# Interesting picture



## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

Needless to say the next image will be more interesting


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

So there you have it...

http://www.ladyofthecake.com/mel/frank/sounds/alive.wav


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

what?



???


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## 1976Cordoba (Sep 20, 2000)

Is this the much-heralded Granite Archer System finally awakening?


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

maybe.

I have got shot down before for lauding that, so I am now more cagey, but if there is a next picture I think it will look a bit more exciting that this first one


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

C'mon 'toya, it's the perfect Frankentrack moment...






Did you say GAR, or was it GARR?

The latter sounds like much more fun.


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## wheelszk (Jul 8, 2006)

It's a USA joke. LOL


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

*GARRRRRRRRRRRRR! is British for Arrrrrrrrrrrgh! .....right?*

Ah c'mon Linus...er .... I mean Dean, just because some people have worn out a Max Trac or two while you've been waiting in the punkin' patch for the "GAR...ate pumpkin" is no reason to get cagey on us now.

We can appreciate loyalty no matter how mis-guided it may be. Just dont expect us instant gratification types to wait patiently with you when we can run right out and buy a similar product right off the rack.

I admire your tenacity....understand it....well.... not so much.

Everything improtant in life is clearly explained in "Peanuts" (Charlie Brown)


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

is it a bridge?


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

Ummm, on a lighter note...

GARR is American for "used to be one mega hot babe," as in the blonde in the clip shown above ... from one of the classic movie comedies of all time ... _Young Frankenstein_ by Mel Brooks ... for sure one of the top 10 (maybe top 5) quotable comedy "sound bite" movies of all time, with Monty Python's _Holy Grail_ being #1 ... and _Blazing Saddles_ not too far behind ... maybe tied with _Rocky Horror_ ... but anyway ...

see the Frankentrack picture ... first time shown, think "It's Alive," think GAR, kinda like GARR, as in Teri, did I mention she used to be so hot?, and suddenly, the twisted brain with which I'm burdened (or blessed?) connects all the dots ... all the pieces fall into place, inspired by Deane's post.

There you have it.


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

Bill Hall said:


> wait patiently with you when we can run right out and buy a similar product right off the rack.


I always knew I was not going to be able to afford to convert in one go, way too expensive when talking about temporary room fillers. Hence 'waiting', as this product provides adapters, which none of the others will (and I have asked).


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

AfxToo said:


> Ummm, on a lighter note...
> 
> GARR is American for "used to be one mega hot babe," as in the blonde in the clip shown above ... from one of the classic movie comedies of all time ... _Young Frankenstein_ by Mel Brooks ... for sure one of the top 10 (maybe top 5) quotable comedy "sound bite" movies of all time, with Monty Python's _Holy Grail_ being #1 ... and _Blazing Saddles_ not too far behind ... maybe tied with _Rocky Horror_ ... but anyway ...
> 
> ...


Life of Brian at #2 I take it?

''I'm brian and so is my wife''

''All right, but apart from the sanitation, medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh water system and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?''

''She did! She did! He! He did! He!''

''I've had enough of this wowdy webel sniggewing behaviour. Silence! Call yourselves Pwaetowian guards? You're not - Seize him! Seize him! Blow your noses and seize him!''

And about 200 others


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

Oh yeah, _Life of Brian_ is way, way up on the list too. "I can see my house from up here!" Then there's "The Meaning of Life." The Brit's have such an impeccably twisted sense of humor, which is one of the reasons why I like them so much. As to the Tomy/GAR transition piece: "Mind the Gap" and all should be well.


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

If you like the British SOH, you might like Scot comedy (if you can understand it).

Our top comic at that moment is this guy.


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## tjd241 (Jan 25, 2004)

*hey...*

Is that all the track you would have saved by switching to Tyco? nd


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

?????


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

''All right, but apart from the sanitation, medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh water system and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?''



LMAO! 

I'd forgotten this classic quote.


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

If you remember it builds up to that quote too, somebody diluting the point being made more and more.






Not many films make me cry with laughter, but there is one right there.


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)




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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

To get back on topic, yes the wait has been long, but hopefully worth it.

Sectional pieces to routed quality is yummy enough but the ability to hook into our existing tracks and convert gradually sealed the deal, meant I had to patient where others did not need to be (a typical track on a few tables that does not get altered being their thing) or did not want to be.

If Bill Hall wants to compare apples and oranges, that is his right. If he could pursuade one of the other sectional track guys to sell adapters, that would be cool. Maxtrax (sp?) showed a bit of interest, but did not pursue the idea as far as I know....


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## demether (Aug 26, 2008)

> If you like the British SOH



One of my favorite show is "Bottom" ! if you don't know that, it's just incredibly stupid, evil and fun :thumbsup:


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

Faulty Towers still rules.


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

So can I buy GAR track today? I'm not interested in melding it with plastic, but I am in the market for a new track and want to weigh all my options. Rail characteristics are very important to me, as are lane spacing, and smoothness. C'mon, please spill the beans for your HT buds!


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

AfxToo said:


> So can I buy GAR track today?


Basically, no.


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## wheelszk (Jul 8, 2006)

AFXToo,
Check out TKO tracks very, very, nice. If I didn't have my 2nd Maxx, I would have bought his.


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## wheelszk (Jul 8, 2006)

Sorry,

try www.cnccustomcutting.com .


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

That is one the companies I asked (about doing adapters to Tomy) without reply.

If the track is not going to adapt to other makes, nor be altered in terms of layout, surely a Bowman fully routed is the best option?


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## martybauer31 (Jan 27, 2004)

I don't see how Bill is comparing apples to oranges..... at this point it's more like comparing apples to vapor. I remember this going around a couple of years ago and thinking how cool it would be. Seeing the pictures and all that then, and then trying to do it now, really isn't cutting it this time.

Given what happened the last time around, why doesn't it make sense to just actually wait until the product is ready to be released? Surely everyone remembers the joke this became after the first go around.

Looking at the picture, it looks like the lanes on the new track aren't even parallel, what is the reasoning for that?

Don't get me wrong.... If this actually comes out some day I would consider looking at it as well, but come on Deane, don't throw this one pic out there and expect people not to remember how it turned out last time.


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

I just want to race, man.


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

martybauer31 said:


> I don't see how Bill is comparing apples to oranges..... at this point it's more like comparing apples to vapor. I remember this going around a couple of years ago and thinking how cool it would be. Seeing the pictures and all that then, and then trying to do it now, really isn't cutting it this time.
> 
> Given what happened the last time around, why doesn't it make sense to just actually wait until the product is ready to be released? Surely everyone remembers the joke this became after the first go around.
> 
> ...


I am not doing any of the stuff that you mention. Somebody sent me a picture that shows Tomy track adapted to some other track system (and the angled lines are pretty easy to work out), and I posted it here.

When there are more pictures I will post those too, and you guys can infer and suppose etc all you like.


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## martybauer31 (Jan 27, 2004)

Montoya1 said:


> I am not doing any of the stuff that you mention. Somebody sent me a picture that shows Tomy track adapted to some other track system (and the angled lines are pretty easy to work out), and I posted it here.
> 
> When there are more pictures I will post those too, and you guys can infer and suppose etc all you like.


You aren't doing any of the stuff I mentioned?

So.... you didn't just post pictures at the beginning of this post? Pictures weren't posted a long while back about the system and they never came to fruition?

Right now, I am *inferring* that you did post these, and I *suppose* that will have to do.

I'd love it if your friend would post these instead of you and give us some actual meaningful numbers and dates as opposed to what happened the last go around.


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)




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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

If there were meaningful dates and numbers, I would post them. What I have is a picture, so I posted that.


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

NTxSlotCars said:


>


Somebody is a bit too easily entertained


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

Montoya1 said:


> Somebody is a bit too easily entertained


Hey, ya'll were the only show on this afternoon!


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

Naw... no fruit comparisons... other than the great pumpkin analogy.

Quite honestly I'm still waiting on the great pumpkin myself and of course the backlog of toys owed to me for believing.

There might be a Plum Crazy Charger or an Orange Mako for me yet!


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## Tjettom (Jan 1, 2008)

Just how well would those sell? I bet they're reasonably cheap and in big supply. 

I can't imagine anyone wanting a routed track to connect to sectional plastic track. 

I have never enjoyed racing on any track that incorporated adapters. 
I know something for everyone.
Yeah, I know.

Tjettom Baker


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## Tjettom (Jan 1, 2008)

*?*



Montoya1 said:


> That is one the companies I asked (about doing adapters to Tomy) without reply.
> 
> Why would Todd (TKO Tracks) make adapters at all? He builds complete CNC routed tracks of his own and not sectionals. I'm almost sure he has plenty business building his tracks without having to try hooking Tomy track onto his track.
> 
> TJT


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

Fair enough, in which case an example of comparing apples and oranges.


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

Tjettom said:


> I can't imagine anyone wanting a routed track to connect to sectional plastic track.
> 
> Tjettom Baker


Then you can't imagine the kinds of tracks we run here. Hopefully we will one day have enough sectional BT to throw the toy stuff away, but for now the adapters mean we can get started.

I don't normally trust adapters either, but these would be BT adapters. The ones on our large routed curve work a charm.

Even if you only have a typical small 'basement' track, Sestional BT would give you the higher quality but enable you to change the configuration when you wished. For those not looking for that the answer is simples, buy a fully routed BradTrack.


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## demether (Aug 26, 2008)

What are you speaking about, in this topic ? a new brand of high end sectionnal track, like Maxtrax ?


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## videojimmy (Jan 12, 2006)

I could imagine a routed track with sectional add ons. I think it's a great idea. You can have the base track routed with all the electronics, and add on all kind of course changes. The thing from that keeps me from a routed terach, other than lack of space, is the lack of opportunity to make changes in the layout. I get bored silly running the same layout over and over again.


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

That is the end game for us, to be using big sections of routed track each time, such as the curve we have already purchased, attached to areas of track than can be reconfigured. The AFX track will also be used in the same way in the interim.

As far as I know only Brad allows people to do that.


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

As I said in the OP the next picture would be more interesting!










Also:










ready to be plugged into a Tomy Layout.


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## resinmonger (Mar 5, 2008)

Given that Deane and his mates gather in a very large space and set up extremely large temporary tracks, I can see his desire for GAR to come to fruition. If memory serves, they set up layouts of several hunderd feet on a number of tables. I should imagine they are based on real circuits. So, the ablity to slowly convert from sectional to GAR as budget allowed would be a primary concern. As I recall, the HO 24 Hours of Le Mans track was replaced by routed sections over a period of a couple years. 

I am not aware of anyone in the USA that puts up large temporay layouts. Look at the FRAY. They have a number of big tables for their unique 6 lane circuits. These thrack is permanently mounted to these tables. Regional and National events are run on permanent layouts as well. So, we really don't have the same requirement for a system like GAR that Montoya does.

We will be skeptical to the extreme of GAR considering the misfires this system has gone through to date. Pictures are shown. Web sites go up and down. There has been more drama than a whole season of any two soap operas. Since I don't truely need the system, I am really put off by the long gestation period.

I hope it finally comes out and that it is the answer to your somewhat unique requirements, Deane.

BTW, the UK produces some great Sci-Fi shows as well as the previously noted comedy. I really enjoy Torchwood and hope they come back for season 4.


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## demether (Aug 26, 2008)

torchwood is cool, BUT Drwho is GREAT ^^

to go on topic, the UK machine routed "pro" track should be interesting for us european people, because systems like maxtrax or wizzard are expensive on the shipping side. 

But we have to wait for a complete range of GAR tracks, and price list, to see if the UK creation is a good alternative for european competition h0 tracks.

for now, the only budget realistic way to build such a track here in France and europe, is to route the track ourselves.


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

resinmonger said:


> I am not aware of anyone in the USA that puts up large temporay layouts. Look at the FRAY. They have a number of big tables for their unique 6 lane circuits. These thrack is permanently mounted to these tables. Regional and National events are run on permanent layouts as well. So, we really don't have the same requirement for a system like GAR that Montoya does.


Just because that is how it is, does not mean that is how it has to be.


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## resinmonger (Mar 5, 2008)

Montoya1 said:


> Just because that is how it is, does not mean that is how it has to be.


You have a good point, Deane. Clubs _could_ start setting up large temporary circuits in public venues on our side of the pond. Actually, I recall seeing a video of a club in Canada that did set up and race in public to promote the hobby. However, the availability of permanent tracks in hobby shops, basements, garages, and dedicated rooms of homes make racing on said tracks most convenient. The owners of these tracks have invested a tidy sum in each one as well. 

This is not to say that clubs or indivduals here never set up in public places. A number of shops and clubs have mobile permanent tracks that they take to fairs, malls, cars shows etc. Some of these are even mounted on trailers. Thus, the set up time is minimal and the track can be raced on straight away.

I am intrigued by your clubs "monster" tracks. I'm sure they are both fun and challenging to race on. As you say, it could be done here. Necessity is the mother of invention; IMHO, we lack that necessity here.

Please post some pictures of one of you recent gatherings. 

Russ the Hutt


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

I broadly agree about the mother of invention point you make. I have always felt that the US Nats tracks should be something different, something to blow people's minds, rather than more of the same, but I accept that those that race on them seem happy to maintain the status quo.

We have cut back on the monster tracks, using smaller rooms that put us on proper financial footing (ie - not myself and the other hosts paying from our own funds) and finance improvements.

Here are some recent examples:


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## resinmonger (Mar 5, 2008)

Thanks for posting the pictures, Deane. The one in the center certainly provides food for thought. That could be a way to get HO racing at a 1/32 or 1/24 shop on occasion without the shop having to invest money and space in a permanent HO track.

The bottom left most curve in the third phot looks like a custom section. Who fabricated that section for you?


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

resinmonger said:


> The bottom left most curve in the third phot looks like a custom section. Who fabricated that section for you?


Mr Bowman of course!


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

We have a long history of mounting HO tracks on top of raceways here, although my group has only been doing so for the last 3 years or so.

It is quick to do, different to drive, looks good and brings in people to HO who probably would not have tried it otherwise.

I would love to see another big track somewhere in the US. It is a great Nation, and usually when it sets its mind to it can do things better than anywhere on earth. A permanent or semi permanent large room filling track, something like the KSR but on steroids, all routed and hosting the Nats each year - To me that would be the ultimate.


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## demether (Aug 26, 2008)

I believe for a lot of h0 sloters, the 8"x4" or 12"/16"x4" is a standard for h0 tracks, like the tjet is a standard in h0 chassis. Perhaps it's why we can't see tracks like yours in USA ?


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

> something like the KSR but on steroids, all routed and hosting the Nats each year


Sounds like a great idea and if I had the real estate I would build the kind of track you are describing, but not for Nats level racing.

I realize I'm making a hasty generalization for all you logic theorists, but competitive HO slot car racers can be viewed as having somewhat of a prima donna complex when it comes to tracks (and other things). They only want to race on tracks that they are intimately familiar with. We're talking well known layouts, rails with known characteristics, many hours of practice accumulated on the layout, several candidate setups dialed in for all conceivable conditions of track cleanliness, temperature, humidity, barometric pressure, sun spot activity, etc. Any surprises and anything "out of the ordinary" like a huge track layout is heavily frowned up. Frankly, Some people and groups will only go to a Nats if they can bring their own tracks. 

That's one side of this argument. There is always another side. 

While you may consider the "spec track racers" as prima donnas, others may consider them to be at the pinnacle of professional slot car racing. After all, drag racers don't change the length of their track from race to race. The Daytona 500 is run on exactly the same configuration from year to year. Want to hear some heavy professional NASCAR whining? Repave an existing track. This consistency in the track has its benefits. Records and attainments become much more meaningful when the track does not change appreciably from race to race. Record setters and race winners want to hone their skills and fine tune their game. Standard layouts on standard tracks allow some semblance of the fine tuning to take place even if you don't have access to the real track. If the monster Nats track was always the same then, yes, familiarity would slowly build up over time. But racers who live near the Nats track would have an advantage if they were allowed access to the track between Nats races. 

So you can see that this has nothing at all to do with ingenuity, real or perceived, or nationalistic perspectives. It's really a couple of very basic principles that apply to any sport. HO slot car racing gives us an enormous capacity to address the many subtle nuances of the hobby and sport. There is a full spectrum of racing opportunities between the "we don't need no stinkin' rules" basement and family room floor racing to the highly orchestrated and closely governed realm of finely honed and polished skills of the best of the best put to the test at the national level races on predicable layouts. Whatever you do, no matter how you shape it to fit your needs, it's never a question of right or wrong. When you have the freedom to choose, you can decide what is right - for you.

Personally, I love monster layouts and the unpredictability of a new and unique track design. I tend to do much better in these situations because I can adapt and do reasonably well under these unpredictable circumstances. The cookie cutter tracks are okay for me, but I don't have the intensity of focus, unconstrained dedication, and skill that it takes to run at the top tier or "professional" level on these tracks. I'll still try. So I clearly see firsthand why the Nats races are held on those "spec" tracks. It's a time proven and successful formula.


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## 1976Cordoba (Sep 20, 2000)

Well stated.


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## demether (Aug 26, 2008)

It's nearly what I said before (more or less...):hat: :tongue:


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## resinmonger (Mar 5, 2008)

demether said:


> It's nearly what I said before (more or less...):hat: :tongue:


Yes, you gave the abreviated Cliffs Notes version of the story.


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

Montoya1 said:


> We have a long history of mounting HO tracks ...snip*


I hope you have protection... I dont see ANY in the pix :freak:

:tongue:

Lord forgive me


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

Good one Bill 

Superb post (as usual) by AFXtoo. I still think that the Nats would be better served by using a track which has many of the awesome traits home tracks in the US have (smooth, large continious sections with few joints, flowing, good power supply, and so on) but way bigger than anyone has at home. The ISRA Nats take place on an awesome track that is stored between meets so there is no home advantage. 

All that stops this happening is inertia.


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

If anyone would like some curves like the one above, or any size using the same techniques, PM me....


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## resinmonger (Mar 5, 2008)

Montoya1 said:


> All that stops this happening is inertia.


Inertia is almost like a force of nature...


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

Human nature, yeah.

I am not, by the way, claiming the tracks here are better. They are imperfect due to their temporary nature, and based around toy track with all the fettling and work that needs. Obviously the pictures in this thread show I am working on that second point.

But it is tracks like the KSR we need more of. The UK size and the US quality combined.


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

Here is a big track that should get used in the UK next year:


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## demether (Aug 26, 2008)

it's really cool. I can't imagine how fast action it will provide !


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

Worth coming over the channel for?


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## demether (Aug 26, 2008)

if I had enough money...of course I'd come !


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

> Here is a big track that should get used in the UK next year:


Very impressive, for younger eyes I must add. I would have a hard time seeing an HO car on some parts of that track. I am good out to around 30 feet. Beyond that it's too far away to feel like I am actually driving the car because I cannot really see the car all that well. I've noticed that I tend to slow down and drive more conservatively the further the car is away from me. This makes sense for my driving style because I'm trying to adapt my driving to the car's behavior in real time. If I can't see what the car is doing, I will slow down to reduce deslots. This tendency can be undone somewhat with sufficient practice, closer attention to lap times, or learning how to drive properly (rhythm driving versus adaptive driving). A nice dayglow orange, fluorescent green, or neon yellow paint scheme would certainly help, as would binoculars. 

Interesting track nonetheless. Those are the biggest curves I have ever seen on an HO track.


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

The straights are routed too, 'nicked' from the crates where the 24hr track is stored.


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

Now you're talkin!!!
Is that an 8 laner?
Is it slightly banked?
This track is a dream come true!!!! (well, one of them)
It looks like a 64th scale Phoenix Raceway, on the Nascar circuit.









Just incredible....... How much would freight be to Texas?

Rich :thumbsup:
www.myspace.com/northtexasslotcars


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

It is Rockingham (The UK one).


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

Deane, your track is looking kind of puny these days...

well, at least compared to this big boy:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/columnists/jamesmay/6055335/Track-record.html

I hope you get to see the show and tell us some of your impressions.

20,000 + track pieces, 100 batteries, oh my.

More links:

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/08/19/video-worlds-longest-scalectric-track-assembled-at-brooklands/


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

Yeah, and the whole thing is a con  - once you know the inside scoop it makes one wonder how many other records are bogus.

By the way, Brad send me a batch of pieces earlier this week, so I will be checking the mail box every day now!!!


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

The pictures keep getting more interesting!



















I have more if people are interested.


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## demether (Aug 26, 2008)

I'm interested, since I'm european, and I beleive it's the first machined "pro" h0 track from europe. 

So, how much does it cost, what track sections are available ? 


thanks


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

The track is made in the USA, but if we buy jointly we both save money. Let me know, go to my site (www.eahorc.com) and email me from there....


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## demether (Aug 26, 2008)

Ah OK ! it's made in USA. Wich means high shipping cost, like the other already available sectional "pro" track brands. 


what is the advantage of this comparing to Maxtrax or wizzard ? they are both already available for a long time.


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

as you can see in the pictures, there are adapters so you can use it with Tomy track and switch over gradually.

Plus its made by Bowman, if you know of him then you know what a deal that is.


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