# Dumb question about FRAY cars



## Shadowracer (Sep 11, 2004)

Ok guys I'm not a FRAY type racer, don't know any personally and don't aspire to be one, so I come by my ignorance honestly 

When I look at some websites that sell bodies for that type of racing, and the wheels are sticking out like 5 miles on each side. How much wider than stock are those tires sticking out? I have no reference point for what the difference is.

I'm curious because I've come across a few bodies on a few websites that I would like for an actual "realistic" tjet version of a car, but they're only pictured as FRAY cars. Is it a fairly safe bet that stock skinny tires on a stock axle will have the tires sitting under the fenders where they are supposed to if it was trying to look like an actual car?

Or is each body a special case scenario?


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## Dragula (Jun 27, 2003)

I believe 1 5/16's is the tech block width.


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## kriket (Feb 15, 2013)

i dont see why you could'nt put the wheels inside the wheel wells to make it look more realistic, the fray cars have longer axles in them like drill blanks used as axles to get them out to 1 5/16" so they handle better.


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## Serge (Jan 4, 2014)

*1- 5/16"...*

is the rule; that's why RTHO makes the tech block for that dimension. As far as the body rules go; any (approved) body is legal. See the "Fray at Ferndale" web site. What works well is another matter. Ebay sellers like to throw around the word "Fray" to attract the neophyte.

To answer what I think you were asking. Yes!, the small bodies with the tires that stick out work best. 

There are a lot of guys on this site that are more qualified to answer than me.

S


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## super8man (Jan 29, 2013)

This should help you figure it out:


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## Serge (Jan 4, 2014)

*Fray 2014*

My yellow/red Lambo, front row, far left.

Nice picture!


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## old blue (May 4, 2007)

Fray cars are set up strictly for racing. The ones I have seen are amazingly fast. They could not go around the corners at the speed they do if they had the traditional wheels on them. I had the same reaction as you when I saw them because I am not a racer either. The front wheels are both spread out wide and carry more weight than stock wheels. I always wanted to incorporate some of this technology into a traditional wheel just to keep my cars in the slot better.

Old Blue


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## asennafan (Jan 19, 2013)

I think the original question is can he mount a Fray type body on a T-Jet chassis with normal width axles so it doesn't look so ridiculous. I don't know the answer but I don't see why you couldn't.


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## Serge (Jan 4, 2014)

*Nostalgia cars*

Nostalgia cars have a more realistic look, using the "Fray" style body.
There are a few manufacturers of the Nostalgia front ends which have the same attributes as the Fray front ends only narrower. These are fun and fast as well!


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## Shadowracer (Sep 11, 2004)

asennafan said:


> I think the original question is can he mount a Fray type body on a T-Jet chassis with normal width axles so it doesn't look so ridiculous.


Yes that was exactly the question. 

However I think its been answered. If those competition cars are 1 5/16 wide at the axle, I can sorta figure it out.


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## Bubba 123 (Sep 10, 2010)

Shadowracer said:


> I'm curious because I've come across a few bodies on a few websites that I would like for an actual "realistic" tjet version of a car, but they're only pictured as FRAY cars. Is it a fairly safe bet that stock skinny tires on a stock axle will have the tires sitting under the fenders where they are supposed to if it was trying to look like an actual car?
> 
> Or is each body a special case scenario?


you should be able to set up FRAY bodies with standard skinny, T-Jet chassis..
you "MAY" have 2 scrape away some inner front wheel-well plastic on the top,
4 best results..

Bubba 123 :wave::thumbsup:


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## rholmesr (Oct 8, 2010)

The fray bodies actually look pretty cool when mounted on a 'skinny' tire car. The only issue I have encountered is on some bodies you may have to grind out the front wheel wells a little bit to get your tires to clear - or push the wheels inward a bit to be well inside the wheel wells.

O yeah - I love that fray field pic. The car I drove is the blue "STL" corvette in the front row. The winning car was the orange 'tiger' car in the front row just above the letter "A" that I loaned to Chad T.


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## Rich Dumas (Sep 3, 2008)

Here is a Nostalgia car with an Aurora Ferrari Dino body.


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## Shadowracer (Sep 11, 2004)

Ok so another dumb question. And truthfully im not being "judgy", im just trying to wrap my head around it. Whats the deal with putting fender-car bodies on what is essentially an open wheeled car? Are there not open wheel style bodies made for these things? 

I mean I get it that the FRAY look is part of the deal and that modelling for realism isn't high on the priority list. I just wonder where it comes from. Some of those cars'd look so awesome with an indycar, F1 or open wheel modified type body. How come no one seems to do that?


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## Rich Dumas (Sep 3, 2008)

For the most part you can't put a scale open wheel body on a regular T-Jet chassis and have it look right. Either the body will have to be too fat or sit too high. The top plate and gears make the chassis too high. The best solution if you are stuck with regular T-Jets is to use longer axles with bigger wheels and tires so the body can be out of scale, but the overall car looks fairly good.










Aurora did make a Slimline car that had a more compact chassis just for open wheel cars.


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## super8man (Jan 29, 2013)

Shadowracer said:


> Ok so another dumb question. And truthfully im not being "judgy", im just trying to wrap my head around it. Whats the deal with putting fender-car bodies on what is essentially an open wheeled car? Are there not open wheel style bodies made for these things?
> 
> I mean I get it that the FRAY look is part of the deal and that modelling for realism isn't high on the priority list. I just wonder where it comes from. Some of those cars'd look so awesome with an indycar, F1 or open wheel modified type body. How come no one seems to do that?


I believe the rules state the body must have a windshield - I may be wrong. I simply follow the tried and true methods to build a car to perhaps be somewhat competitive - LOL...visit the fray website and read the rules...they are not too involved. You are sort of asking why the car evolved to the way it is now...it's a process. A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away.


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## LDThomas (Nov 30, 1999)

Most Fray bodies will not fit on a standard chassis. The front tires on the standard chassis are too big!


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## Bubba 123 (Sep 10, 2010)

Rich Dumas said:


> Here is a Nostalgia car with an Aurora Ferrari Dino body.


hey Rich,
that body is awesomely detailed :thumbsup:

Bubba :wave:


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## kriket (Feb 15, 2013)

if the front tires on a stock t jet chassis are too big to fit a fray body they can be sanded down to a smaller diameter or purchase smaller diameter tires that will fit a stock tjet wheel...


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## LDThomas (Nov 30, 1999)

Fray bodies do not have stock T-Jet wheel openings. If the tire is cut down enough to clear the wheel well, it will not touch the track.


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## oldraceral (Dec 1, 2005)

There is a Fray rule stating max body width is 1.200 inches. Our club will sometimes run a NASCAR Fray class with bodies 1 5/16 wide, loosely based on the Lifelike NASCAR bodies. It's a fun class with a lot of fender rubbing. With regular open wheel Fray cars if 2 cars touch tires, one car loses. Followed by a cry of 'Foul' and a quiet smirk. It's fun.


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## rholmesr (Oct 8, 2010)

LDThomas said:


> Fray bodies do not have stock T-Jet wheel openings. If the tire is cut down enough to clear the wheel well, it will not touch the track.


While this is true more often than not, it is not always the case. For example, Greg's Garage C5 Vette will fit okay on a skinny tire car without having to open the wheel wells. Fronts on my car are about .325" OD. (Sorry for rough picture - my cell phone camera is not good.)


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## Dragula (Jun 27, 2003)

oldraceral said:


> There is a Fray rule stating max body width is 1.200 inches. Our club will sometimes run a NASCAR Fray class with bodies 1 5/16 wide, loosely based on the Lifelike NASCAR bodies. It's a fun class with a lot of fender rubbing. With regular open wheel Fray cars if 2 cars touch tires, one car loses. Followed by a cry of 'Foul' and a quiet smirk. It's fun.


We ran that same setup a long time ago,it was a blast.We called them "pro-tjets"
Christian


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## oldraceral (Dec 1, 2005)

rholmesr, that looks good. I'd never thought of using a Fray body on a stock chassis. I'm going to do that for the next running of our stock class and see what they say. Wailing and gnashing of teeth, I'm sure. LOL. Dragula, I see you are an 'Elder Statesman'. My granddaughter told me this summer that I'm not old, I'm 'elderly'. May have to change my nickname.


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## Boosted-Z71 (Nov 26, 2007)

We did the nascar type bodies on Fray type builds for the local kids using JL stuff, its good racing and the wheels are covered, they look cool, I did have pics on here somewhere in a thread

Boosted


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## 60chevyjim (Feb 21, 2008)

I think fray style vintage stockcar races would be cool.


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## Rich Dumas (Sep 3, 2008)

Before we switched over to using G-Jet type chassis we used to run T-Jet SS cars with modern NASCAR bodies by Lifelike, Tyco and Tomy as well as similar resin bodies. The bodies were too wide to fit through a standard tech gauge, so we only teched the bare chassis.


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## Serge (Jan 4, 2014)

*Awesome*

I'm building a set of six myself. I'm waiting for the Interstate Battery (green) and the United Parcel Service (white) bodies I bought on line. I'm putting them on Dash chassis/armature cars, set up as Super Stocks.

Some day I'd like to do an early sixties set with Mev bodies.
That's #985 on the list! LOL


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## purple66bu (Dec 18, 2013)

Rich Dumas said:


> Here is a Nostalgia car with an Aurora Ferrari Dino body.


Richard those limiting bends on the shoes are a work of art...mine just bend all over


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## brownie374 (Nov 21, 2007)

I would love to see a pictorial of your technique I either bend em too much or not enough!


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## smalltime (Jun 3, 2006)

brownie374 said:


> I would love to see a pictorial of your technique I either bend em too much or not enough!


You need one of these:
http://www.scaleengineering.com/Product Pages/TGT3.htm


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## brownie374 (Nov 21, 2007)

I had one did better with pliers


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## Rich Dumas (Sep 3, 2008)

The trouble with a bend like the one in the picture is that you can't fine tune the shoes for different rail heights. Those were stock Aurora shoes, if you were to use Slottech shoes the windows would be close to optimum. With shoes like that all you need is a 90 degree forward bend. You can change the angle a little to fine tune for different rail heights.
I would have liked to lower that Ferrari body a little more, the rules did not allow for trimming of the gear plate rails.


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## Gerome (Sep 25, 2011)

smalltime said:


> You need one of these:
> http://www.scaleengineering.com/Product Pages/TGT3.htm


Could you explain this adjustment?


Loosen front Screws and use a Drill Blank or a Drill bit to set the Anvil to Your Preferred Height


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## super8man (Jan 29, 2013)

The drill blank ensures the ledge is parallel for when you bend the top of the shoe. Without using a drill blank, there's a chance the angle will be slightly off and you will get a crooked bend.


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## Gerome (Sep 25, 2011)

Thanks. I have one but have not used the drill blank.


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## Binoomaul (Nov 26, 2021)

Serge said:


> *1- 5/16"...*
> 
> is the rule; that's why RTHO makes the tech block for that dimension. As far as the body rules go; any (approved) body is legal. See the "Fray at Ferndale" web site. What works well is another matter. Ebay sellers like to throw around the word "Fray" to attract the neophyte.
> 
> ...


Speaking about tires, I was wondering what would happen if I took away the front tires and kept the back ones...
This may be a stupid question


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## Rich Dumas (Sep 3, 2008)

It is not clear to me what you are asking here. Do you expect to run a car without front tires?


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## Milton Fox Racing (May 27, 2014)

I do think that is what he is asking. The last time I was at a slot car event, the house cars only had rear wheels and the front pin. The seemed to track well and I am sure the track owners regulated overall speeds for the novice group I was in that was having a track day event there. My question would be to remove just the tires or the wheel hubs as well. Should they be made to be more aerodynamic with closed fender wells also?

It seems to me the front wheels only increase drag overall and since they neither turn or provide any tracative force they would be essentially expendable.


DSCN7245 by Milton Fox, on Flickr


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## Rich Dumas (Sep 3, 2008)

Higher end commercial raceway 1/24th scale cars have front wheels that do not touch the track or have no front wheels at all. For club style 1/32 racing cars with traction magnets are required to have front wheels, but the tires do not have to touch the track. Without traction magnets you would want the front tires to touch and roll at all times. All of the rules that I have seen for either 1/32nd or HO racing have required front wheels and tires, in the case of HO cars the tires must always touch.
For more casual use a person could try whatever he wants. Running without front wheels would probably result in the guide pin dragging in the bottom of the slot, so that would have to be trimmed. In addition the bottom of the chassis would be likely to drag on the rails causing the motor to overheat. The pickup shoes would be fully depressed which could cause erratic handling and excessive wear.


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