# HO track rail options wanted



## X2ioner (Jun 4, 2009)

Hello Racers

I am currently trying to get all my info together and can use some help, I want to make my first Routed track but am looking where I can purchase the rail, I see in McMaster carr they have Stitching Wire which I have read somewhere it can be used, have any of you know tried from another source?

is there such a thing as 430 stainless rail?

Thanks


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## Tsooko (Oct 15, 2009)

Try here
http://www.wcjwire.com/
The wire is in the flat wire section. you can get it in .017" and .020 thicknesses. They will send samples if you ask nice. I have used the .020 stuff with good results. The only problem is that you have to buy a large amount. They also have stainless steel.
Sometimes you can find some on e-bay.
hope this helps.
Cheers Ted


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## X2ioner (Jun 4, 2009)

Thank you Tsooko


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## neorules (Oct 20, 2006)

I got rail for the first continuos rail track ever built for racing, from Lapham Hickey Steel company. I gave them a sample of rail from a piece of Auroura deep slot track which is the standard this hobby was built on. It is .015 x .150. You have to buy at least 3 800ft coils. In the 80's it was about $60 per coil, but is the best choice from which to build a track in my opinion. I sold the coils I didn't use to other racers wanting build continuous rail tracks.


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

X2ioner if ya want a sample piece PM me with your address.

.017 x .105 galvanized, gotta check with supplier but probably around $25-$30 + shipping per 10lb roll. which should be near 1500 ft.

Also fits Tomy track like it was made for it :thumbsup:


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## Sir Slotsalot (Jan 23, 2010)

Try considering Ni/Fe wire:

http://www.slotcarexpress.com/TRACK-BUILDING.html


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## Tsooko (Oct 15, 2009)

X2ioner
There are two schools of thought for power rail wire. The first is flat or stitching wire, The second is round wire.
Many have tried rebar tie wire for power rail. This is an iron wire and usually has a higher magnetic downforce then the tomy flat wire rail. It is very hard to fit in the groove and gets corroded very quickly making track cleaning a common occurance. 
The flat wire ( stitching) requires that you put in a lock wire with the flat wire which takes some time and effort.

I have been testing out some round wire that is ni/fe from the new sponsor of the track building forum here: http://www.slotcarexpress.com/TRACK-BUILDING.html
This wire is easy to install and provides the same downforce as tomy wire. Another advantage of this wire is because it is round, the shoe wear is almost non existent, and it doesn't corrode or carbon up like other choices out there. Also when the cars slide over it in drifts, the wheels don't catch like on flat wire flipping the car. 
Here is a video of the round wire being put into a sintra track and a video of cars running on the wire on a mdf track
I highly recommend this for anyone considering building a track. 











Check out the website.
Cheers Ted
:wave:


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## fsmra (Feb 28, 2005)

Contact brad bowman, he will sell you the exact rail you need, either tomy, or round or his original short rail. Len at Sabatona.com bought the rail from brad when he converted sabatona from braid to rail - - ciao

Michael Block


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## Sir Slotsalot (Jan 23, 2010)

Brad Bowman's business is track building and he sells tracks. He buys power rail from distributors mainly for his own use.

Slot Car Express is a distributor of power rail materials for track building.

Ciao


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## neorules (Oct 20, 2006)

I would tend to agree with Mike and go with some conventional wire. The freak wire(Round) has driven some of my friends out of the hobby. Also the value of your track can be negatively affected when it comes time to resell. I'v never understood why someone would go through the expense and trouble of routing a track and then put in rail that you couldn't run all classes from t-jet to unlimited. As I've said before we should not stray to far from the rail this hobby was founded on. I don't see them going to sqauare rims in the NBA!!


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## Rolls (Jan 1, 2010)

I don't follow, neo... How'd round wire drive friends out of the hobby? 

Also, on the newer round wire, wouldn't all classes of cars run on round wire if it has the correct rail height if it really has the same mag characteristics as Tomy flat?


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

Rolls said:


> I don't follow, neo... How'd round wire drive friends out of the hobby?
> 
> Also, on the newer round wire, wouldn't all classes of cars run on round wire if it has the correct rail height if it really has the same mag characteristics as Tomy flat?


Same way braid does, setups for standard rail do not translate well to the *lol* "freak" wires as neorules so eloquently put it. When you get a dozen guys and 2/3 have Tomy/Tyco tracks at home, if a main hosting venue throws a round-rail or braided track into the mix, it's not very likely that the plain-rail owners are gonna setup their best cars to run better on someone else's track...it makes their home tracks basically useless. In short, you can't just go from flat rail to round rail and expect the same performance from each.

As to "all classes"...it's again more about setup right down to arm choices and brush tension. Round wire offers a significantly smaller contact patch, becoming a bottleneck in the circuit even moreso than what we are continually trying to overcome using conventional rail. As your rail interface weakens, heat buildup in the circuit is more likely to occur as your cars try to suck up the power they normally use. If you've never seen the full potential a given chassis has to offer it may not be noticable, but to a good builder the differences are like night and day.

neo at those price of that stuff I don't think there's too much to worry about. :drunk:


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## Rolls (Jan 1, 2010)

Thanks for explaining, Swamper. Much appreciated. :thumbsup:


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## Sir Slotsalot (Jan 23, 2010)

All the cars we tested were set up on Tomy rail. When we tested the same cars on round Nickel / Iron wire, they ran significantly smoother and held speed consistently at fixed voltages. Note, we set our test track rail height at .012".

Motors actually ran cooler with very little carbon residue or wear on the p/u shoes. The rear tires also did not catch the rail’s edge and flip in the turns because wire has a rounded top. As for the p/u shoe contact area, the .045 dia gives the same surface area as the Tomy flat rail. You will have virtually no set-up changes to make. You just have to make adjustments to your enjoyment level when you experience the increased performance.

Our Ni/Fe round wire is designed for track builders who want to greatly improve performance over the standard "toy" rail and "toy track" lack of quality. If you go to all the trouble of building a track, why use backwards technology on the power rail? The small price differential is worth the increase in performance and longevity of the product. Your HO cars will actually perform like real slot cars and not toys.


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

How about electricians fishing tape? It's flat and has rounded edges to reduce wear.


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## Sir Slotsalot (Jan 23, 2010)

As far as electrical conductivity, there is no comparison. Nickel is superior to coated steel or galvanized coated re-bar. For those of you who are not concerned about raising the quality and performance of your hand-built track, What can I say? Stay "low-tech" if you must.


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

> As for the p/u shoe contact area, the .045 dia gives the same surface area as the Tomy flat rail.


lol and we were all born yesterday. You could _double_ the size of the round rail and still won't be at 50% of the surface area of a piece of Tomy rail. Computers make all this kinda stuff very easy to visualize....a 450 pixel circle and a 150 pixel wide rectangle will demonstrate perfectly the relationship between a flat .015" rail and a round .045":










...not even _close_. I mean like not even 25%....a "crest" that small will wear pickup shoes just as easy as a flat rail, especially with a nice hard nickel finish.

And according to just about any other source, Zinc, which is the most commonly used coating in modern galvanized steel, is far more conductive than Nickel. Of course I'm open to viewing any credible resources that would explain otherwise. 

The Tyco/Tomy/Buck/Maxx and other tracks I've both built and raced on are a far cry from being either "low-tech" or "toy tracks". Besides the snake-oil pitch, you've just insulted a very large percentage of this forum...not a good way to drum up sales.


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)




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## Sir Slotsalot (Jan 23, 2010)

Sorry if any one is insulted. Not our intention and we apologize. But no "snake-oil" here. We have done a lot of research and track testing to form our opinions about this product. As for coated wire, coatings wear off. Alloy material remains the same. We can debate things all day long. All opinions are welcome but it would be refreshing to hear from people who are open to new ideas.


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

It's cool...new ideas are fine but round wire is not really a new idea, and so far it hasn't gone over well in this hobby in part for the reasons I mentioned earlier especially that contact patch issue, so we stick with the tried and true that is used by the majority. Neo's been in this hobby a long time and I have no doubt about his claim as I've seen it myself with braided tracks, it's no joke that people migrate away if drastic and largely unnecessary change is introduced. So in the big picture "new and improved" is not always best. You can have all the bells and whistles in the world, you can absolutely love your pristine big dollar track...but if no one else feels the same, you're either racing alone or racing on someone else's "conventional" track.


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## Sir Slotsalot (Jan 23, 2010)

Gene,

Forgive my approach. I should probably emphasize to everyone that our business is not aimed at professional circuit racers or large clubs who must conform to strict rules. 

This is about the home track builder who wants to have fun, improve performance and quality over plastic track, entertain family & friends, and above all, no rules. Heck, theres a guy out there making a track completely out of metal. How wild!! What rules is he conforming to? For me, it's all about having fun and trying new things. I'm sure you can appreciate that aspect of the hobby.


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

Might I suggest a review of this thread....

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=287392


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## Tsooko (Oct 15, 2009)

When I was given some of this ne/fe wire to test and asked to build a track to send to the supplier I was very skeptical about it's performance.
Theories and speculations aside "the wire works great!!! "
As some have followed my track builds on this site and other slot car sites you all know the journey I have been on concerning track building. I have not ever raced on a store bought track and jumped right in with building my own routed tracks. 
I now have a cnc router and have cut out several tracks and experimented with many aspect of home track building. I cannot tell you how many pieces of track have hit the garbage trying out various methods and products. 

Although the hard core racer has specific requirements concerning track and rules, there is still a lot of difference from track to track. Ask him why he wants to get there early to test his settup, even though he may have a track built to the same specs as the track he is going to race on at home.

The home builder is a different breed of cat. His requirements is to have fun with his kids and family and friends. He is not so much concerned about rules.
In fact it is my contention that rules for racing is to keep the cheater from gaining a unfair advantage.The honest person just complies with the majority.

Concerning the nice drawing of the contact patch of the flat versus the round wire the reality does not comply with the theory for Ho cars with this wire. There is no negative impact on the cars or the power supplies. The power packs do not heat up or the cars, that I have run on my test track oval. I built another oval to test long term effects of the round wire.The second oval I built has one lane in the ni/fi wire and one in the stitching wire so I could test them side by each. ( The first oval is the one in the video and sent to the owners of Slot Car Express for testing purposes. ) In fact there are many advantages. One is that there is less arcing between the wire and the cars' shoes giving you GREATER electrical continuity, not less. This translates into less wear and tear on all the components of the slot car!!! Especially the shoes!!!

Please remember that this wire is not like most wires out there in that the metallurgy is maximized for conductivity and corrosion resistance.

The ne/fe wire even though is a bit more money per foot, is less in cost as you do not have to buy a lock wire at $10.00 per 100 ft roll that is needed for the flat/ stitching wire. Finding the right diameter lock wire has always been a problem. Lock wire IS NOT NEEDED for the ni/fi round wire.
The placing of the wire as you can see by the video is simplicity in itself. Route the slot with a .045" machining bit, roll the wire in to get it to conform to the shape of the slot, pull it back out, apply the ca glue and roll the wire back in. Spray on some accelerator and you are done . It took about 1/4 the time to get the ni/fi wire in as it took for the stitching wire
Also when you buy the flat wire you have to purchase way more then you need as there are minimum purchase amounts from the manufactures.

Slot car Express has provided the wire in various amounts so you can order what you have need, not tons that you have to get rid of or give away. 
And, no, I do not have shares in the company!

This is not just another round wire but a viable, new solution to the power rail question!!

Advantages: Better conductivity, cooler running motors, less brush wear, smoother car operation, less track maintenance, no carbon build up , less arcing, easier to apply, less time to apply.

I now have a roll of 3000 feet in my house and the next tracks that I build will have this wire in them. It is that good!!

Oh yeah, anyone want to buy a completed track with copper coated stitching wire? I need the room for another track. Guess which wire I'm going to use?

One other thing. If you are going to build a track with elevation changes, think about how easy it is to bend a round wire in the vertical. Why as easy as it is to go around corners on a flat track. Try bending a flat wire on the wide side and see how hard that is. :freak: :drunk:  think of the possibilities. How about a rally track?

Cheers Ted:wave:


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

Gene good pic,but your not factoring in wear and tear on the rail.Never yet seen a rail that won't wear,and when a round wire wears,it's gonna eventually be relatively flat.I can see one advantage to this rail,and it is the wear factor,the more it wears down,the slower it's rate of change will be,till it hits the center point of the wire,by that time the tracks wore-out.Never yet seen a slotcar track with the guide-pin groove wore-out,but sure seen lots of tracks with the rails wore down to nothing
The more i look at this wire the better it sounds.:wave:


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

Hornet said:


> Gene good pic,but your not factoring in wear and tear on the rail.Never yet seen a rail that won't wear,and when a round wire wears,it's gonna eventually be relatively flat.
> The more i look at this wire the better it sounds.:wave:


NiFe is much harder, copper shoes will not likely wear it "flatter" in any reasonable amount of time. Plus, to do so to any advantage would require you to "wear" the wire nearly flush to the track surface.

And speaking of wear...just how reputable and thorough is the testing being done? In my book when some says "...but I get tired of replacing p/u shoes after about 100-200 laps...", they need to learn a little bit about setup.

Has anyone tried a load test on like a 50' section of this stuff? NiFe Alloys are generally sold for use as heating elements, welding wire, and _resistance wire_. Rick if you're still running the high-power stuff as you were a few years back, this should be of some concern to you. If nothing else, I'd at least want to know what specific NiFe standard this alloy is conforming to. Ted, do you happen to know what specific alloy is being used? That one bit of info would settle a lot of questions.


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## Tsooko (Oct 15, 2009)

WE seem to be going back and forth between the two threads. I'm getting outta here and will continue this on Sir slots-a-lots thread.
cheers Ted


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

That's one of the reasons i was kinda liking this wire,was it's wear factor.Good point about it's use as a resistance wire though,i hadn't give that much thought,and it's something that i should of given thought to.
Might have to do a load test on a section first,out comes the old 12volt heater motor:thumbsup:
Ted have you got enough,we can cut off a couple of 65 ft sections and give them a load test,i'll bring a meter with me and my old heater motor,have you got a semi-decent battery charger
Personally Gene,i don't think the shoes do much to wear the rails,it's more the fact of the magnets dragging then the shoes in my opinion.
You always want a car and magnets to groove in,and that's personally where i think 90% of rail wear occurs,grooving things in.A shoe's a pretty soft material in comparision to the rail,where-as a magnet,especially a neo mag,is quite a bit harder material and i personally think the magnets cause most of the wear
I'm like you on shoes though if i don't get a coupl'a thousand laps outta a set even on a neo car,somethings wrong,usually the track needs work at the section joints if shoes are wearing fast


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## Tsooko (Oct 15, 2009)

Ok. I give, I'll play in this puddle too.
This discussion is getting interesting.
Hornet. I have 3000ft of this wire. I'm sure we can cut some 60' chunks to test the draw of. I have a 6 amp battery charger that is pretty small, but I do have a 12 volt cat battery that is huge. Will that work?
If there is significant voltage drops over long lengths, won't taps on the power rail solve that problem. Seems to me guys like taps every 30' or so anyway? and this wire is very easy to solder.
Cheers Ted


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

LOL,should'a known a northern AB native would have a D8 battery laying around,yea it'll do,but just barely:wave:
I take it that's used to boost the car on a -40 morning:wave::wave:
Put together a box already with a small charger in it,but your Cat battery should suffice,lol.
Have you got both styles of rail Ted,stitching and nickel,probably should do a chunk of both for comparision purposes
I'll bring up a couple of neo cars with me


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## Tsooko (Oct 15, 2009)

Yep got both for testing also got some of the stitching wire in a copper coated style. the battery is left over from my trucking days. I kinda thought it would come in handy. It does run the heater for the igloo most of the winter, yehp. F1 Brasil is on soon .Talk at you latter. 
Ted


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## Sir Slotsalot (Jan 23, 2010)

Grandcheapskate said:


> Might I suggest a review of this thread....
> 
> http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=287392


I do love Bachman's take on using railroad rail, especially if it were nickel-silver!!


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