# Continuous Track - Anybody ever do it THIS way?



## Dslot (Sep 2, 2007)

I've been thinking of making a small (maybe 3' x 5') one-lane, switchback hillclimb course with fluid twisting curves and reverse loops on the ends. I thought it would have to be routed until this method occurred to me. Has anyone ever tried this or heard of anyone doing anything similar for laying smooth continuous track? Only a short section is shown in illustration, but the whole track would be done at once. 










Flexible strips might be wood, plastic, even soft "Fun Foam", if it can be sealed well enough that the resin doesn't melt it. An alternative to using the flexible strips to form the slots is pre-made flexible channel material sold in rolls for routed track builders. Temporarily glued upside-down, the channel could be pulled loose from the former as part of the track. They would be incorporated into the resin track for easily-created smooth slots.

 Has it ever been done? 

-- D


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## joegri (Feb 13, 2008)

wait a minute there dslot.are you saying to cast a trak?whoa o gotta wrap my head around that. that sounds cool as hell!that is such a radical concept it could work.wow i gotta think about that for a sec.


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## Rolls (Jan 1, 2010)

Intriguing. You really got me thinking... I got nothing for you now, but this sure gets the gears spinning. Very fresh approach.


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## hartracerman (Jan 9, 2005)

That would be a way expensive thing to do compared to other more traditional methods. But it sure would be different. Got an inside line on resin?


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

Wow, I've thought about a similar technique many a time over the decades to build a "poured track" by laying the rails in a trough and then filling in the volume around the rails with a concrete patch or other sort of plasticized material to provide the filler for the track, with the rails already laid out. 

What got me thinking about this was less as a technique to built an entire track and more as a way to join existing tracks for which no adapter was available, a kind of "wet splice" technique. 

Track borders could also be made using this technique of filling in a channel with a liquid material that hardens, much like building a sidewalk with concrete and forms, which is where I got my idea.


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## smalltime (Jun 3, 2006)

The problem I had with this concept was what matl. do you use for the cast.

It would be awsome to do, but without alot of trial and error you would be hard pressed to get a decent end result.

As an alternative, if you buy a sheet of 1/4 masonite, it will bend almost exactly like a sheet of Syntra. When you lay out some bends and curves, and go at it with a jig saw, there are alot of things you can get done. I made a 4 x 16 track with over 24" of elevation changes in 8 feet, using this exact method. MAHORSC has seen it and raced on it.

I'll try to dig out the pics.


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## resinmonger (Mar 5, 2008)

Necessity is the mother of invention... You got the process working overtime, DSlot! That is one great idea! :thumbsup:


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

What if track could be extruded, much like plastic gutters are?


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

NTxSlotCars said:


> What if track could be extruded, much like plastic gutters are?


 I actually had some VERY basic discussions about this after we produced the three molded curves a few years back. The concept would only be for straights, but it might afford you the opportunity to make very long straights. One "problem" is the ends would be squared off - you would need some type of adapter to get them to interface with your current track.

To DSlots initial post...I often have a lot of track options floating through my head, most of which I don't voice because, as the song goes, I don't want a visit from "those nice young men in their clean white coats".

It sounds to me like you are talking about casting an entire layout. Are you going to go through the work to create a template only to use it once? Wouldn't this also be expensive? I think more along the lines of AFXToo. Build a "mold box", lay down the rail and something to make the slot, and then pour your mold mixture into the box and let it harden around the rails and slot.

But D, you keep thinking and throwing up those really cool diagrams. Some day someone is going to hit on a new and doable idea.

Joe


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

Grandcheapskate said:


> The concept would only be for straights, but it might afford you the opportunity to make very long straights.
> Joe


I guess this would be a great way to mass produce drag strips in different scales.


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## Dslot (Sep 2, 2007)

Replies to a few of the comments so far:



> ... are you saying to cast a trak?


Yes. Cast an entire small track, or decent sections of a larger one.



> ... what matl. do you use for the cast ...


I'd guess polyester resin reinforced with fiberglass or other filler material. If it's good enough for auto bodies, boat hulls and surfboards it certainly should handle any stresses involved in HO car racing. It might be useful to add a plasticizer to make the final product slightly more flexible. 

BUT - possibly some foam-in place stuff might work, and might be cheaper. I just don't have enough experience with it to make an educated guess.



> That would be a way expensive thing to do ... Got an inside line on resin?


Well, I wasn't talking about doing all the area between the tracks, just the track itself and a bit of the ground on either side.

Yes, it's probably more expensive than routing, even counting the cost of the second router after the first one proves unsuitable, plus all the broken bits and the extra church contributions to make up for the resulting language. 

Resin is $32 a gallon or so. Don't know how many feet of track you can get from a gallon. 3" fiberglass cloth tape is about a dollar a yard. Plus miscellaneous tools and supplies, gloves, tint, release. Then you have to build the former from a sheet of something - galvanized metal, plastic, Masonite? Could you get away with foamcore, if you sealed it??? Plus lots of feet of unknown strip material to form the grooves.

Well, when you break it down, it does sound considerably more expensive. Maybe prohibitively so. To be sure, you'd have to crunch the numbers.

Thanks for the comments and interest. :wave:

-- D


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## Dslot (Sep 2, 2007)

*Info Help Request*

*Does anybody know* the name of the supplier who sells the rolls of flexible channel material that routed track builders can use to make slot and rail grooves. It allows you to rout a wider groove that you pop the channel material in, then put the rail in the channel. Comes in colors, as I recall - black, maybe grey, plus lane colors.

Thanks,
-- D


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## Dslot (Sep 2, 2007)

> _*AfxToo* sez:_ ... I've thought about a similar technique many a time over the decades to build a "poured track" by laying the rails in a trough and then filling in the volume around the rails ...


I've tried to figure a way to include the rails directly in the casting, but they have to project above the track. It seems you'd either have to rout grooves for them in the former or cut pretty precise relief spacers. If I'm having to use a router either way, it would seem easier just to do a regular routed track.

I can think of some ways around the problem, but so far they seem to add more complexity than they save.

-- D


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

Dslot said:


> *Does anybody know* the name of the supplier who sells the rolls of flexible channel material that routed track builders can use to make slot and rail grooves. It allows you to rout a wider groove that you pop the channel material in, then put the rail in the channel. Comes in colors, as I recall - black, maybe grey, plus lane colors.
> 
> Thanks,
> -- D


 I'd like to know this also. I would love to make the slot on plastic track one continuous run by laying in an insert. If the slot on plastic track were made continuous (by use of an insert), I think that would improve plastic track dramatically. I think a continuous slot would make a much bigger difference than continuous rail.

Joe


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

Now that's got me thinking. Hmmmmm... a never ending slot car track.
Continuous track... I think you got something there.


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## Dslot (Sep 2, 2007)

> _*Smalltime* sez:_ ... if you buy a sheet of 1/4 masonite, it will bend almost exactly like a sheet of Syntra. When you lay out some bends and curves, and go at it with a jig saw, there are alot of things you can get done. I made a 4 x 16 track with over 24" of elevation changes in 8 feet, using this exact method. MAHORSC has seen it and raced on it.
> 
> I'll try to dig out the pics.


Thanks Smalltime. I'm not really clear on what you're saying when you say "this exact same method". Did you rout grooves in a piece of 1/4" Masonite to create the usual type of routed track. Or did you use the Masonite as a buck or former to cast a continuous track, as I was speculating about. Either way, I'll be looking forward to seeing the pix.

-- D


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## ggnagy (Aug 16, 2010)

This thread made me think about a tubbie without the need to add L&J track. one peice table and track combined.


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## Dslot (Sep 2, 2007)

ggnagy said:


> This thread made me think about a tubbie without the need to add L&J track. one peice table and track combined.


 Chuckle.  I almost mentioned that at the beginning of the thread.


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## Dslot (Sep 2, 2007)

NTxSlotCars said:


> What if track could be extruded, much like plastic gutters are?


What a terrific idea, Rich! 

I wonder if there's a flat material that would be sufficiently curvable in the horizontal plane without popping up in the vertical plane unless you wanted it to. I suspect it would have to be a single-lane or even a half-lane product like railroad cork, but that's okay - just keep snugging additional pieces up to the first one for as many lanes as you want. Just think - you buy a roll of track and a roll of rail. Curve the track as you like - flat curves, banks, hills, bumps and cambers - and tack it down, then snap in the rail and make the electrical connections. One track joint in the whole course. Cooool.

-- D


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## Dslot (Sep 2, 2007)

Grandcheapskate said:


> The concept would only be for straights, but it might afford you the opportunity to make very long straights. One "problem" is the ends would be squared off - you would need some type of adapter to get them to interface with your current track.


You were addressing Rich's extruded product idea, but for my one-off proposal, if you wanted to include commercial track, you could just turn your existing track pieces upside down on the former, aligned with your groove-forming strips. Then when you glopped on the resin to make the track leading up to the section, it would just melt itself right into the end of the commercial track by solvent action - no joint. You'd need to use clay or shims to bring the cast track level up to the commercial track level (since it's held slightly off the surface by the power rails).



> ..I often have a lot of track options floating through my head, most of which I don't voice because, as the song goes, I don't want a visit from "those nice young men in their clean white coats".


 Heh heh ...  Joe, I know I can always count on you to share my enthusiasm about wild-hare trackmaking fantasies.



> ...you are talking about casting an entire layout.


Just the *track* for an entire layout. You could do the whole thing, "tub-track style," but then you'd be building all the scenery upside down in negative form. Plus, it would be too rigid to make easy track adjustments. I'd rather just do the track, put it on a table, and add the scenery later.



> Are you going to go through the work to create a template only to use it once?


That's what you do when hand-routing a layout. All the precision work for one track. Actually with my method, if the former is sturdy enough, you could pull off the first cast layout, repair any damage to the former, coat the former with mold release, and immediately start glopping on the resin for a second (third, fourth) casting of the same track layout. For multiple production, though, I'd start thinking about metal for the former base and the groove-forming strips. For a one-shot, I'm thinking cheap and easy to work with - I don't mind destroying the strips getting the track casting off.



> I think more along the lines of AFXToo. Build a "mold box", lay down the rail and something to make the slot, and then pour your mold mixture into the box and let it harden around the rails and slot.


You've still got the problem of grooving the former to take the rails, so we seem to be back to the process of precise routing with a fragile wire-sized bit, and/or filling the rail-groove with lock-wire, resin, or something else, only now it's on the former, not the track. That might be okay for commercial production of the same molded track over and over, but for a home track, that sounds like it's no easier than routing the grooves directly into the table. 

Also, the mold box sounds like wasted effort. Resin with filler in it will spread a bit but stay pretty much where you put it on a horizontal surface. So what if the bottom isn't flat? Just glue it to the table with silicone caulk. 



> But D, you keep thinking and throwing up those really cool diagrams. Some day someone is going to hit on a new and doable idea.


I hope so, and anyone's welcome to take any of my ideas commercial. Of course, it would be nice if he remembers me when it turns into a moneymaker. But mostly I just like to design.

-- D


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

NTxSlotCars said:


> Now that's got me thinking. Hmmmmm... a never ending slot car track.
> Continuous track... I think you got something there.


 I started a thread on this a long time ago...

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=205827

Remember that one D?

Joe


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## Dslot (Sep 2, 2007)

*Ooooooooh. Slot-liner.*



Grandcheapskate said:


> I started a thread on this a long time ago...
> 
> http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=205827
> 
> Remember that one D?


Oh yes.  You were looking for material to smooth slot-flare filling, and I thought you were after a continuous strip to line the slot with so that the pin would not snag on the joint or flare. I still like the idea of an installable liner if the flares or joints are really the impediment to smooth running that you think they are.

By the way I found what appears to be the ideal slot liner: Mylar tape (very tough and wear resistant), 100-foot length, 7/32" width (i.e. slot depth), an incredible .0012" thickness (shouldn't narrow the slot perceptibly), aggressively and permanently self-adhesive, built for heat and hard service, specifically designed not to ooze adhesive, and even black colored:
*3M #1875 Professional Black Splicing Tape for Movie Film*.

Only one problem. It hasn't been made since 3M figured out in the 1990s that movie-projector film accessories had a very limited future in the digital age. Haven't been able to find a modern substitute. Oh, well.

Audio or video splicing tape remains an option if it isn't white or obnoxiously colored. 1/8" (0.125) splicing tape might be close enough to slot depth (about 7/32" or 0.219" for Tomy) to do the job. At $10 for 100 ft. the price is reasonable. Or 8-track (.250"), 8 mm (.314") or wider splicing tape might serve if cut back to slot depth after installation. I don't have specs on color or thickness but the tape is formulated specifically not to leak adhesive over time - and that's good for us.

Of course, Joe, a truly _grand_ cheapskate would make his own self-adhesive slot-liner from old audio or video cassette tape (essentially free, for the foreseeable future) and spray adhesive.

Mylar audio cassette tape is 0.150" wide - maybe enough to work in a 0.219" slot. The thicknesses run: 
60 minute tape = 1.5 mil (.0015)
90 minute tape = 1.0 mil
120 minute tape = .5 mil​I'd start with the 1.5 mil. The oxide and spray adhesive will add also add some thickness.

Used VHS videotape is a possibility, too, if it is practical to cut to width after installation in the slot. The extra width (1/2") would give it greater rigidity, which may make application considerably easier. The base mylar is 1 mil (.001 or less) but after the oxide is added and you spray adhesive on it, I'm not sure what the final thickness would be. 

Other issues with old audio/video tape are:
-Will the oxide layer prevent the adhesive from doing its job?
-Will the spray adhesive ooze over time and gum the slot?
-Is the mylar too thin and stretchy to smooth over the irregularities at joints?​
Still, you can't beat the price, eh? Just reach in the cabinet and grab 'em. Pull out the tape, then use the casette body as a source of black and clear styrene. Win-win.

Anyway, there's my thought-experiment on slot-liner for smooth running. Actually trying to do it would require getting out of my recliner, so I leave the task of testing it to the younger and more motivated. :wave:

-- D


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## smalltime (Jun 3, 2006)

Dslot said:


> Thanks Smalltime. I'm not really clear on what you're saying when you say "this exact same method". Did you rout grooves in a piece of 1/4" Masonite to create the usual type of routed track. Or did you use the Masonite as a buck or former to cast a continuous track, as I was speculating about. Either way, I'll be looking forward to seeing the pix.
> 
> -- D


Can't find the picks ....yet.

No I didn't cut the slots in the masonite, just the outside edges in the shape of the assembled track. This also serves as the "roadbed" or foundation for the plastic surface.


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

Dslot said:


> Actually trying to do it would require getting out of my recliner, so I leave the task of testing it to the younger and more motivated.
> -- D


LOL!!!! Now you are starting to sound like a friend of mine. I do believe he and the recliner will one day merge into a new life form.

Yes, the thought experiments on how to smooth out the flares and joints continue, but no actual work has been done for quite a while.

Joe


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