# Round 2 pics from Wonderfest 2010



## DinoMike (Jan 1, 1970)

Some of the Round 2 shtuff from the Fest:










New boarding ramp for the Klingon Bird of Prey reissue.










New landing gear wells for the Klingon Bird.










Landing gear pads from the Klingon Bird.










K-7 Space Station with new decals










Pilgrim Observer station, Romulan Bird of Prey with upgraded parts and decals, and K-7










1/25 scale 1966 Batmobile prototype


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## JGG1701 (Nov 9, 2004)

Looks great!
But I don't see a Klingon ship to go with the K-7.
-Jim


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

W00t!!!!


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## Magesblood (May 12, 2008)

look at that Romulan bird of prey! A thing of beauty!


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## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

Yep. That RBOP looks pretty cool!


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

Great to see those, especially the 1/25 Batmobile. I didn't realise it was coming with figures. Cool!


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## PixelMagic (Aug 25, 2004)

No mock up preview of the JJprise yet?


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## Fozzie (May 25, 2009)

Jim Small did his usual excellent job on the Romulan BOP. Sweet! Can't wait to get my hands on one of those.


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## DinoMike (Jan 1, 1970)

PixelMagic said:


> No mock up preview of the JJprise yet?


 None at Wonderfest.


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## Fozzie (May 25, 2009)

Looking at the pics a little closer, it appears to say "Q4 2010" for the Romulan BOP and Pilgrim Observer and "Q2 2010" for the K-7.

I, too, was hoping for a tiny Klingon ship to go with the K-7.

And, finally, I've never built one of the Klingon BOP kits, but I'm pretty sure I'm going to get one of these new ones. How long will it be, I wonder, before tiny crewman are available to go at the end of that gangplank?


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## derric1968 (Jun 13, 2003)

PixelMagic said:


> No mock up preview of the JJprise yet?


I was reading a post (on another board, I think) from someone who talked to the guys at Round 2. He was told this one has been delayed again. Apparently, Round 2 is trying to use the studio's 3D model to create the kit, and the process has been troublesome. Looks like the nuEnterprise is getting pushed to 2011, perhaps even mid-2011. Maybe Jamie (Phantom Stranger) would like to offer some official clarification here???

At this rate, the model should be released just in time for the Trek sequel. 

Hey, did anybody take the Round 2 survey this year? I'm curious what questions were on it.


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## Zombie_61 (Apr 21, 2004)

JGG1701 said:


> But I don't see a Klingon ship to go with the K-7.
> -Jim





Fozzie said:


> I, too, was hoping for a tiny Klingon ship to go with the K-7.


Didn't the original K-7 kit come with a miniature U.S.S. Enterprise (in scale with the station), or am I thinking of another kit?


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## Fozzie (May 25, 2009)

Zombie_61 said:


> Didn't the original K-7 kit come with a miniature U.S.S. Enterprise (in scale with the station), or am I thinking of another kit?


Yes. And this repop does too. That's why everyone was hoping they'd also throw in a tiny Klingon ship to go with it.


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## falcondesigns (Oct 30, 2002)

You mean that little thing at the base in the first picture of the station?


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## jbond (Aug 29, 2002)

The mini K-7 Enterprise is HORRIBLE. Enjoy for nostalgia purposes only. There are a number of other kit versions of the ship that are probably closer in scale to the K-7 and certainly far more accurate than that little thing.


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## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

Yeah. The little Enterprise that came with the K-7 kit from when I was a kid was a joke to be sure. Still, with some filing, puttying, and sanding I imagine one could make it look presentable.


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## PhantomStranger (Apr 20, 2009)

derric1968 said:


> I was reading a post (on another board, I think) from someone who talked to the guys at Round 2. He was told this one has been delayed again. Apparently, Round 2 is trying to use the studio's 3D model to create the kit, and the process has been troublesome. Looks like the nuEnterprise is getting pushed to 2011, perhaps even mid-2011. Maybe Jamie (Phantom Stranger) would like to offer some official clarification here???
> 
> At this rate, the model should be released just in time for the Trek sequel.
> 
> Hey, did anybody take the Round 2 survey this year? I'm curious what questions were on it.


We're still working on it an hope to heaven to still have it out by the end of the year. At this point I can't say it will be though. We are on the verge of cracking through our issues though so we should know one way or the other soon.

I'll see if there is some way we can post our questionnaire on our website or blog for everyone to print and mail in if you'd like. I'll say for sure when I do my show wrap up blog post.


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## jaws62666 (Mar 25, 2009)

What was the word on the Star trek snap kits. The site says June now. Are the on track for june or maybe earlier. I want the C ,D and E all in that smaller scale. Are they about the same size as the 1/1000 refit.


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

My memory may fade on some points here or there, but that lil' 1701 is definitely for nostalgic-sentiment-only in these days and ages. It was poor 40yrs ago, it's utterly destitute today. 

As to scale, it's more like 'perceived scale' than in-scale. As it looked very small in all the shots, I don't think AMT took into account it was orbiting at a distance, rather they saw it flying directly above the station. Flying above the station, it is likely in-scale to what was on screen. But def. not to scale with the reality _behind_ the screen.

Glad K-7 is imminent. I think the 1/1000 kits are closer to scale. Griffworks has the numbers, I was led to understand.

Good to see the Great Bird there. Still not right, but it will be a boon for one or two after-marketeers looking to make a few bucks with better engines and tail fin. Maye it's possible to create a drop-on perimeter that had the correct angle for the side walls and the 'double-rim surface' on the top of the hull.

That pilgrim observer -i want several! That looks to be a superb source kit for easy scratch building! Lots of design flavors -Space1999, space odyssey, a little trek and all star wars all over.

I've never been a kbop fan, but the new tweaks could persuade me to buy the kit. It would be a good one to light up. But at 1/350, it can't be more than a few inches across, no? The ship never once struck me as 'big'. It's like, 10 crew, right?

....
Trimmed comment per Spockr's clarification below.


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## Magesblood (May 12, 2008)

If the bird of prey is actually where its depicted in the top picture, it would be far aft of the Enterprise.

Of course, STIII established the size of the bird of prey so I guess it could be called accurate. Another theory is that the Klingons have different sizes and classes of it. It would have to be big enough to fit a couple of whales inside it along with the water.

It surely is smaller than the Enterprise's secondary hull. For only having about 12 Klingons on board, it's kind of a waste of space. You know, the bigger something is, the heavier it is and the more energy it would take to drive it from place to place.


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## Spockr (Sep 14, 2009)

A most thorough dissertation about the size paradox of the Klingon BOP may be found here:

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/articles/bop-size.htm


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## PhantomStranger (Apr 20, 2009)

jaws62666 said:


> What was the word on the Star trek snap kits. The site says June now. Are the on track for june or maybe earlier. I want the C ,D and E all in that smaller scale. Are they about the same size as the 1/1000 refit.


In the case of these kits, we've been having trouble with fit issues. (they are all snap kits now) That and being foolish enough to try release four kits with aztec decals (7 sheets total, hundreds of decals) all at the same time stubbed us as well.


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## cozmo (Nov 29, 2004)

Model Man said:


> My memory may fade on some points here or there, but that lil' 1701 is definitely for nostalgic-sentiment-only in these days and ages. It was poor 40yrs ago, it's utterly destitute today.


Aw c'mon, that tiny "E" is cute. Mine is mounted on an "N" scale gondola and tool's around the track occasionally.




Model Man said:


> That pilgrim observer -i want several! That looks to be a superb source kit for easy scratch building! Lots of design flavors -Space1999, space odyssey, a little trek and all star wars all over.


Not as many usable parts as one would think. Ounce for ounce, armor and "cutaway" kits provide many more.


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## jaws62666 (Mar 25, 2009)

PhantomStranger said:


> In the case of these kits, we've been having trouble with fit issues. (they are all snap kits now) That and being foolish enough to try release four kits with aztec decals (7 sheets total, hundreds of decals) all at the same time stubbed us as well.


So is June a reality ,or perhaps later


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## RossW (Jan 12, 2000)

I talked to the Round 2 guys at the show and they mentioned that they're facing a tough choice as far as the plan for 2011: if they do the 1/350 TOS E (I'm actually begging you here to do it. This is the only kit I really, really, really want to see) then they can't do anything else.

I'm afraid that my holy grail kit (1/350 TOS E) will once again be delayed for another year. If so, my chances of finishing it before my eyes are shot (and I no longer have the patience to add lights) go down dramatically.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Same here, Ross. I'd trade all R2's other releases for the 1/350 E in a heartbeat.


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## Fozzie (May 25, 2009)

PhantomStranger said:


> In the case of these kits, we've been having trouble with fit issues. (they are all snap kits now) That and being foolish enough to try release four kits with aztec decals (7 sheets total, hundreds of decals) all at the same time stubbed us as well.


Don't drop the aztec decals! Love 'em.


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

I'm getting up there in age, and would love to have my 1/350 original TV _Enterprise_ grail kit to enjoy for a while.


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

Considering the plethora of trek we got this year alone, 1/350 TOS is a MUST! There can be no other decision.


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## Fozzie (May 25, 2009)

RossW said:


> I talked to the Round 2 guys at the show and they mentioned that they're facing a tough choice as far as the plan for 2011: if they do the 1/350 TOS E (I'm actually begging you here to do it. This is the only kit I really, really, really want to see) then they can't do anything else.


That's a helluva tough business decision to make. :-( You're really betting the farm.


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## jaws62666 (Mar 25, 2009)

I for one have been waiting for the TOS big E for a very, very long time. I cant wait to see this one. Just to see a cool shuttlebay with little original shuttlecrafts. You guys have to make this one. Please!!!!


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

Fozzie said:


> That's a helluva tough business decision to make. :-( You're really betting the farm.


The Refit seemed to do well enough to last all these years. And people want the original even more than that. I can see buying five of them in the first two years easy. I would challenge anyone to make a more anticipated kit (the J2 being a close second). Response from the expected market will be overwhelmingly positive.


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## BlackbirdCD (Oct 31, 2003)

RossW said:


> I talked to the Round 2 guys at the show and they mentioned that they're facing a tough choice as far as the plan for 2011: if they do the 1/350 TOS E (I'm actually begging you here to do it. This is the only kit I really, really, really want to see) then they can't do anything else.


To which I respond with four questions:

Yeah?
And?
So?
What?


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## BlackbirdCD (Oct 31, 2003)

Here's another 2 cents from Chris Doll....

I've been considering buying some heavier tools to build more and better scratchbuilds - starting with a 1/350th TOS E. A lot of people say they're going to do this, with varying degrees of success. I will do it. I probably won't sell it myself, unless you ask nicely, I just want one.

So for me, as a spaceship model kit buyer - this means I'd rather save my pennies from buying another six kit re-issues that I have only moderate interest in buying, in favor of picking up a nice lathe. Starting with the K-7 Space station, I'm pretty ho-hum on the offerings.

But then I'm only one customer and their mileage may vary.


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## mach7 (Mar 25, 2002)

RossW said:


> I talked to the Round 2 guys at the show and they mentioned that they're facing a tough choice as far as the plan for 2011: if they do the 1/350 TOS E (I'm actually begging you here to do it. This is the only kit I really, really, really want to see) then they can't do anything else.
> .


All I can say is TOS sells. Ask Paramount, ask DST, ask Rubies, heck ask R2!

A big, accurate Enterprise is almost everyones holy grail. If other kits are delayed so be it!

Just my 2 cents.


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## derric1968 (Jun 13, 2003)

Well, the bottom line is that you can't please everybody. Whichever way they decide to go is going to upset somebody.

Personally, I have no interest in a 1/350 TOS Enterprise. I would much, MUCH rather have 2 or 3 newly-tooled, smaller Trek kits. Since the formation of Round 2, the only completely new Trek kit they've released so far is the 1/1000 Enterprise Refit, with the nuEnterprise still months away. If they go with the 350 Ent, that means I'll go from the nuEnterprise release until sometime in 2012 before seeing another new Trek kit. "No problem!" you might say, but to me, that would be very depressing. And I know I'm not the only one here who either doesn't like the big kits or prefers the small kits.

Yeah, it's a tough decision. I wouldn't want to be in their shoes right now.

P.S. - Jaime, I'd definitely fill out this year's survey if you post it somewhere!


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## Opus Penguin (Apr 19, 2004)

RossW said:


> I talked to the Round 2 guys at the show and they mentioned that they're facing a tough choice as far as the plan for 2011: if they do the 1/350 TOS E (I'm actually begging you here to do it. This is the only kit I really, really, really want to see) then they can't do anything else.
> 
> I'm afraid that my holy grail kit (1/350 TOS E) will once again be delayed for another year. If so, my chances of finishing it before my eyes are shot (and I no longer have the patience to add lights) go down dramatically.


Oh man! I hope this isn't the case. I have been waiting for this since they announced it! If it gets delayed another year that will suck. I can stand to have them not make any other kits in favor of this.


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

If Round 2 only releases one kit in 2011, the 1/350 original _Enterprise_ should be _the_ one.

Actually, I'm very surprised that they are still asking if that is what we want as a release for that year. I thought the decision was made last fall that it was a done deal and already in the production pipeline.


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## razorwyre1 (Jan 28, 2004)

BlackbirdCD said:


> > Originally Posted by RossW
> > I talked to the Round 2 guys at the show and they mentioned that they're facing a tough choice as far as the plan for 2011: if they do the 1/350 TOS E (I'm actually begging you here to do it. This is the only kit I really, really, really want to see) then they can't do anything else.
> 
> 
> ...





Fozzie said:


> That's a helluva tough business decision to make. :-( You're really betting the farm.


BlackbirdCD, its called having to put all of your multi-million dollar eggs into a single basket. easy for us to say "go for it" when its not out $ and not our business on the line. 

i also thought this was a done deal, but it sounds like they started engineering it and had to say "ay carumba! mush more $ than we thought!"


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

Only one kit in a year if a 1/350 Enterprise is produced? How is this possible? Most of R2's line have been re-pops. Yeah, some retooling, but not much in the way of R&D. Moebius on the other hand turns out new kit after new kit, on top of their re-pops. And their new material have been large scale, with MANY parts, Invisible Man, Seaview, Flying Sub, Jupiter II, etc. Seems to me Round 2 is taking the easy way out. If a big E happens, it happens, and I will pick one up, but if it does not, so be it. Me? I will support a company that takes risks and give the customer what they want!


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## mach7 (Mar 25, 2002)

Moebius and R2 are 2 very different creatures, and both fill a needed segment.

Moebius vehicle kits are expensive! typically 2-3 times the cost of a R2 kit. They both do a good job. We might also be seeing the effect of both companies success! In one of his blogs, Jamie said that the companies R2 deals with in China are starting to see increased costs due to the employee's and factory upgrades. While I think that improved working conditions in China are a good thing, it has to lead to increased cost. The days of really cheap labour in China are probably numbered and it is no where near where it was 8-10 years ago.

With costs rising in China, A recession here at home, and the scarcity of capitol I can see why they might rethink the big E. That kit would push them into the Moebius price point, I would guess in the range of $130 retail.
How many will you buy at that price? Me I'm in for at least 1, maybe 2 but no more. While this is my last holy grail kit, and I REALLY want to see it, it has to be a huge decision for them. The license fees on Trek also have to be huge compared to the fees for IA stuff.

Of course this is all just the ramblings of 50 year old guy, and as such completely meaningless. 

Oh and one last thing Jamie, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE kit the big E!


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

mach7 said:


> Moebius and R2 are 2 very different creatures, and both fill a needed segment.
> 
> Moebius vehicle kits are expensive! typically 2-3 times the cost of a R2 kit. They both do a good job. We might also be seeing the effect of both companies success! In one of his blogs, Jamie said that the companies R2 deals with in China are starting to see increased costs due to the employee's and factory upgrades. While I think that improved working conditions in China are a good thing, it has to lead to increased cost. The days of really cheap labour in China are probably numbered and it is no where near where it was 8-10 years ago.
> 
> ...


Glad to hear things in China are improving and the days of cheep,(i.e. slave), labor are over. Perhaps that lost edge will bring the prodution back to our shore. The cost of time and money in shipping could be saved as well as all the problems with the language barrier during the prototype and tooling stages. 

Hey if R2 is not going to produce a kit of the quality of the Moebius Jupiter II, not sure they should bother. We don't need another "Cutaway" Enterprise. As for price point, everyone screams for accuracy, but screams even louder when they have to pay for quality. After purchasing the old AMT Enterprise, then getting all the after market parts to fix the mistakes, then getting new decals for better markings, you would pay just about as much as a consumer as you would for a "tricked out" 1/350 new Enterprise. 

The Enterprise has been done to death, if it does not get made anew, I will survive. Just the ramblings of an almost 50ish builder. But hey, what is an online forum for, if not for sharing an opinion!


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## Moebius (Mar 15, 2007)

mach7 said:


> Moebius and R2 are 2 very different creatures, and both fill a needed segment.
> 
> Moebius vehicle kits are expensive! typically 2-3 times the cost of a R2 kit.


Which kit would this be? Just name one and I'll be happy to explain where there's a cost difference like that!



mach7 said:


> We might also be seeing the effect of both companies success! In one of his blogs, Jamie said that the companies R2 deals with in China are starting to see increased costs due to the employee's and factory upgrades. While I think that improved working conditions in China are a good thing, it has to lead to increased cost. The days of really cheap labour in China are probably numbered and it is no where near where it was 8-10 years ago.


Costs are no where near what they were 3 years ago, no less 8-10. 



mach7 said:


> With costs rising in China, A recession here at home, and the scarcity of capitol I can see why they might rethink the big E. That kit would push them into the Moebius price point, I would guess in the range of $130 retail.


Our most expensive styrene kit is $119 suggested retail. New tool. Polar Lights at $79.99. Reissue, existing tool. Wouldn't it be natural to price a new kit at a higher price, due to much more cost involved?



mach7 said:


> The license fees on Trek also have to be huge compared to the fees for IA stuff.


I really doubt that. Most studio licensing is fairly standard as far as percentage per item sold. Maybe with so many kits they have a bigger deal, but on an individual kit they should be paying no more than what we pay on IA.


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## mach7 (Mar 25, 2002)

First, I'm not in any way slamming moebius, on the contrary I love what you guys are doing and have many of your kits.

I completely understand the price difference, and it is justified. With the exception of the large refit, most of the R2 kits are less than $30. Very few Moebius vehicle kits are less than $30. Again this is completely justified with the type of kits.

I'm really surprised to find out that the IA license is similar to the Trek license! but as I said I'm just a 50 yr old who likes science fiction kits and has really no idea what goes into producing one. What I really love is the insight that Moebius and R2 have shared on these boards about what it takes to bring these great kits to us. A very big THANKS from me!


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## BlackbirdCD (Oct 31, 2003)

razorwyre1 said:


> BlackbirdCD, its called having to put all of your multi-million dollar eggs into a single basket. easy for us to say "go for it" when its not out $ and not our business on the line.
> 
> i also thought this was a done deal, but it sounds like they started engineering it and had to say "ay carumba! mush more $ than we thought!"


I'm quite familiar with the line of reasoning, but thank you for clarifying it again for the rest of us who haven't been keeping up. And in return I'll clarify my point by saying "I see that you're saying you may not want to put all of your eggs in one basket, but I think it's a bad idea and as a paying customer I shall act accordingly in deciding where I spend my money".


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

My feelings are, if you are going to put all of your eggs in one basket, what better basket to put them in than a large-scale "grail" kit of the original _Enterprise_? A kit that is guaranteed to be a bestseller.

I remember when Polar Lights was coming out with the original run of new _Star Trek_ kits. They would release a single 1/350 scale kit (e.g. NX-01), and one small, 1/1000 scale kit (e.g. NCC-1701).

So, if that means that we would be returning to those times, then so be it. Hopefully, the new 1/350 _Enterprise_ kit is currently in production and slated for release in early 2011, as mentioned in their blog late last year. While I love the repops of the old AMT kits, I would be disappointed if that is all that we would end up with for releases in the coming year.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

How many years has it been now since PL released the 1/350 NX-01? And at that time I thought they'd have been better off releasing a 1/350 TOS E instead. So, however many years that's been, that's how long I've been impatiently waiting for them to do it. I retire seven years from next month, and after I retire, if it takes them that long again to get around to it, I may not be able to afford $100 model kit.


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## BlackbirdCD (Oct 31, 2003)

John P said:


> How many years has it been now since PL released the 1/350 NX-01? And at that time I thought they'd have been better off releasing a 1/350 TOS E instead. So, however many years that's been, that's how long I've been impatiently waiting for them to do it. I retire seven years from next month, and after I retire, if it takes them that long again to get around to it, I may not be able to afford $100 model kit.


Well you can if you start saving now  Open an IRA for "my retirement model kit savings"


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## Jafo (Apr 22, 2005)

RSN said:


> Only one kit in a year if a 1/350 Enterprise is produced? How is this possible? Most of R2's line have been re-pops. Yeah, some retooling, but not much in the way of R&D.
> 
> According to those guys at the booth at WF the 350 TOS kit would take up ALL OF COMPANYS TOOLING FOR A YEAR!. So going for 1 release the whole year is pretty damn risky.
> And again, 100 people will say they would buy their Grail kit if someone put it out but in actually only about 20 or so really do it.


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

Jafo said:


> RSN said:
> 
> 
> > Only one kit in a year if a 1/350 Enterprise is produced? How is this possible? Most of R2's line have been re-pops. Yeah, some retooling, but not much in the way of R&D.
> ...


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## Edge (Sep 5, 2003)

I just have to wonder... how much does the Uncircumcised-prise kit factor in to the 1/350 Classic Enterprise equation? What I mean is, they seem to have plenty of resources to dedicate to that ship (of unknown sales potential) but not the classic? Seems to be the NX-01 all over again.

Sorry for being negative, as I have tried to be good lately and keep my mouth shut if I couldn't say something nice.


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## James Tiberius (Oct 23, 2007)

i figure that if r2 doesnt, that whoever gets the rights at a later date *cough* moebius *cough* that they will do it. they would make lots more with the big e than the 30th re-release of the klingon bop with new ramp and gear. if you're wanting to get more money then go all out on tos trek. its safe!


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## Moebius (Mar 15, 2007)

mach7 said:


> I'm really surprised to find out that the IA license is similar to the Trek license! but as I said I'm just a 50 yr old who likes science fiction kits and has really no idea what goes into producing one. What I really love is the insight that Moebius and R2 have shared on these boards about what it takes to bring these great kits to us. A very big THANKS from me!


You could run a 3 day seminar on how licensing really works, and it's still pretty misunderstood by many. I won't get into it here, but most items sold have a set percentage per piece, but what you have to guarantee them as far as sales is where the difference comes in. With Trek, you can run so many different kits due to the amount of films and series that have been out that it costs more to acquire a license. But the rate per piece is approximately the same as any other property.


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## mach7 (Mar 25, 2002)

Thanks for the reply!


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## Opus Penguin (Apr 19, 2004)

They now have a survey you can mail in, or an online survey you can fill out.

http://round2models.com/xtras/wonderfest10.php

Here is your chance to state you want the 1/350 TOS-E.


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## HabuHunter32 (Aug 22, 2009)

It's beginning to look like the past is repeating itself again. 1/350 TOS Enterprise may not happen! Why am I not surprised? I thought we had a shot this time. I guess time will tell. No Spindrift and now the TOS Enterprise may go on hold! Yes there is much to be happy about in our hobby but this could be sad! 

I await our fate...


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## ccbor (May 27, 2003)

Oh my goodness gracious me!!

Bor


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

It's great to see R2 reissuing and improving these older kits like doing the Enterprise D in clear plastic (I think they should do them ALL in clear, including the 1701A smooth and the saucer with innacurate aztec panelling) but I still think they're wasting their time doing that ugly ship from the new film. People have been asking for years for the original Enterprise and K'Tinga in 1/350 yet still nothing. I'm not saying that manufacturers shouldn't try and attract new generations into the hobby but surely Moebius has proved the main market for kits at the moment is us older modellers?


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## OneAM (Jul 9, 2008)

Even if the current market is for older modelers, marketing only to them will ensure that the market remains only with the older modelers. Subjects that today's youth can identify with from the theater will go a long way to extending the life of the hobby, I think.

I'm 21, for reference. _I'd_ love to get my hands on a 1/350 TOS E, but still, think of the children.


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## spindrift (Apr 16, 2005)

Good Gosh...how in the world can R2 be backtracking on the 1/350 TOS E??????? Beyond comprehension...would be a BIG seller for YEARS...I think what they are saying is no more new tools for a year, I think. Anyhow how can they hesitate? Got to be something else going on cause expense makes no sense. 
This kit has GOT to be done...next year.
Gary:thumbsup:


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## actias (May 19, 2003)

Hmmm! I seem to remember we were all depicted as JACKASSES (The Cartoon Donkey) in R2's response to us for our negative reactions to the delay from 2010 to EARLY 2011 (Just a few months delay - to quote them). I guess we donkeys had it right. Repops are easy because all the work and tooling is done on another companies dime. Just about everything announced as new has been poo-pood for one reason or another. I guess repop heaven is what it will be. Sorry to be negative but how many times are you supposed to just have faith and not question the intentions of companies that want our dollars. Give us what we want and we will give up the dollars. Try to shove something, I dont want, down my throat and my wallet clams up. It's not a zero sum game. Moebius proves it can be done. They listen to our requests (without making promises) and then they make an educated decision on what to produce. Then they make an announcement and they follow through. I dont have a single gripe about the Moebius kits.


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

Jafo said:


> According to those guys at the booth at WF the 350 TOS kit would take up ALL OF COMPANYS TOOLING FOR A YEAR!. So going for 1 release the whole year is pretty damn risky.
> And again, 100 people will say they would buy their Grail kit if someone put it out but in actually only about 20 or so really do it.


You are kidding... right?

Are you saying that Master Replicas only sold 20 of their 1/350 Enterprise (at $1200 a piece)?

How about Unobtainium's 1/350 Enterprise? I'm pretty sure that they sold more than 20 of that turkey (at $795, $1295 and $1495) and accepted payments for a ton more that they never delivered.

For every one person who was willing to spend over $1000 for a 1/350 TOS Enterprise, I'm sure you could find another 10 people who would be more than willing to pay a little over $100 for one.

But the decision to *not* go forward on the 1/350 TOS Enterprise has already been made.

Why do you guys think they are _asking_ in an obscure questionnaire if they should move forward on a project that should already have so much momentum that they couldn't afford to stop it at this point. This is their way of saying that their _customers_ didn't really want this model rather than taking responsibility for their own decisions.

I mean if they are going to hit the rescheduled first quarter of 2011 target, they should be so far along that it shouldn't even be a question at this point. Given that, I'd say the plug was pulled a while ago (most likely two or three months ago).



Honestly guys, they are never going to make this model kit. Ever!

This is only something that they dangle in front of you guys to keep you interested in them... and nothing more. And they have built in every excuse possible into how they hype the thing. For example...*JamieH:* _"This is a model kit that MUST be right in every way. It MUST be accurate. It MUST build better than the 1/350 Refit. (yes, I said better) It MUST be special. It will be our best effort to bring a definitive model kit to market that requires nothing more to add to the subject."_​Why _MUST_ it be all those things? Nothing else in life is, so why apply unrealistic standards?

Easy... to have an excuse for not finishing.


I'll bet that I'll have finished my replica of the original 33 inch Enterprise (one-to-one scale, and of the same materials) before Round 2 delivers a 1/350 TOS Enterprise kit. And remember that I'm doing all of my work alone (research, design and building) and I am not making a product to sell thousands of copies.

But in the end, you should stop letting them use the possibility of a 1/350 TOS Enterprise kit to beat you guys into a frenzy. As it stands right now, it is better for them to *not* move forward and just keep dangling this in front of you guys. :tongue:


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

_"...and it MUST be delivered in early 2011!!! Even if it's the only kit we release next year!!!!!!"_

Forever the optimist!


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## HabuHunter32 (Aug 22, 2009)

I wish R2 and Moebius could come to some type of arragement and Moebius could design and and get the Tos 1/350 produced. With R2 holding the licence the project will be on hold or shelved indeffinitely! Moebius could get it to market. Round 2 is not willing to follow through on this and we may never see one of the most anticipated kits of all time. When Polar Lights started backing off of the 1/350 refit they had already put so much into it they had to follow through. I think that time has shown that the 1/350 Refit is one of Polar Lights and now Round 2's most popular kits! Round2 even put more money into the latest repop of that kit and it's still selling even in this bad economy! I would rather have the 1/350 TOS E produced than all of the minor updates that they have been doing to the older kits. In reality Round2 never should have made an announcement that this kit would be produced in the first place. If they couldn 't afford it then why get everyone excited like this only to be let down once again! This leaves a bad taste in my mouth and I'll think twice about buying from Round 2 in the future! Iv'e bought some kits that I could have done without trying to support Round 2 and other manufactures and the online retailers (no LHS in my area). Making announcements and not following through is just bad business...


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

I for one have no plans to buy the re-pops they have coming out. Why waste money on a crappy kit from the '60's just for "nostalgia" reasons? If I knew it would help fund a 1/350 E, I might. But the game seems to be, tease us with shiny objects from our past, promise something in our future, and deliver NOTHING! Moebius gets my hard earned money from now on!


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

I can understand them worrying about putting all their eggs in one containment field, but how can they doubt that this kit will sell?


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

Round 2 needs to heed those famous words, "to boldly go...", and follow through with this kit. My fear is that if they don't release it soon, that it will never get released. It will just be one of those grand projects that just sits on the "someday" back burner and is never realized.

It's been almost eight years since they acquired the Star Trek license, and the flagship kit still has not been realized in all that time. I am one of those folks whom Shaw mentioned that bought the $1200+ 1/350 Master Replicas ship, and was taken to the cleaners by the scumbag lawyer/owner of Unobtainium for more than that. How many (cases) of these kits could I have bought for that same $2500? Probably the same amount that I intended to spend upon it's release - and I am just one of many in the chorus. 

The problem is, I'm not getting any younger, and as much as they may want to attract a "new" audience of youngsters to the hobby (as we all do) with the little snap kits with the big decals, the fact is that it is the older demographic that are the primary customers whom they are marketing to with these kits, and we're not going to be here forever.


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## mikephys (Mar 16, 2005)

HabuHunter32 said:


> Making announcements and not following through is just bad business...


I'm a big R2 supporter for all the've done lately, but you make a great point. I realize that they have to make business decisions. If the company goes under we all lose, especially the people whose jobs are on the line!!

On the other hand, if they have doubts, they need to do the math BEFORE they make a big announcement. I'm still hoping that all this talk of R2 backing out of the TOS 1/350 is just conjecture and rumor. I'm worried though.


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

I bet they could do the OS Enterprise and K'Tinga easily and make a healthy profit on them but unfortunately a lot of these big companies are only interested in chasing the mass kids market with things like this.


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## spock62 (Aug 13, 2003)

Been following this tread and figured I'd add my two cents worth. Looks like my dream of finally having a big, accurate, TOS Enterprise may remain just that, a dream.

This from the Round 2 blog as of Nov '09 titled "Star Trek Model Kit: Boldly Going...":

"So about a month ago or so (or was it longer…) we received an email from him (Gary Karr) saying he was nearly done with the plans and would start emailing them over."

"I can’t wait to get started. Since receiving the plans, we have gotten approval from the guys up stairs to get costs, etc to start the mock up. That was great news to hear. It will all happen one step at a time. It’s almost time to reserve the space in the dry dock…"



So, according to Round 2, the plans were nearly complete last year and things were shaping up and moving (slowly) towards production. No indication was given that anything had changed, until now.

Like others have said, it seems to me that they've (Round 2) gotten too used to reproping old kits, maybe adding new decals/parts, and letting it go at that, which is far cheaper then producing an all new kit. The only new kit released so far is the refit Enterprise in 1/1000, this after 2 years in business.

Checked out their upcoming releases in 2010 list that is included in their Aurora Batmobile release, out of 50 some odd kits, only 4 are all new. The 1/350 TOS Enterprise is not listed. If they keep this up, they'll become like some other companies "cough, Revell, cough" that release only one or two new molds a year and everything else is a reissue.

While I like some of the Trek and other reissues they put out, I really look forward to new mold releases. If their saying the reason for delaying/canceling the big E is due to cost, it makes no sense. This would be an extremely popular model and I can't believe it would cost more to produce the the big refit E (in today's dollars). It has far less surface detail to worry about and the only interior item (that can be seen) is the shuttle bay which is far smaller and less detailed then the one in the refit. 

Plus, I would think they have more resources then someone like Moebius. Yet, Moebius continues to come out with not only reprops but all new kits, many of which are "holy grail" kits to some in the modeling community. How is it a smaller company can produce several new kits a year, some of which are big and complex, and reprops at the same time and a bigger company like Round 2 has trouble producing one new big kit? Something is amiss....


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## mach7 (Mar 25, 2002)

First I have to post a disclaimer: I have no knowledge of anything and I know nothing about high financing!

But I wonder if the problem with R2 is cash flow. I would imagine that some manner of financing was involved in the opening (reopening) of R2. This financing involves costs. With the economy being what it is, maybe they just don't have the cash available to pay for new tooling, re-poping, and interest. The Re-poping would seem to me to be a low risk way of generating cash flow. Also R2 has other companies that have to produce product, and these products also incur costs.

It's all just babbling by me though, and as such really worthless.

It does seem to me that the big E is dead for now. Too bad, because it's the only kit I can think of that I would be willing to pay over $100 for.


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## Seashark (Mar 28, 2006)

Edge said:


> I just have to wonder... how much does the Uncircumcised-prise kit factor in to the 1/350 Classic Enterprise equation? What I mean is, they seem to have plenty of resources to dedicate to that ship (of unknown sales potential) but not the classic? Seems to be the NX-01 all over again.
> 
> Sorry for being negative, as I have tried to be good lately and keep my mouth shut if I couldn't say something nice.


I've heard before that (depending on the license) a licensor can dictate what a licensee produces; it's possible that Round2's devotion of resources to the JJprise is a result of Paramount's insistence. Or, perhaps, Round2 thinks it will be a decent seller. 

That said, I understand how you feel.


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## jlwshere (Mar 30, 2007)

Seashark said:


> I've heard before that (depending on the license) a licensor can dictate what a licensee produces; it's possible that Round2's devotion of resources to the JJprise is a result of Paramount's insistence. Or, perhaps, Round2 thinks it will be a decent seller.
> 
> That said, I understand how you feel.


I also believe that is the only reason anyone would make this kit.... is if they had to to fulfill part of their licensing.


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## jlwshere (Mar 30, 2007)

Shaw said:


> But the decision to *not* go forward on the 1/350 TOS Enterprise has already been made.
> 
> Why do you guys think they are _asking_ in an obscure questionnaire if they should move forward on a project that should already have so much momentum that they couldn't afford to stop it at this point. This is their way of saying that their _customers_ didn't really want this model rather than taking responsibility for their own decisions.
> 
> ...



I couldn't agree more. 2009 moves to 2010 moves to 2011. It ain't happening. And the excues "We have to get this right"... PR BS. 

Firstly, what is so complicated that they are having trouble getting it right? This is a very simple ship as far as sci fi vehicles go. It's not the Millenium Falcon, after all. Secondly, they already "got it right", or so all of the critics say, with the 1/1000. Why can't those files be upscaled and used?

I am still a little disillusioned with the great fanfare for the reissue of the 1/650 E as opposed to putting out the Big E. Aside from sentimental value, the kit is crap. A collectors tin, isn't going to get my money. I want something that reasonably resembles the ship. But again, other than a minor clean up, they didn't have to invest into the tooling. 

I do believe that the big ships have more of an appeal for adults, whereas the smaller ones also open up the kids market who can easier build them and will play with them as well, and as mentioned on this forum often is space is an issue for many regarding display.

The bottom line is this company is going to go for mass sales in todays economy. And while the BIG E would undoubtably sell, it will be at a price range where parents will not buy it for their kids to build, so you are looking at a much smaller market from the get go. 

I have a 1/350 vacuform E kit, that I was considering selling, but I think I just may keep it after all, as I don't think R2 will be putting this kit out. If the numbers were there, this kit would be out already. It's not happening.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

> Secondly, they already "got it right", or so all of the critics say, with the 1/1000. Why can't those files be upscaled and used?


Because those little bitty parts blown up _three _times and assembled would look like utter crap. Go snap one of those things together and take a really close look. What works at 11" will NOT work at 33", and no one one would want the thing. It's like taking a 320x200 JPG and printing it as a 3-foot poster - you'l see every pixel as a big block and it'll look like crap. How many years does this have to be explained before people get this thru their heads?


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## Nektu (Aug 15, 2001)

ok, so maybe I missed it.. did R2 actually say that the kit is 'delayed', 'postponed' at the show? I haven't seen it on any of the other boards anywhere, but here.
Is this conjecture?

KK


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## spindrift (Apr 16, 2005)

We need an OFFICIAL (lol) word from R2....this is utterly ridiculous. I can not believe this kit would be top top top priority with any company that has the Trek license.
I WAS a big big supporter of R2 and their Trek reissues. Guess what, I have waned.
We should give them a chance to clear the air. I still can not believe this kit is not going forward.
Gary


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## spindrift (Apr 16, 2005)

Notice how QUIET it is from R2 on this thread....nothing....


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## spock62 (Aug 13, 2003)

While it's true that scaling up the 1/1000 kit won't work, they DO have CAD plans for the 1/350 kit. And as jlwshere pointed out, the TOS E is not a complicated ship detail wise, the refit E is more complex, so this kit shouldn't be that difficult to develop. 

As for parents not buying a big E for their kids, well, how many kids you know are interested in the Star Trek show from the late '60's? Not many I would imagine. I'd be willing to bet that the majority of sales of the 1/1000 kits are to adults in their 40's to 60's, and that their buying these kits for themselves (which is why I think they should not be snap together). Round 2 should know that Star Trek kits appeal mostly to adult modelers, customers that usually have the cash for bigger kits. Having the space for it is another matter!

Round 2 is even screwing up the 2009 E regarding the scale being used, 1/2500 as opposed to 1/1000. Polar Lights decided on 1/1000 as a common scale for their smaller Star Trek ships and are sticking with it, except for the 2009 E. The new kit will be in scale with the reissues of the old snap kits from AMT, a scale that will not be used in future Star Trek releases based on the Round 2 questionaire. My guess is that they want the 2009 E to fit in the standard 1/1000 box which is why they choose 1/2500 'cause it's cheaper for them. Isn't this what AMT used to do, making sure the kit fit in standard boxes, i.e. box scale? I really hope Round 2 rethinks both of this issues.


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## Nektu (Aug 15, 2001)

Well, I stumbled onto this thread, thinking it was about kits at Wonderfest. Why isn't the thread labeled "TOS 1/350 Enterprise not going forward?"... seems to me that would garner a bit more attention.

KK


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## spindrift (Apr 16, 2005)

I agree , can the moderator move this over or should we start a new thread. i am abit miffed right now on this rumor or in this case looks to hem-hawing on R2's part.


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## Paulbo (Sep 16, 2004)

spock62 said:


> ...Round 2 is even screwing up the 2009 E regarding the scale being used, 1/2500 as opposed to 1/1000...


Personally, I think this was an excellent decision. The NuPrise was "rescaled" from 1000' to 2500' late in production so they could use the brewery for engineering, though there were no changes made to the CG model.

By making the kit 1:2500 scale it will be about a foot long, which is what a 1:1000 scale kit would be using the original size of the ship. This gives the modeler the option to display it with the other 1:1000 ships using the (IMHO) correct size of the ship.


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## spock62 (Aug 13, 2003)

Paulbo said:


> Personally, I think this was an excellent decision. The NuPrise was "rescaled" from 1000' to 2500' late in production so they could use the brewery for engineering, though there were no changes made to the CG model.
> 
> By making the kit 1:2500 scale it will be about a foot long, which is what a 1:1000 scale kit would be using the original size of the ship. This gives the modeler the option to display it with the other 1:1000 ships using the (IMHO) correct size of the ship.


If that is Round 2's intentions, then the stated scale should be 1/1000, the ship can't be both 300 meters long and 700 meters long at the same time, regardless of what's on the screen. But, in Round 2's defense, I'm sure they were stuck with what the studio gave them regarding dimensions.


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## mach7 (Mar 25, 2002)

Yesterday I posted a question over at Jamies blog on the R2 website asking about the future of the 1/350 TOS E. It's still awaiting moderation....But it is the weekend. Maybe we will have an answer tomorrow.


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## Hunch (Apr 6, 2003)

The Spock kit, K-7 and Romulan ship are the only Trek repops I would bother with, and since they are doing or have done them it would seem the 1/350 TOS E should be a no-brainer. Other than the Pilgrim Observer I could care less about the rest of their molds (unless they have the pirates).


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## Paulbo (Sep 16, 2004)

spock62 said:


> ...I'm sure they were stuck with what the studio gave them regarding dimensions.


That's my take as well, but in my mind it will be a 1:1000 kit.


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## actias (May 19, 2003)

ok, so maybe I missed it.. did R2 actually say that the kit is 'delayed', 'postponed' at the show? I haven't seen it on any of the other boards anywhere, but here.
Is this conjecture?

KK
**********************************************************


It is conjecture but judging from the way they are talking, I smell a rat. The kit was supposed to be in the bag and well under way in 2009. Its was, quote, approved from upstairs and going to happen. Then we were told that it would be delayed until 2010 because it was going to be perfect but don't worry it's well under way. Then we were told it was delayed until 2011 and that 2011 only meant late 2010 EARLY 2011, but don't worry it's going well and it is well under way. Now they say if they do the big E. then all the other repop kits and other subjects will not be able to be made. Solution: They are doing another survey. Then they can say (In Family Feuds host Richard Dawsons' voice) "The suvey says:" You guys did'nt want the big E. if all the repops were going to be delayed. Sounds like Obamas' campaign promises!
I'M WORRIED BECAUSE THE KIT IS WELL UNDER WAY! I smell a very big rat.


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## razorwyre1 (Jan 28, 2004)

first off, if i were a part of R2, the LAST thing i would want to do is throw gas onto this fire by commenting on it in any way shape or form.

i have my own ideas about why they might be delaying the kit, and one of them is the overall economy. i am an internet retailer, and have been for almost a decade, and my sales have never been worse than they are at the present time. while the subject matter is a very safe bet, we are also taking about a very large and expensive styrene kit. if i were in a decision making position @ R2, i might very well temporarily shift the 1/350 TOS E to the back burner until i saw that the economy improving to the point where it could support such an expensive new item (among the general public), and if i were to do that, id sure keep my mouth shut about it, considering the volatility of fan-boy opinion.


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## jbond (Aug 29, 2002)

How DARE you introduce a perspective based on reason and business experience to this thread!?!? You're just like Obama's campaign promises!!


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## actias (May 19, 2003)

So if the good business sense in this economy is valid, in this case, then explain why that business model is being successfully defied by Moebius' large expensive obscure kits. :tongue:


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

90% of the country is employed. The economy is an easy excuse for people to use when things how they want them. Moebius has thrived in what some call a "horrible" economy. Why? Because the care about their customer base. R2 has been VERY quick to address issues on the board in the past. Thier silence to me, speaks volumes!


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## spock62 (Aug 13, 2003)

I posted a message on Round 2's blog last Friday and it has not been posted yet, probably because of the weekend. We'll see what happens this coming week.

Also found this on their blog titled "1966 Batmobile Model Kit: Wonderfest Count Down 1."

...This week’s previews only touch on some of the high points of the show for us. Feel free to stop by and ask questions about these and other projects like the Star Trek Movie: New Enterprise, Enterprise 1701B and the 1:350 Enterprise (like I need to give you permission to ask…). We’ve got these kits and more in the pipeline...

So, according to this blog message of 5/14/10, the 1:350 Enterprise is still in the pipeline. Question is, where in the pipeline is it and how long of a pipeline are we talking about!


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## spindrift (Apr 16, 2005)

That's a long pipeline......very long pipeline the fact thay are taking a POLL to see if you want a 1/350 E is worrisome enough. I certainly hope the kit is still a GO but the facts we have up to now are not very encouraging- looks like cold feet to me. In any case it's their business if they make it or not. I , too , wonder how Moebius keeps forging ahead with lots of new tools while they seem stuck...
Gary


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## spindrift (Apr 16, 2005)

Plus the fact at W Fest they showed NOTHING on the kit at all, no poster, flyer, mention, NOTHING. That speaks volumes to me, if it's still a go it's a LONG way off. Hard to imagine them not beating the drums NOW if it is only 7-8 months away ...we wish!
Gary


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## jlwshere (Mar 30, 2007)

John P said:


> Because those little bitty parts blown up _three _times and assembled would look like utter crap. Go snap one of those things together and take a really close look. What works at 11" will NOT work at 33", and no one one would want the thing. It's like taking a 320x200 JPG and printing it as a 3-foot poster - you'l see every pixel as a big block and it'll look like crap. How many years does this have to be explained before people get this thru their heads?


While I follow the logic of the JPG analogy, I doubt JPG files were used in the creation of the 1/1000 E. 

CAD files are vector files which can be enlarged or shrunk without the loss of quality, presuming these were the type used on the 1/1000 Enterprise. While it is also true if you magnify the 11" model, 300% (33") You will probably notice some flaws, but not a many as you seem to think. With new tooling based on a 1:1 file (enlarged with no degradation) these would disappear.


Again, Vector files live in an uncompressed environment (while JPGs and MPGs are compressed by definition) and as such are not subject to the "blocking" you refer to. In any event, my point is they got it right already and are just saying this as an excuse to stall.


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

I wouldn't use the vectors for the small kit at all.

This is an entirely different animal. Completely new level of detail. Plus clear window inserts, internal support structure for engine pylons, hangar deck, warp engine lighting, wiring and motor access, etc. 

Also, taking into account the details that were incorrect on the small kit - you really wouldn't want to just scale them up for the big model. It would never work. Gary Kerr has the best plans available, complete with corrections and added details from the earlier drafts.

I desperately want this kit to happen. I sincerely hope that it is still in progress and that the polling is just for reassurance on their part that they are making the right decision to follow through. I just wish that they hadn't thrown all of those other, small-scale kits into the foray for people to choose from. That seems a bit disingenuous to me. Those kits have not been even officially announced, while the 1/350 kit was announced last year.


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

In a conversation I had with Thomas Sasser I got the impression that he and the company (what ever it was called at the time) had something of a falling out. I know he was unhappy with the fact that the decal sheets for the 1/1000 kit were scaled up and used for the reissue of the 18" kit.

As for the sharpness of the original design used for the 1/1000 kit, an early mock up was done at 150% of the final scale and can be seen here.

But I think the redesigning of the kit is academic at this point. They got Kerr to do the drawings and it sounded like that hurdle was already passed. And from the reports, it sounded like the files were already being collected to be passed along to China for the building of a mock up.

I didn't follow the progress of either the 1/350 Refit or 1/350 NX-01, but how long does it take to put together a mock up? And how long between the mock up and the final release?

Looking at the blog posts for the 1/1000 Refit, it was 28 weeks between the first images of a mock up and the model hitting the shelves. I would guess that it would be like 42 weeks or more for a 1/350 kit, and if that were the case (and they wanted to hit the January 1, 2011 release date) then a mock up would have been presented to them back in mid March.

Which is why I think the plug was pulled on this before the mock up was started... and the tooling absolutely hasn't started or the question would not have shown up in the questionnaire.

Obviously the STXI Enterprise *is* at the stage at which many of us thought that the TOS Enterprise should have been at, or that model would have been part of the poll as well.

So I doubt this model has moved beyond Kerr's plans... and absolutely won't be ready for stores _just after the clock strikes 2011_ (or in the first quarter of next year... or next year at all now).

But look on the bright side... next year they'll throw together another set of models to push the 1/350 TOS Enterprise back. And they'll do the same the year after that, and the year after that, and so on.





What bothers me is seeing people say that they are buying Round 2 kits believing that they are helping to finance the production of the 1/350 TOS Enterprise... when in fact that is not how Round 2 is seeing those purchases. They see those purchases as validation of going with smaller kits and repops.


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## Dr. Brad (Oct 5, 1999)

I'm hoping they do a 1/350 Enterprise! If they do, great. If not, I won't speculate as to why or why not they didn't do it. I can completely understand people being upset if not's going to get made. What I don't care for is people ascribing motives to Jamie or other people at Round 2, when I (and most of us this thread), simply aren't in a position to know what is motivating them. Sure, we can guess, but what good does that do? It's just speculation that generates more heat than light...

And I think, in the absence of inside knowledge about Round 2's finances, that we should avoid coming close to accusing them of deliberately misleading us, as some of these comments seem to (if I've misunderstood, my apologies).

John P, you've made some great comments in this thread, and I know you'd dearly love to have one of these before you retire. But if you're on a fixed income, and can no longer afford to buy $100 plus kits on you're fixed income, I'm betting you could sell some of your stash to pay for one. You, like many of us, would have to live to 200 to build half of what have (though I do understand the emotional attachment we all have to our unbuilt kits). 

Let's hope for the best - if it happens, it happens.


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## JGG1701 (Nov 9, 2004)

Shaw said:


> What bothers me is seeing people say that they are buying Round 2 kits believing that they are helping to finance the production of the 1/350 TOS Enterprise... when in fact that is not how Round 2 is seeing those purchases. They see those purchases as validation of going with smaller kits and repops.


I thought I was helping finance the 1/350 too!
-Jim


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

Dr. Brad said:


> What I don't care for is people ascribing motives to Jamie or other people at Round 2, when I (and most of us this thread), simply aren't in a position to know what is motivating them. Sure, we can guess, but what good does that do? It's just speculation that generates more heat than light...


Lets remember what we are talking about... a 1/350 TOS Enterprise.

Think about this for a moment... Unobtainium puts out one of these (based on what looks like Alan Sinclair's plans) and people go nuts for it (though the company screwed up by making them out of a material that wasn't meant to last for more than a few weeks). Master Replicas puts out one and people go nuts for it. People _talk_ about doing a garage kit and it generates a ton of interest.

Apparently the 1/350 TOS Enterprise is a subject that is more popular than any other in the modeling world based on the reactions it gets. It is a lightning rod subject.



And lets take me out of this... I'm not _that_ interested in this kit.

I, personally, think the 1/1000 TOS Enterprise made building Enterprise models boring. I don't care for those kits because the building of them doesn't ask as much of the builders to get it right as either the 18" or 22" kits do. I love looking at what people have done to either of those to get close to the original model because they often display great craftsmanship and artistry. To date I've only commented on a few 1/1000 builds because they were far enough away from the base kit to qualify as interesting.

And from my point of view, this 1/350 TOS Enterprise (if it is anything like the 1/350 Refit) isn't going to produce interesting models (for me).

I'm moving more towards scratch building models and away from kits. I'm into researching (on my own) and building what I've put down on the page into a physical representation. So my goal would be a one-quarter scale _un_idealize representation of the 11 foot model.

So I don't really think the 1/350 TOS Enterprise is for me... though the subject is interesting none the less.



But back to what is happening. The 1/350 TOS Enterprise is a *very* popular subject. It is a version of the iconic starship that people have been willing to pay a ton of money for, and many more (without the funds) have dreamed about having.

So the question is, why does Round 2 keep bringing the thing up? Why do they continue to get people's hopes up? And why was it in this questionnaire?

Logically it shouldn't have been in the questionnaire. The 1/350 TOS Enterprise obviously doesn't need additional validation (it is one of the most discussed and sought after subjects around), and it should have been far enough along that it stopping shouldn't have been an option.

Round 2 *has not said* that they are going to miss their _just after the clock strikes 2011_ goal. At least not yet.

But how could the 1/350 TOS Enterprise be in this questionnaire if it is just seven months from being finished?



It is their business... screw around all they want. But don't screw with the customers! Stop dangling the model kit in front of people.

I, personally, think they should stop talking about it publicly until it is at a point where they couldn't stop it from happening even if they wanted to.

Otherwise, as Jamie said, they are just the _company that cried wolf_.



And it should be clear by now... it was a mistake to have had it as an option in that questionnaire. It invited both speculation and a questioning of their motives.

If they are willing to generate (*purposely*) interest in this kit, they had best understand that interest isn't always positive. But they are the ones who are adding fuel to this fire (they are, after all, the *only ones* who can fuel this fire)... and heat *and* light should be the understood by products of it.


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## Magesblood (May 12, 2008)

how is this thread still open? I mean, bite the hand that feeds you? Psssh


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

Magesblood said:


> how is this thread still open? I mean, bite the hand that feeds you? Psssh


Really?

I've never bought a Round 2 model... but teasing and feeding seem like two different activities to me. And I often applaud those that bite the hand the teases them. :thumbsup:


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## Magesblood (May 12, 2008)

haw many Babylon 5 fans still buy Monogram kits?

Remember how they promised a Minbari ship and something else, I can't remember (a Whitestar?)


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## Dr. Brad (Oct 5, 1999)

Shaw said:


> If they are willing to generate (*purposely*) interest in this kit, they had best understand that interest isn't always positive. But they are the ones who are adding fuel to this fire (they are, after all, the *only ones* who can fuel this fire)... and heat *and* light should be the understood by products of it.


Whether what they've said has been handled as wisely as it could have been is up for debate, I suppose. I just don't think that the folks there at Round 2 have any bad intentions or are deliberately misleading us. I mean, I could be wrong about that - it wouldn't be the first time, but I just don't think so. But that too is only an opinion.


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## spock62 (Aug 13, 2003)

Here's the latest post from JamieH regarding the 1/350 Enterprise:

"First, let me say the 1:350 TOS E is a live project. We must decide whether we can afford to do it in 2011. It is not a question of whether we WANT to do it. We DO want to do it but it will be an expensive kit to tool up and we need to plan carefully to maintain the success we’ve had thus far. We are doing what we can to make it happen ASAP. I’m sorry I can’t give more details here."

Here's the link:

http://www.collectormodel.com/round2-models/666-round-2-models-wonderfest-wrap-up/#comments


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## Dave Metzner (Jan 1, 1970)

As someone who is on the inside of one of the model producers and has been on the inside of another. 
Let me offer a word to the wise - be careful which hand you're biting...most of you have no concept of the internal workings of any of the companies you discuss so freely here.

Whenever you accuse the guys from these companies who go to the shows (often on their own time!) or post on blogs or bulletin boards to answer your questions (usually on their own time!) of not telling the facts or 'teasing you" all you do is make us question the value of answering your questions at all! 

Trust me I speak from personal experience on this (I have lots of tooth marks on my hands, so I don't stick my hands out there as often these days!)

I don't remember where I read it, but someone posted the comment that "after all,we're not waiting for a Kidney here" I though that gave new model kit release dates a new and healthy perspective!
A little thought before posting complaints or accusations would go a long way.

And to put it bluntly all of the bitching won't get the kits on the shelves one day earlier!

Dave


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## Opus Penguin (Apr 19, 2004)

Update from Jamie H. at RC2 in the comments section:

First, let me say the 1:350 TOS E is a live project. We must decide whether we can afford to do it in 2011. It is not a question of whether we WANT to do it. We DO want to do it but it will be an expensive kit to tool up and we need to plan carefully to maintain the success we’ve had thus far. We are doing what we can to make it happen ASAP. I’m sorry I can’t give more details here.


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## PhantomStranger (Apr 20, 2009)

Wow! Thanks for all of your interest in our kits and the 1:350 TOS Enterprise in particular. Thanks for your faith in us to get it done and done right and still be able to stay in business long enough to sell it to you. You can't have the former without the latter. Please don't forget that. Don't let that scare you. We're doing fine. 

Let me tell you a fairy tale.

One day a tailor went to the king to see if he could get a loan. The king had been very generous in the past but recent events would keep him from handing money out as freely as he had before. The tailor new all of the farmers of the kingdom wanted new overalls, the ladies of the kingdom each wanted a new ball gown, the hard working tradesmen each wanted new leather aprons and the children each wanted new clothing for their dolls. the tailor really related to the craftsmen for he was one too and hoped to make new aprons for every one of them. However there were many more farmers and ladies than there were craftsmen. In addition, dolls clothes were very quick and inexpensive to make. The king gave the tailor enough money to make the aprons but there would be no money left over to make the items everyone else wanted. The leather aprons were also difficult to sew and would take the time away from any other items he could make from the scraps. The tailor had to carefully consider what materials he could invest in to keep himself in business the longest. He knew if he did that, he could supply everyone's needs over time.

The moral of the story is the bank is king.

We have some difficult decisions to make and I'll let you know what is decided. Ultimately the decision won't be made by me but I'm the one fighting for you guys. The kit would be on the market by now if I had my way.


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## OneAM (Jul 9, 2008)

Thank you for the response. I appreciate the financial realities of business and know that you guys will do what you've got to do.

I also remember when I was just getting into the hobby a few years ago, and the only source for Trek kits was eBay. These re-issues have ended a drought of sorts, and from my vantage point Round2 has been the best thing to happen for this particular niche in a long time.


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## spock62 (Aug 13, 2003)

Appreciate the response PhantomStranger, hopefully Round2 will have the finances it needs to get this kit out. Thanks for keeping us in the loop.


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

PhantomStranger said:


> Wow! Thanks for all of your interest in our kits and the 1:350 TOS Enterprise in particular. Thanks for your faith in us to get it done and done right and still be able to stay in business long enough to sell it to you. You can't have the former without the latter. Please don't forget that. Don't let that scare you. We're doing fine.
> 
> Let me tell you a fairy tale.
> 
> ...


Well, first off.... thanks for talking with us. Some communication is always better than no communication.

I'm guessing, and you guys could stop us from guessing, that even if you green lighted this thing today and gave it 100% of your attention, that you wouldn't hit the first quarter of 2011.

Is that true? Yes or no?

And if it is true, when did you guys actually pull resources from the 1/350 TOS Enterprise project that adversely effected that release date?

Because the first inkling we got that there was any question about this project was when you made it _optional_ for 2011 in an obscure questionnaire. Which in turn is not being up front or proactive about letting people know what is happening.

Do we deserve to know?

That is just as good a question. You guys are happy to get the good responses when you have good news, but seem to wish to avoid the fall out if the news isn't so rosy.

Maybe you guys don't get it... and I can see by some of the posts that other modelers don't either. This isn't a _normal_ kit subject. This isn't a _wouldn't it be nice if_ kit subject. This is an ultra desired subject by a great many people.

How desired?

I pointed it out earlier and it deserves repeating... People paid Master Replicas more than $1200 for a 1/350 TOS Enterprise. People paid between $800 and $1500 to Unobtainium for this subject (almost none of them have anything to show for it today). And a number of people have started garage kits (generating a lot of interest) of the 1/350 TOS Enterprise.

This isn't a normal subject.

I'm sure that you guys love all the interest when you have good news about your 1/350 TOS Enterprise project. After all, there is a lot of interest. But if you are going to speak free when you have good news and dummy up when you have bad, you are going to burn through your customers good will very quickly.

It is a little late now, but it would have been nice to let everyone know when first quarter 2011 was off the table. It would have been nice to know that 2011 was off the table as well.

I know you guys don't want to give us bad news... the messengers never want to be the barer of bad news. But you guys can see what happens when we start figuring things aren't going so good on our own.

So again, now that you _are_ talking to us... can we get all the news? And give it to us straight this time. Because not telling is really only making it worse.



> We have some difficult decisions to make and I'll let you know what is decided. Ultimately the decision won't be made by me but I'm the one fighting for you guys. The kit would be on the market by now if I had my way.


I don't believe that anyone here thinks that you make the decisions. And I'm pretty sure that most of us believe that you are pulling for this project as much as anyone (maybe even more).

But as I pointed out earlier... it sure looks like a decision was already made (even if it came in the form of an indecision). It may have seemed inconsequential to you on the inside... but for us figuring it out months after the fact made it very big (and bad) news.


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## WarpCore Breach (Apr 27, 2005)

PhantomStranger, thanks for taking the time to respond to what was becoming a uncomfortable turn of events.

I'm not knowledgeable about the industry or how it works. I know that as "the contact" you are caught in an unenviable situation- the "rock and a hard place" kind of situation.

Do I want to see the 1/350 TOS _Enterprise_? Hell yes. The other kits mentioned - yeah, those, too!

But money isn't easy to come by for new toolings for your products anymore, not like before. Choices as what gets made, when it comes out, if it comes out... can't be easy! Thanks for being as frank as you can with us, even if you can't tell us everything you'd like to say.


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## PhantomStranger (Apr 20, 2009)

Very simply, I can't give firm answers to some of the above questions because there are none to give at this point.


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## BlackbirdCD (Oct 31, 2003)

PhantomStranger said:


> Let me tell you a fairy tale.


What if you're a farmer who wanted a Ball Gown?


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## PhantomStranger (Apr 20, 2009)

BlackbirdCD said:


> What if you're a farmer who wanted a Ball Gown?


Well, then your in luck.:hat:


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

jlwshere said:


> While I follow the logic of the JPG analogy, I doubt JPG files were used in the creation of the 1/1000 E.
> 
> CAD files are vector files which can be enlarged or shrunk without the loss of quality, presuming these were the type used on the 1/1000 Enterprise. While it is also true if you magnify the 11" model, 300% (33") You will probably notice some flaws, but not a many as you seem to think. With new tooling based on a 1:1 file (enlarged with no degradation) these would disappear.
> 
> ...


ZIP, the point goes right over your head. 
The parts made for the 1/1000 kit are made for a 1/1000 kit. Blow those parts up 300% and all you have is giant versions of small parts - with soft round edges, generalized details, engineering designed for smallness (snap posts and holes, gaps that are now giant rather than barely noticeable). My JPG anlaogy was AN ANALOGY. Vector or raster files, it doesn't matter - a new 1/350 kit has to be completely designed from scratch for the size it's going to be. While the measurements of the _original _ship are 100% useful in designing it, the CAD files used to make the 1/1000 kit _parts _are useless.

This isn't the first time this has come up, ya know.


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## BlackbirdCD (Oct 31, 2003)

PhantomStranger said:


> Well, then your in luck.:hat:


Purely hypothetical, of course. I'm not about to go leaping out of the closet on Hobbytalk


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## spindrift (Apr 16, 2005)

Thanks for an official word, in other words it IS up to the money men. I understand it is a BUSINESS decision. I hope your influence is strong enough to make them see it will be a very profitable kit.
what is unanswered (I think) is does the E kit mean NO releases at all or no NEW tooling releases?
Anyhow Phantomstranger Thanks again for responding.
WE WANT it, but that's all we can do...WANT it!
Gary:hat:


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## James Tiberius (Oct 23, 2007)

well guys, the way i feel is that phantom would want it like alot of us. the best thing you could do is fill out the survey and wait. its a vote. i`m sure it will be close, but we will have a good model(s) at the end. if it doesnt get made now its fine, build something from your model bunker and by the time you`re done there will be a winner. and just remember, its just a hobby. its meant to be fun, and this is a place to share your enthusiasm not degrade one another about silly arguments.

i will be buying whatever they produce cause they`re quality stuff. 

thanks for posting phantom stranger, keep up the good work.

BTW i`m rooting for the big gray lady, but trek in general is cool too.


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## mikephys (Mar 16, 2005)

Thank you Phantom Stranger! The realities of running a business are foreign to me and probably to some of the others on this board. I really appreciate your response to our concerns and look forward to what you are able to do in the coming years.


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## actias (May 19, 2003)

Thanks for the response Phantom Stranger. I think part of the outlash is due to frustration. Not just at R2 but all the other companies that got the licsense made the promise then did'nt come through. This model has been a subject that many have attempted (finished or kitted) be it garage kitters or full fledged companies, for many years now. Over the years this subject seems to be cursed - just as the eagle is about to land it seems to always get shot down. I understand business decisions and of course if the subject does'nt get made, it's not the end of the world - just a disappointment - it is just a model. Apparently the worldwide credit crunch is creeping into everything. I support your company by buying my share of kits that I don't really want in order to put my money where my mouth is. I also realize that tooling is extremely expensive but if the 1/350 Enterprise A's success is any indicator then R2 stands to make a mint - good luck convincing the bean counters though. We have those in my company and unfortunately they have never been in the trenches of daily operations and therefore dont always make the correct decisions that are so painfully obvious to those of us that are in those very trenches. So again thanks for the response and hopefully this gets done before my vision goes.:thumbsup:


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## jbond (Aug 29, 2002)

I understand the frustration--I would love this model, a K'Tinga and everything else. I'm not sure I understand outright hostility about a model that wasn't going to be in peoples' hands in the best case scenario for six months. I work for a number of record companies that release albums for collectors, and the dynamic is much the same--which is why the vast majority of these labels NEVER announce projects before they're available for release if they can help it. Because even under the best of circumstances, something can happen that will delay the release--and the reaction will be exactly like this, with people actually suggesting the companies are antagonizing the fans on purpose.


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## spindrift (Apr 16, 2005)

The thing that has stirred the pot and emotions of alot of us is the fact it has been publically announced again and again "it is coming- drawing closer- research done-scheduled- gotta do it justice-wait alittle longer into the new year- etc". Get my point? Suddenly "well it is one of several options- very costly- we gotta rethink". See what I am saying? Sloped from IT IS COMING AND IT IS GONNA ROCK YOUR WORLD to WE HAVE OTHER RELEASES TO THINK ABOUT ALONG THE WAY...
Man I am frustrated - that it is literally up in the air now.
Best of luck R2, try to make it happen!
Gary:wave:


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## jbond (Aug 29, 2002)

Well, the choice is between keeping everything secret, losing out on potential promotion and having collectors gripe about how secretive you are, and keeping people informed--because no company is under any responsibility to keep their customers apprised of every decision they make and everything that's going to factor into their operations from minute to minute. And even if they were, they are always subject to things and events they can't control. Unfortunately the Internet helps stir up the volume on these things--remember when Revell announced their gigantic Dune line? A number of models that sounded pretty exciting never made it into production--which sucked, but I don't recall being outraged about it.


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## spindrift (Apr 16, 2005)

That is why companies USE the internet to hype product up these days and yes they have to be able to use it to also be open and honest...as SHAW said you have to be able to take the bad points with all the good points of spreading the word...
Gary


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## PhantomStranger (Apr 20, 2009)

I'd like to respond to the last few points because they address my position in all of this. 

I'm a product developer. I contribute ideas to our plan and I execute my share of the work to carry out the plan. We don't have any one person here who is a PR person. We have no hype machine trying to play with anyone's emotions. Each of us takes up a little bit of the marketing workload and does the best we can with it. I chose to come out here and interact because I saw all kinds of rumors and badmouthing early on. I felt I'd take up this part and set the record straight as much as I could and give out as much legitimate info as I could and try to have some fun while I'm at it. I do this while on my lunch break and every once in while when I'm at home. I only post during regular work hours when I have to because I'm just so dang busy. There are others that work on model kits here that don't come out on these boards. They have their reasons for this.

As far as taking the "bad points" with the "good points", I've got no problem with that. I do take issue when there are completely uninformed parties spitting fire and venom for 25 lines of text demanding answers to which their honestly is no straight answer. I know most of you are fair and level headed about things and those are the guys I can relate to. I spent all weekend talking to that kind of crowd two weekends ago at Wonderfest. If you couldn't make it to the show to ask your question in person, I'm sorry you couldn't make it but I'm not obligated to come on a message board and restate everything. There are things I can say in person that I can't say "on the record". 

As Jbond says, plans change for any number of reasons. Ideally everything goes according to plan but we can't guarantee anything but the product we put on the shelf. So far, I've tried to give glimpses and hints of things in our pipeline when I feel comfortable mentioning them. Is their salesmanship involved? I guess there has to be by nature but I would be offended if anyone called me a salesman. (no offense to salesmen. That's just 180 degrees from where I am coming from personally) I'm just here to try to give you guys what you said you wanted- a model company open enough to let you in on the process and keep you informed on the product and take suggestions. We could function as a company without doing that and still deliver great product. But here I am. Maybe I'm foolish and I'm too busy to come out here as much as some would hope but I'm not going away.


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

I'm glad for your time and effort, Jamie.


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## Opus Penguin (Apr 19, 2004)

It is great that we are at least seeing some more of the "behind-the-scenes" process. Though I will be disappointed if the 1/350 E is not done, as least I will understand more that it isn't the company's fault (at least those that did want to produce it). Even if we don't get it, some moderately retooled re-ops are still good too.


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

PhantomStranger said:


> I do take issue when there are completely uninformed parties spitting fire and venom for 25 lines of text demanding answers to which their honestly is no straight answer.


This is an interesting characterization.

Usually the uninformed ask questions to become informed. In the absence of answers, they might look at the evidence and reach their own conclusions. But so far I would hardly call those conclusions _fire and venom_... though you seem more than happy to head down that road when you want to (I'd point out that your Eeyore post is far worse in that respect than anything anyone has said around here).

And, of course, asking questions is different from demanding answers. When you were unwilling to answer simple questions, I was willing not to push the issue further.

Why you would take simple speculation to heart the way that you have is beyond me. As I said before, I don't think anyone holds you personally responsible for the decisions made on this. It is nothing personal... and in fact I thank you for confirming much of what I already believed was the case.

At this point, I really don't need you to answer anything else.

Thanks for your time! :thumbsup:


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## robiwon (Oct 20, 2006)

For crying out loud people................. Sometimes I wonder.

Hello. Thanks PS for posting and giving an inside look at how things are done. You didn't have too.

I think a lot of this all boils down to the "Now" attitude. I want it Now, tell me Now, why not Now, answer me Now, is it ready Now, can you change it Now, etc. This Now attitude is a byproduct of the internet age. It can infect anyone, anywhere, at any time.

You know, I've built models for over 30 years. Yes, even before the internet. No one really knew back then what new models were coming out. I would go to the hobby shop and look at the new Monogram, Revel and MPC catologs. Hoping there would be a picture of some new cool model that was coming out next year. Sometimes the image was blacked out. Sometimes, during the summer, we would be surprised by a new kit on the store shelf. Yeah, back then you had to wait. No one seems to know how to wait these days.

That's all for......................Now.


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## mikephys (Mar 16, 2005)

PhantomStranger said:


> I'm just here to try to give you guys what you said you wanted- a model company open enough to let you in on the process and keep you informed on the product and take suggestions. We could function as a company without doing that and still deliver great product. But here I am. Maybe I'm foolish and I'm too busy to come out here as much as some would hope but I'm not going away.


Hey PS:
Thanks again for taking the time to comment on the boards and let us know what's going on. I still hope to see the 1/350 TOS-E, but in the meantime, I have quite a backlog of models still to work on!


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## spindrift (Apr 16, 2005)

- "Sigh"
No the issue here is well put by Shaw...
we do not say WANT IT NOW,. we are saying something akin to that if you followed development of the news of the 350th E, the "hype" blasted us as something coming and being developed, delays yes but definately on the way. NOW the issue at hand is IT MAY NOT GET MADE or GET MADE years down the road(maybe). If the economic situation is favorable.
Well I said enough, you got to see what the whole point about this issue is, because the existance of the kit is now up in the air.
Gary


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## spindrift (Apr 16, 2005)

...and how is it not the companies fault if it doesn't get produced? Am I missing something here? They hold the license, ultimately it is THEIR decision...
????
Gary


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## jbond (Aug 29, 2002)

Maybe we need to develop some kind of court system in which we can try, convict and execute companies that don't give us the models we want.

Seriously, is this a hobby or your constitutional right to have a 1/350 Enterprise model? Life is full of disappointments--and we don't even know ultimately whether this model will be made or not. Only on the Internets do people get so worked up and bitter about something that doesn't even exist...


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## LGFugate (Sep 11, 2000)

Yup, it's the company's decision. They may have decided to forge ahead a while back to make this kit happen. We all know it takes time to research a good kit and to do it up right. Somewhere along the way, the economy decided to take an unexpected turn, and credit dried up like a spilled glass of water on Dune. Now, the company is deciding whether or not to continue funding this project, or to fund other kits that will make them enough money to survive to someday make the big kit we all want. There has been no real deception here, folks. We have a young, (yes, Round 2 is not an old,established company!) enthusiastic company, manned by young, enthusiastic people who honestly want to make kits we want to buy. Unfortunately for us, "stuff" happens and plans are forced to be changed. This is the point where we all should be expressing our support for Round 2 (and the Phantom Stranger for putting up with us...) and moving on. Threads like this have the potential of killing projects. If you're angry, that's okay. But please, direct it at the source of the problem, not the poor guys that have to wok around it. (No, this is not political, and I will not start a debate over it.) There's an old saying that goes, "No Bucks, No Buck Rogers." and it's proving all too true today. 

Now, go build a model - any manufacturer's model. and let Round 2 figure out what they can and can't do to make us happy. I'm looking for one of those 1/1000 Refits!

Larry


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

It's not like we put down a _deposit_ or anything ...


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## robiwon (Oct 20, 2006)

Nope sorry....this is an example of my Now analogy.

"can we get all the news? And give it to us straight this time. Because not telling is really only making it worse."

Sounds pretty demanding. Making it worse? Is someone in pain? We should all be thankful they are even talking to us! 

But you know what? I think it would be better if all the manufacturers stopped  visiting the forums and giving us sneak peaks. Same thing happened with the new Mobius Dracula. They show a prototype and the town folk have their pitchforks and torches in hand! They really don't owe us anything. They make anouncements to make us happy. Things change, products change and then we demand to know why? And when things happened? And we think it's our right that we be kept in the loop?

I just like building models. There are far too many uptight, demanding people on this board who think model manufacturers owe them full disclosure.

And wasn't this thread about pictures?


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## Dr. Brad (Oct 5, 1999)

Thanks for taking the time to post, Jamie. Appreciate your willingness to share your thoughts on the matter!


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## Fozzie (May 25, 2009)

Thanks for the information, Jamie. It is appreciated.

As for the rest...sometimes plans just don't work out despite the best intentions of everyone involved. That's just life. It's not a conspiracy. It's not a betrayal. It's not "false hype". It just IS.


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## nautilusnut (Jul 9, 2008)

You all should know by now that ANYTHING they produce will be THE FINEST INJECTION-MOLDED MODEL KIT of the Enterprise EVER made.


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## Gemini1999 (Sep 25, 2008)

robiwon said:


> Nope sorry....this is an example of my Now analogy.
> 
> "can we get all the news? And give it to us straight this time. Because not telling is really only making it worse."
> 
> ...


robiwon -

I actually share that perspective. It seems like model companies invariably get "bitten" by their fanbase when they do come on the scene. Oh, sure...people are happy about the updates and pics initially, but then come the complaints, the wish lists, the must haves, must not haves, etc. If I ran one of these companies, I'd just go back to the old fashioned way of making customers wait until there was a finished product, show pics of the box art and a finished build, post a release date and leave it at that.

The internet really can be great when it brings people together, but the downside of it is for those that are attempting to put a product out there for people that supposedly want it, but act like their odd sense of entitlement gives them the permission to tell the model companies what to think, what to do, how to do it and when to release it.

This whole "instant gratification syndrome" that I've witnessed on more than one model board really is somewhat embarrassing to watch. I've seen folks at Moebius Models get upset over comments posted on this board in particular. I know that it's hard for them to sit back and take it up the bum from potential customers and not react to it. The moment a business puts themselves out on the internet, the influx of comments by email or post is inevitable.

I've seldom seen a model builder die or suffer from the lack of a kit release in a given time frame. If it has happened, or there is fear of it happening, I think that a break from building and getting out in the sunshine would do them a world of good.

Bryan


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

robiwon said:


> Nope sorry....this is an example of my Now analogy.
> 
> "can we get all the news? And give it to us straight this time. Because not telling is really only making it worse."
> 
> Sounds pretty demanding. Making it worse? Is someone in pain? We should all be thankful they are even talking to us!


Funny, that was an honest question. And I got what I considered an honest answer.
_"Very simply, I can't give firm answers to some of the above questions because there are none to give at this point."_​But it is more telling about you that you didn't note that I asked the all important question in that same post... _Do we deserve to know?_

There is no _demanding_ if I'm not even sure we should know. And I'm not waiting for the model (and if it never comes out, I'll be just fine)... I just found it interesting that we found out it was canceled/delayed via a question in an obscure questionnaire.

You should re-read the whole post, as it is much better than your edited version.



Shaw said:


> Well, first off.... thanks for talking with us. Some communication is always better than no communication.
> 
> I'm guessing, and you guys could stop us from guessing, that even if you green lighted this thing today and gave it 100% of your attention, that you wouldn't hit the first quarter of 2011.
> 
> ...


So I think the big question here is... why are you guys coddling this company? Apparently Round 2 (as a company) is very sensitive and we should all walk on egg shells around them... right? No speculation is allowed?

Interesting.

A lot of you guys take this stuff way too personally.



robiwon said:


> I just like building models. There are far too many uptight, demanding people on this board who think model manufacturers owe them full disclosure.


Then why read and/or respond to anything in this thread?

You seem more uptight than those who want this model kit.

I'm pretty sure that I've built my last model _kit_, if I do any more model building it'll be scratch building. Unlike a lot of you guys, I don't own a ton of models and I'm not all that interested in model building... my main hobby is actually the TOS Enterprise.

My advice for you, *robiwon*, is to get better ventilation where you build your models. :thumbsup:


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## Opus Penguin (Apr 19, 2004)

Will the questionnaire on the RC2 website help at all if there is an overwhelming response for TOS E? Or is this only a way to show TPTB what the public wants, and it may still not help? I am just curious if there is even a good chance of this happening now or if the chances are fading.


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## Zombie_61 (Apr 21, 2004)

Opus Penguin said:


> Will the questionnaire on the RC2 website help at all if there is an overwhelming response for TOS E? Or is this only a way to show TPTB what the public wants, and it may still not help? I am just curious if there is even a good chance of this happening now or if the chances are fading.


I'd guess it's not much more than a casual poll to help them confirm whether or not the kits they're planning to release (or thinking of possibly releasing) are actually what the modelers want. An overwhelming response in favor of a 1:350 scale TOS E might help them feel more comfortable if they should decide to proceed with the creation of that kit, but I can't imagine they'd be foolish enough to let the results of an anonymous poll make that decision for them. Out of ten modelers who say, "Yes, I'll definitely buy one" I'd guess only three to five actually would.

And, let's face it, we're still a "niche" as far as the big model companies are concerned. I would hope Round 2 has shown companies like RC2 and Revell there's a larger market for sci-fi kits than they previously thought, but I'm sure car and military kits are still the bulk of their sales by a rather large percentage.


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## John Duncan (Jan 27, 2001)

Wow, we are still passionate about the TOS E....I am disappointed by the uncertainty as I was told last year that we would see one or at least there was a "best effort" ongoing to do one. I fired off a loud complaint at that time about the postponement of it then.

The impression I get now is that the bean counters are determining kit releases.

I bought ten of the refit E's when they originally came out. I'd probably buy the same number if the E was released. But I'm starting to feel as if the TOS E is receeding into the distance the longer we wait for it.

I made the comment last year that Polar Lights didn't survive long enough to release the E, perhaps because they did not. I'm sure there were other factors but things change rapidly these days. I also said, to R2, that it would be no surprise if THEY did not survive long enough to release the E if they didn't get on it. There are plenty of modelers who still love TOS to buy them, but this changes with each passing year, especially with the younger generation being brought up on the "new" TOS.

I hope R2 tightens its belt and gets the TOS E out. No vitrol here and I'm not trying to bash them but history tends to repeat itself and I'd hate to see that happen again.


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

Indeed. That has been my fear as well. If the ball gets dropped on the 1/350th kit for release early next year, due to tooling expense, then it stands to reason that it may be postponed indefinitely, because I certainly don't see the cost of tooling and/or labor going _down_ in China over the next several years, or any time after for that matter.

I sincerely hope that they do follow through and release it soon. Since the other, smaller ships were just announced, they could be held off for a time without harm. 

If they nail the design and details of the original _Enterprise_ at least as well as Master Replicas did for their 1/350 display ship, then I will be satisfied, the only caveat being the included building options, structural support and provisions for internal motor mounts and lighting.


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## HabuHunter32 (Aug 22, 2009)

I am quite mystified by this whole situation! Yes the beancounters are in control of every business but you cant tell me that Round2 had no idea how much tooling costs would be on this project! Is this thier first kit? I realize that the new company has not been in business that long but I'm sure some of thier staff are not new to the Hobby business. Cost projections are one of the first things that get analyzed in any proposed project in any business. That being said how can Round2 announce the 1/350 TOS E when they cant afford to fund tooling costs? Shouldn't that have been addressed before the announcement? This is at the heart of this issue for me. Don't announce a project will happen untill it's a commitment that you can follow through on. I had no problem with the delay from 2010 back to 2011 because they still had plans to release the kit. Now Round2 wants to see what we would like to see realeased in 2011. The 1/350 TOS E should be so far along that is should be a done deal right...Wrong! Now its just one of the possible kits for 2011! 

I hope this whole thing plays out well for us all. Round2 for doing the right thing and fullfilling thier commitment to this announced project and for all of us waiting for it's release.


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## John Duncan (Jan 27, 2001)

Trek Ace said:


> If they nail the design and details of the original _Enterprise_ at least as well as Master Replicas did for their 1/350 display ship, then I will be satisfied, the only caveat being the included building options, structural support and provisions for internal motor mounts and lighting.


 
If they can get the basic kit out, there are plenty of aftermarket guys who would do the motors and lights and such. But we need the basic kit to get started. The TOS E will be the kit that will give people plenty of kitbashing fodder. Imagine the things that folks like John P will produce?

I have a MR TOS E here and I'd love to do a Scout, Dreadnaught, etc to go wth it.

Come on R2....you just have to believe......


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## KUROK (Feb 2, 2004)

I wonder if someone could "repop" the plastic shells used for the Master Replicas super expensive release? That could be done now for very little cost. The interiors would be up to you!


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## spindrift (Apr 16, 2005)

If you look through this thread , before Phantom Stranger jumped on and responded it was mostly us "irate" guys demanding to know what was going on...then after he came on a bunch of guys raced to jump behind Phantom Stranger and said "stop picking on poor R2!"
Get it?
Apparently R2's sensibilities have been offended. Guess they don't want to hear the disappointment and unhappiness of us fans of the TOS E.
Gary


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## John Duncan (Jan 27, 2001)

I'm sure they are reading the thread and hopefully having meetings and pushing buttons on calculators to get us a TOS E.

My checkbook is ready.


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