# Release 4 Due in Next Month..



## Steve F (Apr 30, 2007)

Does anyone know if the packaging will be 2 full sets of 6 this time around or will there be certain cars left out as in Release 3..
I don't mind not getting all the window variation in the cases but would like to at least see full sets..

Will take preoders now for *sealed* 12 car cases..125.00 shipped anywhere in the US..

Will be gone for the weekend..Will be back on Monday..
Paypal Only..
Send me your orders with a Pivate Message or email them to me at *[email protected]* & I will Send out an invoice through paypal..

Again many thanks for all the support for the Hobby..Its all about the Kids..

Here'e a few thing out on the bay
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=110156337882&ssPageName=
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=110156339281&ssPageName=
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=110156629515&ssPageName=
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=110156736229&ssPageName=
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=110158216947&ssPageName=


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## Steve F (Apr 30, 2007)

Ok Chris 
Got you down for a case of Tjets..
Always an easy deal..
Thanks again
Steve


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

what is in release 4, more of the same?


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## cagee (Apr 20, 2007)

Steve F said:


> Ok Chris
> Got you down for a case of Tjets..
> Always an easy deal..
> Thanks again
> Steve


Thanks Steve.


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## 22tall (Jul 28, 2002)

Montoya1 said:


> what is in release 4, more of the same?


Jeff has them listed on his website www.motorcitytoyz.com 

Did you ever do a finished extended length F1 car? I only remember a mockup.


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

22tall said:


> Jeff has them listed on his website www.motorcitytoyz.com
> 
> Did you ever do a finished extended length F1 car? I only remember a mockup.


That got no further, Matt got snowed under with work and life in general. So my dream of an accurate wheelbase HO chassis with adjustable traction magnets and guide device is still exactly that.

I have been looking at this Rapid prototyping technology and made lots of useful contacts. If or when the material used ever gets flexible enough and durable enough to make chassis out of expect me to finally get there!


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## fordcowboy (Dec 27, 1999)

I dont see release 4 on his site. How about putting them up here so we all can see what is coming . fcb thanks alot.


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## dlw (Aug 17, 1999)

It's there, FordCowboy..........But there are no pics. Just lists what colors the cars are.


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## motorcitytoyz (Oct 11, 2002)

*Release 4 Thunderjet Ultra-G and Xtraction Flamethrowers Images*

I just received images of R4 from AW - They only released images of 6 different cars from each release which include Super G Thunderjets and Flamethrowers XTractions.



















They are due in Sept 15th....just after AutoFest. I offered to pay Air Freight to have a master case of each for AutoFest for display or give-away but was told no as not special treatment is given to one vendor. I totally understand but would be a great place to show off what is coming out and such. I also told them to offer air freight to all the vendors and then there would not be any problem. With the air frieght added to the cost of the vehicle, I would not mak any money on them anyway but still would have been nice to have them for display --- great marketing tool to get people to the table....LOL

Have a great weekend and be sure to check me out at Autofest as I will have some cool hats, t-shirts and a very special item as special a giveaways with purchases of $25, $50 and $100....All Hobby Talk members get 10% discount at show or on order placed on my website too.


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## cagee (Apr 20, 2007)

OOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHH. Can't wait till the 15th gotta have em now.


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## noddaz (Aug 6, 1999)

*Nice Tjets...*



motorcitytoyz said:


> *snip*


I will have to spend money on some of these...
Scott


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## Mark Hosaflook (Jan 5, 2001)

Wow don't cut it...........but WOW!


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## Steve F (Apr 30, 2007)

Steve F said:


> Does anyone know if the packaging will be 2 full sets of 6 this time around or will there be certain cars left out as in Release 3..
> I don't mind not getting all the window variation in the cases but would like to at least see full sets..
> 
> Will take preoders now for *sealed* 12 car cases..125.00 shipped anywhere in the US..
> ...


First nobody ansered my original question on hoe AW will package these cases..Will there be both color sets in each box of 12 ?

Still have a few sealed cases left to presell..Again These will be sealed cases..I do not know how they will be packaged..
Thanks again
Steve


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## motorcitytoyz (Oct 11, 2002)

Steve F said:


> First nobody ansered my original question on hoe AW will package these cases..Will there be both color sets in each box of 12 ?
> 
> Still have a few sealed cases left to presell..Again These will be sealed cases..I do not know how they will be packaged..
> Thanks again
> Steve


Steve, 

ALL future releases will be standard 12 car case - RANDOMLY PACKED.
Some cases may have complete set inside and others will not. Just depends on how the factory decides to pack them.

I have always sold more factory sealed cases than singles but now it is going the other way. 

Hope this helps with your questions.

Jeff


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## micyou03 (Apr 8, 2003)

I could use a couple of those.


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## Steve F (Apr 30, 2007)

motorcitytoyz said:


> Steve,
> 
> ALL future releases will be standard 12 car case - RANDOMLY PACKED.
> Some cases may have complete set inside and others will not. Just depends on how the factory decides to pack them.
> ...


Hi Jeff
I was really hoping for the old way of packaging..Most of my Customers want full sets..This has been killing me..
Well Thanks for the input..
Steve


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## motorcitytoyz (Oct 11, 2002)

Steve,

I totally understand...I have have the same problem but most of my customers are understanding of the situation. No way toknow what your are getting until you open the case.


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

If I could ask a serious question. Why would you buy something and not know what you are going to get? That to me is simply insane.
It seems that if all of AWs vendors just told them to pack the cars in full sets of 12 or we ain't buying, they would either listen or fold. I feel for you guys, but if you continue to accept the situation, it isn't going to change.
Of course, even packing all of one type of car in a full case and selling that way to vendors would be better than random packing.
Do you buy anything else without knowing what it is? This, by the way, does not include getting married. LOL
As I said, it just seems insane.

Joe


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## Scafremon (Dec 11, 2006)

Grandcheapskate said:


> It seems that if all of AWs vendors just told them to pack the cars in full sets of 12 or we ain't buying, they would either listen or fold.


Here is how I see it, and maybe AW also looks at it this way.

A 'set' is 6 cars, not 12. 

A case is simply a box that contains 2 sets (unless Steve and Jeff are saying that they have opened a case and found 3 or more of a single car).

Cases are intended to be bought and opened for resale as individual cars. 

Collectors who buy in bulk cases are no longer collectors, but resellers who don't want to resell.


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## Scafremon (Dec 11, 2006)

And just to add to the above....

Isn't AW doing this silly thing where they are not advising what is a 'rare' car, until sometime later?.

What if the Blue Camaro (regardless of window color) is the 'rare' XT? How can we expect every case of (2) sets to include a Blue Camaro?


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

Scafremon said:


> Here is how I see it, and maybe AW also looks at it this way.
> A 'set' is 6 cars, not 12.
> A case is simply a box that contains 2 sets (unless Steve and Jeff are saying that they have opened a case and found 3 or more of a single car).
> Cases are intended to be bought and opened for resale as individual cars.


 I believe Steve and Jeff are saying that different cases contain different combinations of cars.
If the cases are not packed the same way, and you have to order by the case, you have almost no idea what you are ordering. You know they are either T-Jets or X-Tractions, but nothing else. No matter how you look at it, whether a six car set or 12 car set, case 1 may be packed different from case 2. I fail to see the logic or the advantage. And, quite frankly, why anyone would tolerate it.
With this type of packaging, I see the vendors getting stuck with lots of common cars they'll have to almost give away or sell for parts. And good customers they'll have to turn away. I don't think the vendor chain can sustain this much longer.

Joe


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## Scafremon (Dec 11, 2006)

I'm under the impression you get (2) of each model of car in a case. They might be same exact car (same body color, same window color), or they may be different.

If Jeff and Steve are saying they could open a case and have 12 Nomads, or 6 camaros and 6 nomads, then I agree that is a problem.

But as long as a case has (2) of each model, I don't see it as AW doing anything wrong. It might not bode well for the collector who wants to buy his collection in a single bulk purchase.


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## 22tall (Jul 28, 2002)

JL packaged 12 cars in a box. Six cars with 2 paint schemes. There is no reason that anyone can make up that explains the change. Both vendors and buyers think it is a bad idea. 

How many people used to get an inner or two and now only buy what they really want? That means less cars sold. Just who is Tom Lowe trying to help here?


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## cagee (Apr 20, 2007)

Grandcheapskate said:


> If I could ask a serious question. Why would you buy something and not know what you are going to get? That to me is simply insane.
> It seems that if all of AWs vendors just told them to pack the cars in full sets of 12 or we ain't buying, they would either listen or fold. I feel for you guys, but if you continue to accept the situation, it isn't going to change.
> Of course, even packing all of one type of car in a full case and selling that way to vendors would be better than random packing.
> Do you buy anything else without knowing what it is? This, by the way, does not include getting married. LOL
> ...


I think its a bad idea to package the cars randomly just like you said but if vendors like Jeff or Steve stop buying the cars to sell there would be someone right behind them saying I'll buy em if they won't. I really can't blame them for buying I mean they gotta make there livin somehow. I have decided to buy a sealed case from Steve or Jeff pick out the colors and what color windows I like and dump the rest on the bay. But then again I'm not real picky when it comes to the colors just love the new body styles. 

$.02


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## Scafremon (Dec 11, 2006)

-- "JL packaged 12 cars in a box. Six cars with 2 paint schemes. There is no reason that anyone can make up that explains the change."

So if a person bought (1) case of JL, he had a complete set. If that was the collector's goal (to get one complete set) he is done. 

With the AW way, the same collector either needs to buy individual cars to complete his set, or, get the discount that comes with buying a case, and see how he fares. Get a couple of dupes - buy or trade for the ones you need to complete the set. Sounds like fun to me. Or gamble again on a second case, and see if that case fills your needs. 

-- "How many people used to get an inner or two and now only buy what they really want? That means less cars sold. Just who is Tom Lowe trying to help here?"

What is an 'inner'? I'm guessing it is a case, but not sure. If it is a case, and people used to buy one or two because they what they really wanted was one or two complete sets, they can still do that, by purchasing what they really want via individual cars - one or two of each.


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

Scafremon said:


> -- "JL packaged 12 cars in a box. Six cars with 2 paint schemes. There is no reason that anyone can make up that explains the change."
> 
> So if a person bought (1) case of JL, he had a complete set. If that was the collector's goal (to get one complete set) he is done.
> 
> ...


Jeff, problem is that somewhere along the line, people began assuming the cases were for retail sale, not the cars inside of them.


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

22tall said:


> Just who is Tom Lowe trying to help here?


The real retail shops, who used to buy many master cases (thus a better chance of variety) at a shot before the 'net ho's started dumping the stuff.


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## Scafremon (Dec 11, 2006)

SwamperGene said:


> Jeff, problem is that somewhere along the line, people began assuming the cases were for retail sale, not the cars inside of them.


I thought about that Gene as I tossed this situation over in my mind. Being new to the hobby, I'm wasn't sure how long these wholesale cases have been the norm for 'retail' purchases, or even if they are the 'norm' today (although it seems to be from what I have read on this forum).

Having bought a case of XT's myself, here was my process.

I called every hobby shop within 50 miles of me to try and find one that sold these cars, so I could buy one to check it out. (Actually, I had already figured they must be fun, so my plan was to buy four). None had them. I PM'd Tom Lowe here to ask where I could buy them locally - no response. I went to the AW website, and called the distributors that were in my area - none distributed the product anymore.

Online, I found that I could receive a reduced cost per car by purchasing more cars. That makes sense to me. I received my case, and was surprised (but not upset) that I had duplicate colored cars. (They actually had different windows, but that wasn't important to me). The vendor swapped me the color cars I needed. If he had not, I would have been ok with that, and I would've posted here to see if anyone wanted to swap.

If the discounted case price was not available to me, I would have bought (4) individual cars from the last 2 releases, same cars but different colors, and been happy. But, I do look at the money, and realizing I may be back immediatly to purchase more, went for the R3 case (plus 2 of one car from release 2, so I would have a 4-car set to race).

I feel I may have supported something that you don't agree with, and while I am not trying to justify what I did, I am just explaining why I did what I did, and maybe why (some) others do the same thing. 

I do appreciate the experience, insight, and opinion that you have on not only how these cars are marketed today, but where the future of this scale may be going, like we are discussing in another thread.

And I apologize for taking a side track on the purpose of this thread.


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

Jeff I don't blame you, you came into the hobby while it was rampantly going on. You honestly see this as "normal" activity. I think that like me, you'd enjoy having those local shops support HO, but how can they when half their customers are buying elsewhere at near cost? What absolutely floors me is that no one dares to ask Racemasters, Wizzard, BSRT, Slottech, or any other HO manufacturer for cases of product, let alone tries to tell them how they should be packaging cases of product meant to be opened and sold by retailers. 

Ironically, you summed up my issue...if you read this from the bottom up, you see exactly what's been happening:



> I called every hobby shop within 50 miles of me to try and find one that sold these cars, so I could buy one to check it out. (Actually, I had already figured they must be fun, so my plan was to buy four). None had them. I PM'd Tom Lowe here to ask where I could buy them locally - no response. I went to the AW website, and called the distributors that were in my area - none distributed the product anymore.
> 
> Online, I found that I could receive a reduced cost per car by purchasing more cars. That makes sense to me. I received my case, and was surprised (but not upset) that I had duplicate colored cars. (They actually had different windows, but that wasn't important to me). The vendor swapped me the color cars I needed. If he had not, I would have been ok with that, and I would've posted here to see if anyone wanted to swap.
> 
> If the discounted case price was not available to me, I would have bought (4) individual cars from the last 2 releases, same cars but different colors, and been happy. But, I do look at the money, and realizing I may be back immediatly to purchase more, went for the R3 case (plus 2 of one car from release 2, so I would have a 4-car set to race).


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

SwamperGene said:


> What absolutely floors me is that no one dares to ask Racemasters, Wizzard, BSRT, Slottech, or any other HO manufacturer for cases of product, let alone tries to tell them how they should be packaging cases of product meant to be opened and sold by retailers.


Gene,
The point I am trying to make is that the cases shipped to the dealers (hobby stores included) are black boxes whose contents are unknown. Would you buy anything that way? I would not. I really would like an answer to that question from anyone - if you owned a hobby store, would you buy cases without knowing the contents?
Forget the end customer as having any say in the packaging method - I agree, they should not. Creating packaging where a 12 car case contained a complete set wasn't the greatest thing for dealers either, but did make it easy for them to ship out or sell full sets. If a dealer wanted to buy more of one model than another, it couldn't and still can't be done. And who does that help? Why you would not manufacture more of your fast sellers than slow sellers just doesn't make any sense to me.
That would be like me saying I made the same number of curves in each size, I will randomly package them in groups of 40 to send to dealers, and I will make the same number of each reguardless of demand. Pretty silly, huh?
I will grant you that Tyco took the same approach at times. There were times if you wanted a certain car, you had to buy a full case which contained maybe 10 other cars you didn't want. Hence, this is why some cars are more scarce than others. But, the contents of the case were clearly known - it was your decision as to whether or not to buy. It was a bad system, but better than this one. However, Tyco was a bigger company, theoretically not as close to it's cutomers and dealers as AW should be. And there was no internet, e-mail or hobby boards for Tyco to consult to see if there was a marketing problem. Tyco sold to distributors who sold to hobby stores. Since distributors probably sell by the case, they don't care as much about the internal contents. Tyco was two steps removed from the end seller and fairly insulated. 
If I order from Racemasters, I know what is in each case. If I don't like the way they package a mixed case, I don't buy it. What I don't get is a random selection of cars which I don't know about until I open each and every case.
If there is one dealer who likes random packaging and thinks it is good for their business and customers, please let us know.
Thanks...Joe


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

Joe I'll agree that random packaging to dealers is not the cure, but you have to go back to the idea's roots. It was a quick attempt to curb scalping. Their idea, I believe, was to make case purchases by the general public undesireable, figuring the quantity factor would make sure all the variations were hitting the shelves of the dealers puchasing master cases, truly I think it was a gamble they lost on. At this point, retail shops are leary of buying more than a handful of inners, so there goes that idea. 

AW really has no clue as to what it's customer base really is. All they see is product flying out the door as fast as it comes in, the problem arises after that, when it gets into the hands of what I'll very loosely call distributors. Today the bulk of their line has no real value to a retailer. You can make a great margin on BSRT products, Tomy products, ...any of the others I mentioned before. It's all in the distribution and how well it is controlled. You saw what happened to Steve F when he was underselling Dash products...I say good for Dan, he has a strict policy regarding selling his products on ebay and the 'net and he enforced it. If AW would do that, maybe they would have a chance on re-emerging in the retail market. If they don't, they can continue to watch sales drop as fast as retailers will be dropping their products.


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## hartracerman (Jan 9, 2005)

price control in a free market? That's what other manufacturers are doing, Uncle Sam too.


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## 22tall (Jul 28, 2002)

Scafremon said:


> -- "JL packaged 12 cars in a box. Six cars with 2 paint schemes. There is no reason that anyone can make up that explains the change."
> 
> So if a person bought (1) case of JL, he had a complete set. If that was the collector's goal (to get one complete set) he is done.
> 
> ...


An inner is a box of 12. Master cases had 4 inners.

I don't see anything fun about wasting dozens of hours searching the web and spending a bunch of cash on shipping for individual cars. I also don't feel I should basically set up a shop to trade and sell stuff I don't want.

Think of it this way, an inner of slots is the same as a loaf of bread. How would you like it if you could only buy by the slice? How many people would leave the ends?

I thought iwheels were supposed to be the cure to scalping. AW made that situation even worse with the colored windows and the figure it out yourself concept.


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## micyou03 (Apr 8, 2003)

Scafremon said:


> --
> -- "How many people used to get an inner or two and now only buy what they really want? That means less cars sold. Just who is Tom Lowe trying to help here?"
> QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## Steve F (Apr 30, 2007)

When I buy from my distributor with my resale # I can sell these things anywhere I want..My distributor has no right telling me where to sell..There is not enough Slotcar raceways around for my distributor to sell anything to.If it was not for guys like me distributors would have nobody to sell to....Where I live there are 2 raceways within 50 miles..Then you must start crossing bridges to find the next 2..The toll to cross into SI is 10.00 just for the one bridge & their are no raceways on SI..Next cross another bridge into Jersey for another 7.00 for the other 2 , Then take gas & time into consideration..
All the guys that are into this stuff are pushing 50 & up...This is a dieing hobby..Kids today don't want to play with race cars, all they want is vidio games & computers..Thats the reason toysrus & KB Toys dropped the line..There's no market there for them..Things were at there best before Tom pulled the whites on the distributors...Now I see the distributors starving..Let Tom look at the #'s he is selling since he pulled the whites , Then check the #'s before pulling them..The way it was before worked just fine..
Now the new thing with ramdom packaging, Very bad ..Who has the time to go through every box to look at window colors....All AW has done is hurt business for all..

(SwamperGene) This part is for you..Dan forces people to sell for the same price he sells direct to anyone that wants to buy from him..Is that right..Dan should be happy when he see's his stuff on the bay , because most of the time they sell for more than his suggested retail , So tell me what was wrong with that..Not everyone has ever heard of Dash & Hobbytalk to find these cars..So in reality he sells more cars because of the bay..Also I notice he has a few guys that he does let sell on the bay..Some can some can't , Thats bull in my book..))

Steve F


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

I have a coupla Q's.
Where are these cars cased up? 

Certainly the due care and attention required to pack a proper set would cost some time/$ somewhere in the process. How much could that be?


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

Bill Hall said:


> I have a coupla Q's.
> Where are these cars cased up?
> 
> Certainly the due care and attention required to pack a proper set would cost some time/$ somewhere in the process. How much could that be?


Bill,
I don't believe it is a question of economics - i.e. how much extra it costs to pack a standard way. I think it is AW's intent to pack the cases randomly and generate a "chase" aspect.
Does everyone agree?
As Gene mentioned, it was no doubt an attempt by AW to eliminate scalping. Why is there scalping? Because certain cars are hard to get and when someone gets one, either though luck or hard work (searching), it is going to sell for a high price because others either can't find it, or are willing to trade dollars for their time.
Want to eliminate scalping? Pack each car variation in it's own case of 12, or even 6. Allow resellers to buy only the cars they want by the case. Make your production numbers match the demand; if you underproduced a car, go back and make more - even if you only do the body. Now, there are no rare cars and henceforth, no scalping. There are no unwanted, common cars. AW makes money, resellers and hobby stores make money and consumers, both the "I buy only what I like" crowd and the collector are happy.
Is there anyone who does not get helped that way?
How AW runs it's business is completely in their hands. I can tell you that I have bought only 5 of their cars (at less that $10 each and before the infamous "Take it or leave it" post). If AW had marketed the cars correctly, AW would probably have had over $3,000 in business from me for the collection (based on my calculations in another thread). They will never get me back now that the collection is unobtainable. I have enough runners. 

Joe


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

I guess AWs fear with that method is being stuck with the cars nobody wants. The answer is simple, do more research and only produce cars people are really going to droll over. None of the Ho-hum cars that blight a release.


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

Montoya1 said:


> I guess AWs fear with that method is being stuck with the cars nobody wants. The answer is simple, do more research and only produce cars people are really going to droll over. None of the Ho-hum cars that blight a release.


 It would be a concern, but I don't think is it one that is unmanageable. The slow sellers will eventually sell, meanwhile you can go back and make more of the bodies for the popular cars and sell them as bodies only. Maybe you then generate a sale of the slow seller because someone wants the chassis for the popular body you just sold them.
But, dumping unwanted stock into the hands of resellers isn't the way to generate future orders.
Here's another thing I don't understand (I have a whole list of them). Do all manufacturers, going back to the days of Aurora, release new cars the way JL/AW have done it? In other words, have one run and then that's it? Seems to me that Aurora, Tyco, etc. produced the same car over a number of years, not just in one inital batch. Clearly AW could sell a lot more cars if they looked at their sales from the initial run and them went back and produced more of the good sellers.

Joe


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## cagee (Apr 20, 2007)

Grandcheapskate said:


> Do all manufacturers, going back to the days of Aurora, release new cars the way JL/AW have done it? In other words, have one run and then that's it? Seems to me that Aurora, Tyco, etc. produced the same car over a number of years, not just in one inital batch. Clearly AW could sell a lot more cars if they looked at their sales from the initial run and them went back and produced more of the good sellers.
> 
> Joe


I'm guessin its that chase factor they're after. You know I gotta buy em now cause its my only chance kinda thing. Almost like a pressure sale instead of when you're ready for it its here kinda sale.


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## Scafremon (Dec 11, 2006)

-- An inner is a box of 12. Master cases had 4 inners.

Thank you!

-- I don't see anything fun about wasting dozens of hours searching the web and spending a bunch of cash on shipping for individual cars. I also don't feel I should basically set up a shop to trade and sell stuff I don't want.

Isn't it as easy as going to a single website, and selecting the individual cars you want, even if it is selecting one of each car? Shipping should be the same (12 cars in a box vs. an inner box with 12 cars). And if you go this route, you don't have to trade or sell - you get exactly what you want. 

-- Think of it this way, an inner of slots is the same as a loaf of bread. How would you like it if you could only buy by the slice? How many people would leave the ends?

What if you could only buy slots by the inner, and each inner had more ends then middles? I think you'd be happy to find the person selling just the individual slices you want.

It seems to me that some slot collectors got spoiled by paying near wholesale for an inner, and are now complaining because they have to pay retail for each car. So they are protesting, and not buying what they really want, even though it is available to them. The resellers are on their side, "Random Packaging is hurting business", but in reality, the resellers are the ones who started the trouble.

When the deli's start selling their loafs of bread at near cost out the backdoor, they shouldn't complain that no one is buying their sandwhiches, and the loaf buyers should not complain that their loaf has 2 identical ends. 

Buy a sandwhich to eat, one to save, and be happy.

(I reserve the right to change my opinion if someone points out where I am wrong)


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

Scafremon said:


> --big snip*....
> 
> (I reserve the right to change my opinion if someone points out where I am wrong)


LMAO Scaf! Me too!


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## micyou03 (Apr 8, 2003)

The problem is that many of us don't have stores where we can go and look at cars and maybe find rare ones for retail. We have to go online and pay top dollar for rare ones or buy who knows how many cars to get the rare ones.


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## 22tall (Jul 28, 2002)

Scafremon said:


> -- An inner is a box of 12. Master cases had 4 inners.
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> ...


1. Please post your list of sellers that take requests for body color and window color and still sell for retail or lower.

2. You are blaming collectors and resellers for the problems? Get real. I don't recall alot of posts from collectors complaining about price of an inner. I do see complaints about the difficulty finding cars and the sheer number of unique cars. I haven't seen any of posts from sellers or collectors praising random packaging.

3. "but in reality ..." please post your statistics. Since you don't seem to be a collector or seller you must know something none of us mortals know.


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## motorcitytoyz (Oct 11, 2002)

WOW! What a thread!


Every story has two sides and as a distributor, I hear what the customer (hobby store/retailer/wholesale account) wants and then I here what AW wants. 

I think you, as the end user customer (retail buyer), that has a certain budget for collectibles/slot cars, should always know what they are getting when they make their purchase, whether that is online or in a brick n mortar store. That is why retail stores sell single vehicles, so you buy exactly what you like. I can not make a store carry the AW line - it is up to them to see the value in carrying the AW products. It is up to me to get in front of them and try to get that very valuable shelf space for the AW line. Some say yes and other say no! That is business 101...

I have always offered my customers a discount on a factory sealed case of cars, due to me not having to open them up to see what is inside. AW does not have you, the end user in mind. They are selling to me, the distributor, that in turn sells to the hobby store/retailer/wholesale account. 

Now, with that said, in October, AW's new website will be updated and I know that they will be selling all their items on the site. This is fine. That will be one more place where the end user (retail customer) can go and find what they need. I think once this happens, it will not be such an issue for getting the cars you need, even the short run cars. 

Tom has changed the rules to fit his vision of what he wants his company to be and where he wants it to go. While JL was a larger company with more employees, I think Tom has learned that size is not the issue. Making a quality product, at a good price point and keeping it fresh (always changing) is something that he is striving for. I only hope that all of you nay sayers will at least give Tom a liitle more time and less lip service. Do what you do, run your slot cars, play with them, fix them and buy/sell/trade them. Have fun with them....isn't that what it is all about anyway. Just having fun!

In closing, I am no expert on slot cars....I am always learning more and I hope that some of you slotheads will help both me, Tom and all the rest of the people that come here, to this forum, looking for advice and good will. 
The more moaning we do about things that we have no control over, the less people are going to come here looking for our help and advice. You all have so much more to give to this hobby and I am trying to do my part as well. No, AW products are not perfect, but neither is Mattel or Fisher Price. But I do know Tom, Amy, Tony and the rest of his staff are working their butts off so that we can enjoy the friuts of out labor. 

Thats is my story and I am sticking to it! LOL
(My mother always tells me that I should have been a preacher...Can I get a amen???) 
PS I hope most of you will be coming to the Autofest in Soth Bend, IN. I will be offering 10% discount on ALL merchandise to HobbyTalk members. Just print this out and bring to show for discount...


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

Scafremon said:


> --
> It seems to me that some slot collectors got spoiled by paying near wholesale for an inner, and are now complaining because they have to pay retail for each car. So they are protesting, and not buying what they really want, even though it is available to them. The resellers are on their side, "Random Packaging is hurting business", but in reality, the resellers are the ones who started the trouble.
> 
> (I reserve the right to change my opinion if someone points out where I am wrong)


Jeff,
Ah-ha! An opening....attack!!! LOL
Before I start, let me again state that my complaint is with AW's marketing stategy and not with the product or the willingness to invest in the hobby. It is intended as constructive, not destructive, critisism.
Where you are incorrect is that the cars are not available to them.
AW has made it very difficult (almost impossible) to buy a complete collection of each release even if you are willing to pay retail. If you go to the AW website and order a set of six, which color windows will you get? Maybe you don't care whether they are black, red, blue or green with yellow polka-dots, but you want them all to be the same. Ain't gonna happen unless you get lucky. Maybe you want only the black window variety. Sorry, the six cars you get will have random window colors. Did you get the one with or without stripes?
So, since the manufacturer can't deliver direct, you are left searching around the 'net for the cars you want. You can go to your favorite reseller online and ask for a set of six with black windows, but then he has to dig through many cases to find a complete set. And maybe there are none there.
Go to eBay? Spend all that time searching, bidding and then paying shipping to multiple sellers because you need to buy from different people to get a full set?
Drive around looking for hobby stores and then check through their entire inventory? Sounds like fun.
I disagree strongly that resellers started the trouble. In the JL days they pulled the White Lightnings and sold them for what - $25? So what? If I wanted a WL, I could buy it direct without buying loads of cases. What does AW sell them for direct? $25 each - and you have to buy all 6. Is AW scalping? The resellers had to buy a lot of cars to get the WLs, and they had a lot of slow sellers because they had to buy everything in the same quantity. If they sold everything at the same price, the WLs would go, the popular cars would go and then they would be stuck with the unpopular cars. AW can simply make the iWheels at probably the same cost as a regular car, but then charge a premium price. Again I ask ---scalping?
No, the problem did not start or reside with resellers. The problem started and remains the marketing and distribution stategy of both JL and AW. Having resellers buy the cars in equal quantities forces anyone who wishes to make a profit on these cars to mark them at different prices - higher for the popular cars and discount for the slow sellers. If resellers could buy each car seperately then there would be no scalping, no price differences and maybe no dumping of product. Why? Because the reseller isn't stuck with stock he can't sell.
Now, the resellers have to take their share of responsibility. If they have not relayed their concerns to AW, then they have no right to complain. If they have registered their concerns and the situation is not corrected, then they should not be buying any new releases. As long as resellers continue to support AW and the current marketing stategy, it will not change. If I was a reseller and did a significant business with AW, I would tell them to pack each car in its own case and let me order each car seperately. Otherwise, count me out.
And a discount for buying an entire case? What's wrong with that?
Now, if anyone can point out where I'm wrong, I'll simply ignore you! LOL

Thanks...Joe


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## videojimmy (Jan 12, 2006)

_What does AW sell them for direct? $25 each - and you have to buy all 6._

They're making you buy 6 cars when you may only want one of them. 
So I chose to buy none. 

They lost a sale, I lose out on what I wanted ... we both lose. 
Isn't selling a few cars to someone like me better than selling NO cars? 

I think it might be a class thing here... Tom grew up a rich kid and I'm sure he always had whatever he wanted, price didn't matter. When his dad bought him a new car for his 16th B-day, I bet he couldn't understand why every kid didn't get a new car for their b-days. 

He runs AW the same way... I mean, why can't you buy every car in a set to get the 1-2 you want? I've seen other posters here say the same thing, then they usually brag about how rich they are. It must be nice. 

They should just sell ALL their cars individually. If they produce a car that doesn't sell well... they can stop producing them after a run or two. The fact they were produced in lower number will make them harder to find and will also make them more valuble to the collectors who have to them all. Everyone wins. AW moves more units, Collectors get their chase cars, and regular smucks like me can have the few cars we really want. 

I like what I'm seeing in the new release, but I won't buy a set of 6 to get the 2-3 I want. It's just not worth the feeling of being taken advantage of.
If I went to a steakhouse, I would be pissed off if they told me I had to buy a chicken basket before I'm allowed to order a steak. That's the feeling I get from AW. 

I don't NEED these cars. I merely want a few of them... so maybe that's puts me in a different position than some others here... I don't know. I DO know there are a lot of people who feel the same way I do about this, and wound up buying fewer and fewer cars. 

I do what I did last time.... wait for a few months after they're released and buy them for next to nothing from dealers who are stuck with them. If AW fades away, I'll miss them... but it will be their own fault. It was their choice to exclude people like me from their marketing plan. If they made them availble from the start, I would have gladly paid 15 bucks per unit... but If I wait.. I can get them for 8-10 bucks from dealers who can't move them. 
It may work out better for me, but the hobby suffers. Someday Dealers may say "no thanks" to AW because they're tired of the whole scheme. 

but hey like Tom once posted here... if you don't like, don't buy it. 
I took his advice to heart.


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

> It seems to me that some slot collectors got spoiled by paying near wholesale for an inner, and are now complaining because they have to pay retail for each car. So they are protesting, and not buying what they really want, even though it is available to them. The resellers are on their side, "Random Packaging is hurting business", but in reality, the resellers are the ones who started the trouble.


*BINGO!* 



> This part is for you..Dan forces people to sell for the same price he sells direct to anyone that wants to buy from him..Is that right.


Damn straight it's right! He also asks that you, as a retailer who should know his own market, purchase close to what you think you can sell. He does that so his cars retain their good value throughout the market, and as such they do. Ask any retail shop, they have no problem selling his products. 

Now one or two for you, Steve. Where's your retail store? Got a track or two for your customers to race your retail products on? Do you also sell Tomy, BSRT, Wizzard, LL, and such? If not, why?


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

Having an extensive Model RR background I always enjoy a good train wreck.

Tell me I didnt just read about easin' up on belly achin' and lipservice?!!!

Puh-leeze! With that mentality things will never change and the Candyland express will never get an overhaul.

Perhaps people should start sending their deffective non running AW products back to the dealers on warranty claims... Oh thats right it's not worth the postage or packing materials. Check some other boards. Read the home page reviews and get a flavor for some of the posts. If you dare. Still it would be interesting to bomb the dealers with claims and see if we as consumers can get carp to run back uphill from whence it came. At least it would jam a stick in the wicket. The dealers would be scrambling to unpak cases to complete special requests and orders on top of keeping warranty problems in order. As long as the end user lays down and refuses to push back, it will continue as scripted.

What we have here is mild, still somewhat constructive, and quite civilized when compared to, and I quote,"threw them down the sewer" and "ripped the magnets out and bootstomped the ---!" Many other horendous quotes that I "dasnt" dare repeat.

It's not just here. It's across the boards. 

Want our feedback and opinions? It's out there for your viewing pleasure. Dont expect the PC version when frustration levels are as high as they are currently. Real players take their whiskey straight, and their spankings pants down! Want the tide to turn? Correct the problems! Agreed thats a big platter of crow, but it's only gonna get bigger. Sure you got happy campers out there, but there's an awful lot of not so happy campers too.

If AW doesnt like the firestorm it has created then perhaps they shouldnt be playing with matches...SMOKEY THE BEAR

"Duz dat hoit?"... "Yes doctor!" ..."Den dont do dat!".... GRAUCHO MARX

Sorry guys! For the most part I troll along somewhat peacably and ambivalent to this issue and then my cup runneth over...

and then "I can stands no more!"... POPEYE THE SAILOR

I'll go back to the shadows for a while again. "I'm much better now!"

I expect my cars to run out of the box and resent having to play scavenger hunt to get what I want. It's the crux of the issue! No amount of traction magnets, super new improved chassis, or any other smoke screen will disuade me from driving my blade home. "It's our nickel and we can make the devil dance for it... should we choose to"... GRANNY HALL... and THAT is business 101!


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## mrwillysgasser (Jan 3, 2002)

Thanking a deep breath.....These are only toys.......Now back to my good place ......slot Customs,body work and paint fumes .


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## hankster (Jan 1, 1998)

Time to close this thread


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