# Removing Wax??



## eradicator178 (Sep 3, 2008)

Is there a way that anyone might know of to remove Future floor wax from a model without damaging the acrylic paint that is underneath?


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

Future is not a wax but rather something more like an acrylic paint. Windex will remove Future, but it will also remove most acrylic paints. 

If your model was painted with a solvent based paint like an enamel, a Windex bath would do the trick.


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## Mark McGovern (Apr 25, 1999)

e-rad,

As djnick66 has posted, that which removes Future will also remove acrylic paint. If you're trying to preserve your acrylic appication but want to alter the Future coat - I presume to dull down the shine - you have options. Mixing Future with Tamiya flat base at around a 50-50 ratio will produce a really flat clear finish. Of course, you can dull Future with Testors Dullcote as well.


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## Dyonisis (Nov 11, 2009)

eradicator178 said:


> Is there a way that anyone might know of to remove Future floor wax from a model without damaging the acrylic paint that is underneath?





djnick66 said:


> Future is not a wax but rather something more like an acrylic paint. Windex will remove Future, but it will also remove most acrylic paints.
> 
> If your model was painted with a solvent based paint like an enamel, a Windex bath would do the trick.


This is exactly why I never endorse the practice of using it on models. Now do you guys understand? 


~ Chris​


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## Mark McGovern (Apr 25, 1999)

Dio,

I understand that *you* don't like it. I do, and so I use it. Occasional problems will crop up with any modeling material.


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

Dyonisis said:


> This is exactly why I never endorse the practice of using it on models. Now do you guys understand?
> 
> 
> ~ Chris​


No its not a rational argument. You can't easily remove Testors clear flat or gloss lacquer, Tamiya X-22 gloss, Gunze Mr. Top Coat, etc. either. And, actually, if the model had been painted with an enamel or lacquer paint, removing Future is quite simple and easy.


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## robiwon (Oct 20, 2006)

Future is acrylic. If you use it over acrylic paint and try and strip it you are going to effect your acrylic color coat. If you use a lacquer clear over a lacquer color coat and try and strip it, your'e going to remove the color coat, etc... It's best to use a different paint for your clear than you used for your color coat, that way you can strip your clear without stripping your color coat. It has nothing to do with there being anything _*wrong*_ with Future


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

robiwon said:


> It's best to use a different paint for your clear than you used for your color coat, that way you can strip your clear without stripping your color coat.


Now _that_ sounds reasonable.


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## robiwon (Oct 20, 2006)

To the OP, can you give us more detail on _why_ you need to remove the Future? There may be another, easier solution to your problem.


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## Dyonisis (Nov 11, 2009)

Mark McGovern said:


> Dio,
> 
> I understand that *you* don't like it. I do, and so I use it. Occasional problems will crop up with any modeling material.


I understand, but why make it more difficult than you have to? Using a product that isn't designed for a particular use is only inviting trouble. 

~ Chris​


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## robiwon (Oct 20, 2006)

It's acrylic based, it's O.K. to use. Just like someone can use nail polish on a model if done properly.


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

Dyonisis said:


> I understand, but why make it more difficult than you have to? Using a product that isn't designed for a particular use is only inviting trouble.
> 
> ~ Chris​


Well its formulation is really not much different than Tamiya clear gloss. Windex will remove that too (but will also remove acrylic paint). The problem isn't in Future itself, which is pretty inert, but in what paint you use underneath. IF the model had been painted with an enamel paint you could strip the Future off with a spritz of Windex. 

Assuming he did not use Future, tell me what model product he could apply over acrylic paint that he could wash off?


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## robiwon (Oct 20, 2006)

I think at this point I'm done trying to defend the use of Future on models. I use it, others use it, have been for years, just like any other product we use to build models wether it comes from a modeling related company or not, if you know how to use it properly, it's O.K. to use. Just read and learn.

I leave you with this-
http://www.swannysmodels.com/TheCompleteFuture.html


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

From Wikipedia: _"Psychologist Karl Duncker defined functional fixedness as being a "mental block against using an object in a new way that is required to solve a problem.""_ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Functional_fixedness

The usual example is the refusal to use a dime to turn a screw when a screwdriver is not available.

Maybe the makers of Future chose to use clear acrylic in a new way: as a finish for floors. If that were true, then we may be using the product for its original purpose ... just in a new packaging. At any rate, it works as an acrylic clearcoat.


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

whats interesting is that AFAIK "Future" as a modeling product is a fairly recent phenomenon or fad. But I found some references to using it as a clear gloss "paint" back in late 70s or early 80s model magazines like the now defunct Scale Modeler or Military Modeler.


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## Dyonisis (Nov 11, 2009)

SteveR said:


> From Wikipedia: _"Psychologist Karl Duncker defined functional fixedness as being a "mental block against using an object in a new way that is required to solve a problem.""_ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Functional_fixedness
> 
> The usual example is the refusal to use a dime to turn a screw when a screwdriver is not available.
> 
> Maybe the makers of Future chose to use clear acrylic in a new way: as a finish for floors. If that were true, then we may be using the product for its original purpose ... just in a new packaging. At any rate, it works as an acrylic clearcoat.


 I understand what you guys are saying, but this scenario doesn't apply here. There are times when you can substitute one thing for another, but this isn't like using a dime instead of a flat tip screw driver! Chemical formulation isn't like turning on a lightswitch! You have to be very careful as not all modeling products are compatible with each other, neither is the use of everyday household products no matter how hard you try to justify it! Now if Future decided to formulate a clear coat for models, we would never have this discussion again. But seeing as more people clean, and polish their floors, and there's a bigger market for it than there is for clear coat that is safe to use on plastic models, I don't see that happening any time soon! Unless somehow everyone in the world got sick of videogames then decided that self entertainment was the key to enlightenment, then I would say otherwise. 

This is why I only use automotive acrylic on my models, so that I can paint them without damaging them, _and _so that I know the paint will be durable enough to wetsand, then rub out without burning through it. I understand that you can't use gloss on all models, especially FLAT coloured military models, but there ARE companies that make "Ultraflat" clear coat in a polyurethane formulation to avoid paint incompatibility. 

~ Chris​


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

Dyonisis said:


> Now if Future decided to formulate a clear coat for models, we would never have this discussion again. But seeing as more people clean, and polish their floors, and there's a bigger market for it than there is for clear coat that is safe to use on plastic models, I don't see that happening any time soon! .
> 
> This is why I only use automotive acrylic on my models, so that I can paint them without damaging them
> 
> ~ Chris​


This is not a compatability issue. Going by your first stComatement here, how could Future reformulate itself to be more like, say, Tamiya X22 clear gloss? If the modeler who asked the original question had put x22 on top of an acrylic paint job, he still would not be able to strip it off. Nor could he remove Testors Acryl clear flat, Testors Clear Flat Lacquer etc.

Compatability doesn't mean "reversible". Im not sure you can remove polyurathane off of a model very easily without damaging the original paint either.


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## robiwon (Oct 20, 2006)

You only use "automotive acrylic" paints on your models? Doesn't that go against your stance on if it's not formulated for model use, don't use it? Automotive acrylics were designed for autos not model cars, _you_ should not use them then.


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## eradicator178 (Sep 3, 2008)

*I Goofed!!*



robiwon said:


> To the OP, can you give us more detail on _why_ you need to remove the Future? There may be another, easier solution to your problem.


I was trying to do pantyhose with a mix of brown artist ink and future. My airbrush went haywire and it sprayed on way to heavy. But the paint on the legs was perfect. I did not want to screw that up so I was trying to see if there was a way to strip the future without screwing up the paint. Unfortunately the paint was acrylic also. But I have it fixed now after four flippin' trips to the strip bucket!! :drunk:


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## Dyonisis (Nov 11, 2009)

robiwon said:


> You only use "automotive acrylic" paints on your models? Doesn't that go against your stance on if it's not formulated for model use, don't use it? Automotive acrylics were designed for autos not model cars, _you_ should not use them then.





djnick66 said:


> This is not a compatability issue. Going by your first stComatement here, how could Future reformulate itself to be more like, say, Tamiya X22 clear gloss? If the modeler who asked the original question had put x22 on top of an acrylic paint job, he still would not be able to strip it off. Nor could he remove Testors Acryl clear flat, Testors Clear Flat Lacquer etc.
> 
> Compatability doesn't mean "reversible". Im not sure you can remove polyurathane off of a model very easily without damaging the original paint either.


 I'll answer both of these questons with this single post. Paint compatibility ensures that your models won't melt surface-wise with subsequent layers of paint if they are COMPATIBLE. Meaning that you wouldn't use lacquer over enamel, or over acrylic. It's too hot, and it will wrinkle the finish. 

Robert: Automotive finishes are PAINT - not a POLISH meant for floors. The paint is formulated for be just that - paint! Not meant to be cross referenced with other types of chemicals that are not meant for painting surfaces. FUTURE has chemicals in it that allow it to dry, but just because of that it doesn't mean that it's safe to put on top of any old thing. :freak: It also has other chemicals in it that AREN'T in paint! These things don't "flash off", or dry out of the surface completely to provide a polishable surface not intended to be sprayed without a rubbing action to provide a highly reflective surface on floors. You can't call something a polish if the surface doesn't dry because it will leave prints, or patterns where something has rubbed against it. I don't understand why all the indignant comments defending the use of Future, when it's obvious that not everyone has, or will have the same results that you've had using it for an unintended purpose. This also creates a conflict of interest between users of actual paint, and those who use whatever so, and so uses just because they read in a magazine, or website. Meaning that not everyone is going to agree, but the bottom line is: if you're going to use something that isn't intended for the purpose YOU intend to use it for - don't be surprised when catastrophy strikes!! 

~ Chris​


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## robiwon (Oct 20, 2006)

I read years ago, an article in Fine Scale Modeler magazine, about the use of Future and how it can make clear parts appear thinner and more "glass" like. I also read an article in Scale Auto Enthusiast about how Future can be used as a substitute to the average gloss coats. Being a true modeler, I was intrigued. I wanted to try this new technique for myself. I researched online how other modelers have used Future and the best way to apply it for different useages. I found many online articles detailing how people used it, how to thin it if needed, how to airbrush it and how to dip parts in it. After a lot of reading on the topic I bought a bottle of Future. The first model part I tried it on was the canopy of a Tamiya A-10 Warthog, seen below. Pics are clickable.



The decals were also applied over Future to eliminate silvering over the flat paint that was used on the fuselage. The canopy turned out fantastic! It really did appear to be "clearer" and more glass like.

Future was also applied to the acrylic painted tin foil used as the water underneath this Flying sub model. To give it a nice wet look.



Future was also "brushed" onto this highly moddified Star Trek Tricorder. 



Future was also "brushed" onto this Pegasus Dragonslayer model.



This Bladerunner Spinner has a large window. When it comes time, it too will be dipped in Future.



With these few examples of mine, I think it's pretty clear (no pun intended) that Future can be used on models just fine. None of these models are ruined, none have fallen apart or been melted away, turned green or become moldy. There are a lot of modelers out there that use Future on their models with great results. I just don't understand why you, who has never used Future, are so adament about trying to persuade others from not trying it when it is obviously a useful and handy alternative to other methods regardless of its original intended market? Maybe you should go pick up a bottle, dip a windshield in it, and then marvel at the simplicity of its use and the effects it can produce yourself. I think I have pretty much proven that Future can be used on models successfuly. What do you think?


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

Chris your own descriptions of Future are so far off base... it is not a polish or wax. It is a clear acrylic paint. Future itself is really not that much different than Tamiya X22 clear gloss. Using Future on a model is no different than using Humbrol, Gunze and Lifecolor paints on a model. You, yourself, say you use Automotive lacquers. Those are not intended for model use by any means (not that you can't use them). If you use Future on the floor you do not POLISH it like you would buff out a scratch on a Buick. It is not a polishing compound ( I know I use it on my floors (gasp)). It is, for the most part, a clear acrylic paint for your floor to make it look glossy. You scrub and mop your floor down to get it nice and clean, then top it off with Future and let dry. 

Yeah it has stuff to make it dry - thats called a DRIER and its in most paints and you can buy it in an art supply store to add to paints like Testors gloss enamels that never dry.

Assuming the modeler who asked the original question had painted his model with acrylic paint then topped it with Tamiya clear gloss or Testors Acryl, HOW would the problem be any different than it is with Future? Things that will strip off an acrylic top coat will strip off an acrylic paint. Using a so called model product here would make zero difference.


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## zike (Jan 3, 2009)

djnick66 said:


> Chris your own descriptions of Future are so far off base... it is not a polish or wax. It is a clear acrylic paint. Future itself is really not that much different than Tamiya X22 clear gloss.


^^^^

This is correct.

I want to add that I first started using Future on models in 1999 after having read about it's use for many years. It's use on models is NOT a recent development.

Anyone thinking that the use of Future is inappropriate should head over to a model aircraft forum like Hyperscale where probably more than half to models built use Future in some form. Check out the pictures in their Plastic Pix forum and see top quality work done with Future.

I will tell you that I've had a model published in Finescale Modeler that was entirely coated with Future and where Future was used as a decalset (I'm trying to keep my anonymity on the internet so I don't republish my pics online...so you can take my word for it or just assume I'm full of crap  ).


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

I'd like to say "it's the Future of modeling,", but it's more like the _present_ ... a gift from SC Johnson. 

BTW, they call it a "finish" not a polish, nor a wax: "A premium finish for beautiful shine and durable acrylic protection." And there's no rubbing involved: "Thoroughly clean floor with Pledge® Floor Cleaner, let floor dry, then spread Pledge® Floor Finish evenly with a clean sponge mop, cloth or other applicator. Pledge® Floor Finish will normally dry in 20–30 minutes." To me, it's clear acrylic paint being used on floors and models, too! Just look at that shine, honey!


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

Originally the bottle (this stuff goes back 40 years) said wax... Its not, though. Johnson has changed the name and label a couple times in the last 2 or 3 years too.


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## Dyonisis (Nov 11, 2009)

djnick66 said:


> Chris your own descriptions of Future are so far off base... it is not a polish or wax.


 I'm sure that SC Johnson & Sons would be astonished that they no longer make what they've called "No mop floor wax" since the dawning of this products' time!! 



djnick66 said:


> Yeah it has stuff to make it dry - thats called a DRIER and its in most paints and you can buy it in an art supply store to add to paints like Testors gloss enamels that never dry.


 I'm MORE than well aware of PAINT DRIERS. These are alcohols that are formulated into any type of covering that needs to stand up to constant wear. Of course not all paints have these in them as the other chemicals inside the formula flash off, or dry slowly by evaporation through the top of the film layer. I'm sure that a DD bra would make a great sling shot, but that doesn't mean that I'm going to go out, and buy one any time soon! :freak:

I'll take your word for it, Robert only I'm satisfied with the results that I get with lacquer, and enamels that I buy already. I don't have to use floor polish (which Future is) to add shine to my models. 

I think the original poster got the idea from this thread. I'm done here. I've said my peace, and I don't have to go any further - let's just agree to disagree. I've already unsubscribed to this thread, so I won't be able to read any other comments made after this one. Carry on one, and all. 

~ Chris​


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## robiwon (Oct 20, 2006)

But not having *any* experience with a product that you have *never* used, really does not give you the time of day to tell someone else not to use it.

I just posted a thread earlier today on how to use Future, based on *my experiences.*


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

For anyone still with any doubt that you can't use the stuff... check this out...

http://www.swannysmodels.com/TheCompleteFuture.html

This should be really helpful to anyone using Future on models for a variety of purposes. Note that the two bottles illustrated, again, DO NOT say wax or polish.


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## robiwon (Oct 20, 2006)

djnick66, agreed, I think we have pretty much made our point that Furture is not a "wax" and not a "polish" in the common use of those terms. Both of those terms, for the most part over history, have been used to describe something you can make "shiney". If you were to wax or polish your car, your going to make it shiney. Future gives you the same shiney effect without the need to actually "polish" with a rubbing motion a coating of "wax". Future was made to, using *modeling terms*, paint your floor with a gloss coat to make it shiney.

Future is a useful tool to have on the modeling desk for those who choose to give it a try. For those that do try it, I think you will be surprised at the results. I know I was. It will always be on my desk.


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## rkoenn (Dec 18, 2007)

Well as I've seen in one or two other posts Dyonisis/Chris gets rather vehement and know it all on what he thinks he knows. Most modelers have or use Future for many things and no matter how knowledgeable he acts he certainly doesn't know what he is talking about. I've sprayed entire models with it when I wanted a gloss finish and it is great, just make sure you keep them covered from dust while drying. And as so many modelers everywhere say it does clear plastic up like glass. Just my two cents worth and I've used it successfully many times.


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