# Klingon D7-TOS Battle Cruiser Color Questions



## Phillip1 (Jul 24, 2009)

Fellow Modelers,
I plan on building the ERTL D7 model before too long and need help with a couple of color questions. From the AtomicCity forum website the following colors are listed for the two-tone paint scheme that both 28" miniatures carried:

Light Green Areas
>Tamiya XF-21/Gold (1 part) (Is this really correct?)
>Tamiya XF-23/Light Green (2 parts)

Gray Areas
>Tamiya XF-66/Gray-IJN Kure Arsenal 

I use only Model Master paints and would like to know what is a close match between the two maufacturers. Also, is the raised square on the winged grill section above the warp engine really painted gold/copper? The finished model shots on the Custom Replicas website are an outstanding reference. 

Any help/direction would be appreciated.

P. Gore


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## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

I'm working on the Custom Replicas D-7, but since I used a custom mix based on paint chips included with the kit I'm therefore unable to say which Tamiya shades might come closest to the mark. 

The good news is that in his assembly guide Jim Key gives a formula for mixing the correct shades of green and grey, and IIRC the brand referenced is Model Master. I've got the instructions at home, and will post Key's formula later this PM.

And, yes, the raised areas on the grills above the engines should be a pale, dull gold.


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## Phillip1 (Jul 24, 2009)

Rob,

Thanks for the response. I look forward to seeing Jim Key's paint formula. Since you are knowledgeable on the subject, can you confirm which areas are painted silver/aluminum?

Thanks

P. Gore


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## Lou Dalmaso (Jul 13, 2004)

Rob,
I thought I was pretty up on the D-7 colors, but this is the first time I've heard about the shuttle deck grills being anything but the same silver color as the grills on the engine "wings". I went to the CR site and sure enough there is a gold grill pic. 

Can I ask, what is the source of this color choice? Like I said, this is the first time I've heard mention of it.


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## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

Key researched the heck out of this thing (if you've never met Jim, he's a tad obsessive about this stuff), and according to my own reference data he nailed it.

Here's a shot I took at Paul Allen's museum in Seattle...










Not the best image I'll grant you, but if you look closely you can tell the "hangar deck" grills are, in fact, gold.

*EDIT: Although the grills appear to be gold in certain shots of both the FX miniature and Custom Replicas' reproduction, subsequent research indicates they are in fact SILVER (flat aluminum). Sorry for the confusion!*

As for which areas are painted aluminum, that would be the aforementioned grills above the engines (a dull aluminum), along with the louvered vents on either side of the forward bulb "hat."

Jim's kit includes varying widths of silver Chartpak tape with which to fill in the recessed gaps between the "teeth" at the leading edge of the hangar deck. Ditto the recessed areas on either side of the "neck" where it connects to the secondary hull.

Oh yeah; the twin sets of six short, stacked horizontal ridges at the ends of the engine pods are also dull aluminum.


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

Carson Dyle said:


> Key researched the heck out of this thing (if you've never met Jim, he's a tad obsessive about this stuff), and according to my own reference data he nailed it.
> 
> Here's a shot I took at Paul Allen's museum in Seattle...
> 
> ...


I don't doubt Jim Key's research, I know from helping on his Jupiter 2 about 20 years ago, what a stickler he is. What I wouldn't trust is the photo of the "original" prop in Seattle. After seeing how they turned the original LIS stunt Robot into an inaccurate "Fan Replica" (No offence to Fred Barton and his skills, he just did what he was hired to do!), I wouldn't trust the look of the model as it is now as what it looked like in 1968. I remember seeing good, color pictures in the old Star Trek poster books when it was first delivered to the Smithsonian and it was much grayer but they could have butchered it just as much as they did the Big E!


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## jbond (Aug 29, 2002)

This does fit in with my fuzzy memories of the original AMT artwork though--I wonder if that was a retouched photo of the actual miniature.


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## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

RSN said:


> I wouldn't trust the look of the model as it is now as what it looked like in 1968.


Well, the model shown above was originally Gene Roddenberry's. Roddenberry gave it to Stephen Whitfield (Poe), who sold it to a Beverly Hills collector in 1998. Paul Allen bought it at auction in 2004, and its current condition matches the pix found in the Profiles in History Auction #18 catalog (i.e. the museum has done nothing to alter its appearance since acquiring it). The twin D-7, the one Matt Jefferies donated to the Smithsonian, was previously re-painted for Phase 2 and "restored" for Jefferies by Ed Miarecki. So far as Profiles was able to determine, the Roddenberry model has never been significantly altered (although, given the model's age, it stands to reason it's been given a touch-up or two over the years). 

As an aside, I've discussed the Custom Replicas D-7 paint scheme with Greg Jein, who said, and I quote, "Looks pretty good to me." I subsequently learned from Jim that Greg had been consulted during production of the CR model. Suffice it to say Greg has a long history with this stuff, and if he says Jim's paint scheme looks "pretty good" that's good enough for me.

But you're absolutely right to be skeptical in general of any claims made by the Museum of Science-fiction with regard to originality. There are plenty of items in Allen's collection that are not as "original" as the museum would have us believe. 

All of which is my long-winded way of saying that the CR paint scheme is as accurate as possible given the variables.


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## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

Here are a few shots of my model, FWIW...





































Grey is a very tricky color in that differing lighting conditions can really alter the tone and hue.


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## Lou Dalmaso (Jul 13, 2004)

Rob,
would you go so far as to say that the gold is correct for the three tone "roddenberry" version only?

I have to fall back on the post series/arrival at smithsonian pics that show the two tone paint scheme and silver grills as my "go-to" colors given that I don't think the Roddenberry D-7 was ever used in filming.


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

Looks great Rob, better than the museum piece! I didn't mean to start something, my point was, so much time has passed, memories, like colors, fade. Color memory is very poor,or so they told us at the Art Institute, in humans and can be fooled by subtle shades easily. I feel, paint what looks "right" to you while including all the research info you can find!


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

Lou Dalmaso said:


> Rob,
> would you go so far as to say that the gold is correct for the three tone "roddenberry" version only?
> 
> I have to fall back on the post series/arrival at smithsonian pics that show the two tone paint scheme and silver grills as my "go-to" colors given that I don't think the Roddenberry D-7 was ever used in filming.


I would say trust the Smithsonian photos if you want an accurate "On Screen" paint job. If you can find the original "uncrated" photos from 1974 that should be the original colors. Star Trek: Phase II was 3 years off at that point so it was still the original paint when they got it. The one Roddenberry had was probably "dolled" up for the boss! I saw the Enterprise about 6 months after it went on display. Big let down with the modifications they made in Washington.


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## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

Lou Dalmaso said:


> Rob,
> would you go so far as to say that the gold is correct for the three tone "roddenberry" version only?
> 
> I have to fall back on the post series/arrival at smithsonian pics that show the two tone paint scheme and silver grills as my "go-to" colors given that I don't think the Roddenberry D-7 was ever used in filming.


Works for me, Lou.

My problem with the Jefferies model is that it was re-painted for Phase 2 and then given the Miarecki treatment before it ever arrived at the Smithsonian. Given Ed's rather loose interpretation of the 11-foot Enterprise paint scheme I can't say his take on the D-7 would be my personal "go-to" choice accuracy-wise.

As mentioned above, Jim Key spent more time than I ever would have researching this stuff, and based on my own (admittedly limited) reference I'm comfortable going with his color choices -- especially given the aforementioned endorsement by Greg Jein. 

Or to put it another way Lou; if you decided to go with silver instead of gold I would be the last guy on Earth to accuse you of "getting it wrong." 

Personally, I think we modelers spend WAY too much time fretting over this kind of stuff. Sure it can be a fun challenge to try and nail a given paint scheme, but there comes a point when you just have to slap some paint on the damned thing and get on with your life.


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## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

RSN said:


> Looks great Rob, better than the museum piece! I didn't mean to start something, my point was, so much time has passed, memories, like colors, fade. Color memory is very poor,or so they told us at the Art Institute, in humans and can be fooled by subtle shades easily. I feel, paint what looks "right" to you while including all the research info you can find!


Thanks -- and I agree 100% with your comments re: the illusive nature of color, especially with regard to studio scale modeling.



RSN said:


> I would say trust the Smithsonian photos if you want an accurate "On Screen" paint job. If you can find the original "uncrated" photos from 1974 that should be the original colors. Star Trek: Phase II was 3 years off at that point so it was still the original paint when they got it. The one Roddenberry had was probably "dolled" up for the boss! I saw the Enterprise about 6 months after it went on display. Big let down with the modifications they made in Washington.


Good points. 

I'd completely forgotten that the Smithsonian had taken possession of the Jefferies D-7 as early as 1974. Those pix could prove useful indeed -- or, given the lighting conditions, they could be utterly misleading. Case in point: the finish on the model currently on display in Paul Allen's museum (see above) and the finish on my model (see above) are virtually identical. Not that you'd ever know it from the pix.


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

Don't know about you Rob, but half the fun of this hobby to me is the research. Finding little nuggets and applying them to your build. But as we have both said, make yourself happy with final product, that's who you are making it for anyway!


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## Lou Dalmaso (Jul 13, 2004)

^^ I agree. On one hand it's kind of fun to still find something new about these 40+ year old models.

On the other, it can be a nightmare for the anal-retentive.

Unless they were retro-staged, I tend to favor these pics from the Star Trek Poster magazine that showed the models as they arrived in DC (missing nacelle caps and all)
I'll admit that they may not be color matched to todays' standards, but while you can argue over the shade of grey or green, the grills say silver to me.


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## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

RSN said:


> Don't know about you Rob, but half the fun of this hobby to me is the research.


I don't know if it's "half" the fun, but I do enjoy it. 

Thing is, even though I know I'll invariably end up going with what I think "looks right" from a subjective standpoint, I really do like being able to make an informed decision. 

The problem I tend to have with replicating studio paint jobs on a display model is that what looks good on film often does not look convincing or otherwise aesthetically pleasing in person. Irwin Allen miniatures are a prime example IMO; those two-tone "painted shadow" paint jobs helped to sell the effect onscreen, but I find the technique a bit theatrical and heavy-handed for _my own_ display purposes (others disagree, God bless `em). 

And then there are those "white" ships that aren't really white at all. Research indicates, for example, that the Proteus was originally given an off-white finish lest the reflecting studio light play havoc with the lens. Good to know from an historical/ educational perspective but, honestly, who wants an _off-white_ Proteus sitting on their shelf? If ever a sci-fi vehicle wanted a gleaming white showroom finish it's the Proteus! 

But I digress. 

One thing I do find surprising about the D-7 filming miniature(s) is the complete lack of weathering and/or shading. Given the way the Enterprise and Galileo models were weathered one would think the Klingon crusier would have been given a similar treatment. So far as I've been able to determine however the D-7 miniature(s) were completely free of weathering.

Fancy, blemish-resistant alien technology, I guess. 



Lou Dalmaso said:


> I tend to favor these pics from the Star Trek Poster magazine that showed the models as they arrived in DC (missing nacelle caps and all)I'll admit that they may not be color matched to todays' standards, but while you can argue over the shade of grey or green, the grills say silver to me.


Great archival image Lou, but as color reference I confess it doesn't do a lot for me. 

Anyway, stop obsessing with the damned grills already! If they look silver to you paint `em silver, by golly! :thumbsup:


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## Landru (May 25, 2009)

Thought these might help out.

These are pictures of the model used for filming in TOS. 

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff206/Scotty701/D7_3_4_Aft.jpg

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff206/Scotty701/D7_CobraHead.jpg

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff206/Scotty701/D7_Intake.jpg

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff206/Scotty701/D7_Stbd.jpg

The second D7 model (what we now call the 'Rodenbbery model') made was to be used as the master for the comming AMT kit. The AMT D7 kit is a half scale replica of the Rodenbbery model. I think I heard somewhere that the 'Rodenbbery model' was made first so that it could be rushed off to AMT in time for the model to be cast; that's why there are some minor differences in detail, compared to the orginal filming model. The original filming model was kept a little longer and tweeked before it was put on the model stand for filming. That's what I've heard, and it makes sence to be.
I guess they were painted with the same colours in the '60s but I dunno.

You all might find these pictures interesting too.

As you can see there is some hidden detail in the torpedo tube or deflector, or what ever it was supposed to be at the time..

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff206/Scotty701/gkerr1.jpg

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff206/Scotty701/gkerr2.jpg

These pictures are of the Rodenbbery model, note the different detail on the outboard nacelles that matches the AMT perfectly.

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff206/Scotty701/B_MODELL_D7LQ_001.jpg


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## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

Recall, it wasn't a case of the model being rushed off to be planographed for the kit. AMT MADE the models, did the tooling and THEN shipped them to Desilu.

and while it's not weathered like the Enterprise (and I do question that some, based on a few effects shots stills) I am fascinated by the use of the colors to really give all the shapes and contours definition. Was that Jefferies doing? Planning the paint to take into account the multi-gen degrading of the image in effects process work?

I mean, you can SEE it in the show, how the different shades make the front of the 'secondary hull' pop, how the 'bridge' doesn't get lost in the shape of the entire piece. Or at least you could back in the original episodes, not the digital enhanced ones.

I would imagine the D-7 wasn't dirtied down because the color wasn't 'hot' under the lights, and it was a smaller size and not meant for the closeups like the Enterprise.


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## jbond (Aug 29, 2002)

I remember AMT released the Klingon ship in a bunch of different colored plastic--there was a brown version, black, probably a blue one and a pale green one that was a very close match for the colors shown above. Definitely made them more collectible as I really wanted one of each color version.


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## Phillip1 (Jul 24, 2009)

Rob,

Great comments-entertaining and educational. Also, your D7 build looks great. It is inspirational! Did I miss it or are you still going to post the Jim Key Model Master Paint color information?

Thanks

P. Gore


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## Lou Dalmaso (Jul 13, 2004)

What I found astounding was that the D-7 studio model was so tiny compared to the others. 

The Enterprise was around 11 foot, the Romulan bird of prey looked to be over 4-5 foot across (from the behind the scenes pics floating around) and the D-7 (the main "bad guy" ship ) was a mere 30-ish inches long.

Weird

Landru,
I'm pretty sure the front of the cobra head was meant to be the deflector. the first time that area was shown as a weapon was in the animated series (it was a "beam" type). It became a torpedo tube in TMP


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## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

Phillip1 said:


> Did I miss it or are you still going to post the Jim Key Model Master Paint color information?


Yeah, sorry for the delay. Did I mention we Trek modelers tend to get carried away with this stuff? 

Here’s what the Custom Replicas instruction guide has to say about the D-7 paint scheme…




























As you can see, there’s a _lot_ of latitude here for individual interpretation.



Carson Dyle said:


> if you look closely you can tell the "hangar deck" grills are, in fact, gold.


*Correction: Although the shuttle hangar grills photograph as being gold in certain shots of the CR and Roddenberry miniatures, further research indicates they are in fact SILVER* (Lou in particular will relieved to hear it). 

Sorry for the confusion; I’m not sure how to account for the color variation found in the images (gold vs. silver), but in this case seeing is not always believing. I for one am grateful this discussion occurred, because I’m just about to paint the hangar grills on my model, and based on the pix I was using as reference I would have gotten it wrong.

It occurs to me there’s another HT member who may be able to shed additional light on the paint issue. I’ll drop him a line and see if I can persuade him to chime in…


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## Lou Dalmaso (Jul 13, 2004)

Well, that's a load off my mind! 

Now I can get back to working on that Middle East peace plan i had put aside while I was distracted!

Thanks, Rob!


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## Phillip1 (Jul 24, 2009)

Rob,

This is exactly what I was looking for! On the paint chart I notice there is no Model Master paint number given for the "Bright Blue". Does that mean Jim Key did not not know the number, or MM does not make that color? Also, the paint number given for the Intermediate Blue seems odd (five digits instead of four). I build alot of WWII US Navy Planes and the number listed does not sound right. Thanks again.

P. Gore


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## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

Phillip1 said:


> On the paint chart I notice there is no Model Master paint number given for the "Bright Blue". Does that mean Jim Key did not not know the number, or MM does not make that color? Also, the paint number given for the Intermediate Blue seems odd (five digits instead of four).


Yeah, I noticed the missing numbers as I was posting. Re: the five digit issue: those numbers reference the corresponding Federal Standard shades, and should not be confused with the 4-digit numbering system used by Model Master.

Model Master Intermediate Blue 1720 (FS 35164) is probably what you're looking for....

http://www.colorserver.net/showcolor.asp?fs=35164

FS 35044 looks far too blue to me, and I strongly suspect Jim got his wires crossed (i.e. when he typed 35044 (Insignia Blue) he should have typed 35164 (Intermediate Blue).

For the Bright Blue try Model Master Bright Blue 2032 (FS 35183).

Man, all these numbers are making my head hurt...


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## Landru (May 25, 2009)

Steve H said:


> Recall, it wasn't a case of the model being rushed off to be planographed for the kit. AMT MADE the models, did the tooling and THEN shipped them to Desilu.


Thanks for the clarification. But why would the two models have different details?

Also, is there some way of colour-correcting those photos?


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## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

I managed to glean a bit more historical info from Scott "Captain Cardboard" Alexander, who's own garage kit version of the D-7 was cast off a copy of the Smithsonian model (as was Greg Jein's DS-9 D-7). 

According to Scott, when AMT delivered the original miniature(s) to Paramount they were painted a single shade of medium grey. Matt Jefferies added the green prior to filming. The confirmation that the two-tone paint scheme actually went before the cameras came from the late Robert Justman.

1968: Because it was anticipated that both AMT miniatures would eventually go before the camera they were each given identical paint schemes. Alas, only one D-7 was ever shot, and that model was given to Jefferies after the show wrapped. The other identically painted model went to Roddenberry.

1974 (approx): Matt Jefferies donates his D-7 to NASM.

1976 (approx): Paramount "borrows" the Jefferies D-7 from NASM for use on Phase 2. While at Paramount the model is completely re-painted and disassembled. At some point the determination is made that a larger Klingon miniature is needed, after which time the model winds up with Ed Miarecki for restoration. Unfortunately, Ed didn't have proper reference data of the model's original appearance, hence the inaccurate paint scheme in evidence upon its return to the Smithsonian.

This is by no means the last word on the subject... simply a well-informed account from someone I know pretty well and have found to be consistently reliable.


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## Landru (May 25, 2009)

Thanks for the info Carson.I didn't know that these models were painted just before being filmed. 
Carson, I was very sure that, up untill now, the darker highlights of the model were painted a very light violet, purple colour. But from what you just posted, it seems more likely that AMT would have chosen a starship grey colour for their model intead of a weird purple, as they didn't know some parts of the model would be repainted just before filming.


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## WarpCore Breach (Apr 27, 2005)

The research into this ship is very thorough and informative! Thanks for posting the info, Rob!! :thumbsup:


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## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

Landru said:


> I was very sure that, up untill now, the darker highlights of the model were painted a very light violet, purple colour.


Grey will go a bit red/purple on you depending on existing lighting conditions, and I think this is where the "purple-grey hull" rumor stems from. The shot I posted from the sci-fi museum is a great example; if the hull pictured has a reddish cast it's because the model is displayed beneath A HUGE, RED, FLOOD-LIT WALL, and the red light is effecting the tint of the grey paint. In reality, the medium grey paint on my model matches the paint on that model very closely. And neither finish contains any red or purple.


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## Landru (May 25, 2009)

.......and I was looking forward to painting my D7 with a pinky purple.

But wait, I still can! HA


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## hal9001 (May 28, 2008)

Landru said:


> .......and I was looking forward to painting my D7 with a pinky purple.
> 
> 
> Landru,
> ...


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## CaptCBoard (Aug 3, 2002)

If you go back and look at Photo #47 in the Custom Replicas painting guide (posted by Rob) you can see the area that was revealed when the shuttle bay was removed. There are two tones of gray seen there, one of which very closely matches what is seen in the Smithsonian photos. I think perhaps this is where Ed Miareki (I know that spelling may not be right...) may have gotten the idea for the tone of gray he used on his restoration. Since it appeared to be entirely gray on TV, seeing that color would bring a natural assumption and that's why he repainted the ship gray before sending it back to the Smith. He had to have known the ship had been repainted for Phase II test shots, but apparently did not know the original paint was the grey and green. 

As far as I know, the only item painted gold on the ship is the diamondish shape in the corrugated field on the nacelle pylons.

Scott


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## Magesblood (May 12, 2008)

hal9001 said:


> Landru said:
> 
> 
> > .......and I was looking forward to painting my D7 with a pinky purple.
> ...


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## Landru (May 25, 2009)

The lawgivers will sort those Klingons out. You....come...


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## Tiberious (Nov 20, 2001)

Rob, if you have finished pictures of your model that you could post, it'd sure be a help to me any the many here who are just jumping into our R2 Tin box kits.

***OOOPS**** Update - Sorry Rob, found your pictures in another thread, but I'd still like to verify colors with those who didn't mix their own. I've never had rattle cans made up before, how hard is that? Also, I doubt very much that if I print that swatch sheet that the colors would come out right, is there a better way to take those colors to a paint store to have made up? About how much does this run?

So far, to avoid mixing my own it seems that the paint list is (feel free to correct me here
Base Hull - Primer Grey
Highlighted Hull - Krylon Celery Green
Wing Grilles; Cobra 'teeth'; Engine rear caps - dull/flat aluminum
Diamond highlight - ?

Sound about right?

Thanks

Tib


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## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

Tiberious said:


> I've never had rattle cans made up before, how hard is that? Also, I doubt very much that if I print that swatch sheet that the colors would come out right, is there a better way to take those colors to a paint store to have made up? About how much does this run?


Because I was given actual paint swatches by Jim Key, I was able to get an automotive paint dealer to mix up small batches that were a spot-on match to the colors I was provided.

Thing is, I really have no idea how truly "accurate" those colors are. My best advice would be to find the best match you can in a pre-mixed rattle-can, or better yet mix your own "best match" to run through an airbrush (at the scale I was working I was afraid my airbrush wouldn't provide full and even coverage, hence the rattle-can mix).

You'll find additional pix of my Cruiser here, fwiw...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/sets/72157627363392678/


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## Tiberious (Nov 20, 2001)

Thanks Rob, will stick with what I listed until/unless some more info comes to light. I checked out Custom Replicas, wow, very nice! Never sure what's still available as they don't list them out item by item from what I could find.

Tib


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## Fraley1701 (Sep 3, 2003)

Rob/Scott - 

Has the color scheme on the TOS D-7 ever been definitively clarified? I know that a few years ago there was a debate on the RPF about this and Thomas Sassar had stated that the two original models (the filming and the one AMT used to make their kits) had slightly different paint schemes. "The filming model had the three tone scheme, while the tooling model had the two tone." He also stated that none of these models were ever repainted for Phase II and that "the original three toned filming model arrived (at the Smithsonian) to be restored along with Enterprise with the three tones intact." http://thomasmodels.com/kuncrate.jpg

I really like the way Rob painted his model as it looks correct to my eye and I know Jim Key well enough to trust his judgement where accuracy is concerned. I just would like to know if a consensus was ever reached on this matter as I never found a definitive answer in the original thread. 

Thanks,
Marc :thumbsup:


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## hal9001 (May 28, 2008)

Carson Dyle said:


> Yeah, sorry for the delay. Did I mention we Trek modelers tend to get carried away with this stuff?
> 
> Here’s what the Custom Replicas instruction guide has to say about the D-7 paint scheme…
> 
> ...


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## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

I think the other colors you're referring to are those used to paint the display stand.

For my model I used two shades of green, grey, aluminum, and gold. That's it.


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## edward 2 (Oct 6, 2010)

I like the dark green used on all Klingon ships since ST-TMP.
that color blends in better with the blackness of space.
dark green and black make good camo colors for a space ship.


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## hal9001 (May 28, 2008)

edward 2 said:


> dark green and black make good camo colors for a space ship.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Notice this from personal experience have you? 

hal9001-


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## CaptCBoard (Aug 3, 2002)

Here goes...

1974: The Jefferies model is accepted by the Smithsonian. The intake papers describe the model as being two colors, a gray and a gray-green. This info comes from the IDIC Page, which is no longer online.

The IDIC Page also showed photos of the Jefferies model in several pieces, with 3 colors: gray, gray-green and a darker green. These photos were taken by the restoration people after the model was molded for Phase II. I have to assume, given the description in the published Smithsonian intake papers, that the 3rd color was added during Phase II testing. The paint test is also something that has been mentioned in the D7 mythology, but I don't know where that info comes from. From the intake papers and the matching appearance of the Roddenberry model as seen in the Profiles in History catalog, we have to assume two things. First, the model as filmed was a two-tone paint scheme. Second, Jefferies would have made sure both models were painted identically so IF the second model was ever needed for the show, at least HE knew they would match.










To my eye, using the photos from the Profiles catalog, Krylon Satin Jade is the closest match for the green, Testors Gloss Gray is the closest to the gray. Some have said Krylon Celery is a match, but I do not agree. So, get the rattle cans and have fun, or use them to eyeball a color match to run through your airbrush. By the way, the 7CS markings should be a cream color, not white, as well as the background for the Klingon Claw-Talon-Spear logo.


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## mach7 (Mar 25, 2002)

I think the Krylon celery color came from me. Thats what I painted my Polar Lights D-7. I picked that color for two very important reasons. 1. When I saw the filming model in the science fiction museum, it looked like that color. 2. The Celery was the closest I could find. My LHS did not have anything close in Testors or Tamiya, so I went to the local Ace hardware. 

To my eye it looks very slightly light. 

It is my understanding that the model I saw was the backup model that was never filmed. It was also my understanding that it had not been repainted, but both these assumptions could be wrong. 

I would say your research is much more intensive/complete than mine.

I have also used celery on my TOS Klingon disruptor with good result. I always thought that like prune juice, Klingons maybe just liked celery.


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## Tiberious (Nov 20, 2001)

I'll be lucky to find either color. I'm planning on getting both the Jade and the Celery and doing some comparison.... I've also heard some arguement over the color of the daimond shape on the wing vents. Some say gold and others the same aluminum as the rest of the vent. From the photos it's just too hard to tell. Any further insight on this?

Thanks for all the good info!

Tib


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## BolianAdmiral (Feb 24, 2009)

CaptCBoard said:


> Here goes...
> 
> 1974: The Jefferies model is accepted by the Smithsonian. The intake papers describe the model as being two colors, a gray and a gray-green. This info comes from the IDIC Page, which is no longer online.
> 
> ...


Based on the photo you showed here, and looking at both the Satin Jade and the Celery, I would have to respectfully disagree... the Celery is a spot-on match for the light green color. The Satin Jade has a wee bit too much blue in it for it to be a match. Just my two cents. Take it for what it's worth.


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## BolianAdmiral (Feb 24, 2009)

Here is a quick color comparison I whipped up to prove my point:


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## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

Gotta admit, that celery looks about right.


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## Fraley1701 (Sep 3, 2003)

These are also copy's of the pictures from the Profiles in History auction. I am not sure why, but they are a little darker than the one Captain C shared with us. 
It definitely appears to be a two tone paint job in these pictures which is how Rob painted his model. I used a color picker program to sample pixels in various areas (light to dark) of the models and come up with different matches depending on where the source color is taken from. My best guess is to either go with Jim Key's paint chart posted by Rob; which will require some mixing. or go for the best average color match using a color picker program such as this one: http://scalemodeldb.com/paint The database in this program will provide you with several close matches of various hobby paint manufacturers including Pantone and Federal Standard colors. :thumbsup:


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## BolianAdmiral (Feb 24, 2009)

I'd still go with the Celery... the Satin Jade just looks a little too blue... in fact, it's not that far removed from the Coral Blue that *Carson Dyle* used for the display stand of his yellow sub. I still maintain Celery is the best, closest, and safest match.


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## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

Is that Krylon spray paint enamel or lacquer based? I went on Google and I see it listed as enamel but most gloss enamels aren't dry to the touch in 10 minutes or able to be handled in an hour.


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## BolianAdmiral (Feb 24, 2009)

I thought it is an acrylic lacquer?


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## mach7 (Mar 25, 2002)

It's lacquer and can be a pain to work with. You need to follow the directions to the letter. otherwise it will crinkle. It also runs very easily.


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## BolianAdmiral (Feb 24, 2009)

Additionally, here are two shots of guitars painted with Krylon Celery... as you can see, sometimes the same color, in this case Celery, looks lighter, in other cases, a bit more bluish, like the Jade... but it's still Celery. 

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh248/cratz2/Guitars/IMG_0397a1.jpg

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f399/Csapo/02MIM69RIThinlineCollection-500p-1.jpg

EDIT: A note for any CG modelers who want to use Celery on a CG model of the D-7... here is the RGB color code for it:

R - 189

G - 211

B - 190


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## Tiberious (Nov 20, 2001)

Scoured the thread before asking, but can't find a thing about the paint scheme for the underside of the ship. Rob, can you post a couple of pics of yours or does anyone have shots of the underside of the gray & green production model?

Thanks!

Tib

Btw opened my tin today, no poster and the directions lack any paint directions that I saw.


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## BolianAdmiral (Feb 24, 2009)

^

You're in Washington, I'm in California, and both of our tins failed to have posters... maybe it is only an East Coast thing...


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## Fraley1701 (Sep 3, 2003)

Tiberious said:


> Scoured the thread before asking, but can't find a thing about the paint scheme for the underside of the ship. Rob, can you post a couple of pics of yours or does anyone have shots of the underside of the gray & green production model?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> ...


I don't have this kit yet, but I checked the Round 2 Web site for the KLINGON BATTLE CRUISER COLLECTOR'S TIN and it states " The kit includes the classic ship parts, decal sheet, dome style base and assembly instructions in a collector’s edition tin package." There is no mention of a poster. Are you certain this kit is supposed to have one? Is it mentioned on the box? I know some of the tins have posters, but I am not positive all of them do. I would contact Jamie at Round 2 if there is any doubt.


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## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

Tiberious said:


> Scoured the thread before asking, but can't find a thing about the paint scheme for the underside of the ship.


The underside is all green (no grey). The only other color(s) would be the port side hull markings.

Jim Key has posted some pretty good reference here...

http://www.customreplicas.com/gallery_klingon_d7.html


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## Tiberious (Nov 20, 2001)

Thanks Rob, appreciate the info. It was hard to tell from the pictures and the grilled area was far from a sure thing for me! 

Fraley1701, I know I read about the art somewhere on the packaging or instructions. I really don't care much about it, though I'd be interested in seeing it. I'd likely put it up in the garage or dump it anyhow. I'm mostly miffed about the lack of detail in the instructions, especially for those unwilling or unable to ask around....or worse, non-Hobbytalk members!

Tib


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## Fraley1701 (Sep 3, 2003)

Tiberious said:


> Fraley1701, I know I read about the art somewhere on the packaging or instructions. I really don't care much about it, though I'd be interested in seeing it. I'd likely put it up in the garage or dump it anyhow. I'm mostly miffed about the lack of detail in the instructions, especially for those unwilling or unable to ask around....or worse, non-Hobbytalk members!
> 
> Tib


Sounds like they kept the instructions from the original issue...I have built a previous version of this kit, so if I can help in any way let me know. :thumbsup:


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## Tiberious (Nov 20, 2001)

Thanks! I think I'm mostly set now, just need to get past my 'iffy' skills. 

Tib


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## Tiberious (Nov 20, 2001)

Well, down to near the end of this build, but rather at a loss on the grille under the neck. On some pictures (Custom Replicas) it's hard to tell if it's grey or green or aluminum/steel. It appears darker than the surrounding green, but it could be lighting.

Anyone know? 

Thanks,

Tib


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## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

It's the same shade of green as the neck.


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## Tiberious (Nov 20, 2001)

Thanks! If I can get the horribly fitting boom to stay attached to the hull it'll be done tomorrow! Thanks again for all your help Rob et al.

Tib


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## BolianAdmiral (Feb 24, 2009)

Has anyone also thought of trying Tamiya Pearl Green? I saw a can of it at my LHS today, and it seemed to also be pretty similar.


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## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

BolianAdmiral said:


> Has anyone also thought of trying Tamiya Pearl Green? I saw a can of it at my LHS today, and it seemed to also be pretty similar.


Not an exact match perhaps, but Tamiya makes a quality product, and that shade looks pretty damned close to my eyes.


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## BolianAdmiral (Feb 24, 2009)

Carson Dyle said:


> Not an exact match perhaps, but Tamiya makes a quality product, and that shade looks pretty damned close to my eyes.


^

Thanks. Yeah, I actually just found a perfect match for the green, and the closest match I could get to the gray... the RGB & CMYK color codes are below. The paint color for the green is Tamiya #86505 AS-5 Light Blue (Luftwaffe). 










KLINGON GREEN - RGB:

R - 155

G - 194

B - 180

KLINGON GREEN - CMYK:

C - 43%

M - 8%

Y - 31%

K - 3%

KLINGON GRAY - RGB:

R - 127

G - 127

B - 132

KLINGON GRAY - CMYK:

C - 49%

M - 38%

Y - 33%

K - 17%

If anyone knows the accurate gray paint, please let me know, since I just ordered a Round 2 D-7.


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## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

Got a big can of Krylon "Celery" at the craft store today with my half-off coupon. I used it to paint the inside of the stern hangar bay beacon on the back of my 1/000 Polar Lights TOS Enterprise which I'm building right now. It's a good match for the color of the lit beacon on the 11 foot studio model IMO. 

The Krylon comes out very runny when sprayed (as another poster noted previously) so I can see why it should be applied over a light primer coat.


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## BolianAdmiral (Feb 24, 2009)

I also got a big-arse can o' Celery... before I found the colors I posted above. I may still try it out, to see how it looks. My can came with some high-falootin' newfangled doohickey on the nozzle which lets you supposedly control the direction of the spray.


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## A/FX Nut (May 28, 2004)

Hello,

I've been looking for help with the colors for my D-7 and found this thread. I just wanted to say THANK YOU to those who contributed information.

I got mine wrong but can fix it.

Randy.


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## jlwshere (Mar 30, 2007)

Carson Dyle said:


> Well, the model shown above was originally Gene Roddenberry's. Roddenberry gave it to Stephen Whitfield (Poe), who sold it to a Beverly Hills collector in 1998. Paul Allen bought it at auction in 2004, and its current condition matches the pix found in the Profiles in History Auction #18 catalog (i.e. the museum has done nothing to alter its appearance since acquiring it). The twin D-7, the one Matt Jefferies donated to the Smithsonian, was previously re-painted for Phase 2 and "restored" for Jefferies by Ed Miarecki. So far as Profiles was able to determine, the Roddenberry model has never been significantly altered (although, given the model's age, it stands to reason it's been given a touch-up or two over the years).
> 
> As an aside, I've discussed the Custom Replicas D-7 paint scheme with Greg Jein, who said, and I quote, "Looks pretty good to me." I subsequently learned from Jim that Greg had been consulted during production of the CR model. Suffice it to say Greg has a long history with this stuff, and if he says Jim's paint scheme looks "pretty good" that's good enough for me.
> 
> ...


I came across this photo of the unboxing at Smithsonian. As the endcap of the TOS E is in the photo, I presume this is from 1975 but could be wrong. Monitor color drift aside, I actually see three tones:

Dark Gray - Top of hull
Lighter shade of Green/Gray (Concrete?) - Neck, parts of head.
Dark Green/Gray - Engines

If this was delivered in 1975, that would have been before "Phase II" presumably, with TOS paint job. Having said that, I am of the belief that you paint your models the way you remember them or think they look best.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

I was thinking that the Phase II production team got a hold of it first and repainted it. IIRC, it was painted all gray later on and put back on display at the Smithsonian and then later painted to match the slightly different AMT prototype (that still had its original paint job). Please, someone correct me if I'm not remembering this right.









D7 class model


Though only introduced in the third season of Star Trek: The Original Series, the Klingon D7-class battle cruiser, despite its limited number of appearances, captured the imagination of the audiences, and went on to become one of the most signature ship designs of the franchise. Ironically, the...




memory-alpha.fandom.com







jlwshere said:


> I came across this photo of the unboxing at Smithsonian. As the endcap of the TOS E is in the photo, I presume this is from 1975 but could be wrong. Monitor color drift aside, I actually see three tones:
> 
> Dark Gray - Top of hull
> Lighter shade of Green/Gray (Concrete?) - Neck, parts of head.
> ...


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## FlyingBrickyard (Dec 21, 2011)

I'm kicking myself for not being able to locate the pics I took from the Smithsonian display c1992. I must have taken 50 or 60 pictures of the ships on display - with an eye toward modeling reference. I specifically remember focusing on the K'Tinga (and to a lesser degree the D7, as it was much simpler) and the Refit Enterprise.

Might need to look through things again - though I fear they may have been lost in a late 90s basement flood.


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## Milton Fox Racing (May 27, 2014)

Hopefully not! The negatives would still be usable if they were flooded, just need to be cleaned.


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## Chris Appel (Feb 8, 2021)

The uncrating photo definitely looks like the 3 tone paint scheme applied for Phase II after they took molds of the model. It's a nice color scheme in it's own right. There were a couple of snapshots of it on the old IDIC page, which can be reached using the Wayback machine. Link to IDIC article on D7 model There's also some fun history info on model there.

Also, someone had commented on the relatively small size of the filming miniature compared to the miniatures built in house. This is because it was designed by AMT as a "2 Up." Folks here are probably aware its common in toy manufacturing to prototype at twice the scale of the intended product and then pantograph down to final size. Since this was intended for a kit to accompany the AMT Enterprise kit, and since AMT was footing the bill for the creation of the prop, not Paramount, it was done to their specs. 



jlwshere said:


> I came across this photo of the unboxing at Smithsonian. As the endcap of the TOS E is in the photo, I presume this is from 1975 but could be wrong. Monitor color drift aside, I actually see three tones:
> 
> Dark Gray - Top of hull
> Lighter shade of Green/Gray (Concrete?) - Neck, parts of head.
> ...


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## mach7 (Mar 25, 2002)

Having seen the 2nd filming miniature in the science fiction museum in Seattle years ago, the unboxing photo is not the original paint. As posted it was probably for phase 2.

The one I saw was part of the Paul Allen collection and had the grey/purple top with light green neck and underside.

I imagine the late Mr. Allen acquired it in the late '80s or early '90s. I wonder how it escaped getting repainted by Paramount.

Edit:

I found a photo I took of it, it was in a glass globe so it was hard to get a good photo.


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## Chris Appel (Feb 8, 2021)

Prior to Paul Allen buying the model, Scott Poe, formerly of AMT models, owned this master copy, which the AMT kits are based on. Gene Roddenberry and Matt Jefferies were friends of Poe (under the pen name Scott E Winfield, Poe wrote The Making of Star Trek back in 1968.) Poe brokered the deal for having AMT make the D7. This second master was given to Roddenberry, who later gave it to Poe as a 'thank you' for his part in making the Klingon ship happen. Poe kept it until about 1998, when medical bills forced him to put it up for auction. According to Poe, this was the original paint scheme Jefferies put on both models. 

However, period photos and show footage indicate that only this second model had the little 'apostrophe' after the three Klingon characters. Also, note how different the color scheme of the markings is from most kit decals. The green trifoil swoosh is only a bit darker and more pure than the underside hull color. In photos of the bottom of the ship it almost blends in. The circle in the trifoil appears to be a cream color, possibly the same as the Klingon letters (or perhaps only slightly more yellow.) It's possible that the text yellowed over time, but if so, it yellowed very consistently. I doubt this was ever white, like the kit decals. The studio model currently sports markings more like the AMT kit decals, but if you look at the markings from the earlier Phase II repaint, they are consistent in color to this photo. This also matches the description in the Smithsonian intake record, quoted on the IDIC page, and an interview quote from Matt Jefferies, where he described the Manta ray color scheme.

On a side note, AMT ( Aluminum Model Toys) was very savvy about licensing. Not only did they pitch the Klingon ship idea to Star Trek, but they built the full size Galileo shuttle exterior seen on the show. They also built the Piranha spy car for The Man from UNCLE in exchange for the model kit rights.


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## mach7 (Mar 25, 2002)

Thanks for the back story!


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