# Question about the USS Constellation from the Doomsday Machine



## Guy Schlicter (May 3, 2004)

Hi,I have 2 questions in the original series episode,The Doomsday Machine,Was the Constellation so far gone were it couldn't have been restored to as it was prior to the events in The Doomsday Machine had Kirk not destroyed it.Also in Star Trek Generations had the Enterprise D saucer section survived do people think that starfleet would have just given them another stardrve section and then there would be no Enterprise E.Also too bad in First Contact they could have done a story where the E is shown launched with Captain Picard taking her out of spacedock,Thanks,Guy Schlicter.


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## Lloyd Collins (Sep 25, 2004)

I believe the Constellation could have been restored, since most of the ship was intact.


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## Nova Designs (Oct 10, 2000)

Its hard to say, the interior didn't look too bad, but both warp nacelles were completely trashed.

The real issue was not whether it could be salvaged. After all the Enterprise did take it in tow. The Doomsday Machine kind of settled the matter by making it necessary to sacrifice the Constellation in order to save the Enterprise. I like to think that if that hadn't happened the Constellation might have been salvaged.

I don't think its the same situation with the Enterprise D. There had to have been a lot more damage to the underside of the Saucer section that we couldnt see as a result of the crash landing. And then there's the effort in getting that severely damaged section back into orbit on a planet with no facilities whatsoever. No, it was probably more practical to abandon the D to her fate.


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## Nighthawk (Oct 13, 2004)

With respect to the abandonment of the Enterprise-D saucer to its fate, I highly recommend that you all check out the first... ten or so chapters of William Shatner's book "The Return." It begins a month after Generations and deals with the salvage of the Enterprise-D saucer; not restoration for later use, mind you, but carving up for scrap. I believe the damage to the Enterprise-D saucer--both internal and external--would have left very little worth salvaging for restoration beyond the topside external hull and the saucer's frame itself. With the stardrive section destroyed and the inside of the ship ripped apart, I can see why Starfleet would abandon the ship. As for the Constellation, one most remember that there were only twelve Constitution-class starships in service according to TOS, and at least during the 2200's. After the Enterprise-class program began (refitting the ships into the glorious version that we were blessed with first in The Motion Picture and the subsequent five movies), it's likely more were built and commissioned for service, but with the advent of the Excelsior Program, the Constitution Program no longer became viable. But I digress. The Constellation was likely so badly damaged that it would have taken Starfleet ages to refit the vessel and bring it back into good working order. But, I could be horribly wrong; anything's possible.


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## scotpens (Sep 6, 2003)

I agree with Nighthawk and Nova Designs. With the massive interior structural damage to the Enterprise-D saucer, I'd say the thing was pretty well trashed. Landing the separated saucer section on a planet's surface must have been intended as a last-resort emergency measure, with the foregone conclusion that the ship would be a total loss. And remember, all large starships are assembled in orbit. Even if the saucer could have been repaired, how would they get the gargantuan craft back into space in one piece? More likely it was sold for scrap -- probably to the Japanese.


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## razorwyre1 (Jan 28, 2004)

guy aout the maiden voyage of the e, think they made the right choice in cutting to the chase. the movie would have stopped in its tracks to say "heres the new ship! ta-da!!!" 

they had to do that in tmp, first to explain why the ship looks so much different, and to set ou the plot thread of kirk vs. decker. i should point out that to many non-trekkers, the spacedock sequence of tmp is excruciating.


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## Tholian (Oct 3, 2004)

The Constellation would have probably been refitted with new Warp Nacelles, and a New Bridge. As for the exterior hull shots, there were only a few rips and tears. Most of it was burn marks. So it is well likely that it could have been salvaged. One thing that Nighthawk said was that they may have abandoned the Constitution Refit after the Excelsior Class was built. That may not be true. There are cases in history that when another class ship is built, they do continue with the older kind with minor updates. And the Excelsior may have been a different type ship altogether having certain characteristics that the Constitution class may not have had, and visa-versa. So I think they kept making the Constitution classes well after the Excelsior. At least in my opinion. LOL :jest: 
The “D” was a total loss for sure. Just the structure taking the impact would have been too much to even try to salvage. So they probably Scrapped it and removed systems that may have been able to be used as back ups for other Galaxy Class ships


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## justinleighty (Jan 13, 2003)

The Constellation could've been repaired; replace the nacelles and bridge and patch up the other damage and it could go out again.

I think Guy was asking a question along the lines of "What if the saucer never crashed and stayed in orbit, would it have gotten another stardrive section?" It's possible, though that would seem kind of odd.

With the "E," when we first saw it in First Contact, it had been out in space for a year already. Plus, if it had started out on Earth at the beginning of the movie, it's very difficult to see starfleet sending it away with a Borg cube headed for the planet, so the idea of a spacedock sequence with the E just wasn't feasible within the constraints of the story.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Starship nacelles were probably plug-and-play, so I expect the Constellation could have been rebuilt. It's been done before - look up the carrier USS Franklin in WWII.

As for the D's saucer - I doubt even Starfleet has anything powerful enough to lift anything that huge and massively heavy, intact, back into orbit.


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## Nighthawk (Oct 13, 2004)

Tractor beam. Remember the sequence from Jouret IV in "Best of Both Worlds, pt 1." This just came back to me, but that crater was said to be scooped out by a tractor beam if I remember correctly. A couple of starships (Excelsior-class or better, probably three ships for maximum beam strength) could have easily lifted it from Veridian Three. Also remember sequences from that episode and part 2 when the cube is attacking the Enterprise and locks its tractor beam on the saucer prior to engaging the cutting beam. The beam width was enough to cover most of the saucer section.


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## Nova Designs (Oct 10, 2000)

Yeah but that was the Borg, who's technology is far superior to the Federations. I'm not saying it couldn't be done, but its unlikely. There's also the range to consider. Standard orbit is something like 250 miles up.


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

Couldn't they just...beam it up?


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## F91 (Mar 3, 2002)

John P said:


> Starship nacelles were probably plug-and-play, so I expect the Constellation could have been rebuilt. It's been done before - look up the carrier USS Franklin in WWII.
> 
> As for the D's saucer - I doubt even Starfleet has anything powerful enough to lift anything that huge and massively heavy, intact, back into orbit.


 I hope to God Microsoft didn't make the nacelles!
My all time favorite episode! The Constellation could have been saved, but never would have died so well.


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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

Let's take a look at the Constellation:










Aside from the crispy-critter warp nacelles, the ship really doesn't look to be in particularly bad shape, especially when you consider that the design is pretty modular in arrangement. New bridge, nacelles, pylons, some systems repairs and upgrades, and about six months worth of spacedock time patching up the obvious structural damage, and she'd be back in service.

The E-D saucer section, on the other hand, is large enough that it could probably comfortably contain the Constellation, and has already been determined by her designers that, under standard Earth gravity, she would sag under her own weight if not for some serious reinforcement by the structural integrity fields.

Take that baby and bellyflop it onto the surface of a Class M planet, while skipping more than a few steps listed in the tech manual, mix in the detail that the aforementioned SIF is gonna go out at some point, and you get one very large unsalvageable structure. Even if it survived the crash landing (emphaiss on "crash"), it likely wouldn't stand the strain of being lifted up by tractor beam.

And if you had a transporter large enough to beam up the saucer section of a Galaxy class starship, well, you wouldn't need a Galaxy class starship in the first place, now would you?


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## robcomet (May 25, 2004)

Nova Designs said:


> Yeah but that was the Borg, who's technology is far superior to the Federations. I'm not saying it couldn't be done, but its unlikely. There's also the range to consider. Standard orbit is something like 250 miles up.


There is a TNG novel called Rogue Saucer. It deals with the supposed test of a prototype saucer that could land on the surface of a planet and then, with thrusters, hover into the atmosphere where it could be retrieved by the tractor beam of a Galaxy class hull section. While admittedly, it's only a novel and not true to Trek, the power rating of the tractor beam was never really established. It could be possible if the hull section entered the high atmosphere.

This has got me thinking now. Has anyone done a diorama of the D saucer crashed on Veridian III? I wonder if I have a spare saucer lying around...

Rob


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## Andrew Gorman (Jan 24, 2000)

In WWII, the carrier Benjamin Franklin was very heavily damaged, but managed to limp back to port. The Navy never really repaired her afterwards, but kept the ship around until the late fifties because it was almost new, and COULD be repaired if needed. A starship probably costs a lot more than a carrier, and would probably be worth the towing bill.
Andrew


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## JGG1701 (Nov 9, 2004)

. A starship probably costs a lot more than a carrier, and would probably be worth the towing bill.
I thought they didn't use currency in the 23rd century.


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## Nova Designs (Oct 10, 2000)

robcomet said:


> There is a TNG novel called Rogue Saucer. It deals with the supposed test of a prototype saucer that could land on the surface of a planet and then, with thrusters, hover into the atmosphere where it could be retrieved by the tractor beam of a Galaxy class hull section. While admittedly, it's only a novel and not true to Trek, the power rating of the tractor beam was never really established. It could be possible if the hull section entered the high atmosphere.
> Rob


Interesting, I didn't know about that book. I guess it just goes to show that in the Star Trek universe anything is possible.


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## scotpens (Sep 6, 2003)

JGG1701 said:


> . A starship probably costs a lot more than a carrier, and would probably be worth the towing bill.
> I thought they didn't use currency in the 23rd century.
> 
> Although they don't use CURRENCY (i.e. paper cash and coins) in the Trek universe, and contrary to Capt. Picard's line in FC ("Money doesn't exist in the 24th century"), they must still be using money in some form (even today, most financial transactions are conducted electronically). How can a civilization, let alone an interstellar federation, function economically without a medium of exchange? Have they reverted to barter?
> ...


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

My understanding is that there is a monetary system in place in the Star Trek time, which it is based on "credits". The difference, I believe, is that the "credits", as described, are not based on printed or coined currency, or "pocket change". Rather, they would use a debit system where wage and salary earners would have their earnings credited to an electronic account and would have amounts withdrawn during a purchase by being identified by a unique personal attribute or possibly some sort of imbedded chip. 

We are getting closer and closer to this system in our current monetary exchange system with debit cards used in place of cash for transactions.

Of course, what this system is based on for value, is anybody's guess. Some sort of precious mineral (like gold is now)? Dilithium, perhaps?


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## robcomet (May 25, 2004)

Trek Ace said:


> My understanding is that there is a monetary system in place in the Star Trek time, which it is based on "credits". The difference, I believe, is that the "credits", as described, are not based on printed or coined currency, or "pocket change". Rather, they would use a debit system where wage and salary earners would have their earnings credited to an electronic account and would have amounts withdrawn during a purchase by being identified by a unique personal attribute or possibly some sort of imbedded chip.
> 
> Of course, what this system is based on for value, is anybody's guess. Some sort of precious mineral (like gold is now)? Dilithium, perhaps?


The main source of currency seems to be used by the Ferengi in the TNG/DS9 universe is gold pressed latinum. It's a pearlescent liquid surrounded by a "worthless" lump of gold.

I remeber them talking about Federation credits somewhere in an episode. No idea exactly what they do though. Some sort of promissary note type thing?

Rob


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## razorwyre1 (Jan 28, 2004)

thats one of the sketchiest aeas in all of trek, and i wish that someone would define the canon on it


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## JGG1701 (Nov 9, 2004)

Well remember in Star Trek 4 where Kirk was said to ..."I suppose they don't use money in the 23rd century. Kirk replies "We don't". That just got me wondering...


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Andrew Gorman said:


> In WWII, the carrier Benjamin Franklin was very heavily damaged, but managed to limp back to port. The Navy never really repaired her afterwards, but kept the ship around until the late fifties because it was almost new, and COULD be repaired if needed.


 I was under the impression she was sent back into action, but that's wrong according to this:
http://www.hazegray.org/navhist/carriers/us_fleet.htm#cv13
But she WAS completely repaired and available for duty.


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## heiki (Aug 8, 1999)

JGG1701 said:


> Well remember in Star Trek 4 where Kirk was said to ..."I suppose they don't use money in the 23rd century. Kirk replies "We don't". That just got me wondering...


In the TOS episode "Mudd's women", Kirk offered to trade valuables for goods/services to get the ship repaired.


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## CaptFrank (Jan 29, 2005)

*U.S.S. FRANKLIN CV - 13*


> Did not resume flight operations following repairs, decommissioned to reserve 17 Feb 1947. Was in excellent condition and held in reserve for potential "ultimate" Essex class conversion.
> 
> Redesignated as an attack carrier (*CVA 13*) 1 October 1952, as an ASW carrier (*CVS 13*) 8 Aug 1953, and as an aviation transport (*AVT 8*) 5/59, all while in reserve. Stricken for disposal 1 October 1964, sold for scrapping 7/1966, scrapped at Norfolk VA 1966-1968.


They fixed her, and she sat in reserve.
They re-fit her three times, and she sat in reserve.
Then, she was scrapped!  
That's messed up!
All that time, effort, supplies, and money, *wasted*!
Why didn't the Navy use her?
Put her to sea at least once!
Training vessel, anybody?


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## terryr (Feb 11, 2001)

No way. The magnetic plasma flux hyper tri-photonic warp drive coupling was all screwed up.

Can they tow at warp speed? It's a long way back to base.


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## m5multitronic (May 27, 2005)

I'm doing a PL 1/1000 _Constellation_ right now, and, aside from the obviously-trashed warp nacelles and pylons (which, as others have stated, are probably modular & replaceable), the overall ship does not seem too terribly damaged. If you compare the primary hull to the destuction wreaked upon the _Enterprise_ -E in "Nemesis", the _Constellation_ would seem to me to be a prime candidate for a refit and relaunch.

Of course, we are never shown the underside of her primary hull; might be blasted wide open, for all we know.

To tell you the truth, I kind of wish Decker's ship had sustained more obvious visible damage. Building the wrecked stuff is fun....


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

I'll bet 100 Latinum tht they DO have some from of currency


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## Guy Schlicter (May 3, 2004)

Wow!thanks for replying to this thread and still checking it out.I posted it several months ago.Let me clarify something about the Enterprise D saucer section.I meant if the saucer section never crashed landed on Veridian III would Starfleet have just given the Enterprise D saucer section at a Starbase a new probably indentical Stardrive section and not given Captain Picard and crew an entirely new ship(the Enterprise E)at that point with the Saucer Section still intact and they could have restored to the ship to as it was before the attack in GenerationsThanks,Guy Schlicter.


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

If the spaceframe were damaged beyond a certain degree, it would not be considered cost-effective to repair it. Like with a plane that has a collapsed-gear belly landing and suffers excessive damage to the airframe, or even a car that is involved in a serious accident, someone is going to make the call that it's totalled and not worth the effort.


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## trevanian (Jan 30, 2004)

I have a hard time seeing why they didn't write off the -E after it bumped bows with the Scimitar in NEM. You'd figure it must have been bent up a bit in addition to all the smashed up parts. Then again, this is also a movie where you can pull out of a ship that is stuck in you by reversing thrust, when in fact that'd just drag you both through space backwards. Firing forward and back and reversing that to wedge yourself out would have looked a lot cooler and been more honest (and inflicted more damage on the E.)

The treknovel FEDERATION has got a great -d ramming warbird sequence, though. They even justify it in a somewhat credible technical way (a real strong point with those authors' efforts in MEMORY PRIME and PRIME DIRECTIVE as well.)


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## woof359 (Apr 27, 2003)

*ships of the line calendar*

the 2006 ships of the line show the refit inprogress, i wood buy the calendar, but most if not all the pic center on the center fold crease, i hate that so ill pass on this calendar too.


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## Tholian (Oct 3, 2004)

The Doomsday machine was the top of my Favorite episodes when I was a child. Many more have been added to the list now.
But that show was the one I would look for every night on Channel 11 and it was like getting a surprise in your dessert when it did air.
So when I made my USS Hood, I feel I got most of my inspiration from that show.


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## spe130 (Apr 13, 2004)

CaptFrank said:


> *U.S.S. FRANKLIN CV - 13*
> 
> 
> They fixed her, and she sat in reserve.
> ...


I think those were just re-designations to different roles, not refits. She probably had no work done after the initial re-construction. Strange that it was allowed to sit like that until scrapping, though...look at how long _Intrepid_ remained in service.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

If the _Constellation _was salvagable after being chewed up by the Doomsday weapon, then surely the _Excalibur _was salvaged after M5 killed the crew and wrecked the ship.


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## spe130 (Apr 13, 2004)

PerfesserCoffee said:


> If the _Constellation _was salvagable after being chewed up by the Doomsday weapon, then surely the _Excalibur _was salvaged after M5 killed the crew and wrecked the ship.


We never did see what damage was done to the _Excalibur_ and the rest of Bob Wesley's force. "Ultimate Computer" would be a great candidate for CGI effects.


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## spacecraft guy (Aug 16, 2003)

The "battle damaged" Johnny Lightning TOS E probably looks like what M-5 did to the starships under Bob Wesley's command. For $3.99 it's not a bad deal. Besides, I couldn't find an "un" battle damaged one.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

spe130 said:


> We never did see what damage was done to the _Excalibur_ and the rest of Bob Wesley's force. "Ultimate Computer" would be a great candidate for CGI effects.


 Interestingly, I just watched that episode, paying particular attention to the damage inflicted so I could model a damaged ship from the ep.

Enterprise fired only 5 shots.

*Lexington -* hit twice - once in impulse engineering, once in uspecified location. 53 dead according to Wesley's first transmission.

*Potemkin* - hit once, damage unspecified.

*Excalibur* - hit twice. First "direct hit" (Sulu's words) killed 12 inlcuding captain and first officer. Second hit killed entire crew, but left the ship visually intact.

*Hood *- got away scott free with _no hits, no damage_.

I'm assuming the first hit on Excalibur took out the bridge and penetrated a deck or two below. This easily explains 12 dead including the command staff. The second hit is a bit of a mystery - we see the flash happen roughly dead-center on the ship. This somehow kills 400 people without causing any parts to come off the ship (since all they did was superimpose a flash over a wide shot the effects model).


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

^^I think the damage was, incredibly enough,  absolutely identical to that suffered by the _USS Constellation_ at the mercy of the Doomsday Machine.

BTW: Wouldn't _IKC Doomsday Machine_ make a great name for a Klingon ship? :freak:


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

PerfesserCoffee said:


> ^^I think the damage was, incredibly enough,  absolutely identical to that suffered by the _USS Constellation_ at the mercy of the Doomsday Machine.


 Where are you getting that from? There were no closeups or detail shots in the episode. The only way we know of any damage is Bob Wesley's transmissions and the one shot of the flash on the Excalibur.


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## m5multitronic (May 27, 2005)

I enjoyed the "Ships of the Line" calender shots of the _Hood_ , _Potemkin_ , and _Lexington_ , even though I have a hard time imagining Commodore Wesley claiming to Starfleet that "I still have an effective fighting force" with one of his ship's warp nacelles completely blown off!

I'm thinking that, had it still been operational, the M5 would've gobbled them up like _hors dourves_ , and gone looking for something a little more filling for it's main course. Something like a planet, maybe......or perhaps even.....a Doomsday Machine?! :tongue: 

By the way, I'm still tinkering with an old AMT/ERTL "Command Bridge" kit that I've done up as the bridge of the _Excalibur_ . (Okay, it's more like 2 & 1/2 kits, but you get the idea.) I figured that if, as Wesley reported, "Captain Harris and (his) First Officer (were) dead", maybe that meant that everyone on the bridge was killed when the bridge was opened up to space. I was inspired by the 2005 SoTL calender's centerfold, although I disagreed with the (admittedly cool-looking) lack of gravity to hold down the chairs, debris, & whatnot. I mean, didn't the artist ever actually _watch_ the show? Man, Starfleet ships can be blown to smithereens (see "The Doomsday Machine", and others), or completely without power (see many, many episodes of every series) and still the artificial gravity _will not fail_ ! Must be some pretty amazing tech, it always seemed to me. Plus, as far as my model is concerned, I wanted all the trash, chairs, bodies, and assorted greeblies scattered all over the floor of the bridge. Scarier & much gnarlier that way, IMO.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

John P said:


> Where are you getting that from?


They re-used the _USS Constellation_ model from _The Doomsday Machine_.


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## Rogue1 (Jan 3, 2000)

If the Constellation's warp nacelles were toast, how would they get her back to port to be fixed? Can one ship tow another in warp? Would they have to do the nacelle change over on site?


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## m5multitronic (May 27, 2005)

I know it's not considered canon, but the Franz Joseph Tech Manual shows tug-type ships with dual warp nacelles, which would seem to imply that things could be towed at warp speed. Whole starships? Who knows? But surely a pair of _Constitution_ -class nacelles could be taken to a damaged starship. Of course, Scotty did say that he couldn't repair the _Constellation_ 's warp drive without a spacedock, though I suppose it's possible that he was referring to the drive itself, rather than the nacelles. More likely both, I'd imagine....

Also, when Kirk has the M5 scan the _Excalibur_ in "The Ultimate Computer", the shot of the ship they show on the screen is definitely stock footage of the _Constellation_ from "The Doomsday Machine".


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## KUROK (Feb 2, 2004)

After the first hit by crazed M5 on a starship, wouldn't the rest of the force immediately put their shields up to maximum?


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## Griffworks (Jun 24, 2002)

That likely happened, as it would explain why _Potemkin_ and _Exeter_ appear to have received only light-to-moderate damage compared to the other two ships.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Griffworks said:


> That likely happened, as it would explain why _Potemkin_ and _Exeter_ appear to have received only light-to-moderate damage compared to the other two ships.


_Exeter?_


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## Nova Designs (Oct 10, 2000)

LOL, must've been a late comer to that party


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## Griffworks (Jun 24, 2002)

Er... _Hood_... No clue why I typed _Exeter_ in there....


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Hehehehe!

It's amazing to me that we can keep track of all these fictional ships as well as we usually do.


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## Rogue1 (Jan 3, 2000)

Fictional? Oh no....


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

^^There I go again: spoiling everyone's festive holiday mood by opening my big mouth!


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

PerfesserCoffee said:


> They re-used the _USS Constellation_ model from _The Doomsday Machine_.


 Okay, I see now. But you can BARELY make it out, so...


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

^^O, ye of lyttle faithe!


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## Tyboy4umodels (Apr 26, 2005)

Looks like the Excalibur to me LOL :lol:


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

^^I'm planning to make a standard AMT 18" model into the Excalibur (in a non-damaged state, however). Seems like a legit variation on the Constitution class.


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## Lloyd Collins (Sep 25, 2004)

^^ Can't wait to see your Excalibur.


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## Tyboy4umodels (Apr 26, 2005)

Yes Please Post Pics,Perfesser. Also Thanks for the pics Perfesser on the Phase II.


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## spe130 (Apr 13, 2004)

PerfesserCoffee said:


> ^^I'm planning to make a standard AMT 18" model into the Excalibur (in a non-damaged state, however). Seems like a legit variation on the Constitution class.


That AMT thing is canon...at least as the Constellation. Look at our wet navies - within classes, there always seem to be structural variations. I can deal with every Connie not looking exactly alike ... or the weird fins on the nacelles of the Galaxy-class Venture or Odyssey (can't remember which one shown on DS9 had them).


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## ClubTepes (Jul 31, 2002)

spe130 said:


> That AMT thing is canon...at least as the Constellation. Look at our wet navies - within classes, there always seem to be structural variations. I can deal with every Connie not looking exactly alike ... or the weird fins on the nacelles of the Galaxy-class Venture or Odyssey (can't remember which one shown on DS9 had them).


I think it was USS Venture, that had those extra lumps on the top rear of the nacelles.

I don't remember (could be wrong) seeing the top side of the Odyssey form the DS-9 Ep. where she got toasted by the Jem-Hadar.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Tyboy4umodels said:


> Yes Please Post Pics,Perfesser. Also Thanks for the pics Perfesser on the Phase II.


No problem. I've got some more to send you as soon as I'm able and your box is cleared. :thumbsup:



ClubTepes said:


> I think it was USS Venture, that had those extra lumps on the top rear of the nacelles.
> 
> I don't remember (could be wrong) seeing the top side of the Odyssey form the DS-9 Ep. where she got toasted by the Jem-Hadar.


Yeah, I remember that. Seems they just took off the third nacelle and a few other details from the AGT 1701-D and left some thingies on the nacelles. Pretty cool variation as you point out.



Lloyd Collins said:


> Can't wait to see your Excalibur.


Thanks, Lloyd! I'll be sure to post pics when done. Still working on the workshop right now though I didn't get much done the last few days due to kidney stone. ARRRRGH!! Oh, well. I'll get over it. :thumbsup:


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## Andyreb3 (Nov 23, 2005)

If you read the books , Generations and Shatners star trek literature, the saucer was salvaged but due to damage it was scrapped. Since the planet Veridian III is a primitive planet & the Non Interference Directive, Starfleet was required to Recover the Saucer & Remove all proof of any type of accident ever happened there,there was one done and featured in Fine Scale Modeler as an article back in the late 90's.

As for the Constellation it probably more than likely would have ended up as some sort of Training Vessel for Damage Control or some type of Hangar Queen for Starfleet(aka: Too Battle Damaged For Repair) due to the severity of her damge from the the planet killer.


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## spe130 (Apr 13, 2004)

I did some nosing around online...the _Venture_ (and possibly one or two other) _Galaxy_-class ships shown on DS9 had the extra phasers on top of the nacelles, left over from the AGT future-_Enterprise-D_ conversion. The CGI Galaxy-class ships used in the battle scenes (including possibly the _Venture_) don't have them.


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