# Interest in HO Slotless racing?



## mrstumpy (Oct 5, 2013)

I'd be interested to know how much interest there still is in slotless racing in HO. Yes, it's been a long time since Tyco, Aurora, Ideal, or the few others did anything with this (heck, these companies are all long gone) and probably 90% of today's HO racers have never heard of it.

I know from right here on Hobby Talk that there are still a few folks that dabble with it. But how many? Are there enough to set up some kind of discussion group such as a Yahoo Group or something similar? Does such a group already exist and I haven't found it?

No doubt, this sort of thing would have extremely low participation numbers because there are so few slotless fans and they probably do slotless as only a small part of their hobby interests. In a way that might be better because it would be more like a small club rather than a large, well known group that would attract all sorts of junk posts trying to sell Viagra or run scams (a recurring problem for the larger, well known Yahoo Groups.)

This isn't as dumb an idea as you might think. Up until the Labor Day weekend change over at Yahoo a few years ago (which spelled the end for a LOT of Groups) there were Yahoo Groups for Crosley and Hudson automobiles. I think the last new Crosley came off the production line about 1949 or '50 and Hudson around '55.!

Just wondering what others think about this idea. 

Stumpy Stone in Ahia:wave:


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## slotcardan (Jun 9, 2012)

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## mrstumpy (Oct 5, 2013)

Dan, I kind of suspected that the "old time" slotless folks were pretty few and far between, but thought it worth asking. The Tyco TCR and Aurora Speedsteer are definitely "dated technology," and time has passed it by. 

No matter, I enjoy dabbling with it from time to time and because there is no local interest, this is pretty much "self entertainment." I try to devise ways to expand the scope of slotless by building things and doing some experiments. I've always been a creative modeler in every hobby I've been in. 

One thing about doing slotless alone is that I don't have to put up with the kind of people that I have had to deal with in Model Railroading for so many years. For some reason, they feel that if you don't do things "their way" it's wrong. In slotless, I do what I want to.

The limitations of quarter century old technology are obvious, yet it is a simple technology, relatively inexpensive, and takes up little space. So I'll keep dabbling with it. Check out some of my latest projects on http://slotless.weebly.com .

And by the way, I still check out your website once in a while for info and ideas. Seems like no matter how many times I go there, I discover something I missed or get ideas. Thanks!

Stumpy in Ahia


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## slotcardan (Jun 9, 2012)

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## mrstumpy (Oct 5, 2013)

Dan, I've done similar stuff, and your website pointed the way to salvaging otherwise "write off" items. Experience in restoring real cars helped some too. Anything not savable is stripped for parts. Sometimes I can take two, three or more junkers (in auto restoring we'd call them "donor cars") and make one running car.

Battered car bodies are not in short supply from the guys in my slot car club or at shows, and bodywork isn't a problem for me. I built a truck tractor with a sectioned body and chopped top that handles almost as well as the typical car! I'm also doing a few Modified Stock Cars out of Auto World Vega bodies I got at a toy and hobby show for .50 each.

I have a few pieces of Tyco TCR with that the locking tabs broke off that I saved by gluing plastic strips on the walls, drilled small holes in the protruding areas and installed crude set screws to hold the sections together. Only a little more elegant than taping them together, but it works. Since then I've replaced these with good sections I've found, but keep these modified ones "Just in case." Twenty plus year old plastic can be very fragile.

I also am slowly buying some stuff from Slot Car Central as I can afford it.

Meanwhile, the current problem is space to put together bigger tracks and road courses. I love oval racing (done it full scale all my life) but it can get boring too. I'm currently negotiating with the wife of 39 years for more real estate. But she's tough! 

Stumpy Stone in Ahia:wave:


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## slotcardan (Jun 9, 2012)

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## mrstumpy (Oct 5, 2013)

I've been wondering about mild turn banking, and/or wider curve radius, especially with no center wall in the curves. As per your video, basically this would meaning raising the outside of the curve and then "warping" the track down into a small bit of banking. How far it could be warped would depend on the strength and flexibility of the plastic and whether or not the pick up rails would deform enough without kinking or popping up out of the track. 

Obviously you would not be able to (or really want to) duplicate Daytona style banking! Spending some time under a couple of 100 watt light bulbs before mounting to wooden risers would warm the plastic and allow easier warping of the track.

I have some experience with Tomy banked curves and understand that the straight track leading to and going away from the banked turns also needs to be mildly banked.

I've thought about modifying Tomy track by placing a pick up rail in the slot and making the slot car track into TCR track too, allowing banked sections and wider curve radius as well since they offer so many different tracks. Width might be a problem using the Tyco cars, especially the Jammers.

The slot car club races on eight different, large custom made tracks CNC milled from Sintra plastic, making almost any configuration possible. I imagine that TCR type tracks could be made this way as well. The problem is that these are VERY costly. A couple of years ago a four lane oval made to fit a 4x8' area was $1000. plus shipping! At these prices, used TCR track is ridiculously cheap and more in my price range! But such a "super track" WOULD be cool.

Just dreaming...

Stumpy in Ahia:thumbsup:


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## slotcardan (Jun 9, 2012)

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## mrstumpy (Oct 5, 2013)

Slotless 1/32 scale looks cool, and from racing 1/32 slot cars, I know that accurate scale and the detail and graphics you can have is very good. Love to do it, but two things are stopping me: cost and space.

Meanwhile back in HO, I'm getting to the point where I like the Aurora cars better. Like their T-jet bodies, Aurora did a better job with the AFX/Speedsteer bodies getting the look and dimensions closer to real cars than anyone else of those days. The steering system is better too, but the front bumper seems a bit weaker than the Tyco cars. Perhaps it's because of the different type or the older age of the plastic? 

One of the reasons that I started experimenting with removing the center walls from some of my Tyco TCR track is that those center walls are damn hard on the cars when you hit them end on! Another thing I've tried (with limited success) is making thicker bumpers on the bodies themselves. These are made of layers of card stock added to the front of the car to absorb some of the impact. Being out of production for twenty or more years doesn't allow for the destruction of a lot of steering parts and broken off chassis bumpers!

One of the groups I worked with during my 39 years as a racing announcer was the Antique Auto Racing Association, a vintage racing series where the race cars had to be 1955 or older. Parts were tough to find and duplicates had to be fabricated or cast and machined. I tend to think of Slotless stuff as "vintage racing" as well!

Stumpy in Ahia:thumbsup:


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## slotcardan (Jun 9, 2012)

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## mrstumpy (Oct 5, 2013)

Yu da' man, Dan! I'm always referring to your TYCO TCR website, which is where I first leaned about the lineage of Tyco TCR being a variation on the earlier Aurora Speedsteer design. 

well used and damaged track was easy to come by locally, and one of my Yorkshire Terriers has a "thing" for chewing plastic, so a couple of other sections ended up in the "damaged" category. (Damaged means "for experimental modification" for me.) So I have five sections of curved track without center walls so far and one "Break Out" section with no center wall too.

However, I like your idea of using Speedsteer and similar track. It is a more "elegant" way to do things and I won't need to make wider front bumpers for Aurora cars anymore or remove center walls. Plus there is more interesting track in the Aurora world.. 

Meanwhile, I'll have to try soldering gun "welding" on the chassis with front bumpers broken off. I've used such heating before to soften plastic for bending, (I used to make roll cages out of the parts sprues) but have never tried to "weld" that way. Will give it a shot! Thanks!

Stumpy in Ahia:thumbsup:


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## slotcardan (Jun 9, 2012)

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## mrstumpy (Oct 5, 2013)

I need more space! While I love the ovals, they really don't lend themselves all that well to adding obstacles. Just not enough mileage. I did an over and under figure eight that is better, but still not enough and not long enough straight areas for good lane changing.

I've been dabbling with obstacles off and on since I started doing slotless and have the cones, barrels, "Police" barricades, and the Tyco Jam truck which drops culverts when you rear end it. I've built a couple of ramps, one that the car jumps, and one that rolls the car over onto it's side. Two cars were lettered "Stumpy's Helldrivers" for thrill show re-enactments!

I built two free rolling cars out of old T-jet cars that no longer run. If you hit them, they roll down the track and those are obstacles that MOVE! Using scraps of extruded Styrofoam insulation board, I carved half a dozen "hay bales" that really fly when you hit them. Of course, there's also my version of the Aurora "Breakout Curve" track from a dog chewed Tyco TCR curve section as well. 

I just finished making a "Danger Zone" track from a plain old straight track that had the locking tabs broken off. To make it a tad more spectacular, I line up Aurora Police barricades and barrels to crash through. 

As you have probably figured out by now, I'm a builder and tinkerer as much as a racer. If I see it or imagine it, I can generally build a model of it. I've been building models for almost 60 years! But without more space, I can only use a couple of obstacles at a time. 

Negotiations with the wife for more real estate drag on...

Stumpy in Ahia:thumbsup:


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## slotcardan (Jun 9, 2012)

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## mrstumpy (Oct 5, 2013)

Before getting into anything else, I just noticed some other people are reading this thread 591 times! This tells me there is at least a little interest in slotless racing, even though Dan and I have been the only ones posting recently. The rest of you guys are sure welcome to jump in as this started as a question of how much interest there is in this long out of production type of HO racing.

Okay, on with the current discussion. Ovals are my main interest as I come from an oval racing family and have been in it for years in 1/1th scale. That being said, Dan, you are 100% correct that they have limits that road courses do not. I laid out a good size road course on the floor last night to try using more of my obstacles and a Road Blocker car. Lots of possibilities came to mind. One was that spending 45 minutes crawling around on the floor isn't as easy as it used to be now that I'm 65!

Unfortunately, I had to go to the other room for a few minutes for a phone call and when I returned one of my Yorkies was chewing on a curve section. I now have yet another damaged piece of track for experimentation and have gone back up on the table where racing is safe from "Yorkzilla." This makes five track sections she has damaged in three years! Every time I set up on the floor! I've never seen a dog with a taste for plastic like this! She chews slot car track in both HO and 1/32 scale with equal intensity.

This brings me to tonight's question. "Yorkzilla" got a Tyco TCR body some time back. I'd like to replace it but I've forgotten which Tyco bodies fit the TCR chassis. HP7? 440x2? Which ones have the same wheelbase and mounting as the TCR cars?

Stumpy in Ahia:freak:


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## slotcardan (Jun 9, 2012)

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## slotking (May 27, 2008)

> I just noticed some other people are reading this thread 591 times!


No, it jus me! I am just trying to what crazies post about slotless race cars in a slot car forum??:tongue::tongue:

Just kidding

I just like to read what folks are doing even If I do not do it.
I look at RC and 1:1 stuff as well.


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## mrstumpy (Oct 5, 2013)

I've got all the NASCAR bodies that fit the wide TCR chassis, some not in too good shape, but usable. I have some of the '40 Ford coupes but they don't fit because of the wheelbase. I have modified a couple, but they just don't look right with the front fenders and grill so far out in front of the wheels.

I've been thinking about the "57 Chevy hardtop and Nomad wagon. I had a '56 and a '57 hardtop and two '57 Nomads during my 1/1th scale car years. I also am wondering about the '57 T-bird and the '60 Corvette. I couldn't afford them for real, but I'd like to now, at least as slotless cars. If I just knew what fit what or even what the wheelbases were, maybe I could hunt down a few more bodies.

Two guys in the club are also into Tyco, but couldn't shed any light one what fits what. Tyco making so many different chassis and bodies over the years is a problem. One of them suggested that I look into cast resin or clear plastic racing bodies. 

Stumpy in Ahia:wave:


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## slotcardan (Jun 9, 2012)

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## mrstumpy (Oct 5, 2013)

It sounds as if all the changes in the Tyco line over the years and the bodies made for each just adds to the confusion. Wide chassis, narrow chassis, long wheelbase, short wheelbase, and different body mount systems is a mess! Some bodies appear to have been made in two versions, so how do you tell which is which? And that's before Mattel took over! No wonder I can't figure out which bodies snap onto TCR chassis with the right wheelbase and mounting lugs.

Meanwhile, Aurora stayed pretty much the same, so the AFX bodies interchange with the Speedsteer chassis and so do the Auto World X-Traction and some Tomy AFX bodies. The more I learn about Tyco, the better I like Aurora!

And as if that's not enough, I just ran onto a whole box full of Ideal TCR track and a couple of controllers. Now what am I gonna' do? I don't need MORE problems.

Stumpy in Ahia:freak:


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## slotcardan (Jun 9, 2012)

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## mrstumpy (Oct 5, 2013)

I've been having a lot of trouble accessing HobbyTalk this weekend. This has happened before, but not for a while. I have to log on two or three times to stay on. Don't know if it's the site or "Crumbcast Infinity" or both. It's slow anyway because of all the ads.

I e-mailed then called Bob at Slot Car Central with the same question about Tyco bodies, and he was helpful on several questions, but could not tell me exactly which bodies fit either. The TCR chassis is "wide type with short wheelbase." 

As we know, the TCR chassis is a Tyco version of the Aurora Speedsteer chassis, so it wouldn't necessarily fit any of the Tyco slot car line. It must be pure accident that some bodies have the right mounting lugs AND correct wheelbase. I think it's time for some experimenting on my part. 

As to using AFX bodies on Speedsteer chassis, you're right, some will fit, but not well. For instance the Shadow Can-Am body is a pain to mount and remove as are the truck tractors, while others don't fit tight enough. 

With the Auto World bodies, again you're right, some are a bit too wide and rub against the wall enough to "sand" the paint off with long use.

I also tried Tomy bodies which fit well and are the right width, but ride rather high on the chassis.

I have accumulated a stockpile of battered and scratched bodies by various manufacturers, so mad butchery is about to begin!

Stumpy in Ahia:wave:


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## slotcardan (Jun 9, 2012)

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## twolff (May 11, 2007)

Fooled with the Aurora xlerators a few years back. They were capable of running 4 cars at once with different pickup shoes and diode polarity (chassis labeled 1-4). Spent a lot of time cleaning track and building cars from parts. Building the cars was enjoyable work. Managed to get 4 runners, but only one "pair". Second pair chassis were difficult to find and I never did get all 4. As I learned and read, I found the Achilles's heel of the track system was the AC power supply. Basically, very under powered. The way it worked was ingenious, but it failed to really deliver because it was made affordable and safe. Each of the 4 cars would get power from the positive OR negative pulse of the AC power from two of three rails allowing the control of 4 separate cars. The affect on the cars was similar to running multiple cars on the same lane of a standard track.
My son and I did get them working and ran them for a few months. A figure 8 layout that was oval on one side (high banked turn) and a square oval at the other provided a track that a car could be run flat out, but a controlled car was faster so you could lock a controller down full and race the "jam car" with the other. It was challenging and the passing had to be timed right.
The weak part of the cars was the "clutch" that allowed the rear axle to spin free when the motor power was off. I eventually wore out all the clutches I had and never found a way to refurbish or repair the plastic spur gear. I kept a couple of the arms and bodies. The rest of the parts went to eBay. Sadly, the track is in a landfill somewhere because I couldn't give it away.


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## slotcardan (Jun 9, 2012)

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## mrstumpy (Oct 5, 2013)

Dan...Your knowledge has been invaluable to we newer slotless fans. After reading and re-reading your tycotcrracing website over and over and your posts here, I'm getting better and better at this slotless thing. Enough that I think I've spurred some local interest here!

I took a sampling of slotless cars and a small oval track to a hobby show to demonstrate and it got a lot of interest. Some of this ended as soon as they found out that this was out of production for twenty years. But I picked up three, maybe four guys who are seriously interested. I sent them to your website for education and directed them to Slot Car Central for info and items for sale. We'll see where this leads (if anywhere.)

My car club (1/1th scale) is having a toy and hobby show at the local library next month, and I'm taking the same stuff to demonstrate there. Slotless will never be widely popular, but it has a little potential for a few of we older guys who remember it and like unique things.

Stumpy in Ahia:thumbsup:


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## slotcardan (Jun 9, 2012)

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## mrstumpy (Oct 5, 2013)

I've seen the Carrera and another digital lane changing track in videos and tried a Scalectrix digital track a local toy store uses as a demonstrator set up. You can run half a dozen cars individually, and can change lanes, but only where there is a crossing section of track and it's still a slot car, not slotless racing.

The reaction I got at the show was amazement. How does it run without a slot? How does it change lanes? And all sorts of other questions. Lots of interest, but so far only two of those I figured were REALLY interested have e-mailed me with further interest. Well, maybe I'll do better at the car club sponsored event, more "car people" come to it!

I've worked over some Tyco TCR track to make my "portable speedway" look a tad more realistic. I painted the outside walls white, scratch built some billboards, a flagman's stand, and an officials tower/press box building. I have two Tyco Jam Car chassis with the Tyco truck tractor bodies that I made wrecker beds for. They warm up the track and sit in the infield "ready to clean up wrecks." It makes for a nice display.

Lately, I've been experimenting with all kinds of HO slot car bodies to see what I can modify to fit the TCR or Speedsteer chassis. (The guys in the slot car club have plenty of well used bodies available!) I turned three Auto World T-jet Vega bodies into Modifieds that fit over Speedsteer chassis for Stock Car racing so far. They are glued on since I couldn't make mounts for them.

Ah, the fun never ends!:thumbsup:

Stumpy in Ahia :wave:


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## slotcardan (Jun 9, 2012)

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## mrstumpy (Oct 5, 2013)

I've been using Walther's GOO, which is basically a heavy duty version of rubber cement. Like many of the old style glues like it, it is messy and stringy. And it is also an odd product that's strength differs with the way you use it. 

If you apply a little to one part and stick it to another right away, it dries with some flexibility like silicone bathroom caulk and can be rubbed, peeled, or scratched off later. I've used silicone sealers (NOT silicone glues) the same way for non-permanent needs.

If you apply it to two large flat areas, let it sit for a few minutes and then stick it together, if works more like contact cement that is a real bear to get back apart. Obviously, this is NOT how I use it for body mounting!

Back to the subject of "spreading the word; I remember some years ago that there was a slot car website forum called "HO World" or something like that which had a lot of people on it. But I can't find it by Google search.

I still haven't given up on creating something like a Yahoo Group for slotless enthusiasts, but it's kind of "on the back burner" for the moment. 

Stumpy in Ahia:thumbsup:


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## carlosnseattle (May 12, 2009)

*Wish I had seen this post a couple years ago*

I know this thread is a couple years old.

My favorite is Speed Steer, but I also love TCR and Carrera Servo 140 slotless systems. I got Dan started on the Carrera Servo stuff; he made a set that could run 4 slotless cars on the same track, or even 8 with a little more effort and less reliability.

Most people have never heard of Carrera Servo but in some ways it was the best system. It used 4 power rails so each car had it's own power, not the common rail like in TCR and the other HO slotless sets. This allowed them to use a separately controlled jam car whose speed could be set independently of the passing cars; it truly was an amazing system. Servo came in 3 different scales; 1/60, 1/40, and 1/32. 1/40 was the sweet spot because of the weight of the cars and the size allowed for some nice details. the larger cars were really heavy and expensive, and the HO cars just didn't look right, really large rear wheels primarily.

I learned a lot from Dan about tuning and hopefully helped him with a few things too. His mind is amazing and he keeps going and going and going.

other than Dan and I, I can say that I've personally befriended slotless guys in Miami, Virginia, North Carolina, Louisiana, and another guy here in Seattle. I've traded cars parts and information with all of those guys are people over the last few years.


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## slotcardan (Jun 9, 2012)

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