# nacelle revisited



## jwrjr (Oct 31, 2003)

I've got the prototype TOS nacelle done. Anybody want to see it, maybe tell me how I did? I should have video of it avaikable within a day or two.


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## ThomasModels (Mar 8, 2000)

Yes! Show us!


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## jwrjr (Oct 31, 2003)

Being a video, I doubt that I can post it here (too big). When the video is done, I'll send it by email to anybody who requests it.


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## RossW (Jan 12, 2000)

I'd love to see the video, James.


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## JGG1701 (Nov 9, 2004)

Me too ! Me too ! :wave:


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## guartho (May 4, 2004)

Here here! Let's see this piece of work.


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## jwrjr (Oct 31, 2003)

The video is a bit fuzzy, but available. Due to bad luck with computer crashes, it is best to assume that I don't have email addresses (unless I can attach onto an email sent through here). That's the real reason I need an emailed request.
A production model would differ from the prototype in two respects. A. the prototype is done with only red leds. The production version would use red, yellow and green leds. Also the production version would have at,least 1 always-on led in the middle.


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## jgoldsack (Apr 26, 2004)

I can host it if you want. Unlimited bandwidth and all.....


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## TrekFX (Apr 15, 2004)

jwrjr said:


> A production model would differ from the prototype in two respects. A. the prototype is done with only red leds. The production version would use red, yellow and green leds. Also the production version would have at,least 1 always-on led in the middle.


You know, there should be some blue in there also... :wave:


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## Ignatz (Jun 20, 2000)

Oh hey, I resaved it as a loop and uploaded to my server so I can refer to it wherever I'm at. If jwrjr doesn't mind I can publish the url to the movie.


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## jwrjr (Oct 31, 2003)

TrekFX - I can do that. That is the sort of comment I was looking for when I made the video available.
Ignatz - feel free to do that. I'll see if I can't come up with some video where the focus is better.

As is usual for me, we have a fairly simple circuit with some nasty programming in it.


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## Ignatz (Jun 20, 2000)

Sure thing. Here it is:
http://www.forbiddenplastic.com/jwrjr_nacelle/naclsim.mov

It looks really good to me. I'd love to see how this looks with the different colored lights and under a frosted dome. I suspect it'll look fantastic.


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## KUROK (Feb 2, 2004)

WOW! SLICK!
I think you nailed it.


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## guartho (May 4, 2004)

Except for the big circuit board complete with chip sticking out the side. That'll NEVER go in a nacelle without serious modification, which kinda negates the purpose. Way to go!  











(And just in case you couldn't tell, yes, I'm kidding. I know it's a prototype and not intended for installation. Although,it looks like you could just cut the bread board between the LED's and the chip. Looks to me like there's enough play in the wires to allow installation. Hey, check it out, my disclaimer is longer than my actual post!  )


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## jwrjr (Oct 31, 2003)

I always intended for the ones to be installed to use two circuit boards - a display board with the leds on it and another mounted as a "T" sticking out behind it with everything else on it. If the display board can be made small enough this should be usable in the PL 1/1000 TOS model.


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

The original studio model used these colors of lights in a disc of ten under each dome/fan assembly:

 Red-Amber-Green-Amber-Red-Amber-Green-Amber-Blue-Amber

Two of the amber lights (on opposing sides of the disc) were steady on. The rest flashed at random.


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## ThomasModels (Mar 8, 2000)

Those colors changed. I assume bulbs were replaced after some blew out. Why the nav lights on the bottom of the saucer changed from red/green to white has still got me stumped.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

http://www.forbiddenplastic.com/jwrjr_nacelle/naclsim.mov


Is it a video loop issue making it falsely appear as though all the lights momentarily go off?


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

I stumbled across this somewhere. I think it was during an altavista:image search...

Appears to be the work of some fellow Star Trek nerd who has too much time on his hands.


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## jheilman (Aug 30, 2001)

Trek Ace said:


> The original studio model used these colors of lights in a disc of ten under each dome/fan assembly:
> 
> Red-Amber-Green-Amber-Red-Amber-Green-Amber-Blue-Amber
> 
> Two of the amber lights (on opposing sides of the disc) were steady on. The rest flashed at random.


While I aree with the 10 lights and the color scheme, it's always been my understanding that 5 of the lights (in a pentagon) were always on and the other five flashed randomly. Combined with the shutter effect of the fan blades, this made it look as though more flashing occured. I'd be most curious if you could share some evidence to the contrary.


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## jwrjr (Oct 31, 2003)

I'm sort of curious as to who posted that video ... as it wasn't me. That does, however, look like a short video that I shot of my prototype.
What I was trying to do was to simulate 1. a 10-light array with a 12-spoked 'wheel' rotating in front of it and 2. 3 flashers turning lights on and off. Yes, from time to time all of the lights will go off.
I do plan to make counter-rotating sets of those available for those who want them. But I have a show coming up and preparing for that must take precedence.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

Actually it was originally part of a quote I did of Ignatz' post #12 of this thread. You had given him permission to do a link to it in your post #11, jwrjr.

I quoted it so the entire working URL would be transfered into my post. 

But since my question wasn't really directed to Ignatz though I took out the other quoted info so Ignatz didn't think I was asking him the question.

Sorry. Thought you would recognize the link.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

jwrjr said:


> What I was trying to do was to simulate 1. a 10-light array with a 12-spoked 'wheel' rotating in front of it and 2. 3 flashers turning lights on and off. Yes, from time to time all of the lights will go off.
> I do plan to make counter-rotating sets of those available for those who want them. But I have a show coming up and preparing for that must take precedence.


Is there a way to redesign it so it's never off?


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## jwrjr (Oct 31, 2003)

I wasn't planning on exploding at the poster. I just knew that I didn't post it and wondered who did.
If somebody can direct me to a good view of the nacelle - good enough so that I can do a better job of picking off the flasher pattern - then I will modify the pattern. That is just hard to do when one can only see a second or two of the nacelle from the front.


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## mactrek (Mar 30, 2004)

The only good shot I can think of happens in "Metamorphosis" as Scotty and the Enterprise finally finds Kirk and company.

_Edit..._ How about the "Ultimate Computer" as the Enterprise is leaving the space station?


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

How about the shot where the Tholians are closing their web around the Enterprise?
The one that was featured in one of the old TOS posterbooks...


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## RonH (Apr 10, 2001)

ThomasModels said:


> Why the nav lights on the bottom of the saucer changed from red/green to white has still got me stumped.


The lower saucer lights were always white. After the series was 'digitally remastered', those lights were suddenly colorized in some scenes.


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## Ignatz (Jun 20, 2000)

Chuck PR. Yeah, the momentary off is the loop starting again. 
jwrjr, Sorry, I thought I cleared posting the clip for you so that everyone can have a chance to see your handywork. If you want, I'll take it down.


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## jwrjr (Oct 31, 2003)

mactrek - 'Metamorphosis' is where I found the short clip that I tried to work from.

I'll have to check out 'Ultimate Computer' and 'The Tholian Web'. o.t. - I see that the sfx shop in Mythbusters is called 'M5'. Connection to 'Ultimate Computer'?

Ignatz - no need to do that. Like I said, I just wondered who posted it since I didn't.


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## Heavens Eagle (Jun 30, 2003)

Hey jwrjr. Glad to see you managed to get the circuit and assembly language going on the circuit. Depending on the wiring, how many lines are actually going from the circuit IC to the LED display? I can do a circuit board for this and have some local access to board manufacturers. Also it looks like the best thing would be a surface mount unit if available.


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## drewid142 (Apr 23, 2004)

*Where the fancy set up came from*

That fancy nacelle set up with the "Planetary Gear Box" seen above is from Jim Keys 66 Inch TOS Enterprise kit. You can see the parts laid out at the link below, along with a fantastic build of it, and you can see more about the creation of the kit at the second and third links below.

http://squaremodels.com/66enterprisepage1.htm

http://www.customreplicas.com/For_Sale.htm

http://www.customreplicas.com/Enterprise.htm


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## jwrjr (Oct 31, 2003)

Heaven's Eagle - I've found (tentatively) a pc board manufacturer who's prices aren't too bad. There will be 11 leds on the display board - one constantly on in the center and 10 flashing. Therefore there will be 12 lines from the control board to the display. Why separate boards? The display board dimensions depend on the scale of the model (optimistic, huh?) but the control board need not change. The control circuit is very simple - a voltage regulator, 1 controller, and a resistor for each led plus one. The trick is fitting it into the nacelle. A 1/350 nacelle is easy. An AMT nacelle is no big problem. A PL nacelle can probably be done. (The problem with fitting this into a PL nacelle is the display.) The biggest problem that I am running into is that the pcb program that I am using insists on adding a border with mounting holes, and I have yet to figure out how to turn that off. If you can do better than I can, I would be interested in hearing about it.
Drewid142 - The color distribution of those leds looks similar to what I will be usingSure would be nice to be able to afford the $8000 and build that 5 1/2 foot model. It would take forever detailing it properly, though.


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## Ohio_Southpaw (Apr 26, 2005)

jwrjr said:


> Heaven's Eagle - I've found (tentatively) a pc board manufacturer who's prices aren't too bad. There will be 11 leds on the display board - one constantly on in the center and 10 flashing. Therefore there will be 12 lines from the control board to the display. Why separate boards? The display board dimensions depend on the scale of the model (optimistic, huh?) but the control board need not change. The control circuit is very simple - a voltage regulator, 1 controller, and a resistor for each led plus one. The trick is fitting it into the nacelle. A 1/350 nacelle is easy. An AMT nacelle is no big problem. A PL nacelle can probably be done. (The problem with fitting this into a PL nacelle is the display.) The biggest problem that I am running into is that the pcb program that I am using insists on adding a border with mounting holes, and I have yet to figure out how to turn that off. If you can do better than I can, I would be interested in hearing about it.
> Drewid142 - The color distribution of those leds looks similar to what I will be usingSure would be nice to be able to afford the $8000 and build that 5 1/2 foot model. It would take forever detailing it properly, though.



jwrjr, I do printed circuit board design for a living, so if you need one laid out real quick without any mounting holes I can do it for you easily. Drop me a PM if you need the help.


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## drewid142 (Apr 23, 2004)

*that big E*

Actually the price of one of the 66 inch Enterprises is only $3,000. The $8,000 price is to buy the masters. I organized a group buy a few months ago and am awaiting delivery... but I won't tackle building her until I've gotten my chops on some much smaller kits.


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## jwrjr (Oct 31, 2003)

As I said earlier, expanding this chaser display to fit the larger nacelles is the easy part. Let me know if you (drewid142) are interested.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

jwrjr, can you arrange the circuit so all of the LEDs are never completely off or motionless?

Also, I've found some led products that have up to 40 Leds on a circular disks of varying sizes, meant to be all lit via bayonet or other such 12volt lamp connection.

Would it be feasible/easier/possible/helpful to make use of such a device if it were canabalized?


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## ThomasModels (Mar 8, 2000)

drewid142 said:


> That fancy nacelle set up with the "Planetary Gear Box" seen above is from Jim Keys 66 Inch TOS Enterprise kit.


 Actually, that was a pic I took a few years before the 66" kit when I was prototyping a large scale nacelle lighting setup back in '99. It worked great with randomly blinking and constant on LEDs behind a spinning fan.


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## jwrjr (Oct 31, 2003)

Can I arrange so that the leds are never completely off or motionless? Yes. Controlling the leds is possible for almost any pattern imaginable. It is just a matter of settling on what is the 'correct' pattern.
Those led sisks are intended to be replacements for incandescent bulbs. Very useful for that. But we would need to break into it and make the leds individually controlable. They are not intended for that. Nor are the colors likely to be the right pattern. Do-able for a single person or single set, but not practical for even a small production run.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

Chuck_P.R. said:


> I stumbled across this somewhere. I think it was during an altavista:image search...
> 
> Appears to be the work of some fellow Star Trek nerd who has too much time on his hands.





ThomasModels said:


> Actually, that was a pic I took a few years before the 66" kit when I was prototyping a large scale nacelle lighting setup back in '99. It worked great with randomly blinking and constant on LEDs behind a spinning fan.


I stand corrected!

It is the work of a fellow Star Trek nerd who *doesn't have enough* time on his hands. :tongue:


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

How about an arrangement the abandons the random on/off pattern and instead has the "fanblades" simulated by entire rows of leds going off in successive order? The ten to twelve(how many slices were the production spinning nacelles divided into by the way?) blades simulated by the off leds?

It would take quite a few LED's, are there other possible problems with such a design?
I'm curious to see how it would look...

Maybe some 3D modeling genius could do a simulation that wouldn't require a hardware setup?


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## jwrjr (Oct 31, 2003)

Actually, the way I went about building this was to first simulate (mathematically, anyway) a 12-spoked wheel moving in front of 10 lights. Then, I added a 3-channel flasher to make the sets of lights flash on and off. Changing the flasher patterns would be no major problem as long as I know what the pattern should be. That's the hard part.


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## KUROK (Feb 2, 2004)

jwrjr said:


> Actually, the way I went about building this was to first simulate (mathematically, anyway) a 12-spoked wheel moving in front of 10 lights. Then, I added a 3-channel flasher to make the sets of lights flash on and off. Changing the flasher patterns would be no major problem as long as I know what the pattern should be. That's the hard part.



As I said on page one of this thread, his pattern looks dead on to me. Please continue this project!


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## jwrjr (Oct 31, 2003)

Ohio_Southpaw is helping me out on this, so they might be available sooner than expected. (crossed fingers)


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## KUROK (Feb 2, 2004)

Oh yeah, I forgot to ask, will the two nacelles counter-rotate?


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## jwrjr (Oct 31, 2003)

Yes, they will counter-rotate. I will also mirror the led colors to match. So there will definitely be a port module and a starboard module.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

So they will both have to be powered on simultaneously I take it, to get the two to sync properly. Plus you'll probably want to mark the insides of the PC boards that hold the LED's so that they are positioned(not just port/starboard but 12'oclock-6'oclock)for the proper synchronization?


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## jwrjr (Oct 31, 2003)

The modules will have to have some sort of orientation marking. As for timing, the easiest way would involve a 'reset' lines from each module tied together.


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## spe130 (Apr 13, 2004)

There is a decent, if not terribly long, view of the nacelles from above, the front, and to the starboard side in "The Changeling" - it's right after the sickbay scene where Nomad repairs Scotty. It's not a great episode, but I'm working my way through TOS in broadcast order.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

spe130 said:


> There is a decent, if not terribly long, view of the nacelles from above, the front, and to the starboard side in "The Changeling" - it's right after the sickbay scene where Nomad repairs Scotty. It's not a great episode, but I'm working my way through TOS in broadcast order.


I kind of liked that episode. I have always thought that the powers that be ripped of the entire plot and embellished it in order to write the screenplay for ST, The Motion Picture, even down to the confusion of Kirk's name with V'ger being confused with Voyager.

Perhaps it wasn't done purposely, but I always thought that it had to at least have been done on a subconscious level and that the original episode author was due some royalties.


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## spe130 (Apr 13, 2004)

"Journey to Babel" - during Spock's log entry after Kirk is stabbed, there is a long, extremely clear shot of the port nacelle cap. I don't remember that shot showing up anywhere else, and as clear as it is, it had to have been filmed for the episode. :thumbsup:


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## jwrjr (Oct 31, 2003)

I appreciate all of these suggestions and will be (or have been) checking them out.


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## spe130 (Apr 13, 2004)

I've been watching TOS again - if I run across any more excellent shots of the nacelle caps, I'll let you know. That shot from "Journey to Babel" is the best I've noticed yet.

Update: "Deadly Years" and "Obsession" both have some good looks at the nacelle caps. Just before the fight with the Romulans and when they prepare to fire on the gas cloud creature, respectively.


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## spe130 (Apr 13, 2004)

Ok, one last post. The shot of the _Enterprise_ pulling away from K-7 at the end of "The Trouble With Tribbles" gives such a good look at the nacelles that no further shot listings will be necessary. :thumbsup:


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## spe130 (Apr 13, 2004)

Well, so much for that - there is a nice shot towards the end of "The Gamesters of Triskelion" and two excellent long shots towards the start of "The Immunity Syndrome." :thumbsup:


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## jwrjr (Oct 31, 2003)

I check Hobbytalk at leaast daily. Even if I'm not posting much, I read and appreciate everything that is posted here.


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## spe130 (Apr 13, 2004)

I'll keep posting especially nice shots as I work through the rest of Seasons 2 and 3. Then you can work up the "all nacelle" clip show. :lol:


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## spe130 (Apr 13, 2004)

"Is There In Truth No Beauty" has some great, long nacelle shots after the insane Lawrence Marvik sends the big E through the galactic barrier.


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## mactrek (Mar 30, 2004)

jwrjr, 
Just wondering if you have any updates. How things are going?


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## jwrjr (Oct 31, 2003)

I have an appearance at a Science Fiction convention to make this coming weekend, and I've been working on being prepared for that. Sorry. Once this is done I can attend to other things ... like the nacelle circuit.


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## spe130 (Apr 13, 2004)

"Let That Be Your Last Battlefield" - around the 20 minute mark. A couple of nice shots from unusual angles.


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