# Hero J2 Landing Gear: the time has come!



## Ron Gross (Jan 2, 2009)

As most of you know, The landing gear parts that will be included with the Moebius J2 kit are based on the design from the full scale mock up. This decision will benefit those who place a priority on the interaction of the model with future scale figures.

My communication with fans over the years, however, has clearly indicated that there exists a large group who would prefer the external look of the "hero" J2 miniature in all respects, with full proportional integrity. Toward that end, I am pleased to announce that I have partnered with Paul Bodensiek and ParaGrafix to make the "hero" J2 landing gear available as an after market option. This is an officially licensed product of the highest quality, with the design and artwork approved by Kevin Burns. See images attached, and take special note of Paul's expert 3D rendition and refinement from my original hand drawn plans. Prototype images will be forthcoming.

The price has not yet been set, but expect it to be something in the range of Moebius' new gear set for the Flying Sub. Notice, in fact, that I decided to do the box art in that same basic style, as the "highlight against white" approach, originally introduced to me by Frank, also seemed like a perfect fit for this project. Paul will chime in soon with more details on the design, construction, and materials involved with this new product offering.

We tried very hard to hit a certain date for this announcement, but due to issues beyond our control, we missed it by a couple of days. That would have been September 22nd, which was the 44th anniversary of the original airing of "The Derelict." This, of course, was the episode during which the "hero" landing gear was revealed for the first time. The unforgettable SFX shot in question still holds up very well, in my opinion, even by today's high standards. 
Ron G.


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## kdaracal (Jan 24, 2009)

*Reiterate the difference?*

Sorry to be out of the loop, Ron. I've read lots of material here, but never really caught on to the differences. For us dum-dums, can you explain what this all means? or can anyone provide a visual comparison? Thanks for all your awesome work. You are highly respected!!!


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

Ron,
I've been working with this shot recently. It appears there are some wedge-shaped projections between the bottom of the fins and the lower surface of the core, to the left of the near gear leg. They're in all the frames of the shot. They don't seem to be due to a lighting anomaly. Can you tell us anything about them?

[IMG-LEFT]http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/attachment.php?attachmentid=91262&d=1253829432[/IMG-LEFT]


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## Paulbo (Sep 16, 2004)

kdaracal said:


> Sorry to be out of the loop, Ron. I've read lots of material here, but never really caught on to the differences. For us dum-dums, can you explain what this all means? or can anyone provide a visual comparison? Thanks for all your awesome work. You are highly respected!!!


Your wish is my command ... As a quick comparison: the full-sized set's landing gear is more slender and "dainty", while the hero miniature's gear is "beefier".

Here's a study Ron did of the two gear, based on drawings Moebius made of the kit gear. I superimposed the two images to make the comparison easier:



Also, here's the exploded view of our gear showing all of the pieces:



I'm still working on the final quotations for casting the metal parts (the left-hand portions including the landing pad, the lower portion of the main arm, and the upper bracket to attach the rod to the ship) and the laser cut pieces (the main gear portions).

One slight change we decided to make from Ron's original study is to alter the angle of the arm so that the top of the rod mates to the ship at the same mounting hole as the kit gear.

I hope to have the prototypes of the gear ready tomorrow and will post images as soon as Ron and I have a chance to go over them.


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## gojira61 (May 21, 2008)

*..SIGH...*more money to Paul.


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## Ron Gross (Jan 2, 2009)

toyroy said:


> Ron,
> I've been working with this shot recently. It appears there are some wedge-shaped projections between the bottom of the fins and the lower surface of the core, to the left of the near gear leg. They're in all the frames of the shot. They don't seem to be due to a lighting anomaly. Can you tell us anything about them?


I always assumed that it was a lighting anomaly, but now I will study it further.


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## Ron Gross (Jan 2, 2009)

kdaracal said:


> Sorry to be out of the loop, Ron. I've read lots of material here, but never really caught on to the differences. For us dum-dums, can you explain what this all means? or can anyone provide a visual comparison? Thanks for all your awesome work. You are highly respected!!!


kdaracal,
In addition to the superimposed image that Paul provided, I am reposting my A-B comparison image for your convenience. Note that we made a few changes since I did that study. For example, my first inclination was to retain the proportions of the hero gear, but then "dress them up" with familiar details to which one might be accustomed from seeing close up shots of the full scale gear. 

Notice the flexible "shock absorber" joint in lieu of the ball and socket suggestion on the drawing. Also, the lower angled front section of the leg is closed rather than being open as it was on the hero gear (as seen on another view). But then we decided that it would probably be best to just do the hero gear in all of its original detail, and leave the "dressing up" option up to the individual. All things considered, I think this is the right choice. The point is that whatever one decides to do with this new gear, the proportional integrity with respect to the hull contour will be fully intact. That means that you will be able to accurately duplicate the classic SFX scene on the J2 landing on the circle, if that is your preference.


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## fire91bird (Feb 3, 2008)

Thank you for your efforts on this, Ron and all involved. I agree with you that the hero proportions are ideal. The Moebius J2 with this gear has to be a high water mark for model kits. Can't wait!:thumbsup:


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## kdaracal (Jan 24, 2009)

Paul, Thanks for the superimposed image. 
Ron, Thanks for going the extra miles to make the very best model possible. The more I see, the more I can't wait for this to come out. About the only extras I will be getting is a nice decal kit (because I stink at painting small buttons) and a nice light set because it is just so COOL! Thanks again to Moebius and Ron for really making childhood dreams come true for this 46 year old.


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## teslabe (Oct 20, 2007)

Hi Paul, Ron,
I love all the work that went into this and you can count on me getting three
sets.....:thumbsup:


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## teslabe (Oct 20, 2007)

gojira61 said:


> *..SIGH...*more money to Paul.


He needs to pay for that Roll's he has.....


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## Paulbo (Sep 16, 2004)

teslabe said:


> He needs to pay for that Roll's he has.....


To keep people from thinking I'm doing too well, I've replaced the Rolls hood ornament with a medallion that says "Kia". 



kdaracal said:


> Paul, Thanks for the superimposed image.
> Ron, Thanks for going the extra miles to make the very best model possible. The more I see, the more I can't wait for this to come out. About the only extras I will be getting is a nice decal kit (because I stink at painting small buttons) and a nice light set because it is just so COOL! Thanks again to Moebius and Ron for really making childhood dreams come true for this 46 year old.


You're quite welcome. I hope the image cleared up any confusion.

Decals are in the works along with an etch set to make lighting much easier. I'm sure that Randy will have a lighting set that will work perfectly with this kit so it would be similar to working with the Flying Sub etch/decal/lighting set.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Those wedges look like shadowplay to me. Why would they only be on one quadrant of the core? They can easily be explained as shadows from the fins caused by a light from below/behind.


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## BlackbirdCD (Oct 31, 2003)

Well I would've bought these, except that you missed the anniversary of the first showing of "The Derelict". Now? Pffft, forget it!



Can't wait to see how this aftermarket kit comes out. Nice Job!


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## gojira61 (May 21, 2008)

Paulbo said:


> Decals are in the works along with an etch set to make lighting much easier. I'm sure that Randy will have a lighting set that will work perfectly with this kit so it would be similar to working with the Flying Sub etch/decal/lighting set.


*SWEEEEEET!* :woohoo:

Love the Flying Sub set (now if I can find time to *USE* it)


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## Gemini1999 (Sep 25, 2008)

This is really great - we're getting a look at an accessory kit for a model that is months away from being released. I know where part of my end of year bonus will be going....

I love the level of detail in all the drawings. I can't wait to see what the finished product looks like!

Bryan


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## teslabe (Oct 20, 2007)

Gemini1999 said:


> This is really great - we're getting a look at an accessory kit for a model that is months away from being released. I know where part of my end of year bonus will be going....
> 
> I love the level of detail in all the drawings. I can't wait to see what the finished product looks like!
> 
> Bryan


You can always count on Paul to be lightyears ahead of the game and with Ron being a part of it, it will just be sick......:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: Can't wait for what he does next.


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

John P said:


> Those wedges look like shadowplay to me. Why would they only be on one quadrant of the core? They can easily be explained as shadows from the fins caused by a light from below/behind.


I don't know John, but it was a stupid idea to post my question in this thread. Sorry.


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## HabuHunter32 (Aug 22, 2009)

Ya know untill Ron posted that comparison of the 2 types of gear I did not think that there was much of a difference! I do not as a matter of course add that much aftermarket stuff to my builds. I am mostly an out of the box kind of guy but I think in this case I may have to get the "hero" gear set for my Jupiter 2. Exelent!:thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

The challenge is to make Ron's "Hero Gear" Work. I can't wait. Nice photo of that Jupiter 2 too......I think thats the one I removed the stage hand from...:wave:


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## Ron Gross (Jan 2, 2009)

Y3a said:


> The challenge is to make Ron's "Hero Gear" Work. I can't wait. Nice photo of that Jupiter 2 too......I think thats the one I removed the stage hand from...:wave:


Y3a,
As a matter of fact, Paul and I discussed the fact that some may tackle this possibility, and I mentioned you specifically because of your many interesting and informative posts on this subject. I think that the basic elements in our product do exist for adaptation into working gear for those who so choose. The actual mechanism, however, may have to be a little different than the original.

As such, I also think there's a possibility that it could be done without gutting the entire interior. It would mean opening up the floor behind the bulkhead walls in a significant manner to accommodate the legs and whatever mechanism is deemed necessary. However, the tightness of the perimeter that defines the upper deck on this model makes this a real possibility. Although working gear is not necessarily my thing, I will be very interested to see what you come up with.


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## jeffking45 (Aug 31, 2008)

Great! job Ron/Paul, this add on accurate landing gear will take an already excellent version of the famed intergalactic vehicle to the level of 100%.


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## jeffking45 (Aug 31, 2008)

Hey! guys can i get you all to do the lower deck ?


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## bert model maker (Feb 19, 2002)

Ron, Thank you for bringing us the HERO kanding gear ! YOUR landing gear will now make the correct profile for a great model ! I am thankful for a new, bigger Jupiter 2 but i was going to be forced to have it built gear up, so it would look correct. Now, with all of your dedication to the jupiter 2 that I highly respect, I will have a legs down Jupiter 2 that will be 100% acurate, Ron, I consider you to be the ultimate authority on the Jupiter 2 and without YOUR input & hard work on the Jupiter 2 model project, the model would have NEVER been possible in my opinion.THANK YOU RON, !!!THANK YOU PAUL !!!!
Bert


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## Mark Dorais (May 25, 2006)

THANK GOODNESS for this upcoming accurate set of gear for our wonderful Jupiter 2.... Now the model will have have the full integrity, in appearance, to the 4 foot filming miniature ......the look we all loved on the small screen.... Ron THANKS for sharing your glorious talents with us!


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## woof359 (Apr 27, 2003)

:thumbsup:


bert model maker said:


> Ron, Thank you for bringing us the HERO kanding gear ! YOUR landing gear will now make the correct profile for a great model ! I am thankful for a new, bigger Jupiter 2 but i was going to be forced to have it built gear up, so it would look correct. Now, with all of your dedication to the jupiter 2 that I highly respect, I will have a legs down Jupiter 2 that will be 100% acurate, Ron, I consider you to be the ultimate authority on the Jupiter 2 and without YOUR input & hard work on the Jupiter 2 model project, the model would have NEVER been possible in my opinion.THANK YOU RON, !!!THANK YOU PAUL !!!!
> 
> SAME HERE, while i look forward to the kit like a kid waiting for Christmas, I was gonna do legs up mainly becuase the legs were a big turn off, Ron and Paul have come thru to make this kit 100%
> 
> ...


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## m jamieson (Dec 18, 2008)

Sounds like you turned a lot of guys on with your legs Ron and Paul!... those sexy, strong, Jupiter 2 legs! .. now to make some 1/35th scale stockings and garter belt to slip over them! LOL


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

I won't be using the interior on the working gear model, so I have as much space as I'll need.

I'm still thinking of a jack shaft system to pull wires to lower the legs and lift & slide the doors.


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## Ron Gross (Jan 2, 2009)

Y3a said:


> I won't be using the interior on the working gear model, so I have as much space as I'll need.
> 
> I'm still thinking of a jack shaft system to pull wires to lower the legs and lift & slide the doors.


Considering what you intend to do, I think you're right about that decision. However, I'm visualizing that a few may want to construct some sort of manual retraction system, similar to the old Lunar Models add-on gear, or the Trendmasters J2 "toy." For those people, I still think it might be possible to work something out with the interior intact, as long as they are willing to perform the fairly drastic modifications required to the floor area behind the bulkhead walls. But then that's the beauty of this model. You can do pretty much whatever you want with it. Paul and I simply made another level of choices a little bit easier.


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## Ron Gross (Jan 2, 2009)

bert model maker said:


> Ron, Thank you for bringing us the HERO kanding gear ! YOUR landing gear will now make the correct profile for a great model ! I am thankful for a new, bigger Jupiter 2 but i was going to be forced to have it built gear up, so it would look correct. Now, with all of your dedication to the jupiter 2 that I highly respect, I will have a legs down Jupiter 2 that will be 100% acurate, Ron, I consider you to be the ultimate authority on the Jupiter 2 and without YOUR input & hard work on the Jupiter 2 model project, the model would have NEVER been possible in my opinion.THANK YOU RON, !!!THANK YOU PAUL !!!!
> Bert


Wow, Bert, I'm not sure quite what to say, how to respond, or even if I should. I may refer back to this again sometime, because there have been quite a few players in the area of the J2 over the years who deserve their own special attention, not to mention everyone involved with this new model kit. However, for now, allow me to express my sincere thanks for your very kind sentiments. Yes, it's true that I've been pounding the table on the subject of the J2 on the internet alone for more than a decade, trying very hard to answer all e-mails along the way. A response like this from someone like you makes me think it has all been worth it.
Ron G.


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## gimijimi (Jun 23, 2008)

*Thanks for Listening.*

I have also been one of those "vocal sticklers" for the hero J2 landing gear, so this is really good news. Please put me down for two sets.

How much more would it cost to either go straight to working gear, or providing flush (raised gear) inserts?

Thank you Ron and Paul.


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

I wanted to say here, that I found out what the story is. It took some serious sharpening of the video, but I discovered that the wedges are, indeed, a mirage. When the spinning light is in a wedged frame, the wedge disappears, so the wedges _are_ due to the set lighting.  



toyroy said:


> Ron,
> I've been working with this shot recently. It appears there are some wedge-shaped projections between the bottom of the fins and the lower surface of the core, to the left of the near gear leg. They're in all the frames of the shot. They don't seem to be due to a lighting anomaly. Can you tell us anything about them?
> 
> [IMG-LEFT]http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/attachment.php?attachmentid=91262&d=1253829432[/IMG-LEFT]


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## Paulbo (Sep 16, 2004)

gimijimi said:


> I have also been one of those "vocal sticklers" for the hero J2 landing gear, so this is really good news. Please put me down for two sets.
> 
> How much more would it cost to either go straight to working gear, or providing flush (raised gear) inserts?
> 
> Thank you Ron and Paul.


You're quite welcome, GimiJimi!

Ron and I have discussed developing a working version of the gear, but in the end decided that we would just be doing the static version.

I hadn't checked on the doors, but just checked the kit and with the lip provided it would be far simpler (and less expensive!) to cut some thin sheet plastic to fit rather than purchase pre-cut pieces. To make the curvature correct for the hull, the pieces would need to be cast rather than cut, and that would mean making them fairly thick to provide good molding.

P.S. Your gear looks great!


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## Paulbo (Sep 16, 2004)

jeffking45 said:


> Great! job Ron/Paul, this add on accurate landing gear will take an already excellent version of the famed intergalactic vehicle to the level of 100%.


Thanks! Yes, this kit is a fantastic replica of the ship. I opened the box a few weeks back and just said "wow"! I'm going to be sad to send it on its way come Monday.

We're going for as near 100% accuracy for the hero miniature version of the gear as is possible, though on the other tentacle, the gear that comes with kit is pretty much dead-on accurate to the full-sized set piece.

Between the two, people have options for building whichever version of the ship they'd like.


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

I have an idea on how to do the gear for this model....IF.... you want to do the "Hero" version cockpit, possibly the 6 spinning lights in the core and the "V" spinner in the bubble looking like the real thing. The reason you have to do the box stuck to the viewport interior is for the other stuff. 

I have been thinking about how to stop the attachment block and not have to have some convoluted wiring and relays. A jack shaft is a threaded shaft with a block with attachment points on a side or two and a threaded hole through it that matches the thread of the shaft. all you need to do is set up "Stops" for the end points of the block. the torque is immense so be careful! I just figured a way to run the jackshaft without this wiring by allowing the motor to have a rubber tire on the output, and put another rubber tire on one end of the shaft. the slipping will do the same thing as turning off as far as stopping the blocks travel back n forth on the shaft. 

I will use one set of wires to the footpad doors and another to the gear legs. The delay required between pulling the footpad doors open and dropping the gear legs is done by adding weak springs into the wires. 

the footpad doors start right away by pulling the door up out of the pocket and sliding it out of the way. the spring needs to be stronger than the one used for the legs themselves. It is attached between two points on the wire. The door is pulled back to it's stop point on a rail and the wire continues to be pulled by the jack shaft while the spring (kind of like a small screen door return spring) is stretched. the spring was strong enough to pull the footpad doors open, and pull harder than the return spring on the door.

The leg drops after the doors have opened, using the same type of spring arrangement, but with a really wimpy spring. it just has to stretch while the door opens, and then the spring can be at its end where the wire has been let out to the point that it now pulls the gear down. The wire would attach to a control arm like the Hero used that can be fabricated from block plastic with a threaded tip to attach the wire and make fine adjustments.


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## gimijimi (Jun 23, 2008)

Paulbo said:


> You're quite welcome, GimiJimi!
> 
> 
> P.S. Your gear looks great!


Thanks, but actually its not my gear.

I believe this a picture of the final mock-up, pre-fabrication, pre-metal, version used by Custom Replicas for their 18-inch hero Jupiter 2; or the ICONS version. Custom Replicas purchased ICONS' Jupiter 2 when ICONS went away, so its the same model, essentially. Both were based on the filming hero version used in filming of the "Derelict" episode.

I just wanted to be able to offer a picture of working landing gear to plead my case for the same for the Moebius Jupiter 2.

My thanks to the both of you for the hero landing gear add-on.


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

Y3a,
How do you activate your gear?


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## Dar (Apr 20, 2007)

Cant wait for these new gear Ron and Paul. Great job.:thumbsup: Thanks for the time, effort and speed in which you guys put this together.:thumbsup:


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## Paulbo (Sep 16, 2004)

Dar said:


> ...and speed in which you guys put this together...


:freak: I've got to say that developing this *really small* accessory set gives me a whole new appreciation for what Frank, Dave, and Gary have gone through to give us the Jupiter 2 (and all their other great kits). Ron and I went back and forth for ages before I ever even got the test shot in my hands to make sure it was right, then went back and changed tons and tons. I know that Moebius goes through that level of work on the rest of the ship (the detail is AWESOME) and their commitment just boggles my mind!


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## nicksdad (Sep 8, 2009)

So will this be cast in resin or injection molded styrene?


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## Paulbo (Sep 16, 2004)

nicksdad said:


> So will this be cast in resin or injection molded styrene?


There will be cast metal and laser cut plastic pieces.


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

I will control the motor from the support wires. For that model I can get by with single thin steel wire (K&S) to support the model and provide power. no batteries needed, you can run it off about 4 volts from a radioshak power block. I plan to make both a "Lydecker" style rig in the spring to do some video fer fun. If I get anything of interest I'll post it. I also plan to use a 12 foot 2x2 for the control boom when I wanna do the other stuff. To make it stronger, you cut it down the center and epoxy it back together. I'll use a base of 4x4's and a mounting point about 6 feet up so the wires and boom can be out of the frame. A 5 gallon paint bucket filled with bricks, about 3-5 feet in back of the pivot should work as a counterbalance. The powerblock can be taped to the boom along with the wiring and switches. 

The boom would be suitable for the lift off from Henry's Launch tower...

The Lydecker rig will be fun to use to have the jupiter 2 lift off from a pile of dirt and such and retract the gear and hover about 2 feet off the ground and float forward while gaining speed and altitude. I can attach the ends of the rig to trees in my next door neighbors! the winch can be controlled by a model railroad transformer with momentum to both smoothly move the rig and set the specific speeds needed. I think I'll film it at night so I can really control the light! (Thanks to the inspiration from O. Winston Link.)


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## Ron Gross (Jan 2, 2009)

This all sounds very interesting. Looking forward to many photos, and maybe even YouTube videos?


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

I coudn't get you to ADD SOME PARTS into your photo etch for the control arms at the top end of the leg could I????


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## Ron Gross (Jan 2, 2009)

Y3a,
Paul has control of those decisions, but I suspect there will be a cost concern involved. The situation is pretty tight as it is in terms of price point.


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## Fernando Mureb (Nov 12, 2006)

bert model maker said:


> Ron, Thank you for bringing us the HERO kanding gear ! YOUR landing gear will now make the correct profile for a great model ! I am thankful for a new, bigger Jupiter 2 but i was going to be forced to have it built gear up, so it would look correct. Now, with all of your dedication to the jupiter 2 that I highly respect, I will have a legs down Jupiter 2 that will be 100% acurate, Ron, I consider you to be the ultimate authority on the Jupiter 2 and without YOUR input & hard work on the Jupiter 2 model project, the model would have NEVER been possible in my opinion.THANK YOU RON, !!!THANK YOU PAUL !!!!
> Bert





Mark Dorais said:


> THANK GOODNESS for this upcoming accurate set of gear for our wonderful Jupiter 2.... Now the model will have have the full integrity, in appearance, to the 4 foot filming miniature ......the look we all loved on the small screen.... Ron THANKS for sharing your glorious talents with us!


I couldn't express myself better.
Thanks Ron and Paul.


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

I may make a balsa shape that will fit into the back end of the leg and stick out about 2 inches, then I'll make a mold and produce the finals in Alumilite.

I will try to keep the leg components intact so the original designs structural integrity will remain intact. 
If I make a part that slips into the back end and also slips over the back of the top step and is snug against the sides I can maintain the squareness and provide a sturdier spot for a brass tube as pivot bearing. 

This kind of arrangement suggests stronger mount points for the rod going through the back of the leg. 
I'll buff and graphite mine before installation. 

An "A" frame will also be required for the hydraulic rams shaft to rotate from. 
I will most likely use thin Model Airplane style plywood for the backing for the gear wells. 

"IF" Moebius provided removable footpad doors the rest will be a piece of cake. If not............ I dunno. I need to see it. 

The gear well frames inside make a good mounting point for the rotation stuff. 
I use a small model railroad motor and NWSL after market Steam Engine gearox. Usually 36 to 1 ratio. The plastic gear axle hole should be 1/8 inch in diameter for easy part locating. 

You can add in 2 RC Car ball bearings on either end too. I did that on the Lunar Models mechanics.






Use a small bit of rubber tubing to connect the motor shaft to the gearbox. 

The "V in the bubble is just a circle of polished metal bent into a "V shape as seen from the side, and attached t the top of the 1/8" brass tube. 
You can solder it to a 'Wheel Collar' so it can be removed. 

The fusion core can be 6 bright white LED's mounted on a thin plastic circle with the thin batteries powering them on the other side. 
you can even mount the switch on the battery side for easier access and control. 
It can also have it's own wheel collar in the exact center that allows it to be removed from the rotating shaft. 

The "V" is lit by 6 bright white LED's pointed up at the bottom of the "V". 

They are mounted on the top side of a frosted plastic circle that also illuminates the back side of the cockpit scrim for that characteristic sillouette look to the crew. 

The Tossing and pitching clip of the Jupiter 2 from Lost in Space Forever gives you a glimpse of the close spacing of the lights looking into the bubble. 

The Model RR motor ang gearbox are not under any resistance so they will last 20-50 years. How long would an LED version hold up?


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## Fernando Mureb (Nov 12, 2006)

My God!!
Every time a see posts like that, I feel like the smallest worm of the plastic modeling world.
Fantastic!!
Thanks for sharing Y3a.


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

Thank you very much for the complement, and I hope you can improve on my crude stuff done in haste when I had a day or so.

I have NO LIFE so doing this sort of thing has become my life lately. The stuff you're looking at was done when I was starting my computer maintenance business and had more free time than I needed. Lucky my parents are here to help. 

This solution to the landing gear and spinner stuff was mostly a product of my environment. I live outside DC near Leesburg VA. I work IN DC. The commute is over an hour both ways and I have lots of time to work out this stuff. Its more legal than using a BAZOOKA on the idiot drivers. I figured out a flying sub drop mech for the BIG Moebius Seaview, and a suspension for the Chariot the same way. 

The model railroad takes up even more time. 

BTW - My Lunar Models two foot J2 is waiting for me to add the support stuff inside so I can use it to 'perform' all its tricks. It has working gear and footpad doors, and the lights n stuff really spins, not just a chaser. It looks like the Derelict version. The support will let me pick it up and move it by wires like the original Hero.

I have a 4 foot hull from the 'restored' Azarian Hero. The hull looks 3rd year, as the lower hull is 'fatter somehow. I have only built the jackshaft mechanics and bought the NWSL gear boxes for mine. I have drawn out the fusion core fins, and footpads, and "A" frame inside for the "Hydraulic" rams. I don't know if I'll ever get to 'fly' that 4 foot model though.


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## Ron Gross (Jan 2, 2009)

I thought I should take a minute to extend a special note of thanks to Frank for his support of the Hero J2 Landing Gear Project. He was respectful of my opinion for the viability of and the need for this product from the start, and was prepared to help me see it through by any means necessary. We are very lucky to have a man at the helm of Moebius who displays such a level of interest in support product offerings.
Ron G.


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## m jamieson (Dec 18, 2008)

Ron Gross said:


> I thought I should take a minute to extend a special note of thanks to Frank for his support of the Hero J2 Landing Gear Project. He was respectful of my opinion for the viability of and the need for this product from the start, and was prepared to help me see it through by any means necessary. We are very lucky to have a man at the helm of Moebius who displays such a level of interest in support product offerings.
> Ron G.


Amen to that!!


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

ABSOLUTELY!!! These gentlemen have had a hideous task of grinding through all the various and contradictory Jupiter 2 information and offered us a kit of our favorite spaceship from our childhood. For many of us this was the first and most wanted kit of the 1960's. Even more than a 2 foot B9, or The Saturn 5. They have answered the dreams of our kid-dom. Thank you guys VERY VERY MUCH!!! 

I personally have been waiting since I saw the Derelict when is aired for the first time. The realness of the ship and the cool sound effects and the famous actors and powerful music made LIS special at the beginning. It was space drama and adventure. I always see the Hero as the anchor in reality, as it didn't change much on the outside compared to the inside. 

The Moebius Jupiter 2 looks even more spectacular than the Seaview - and I would never have thought that possible. The exterior looks spot on to my 4 foot hull. The interior looks perfect. the fusion core looks perfect. I can't wait to build these kits. YES! I said kit'S. I 'need' three of them. One as fusion core and bubble working, and interior, one as Hero, as landed, one a working 18" jupiter 2 hero with Scrim cockpit, spinning mechanical stuff and the working gear, all suspended from wires that supply the power.


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## woof359 (Apr 27, 2003)

in flight vertion kit with included doors is what Im looking forward to, A+ addition to the kit IMHO, I figure hanging from the cieling it wont need an interior so Scrim well work fine. fusion and spining bubble reflector with hopfuly a remote on/off switch like my 2 footer.


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## Paulbo (Sep 16, 2004)

Ron Gross said:


> I thought I should take a minute to extend a special note of thanks to Frank for his support of the Hero J2 Landing Gear Project. He was respectful of my opinion for the viability of and the need for this product from the start, and was prepared to help me see it through by any means necessary. We are very lucky to have a man at the helm of Moebius who displays such a level of interest in support product offerings.
> Ron G.


Hear Hear. Frank has been extremely helpful and encouraging.


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## GEH737 (Aug 9, 1999)

My sincere thanks to all for helping this project come to reality...

The hard part will be trying to decide whether to start immediately after the Mailman drops off the package of two from CultTVman, or... wait for all the aftermarket stuff that's sure to arrive. I love the look of these legs - and will certainly order them 

George


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## Paulbo (Sep 16, 2004)

*Prototype Photos & Packaging Artwork*



GEH737 said:


> My sincere thanks to all for helping this project come to reality...
> 
> The hard part will be trying to decide whether to start immediately after the Mailman drops off the package of two from CultTVman, or... wait for all the aftermarket stuff that's sure to arrive. I love the look of these legs - and will certainly order them
> 
> George


All of ParaGrafix's aftermarket items* will be available the day the model ships from Steve, so you can start right away!

*In addition to these landing gears, I'll be doing (of course) a full set of photoetch for all the control consoles. These will be similar in use to the ones currently available for the big Flying Sub and will include decals to make painting a breeze and they'll make lighting a heck of a lot easier.


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## Paulbo (Sep 16, 2004)

I've just finished assembling the prototype of the foot pad and vertical "rod" portion of the landing gear. 

An unfortunate series of file format incompatibilies has delayed the laser-cut "ladder" portion of the gear. We were finally able to work out the difficulties this morning and I should have the prototype in my hands on Wednesday.

  

In the middle shot with the ship's hull, the model is actually being held up by the gear. (Of course it's only the lower part of the hull, and the half of the hull is resting on a tape measure, but I still think it's pretty neat that it's doing what it's designed to do even without the rest of the gear.)

Finally, here is the current draft of the packaging artwork. There may be some layout changes before the gear hits the shelf, but it will just be based on a possible change of box size. Ron's painting is just so cool!


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## Dave P (Jan 5, 2005)

You know, Paul, I WAS going to build this fairly straight out of the box (other than lighting). But now, sheeesh! I have no choice. Between the gear and the etch parts, thanks for making things a hell of a lot more complicated!

And I mean that!


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## bert model maker (Feb 19, 2002)

woof359 said:


> in flight vertion kit with included doors is what Im looking forward to, A+ addition to the kit IMHO, I figure hanging from the cieling it wont need an interior so Scrim well work fine. fusion and spining bubble reflector with hopfuly a remote on/off switch like my 2 footer.


Woof, tell me about your remote control switch, what did you use & how did you hook it up ?


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## rondenning (Jul 29, 2008)

gimijimi said:


> I have also been one of those "vocal sticklers" for the hero J2 landing gear, so this is really good news. Please put me down for two sets.
> 
> How much more would it cost to either go straight to working gear, or providing flush (raised gear) inserts?
> 
> ...


This is actually the Landing Gear from the SciFi Metropolis 24" Jupiter 2.
They should be ready to ship more of these kits soon, they just released the 4th 1/6 scale figure in the LIS line, Dr. Maureen Robinson(looks exactly like June Lockhart). The 1/6 scale Space Pod should be out any time, and the 1/6 scale Chariot goes into production end of 1stQ 2010.
:devil:Ron:devil:


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## bert model maker (Feb 19, 2002)

There have been NO updates to their site. No telling when if ever they will start selling products again.


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## mrdean (Aug 11, 1998)

http://www.robotfactory.net/Jupiter2kit.html

Try here.

Mark Dean


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## Paulbo (Sep 16, 2004)

Unfortunately I won't have the complete prototype photos to post today - the local laser cutter popped the lexan sheet into his machine, turned it on and phhttt. His laser's not compatible with lexan and it gummed up the lenses and mirrors. Luckily no harm to his machine.

There's another shop a bit further away that's checking on the artwork right now and I should know more tomorrow.


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## bert model maker (Feb 19, 2002)

mrdean said:


> http://www.robotfactory.net/Jupiter2kit.html
> 
> Try here.
> 
> Mark Dean


Thats the old jupiter 2 that has been discontinued according to charles at SFM & Robot factory. He emailed me and said that they no longer make THAT jupiter 2 and have retooled it & it will be made out of resin instead of the ABS plastic. I tried to order one last year & they said NO, not available any longer. They have yet to update that information on their site.


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## Antimatter (Feb 16, 2008)

bert model maker said:


> Thats the old jupiter 2 that has been discontinued according to charles at SFM & Robot factory. He emailed me and said that they no longer make THAT jupiter 2 and have retooled it & it will be made out of resin instead of the ABS plastic. I tried to order one last year & they said NO, not available any longer. They have yet to update that information on their site.


Why does this not surprise me?


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## bert model maker (Feb 19, 2002)

They have great products, but making them available to customers who want to buy them is another story.


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## Gemini1999 (Sep 25, 2008)

bert model maker said:


> They have great products, but making them available to customers who want to buy them is another story.


That's very true - the images they had on the original site of the 1/6 scale Space Pod were just amazing. I thought that if the finished product as good as the photos, I'd line up for that one. Sadly, it's been a few years since I first saw the photos and the new site has an update saying that their Space Pod will be available in the 4th quarter of 2009 is promising. I'll reserve my joy for the time when it's actually released.

I do have a couple of the 1/6 scale figures that were released - I was looking forward to more coming out, but that's been very slow in coming.

Oh well....a subject best left to another thread and another time. Let's get back to talking about the landing gear!

Bryan


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## woof359 (Apr 27, 2003)

what ever happened to all the molds Icons and Classic reborn had, they must be some where.


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## Ron Gross (Jan 2, 2009)

I agree that we should return this conversation to the subject of the hero miniature landing gear. However, allow me to tie up the conversation involving Sci-Fi Met with a few relevant thoughts.

Norman has had a few unfortunate issues, he is a friend of mine, and I wish him the best. But if there are people who liked his J2 offering, or perhaps have seen his patterns for intended future offerings, remember that the design he is using was derived from my original plans - the ones I used to construct my own prototype. Fast forward to the present and recall that the hull contour revealed by these plans turned out to be a virtual dead ringer for Gary's recent CAD results derived from a physical scan of a hero miniature copy.

Soooo, since the Sci-Fi Met J2 was designed to essentially emulate the hero miniature, it occurs to me that anyone who really likes the physical appearance of this model could achieve virtually the same result by combining the Moebius J2 with the Paragrafix hero miniature landing gear. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the logic seems to follow...


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## woof359 (Apr 27, 2003)

Paulbo said:


> Unfortunately I won't have the complete prototype photos to post today - the local laser cutter popped the lexan sheet into his machine, turned it on and phhttt. His laser's not compatible with lexan and it gummed up the lenses and mirrors. Luckily no harm to his machine.
> 
> There's another shop a bit further away that's checking on the artwork right now and I should know more tomorrow.


just a question, well your gear/ leg combination have a aticulated swivle joint where the pole ataches to the leg ?


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## Paulbo (Sep 16, 2004)

Hello Woof,

No, the joint will not be articulated. If one is desired, though, it would be a very easy matter to file off the outsides of the joint and fabricate two small plastic pieces to replace what's lost and put in a hinge pin.


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

A "U" shaped wire going through the brass tubes and glued to the bottom the stoop might do the same thing if you plan to articulate your laigz.


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## woof359 (Apr 27, 2003)

Paulbo said:


> Hello Woof,
> 
> No, the joint will not be articulated. If one is desired, though, it would be a very easy matter to file off the outsides of the joint and fabricate two small plastic pieces to replace what's lost and put in a hinge pin.


either way it well be fine, just wondering, looking forward to them.


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## Antimatter (Feb 16, 2008)

woof359 said:


> what ever happened to all the molds Icons and Classic reborn had, they must be some where.


BWAHAHAHAHAHHA!!!!!!! Now *that's *funny!


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

Back on subject........

OK, so any thoughts from the experts on how they want to do their gear? THAT IS...IF you plan on making it working gear. 

With suspension wires involved in the illusion what can THEY be used for??

Internal or external motors and such for gear?

I just thought it deserved a BUMP!


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## Gemini1999 (Sep 25, 2008)

I confess that I like the idea of articulated landing gear, but not to the extent of using wires, pulleys, or motors to make it happen. I like some of the articulated versions that have been cobbled together, or were commercially available at one point.

I think that the stumbling block for me is with the space available in the upcoming Moebius J2 kit with the upper deck part of it in place makes the decision for me. I'd rather not sacrifice the attention to detail that was given to the interior just to have a functional set of landing gear.

I think that if I were to build a J2 model with some sort of functional landing gear, I'd sacrifice my PL J2 kit to do it. I'd build the model more in keeping with the 4 foot SFX model, but I'd forego the idea of using wires, motors, etc. I'm fairly good at building models, but not to that level of complexity. If I did build a J2 model with articulated landing gear, it would be manually operated, not remotely or powered.

I'd love to see what everyone else comes up with though - I'll just live vicariously!

Bryan


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## Paulbo (Sep 16, 2004)

Gemini1999 said:


> I'd rather not sacrifice the attention to detail that was given to the interior just to have a functional set of landing gear.


I agree wholeheartedly, Brian. The interior's a super piece of work.

On the other tentacle, building 2 versions (1 static with kit interior, 1 articulated with the hero miniature's back-drop interior) would be the ultimate way to go ... assuming one has room to display both.


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

I never saw a full saucer with gear AND interior. What model are you doing?


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

As far as I'm concerned, the challenge to a full interior with working gear is how to accomodate the struts. The gear legs, as seen from the exterior, do fit under the deck- although the hero's large cranks simply won't.

I've seen plans showing the struts folding up into the gear wells. The thing is, the struts don't move like that on screen. One way to get the proper motion is to pass the strut through a fixed point- unfortunately, that point is within the area of the flight deck. One strut is pretty easily hidden, as it is next to an airlock wall. Another is between the third and fourth freezing tubes, and the last is between the elevator and the freezing tubes.


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## Dave Metzner (Jan 1, 1970)

IF one is building a SCALE MODEL of a supposedly "real" Jupiter 2 This comes right back to my point regarding operating landing legs. 
The landing gear as depicted by the "hero" model is not practical..IE it does not fit into any description of a "real" Jupiter 2 that has even one level - the main flight deck - much less the vehicle with three levels!
In order for the landing gear to work in a PROTOTYPICAL manner as it would on a "real" Jupiter2 IT HAS TO FOLD UP TO FIT IN THE LANDING GEAR WELLS!
SO it has to have struts that fold AND probably compress as they slide from the deployed location to a stowed location within the confines of the landing gear well. just like landing gear on REAL airplanes 
Making the landing legs fit into the space of the Landing leg wells is not impossible - there's enough spalce within the wells for the legs and struts but it's not a simple - "one hinge at the top of the leg and let the strut stick up wherever" deal.
PROTOTYPICAL working landing legs would require at least 4 hinges 
#1 at the top of the leg,
#2 bottom of the leg 
#3 the strut on top of the landing leg foot 
#4 at the top of the strut. 
There would be a sliding anchor with hinge #4 built into it in the ceiling of the gear well for the top of the strut and the strut itself would probably need to be able to compress.... 
This should work in a reasonably prototypical manner - the problem is making it sufficiently robust to support the weight of the finished model!
If you are only interested in duplicating the shooting miniature without the interior then Y3a's scheme works fine.. otherwise things get a bit more complicated when you try to fold the landing legs and stow them in the landing gear wells...

Dave


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## Fernando Mureb (Nov 12, 2006)

Nothing like the good and old common sense.


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## Ron Gross (Jan 2, 2009)

Dave's assessment about the viability of working landing gear in post #80 is well thought out and expressed, and very much on the mark. As I discussed in a prior post on one of the earlier threads, I did a study of the theoretical retraction of hero gear at the point when I first drew up the plans for what is now the Paragrafix J2 HLG product. I am reposting it here.

As you can see, there is simply not enough room within the well to accommodate all the necessary working parts. I even modified the end of the assembly to create the best fit possible, while still honoring the actual pivot point as defined by surviving hero gear reference material. The logical conclusion, therefore, was to stop at a design that would preserve the "look" of the hero gear at full extension, so that those who prefer the full proportional integrity of the J2 hero miniature would have this option available.

As I have also suggested before, however, I believe that because of the tightness of the diameter that defines the interior on this model, there might still exist a possibility to open up the floor area behind the bulkhead walls to create the necessary working space. This is one of those situations where you are probably going to have to get the model in your hands so that any such possibility can be thoroughly visualized and evaluated. It is not necessarily for me, but I respect those who might want to give it a try, keeping in mind that structural support may still be an issue.

But regardless of what someone may come up with, I can pretty safely guarantee that the mechanism will be quite different than its original hero J2 counterpart, assuming that the full interior is retained. I suspect that anyone who succeeds will be dealing with a manual retraction option rather than a motorized one. But then you never know, I've seen some pretty remarkable things on this board from this fine group of artisans.

Ron G.


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

we Jupiter 2 fanatics know the gear dilemma and the size/scale issues involving 'the Jupiter 2'. BUT.... we know that it was an illusion from the folks at 20th Century Fox. We know their was a ful size, straight sided hull with gear but no interior. We know there was a set where both levels were seen, including the upper level with hull exterior and interior, but no gear. We also know there was a 4 foot model with gear and no interior other than a backdrop scrim and some figures. Another 4 foot model dropped the pod. A smaller model without gear, or interior was used for the long distance shots. Nowhere was there a Jupiter 2 with interior AND working gear. 

The Moebius J2 can be used to make ANY of those SPFX models or sets - other than the lower level of the J2. We that want working gear an do without the set interoir, and get by with the Scrim and a few figures. 

Me, personally, I want a model of the HERO with working gear. I personally don't think to much of the straight sided hulls, and not a fan of the set or interiors. For me, the HERO is what I want.


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## Ron Gross (Jan 2, 2009)

Well, that's what's so cool about the fact that there were so many incarnations of the J2. It may have been frustrating when we were kids, but now it provides a myriad of options for building the model. In my eyes, your preference is as valid and respected as anyone else's. And the fact that you want working gear adds a whole new dimension to your thinking and ultimate goal.

From my point of view, I guess I satisfied my need for the "total" hero look a long time ago with my scratch build. Now that we are going to have something of this large size, I view it as an opportunity to do something fairly sophisticated with interior detail. However, I still prefer that the exterior be proportionally faithful to the hero in all respects, which is what the Paragrafix HLG product is all about.


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

Here's the way the struts actually move:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/vfq8pq

This is made to be stepped through framewise, using a video editor. 

And here's an illustration of the way I spoke of before, to achieve this motion:



This is the way it's done on the hero. The challenge is to come up with a way to achieve the same strut motion, with little or no incursion on, or visible distraction on, the flight deck.


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## Antimatter (Feb 16, 2008)

Dave Metzner said:


> IF one is building a SCALE MODEL of a supposedly "real" Jupiter 2 This comes right back to my point regarding operating landing legs.
> The landing gear as depicted by the "hero" model is not practical..IE it does not fit into any description of a "real" Jupiter 2 that has even one level - the main flight deck - much less the vehicle with three levels!
> In order for the landing gear to work in a PROTOTYPICAL manner as it would on a "real" Jupiter2 IT HAS TO FOLD UP TO FIT IN THE LANDING GEAR WELLS!
> SO it has to have struts that fold AND probably compress as they slide from the deployed location to a stowed location within the confines of the landing gear well. just like landing gear on REAL airplanes
> ...


Gee Dave, do you think people may figure out a solution to this monumental problem or is it the end of all that we know?


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## Ron Gross (Jan 2, 2009)

toyroy said:


> Here's the way the struts actually move:
> 
> http://www.sendspace.com/file/vfq8pq
> 
> ...


Yes, I've seen this before, which is why I suggested that anyone who succeeds with working gear will not be able to exactly duplicate the original mechanism. If exact duplication of motion is what you're after, then I would agree with Y3a that his solution is the best.

However, I'm willing to bet that there will be someone who is willing to sacrifice the exact strut motion in favor of something that otherwise still works. It was with this thought in mind that I pointed out the extra space available due to the smallish diameter of the interior on this model. If such a trade-off in acceptable in someone's mind, I think there is a possibility that it could be done.


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## JeffG (May 10, 2004)

You guys are gonna hurt yourselves trying to make logic of an Irwin Allen vehicle! Remember, this is the same show that had Jimmy Hapgood flying around the galaxy in a ship no bigger than a portajohn! Anyway, rock on. This could make for some interesting modeling!


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## woof359 (Apr 27, 2003)

I guess you could put a shaft threw the leg where it pivots and a motor off to the side but even if the teliscoping pole collapses inside itself .....unless its inside a upper deck wall theres no room for it.


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

Keep in mind that the "Real Jupiter 2's" landing gear strut/hydraulic ram would collapse toward the footpad because the ram is at the lower part of the leg, not the hull. 

I decided to keep a parts list going when I cobble the mechanics n stuff together for that working gear for those who wanna give it a go as well. I think the NEXT BEST system would be as a full 'string puppet' with 3 wires supporting the hull and 3 for the legs and ONE for the footpad doors. 

Building one in space would be fun too. no gear but interior, and Astrogator either in bubble or downand Robinsons in the freezy-tubes or gathered around Don, sitting in 1st original slide out chair on rails and door to chair storage area on main control console. Maybe a robot in the background just about to hit the inertial navigation controls.
Fusion core can run all the time and you just have to solve the spinning "V" in the bubble look, OR a single slow blinking bulb in there. 

For the "make it look like a real Jupiter 2" crowd, how many plan to weather your model? What material is the hull made from? I think it was Unobtanium alloy myself. Will you do scruff from more than a few ugly crash landings? Rain and weather? The 'thrusters' may need to be drilled out and some sort of residue around the nozzles could be fun too. How about the impact damage from the meteor swarm? I counted over 25 hits, so a few bigger chunks might have left scars. I think the Jupiter 2's hull was cast as a single part, and machined to spec. The main window, doors and hatches and fusion core hole were cast in as well. I think the material is about 2 inches thick most all over, with some areas getting up to 10 inches thick. I think they built the fusion core and dropped the hull over it and it was attached before they brought on the reactor through the chariot entrance. The bulkheads and decks were installed while the wiring was being done and finally the last parts and components were added. the reactor was brought online and was always "on". The onboard systems would be calibrated and the ship packed for the trip. I think the Jupiter series saucers were put on the launch towers for calibration to hurry the process along. Because the Jupiter 2's had such hot-shot high tech navigation stuff they would blast off, get into space and dial up the location, and the on-board computers would set up the flight and go. The location could also be pre-set, but the Jupiters would dynamically set up flight plan based on the exact place and vector for the starting point. If the occupants were all in freezy tubes the engines would go into max power and go almost the speed of light. If they were still milling about on the Jupiter and not in the tubes teh engines would only go 90 percent. This was a safety precaution because the gravity waves produced by the fusion core at full power could cause brain damage. This explains Dr. Smiths slide from nasty villain to sissy coward. Anyway, enough of my ravings. This thread might get interesting by this weekend!


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## Fernando Mureb (Nov 12, 2006)

Would I have note 0,0001 pound of irony in the post above or what?


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

Ron Gross said:


> ...I'm willing to bet that there will be someone who is willing to sacrifice the exact strut motion in favor of something that otherwise still works...


You can also make the gear _much_ easier by sacrificing the pad doors altogether, and just fixing the pads to the legs so they fit the hull underside. And if you care that little about the actual gear motion, you might as well just glue the struts in the landed position, and let them retract and deploy that way. Isn't that how the Trendmasters toy works?


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## Ron Gross (Jan 2, 2009)

There have been several solutions already that involve making the footpads fit directly into the hull, most notably Lunar Models. The problem with this approach is that the pads become quite a bit larger, and are no longer proportionally faithful to the original hero gear. Since that is precisely my goal, this is not a trade-off that I would personally accept. It all depends on one's established priorities.


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

Using Strucural Shapes in Metal (A K&S Metals line of tubes rods and shapes in brass) you can make a scale version of the mechanics the Hero used for the footpad doors. Careful care in making the scale parts is the key. I will attempt it on my working gear Jupiter 2.


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## Jim C (May 3, 2006)

Mark, 
You Tha Man!!!!! A lot of Day Dreaming went into that RANT, I love it. I'm a What If This Could Be Real Ship Plan Myself. Still working out some Ideas in my head about the gear functon. I love the Hero J2, and will give the exterior that look, but I'm still looking to make one with a real live upper deck. So the "Gear" will have to function. I've been starring at my landing gear at work every time I do a walk around, making mental notes of the whole process. I've come up with a couple of ideas that might work out for all. I'm trying out some 3d drawings to see if my ideas will work.

jim


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## Jim C (May 3, 2006)

By the way, Is there any real reason why the gear are not on centerline? meaning: why is the rear gear not on center and the 120 degree rotation on cent around the bottom?

Jim


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## Antimatter (Feb 16, 2008)

My solution is not using the interior parts except the seats, control panel along with the background as in "The Derelict". Simple enough.


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## Chuck Eds (Jul 20, 2009)

Jim C said:


> By the way, Is there any real reason why the gear are not on centerline? meaning: why is the rear gear not on center and the 120 degree rotation on cent around the bottom?
> 
> Jim


Jim,

Have you ever seen the blueprints for the full size mockup? It was built in six sections of 60 degrees each, where as the interior sets were designed around eight sections of 45 degrees each. Maybe that's why??

Chuck

btw- I posted a video on the sci fi models/ JII thread yesterday, check it out guys!


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

The legs were offset for the visual impact. No other reason, since the gear didn't interfere with anything on the real sets.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Y3a said:


> The legs were offset for the visual impact. No other reason, since the gear didn't interfere with anything on the real sets.


I thought the gear were lined up so that the one leg would line up with the main hatch.


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

Y3a said:


> ...I think the NEXT BEST system would be as a full 'string puppet' with 3 wires supporting the hull and 3 for the legs and ONE for the footpad doors...


Using three support wires, couldn't one rotate to operate the gear?


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

Naaa. 3 wires support the saucer like the Hero was supported. 3 other wires could raise and lower the gear, and ONE wire could slide all 3 footpad doors aside.


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

Y3a said:


> The legs were offset for the visual impact. No other reason, since the gear didn't interfere with anything on the real sets.


One of my favorite things about the Landing Gear- it makes them look more like a functional piece of equipment built to an implied engineering configuration inside the hull...

.


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## Paulbo (Sep 16, 2004)

Gary implied a neat sliding mechanism for the top of the arm portion. The motion wouldn't replicate the hero miniature's, but it's a possibility for trying to fit in moving gear without removing the kit's interior.


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

Well, in my daydreaming of the jupiter 2 I did think that the landing gear retraction didn't have to invade into the main deck. I figgered that the ram retracted into the cylinder so thats about 6 feet of the strut that is telescoped into the cylinder as the gear retracts. Once the strut got as far into the cylinder as it was supposed to, the top of the strut and the 'attach point' would move on a threaded rod to complete the retraction. 

Yeah, i got a lot of "C" grades (grades 4-6)cause I daydreamed about the Jupiter 2 etc but now with more than......Holy S!!!!!!! Forty plus years of thinking about the Jupiter 2. in grade school while Lost in Space and Star Trek were originally on, I cobbled together several cardboard jupiter 2 models in class while I was 'listening' to the teacher. I also did an XB-70, and numerous Super Cars from those pink erasers and some staples. Yeah, there were several Sci-Fi nuts building craft in secret in their desks while 'paying attention to the teacher' LOL!!! The fun was how fast I could replace a model taken by the teacher.


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## Jim C (May 3, 2006)

LOL !!!!!!
I'm right there with ya!!!


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

Erasers, rubberbands and some bent staples made a lot of great robots when I was young and bored in class...

.


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

On my 20 year old 24" (http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=252892), the top of the landing gear wells is also the floor of the control room, which sits well below the edge of the rim of the saucer. On the Moebius kit there will be lots more room to work in. Obviously there was no place for landing gear to protrude into or behind the control room. So I soldered together some brass tubing. Two parallel tubes run the length of the top of each landing gear well. A small H shaped piece of soldered tubing bridges the parallel tubes and slides along their length. Across the middle of the H is a short length of tubing that is free to rotate. Soldered onto that piece is the landing strut. 
The H slides forward along the parallel tubes, the strut rotates out and down. 
It's all manually operated, of course. 
The foot covers press in and are pushed out of the way or pulled back into place. I left small tabs inside the foot covers for finger grabs. 
The brass struts alone easily support the 10 lb weight of the model.
The goofy looking tubes standing up in the wells are to keep the landing gear from retracting too far. So many better ways I could have done that. And if you're modeling the hero, the landing gears edges sit proud of the hull anyway so that won't be an issue. 
The strut is also two sliding tubes, one fitted into the other and spring loaded to compress upon landing, something that I guess I couldn't resist but upon looking at it is totally needless.
The rest is all 040 styrene. The brass struts support the entire weight of the model, with the landing gear merely keeping the struts in place.


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

Excellent work!!!


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## Antimatter (Feb 16, 2008)

So it slides on tracks to retract with the floor in place? Hey Dave, you taking notes?


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## Fernando Mureb (Nov 12, 2006)

Antimatter said:


> So it slides on tracks to retract with the floor in place? Hey Dave, you taking notes?


Yeah! Pictures and drawings, please. Just for curiosity.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Great solution, Starseeker!!!

INSPIRATIONAL, SIR! :thumbsup:


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

I took some angular measurements off the Ghost Planet landing shot frames. They are of the right side strut and leg back. Granted, the view not quite side-on, so lines aren't exactly true length, but it's not a bad approximation.

There are 108 frames between the start of the left gear leg's motion(the right is slightly delayed,) and the end(full deployment- NOT touchdown.) The first frame I was able to get any strut measurement from was 39, and the angle between the strut and leg back was 28.5 degrees. At frame 49, it was up to 33.5 degrees; at frame 58, 36 degrees- which is the same as at frame 108(the end.)

Anyway, it looks like you can get a reasonable approximation of the strut motion by fixing it to the gear leg.


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

Good thing we aren't hard core....


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## BigGuido (May 7, 2008)

Ron,
I was inspired by your Hero gear project and decided to see if I could design a practiacal version that could be Extended and retracted by twisting the fusion core emitter. I have a question concerning the amount of space that exists between the top of the gear bay and the bottom of the upper deck. If my scaling is correct on the attached image, my guess is that there isn't any. If that is the case, I will need to rethink where I will put the actuation arms. Let me know what you think.
Thanks,
Guido










BTW, I'm the guy who sent you this J2 image about 11 or so years ago.


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## Ron Gross (Jan 2, 2009)

BigGuido said:


> Ron,
> I was inspired by your Hero gear project and decided to see if I could design a practiacal version that could be Extended and retracted by twisting the fusion core emitter. I have a question concerning the amount of space that exists between the top of the gear bay and the bottom of the upper deck. If my scaling is correct on the attached image, my guess is that there isn't any. If that is the case, I will need to rethink where I will put the actuation arms. Let me know what you think.
> Thanks,
> Guido
> ...


Rich,
I'm afraid you're right about the space limitation of the gear wells. See my post #82 earlier in this thread.

Now, I'm really going to freak you out. I'm someone who tends to archive a lot, so I looked up that image in my collection and noted the date. That also gave me the date of that original e-mail you sent me all those years ago, since I would have saved it from your attachment. The fact that I have always used Mozilla e-mail clients over the years (beginning with Netscape) means that even the oldest e-mail is still compatible with modern derivatives. So I looked for it, and sure enough, there it was, dated 3-16-99, at 7:18PM. Why don't you PM me with your current e-mail so I can forward it to you. Should be good for a laugh after all these years.

But there was nothing funny about what you said at the time, how much you appreciated the PL J2, etc. I have hundreds of messages like that archived, and I still appreciate every one of them.

BTW, that illustration is great.
Ron G.


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## Jim C (May 3, 2006)

Anybody,
I need an acurate edge of the hull. I've been experimenting with a 3d program and need an edge on drawing of the j2, Moebius if possible. I'm trying to make a couple of looks that might help some of us get a handle on what we accually can do or think we can do with a visual of the model. Where is the floor going to be, ie. on center of ream or lower. I've got a lot of drawings from you guys from this thread but need to have one I can use that is the most correct. any help will get the ball rolling.

jim


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

OK, It may take until this evening, but I have a closeup of the edge (I assume you mean the edge where the upper and lower hulls meet) I made for documenting the 4 footer shape, and position of the doors etc.


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## Jim C (May 3, 2006)

Y3a said:


> OK, It may take until this evening, but I have a closeup of the edge (I assume you mean the edge where the upper and lower hulls meet) I made for documenting the 4 footer shape, and position of the doors etc.


Thanks

jim


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

Jim C said:


> I need an acurate edge of the hull...


Jim, I know you've already been directed to the Moebius drawing, but here's a processed frame from _The Ghost Planet_. It's 390/536. I chose it by eye, as I don't have sophisticated graphics software.



It's edge-on at the upper/lower hull seam.


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)




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## Jim C (May 3, 2006)

toyroy said:


> Jim, I know you've already been directed to the Moebius drawing, but here's a processed frame from _The Ghost Planet_. It's 390/536. I chose it by eye, as I don't have sophisticated graphics software.
> 
> 
> 
> It's edge-on at the upper/lower hull seam.


Thanks Toyroy


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## Jim C (May 3, 2006)

Y3a said:


>


Got it Y3a and thanks as well.

jim


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

If it isn't good enough, I can give it another try this weekend. Work sucks right now so it'll be during the weekend.


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## Jim C (May 3, 2006)

Y3a said:


> If it isn't good enough, I can give it another try this weekend. Work sucks right now so it'll be during the weekend.


It works just fine, thanks

Jim


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## Paulbo (Sep 16, 2004)

*Prototype Photos*

I finally got the prototype lasercut pieces Thursday evening and did a quick assembly before finishing packing for Chiller. Because of the time crunch, I didn't take photos until I had some down-time in my hotel room Saturday ... then, of course, my room didn't have net access (or rather, I wasn't going to overpay for what most hotels include with the main charge).

  

The clear Lexan pieces were simply glued together with Ambroid liquid cement. This welded the pieces perfectly (and according to the specs for another identical product, the joint is super-strong).

The vertical arm and foot pad are one of my extra grown parts - the polished unit went off to have multiple resin copies made for further prototypes and also to be used as masters for a multi-cavity metal casting mold.

Tom Parker (Cult of Personality - Bwain No More on the boards) was kind enough to display the piece on his table this weekend. I was very pleased by its reception.


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## bert model maker (Feb 19, 2002)

Beautiful, Those look outstanding !


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## Captain Han Solo (Apr 5, 2002)

Paulbo said:


> I finally got the prototype lasercut pieces Thursday evening and did a quick assembly before finishing packing for Chiller. Because of the time crunch, I didn't take photos until I had some down-time in my hotel room Saturday ... then, of course, my room didn't have net access (or rather, I wasn't going to overpay for what most hotels include with the main charge).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

Having seen it myself up close, I can tell you it looks awesome!


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## fastlap (Nov 11, 2007)

*I'm wrong!*

I thought the gear included in the kit looked good when viewed at IHobby. But, looking at these...."Simply Outstanding!!!" Like I said before, I will be adding the Hero Gear to my build for sure!


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## Paulbo (Sep 16, 2004)

Thank you Bert, Mark, & Fastlap! It was great to finally meet you this weekend, Mark.

The photos don't do justice to the landing pad - the material's translucent enough that it doesn't create proper shadows to show the ribs. The resin copies should be miles ahead in terms of "visibility".


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## Ron Gross (Jan 2, 2009)

I, too am blown away by the impeccable translation of my original drawings into what these photos proudly display. It is everything I hoped for, and more. FYI: depending on how well this product is received in terms of actual sales, Paul and I have discussed teaming up for more goodies in the future. Before anyone asks, there is nothing we can share at this time. Let's just say there are some interesting possibilities...
Ron G.


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## Captain Han Solo (Apr 5, 2002)

Ron Gross said:


> I, too am blown away by the impeccable translation of my original drawings into what these photos proudly display. It is everything I hoped for, and more. FYI: depending on how well this product is received in terms of actual sales, Paul and I have discussed teaming up for more goodies in the future. Before anyone asks, there is nothing we can share at this time. Let's just say there are some interesting possibilities...
> Ron G.


 
Ron, Paul is indeed an expert craftsman!

With both of you guys working on stuff,I can't even imagine the goodies you come up with(I can Imagine,but it sounded better saying it the other way..LOL)!


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## HabuHunter32 (Aug 22, 2009)

Will this be available at the same time as the J-2? I cant wait for this set, it looks dead on to the hero gear. :thumbsup:I hope I can build my J2 sooner rather than later! The future looks bright indeed!


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## Paulbo (Sep 16, 2004)

Yes, Habu, the gear will be available when the kit ships next month. (Barring unforeseen production problems, of course.)


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## Hunch (Apr 6, 2003)

December is shaping up to be a great month! Outstanding work on the landing gear (saw it at chiller) and I cant wait to get this stuff!


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## fastlap (Nov 11, 2007)

*??*

Don't know if these questions have been asked, but is kit going to be available directly through you, or from distributors? Also, where is the line if we need to pre-order?


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## GEH737 (Aug 9, 1999)

I so want these... 

Hitch


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## HabuHunter32 (Aug 22, 2009)

Paulbo said:


> Yes, Habu, the gear will be available when the kit ships next month. (Barring unforeseen production problems, of course.)


Thank you sir! Woohoo!!!!


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## phantom11 (Jul 12, 2007)

Can't wait to get a set of these!!! Thanks you guys, for crafting an impeccable addition to a much anticipated kit!


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## Paulbo (Sep 16, 2004)

fastlap said:


> Don't know if these questions have been asked, but is kit going to be available directly through you, or from distributors? Also, where is the line if we need to pre-order?


Sorry for the delay in answering this, but we're still working out costing, package assembly, and other items that directly relate to this. I will be opening the site for pre-orders as soon as we have final pricing (including postage requirements).

This will all be announced here first.

HITCH: No wonder I was a little confused over the weekend - I usually think of aliases (GEH737) and didn't make the connection.


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## Ron Gross (Jan 2, 2009)

A few days ago, I received a sample of the Hero Landing Gear in the mail from Paul. Even though I know what they should look like (because I drew the original plans?!), I have to say that I was literally blown away with the accuracy and overall level of detail. The footpad in particular is outstanding, as it has been modestly revised from my initial drawing after additional scrutiny from both Paul and myself.

Hmmm... Makes me wonder what the PL J2 would have looked like a decade ago if that company had been only half as thorough...
Ron G.


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## Kit (Jul 9, 2009)

Ron Gross said:


> A few days ago, I received a sample of the Hero Landing Gear in the mail from Paul. Even though I know what they should look like (because I drew the original plans?!), I have to say that I was literally blown away with the accuracy and overall level of detail. The footpad in particular is outstanding, as it has been modestly revised from my initial drawing after additional scrutiny from both Paul and myself.
> 
> Hmmm... Makes me wonder what the PL J2 would have looked like a decade ago if that company had been only half as thorough...
> Ron G.


Makes me wonder what criticisms of this one will be floating around in ten years, or ten days. You can bet there will be some doozies.


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## Dave Metzner (Jan 1, 1970)

Oh I'm sure there will be plenty of criticism. After all there are already people out there second guessing the design of the kit and it's not in stores yet!

I'm the guy who was running the show for the company that was only "half as thorough" a few years ago (thanks Ron!)...
Now I've been involved in getting this one produced... I'm sure it will have it's critics.

I haven't been involved in a kit project yet where there wasn't someone who could find fault with it.

Dave


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## Ron Gross (Jan 2, 2009)

Dave Metzner said:


> Oh I'm sure there will be plenty of criticism. After all there are already people out there second guessing the design of the kit and it's not in stores yet!
> 
> I'm the guy who was running the show for the company that was only "half as thorough" a few years ago (thanks Ron!)...
> Now I've been involved in getting this one produced... I'm sure it will have it's critics.
> ...


Hey Dave,
Don't take it so personally. You said yourself on another thread that the PL kit was very different in that it had to hit a certain target price point to insure success for a very young company. This necessitated certain compromises in tooling, etc, and I'm sure that everyone here is well aware of that. As a matter of fact, I went out of my way to make sure that people were aware a decade ago, as this was the very basis for the series of "construction tips" that I wrote for Cult. Basically, I wanted to head off any undue criticism, and have a little fun while doing so. But I don't see a problem with looking back, now more than a decade later, and being a little more critical in a light sort of way.

Another point, not commonly known, is that there was an intermediate prototyping company involved with the PL kit (Rehkemper ID?), which introduced its own set of variables into the equation.


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## Paulbo (Sep 16, 2004)

fastlap said:


> Don't know if these questions have been asked, but is kit going to be available directly through you, or from distributors? Also, where is the line if we need to pre-order?


I am happy to (finally!) announce that the Landing Gear pre-order page has been uploaded: you can find it here! With the other announcements I'm making today, I've been up to my eyeballs (LINK) so I haven't been able to finish my assembled prototype parts with the kit. I hope to finally be able to get to that tomorrow.

The final price is $79.95. A bit higher than Ron and I would like, but the costs are higher than we anticipated.*

No money is sent in with these pre-orders - this is just to get your name and email address so I can send you a PayPal invoice when the set arrives here from the various places manufacturing the parts for us.

The gear should also be available from "all the usual suspects".

* The funny thing is, it's not the metal parts that are expensive - it's the laser-cut Lexan! Acrylic, which can be cut anywhere, jumps in price ten-fold when going to the 1/32" thickness needed for this item. On the flip-side, Lexan can only be cut by a limited number of converters (out-gassing or some such).


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## bert model maker (Feb 19, 2002)

Yes thank you, I also want to say a special thank you to you RON for all of the research and work YOU have done on behalf of the Jupiter 2 as a modeling subject for so many years. Your expertise & knowledge of the Jupiter 2 has contributed GREATLY to making the Jupiter 2 become a model of CORRECT dimensions ! I appreciate ALL you have done.
Bert


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## Ductapeforever (Mar 6, 2008)

Yes Ron, Mega Dittos from the Peanut Gallery!


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## Mark Dorais (May 25, 2006)

bert model maker said:


> Yes thank you, I also want to say a special thank you to you RON for all of the research and work YOU have done on behalf of the Jupiter 2 as a modeling subject for so many years. Your expertise & knowledge of the Jupiter 2 has contributed GREATLY to making the Jupiter 2 become a model of CORRECT dimensions ! I appreciate ALL you have done.
> Bert


Couldn't have been said better. I whole heartedly agree....... Thanks again Ron for your tremendous contributions which will FINALLY bring about a model with fidelity and accuracy ........ a Jupiter 2 model of our dreams .


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## Ron Gross (Jan 2, 2009)

Thanks, guys. But the fact is that I served basically as an adviser this time around. Gary's hard work and impeccable CAD skills were necessary for this model to have delivered the level of detail that it so proudly displays.
Ron G.


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## Paulbo (Sep 16, 2004)

I've finally dragged myself away from the design bench and assembled three sets (well, two additional set) of the landing leg prototypes. Being clear, the "ladder portion" doesn't photograph that well so I'll be painting these up tomorrow and re-photograph this.

Just as a quick preview, though: 


A couple of quick things to note: 

The gear are just held in place with a little "blue tack" right now so they don't shift around. Also, I've designed the gear so that the ladder portion fits up snuggly against the bottom of the access hatch - this gives a solid location for gluing and gives a positive locking location.

Though the metal parts will be far more sturdy, the resin "armature" parts are holding up the kit quite nicely. 

Finally, Ron and I realized that since the gear armature is all brass (3 cast brass pieces and some rod), they will conduct electricity quite nicely and some enterprising builders might like to use two of the legs to supply power to their kits. EDIT - actually, if you use a common ground through one landing leg you could use the two other landing legs to provide power to two different circuits.


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## teslabe (Oct 20, 2007)

Paulbo said:


> I've finally dragged myself away from the design bench and assembled three sets (well, two additional set) of the landing leg prototypes. Being clear, the "ladder portion" doesn't photograph that well so I'll be painting these up tomorrow and re-photograph this.
> 
> Just as a quick preview, though:
> 
> ...


That's a great idea.....:thumbsup: I did something like that for my PL J2 and had a base with hidden contacts which only lined up one way so you couldn't get the polarity wrong.....:drunk:
It recharged the battery that ran the electronics, this let the ship be picked up and still run..... If you look close you can see the copper pads.


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## Paulbo (Sep 16, 2004)

I had hoped to get the landing gear out a week earlier than I'd originally anticipated, but there was a delay with some of the parts. Next week is still looking good, though. 

Cheers, Paul


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## Paulbo (Sep 16, 2004)

The landing gear has ... landed!

I received the cast brass parts last night and packaged everything up this morning. The first orders have gone out, and everyone on the preorder list has been contacted.

The brass parts are simply beautifully cast. Ernie Gee did a great job.

I'll have photos of everything tomorrow.


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## Paulbo (Sep 16, 2004)

Things have finally slowed down a bit and I was able to sit down and hit the prototype gear with a coat of primer and take a quick shot of it installed.



The gear is now shipping, complete with the brass armature pieces. G-Factor Models did an absolutely fabulous job casting them.



You can see more photos here: http://www.paragrafix.biz/product_detail.asp?MainCat=blank&SubCat=blank&PPartNum=PGX120


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## total victory (Jan 5, 2010)

hey everyone,im also new here and have really enjoyed seeing the j-2 models that have been built, some great work! im offshore right now and have the new j-2 waiting on me at home so i hadnt got to see it yet, im 50 so yes ive too waited a long time for something like this to come out, this is truely something special,been a while since ive done any serious model building,can anyone suggest a decient air brush kit to purchase? thank you all,,,chris


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## Paulbo (Sep 16, 2004)

Welcome TV. I know this is a huge thread to sort through, but check out: http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=260480


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## Paulbo (Sep 16, 2004)

OK, I guess people liked the photos I just posted ... In the last 2-1/2 hours Ron and I sold out the remaining 20% of our stock. (Don't worry - pre-orders have been sequestered away.)

Being as this was going to be so expensive (both to purchase and produce) we were very conservative in ordering our first run, but we expected to have the run take about a month to sell, rather than less than a week.

We have more on order, but it will be a couple of weeks before all the components are in.


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## Nektu (Aug 15, 2001)

Hey...
Got my set today... just great! Quick question, what primers are safe for the lexan parts? There's one mentioned in the instructs, but I've never heard of it before.

thanks,
KK


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## Paulbo (Sep 16, 2004)

I'm glad you like the gear, Nektu!

A hobby shop that deals with R/C cars will have the right primers for you - the bodies of R/C cars are generally made of Lexan (aka polycarbonate).


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## Nektu (Aug 15, 2001)

Got it... 
are they compatible with most paints after you primer? I am sort of stuck in my ways with the paint I use!

Best,
Ken


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

The Brass parts work well with floquils or any primer. I'm really glad the parts are in brass. I work on Brass HO scale Steam engines and have lots of teeny nuts bolts and washers to make everything pivot and not swivel on the gear.


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## Paulbo (Sep 16, 2004)

Ken,

You _should_ be all set after you've got the primer on, though you'll want to make sure you don't run into the acrylic on enamel (or is it enamel on acrylic?) situation. Check with the paint and/or primer manufacturer to make doubly sure.

Cheers,
Paul


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## GEH737 (Aug 9, 1999)

It's a beautiful set - mine showed up yesterday!

What do you recommend to get rid of the attachment points on the brass (haven't ever done that) - I'm thinking Dremmel and a cutting wheel. 

George


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

Be careful and don't hand hold the footpad while cutting because brass heats up quickly and you'll be burned before you realize it.


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## Paulbo (Sep 16, 2004)

Hi George,

Yes, a cutting wheel on a Dremel will work well, and then hand file to finish off.

A jeweler's saw is a good choice as well and gives a bit more control than the Dremel.

One nice advantage of the brass (and, of course, Ernie's awsome casting ability) over white metal is that these pieces don't need any real cleanup or polishing other than removing the pour spouts.


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## GEH737 (Aug 9, 1999)

Thanks for the tips guys. Did Ernie G cast these? They really are very nicely done 

George


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## Paulbo (Sep 16, 2004)

Nada.

Yes, Ernie Gee cast the metal parts, and I agree that they're quite well done.


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## liskorea317 (Mar 27, 2009)

Paulbo said:


> Ken,
> 
> You _should_ be all set after you've got the primer on, though you'll want to make sure you don't run into the acrylic on enamel (or is it enamel on acrylic?) situation. Check with the paint and/or primer manufacturer to make doubly sure.
> 
> ...


I have a dumb question-I received my set today and all is well. I love the very clean casting! I've never worked with lexan before. Never even heard of it until these landing gear were for sale. The pictures I've seen of the prototype all show clear parts, but my kit has printing on everything. Is that something I have to peel off like you do with plexiglass?


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## Paulbo (Sep 16, 2004)

Hi LiS,

Not a dumb question at all. Yes, the gear is covered by a protective film, just like plexiglass.

I'm guessing you're playing with the parts and haven't read the instructions yet - As do we all!

The instructions for assembling the ladder section state "remove the protective film before assembling the ladder portion of the gear".


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## liskorea317 (Mar 27, 2009)

Paulbo said:


> Hi LiS,
> 
> Not a dumb question at all. Yes, the gear is covered by a protective film, just like plexiglass.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I knew I'd missed something!
Thanks for clearing that up!


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## Paulbo (Sep 16, 2004)

Not to worry - when I picked up the raw Lexan at the plastic supply house I was surprised at all the printing. When I've designed large industrial parts (storm shutters for homes) the film has been totally clear.


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## liskorea317 (Mar 27, 2009)

*Advice Needed on Lexan & Ambroid Pro Weld*



Paulbo said:


> Not to worry - when I picked up the raw Lexan at the plastic supply house I was surprised at all the printing. When I've designed large industrial parts (storm shutters for homes) the film has been totally clear.


Any tips on cementing these parts together? I have Ambroid Pro Weld, but have never used it before. (Wow those fumes are something else!) Luckily I have a large window next to the table. How do you define "sparingly"? Should I use a toothpick on the parts to apply it? I attempted to attach a step to the side rail but the solvent didn't hold. I didn't use very much at all. I did wash the parts. The steps seem to have a bit of wiggle room in the slots in the side rail.
I'm thinking of using small plastic c clamps to hold the parts together then apply the pro weld.

Any tips you guys may have please send them along!
Thanks!


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## Paulbo (Sep 16, 2004)

Sure thing LIS.

First, some preliminary setup ...

I don't like the brushes that come in bottles of liquid glue - they're generally big and floppy making for messy application. I have a couple of cheap brushes that I keep handy to apply the solvent. 

Also, for larger areas I use the syringe applicators (I forget the trade name - but they're basically fat medical needles, some with teflon inserts). These can take some practice to keep from dripping too much, but well worth it.

For the gear itself ...

I've done my assemblies all by hand, just holding the parts - no clamps or anything necessary as the solvent dries pretty quickly. 

General assembly: attach one sidewall (5) to the backing plate (14), then add the steps, then the other sidewall, and finally the edge strips* (13).

For the smaller areas to be glued (putting treads into the stairs) I put the piece in place, then use the brush to liberally put solvent into the gap. I reapply several times while making sure not to put so much in that it drips.

The larger areas (ie. sidewalls to backing plate) are a bit more involved. Although for most plastics you can just hold the pieces together, put a drop of solvent at the seam and let capilary action move enough adhesive to do the trick, I've found that with Lexan I get best results if I "butter" one of edges with solvent to soften the plastic (several swipes with a wet brush), then place the pieces together, add several drops of solvent along the seam and press together.

I hope this helps,
Paul

* For some reason the edge strips tend to not stay straight due to the laser cutting process. To make life easier, you might want to replace them with 0.03x0.06 inch (or 0.03x0.08 inch) styrene strip.


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## liskorea317 (Mar 27, 2009)

Paulbo said:


> Sure thing LIS.
> 
> First, some preliminary setup ...
> 
> ...


Thanks so much Paul! That all makes sense! I wasn't using anywhere near enough solvent for a proper bond!
I appreciate the quick reply!


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## fire91bird (Feb 3, 2008)

Your building tips are great, Paul. Could you elaborate on the primer you used? Specific brand would be great. I've not worked with Lexan and I can't seem to find a primer in the R/C paint lines. Appreciate any advice.


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## Paulbo (Sep 16, 2004)

Firebird - Parma Faskolor paints are made for Lexan, and I've heard (but can't confirm) that Krylon Fusion plastic primer works well.

Also, Dupli-Color's Adhesion Promoter works on Lexan.

Cheers,
Paul


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## fire91bird (Feb 3, 2008)

Thanks Paul, that helps. I didn't see a primer in the Faskolor line, that's what was confusing me. My plan is to use the same silver paint on the gear that I use on the hull, so I'll probably try the Fusion primer, then. Thanks! On second thought, the Adhesion Promoter might be the better choice. Guess that's what scrap is for!


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

I have a 4 foot Jupiter 2 hull and I had verified to my satisfaction that the Moebius J2 was spot on. UNTIL, I looked at the model while thinking about the practicality of the gear under the sliding hatch. I noticed the forward side of the gear was aligned closely to the rear edge if the hatch. My 4 footer is in my sitting room(just sitting on some styrofoam blocks) and it was rotated so that I could see the hatch and gear. The leg on the hero is actually mostly under the hatch. Do I really care? Nope. Other than the 50 or so of us who have copies of the 4 foot hull, Who'd know? Well......I guess YOU KNOW NOW TOO!


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

Y3a said:


> ...I noticed (on the Moebius model) the forward side of the gear was aligned closely to the rear edge (of the sliding hatch)...The leg on the hero is actually mostly under the hatch...


You mean, like this, on the mock-up?:


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## Gary K (Aug 26, 2002)

Y3a said:


> I have a 4 foot Jupiter 2 hull and I had verified to my satisfaction that the Moebius J2 was spot on. UNTIL, I looked at the model while thinking about the practicality of the gear under the sliding hatch. I noticed the forward side of the gear was aligned closely to the rear edge if the hatch. My 4 footer is in my sitting room(just sitting on some styrofoam blocks) and it was rotated so that I could see the hatch and gear. The leg on the hero is actually mostly under the hatch.


Two points:

1. The Moebius model was not intended to be an exact copy of every idiosyncrasy of the 4 ft hero model. If it were, I'd have eliminated the recessed airlock door and made the landing gear (esp. the rear leg) asymmetrical, to match the hero's. Actually, on studio plans of the full-size mock-up, the forward side of the gear IS aligned closely to the rear edge if the hatch.

2. The outer airlock door of the Moebius kit had to be located where it is, since it has to align with the ship's interior - which the door on the 4-footer did not.

Gary


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

Gary K said:


> Two points:
> 
> 1. The Moebius model was not intended to be an exact copy of every idiosyncrasy of the 4 ft hero model. If it were, I'd have eliminated the recessed airlock door and made the landing gear (esp. the rear leg) asymmetrical, to match the hero's. Actually, on studio plans of the full-size mock-up, the forward side of the gear IS aligned closely to the rear edge if the hatch.
> 
> ...


You could have quoted my entire statement. You left out :

"Do I really care? Nope. Other than the 50 or so of us who have copies of the 4 foot hull, Who'd know? Well......I guess YOU KNOW NOW TOO!"

it was merely for info. If you had made the hull an exact copy it wouldn't be symetrical, it would have had a crooked main viewport, and roundish edge. Your version is far better than the artists could do in plaster of Paris and fiberglass. The gear was to be based on the full size mock-up and that is where the gear is.


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## thebloop (Nov 3, 2004)

About alignment from the opposite side, the upper hull, the large hatch/port hole in the top back: 

I'm opening up all of those ports. Being that my model will be sealed, I intended to show its interior with every possible glass view even if it wasn't shown as such in the series. In shining a flashlight right through the plastic cutout of the largest upper hull back port, it does not align with the elevator shaft by depth (center to back); the sides are OK. I don't know the true hatch placements of this ship. Regardless of 4-footers or blueprints, it would've made sense that a similar size diameter port match in parallel the elevator shaft. At least, I think so. Perhaps an access to the outer top. Just needed to be forward toward the center about 3/4". With putty, it still can be done. I'll probably cut it out where I believe it should be. If it doesn't look right, I can always seal it back up. 

This is a case where someone _does_ care and symmetry counts . It's still a great model. Faults will be found, but most probably originated from the start in 1965.


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

You're going waaaaaay past the level of thought put into matching the Hero hull details to the set. 

The upper hatches all worked, and the positions suggest they put those access holes there to get to the insides.

QUESTION FOR ANYBODY WHO KNOWS :

When did they cut the top off the Hero for access??????


Anyway, trying to reconcile the Hero to the set is FUTILE!!! Just enjoy the model which is superb. I have actually incurred the wrath of my model railroad associates(Since Model RR is my most fluent hobby, followed by Scifi) to work on the Jupiter 2 projectS and leaving the model RR stuff for later - because the interior is SO GOOD that I HAVE to do them to a very high level. The GEAR and the associated mechanics is almost secondary. With simple, subtle lighting and careful painting, it may be possible to fool you into thinking you ARE looking at the set, and not a plastic model.


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## Gary K (Aug 26, 2002)

thebloop said:


> About alignment from the opposite side, the upper hull, the large hatch/port hole in the top back:
> .
> .
> .
> This is a case where someone _does_ care and symmetry counts . It's still a great model. Faults will be found, but most probably originated from the start in 1965.


Y3a: okay - now I get what you were saying. I'm just trying to explain why the Moebius model was designed the way it was.

About the upper hatch: As originally envisioned, a 45-inch diameter blister, filled with interstellar navigation equipment, was located below the hatch & above the elevator shaft. In operation, the cover of the external hatch would slide open, and the blister would rise upward, through the opening. The elevator platform would raise crew members into the blister, where they could take manual navigation readings. In early episodes, the base of the blister, plus some of the navigation equipment, is visible through the opening in the flight deck’s ceiling, but it was all removed sometime afterward. 

On studio plans, the hatch is positioned 10-degrees from the rear of the ship, and the elevator on the Moebius kit is less than 1-degree off from that. Not too bad a match. One of problems associated with marrying the studio set with an exterior based on the hero model was the fact that I couldn’t place the external hatch directly over the elevator, since the elevator would be too far inboard. As a nod to the studio model, I moved the hatch on the Moebius kit outboard to match studio plans and the hero model.

On the hero model, both the nav hatch and the rear landing leg were rotated from their intended locations, and I can only assume this had something to do with the internal workings of the model. I'm writing a massive article on designing the kit, and Part 1 will be published in April. More on that later....

Gary


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

No prollum Gary. BTW Do you know when they cut the top off the hero? I'm assuming after LIS was over and maybe for City Beneath the Sea.


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## thebloop (Nov 3, 2004)

Gary, you done a very fine job. Really. A lot of times I don't like writing posts here because I wouldn't want anybody to get the wrong idea of any nit-picking. Not saying this because anybody hinted anything wrong. It's a discussion thread and we're just talking, here. Whew! I feel better that I got that out! I love this model in every way; I want you to know that.


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## Gary K (Aug 26, 2002)

Y3a said:


> No prollum Gary. BTW Do you know when they cut the top off the hero? I'm assuming after LIS was over and maybe for City Beneath the Sea.


I have no idea. It's also possible that when the model was built they anticipated the possibility that the complex internal mechanisms might someday need major adjustment/repairs, so they made the roof removable, then puttied over the seam & screw holes. After all, the upper & lower halves of the 36" Flying Sub model with claws & wheels were screwed together. Oh, for a time machine....

Gary


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

Y3a said:


> ...Do you know when they cut the top off the hero? I'm assuming after LIS was over and maybe for City Beneath the Sea.





Gary K said:


> I have no idea. It's also possible that when the model was built they anticipated the possibility that the complex internal mechanisms might someday need major adjustment/repairs, so they made the roof removable...


Of course, I don't know. But trying to access the internals through the viewport, core and landing gear openings, and the three upper hatches seems too ship-in-a-bottle-like. I gotta figure anyone smart enough to rig that landing gear must've been smart enough to leave plenty of access.


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

Newest Drawing of the landing gear mechanics I plan to use on the Moebius kit, with aftermarket gear. This system, with some parts modification would work with the Kit provided gear. I mislabeled the directions in the overall saucer drawing at the top as it refers to the jackshaft direction.



Use this with: 


and this:


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## Paulbo (Sep 16, 2004)

Very cool, Mark!

I misunderstood how you were working the jackshaft - I like this system, though the way I misunderstood it you'd have twice the mechanical advantage. (Not that I think you need the extra.)

I'm looking forward to seeing the construction work.


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