# Differances between ST II Refit and ST III refit



## caesar4u (Apr 13, 2005)

Hello everyone,

I wanted to ask if there were any paint differances aside from "extra battle damage" on the ST II enterprise and the ST III enterprise? The reason I ask is when the Enterprise in escaping from the Excelsior in Search for Spock, the engineering aztec "engineering green" looks like a light sea grey, were some colors changed? Thanks guys.


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## Ziz (Feb 22, 1999)

Sometimes you gotta chalk up these color changes to real world issues like different film stocks, different lighting and color balance filters used in FX compositing.

Don't get obsessed with the _mechanics_ of model building. Learn to throw technicalities to the wind once in a while and rely on common sense.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

I'm guessing they're the same. But it is notable that something like 10 years is supposed to have passed between the films.


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## caesar4u (Apr 13, 2005)

What paint and what color do you guys recomend for he engineering green? I'm trying to get the look of ST II and III, minus the battle damage.


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## caesar4u (Apr 13, 2005)

Gentleman, I think I found the color I need, check this out, make sure to check the pictures:

http://www.trekmania.net/art/constitution_refit.htm


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## mactrek (Mar 30, 2004)

John P said:


> I'm guessing they're the same. But it is notable that something like 10 years is supposed to have passed between the films.


Between TMP and TWOK ... Yes. 
Between TWOK and TSFS ... No. More like a couple of weeks.


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## spe130 (Apr 13, 2004)

John, 10 years between STII and STIII? STII-STIV is supposed to take place in less than a year, with STV shortly thereafter. There are big time jumps between TMP and STII, and STV and STVI.

TMP: 2271
STII: 2285
STIII: (obviously between 2285-2286)
STIV: 2286
STV: 2287
STVI: 2293
GEN: (from the synopsis, later in 2293)

All of those dates are from the official movie synopses at startrek.com -- and note that the Refit 1701 served in various capacities for 15 years...while the Alpha only made it through 7 years of service.


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## caesar4u (Apr 13, 2005)

Hello everyone,

The refit and the A were great, but it is true the refit had quite a bit more service. The paint i'm trying to match is how the refit looked in ST III, with out damage. A hypothetical repair and refit. I'm looking at the DVD when the E comes inside spacedock and you can see people in a lounge and a red hed lady shaking her head. That's an excellent shot of the detail. Also when the Klingon bird of prey and the E are face to face. Any and all sugestions are appreciated.


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## JGG1701 (Nov 9, 2004)

John P said:


> I'm guessing they're the same. But it is notable that something like 10 years is supposed to have passed between the films.


    
Really ?


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## JGG1701 (Nov 9, 2004)

caesar4u said:


> Gentleman, I think I found the color I need, check this out, make sure to check the pictures:
> 
> http://www.trekmania.net/art/constitution_refit.htm


Dang that's a great site !
Thanks ! :thumbsup:


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## caesar4u (Apr 13, 2005)

Here are a few shots of what I'd like to do:
http://www.trekconnection.com/pictures/ST_3/PICTURES/09122002091330.jpg
http://www.trekconnection.com/pictures/ST_3/PICTURES/09122002091316.jpg
http://www.trekconnection.com/pictures/ST_3/PICTURES/09122002094308.jpg
http://www.trekconnection.com/pictures/ST_3/PICTURES/09122002094446.jpg
http://www.trekconnection.com/pictures/ST_3/PICTURES/09122002100545.jpg


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## JGG1701 (Nov 9, 2004)

Everyone is going to have their own interpatation of what their refit is going to look like. Me included. I as well as others are going to try and get this wonderful model as close to the movie(s) as we can get.
I say good luck everyone ! :thumbsup:
P.S.
Don't forget to post pics. PLEASE !


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## caesar4u (Apr 13, 2005)

Glad you liked it JGG1701, It reminded me of the Polar Lights NX-01 color chart alot. I really think this gentleman deserves alot of credit that made it. Do you guys think the deflector housing had the engineering green in differant shades alone or was there indeed blue as well during ST II and III? 

I will definetly post and look forward to seeing your models everyone, I think it's a deserving and meaningful thing that we do justice to the refit and A, let's do it.

I will be doing the refit E first then the ST IV Voyage home A, no sef destruct. Too painful...


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## omnimodel (Oct 9, 2004)

caesar4u said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> The refit and the A were great, but it is true the refit had quite a bit more service. The paint i'm trying to match is how the refit looked in ST III, with out damage. A hypothetical repair and refit. I'm looking at the DVD when the E comes inside spacedock and you can see people in a lounge and a red hed lady shaking her head. That's an excellent shot of the detail. Also when the Klingon bird of prey and the E are face to face. Any and all sugestions are appreciated.


Is your goal to make your model look like it did on screen, or paint it the same color as the studio model? Judging by those screen shots, you could probably come very close using Testors Light Ghost Gray and Dark Ghost Gray. 

As for what color the studio model was at the time, it was a mixture of various shades of blues... lighting and film stocks made it appear gray on screen

This article should cover many of your questions:

http://www.culttvman.com/building_the_refit_enterprise_8.html

As for the engineering green, you may want to look into Tamiya's JN Gray. It is gray with a greenish tint underneath, particularly when wet sanded.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

mactrek said:


> Between TMP and TWOK ... Yes.
> Between TWOK and TSFS ... No. More like a couple of weeks.


 Whoops! Correct. My bad.


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## haro genki (Apr 13, 2005)

caesar4u said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> I wanted to ask if there were any paint differances aside from "extra battle damage" on the ST II enterprise and the ST III enterprise? The reason I ask is when the Enterprise in escaping from the Excelsior in Search for Spock, the engineering aztec "engineering green" looks like a light sea grey, were some colors changed? Thanks guys.


Judging from the ways the ship looked between TMP and and TSFS, the TSFS version looks like it had a very flat finish, almost having no gloss at all... whereas the TMP Enterprise had a very reflective gloss finish on it... TWOK's version was kinda in the middle, having some gloss early on in the movie (I'm referring to the scenes of the Enterprise approaching the Reliant... I know the drydock scenes are reused from TMP), but looking more flat as the movie progressed.


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## caesar4u (Apr 13, 2005)

Thanks guys, wow the JN Grey looks dead on for what I'm looking for in the "engineering" green, much beter than light sea grey. Definetly more of a flat color. Any more suggestions guys?


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## mactrek (Mar 30, 2004)

John P said:


> Whoops! Correct. My bad.


No sweat, man ... It sure don't happen often!!


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## caesar4u (Apr 13, 2005)

I definetly would like the ship to appear as the studio model, minus the battle damage. I intend to display in the dark and when lit with lights and spot lights ( which I know how to do thanks to Kung Wu Lee ) should look like on film. 

I'm going to grab Starfleet assembly Manual #4 to see what Probert has to say about the paint. Any of you guys have this. So, there IS blue and engineering green in the engineering hull in the refit configuration, ST II and Search for Spock? Which areas, is it as on the first link I posted in this topic or differant, please tell me. Thanks !


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## irocer (Aug 22, 2000)

My question on paint is for the TMP version. I remember back then a discussion on the "metallic" look the ship had. It was attributed to it being "new"-ly refitted. The customary greay of TOS were some type of thermal coating. So is the TMP unpainted(metallic) vs. later painted (white/pearlesant)ST-TWOK thru ST-6?


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## alpha-8 (Oct 31, 1999)

irocer said:


> My question on paint is for the TMP version. I remember back then a discussion on the "metallic" look the ship had. It was attributed to it being "new"-ly refitted. The customary greay of TOS were some type of thermal coating. So is the TMP unpainted(metallic) vs. later painted (white/pearlesant)ST-TWOK thru ST-6?


Close, however, the pearlesant detailing pertains to the TMP Enterprise. Check this site out:

http://www.olsenart.com/strek.html

This is written by the guy who actually painted the Enterprise for the first movie.

Dave


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## xr4sam (Dec 9, 1999)

Well, remember that the Big E spent a lot of time in a nebula, which would have left her paint looking sandblasted. No deflectors to keep the gas and sediment-for lack of a better term- from dulling down her hull.

FWIW, YMMV...


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## Steven Coffey (Jan 5, 2005)

I have an answer to the paint problem.This is what I have read ,when the Enterprise came to ILM for them to shoot WOK the studio lights reflected off the pearl paints ,and that caused holes in the mask .So they repainted it with duller colors .I forgot where I read this but I find it I will post a link.


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## omnimodel (Oct 9, 2004)

Steven Coffey said:


> I have an answer to the paint problem.This is what I have read ,when the Enterprise came to ILM for them to shoot WOK the studio lights reflected off the pearl paints ,and that caused holes in the mask .So they repainted it with duller colors .I forgot where I read this but I find it I will post a link.


It was mentioned both on the Olsenart website, and the article DLM has posted on the CultTvMan site. If anyone if interested, the links to both appear earlier in this thread. Highly recommended reading... it's truly fascinating to see all the work that went into the original paint job.


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## TrekFX (Apr 15, 2004)

The impression I got from the numerous articles, photographs and contemporary inspection is that the hit the girl with a coat of clear "dulling". The original glorious pearl paint job is there for the most part, and shows up a bit in photos when lit just right.

Areas that were actual repainted include the 3, 6 and 9 oclock segments of the secondary hull. Aparently there was damge in these locations. There is a distinct difference in the "structure" of the panels from the original, not so much "mechanical" look and more of a random-masked thing.


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## irocer (Aug 22, 2000)

I remember reading the article by one of the painters, but I still get confused about it. To me the right look may not always be the right color (scale color sometimes), the eye is more accurate than the brain at times. The TMP ship metallic I see/saw is from color and not sheen. I see burnt metal, copperish, brown hues and all sorts of steel shades- this is very different than later movie looks. At least thats what my eyes tell my brain. I wish I could have seen the original paint job so that I could compare with the model I saw at the Smithsonian in '92, which was had the white/pearl colors. Colors are very confusing at times. At my work white is really not just white, I know of at least 30-40 different shades we use- but their all white.


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## jgoldsack (Apr 26, 2004)

wow that JN green does look really good. I am going to use that on my "test subject" AMT Enterprise to see how it looks.

Personally, I like the paint scheme of TWOK over TMP. Sure, TMP was the first, but IMO, it just looks way too shiny and new. I am going to make mind to more closely follow TWOK colors.


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## Ignatz (Jun 20, 2000)

I had planned on using Tamiya's J.N. Green for the engineering section. IMHO, it would make the perfect basecoat. Great hull color (with a little bit of flat white) for the TOS E too.


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## bkoski (Apr 26, 2005)

caesar4u said:


> Gentleman, I think I found the color I need, check this out, make sure to check the pictures:
> 
> http://www.trekmania.net/art/constitution_refit.htm


Thanks alot. The high-rez cgi of the direct views are phenomenal.


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## Cougar184 (Jan 8, 2002)

> I wanted to ask if there were any paint differances aside from "extra battle damage" on the ST II enterprise and the ST III enterprise?


half of the saucer section is missing and a few other thing were blown off.


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## caesar4u (Apr 13, 2005)

Hi guys, thanks for your recomendations, why NOT help each other out make a beautiful reproduction of the E. I see in other boards, people begrudgingly helping other board members, usually to not have to repeat themselves and since some info can be reread from other peoples topics and conversations, but I say to h#ll with that.

Here we can talk about the paint and everyhing all we like and that's the way I want t keep it, you guys are a cool crowd and it's great to be here.
So, JN grey for te engineering green. Will this be the lighter color or the darker of the engineering green and which colors will you guys be using?


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