# Building a "real" TOS shuttlecraft?



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

Tangental to my *TOS shuttlecraft* thread wherein I'm drawing up schematics for the shuttlecraft that integrates the three disparate versions of the ship we saw onscreen into one integrated vehicle, I've had the idea in the back of my mind of how cool it would be to build a "real" shuttlecraft, using my drawings as the basic plans.

By "real" I mean fullsize "working" replica with complete exterior/interior and lights and sound and everything. Something folks could clamber into and around and be photographed with.

Yes, it's insane and totally impractical and would cost a fortune to do authentically. But it would rock, particularly if it could be trucked around to conventions. Or even if it just had a permanent place of display that folks could come see.

Oh, well, it's nice to dream. Maybe if I win the lottery one day and could then afford to be an _uber_fan. :lol:


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

If it's worth dreaming about, it's at least worth doing the numbers. The only way to turn a dream into reality is have a plan. The blueprints are the real bear and you've got them down. Next step, ballpark your costs and materials. 

That can't hurt, and will bring your vision closer to reality, whether you win the lottery, or determine that it really wouldn't be an 'imaginary' fortune, but a realistically budgetable project spanning however much time, effort and treasure to accomplish.

Of course, if you hit the lottery, you are ready on day 1.


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## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

The real trick if it could happen would be to recreate all those distinctive looking parts, like the seats. And getting the access hatch to work as depicted onscreen.


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## X15-A2 (Jan 21, 2004)

The seats are actually pretty straight forward to make and the door is not that big of a deal (as long as you leave a reasonable wall thickness, 6 inches or more being best). Costs would be large because they not only include the basic construction but transport as well. The TOS mock up was an oversize load which means that you need city permits to move it on public streets (I have no idea how much that costs or what limitations they would place on the move itself but you can bet that every city is different) and it was as small as anyone would ever build it. Then you need to transport the removable parts which are not small either (or light, depending on how they are built). The engine pods are about 14 feet long on the TOS version, longer on any enlarged design. Then there is handling to consider, how does one get the main hull into position and then position the pods for mounting? If the main hull is on a trailer, does it stay on it or does it come off? If it is to be removed, how does one support it while the trailer is removed? How are the pods unloaded and positioned for mounting? Fork lift or custom dolly/lift?

A project of this type involves much much more than the construction of the mock up itself. I'm not throwing cold water on any such project, just pointing out some of the many considerations that might not be immediately obvious. I gave this a great deal of thought myself because I had the opportunity to buy the original mock up. In the end, it worked out to about $8,000 just to move it, not counting purchase price, and I just couldn't afford it. Then came the costs of storage, followed by the costs of restoration...

If you ever want ideas about the seats or doors, just let me know and I'll be glad to put my two-cents in.

Phil


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## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

^^ Seems like the best idea would be to build it and keep it in one place.

Who knows? Wouldn't it be a kick for Trek fans to make a "pilgrimage" just to see the shuttlecraft? :lol:


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

Occams's Razor.


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## Opus Penguin (Apr 19, 2004)

Phil,

Any idea where the original is now? Last I heard it was in LaJolla CA. However that was 20 years ago. I remember seeing it at the 20th anniversary of Star Trek in 1986. A group was in the process of restoring it and I actually got to see it in person. They were asking for donactions as they were working on getting an interior built. I haven't heard anymore about it since.


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

I was sent this link just yesterday, Opus...

http://www.trekplace.com/article11.html


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## scotpens (Sep 6, 2003)

Warped9 said:


> ^^ Seems like the best idea would be to build it and keep it in one place.
> 
> Who knows? Wouldn't it be a kick for Trek fans to make a "pilgrimage" just to see the shuttlecraft? :lol:


[IMG-LEFT]http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/attachment.php?attachmentid=74908&stc=1&d=1233205601[/IMG-LEFT]


If you build it,
they will come.


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## CessnaDriver (Apr 27, 2005)

Opus Penguin said:


> Phil,
> 
> Any idea where the original is now? Last I heard it was in LaJolla CA. However that was 20 years ago. I remember seeing it at the 20th anniversary of Star Trek in 1986. A group was in the process of restoring it and I actually got to see it in person. They were asking for donactions as they were working on getting an interior built. I haven't heard anymore about it since.


I asked this question almost five years ago and a rather long thread has been in existance ever since.....

http://propreplicas.yuku.com/topic/7476?page=1


Bottom line, until the current owners go public.
It's lost.


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## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

I believe Phil _may_ be able to shed a _bit _more light on the Galileo's current status, but the gist of it coincides with the info found via the link posted by Model Man.


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## CessnaDriver (Apr 27, 2005)

I started another thread here just to get everyone interested looking at the same pages...

http://www.trekpropzone.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=5311&hl=


I wouldn't expect the owners to say hey here it is in my garage.
Some pics and anonymous posting online doesn't give anything away.


Info is at least four years old.

Could have changed hands again by then.


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

I was going to keep this a secret until I won the lottery, but here's my idea...

About 25 years ago when a bunch of us were playing the ST RPG, I thought about how to build a lifesize 1701T. Mostly underground so that you wouldn't have to worry about gravity. It's a tens of millions of dollars project to do even a moderate amount of work needed. The beauty of being underground is that you don't have to worry about the external half of the ship or gravity of a dispersed structure. 

About ten years ago, I decided that should I ever have the open land and a few hundred thousand for a home, I would build a 1/1 Falcon and live in that. I've been widely derided for that notion. But I would still do it in a heartbeat.

About 5 years ago, a vision of a theme park hit me. A place with full size spaceships and sets. Networked Viper/cylon, xwing/TIE simulators would be a main draw. Wandering the sets would be another draw. For additional draw and income, you could also have a few standards such as roller coasters, though perhaps w/ a sci-fi tweaking.

I haven't come up w/ a name, I only have mental half-sketches of the grounds and I have not done a single equation of market research; but if anyone does this before me, I want free admission for the idea.  Seriously!

I don't know how much it costs to conjure a theme park into existence, but I can see a $100 million if not 250. Start smaller and expand is the way I see it. A few fighter craft and sims, working up to the capitol ships. Getting the licenses out of the tight-fist studios is the only true hurdle. Cash flows thence. Especially if it's shared amongst as many studios as possible.

Heck, if it started today, you could buy a real space shuttle as the first attraction w/ a real-space tie in as well.

The market exists. The only thing needed is a team to put the numbers together and get the financing started. 

As was said, 'build it and they will come.' This one is a winner.


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## Lou Dalmaso (Jul 13, 2004)

It would be neat if you could find a way to partner up with James Cawley's group. It seems like having a full sized shuttle to film with would be a good thing for him. and you could use it the rest of the time.

just a thought


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## X15-A2 (Jan 21, 2004)

Here are the last known details of the Shuttlecraft mock up whereabouts (as of 2008):

The woman who owned it had it moved to a sand blasting company in Akron, Ohio. She wanted to have some work done on it but eventually it became clear to the owner of the company that she was not coming back, they never heard from her again and could not reach her via the phone number she left with them.

The mock up sat in their storage yard for over 5 years with no one coming forward to claim it. Finally, I was contacted by a local fan who stumbled across it by accident when he went to that company and who suggested that it needed to be "rescued". Well, he was right but there were so many issues and costs involved that I could not see any practical way to do it.

Last year the company went out of business and their property was cleared out, the Shuttlecraft disappeared at this time. It is not known if the original owner came and got it or if some other fans rescued it or if it was bulldozed. More than likely it was demolished.

It is still visible on Google Earth but only as a Ghost:










Closer:











Sad.


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

What a tortured life. 
RIP, Gal.

Kinda adds imperative for Galileo III...


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## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

Thanks for posting those shots, Phil.

Seems likely the Galileo has joined the Proteus, the Jupiter 2 and the Apes ship in 60's full-scale sci-fi vehicle heaven.

RIP indeed.


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## CessnaDriver (Apr 27, 2005)

Uh...

F***!

HOW THE HELL COULD THIS HAPPEN??

In the era of the damn internet with like a BILLION Trek forums nobody made this public?
Nobody put it on EBAY!!!!!!!!!!


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## CessnaDriver (Apr 27, 2005)

We don't even know if someone even got it?

Seriously???


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## CessnaDriver (Apr 27, 2005)

Oh and they didn't even bother to COVER IT with like a twenty dollar plastic tarp from Wallymart?

Man.
The freekin' TOS Enterprise is in the Smithsonian valued at God knows how much.

And this is left to be mishandled and rot.... AGAIN!

Yeah I know the wood was replaced but it really is unfathomable to me to let an iconic orginal prop ship get treated like this.

Paul Allen might have had some small interest no?

Sorry to vent but there was no reason this had to go like it did at all.


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## Scorpitat (Oct 7, 2004)

Oh my god!!

We save multiple copies of the freakin' "General Lee", from Dukes of Hazzard, so it can be seen and appreciated, but we let this icon of science fiction wizardry rot away, left to who knows what demise? 

In the words of Doctor Smith......

"OH, the Pain...............THE PAIN!"

I hope other pieces of sci-fi memories don't go the way of this poor craft. I mean, save the Chariot from Lost in Space, and the Original Batmobile, but please...Please, include the Galileo! Someone find out the true location or ending of her.....PLEASE??

Sincerely,
Scorp.

"Boldly GO!" :woohoo:


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## CessnaDriver (Apr 27, 2005)

RPF folks are giving it a shot....

http://www.therpf.com/showthread.php?t=56868


Cross your fingers.


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## Atemylunch (Jan 16, 2006)

Wow, talk about a moron. I'll just leave it with these guys, maybe I'll go get it sometime. When it could have been put on E-bay(5 years ago, that would have fetched a good price), with the condition that whoever bought it come and get it. Pocketed $50,000-150,000+ for an original ST prop. This person could have bought a house, and still had money in the bank. And the Shuttle would be in the hands of a collector, or even displayed in Seattle. But it would be preserved. 

But no, some people have better things to do than make money. (That would have been easy money.)


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## X15-A2 (Jan 21, 2004)

Some further explanations:

Your various reactions are understandable but ill-informed. Nobody could legally "sell" the Shuttlecraft to anyone because the owner-of-record could not be located. Sure, it could have been sold and it might even have been saved but it might just as well have landed the "seller" in a legal mess. Paul Allen? I'm just guessing here but I imagine that he would only buy it if the sale constituted a legal transfer of title. The guy who ran the sand blasting company might have put a lien against it for back storage fees or even claimed it out-right for the same reason but why would he go to that legal trouble for a worthless piece of junk?

In the end, this is one of the big reasons (beyond the sheer cost) that I did not go get it myself. I did not want to spend $15,000+ dollars to obtain and restore it just to have it taken away in legal action by the real owner.

And I should include that, to their credit, the fellows at the sand blasting company were in fact covering it during the winter months but the tarps would rot off.

Also, the Smithsonian has never wanted the "Star Trek" items in their collection and have always been embarrassed by them. Only in the last few years have they begun to see that there "might" be some reason for them to be in their collection but you've all seen the "esteemed" manner in which they are treated. The Big "E" is hidden in the gift shop (!) and the other items are not even on display.

You should also know that the Shuttlecraft was offered to the Smithsonian by Roger Heisman back in the late '70s but they made it clear that they were not interested.

A sad story to be sure but that is life sometimes.


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

Maybe the scrap yard owner or an employee towed it off. Ya never know until you track the employees down. There is certainly legal precedent for them to have seized it as collateral to cover potential storage fees (were any being charged). And even further precedent to claim it if efforts to locate the rightful owner failed over whatever the legitimate amount of time is (like '30 days' for lost and found). This was clearly (from here at least) outright abandonment of property. 'Junk' property no less. Finders keepers is the rule now should it be uncovered. But it's probably cheaper and safer to simply build a new one using superior, modern materials and techniques

Yeah 1701 belongs in a museum, but the Smith is the wrong place for it. I don't know of any other museum that it would belong at though -maybe Khun Global can acquire it!


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## X15-A2 (Jan 21, 2004)

Oddly enough, the place for the model of the Big "E" should be the "other" Smithsonian museum, the one containing the American cultural history collection. It has a huge collection of American "pop culture" items where it would readily fit in. Few other artifacts are as important to pop culture as this model is.

Oh well, such is life.


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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

I know Wings Over The Rockies would love to have it.


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## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

Sadly, back in the day once a show was done then the sets and props had pretty much zero value except for those few who might be interested. Today we have decades of interest in the artifacts of popular culture that give such things a better chance of survival and preservation.

I suppose the best way to construct a durable fullsize replica would be with a metal framework since I imagine it would be less inclined to warp (no pun intended) because of moisture or humidity.

Does anyone know what the original exterior mockup was made of and how?


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## Ductapeforever (Mar 6, 2008)

I have read in the past that the original prop was built from plywood with funds provided by then AMT Corp. of Dyersville, Iowa. for the rights to market the model kit.


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## X15-A2 (Jan 21, 2004)

The original mock up was a square tube welded lower frame work with pine formers making up most of the upper structure (there were a few places where the metal frame extended into the upper part of the main hull, primarily to support the door mechanism). The outer skin was made of Masonite, the curved upper and lower edges of the hull side-plates being sheet metal constructions. The warp nacelles were heavy steel tubes, the wings and pylons being made of square tube welded frames covered with sheet metal except for the top skin of each wing, which were made of Masonite instead. I seem to remember most of the Masonite part of the hull having a thin coating of fiberglass as well. Grills were made of sheet metal, hatch openings were wood. The Impulse exhaust panel with the holes cut into it was made of plexiglass. The structural frames with the circular lightening holes under each pylon and wing assembly were sheet steel, about 1/4 or 3/8ths of an inch thick. Although heavily tinted, the small windows in the upper hatch panels were glass and could be seen through. The main windows had no glass and were either shown closed with solid Masonite panels in place or as open holes.

I can answer further questions if you like, I remember it quite well.

Phil


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## CessnaDriver (Apr 27, 2005)

I am rather surprised that someone hasn't tried to build another by now.


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## Atemylunch (Jan 16, 2006)

CessnaDriver said:


> I am rather surprised that someone hasn't tried to build another by now.


It's size is the biggest limitation in building another one. The cloudster site has what looks like take-offs(measurements) of the of the original prop, even the chairs. With that info it wouldn't be hard to recreate it. Just a lot of work. 

Hey, Phil you wouldn't by chance know the Phoenix address of the long gone "AMT Custom & Speed Shop"?


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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

If they had enough sense to try and keep it covered, then somebody had to have enough sense to haul it away somewhere.

At least that's what I'll try to hold onto until proven otherwise.

The thought of the ol' girl being bulldozed, especially after all the restoration work that had been done, is just too depressing.


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## mactrek (Mar 30, 2004)

CessnaDriver said:


> I am rather surprised that someone hasn't tried to build another by now.


Starship Farragut has a full scale interior built:










We did make certain corrections to the interior set ... like the angle of the forward bulkhead ... but other than that, it's as close to the original as you will find anywhere.

The chairs weren't ready for filming at the time this image was taken, so we had to compromise a little bit ... but I think it turned out all right.

The set debuted in the "Crew Log" (or short film) "A Rock and a Hard Place" which can be downloaded or viewed at http://starshipfarragut.com.

Pictures of the construction are available on Farragut's forum (which does require registration).


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## CessnaDriver (Apr 27, 2005)

Birds eye view on Zillow.com gives you views from ALL angles.
Just skew over to the yard...

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/birds-eye-view-map/35448274_zpid/#birds-eye-view


Now, were sure that is the metal frame too right?
Not just a wood shell from the last restoration?
Where are the nacelles?


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## CessnaDriver (Apr 27, 2005)

mactrek said:


> Starship Farragut has a full scale interior built:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Boy that makes you realize just how out of scale the interior was from the full size.

To fit the interior set into a full size shuttlecraft would probably require increasing the size by a third I bet! 

JUMBO shuttlecraft.


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## hal9001 (May 28, 2008)

I say you should do it! Yep, you should, it's only money. That way _I_ can actually sit in _THE_ Galileo.

But I'd much rather sit on the bridge of the Enterprise...

Live long and...ah, you know the rest.


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## The IDIC Page (Oct 20, 2000)

X15-A2 said:


> Here are the last known details of the Shuttlecraft mock up whereabouts (as of 2008)...


Hello Phil,

Long time...nice update, hope there's a happy ending.

William


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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

Any chance of a return of those IDIC Pages any time soon? I really miss that resource.


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## The IDIC Page (Oct 20, 2000)

Captain April said:


> Any chance of a return of those IDIC Pages any time soon? I really miss that resource.


Very likely it will return, but not anytime soon. It would require quite a bit of work to put it back together (in a format and scope that I would want) and I don't have a lotta free time at the moment. Thanks for the note.

William


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

I'll second Cpt. April in appreciation of the idic page. I went looking for it the other week and found it was wiped away. Thanks for this great resource. Please make a special announcement when you have the new address.

LL&P


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## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

Yeah William, I'd feel downright remiss if I didn't also voice my appreciation for your pioneering sci-fi website efforts. Along with guys like Phil Broad, Steve Iverson and Charles Adams (among others) you brought a new frontier of reference data to light, providing us rank`n-file Trek modelers with a beloved and invaluable resource. 

Sorry to hijack the thread even further than it was already was, but having spent many an hour scouring the IDIC site over the years I simply wanted to say thanks for the pix.


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## scotpens (Sep 6, 2003)

There have been a few attempts at building a full-scale, driveable, street-legal version of the old cheesebox, but the results have been somewhat less than accurate.


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## X15-A2 (Jan 21, 2004)

Hi William,

Good to hear from you again. I didn't realize that the IDIC pages were no more, that is a real loss. If you'd like info for a web host that offers unlimited space (really "unlimited", unlike some hosts who offer you a few MB and call that "unlimited") at a cheap price, just let me know and I'll fix you up.


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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

AOL, for some unknown reason, decided to kill off all of the members' webpages, which, unfortunately, included the IDIC pages.

I'm just glad I got all of my pics saved before they pulled the plug. If I had a fullsize working computer, I'd have saved a heap more pics, especially from the IDIC pages.


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## CessnaDriver (Apr 27, 2005)

It lives on at internet archive, loads slow, not sure if all the pics show up, might help for putting it back together though...

http://web.archive.org/web/20060215023247/members.aol.com/idicpage/main.html


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## megabot11 (Aug 3, 2008)

a plethora of full size Galileo pics here

http://www.cloudster.com/Sets&Vehicles/STShuttlecraft/GalileoTop.htm


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## X15-A2 (Jan 21, 2004)

/\/\ Hee hee!

:wave:


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## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

You know if one takes a long view of this kind of project then it could be within reach.

If you don't intend to haul the thing around much or at all and have a place to store it then you could conceivably construct it as a long term project much like others build kit cars, kit planes and their own power or sail boats. You spread the costs over a long period of time.

Hmmmm....


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## scotpens (Sep 6, 2003)

And you could become a local celebrity, and have all the neighbors know you as "that crazy guy who's building a spaceship in his garage."


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## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

scotpens said:


> And you could become a local celebrity, and have all the neighbors know you as "that crazy guy who's building a spaceship in his garage."


_Cooool!_ :thumbsup:

Can you imagine the talk at the local hangouts?

_"Hey, man. Have you seen Jimmy's new ride?"

"That's nothin.' Have you seen that crazy old guy's Trek spaceship? Now that's freakin' sweet!" The damn thing looks like it could even fly._ :lol:


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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

CessnaDriver said:


> It lives on at internet archive, loads slow, not sure if all the pics show up, might help for putting it back together though...
> 
> http://web.archive.org/web/20060215023247/members.aol.com/idicpage/main.html


The text lives on, but not the pictures.


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## CessnaDriver (Apr 27, 2005)

Captain April said:


> The text lives on, but not the pictures.


I still get a lot of pics loading.


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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

So, any updates?


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

I think we should all build much more reasonable full sized spaceships, say, Uncle Martin's from MFM and keep it in the garage and make a point of never telling anyone about it nor letting anyone see it for fear of being found out.


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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

Think this might help?


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## KUROK (Feb 2, 2004)

Funny!


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## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

FYI, I updated my Flickr set with a previously unpublished shot of the full-scale mock-up (check out the last image in the set)...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/sets/72157627363392678/

I took the photo in 1976, at which point the shuttle was owned by a neighbor in Palos Verdes, CA.


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