# Your Expert Opinions on track surfaces needed



## GaryV (Jul 16, 2006)

I am fairly new to this site have lurked on and off for a few years . I just posted a few days ago on the new user thread..
I am building a CNC machine for my work and I have been wanting to built a routed HO track for years now just didnt have a CNC large enough to build one.
The CNC I am building now , almost finished , will have a cutting area of 26"x 50" so when I build a track I have decided on going the modular route also I can change the layout easier when I want to..
I live in florida so very humid most of the time so I am going to use one of the plastic type materials for the track.
I think Max trax uses PVC expanded material and not sure what material Wizzard uses. i have run on max trax once in Orlando and liked it very much very smooth even being a modular type track.
I have been reading the forum here for a few days now and everyone uses diffenent materials for their tracks..
Are the slicker wizzard tracks made from plexiglass or acrylic, it does have a complete slick surface so it looks like it would stick very well..
I am also undecided on the type of rails to use, some use flat some use round others non magnetic tape or stainless round rail..
I dont want to get started in the wrong direction and end up with a track that I dont like.
I have never raced in competition just played around as a kid and the last few years around Christmas we put up a track for friends at our parties and have a blast.
I have read so many posts here that I am starting to get confused on which way to go in starting...
Any information will be appreciated on where to get materials and what type of rails to run..
Thanks 
Gary


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## martybauer31 (Jan 27, 2004)

I own a Brystal expanded PVC track and it's the best surface I have run on to date. This is also what I believe Bowman uses for his tracks, someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

The expanded PVC is a lot easier to cut as well...

The slicker tracks are also made of PVC as well, but it's a standard PVC versus the expanded. I have noticed that with the expanded PVC tracks you can run anything from a t-jet up through the light bending neo cars and they run really well. The standard PVC seem to be better suited to the really fast cars, at least this is what I have had my experiences with.

Hope that helps,

Marty


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

GaryV said:


> I have read so many posts here that I am starting to get confused on which way to go in starting...


 And the more you read, the more confused you will become. It's like deciding what flavor of ice cream you want; just when you think you have your mind made up, you discover the back side of the menu has more flavors listed.

You seem to have decided on the track surface material, so that decision has been made.

Now, IMHO you must decide what type of cars you are going to run and what kind of downforce you want. Conventional wisdom is that copper tape and braid are not good with hard pickups. So if you are going to run hard pickups and don't want to spend time experimenting, you are left with some type of metal rail. I can't help you pick out the right material, but I can offer you some things to think about.

Elsewhere in this forum, I started a thread on Laying Copper Tape. This generates no downforce and I found out that certain types of magnet cars require a certain amount of downforce in order to bring the front tires down to the track. So if you go with a non-magnetic rail, you will have to address this issue.

Some materials may generate more downforce than you want. Some may cause more wear than others, be harder to install, require more maintenance, etc. The info you need to select the rail you want is already out there in various threads. If you can narrow your needed information to simply what type of rail you want to install, the search becomes a lot easier. Decide beforehand on all the other variables and your rail type becomes your only consideration.

Then search through not just this forum but other boards as well to see the different materials guys have used and the experiance they have had. I am right now looking into using non-magnetic tape/braid/rail and painting the track surface with magnetic paint to generate downforce. That thread is also in this forum.

Good Luck...Joe


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## GaryV (Jul 16, 2006)

Thanks for the quick response guys,
I havesome model motoring T jets and some AFX magnet cars and a few upgraded BSRT magnet cars no NEO or poly cars Yet,, I would like to build an all around track.. The round rail has a lot of good points other than the downforce from the high magnet cars. One of the wire sorces I have been looking into has all grades of wire so I might be able to get a round wire with less downforce in a stainless low carbon mix..
I will keep checking in and try to figure out what I will be building . but I can always make a small oval and change the wire until I get what i like..
Keep the suggestions coming.
Thanks again
gary


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## SuperFist (Aug 7, 2005)

I agree with Marty. :thumbsup:

Silicone slip on tires like Super Tires and silicone coated sponge tires,
really hook up on a PVC track.

__________________


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

I suppose any track material being used today is a combination of its availability of suitable material, price, ease of routing/fabrication, and ease of assembly and railing. PVC in various forms seems to be very popular and for good reason. I believe the current generation WizTrackz are also PVC like the others. I have run on plastic snap together straight out of the box race set track of nearly every brand, plastic race set track with inlaid continuous rail, Formica over wood, steel, PVC, Corian, painted wood, etc., and most of the contemporary name brand customs. Any and all of these tracks and materials can be the basis for an excellent race track, even snap together set track. 

While the surface material does matter, it's the whole package that determines the quality of the racing experience on the track. If you can route a smooth and consistent slot in it, and if the material is stable (i.e. does not warp, break, or expand and contract too much) and if it provides grip for rubber and silicone tires, then you can probably make a smooth track from it. But if the rails aren't spaced correctly from the slot, are inconsistent in height, or are incompatible with standard out of the box pickup shoe setups, some or all that smoothness will be forgotten. The level of magnetic attraction, as Grandcheapskate points out, matters to some people as well, some more than others. Slot depth is also a minor consideration. If you have to trim all of your stock length guide pins to run on a track with a shallow slot, it's an annoyance.

Personally, I think the track surface material is a fairly minor consideration as long as you don't deviate too far afield or try new materials without testing and verifying your theories. To me the make or break point with a custom track is the quality and consistency of the rails. I've seen magnificently smooth and awesome looking tracks with horrible rails, I've seen 20 year old snap together track with beautiful rails, and I've seen more than a few wonderfully CNC'd unrailed tracks end up gathering dust in a basement because the owner was stymied by the rail laying process. If I were considering building a CNC'd tracked I would spend 85% or more of my time becoming proficient in laying rails and understanding rail materials and configurations. Anyone with access to a CAD tool and CNC can get a routed track made up pretty quickly. Very few people can build a top quality race track. If you're gonna fail, you're gonna fail with the rail. 

As far as racing, if you are talking about casual racing with regular, non obsessed, non clinically insane slot heads, I would try to build a track that works very well with box stock, straight from the package toy slot cars that are using standard parts that come on the cars. If you can build a little test track to prove out your choice, better still.


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## GaryV (Jul 16, 2006)

Thanks Guys,
I picked up the last 2 ballscrews today to finish my CNC router,also while I was out I found a sign shop in the same industrial supply area that had some pieces of PVC in 1/4"
I grabbed a small piece 24"x30" , thats the only drop they had in the 1/4", also the programmer for the shop might give me a call to give me feed and speed info on cutting the PVC without burning or having to de-burr edges and slots..
Also found out that a 4' x 8' piece of the PVC is only 75 bucks..thats probably $50 less than I was thinking..
But I am going to use the 24 x 30 piece just to test feed rates and slot depth and contact height . as well as trying for a test track If I get lucky to get the feeds down before ruining too many bits or material..I might re-design the test track to 1 wide lane or 2 lanes so I can get a lot more track from the 24 x 30 peice...Can always re-draw in CAD.
Oh also I received an email from Brad @ bradstracks and he will sell me a roll of the wire he uses but he did not say how many feet per roll just that it would be way more than I might need but its like $500.00 for a roll..
I might look at a round wire with less downforce...Just don't have $500.00 more to put out at this time..

Thanks for input 
Gary


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## neorules (Oct 20, 2006)

If you want to get rail for your effort that is the same type as is put into the auroura afx track call Lapham Hickey steel company. I used this for the first continuos rail track that was built by Charie "chaindrive" Scholzen that still to this day is National Level Quality. It was about 180$ for three, Thousand foot ea. rolls, what it is now i don't know. If I can help you in any way with your effort please don't hesitate to pm me with your number and i'll give you a call.


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## roffutt (Jun 30, 2006)

GaryV,

What part of Florida are you in? Very cool project! You've got a PM. 

-Robbie


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## GaryV (Jul 16, 2006)

Man i cant believe the help I am getting from everyone here..
Thanks all 
And a few PM's when out as well
Gary


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

AfxToo said:


> ...regular, non obsessed, non clinically insane slot heads


 Do such people actually exist??


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## smalltime (Jun 3, 2006)

neorules said:


> If you want to get rail for your effort that is the same type as is put into the auroura afx track call Lapham Hickey steel company. I used this for the first continuos rail track that was built by Charie "chaindrive" Scholzen that still to this day is National Level Quality. It was about 180$ for three, Thousand foot ea. rolls, what it is now i don't know. If I can help you in any way with your effort please don't hesitate to pm me with your number and i'll give you a call.


I also got a quote from this company around five years ago.I was quoted $500.00, I was told that was a minimum order. 

As far as surface goes, the Syntra is the way to go. I beleive it has teflon in it just for routing. Go with a single flute .063 solid carbide endmill:

http://www.endmilldiscount.com/end-mill/micro-tool/pmt-tr-2.htm

I beleive you can find them that have a flute legnth of three times dia. (.189)

And you will probably need two passes with an air blow off or a flood of coolant (if enclosed). The main reason to try to stick with syntra is that everyone already has tires that work. If you have an oddball surface for your track, you tend to run people away 'cause they can't get hooked up. Syntra and Tomy use very similar tires.

I'm a tool and die maker who has routed a few track in the past, if you need any help, send me a P.M. I'll be glad to help.

Tim Leppert


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## GaryV (Jul 16, 2006)

Thanks Tim,
I ordered 5 bits from router world the other day they are single flute carbide .0625 bits with .250 shank and .250 depth of cut so I will be trying those out in a few weeks..
I am going to make a vacuum table from some .750 starboard that I have form a different job to make the table top and first plane down the surface to flush then route out the grooves for the vacuum setup, Using the long o-ring material for a seal , I hope the syntra or PVC is not too slick for a vacuum table but a lot of guys use them and have goos luck with all types of material.
I spoke to Neo last night on the phone and got a lot of information to help get me set up on building , rail type height depth and so on. I am going to draw up a single lane track maybe an oval with a few turns and if it comes out OK I will ship it up to him and have him try it out, then anyone who wants can try it out I am sure he would ship it to them as well.It will be small because the pieces are going to be all cut from a 24 x 34 inch piece and sectional, still up int the air about sectional.
I have to do sectional because of cutting size of my router but I might make the pieces sectional the lay the rail in continuous so there are no connection problems..
Gary


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## smalltime (Jun 3, 2006)

You are going to find that the Syntra has "waves". It is rolled not extruded. The waves are right around .007-.010 in variation. If you want a perfect track with perfect rails, I would do the vacuum table thing and flatten off one side with a fly cutter, then flip it and set your depths. I know this adds another step, but it's worth it. 

For more ideas, you may want to visit T.K.O. tracks. He's a REALLY nice guy and has a good deal going, he may be able to help you out also.


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## GaryV (Jul 16, 2006)

Thanks Tim ,
I just checked out his site,, great looking tracks he is building..
And good idea about flattening the side will have to keep that in mind as well..
Thanks for the info..Bad part is I have been spending sooo much time on the computer insted of working on my router.. Man its getting hot down here...90s with 100 heat index..rough time of year for garage work...
Gary


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## demether (Aug 26, 2008)

Hi, 

here in france someone used cheap galvanised metal sheet to make the contacts rails, maintenant in place with some Brushcutter nylon wire : 












http://www.miniend.com/ftopic-5369-days0-orderasc-0.html


Hope it will help.


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## GaryV (Jul 16, 2006)

Thanks dementher looks good,
Has anyone tried using a copper coated stiching wire that is magnetic?
I found out about this somewhere on the web or this site about using stitching wire that is used to bind books..i found a few rolls of it and it has dimesions of .102 x .020
it is .005 wider than what is recomended but with the .103 depth verses the .109 that tomy uses it might have about the same magnetisim in theory.. Of mass vs magnetisim..
Any info would really be apreciated..
thanks 
Gary


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

To confirm, Brad Bowman uses Sintra (Closed-cell PVC foamboard).


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## brownie374 (Nov 21, 2007)

Not sure what TKO uses but I like it.I have recently got one and like it very much.


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## martybauer31 (Jan 27, 2004)

Brownie, what did you pay for shipping if you don't mind me asking? How easy was it to put everything together once you got it?

Thanks!

Marty


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## tomhocars (Oct 19, 2005)

*Track material*

I have a Brad Bowman trackand I lovve it.It's made of Sintra.No problems with it.Tom Stumpf


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## brownie374 (Nov 21, 2007)

Shipping was $193.00 and I picked it up at the freight terminal.But I have alot of track.My table is 5ft4 by 12 .And I have a additional 14 foot piece to convert it to a oval.The track went together smooth and it is very nice.If you get one consider a banked turn I have 2 ,10deg turns that connect with a straight.Very cool.I had planed on a max but my table size limited the turn radius on the layout.Max has a limited amount on radius tko does not.


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## martybauer31 (Jan 27, 2004)

Thanks Brownie.... so the TKO comes in multiple pieces similar to a Max Trax? It looks that way in some of the pictures on the website, but it's hard to tell?

Do you have the .020 rail or .015? 

Thanks again for your replies!

Marty


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

What's the rail on the TKO track made out of?


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## brownie374 (Nov 21, 2007)

I have the 15 thou.My track is 6 pieces.And is 53 ft long.he uses as few a joints as possible.He cuts the track out of 4x8 sheets.


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## brownie374 (Nov 21, 2007)

Dont know what the rail is made of.If you want to check the track I can invite you to a race.I send out invites by email because when I posted them the crowd was getting too big,and that was with tomy track.


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