my blue CCFL's this time I made no mods or removal to the tube and placed them into my nacelle's closed them up and hooked everything up and now I have 2 lit up nacelle's looking pretty as a picture  now I am back to square one with the primary hull :freak: and 3 dual tube inverters.

AZbuilder
John Davis


----------



## ArthurPendragon

We all must be EXTREMELY carefull when dealing with CCFLs. Not only they're fragile outside the plastic tube, but the content of the light is a WELL KNOW CANCERIGENOUS (spl ?) AGENT (of course, you need a long skin exposure to make some effect, but the white dust can be inhaled easily).

It's not wise to take any chances.


----------



## TrekFX

I avoid "tubes" like the plague. They are fragile, they are (to ME) way WAY too bright, and bulky to work with.

Solid-state for me all the way (though I do have some nice aviation grain-of-rice and axial lamps (long-lived) that may see action.


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## klgonsneedbotox

Here's a nacelle test I did. The raised inboard grille ribs are black from using pinstripe I bought at pepboys and the purple is from 3 layers of a transparent colored folder I bought from office depot. The light source in this case is from the desk lamp behind the nacelle. I am still working on getting a similar look from my LEDs :freak:


----------



## GLU Sniffah

Edit....Deleted.


----------



## GLU Sniffah

ArthurPendragon said:


> We all must be EXTREMELY carefull when dealing with CCFLs. Not only they're fragile outside the plastic tube, but the content of the light is a WELL KNOW CANCERIGENOUS (spl ?) AGENT (of course, you need a long skin exposure to make some effect, but the white dust can be inhaled easily).
> 
> It's not wise to take any chances.


 That coating is titanium oxide and you're right...bad to inhale. Not a problem if the same care is exercised as one would changing a tube in a regular light fixture!

I'm not sure how I will approach lighting the field grid/flux chillers on my kit yet. I'm just enjoying reading all the great ideas here in the meantime!


----------



## event

I've been reading some of these great posts and I'm wondering: how are you guys handling the wiring into the model? I've seen some photos of the model fixed on a spike from the bottom and, of course the wires would run through that. But what if you use the stand that comes in the box? What are your ideas for covering the wires?

One of the things I'd like to do, although I most probably won't be able to, would be to adapt the stand with "robotic" arms like in the real dry dock. One of them could replicate the gangway hatch docking arm in some way and run the wires through that. Damn, I wish I had talent for this, heh heh

Edit: PS: Now this may sound silly (and I'm sorry if it is), but does anyone think it's possible to make those two translucent "sticks" that hold the saucer look like tractor beams with proper lighting?


----------



## Marco Scheloske

event said:


> But what if you use the stand that comes in the box? What are your ideas for covering the wires?


Well, the stand is a spacedock, so I will simply attach a 12 mm diameter ribbed plastic tube to the starboard side, bend in a 90 degree angle, going to the base itself (where the power supply will be). That way it looks like a maintance tunnel, and that`s ok for me.



> Now this may sound silly (and I'm sorry if it is), but does anyone think it's possible to make those two translucent "sticks" that hold the saucer look like tractor beams with proper lighting?


I make this with green LEDs sitting in the base, directly beneath the transparent sticks and the aft holder. I tested it already, looks nice: The green light fades away the closer the sticks are to the saucer, I like the effect.

Greetings from Germany
Marco


----------



## Prowler901

> Well, the stand is a spacedock, so I will simply attach a 12 mm diameter ribbed plastic tube to the starboard side, bend in a 90 degree angle, going to the base itself (where the power supply will be). That way it looks like a maintance tunnel, and that`s ok for me.


I think thats a great idea Marco. Especially since upon closer inspection of the starboard Engineering Hull docking port I noted that it is crooked. The door details are off vertical by ~5 degrees.

Regards,
Todd

EDIT: Doh! It's the starboard torpedo docking port that is off...


----------



## klgonsneedbotox

Here's a quick pic (low grade, fuzzy image, no exterior saucer paint) of a light test I did with my saucer edge windows. In the pic you will see X's that mark where my LEDs will go (only the front four are installed for this picture). By cutting away at the support wall that hangs down from the top saucer half (see red line - I actually drew it incorrectly...it is drawn upside down :drunk: ) I was able to free space that allows the light to travel to the windows. You can even see some light (blueish) has made it's way back to the upper deck area (additional LEDs will be mounted there).

With this approach, I think I can light ALL the saucer windows and impulse engine area with 15 LEDs or less. :thumbsup:


----------



## Opus Penguin

Looks good! I look forward to your progress. Custting back on the LEDs would be more cost efficient as long as you can still see brightly lit windows.


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## justinleighty

event said:


> Does anyone think it's possible to make those two translucent "sticks" that hold the saucer look like tractor beams with proper lighting?


Well, it would be easier to make them look like intermix chambers ... :tongue: 

But actually, here's an idea: Get some fiber optics and run a bunch along the outsides of the intermix stand pieces; maybe sand their outsides a bit, and light them up with whatever color you want your tractor beam to be. That might do it. For a source for fiber optics, you should be able to find one of those cheap ornate lamp-type deals (or find little hand-held, battery powered toys using FOs in touristy areas, like amusement parks or the San Antonio Riverwalk).


----------



## Jimbow

FyreTigger said:


> Has anyone found a solution to lighting the intercooler RCS triad?


Hi I'm new here, but this is a great forum.

I once saw an age old article, where someone used block shaped LED's. They cut out a shape in the intercooler where the light needs to go, and drilled through for wiring into the warp engines. They then fed the wires through from the LED into the warp engine (to be attached to the internal wiring) before gluing the block-shaped LED into the cutout part of the intercooler. The LED was then sanded down to fit flush with the intercooler. The small rectangular shapes for the three actual RCS lights were masked on, and the masks were not taken off until painting was finished. Hey presto, perfectly shaped RCS lights on a very tricky part. It would probably be a good idea to put plenty of paint layers on that area to ensure no light leakage.

I haven't tried it, so don't blame me if it doesn't work


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## klgonsneedbotox

Here's another saucer pic from a light test. This time there are 8 LEDs in the saucer. There's a slight blueish tint to some of the lighting and I think part of that is because my gloss white paint needs another coat on the upper half of the saucer inside. As it is now, you can see some of the black through the white.

I decided not to try and put the saucer spotlights in the kit. I will put LEDs in the upper and lower saucer decks, so that the spots appear to be there, but if I try and light the exterior of the ship in these areas, I will do it from outside the ship itself.

I'm pretty happy with how these windows look. The clear plastic was frosted from the inside and I think it diffuses the light nicely.


----------



## Prowler901

Looks like your making some good progress there. Looking forward to following it.

What are your plans for getting lights around the large locator pins on the bridge and sensor aray parts? The darn things are right where the lights need to be placed. The one thing I can come up with is to drill a 3mm hole through them and push the LED right into the hole.


----------



## woozle

For my cut-away Enterprise-A, I'm looking at using fiber optics for interior lights (room and indirect lighting). Looking at Federation Models $30 fiber optic kits and cheap fiber optic lamps on eBay







for $10 with S&H, I can't help wondering if it wouldn't be better to just strip a couple lamps for my needs, since the fiber diameter isn't that important.. any thoughts on pros and cons??


----------



## Heavens Eagle

Be careful of buying those lamp kits. They can be glass fiber optics that can not be bent. They work well for the lamp but are not useable for what we want.


----------



## cinc2020

*tinning*

I've been looking around on the Internet for soldering tips. When I was in the military, I seem to recall "tinning" the copper tracks on the board before installing and soldering in the components. From what I've found on the Internet, no one seems to add this as a step. 

Is it necessary or not?

Thanks.


----------



## eqc1138

I build radios for a living. You don't need to tin the traces. Tinning is only really needed when installing gold leads. Tin the lead, not the pad on the board. Also, tin stranded wires before intalling them through the board and cliping them.


----------



## jwrjr

I build microcontroller circuits, and I completely agree with eqc1138.


----------



## cinc2020

Excellent. Thanks guys.

This is my first lighting job, and I'm looking forward to the adventure.


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## sdhlaw1701

*Resistor question*

Alright, I am resistor impared. I have what might be a silly question. I purchased LEDs from ebay and got free resistors to go with them. The guy who sold the LEDs said the resistors are for 12V power sources. If I plan to basicaly pu over 140 LEDs in the PL Refit is it safe to use one resistor per LED where the resistors are 510 ohm +- 5% 1/4W and the LEDs are 1.8v, 2.1v and 3.2v all 30ma, also my power supply is 12V. Can I use these resistors or do I have to go a buy other Ohm resistors per array requirements (wired in serries in parallel). Thanks
Scott :hat: (should be a dunce hat)


----------



## jwrjr

Those 510 ohm resistors will give you from 20 ma for the 1.8 volt leds to about 18 ma through the 3.2 volt leds. If you use 1 led per resistor, you will be fine. If you use more than one led per resistors, the leds will be fine but they will be dimmer.


----------



## cinc2020

*Wire*

What gauge wire should I sue for the kind of electronics used in these models? I have heard about "ribbon wire," but can't seem to find it at Radio Shack...

Thanks.


----------



## Heavens Eagle

You might try the local computer store. If they have a service department, ask if they have any bad hard drive cables. These are usually about 40 conductor "ribbon" cables. Floppy drives have fewer wires but are also of the same variety. If you are lucky they can also have it in rolls and could maybe sell you some by the foot.

I personally have some supplies of old telephone wire (the thick bundle variety) and then some real thin wire from a 360 conductor cable. Good stuff but a pain to tin if you don't know how.


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## ArthurPendragon

360 degree light white LEDS ! 

http://superbrightleds.com/specs/w45-360_specs.htm 

http://www.superbrightleds.com/cgi-bin/store/commerce.cgi?product=LEDS&keywords=&cart_id=4009024.13451&next=50 

The search for the perfect lightning is over !


----------



## cinc2020

Got 'em. And these guys have excellent service.


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## klgonsneedbotox

OK...I just bought two 12" CCFL's for the warp nacelles...I got the blue/uv ones.

Now, these things should stay pretty gool (did I really type gool..uh I mean cool), right? The reason I ask is that I feel they will be too bright and I would like to encase (sp?) them in something that will diminish some of the brightness. I have a couple of ideas concerning that, I just want to be sure that they really do stay cool.

Anyone who has worked with these lights, please speak up...thank you!


----------



## chuckman

mine all ran pretty cool, a little warmer than ambient, but much cooler than body temp. a bit of colored tissue paper or transparency around them should work just fine i would think.


----------



## Cloudwalker

My blue/UVs get warm to the touch, but you'll be in no danger of meltdown whatsoever. However, I always like to play it safe, so I'll be dimming/tinting mine with theatrial lighting gels. My brother worls for one of the larger lightingcompanies in the Philadelphia area, and has access to any shade and gradient imaginable. And if they can withstand a 1000 watt tungstan bulb without melting down, a little CCT isn't going to be an issue.


----------



## klgonsneedbotox

Thanks for the input!

Cloudwalker, did you get yours from Xoxide? Do these lights require much modification to the nacelles themselves? Can all of the pieces fit in the nacelles (and then you can just run the wires though the ship and to the base) or are there components that are too large and need to be installed in the base too?

Sorry for all of the questions!


----------



## Cloudwalker

I ordered mine somewhere else for a few bucks cheaper, but the brand is the same xoxcide carries. the only physical mod you'll need to make to the tubes is to grind down the square acyrlic endcaps a little bit to get the nacelle halves to close. You may also need to fiddle around with the mounting pins if you want the tub eperfectly centered behind the clear grill piece, but if you difuse it, the tube being a little off center wont matter.

The inverters you'll have to store in the base. there's no way they're going to fit in the ship, let alone the nacelles. Unfortunately, this means you'll also have to splice on a few extra inches of wire. It's a relatively simple and painless operation.


----------



## klgonsneedbotox

Thanks Cloudwalker!

I just got mine and I decided to remove the rear mounting pin from the nacelle...I am thinking of removing the front one too. Extending the wires looks like it will be easy. Do you know if you can run two lights off of one inverter? Is so, then I could run 3 wires from the ship instead of six.

Those theatrical lighting gels you spoke of sound interesting. I am going for the purple look with my lighting and so far, I haven't had much success with how the grilles look in pics. In person, they look decent, but in pics they look blue (I posted 2 pics in my refit progress thread). I am going to try a couple of different things this weekend to see if I can't improve the look.


----------



## fokkerpilot

ArthurPendragon said:


> 360 degree light white LEDS ! http://superbrightleds.com/specs/w45-360_specs.htm
> The search for the perfect lightning is over !


 You bet Art!! Those folks at SuperBright have their act together on Customer Service too. I purchased quite a few of those 360 degree lights and my total LED count is going to be a lot less than anticipated thanks to those.

Jack


----------



## TrekFX

In case you haven't done your homework: A caveat!

Those 360 degree white LEDs use a phosphorescent coating... PHOSPHORescent.

Thus, as with ANY phosphor-based product, like oh let's see now, LightSheet? Fluorescents? they will have a finite usable lifespan dependent on how hard you drive them.

I was quoted a typical figure of 10-20K hours for those 360 degree white LEDs, pretty comparable to LightSheet at a similar drive level. Just so ya know they DO NOT last as long as standard LEDs and to make provisions if needed.


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## ArthurPendragon

Indeed.

If you sand the external surface of a white led, it disperses light, just like an small bulb.

After buying a few and testing these "360 degree leds", I can sey that they're good, but the effect is just the same as sanding the external surface of a white led.


----------



## justinleighty

OK, let me ask this: After the usable lifespan of the phosphorescent coating is up, wouldn't the LED still emit light, though in a limited fashion like a regular LED?


----------



## fokkerpilot

Anyone come up with a good Deflector Dish lighting array? I've been scratching my head on a few methods. 

Here are a few of my build pics. The light leaks will disappear. Love the thruster lighting on this one.




























Jack


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## jwrjr

I just had an idea about that. They make round CCFL lamps (take a lighted computer case fan, probably one of the 80 mm ones) and strip the lamp out. They come in several colors, including blue.


----------



## Rogue1

Question: 

Would a 12v dc 4 amp battery charger work as a power supply? I currently have enough LEDs to follow this as well as jwrjr's photon & flasher/strobe circuits.
I've been searching all over for a power supply but cant find any that are priced decent.


----------



## jwrjr

If the 4 amp rating is the output of the supply (and not the size of the battery that it is meant for) then it will have enough current capacity. But measure the output voltage for the charger. If you are running leds at close to their maximum current, then using a higher voltage will cause too much current to go through them, which will eventually be bad.


----------



## Rogue1

Thank you! If the power supply output turns out to be less than expected, I will most likely go with 2 circuits using 2 smaller power supplies and divide the load between them.
If it's greater than expected, is it possible to add a resistor at the beginning of the circuit to lower it to an acceptable level?

Oh also a question jwrjr, on your flasher and photon circuits. Are the given ma ratings with or without the LEDs in the circuit, and if so, how many LEDs are calculated for each circuit?


----------



## jwrjr

I used a 4 amp power supply that I got from Ebay. I calculate that I am using about 1/2 of its capacity. So the dual power supply route should not be necessary.
The current draws that I give for my modules (around 10 ma each) does not include the leds or light bulbs. The drive capacity for my led outputs is (officially) 250 ma for leds. That equates to up to 10 leds @ 25 ma. These outputs are rated conservatively so that if you load them a bit more than the rating nothing bad will happen. I can build them to handle as much current as needed (although they will not be as small).


----------



## Rogue1

Thanks again! *putting my brain pick away*


----------



## sdhlaw1701

*I Need Of Help!!! Please*

Hey all,
I am racking my brain and I can't seem to come up with the solution. My problem is with LEDs (as usual). I have the lights in the saucer of the PL Refit and I can only get the white LEDs to light. I am using a 12v power supply with an input of AC 100v 50/60hz, 35va Output 12VDC/1.25A.
I have 510ohm resistors on each LED. The Yellow LEDs are rated at 2.1V. What the heck did I do wrong?
Thanks all  
SDHLAW


----------



## jwrjr

If the whites are lighting up, then the yellows should be, too. Have you double-checked the wiring and the polarity of the leds? Not that I think that this will be the problem, but you've ruled out the more likely causes so we must clutch at straws.


----------



## sdhlaw1701

James,
Yes I have checked the polarity and the wiring and nothing. I even took 3 fresh yellow leds and put fres 510ohm resistors on each wired them up and tried to run them off of the power supply, and nothing happened, except the resistors began to get hot. I then tried the same with red led with the same results as the yellow. I have to be missing something but I can't seem to figure it out.


----------



## jwrjr

If the resistors are getting hot there is current flowing. Can you measure the voltage across the resistors when the power is on? There should be approx. 10 volts across the resistors (and 2 volts across the led). If the voltage across the resistor is the same as the supply voltage, the led is shorted. That seems unlikely, but the first rule of troubleshooting is 'don't assume anything'.


----------



## sdhlaw1701

James,
I just tested with my multi-meter and no matter where I placed the probes i.e. accross the resistor accross the LED, or accross the the connection terminals I kept getting the same reading of 12.24V, I take it that means the LEDs is not getting any juice, this is not a good thing is it?


----------



## jwrjr

No, not good except that it is helping to pinpoint the problem. As wired with the power NOT connected, measure the resistance across the resistor. Also measure the resistance across the led. If either measures close to 0 ohms, there is your problem. Note: even if the leds were lighting properly, the resistor would be dissipating about 0.2 watts. In English - it is normal for the resistor to get warm.


----------



## sdhlaw1701

James,
As you suggested I measured the ohms accross the resistor and accross the LED with the power off and on all readings I was given a measurement of 171.8 ohms. This is quite perplexing. Is this giving you any ideas? Thanks


----------



## jwrjr

This gets odder and odder ("Curiouser and curiouser, said Alice"). Try the measurements again with the power supply disconnected. It sounds like a shorted resistor with the reading coming from the power supply. But from long distance it is hard yet to be sure.


----------



## sdhlaw1701

James,
I performed the tests you asked and got the same readings on the 4 LEDS, 171.5ohms. However, I then tested each led in the saucer (minus the white LEDs that are working) and I discovered the two red LEDs that light the impulse engines gave back a reading of 0.56ohms accross the resistors for each. Is that our short? If so how does that explain the readings I am getting form the yellow test LEDS that were never linked to the saucer lights? I think were getting closer, either that or there is something completely wrong with the application of basic physics in my hous as compared with the rest of the world. Thanks again


----------



## jwrjr

Here is a quickie test for leds - check the 'resistance' of the leds , then swap the red and black tester leads and check again. On a good led, you should get current flow (a resistance reading) one way, and infinite resistance the other way. If you don't get an infinite reading (only) one way and there is not something else connected causing it, then the led is bad.
If the reading across the resistor is 0.56 ohms and not 0.56 k ohms, then that is a problem. A 12 volt power supply with an 0.56 ohm resistor will burn out a led almost immediately. The purpose of having you disconnect the power supply is to remove the chance that something else is causing the wierd readings.


----------



## sdhlaw1701

James,
I think I may be on to something, I performed the suggested tests and found infact it was 0.56Kohms accross the red leds however the white leds were giving a reading of 18-20 ohms and the yellow test leds are still reading 171.8 no matter which side of the probe leds touch the anode or cathode. So then I got the idea to take a fresh yellow led and a fresh 510 resistor wire them together. took a 9v battery (really 8.3v) and attached the battery to the proper poles and like a firecracker the led exploded instantly. So what does that mean? I take it that should not happen. At least I do not want this to happen in the enterprse. I am at a total loss. Thanks


----------



## jwrjr

I only know of one thing that will make a led do that. Pushing way too much current makes the vaporize 0 just like what you saw. (the reason that you don't get that with the little keychain lights is the internal resistance of the batteries.) But I don't see how that could happen with a 510 (or 560 = 0.56k) ohm resistor. The color bands on the resistor are green - brown - brown - something else, probably gold, right?


----------



## sdhlaw1701

James, 
I got the LEDs and the resistors from Hong Kong off <a href=http://www.dpbolvw.net/click-1606754-2202639 target=_blank>eBay</a><img src=http://www.awltovhc.com/image-1606754-2202639 width=1 height=1 border=0>. The body of the resistor is blue and the bands are green - brown - black - black - brown. When I run the multi-meter on the resistor by itself I get a reading of 0.56k ohms. Are you as lost as I am?

James- You know sitting around during a hurricane allows you time to think- I think I inadvertaintly left out a critical set of facts that is part of my lighting problem. When I wired up the top half of the saucer (the problem area) I wired 26 white leds each with their own 510ohm resister in serries also wired in that series were 4 yellow leds and two red leds each with their own 510 resistor. When I attached the 12V power source the two red leds light very brightly for jus a sec. and then nothing. I then assumed I could not wire in a complete serries the different color leds so I severed the connections of the yellow and red leds and found all the white then lit. I then made a seperate serries wiring of the yellow and red attached that to the power supply and then nothing. It was at that I made the test strand (again wired in serries) and still no results. Could this be part of the problem? If so why then would the test strand of LEDs not light? and why did the LED explode from the 9V battery? Thanks


----------



## jwrjr

That sounds like 510.0 ohms, 1% ... in which case 560 ohms (0.56k) is out of tolerance. But that does not explain what is happening. Where are you? Or more to the point, how do you feel about popping a couple of the leds and the resistors into an envelope and letting me have a look at them?


----------



## sdhlaw1701

James, 
I am in sunny, well rainy right now, south florida. I would be happy to send you some of the leds. FYI I was adding a comment to my last post almost at the smae time you were responding. Please see post #332 again for some additional info that may help you diagnose. Thanks


----------



## jwrjr

A couple of thoughts come to mind. For one, led + resistor combinations may be freely mixed. The resistors will make up for the differences in the led voltages. 2. Was that resistor (green - brown - black - black - brown) one out of the package, or one from a non-functioning led? Is it possible that the ebay seller mixed up some values? Because 3. What you describe sounds exactly like something is shorted in the res and yellow leds - especially the part about the white leds not working until you disconnected the yellow and red leds.
I live in North Carolina. If you want to send me a couple of each to look at (I'll check them out and return them), contact me privately and I'll give you a street address.


----------



## sdhlaw1701

The resistor colors came from both out of the package and from the non functioning. In fact the led which exploded, the resistor came from a sealed package which was only used on that led. I'll contact you privately. thanks


----------



## Tyboy4umodels

*Inexpensive Lighting Tips Needed for Refit*

Hey gang,
Not to be cheap or anything but does anyone have an inexpensive way to light the Refit? I am looking to spend about $10.00 on lighting. Any help would be appreciated greatly. :wave:


----------



## Cougar184

check ebay for LEDS should get you most of the way there


----------



## Tyboy4umodels

LEDS look great, but where do I start? What is needed to do a kit of this size? What kind of power supply is needed? Any help would be appreciated.Thanks :tongue:


----------



## Cougar184

I used a 9 volt power supply. and bought 50 5mm leds and 50 3mm Leds some resisotors and shrink tube


----------



## Tyboy4umodels

What does a shrink tube look like? :tongue:


----------



## SteveR

Thin-walled black rubber tubing, maybe 1/8 inch diameter, matte finish.

Before joining two wires (or a wire and a component) you slide a short piece of tube over the end of the wire and slide it down, into the part of the wire that still has its insulation. You then solder the connection, and when cool, slide the tubing back up over the connection. It will be loose, so you apply heat with a hair dryer to make it shrink around the connection. 

It basically does the same job as electrical tape, but it's neater, as far as I can tell.


----------



## Tyboy4umodels

Can someone provide a picture,so I know what to look for. Thanks


----------



## Heavens Eagle

You can get shrink tube at Radio Shack. Also a hair dryer will probably not be hot enough. I just use a lighter under it and it shrinks right up. (NOTE: experiment a little, but an inch or 2 of clearance above the flame is usually best) Also rotate the part tubing and wire so as to heat all sides of the tubing.


----------



## cinc2020

I just concluded a meeting with a colleague of mine who is an electrical engineer. He agreed to design the lighting system for my 1/350 Enterprise, and I decided to give him a blank check to go for it. He knows what I want, but I let him develop the most efficient way to achieve the desired effect.

When he comes up with the final product, I'll share the details in the form of a circuit diagram and a laundry list of components. I specifically indicated I do not want a Christmas tree - no bright portholes and no "tanning booth engine grills." We'll see how it goes...


----------



## Heavens Eagle

If he does it where it will do the entire ship with all flashing lights and whatnot, I can do a pc board layout with documentation. I can even port all the needed items (board films, assy drawings, etc) to an adobe acrobat file which then can be used and printed out by anyone with a decent printer.

I used that process for many years earning a living designing and building the prototypes of the designs. Can even do surface mount components, which I found to be easier to use and work with even though they were smaller.


----------



## cinc2020

Good idea. I would love to see a professional job done on electronics related to the NCC-1701. So far, I have found nothing like this out there. I'll keep you posted.


----------



## jwrjr

I find cinc2020's comment about a lack of professional lighting for the refit to be offensive. I've been an EE for more than 20 years, and I have yet to see lighting controls for it better, smaller, or less expensive than the ones that I offer. You can't please everybody, I guess ...


----------



## woozle

You gave an engineer a blank check?


----------



## Steven Coffey

jwrjr said:


> I find cinc2020's comment about a lack of professional lighting for the refit to be offensive. I've been an EE for more than 20 years, and I have yet to see lighting controls for it better, smaller, or less expensive than the ones that I offer. You can't please everybody, I guess ...


Your stuff is great man! I think what every one wants is for it to be completely wired for them .That way they just have to plug it in and it works !It is not a realistic want ! They fail to realize the hours it would take to solder and wire a kit like that .Your Flashers and strobe boards are wonderful! I have tested mine out and it works perfectly and it doesn't take up any space !It is the most relistic strobe light I have seen from a board .The thing is the board is what 2 inches x 1 inch ?It is tiny !


----------



## cinc2020

woozle - I did give the engineer a blank check, but only because I know him very well.  

jwrjr - Perhaps you should advertise better. I'm not aware of your system. Do you have a website? That might be part of the problem - easy access. Customers may not find your services unless they dig through forum entries. You shouldn't assume my comment was a blast at you services - rather, you should assume I was unaware of your work. I would very much like to learn more about what you've done. I actually have DLM's FF circuit board, which is great, by the way. We're using that as a base for the rest of the system right now. The EE I hired thought it was an excellent product.

Steven - Having a system ready to plug in is, in fact, not an unrealistic want. These can be constructed an sold. There is nothing wrong with a model builder looking to have the circuit done for him or her. That's why I hired an EE to do it for me. It's not that I can't deal with electronics, I just don't want to. I am also well aware of the work that goes into things like this, by the way.


----------



## jwrjr

It is true that I don't have a web siteand am known only through this web site, so I will put aside my irritation. It would have been better to say that you were not aware of any professionally designed parts, which would have gotten a different reaction from me. CultTVman carries some of my parts. Controls for almost any model that you want that he doesn't carry you can get directly from me.


----------



## cinc2020

I'll definitely check that out.


----------



## cinc2020

I checked CultTVman and didn't see a lighting kit for the Refit. Do you have such a kit, or a list of products?


----------



## woozle

cinc2020 said:


> woozle - I did give the engineer a blank check, but only because I know him very well.


Giving an engineer a cart blanche is often a good way to end up with something that can be activated by remote control, a daylight sensor, little view screens inside the windows, warp-engine sounds, and can actually fly. Not to imply anything about your friend.. but if I know engineers, they LOVE to change things.


----------



## jwrjr

It's not a full lighting kit for the refit, just the flasher+strobe and photon torpedo controls. Look under 'Roberts Engineering'. He also carries a flasher+strobe with nacelle chasers for the NX. I've lighted or made parts for Runabouts, Enterprise B, TOS Enterprises (3 sizes), and Birds of Prey. Essentially, if you can describe what you want for a model, I'll build a controller for it. (I'm currently working on really accurate warp nacelles for the TOS Enterprise.)


----------



## cinc2020

jwrjr - I may take you up on the offer if my EE friend falls short. I may take you up on it anyway 

woozle - well, he wants to muck around with CCFLs and LightSheet, which is fine with me. So he is exploring all sorts of things. To be more precise, I did give him a budget, but essentially it's enough money to do some experimentation. I also intend to study what he comes up with so I can do some stuff by myself. But you're right - one must be careful when giving engineers and, for that matter, scientists, wide latitude. In my experience, though, politicians with blank checks are more dangerous


----------



## jwrjr

I actually prefer it when somebody asks me to come up with something new.More fun that way. Note to Mr. Coffey - I'm working on a way to make the controllers even smaller (lol). 
I guess that I need to establish that web site. Problem is, photos don't really do justice to what I do.


----------



## bigjimslade

I was curious if anyone knew these light sources on the original model. Some might be external.

1. In STTMP there is a spotlight that hits the middle of the top pylons. In aft shots of the ship being drawn to the central VGER, it looks like there are spotlights aft of the pylons on the upper engineering hull and on the aft saucer. You can see a bright light on this position in the movie but I can't find only on any model shop.

2. The logo lights on the outside aft pylons. I suspect the source is external but could be hidden in the bar underneath.

3. The logo lights on the inside aft pylons. These could be external but their position suggests something coming off the opposite pylon.


----------



## Heavens Eagle

Unfortunately, most of the external spots were really done with external lights. In some cases they used high intensity lights and dental mirrors to reflect a "spot" where they thought it would look good to have a light.

As model builders it has always been a big challenge to us to try and duplicate these "spots" from within the model itself. There have been a couple of ingenious models built that managed to succeed for the most part.


----------



## SteveR

If you see a circular spot (that is "even" or has a hot spot in the center), the source is generally perpendicular to the surface receiving the spot. So if you see one of those on the Enterprise, the source is very likely off-ship. Exceptions might be inboard nacelle spots aiming back at the opposite nacelle, or maybe aiming at the secondary hull.

It _might _ be possible to create a thin elliptical spot which, projected from just the right angle, would actually result in a circular spot. Rosco's Cinegel Tough Silk diffusion material might allow that. However, it's not likely that tricks like that were used in the tiny confines of the RCS thrusters at the end of the warp nacelles, for example. 

Although we as modellers see the integrity of making the lights part of the ship, the constraints of filming are quite different, as you know.
And we've seen that the spots were slightly different from film to film. It's not likely that the crews took the time to document every external lighting setup so as to reproduce it between films with precision.

But, as Heavens Eagle mentioned, other modellers have simulated the spots rather well, sometimes by shining a spot inside the model, allowing it to show through the plastic and the paint.


----------



## bigjimslade

In the Wrath of Khan, when the ship is moving out of the drydock (unused or duplicate footage from STTMP), the logo lights on the insides of the nacelles, a clearly visible. Either:

1. The lights are external and
A. The ship is standing still and the drydock is moving; OR
B. The ship is moving and is rigidly attached to the light source and reflectors.
2. The lights are internal.


----------



## spe130

I always thought the intent was that the inside spotlights were projected from the opposite nacelle.


----------



## RonH

The shot of the Enterprise leaving drydock in WOK was taken from TMP. The ship was stationary. The camera and drydock moved. Up until The Director's Cut, you could see the pipe stand mounted on the left side of the sec hull as the dock moved away.


----------



## Trek Ace

Actually, it was mounted on the right side.


----------



## RonH

Nope. As you look at the ship 'leaving' the drydock, you could see the mount was on the left side as it blocked out the light panels. The right side passed by the camera so there couldn't be one there.


----------



## neosporing

So who is going to use these new quantum LEDs for their refit...

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/9777070/

An accidental discovery announced this week has taken LED lighting to a new level, suggesting it could soon offer a cheaper, longer-lasting alternative to the traditional light bulb. The miniature breakthrough adds to a growing trend that is likely to eventually make Thomas Edison's bright invention obsolete.
Michael Bowers, a graduate student at Vanderbilt University, was just trying to make really small quantum dots, which are crystals generally only a few nanometers big. That's less than 1/1000th the width of a human hair.

Quantum dots contain anywhere from 100 to 1,000 electrons. They're easily excited bundles of energy, and the smaller they are, the more excited they get. Each dot in Bower's particular batch was exceptionally small, containing only 33 or 34 pairs of atoms.

When you shine a light on quantum dots or apply electricity to them, they react by producing their own light, normally a bright, vibrant color. But when Bowers shined a laser on his batch of dots, something unexpected happened.

"I was surprised when a white glow covered the table," Bowers said. "The quantum dots were supposed to emit blue light, but instead they were giving off a beautiful white glow."

Then Bowers and another student got the idea to stir the dots into polyurethane and coat a blue LED light bulb with the mix. The lumpy bulb wasn't pretty, but it produced white light similar to a regular light bulb.

The new device gives off a warm, yellowish-white light that shines twice as bright and lasts 50 times longer than the standard 60 watt light bulb.

This work is published online in the Oct. 18 edition of the Journal of the American Chemical Society.


----------



## drewid142

If you're looking for yet another add-on to use as an excuse for not actually getting started, these look great! I think it'll be good for a nice long run of "can't start" excuses... but they sure look like they could change the way we light models in a big big way... some day!


----------



## Prosta

*Blinky lights*

I am looking for a circuit that can power the 10(?) leds needed for the nav lights. I'm too cheap to fork out the $85 for the Voodoo FX board.

I could only get 5 leds to run on the knockoff I made of the DLM design.

I got a 2 led strobe circuit from Maplins that uses capacitors and transistors for timing. Can this run more LEDs if I up the capacitor or lower the resistors?

I can't read circuit diagrams so if anyone has a PCB design they want to post I'd be very grateful.


----------



## jwrjr

I sell a $25 module (no assembly required) that controls the flashers and strobes for the refit that has the capacity for 10 leds each for both the flashers and strobes.


----------



## fokkerpilot

jwrjr said:


> I sell a $25 module (no assembly required) that controls the flashers and strobes for the refit that has the capacity for 10 leds each for both the flashers and strobes.


I can attest to those modules - good stuff !!


----------



## drewid142

jwrjr... can you say a little more about your unit mentioned above... for lighting newbies... can you adjust brightness and or timing on these? What kind of controls are there?


----------



## jwrjr

The module is not adjustable in any way. You can control the brightness by changeing the value of the resistor you use with each led. The timing is fixed at 1.25 sec. on/1.25 sec. off for the flasher, and 1 83ms pulse per sec. for the strobe. I can email the wiring diagram if you want it. Just give me an email address.
The timing that I used is also used by the NX. That came in useful. Different timing (even adjustable timing) is possible.


----------



## drewid142

Cool. How do I order them?

Thanks, by the way...


----------



## bigjimslade

*Fiber Optics*

I have some LEDs and I have some fiber optic cable given as a gift. How does one get the most light possible from a LED to the cable?


----------



## fokkerpilot

You got mail BigJim


----------



## jwrjr

To drewid142 - I'm not big enough to maintain an official business. So, to order something, send me an email @ [email protected].


----------



## Prosta

$25 I can handle. Sending email. Thanks jwrjr


----------



## bigjimslade

*LED Beam Focusing*

Does anone have any LED focusing techniques they'd care to share for the spots?


----------



## irishtrek

Don't know if this has been coverd just yet but has any one noticed that the outline of the spot lights hitting the side of the secondary hull is different with each trek film? If I light my refit how do I get the light effect that I want?


----------



## SteveR

That's because the spots come from a rig outside the ship. Each time the model is put away, they have to create the setup from scratch, so that's why it doesn't match from film to film.

So pick your film (and pick your shot), and reproduce that look.


----------



## irishtrek

SteveR said:


> That's because the spots come from a rig outside the ship. Each time the model is put away, they have to create the setup from scratch, so that's why it doesn't match from film to film.
> 
> So pick your film (and pick your shot), and reproduce that look.


Always wondered about that now I know. thanks! :thumbsup:


----------



## bigjimslade

*Light Color*

Does anyone know what color the flashing lights on other side of the impulse engine are? I have seem some references saying they are white. However, I was watching the Wrath of Khan and the right light was hardly visible, suggesting it might be green (and the other red).


----------



## GLU Sniffah

^ They're formation lights. Thus...white.


----------



## fokkerpilot

Aye, they are white.


----------



## irishtrek

What color they are depends on what movie you're whatching


----------



## Garbaron

Yeah as does the main hull color…from silver/white (TMP), to white (STV), to light grey (TWOK), to medium grey (partially in TUC), to ivory white (look of the studio model after TUC).

I mean you can do the ivory colored Refit with the yellow nav lights, or the silver/white one with the white nav lights, or the grey one with the yellow, or the white with the white……

And then of course you have to take into account the different flood light setups for the different movies too… so you do the silver/white one with the yellow nav lights featuring the flood lights effect as seen in TWOK? 

….need I say more?

I’d say the nav lights are always SUPPOSED to be white! And the flood light always should look like they did in TMP. 

It all just depended on the lighting setup and the FX guys who worked on the various effects which resulted in the nav lights appear more white or yellowish and variation in the flood lights too.


Juts my 2


----------



## irishtrek

Sttop you're confusing me, probably others as well!!


----------



## Garbaron

You are confused easily my friend

Well I was just saying that the Enterprise appeared different in every of the movies. 
But the actually Ship (studio model that is) always looked the same and it was just the effects guys and lighting setup that make here look different.


The nav lights ARE white! ALLWAYS regardless what they may look like in some of the feature films.


----------



## fokkerpilot

Garbaron said:


> The nav lights ARE white! ALLWAYS regardless what they may look like in some of the feature films.


 
Garbaron speaks wisdom :lol:


----------



## woozle

Generally, we all expect that it SHOULD look like it did in TMP and the later movies took half measures.


----------



## Raist3001

Garbaron said:


> The nav lights ARE white! ALLWAYS regardless what they may look like in some of the feature films.


The navagational lights are the strobes. Is this correct?


----------



## Garbaron

woozle said:


> Generally, we all expect that it SHOULD look like it did in TMP and the later movies took half measures.?


Exactly! 

The Refit (or A that is) should ALLWAYS look like she did in TMP. 
Too bad ILM never achieved the look in any of the preceding movies again  




Raist3001 said:


> The navagational lights are the strobes. Is this correct?


Yepp…the nav lights are the strobes 

The others are called positioning lights, by looking at the color of the positioning lights you can see if the ship approaches you (red on the left side) or gains distance (red on the right side)  

(good I only hope I did not mix the red and green lights again  ).


----------



## fokkerpilot

Nav lights and strobes are like apples and oranges. Nav lights (also known as positions lighting) can either be steady state or flashing; usually in a red, white, green combination. Strobes are just another independent lighting system which may or may not operate in unison with the navigation lighting used as an "attention getting' lighting effect and also know anti-collision lights ( in the aviation world ).

I hope this straightens this out before we end up with deflector dishes flashing.


----------



## Raist3001

fokkerpilot said:


> Nav lights and strobes are like apples and oranges. Nav lights (also known as positions lighting) can either be steady state or flashing; usually in a red, white, green combination. Strobes are just another independent lighting system which may or may not operate in unison with the navigation lighting used as an "attention getting' lighting effect and also know anti-collision lights ( in the aviation world ).
> 
> I hope this straightens this out before we end up with deflector dishes flashing.


Well, I am trying to understand which lights flash, which strobe, and what the colors are. What I have so far is the following:

4 STROBE locations (WHITE):
Top of bridge
Bottom center of secondary hull (middle of phaser quad)
Top rear of each nacelle

10 Running lights
Saucer Port top/btm RED
Saucer Starboard top/btm GREEN
Saucer bow top/btm WHITE
Saucer top flanking impulse engine (2) YELLOW
Secondary hull fantail underside (flood light housing) YELLOW
Secondaty hull above hanger bay doors YELLOW

Is this correct?


----------



## Garbaron

To make it simple:

Saucer:
All the lights at the saucer rim are “positioning lights”, the ones next to the impulse engines too. The “anti collision light” just behind the bridge dome above the docking port “strobes” at about each second for the fraction of a second. 

The colors are: 
port side top/btm RED 
starboard side top/btm GREEN
bow is top/btm WHITE 
anti collision above bridge docking port is WHITE


Secondary hull:
There is a ”positioning light” at the rib at the top of the secondary hull, just above the bay doors and centred at the rectangular box below the fantail, color is WHITE. “Anti collision light” seated between the lower hull four phaser banks, color is WHITE 


Warp nacelles:
One “anti collision light” at the rear end of each nacelle, color is WHITE. 


Timing for the lights:

“Positioning Lights: “blink” at an 1 - 2 sec interval with a similar pause in-between each „blinks“.

“Anti collision lights”: “strobe” each second for the fraction for a second.


Oh and a flashing deflector dish…that would be something new


----------



## Raist3001

Garbaron said:


> Warp nacelles:
> One “anti collision light” at the rear end of each nacelle, color is WHITE.



Weren't these made red and green or the E-A?


----------



## Garbaron

No. Just watch TUC when she heads into the sun..they are white.


----------



## Raist3001

Are the lights flanking the impulse engine white or yellow? Do they blink in unison with the outer rim (red/green/white) lights?


----------



## RonH

http://trek5.com/caps/films/06_tuc/7_fly/ST06_1028.htm


----------



## fokkerpilot

The lights abeam the Impulse blink in unison with all Navigation lighting. They are white - which includes the nav lighting on the top-aft nacelles......all in unison


----------



## Garbaron

Raist3001 said:


> Are the lights flanking the impulse engine white or yellow? Do they blink in unison with the outer rim (red/green/white) lights?


Tony I send you an e-mail...hope this clears it for you.

And yes the lights flanking the impulse engine are WHITE, and yes they blink at unison with the outer rim positioning lights.


----------



## Raist3001

Garbaron said:


> Tony I send you an e-mail...hope this clears it for you.
> 
> And yes the lights flanking the impulse engine are WHITE, and yes they blink at unison with the outer rim positioning lights.


Thorston,

Thanks for the great clips! It helped very much.

OK, one last question. Regarding the lights located on the aft Nacelles. In your clips Thorston, they appear to be strobe lights. It seems there is some confusion as to weather or not they are navigational lights that should blink in unison with the outer rim saucer lights. Am I just confusing myself further or are the aft nacelle lights strobes?


----------



## Garbaron

Tony……

You are very welcome…always glad if I can help. 

And take my word and that of Andy Probert…what you see in my clips is as it should be!

But in case you don’t believe me though…take your copy of TMP and skip to the scene when the Surak (Spock's Shuttle) arrives. You have a very nice aft view shot of the pearl lady and you can VERY WELL see that the anti collision lights at the end of the nacelles are strobes. 

So stop thinking about it…you got all the info you need on this!


----------



## Raist3001

Garbaron said:


> So stop thinking about it…you got all the info you need on this!


Well said my friend. Thanks to you and Jack, I have all the info I need to light the pearl lady

I have begun work on my new build. This one will have no seams, and will be lit with flashing navigational lights and strobes. I'll keep you all updated.

Once again, I just want to thank you all who have taken the time to answer my questions. You guys are the best!!

Tony


----------



## fokkerpilot

I stand corrected Tony. Garbaron is quite right that the aft nacelle lights are indeed strobes. I even tossed in the DVD bonus features disc and saw it coming straight at me. I'm going to look at a few other movie shots too. But Garbaron has the answer to this mystery. So it is said, so it shall be written.


----------



## fokkerpilot

I was reviewing TWK and I had found that the Saucer lights, next to the impulse dome were white in one shot and later red/green in another. Lighting is in the eye of the beholder. Let's build.


----------



## vaderknight

Hello, all. New member aboard.

I just bought the PL Refit on Friday, and I'm a nervous wreck about what to do to light this bad boy up. I agree that the kits begs to be lighted, and this is my first attempt. Mr. Coffey sent me a diagram for LED placement, but I might not use as many as are in the schematic. I do, however, plan to use around 30 LED's for this project (many of them white LED's with a couple of red, green, and yellow for the strobes, RCS thrusters, etc.). Just wanted to pop in and say "Hey, I just jumped in the same boat as you and show the world how beautiful the PL Refit can be when lit up.


----------



## Garbaron

Welcome aboard and good luck


----------



## bigjimslade

*Star Trek Lightin is Confusing*



Garbaron said:


> Exactly!
> 
> 
> Yepp…the nav lights are the strobes
> 
> The others are called positioning lights, by looking at the color of the positioning lights you can see if the ship approaches you (red on the left side) or gains distance (red on the right side)


Man this is confusing....I my airplane, I have the following exterior light switches labelled:

NAV: Turns on the steady green (right and forward), red (left and forward) and white (rear) lights.
Beacon: Turns on the flashing Red light
Strobe: Turns on the flashing wing tip strobes.
Landing: Turns on the steady the wing "headlights"
Taxi: Turns on the steady nosegear "headlights"
Recog[nition]: Make the landing lights on the wings alternate on and off.

[Not on mine] Formation lights are relatively dim steady burning lights.
[Not on mine] Logo lights are mounted at the wing tips to illuminate the tail.

The beacon is turned on any time the engine is expected to run. The strobes (and transponder) go on at "cleared for takeup" and go off after landing and clear of the runway when the flaps get raised.

Star Trek terminology apparently is nothing like that on airplanes.


----------



## Garbaron

Apparently no.

Look here:
http://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/blueprints/star-trek-the-motion-picture-sheet-2.jpg

These are the official TMP blue prints of the Refit.

The strobes (above bridge docking port, belly of secondary hull and end of warp nacelles) are called “Navigational lights”

The lights at port, bow and starboard of the saucer are called “Running lights” (“Positioning lights” on another set of blue prints)

And the two flanking the impulse engine and above shuttle bay are called “Formation lights” 

It seams Trek technobabale is only loosely based on avionic terminology.


----------



## vaderknight

bkoski said:


> Hi everybody:
> Had to join in the discussions. I've been reading these threads for a few weeks and I'm just as excited as everybody about this new Enterprise refit. Had to join in. When I learned of its imminent arrival early last year I contemplated how I was going to build it, light it, paint it. Kind of sad, though, I had all the modification kits and improved decals and a smoothie Enterprise, and then found out this was coming. I'm sure that's a repeat story with many of you. Glad to hear aztec templates are included. However, the lighting still has me worried, BUT, I found a site and in email conversations with the company have learned that they are planning to create a complex lighting kit for the Big E (they were just waiting for it to release to work it all out). They currently don't have any information within the site regarding this intention, but the site is:
> http://www.voodoofx.com/


I think I'm missing something here. I didn't see any aztec templates with my kit. Then again, I bought my Refit at the local hobby shop. :tongue:


----------



## ccbor

bigjimslade said:


> Man this is confusing....I my airplane, I have the following exterior light switches labelled:
> 
> NAV: Turns on the steady green (right and forward), red (left and forward) and white (rear) lights.
> Beacon: Turns on the flashing Red light
> Strobe: Turns on the flashing wing tip strobes.
> Landing: Turns on the steady the wing "headlights"
> Taxi: Turns on the steady nosegear "headlights"
> Recog[nition]: Make the landing lights on the wings alternate on and off.
> 
> [Not on mine] Formation lights are relatively dim steady burning lights.
> [Not on mine] Logo lights are mounted at the wing tips to illuminate the tail.
> 
> The beacon is turned on any time the engine is expected to run. The strobes (and transponder) go on at "cleared for takeup" and go off after landing and clear of the runway when the flaps get raised.
> 
> Star Trek terminology apparently is nothing like that on airplanes.



Your a pilot? What are you rated on? 

Rob


----------



## Vaderman

John P said:


> I'll be building my first one without lighting, just to get one done. But I definitely want to light one, even though i have NO idea how to do it, just because it's way too big to NOT light.


John,

Finally going to the Dark Side....I mean the light side. You are taking a big step into a larger world.

Scott


----------



## bigjimslade

ccbor said:


> Your a pilot? What are you rated on?


Airplane, Single Engine Land, Instrument


----------



## bigjimslade

*Illuminating the Saucer Top*

Thought I have heard claims of impossibility, I have seen some models that illuminate the saucer top numbers from the the bridge area.

It looks to my that it should be possible. Has anyone got it to work willing to share what they did?

Lighting tip of my own:

For the deflector disk:
1. Use Rustoleum frosted glass on the outside of the dish.
2. Paint the piece (the one with the hole in the center) behind the dish COPPER.
3. Get a 5mm high intensity BLUE LED and cut the tip off.
4. Mount the LED in the hole.
5. Wire the LED to a pot.

Having done this you will have:
A. Eliminated the bright white spot in the center of the dish many models show.
B. By adjusting the light intensity using the pot you get both the copper color and blue colors of the movie.


----------



## Refit

bigjimslade said:


> Lighting tip of my own:
> 
> For the deflector disk:
> 1. Use Rustoleum frosted glass on the outside of the dish.
> 2. Paint the piece (the one with the hole in the center) behind the dish COPPER.
> 3. Get a 5mm high intensity BLUE LED and cut the tip off.
> 4. Mount the LED in the hole.
> 5. Wire the LED to a pot.
> 
> Having done this you will have:
> A. Eliminated the bright white spot in the center of the dish many models show.
> B. By adjusting the light intensity using the pot you get both the copper color and blue colors of the movie.



Interesting.... Do you happen to have any photographs that illustrate this technique?


Wayne


----------



## Garbaron

^

What he said, I'd aslo like to see the finished result of this technique!


----------



## bigjimslade

Garbaron said:


> ^
> 
> What he said, I'd aslo like to see the finished result of this technique!


It's in the paint booth now getting the exterior done....thus it is all covered with masking tape. I'll take some pictures when done.

In the mean time someone may be able to answer *MY* question.


----------



## bigjimslade

Refit said:


> Interesting.... Do you happen to have any photographs that illustrate this technique?


Here's a picture with the lights off. You can see the copper tone close to what you get in the movie.

I have not been able to get a good one with the lights on because my Digital Camera insists on flashing. However, there is no trace of the copper color with the blue LED on full. It is a dispersed blue (assuming you cut the tip of the LED off - otherwise you get a small white spot in the center.


----------



## SteveR

bigjimslade said:


> 3. Get a 5mm high intensity BLUE LED and cut the tip off.


Nice solution. Thanks for the, er, tip. :thumbsup:


----------



## bigjimslade

It appears to me that the opening for the bridge lights is too narrow (compare URL). 

http://www.cloudster.com/Sets&Vehicles/STMPEnterprise/STMPent38.jpg 

This may account for the problems lighting the saucer. Again, if anyone has solved the upper saucer lighting problem, I would love to hear how.


----------



## bigjimslade

*Mounting Posts on the Bridge*

It is just me of did Polar Lights put the mounting posts for the bridge and under source structure exactly where the LEDs need to go for lighting?


----------



## Heavens Eagle

I believe that Thomas has said somewhere on this forum that the LED points were turned into mounting posts by the mold maker. DoH! Talk about Homers.


----------



## ThomasModels

That is correct. The holes were called out in the tooling specs and the shop turned them into mounting pins on the bridge and on the lower array.


----------



## bigjimslade

I managed to fabricate an LED light mount out of some plastruct I-bar for the forward bridge lights. This mount illuminates the upper saucer with the same pattern as in the movies.

You have to cut a retangular hole in the upper saucer under the bridge in order to align the centers of the LEDs with the slit.


----------



## SteveR

I'm planning to use spherical beads for some LED mounts where possible. The bead's center hole will be enlarged to fit an LED, then the bead will be epoxied into place with the LED hooked up. While the epoxy sets, the spot can be aimed at its target by swivelling the bead. At least in theory.


----------



## bigjimslade

Am I correct here. In regard to the white lights above (near phasers) and below (on mount with other light facing forward) that

In STTMP, these lights are steady.
In STTWOK, these lights blink


----------



## justinleighty

bigjimslade said:


> Am I correct here. In regard to the white lights above (near phasers) and below (on mount with other light facing forward) that
> 
> In STTMP, these lights are steady.
> In STTWOK, these lights blink


Could you elaborate on exactly which lights you're seeking information? "Above near phasers" and "below on mount with other light facing forward" is a bit confusing.


----------



## bigjimslade

Sorry, I meant to say above and below the hangar doors.


----------



## Prosta

bigjimslade said:


> Sorry, I meant to say above and below the hangar doors.


I have them blinking in time with the red & green (nav?) lights


----------



## Garbaron

That's how it hould be


----------



## marc111

bigjimslade said:


> I managed to fabricate an LED light mount out of some plastruct I-bar for the forward bridge lights. This mount illuminates the upper saucer with the same pattern as in the movies.
> 
> You have to cut a retangular hole in the upper saucer under the bridge in order to align the centers of the LEDs with the slit.


 Jim,
Any chance you could post a picture of thie setup with the Ibeam. I have been noodling over the same problem.
Thanks,
Mark


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## bigjimslade

marc111 said:


> Jim,
> Any chance you could post a picture of thie setup with the Ibeam. I have been noodling over the same problem.
> Thanks,
> Mark


The battery on my Digital Camera gave up its ghost so there will be some delay. I pondered for a long time over how to mount the lights in the upper saucer and finally came up with an engineering solution -- now trying to artistically implement.

I removed the center mounting post in order to make room for the two forward lights. I used to the other two posts to mount two additional lights. I drilled a 3/32 hole all the way through and 1/8 about a quarter of the way through and mount some LEDs that have been thinned in a drill.

It seemed to me the side lights should have been a bit off center to the mounting posts but I compromised there.

I am building a "light box" for all three of the lower bridge lighting locations. I plan to have stainless steel reflectors in the back.

Keep in mind that in order to light the saucer top (albeit dimly) the light opening has to be at least .008" high (.007 Does not work). I belive the kit has it .003.

Also, I have the forward lights mounted through the deck. I cut a rectangular hole in the top of the saucer so that I could mount the forward LEDs with their tips even with the opening. I'm going to have to enlarge the hole for the mounting pins to do the same with the side lights.

The lower saucer is next.

I am undergoing a bit of frustation right now. I had [so I thought] completed the hangar unit, only to discover I had the Dr. Who problem -- bigger on the inside than on the outside. My main problem was that I had created square holes for windows near the hangar door and I did not realize how little room was left. The fit at the stern top was very tight as well. It fit but there was no tolerance. I decided to remove all of my lighting and start over nearly from scratch (about 25 LEDs all together).

On thing I found frustrating is that, due to the forward cross beam and the vertical beam from the top that rests on the forward hold roof, is that I can't get a light at the very forward part of the hold.


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## marc111

Thanks for the further words of explanation Jim. Hope the camera comes back on line soon.
Mark


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## fokkerpilot

You'll probably want to build a light box for the impulse engine area too while you're at it. 

Jack


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## bigjimslade

Does anyone have any technique for logo lighting the inner and outer nacelles?

I have tested some light mounts for the outer nacele in the square perpendicular part but without much success. 

For the inner nacelle logos someone must have found a good place to mount a spotlight.

Anyone with success willing to share?


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## SteveR

Until that one gets answered, here's mine: I might have to wet sand with electronics in place. Does anyone have any tips on waterproofing the exposed connections?


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## fokkerpilot

SteveR said:


> Until that one gets answered, here's mine: I might have to wet sand with electronics in place. Does anyone have any tips on waterproofing the exposed connections?


You may want to try using Locktite 5 minute epoxy; using a toothpick to coat you bare leads and wiring. It's been working for me with great success.


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## Guest

bigjimslade said:


> Does anyone have any technique for logo lighting the inner and outer nacelles?
> 
> I have tested some light mounts for the outer nacele in the square perpendicular part but without much success.
> 
> For the inner nacelle logos someone must have found a good place to mount a spotlight.
> 
> Anyone with success willing to share?


Well here's one answer, backlighting and i did the whole lighting deal with this in mind though the pics are only of a lighting test model, shot in a darkened room and with a less than co-operative digital camera so the pics are pretty poor (not my best effort by a long way).
Oh, sorry i don't have any other pics apart from what's on my site and i don't have the model in my posession now so no new stuff untill i've done the next refit.

All the lighting was 5mm and 3mm white LED only, interior was covered with self adhesive foil tape to stop light bleed and spread the light about a bit.

http://www.raytheon.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/web pics/pl1701a/rearspots.jpg 

http://www.raytheon.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/web pics/pl1701a/rearlight.jpg 

http://www.raytheon.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/web pics/pl1701a/scondaryhullsidelight.jpg 

And that's about it, hope it's of some small help.


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## SteveR

Do you guys calculate 20mA for all colours of LEDs, or bias it slightly differently for different colours? I remember reading that white and blue should be spec'ed a little lower.

Thanks ...


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## jwrjr

I pick led current not by color, but by intended brightness. For example, spotlights get more current than windows.


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## Chuck_P.R.

I keep hearing that Lightsheet will *soon* be available to the general public every year or so, with invitations to "industry professionals" who need the product for business reasons to contact Lightsheet.

I read years and years ago that this was due to family illness.
Totally understandable.

But I would sincerely like to know what Lightsheet products are available and ready to ship at this very moment, prices, links to the appropriate website, and how long will it take a non-industry insider to receive the real product?

Shouldn't be more the 3-4 days via USPS priority mail for most people if they paid for it up front.

Is Lightsheet doing business with the general public yet?


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## SteveR

jwrjr said:


> I pick led current not by color, but by intended brightness. For example, spotlights get more current than windows.


Hey, thanks, jwrjr. Along those lines, I'm considering a pot for tweaking the window lights. Any tips on calculating the appropriate value for maybe 60 white LEDs?


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## jwrjr

I'm old fashioned - I use 1 resistor = 1 led (occasionally 2 leds in series) That being established, I used 12 v. and 1.5 k resistors. But I used more leds than most. So in your case I would start with 1k for a couple of the leds, mount them temporarily, and see how it looks.


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## SteveR

Thanks.


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## bigjimslade

SteveR said:


> Do you guys calculate 20mA for all colours of LEDs, or bias it slightly differently for different colours? I remember reading that white and blue should be spec'ed a little lower.


I calculate the resistance based upon the recommended current for the particular LED.


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## Guest

*Just some pics of the beginning of the lighting hoo-ha*

Greetings all,
for some reason that escapes me i thought i'd just run up this small lot of work in progress pics of the PL refit with maybe a small insight into the backlighting issue.

Here be the pics 

Basic info but what the heck, hope you find it of some use


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## frontline

I like your approach very much. Couple of questions though. why not also do the side lights under the sensor dome? Also where did you get the silver tape at?


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## Guest

Well as to the side lights under the sensor dome, i was running through TMP and WOK to get the basis of the lighting and the side lights only really show up as visible light splashes on the saucer hull in just one shot in TMP.

Thats the forward view when all the lights are on just before she leaves spacedock for the first time. Even into Search For Spock the side lights never seem to show up as the same light splash as the forward and rear.
As a note, i have old editions taken from VHS tapes and put onto DVD, none of the new DVD versions so i make no assumptions about any changes there may be effects wise in the new issues.

As to the tape, many years ago i first picked that up at some hardware stores here in the UK but it's becoming difficult to find 'on the shelf' these days, the only option i had was online suppliers or evilbay as it happens evilbay came to the rescue in my case.

For the US side o' things if you google for aluminum foil tape or even do that search on evilbay then you may just find somebody selling the stuff.

Hope that helps


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## JadesDarkHeart

You can get this tape at Lowes here in the states. 

JDH


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## Guest

frontline said:


> *SNIP* why not also do the side lights under the sensor dome? *SNIP*


Had a goodthink about this one today frontline and to be honest, why not i thought, pics redone and updated to here for the saucer underside ,just scroll to the bottom of the page.

Top saucer pics can be found here and here

More pics as time goes on.
Later troops !


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## enterprise_fan

I was thinking of taking that approach but the big question has not been asked yet. *What will it look like with the aztec painting and decals in place?*


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## klgonsneedbotox

I have seen this on a couple of models and the results, at least via the photos I have seen, look pretty good. You would probably have to experment a bit with the paint in these areas and modify your approach (at least to these lighted areas) to get the best results. What you will almost definitely see are more pronounced grid lines. These areas (the main grid lines) are the thinnest and therefore will show the most light. I guess that could be corrected somewhat by trying to get some paint into those grid areas, but it would probably be necessary to sacrific some of the external grid line definition to do so.

If you look at the second underside saucer picture, you will see what I mean.

All in all, a neat approach to a tricky lighting situtation. :thumbsup: 

My guess is, if your goal is to have that defined spotlight look on you finished product, you won't mind the surface detail adjustments you have to make to achieve the internal lighting of the external spots (does that sound like double talk or what?) :freak:


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## frontline

Raytheon said:


> Had a goodthink about this one today frontline and to be honest, why not i thought, pics redone and updated to here for the saucer underside ,just scroll to the bottom of the page.
> 
> Top saucer pics can be found here and here
> 
> More pics as time goes on.
> Later troops !


Looking pretty good there. Yeah driving around today I had the smae thought pop into my mind about the grid lines..but I see someone with far more experience than me has brought up those points


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## klgonsneedbotox

One other thought...

I'm curious what affect adding an externally aimed light would have? Those lights that point to the outside of the ship (like mine) usually can't create the ultimate desired effect but maybe a combination of the methods would? I'm thinking that if you left those spolight areas unpainted (??) on the exterior and then applied your aztec to just those areas with one pattern being gloss clear and the other dull clear (and maybe a semi finish in there too) - then combine that with a little exterior lighting...

Who knows...maybe that would create an interesting look...I don't have the "spare parts" to try that out but I'd be interested to see or hear about it if someone did...


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## Marco Scheloske

enterprise_fan said:


> What will it look like with the aztec painting and decals in place?


I tested this on my unused secondary hull bottom - my approach to the aztecing is just t use different clear coates for it, and with that method it looks pretty cool...

Greetings from Germany
Marco


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## Guest

What Marco said is quite correct. :thumbsup: 

The clear or pearl effect paints if thinned, work well with very little problem. I did just that on my first PL refit however it almost vaishes due to my poor photgraphy in the dark skills and the fact that my digital camera don't seem to like shooting in low light/ dark conditions.

As the the grid lines, on my first one i used a wash of dark sea grey in the grid lines during the painting and that seems to do the trick. Though a wash is all you need and it had best be kept quite thin so as not to appear too dark and bold, i have some experimenting to do in this dept. i'll report back as soon as i have anything concrete.

My intent here is to have the lighting appear obvious in a room with no lights on, a bit like i did with my 22 TOS inch Ent but the lighting on this puppy is a somewhat different ballgame. Mucho foiling and building to do before i'm at any kinda done stage.

If nowt else i'll try to keep a regular update of the lighting hoo-ha going.

That's it for me and lunchtime is about here so untill the next round of fun and games, take care folks !


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## justinleighty

Yeah, a wash is the way to go to fill in grid lines (it's not a bad idea to paint shadows for the phaser bumps, too). The biggest drawback to this approach is apparent when you have colored decals. 

When backlit, everything appears black, such that the main hull registry numbers will look like black characters with black outlines, rather than black characters with red outlines.


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## Guest

Not absolutely correct justin but i do know what you mean. Depends on the decals and the paintwork. Even in my bad darkness shots of my first one you can still pick out the red but it's certainly not brilliant red.










This is one of the many issues to address while i and doubtless a few others are wrestling with this problem. 
And your spot on about the shadows on the phaser bumps, that occured some time back to me as well, niggly details, it's them that's the problem ain't it  

Wadda life!


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## SteveR

I'd like to create separate series/parallel LED arrays for different parts of the ship, say, one array for the lights attached to a flasher board, one array for the primary hull interior, one array for the hangar lights and so on. These arrays would then be connected in series, but here's the challenge: I'd like to connect a trim pot to each array to tweak its brightness. In other words, I'd like to make sure the hangar isn't too bright, that the interior lights are dimmer than the strobes, and so on.

But I don't know where the pots should go in the circuit, or even if this would work. I don't know much about electronics, but I think it's not a good idea to place a variable resistor in a parallel circuit, and if it's placed in a series circuit, it cannot be set up to affect only one part of the series circuit.

So do you guys know if it's possible to use trim pots to tweak the brightness of separate circuits in the refit?

Thanks,
Steve


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## jwrjr

In doing this (the trim pots), be sure to check the power rating of the pot. These things are not usually rated for much power, and you need to be careful of the risk of burning them out.


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## spe130

It might be best to tweak the system before final assembly, and replace the pots with resitstors at approximately the same value.


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## SteveR

spe130 said:


> It might be best to tweak the system before final assembly, and replace the pots with resitstors at approximately the same value.


That's a good idea, since I don't need to adjust them after final assembly.

So both you and jwrjr think that placing a pot (then a resistor, eventually) in series, "upstream" of a particular array will only affect _that _ array, and not the whole circuit?

(please pardon my resistor ignorance)


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## spe130

I take it you have several circuits branching off of the power supply, with the pots inline? If so, then yes, that pot will only change the brightness of the "downstream" LEDs.


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## SteveR

spe130 said:


> I take it you have several circuits branching off of the power supply, with the pots inline? If so, then yes, that pot will only change the brightness of the "downstream" LEDs.


Righto. And if a resistor (or pot) affects all circuits downstream, if we go further downstream adding a resistor (or pot) before each circuit, each circuit will be dimmer than the one before it?


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## jwrjr

What spe130 said.


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## spe130

SteveR said:


> Righto. And if a resistor (or pot) affects all circuits downstream, if we go further downstream adding a resistor (or pot) before each circuit, each circuit will be dimmer than the one before it?


As long as they're all strung together, and not separate taps from the original power source.


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## SteveR

Thanks, gents.


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## Guest

*A few lighting test pics*

Greetings folks,
Just a wee update to the refit lighting fun and games. Almost done the saucer, the results so far are at the bottom half of this page 

Well that's all untill tomorrow, assuming i muster up enough courage for another spell in the hellhole that is :freak: 

Take care all.


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## starmanmm

I have not been at this thread for awhile. Nice work there Raytheon!


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## Guest

Ta Muchly, so far so good.
Still, like so many others plodding on with the beastie.


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## Heavens Eagle

The idea with the backlighting isn't a bad one. A suggestion though; If you have an airbrush, you might try "softening" the edges of the lighted areas a tad especially at the outermost edges. This can be done with an airbrush on the inside with some black paint right at the edges of the foil.

Yeah, I know in space there is no air to diffuse the light, but then again a projected light source over a large area if not focused (and with the distance variance it can't be) will diffuse slightly at further distances.


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## Guest

The backlighting thing seemed to work ok with the first one i did but your point is well made and i understand where your coming from.

Already got that in mind about softening of edges, that's going to be tackled on the exterior with the primary gloss white coat.
Pigments in gloss paints are a less concentrated than matt as a rule of thumb so a bit of careful work with the trusty ole Badger and it will get sorted.

As with a lot of things, looks dynamite in theory, the practise may be another thing but we'll see how that all pans out.


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## Rogue1

I think the backlighting looks great so far!

I'm interested to see how it looks with the decals on. Unless the decals are translucent, it seems to me they will be dark while the area around them is illuminated. I imagine they must also be trimmed very close to the image to avoid a dim outline of clear decal material.

Good luck and keep posting your progress!


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## Guest

The first try with decals was the stock ones from the kit on my first refit build, seemed ok but word has it the PNT ones are very thin and of exceptional quality going by those who have tried them so i'm going to be sending for a set of those soon and we'll see what occours.

Thanks for the good luck wishes. I may well need some 'fore this one is done with


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## starseeker

I backlit my Ertl Refits. What I did there was paint the insides of the parts flat black, sanded the points where I wanted light to shine thru down to the bare plastic. That gave me control over how soft the edge would be - pretty sharp for the smaller spots, pretty soft for the far edges of the large illuminated spots. I also lined the opposite sides wherever I could with bare metal foil, tho in a model with lots of electrical wires and connections, that can cause problems if you're not careful with insulation. Also, when backlighting you have to be careful to keep anything inside the model, esp wires, from casting shadows on the backside of the place you're lighting. All that said, the technigue is dead simple and it looks quite good, at least in 1/570. On the PL refit, I am going to try at least some areas with surface light.


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## SteveR

starseeker said:


> I backlit my Ertl Refits.


Got pictures?


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## cinc2020

SteveR-

I agree. What's with all the words n stuff, anyway? 

Gimme some pics.


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## Guest

*Just a little update snippet*

How do all!

Managed to take a wee bit o' time off from the DIY due to oddly co-oprative wallpaper going up as it should.
So off to the hell hole to sort a small bit of lighting work. Just the front end of the secondary hull, see how the rest of this week goes.

PNT decals ordered as well so with a couple of weeks afore they turn up time to see if the shuttle bay can be figured into the mix. The shuttle bay wasn't part of the main plan. 
The yay or nay will depend on if it will cause problems in lighting the ships name on the fantail, got a few ideas but we'll see how that all comes off in due course.


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## Guest

cinc2020 said:


> SteveR-
> 
> I agree. What's with all the words n stuff, anyway?
> 
> Gimme some pics.



I'll go along with that but i'll just add a 'please' to it


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## cinc2020

Ok.


Please.


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## Guest

A couple of small updates, bottom half page 4 Just a tryout to see how things are shaping up. 

After a few test tryouts the fate of the hangar bay is hangin' in the balance as it seems it may block the ship name lightup on the fantail i am after, all is not lost though, one last trick to try.

That is all for now gang untill i can get some more time in my fave retreat.


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## Guest

*More lighting lunacy*

How do folks :wave: 
Another one in the seemingly interminable update situation gang.
Hangar bay was a bust so that's not part of it anymore.

Basic assembly of the secondary hull complete, lighting tested, the result be here

Next up, going to have a shot at getting the neck put in place, cleanup on the joins and panel lines and then make a start on the lightbleed situation to cure those problems. Oh the fun of it all.


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## The Trekmodeler

Great work Raytheon! I like the interconnecting dorsal support idea. On the last one I did I used a a huge bolt. Maybe I'll try this next time.


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## Guest

Coming form you Trek, that's a great compliment 

For info purposes, the support is nothing more complicated than a single length of brass tube or two tubes to be precise. One just slotted inside the other and soldered both ends, i went for a trade off between strength and what was enough space for all the wiring to run down.

It's secured to the secondary hull under the surface by way of a 3mm pin and a fair wedge of epoxy. The top where it goes into the saucer will be secured with a small brass plate and a 3mm pin, again the epoxy will be brought into play here.

Finally, the bottom will have an extra outer sleeve of brass tube as a final support. This should bring the pole to a max of about 12mm diameter

Seem to do the trick on my first one so just stuck with what seemed to work. That and just being too damn lazy to think up anything different


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## sponder

*rgb lightning*

hey peoples, 

let me introduce meself quickly:
im sponder, a dutch trekkie, who started moddeling a while a go (still havent finished my first model lol..)
anyway, the reason why im posting:
first of all, im a bit of a technical, computer, control freak.
i was thinking of lightning models, just because, well i dont have to tell you guys, it adds more realism and kewlness to youre models.
only, the thing is, i dont just want lights and thats it. Again, im a control freak.
Also, i dont want to design a new circuit for every model i build, so the search was on for a more complete sollution; which i found and would like to share with you.

here it is:
a board, able to control 13 RGB leds (thats a red-green-blue light in 1 led.) with this card, you can control the color of the led, you have 16 million colors available (think of windows colors) per led. you can also control the brightness of each led, so no more ****-ing around with resistors etc.
color and brightness just right. nice.
also, you can use very simple scripts to control your leds. so, several navigation blinking lights, in whatever color / speed? no problem! it all works stand alone, no pc needed so far.

still want more control? hehe here goes:
the card has a RS232 port, so you can hook it up to youre pc on a serial port.
then use youre pc to send additional scripts to the card. (for example, i heard about some guy who wrote a script, which lets the leds shine in the color of the level in unreal tourn. which he was playing, so when he walks in unreal into a red room, the leds light up red, blue room, blue light etc.) how nice is that? so possibilities are endless. create a plugin for winamp and you have a disco-enterprise, you get the picture..

what if i need more than 13 leds, i hear you think? again, no worries:
each card has its own unique address, so you can hook up 254 cards to one serial port. (thats over 3000 leds!!) still not enough? ok, use another serial port for an additional 3000 leds..

[offtopic]
after reading a bit further, i found out that you can also use these cards in combination with 3 Watt RGB spotlights, so if you want you can also use this system as room / ambient lightning, besides youre models.
[/offtopic]

I wish i could say i designed and build the system myself, but unfortunatly, im not that smart :drunk: 
so all credits go to Gerry Duprey from http://www.rgbled.org, where you also can find all info regarding these cards.

nice detail is that the schematics are on this site, as well as component lists, how-to manual for building / scripting, all done.
basic software for the controller board is also done, if you dont want to program it ure self.
so, go to some electronics manufacturer, ask howmuch it will cost you to etch like, 250 of these cards, once etched, you can build up the components youreself (again, how-to is online on rgbled.org) and you should be laughing, for WIP models, as well as future projects.

just my 2 cents, let me know what you guys think.
(the most pricy detail of this thing is buying the etched cards, but, the more you order, the cheaper they get; so maybe its an idea to work together, and make some sort of pre-order list, and then get a few thousand of them, just to save costs.)

gr. sponder.


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