# Pager Motor Conversion Article



## slotto (Feb 9, 2010)

I found a great article from the past that explains how to convert a T-Jet pancake over to a pager motor. 

http://howorld.fsmra.com/archives/howto/stclair/67vette.html

enjoy
steve


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## slotcarman12078 (Oct 3, 2008)

I've tossed around pager motors, the low voltage holds me back. They are usually designed for 1.5 - 3 volts. A current limiting resistor could be wired in to help with that, but I'm not sure what value resistor, and more importantly, what watt resistor would be needed. It is an interesting concept though, seeings that Buds has JL/AW chassis bases cheap, and the pager motors are available for a few bucks. It could be a fun, low cost chassis, and the fact that the gear plate isn't there can make for some serious slamming room! :thumbsup:


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## ParkRNDL (Mar 20, 2002)

I know pager motors are REALLY small, but does this bit of knowledge from SwamperGene apply in this case? If so, maybe they'd hold up okay at standard slot car voltages.

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showpost.php?p=3352406&postcount=37

--rick


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## slotcarman12078 (Oct 3, 2008)

That would depend on the material the brushes are made from, the maximum RPMs the motor can withstand, and how much torque it's capable of producing. That little motor I got from that guy in the UK is a pretty stout 12V motor. I have yet to put it in something. I'm not sure what it's rated for torque-wise, but I couldn't stop it by trying to grab the shaft while it was running. Darn near burnt my fingers trying to grip it! :lol: I'll shop around a little after my 1:1 car gets to running again. Until then, I'm walking and saving for repairs...


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## lenny (Feb 29, 2000)

slotcarman12078 said:


> T...That little motor I got from that guy in the UK is a pretty stout 12V motor...


Did you get your 12 volt pager from Nigel Lawton?


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## slotcarman12078 (Oct 3, 2008)

Yes sir. Nice chap he is. I've yet to mess with it again. It is a tiny, stout little motor he sold me!!


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## grungerockjeepe (Jan 8, 2007)

any pics or other info on that little motor? How much was it and where did you get it?


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## slotcarman12078 (Oct 3, 2008)

Man, I hate it when this happens... I stay away from the bench for a few weeks and things get sucked into a black hole. I can't find the motor...anywhere! 

http://www.nigellawton009.com/MiniMotors.html
Nigel has some cool stuff for scratch building. It's a bit of a chore navigating around the site, but worth the effort. He has little sleeves for adapting smaller motor shafts up a size. Sadly they're metric sizes, but might be close enough for SAE applications. The worm/pinion set are good, I messed the worm gear up a little due to solder on the iron's tip getting in the gear. The pulleys looked kind of interesting, but the belts couldn't handle the resistance of my sloppy brass chassis design. For the money, it's fun stuff to play with. I never did mess around with it once I took it off the truck frame. 

http://www.nigellawton009.com/PayPalMotors.html

He ships rather quickly, and it took less than 2 weeks to get here, and it was US customs who held it up.


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## grungerockjeepe (Jan 8, 2007)

Man, I gotta check that site out! Looks like a lot of cool stuff there. Hey, wonder if the pinion from a lifelike T chassis would fit that? If so, it could get pretty interesting.


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## slotcarman12078 (Oct 3, 2008)

The shaft is 1.0 mm. He sells adapters to step it up to 1.5 mm, and I believe 2.0 also. I'm happy with the quality of what I bought, I only wish the belts were a bit thicker.


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

How about an O ring set up? I kinda like the worm gear idea.


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## slotcarman12078 (Oct 3, 2008)

The pulleys were kind of tight width wise. The worm if done correctly is killer!! :thumbsup:


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## grungerockjeepe (Jan 8, 2007)

Worm gears give you a slow car though. If you could scavenge the geartrain from one of those micro RC cars, Id think a pretty killer sidewinder setup could be done with this.


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## slotnewbie69 (Dec 3, 2008)

yep.jsut what i was thinking.smaller spur gear,and your font wheel drive car would be a snap!just reverse the wires so you run in the right direction.you could mount it behind the front axle,and reverse the polarity so it ran forwards rather than backwards...hmmm got me thinking now...


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## grungerockjeepe (Jan 8, 2007)

A sidewinder fwd was actually my first idea. Till I realized that no gearset I had could possibly work without adding a small idler gear. That would be tedious to set up.


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## slotnewbie69 (Dec 3, 2008)

couldn't you just miniaturize a 1/32 set up??iene larger gear next to the wheel,with the pinion driving it?
a motor like that seems to be conducive to that...but that does look pretty large to fit under a car body,on second glance..


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

grungerockjeepe said:


> Man, I gotta check that site out! Looks like a lot of cool stuff there. Hey, wonder if the pinion from a lifelike T chassis would fit that? If so, it could get pretty interesting.


Should do. 

I have used his adapters to go in the other direction too, and fit standard pinions to the T motor shaft. Nominally the T shaft is 1mm, all others 1.5mm.


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## lenny (Feb 29, 2000)

slotnewbie69 said:


> couldn't you just miniaturize a 1/32 set up??iene larger gear next to the wheel,with the pinion driving it?
> a motor like that seems to be conducive to that...but that does look pretty large to fit under a car body,on second glance..


It's really not. The motor is small, an amazing motor for the size and rated at 12 volts from the factory. Most pager motors will burn up quickly at 12 volts. 

I've experimented around with this motor in an angle and sidewinder configuration, not by adapting a t-jet but by going the Riggen or Cobra type setup. 

I really like the sidewinder idea with a motor this size because then I can design slot car bodies with real interiors, opening doors, etc...

For pinion gears that'll fit on smaller shafts, there are some sites you can go to the cater to the 'home flying' crowd, those tiny airplanes that you can fly indoors.

Here are a few links you might want to check out if interested:

http://www.didel.com/microkit/pricelist/

http://www.gasparin.cz/page.php?page=rc/articles/pager/pager&lng=cz

http://www.bsdmicrorc.com/

Dan


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

If anyone did a professional chassis around such motors, I would be very interested. As Dan alludes to, the scope for making truly awesome HO bodies would reach new levels.


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## grungerockjeepe (Jan 8, 2007)

Ok that first link is modeling madman's candy store! What would be REALLY rad is if a few of us could get together and collaborate on a chassis based on these motors, as montoya says.


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## lenny (Feb 29, 2000)

grungerockjeepe said:


> Ok that first link is modeling madman's candy store! What would be REALLY rad is if a few of us could get together and collaborate on a chassis based on these motors, as montoya says.


...as Montoya says?? What exactly did he say? 

Please show me exactly where in this thread Deanne proposed or advanced any idea for any type of chassis? All he did was 'again' glom onto a post (mine), without 'again' offering any ideas.


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

lenny said:


> ...as Montoya says?? What exactly did he say?
> 
> Please show me exactly where in this thread Deane proposed or advanced any idea for any type of chassis? All he did was 'again' glom onto a post (mine), without 'again' offering any ideas.


I have no idea what Gloming is and I (and others in this thread it would seem) had no idea that one could not post unless one advanced new ideas.

Lenny, everyone knows by now when you see me post a red mist descends, and your wonderful people skills get another airing, but I would rather focus on the discussion sans any dramatics.

I spoke to one of the HO companies about these so called 'pager' motors around the time that the RC ones started to get ever more powerful, and they were very much on their radar. The problem was, as now I guess, the chassis would have to be radically different to the norm, with all the expense that entails, with no proof there would be a big pay-off down the line.

The company was of the opinion a scratchbuilder would get there first, and if enough buzz was created from that, they would follow.


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## lenny (Feb 29, 2000)

Montoya1 said:


> I have no idea what Gloming is and I (and others in this thread it would seem) had no idea that one could not post unless one advanced new ideas.
> 
> Lenny, everyone knows by now when you see me post a red mist descends, and your wonderful people skills get another airing, but I would rather focus on the discussion sans any dramatics.
> 
> ...


Dude,

*glom on to* *:* to grab hold of *:* appropriate to oneself <_glommed on to_ her ideas>

This is something you do often, Deanne. Please do me a large favor and NEVER respond to one of my posts.

I have zero patience for you. I could care less what you think of my people skills, you piss too many people off and take credit for ideas that aren't yours. I don't care to read your crap and I really believe this board would be much better off without you. My opinion, but one that I'm sure is shared by quite a few.

Again, where in this post or ANY OTHER have you ever given any details for a chassis that uses a pager type motor in a sidewinder or anglewinder configuration.

Dan


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## grungerockjeepe (Jan 8, 2007)

Dan, give the guy a break. He just said he'd be interested in something using this configuation mass produced in a user friendly, professionally made format. What I suggested is that there are enough skilled people on here to come up with something that works, pooling of ideas and resources would yield something useful. 

That being said, i actually DO have some ideas for how to come up with a sidewidner configuration in HO. Have you ever seen a Tyco motorcycle motor outside of the chassis? Its VERY close to workable. Ill take a pic of my spare tonite and clarify what I have in mind. Something between the size of this and a pager motor would have the power and torque to handle 12-20V of power and be able to sling a slotcar around the track pretty nicely. AND would make an even better version of my fwd mini cooper...


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

Do you have to call it to get it to work?


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## grungerockjeepe (Jan 8, 2007)

slotnewbie69 said:


> couldn't you just miniaturize a 1/32 set up??iene larger gear next to the wheel,with the pinion driving it?
> a motor like that seems to be conducive to that...but that does look pretty large to fit under a car body,on second glance..


I tried that with a standard block motor, but I dont have any gears that will mesh in that setup. A standard slotcar motor using an HT-50 type configuration is simply too wide across the magnets to get a T-jet pinion and crown gear to meet up. I even tried 2 crowns for a 1:1 drive but the teeth just barely touch. It would strip out in no time, AND that was going on my FWD mini setup, which uses 440X2 power: No motor can, so its that teeny bit narrower since you're going right off the magnets. Now with the gears on that link Dan provided, maybe there is something that could work, Id just have to have a whole stash of different sizes then try to mix and match. 

I only know of one successfull attempt at an HO sidewinder--scroll down to see it:http://riggenho.com/tycopromk2.htm

A motor like that allows JUST enough room to fit in the geartrain, since its smaller overall.


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## grungerockjeepe (Jan 8, 2007)

NTxSlotCars said:


> Do you have to call it to get it to work?


haha, good one!


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## resinmonger (Mar 5, 2008)

Dan, you made some great points and provided some awesome links. Thanks for the good ideas and insight. 

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


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## slotnewbie69 (Dec 3, 2008)

yeah grunger i like the riggen style cars myself,but only have one in 1/32 and it's an inline.i can't see why no one out there has tried another sidewinder in HO.i mean,we can make something reall efficient,and as lenny posted,you could have full interiors in the cars.i have looked at the can motors in micro rc cars,but i don't think they could handle the extra voltage.if they could they would be perfect as they are teeny.maybe a brass gear from a tjet could be glued to an axle?just an idea,as alot of guys have those kicking around...


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## lenny (Feb 29, 2000)

slotnewbie69 said:


> yeah grunger i like the riggen style cars myself,but only have one in 1/32 and it's an inline.i can't see why no one out there has tried another sidewinder in HO.i mean,we can make something reall efficient,and as lenny posted,you could have full interiors in the cars.i have looked at the can motors in micro rc cars,but i don't think they could handle the extra voltage.if they could they would be perfect as they are teeny.maybe a brass gear from a tjet could be glued to an axle?just an idea,as alot of guys have those kicking around...


I've also toyed with the idea of a direct drive chassis. I think Ed Bianchi has one called the 'Rattler' which uses the Tomy open frame type square motor. I have a few dual shaft 12 volt motors made by a company called Mashima, they again are meant for the HO Railroad crowd, like Nigel Lawtons 12 V 'pager' motor. This motor is narrower than the open frame motor and would allow for very detailed HO cars with opening hoods, doors, full interiors, etc. The Mashima motors are high quality and not cheap, $10 to $15 each. I've had samples made of a small 12v dual shaft motor but I always get hung up on how to make the pickups. Should they be a slide guide with braids or heavy duty foil like the old Tycos, an adaptation of the Tomy Turbo/SRT/Super G+, or possibly something else.

Dan


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## slotcarman12078 (Oct 3, 2008)

A lot of that will depend on the weight balance. Sprung pick ups with no weight in the front could be troublesome. A full interior and motor under the hood might alleviate some of that problem though. I wish I could find that darn motor, because now I'm really interested in messing with it again... Why did I have to straighten up??? I can't find anything now!!! :lol:


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## grungerockjeepe (Jan 8, 2007)

OK some pics as promised: Newb, the reason sidewinders are nonexistent is that the common parts from most HO cars simply wont work. Here's a mockup of what the ideal sidewinder setup using existing parts might look like:









Clearly, thats not happening. Now if you take 2 of those T-jet crown gears, it JUST meshes, but thats only because its a nekkid axle with no boss right up against the block and the brush barrel actually angles it into the pinion gear:









But its a 1:1 drive, theres no advantage over a direct drive setup, only more complexity. Thats not to say that the pinon/crown setup wouldnt work, but look what you have to do to get them to mesh:








Thatd be some nasty center of gravity. I mean you could always mount it at an angle, but it still sits too high to fit under most bodies and would handle terrible.

Getting a larger spur gear on the axle would help, but the T-jet crown is the ideal size, since it will clear the track using standard size tycopro/HP wheels:


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## grungerockjeepe (Jan 8, 2007)

Now the tyco motorcycle motor I mentioned before would have some serious potential:

























Im not exactly sure how that funky one magnet with 2 flux collectors as the motor can/poles actually works, but I do know that they run pretty strong and would allow some crazy setups. Laid on its side with the magnet ahead of the arm and the axle behind it, thatd be the holy grail setup for an HO sidewinder. Trouble is, those big long brush barrels would have to go. This arm and casing but with a leaf spring brush setup like on a tomy turbo or tyco HP-7 would be just the thing to slim it down, if executed properly:


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## kiwidave (Jul 20, 2009)

Thanks for going to the trouble posting these pics! Awesome stuff. This is new to me and very interesting!


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## grungerockjeepe (Jan 8, 2007)

And Dan, direct drive cars are idiot simple to build. This is one I built about a year or 2 ago, from a curvehugger chassis with a busted rear axle cradle:
























The motor block is attached to the sawed off chassis with JB weld. the pickups are stranded copper, and the wires are attached to the endbell by drilling small holes over where the brush barrels go and inserting the stripped end of the wire held in place by pressure (the exact method I use to eliminate the copper strips on tycopro chassis, to show up in my tycopro rebuild tutorial). The stranded copper pickups arent as compliant as braids, so I glued in a tomy turbo magnet to keep the front end planted. 

If you do a direct drive, setting up a guide flag that can use braids or wipers is the way to go. A good guide flag should theoretically accept either material as the actual pickup (look on the riggenho.com website and check out the Picard guide flag, I own 2 and it is RAD). Designing it will be a LOT easier than a regular pickup ski arrangement, tooling for the actual pickup and all the little plates and electrical system will be nonexistent and replacing worn braid is VERY cost efficent. AND braids/wipers have a pretty much direct electrical connection right to the motor for the most efficient conductivity. Theyre also infinitely adjustable.


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## grungerockjeepe (Jan 8, 2007)

No prob, KD. Hopefully this inspires someone and they build a whole new chassis. OR know of a motor that will work in this application.


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## slotnewbie69 (Dec 3, 2008)

wow.thanks for all your time and effort on a very thought provoking thread,grunger.the sidewinder deal i was thinking of however was based on the small motor that slotcarman had posted.i can see why a can motor set up wouldn't work just based on the bulk of the motor itself.cool to see the tyco motorcycle motor,i had never seen one in the raw like that before.really like that direct drive car ya did too,very ingenious builds ya keep bringing us,there grunger.most appreciated,as i try to leaRN TO FLY THIS DAMN HELICOPTER I KEEP CRASHING,LOL!SLOTCARS ARE SOOOOO MUCH EASIER TO DEAL WITH THAN RC...ooooops hit the caps lock...oh well!nice info,and thanks again for helping us aging slottards to think outta da box!


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## grungerockjeepe (Jan 8, 2007)

Hey, I enjoy this stuff. To me, slots are the chance to own at least a version of the 1:1 cars Ill never own. And Ive always been the type to tear things apart, see how they work then try to make them work better or redesign entirely. As of yet, doing this on the 1:1 rides has its limits, both monetary, and my lack of a shop!


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

I didnt know Tyco made a 512.


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## Crimnick (May 28, 2006)

Anyone rememebr the hot wheels "sizzlers"?

They where direct drive...I'm looking at one right now....can motor with long shaft, with drive wheels attached to the shafts....

The can is just under 3/4" and the shaft is 1 1/8 " end to end.


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## grungerockjeepe (Jan 8, 2007)

Rich--Yup, only came in red, but there are actually 2 paint schemes. Check my thread on the fwd mini, I just recently scored a big lot of tycopros and another 512 is in it. The 512 is one that Ill prolly be selling off if you're interested.

Crim--I just got one of the Sizzler reissues from Target in. Its gonna need some re-working to turn into a direct drive slotcar, but its on my to-do list.


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

Can you post pictures of 'before' - as in what the chassis looks like now please?


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## grungerockjeepe (Jan 8, 2007)

'before' pics of which chassis, Montoya?


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

The Sizzler, what it looks like before you make it DiD for slots.


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## grungerockjeepe (Jan 8, 2007)

Ah...well thats gonna be a bit of a problemo. Ive already gutted it! But I have a couple JL sizzlers on their way and theyre laid out the same so Ill post pics of on of those once I get em...


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

Thats OK, cool to know you have made a start.

I always thought it a shame nobody took the Cullen chassis to its logical conclusion, a full production version. I love my DD cars now we use brakes over here, will blow a G-Jet into the weeds for speed and funs.


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## grungerockjeepe (Jan 8, 2007)

I read up on the Cullen chassis somewhere. Same place I heard about the Rattler, Im sure. DD definitely has its advantages: the entire drivetrain is one compact piece with no gearing so if you can attach it flush and straight, then youre in business.


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

Red Mist!

Sounds like an awesome name for a super lightweight, pager motored, angle winder chassis with BRAIDS...

ixnay on the oilsfay Dan!

I cant think of one reason to use foils... is their an advantage?


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## grungerockjeepe (Jan 8, 2007)

wipers (foils) have the same advantage as braids, as in they hinge from the front for a more natural gliding motion over the rails and when tuned in right wont lift the front of your car out of the slot. But on HO track, they have the advantage of not fraying over the narrow track rails, or requiring quite as much adjustment as braids. Its a matter of preference, I think either is a good way to go. Much better than hinged skis anyday. Now if someone could find a way to make the folded over part of a wiper nice and thin, but the contact patch thick to make it wear longer....


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