# How is it done?



## Karl_Kolchak (Aug 30, 2005)

Hello all,

I am new to this forum and I am looking for the definitive guide
to plastic model creation. Not how to put them together and paint them.

How they are manufactured from concept, first proto, tool making, injection molding, and packaging. 

Does anyone know of a single source or sources for this information?
I need specific written info from the experts in the field. Let's get technical!!

There used to be a post on the Ertl website long ago titled "How a Tractor is made" that had some real good info. Alas, this is gone.

Thanks all!!

Kolchak


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## ChrisW (Jan 1, 1970)

Didja ever hear about the Vampire that worked nights at Wal-Mart? He was the _Night Stocker_...

Anyway...there is a book out about the history of the Revell Model Company, written by Tom Graham, who occasionally posts on these boards. In it there is a pretty decent explanation with photos of the model design and production process.


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## Mark McGovern (Apr 25, 1999)

Chris White said:


> ...there is a book out about the history of the Revell Model Company, written by Tom Graham...In it there is a pretty decent explanation with photos of the model design and production process.


 Ditto Mr. Graham's history of the Aurora Plastics Corporation. Also _Classic Plastic_ (I forget the author's name - anybody care to jump in here?). And _FineScale Modeler_ magazine has run an article or two on the subject in the past.


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## justinleighty (Jan 13, 2003)

Dave Metzner, formerly of PL, could probably give you a primer here.


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## Zorro (Jun 22, 1999)

Mark McGovern said:


> Ditto Mr. Graham's history of the Aurora Plastics Corporation. Also _Classic Plastic_ (I forget the author's name - anybody care to jump in here?). And _FineScale Modeler_ magazine has run an article or two on the subject in the past.


Rick Polizzi. _Great_ book.


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## Tony Vincenzo (Aug 30, 2005)

Have We Run Out Of Things To Do Around Here??? Kolchack, Get Back To Work!!!!!!!!!!


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## Seaview (Feb 18, 2004)

Gee, there's something familiar about all this...


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## the Dabbler (Feb 17, 2005)

And NO karl, we will not cover the book on the expense account !!


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## Rebel Rocker (Jan 26, 2000)

And also, Karl, WELCOME TO THE BOARD!! Ahhhhh, fresh meat!!!!


Wayne


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## Seaview (Feb 18, 2004)

Or as Janos Skorzeny would've said, "Ahhh, fresh blood".


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## TAY666 (Jan 8, 2000)

http://tylisaari.com/models/misc/injection.htm


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## Karl_Kolchak (Aug 30, 2005)

*THANKS!! - Injection Molding*

Thank you all for the information!!!

I am on a mission to find the Monogram book and the links provided where
excellent. I also did some research yesterday and for those who 
want to get real in depth - here you go:

http://www.eng-tips.com/ --TIPS FROM THE PROS
http://www.idsa-mp.org/proc/plastic/injection/injection.htm --REAL GOOD INFO

http://www.4spe.org/ --SOCIETY OF PLASTICS ENGINEERS

Regards,

KK


P.S. I realize that this is not a Polar Lights subject and I appreciate you all not minding the "generic" post


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## TAY666 (Jan 8, 2000)

Well, if you want to stretch it, it is PL related as what they sold were injection molded.


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## Dave Metzner (Jan 1, 1970)

Here is a quick description of how we did it.......

Polar Lights kits were produced in the "old fashioned" way. by hand not by computer....
After a subject was chosen, a tooling model was hand made by a craftsman at the factory. The tooling model was usually 2:1 or twice the size of the finished model although some large models were made from 1:1 tooling models.
The tooling model was sent to us for approval - usually there would be one or two sets of revisions made to the tooling model , often requiring it to be sent back & forth a couple times. 
The licensor would also get to see the tooling model for approval at this stage.
Once the tooling models had been refined to make sure that the model would be accurate, and approved by the licensor, steel tooling was made. 

Our tooling was usually made by cutting the tools on pantograph machines with some details added by the EDM process.
Near the end we did a kit or two by CNC tooling.

Once a steel tool had been made test shots were sent to me for review. I built the test shots to check fit and accuracy we adjusted the steel tooling accordingly. Usually we would run three to four sets of test shots, adjusting tooling each time, before we got all the bugs out of a kit and could put it into production.

While we were de-bugging the tooling we were also writing instruction sheets and designing packaging so that everything could be ready once production was started.

Dave


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

ChrisW said:


> Didja ever hear about the Vampire that worked nights at Wal-Mart? He was the _Night Stocker_...


Didja hear about the police picking up the wrong fellow for a series of murders? He was the _Not Strangler_!

Sorry! I know that was awful but your joke deserved a sequel.


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## PRE-SCENES 2 (Aug 16, 2005)

Sounds like somebody is thinking about startin' his own company or doing a research report for school! Good Luck! I've read and seen alot of info on this subject because of my curiosity and came to this conclusion: "You need a lot of money!"


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## Karl_Kolchak (Aug 30, 2005)

*Thanks Dave!!*

Dave,

thanks for the info. I appreciate it coming from "the horses mouth" as they say.
This is a fasinating subject to me; the business of model production and its history. I hope others on this board are equally interested. 

What you describe is very much what I have read in other sources. One particular source that others may find interesting is a series of articles that was on Ertl's web site many years ago. To my good fortune I found these tonight amongst my other modeling publications. It tallks about the business as a whole from marketing to packaging. Anyone interested in these I can mail you out a copy.

Dave, excuse my ignorance, but what was your job function at Polar Lights? 

Best regards,

KK


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## the Dabbler (Feb 17, 2005)

PRE-SCENES 2 said:


> Sounds like somebody is thinking about startin' his own company or doing a research report for school! Good Luck! I've read and seen alot of info on this subject because of my curiosity and came to this conclusion: "You need a lot of money!"


Now there's an ( maybe cockeyed ? ) idea !! We have Dave, Chris, and Lisa, maybe others on here, all versed in the model business, could someone start up a company and sell shares, maybe to many of the members here and to the public ??
I'd personally be willing to buy in now that I've seen the dedication ( read fanaticism ) on this BB to modelling. With the promulgation of cheaper advertising like cable-channel- local advertising, Internet, etc. And if the products were of current or "popular" items, it could make a go of it.
OR am I just goofy ?? ( I mean on this subject, not in general !! )

Dabbler


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## A Taylor (Jan 1, 1970)

Dave was the Brand Manager for Polar Lights...
i.e., head chef, sous chef, line expediter and maitre de for Casa De Polar.
Above him? Only Lowe.. Below him? Everyone else.


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## Karl_Kolchak (Aug 30, 2005)

Thanks A. Taylor for the low down. I could tell from some of what I have been 
reading the Dave M. was a significant player at PL. I had no idea how significant.

Okay - so I have asked the question of how models are made and there has been some great info. posted on the subject (esp. from Dave)

Here is the next question. Which one of you (plural) knowledgeable folks from Polar Lights is going to write the book (I mean really)?

Revell-Monogram has one.
Timaya has one.
Aurora has two(?)
Arifix has one.

I would presonally love to see a book written by the insiders. There are many books on the kits and how to build, paint,...blah blah blah

How about one on the business of modeling, how the models are created, how they are distributed, history of the company (with personel interviews), product direction, description, they products that never where released(!!) etc etc.

I would buy this book. Anyone else?

KK


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## Karl_Kolchak (Aug 30, 2005)

sorry for the spelling. hit post too early


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## TAY666 (Jan 8, 2000)

Karl_Kolchak said:


> This is a fasinating subject to me; the business of model production and its history. I hope others on this board are equally interested.


Not really.
But that is problaby because I worked in a shop that did injection molding for 17 years. 
During that time, I did it all. Ran the presses. Mixed the material. Set the molds. Set up the machines. Assembled parts. Packaged finished goods (stuff ready for the store shelves). Ran molds back and forth to the tool shops.Shipped and received all the stuff. Dealt with outside vendors.

It's really not all that glamorous.


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## PRE-SCENES 2 (Aug 16, 2005)

it may not be all that glamorous to those that works on that stuff for a living, BUT let that fantasy work for the rest of us. I personally understand what your saying though. 

TAY666 you still seem facinated by modeling because of your website. It still gives us all that view it some childhood pleasures!

ROCK ON!

P-S2


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## CaptFrank (Jan 29, 2005)

> I worked in a shop that did injection molding for 17 years.
> During that time, I did it all. Ran the presses. Mixed the material. Set the molds. Set up the machines. Assembled parts. Packaged finished goods (stuff ready for the store shelves). Ran molds back and forth to the tool shops.Shipped and received all the stuff. Dealt with outside vendors.


Really? Neat!

Did you work on any kits I may have bought at my local hobby shop?

Could one of your kits be sitting in my room?


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## Syme (Jan 9, 2005)

"Or as Janos Skorzeny would've said, 'Ahhh, fresh blood.' "

Actually he wouldn't have said anything. Just hissed.

Cool thread!


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## Syme (Jan 9, 2005)

TAY666 said:


> Not really.
> But that is problaby because I worked in a shop that did injection molding for 17 years.
> During that time, I did it all. Ran the presses. Mixed the material. Set the molds. Set up the machines. Assembled parts. Packaged finished goods (stuff ready for the store shelves). Ran molds back and forth to the tool shops.Shipped and received all the stuff. Dealt with outside vendors.
> 
> It's really not all that glamorous.


I believe it.

Last night's rerun of the Simpsons - where Ned moves to the little town in PA that makes those little cutesy statues, and the plant and town is just as insanely sugar-sweet as the statues - that's kinda what most of us imagined it would have been like at Aurora back in '64. Not true, of course. Never was. Pure fantasy, and a child's fantasy at that. 

Working in a similar industry (robotic cell mfg/machine shop), I can relate very closely to Tay. If I tell kids I work with robots they're instantly all "Oh cool!" Well it ain't. But that's exactly how many of us here grew up envisioning Aurora. We saw nothing but the neat-o product and packaging and advertising, and so couldn't HELP but imagine how much FUN it would be to work there! In reality it would've been "just a job," no matter how relatively great a company "A" might have been to work for back in the day (whether it actually was or not I don't know, but I've worked in the industrial equivalent of feces mines).

STILL...and I'm willing to be corrected here...I like to think there' d be a boost - even a teeny-tiny one - working in the general drudgery of a plant that makes something you actually loved (models) instead of just the usual industrial widget. But I could be wrong.


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## TAY666 (Jan 8, 2000)

CaptFrank said:


> Really? Neat!
> 
> Did you work on any kits I may have bought at my local hobby shop?
> 
> Could one of your kits be sitting in my room?


No kits.
We made toys, and parts for toys for Little Tikes.
If any of you have kids that had big outside toys and playsets by them, we probably made a few pieces and put a bunch of stuff in a bag with the instruction sheets and/or decals for it.
We made hubcaps, steering wheels and other parts for most of the ride on toys.
And we made a bunch of their smaller toys, like the vaccuum, monster truck, garden tractor, garden tools, hand tools, etc.
Almost all their injection molding used to be done in this area. At one time there used to be like 10-12 shops around here that did stuff for them. Now there is only like 2. Most of the jobs went overseas because of Walmart price demands. When Walmart says "make this at this price, or we won't buy anything you make" companies tend to listen.


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## Karl_Kolchak (Aug 30, 2005)

Dave Metzner said:


> Here is a quick description of how we did it.......
> 
> Polar Lights kits were produced in the "old fashioned" way. by hand not by computer....
> After a subject was chosen, a tooling model was hand made by a craftsman at the factory. The tooling model was usually 2:1 or twice the size of the finished model although some large models were made from 1:1 tooling models.
> ...


 Dave,

in reply to your description above as to how it was done; What material did you 
use to make the original? Also you mentioned that you used a pantograoh machine to 
cut the tooling was this made of tools steel and did you ship these to china for 
production molds? I have read how it was done at Aurora and with the exception of
overseas production in China it sounds like PL operated similary.

Regards,

KK


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## the Dabbler (Feb 17, 2005)

OK, you've asked for it !
How about the late-shift OB/GYN ? The Night Storker ??
The third shift heating engineer ? Karl Koldshack :The Night Stoker ? :jest: 
Dabbler


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## Karl_Kolchak (Aug 30, 2005)

ignoring you......


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## PRE-SCENES 2 (Aug 16, 2005)

:tongue: _Chortle_!!!!! :tongue:


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## TAY666 (Jan 8, 2000)

Karl_Kolchak said:


> Dave,
> 
> in reply to your description above as to how it was done; What material did you
> use to make the original? Also you mentioned that you used a pantograoh machine to
> ...


I'm not Dave, but I can make some educated guesses.
The original was probably whatever the sculptor use to make the master. Either wax, or clay. In the case of the reverse engineered kits, probably the original model.
The molds were probably a combination of tool steel and brillium. Brillium being used for the hot spots of the mold (it cools a heck of a lot faster). It is a lot more expensive than steel though, so it would only be used in the places it would actually be needed.
They were probably cut right over in china. Cheaper to have made, and no shipping costs to send them over that way.


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## beck (Oct 22, 2003)

that would be Berylium . :thumbsup: 
hb


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## TAY666 (Jan 8, 2000)

beck said:


> that would be Berylium . :thumbsup:
> hb


Yeah.
Never could spell it right.
I know it when I see it though. Looks like a cross between copper and brass, and is heavy as lead, and about as strong. (pretty bad when plastic parts stuck in a mold actually dent the surface)


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## beck (Oct 22, 2003)

from what i understand , it's pretty toxic too . hence another reason for the alloying . 
anybody know of other metals and/or alloys used in the tools ?
hb


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## Dave Metzner (Jan 1, 1970)

Beryllium/Copper tooling is no longer used in this country.
I don't even think that it's being used in China very much - mostly because the alloy is pretty expensive as well as toxic.

All the tooling we had done in China for the last three years were steel tools.

There may have been a few B-C Polar Lights tools early on but I'm sure that 90% of our tooling was steel.

Dave


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## TAY666 (Jan 8, 2000)

Really?

Didn't know that.
We were still running molds with the stuff at our shop when it closed in the spring of 04.
Trying to remember. I think the last mold we got with it was made around 2000.
Then again we had parts with very large, deep cores that needed to cool fast. That, and Little Tikes usually had the molds built in South / Central America.


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## beck (Oct 22, 2003)

copper / berylium was what i was tryin' to think of . 
i had heard of older tools being found to have pitting and such .
steel is probably stronger and can probably be silicone coated for long term storage .
fascinating stuff .
i'd like to actually see the tooling for , say , Dracula or Frankenstein just to see how big they are and the layout etc. 
hb


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## Karl_Kolchak (Aug 30, 2005)

Hey Dave ...

did you guys over at PL ever see the tools or was that all done overseas???
Also, how did you cut up the original model? Did you recast and then chop 'em up
for the model??

KK


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## Dave Metzner (Jan 1, 1970)

Tools never left China, The only way to see them was to take the trip to the factories.

All the prototyping and tool making for Model kits was done in China.
Tooling models were made for approval, then used to make tooling - usually the tooling models were destroyed or badly damaged in the tool making process.

I got to make a trip to China in October before the sell out - got to see the tooling and stacks of old tooling models.
Trip was very interesting.

Dave


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## beck (Oct 22, 2003)

i'll bet it was Dave . that'd be so cool to get to see . 
did they let ya get any pics ?
hb


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## Karl_Kolchak (Aug 30, 2005)

Dave Metzner said:


> Tools never left China, The only way to see them was to take the trip to the factories.
> 
> All the prototyping and tool making for Model kits was done in China.
> Tooling models were made for approval, then used to make tooling - usually the tooling models were destroyed or badly damaged in the tool making process.
> ...


 Thanks for the info Dave.

What happened to the tooling? I would assume that the maker would charge a 
storage fee if they where not actively used? Would they have been brought over to the
states?

KK


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## Dave Metzner (Jan 1, 1970)

I have no Idea what's happened to the tooling. 
Last I knew it was all in one place.
Far as I know that factory still does lots of business with RC-2 I doubt that they charge any storage fees.
They never charged us to store tooling.

Dave


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## TAY666 (Jan 8, 2000)

Doubt there is any storage fee.
SOP in the industry is that if you mold something for someone with their tools, then you store them until you get the next order.
We had molds for Little Tikes that hadn't been used in over 10 years.
If you don't like it, then you are free to not do any business with the company.


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## Dave Metzner (Jan 1, 1970)

The guys we did business with in China had over a hundred Polar Lights tools and several hundred Johnny Lightning tools at the time of the buy-out and I don't think we ever paid a dime in storage fees.


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## Karl_Kolchak (Aug 30, 2005)

Dave Metzner said:


> The guys we did business with in China had over a hundred Polar Lights tools and several hundred Johnny Lightning tools at the time of the buy-out and I don't think we ever paid a dime in storage fees.


 Dave,

do you know the name of the tooling company? Did they also produce the boxes and 
instruction or just send you bagged PL models?

K


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## TAY666 (Jan 8, 2000)

I don't know about China, but over here, boxes are made by a box company, and instructions are done at a printing company.
I'm sure it works the same over there.
The boxes and intructions get shipped to the molding company. Sprues are boxed with the instructions and shrink wrapped (either at the press itself, or in another area of the shop), then they are packed into cases and palletized. 

It's cheaper and more efficient to have separate companies that specialize in the different areas.


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