# 1/650 E D



## REL

Here's a pic of the Ertl for size comparison. I have most of it sculpted out now, stay tuned for updates.


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## Chuck_P.R.

Wow!

I can't think of anything to say.

This defies description.

Incredible!


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## Prince of Styrene II

Oh dear God.  


Time to start saving. :freak:


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## Mr. Canoehead

I think its time to declare another holiday.


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## actias

More Pics Please!


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## vaderknight

We need a smilie for drool.

Me like!!! Me want when done!!! Me can't wait!!!


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## REL

Thank you. I'm also going to make a Nebula class, and the AGT version (3 nacelled battleship)


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## Lloyd Collins

Awesome start!

And for vaderknight and from me...


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## SPINDRIFT62

Holy man I can't wait to see the progress on this build


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## 1711rob

WOW Time to add on another room


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## Lou Dalmaso

spindrift,
Progress? in the time it took to post that last picture, I'll wager that not only has Richard finished the galaxy class, he will have completed two more commissions. 


He's not Human I tell you!


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## robiwon

Holy crap! I may actualy have to have this one.


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## actias

John P is going to poop his pants!


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## Nova Designs

I love you.


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## Griffworks

1711rob said:


> WOW Time to add on another room


LOL Can't afford the new model 'cause you have to put an addition on to your house! Or... can't afford the new addition to put the model in. :lol: 

Maybe buy the model, save for the addition and then build it once you've got that extra room.


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## John May

You know REL, I have a set of the origional studio blueprints.
Not a fan produced blueprints !


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## REL

And so do I :thumbsup: Thanks though.


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## 1711rob

"Maybe buy the model, save for the addition and then build it once you've got that extra room." 

Yeah that's it, always buy the model first figure out the rest later


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## John May

REL said:


> And so do I :thumbsup: Thanks though.


OK
There are 2 different studio blueprints by the way.


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## SPINDRIFT62

I just have to say this any plans on build a dry dock for it would truly love to see that. If you did I would probably see it here from Toronto Canada.


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## edwhitefire

Only 2 different sets? And btw, not all of them have a lot of consistancy either. Depends on the vintage of the blueprints (which season they came from). Anyway, I like what you've done so far. Am looking forward to more pics! (Let me know if I can help any.)


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## vaderknight

Lloyd Collins said:


> Awesome start!
> 
> And for vaderknight and from me...


Just seeing that one pic from REL just about made me do that.


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## REL

Alrighty, waiting on the foam to get here. UPS says tomorrow then I can start in on it serious. I finished the nacelle, and cut the saucer, it's like a breakfast table.


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## Lloyd Collins

I will never stop being amazed at you modeling skill. Seeing what you can do, has got me wanting to try it my self. Thanks!


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## Prince of Styrene II

REL said:


> I'm also going to make ...the AGT version (3 nacelled battleship)





REL said:


> Alrighty, waiting on the foam to get here. UPS says tomorrow then I can start in on it serious. I finished the nacelle, and cut the saucer, it's like a breakfast table.


And that's the verson I want. *sigh* Time to see about that second mortgage.


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## actias

REL you're scaring me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AWESOME!


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## Griffworks

Whoa....


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## Chuck_P.R.

Saucer Pics, pretty please????


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## Chuck_P.R.

Don't forget the trenches for nacelle wiring, please sir!


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## REL

There'll be hollow tubes cast inside the pylons, no trenches needed.


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## robiwon

I know it's early but...........price guesstimate?


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## Griffworks

Two Million _Quatloos_! 


(Sorry, couldn't resist!)


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## REL

Update. Still sanding and sanding and sanding......


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## Chief Bast

Impressive work, REL. You've really captured the spirit of Coca-Cola in your work.


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## REL

Thank you, I do my best :thumbsup: 


Forgot one.


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## Lloyd Collins

That looks like the 1701D, I thought you were building a 1/650 Ed.

WOW!! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


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## robiwon

No, that's the 1/209 ED.


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## GT350R_Modeler

Now what does the "ED" in the ED209 stand for? Here's a hint... (Enforcement Droid) BTW, awesome on the "D" Rel. Follow your "E" thread as well. Now if I only had your scratch build knowledge, well...I don't know what. Too many things come to mind.


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## REL

Still refining the shape. This is the hardest part of the whole ship (for me) so I want to get this out of the way first.


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## Prince of Styrene II

Man, you work fast!!


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## Mr. Canoehead

I asume Rel that your making the smooth version and not the plated version that we see in the later half of the series.


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## REL

I'm making the Generations version, which is the smoothy.


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## Lou Dalmaso

Great news! I much prefer the smoothy. such an elegant design only to be mucked up with such a warty surface. I hope the only indents on the surface will be for the grid and the windows (please make the windows "deeper" than you did on the E. I can barely make them out on my casting)

I wonder if my "D" templates (currently in progress) could be blown up to fit this beast?

hmmmm (scurries back to the lab..)


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## Cougar184

so could you take a pic REL with the E-E next to the secondary hull of your E-D


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## REL

Sure here you go.


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## Atemylunch

That's big. 
And done before Wonderfest.
Unreal.


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## Lloyd Collins

This is going to be awesome. The real fun, will be the saucer!


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## Nova Designs

I am SO saving up for this one! OMG Rel, you're amazing!


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## actias

How big will the dish be from port to starboard, or left to right?


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## Prince of Styrene II

actias said:


> How big will the dish be from port to starboard, or left to right?


The D is almost as wide as she is long. The 6' studio model was about 5.5' wide!


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## REL

It'll be 39" long x 29" wide. 

edit:the whole ship not just the saucer.


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## REL

Update, worked on the shape a little today.


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## uss_columbia

Sweet! I was hoping you'd get back to this!
(Actually, I'd be even happier if you were doing a 1/1000 version. Maybe that will be next.  )


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## Nova Designs

Yea! :thumbsup: 
This is the only non-TOS ship I'm really interested in. I'm glad to see you're getting back to it. Um... not that I'm ever disappointed in anything you show us, mind you!


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## Modeler1964

REL- very nice as usual. Thanks for the update pics!


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## ClubTepes

REL,


Your work is absolutly amazing. And I'm equally amazed at how fast you produce product as well.

I just can't get past the 1/650 thing. If you had produced your 1/650 pieces in 1/700, I'd have picked up a copy of each almost regardless of the price.

PL really got it right right when they started their 1/350 stuff. Not because of the shear size, but because of the notion of Dave saying "I want to see how big it is next to the Tamiya aircraft carrier Enterprise." 

I could go into my typical REALLY long scale rant about the Enterprise is a 'ship' and it should be in a 'ship' scale, but your obviously so talented I don't see the point of basing your work on the same scale as the worst Enterprise kit out there. (which it itself isn't really 1/650) I'm sure you could put out a MUCH better TOS E in 1/700 than the old 1/630something kit.


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## Carson Dyle

Considering what a beautifully realized model this will no doubt become I can't help but wish I liked the subject's design more.

Ah, well... given how many models I've purchased recently this is probably a good thing.


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## REL

The 1/650 thing was a total accident, when I first made the Ent E, I knew nothing about scale. But it turned out that the new dimensions of the Ent E refit worked out to be 1/650. 

Anyway, the Ent D will be finished around Sept since I can't work on it full time, maybe just an hour a day.


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## REL

I covered the hull with 2 layers of fiberglass, then cleaned it up and primered it to look for flaws.I got the shape about where I want it, just a little more work around the deflector.


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## uss_columbia

Sweet! Makes me want to start working on my old 1:537 E-D again.


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## actias

REL is pretending to be Scotty. He says it won't be ready until around Sept. but when it is delivered in July he will take on the name "Miracle Worker"!


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## Nova Designs

Hahaha.... I think he's probably already earned that name!


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## saiyagohan

Very Nice Craftsmanship Rich,How large will the saucer section be,and will it be detachable?


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## REL

I'm starting on the lower part of the sec hull pylons.


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## compucrap

:thumbsup: niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice.


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## Lloyd Collins

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:


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## Nova Designs

Is that heat-formed plastic for the struts?


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## REL

Heat formed plexiglass, and it wasn't easy to do either. I'll make the sections for the top sometime this week, then get the bottom part of the sec hull finished.


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## REL

For those that have my EE, here's a comparison pic between the sec hulls.


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## Nova Designs

REL said:


> Heat formed plexiglass, and it wasn't easy to do either. I'll make the sections for the top sometime this week, then get the bottom part of the sec hull finished.


Well it may not have been easy, but you really did a fine job! :thumbsup:


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## REL




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## REL

Update. Ertl engine for size comparison.


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## dan1701d

Wow, looking awesome. I want one. The E-D has always been my favorite ;-)


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## REL

I got it fiberglassed and primered. I'll make a mold from this plug to cast the top and bottom half of the nacelle in fiberglass, then detail those seperate castings.


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## REL

I made two resin plugs to detail out the top and bottom half of the nacelle.


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## REL




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## actias

I think my "Scotty/ Miracle Worker" assessment is true! As usual, amazing and FAST work!


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## REL

Thanks. Got the top detail on the nacelle finished.


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## Griffworks

Nice clean lines! That thing looks smoother'n a babies be-hind! Great work thus far, Richard. As always. :thumbsup:


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## REL

Thanks.

Small update. I'm still working on the nacelles, I have the windows in the lower part of the nacelle, and got the docking port area etched out. I also routered out the area where the warp grills will go. Those will be one piece that's solid instead of like the Ertl kit. The nose of the nacelle will be a seperate one piece part cast in clear.


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## 3D-builder

The things I like about your work Rel is your compassion and consistancy to work at a established level all the time.!

Regards,
Michael


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## GT350R_Modeler

This might be the first of REL's kits that I might actually purchase. Not that his other one's aren't worth it mind you, but the "E D" is my 2nd fav ship. (Next to the Refit of course). Plus I just bought my first house and it has a GREAT work area in the garage that I hopefully can build up this kit as the inagural build for said work space. 

Waiting IMpatiently...... :thumbsup:


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## Nova Designs

Wow, looks like I missed a couple of tasty updates! SUH-WEEET!!!


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## REL

I used my plotter with a CAD file to cut thin styrene in multiple passes for the pylon trench detail. I'll use the same technique for other surface details on the hull like the lifeboat hatches, transporter emitters and other various details.


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## REL

Here it is primered.


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## Four Mad Men

Very cool!


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## Griffworks

Schweet job thus far, Richard!


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## Lloyd Collins

...............(speechless)


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## REL

Thank you gentlemen. I'm starting to scribe the gridlines. That's the only thing that will be scribed onto the hull, all the aztec patterns will be done with paint on the final fiberglass cast.


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## compucrap

nice work! How did you scrib the slight curve on the pylons and have them be the same on each side?

Josh


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## REL

I did some work on the rear photon launcher. Oh, and a 1/1 scale US Quarter.


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## Captain April

The detail on that quarter is incredible...


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## Modeler1964

Very nice Richard! She is coming along very well! Thanks for posting the pics. Will you be starting on the primary hull soon?


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## uss_columbia

The "pylons" to the nacelles are rather thin; when you mold the inner/outer halves, will there be room for wires / ribbon cable, or will we need to use flex? (It is possible to hand-make flex cables by gluing aluminum foil traces to thin plastic sheet (and coating the traces with another layer of glue for protection).


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## REL

You can see in this post that there's a lower section to the pylons that will be another part. 

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showpost.php?p=1971522&postcount=71


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## uss_columbia

Ok, that does look like it will have ample room for a few wires.
It's coming along very nicely, BTW.


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## ClubTepes

Again, great stuff.

Have you considered a 'studio scale' version?

The odd coincedance is that I believe the studio scale of the Enterprise 'D' is 1/350.

Fun how that works out.

On a more reasonable front, how about a 1/1,000 scale varsion.


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## uss_columbia

I would absolutely buy a 1/1000 E-D and E-E!


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## REL

I considered a 1/350 one actually. 1/1000 is too small for my liking though.

First casting of the nacelle is finished. I'll use the casting to make the grills and the nose cone.


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## hell_fighter_8

that thing is huge! Great work!


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## REL

I'm working on the nacelle grill, the grill will be one piece cast clear. It's still a little rough but I'll clean it all up.


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## REL

My goal is to get the battle section complete this week.


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## RonH

YAY for Dr. Pepper ! Oh, nice and nice work too.


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## vaderknight

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: 

Looks better than my 1701-D Blender project.
Looks better than the ERTL 1701-D kit.
Looks better than anything I've ever seen before!!!!!

(Except for your 1701-E, of course)


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## Jafo

super nice work!


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## REL

I'm working on the lower saucer now.


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## REL




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## fokkerpilot

Absolutely Fantastic :thumbsup:


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## Modeler1964

OMG! That ship is a thing of beauty! Very nice work. It's gonna be huge!


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## Nova Designs

OMG the sheer SIZE of that thing!!!


I'm in love!


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## Raist3001

Absolutely stunning!!

I need a bigger house.


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## Johnnyb1

*E-650*

:thumbsup: Absolutley beautiful!


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## Modeler1964

Well that does it! REL- this will be my first purchase from you! Put me on the official list if you have started one.


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## Lloyd Collins

..........(speechless)....WOW!!.....(crying)....So Beautiful!


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## jimmydog

(picking jaw off floor)

count me in too, for sure, if you're keeping a list ... must have ... must have ... (drool) ...


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## REL

Thanks. I'm working on the window boxes now.


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## SteveR

Uh ... wow. That's really impressive.

Like my wife will let me bring _*that*_ into the house.


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## vaderknight

SteveR said:


> Uh ... wow. That's really impressive.
> 
> Like my wife will let me bring _*that*_ into the house.


Just tell the wife that it's an anniversary present from her to you. :tongue: 
If that excuse doesn't work, I'm sure we can come up with another one for you.

REL, my jaw won't stay closed. You have really out-done yourself this time.

Wait a minute. What am I saying?? You always out-do yourself!!


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## REL

Thanks. This is what it looked like before I put in the window boxes, those pesky termites!


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## Nova Designs

Hahahah termites, eh? I was wondering how you cut thouse boxes out.


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## uss_columbia

I need to get me some of those well-trained termites; they'd really come in handy!


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## Captain April

Just a thought....wouldn't this be roughly the same scale as the old AMT 18" TOS Enterprise?


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## vaderknight

Whatever you do...do not contact an exterminator for those termites.
Those little critters are very skilled at their job.


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## uss_columbia

Capt. April: I think the AMT E was more like 1:635 scale but was widely stated as 1:650.


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## Lloyd Collins

Termites! Another magic moment busted.


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## dan1701d

WOW... man she is a beauty. Keep up the awesome work. Are the termites for hire? LOL


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## ClubTepes

I am incredibly impressed (and envious) with the speed at which you work.

I see the Pocket Book blueprints in many of your shots. Was this your primary B.P. source? 

Has Probert ever let copies of his full size prints out to anyone?


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## Nova Designs

uss_columbia said:


> Capt. April: I think the AMT E was more like 1:635 scale but was widely stated as 1:650.



I thought it was 1/537th? Eh, what do I know about scales. I'm no fisherman! :wave:


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## REL

I made a huge mistake on those window indents, I didn't map out the circular panel lines when I placed the windows, so when I started to do the panel lines the windows didn't line up. Plus, I wasn't happy with how soft the edges were on them, so I filled them all in and started over. This time the window indentations will be made of plexi or brass instead of styrene, so when I blend them in they'll have crisper edges.










Also, it looks like we'll be moving soon so I have to fast track this one and get caught up on all my outstanding kits I owe everyone so I'll be spending like 12 hours a day in the shop for the summer.


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## Vaderman

I hope you are moving to a place that has a BIG workshop for you to work in. :thumbsup: You will need room for all of these monster size ships.


Scott


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## Modeler1964

REL- I really admire your commitment to the quality of your product. As a person who is a corporate quality assurance coordinator for a large construction company, I know how easy it can be at times to say screw it, its good enough. But, cheers my friend on the fine job and I hope you didn't lose it too bad when you found your "oops". Thanks again!


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## drewid142

REL - I too admire your skill... but I am extremely envious of your ability to put 12 hours days all summer into this! No "day job"? 

I loved the Ent E... but couldn't buy one... I think I may have to get one of these!


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## GT350R_Modeler

REL said:


> I made a huge mistake on those window indents, I didn't map out the circular panel lines when I placed the windows, so when I started to do the panel lines the windows didn't line up. Plus, I wasn't happy with how soft the edges were on them, so I filled them all in and started over. This time the window indentations will be made of plexi or brass instead of styrene, so when I blend them in they'll have crisper edges.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, it looks like we'll be moving soon so I have to fast track this one and get caught up on all my outstanding kits I owe everyone so I'll be spending like 12 hours a day in the shop for the summer.



Certainly no need to rush. I am willing to wait to get a hold of another of your great builds. Just bought my first home and moved recently myself. Got lots saved up. Take your time. Btw, where is your trademark soda can?


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## uss_columbia

Nova Designs said:


> I thought it was 1/537th? Eh, what do I know about scales. I'm no fisherman! :wave:


The AMT refit was 1/537; the original AMT 1701 (most popular scifi kit ever) was 1/635 or 1/650 or somesuch. (Some of the 1/537s later claimed to be 1/650 on the packaging, e.g., Reliant but were not.)


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## Trek Ace

If it were just a _tad_ bit smaller (i.e. 1/700), I could display it with my 1/700 Tamiya CV-6 _USS Enterprise _model.

Not complaining, though.  I still want one.


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## Modeler1964

REL- You have explained your process of using templates before but I have a few quick questions about the shaping process. Once the templates for the profile are in place and filled with polyfoam, do you just go after it with files, rasps and sandpaper until you carve the profile to just above the level of the templates? Do you use any power tools to do the rough shaping then use hand tools? How many templates were used on the lower saucer here for example?
I am thinking about using your process here to produce a lower saucer for the TOS E, but using a slowly spinning table to place the rough shape on and then try to shape it with a router cutting down to just above the level of the templates. I would have to secure the router somehow and ever so slowly cut away the excess. 
I know this isn't possible on the E-D because of the elliptical shape of the primary hull. On a true circle however, do you think this process would work using the 4 lb foam?


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## REL

I think I used about 20 cross sections for the lower saucer. I filled it with 3lb foam then used a random orbit sander with 30 grit sandpaper to sand the foam down to just above the ribs, then used block sanders by hand to go the rest of the way. Just be sure to always use a harder material than the foam for the cross sections otherwise you'll sand them away without knowing it. Plexi is a good choice, although I used masonite on the D. 

To get the shape of the lower hull for the TOS E, I wouldn't bother with cross sections at all, I would screed it. Basically you cut a negative blade of the profile of the saucer, you can make it out of plexi, or sheet metal whichever, attach it to a rod on a platform. You then use plaster, or bondo and trowel it onto the the surface and spin the blade around and it'll shape out the hull, you'll have to do it several times to get the right shape. 

Here's a drawing I made showing the basic principal. That's the easiest way to get the shape of the round saucers, it's a snap, in fact it takes longer to make the set up than to make the saucer. You can also put notches into the blade for the rings on the saucer, also you can make a divit on the front side of it so you'll have a lip around the edge for molding. 










In fact I made a hand held blade in the shape of the round part on the bottom of the D saucer to get the shape of that, being that it's eliptical I couldn't make it on a platform and could only go around the edge about 4" but it still made a nice crisp line where it transitions from the flat part to the hump. I did the same thing when I made the body of the BOP to get that lip, using bondo.


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## Modeler1964

That's a really nifty idea! I may have to give that a try first. After making the basic shape from plaster and getting your desired finish;would you have to seal it somehow? Maybe "glass" over the shape then mold it? Man thanks for showing this to me!


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## Carson Dyle

Would-be _Jupiter II_ scratch-builders take note.


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## Griffworks

That's an ingenius idea, Richard! Very kewel. Thanks for sharing that.


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## uss_columbia

I've used this technique to good effect, even on smaller parts. (I don't have a lathe; this is the next best thing for small parts and about the only option for larger ones). It's kinda fun, too.

I read somewhere (on this forum IIRR, waaaayy back when) that this very technique was used in the construction of the 11-foot 1701 studio model's saucer: in plaster; plastic was then vacuformed over it.


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## BlackbirdCD

It's an elegant, really old trick. Been around for ages, really. First time I read about it was in one of Dave Merriman's articles on Cult's page (I think it was his older scratch-built TOS Enterprise). After that I kept finding references to it over the years in other model circles.


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## Lloyd Collins

First time for me seeing this Tip! Thanks Richard!


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## Modeler1964

Still need an answer to the sealing question above. Can you just pour mold rubber over a plaster master without sealing it? Seems like you would have to seal it then use mold release of course during the molding process.


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## uss_columbia

For making a mold from it, if the surface is smooth, it doesn't really matter what it's made of (as long as it doesn't bond with the RTV -- use appropriate release agent). On the other hand, if the surface is very porous, the RTV can get into the pores and lock the rubber to the master.
I'd suggest you paint the surface of the plaster; I'd use primer and sand and repaint until I get all of the minor imperfections smooth. If needed, fill with spot putty for small defects, bondo for larger defects. Pour your rubber over the primed surface.
If you're worried about the plaster standing up to some abuse, you could certainly glass over it. If you only want one copy, you might just apply a release agent, glass over it, and then remove the plug from the fiberglass shell once it's cured. (Make sure you don't have undercuts like shown in REL's picture, though; else you'll have to destroy the plug to get it out.) (If you go this route, consider making your plaster part the negative of the saucer and using it as a female mold for the fiberglass.)


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## uss_columbia

I should also mention that using plaster for very large parts can lead to cracks as it shrinks. That's ok: you can just fill them in and go again.
I prefer to use foam and putty: I use blue styrofoam insulation foam in the rough shape, always a little undersize; then I cover with Magic Smooth (or similar epoxy putty) and run the "blade" over that. It's more expensive than plaster, naturally, but there's virtually no shrinkage, it makes a nice hard shell, and it will take scribe lines and such. It's a lot harder to sand, though; make sure to get the surface pretty smooth before it cures completely.


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## Carson Dyle

Phil Broad has been touting this technique for ages, and even dedicated a "how to" page to it on his Cloudster site.


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## uss_columbia

I'd never browsed to that part of Cloudster before. Nice page! Here's a direct link:
http://www.cloudster.com/HowToSection/AxialSymmertricShapes.html


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## Trek Ace

It's usual for turning something like a large saucer, to have a lot of material forming the rough shape just under where the layer of plaster is going to be applied. Concentric discs of wood, stacked to form the basic shape, works great for this. 

There is a center hole for the dowel to be inserted that has the contour blade attached. Hydrocal (plaster) is then mixed and applied to this form as the contour scraper is turned around and around, removing the excess material and leaving the desired shape.

This stuff heats up as it cures and gives off lots of steam. USS Columbia is right about the cracking if the form is too thick, hence the wood or dense foam material underneath.


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## Modeler1964

Rodger that gentlemen. Thanks for the information. I don't want to hijack this thread and I apologize if I have REL. Again, thanks for the suggestions and info on this process!...now back to the "D"


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## Nova Designs

uss_columbia said:


> The AMT refit was 1/537; the original AMT 1701 (most popular scifi kit ever) was 1/635 or 1/650 or somesuch. (Some of the 1/537s later claimed to be 1/650 on the packaging, e.g., Reliant but were not.)



Ah, that's right, I remember now. Thanks! :thumbsup:


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## REL

Finished the grid lines. I still need to square up a couple of those window boxes, those things are a pain in the wazoo.


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## Griffworks

It's alright if I hate you for this, right? It's such a great job that I'm starting to regret - just like w/the beauty that is your E-E kit! - that I just don't have the space for this one.


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## REL

Thank you.

Well you could get one and use it as a space dock for the rest of your fleet LOL.

I'm putting the detail back on, hopefully I can get all the lifeboats, transporter pads etc on this weekend.


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## REL

More details.


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## 1711rob

WOW !!! amazing but think i'm with Griff on this no room at the inn ( and thats a shame ) because thats GREAT.speechless


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## REL

Here's a pic with the 1/350 PL refit saucer for scale.


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## Lloyd Collins

*WOW!!* That really puts it to scale. More impressive! :thumbsup:


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## Gothmog

Put me on the list, but after i get my TOS BoP. One thing at a time, be sides, I still want a Botnay Bay in 1/350, any news on that one?


----------



## Tobor64

Incredible! I had to pass on the BoP for various reasons but I'm not letting this one escape my grasp. What will be the final dimensions of the "D"?


----------



## hell_fighter_8

REL said:


> I'm putting the detail back on, hopefully I can get all the lifeboats, transporter pads etc on this weekend.


Is the weekend over already?

Whats more amazing then the model itself is the speed at which its getting done without a detail overlooked!


----------



## robiwon

Agreed, if I worked on a model one tenth that size this quickly it would look like crap! Rel, don't take this the wrong way but, do you have a life or anything? Are you constantly working on this? You sir are like a production line! Awesome work. For the space restricted, hang it up!


----------



## Guest

I think REL is one of them rare folks like certain others on this board that once started shows a distinct tendancy not to stop untill the jobs done.
And bloody good on ya for that !

Always a pleasure to see this kind of thing taking shape :thumbsup: 

Go easy


----------



## Griffworks

I'm beginning to suspect that REL, like Alfred Wong, has _many_ clones....  

"The work on the upper saucer was done by REL Clone #117. Lower saucer by REL Clone #081."


----------



## ClubTepes

Griffworks said:


> I'm beginning to suspect that REL, like Alfred Wong, has _many_ clones....
> 
> "The work on the upper saucer was done by REL Clone #117. Lower saucer by REL Clone #081."


All controlled by Harry Mudd.


----------



## ClubTepes

Trek Ace said:


> If it were just a _tad_ bit smaller (i.e. 1/700), I could display it with my 1/700 Tamiya CV-6 _USS Enterprise _model.
> 
> Not complaining, though.  I still want one.


I've been saying this for YEARS and YEARS and YEARS.

Enterprises (and everything else) in 1/350 and 1/700.

It seemed like my prayers had been answered when PL started the 1/350 line.
Unfortunatly we know what happened there.

Still waiting on the 1/700 scale stuff.


----------



## Bernard Guignar

Considering I thought the 1/350 Enterprise was large this is huge. Great work by the way.


----------



## Nova Designs

oh man this is RELly coming together nicely!!!!


----------



## REL

Thanks.

I'm starting to do the details on the lower sec hull now.


----------



## REL

The styrene details.


----------



## Trek Ace

Exquisite work!


----------



## Griffworks

Wow. You knocked that out in just two hours??? Excellent! :thumbsup: 



I think you've been lying to us all this time, tho - I think you really work for ILM.


----------



## PixelMagic

Griffworks said:


> I think you've been lying to us all this time, tho - I think you really work for ILM.


I'm applying at ILM next month. If I get hired, I will look for REL. Now, if only I knew what he looked like....  

I guess I'll have to look for a Coke or Dr. Pepper can as evidence. :thumbsup:


----------



## Nova Designs

Naw, ILM spun off their physical modeling division last year... he's definitely not there.


----------



## REL

Thanks, 

Just to show, once again I used the tape and primer method to get the panel lines.


----------



## Griffworks

What sort of masking medium are you using there, Richard? Is it Tamiya masking tape, perchance? If not, curious to know. 





Nova Designs said:


> Naw, ILM spun off their physical modeling division last year... he's definitely not there.


Yes, I knew that. I was just sort of using that example as a pseudo-joke while at the same time compliment REL's scratchbuilding skills.


----------



## REL

It's masking film designed to be cut on a vinyl plotter, I can cut it into perfect strips as thin as a human hair if I wanted.

http://www.beacongraphics.com/paintmask.html


----------



## Griffworks

Kewel. Thanks for that info, tho it doesn't really do me any good, unfortunately. Do you draw the required files yourself, I guess?


----------



## Atemylunch

PixelMagic said:


> I'm applying at ILM next month. If I get hired, I will look for REL. Now, if only I knew what he looked like....
> 
> I guess I'll have to look for a Coke or Dr. Pepper can as evidence. :thumbsup:


Richard at ILM, LOL.
I don't think he would want to take the pay cut.


----------



## REL

Placing the windows, they'll be covered with a few light coats of primer then removed.


----------



## uss_columbia

REL: 
Do you have a link to the vinyl cutter you use? How much does one cost?

Edit: I did a search, and there seem to be lots of options starting at about $400. I'd still like to know what make/model you use that works so well, please.


----------



## REL

This is the one I have right here at the link below. It's worked flawlessly for me, it makes a lot of jobs so much easier. A few of my friends also own this one and they say the same thing. The company ships fast and has a support forum if you run into trouble. 

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-25-Vinyl-Cu...5QQihZ017QQcategoryZ26245QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


----------



## vaderknight

Have I mentioned this already?

I want!! I want!! I want!!


----------



## b26354

I bought a cheap chinese vinyl cutter a few months ago - I keep thinking up new uses for it e.g If I need to cut some acrylic on a bandsaw - make a template on the vinyl cutter and use that as a guide. If I need to dremel holes in precise locations - make a template on the vinyl cutter. 1/32nd scale raised rivet lines - cut out rows of small holes from masking film, apply film to model and fill the holes with epoxy. Painted markings - cut out a stencil (I've got text as small as 3mm high to work). I vacformed some parts and stuck vinyl to the buck to act as a guide for trimming the plastic. And of course panel detailing.


----------



## John P

Hm. Windows for kitbashed starship - paint model black, apply vinyl window shapes, paint model in final colors, remove vinyl window shapes.

Hmmm.


----------



## Guest

Coming along in the usual exacting leaps and bounds REL, sterling work !
One of them vynil plotter doo-dads may well come in handy for yours truly down the line, have to give it some serious thinkin' about.




John P said:


> Hm. Windows for kitbashed starship - paint model black, apply vinyl window shapes, paint model in final colors, remove vinyl window shapes.
> 
> Hmmm.


Did the same kind of thing on a USS Voyager i built some time back except it was window masks over white, seems to work ok so different colours but the priciple John says is the same.
Saying that, i recall i did the black windows on the TOS Enterprise the same as laid out above so there ya have it. When John right he's right on.

Go easy


----------



## Griffworks

REL said:


> This is the one I have right here at the link below. It's worked flawlessly for me, it makes a lot of jobs so much easier. A few of my friends also own this one and they say the same thing. The company ships fast and has a support forum if you run into trouble.
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-25-Vinyl-Cutter-Cutting-Plotter-24-w-SignBlazer_W0QQitemZ270147460165QQihZ017QQcategoryZ26245QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


Ah! So, they're somewhat expensive, but not nearly so expensive as I was thinking. Plus, after reading the description, I was thinking that I'd have to spend at least several hundred dollars on the software, but see that it includes bundled software. Most interesting. I'm not in the same league of modeling you are, so don't know that I'd necessarily ever need it for the same reasons you do, Richard, but now that I know it's not exactly beyond my financial means might seriously consider one at some point in the not-too-distant future. I'll have to wait a year what w/the new house and all, but it's no longer out of the question!

Thanks for that link. It gives a veritable ton of info! :thumbsup:


----------



## REL

Here's after a few light coats of primer and remove the window masks.


----------



## Modeler1964

She's a thing-o-beauty laddie! I can also identify with the "moving" thing. We are moving this weekend.


----------



## Nova Designs

Wow, that vinyl cutter is so cool... I had no idea they were that inexpensive. And REL this thing is really moving along beautifully!


----------



## hell_fighter_8

Any updates?

Don't know about anybody else, but I find my self checking this site almost every day just to see progress.


----------



## REL

Updates will start again next week on this one. I had to order some supplies for it and they're not here yet.


----------



## REL

I'm starting the windows, and in the next few days I'll be working on the phaser strip, sanding it, blending it in, evening it out etc. and getting the detail layer on it.


----------



## REL

I finished placing all the windows, finally...and now I think I'm blind.


----------



## Griffworks

Hey look, all the lights are on! 


Lookin' more awesome all the time, Richard! Excellent work, as always. :thumbsup:


----------



## Guest

Your a braver soul that most REL, for which i think we can all be a bit thankful for :thumbsup: 

Outstanding work as usual.

Give them peepers a good rest mate, you have most certainly earned it !

go easy


----------



## REL

Got all the windows finished on the saucer.


----------



## Nova Designs

Wow, that looks fantastic!


----------



## lizzybus

Utterly astonishing! The talent being displayed on this board can be pretty frightening sometimes....

Rich


----------



## REL

Finished with the lower saucer. The phaser detail was the last thing I needed to do.


----------



## REL




----------



## Prince of Styrene II

Shiney & bumpy!!

Beautiful as always!


----------



## Mr. Canoehead

Gees I wish I had the space for one of these


----------



## Hand Solo

Mr. Canoehead said:


> Gees I wish I had the space for one of these


Coming next from Sovereign Replicas... the 1/650th Space Dock! :thumbsup:


----------



## Griffworks

Could you _imagine_?!?


----------



## REL

Actually I was thinking of the probe from Star Trek IV in 1/650 scale. I found something I could use as a starting point...if I could get it in my truck.


----------



## Prince of Styrene II

I dunno...

Do you think it's long enough??


----------



## uss_columbia

REL said:


> Finished with the lower saucer. The phaser detail was the last thing I needed to do.


Would you mind sharing how you did the phaser detail? (It's one thing I hadn't figured out back when I was working on my large-scale E-D.) Thanks


----------



## X15-A2

It would take a little while to cover that with greeblies... (re: post #206)


----------



## edwhitefire

I don't know if it's too late to make changes, but I believe the shape of the phaser arrays is awry. The strip that is the phaser banks is actually much flatter than you seem to have it; also it has a VERY small ridge line outlining it. The inidividual elements are more of a chain that, from a distance, looks like small separation lines. As well, a cross section of the phaser bank would be more like a speed-bump on a road than the bubbled shape that you have on your model. I've attached a pic from the photo survey that was done of the orginal E-D that was on display at the Christies auction as reference. If you would like I can supply other shots of the Phaser arrays from other angles so that you can see more of what they are like.


----------



## REL

Yeah I know, I was looking at that earlier. Of course it's not too late to change it though, it's not even glued on, it's just sitting there.


----------



## REL

edwhitefire said:


> I don't know if it's too late to make changes, but I believe the shape of the phaser arrays is awry. The strip that is the phaser banks is actually much flatter than you seem to have it; also it has a VERY small ridge line outlining it. The inidividual elements are more of a chain that, from a distance, looks like small separation lines. As well, a cross section of the phaser bank would be more like a speed-bump on a road than the bubbled shape that you have on your model. I've attached a pic from the photo survey that was done of the orginal E-D that was on display at the Christies auction as reference. If you would like I can supply other shots of the Phaser arrays from other angles so that you can see more of what they are like.



Ok I spent the last few hours making a new phaser ring. This is about as close as I can get it, but the profile is much lower than the last one. This will be molded, cast in resin, and when the resin is about 3/4 set up, I'll pull it from the mold, then I can bend it around on the hull kind of like a wet noodle, then when it sets up it'll be the right shape.


----------



## REL

I finished the phaser ring, I think this is pretty close as I don't know how ILM made their phaser rings. This will be the template for all of them, now I'll make the half circle end caps to go on each one.

Cool, thanks for the advice Ed, that's why I like to post my progress in case someone spots something.


----------



## Nova Designs

Nice!

Actually I was going to mention the phaser strip too... but I just thought you hadn't gotten to it. :thumbsup: 

Do you have Star Trek Mechanics 4? I think there are some good closeups of the phaser strips in that... of course all the ships have the _slightly_ different.

For example... here's a drawing of what the strip was supposed to look like on the D

http://www.lcarscom.net/fsd/art/images/ded-6.jpg

and here's a strip on Voyager....
http://employees.csbsju.edu/rsorensen/modelcitizen/trekships/intrepid/voy-edgephaser-stm0800.jpg

Pretty much the same design... but I'm not sure the 6-footer had those strips. I'll have to check my books at home.

So, here's one on the port strut of the 1701-D (4-footer I believe)
http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/articles/nebula/nebula-galaxy-aft.jpg

And here both the 4-footer and the Nebula, something similar to Voyager.
http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/articles/nebula/nebula-galaxy-underside.jpg


So I think maybe the 6-footer has slightly different strips than the 4 footer and later ships... probably was standardized by then.

In fact... here's the 6-footer from Generations... different strips
http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/scans/other/saucer-sep-generations.jpg

Ugh!

Hope that isn't too confusing. :wave:


----------



## Carson Dyle

Nova: the links to _ex-astris_ aren't working (at least not for me).


----------



## Nova Designs

Yeah they don't seem to like leeching. If you go to the main site and look at the Starship Gallery for the Galaxy and Nebula you can probably see them.

I can't rehost them here from work. Maybe tonight if tis really necessary.


----------



## uss_columbia

^^ If you use firefox, you can just drag the links to the address bar to open the link (I have my firefox configured to always open a new window). You can also drag them to the tab bar, I think (though not with my vertical tab setup).

For old-fashioned browsers, you have to copy and paste, which hobby talk makes a little harder with the "..." shortening. You could always drag the to the desktop (making links) and then click the links, though.


----------



## Nova Designs

Ah good one Columbia... I forgot about that trick! :thumbsup:


----------



## REL

Got the new phaser finished. I'll glue it in place over the weekend.


----------



## PixelMagic

Very nice, REL.


----------



## REL

Now I'm doing the phaser rings on the other parts of the ship. I made rounded off end caps that I'll put in place since the rings are different lengths.


----------



## REL

Lower saucer is finished.


----------



## GT350R_Modeler

Got the wallet at the ready!


----------



## Griffworks

Excellent! 

Will this have an optional open shuttlebay, REL?


----------



## DL Matthys

With the prospect of clear resins used and freindly for lighting as a end result. I just might want to get this one.
Looks ready enough for silicon... Let's get 'er done!


DLM


----------



## REL

Thank you I appreciate it.

I'm working on the details for the lower sec hull now.


----------



## Nova Designs

Man this is really fantastic! Is this going to be around the same price as your 1701-E?


----------



## edwhitefire

Wow, you managed to get some nice detail on the phasers!

I'd love to get one of these when you release them, but alas, I am a lowly illustrator/graphic artist that doesn't get paid very much, so I may not be able to afford it...


----------



## lmisner

Any thought to having a mod kit for the Future E-D?


----------



## REL

I'll be making 3 versions of this ship, the Nebula and the 3 nacelled ship seen in the last episode of TNG.

Here's the first casting of the lower sec hull. I'm molding the ship as I finish the separate parts.


----------



## REL




----------



## Griffworks

Oh, man! A _Nebula_, too!?! That's most tempting, as I like the _Nebula_ over the _Galaxy_ and an accurate _Nebula_ is something that's generally missing from most folks' models. Especially the saucer thickness/leading edge and the secondary hull shape and thickness. So many folks just use a basic _Galaxy_ secondary hull and leave it at that.


----------



## REL

The underside of the part. It's hard to get a good pic of the surface detail because of it's translucency. I'm using a 6oz E glass (4 layers) with a medium set epoxy, with chop strand reinforcement along the edges.


----------



## Nova Designs

It looks like ICE!


Man I could barely afford a 1701-D... a Nebula would be sooooooo awesome. But I'll be saving for a while just for this.


----------



## Prince of Styrene II

Yea, I'm in the same boat for this! I'd love a AGT!


----------



## REL

Here's the 3D printed nacelle, I figured I might as well have Max do it from a mesh
which will save me a lot of time.


----------



## drewid142

SWEET!

Where are you doing your printing? Do you know which machine is being used?


----------



## Atemylunch

drewid142 said:


> SWEET!
> 
> Where are you doing your printing? Do you know which machine is being used?


It was on a Z-Corp 310 plus, in my living room.


----------



## REL

It's all cleaned up now.


----------



## REL

This process works so well I can't believe it, Max could literally print out a 1/350 TOS E and I could have it cleaned up in kit form in about a week....if I were so inclined.


----------



## Trek Ace

Tease.


----------



## Guest

He is isn't he 

Just had a look at a UK based site that sells these printers, take a look at the movie on the bottom right.
It's one heck of an impresive bit o' work and REL saying about being able if inclined to knock out a TOS E in a short time is no idle talk !

3D Zprinter 310 plus 

I'd need a lottery win to have one but to be honest, this is one VERY nice piece of kit 

Go easy


----------



## Prince of Styrene II

That is just amazing!!!  It just seems so simple & it looks so good when it's cleaned up!


----------



## actias

OHHHH PLEASE PRINT OUT A 1/350 TOS ENTERPRISE! Many have tried and none have succeeded (Except for some garbage!!!!)


----------



## Nova Designs

I would order that right now!


Actually I'd order this 1701-D right now... if it was finished 


Seriously though, looks like that nacelle came out beautifully!


----------



## Nova Designs

BTW,

You can print this out! :wave: 

TOS 1701 version 3


----------



## REL

If you're willing to let us use the mesh absolutely we can print it out.. The only thing is, if there's one tiny weeny thing wrong with it, an 18 page thread will develop shortly thereafter pointing that out LOL.


----------



## Nova Designs

Well, I could tweak it a little bit more for accuracy. But, 95% of the people on the web would never be able to tell the difference.

But in the end, I don't give a HOOT what anyone else thinks if it will get me an Enterprise in 1/350th scale! :wave:


----------



## Ohio_Southpaw

Nova Designs said:


> Well, I could tweak it a little bit more for accuracy. But, 95% of the people on the web would never be able to tell the difference.
> 
> But in the end, I don't give a HOOT what anyone else thinks if it will get me an Enterprise in 1/350th scale! :wave:



It's not the 95% you have to worry about. It's the other rabid 5% that will bring you nightmares.


----------



## ClubTepes

I've long thought that this was the future of modeling.

For example, if you wanted a model of a Klingon D-7, you take the pattern to your local hobby shop and they print it out for you.

For those of you who (for some reason don't care about scale -  ) want a model 12in. long to fit on your self, you can get it printed out that size (in either built or unbuilt options).

And finally FINALLY you can get your favorite subject in any scale you want, you simply resize the pattern to the appropiate scale.

REL,

I've begun dabbling into all the rapid prototyping issues and one I've been curious about was using say a 3D mesh like what Nova is suggesting.

One thing I've enountered in my research is that a model typically has to be 'closed', and 3D modelers typically don't worry about that when building their models. I'm having to rework some of my LW models to accomidate this.

Can softwares extrapolate the 'outer' shape of an 'unclosed' model and create the appropiate information for the 3D printers (and SLA's) to create the shapes.

Also, what I've heard so far is that 3D printers resolutions don't (or can't match) the resolutions of SLA's. There by needing more cleanup than the SLA process.

What you take on the whole thing?


----------



## REL

I'm not sure how all the computer end of it goes, I'm just a simple sculptor LOL, you'll have to ask Max how that works.

The lower saucer mold is finished.


----------



## REL

Finished with the detailing on the bottom of the nacelle.


----------



## fokkerpilot

Fine work Richard :thumbsup:


----------



## edwhitefire

REL!!! Don't go to press yet! 
I noticed that on your bottom of the nacelle, behind the field generator (the red part that lights up) and in front of the bussard collector (the ribs that go around the entire nacelle) you put 3 (three) indentations, each with a split down the center. This is incorrect! That detail is only on the TOP of the nacelle and not on the bottom (see attached pics). Also, they are not bisected as you show them, rather they are single trenches that are slightly deeper than you show them (see attached pic).
Secondly, around the field generators (red part, see above ref) there are "panel" lines (for lack of a better term) that surround the entire nose piece (again, see attached).
Thirdly, around the base plate that is on the bottom of the nacelle there are supposed to be panel lines on the side of the plate with small greebly details that are supposed to be explosive charges for detaching the nacelles from the ship in case of emergency. This detail was on the original E-D model, but not replicated on the second one for some odd reason. I have a photo depicting this, but it is currently out of reach. I am attaching a detail from my E-D drawings that shows these.
Finally, I'm not sure that this was just an oversight or was meant to be added later, but in the side of the wedge shaped transition piece from the nacelle to the pylon there is a divot (indention); inside the divot is supposed to be a circular docking port for a shuttle pod to attach to for servicing purposes (see attached photo). Also in the pics you will notice a few extra raised panels that were not originally present on the first model but added to the second; based on this, if you were to leave them off of your model it would easily be excused (besides, they are VERY thin and almost indiscernible).
Hope this helps your effort?

Ed Whitefire


----------



## REL

Thank you for the help Ed, the nose cone is actually upside down in my photo there, I was just showing it with the bottom of the nacelle, I don't have those indents on the other side. The split you see is a pencil mark, it's not a scribed line. 

I didn't know about the explosive bolts, and it's not too late to put them on there, and I'll go by your drawing thanks for that. Also, the nose cone isn't quite ready yet, I haven't scribed the detail onto it yet with those panels you mentioned. The shuttle pod indent is something I've made separately that will be put on tomorrow with a small PE part.

Thanks for the help.


----------



## REL

I made the indents deeper on the nacelle support.


----------



## REL

First casting of the lower saucer.


----------



## edwhitefire

Wow! It's too bad you didn't make the Captains Yacht separately. Were you going to make the Primary hull separatable from the secondary hull at the top of the neck? I thought that's what you were planning in looking at your earlier build-ups.


----------



## X15-A2

Just out of curiosity, do you vacuum bag your mold when you lay up the glass?

Phil


----------



## Lou Dalmaso

the burning question is....

what happened to the Dr. Pepper? Don't tell me you've developed a "Coke" habit....


----------



## vaderknight

Excellent job, REL!!
Have you worked on the upper saucer yet?


----------



## REL

I put in the docking port and windows on the underside of the nacelle.


----------



## Prince of Styrene II

There's a docking port on the nacelle?!?!  

huh.

Go figure.


Nifty!


----------



## GT350R_Modeler

I'd imagine that if you docked there and had to walk down the catwalk of the nacelle, not only would it be pretty hot, but it might take you a while.


----------



## Lou Dalmaso

I'm more bugged about the windows.

I can imagine a time when you might need to take a pod out to the nacelle to do some work on it and don't want to risk transporting ( or need to carry equipment) but would you really need to stop and take in the view while you are there? 

or maybe they finally found a room for Barclay


----------



## Johnnyb1

Hey Rel, 

When will these be ready for pre-order. John. :thumbsup:


----------



## zysurge

Who's to say there isn't an auxiliary control room in the nacelle? Why not provide windows to the poor guys who have to work there?

Didn't they show a control room in the nacelles of the NX-01, as well as the E-D? In the NX-01, they hid in the nacelles and also had panels there. On the E-D, some guy committed suicide by jumping into the plasma stream in the nacelle.

Eric


----------



## edwhitefire

Don't forget the explosive bolts around the baseplate!


----------



## REL

I didn't.


----------



## Hand Solo

edwhitefire said:


> Don't forget the explosive bolts around the baseplate!


*" Ja. Und there vill be... explosif boltsss on thee.... space-croft... "* :woohoo: 

~ Werner Von Braun's engineer, at the McDonnell Plant, regarding the Mercury Capsule, _The Right Stuff_.


----------



## edwhitefire

This model just keeps getting better and better!


----------



## Nova Designs

Hell yeah, that looks awesome!


----------



## REL

Thanks everyone , it's a labor of love.



X15-A2 said:


> Just out of curiosity, do you vacuum bag your mold when you lay up the glass?
> 
> Phil


No, although I am looking into something like that for my larger projects coming up. My wife actually
does all the fiberglass casting.



vaderknight said:


> Excellent job, REL!!
> Have you worked on the upper saucer yet?


The upper saucer will be next. I needed to make the lower saucer first so I could cut out the neck area
so I would have a perfect profile for the dorsal connection between the sec hull and saucer. So the way it 
works was to cut out that notch, and that now has become the lower part of the neck, then I can fine tune
the join so when the ship is connected it will look like a fine line.



Johnnyb1 said:


> Hey Rel,
> 
> When will these be ready for pre-order. John. :thumbsup:


Not yet, but soon.


----------



## Lou Dalmaso

Good God, man...
did you just say LARGER projects coming up?

finally getting to that 650 scale Death Star? :freak:


----------



## Prince of Styrene II

zysurge said:


> Didn't they show a control room in the nacelles of the ... E-D? On the E-D, some guy committed suicide by jumping into the plasma stream in the nacelle.


That control room was in the front of the nacelle, between the bussard & the warp coils.


----------



## X15-A2

Your WIFE does the fiberglass work???

Crap, all the good ones are taken already...


----------



## REL

Thanks.

The first nacelle cast.


----------



## REL




----------



## REL




----------



## Prince of Styrene II

Rel, once again I have to say I am just floored by the talents you have! You & the wife do amazing work together!


----------



## edwhitefire

VERY nice detailing on the nacelle! What did you make the connector between the nacelle nose and the body from?


----------



## Griffworks

Schweet! I never knew that detail piece was there on the upper back nacelle. Very kewel, REL!


----------



## jay_barnes

Griff, I think that may have been added to the six foot D when they repainted it for Generations. I don't remember seeing it during the TV series...I could be wrong though.


----------



## edwhitefire

Jay, you're correct. It wasn't there during the series. It used to be a small (small, reeeeaaally small) dome light, but it grew up and matured into an adult light made of nurnies...


----------



## edwhitefire

Rel, I have some news for you regarding this build up: I recently had a chance to view the original molds for the 4' E-D model and noticed something VERY interesting... the Aztec pattern was not painted on—it was applied on the surface as surface detailing and painted afterwords! In the same way that you are doing the windows, they did the aztec pattern all over the ship! I don't know why they would make the Aztec pattern as a surface detail on the 4' model as I know they didn't do this in reviewing pics of the 6' model. Just thought I'd let you know what I had found.


----------



## Nova Designs

edwhitefire said:


> Rel, I have some news for you regarding this build up: I recently had a chance to view the original molds for the 4' E-D model and noticed something VERY interesting... the Aztec pattern was not painted on—it was applied on the surface as surface detailing and painted afterwords! In the same way that you are doing the windows, they did the aztec pattern all over the ship! I don't know why they would make the Aztec pattern as a surface detail on the 4' model as I know they didn't do this in reviewing pics of the 6' model. Just thought I'd let you know what I had found.


I _think_ that was already known... and is cited as one of the biggest gripes about the 4-foot model. Evidently they did it to make the model look more detailed. All they succeeded in doing is make an enormous and graceful starship look like a really small model.


----------



## jsnmech18

Nova Designs said:


> I _think_ that was already known... and is cited as one of the biggest gripes about the 4-foot model. Evidently they did it to make the model look more detailed. All they succeeded in doing is make an enormous and graceful starship look like a really small model.



iirc in the TNG box sets, the make a comment about that model. The desire to make it more detailed is correct, inspired by SW I beleive is what was referenced. It's been a while since I last watched that particular extra...
Regardless, I always though it looked "rough" as opposed to the larger model. Almost unfinished?

Oh I almost forgot...Rel, she is looking awesome! I can't wait to see her all finished, parked along side your E-E!


----------



## REL

Small update.

More parts will arrive this week for the nacelle that were grown from CG files. The aztec pattern masks are nearly complete, they'll be included in the kit, and the decals design is almost finished. I still expect a completion date by the end of the year.


----------



## DL Matthys

Nova Designs said:


> I _think_ that was already known... and is cited as one of the biggest gripes about the 4-foot model. (


Yep that was well known by season 3 or 4...whatever. Richard has the ILM hero model finish surface going pretty well...That sets the standard...that's what I like.

BTW I did get my hands on a "Smoothy" AMT test shot...devoid of all aztec engravings...Would be fun to try building that. :thumbsup: 

Don Matthys 
dba Don's Light and Magic 
www.DLMparts.com 
[email protected] 
Make it Glow!


----------



## REL

Messing around with the lighting, I masked it off and sprayed it with primer real quick to block the light then mounted two 5mm red LED's inside and here's the result. The whole nosecone is cast in clear.


----------



## Prince of Styrene II

Now that is a fabulous looking piece! The clear cast is frosted just right! Absolutely beautiful!!


----------



## Griffworks

That looks great, REL. Betch'll sell a lot of these. Just the wrong scale for me, personally, but it'll make for impressive displays, regardless!


----------



## REL

I'm nearly finished with the neck, and I'll try and get the upper saucer finished by this week.


----------



## KUROK

Suh-WEET !!!


----------



## Mr. Canoehead

Show that pic to anyone else and they'll think it's pre-production of the next-gen series


----------



## Nova Designs

Yeah, that thing is a full-sized filming miniature!


----------



## Vaderman

"Who da man?.....You da man!"


Awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Scott


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## Prince of Styrene II

Nova Designs said:


> Yeah, that thing is a full-sized filming miniature!


No joke! Seeing you holding the master truly puts it all into perspective on just how huge it really is! Astounding!!


----------



## REL

I'll be working on this over the next month and getting it finished.


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## Raist3001

Rich, your work never ceases to amaze me. 

You truly are quite gifted.


----------



## REL

I got the shuttlebay cut outs in the neck and did the hull paneling.


----------



## REL

Update.


----------



## REL

Update.


----------



## Carson Dyle

Rich, your kick-ass modeling skills almost make up for that crappy design, lol.

Seriously, I can't wait to see this sucker all lit up. 

Thanks for keeping us posted.


----------



## Nova Designs

Personally I love the design... and I think Richard is really doing it justice!


----------



## REL

Got more detail on the neck finished.


----------



## Carson Dyle

Nova Designs said:


> Personally I love the design... and I think Richard is really doing it justice!


I loathe the design... and I think Richard is really doing it more justice than it has any right to expect.

Honestly, you know a modeler has talent when he makes you want to plunk down a chunk o' cash for a design you can't f***ing stand.


----------



## REL

I'm starting to work on the spine now.


----------



## scifieric

Man, Rel! That looks fabulous!


----------



## Captain America

Beautiful. :dude: 

REL, questions:

I wanted to try my hand at reshaping the Enterprise A's saucer(AMT/ERTL version) to look more akin to the Excelsior's shape...

I'm guessing that the 'ribs' were just cut styrene, but...

1. What kind of foam did you use on this? 
Did it come in BLOCKS you cut/sanded to shape, or was it one of those 2 part liquid foams?

2. Was it hard to use the fiberglass? 

Be Well, and good luck on the Big Lady...

Greg


----------



## REL

Thanks, another update.


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## DL Matthys

I think by June I should like to have our good King George W send my Economic Stimulus Package check direct to you Richard.

DLM


----------



## REL

Thanks. Lots of windows.


----------



## Daikaiju1

DL Matthys said:


> I think by June I should like to have our good King George W send my Economic Stimulus Package check direct to you Richard.
> 
> DLM


Are we talkin' in code?!


----------



## Prince of Styrene II

Daikaiju1 said:


> Are we talkin' in code?!


uhh... You know people are going to recieve a multi-hundred dollar check from the government this summer, right?


----------



## Daikaiju1

I'm in Australia, Dude. Not sure if our Govt. knows what day it is yet, they are still on hols....


----------



## John P

^To translate: The president is letting us have a tax rebate. Should come to a few hundred dollars per person.


----------



## Daikaiju1

OK, thank you.


----------



## REL

Up close pics of the windows.


----------



## actias

Beautifull Richard! How do you lift the window masks off without getting ragged edges from the primer coat?


----------



## MartinHatfield

He does it "Vewwwy Caiwfuwwwy", huhuhuhuhuhuhu


----------



## DL Matthys

actias said:


> Beautifull Richard! How do you lift the window masks off without getting ragged edges from the primer coat?


Seriously... this is a easy skill to master...lay out some 3M blue or Tamiya tape on any 'ol shape and give it a shot...*Of Primer* from a rattle can. 30 minutes later lift it off with a sharp fresh point of a #11 Exacto blade.

DLM


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## KUROK

Beautiful work, Rich!

Ever jump on that trampoline where these pics are taken?


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## edwhitefire

RIch!
OMG!!!
WAIT! There is a correction! On the spine of the engineering hull you have two little ports that have greeblies in them. This is NOT what they were supposed to be like! Originally, on the 6-foot model (the original model of the ship) these were supposed to be long divots that angled down from the surface skin, much like aerial refueling ports on jet fighters (see attached picture). That is the way I drew them on my plans since I only had the original model to work from. The ports were actually facing the stern of the ship and were meant to be Emergency Deuterium vent ports. When they rebuilt the model as a 4-footer for the 3rd season they put the ports in, but added some nurnies to the space thus changing the function of the port, however, the ports were still there in their original shape. How you choose to treat this is your decision, but I think you should really study the pics I am sending you to determine what action you might want to take.
Believe me when I say that I applaud your work on this model: I have a feeling that it will actually be THE definitive E-D when it is complete as it will take into account both the old and the new design materials that were used.


----------



## REL

I'm trying to get this as close to the Generations version as possible, and actually tracked down the kit pieces that went in those slots, then used smaller versions. 


I've gotten most of the detail scribing finished on the underside of the neck.


----------



## Carson Dyle

I take it you're using the tape method on those panel lines? 

Do you use Duplicolor "filler" primer to build up the surrounding (non-taped) areas or the lighter "finishing" primer?

Also, please remind me a) how many primer coats do you apply to achieve the desired depth of line, b) how long to you allow between primer coats, and c) how long do you allow the primer to set before pulling up the tape?

I want to get your technique on the record here, because whatever you're doing is delivering a fantastic result.


----------



## REL

This one I used a combo of two techniques. The part in red was the tape method, the part in black was regular hand scribing using a vinyl template that I laid down on the hull, then using a xacto I cut guide lines, peeled off the vinyl, then scribed it with the dental type scribing tool I got from MicroMark.

The primer method I use Duplicolor gap filling primer, spray on 4 relatively light coats, and wait until each coat is dry to the touch, but not fully cured. After the 4th coat, when it's dry to the touch I peel the masking off, leaving the indented detail. 

Then wait until it's fully cured, and sand it with a fine sanding sponge to knock down the edges left from peeling the tape off. If you wait until the paint is fully cured before you peel the mask off, it will leave ragged edges, so always peel it off when it's dry to the touch.


----------



## Carson Dyle

Thanks, Rich.

Working on that Naboo ship has really forced me to hone my scribing technique(s), and I'm grateful for the help.


----------



## Carson Dyle

Just curious; why did you use two different techniques on the D? I ask because the width of line would seem to be the same in each case. Or were you just experimenting to see which approach worked best?


----------



## REL

Starting to place the windows.


----------



## SFCOM1

Drool!

I could imagine making a model of the Excelsior from Hidden Frontier with this (and the model has been tweaked for the new series) 

I'm no where as good as Rel!

What a job!


----------



## REL

Update. I just need to finish the nacelle, top saucer and underside of the pylons and I'm finished.


----------



## Carson Dyle

Seriously epic build, dude. :thumbsup:


----------



## REL

Thanks.

One more.


----------



## REL

The secondary hull and neck are finished and are ready for molding. Here's a composite shot making it look like it has two nacelles, since they're both the same I only needed one master.


----------



## REL

The neck mold is finished.


----------



## REL

And the sec hull.


----------



## Vaderman

:woohoo: WOW!


----------



## Roguepink

Doooood, love the blue. Excellent work, sir, most excellent.


----------



## REL

Thank you sir.

Here's the clear casting of the sec hull and neck, I haven't trimmed them yet. It's hard to see the detail because it's clear, but it's there.


----------



## lizzybus

Seriously some of the best model work i've ever seen.....

I'm awed by your talent sir.

Well done, and how long untill you do an Excelsior?:thumbsup:

Rich


----------



## REL

Here they are after a quick trim.


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## trekman

Richard You are the MAN! I have not seen anyone to compare to your skills. Never leave us alone!


----------



## Johnnyb1

Nice work Richard...I can't wait to get my hands on one.


----------



## REL

thank you.

Starting on the top saucer (again, I messed up on the first one)


----------



## Garbaron

it's... BIG....


----------



## REL

I'm putting the grid pattern on now.


----------



## REL




----------



## REL

About halfway through on the windows.


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## Vaderman

Amazing! Will you be doing the phaser strip the same way you did on the lower saucer?

Scott


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## REL

Yes.

Now to primer it.


----------



## REL

After removing the masking.


----------



## SteveR

Aye, she's a be-ooooty!


----------



## REL

Update.


----------



## Mr. Canoehead

Gees I wish I could get one of these...
Never noticed the three rows of lifeboats on either side of the shuttlebay before.
Insperational work.


----------



## edwhitefire

Rel,
PLEASE WAIT!!!! The contours of the upper blister are incorrect. The lifeboats are further away from the oversize turbolifts (the large ovals p/s) and are along the same lines with them (see attached picture). Also, the upper edge of the blister is too sharp all around; it should be a MUCH softer radius all around. The blister also needs to have considerably more flat space overall (please see attached pictures). All in all, the entire upper blister is WAY too tall. I think it would behoove you to redo this part of the saucer?

Ed


----------



## REL

Thanks, I already figured that out when I looked at the photo's, I've been redoing it all morning.


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## charonjr

Wow! REL I'm committing myself to getting your 1701E, D and Excelsior 350 as they become available. Your work is just impeccable! I'll be sending you an order for the E as soon as I can clear funds for it.

I'm in Heaven....


----------



## bigdaddydaveh

Rel, 
Sorry if this has been asked and answered before... What are you using to build up the surface to create the recessed panel lines and windows? It would appear that you are using masking tape and building up the surrounding areas with some sort of sandable primer leaving raised panels when the masking is removed?


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## Prince of Styrene II

That's exactly how he's doing it, Dave. (By the way, how's it going? Gonna go to WF this year?)

REL, I have to say, your work is impeccable! I'm always floored at the work whenever I return to this thread.

By the way, the Dutchess thinks it halarious that you have the same DVD remote that we have! :lol: It really dives home just how huge this pup is!


----------



## DarthSideous

Can we still order the Enterprise D? I am amazed there is going to be an Excelsior 1/350 scale produced? Please let me know if this is true. I'm interested in ordering both the D and Excelsior.


----------



## drewid142

for those that may have missed this....

http://customreplicas.com/index.htm

1/350 Scale B, C, and E ! AND a 50 inch Enterprise A !


----------



## DarthSideous

Thanks for reposting that info.


----------



## REL

Yes, I'll working with Jim at Custom Replicas to make the entire 1/350 fleet. The Excelsior/Ent B is next in line, then the Ent C, and finally the E-E.


----------



## Carson Dyle

Wow, a 1/350 _Excelsior_. That's awesome. Put me on the list, lol.


----------



## REL

Saucer is finished, and ready for molding.


----------



## Vaderman

:woohoo:What is there to say? You are the Master of models!

Scott


----------



## Mr. Canoehead

REL said:


> The Excelsior/Ent B is next in line,


I wonder if it will be able to convert to the NX-2000 version


----------



## vaderknight

REL said:


> Yes, I'll working with Jim at Custom Replicas to make the entire 1/350 fleet. The Excelsior/Ent B is next in line, then the Ent C, and finally the E-E.


Uhhhhh................I must be missing something here. Didn't you already make the E-E?


----------



## REL

I finished the details on the lower pylon section.


----------



## Mr. Canoehead

Rel I am curious what has been the toughest model you've made thus far..?


----------



## REL

This one by far. It's all sculpture, very organic.


----------



## actias

BEAUTIFUL! Whats the price on one of these babies.:thumbsup:


----------



## drewid142

yes... Vadernight... you did miss something... this is a 1/350 scale E-E were talking about... 77 inches looooooong!

http://customreplicas.com/index.htm


----------



## Jafo

just plain wow


----------



## charonjr

what other Trek models are in 1/650?


----------



## REL

Here's the saucer mold with it's jacket. I used cheapo Home Depot fiberglass for the mothermold, I did it outside because it's so nasty, it set up a lot faster than I'm used to that's why it looks so lumpy. But I got 4 layers on there, so it's plenty strong.

I'll post the pics of what the inside looks like later one after I remove the mold from the master.


----------



## Carson Dyle

Aren't you done with this thing yet? Pull the lead out, dude.


----------



## DROIDR2

Looks great REL. :thumbsup:

What kind of release agent do you use on something that big?


----------



## REL

Just baby powder. And here it is after taking it off the master.


----------



## Prince of Styrene II

Oooo! <claps> It's pretty!!

I want one!



After I win the lottery.


----------



## Garbaron

Where are the impulse engine cutouts on the saucer?


----------



## REL

Those will be cut out on the finished casting to make sure they're perfectly aligned with the bottom.


----------



## REL

Here's the top saucer casting.


----------



## Lou Dalmaso

It looks like a delicate Ice sculpture.

Be-yoottiful


----------



## REL

Thanks. This is the casting I made that will be cut up for the access hatches, so I didn't spend a lot of time on it.


----------



## charonjr

The reason I was curious about the 1/650 scale is that I've heard the AMT kits of the Refit and the Reliant were in that scale. But when I run the calculator I get the 22" Refit (1000 feet) at 1/531. Am I off somewhere? This is not intended as a criticism of RELs wonderful work. Just asking for some information.


----------



## SteveR

If I recall, the refit/reliant are 1/537 and the old TOS Enterprise is sort of 1/650. Here's an article:
http://www.starshipmodeler.com/trek/trekscales.htm

Keep in mind that the scale of the Klingon BOP is rather meaningless.


----------



## charonjr

Thanks SteveR!

Yes, for 947 feet, an 18 inch model is 1/631.3333..... Close Enough! I just wish Thomas Models had completed his 18" Anal Enterprise to put up against these, soon-to-be, drainers of my checking account.


----------



## Trek Ace

The AMT kit measures out at just a hair over 17-7/8", or 1/635 scale. Even closer!


----------



## REL

Update.

I have the neck attached to the sec hull on the build up I'm doing, and I've finished the deflector. I will begin working on the armature design now.


----------



## REL

All the components of the sec hull are finished and cast. Sorry for the bad pic quality I forgot to bring my camera so I used my phone.


----------



## Prince of Styrene II

Hmmm... not bad pics for a phone!

Excellent as always, REL! Now I just need to rob a bank.


----------



## REL

I installed the metal brace for the pylons and installed heavy duty wiring.


----------



## SFCOM1

REL said:


> I installed the metal brace for the pylons and installed heavy duty wiring.


More Drool!:woohoo:


----------



## REL

Update. I got the pylons all attached and sanded in.


----------



## REL

I am now taking pre-orders on this kit, please email or PM me for details.


----------



## newbie dooby

PM sent!!!


----------



## DarthSideous

Likewise PM sent a couple days ago... great kit... get'em while you can!


----------



## REL

I got the main deflector molded.


----------



## newbie dooby

Hey Rel, I sent you a PM!


----------



## REL

I finsished the bridge, and here's a pic of the warp grill casting.


----------



## REL

Please visit this page for updates on all my projects, I'll update that page first and post on the boards last as I'm not going to have a lot of time to post to the boards much. 

Thanks

http://sovereignreplicas.com/sf.htm


----------



## Carson Dyle

Thanks, Rich. It's been a pleasure watching this amazing replica come together.

You should consider doing this modeling thing professionally.


----------



## Vaderman

Carson Dyle said:


> Thanks, Rich. It's been a pleasure watching this amazing replica come together.
> 
> You should consider doing this modeling thing professionally.


I believe that is his plan.


----------



## REL

I had to post this, I finally got all the pieces finished and taped/clamped together a mock up.


----------



## Vaderman

That is incredible!!!!!!!!!


----------



## mikephys

Amazing. Aside from the gorgeous workmanship, I can't believe how big that baby is!


----------



## REL

Thanks guys, I'm just happy it's nearly over, lol.


----------



## Vaderman

Are you lighting and painting her or just painting her?


----------



## REL

This will be lit and painted with dry transfer decals. Also, it will have a welded aluminum armature with a detachable saucer section. It'll also have access hatches built in to access electronics etc down the road in case they ever burn out etc.


----------



## Vaderman

REL said:


> This will be lit and painted with dry transfer decals. Also, it will have a welded aluminum armature with a detachable saucer section. It'll also have access hatches built in to access electronics etc down the road in case they ever burn out etc.



Is that for a saucer separation effect or for stability of the model and transportation of the model? I like the idea that you will use dry transfer decals on her. Definitely shows that this is a higher end kit.

Scott


----------



## charonjr

When can I buy one?


----------



## REL

Got the aluminum pieces to the armature in from the machinist. Here's some of the one's for hte saucer.


----------



## Nova Designs

WOW! That's not messing around!


Impressive


----------



## Mr. Canoehead

The Armature and the hatches for quick access are these just for special order or are they part of the package offered?


----------



## REL

Here's the clear bridge casting, this is pressure cast epoxy fiberglass.


----------



## edwhitefire

WOW! That's so cool! It looks neat clear and small. That is about half the size of the one that I have! (mine was an early casting for the first large model and is opaque)


----------



## REL

Since the lower sec hull will be bolted to the upper section, not glued in place, for easy access later on. I can't use putty to fill in around the deflector, so I have to very carefully trim the fiberglass where the deflector goes, so the pieces fit together almost seamlessly. The deflector is permanently attached to the upper part, but has to float free on the bottom.


----------



## REL

Working on the sec hull armature.


----------



## REL

Here's the revised main saucer armature plate that came in today.










Here's the CG file of the armature which was used to machine the aluminum parts.


----------



## Carson Dyle

Amateur City, dude. You need to start taking this modeling thing more seriously.



Hey, did you work up the CG renders on your own? If so, what software are you running?


----------



## REL

Thanks! Jim Key did the animation, he's helping out with the armature design. He used Rhino to do that.


----------



## Lou Dalmaso

you will cut out the area where the deflector "dish" goes, right?


----------



## Griffworks

Awesome! Viagra for your E-D model! No sagging here, bay-bee! :lol:


----------



## REL

Got some of the armature welded together today. This is a new skill for me so please be kind,lol.


----------



## Mr. Canoehead

Looks like the shoe fits..


----------



## Nova Designs

Now you're welding? Man you do it all!


----------



## REL

Update. All the major pieces are ready for assembly and now I'll begin to install the lighting system.


----------



## mikephys

Talent, skills, tools, technique... all incredible. Wow.


----------



## ModelN00b

Darn you! I wantz...


----------



## Richard38

Richard,

Damn that is looking outstanding !!!

you are just too good lol

Richard


----------



## Prince of Styrene II

Holy snap! That thing is just way too cool & ginormus!!! Oh man, I need to win the lottery!

And are you starting a humongo Defiant, too??? I see what looks like masters back there.


----------



## charonjr

Darn, I've GOT to get a job! How else can I afford an awesome beauty such as yours?


----------



## REL

Got the last pieces of the ship finished today, the saucer impulse engines and the dorsal photon launcher. The main shuttlebay doors will be a piece of styrene with lines in it.


----------



## Griffworks

Awe inspiring work, as always REL! You are truly a master of the art. We lowly Kit Assemblers are not worthy! :thumbsup:


----------



## Prince of Styrene II

Honestly, I'm still stunned.


----------



## Prowler901

*Yow!!*

Holy Frakin' Crap!!:freak:

[Wayne's world]We're not worthy! We're not worthy! We Suck![/Wayne's world]

Rich, your skills never cease to amaze me :thumbsup:

Todd


----------



## dan1701d

Truely awesome work, cant wait to see more updates.:thumbsup:


----------



## Garbaron

Wish I had the money and more importantly display space to get one of these. 

Am truly in awe about your skills.


----------



## falcon49xxxx

Richard,you need to learn how to build models..............





fantastic!I do need those blueprints back at some point.Alex


----------



## REL

Alex, I'll send those back this week.


----------



## REL

I'm working on the aztec pattern, and paint now. 












Here's a paint test on the back of the dorsal section.


----------



## Vaderman

That is just amazing.


----------



## vaderknight

Any new updates?


----------



## ThisGuy

Beautiful work. Looks ready for filming!

I wish it were a Nebula, though.


----------



## Vaderman

From what I understand, Jim Key has picked it up and will be making the final finishing touches to it. Jim Key will probably have updates at ib the future for it.

www.customreplicas.com

Scott


----------



## vaderknight

So Sovereign Replicas is just making the molds and Custom Replicas is finishing the actual prototype?


----------



## Vaderman

I think it was just that specific model that Custom Replicas picked up. I don't think that REL is going to be producing this as a kit anymore. You should contact him via PM here.

Scott


----------



## GT350R_Modeler

Bump.....many years later. Any news at all on this?


----------



## joey_d11119

Was this ever finished? Anyone have an unbuilt kit out there?


----------



## jgoldsack

This went the way of the dodo.


----------

