# This Excelsior will be the end of me



## MLCrisis32 (Oct 11, 2011)

Hello everyone! So after many attempts failing at correctly airbrushing I finally became decent enough to where I stopped sanding/repainting. Surprisingly airbrushing the Tamiya chrome silver was easier than the flat white by a great margin. (And clean up) This is my proudest moment so far.










Sadly I screwed up trying to make my own gray color and as it turns out Tamiya flat white + Tamiya light gray = weird sea greenish gray. I didn't like it at all so I sanded her down and started over. Another unfortunate thing is that the raised panel lines are now gone. The recesseed panel lines are slightly jagged as I tried to scrape them out without a proper tool. I finally decided it was "good enough" considering how much time I've spent un-warping parts, puttying, sanding, puttying again, sanding too much, re-puttying etc.










Also I've learned that masking + airbrushing is much less prone to bleeding under the tape than hand brushing. I'm pretty pleased with the engines. I don't think I'll attempt it for the main hull dark gray bits but here's hoping for steady hands tomorrow. 










Now I just need to airbrush some Future, glue the rest together and pray nothing goes wrong. :thumbsup:


----------



## irishtrek (Sep 17, 2005)

Those painted parts look great!!:thumbsup:


----------



## MLCrisis32 (Oct 11, 2011)

irishtrek said:


> Those painted parts look great!!:thumbsup:


Thanks! One thing I've learned is that acrylic paint is incredibly easy to chip/scrape/scuff. Enamel has it's downfalls (smelly, hard to clean up, takes forever and a week to dry) but at least my Reliant didn't flake paint off because I looked at it funny. :freak:

I'm hoping to get the little details painted tonight, spray the parts down with Future over the weekend and then glue her together.


----------



## irishtrek (Sep 17, 2005)

I've discovered that if you apply a coat of Future before you paint with acrylics then the paint is less likley to come off.


----------



## MLCrisis32 (Oct 11, 2011)

irishtrek said:


> I've discovered that if you apply a coat of Future before you paint with acrylics then the paint is less likley to come off.


If that helps then so be it I shall do it as well! I've done some tests at low psi on a spare piece of styrene and got a really nice, even coat with it using multiple passes. (after painting).


----------



## hal9001 (May 28, 2008)

I don't get it. If you didn't like the color it came out why did you sand it down as opposed to just painting over it?

hal9001-


----------



## MLCrisis32 (Oct 11, 2011)

hal9001 said:


> I don't get it. If you didn't like the color it came out why did you sand it down as opposed to just painting over it?
> 
> hal9001-


Unfortunately I laid too much paint down and it was already hiding details so adding another coat didn't seem like a good idea. Plus I am still new to this, live and learn etc.


----------



## hal9001 (May 28, 2008)

Understood. Try putting your paint down in thin layers rather than one heavy layer. See how that works. Maybe thin your paint some too. Try that.

Another good tip is to take and old model, if you have one, and test spray mixed paints to get a feel of how it looks before committing to the 'real' model.

Airbrushes take some getting use to. I think you'll find the more you use it, the easier it gets! Be patient and you will learn to love it and can't do without it.

Good luck.

hal9001-


----------



## irishtrek (Sep 17, 2005)

To remove unwanted paint colors you don't always have to use sandpaper to remove the paint, instead why not invest in something like say a bottle of Pine-Sol and a good sized tub to poor it into and then you can soak your model parts for a few days and then use a stiff nylon brush to get the paint off?? Believe me when I say it will help to save the detailing like raised panel lines, even if they are inaccurate for Star Trek models.


----------



## seaQuest (Jan 12, 2003)

I think the reason your custom color didn't turn out the way you thought is because there is actually blue pigment in white. The only pure white is Titanium White. The blue pigment in the white may have mixed with the light gray in a way you didn't expect.


----------



## MLCrisis32 (Oct 11, 2011)

irishtrek said:


> To remove unwanted paint colors you don't always have to use sandpaper to remove the paint, instead why not invest in something like say a bottle of Pine-Sol and a good sized tub to poor it into and then you can soak your model parts for a few days and then use a stiff nylon brush to get the paint off?? Believe me when I say it will help to save the detailing like raised panel lines, even if they are inaccurate for Star Trek models.


Definitely something to keep in mind next time I paint myself into a corner, so to speak.



seaQuest said:


> I think the reason your custom color didn't turn out the way you thought is because there is actually blue pigment in white. The only pure white is Titanium White. The blue pigment in the white may have mixed with the light gray in a way you didn't expect.


Good point because the mixture didn't look sea green/duck egg blue but boy when it fully dried it did! I noticed that Tamiya flat white is jot nearly as pure white as my 1/1000 refit that has Testor spray white enamel.


----------



## MLCrisis32 (Oct 11, 2011)

hal9001 said:


> Understood. Try putting your paint down in thin layers rather than one heavy layer. See how that works. Maybe thin your paint some too. Try that.
> 
> Another good tip is to take and old model, if you have one, and test spray mixed paints to get a feel of how it looks before committing to the 'real' model.
> 
> ...


Thanks and you're right the more I use it the less I want to hand brush anything. I just need to nail down the paint to thinner ratio.


----------



## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

MLCrisis32 said:


> the more I use it the less I want to hand brush anything.


I hand brush very little now, rattle-can freak here!:lol:


----------



## WarpCore Breach (Apr 27, 2005)

You can't beat the control of a double-action airbrush! They do take getting some used to (I was warned about that when I was first handed one to try) but I found I could control it easily enough. Still needed to practice, though and I'm still working on the paint/thinner ratio balances. Apparently my approach is very hit and miss! LOL!


----------



## Seashark (Mar 28, 2006)

For paint removal, you may also want to try Easy off oven cleaner; Tamiya is the only paint I've found that is impenetrable to Easy off.


----------



## irishtrek (Sep 17, 2005)

MLCrisis32 said:


> I just need to nail down the paint to thinner ratio.


Acrylic paints from Testors aka Model Master do not need to be thinned and niether does the Tamya acrylic paints, in fact the only acrylics I've found that need to be thinned for an airbrush is the type that craft stores stock.


----------



## MLCrisis32 (Oct 11, 2011)

Quick question to airbrush people out there do you sand your painted models with fine grit paper before clear coating?

I've found that using my detail master kit (3200-12000 grit) takes the 24hr dried Tamiya paint off even with the slightest of pressure and gently sanding it. I did this with my Reliant (all enamel rattle cans/hand painted) and never had an issue.


----------



## MLCrisis32 (Oct 11, 2011)

irishtrek said:


> Acrylic paints from Testors aka Model Master do not need to be thinned and niether does the Tamya acrylic paints, in fact the only acrylics I've found that need to be thinned for an airbrush is the type that craft stores stock.


Oh? That's interesting because everything I've read says it should be "milk like in consistency" so I just add about 1/3 the amount of thinner to paint. Maybe it's just Tamiya flat white but straight out of the bottle that stuff clogged my brush in about 3 seconds.


----------



## irishtrek (Sep 17, 2005)

I've only been airbrushing for about a year now and to be perfectly honest the paints I mentioned have been the only ones I've used, so far but that may change some day.
The MM paints sometimes need to be thinned a bit and so far I've not encountered any Tamyia acrylics that need to be thinned and so far I only got about 15 Tamyia colors on hand.


----------



## machgo (Feb 10, 2010)

MLCrisis32 said:


> Quick question to airbrush people out there do you sand your painted models with fine grit paper before clear coating?
> 
> I've found that using my detail master kit (3200-12000 grit) takes the 24hr dried Tamiya paint off even with the slightest of pressure and gently sanding it. I did this with my Reliant (all enamel rattle cans/hand painted) and never had an issue.


This was refuted in another discussion, but I will say what I believe to be true: acrylics are soft, and EXTREME care must be taken when sanding them. I would not bother sanding acrylics before a clear coat. Lacquer paints, on the other hand, sand beautifully.

As far as thinning, I always thin Tamiya acrylics before airbrushing, although you can get them to go through unthinned. Thinning lets you get some transparent effects, pre-shading, and your paints go farther...


----------



## MLCrisis32 (Oct 11, 2011)

machgo said:


> This was refuted in another discussion, but I will say what I believe to be true: acrylics are soft, and EXTREME care must be taken when sanding them. I would not bother sanding acrylics before a clear coat. Lacquer paints, on the other hand, sand beautifully.
> 
> As far as thinning, I always thin Tamiya acrylics before airbrushing, although you can get them to go through unthinned. Thinning lets you get some transparent effects, pre-shading, and your paints go farther...


Thanks for the reply and while I only have a very limited experience with Tamiya, and Vallejo Air, acrylics I'd have to say I agree with you. I've used spray lacquer and enamels on two other kits without any issues sanding. I'd have to use below 320 and serious muscle to accidentally sand through the paint layer once dried.

All I did was as gently as possible wet sand using 3200 grit detail master paper and the raised lines on the secondary hull came right off. Maybe I need to let it cure for more than 24 hours? I know water cleans up acrylic but I thought after using a heat gun on the parts (saw this on youtube) then letting it sit for a day would be long enough.


----------



## charonjr (Mar 27, 2000)

Acrylic is water soluble. I don't know if it retains that solubility after drying.


----------



## MLCrisis32 (Oct 11, 2011)

Finally progress!

The stress this build has given me forced me to take a hiatus otherwise it was going in the trash. I finally calmed down, picked up some DLM decals and started to go to work.

Hoy boy are these things fragile! Now first thing's first: I want to thank Don and others for making great decals for discontinued kits. Without him and others many of us would be SOL. 

That said though I followed the instructions and coated them with a brushed on layer of decal film but I've already lost a couple decals in the application process. (The blue stripes on the impulse engines top and part of the registry lines). While they are beautiful and so much better than painting all those little areas of detail they feel like working with wet newsprint. I even ruined a one of the red stripes that would have gone along the base of the nacelle joint but my finger somehow took the paint right off the decal just by touching it. Maybe someone has a stronger coating they can suggest for next time?

Now for the horrendous lining up job on the rim? That's 100% my doing. 









You can see where I just cut the decals and took off the mangled bits that would go around the two "fins" by the impulse crystals. Trying to slide them into place with a toothpick/qtip scratched the paint off the decal surface. I didn't have this issue with R2 decals on my Reliant. 









This is the only angle where the hull stripes look lined up so I chose to show this one.


----------



## irishtrek (Sep 17, 2005)

She's looking good there!!:thumbsup:


----------



## MLCrisis32 (Oct 11, 2011)

irishtrek said:


> She's looking good there!!:thumbsup:


Thanks! I've luckily been very busy with work so hopefully I can find time to finish up the rest of the ship soon.


----------



## seaQuest (Jan 12, 2003)

Acrylic paints do not wash off after drying. My good friend Randy Vandal (R.I.P) was asked that question innumerable times when he worked at Kit Kraft. To the point he wanted to tear his hair out.


----------



## MLCrisis32 (Oct 11, 2011)

Sorry that was full of whine. Due to accidental destruction of my dlm decals be decided to shelve this for now.


----------



## kdaracal (Jan 24, 2009)

Sad to shelve, but awesome work, nevertheless.......


----------



## MLCrisis32 (Oct 11, 2011)

kdaracal said:


> Sad to shelve, but awesome work, nevertheless.......


Thanks. After cooling off, and my wife suggesting I try to just finish it, I have done just that. I'll post images once I get some of the fixes in place but for instance the trench on the bottom saucer decal was ruined so I just painted it the same light blue as I did the nacelles. I also painted the impulse top stripes in the same color to replace those decals. Sadly the top saucer registry and stripes were ruined (peeled right off) so I will have to purchase more of those online as the originals are in really rough shape.

Also if anyone can post their tested process of making custom decals (what type of coating testor decal bondor or other etc) I'd greatly appreciate it. I brushed on Microscale Decal Film 24 hours before I attempted to use them and they still tore, chipped and peeled off after application.


----------



## MLCrisis32 (Oct 11, 2011)

Okay so after cooling off and putting it away yesterday I decided to try and salvage the old gal. I painted the lower saucer to replace the now destroyed decals: 










Here is a zoomed out view of what I was able to use. I have to paint the phaser bumps still. 










I was able to use one of the top graphics, the other one tore, so I used one of the bottom patterns. I quickly noticed the difference (stepped vs solid line) so I just cut the stem off of the other and placed it over the "good" one trying to minimize the mismatch:


----------



## irishtrek (Sep 17, 2005)

Now that is looking really good!!!:thumbsup: Can't wait to see her all finished.


----------



## Dyonisis (Nov 11, 2009)

Even though I'm not a Trekkie geek, I love the saucer. The decals on that are cool! It reminds me of when we used to go to Burgerchef to get the racecar box that came with the kids meals. Nice, bright colours with lines all the way around. Your drink went in the back, and the rest of the meal sat in the front of the Indy style car. I wonder if there's anything like that on evilbay? They'd want a fortune for most of those types of things since they're not available anymore. 

~ Chris​


----------



## MLCrisis32 (Oct 11, 2011)

irishtrek said:


> Now that is looking really good!!!:thumbsup: Can't wait to see her all finished.





Dyonisis said:


> Even though I'm not a Trekkie geek, I love the saucer. The decals on that are cool! It reminds me of when we used to go to Burgerchef to get the racecar box that came with the kids meals. Nice, bright colours with lines all the way around. Your drink went in the back, and the rest of the meal sat in the front of the Indy style car. I wonder if there's anything like that on evilbay? They'd want a fortune for most of those types of things since they're not available anymore.
> 
> ~ Chris​


Thanks and I should have done this sooner but here's a link to the finished ship thread: http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=366079


----------

