# Nightshade's Layout - Revision 0



## Nightshade (Jan 15, 2006)

Hi all. It's been a while since I've been in. Lot's to do at work!

Anyway, I got a layout I'd like to show you and get feedback. It's both a 4 lane Tomy HO slot track and an HO train track.

Hopefully it comes out ok, and it's not too busy. I'm showing hills, lake, and even grade levels (e.g L1 - L3).

Please let me know what you think and I'm always looking for a better layout.

Thanks!

Nightshade

P.S. Hint: If a track collides, then there is a tunnel involved.

P.P.S. If anyone knows how I can present the drawing on this post a little better, please let me know. It's an AutoCAD converted to a JPEG, but I can make it whatever extension it needs to be. I'd just like it to show up a little larger....


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## 41-willys (Jan 7, 2000)

I like the look of your layout. I like to do elevation changes to my track but are still trying to decide what I like.


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## noddaz (Aug 6, 1999)

Nice...
Let us know how thing go during the build...
Scott


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## Nightshade (Jan 15, 2006)

Ok,

Trying this with the new download from GTycopro. Thanks GT.

If this works out, great! If not, please bear with me by being my guinea pigs.  

What I am really concerned about in this layout is the turns. Do I have enough good straight sections? Too many curves? Any feedback would be a help from those of you who have raced awhile. I can take criticism, kinda...

No, I can. :thumbsup: 

'Shade


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## Manning (Mar 2, 2004)

It's a good overall layout. Back straight is nearly 9 feet long. That's pretty good. Wish my layout had a straight that long. 

However....the back corner where the two sets of corners are on top of each other will be a nightmare. One or the other will be very difficult to see, and retrieving deslotted cars might be difficult. Make the lake a bit smaller so the inside corner can be well inside of the outer corner. Hope that made sense....


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## Nightshade (Jan 15, 2006)

Manning,

I totally understand. I am working on that upper left curve on AutoCAD as we...type? 

Thanks for the feedback.

'Shade


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## roadrner (Jul 21, 1999)

Definitely post progress pix. Thanks! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: rr


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## SplitPoster (May 16, 2006)

On the train track. I am building a combo layout too, with limited train track. One thought. If you ad a couple of turnouts on the left side, and run a double line across the trestle in the middle you could selectively isolate two loops without changing much of anything. I decided I'd like the option of running two trains at once if I wanted to, or switching one out while the other is still running. I don't have room for an interesting train layout, it just kind of ads to the scenery, but I've got a switcher with flat cars that looks just right hauling Aurora trestles and posts, maybe a hopper with gravel for those gravel traps too. I've got some passenger cars for the other loop.....

Just a thought.


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## Nightshade (Jan 15, 2006)

Good idea. I'll move the tressel down a bit too (i.e. move it to the right). That'd make the 2nd track a little larger.

I am modifying the first layout per Manning's comment (I'm not going to reduce the size of the lake, but build a bridge across it!), and then making a 2nd layout with less curves. 

I'll post them later on for everyone's experienced opinion, then build both and run them to see which one I like best before doing the scenery. Once I start the scenery, I will be close to the point of no return, hehe.

SplitPoster, you mentioned gravel pits..funny. The 6ft side on the far right is going to have a 1.5' x 6' x 6" deep trough built next to it. I am going to put "gravel" in it and set up a gravel pit that will allow gravel to be loaded onto the train. This is for my 5 year old. He can't wait to use his John Deere Excavators, Graders, and Backhoes in this mini sand box.

As an added 'bonus', I am also raising this table to the ceiling of my garage (in order to placate the 'boss'). I just built a model lat night so that I can get my lift points pinned down and be able to raise/lower it while level. Next stop...McMaster-Carr.

Phase one: I am using a crank style boat winch to do the lifting/lowering. Phase two: I will get a motorized one to do the lifting and lowering, hehe. It will be on folding legs when it is lowered to racing height, and the weighty gravel pit will not be lifted with the table...it gets attached once lowered. 

'bout time I use this Mechanical Engineering degree on something! :freak: 

I'll post pics throughout construction. I told the 5 year old I would get moving on this project before his 6th B-Day...September will be coming on fast!

'Shade


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

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## TGtycopro (Jun 1, 2006)

Nightshade said:


> Phase one: I am using a crank style boat winch to do the lifting/lowering. Phase two: I will get a motorized one to do the lifting and lowering, hehe. It will be on folding legs when it is lowered to racing height, and the weighty gravel pit will not be lifted with the table...it gets attached once lowered.
> 'Shade


Shade, Consider using a counterweight system rather than Winches. You can run the weights between studs if you have an unfinished garage.(make counterweights of Cement with 2 big eye bolt anchors in each. run chain from these to a heavy clevis which you can connect your cable too.)
Definitly use a good quality multi strand low stretch cable for each run that will handle at least double the weight of the entire layout to be safe. 
Is it possible to use 2 pullys on each end up to a rafter then across to each wall with counterweights for each cable?

I saw one somewhere where the guy used counterweights like this and had a steel bar He slid in place to hold the counterweights up. he then could disconnect his cables after setting the layout on portable saw horses.

( i knew i shoulda bookmarked that site grrrrrr )


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## Nightshade (Jan 15, 2006)

Not a bad idea. I've done that with old plastic weights for a door once. I am using aircraft cable. One cable can hold 4 tables up if need be. I am also using locks secured from the joists for when the table is in the 'up' position. That way, the only way it will come down by accident is if it's helped by a tornado!

I will be anchoring all using joists or cross tied into joists. I even know what my moments of deflection are, hehe.

Fortunately, my garage is finished AND _air conditioned_. I am in the deep South ya know, hehe. I'll have to get a space heater for that one day a year when it snows.  It actually can get cold down here. Being from Omaha, I didn't know that it can get down right nasty. I lived in N. Florida for a few years and it even got cold there for a week or two!

I'll have to think about your idea though....not a bad one. This weekend is frame building time. The lift phase is a couple weeks away yet.

'Shade


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## TGtycopro (Jun 1, 2006)

I remember the article i read about the counterweighted train layout........The guy said the nicest things about it was 
#1 - up and running in 2 minutes (drop, remove cable, plug in)
#2 - his old winch system had to be dropped slowly using 4 winches (couple cranks/move to next winch........ couple cranks/move........... couple cranks/move..... etc etc etc.
Oh, 1 thing i forgot....make sure you put something on the weight rigging for fine tuning your weights.
The cement will be the bulk but being able to add weight to get it Just right is important so, determine What you will use for fine tune weights (dumbells, old window weights etc) and make provisions for this with something.
say 2 - 3/4" steel pipe with an L (Or better yet 2 - 3 ways so you can have a leg below all the weight with a Pad for all this to come to rest on) sunk into(anchored)the cement giving you room for 3 or 4 dumbell weights and a weight lock. Also, you want a channel for it to ride in 1/8 or 1/4" thick x 2" angle iron (old bed frames might even do the job  )

If you cant picture what i mean let me know and i'll see if I can scribble something together for you. I remember seeing his diagram but i do not recall every particular


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## Nightshade (Jan 15, 2006)

Got it. A close to zero gravity system is what I'm aiming for. I'll send pics when it's done. 

About the guy and his 4 winches....I wonder why he didn't tie his 4 cables into 4 sheaves above the cable connections at the table, and then to a header and then one cable to another sheave and then down to the one winch. 

We've done that here at work several times, and my model with the odd 'L' shaped table worked well too, once I got the one anchor just where it needs to be for a balanced, level table while raising/lowering.....


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## TGtycopro (Jun 1, 2006)

Dont know and there were no pictures of the old system, just the new one (and not really enough of those)
Its been a while since i read that..........probobly close to 2 years.
At the time I was looking at some type of system for in my 12 x 16 shed for an HO 4x8 built on Plywood and framed with 1x8's (fully carpeted interior)

I ended up going with a hinged sytem........easy, simple, cheap


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## Nightshade (Jan 15, 2006)

AfxToo!

I totally missed your reply....don't have the foggiest how that happened, either. You're one of the top 5 or so that I look for feedback from. 

As to the symmetrical thing - garage door opener. I have hanging storage on the back side of the garage, so I have to put this table closer to the center of the garage. 

I thought of actually making it a 'U' shape around the garage door control box, but I don't know if the wife really wants a table over her car, hehe. I'm still playing with the idea though. That would be a nice touch to be able to stand in a central location.

As to the driver's station and the train, I'm glad I went back to this thread. That never even crossed my mind. I was about to post a second layout allowing more straights in the layout, but back to the drawing board. Cross-overs with the car's track on the outside. Much appreciated.

One thing I would like to ask.....I have most of the lumber now for the table, but have been looking back on past threads on table construction......Do I want to frame a hanging table with 1x4's or 2x4's? My experience is mostly in metal, not wood, and I'm worried about sag. My way of thinking is that my table wouldn't be much different than anyone else's. A table on the floor is supported at four or more points (in the case of an 'L' table), and so would mine....gravity doesn't care where those points are. Just wanted to get a feel about the tables out there that are framed in 1x4's.

Thanks!

'Shade


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## Nightshade (Jan 15, 2006)

*Ok...here are the 3 updated layouts.....*

Let me know which one you like. 

One has a small amount of track, one with a little more, and one with almost all the track I have!

I'm going to try each one for a while....but your experienced opinion is always appreciated.

Nightshade
Mike


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