# Who owns an actual "protoype"?



## RMMseven (Oct 22, 2004)

I know the term "prototype gets tossed around a lot but who on here actually owns a pre-production protoype from Aurora, Atlas, Tyco, Cox or any other company? Either recent or vinatage?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Aurora-AFX-HO-slot-car-prototype-VW-Thing-gray-rare-/220750302452?pt=Slot_Cars&hash=item3365be4cf4#ht_500wt_1156


http://cgi.ebay.com/Aurora-AFX-HO-slot-car-prototype-Porsche-510K-/220750302971?pt=Slot_Cars&hash=item3365be4efb#ht_500wt_1156


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## SCJ (Jul 15, 1999)

Agreed, this term abused to death, especially on eBay!:thumbsup:

I own several dozen pre production samples or Actual prototypes....

What you have linked to IMHO appear to be just paint/deco samples on standard production bodies.....NOT prototypes.



-------------------------
www.SlotCarJohnnies.com


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## Rolls (Jan 1, 2010)

I saw this "prototype" on ebay today. It seemed kinda normal to me. Like an XLerator or whatever the ones are that folks mine for their quadra-lam type arms. 

http://cgi.ebay.com/Aurora-T-Jet-Ca...230595834125?pt=Slot_Cars&hash=item35b095310d


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## Joe65SkylarkGS (Feb 15, 2010)

Rolls said:


> I saw this "prototype" on ebay today. It seemed kinda normal to me. Like an XLerator or whatever the ones are that folks mine for their quadra-lam type arms.
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/Aurora-T-Jet-Ca...230595834125?pt=Slot_Cars&hash=item35b095310d



Yea your correct. Nothing fancy just a plain xlerator chassis. Clearly the guy is not a slot car guy. Cause if you never seen one before, then your not a slot car guy.


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## videojimmy (Jan 12, 2006)

I think people get the terms test shot and prototype confused


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## tjd241 (Jan 25, 2004)

I actually like the paint scheme on the Vette Rolls linked (B&W)... Might have to clone that Stingray. :hat:


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## clydeomite (May 5, 2004)

Good Morning:
I have 2 Lazer 2000 cars that originated in Malasiya. they are tan molded color. I asked an AFX guru about them and was told they had to be a one-of-a kind His words not mine. I also asked Bob beers about them and he didn't have any info. So if anyone has info on these I would want to know. I have the envelope that they came shipped in from Overseas. 
Clyde-0-Mite


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## Joe65SkylarkGS (Feb 15, 2010)

clydeomite said:


> Good Morning:
> I have 2 Lazer 2000 cars that originated in Malasiya. they are tan molded color. I asked an AFX guru about them and was told they had to be a one-of-a kind His words not mine. I also asked Bob beers about them and he didn't have any info. So if anyone has info on these I would want to know. I have the envelope that they came shipped in from Overseas.
> Clyde-0-Mite


A pic is worth a thousand words. :thumbsup:


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## clydeomite (May 5, 2004)

Hey Joe:
I'll post a pic when it goes up to 2000 words OK.
Clyde-0-Mite


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## pshoe64 (Jun 10, 2008)

This is an interesting question. By prototype, are we looking for the original sculpture, that is sometimes panographed down to the proper scale? or the first version fabricated in the final scale? Which could have several forms from looking like a test shot to a combination of various materials to form the "final" version before replication or test shots are made. I've built several prototypes in the forms listed above for various manufacturers (Sorry, no pics due to legal agreements). I have to agree that many of the auction descriptions abuse the term "prototype". Most true prototypes are one hit wonders. I have only seen a couple come up for sale that I would consider the genuine article, based on my own work and others I have seen in the model industry.

-Paul


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## clydeomite (May 5, 2004)

Howdy again:
For any doubting Thomas's I have posted pics of the Lazer 2000 carz in " My Photos"
Thank you very much
Clyde-0-Mite


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## slotcarman12078 (Oct 3, 2008)

Those are pretty cool Clyde.. I'd say you have something rare there!


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## pshoe64 (Jun 10, 2008)

Very nice and very unique. The tampo print is nice and clear too.

-Paul


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

In my opinion, prototypes are the cars created which are used as the template for the production models. For example, I believe a lot of Tyco cars were hand molded/carved and painted before being approved for production. Those would be prototypes.

A test shot would be a car made from a production mold but in a color/deco that never made it to production. There could (and probably were) a number of these run off for review. I have a number of test shot Tyco Neon Blasters and there are more than one of each color. They are in colors never produced, but the bodies were available in other colors.

So....

Prototype: The original from which all others were created

Test Shot: Using existing body molds to produce cars in different colors or decos for approval but never making it to production.

Joe


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

I have a prototype.


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## RMMseven (Oct 22, 2004)

So my original question was who had an actual prototype and it looks like maybe two people have them. Nobody mentioned having any documentation with their prototypes (which the items in the auctions have) and whether they are vintage (pre-1980) or current like Playing Mantis/Auto World.

Now the definition of a prototype is something that is "pre-production" used by R&D or whomever at he company, could also be used as a sales example for instance. So a pre-production paint scheme is a "prototype" but I think a pre-production body shape would be much more desirable than just a different paint scheme of a then current body mold.

To say a prototype is only on a new body shape would mean that there was NEVER a prototype for the Super Modified T-Jet as it utilized the old Hot Rod body shape. How much would the 1st hand made "pre-production" Super Modified made in the Aurora R&D department be worth? Have no doubt everybody would consider it a prototype.

As for "test shots" this is a bit more confusing; there are pre-production or to use another word "prototype" test shots and there are also production test shots that are used for normal maintainence or whatever. 

The point is that these auction are a extremely "rare" (another over used word) oppurtunity to own an authentic piece of documented vintage Aurora history.

And yes those are my eBay listings!


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## RMMseven (Oct 22, 2004)

I love the Indy Patrick Wildcat Indy/Sprint car!


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## tjd241 (Jan 25, 2004)

*The Indy Sprint Prototype....*



RMMseven said:


> I love the Indy Patrick Wildcat Indy/Sprint car!


... sure is a crowd favorite ! !... and most definitely an awesome HO Slot Car to race or collect. :thumbsup:


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

*[email protected]@k!!!!! Niiiiiiiicccccccceeeeee!!!!!!*

It's an ULTRA SUPER RARE Tyco Prototype!!!!
One of a kind. I've never seen this one before!
Prototype mock up from Tycos R&D team in Singapore
plant in 1984 for their upcoming Outlaw dirt track set.
Chassis is used and untested. I don't have a track and 
don't know anything about slot cars DON"T MISS OUT ON
THIS ONCE IN A LIFETIME OPPORTUNITY!!!!

_*Buy It **Now*_ $500.00


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## Hilltop Raceway (Feb 12, 2006)

Have you fixed the oil leak yet??? Am interested...RM


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## RMMseven (Oct 22, 2004)

I'd buy it but there's no documentation!!!!

It's an ULTRA SUPER RARE Tyco Prototype!!!!
One of a kind. I've never seen this one before!
Prototype mock up from Tycos R&D team in Singapore
plant in 1984 for their upcoming Outlaw dirt track set.
Chassis is used and untested. I don't have a track and 
don't know anything about slot cars DON"T MISS OUT ON
THIS ONCE IN A LIFETIME OPPORTUNITY!!!!

Buy It Now $500.00


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

I have all available documentation, and a guys phone number that used to work for Tyco.
The original package was carefully recycled in California.
I've been offered over $3000 for this super rare prototype,
but I have to reduce my inventory and will sacrifice it today for only $500.
My loss is your gain!! Don't miss this chance of a lifetime!!!

=o)


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## Hilltop Raceway (Feb 12, 2006)

I'll go $5.00 just because...RM


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

(sigh) I can meet you half way.

Sound fair?


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## Bad Dawg Slots (Feb 8, 2009)

*my thoughts*

After working for Tyco / Mattel for 18 years at the Moorestown , Eastgate Mt Laurel facility which housed the model shop ,engineering , samples and casting deptments I have seen and made a few " prototypes " over the years . The last 5 years in Mt Laurel I was the Director of the facility .Carved a few slot car and matchbox patterns in my earlier years . With that said I have been asked many times where is the paper work on these models ? Only paper work you get to do the job or you generate while making and developing a model is sketches and a work order to cover your time spent with instruction . There maybe prints and color specs generated by design and engineering for a release package that gets sent over to China . The prototype of the sprint car I'm not sure that was made in sinapore though . I will go out there and say that that model I have seen in the Moorestown model shop and in the Slot car design cabinet . Sinapore did not do R&D for Tyco ( they were venders only )and california was not involved till after 97 after the merger . Everything was done in Moorestown ,NJ till they moved assembly to Portland OR in 94. If there was any off site work done they did some at Tyco Hong Kong . So if the thought is there is a paper that confirms the model being a prototype you may not find that .I guess you have to know and trust who is selling the model . I've had a few and sold a few and none had paper work .


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## Hilltop Raceway (Feb 12, 2006)

NTxSlotCars said:


> (sigh) I can meet you half way.
> 
> Sound fair?


Yea gladly!!! $2.50 sounds great!!! Thanks for not taking advantage of me...I guess the shipping will be more than the car??? RM
P.S. Don't need the paperwork...


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

Thanks for the Tyco info on prototypes Traxx!
I guess the jokes gone on long enough.
This was originally an indy car that I modified into a sprint car.
It is....
...................the most interesting car in the world.


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## Bad Dawg Slots (Feb 8, 2009)

NTxSlotCars said:


> Thanks for the Tyco info on prototypes Traxx!
> I guess the jokes gone on long enough.
> This was originally an indy car that I modified into a sprint car.
> It is....
> ...................the most interesting car in the world.



I caught on you guys were joking . My post was mainly for the original posting and question and used your car as an example . Funny thing is the indy patrick was used alot for mockups we built .The reason is when tyco released the first 440 chassis run the indy patrick was one of the first bodies released on that chassis. We would get cases of this car in to use the chassis and we had a rack of bodies in the model shop where we put bodies we took off chassis. These were along the same wall the " white blank shots were stored . We used the bodies for paint samples and paint sample models or the deco prototypes people use to buy at Toy Fair in NYC after the show was over . I later found out that the indy patrick was also bought by racers and they did the same thing buy and strip the body off and throw in thier pit boxes and it's the main reason the car has always been a high dollar car .


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## triple20 (Feb 2, 2001)

I'll let you guys put a name on this car,I don't know what it would be considered.

It's from the JL/PM era. It is raw plastic no paint.It has been played with,used as a test mule by a designer at JL/PM named Al Fletcher,he used to hang out here at HobbyTalk,I believe his handle was BigAl. Bought it thru one of his ebay auctions.
My guess is this is one of the first Batmobiles JL produced,if not the first.


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## RMMseven (Oct 22, 2004)

Thanks for the insight on Tyco prototypes. I would not expect there to be too much official company paperwork but some sort of documentation from an involved employee such as ourself is much better than nothing.


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## pshoe64 (Jun 10, 2008)

Following up on Bruce's post, here is a Tomy AFX original sculpture, at a much larger size. This is panographed or laser scanned so a rubber mold for each part is created in the proper scale.









Then using the rubber molds, a prototype body is cast to look for molding flaws, issues with release of the parts, assembly of parts, etc. These are resin today, but were often cast using the production plastic under lower pressure because of the rubber molds not lasting under the heat and higher pressure of the normal production process. Here's a resin cast in finished size, created from the molds made from the larger sculpture.









-Paul


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## Joe65SkylarkGS (Feb 15, 2010)

I have a "Blank" (All White No Markings) GN from when the stockers came out back in the late 80's? Is this rare?

Kinda looks like your resin car Paul.


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## clydeomite (May 5, 2004)

Howdy:
I forgot about my 35 plymouth dirt track car modeled by Jerry Broz of Autoworld fame. I will post pics in My photos of a " Plug " and finished molded body.
Clyde-0-Mite


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## 70ss (Aug 22, 2005)

Joe65SkylarkGS said:


> I have a "Blank" (All White No Markings) GN from when the stockers came out back in the late 80's? Is this rare?
> 
> Kinda looks like your resin car Paul.


If I recall these were sold as "test shot" cars. Other body styles also.


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## Joe65SkylarkGS (Feb 15, 2010)

70ss said:


> If I recall these were sold as "test shot" cars. Other body styles also.



Ok test shots. How many were made of them?


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## 70ss (Aug 22, 2005)

Enough that I dont think they would be considered rare. I may be wrong.
Maybe Bruce would know better or different.


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## Bad Dawg Slots (Feb 8, 2009)

*Test shots or blanks*

What ever you call them test shots ,blanks or first shots there were thousands of them made . Anytime we needed a body to paint and deco we would use one of these. We had racks with stock containers filled with these bodies . I would estimate we had about 500 to 1000 of each body along with parts and glass. We had more stock all over the model shop in boxes. Thats why when someone would liberate a few boxes of these bodies out the back door they were never missed . Sorry to say these are not rare . There's thousands of them out there . There are also a bunch of translucent redish orange ,green ,blue , and yellow bodies out there too . One word of caution alot of the white bodies were made out a very cheap styrene like material that turns a dark off white color and turn brittle . very senstive to uv light . Sorry Joe


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## Joe65SkylarkGS (Feb 15, 2010)

Bad Dawg Slots said:


> What ever you call them test shots ,blanks or first shots there were thousands of them made . Anytime we needed a body to paint and deco we would use one of these. We had racks with stock containers filled with these bodies . I would estimate we had about 500 to 1000 of each body along with parts and glass. We had more stock all over the model shop in boxes. Thats why when someone would liberate a few boxes of these bodies out the back door they were never missed . Sorry to say these are not rare . There's thousands of them out there . There are also a bunch of translucent redish orange ,green ,blue , and yellow bodies out there too . One word of caution alot of the white bodies were made out a very cheap styrene like material that turns a dark off white color and turn brittle . very senstive to uv light . Sorry Joe



No worried Bruce. Glad to just know. I never knew if it was anything but one thing it is is cooooool!!! :thumbsup:


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## Bad Dawg Slots (Feb 8, 2009)

Joe65SkylarkGS said:


> No worried Bruce. Glad to just know. I never knew if it was anything but one thing it is is cooooool!!! :thumbsup:



Which one do you have?


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

I have a blank Cutlass, Buick Regal and 85 Thunderbird.


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## Joe65SkylarkGS (Feb 15, 2010)

Bad Dawg Slots said:


> Which one do you have?


Grand National which was ultimately the 43 and 27?


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## Rick Carter (Dec 2, 2008)

For some reason, I can't get the image to appear from the hi-lite/copy bypass move since the file was too large -LOL! But, if you jump to SCI, you can see what I loaded under the Tyco 440, lets see 'em topic.

Are the first 2 pictures of the Tazman Prototypes or Pre-Productions in your opinion?

Thanks!


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## clydeomite (May 5, 2004)

Howdy:
By chance this morning I ran into Jerry Broz at Hobby Lobby here in Pueblo. We shared a nice conversation and I mentioned his 35 Plymouth dirt car. He told me he also has done a Shadow can am car for the tjet chassis which were to be released by Twinn K .
I have not seen this mold or Body but told him I would like to
Clyde-0-Mite


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## 1976Cordoba (Sep 20, 2000)

There's this dude on here and his handle is AFXCrazy I think . . . anyway he is crazy about AFX stuff and I believe he has a few prototypes if he ever chimes in on this thread.


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## martybauer31 (Jan 27, 2004)

Hey Bad Dawg, this one look familiar? 





Bad Dawg Slots said:


> After working for Tyco / Mattel for 18 years at the Moorestown , Eastgate Mt Laurel facility which housed the model shop ,engineering , samples and casting deptments I have seen and made a few " prototypes " over the years . The last 5 years in Mt Laurel I was the Director of the facility .Carved a few slot car and matchbox patterns in my earlier years . With that said I have been asked many times where is the paper work on these models ? Only paper work you get to do the job or you generate while making and developing a model is sketches and a work order to cover your time spent with instruction . There maybe prints and color specs generated by design and engineering for a release package that gets sent over to China . The prototype of the sprint car I'm not sure that was made in sinapore though . I will go out there and say that that model I have seen in the Moorestown model shop and in the Slot car design cabinet . Sinapore did not do R&D for Tyco ( they were venders only )and california was not involved till after 97 after the merger . Everything was done in Moorestown ,NJ till they moved assembly to Portland OR in 94. If there was any off site work done they did some at Tyco Hong Kong . So if the thought is there is a paper that confirms the model being a prototype you may not find that .I guess you have to know and trust who is selling the model . I've had a few and sold a few and none had paper work .


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## chopchange (Oct 25, 2010)

Does the McDonalds Panoz count?

A family member and a mate have one of those.


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