# Round 2 Big E club release news



## jaws62666 (Mar 25, 2009)

Round 2 has a new blog out on the Galileo. It is preluded with news that it looks like there is a slight delay in the Big E release? i hope it isnt pushed back too much. Its like waiting for Xmas for something and finding out it was out of stock

http://www.collectormodel.com/


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## CLBrown (Sep 8, 2010)

Well, that would seem to be that then, re: the scale. A shame, but oh well... A 1:32 Galileo, at an overall length of 24' would mean a 9" model. (A 26' OAL Galileo, with a 24' hull, would be 9.75".)

Not BAD, but it does just seem a bit... "smallish"... to me.

A 1:24 scale 24' shuttle would be exactly 12" in length (the 26' version which I personally prefer, as mentioned above, would be exactly 13" in length.)

I dunno... I mean, I'll buy the 1:32 kit (and I'm sure it will, necessarily, be MUCH less expensive!). But I do wish that the larger kit was what they were going to make. (sigh)

Re: the 1701 kit release... no huge surprise there. I suspect that the release date issue has to do with Chinese customs rules... NEVER an easy thing to work through! (Unless you maintain a separate budget for bribes...grrrr...)


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## robiwon (Oct 20, 2006)

Sadly, not a lot of interest in the shuttle (I will buy one though) but I am O.K. with the news on the Big E. If it's "in production" that's good enough news for me. Predicting a year or so in advance when a model will hit shelves has to be taken with a grain of salt anyway, especialy when dealing with an overseas facility.


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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

CLBrown said:


> Re: the 1701 kit release... no huge surprise there. I suspect that the release date issue has to do with Chinese customs rules... NEVER an easy thing to work through! (Unless you maintain a separate budget for bribes...grrrr...)


Note to Round 2: *BUILD AMERICAN!* What extra you spend upfront you'll more than save in not having the back and forth, the language and cultural mismatches, and having to delay stuff because the other guys refuse to get it right the first time.


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## Opus Penguin (Apr 19, 2004)

Not surprised on the delay either as I would have expected news before this on the pre-order. Jamie stated in a previous blog that they were trying to set up the pre-order process and this may have delayed things a bit.


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## Hunch (Apr 6, 2003)

Pretty soon it wont make sense to produce kits "over there". The price of oil keeps rising and so does the price of manufacturing. I would GLADLY pay a couple extra bucks if it meant putting Americans back to work.

As for the delay on the the big E....


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

Hunch said:


> Pretty soon it wont make sense to produce kits "over there". The price of oil keeps rising and so does the price of manufacturing. I would GLADLY pay a couple extra bucks if it meant putting Americans back to work.
> 
> As for the delay on the the big E....


Glad more and more people are seeing this. I have been saying it for years on this board and for a long time I have gotten nasty remarks for my "naive" thinking. With all the added costs of shipping and time delays, it will come out to be around the same price soon. LET'S START NOW!!!!!!!


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## CLBrown (Sep 8, 2010)

Yes... 

The "per hour" cost of tooling is higher here than there... that's true.

But, the "number of passes" is usually FAR LOWER.

Furthermore, and this is a HUGE issue...

IF YOU HAVE THE TOOLING HERE, YOU CAN ENSURE THAT YOU KNOW HOW MANY SHOTS HAVE BEEN PRODUCED.

There will be hundreds of thousands of these kits produced in China which will never, ever be "reported" to Round2. I know, for a fact, that this is how it works, because I've traveled to China quite a bit. I've bought lots and lots of stuff, in China. Not "counterfeit" items, but real "production line" items using the same tooling, etc. But items lacking, say, serial numbers.

(In fact, I've bought that sort of item for products I was actually working on, and confirmed that the items were made from my original production tooling.)

Yes, the numbers "up front" sure look good. But realize, Round Two is going to receive revenue from a partial subset... maybe 1/2, maybe less... of the total production run which will be "shot" in China.

Those sold in China itself will not really affect the Round2 bottom line, compared to making them in the States, because Round2 (like any US company) can't really sell US made product in China (it's illegal to do so!).

But at least half of the "off the books" kits will be sold to other markets, outside of China. And THAT will deeply cut into Round Two's revenue stream on this kit.

I've seen it... quite a few times, in multiple markets. It's standard operating procedure for China, unfortunately.


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## Edge (Sep 5, 2003)

I really want to see what the latest test shots look like. Not gonna plunk any money down until I'm sure they have kept their promises.


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## GKvfx (May 30, 2008)

CLBrown said:


> ..........IF YOU HAVE THE TOOLING HERE, YOU CAN ENSURE THAT YOU KNOW HOW MANY SHOTS HAVE BEEN PRODUCED.
> 
> There will be hundreds of thousands of these kits produced in China which will never, ever be "reported" to Round2. I know, for a fact, that this is how it works, because I've traveled to China quite a bit. I've bought lots and lots of stuff, in China. Not "counterfeit" items, but real "production line" items using the same tooling, etc. But items lacking, say, serial numbers...........


Which was one of the reasons Tamiya moved some (all?) of its production line out of China a while ago.......

Gene


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## hal9001 (May 28, 2008)

CLBrown said:


> Those sold in China itself will not really affect the Round2 bottom line, compared to making them in the States, because Round2 (like any US company) can't really sell US made product in China (it's illegal to do so!).


I sure would like to hit appon this, but, alas, the rules of this forum prohibit it! It would borderline political...

HAL9001-


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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

If nothing else, you'd be able to tell whether or not the mold is right within a matter of hours instead of weeks. How much time and money would that save right off the top?


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## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

I've been waiting forty years. A little longer won't hurt.


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## mach7 (Mar 25, 2002)

It's fine.

I'm not worried and to be honest I would have been surprised to get it in September. The work Jamie and R2 has done is truly extraordinary!

I hope I see it by October for my birthday, but whenever it gets here is ok.

I would expect November.

We don't know where they are at at this point, but once everything is done it's still 10-14 days to cross the pacific and then it has to clear customs and get re shipped.


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## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

I'm ready to pay for my premiere edition as soon as it's available. I'm also eager to see the next update...and with the final word on those infamous gridlines.


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## CLBrown (Sep 8, 2010)

Warped9 said:


> I'm ready to pay for my premiere edition as soon as it's available. I'm also eager to see the next update...and with the final word on those infamous gridlines.


You didn't hear? They decided to make them wider, so that they now resemble a Hersey's chocolate bar's "gridlines." AAAAAAAA!!


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## BolianAdmiral (Feb 24, 2009)

Warped9 said:


> I'm ready to pay for my premiere edition as soon as it's available. I'm also eager to see the next update...and with the final word on those infamous gridlines.


Considering that the kit is already supposedly being produced, I'd wager that the gridlines we saw in the last update is what we'll be getting.


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

CLBrown said:


> You didn't hear? They decided to make them wider, so that they now resemble a Hersey's chocolate bar's "gridlines." AAAAAAAA!!


Will they be able to match the color of the chocolate in the plastic, or will we need to paint it to get the proper look. Also, will they be supplying "Hershey's" decals for the individual panels or will that be an after market item!


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

BolianAdmiral said:


> Considering that the kit is already supposedly being produced, I'd wager that the gridlines we saw in the last update is what we'll be getting.


You want a smoothie, and you get a fribble.
Oh well.


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## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

BolianAdmiral said:


> Considering that the kit is already supposedly being produced, I'd wager that the gridlines we saw in the last update is what we'll be getting.


We have to realize that what we've last seen I so far wasn't supposed to be the last word. I understood they were still waiting for one more pass at it after what we saw and then they'd decide.


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## Opus Penguin (Apr 19, 2004)

BolianAdmiral said:


> Considering that the kit is already supposedly being produced, I'd wager that the gridlines we saw in the last update is what we'll be getting.


Gary hinted at a version #4 we didn't see so you may lose that wager.


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## BolianAdmiral (Feb 24, 2009)

^

I'll be very happy to lose it.


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## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

And this could be part of the reason for delay.


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## charonjr (Mar 27, 2000)

The UESPA Star Fleet: brought to you by BANG BANG, the greatest Hershey Rice Crunch Bar ever made. Look for our logo on all Federation Fleet vessels.


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## Steve Mavronis (Oct 14, 2001)

When will pre-orders start to be taken for the non-club edition?


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Didn't somebody once say that tooling and producing in the US would raise the retail price by at least 50%?


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

John P said:


> Didn't somebody once say that tooling and producing in the US would raise the retail price by at least 50%?


The tooling is cheaper in China but a couple of firms I've worked for found it cheaper to produce the parts here in the US.
There were a couple of other positive sides to moving production here. One being quality, the other biggie was the fact that for every run of items they made in China the factories seemed to tripple the order and sell the excess stuff all over Asia.


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## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

Edge said:


> I really want to see what the latest test shots look like. Not gonna plunk any money down until I'm sure they have kept their promises.


Well everything I've seen so far has bolstered my confidence in the final product. The gridline Issue is the last thing left that has me curious. It looked to me they were well on their to getting the result they wanted. The last shot we've seen so far wasn't bad and they said they still weren't quite there yet.

So either we get even finer gridlines or we'll get a smoothie---that's what they've been saying all along and so far they haven't given me cause to doubt them.

Finer lines or smoothie---either way we win.


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## CLBrown (Sep 8, 2010)

John P said:


> Didn't somebody once say that tooling and producing in the US would raise the retail price by at least 50%?


Somebody might have said that but it wouldn't be true.


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## CLBrown (Sep 8, 2010)

Warped9 said:


> Well everything I've seen so far has bolstered my confidence in the final product. The gridline Issue is the last thing left that has me curious.


Well, there's also the final light kit, and the "weathering decals."


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## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

CLBrown said:


> Well, there's also the final light kit, and the "weathering decals."


The lighting kit is something some will go for while others might want to cobble together their own thing. The weathering decals ditto since some will have more confidence in their ability rather than rely on decals.


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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

The delay doesn't bother me in the least. I won't be getting a decent check from CafePress until January anyway, so it works for me.


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## Opus Penguin (Apr 19, 2004)

I'm getting the combo kit including lighting, etching, and weathering decals, but do not plan to use the decals. I may just sell them. I am going for the combo because in the long run it is still cheaper.


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## charonjr (Mar 27, 2000)

Excuse me, what "combo" kit? AFAIK, the premiere kit includes only the pilot pieces and nothing else. The light kit is another $140, and more for the decals, brass etch, etc. The sheer cost going over $300 is rapidly dissuading me from making the premiere purchase plus lighting kit alone.


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## CLBrown (Sep 8, 2010)

Right... you're confused. The kit we've all reserved, as part of the "1701 Club," has the extra parts (for the pilot versions), some extra paperwork and special packaging and the like, but not the photoetch, the decals, or the lighting elements (at least, that's how they've described things to date, though they could always change that!)

The "extra parts" which will come as part of the "1701 Club" kit will also be available for separate purchase. But all that the kit we've buying up-front will contain will be styrene bits and the "basic" decals.

There are three "add-on" sets. There's the aforementioned "pilot kit parts" set, which 1701-Club people won't need to buy. There's a "lighting kit." And there's a "superdetailing" kit which includes the photoetch, the "weathering decals," and possibly a few other items. It's hard to be 100% certain... I'm basing this on the "package illustrations" we've been shown, from the Wonderfest presentation given by Round2 (Youtube has it, so you can find it and watch it.)

I will absolutely be buying the "1701-Club" kit (aka the "Premier Edition"). I'll almost certainly be buying the lighting kit, but may end up modifying it and/or adding to it. My main reason for wanting it is for the engine light PCBAs and the motor rig for the "Fan blades" effect. Other lighting will likely deviate quite a bit from the kit... and I may well make modifications to the "light distribution" method used for the bussard innards, depending on how it looks while testing it out.

As for the photoetch/decal set.. . I have no idea if I'll want that or not. So yeah, that's a HUGE "what if?" for me right now. If the molded details are right... why would I need photoetch? If the photoetch actually adds, in some meaningful way, to the kit.. . that's a whole 'nother issue, of course.

The people I most expect to want the photoetch will be those who plan to light the inboard nacelle "screens." And I'm sure that the "weathering decals" will make it very easy to make a ship which, from across the room, looks just like the ship seen on-screen. But since my ship is going to vary, in subtle ways, from the "on-screen" miniature, and since I'm pretty confident of my ability to do very subtle weathering effects, I don't personally expect to need those.


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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

I'm confident enough in my good old fashioned dry brush technique that I think I'll pass on the weathering decals.

As it is, I'll probably wind up passing on the Club version and wait for the regular version in the stores. Certainly make it easier to get the lighting kit.


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## CLBrown (Sep 8, 2010)

My main reason for wanting the "Club kit" version is that I'll (supposedly) get it at least a month before the "normal" kits hit the store shelves. I guess I'm greedy that way!


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## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

The lighting kit is about the only extra I can see getting.

I'm still torn about which version to build although I am leaning toward an idealized Pike era version. That said I'm contemplating the idea of the lighted spinning nacelle caps but with the gold spikes added---could that work? What might that look like? Years ago I photoshopped it, but that's not the same as seeing it for real. Gonna have to experiment.


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## charonjr (Mar 27, 2000)

I don't know. CL, I have the same desire to get it "first". I just know that I won't be using the pilot parts, at least not right off the bat. I suppose they could be good for a kit bash. The lighting kit interests me for the same reason you stated above. I don't really care about the packaging or a "certificate of authenticity" (I think that's what it is). 

So, do I go for it? Or wait for the Production version for $50 less and put the savings toward the lighting kit? Ponder, ponder, ponder....


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## BolianAdmiral (Feb 24, 2009)

I'll hold out for the production kit... I'd be building the series version of the ship, so why not save $50 bucks doing it?


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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

The only use I'd have for the pilot parts is to go really nuts and build a spacedock diorama showing the refit into the production version. And that ain't gonna happen any time soon, I guarandamntee ya.


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## Scotty K (Mar 21, 2011)

Warped9 said:


> The lighting kit is about the only extra I can see getting.
> 
> I'm still torn about which version to build although I am leaning toward an idealized Pike era version. That said I'm contemplating the idea of the lighted spinning nacelle caps but with the gold spikes added---could that work? What might that look like? Years ago I photoshopped it, but that's not the same as seeing it for real. Gonna have to experiment.



You mean like this?










Here's the original post of a 22" that I did; maybe this will help you visualize...

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=328247


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## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

^^ Nice, but the lighting does kind of wash out the spikes, don't it?

I'll have to think more about this.


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## Scotty K (Mar 21, 2011)

Warped9 said:


> ^^ Nice, but the lighting does kind of wash out the spikes, don't it?


...which could very well be the reason that they disappeared from the production version. The spikes do seem to be a detail that gets lost, and from a visual standpoint, do seem kind of redundant.

The only reason I did it was because I could, and I was curious, too. I am happy with the build, but I think that the lit nacelles _visually_ look better without the spikes.


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## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

Well, if I do build a Pike era version then the spikes will be there. if I build a series' version then they won't be.


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## CLBrown (Sep 8, 2010)

Warped9 said:


> ^^ Nice, but the lighting does kind of wash out the spikes, don't it?
> 
> I'll have to think more about this.


Well... maybe not.

I mean, the "spikes" are there on an earlier, DIFFERENT version of the engine nacelles. The same external structure is there, for the most part... certainly the same "hull" for the nacelle, anyway... but the innards are certainly at least SOMEWHAT different, right?

So... who's to say that the "pilot bussards" need appear exactly like the "series bussards?"

If it were me, doing the "pilot bussards," I'd likely have the domes in the red/amber color, with some dull orange and yellow lamps internally, rather than the brighter lamps (including other, more vivid colors)

Is there any reason that the bussards for the pilot version, which were never seen illuminated at all, need look even remotely like the series version? Why not just say that the removal of the spikes was part of a larger retrofit for the nacelle innards, which includes LOT of changes. In MY view, they basically replaced most of the main internal elements between "WNMHGB" and the series. The only EXTERNAL indications of this include (a) the bussard (removal of the sensor spike, but also making it a much more energetic version which lights up much more brightly), the extension of the "field generation spheroid" aftwards (which makes it end up external to the original nacelle hull structure!), enhancement to the intercoolers (adding additional radiating surface area by adding a "grill" inboard of the main cooling loops), total revision of what I call the "nacelle field linkage panels" (the two areas on the SERIES version in the trenches which, as far as I'm concerned, are key to making the nacelles work in concert, and thus not rip the ship apart).

Internally, MY version of the ship had an even bigger change made than any of the above, though. The "pilot" versions carried a store of antimatter in the nacelles, but had no ability to generate antimatter. The main storage tankage (under the banner, outboard surface) was eliminated, leaving only the "pre-consumption store" (between the aft chiller panels) for storage. The space freed up by eliminating that main tankage was filled by a "spin reversal" system which actually generates antimatter on the fly... making the ship effectively entirely self-fueling (and giving it the range to go on a 5-year mission outside of explored space, not requiring bi-weekly refueling, as the ship did during Pike's time, and during Kirk's "penetration of the barrier" mission).

The latter portion is purely speculative on my part. The other stuff is "canon," of course.

But... remember, what you're proposing is purely speculative too. So... as far as I'm concerned... come up with an appearance which DOES work with the spikes. Make it as different from the series appearance as you want to, in order to make it look "right" to you.

There IS no "canon" answer for "what did the pilot nacelle domes look like... unless you leave them entirely unlit. Light them however seems best to you!


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## charonjr (Mar 27, 2000)

IIRC: one of reasons for losing the spikes when the ship was converted to the lit version had to do with inaccuracy of the blue screen mattes they pulled. Such a fine detail, like the spikes and the little probe on the bottom of the planetary sensor dome, was lost due to the matte lines covering them too much. 

There's no reason not to light your domes and have the spikes. I kinda wonder if adding a red led/fiberoptic source to the tip of the spike might help?


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