# Round 2 Models: Wonderfest 2015 survey



## edge10 (Oct 19, 2013)

Cast your votes:

http://www.collectormodel.com/round2-models/2314-round-2-models-wonderfest-2015-survey/


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

Polls.

Hmmmmmmmm . . .


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## spock62 (Aug 13, 2003)

Cast my votes, except for the goofy figure. Wouldn't want that if it were free!


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

spock62 said:


> Cast my votes, except for the goofy figure. Wouldn't want that if it were free!


You don't vote for the goofy figure- they want you to suggest a name for him...


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## scooke123 (Apr 11, 2008)

Yea they are looking for a name- from what I understand its going to be released along with another figure from Lindberg.


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## spock62 (Aug 13, 2003)

Yes, I understood that they were asking for a name. I didn't offer one since I have zero interest in the kit and wouldn't buy it.


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## Opus Penguin (Apr 19, 2004)

Mine are cast!


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## ViperRecon (Aug 3, 2010)

My suggestion for the name of the goofy figure was "cancelled."

Mark in Okinawa


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## RMC (Aug 11, 2004)

what happened to the 1/350 RELIANT ?..............hmmmm
maybe RELIANT is the new star trek MYSTERY KIT ?...........hmmmm


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## irishtrek (Sep 17, 2005)

even though I too have no interest in a kit of the figure I went ahead and submitted and idea anyway, red neck scare crow.


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## Proper2 (Dec 8, 2010)

My only interest is the NCC-1701/7, not on any of those lists.


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

Jamie said:


> 3) What length is the K’t’inga (choose one)
> 
> A) 214m
> 
> B) 349m


There are times when I realize that numbers don't actually register in people's heads when it comes to size. Beyond the fact that there is no reason to think that the K’t’inga class was 349 meters long, that pushes the 1/537th scale kit to somewhere between 1/850th and 1/875th scale. But seeing as they are considering a 1/350th scale kit, lets compare it to the Refit and TOS Enterprise models in relative sizes...








At 349 meters, we're looking at a model over 39 inches long that dwarfs the 1/350 Refit Enterprise.

I'm guessing that Jamie didn't look at the 1/537 kit or do a relative size comparison before throwing that question in the mix.


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

Both Klingon ships look out of size compared to the diagrams I remember from the TOS 'Making of Star Trek' book - what they showed I think would be almost between those two options.


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

That is a good point, lets just drop that TMoST comparison graphic (scaled to the TOS Enterprise) on top of the existing one...








Which also gives us a size reference for a 1/350 TOS Klingon battle cruiser.


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## edge10 (Oct 19, 2013)

214 Meters puts a 1/350 kit right at 24". 

According to StarshipModeler the Refit is 34".


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## Opus Penguin (Apr 19, 2004)

Shaw said:


> There are times when I realize that numbers don't actually register in people's heads when it comes to size. Beyond the fact that there is no reason to think that the K’t’inga class was 349 meters long, that pushes the 1/537th scale kit to somewhere between 1/850th and 1/875th scale. But seeing as they are considering a 1/350th scale kit, lets compare it to the Refit and TOS Enterprise models in relative sizes...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The 214m (and the figure I voted for) I believe is more accurate. IIRC the D7 is actually larger than the K'Tinga and the K'Tinga was always smaller than the Refit. The larger scale is way to big in my opinion.


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

I have a hard time believing the D7 is supposed to be bigger than the K'Tinga.


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## StarCruiser (Sep 28, 1999)

First idea to get out of your head is that the K'Tinga is a "refit" of the D7 - it's not. It's a different ship built on the same style as the D7.

Second, the Klingon ships are pure warships, little crew comfort and little in the way of science equipment. They can be smaller and still be a serious threat...


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## ClubTepes (Jul 31, 2002)

SUNGOD said:


> I have a hard time believing the D7 is supposed to be bigger than the K'Tinga.


No its true.

A D-7 is 223 or 226 (I forget) meters long.

From day 1, the K'tinga has always been 214 meters long (as depicted in the TMP blueprints).

I'm curious where this larger (349m) number came from and why.

I agree with Shaw, that a lot of people just can't visualize what the numbers mean in terms of relative size.

Shaw, I hope you posted this on the Collector model forum, so that everyone can see it?

Richard, I think your perception of the sizes being too-big/too-small comes from Shaw's position of the K'Tinga (which is smaller than the D-7) next to the silhouette of the refit (which is bigger than the TOS).


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## edge10 (Oct 19, 2013)

Here is where I think he got the larger number:

http://en.memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/K't'inga_class

The site above quotes the 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Technical Manual', as the source for the dimensions.


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## Bwain no more (May 18, 2005)

When Next Gen and DS9 were in production it was common practice to utilize (and occasionally repurpose with new paint and added details) existing models used in the movies. Along with this came resizing the ships in the frame so they would not be dwarfed by the Enterprise D (not much different than the shuttlecraft appearing the same size as the Constellation relative to the planet killer in the TOS episode "The Doomsday Machine" or going back even further, King Kong being eighteen feet tall while on Skull Island and twenty four feet tall while rampaging through Manhattan.)
Tom


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

ClubTepes said:


> Shaw, I hope you posted this on the Collector model forum, so that everyone can see it?


Honestly... I don't want to stop them from voting for the larger size. If people are willing to fund a model kit that'll be 39" long and about 28" wide, why stop them? It should look great next to a DeBoer's Enterprise (though slightly larger in scale to even that model).

I'm just curious how this will play out. This will be a monster model at what is being proposed, who cares what the actual size/scale really was! :thumbsup:



And yeah, the DS9 manual was what made me stop buying those books. Drexler had no sense of scale back then an threw stuff together based on _if it looked good_ (he was a makeup guy after all). He seems better at this type of thing today, but if Round 2 builds us a 39"x28" Klingon model because of him, I will be thanking him for those past short comings!


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

StarCruiser said:


> First idea to get out of your head is that the K'Tinga is a "refit" of the D7 - it's not. It's a different ship built on the same style as the D7.
> 
> Second, the Klingon ships are pure warships, little crew comfort and little in the way of science equipment. They can be smaller and still be a serious threat...




The K'Tinga certainly gives the appearance of being much bigger.


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

ClubTepes said:


> No its true.
> 
> A D-7 is 223 or 226 (I forget) meters long.
> 
> ...





But where did the D7 first get mentioned as being 220 odd metres long?


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## BWolfe (Sep 24, 2013)

SUNGOD said:


> But where did the D7 first get mentioned as being 220 odd metres long?


I have a set of blueprints from 1975 that show the length as being 216 meters.


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

BWolfe said:


> I have a set of blueprints from 1975 that show the length as being 216 meters.




So that makes it virtually the size of the K'Tinga (if it's 214 of course).


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## edge10 (Oct 19, 2013)

Here is Jamie's answer as to why the larger size was possible:

JamieH says:	
July 7, 2015 at 9:44 am	

Deck height. I can’t recall the site(s) but when double checking the accepted length (I always have to corroborate any published lengths for my own piece of mind) I found a few sources using 349m. IIRC, they were allotting for 3m deck heights and referencing the windows in the front bulb and also the narrowest part of the neck. I believe they were calculating the deck height at 214m to be in the neighborhood of 2m which would be too short for a Klingon.


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

Or, you could split the difference and have a 2.5m deck height. This would result in a model that is 31-2/3" long. With a full-scale length of 281.5m, or just over 923'.


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## Hunk A Junk (Jan 28, 2013)

I'm in the minority, I know, but all I care about is that the K'tinga's scale makes it plausible that the bridge seen in ST:TMP can fit inside. Figure out the size of the interior set relative to the size of the Enterprise bridge, scale to match the 1:350 Enterprise. Viola. Scale. :thumbsup:

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net...ision/latest?cb=20110831133242&path-prefix=en


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

SUNGOD said:


> The K'Tinga certainly gives the appearance of being much bigger.




That's the impression I got as a wide-eyed 14 year old in 1979.


But then again I was seeing it on a 60 foot wide movie screen,


which I doubt they even make anymore . . . 


as opposed to reruns of TOS on my parent's 28" Zenith console TV.


So it's not hard to realize why the K'Tinga might _*seem*_ larger then the D-7, as most of us saw TOS for decades just on relatively small TV's at home - with the original special effects that used a 28" long D-7 miniature.


Oddly, the CGI effects were so bad on the remastered TOS series that the D-7 doesn't look much more impressive then it did using the original f/x.


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

Chuck_P.R. said:


> That's the impression I got as a wide-eyed 14 year old in 1979.
> 
> 
> But then again I was seeing it on a 60 foot wide movie screen,
> ...




Well no matter what size it is if we ever get one from R2 I hope there's bags of detail as the existing kits don't do it justice at all (even though the Aztec pattern is nice on the old AMT kit) Although they couldn't replicate all of the detail as the effects guys obviously made a separate model of the bridge.......that shot at the beginning of STTMP of the side of the bridge shows how inadeqate the existing kits are when it comes to detail on the K'Tinga.


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## Landru (May 25, 2009)

Well the Klingon bridge set from TMP is essentially the refit torpedo bay set.


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

Landru said:


> Well the Klingon bridge set from TMP is essentially the refit torpedo bay set.


Pieces of it also appear in Engineering- my problem is that those pieces stand out a lot since they were designed with a different aesthetic than 'Starfleet standard'.


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## Paulbo (Sep 16, 2004)

SUNGOD said:


> ...that shot at the beginning of STTMP of the side of the bridge shows how inadeqate the existing kits are when it comes to detail on the K'Tinga.


The kit was done based on the Phase II battle cruiser, before the detailing was upgraded for TMP.


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## oggy4u (Sep 27, 2007)

I read the K'tinga from ST:TMP was built from scratch by a company called Apogee . (The K'tinga designer ,Andrew Probert and the Apogee staff did not like each other at all ) .When the special effects department received the model they found the internal lighting was inadequate and when they did a screen test they decided the model needed more detail for large theatre screens .There are lots of photos of the Klingon ship floating around before the detail was added . I think the Matchbox model company got a hold of the hero model before all the greebles were added to the forward hull . Not that it mattered because they did a poor job on the kit .


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## robn1 (Nov 17, 2012)

The K't'inga model was built by Magicam, but Apogee did add extra detailing. And there was no larger bridge section, they just shot a close up of the ship's head.


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