# My 4x8 is finally down!



## twolff (May 11, 2007)

I've been literally messing with this for years. Profound laziness dictated a 4x8table. The layout started as a Tuckaway 25 streched to 4x8. I added some 18" curves and some interest with decreasing and increasing radius turns. It is fun with pancake motors and TycoPros/Curve Huggers. It's too small for any magnet cars I've tried. This may change once I'm off wall warts for power.

It's all Tomy track screwed down with #2 x 3/4" flat heads. 194 of them. If I do this again I'll conntersink all the screw holes first as it is the easiest and most likely way to ruin a section of track. All the locking lugs were cut off to help eleminate bumps where the sections join together. Contact points cleanned and coated with a small dab of dialetric grease. I added an additional screw hole to the 15" "straight" hump track  sections and to the three 9" 1/4 radius turns used. I intended to use all 1/8 radius turns, but the three 1/4 radius used were a better fit in getting the straights parallel to one another. There's a lot of tweeking needed on the screws and conutersinks. Seems I overestimated both my ability to drill 194 straight pilot holes and a screw's willingness to follow said pilot hole when screwed in.

Time to get off my butt and get to work on driver's stations and wiring.


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## jstudrawa (Mar 20, 2008)

Looks really good and well laid out! Landscaping plans at all?


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## JordanZ870 (Nov 25, 2004)

For a guy who proclaims his laziness for the world to read, you sure put that track down quite securely! Nice, clean looking layout! :thumbsup: (mag cars are over-rated anyhow. lol!)


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## tjd241 (Jan 25, 2004)

*Nice design....*

Good choice on the 4 laner twolf. That looks like a *great* track for the non-maggies... maybe even some of Mike King's Fun-Jets. nd


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## twolff (May 11, 2007)

I've started the basic wiring while I mull over what I want to do for driver's stations. I've pretty much crossed both alligator clips and banana plugs off the list. I will fuse the power line at each station and use a switch to reverse direction at each one. Also looking to incorperate adjustable brakes. Anyone know what a dimmer switch "looks" like to an 18v DC circuit?

The pine boards that I used for walls will go and get replaced with white laminate. I plan on adding a pit lane to the infield straight, but that about it as far as landscaping goes. It ain't a model railroad 

Oh. Gotta border it too and finally make all 4 lanes useable for the pancake motor cars.


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## rudykizuty (Aug 16, 2007)

*Locking Tabs*

T,
What method did you use to remove the locking tabs from the track? I've been trying a few different ways on some test pieces. Some have not come out so clean :freak: All are very much a PIA. 
Thanks.


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## roadrner (Jul 21, 1999)

Nice layout. May have to steal it for a door track version. Shouldn't have to scale it sown too much. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: rr


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## twolff (May 11, 2007)

rudykizuty said:


> T,
> What method did you use to remove the locking tabs from the track? I've been trying a few different ways on some test pieces. Some have not come out so clean :freak: All are very much a PIA.
> Thanks.



Yep, a PIA 

I used an Xacto knife and cut the small top tabs off once I figured out that I could leave the heavier bottom nub in place. There was a noticable difference in the hardness of the plastic among the sections. The blade went through some like butter and other were brittle as hell. Grinding them off with a dremel would have been faster and probably made a bigger mess. I also tend to "slip" alot with a dremel. I broke enough doing all this by hand. I also broke a bunch of the little "fingers" that are cut into the track to allow the z bend in the rail to deflect when the sections are joined. That was by far the biggest pain.


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## twolff (May 11, 2007)

roadrner said:


> Nice layout. May have to steal it for a door track version. Shouldn't have to scale it sown too much. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: rr


You are quite welcome to do so. Please post it when you do.


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## rudykizuty (Aug 16, 2007)

twolff said:


> Yep, a PIA
> 
> I used an Xacto knife and cut the small top tabs off once I figured out that I could leave the heavier bottom nub in place. There was a noticable difference in the hardness of the plastic among the sections. The blade went through some like butter and other were brittle as hell. Grinding them off with a dremel would have been faster and probably made a bigger mess. I also tend to "slip" alot with a dremel. I broke enough doing all this by hand. I also broke a bunch of the little "fingers" that are cut into the track to allow the z bend in the rail to deflect when the sections are joined. That was by far the biggest pain.


Dremel was my first option. My experience was not a good one. To begin with, the various grinding attachments I tried didn't really "grind" anything. It was more like the friction heating the plastic and just moving it in clumps to wherever the grinding attachment wasn't. So I went from having the locking nub on the tab to one or two balled clumps of styrene on the tab. And those were the ones where I didn't slip and completely destroy the tab when trying to avoid making clumps. Very "flustrating" as Charlie Manuel would say. 

Next I tried the cutoff wheel. Same result. Tried it on the lower tabs and the spacing involved did not give me the opportunity for any straight cuts. 

And maybe it's just me trying to be too careful, but the Exacto knife seems like it needs more elbow grease than I have been willing to put into it to get the job done. Can I see me creating an unwanted hospital visit with one of those? In a word, umm, yeah. 

Unfortunately, I'm out of test pieces and am down to the sections that I really need to complete the project. I may just say the heck with it and glue the pieces together so they won't separate and create any bumps.

PS I really like your track. Nice clean look to it. :thumbsup:


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## Crimnick (May 28, 2006)

I found a lock back razor knife with a new blade worked really good for removing the nubbies...:thumbsup:


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## twolff (May 11, 2007)

My experience with plastic and Dremel tools usually results in melting too. The razor is not as bad as it sounds. I didn't draw any blood doing mine


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## twolff (May 11, 2007)

Been fooling with the power wiring. It's all in place, but some of it is going to me moved and shortened. My order from allelectronics.com shows delivered, so I should have a driver's station in place this weekend. WOOT!


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## GAGS (Apr 22, 2008)

Please school a new guy on 4X8 tracks. Can you run a Wizard Storm or a G+ on this track. Wich cars are these exactly. I have just built a 4X8 track, my G+ cars are falling off. I also have a Wizzard Storm that I hve not run yet on the new track, a couple of Tycos and I am now getting in to T-Jets. I have 4 terminal tracks with a power pack for each lane. All of my cars were very fast on my 2 lane set up (AFX Giant Race Way).


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## Scafremon (Dec 11, 2006)

twolff said:


> I've been literally messing with this for years. Profound laziness dictated a 4x8table.


 There is something to be said for being lazy, taking your time, and building a really clean track. Nice job!



> 194 of them.


 Are you sure? Because I was looking at the pictures, and counting the screw heads, and also looking back at your design, and I'm thinking....wait a minute! Your build does not match the design!

You got bunches of 6" straights along lower straight, and your design has 15" jobbers there.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I am afraid you need to start the build over.

:thumbsup:


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## GAGS (Apr 22, 2008)

Please forgive the new guy. What track sections are 25t01, 2528 and 2533


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## jstudrawa (Mar 20, 2008)

25t01 = 18" 1/8 curve
2528 = 12" 1/8 curve
2533 = 15" 1/8 curve

Download either Slotman (http://www.slotcarmanager.de/) or Ultimate Racer 3.0 (http://www.uracerweb.org/) and get to messing around


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## GAGS (Apr 22, 2008)

Is the 18 " curve a stock section?


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## BRS Hobbies (Feb 16, 2006)

Yes, The TOMY AFX 18" 1/8 curve is available.

Best regards,
Brian


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## twolff (May 11, 2007)

Scafremon said:


> There is something to be said for being lazy, taking your time, and building a really clean track. Nice job!
> 
> Are you sure? Because I was looking at the pictures, and counting the screw heads, and also looking back at your design, and I'm thinking....wait a minute! Your build does not match the design!
> 
> ...


Thanks.

I bought 200 screws, didn't lose or throw any and had 6 left over.

Most of the 15" straights are hardly straight, so I used straighter 6" peices where it worked. That straight looked like a damn chicane with 15" peices There are three 9" 1/4 curves in there too because they worked better for getting the straights parallel than the 1/8 curves. Laying it down and screwing it down are two different matters as shown:


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## twolff (May 11, 2007)

Panels for the driver's stations are built, but still need wiring. The controller cables are 5-pin DIN connectors. Directional and brake switches with adjustable brakes.

If you ever use the blank wall plates, make sure you get soft ones. These are Leviton brand from the local Do It Best hardware. The first set (which I ruined drilling holes in the wrong places) were hard and brittle as hell. They remined me of bakelite. These are much easier to work.


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

Very slick!


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## bobhch (Apr 22, 2007)

*Nice looking panels....Sweet!*

Yeah that is Smooth looking...or as Bill said, "Very Slick!"


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## twolff (May 11, 2007)

Finally finished up the wiring over the weekend. The driver stations were a chore to wire, but after the first four, the rest are a walk in the park. The 5-pin DIN cables worked out great. The induvidual wires are a bit on the small side so I doubled up on the black and white and left the Red (brake) wire as a single conductor (using all five pins). The shell also has bare lead. I decided that it was better to not have that bouncing around in the controller. The cable clamps into the bottom of the controller handle for a nice strain relief. I've got two more controller to wire. Maybe tonight?? The cables were 5-pin DIN extension cables and extensions can be just plugged in. I've gotta remember to order some more.


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## twolff (May 11, 2007)

There's still a lot of tweaking to the track joints to be done. The cars hop and click (loudly) in a few places. My nephew and I had a blast running a pair of worn out Tomy SRT cars with rock hard shiny rear tires around Sunday afternoon. T-Jets love it. All my cars run better actually. Getting off wall warts probably has someting to do with that. For the first time in years, all four lanes are hot  Once the track joints are "good enough", I'll do something with the screw heads and add some borders. I'm prob. going to use the border material Greg Braun sell on his site. It won't break the bank on a layout this small. Then the pine boards will be replaced with laminated shelf stock that I found wandeing through the home improvement labyrinth known as Menards. The cars are just what I had handy. After opening a few of the boxes stored under the table, it has occured to me that I have way too many cars. I should lay 'em all out for a group photo.


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## RiderZ (Feb 19, 2007)

*!!!*

Nice Job twollf!!!:thumbsup:


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

That looks like a very race worthy little layout. I like it!


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## tjd241 (Jan 25, 2004)

*Great!*

That's a nice neat deal there TW. :thumbsup: nd


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## Stoosh (Feb 13, 2006)

Hey TWolff, are those the controllers you bought off me? If so, It's great to see that they are being used on such a nice layout. Good job!
Mike (stoosh)


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## jstudrawa (Mar 20, 2008)

As they all said, I agree it looks very sharp and clean.

My one question is... is that a foosball (sp?) table? Was never a fan, so Ebay that and make another 4x8 or even larger!

I mean honestly, why stop if there's still money in the account?!


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## twolff (May 11, 2007)

Stoosh said:


> Hey TWolff, are those the controllers you bought off me? If so, It's great to see that they are being used on such a nice layout. Good job!
> Mike (stoosh)


Yep. They are 90 ohm controllers now though. I've also got a couple more vintage (orange metalflake) econos that will get the 45 ohm resistors. My Tyco and some of the SRT cars need 3/4 throttle to get moving with the 90 ohm resistors. The red one is smooth as silk and the blue one "crunchy" as hell. Something else I'll have to figure out. Thanks again.


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## twolff (May 11, 2007)

jstudrawa said:


> As they all said, I agree it looks very sharp and clean.
> 
> My one question is... is that a foosball (sp?) table? Was never a fan, so Ebay that and make another 4x8 or even larger!
> 
> I mean honestly, why stop if there's still money in the account?!


It's a Fooseball table  There's also a bumber pool table, an air hockey table, and in the back of that pic. my biggest nemissis...the dreaded exercise bike 
But, I can watch the 47" LCD television from it 

The finished part of the basement is 975 sq. ft. so going bigger would be a 1/24th scale track. I've been looking for one cheap and close enough. The 325 sq. ft. that's unfinished is Sump pumps, storage and my RC airplane shop.

I've been kinda hinting with the wife that we should blow our "stimlus" check on a pinball machine 

This is a shot of the room on the other side of the door next to the track.


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## twolff (May 11, 2007)

All four lanes and 4 controllers operatable! Strangely enough, I've been really enjoying running LifeLike T chassis on 18 volts. Tyco 440x-2 are smoother and quieter. The mag cars are in vogue because we can run all four lanes w/o borders. My AFX and Magnatractions hit a "wall" in a couple of places on some laps. The cars stop and bounce back like it ran into something. It's either the blade/guide pin or the pickups hitting the slot or rail. Also seeing the AFX and T-Jets bouncing the front end down the long infield straight, but not on every lap?


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## twolff (May 11, 2007)

It continues.

Watching the Gran Prix of Malaysia this past summer got me thinking about adding a chicane to the layout. The one I wound up adding added some 6" curves but the track flows much better through the whole section all the way through the big outside turn on the left. Removing the short straight between the infield turns that lead into the left end of the track seems to have had a lot to do with they way the track drives.


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## twolff (May 11, 2007)

I've been running the above layout until this weekend. The tight turn leading into the long infield straight annoyed the hell out of me. The cars had to crawl through the tight turn with the driver mashing the throttle on exit. If you accelerated too soon, you usually desloted for sure. The cars also tended to wheel hop like crazy exiting the turn and mashing the throttle to accelerate down the straight.

The sweeper feeding the infield straight is a blast to drive. You can squeeze the trigger all the way through and hit full throttle just as you reach the straight. It "peels" the right rear tires off T-Jets that will dirt track all the way around it. A bonus was the elemination of the 15" infield straight. I never liked it and cars seemed prone to deslotting entering and exiting in spite of the wide turns on either end. This layout also runs very nicely the other direction. In some turns better that in the designed direction.

Ultilmate Racer 3's track design is MUCH easier to use than the version I started with last year. I saved 9 additional layouts just playing with it last night.


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## twolff (May 11, 2007)

Here's another layout I was taken with while fooling with the layout software. Lots of 18" curves. I'd need to buy another 6 18" and 4 15" curves to try it out. Wondering if it is worth the effort?? The infield turns are kind of irregular in shape because the radi had to be mixed up to get the ends to meet. You thoughts are welcome.


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## bemoore (Dec 23, 2008)

twolff said:


> Anyone know what a dimmer switch "looks" like to an 18v DC circuit?


Dimmer switches are for AC use only, and they're not rated for inductive loads (like DC motors). I don't recommend trying it.


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## twolff (May 11, 2007)

bemoore said:


> Dimmer switches are for AC use only, and they're not rated for inductive loads (like DC motors). I don't recommend trying it.


Used pots for adjustable brakes:

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showpost.php?p=2373079&postcount=21


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

Yes, AC lighting dimmers are not well suited at all for controlling DC.


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## bemoore (Dec 23, 2008)

bemoore said:


> Dimmer switches are for AC use only, and they're not rated for inductive loads (like DC motors). I don't recommend trying it.


I have been corrected on this. Dimmers are available now for different type loads, but they're still only for AC power.


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## twolff (May 11, 2007)

Ordered the extra track to build this one. It looks too good on paper to not at least try.


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## twolff (May 11, 2007)

Well that last layout was good for inducing sleep running T-Jets 

This one adds some intrest in the infield and opens up the faster sections a bit. All the lanes flow well and each drives differently. The ability to change layouts is both a blessing and a curse.


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## slotnewbie69 (Dec 3, 2008)

nice looking layouts.wish i had more space....grrr


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## twolff (May 11, 2007)

THIS feels like the one!

Edit: I've been running this layout since I posted it on 3-26. It is going to get screwed down. The flow is very good. It has not gotten dull for me to drive and is easy enough for 11 year-old boys to run "doggy" XTractions at 18v w/o deslotting on every trip through the infield. I setup a couple of IROC style Fast and Furious XTractions last Saturday for my son's birthday party and stored everything else. Those cars were running almost non-stop for 4 straight hours.


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## Milton Fox Racing (May 27, 2014)

I have that drill press, but none of the plane parts!


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## tankbert (Jun 22, 2021)

Hi twolff,

I am new to the hobby. I don't know if you still use hobbytalk.com. I came across this 2009 discussion about your 4x8 setup 

I just bought the AFX International set and also have a 4x8 tabletop. I wanted to build a 4-lane layout like your final "circuit27.jpg" picture. Or maybe you have adjusted it since 2009? I know I'd have to purchase some additional larger radius curve tracks but I'm having a hard time determining what the curve sizes are from the JPG picture. I'm sure I'll have to buy more 18-15-12 inch curves. Do you have an inventory list of how many curves and straights of each size are in your final layout? Or maybe a layout picture that lists all the track sizes?

Hoping this message finds you well.

Thanks


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## Milton Fox Racing (May 27, 2014)

Welcome to the boards @tankbert 

A lot of our members dont post much but do lurk around still. You can hover your mouse over their name or avatar image and it will show the last time they visited the boards. Or you can click on either one and open a conversation with them (PM). Good luck with making the connections.


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