# Gamescience miniatures



## Guest (Oct 21, 2002)

Hey dudes, Does anybody here remember the very small (don't know the scale) TOS Enterprise models,gamepieces,or whatever they were,put out by "Gamescience Miniatures" about 15-20 years ago? They were about 2 and 1/4" long and had 5 or six parts,and very accurate for the small size. If so, are they still available somewhere? I think they were gamepieces for some ST game. They came with little stands too. Thanks in advance. P.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Yup, I got a bunch of them on my shelf, with my first attempts at homemade decals on them. The USS Hope on my kitbash page is made from the Gamescience dreadnought. It's my teeniest kitbash . I'd love to know if they're still available too!


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## Joe Brown (Nov 16, 1999)

Try shopping here:

http://www.starfleetgames.com/


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## Guest (Oct 22, 2002)

*Thanks John P.!!!*

Hey Thanks John P.!!! You are a good guy to have around! I gotta get me some of those ships!! I've seen them many years ago,but did'nt get em'. I remember the detail was pretty decent. I would love to see a big kit (maybe in scale with the forthcoming PL TOS Enterprise) of the Dreadnaught. Love that thing. Oh, and the USS Fanboy was way cool man. You Rock!! Thanks again Pal! L.L.A.P.!!!:thumbsup:


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## Guest (Oct 22, 2002)

*OOOPS!!*

Sorry,JOE BROWN! I gave John P. the Thanks meant for you. You are good to have around too! Was'nt paying attention. Thanks for the info bro!


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## Barry Yoner (Mar 6, 1999)

*YES!! You CAN get them!*

They are being produced under the Star Fleet Battles/ Amarillo Design bureau label. They're being made in what's called a "Fleet Box" and I believe this particular product is being called Federation Fleet Box 2. They should be available or orderable through any decent gaming shop. I've heard some rumors that some gaming stores won't carry any of the SFB stuff, so check to see that your local store will order it. I don't have a stock # at this time... and I'm not entirely certain that they are out, but they should be according to information I saw a month or so ago.


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## Barry Yoner (Mar 6, 1999)

*Look here!!*

You can get them from ADB directly. Here's the link to their Federation Miniatures page which lists them as Fleet Box 2 (scroll down a little ways) and separately if you just need to fill out a couple here and there.

http://www.starfleetstore.com/MERCHANT2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=S&Category_Code=FM


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## Joe Brown (Nov 16, 1999)

*Re: OOOPS!!*



mysterion27 said:


> *Sorry,JOE BROWN! I gave John P. the Thanks meant for you. You are good to have around too! Was'nt paying attention. Thanks for the info bro!  *


ummm... er, right! 

I was quite flattered for a moment or two. Actually, I'm John P.'s Number 1 fan! Just ask him!


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

What was that name again?


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## Joe Brown (Nov 16, 1999)

See!


I *told* you!


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## capt Locknar (Dec 29, 2002)

Barry Yoner said:


> They are being produced under the Star Fleet Battles/ Amarillo Design bureau label. They're being made in what's called a "Fleet Box" and I believe this particular product is being called Federation Fleet Box 2. They should be available or orderable through any decent gaming shop. I've heard some rumors that some gaming stores won't carry any of the SFB stuff, so check to see that your local store will order it. I don't have a stock # at this time... and I'm not entirely certain that they are out, but they should be according to information I saw a month or so ago.


Actually the Gamescience miniatures are a completely different line being produced by Lou Zocchi under the Gamescience Miniatures Label under a license from Karen (originally Franz Joseph who actually oversaw and approved the originals) and they are injection molded plastic, while the ADB ones are white metal and licensed under an older paramount license. I think but I may be wrong the only ones that Lou Produced that were white metal were a Romulan BOP, a klingon Cruiser, and the Tholian Ship, all the others he produced and still currently produces are injection molded plastic, available in white, Clear (cloaked) and Glow in the dark plastic. They are all currently available through Hobby Towns too. They should be able to order them through Gamescience in the Role Playing Dice Section (as Gamescience Also does RPG Dice) and they are really affordable at between 6-8 bucks a peice. Currently there is the TOS enterprise, The Scout, The Destroyer, The Tug, and the The Dreadnought. I'm not sure if he is still making the Romulan, Klingon and Tholian or not though.


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## Barry Yoner (Mar 6, 1999)

Captain, I had the Gamescience miniatures separately when the Battle Manual came out, later in the Battle Manual boxed set and during my more active Star Fleet Battles days...

The plastic ships were put under the Starline 2200 line. They are completely indistinguishable from my original Gamescience ships... it was my understanding that Task Force Games had also liscenced the Gamescience miniatures since ADB had also liscenced the ships from the Tech Manual for SFB. The original Klingon D7 was white metal, quite soft and that miniature never stood the test of time well. The original Romulan and Tholian miniatures was very small, also white metal.

Fast forward to today... while I have no idea what Zocchi/Gamescience is doing these days in regards with the D7, Romulan or Tholian, they are supposedly supplying the plastic Federation ships for Federation Fleet Box #2. ADB has stated a number of times that these ARE the plastic ships, not new molds. I haven't bought this fleet box to confirm the contents, but I have handled it and it is quite light in comparsion to Fleet Box #1 with it's metal ships.

At one time, there was a metal casting of the Federation Heavy Cruiser. A direct comparison of the one I have shows that this mini is a totally new casting and doesn't have any resemblance to the plastic version in a number of areas. The plastic one is still superior in appearance!


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## darkrazor (May 13, 2012)

*Game science minatures*

I know where you can get the enterprise you are talking about. Its the set made under licence, the issue here is you would have to buy the whole set its a:

1 Dreadnaught
1 Heavy Cruiser 
1 Tug with two pods
2 Destroyer/ Scouts 

there made out of clear injection molded plastic with the exception of one of the Destroyer/Scout(s) which is white for some reason.

The other cool thing about them is they come with decals, so no home made jobbies needed, and enough to do more than just the set.

I cant find a supply of the klingon or romulan ships however, I wish I could because the guy offers a line of decals for the klingons and romulans too.

By the way the scale they are in is 1/3788.

The other thing is there reasonably priced and good detail. I have 5 sets of them I use. I use them for FASA Star Trek Combat simulator.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

"They're"


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## Fozzie (May 25, 2009)

darkrazor said:


> I know where you can get the enterprise you are talking about.


Where?


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## Larrold (May 14, 2012)

Actually, they are part of Squadron Box #91 available at Starfleet Games for $34.95. The box includes the heavy cruiser (Constitution class), dreadnought, scout, destroyer and tug in white plastic. Since this is my first post on this board, I can't post the URL yet, but search Starfleet Games and go to the Order Products page then look for the Starline 2400 Federation miniatures. Box 91 is the last one on that page.


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## Fozzie (May 25, 2009)

Thank you. Found it easily following your instructions.


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## CLBrown (Sep 8, 2010)

*Got a bunch of these in a shoebox...*

As several folks have pointed out, these were originally produced by Lou Zocchi as companion pieces for the Gamescience "Starfleet Battle Manual." Zocchi was primary a guy who made those large multifaced die used in tabletop gaming... if you ever bought a glow-in-the-dark 20-sided die, you likely bought something from Zocchi.

Zocchi put together the ships from the Starfleet Technical Manual as plastic ships, and he clearly made some really top-quality molds, since they're still useable (and only slightly degraded) today. The original parts were first put out in... I believe 1975, or perhaps 1976. So those molds have been in near-continuous (if low-volume) usage for thirty-six years!

He also produced several metal ships, which were of somewhat lesser quality in my opinion. There was a Klingon ship, made in two parts (a boom/bridge and a main hull where you had to carefully bend the wingtips and engines downwards using a hard straightedge), and a set which included one Tholian and one Romulan (both of which were quite nice, but quite small... albeit the Romulan was in proper scale for the Federation ships, the Tholian was obviously dramatically oversized.

All of these used a common stand, also molded by Zocchi, originally 1-piece stands, molded in black with large D-pins, then similar ones with smaller D-pins, then identical but in clear rather than black, and finally clear with a separately molded "post" which needed to be glued in (and in the case of the metal ships, the post was also metal in these later versions).

The stand is circular, with the four primary naval directions (fore/aft/port/starboard) marked in the appropriate arcs. The stand had four rectangular ribs. The main purpose of these ribs was to permit you to mount a heavy cardstock "compass card" onto the base. There would also be a little plastic washer supplied... the purpose of which was to tie a length of fishing line or thread to in order to simulate weapons fire. You'd estimate the angle to fire over, then (with a friend... the string was normally something like four feet long as I recall) stretch it out. Ideally, your called shot would actually pass over the profile of the ship printed on the compass card of your target, and it would be called a "hit."

Key to all this is that there was no "hex grid" involved. Instead, you made navigational changes using the headings on the compass card, just like you'd call out your firing vectors. Movement was calculated (using the old WF^3 standard) and you'd move using a straightedge (the compass cards were square, so this was pretty easy). While you had impulse engines, they were only able to allow you to rotate, but not to move (because, relative to any warp speeds, impulse is essentially the same as being stationary). They did provide additional power, however.

It was a blast. I would have played it a lot more, but few of my friends at that point wanted to do this, preferring to play with their trucks in the mud outside, or to blow up their G.I. Joes. Even today, I'd love to have a direct, computerized version of this game. (The Starfleet Command games came reasonably close, but weren't quite the same.)

Back to the ships... the plastic ships were molded in several colors. Originally, in a slightly tan-tinted white, later in a more grey-white and pure white. Additionally, quite a few were molded in clear (and were marketed as "cloaked") while there were also glow-in-the-dark versions, in both green and blue glows (the green was much brighter, but the blue looked a lot cooler in my opinion).

Once Gamescience was forced to stop selling their "Starfleet Battle Manual," Zocchi started selling his products through Amarillo, and they became the "default" parts to go with Amarillo's "Starfleet Battle," which was a hex-grid-based tabletop game. SFB also had some metal ships, but the plastic ships were much higher quality, at least in the beginning. (Amarillo made some better-quality metal ships eventually, though).

The Zocchi/Gamescience ships also are "very close" to the same scale as the FASA ships... close enough to sit alongside them on a display shelf and seem to all fit together. I have a little place on one of my bookshelves where I have pretty much all the various Zocchi and FASA ships, all together. (And right below there is the whole "Agents of Gaming" B5 fleet...) Plus, most of the "specials" (clear, glow, etc) in a shoebox in the basement.

It's not as good as a large-scale ship, mind you, but it's very, very good for having a fleet of "everything." My home isn't able to be overcome by that much geek-dom... and I know I'm going to have to argue over space for my Enterprise (maybe even have to store away the Master Replicas phaser, communicator, and tricorder I have out now as a compromise!)

*****************

Edit: I found a pretty good reference, complete with photos (including the compass-cards) of the ships as used in the "Starfleet Battle Manual."

http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/3667/star-fleet-battle-manual


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

I have to echo the quality of the plastic Gamescience miniatures as being superb. I continue to be amazed at how, even at 1/3788 scale, Mr. Zocchi had the most accurate starship models with the most intricate details produced with such finesse that plastic kit manufacturers today still have extreme difficulty reproducing such fine details in their molds (i.e. grid lines), even with the most sophisticated state-of-the-art computers and milling machines.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

I used them for this bash just last year:
http://www.inpayne.com/models/kitbash/trekpage_51.html


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## Rattrap (Feb 23, 1999)

ADB's shop has moved. It's now at:

https://www169.safesecureweb.com/starfleetstore/merchant2/merchant.mvc?


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