# Why are things so dead around here lately?



## Daniel_B (Jun 28, 2016)

Feels like no body is really posting WIP builds. Activity seems to have dropped off. Is it just me?


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## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

Daniel_B said:


> Feels like no body is really posting WIP builds. Activity seems to have dropped off. Is it just me?


Well, there seems to be a bug in the ability to post pictures, and while some of the hard core pros have found ways, the simplicity and ease of the original feature is missed. That may be one factor.

Another may be there's been no big exciting kits recently. I mean kits on a par with the Seaview or Jupiter II or Enterprise. Bandai Japan keeps slowly releasing awesome Star Wars kits and that's being documented by some but really, ain't much new going on. 

And sometimes that means people just get to building and not really talking about it. 

And it's the end of summer. People may be getting in some last vacation time, or tied up with family stuff, or getting kids ready for school. 

I have confidence we'll see an uptick in activity soon enough.


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## Hunk A Junk (Jan 28, 2013)

I have been working on a summer house project, so no build time. At least model build time.


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## mach7 (Mar 25, 2002)

I just got back from a 10 day vacation, I'll get back into my Seaviews and phasers soon.


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## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

See? Right there, two of the hardest working guys building stuff like crazy, had to do some other things! 

There's a new hobby trade show in Japan at the end of Sept. so there will be new announcements to get excited about, when it gets a little cooler people will do more kit building.


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

There are lot of new buildups being posted, just not that many are appearing on Hobbytalk.

Lack of Moderators, some members going ballistic with drama, a lot of people have just stopped spending their time here. HT has turned somewhat into a ghost town.


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## jheilman (Aug 30, 2001)

And that is the way of forums. Several that I loved a decade ago are gone now.


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## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

Richard Baker said:


> There are lot of new buildups being posted, just not that many are appearing on Hobbytalk.
> 
> Lack of Moderators, some members going ballistic with drama, a lot of people have just stopped spending their time here. HT has turned somewhat into a ghost town.


I think the recent password reset kerfluffle (which I think was tied to the site being sold again?) also are factors.


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## Daniel_B (Jun 28, 2016)

Steve H said:


> I think the recent password reset kerfluffle (which I think was tied to the site being sold again?) also are factors.


Yeah, I posted here as PixelMagic for over a decade, but I couldn't get logged back in, so I registered this name about a month ago.


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## Dr. Brad (Oct 5, 1999)

The password thing didn't help, but I think the time of year is a big factor!


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## electric indigo (Dec 21, 2011)

I'm knee deep in stuff that doesn't sell too well at HT...


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## skywalker5321 (May 14, 2008)

Where (what other sites) did they go?


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

mach7 said:


> I just got back from a 10 day vacation, I'll get back into my *Seaviews* and phasers soon.


*Seaviews?* 
Yes, please!:grin2:


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## Hunk A Junk (Jan 28, 2013)

My prime build time is during the holidays because I work freelance and things slow down. I also usually ask for a couple kits from the wife for Christmas, so the end of December and January is when I'll do several weeks worth of evenings to crank out a few builds. Last January was the Eagle and it took me three weeks. I've worked off and on since then on the movie Seaview, and, of course, my long-running 1/1350 TOS E build that I was kind of waiting for new Smithsonian data to complete the paint job.


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## ClubTepes (Jul 31, 2002)

Steve H said:


> I think the recent password reset kerfluffle (which I think was tied to the site being sold again?) also are factors.


Exactly.

I, only today, redid my password.

A couple people I know, who changed their emails over the years, never got a notification.

They said screw it.

Also, when places like facebook have so many pages, with people who still moderate, its easy so see why people have left.


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## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

But Facebook is Satan's own evil playground and not to be...well. Something. 

That's curious. Is having moderators really that big a thing? I know there are times it's really helpful but there is also always the potential of heavy-handed stupidity, people throwing ban hammers for nonsense.


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## tardis1916 (Mar 24, 2004)

And I couldn't log in for a month, yet was just able to do so.

I've also been doing other genres; mainly tanks and planes.


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

Moderators are important. I have seen some excellent threads killed off due to the discussion veering into personal attacks and who wants to spend their time watching two people argue and insult each other for eleven pages? Some members have just left in disgust and frustration- they still appear on other forums so they are still out there but just don't bother coming here anymore. 
This site is on cruise control. The marketplace is sublet to an eBay wannabe that takes a cut from every sale for the honor of having been forced to use them instead of just member to member sales posting directly which has been the norm for so many years.
I do think the password reset was terribly mishandled and caused a lot of problems needlessly. I got my notice that they were going to do something two weeks after the fact. A simple popup notice (or a post in each forum for those who use blockers) ahead of time would have given people a chance to update the email addresses and/or change the password on their own before having their account becoming inaccessible.


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## Radiodugger (Sep 27, 2011)

Steve H said:


> Well, there seems to be a bug in the ability to post pictures, and while some of the hard core pros have found ways, the simplicity and ease of the original feature is missed. That may be one factor.


To see the futility of places like Photo Bucket, Flickr, etc, is just look at the number of old threads here on HT, with blank Photo Bucket posts! The whole damn thread is _useless!_ What a waste of bandwidth! That is _rampant_ here! 

HobbyTalk gives you an "attachment tool" in the advanced editing. I have used it. So have others. Those pix _are still here_, regardless of the age of the thread! So now we have to sign up for _Photo Bucket???_ I am not happy about that at all! I like to keep it "in house" so to speak. Yeah, that is _one reason_, I'm sure...



Steve H said:


> Another may be there's been no big exciting kits recently. I mean kits on a par with the Seaview or Jupiter II or Enterprise...but really, ain't much new going on.


Yep! One gets weary of companies "promising" releases, but delay after delay happens, and some have been downright shelved! I had money to spend, that I had saved for just this purpose. Then I see that some iconic models were cast with glaring errors (Seaview, Enterprise Refit, LIS Chariot)!

I said eff it. I bought a $300 Carrom Table and stand instead!










There. Satisfaction! Plus I have a Part 15 Certified radio station. I'm trying to find a decent AM transmitter. I have 2 boat anchors (Talking House). I have to break down and get an SSTRAN. Or a Hamilton Rangemaster. I'm looking at the PodCaster right now. I have to save for those...



Steve H said:


> ...people just get to building and not really talking about it.


Out of respect, no names mentioned, but there are a couple members who will not talk about their builds, or show ya tips, paint mixes or anything else. They just post pix. That's OK! But people Like Alien and Fernando are all too happy to share ideas! Thanks to Alien, I have a plan for opening hatches on the Jupiter 2!

Some folks _make a living_ from building models, professional builders. I hesitate to ask how-to, as that info is proprietary. 



Steve H said:


> I have confidence we'll see an uptick in activity soon enough.


This place has kept me busy daily! But I am also in the Die Cast Forum as well! I have too many hobbies! LOL! 

Doug


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## taneal1 (Jul 27, 2014)

Richard Baker said:


> There are lot of new buildups being posted, just not that many are appearing on Hobbytalk.


Hi Richard,

Where are these buildups being posted?

Thanks,

Tom


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## Radiodugger (Sep 27, 2011)

taneal1 said:


> Hi Richard,
> 
> Where are these buildups being posted?
> 
> ...


I think I can answer that: FaceBook! Some of us _WILL NOT_ go there! But, I am told there is a PLETHORA of model build-ups, photos, tips...hey! God Bless 'em!

Google is your friend! Here are just a few sci fi modeling sites:

All Scale Trek - Index page

Scifiantasy |

CultTVman Fantastic Modeling - The best in Science Fiction and Monster Models

Starship Modeler - Your Complete Information Source for Science Fiction, Fantasy and Real Space Scale Modeling

FineScale Modeler - Essential magazine for scale model builders, model kit reviews, how-to scale modeling, and scale modeling products

There are many, many more. I have a feeling HobbyTalk may eventually go away. What started as a passion...well, it ain't the same any more. To _own_ a site like this, one almost has to be obsessed with it. 

I know one site owner who has become bitter and cynical. Everyone's an idiot! He makes no attempt at civility! His site has practically lost most of its members! Who needs _that?_ I'm glad we don't have heavy-handed Mods here. I'd be _banned_ by now! LOL!

Doug


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

taneal1 said:


> Hi Richard,
> 
> Where are these buildups being posted?
> 
> ...


In addition to the above-
Replica Prop Forum-
General Modeling

BritModeller
Science Fiction Discussion - Britmodeller.com

Science Fiction and Fantasy Modelers UK
SFM:uk - Science Fiction & Fantasy Modellers: UK

Scale Model Addict
SCI-FI & SPACE

Resin Illuminati
Sci-Fi and Fantasy - Resin Illuminati

- those are just some of the alternate sites I visit daily. Some, like SSM are much bigger and have new posts hourly, but all have people eager to show off their buildup and custom projects.

I don't do the Facebook thing but from what I have heard there are a lot more modelling pages there if you know where to look.


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## mach7 (Mar 25, 2002)

Other sites I frequent are at a low now. I think most of the issue is the time of year. 

Having said that I have started a few build threads this month that have generated very little interest. 

Starshipmodeler. Thats a sight from the past. I used to post over there a lot until 2005. It was getting VERY cliquey 
and very of rude. 

I also got off facebook last month. WAY to much felgercarb and political bull. The ultra left and ultra right posting 
junk memes. There is some good stuff but I had to wade through way too much crap to find it.

I'll hang around here. Mostly good people who build.


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## MHaz (Aug 18, 1999)

As a decal guy (aircraft mainly), I can tell you this time of year is slow for the hobby - everyone's focused on back to school and that last summer vacation before school starts, as well. I regularly talk with the owners of other decal companies, aftermarket resin companies, and the owner of Sprue Brothers, and everyone's having a slow time of year. Building usually picks up after Halloween, once it starts to get cool out and everyone spends more time indoors.

Interestingly, for us aftermarket guys, our best sales times tend to be the weeks _after_ Christmas, when everyone's buying the aftermarket for the kits they got for Christmas.

I haven't really sat down to build much since Memorial Day, because my kids have been out of school and we've been on vacation, going to the zoo, botanical garden, six flags, neighborhood pool, etc. (and the odd Midnight Mario Kart tournament). Now that they're back in school, I'm trying to finish up a couple of models that have been on the shelf of doom and also to bang out a couple of new decal sheets (and some art for a couple of the GK manufacturers, as well).


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## Hunk A Junk (Jan 28, 2013)

Is it getting less deader? More aliver?


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## Fernando Mureb (Nov 12, 2006)

taneal1 said:


> Hi Richard,
> 
> Where are these buildups being posted?
> 
> ...


Please, don't take this as a self-promotion, ok? I am just answering the question.

Although those links are for WIP-like threads, some guys there are posting their finished models. But, I have to agree that things have been pretty calm around here since two years ago.

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/275-m...bius-1-24-chariot-better-late-than-never.html

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/275-m...ce-pod-moebius-step-step-building-thread.html

And also, try these.

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/275-m...very-moebius-j2-modelers-stopped-posting.html

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/275-moebius-models/539578-1-128-seaview-modification-lazy-style.html

On the first three links, go to the end of the threads before browsing them.


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## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

Hunk A Junk said:


> Is it getting less deader? More aliver?


I would say...alive-ish. Trending aliver.


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

Steve H said:


> I would say...alive-ish. Trending aliver.


I'm hard at work on my Moebius 1/350 Seaview. 
I'll post the final results asap. This is taking a while... and if I rush it I won't be happy. So yeah, _aliver_, for ME anyway!:laugh:


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## orbital drydock (Apr 23, 2013)

I can guarantee once the shop is up & running at full capacity(very soon!). Ya'll will start to see some "BIG" builds coming from the OD shop. I'll be posting everything here & on theRPF!


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

I am starting a build of the 1:1000 Botany Bay that larskseme sent me. This will be the first documented builds I have done since the first scratch build I did. When I get enough images worth posting I will start a new thread for it.


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## Daniel_B (Jun 28, 2016)

orbital drydock said:


> I can guarantee once the shop is up & running at full capacity(very soon!). Ya'll will start to see some "BIG" builds coming from the OD shop. I'll be posting everything here & on theRPF!


Since painting is my favorite part of model making, I look forward to seeing what you've got cooked up.


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## robiwon2 (Jun 26, 2016)

Most of those online forum links that were posted also have FB counterparts. I belong to far more FB modeling groups than to online community forums like this. And that's where I do most of my posting. Do you know there is a whole community dedicated to just lighting scifi models? Nothing else is allowed.


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## terryr (Feb 11, 2001)

Richard Baker said:


> Lack of Moderators, some members going ballistic with drama, a lot of people have just stopped spending their time here. HT has turned somewhat into a ghost town.


I've stopped going to most of the forums in my bookmarks. Why? Various reasons, but I think it boils down to the fact that this 'web surfing' is supposed to be pleasant. If some site constantly has the 'same old same old' then it's not fun. Self proclaimed experts, weirdoes, and hotheads are not fun.
Sometimes even changing the look of a site drives people away.

But also, people just move on. Over the years I stopped hanging out in many restaurants, bars, nightclubs, stores, and people. The enjoyment disappeared from these places. Did I change, or them? Probably both.

Also, 'Social Media' is taking over from forums, just as forums took over from BBS. The 'Like' system seems to be taking over the web. Post something and get a pat on the head. HT recently added the Like button as well. [all those sites should have a 'Dislike' button as well.]


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## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

terryr said:


> I've stopped going to most of the forums in my bookmarks. Why? Various reasons, but I think it boils down to the fact that this 'web surfing' is supposed to be pleasant. If some site constantly has the 'same old same old' then it's not fun. Self proclaimed experts, weirdoes, and hotheads are not fun.
> Sometimes even changing the look of a site drives people away.
> 
> But also, people just move on. Over the years I stopped hanging out in many restaurants, bars, nightclubs, stores, and people. The enjoyment disappeared from these places. Did I change, or them? Probably both.
> ...


But...but...if you have a dislike button, then you might get people clicking it just to be jerks! Then you'll get people intentionally making posts designed to be disliked! Then people will brag about how disliked they are!

I shudder at the prospect. See? I'm shuddering.


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## terryr (Feb 11, 2001)

Steve H said:


> .. Then you'll get people intentionally making posts designed to be disliked! Then people will brag about how disliked they are!


Reddit/Imgur already have many huge downvoted posts and comments. Over -9000. [under?] It is a kind of notoriety.


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## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

terryr said:


> Reddit/Imgur already have many huge downvoted posts and comments. Over -9000. [under?] It is a kind of notoriety.


I see what you did there.

Unless you didn't mean to make a meta Dragon Ball Z joke. 

But ya know, that's kind of the other problem viz. 'social media' madness. It's all so fragmented and temporary.


Remember MySpace? Ha. few do. Facebook comes along and suddenly it's 'da bomb'. Then Twitter pulls ahead. Then another, and another and another. Each strives to be the 'special' place, 100% free of the problems and issues of 'that previous place' until suddenly it's just as bad. 

Sadly, it's just basic human nature. What man creates, man corrupts. Folk who leave here for Facebook groups because it's been unpleasant recently better buckle up for the nonsense that'll erupt over the next year over there. It'll happen. It ALWAYS happens. The only bulwark against nonsense is draconian moderation, harsh and mean in itself, and THAT drives away people as well, including moderators who get sick of being 'the bad guy' because some people just can't play nice. 

So I'll be a dinosaur and hang around here as long as I have internet, just like I hang around my LiveJournal and such.

(those that left because of the password reset and the ads and all that other stuff? Justified, but you're missed)


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## Fernando Mureb (Nov 12, 2006)

I like HT. No more moderators (at least, I don't see them) and just us, whom are interested on the subject.

People that build kits but don't publish their work here are just making a self fulfilling prophecy, and when they coming here just to see that the ambient is soo calm and arid the prophecy is a reality. 

Just my two cents.


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## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

Fernando Mureb said:


> I like HT. No more moderators (at least, I don't see them) and just us, whom are interested on the subject.
> 
> People that build kits but don't publish their work here are just making a self fulfilling prophecy, and when they coming here just to see that the ambient is soo calm and arid the prophecy is a reality.
> 
> Just my two cents.


Well, it used to be a common complaint on various mailing lists I subscribed to that 'nobody' was posting anything 'interesting'. I usually countered by saying "and what are you doing to change that? How about starting a discussion on something?"

(of course 'interesting' would really mean "you're not talking about stuff *I* know about so I can say 'me too' " and boy we've seen that around here, huh?  )

Any discussion medium dies without willing and sometimes heated participants.


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## Radiodugger (Sep 27, 2011)

I have varied interests, so this place is _always_ active for me. Die Casts, Models, Dioramas, and I like Slot Cars. So, I never find it dead here! :thumbsup:

Doug


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## RetiredMSgt1701 (Nov 17, 2015)

I think part of the reason it may be dead on this part of the forum is there doesn’t seem to be a clear place to begin a thread; especially one about a WIP. Now, I am kinda new to this forum/BB/Community, but I didn’t want to end up posting my work in the wrong place. 

Also, I figured that modelers would take the summer off to vacation, take the kids to summer camp and work on outdoor projects. I would also hypothesize that there were A LOT of special interest shows happening this year – Star Trek’s 50th celebration in New York, the reveal of the TOS Enterprise 11’ production model restore (wonderful thread about that here!), Wonderfest and San Diego Comicon for Star Trek’s 50th. It is a lot of places to go and a lot of things to do during the summer.

Not to mention all of the issue mentioned above.

But one of the factors that played in it for me was the fear of the unknown and fear of non-acceptance. Would you guys like my work? Would you think I was worthy to be on the site showing my work next to yours? That kinda stuff.

That I’m even writing something shows I have partially overcome those fears (and I still haven’t show my work anywhere here) but I am working on it.

While I’m talking, is there a handy thread for new comers that says “Go here if you want to discuss something” and “Start a thread here for WIPs”? Having a FAQs page (and I may have missed it) would go along way to inviting more people to come on board. Just a thought.

I have enjoyed stalking and reading the comments; yeah, some are negative and combative but I figured one would find that anywhere, but I thought it was time to jump in and see what's going on. But, I am always willing to learn to improve my skill so Here I am!

Thanks for reading!

Steve (RetiredMSgt1701)


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## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

Well, Master Sgt, first up, welcome to the Secret Society of Steves. We're a rare, proud breed that has suffered from ridicule over the past few decades, but remember, you are always a Steve. 

As you've likely read, the overall general tone is accepting and positive. I've never seen any builds called out as 'junk' or 'weak' because the joy is in the building. 

It's pretty easy to start a thread. I'd suggest you give some thought to the subject header if you start a thread. naming a thread "help me out" or "Take a look" and then just posting a pic of a build would be poor manners. Be descriptive but concise. 

Like maybe "Building old AMT Enterprise, looking for advice". That's pretty easy to dig. 

Tell ya one thing. It can be DAMN intimidating looking as the genius builds and insane attention to detail some of the folk here are capable of doing. I know my mind is constantly blown and feelings of building inadequacy surface. Don't sweat it. You are building for YOU. Build what you like, build it the way you want it to look. Don't worry about anything else. 

Or to put it in terms: Did you know what you knew as a MSGT when you were in boot and just another private? Of course not. Did your career evolution track the same as others around you? Of course not. Everything happened based on your skill and knowledge. That's all that goes on here. Be cool. Build models. Have fun.


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## mach7 (Mar 25, 2002)

Msgt1701, Post away! we all want to see what you have.

This place has some scary talented folks, but most here are real friendly.

I've learned a lot in my time here. My builds will never reach the level that a few guys here
can do, but so what, and most people are very happy to help others.


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## Radiodugger (Sep 27, 2011)

Steve H said:


> ...Tell ya one thing. It can be DAMN intimidating looking as the genius builds and insane attention to detail some of the folk here are capable of doing. I know my mind is constantly blown and feelings of building inadequacy surface.


You got _that_ right Steve! I get very intimidated, plus, I cannot afford a lot of stuff I want. But it thrills me to see what is possible! Just look at *************'s thread! :thumbsup:

Doug


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## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

Radiodugger said:


> You got _that_ right Steve! I get very intimidated, plus, I cannot afford a lot of stuff I want. But it thrills me to see what is possible! Just look at *************'s thread! :thumbsup:
> 
> Doug


Oh, not a day goes by here where I look at something and go "dang. I could NEVER do that!" or similar. There's real true art going on. 

But I also learn things that I can apply with my limited skill. So I gain. And sometimes I have knowledge I can share and some find THAT interesting or useful. So, community. It's all good.


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## phrankenstign (Nov 29, 1999)

Steve H said:


> Well, Master Sgt, first up, welcome to the Secret Society of Steves. We're a rare, proud breed that has suffered from ridicule over the past few decades, but remember, you are always a Steve. :dude:




I think the "Secret Society of Steves" intimidates too many people around here with their subversive, bullying and strong-arm tactics. Non-Steves are too scared to post anything for fear of reprisal lest they be misinterpreted as anti-Steve sentiments to the slightest degree.


On the other hand, the "Benevolent Order of Master Sergeants" I belong to welcomes all Master Sergeants to post and to post often. All non-Master Sergeant posts are welcome too, as long as the post is well-written, interesting/entertaining, and doesn't bring disgrace by lowering the high standards we've all become accustomed to here.0


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## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

Hey, you wouldn't say that about Steve McQueen!

The Secret Society of Steves is separate from Hobbytalk, a benevolent brotherhood that all Steves belong to. Most just don't know it yet. 

Hobbytalk is just a place, maaaaaaan.


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## phrankenstign (Nov 29, 1999)

Steve H said:


> Hey, you wouldn't say that about Steve McQueen!
> 
> The Secret Society of Steves is separate from Hobbytalk, a benevolent brotherhood that all Steves belong to. Most just don't know it yet.
> 
> Hobbytalk is just a place, maaaaaaan.





I'm sorry, Mr. H. After getting a visit from a few of your members who explained things in great detail to me, I'd like to retract my previous message. The SSS is the benevolent group. They're 150% much more prestigious than the SS, and even more effective at attaining their goals. I should never have made up such foolish nonsense as my previous post. I'm sorry, yes, truly sorry. Really, I'm sorry!


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

I'd be posting about my 1/350 Moebius Seaview conversion to the eight window version, but I'd be slowed down by Photobucket, and the endless re-sculpting I'm doing on the nose is, well, _endless_... every time I make a correction I prime it & have to wait 24 hrs to re-sand & determine what it needs next. It would be almost as tedious to post pictures of it as it is to DO the damn thing. For you all to read as well. I wish we could just tack on pics from cameras without going to a photo host....


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## Daniel_B (Jun 28, 2016)

Chrisisall said:


> I'd be posting about my 1/350 Moebius Seaview conversion to the eight window version, but I'd be slowed down by Photobucket, and the endless re-sculpting I'm doing on the nose is, well, _endless_... every time I make a correction I prime it & have to wait 24 hrs to re-sand & determine what it needs next. It would be almost as tedious to post pictures of it as it is to DO the damn thing. For you all to read as well. I wish we could just tack on pics from cameras without going to a photo host....


Photobucket is garbage. use Imgur. I wish everyone on this forum would stop using Photobucket. It's terrible. Imgur is great.


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

Daniel_B said:


> Photobucket is garbage. use Imgur. I wish everyone on this forum would stop using Photobucket. It's terrible. Imgur is great.


Thanks for the tip!!


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## Dr. Brad (Oct 5, 1999)

Yeah - I'm going to have to switch too.


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

Dr. Brad said:


> Yeah - I'm going to have to switch too.


Used it instantly last night- it's so easy.:thumbsup:


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## Daniel_B (Jun 28, 2016)

Chrisisall said:


> Used it instantly last night- it's so easy.:thumbsup:


Excellent. It's also not anywhere near as slow and clunky as Photobucket.


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## Fernando Mureb (Nov 12, 2006)

How many space do they allow to start with? 

Anyway, for those who, like me, have tons of pictures already published here with links to photobucket there is no way to transfer them to any new place without breaking the links, I guess.


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## stromberg97 (Jun 7, 2015)

Imagur test shot

Seems to work great.I just took a quick picture of my wastebasket.


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## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

That is one boss trash can.


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## Radiodugger (Sep 27, 2011)

Imgur, eh? May have to look into this...

Doug


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## stromberg97 (Jun 7, 2015)

Steve H said:


> That is one boss trash can.


Thanks,Steve. If it sits still long enough,I pinstripe it. Here's an old,inactive website of mine. My wife also did a lot of striping.Hence the rude nickname,Von B
GARAGE ART & HOME DECOR


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## GSaum (May 26, 2005)

I'm back! I was someone who fell victim to the password change but finally got it figured out.


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

Fernando Mureb said:


> How many space do they allow to start with?
> 
> Anyway, for those who, like me, have tons of pictures already published here with links to photobucket there is no way to transfer them to any new place without breaking the links, I guess.


I am keeping my old Photobucket just as it is- I hate following a great older thread and finding broken links.

Anything new is going to Imgur- a far better alternative.


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## robiwon2 (Jun 26, 2016)

Testing-testing...
http://i.imgur.com/6hGndRi.jpg


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## robiwon2 (Jun 26, 2016)




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## NCC1966 (Jun 27, 2016)

This is a hell of a nice Eagle!


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## Fernando Mureb (Nov 12, 2006)

So far, this thread asking "Why are things so dead around here lately" has 63 posts and 2,824 views. Not too bad at all.


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## Daniel_B (Jun 28, 2016)

While on the subject, have you noticed activity on the board screeches to a halt after 8pm? No night owls among us?


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

Daniel_B said:


> While on the subject, have you noticed activity om the board screeches to a halt after 8pm? No night owls among us?


I'm only awake now!


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## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

Daniel_B said:


> While on the subject, have you noticed activity on the board screeches to a halt after 8pm? No night owls among us?


Is it no night owls, or is it many folk are 'borrowing' the bandwidth at work to post, so a mostly M-F 9 to 5 traffic pattern appears?


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## Zombie_61 (Apr 21, 2004)

Daniel_B said:


> While on the subject, have you noticed activity on the board screeches to a halt after 8pm? No night owls among us?


I honestly can't remember the last time I was on Hobby Talk _before_ 8:00 p.m.. Most definitely a night owl here.


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## krlee (Oct 23, 2016)

Now that I am back perhaps things will begin to pick up again. I hope that some of the other banned members find their way back.


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## krlee (Oct 23, 2016)

Seems I have to make a number of posts before I can post a link to my previous work.


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## krlee (Oct 23, 2016)

and another!


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## krlee (Oct 23, 2016)

And another,


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## krlee (Oct 23, 2016)

Here is a link showing off some of my best work from years past, some of you may remember me:

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10206079764171779.1073741834.1192467616&type=3

I am also planning on recreating a model I built 30 or so years ago, my interpretation of the Ralph McQuarrie "Planet of the Titans" USS Enterprise, the one that the USS Discovery is based on. I was never happy with the first model that I made and eventually scrapped it after a rework of it.


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## krlee (Oct 23, 2016)

I see that my old build log photos of my Gemini 12 and Space:1999 Hawk are also still here.

http://photos.hobbytalk.com/showgallery.php/cat/500/ppuser/67076/sl/k


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## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

I notice fewer and fewer paid members participating.
I wonder what THAT means?


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## Daniel_B (Jun 28, 2016)

Paid members?


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## Zombie_61 (Apr 21, 2004)

Daniel_B said:


> Paid members?


Donation/Hobby Talk Supporter


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

krlee said:


> Here is a link showing off some of my best work from years past, some of you may remember me:


OH yeah.:thumbsup:


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## mach7 (Mar 25, 2002)

krlee said:


> Now that I am back perhaps things will begin to pick up again. I hope that some of the other banned members find their way back.


Welcome back! glad to have you back. Your work is outstanding.


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## krlee (Oct 23, 2016)

mach7 said:


> Welcome back! glad to have you back. Your work is outstanding.


Thanks, now that I have my eyes fixed and I have a real job again, things are beginning to look up.


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## Fernando Mureb (Nov 12, 2006)

krlee said:


> Thanks, now that I have my eyes fixed and I have a real job again, things are beginning to look up.


Hey buddy!! :nerd: Only now I have recognized you. 

Glad to have you back here. :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## orbital drydock (Apr 23, 2013)

Since every single thread I start gets massively hijacked. I don't post builds here anymore, or hardly at all. What's the point?


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## Daniel_B (Jun 28, 2016)

orbital drydock said:


> Since every single thread I start gets massively hijacked. I don't post builds here anymore, or hardly at all. What's the point?


I personally would enjoy watching your builds.


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## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

orbital drydock said:


> Since every single thread I start gets massively hijacked. I don't post builds here anymore, or hardly at all. What's the point?


I honestly have to ask: How do you define 'hijack'?

I mean, just a quick look and all I see is pitching new products, which is fine, but if people have questions and the discussion wanders from the specifics of "I am selling this thing", is that hijacking in your eyes?

(I just didn't have the will to drill down several years)

I mean, I recall from the Usenet days, there would be people who would start a thread and get VERY angry if they got anything other than heaps of praise or 'me too' replies. I have no idea what those people actually wanted other than the obvious mindless 'following'. (this practice evolved into the Twitter/Facebook nonsense of craving 'likes' and 'followers' and crafting one's postings to try and increase same).

So, you know, post what you want. Post because you want to. If it's not giving you whatever it is you want, don't post. It's all good.


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## orbital drydock (Apr 23, 2013)

Steve H said:


> I honestly have to ask: How do you define 'hijack'?
> 
> I mean, just a quick look and all I see is pitching new products, which is fine, but if people have questions and the discussion wanders from the specifics of "I am selling this thing", is that hijacking in your eyes?
> 
> ...


It comes down to getting trolled when orders get backed up. I used to post quite a bit of build pics & help folks out with questions. I don't want, or need "heaps of praise", I also don't need to get trolled in almost every thread I start.


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## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

orbital drydock said:


> It comes down to getting trolled when orders get backed up. I used to post quite a bit of build pics & help folks out with questions. I don't want, or need "heaps of praise", I also don't need to get trolled in almost every thread I start.


Well, again, how do you define 'trolling'? If people have problems it's natural they will want to discuss them. Now, if people are being complete a**es about it because they don't know how to wait or they post from some 'randomizer' IP that screws up the order process, yeah, that's a**hat behavior and would be annoying. If there's someone who jumps in on ANY thread you're on to yell about crap, that is a troll. 

The internet is a messy stupid place lately, like the last 5 years or so. I think the positives still outweigh the negative, so far. There are plenty of good people here.


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

orbital drydock said:


> Since every single thread I start gets massively hijacked. I don't post builds here anymore, or hardly at all. What's the point?


Exactly.

You have members who post to hear themselves talk (and don't seem to have ever built a model) and add nothing of value... and when those are the type of people allowed to dominate the conversations, what's the point.

I check in every few weeks or so to see if anything has changed... when I see it hasn't, I move on.

Doing research takes time and energy. Distilling and documenting that research takes time and energy. Documenting builds and explaining techniques takes time and energy. Putting together well formatted posts that convey all of the above takes time and energy.

When this place shows it is worth that time and energy again, I'll start posting again. I got tons of stuff I _could_ post... but absolutely no reason to want to waste the time or energy of doing it here.


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

orbital drydock said:


> It comes down to getting trolled when orders get backed up. I used to post quite a bit of build pics & help folks out with questions. I don't want, or need "heaps of praise", I also don't need to get trolled in almost every thread I start.


To be honest, in my opinion I think the fact people jump on any thread you start and start discussing back orders is because you have not responded to any other attempt at communication.

I understand how complex the GR realm is and how life interferes with well made plans, I think just about any client would understand delays if the situation was to explained to them instead of just silence, if not individually then a simple thread post. 

I hate thread hijacking myself- a topic is started with a specific purpose turns into something totally different. Most irritating is when a proud builder shows off the recent project and someone chimes in with "ooo- that's nice, now here's a dozen pictures of what I did better.."

I can see a thread wandering around a bit when there is nothing new being posted from the main topic for a while but some degenerate into running jokes, insults and arguments. I for get how many great threads I have left entirely after that happened- no point sticking around


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## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

Richard Baker said:


> To be honest, in my opinion I think the fact people jump on any thread you start and start discussing back orders is because you have not responded to any other attempt at communication.
> 
> I understand how complex the GR realm is and how life interferes with well made plans, I think just about any client would understand delays if the situation was to explained to them instead of just silence, if not individually then a simple thread post.
> 
> ...


Again, it's the very 'elephant in the room' here. WHY does one post here, read here?

I assume it's for the community aspect, the fellowship of both like minds and the unexpected viewpoint. Communication, sharing, having a good time, maybe even distracting one in some small way from weightier issues. 

If one wishes to lecture, or boast, or pontificate without comment or discussion, if one is actually offended by being momentarily challenged in an idea, that one doesn't want community, they just seek attention.

There are all kinds of ways to show off without having to deal with any kind of input. An old fashioned web site, like as used to be common lets one show things off without the need of acknowledging others. I think one could even use Facebook (with comments off) for that, with the added bonus of being able to gather 'likes' and 'followers' without that messy, ugly, unwanted interaction. 

I dunno. Communities have all kinds of people. They have their ups and downs, feast and famine, good and bad. I've learned a lot in my time here. I've shared what I could, gotten praise, taken hits, laughed my a** off over some of the bizarre drama and otherwise, overall, like the place and love the people. I've seen mind blowing builds and serious hard core research work. I've learned more about the 11 foot filming miniature of the Enterprise in the last year than I've EVER read about in the past 50 years. Lordy I wish there was a book about all that stuff. 

It's a good place, Hobbytalk.


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

I agree. So, you put up with a bit of nonsense here & there... that's life. And the knowledge I gained from being here is just priceless.


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## mach7 (Mar 25, 2002)

What I've learned here FAR exceeds the bad. I like it here and I'll keep hanging around.

This is pretty much the only place I post build threads, If they drift so be it. Thats how the real world works.


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## Mark2000 (Oct 13, 2013)

Perhaps the site is visited less because it's unusable on mobile? Everytime I visit on my phone I get redirected to a popup ad that says my iphone has been randomly chosen to win $349. When I click close it takes me to a page with a roulette wheel that I can't press back from. I have to close the site. The site is fine on desktop, but I use adblocker and ghostery so I don't know other people's experience.


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

I have no issue with this site using a Droid v4.0.4 Tablet- I am using Chrome with the built in Pop-Up blocker turned on.


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## Mark2000 (Oct 13, 2013)

I'm also using adblock plus plugin in mobile Safari, but it's still happening. If it is the case that you need android or desktop level adblocking to just access the site that's a major problem.


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

You might want to try a different browser. Both Firefox and Chrome have effective ad blockers which work on this site from mobile devices, both are available to run with with the Apple OS.


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## Mark2000 (Oct 13, 2013)

That's not the point, though. Why* should* you need industrial strength adblock just to access a site?


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## Buc (Jan 20, 1999)

because it's reality??! and the world doesn't work to your specifications?

(just saying)


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

This site exists to produce money- it is not a charity. 
Some members pay to help support it but mostly ads and sponsors keep it going. It has been bought and sold several times over the past few years and the current owners are not as bad with the pop up and banner ads as earlier ones have been. 'Panjo' is sitting on top of the marketplace so if you want to sell anything you work with that eBay wannabe and let them take their cut of the sale or get creative.

We are guests in this house- the house has a mortgage and the ad/sponsor revenue pays that. Nothing is free- you do not get it for free just because you want it. 
TV programs are not made to entertain people, they exist to draw people in to watch the commercials. When not enough people watch the commercials the show is cancelled.

The ad blockers are preventing this site from generating income- they can tell when a blocker is in place. They could rework things where most blockers do not work here (like the prior owners did) or just leave it as is in place.

BTW- you do not need an 'industrial strength' ad blocker- it is just the blocker that you are using with Safari is not that good. Switch to another browser and use it's built in blocker- that is what I am doing and I have no problem.


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## Mark2000 (Oct 13, 2013)

I feel like you guys are being purposefully dense. This is not a rant about advertising. This is a redirect that seems more like a hack than purposeful part of the site that makes it inaccessible for a very large platform, if my experience is universal on iphones. But whatever. People who aren't tech savvy just won't visit.


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

It is not a matter of being purposefully dense, I am just going by what you have typed. The redirect issue seems to involve the Safari browser, just try another browser and see what happens. It is not happening with Chrome or Firefox.

If this site behavior causes people using Apple products to not visit Hobbytalk then it is the owner's loss. Problem is that there have been a lot of other things going on here on this site which have caused people to leave already and the owners do not seem to care much about it.


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## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

I think the core problem is, there's no getting around the truth that viewing a website via a smartphone is just not the same as viewing via home computer. There's been a LOT of work done by those that want to combat intrusive advertising (because remember the days of spam floods in your email, and Usenet?), so there's an actual 'culture' going on there, but smartphones, those things were BUILT to take in ads because of course when you're walking down the street you want it constantly going off to tell you of the sale at the shoe store a block away and Starbucks wants you to try another overpriced drink. 

Luckily THAT kind of thing hasn't really blossomed AS DESIRED by all parties involved (cell company charges both sender and sendee, advertisers pay for access, so on and so on) but it's growing.

So smartphones are kind of crippled when it comes to blocking. It's on purpose. 

I have Adblocker running on Firefox (Mac tower, old poor beast) and the only ad I see is Paul's for Paragrafix. I find that ad completely non-intrusive. I might suggest this should be the model for site ads but it's not HOT FRESH CUTTING EDGE HUGE INCOME GENERATIOR sooper sexay advertising which is what is in demand from advertisers. 

And anything that hijacks or force-redirects to another site is just evil and SHOULD be blocked and no whining about it. There's so MUCH malicious adware and crap out there it's just a matter of trust.


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## Buc (Jan 20, 1999)

no...the core problem is; a problem was brought up... valid and workable
solutions were then fwded...and yet the client would rather ignore said
solutions, apparently continue to experience said problems and then 
whine excessively and endlessly.


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## Mark2000 (Oct 13, 2013)

No, the core problem is someone asked why it was not as active around here as usual with a thread entitled "Why are things so dead around here lately? ". A reason why it might be so dead around here was offered with out any kind of request for advice on how to alleviate the problem, because, as a person who uses many anti ad and tracker plugins as well and anti anti ad and tracker plugins some of which I mentioned in my original post, I know exactly how to fix the problem. On top of that mountain of useless, unrequested advice, there was a tirade on capitalism, which is insanely silly because you can't sell anyone anything if you offer them an ad that completely blocks the content with no way to close it.

I was reporting a bug, a bug I can easily circumnavigate but others who are less tech savvy may not and they may be kept away from visiting the site because of it. And it seems someone with authority may have seen that report because, at the moment, I can no longer reproduce the problem. You're welcome.


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## WarpCore Breach (Apr 27, 2005)

Why is so dead here? The user demographics have changed a lot in the last 20 years, for one. Some long-time people here, for sure, but many, many are not.. either by having been banned (!) or maybe just lost interest. I do remember when this was the premiere forum to come to!

For myself.. meh. With an occasionally rare instance, I only lurk here these days. I have nothing in the works that anyone would care about; my dead-end topics that garner no notice told me that years ago. I've other sites, other forums and FB, if I feel enough to share anything. Some of the site changes that have been done (through the changing of hands) have not been that great for me as well, although I would be hard-pressed to specify exactly what those are/were right now.

That sounded far more sour grapes than intended.... sorry. My depression makes things difficult for me at times and clearly this is the case tonight. No slights were intended.


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## publiusr (Jul 27, 2006)

A lot of us are older poorer.


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## edge10 (Oct 19, 2013)

The answer is in the title. Unfortunately we are a dying breed here in the US. Kids here have Lego and video games. Very few get into scale modeling. 

We are literally dying out, like it or not.


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

As I have mentioned before, I am teaching my son how to build, to continue the tradition after I have gone. 
I believe this is the new golden age of model building. We have an incredible number of companies producing kits, some of which have been on grail lists for decades. 
We have the Internet with just about every subject, a lot of times the actual filming miniature, in close up reference. We have the people who built the actual models on line in different forums sharing insights. Ask any question on various forums and you get a number of great answers with links to build records and tutorials. We can find obscure items (like micro SMT LEDs) anywhere in the world and have them shipped directly to us.
Model kits are available for all skill levels, from the prepainted snap togethers for beginners to uberkits with hundred on tiny detail pieces. With 3D printing we have custom replacement parts available online to correct or enhance any kit and home printers are getting cheaper and more sophisticated.

When I first started building it was the dark ages. Yes, kits were a lot cheaper but you only have a small number to choose from- those were stocked in a local toy store and that was the only way to buy them. If you wanted a photo reference if you were very lucky TV Guide might have a picture, or maybe a viewmaster.

This past month we have been looking at a Star Destroyer from freakin' Russia! Not just glamour photos, but sprue shots, now some builders have those kits heading their way.

Don't give me this dying hobby crap- we have it made like no other time in the history of the hobby. If you want to prevent our numbers from decreasing, find a kid and teach them your craft.

This Site is not seeming dead because the hobby is dying off- other sites like SSM are thriving. This site has issues as a direct result of decisions that the owners have made- each of the earlier ones as well. It is on cruise control, no moderators and useful features like the trading posts have been corrupted into an eBay wannabe. Many members have been driven away out of frustration and gotten weary of the argumentative, infantile discourse derailing excellent threads (which happens without moderators stepping in before things get too far).

The hobby is not dying by any means. There problems here are unique to this site and I do not see that changing anytime in the near future.


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## edge10 (Oct 19, 2013)

Dude, denial is not just a river in Egypt. 

What I said is true, the hobby is dying here in the US. You can type a bunch of words but that doesn't take away all the hobby shops that are closing and the fact that young people these days have many more outlets for their time and creativity.


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## bigjimslade (Oct 9, 2005)

The Sci-Fi fora have serious behavioral problems that limit their usefulness. I actively follow ship modeling fora and [casually now] this Sci-Fi forum. The ship modeling fora are vibrant and the Sci-Fi fora are moribund. This difference is largely the result of level of behavior among the participants. At the risk of over-generalization:
1. The participants in ship modeling fora nearly exclusively behave as adults. In the Sci-Fi fora, many who have reached the age of majority act like babies. Resources like the Drex Files have dried up because of rectal sphincters.
2. The participants in ship modeling fora work to support each other. In the Sci-Fi fora, knifings in the back are rampant. 
3. Ship modeling fora serve to exchange information. If you ask for measurements on a Fletcher class destroyer in a ship modeling forum the folks who know will send you an email with 10mb of Excel tables of offsets. In the Sci-Fi fora, the folks who know tend to share just enough information to let you know they know and that's it. One of my first questions on this forum many years ago was about focusing LEDs. The responses I got were variants of "I know how to do it but it's a trade secret."

4. Many of the Sci-Fi fora suffer from Attila the Hun moderation.

Consequently, there has been a huge increase in the quality of ship kits just over the past ten years while Sci-Fi kits have barely improved over the Aurora kits of the 1960's.


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## KUROK (Feb 2, 2004)

edge10 said:


> Dude, denial is not just a river in Egypt.
> 
> What I said is true, the hobby is dying here in the US. You can type a bunch of words but that doesn't take away all the hobby shops that are closing and the fact that young people these days have many more outlets for their time and creativity.



Enjoy it while it lasts, then, like anything else...


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## edge10 (Oct 19, 2013)

KUROK said:


> Enjoy it while it lasts, then, like anything else...


Absolutely! Some awesome kits are coming out that I have wanted for quite some time.

I will also think of people who are no longer with us, who made this hobby a better place.


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## krlee (Oct 23, 2016)

bigjimslade said:


> 4. Many of the Sci-Fi fora suffer from Attila the Hun moderation.


This forum suffered through that around the time of the release of Star Trek: Into Darkness. For some reason, the then moderator here started banning anyone who dared to voice anything but praise for the JJ Trek series. In one day we lost at least four great artists and modelers simply because they made multiple comments against JJ Abrams and his version of Trek. When that happened I decided to leave and I announced my intentions, letting those who wanted to follow my future builds know that they could see them on facebook. I started deleting my posts and photos, before I got halfway through I also found myself banned and was informed by the moderator that since that I had announced my departure yet was still here deleting my posts that I was being booted out. When I pointed out that I had not violated any of the forum rules, including his arbitrary rules about JJ Trek, he informed me that since I wanted to leave anyway, he was just helping me with that. The only reason that I came back is that he rarely shows up here anymore.


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

krlee said:


> This forum suffered through that around the time of the release of Star Trek: Into Darkness. For some reason, the then moderator here started banning anyone who dared to voice anything but praise for the JJ Trek series. In one day we lost at least four great artists and modelers simply because they made multiple comments against JJ Abrams and his version of Trek.


Wow, I remember that. 
I'm back because like the cat who came back, I couldn't stay away.:grin2:


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## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

bigjimslade said:


> The Sci-Fi fora have serious behavioral problems that limit their usefulness. I actively follow ship modeling fora and [casually now] this Sci-Fi forum. The ship modeling fora are vibrant and the Sci-Fi fora are moribund. This difference is largely the result of level of behavior among the participants. At the risk of over-generalization:
> 1. The participants in ship modeling fora nearly exclusively behave as adults. In the Sci-Fi fora, many who have reached the age of majority act like babies. Resources like the Drex Files have dried up because of rectal sphincters.
> 2. The participants in ship modeling fora work to support each other. In the Sci-Fi fora, knifings in the back are rampant.
> 3. Ship modeling fora serve to exchange information. If you ask for measurements on a Fletcher class destroyer in a ship modeling forum the folks who know will send you an email with 10mb of Excel tables of offsets. In the Sci-Fi fora, the folks who know tend to share just enough information to let you know they know and that's it. One of my first questions on this forum many years ago was about focusing LEDs. The responses I got were variants of "I know how to do it but it's a trade secret."
> ...


I understand what you're saying and on the basic level can't disagree in the general but I do disagree on what I see as the specific. I'm reading that you seem to tie a correlation between board behavior and kit production and I just don't see that. I can't make the connection that a more polite and civilized fandom equates more/better kits. 

The connection I DO make is ship building is now such a minor and boutique subarm of plastic kit building that it's become more insular and 'clubby', reminding me of what's going on in the science fiction 'book world', the world of Worldcon and other cons specifically dedicated to only the print medium. Traditions honed over decades strongly held, a 'culture' that in some ways is ossified but stable. There's not a lot of growth within the community. 

SF Kit building is partially informed by the growth of SF media fandom which is still somewhat a 'wild west' as new media I.P. appears, grows, explodes, fades, then the Next Thing shows up and the fandoms simmer and distill to a 'base level' while new people flood in for that New Thing. 

It helps we're living in a Sci Fi world, of course. 

(because to an Old Phart like me I derive huge amusement from people claiming Ultimate Star Trek Fannish streetcred who weren't even born until the '90s and Star Wars, don't even get me started on Star Wars  )

The problem with a thriving fan culture is, of course, the newbs don't KNOW the culture. And sadly, in our modern 'instant gratification isn't fast enough!' world there's no desire to modify their poor social skills (skills honed in the mayfly world of social media).

If we are the Old Guard (like the SF fans who have attended every Worldcon since the '60s) then it is up to us to live the example we wish to see. We tend to not do that. Too many seem to feel matching the level of those that are troublesome, matching petty for petty, unable to actually engage in dialog and so on, THAT is your death of a BBS. Giving up. Quitting. Bitching about a sidetrack in a thread while never actually doing a thing to steer it back, contribute, so on. 

Both Richard and Edge are correct. It's just they're really discussing two completely separate things that are tied deep within the context of the discussion. It's like they're shouting "It's a BREATH MINT not a candy mint" while the other says "It's NOT A CANDY MINT it's a breath mint!"

See how that works? Lots of heat, but if they STOPPED a moment, THOUGHT about what the other was actually saying (and not skimming or assuming) they would see they are, indeed, on the same 'side' of the discussion. 

Myself, I'm glad this specific thread is here. I think it's healthy.


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## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

So I mentioned 'where we are' Where ARE we? SF kit building is at the place where Comic Books were just after the big 'Black and white comic' bust in the late '80s. 

At the mid '80s, when Batman the Dark Knight Returns and Watchmen came out, there were two major comic distributors and several minor ones, two major publishers and many small ones and over 10,000 comic book stores spread across the USA. The Black and White comic boom, also known as the Indy publishing boom, was fueled by crazy speculation, crappy $2.00 comic books commanding hundreds of bucks for NO GOOD REASON WHATSOEVER other than somebody said it was 'rare' and collectable and mannn, all that talk of $10,000 Spider-Man or Superman comics found in an attic just ignited greed like nothing seen this side of the Great Tulip boom of the 1600s. (seriously, if you've never read about this amazing part of Western history you should, it would frighten you and make you stay far away from, say Magic or Pokemon cards and the like! The Dutch "Tulip Mania" Bubble (aka "Tulipomania") | )

Soon many comic book stores had 'crazy valuable' comics, supposedly worth thousands of Dollars sitting on their walls, cases or special boxes. Selling one of those books would be worth an entire week's worth of general merchandise and weekly comics. At the same time Marvel and DC started to flood the comic racks with product to 'push out' those indy produced comics. Stores had to spend more and more money to keep up with the flood. But the fandom couldn't support all that product. People do have limits to their 'entertainment' budget. The 'new' fans who came in looking for that Boris the Bear #1 didn't come back to look for issue #2, let along the 5 new Batman books or the 8 new X-Men books. 

By the end of the '80s the crash took its toll. Eventually it became one distributor, the Big Two, a couple of indy publishers and maybe 3,000 comic shops across the country. 

So now comic shops seek other 'low cost high profit' items. Pokemon cards. Star Wars miniatures. Funko POP vinyl figures. and there's twice as many comics published by the Big Two now then they had at the height of the '80s bubble, and they cost more, and the success of the Marvel movies are NOT bringing in people looking to read comics and San Diego Comic Con shoves all its comic related stuff into the side halls...

How does that relate to us? Look how few hobby shops are left. Look at what all the shops try to sell to keep the doors open because kits can't carry the freight by themselves anymore. Look at the prices of kits, surely a huge barrier to 'entry level' if I ever saw it. And which direction are our 'Big Two' going? A new tool Eagle kit in a smaller scale, aiming for an under $20 pricepoint? A shelf friendly Jupiter II, again in the $20 range? Ohhhhhh no, no. big kits are the thing. Big, expensive kits. Kits that stores will only order, not stock in any depth. And how does a 'casual' fan even find out about them? 

So, yeah. Enjoy what you want while you can. It's a fun time now.


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

*I am dinosaur, hear me ROAR! *
Hahahahahah!!!


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## Newbie123 (Sep 7, 2016)

Steve H said:


> The connection I DO make is ship building is now such a minor and boutique subarm of plastic kit building


Don't know about your hobby shops, but in ours, there is easily 4 times the shelf space devoted to ships as there is to sf and realspace put together. Hobbyshops in general bring in what sells or they soon go out o bidness. Check out the Squadron catalogue and compare category selections. Very rare to see a sf or realspace sj in any major general modelling magazine, tho' ships and ship ads appear all over the place. If there is a subset of modelling that is minor it's us. 

Otherwise, have to agree with BigJim. What he says about ship builder forums holds generally holds true for aircraft, military, real space and rocketry forums as well, I've found. I was stunned when starting to research WWI lozenge camouflage paint schemes to see the amount of work various modellers had done not only in researching but in freely sharing everything they'd done. Same in sharing printed wraparounds for a flying 1/72 Saturn IB. There's a level of cooperation and craftsmanship in other areas of modelling that seems a given. It does exist in sf modelling, but it's much more rare. Maybe it's part of the fandom/collectibles mentality?


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## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

Newbie123 said:


> Don't know about your hobby shops, but in ours, there is easily 4 times the shelf space devoted to ships as there is to sf and realspace put together. Hobbyshops in general bring in what sells or they soon go out o bidness. Check out the Squadron catalogue and compare category selections. Very rare to see a sf or realspace sj in any major general modelling magazine, tho' ships and ship ads appear all over the place. If there is a subset of modelling that is minor it's us.
> 
> Otherwise, have to agree with BigJim. What he says about ship builder forums holds generally holds true for aircraft, military, real space and rocketry forums as well, I've found. I was stunned when starting to research WWI lozenge camouflage paint schemes to see the amount of work various modellers had done not only in researching but in freely sharing everything they'd done. Same in sharing printed wraparounds for a flying 1/72 Saturn IB. There's a level of cooperation and craftsmanship in other areas of modelling that seems a given. It does exist in sf modelling, but it's much more rare. Maybe it's part of the fandom/collectibles mentality?


Without getting too specific, do you by chance happen to live on or near a place that has an operational navel base or a port city? Here in the wilds of Michigan it's cars, cars cars. 

OK, the helpfulness and sharing of information. I would posit it's a 'fandom' thing, a carryover from the early days of Star Trek fandom where people built their entire lifetime ego structure on 'being the guy who knows the secret things'. Now, many times that 'keeper of the secrets' was pulling complete and total bulls**t on fans, but in the dim past of the pre-internet days one could get away with it. 

Everyone wants to look up to someone who knows more than they do. It's a natural reaction. Of course it quickly becomes a burden when one answers the exact same questions over and over, and nobody ever does even a little work to understand, grasp the context.

A variant of that is the "I have access to something that you don't", a type of fannish hubris made famous in the Japanese Animation community. Again, some considered themselves 'Big Name Fans' because they may have had a pen-pal in Japan sending them videotapes of the current anime shows, or they happen to spend INSANE amounts of money importing giant, heavy, expensive Laser Disc collections. This attitude ("bow before me if you want some tapes!") just permeated California anime fandom (there were some who rebelled against that mindset but not many) but the East Coast fandom completely subverted that. And of course now you can watch just about anything via legal streaming or various less legal download sites.


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## Zombie_61 (Apr 21, 2004)

krlee said:


> This forum suffered through that around the time of the release of Star Trek: Into Darkness. For some reason, the then moderator here started banning anyone who dared to voice anything but praise for the JJ Trek series. In one day we lost at least four great artists and modelers simply because they made multiple comments against JJ Abrams and his version of Trek. When that happened I decided to leave and I announced my intentions, letting those who wanted to follow my future builds know that they could see them on facebook. I started deleting my posts and photos, before I got halfway through I also found myself banned and was informed by the moderator that since that I had announced my departure yet was still here deleting my posts that I was being booted out. When I pointed out that I had not violated any of the forum rules, including his arbitrary rules about JJ Trek, he informed me that since I wanted to leave anyway, he was just helping me with that. The only reason that I came back is that he rarely shows up here anymore.


I assume that moderator left with the previous owners. The last time Hobby Talk changed hands the new owners initially made a bit of a show of being interested in what we, the members, wanted and expected from this forum, but they soon disappeared and, to my knowledge, haven't been seen here since.


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## Newbie123 (Sep 7, 2016)

And there is another part to the quietude, I suspect: all the kits we've ever wanted have been released. I discovered Starship and HT just at the time the PL 1/350 refit had been released, and these were wonderful places to be. There was an excitement, there were builders galore, there were ideas and techniques and builds shared that were so inspiring and helpful. There was an almost coinciding 10 year period when just about every kit from the 50s and 60s was re-released, photoetch and leds were discovered by modellers, and shortly after that, almost every kit that should have been made in the 60s was finally released. About the only sf kits left to box that would appeal to modellers in any significant number are a couple decent-sized Star Wars icons and a few 2001 subjects. Soon even those may be on their way. And that will be it. 

Except for Star Wars perhaps, all of these kits were the dreams of fans of 60s movies and tv. Really, how many of us are there? And once we got all our grails and got them built, who is going to build another one, unless we start on seconds and thirds? The 50s and 60s were the golden age of sf/real space/future-space kits and the last 15 years were a very close silver age. But our silver age has already ended. A few more fun things to come, to be sure, but nothing like the 1/350 ST heyday, or Moebius's Lost in Space and Voyage period. But what fun it was while it lasted.


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## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

Newbie123 said:


> And there is another part to the quietude, I suspect: all the kits we've ever wanted have been released. I discovered Starship and HT just at the time the PL 1/350 refit had been released, and these were wonderful places to be. There was an excitement, there were builders galore, there were ideas and techniques and builds shared that were so inspiring and helpful. There was an almost coinciding 10 year period when just about every kit from the 50s and 60s was re-released, photoetch and leds were discovered by modellers, and shortly after that, almost every kit that should have been made in the 60s was finally released. About the only sf kits left to box that would appeal to modellers in any significant number are a couple decent-sized Star Wars icons and a few 2001 subjects. Soon even those may be on their way. And that will be it.
> 
> Except for Star Wars perhaps, all of these kits were the dreams of fans of 60s movies and tv. Really, how many of us are there? And once we got all our grails and got them built, who is going to build another one, unless we start on seconds and thirds? The 50s and 60s were the golden age of sf/real space/future-space kits and the last 15 years were a very close silver age. But our silver age has already ended. A few more fun things to come, to be sure, but nothing like the 1/350 ST heyday, or Moebius's Lost in Space and Voyage period. But what fun it was while it lasted.


Very good! VERY good! And it holds with my comic book analogy.

I've been trying to rack my brain for what might be considered 'holy grail' kits (defined as "never kitted in stryene plastic as a commercial release")* and then the "it would be nice if they" (defined as a subject that has been released in the past as a plastic kit but in need of significant upgrading, correction or other improvement including scale)* kit list, and I think MOST of what people are waiting for fall into that second category. 

(Large Spindrift. New tool Galileo shuttlecraft. New tool Hawk. 1/1000 Enterprise-D. and so on)

My mind is all muddled now but the only true 'grail' kits I can think of would be Discovery from 2001, Valley Forge from Silent Running and the spaceship from the original Planet of the Apes. (pay attention, this means injection molded plastic released to the mainstream commercial marketplace. Garage kits of any material do not count)

Naturally there's a TON of subjects that are potential kits, it's just a case of diminishing returns, reaching to more and more esoteric. 

For example, would the 4-seat space fighter from Buck Rogers count as a 'grail' (never kitted) or as a 'would be nice' (it's just a variation of the stock 2-seat fighter that Monogram released)?







*note, these are my personal definitions, they may not match yours


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## Proper2 (Dec 8, 2010)

Steve H said:


> I've been trying to rack my brain for what might be considered 'holy grail' kits (defined as "never kitted in stryene plastic as a commercial release")* and then the "it would be nice if they" (defined as a subject that has been released in the past as a plastic kit but in need of significant upgrading, correction or other improvement including scale)* kit list, and I think MOST of what people are waiting for fall into that second category.
> 
> (Large Spindrift. New tool Galileo shuttlecraft. New tool Hawk. 1/1000 Enterprise-D. and so on)
> 
> ...


I would add the SS Botany Bay at 1/350 in scale with the TOS Holy Grail that we have all fawned over for so long and so exuberantly. The original BB filming model is the only one to ever be filmed with, and the only miniature made to scale to, the 11-footer! The Fantastic Plastic resin kit is pretty good but lacks in accuracy, detail, and is actually about an inch too long for correct scale.


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## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

Proper2 said:


> I would add the SS Botany Bay at 1/350 in scale with the TOS Holy Grail that we have all fawned over for so long and so exuberantly. The original BB filming model is the only one to ever be filmed with, and the only miniature made to scale to, the 11-footer! The Fantastic Plastic resin kit is pretty good but lacks in accuracy, detail, and is actually about an inch too long for correct scale.


That's a great 'would be nice' kit. Don't forget the tiny 1/1000 plastic model that 'refreshed' the 1/1000 scale Enterprise. 

I do think that the Botany Bay is as esoteric (to the mainstream) as the Moebius 'Lost in Space Derelict' model. 

I think there might be debate that the Tholian ship may have been built to the same scale as the 11 foot model.


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## bigjimslade (Oct 9, 2005)

Steve H said:


> I understand what you're saying and on the basic level can't disagree in the general but I do disagree on what I see as the specific. I'm reading that you seem to tie a correlation between board behavior and kit production and I just don't see that. I can't make the connection that a more polite and civilized fandom equates more/better kits.


That is one symptom. In the ship fora there is serious discussion about accuracy and construction. These boards simply do not provide kit manufacturers with a resource for improvement as the ship model fora do for that segment. The kit manufacturers follow those fora and learn. This is a golden age for ship modelers.

I'll use the PL 1:350 Refit as a benchmark here. Compare it to, for example, a Tamiya 1:350 Enterprise with the Polar Lights 1:350 Refit (which came years later). The Tamiya is much more advanced engineering and assembly-wise, even though it came out years earlier. In the ship modeling world, there simply isn't anything that has come out in years that approaches the level of quality of the PL 1:350 refit. A model of equivalent quality in the ship modeling world would be called "a bathtub toy."

Again, this is just one symptom. How many serious builders have "we" driven off this board due to bad behavior over the years? There are those who worked on ST who are active on ship modeling fora but forsake Sci-Fi boards.

Let me add a related item as to why so dead. A few years ago when this forum had Attila the Moderator, I showed my teenage nephew this site. He had a question so I helped him create a user ID and he asked his very reasonable question using my computer. Shortly thereafter, Attila sent me and my nephew (who had returned home by then) nasty emails going crazy over why we had posted using the same IP address. I found out about it when I got a call from his father that my nephew was in shock—and my nephew never came back here.

While the activity level is lower, IMHO, the level of behavior here has been much elevated since the forum became effectively unmoderated.


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## Proper2 (Dec 8, 2010)

Steve H said:


> That's a great 'would be nice' kit. Don't forget the tiny 1/1000 plastic model that 'refreshed' the 1/1000 scale Enterprise.
> 
> I do think that the Botany Bay is as esoteric (to the mainstream) as the Moebius 'Lost in Space Derelict' model.
> 
> I think there might be debate that the Tholian ship may have been built to the same scale as the 11 foot model.


Yeah, I don't view the 1/1000 "refresher" kit as anything remotely serious or desirable in terms of either the Enterprise or the tiny BB. It's kind of a practical joke kit, me thinks. A quick and easy way for the manufacturer to make a buck. 

Not sure if the Tholian ship was filmed with the Enterprise. I could be wrong but more than likely it was shot separately. And hard to slap a scale on that ship, as well. I would love to know more about that miniature. I think I've heard that it was between 12 and 15 inches?


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## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

Proper2 said:


> Yeah, I don't view the 1/1000 "refresher" kit as anything remotely serious or desirable in terms of either the Enterprise or the tiny BB. It's kind of a practical joke kit, me thinks. A quick and easy way for the manufacturer to make a buck.
> 
> Not sure if the Tholian ship was filmed with the Enterprise. I could be wrong but more than likely it was shot separately. And hard to slap a scale on that ship, as well. I would love to know more about that miniature. I think I've heard that it was between 12 and 15 inches?


Well, again, good or bad, I do have to give credit to Polar Lights/R2 for doing it. They didn't have to. Myself, I'm not too thrilled by how much a price bump the 1/1000 Enterprise took for that little bit of extra plastic...

AFAIK the Tholian wasn't filmed with the 11 foot Enterprise, that was all done with 'photograph animation'. If you look up the '70s War of the Worlds TV series promo film you can see the S.S. Aurora 'live' with George Pal and others. Between 12 and 15 inches seems right, the AMT Enterprise nacelles grafted on don't seem 'wrongly proportioned' so, yeah.


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

bigjimslade said:


> A few years ago when this forum had Attila the Moderator, I showed my teenage nephew this site. He had a question so I helped him create a user ID and he asked his very reasonable question using my computer. Shortly thereafter, Attila sent me and my nephew (who had returned home by then) nasty emails going crazy over why we had posted using the same IP address. I found out about it when I got a call from his father that my nephew was in shock—and my nephew never came back here.
> 
> *While the activity level is lower, IMHO, the level of behavior here has been much elevated since the forum became effectively unmoderated.*


I must agree. In the past I saw many bannings that were kind of unwarranted. I still miss some of them.


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

I do not let my son on this forum due to some threads turning into infantile tantrums, with personal attacks and cursing. I am not talking about that one member who had his log in hijacked by a neighborhood kid, but regular members who let emotions get away from them. It has not happened recently but the fact it happened at all causes me concern. This is what happens when there is zero oversight on a forum.
I am not saying all Moderators were good, I have seen things go needlessly nuclear on more than one occasion. What we have here is a schoolyard full of people and no teacher. Typically things go well, but fights do break out and people leave.

When I first lurked then joined this forum was thriving. Now it is a ghost town- only occasionally there is a subject which gets enough attention (like Round 2 cancelling the Galileo) that gets flurry of posts, mostly when I log in now the same recent posts are still there waiting for someone to chime in. I do not know the total of active members now, but it is only a fraction of what it was eight years ago. What we have here is a site on cruise control generating revenue for the owners with advertising and that stupid Panjo. Visit other modeling sites and see how things are going there. SSM/RPF/BM all have members sharing and contributing- new posts whenever you log in. This forum is not doing badly because of the hobby, it is doing badly because of choices made coming home to roost.


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## bigjimslade (Oct 9, 2005)

Richard Baker said:


> What we have here is a schoolyard full of people and no teacher. Typically things go well, but fights do break out and people leave.


My observation is there have been fewer fights sans moderation. 

Sadly, so many people have been driven away already that this place will never recover to where it was.

People here need to stop taking things so personally. If A says " I think the ship in ________ is the greatest thing ever" and B says 
"I think the ship in ________ is the ugliest thing ever made," B should not take this as a personal attack by A—but that frequently happens around here.

That is a problem with Sci-Fi fora in general; not just this one. 

The telling thing is that the people who actually worked on these movies and shows participated in this and other fora at one time but have ben driven away.


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