# ?



## super lates (Jan 10, 2011)

What is the turn of a 3300 brushless motor? 13.5?


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## NoMercyRC (Nov 2, 2010)

what brand is the motor.


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## super lates (Jan 10, 2011)

Its a b4 buggy brushless motor.


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## ta_man (Apr 10, 2005)

super lates said:


> Its a b4 buggy brushless motor.


If it is this motor: http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXZMW7

it is probably not a 13.5. That is a sensorless motor. If I were to guess, my guess would be about 6 turns. The reason for my guess is that a Tekin Redline sensorless 6 turn motor is 3200KV so the 3300 is close enough that it coudl also be a 6 turn.


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## 4ThePinkRacing (Apr 30, 2010)

ta_man said:


> If it is this motor: http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXZMW7
> 
> it is probably not a 13.5. That is a sensorless motor. If I were to guess, my guess would be about 6 turns. The reason for my guess is that a Tekin Redline sensorless 6 turn motor is 3200KV so the 3300 is close enough that it coudl also be a 6 turn.


mos times the higher the KV the more turns .. IE 10,500 KV is novaks 3.5 turn 

so to me its a sandard across the board ... 

3300 is around a 13.5 turn .. 

2200 is 17.5 

novak has a spec page but not able to find it right this moment .. 

to find the rpms of a motor KV times VOLTS = RPMS 

so 3300 times say 8 volts is 26,400 RPMS 
IE 13.5 

a 6.5 is around 6500 KV give or take not remember off hand 

but i could be wrong


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## ta_man (Apr 10, 2005)

4ThePinkRacing said:


> mos times the higher the KV the *more turns* .. IE 10,500 KV is novaks 3.5 turn
> 
> so to me its a sandard across the board ...


First off, you statement was backward even though your example was good: the higher the KV the *lower* the turns.

Second off


4ThePinkRacing said:


> but i could be wrong


you are wrong because the "rule" you stated and the numbers you quoted only apply if you consider only one type of motor (novak style slotted 3 pole motors). For instance the Castle SCT motor is 3800KV but is 1-turn (*ONE*-turn). Also note that the new Castle 1406 series motors come in KV ratings from 4600 to 7700 but they are all one turn motors. So there is more than just number of turns that goes into the KV rating.

The O.P. said the motor was from a b4 Brushless buggy. I specifically pointed to the Reedy motor that comes stock in the B4 brushless buggies. They are not Novak style sensored motors and do not have the same relationship between KV and turns.

If it was a Novak style motor, not the Reedy motor I referenced, it probably is a 13.5.


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## 4ThePinkRacing (Apr 30, 2010)

ta_man said:


> First off, you statement was backward even though your example was good: the higher the KV the *lower* the turns.
> 
> Second off
> 
> ...


i would love to see a 1 turn motor .. no such a thing .. never seen nor heard of one ... 

2nd turns is in relation to KV the higher the KV the lower turn true but no way do u have a 3300 KV a 1 turn motor i would need proof of that one .. 

and lowest i seen a motor is 2.5 turns this is in brushless not brushed ..

and that 2.5 turn si around 11,500 KV 

so not sure where your reading this info from but please post so i can see this ... 


to date higher KV is LOWER TURN 


anyone else knwo what this taman is talkin about please tell me .. not say bad or good but something is way way way off here .. or miss lead or missunderstood 


a 2200 KV is 2200 kv and its 17.5 turn so on no mater who makes it ... 

same as a 27turn brushed is 27turn no mater who makes it 

but please post links to prove me wrong so i learn and know what is spokin of here thanks


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## ta_man (Apr 10, 2005)

4ThePinkRacing said:


> i would love to see a 1 turn motor .. no such a thing .. never seen nor heard of one ...


Sorry but you appear to know nothing of the world of brushless motors outside of Novak style motors.

Look at this page: http://www.castlecreations.com/products/nc1406.html

Look at the fine print on the side of one of the motors pictured: the one on the left says "1406-1Y 4600KV" In Neu-Castle motor terminology that is a motor with a 1.4" diameter Stator (the "14" in the 1406) and a 0.6" (six tenths inch) long rotor. The "1Y" means it is a ONE-TURN "Wye" wound motor. Look here for an explanation of Wye vs Delta winding of Brushless motors: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brushless_dc_motor -and this picture: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Wye-delta.svg

Then look closely at this picture and you will see that is is a 1410-1Y 3800KV motor:








...now you have seen a one turn motor.



4ThePinkRacing said:


> a 2200 KV is 2200 kv and its 17.5 turn so on no mater who makes it ...
> 
> same as a 27turn brushed is 27turn no mater who makes it


True 2200Kv is 2200KV and 27 turn is 27 turn, but KV is not turns. KV is how many RPMs the motor will turn for each 1V applied to it. The best illustration that KV is not turns is the four motors in that pic from the castle web site all have the same number of turns but different KV. There are factors other than turns that affect KV. In the case of the 1406 motors, the length of the stator (inside the can, where you can't see it) is different (among other factors not fully decribed in detail by the president of Castle Creations in a post on RC-Monster.com)

And 2200KV is not a 17.5. The Castle 1515 1Y motor is 2200KV but again, only one turn.

BTW, the Castle CM36 motor in 4600KV is 4 turns. So you have two 4600KV motors from the same company, approximately the same size (the 1406 is a little shorter) that have a different number of turns. Again: KV is not turns, turns is not KV.

Now you know.


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## 4ThePinkRacing (Apr 30, 2010)

now iam getitn a persnoal atack and i didnt atack u i asked to show me and so on .. so with that said i well read what u posted but i well stay with what i know and i used novak as example ... trinty and others also use the same rating read up ... 

iam done with this chat and postin in this thread 

not once did i atack you and u atack me .. goodbye buckwheat

PS... your links prove nothing ....... not one proof of ing to prove your right ... my with what i know and i well call all of the company myself and ask them for a web site per company and then post them 


3300 KVnothing has been shown or proven its 1 wire 1y can meen anything .. and iam 98% sure iam right ....

so if you wish to prove give a site link with specs on it ... not your word and a link to nothing .... your links show nothing ... nothing at alll buckwheat

doesnt mater if you where right and didnt atack me as u did i wouldnt mind sayin yep your rite but now i dont care .... end of thread to me i knwo what i know and ill stay with it .. 

to bad buckwheat ... would be nice chat for people to learn thigns but u turn it around and bash me goodbye


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## ta_man (Apr 10, 2005)

Observing that you didn't know something wasn't intended as a personal attack. If you took it that way I am sorry.



4ThePinkRacing said:


> 3300 KVnothing has been shown or proven its 1 wire *1y can meen anything* .. and iam 98% sure iam right ....


Sure it _could_ mean anything. So call Castle Creations tech support and ask them and they will tell you what it _does mean_ is a one turn Wye wound motor.

The phone number is on their web site. Or go to Tower Hobbies and look at a Castle product Then got to the "Browse Castle" link and you will find their phone number. If I gave you the link you would probably think I faked it somehow. If I gave you the phone number you would probably think I was faking that too. So find it yourself.


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## nutz4rc (Oct 14, 2003)

Ta Man is not a person who does personal attacks. He is very knowledgeable and I am not saying this because he is a friend or I personally know him. I just know that he is a great person to turn to for info.

He helped me out some time ago on Hobby Talk when I first tried 1/8th scale electric buggy but couldn't get anyone local to go with me into the then new type of racing. His info was right on target.

He is absolutely correct in stating that there are no set in stone rules for brushless motors between manufactures. Different manufacturers and different types of motors make comparisons very difficult.


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## 4ThePinkRacing (Apr 30, 2010)

called mamba that part number for that motor is a 13.5 rougly soooooo tell mamba there wrong .. take care 


end of chat for me


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## markd5469 (Aug 24, 2008)

As I understand it, the "turns" rating of a 1/10 brushless motor is a "relative" or approximate equivalent turns in a brushed motor in RPM.

kv is exactly that: 
k (1,000 rpms) per v (volt DC). 

When Roar set some standards for brushless spec-motor racing classes, they applied some kv settings to a "turns" rating. Novak, Tekin, Trinity, etc. all abide by those kv to equiv. turns. Castle is a wild-card company, who had lots of sensorless brushless motors sold before ROAR set their standards, and before Tekin ever made a brushless motor. They (Castle) were (originally) the "high-speed-run" rc source for brushless motors. Look at their web-site and read the descriptions. No Castle sensorless motor matches kv with any ROAR motor.

http://www.teamnovak.com/products/brushless/motor_spec_chart.htm 
That's Novak's brushless motor spec chart. I keep it bookmarked so I can double check when I'm looking at "off-brand" motors. When you get into the off-brand motors out of the far East (Xerun, EazyRun, etc), you cannot accept their "turn" rating. They lie. Compare their kv rating to see what you are really getting. I'm not saying they are bad, but you cannot trust their "turn" rating, because they don't care what ROAR says, and they are not tested by anyone before that rating is assigned.

No reason for anyone to get their feelings hurt. The whole "turns" thing has nothing to do with the actual number of turns of wire in the stator. It is an attempt to help former brushed motor racers understand the differences, before we understood the kv-rating issue.

Now for the original question, sure, run the AE 3300 sensorless brushless with your 10.5 motor classes. That should work out fine. It has at our track.


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## ta_man (Apr 10, 2005)

markd5469 said:


> As I understand it, the "turns" rating of a 1/10 brushless motor is a "relative" or approximate equivalent turns in a brushed motor in RPM.
> 
> kv is exactly that:
> k (1,000 rpms) per v (volt DC).
> ...


Sorry to break your bubble but when Novak states that a motor is "17.5 turns" it means exactly that: each pole is wound with 17.5 turns of wire. It is not an approximation and it has nothing to do with relating it to the turns of a brushed motor. A brushless motor stator is wound with turns of wire, not KVs. (Assuming slotted type stator here otherwise there is nothing to wind the wire "around" - but turns still applies in that case too.) You know the exact number of turns as a result of manufacturing the motor. The KVs are measured after the motor is completed with the specified number of turns. Also note that KVs can change with a change in rotor (among other things), but that does not change the number of "turns" in the motor.

I'm not going to debate whether the asian manufactures are as diligent as Novak, etc when it comes to quality control on number of turns, but ROAR approved 17.5 turn motors have to have exactly 17.5 turns of wire per pole. Same with the 10.5 turn, 13.5 turn, 21.5 turn, and 25.5 turn motors.

You should ask the pan car oval guys if actual number of turns matters. You won't believe the strength of their opinions on this issue.


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## dano628 (Dec 13, 2006)

When it comes to anything electrical you should listen to TA man I have known him a long time and believe me he knows what he is talking about . I don't know anything about brushless motors I am just a loud and dirty nitro guy BUT when I need information about brushless motors I go to him .


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## 4ThePinkRacing (Apr 30, 2010)

mark good reading but ta knows all and u well never prove him wrong .. he is one of them has to be right guys even when wrong ... 

wrong or right this is old .. i gave up caring long time ago .. someone shouldl delate this thread and let it die .. 

we all know it all and noone is wrong .. hows that .... no set standard in the brushless world .. so forget it ta knows it all .. yep i hate to be this way but god its old


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