# How many people do you think participate in the HO slot car hobby?



## tasman (Feb 17, 2007)

In light of the recent thread "Why aren't slot cars more popular today?" and the answers provided, I am curious to know just how many people worldwide YOU think are active in the HO slot car Hobby. 

I would consider someone active in the hobby if they....

1. have their own track and use it
2. run or race cars on a regular basis
3. collect HO slot cars
4. purchase cars, track, parts on a regular basis

I would not consider a kid that got a slot car track as a gift and used it for a couple months and put it away as someone active in the hobby.

I wish there was an acurate way to know the answer. I wonder if a moderator could tell us how many distinct members on HT use the slot car forum.


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## slotcarman12078 (Oct 3, 2008)

Interesting concept. Entirely based of gut feelings, though. Sadly, us mods don't have that kind of numbers access, so it's more a guessing game with no real answer. It is a great big world, and since this is "world-wide" I'd guess the number pretty high. I know HO slots are still pretty hip in Japan...


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## tasman (Feb 17, 2007)

slotcarman12078 said:


> Interesting concept. Entirely based of gut feelings, though. Sadly, us mods don't have that kind of numbers access, so it's more a guessing game with no real answer. It is a great big world, and since this is "world-wide" I'd guess the number pretty high. I know HO slots are still pretty hip in Japan...


Responses from the Why are slot cars more popular today thread varied from the hobby is dead to the hobby has never been bigger. Obvious both can't be true (probably neither is) so I'm curious what perceptions are about how many of us are actually out there?

Like I said I wish there was a way to know more scientifically. When the poll is done it might be fun to see if the responses cluster by geographical location.


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## carlosnseattle (May 12, 2009)

The world is a really really big place
I voted for 10,000+


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## slots-n-stuff (Oct 18, 2006)

My educated guess... based on a customer base since 2012... would be over 4000 but less than 10,000


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## slotcarman12078 (Oct 3, 2008)

I'm a category 1, with beer on the side. My gig was heavily in the scenery. Slot cars were either moving scenery for my trains, or vice versa. Since my favorite time to run everything was at night in a dark room, lighting cars was a necessity. I didn't actually drive the cars or the trains. It all kinda ran itself, while I kicked back with a couple cold ones and waited for something to inevitably go wrong. Having a Jerry rigged, 4 lane / 2 track RR Xing that was automated, something was bound to happen. Sometimes, just pushing a momentary on button to clear a car off the tracks before the train got it, other times I'd have a couple very long derailed trains to get back on track, not to mention getting the cars back on. The level of calamity usually depended on the number of empty beer cans near the sink. :lol:


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## A/GS (Jul 10, 2014)

As an educated guess I would think the numbers for North America would have to be closer to a 100,000. I don't think current sales figures would give you an accurate figure due to those who only use cars and track purchased originally in the past. Further many have probably given up on the main company still producing HO cars and track AW. I know, as I may have to join them due to lack of interest in what they're providing; and the quality of their products. Worldwide you have to assume it's close to a million. 10,000 seems like way too small a number to me.


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## TK Solver (Mar 18, 2004)

My vote was based on North America only which was an oversight on my part. I'd bump my vote up to 2,501 to 5,000 with that in mind. I also assumed that all four of tasman's points had to be true for someone to qualify. If just one of the four points qualifies someone then the numbers would be higher. If the North America numbers are 100,000 as A/GS suggests, there's no way that LifeLike and/or Mattel would have left the market.


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## aurora fan (Jan 18, 1999)

Millions and Millions


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## A/GS (Jul 10, 2014)

aurora fan said:


> Millions and Millions


ABSOLUTELY CORRECT ! My estimates were conservative at best.  :thumbsup: AG/S / Terry


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## super8man (Jan 29, 2013)

Just under 100 crazy people show up to the Fray in Ferndale based on the number of teams I have seen in the past two years (about 14 teams of 5 to 6 people). These are people who book time off work and travel from as far away as Florida to race. Interestingly, some of them are simply 'hired guns" or "triggermen" who don't really participate in the hobby according to your listings...and yet there they are, at the top ranks in many aspects as racers. 

I am going to guess there are, on average, 10 people in each city with a population of 100,000 or more in the USA that are active in the HO hobby as you describe. (A totally arbitrary use of bad math on my part.) That would make about 2,500+ active HO people in the USA. There are many more "enthusiasts" but I would guess between 2500-5000 folks.

Oh, and 250 in Canada and 25 in Mexico.

Fun with numbers!


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## carlosnseattle (May 12, 2009)

If someone has to meet all 4 of the criteria you outlined, then they are most likely someone who visits this forum. But there was a time when I didn't touch my HO cars for years and didn't visit this forum, still had a bunch of cars, so I would have met the 1st and 3rd requirement. I still think we only get the vocal minority on these forums. We probably hear from less than half the people who have slot cars. 

There's no way the number of people WORLDWIDE who meet your criteria is less than 10K.

This forum alone has had 75,580 people join since its inception. And 12,000 of those members have visited since August of 2013: http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/memberlist.php?&pp=30&order=desc&sort=lastvisit&page=401


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## A/GS (Jul 10, 2014)

super8man said:


> Just under 100 crazy people show up to the Fray in Ferndale based on the number of teams I have seen in the past two years (about 14 teams of 5 to 6 people). These are people who book time off work and travel from as far away as Florida to race. Interestingly, some of them are simply 'hired guns" or "triggermen" who don't really participate in the hobby according to your listings...and yet there they are, at the top ranks in many aspects as racers.
> 
> I am going to guess there are, on average, 10 people in each city with a population of 100,000 or more in the USA that are active in the HO hobby as you describe. (A totally arbitrary use of bad math on my part.) That would make about 2,500+ active HO people in the USA. There are many more "enthusiasts" but I would guess between 2500-5000 folks.
> 
> ...


Bad math is right. 250 in Canada ??? Probably 1,000 in the city I live in alone. What's with these absolutely ridiculous low ball number estimates ? If these numbers were anywhere close to being accurate; this hobby would already be dead.


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## Bubba 123 (Sep 10, 2010)

slotcarman12078 said:


> I'm a category 1, with beer on the side. My gig was heavily in the scenery. Slot cars were either moving scenery for my trains, or vice versa. Since my favorite time to run everything was at night in a dark room, lighting cars was a necessity. I didn't actually drive the cars or the trains. It all kinda ran itself, while I kicked back with a couple cold ones and waited for something to inevitably go wrong. Having a Jerry rigged, 4 lane / 2 track RR Xing that was automated, something was bound to happen. Sometimes, just pushing a momentary on button to clear a car off the tracks before the train got it, other times I'd have a couple very long derailed trains to get back on track, not to mention getting the cars back on. The level of calamity usually depended on the number of empty beer cans near the sink. :lol:


oh... "Gomez"!!! (Addams) :thumbsup::wave:
Bubba 123 :wave:
I collect, run/play on my track...but no 1, 2 race with so... :drunk:


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## Bubba 123 (Sep 10, 2010)

A/GS said:


> As an educated guess I would think the numbers for North America would have to be closer to a 100,000. I don't think current sales figures would give you an accurate figure due to those who only use cars and track purchased originally in the past. Further many have probably given up on the main company still producing HO cars and track AW. I know, as I may have to join them due to lack of interest in what they're providing; and the quality of their products. Worldwide you have to assume it's close to a million. 10,000 seems like way too small a number to me.


can U guys list/post sites 4 the car mfg's overseas ?? (UK, Japan, Spain, Ect..) 
maybe they have distributers or dealers in U.S./Canada???
TY :wave:

Bubba 123


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## TK Solver (Mar 18, 2004)

carlosnseattle said:


> This forum alone has had 75,580 people join since its inception. And 12,000 of those members have visited since August of 2013: http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/memberlist.php?&pp=30&order=desc&sort=lastvisit&page=401


This HobbyTalk forum includes 7 different hobbies with slot cars being just one of them. And some of the slot car people are not HO slot car people.


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## dlw (Aug 17, 1999)

I'm guessing you're referring to U.S. population only, in which over 10,000 is a good bet.

Many racers out there who only lurk here, and even more who don't at all.....


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## slotking (May 27, 2008)

> Many racers out there who only lurk here, and even more who don't at all.....


yep

I think the internet is only a small fraction of the slot people in HO


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## carlosnseattle (May 12, 2009)

TK Solver said:


> This HobbyTalk forum includes 7 different hobbies with slot cars being just one of them. And some of the slot car people are not HO slot car people.


You're absolutely right about that. I didn't even account for the other hobby areas. But like the other guys have said, and I know from my own experience; there are many many people who don't come to this forum who love slot cars.

Case in point; there are less than 10K total members of the SCI forum worldwide, but it would be impossible for any slot car company to make money if there were only 10K people worldwide involved in slot cars.

And there are at least three other slot car forums in the states that people use anyway. And you can tell by some of the questions that get posted on those that they don't know about this forum. If they did they could easily find the answer to their question.


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## super8man (Jan 29, 2013)

Perhaps one way to think about it is as a series of waves with each progressive wave smaller than the last one. As the baby boomers die off, the largest group of hobbyists will disappear forever. There was a little bump in the hobby as a whole in the heady 2000s with the renewed interest in 1/32 cars but will it sustain the whole hobby? That's a tough one.

So, at some point there were a lot of HO hobbyists but as their interest ebbs and flows, the corresponding collection of stuff is destined to be used again, sold to a younger person, or tossed in the landfill. Slowly but surely the landfill wins.

And yeah, I will revise my estimate of Canada...1000 active folks according to the criteria given. 

Compared to model trains, slot cars are 1/20th in size for active people doing the hobby.


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## carlosnseattle (May 12, 2009)

You could also use ebay as a metric to determine interest/enthusiast. Here's what you fidn whgen you look at the number of auctions being offered in each category.

Slot cars of all scales: 44,729
HO: 19,403
R/C: 866,854
Trains of all scales: 476,928
Diecast: 1,1000,000

Obviously those numbers don't directly correlate to the number of enthusiast, but it gives you some perspective. But superman's belief in a 20:1 ratio of train users to HO slot car guys is pretty accurate based on ebay auctions:thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## super8man (Jan 29, 2013)

Though, back in 1963, according to Lionel:

_“HO Scale Raceways The World’s Fastest Growing Hobby.” In one short year, slot cars had gone from an international sport to the world’s fastest growing hobby._

Other quotes from where I got that one include, _"most items produced in the 60’s seemed to be the poor neglected stepchild of the train collecting culture."_

Interesting. Don't get me wrong, I love slot cars of all kinds, but I don't think it's as popular as ping-pong tables. And train folks are still using that "World's Greatest Hobby" line. It all depends on how you interpret "Greatest" I suppose.


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## pshoe64 (Jun 10, 2008)

I have 4 websites dedicated to slot cars in some fashion of another. I have 84,000+ RSS subscriptions for those sites. Worldwide, it would have to be far over 10,000 or companies like Carrera, Scalectrix and the large scale stuff with unique chassis per body would not survive. Slot racing is still a sizable hobby in Europe, South Africa, Brazil, Japan and Australia. 1/32nd is still far more popular worldwide, HO in the US and Pacific Rim areas.

-Paul


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## slotcarman12078 (Oct 3, 2008)

HO would have to be the way to go in Japan. They are really space starved, at least in the major cities.


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## A/GS (Jul 10, 2014)

carlosnseattle said:


> You could also use ebay as a metric to determine interest/enthusiast. Here's what you fidn whgen you look at the number of auctions being offered in each category.
> 
> Slot cars of all scales: 44,729
> HO: 19,403
> ...


There is absolutely no way what-so-ever that these numbers make any sense. Model Railroading is easily 10 times more popular than R/C. R/C is a niche market at best. Costly, with endless breakdowns; both mechanical and with the electronics. It's a hobby reserved for those able to spend endless time on repairs; rather than the short-lived fun of actual operation.


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## carlosnseattle (May 12, 2009)

A/GS said:


> There is absolutely no way what-so-ever that these numbers make any sense. Model Railroading is easily 10 times more popular than R/C. R/C is a niche market at best. Costly, with endless breakdowns; both mechanical and with the electronics. It's a hobby reserved for those able to spend endless time on repairs; rather than the short-lived fun of actual operation.


OK, but model trains are all the same...model trains. R/C has more scale choices, everything from micro sized little thingies to quarter scale behemoths. You also have FAAAARRRRRR more variety with vehicles; cars, trucks, buggies, on-road, off-road, sailboats, tugboats, speedboats, hydroplanes, airplanes, helicopters, drones, etc. 

To be honest I would have thought model railroads was bigger than RC, but after pondering this question tonight I'll bet RC is much much bigger than model trains. Just go to your LHS and look around. There's 10X more RC gear than trains gear at Hobbytown USA. Look at Tower Hobbies, it's all about RC. So sorry, you are wrong. 

All the model railroaders are old geezers, even older than us slotheads. We just have to accept that we live in a new world, where what once was big isn't anymore. RC is bigger than model railroading. If you don't believe the numbers ask your LHS or look in trade publications for verification.


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## A/GS (Jul 10, 2014)

carlosnseattle said:


> OK, but model trains are all the same...model trains. R/C has more scale choices, everything from micro sized little thingies to quarter scale behemoths. You also have FAAAARRRRRR more variety with vehicles; cars, trucks, buggies, on-road, off-road, sailboats, tugboats, speedboats, hydroplanes, airplanes, helicopters, drones, etc.
> 
> To be honest I would have thought model railroads was bigger than RC, but after pondering this question tonight I'll bet RC is much much bigger than model trains. Just go to your LHS and look around. There's 10X more RC gear than trains gear at Hobbytown USA. Look at Tower Hobbies, it's all about RC. So sorry, you are wrong.
> 
> All the model railroaders are old geezers, even older than us slotheads. We just have to accept that we live in a new world, where what once was big isn't anymore. RC is bigger than model railroading. If you don't believe the numbers ask your LHS or look in trade publications for verification.


Not where I live; and the HS's I've seen online. They're packed to the roof with stuff for the model railroader. With stuff for HO and N scale; the dominant scales for model trains. A small area for RC. The main RC stock consists of parts; due to the frequent breakdowns. Unless I was a masochist I'd stay far away from anything to do with RC !


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## Bubba 123 (Sep 10, 2010)

A/GS said:


> Not where I live; and the HS's I've seen online. They're packed to the roof with stuff for the model railroader. With stuff for HO and N scale; the dominant scales for model trains. A small area for RC. The main RC stock consists of parts; due to the frequent breakdowns. Unless I was a masochist I'd stay far away from anything to do with RC !


I agree, in Canada, Model R/R is, & has about always been, the largest interests of these hobby genre's.....

need something 2do during the long-winters, & model R/R offers a lot of imagination w/ layouts, esp. rural/mountain landscapes.....
a lot of work/planning goes into a hobbyist's layout as well :thumbsup:

Bubba 123 slotter of; HO, 1/43, 1/32 scales.. :wave:


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## Black Oxxpurple (Jul 3, 2011)

I think that Trains lead the way, most Model Railroaders will be going to a customized online store. I know one of the biggest outlets for Lionel Trains exists and they have a web presence that is just trains, no R/C no Slots. Trains are still a big deal. 

The Slot show that I attend on a fairly regular basis had over 100 tables last spring. I bet they had over 1000 people at the show as buyers. We travel over 8 hours to attend this show. 

I think the slot numbers to be much higher than this poll shows.


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## slotcarman12078 (Oct 3, 2008)

Funny thing is... Here on HT, R/C is king. If you leave the Slots forums by clicking "hobbytalk" between the Home and Settings buttons, and then look at the number of R/C main forums, you'll see it. Slots is just one forum. Model RR is just one section of Models, and it pretty much a dead zone.

P.S. Scroll down on the R/C page, and pay attention to how many sub forums there are for each choice... :freak:


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## Ralphthe3rd (Feb 24, 2011)

Here in PA, model Railroading used to be BIG ! ....but, not anymore.And R/C is Now the King. Case in point, just down the road from me, on Rt. 35 in Oakland Mills, is a Motorcycle/ATV Shop, and about 6-8 years ago the owner got into R/C Car racing, then about 5 years ago they built a Super HUGE Dirt racetrack outside- along side their Building. WELL, today there are several hundred people there- and Vendors from Several states, as they are holding a NATIONAL R/C Car Race today. If you want to know more about them, google- Lost Creek Cycles(located in Oakland Mills PA).


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## super8man (Jan 29, 2013)

All this talk of trains has me thinking its a hobby I should try! LOL. Yeah, it sounds pretty huge compared to the stepchild that is slot cars. Oh well, at least we have each other. Bueller? Bueller?


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## Ralphthe3rd (Feb 24, 2011)

Funny you should say that last Part- super8man. As I used to be involved in motorcycles and racing them. And My Last Race Bikes were Buells ! ...which were AKA- the Red Headed Stepchild of Harley Davidson


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## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

Bueller's Day Off?


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## tasman (Feb 17, 2007)

Sorry guys, took a couple of days off. To clarify things I would consider someone active in the hobby if they met any 1 of the 4 criteria I outlined.

Interesting responses so far.


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## tasman (Feb 17, 2007)

*Mailing list*

Every 6 months I get a flyer promoting the Mid-West show near Chicago (which I have never been to) and the Show in Cleveland (Richfield). I do not know who promotes these shows but if they are on Hobby Talk I think it would be interesting to know about how many people are on their mailing lists?

If there are any other regular big shows in other parts of the country I wonder if the sponsor might indicate how many people are on their mailing lists.


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## slotcarman12078 (Oct 3, 2008)

I belong to a Facebook group that is over 2500 members strong. That's just one group of many, and it's still growing. Even if half of us slot guys didn't use Facebook, and half of them don't belong to that group, it already makes for 10,000 of us. 

We don't number in the millions any more, but we're still a size-able group.


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## 41-willys (Jan 7, 2000)

[QUOTEWe don't number in the millions any more, but we're still a size-able group.[/QUOTE] but we are for the most part old :tongue:


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## super8man (Jan 29, 2013)

Ebay would have a very good indicator of active-with-their-wallet bidders. They would be able to easily distinguish unique IDs in each of their categories and also nail it down to the zip code. They could then cross reference that with census data and see how rich or poor each of the hobbies are amongst their followers. Of course, there would still be some folks not counted since they pursue the hobby in an analogue form (in person sales, trades, etc) but I would love to see those numbers. They could also parse for those one-bid wonders and the regulars.


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## slotcarman12078 (Oct 3, 2008)

I know we're mostly old farts 41 Willys. :lol: I found this out when I posted slot car videos on Youtube in '08. I figured some cool, fairly modern Alt/Rock would be pretty hip, only to find out through Youtube's analytic that 95% of my watchers were old farts like me! :freak: Seriously, 95% were between like 48 and 62, or something like that. The other cool thing I found was that there were a bunch in Japan, Aus, NZ. Germany and the UK. For the longest time, I was a featured video which really boosted my view numbers. I haven't checked them in years... Wonder if I broke a million????


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## slotcarman12078 (Oct 3, 2008)

Darn... Says I barely broke 10,000 on two of them. Oh well, so much for being famous!! :tongue:


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

Ask Hobby Lobby...


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## Bubba 123 (Sep 10, 2010)

alpink said:


> Bueller's Day Off?


YUP!! got the Ferrari slot car & all 3 riders.. Alfaslot1 (if interested casts the body & figures.. will need detailing & modifications (hat)...)

Bubba 123 :freak:


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## tasman (Feb 17, 2007)

*Votes public*

Any moderator....
When I set this poll up I chose to have the votes be public. It was for a while. It doesn't appear to be so any longer.

One of the things I was going to do was to see who voted for each choice and try to see if there was some geographical correlation. I can't do that if I don't know who voted and for what choice.

Can it be set to be public again.


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## slotcarman12078 (Oct 3, 2008)

It wasn't changed, but now that there's a lot of voters, they have them hidden. If you click the number of voters per answer, the names are all listed.


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## tasman (Feb 17, 2007)

slotcarman12078 said:


> It wasn't changed, but now that there's a lot of voters, they have them hidden. If you click the number of voters per answer, the names are all listed.


Thank you I should have noticed that.


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## SDMedanic (Apr 21, 2011)

If there are 10,000 folk why isn't the racing in Illinois better?


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