# 1/350 TOS bussard motor



## BARRYZ28 (Mar 3, 2007)

Hello all.

I think I found a motor that should work in the bussard for the Enterprise .
I tried drill bits untill I found 1 that fit with a minimal amount of resistance in the model part that holds the motor.
It ended up being 15/32 and then I went to look for a conversion to MM
15/32 0.4688 11.9063 MM
Now the motor I am looking at is 12 mm Dia and rotates at 58RPM @ 12 volts. Part - Sayama #12SM-AT3
At 12 MM it should fit in snuggly I hope.
I ordered 2 depending on shipping to Canada.
http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/DCM-318/12-VDC-58-RPM-MINI-MOTOR/1.html


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## BruceDownunder (Aug 25, 2008)

Thanks for sharing Barry, let us know how you get on. Only thing I'd be worried about is the length of the shaft.... Err, I don't think that's something I'd want to voice out loud if you get what I mean.


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## BARRYZ28 (Mar 3, 2007)

$7.00 shipping, it's a go.


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## RossW (Jan 12, 2000)

I ordered the same motors a few weeks ago from Goldmine (item #G16300). From what I've seen of the Round 2 lighting kit, they're **very** similar. I'll try powering them at 9V first and then see if I need to go to 12V.


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## BARRYZ28 (Mar 3, 2007)

RossW said:


> I ordered the same motors a few weeks ago from Goldmine (item #G16300). From what I've seen of the Round 2 lighting kit, they're **very** similar. I'll try powering them at 9V first and then see if I need to go to 12V.


Can you hook it up in reverse to see if it spins in the opposite direction?


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## RossW (Jan 12, 2000)

All DC motors will spin in the opposite direction when hooked up in reverse. My prototype circuit is using some Polulu motors but the gears are exposed which I think will be a problem as I'm going to try to insulate the inside of the nacelles to reduce noise.


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## BARRYZ28 (Mar 3, 2007)

They are less expensive over here with cheaper shipping as well
Hope that helps out.
http://candhsurplus.com/product/dcgearheadmotors/page1.htm


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Great! Thanks for the links!


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## RossW (Jan 12, 2000)

Thanks Barry!


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## wjplenge (Apr 14, 2011)

Anyone else receive these motors to test out yet? Mine arrived yesterday and I played around with 1 today. They spin up with as little as 1.5V, tested with a AAA battery because my PS only goes down to 3V. At 3V they're about 16rpms, at 6V they're about 28rpm.

They're pretty quiet though I did notice a high pitch from the motor at voltages of 6V or over, most noticible at 6 and 12V, less noticable at 7.5, 9 and 10.5V. Though when they're inside the model and not sitting on a workbench it may not be noticable.


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## RossW (Jan 12, 2000)

wjplenge - did you solder in 0.1uF ceramic caps between each motor lead and the metal casino? That will help to reduce the high pitch noise. For my earlier Polulu motors, I also soldered in another 0.1uF cap between the motor leads (so, 3 in total) to further reduce the noise (this is standard motor noise-reducing stuff I found on robotic sites). You should also twist the motor wires around each other all the way back to the motor supply (not so much for noise but to electrically isolate the signal from everything else).


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## wjplenge (Apr 14, 2011)

I've made no attempts at noise reduction yet. Just reporting observations on them straight from the box so to speak. The high pitch isn't really bad, much less than hearing a flash unit charging, but it is noticible at the workbench where the motor is sitting naked about 2ft from me.


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## teslabe (Oct 20, 2007)

RossW said:


> wjplenge - did you solder in 0.1uF ceramic caps between each motor lead and the metal casino? That will help to reduce the high pitch noise. For my earlier Polulu motors, I also soldered in another 0.1uF cap between the motor leads (so, 3 in total) to further reduce the noise (this is standard motor noise-reducing stuff I found on robotic sites). You should also twist the motor wires around each other all the way back to the motor supply (not so much for noise but to electrically isolate the signal from everything else).


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brushed_DC_electric_motor

The 0.1uF cap is for electrical noise (EMI) not mechanical noise. The cap helps reduce erratic behavior in the control circuity of your model from the "Make-Break" of the commutator contacts with DC brushed motors like these. If you could see the brushes in the motor as it spins, you'd see sparks, (EMI)
that drives modern electronics nuts....... Sorry, I'm trying to keep my reply simple. If the motor sounds better after the addition of the caps, it's more then likely a case of the signal to the motor being noise free.


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

Just checking: is there anything wrong with the stock motors? Or are some folks going DIY for its own sake?


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## Prowler901 (Jun 27, 2005)

I don't think anyone has the stock motors yet. I'm still waiting for my accessory kit to ship.


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## teslabe (Oct 20, 2007)

SteveR said:


> Just checking: is there anything wrong with the stock motors? Or are some folks going DIY for its own sake?


I don't have my lighting kit yet and won't till after the holidays, I asked Steve
of CultTVman to hold it since I'll be back east for Christmas, so I can't answer
that question. I would think if it's been properly engineered there would be 
filtering capacitors and inductors somewhere in the circuit. Even if they are just running them directly from the power supply you want good filtering so as not to effect the rest of the electronics. Just a thought.......


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## teslabe (Oct 20, 2007)

I think whey are talking about other motors, not the ones in the lighting kit. My reply was to point out that the addition of caps will have little or no effect on the mechanical noise
of these motors unless it's effecting the electronics they are using. The noise they are hearing is from the motor itself and the grearhead on them.


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## wjplenge (Apr 14, 2011)

My posting was NOT about the motors in the Polar Light kit. I was refering to the Sayama motors this thread linked to on 2 different sites at the beginning. I received mine from All Eletronics on Friday and posted what I observed checking them out for others interested in them. I'm sorry if I caused confusion.


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

Hmm ... I think my question stands. If folks are looking for non-stock motors for the 1/350 TOS kit ... how come?


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## teslabe (Oct 20, 2007)

SteveR said:


> Hmm ... I think my question stands. If folks are looking for non-stock motors for the 1/350 TOS kit ... how come?


I think these are people that are not buying the $189.00 effects kit, so they are looking at other motors. Just a thought......


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## BARRYZ28 (Mar 3, 2007)

SteveR said:


> Hmm ... I think my question stands. If folks are looking for non-stock motors for the 1/350 TOS kit ... how come?


If you watch Model Mans review of the bussard, you will see the motors spin to fast at 12 volts. Most people agree that a slower spinning motor of around 60RPM will replicate the on screen effect. I started looking for a replacement motor to see if there was anything out there that would work.

The motor is a little too big for the kit opening and will need to be enlarged slightly. I tried a 31/64 bit but the opening it created was a little too big for the motor. I want to try a 12MM bit that is in-between size between 15/32 & 31/64. The problem is finding that bit local and not having to order it off the net.
I have used a 3/32 hollow brass rod to connect the motor to the rotating bussard cap. I drilled a 3/32 hole through the bussard cap and the brass rod is a snug fit. I then used a 2mm drill bit to open the hollow end of the brass rod to fit over the motor shaft and it worked but the fit is not snug and I can see it slipping. I may need to use 5min epoxy to join the brass and the motor shaft together.

If anyone has a better options please feel free to add your suggestion.


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## BruceDownunder (Aug 25, 2008)

How about just wrapping some masking tape around the shaft to thicken it up and then friction fitting it into the bussard cap? Would that work?


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## BARRYZ28 (Mar 3, 2007)

BruceDownunder said:


> How about just wrapping some masking tape around the shaft to thicken it up and then friction fitting it into the bussard cap? Would that work?


That would be too thick, maybe a 1.9 mm bit should work, but the fit would be a little to tight on the motor shaft that has a flat side to it and end up distorting the brass opening creating a wobble. That's just me thinking out load.


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

BARRYZ28 said:


> If you watch Model Mans review of the bussard, you will see the motors spin to fast at 12 volts. Most people agree that a slower spinning motor of around 60RPM will replicate the on screen effect.


Ah. Thanks. Maybe I'll hold off on buying the stock motors for now.


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## Ductapeforever (Mar 6, 2008)

Pluses for buying the factory kit:

1. No guesswork, all the legwork has been done.

2. No money wasted purchaseing Oversized/Undersized motors.

3. No voltage or other guess work on speed, circuitry, installation.

4. The extra plastic parts needed to light the kit are not available anywhere else.

plus a host of other considerations as yet undiscovered.

Conclusion? Bite the bullet, save your sheckles until you can afford the factory kit. It's far better than experimentation and FAILURE due to jury rigged half-assed installations. Just my two cents.


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## BruceDownunder (Aug 25, 2008)

Couldn't agree more, I have one on the way.
The only problem I have is that the speed of the fan rotation looks like it's too fast (from what i have seen on Tom's video). 
If there's a solution to that, I'm all ears.


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## BruceDownunder (Aug 25, 2008)

BruceDownunder said:


> Couldn't agree more, I have one on the way.
> The only problem I have is that the speed of the fan rotation looks like it's too fast (from what i have seen on Tom's video).
> If there's a solution to that, I'm all ears.


Edit: Some people may want o find alternative ways of doing things in this hobby - either to save money or improvise/experiment or both.
Don't be so harsh as to judge them for that.


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## BARRYZ28 (Mar 3, 2007)

I've bought a kit and it should be shipping very soon.
I also have most of the supplys to build my own kit minus the flasher board.
I will most likey build my own kit and use the already to go kit in a second build
The name of the game is options, I'm not nocking the kit at all and think it is great for the plug & play option.


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## Ductapeforever (Mar 6, 2008)

A variable potentiometer from Radio Shack added to the circuit, after the power supply plug and before the motors will act as a speed control. Don't include the LED's or it will turn down the brightness. So isolate the motor leg of the circuit. Simple solution, don't over think things.


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

Ductapeforever said:


> A variable potentiometer from Radio Shack added to the circuit, after the power supply plug and before the motors will act as a speed control. Don't include the LED's or it will turn down the brightness. So isolate the motor leg of the circuit.


Sounds rational.


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## Kremin (Sep 26, 2012)

SteveR said:


> Sounds rational.


don't you mean logical?


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## RossW (Jan 12, 2000)

Using a pot to slow down the speed of the motor will work but isn't ideal. As I've read on robotics forums, it's better to control motor speed via PWM but to each his own. One thing to note - if you do decide to hook up a pot to control the speed of the PL motors, you'll need to run additional wires up the pylons just for the motors.

Ductapeforever - you're free to make your own choices about how you want to spend your time and money (of course) but others here enjoy experimenting with their own solutions. Please keep that in mind.

BARRYZ28 - do you have a 15/32" drill bit? That's the stated outer diameter of the Sayama motor. Given that there might be a bit of a wobble with your drill, using 15/32" might be just the right size to make it fit but not be too loose. Can you post some pics of your work? We're doing the same thing so I'd like to see your progress and I'll share mine, too.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

RossW said:


> . . . [O]thers here enjoy experimenting with their own solutions. . . .


I'm going to be doing some experimenting as well but am first going with the standard kit so I'm all ears to whatever anyone has to say about either. I appreciate this thread since I need motors and techniques for one or two more 1/350th kits--one of which I'm planning to make a Dreadnought class.


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## BARRYZ28 (Mar 3, 2007)

RossW said:


> BARRYZ28 - do you have a 15/32" drill bit? That's the stated outer diameter of the Sayama motor. Given that there might be a bit of a wobble with your drill, using 15/32" might be just the right size to make it fit but not be too loose. Can you post some pics of your work? We're doing the same thing so I'd like to see your progress and I'll share mine, too.


Yes I have a 15/32 bit and went out and bought a 31/64 bit to experiment but not on the kit part just yet. I tried it out on a chunk of resin and it was too big. After playing with the parts I noticed that the plate on the gearhead fits the kit part perfectly. It's the body of the gearhead that's off slightly and misaligned and prohibits the insertion of the motor. If they were all in line the gearhead would slide in with a little compression fit. I am sure if I tap it in, it would fit but I don't want to damage the motor. 
I ran the 15/32 bit through one of the kit parts and it removed/scraped a minimal amount of material but not enough to get the gearhead to slide in properly. I then rapped sandpaper around a smaller drill bit and attempted to sand a bit of material out. All that did was enlarge both openings but not in the middle. The gerahead slides in part way but then the gearhead body, not the plate, starts to gouge into the plastic as I try to force the motor into the kit part. That’s due to the misalignment factor, if not for that I am sure it would fit perfectly without any modifications.
I’ll try to do photos later, camera batteries dead.


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## RossW (Jan 12, 2000)

Thanks BARRYZ28. But you still feel the 31/64 bit makes too large a hole? I was thinking some looseness would help me play with the orientation of the motor to get it perfectly aligned with the kit parts. I was just thinking that a slip ring over both ends of the motor could be used to hold it in place to part #41: a set screw to press the motor against the slip ring collar and then screws to hold the slip ring against the kit part (not sure if I'm describing this very well).


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## BARRYZ28 (Mar 3, 2007)

RossW said:


> Thanks BARRYZ28. But you still feel the 31/64 bit makes too large a hole?


Yes. 
Some kind of shims may fix it but I would prefer a slight compression fit without any shims.
I can't find the cable for my camera, so no photos, sorry.


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## BARRYZ28 (Mar 3, 2007)

Ok, here goes nothing.
After trying different drill bits and sanding as carefully as possible with a small dremel sanding drum on my stand up drill press, I got the gearhead motor to fit the kit part after forcing it in. After examination I noticed that the insertion of the motor cracked the kit part. Pulled the motor out of the kit part and glued the crack shut with “Pro Weld” liquid glue. I then went back and sanded a bit more with the drum sander. The motor fits but is now slightly loose.

Now for the kicker.
I inserted the second gearhead motor into the second unmolested kit part and it went in with some force and did not crack the kit part. I did not have to modify the kit part in any way at all. I started it off by making sure the top plate on the gearhead was inserted into the kit part by hand pressure only. I then used my crescent wrench and adjusted it to fit the flat sides of the motor. This put all the pressure on the lip of the gearhead as I carefully forced the gearhead down into the kit part. I was surprised that it did not damage the kit part and it would take some real pressure to get it out now.

I can only reason that the kit parts have slightly different openings or the gearhead are slightly over or undersized. Either way one was a bear to get to work and the other one only took some careful pressure to get into kit part.

I would have taken photos but I can't find the usb cable to transfer the photos.


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## BARRYZ28 (Mar 3, 2007)

Kit motors Vs Gearhead motors.
They fit the kit parts the same.
The kit part is the one I remove material from and the motors both slide in easily with little resistance but are too loose for my liking.
Check it out.


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## RossW (Jan 12, 2000)

Cool - thanks for the photos, BARRYZ28. I got my Sayama motors to fit with just a little work using a large, round file. My only concern is that I didn't enlarge the hole evenly along its length, hence the motor shaft might no longer be perfectly centred. We'll see.

I note that the PL kit motor shaft is longer than the Sayama's - probably makes a tight fit with the clear spinning dome. How are you planning to attach the Sayama motor to the dome? I bought some 3mm brass tubing (which is close to 2mm inside dia.) but it's a bit loose due to the D-shaped shaft. There's a small hole which I guess I could use with a drilled hole through the brass tubing and some kind of miniature cotter pin.


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## BARRYZ28 (Mar 3, 2007)

I have used a 3/32 hollow brass rod to connect the motor to the rotating bussard cap. I drilled a 3/32 hole through the bussard cap and the brass rod is a snug fit. I then used a 2mm drill bit to open the hollow end of the brass rod to fit over the motor shaft and it worked but the fit is not snug and I can see it slipping. I may need to use 5min epoxy to join the brass and the motor shaft together.


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## dreadnaught726 (Feb 5, 2011)

I have absolutely no experience in installing motors in models but you may want to consider this. All motors make some type of noise either internally or from vibration. This can be amplified by it's surroundings especially if it is physically touching the plastic. In the Enterprise's case, the long hollow nacelle can actually act as an amplifier which would make the sound more apparent. I have not seen the motors in the lighting kit but I understand they are a bit noisy. If possible you may want to use some type of dampening material, a piece of rubber or cardboard between the motor and surrounding mount to lessen this effect. Again I don't know how they mount or the space around them but it is something to consider.


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## Fozzie (May 25, 2009)

dreadnaught726 said:


> If possible you may want to use some type of dampening material, a piece of rubber or cardboard between the motor and surrounding mount to lessen this effect. Again I don't know how they mount or the space around them but it is something to consider.


Not really possible without a major re-work of the mounting system. The round motor fits tightly into a long, cylindrical opening in large-ish plastic piece.


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## dreadnaught726 (Feb 5, 2011)

Fozzie said:


> Not really possible without a major re-work of the mounting system. The round motor fits tightly into a long, cylindrical opening in large-ish plastic piece.


Just a thought. Maybe someone out there has an idea how to dampen the sound.


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## RossW (Jan 12, 2000)

dreadnaught726 said:


> Just a thought. Maybe someone out there has an idea how to dampen the sound.


I plan on wrapping the inside of the nacelle behind the motor with 1/4" foam sheet right up to part #41 and then plugging up the inner space just by the pylons so no sound makes its way down. I might stuff the area between the pylon and the back of the motor with loose cotton fibre, too.


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## RossW (Jan 12, 2000)

BARRYZ28 said:


> I have used a 3/32 hollow brass rod to connect the motor to the rotating bussard cap. I drilled a 3/32 hole through the bussard cap and the brass rod is a snug fit. I then used a 2mm drill bit to open the hollow end of the brass rod to fit over the motor shaft and it worked but the fit is not snug and I can see it slipping. I may need to use 5min epoxy to join the brass and the motor shaft together.


You drilled right through the dome - I hadn't thought of that but maybe that's how you can get the brass tube to be perfectly concentric. Did you drill your hole from the top down, and did you use a drill press?


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## BARRYZ28 (Mar 3, 2007)

RossW said:


> You drilled right through the dome - I hadn't thought of that but maybe that's how you can get the brass tube to be perfectly concentric. Did you drill your hole from the top down, and did you use a drill press?


I used my stand up drill press with a vise bolted to an X-Y table.
In order to center it I inserted the drill in the chuck and lined up the vise with the X-Y table until the vertical notch in the vise lined up with the drill bit as I lowered the drill bit into the notch perfectly. I then transferred the drill bit to the vise and inserted the bussard dome into the chuck. I wish I had a lathe to do these types of operations. I want to buy one but they're pricey. Even if you only use it occasionally, it would pay for itself with less frustration. Hope that helps, I hate doing this Mickey Mouse stuff but you use what you have.


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## GordonMitchell (Feb 12, 2009)

Hi Guys,Merry Xmas,ok I resisted temptation and didn't go through the parts of my premier E till this morning,on doing so and having concerns after reading a lot of this thread I went straight to the clear parts bag and have discovered that one part looks straight on the bussard dome but the post on the other one was sheared off right at the dome,now the problem I have is that I am in Scotland,I have tried e-mailing Round 2 and have had the e-mail returned as non delivery or unaccepted,I have been using their contact us e-mail,can anyone help here with a contact for them,I'm not sure which way I want to go with the build or if I'll build it now being possibly the only one in the UK but I would like it intact either way,have to say I like the idea of drilling out and putting a brass shaft in the center,
hope you can help,
cheers,Gordon:thumbsup:


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## BARRYZ28 (Mar 3, 2007)

GordonMitchell said:


> Hi Guys,Merry Xmas,ok I resisted temptation and didn't go through the parts of my premier E till this morning,on doing so and having concerns after reading a lot of this thread I went straight to the clear parts bag and have discovered that one part looks straight on the bussard dome but the post on the other one was sheared off right at the dome,now the problem I have is that I am in Scotland,I have tried e-mailing Round 2 and have had the e-mail returned as non delivery or unaccepted,I have been using their contact us e-mail,can anyone help here with a contact for them,I'm not sure which way I want to go with the build or if I'll build it now being possibly the only one in the UK but I would like it intact either way,have to say I like the idea of drilling out and putting a brass shaft in the center,
> hope you can help,
> cheers,Gordon:thumbsup:


Request replacement parts.
http://round2models.com/replacement/


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## GordonMitchell (Feb 12, 2009)

Cheers Barry,will try this one

Gordon:thumbsup:


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## BARRYZ28 (Mar 3, 2007)

Created a simple bussard blinking lights with blinking LED's I bought off of ebay. I don't know the blink rates but they are all slightly off and create a totally random patern without a blinking circuit. check it out and let me know what you think.

Ha ha ha looks like I've put them in the wrong spot, oh well it's only a test.

http://imageshack.us/clip/my-videos/69/u9xkyggpbwrvudbgbeuimq.mp4/


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## RossW (Jan 12, 2000)

BARRYZ28 said:


> Created a simple bussard blinking lights with blinking LED's I bought off of ebay. I don't know the blink rates but they are all slightly off and create a totally random patern without a blinking circuit. check it out and let me know what you think.
> 
> Ha ha ha looks like I've put them in the wrong spot, oh well it's only a test.
> 
> http://imageshack.us/clip/my-videos/69/u9xkyggpbwrvudbgbeuimq.mp4/


Lookin' good, Barry!


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## taipan (Aug 1, 2010)

BARRYZ28 said:


> Created a simple bussard blinking lights with blinking LED's I bought off of ebay. I don't know the blink rates but they are all slightly off and create a totally random patern without a blinking circuit. check it out and let me know what you think.
> 
> Ha ha ha looks like I've put them in the wrong spot, oh well it's only a test.
> 
> http://imageshack.us/clip/my-videos/69/u9xkyggpbwrvudbgbeuimq.mp4/


so if i understand this correctly...they blink like the christmas lights of old?
that is so cool, and i will definitely be looking for some also,
thanks for sharing


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## teslabe (Oct 20, 2007)

taipan said:


> so if i understand this correctly...they blink like the christmas lights of old?
> that is so cool, and i will definitely be looking for some also,
> thanks for sharing


http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trk...nkw=3mm+white+flashing+led&_sacat=0&_from=R40

Here's a good place to start.....:thumbsup:


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## BARRYZ28 (Mar 3, 2007)

taipan said:


> so if i understand this correctly...they blink like the christmas lights of old?
> that is so cool, and i will definitely be looking for some also,
> thanks for sharing


Here are the ones I bought and the seller as well.
I bought mine almost 3 years ago so I don't know if there have been any changes made in that time. 
I am driving it with a 12 volt wall wart and the resistor I am using seems to be working. I looked at the ebay listing and the forward voltage is 3.6, I have a feeling I am over driving them and they will burn out in no time at all. I am not an electronics expert at the strech of anyones imagination but like to cobble lighting kits together for myself. If anyone can shed light on to the correct resistor value for the 12 volts that would be very helpfull. 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/100-Flash-F...744?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c1c29ec10


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## RossW (Jan 12, 2000)

BARRYZ28 said:


> Here are the ones I bought and the seller as well.
> I bought mine almost 3 years ago so I don't know if there have been any changes made in that time.
> I am driving it with a 12 volt wall wart and the resistor I am using seems to be working. I looked at the ebay listing and the forward voltage is 3.6, I have a feeling I am over driving them and they will burn out in no time at all. I am not an electronics expert at the strech of anyones imagination but like to cobble lighting kits together for myself. If anyone can shed light on to the correct resistor value for the 12 volts that would be very helpfull.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/100-Flash-F...744?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c1c29ec10


http://www.hebeiltd.com.cn/?p=zz.led.resistor.calculator

If you connect all the LEDs in parallel, each will need a 470 ohm resistor (that's for maximum brightness and assuming 20mA current draw; you can increase the value to drive them at less than 3.6V which would be good to make them last longer).

Alternatively, you could connect 4 in series and then you probably wouldn't need a limiting resistor at all (each would drop 3V, less than the max and still high enough to be bright).


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## BARRYZ28 (Mar 3, 2007)

RossW said:


> http://www.hebeiltd.com.cn/?p=zz.led.resistor.calculator
> 
> If you connect all the LEDs in parallel, each will need a 470 ohm resistor (that's for maximum brightness and assuming 20mA current draw; you can increase the value to drive them at less than 3.6V which would be good to make them last longer).
> 
> Alternatively, you could connect 4 in series and then you probably wouldn't need a limiting resistor at all (each would drop 3V, less than the max and still high enough to be bright).


I am safe then.
So use to using lower voltages from coin batteries.
My only concern is will the leds and resistors fit in the space for the circuit board. 10 Led's are not the problem but 10 resistors and not trying to cross circuit any bare led leads and bare resistors. Fun fun fun.


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## Prowler901 (Jun 27, 2005)

Howdy folks,

Word of warning. Don't push the fan domes on the motor shafts real hard. I had a heck of a time getting a dome off the other day. I accidentally broke off the gear housing clips. Now I've got to figure out a repair for this that won't interfere with the gear operation.


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## BARRYZ28 (Mar 3, 2007)

Prowler901 said:


> Howdy folks,
> 
> Word of warning. Don't push the fan domes on the motor shafts real hard. I had a heck of a time getting a dome off the other day. I accidentally broke off the gear housing clips. Now I've got to figure out a repair for this that won't interfere with the gear operation.


Thanks for the heads up, I'll keep that in mind when I decide to use the lighting kit.
At this point I am using different gearhead motors that have no plastic on them.
Check post #38 for a comparison of the kit motor and the Sayama motors.


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## Prowler901 (Jun 27, 2005)

Thanks. I just took a look at those, and the link to the motor's specs. Have you run those motors? Are they quieter than the kit motors? Just wondering if the metal gears and gear housing run better than these plastic ones.


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## BARRYZ28 (Mar 3, 2007)

The gearhead motors are noisy as well.
A little update, I wish I had enough time to add the motors.
I sanded the outside of the inner domes with 420 grit and add some black tape for the effect.

http://imageshack.us/clip/my-videos/820/xzekeklwwnfhizutklskox.mp4/


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## teslabe (Oct 20, 2007)

BARRYZ28 said:


> The gearhead motors are noisy as well.
> A little update, I wish I had enough time to add the motors.
> I sanded the outside of the inner domes with 420 grit and add some black tape for the effect.
> 
> http://imageshack.us/clip/my-videos/820/xzekeklwwnfhizutklskox.mp4/


Very nice effect.....:thumbsup:


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## RossW (Jan 12, 2000)

I haven't got the motors hooked up yet but I wanted to see what my custom lighting for the warp engines looked like now that I've received the test PCBs for the discs:

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z301/RossAWaddell/TOS E 1_350 Project/IMG_1094_zps98408941.mp4

I used Tamiya clear paints on the bulbs (after first sanding them with steel wool and a coat of Testors Flat Acryl [brushed on]), but the Clear Orange is too yellow and the Clear Red is too orange. The blue and the green are very similar so I put multiple coats on which ended up making them less bright.

I've only frosted the inside of the outer dome with steel wool; more diffusion is definitely required.

Although hard to see, I broke up some thin mirrors and glued the bits around the bulb stands but I don't think they help much since the light still doesn't scatter much like an incandescent would.

Maybe some artists inks to tint the bulbs? Or maybe scrap the clear bulbs from the kit and put the LEDs on the bulb holders?


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## BARRYZ28 (Mar 3, 2007)

RossW said:


> I haven't got the motors hooked up yet but I wanted to see what my custom lighting for the warp engines looked like now that I've received the test PCBs for the discs:
> 
> http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z301/RossAWaddell/TOS E 1_350 Project/IMG_1094_zps98408941.mp4
> 
> ...


I had the same problem with the clear paints. I painted the Leds first and left the clear plastic alone with a light sanding to give them a frosted affect. 
Next I tried the colored plastic with clear Leds and the brightness was considerably lower. either way I wasn't happy with the effect. Then to add insult to injury some of the resistor or Leds bit it, over driven.

Your Led circuit boards look interesting, are you planning on makeing a kit available?


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## RossW (Jan 12, 2000)

BARRYZ28 said:


> I had the same problem with the clear paints. I painted the Leds first and left the clear plastic alone with a light sanding to give them a frosted affect.
> Next I tried the colored plastic with clear Leds and the brightness was considerably lower. either way I wasn't happy with the effect. Then to add insult to injury some of the resistor or Leds bit it, over driven.
> 
> Your Led circuit boards look interesting, are you planning on makeing a kit available?


I need to find a way to make the colours what I want but without being too dim. 

Once I've finalized the circuit I will decide if I will produce it. To be honest, the PL lighting kit is so complete and so well thought out that I'm unsure if there is a market for another one. I've added some features the PL kit doesn't have (selection of 3 different flash rates for the running lights, motor speed control & port engine direction switch) but theirs is mass produced and plug-and-play.


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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

taipan said:


> so if i understand this correctly...they blink like the christmas lights of old?


Well, yeah, since they _were_ the Christmas lights of old.


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## RossW (Jan 12, 2000)

My plan now is to use 3 mm amber LEDs for the C7 Christmas tree light holders, and various coloured 2mm LEDs for the small round ones. I'm going to try putting them one inner dome-facing side of #42 (sanding the LED surfaces) and then use PWM as brightness control.


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## BARRYZ28 (Mar 3, 2007)

RossW said:


> My plan now is to use 3 mm amber LEDs for the C7 Christmas tree light holders, and various coloured 2mm LEDs for the small round ones. I'm going to try putting them one inner dome-facing side of #42 (sanding the LED surfaces) and then use PWM as brightness control.


Sounds like a good plan, can't wait to see how it turns out.
Post video when done.


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## RossW (Jan 12, 2000)

BARRYZ28 said:


> Sounds like a good plan, can't wait to see how it turns out.
> Post video when done.


Will do. The good news is this doesn't change anything in regards to the nacelle PCBs and the first batch I got back from the board manufacturer work perfectly (with the radius dimensions supplied by Gary Kerr, I was able to map out all 10 holes using trigonometry. I bloody well love math!)


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## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

I look forward to seeing the effect you get.


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## BruceDownunder (Aug 25, 2008)

Found a quick and cheap way to slow down the bussard fan rotation rate.
I bought a few of these http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/140856134843 and wired them into the motor leads, they slow the fans down from the usual (too fast IMHO) speed to almost a crawl (depending on what you want). They are tiny too, so it won's be a problem fitting them into the nacelles.


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## BruceDownunder (Aug 25, 2008)

Here's a link to US ebay suppliers;
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mini-Single...156?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item416fdde474


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## teslabe (Oct 20, 2007)

BruceDownunder said:


> Here's a link to US ebay suppliers


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mini-White-...613?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a214542ad

Or they could go here for less...... As you can see, I've bought a few along
with these RGB controllers, I remove the sleeves and rewire them to make them easier to work with......:thumbsup:


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## BruceDownunder (Aug 25, 2008)

Yep, those are less. And located in Hong Kong.:thumbsup:
They do work well though, no matter where you get them from.


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## RossW (Jan 12, 2000)

BARRYZ28 said:


> The gearhead motors are noisy as well.
> A little update, I wish I had enough time to add the motors.
> I sanded the outside of the inner domes with 420 grit and add some black tape for the effect.
> 
> http://imageshack.us/clip/my-videos/820/xzekeklwwnfhizutklskox.mp4/


Barry - have you attached the Sayama motors yet? The big difference between the Sayama's and the PL ones is the shaft length and circumference: the PL motor shaft is longer ("That's what she said") and completely round, whereas the Sayama's shaft is shorter and D-shaped with a screw hole in the middle. I've yet to find metal tubing which makes a snug fit so my latest idea was to get the motor into position and fill the inside of the clear inner dome shaft hole with Aves putting, slide the part over the motor shaft and let dry (so that hopefully this will make everything concentric).

Any other ideas out there?


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## John F (May 31, 2001)

Has anyone had any sort of success using the sayama motors, do you have pics?
I just ordered 2 this morning for my next build. Would like to see what others are doing.

Thanks


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## RossW (Jan 12, 2000)

John F said:


> Has anyone had any sort of success using the sayama motors, do you have pics?
> I just ordered 2 this morning for my next build. Would like to see what others are doing.
> 
> Thanks


Hi John,

I've got one wired up and installed in the front part but have yet to figure out how to attach the spinning inner dome. The big difference between the PL motors and the Sayama's is the shaft length - the PL ones are a lot longer, allowing them to insert snugly into the spinning inner dome while the Sayama's are too short to make a good connection. Also, the Sayama motor shaft is 'D-shaped' with a small hole in the middle so even if it was longer it might not sit snugly into the spinning inner dome as only one half of the shaft's outer surface would be in contact.

If anyone has any ideas on how to get them attached, I'd love to hear it. I asked Barry specifically above since he's a little farther ahead than me.

Ross


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## Gary7 (Jan 2, 2013)

BARRYZ28 said:


> The gearhead motors are noisy as well.
> A little update, I wish I had enough time to add the motors.
> I sanded the outside of the inner domes with 420 grit and add some black tape for the effect.
> 
> http://imageshack.us/clip/my-videos/820/xzekeklwwnfhizutklskox.mp4/


Barry, Did you reverse the blinking Bussard led install. In your video the larger inner bulbs are blinking. Are the outer bulbs suppose to be blinking? Which is suppose to be correct?


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## BARRYZ28 (Mar 3, 2007)

Gary7 said:


> Barry, Did you reverse the blinking Bussard led install. In your video the larger inner bulbs are blinking. Are the outer bulbs suppose to be blinking? Which is suppose to be correct?


To answer your question, yes by accident.
That was my home made setup without any circuit boards. All I used were blinking and non blinking led's wired together with resistors using a 12 volt wall wart. It worked but heated up and a few led's burned out or shorted out from over handling. it was just a test to see if I could make my own bussard lights. I am currently using the kit lights with Sayama motors.


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## RossW (Jan 12, 2000)

Barry - have you hooked up your Sayama motors to the inner spinning dome? If so, how did you attach them?


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## BARRYZ28 (Mar 3, 2007)

I did it exactly how I outlined it earlier.
The only difference is I used a mini lathe to drill a 2mm hole down the center of the brass rod.
It connects to the shaft snuggly but wobbles a bit due to the shaft being notched.
see vid.
http://imageshack.us/clip/my-videos/43/rbvwfocadvuwjkkkzvvxlr.mp4/


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