# Auto World - Tjet chassis question



## Boosted-Z71 (Nov 26, 2007)

Hey guys just wandered if anyone has any tips for the brush springs for the AW-Tjet type chassis, I bought 10, and were using them as a "fray" type build cars, (Starter cars) (only with way less restrictive rules) my real problem is the brush springs, several of the cars the springs are way off of being correctly adjusted from the factory, and they seem to loose tension and sometimes adjustment after running them a bit. Any one have any ideas? 

I have done many Aurora chassis as well as some tempering on the copper to stiffen them, but these AW chassis are beginning to be a pain.

Boosted


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## SuperFist (Aug 7, 2005)

Contact Bob Beers and have him send you some Aurora T-Jet chassis for $15 ea.
He has some nice ones. [email protected]

__________________


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## smalltime (Jun 3, 2006)

Boosted-Z71 said:


> Hey guys just wandered if anyone has any tips for the brush springs for the AW-Tjet type chassis, I bought 10, and were using them as a "fray" type build cars, (Starter cars) (only with way less restrictive rules) my real problem is the brush springs, several of the cars the springs are way off of being correctly adjusted from the factory, and they seem to loose tension and sometimes adjustment after running them a bit. Any one have any ideas?
> 
> I have done many Aurora chassis as well as some tempering on the copper to stiffen them, but these AW chassis are beginning to be a pain.
> 
> Boosted


First things first.

Unless you removed the brush springs from the chassis, you did not harden them. I suspect you only managed to soften them a little. To heat treat copper, you must heat it to over 700 degrees and keep it there for a long time. You chassis would be, of course, melted away.

As far as the AW chassis go,try carefully reconfiguring them and installing some Wizzard brushes. The stock AW brushes are ok, but they are very tall. The Wizzard brushes will set better and not bend the springs.

Hope this helps


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## Boosted-Z71 (Nov 26, 2007)

Tempering for increasing hardness according to my Crucible Alloy book can be done at 315 - 335 F on wrought or cast alloy copper, of course the soak time is dependent on the size and thickness of the part. The annealing process is in the 700 range as you indicated. I did remove the brush springs in several chassis to get this accomplished and successfully re-riveted them together as they were stock. They hold there shape and tension very well and were measured at the Kilogram-force level. 

Thanks for the tip on the Wizz brushes, we were trying to use the stock brushes, I was more concerned with trying to get and keep a better pattern on the brush/com, the notches on the brushes seem to really cause the problems. 
I will adjust the springs accordingly and give those brushes a try.

As for replacing these with T-Jet chassis, these are just cheap & fun for the kids, something that handles good, sorta fast, easy to replace parts etc, nothing serious like a true built Fray car 

Thanks

Boosted


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## brownie374 (Nov 21, 2007)

SuperFist said:


> Contact Bob Beers and have him send you some Aurora T-Jet chassis for $15 ea.
> He has some nice ones. [email protected]
> 
> __________________


Or I sell lighted ones for 5 for $65 shipped and insured to the lower 48 states


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## bearsox (Apr 22, 2006)

*I've found it ok to use the stock brushes but... flip the grove over so it lays atop some sand paper and sand the brush level down some. This makes the brush thinner and leaves the smaller groove so the brush will not spin . Then the shorter brush relieves some tension and allows for better brush position that way. This way ya don't have to toss away the brushes which aren't quite as bad as folks think once worked in some. I too like Wiz brushes but this method ain't a bad alternative if ya got no Wizards handy !

Bear :wave: *


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## Boosted-Z71 (Nov 26, 2007)

Thanks Bear, I am going to give that a try, I have one chassis that is worse than the others in terms of brush alignment, so it is a good candidate.

Boosted


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## partspig (Mar 12, 2003)

Sorry, but it is JMHO that you guys are all wrong about the brushes. I think that you will find that the stock JL brushes are shorter than the the wizzies. The problem you are having lies elsewhere. But what do I know, I'm half blind, senile, and have forgotten more than most guys know!  If you apply your calipers properly, the answer is obvious! :thumbsup: pig


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## Boosted-Z71 (Nov 26, 2007)

Pig what I see as the problem, is that the material that the brush springs are made of have a couple of problems, 1) the parts themselves are far from consistent as far as shape, or bends, 2) the spring itself does not seem to hold tension or shape after you tune them, its like they stress relieve. I am not trying to add a ton of force, more alignment to get a correct contact patch to the com, just simple tweaks in an attempt to maximize performance.


I do agree that the JL brushes are shorter, and they are definitely shorter than JB's Thunder brushes. 

Boosted


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## bearsox (Apr 22, 2006)

partspig said:


> Sorry, but it is JMHO that you guys are all wrong about the brushes. I think that you will find that the stock JL brushes are shorter than the the wizzies. The problem you are having lies elsewhere. But what do I know, I'm half blind, senile, and have forgotten more than most guys know!  If you apply your calipers properly, the answer is obvious! :thumbsup: pig


 How exactly does one know if they have forgotten more than most guys know if you have forgotten it ? 

Bear :wave:


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## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

I forget!


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## mahorsc (Mar 26, 2008)

my fastest cars have the stock brushes i believe less contact on com less drag i do use wiz in some of my road course cars 

first off set up your gear plate take all slop out and find the fastest center gear 

check you brush tension on a power supply see witch brush speeds up car take car back apart and lightly bend up i mean very lightly put back together and check 
you may also bent it up slightly more on one side as com spins it will pull brush up flat to com 
to much tension will make them run hot and have so much brake the car will jump side ways when letting off power


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## clydeomite (May 5, 2004)

Good Morning Folks:
I thought about this post and wondered about removing the " dome" from the AW brushes instead of adjusting the brush arms might be easier. i know thier are claims that they are shorter to begin with but it seems an sensible alternative to bending and heat treatign a very fragile part of the chassis. I also have found hidden power in the idler gear area that often gets overlooked. I like to bevel each side of the center hole so less gear is causing friction and then Chuck the gear in my dremel using a tapered head 2-56 machine screw and double nut and spinning a wire wheel in another dremel to deburr and smooth the teeth out. It WORKS FOR ME. and that is all I really care about I dont race any groups rules so my cars get my mods. Oh i have a jig I made out of plastic to hold motor brushes for cleaning/ filing deburring/ modifying/ Etc out of plastic by drilling a 1/8" hole and then insert motor brush for procedure.
Truly Humble
Clyde-0-Mite


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## 1scalevolvo (Feb 5, 2004)

Boosted-Z71 said:


> Tempering for increasing hardness according to my Crucible Alloy book can be done at 315 - 335 F on wrought or cast alloy copper, of course the soak time is dependent on the size and thickness of the part. The annealing process is in the 700 range as you indicated. I did remove the brush springs in several chassis to get this accomplished and successfully re-riveted them together as they were stock. They hold there shape and tension very well and were measured at the Kilogram-force level.
> 
> Thanks for the tip on the Wizz brushes, we were trying to use the stock brushes, I was more concerned with trying to get and keep a better pattern on the brush/com, the notches on the brushes seem to really cause the problems.
> I will adjust the springs accordingly and give those brushes a try.
> ...


Which rivets & tools do you use to do this ?

Neal:dude:


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## partspig (Mar 12, 2003)

bearsox said:


> How exactly does one know if they have forgotten more than most guys know if you have forgotten it ?
> 
> Bear :wave:


You really want me to answer that stoopid question???? You know your gonna get a stoopid answer, cause I fergot the question already! pig


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## bearsox (Apr 22, 2006)

partspig said:


> You really want me to answer that stoopid question???? pig


Na i'm still trying to digest one of your other old lines .... something like when it comes to humility i'm the greatest !

Bear :wave:


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## Boosted-Z71 (Nov 26, 2007)

A little update, Car #1 I took the stock brushes and took some of the V out of the bottom of the brush & made some additional minor tweaks to the springs and the car ran pretty well, for several laps and then it heated up and slowed just a little, I re-adjusted while it was hot and the speed came right back, so I wound up drilling a hole to vent the chassis on both sides between the mags, this helped with the heat issue. Car # 2 I swapped in a set of Wizz brushes adjusted springs and started lapping, it too began to slow, but seemed to take longer, I ventilated this chassis as well, and adjusted the springs while hot, so far no drop off on either car and I have not been able to tell a huge difference in the brushes, but Car #2 is a little faster now, they were almost identical prior to the brush treatment. So now I am going to throw in a set of Wizz brushes in car #1, just to see if the speed increases on it. I think the key is airflow, and adjusting for max rpm while they are hot. All in all if I can get them to be consistent these are turning into decent race cars, to get them there I have had to balance the arm, true the com plate, replace the rear axle & cluster gear shaft with an .0645 gauge pin, shim the pinion gear, tweak the shoes & springs & true tires, but when I get done I have a nice quite car, 100% opposite from the stock JL. 

Boosted


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

Just curious - which release are the chassis? An Ultra-G or straight T-Jet?


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## Boosted-Z71 (Nov 26, 2007)

Sorry I should have specified they are Ultra-G, we wanted a little magnet help for the kids, well and us old guys too, but still wanted to get that fishtail driving style if you wanted it and can master the slide.

Boosted


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## tjd241 (Jan 25, 2004)

*Ok then.... The $64 question is...*

What is the the best vintage of JL/AW Tjet 500 chassis?? Has anyone ever figured that out??


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

tjd241 said:


> What is the the best vintage of JL/AW Tjet 500 chassis?? Has anyone ever figured that out??


Ask and thee shall be rewarded...

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=203320


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## Boosted-Z71 (Nov 26, 2007)

Today I got time to run the #2 car a little more, I started adjusting the shoes for a correct flat contact patch & to get rid of the black markings, well let me say that after getting the shoes correct, this is a little monster, most of the problems of these cars running poorly or inconsistent is in the hook on the shoe, its just bent poorly from the factory. I adjusted both cars shoes, and the lap times on the GlassRing dropped by over 1 second, well into the low 6 second laps, and they handle great. They can be made to run quite well, fun car, for little cash and some bench work.

Boosted


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## bearsox (Apr 22, 2006)

Boosted here's a great thread on another location that can help with those pesky shoes !  Click here http://slotcars.yuku.com/topic/538# 
*Taming the Wild JL/AW T-Jet Revisited: Shoes*


Bear :wave:


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

Boosted-Z71 said:


> Today I got time to run the #2 car a little more, I started adjusting the shoes for a correct flat contact patch & to get rid of the black markings, well let me say that after getting the shoes correct, this is a little monster, most of the problems of these cars running poorly or inconsistent is in the hook on the shoe, its just bent poorly from the factory. I adjusted both cars shoes, and the lap times on the GlassRing dropped by over 1 second, well into the low 6 second laps, and they handle great. They can be made to run quite well, fun car, for little cash and some bench work.
> 
> Boosted


This trick is actually ancient lost knowledge from the golden age. Many Tuff Ones cars were spastic, jittering, slot jumpers that benifitted greatly by just raising the shoe hook. 

Somewhere in Swamper Genes posts are some great stills demonstrating the condition and I have a quick how to vid in the way back of Model Murdering.


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## Boosted-Z71 (Nov 26, 2007)

I sure wish I could find the info on the the things that I am figuring out on my own on these cars, My tweak time would be much shorter. But I sure appreciate you guys pointing me in the right direction.

Thanks for the links & info 

Boosted


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## bearsox (Apr 22, 2006)

Dude we all watch these postings looking to find a nugget ! Sometimes we have one to share of our own and sometime we can point to another guy but much of the time we lurk and hope to learn more ! Now it's back to the observation deck for me LOL !

Bear :wave:


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## mahorsc (Mar 26, 2008)

sounds like you still have to much brush tension or the car is to close to the track to much drag will make them get hot 
my cars never get hot not even warm we race 5 min heats with 1min between lanes 30min races on a 6 lane on all tracks we race on the big oval 24x4 6 lane tko we run 2.9 sec laps a stock life like turn 2.6 2.7 and my jl/aw cars are faster in the straights 
you also can put ogan shoe spring in them an it take coil bind out and will help them handle


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## Boosted-Z71 (Nov 26, 2007)

Right now I am kinda experimenting with tire height, .400 rears puts the magnet between .006 & .007 off the rail, (that is a rail that is .014 out of the routed track), I know I am not dragging anywhere as I sharpied the magnet and it had no wear marks. I had considered raising the car as well, to say .010 off the rail, just to see what happens, As of last night I ran 25-30 laps and the heat was good, the arm was in the 115-120F range just after running and you could keep your finger on the pinion, so I think I am gaining on them, I did make some more brush adjustments as well and the cars responded well. The plan is to build 10, nearly identical cars, so right now I am tweaking the first 2 together, they are amazingly close, and lately both cars are responding well to the tweaks and information you guys suggested. 

Thanks for the replies

Boosted


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## Boosted-Z71 (Nov 26, 2007)

*Heat Factor*

OK, I have 3 cars built, but one car has been very inconsistent, fast one day slow the next etc, I finally got the shoes tweaked on it and it ran great, for a while, so it was back to checking the brush alignment and pressure, This is the chassis that the front brush spring is not centered in the brush hole like I would like it to be. I completely reworked the spring to get it formed right, It looks like it was assembled and they missed getting the spring on the rivet hole but set the rivet anyway. So in my quest to fix this I took the car apart many times to adjust / check the brushes and inspect the chassis and arm to see what was going on. All the while, sometimes the car ran great and sometimes it ran at 1/2 to 5/8 speed. Well last night I found the problem it was with the com plate, the plating had came loose from the base material on the plate and was floating, and varying the brush tension. I am going to put a new plate on the arm to try to save it as it ran very good. Anyway here is a pic of the arm plate. It did burn some on the com plate and chassis but there had been no burning prior. I bent the plating up for a better picture but you get the idea of how much was loose and floating.

Boosted


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