# Need some help with Power Rails......



## bjanzen (Oct 24, 2008)

Guys,

I am pretty new to HO but have been around slot cars for 20+ years. When I couldn't race locally I decided to start a HO track for my kids in the house. Built up a nice 4x8 layout from AFX track,. Did the whole glue/solder/putty/sand/paint thing and the thing just gave me fits. Never could get it to run well. 

So..... decided to router out a wooden MDF track to replace it. Have the slots almost done and now need help with the power rails......

Found a guy a few years ago using 16ga. re-bar wire for the rails. However, by my calculations I will need some adjusting....... The wire seems 0.055-0.059 and my bit is 1/16 (.0625) Would need some paint in the slots for filler or glue or something.......

Do I need some different wire or bit? Can I get a smaller bit for my router?

Help???? Don't want to go the wrong way with this track. 

Thanks,
Barry


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## galerdude (Jan 24, 2010)

I've never used the re-bar wire but I've read that it creates way more magnetic down force than one might desire. There are alternatives, not familiar enough with them to advise though.


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## tossedman (Mar 19, 2006)

Barry if you do some searching of the interwebs you can find end mill bits in almost any diameter you can imagine. Probably is a local supplier in Cleveland as well if you look around. You won't find them at your local big box stores though. Take a look at flat stitching wire for your rails as well. It's a lot more like the rails you're used to.

Todd


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

Barry,

Before you start doing anything with the rails, do searches throughout this forum as well as other internet sites. The guide slots are the easy part - the rails require more work and there are different materials to use and methods for routing and installing them. You'll read about "lock wire", which is a material (like weed whacker string) pressed/glued in the rail slot to "lock in" the wire.

There are a number of posts here about using stiching wire - that seems pretty popular. Rebar wire, I hear, has too much downforce. Braid is another option, but more expensive. Copper tape can be used, but there are issues with hard HO pickups.

Do some searches and read a lot. You'll get all the info you need.

Joe


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## bjanzen (Oct 24, 2008)

I have read a few threads..... Looks like 0.020 stitching wire is common. 

Still not sure. Seems like re-bar wire would hard to get smooth running. The stuff seems to come off the roll with kinks in it. Why would down force be too much? What are the negatives to that? Just wondering.....


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

The .020" X .103" flat stitching wire provides more down force then Tyco or Tomy sectional track does.
If you only run on 1 track and it's with buddies,the higher downforce is a benefit.
But if you go to several other tracks,then it becomes an issue,as you'll need differant car set-ups as in tires and high or low downforce magnet set-ups etc. to run on the other tracks,
I'm not so sure how popular the .020" wide rail is,as there's only a couple of us using it,as far as i know,but we're like rabbits,we make alot of tracks.
I like the higher downforce provided by the thicker rail,the cars are easier to drive,and it usually means less cost to build a fast car,but i only run the higher end stuff,and that's only my opinion:thumbsup::wave:
Rick


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

bjanzen said:


> I have read a few threads..... Looks like 0.020 stitching wire is common.
> 
> Still not sure. Seems like re-bar wire would hard to get smooth running. The stuff seems to come off the roll with kinks in it. Why would down force be too much? What are the negatives to that? Just wondering.....


The downsides I can think of:

1. Magnetic downforce causes drag, which will cause the car to work harder in order to move. It will probably run hotter. Think about what would happen if you had so much downforce the car couldn't move - it would simply burn up.

2. Should cause more wear and tear on certain parts, like pickups.

3. Depending on your personal preferance, you may want less downforce to allow for some sliding or to require more throttle control.

You can experiment with different magnet cars on standard track. The least downforce car being an Aurora Magna-Traction or AW XT and the most being some exotic things I know nothing about. But just in regular off-the-shelf cars, compare the above mentioned cars to a Lifelike or Tomy Super-G+. Which is more to your liking? Then decide whether you'd want more or less downforce and do your rails accordingly. Do you want the MT/XT to act more like the Lifelike/Tomy (and have them be even more glued to the track) or the other way around?

Joe


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

Joe,i haven't ran into any heat issues,in fact the cars run cooler on this track by almost 30 degrees compared to my old tight cornered tyco track.
Rails don't usually contribute that much to the heat issue,it's more the track design,a short tight twisty track,where you're on and off the throttle lots,causes more heat than the rails do.
Any track where you can't get them wound out and up to speed causes heat in a magnet car.
Here's a test for you,try running a car someday,preferably when you're having a good day,run it smooth and check the temp,then run it rough,by rough i mean lots of on/off throttle,not a smooth run,then check the heat again.
90% of heat in a magnet slotcar is caused by the driver not being smooth,and that's usually caused by not having the car set-up for your driving style on that particular track.

And shoes actually last longer,you can get away with slightly less shoe tension 18 grams down to about 14 grams of shoe tension,and the wider contact patch of the rail,means you've got more surface area to make electrical contact,and a bigger area to spread the load out on.

One thing i'm hoping for is longer life outta the rails,but i won't know that one for about 10 yrs.
I only get maybe 10 yrs out of a tyco track before it's rails are wore out,so i'm hoping the wider rail gives me better life expectancy,building tracks is fun,but not something i like doing that often,lol.
These are only my opinions,and findings off this track,compared to my old tyco tracks

Rick


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## 4meandthem (Nov 11, 2011)

I can't help with rail question but I know if you need a router bit a certain size you can a sharpening service take it to what ever you need. Call local cabinet shop and ask who they use for their sharpening.


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## tossedman (Mar 19, 2006)

I've ordered small bits from www.nbs-miniature-endmills.com as well as www.microcutusa.com before I found a local supplier (Thomas Skinner). All have a multitude of small bits
.


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## bjanzen (Oct 24, 2008)

tossedman said:


> I've ordered small bits from www.nbs-miniature-endmills.com as well as www.microcutusa.com before I found a local supplier (Thomas Skinner). All have a multitude of small bits
> .


Thanks.... Just what I was looking for! 

Been trying the re-bar wire..... Can't get it to lay flat. Gets kinks in it no matter how carefully I try to straighten it out. Roll it in the groove and get as much as 0.004 variance waves....... Maybe it wouldn't matter but now I am trying the 0.103x 0.020 stitching wire option. 

Anyone have a combination that works well? Router bit size? Lock wire? Color coded lanes?


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

Read the Routing Sintra post through,it might give you some ideas to think about:thumbsup:

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=331698


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## bjanzen (Oct 24, 2008)

I have...... Maybe I missed something. Will look it over again. Thanks for the suggestion


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## tossedman (Mar 19, 2006)

bjanzen, check out post #47 of the Routing Sintra thread. Rick tells all there.

Todd

ps I just reread that whole thread from start to finish. It's a pretty good read. I've been out to Ricks a number of times now and the track seems to get better and better the more we drive it. Get's me motivated to finish the two I'm working on.


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## bjanzen (Oct 24, 2008)

Thanks Todd..... I re-read the full 10 pages as well as your Scorpion thread. Now I just have to get some square trimmer line. All I have found so far was round 0.065


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

The trimmer line i used is called "Force 4" made by an outfit out of Phoenix,called "Desert Extrusion".
It's usually a blue looking trimmer string,it's pretty easy to find up here at our local Canadian Tires,so it shouldn't be that hard to find south of the border.
200 feet to a roll,on sale up here,it usually goes for about 5 or 6 bucks a roll,buy at least 30 ft more then you figure you need,gives you some fubar room,lol
If you order 4,000 or more feet of it,they'll colour code it for you,but you're going be tripping over trimmer string till you die if you do,lol.

Paint pens are you're easiest and probably cheapest way to colour code your lanes

If you're doing a Sintra based track "Glue" the rails in.
If you don't the rails will move,unless your room is dead stable temperature wise.
Sintra has a fair bit of movement with expansion and contraction in regards to external temperature changes
That's it's down side.
Also be careful with laying tools on it's surface,as it's easily marred,especially if the surface is hot.

Try to install your rails in a very cool room,or even outside if possible and it's not bitterly cold out.
They'll go in easier if the room temp is almost cold.

At about 115F it'll start to change shape big time,and by 130F the stuff will be curled up like a pretizal,just a heads up if it's gonna sit anywhere where it's hot and the sun can get at it

Try to cut your track out,i did mine as big sheets of sintra,and that's a mistake.
Save the cut-out pieces to re-install if you want a flush mount track,but leave the router bit gap between the track and the center pieces.
The smaller the sheet,the smaller the expansion /contraction factor:wave:


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## tossedman (Mar 19, 2006)

bjanzen said:


> Thanks Todd..... I re-read the full 10 pages as well as your Scorpion thread. Now I just have to get some square trimmer line. All I have found so far was round 0.065


We get it at Canadian Tire. That's not ring to help you much though. Oops, looks like Rick beat me to it. Guess I oughta read the whole thread.


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

If you haven't found Gene's routing site,it's worth cruising through.

Gene's a wise man,lol,and he's got some good tips in there,just cruise around:thumbsup:

With-out tips from Ted/Todd and Gene,my track would of never got built.

Damn Gene is what got me started on a new track,i'd dropped the hobby for a couple years because of boredom,and the bugger sent me pictures of the track he was starting to build,and that was my downfall,lol

http://routedtracks.yuku.com/directory


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## bjanzen (Oct 24, 2008)

Thanks for the tips guys....... Appreciate it. 

I know what to do with trimmer line..... I do commercial lawn care..... Use about 1k ft a season! However I u:se the thicker sizes on my trimmers 

I did find some line at Tractor Supply made by Arnoldparts. Com...... But I can't find it on their site. It is four sided star shape and 0.065 and clear to boot! May look more. 

At this stage my track is MDF and guide slots routed and track is painted. Ready for the power rails...... 

Next track may be Sintra...... I have a CNC table that is 12x16..... Would like to expand to 4ft square before I try another track ;-)


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## tossedman (Mar 19, 2006)

Check out Camber's Greenslopes Raceway over on Slot Forum. He build this with a CNC that's only 500mm X 350mm (that's about 19" X 14") put it together like a puzzle I guess. And, it's 1/32 scale.


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

Use Gene's glue'ing tip,his track is MDF,and that's the stuff he found to work good.
On Sintra,i found good old 2 part epoxy to be one of the better holding glue's.

LOL,well you just might be the guy that could get away with their required amount for colouring:thumbsup:.

You'll want to check the router bit sizing too,what we used for Sintra might be a hair small for MDF.

I don't know if you could get away with a .006" interferance fit on MDF,that might be a hair tight.

One other option for lockwire instead of trimmer string,is good old 14/2 household wire.
You might want too experiment with it,as it'll cover 2 bases if it works,1 as a lockwire,and the other for getting power to the rails.

I've done some short test pieces of sintra,using 14/2 as lockwire,and it'll work,so i'd give it some serious thought :thumbsup:


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## bjanzen (Oct 24, 2008)

The 14/2 wire is just too expensive compared to trimmer line. Call me cheap but I also don't want to strip 400 ft of the stuff either! Have a 0.080 bit coming....... 

Thanks for the links guys. I will look them over tonight on the laptop. This phone is only so good......... 

Still think making my CNC table bigger would be easier than all the puzzle work on the next track. Will Call the fella that made the table. Surely the motors would take longer belts...


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## tossedman (Mar 19, 2006)

When you first said your CNC was 12 X 16 I thought you meant feet. She'd be a beaut! You can get 5' X 10' sheets of Sintra. Imagine what you could make with that.


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