# New J2 thread AND General discussion



## Ron Gross

Before I begin this rambling, let me remind everyone that my only affiliation with Moebius is in the capacity of free lance contributor. That said, I have a few thoughts about the J2 thread that I would like to share, and hopefully come to a reasonable understanding. 

I think that what everyone has to remember is that the products offered by Moebius inherently include a highly emotional component, primarily based on the fact that we are tapping into childhood memories. As such, a certain amount of "shop talk" enthusiasm should be expected, especially since there is little additional info available on the new kit itself at this point. Speaking from a business perspective, I believe that this type of sharing serves to generate good will, and is actually a good thing for sales in the long run.

On the other hand, I can also appreciate the argument that the current diversity of posted material makes it difficult to find information on the kit itself, especially for those who seek it for the first time. Perhaps the best thing to do would have been to split the thread accordingly a long time ago, and in effect, that is what I am now proposing. Another J2 thread was started by Dar back on 06/08, which apparently has no content limitations. I suggest that this is the location that we should now use for peripheral J2 "shop talk." http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=256883

As for this new thread, I respectfully suggest that the content be more tightly focused on matters relating to the actual model, primarily out of respect for those who seek quick and accurate information. The scope of material I am proposing may be broader than one might initially think. In my opinion, posting photos relating to planned modifications/customizations of the kit would be OK, as well as related discussions. I believe that this is the kind of information and exchange of ideas that prospective new seekers may find equally valuable.

Is everyone cool with this?
Ron G.


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## falcondesigns

No,it would be more appropriate to have this thread when the model is in everyone's hand and can disscuss changes and modifactions to your model.The fact that an 80 page thread was closed was that people here have shown that they cannot stay on topic and fall into conjecture and speculation and dribble.............alexander


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## Steve H

But Ron, the problem lies in the fact there IS nothing to discuss, nothing new at this point. It's all conjecture and hopes and dreams and rainbows and unicorns.

And you'll get folk (un-named) who will get all net-nazi and shout "that's off topic! that's off topic!" whenever the convo veers off whatever THEY think the topic is supposed to be.

I mean, look at the ruffled feathers over the hull contour discussion, and the heat over the choice of 'film set' Vs. 'effects mini' look for the landing gear! And those would be both considered 'legit' discussion material!

(and FWIW, I'm in the camp that the 'film set' legs should be correct, as that was produced by the art director for the actors to interact with and thus should be held to the same 'canon' as the interior..there, that's enough to get me in trouble with someone  )

I thought I put a pretty reasoned and impassioned defense up, and was pointedly ignored, so that says volumes, at least to me. You, of course, carry a bit more weight than I do, cred-wise, so maybe something different will happen.

*sigh* Always the same. 30-some years of fandom and these patterns happen over and over and over. I shouldn't be surprised by this anymore, really.


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## Dar

I think it could work Ron. I think we can have a thread that would just discuss the Moebius J2 and what types of conversions we may want to do with it etc. and maybe how the actual filming model/set details could be imposed on the Moebius. That was something I didnt agree on the last thread because it essentially wasnt allowed but wasnt fully dis-allowed either. I mean you need to discuss the actual model and show from time to time. As long as the discussion remains on the J2 and not say the Spindrift, I think its ok to discuss the filming minatures, epsisodes where you may want to discuss a particualr area of the ship etc. that you want to modify on your Moebius J2.

My thread is a little more freeewheeling. It has mostly stayed on the J2, veering off occasionally into other IA stuff. But it is for the most part tied to the J2 in all its forms. 

I think this thread would be great as long as it stayed within certain parameters. The thread title will have to be broad so its not so stringently scrutinized by some here. Give it a go I say.:thumbsup:


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## JPhil123

Ron Gross said:


> Before I begin this rambling, let me remind everyone that my only affiliation with Moebius is in the capacity of free lance contributor. That said, I have a few thoughts about the J2 thread that I would like to share, and hopefully come to a reasonable understanding.
> 
> I think that what everyone has to remember is that the products offered by Moebius inherently include a highly emotional component, primarily based on the fact that we are tapping into childhood memories. As such, a certain amount of "shop talk" enthusiasm should be expected, especially since there is little additional info available on the new kit itself at this point. Speaking from a business perspective, I believe that this type of sharing serves to generate good will, and is actually a good thing for sales in the long run.
> 
> On the other hand, I can also appreciate the argument that the current diversity of posted material makes it difficult to find information on the kit itself, especially for those who seek it for the first time. Perhaps the best thing to do would have been to split the thread accordingly a long time ago, and in effect, that is what I am now proposing. Another J2 thread was started by Dar back on 06/08, which apparently has no content limitations. I suggest that this is the location that we should now use for peripheral J2 "shop talk." http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=256883
> 
> As for this new thread, I respectfully suggest that the content be more tightly focused on matters relating to the actual model, primarily out of respect for those who seek quick and accurate information. The scope of material I am proposing may be broader than one might initially think. In my opinion, posting photos relating to planned modifications/customizations of the kit would be OK, as well as related discussions. I believe that this is the kind of information and exchange of ideas that prospective new seekers may find equally valuable.
> 
> Is everyone cool with this?
> Ron G.


Hello, Ron...

I am fine with it. I know I went off topic - it was to some extent my personal and professional style and values coming through: I firmly believe that there is great value in encouraging broad discussions. It is akin to green lighting. In my own experiences beyond this board, I have seen subjects discussed that would be dismissed as some trigger new ideas in others.

I think a thread of this nature should be open. And, it does help to generate good will and sales as you mention. Enough said on this. Peripheral J2 "shop talk" as you label it does belong elsewhere. I'm signing off from this message, before I stray!

Jim


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## Ron Gross

falcondesigns said:


> No,it would be more appropriate to have this thread when the model is in everyone's hand and can disscuss changes and modifactions to your model.The fact that an 80 page thread was closed was that people here have shown that they cannot stay on topic and fall into conjecture and speculation and dribble.............alexander


I just hate to see this forum go without any kind of active J2 thread, considering the groundbreaking product that will soon be in our hands. It doesn't seem right. There should be enough images of the prototype on line to get people thinking about how they intend to light, modify, customize, etc. Also, test shots are not that far away (no date yet, before anyone asks). I don't necessarily expect this thread to be super active until more information becomes available, but I also don't think that providing a place for those who do want to offer relevant content at this point is unreasonable.


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## falcondesigns

You had that,and see where it went.You have a J2 disscussion thread going on now.The Moderators deem it a dead horse.....it's time to let it go and build a model.


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## thunderbearr

falcondesigns said:


> No,it would be more appropriate to have this thread when the model is in everyone's hand and can disscuss changes and modifactions to your model.The fact that an 80 page thread was closed was that people here have shown that they cannot stay on topic and fall into conjecture and speculation and dribble.............alexander


Whaddaya mean, we can't stay on topic?

Oh look, a butterfly...


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## toyroy

falcondesigns said:


> ...it would be more appropriate to have this thread when the model is in everyone's hand and can disscuss changes and modifactions to your model...


What makes you think that would be considered on- topic? There is no statement here about what is, and what is not, considered on-topic. If there were, of course, this would be one _dead_ forum. 

Moebius can, and has, posted all the facts about their upcoming kits on their own website, which is the appropriate place for such material. 


falcondesigns said:


> ...people here have shown that they cannot stay on topic and fall into conjecture and speculation and dribble...


HobbyTalk is a discussion forum for hobbiests- and not just those in the hobby business. It's not a city council meeting, or a business meeting. If you don't like someone else's dribble, at least show the cordiality of not telling them to shut the hell up, or seeking to close the thread.


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## woof359

*fixed PL mistakes*

I dont remember the mistakes in the hull of the old PL kit but was wondering who well be doing the very finall inspection of the new kit to avoid as many inaccurcies as possible, the end of the year is just to far away.


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## JAT

thunderbearr said:


> Whaddaya mean, we can't stay on topic?
> 
> Oh look, a butterfly...


said the rhinoceros of the modeling realm.


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## Ductapeforever

The end of the year will overtake us with unannounced haste. As for a J-2 conjecture thread, one exists in the Science Fiction subheading in the Models column. Until Mobius posts new information or photos , I feel that most discussion belongs over there. A new thread can be started after test shots are complete, and Dave does a test build. We will then have something to talk about. Patience is INDEED a virtue.


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## m jamieson

falcondesigns said:


> No,it would be more appropriate to have this thread when the model is in everyone's hand and can disscuss changes and modifactions to your model.The fact that an 80 page thread was closed was that people here have shown that they cannot stay on topic and fall into conjecture and speculation and dribble.............alexander


It is reading between the lines of what your calling dribble that real information is learned...not just about a model, but about people. One can click off their dribble infested screen any time it bores them.


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## falcondesigns

I dont do "between the lines".......................alexander


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## Dave Metzner

So....Now let me see if I understand this correctly?? 
We've opened another new J-2 thread to discuss a forthcoming model kit that still only exists as a tooling mock-up, and won't arrive in stores for several more months......I guess that's OK, we can try that.

So correct me if I'm wrong here, looks to me like after 11 posts, we're right on topic arguing about the dribble content of the first Jupiter 2 Model detail thread? 
Give me a break! Please could we please go find a live horse to beat!

Now, if you don't mind, either find a way to discuss the model kit OR expect me to close this seemingly pointless exercise in more dribble!

Dave


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## Dar

Ok, i'lll start.


I want to do some interior modifications to the model. Theres is plenty of space behind the walls of the interior. I was thinking of either a completely made up storeroom or try to make a copy of the one Will and Dr. Smith ran through in the 3rd season episode. Yeah it will be on the first level now rather than the second level, but it was a cool storeroom. If I remember correctly there were tons of white boxs with survial gear written on them, food etc. Plus the room had a door and I think a couple of support beams and one of those caged lights.

Theres also plenty of room for other storage areas like an indoor hydroponic graden, extra stateroom(maybe dons room) or the pod bay. 

I was also thinking of a nice photo of the lower level to put in the window also.

I may even considered putting storage units in the ceiling were the ladder goes to the never seen observation station. Kinda like an attic. Not sure how much space was really up there but it would be cool to do somthing with it.

This are just some ideas I have. My scratchbuilding abilities still arent as fine tuned as some others.(I had build some stuff on my uncompleted PLJ2 and they turned out pretty good) So I may wait for any aftermarket interior additions as well. But the possibilities are unlimited what can be done to this model.


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## Y3a

OK, My project will be 1-2 variations of working landing gear. The gear components will most likely be cast in Alumilite, and have brass tubes and steel rods for the hinges/leg pivot points. I'll have to see what the footpads look like, to see if they will be the right size to be used with the gear. 

The 3rd project will be the mechanical fusion core lights and spinning "V" in the bubble.


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## StarshipClass

Steve H said:


> . . . I'm in the camp that the 'film set' legs should be correct, as that was produced by the art director for the actors to interact with and thus should be held to the same 'canon' as the interior..there, that's enough to get me in trouble with someone


Okay, please educate me on this:

1. Has a decision been made as to the use of full-sized set legs rather than the miniature model legs?

2. What are the differences between the two sets of legs?

Just off the top of my noggin, my tendency is to think it'd be better to go totally with the miniature details in the exterior items which would include the legs since they're only seen when extended and on the exterior. It would also seem that, if there are significant differences, they would fit better.

The interior planned is basically "superimposed" on the inside dimensions of the miniature as best as possible, anyway. Why not keep the rest of it as faithful to the miniature as reasonably possible. If someone wants to modify the interior with the basic job the actual miniature had, that shouldn't be too difficult.

That being said, I must make clear that I really, really love the full-sized mock up saucer (the one with legs) and its detailing and intend to scratch/bash one.


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## Ron Gross

There was never a question as to the choice of landing gear, as the model will include the design from the full scale mock-up. This is the single fundamental aspect of the design with which I respectfully disagreed. Please see post #139 on page 10 of the original thread (and subsequent discussions) for a comparison, and my proposed solution for those who share this view. The good news is that the proposal is becoming closer to reality, as a plan is now in place with an after market manufacturer to offer the alternate "hero" landing gear. More details will follow at the proper time.


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## robiwon

I look forward to this kit. I just finished a two month build of the PL kit. It's going to be nice not to have to do a lot of modifications. I'm also glad this will be friendly to the modeler who wants to add lights. trying to cram 50 LEDs and over 25 feet of FO into a PL is not fun. I suspect the new J2 will be much easier.
Don't know if it's just me or not, but I fully expect the aftermarket to go wild over this kit and look forward to what surely will be available. I will be doing at least two. One out of the box to get a feel for the kit and then a fully lighted version. I just hope a fusion core curcuit board will be out around the same time.
Has it been shown how the upper and lower hulls fit together in the middle? My work computer blocks that image host so I can't see the pictures. From what I saw at Wonderfest the edge seems to be very sharp unlike the PL version.


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## Dar

Yeah I dont think that it has a beveled edge on the moebius. Im looking forward to seeing how it fits all together. 

Concerning the legs as I have stated before I will definitely be getting aftermarket legs. I also think the legs with the kit will be great for those who wish to do "full sized mockup dioramas" based on epsiodes where the family is exiting the full sized mockup. So there is room for both of the landing gear.:thumbsup:


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## Ron Gross

robiwon said:


> I look forward to this kit. I just finished a two month build of the PL kit. It's going to be nice not to have to do a lot of modifications. I'm also glad this will be friendly to the modeler who wants to add lights. trying to cram 50 LEDs and over 25 feet of FO into a PL is not fun. I suspect the new J2 will be much easier.
> Don't know if it's just me or not, but I fully expect the aftermarket to go wild over this kit and look forward to what surely will be available. I will be doing at least two. One out of the box to get a feel for the kit and then a fully lighted version. I just hope a fusion core curcuit board will be out around the same time.
> Has it been shown how the upper and lower hulls fit together in the middle? My work computer blocks that image host so I can't see the pictures. From what I saw at Wonderfest the edge seems to be very sharp unlike the PL version.


I never understood that extra "lip" on the PL version. My list of modification tips, in fact, included a suggestion to get rid of it (unfortunately with certain trade-offs). My initial thought was that this may have been some sort of safety consideration, due to the otherwise sharp edge, that was taken a little too far. I have not seen any indication that this will be the case with new Moebius kit.


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## Moebius

Hopefully we'll have more pictures soon on this. Test shots should be coming soon, and we'll all get a better look at what is happening.


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## Steve H

Ron Gross said:


> There was never a question as to the choice of landing gear, as the model will include the design from the full scale mock-up. This is the single fundamental aspect of the design with which I respectfully disagreed. Please see post #139 on page 10 of the original thread (and subsequent discussions) for a comparison, and my proposed solution for those who share this view. The good news is that the proposal is becoming closer to reality, as a plan is now in place with an after market manufacturer to offer the alternate "hero" landing gear. More details will follow at the proper time.


I can understand that. I can't help but think this may be a 'chicken or the egg' conumdrum. Which came first in the design, the set piece or the model? Were the builders attempting to copy the set as best they could, making modifications due to the different proportions between the model and the set? Keep in mind that I'm Mr. Crazy and believe that the 'full size' J2 is actually about 3/4 scale and thus it's very risky to use that for ANY measurements.

My argument for using the set landing gear is, again, it's meant to be seen, the actors interact with it, it's supposed to be 'real', while the landing gear on the mini is just a rough representation meant to be briefly seen...altho, yes, I will be fair, that first time they show the legs (I believe in 'the Derelict') it's a prototypical beauty shot, just about shouting "hey! LOOK! LANDING LEGS!" so...

Anyway, I'm a bit concerned about the insert pictured in the mockup pic, i'm guessing its a 'conjecture' part, the 'top' of the well where they support arm I assume slides along and stores in. It doesn't seem to allow for enough 'depth' in the well, but that could be just an optical illusion, or part of the 'things to be corrected'.

(and of course it's going to be a problem, gear wells would be in the way of the lower deck and even intrude on the flight deck if done 100% as seen on the 'full size' set  )


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## Antimatter

Steve H said:


> My argument for using the set landing gear is, again, it's meant to be seen, the actors interact with it, it's supposed to be 'real', while the landing gear on the mini is just a rough representation meant to be briefly seen...altho, yes, I will be fair, that first time they show the legs (I believe in 'the Derelict') it's a prototypical beauty shot, just about shouting "hey! LOOK! LANDING LEGS!" so...


Tick.....tick......tick.........


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## Tim Nolan

The writing is on the wall that this thread is already trying to take the same direction as the first, so don't be surprised if it get's laser rifled in the near future! LOL! 

I will say, I can't wait to get my grubby mitts on this new kit. I'm almost done with my PL version, which I really have enjoyed, but I think this big kit, with all of it's elaborate details, is going to be hog heaven for us Jupiter fans! Just what sneak peeks we got early on was enough to keep me stoked for months! I think your going to see some really incredible builds as a result of it a year from now too! A good foundation and a lot of imagination goes a long way. 

I never understand the endless nitpicking anyways. I agree with whoever said "it's time to build some models". I've known guys on other sites for years, who I have never seen one finished build from. They talk about it, what they would do with the subject, but you never see anything produced. I'd rather talk about the stuff we all build and look at pictures of them in progress or finished than speculate for hours about something that only exists in our minds!! Get away from the computer and pick up that glue! Mush!


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## hedorah59

Moebius said:


> Hopefully we'll have more pictures soon on this. Test shots should be coming soon, and we'll all get a better look at what is happening.


I am really looking forward to seeing the test shots! :thumbsup:


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## Steve H

Antimatter said:


> Tick.....tick......tick.........


Oh, now, be fair!

If I've set the 'thread close' alarm off it's the paragraph above what you quoted, as it doesn't mention the new model AT ALL 

And how do you discuss an issue without some context?


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## Y3a

As far as aftermarket legs, If I mold the original parts in a really good RTV I should get about 200+ pulls out of it. The other smaller parts might be a bigger pain. The footpad door sliders is an example. I also need to see how much room I have to work with for the jack shaft system to raise and lower the legs via cables.


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## Ron Gross

Steve H said:


> My argument for using the set landing gear is, again, it's meant to be seen, the actors interact with it, it's supposed to be 'real', while the landing gear on the mini is just a rough representation meant to be briefly seen...altho, yes, I will be fair, that first time they show the legs (I believe in 'the Derelict') it's a prototypical beauty shot, just about shouting "hey! LOOK! LANDING LEGS!" so...


Steve,
Let be begin by reassuring you that I respect your opinion, even if I don't agree. I know I used the phrase "Definitive Jupiter 2" with respect to my scratch build, but that had more to do with a catchy title for a magazine article than anything else.

The argument involving interaction of the actors with set design is an interesting one, but then wouldn't that line of thinking logically have to extend to the contours of the ship itself? I think we all agree that the choice of the hero miniature hull contour for the new Moebius kit is a far better choice.

To me, it's all about something I call proportional integrity. Having faithfully duplicated the "hero" hull contour, I do not feel that the overall look is entirely validated unless those graceful curves are seen in combination with the other external elements for which they were originally intended. That's why I felt compelled to jump on an after market alternative as soon as I saw the final plans, fully anticipating that this issue would come up. That does not necessarily make it the "correct" answer, but it's one that I'm betting quite a few people will agree with. For those who favor the "full scale" leg design, this is what the kit will come packaged with, so there should be no concerns.

All of that said, I did not intend for this new thread to become a platform for this subject, as there will surely be a discrete thread established when the time is more appropriate. So I guess I will ask that we defer future discussion on this subject until that time. Frank has indicated that test shots are soon forthcoming, so there should be plenty of material to discuss very soon.
Ron G.


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## Steve H

Ron, let me say that you've just about convinced me. Now I understand your thinking on the subject and it's consistent and logical.

I'll leave it there for now.


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## RSN

No matter how you reconcile it, no matter how you build it, there is not and never will be a "Definitive" or "Accurate" version to please everyone. That is what makes us builders, we can make it any way we want and it will be ok. Just have fun with it, the way Frank and everyone else at Moebius wants us to.


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## BatToys

Should the test shots photos get their own thread to make them easy to find or be posted here?


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## Steve H

RSN said:


> No matter how you reconcile it, no matter how you build it, there is not and never will be a "Definitive" or "Accurate" version to please everyone. That is what makes us builders, we can make it any way we want and it will be ok. Just have fun with it, the way Frank and everyone else at Moebius wants us to.


DANGNABBIT! 

Why'd ya have to go and post that comparison illo? It's setting off about a million discussion points in my head!

Which I will manfully restrain myself from talking about. 

(but seriously, I'm really thinking that the lower hull difference is...NNggg no no, must..not...)

But you're right, there's just no way to blend ALL the differences into one model. You gotta just pick a version/variant and go from there.


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## Y3a

This is about the JUPITER 2...NOT the Gemini 12.


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## Ron Gross

RSN said:


> No matter how you reconcile it, no matter how you build it, there is not and never will be a "Definitive" or "Accurate" version to please everyone. That is what makes us builders, we can make it any way we want and it will be ok. Just have fun with it, the way Frank and everyone else at Moebius wants us to.


No arguments here. But there's nothing wrong with trying to please as many people as possible, one way or another. BTW, those images are great.


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## woof359

So at 18 inches across what scale Rail Road might go with it, i was thinking some figures inside this big kit wood also look good.


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## Ron Gross

woof359 said:


> So at 18 inches across what scale Rail Road might go with it, i was thinking some figures inside this big kit wood also look good.


Now that's the kind of topic I had in mind. Does anyone have other ideas for suitable figures? Placing them inside the freezing tubes is an idea that always appealed to me.


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## RSN

Ron Gross said:


> No arguments here. But there's nothing wrong with trying to please as many people as possible, one way or another. BTW, those images are great.


Thank you Ron, they were fun to do. You should see my Seaview cutaway!


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## John P

If Drewd isn't _already _making figures, he ain't the man I know he is.


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## RSN

Ron Gross said:


> Now that's the kind of topic I had in mind. Does anyone have other ideas for suitable figures? Placing them inside the freezing tubes is an idea that always appealed to me.


I believe it is 1/35 scale. Plenty of Army figures that can be modified if that is the case.


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## Opus Penguin

Probably too early to ask, but anyone working on a lighting kit for this?


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## Ron Gross

robiwon said:


> I look forward to this kit. I just finished a two month build of the PL kit. It's going to be nice not to have to do a lot of modifications. I'm also glad this will be friendly to the modeler who wants to add lights. trying to cram 50 LEDs and over 25 feet of FO into a PL is not fun. I suspect the new J2 will be much easier.
> Don't know if it's just me or not, but I fully expect the aftermarket to go wild over this kit and look forward to what surely will be available. I will be doing at least two. One out of the box to get a feel for the kit and then a fully lighted version. I just hope a fusion core curcuit board will be out around the same time.
> Has it been shown how the upper and lower hulls fit together in the middle? My work computer blocks that image host so I can't see the pictures. From what I saw at Wonderfest the edge seems to be very sharp unlike the PL version.


Rob, I agree on all counts. BTW, I tried to answer your PM, but a message said that you need to clear some space first. I'll try again later...


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## woof359

a choice of differant legs along with other parts well be a good thing. its not like ill be doing just one build up.


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## drewid142

John P said:


> If Drewd isn't _already _making figures, he ain't the man I know he is.



Drewid is... he just isn't posting pics 'til they are ready. I will have complete set of figures ready to test fit in a few days... when the test shot gets here the figs will be tested, adjusted, and scultping will commence on details... they should be available in September or October... all 3 sets... tube poses, and 2 sets of assorted poses in silver suits and daily uniforms! ...robot included in the 2 sets of assorted poses... suitable for lighting.



oh... and worry not... I will post a bunch of WIP shots when I show off the finals!


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## StarshipClass

Ron Gross said:


> There was never a question as to the choice of landing gear, as the model will include the design from the full scale mock-up. This is the single fundamental aspect of the design with which I respectfully disagreed. Please see post #139 on page 10 of the original thread (and subsequent discussions) for a comparison, and my proposed solution for those who share this view. The good news is that the proposal is becoming closer to reality, as a plan is now in place with an after market manufacturer to offer the alternate "hero" landing gear. More details will follow at the proper time.


Thank-you, sir! I couldn't bear the thought of wading through that last thread to find such details. I gave up on reading it all the way through after it grew so big. Your directions, however, sent me straight to the pertinent details and I read most of the immediate discussion regarding the legs..

Now that I've read over Gary's rationalization of his choices, I get it. I think that's a pretty good way for him to go and have no real problem with it. :thumbsup: 

I still prefer the full-scale mock-up in all it's dimensions as having a more practical look to it. I know I'll have to scratch/bash my own if I want one but that's no problem.

As for the coming model kit, I may go with the 4 foot miniature look since it's already so close--not sure yet. I'll probably scratch build my own landing gear in that case.


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## m jamieson

How about figures that are cast in clear..give them a light coat of silver then light them pulsating from below till they glow in the freezing tubes to simulate the freezing process.


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## StarshipClass

m jamieson said:


> How about figures that are cast in clear..give them a light coat of silver then light them pulsating from below till they glow in the freezing tubes to simulate the freezing process.


Oooh! I like that idea!:thumbsup:


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## Dar

PerfesserCoffee said:


> Oooh! I like that idea!:thumbsup:


I do as well. Im not sure about making the figures all silver though. The may be to transparent. But very cool idea.


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## m jamieson

No, I meant make the suits a light coat of silver and even thin flesh color over the faces just for when the effect itself isn't being used. Then use the brightest LEDs you can get to create a glowing effect from below that should shine through the thin paint. Maybe they would have to remain clear cast to keep the effect realistic but it would be fun to experiment with it!


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## m jamieson

then with a hidden speaker .. add in the freezing process sound effect from the pilot episode if you can make a digital loop that the narrator isn't speaking over! lol


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## Steve H

m jamieson said:


> No, I meant make the suits a light coat of silver and even thin flesh color over the faces just for when the effect itself isn't being used. Then use the brightest LEDs you can get to create a glowing effect from below that should shine through the thin paint. Maybe they would have to remain clear cast to keep the effect realistic but it would be fun to experiment with it!


I was thinking just exactly that. Cast in clear resin (the Japanese produce some amazing water-clear stuff for just exactly this reason and purpose), paint the figures with just a light wash (silver, flesh, the various hair colors), leave the soles of the boots clear and place them over the light source. It would be pretty darn awesome looking.

Of course the question then becomes are the clear parts of the freeze tubes thin enough to ALLOW a figure to fit inside? Or would that end up needing to be another aftermarket part, a set of vac-formed tube shells for 'scale thickness' ?


----------



## m jamieson

Well it's a fun idea to play with in your head, whether it's feasible or not with any figures being produced we can only wait and see. 
Something else I was thinking about would be a digitally created image of what the lower level would look like if one looked through the open lower port window. Since there will be no lower deck..a small curved back-lit image could substitute for those wanting an open lower view port. It could be a curved panorama of what could be physically seen through the port, but since no images from the shows set from that view-point have ever surfaced it would have to be a composite of sorts. A transparency would work best for brightness and color, and although there would be no actual depth to a 2D image.. from a foot or two back it might do the trick! I don't know how much of the cabin would even really be in view with a dummy wall on each side but that would be a nice part of the illusion!... A rear projected lower deck that should leave plenty of space behind it for lots of other hi-tech additions. Kubrick used it in 2001 and has long as one doesn't ruin the effect by putting your eye right up to the window(like you can do with the upper deck view-port!) it might be an option. Now I will go back to working out the logistics on my much more creative 'Resin Bloop poop idea.' "Penny..you spank that bad monkey!"


----------



## woof359

anothe item ill just thought of is how heavy this kit well be so i can start looking for some sort of non visible support for an in flight vertion, at 18 across its gonna over load the stands i have.


----------



## Steve H

There's an obvious aftermarket add-on possible, I think mentioned in the closed thread. A 'shadowbox' for the flight deck viewports to replace the whole interior. This would be either resin or cardboard and duplicate that odd looking 'scrim shadow' background, the control consoles and maybe a figure or two, to duplicate the hero mini and allow the entire interior volume to be taken up with whatever.

Of course with today's knowledge and technology we could move past that crude image and actually have a 'forced perspective' rendering of the interior on the back of the piece, this would likely be most possible with a cardboard printed part.

hey, it might be a fun addition, and a good option for a builder who is mostly concerned with the exterior and doesn't really want to fuss around with all those interior parts. Yeah, I know, you wanna do that just paint the darn windows black but just saying


----------



## StarshipClass

Steve H said:


> Of course with today's knowledge and technology we could move past that crude image and actually have a 'forced perspective' rendering of the interior on the back of the piece, this would likely be most possible with a cardboard printed part.


That's not a bad idea at all! :thumbsup:

If a modeler would like to use a motor and gear box to run the bubble-V, he could use the space all the way back to the center and hide the mechanisms.


----------



## Antimatter

I ran up on this pic. Pretty cool.


----------



## Moebius

Antimatter said:


> I ran up on this pic. Pretty cool.


Very cool way to display!


----------



## Y3a

Anyone planning a photo etched set of gear?


----------



## Steve H

Y3a said:


> Anyone planning a photo etched set of gear?


Well, that asks a couple of questions I would think.

a. is it needed? might the kit legs be really good?

b. Could etched brass support the weight? 

I recall the discussion that it seems the actual loadbearing is done by the struts so that combined with folded brass might do the job, but I'm not an engineer, so, there that is.

I think if resin legs are made they might need some brass rod or something cast inside the main leg part to prevent 'resin sag'.

OTOH I can easily see a market for photoetched detail parts for the interior. Replacement wall panels, different insert parts to replicate the variations of the flight deck, someone will want to replace at least the wall mounted ladder if not the lift cage (no matter how well the kits parts turn out).


----------



## Y3a

I'm mostly a model railroader (where I'm really picky and obscure) so I have built engine cabs for HO scale steam engines. I've built a Prescott Photo etch crane boom which had to be soldered together. I've also used CA to hold some brass photo etch kits together. I think a double thickness photo etch for the leg sides with steps that precisely fit to the insides of the legs making a butt joint. The inside leg part would have the step location removed so the part would fit into the small slot. This would guarantee a square leg so the gear wells wouldn't have to be customized for alignment. 
a thicker bottom part is added and a small mount point for the hydraulic ram at the front of the gear stoop. I am still partial to using a jackshaft system to pull cables through thin teflon tubing (a model airplane throttle solution) and use springs to push the pad doors back in place and return the gear legs to the hull. because all the wires move at the same time you can get the legs to come down almost exactly at the same time. this also allows you to make sure the footpad doors are open first, and closed last. It's also light weight for the power it exerts. You can stop the jackshaft with the gear down and it won't lower itself. 

Also because of the problems from epoxies, I've gone to a 2 part plastic called Alumilite. Ace resins has some plastic materials too.


----------



## m jamieson

Are u using a model railroad motor and gearing for your J2 landing gear?


----------



## Ron Gross

Y3a said:


> Also because of the problems from epoxies, I've gone to a 2 part plastic called Alumilite. Ace resins has some plastic materials too.


I've been using Alumilite since the early '90's, and can verify that it is indeed a great product for a variety of scratch building applications. Cure time is dependent upon volume, but generally much faster than other resins (~3 minutes or less with small parts). I wound up using it for half a dozen or so resin casting demos at Wonderfest over the years. All went well until one year when I tried to get away with using old stock, and the mixture wouldn't cure. I got away with it by finally extracting a rubbery mess from the mold, and making a joke to the extent that this is what NOT to do. 
Ron G.


----------



## Steve H

Alumilite is good stuff, but VERY picky about water and humidity. I once ended up with FOAMING Alumilite during a project because some moisture had gotten into one of the bottles. It was an interesting effect but a pain to dig out of the mold. I never tried to duplicate it.

Powdered aluminum works well to mix in for strength but it's a king bitch to work with and of course you don't want to breath in the powder...


----------



## Steve H

Oh, hey, had a thought caused by an ad on TV. Try not to laugh too hard, OK? 

Maybelline has a new product called 'Pulse Perfection', it's eyelash goop with a tiny motor in the handle to vibrate the brush.

(oh grow up! I learned long ago that ideas can come from ANYTHING. Even tho I haven't done any prop building in some time I still scour everything I can looking for interesting shapes and new technologies  )

The handle doesn't look any larger than the other eyelash stuff I've seen, so that's some tiny motor in there. It's supposed to vibrate the brush at 7.000 times per stroke, or per the commercial 100 beats per second. That's some damn fast motor. Gonna need a rheostat to slow that puppy down.

So what I was thinking was, what if someone wanted to spin up the tiny J2 in the astrogator? I think this motor would fit completely INSIDE the base of the astrogator, thus leaving free room for the fusion core mechanics. 

Hey, if a guy can take cell phone displays and put working monitors in the control room of the Seaview, this should be a snap. 

And who knows, might be other uses for a super tiny motor.


----------



## flyingfrets

Steve H said:


> And who knows, might be other uses for a super tiny motor.


I'm going to have my dentist make me a set of dentures with one in each tooth so I don't have to waste my time chewing anymore. I'm going for TOTAL couch-potato.


----------



## woof359

i remember reading some where early vertions of the Lunar 2 foot kit came with styrene legs that wood not suport the lit and Lunar replaced them with metal parts.any one else remember this?


----------



## John P

Steve H said:


> There's an obvious aftermarket add-on possible, I think mentioned in the closed thread. A 'shadowbox' for the flight deck viewports to replace the whole interior. This would be either resin or cardboard and duplicate that odd looking 'scrim shadow' background, the control consoles and maybe a figure or two, to duplicate the hero mini and allow the entire interior volume to be taken up with whatever.


You could make it a coin bank.


----------



## StarshipClass

John P said:


> You could make it a coin bank.


Great idea, but how many coins could the legs support?


----------



## Captain Han Solo

Perhaps The top Viewport can be sealed and placed upside down, naturally, and filled to the top with a healthy salad?

The lower hull can also be displayed the right side up With the landing gear,You could even use the kit supplied gear, Of Course,Perhaps filled with your choice of adult beverage or punch?

However be carefull not to cut your self on the accurate sharp edges of either Hull..

On a Model build however, I would like to see a Functional Toilet, Behind one of the Interior Hatches,Perhaps cast in Irwin Allen Orange Oh, And a shower area, Oh, it must be cast in clear.


----------



## m jamieson

and Judy in the shower area cast in intrigue!


----------



## Steve H

John P said:


> You could make it a coin bank.


Actually, if Moebius did a blow-molded vinyl Jupiter 2 coin bank (using the cadcam data for the hull parts) as a promotional item, that would be pretty cool. 

Pop off the fusion core to dump the coins out...yeah, that would work.


----------



## falcondesigns

well it did'nt take long to make Moebius everybody's novelty company!Gee......they should make gummy bears of the crew!!


----------



## Gemini1999

And so, the discussion level of this thread descends....

I expect the mods will be along to lock this one as well.


----------



## toyroy

Steve H said:


> ...Maybelline has a new product called 'Pulse Perfection', it's eyelash goop with a tiny motor in the handle to vibrate the brush...
> 
> So what I was thinking was, what if someone wanted to spin up the tiny J2 in the astrogator? I think this motor would fit completely INSIDE the base of the astrogator, thus leaving free room for the fusion core mechanics...


I like the idea. Sounds like you're talking about a pager motor. Robotics and indoor-flight hobbyists already use them. You can find them online for around $1.


----------



## Antimatter

It seems some folks are like kids who have been told time and time again not to touch the burner on the stove, then cry when they get burned. You've been asked to stay on topic, but some of you continue not doing so. When the thread gets closed don't cry about it when it happens.


----------



## Dar

Antimatter said:


> It seems some folks are like kids who have been told time and time again not to touch the burner on the stove, then cry when they get burned. You've been asked to stay on topic, but some of you continue not doing so. When the thread gets closed don't cry about it when it happens.


Why is this thread any different from the other threads that have "ON TOPIC" SMALLTALK" or jokes. Look at the mummy thread and so forth. Why must any J2 threads be any different????????:lol:This thread has stayed mostly on topic after the perliminary posts. Modifications are a fair topic of discussion in this thread.




toyroy said:


> I like the idea. Sounds like you're talking about a pager motor. Robotics and indoor-flight hobbyists already use them. You can find them online for around $1.



I like the idea of a spinning astrogator. Dont know if I could do it myself though. I wonder if it would fit though just in the astrogator shell itself or if it would take up lower level space thats reserved for the power core lights.


----------



## Steve H

I've been playing nice, only slipped with the blow molded J2 idea. And that at least was tied to the model, not like some of the spoil sports.


----------



## toyroy

Antimatter said:


> Tick.....tick......tick.........





Gemini1999 said:


> And so, the discussion level of this thread descends....
> 
> I expect the mods will be along to lock this one as well.





Antimatter said:


> It seems some folks are like kids who have been told time and time again not to touch the burner on the stove, then cry when they get burned. You've been asked to stay on topic, but some of you continue not doing so. When the thread gets closed don't cry about it when it happens.


Speaking of off-topic. I have no problem with this stuff being deleted.


----------



## toyroy

Steve H said:


> Actually, if Moebius did a blow-molded vinyl Jupiter 2 coin bank (using the cadcam data for the hull parts) as a promotional item, that would be pretty cool.
> 
> Pop off the fusion core to dump the coins out...yeah, that would work.


Depending on how they came out, I'd probably buy several of those. :thumbsup:


----------



## falcondesigns

Lock it up.......


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## m jamieson

falcondesigns said:


> Lock it up.......


ya gotta love those deputy assistant moderators..we're on double secret probation now! lol


----------



## m jamieson

Does anyone plan on installing motorized hatches on the new" Moebius Jupiter 2" it could be done with a cable jack system along with the landing gear. I was thinking a nice in-flight build would be some scratch built Trona Pinnacles with the J2 in a down angle crashing and just touching the edge of a pinnacle..and that is where you would hide the mount.


----------



## Steve H

This is exactly the issue I predicted. Seen it before on mailing lists, on various BBS, on good ol' USENET. A discussion might drift, someone will protest that it's off topic and rant about how the place is a waste of time because nobody is talking about what THEY want to talk about.

But when it's suggested that they can help steer the conversation by contributing, they get huffy and offended. So you have the idea that it's 'who will help me make the bread' syndrome. Everyone wants to eat the bread but nobody wants to grind the grain.

Then the sock puppets come out, being 'clever' and posting OT posts to prove the point that the place is just totally in the toilet.

It's too bad, really, but it's the nature of EVERY type of fandom out there. We always eat our own.


----------



## m jamieson

Well until Dave or another "official/genuine" moderator says we are off topic..we aren't "officially" off topic are we! So it veered a bit, and a few jump in to earn their merit badges...


----------



## StarshipClass

toyroy said:


> I like the idea. Sounds like you're talking about a pager motor. Robotics and indoor-flight hobbyists already use them. You can find them online for around $1.


My only concern is the rate of rotation. Would it have to be geared down?


----------



## StarshipClass

beatlepaul said:


> Perhaps The top Viewport can be sealed and placed upside down, naturally, and filled to the top with a healthy salad?


:roll:

You don't have to tell me what the carrots in the salad will look like!


----------



## Y3a

North West Short Lines, which make Model Railroad engine gearboxes is where I get the ones I use for al my Jupiter 2 projects.


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## robiwon

I'm going to wait until the kit comes out to ask "what can be replaced with..." until I see the kit! Add on and extras are a sure thing. I saw earlier a post about etched landing gear. I believe it would support it, as with the strut it will be a triangulated structure. But does it need it? Will find out when the kit arrives. Just five months to go!

Ron, I cleaned out my PM box.


----------



## GEH737

I'm not trying to stir things up, but honestly, how can this subject "stay on topic" when there's really nothing else to talk about??? The kit is being done, it's in the test phase, we've seen some prototype pictures, been given some background information, and an approximate release date.

I've pre-ordered two from CultTVMan and will paint it silver. OK, now what? Given what we know, and that there's over 40 years of pent-up excitement over this, how could this NOT go "off topic"? Again, I'm not trying to stir things up, but I see the same issue on every internet forum.

It seems to me, that any discussion of this model keeps it in the foreground, builds anticipation, and offers ideas or information - all of which (I think) would be considered a good thing. I'd really stopped checking in on "Hobby Talk" after Polar Lights went away. With the Moebius new Jupiter II announcement, I've checked back often, and have read every single post about it - they've all shown a common interest on the subject, and overall, have been very enjoyable to read - not what I'd consider "off topic" at all. I'm just sayin' - it's just my opinion.


----------



## Y3a

We can discuss the modifications we want to make after we get our 3,4,5 or so kits.


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## Ron Gross

GEH737 said:


> It seems to me, that any discussion of this model keeps it in the foreground, builds anticipation, and offers ideas or information - all of which (I think) would be considered a good thing. I'd really stopped checking in on "Hobby Talk" after Polar Lights went away. With the Moebius new Jupiter II announcement, I've checked back often, and have read every single post about it - they've all shown a common interest on the subject, and overall, have been very enjoyable to read - not what I'd consider "off topic" at all.


George,
That's exactly why I started this new thread. To me, such an opinion coming from someone like you should be especially valuable. You may be a relative newcomer here, but I remember your personal e-mails to me, as well as your relevant posts on the old LIS Buffnet list as far back as 1998. Such people, who have both contributed and paid their dues, are at the core of the customer base to which the company is appealing.
Ron G.


----------



## woof359

i didnt get the chance to go to Wonderfest this year, i heard they had some pictures of a JUP test kit there, was it assembled and sitting on the landing gear?and pics of this?


found t, i was thinking bright fusion core lights cood light up gear wells and both the elevtor floor and tubes from under the floor.


----------



## j2man

Here here. I check in on the Jupiter 2 Thread daily. I was also a viewer of the very long closed thread. I feel like creativity is snuffed out everytime someone closes these things. I have also received some of the most inovative modeling tips from these boards. I can't wait to try and perhaps fail some of the proposed scratch building ideas brought forth in the jupiter 2 threads. I plan on a sliding hatch, but have no clue about how to do a powered hatch. I plan on automatic landing gear. I've done that one, so it should be fairly easy to do again. Has anyone thought about making the vector tapes rotate? It all is in great fun, these fantastic ideas you guys come up with. Most of the time, the coversations wether on or off topic are very thought provoking. AND a great use of freedom of speech. (watch over very closely) he he he.


----------



## Gemini1999

Hey, I love the conversations about the mods, the model(s), the series that it came from. I'm all up for that and I enjoy reading and participating, but the fact that the other thread(s) were shut down because the conversation degraded and wandered because people were bored, or because the mods got tired of asking people to stay on topic looms in the back of my mind.

I'm not a mod on this forum and I'm not trying to be, I just don't have much interest in the off topic side discussions. It's frustrating coming to a thread expecting information and finding idle banter.

Bryan


----------



## StarshipClass

I only voiced my support for closing the previous thread because it was so incredibly long!

It's not that big of a deal if you're keeping up with it daily but just try wading into it much later on.

These threads should be, IMHO, if going on for many hundreds of posts cut up into "chapters" after a certain number of pages just for ease of keeping up with.

I think fun is the object when some threads go astray for a few posts and these forums should be fun if nothing else.


----------



## StarshipClass

Y3a said:


> North West Short Lines, which make Model Railroad engine gearboxes is where I get the ones I use for al my Jupiter 2 projects.


I haven't a clue as to what would be the proper rotation speed and corresponding gearbox to achieve it.

Can you let us know what you've been using?


----------



## Antimatter

Old servos work quite well. I have used them in model ship radar. They come in all sizes that should fit nicely. A bulb, round cut piece of clear plastic and servo should do the trick. Then paint evey other square and it should give the effect of the power core. They don't turn fast either.


----------



## m jamieson

Well Steve at CultTVman will probably publish a new guide to modeling the Moebius J2, which will be mostly "Just the facts mam!" but until then it's pretty tough to take all the humanity and yes, bad jokes out of conversations. People banter and play off a few bits of harmless nonsense...which if it was on a phone with friends, would comprise of about 30 seconds out of a hour conversation. If a topic is our no interest..fast forward; There might be 4 pages on how to build retractable gear..but if I'm not doing it on my model, I could call it a "waste of my time", or "doesn't interest me" But I'm hardly so pretentious to assume it doesn't serve someone else's needs or interests or yes..just being dumb to blow off some stress or inject a joke or two 
We wouldn't be discussing this now if a few former classroom monitors weren't trying to" tell the teacher" to get some imaginary brownie points. This conversation of trying to justify everything is sadly the real waste of time..and I'm contributing by getting sucked in. 
I think it's rude to a lot of people and especially Ron who started this thread, to demand it be closed cause they don't like a few pages of dialog or they want to look like heroes to Moebius and the "legit" moderators. 
If knowing what I know about how people react on forums, and if I a NON-moderator would scold them and say inflammatory self righteous rhetoric like comparing them to children or telling them to "go build a model"cause your boring me...would I not be "Trolling" if I deliberately stir everyone up like that time and time again? cause it's ALWAYS the same people!! 
well it's time for someone to call them on exactly what they are doing...and it's not being a hero


----------



## Captain Han Solo

m jamieson said:


> Well Steve at CultTVman will probably publish a new guide to modeling the Moebius J2, which will be mostly "Just the facts mam!" but until then it's pretty tough to take all the humanity and yes, bad jokes out of conversations. People banter and play off a few bits of harmless nonsense...which if it was on a phone with friends, would comprise of about 30 seconds out of a hour conversation. If a topic is our no interest..fast forward; There might be 4 pages on how to build retractable gear..but if I'm not doing it on my model, I could call it a "waste of my time", or "doesn't interest me" But I'm hardly so pretentious to assume it doesn't serve someone else's needs or interests or yes..just being dumb to blow off some stress or inject a joke or two
> We wouldn't be discussing this now if a few former classroom monitors weren't trying to" tell the teacher" to get some imaginary brownie points. This conversation of trying to justify everything is sadly the real waste of time..and I'm contributing by getting sucked in.
> I think it's rude to a lot of people and especially Ron who started this thread, to demand it be closed cause they don't like a few pages of dialog or they want to look like heroes to Moebius and the "legit" moderators.
> If knowing what I know about how people react on forums, and if I a NON-moderator would scold them and say inflammatory self righteous rhetoric like comparing them to children or telling them to "go build a model"cause your boring me...would I not be "Trolling" if I deliberately stir everyone up like that time and time again? cause it's ALWAYS the same people!!
> well it's time for someone to call them on exactly what they are doing...and it's not being a hero


 
Hmnnn....

Well, First I am a Avid Modeler.
I actually Build Model Kits. 

I am not a Moderator, Nor do I wish to be, Or As a very Patient man I do not have the Patience to deal with THE Pointless BANTER that has dominated threads such as this one.

Neither am I a Hero, Or wish to be a Hero in the eyes Of Moebius,by pointing out something fairly obvious, to them or the guys here who actually know what they are talking about.

I have built many, many Different Jupiter 2 s over the years, Lunar's, Sci-Fi Metropolis, Polar Lights etc...I have been a Irwin Allen Fan Long before the current Crop of Irwin Allen Bandwagoners. And Experts. I can appreciate everything that Moebius has done on this kit, and look forward to intelligent conversations when we have them in hand.

However,How do you Logically discuss a Plastic Model kit WITHOUT IT BEING RELEASED YET????
Most of these posts sound like Teennage girls daydreaming about what they may or may not wear to the Prom!

I can bet Some of you guys dollars to doughnuts, you won't even buy the kit let alone build it.
Some folks just talk for the sake of being involved or just saying something, 

Such is the nature Of the internet and Forums.......And Life.

That being said, I look forward to Updates By Moebius, Frank, Dave and Gary Kerr.....As with most things in life, you have to take the good with the bad.

In the meantime, I think I'll order another Flying Sub From Culttvman..
And build a model.

High Regards,
BP


----------



## Moebius

Thanks for all the posts guys, I in no way want to limit anyone's freedom of speech. Feel free to talk about whatever you want, but if it's off topic, maybe start a new thread? I think that's what most are referring to when they say they're happy the old J2 thread was closed. That long old one was tough to find any real info in. Problem was, there was no info on the kit to be had! We will be getting test shots next week, and I know I'll post everything I can as soon as I can. It will absolutely be a new thread!


----------



## falcondesigns

Bravo!My friend!


----------



## m jamieson

beatlepaul said:


> Hmnnn....
> 
> Well, First I am a Avid Modeler.
> I actually Build Model Kits.
> 
> I am not a Moderator, Nor do I wish to be, Or As a very Patient man I do not have the Patience to deal with THE Pointless BANTER that has dominated threads such as this one.
> 
> Neither am I a Hero, Or wish to be a Hero in the eyes Of Moebius,by pointing out something fairly obvious, to them or the guys here who actually know what they are talking about.
> 
> I have built many, many Different Jupiter 2 s over the years, Lunar's, Sci-Fi Metropolis, Polar Lights etc...I have been a Irwin Allen Fan Long before the current Crop of Irwin Allen Bandwagoners. And Experts. I can appreciate everything that Moebius has done on this kit, and look forward to intelligent conversations when we have them in hand.
> 
> However,How do you Logically discuss a Plastic Model kit WITHOUT IT BEING RELEASED YET????
> Most of these posts sound like Teennage girls daydreaming about what they may or may not wear to the Prom!
> 
> I can bet Some of you guys dollars to doughnuts, you won't even buy the kit let alone build it.
> Some folks just talk for the sake of being involved or just saying something,
> 
> Such is the nature Of the internet and Forums.......And Life.
> 
> That being said, I look forward to Updates By Moebius, Frank, Dave and Gary Kerr.....As with most things in life, you have to take the good with the bad.
> 
> In the meantime, I think I'll order another Flying Sub From Culttvman..
> And build a model.
> 
> High Regards,
> BP


Y
Thats fine you build em..so do alot of other people here and I wouldn't assume otherwise.. but pointless banter is totally relative and if you think that's what it all is with no model being released yet..then don't read it. No brain surgery there! You look forward (according to your list) to only those that you find worthy of contributing to a worthwhile conversation...oh you left out Ron Gross by the way or doesn't he fit that criteria. Maybe there should be a thread that keeps out all the riff-raff. But otherwise until the model comes out..the next time your tempted to click on a thread filled with worthless banter that contributes nothing to great talent...don't do it!!


----------



## j2man

I beleive that if one thinks a thread is full of banter, then they don't have to open the thread and read it at all. There are plenty of mummy threads, flying sub threads, even old chariot threads. I do not have to have a kit of the Jupiter 2 in hand to discuss my plans or wishes of forthcoming kits. The Jupiter 2 is burned into my youth and into my memory. Ficticious or not, I loved it then, love it now, and it continues to bring awe and inspiration to many folks. The topic is Jupiter 2. What are going to do with yours, hypothecially when it arrives? 

I generally don't get involved into all the rhetoric, but everyonce in a while. I'm in there like Flint. he he he. I've been a member on Hobbytalk since 1999. I have seen many o thread that many may take to heart and spark many heavy passions. I have enjoyed reading the banter and the not so banter, otherwise I wouldn't be here and chiming in myself. I choose where to go and what to view. It is a free choice not to participate in a thread you don't feel sticks to your particilar criteria for a thread. 

Glad to know aftermarket stuff is coming..........A lot of ways to enhance the long awaited jupiter 2. I can just imagine all the goodies that can be done with figures, landscapes, photography, lighting, painting, etc........All of it pertaining to the Jupiter 2 kit, forthcoming...............................


----------



## Captain Han Solo

m jamieson said:


> Y
> Thats fine you build em..so do alot of other people here and I wouldn't assume otherwise.. but pointless banter is totally relative and if you think that's what it all is with no model being released yet..then don't read it. No brain surgery there! You look forward (according to your list) to only those that you find worthy of contributing to a worthwhile conversation...oh you left out Ron Gross by the way or doesn't he fit that criteria. Maybe there should be a thread that keeps out all the riff-raff. But otherwise until the model comes out..the next time your tempted to click on a thread filled with worthless banter that contributes nothing to great talent...don't do it!!


I am interested in the new Moebius kit.Very Much so.

And therfore I am compelled to read new threads in hopes of discovering new information that Moebius has seen fit to release. Real information.
Since no one else has a kit yet....

But to my dismay, I have to plod through Pages of wishfull thinking.

And of course your right, I can simply not bother to read the thread at all.But Hobbytalk has always had great modelers with tips and ideas to share...about building models.

About leaving Ron Gross out.......

I actually respect Mr. Gross very much. He is a very talented Modleler and illustator. In my humble opinion.
But, by his own admission, he Has had very little to do with Moebius or the Upcomming Jupiter Two....And this thread is about the Moebius Jupiter Two??
Not the Ron Gross Jupiter Two.

Isin't It????

Have a good Day.
Build a Model.


----------



## Ron Gross

beatlepaul said:


> I am interested in the new Moebius kit.Very Much so.
> 
> And therfore I am compelled to read new threads in hopes of discovering new information that Moebius has seen fit to release. Real information.
> Since no one else has a kit yet....
> 
> But to my dismay, I have to plod through Pages of wishfull thinking.
> 
> And of course your right, I can simply not bother to read the thread at all.But Hobbytalk has always had great modelers with tips and ideas to share...about building models.
> 
> I actually respect Mr. Gross very much. He is a very talented Modleler and illustator. In my humble opinion.
> But, by his own admission, he Has had very little to do with Moebius or the Upcomming Jupiter Two....And this thread is about the Moebius Jupiter Two??
> Not the Ron Gross Jupiter Two.
> 
> Isin't It????
> 
> Have a good Day.
> Build a Model.


I wonder if I could step in at this point and respectfully ask that we put a stop to exchanges like this. I will invite everyone to read my first post again on this thread, which fully explains my intention for it to be about the new Moebius J2, nothing else, including my own past efforts. 

M Jamieson: Thanks for the kind words, they are very much appreciated. But they seem to have given rise to an event of putting me in the middle of something I did not expect. Nor did I expect this thread to turn into a argument about the content of the one it replaced, and the way that whole thing was handled. To all: I don't see the productivity in going back and forth about that endlessly. I would like to thank Frank for stepping in, however, and providing a voice of reason. I don't think it's too late to salvage this thread and make it fun and interesting until details of the test shot are released, but I suspect the worst will happen if this line of exchanges doesn't stop.

Oh, and by the way BP, I did have some involvement with this product. Not only was it I who suggested it to Frank over two years ago and kept prodding him, but the fact is that Gary and I wound up exchanging over 40 e-mails during the design process. I would say that puts me firmly in an advisory role. It's also true that the art work is based on a photo of my scratch build, and it was finished well before the design work on this kit was even begun. I guess I was confident enough in my results to expect that the new kit would not deviate significantly, and I am proud to say that this is indeed the case.
Ron G.


----------



## Captain Han Solo

Ron Gross said:


> I wonder if I could step in at this point and respectfully ask that we put a stop to exchanges like this. I will invite everyone to read my first post again on this thread, which fully explains my intention for it to be about the new Moebius J2, nothing else, including my own past efforts.
> 
> M Jamieson: Thanks for the kind words, they are very much appreciated. But they seem to have given rise to an event of putting me in the middle of something I did not expect. Nor did I expect this thread to turn into a argument about the content of the one it replaced, and the way that whole thing was handled. To all: I don't see the productivity in going back and forth about that endlessly. I would like to thank Frank for stepping in, however, and providing a voice of reason. I don't think it's too late to salvage this thread and make it fun and interesting until details of the test shot are released, but I suspect the worst will happen if this line of exchanges doesn't stop.
> 
> Oh, and by the way BP, I did have some involvement with this product. Not only was it I who suggested it to Frank over two years ago and kept prodding him, but the fact is that Gary and I wound up exchanging over 40 e-mails during the design process. I would say that puts me firmly in an advisory role. It's also true that the art work is based on a photo of my scratch build, and it was finished well before the design work on this kit was even begun. I guess I was confident enough in my results to expect that the new kit would not deviate significantly, and I am proud to say that this is indeed the case.
> Ron G.


Well Ron, I must have misread a Post of yours stating,by your own admission, You had/have very little to do with the Moebius Jupiter Two...I could have sworn you said that.
.....However.....

If I misread it, I stand Corrected Sir.
No offense.

Gentlemen.

I have always respected others opinions on this board and in real life.
I am not one to start flame wars or arguments.
I have better things to do.(like build models LOL!!), and frankly, I am not very good at it!

Enjoy your Thread.


BP


----------



## m jamieson

Yes you are correct Beatlepaul...there is no kit and all this is about the Moebius J2...or about what some people will do when it does comes out. 
The fact that it's not out should be a pretty good sign that the thread is only speculation and you won't find anything of value to you here... ya know ya really could be directing your frustration at Ron for opening this thread and thereby creating so much chaos in your world. I personally find the J2 salad bowl stuff pointless and nonsensical too..but It doesn't get me to lash out at people as writing dribble..even if it is. I'm sure you don't enjoy being called a "kit assembler" by Mr. Merriman! lol
I sometimes swear people are delusional for speaking of a kids show as if it was good science fiction and the J2 being real, but I'm not calling them on it because it's not my place..nor should it be yours regardless of your talent level.
A lot of talk as gone on about mods to lunar j2s hero J2s and someones 4 foot j2 or yes the polar lights J2 and obviously by the strictest sense 'They are all "off topic!" including anything you contribute ..cause the Kit's not out and this thread should have been sealed the second Ron started it according to your guidelines. Send a PM to Moebius or Dave demanding they close down this foolishness..or easier yet..ignore it. I'm sure someone else will tell you when the test shots are up so that a moment of building time is not wasted. 
Here's is a tip I use..have a notepad write down the number identifier of those posts and only those post that according to your so humble opinion are important, on topic and are written by only those with serious deep information, and you will never have to waste time wading though the 'junk' to find the good stuff again. 
But I do agree with you, really!..nothing about the real Moebius model here that most don't already know nor is there anything about the studio model that most except the newcomers don't know either. And the humor is mostly bad puns..so that doesn't enrich anyone's knowledge base..Hmmm...Ya know you've made me a believer 
Close er down till the test shots is my vote too!

Have a better day
Screw up a model...and then ya get to talk to Angela


----------



## Captain Han Solo

m jamieson said:


> Yes you are correct Beatlepaul...there is no kit and all this is about the Moebius J2...or about what some people will do when it does comes out.
> The fact that it's not out should be a pretty good sign that the thread is only speculation and you won't find anything of value to you here... ya know ya really could be directing your frustration at Ron for opening this thread and thereby creating so much chaos in your world. I personally find the J2 salad bowl stuff pointless and nonsensical too..but It doesn't get me to lash out at people as writing dribble..even if it is. I'm sure you don't enjoy being called a "kit assembler" by Mr. Merriman! lol
> I sometimes swear people are delusional for speaking of a kids show as if it was good science fiction and the J2 being real, but I'm not calling them on it because it's not my place..nor should it be yours regardless of your talent level.
> A lot of talk as gone on about mods to lunar j2s hero J2s and someones 4 foot j2 or yes the polar lights J2 and obviously by the strictest sense 'They are all "off topic!" including anything you contribute ..cause the Kit's not out and this thread should have been sealed the second Ron started it according to your guidelines. Send a PM to Moebius or Dave demanding they close down this foolishness..or easier yet..ignore it. I'm sure someone else will tell you when the test shots are up so that a moment of building time is not wasted.
> Here's is a tip I use..have a notepad write down the number identifier of those posts and only those post that according to your so humble opinion are important, on topic and are written by only those with serious deep information, and you will never have to waste time wading though the 'junk' to find the good stuff again.
> But I do agree with you, really!..nothing about the real Moebius model here that most don't already know nor is there anything about the studio model that most except the newcomers don't know either. And the humor is mostly bad puns..so that doesn't enrich anyone's knowledge base..Hmmm...Ya know you've made me a believer
> Close er down till the test shots is my vote too!
> 
> Have a better day
> Screw up a model...and then ya get to talk to Angela


 
I actually would be honered to be called a "Kit Assembler" By Mr. Merriman!:thumbsup:


----------



## Ron Gross

So, can we now all shake virtual hands and put this whole business behind us?


----------



## m jamieson

Sorry ignore that last thread ...cease fire sorry about using your name Ron!


----------



## m jamieson

Yes shake hands..and it's true I do agree with Beatlepaul...in principle Lol!


----------



## Captain Han Solo

Ron Gross said:


> So, can we now all shake virtual hands and put this whole business behind us?


 
:thumbsup:

No worries here.

Again, Enjoy the thread.


----------



## Dar

Anyone plan on making the "chariot" ramp movable? Since the access door is visible on the moebius, I was thinking it would be a good idea for a dio, but am kind of hesitant about cutting the hull up to that extreme. We never really got to see the back side of the ship when it was crash landed and only saw a resonable facismile of it on the full size mockup.


----------



## Ron Gross

Dar said:


> Anyone plan on making the "chariot" ramp movable? Since the access door is visible on the moebius, I was thinking it would be a good idea for a dio, but am kind of hesitant about cutting the hull up to that extreme. We never really got to see the back side of the ship when it was crash landed and only saw a resonable facismile of it on the full size mockup.


Here's an idea to consider. I saw an elaborate build up one time that used the Chariot hatch as an access to all the contained electronics - complete with user switches and potentiometers. It seemed like that made more sense than what it was originally intended for!


----------



## woof359

if you can do a good job of cutting out the door and have it open what well be coming down it?

i think the FOX blue prints show the out board edges were supportsed by cables, not sure if cables are shown in the trailer "MAN FROM THE 21ST CENTURY"

its a great idea tho.


----------



## Dar

Good idea. The access hatch could be used for the electronics and at the same time have a chariot or some other stuff at the base of the door either coming out, going in or have figures doing stuff near the door. Maybe the the Robinsons loading up the Chariot. Thats a scene we never saw in the show at least from the access door. 

The dio could either have the access ramp down with the ship having its gear down or the ship landed partially in the dirt with the access ramp down onto the ground. Of course the rear of the ship would have to have the lower level exposed. So the front of the ship could be buried up to the mid point with the grade gradually decreasing toward the back of the ship down to the power core. I think the earlier episodes show this when they do a long shot of the first crash landing of the jupiter.


----------



## John P

beatlepaul said:


> Perhaps The top Viewport can be sealed and placed upside down, naturally, and filled to the top with a healthy salad?


Friend of mine once built a life-sized LiS robot, and ended up with an extra bubble-head when he found a better one. Yep, his wife thought the old one made a _great _salad bowl.


----------



## Steve H

While I have no proof, if the large Flying Sub can be taken as a guide there's probably some kind of detail and large, easy to cut outline so the Chariot ramp can be opened up if one chooses.

The aftermarket potential for this area is unlimited 

I would be very surprised if Moebius didn't release a Chariot in scale to the J2. 

Might not do the Space Pod because of all the discussed scaling issues, but OTOH, it WOULD be in the spirit of IA to just say the heck with it and release it anyway, maybe a '2-fer' kit. Two pods in one kit, one in 1/35 scale, one that would actually fit in the hatch. 

Naaaa, that's just silly.


----------



## Dave Metzner

How to is now a separate thread - with a sticky for now. If the thread continues to be usefull it will remain as a sticky....
Dave


----------



## Steve H

PM Moderator said:


> How to is now a separate thread - with a sticky for now. If the thread continues to be usefull it will remain as a sticky....
> Dave


Thank you! that's most kind, and I think useful.


----------



## Dave Metzner

Hopefully it makes the "how to" thread easy to find after the eventual demise of this thread !


----------



## Ron Gross

Dave Metzner said:


> Hopefully it makes the "how to" thread easy to find after the eventual demise of this thread !


I suspect that won't be too far away - as soon as Frank posts images of the first test shot. But it's still gratifying to me that this thread gave birth to something productive that has the potential to live on indefinitely...


----------



## thunderbearr

JAT said:


> said the rhinoceros of the modeling realm.


That's _Mister _Rhinoceros, sir.


----------



## thunderbearr

Antimatter said:


> Tick.....tick......tick.........


Ticks!! Where?! :freak:


----------



## thunderbearr

Y3a said:


> North West Short Lines, which make Model Railroad engine gearboxes is where I get the ones I use for al my Jupiter 2 projects.


NWSL is a great source for gearboxes and motors. :thumbsup:


----------



## thunderbearr

woof359 said:


> if you can do a good job of cutting out the door and have it open what well be coming down it?
> 
> i think the FOX blue prints show the out board edges were supportsed by cables, not sure if cables are shown in the trailer "MAN FROM THE 21ST CENTURY"
> 
> its a great idea tho.


Saw that on Youtube (I think). Neat concept but using the J2 set was a bit... weird.

...and I know weird...


----------



## thunderbearr

I killed the thread... I killed the thread...

nah nah nahnah nah nahhhh


----------



## toyroy

I have a question about the kit. I know the fusion core will be a separate frame, with a clear pane insert. Will the kit feature the fusion core fins, and, if so, are they integral with the core frame, or separate pieces?


----------



## Dave Metzner

there are two frames - one with extended fins - the other with retracted fins - no separate fins...
Dave


----------



## Steve H

Dave Metzner said:


> there are two frames - one with extended fins - the other with retracted fins - no separate fins...
> Dave


I think that's best. I get the shakes thinking about gluing all those things on...oh, sure, I'm sure there'd be some mostly failproof system of tabs or something but still.

I don't recall if it was asked, is the door/hatch/exterior airlock panel a separate piece? I'm sure a sliding part would have been just not workable but a separate hatch would be nice.


----------



## John P

Dave Metzner said:


> there are two frames - one with extended fins - the other with retracted fins - no separate fins...
> Dave


Thank Yoda! I don't even like separate prop blades on airplane models. Separate fins on this... well, I'd just leave them off. :lol:


----------



## Dave Metzner

No separate exterior hatch - there is no airlock included- so no reason for separate hatch...
Dave


----------



## Seaview

Dave Metzner said:


> - there is no airlock included-


 
Yes, I can read english, but as far as the flight deck is concerned, "that does not compute". :freak:


----------



## robiwon

I'm just glad the FC is going to be seperate pieces! I just finished my last PL J2 and do not look forward to masking another 64 windows!

Do we know yet if there is going to be a ceiling or just the underside of the hull like the PL kit?


----------



## Dave Metzner

There is no Airlock - we explained that early in the first J-2 thread- No separate exterior hatch no separate interior airlock door - I believe that the photos posted in the first thread show that to be the case, and I believe that Gary Kerr answered questions regarding this early in that thread...
There will be a floor in the area of the airlock - the airlock walls are not all there and there is no wall detail inside that area.. Thus not really an airlock..Yu can add the airlock interior if you like.. it is not included in the kit..

Dave


----------



## Steve H

Dave Metzner said:


> There is no Airlock - we explained that early in the first J-2 thread- No separate exterior hatch no separate interior airlock door - I believe that the photos posted in the first thread show that to be the case, and I believe that Gary Kerr answered questions regarding this early in that thread...
> There will be a floor in the area of the airlock - the airlock walls are not all there and there is no wall detail inside that area.. Thus not really an airlock..Yu can add the airlock interior if you like.. it is not included in the kit..
> 
> Dave


Went and looked it up, it's mentioned that there's no SLIDING door (which I can see being an engineering nightmare) but nothing about no door period. As for the exterior door, I can see it would be a tooling issue and a separate door would be a fit issue and wouldn't have the smooth look without a lot of work, so I dig.

But, would there be the 'cut here' trench on the inside ala the Flying Sub claw hatch and landing gear doors? For those that wish to make crash site dioramas and the like.

And BTW, thank you


----------



## LGFugate

I'm curious...what were the fins for?

Larry


----------



## Seaview

Like parsley on the side of the plate, "for show".


----------



## drewid142

Actually, I believe they were distortion dampeners to unify the flow of the Hyperdrive field as it interfaced with the transdimensional matrix of the surrounding space time… much like parsley modulates the rapid eye movements of a diner observing a complex plate of assorted items.


----------



## woof359

so well the lower hull have theleg well already open or well they need cut out?


----------



## Dave Metzner

There will be No cut here trenches on the inside of the hull parts.for hatches - 
Yes the open landing gear wells are incorporated in the lower hull - Actually the deck of the interior sits on the tops of the gear wells......


----------



## Captain Han Solo

Dave Metzner said:


> There will be No cut here trenches on the inside of the hull parts.for hatches -
> Yes the open landing gear wells are incorporated in the lower hull - Actually the deck of the interior sits on the tops of the gear wells......


 
*EXCELLENT!!!!!:thumbsup:*


----------



## spindrift

Dave-
Estimate when the first test shot will be due in??
Gary


----------



## Dave Metzner

Test shot due in? When?? Why???


----------



## falcondesigns

Everybody's a Chairman of the Board! LOL,alex


----------



## JAT

thunderbearr said:


> That's _Mister _Rhinoceros, sir.


Dang! Sorry, always a little trepidatious about looking too closely underneath those bad boys.


----------



## JAT

Ron Gross said:


> I never understood that extra "lip" on the PL version. My list of modification tips, in fact, included a suggestion to get rid of it (unfortunately with certain trade-offs). My initial thought was that this may have been some sort of safety consideration, due to the otherwise sharp edge, that was taken a little too far. I have not seen any indication that this will be the case with new Moebius kit.


Hi again, Ron. Question...And I know, of course that much discussion about hull profiles and inconsistencies between various models (hero, flying etc) and the differences in previous iterations of said models and so I'm a little confused with regard to the "edge" of the Jupiter. Is it supposed to be "be careful you could cut yourself with that" sharp, or is there (as seems evident in so many photos) a very slight radius to the edge where the hulls come together? Again, with the release still some 140 plus (and counting) days away, I'm not wringing my hands over this, but I am a little curious. Thanks again, Jeff


----------



## BlackbirdCD

Test shot pic here:
http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=260767


----------



## Kit

I thought that wasn't for real?


----------



## Ron Gross

JAT said:


> Hi again, Ron. Question...And I know, of course that much discussion about hull profiles and inconsistencies between various models (hero, flying etc) and the differences in previous iterations of said models and so I'm a little confused with regard to the "edge" of the Jupiter. Is it supposed to be "be careful you could cut yourself with that" sharp, or is there (as seems evident in so many photos) a very slight radius to the edge where the hulls come together? Again, with the release still some 140 plus (and counting) days away, I'm not wringing my hands over this, but I am a little curious. Thanks again, Jeff


Jeff,
I there was a slight radius on some filming miniatures, I suspect it was simply due to insufficient finishing, with the thought that minor issues would never be seen on film. My '97 prototype has a very sharp edge, and from what I have seen of the new Moebius model, the edge will also be well defined.
Ron G.


----------



## SFCOM1

Dave Metzner said:


> There is no Airlock - we explained that early in the first J-2 thread- No separate exterior hatch no separate interior airlock door - I believe that the photos posted in the first thread show that to be the case, and I believe that Gary Kerr answered questions regarding this early in that thread...
> There will be a floor in the area of the airlock - the airlock walls are not all there and there is no wall detail inside that area.. Thus not really an airlock..Yu can add the airlock interior if you like.. it is not included in the kit..
> 
> Dave


No problem Dave,

I forsee serious scratch building or aftermarket possibilities ahead. (As best as possible given the constraints of the actual model. The "Master of Disaster" was never a 'sickler' for accuracy) :tongue:


----------



## Dar

SFCOM1 said:


> No problem Dave,
> 
> I forsee serious scratch building or aftermarket possibilities ahead. (As best as possible given the constraints of the actual model. The "Master of Disaster" was never a 'sickler' for accuracy) :tongue:




Yeah. It doesnt seem like it would be to hard. I remember in the episode where they showed the third level, Dr. Smith' foot got caught on a piece of pipe coming out of the wall in the airlock.:lol: Like the 3rd level it had never been there before and actually stuck out quite a bit. Of course with the 3rd level it was gone after that ep.


----------



## toyroy

toyroy said:


> ...Will the kit feature the fusion core fins, and, if so, are they integral with the core frame, or separate pieces?





Dave Metzner said:


> there are two frames - one with extended fins - the other with retracted fins - no separate fins...
> Dave


Belated thanks. The alternate frames are a thoughtful design feature. :thumbsup:


----------



## woof359

how did they get inside the studio minitures to repair stuff?


----------



## Captain Han Solo

woof359 said:


> how did they get inside the studio minitures to repair stuff?


 
...The real 4' Filming miniature could be broken down much the same way as the Polar Lights Kit.(The top was removable, as well as both upper and lower hulls)

That's how they had access to the interior.

I might point out(Known to most of us now), That there was very Little interior detailing on the Miniature.


----------



## Y3a

The top was NOT removable when the hero was the Hero, and not underwater scenery. The 3 roof hatches and the fusion core area was enough to get in to do repairs. The area with the figures was just an open front box in back of the window. The rest was motors, cables, and lightbulbs.


----------



## Captain Han Solo

SFCOM1 said:


> No problem Dave,
> 
> I forsee serious scratch building or aftermarket possibilities ahead. (As best as possible given the constraints of the actual model. The "Master of Disaster" was never a 'sickler' for accuracy) :tongue:


 
..Not to stray off topic too much, I feel I have to play devil's advocate here.

The Irwin Allen Bashing to me is just a way of trying to get on the bandwagon with out all the facts.

Initially, all of his productions started out with A LOT OF THOUGHT behind the concepts of the Vehicles.The Seaview, Jupiter Two ETC....

Also All of his programs started out with Adult Themes and Storylines.

But to keep his Programs on TV(THATS FOUR SCI-FI Programs on the big three, CBS,NBC,ABC..), He had to DUMMY up his shows to get more People to watch them.
Again I say, if you want to blame someone for Storylines, Miniatures Etc..Blame the viewing audience of that time. Not Irwin Allen. His shows were all hits.



After all it is/was still a business..To Make money.
And as it has been pointed out already way too many times, I don't think anyone involved in the prodution thought Or Cared for that matter, that a bunch of modeling nerds(myself included), would be picking this stuff apart 40 something years later...

God Bless Irwin Allen


----------



## Captain Han Solo

Y3a said:


> The top was NOT removable when the hero was the Hero, and not underwater scenery. The 3 roof hatches and the fusion core area was enough to get in to do repairs. The area with the figures was just an open front box in back of the window. The rest was motors, cables, and lightbulbs.


 
..Hmnnnn..

I based my info on the Jupiter Two Autopsy Video.

Of Course you did point out..While it Was the "Hero"...Suggesting perhaps it was Opened up for the Dreadfull "City Beneath The Sea"?
It seems to make more sense that it always had this feature, however I will gladly stand corrected if I am wrong.


----------



## SFCOM1

beatlepaul said:


> ..Not to stray off topic too much, I feel I have to play devil's advocate here.
> 
> The Irwin Allen Bashing to me is just a way of trying to get on the bandwagon with out all the facts.
> 
> Initially, all of his productions started out with A LOT OF THOUGHT behind the concepts of the Vehicles.The Seaview, Jupiter Two ETC....
> 
> Also All of his programs started out with Adult Themes and Storylines.
> 
> <snip>
> God Bless Irwin Allen


I wasnt trying to bash IA. I think it more as admiration, that his series (VTBOS, LIS, LOG, TT) all survived and are still seen today. Trek has a lot of it's own bashers with it's sets and props as well (the intertchangable shots of all 3 versions of the filming minature, sometimes in the same episode comes to mind). For any show, movie, series to survive that long is a testament. Even with the set inconsistancys.

IA and GR where both way ahead of thier time. And have great legacies that will live on.


----------



## Captain Han Solo

SFCOM1 said:


> I wasnt trying to bash IA. I think it more as admiration, that his series (VTBOS, LIS, LOG, TT) all survived and are still seen today. Trek has a lot of it's own bashers with it's sets and props as well (the intertchangable shots of all 3 versions of the filming minature, sometimes in the same episode comes to mind). For any show, movie, series to survive that long is a testament. Even with the set inconsistancys.
> 
> IA and GR where both way ahead of thier time. And have great legacies that will live on.


*Agreed Sir!*
*...Now..Back on topic:thumbsup::thumbsup:*


----------



## Lee Staton

woof359 said:


> how did they get inside the studio minitures to repair stuff?


Usually there are hidden screws in filming models that are incorporated into the design, or too small to see. When I first saw the Star Wars models--such as the Millenium Falcon or the Imperal Walkers--there they were; machine screws. Seeing the big E at the Smithsonian, there they were again. I had never noticed!

I am not a J2 expert (though I've seen the restored hero model in Seattle), so I don't know what the Fox modelmakers used, but they definitely would have given themselves ways to replace lights, change batteries, etc. My guess would be they could reach in and unfasten from the fusion core hole.

Lee


----------



## RSN

My two cents on what I know about the Jupiter 2 models (yes there were more than one 4 footers) is that the Pod dropper had the roof removable. This was not the "Hero" and therefore the "hero" very well had no removable roof. This is where the confusion comes from as to what is "THE" Jupiter 2. There were a lot to pick from. This is what I have found in my research over the years, it could be wrong.


----------



## Lee Staton

Because allen-head machine screws are so small and easy to hide, I've often thought of incorporating them into big models like the Moebius Flying Sub or Jupiter 2 to allow for access. Especially when adding lights.

The small tap-and-die sets are pretty cheap from places like Micro Mark, and the screws can be pretty tiny. The Moebius kits have fairly thick plastic, which would help.

Lee


----------



## Captain Han Solo

It's unfortunate only several or so people have actually seen or Have had access to the real 4' Hero.

Actually working with the Prop. Really knowing all it's little secrets most of us have been guessing at all these years.

The artists who worked for the defunct "Icons", In Particular.
It would be cool if Mr. Jim Key could shed some light on some of the secrets.

He actually had Access to the 4'Hero.Not blueprints.Not notes. Not screencaps..the real deal.

I believe Mr.Key is a very busy man though.


----------



## bigdaddydaveh

Rare earth magnets are geat for removable panels too.


----------



## teslabe

bigdaddydaveh said:


> Rare earth magnets are geat for removable panels too.



http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G16913

I couldn't agree more, I found these work great and you can't beat the price,
$10.00 for 50 small rare earth samarium cobalt magnets.....:thumbsup:


----------



## woof359

i have seen the Jupiter 2 autopsy tape, watching them reassmble it could have been a good addition


----------



## Ron Gross

"He actually had Access to the 4'Hero. Not blueprints. Not notes. Not screencaps..the real deal..."

Unfortunately, the "real deal" had undergone so many modifications, repairs, and renovations at that point that having direct access to it might not have been as revealing as expected.


----------



## toyroy

Y3a said:


> The top was NOT removable when the hero was the Hero...


It had a pretty good-sized battery in there, too. Was that changed out through the fusion core, or the viewport?


----------



## Y3a

fusion core. you have to remove it to un-do the viewport.


----------



## toyroy

Was the light spinner attached to the hull, or the fusion core frame?


----------



## toyroy

Several folks have talked about making the main hatch operable. Has anyone here bought or made a laser rig to cut out the hatch? Or can this be easily(and cheaply) outshopped?


----------



## Dave Metzner

A Laser rig????????? How about a good sharp knife...Or a jewler's saw ..Low tech but effective...


----------



## Seaview

I'm planning on using a dremel with a fine tooth sawblade, cutting the hatch open from the inside. 
I'm expecting that it will be well detailed on the inside, considering the detail to the landing gear and grappling hook hatches in the Moebius Flying Sub.


----------



## Captain Han Solo

Dave Metzner said:


> A Laser rig????????? How about a good sharp knife...Or a jewler's saw ..Low tech but effective...


 

*LOL!!!!*


----------



## falcondesigns

toyroy said:


> Several folks have talked about making the main hatch operable. Has anyone here bought or made a laser rig to cut out the hatch? Or can this be easily(and cheaply) outshopped?


I'm sending mine to JPL,they'll handle my hatch needs........


----------



## Y3a

cast the airlock door. Use a flexible mod meterial so you can slightly warp the door to a smaller diameter so it will work as planned.


----------



## Steve H

Seaview said:


> I'm planning on using a dremel with a fine tooth sawblade, cutting the hatch open from the inside.
> I'm expecting that it will be well detailed on the inside, considering the detail to the landing gear and grappling hook hatches in the Moebius Flying Sub.


But maybe not. 

Dave seems quite insistent (and a little annoyed) at discussions of this part of the kit. I'm not sure why it would be upsetting to hope that the minor work on the tooling to put 'cut here' grooves around the main hatch, The Chariot ramp and the Pod hatch,but it seems to be the case. Or maybe it's just me. 

(actually, I can think of a reason. The inside of the hull halves might be 'plain' and there's no FS-like detail on the 'inside' parts of the hatches, and it might be that if they DID put the 'cut here' grooves in they might be expected to have some form of detail there, and THAT would involve more cutting time and detail work and thus be a notable cost. And looking at things, I wager there's some significant support structure crossing the Chariot hatch on the inside and that will be a major mod if one opens that up...)


----------



## Antimatter

Steve H said:


> But maybe not.
> 
> Dave seems quite insistent (and a little annoyed) at discussions of this part of the kit. I'm not sure why it would be upsetting to hope that the minor work on the tooling to put 'cut here' grooves around the main hatch, The Chariot ramp and the Pod hatch,but it seems to be the case. Or maybe it's just me.
> 
> (actually, I can think of a reason. The inside of the hull halves might be 'plain' and there's no FS-like detail on the 'inside' parts of the hatches, and it might be that if they DID put the 'cut here' grooves in they might be expected to have some form of detail there, and THAT would involve more cutting time and detail work and thus be a notable cost. And looking at things, I wager there's some significant support structure crossing the Chariot hatch on the inside and that will be a major mod if one opens that up...)


It's already been said that the inside hatches *will not *be detailed like the FS.


----------



## Dave Metzner

Actually the bottom portion of the hull has a substantial amount of re-enforcement built into it so that it will maintain its shape...SOOOOO adding cut it here grooves just doesn't work........If you want to cut stuff open on the bottom of the hull I think that you'll need to find a way to put some sort of stiffeners back into that hull part.
The bottom of the hull is a shallow 18 inch thin walled styrene dish without a web of re-enforcements it will not hold its shape.....
As for the airlock hatch that detail is recessed so it's already pretty thin - adding cut it here grooves is un necessary just take a good sharp scribing tool and scribe around it several times - it'll fall right out.......or you can fire up your handy dandy laser........


----------



## StarshipClass

The more I hear about it, the more I like the choices made! :thumbsup:


----------



## Dave Metzner

Perfesser,
Glad to hear you testify!


----------



## Gilusions

Lee Staton said:


> Because allen-head machine screws are so small and easy to hide, I've often thought of incorporating them into big models like the Moebius Flying Sub or Jupiter 2 to allow for access. Especially when adding lights.
> 
> The small tap-and-die sets are pretty cheap from places like Micro Mark, and the screws can be pretty tiny. The Moebius kits have fairly thick plastic, which would help.
> 
> Lee


Hello Lee 
I have been using Allen-head and the tap and die sets on models for years.
One is for changing lights and two I have used it instead of glue in certain areas. It helps out a lot.
Gil


----------



## Dave Metzner

Ok so now we want to argue over lasers for modeling...or Ground hog extermination!
How pray tell does any of that pertain to a discussion of the Moebius Jupiter 2 kit..
Or plastic modeling in general - it's not like lasers are the new Dremel tool !
A significant number of members here don't have airbrushes and you want to talk about lasers for plastic modeling!?
Get ON TOPIC or go somewhere else to argue!
Next stop is a closed thread!


----------



## Steve H

OK.

Well, it makes sense that the lower hull needs lots of bracing to keep the shape, and I assume to keep that large floor flat and level.

I'm maybe a little surprised to hear how thin the hull seems to be. I suspect it leads to a better looking kit. 

Taking it back retro-style, do you think Aurora would have gone with all the lower hull bracing, or would they have designed for thicker hull walls? Hm, more I think about it, you'd HAVE to have that bracing. Weight of the kit on its extended legs, you couldn't do that just hoping that the flight deck floor, pegged into a series of 'pillers' coming from the lower hull, would hold. And if it was just a 'drop the floor into this groove carved into the inside of the lower hull' and NO support underneath. no, that's just instant structural failure.

More I think about it, this dang kit is stunningly complex in its engineering! Who'da thunk it?


----------



## Dave Metzner

Darned right its complex - 
Jupiter 2 is 13 tools producing 4 big pieces and about 15 trees of smaller parts...
Total piece count is around 227 at this moment... 
It's test shots that need to be built and checked for fit so that the factory can be told what needs to be fixed - lots of time spent photographing parts and writing notes for the factory. That starts for me in the next day or so - as soon as I finish another more pressing project...Fortunately I'll get some help on this from Gary Kerr...
There will be an instruction sheet that needs to be written (I'll be doing that as I build and paint one of the test shots)
There are photos to be taken for the instruction sheet I'll do that as I build the test shot - then I can add part numbers and notes to the photos for the graphics guy who will actualy design the instruction sheet.
And when you get the kit and open the box all you should need to do is build it........
Why would you say "who'da thunk it"? 
Did you think it's simple??


----------



## Dave Metzner

I really do appreciate all the enthusiasm expressed here for our new jupiter 2 kit. 
We are working very hard to assure that the kit won't dissapoint. 
As I just tried to explain, this is a complex kit and there is alot of work involved in a project of this magnitude. 
I hope that now you might understand why I don't always seem to have a lot of patience with some of the questions and suggestions that show up here...

Dave


----------



## Antimatter

I've decided to build my ship with the legs retracted and the ship on a stand. With a stand tube you can run wires from a base to the lights. I won't have to worry about getting aftermarket legs to replace the spider ones.


----------



## Steve H

well, my 'who'd thunk it' comment was meant more as a joke, because I DO understand how complex it is, even if I don't know all the particulars. My Grandfather was head engineer at Perfect Circle in Tipton, IN. and he instilled in me a deep appreciation of the complexities that go into such things.

And I appreciate that Moebius is very 'hands on' with everything. It's not guys in an office telling people what to do, it's guys building kits (and telling people what to do) 

I have a really stupid technical question. It's not meant to be a slam or a poke or anything causing upset, OK?

Might it be cost effective at this point to think about doing the tooling and molding here in the US? Given the time-lag and communication issues with overseas, combined with the shipping (and the headaches if there's a dock strike or another surge in transportation costs, or god forbid new tariffs imposed), it might be worth thinking of.

There's a large number of plastic injection companies that are looking for work now that the auto industry is in such a crisis, there's a lot of knowledge and technology and unused capacity out there, and this could, maybe, make the turnaround time much faster which would lower costs blah blah blah.

Hey, it's how Aurora (back in the day) got into the kit business in the first place, so there ya go, it could come full circle!


----------



## Dave Metzner

Tipton Indiana! I know where Tipton is! 
Probably called on the local lumber yard / farm bureau co-op or whatever back when I sold building materials for a living.
Nice little town!

Producing tooling in the US is not likely to happen...
For one thing the China factory we work with provides a complete package - we send them the concept and the design - they do all the prototyping - all the tooling and all the production including printing the box and instruction sheet.
I send them drawings or an old kit to re-produce and they send us finished product ready for the store shelf...

With computers, CAD and CNC, digital cameras and the internet lead times are not that big an issue..

I'm unaware of anything like that in the US at anything like competitive pricing...

There is almost no production of Model kits in the USA today with the possible exception of Lindberg and Glencoe and neither one of them is doing anything in new tooling to speak of (and I'll bet that any new tooling they are doing is being done off shore)...

Times and circumstances change but I don't see much prospect for Plastic kits being made in the US again anytime soon...

Dave


----------



## StarshipClass

Dave Metzner said:


> Perfesser,
> Glad to hear you testify!


I may tweak a few things, of course, but you're not leaving much to tweak which is great. 

It will be, out of the box, very close to the the shape and details I want. I will still _add_ a lot of stuff. That's the fun thing for me. I usually scratch-build some stuff which is a lot easier than it sounds with all the raw materials out there.


----------



## StarshipClass

Dave Metzner said:


> Times and circumstances change but I don't see much prospect for Plastic kits being made in the US again anytime soon...
> 
> Dave


No one can say for certain, but if there's still a market for plastic models, we may be very competitive soon with the economy going downhill.


----------



## Steve H

PerfesserCoffee said:


> No one can say for certain, but if there's still a market for plastic models, we may be very competitive soon with the economy going downhill.


That's my thought too. There may even be some incentives available for 'going American' in the near future, depending on so many factors. 

Living here in Michigan, I see lots and lots of injection molding companies trying to find other work outside of the auto industry and 'hard goods' manufacturing. Heck, right here in Grand Rapids we still have the company that did the proto and tool cutting for the MPC Millennium Falcon kit (and I assume others) way back when.

But I didn't mean to derail the convo with this, it was just a passing thought.


----------



## woof359

I wonder if there are many fans of LOST IN SPACE working at this factory and know what there creating? i suspect you leaned new do's an don'ts stuff from ever kit you create.


----------



## GEH737

Dave Metzner said:


> I hope that now you might understand why I don't always seem to have a lot of patience with some of the questions and suggestions that show up here...
> Dave


Dave -

Have you ever watched kids on Christmas Eve / Morning? It's kinda like that. And some of us have been waiting for a lot of Christmas's... It's excitement that's all velocity, and no vector, pure of heart with genuine happiness at something much longed for finally coming to reality. Some of the comments or posts might seem "off topic" - some might not make sense to everyone, but they're all based on excitement - and Christmas is getting closer every day...

Regards,
George


----------



## Ron Gross

GEH737 said:


> Dave -
> 
> Have you ever watched kids on Christmas Eve / Morning? It's kinda like that. And some of us have been waiting for a lot of Christmas's... It's excitement that's all velocity, and no vector, pure of heart with genuine happiness at something much longed for finally coming to reality. Some of the comments or posts might seem "off topic" - some might not make sense to everyone, but they're all based on excitement - and Christmas is getting closer every day...
> 
> Regards,
> George


So who's going to do the first photoshop of the Moebius J2 on a mock 60's style Sears Christmas catalog page, just for the hell of it?


----------



## Paulbo

Ron Gross said:


> So who's going to do the first photoshop of the Moebius J2 on a mock 60's style Sears Christmas catalog page, just for the hell of it?


LOL! (I'm betting you could do a pretty durned good job Ron!)


----------



## Antimatter

OT but check this out:

http://www.wishbookweb.com/


----------



## drewid142

THAT WISHBOOK SITE IS AWESOME!

Thanks for posting it!


----------



## Antimatter

drewid142 said:


> THAT WISHBOOK SITE IS AWESOME!
> 
> Thanks for posting it!


You're welcome. I hope they post more from the 60's-early 70's one day. The prices blow me away. Just under 6 bucks for the entire Voyage playset that goes for mega bucks on Ebay.


----------



## enterprise_fan

*wish book*

Originally Posted by Ron Gross 
So who's going to do the first photoshop of the Moebius J2 on a mock 60's style Sears Christmas catalog page, just for the hell of it?

ME!:wave:

Here is a quick take on a book. When I have more time tonight I will add to the decorations.:thumbsup:


----------



## Mitchellmania

Will the model kit include the Robinson family and Dr Smith and robot?
I hope!


----------



## Dave Metzner

The kit does not include any figures....
Dave


----------



## JAT

Thought I remembered someone posting some drawing overlays of a control panel up near the main viewport, maybe extending out of the side (left) panel. Seems like Dr. Smith was in the shot. Was this the seventies coming back at me or is that out there somewhere? What episode (assuming I'm not mis-remembering or just nuts) would this have appeared in?


----------



## Fernando Mureb

Hi everyone
This is my first post to this forum, although I've been around reading everything posted by you guys on sci-fi modeling, through the last three years.
I'm from Brazil, so forgive my poor English. Despite the fact that I'm 53 yo, I feel like a beginner between masters, and that explain my silence so far.
About the Moebius J2, I don't remember if somebody have already made a suggestion (both in this and the old, closed thread) or a wish to have a kit with a detailed lower deck, *but not* one that fitted the kit lower hull, because, as we all know, this is a physical impossibility.
The idea here is: since that the lower hull is below the ground in a crash site diorama, who cares about scales inconsistencies between the set mock up and the J2 miniatures?
The kit could come as a diorama with a cylindrical depression, inside witch the lower deck walls, quarters, laboratory, auxiliary control, galley, etc, would be assembled (with room for lighting!!).
In this case, if someone desire was to have a complete crash site diorama, this guy would just have to put the upper hull of the "landed J2 kit" over the cylindrical hole of the "crash site kit" (yes, to do that you must have both kits - well, I would).
Sorry if this is a boring, out-of-place discussion, but here you have my little contribution.
Thanks


----------



## Larva

Fernando, welcome.

Your English is fine and your idea is great! It's a very innovative home-bash solution that solves the lower deck scale issue. And it gives a view of the lower deck, buried in the ground, that was impossible to ever get from the show. Great thinking!


----------



## Mark Dorais

Fernando Mureb said:


> Hi everyone
> This is my first post to this forum, although I've been around reading everything posted by you guys on sci-fi modeling, through the last three years.
> I'm from Brazil, so forgive my poor English. Despite the fact that I'm 53 yo, I feel like a beginner between masters, and that explain my silence so far.
> About the Moebius J2, I don't remember if somebody have already made a suggestion (both in this and the old, closed thread) or a wish to have a kit with a detailed lower deck, *but not* one that fitted the kit lower hull, because, as we all know, this is a physical impossibility.
> The idea here is: since that the lower hull is below the ground in a crash site diorama, who cares about scales inconsistencies between the set mock up and the J2 miniatures?
> The kit could come as a diorama with a cylindrical depression, inside witch the lower deck walls, quarters, laboratory, auxiliary control, galley, etc, would be assembled (with room for lighting!!).
> In this case, if someone desire was to have a complete crash site diorama, this guy would just have to put the upper hull of the "landed J2 kit" over the cylindrical hole of the "crash site kit" (yes, to do that you must have both kits - well, I would).
> Sorry if this is a boring, out-of-place discussion, but here you have my little contribution.
> Thanks


Excellent idea Fernando!:thumbsup:


----------



## StarshipClass

Fernando Mureb said:


> Hi everyone
> This is my first post to this forum, although I've been around reading everything posted by you guys on sci-fi modeling, through the last three years.
> I'm from Brazil, so forgive my poor English. Despite the fact that I'm 53 yo, I feel like a beginner between masters, and that explain my silence so far.
> About the Moebius J2, I don't remember if somebody have already made a suggestion (both in this and the old, closed thread) or a wish to have a kit with a detailed lower deck, *but not* one that fitted the kit lower hull, because, as we all know, this is a physical impossibility.
> The idea here is: since that the lower hull is below the ground in a crash site diorama, who cares about scales inconsistencies between the set mock up and the J2 miniatures?
> The kit could come as a diorama with a cylindrical depression, inside witch the lower deck walls, quarters, laboratory, auxiliary control, galley, etc, would be assembled (with room for lighting!!).
> In this case, if someone desire was to have a complete crash site diorama, this guy would just have to put the upper hull of the "landed J2 kit" over the cylindrical hole of the "crash site kit" (yes, to do that you must have both kits - well, I would).
> Sorry if this is a boring, out-of-place discussion, but here you have my little contribution.
> Thanks


That may work better with the Polar Lights J2 kit since it has interior detailing and such. EXCELLENT :thumbsup: idea just the same!!!


----------



## gareee

After reading through the whole thread, a few questions:

Can the landing gear be built so they can be removed, and the landing gear hatches snapped in, so the model could be easily displayed "in flight" or landed?

Or does the landing gear have to be solidly glued in to properly support the model?

Does it look like the johnny lightening robot would be in scale with the ship, or is he too large?

Any chance of a downloadable pdf version of the instructions before the kit is actually released, so we can look it over?


----------



## Antimatter

gareee said:


> After reading through the whole thread, a few questions:
> 
> Can the landing gear be built so they can be removed, and the landing gear hatches snapped in, so the model could be easily displayed "in flight" or landed?
> 
> Or does the landing gear have to be solidly glued in to properly support the model?
> 
> Does it look like the johnny lightening robot would be in scale with the ship, or is he too large?
> 
> Any chance of a downloadable pdf version of the instructions before the kit is actually released, so we can look it over?


Good question.


----------



## gareee

Yeah I know it can be displayed either way, but I'm wondering if I can just pop in the gearf without glueing, and use it as a table display, and then at a later date, remove them, snap in the gear covers, so I can display it hanging from the ceiling?

Odds are it'll end up in a hanging display anyway, but I'd like to have both options if possible. Much depends on the design of the leg attachments, and hatches. If the hatches have a slight lip on the inside, they can probably just snap in for display, but still be removed at a later date.

My larger concern though, is how the gear attaches. I'm guessing the connects must be sturdy, since they also reinforced the lower deck to support the weight of the model without sagging.

For a hanging display. I'll use a thin wire ring, (or clear plastic rig if I can find one that's right), and glue fishing line to it, 2 loops. That will all go to one ceiling hook, and the J2 can have the fusion core rest in the wire hoop,and be tilted or banks as desired.

I did that with the trendmasters J2 toy, and that worked out perfectly.


----------



## Moebius

Steve H said:


> That's my thought too. There may even be some incentives available for 'going American' in the near future, depending on so many factors.
> 
> Living here in Michigan, I see lots and lots of injection molding companies trying to find other work outside of the auto industry and 'hard goods' manufacturing. Heck, right here in Grand Rapids we still have the company that did the proto and tool cutting for the MPC Millennium Falcon kit (and I assume others) way back when.
> 
> But I didn't mean to derail the convo with this, it was just a passing thought.


It would be nice if something like was possible. As Dave mentioned, the factory we use does it all start to finish. We provide the research, and get a finished product back. I've talked to companies here. No one does this sort of thing that I know of. Even many of the Chinese companies don't provide start to finish.

The government should get out and ask questions if they truly want to bring back industry to the US. They can feel free to call me any weekday, 10-4EST and I'd be happy to talk with them about why we HAVE to outsource! I have some suggestions for them, but I don't think they'll call me anytime soon.

Dave, sorry for being OT, please don't ban me....


----------



## Fernando Mureb

Insisting a little bit more: this is what I had in mind.
The image of the J2 upper hull is someone else work (I don't know who) and I took it just to illustrate the scheme.
Thanks PerfesserCoffee, Mark Dorais and Larva.


----------



## Fernando Mureb

And, once we are talking about a diorama kit, it could include all that stuff the Robinsons used daily to survive: force field, hydrophonic garden, laundry machine, etc, etc, etc.http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

A question on the Moebius J2 kit: in one of the pictures posted back there to the closed thread, showing the computing wall, the equipment that replaced the atomic clock on second season was represented only in 2 dimensions (sculpted on the styrene). I know it was a prototype, but is there a plan to make that part in 3 dimensions? 

Sorry if this is a repeated question, but the old thread is enormous. http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/images/smilies/confused.gif


----------



## woof359

*still waiting its turn*


----------



## enterprise_fan

Hey gang, Frank just posted a test shot of the new J 2 to the forum. 

Look for "J2 Test Shot" thread.


----------



## Steve H

*J-2 General discussion not related to Moebius Test Shot*

Man, you know, is Dick Trufel still alive? It would rock if he could be hired to do a voiceover for a Jupiter 2 kit commercial that could run at hobby shows, trade shows, and hobby shops that have some kind of video setup, and also promote the other IA kits....


----------



## scotpens

Steve H said:


> Man, you know, is Dick Trufel still alive? It would rock if he could be hired to do a voiceover for a Jupiter 2 kit commercial that could run at hobby shows, trade shows, and hobby shops that have some kind of video setup, and also promote the other IA kits....


It's Dick Tufeld, and according to Wikipedia, he's still alive at 82.


----------



## Steve H

scotpens said:


> It's Dick Tufeld, and according to Wikipedia, he's still alive at 82.


thank you. I COULD have just leaned over and grabbed my Lost in Space CD and double checked the spelling but NOOOOOOO


----------



## SFCOM1

enterprise_fan said:


> Hey gang, Frank just posted a test shot of the new J 2 to the forum.
> 
> Look for "J2 Test Shot" thread.


Found it, Saw it, Impressed like crazy!

That is one BIG J2. Looks to be twice the size of the PL kit with even greater detail (though the Chim Chim figure is seperate)


----------



## Fernando Mureb

Fernando Mureb said:


> A question on the Moebius J2 kit: in one of the pictures posted back there to the closed thread, showing the computing wall, the equipment that replaced the atomic clock on second season was represented only in 2 dimensions (sculpted on the styrene). I know it was a prototype, but is there a plan to make that part in 3 dimensions?[/url]


My question was answered: it will be 3D.


----------



## Richard Baker

gareee said:


> BTW, from the looks, the johnny lightening Robot though a tad tall, could probably be put in reasonably in scale. I think he could be a tad smaller, but I think he'll look alright inside.


I think this had come up on a different thread, but the robot is close enough that if you remeoved his wheels and replaced the dome suport it could work as a display. I paln on having mine 'on patrol' underneath the J2 behind the landing gear so any size difference will not be too critical.

.


----------



## Captain Han Solo

gareee said:


> BTW, from the looks, the johnny lightening Robot though a tad tall, could probably be put in reasonably in scale. I think he could be a tad smaller, but I think he'll look alright inside.


The Johnny Lightning Robot is *THE WRONG SCALE..He is too Big..*Weather you remove this or that, truth is..he is too big.


----------



## Seaview

I'm considering the Moebius mini-Robot that came with the Chariot. I know it's 1/24 scale, but smaller than the JL version.


----------



## gareee

beatlepaul said:


> The Johnny Lightning Robot is *THE WRONG SCALE..He is too Big..*Weather you remove this or that, truth is..he is too big.


If I recall, the J2 is 1/35th scale, right?

The robot was about 7 foot tall with bubble extended.

The JL robot is 2.5 inches tall, and 1/35th of 7 feet is 2.4 inches.

Which puts the JL robot VERY close in scale.

"I'm considering the Moebius mini-Robot that came with the Chariot. I know it's 1/24 scale, but smaller than the JL version."

One or the other should at least be close enough for governement work.. 

Worst case, you could open up the lift (if there isn't already an opening) and hide his lower half in there.. that might make him appear short enough to fit.


----------



## Antimatter

beatlepaul said:


> He is too Big.Weather you remove this or that, truth is..he is too big.


My wife says that all the time..........


----------



## Zorro

Antimatter said:


> My wife says that all the time..........


Too bad she's not saying it to _you_.


----------



## gareee

Zorro said:


> Too bad she's not saying it to _you_.


 
OH! That's gotta smart!


----------



## m jamieson

Zorro said:


> Too bad she's not saying it to _you_.


Touche' Zorro! good one


----------



## Antimatter

Zorro said:


> Too bad she's not saying it to _you_.


BWAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## gareee

OT, If anyone does have yellowing problems with older models, someone actually found a solution: those oxy cleaning solutions.

You just let whatever yellowed plastic items you have sit in it outside for a day or so, and everything is restored to it's actual original plastic color. And since its waterbased, its also safe for paints and glues as well.

It works on clear plastic, as well as all colors.


----------



## Ron Gross

The catalyst here is bright sun light - the brighter, the better, but be careful on VERY hot days because there could be other issues. I found that this also works on decades-old oil paintings (such as the ones I did in school) in cases where the medium may have yellowed over the years. But in this case, no "oxy" was even required.


----------



## StarshipClass

gareee said:


> Less then 2.5"... yeah then the JL robot WILL be too large. He is 2.5" tall.


My JL robot is 2 & 13/32" tall which will fit perfectly, IMHO. The out-of-scale wheels have been removed and the bubble lowered to a more typical on-board configuration. 

Remember, the robot was designed so that he could lower his bubble for entering and exiting the ship and other tight areas. Also, out in the center of the J2 interior, there is more head room than up against the panels.:thumbsup:

That being said, I wouldn't try to pass off the JL robot as being 1/35th but 1/32nd is, at least for me, close enough.

Here he is earlier in the conversion process. He now has his bubble and his arms on now and I'm correcting the contours on the torso which is the last step before painting and decaling:


----------



## djnick66

toyroy said:


> How about a downloadable paper model of the lower deck, in scale with the Moebius upper deck?


There is a beautiful downloadable model of the whole ship, interior and all... VERY nicely done. Its not in color but you can add color in Paint Shop, etc. There is also a nice color space pod and a crude b/w Robot download. But the J2 is excellent...


----------



## Fernando Mureb

Dave Metzner said:


> For those of you who keep asking for Moebius to furnish more and more Jupiter 2 features and add ons please understand we are a SMALL company with very limited staff and limited resources.
> Larger companies probably couldn't grant your every wish... we certainly cannot.
> The test shot photos that you see represent the limits of our plans for a Jupiter 2 kit.
> We have many other projects going now and we have no plans to produce a range of additons or variations to the J-2 kit.
> 
> Dave


Sorry Dave, but I'd like to insist, not about this kit, but another, that doesn't exist (yet): you could put in your priority list, even being the last one, a kit with a detailed lower deck interior (just the interior - no hull or diorama or whatever).
Thanks


----------



## toyroy

Fernando Mureb said:


> ...I'd like to insist, not about this kit, but another, that doesn't exist (yet): you could put in your priority list, even being the last one, a kit with a detailed lower deck interior (just the interior - no hull or diorama or whatever).


Hi Fernando,
From Dave's comments I think you can safely assume Moebius will not make a Jupiter 2 lower deck anytime in the current millenia. This is why I suggested a downloadable paper model of the lower deck, in scale with the Moebius upper deck(I'm NOT asking _anything_ of Moebius, here, Dave. Hey Dave, did you read the part where I'm NOT asking _anything_ of Moebius here?...Dave?) 

Of course, depending on your printer, or the ones at your local Kinko's, you can print such a model directly on cardstock or sheet plastic, so don't be put off by the term "paper model".


----------



## Fernando Mureb

toyroy said:


> Hi Fernando,
> From Dave's comments I think you can safely assume Moebius will not make a Jupiter 2 lower deck anytime in the current millenia. ....
> 
> Of course, depending on your printer, or the ones at your local Kinko's, you can print such a model directly on cardstock or sheet plastic, so don't be put off by the term "paper model".


Hi Toyroy. It's kind of frustrating, for how could a cardboard model possibily represent, with a minimum acuracy, something like this (on image atached)?


----------



## Richard Baker

I have seen some cardborad models which were astounding in level of detal and complexe shapes. In this case however instead of using cardboard use it as a pattern for styrene plastic and layer on the detail like any scratch-built replica. It would not be quick or easy, but it would result in a good project.

.


----------



## Fernando Mureb

No doubt. But that means learn role new skills (I don't even know if I have the rights to call me a plastic model maker - maybe a snapshot toy assembler). And no matter how many time and effort I had employed in doing that, I'll never reach 1% of the beauty and accuracy of a Moebius model.

Please, don't misunderstand me. I'm not a lazy guy, but I can't figure out why an idea should be preliminarily discarded before a market research to find out if it can became a profit business. And forums like this are good field for those researches.

On the other hand, I remember that when Moebius first start producing Irwin Allen's models, people here begun asking for a J2 kit. If I'm not wrong, then Moebius said that there weren't plans to produce a J2, and here we are, with this fabulous kit.

So, unless I'm the only nerd here wanting a lower deck kit, they would better think a little bit more, before throw the idea into the trash can.

Fernando

PS 1 - hey, I speak Portuguese, so forgive my errors;
PS 2 - I wrote the words above in a perfect peace. I'm just feeling like a kid dreaming of a new Christmas gift.


----------



## toyroy

Fernando Mureb said:


> Hi Toyroy. It's kind of frustrating, for how could a cardboard model possibily represent, with a minimum acuracy, something like this (on image atached)?


Fernando,
Your picture shows a simple console. The details are printed, and can be very realistic- but you can spice it up with additional layers and detailing. This lower deck should be a _very_ easy build, as most parts are flat.

Now, all I need to do is find the lower deck model I've heard about...


----------



## woof359

you are not the only nerd here fernado, I think a modle of the 3 decks with no hull wood be kinda cool, but I know there just only so much a company can do, no matter how big or small. Of coarse of 3 deck kit wood have to show where they kept the chariot and how it was disasembled for flight.


----------



## Fernando Mureb

toyroy said:


> Fernando,
> Your picture shows a simple console....
> 
> Now, all I need to do is find the lower deck model I've heard about...





woof359 said:


> you are not the only nerd here fernado, I think a modle of the 3 decks with no hull wood be kinda cool,...


Hi guys. Thanks for being patient.

Just to put a "period" in this lower deck discussion, which, as a matter of fact, is out of topic (sorry), I'd say that each cardboard model is an entire scratch built model, and I'm not that talented.

I've seen some absolutely unbelievable Enterprise-1701 bridge in cardboard, but when I'll decide to built one, I'll buy the Enterprise Bridge from AMT.

I'm very happy with what I already have from Moebius (Seaview, FS, Chariot, SP and a pre-order of the J2 at Culttvman). But, I'll be patient. Who knows if Gary, Frank and Dave will change their minds one day?!

Now, let's go ahead: just 4 month to our J2!!:thumbsup:


----------



## toyroy

Fernando Mureb said:


> Just to put a "period" in this lower deck discussion,...I'd say that each cardboard model is an entire scratch built model, and I'm not that talented...


My apologies. I forget that some people don't care about anything beyond assembling kits.


----------



## Steve H

Richard Baker said:


> What amazes me is the large number of builders who scream about having to wait for conversion/accurizing kits instead of just chopping up some plastic and fixing things themselves.


Well, be fair.

It takes some impressive skill sets to do what some of you guys do. I mean, I could pull a RTV mold from the reactor wall in the Flying Sub kit, pour some resin and do that Aquafoil conversion but all that is about is making a copy of an existing part. 

If you asked me to make a shooting stage accurate replacement wall for the Jupiter 2 I'd be at a loss, let alone something like crafting new seats or something. 

Consider the builder who bought the PL Jupiter 2 kit and encountered those amazingly poor 'park benches' that passed for the pilot seats. Now, me, I could saw those suckers off, glue sheet plastic inside the hole and putty it smooth, but I hit the wall at that point. I would NEED those resin aftermarket seats. At least if I wanted it to look right.

There are folks who do want to correct issues (real or imagined, such as the whole 'live set Vs. filming model landing gear' battle), want to achieve a look, know they don't have the mad skillz and look to the clever folk who see a way to make some money on that need. So, more power to them.

And really, for those who ARE expecting to wait for parts, I really have a gut feeling that aftermarket parts and conversion stuff is going to be available at the same time the kit streets. Some things will take time as people size up what else the market wants but some of the obvious stuff like figures, and photoetch replacement parts, and spiffy decals, and vinyl paint masks, I have a STRONG hunch that those are all in pre-production even as we speak


----------



## woof359

*henry*

Im hoping henry had a good enough run on his launch gantry to at least consider one for this kit.


----------



## Fernando Mureb

toyroy said:


> My apologies. I forget that some people don't care about anything beyond assembling kits.





Richard Baker said:


> What amazes me is the large number of builders who scream about having to wait for conversion/accurizing kits instead of just chopping up some plastic and fixing things themselves.
> .


Well, as I've said, I speak Portuguese and maybe I didn't make myself clear on topic 154, when a wrote that "_each cardboard model is an entire scratch built model, and I'm not that talented_" and, even more, on topic 150, when I call myself "_a snapshot toy assembler_".

Continuing off-topic (sorry again), what I mean is that I'm a hobbyist just from the past four years, and only making plastic models. Well, this is nothing compares to most of you guys, although I've already readed sometimes, here and there, that some people have the same history of mines (use to be hobbyist from 10 to 18 and then there was this gap of almost 30 years, etc, etc).

The old fire lighted up again, all of a sudden, because I came across a PL J2 four years ago at the eBay (yes, then I didn't know that the kit had been produced almost 10 years earlier). I bought two. One to training and acquire some skills so that I could try doing something to be proud of using the other kit. 

And nevertheless my low level skills, I think I've been doing a decent job (see pics attached). Yes, four years have been past and I don't have the stuff done yet. I have plans to spent 5 hours a day having fun with my hobby, but unfortunately I can't do that at least on the next 10 years, until I get retired. So, my dedication is now limited to 1 hour a week!!!

So, I don't stay waiting for conversion/accurizin kits, when I feel I can do something reasonable (with a litlle help of my friends on the aftermarket). That is not the case of scratch built an entire J2 lower deck with card board.

Finishing, when I'd have the Moebius J2 in my hands I'll see what I could do in styrene. But, again, nothing that Moebius can't do 100 times better.

Best regards and sorry for the ugly quality of the pics.
Fernando


----------



## gojira61

Fernando Mureb said:


> each cardboard model is an entire scratch built model, and I'm not that talented


Really? I think your selling yourself a little short because those look pretty darn nice to me!

Jim


----------



## Hunch

Yes, those thumbnails look pretty sweet.


----------



## Fernando Mureb

gojira61 said:


> Really? I think your selling yourself a little short because those look pretty darn nice to me!
> 
> Jim





Hunch said:


> Yes, those thumbnails look pretty sweet.


Hey guys

Thank you for your kindness. The images are too bad because I took the shots quickly, only to have`m attached to the post. 

I'll take better pics. I have almost everything done with the panels, consoles, wall beams, astrogator, cabins, etc. There are detail to be done like, for example, the open/close buttons everywhere in the ship. And a lot of painting, gluing and lighting.

I could post the images of each part and even of all the parts together in the ship, although she is no ready. But I guess it`ll be an issue for another thread, won`t it?


----------



## toyroy

Fernando Mureb said:


> ...nevertheless my low level skills, I think I've been doing a decent job (see pics attached)...my dedication is now limited to 1 hour a week!!!
> 
> ...I don't stay waiting for conversion/accurizin kits, when I feel I can do something reasonable (with a litlle help of my friends on the aftermarket). That is not the case of scratch built an entire J2 lower deck with card board...


Fernando,
Nice work! I think that elevator cage and ladder is super! :thumbsup:

I think scratchbuilding sounds scarier than it really is. Whatever you want to do, have fun.


----------



## Fernando Mureb

Thanks Toyroy

Now, let's continue marking an "X" over each day on the calendar, until december. While waiting for the principal meal, we must survive eating some snaks (new test shots from Moebius). :wave:


----------



## jbond

I'm grossly generalizing, but my guess is the people who really obsess over these kind of details are also the kind of people who could do some of this scratchbuilding work. I'm more of a modeling impressionist, especially when it gets down to control panels and things that a.) probably changed a number of times over the course of a series' run and b.) that I know I'm not going to be able to reproduce the exact look of the original set no matter how much I try. But I appreciate the aftermarket stuff to help improve the look.


----------



## DR. PRETORIOUS

Excellent work!!!


----------



## Fernando Mureb

Thanks a lot.

I'm a life long fan of science fiction, especially a Irwin Allen and Gene Roddenberry fan.

But far above all stuff I've seen in my life as a fan is the Jupiter 2.

Man, I can't explain (maybe Freud could) but I'm totally crazy for this ship.:freak:

In general I'm meticulous and perfectionist with everything (between my limits, of course), but I never use to go so far detailing other kits (there won't have time at all).

However, when it's related to the J2... yes, I always loose my mind.


----------



## Dar

You probably like if for the same reasons we all do. It has a sleek exterior. Not to muddled with little gadgets and has a great profile. The interior has warm colors and lighting and feels like you could really live in their. Though the rooms are a bit small.:tongue: Even though the interior is scaled a little to big for the exterior it has a very nice layout and everything seen on screen actually has a function. Some things have two.:jest:


----------



## Fernando Mureb

For us, as kids, it's is more than a spaceship it's a "_spacehouse_", because we all knew every square inch of the two decks, although having never seen some (bathroom ).

Hey, while we are wainting for more Moebius J2 test shots, let me show some of my own (again, sorry for the image's bad quality).


----------



## Ron Gross

Fernando,
You do absolutely superior work. Thanks for sharing these images.
Ron G.


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## OzyMandias

Great work on the interior Fernando. Are you using a decal set for the details? It all looks very impressive.


----------



## Fernando Mureb

Ron Gross said:


> Fernando,
> You do absolutely superior work. Thanks for sharing these images.
> Ron G.


My God, it's Ron Gross in person? Are you talking to me?

You can't imagine how I feel honored with your kind words. I would feel in heaven if you have just noticed the post with a little comment: "good".

Since I started making models again four years ago, and decide begin with a PL J2, I did a detailed and extensive research, buying (eBay) everything written about the ship on books and manuals and, of course, reading each word related to this kit I could find on the Internet. 

And from the very beginning, I realized that if I wanted to do something at least decent, I would have to learn with the masters. And who would be the number 1 on this kit? His father, of course!!!. So, there is nothing you have written in sites and forums which I haven't read and copied.

I'm in great debt with you, deserving be mentioned guys like Starseeker, Robert Hargrave, Simon Mercs, Steve Payne, Jim Pizzar, the Pendercraft crew, Steve "CultTVMan" and many others.

Well, what can I say more?

Thanks a lot Sir!! I'll try to get better shots.


----------



## Fernando Mureb

OzyMandias said:


> Great work on the interior Fernando. Are you using a decal set for the details? It all looks very impressive.


I used decals from Outer Space Outfitters, TSDS and Jim James, and also some I did for my own (the "lighted" panels over the consoles at the laboratory and auxiliary control).

Where each of them wil fit better depend on the exact place you want to use them. The decals from Outer Space Outfitters were my choice to cover all the consoles.


----------



## toyroy

Just curious: how many folks are planning to build their Moebius kit as an in-flight Jupiter 2, or as a crash site diorama? And is anyone going to try to build retractable landing gear?


----------



## fastlap

toyroy said:


> And is anyone going to try to build retractable landing gear?


I am, I am.....:wave:


----------



## g_xii

*Launch Pad*



woof359 said:


> Im hoping henry had a good enough run on his launch gantry to at least consider one for this kit.


Just waiting on a test-shot to fine tune it!

--Henry









.


----------



## woof359

*launch gantry*

sign me up henry, cant wait. this one shood be big enough to add lights too.


----------



## g_xii

Yes -- this one will be big enough to easily add lights. A dremmel cutting tool run up the facing channels will allow wires to be run and pretty much hidden.

It's pretty big ...!

--Henry


----------



## Ron Gross

Henry,
I'm sure it will be an excellent accessory kit.


----------



## Ron Gross

Fernando Mureb said:


> Thanks a lot Sir!! I'll try to get better shots.


Fernando,
I'm really looking forward to seeing as many images as you want to share.
Ron G.


----------



## toyroy

Looks great, Henry! Now, I'll need some blacklight paint, and some u.v. LED's...


----------



## JAT

toyroy said:


> Just curious: how many folks are planning to build their Moebius kit as an in-flight Jupiter 2, or as a crash site diorama? And is anyone going to try to build retractable landing gear?


Have some definite ideas of what I want to do with a crash site dio, also planning my own take on the launch cradle facility. But with these things being the size they are, how large a base am I looking at for even a modest sized diorama? Am also considering an jn-flight version, but don't care for the idea of wire suspension and have not yet found an unobtrusive means of supporting it from below. Thoughts?


----------



## Steve H

JAT said:


> Have some definite ideas of what I want to do with a crash site dio, also planning my own take on the launch cradle facility. But with these things being the size they are, how large a base am I looking at for even a modest sized diorama? Am also considering an jn-flight version, but don't care for the idea of wire suspension and have not yet found an unobtrusive means of supporting it from below. Thoughts?


Well, depending on what else you plan (lighted fusion core?), and if you want it removable (because you WILL want to 'fly' it around the room from time to time, admit it. we all will), how about this?

something like a bayonet mount. you make a slit in the lower hull, offside from where you want your main viewing angle to be, and below the line of the floor. inside the hull you mount a...gah, there's words for this stuff but I'm feeling more 'mad cow' than usual today, a rectangular tube matching the slit in the hull, then make a support on an arm with a tang that fits into the slit and tube. If you have the skill you can make a sweeping art deco support, or just a vertical post with a right angle arm to the tang. Or you might 'repurpose' some form of adjustable table lamp for the support.

Then when you want to examine your Jupiter 2 (i.e. fly it around the room) you just slide it off the tang and there's just a small slit in the hull. And hey, no reason why you couldn't take some sheet plastic and make a plug that can cover that!

Of course this would all depend on how much space whatever extras you wish to build into it take, I'm gonna assume that any aftermarket lighting kit is going to be designed to drop right into the space available in the kit and you may have to modify some things, I dunno.

I'm sure some of the clever people here can improve on this idea


----------



## toyroy

JAT said:


> ...Am also considering an jn-flight version, but don't care for the idea of wire suspension and have not yet found an unobtrusive means of supporting it from below. Thoughts?


I like Steve's side-support idea. Depending on where on the wall you anchor the support arm, it can be pretty inconspicuous, and make the model look really good. Of course, it can also act as a power and control connection.


----------



## JAT

toyroy said:


> I like Steve's side-support idea. Depending on where on the wall you anchor the support arm, it can be pretty inconspicuous, and make the model look really good. Of course, it can also act as a power and control connection.


Thanks to both Steve and Toyroy. Was wondering about the possibility also of leaving off one of the pad hatches ( I believe that I read that they would be separate parts ) and use that as my attachment point for the support, with some reinforcement built up inside. Does that sound plausible?


----------



## JAT

additionally, was planning not so much of an in-flight diorama, but the approach to crashing, passing the rock structures ( which is one of my fondest memory images from the series ) and using the rock structure as a support base for whatever I rig up to hold the actual Jupiter. As for taking it off to fly around....NEVER occurred to me. not once, nope. And I am NOT practicing those great revving up sounds when she landed either, in the dark, in private.


----------



## tardis61

djnick66 said:


> There is a beautiful downloadable model of the whole ship, interior and all... VERY nicely done. Its not in color but you can add color in Paint Shop, etc. There is also a nice color space pod and a crude b/w Robot download. But the J2 is excellent...


Hi There

How does one get a copy of this model?

A general comment on the main test shot from Gary & Frank

Oh Bliss Oh Joy Oh Crepe Suzette.

I wish it was christmas every day, or something like that

Roy wood and Wizzard

I'll just cryo freeze mself for sixmonths....


----------



## toyroy

JAT said:


> ...Was wondering about the possibility also of leaving off one of the pad hatches ( I believe that I read that they would be separate parts ) and use that as my attachment point for the support, with some reinforcement built up inside. Does that sound plausible?


To support from the side, yes- you'll need some serious strength to hold the model. I'm picturing a two-pronged, fork shaped support piece firmly attached to the underside of the deck.


----------



## toyroy

djnick66 said:


> There is a beautiful downloadable model of the whole ship, interior and all... VERY nicely done. Its not in color but you can add color in Paint Shop, etc. There is also a nice color space pod and a crude b/w Robot download. But the J2 is excellent...





tardis61 said:


> ...How does one get a copy of this model?...


I believe this is the model DJNick referred to:

http://www.b9robotbuildersclub.com/pub/gallery/memberphotos/images/joen/Jupiter-II-Fulls.pdf

I don't see any lower level detail aside from the landing gear. Ron Caudillo also made a Jupiter 2 card model, but I don't think it had any lower level detail, either.


----------



## Steve H

toyroy said:


> To support from the side, yes- you'll need some serious strength to hold the model. I'm picturing a two-pronged, fork shaped support piece firmly attached to the underside of the deck.


I really don't know the best solution, I just thought the tang and slot idea would prevent the ship from trying to rotate, but a fork or prong would work as well.

And maybe even better, actually, depending.

You *could* add the (conjecture) attitude thrusters as small holes, patterned after the vernier thrusters on the Gemini capsules, and with proper mounting you'd have a number of places you could mount it on a stand. What I would suggest is getting some small screws and bolt that flight deck to the support ribs in the lower hull, in addition to gluing it. Then with brass tubing backing the holes in the hull you'd have very strong and secure mounting points.

Hm, suddenly strikes me that if you did that you'd be able to still lift the upper hull off to display the interior if you wanted to. Kind of a shame they chose to forego the couple of parts to make the airlock complete but as has been mentioned it should be simple to make the walls, and I fully expect someone will do resin parts (or would photoetch brass be better?) to complete this area.


----------



## woof359

any one know how much the FS1 model wieghs?

the thing to do is find somthing unobtrusive that well slip in behind the hull and keep the kit from rotating on it, yet be able to slide the hull off the kit when you want to,


----------



## g_xii

woof359 said:


> any one know how much the FS1 model wieghs?
> 
> the thing to do is find somthing unobtrusive that well slip in behind the hull and keep the kit from rotating on it, yet be able to slide the hull off the kit when you want to,


That's such a cool little mini-diorama! I whittled (if that's the right word!) a little launch pad for my JL J2 six years or so ago at the office, using parts of the landing gear and a piece of scrap plastic I had sitting around.

--Henry


----------



## OzyMandias

g_xii said:


> That's such a cool little mini-diorama! I whittled (if that's the right word!) a little launch pad for my JL J2 six years or so ago at the office, using parts of the landing gear and a piece of scrap plastic I had sitting around.
> 
> --Henry


Wow Henry, you could have a small (pardon the pun) market for those mini Launch Pads. Great stuff!


----------



## g_xii

OzyMandias said:


> Wow Henry, you could have a small (pardon the pun) market for those mini Launch Pads. Great stuff!


I know! Actually, I stuck it up on ebay right after I made it, and sold it for like $75 bucks! One of these days I'll make a nice one and manufacture it!

--H


----------



## woof359

I woodnt mind having one Henry. I still have gobs of those some where. not to mention some of those Luner 6 inch Jupes


----------



## g_xii

OK - I'll add it to my "project" list and see what I come up with. I want to make something a bit nicer than what I made the first time, tho. Hell, I barely even sanded that first one that I made!


----------



## toyroy

That'll open up a market for an improved Johnny Lightning-sized J2! And a small printed launchsite backdrop, and the gantry towers...


----------



## woof359

*small*

works for me henry, somthing small for the office.


----------



## Fernando Mureb

toyroy said:


> Just curious: how many folks are planning to build their Moebius kit as an in-flight Jupiter 2, or as a crash site diorama? And is anyone going to try to build retractable landing gear?


I plan to built my kit in landing position and, after having everything done, scratch built a detailed lower deck in the same scale (with subceiling and lighting), below the "land" of a crash site diorama (no lower hull or any concern about coerency etc, etc, etc, because the LD will be burried).

I'll do that even it lasts 10 years. Unless Moebius save me.


----------



## Gemini1999

Fernando Mureb said:


> I plan to built my kit in landing position and, after having everything done, scratch built a detailed lower deck in the same scale (with subceiling and lighting), below the "land" of a crash site diorama (no lower hull or any concern about coerency etc, etc, etc, because the LD will be burried).
> 
> I'll do that even it lasts 10 years. Unless Moebius save me.


Fernando -

I haven't said so before, but I find the work that you've done on the lower deck so far to be very detailed and quite visually appealing. It would be nice to see a complete lower deck done with great attention to detail, even if it doesn't fit into the upcoming model. It would make a great display!

As for "how I will build my J2".... I'm gonna build it with the landing gear down. It would be a shame to waste all those lovely parts that Moebius is taking such great care to make. If I want an "in flight" version of the J2, I can always build up my PL J2 - I wasn't too keen on the landing gear that came with it anyways.

Bryan


----------



## g_xii

I agree with Gemini, Fernando. Your work is quite inspiring! It looks great so far, and I can't wait to see more photos myself.

--Henry


----------



## Fernando Mureb

Ron Gross said:


> Fernando,
> I'm really looking forward to seeing as many images as you want to share.
> Ron G.





Gemini1999 said:


> Fernando -
> I haven't said so before, but I find the work that you've done on the lower deck so far to be very detailed and quite visually appealing. It would be nice to see a complete lower deck done with great attention to detail, even if it doesn't fit into the upcoming model. It would make a great display!
> 
> Bryan





g_xii said:


> I agree with Gemini, Fernando. Your work is quite inspiring! It looks great so far, and I can't wait to see more photos myself.
> --Henry


Ok folks. Thank you all for the encouragement. Although I have done nothing concerning to painting the hull and decks floors, I will try to take good shots from both decks completely assembled and individual close shots of the various panel walls, cabins, galey and other sectors of both decks.
I'll also try to get images of the upper deck panel walls lighted from behind.
Please, give me some time to do that.


----------



## g_xii

Oh, I'm sure we can wait -- just don't forget we want to see how it all comes out! It's really great stuff!

--Henry


----------



## Steve H

I have to say, I am really torn on how to build the new J2. Landing Gear down is the obvious, default build (just as with most current aircraft kits-gone are the days of 'in flight' being the default with holes in the fuselage you plugged the struts into!) but gosh darn it, when you REALLY think about it, there's two ways we all picture the Jupiter 2 in our heads- in flight and belly-down on the soundstage at Fox Studios.

But it's such a shame to lose that lower hull, hide it in plaster or foam. I don't think there was EVER a campsite on a planet where the J2 was up on its legs on a planet surface, and everyone just walking around, doing their thing, going in and out of the ship. 

Plus, it goes without saying that most ANY 'campsite' base is gonna be huge. You HAVE to have SOME ground showing around the ship.

Yeah, Yeah, I know, buy several kits, build ALL the variations. I wish! 

So, I just don't know. I guess I'll have to wait for some kind of flash of insight.


----------



## bert model maker

the great vegatable rebellion is the only episode i think, where they landed legs down on the planet. You could only see the bottom of the ship & one landing leg. Oh wait, in season 2 blast off into space, the jupiter 2 lifted off from a belly down position BUT, the legs were down when it lifted off from the ground. never could fiqure that one out.


----------



## toyroy

Steve H said:


> ...I am really torn on how to build the new J2. Landing Gear down is the obvious, default build...but...when you REALLY think about it, there's two ways we all picture the Jupiter 2 in our heads- in flight and belly-down on the soundstage at Fox Studios.
> 
> ...Yeah, Yeah, I know, buy several kits, build ALL the variations. I wish!...


It's certainly easy enough to scratchbuild(!!!!!!:beatdeadhorse:!!?!?) the straight-sided crashsite J2. You could even build it so as to use either the Polar Lights or Moebius interior- and thus free up the kit hull for an in-flight or landing gear model.


----------



## Steve H

toyroy said:


> It's certainly easy enough to scratchbuild(!!!!!!:beatdeadhorse:!!?!?) the straight-sided crashsite J2. You could even build it so as to use either the Polar Lights or Moebius interior- and thus free up the kit hull for an in-flight or landing gear model.


Well, I *did* have a thought of building the interior as the set on the soundstage. Make modifications so the backs of the walls looked like 'flats' with the wood bracing, cables everywhere for the lights, make a couple of the wall sections 'wild' and pulled away for the camera and stuff.

But I'd need a LOT more research on what the backs of the set looked like to get it right. I could probably fake it but...

But who am I kidding? I'll be lucky to buy the kit, rattlecan some silver on the hull...


----------



## Dave Metzner

*Jupiter 2 general discussion thread*

I have just separated all the postings that were unrelated to the Moebius J-2 test shot thread and I have moved all that discussion to this new thread.
If you wish to continue the general discussion of J-2 topics not related to the Moebius J-2 test shot this is the thread to use.
I will continue to remove off topic posts from the original J-2 test shot thread so that people who are interested in the test shot can find pertinent information there without unrelated posts.

Dave


----------



## gareee

Thanks MUCH, Dave. You'd think people would respect your wishes with intended preview threads.


----------



## Dave Metzner

Nothing seems to keep this group on topic!

Dave


----------



## j2man

copd lol


----------



## Antimatter

Dave Metzner said:


> Nothing seems to keep this group on topic!
> 
> Dave


I've put in a request for some stimulus money so I can stay on topic. $10,000 might do it.


----------



## j2man

I could use a bit of those funds myself. I would use it to purchase some Jupiter 2 subject matter..........


----------



## Ron Gross

Dave Metzner said:


> Nothing seems to keep this group on topic!
> 
> Dave


You are attempting to apply logic and strict rules to something that has a highly emotional component.

...and that emotional component is the very thing that will drive sales of this product!

Anyway, it was still a good idea to separate the threads.


----------



## toyroy

toyroy said:


> It's certainly easy enough to scratchbuild the straight-sided crashsite J2. You could even build it so as to use either the Polar Lights or Moebius interior...





Steve H said:


> Well, I *did* have a thought of building the interior as the set on the soundstage. Make modifications so the backs of the walls looked like 'flats' with the wood bracing, cables everywhere for the lights, make a couple of the wall sections 'wild' and pulled away for the camera and stuff.
> 
> But I'd need a LOT more research on what the backs of the set looked like to get it right...


Believe it or not, someone in one of the yahoo LiS groups built just what you're talking about. Too much of the nuts-and-bolts of production, especially the filming of ordinary shots, kind of bores me. Now, a diorama of filming of Jupiter 2 special effects- that would be different!

As for crashsite dioramas, you could depict a scene without any of the real-world production details, and still use an alien landscape backdrop.


----------



## woof359

Bill Hedges scratch built the crash site set complete with camers and stage hands, it awsome.


----------



## woof359

*lets pick on the show*

watching Junkyard, i noticed the upper floor is 3 colors not 2, the door left of the elevator concels stairs leading down and a hall.


----------



## woof359

Junkyard has a great shot of the foot pad doors sliding closed.


----------



## toyroy

woof359 said:


> Junkyard has a great shot of the foot pad doors sliding closed.


Yep. That landing gear is _so cool_. Did Kinoshita specify all the operational fine points? If not, then who did?


----------



## woof359

the few cons I have been to,the 2 people I wood have liked to seen and talked to most wood have been irwin, ya know, did you noticed the differance in props kinda thing (-:

but Bob K I could have asked a zillion question, who came up with what, what didnt irwin like, who make the first saucer, ect ect ect...........


----------



## toyroy

woof359 said:


> Bill Hedges scratch built the crash site set complete with camers and stage hands, it awsome.


I looked around for it on the _Props_ group, but there's just so many files and pics to go through...

Starting with a Moebius model, you'd need a full-size building, just to represent the sound stage!


----------



## toyroy

woof359 said:


> watching Junkyard, i noticed the upper floor is 3 colors not 2...


Yeah, I'm gonna need to get together some good references for colors. DVD grabs, and such. Maybe now is a good time to get a DVD player? Or just look at my old Viewmaster set again...


----------



## woof359

http://s180.photobucket.com/albums/x243/woof359/LIS stage/


----------



## toyroy

That's it! Amazing, how much the alien rock formations resemble dog poo. :devil:

_JUST KIDDING!_

The soundstage makes for an interesting shadowbox.


----------



## Fernando Mureb

Hey Woof, it's a very nice aproach for a diorama.:thumbsup:
I'm curious. Which of the figures is Irwin Allen?
You could put a figure dressed like a carrot stands beside him, as a tribute.:wave:


----------



## starseeker

That is possibly the coolest Jupiter 2 diorama I've ever seen! (Edit: what am I saying "possibly"? I doubt I'll ever see anything to match it!) Thanks for posting that link. That is amazing. It's even episode specific. Love Bob May getting suited up. Love... everything! How big is the little Jupiter 2? It must be the smallest ever made! 
Wonderful imagination and beautiful execution.


----------



## woof359

the crash site was scratch built buy Bill Hedges, hes in the process of recreating a lower level state room and it looking good.


----------



## toyroy

Is this stateroom full size?


----------



## woof359

about 3/4, its a guest room in his basment/family room area


----------



## woof359

I added Bills partial finished room and his scratched built hyper rocket


----------



## StarshipClass

Was there a roof on the J2 set? My impression is that they raised up the sides to a height well above the door (which also made it impossible to reconcile with the miniatures).


----------



## toyroy

I think if I were going to choose one ship area to replicate full size, it would be the galley. A nice area with seats and a table for eating, talking, and playing chess. The staterooms are more like small prison cells.


----------



## Ron Gross

PerfesserCoffee said:


> Was there a roof on the J2 set? My impression is that they raised up the sides to a height well above the door (which also made it impossible to reconcile with the miniatures).


After the final modifications were made to the set, there was no roof as most would define it. There is a long shot in "The Raft" that clearly shows an extended and unfinished top. Additionally, there are "behind the scenes" photos that show technical equipment positioned up there.


----------



## woof359

I noticed when the chariot pulls away from the crash site in the angry sea the top of the hatch is even with the roof, later on in the show the top of the hatch clearly has atleast 2 feet of hull above the door,


----------



## Gary K

Ron Gross said:


> After the final modifications were made to the set, there was no roof as most would define it. There is a long shot in "The Raft" that clearly shows an extended and unfinished top. Additionally, there are "behind the scenes" photos that show technical equipment positioned up there.


And here is one of those "behind the scenes" photos:











In addition, there was no ceiling, per se, on the interior flight deck set, which greatly simplified lighting of the set. The inner edge of the soffit extended upward, to form a featureless cylinder. The overhead studio lights evenly illuminated the cylinder, and to the TV audience, it appeared to be a ceiling. You can see the cylinder in this uncropped publicity shot:










Gary


----------



## JAT

Gary K said:


> And here is one of those "behind the scenes" photos:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In addition, there was no ceiling, per se, on the interior flight deck set, which greatly simplified lighting of the set. The inner edge of the soffit extended upward, to form a featureless cylinder. The overhead studio lights evenly illuminated the cylinder, and to the TV audience, it appeared to be a ceiling. You can see the cylinder in this uncropped publicity shot:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gary


Always wondered what those two angled ribs were that extended down the ramp. Possibly to keep the robot in frame and on track, or from falling off the side?


----------



## woof359




----------



## woof359

Irwin must have spent a fortune changing things
http://s180.photobucket.com/albums/x243/woof359/interior/


----------



## bert model maker

yeah woof, & I bet he had a fun time doing it ! I bet you can't wait for your new moebius Jupiter 2 ! how are you thinking of displaying it ( them) ?
Bert


----------



## woof359

dont get me wrong, the huge hull gonna be a problem finding a place for it, but I dont think I wood buy it if it was the same size as the PL's. gonna buy at least 2, one in flight and one on the legs. Hoping henry builds a gantry. wont need any lights, while they are cool to have, I did get tired of turning them on and off.


----------



## StarshipClass

Gary K said:


> And here is one of those "behind the scenes" photos:


Thanks, Gary! That's exactly the way I had imagined it had to look if seen from the side like that--totally distorted. At least it passed for the ship during filming from the angles they showed it.:freak:

It might be interesting to see what this version would look like if worked up into a complete model miniature.


----------



## StarshipClass

JAT said:


> In addition, there was no ceiling, per se, on the interior flight deck set, which greatly simplified lighting of the set. The inner edge of the soffit extended upward, to form a featureless cylinder. The overhead studio lights evenly illuminated the cylinder, and to the TV audience, it appeared to be a ceiling. You can see the cylinder in this uncropped publicity shot:


Fascinating trick! Thanks for the info!:thumbsup:



woof359 said:


> Irwin must have spent a fortune changing things
> http://s180.photobucket.com/albums/x243/woof359/interior/


Very illuminating pictures!!! They explain a lot. I like the more realistic shots with the lower and visible edge to the roof better I think. Thanks for showing! :thumbsup:


----------



## Fernando Mureb

Ron Gross said:


> After the final modifications were made to the set, there was no roof as most would define it. There is a long shot in "The Raft" that clearly shows an extended and unfinished top. Additionally, there are "behind the scenes" photos that show technical equipment positioned up there.





woof359 said:


> Irwin must have spent a fortune changing things
> http://s180.photobucket.com/albums/x243/woof359/interior/





woof359 said:


>


I've ever believed there was a ceiling with kind of "doors" to, eventualy, allow equipment to be introduced in the set.

The optical illusion made by the cylinder walls, after the ceiling removal, is perfect.

Thanks woof.


----------



## Ductapeforever

Oddly Familiar,...a series for the future perhaps!


----------



## j2man

That's so funny Ductape! I had thought about doing almost that to a tee! Be sure to post your final product!


----------



## teslabe

Ductapeforever said:


> Oddly Familiar,...a series for the future perhaps!


Great job, Ductape......:thumbsup:


----------



## toyroy

Ductapeforever said:


> Oddly Familiar,...a series for the future perhaps!





j2man said:


> That's so funny Ductape! I had thought about doing almost that to a tee! Be sure to post your final product!





teslabe said:


> Great job, Ductape......:thumbsup:


What is it, a Japanese _Transformer_ toy? Some kind of dispenser?


----------



## Paulbo

toyroy said:


> What is it, a Japanese _Transformer_ toy? Some kind of dispenser?


It's the Pegasus Hobbies Area 51 UFO: http://www.pegasushobbies.com/prod scifi area51.html 

Great interpretive job, Duct! (Though there's still no room for the lower level  )


----------



## StarshipClass

Ductapeforever said:


> Oddly Familiar,...a series for the future perhaps!


Kudos! Excellent!:thumbsup:


----------



## Ductapeforever

My interpretation is based on the Gemini series colonization vessel,perhaps a manufacturers proof of concept model. This design does not allow for a second deck, or a third,...thank the maker! I wasn't going to do an interior, now it's a possibility. Oh God, another project!


----------



## Fernando Mureb

One question that always intrigued me was why they didn't raise the level of the ship surrounding ground to the point market in the thumb atached. May be due low budget restrictions? Even for me, as a kid, this was an unforgivable mistake.


----------



## Krel

The set was on rollers, piling dirt against it would have made it harder to move for camera set-ups, or maintenance.

David.


----------



## woof359

*I agree*



Fernando Mureb said:


> One question that always intrigued me was why they didn't raise the level of the ship surrounding ground to the point market in the thumb atached. May be due low budget restrictions? Even for me, as a kid, this was an unforgivable mistake.


I used to draw the crash site back then and with out the aid of a VCR and reruns every other week I just didnt remember the trailer skirting while it was in flight.


----------



## toyroy

Fernando Mureb said:


> ...Even for me, as a kid, this was an unforgivable mistake.


I agree.


----------



## toyroy

Krel said:


> The set was on rollers, piling dirt against it would have made it harder to move for camera set-ups, or maintenance.


Even foam "special effects" dirt?


----------



## Steve H

Ductapeforever said:


> My interpretation is based on the Gemini series colonization vessel,perhaps a manufacturers proof of concept model. This design does not allow for a second deck, or a third,...thank the maker! I wasn't going to do an interior, now it's a possibility. Oh God, another project!


Well, since we can talk about that here, now... 

OK, lots of questions about the whole colony thing, and we probably agree that shooting off 6 people at a time isn't going to move much population. So let's take it that a. There's already a base, a fort, an outpost in position at Alpha C, and B. The Gemini XII represents a kind of rushed 'colony in space soonest' approach. Maybe by putting the Robinsons there they could lay claim to the planet or some such. 

So maybe your model is the standard 'space force' ship, a bit more military, a bit more rugged, and designed to be reused (while the Robinson's ship is meant to be a 'covered wagon', taken apart for materials upon landing)

It's a good mod and a fun looking project! me, I have these insane thoughts of getting that kit and making a USAF 'Aerodyne' from the book series 'Warbots'.


----------



## Gemini1999

Fernando Mureb said:


> One question that always intrigued me was why they didn't raise the level of the ship surrounding ground to the point market in the thumb atached. May be due low budget restrictions? Even for me, as a kid, this was an unforgivable mistake.


Fernando -

I've been watching some Season 2 episodes and I noticed that on the episodes so far, you can't see the "skirting" around the ship. The sand on the set is nearly up to the waistline of the J2, so it looks a bit less like a set piece and more like it should.

Bryan


----------



## StarshipClass

Fernando Mureb said:


> One question that always intrigued me was why they didn't raise the level of the ship surrounding ground to the point market in the thumb atached. May be due low budget restrictions? Even for me, as a kid, this was an unforgivable mistake.


I've thought that every time I've noticed it during the series. It's one of those imponderables. I doubt anyone alive today would know what was going on then with that particular feature.


----------



## robiwon

I have the perfect answer for the skirting effect of the crash site J2. Ready?



It's an expandable camper! You know, the pull behind campers that expand to the sides and the roof rises up? Same thing here. The J2 expands and raises it's roof for more living space. Hey, I think that fits in an Irwin Allen world!:wave:


----------



## Paulbo

That's flipping hilarious ... and an intriguing possibility.

(The only minor flaw with the logic: they use the lower level while the ship's in space and we see the FX shots of non-expanded ship. Drat!)


----------



## robiwon

Eh, it was just a thought!:wave:


----------



## toyroy

robiwon said:


> I have the perfect answer for the skirting effect of the crash site J2...It's an expandable camper...


That's similar to the idea I proposed for the third level; namely, that the core dropped down, to allow access. Like opening the hood on a car, to access the engine.


----------



## toyroy

PerfesserCoffee said:


> ...I doubt anyone alive today would know what was going on then with that particular feature.


I presume you know that the skirting, whether hidden or visible, was necessitated by the "wild" sections- which were removed for shooting on the main deck.


----------



## StarshipClass

toyroy said:


> I presume you know that the skirting, whether hidden or visible, was necessitated by the "wild" sections- which were removed for shooting on the main deck.


Well, er, [sputter] er, not until you told me! 

Seriously, I still don't understand why they couldn't have made either more curve or brushed up some dirt or at least painted the straight "collar" dark gray to resemble a shadow--which is the question that I had( but did not adequately express) about the collar section rather than wondering about its actual function.


----------



## j2man

Oh to have been a fly on the wall in those early days while production was being put together by Irwin and his crew.........If some of you guys posed some of your questions to him, sheesh can you imagine his reaction? Let's just say "fired fired fired". lol Bet you couldn't get a word in edgewise.


----------



## Fernando Mureb

Gemini1999 said:


> Fernando -
> 
> I've been watching some Season 2 episodes and I noticed that on the episodes so far, you can't see the "skirting" around the ship. The sand on the set is nearly up to the waistline of the J2, so it looks a bit less like a set piece and more like it should.
> 
> Bryan


Yes. I guess they considered that the fans "suspension of disbelief" had a limit. And, after all, how much would be the cost of some fake (foam) little rocks placed around and below the seam line simulating even a more realistic crash scene?


----------



## j2man

I recall that someting in the jupiter 2 handbook saying that the jupiter 2 hovered over it's landing spot and laid down some sort of support to land on. LOL The author back then was trying to explain a lot of the questions you guys have about the jupiter. He was very creative in a lot of his explanations...........Unitechnic field projection, annahalation drive.............smith-tomlinson effect...........etc.


----------



## toyroy

Thinking ahead here, to what modifications might make a removeable upper hull more practical, for a better display of the interior.

I think flat rings would help to strengthen the hull edges. If wide enough, they could also be fitted with locator pins and holes. I would make these using a beam compass with a cutter tip. One thing: the hull is fairly large(18" dia.,) so that one would need a couple of rather large sheets, or assemblies of smaller sheets, to cut the rings from. At this point, I don't know what might be needed, to work around the hatch ramp.


----------



## toyroy

toyroy said:


> ...the skirting, whether hidden or visible, was necessitated by the "wild" sections- which were removed for shooting on the main deck.





PerfesserCoffee said:


> ...why (couldn't they) have made either more (lower hull) curve or brushed up some dirt or at least painted the straight "collar" dark gray to resemble a shadow...


There was a discussion on one of the yahoo LiS groups which showed specifically how the interior made a full hull undercut impossible. As to why little or no effort was made at some times(the first and third seasons, by my recollection) to conceal the skirting, or collar- I don't know.


----------



## Steve H

toyroy said:


> Thinking ahead here, to what modifications might make a removeable upper hull more practical, for a better display of the interior.
> 
> I think flat rings would help to strengthen the hull edges. If wide enough, they could also be fitted with locator pins and holes. I would make these using a beam compass with a cutter tip. One thing: the hull is fairly large(18" dia.,) so that one would need a couple of rather large sheets, or assemblies of smaller sheets, to cut the rings from. At this point, I don't know what might be needed, to work around the hatch ramp.


Well, as I commented above and got the 'gonna close this!' folk going, it looks like the design is that the sofit and the interior as a whole acts as the bracing for the upper hull part. I suspect if this had been an Aurora project the hull would be thicker, which of course would have created different problems. It *appears*, if I read between the lines, there was a desire to have something akin to 'actual scale thickness' of the hull. Maybe. most likely just a desire to use just enough plastic to keep costs down.

Polycaps are all the rage in Japan, those soft vinyl things are very useful. It could be that by extending the 'major pegs' in the upper hull and embedding polycap sleeves in the lower half you'd get that needed friction to keep the edges tight but the top still removable.

Dave gets prickly about such things (and I do see his point) but I think it may have been a mistake to not build in the ability to 'pop the top' and look at all that lovely detail. Recall, they DID design the Flying Sub with that in mind, at least to some point. 

I'm sure it was likely an engineering thing. making a removable upper hull would call for a stronger hull, which might interfere with the interior.

Well, solutions will be found, I have faith in that.


----------



## Ductapeforever

Hello Folks, I am the CEO of an Engineering firm , myself and two other guys in my company are hardcore LIS fans from day one. We have put our heads together and are diligently working on many of the issues that have been discussed here. You all have seen my work and know that I crave detail, realism, and a modicum of accuracy (with some imaginative license thrown in). I will keep you all up to date on any "McGiver" inspired 'fixes' we can come up with. All I need is a kit in hand to begin the" impossible".
...this tape will self distruct in 5 seconds! Ooops, wrong show.


----------



## Moebius

Steve H said:


> Dave gets prickly about such things (and I do see his point) but I think it may have been a mistake to not build in the ability to 'pop the top' and look at all that lovely detail. Recall, they DID design the Flying Sub with that in mind, at least to some point.


From the way I look at it, the larger locators on the upper J2 hull are pretty close to the Flying Subs. If the FS comes apart easily for you, this will too. There's not much of a way to strengthen this with it sitting on three legs. Due to the wieght, I think any thickness of hull will slightly sag. With the halves attached to each other, it sits pretty well. There's only so much that can be done with this, as it is a kit, not a $1000 prefinished version that would be expected to do everything.


----------



## Steve H

Moebius said:


> From the way I look at it, the larger locators on the upper J2 hull are pretty close to the Flying Subs. If the FS comes apart easily for you, this will too. There's not much of a way to strengthen this with it sitting on three legs. Due to the wieght, I think any thickness of hull will slightly sag. With the halves attached to each other, it sits pretty well. There's only so much that can be done with this, as it is a kit, not a $1000 prefinished version that would be expected to do everything.


And a $1000 prefinished version (assuming it actually came out- we've been burned by THAT before, haven't we?  ) would still have its own problems, compromises, and defects both real and imagined.

There are aspects of the Jupiter 2 that just don't work. Not unless you get to something like a 4 foot kit.

One thing that I still think will end up being the smart thing to do is screw the floor to the thicker braces in the lower hull. I *think* that would both strengthen the lower hull and further 'lock in' the landing gear wells. Also, replacing the 'retraction strut' with brass tube may be a consideration, as we've seen that that is (or appears to be) the main load bearing element.


----------



## woof359

so how did they get the 4 foot miniture apart of maintance ?


----------



## woof359

I noticed this hull doesnt have that boss around the lower hull where the fusion core mate to the hull nice change,leg struts are missing teliscoping lower tube. no fins?

I know this is a test shot.............................


----------



## RSN

woof359 said:


> I noticed this hull doesnt have that boss around the lower hull where the fusion core mate to the hull nice change,leg struts are missing teliscoping lower tube. no fins?
> 
> I know this is a test shot.............................


Oh for Pete's sake. They picked the fin-less fusion core for this build-up, it will come with both, you get to decide for yourself which one to use. Wrap a few layers of tape around the struts to build them out at the top, seal with superglue and sand. As for strengthening the hull, there is a lot of empty space around the edges, get a contour gage, make a pattern and cut ribs to go around the perimeter. "Problem" solved!


----------



## BlackbirdCD

Man, that model looks FANTASTIC. I can't wait!


----------



## Dave Metzner

Woof, the Landing gear legs telescopuing sections.have been addressed and will be revised .
There is no boss around the fusion core opening. I don't think that there is such a boss on the actual miiatures. Trust me the fusion core with extended fins fits just fine and looks great!

So Roy, You didn't like my answer above and you had to come down here to complain about it. 
No the sofit and the interior don't even touch the upper hull, they do not brace anything they simply sit on top of the landing gear wells in the lower hull and the whole thing is covered by the upper hull.
The design is done the modifications sent to the factory the window for making chages is closed - so grab the kit when it hits the store shelves - build it when you get it and please quit trying to re-design it for me!

And you wonder why I close threads!?

I'm sure that those who want to find a way to remove the upper hull will figure something out...

Dave


----------



## Ductapeforever

Hey Guys, give Dave a break. The J-2 kit is not your average jar of spaghetti sauce, like the commercial says,"...it's in there!" Frank and Dave, the answer to this dilemma is a simple one,a bit of advice; use this as a learning experience. Next highly anticipated kit, make the announcement, then don't tell them "ANY" details till it hits the shelves! Period!
That will teach 'em. Your very fortunate guys, that Moebius takes time out to do this,other manufacturers don't, and Moebius most likely won't after this kit. You were warned!


----------



## Ductapeforever

Dave, I admire, and applaud the work Moebius has done to date, large,beautiful, well engineered models of some really forgotten overlooked kit subjects. Keep on keeping on guys, don't let the minority dictate how to do your jobs. Treat the children like children and like Aurora blaze a trail into the industry's history books as the BEST STUFF OUT THERE.


----------



## m jamieson

That's settin-em straight!


----------



## Ductapeforever

Worse then my sister's kids at the state fair! Can we have money for some candy? No. How about a soda? No. Well, what can we have? Not a damn thing, shut up or we're going home!


----------



## teslabe

Ductapeforever said:


> Worse then my sister's kids at the state fair! Can we have money for some candy? No. How about a soda? No. Well, what can we have? Not a damn thing, shut up or we're going home!


Sometimes people focus on the most pointless issues and just beat them into the ground. I'm so happy with this kit coming out, so much so that I have three on order...... Anything the kit does not have that I would like to see, I will add myself. I think that's half the fun and this kit looks like it was designed with that in mind......:thumbsup: I already see so many ways I will be tricking this fantastic ship out...... Now I just need to wait til December.


----------



## Gemini1999

I have a relatively simple question...

What's a "boss" (as referenced in a few recent posts)?

Bryan


----------



## Moebius

Gemini1999 said:


> I have a relatively simple question...
> 
> What's a "boss" (as referenced in a few recent posts)?
> 
> Bryan


I'm Dave's boss


----------



## gareee

Perfect setup and delivery.. LOL!


----------



## Gemini1999

Moebius said:


> I'm Dave's boss


*sigh* 

Never mind....


----------



## Ductapeforever

:tongue:Rim Shot Frank!


----------



## teslabe

Gemini1999 said:


> I have a relatively simple question...
> 
> What's a "boss" (as referenced in a few recent posts)?
> 
> Bryan


I think this is what they are talking about, like on the PL's J-2


----------



## Ductapeforever

Sure, spoil the fun of the joke.


----------



## teslabe

Ductapeforever said:


> Sure, spoil the fun of the joke.


Sorry.....:drunk: It the "Engineer", in me.....

P.S. It was a great comeback......:thumbsup:


----------



## Dave Metzner

First; I must point out that the PL J-2 isn't exactly perfect....(In case nobody else noticed)
I do not believe the feature shown in the box above is part of the four footer.....
Thus it's not present on the new Moebius kit....

Dave


----------



## teslabe

Dave Metzner said:


> First; I must point out that the PL J-2 isn't exactly perfect....(In case nobody else noticed)
> I do not believe the feature shown in the box above is part of the four footer.....
> Thus it's not present on the new Moebius kit....
> 
> Dave


Happy to hear that....


----------



## Fernando Mureb

Well, this is a J2 general discussion thread, right?

So, I have some more* important* questions (besides the visible waistline of the J2 mock up) that are looooong waiting for answers.

1) Since the J2 mock up is said as being the most expensive filming set to the date it was built; 
2) The concern of the engineers to give a meaning, a "real" purpose to every single prop in the ship (even those open/close button everywhere); and 
3) The careful and detailed work made by the crew that built the set;

Why on earth (priplanus?) they never mind to put in some of the innumerable plots some scenes showing:

a) the cover panels of both radar scanner of the flight control console opening and closing?
b) the pilot's seat being released from its locked position in the flight control console?
c) the "passage doors" of the ladder on the ceiling, between the decks and on the lower deck (leading to wherever) being opened/closed by someone?
d) Judy in the bathroom?
e) the access to the fusion core engine on the floor (LD) being used to... well.. making some repair?
f) the corridor between the lab and the galley being used as the logical, natural access to the starboard landing leg?

I remember to have seen a couple of times they using buttons to open/close beds, wardrobe doors, and the auxiliary control window shields, but that's it.

I can't sleep thinking about those problems.


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## toyroy

Dave Metzner said:


> ...So Roy, You didn't like my answer above and you had to come down here to complain about it.
> No the sofit and the interior don't even touch the upper hull, they do not brace anything they simply sit on top of the landing gear wells in the lower hull and the whole thing is covered by the upper hull...


Dave, are you referring to this:


Steve H said:


> ...it looks like the design is that the sofit and the interior as a whole acts as the bracing for the upper hull part...


I'm NOT Steve H. I do NOT post _anywhere_ under more than one name.


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## solex227

are we still on track for a Nov release or are we looking at Dec? either way can t wait for this one to hit my door step!!


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## Ductapeforever

Hey guys, Anyone out there have the ability to do High Res Screencaps from Lost in Space DVD's. If so ,a diligent soul could take on the project of doing so and posting to their Flicker accounts as many detail photos of the J-2 interior from the 3rd season set as possible in preperation of the release of the Moebius kit. This could become a valuable resource of reference material not only for detail but color references. Talk amoungst yourselves!


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## Dar

Good idea. There has to be someone here who can do hi-res pics.


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## Steve H

toyroy said:


> Dave, are you referring to this:
> 
> I'm NOT Steve H. I do NOT post _anywhere_ under more than one name.


It's true, he's he and I'm me. I dislike the use of 'sockpuppets' and have no respect for those that use them.

And I apologize for the misunderstanding. It seemed logical to me that if the upper hull is thin and there's no bracing molded inside, that the main structural integrity would be taken up by the hull resting on the sofit and the backs of the walls. I wasn't being critical, I was trying to get the picture of the practical aspects of the engineering straight.


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## Dave Metzner

Down to one thread for now........


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## Fernando Mureb

OK. Two sugestions to upgrading the kit for you modelers.


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## Ductapeforever

Ductapeforever said:


> Hey guys, Anyone out there have the ability to do High Res Screencaps from Lost in Space DVD's. If so ,a diligent soul could take on the project of doing so and posting to their Flicker accounts as many detail photos of the J-2 interior from the 3rd season set as possible in preperation of the release of the Moebius kit. This could become a valuable resource of reference material not only for detail but color references. Talk amoungst yourselves!




....anyone want to step forward on this?


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## Dar

Fernando Mureb said:


> OK. Two sugestions to upgrading the kit for you modelers.




Yeah the overhead light by the inner hatch is one I thought would be cool even for the PL J2. :thumbsup:The porthole depth detail is another good one.


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## Steve H

Fernando Mureb said:


> OK. Two sugestions to upgrading the kit for you modelers.


(by the way, a belated nice job on your cardboard interior project!)

OK, so, what are we seeing that needs the upgrade? I see maybe a closed cover for the 'observation porthole' and....what at the airlock?

What *I* see is the need for some vinyl paint masks for that interior, like along the support braces!

and lots and lots of tan paint...


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## Fernando Mureb

Why this thread was abandoned?
Wanna improve your moebius J2?
A sugestion attached.


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## Fernando Mureb

Talking about painting would be a nice theme for discussion here. Everybody would be capable to take at least 3 stills from the same interior wall with diferent tonalities.


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## Ductapeforever

Colors are going to be open to interpretation, my advice ; Lost in Space DVD's season 3,and a Large Screen Digital TV w/color correction. Let your eyes be your guide. Bear in mind a scene can appear many different ways, effected by type of lighting used (spectrum) filter gels used (color) reflection from other surrounding surfaces. Again paint to your OWN satisfaction. Any color suggestions are just that ,...suggestions.


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## Fernando Mureb

On my PL J2 I used variations of the Bob Perovich color scheme. It's a good reference to start from.


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## Ductapeforever

I have that list thanks to bert modelmaker on this site, a very good baseline. I have been assured colors are accurate as possible for a 40 year old plus tv show and the factors I mentioned above. Other factors involved the type of film used in the cameras and the developing process used to develope them.


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## teslabe

Ductapeforever said:


> ....anyone want to step forward on this?


How is this??? It's the best you're going to get from the DVD's, they are in the
"NTFS" format, 525lines of analog video, so the best you will get is about 640x480. This image has been enlarged to 720x480, sharped and levels adjusted, pulled from the "VOB" file on the disk right into Adobe's Premiere Pro video editor. The only way to get a High Res. frame is if someone has the 35mm or 16mm film of the show but that would be a real pain...


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## Ductapeforever

OMG !!!!!!!!!!!! That's IT! Now if someone can comb through the best 3rd season episodes showing interiors, and posting images of the same. Remember focus on details. It might be advantagious to have a dedicated thread for these. On behalf of a grateful Nation I salute you sir!


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## teslabe

Ductapeforever said:


> OMG !!!!!!!!!!!! That's IT! Now if someone can comb through the best 3rd season episodes showing interiors, and posting images of the same. Remember focus on details. It might be advantagious to have a dedicated thread for these. On behalf of a grateful Nation I salute you sir!


Let me know the episodes and I'll post them in my photos folder, as long as it's volume is not part of that for the photos posted in threads. I'm almost at capacity for attachments.....


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## Ductapeforever

I'll go through them tonight. I don't think they count against your account in the folder, only in threads.


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## teslabe

Ductapeforever said:


> I'll go through them tonight. I don't think they count against your account in the folder, only in threads.


That would be great....:thumbsup:


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## Ductapeforever

Briefly concidered adding roof beams w/light sheet strips. Unsure till I see the kit.


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## toyroy

Ductapeforever said:


> Briefly concidered adding roof beams w/light sheet strips...


The pulsing light beams would be a way cool effect!


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## harrier1961

*New J2 Thread*

But why would anybody be silly and build it w/o the legs? 

Dave/Frank, I think you're doing an awesome job and the shots look awesome. As a builder of MANY years, I agree that 80% of not more will build the model out of the box.

Great job! Can't wait to see what is next up.

Andy


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## Dave Metzner

Ok guys,
All the recent discussion of the specifics of the Moebius Jupiter 2 kit and it's features. All the helpful suggestions on how the model should be changed or improved, all the questions regarding specific details have been moved to the Jupiter 2 test shot thread which remains closed. If you want to read about the features of the Model and see the discussions revolving around the test shot go read that thread.
If you wish to engage in general discussions regarding Jupiter 2 this thread will remain open for that purpose.

Once more the Moebius Jupiter 2 kit will be available for every one to work on soon enough, more speculation regarding its features is not useful and further suggestions for it's improvement are not constructive. Such posts to this thread in the future may very well vanish into the ozone.

Thank you for your consideration.

Dave


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## Ductapeforever

Anyone here have in their collection, the Alpha Control Reference Manual by William Anchors? If so do you also have the ability to scan pages into digital images? Send me a PM if so. Thank's in advance.


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## starseeker

Fernando Mureb said:


> I plan to built my kit in landing position and, after having everything done, scratch built a detailed lower deck in the same scale (with subceiling and lighting), below the "land" of a crash site diorama (no lower hull or any concern about coerency etc, etc, etc, because the LD will be burried).
> 
> I'll do that even it lasts 10 years. Unless Moebius save me.


Fernando, I recently came across these pictures and they reminded me of your dream project. Have you seen these? (The modeler's name is very familiar. I wonder if he's the man who made the cutaway Seaview that re-kindled my interest in SF modeling all those years ago.) 
http://www.culttvman2.com/dnn/Model...pter2/tabid/683/AlbumID/1544-396/Default.aspx


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## woof359




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## toyroy

Fernando Mureb said:


> I plan to...scratch built a detailed lower deck in the same scale (with subceiling and lighting), below the "land" of a crash site diorama...





starseeker said:


> Fernando, I recently came across these pictures and they reminded me of your dream project...


Also, make sure you see Robert Hargrave's build, as he even included the landing gear wells into the lower level.


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## g_xii

Y3a said:


> I hope to use Henry's Decals if he produces any. I'll paint mine a 50-50 Testors "Steel" and "Bright Silver". This gives a less than bright silver finish thats a little flat. Using very bright light it will look bright silver. Did I mention that these models are painted so the look best on video or photos? I will be using some wire from a small motors armiture to support my Moebius J2, and provide power.


Henry is working on them right this minute!

--Henry


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## woof359

So, was the Gemini white or grey?


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## g_xii

woof359 said:


> So, was the Gemini white or grey?


I always thought it was a light silver with a LOT of light shining on it. Who really knows, tho...

--Henry


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## Steve H

I was thinking of painting mine dull silver then mist some gray over it, as a 'blending' of the filming model paint and the 'visual signature' as we think of it. Somehow that kinda fits with the design philosophy of the kit. 

The Gemini XII MAY have been silver, because I recall those shots really 'blowing out' because they were so bright. It may have been poor quality syndication prints duped too many times and worn down however.

When you think Lost in Space, you think silver, it's just natural. It might be interesting to see what others come up with, like maybe light gray, almost white with just a hint of green in it, or a very very pale blue. I expect someone will go nuts with different shades of silver, maybe something akin to the look of a B-36 with the different shades between aluminum pressure areas and magnesium spaces.

Hey, if we have people to this day thinking the original Star Trek Enterprise should be duck's egg blue because by god that's what they saw on their TV, well, it's all fair game,huh?


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## woof359

maybe the TOS Enterprise was suppose to be white and the only way to get it to come out white was to paint it light grey.......george Reeves costume or the LOne Ranger in B & W


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## Fernando Mureb

starseeker said:


> Fernando, I recently came across these pictures and they reminded me of your dream project. Have you seen these?





toyroy said:


> Also, make sure you see Robert Hargrave's build, as he even included the landing gear wells into the lower level.


Thanks starseeker and toyroy. I hadn't seen yet the outstanding job of Ted Koch. But 2 years ago, when I was making research to built my PL J2, I catched almost everything I saw at culttvman site, among others internet places, besides books and manuals I bought at ebay. 

Yes, Robert Hargrave is one of my primary source of information. I collect 21 sources, including you starseeker.:thumbsup:


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## Jim C

I/ve out of the loop for awhile. What is up with all the talk about the moebi J2's landing gear?


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## Steve H

Jim C said:


> I/ve out of the loop for awhile. What is up with all the talk about the moebi J2's landing gear?


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHa....

sorry. it's been a roller coaster.

in summery:

It was discovered that during the design phase discussion was held by TPTB, and it was decided that the best look for the kit would be to use the landing gear as depicted by the 'full size' set piece and not as they appear on the 4 foot Hero filming model.

(there are some differences in the look caused by the practical realities of the needs of each in their respective environments)

There was some hurmphing over this and tempers rose. 

Later, there was discussion over making the landing gear on the upcoming Moebius kit retractable, and digression over how practical it actually is, and could it be done with the lovely, detailed interior in place, and some intend to leave out the interior and attempt to re-create the actual 4 foot Hero filming model, and it just went on and on, and there was harumphing and tempers rose.

Another comment that crept up a couple of times was could the landing gear be removed and replaced with closed gear covers, and back at will, and the answer is no, it's not designed for that, pick a look and build it, but again there was harumphing and tempers rose.

So, it seems we've found the big 'hot button' on this kit in this forum. YEARS from now someone will be able to say 'Hey, Moebius Jupiter 2 landing gear!' and there will be many groans and rolling of eyes and people jumping in with 'countdown to thread closing!!' comments.


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## m jamieson

Most of the negativity was about people asking if it could be changed in the 11th hour before the kit came out..it of course can not! The gear will be fine as is for some, and there will be aftermarket kits to change it, for others. Once you have your kit, it's yours to modify and scratch build whatever...just don't bring up changes that you "think" they should do cause that won't be happening and it will be "Bye-Bye thread!"


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## Dar

m jamieson said:


> Most of the negativity was about people asking if it could be changed in the 11th hour before the kit came out..it of course can not! The gear will be fine as is for some, and there will be aftermarket kits to change it, for others. Once you have your kit, it's yours to modify and scratch build whatever...just don't bring up changes that you "think" they should do cause that won't be happening and it will be "Bye-Bye thread!"




:lol::lol:Exactly. There was one poster a few days ago asking about changes and needless to say it didnt go well. To be fair he was kinda new, but he got a little demanding.


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## j2man

Wars have started over things as silly. Opinions are like rear ends. We all have em, and none are the exactly the same. Love that upcoming Jupiter 2 though. There are other forums available to discuss the issues without fear of being shut down, edited, or insulted. Nuff Said.


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## Steve H

m jamieson said:


> Most of the negativity was about people asking if it could be changed in the 11th hour before the kit came out..it of course can not! The gear will be fine as is for some, and there will be aftermarket kits to change it, for others. Once you have your kit, it's yours to modify and scratch build whatever...just don't bring up changes that you "think" they should do cause that won't be happening and it will be "Bye-Bye thread!"


Well, exactly. And folks, naturally, come to something like this with the baggage of their own views, ideas, pre-conceptions and all that. Not to mention all the mis-information (fan speculation, various 'blueprints' and 'technical manuals' and the like) mixed with bits of fact from the fan community over the past umpty-some years.

Thing is, I think the discussion is valuable. There really HASN'T been a place that gets all this information and discussion, combined with the input of the actual company creating the kit in real time. It's...intoxicated at times, to be honest.

And it IS based on pre-conceptions. The people complaining that the kit doesn't have the landing legs from the 4 foot Hero filming model haven't said 'boo' about the spinny scanner thingie in the upper dome, which is clearly NOT the folded disc from the effects model and thus could be considered a 'speculation' item. (and note, I think it's very cool and solid research went into the creation of the part, it looks right to me). So why is that? I dunno. Just some are obsessed with some parts of the ship I guess. Or they feared the Hammer of Mod. 


I've said it before here and other places. We are our own worst enemies. 

But so what! We've got the kit of kits on the way! I'm pretty excited. It's funny, I recall the excitement when the Polar Lights kit was coming out but man, it's NOTHING like this. I think it's BECAUSE of the interaction with the company, the openess. I was going to say the frankness but that would sound like kissing up to Frank


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## falcondesigns

I'm just here for the morons,oh...... I mean bonbons.


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## Dave Metzner

Jim,
go to the top of the page and read the J-2 test shot thread that ought to answer your question....and more!
Alex,
be nice!

Dave


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## Jim C

Thanks to all. It' been along weekend and i've enjoyed reading ALL of your posts and have gotton a lot of info. Can't wait for the thing to come out. I'm going for the 4' hero myself.. Always loved seeing the landing gear pads slide away and the gear come down , and vis versa. Y3a has come up with something I really like. 
Just had a thought: what about taking some of the best attributs of all the J2's and make one that is uniqe....HUUUMMMM. Nice. A little Gemini 12, a little Hero........, What about a more realistic interior, you know, something with corridors instead of a massive open top deck. Just the pilot/engineer in me...I know : BLASPHEMY I Know, just a thought.

Thanks
jim


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## Dar

Jim C said:


> Thanks to all. It' been along weekend and i've enjoyed reading ALL of your posts and have gotton a lot of info. Can't wait for the thing to come out. I'm going for the 4' hero myself.. Always loved seeing the landing gear pads slide away and the gear come down , and vis versa. Y3a has come up with something I really like.
> Just had a thought: what about taking some of the best attributs of all the J2's and make one that is uniqe....HUUUMMMM. Nice. A little Gemini 12, a little Hero........, What about a more realistic interior, you know, something with corridors instead of a massive open top deck. Just the pilot/engineer in me...I know : BLASPHEMY I Know, just a thought.
> 
> Thanks
> jim



I had always thought it would be cool to see a concept model of the J2 one day. The entire ship could be rescaled with small changes to the exterior and interior it could represent a proper believable two level ship as it should have been on the show. All the asthetic design details of the interior and exterior would be intact. The cockpit controls would probably be the one component that would need the most redesign when concerning scale.


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## JAT

Jim C said:


> Thanks to all. It' been along weekend and i've enjoyed reading ALL of your posts and have gotton a lot of info. Can't wait for the thing to come out. I'm going for the 4' hero myself.. Always loved seeing the landing gear pads slide away and the gear come down , and vis versa. Y3a has come up with something I really like.
> Just had a thought: what about taking some of the best attributs of all the J2's and make one that is uniqe....HUUUMMMM. Nice. A little Gemini 12, a little Hero........, What about a more realistic interior, you know, something with corridors instead of a massive open top deck. Just the pilot/engineer in me...I know : BLASPHEMY I Know, just a thought.
> 
> Thanks
> jim


Wow, Jim. Very much in line with where I was planning to take the Jupiter. Actually, was planning to do something of an early prototype Gemini craft, same scale, but laid out for a smaller crew (2), and retro designing the interior (panels, controls,astrogator etc), and try to have it make sense in a non IA way. And, yes, blasphemous. But from a design standpoint, intriguing and a HUGE challenge. May be a lot of fun, may shoot myself before its done. No real idea what I'm getting myself into. Jeff


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## Y3a

Btw - The Gear Screen Cap Is From "the Derelict" And Shows The 'ram' Is More Towards The Fusion Core, And The "a" Frame Is In Front, Which Has A Pulley Wheel At The Top.


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## Y3a

Here's more stuff:
pad doors just opening


Seen from inside


Gear wells have different left and right sides


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## woof359

john going down some stairs in Junkyard.


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## JAT

Y3a said:


> Here's more stuff:
> pad doors just opening
> 
> 
> Seen from inside
> 
> 
> Gear wells have different left and right sides


All those great pics, both of the Jupiter and of your many wonderful works, and all I could come away with was "wow, nice shot of Dawn Wells". Sheesh


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## Jim C

I know it is a little ambishes, but I have thought about this for a long time. What would a spaceship with all the beauty and gracefullness that the J2 has, really look like inside. Nice modern cockpit, ( i'm a pilot so I know a little about what this should look like ), and what would be really needed for a long range flight or scout type mission. Crazy I know. Completely not storyline lost in space but fun to think about! 
I've always liked the big windows from the Gemini and the large core but not sure what it would look like with gear. Need to make some drawings. I don't what to mess up the look of the ship. Experiment, experiment, experiment!

Also, I'm new to this blog and don't want to offend anyone, so I hope this is where I'm suposed to write and get info. I've conversed with Y3a a couple of years ago, and that guy is an engineer!! Love his work. Then I found the rest of you guys! I want to see more of all of your work because you guys give me all these great IDEAS. Thanks 

Jim
A300-600 Driver


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## Fernando Mureb

Dar said:


> I had always thought it would be cool to see a concept model of the J2 one day. The entire ship could be rescaled with small changes to the exterior and interior it could represent a proper believable two level ship as it should have been on the show. All the asthetic design details of the interior and exterior would be intact. The cockpit controls would probably be the one component that would need the most redesign when concerning scale.


Dar, you can have many examples from culttvman, desktopstarships.com, LISA, J2 Techinical Site, Pendercrafts, and others. If you wanna get samples, just give me your e-mail and I'll send them to you.


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## Steve H

couple of observations that pop into mind.

The asymmetrical look of the landing gear bays is most likely due to filming considerations. It was planned to be shot from a specific angle and the VISIBLE detail was meant to emulate the full size set. The 3/4 front shot keeps the main viewport in sight to give direction. there MAY well be a mechanical reason as well, if those early gear drop shots were done with a model mounted on a pole instead of hanging. I can see it easily, you've got the top off, the camera is running, and a grip reaches in and YANKS something to drop the gear. Note I am NOT saying that is what happened, but it's one way they MAY have done it for a specific shot.

Also I'm starting to wonder if the fins on fusion core were mostly to help separate and focus the rotating lights, to create that 'pulse' more intensely.

And is there any chance that this look, the light bleed thru the fins, this creates the illusion of there being a wider fusion core on some of the filming models? I'm just thinking about the wider lenses used and what blurring and distortion that it may cause. I dunno.


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## woof359

I always been bummed that Bob K never came to any of the conventions, but I akso jknow he wood have been over whelmed with the questions of why did you do it this way and not that way.


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## Zaku II

I cannot wait for this kit to come out. It looks simply AWESOME!!!


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## toyroy

woof359 said:


> I always been bummed that Bob K never came to any of the conventions, but I akso jknow he wood have been over whelmed with the questions of why did you do it this way and not that way.


A well-prepared LiS historian should work a deal to record some interviews with him, and publish the transcripts.


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## g_xii

toyroy said:


> A well-prepared LiS historian should work a deal to record some interviews with him, and publish the transcripts.


That's an interesting thought... but I wonder if our "resident historian" has already done this in the past? I guess we'll have to ask him...

RON! How about it -- did you ever interview Bob K? 

--Henry


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## Ron Gross

g_xii said:


> That's an interesting thought... but I wonder if our "resident historian" has already done this in the past? I guess we'll have to ask him...
> 
> RON! How about it -- did you ever interview Bob K?
> 
> --Henry


Hey Henry,
No, I never did. I almost had an opportunity to interview William Creber around the time of the PL J2 release, but that never came off either. It was arranged by long time friend and Starlog contributor Mike Clark, but Mr. Creber had another commitment when the time came, and we never reconnected. Creber was responsible for the ship's exterior design, while Kinoshita did most of the interior work, as well as the Robot.

These disappointments, however, were more than made up for when I was able to do an interview with another industry icon last Spring (non LIS-related). This one was arranged by Frank, and we are going to have to wait a little longer, until he is able to get the Club House up and running, before we see it.

BTW Henry, still interested in that project we talked about. Let me know...
Ron G.


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## Fernando Mureb

Another sugestion to those meticulous modelers that wanna improve their moebius J2.


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## woof359

were there any Starlog interviews with Bill K and Bob K ?


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