# Metal Jupiter 2



## bigetone7 (Sep 5, 2009)

I,m a sci-fi model collector from the 60's. So all news is good news. Any new updates on the metal J2, It,s long overdue. Would Moebius, Round2 or someone else be interested in a re-issue of the Aurora Sealab III ?


----------



## Opus Penguin (Apr 19, 2004)

Metal J2 is supposed to be out anytime now. As for the Aurora Sealab III, I would post that in the sticky at the top of this forum called "Moebius Wish List/Suggestions". It is the place to post your wish for future Moebius models.


----------



## dbrussee (Aug 22, 2008)

*Any Updates at Wonderfest*

Any news from Frank at Wonderfest about timing of the metal J2? Seems like this should be on the boat soon, but I'd expect some new photos or news prior to shipment so maybe more work is still being done? I'm sure the results will be worth the wait!


----------



## mike_sandiego (Jul 20, 2011)

*Metal Jupiter 2 Release Date from Moebius*

I emailed Moebius Models directly regarding the release date for the prefinished Metal Jupiter 2 Model.

They did not mention a specific date, but did tell me that it would hopefully be the fourth quarter of 2011. I am attending Comic Con so maybe I get get more info there, but it looks like we still have a wait...


----------



## etwd (Apr 21, 2010)

sounds like the 'ole' Icons bait and switch routine to me.

They have my money now and it's been well over a year now with the same line as Icons, 'next quarter' LOL!!!


----------



## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

Is anyone on Facebook with Moebius? If you were you would have seen the photo update of the metal Jupiter 2 and the packaging it will be in. Frank states, on June 10, "With a minor change or two, there should be leaving the factory soon!". Then, on June 22, he posted, " Jim, it'll be here soon. 4-6 weeks, we had some minor fixes to make but it is done finally!"I would suggest that, before ANYONE starts accusing Frank of underhanded dealings, you go to the source, Moebius, and get the truth. You will not find it here, with blind speculation!


----------



## Sonett (Jul 21, 2003)

I must concur with RSN regarding Moebius' reputation. Unlike Icons, Moebius has been around a few years now and have a proven track record of delivering on everything they have promised. Rest assured that they are definitely not in the "bait and switch" business.


----------



## Ductapeforever (Mar 6, 2008)

There are quite a few people here who enjoy bashing the model companies just to be bashing them. Their uninformed opinions are made out of ignorance of business practices and inadequate knowledge of how the hobby industry works, but yet they demand to be kept informed of product information,.... yeah when pigs fly. Moebius is nothing if not ethical and fair in their business practices. I bet the guys screaming the loudest won't even buy one of these at nearly a Grand a pop.


----------



## Dave P (Jan 5, 2005)

etwd said:


> sounds like the 'ole' Icons bait and switch routine to me.
> 
> They have my money now and it's been well over a year now with the same line as Icons, 'next quarter' LOL!!!



Troll much?


----------



## liskorea317 (Mar 27, 2009)

etwd said:


> sounds like the 'ole' Icons bait and switch routine to me.
> 
> They have my money now and it's been well over a year now with the same line as Icons, 'next quarter' LOL!!!


Not Moebius. Ever. This is a first rate company and operation.
First rate products and customer service.


----------



## Paulbo (Sep 16, 2004)

I am sure that if you are terribly concerned, Moebius would be happy to refund your money and let you know when the kit is available to ship.

Also, CultTVman has *some* available for standby reservation here: http://www.culttvmanshop.com/Deluxe...ebius-Models--STANDBY-RESERVATION_p_1390.html


----------



## falcondesigns (Oct 30, 2002)

etwd said:


> sounds like the 'ole' Icons bait and switch routine to me.
> 
> They have my money now and it's been well over a year now with the same line as Icons, 'next quarter' LOL!!!


Another one who does'nt know what he's talking about..........


----------



## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

falcondesigns said:


> Another one who does'nt know what he's talking about..........


Well, yes, because it's not 'bait and switch' at all, it would be simple fraud. 

Bait and switch would be "Hey, that metal Jupiter II, that's not happening, sorry, please enjoy this flying disc toy with a Lost in Space sticker on it NO TAKE BACKIES HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH SEEEYA!"

Seriously, while I might question some things I have no doubt whatsoever that the metal JII will happen. I would pony up for it if I had that kind of money.


----------



## Ron Gross (Jan 2, 2009)

etwd said:


> sounds like the 'ole' Icons bait and switch routine to me.
> 
> They have my money now and it's been well over a year now with the same line as Icons, 'next quarter' LOL!!!


Let's set the record straight. I have seen the actual product, live and in person. I was involved in the project in a modest way. I have a professional working relationship with Frank, and know him well. THIS IS NOT A REPEAT OF THE ICONS DISASTER! Period.

Sorry to depart from my usual demeanor, but this post hit a nerve in a couple of ways. First, there was a similar post attempted over at the Yahoo LIS forum, where I have been co-moderator for many years. But since we have a policy of approving all messages in advance, that one, thankfully, never saw the light of day.

Second, The ICONS story was indeed a mess, and affected a lot of well-meaning customers - including Frank himself, from what I've been told. But there was at least one other similar situation several years earlier that cost certain individual "investors" many times what any single ICONS customer lost. The reason I can state this with such certainty is that I was one of them. For the record, I choose not to discuss this matter further, neither here nor privately, so please don't ask. But I will state that it got me fired up enough to return to my own smaller-scale project with a renewed purpose, get it done, write a related article for Scale Modeler, and eventually collaborate with another model kit company that produced the first injection molded model kit of the J2. So I guess you might say that there is some good in everything.

Here's the main point: despite several attempts, no one has ever produced a pre-finished, large-scale replica of the J2 with all the bells and whistles. Something always seems to happen. My old friend Jeff King, who pops in here from time to time, has appropriately labeled this scenario "the curse of the Jupiter 2." But Frank is the one who is about to break that curse, once and for all. Any past J2 replica "victim," either ICONS or otherwise, should always remember that fact.
Ron G.


----------



## Sonett (Jul 21, 2003)

Thank you Ron! Well said
Phil


----------



## geoffdude (Mar 31, 2009)

I haven't bought/ordered one of these, but if I had, I would also know that I would be getting one no matter how long it may be delayed. Moebius has an outstanding record for delivering on product solicited. So I (personally) would never be worried.

Be that as it may, if someone who has spent $1000 posts that he's concerned, and or worried, then he's well within measure to mention he's thinking so. I would assume many here could reply that those worries are unfounded, but to bash him for just making an analogy, that has some merit (time delay) for comparison is mean-spirited.

BTW - I can't wait to see pics of these when they do arrive. :thumbsup:

Regards,

Geoff


----------



## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

Just to keep various disasters straight in my head, was the ICONS problem a separate thing from the Unobtainium fiasco? I have a friend who got burned by Unobtainium.

And then there was the MR Enterprise, which did ship but I guess had what seemed like a 80% defect rate. MAN. 

Maybe it's just harsh reality that these things are just too complicated for mass production of a finished product!


----------



## Ron Gross (Jan 2, 2009)

geoffdude said:


> I haven't bought/ordered one of these, but if I had, I would also know that I would be getting one no matter how long it may be delayed. Moebius has an outstanding record for delivering on product solicited. So I (personally) would never be worried.
> 
> Be that as it may, if someone who has spent $1000 posts that he's concerned, and or worried, then he's well within measure to mention he's thinking so. I would assume many here could reply that those worries are unfounded, but to bash him for just making an analogy, that has some merit (time delay) for comparison is mean-spirited.
> 
> ...


In terms of direct, blatant "bashing," I would be inclined to agree with you. But not everyone did that, and I think there's a little more involved in this case.

To create an "analogy" to the ICONS disaster serves to plant a very nasty seed, which, if allowed to go unchecked, could get out of control. That's exactly why we didn't allow a similar post over at the Yahoo LIS board. Also, there is plenty of info available to the extent that this is a totally different scenario, for anyone who decides to expend the effort. Here are a few points:

1.) Frank has had the finished prototype on display at various shows. There are also prototypes at Moebius headquarters, and at the office of licensor Kevin Burns. In the case of ICONS, the prototype was never even completed.

2.) The metal J2 is based on an existing model kit that has been freely available for nearly two years.

3.) There have been multiple images of the product on line, including the actual packaging that will be used (Frank's Facebook page).

4.) The product is coming from a company who has a known track record of delivery and integrity.

One last thought: has anyone really been charged anything at this point? I know that some dealers were stating that no credit cards would actually be charged until the product is ready to ship, but I acknowledge that this might not be the case with all of them.

I am aware of the reason for the delays, and without going into detail, I will say that they are very much regretted, but also genuine and unavoidable. All things considered, I thought that this had to be answered. Hopefully I did it in a fair and objective way.
Ron G.


----------



## Fernando Mureb (Nov 12, 2006)

Ron Gross said:


> One last thought: has anyone really been charged anything at this point? I know that some dealers were stating that no credit cards would actually be charged until the product is ready to ship, but I acknowledge that this might not be the case with all of them.
> Ron G.


If that does not put an end to any debate (like this one) that intends to be logical, I do not know what will.


----------



## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

Ron Gross said:


> In terms of direct, blatant "bashing," I would be inclined to agree with you. But not everyone did that, and I think there's a little more involved in this case.
> 
> To create an "analogy" to the ICONS disaster serves to plant a very nasty seed, which, if allowed to go unchecked, could get out of control. That's exactly why we didn't allow a similar post over at the Yahoo LIS board. Also, there is plenty of info available to the extent that this is a totally different scenario, for anyone who decides to expend the effort. Here are a few points:
> 
> ...


Solid, reasoned, logical, informative.

Geeze, what's wrong wit ya? 

Was, by chance, one of the problems a need to re-engineer the whole landing leg mount and brace setup? I can easily imagine the weight of the hull just SMASHING the legs up thru the deck...


----------



## geoffdude (Mar 31, 2009)

I hear ya... but bashing is bashing, by few or all... does "everyone" need to do it before making it wrong? I hope not.

Censoring posts on other forums may be the best way to keep issues like this in check (for sure), but I think that sets a standard for one-sided discourse. And why would anyone who has paid for this (charged or not) need to google search anything just to voice their concern (using an "analogy" or not.) about its delay?

To his concerns, and defense I suppose:

- Having a "prototype" at various shows does not de facto infer the product line is in full production, or that the completed state of the prototype (either) equates to the analogy being invalid. (Example: Franklin Mint showed a 1966 Barris Batmobile available for sale years ago, but they ended up having to cancel it, as they did not ensure proper rights, and production never happened.)

- Why would the metal J2 being based on the existing plastic model kit have any bearing on this product being delivered on time? Again, I know it will be delivered, but I don't see how this is an important factor.

- How does having multiple images of the prototype (aka "product") being shown online, including the proposed packaging, mean the final product is in full production? It doesn't. Even if a production "sample" is shown on Frank's Facebook page. That is a test "sample", not the final product. Again.. playing devil's advocate, this is standard procedure for many companies, and does not affirm the final product is in production... referring the original posters point of concern.

- We may know the product is coming from a company who has a known track record of delivery and integrity... but that one customer who is spending his $1000 may not... and shouldn't be "bashed" for inquiring about the similar situations.

- Being charged "now" or "later" is not the main point I would think... and I do not know either way. But... spending $1000 at the end of the day should entitle anyone to freely question anything about a product they are spending that large amount of money on... and again, NOT be taken to task for doing so. Tolerance for both sides here (not one more than the other) should be employed.

I'm sure the delays are to make the J2 the best possible. That is what needs to be conveyed only. An analogy is just that, and the person posting it is within his right to make it... and not deserving of the resulting vitriol. IMHO.

Regards,

Geoff


----------



## Ron Gross (Jan 2, 2009)

Perhaps the best way to avoid a situation like this would be for the original poster to express any concerns by merely asking polite, intelligent questions in the first place. But when one begins with something like "sounds like the 'ole' Icons bait and switch routine to me" (cut and paste verbatim), it sets a certain tone. Under such circumstances, one should not be all that surprised to find that he is answered in the same or similar vein. The "censored" post on the other forum, as you put it, was very similar in both content and expression, or it would not have been "censored" at all. All in all, an accusatory beginning tone seldom yields a positive response. Despite all of this, I did my best to reply here with objectivity and civility, and I trust that some will agree.


----------



## geoffdude (Mar 31, 2009)

Ron Gross said:


> Perhaps the best way to avoid a situation like this would be for the original poster to express any concerns by merely asking polite, intelligent questions in the first place. But when one begins with something like "sounds like the 'ole' Icons bait and switch routine to me" (cut and paste verbatim), it sets a certain tone. Under such circumstances, one should not be all that surprised to find that he is answered in the same or similar vein. The "censored" post on the other forum, as you put it, was very similar in both content and expression, or it would not have been "censored" at all. All in all, an accusatory beginning tone seldom yields a positive response. Despite all of this, I did my best to reply here with objectivity and civility, and I trust that some will agree.


You're right in this regard as well Ron, and your reply was fine (IMO, if it matters at all). I think the OPs main "meaning", or concern, though was really about being sold something that may not happen (thus the analogy) again. And as customers of Moebius who know their stellar record, we could/should do better (again IMHO) to address those concerns without being mean, right out of the gate, in response.

Regards,

Geoff


----------



## HabuHunter32 (Aug 22, 2009)

Is it any wonder that Moebius avoids this place ? One of the best sites on the net being ruined by a few...


----------



## Ron Gross (Jan 2, 2009)

A bit of an oversimplification, if I may say so. Any time you have an "open" forum, situations like this will always pop up. The internet is full of them, and when they occur, you do your best to disarm and move on. In reviewing the follow-up responses to the recent concern, there are differences of opinion, but I don't see where basic civility was breached.


----------



## etwd (Apr 21, 2010)

v


HabuHunter32 said:


> Is it any wonder that Moebius avoids this place ? One of the best sites on the net being ruined by a few...



GEEEZZZ! Just got done reading all my hate mail. Let me say this in rebuttal:

My post was to show a similarity between Icons and Moebius, in their approach to delays. Remember, Icons was a well-sorted out Company and was recognized in the Industry as the 'miniature specialist'. I have many products from Icons and have no complaints! Unfortunately, I invested in the J2 (2 ships) and (1) B9. I did get the money back from the B9, but lost the J2 money. I went over 2-full years with their delay propaganda. Again, they were the best bet money could buy.

Do you see any similarities yet? Stellar Companies; prototype looking for investment money; flawless reputation and many, many delays.

It's been over a year now, and all I get is more delays. It is a direct repeat 'Ron', no matter what Moebius's excuses may be. Don't forget, Icon's delays were legit too! At least from what Jim Ladd told me  

If Moebius does pull through, great. Then I get a beautiful metal J2 show-piece at more than a reasonable cost. If not, I'll collect my money back easily..........After all, Icons did show me how to deal with the Credit Card Companies when it comes to refunds. I'll give Icons that :thumbsup:

Again, absolutely NOTHING against Moebius, other than delays can be aggravating, but delays over 1-year tend to make me VERY nervous!


----------



## Ron Gross (Jan 2, 2009)

First, you didn't just "just get done reading all your hate mail," as you put it, as I've seen you on this thread several times. You've been mulling this over for days.

Second, to say that this is a "direct repeat" of the ICONS situation is not even close to being accurate. For one thing, Moebius does not pre-sell its products in an effort to collect "investment money." The company has simply never operated that way.

It has been suggested that we should all exercise a higher level of responsibility in our replies to comments like yours. But what about the responsibility of the original poster? You basically came in here with complete anonymity, enjoying the full benefits of that anonymity, and deliberately planted a accusatory and potentially destructive seed. Sorry, but responsibility works both ways. While I regret that some on this forum may have called you out in a somewhat crude manner, I can't say I have much sympathy. Did you ever try calling Moebius directly? If you did, was their response really so inadequate that you somehow felt compelled to post that message?

I have tried to put forth information to assure you and everyone else that this is really happening. I will add that I recently received a final PDF version of the accompanying Metal J2 information booklet from Bob Plant, and it looks beautiful. Beyond that, I don't see that there is much left to say. I suspect that you will be a happy customer soon.
Ron G.


----------



## etwd (Apr 21, 2010)

Ron Gross said:


> First, you didn't just "just get done reading all your hate mail," as you put it, as I've seen you on this thread several times. You've been mulling this over for days.
> 
> Second, to say that this is a "direct repeat" of the ICONS situation is not even close to being accurate. For one thing, Moebius does not pre-sell its products in an effort to collect "investment money." The company has simply never operated that way.
> 
> ...




Mail Ronee, Mail. When I logged in this morning, I was prompted that I had mail. Wow, that's something new.:wave:

By the way, who died and left you the "Moebius god"?

Facts are facts, no matter how you try to distort them. Please take a break and count to 10 Ron.

Again, I have NOTHING against Moebius and was not trying to start a war with the "Moebius god". I was only stating a cold hard fact.


----------



## Paulbo (Sep 16, 2004)

I'm not sure what "facts" you are referring to. Noone I know who has preordered the J2 directly from Moebius has yet had their credit card charged. 

So you are out no money *yet* and can't complain that "They have my money now and it's been well over a year now". Have you reconciled your credit card in the last year?


----------



## etwd (Apr 21, 2010)

And another similarity Ron!

Just like your PDF file Ron, beautiful as it may be,
I received the 'official BLUE PRINTS" of both the exterior and interior of Icon's J2(and I might add, YES, they looked beautiful too). PDF file or not, it means nothing to me, just as the BLUE PRINTS meant nothing to me then.

Paulbo, my Visa has not been charged yet - to answer your question. Visa has issued an authorization number though............

No more bickering guys, it will not get any of us anywhere fast. I just wanted to say that I respect everybody's opinion and ask that you respect mine.


----------



## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

My suggestion is to learn from your first mistake and not put up this kind of money on a product that is not done and ready to be purchased. This may prevent you from being the first on the block to have one, but this will help you from transferring your anger on making a bad consumer choice onto another company that does not deserve the false accusations or comparisons. Just my opinion on your post on a public forum.


----------



## Ductapeforever (Mar 6, 2008)

This entire thread is so insulting , I have no words to express my outrage. Frank and Dave and all the good folks at Moebius are first rate and as honest as the day is long.


----------



## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

Ductapeforever said:


> This entire thread is so insulting , I have no words to express my outrage. Frank and Dave and all the good folks at Moebius are first rate and as honest as the day is long.


Agreed!:thumbsup:


----------



## Ductapeforever (Mar 6, 2008)

No member here , includeing Ron deserves any personal attacks either.


----------



## g_xii (Mar 20, 2002)

OK -- the simple thing to do in an instance like that is REPORT THE OFFENDER TO THE MODERATOR! You guys are just fanning the fire! Thankfully, Herb called and told me about this thread as I had not been on hobbytalk today.

A reminder: This will NOT be tolerated -- anyone who has a problem with a manufacturer should take the problem directly to said manufacturer. Anyone who does not do this will be banned. No warnings, no second chances. Please just report offending behavior -- don't encourage it!

This thread is now locked. Go back to whatever it was you were doing...

--Henry


----------

