# Another opinion-



## boss9 (Apr 19, 2002)

Hello-

Since this board is based on free thoughts and opinions, (like it or not) I’ll share mine:

Hobby talk used to be a great place to gather and exchange ideas and show off ones’ work- if creating customs or a track layout, plus the ideas and camaraderie was unsurpassed.

This is no longer the case.

The newer (and not so new) “members”:

Recently the board has become a showcase for sellers pushing their wares akin to a barker’s pulpit at a carnival.

These individuals have taken it upon themselves to "showcase" their items in any forum they choose--no matter what the item happens to be. 
The swap and sell section is avoided like the plague by said individuals- they post where most eyes have been focused. 
“Sell-sell-sell”….

They have also bickered amongst themselves—with “who made what or who has the better product”—sometimes never giving credit to whom actually made the piece in the very first place- A shame and discredit to the original manufacturer. They have even started name calling- 
It’s the “I love me-who do you like?” syndrome...

Some will conveniently add their remark in a post, but subtly include their selling items, just hoping that one more potential buyer will bite-

Then we have the ones who won’t make something because someone else already has…(afraid of a loss of revenue, perhaps?)
Or the ones who throw a hissy-fit from constructive criticism and say they will take their wares elsewhere.…only to return, knowing they’ll make money if they stay. 
Then their “politeness” is turned on and any remarks towards their product ignored in favor of the end result—more cash to take.

If this is not about money.…well I just don’t know-

And lets’ not forget the individuals who push their opinions upon you until you relent and (if even true), must claim their "connections", their multiple acquirements, and their garages stuffed with the best of the best—Does this give them more creditability? 
You be the judge-

How many of these so-called “friendly” “all-around” members post on anything else besides what effects their sales, or to pull another buyer in, or to endlessly prove a point?

Before all this, we had some casters making stuff, finishing it off and showcasing their work in the (proper) customs forum with nary a word of selling. If you had an interest, you could PM them or visit their web-site. Simple and very considerate-

Not anymore…

AW:

I give T.L. due respect for trying to keep the slot world happy and recruit new interest from the masses. (Albeit with someone elses original ideas- for the most part, and at least releasing a whole car with package.)

I also thank Deane for trying in making an “official” AW camera thread (why it has not become a “sticky” is anyone’s guess.)
It's sad to see what others twisted it in to....

I was never that much “into” slots, per-se-

Dad bought me a set in the early sixties and that perked my interest. 
Following the years ahead, I, like many- went with models and the bigger slots (set up at dedicated raceways, hobby shops and even pool halls). 
Once this fad waned, I got in to mini-bikes, go-karts, motorbikes and on to muscle cars, etc.

Slot cars stayed with me and were always (and still are.…to a point) a release for me from the hectic day-to-day world. But I still view it as a hobby and not “rocket science”, nor near the most important part of my life-

Remembering (which was said by another mem’ here,) Auto World- as “the” catalog to have- with everything from models and parts, to slot cars and spares with an abundance of stuff and info, in between-- rings the same with me-

I was fortunate to visit Auto World’s store in Scranton, a few months before they closed the doors. It was like a dream come true—huge amounts of product, friendly staff, and a wealth of information. I bought a lot of stuff from them, that day- and at retail prices…

For TL to use the name to try and recapture those memories by just selling his slots, etc, just doesn’t do it for me-

The fact he has “friends” in the board moderators doesn’t surprise me he gets his own forum, either-

Tempting the public with fuzzy camera shots, false release claims and building the hype with gimmicks- such as “club-cars”, “specials” and/or “collector” packaging, is much proof to me that his slot car enthusiasm stems from making as much profit as he can, and not really seeing to the enthusiast’s/hobbyist's needs. 

As does his blatant use (as others do) of other manufacturer’s products and calling them “new releases”. He’ll cut corners just to stay below the legal copyright and license fees—as RRR, and others do, here. (This part is not new, as he’s been down that road, before.)

I understand the need for the “bang for the buck” in the master mold production, but he’s past the limitations with the re-copying of the re-copying of the re-pops. 
And now we get “new” Tycos?

He is purely a business man who’s “hobby” is collecting Jefferson’s, Franklin’s, and Lincoln’s. 
I’m quite sure the die-cast side meant more to him than the slots ever will…

I bought several dozen cases of the earlier “newer” cars through on-line sellers, mail order, and (rarely) the “bay”. I don’t regret one single purchase-
even though the “specials” and “club only” releases were blown out near the end, along with the entire remaining inventory he (did or) didn’t buy.

But I have enough to keep me satisfied for many years to come, thank you.

The Hobby talk board:

With work commitments, my Fam’, and just other projects, I have posted little in the last six months, but tried to visit and read Hobby-talk every day.

Now it’s become a “chore” to do so, with so much un-hobby like views, attitudes, salesmen’s “one up-man-ship” and disrespect.
I suspect many of the old regulars feel the same way, and don’t post much anymore, either.

My oldest girl is becoming proficient in reading and liked to sit on my lap and try to read me the new posts.
With the name calling, dissin’ of one-another, and now the swearing/cursing--this has become undoable. 
This has become the norm' (to a point), because the moderator('s) have little interest in slot cars, as a whole-

Thanks a lot, you few…


And some threads turn into arguments of the most miniscule matters pertaining to this “hobby”, overall-
This is not to say some of the info’ put forth is worthless…if handled smoothly and in moderation- 
Some have shown great interest in this type of new science. That’s always a good thing. 

But, flog a dead horse?
It’s more akin to frappe’-ing the poor steed like the ‘”Bass-O-matic” on Saturday Night live-

To each, his own, I suppose…

Sure, I’ll still come around now and again, and possibly add a post or two-
Maybe even show a new custom now and again…
(And I try and make most “Chat” sessions-)

I’ve got connected with a good handful of real hobby enthusiasts here and cherish their views and friendships. I will always try and stay in touch with them-

As for all the pompous, self-serving sellers and foul mouths here:
You can keep your stuff (and some of your views)….(Including TL).
You don’t need me—and the feeling is mutual.

I have more super-nice re-pops, custom castings and gifts from my friends here, than I ever could’ve imagined.

I’m glad I was a part of slot-cars (in general) of old, and got (most) all, or more than I needed before the net, the price gouging and the pushy, self-serving sellers- along with some on this board.

That was a time when real manufacturer’s with actual store outlets, inventory, and a dealer network existed. None can claim all three, now-
It was just “normal” buying, collecting and playing with them in those days.
That was truely the "Golden era"...

To this, I say to them:
Good luck in all your endeavors and sales—I hope you make a mint and can retire off your profits-

So, let the cursing, down-trodding, and put-downs begin, on why my post is so terribly wrong- 
Go ahead and have your say- show me to be the fool, with your reasons, proof, calculations, and excuses.
(Too long a' note? Complain about that, too!)


But it won’t much matter-




You have pushed me away in disgust...


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## coach61 (Sep 6, 2004)

standing O Boss....Standing O :thumbsup:


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## buzzinhornet (Jan 20, 2000)

Wow. Is it really that bad? Yes, the "cam thread" has turned into "ugly" but I still think Hobby Talk is the best BBS around. I just let the B.S. slide right on by... 

GP


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## krazcustoms (Nov 20, 2003)

Hmmm.....I would have to say I disagree with about 90% of that, but even so, anyone's opinion should be respected. The only point I really agree on is the bickering that's been going on recently, and I think everyone has had enough of it.

As for AW and Dash, I actually hope they "copy" just about everything that's ever been produced so far. More to customize and play with without being afraid to hack up originals (hey, some of us like to just look at 'em too). In addition to the re-pops, several "new" castings have been introduced into the mix by both companies, and it looks like even more are on the way. I don't like EVERYTHING they make, but I like enough to expect to spend alot of money on them in the future. So what if they're going to make money doing it? I believe Aurora and Tyco were "for-profit" companies, as well as the hobby shops who stocked their products years ago. And if something is available for sale, I don't mind being made aware of it here as long as it's slot related. I think most slotters are happy that these guys are putting forth the capital and taking chances to keep us enjoying what was becoming a stagnant hobby. Thanks to them, the interest is growing.


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## 2.8powerranger (Dec 13, 2004)

Amen! Krazcustoms. And re-pop the g-plus chassis. they've re-popped the cars ,now re-pop the christmas morning t-jet smell!!!!!!!! :thumbsup:


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

> I think most slotters are happy that these guys are putting forth the capital and taking chances to keep us enjoying what was becoming a stagnant hobby. Thanks to them, the interest is growing.


_Was_ is the key word there. :thumbsup:


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## 1scalevolvo (Feb 5, 2004)

As usual Boss9,you shoot from the hip & take No prisoners !
However the best asset this board can ever have is a "car-mudgeon" like yourself to set things straight !
Just keep on truckin !


Neal


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

Hey Boss9, very nice to hear from you again. I miss seeing your customs in the Modeling/Customizing forum. You definitely hit on some of the core issues that have crept into this board. I appreciate your candor, especially in terms of cleaning up the language. I too agree that objectivity is affected when someone has something to sell. This is a major issue on all boards, where you are constantly having to ask "What's this guy selling?" before forming an opinion on a post. But I don't have a problem with people who are on the production side of things having a forum to highlight their new wares. Direct salesmanship and new product announcements however should be confined to the Swap & Sell forum. If that's not the right forum, let's get a "Coming Soon" forum started.

It all comes down to to discretion and respect. We have to police ourselves or we'll end up with a moderator deleting posts and then we'll start descending into the negative abyss that many other boards have become. This is still the best "fun" board on the net and keeping it that way is our collective responsibility.


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## videojimmy (Jan 12, 2006)

I can see where he's coming from. Once I see a thread turn nasty, as some tend to do... I click away and don't return to that thread. 

As for a person or company trying to make a profit by selling the products they've invested tens of thousands of dollars to create, I have no problem with that. 

I don't like waiting for months past the delivery due dates when I preorder stuff though. I don't think I'll be placing anymore preorders unless there's a HUGE discount or give away attached to it. There should be something in it for me if I'm going to float those companies a loan by preordering stuff several months before their product is even released. 

What's funny is that often, a company's preorder prices tend to be higher then the item several months after release. Remember how much people paid for the first few MACH V and Dukes cars that were released? I saw some go for as high as 50 bucks a piece on ebay.... now you can get the same cars for as little as 10 bucks.

I preordered those TOMY Chaparrals from one company, only to find them for 5 dollars cheaper at other stores about 2 weeks after they hit the market. 

I won't be making that mistake anymore ... not as long as there's ebay, the last bastion of pure capitalism left. One just has to be patient, that's all.


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## zanza (Sep 23, 2005)

I tend to generally agree with anything called "another"

Boss, your opinion, titled "another" is full of good sense and candor which is good for the soul

:thumbsup: man


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## boss9 (Apr 19, 2002)

Hello again-

Thank you for having taking the time to read my views and comment on it.

I believe I might had led some down the wrong path with my statements,
Let’s try and clear a few misconceptions, so as not to take anything (replies included) in the wrong light-

First off, I have no derogatory feelings for 97% of the mems’, or anyone who’s replied here, and welcome the differing opinions. That’s the way issues get resolved and a full understanding takes place.

Let’s take the replies as they came:

Coach:
Thank you for the kudos. I have talked to you at length about some points I’d made, and I believe you got the gist of the matter as a whole-

Buzzinhornet:
No argument here- I too concur that HT is the best board available (that’s why I’m sticking around). I am a mem’ of just one other board (not slot related, but still another hobby which I truly enjoy as well).
I studied the other boards and found there just wasn’t enough to perk my interest.

I do wish we didn’t have to let the B.S. just slide by, though. 
I feel something should be done about it.

Krazcustoms:
90% you say? Let’s analyze this and see if we really agree to that-
I read your reply thoroughly and believe I understand all you said.
Please correct me if I’m wrong:
I never claimed that re-popping was a bad thing, or shouldn’t be done. I too enjoy making and seeing customs that all share in the customs forum. 

You mentioned some just like to look at them, too.

I (somewhat) fall into this category, myself. 
When I have 6+ models of the same car, I see no reason just to open them all, unless I have a particular fondness for a certain paint scheme. 
Some customs I’ve received, I feel are a little too fragile to allow me to damage the time and effort a friend put into it for me to enjoy.

I had also stated that “most”- not all, were repops.

Plus, I’d mentioned nothing about investing money or business expenses.
In fact, near the end of my note, I wished them all well in their endeavors.

I also agree that Aurora and Tyco were in it to make money—and they also made their own re-issues of some models.
But you don’t see Life-Like or Mattel, etc, jumping in here at every chance they get, to push their stuff on you. But you know where to find them if you have an interest. That was my basis of the point-

Again, we are in agreement on being notified as to new product. It’s how, when, and where these announcements should be handled along with the consideration of others’ posts and opinions- which is what I was trying to convey- 

The only thing I think I disagree with you on is the hobby being stagnant-
I think these as great times for slot-guys. I don’t think the few I’d singled out above are the do-all-end-all for the hobby, though. 
Yes, they have contributed to the growth (see my commending of T.L. in my opening statement to A.W.), but my belief is that the Internet and the “bay” really opened the gate for more eyes and purchasing power. 

Would the top 3 sellers here be doing this if it weren’t for the net?
For some reason’s, I doubt it…. 

2.8powerranger:
I am on the same page with you, as well….
A new chassis would do wonders for the hobby.
A re-pop would fill the void until something really “new” comes out.
I have quite a few of the pull-backs that could use some power under them.

SwamperGene
Thank you for your thoughts. See my response to kraz, above-

Volvo 1:1:
Thank you for allowing me to speak my concerns.
I had no intention to start a flame war with this thread. It’s just a personal take on the recent events-

AfxToo: 
I much appreciate the time you took to analyze my comments (I thought at first, you were going to regulate me to the “Holy hand granade” theme, again). 
You are one who has been a great asset to this board. Your advice, tips, links and comments, have never been out of line, and you rarely take anyone to task—no matter what they say, project, or how they conduct themselves. 
Very diplomatic of you, and truly commendable.
I obviously lack your patience and low-key approch....

As I’d mentioned above to Kraz, I have no issues with someone selling their wares on this board-- producing to make a living, or selling to recoup the expense and time they have in making the master. I have bought things from a few here and have been very pleased- with not only the transaction, but with the product itself.

My point was how and where these said items are being allotted.
Your scheme of a new forum is a brilliant idea. 

I wish the moderator(‘s) would read this forum more often- then maybe some things we have all pointed out in this thread could be addressed.

VideoJimmy:
You Sir, are my perfect example-
I know you have and sell videos & CDs. You mentioned this before. 
But I don’t see you bouncing from thread to thread trying to put your wares in everyone’s faces. You have been most discreet and very respectful of the board as a whole. I take my hat off to you.

You mentioned the hefty sum the casters and re-poppers have invested in there business ventures: I too commend them for taking the risk and would expect them to make a profit from their venture. 
But, there are literally hundreds of casters on the “bay” doing virtually the same thing (albeit not on the same level or dedication). 
But, just think what this place would be like if they all decided to come here, figuring they could make another buck by crowding out the regular posts or adding to them with snippets of the sales items. I think it would turn a lot of people off.

Zanza-
I respect your take on my opinion.
About all I can add for you is-

There is a time and place for everything…


Although Roger Corrie hasn’t replied (I know he read this, though),
his points, in a recent thread in the AW forum are worth a mention again, here.
I really agree with the majority of it-

I said earlier times were the “Golden age” of slot cars.
This should be taken with a grain of salt-

I don’t like the “new” Nascar as much as the old, but who can argue the racing today isn’t closer than it’s ever been, or more popular? 
I’ll care for it even less once the “spec" Car of tomorrow debuts-

My take on the older days of yore was to be in context with the buying, selling and distribution practices, that was in place at that time. 

I never lacked for product, then either-
There have always been Hobby shows, toy shows, flea markets and the (then, not too common) slot car shows. 
If I wanted something, I could find a place to look for it.

I am truly happy that so many items and accessories are available to the masses, now. This surely brings in new blood.

I am probably in the minority when I think of how my anticipation rose each year- wondering what would be coming out. I could easily regulate my budget to purchase everything my heart desired that became available.
I didn’t have to join clubs or go chasing after “chase” cars because I liked the certain body style.

Bob’s Hobby Lobby and Scale Auto got much green from my pocket during those times, along with the big 3 (well, 2 ½- along with Faller, Atlas, Riggen, Marchon, Jim Stefaniack and Bauer- just to mention a few).

And by purchasing Jim’s former business, even Phil of (now) RRR has gouged the eyes out of collectors in need of a part or two, and inflated the price of re-pops to a point where he could give away cars for the next two years and still be far in the black. He rarely sees my business….

Although I said I was pleased with all the new stock available, this thought is directed to those who purchase said products on a regular basis, to keep the cottage industries afloat. I don’t race “professionally”, and have enough spares to keep me going for the next decade, so this is why I’m glad there are those that do-

Personally, I’m a bit overwhelmed with it all now. I bought about 10 cases of the first release and loved the fact I could get so much stuff at one time. I continued on that path until I was buying just a bunch of duplicates. Now with the pot spilling over, I’ve had to re-think my buying ventures and reel in the excess purchasing to a minimum of what I see me really wanting. 
With close to 2K slots, there’s few I “have” to have at this point-
( The Magrirus Fire lorry comes to mind....)


I do want to thank Roger and the few other not too blatant sellers (or just “regular” casters) on the board for offering up some really fine and unique items. I know how to reach them for purchase, and all here should know this too.

For the newbies just coming on- I would hope they don’t think that the 3-4 prominent sellers and perps’ of point–pushing here, are the only things available. I would like to see the other lesser-known casters offer up some of their items in the S&S section, just to keep the newer mems’ up to speed and give them a better choice in availability.

These guys, I will always get stuff from. They produce neat stuff in a timely manner, take care of any issues that arise, and most of the time finish off their work to display in the customs forum, for all to see- and get a good idea of what they could do by purchasing the product, themselves.

They never hawk their stuff endlessly and are actually quite conservative with their posting about it, and are a mainstream in the whole slot car loop. 
This is not apples and oranges-- they deserve just as much credit as anyone casting/selling/repopping, here.

If these blokes can do it, why can’t others follow suit?

Is it so hard to follow and play by the rules here, and doesn’t others’ consideration have a play in it?

I'm not trying to make enemies here... just trying to keep my friends-

Thanks once more-

Cheers..


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## rodstrguy (Feb 14, 2002)

Boss9,

While I tend to agree with a lot you've written I have to say there is some I don't agree with. But hey, this is America and you have the right to your opinion! I too wish some would keep the selling in the swap & sell forum, but most of the time people showing off stuff that is coming out or being custom made end up posting in the modeling section and "we" as a collective start asking how we can buy them...
I have to say I have no problem with Tom Lowe taking on the Autoworld name, hopefully he can bring back some of that greatness that was available to us few (?) that were able to be served by them in the 70's. I also do not have a problem with AW having it's own thread here.

Wow, I guess I should have read from bottom to top in the threads, as I think I found what prompted this thread... after I posted here. Some people may need to be left alone when they post, or they need to be ignored as I learned when I tried to discuss reality with them.


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## krazcustoms (Nov 20, 2003)

O.K., perhaps 90% was harsh, and I now see a little more clearly where you're coming from. But your original post makes it sound like you're against re-pops in general, and I would love to have some (or even all) old Tycos re-popped especially if they're engineered to clip onto the XT or Super Mag chassis. Heck, I'd even like to see the Atlas cars re-popped. And when you said that Tom only collects Jeffersons, Franklins, and Lincolns, it sounds like you're against money being made from his venture, and makes your well-wishes seem sarcastic. That's one of the problems with text - it could be read in a different way than intended. When I mentioned that the hobby WAS (key word) stagnant, I meant BEFORE even the JL pullbacks. I think they piqued the interest, which has since snowballed into what we have today, which is a greater variety and volume of H.O. slot product available than I have ever seen, and I've been collecting since 1976. So I withdraw my 90% figure, and while I have no idea what number I would change it to now, I can definitely say we are far more alike than different. Thanks for the clarifications. Mike


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

I recently posted a (negative) opinion of one of the new products and promptly got attacked by the manufacturer. That was a first!
What next, a cease and desist order from BMW because I told a friend the parking sensors on my car were crap?

Maybe these guys are too in our face and we in theirs?


dw


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

> I recently posted a (negative) opinion of one of the new products and promptly got attacked by the manufacturer. That was a first!


C'mon dw, you know very well that this is exactly how negativity spreads across these boards. If you have an issue with a certain manufacturer take it up with him. Don't drag it over here and expect some sort of pity party on your behalf. I saw your posts and you did poke, even if subtly, at areas that you knew going in would incite a reaction in a thread dedicated to announcing a new product. He has a dedicated board and a phone number and I'm certain he'd be more than willing to talk to you, man to man, to resolve any differences. A lot of people in the hobby know you and respect you from your positive contributions to the hobby and that's not going to change any time soon. It's alright to disagree and have personal differences of opinion, but escalating personal differences outside of the affected parties turns it into politics. This board is dedicated to slot cars, not politics. Stay cool and let it pass.


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

AfxToo said:


> C'mon dw, you know very well that this is exactly how negativity spreads across these boards. If you have an issue with a certain manufacturer take it up with him. Don't drag it over here and expect some sort of pity party on your behalf. I saw your posts and you did poke, even if subtly, at areas that you knew going in would incite a reaction in a thread dedicated to announcing a new product. He has a dedicated board and a phone number and I'm certain he'd be more than willing to talk to you, man to man, to resolve any differences. A lot of people in the hobby know you and respect you from your positive contributions to the hobby and that's not going to change any time soon. It's alright to disagree and have personal differences of opinion, but escalating personal differences outside of the affected parties turns it into politics. This board is dedicated to slot cars, not politics. Stay cool and let it pass.


You make some valid points, but I do feel that forums would become pretty useless if everyone gagged themselves from saying anything not 100% positive. Lively discussion is all part and parcel of the forums and it works OK when there is mutual respect. Clearly Lenny loathes me and has for some time. Something about my standing with Tom Lowe winds him up. And I am getting fed up with his overbearing and overly aggresive ways.

I'm not alone either...

Nonetheless I will continue to look at and pass judgement on any new product from any company without any bias, agenda or loyalty to any party.


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## videojimmy (Jan 12, 2006)

_VideoJimmy:
You Sir, are my perfect example-
I know you have and sell videos & CDs. You mentioned this before. 
But I don’t see you bouncing from thread to thread trying to put your wares in everyone’s faces. You have been most discreet and very respectful of the board as a whole. I take my hat off to you._



thanks.. and remember.... BUY MY DVD's.. the reviews have been awesome, not one complaint!

hehehehe


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## boss9 (Apr 19, 2002)

I think I have clarified most of my points, but this thread has been very good, in the fact that we get to see others views of the issues, and all can voice their opinions without expectations of retaliation.

Kraz:
I thought we were closer as well!
And thank you for clarifying your points as well. I believe we both can have friendly debate and both come away smiling.

Yes, following the written word can sometimes be trying, but that is why we all can post our thoughts- and re-thoughts. 

Let’s have at it some more!

One subject I would like to address is the fact T.L. has his own forum.

This is ok by me, but because of his links with the moderators—he gets it. That is why I stated I wasn’t surprised.
Does anyone think another retailer of his stature could do the same?
I don’t think so-

If he can recreate the “aura” of the original A.W. catalog, I will retract my former statement on this issue. 
But, I don’t see him doing it that way.

I think it’s a ploy to use the name to pull on our heart-strings in fond remembrance of what was once was. I don’t expect him to sell model rockets or plastic glue kits,though-

But I do expect everything slot related- including R/C type paints for clear bodyies, body mount kits, custom wheels/ tires, hop-up parts, and even the much lacked scenery for layouts (even if he has to re-pop the Atlas buildings).
The only thing he definitely won’t do, is offer the other manufacturers cars and parts. This will be the difference of the old VS "new" Autoworld.

I do feel sorry for Tom that his forum has been used by the other sellers to push their products. I feel this is unfair to him as well. Why don’t they vie for their own forum? More money out of pocket, I suppose…

On the re-pop issue, I wouldn’t have purchased so many cases if I didn’t have a care for them. But I have so many now, that I (personally) don’t need any more. 
I run (not race) all my cars—including what some feel are extremely valuable. If I break one- well my collection suffers, but that is the chance I’m willing to take. 

Since this view (above) is one of few being similar, I embrace the re-pops for others and mostly the new-comers who can’t get some of those cars without selling their furniture or handing over a first born.
It is no doubt a boon for them (and the customizers, too).

I still think the hobby wasn’t that stagnant before the pull-backs because of the "bay”. 
When the “bay” first rolled out, slot cars were very well priced because not many knew to visit there and look for them. 
And I also agree- once the pull-backs made their debut, it increased the interest 10-fold--and it’s only climbed from there to what we have now- a wealth on new product. Definitely positive for slot car hobbyists as a whole.

Mike, we do have a lot more in common than either of us thought-
But you might have another counter-point.

So, bring it! This is fun and educational to boot!

Afxtoo & Montoya:
As you both are aware, I refrained from name calling (except in the case of T.L.) for a reason-
I think all of the perps’ I mentioned know who they are, but won’t speak on this thread for fear of facing the truth- and frankly I hope they don’t, because I wanted to keep this a clean debate.

I don’t know about the certain thread of which you spoke, but hey! It’ my thread and all are welcome to join the fray!

I see no reason a member can’t comment on the pros or cons of a product-
If they receive flack from an opinion, this should show others what the sellers’ “true colours” are like below his thin skin.

This is not the first time this has happened—in fact it happened again just last week. An innocent poke and the said sellers’ fury was unleashed.

I’m truly amazed that some here are so hypocritical in that they will put up with this blatant and nasty attitude for the sake of getting more cars-
They must really want them awfully bad…


Both Too and Monty had valid points.
It should be kept within the boundaries of the original thread-

There are more than the said name mentioned, as well, but I don’t think a personal vendetta is the reason. The same attitude applies to anyone not in total agreement with the selling parties.

That is until they look in the mirror, and see what a ugly ogre they have turned into then it’s back the “Mr. Nice guy” again-

I say to both Afxtoo and Montoya:
Let you opinions and differences fly right here!
There will be no namecalling or lack of respect to each other-

This is the “Neutral Zone (the “No spin zone” was already taken)…
(It will never get “too hot” in this thread.)
So bring it!

Thanks very much for the positive and much welcomed thoughts without the mamby-pamby whining and general sucking up to the rogues!

This shows we all have “a pair”

Oh, and Jimmy:

How dare you!

(A good one! Hahahaha! You are the devils advocate!)


Cheers, all!


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## videojimmy (Jan 12, 2006)

I'm the same way, I run all my cars. I go easy on the more valuable ones but I run them nonetheless. I don't see the point in collecting slot cars as pieces of art, they're for running. Plus, I like the fact that every one of my cars not only runs, but runs well. 

I go through my collection, all 1,200 cars and run them for 10 laps each, tune them up as needed. It takes weeks to go through them all. If I want to race, I have about 100 runners I use. I like having two types of each kind of chassis in my runner's box, this way I can race someone with the same chassis as the one I'm running. Plus, there were some cars from my youth that I like to keep in my runner's box, for old times sake. All the cars in my runners box are cars that I have mint copies of anyway. 

What is it about these little plastic cars that evoke such passion?


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

One thing that people may not be aware of is the fact the Hobbytalk forum was (still is) linked to the JL website as the JL Bulletin board. I guess HT is a stand-alone entity and that Playing Mantis did a deal which meant they did not have to set up their own board. But it does explain why Tom has a special relationship.

Being from Europe, and the age that I am, the name Autoworld does not tug at me at all. I have no expectations of what Tom Lowe will do with the name, especially as priority one (as with any business) is to make money. 

The nostalgia trip is big business, but I'm not sure of for how long so I'm keeping an eye on what TL has in mind for the future. In the meantime I have been guilty of showing interest in what he does now and praising these efforts in the UK slot press.


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

Montoya, I think you partially missed the point. When people feel that they've been "wronged," especially on another web site, what possible good does it do to come crying here with your complaints? Do you want sympathy or do you want us all to band together and mount a counter-attack against the supposed wrong doer on another site? That does no good. All you're doing is dragging in problems that nobody on this site is privy to. It's not a case of suppressing negative posts, it's just about maintaining the proper context here. Plus, you would be amazed at many conflicts can be resolved by talking to a person directly.

There's already an abundance of so called hobby sites that spread negativity and dissent. Let's try to maintain one positive, safe refuge for hobbyists of all ages who want to talk about what's GOOD with the hobby. Is that asking too much?


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

AfxToo said:


> Montoya, I think you partially missed the point. When people feel that they've been "wronged," especially on another web site, what possible good does it do to come crying here with your complaints? Do you want sympathy or do you want us all to band together and mount a counter-attack against the supposed wrong doer on another site? That does no good. All you're doing is dragging in problems that nobody on this site is privy to. It's not a case of suppressing negative posts, it's just about maintaining the proper context here. Plus, you would be amazed at many conflicts can be resolved by talking to a person directly.
> 
> There's already an abundance of so called hobby sites that spread negativity and dissent. Let's try to maintain one positive, safe refuge for hobbyists of all ages who want to talk about what's GOOD with the hobby. Is that asking too much?


I didn't miss the point, I did say that you made some valid points and you were right that I should not have brought the probs from the other forum here. I didn't have a particular need for sympathy or any of that nonsense but I did feel what happened to me was germane to the discussion about the actions of sellers on these forums.

I'm all for accentuating the positive and I don't think commenting about the 4WD wheel clearance on the Dash Cheetah was out of line in itself. What follows was a drag for everyone and Lenny has done that in many threads.

On the plus side the proposed inline chassis from Dash and AW only have positives as far as I can see. At a time when Gary Beedle and Bob Licoln are about to square off over their IMCs (Inline Magnetless Chassis) and you just know that will get ugly, these more low-tech, less controversial chassis will be a big hit (at least I hope so).

In the meantime the Dash Mclaren has all the makings off being the slot car of the year, IMO, and I can't wait to see how it turns out. I'm impressed that Lenny forked out for a license with a company well known for its ability to bleed you dry or litigate your ass if you cross them.


dw


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## zanza (Sep 23, 2005)

videojimmy said:


> I'm the same way, I run all my cars. I go easy on the more valuable ones but I run them nonetheless. I don't see the point in collecting slot cars as pieces of art, they're for running. Plus, I like the fact that every one of my cars not only runs, but runs well.
> 
> I go through my collection, all 1,200 cars and run them for 10 laps each, tune them up as needed. It takes weeks to go through them all. If I want to race, I have about 100 runners I use. I like having two types of each kind of chassis in my runner's box, this way I can race someone with the same chassis as the one I'm running. Plus, there were some cars from my youth that I like to keep in my runner's box, for old times sake. All the cars in my runners box are cars that I have mint copies of anyway.
> 
> What is it about these little plastic cars that evoke such passion?



I do exactly the same (but with only a little less half of your collection, around 500 cars)
My pleasure is to run each cars I have and tune them to run the best possibly (except the boxed or MOC ones of course, even if sometimes I feel urged to open one just to touch and run it: and it has happened sometimes, and it's cool  )


On a Sunday, I choose a container full of cars, run some laps on all and if I found one that seems a little weak compared to other similars, here we go: I tune it and fix it and change parts on it, that's really what I like in the hobby.


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## AMX (Nov 1, 2005)

I posted in another thread before AutoWorld came out that I was interested in re using that name for a mail order hobby business and all of my friends and business associates told me I was nuts for even considering it - that all I would be dealing with would be "bottom feeders"


I thought it would have been a neat idea, then the Playing Mantis stuff became Auto World. 

I guess it is hard to make a buck peddling hobby products. Glad none of them encouraged it.


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## sethndaddy (Dec 4, 2004)

"Slotsrus67" is a cheesy name ripped offa toysrus, but I didn't think I would keep selling on ebay, so I kept it.
To the point of some of this thread, guys, opinions are opinions, deal with them, like I say about TV, if you don't like the show, turn the channel.
My opinion, short and sweet, I love what Tom Lowe and Dan have done for the hobby. I can't get enough of it.


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

Racers who have to shell out hard earned cash for their hobby will decide whether or not there is any interest in the brass weighted inline cars. There's no reason at all for anything to turn ugly in slot car play land over any new product offering by any manufacturer. 

Manufacturers make products. Consumers buy products. That's a very simple and totally unencumbered relationship. How or why something so utterly and mindlessly simple could take on "political meaning" is something to be studied by behavioral scientists who have tired of dealing with lab monkeys and wish to work with subjects with slightly less propensity to sling their droppings at researchers. Yet, in a rare case of evolutionary inversion, the slot car politicos tend to sling droppings at each other. If you think I'm being facetious run any of the ongoing slot car holy war scenarios by a neutral party who is an outsider to the hobby. To say that they will laugh at you in the most "you guys are a bunch of morons" sort of way is a gross understatement. And sadly, they are right.


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## videojimmy (Jan 12, 2006)

I don't get it.... what's all the fuss about? If a company puts out an item I want, I'll buy it. All the politics and mudslinging isn't going to make me buy a product I don't want, or to keep from buying one that I do. 

The more products I have to choose from, the better.


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## BRPHO (Aug 1, 2006)

I agree totally with what VJ above said!

It is my choice where and what I spend my hard earned $$$$ on!

All the mud slinging in the world won't change my mind........

The only mud slinging I want to see is at a 4x4 mud bog event!

All I have to say to all the whiners on this board is "Go home and take all your cars with you if you can't play nice with others here on the board!" HA HA HA!!!! 

Wayne


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## ParkRNDL (Mar 20, 2002)

videojimmy said:


> I don't get it.... what's all the fuss about? If a company puts out an item I want, I'll buy it. All the politics and mudslinging isn't going to make me buy a product I don't want, or to keep from buying one that I do.
> 
> The more products I have to choose from, the better.


Seriously, go lurk on one of the boards where Slottech or Wizzard guys hang out. It's downright scary the kind of stuff they fling at each other over little toy cars. It's been a while since I read them, but they tend to get VERY personal. Kinda takes Ford vs. Chevy, Yanks vs. Red Sox, Less Filling vs. Tastes Great to a whole new low. 

But it's been so long since I've read them I can't remember the links... don't have them bookmarked anymore...

anyone?

--rick


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## noddaz (Aug 6, 1999)

*No good reason to go there.*



ParkRNDL said:


> Seriously, go lurk on one of the boards where Slottech or Wizzard guys hang out. It's downright scary the kind of stuff they fling at each other over little toy cars. It's been a while since I read them, but they tend to get VERY personal. Kinda takes Ford vs. Chevy, Yanks vs. Red Sox, Less Filling vs. Tastes Great to a whole new low.
> 
> But it's been so long since I've read them I can't remember the links... don't have them bookmarked anymore...
> 
> ...


I have them. But there I can't think of a good reason to post either one.
To anyone from those boards that reads this, I apologize.
But that's the way it is.
Scott


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## AMX (Nov 1, 2005)

> Racers who have to shell out hard earned cash for their hobby will decide whether or not there is any interest in the brass weighted inline cars. There's no reason at all for anything to turn ugly in slot car play land over any new product offering by any manufacturer.



Slot car racers are by far the most minority contingent in anything hobby or competition related. There are like a few hundred of them in the world. I bet there are more miget tossers.



> How or why something so utterly and mindlessly simple could take on "political meaning" is something to be studied by behavioral scientists who have tired of dealing with lab monkeys and wish to work with subjects with slightly less propensity to sling their droppings at researchers.



Kinda like they should study the shoppers shaking their heads driving past expensive 7-11s and mall specialty stores to shop at more discount oriented stores like Wal Mart?

Funny thing is, quite a few people have stated in the last few posts that they wouldn't buy any of these new releases if they were too expensive....where is their lecture on micro/macro economics relative to contemporary business models in the slot car field of venture?


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

I dunno about that number there AMX, I've had over 50 through my local group alone this past year, and new guys keep coming aboard. Come to think of it, if that were the case I guess I've met all but the last few living slot racers on the planet, cuz I've probably raced with over 200 individuals in the last couple of years. 

Do you race? I'd love to see and hear more about it...gotta place on the web we can check it out? Maybe share some racin' tips, results, etc...you know, the stuff us racers do?


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## AMX (Nov 1, 2005)

Aside from drag racing slot cars, or racing against people I know, or going to a mall store where you can race for fun I have had nothing to do with racing slot cars. Real cars and boats, yes, but slot cars no. 

Aside from drag racing slot cars I have never really ever met anybody that races slot cars, or know anybody who knows anybody who races slot cars. Every slotcar track in a mall or hobby shop around here is now long out of business except for one or two in peoples personal hobby shop or basement.

There was one guy who opened a Scalectrix sized track in a major rent mall around here, right next to the hoity toity upetty stores typically seen in snobby suburban type malls and in it was a large 200-300+ foot 4 or 6 lane track with all new cars and the good stuff, but I never went back to see if he is still even in business. 


I think it could be fun to travel some time from small town to small town on a theme based vacation stopping at all of the slot car related venues in whatever areas that are convienient. people have done this before for antique related trips, or 1:1 car racing related trips, or following a concert tour or whatever...


I just don't see it ever being interesting enough to actually do it, or important enough to convince the family or part of the family to actually go along with it. I would think this would be the case for a whole bunch of other people as well who still are interested in the suff, and buy a bunch of the stuff, and just keep it and use it for their own purposes in their own way at their own convenience like 10 or 20 other hobbies or intests I can think of.


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

I don't do anything with slot cars other than race them and I'm having a great time. The tracks do have long straights, I think the largest I helped build was 203'. But no scenery as it gets torn down at the end of the day.

I actually have more tire diameters (36 and counting, about to get some of the new Slottech slip ons) than I do cars (14) and every item I own is geared toward racing.

Collecting cars makes no sense to me, I sell on anything that has not earned its place in my pit box. I guess it just re-proves that we are all different and amen
for that!


dw


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## RacerDave (Mar 28, 2006)

None of my friends are into slots. I run them myself most of the time. I enjoy picking up old cars on the Bay and working on them to get them back running right. Nostalgia is definitely a major factor in this hobby for me. The wife picked up a controller the other day though and surprised me. We had a good time racing a couple of old AFX g-plus F-1's around the old track.


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## ParkRNDL (Mar 20, 2002)

RacerDave said:


> None of my friends are into slots. I run them myself most of the time. I enjoy picking up old cars on the Bay and working on them to get them back running right. Nostalgia is definitely a major factor in this hobby for me. The wife picked up a controller the other day though and surprised me. We had a good time racing a couple of old AFX g-plus F-1's around the old track.


Lucky you. I WISH I could get my wife to run a few laps. She's tried a couple of times, but she gets motion sickness before the end of the first straight. She's one of those that can't sit close to the front of the movie theater either, and every time she sees me put the car in reverse, she warns me to take it easy if I don't want to see what she had for lunch...

--rick


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

I'm very lucky in that department, my better half has gone as far as painting and helping prep my track table, has her own little box of "pink" cars, and has even gone to and participated in events at both the local and "nationals" level. Even occasionally cooks for the guys who come over for the weekly test-n-tune sessions. 

:thumbsup:


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## videojimmy (Jan 12, 2006)

My wife will race a few laps once in a while. She has a few favs among the cars in my runners box. She's particularly fond of the Lighted Tomy GTP JAG, the one with the front and rear lights, the Micro Scalextric UK flag Mini Cooper ... and the blue Dash Hot Rod. 

I would NEVER let her run a rare collectable... I love her but I'm not crazy.


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## videojimmy (Jan 12, 2006)

noddaz said:


> I have them. But there I can't think of a good reason to post either one.
> To anyone from those boards that reads this, I apologize.
> But that's the way it is.
> Scott




Nah, thanks anyway guys. No need to be witness to any dopey hatefests, 
I race and collect for ENJOYEMENT.  

yeah, it's crazy... I know. 
:freak: :tongue: :freak: :tongue:


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