# 1974 5 horse Brggs and Stratton won't start.



## Sir Thomas (Dec 7, 2013)

I was given this Till Smith Tiller with a Brigg and Stratton motor on it. This is a 130200 series motor. I was told if I could get it started I could keep it. That was over 4 years ago. I got it started.
Last summer I decided to do a complete rebuild, cutting my own gaskets, lapping the valves and stripping and repainting. It started up and ran good and I used it to till my garden. I notice once in a while it would die. After checking I notice that the kill switch wire had a break in the insulation and was contacting periodically but summer was over, I was out of gas and decided to park it.
The other day, I tried starting it and it would not start.

1. Checked the oil.

2. I had put fresh gas in.

3. Put gas in the spark plug hole and in the carburetor throat to rule out fuel issues. (rebuilt the carburetor two years ago). Nothing

4. Check compression. 30 psi. This has a pressure release.

4. Removed the belts. Nothing

5. Disconnect the kill switch wire. Nothing

6. Checked the coil for resistance. .5 ohms (5 @ X1K)

7. Checked the ignition point gap. .025. Contacts solid when points close.

8. Check for spark with two different testers. No spark

9. Tried a different spark plug. Really mute since there is no spark

10. Check armature gap. Perfect

11. Magnet on Flywheel pulls on screwdriver a little over 1 1/2" away.

Possible Condenser is bad but that wouldn't prevent it from firing would it?

Possible bad Magneto if I'm getting a .5 ohm reading?

Possible bad Spark Plug wire? I put black cord of tester in spark plug boot. .5 ohms


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## 30yearTech (Sep 14, 2006)

If the condenser is shorted it will cause it not to spark. I would file the contact points to make sure they are making good electrical contact and then set the gap to .020" not .025" and see if you can get spark.


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## Sir Thomas (Dec 7, 2013)

30yearTech said:


> If the condenser is shorted it will cause it not to spark. I would file the contact points to make sure they are making good electrical contact and then set the gap to .020" not .025" and see if you can get spark.


Got a new points and condenser kit and installed it. Still no spark or fire. I even removed the Kill Switch wire so I'm assuming it is the coil. I purchased it new October 5, 2015 and paid $22.95 for it. It should not have gone bad in less than two years. Is there any way to test it other than the spark test? I have an analogue multimeter.
I've never had one before with three wires and I've worked on a few 2 and 4 cycle engines.

http://i.ebayimg.com/images/i/270760121969-0-0/s-l140.jpg


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## 30yearTech (Sep 14, 2006)

The older Briggs coils had the primary spark plug lead wire, a ground wire, and the point's condenser lead wire. The kill switch wire would come from the condenser and run to the kill switch. Make sure the lead to the points is not getting grounded, either at the connection to the points, or against the cover, or pinched by the cover. Check the ground to the coil and make sure it's getting a good ground. You can update to a magnetron coil and eliminate the points if you need to replace it. They can be tested, there should be info in the service manual. If you don't have a SM, let me know and I will go into my archive and find one.


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## Sir Thomas (Dec 7, 2013)

30yearTech said:


> The older Briggs coils had the primary spark plug lead wire, a ground wire, and the point's condenser lead wire. The kill switch wire would come from the condenser and run to the kill switch. Make sure the lead to the points is not getting grounded, either at the connection to the points, or against the cover, or pinched by the cover. Check the ground to the coil and make sure it's getting a good ground. You can update to a magnetron coil and eliminate the points if you need to replace it. They can be tested, there should be info in the service manual. If you don't have a SM, let me know and I will go into my archive and find one.


I haven't located one on this machine (got parts and owners) and I purchased the coil on ebay and got no materials. It ran after the rebuild but not after I found the short in the kill switch wire and replaced it. How hard is it to short and kill a coil.


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## 30yearTech (Sep 14, 2006)

Sir Thomas said:


> How hard is it to short and kill a coil.


Hard, coils are very durable as all they are a a coil of wire.


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## usmcgrunt (Sep 16, 2007)

Hello Sir Thomas. Here is a link to the Briggs service manual. Although not related to the no spark condition, 30psi compression is on the very low side. I would expect around 50psi or greater and a leak down test may show a sticking valve.


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## Sir Thomas (Dec 7, 2013)

usmcgrunt said:


> Hello Sir Thomas. Here is a link to the Briggs service manual. Although not related to the no spark condition, 30psi compression is on the very low side. I would expect around 50psi or greater and a leak down test may show a sticking valve.


Thanks usmcgrunt. I don't have that manual. Looks like a general manual to cover most all of Briggs engines which would be handy since I have a few coming over possibly this week. As always I want to say thank you for serving our country. All servicemen and women are dear to my heart.
I have rebuilt this 13020 5 horse from the ground up. Lapped the valve and ground the stem to account for the lapping to spec. There is a possibility that the valve springs are weak since this machine was made in 1974 but I had it running prior to the kill switch wire grounding out. I had assumed that the since this machine has a compression release, I wouldn't get the full reading. I have no way of doing a leak down since I don't have the equipment and no money yet to get one though I need one. 
I'm going to set the Tiller motor aside till I get these others worked on. I'm told the priority is a portable generator with a Kholer engine since it's needed at the church.


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## Sir Thomas (Dec 7, 2013)

Another quick couple of question. If the engine with condenser and points originally had a two legged coil, can you put a 3 legged coil on? Does that have to do with the type of magnet on the flywheel? By the way, the magnet pulls on a screwdriver when it's about 1 1/2" away. The flywheel only had one magnet on it.
The other is checking the condenser with an analog multimeter, supposedly, with the condenser detached, I set the meter to Ohm continuity. Then I put one lead on the condenser post and the other on the body of the condenser. The needle should jump then go back to infinity. The needle doesn't move. I checked the meter by touching the two leads and it goes all the way to 0.


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## Sir Thomas (Dec 7, 2013)

Can the use of the three legged coil. Won't fit. The holes are too high.


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## dawgpile (Apr 28, 2008)

Sir Thomas, I know your thread is a few weeks old, but I wondered if you had a chance to resolve your problem? If not, I'll make a few comments.

As 30yr indicated, coils are pretty robust and don't fail often. Since your problem is ignition related AND since this is an older model using points, have you verified you don't have any flywheel key issues? I understand you've probably had the flywheel on and off multiple times given you've replaced the points and condenser. Keep in mind that on engines NOT utilizing points, you'll still get a spark when the flywheel magnets pass the coil assembly regardless of flywheel position on the crankshaft. However, engines with points rely on BOTH the flywheel magnets passing the coil AND the points operating at just the right time in order to generate the spark. IOW, you don't need a completely sheared key to have a problem. A perfect key in a sloppy keyway can allow enough rotation of the flywheel to hose up the timing.

I had an old Briggs model 8 that had developed a 'sloppy' keyway in the flywheel resulting in a timing problem. As a result, it became extremely difficult to start because the timing was off, ever so small an amount(less than a couple degrees). I fixed it by cutting a new keyway on both the crank and the flywheel on the opposite side and it would start on the first or second pull! 

Something else to check... Let us know what you find!


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## Sir Thomas (Dec 7, 2013)

I baked the coil at 200 degrees for about two hours then coated it with polyurethane. I also realize I had a bad plug and wrong type on it. I got it started but it would only run at full throttle. If I idle it down or put a load on it would die like it ran out of gas. 
The governor didn't feel right. I pulled the back off and noticed the governor gear got bent a little when I put the cover on after the rebuild. 
I got a complete carb rebuild kit. Tried it again, wouldn't start. Found that two wire had come loose. I'll try again tomorrow.


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## Sir Thomas (Dec 7, 2013)

Got the thing running good now. Tilled the garden with it.


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