# Super III Ebay sellers



## mking (Apr 25, 2000)

Ive seen several AW Super III cars on ebay go for well over $30

I bought a case, kept some for me (i like slot cars and like to have at least a few of each different chassis available, even ones that i dont race), and sold some here (6). In my swap and sale post, I purposefully pointed out that these (like all AW products) need tweaking. 

In other words, I decided I didnt want to sell these on ebay by hyping them as "ho slot car very fast In-line Competition Chassis for extreme speed +handling"

I wonder how many of those ebay buyers are going to be REALLY disappointed, and how much negative feedback will be generated

btw, as far as the ones ive kept, ive run 2, 1 is a dog (slower than a tomy turbo) and the other is a tad faster than a tomy turbo but not as fast as a tomy super g.


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## Dragula (Jun 27, 2003)

Interesting to see which sellers will stand behind there word when and if these "inline competition cars" go south.
DRAGjet


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## sethndaddy (Dec 4, 2004)

When I tweeked the pickup shoes mine ran awesome, out of the box was a severe disappointment.


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## tjettim (Nov 29, 2005)

How many ohms is the Arm? Will it fit in a Storm?


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

> How many ohms is the Arm? Will it fit in a Storm?


Around 6 ohms. The ones I've measured are in the 6.2/6.3 ohm range. No, the arm will not fit in a Storm.


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## tjettim (Nov 29, 2005)

What are the dimensional differences between the AW arm and the Storm Mabuci arm?


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## Gary#8 (Dec 14, 2004)

I just got a Super III. Ran slow out of the box. Had to tweek the pick-up shoes, Push down on front motor bushing to aline armature and tightened the brush screws till the head of screw was even with chamfer in brush tube and apply lock tite as brush screws unscrewed during first run. Rear tires size is .500 stock. Not a bad car for $20. bucks.


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

The AW arm is laid out exactly like a Tomy arm except for the comm timing, which matches a Tyco. Lay a Tomy and Tyco arm side by side and you'll see.


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

Can wizzard brushes, springs and screws be used?


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

> Can wizzard brushes, springs and screws be used?
> Reply With Quote


*Brushes* - Yes, but they will either have to be cut down or the tension reduced by using a shorter or softer spring and by using a thread locker on the screws.

*Springs* - Yes, but they will have to be paired up with the brushes properly.

*Screws* - No. The thread pitch is different. The screws that fit the Wizzard car are too course and large to fit the AW car.


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

Thanks.


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

Curiousity.

When the brush retainers are wound in with out the spring or brush apparently they fly right in and fly right out?

The intuitive fix is some form of non hardening "goobery" loctite as stated earlier in this thread. Systems normal. It's not uncomon to see this straight from the factory in some larger electric motors.

No doubt the Slll's pyro technic displays are related to the gradual release of brush tension. That said, the devil's advocate dictates that occasionally we see a manufacturing burr or snag in the brush guide impede proper brush float on the comm creating a nasty arc or current interrupt straight from the get-go, where there is no "back out" of the retainer. A sloppy guide to brush tolerance can allow the brush to chatter in the holder. This "canted" condition can wear a the brush within the guide and the by-product is excessive carbon dust in the guide that can build up and heat hardened to a point where brush float is impeded by coking of the guide. The tell is is an abnormally "hooked" wear pattern on the face of the carbon. The signs are more obvious in rectangular carbons. Round carbons that are not floating will exhibit a taper on the spring load side or heel with a corresponding divot diagonally opposed from the heel wear on the brush body at the loaded side of the mouth of the guide. A round carbon that IS floating will exhibit a conical taper at the heel and a concentric furrow/ring at the guide mouth.

Certainly carbons wont always wear evenly given that the loaded side will show more wear unless it's service requirement is reversable. If tolerances are normal, one wouldnt expect to see detonation right out of the can. However if tolerances are subpar it can occur quickly.

I only site these examples with the implication that the symptoms are related but the end result usually lets all the smoke out of the windings. Just my morning ramble.

Back on task now. 

No mention has been made of the comm runout. While there's little doubt that wandering retainers are the source of much annoyance. I'm now somewhat suspicious of mechanical comm pulse. This vibration is telegraphed to the already loosey goosey retainer. The brush spring serves as more than just a method for keeping the brush in contact with the comm. It provides the cushion needed to pick up the variance in comm run out 

Some times ya got more than one problem.:freak: I would be interested to know if "Too's" in-series amp tests reveal a steady pulse with several test subjects, or a grab-bag of results where some show a more concentric comm with less loading and unloading of the tensioners. 

Being as how we got splitting maul and chainsaw mistakes like rubbing arms and crowns, snow plow pick up angles, and wires with all the smoke let out...do ya suppose that the comm runout was checked at any time?

Perhaps the comm body is seated to the arm shaft using the Cromagnon gnarling...er ...knurling ....


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

I followed about 4% of that:roll::roll::roll:


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

Me too Dean. Just an old man wandering far afield this morning and having random flashbacks from my electric motor repair days.

Bottom line is that excessive comm runout causes brush flutter, further aggrevated by poor toleraces between the brush and the guide or mediocre machining of the guide and retainers. 

Super size the image in yer mind. Picture one of those lumpy JL TO rear rims and pretend it's a comm....now try to get a carbon brush to track on it. "Wabba wabba slop-a-weeble" LOL

All merely a speculation for arguements sake based on my limited knowledge that problems often come in pairs or multiples when two or more parts are involved.


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## SplitPoster (May 16, 2006)

So Bill, what you are saying is that one could put a runout gauge on the comm? Forward edge vs. rear edge, wonder if some would be different? Would be interesting to see the range of eccentricity across a number of chassis, and one would wonder if some comms are not made symmetrical, or if some are not "drilled" exactly right or some shafts are not straight.... That would 'splain why some would be dogs and some would run super straight out of the box, and it would enlighten as which part is most susceptible to being Ganook.

I got it Bill, the brush springs are for constant tension and to compensate for wear. They are not a part of a suspension system.


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## T-Jet Racer (Nov 16, 2006)

They sell seating stone for commutator brushes. I have seen the rc guys use them so I guess a hobby shop would have them. After you check the brushes are free and that the tension is good you can use the stone on it. If I wanted to check the brush tension I would use a small slice of paper, place it between the brush and comm, tighten down the brush retainer and spring then pull on the paper and feel it. If you use printer paper with a little bit of a grain to it it should leave a pensil mark on it. You can then check that with the other side and compair the wipe. It is also good to check that between the sgments of the comm has been cut down slightly lower than the copper. I hope this helps.


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

> non hardening "goobery" loctite


Yep, that's what Vibra-Tite Formula 3 is. I just got a fresh bottle from McMaster Carr yesterday. It's good for body pins on lexan bodies too, just coat the tip of the pins and you're good to go. An oz will keep me for a year or more depending on the "borrow" ratio.

PART# 75145A69: VIBRA-TITE REUSABLE THREADLOCKER, 1-OZ BRUSH TOP BOTTLE 

Even though it comes with a brush, for little tiny slot cars it's best to apply it with a pointy toothpick. The secret is to just put a tiny dot of it one one side of the screw. Don't coat the whole thing. It's good for anything that tends to loosen with vibration and and heat. Popular with RC folks. Lucky Bob and WHP carry it too. There's a picture on the tuning tips part of the Wizzard site that shows a picture of using Vibra-Tite on brush screws.

There is another method of keeping the screw from backing out. Some folks call it "boogering up the threads" which basically means you deform part of the threads on the screw so it no longer turns freely. I'm not a good booger-upper and don't want to ruin the threads on the softer metal brush barrels. I'll stick with the goo spot.


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## Hilltop Raceway (Feb 12, 2006)

Bill, you on medication or do you need some??? My new AW runs about like I was afraid it would, has rear wheel wobble, you need earplugs to run it, will make a great off-roader!!! I had to give it a try, just hoping...RM


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

I've seen the screws back out with big dollar arms that are as true as you could ever get them. I agree with Bill that this is a likely source of some of the heat/smoke issues, the stories are tell-tale...car goes fast, car slows down, things glow, things smoke. As for sticky stuff, if you can find it purple Loctite is another good one, again a toothpick tip drop is all you need.


My brushes have seated quite nicely, no visible bounce and very little spark...I break 'em in by holding the car's rear tires against the spinning chuck of my drill press for 5 minutes or so. :thumbsup:


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

T-Jet Racer said:


> They sell seating stone for commutator brushes. I have seen the rc guys use them so I guess a hobby shop would have them. After you check the brushes are free and that the tension is good you can use the stone on it. If I wanted to check the brush tension I would use a small slice of paper, place it between the brush and comm, tighten down the brush retainer and spring then pull on the paper and feel it. If you use printer paper with a little bit of a grain to it it should leave a pensil mark on it. You can then check that with the other side and compair the wipe. It is also good to check that between the sgments of the comm has been cut down slightly lower than the copper. I hope this helps.


Yes t-jet, it's called a diamond brush seater stone. A common tool/product in electric motor shops. I've still got a box that I appropriated in my lunch box...LOL.

Works great were you can get at the comm and or brush ring. I have used it on in-lines where the comm is exposed. Problem is that it powders up and blows around the tight quarters of HO slot cars, prohibitive in my mind given the close proximity of the arm bushing/bearing as they are not sealed like the bearings in the motors that the diamond stone is intended for. 

So in essence you may also hone some parts ya didnt intend to.:freak: 

Yes it worked great! ...but involves tearing things down for a thorough cleaning afterwards...so if ya add that time to the equation it's just as easy to be patient and break them in unloaded and at reduced voltage. I figure I'm time and materials ahead.

Ultimately the brush seater is a rough cut to get things close. Maximum efficency only occurs when all the seater has sparked off and the carbons have run fully into the comm anyway! Keep in mind that exccessive stoning cannot straighten a bad comm and accellerates brush wear. 

In a broad stroke: carbons used in AC drives use a denser brush material to lengthen service intervals and often require a "stoning" when rebrushed to seat them prior to applying a full service load.

The make up of carbons intended for DC drives like slotcars or a golf cart motor is less dense and generally requires little truing as they wear right in with little or no fuss. Of course it's then a given that they have a shorter service life due to their softer make-up. 

This is not to say that ya cant stone them, but again IMHO it's a waste of time and materials to accelerate the process of something that, more often than not, happens naturally in a very short time.


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