# Associated TC3 (Electric)



## patcollins

Thought I would start a TC3 forum over here.


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## Guest

OK now that we got it started, lets forum.
Indoor season is coming soon. What has happened to the tct over the past year.
How are the lite (delrin) drives working?

etc

Rick


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## patcollins

I don't know about the derlin ones but the composite ones from Associated are great.


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## TheBoss

The delrin drives slip with mod motors on just about any surface and with stock motors on carpet.


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## Guest

I'm with Pat, AE's lightweight diffs rock. Especially after they run in for a bit; it seems that for me at least after I build them, they need to be readjusted after a run or two, and then again about 10 runs later, but then they're perfect. Mine are at least 3 months old and they're the smoothest they've ever been. Using AE Green Slime on the diff balls and the black thrust grease that comes with the kit.

And I tossed a 10x2 into my car for a bit the other night; didn't notice any problems aside from me learning how to handle insane power. =D


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## Guest

Rats, I put my reply in the new topic section. You can tell I am new to this. Please view you all.


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## TheBoss

Delrin diff halves are different than the AE lightweight diffs......BIG difference. 

Same with some of the aftermarket aluminum...they slip too.


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## Guest

what is the big difference between derlin and associated.....by your opinion


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## patcollins

Inacorner, a derlin drive is a replacement piece for the original outdrives, they were steel and very heavy. Since your new dont worry about it, your cars probably have the lightweight Associated outdrives. 

The difference is Associated designed their lightweight outdrives correctly and the derlin and aluminum ones out there are just a quick design that really had no thought other than using a lighter material than steel. 

About motors, you do know there are different classes? Unless you are going to race modified dont worry about the motor causing you to loose. Also being new you do not I repeat you DO NOT want to run modified, your car will be in pieces.


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## rayhuang

Have you guys done much body testing? I have run two bodies so far and think both of them were good. The first of course is the Protoform Stratus, but what really suprised me was the brand new Parma Lexus. It almost seems to change directions faster and smoother than the Stratus, especially at high speed. I'd put a picture up, but I don't think we can do that yet. Just my opininion though. What bodies have you guys tried other than the tried and true Stratus? It gets old seeing 40 Stratus' every weekend!!!


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## tfrahm

> <font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">Originally posted by rayhuang:
> *Have you guys done much body testing? I have run two bodies so far and think both of them were good. The first of course is the Protoform Stratus, but what really suprised me was the brand new Parma Lexus. It almost seems to change directions faster and smoother than the Stratus, especially at high speed. I'd put a picture up, but I don't think we can do that yet. Just my opininion though. What bodies have you guys tried other than the tried and true Stratus? It gets old seeing 40 Stratus' every weekend!!!*</font>


Locally, the Protoform Contour/Mondeo seems to work well (similar to the Stratus). The Pf 300M seems to add top speed (better aerodynamics), but at the cost of being a bit more "loose" (more front downforce than rear, so not as balanced as the Stratus). The Pf Accord seems to have good steering, but is "taller" in the passenger compartment and more boxy, so it gives away some speed on the straights. One local racer is having success with a Mercedes body (not sure of brand), but I don't know any details... The new LOSI Stratus is a very different animal than the other Stratus bodies -- seems much more loose in the tail, and not as balanced as the older designs. OH -- the Andy's/Yokomo Stratus actually seems to have more downforce than the Protoform/Associated Stratus....


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## rayhuang

I like the looks of the Andy's body more too, but when I was in the wall every 3 seconds the pretty front end would crack at the fender wells. I'm a little better now. Try the Lexus!!! You will be suprised like me!!!


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## tfrahm

> <font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">Originally posted by inacorner:
> *Rats, I put my reply in the new topic section. You can tell I am new to this. Please view you all.*</font>


One thing to keep in mind... At the local HobbyTown parking lot races, new racers (which you seem to be) run together in the 'Novice' class, so you are not thrown to the lions...







Check with your local track, but here, the RTR TC3's are treated as "stock" class cars for Novices -- normally the Novice class is limited to stock motors, but the 19 turn motors in the RTR's are allowed. Part of this is because, in all honesty, in the Novice class, the motor isn't what matters -- it's the *driving*! If you really are just starting out, you will run more laps in a race by driving at a moderate speed, staying away from the pipes, and just not wrecking than by going "fast"...









Enjoy the RTR's 19 turn motor, and worry about speed later... (By the way, the 19 turns are plenty fast for most tracks until/unless you are ready to go head to head with the big dogs in Modified.)


[This message has been edited by tfrahm (edited 10-02-2001).]


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## tfrahm

> <font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">Originally posted by rayhuang:
> *I'd put a picture up, but I don't think we can do that yet.*</font>


You *can* put pictures up... just put a square bracket '[' then the letters 'img' followed by the other square bracket ']', followed (no space) by the URL for the picture, then follow by the same bracket, '/img', bracket combination..

I'd like to see a picture of your Lexus...

[This message has been edited by tfrahm (edited 10-02-2001).]


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## rayhuang

Okay, here are two Lexus' of mine with very similar paint jobs. I hope this works








I hope the picture is big enough to see. if not feel free to look at my photo album at: http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/kartchamp20002000/lst?.dir=/RC+pictures&.view=t
[This message has been edited by rayhuang (edited 10-02-2001).]

[This message has been edited by rayhuang (edited 10-02-2001).]

[This message has been edited by rayhuang (edited 10-02-2001).]

[This message has been edited by rayhuang (edited 10-03-2001).]

[This message has been edited by rayhuang (edited 10-03-2001).]


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## tfrahm

Thanks for the URL... Those bodies do look very nice. A refreshing change from the usual Stratus...

Parma's web site only lists an 'LX 200' (I believe that's the way they list it)... Do you have a part number for the Lexus body you used?


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## rayhuang

Yeah, thats them, the Lexus LX200. It looks alot like the American IS300. It is also ROAR legal I just heard, so I am running mine at the Champs!!!!! Must have been an LX 200 Touring car racing in Europe or japan or something. I don't know. Sorry about the lousy-amateur post before. Had to try and get a free photo hosting site ASAP and kinda botched things up a few times!!!


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## Guest

The parma part # for the lexus is 10134 all the major distributors have them.
Thanks for the interest.MrParma


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## Guest

Does anyone know the part # for the AEs lite weight out drives


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## Guest

Thanks to Patcollins and Tfrahm for the information. I was not aware the RTR is allowed in stock class. I guess the only thing this novice is aware of at this point, is that my car has 4 wheels! I wonder if RTRs will be running in the stock class at JCC. I plan to be there Oct 20/21.
So, I will keep viewing this forum, learning, and one day I will have the saavy and/or lingo down like you experienced old timers! Again, thanks for the info.


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## Guest

Digger...there's actually about 4 part numbers you need, assuming everything in your steel outdrives is fine. (They sell a total diff kit too, but it includes the balls and gear which you shouldn't need)

I'm having trouble getting the PDF catalog to load, and I can't find my hardcopy of the recent catalog (I have the one from my 2 year old TC3, but they didn't exist then =) - but I believe all you need are the outdrives themselves, the bushings, the locknuts, and the D-rings.

That, and get used to adjusting the diff from the other side, for whatever reason, it's the opposite between the steel and light diffs. Hehe.

And...just making sure...you are upgrading an older TC3, correct? All of the new ones already have the light diffs - the Racer I got about 3, 4 months ago had them already.

As to bodies, I've ran the Protoform Accord...and really, nothing else yet. =P I have noticed that it does seem to give up on the straights a bit...and it does have plenty of steering, at the cost of high-speed stability - at the end of longer straights with the small included wing, the car is too loose to do anything with other than carefully take a sweeper. I run a large wing fashioned from a AE buggy wing, cut down a bit, sticks the rear like glue too. Mad downforce, but the drag isn't helping.

Looking at getting a GT40 whenever the shop stocks one. =)


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## Guest

i got my car in may, does it have lightened outdrives? im not sure how to tell.
there aluminum or steel n fairly heavy


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## patcollins

The lightened ones are plastic.


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## Guest

If they feel like they have any weight to them at all, they're steel - the plastic ones weigh just about nothing in comparison.

If you really want to be sure; the steel ones are first metal instead of plastic (heh), they've got bearings inside instead of bushings, and the rings are just round rings, whereas the plastic diffs use D-rings.

If you still have the steel ones, I think it was $13 to upgrade more or less, assuming everything else in the diff is fine (and why wouldn't it be, the bevel gears in my oldest TC3 still look new) and it's definitely a worthwhile upgrade, you get rid of some major weight in the driveline. Probably the most effective weight-reducer on the TC3, really.


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## Guest

I am not sold on the lightweight AE outdrives... I sheared one off in Mod one night in the A-Main.. I'm about to just deal with the weight of the steel ones since my aluminum ones are slotting REALLY bad


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## patcollins

I have a set of steel ones that I run when I run modified. I have never lost a race in mod because of lack of acceleration. I have never had a problem with the plastic outdrives but why take an unnecessary risk.


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## Guest

Hi all!

Are any of you guys racing on carpet with rubber tires?

Here in Sweden we race on carpet during the winters. 

[This message has been edited by Airwide (edited 10-28-2001).]


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## TheBoss

Yes. Will be using Team Sorex 32's, 28's, 24's, and 20's....depending on traction. Inserts to be used will include Sorex medium (gray) and Yokomo mediums.


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## Guest

Hey guys! What's happening Pat? This is your old friend Eric back in WV. How's it been going?

I have run the Steel outdrives with Modified and the lighter ones with stock racing. The steel is really an added strength issue. I did melt 1 plastic diff with a modified motor. Maybe it was a rare thing, but it threw all the grease out of the diff and into the gear case. The diff let go on it's 4th run after a recent cleaning and re-greasing. It was a fluke I guess. Never had that happen before. So I use the steel as a precaution.

TC3 rules!!!!


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## Guest

Just wondering, as this has been on my mind for a while...

1. What benefits are gained on cars by running a center differential? I know you see this on 1/8 nitro buggies a lot...

2. Has anyone else ever thought of making the spur gear into a pan-car style differential to act as a center diff? =)


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## Guest

Anyone using the one-way diff on carpet? I've been using it at my last two practise sessions, and the car feels so much better with it than without it. The car gets better cornerspeed with it. What do you think?


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## DaWrench

Hi everyone:

I FINALLY made it over here. 
brian11: you should either switch to the IRS pin coushins or the Shuie blades. (sorry about the spelling) I have run both and I went with the blades. (personal prefferance).
as for breaking the plastic diffs.....it does happen. my son broke two last year both during really bad crashes.
as for bodies I am going to try the ProtoForm Opel Vectra this weekend. I have talked to some people that have run it and it sounds a little more neutral than the Stratus. I'll post after the races Sunday (if I don't have to work).
Thanks


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## Guest

I'm strongly considering one of the RTR TC3's for a new electric toy, and am wondering if the community thinks I'd be OK, or that I'd be making a mistake. I'm sure I would rarely race it in organized events, and since I almost always buy used stuff, I'd love to have something really new and shiny! The last new vehicle I got was a Thunder Tiger TS4n 4WD Touring Car two years ago, and while it has been a GREAT toy, winter is coming to Indiana! ( I actually run both gas and electric in the winter, when there isn't snow or ice on the road, but my ancient fingers can get awfully cold and immobile!) Glen


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## Guest

Glennie: The TC3 is a great car, and very easy to drive. You wont regret your choice.


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## Rich Chang

I think the Niftech pin saver system is the best out there. Big surface area so it doesn't cause slotting. 

The IRS ones are okay, but I found they compress and smush, and they also eventually slot the plastic diffs.


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## Guest

Thanks for the comments, Airwide! I ordered it yesterday, and can't wait to see it! Glen


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## Guest

hmm..whats the one way diff?? i havent seen one yet ....where would i get it ??


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## Gooch

I just got the IRS light weight outdrives and when I tried to tighten the diff the plastic piece that holds the nut that sits in the slot got pulled down (sucked into the outdrive) and wouldn't tighten enough. Has anybody else had this experience? Does anybody else know what the heck I'm talking about? When I used a replacement part from a spare diff I was careful to not tighten it too much but now it's not nearly as tight as I would like it. I can easily spin one wheel while holding the spur gear and the opposite wheel.


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## Guest

I have an older TC3 with steel outdrives. Can someone list the parts needed for the upgrade to AE's lite weight drives? I know that I need the 'd' rings, diff halves and the bushings, but what else if anything and the right part numbers.

Thanks

Rick


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## vodo321

hey airwide, im using foams no carpet. and i was wondering what kind of body you guys are using.


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## JONW1020

Rick, you can buy the lit diff kit that has every thing in it for $20.00 for your LHS if they don't have it try AE.


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## Guest

The AE kit is a major ripoff, especially since you probably don't need new balls, thrust assembly, or gears...

Part numbers that are different:
3908 - outdrives
3907 - bushings
3904 - hex nut
3906 - D-rings

Everything else is absolutely identical between the two. Don't remember how much comes in each package, but you'll need four outdrives total (two short, two long), four bushings total, two hex nuts total, and four d-rings total. I think at least one of those part numbers you have to buy two of. I think the total cost was $11? Been too long, heh.


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## Guest

Hey vodo321!
Here in Sweden we are only allowed to use rubber tires. When it comes to bodies, the Protoform Stratus is best balanced body. The vectra is a bit more stable and the Andy's Type B stratus is a little bit more agressive. I haven't liked the original Andy's Stratus at all on carpet.


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## Trixter

> <font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">Originally posted by Kirker64:
> *The AE kit is a major ripoff, especially since you probably don't need new balls, thrust assembly, or gears...
> 
> Part numbers that are different:
> 3908 - outdrives
> 3907 - bushings
> 3904 - hex nut
> 3906 - D-rings
> 
> Everything else is absolutely identical between the two. Don't remember how much comes in each package, but you'll need four outdrives total (two short, two long), four bushings total, two hex nuts total, and four d-rings total. I think at least one of those part numbers you have to buy two of. I think the total cost was $11? Been too long, heh.*</font>


Thanks for the help. I get the lady at my LHS to get them coming.

Rick


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## rowle1jt

Picking up my Team TC3 later today, anything I should look out for when building it and during the first few runs? Thanks!

Jake
[email protected]


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## patcollins

If it has the composite outdrives leave off the shims and then take some sand paper to the inside of the tranny cases where the large bearings sit. The case is way to tight otherwise. Try putting it together per instructions first though and see what I mean.


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## RunninFree

Running on ozite carpeting mostly smooth with a few wrinkles. Stock.

What droop settings would you start with?
What shock oil?
What shock springs?

I plan on starting with 6 front 4 rear.
Oil 70 both front and rear.
Reds on front and Gold on rear.

What do you thing of my starting set up?

As for chamber, do most set it by tire wear?
Keeping tires wearing in middle.


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## TheBoss

Here is a basic setup for carpet...work from there. Adjust droop first after this.

Oil 60F, 50R
Springs Red F, Gold R....if traction rolling, go with Coppers F, Red R.
Camber 1 to 1.5 F & R
Droop - 5.5 and 5.5
Shocks...middle hole on shock towers front and rear.


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## Brian L

Droop setting for carpet should be around 6 front & 4 rear. Try lighter oil like around 40 or 50 weight. Springs are pretty close with maybe going a step or 2 stiffer.Are you running foams or rubber tires? Also need to know if your running a diff or one-way in your car? High or low traction carpet and if it is bumpy or smooth? I can give you a more detailed setup once you give me details, but this should be close. I usually run around 2 degrees camber or so tires wear even.I like Robinson diffs the best. Mine have over 50 runs on them and are super smooth. Plastic ones seem like the mold is off and feel notchy.The also seem to lose there settings a lot.

Brian


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## RunninFree

> <font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">Originally posted by RunninFree:
> *Running on ozite carpeting mostly smooth with a few wrinkles. Stock.
> 
> What droop settings would you start with?
> What shock oil?
> What shock springs?
> 
> I plan on starting with 6 front 4 rear.
> Oil 70 both front and rear.
> Reds on front and Gold on rear.
> 
> What do you thing of my starting set up?
> 
> As for chamber, do most set it by tire wear?
> Keeping tires wearing in middle.*</font>


OK I left off:
Running rubber tires. Sorex 20's and 24's with hpi's red inserts.

I set ride height at 5mm. I then set tweak on a friend's MIP balancer.

Stock set-up no one-ways.

Track is mostly smooth. It is only laid out on a gym floor. Its is taken up after every race weekend.


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## Trixter

> Originally posted by DaWrench:
> *Hi everyone:
> 
> I FINALLY made it over here.
> brian11: you should either switch to the IRS pin coushins or the Shuie blades. (sorry about the spelling) I have run both and I went with the blades. (personal prefferance).
> 
> 
> Tim, I would like the part numbers of the shuie (sp) blades so I can get me some.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Rick*


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## rayhuang

I need more off power steering on my TC3. What are the Caster and rear toe changes to make this happen???

Thanks,
Ray


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## Trixter

Pat Collins:
I just installed the molded outdrive assemblies into my TC3 and they do not seem as smooth as the metal ones. Have you had this experience? It seems harder to find the fully compressed spring spot too. I left out the shims and I did use the businigs inside the diffs. I guess I will just drive it a little and see if it gets better. Please reply









Rick


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## patcollins

Yes you are correct, the diff doesnt seem to work quite as well and the assembly doesnt spin quite as freely in the gearbox. 

About the diff part, inside the plastic will compress more than metal when tightening down the diff and this makes the diff not quite as smooth. To prove this take the diff assembly in your hands and press inward and spin the sides in opposite directions. This removes the load from the thrust bearing and the diff is alot smoother feeling. Just about all diffs do this but the plastic ones are much worse than metal ones. It doesn't seem to affect it on the track and I havent had a problem with it other than in my head when I first built the plastic diffs. 

About getting a free-er (is this actually a word?) drive train you can either run it for a while ~15 battery packs worth and it will free up some or you can take some very fine (1000+) sand paper to the inside of the diff cases arround where the large bearings ride. 

You can also bolt a motor in and hook up 2 cells to it and run it for a while, a mabuchi 540 is great for this. 

No doubt the more you run it the better it will get. Even as tight as it felt when it was brand new I didnt seem to loose anything to anyone else as far as speed and power goes.


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## Trixter

Thnaks Pat. It is always a little scarey to me when I change something and it doesn't feel better. I have several boxes, actually quite a few boxes of stuff that was the "HOT TICKET" to the winner's circle but was just a quick drain on my wallet.
Thanks again. I will run some batteries through it as soon as it quits raining and the pavement dries up a little.









Rick


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## Guest

One other thing to look out for with the plastic diffs is that it seems after a rebuild - especially when new - they quickly start loosening back up. After about 4 packs and being readjusted almost every time, they pretty much stay where they are.


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## Trixter

I am going to keep my eye, or my allen wrench, on them.

Thanks

Rick


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## Guest

rayhuang - running more caster will increase steering into a corner but reduce steering out. Toe in generally locks in the rear end under power. Maybe adding some caster and reducing rear toe in would give you what you are looking for. You might also want to try moving the front shocks in one hole or the rear ones out one hole.


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## rayhuang

Jack Smash-Thanks for the tips. I'll try them!!!


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## Trixter

Smash........ Sounds like you are running TC's now. Which one?

Rick


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## Guest

Rick

You must not have got the E-mail I sent you a while back







Rob and I are about the only ones left from the old gang still running. We are both running TC3's in Carson City (about 30 miles from Reno). Im planning on getting back into the sport seriously this year. Ill probably be running Tc and 2wheel Mod at some big races this year. Well see how my wallet holds up. Do you still do any battery work? Talk at you later.


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## Trixter

Hey, good to hear from you. As far as battery stuff the only thing I have left is my trusty Turbo 30. All of my other stuff was sold. I had kept one matcher, just in case, but just in case.... never happened. I run a lot of gas off-road tuuck and of course my TC3. We don't have a place to race indoors yet, but working on it. There is a club in Klamath Falls that races indoors e/o Saturday night, but the weather has been a little too exciting so far.
Tell Rob Hi and Merry Christmas to all of you.
Rick


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## DaWrench

Trixter:

Hi, 
Sorry for not getting back here sooner. you asked for the part numbers for the Shuie blades here they are

U2033M: you'll need two of these. 
U1918G: extra blades in case you lose/break one.

this is a easy swap. just pull off the blades and pullout the pins. then take out the pins from your CVD's ( we run the plastic ones)and carefully tap the Shuie pins in and install the blades. we have been running them for over a year on carpet/asphalt with the plastic diffs and no signs of any wear.
I have installed them on all my cars and even the T3's we run and no failure as of yet.

Thanks

DaWrench


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## Trixter

Tim: Thanks for the part #'s. Things must be really slow for On-Road racing. I know hwere the weather has us at a standstill, but we did manage to get one Off-Road race in Thursday evening. I think my trigger finger is healing slowly.

Rick


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## DaWrench

Trixter:

Hi,

we just move indoors for the winter. the reason I haven't been here much is.......work. I work lots of hours so time on puter is linited.

Thanks

DaWrench


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## hankster

Welcome to our new "Discussion by Vehicle" topic. Hopefully this will help everyone by keeping related car and truck discussion all in one place.


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## Guest

I'm new to this thread, so I started reading from the beginning.
I just recently got a TC3 again used and it came with Delrin diffs front and rear.
The felt horrible, kind of sticky and were slipping even when tightened down all the way.
I took them out and got me the AE plastic diffs which worked great, for 3 heats.
When I put an 8x2 in the car for the main (foams on carpet), both diffs melted away after 2 minutes )

I was looking at the Delrin diffs and thought that pinning the diff rings (pan car style) or using d-rings and modifiying the hubs to fit would probably take care of the problem.
Has anyone tried this yet?


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## patcollins

For some reason the lightweight associated diffs need some readjustment after the first battery or two. They probably came loose and then slipped and melted down. 

The derlin diffs shouldn't feel any different, unless they are not true or have a crack or something.


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## Guest

> <font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">Originally posted by patcollins:
> *For some reason the lightweight associated diffs need some readjustment after the first battery or two. They probably came loose and then slipped and melted down.*</font>


Anyone had problems with the outdrives rubbing against the transmission cases ?

i ask because I've just recently got into R/C and I bought a TC3 kit (I had previously built a couple of other kits, but just for fun this one's for racing). After running a couple of packs through it, it seems as if the transmission cases have worn against the outdrives and now the Rear right and the front left outdrives have created slightly bigger holes on the transmission cases. this is causing some vibration when the wheels rotate. Is this normal ? If not, what should I do ?
contact AE ?
return the kit ?
buy new transmission cases ?

Help please !!!!!

Chris


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## rayhuang

Stefan G. I really think the way to go is with the stock metal outdrives from Assoc. in Modified. The reason for running the plastic diffs is in my opinion to give more snap to Stock racing. I dont doubt you can make the plastic outdrives work as long as you check them after every few runs (hold spur and one tire, and try spinning the other tire). The extra weight of the steel diffs means nothing/zilcho/nada when mated to an 8/2 motor!!!!!


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## Trixter

I am in talks with the local school to let us race in the gym. The floor is wood, well you know, basketball court. I know there are some folks that race on these type of floors, and I need to know what to use for tires on 4x4 touring cars. 

Thanks,

Rick


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## Guest

Hi,
what size are the bearings in the TC3,
I need the exact size so I can try and order some Ceramic bearings,ie diff 3/8 x 5/8 and wheel 3/16 x 3/8 when I look at the list of bearings I never see the right size?


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## lephturn

Why ceramic bearings. Very costly. You loose more power in gearing and tires than in bearings. Bearing loss ammounts for very little of the power loss in a rc vehicle. They say they outlive metal 5 to one but their not saying weather they can last that long under the abuse your metal ones get in the tc3. If you got the big bucks do it but I would not suggest it


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## Technophobe

Hello

Any advantages or inconvenients in using HPI wheels on a TC3 ??

Thanks


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## Guest

Hey, There arent really any benefits to an HPI tire on an AE. It's really just the compound you have to look at. If it is the compound you want to run, the company doesnt matter. The only downfall would be if the hardcore AE guys saw it they may have a few words for ya. I have HPI Yokohama tires/wheels myself that i use as my "show" tires (they dont work well on carpet,lol). Its your choice, i run an HPI body as well, they make really good rims and bodies. Run whatever fits and you like.


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## Technophobe

Thanks for the answer but I am talking about the wheels only, With HPI wheels, it looks like the car is not as wide as with the standard AE wheels. 

Does reducing the widht of the TC3 by using the HPI wheels has any advantages or inconvenients ?

I have a bunch of HPI wheels and was wondering if there is any use for them with TC3.


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## Guest

I know for a fact many team drivers use the metal outdrives in modified. When set up right the plastic ones are good but they need to be looked after more, and can go bad or be damaged easier.


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## Guest

ANyone know of any discussions about converting the TC3 for off road use.

I know Dan has done it but there seems very little being talked about it just lately??

I am sure someone must have got supplies for running it off road by now??

Thanks for any replies


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## DynoMoHum

I just got my TC3 going, I haven't had a chance to race it yet, but this weekend I should get my chance... 

I'm wondering about the weight of this car and how much extra weight people normaly have to put on the car, also where you people typicly put the extra weight. My understanding is that 53 oz. is the legal minimum for 4wd electric touring car., I have
to put about 2 oz of weight on this car to get it legal. It seemed like ALOT of extra weight to me and my choices of how and where to put it on the car are proving to be challanging to me. I need advice/help.


I purchased my car used, it has all the graphite parts, as well as Titanium parts. I also purchased a new Quantum Pro Reverse speed control for it, because my older Tekin speedos would not fit. I have a Hitec servo that is full sized and a Futaba PCM receiver that is full sized... There is a small amount of room next to the speedo, wich is located right in front of the Motor... then there is the space just to the outside of the motor that one could put weight... 

How much weight are you guys adding to your TC3s? Where are you placing? Why are you placing it where you do? How are you securing it to the car?


----------



## DynoMoHum

I should have also asked... 

How are you guys determining if the weight ballance of the car is well distributed?


----------



## patcollins

Well the easiest way to determine right to left balance is to pick the car up using its shaft and it will tilt toward the heavier side. Usually the right side is a bit light. Just guessing I said the car needs the weight just aft of the servo, so I took 1/2 oz of lead and shoo-gooed it to the inside of the tub right behind the servo. 

To get a final balance use a tweak system like the MIP. I have never felt the torque steer that some people talk about, it cant be that bad the TC3 wins some very big races so it must not be that bad.


----------



## rayhuang

TMFU,

You can add the weight in a couple of different ways. Have an awesome paint job on the body. That adds a 1/2 oz. also, add a motor heat sink. As far as lead weight goes, get what they call Mag wheel weights that have double stick tape on them already. Before determining where to put the weight, tweak the car on a tweak board. If one side falls way short in weight and it is affecting your ability to set a consistent ride height at all 4-corners, add the weight in the lightest corner of the car.

Another generic place to put the weights is in the small areas of the chassis to the right of the motor and to the left of the batteries. Just glue to the side of the chassis. The last great way to add "useful" weight is to get a full set of Buds Bumpers. Especially the side nerfs and front bumper. At the Champs last year, my Factory team spec. car was always bordering on 53 Oz. with no added weight.


----------



## whoop_fast

Hello all,
I was racing at the track today, and the guy sitting beside me told me that he had a TC3 RTR for sale, since I mentioned I wanted an on-road car. So, i asked him how much, and he said for $200 dollars, he would give me all the electronics, the car, a motor, a body(the pre-painted stratus), and foam tires...He also said he would throw in all of his spare parts, and maybe some other stuff...So, my question is, would this be a good car for me, seeing as I am only 15, and also, do you think that as the rtr, it will be fast enough for a novice class...which runs stock motors...what do you all think?


----------



## patcollins

Yes, the most important part of the novice class is keep from hitting things. Usually the guy with the slowest car wins the novice class because they are all so concerned with going fast they constantly run into stuff. 

$200 is a good deal, if it is in good shape.


----------



## Guest

Hey guys and gals,
I was wondering if anyone was having trouble with the axle bearings getting messed up on their TC3's? I have ruined 2 bearings so far. They both have been on the outside of the carrier, the inside ones seem to be okay. I use crush sleeves between the bearings, but I only have the stock wheel adaptors. I was wondering if this might be the problem and I need to switch to aluminum.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Chuck


----------



## patcollins

Yes actually, but the problem doesnt lie within the hubs but the bearings. Replaced mine with some duratrax bearings and have been fine. You can buy a tube of 10 bearings for a very reasonable price.


----------



## Guest

Okay, thanks. I'll try that. I'd hate to have to keep buying bearings. Could get expensive after a while.

Thanks,
Chuck


----------



## DynoMoHum

Hey Whoop Fast... I just got a chance to run my TC3 on carpet for the first time this weekend. I will say this... The TC3 with a stock motor is WAY fast. I'm not really a novice per say, but then again I have extreem ly little experiance in running a road course, and even less experiance running a 4wd TC on a road course. I am hear to say to you, that the TC3 is a rocket ship on carpet with foam tires, and a stock motor. Only your driving will hold you back with a TC3.


----------



## whoop_fast

thanks a lot man, i think I am going to get it...i want a fast car...


----------



## Guest

WhoopFast,
You'll be totally happy with the TC3, if I may be so bold as to add my 2 cents. It is a very adjustable car that, when the drive train gets run in, is extremely fast.

Good Luck,
Chuck


----------



## Guest

I'm an off-roader, new to TC's and just purchased/assembled a FTC3. Went out to the in door carpet track, and my first practice session, I just about hit everything in site.
After a few packs, I broke the left, rear ball cup and replaced the Associated ball cups with RPM ball cups because the guys told me the RPM's were more sturdy. After I changed the to the RPM's, the TC3 pulls to the left down the straight under acceleration, handles erratically and was uncontrollable. I found out that the RPM cups rub the inside of the foam tire rims (Jaco 28mm foams). I tried filing down the cup, but it looks like if I file the down any more, they will not hold onto the ball stud correctly.

Is there some type of adapter that I can use on the axle to push out the rim/tire so it clears the ball cup, or should I not be using 28mm tires and use 24mm tires?


----------



## patcollins

I use the RPM ball cups and they contact the 24mm tires on occasion but not enough to worry about. You can tell from the slight groove in the ball cups. Most people are running 24mm.


----------



## Guest

eventually you're going to break parts. this is a fact. enough slams into the boards, walls, other cars will take it's toll no matter what kind/brand of part it is.....especially the ball cups. you're better off just replacing the ball cups with the standard Associted ball cups. much less hassle than worrying about changing rims/wheels/foams. just try slowing down a little bit, get that carpet rocket under control and your laps times will show it!

i don't think i've ever broken a ball cup before on my TC3, but that doesn't mean i haven't SMOKED some boards or walls either. the car overall is one sturdy machine. all i added to my FT TC3 was a Buds front bumper. the rest is what came in the box.


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## DynoMoHum

I agree that the TC3 is quite a stout car. I'm also a beginer when it comes to Road courses and TCs, My car is FAST... probably as fast as nearly anyones, I often don't hold back when it comes to trying to get around the track fast. I've hit the walls quite hard over the past few weeks. So far I have not broken any of the TC3's parts. I did break my battery packs apart twice this weekend, but that was largely do to my realtively poor solder job on this one perticular pack. I think I have it soldered better now, so hopefully wont keep doing this...

My point is... I have hit the boards quite hard, and my all graphite TC3 has been putting up with it remarkably well. Heck I've even cracked a front TRC foam rim I've hit so hard, and haven't broken any Associated parts on this car. I have a big foam bumper that I made myself, it prtty much fills up the whole nose of my Stratus body. I've only cleared the foam away from the tires just enough to get full turning without rubbing... I've go the standard TC3 front bumper under that... no nerf bars or rear bumper. (Oh and I've also been slamed from behind quite hard too, as I'm going so much slower then many of my compeitors at this point... I try to stay out of their way... honest I do..)

I'm starting to get comfortable driving the car now... Hopefully my lap times will keep picking up.


----------



## Guest

Quick question for the TC3 experts: how many turns out can the lightweight diffs be adjusted without taking a chance on melting? Does the adjustment vary depending on running stock or modified? Thanks.


----------



## Guest

Question for the TC3 experts: how many turns out can the lightweight diffs be adjusted without taking a chance on melting the diff? Thanks.


----------



## Guest

Boosted...your best bet is to basically follow the instructions to the "T". That should be your best adjustment setting. 

boosted GTP huh?? I got a pretty damn quick SHO V8 that's got some h.p. myself! underpullies, sensors, chip, computer, K&N, etc...

It's so funny to think that some of today's "sporty" sedans (such as yours and mine!) are just as quick as some of the best SPORTS cars of the 80's, or actually faster. And using even smaller displacement motors. AHHH....modern technology.


----------



## Guest

Sorry about the double post. When I refreshed, the page did not update. C Buffalo; isn't great when someone thinks they can walk all over you and then surprise. Modern horsepower is great, but I respect all the ponies.


----------



## sheath

I have a question concerning the droop screws in the suspension arms. I purchased a used TC3 racer, with the composite parts. My arms don't have the droop screws, and the chassis does not have the little 'ears' on the front and rear that I assumed the droop screws rested on. With me so far? I was told the droop screws would make a world of difference in the handling on our carpet track with foam tires. I was told that I have an early version of the TC3, and that the later ones all had droop screws. I posted on the 'wanted-to-buy' board for a composite chassis and arms that used the screws. I called this the 'new version'. I was told that I didn't need the new version chassis to use the arms with the droop screws. That is question #1... is that true? Don't you need the little 'ears' for the screws to rest on?
I also went to a local hobby shop to look for composite arms with the droop screws.(being rather cheap, and wanting to pay as little as possible) I found composite arms with no screws, and graphite arms with screws. Question #2 is... do they make composite arms that use droop screws, or only graphite? 
So I went to hobby shop #2 where I knew they had a couple of chassis in stock. They had 2 factory team graphite chassis... one with the 'ears' and one without. Now I'm really confused. This points to the theory that the droop screws were absent on the original design, including the factory team versions. I just looked at the exploded view and parts list from the AE website, and the droop screws are listed as 'NEW!'.
Question #3... can anyone shed any light on the history and current state of things concerning chassis, arms and droop screws? 
Thanks.

[This message has been edited by sheath (edited 01-29-2002).]


----------



## Brant

1. Many use droop screws with a chassis without ears. If you go this route be sure to use screws with rounded ends instead of screws with a truncated cone ends. Truncated cone ends will dig into the chassis and change the droop setting during a race day. Even a rounded end will move a little in the beginning.

2. They make composite arm's with droop screw holes in them.

3. Tower Hobbies sells a composite chassis with droop screw ears for 21.95. I bought one last fall. As a side benifit, a new chassis made my car look fresh, the old one was really beat up.


----------



## DynoMoHum

I was under the impression that the droop screws came out at the same time the "factory team" version cam out. 

I beleive I too have been told that the droop screws on the new arms will indeed work on the old chasis... My impression is that the screws will hit about half of the surface... probably not the best arangement but I think it might work.

As far as I can tell, the droop screws just simply aid in setting the ride height of the car... or at least the maximum ride height. I'm not convinced that it's all that helpfull if you can get the ride height you need without using the screws... 

I've got the full graphite chasis, but mine is the older version, without tabs or droop screws. I purchased mine used from a guy who had just purchsed the new "factory team" kit when it first came out. He is the one that told me about the droop screws and ears, and how that was one of the main differances between the car he sold me and the new car... I think the only other differance was the Factory Team comes with light weight outdrives I think.


----------



## Brant

I race on a 45 by 65 carpet track with about a 145 ft center line.

Every race day I make one change that I think will improve my racing. The change I want to make for this Sunday is to increase the front toe out from .5° to 1.0°. The thinking is that this will increase my steering at the corners at the end of the straight away and will increase the steering at the high speed sweepers in the infield.

The downside will be that steering will be decreased at the exit of the corners. What types of front toe out are people running on carpet? Is my thinking good as to what I can expect from this change?


----------



## sheath

Brant,
Thanks for the info on the droop screws, arms and chassis. That clears things up. Sorry, don't have the experience to comment on your toe-in/toe-out question.

TMFU,
Thanks for your info too. I was told that without the droop screws, the inside suspension was free to extend to it's fullest when cornering. With the droop screws, the suspension is limited as to how far it will extend, and prevent the car from rolling too much. Until I try the new arms, I installed stiffer springs in front and a roll bar to see if that helps. My first heat on new tires last week, I kept traction rolling in the corners.


----------



## patcollins

The droops screws provide one of the most useful tuning aids on the TC3. They aid in building your shocks too because with them you dont have to put in shock spacers. When using 6 in the front it got really hard to assemble the shock/spring assembly because not that much shaft was extending to grab ahold of to unscrew the shock bottom.


----------



## nightowl75

My son runs a tc3 on a dirt oval track. Of all the posts, I have not seen anyone say anything about dirt oval racing. He runs rubber x pattern tires, and a few factory hop ups. He usually has his share of driver problems, for about 3 laps, then settles in for the rest of the race. I was wondering if anyone uses the aluminum steering rack, and aluminum front steering parts? We use the gold springs on the front, and green on the back. Does anyone have any setups they care to share? He runs this on a hard clay track, with banked corners.


----------



## DynoMoHum

What I don't understand about droop is this...

Why is it objectional to have more downward travel of the suspension? It seems to me that as long as you get the ride height right with the springs, it should not matter if the suspension has extended travel, as would be the case if you don't use droop screws or spacers in the shock.


----------



## Brant

I'm new to touring car racing, so if I'm off on this droop stuff, please reply.

I believe the first reason you want to control droop is that as the car accelerates out of a corner the front end rises. As the front end rises, it becomes unweighted, and thus steering is reduced. The front droop controls how much it rises. If it rises 4mm, then steering would be reduced to a greater degree than if it rose 2mm. The second reason you want to control droop is that as the car brakes into a corner, the rear end rises. As the rear end rises, it becomes unweighted, and rear traction is reduced. The rear droop controls how much rear end rises. If it rises 4mm, then the rear traction would be greatly reduced as compared to if it rose 2mm.


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## Guest

Having a problem getting my TC3 untweaked. I used a setup station to set camber and toe. Adjusted the shocks to equal length. Then used a MIP tweak station to set the shocks. The left rear shock is screwed down more with tention than the right shock. Is this cause for a tweaked chassis that might need replaced? I bought the car used so I am not sure how much it was hammered on. Although, the parts dont have excess wear and the suspension, steering, and hubs were pretty tight. One last detail; this is the version with no droop screws. Would it be better or cheaper, to get composite arms with the droop screws and try to untweak the chassis in this manner? Thanks for any help.


----------



## patcollins

TMFU downward travel of the suspension isnt necessarly a bad thing. But its very avantageous to be able to control it. The more downward travel you have the more chassis roll and more sluggish your car will be. So droop is used to dial in or out traction and chassis roll more or less. There is a great article in XTreme RC, I cant remember the issue but when I get home from work today Ill look it up. it explains things fairly well.


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## nickname999

Take a look at HPI's web site, www.hpiracing.com. In the FAQ section there is a link for car setup. This is one of the better sites that I have found for car setup. There is also a link in that section for a web site that has a lot of theory on car setup. Should be required reading...

[This message has been edited by nickname999 (edited 01-30-2002).]


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## rayhuang

boostedgtp-

1. Check for bent hingpins
2. Make sure that the shocks are built the same internally!!!! To check, turn down the shock collar that is already turrned down a lot and see if the chassis goes *UP*. If it doesn't, then that shock has hit the internal limiters and wont go up anymore. If the other shock has more travel, then the two sides are not the same. I guess you said you measured the shocks so maybe not....
3. Loosen motor and see if it changes tweak. Sometimes the motor cam can tweak the chassis.
4. Start all over and back off all shock collars. Set ride height approximately. Also-dont make all tweak adjustments off of one shock. Loosen the one side opposite the side you want to tighten down. Also, lets say you want to turn the right front shock collar *down*, you can also turn the left rear down as well. 
Sometimes I tighten or loosen a particular shock depending on where ride height is if you know what I mean.

Hope this helps more than confuses!!

[This message has been edited by rayhuang (edited 01-31-2002).]


----------



## Trixter

> <font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">Originally posted by DaWrench:
> *Trixter:
> 
> Hi,
> Sorry for not getting back here sooner. you asked for the part numbers for the Shuie blades here they are
> 
> U2033M: you'll need two of these.
> U1918G: extra blades in case you lose/break one.
> 
> this is a easy swap. just pull off the blades and pullout the pins. then take out the pins from your CVD's ( we run the plastic ones)and carefully tap the Shuie pins in and install the blades. we have been running them for over a year on carpet/asphalt with the plastic diffs and no signs of any wear.
> I have installed them on all my cars and even the T3's we run and no failure as of yet.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> DaWrench
> 
> *</font>



I got the above mentioned parts yesterday and installed tham last evening. It all went very smoothly. I was supprised that the fit in the new plastic outdrives was so exact. What a good deal. I may even look at trying some of these on my XXXNT.

Thanks again.

PS I think your email address might be outdated.


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## patcollins

Can you take the pins out of the metal CVD's like you can the composite ones? Someone mentioned using blades on their T3. Looking at my steel CVD's it doesnt look like the pins come out.


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## Guest

I have a tc3 racer with lit out drives what can I do to free up the drive train
And I tented to forget to check wheel nuts after every run and now I lose a wheel once a night sometimes even if I tighten them any ideas on what I can do sorry about the spelling


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## patcollins

Sounds like you need a new set of wheel nuts. Make sure the little plastic insert in the nut goes down over the threaded part because that is what locks it in place.


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## Guest

order them the other night is there any thing that wont ware out as fast


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## Guest

wattson,
here is what i do to my drive-train and it's a free as anyones... first of all, take all the grease off the gears, second, take the shims off the outdrives... sounds weird, but it works, and my gears are not wearing much if any....


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## Guest

thank you 
ill take the shim out of the front i took it out of the rear a long time ago


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## rc-jockey

Questions from a New tc3 freak. 
"What Aluminum hop up parts are better than the Factory Graphite pieces?" 
Titanium parts sure cost $$, any advantage?
Thanks, I'm glad I found this Board


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## DynoMoHum

What ever is on the TC3 factory team car is about all you should ever need at this point I think. Even some of those parts are not really nessasary.

If you don't already have them, threaded shocks are nice...

In my humble opion, titanium screws and such are not needed, and are just for show.


----------



## Guest

Wattson: try putting the wheel nuts on with the nylock on the inside (backwards), most of the problem is not in the nut but in the length of the axle that extends through the nylock portion of the nut. Or, you could pick up a bottle of clear finger nail polish and put a dab on the axle threads before installing the nut, it dries quick acts like lock-tight and releases easly.

rc-jockey: save your money on the alum parts, graphite are brittle, just use the composite parts til you have mastered the art of not hitting anything. The advantage (if any) of light parts are negated very quickly when waiting for the corner marshall to put you back in the race. After you have mastered the driving part start replacing parts that are worn out with parts that will reduce rotating mass, or are stronger or lighter than stock parts. Composite parts flex to absorb the impact, alum bends and is ruined, graphite breaks, stock up on the graphite parts. I agree with TMFU that the threaded shocks should be the first alum part, makes the car so much easier to adjust.

Good luck to all

Thumper


----------



## harley

wattson....try the Trinity wheel nuts, they are lowerprofile that the stock nuts. Far as freeing up the tranny, if you feel comfortable about removing the seals on the bearings do so and spray out the greese they pack in them. But remember that now the bearings are exposed to dirt and more cleaning will be needed but this lets the drivetrain freewheel more.

boostegtp...couple questions on the car...are you setting the car up race-ready but without the body? when you use the MIP tweak station are you doing both ends of the car...turning the car around? The only other question is it the composite chassis? I had one and found the car wouldn't handle right to which I found the chassis was tweaked. I bought the graphite chassis and the car handle 100% better.

Hope this helps


----------



## TheBoss

Just an update from yesterday's carpet racing in Stockton, CA (site of this year's '02 ROAR Carpet Onroad Nats).....Barry Baker absolutely dominated the track....2nd place was one lap down and going a second lap down when time expired...everybody else was already 2 laps down...his tc3 was...well....DIALED!)


----------



## DynoMoHum

Associated also sells nuts that have lower profile and where the nylon will reach the axle and therefore stay on... I don't remember what part number they are... They come in a bag with six aluminum low profile nuts... (not anodized) and also about six black plastic/nylon nuts... I don't know for sure what these nuts were originaly packaged for, but the aluminium nuts that come in this package work great for the TC3... 

I really have no idea how those blue aluminum nuts got used on the TC3... they don't work. Unless you turn them inside out like someone else suggested.


----------



## gibbous

Hi guys,

I haven't raced my TC3 since Novemeber. Any funky new mods or hop-ups come out?


----------



## TheBoss

Gibbous,
Does your car have droop screws? Other than that....nothing really that new.

I finally acquired an IRS chassis....works very well on carpet.


----------



## Guest

Is the center drive shaft weak? We had 4 shafts break between 2 guys running Mod on carpet today.


----------



## gibbous

Hey Boss,

Yeah, I got 'em. Working nice. My next upgrade might be a digital servo.

Masami - I've broken shafts on occasion after a crash or some other catastrophic event. I'd still call it uncommon, though.


----------



## Powerpark

TheBoss
I just got a IRS chassie too. Its really sweet. Can you email me a carpet setup? [email protected]


----------



## TheBoss

Masami,
with the stock TC3 driveshafts...ALWAYS glue the ends to the shafts, especially in mod.

I have repaired several driveshafts at the track for the mod guys with Team Losi tire glue.....if the shaft has never seperated, just dribble a little glue around the seperation where the shaft and the end are joined together.

PowerPark...check yer email.


----------



## Rich Chang

The droop screws should not be used to set ride height. Ride height should be set using the shock collars.

If the droop screws are used to set ride height, then you are pretty much eliminating uptravel, and thus, pretty much eliminating chassis roll. You then risk picking up the outside tires when cornering hard.

Here is a simplified way of looking at droop:

Whichever corner (front or rear) hits the screws first is where the greatest pressure on the tire contact patch occurs, and thus where the 'steering' occurs.

So, if the car's uptravel (the droop screws affect the uptravel of the chassis) is limited at the rear before the front, you will get a push-like situation. If it is limited at the front before the rear, you will get more steering.

As I said, that is a very simplified way of looking at it.

NOTE, this is something a lot of folks forget --> you can use that droop gauge to set your droop, but droop is directly related to ride height. The droop limits your _uptravel_. Most of the folks that are running foam tires on the TC3 limit their car to 1mm uptravel front and rear. 

Depending on my tire size, in keeping a 4mm right height front and rear and 1 mm uptravel, sometimes my droop setting is 6 front, 5 rear, and sometimes it is 7 front, 6 rear.

Droop needs to be set from ride height.

So, to set the front droop (uptravel):

1. set the car down
2. compress the chassis
3. see what the front ride height is
4. For the front, lift up at the front shock tower until the chassis hits the droop screws, then measure that ride height at the front. From there, the difference is your uptravel. 
5. repeat steps 2 thru 4 to set the rear, but for step 4, lift up at the rear shock tower and measure the ride height at the rear.

I pretty much eyeball it now and go by feel, but the above is a more accurate way of measuring your uptravel.

Once I have that set, then I will use the droop gauge and see what the droop settings are and make them equal left to right.

Also, if you have your car ride height biased either front or rear, then your droop settings will vary due to that. Again, droop/uptravel is affected by ride height.

If you change your ride height setting, then your droop/uptravel setting will change.

For example, if you lower your ride height and not adjust your droop settings, then you will cause your car to have more uptravel, and thus more roll.

-Rich




> <font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">Originally posted by TMFU:
> *What I don't understand about droop is this...
> 
> Why is it objectional to have more downward travel of the suspension? It seems to me that as long as you get the ride height right with the springs, it should not matter if the suspension has extended travel, as would be the case if you don't use droop screws or spacers in the shock.
> 
> *</font>


----------



## DynoMoHum

I think I understand now... Too bad I don't have droop screws... and I'm too lazy to tear apart my shocks all the time to adjust it... 

I guess if I figure my ride height is going to be pretty much the same all the time, I can just make the adjustments once inside the shocks and then live with the results as the tires wear. 

Or I could go buy a new graphite chassis package and use my old parts as spares...

Maybe next year.


----------



## Rich Chang

TMFU/Glenn - I'm pretty sure you can use the arms with the droop screws with the old chassis. Or, you can buy the factory team chassis I'm selling.









Anyways, your car felt pretty good when I drove it at G.R. so I would just run it as is for now and just get more used to turning right.


----------



## Guest

> <font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">Originally posted by rchang:
> *TMFU/Glenn - I'm pretty sure you can use the arms with the droop screws with the old chassis. Or, you can buy the factory team chassis I'm selling.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyways, your car felt pretty good when I drove it at G.R. so I would just run it as is for now and just get more used to turning right.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *</font>



yes he's right you can use the droop screws on the older chassis, i use them on mine and they work fine, pretty close to the edge of the chassis though.


----------



## Rich Chang

Sweet! Yeah, I thought about this a little more, and the droops screws I have are a little bevelled at the end. One could probably grind that down so it is flat and thus give a bigger contact patch for the old chassis to hit.

-Rich




> <font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">Originally posted by steve ruff:
> *
> yes he's right you can use the droop screws on the older chassis, i use them on mine and they work fine, pretty close to the edge of the chassis though.*</font>


----------



## sheath

Speaking of droop and ride height... my problem is traction rolling in the corners. How much does tire size play into all this? I'm running Proline Purples front and rear at the size the come out of the package. I have my droop set similar to other racers I run with, but notice that many of them have the tires trued down much further. It would seem to make sense that my droop should be more than theirs(me having bigger tires), given equal ride height. Otherwise my uptravel would be more than theirs, correct? Sound logical? If I don't have more droop, would this contribute to my traction rolling problem?


----------



## Rich Chang

Hi Sheath,

Yep, if you are running bigger tires but have the same ride height as your buddies, who have smaller tires, then you will have a lot more uptravel and thus a lot more chassis roll.

So, you will need to have a higher droop setting than your buddies.

Measure what their front and rear uptravels are using a ride height gauge (if you like the way their cars handle) and then set yours to be the same. Then use the droop gauge to get your droop settings equal left to right.

I'm sure you already know this, but don't forget to gear down from what they run since you are running much larger tires.


----------



## sheath

Thanks, Rich, that makes sense. I guess the lightbulb should have come on when my problem started after I put on new tires. At least I remembered to gear down.


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## Rich Chang

No problem! Glad I could help!

There are so many things that affect handling on these touring cars.









The best thing is probably to rank each compenent (ie: camber link position, camber link lenght, shock positions, shock oil, shock spring, etc) as to how much they affect the handling of the car and then work from there.

I usually try to keep some aspect of it constant (ie: camber link positions, camber link lengths, and shock spring and oil) and adjust other areas. I usually start with droop as my first adjustment when I go to a new track. After that, then mess with diff tightness front and rear, etc.

I'm not like Josh Cyrul and those other pros who can tell exactly what needs to be changed. So, in order to not go crazy trying to change everything, I leave certain settings constant and adjust everything around that.







Nutty, eh? hehe!

btw: the droop setting may or may not help your traction rolling issue. Camber setting, how much you are doping the tires, and other factors can cause it.

-Rich


----------



## Brant

I race carpet with my TC3. I run yellows on the front, purples on the rear, and 80 wt all around. I started with a 4.5mm ride height and was rubbing at the corner at the end of the straight and in the infield sweepers. I moved to a 5.0mm ride height and that wasn't enough. so I went to white springs up front. All of a sudden my car wasn't as easy to drive. I changed back to yellows up front and the ease of driving came back.

I've bought and installed front and rear sway bars with the thought that I could lower my ride height to 4.0mm and not drag on the carpet, and my ease of driving would still be there with the yellow/purple springs. Any thoughts on this?


----------



## Rich Chang

A few questions:

1. Are you running rubber or foam tires?
2. Are you running stock or mod?
3. What are you camber link positions, shock tower positions, and droop settings?

We can work from there.


----------



## Guest

RPM used to make some clips that snap on the shock shaft. You could use these to limit the up travel to keep the chassis from draging. My would drag enough that it was loose in the high speed sweeper. This fixed that. 

The droop screws don't need to be ground flat they won't exert enough force to justify that. I have ran mine forever on the old style chassis and there are no marks.


----------



## Guest

Hi,

Got a quick question. Could someone measure how much space there is for the ESC? I'll be usingn a stardard servo and futuba reciever. I want to use a novak dually, but I think it's too big. If it, how much will it affect CG by putting it vertical? Thanks


----------



## Brant

rchang,

front:rear tires - jaco purple/orange







urple
motor - stock
front camber link - lower;inner
rear camber link - lower;inner
front shocks - outer
rear shocks - outer
front droop 1mm uptravel
rear droop 2mm uptravel

Brant


----------



## DynoMoHum

The amount of space for a ESC in a TC3 with full size futaba radio equipment is very small, I could not get any of the speedos I had in that spot... I think it's less then 1.2" front to rear. I wound up buying a Quantom Pro Reverse... mostly because of the size, but also because I wanted reverse with reasonably good specs. 

I see many people putting the speedos in vertical. I really don't like that option, but short of a really tiny speedo like the Quantums, that is what you will need to do.


----------



## Rich Chang

Hi Brant,

Your setup is pretty close to what I have. My suggestion is for you to raise your camber links to the inner, upper holes. The car will steer harder, so just dope less of the front tire and dial out steering on your radio. That should help somewhat with the chassis roll. You are getting a lot of camber change with the camber links lowered like that which causes your chassis to roll more. I assume you have the long camber link position at the rear (outer hole on the hub?). Anyways, raising your links will help keep your chassis flatter when cornering. 

Don't forget to reset your camber settings when you raise the links. 

If you don't like the feel of both camber links raised, then lower the front link only. That should smooth things out a bit.

What is your camber settings? I run about -1.5 up front and -2.0 at the rear.

The other thing I did to help with this is I also bevelled/rounded off the bottom, outer edge of the chassis. You can either do it with a dremel or a belt-sander.

-Rich




> <font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">Originally posted by Brant:
> *rchang,
> 
> front:rear tires - jaco purple/orange
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> urple
> motor - stock
> front camber link - lower;inner
> rear camber link - lower;inner
> front shocks - outer
> rear shocks - outer
> front droop 1mm uptravel
> rear droop 2mm uptravel
> 
> Brant*</font>


----------



## Brant

rchang,

You are talking about raising the roll center of both the front and rear tracks, and if it gets to difficult to drive, lowering the roll center of the front track. "I 've always been afraid to play with the camber link positions, but you have put in on my mind!" If I am going to try this I had better spend a test and tune day at the track versus trying this on a race day.

When you talk of steering hard, do you mean that a little input products a lot of response, or do you mean the total amount of steering increases?

My camber is set at 1.5° front and 1.5° rear. My tire wear is pretty even so I am reluctant to move to 2°.

Brant


----------



## Rich Chang

Hi Brant,

Yeah, if you tires are wearing flat, then leave it alone. Just reset the settings once you change the camber links.









When I raised the links, the car felt like it smoothed out better and had a lot more consistent turn at corner entrance, mid point, and exit. I could drive a lot harder in to the corner yet keep good corner speed.

Personally, I like a "sensitive" car. Some other folks don't. 

Definitely try it out in a practice session. It will probably take a battery or pack to get used to.

However, I am fairly certain the car will react a lot better for you (be a lot more responsive) -- especially through switch backs/chicanes, etc. You can probably soften up your car shock wise. But, do the camber link positions first and see.

Anyways, when I ran the camber links in the lower holes, the car felt too lazy for me.


----------



## Guest

Actually, if you raise the link you lower the roll center correct? The further up and in the lower the roll center is what i thought...


----------



## TheBoss

By moving the link up, the roll center is moved up.

Think of it this way....the imaginary line (an X) from the lower left inner hinge pin to the upper right inner hole on the shock tower (half of the X)....other half being the lower right inner hinge pin and the upper left inner hole on the shock tower.

By raising the inner camber links, the roll center is moved up...because the center of the X is raised....and the car will react sooner to the change in the chassis as it enters, traverses, and exits the corners.

Now, by moving the inner camber link positions in or out, affects how quickly the car reacts in the corners. Why? The further out on the shock tower the inner, upper camber link position, the sooner the suspension is affected by the chassis roll....so....the quicker reacting the car will be (if the traction is there, etc, etc).

Just a thought! 

[This message has been edited by TheBoss (edited 02-28-2002).]


----------



## rayhuang

Tom,

Awesome explanation!!! You must read Carrol Smith books!!

Wanna really make your head hurt??? Remember as the car moves the roll center is constantly in flux. Its never in the same spot for more than a millisecond of time.
All this talk of suspension geomtery is soo interesting but it really does make my feeble brian matter hurt!!!!


----------



## TheBoss

Ray,
Yep...exactly right.

The NUMBER 1 TUNING ITEM THAT NOBODY DOES!!!.....is.......

Try EVERY single camber and shock link on the car....on back to back to back packs....WITH a LAP TIMER!!


----------



## DaWrench

Ray:

Hi, you need to get a CAD program that lets you "model" your camber links and changes............now we need to figure out just how far the suspension does move...... THAT WILL really drive you nuts....I know as we have a program at work that I can play with.....now if I only learned all that geometry(sp??) in school.
oooh to be young again.

DaWrench.and fading fast.


----------



## rayhuang

DaWrench and Tom, I finally did play around with roll center changes and Caster changes and it really was quite interesting. What I felt most was Caster of course. I went with *more caster* and yes it did _take away turn in._ The trade off was the car came back at the apex and exit with more grip and control. It was also very easy to drive in the flowing parts of the track as well. Losing the turn in might not be a serious problem for most people, but I tend to lift too late and turn in too late for corners, so it was hurting me a little on one part of the track. It was cool to "feel" what we discussed in theory here!!!.


----------



## SilverEvader

Hey all,

I'm sure alot of my questions have alredy been answered here, so I will read all 7 pages (when I have time). I just bought a RTR TC3 last nite. Most of the guys here in town run Nitro RS4s on a dusty asphault parking lot. Is it possible to make the TC3 keep up? If so any suggestions? Thanks in advanced...


----------



## Aaron Bomia

If the Nitro cars are dialed in, and the track is more suited (size-wise) to Nitro racing, then I wouldn't expect your RTR TC3 could keep up with them.



> <font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">Originally posted by SilverEvader:
> *Hey all,
> 
> I'm sure alot of my questions have alredy been answered here, so I will read all 7 pages (when I have time). I just bought a RTR TC3 last nite. Most of the guys here in town run Nitro RS4s on a dusty asphault parking lot. Is it possible to make the TC3 keep up? If so any suggestions? Thanks in advanced...*</font>


----------



## Rich Chang

yep - I agree with Aaron.

The nitro cars are especially going to have the advantage on the straightaways.

Unless the nitro car folks are fairly good drivers, I would not recommend running your electric car with them. The reason is, if they aren't courteous drivers and also can't hold a steady line, you are going to have a very high risk of broken parts.


----------



## Aaron Bomia

Are you talking about yourself again???



> <font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">Originally posted by rchang:
> *...Unless the nitro car folks are fairly good drivers, which I'm not, I would not recommend running your electric car with them. The reason is, if they aren't courteous drivers and also can't hold a steady line, like myself, then you are going to have a very high risk of broken parts.*</font>


----------



## Rich Chang

Hardy hardy har har har! Funny boy.


----------



## Aaron Bomia

Thanks so much.











> <font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">Originally posted by rchang:
> *Hardy hardy har har har! Funny boy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *</font>


----------



## SilverEvader

Kinda what I figured. Just found out that I am not the only electric thats gonna be out there so I should have some fair competition, well except for them mod motors they all have.


----------



## Guest

*More rookie questions...*

I'm glad there's a TC3 forum!

I just got into R/C, and have a RTR TC3. I had a battery problem that is now fixed (I think they were "false peaking"). The car runs like a scalded dog, and my run time was over 10 minutes. The motor wasn't hot, and neither were the batteries.

Anyway....here's my questions:

1) The drivetrain seems to have freed itself up (the wheels are a lot easier to turn) and the car has less than 20 minutes of run time. This is normal, right? How often should I check the diffs to insure they are lubed? (or do I need to check at all?)

2) The car was "tracking" to the left (looking from the rear) when I first ran it. It wouldn't hold a straight line. (this is with NO steering input on the transmitter) I don't have a gauge, so I checked the camber using the "3X5 card" method. Both front and rear left side wheels were more like 4 degrees than 2 degrees! I adjusted the camber (again using a 3X5 card) and all four wheels are pretty darn close, now. Ran the car again last night, and it's still tracking left, though not quite as bad. BTW-If I run the car in reverse, it tracks straight.  

Sorry for all the questions, but I'm new at this! 

Thanks in advance!

Allen


----------



## Guest

How do the Losis do on your local tracks. I had one and the speed did not seem to match the TC3s. I sold it and kept the TC3. A couple of guys went to a track about a month after the XXXs came out there were losis everywhere. They went back a month later and there was only 1 losi running. It was the same people but they bought new FTTC3s. Now I am talking stock racing not mod. How do the cars fair in your area?


----------



## SilverEvader

Hey all,

I just bought a Robinson Racing spur gear for me TC3 and when I went to install it I could not tget the motor out. I took out the 2 allen screws(1 with spring, 1 without) that hold down the battery clamp. At this point it appears only the motor cam(which is screwed to the motor) is the only thing left holding the motor in. Tried to pull straight up on the motor, didn't work. Tried to rock the motor side to side, while pulling up, didn't work. Am I missing something. Oh yeah I already had the pnion loose and the spur out. This is a RTR straight out the box with 2 packs run on it.


----------



## rayhuang

*Motor stuck!!!*

SilverEvader,

You have done all you can. At this point the cam pretty much had to have eaten a rock/pebble and the motor is stuck in it. am afraid a very strong pull, or a push from the bottom is your only chance. maybe some lube dripped into the cam and motor mount area might help too. remember to clean that out completely whe you are done!!!


----------



## SilverEvader

Ray,

I took it back apart and used a pair of needlenose in the holes in the casing to rock it back and forth. It worked, there was a bunch of grit around the cam. I appreciate the help...:thumbsup:


----------



## Guest

Hey all I just traded for a tc3 and it was missing a couple of things.A battery strap the screws for the motor mount (and spring)and direction booklet I was wondering if anyone had the time to send me a copy of their exploded view of the chassis and parts list so I can have some views to go by.I would really appreciate it if someone could help me out:thumbsup: 
Will Garner


----------



## sheath

You can download the exploded view, parts list and instruction manual from the Associated website. www.rc10.com


----------



## Guest

sheath said:


> *You can download the exploded view, parts list and instruction manual from the Associated website. www.rc10.com  *


Thanks dude I got it it took me a second to find it but i got it.:thumbsup: :hat:


----------



## ontheedge61

I just bought a TC3 and the only steering servo I have handy is a Hitec 225. It's small and will require new mounting holes. I just question if this is strong enough for a touring car. The data sheet lists 67 oz-in. torque at 6 volts. Any thoughts??


----------



## rayhuang

*Dont do it!!!!*

hello ontheedge,

Dont put that servo in your car. You'll hate it and you'll also think you are having serious handling problems as you getbtter and better at driving. the reason is torque speed and what is seldom printed on less expensive servos-holding power. When you are going through a fast corner with a cheap servo, the servo cant hold the position you have asked of it at the wheel. Therfore the car wanders. Also-dont expect the plastic gears in the servo to last when (not saying you will) hit a board!!! Go and get at least a JR Z550 race servo, or a middle road Hitec or Futaba servo for now. When you are ready-get a VERY GOOD servo. One thats more than you should spend!!! Futaba 9404 or 9402, JR 8450 digital, KO or Airtronics 94357, etc.

I did exactly what you are planning 4-years ago and ended up buying everything twice!!! Cheap stuff first-qulaity stuff second. look for used good servos for now as well!!!

ray


----------



## Guest

rich beings I dont know much about the TC3 would the 605bb do it.I think it would but it sounds you know more about it.I had good luck with them in my nitro cars.
Will Garner.:thumbsup:


----------



## Guest

*rookie questions......(see above)*

Can anyone answer the "rookie" questions I posted the other day? I asked about diff maintenance and the car "tracking" to one side.

(see above post titled "more rookie questions")

Thanks! 

Allen:thumbsup:


----------



## TheBoss

TC3 Tracking....first...make sure one of the wheel nuts is not overtightened and all the bearings are free.

Next....make sure the front and rear diff's are set the same. If the rear is tighter than the front, the rear will try to overtake the front.

Also...make sure the front toe out is the same on the left and the right. Yes...I did type toe OUT....helps cars track correctly...and four wheel drive tends to pull the wheels in when under power.

See if any of this helps.


----------



## ontheedge61

Ray,

Thanks for the help. This is a great example of the good of these posts, you just saved me a lot of potential aggravation.


----------



## Guest

Boss,

Thanks for the reply. I'm learnin'! 

I'll see how it checks out.

Thanks again! Allen:thumbsup:


----------



## TheBoss

BigAl......that is what we are here for...including YOU!


----------



## ontheedge61

Boss,

Being new to TC, what is the best way to check the diffs??? Just how critical is it to set them the same?


----------



## Guest

I am having problems keeping the rear pins in the hubs. It seems that the set screw will not tighten enough to keep the pin from moving. I installed new rear hubs and noticed that there was a thin layer of graphite that kept the set screw from actually touching the pin. Is this normal or should the graphite be drilled out? Could I use a Dremel tool and put a flat spot on the pin to keep it from coming out? Thanks for the help.


----------



## Rich Chang

Yeah, that's a not so great part.

Before I install the hinge pin, I screw the set screw all the way in so that it pierces that thin membrane of plastic/graphite, unscrew the set screw, and then push the hinge pin in so that it knocks that membrane out.

If there is still cruft in there, use an x-acto knife to clean it out (just to cut away the threads where the set screw goes).

Then, install the hub and it should work properly.


----------



## Aaron Bomia

You're such a nice guy. 



rchang said:


> *Yeah, that's a not so great part.
> 
> Before I install the hinge pin, I screw the set screw all the way in so that it pierces that thin membrane of plastic/graphite, unscrew the set screw, and then push the hinge pin in so that it knocks that membrane out.
> 
> If there is still cruft in there, use an x-acto knife to clean it out (just to cut away the threads where the set screw goes).
> 
> Then, install the hub and it should work properly. *


----------



## DriverX

*bearing help?*

:dude: 
I am having a problem with the axle bearings on my TC3. Is there any thing I should be doing differently? 
Here is a run down of the car and conditions FT TC3 with all the graphite parts except the front hubs and they are the plastic versions to prevent from breaking then easily. I run the aluminum bones and graphite hex adapters. Indoor carpet, BUD”S bumper on the front. Now these bearings are going bad after maybe 5 runs and it seems to be the front that I see the most problems. This is a big expense in running this car. Now most people would jump up and suggest that I need to not hit as many boards. But I don’t think that I am that bad I mean that is something that I would understand but this is ridiculous. Anyone got any ideas???

Tracey Fogleson


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## rayhuang

*Bearings*

That is way too fast to be losing bearings for sure!!! Make sure of one thing and that is you are using good quality nylock nuts. Use high quality or new so that you dont have to tighten them so much to keep the wheels on. Next-make sure you are using the crush sleeeves inbetween the bearings in the hubs. Also-take the hubs out of the car, but with the driveshaft, hex adapetr, etc. all attached. Do the bearings spin freely like this when new? If not-you might have bent stub-axles or a pooorly mlded hub carrier(unlikely).
IMHO-the wheel nuts are too tight. Bearings are not designed to take huge side-loads. Also-shim out most of the play between the pin and the bearing. That might help a little too.


----------



## DriverX

:thumbsup: 

I think you may have hit on something, I tend to tighten the wheel nut very tight to prevent them from coming off. This may have a lot to do with this problem. I have checked the axle to see if they were straight, and they look great. I do run the sleeves, but I have noticed that the roll pins are bent. Someone told me that I should use the aluminum hex adapters because they are better is this true have you found this to help?

Tracey Fogleson


----------



## Rich Chang

Tracey - if you are going to be at Toledo this weekend, let me take a peek at your car.

The biggest thing with the bearings is keeping them free of carpet fuzz. Are you running shields on your bearings? Also, what Ray said is causes of the problem you have.

I've run the same bearings all season. I probably clean them once a month maybe. But, I check them every other run to make sure there isn't carpet fuzz accumulating between the steering knuckle and the drive hex.


----------



## Rich Chang

Hi Tracey,

Yeah, over tightening is a problem. If you are having problems with the wheel nuts falling off, you can either thread lock them in, or else use the Trinity wheel nuts (they are shallower so the nylon locking part hits the axle better).

I run the graphite wheel hexes, so the aluminum one shouldn't matter. 

-Rich




DriverX said:


> *:thumbsup:
> 
> I think you may have hit on something, I tend to tighten the wheel nut very tight to prevent them from coming off. This may have a lot to do with this problem. I have checked the axle to see if they were straight, and they look great. I do run the sleeves, but I have noticed that the roll pins are bent. Someone told me that I should use the aluminum hex adapters because they are better is this true have you found this to help?
> 
> Tracey Fogleson *


----------



## rayhuang

*Aluminum is good*

 ALuminum hex adapters are good, but dont know if it solve the bering problem at all. I bend my roll pins after awhile too. It's inevitable!!! They weigh a little more-but try and get steel hex nuts in the half height size (half as thick as regular nuts). If you cant find them anywhere-let me know and I'll hook-you-up.


----------



## rayhuang

*great minds think alike or is it....*

a mind is a terrible ting???

Thanks for backing me up Mr. Chang. WHat a nice guy you!!!!


----------



## DriverX

Rich I don't know if seeing the car will help I have it apart now so it prolly is not going to help but I can bring it. I am having so much fun with the 12th scale car that I may not run the TC3 until next fall but who knows.

what are you guys doing to get the free feeling in the car? I mean with the motor out of the car and spin a tire that is the free feeling that I am looking for. I think that I am closer now than before but man some of these cars just are super free. I have removed the seals from the inner tranny bearings and stuff like that but it still seems not to be where I would like it. is there anything you are doing diffrent.

Tracey Fogleson
:dude:


----------



## Rich Chang

Hi Tracey,

Yeah, I'm done with TC until this fall. I'm just running 1/12th this Sunday, and then I am done with all electric racing until fall. Nitro nitro nitro! haha!

For freeing up the car, the big thing is the tranny cases. If the diff w/bearings is tight in the diff housings (upper and lower) then that is a lot of the problem. I had to lightly and carefully dremel out the flat edge of where the bearings rest in the upper and lower diff housings.

The basic test is, put the diff with bearings into the lower diff housing. If it slides in easy, then you are golden. If you can remove it without feeling any resistance, then you are golden. The same for the upper diff housing. If those are not the case, then you will need to break out the dremel or some sand paper.

I've seen a lot of instances where you put the diff w/bearings in the diff housing, hold the diff housing upside down (so that the diff assembly should drop out) and it is stuck in the diff housing. That's bad and causes the tranny to be bound up.

The other thing is whether all the grease that comes in the bearings has been sprayed out. I oil my bearings with either Trinity Royal Oil or Zubak Speed Lube (depends on what mood I am in, or whichever bottle is closer to me).


----------



## DriverX

Rich, after you worked on the tranny cases did you then put shims in on the outdrives to take up any side to side play and how much gear mesh on the tranny gears would you use? thanks a bunch what I have done so far has made a world of diffrence.

see you sunday


----------



## Rich Chang

Hi,

I luckily managed to do it so that I didn't have to use any shims.

However, there is nothing wrong with using shims, so if you have too much side-to-side play, then the shims can be used.

-Rich


----------



## SilverEvader

*New Body*

Anyone got any preference on which bodies have any advantages???
:devil:


----------



## Rich Chang

I'm pretty lame - all I've ever run is the Stratus bodies. I prefer the Proline Stratus since it has a lot smoother profile compared to the Andy's Stratus and Andy's Yokomo Stratus.

A lot of folks ran the Volvo body this last season and seemed to like that, too.


----------



## Guest

I personally like the HPI Cougar body.I bought it because I used to have one and I got it for looks and the "cool" factor but man was I in for a shock!It was the only body that Ive ever had that I noticed performance gains.Ive had alot of bodies over time but this one just rocks.Ill be getting another for this season.I used it on nitro but I dont know if it will be good on elec.If you want to try something different then I say go with the Cougar.


----------



## tfrahm

*Adj Rear Toe Conversions*

Way back over on "About", there were some posts about two (or more?) versions of "conversions" to change the rear of the TC3 to adjustable Toe-In...

Both main approaches invovled using the front A-arms, hubs, etc. on the rear, with turnbuckles tied to the chassis as "tie-rods" to adjust the toe-in. One version put the shocks on the front, one put them on the back.

It's been a long time, and I would like to see the pictures, and conversion details again. My reason is simple, I have one TC3 that still has the defective rear hubs and the LHS still has bad ones in stock... I'm tired of putting up with the weird handling and would like to "fix" it once and for all...

This is my "backup" sedan, so I've put it off until now. One key for me would be finding the new front A-arms with the additional outer shock mounting hole...


----------



## Brant

*Ajustable rear toe in*

The article you are looking for is on teamrcv.com. Go to articles. Then type TC3 in the search box. That is what you are looking for.


----------



## patcollins

Tom actually the so called rear toe problem in many cars isnt caused by the rear bearing carriers but the suspension mounts. Most people put one side on and then bend the other so that it fits. This causes excessive toe on one side. You basically have to bend both sides an equal amount.


----------



## ghoulardi

Been usin the lexus. Just threw the car together after a season of oval with a "way out" setup. Car was glued to the parking lot. Gonna try a 300M next. Will let you know. BTW, the 300M is THE oval body. Unless they'll let you run Parma's dirt modified. 


:lol:


----------



## ghoulardi

So what changes do I need to make when I go from 3 deg toe in to 2 deg? Ran 0 deg on oval all winter. WAAAY fast! Want to change to 2 deg for on road in parking lot. Other than the rather large w/b change what else do I need to change?


----------



## tfrahm

patcollins said:


> *Tom actually the so called rear toe problem in many cars isnt caused by the rear bearing carriers but the suspension mounts. Most people put one side on and then bend the other so that it fits. This causes excessive toe on one side. You basically have to bend both sides an equal amount. *


Sorry, but that's not my situation. The early molds for the rear TC3 hubs had a built in error of 1 degree -- since both hubs came from the same mold, the left side "gained" one degree and the right side "lost" on degree. After months of haggling, AE admitted the problem, but not very openly -- for a brief time, they would replace defective hubs. That time is past, however from what I can tell.

I finally found "good" hubs, and WITHOUT changing suspension mounts (ONLY changing the hubs), the problem was cured. I originally (back when we were trying to prove to AE that THEY had a problem), I went to great lengths working with protractors, etc. to PROVE that the A-arms were at the proper angle and that the ERROR was in the molding of the hubs... Once you find "good" hubs, the problem is instantly cured.

*My problem is/was in the HUBS -- period.* This is not to say that there may not be a way to screw up the assembly and alter the geometry of the TC3 suspension, but that was NOT my problem...


----------



## Mayhem

*A couple questions*

Hello i'm new to the touring scene and have a couple of questions regarding adjusting castor on a TC3. What are the numbers on the hinge pin mounts? Ex: F= 3+2 Etc. Mean? I'm assuming castor or anti-squat or something???
Also, the "C" blocks (for lack of a better name),that the dogbone passes through,I noticed that those come in different shapes with different protrusions to the rear. Also castor? Thanks in advance.
I'm hooked on sedans, after 15 years of oval racing, its fun again and I have a lot to learn, its like starting overagain! Thanks again. HB


----------



## rayhuang

*Caster and Kick-up!!*

Mayhem,

The front hingepin blocks are fixed on the back position, but you can change the front block to run zero or 2 degrees of kick-up (F+0 and F+2). This amount of Kick-up also affects your total caster number. The "C" blocks also come in various amounts of caster. You can buy 0, 2, 4 degree caster blocks ("C" blocks). So lets us this as an example. You set up car with the hingepin block labeled F+2. You have installed the 2 degree caster block, you are now running 4 degrees of caster.

Ray


----------



## Rich Chang

What sucks is that for the longest time I thought there was something wrong with my setup tools b/c they kept showing a degree off for the rear toe between the left and right side.



tfrahm said:


> *My problem is/was in the HUBS -- period.*


----------



## Aaron Bomia

I think it was your poor eyesight......and those losi hubs.



rchang said:


> *What sucks is that for the longest time I thought there was something wrong with my setup tools b/c they kept showing a degree off for the rear toe between the left and right side.
> 
> *


----------



## Rich Chang

Aren't you a funny boy. We'll 'see' who has the last laugh this Saturday at the track when I t-bone your car -- "Oh, shoot, I didn't _see_ your car there." haha!


----------



## patcollins

OH yea you can use losi XXX-S hubs, actually Im switching to them because they mount the ball stud vertically and that allows much more adjustability of roll center.


----------



## Rich Chang

Yeah, I ran those the latter half of last year. Smoothed the car's response out and made it a lot easier to drive the car hard.

I'm going to run their C-hubs and knuckles up front this season, too. They are a lot more durable and also allow more steering throw.


----------



## tfrahm

*LOSI rear hubs on TC3*

On the LOSI hubs (I have some now), the hole furthest from the wheel is about where the normal "outer" hole is on the TC3 hubs... Using that hole would thus be no change (other than the ball stud being vertical)... Right?

Using the LOSI "outer" hole (closest to the wheel) would lengthen the upper camber link...

Which way are YOU using these hubs, and why? (What kind of track, traction conditions, etc..)

Thanks in advance!


----------



## bshields

*Losi rear hubs*

I am running the camber link in the outside hole of the hub (long link setting). This seems to make the car feel a little more stable. It's a very small change in my book. 

I run the car in stock on about a 90 x 40 (do you agree Rich?) carpet track. I would think if you have alot of switch backs, you might want to change to the shorter link or adjust droop.


----------



## whoop_fast

I just got a used TC3 team car. I am on a budget, so I didnt put expensive items in it, but I still am using a Futaba 2ph, a Novak Explorer2, and a blue endbell paradox stock motor. Since it had no body, I went and got a RSX body. I have to say, I like the TC3 a lot!!! It handles so great, it has awesome acceleration, and top speed. But, I have a couple questions. First, what is the normal range of pinions for a stock motor? Also, what is a good shock oil weight for general running around, perhaps some casual racing? I have gold springs in front, and silvers in back. Lastly, I have to give it to you guys, touring car bodies are a hell of a lot harder to paint and cut out then stadium truck bodies. Any tips for wheel wells? Lastly, what are some good 190mm bodies besides the Stratus. I dont want to get a stratus just because they are so popular. Any suggestions?


----------



## rc-jockey

Ripped apart 2 spurs and pinions yesterday while parking lot racing my TC3. How do I solve this problems?


----------



## tfrahm

rc-jockey said:


> *Ripped apart 2 spurs and pinions yesterday while parking lot racing my TC3. How do I solve this problems? *


If you find a solution, let ME know, because Sunday I ruined a spur gear doing the same thing (local HobbyTown parking lot race)... Picked up a tiny rock, which got stuck and by the end of that heat race, the spur gear teeth all had "nicks" out of them -- and TC3 spurs are a "pain" to replace!


----------



## Rich Chang

Get some stiff screen door mesh - put some over the bottom hole under the spur gear opening, and build a 'cage' over the spur gear. 

If you look at the pics of the TC3-O that Dan Burnham built (pics are off of the RC Car Action website), that is an example.

-Rich


----------



## TheBoss

The other item in the "believe it or not" category, switch to 64 pitch. Yep...thought the same thing, but the small particles do not seem to affect them as muc as the 48 pitch spur gears.


----------



## davepull

*freeing up the drive train*

I just got a factory team tc3. I have seen other guys car drive trains spin very free how do I get mine like this?


----------



## TheBoss

Dave,
I have had a lot of success (or so I thought...read on)....until I man handled Barry Baker's TC3 at the ROAR Carpet Nats. Barry spun a wheel, walked away, came back, an HONEST 5 minutes later....and yes.....they were still spinning!!

I am completely impressed with the www.teambluestar.com/ bearings. VERY free and high quality bearings. They sell some on Ebay.

Shimming is critical of the input shafts and the diffs. It takes a while for the gear mesh to come in, some have used tooth paste to break them in....of course use old bearings. Use a 540 motor on about 4 volts.......um....for several hours. Use a toothpaste/oil mix....works good. Don't mix up the gear & pinions...they are broken in together now. Clean thoroughly and go. This helps quite a bit.


----------



## rc-jockey

The bearings in the tranny case should fall out when turned upside down and not hang up. Using an exto knife to shave the top inner edge till they loosen up.
Freeing up the drivetrain is discribed here. 
http://www.chicagotc.freeservers.com/tc3help.htm


----------



## rc-jockey

Checkout these 2 topic's on new TC3 Products:

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?s=&threadid=25192

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?s=&threadid=25294


----------



## TheBoss

Excellent info on the website as well!


----------



## kyle478

*tc3*

Has anyone here tryed the new a-arms?A couple of my friends that are using tc3's said the the new a-arms and the rear shock tower in place of the front is working really well. 

LMK If you have tryed it... Does it work? What did it do? How much of a effect does it have? 

LMK

kyle


----------



## Guest

Hi all, I just ordered my first RC Car. Ordered the RC10 TC3 RTR kit. Thought I would start off with this and build from there as interest and experience grows. I was curious though on what types of aftermarket bodies work on the TC3. I don't want to have the same looking blue or red body car on the track  I see HPI has some beautiful stuff and it says that some are 190mm and some are 200mm. I also found some info that said the HPI bodies will work if your car has a 10" wheelbase. TA says the TC3 has a 10.25" wheelbase. Will any HPI work? And if so do I go 190 or 200mm? If HPI is not an option please point me in the right direction. Thanks in advance for any info you may provide.

Thanks,

Walz


----------



## Rich Chang

Hi,

All 1/10th scale electric touring cars (TC for short) are 190mm. The 200mm bodies are for 1/10th scale nitro touring cars.

So, for your electric TC3 you will need to use the 190mm bodies.

In regards to whether the body will fit based on wheelbase, you can pretty much ignore that piece of information. They mainly say that in regards to the wheel openings if you use the molded lines to cut out the wheel openings.

What you will want to do is put some tires/rims on your TC3. Place the clear body shell on top of the car and let them rest on the body posts. Center the body (the easiest thing is to center the front axles in line with the front wheel wells) front to back and left to right. Then, mark the body post positions on the body.

Once that is done, you can use a body reamer to create openings for the body posts.

Cut out the bottom edge of the body so that when the body shell rests on the body post pads and the car is on the ground, the body doesn't hit the ground.

Then, put the body go over the body posts. You can then cut out the wheel wells front and rear. I usually use another tire/rim, center it on the axle (but on the outside of the body) and use that as a template to draw the circle for the wheel well opening.

There are various other ways to do it and various tricks you will learn as you mount more bodies. The above (to me) is one of the easiest ways to do it.

I usually paint the body before I start cutting out the wheel wells.

-Rich


----------



## Guest

Rich, Thanks for the quick response! This helps greatly. I'm sure you'll be seeing alot more of me once my car gets here and I get started in the hobby. 

Thanks again,


Walz


----------



## tfrahm

*Team Blue Star bearings*



TheBoss said:


> *.....
> I am completely impressed with the www.teambluestar.com/ bearings. VERY free and high quality bearings. They sell some on Ebay.
> *


"The Boss" -- I agree! I found some "Team Blue Star" bearings for my TC3 on e-bay, and after missing the first set (got "sniped" with 5 seconds to go!), I bought another set with the "Buy it Now" option... They promply responded, I paid via PayPal, they shipped the same day (August 8), arrived yesterday, I installed them last night, and I am HAPPY today! The bearings seem to be very high quality and VERY smoooooth! My TC3's drive train feels much smoother, and is much QUIETER... Sunday will be the on-track test, but I'm impressed so far!I believe they will free up even more after the first run or so due to the initial load of internal lube -- once that gets "run-in" and/or worked out, these things should really be magic!

Thanks for the tip!


----------



## TheBoss

Yep...they do free up some more. Good bearings. Did I snipe you? LOL! hehe


----------



## davepull

*blue star bearings*

Hey just a set of blue star bearings. they seem to be smoother than the ones with the factory team kit but when I put them in the car they don't spin as free. I have gone through the hole car making sure that the bearings aren't tight in there locations. my question is what have you been doing to clean them?


Dave


----------



## tfrahm

Dave -- I've only installed one set of Team Blue Star bearings so far (got the second set on the way, though)...

Mine were pretty much as you describe -- VERY smooooooth, but on the workbench, they didn't feel as 'FREE' as some bearings. However, I just took them on faith and put the car on the track with no "fiddling" with the bearings. The car was visibly quicker than with the old bearings -- I can only assume that the "SMOOTH" more than makes up for the 'free'...?

They did free up very slightly with use. I think the thing is that they are pre-lubed with some space age lube that "feels" less free, but under load on the track, that lube more than makes up for that by letting the bearings run really, really well.

I suppose you could soak them in a small jar of motor cleaner to thin out or wash out part of that lube, but so far, I feel like they run fine right out of the package...

Maybe TheBoss has more experience with them...?

(By the way, the folks at Team Blue Star are GREAT to work with...)


----------



## TheBoss

Give them 5 or so packs. They will be smooth.


----------



## davepull

*servo*

hey what servo would be the best fro my tc3? I am a serious racer and this is my first sedan. the guys down here all use mid line servos but I want the best.


----------



## TheBoss

Look in the General R/C Discussions area......under "Hopups that WORK V1.0". Your answer is there.


----------



## JONW1020

I am trying the rear shock tower on the front and want to know what is the advantage of running it, and also what hole everybody is running their shocks in. I don't have the new arms. I am running mine in the second hole and I can't get my ride height as low as I want it to go, I am trying to get 4.5mm and can't get but about 6mm, I have checked all shocks to make sure they are all the same lenght and I am running my droop at 6 in front and 4 in rear. Does anybody know what might be wrong.


----------



## TheBoss

Jon,
Did you space up the shock tower at the three mounting positions on top of the transmission case?


----------



## JONW1020

Yes I put a very thin washer under each screw.


----------



## TheBoss

Ah...use a 1/8" spacer to space up the shock tower.


----------



## TheBoss

Try this.....pics of my TC3...up close and personal! hehe

http://acloco.com/tc3tower.html


----------



## Rich Chang

Howdy Tom!

Long time.  Those look like Schumacher ball cups for the camber links? Good choice, if they are. You ever try using the schumacher blades on your axles? Those work really well and cut down on wear and tear on the diff out-drives.

I had a bunch of old Schumacher axles, popped the pin out of those, popped the pin out of the AE axles, popped the Schumacher pin in the AE axle, and attached the C-blade.

-Rich


----------



## davepull

why would you want to put the rear tower on the front? waht does it do?


----------



## TheBoss

I have switched EVERYTHING over to the Schuie ball cups. They are the best, longest wearing, tightest in the pocket, and really take abuse. I was absolutely tired of having a VERY sloppy suspension on every TC that I owned, so, took the plunged ($3.99) and bought the ball cups. This is one of the tips in the R/C Hopups that WORK v1.0 thread.

On one TC3, I used titanium ball studs everywhere, on the other, standard issue TC3 items. So far, so good...on BOTH cars.


----------



## TheBoss

davepull said:


> *why would you want to put the rear tower on the front? waht does it do? *


Lowers the roll center in the front, gives a little more steering throughout the range. I am using one for my TC3...with front and center one ways...VERY amazing corner speeds!!


----------



## JONW1020

Will that give me the adjustment of the shocks that I ame looking for, also what hole are you running in.


----------



## rc-jockey

Tom, 
Schumacher shows these types of ball cups,
which ones will fit the steering (tc3) and which ones
do I buy? I hate ordering somethin and gettin it wrong?

U1704K "Ball Grippa" Sockets (pk 8) $3.95 
U750X "Ball Grippa" Short Stud Ball Joint(8pr) $9.95


----------



## Rich Chang

Yep, same here. I had a big stash of them from when I ran the Axis and Axis II. I'm running out. 

I use them on my nitro TC and they definitely hold up well.

Give the schuie blades a try when you can, if you haven't already. I think it is well worth converting to.

-Rich




TheBoss said:


> *I have switched EVERYTHING over to the Schuie ball cups. They are the best, longest wearing, tightest in the pocket, and really take abuse. I was absolutely tired of having a VERY sloppy suspension on every TC that I owned, so, took the plunged ($3.99) and bought the ball cups. This is one of the tips in the R/C Hopups that WORK v1.0 thread.
> 
> On one TC3, I used titanium ball studs everywhere, on the other, standard issue TC3 items. So far, so good...on BOTH cars. *


----------



## TheBoss

John....I vary the upper shock position according to the track that I am running. Right now, upper shock hole is in the middle.

I can get to 4mm ride height in the front.

Rich....I believe I may just do that. I am now running metal diffs in the mod-motor TC3...and want them to last....I shall give it a try. Thanks!


----------



## Guest

*Replace Motor Question*

First, I am very much a beginner so that's why I am asking this question...how do you replace the motor in the RTR TC3. I have removed the motor clamp, however, the motor is still in there pretty snug. I don't want to break anything and the instructions make it look like the motor/motor cam/pinion all come out as one unit. Any help would be appreciated!


----------



## Guest

Just push it out fron the bottom. It should be fine. You will get the motor cam and pinion all at the same time


----------



## DerekManchester

rchang said:


> *Yep, same here. I had a big stash of them from when I ran the Axis and Axis II. I'm running out.
> 
> I use them on my nitro TC and they definitely hold up well.
> 
> Give the schuie blades a try when you can, if you haven't already. I think it is well worth converting to.
> 
> -Rich
> 
> 
> *


Rich,
Don't you have that Niftech tool for that?


----------



## Brant

*Pushing out motor*

Noid, I see you live in Richmond Hts, Ohio. There is an active racing club, NORCAR that races at the community center in Bratenahl. There are lots of guys running TC3s at all levels of skill. Sunday is their first event of the season. If you have any car questions, bring your car down and you will find all the help you need, better yet bring you stuff down and race. The web site for the club is www.the-big-al.com


----------



## Rich Chang

Niftech tool for which task? 



DerekManchester said:


> *
> 
> Rich,
> Don't you have that Niftech tool for that? *


----------



## DerekManchester

rchang said:


> *Niftech tool for which task?
> 
> *


Oops! Might help if I tell ya. For changing the pin out of the cvd.


----------



## Rich Chang

Ah, nope I had that jig made for me. 

It's like the Hudy one, but a lot cheaper (free versus about $50) and works a bit better (can't claim that against too many Hudy tools  ).


----------



## ghoulardi

hey noid; We"re running at the hobbytown on pearl rd. in strongsville on sundays. Moving indoors to the cuyahoga county fairgrounds on oct 17th. 1st class set up. New carpet and plenty of power and pit space.


----------



## Guest

*thanx.....*

Kicasso....thanks! Just needed to use a little elbow grease and twist it a bit and I got it right out.. 

I'll be at Bratenhal this Sunday. I have a topic that I started about getting my TC3 and have received a lot of info from Brat racers, so I'll be up there this weekend to get more info/tips and to get practice for the 1st race. I need practice so I can finish last place...in style....:dude:


----------



## davepull

*nitro tc3 question*

hey does anybody make aluminum tranny cases for the nitro car


----------



## Dan the Man

I just got a used TC3 over on the swap/sell forum. The drivetrain is... ratchety. Previous owner claims he had only a half-dozen runs on it. This I can believe; the car still has that new look. I took it apart; correct number of shims everywhere. There is no play in the drivetrain. None. Rear case is worse than the front but they're both bad.

Is this normal? How long until they really break in? I'll try shaving the outdrive bearing sockets. Running the thing for four hours on a power supply sounds like a nightmare. Adding toothpaste to the mix sounds destructive. rc-jockey's link from a few months back seems to be out of order, or blocked from work.

I've been reading back in the thread and have found some things to try. But really I'm disappointed. I'm used to the famous Stealth smoothness in my offroad cars.


----------



## rayhuang

Could be these things off the bat.


1. Thrust bearings improperly assembled.

2. Plastic flashing fell from screw hole in case and is inbetween the gleason gears.

3. Too long of a screw in the diff case and rubbing the tall gear.

4. Try taking out a shim from and reassembing.

5. Remove the CVD's from the diffs and spin drivetrain. Might have a crushed wheel bearing.


When the diffs in the TC3 are right, they are as smooth as butter and stay that way a long time!!!


----------



## Dan the Man

It's definitely a gear mesh problem.

I eliminated #5 and #2 by holding onto the spur gear and turning each end. Diffs are tight but smooth. The wheel bearings are sticky but smooth - they still have the grease packing.

I'm also pretty sure it's not 3. With the pinions out, the main spools are smooth, though not quite free. I still need to unpack those bearings as well.

Will give it a "shower and shave" and see if it helps...


----------



## Rich Chang

btw: with the plastic diff halves, you really should not need to use the shims for the outdrive bearings. That can affect your gear mesh in a big way.

-Rich


----------



## Dan the Man

Gave it all a good inspection. Seems that the ratchety motion is about 1/2 fit and mesh, and 1/2 previous owner's assembly. The fit I will work out by shaving the bearing shoulders, and just letting the thing wear in.

The previous owner problem is no big deal but annoying. The front input shaft was scratched up. The bearing was forced onto it, apparently damaging the race. Both parts need replacement. Grrr....


----------



## Dan the Man

Before everyone goes over to the swap forum to see what @#$%er I got the car from, I should say that other than that problem, the car is in great shape. No stripped threads that I've discovered - amazing considering the number of 1/2" 4-40 bolts into plastic on this car. I can't find any scratches on the body that would indicate it's been on its lid. (I could argue with the color...  ) Not a bad deal at all for the price I paid.


----------



## NHRCRACER

I have a Racer kit that I'm using on carpet right now. I use the suggested setup in the manual for this type of racing surface and overall it works pretty well, however it does seem to lean too much. I have anti-roll bars front and rear. Also, sometimes the car will just hook in a corner. What should I try?


----------



## rayhuang

> I use the suggested setup in the manual for this type of racing surface and overall it works pretty well, however it does seem to lean too much.


Let us know more info please!! Is it stock or mod, Foam tires or rubber tires. Size of track and general layout (open, fast, super tight and technical). We can help better with more info!!!


----------



## NHRCRACER

I'm using a stock motor and foam tires. The track out has two big sweepers and an easy infield. Overall, the track is fast and all of the corners are taken pretty fast.


----------



## Rich Chang

I don't have the TC3 manual anymore. What is the settings on your car?

Anyways, the spinning out can be caused by your front end might be too soft. Or, your droop settings could use some adjustment.

But, most likely you are 3-wheeling through the turn.


----------



## NHRCRACER

I don't have my stuff right in front of me right now, but the car doesn't really spin out. It's more of a rapid jerk to the side during a turn than a slide and spin because the rear end lost traction.


----------



## rayhuang

A sudden jerk or slide in one direction could be a couple of things. Yes, it can be set-up, but it could also be tweak or broken/bent part and those are easy to check. If it only does that one-way (Only left turns) it is tweak or a bent hingepin, etc. If it does it both ways and car is not tweaked or broken, it is set-up and well help you there when we see your general set-up!!!


----------



## rowle1jt

Are you using tire compound on your foams? I would assume that you are, but running dry tires can give you erratic handling.
Jake


----------



## NHRCRACER

I use traction compound on the whole rears and the inside edge of each plaid front. I use purples or double purples in the back.

My general setup for carpet:
white front springs and copper rears
All shocks are mounted in the middle holes
sway bars front and rear
inner-lower front camber link
outside hole on rear hub for camber link w/ inside-upper hole on tower


----------



## rowle1jt

Quick question for you guys that have been running foams on carpet: I have my TC3 _dialed_ for carpet, setup is spot-on and I couldn't be happier with the way it is driving, my question is this: I need to put my new foams on it pretty soon, I have a purple and a plaid, (Jaco) and don't remember which one goes on front and which one goes on rear...  

I feel like such a dork, I should know this..... 
Thanks
Jake


----------



## rowle1jt

I want to say instead of copper that I am running either purple or red, I think they are purple. Also I don't use a roll bar, and I get very little body roll.

After reading your last post, I would agree with Rich, something is either bent or it is binding somewhere in the suspension. Your running good tires, and they aren't dry, if the setup is close than something must be binding/broken.
Jake


----------



## DaWrench

Jake:

Hi,

Plaids go on the front and Purples on the rear.

Thanks


----------



## rowle1jt

Thanks, I appreciate it. Sometimes school gets the best of memory... 
Jake


----------



## rowle1jt

Another quick question, I have heard of people running their drivetrain w/ a drill to break it in. Mine is broken in by far, but how do people attache the drill to the car? Have any of you guys ever done this?
Thanks
Jake


----------



## DaWrench

Jake:

Hi,
I will use a drill to help run the diffs in. I have never used a drill on my TC3 to break in the drivetrain. one possible way is to mount a cut CVD or dog bone in the drill and go from there. I have done this on my trucks and buggies.


----------



## Dan the Man

Watched "Event Horizon" tonight. The ship design made me think of the TC3.


----------



## EvaderKiller

*Where to practice?*

Hey, I have had my TC3 for a little while but have yet to get into racing. Although, I am getting more interested I would like to improve my driving skills. Do you have any suggestions where I could go and how to set the area up? I buddy at work, and I picked up our TC3's about the same time and are wanting to find some way to practice. Your suggestions are welcomed.


----------



## storm

try too use double purple front and purple back spring white front with 80wt shock oil and in the back spring purple 70wt shock oil


----------



## rowle1jt

Thanks guys! 

Evaderkiller: All I do is find a good parking lot that is sssmmmooootttthhhhh and fairly clean. I will use joints/seams/surface irregularities to set up a "track" in my head. I find for me that it works really well, especailly when I tap a wall, I keep right on going.  I wondered how much it would help me, after my first carpet race of the year I found out.  Even though it may sound like just playing, it really did help me. 
Jake


----------



## NHRCRACER

Evaderkiller,
Set up a simple oval course, at first. Grab four, empty 2-liter soda bottles and take the labels off and fill them a little less than halfway with sand. Use these to set up an oval course for you and your friend to run on. Run races against each other both clockwise and counterclockwise. When you want a break from that, use the four bottles to set up a slalom course. Stand at one end and get used to driving a car going away from you and coming at you. All of this is fun and really good practice.


----------



## EvaderKiller

*Driving drills*

Thanks for the advice!:thumbsup:


----------



## EvaderKiller

*Driving drill addition*

Something I have tried that seems to work pretty well is using disc golf disc's, I go to a tennis court and setup a course using the two tennis net post, come in about five feet and down about the same from each end with two more disc's, and then finally a single disc about the first line away from the net but parallel. Using this course I have tried to work on getting a line through the corners, but I'm a little nervous around the net posts. 

Plus, does anyone know where would be a good area to practice in doors during the bad whether


----------



## TimTC3

*Shocks not Holding Pressure*

Hi All,

I have been having a problem with my threaded shocks not holding the pressure from the oil. I rebuilt them using the rebuild kit and the same problem happen. It might be possible that it is leaking through the red o-rings because I do see some dirt located there but I don't understand how could this be? Any advice would be great.

Thanks,
Tim


----------



## NTC3NUT

*TC3 Set-Up*

I need some help. I'm trying to find a set-up from last years 2001 Cleveland Indoor race for the TC3. I was told a local guy won Stock last year with a TC3 and a killer set-up, but I can't find anything on last years race, only the 2000 set-ups. Was his name Durling? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.


----------



## patcollins

Tim maybe your shafts are worn out allowing the oil to flow through


----------



## azbusa

What do they mean by locking the front diff? I assume it is to bottom the spring out totally. Is this correct?


----------



## patcollins

Not exactly, even if you bottom the spring out you can still get diff action. Locking the diff keeps outdrives on both sides "locked" together.


----------



## azbusa

So, how do you lock the front diff?


----------



## Dan the Man

Remove the diff balls, add some plastic shims to keep it the right width, and superglue it together. If this seems too drastic to you, Dragon R/C sells a "spool" that replaces the whole front diff with a single part. Associated makes one for the Nitro TC3 but I don't think it'll fit the electric car - anyone know better?

There was a huge thread on locked front diffs on Trinity Tech Talk. They delete stuff, but it's still up for now. See if this link works...
http://techtalk.teamtrinity.com/tt/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2268


----------



## DaWrench

TC3Nut:

Hi,

you might try to get Rich Chang to help you out. I know that they roomed together.if you want I'll post the setup we ran.

Thanks


----------



## NTC3NUT

DaWrench,
I would really appreciate it if you'd post your set-up. This is my first real season indoors, and any help would be great.
Thanks!


----------



## DaWrench

TC3Nut:

Hi,

Here is my Cleveland setup from 2001 (stock)

Front:

Springs: White
Oil: 80 wt Assoc
Pistons: #2's
Shock mounts: middle hole on the shock tower
Camber Links: Lower inner on the shock tower
Castor Blocks: 4 degrees/2degrees front kick up
Diffs: RRP Alumium diffs.
CVD's: shinys/Shuemaker blades
Camber: -2 degrees
Sway bar: stock Assoc
Tires: Jaco Purple/Orange

Rear:

Springs: Red
Oil: 40 wt Assoc
Pistons: #2's
Shock mounts: middle hole on the shock tower
Camber Links: upper inner on shock tower/ outer hole on the hub carrier
Front "rear" block: stock kit
Rear "rear" block: R+2+0
Wheelbase: Middle
Tire: Jaco Purple
Diff; RRP alumium
CVD's: plastic/Blades
Camber: -1.5 degrees.

Chassis: graphite
Arms: same

Motor: handout

Tire additive: Paragom (Black/Purple can)
Tire size: started out at 2.200 and went up or down as needed for rollout.

Body: ProtoForm Stratus/standard wing
Droop: this was adjusted according to the track
Ride Hieght: 3mm to 4.5 mm
oneway: no oneways after the first controlled practice.


any other questions please feel free to e-mail me.

Thanks

DaWrench


----------



## NTC3NUT

Thanks for the info! I'm sure this will come in handy. I'll drop you guys a note if I can make it to Cleveland.


----------



## TimTC3

Pat,

I looked over the shocks today and did not see anything wrong with the shafts. Maybe the problem I am having is not really a problem. What happens is when I build my shocks I get complete rebound to the full extent of the shaft. I then mount the shocks and after a day of racing I check them out to find out that they only partially rebound. The rebound level seems to be close to the length of the shock when the correct ride height is set. Is this the normal behavior? I am expecting that the shocks will continue to fully rebound all the time or least for a few weeks if not more. BTW I am using unobtanium shafts, are these smaller then the standard shafts and therefore the o-ring is not that tight.

-Tim



patcollins said:


> *Tim maybe your shafts are worn out allowing the oil to flow through *


----------



## Guest

*RTR TC3 wont accelerate top speed gone*

Hi Guys,
Just bought a elect RTR TC3 2 weeks ago. I like the car. It was fast. A few days later something went wrong the car won't accelerate and top speed was gone. I used a 2400mah and the funny thing is I only use a wall type charger (for Nikko toy RC) to charge the battery. Here's what happened, after charging yesterday I even checked with a tester to find out if its fully charge, with a tester reading says 7.2v so I assumed its fully charged, But when I ran the car it won't accelerate in less than 5 mins, it looks like its running out of charge already and it goes very slow. When I turn the steering left and right the car could hardly move too. When in staight line it go forward but motion is slow. I'm a newbie and not as expert as you guys. I hope you can help me. Is it the battery? ESC? radio? Every thing looks OK to me except for the charger which I'm not very confident at. I'm just wondering why it worked the first few days where I ran the car in top speed. I used the same charger. I hope you can help me. Looking forward to your comments.


----------



## Dan the Man

Almost certainly a battery issue.

Was the wall charger the right voltage? If you have one for a 9.6V pack you might do some damage if you let it overcharge. Are you sure it got a full charge? Wall warts usually say on them what the rate is; if it says 500 mA, it needs about 5 hours to charge.


----------



## rowle1jt

Yeah it is the battery. If it said 7.2 volts it wasn't charged all the way. My Turbo30 shows over 9.0 volts when a battery peaks, the charger your using either has a problem, isn't the correct charger (ie 9.6..) or you need to let is charge longer. With a 2400 you should get 6-8 minutes of run time *IF* it is fully charged.

Congrats on purchasing the best Touring Car money can buy.... 
Jake


----------



## Guest

*shocks spring*

is the size of springs in TC3 universal? i plan to change
to softer ones since i run it on a bumpy track.
my problem is i live in the philippines and there are no
associated parts here. however, there are other brands like
tamiya and kyosho for substitute. please advise


----------



## davepull

*shock location ?*

what does moving the shocks in the upper holes do? 

how can I get more on power steering?


----------



## Guest

*How to proctect pinion gear fo TC3?*

I noticed that after running, tiny rocks gets inside the teeth of the pinion gears. At times, it will create a different sound when the car accelerates. This may damage the gears and may result to early replacement. Is there a way to prevent this? Is it possible to cover it for protection?


----------



## davepull

just clean off the chassis and put a piece of tape over the spur gear hole


----------



## DaWrench

Edmar:

I'm not to sure about the Tamiya springs. I think they will fit. the Kyosho springs fit. so do the HPI springs. 

Good Luck

Davepull:

Hi,

moving the shocks in at the top will soften up the suspension. moving out will firm up the suspension.

"how can I get more steering"

well, do you want more going into corner or coming out of the corner???
coming out of a corner you can gain steering by changing the "C" carriers to either 2 degrees or 4 degrees. with the "F-2 block you will end up with a total of 4 degrees with the 2 degree"C" carrier and a total of 6 degrees with the 4 degree "C" carrier. if you are running on carpet you can take the front "F" block and install it in place of the rear "R" block. this will remove some of the rear toe-in. (depending on what rear back block you are running). this seems to ba a easy way to do this. also you can switch to the Losi rear hub carriers. by switching the right for the left you can take toe-in out too.
push when entering a corner:

if you are running foams try a Purple/Orange compound on the front. also a LITTLE toe-out will help the car enter the turn quicker (at the cost of the car tracking straighter on the longer shutes and a more responsive car to small steering input.
also you can move the shocks in a hole on the front shock tower. this will give the car a feeling of a softer setting on the front.
as a last resort I will move the inner camber link mount on the shock tower. by moving it in and down you are allowing the front tires to use a slightly larger contact patch. this can also be done with adding more negative camber. (no more than -2 degrees).
also you can stiffen up the rear suspension some. in effect taking rear traction away from the rear. this wiil help the car to rotate better when entering a corner.

Please try ONE change at a time. keep going until we are happpy with the turn-in.

One other thing you can try is a different body. the ProtoForm 4door Honda will give you better turn in on most tracks same with the Alfa 164 body.

hope this helps.


----------



## Guest

*What types of gears to be used in TC3?*

I've heard there are different types of spur gear and pinion gear to be used depending on the type of tracks you will use. Can you give me the gears that would match the following tracks:
- more curves less straight line
- less curves and many long straight lines


----------



## DaWrench

Edmar:

Hi,

at this time we are running a 100 tooth 64 pitch spur gear on all of our TC3's. a rule of thumb is a bigger spur will give you more "pull" of a corner. and a smaller spur will give more straight-away speed. I will gear with the pinion for each track. if i go to a smaller spur gear it is most always a 96 tooth gear. as we are running foam tires I try to stay as close as I can to a given rollout. like this past weekend I ended up gearig my GM3's around a 1.04 rollout on a track the we were running low 11 second laps (gear was a 100/36) on larger tracks you would want to add gear to the motor but not so much that your car will feel doggy in the infield. 
for rubber tires you would gear for a tire size and make minior adjustments from there. talk to the fast guys at your track. see what they are running for a gear ratio and figure out the rollout.

take the spur gear (100) devide by the pinion (36) times the overall ratio of your car (TC3=2.5) = 6.944. take the tire Dia (2.3") times Pi (3.14) = 7.22 then devide by the overall ratio from your car (6.944) = a 1.04 rollout. when using a metric system you will get a truer rollout in mm. (just replace all dia reading here with a mm reading)

hope this helps.


----------



## Guest

DaWrench said:


> *Edmar:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> at this time we are running a 100 tooth 64 pitch spur gear on all of our TC3's. a rule of thumb is a bigger spur will give you more "pull" of a corner. and a smaller spur will give more straight-away speed. I will gear with the pinion for each track. if i go to a smaller spur gear it is most always a 96 tooth gear. as we are running foam tires I try to stay as close as I can to a given rollout. like this past weekend I ended up gearig my GM3's around a 1.04 rollout on a track the we were running low 11 second laps (gear was a 100/36) on larger tracks you would want to add gear to the motor but not so much that your car will feel doggy in the infield.
> for rubber tires you would gear for a tire size and make minior adjustments from there. talk to the fast guys at your track. see what they are running for a gear ratio and figure out the rollout.
> 
> take the spur gear (100) devide by the pinion (36) times the overall ratio of your car (TC3=2.5) = 6.944. take the tire Dia (2.3") times Pi (3.14) = 7.22 then devide by the overall ratio from your car (6.944) = a 1.04 rollout. when using a metric system you will get a truer rollout in mm. (just replace all dia reading here with a mm reading)
> 
> hope this helps. *


I really appreciate your comments, many thanks for your help.
:wave:


----------



## ghoulardi

Does anyone know where I can get the hollow plastic ends for the ball fittings on the sway bars? I've been drilling standard ball ends out but they dont hold up too well. Hate to buy a new swaybar set when all ineed is a lousy 5 cent part!


Thanx


----------



## NTC3NUT

Associated has a part number for the plastic parts, and a part number for the aluminum parts for the sway bar links. I would give them to you but they're in my pit box at the track! If no one gives them to you first, I'll post them here ASAP.


----------



## Mackin

ghoulardi, Did you check with Bud? 440 284-0270.

chuck


----------



## DaWrench

Hi Chuck,

we are getting ready for Cleveland.... so far Jason's been doing great. he can't wait for it.

hope to see you there!!!!! and at QSL too!


Thanks

Ghoulardi:

Hi,

you'll need part #8828 for the plactic parts and the set screw.

hope this helps.

Thanks


----------



## Guest

*Ackerman Steering Assembly*

Has anyone run into any issues with the brass bushings that are in the steering assembly on the TC3? Mine seem to wear out pretty quickly and then the brass rubs off onto the inside of the steering bracket that slides back and forth. This causes the steering to be very rough. Just wondered if you can replace those brass bushings with ball bearings or anything else? It seems if I lubricate the area, more dirt gets attracted. Let me know you thoughts. 
Thanks,
CRJ


----------



## rayhuang

CRJ, I have not had that problem, but I do try and clean the steering rack with a Q-tip and solvent every race day. And actually remove the entire rack and give it a solid cleaning every month. It should be more often than that-but I am too lazy!!!

If I know it has time to dry before racing, I will lubricate the bushings with Zubak Lube because it drioes to a film and doesnt attract dust, but is very slippery.

Yes-you can get ballbearing steering, but its no better.

Ray


----------



## walterhenderson

tc3 ballbearings for the steering rack-Associated #3971


----------



## Mackin

Walter, you all ready for the champs? See you in a couple of weeks. 

chuck


----------



## walterhenderson

Hi Chuck, Hows it going? I feel more ready than ever! With any luck maybe some good results. See ya in a few, Walter


----------



## Guest

*Motor upgrade*

I want to upgrade my RTR TC3 motor. It has a stock motor 19 turn and ESC is LRP runner. I think the ESC can handle up to 12 turn. Need your expertise on what to buy. Thanks.


----------



## NTC3NUT

I'm not sure how low the LRP Runner will allow you to go, 12 turns sounds a little low, but your LRP manual should tell you. You could easily upgrade to a good "stock" motor, or a 19 turn, and see a noticable differance in performance.


----------



## rowle1jt

I would go with a 19 turn. They are pretty cheap and will give you a whole LOT more speed, I think the 12 turn is WAY TOO MUCH for your ESC. 
Jake


----------



## EvaderKiller

*LRP Runner speed control*

I have just returned from the TeamAssoicated page and looked up the motor rating for the Runner Plus speed control, and they give the Runner Plus a motor rating of 18-36 turns.

Hope this helps,

EK


----------



## Dan the Man

Where do you find a 36-turn motor?


----------



## EvaderKiller

*Motor*

Dan, I have not idea where you find a 36 turn motor but that is what is on the LRP page.

EK


----------



## harley

I was wondering someone could help me out....


I would like to know if anyone has any input on the new A-arms far as setup concerns. I looking for a carpet with foam tire setup with these new arms and even one with the rear shock tower on the front. One last question...has anyone used the IRS solid front axle on carpet with foam tires? I have seen setups for rubber tires but nothing yet with foams. Any help you be greatfull.


----------



## UrboTurbo

I've noticed many people at our local track do not take advantage of the new position, most of the better drivers say it can rub our tires on full r/l turn (w/ losi front knuckes, theres more throw).


----------



## NTC3NUT

If you don't adjust your radio settings the inner wheel will rub on the lower shock mount screw. My first time out on the track they actually backed out a little. All it takes is a minor endpoint adjustment and it's ok. You will not be able to get a full lock though, so you may have a little slop if your servos not tough enough.


----------



## RoadBuggy

*Trinity alum corner braces for TC3*

does anyone have pictures of the blue anodized aluminum front and rear braces for the TC3 chassis? I can't seem to find a picture from the manufacturer's website or other suppliers. Does is resemble the stock braces on the team kit?

I am building an eye-candy TC3 showcar and I want to see them before buying. No LHS where I come from.

Thanks in advance.

:hat:


----------



## walterhenderson

I use the new outer arm location on the front arms,but i do a few things to get turning radius. 1st put a short black ballstud in the outer hole,cut the t3 tierod ends(7230) to length(.625")install on the shock ends reinstall shocks.I also narrow up the front tires to 1.05" taking off about .06" then adjust radio throw accordingly.

I also run the rear shock tower in the front,in the middle hole.

Hope this helps,Walter Henderson


----------



## UrboTurbo

Walter- What about the rest of your set-up? That set up doesn't work for all spring/oil combinations.:thumbsup:


----------



## walterhenderson

front
70wt oil
#2 pistons
white springs
outer hole on arm, middle hole on rear shock
standard sway bar
losi steering blocks/6*castor blocks
inner lower camber link
f-2 block
5.5 droop

rear
60wt oil
#2 pistons
purple springs
outer hole on arm middle hole on tower
standard sway bar
2* toe
inner lower camber link
4.5 droop


battery foward
protoform stratus 2.0
jaco purple rear 2.24"
jaco purple/orange front 2.24"
chassis cut to move batteries next to drive shaft

walter


----------



## SecretSquirrel

I found these Aluminum braces by Megatech

SS


----------



## team green

*1 way diff*

I'm wondering what are the Pro's and Con's to running a 1 way diff up front verses the standard diff. We run on a tight carpet track with rubber tires.
Thanks,
Team Green


----------



## Dan the Man

A oneway makes your car act like a 2wd when you're off power or braking. So it gives a lot more steering when you get off the throttle, but reduces your overall braking power.


----------



## Tommygun43

*Starting set up for Ozite and foam tires.*

Hey guys, 

I was quite unhappy with how my car handled the last race so I've decided to go through it completely. Could you guys recommend a
starting set up for Ozite and foam tires? I currently run white springs in front, purple in back, with double purple or purple/orange
front tires and purple rear tires. That should be good other than 
that I would like some help with. 

A couple questions, I read about putting the rear shock tower on the
front if I read it correctly. Should I do this...is it what the
fast guys are doing? 

Secondly...droop, I'm pretty confused on this. I have an older TC3 I guess. I bought it about a year and a half ago. I have the team kit. Do I not have droop adjustment on my chassis? Is changing the 
washers inside the shocks how I adjust droop without the newer chassis?

-Tom


----------



## badmojo13

has anyone tried out the new alfa body from losi and what do you think of it


----------



## lastplace

Trinity sells the blue blocks and other blue trim pieces.


----------



## DaWrench

Tommygun43:

pleae read Walter Henderson's post above. this is a great place to start. about the only I have changed from Walt's setup is I will use either the Copper or Red springs on the rear. and I went to the outside holes on the rear shock tower.

Thanks


----------



## Tommygun43

I was thinking that was a asphalt set up for some reason. Guess
that happens after reading 15 pages of posts! I don't understand
this..."losi steering blocks/6*castor blocks". 6 degree Losi 
caster blocks?

Tom


----------



## UrboTurbo

4 Degree Caster blocks and 2 degree knuckles equals 6 degrees!


----------



## Rich Chang

Losi makes 6 degree caster blocks. So, with the 2 degree kick-up block, Walt was running a total of 8 degrees caster.


----------



## Tommygun43

Thanks guys. 

I think I just realized when using the new A-arms with the droop holes, I'm supposed to remove the thin washers inside the shocks? Am I correct? Bummer got to take all the shocks apart again?

-Tom


----------



## Bodido

Tommygun... Yes they serve the same function. Droop screws make life sooo much easier than internal limiters. Especially with foams!


----------



## RoadBuggy

*What improvements would you like to see on the TC3?*

I would like a more dirt-proof steering rack and a cool cover for the spur gear. 

hey guys at Associated, are you listening?


----------



## UrboTurbo

A lot of team drivers and other are milling out the area around the steering rack. Then drilling the appropriate holes to use the Nitro TC3 steering arms. I almost think that that will be a new item on there revised car, if they ever come out with one!


----------



## Bodido

I'm getting ready to start a new season on carpet. It's a new track that's perfectly smooth, with brand new ozite. I've never actually raced on ozite carpet, just something simular with more bite I believe. Is the traction of new ozite considerably less, before the groove comes in? How should I change my setup to compensate, if at all? 

Front:

rear tower shimmed up 3/16" (don't have new arms yet)
front spool
inner lower camber link
4 degree castor blocks
f-2 block
standard swaybar

Rear: 

inner lower camber link
2 degrees toe in
standard swaybar

I need to build shocks still, they're still setup for pavement. I was thinking of 70wt and 60wt with 2's like Walt's setup above. Was planning to use whites and purples also. I'll play with positioning at the track. 

What about tires? I ask mainly because it's new carpet. Should I run something on the softer side front and rear until the groove comes in? I'm thinking it'll take a few weeks, since there is only club racing with a relatively small turnout. I'll either run Jacos or Mugens. I won't be buying TRCs any more. They're just poor quality, imho. 

Also.... This is for stock on a tight track. Paragon is allowed.


----------



## rayhuang

*Milled chassis????*

Is anyone willing to pay top dollar for a CNC milled TC3 Graphite chassis? It costs a lot of money to do them on a mill (Cheap with a dremel-but looks HACK!!!).

If anybody thinks so, I might be able to have four or five of them made in the next couple of weeks. I dont know a price, but it wouldnt be real cheap.

Chassis would have the battery moved inboard and CG of batteries lowered. Some more minor machining as well to lighten and balance the chassis so you can run GP3300's and make the ROAR 50oz. limit.


I am going to take a chassis to the machine shop tomorrow and see what it costs to do a small run of them.

Ray


----------



## Bodido

Rayhuang:

I was going to have my brother do the same thing for me. What kind money are you talking.... Just curious. My brother wouldn't be allowed to do any for profit, but he can do a couple for me and friends. Thinking of dropping the servo down as well. It seems it would give a more linear response due to the servo arm angle relative to the rack. What do you think?


----------



## rayhuang

Bodido,

I'll have an exact $$$ number tomorrow!!! I really doubt it will be a price anybody would be willing to pay!!! You know-it would go like this:

"Hey-make me one!!!" 

"Whats it cost??" 

"WHHHAAATTTTT????"  

"Forget-it-I'll make mine with a dremel!!!!". 


I think you hit it on the head-If you have a buddy that'll make you one for free-great-if not-break out the dremel!!!
But-I thought I'd throw the idea out there!!! I mean-100's of people buy a Losi XXXS kit and turn right around and buy a new Graphite chassis right away!!! Why not a TC3!!!

Ray


----------



## Guest

Bodido - 

check out the suggested starting Carpet set up in the TC3 tuning guide. Ive been driving with it for some weeks and it works very well. This set up allowed me to take pole and win a C main 2 weeks ago. Led from the pole and by the time the race ended I was one lap up on the 2nd place driver. 

Very neutral handling with a slight touch of understeer.

At my track, relatively new ozite (about 2 months old) Im using 26-28mm wide double purples or plaids in front and purples in the rear.


----------



## Bodido

My brother has done lots of cool work for me in the past. If I were to charge, it would be something like this:

me=free
slow friend= $40
fast friend= $60
aquaintence who has potential to beat me= $200

HAHA


----------



## NTC3NUT

rayhuang, 
You can do a good job with a Dremel if you take the time (I know alot of guys don't). I have a machine shop where I work with a few lathes, and one of our better millwrights offered to do the work for me for free, I just wanted to do it myself. Not to mention the fact that I was a little afraid to give him my brand new graphite chassis and have it come back worse than what I could have done (He's a good millwright, but it's not everyday that he works on RC cars, know what I mean?). I like the thought of having a car that I practically hand built, makes me feel a little less like "every body & their brother".


----------



## Tommygun43

I don't see a ride height in Walt's setup? What ride
height should I start with? (Ozite with foams).

-Tom


----------



## rowle1jt

When I run carpet, if it is smooth I slam the car as low as I can legally go. I also use VERY small tires, but it has worked for me. What do you the rest of you guys run for ride height on carpet? If the carpet's bumpy, then you can see this won't always work.
Jake


----------



## NTC3NUT

I tried running mine at 2mm last time out, with 58mm tires, and believe it or not it handled great. I normally run 60mm tires with 4mm ride height. When I ran the 58mm tires at 4mm ride height it handled like crap. Learn something new each day.


----------



## Rich Chang

Did you adjust your ride height by adjusting shock preload and not adjust your droop settings accordingly?

If so, that is why the handling changed. By adjusting ride height and not your droop settings at the same time, you are changing the amount of uptravel.

-Rich


----------



## rowle1jt

I use the droop screws. 
Jake


----------



## NTC3NUT

Yes, That was my problem. This is my first season indoors, I thought that once you set the droop it stays set. What would you guys do in this situation:

Normal-6mm droop setting, 4mm ride height, 60mm tires, all set on Hudy gauges

New- (?)mm droop setting, 4mm ride height, 58mm tires, same gauges

I still get a little confused on the droop. I would think that I would go to a lower number on the gauge, thereby increasing the actual amount of droop??? I could use the help, I have a box of 57 & 58mm tires that I would love to keep using. Thanks.


----------



## rowle1jt

I don't remember what the measurement on my droop guage was.  I do know that the front and rear of mine is set the same, with the top of the droop screws even with the top of the arm. I know, I know, not the right way measure droop.....but the setup works for me. Before I change anything I will measure it and write it down. 
Jake


----------



## Rich Chang

When setting my uptravel (I call it "lift") I measure how much the chassis moves up from race ride height. I don't use the droop gauge to set my car to a specific number. 

So, to try and explain this, I use my ride height gauge and set my front and rear ride heights using the shock collars. I check ride height by pressing down on the chassis so that the car is at race ride height. So, let's say I set the ride height at 4mm front and rear (ie: level chassis).

Once the ride height is set, I now go on to set my 'lift.' This is measured by how much the chassis lifts up from race ride height until either the droop screws bottom out, or the tires come off the table. For me, on foam tires on high traction carpet, I typically set the 'lift' to be 2mm front and rear. 

So, using the ride height gauge, when the car is at ride height the gauge reads 4mm. When I pull up the chassis at the rear shock tower until the droop screws bottom out, the ride height gauge will now read 6mm. Same goes for the front.

Anyways, once I have my 'lift' set front and rear, I'll then pull the wheels off the car, and then use the droop gauge to make sure the setting is the same left to right.

If you change your ride height after this, then you need to go through this whole process again.

Hope that helps!
-Rich


----------



## rayhuang

Rich-again-we think exactly the same!!! The only difference is I run a little more "lift" in back than the front as I feel it makes car a little more forgiving when you drive as poorly as I do!!!!


----------



## NTC3NUT

That actually helps alot. I have heard it explained what seams like 100 times, and that has got to be about the simplest way yet. I am learning that hard & fast numbers "by the gauge" are not always the last word. Now where did I leave that Oh so expensive Hudy equipment.....


----------



## Bodido

Rich's way is the only way to do it on foams.


----------



## walterhenderson

Tom, The setup posted is with 4mm ride height front and rear. that way you can run a few runs without changing anything. Don't go lower than 3 mm, you will drag the chassis edges in the turns. Walter


----------



## Tommygun43

The chassis should be level without having to adjust the 
shock collars differently side to side right? Mine isn't.
Does it make THAT much of a difference moving the battery
over? My car was 100 times better today though. Thanks
guys!

Tom


----------



## walterhenderson

if everything is right you should only have .0020 to .0030 diff. side to side on the shocks. To me moving the battery in was a big improvement. Walter


----------



## TRL

HI walter 

Iwas just wondering if the set-up you posted is what you used in cleveland?

thanks:thumbsup:


----------



## walterhenderson

very very close to what i ran!


----------



## rayhuang

Walter, 

My buddy is making me a bunch of narrowed/lightened chassis on his Bridgeport in about a week. I am waiting on delivery of a bunch of new chassis'. We are going back and forth on if we should make the slot 0.125" or 0.20" wider. 0.125' wider is very easy and allows you to keep a lot of the center rib. 0.20" wider slots means you have to take the triangulation out of the center rib by milling a good portion of it out.

PLease-your thoughts on if 1/8" is enough to feel a big difference-or if you need to move batteries into center line to feel a difference!!!

Thanks,
Ray


----------



## walterhenderson

Ray, of the few i have done the more you move them in the better 
the handling. currently i am running the batteries as close as possible to the driveshaft.The wires are on the outer side, otherwise they would rub the driveshaft. I think i went .300" over. Walter


----------



## rayhuang

Walter,

Thanks!!! I appreciate your opinion on this!! Now-I just hope theres a market for them!! If not-at least I'll have a Kick--s ride!!!

Ray


----------



## Aaron Bomia

You're my hero Walt!!!



walterhenderson said:


> *Ray, of the few i have done the more you move them in the better
> the handling. currently i am running the batteries as close as possible to the driveshaft.The wires are on the outer side, otherwise they would rub the driveshaft. I think i went .300" over. Walter *


----------



## walterhenderson

Hey Aaron- i should be hehehehe


----------



## spaz456

walter, since you have your center rib milled do you run a top brace now. also do you think one will really be needed in stock or would it only be beneficial in mod?


----------



## walterhenderson

No i don't run a top plate. I don't feel it is needed.The chassis 
does not flex enough to me in my opinion. Walter


----------



## Micro_Racer

What servo do you guys run?


----------



## NTC3NUT

S9450 Futaba


----------



## rowle1jt

Good 'ol Futaba S3003. Yep, a standard servo. It works for me, a better servo wouldn't make me a better/faster driver at this point.
Jake


----------



## Guest

rayhuang said:


> *Walter,
> 
> Thanks!!! I appreciate your opinion on this!! Now-I just hope theres a market for them!! If not-at least I'll have a Kick--s ride!!!
> 
> Ray *


do you have a cost estimate yet Ray?


----------



## rayhuang

jake-I think, from past expereince if you went up to a 0.10 sec to 60 and 80 Oz. servoyour driving would get much btter first time out!! trust me-I learned the hard way on that!!!

Patelladragger-here on HObbytalk!!! Sweeetttt!!!! The labor is $40.00 plus the chassis. I should be getting my first lot of 4 or 5 donr next week (~~12/20 or 12/ 24 at the latest!) . Depends on how slammed the machine shop gets next week!!!


----------



## rowle1jt

So what Hitec fits the bill? LoL I can't (shall I say _won't_) afford a Futaba or Airtronics. You may be right and if you say it helps I am willing to give it a try, but I don't want to spend $100 on a servo. 
Thanks
Jake


----------



## SecretSquirrel

I would recommend the HS-5625MG (.17 sec/60°). It is their High Speed Digital servo and is right now on Tower Hobbies for $54.99. They make an Ultra High Speed (.10 sec/60°) for 89.99, but at that point you should get a JR.

SS


----------



## NTC3NUT

Check Ebay, the guys in Cali, or even from overseas, are selling brand new in the package $135 Futabas for $79. You cannot beat that price anywhere for a servo that good.


----------



## DaWrench

Hi,

Jake:

See me next Sunday at Nick's track. I'll bring a servo out of one of my rally cars or you to try. it's a HiTec something....never really looked at it but it works great,

Ray:

are you going to post pics of your chassis???? you got me interested. I have been banned from the tool room at my shop for doing chassis after work  

Servos:

We are running the JR 8714, 8450, and the 9450 in all of our sedans. gave up on Airtronics servos.

NTC3NUT:

Did you ever make it to Cleveland???????

we had a bad weekend. my son only got one round in as he was sick all weekend long.


----------



## rowle1jt

> _Originally posted by DaWrench _*Hi, Jake:
> See me next Sunday at Nick's track. I'll bring a servo out of one of my rally cars or you to try. it's a HiTec something....never really looked at it but it works great. *


 Thanks for the offer, but I doubt that I will be able to make it down to Lansing on sunday. I'll be there if x-mas shopping is done, wrapped, no family stuff, etc....... you get the idea.  If I can make it I would love to be able to try it out. I really appreciate your offer, BTW, do I know you? 
Jake


----------



## NTC3NUT

DaWrench,
No, I never made it. The wife and all the kids (4) where sick that entire week, we almost had to cancel Thanksgiving! I just got back from the Toledo CRL race though, had a great time!


----------



## DaWrench

NTC3NUT:

Hi,

we didn't make the Toledo CRL race. I had to work and I also caught a lung infection. so I haven't done anything in the way of racing. still I hope to make at least one trip to Toledo this season (indoors)

Thanks


----------



## DaWrench

Jake:

Hi,

if you have been to Nick's track on Sundays I'm the guy to wrenchs on his son's TC3. he's 13 (oops 14 now) usally in the A. runs a white 2.0 stratus. he has a 3pk. if you make it there on Sunday just ask for Jason

Thanks


----------



## bigmooseracer

OK gang, it has happened again this last weekend....

I watch the Nitro TC3 guys bounce off every pipe, every other car, and a few turn marshals on the track for 10 minutes with no damage. Then I go out with my electric, try to shave a corner a little tight and a light tap on the pipe breaks an arm and a steering block. I noticed there has been talk about using NTC3 steering on the electric, but how about the arms, carriers, blocks, etc, has anyone tried this yet?


----------



## rayhuang

Bigmooseracer, you should look into the delrin (nylotron-(sp?)) arms that are being produced for Mike Dumas. They are precision machined arms-not injection molded-out of a really tough, but light material. nearly indestructible. You can get front and rear arms, steering knuckles (which also have more thrwo and even steering right and left) and rear hub that have more locations to attach camber link to.

They are super nice!!

You can e-mail me for how to get-them.

Ray


----------



## Tommygun43

*chassis*

I think I may have a tweaked chassis. If I set my shocks
up equal side to side and get everything squared up the
car is very loose in left hand turns and pushes in right
turns. I ended up adjusting the LR and RF shocks WAY down. 
I was wondering if anyone knew of cases like this 
and what the problem was. I have a new chassis but won't
be able to try it for a couple weeks. I do have the spring
for the motor clamp on also. Any advice would be great.

Also, when moving the battery to the centerline, how much
of the chassis is normally taken out where the drive shaft
mounts to the chassis next to the rear differential? It 
looks like to really move the battery over you have to take
out alot there?

-Tom


----------



## Tommygun43

HELP!


----------



## jammin jim

*Factory Tweaks*

I'm sure there are a few factory tweaks out there that people know about. I heard one of them was to grind the center support away a bit to move the batteries closer to the center. Are there any others? (ones that weren't already mentioned) There have been a few mentioned already that I will try.


----------



## walterhenderson

Tom,
The best way to check the chassis is a flat board or 
piece of glass.It is a pain but to do it wright you should
take the car apart.Put the chassis on the glass and then you will
know.If you haven't already, check all your hinge pins also.


----------



## Tommygun43

I checked the chassis and I don't think there is anything
wrong with it. I replaced it anyways because I bought
the graphite one. I'm baffled as to what is wrong, and
something MUST be wrong. I've went through everything.
Thought maybe I had a different piston in one of the shocks
but just checked and they are all the same. I was thinking
maybe moving the battery ahead would help, I think it will but
that can't be the problem because most people I see run them
there.  

Tom


----------



## Mackin

I know this may sound a little stupid, but check your tires. If you run purples and plaids, make sure you have both plaids on front. One time I had one of the plaids on the rear. I've seen it done more than once.

chuck


----------



## Rich Chang

Chuck -- I've done that! 

--------

Tom - like Walt suggested, check your hinge pins. That doesn't just mean disconnecting the shocks and seeing if the arms flop up and down freely. The arms can still flop freely even if the hinge pin is bent. You need to pull the front bumper off and pull the hinge pins out through the arm. If they are bent (usually at the point where they go into the F block) they will be hard to pull through the arm. 

Also, check to make sure your shocks are the same length left to right, and make sure your droop screw settings are equal left to right.


----------



## NTC3NUT

I'm sure you checked (having the shocks off already), but look at the upper & lower shock mount screws. I have bent these before, and they are hard to see unless you remove them to check.


----------



## mattgar99

i have a tc3 and a xxx-s . my xxx-s was the first sedan i bought. i noticed that the tc3 was very loud compared to my xxx-s it was loud enough to draw concern. i checked the diffs to make sure they were right and i checked the meshing on the motor/spur but none of that was the problem. and i was wondering if it could be all my bearings? i bought the kit new and unassembled. i thought that the noise could be from not oiling the bearing properly. Could that be the problem and if so how should i oil my bearings?


----------



## Rich Chang

If your transmission is free spinning then the noise should not be of too much concern. A belt transmission (re: XXX-S) will inherently be quieter than a gear based transmission (re: TC3).

The noise you are hearing is most likely the gears in the transmission cases. The gear mesh for those gears will also affect how loud the car is -- if it is too tight or too loose the gears will be loud (just like setting gear mesh on a 1/12th scale car). 

If the noise bothers you a lot you can always put a thin coat of very thin lube on the gears. Just realize that that adds some drag to the tranny.

-Rich


----------



## Tommygun43

Thanks for the suggestions everyone, I really appreciate it!
I think I found the problem...bent right rear hinge pin!
Makes sense if it was toed in more than normal (loose left, 
push right).

thanks again.

Happy Hollidays!

-Tom


----------



## walterhenderson

Glad you found your problem. If we can anwser anymore ?? just ask.
Walter


----------



## jammin jim

Hey Guys, are there any really good changes/tweaks/adjustments etc that guys are doing to their cars? Up here in Canada we don't get all the info as fast as you guys in the States do. If you can point me in the right direction I would appreciate it. Thanks.


----------



## Rich Chang

Most of the tweaks have been listed in this thread. So, break out the reading glasses and start perusing.


----------



## bigmooseracer

Ray,

Sending mail, thanks!


----------



## SecretSquirrel

I am thinking of putting the NTC3 steering setup in a new chassis. I am wondering if anyone still has the link to where pictures with measurements can be found. I know you have to drill some holes and I would like to get it right the first time.

I saw it on Hobby Talk, but cant find the post.

SS


----------



## NTC3NUT

Go here, 3rd & 4th post on this page. Hope this helps!

http://www.rctech.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29&perpage=30&pagenumber=104


----------



## SecretSquirrel

Thanks Nut.

SS


----------



## NTC3NUT

No problem, if you make it to Toledo I would be glad to let you take a look at my TC3. Just ask for Mike, I pit in the back.


----------



## DaWrench

NTC3NUT:

Hi,

have you ever thought about mouting your steering rack 180 degrees from where you have it now???? I have a chassis that I can mount it both ways and I really like it the other way. I will try to post a pic here or on the other thread soon

Thanks


----------



## NTC3NUT

Never tried it, post a pic & I'll check it out.


----------



## threeflys

*Servos*

What is the ultimate servo for touring car? I have a Futaba Fm radio.
Thanks


----------



## walterhenderson

I have had very good luck with the JR 8450 digital servo in my TC3. Walter


----------



## DaWrench

threefly:

Hi,

I run a JR 8714, 8450 in my sedans. also the 2143 from KO is a nice servo too. I am looking at the mew 9550 from Futaba.... most any digtail servo works great. for a nondigtail servo I will run a JR 4735/2750 servo. 


hope this helps


----------



## Bodido

Just to add to DaWrench's good list. Futaba's 9402 is about as good and fast a non-digital you can get. 111 in/oz's .10 to 60 degrees. If anything these specs are underated. The servo seems faster and stronger than other servos with better specs I've tried. I've been running mine for a year now in my TC3. Flawless.


----------



## Tommygun43

*Radio's*

What in your opinion is the best radio for
Touring Car? I am looking upgrade. I am 
considering the Hitec M8, JR R1 and Futaba.
Are there any other good ones and any opinions
as to was works well in TC? Also, what is 
it called where the first part of the steering
is slowed? Expo? Do the fast guys use it?
It seems like it would help.

I just got a 8450 servo and like it alot.

-Tom


----------



## Tim Stamper

I am sticking with my M8 now that the switch module is out. I just bought 2 xxtra recievers, so I should be set for a while. I like the feel of the new 3PK though.


My 3 year old 2143 KO still works strong. It has been in an e-maxx and a t-maxx also. This thing doesn't give up. I bought another one and I hope that the quality is still there.

Tim


----------



## Rich Chang

Here are all the radios I've used and some their pros and cons (my opinions). I've never tried the Futabas or Hitecs so I can't comment on them. However, I know Tim Exelby's son uses Futabas. He can comment on those.

btw: if you want to try the JR R1 (probably the most technologically advanced of all the radios out there) -- I have one for sale for $280 shipped.


1. JR R1

Pros: pretty balanced weight wise. if you want to adjust it, you can do it with this radio. I don't think anyone ever uses all the functions on this radio. 

Cons: expensive if purchased new ($399). Kinda big to lug around, but not unweildy.

2. Airtronics M8 - 

Pros: Probably the most commonly used radio out there - especially by the pros. Plenty of support (especially finding stuff used) and pricing is pretty good. Has nice steering and trigger feel and travel. Also, Novak has a synthesized transmitter module for ths radio which is GREAT -- no crystals -- especially if you use it in conjunction with the XXXtra synthesized receiver.

Cons: Top heavy. I had a hard time holding this radio upright for long periods of time, which is why I switched from this to the JR R1 (which is heavier, but better balanced).

3. KO Propo MARS R - What I am currently using. 

Pros: Compact and has a very nice steering and trigger feel. Very nicely balanced.

Cons: menu system is not very intuitive and is bit of a pain to navigate through. Chews through batteries. You can go fishing with the antenna (some might feel that should go under the "pros." haha) -- the antenna is super tall. You can't adjust the steering wheel spring tension.


4. Multiplex - 

Pros: super light and cheap and has a very ergonomic case. Used Airtronics receiver crystals and receivers (I'm not sure if it still has that compatibility). I think this had the best trigger feel of all the radios I've used.

Cons: case color is kinda fruity. I though the steering wheel didn't have enough travel.



Anyways, most of these run between $170 (Multiplex) -> $400 (JR R1). They all are great radios and you should be happy with them all. There really isn't a 'best' radio once you get into that price range. They all pretty much have the same adjustabilities and functions so it all boils down to how much you want to spend, which radio feels more comfortable for you, and which physical design you like better.

The JR XR3 is a very decent radio, too, just to throw another in there (but I thought it didn't have enough steering wheel travel).

-Rich


----------



## patcollins

I have an M8 and I think its a great radio except the steering wheel is too small, my hand cramps up after 5 minutes of a race.....can't imagine an hour long nitro race using it. Been trying to find some way of making it more comfortable while not making it look like a "******* radio"

Expo can be beneficial, it can also be detrimental at times. The M8 has a "response time" adjustment that I use alot more than the expo. It is used to slow down fast servos in the forward and reverse directions (seperately) or to slow down throttle response too.


----------



## DaWrench

Hi,

My son has a new 3PK. by far it is the best Futaba radio yet. easy to get around in loads of features and the drop down wheel is nice. so far he has really liked this radio.

Pros... nice BIG display screen,quick set up screen, HRS RX, easy menus (3) to get around in,you can adjust everything on this radio. nice grip (fits both my hand and my son's). able to change to a drop down wheel quickly. (ours came that way) great balance. can convert to left hand fast and easy.

cons.....the instructions are somewhat confusing at first. the HRS Rx can only be used with a digtail servo. slightly heavier than a 3PJS. antenna is longer than most. modlue might be a little hard to get out at first. somewhat tempermental with the HiTec Sprectra module.can't use the Compac chip from the 3PJS. somewhat hard on batteries. different colour of the radio???

3PJS,

Pros,

nice radio, easy on batteries, decent balance, works with the HiTec Specrta Module.

Cons,

hard to get around in, had to remmember what set of bottons to push to get to a certain screens. small screen. hard on batteries. smallist grip. somewhat hard to get around in the menus.

M8,

I have limited time with this radio. it is hard on batteries. didn't like the fact that when you changed the centering on the steering servo you lost the amount you changed to the side you changed to. small grip. not as easy to get around in as some other radios. Jason didn't feel comfortable driving it.

R1,

Pros,

nice screen, easy to get around in. fit my hand without amy kind of wrapping on the grip. and everything Rich said.

cons,

the heaviest radio we have ever owned.

HiTec,

we have never owned one.

KO MARS.

pretty much what Rich said. I found the menus easier than the M8, 3PJS. but not as easy as the R1.

Thanks


----------



## Guest

*New to the TC3!*

Hello all!! I just got a TC3 RTR for Christmas. Also I am new to the hobby as well. I look forward to getting plenty of advice from you all and I cannot wait to start driving my car. I have to wait for a charger before I start running my car.

I am going with the Reedy Quasar Pro. I am also going to upgrade my radio too. I am torn between the MX-3 or the XR3-i.

Later,

Jeff


----------



## rowle1jt

Go with the Airtronics, no question. JR makes an awesome radio, the R1. But their lower priced radios are not nearly as nice, I had an XR3 for about 6 months. I hated it the whole time, it ate batteries, was uncomfortable to hold/use and it was difficult to program. I have a Futaba 3pdf now, and love it. I used an MX-3 last weekend when I drove a buddies car for a couple laps, in that short time I could tell that I liked it more than I ever liked the XR3. 

My .02 cents. 
Jake


----------



## Guest

Thanks for the radio input.


----------



## rayhuang

*Narrowed chassis*

Walter,

I ran my narrowed chassis that has the battery box lowered 0.0250" and batteries moved all the way into driveshaft and it does seem to handle better. By better-I mean car feels more predictable and more stable. I definately like that modification!!! Well worth the time and effort to do it!!!

Ray


----------



## rowle1jt

Come on Ray! Pictures Pictures! 
Jake


----------



## Rich Chang

Here are pics of my chassis. I did mine with a dremel tho, so it probably doesn't look as nice as Ray's.


----------



## Rich Chang

Pic of battery in place. The ruler is showing there is about a 10mm gap in-between the edge of the cell and the inner edge of the tub chassis.


----------



## Rich Chang

Pic of battery clearing drive shaft.


----------



## Rich Chang

Pic of batteries in place.


----------



## rayhuang

Jake-if I could wrestle the digital camera out of my dads grip for a day-I would. Its supposed to be a work camera-but you know dads!!!


----------



## rowle1jt

rayhuang said:


> *Jake-if I could wrestle the digital camera out of my dads grip for a day-I would. Its supposed to be a work camera-but you know dads!!! *


 LoL, Yeah my dad is the same way which is why I ended up buying my own! 

Rich thanks for the pics! How long did it take you to do? It looks pretty cool and man is that tempting to try! How much did it help your handling? Have you seen the setup that Keith Hamilton runs in his TC3?
Later
Jake


----------



## Rich Chang

I did two chassis. The first one probably took me about 2 hours to do since I wasn't sure how I was going to do the whole thing. The 2nd chassis probably took me about an hour to do it right. I'm sure someone else could do it faster, but whether it will look as nice is another story (if they used a dremel). A mill will definitely be quicker and have a better finish.

Yeah, I saw Keiths 4x2 config. I had thought about doing that when I first got a TC3 after doing some weight calculations, but I am too anal to split up my battery packs. :lol:


----------



## Rich Chang

Moving the battery inward helps especially in sweeper type turns. The car feels flatter and better balanced. 

Through fast switch backs it also feels a lot more balanced.

So, overall, the car is a lot more balanced feeling.


----------



## rowle1jt

> _Originally posted by Rich_
> *I'm to anal to split my packs*


 LoL I thought about trying it, but its too much work for as often as I run road course.  Now dremeling the chassis, that I could do. I'd probably mess it up though! LoL I guess I will have to take a look at the 'ol TC3 tonight and see what I can do with it.
thanks guys!
Jake


----------



## joneser

*DAWRENCH*

When you say the 3pk is tempermental with the hitec module, what do you mean? I was considering this radio because I love the way it feels....I am betting they come out with a module because there is no other reason for those slots on the module cover. I would only get it if it works with the hitec module in the mean time. Also does it get easier to remove the module as time goes on. Thanks in advance.


----------



## rayhuang

Jake,

I can save you the hassle of dremeling with a inexpensive alternative!! I have a new Composite chassis cut out beautifully on a Bridgeport. E-mail me for a price!! It has slots between every battery for extra cooling and to aid in taping batteries down if you choose. It has battery box lowered 0.0250", batteries moved inboard almost a 0.40". And also a square cutoout under the servo, and 4 holes placed under the front and rear tranny cases to lighten. Also the motor mount cut out has been enlarged slightly for better motor cooling and for less weight. Its sweet!!! JOneser has one-ask him what he thinks of it!!!

Ray
[email protected]


----------



## rowle1jt

Ray, YGM! :thumbsup:
Jake


----------



## joneser

*Chassis*

The work on the chassis that Ray has is good work...nice and clean. I have put mine on a diet though and eliminated more weight. I am now in the process of sanding the sides and bottom to make it nice and smooth with round edges. Should be completed this evening and ready to race Sunday!


----------



## rowle1jt

Thanks Jones!
Jake


----------



## rayhuang

*Picture*

heres a pic. of the milled chassis.


----------



## rayhuang

Here is a shot from the bottom. Sorry about poor light quality!!! Notice extra holes under tranny cases!!


----------



## Rich Chang

SHOW OFF!  :lol:


----------



## Roddude65

*Not Bad*

Hey Ray

How far over did you go with the batteries? .... I ended up getting to 7 mm with batteries either forward or backward.

:dude:


----------



## rayhuang

Rodude65-we went in close to 0.40"!! We started with 0.125" then 0.200", then decided-what the heck-the chassis is still stiff as can be!!! I really like how they turned out!! This stuff is FUN!!! I only wish I could fit a CNC machine, Autoclave, Injection molding machine, sterosynthesis machine in my basement!!! hehehe!!!


----------



## Rich Chang

Ray - it looks like my batteries are farther in than your's? The reason I ask is that you still have more of the center brace left than I do?


----------



## NTC3NUT

It doesn't look like Ray went in to the 1/2 way point. Still looks good though.


----------



## rayhuang

*Milled chassis*

Rich and Mike,

I can go in any distance I want on the next batch of chassis done. Is there any benefit to going in further? My batteries bars are almost touching the driveshaft now!!! if you guys would measure from stock to where you have gone in, let me know!! Skies the limit on these things!!!

Ray


----------



## Rich Chang

Ray, I have milled off everything up to the last "triangle" in the center brace. You should be able to see it in the pictures I attached.  It probably moves the cells in a few mm farther in than what you have. I have the "posts" where I solder the wires to the speedo on the outside of the battery pack (see the pics for what I mean) -- I'm not sure where you have your's. This allows the cells to be a lot closer to the drive shaft.

With the 3300s being so much heavier than 3000s, every extra amount the cells are moved in helps. 

-Rich


----------



## x Racer x

*Milled TC3 chassis*

Hey guys! Been reading up on your posts on the milled chassis. I have been running the TC3 since it first hit the carpet. The very first thing i did was lower my batteries and servo in the chassis. (im talkin the second week i had the car) The second thing i have done is channel the center X's out..all except the last one on each end of the center brace for more torsional flex using a graphite chassis on high bite asphalt or carpet with sway bars. Then using the very same thing i also split the cells in a 2-4 configuration... the four on the driver side towards the back...receiver and speedo in front... then servo, two cells, and motor on the right. Car was exceptionally balanced (within .5 gram from side to side from battery change to battery change... front and back depending on the amount of solder on the battery connections i assume was the difference.) I have yet to see the need for moving the batteries towards the centerline of the car...the closer they are to the center, the twitchier the car becomes. It is true, the closer the weight gets to the centerline.. the faster the car transitions from left to right. So i guess it would depend on the style track you usually run on... tight and alot of chicanes... or open with alot of sweepers. And yes, i do have a few chassis for different style tracks. But when you begin to move the weight of the car to the center... you actually change roll moment of the chassis...and the eventual effect w/o changing other things on the suspension... is you are only making the car less efficient. (remember: we are all still aiming for the most efficient suspension/drivetrain within the same weight limitations... so why remove all that plastic from the chassis that is as low as it can get....just to have to add more lead above the original chassis line? Isnt that actually defeating the purpose of keeping it as low as it can go?) Of course... if you are running a 8x2 in the seat...it really isnt that important. LOL But as far as stock goes... efficiency is all the rage. One big package to cross the line ahead of the competetion! Anyhoo, my .02 cents, just thought id share. Once i figure out how to add pics... ill toss 'em in!

- Racer X :devil:


----------



## Guest

I think you'll find that a lot of guys who are moving the batteries in race on carpet on tight tracks. IE, the exact circumstances you mention. I don't know how much this stuff has benn tested on asphalt...


----------



## Rich Chang

Racer X - yeah, with the configuration you have (4x2 battery split) there really is no need to move the cells in. 

However, the rest of us are running the default setup where the 6-cell pack is on the left side of the chassis. Thus, the weight of the car (especially with GP3300s) is severely biased to the left side. Hence why we are moving/have moved the cells in toward the center of the chassis (without having to go to a 4x2 split).

-Rich


----------



## rowle1jt

Just like Rich said, him and I race on some of the same tracks. And my car doesn't get to see Asphalt! I won't let it, Touring Cars were made for carpet right? LoL 


Ray, I will mail you tommorow.
Jake


----------



## TRL

*losi hubs*

HI guys

I need a little help I recently tried to put the losi 1/2 degree hubs on reverse on my tc3 and it seems the standard camber links are too short.THe link is mounted up and long on the tower and in the outer whole on the hub.Is there other camber links to use or should the standard ones work? 

Thanks!


----------



## rayhuang

Go to the LHS and get the super long Losi ball cups for the offroad cars and you'll be fine. I used stock turnbuckles with the Losi cup on one side and a longish RPM cup no the other end. To go back to stock hubs-you'll just need to take off the Losi ball cup and put an associated one back on.


----------



## TRL

*rear toe in*

Thanks Ray

OK i have some more questions,I'am running the f-block instead of the r block in the back of the car with the 3+0 block and that gives me 2 degree toe but wider.If i run run r-block in the rear with 2+0 block that also gives me 2 degree toe.And with the losi hubs when running them with f-block in the rear if i put them on reverse that takes toe out of the car and running them normal put's toe in the car??

I guess my question is how much toe is in the car when running the f-block in the rear of the car with the 2+0 block, if with the 3+0 block there is 2 degree's? 

Anybody?? or you just don't run it with the 2+0 block??lol


----------



## chicky03

TRL,

There will be 1 deg. if you run the F block with the R-2+0. You will also have pro-squat instead of anti-squat when using the F block. You need to shim the F block up .030 to get your anti-squat back if that is what you are looking for. I am not exactally sure what the difference on the track will be. Anyone???

Paul


----------



## TRL

I just though you had to run the losi 1 degree hubs on reverse to get 1 degree toe,wasn't sure if running the 2+0 would also give you 1 degree toe in.Yes i do have a .030 shim under the f-block already!


----------



## NTC3NUT

When you are using the rear tower up front, where are you guys running into problems with ride height? I have the new arms on my car, and I also have the reartower up front. I have tried using the outer holes on the new front arms, but I have to give up too much steering throw to use them. I have to turn my steering rate way down in order for the inner wheels to keep from hitting the lower shock mount screws. I left the upper shock mount in the outer most position, then moved the lower mount on the arm back to the original inner position, to allow more steering throw. I run my ride height at 4mm all around, and had no problems getting it that low. I could even go lower if needed. Do you run into the ride height problems when you move the upper mounts in? Wouldn't that be the same as using the original front tower? Is it that your running a smaller, or larger diameter tire? I'm just trying to understand where the problem lies. I haven't run into it yet, and I would like to avoid it. Thanks!


----------



## x Racer x

*regards the new arms and shock tower...*

Sounds to me as if you still have limiters in your shocks. Or... and i have run into this... try pulling down on your shock shafts. For some reason, after extended use, the bobbin inside the shock seems to wiggle up because there isnt any limiters hitting it and keeping it down thru shock travel. With the droop screws in place, the shock shaft never fully extends to keep the bobbin pressed down. Or maybe i just need to replace the bobbins in my shocks! (or maybe your o-rings arent sitting in the bottom of the shock right?) But i ran into a similar situation, and found i just needed to remove the limiters in my shocks. Now the front end with the new arms and rear shock tower has plenty of downtravel. Makes me wish i was Colin McRae in that Ford Focus haulin tail up a mountain side... spewin dirt off my knobby tires! Enough of my peppermint patty dreams... hope this helps!
- Racer X


----------



## BUBBAICM

*Carpet set up???Hampton/ hobbytown*

Dave U been stuck in the sticks tooooo longg hey just picked up a tc3 from wayne just want a carpet set up to run at hampton. looks like hobbytown going to get back into carpet racn also there adverising 35x90 tc track. Jim knows that he'll loose busness when their track opens sorry to say that but its true its true hes got to expand tc track 6' straight with 7' inside section starting to get old real quick can't run more than 4 with out the track being to crowded i haven't had a clean run yet just tired of being hacked to death
conflickting scheudles of stream and tidewater have already cut into the crowd......... See YA !Bubba


----------



## threeflys

Hey all, I 've got a question.
I bought a Trinity roll over antenna for my TC3, my first question is what's the best way to route the antenna since the shaft is solid?
right now I just have it coiled around the shaft.
Second, how do you keep the shaft from poking out the bottom of the chassis? (this applies to non-roll over also).
Just wondering,
Chris

As far as being "hacked to death", come on it's just local R/C racing!
If it was a national or something, then I could see getting upset.
I'll stick with Tidewater for the simple fact that I can't trust anything HobbyTown says, they already lied to once trying to get me to spend $150 on a Novak GT7 just because they were out of Cyclone TC2s. (they told me Novak quit making the TC2). But hey, good luck there! It's to far for me to drive anyway! Besides I think Jim will be around long after that track is.
Just my .02


----------



## NTC3NUT

I think Novak did quit making the entire Cyclone line. Their website shows them all as discontinued.??


----------



## Rich Chang

Yep - this was brought up in another thread on here. The Novak folks confirmed that the GT7 is the replacement for the TC/TC2 line and that line is no longer made.

You *will* still be able to get warranty work performed on Cyclones.

-Rich


----------



## threeflys

"I think Novak did quit making the entire Cyclone line. Their website shows them all as discontinued.??"

I just checked the website and it shows nothing about the cyclones deing dicontinued. Under the products section, it lists the TC2/Cyclone right along side the GT7.
If thye are discontinuing it, I guess I owe HBYTown an apoligy, I'm just not convinced it is yet.

Anyone have any tips on the antenna thing?
Chris


----------



## lastplace

threefries, either go to Tidewater or make the trek to Debbie's, I've been far and wide and debbie's is one of the best out there, Eric knows RC cars, just my .02,


PS I hear GT7 don't hold up in 4 cell racing


----------



## Bodido

Threeflys...

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXWT38&P=7

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXWT39&P=7

Sad but true

discontinued


----------



## threeflys

Is Eric at Debbies? Not sure I know him.

BTW- I lost the carpet knife on ebay, the winning bid was 169.00
too rich for my blood!


----------



## TRL

*Walter Henderson*

I was just wondering what your set-up was at Trackside this week-end for stock?And did you change much between stock and mod?

thanks for any help?:thumbsup:


----------



## Rich Chang

I am pretty sure the Novak race at Trackside this past weekend is a rubber tire race?


----------



## NTC3NUT

The pictures I saw where all rubber tired cars. And Yes, if you go to the Novak website and look up operating manuals for the Cyclone line, you'll have to look in the "discontinued" column. Same for repair info I believe, all under discontinued models.


----------



## TRL

Yup i know,going to a rubber race myself!


----------



## walterhenderson

TRL,

Setup
Front- 50 wt,#2s,blue springs-middle hole in tower(used a rear tower)outer hole in arm,11/2*camber-long and up,6*castor,0*kickup,3*antidive,1* toeout
Rear- 40 wt,#2s,silver springs-middle hole in tower-outer arm hole,11/2*camber-raised up on standoffs off of tranny w/losi o*hubs in outer hole,3* toein,battery foward,alfa body,nitro steering rack,batteries moved in .300".
All i changed was tires and motor from stock to mod, Walter


----------



## Greg Anthony

Hey Walt what about diff's?? any one ways or spools?:wave:

See you Sat for some roundy-round action...


----------



## SilverEvader

*Price question*

What's a TC3 RTR with 200mm kit and Novak Cyclone and Fantom 19-turn worth? Also what would it be worth without the electronics. It's got a bunch of other accessories:

FT Anti-roll bar
FT Graphite Rear Shock tower
FT Complete Spring set
Rear Shock tower on front
4 sets of tires/rims (all almost new)
IRS Heatsink (underside of motor)
FT Finned Heatsink (regular curved clips on motor)
2 190mm bodies (1 beat up, 1 okay)
200mm toyota MR-S body
All original 190mm parts
LRP Runner ESC
Associated Power19 motor
Team Orion Orbital 2 BB 10x2
and more...


----------



## rowle1jt

I wouldn't pay more than $300 or $350 personally. My .02 cents. :thumbsup:

RTR, so I am assuming that it includes Radio? What about batteries and charger?
Jake


----------



## TRL

Walter

thanks very much,and yes front diff,spool or one-way?


----------



## walterhenderson

oh ya, i forgot that- front spool.


----------



## SilverEvader

*Yes It has a radio*

No batteries or charger.

But thanks for your opinion on the price.


----------



## Greg Anthony

Walt, 
You coming down Fri, or just Sat and sunday?


----------



## walterhenderson

i will be down thurs. to help get everything setup,including the L4


----------



## TRL

*Walter*

Sorry to be a pain in the A**

Just a few things i don't understand,how did you achieve 3* anitdive shims underneath the f block???and how do you know it's three degree's?

Also imnot sure i understand what you mean by "11/2*camber-raised up on standoffs off of tranny w/losi o*hubs in outer hole,3* toein"?

And any sway-bars? 

Thanks again!


----------



## threeflys

*Sway Bars*

Hey All,
Any of you TC3 drivers have any input on sway bars? I picked up two sets today and was thinking about putting a set on the back as I would like more steering. What would putting sway bars on both ends do?
Chris :roll:


----------



## walterhenderson

ok, to get antidive you need alittle bit of time. first add a .030" shim under the "f" block(the rear wheelbase washers work well)then take the f-0 block and cut it down .030". then take the bumper and cut it down .030" where it rests on the chassis.Bolt on the f-0 block to the bumper and the mounting holes should be flush with the bottom of the bumper.

as for the rear camber links i ran 0* losi hubs with the ballstud in the outermost hole.As for the inner ballstud i put .425" standoffs on top of the middle tranny case holes with a ballstud in the top.(This gives you more rear bite) And i used 3-0 rear toein block.

And i ran a stock front swaybar. Walter


----------



## TRL

Walter
Thanks again

IM learning a tonne from you,so I guess i should keep getting info while your giving it for free LOL:thumbsup: What about the f block in the rear are you running it as well,and who makes the standoffs that you used,as i would like to try it cuz i can never have enough bite in rubber tires!

Do you also use losi steering blocks?


----------



## Rich Chang

TRL - for the standoffs (I just did some measuring) -- if you have a 12L3 you can use the standoff that is underneath the damper plate pod. But, you'll need two.


----------



## walterhenderson

Rich is correct i used the standoffs off of the 12l3/10l4 associated part #4442b.You need 2 packagesas ther is only 1 of the correct lengh in each bag.

I use the f block in the rear only on foam tires.As well as losi steering blocks on foam tires. Walter


----------



## NTC3NUT

Walter, Your talking about the "F" block in the (front) rear of the car, and the "F-0" block & bumper in the (front) front of the car, right? (I hope that makes sense.) So what your doing is putting the hinge pins (front & rear) on an angle thats higher twords the center of the car?






> ok, to get antidive you need alittle bit of time. first add a .030" shim under the "f" block(the rear wheelbase washers work well)then take the f-0 block and cut it down .030". then take the bumper and cut it down .030" where it rests on the chassis.Bolt on the f-0 block to the bumper and the mounting holes should be flush with the bottom of the bumper.


----------



## TRL

Walter

The car work really good with that set-up,just wondering what you ran for droop?


----------



## walterhenderson

4 1/2 in the front and 3 1/2 in the rear


----------



## stevent

walterhenderson said:


> *4 1/2 in the front and 3 1/2 in the rear *


What ride height?
stevent


----------



## Guest

hey..what everyone think about all the chasis cutting for stock class? i was told that its mostly a mod class thing to help with all the power...wil lthey be a big help on carpet with foems with stock motors?


----------



## walterhenderson

5mm ride height

As for will the chassis cutting help in stock. Yes it will,it is a BIG advantage in stock or modified. Walter


----------



## TRL

*toe-in*

Walter

If I wanted less toe-in with your rubber set-up what would be the way to go,just runt the 2+0 block and that gives you 2* with losi 0* hubs,is it possible to get less with 11/2 or 1* losi hubs toe with the r block in the back or does that only work if you have the f block in?

I think that makes sense? 

thanks!


----------



## walterhenderson

You could go either way. The losi 1/2* blocks backwords(right on the left and left on the right) will take out 1/2* per side. So with the 2* block you would get 1 1/2* and with the 3* block you would get 2 1/2* . Walter


----------



## TRL

Walter

Thanks for the info, just wondering why you don't use the F block in the back for rubber tires,just a preference thing or is there another reason?


----------



## Mark Adams

*Racing this weekend?*

Hello Walter!

Where do you plan on racing this weekend? Just trying to figure out where everyone is going?

Mark


----------



## walterhenderson

No real reason other than you really don't need to get rid of the toe-in like on foam tires.

Mark, if i run it will be sunday in lansing.


----------



## Mark Adams

*Send Me a e-mail*

Hello Walt...

shoot me a e-mail tonight or tomorrow if you are going. I would like to run 12th scale on sunday to test the the new body. [email protected]

Mark


----------



## rayhuang

Hey guys,

What is the change in handling when raising the ballstud on the rear hub carrier? 


Also-is raising the camber links-or lowering as the case may be, the the same as lowering or raising the lower arms via the innner hingepin locations? 

I am looking for a quick and easy way to dramatically change the roll center on the back of the TC3 for testing purposes. BAsically to see if I raise the rear roll center if I can make the car rotate as fast as before, but make the rear of car feel more planted-but not with a lot of rear toe in.


----------



## UrboTurbo

I think it's really only the length of the rod thar makes the most difference, thats why people are using the Losi rear blocks isn't it?:wave:


----------



## Rich Chang

Yes and no. The length does affect roll based on the lever-arm principle. However, the angle it is at affects intersection points for the actual roll-center.


----------



## rayhuang

*A little theory and geometry!!!*

I looked back 18 pages and found this by Tom Englehart-one of the moderators of this site-I knew it was in here somewhere!!!

This is how to draw and find the roll center in a static state anyways!!!

Quote:
By moving the link up, the roll center is moved up.

Think of it this way....the imaginary line (an X) from the lower left inner hinge pin to the upper right inner hole on the shock tower (half of the X)....other half being the lower right inner hinge pin and the upper left inner hole on the shock tower.

By raising the inner camber links, the roll center is moved up...because the center of the X is raised....and the car will react sooner to the change in the chassis as it enters, traverses, and exits the corners.

Now, by moving the inner camber link positions in or out, affects how quickly the car reacts in the corners. Why? The further out on the shock tower the inner, upper camber link position, the sooner the suspension is affected by the chassis roll....so....the quicker reacting the car will be (if the traction is there, etc, etc). Unquote.


----------



## rayhuang

So to answer my own question-I need to lengthen and raise the inner camber link even more. That will raise the roll center and make the rear of the car react slower to the chasis roll or weight transfer.

hmmmm... Sounds like the mod Walter just suggested with the ball stud atop the tranny case....hahaha!!!!


I stil dont know how the raising of the ballstud on the outside translates to what you should feel. Is it the same as raising the inner camber link-or the opposite affect. arrggghhhhh. Getting a headache!!! This is why I sell generators and am not the enginner on Michael Andretti's Champ car. Darn my feeble brain....


----------



## ohiorcdad

Hey Ray,
I am thinking about having a chassis milled for Jake. Can you e-mail me with how to get it to you so I can send it and have it done. Also let me know how much it costs.

Thanks,
Dean


----------



## Rich Chang

Ray -- yes and no (that is my favorite saying today). I just checked with Fred B. who is my roll-center guru.

The point of interserction depends on the angle of the lower arm. And, since you are running my setup on your car  , the rear arms should be sloped in. So, lowering the rear camber link will raise the roll center.


----------



## TRL

Well I found running the posts on the tranny case gave the car a tonne of bite especially side bite,was fighting a push off power with rubber tires. 

Anyway enough with the stupid rubber tires,lol I was just wondering Walter do you use the posts with foams too?


----------



## rayhuang

Cool-let larger brains prevail!!! I'll lower the camber link and leave your set-up alone and see what it feels like!! Rich, the car is so fast right now!!! Its just a tad hairy as we discussed.


----------



## Rich Chang

.


----------



## TRL

Well I found running the posts on the tranny case gave the car a tonne of bite especially side bite,was fighting a push off power with rubber tires. 

Anyway enough with the stupid rubber tires,lol I was just wondering Walter do you use the posts with foams too?


----------



## Rich Chang

btw: 

http://competitionx.com

is a great site for getting concise info on what the various suspension components of these touring cars do.


----------



## rowle1jt

Anything I do lately doesn't help. My car is slow no matter what. Will it help if I take it off the shelf and run it?  LoL


----------



## Fred B

Of course when I got back from lunch I had a moment of doubt...sketched it out and I was right. If the inner pivot point on the arm (Chassis)is below the outer (hub), the rollcenter will be raised if you lower the inner camber link. There are exceptions, but that's pretty much the case on a TC3. I almost always have to sketch it out on paper to see what's happening.


----------



## SilverEvader

*200mm On asphault*

Anyone running 200mm for parking lot racing on asphault? We have a recently repaved parking lot behind the local HobbyTown. Have been trying to run my TC3 with the 200mm kit. Just broke a front a-arm (dumpster, my fault) the other night. If anyone cares to share a setup (either 1900 or 200) for parking lot racing, I would appreciate it. Looking for all the good stuff:

oil wt
springs
camber
caster
toe-in/toe out
ride height
droop
body

You know all the goodies... Oh yeah I have to running a rear shock tower in the front as well as a anti-roll bar in the front. Biggest problem is U-turns, always spin out... TIA:thumbsup:


----------



## rayhuang

Dean,

I sent you an e-mail yesterday-please let me know if you got my reply to your question!!!

TO all the other Tc3 drivers-if you want a chassis milled-I am planning a run next week-so please contact me as soon as possible about them!!

Ray
[email protected]


----------



## x Racer x

*4x2 chassis*

Hey guys. We were talking about the 4x2 layout on the TC3 a few weeks ago. I finally got around to getting a cam and being able to post a few pics of the car im takin to the Birds. But since im new here on the forum i thought it would be good to ask how to post a pic or two of it. Im sure you would save to the hard drive and pull from there... but i havent ever done it on here before. Any tips? Any file (pic) sizes that work best? I was also reading the posts you guys were making on using standoffs on the inside camber link positions. I am assuming its the one that you attach to the tranny case? I have seen it but never had the opportunity to discuss it with anyone. What is tire wear like when using this mod? Does it add an amount of side bite worth the tire wear i can imagine it would cause to the sidewall of the tire? Again i have not done this... forgive me if i seem ignorant. LOL Thanks...

- Racer X


----------



## rowle1jt

Racer X, to "attache" a file to your post it must be under 30K, other wise you will need to link to it from webspace. I hope that helps, could help a little more if you knew you had the pics on your HD.


----------



## x Racer x

30 k? Yikes all im gettin off my cam are 80k and above. >grr< I think if i reduce the quality of the pics.. it will solve the issue. Stay tuned... lol

- Dave


----------



## x Racer x

*Pics of the 4x2 chassis...*

Man i have tried and tried... i cant get them small enough to fit on here. I have changed pixel quality and all that. I do know the file is uncompressed... that might be it. Oh well... if yall really wanna see it... email me at [email protected]. i have a good amount of pics. Shows the 4X2 layout of the batteries, the lowered servo, relieved center brace for more torsional flex (and lower, closer to centerline mounting of weights), and the graphite removable radio tray. Anyhoo... see yas at the Birds!

- Dave


----------



## rowle1jt

Hey man, shoot some pics to me and I will compress and post them for you. 
[email protected]


----------



## x Racer x

*Pics...*

Ok jake i sent you the pics... and another friend of mine as well. I hope you can get them compressed and on the site...i think the guys might like to look at them! Again thanks for you help. 
- Dave


----------



## TimTC3

*CRC Clicker Shocks*

Has anyone used these clicker shocks from CRC (https://www1515.boca15-verio.com/te...cgi?page=tc3parts.html&cart_id=443280_1284160). I always have a terrible time getting the shocks to be even for viscosity so this would be a great help.

-Tim


----------



## Rich Chang

I've been using Yokomo shock caps -- they have a hole and a screw in them which make bleeding and making the shocks equal much much easier.

It was mentioned to me recently that Yokomo has newer caps that have a bladder in them. Those would be even better in my opinion.

-Rich


----------



## patcollins

I use General Silicones bladders in my shocks, I also have a hole drilled in the caps of my associated shocks...no screw or anything just a hole to let the bladder expand without any pressure build up behind it. They work amazingly well.


----------



## SilverEvader

*Updated question*

After breaking yet another a-arm, both after I ripped of my wing in a pile up, I'm going back to 190mm(I have more bodies for 190mm).

Any setup tips for freshly paved parking lot?


----------



## R. Dornseif

*TC3 IRS Carbon Chassis*

Does anybody know anything about the IRS Carbon Chassis? Good or bad?
Some people say the Hardcore Carbon chassis is not stiff enough. Does the IRS share the same porblems?


----------



## Mackin

The IRS chassis seems to flex to much for carpet. Why would you want to change from the stock graphite chassis? If I were going to do anything I would move my batteries closer to the shaft.

chuck


----------



## rowle1jt

Sorry this took me so long to post, I have been dealing w/ my fathers health issues. 

TC3 Chassis


----------



## Guest

Can any of you guys in Michigan point out what helps to free up the Tc3 on foams? I can get my car to be decent, but i have driven a buddy's XXXS lately, and it was super free rolling in the corners.

Here's my setup in general
front
white spring
middle hole tower, inside arm, front tower
#3 70wt
upper inner camber rod
6caster (losi)
2 kickup
.063 swaybar
0 toe in

rear
purple spring
middle hole tower, outer on arm
#3 50wt
upper inner camber rod, outer on hub (losi 1/2*)
3+2 block, w/reversed losi 1/2 hubs
.055 swaybar

batteries back
mid wheel base
Parma X20
batteries moved towards center of car

Plaid purple TRC


----------



## Mike D

I'm not from Michigan but I have some ideas.  Try the 'F' block on place of the 'R' block and the R+3+0. If you are running stock, run the Losi 1 degree rear hubs reversed. These changes should help the car rotate in and off the turn better.


----------



## mattgar99

on my tc3 ... when i tighten the front lock nuts to the wheel the wheel does not turn freely. I was wondering what could have caused that and why this happens?


----------



## stevent

mattgar99 said:


> *on my tc3 ... when i tighten the front lock nuts to the wheel the wheel does not turn freely. I was wondering what could have caused that and why this happens? *


check the roll pins, they bend easily.
stevent


----------



## spaz456

make sure you dont overtighten the wheel nuts just enough until they snug up the wheel and everything should rotate freely.


----------



## Rich Chang

Also make sure the cylindrical spacer is in-between the two bearings in the steering knuckle.


----------



## Motor City Hamilton

Kicasso said:


> *Can any of you guys in Michigan point out what helps to free up the Tc3 on foams? I can get my car to be decent, but i have driven a buddy's XXXS lately, and it was super free rolling in the corners.
> 
> Definately the F block on the rear. I use that and R-2-0 and 1/2 degree losi hubs put on backwards (right on left and left on right). I would also try the same springs all around. I bounce between purles on front and rear to yellows all around. I am also a bit lighter on the oils (50-3 front and 40-3 rear). My shock are in the outer holes of the shock towers. Some Michigan guys have been making wider rear shock towers and standing them up even more (with lighter rear springs, though). I haven't tried this yet.*


----------



## x Racer x

*Pics of TC3...*

Jake, thanks for postin the pics of my car...im sorry to hear about your fathers health issues. I appreciate what you have done, and wish your fathers health to improve. 
As far as the Snowbirds went... it was awesome. A little bit of hacking here and there... heck i doled out a few hacks myself! LOL Alot of tension and pressure there... but the sportsmanship and racing attitude was all the same. I hope to be a little more prepared next time i go! See yas!
- Dave


----------



## Guest

Thanks guys for the responses. Putting the F block in the rear gives pro squat from what i can tell, correct? This also affects toe in?

Would putting anti dive in the front also be worth trying? My friend put some anti dive in the front on his car.

thanks again


----------



## Motor City Hamilton

TC3 Chassis [/B][/QUOTE] 

Hmmmm. Jake - where did this chassis configuration come from? You can still cut some material from under the motor. I wouldn't run that chassis in anything but stock class. I wonder how flexi it got.


----------



## x Racer x

*Chassis...*

Hamilton... its the chassis for my TC3. And belive it or not... it really doesnt flex THAT much more than a standard graphite chassis. The center area was relieved for a bit more torsional flex, and made the car a little bit easier to drive on the high bite track at the Birds. My poor performance was lack of track time, not the car. ( i posted 12.6 lap times with it... just not consistently) I only had six packs on the track... including the qualifiers and the main. My third qualifier was on pace for a fast 23 lap run... and the traffic was uncooperative to say the least. To get into the A in stock you had to have a solid 25 lap pace... and every guy in there had a list of sponsors read off at the beginning of the race. I believe with the necessary practice time put into the track, and a little more time with the cars different handling ability, it was definitely capable of a fast 24 laps. Now add the assistance of sponsored batteries and a motor tech.... and a decent driver...LOL Your statement as far as durability goes... the car took many a hard whack at the Birds... as mentioned above... traffic was unforgiving to say the least. Not a single break! Trial by fire if i do say so myself!  Modified WOULD be interesting to try. But i would say the extra forces added to the car would make it a little bit slow to run in modified. Testing will only tell. Cyrul had a sweet graphite center brace that ran from the front and rear tranny braces that might be another alternative for more flex control... back to the drawing boards...!

- Dave


----------



## rayhuang

Dave,

I think your chassis is sweeeeeetttt!!!!!! And I make milled chassis for profit and i think your chassis is awesome!! Looks like it would be incredible on asphalt or rubber tires on carpet-Anywhere where a "little" bit of chassis flex makes creating grip easier!!! or at least easier to drive on the limit. Thats my one single complaint (well one of them) about the Tc3-its so fast-but its too difficult to drive the exact same line every single lap when your really , really pushing for a killer fast qualifier.

Ray


----------



## SecretSquirrel

Are those changes going to help all turning or does it help more on turn in, middle, or off?

I need help getting more in the middle and off. I think with the 4 deg Losi blocks I like the turn-in, but then the car starts to push.

HELP!
SS


----------



## Motor City Hamilton

I think I have seen that 4 and 2 battery configuration somewhere before. Hmmmm...  Where did I see that???  Hmmmm... I think... Hmmmm... Jake???


----------



## x Racer x

Antidive...
I like the F-0 block up front and 4 degree caster blocks. The F-0 on a high bite surface seems to smooth the car out...and let the chassis rotate a little more consistently. Of course my car is a little different too, with the chassis configuration, the weight is more balanced from right to left, and more forward. So it is going to have more initial steering coming into a corner, and i can run a little less caster. My question to you is, have you played with your bumpsteer any? What about the part of the tires you add traction too? Depending on where you add traction additive to the front tire (left right or inside) and the combination of caster you have... working in conjunction with your bumpsteer and camber, you can slightly variate the amount of steering in and out of a corner. (also the rounded edges on your tires sidewalls play a great affect on this) Of course, the rest of the car has to be close as far as your setup goes. Im talking small amounts of percentages here. Antidive seems to be more of use in Mod. Anytime you increase the amount of chassis roll and pitch as a variable in your setup, the more attention you have to pay to the actual chassis itself. (i.e. hingepin angles, driveline efficiency...regarding torque effects on angled driveline components, ease of part movement, sprung and unsprung weight, etc....) You cant always just add a stiffer spring and get the correct effect. Alot of the time its simple issues that make the car handle like poo... and we as racers are looking elsewhere for the solution. A perfect example was the track conditions at the Birds... an EXTREME amount of rubber was laid down on the track. But the oval cars travelled through some part of the TC track the opposite direction we drove. And even thought the carpet had a very short amount of pile to it, the car would be looser in those sections of the track. Even inconsistent, feeling as if the car was taking a set through the corner, only to surprisingly hit the inside line of the groove where it wasnt affected by the oval cars travelling path, and bite harder and want to pull you into the corner. Everyone was faced with the same racing conditions, so it made it fair for all. But later classes benefitted from the consistent runs from the TC's. Im just babbling here as i usually do. LOL Thanks for the compliments on the chassis Ray. I spent a few long days on that chassis with some calipers, a dremel tool and some sandpaper. I wish i had access to a milling machine and a lathe... i would have had my own car there! I have alot more pics of it if you want them. Finished and with everything mounted. I wish i had the time to make the removable radio tray flush with the chassis, but i got into crunch time and lost all of my practice time there as it is. All i can do is rework it and try again! Im gonna get off here before i babble anymore....LOL SEE YAS!

- Dave


----------



## SecretSquirrel

You did that with a DREMEL??? WOW!! 

I would like to nominate Dave (x racer x) as a certified Dremel God!

SS


----------



## rowle1jt

Motor City Hamilton said:


> *I think I have seen that 4 and 2 battery configuration somewhere before. Hmmmm...  Where did I see that???  Hmmmm... I think... Hmmmm... Jake??? *


LoL 

Yes, I remember disucussing your car with you in lansing at the CRL. I still keep thinking about what I want to try. Dremel and the get those batts closer to the centerline or go for the 4x2? I dunno.  

Keith do you have your chassis dremeled to get the batts in closer to the shaft?


----------



## Motor City Hamilton

I did make a new one in Cleveland. I still have the 4x2 split and I moved the left side batteries in toward the shaft. I don't use the back battery slot (I'm one forward)so the four leftside batteries are moved in just a little. I cut one rib (does that make sense?). There is a straight rib, then the x pattern ribs, then the rib on the other side. I just cut the straight one out, leaving the full x in the middle. The right side batteries are drawn directly across from the two front lefts and at the same width from the center as the left. I did cut out the extra crap from around the motor. I removed the battery bar mounting posts. All this cutting made me 2 ounces under weight. I added the extra 2 ounces on the right side and now have a car that is balanced to within 2 grams, left to right.

I really believe that this has made my car better. And, although some team drivers will tell me that the stock position is better - and the proof is that I'm not beating them - I saw my lap times get better. I'm not a team driver - just the average joe racer looking for more speed.

Oh - Jake - you going to make it to Jackson this weekend? We can talk more about stuff then.


----------



## x Racer x

Hamilton i agree. I think the 4x2 setup makes the car a heck of alot smoother. Transitions from right to left in esses are far easier to navigate on the edge. Im sure others have done the car like this...i did it from one of them late night rebuild sessions when your car is apart... and weighed the varying parts of the car on scales. Servo two cells and a motor... and four cells speedo and receiver on the other. Weight was within half an ounce of each side. But this also varies with equipment used. Heck, the amount of solder used on your batteries can make a difference... afterall...lead IS the base for solder.... I am glad to talk to someone else that has tried this setup. I was awash with alot of input at the Birds. And had few packs to dial it in. I am curious tho, if you have the batteries on the driver side moved one cell forward more, what did your car scale out on a four scale tweak board? I am totally interested in your input... heck maybe we can come up with something that makes this car really hum! LOL (as if we are better designers than Cliff Lett...!!) Anyways... i appreciate the info... i got to go and spend some time with the little lady...see yall soon.... 

- Dave

P.S. Thanks Squirrel for the compliment... if you were serious...LOL


----------



## Rich Chang

You could always just dremel out the entire battery area and put in a graphite battery tray that could slide fore and aft as needed to get your weight distribution 50/50 front to rear if desired. Basically make it adjustable fore and aft like on many of the newer oval cars. 

I've seen it done on a TC3, so it is doable.


----------



## rowle1jt

No I won't be in Jackson this weekend...  I'm trying to get things moved around so I can make the fun run CRL in Lansing. Can't wait to see the Semi bodies in action... 

I would like to discuss it further with you, possibly at Lichtfield, if not before. I have a couple of questions that I'd like your input on.....


----------



## x Racer x

Wassup Roger?! Josh's head gettin big? No way man! Sponsorship gettin to him huh? Rumor has it... i may return... i seen Josh and Shane over the holidays... they know im on my way. LOL I told Josh he had a few months to get his ship straight... ill be there to mop up the mess! As far as droppin your servo into the chassis, its a little long and involved, and requires removing the lower ears on your servo. Calipers are required, and a little patience with a dremel tool. I could actually send you a template in the mail, one you could trace on your chassis and make it work. At least it would give you the dimensions to cut the chassis. The rest is done by hand on the servo mounts. You have to lower them, and make sure the servo case presses against the inside of the chassis so it doesnt move left and right while being used. If you got e-mail (im sure you do) i can send you pics that let you see it upclose. But i wouldnt attempt it unless you have a spare chassis to practice on. Been cuttin chassis for a long time man. Check Jadys T3. Its my old truck and has the batteries lowered for high bite tracks as well as the servo. ( not to mention a few other camber locations for rough tracks like Deb's) Matter of fact, if you look at Jady's truck it will give you a good idea how to do it... i patterned the work on the TC3 after what i did to that T3 over 3 years ago. I am however looking forward to getting back to the big city...im tired of playin with Ma n Pa in the woods. LOL E-mail me if ya got any more questions Roger... or if you want me to send yas any info... 

- Dave


----------



## Guest

I just picked up a TC3... actually traded for my TA04. It has had minimal setup done to it, it had ran only once. As of right now it has white springs & 70wt up front & purple & 50wt out back... that's it. My question... what would be a good setup for Larry's track? Camber, toe, link position, shocks position, etc. What color foams... I was thinking either plaids and purples or dbl purple and lime. I'd like a fairly easy to drive setup to get me used to the car... then step it up as I get comfortable. Also, what gearing for a P2K2? Thanks.


----------



## Dan the Man

*Just one tweak...*

Okay, I'm not the greatest driver, and if we had more people racing in West Nowheresville I'd be in the B-main. But I made a setup change today that bought me a whole 'nother lap before the buzzer went... 

I cinched down the front diff.

Before, the car would dive really nice into turns but would just push all day long on the way out. With the diff locked up, putting power on hauls the nose around and gets the car pointed in the right direction.

For the sake of reference, this is on a really rough and fairly high-traction parking lot.


----------



## TRL

*Walter Henderson*

HI Walter

I was just wondering since your rubeer tire set-up worked so well for me if you could tell me a set-up for foams.

I will be running on a 60 x 60 tight tight indoor carpet track with no sweepers and alot of 180's!And the track tends to be a little bumpy as it's not a permanent track!

Thanks if you can help me out!:thumbsup:


----------



## walterhenderson

Front
70 wt/#2 / yellow
f+2 6* castor blocks
rear tower middle hole/ outer hole on arm
links high and long
bud's 078 sway bar
2* camber/ 1*toe out
Jaco purple orange
Rear
60 wt /#2 / copper
F block in place of r block / 3+0
middle hole on tower/ outer hole on arm
links high and long
no sway bar
2* camber
Jaco purples
Battery foward
Protoform stratus 2.0


----------



## Guest

walterhenderson... interesting you live in Gaylord. My fiancees family lives up there. I didn't know touring cars were all that big up there. I know there's a bit of an off-road crowd, but haven't heard anything about TC's. Where do you usually run? Maybe one weekend when I'm up there, I'll drop by for a looksee (if you race on weekends). 

A noob question... why run a rear shock tower up front? I have heard of many people doing this, but I think a few of them (at least a few I have asked) are doing it because everyone else is and have no actual idea why. Camber link or shock placement reasons?


----------



## Rich Chang

Shock placement -- you are able to stand the shocks up more vertical. The camber link positions are in the same spots.

However, with the new style front lower arms (have the extra shock mounting hole) you can also keep the shock angle the same as if you used the stock front shock tower and the old style lower arm, but you get better leverage since the mount point is farther out on the arm.


----------



## Guest

So, by standing the front shocks up more it would give more steering on the exit of the corner, when getting back into the power? 

I don't know what that means actually. I'm still trying to get a good overall feel for the car, let alone how it feels on the entrance and exit of a corner. I'm happy just to get around the corner:lol:


----------



## Tempest2000

here is a site that someone put me onto and if you already no just disregard it... Has just about all the basics on tuning a 4wd... in simple terms that most people are able to grasp the concepts... here it is... check out the chassis setup guide. They also have setups from various events.

www.mpowered-racing.com


----------



## TRL

Walter

Thanks alot for the info,Where should I Start with the droop I was thinking like 41/2 front and 4 in teh rear


----------



## walterhenderson

I run 5 in front and 4 1/2 in the rear

also i use losi steering knuckles


----------



## rayhuang

Walter-have you run the Krypton motors and what do you think? Will it be a great 12th scale motor?

Thanks,
Ray


----------



## Aaron Bomia

Is that based off of your AE droop gauge? I want to know how much lift you have...



walterhenderson said:


> *I run 5 in front and 4 1/2 in the rear
> 
> also i use losi steering knuckles *


----------



## walterhenderson

Ray, they make alot of power with there larger comm and laydown brushes. I think the comm is too large for 1/12th scale.

Aaron, yep. You should know by now i have no lift!!!:roll:


----------



## Aaron Bomia

I have to admit, your method of not "lifting" has proven very successful recently. I'll have to try that this weekend. 



walterhenderson said:


> *Aaron, yep. You should know by now i have no lift!!!:roll: *


----------



## Guest

Walt Henderson-
What is the difference for you with the Losi hubs?


----------



## mattgar99

How are people mounting there BRP wings to the side of the chassis? when u used the screws and nuts that come with it the nut gets in the way of the battery on the side of the batt. so how are ppl mounting these things?


----------



## goldmonkey

mattgar99 said:


> How are people mounting there BRP wings to the side of the chassis? when u used the screws and nuts that come with it the nut gets in the way of the battery on the side of the batt. so how are ppl mounting these things?


 Just put the nut's to the outside of the chassis, so the smooth head of the screw is toward the battery. I moved my battery over so I just put the foam padding over the screw head's. Hope this help's.
Anybody got any set-up idea's for smooth outdoor asphalt with Takeoff 22's on. Running Barry's setup from the asphalt nat's. last year right now. Work's great but there is alway's room for improvement. 
Later.....Hank :wave:


----------



## rayhuang

*BRP wings!!*

You mount the button heads in on the battery side and the nuts in on the motor side!!! 

Those little puppies are gonna save you a lot of broken parts!!!


----------



## Micro_Racer

Quick question:

Racing a TC3 on smooth carpet, what are the best front block carriers to have:
Front Block Carriers 0 Degree
Front Block Carriers 2 Degree
Front Block Carriers 4 Degree

And how do the different carriers make the car handle?
Thanks


----------



## mike_Webb

Smooth High Traction... I ran F+2 and 4 degree castor at Snowbirds... was running the F+0 but found I could roll through the corners better with the F+2.


----------



## Dan the Man

mattgar99 said:


> How are people mounting there BRP wings to the side of the chassis? when u used the screws and nuts that come with it the nut gets in the way of the battery on the side of the batt. so how are ppl mounting these things?


I glued mine on with a generous quantity of Shoe Goo. You've got to do this the day before you go racing so it can cure...

The wide rear bumper looks great with the kit bodies, but I just tried the Pro-Line GT40 body and the bumper kind of hangs out the back...
.


----------



## rowle1jt

Yeah, like everyone else said.  Button heads to the battery, I covered the button heads with a small piece of electrical tape, the tape is black and blends right in with the chassis, you can't even see it. 

Dan, did I understand you right? You used ONLY shoo goo and no screws? Even letting it cure, it seems like a mild hit would pull them off? Just curious, thanks. :tongue: I use the wide rear bumper, but it doesn't stick out of a Stratus. Tell me you don't race with a GT40?  LoL


----------



## SecretSquirrel

Micro_Racer said:


> Quick question:
> 
> Racing a TC3 on smooth carpet, what are the best front block carriers to have:
> Front Block Carriers 0 Degree
> Front Block Carriers 2 Degree
> Front Block Carriers 4 Degree
> 
> And how do the different carriers make the car handle?
> Thanks


You will have to figure out what works best for you on your own, but the caster blocks and the F block affect caster. The more caster you have the more turn IN you will have, but at the cost of steering coming OUT of the corner. The effects of the blocks and F block (holds front hinge pins in) are cumulative. So, if you run a F+2 and 2 deg blocks, you have 4 degrees of caster. 

The place to start is to figure out if you have enough steering going into the corner. If the car is pushing, try more caster. I run 4 degree blocks and the F-0 front block. That is 4 degrees of caster.

I am not sure what Walter Henderson is running at the moment, but his setup is posted on this thread if you go back through the earlier posts.

SS


----------



## rayhuang

SS-when you say more caster = more turn in-Are you assuming that more caster means a higher or lower numerical figure IN other words-in your explanation is more caster 4 or 6 degrees??

Thanks,
Ray


----------



## Rich Chang

Caster.. Ugh.. this is one area of chassis setup that is pretty grey. Caster differs between 2-wheel drive vehicles (like offroad buggies and 1/12th scale) and 4-wheel drive vehicles) like our touring cars -- to the point that they are opposite between the two types.

In general, by theory for _touring car_ is that more caster (ie: 6 deg versus 0 deg) smoothes out high speed steering (ie: how sensitive the car is around center on a the straight) and gives more turn-in and less exit. This goes with what Squirrel said above. However, "feel wise" on the track I gain exit and on-power steering. Why? I dunno.

Anyways, the amount of total caster is also affected by how much kick-up is run (this adjusted with the F+0 and F+2 blocks on the TC3). Kick-up affects caster by adding more when you run the F+2 block (if you run it with the 4 deg C-hubs you have a total of 6 deg caster) and it also affects the front suspension. Since the lower arms are angled up with the front of the arm higher than the rear, the car will go over bumps better (like kick-up on an off-road vehicle -- that is why they run 10 - 20 deg of kick-up on off-road buggies). 

The caster on Walt's car depends on whether he is running anti-dive up front or not. When he is running anti-dive, he is around 4 degrees of caster with 6 deg Losi C-hubs and the F+2 block.

Anyways, the whole thing with caster is how it affect weight jacking. I'm terrible at explaining this stuff so hopefully someone else can explain it.

I pretty much stopped thinking about the specifics (especially since it varies by car type) and just make a change in caster and see how it feels.

-Rich


----------



## Aaron Bomia

Man, you lost me with that explanation. I'm going to quit racing.

:jest:


----------



## Dan the Man

rowle1jt said:


> Dan, did I understand you right? You used ONLY shoo goo and no screws? Even letting it cure, it seems like a mild hit would pull them off? Just curious, thanks. :tongue: I use the wide rear bumper, but it doesn't stick out of a Stratus. Tell me you don't race with a GT40?  LoL


The Shoe Goo works great. One of them finally came off after a few months of racing but gluing it back on was trivial. And plenty of the hits I've taken are way more than "mild".

As for the GT40, I got sick of seeing all these boring pill-shaped sedans. Unfortunately I screwed up the paint so I don't think I'll bring it out in public.  But I'm going to buy another one.


----------



## BenPuterbaugh

The caster will also change the camber gain; more caster=more camber for a given steer angle; and I agree that people seem to have different opinions on whether it conforms to theory. The camber gain may explain why it can hurt or help a car, depending on the roll stiffness, damping, static camber are other variables from car to car that react with the camber gain. What it all comes down to is your car and your track and what works for you.


----------



## Dan the Man

FWIW, I raced the GT40 body yesterday and it didn't seem to change much, driving-wise. A new set of tires made a much bigger difference. It looked OK after I decaled it up, and it sure is a nice change in look from the Stratus I had.

Down with pill-shaped sedans! :freak:


----------



## TRL

*set-ups*

Hey guys just trying to get more info.

I was reading all the info at the about the carpet nats and just was curious if it's true or not.

I heard the A/e guys were back to the original steering racks and not the the ntc3 steering?

I also saw Mike Blackstock's set-up posted already and noticed he was running original front tower up front,not the rear?

I think that's it..now i know that alot of it is driver preference,but anyone care to shed some light for me? :thumbsup: 

Maybe Walter could help out  or Mike or anyone lol!!


----------



## Tempest2000

I have a few questions on milling the chassis slots for the batteries. 1. How far should I move the batteries over. 2. How do you still run the batteries in the back slot with the batteries moved towards the drive shaft. It looks like the batteries will hit the rear bearing drive shaft brace??? Would I have to file on the existing battery slots to move the batteries far enough forward to get in font of the brace w/o moving them all the way to the front slots???
thanks
Michael


----------



## SecretSquirrel

I believe almost everyone runs their batteries in the forward slots for more steering so it is not an issue.

SS


----------



## rowle1jt

Yeah, I have always seen people use the forward slots.


----------



## Tempest2000

rowle1jt said:


> Yeah, I have always seen people use the forward slots.


well I run a spool in modified and run the batteries back. If I get anyMORE steering I'll be able to turn 180's on a dime with change to spare LOL so are most people that do this mod not running a spool? and has anyone see Joshes car??? I thought he said he ran his batteries back in mod touring as well??? 
thanks again


----------



## Greg Anthony

Tempest2000 said:


> well I run a spool in modified and run the batteries back. If I get anyMORE steering I'll be able to turn 180's on a dime with change to spare LOL so are most people that do this mod not running a spool? and has anyone see Joshes car??? I thought he said he ran his batteries back in mod touring as well???
> thanks again


most people were going with the stock shock tower in the front and a heavier front sway bar...


----------



## Tempest2000

Greg Anthony said:


> most people were going with the stock shock tower in the front and a heavier front sway bar...


thanks I'll try a heavier sway bar... any other info with people who are running a spool? maybe a basic setup with it. I'm just wondering if I have my springs too light or shock oil is wrong. The car is pretty fast under power, but if you let up at all it won't turn into the corners. purple front copper rear 60 oil front and rear. Stock front sway bar on it now... none on the rear. droop with an integy guage is 2 in the front and 1 in the back. Can anyone give me a suggestion as to where to go from here???


----------



## mattgar99

*quantum competition*

i have just purchased a quantum competition speedo and was wondering is it necessary to put the diode on the motor?


----------



## Cain

Hey All,

i just picked up a used TC3 and will be going through it as soon as it comes in. I have had touring cars before, most recently a XXX-S and got it working well and I am looking forward to the TC3. 

Now, to the questions:

1) what graphite hopups do you recommend? I am leaning towards getting the chassis and shock towers, maybe arms but not the carriers.

2) I have orders all the BRP protection stuff (front & rear bumpers, wings). Anything else that protects the car I should get.

3) I probably will be running a chameleon 19T or a street spec motor. What is a good pinion range to start with (ie- 24, 25, 26) .

4) I will be running foam tires indoors, purples in the rear plaids up front. whats a good starting spring setup, I will be running 60 weight oil.

Thanks!


:thumbsup:


----------



## spaz456

cain- what track do you race at?

your at a good starting point for tires. if you go 60wt oil all around you may find the front end turns in too agressivly, but it will depend on what spring and pistons. a good set up for the shocks is white spring/80wt front/ purple springs 60wt rear, #3 pistons all around. for droop a good starting point on the tc3 is 6 in the front 4 in the rear.

definately get all the graphite stuff, especially for carpet w/ foams. if any thing the chassis and arms.

i dont run 19turn so can be of any help there.


----------



## Tommygun43

*Speed control*

Guys, I know this has probably already been brought up in this
thread at least once already but I couldn't find it. I am just
curious what your opinion is of the best touring car speed
control. Could you please list a few. I will buy the best
that I can afford. Thanks!

*For stock racing.

Tom


----------



## Aaron Bomia

I prefer LRP products, like a Quantum, but Novak is great too. It all depends on your budget though.



Tommygun43 said:


> Guys, I know this has probably already been brought up in this
> thread at least once already but I couldn't find it. I am just
> curious what your opinion is of the best touring car speed
> control. Could you please list a few. I will buy the best
> that I can afford. Thanks!
> 
> *For stock racing.
> 
> Tom


----------



## Cain

I run at manchester hobbies.

The topp driver doesn't run any droop screws in his TC3, and he is wicked fast. I did the same in my losi and it worked great.

As for too much turn in, I actually like driving with a lot of turn in, so that will be a good thing  My car should be here Tuesday, so I will sit down and tear her apart and see whats what. 

How strong are the graphite arms? I will have all the BRP protection stuff on the car. I may get a graphite chassis and the aluminum shaft, anything else you can recommend?

Thanks!


----------



## Fast_TC3

*Does anyone know how to get the most out of the TC 3?*

Does anyone KNOW? 
I have a TC3 that is pretty fast, it was a regular tc3 not the team car. But i converted it over to it except for the heat sink and the battery bar. I have a Trinty Monster Horse Revenge and use a 3000 match 6cell pack. i believe the track is a 42 ft straight ways and im guessing maybe 4 foot turns at that.. anyways we figured out that its better to use the 64 pitch spur and pinion gears. I was able to turn extremely low 3.0 sec laps and even quite a few 2.9 second laps which is flat getting with it. It is as fast as the pancars at the track. My TC3 co-holds the track record for most laps at 94 in 5minutes. Is there any other tuning that can be done to reach possibably 96 or more? If so please post or email me at [email protected]


----------



## THE DARKSIDE

Does anybody have any experience and/or recomendations regarding the usage of the NTC3 steering system on the TC3. I'm thinking about doing this modifications but am still on the fence about it.


----------



## goldmonkey

*NTC rack*

Darkside, I installed the ntc rack on my car a couple month's ago. Seemed a tick smoother at the time, but last week we started our outdoor asphalt season on rubber tires and I ran really bad. Changed back to the stock chassis, had the batteries moved in the other one, went to the stock rack and ran second in the A-main at another asphalt track this past Sat. Also at the Snowbird's, I noticed that Barry Baker had the stock steering on his car. Best upgrade is good ball cup's and stuff to keep as much slop out of the steering as you can.
Later......Hank :wave:


----------



## BenPuterbaugh

THE DARKSIDE said:


> Does anybody have any experience and/or recomendations regarding the usage of the NTC3 steering system on the TC3. I'm thinking about doing this modifications but am still on the fence about it.


I have done it, and I think it has too much ackerman if done with the stock suspension. The car turned really weird. It worked a lot better with the rest of the NTC3 stuff .


----------



## Dan the Man

BenPuterbaugh said:


> I have done it, and I think it has too much ackerman if done with the stock suspension. The car turned really weird. It worked a lot better with the rest of the NTC3 stuff .


I gotta know how you did that, because I've been thinking of trying something similar. But the suspension mounting holes are all wrong. Did you just drill another set?

Hardcore sells a titanium chassis kit that lets you do the same thing...


----------



## BenPuterbaugh

I just narrowed the Nitro a-arms to fit the stock suspension mounting points. Then open up the holes on the mounting brackets for the nitro pins, cut the lower pins to fit, chop off the outer parts of the front upper and lower arms(cut between the two shock mounting holes). do the same in the back, also drill the pivot ball holes through front and rear. Use the nitro rear arm mount with the toe links on it. Dremel a little shock clearance as well.
It's kinda nice to have complete toe control in the back. With plastic CVDs, graphite, heavy body, 57 mm foams and steel pivot balls it comes in at 53 1/2 oz, which is close to the new ROAR rules, but way off of the 50-51 oz run around here. I think the Ti Pivot balls would take an ounce off, and so would a GT7 or LRP esc, PT 1/2 ounce, and maybe a 1/4-1/2 oz with a light body, after that more weight can be dremeled off the shock towers and arms.


----------



## Dan the Man

BenPuterbaugh said:


> ...chop off the outer parts of the front upper and lower arms(cut between the two shock mounting holes). do the same in the back, also drill the pivot ball holes through front and rear.


I hadn't realized there was a track width difference between the two cars til I read this, but the nitro car is 200mm. Hmmm...

Did you just use the kit CVDs and axles? And what's the story with the turnbuckle on the bumper?


----------



## BenPuterbaugh

Same CVDs. The turnbuckle was a short lived attempt to prevent my RPM bumper from dragging in front of the car, it's seen better days, I don't hit stuff often but when I do its usually the cut the corner short and slam the board head on variety.


----------



## SecretSquirrel

Ben,

Are you coming up to Hobby Hub (Lansing) this weekend or Hobby Stop Raceway (Toledo) next weekend? I would like to see this car in person.

SS


----------



## Dan the Man

Ben - thanks. I gotta try this... I've already ordered a bunch of parts.

I figure I've ordered about 1/3 the car at about 1/2 the price. :-D


----------



## BenPuterbaugh

SecretSquirrel said:


> Ben,
> 
> Are you coming up to Hobby Hub (Lansing) this weekend or Hobby Stop Raceway (Toledo) next weekend? I would like to see this car in person.
> 
> SS


Yes I am planning on coming up to Lansing this weekend. Unfortunately I just put the c hub stuff back on last night as that setup is much faster now. The PB setup isn't there yet(it TQd and won last week but second place car should have had both), mostly just lack of time with it, but also the weight(which will take time & $$ to get rid of). I'll have the parts with me though.

Dan- Let me know when you get the parts and I can send you or post the dimensions for the cuts.


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## Dan the Man

BenPuterbaugh said:


> Dan- Let me know when you get the parts and I can send you or post the dimensions for the cuts.


Thanks. Hobby store says about half the parts I asked for are back-orderd - wonder which half? :freak: (We have a new LHS here in Ridgecrest, run by racers, and I'm trying to give them as much support as I can.)

For arms, carriers and towers I ordered the full carbon kit - I figure I can sell the unneeded parts around here somewhere.

How did you go about cutting down the arms? Razor saw? Dremel?


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## Dan the Man

I've started on my hybrid. My plan is to do the rear first, get it sorted, and then do the front, which is more complicated.

The rear is almost done. I just need to drill down the pillow ball holes. I can hardly believe how strong the nitro parts are. They would make a fantastic basis for a buggy, much better than the electric suspension. But I'll save that for the next project.

I'm a little worried about how much I had to cut down the arms to fit them in the space available. On the back part of the arm, the strong part is completely gone and the flange is holding on the rest. I think I'll try to reinforce it somehow. I think I have some Kevlar tow around here somewhere...

Anyone need a graphite handle, radio tray, and braces for the nitro car?


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## BenPuterbaugh

Dan the Man said:


> I'm a little worried about how much I had to cut down the arms to fit them in the space available. On the back part of the arm, the strong part is completely gone and the flange is holding on the rest. I think I'll try to reinforce it somehow. I think I have some Kevlar tow around here somewhere...
> 
> ?


Dan,
I don't think you should have to worry about the strength, I have hammered some stuff and not so much as a bent pivot ball and that was in the front. Remember the nitro stuff is meant to hold up a car that is substantially heavier and much faster than the ETC3.


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## Dan the Man

The project was stalled for lack of ball cups. Thought I had 'em or I wouldn't have started! I've been spending the evening lowering my T3 so I have something to race tomorrow.

My main concern now is that things didn't line up. The upper arm's pivot ball comes out about 1/8" ahead of the lower. I'm wondering if it will be a problem geometry-wise.


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## BenPuterbaugh

Shouldn't really. Except for the wheelbase effect, I made sure equal amounts were cut off front and rear. You can line the new a-arm up with the standard using the droop screw holes to see how to cut them.


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## Dan the Man

BenPuterbaugh said:


> Shouldn't really. Except for the wheelbase effect, I made sure equal amounts were cut off front and rear. You can line the new a-arm up with the standard using the droop screw holes to see how to cut them.


Is *that* how you measured it? That works in the front, but in the rear it will move the wheels forward about 1/8-1/4", which is not only a dramatic change in wheelbase but will move the CG aft.

And that's also why I've got the rear hub carriers leaning forward - I was aiming to keep the wheelbase the same. Hmm...


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## Dan the Man

Despite a great many distractions, I finished putting the NTC3 rear end on the car and will race it tomorrow. I'll report back what I think.


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## Dan the Man

Works fine. Maybe a little less steering. Hard to say without having driven the beastie for a month. I took third due to some wrecks.


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## Syphon

*Milled Chassis Outdoors*

Just wondering what everyone thought about them. Did everyone like the way the cars felt? 
Thanks
Doug


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## Dan the Man

Mine still needs work. The NTC3 suspension moves the shocks inboard, and it's going to require a stronger spring. As it is now, it pushes bad on-power, and hooks off-power. Like a @#$% pan car fer cryin out loud.


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## Guest

*drivetrain in tc3*

is the niftech drivetrain worth the money? i am using all ae parts but i have been looking at the buyers guide from rccar action. the niftech set is about $400.00 total. also what is a good brand of rubber tire to use. i am in florida so the climate is generally warm? :drunk:


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## Rich Chang

I unfortunately purchased the entire Niftech drive train (except for their bearings). The only thing I still have in my car is their titanium center drive shaft. I had problems with their diffs and their drive cups (ie: for the center drive shaft) were heavier than the stock cups. Also, the Schumacher blades worked better than the expensive Niftech axle saver things.

For tires, I highly recommend using the Takeoff pre-assembled CS-27 tires for your TC3 outdoors. Schumacher imports the Takeoff tires and since you are from Florida (which is where they are at) you are all set. 

-Rich


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## Guest

*thanks for the info*

thanks for the info im actually running cs27's already just didnt know if there was anything better


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## Guest

*titanium drive shaft*

do you notice a difference in the drive shaft. does the niftech one shave any time off your laps or are the guys with the blue or graphite shafts just as fast?


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## Brant

*TC3 wheels bearings*

have to order some wheel bearing for my TC3. I'm at work and the car is at home. Does anyone know the size? 3/16 by 3/8?


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## RoadBuggy

If you mean the wheel axle bearings, then:

6906 - 3/16 X 3/8 for FT Teflon-sealed, and
3977 - 3/16 X 3/8 for racer kits.


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## rowle1jt

This is what towerhobbies.com lists as replacement sizes:




Code:


           [b] Qty.        Size            Location          [/b]
             2      3/16" x 5/16"    short hub 
             4      3/8"  x 5/8"     outdrive assembly 
             4      3/16" x 3/8"     rear input shaft  
             4      3/16" x 3/8"     steering blocks   
             4      3/16" x 3/8"     rear hub carriers


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## Brant

*TC3 wheel bearings*

Thanks guys for your responses. I didn't think to look at Tower Hobbies website. I ordered the bearings from www.teambluestar.com. The last ones I bought from them seemed to be of high quality. They were much better than the Duratrax ones I bought.


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## Tommygun43

*Black Top set up*

Does anyone have a hot set up for black top on CS27's?
I'm thinking of getting a xxx-s because there are a couple
factory drivers that are running them and can help me
with the set up on those. But I figured I would try to
see if you guys could help before I go buy a losi.


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## patcollins

Anyone know where I can get a top brace that covers the drive shaft and that doesnt get in the way on a chassis that has had the batteries moved inward toward the center?


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## goodnplenty

as a matter of fact i have two chasis (complete) for sale


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## goodnplenty

or are you looking for just a the piece that goes from front to back


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## patcollins

Just looking for a top brace


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## Mr. Warpspeed

*WARPSPEED upperplate*



patcollins said:


> Anyone know where I can get a top brace that covers the drive shaft and that doesnt get in the way on a chassis that has had the batteries moved inward toward the center?


WARPSPEED RACING has an upperplate. You can contact 
WARPSPEED RACING at [email protected]

Victor Franco
WARPSPEED RACING
When you're ready to get serious!


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## scaryfast

*TC3 conversions*

does anybody use the rally conversion for the cold season. There is an indoor offroad track that I would like to run this winter. I have seen a website where the guy was having some success with a TC3 stadium truck conversion. I am hope to run a rally car with the buggies if the track officials let me in. :lol:


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## gibbo

i have a electric tc3.
is electric 190
and 200 nitro?
trying to buy a body and not sure which size.


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## RoadBuggy

gibbo said:


> i have a electric tc3.
> is electric 190
> and 200 nitro?
> trying to buy a body and not sure which size.


yes, electric TC3 = 190mm, nitro TC3 = 200mm.


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## ctrlfreak

Where are you guys running? I'm in Colorado and the only track is MHOR... Too far from me... I would parking lot race if I knew where? Any help? I'm running a XXX-S Graphite and a Team TC3


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## ctrlfreak

I'm new here, and might be in the wrong place... Sorry if this is the case...


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## THE DARKSIDE

ctrlfreak said:


> Where are you guys running? I'm in Colorado and the only track is MHOR... Too far from me... I would parking lot race if I knew where? Any help? I'm running a XXX-S Graphite and a Team TC3


HobbytownUSA in Fort Collins, Every Sunday, nearly 100 entries and a well run program


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## ctrlfreak

Fort Collins is way North of me, I wonder what the Westminster and Lakewood stores are doing... Would even be fun just to get a few local people together for a street or lot race... If there is anybody lookin to race 10th scale elec. TC, hit me up... I have some friends that are tryin to get started again, hopefully they can get built up soon... I'm in Denver...


Right on,

[email protected]


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## THE DARKSIDE

The HobbyTown's in both Westminster and Lakewood also parking lot race almost every weekend. Not sure about the crowd, but I know it is decend. 

If you have any questions, feel free to contact me at [email protected]

Eric Dimmick
Darkside Motorsports


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## gt3911

Hey all,

Lots of good info here. 

I'm setting up my 2nd tc for the current one to become a spare car. I run 27turn stock, so i'm using the lightweight diffs however i have 4 diffs, 2 are the black bevel gears, and the other 2 are a kind of white looking gear. Just wondering if anyone can say 'yeh its cool they just changed for a period of time' or if you'd say 'wow red flag dont use that'

Also, a small quick question, my manual which came with my early release tc3 says you need to loosen the diff bold 1/4 turn, the newer manual says 1/2 turn. I'd imagine the 1/2turn to be best as they must of changed it in the manual for some reason! 

I noticed the light weight diffs have a bushing in them, is it often the choice to find a bearing to fit? 

and finally you guys generally run your diffs front and rear the same 'tightness'?

Thanks


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## ghoulardi

*diffs*

The plastic outdrives can be overtightened to almost spool quality. That's what I use when I want a spool. If you put the bearings in the plastic outdrives they won't work because they're too thick. The diff will just slip.
I run my front diff slightly tighter than the rear. On concrete I prefer a one -way. Way more corner speed.


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## walterhenderson

The black diff gears are what the 1st gears were. Then there was a durabilty problem so AE changed to the white(ish) gears. They hold up much better.
AE does make bearings to fit the molded diffs,Part #3916. And yes they are better than the bushings.
The standard setting is 1/2 turn out from snug(don't overtighten). Normally I run the front a little than the rear.

Hope this helps, 
Walter


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## gt3911

Hey thanks,

Walt, you said 'normally i run the front a little than the rear'

a little what? i think you said it in your head but didnt type it  tighter? slacker?

Could you explain to me how you use the diff to control handeling? for example 'if the car is doing X then i make Y tighter'

thanks all


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## RcCzarOfOld

A little tighter than the rear.


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## gt3911

RcCzarOfOld said:


> A little tighter than the rear.


with foams on carpet?


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## RcCzarOfOld

Yeah definitely with foams on carpet. If it's a tight track like CEFX, you want it quite tight actually. Almost like a spool..


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## gt3911

Cool, Thanks for the information.

Just to make things a bit clearer, what is a tight diff? lets try and do this by the TC3 manaul. After you've felt the spring is compressed how much of a turn will you slacken it off to have a tight diff? 

And the opposite way, on the rear, how much of a turn would you go if you was racing stock 27t's 1/2 like the book says or more?


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## RcCzarOfOld

Ya know, I'm not sure on the actual number of turns out or in or whatever.. I just tighten or loosen it until it feels right.


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## gt3911

lol well in that case, i guess i better fly over to your neck of the woods and have you feel my diff! LOL

Maybe the next time you rebuild a diff you can pay attention to how many turns it takes until it 'feels right'


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## RcCzarOfOld

Oh man... I don't know about that.. That would require effort and like counting and stuff


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## ghoulardi

I have a diff setting tool that is just a u shape w/2 pins sticking up on each end that you set the outdrive slots in. Then you can spin the ring gear to see how tight or loose the diff is. I got it w/a couple of diffs on e-bay but im sure someone knows where you can get one.


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## THE DARKSIDE

ghoulardi said:


> I have a diff setting tool that is just a u shape w/2 pins sticking up on each end that you set the outdrive slots in. Then you can spin the ring gear to see how tight or loose the diff is. I got it w/a couple of diffs on e-bay but im sure someone knows where you can get one.


Niftech I believe


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## walterhenderson

gt3911 said:


> Cool, Thanks for the information.
> 
> Just to make things a bit clearer, what is a tight diff? lets try and do this by the TC3 manaul. After you've felt the spring is compressed how much of a turn will you slacken it off to have a tight diff?
> 
> And the opposite way, on the rear, how much of a turn would you go if you was racing stock 27t's 1/2 like the book says or more?


 I would consider a tight diff to be 1/4 turn out. A good starting point is 1/4 turn out on the front diff and 3/8ths to 1/2 turn on the rear diff depending on what you are running (stock or mod,tighter for mod)

Hope this helps,
Walter


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## gt3911

Cool thanks,

I figured I'd post my setup, for the aid of other drivers or for feedback.

Tight Carpet track - 27turn
FT TC3
Dodge Stratus 3 'carpet' shell.

Front:
60wt oil
Yellow springs 
Parma PSE Cyan foams
5mm droop
roll bar
2deg kickup 2deg caster
0deg toe in/out
5mm ride height
Standard camber link locations
outside hole on the front shock tower

Rear:
40wt oil
Red springs
Parma PSE Magenta foams
5mm droop
Anti roll bar
2deg toe in 2deg anti squat
5mm ride height
Standard camber link locations
Inside hole on the rear shock tower

Steel diffs.

Also with an IRS chassis with the same setup but light weight diffs, I use RPM rod ends, full polished hinge pins.. and a fastrax centre shaft, however i'm questioning this, its seems a very tight fit. I might shim it to releave the tension (front to back) as it seems its pushing on the diffs to hard i'm thinking i'd prefer it to be looser to allow the car to be more free.


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## ScarecrowMantis

Sounds like a plan. I have an electric TC3 that a friend wants to build a lithium battery set for. I've also been thinking of converting it to brushless. Any recommendations for a brushless set that would handle the long run time of the lithium power source?


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