# WARNING Don't try this! elf murder :(



## Gear Head (Mar 22, 2005)

Well, I succeeded in destroying my nearly "minty" elf g plus car. I recently was going through my gplus stuff and thought I'd save a couple and let the rest go. Unfortunately, this was one of the ones that I wanted to keep! Stupid me for trying to remove the chassis from the body to lube it!


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## sethndaddy (Dec 4, 2004)

was it all the aurora blue? or just the elf?


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## plymouth71 (Dec 14, 2009)

Wow. Sorry to hear that man.


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## ajd350 (Sep 18, 2005)

The ELF seems to be more prone to the brittleness than most others. I've had a few that were the same way. That sucks, man.


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

I put a mint blue superbird in my slot car box. The next time I opened it it was in pieces.


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## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

yep the ELFs are the worst for some reason.


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## philo426 (Mar 4, 2009)

WEll the breaks look clean so you may be able to glue it back together.I am glad my Ferrari Daytona G-Plus dosen't suffer the same malady!


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

Ouch! That just isn't right.
There are some bodies that are so hard to get on and off that I am amazed they don't break. The Aurora AFX McLaren comes quickly to mind, as well as all the G-Plus indy cars.

Joe


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## bobwoodly (Aug 25, 2008)

You can use testors to glue it back together and sand/buff out the seams. Then back brush the whole body with testors to add some flexibility. I think Bill Hall's Model Murdering thread will have helpful info.


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## sjracer (May 25, 2008)

I'm in agreement with Sethndaddy and Grandcheapskate from everybody I ever spoke and articles/posts I've read the aurora dark blue plastice cars tend to be very brittle. Also, having a few of the original f1 g plus (es) they are extremely hard to get off the body regardless of color. I experienced a similar fate with my Essex Lotus, I guess some cars are destined to be trailer queens.


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

I guess there are no more dark blue phones around???


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

*...years lost in the way back*

I've done a few Elfs, including "rebarring" a mint one for Coach. This consisted of a full gusset of the shovel nose, the wimpy front wheel box section, longitudinal gusseting of the rear section and boxing in the vertical wing stays. Naturally the added testors restored considerable pliability to the body, but the current status of the model is unknown. Maybe Coach will pipe up. The pix are on a disc somewheres. 

If I had any advice for Elf owners it would be to remove the body (see below) and take a few thou off the rectangular body retaining tabs inside the body. By doing so you'll decrease the amount of force required to clear the tabs from the chassis for body removal. It's all about how far ya gotta pry the sides to clear the tabs. 

Shrinkage is the enemy. Although the the sides are quite thick and the remainder of the body is quite thin; breakage is wildly unpredictable. 

If you must, to hedge your bets, you can drop the whole nine yards into warm water and let it acclimate. Then carefully massage the body off the chassis and blow out the chassis. At that point you can shave the tabs. A sharpfile is the ticket. To re-install, repeat the process. It should snap on more cooperatively.

Sorry about your loss.


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## cwbam (Feb 8, 2010)

# 54 McLaren XLR blue had the same humpty dumpty result

I blamed the 40* day and playing in the garage

a new meaning for the blues?


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

Bill Hall said:


> If you must, to hedge your bets, you can drop the whole nine yards into warm water and let it acclimate. Then carefully massage the body off the chassis and blow out the chassis. At that point you can shave the tabs. A sharpfile is the ticket. To re-install, repeat the process. It should snap on more cooperatively.


Bill,
I was just about to ask if there is something that can be done before you remove a body to make it easier - or make the body temporarily more pliable. Other than the warm water treatment, are there other methods? I'm guessing doing it it a warm environment (as opposed to a cold garage or cool/cold basement) after the body has had a chance to acclimate, would also be important.

By the way, remember that thread on whitening your cars by soaking in peroxide? The one car I let sit in peroxide for a couple days eventually faded in color, and then just the other day it snapped in two. I would not doubt the peroxide makes the body more brittle.

Joe


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## pshoe64 (Jun 10, 2008)

The #20 Thunderbirds are notorious as well. I watched one disintegrate during a hardbody race. It was nerfed in a turn, not enough to deslot, and that side of the body splintered as it continued on down the track. I have used Bill's recommendation of brushing a few light coats of goop glue on the inside of the blue AFX bodies to make them less brittle. For whatever reason, that color plastic drinks the stuff up. Still scared to death to run one on the track anymore. 

-Paul


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

Still trying to get my Tbird back together...


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

Skate: 

I'm confident that any type of passive "warmth" transfer can help with pliability issues; but there's no such thing as guarantees with 40 year old plastic toys. Rather, I always try to anticipate the worst and proceed with caution. I would agree that a more gradual acclimation whatever the method would lessen the chances for dissater; whether it's prying an old AFX snappy body from it's chassis or trying to coax ancient T-jet screws from their posts. 

Ya really cant imagine how many T-jets/AFX I've had chip, crack and explode....yet I persist.

As for peroxide, it is....well....uh....an oxidizer. The technique funneled down from Toy restorers/collectors and made it's way to HT through one of the membership. If memory serves there was some discourse regarding the pitfalls of prolonged exposure. I've had excellent results save for a couple of occassions... a Turquoise Mako that I left in too long (forgot about) and it actually bleached out the plastic. Same with an ancient slate Splitwindow 'Vette that I caught in time before it really bleached it to death. I ferget what the other one was but it was olive. They all had one thing in common....they were ancient, almost chalky; which is indicative of prolonged exposure and thus severe outgassing. Conversly, I've forgotten others with no ill effect, but I do have a recollection that they were in better shape with respect their chemical age. There may be something to it because it makes me go....hmmmmmm? 

My suspicion is that bodies which are chemically older (not necessarily chronologically), those which have out gassed more severely for whatever reason; are susceptible to leaching their dye/color. PURELY suspicion and conjecture at this point; however we do know that exposure to UV, heat or caustics will accelerate outgassing and thus brittleness. If memory serves, it is the active ingredient in denture cleaners; so it comes as no surprise that removal of dye or stains and bleaching are to be expected at some point. 

To my mind it's no stretch that peroxide could accelerate chemical aging by either adding to either the UV or heat effects or even alone and unto itself due to prolonged exposure.

If there's one thing that I've learned, it's that there are no absolutes where vintage plastic is concerned. While there are always similarities. There are too many variables to ever definitavely predict every outcome. It is a fine balance that is always somewhat shrouded because the little buggers cant talk or tell us the woes they have suffered in the past.


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## 41-willys (Jan 7, 2000)

Here is my granaded Elf that I Frankenstein glued piece by piece back together so I can run it on my track


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## Rawafx (Jul 20, 1999)

Also beware of tan-colored T-Jets. I have had three break, a Galaxie convertible, a Maserati, and a Hot Rod convertible. I tried to glue the Galaxie back together but then it would break in another place.
Has anyone noticed that there have been more tan T-Jets for sale on EBAY recently?

Bob Weichbrodt
[email protected]
Winston-Salem, NC


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## Jisp (Oct 19, 2008)

Several years ago I won a Blue AFX Ferrari 512 from the auction site. While removing the body to inspect the chassis, the body just fell to pieces in my hands. It's the only old body I've ever had that happen to. Interesting that it too, was blue. I glued it up and still run it (and try to avoid heavy impacts).

Cheers,
Michael.


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## Joe65SkylarkGS (Feb 15, 2010)

I too have broken Elf's in stock unfortunatley, but all racing incidents.

My broken AFX exp was with a #3 white and blue 70 camaro. Went to pull the chassis off and a nice side chunk came off in my hands  I thought to myself, What have I done??

So I am very easy with when it comes to vintage slots.


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

Question...

Have the bodies which you've broken belonged to you since they were new, or are they used bodies you have picked up along the way? If they were new bodies always in your possession, did you store them in any very hot or cold places for prolonged periods?

The reason I ask is to see if the bodies that have broken have a known or unknown history. In other words, how have they been treated in the past.

Thanks...Joe


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

Santa's not gonna be happy about this...


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## videojimmy (Jan 12, 2006)

had that happen to me once... freakin' drag. I used a small screwdriver to gently lift the tab out of the slot now.


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## foxkilo (Mar 27, 2008)

I don't know what it really is but IMHO it's due to the colour. I remember my old Airfix a/c models and some colours where out of the box more brittle then others, e.g. white was strong, black was less flexible where as red was the proverbial pain in the lower regions of the backside.

One question though Bill does AFX bodies do solve in Testors? Where as Tjets are pretty easy to mend with normal plastic cement the AFXs are some how not effected by that stuff. It seems to me Aurora used a different kind of stuff for them bodies. Its the same with Fallers, normal bodies no probs but the lower part ofthe faller trucks you can only do by superglue or 2 component stuff.

Mario


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## win43 (Aug 28, 2006)

And don't forget .............. ANY tan Aurora tjet body. Can you say brittle??


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## 41-willys (Jan 7, 2000)

NTxSlotCars said:


> Santa's not gonna be happy about this...


that is fixable, wont be pretty, but fixable


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## ajd350 (Sep 18, 2005)

It's just a flesh wound.......


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## foxkilo (Mar 27, 2008)

ajd350 said:


> It's just a flesh wound.......


Could it be that you have been exposed for too long to a certain kind of movies, especially Monthy Python and the holy grail?


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## ajd350 (Sep 18, 2005)

Can't happen, never too much.


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

foxkilo said:


> I don't know what it really is but IMHO it's due to the colour. I remember my old Airfix a/c models and some colours where out of the box more brittle then others, e.g. white was strong, black was less flexible where as red was the proverbial pain in the lower regions of the backside.
> 
> One question though Bill does AFX bodies do solve in Testors? Where as Tjets are pretty easy to mend with normal plastic cement the AFXs are some how not effected by that stuff. It seems to me Aurora used a different kind of stuff for them bodies. Its the same with Fallers, normal bodies no probs but the lower part ofthe faller trucks you can only do by superglue or 2 component stuff.
> 
> Mario


Well,

It's been my observation that it's many things within a certain type of plastic. It's primarily color, then add or subtract for density, and divide by chemical age/exposure.

I'm kinda kidding about the formula/math, as an overview though, not so much kidding. It's not exact. It's all about TENDENCIES and INFLUENCES. One of these days I'll sit down and put it on paper FWIW.

Vintage AFX bodies repsond in the same manner to Testors 3502 as the Vibrator and T-jet models. I cant comment on the later Tomy/AFX or any ROW stuff. I've had some success with the ancient Faller plastic and catastrophic failure with other "middle of the vintage era" Faller bodies. I figure they changed something in the way of formulation. A precursor to, or the European cousin to todays milk jug plastic. Much the same fashion as the later Aurora plated cigar box, and the modern version plastic as seen in AW products.

I never use epoxies, and rarely open the CA. I consider them a contaminent to the process. The process either works on a body or it doesnt. That which doesnt, gets left by the wayside.


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## foxkilo (Mar 27, 2008)

Thanks Bill,

any wild guess with which substance one can substitued Testors as it is not that readily available over here?


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

*Kleber*

hmmmmm....

I would guess that Uhu makes a liquid solvent plastic welder...? 

MEK is the only ingredient listed on the Testors 3502 bottle. Straight MEK is not a substitue based on past experimentation; so one would assume that there are other ingredients at play.

I'd look for a plastic welder that contains MEK. In practice it should leave a bit of a shine when applied.


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## foxkilo (Mar 27, 2008)

Thanks Bill for your effort,

looking back I reckon I must have tried most of the liquid welders available on the market Faller, Kibri, UHU, Revell, Airfix, Humbrol yyou name it. It a point intime one or another seemed to be superior to rest. They probably came up with new formulas. But now I think most of the stuff has been "detoxified" like taking the most of the alc out of beer. For example the really old Faller stuff was good, just try to dismantle an old Faller kit, itbgets apart anywhere but not at the welding. But today you have to put a lot care into welding that stuff. The old stuff even smelled more lethal. Even salad oil you be used to solve plastic. I once a Tamiya tank whose turret I lubricated with salad oil and that stuff really got to the material, albeit on a small scale but never the less it did. 

But I think our stuff was/is never intended to be mended. Hey Kids, use it, destroyit, buy new stuff.

Mario


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## tjd241 (Jan 25, 2004)

*If I had a nickle for every one of these that happened...*



Joe65SkylarkGS said:


> I thought to myself, What have I done??
> .


Geez... I can't even talk comfortably about a couple of 'em in mixed company. :drunk: .... I'll second the motion on the seemingly super-strength vintage glues of yore... I tried to disassemble an old Heljan building a few months back and rehab it the "right" way.... Let's just say the shine was off that apple real fast. Needless to say... I just settled for painting as it sat.


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## Gareth (Mar 8, 2011)

Now I'm in mourning. Just snapped one of my blue Dodge Daytonas trying to fit a new X-Traction chassis underneath it. All I can say is thank heavens the blue car is the easiest to get hold of and at least it wasn't my yellow or orange ones! 

Still sad though.


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