# Some hope for slots



## Shadowracer (Sep 11, 2004)

*Some hope for slots??*

Been reading the "JL release 4 cancelled" thread about RC2's apparent abandonment of the JL slotcar line, and thought I would post this...simply as a positive take on the subject.

Greg Braun of hoslotcarracing.com is, from what I gather, a fairly well respected name in the slot car biz, and is a frequent poster on another HO board. He posted this not too long ago in a discussion about aftermarket track parts (ie the 18 inch Tomy compatibles etc) I should also mention that Greg is not a big fan of the JL line

quote
_"A few surprises are on the horizon though. Some forward
looking people understand that what racers want is not
another resin cast 1963 Ford Fairlane or yet another muscle
car, but real race cars.

The fact that Ford GT-40s, old Cobras and vintage Can Am
and Trans Am cars, not to mention properly decorated
Formula 1 cars have been very successful for 1:32
manufacturers has been noticed.

A new chassis that's easily repaired, and fun to drive is also in
the works. It will bring back some of the sliding action the
earlier Aurora cars offered without the tedium of a Johnny
Lightning."_ unquote

Anyway, there it is for whatever its worth. Hope...maybe.

Time will tell.

Trev


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

I almost always agree with Gregory and this time is no different. I noticed that he recently updated his site to describe how much he enjoys the Aurora G-Plus, which is about my favorite chassis/car selection of all time. 

I have heard about a coming series of authentic vintage "real race car" bodies. But this is the first I've ever heard about a new chassis. I know that the racing folks out in the Pacific Northwest (HOPAC) have been running a "G3 Lite" series, which are BSRT G3s without the traction magnets. These end up being roughly comparable to a Aurora G-Plus. Producing a variation of the G3 without any provision for traction magnets and easier insertion and removal of the arm/magnets/endbell assembly might fit the bill. I'd be more inclined to think that an "easy to repair" chassis would have an open frame style motor (like the Tomy Turbo) that could be snapped in and out as a single unit. 

Interesting, very interesting.........


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## Captain Fred (Feb 19, 2000)

I kinda figure that someone else could and maybe would step up and either produce another line or revive an old one. If someone has a tighter design on a chassis that has the drift action, that's good news. 

A while back, I had considered selling or trading off some of my duplicates. Now I think I will hang onto what I have until I see what the future holds........Hmmmmmmmmmm.................I suppose an asteroid could crash into the earth though, then I might not have any use for any of them! :drunk:


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## Shadowracer (Sep 11, 2004)

AfxToo said:


> I noticed that he recently updated his site to describe how much he enjoys the Aurora G-Plus, which is about my favorite chassis/car selection of all time.


Just curious...How does the on track performance of the Aurora Gplus stack up to the Super G by Tomy? Maybe Im a stickler...but the Tomy ones just don't do anything for me....too rediculoulsly fast to really enjoy on my home set. Unfortunately we dont all have the space for the 16 foot straights these Super Gs need to really strut their stuff.

Anyhow, any slot thats actually being produced is a good slot. I hope that they actually get produced.

I still submit that Id like most of all to see someone produce motors and chassis for the scratchbuilders...like the 1:32 womps, and lots of different kinds of bodies. (although on this board, we seem to have bodies covered :thumbsup: )

Trev


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

Trev, a stock Aurora G-Plus is stickier than a Magnetraction but nowhere near a Tomy SG+ or even a Tomy Turbo. The Aurora G-Plus is a great chassis for intermediate size layouts. The Aurora Super G-Plus has stronger magnets than the plain G-Plus but it's still not anything like the Tomy chassis.


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## ParkRNDL (Mar 20, 2002)

How is ANY variation of a modern inline car gonna be a slider like the "earlier Aurora cars"? I mean, I've never tried a Tyco or Tomy magnet car with the traction mags removed, and maybe someone here who's done it can enlighten me, but I can't imagine sliding a car around a 9" curve at anything approaching SG+/440/LL speeds. The analogy that comes to mind is running a new Corvette or Viper or 911 Turbo on the F78-14s off my old Nova. It seems like it'd just launch waaay off into the far corner of the basement. I mean, my 16 foot table has two roughly 13 foot straights. How soon after I nail it on the front straight am I gonna have to back off to make the corner at the end? Maybe if they were geared waaaay down or had a different type of motor that had a lower RPM peak...

Don't get me wrong, it sounds neat and I'm willing to try new stuff, I just wonder...

(JL Tjets are TEDIOUS? AAACK!! I know, I know, the guy isn't a JL fan, but the hair on the back of my neck is STILL standing on end... :freak: )

--rick


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## Shadowracer (Sep 11, 2004)

ParkRNDL said:


> (JL Tjets are TEDIOUS? AAACK!! I know, I know, the guy isn't a JL fan, but the hair on the back of my neck is STILL standing on end... :freak: )
> --rick


Well I've read a lot of Gregory's posts, and I think hes referring to the amount of tweaking you need to do to get em to run right. I can't argue too much with that.


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## nick danger (Apr 7, 2002)

Well, If anyone thinks tweakng Tjets is tedious should definately get a few lessons from an experienced builder/racer or find another hobby. I find that statement ridiculous. One of the main reasons I enjoy Tjets is finding new ways to make them run better. If you don't enjoy working with your hands, you won't enjoy Tjets at all. 

I guess some people just expect instant gratification. I'm glad I'm not one of them! 

NICK DANGER


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

Bringing back "some of the sliding action the earlier Aurora cars" is a relative thing. I agree with Rick that no chassis that was purpose built with magnetic downforce as a primary component of the design is a true "slider." Neither the Aurora Magnetraction nor the G-Plus are true sliders. 

From a downforce standpoint the Magnetraction and G-Plus are very similar. The G-Plus just has a lot more power because of its much more efficient motor and gearing. With only the normally oriented motor magnets to aid traction both of these chassis do exhibit a good deal of slide action. 

Likewise, when you slam a TJet down real low and load it up with Super II or JLTO magnets it's no longer completely devoid of magnetic downforce. If we're going to talk about "real sliders" then I would point out that my old Riggens and TycoPros have slide action that makes a TJet seem rather tame.

I see all HO slot chassis as being on a sliding scale from TJets riding on skinnies to the latest RTR magnet car with silicone sponge tires and the strongest traction magnets you can find. That's part of what makes the HO slot car hobby so wonderful and unique. There's a lot of variety and something for everyone. Some of us just happen to like them all. 

My only knock on JL and pancake cars in general is that there are very, very few racing bodies available for them. Open wheel (F1, Indy) bodies are almost non existent and where they do exist (slimlines) the chassis are anemic at best. So if you like slot cars in any other flavor other than US sedans and muscle cars and a few novelty pieces you are left with slim pickins' unless you go the inline route.


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## hefer (Sep 18, 1999)

The Tyco Pro had no traction mags. Slide action is one thing, all I ever got was wheel spin...all the way down the track.


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## Shadowracer (Sep 11, 2004)

nick danger said:


> Well, If anyone thinks tweakng Tjets is tedious should definately get a few lessons from an experienced builder/racer or find another hobby.


Oh yeah, THAT'S how you sell slot cars to the general public...tell em they should find another hobby. Sheesh. Talk about rediculous statements.

Listen, I have bought a total of 4 of the JL tjets. Of those 4, only one of em ran worth a damn out of the box. There were no tuning instructions, no parts diagrams, not even a note telling me they needed to be oiled. In that regard JL dropped the ball. 

I stumbled across these boards and learned what I needed to learn to make em go. I'm a hobbyist, I don't resent that I had to do that. But in the end, I shouldn't have needed to. (And I'm not even talking about race/speed tuning...I had to do research just to find out how to make them run properly around my track.)

ANd yes, when I had 3 BRAND NEW cars lined up that I had to make work properly, it did get a little tedious. 

Is this good business? Is it wrong to expect a slot car to at least run when you get it home? Consider it a kids-these-days-and-their-instant-gratification issue if you want, but in this day and age, (or any other day and age) if you sell something, it should work. Let the racers tweek and tweek for max performance. Just give the kids and the "just for fun" guys a slot car that'll actually work without having to take it apart first. 

Thats not asking too much and its not lazy. I love the JL cars as much as anyone now, but JL was lucky the message boards exist. Otherwise Id've pitched em all out.


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## JordanZ870 (Nov 25, 2004)

hefer said:


> The Tyco Pro had no traction mags. Slide action is one thing, all I ever got was wheel spin...all the way down the track.


 That was a long time ago, that tecnology with the built in "slide-guide" and button or foil pick-ups.(but buttons were better). Atleast they had limited travel. No one had heard of silicone tires. Spongies and glue were the hot ticket, you know?
As soon as I put silicones on my tycopro chassis, thet scooted pretty darn good.


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

TycoPros need soft silicone tires glued to the rims to work well (like the "white boots" that became standard equipment at some point) but they are still overpowered for the weight of the car and chassis. Driving a TycoPro fast on a road course with 18V or higher from the power supply is a challenge. Brakes are required. A 60 ohm or higher controller helps. I came across a TycoPro power pack recently and I seem to recall that it was only 12 or 14 volts.

As far as the JL cars needing tweaking and maintenance right out of the box is concerned, I think a lot of it has to do with the assumptions that PM/JL made about these cars before the first one shipped. The JL cars are simply copies of the Aurora cars and they were targeted at people who collect the Aurora cars. I cut PM/JL more slack because they were clearly targeting people who are already familiar with the chassis and they weren't selling complete race sets.

When the original Aurora cars were shipped with race sets the fact that the cars required maintenance was made very clear to consumers. Aurora usually, if not always, included oil with the set along with a chassis diagram that showed where to oil. Hobbyists of that era were also more inclined to expect to have to clean and maintain any mechanical toy. Train sets that preceeded slot cars required cleaning and oiling. It was just an accepted practice. 

PM/JL must have assumed that buyers of their new slot cars were already well aware of what they were (Aurora clones) and what they needed as far as care and maintenance is concerned. When these assumption failed to meet with customer's expectations is where the major problems occurred. An oiling diagram and perhaps a tuning guide would have been nice. 

My initial out of box experience with the R1 JLTO cars was like anyone else who ever had an Aurora TuffOnes. I expected that I could at least take the car out of the package, apply a dab of oil to the bottom hole, make sure the pickups were clean, and send it on its way for a few break-in laps. I expected that it would run okay but still require an initial cleaning, oiling, and some minor adjustments after the little break-in period to get it running good. Boy, was I wrong. The R1 JLTO cars I got had serious brush spring problems and hopped & skipped down the track in the most spastic fashion. Egad! Some of the chassis were warped and the gears meshed poorly and the whole geartrain was slathered in thick grease yet it still whined. Getting the R1 chassis to run properly required a bit more serious tweaking than what I expected but at least my experience with TJets helped me out. Later releases kept getting better and I'd have to say that the JLTO chassis is now to the point where it can be run right out of the box, at least for break-in, and fewer tweaks are needed to get it running well. They've come a long way from R1 but there's still room for improvement.


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## dlw (Aug 17, 1999)

*Parts Breakdown and Instructions*

The old Afx cars came with a little pamphlet that had a parts breakdown and hints to keep a car running well. What JL/RC could do is to put this info on the other side of that folded paper you see behind the car. That way, there's no worry about putting an extra piece of paper in each box.


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## Captain Fred (Feb 19, 2000)

I'm a fan of HO trains, as well as slot cars. I played with my step brother's original Auroras back in the early 70s. I never had an original Aurora that was as troublesome as some of the JLs I have. I have a R1 Snakeyes Cobra that is pretty much usless. I tried messing with it, but it's probably gonna take some aftermarket parts to get it going down the track. It was brand new. I threw it in with my parts graveyard. Granted, I have some later release JLTOs that are quite impressive performers. I let Brian put a neo magnet under a couple of my newer JLTOs and a set of silicones, a little oil and they're just awesome. They'll give a XT/Magna Traction a run for the money. I also had trouble with my JLXTs. The first one I put on the track acted like the gears were stripped or something. I had already read about the gear meshing problem on these boards already, so I didn't freak out and take it back. I was able to get it going, but it still doesn't run quite right. Then there's the hobbling problem on some of them too. Sheesh!

I do agree that any new slotcar ought to at least run OK, right out of the box. In a few of my experiences with JLs, they wouldn't even make the first lap. This would be a major turnoff for any newbie. I know how to take them apart & re assemble them, but I didn't feel I should have to rebuild them just to get them to run at all, not a brand spankin new one anyway. I don't own a wheel press, so the crooked axle/hub XT cars are kinda semi usless too. I'm not practiced at the art of tuning for speed. Eventually, I'll fix them, but I shouldn't have to.


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## Shadowracer (Sep 11, 2004)

I guess in my response to Headbanger, I inadvertently steered my own thread off topic. oops 

Anyway, I do in fact hope that someone can get something together thats good enough, and taken seriously enough, and well supported enough to stay around for awhile. My main beef with HO, and the reason I almost scrapped everything and went to 1:32, is that for the most part, if you want to buy a decent slot car, you have to buy old stock. (Admittedly, I'm not taking into account the higher end stuff aimed at pure racers.) 

Thats pretty unfortunate. And I hope someone's ready to jump in. It kinda sounds like someone's thinking about it. And thats a good thing.

Trev


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## GoodwrenchIntim (Feb 22, 2005)

OH man the tyco pros. gotta love em, fast as sh*t an slide like the dickens , but yes you need good silicone tires an they are a blast, as AFXToo said they are originally for 12 volts, 18 an they are HAIRY!!!!! WOOHOO

AS for JL, they dont impress me, maybe its cause you basically have to rebuild the whole car an use some aftermarket parts (wheels, sometimes gears) to get them running good, Maybe JL should offer these as kits instead, so you do the tweaking as you build it, maybe then you wouldnt get the bad gear lap an off center wheels they get by having a machine put them on


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## bumpercar88 (Feb 6, 2005)

Let's face it JL and MM give us some nice bodies at a nice price but the chassis are terrible. But is it worth it to them to put the time in to better chassis w/ all the high performance parts out there? I would love to see them release chassis w/ Super II magnets and brush tubes w/ JB's Thunderbrushes, ported metal gears, hand wound armatures, plated p/u shoes, 22T crown gears and aluminum rims w/ sponge tires. But I don't know if I'd be willing to pay $40.00 a car or $480 a case. They know their niche is the body!


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## sethndaddy (Dec 4, 2004)

Besides release 1, most johnny lightning cars I dealt with just needed a little oil and off they went (not to say I didn't find any crapolas in there) but most were fine, but I race in the basement with the kids and occasional friend.
You can't beat the price either.


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## buzzinhornet (Jan 20, 2000)

JL didn't market these cars toward kids. It says "Adult Collectable" on every box I've bought. They know the buyers of these cars most likely already have experience w/ slot cars. 

Yes, the seires 1 cars were very rough but they made changes and HAVE improved both the chassis and bodies over time. Many of the cars I've bought cost me $6.00 or less. The arms and magnets are worth that alone and then you're getting a decent body too. 

I hate to see the JL TO and XT line vanish.... 

G.P.


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## sethndaddy (Dec 4, 2004)

buzzinhornet said:


> JL didn't market these cars toward kids. It says "Adult Collectable" on every box I've bought.
> G.P.


Gee, every box I bought says that too, I guess I shouldn't let the kids race?????
whats that about? All I was saying is I like J.L. cars alot, and because I dont do the weekly "competative racing" there pretty much ok out of the box.
Buzzinhornet, I'm sorry and apoligize to you if i'm taking it wrong, but It sounded to me like a jab at me?


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## Captain Fred (Feb 19, 2000)

To me, slot cars are better than most video games. I wish more people felt this way. I didn't mean to get into a "slam JL" discussion. I just wanted to make the point that as slot car brands go, JL is one of the most troublesome brands that I have owned. For the price, they are still a great deal. I enjoy tinkering sometimes. I keep a slotcar graveyard around just for that purpose. But for someone that doesn't know how to fix them, they aren't so great. Someone just getting into slots would likely be turned off of the JL line if they just happened to pick up a dud.

The percentage of JL duds has actually been pretty small compared to the numbers of good ones that I have ended up with. Right now I have too many slotcars and too many other priorities to justify ordering special tools & aftermarket parts just to get a few duds working. If I break one of my runners or I need a tuneup kit, I'll just get out one of my duds. Also, I'm not really much of a racer. I would like to get more into it though. Eventually, I would like to order some aftermarket parts and try fixing & souping up some of those duds. I'm still a newbie as far as the finer points of tuning for speed, so I wouldn't know exactly where to start, what to order or what not to order. I'm sure I could study up on it by just reading these boards.
It would also motivate me a little more if I could find some other guys around here to run with.


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## buzzinhornet (Jan 20, 2000)

sethndaddy said:


> Gee, every box I bought says that too, I guess I shouldn't let the kids race?????
> whats that about? All I was saying is I like J.L. cars alot, and because I dont do the weekly "competative racing" there pretty much ok out of the box.
> Buzzinhornet, I'm sorry and apoligize to you if i'm taking it wrong, but It sounded to me like a jab at me?


No need to apoligize sethndaddy. My post was NOT directed at you. Not only do I respect your opinion, I basicly agree with it. As someone else pionted out, out of all the manufacturers out there JL are the most "defective" out of the box. (But that has'nt stop me from owning a bunch of 'em.) I was just pointing out that JL marketed these toward adults. I never mention kids in my post. By all means any chance we get to share this hobby with kids we should. 

I like this forum and all who post here.  Don't mean to step on anyones toes... 

G.P.


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