# Polar Lights discontinued Status. Who's Next



## MEGA1 (Jul 18, 2000)

Hello we went to toy fair and met with RC2 as far as polar lights kits go the following are still in the line Trek stuff but not pushing it too hard not a pic of the new enteprise anywhere, homer, BTF car, Speed Racer cars, great american ride series. All the other nascar, snap car kits, sci-fi ships, seaview and all figures kits have been discontinued including the new captain. I have a flyer that has listed a New 18" king kong with girl, wonder women and superman listed but were cancelled too bad, polar lights had some good things going there. Who will be the next Polar lights? that is the question I wonder. We have some remaining stock left get them while you can the molds may not see the light of day for a long time. Just put polar in the search box. http://www.Megahobby.com


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## JamesDFarrow (Sep 18, 1999)

18" King Kong with girl - cancelled!!!!

I think that would have sold well with the new King Kong movie due out.

And with Jackson doing it, it's, even though this may sound strange,
already being slated as a smash hit.

Also, if eveything is cancelled or discontinued, why would PL come back as a sponsor if they have no new products scheduled. Sounds strange to me.

James


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## MonsterModelMan (Dec 20, 2000)

Too bad! 

But we knew this was going to happen...just a shame it became a reality!

I'm glad for what we have gotten to this point with PL. I really loved what they gave us...too bad the run is over!

All good things come to an end.....

MMM


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## Griffworks (Jun 24, 2002)

:Sigh: A lot of the worst fears are becoming reality, I guess. Oh, well....


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Mega, punctuation can be your friend! :freak:


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## MEGA1 (Jul 18, 2000)

*Dont give up hope.*

RC2 with Tom lowe at the helm may just be regrouping and getting things in order they were real nice at the show our rep was great from Iowa no surprise there. Time will tell good luck to them. Tom Lowe may just be the *leadership* they need in there model division. RC2 is a big company with lots of brands.


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## MEGA1 (Jul 18, 2000)

*punctuation*

John P. My punctuation stinks, I can only focus on one thing at a time spelling. I promise to work on it.


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## Admiral Nelson (Feb 28, 2002)

*John is just grumpy.......*



MEGA1 said:


> John P. My punctuation stinks, I can only focus on one thing at a time spelling. I promise to work on it.


 People who gripe about grammar have other issues. He'll be ok after his Prozac kicks in.


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## iamweasel (Aug 14, 2000)

Didnt they, wisely I may add, cancel Cap 20 minutes after it hit the shelves? After all you wouldn't want to wait 3 or 4 hours and see how it sells......that would be about as smart as a root canal with a screw driver.


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## dreamer (Jan 1, 1970)

MEGA1 said:


> All the other nascar, snap car kits, sci-fi ships, seaview and all figures kits have been discontinued including the new captain. I have a flyer that has listed a New 18" king kong with girl, wonder women and superman listed but were cancelled...


Exactly what I said in the other thread, and was chastised for. Real nice that RC2 has people _outside_ their business to spin for them, but it isn't worth much, is it?

Chris Doll's take on the financial state of things is undoubtedly spot on. Still, all I asked was that RC2 not lead us on with insincere commitments. Don't tell us we're going to continue to get the same sort of thing PL was doing when they have no intention of following up.

A little respect, not spin. Respect is mutual, and I gave my share in spades until now - with full support both here and at the cash register.

I'm not sying "Don't change the company". No one wants to see them go under, and we all understand they have to flex with the market. I'm just asking that they be honest about it.


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## BatToys (Feb 4, 2002)

Wonder Woman and Superman? Repops? The Aurora Superman?
WB had given then the rights then? 

Thanks for the update.


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## Dave Hussey (Nov 20, 1998)

Hi Mega,

Not to hijack your thread, but what ever happened to the Flying Sub that RM was supposed to re-issue? It used to be in the "Coming Soon" page of your site. And did you ever get the Glencoe solar powered space station?

Back to Polar Lights, I hope you still have some stuff left. Sounds like I need to get those few things that I haven't picked up yet.

Huzz


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## Jimmy B (Apr 19, 2000)

MEGA1 said:


> John P. My punctuation stinks, I can only focus on one thing at a time spelling. I promise to work on it.


Your punctuation stinks?? I everytime I order a kit from you guys I have it in 3 days or less. It don't get more punctual than that.:thumbsup:


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## sbaxter at home (Feb 15, 2004)

John P said:


> Mega, punctuation can be your friend! :freak:


As can mashed potatoes! 

Qapla'

SSB


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## beck (Oct 22, 2003)

Jimmy , that's for sure . Mega , you guys do great on the turnaround for orders . 
well , hate to say it , but it looks like we want cars . no figures . we figure guys are just too small a niche to matter . looks like the resin heads will be getting my $$ . 
but , i must say it seems monumentally wrong to cancel the King Kong with the new movie coming . i bet they'll be wishing they hadn't when that flicks is rakin' in megamillions . 
hb


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## lonfan (Feb 11, 2001)

beck said:


> Jimmy , that's for sure . Mega , you guys do great on the turnaround for orders .
> well , hate to say it , but it looks like we want cars . no figures . we figure guys are just too small a niche to matter . looks like the resin heads will be getting my $$ .
> but , i must say it seems monumentally wrong to cancel the King Kong with the new movie coming . i bet they'll be wishing they hadn't when that flicks is rakin' in megamillions .
> hb


Perfectly Said Beckster! lol

J/L


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## MEGA1 (Jul 18, 2000)

I don't know if they were the auruora repops or not I believe revell has the molds for Superman, Wonder Woman I don't know who has the tooling. Kong was new tooling. Revell is *not going* to release the flying sub. Glencoe stuff just mysteriously shows up he has it listed so it should come out when I do not know. I did get in the three stage ferry rocket and some mini kits of historical cars, trains and wagons. Also the white house capitol building and the S.S. France.


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## Edge (Sep 5, 2003)

No Flying Sub! [Lando]This deal keeps getting worse all the time.[/Lando]

Well I ordered the Seaview and King Ghidorah at least.

Edge


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## BatFanMan (Aug 20, 1999)

> All the other nascar, snap car kits, sci-fi ships, seaview and all figures kits have been discontinued including the new captain. I have a flyer that has listed a New 18" king kong with girl, wonder women and superman listed but were cancelled too bad, polar lights had some good things going there.


 Wow, this is sad. I guess I didn't really think RC2 would go in right away with an axe and do away with everything. Capt America has already been cancelled? I knew WW didn't have much of a chance, mainly due to licensing. Oh well. Life goes on...to some extent.


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## Dave Metzner (Jan 1, 1970)

Much of the reason that kits are being dropped is that the licenses are expiring.
At Playing Mantis we had a one-man licensing comittee - Tom Lowe. If Tom wanted to do a project he handled the licensing end of things. If Tom liked a license we renewed it. A lot of those decisions were made by Tom with some advice from our legal people.
I don't think it is quite that simple at RC-2
I'm sure they are trying to digest their acquisition and determind a logical way to continue with Polar Lights.
I'm pretty sure that the reason Captain America is discontinued is that the liscense with Marvel has expired.
RC-2 does not move as fast as Playing Mantis did it's not in the nature of a large corporation to do things that way. 
To make a decision on new Polar Lights products in the good old days the meeting could be held in a closet, it just took Tom Lowe The VP of Operations and me. 
When we started Polar Lights it only took one guy to make a decision - Tom Lowe! I suspect that it takes a whole lot more people to move something at RC-2. That's not bad, it's just the way big corporations are.

Patience my friends let the folks at RC-2 have a little time They've only owned Polar Lights for 6 or 7 months it may take a while for them to figure things out


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## Otto69 (Jan 2, 2004)

Thanks for that explanation Dave, for uninformed observers like myself it helps put things in perspective. Hopefully they will do somehing with regard to new or rerelease kits in the next 6 months. At least in time for Xmas.


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## Brent Gair (Jun 26, 1999)

Dave Metzner said:


> Patience my friends let the folks at RC-2 have a little time They've only owned Polar Lights for 6 or 7 months it may take a while for them to figure things out


"Only" 6 or 7 months?

We aren't talking about building nuclear submarines or airliners. It's friggin' toys.

I would have assumed (quite incorrectly as we've seen demonstrated) that RC2 had some notion of what to do with Polar Lights BEFORE they bought it. Now we are supposed to give RC2 "a little" time to figure out the model business?

So...any guesses as to how much longer RC2 will need?


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## Griffworks (Jun 24, 2002)

Enhance your calm, Brent Gair.  They're only models and there are growing pains associated with any business. Remember, RC2 is a large corporation with many tenticles, so to speak. They've got to get used to this new appendage and figure out exactly how to make it work to their advantage. Hopefully, it won't take much longer and we'll start seeing more kits that we want to see.


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## CaptFrank (Jan 29, 2005)

> I would have assumed (quite incorrectly as we've seen demonstrated) that RC2 had some notion of what to do with Polar Lights BEFORE they bought it.


I seem to remember someone mentioning the only reason RC2 got their hands on Polar Lights was because it was a package deal to get the licensing rights to Johnny Lightning.

RC2 doesn't really want Polar Lights. They're just stuck with it. Probably.


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## B.Wildered (Apr 25, 2004)

I did not understand one word MEGA1 said. What the heck is going on????

Brian


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## BatFanMan (Aug 20, 1999)

CaptFrank said:


> I seem to remember someone mentioning the only reason RC2 got their hands on Polar Lights was because it was a package deal to get the licensing rights to Johnny Lightning.
> 
> RC2 doesn't really want Polar Lights. They're just stuck with it. Probably.


 That's what I was thinking. Who knows if they could have gotten Johnny Lightning WITHOUT Polar Lights.

Thanks for the clarification, Dave, but doesn't it seem that the Capt America licensed expired pretty quickly, if that's what happened? Seems like PL barely got it out the door and now it's gone? I realize that often licenses begin way before the model actually ships, but still, this seems too quick.

- Fred


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## Dave Hussey (Nov 20, 1998)

*Thanks MEGA*

Mega - thanks for the update.

I'm really wanting a Glencoe solar powered space station so please let us know if and when those little beauties arrive.

Huzz


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## Mike Warshaw (Feb 23, 1999)

Whether RC2 bought the company for Johnny Lightning or not, they've got PL now and they're likely to at least think about it before discarding it outright. Besides, all it needs to find new life is an advocate inside the company; somebody who has the energy to get behind it and the juice to be given a chance. Six or seven months really is no time at all. It even took PL longer than that to develop products -- they were talking about that big Seaview at least since they came out with the small one -- and they could hold a meeting in a closet.

The thing I keep coming back to is that this crowd here on the boards has such a weird perspective on this, having been so close to the inside of the company and now being thrust to the outside, looking in. There aren't even enough of us for our buying patterns to have the slightest effect on their product decisions. In fact, I'd guess that the opposite is true; that we have the opposite effect on the company than we intend. Even though it's a big company, any RC2 people who visit the boards do so one set of eyeballs at a time. 

They probably have so many other ways to take the pulse of their market, they don't feel any need to listen to us; if we're interesting, that's more than we have a right to expect. On the other hand, if it were me, I'd resent the complaints and criticisms as much as anyone and wouldn't feel like doing anything to help us. It's very unlikely that they believe their average buyer can be found here. We are so un-typical as buyers, so intimate with the company and its products and the hobby, that from their point of view, our demands are as likely to point out what not to do as to indicate what might work.

Time will tell, to sling a cliche.


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## Capt. Krik (May 26, 2001)

Dave Metzner said:


> When we started Polar Lights it only took one guy to make a decision - Tom Lowe! I suspect that it takes a whole lot more people to move something at RC-2. That's not bad, it's just the way big corporations are.
> 
> Patience my friends let the folks at RC-2 have a little time They've only owned Polar Lights for 6 or 7 months it may take a while for them to figure things out


Thank you for the info, Dave. I still remain optimistic about the buyout. Though the discontinuation of so many kits had me concerned. I know 6 or 7 months seems like a long time to many but things just don't always move that fast in big corporations. 
I'm still hoping RC2 will put more money in PL than Tom could afford to do. I will wait with patience to see what happens.


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## Ziz (Feb 22, 1999)

Griffworks said:


> They're only models and there are growing pains associated with any business. Remember, RC2 is a large corporation with many tenticles, so to speak. They've got to get used to this new appendage and figure out exactly how to make it work to their advantage.


Get used to it? It's a model division, same as AMT/Ertl. The only difference is the name and products. The mechanics of getting a product to market is the same. How much can there be to "get used to"?



Mike Warshaw said:


> Whether RC2 bought the company for Johnny Lightning or not, they've got PL now and they're likely to at least think about it before discarding it outright.


And they decided that the best way to do that was to get rid of every single person that made PL run?  Yeah, that's the way to plan ahead.



> Besides, all it needs to find new life is an advocate inside the company; somebody who has the energy to get behind it and the juice to be given a chance.


So, Lowe doesn't care about it anymore? He is the only one in there with any connection to PL in the first place.



> The thing I keep coming back to is that this crowd here on the boards has such a weird perspective on this, having been so close to the inside of the company and now being thrust to the outside, looking in. There aren't even enough of us for our buying patterns to have the slightest effect on their product decisions. In fact, I'd guess that the opposite is true; that we have the opposite effect on the company than we intend.
> 
> They probably have so many other ways to take the pulse of their market, they don't feel any need to listen to us; if we're interesting, that's more than we have a right to expect. It's very unlikely that they believe their average buyer can be found here. We are so un-typical as buyers, so intimate with the company and its products and the hobby, that from their point of view, our demands are as likely to point out what not to do as to indicate what might work.


Which is exactly why RC SHOULD care about our opinions - because we're NOT they're typical market. We can look at things from a different perspective, see things they don't, maybe even teach them about markets they don't know are there that could be very big, if only there was someone to cater to them.



> On the other hand, if it were me, I'd resent the complaints and criticisms as much as anyone and wouldn't feel like doing anything to help us.


See, if it was me, I'd take the complaints as a challenge to show the nay-sayers that there ARE people paying attention to them. By ignoring the people who complain, you're only justifying their perspective, that the company is a mindless entity that is only interested in TELLING customers what to buy, not ASKING them what they WANT to buy. You're not solving a problem, you're creating it, then complaining that the problem exists. 

"Suits" tend to fall in love with their own ideas, not because they're good or creative or original, but as a simple ego trip. They don't care about their customers or their product line. All they care about is their job security. As long as they keep making "hit" decisions, they get another paycheck. Anything they "accomplish" beyond that is gravy.

Brent is right. These big corporate takeover deals don't happen overnight. They had LOADS of time to evaluate every area of PM and start putting plans into motion. It seems obvious that their only plan was to reduce PL to nothing but a label to stick on boxes of the same recycled product they've been mindlessly pumping out for years to make it look like it's something new.


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## Opus Penguin (Apr 19, 2004)

Well this news doesn't really make me feel any better. I had high hopes for Polar Lights kits because they were very well detailed. Although Dave's news is not bad, it isn't good either. I guess time will tell, but I for one am not holding my breath for any of the kits I wanted to see.


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## Matthew Green (Nov 12, 2000)

I just hope PL puts out it's model kits that were done in the 90's again...They would sell...People just love Monsters!


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## Mike Warshaw (Feb 23, 1999)

Well, Ziz, we don't agree, but I respect you and it's a spirited discussion and that's why thee boards are fun.

I will say I believe that PL's an asset and RC2 employees are people, not faceless suits, and that I still believe we can't convince them we represent a bigger market when we are a small group of atypical fans trying to tell them what to do based on what a couple of hundred of us want to buy. 

My belief is that canning the people in South Bend had more to do with the way Tom Lowe cut the deal than with RC2'S intentions for the future of the PL line. After all, they definitely have plans for Johnny Lightning, so there's really no connection between that action and their intentions.

As far as Lowe pushing for PL, I doubt he's showing up in Oak Brook every day. I don't think he moved there or really works there like it's his job. His title is probably not much more than that. These deals tend to have clauses that control the payout based on the performance of the company over time and Tom probably has an office to attend meetings, but he's not the guy who's going to go, "I can really do something with this asset. It'll be fun and do well for the company and will be enjoyable and productive" -- the way Dean Milano was at Revellogram, or Kevin Burns at Fox, or John Eaves at Paramount -- all big companies with room for advocates to take a property and run with it.


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## Griffworks (Jun 24, 2002)

Ziz said:


> Get used to it? It's a model division, same as AMT/Ertl. The only difference is the name and products. The mechanics of getting a product to market is the same. How much can there be to "get used to"?


 Who's in charge of PL now? Is it the same person who was in charge of AMT/ERTL after RC2 bought it? Just how many model companies did RC2 own before purchasing PL and how many do they have now?

I'm willing to bet that, as I said, they're still not sure what to do with PL. I'd further be willing to bet that PL was an after thought - a bonus, if you will - to RC2's purchase of PM, especially in light of all the well-publicized commentary about Johnny Lightning apparently being the primary target for RC2. PL is also considerably smaller than AMT/ERTL when RC purchased that corporation. They're likely still trying to figure out if they want to keep PL and how they'll work it in to the overall corporate structure, if they do keep it.


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## Dave Metzner (Jan 1, 1970)

RC-2 / Amt/Ertl is above all a model car company. 

They've dabbled in sci fi and aicraft over the years but I'm pretty sure that all the sci fi folks went out the door in Dyersville three or four maybe even five years ago when they closed down that part of the business.

Now they've re-discovered sci-fi, sooner or later they'll get a grasp on the subject matter. It just takes time!

They need time to decide what to do -all this complaining about their decisions will not change them, and only serves to add to everybodies frustration.

Regarding Captain America he was not a separate license rather he was part of a larger Marvel license. He and Spider-man and Hulk along with licensed Snap Draggin "Marvel Machines" and a whole pot full of Johnny Lightning cars with Marvel decorations. as well as some flicker rings were all done on the same license. Most of those licenses have a three year life cycle. I'm pretty sure that the Marvel license was expiring.

Nothing sinister about that - Just Cap arrived at the end of the license cycle and it would appear that the license has not been renewed.

Dave


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## BatFanMan (Aug 20, 1999)

"Nothing sinister about that - Just Cap arrived at the end of the license cycle and it would appear that the license has not been renewed."


Ah, that makes sense. Thanks for the additional clarification. I'm assuming (though maybe I shouldn't), that Cap'n kit that have been produced and shipped will still be available on the shelves?

- Fred


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## iamweasel (Aug 14, 2000)

I got 2 Cap kits the other day from Mega, one that blue chase color, and I think it is a damn nice looking kit. The faces look a bit better then the early pictures did. One is really decent.


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## xr4sam (Dec 9, 1999)

Dave, you may be right, but WHY would AMT/ERTL buy out Esci, (back in the early 90s) and promptly do away with their line? Esci's primary line was aircraft and military, so they were no threat to AMT's cars. Of course, I still want an AMT B-52 and KC-135...

I have a nasty feeling that the same thing is going to happen to our beloved Polar Lights...here yesterday, gone today.

And, how do we know it's _really_ you, Dave? It could be some evil, faceless suit from RC2 imitating you.  The _real_ Dave Metzner could be locked in a room somewhere in RC2s headquarters, unable to communicate with us, or worse...build models! :lol:


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## lonfan (Feb 11, 2001)

OKAY SO why not Sugguest to "The Suits" To Release ALL Previous PL KITs (Figures) ALONG WITH A FREE Johnny Lightning Car?! Yeah Yeah That's The Ticket!

Just a thought! And they could Charge More! Yes?,No? LOL

JOHN/LONFAN


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## lonfan (Feb 11, 2001)

Oh and Are They Feeding you Okay Dave?

J/L


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## xsavoie (Jun 29, 1999)

Did the Johnny Lightning products keep Polar Lights afloat all these years,or did the Polar Lights kits pull their own weight.That is a valid question.Perhaps it will be the main factor when RC decides rather or not to keep the kit section active.I think that RC should keep the kit section alive as a pet project.They could learn a lot from the kit line.Normally Polar Lights in the other big corporations eyes,should have failed from the beginning.They should ask themselves this question,why did such a small company succeed so well.The answer would be Tom Lowe and his staff's close relations with the public.A bit of humility up RC'S butt wouldn't hurt.Variety is the key to success.


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## ChrisW (Jan 1, 1970)

xsavoie said:


> why did such a small company succeed so well.The answer would be Tom Lowe and his staff's close relations with the public.


Actually, the answer is that Dave did the work of about 6 people, and probably got paid half of what he was worth...

Just my opinion


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## Matthew Green (Nov 12, 2000)

> OKAY SO why not Sugguest to "The Suits" To Release ALL Previous PL KITs (Figures) ALONG WITH A FREE Johnny Lightning Car?! Yeah Yeah That's The Ticket!
> 
> Just a thought! And they could Charge More! Yes?,No? LOL


 That is a GREAT idea...They ALREADY have the molds....For a new generation...Hell it's almost been 10 years since they started back in 1997!


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## Dave Metzner (Jan 1, 1970)

I really wish that we'd stop refering to RC-2 as "a bunch of suits" That is a bit demeaning and not a very true picture.

Playing Mantis was a privately held COMPANY it was solely owned by Tom and Mary Lowe if it went bust only Tom Lowe was going to lose any money.
RC-2 is a publicly traded CORPORATION that's a whole different world. The upper and middle management there are responsible to the stockholders, and there is a world of governmental scrutiny of the way they manage the stockholders assets.

Playing Mantis was a small, entrepenurial venture that had pretty fair sucess. Little companies like we were can take chances that publicly traded corporations cannot immagine, If we screwed up the FTC or some other governmental regulator wasn't going to come pounding on our door. That's not so at RC-2

I know some of us are suffering withdrawl because there is no direct line to the inside any longer. At this time that's the way it is, complaining won't change it.

Dave


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## ChrisW (Jan 1, 1970)

Dave, thanks for the continued reasonable responses and comments amidst a flury of off-the-cuff remarks and accusations. Your level way of handling this speaks volumes about you, whether some folks appreciate that or not.


Now, were my percentages pretty much spot on? I may be off a little - you did the work of 5, got paid 3/5, whatever...


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