# The Bowtie is Back



## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

Production shots of the new Camaro:

http://autobytel.espn.go.com/conten...plates/index.cfm/ID/25173/article_id_int/2955

Looks very sharp, a little bigger than I expected, but definitely equipped with some serious muscle under the hood. I wonder if they will do a Z28?


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## satellite1 (Jan 9, 2004)

I`am a MOPAR Guy, but this new Camaro dream machine is sharp :thumbsup:
A perfect twin for the new Challenger


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## SplitPoster (May 16, 2006)

I'm not a GM guy either, but that's the best looking Camaro since the first generation cars, hands down. 

Given the specs, I wonder how affordable it will be, but with a base engine with 300 hp it will be plenty stout - doesn't look like there will be an entry level low budget/poser/secretary car version like the old 283 2 speed. Have to see what shows up at the dealer, but I can't imagine this not being a hit out of the box.


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## 1976Cordoba (Sep 20, 2000)

Let's see - 6.2 litre V8 . . . based on my Milwaukee south sider math that's about 380 cubic inches. *GIT-R-DONE!* :thumbsup:


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## tjd241 (Jan 25, 2004)

I wonder if it'll last as long as this Bowtie over on da Bay (Item number: 360079624471) ?? nd


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## PD2 (Feb 27, 2003)

I like and I'm glad that the Camaro is coming back with a retro like the rest of the guys. Ford got a jump on MOPAR and Chevy, with MOPAR hitting the streets with two retros BEFORE the Camaro - let's hope that the Chevy guys paid attention to what the other two did with their cars.

As for the Camaro itself, it seems the styling took on the shape and look of what the MOPAR guys did with the Challenger, hence I'm with satellite1 and SplitPoster on this...it makes the Chevy appeal to those that like the Challenger and other MOPAR retros. 

I'd personally like to have a Charger SRT8 SuperBee, Challenger SRT8, and a Camaro SS in the garage or driveway.

Good to see the muscle cars will not die with gas prices!

PD2:thumbsup:


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## rudykizuty (Aug 16, 2007)

1976Cordoba said:


> Let's see - 6.2 litre V8 . . . based on my Milwaukee south sider math that's about 380 cubic inches. *GIT-R-DONE!* :thumbsup:



LOL....sounds like the Milwaukee school system is doing a fine job. I don't know of anyone from the old neighborhood educated outside the parochial school system that might have figured that one out. :freak:


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## brownie374 (Nov 21, 2007)

Ya its real nice but it aint a CORVETTE!


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## bumpercar88 (Feb 6, 2005)

These sports cars are great, however they're not going to help the big 3 regain market share. The foreign markets won't feel the nostalgia and the cars certainly aren't going to compete in the mpg game. I love the retro Stang, Camaro, and Challengers but I do have to question if Detroit has their priorities in order. Seems like Detroit got caught w/ they're pants down for a 2nd oil crunch. 2- shares of Ford stock will get you a MM or Dash Ford body w/o chassis. Am I the only one that sees some serious problems here?


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

Gound level 3/4 view from the rear is flattering. Thankfully they finally lost that fat chick riding a bike look from the rear. The roof line is very close to the old school.

Front grill area leaves me kinda ...ho-hum.


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## PD2 (Feb 27, 2003)

brownie374 said:


> Ya its real nice but it aint a CORVETTE!


I'd tend to agree, but seeing that I own two, 1963 Corvettes, I'm not to thrilled with what Chevy has done with their latest rendering of the Corvette. Guess I'm too traditional and not really loving how the new Corvette did away with things that have been a trademark of Corvette tradition. Maybe they will come back to it in the new generation.

PD2:thumbsup:


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## 1976Cordoba (Sep 20, 2000)

PD2 said:


> . . . I'm not to thrilled with what Chevy has done with their latest rendering of the Corvette . . . PD2:thumbsup:


I felt the same way about the '93 Firebird . . . until I drove a '93 Formula 350. Suddenly my older Firebird just wasn't the same.

Can't beat modern tech for go-fast goodness.


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## brownie374 (Nov 21, 2007)

I like the c-6 but they should have kept the flip up headlights


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## tjettim (Nov 29, 2005)

Cadillac front end-oh well.Wealthy middle age customer target.
Now they need a smaller youth oriented version.Cheaper,lighter,
a small turbo engine with adjustable fuel mapping to go from gas 
miser to giant killer.


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## noddaz (Aug 6, 1999)

*Well...*

Ok, it is retro-ish.
And oil is on the way down, for now...
But what is next? A Cosworth Vega?
(That may be more relevant...)


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

The Camaro looks great! But they still actually have to sell it. What do you think, O% APR and a gas card? Does the powertrain warranty still work if you put stickier tires on it?

Did you see the "supercars exposed" with the Tesla and the electric Cobra? I work on electric forklifts, so, I love whats been going on with the electric stuff, but have you bought a computer lately? I mean, who bought the first iPhones? It seems the average car sells for about 20k and is worth about 5k after five years. That's a nuts and bolt car. Can you imagine how fast an electric car will depreciate as fast as the battery and electric motor technology is moving? This "technical revolution" is killing the value on everything. Meanwhile, my carburated '85 Ram Charger runs almost as emissions clean as new, and has gas mileage as good as the new Dodges. What kind of technology are we buying?

The average Joe won't be able to afford either of these technologies with any kind of performance. What's worse, if financed, it won't be worth what it was paid for by the time it's paid off. Has the depreciation on cars been about what it has always been? My dad bought a '72 Rally Nova in 1974 for 2k. I guess you could buy a five year old car then for about 500 bucks, but that car started out at 3k. You can still find 500 dollar cars today, but it was probably 15k new. The average salary just hasn't kept up.

I hope the Camaro and Challenger revitalize the American market share. The big question is, where are they made. Last I heard, the Mustang was the only American owned and built car in the top ten in sales. I hope the Dodge and Chevy add to that success. I want to see the American manufacturers go in a totally different direction, and get the heck away from copying the Japs and the Germans. Look at the success of these cars....
American Trucks and SUVs
Chevy HHR
Chrysler PT Cruiser
Ford Mustang
Chevy Corvette
Dodge Caravan
All these cars have changed the industry in some way and enjoy good sales for the market they are trying to reach. No copies here. Instead of chopping away at our lineage to put another cheap FWD four door on the road, Let's build cars we like. This is America, dang it, let's lead!

_The opinions expressed are solely of the writer._

Rich

www.myspace.com/northtexasslotcars:thumbsup:


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## PD2 (Feb 27, 2003)

1976Cordoba said:


> I felt the same way about the '93 Firebird . . . until I drove a '93 Formula 350. Suddenly my older Firebird just wasn't the same.
> 
> Can't beat modern tech for go-fast goodness.


I never said anything about the HP's bro.  That's a different story....I'll definitely take anything from the base to the ZR1 in terms of motor. 

PD2:thumbsup:


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## PD2 (Feb 27, 2003)

brownie374 said:


> I like the c-6 but they should have kept the flip up headlights


BINGO! This is exactly what I'm talking about. There are other areas, but that was one of the KEY trademarks of the Corvettes! The last Corvette NOT to have it was the '62 - and that is when things went to the Sting Rays and rollover lights.

PD2:thumbsup:


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## Slott V (Feb 3, 2005)

AfxToo said:


> ...I wonder if they will do a Z28?


No Z/28


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

Too bad about the Z28. But in today's stagnant economy I guess you can forgive them for nixing a model that's unattainable by so many. 



> Cadillac front end-oh well.


I agree. Chevy seems to be at a loss to define its brand identity. They are the polar opposite to the likes of BMW, Mercedes, and even Pontiac and Dodge to produce an unmistakable look that screams "That's a Chevy." Even Ford has been trying to establish the chrome Venetian blind (aka "Fusion") look, while ugly, is at least brand recognizable. Chevy on the other hand is flip flopping all over the place every couple of years. While nothing from the Bowtie crew will ever come close to Subaru's horrible pig nosed Tribeca experiment, they need to nail down a visually appealing theme and stick with it for a while.


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## 1976Cordoba (Sep 20, 2000)

AfxToo said:


> . . . Chevy . . . are the polar opposite to the likes of BMW, Mercedes, and even Pontiac and Dodge to produce an unmistakable look that screams "That's a Chevy." Even Ford has been trying to establish the chrome Venetian blind (aka "Fusion") look, while ugly, is at least brand recognizable . . .


AFXToo, I am normally right there with ya on about 99.9% of the things you say, but on this I will disagree. I think it is ridiculous that a Dodge Viper shares any styling cues whatsoever with a Dodge Caravan. :freak:

Chargers didn't look like Darts . . . Torinos didn't look like Mavericks . . . Camaros didn't look like Monte Carlos, etc., etc.

Maybe that is something that is commercially a good idea, but I think it kind of kills artistic freedom to produce a better look with a clean sheet of paper.

At least on the new Challenger they minimized that 'crosshair' design element on the front end . . . this is what I see as a better execution of a 'styling cue' than having to have a big gaping grill on everything from the soccer mom hauler to the corporate supercar.

My $.02 worth. Don't worry, I'd still buy ya a beer. :wave:


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

No problem at all. This is just an OT forum to put out some ideas and opinions, not a debate. 

While some styling cues scale well between vastly different vehicle types, like BMW, some don't or are more limited. You can only push the big grill look so far. I'm not a fan of the RAM truck look on the Viper either, and even the Avenger and Caliber look more than a bit odd trying to carry the same theme from the RAM, 300, Charger, etc. So yeah, it's possible to pick a dominant theme that's a universal turn off, which is probably worse than no theme or a rambling, change it every two years approach. There is however an art to subtlety and brand styling cues don't have to slap you in the face like the Dodge ones do. I just find myself looking at the last decade of Chevys and thinking, what the heck are they experimenting with this time? They are still searching and have not yet stumbled on a look that will stick. Cadillac has always had an unmistakable look and tries hard to maintain it across their product line. Pontiac has it working, even with the abominable looking Aztek and the rebadged Toyota Matrix (Vibe) they seem to pull it off very well.


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## brownie374 (Nov 21, 2007)

Speaking of pony cars has anyone noticed the new challenger is HUGE way too big for a pony car.


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

The draft horse is the new pony. The new Camaro has picked up some chunk as well. It definitely has a lot more girth and weight than the Gen 1 Camaro. The new SS Camaro is within a loaded golf bag of 2 tons, but it has the engine to move that mass around without hesitation. The same can be said of the new Challenger.

They have all gotten bigger and heavier over the years. Just like the rest of us.


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

I heard the crash ratings are the reasons for the heavier weight. Is that true?


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## roadrner (Jul 21, 1999)

AfxToo said:


> The same can be said of the new Challenger.
> 
> They have all gotten bigger and heavier over the years. Just like the rest of us.


 
Went down to my local Dodge "Boys" to check out the five Challengers they have sitting there. Sweet lookers and would to take one home, I just couldn't see putting out $62K.  

Don't see how they'll sell these like Ford's doing with the retro Mustangs. Salesman did say that cheaper versions will be forthcoming next year but he believed any decently optioned Challenger would still be between the $30K-$40K range. :drunk:

Maybe I'll pick up a used one down the road. :lol: rr


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## brownie374 (Nov 21, 2007)

*435 Horse and a dodge auto trans?*

:freak:Lets see base corvette 40 grand 0% fin. 435 horse Challenger srt 62grand 425 horse dodge automatic trans withparts laying in the street.Anyone else here ever own a dodge I did 2000 ram pickup biggest p.o.s. I ever owned bought brand new rear end replaced at 200 miles tranny out 3 times before 2000 miles brake caliper fell off at 19000 miles 19050 at carmax!


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## Mexkilbee (Apr 17, 2008)

I was told NASCAR wanted to re-invent the Busch series with these three cars, and that hey pushed chevy into the retro camarro for that reason. Has anyone else heard that? Weather or not NASCAR does it or not, wouldn't that be something to see these cars on a road course decked in trans-am, scca or imsa trim?


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## rudykizuty (Aug 16, 2007)

Mexkilbee said:


> I was told NASCAR wanted to re-invent the Busch series with these three cars, and that hey pushed chevy into the retro camarro for that reason. Has anyone else heard that? Weather or not NASCAR does it or not, wouldn't that be something to see these cars on a road course decked in trans-am, scca or imsa trim?


I do recall reading somewhere that it was NASCAR's desire to introduce the Nationwide COT with "heritage" model names, but no specific names were mentioned. I think the article was in NASCAR Scene several months ago.


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## 1976Cordoba (Sep 20, 2000)

rudykizuty said:


> I do recall reading somewhere that it was NASCAR's desire to introduce the Nationwide COT with "heritage" model names, but no specific names were mentioned. I think the article was in NASCAR Scene several months ago.


I had read online many months back that NASCAR wanted the Busch series COTs to be decaled like Challengers, Mustangs, etc.

Ummmmmmm . . . yeah. That butt-fugly COT with a 'Challenger' decal set. O-Kaaaaaaaaay. :freak:


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## roadrner (Jul 21, 1999)

1976Cordoba said:


> I had read online many months back that NASCAR wanted the Busch series COTs to be decaled like Challengers, Mustangs, etc.
> 
> Ummmmmmm . . . yeah. That butt-fugly COT with a 'Challenger' decal set. O-Kaaaaaaaaay. :freak:


 
If NASCAR really wanted to do something outside the box, they ought to make the teams go out and get a couple of cars from their respective team's dealer. Have them make them race ready and safe, then tell them to bring 'em to the track on Sunday. Bring you pink slips too. :devil: 

Miss those early NASCAR days!  rr


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## aelancaster (Apr 8, 2006)

Talk aobout the early days. I have always thought Nascar should put them on dirt a couple of times every year. That sure would seperate the men from the little cute hairdo and sunglass boys.


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## PD2 (Feb 27, 2003)

aelancaster said:


> Talk aobout the early days. I have always thought Nascar should put them on dirt a couple of times every year. That sure would seperate the men from the little cute hairdo and sunglass boys.


I think that is why Tony Stewart holds his charity race - aside from the charitable aspect. It's really interesting to see who can drive on the dirt during that race and who has no clue! HA!

PD2:thumbsup:


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## bobhch (Apr 22, 2007)

*Camaro...YES!*

I have one on the bench. Hellonwheels8 had it in a seconds lot and just needs a little easy pin hole filling and a HW window to finish it.

Poof...in reverse. Bill I feel the pain still from that Red Convertible meltdown. Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!

Bob...Red Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm maybe...zilla


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## PD2 (Feb 27, 2003)

VERY nice Bobzilla! Are the plans for one or more?  If more, any chance of being put on the "list"? 

PD2:thumbsup:


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## bobhch (Apr 22, 2007)

*It won't be anytime soon!!!!!!!*



PD2 said:


> VERY nice Bobzilla! Are the plans for one or more?  If more, any chance of being put on the "list"?
> 
> PD2:thumbsup:


PD2,

I am not even sure what chassis this thing mounts up on yet? I was thinking of doing more than this one but, won't be for a while. Send me a P.M with color and detail information and will fill out the proper forms to get the ball rolling:roll:...lol

Bob...I am seeing Candy Apple Red...zilla


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## PD2 (Feb 27, 2003)

bobhch said:


> PD2,
> 
> I am not even sure what chassis this thing mounts up on yet? I was thinking of doing more than this one but, won't be for a while. Send me a P.M with color and detail information and will fill out the proper forms to get the ball rolling:roll:...lol
> 
> Bob...I am seeing Candy Apple Red...zilla


Forms submitted....just keep me in the loop and informed kind sir!

Thanks!
PD2:thumbsup:


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