# Avoid ziggysmarty



## 22tall (Jul 28, 2002)

Won two red window TOs. Or so I thought. Got cars with smoke colored glass. I have sent dozens of emails to places that I was not sure of the window color. ziggysmarty clearly pictures red windowed cars. They said the auction does not state red windows so I should not have expected to get them. Cheapskates won't even refund shipping. AVOID ZIGGYSMARTY.


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## noddaz (Aug 6, 1999)

*Have you?*

Have you forwarded it to ebay?
That would be the first step...


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

Agreed Scott.

Takem' to the mat "Too Tall".


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## roadrner (Jul 21, 1999)

Gotta love the sellers that use a pic of an item but it's not the actual one they send or are selling. At least put in a disclaimer or something regarding the actual one that is going for the auction. Had a similar experience a few years back where the guy emailed me after the fact to let me know the pic was strictly posted for reference purposes only and that he in no way felt that this was improper. :freak: Some people.  rr


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## zanza (Sep 23, 2005)

Sadly there are not a lot to do that will work...
Quite sure that eePay will not care (i.e: you received the goods for what you paid for, nothing was broken and not grossly misrepresented, blahblahblah).

Thanks for pointing out that we should avoid that ZiggysMarty


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## SplitPoster (May 16, 2006)

I have had some success with epay - pay pal where item shipped was not the one pictured. The seller used the same picture for two different slot cars. Mine was cut a wee bit, and missing some pieces, but from the response I got using a stock picture for multiple listings is also a no-no when dealing with vintage/used/collectors items. These are collector's items, correct? Why else would you choose what you purchased based on that particular, less common color variation? Did the description say items may be different than the one's pictured? This one is in your control, not the sellers.

I'd tend to believe this case could be won hands down if put in that context. Forget the seller, address the issue to epay, paypall and your credit card company. That's why I do like to remember to use a credit card online unless it is someone I feel completely comfortable with. ame x does their job marvelously well too if you have a real issue - which you do.


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## videojimmy (Jan 12, 2006)

I think a bidder has every right to assme the item picture is the one you;re bidding on

I sent ZiggysMarty a email, asking what color of window I would get if I bid on his car, and I mentioned he's getting a rep for bait and switch selling practices. I'm not sure if I want the car... but I did want to bust his chops. 

I HATE dishonest ebayers with a white hot passion!


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## win43 (Aug 28, 2006)

Maybe we should all email him.  I also have a very strong dislike for Ebayers that are not on the up and up. I have looked at some of Ziggys stuff, but will not buy from him now. Thanks for the heads up.


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## zig (Mar 11, 2004)

*Avoid Ziggysmarty.*



win43 said:


> Maybe we should all email him.  I also have a very strong dislike for Ebayers that are not on the up and up. I have looked at some of Ziggys stuff, but will not buy from him now. Thanks for the heads up.


Hope nobody thinks I'm ZIGGYSMARTY :wave: 
I just hate crooked [email protected] not to mention crooked ZIGGYS  

ZIG 
aka Greg Zickafoose 
aka zig0_4 ([email protected])


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## 22tall (Jul 28, 2002)

Thanks for the support. e bay has sent me their first set of hoops to jump through.

Here are the auctions numbers 320126439280 320126456793

Their latest reply:
Thank you! We didn't "bait and switch" anyone! You received exactly what was described and the picture was of the model car you bought except the windows were a different color which we didn't think was a big deal. We've found out now that the red window "chase" cars are actually worth double what you paid so if your so smart why didn't you figure out the price was too low? The normal AW cars retail for $17.99 and you paid way below retail and now you want the very rare "chase" cars? We will honor our extra commitment to refund your money upon receiving your cars and leave you an appropriate feedback after you are satisfied with the transaction and leave appropriate feedback for us. Have a good one and we are sorry you are unhappy with your new release AW cars.

Now I'm ticked off even more. Sounds like they are admitting switching the cars. Then I get insulted and finally the feedback threat.Still no offer to pay any shipping.

At least Colonel Carter will be moving to Atlantis next season. Life isn't all bad.


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## Pomfish (Oct 25, 2003)

According to the AW website, $14.95 is the current MSRP on this series of cars.
Where they get $17.99 is beyond me.

If the seller doesn't know what they are selling, whose fault is that?
They are in the wrong on this big time.

Thanks and good luck,
Keith


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## A/FX Nut (May 28, 2004)

22tall said:


> Thanks for the support. e bay has sent me their first set of hoops to jump through.
> 
> Here are the auctions numbers 320126439280 320126456793
> 
> ...



I hate when a seller uses that feedback card. Some of the sellers on ebay think you should give them a positive feedback just so you'll get one. I tell them they have to earn it first. Luckily I haven't had any deals where I lost any money. 


The only transaction I didn't complete was on an original Aurora bleachers kit I was high bidder on. The seller never contacted me. Maybe it was because of the $2.99 high bid I had on it that won it. Randy.


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## martybauer31 (Jan 27, 2004)

Screw the feedback.... leave them the crappy feedback they deserve, and wear their weak-ass retaliatory feedback with honor. I have 2 negatives, both from crappy sellers being vindictive after I left them what they deserved. 

People that look into your feedback will see what you got it for and not care less.

Yes it sucks, but sometimes you just gotta do it.


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## 1scalevolvo (Feb 5, 2004)

*Dear ziggysmarty*

Always remember what Winston Churchill once said. 

"It takes 20 years to build a good reputation & only 20 minutes to put it in the gutter"


Neal :dude:


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## sethndaddy (Dec 4, 2004)

volvo1:1 said:


> Always remember what Winston Churchill once said.
> 
> "It takes 20 years to build a good reputation & only 20 minutes to put it in the gutter"
> 
> ...


Well said. 

22Tall.........what does the guys other feedback look like?. When I get an unhappy person, I ask for positive feedback too.....BUT, I refund the cost, the shipping and the return shipping. Always worked out for me.


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## videojimmy (Jan 12, 2006)

at least they'll take your cars back. They should eat the shipping costs though


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## videojimmy (Jan 12, 2006)

I just got an email from her... I asked about a yellow Chapparral with red windows I was thinking of bidding on, so I asked her if the car in the picture was the car I would get... she said no. I replied that I think she should post the pic of the car she was selling, this way no one could call it a bait and switch. 

She replied later and said she saw my post on this forum, about my "busting their chops" and guess what? She pulled the "nice thing to say about a woman" crap

I didn't even know she was a women unitl she toold me she was... and that wasn't after the "bust their chops" post. Even I knew she was a woman... I still would have said it. I treat men and woman equally, as I was raised to do. 

I hate when women pull this " I'm just a widdle girl" crappola.. was she implying that because of her gender, she shouldn't be judged the same way a male dealer would be?

I don't think she meant to mislead anyone... I think she was just ignorant about the all window colors and didn't understand the nature of collectors. I was on her side until she pulled this gender nonsense.


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## martybauer31 (Jan 27, 2004)

Hey ziggysmarty, if you're still reading this forum.... it's not about you being a woman, it's about you being a crappy seller, end of story.

Be an adult, stop being lazy, and take pictures of what you are actually selling, that's how the big kids would do it.


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## ZiggySlots (Jun 26, 2007)

*I am Ziggysmarty*

Hello and thank you for letting me defend myself as it's easy to go after someone when they aren't there to reply. First let me say that I'm a very honest ebayer and have been since selling on ebay for over 8 years - my feedback shows that I'm not a crook. I do not "bait and switch" as one of my customers has implied, thus starting this forum thread. I've only been selling slot cars for a short period of time now and started out with the JL cars that were either normal or white lightings - easy to tell them apart. As the new AW cars were released our research showed that they would not be putting special rare cars in the shipments as JL once did. For this reason, when the new cars came in I took only 1 picture of each model and didn't see the big deal in window color as the cars look and operate the same. The pictures were taken from a distance so I didn't think you could distinguish anyways. I also didn't state anywhere in the description the cars had red windows that Tall22 purchased so he caught me off guard with being unhappy with his order. I offered to refund 100% of the selling price if he shipped them back to me unopened as if I didn't want the cars I wouldn't open them. We don't refund shipping charges as stated in our ebay store policy pages - If people don't agree with our policy, then we do not force them to bid or purchase on our items - but our policy is very fair to the buyer. As for the retail price on the new AW cars from the 2nd release, they are $17.95 and the prices we offer are below retail and sometimes up to $8.00 off. Please look at the price Tall22 paid and you will see he received a very good price on his 2 cars. Anyways, I've offered a very fair refund to Tall22 even though I don't believe I had too. I'm not saying I'm not totally at fault as now I see that the serious collectors desire the red window cars and I should've had a more accurate picture, but I also didn't do a "bait and switch". Thank you for your understanding and I will make sure all my pictures are accurate and I will also state the window color in future listings so there will not be any confusion. Also I apoligize to anyone on this forum that thinks I'm this terrible ebayer as the previous post apply. If anyone can give me further advise on special AW Cars and Features that would be welcome so I can stay informed on potential problems with listing in the future. Thank you for your time and understanding!


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## videojimmy (Jan 12, 2006)

nuff said Ziggy.. although I think in Tall's case a complete refund would be the right thing to do... a bidder has every right to expect the exact item pictured in an auction.. other than that, I believe you when you say you didn't mean to mislead anyone. :thumbsup: 

Check the AW forum for more info on the AW products

we collectors are serious bunch!
hehehehehe

:tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue:


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

*"Oils wheel" that ends well*



videojimmy said:


> snip*....We collectors are seriosu bunch!
> hehehehehe...


There's the understatement of the year! 

Ziggysmarty: We're a passionate bunch. Everyone on this board is loyal to the hobby to a fault. 

Slot heads are a tight knit band of brothers. There are all types in our family. Collectors, racers, customizers, modelers, and vendors. It is our way to share intel. Any intel! Good or bad.

Please realize that often times problems on the Bay are a pain in the neck for us and often times little or no resolution is met. When a member sends up a flare we listen, watch, opine and offer assistance. Should you look deeper beyond this specific incedent you will also find hundreds of positive posts regarding good deals, great vendors, and happy people. It's our own weird feedback/support system. The buck simply stops here. It may seem like vigilante justice, but come on... what can you expect from a bunch of 'lil boys who still play with cars. Anything that gets in the way of playing with our 'lil cars is met with quick school boy justice.  

It may appear defensive or ruthless from the outside looking in, but it is our way. I always know these guys have my back.
No questions asked. :dude: 

IMHO, it took a lot of hair to come on board setting your end of the record
straight and I respect you for that! I'm sure others may too. There are always two sides to the looking glass. :thumbsup: 

Please do return if you have questions. They will always be met with urgency cuz we love what we do and everyone here does their part for the betterment of his slotbrother and the hobby in general. Just log on and let it fly. We're not always politically correct, and a bit crusty on the surface; but for the most part we play well with others and do make a halfhearted attempt at maintaining some form of proper decorum.  

Also if you continue to be a slot vendor, please consider the merit of our Buy, Sell or Trade forum. 

You have ventured into a little part of the twilight zone. The "slot under world" is a nice place to visit and a great place to be! Just remember that playground rules are still in effect here, so watch your lunch money! :wave:


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## coach61 (Sep 6, 2004)

Bill Hall said:


> There's the understatement of the year!
> 
> 
> 
> Please do return if you have questions. They will always be met with urgency cuz we love what we do and everyone here does their part for the betterment of his slotbrother and the hobby in general. Just log on and let it fly. We're not always politically correct, and a bit crusty on the surface; but for the most part we play well with others and do make a halfhearted attempt at maintaining some form of proper decorum.



Speak foryourself William, I am always Polictically correct.. Ok Correct.. lol :wave: 

Lord Coach of Sealand, keeper of the footstomp of I am right.


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## martybauer31 (Jan 27, 2004)

It's too bad something couldn't have been worked out a little better between the 2 of you, there should be an exception to the rules on occasion, especially if something is misrepresented. 

Intentionally or not, it's up to the seller to ensure they represent correctly. It doesn't matter how good of a deal you are giving someone on the 'bay, that's the way it works, not sure what offering $8 less has to do with anything. And in this case, the item was not what you were selling, I still think you owe our man here a shipping refund.


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## Ligier Runner (Nov 29, 2004)

Well said Bill. I would add this if I may and address it to Ziggy.

"One man's junk is another man's treasure" and "if it exists, someone collects it".

My advice is to learn all you can about anything you might sell as there are always prototypes, limited editions, and mistakes to name just a few categories. I'm much more a racer rather than a collector as the collecting end of the hobby pool is deep and I'm not that good a swimmer nor do I have the money to keep up with the latest swimming attire.


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## SCJ (Jul 15, 1999)

ZiggySlots said:


> If anyone can give me further advise on special AW Cars and Features that would be welcome so I can stay informed on potential problems with listing in the future. Thank you for your time and understanding!


While I agree with the other slotheads here, what's pictured is what I expect to receive (glass, body, chassis etc included)....I'll attempt to address/answer your quest for knowledge so that you can be a more informed ebay slot car seller.

Of current releases, they say the red colored chassis cars are harder to find as are the firstlap clear blue cars. In previous releases, there were the white thunders you mentioned, the chrome cars set (first mail in premium), the gold chrome cars (second mail in premium), a blue chrome mach 1 mustang (limited edition), a red chrome charger w/blower (limited edition), a pink chrome challenger (limited edition), a black mach 1 mustang (limited edition), a silver chrome 55 chevy (limited edition), green chrome camaro (limited edition) and probably a few I'm forgetting, but this should get you started!

Hope this helps

--------------------------
www.SlotCarJohnnies.com


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## SplitPoster (May 16, 2006)

*Well done*

Ziggysmarty, nice to see your post! As stated, this is a very good group of people, and if you are going to be dealing in slot cars I would think you can only do better keeping up with this forum.  

I have spent way too much time and money on e bay satisfying the slot car habit - but I do expect to receive exactly what is pictured (unless the description states otherwise). Simply, my idea of what is significant about my purchase may not match the sellers perception. If I am buying a slot car with #2 on the hood, I may not want the one with #5 there, even though the value would technically be exactly the same. I equate the little car hobby to full size cars - if I buy a project car with a AM radio pictured in the dash, whether described or not, the seller isn't doing me a favor by putting a newer, "better" one in its place. Well intentioned a switch may be, but originality or that option may be high on my list!

Hate to be ticky, if I was buying a weedeater I wouldn't care what color the handle was, but these are CARS! CARS!


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## bobhch (Apr 22, 2007)

SplitPoster said:


> Hate to be ticky, if I was buying a weedeater I wouldn't care what color the handle was, but these are CARS! CARS!


Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeew a Pink Dora handled Weedeater? C'mon that would just be bad and embarrassing to use. Gotta look good in the Neighbor hood! :dude: 

Maybe I got carried away with the handle thingy. Yeah what SplitPoster said, "these are CARS! Cars!"


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## 22tall (Jul 28, 2002)

ZiggySlots-lets drop the "bait and switch". I will politely say uninformed. The Hobby Talk jury has spoken. It's unanimous. Please explain to everyone here why I don't have them. You can still correct that.

You now seem to understand that you screwed up big time. You keep saying how hard you are trying to resolve this. I don't see it. I am still out shipping both ways. Time to go outside your box. Ditch the return policy on these cars.

Without going through e bay I see this ending one of two ways:

1 You send me the red window cars and I send the others back.

2. I send these back and you refund the cost of cars and shipping both ways.

This shouldn't cost me a cent. 

By the way your pictures were excellent. Wish more people did them that well.


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## sethndaddy (Dec 4, 2004)

Ziggy, for the small amout of returns in my fleabay expereinces, I have found that returning the return money ALWAYS left me with positive feedback. 
And no, I didn't feel that some people deserved it, but in my time selling I think I had 4 or 5 people unhappy, some didn't even ask for the return money, I just did it. Made them happy, and I got the positive feedback.


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## zig (Mar 11, 2004)

I'm just glad to see it's an honest Ziggy after all :thumbsup:

http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=ziggysmarty&ftab=AllFeedback

My apologies ma'am


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## *MAYHEM* (May 4, 2007)

ZiggySlots said:


> . First let me say that I'm a very honest ebayer and have been since selling on ebay for over 8 years - my feedback shows that I'm not a crook.


If you were an "honest ebayer" you'd post pics of the actual product you're selling or at the very least state that the picture is not of the actual car you're selling and give a detailed description. I've had this sort of crap happen to me on ebay and I refused to do business there for a long time because of it.

I'll tell you this; you'll never get a bid from me. EVER. Even if you decide to clean up your act.


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## win43 (Aug 28, 2006)

I have looked at Ziggysmarty feedback score. That and the post on here tends to make me believe that this is a big misunderstanding and could be resolved fairly easily. Yes, the cars were misrepresented, but I do feel that it was unintentional. In this case, I have to agree with most of the people here, that either the cars pictured be sent or a full refund (including shipping) be given, despite your normal policy on returns. Ziggy, life's too short to squabble over a few bucks in shipping costs when an oversight on your part has occurred. These guys take their little cars VERY seriously and I hope for all concerned that this can be put to rest with a agreeable ending.

"And now for something completely different"...... Welcome to the inner sanctum of these boards. It's a great place for information. 

Jerry


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## 22tall (Jul 28, 2002)

22tall said:


> We've found out now that the red window "chase" cars are actually worth double what you paid so if your so smart why didn't you figure out the price was too low.


Please justify this statement. You paid the same price for every car.


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## martybauer31 (Jan 27, 2004)

Yep, I would have to agree with you. What a car is supposedly worth and what it gets sold for on eBay are 2 entirely different things and matter for exactly nothing....

It seems to me like ziggysmarty figured it out too late in the game and wanted to make some more money off of it. THAT is a "bait and switch" pure and simple, and any respect I may have had for her posting here fell out the door just now reading this one.

Ziggysmarty owes 22tall the car he paid for, or a refund, and a huge apology to him and the folks on this board for trying to pass one off. I retract my welcome as well....


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## ZiggySlots (Jun 26, 2007)

*Hello again from Ziggysmarty!*

Hello to you all again and thank you for the kind words of support and understanding in both your post on this forum and through emails directly to me! I would've posted sooner, but I work a 40 hr/week job besides doing ebay and the family thing so I don't have a lot of free time. I will state again that I did not do a "Bait & Switch" as some of you are inclined to think - My feedback shows this is not my way to doing business! I know that you are a tight bunch of Slot Car People and no matter what I say or do you will always side with one of your own, even if there is 2 sides to every story. I guess I'm just saying I'm alright with peoples opinions both positive and negitive because that is the nature of life and the conflicts that come with it. 

I put this same case study on an ebay sellers forum and 99% of them sided with me, but I've only stated that to all of you to explain the example of what I'm about to say. Tall22 said the jury has spoken but it wasn't a fair jury since you are all on his side as was the ebay seller forum was not fair either since they were on my side. That being said, as one of you stated - for the few dollars it's not worth it so Tall22 you win and you can have your shipping fees back also! But let me say this - you misled everyone on here as your emails to me were very rude, arrangent, and dominating. If you would've been even a little civil to me from the beginning instead of reaming my behind with your demands, I would've been more than willing to go out of my way to straighten this up in a positive manner. Instead you made me angry thus my email I sent to you that you posted on this board. As my Grandmother once said - A little sugar goes a lot farther than spice. Anyways, please send your cars back unopened and sealed (being you didn't want them with the regular windows you shouldn't have opened them right?) and I'll refund the selling price, original shipping, and shipping back to me as you demanded! Last night I was in a better mood and was even going to offer you an extra $5.00 for the problem, but after reading your post and emails again I just could'nt justify doing it. Alright I've said my peace and again I sincerely would like to thank everyone on the board - even the ones with the negitive post towards me. This is a learning experience for me as I'm new to the slot car world, but I think I will be back now that I'm a member so I can try to stay as updated as possible with slots! I'm mainly a railroad fanactic, but I do have many found memories of my childhood days racing slot cars with my brother on our 1970's AFX Race Track complete with the lap counters! Anyways, any of you who wan't to contact me - feel free! Take Care and Tall22 there really is no hard feelings toward you! Please send your cars back and I'll take care of it!  

Sincerely Tracy


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## martybauer31 (Jan 27, 2004)

ZiggySlots said:


> I put this same case study on an ebay sellers forum and 99% of them sided with me, but I've only stated that to all of you to explain the example of what I'm about to say.
> Sincerely Tracy


Amazing, 99% of ebay sellers on an ebay forum who know nothing about slot cars sided with you? I wouldn't have seen that one coming....

If you notice on this forum, it was not a 99% in favor of 22tall, there were quite a few posts where people were positive in your direction. The people on this board are both smart and fair, and in the past I have seen them rip into their own for doing something crappy to other folks. Yes, we are opinionated and loud sometimes, but we're honest.

I think what you tried to pull was completely wrong, just one opinion here. I would personally not buy a thing from you at this point, but at the same time, if you have a question on this board and I can answer it, I certainly will.


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## ZiggySlots (Jun 26, 2007)

*Ziggy again!*

Just want to clear up another point after reading the recent post again! When I opened the first AW Case of 12 cars from the T-Jet Series that I received, there were 2 sets of 6 different cars - 1 set had plain windows and 1 set had red windows. I took one picture of each model of car and didn't think I needed to do pictures of both window types as they didn't seam special one way or the other to me. I listed that first case of cars and sold all the cars without any complaints using just 1 picture for both window types. I received a second case a few weeks ago and it only included 1 red window car (a willy van) so I proceeded to list that case using the same pictures from the first case. I didn't think the red window looked good so I was glad there wasn't more in this 2nd case. This is the case that Tall22 cars came from with the plain windows if this make any sence. Anyways I didn't do a "bait and switch" as I just listed what cars I had using the same pictures from the first case. Now I know that this is what caused all the trouble. I didn't even know about the red window cars being worth more until after Tall22 email to me, which is when I noticed other sellers selling them for more. I didn't just hord his to make more money because I didn't have any red window cars in that 2nd Case to hoard except for the willy van which I will list soon. I know this sounds confusing, but I'm just trying to explain what happened because I'm tired of hearing the "Bait & Switch" statement over and over again. That sounds like a statement out of the mob or something!

Ponder this though! Lets say an informed slot car buyer looks at ebay and sees a car with red windows that is priced really cheap compared to other sellers with the same red cars. The description doesn't say anything about red windows and just list it as a normal car except the picture shows red windows. Maybe that buyer thinks he pulling one over on the "stupid" seller who doesn't know what he/she really has. He's not 100% sure that car is the rare one he wants with red windows, but heck at that price and an "stupid" seller maybe I can hit the jackpot. He better not ask questions though because that might clue the seller into what he/she really has since they obviously don't know anything about slot cars. He buys the cars and thinks his rare red window cars are on their way and he can't believe he got them so cheap. When they arrive he realizes the cars are the standard version just like in the description and now his steal is just the normal cars and now hes really mad and wants the seller to pay for his/her slot car sins! My point with this little story is who deceived who about the cars with red windows! The "stupid" seller kept his/her end of the deal and shipped 2 brand new regular version release 2 AW slot cars still sealed in a very fast shipping mannor since he/she takes pride in his/her ebay business! Yes the seller should've had separate pictures, but maybe he/she didn't realize that people would want the weird red windows more over a normal window that looks more real thus why waste the time taking 2 pictures - get the picture?

Alright I'm sure this will stir the pot a little, but this is how I would feel if I might've been that misinformed seller. Anyways, I will drop it here and as stated in my post above - I will refund all of TALL22 money once I receive the 2 cars still new and seled back. Tall22 please accept my apology for having to cross paths in this manor and I do wish the best to you and the other sloters on this forum! Got to go - but I'll be sure to drop a HI every now and than!

Thanks again!

Tracy :tongue:


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## coach61 (Sep 6, 2004)

I have to side wih the majority.. take pics of what you sell. The Ebay forums will tell you that much, and I have seen AW cars of all types start at 99 cents and we decide how high to take them as consumers. Glad to see you took responsibility and Tall will get his money back, but I think your posts have turned a lot of us away from your auctions. I would have just said maybe Opps sorry I didn't know, with out getting defensive about something you claim not to be guilty of.. hmm why do you suppose.. naa couldn't be....

Having siad that I agree 100% with Marty if you need advise there is no better place on the planet for Info on slots then right here on Hobbytalk and we are a forgiving bunch as long as you don't insult my mother..lol...


Dave




ZiggySlots said:


> Just want to clear up another point after reading the recent post again! When I opened the first AW Case of 12 cars from the T-Jet Series that I received, there were 2 sets of 6 different cars - 1 set had plain windows and 1 set had red windows. I took one picture of each model of car and didn't think I needed to do pictures of both window types as they didn't seam special one way or the other to me. I listed that first case of cars and sold all the cars without any complaints using just 1 picture for both window types. I received a second case a few weeks ago and it only included 1 red window car (a willy van) so I proceeded to list that case using the same pictures from the first case. I didn't think the red window looked good so I was glad there wasn't more in this 2nd case. This is the case that Tall22 cars came from with the plain windows if this make any sence. Anyways I didn't do a "bait and switch" as I just listed what cars I had using the same pictures from the first case. Now I know that this is what caused all the trouble. I didn't even know about the red window cars being worth more until after Tall22 email to me, which is when I noticed other sellers selling them for more. I didn't just hord his to make more money because I didn't have any red window cars in that 2nd Case to hoard except for the willy van which I will list soon. I know this sounds confusing, but I'm just trying to explain what happened because I'm tired of hearing the "Bait & Switch" statement over and over again. That sounds like a statement out of the mob or something!
> 
> Ponder this though! Lets say an informed slot car buyer looks at ebay and sees a car with red windows that is priced really cheap compared to other sellers with the same red cars. The description doesn't say anything about red windows and just list it as a normal car except the picture shows red windows. Maybe that buyer thinks he pulling one over on the "stupid" seller who doesn't know what he/she really has. He's not 100% sure that car is the rare one he wants with red windows, but heck at that price and an "stupid" seller maybe I can hit the jackpot. He better not ask questions though because that might clue the seller into what he/she really has since they obviously don't know anything about slot cars. He buys the cars and thinks his rare red window cars are on their way and he can't believe he got them so cheap. When they arrive he realizes the cars are the standard version just like in the description and now his steal is just the normal cars and now hes really mad and wants the seller to pay for his/her slot car sins! My point with this little story is who deceived who about the cars with red windows! The "stupid" seller kept his/her end of the deal and shipped 2 brand new regular version release 2 AW slot cars still sealed in a very fast shipping mannor since he/she takes pride in his/her ebay business! Yes the seller should've had separate pictures, but maybe he/she didn't realize that people would want the weird red windows more over a normal window that looks more real thus why waste the time taking 2 pictures - get the picture?
> 
> ...


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

*Resolved!*



martybauer31 said:


> Amazing, 99% of ebay sellers on an ebay forum who know nothing about slot cars sided with you? I wouldn't have seen that one coming....


LMAO Marty! A micro study of the TRUE value of polling. snicker.

Nice to see that this didnt come to the point that the moderator had to slam the lock on this! Perhaps some progress was made in the greater scheme as well. :thumbsup: 

Ugly as it was, credit where credit is due. Too Tall stuck to his guns. Ziggy Smarty stepped up and corrected a mistake. Dun deal.  

LET'S ALL GO PLAY WITH 'LIL CARS !!!!!!!!

Coach: Your momma and my momma should get together!


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## SplitPoster (May 16, 2006)

I'm glad this got cleared up, for both parties.

But I don't get the "taking advantage of the stupid seller", or "the buyer should have known better" line. I mean, stuff is BIN priced all over the board every day - whether on the bay or amazon . com. Bought a new dog carrier once for considerably less than most others were selling it - not because the seller was stupid, but because they only got a few in the smallest size in a great big lot of stuff, and wanted to turn them over,as they didn't specialize in or know much about pet stuff..... sounds like a similar situation.

Ziggysmarty, you noted the difference in color and thought the maroon windows were less desirable! I don't collect AW cars, and I might even be inclined to agree with you on appearance! But once again, in my book if it isn't new in box IDENTICAL, use a differenct picture! Some folks won't care, others very likely will. I'll bet if you ordered a model loco passenger car set in PRR maroon, and you received the exact same set in black you wouldn't stand for the seller telling you they are exactly the same. 

If I don't know about something I'm confortable with "for sale exactly as pictured, as is!


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## 70ss (Aug 22, 2005)

"Ponder this though! Lets say an informed slot car buyer looks at ebay and sees a car with red windows that is priced really cheap compared to other sellers with the same red cars. The description doesn't say anything about red windows and just list it as a normal car except the picture shows red windows. Maybe that buyer thinks he pulling one over on the "stupid" seller who doesn't know what he/she really has. He's not 100% sure that car is the rare one he wants with red windows, but heck at that price and an "stupid" seller maybe I can hit the jackpot. He better not ask questions though because that might clue the seller into what he/she really has since they obviously don't know anything about slot cars. He buys the cars and thinks his rare red window cars are on their way and he can't believe he got them so cheap. When they arrive he realizes the cars are the standard version just like in the description and now his steal is just the normal cars and now hes really mad and wants the seller to pay for his/her slot car sins! My point with this little story is who deceived who about the cars with red windows! The "stupid" seller kept his/her end of the deal and shipped 2 brand new regular version release 2 AW slot cars still sealed in a very fast shipping mannor since he/she takes pride in his/her ebay business! Yes the seller should've had separate pictures, but maybe he/she didn't realize that people would want the weird red windows more over a normal window that looks more real thus why waste the time taking 2 pictures - get the picture?"


If this was to happen on a regular auction and not a BIN. Bidder would have time to ask question. Before taking chance it would sell before you replied back. I think you should in the future take pictures of car you are selling. (glad you see now and are offering too return shipping both ways) it was your mistake after all you have admitted to knowing there was two different color windows before listing these.If the picture shows red windows that is what I would expect to recieve whether you think it sold too cheap or not. Its not that the cars with the red windows cost more (you paid the same whether they came with them or not). But too collectors that want every variation it makes a difference and they are willing too bid against one another to win. (thats why they are selling at higher price for now). Most cars (regular) are now selling way below msrp (14.95) and your asking price (12.99) on ebay.


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## noddaz (Aug 6, 1999)

*And I quote:*



> Before creating your listing, you'll want to gather information about your item and take pictures. Buyers love to see what an item looks like before they bid or buy.


nuff' said...


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## 22tall (Jul 28, 2002)

Even though I have a lot of unanswered questions I will just drop it. Glad that it's over.

Thanks to everyone for keeping the thread civil and the support. I too was one of those that expected to see the dreaded lock. With all the views, maybe it was the moderators checking in


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## Griffworks (Jun 24, 2002)

I think it's past time to lock this thread, so locked it is.


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