# No name... yet... unidentified for now



## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

Thanx to Hill Top I may be outta my slump.

So far things are just held together with silly putty and spit so as usual please use your imagination and squint a little. Been wanting to murdify an AFX five window for some time. I already knew it was gonna have to be cut back to the cowl so I just butched it back just ahead of the hood seam.:thumbsup:

The top chop was a given so I roughed it out this afternoon. Later this evening I snipped up some brass and using one of my "front rail/hanger delete" chassis bucks I slopped it around to create a roller.:freak:

The frame rail locator holes are narrow on the buck. (used on a previous build) The frame rails will be the front hanger point for the pick-ups. Plenty of room to widen things out for proper shoe contact/spacing. I'll adjust it on the actual chassis when the time comes. I was more worried about vertical shoe travel and clearance on the plastic motor cuz the width eyeballed OK. The hanger windows will be modified to electrically isolate them.

Now that I know it's a viable build I'll start on the real chassis. The front axle will have to be narrowed a smidge to pull the trackwidth more in line with the rears. Also gonna have to roll that step in at the bottom of the cowl to smooth out the body line along the front. Once the chassis is built I'll worry about how to mount the body. More than likely a rear screw post and pinned at the front using the radius rod rear hanger... but at the time I couldnt be bothered with trivial things. 

Had a few different grill choices in the junk drawer but the standard grill seemed to look best. The Darda vicky grill was a close second, but it falls well short of the crisp detail of the oldschool AFX grill 

Radius rods yet to be fabbed, I sized them up and they should just squeak by the headers with a little luck.


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## sethndaddy (Dec 4, 2004)

Absolutely one the finest cars I ever seen.


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## 1976Cordoba (Sep 20, 2000)

That looks just wicked! :thumbsup: 
Hope Gunn sees this -- he'll love it.


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## tjd241 (Jan 25, 2004)

*Dats what I'm talking about.....*

VERY edgey... very realistic.... very nice Bill. You're just so... *very *!!!!..... how about calling it N.N.R. (for no name rod)

nuther:dude:


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## 41-willys (Jan 7, 2000)

That is TOO COOL:thumbsup:


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

That's scary good. It even looks like a Black Widow spider with the rail front end reaching out like that...


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## jack0fall (Sep 8, 2004)

The "Villain" look is absolute with this one Bill. :thumbsup: But the only way for me to give it a name is for my fat fingers to set it on "my" track and run it till it drops.... :wave:   HINT HINT HINT...

Jeff


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## tomhocars (Oct 19, 2005)

Bill ,I can't wait to see this car finished..Tom


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## micyou03 (Apr 8, 2003)

Awsome car!!!!


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## SplitPoster (May 16, 2006)

:thumbsup:!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## fastlap (Nov 11, 2007)

I am, for a change,..........absolutely speechless. That rocks!!!


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## Hilltop Raceway (Feb 12, 2006)

Looks like somebody found their way to Big Lots, nice engine choice BH. I wonder what color ( just thinking to myself ) would look the best on that Bad Boy??? I likes the tubing, will have to try that, plus the top chop. Ya killin me, ya killin me...The Master at it again!!! Nice ride... RM


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## roadrner (Jul 21, 1999)

Bill,
As they say up north, WICKED.


:thumbsup::thumbsup: Dave


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## win43 (Aug 28, 2006)

Bill,
What can I say  that is one awesome looking ride. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: The Model Murderer strikes again. As for a name ???? How about "Jerry's" :woohoo::lol::lol::jest:


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## RacerDave (Mar 28, 2006)

WOW, Bill. You have just officially outdone yourself. That looks fantastic. Dave.


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## Dragula (Jun 27, 2003)

Sweet!
DRAGjet


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## WesJY (Mar 4, 2004)

HOLY (BLEEEP), (BLEEEP), [email protected]#$%^&*() ... that's ONE BAD A$$ (bleep) (bleep) Car!!!!!

I am ok..  LOL..

Wes


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## JordanZ870 (Nov 25, 2004)

Shvargennn! (that's swedish for Shwing!)

Mmmmmmm..nasty black streetrods.....:thumbsup:


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## bobhch (Apr 22, 2007)

Mr. Model Murderer,

Woooooooah baby!............Vroooooooooooooom, vroooooooooooom....Screeeeeatch! 

That looks way cool mean! Lock the back door and run for your lives...

Bob...zilla


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

*"Black Max"*

Wow! So many kind words and positive energy. Thank you all!

For those of you who follow my brass contraptions this one has something different. All previous versions have used tube or rod for the front axle. Ideally I'd like to do the front axle from a correct "I" beam shape. Hobby store doesnt carry it and spindle attachments would be problematic short of a teeny tiny HO king pin arrangement that is currently on hold in the R&D dumper.

This time square tube was used. A little heavy looking from the top viewpoint but the advantages became quickly apparent. The stock AFX axle can now be used, shortened to make the spindle; however no wheel mods are required except a quick slice to dehub. The square ID is drilled and the stub axles jam right in!

The super bonus was being able to drill through the drop portion of the axle and slide it onto the frame rails. Previous tube style front axles were carefully notched by tedious handfiling. In addition it required alot of fiddling to get things jigged square and clamped into position prior to soldering. Any changes to a parts position had to be de-soldered.

The current method allows the completed axle assem with wheels and tires to be positioned and left hands/clamps free. During mock up the wheel base experiments were a snap. From a pert near stock position, mildly altered and full on rail with all points in between available... ya just slide it where ya want it! :woohoo: Makes me wonder what to so long Homer? D' Oh! :freak:

No longer unidentified. I chose the name for the simple reason that it is BLACK and is currently using the MAX-imum amount of my patience.

Next up I'll boil up a chasiss and get cuttin'.

Thanx for riding along! :wave:


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## bobhch (Apr 22, 2007)

Aaaaaaaaaaaaah Black Max is coming, Black Max is coming....aaaaaaaaah!!!:woohoo:

Run, run, run as fast as you can....aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah before we are all goners and we are walking on our kneecaps with 10-W40 smeared all over our backs with our faces in the dirt.....aaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!!!

C'mon everyone.....run.....what yah waiting for? RUN!!!!!!!

Bob...zilla


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## gear buster (Dec 1, 2005)

*toying again*

Bill, 
you are toying with me again..:woohoo:

I can't resist those chop tops on the old coupes.
That looks super sweet.:thumbsup: 
Are those brass spears out the front to pick up the road kill??
Can't wait to see this one done..


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## videojimmy (Jan 12, 2006)

Sweet!

Hey Bill, I have a great name for that car... how about "Jim's car" ? 

hehehehehehe


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

*Baby steps*

Mock up is always fun. Then comes reality.

Finally decided on T-jet power for the Black Max. First things first a donor screw post was grafted into the rear. The screw was trimmed for length so some dummy doesnt run it up through the trunk lid! :freak:

I doofed the picture order so pic 3 shows the first running set up. The new drilled front axle worked great in that it could be taped and easily adjusted for ballance and final chassis rake during the basic tuning stage. Originally I was going to use the frame rails as front pick up shoe hangers but with the down swooped Muscle Machine headers the math (width) didnt work out. Just as well, the electrical isolation was another hurdle to overcome so I dodged the whole ball of wax and went with my standard drop pick up assem thats tried and true....plus it fit...barely.

Pic 4 is the mess I had after running some test laps. You can kinda see how the glass was marked off fer cut. The chopped top dropped the glass well into the chassis and had to be relieved north to south. 

In Pic 2 we're at the frame shop. The commbination frame connector/front chassis mount is fabbed and soldered in first using a turd chassis for a jig so I dont melt the good one! I'm liking this bracket trick as it really stiffens the front end and squares things up when fully assembled. The frame rails are a tight slip fit through holes in the forward bulkhead and abutt the forward magnet to locate them for depth into the chassis. Once the frame connector is installed it is heat sinked with gators and the front axle is slid into place. The wheel base is checked side for side on a mark transcribed from the tape mark during earlier testing... 41.5 mm fer what it's worth. Then the front axle is soldered on the sweet spot!

More to come!


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

*Motor mods*

No doubt the MM motor is really nice but it doesnt lend itself to solid mounting like many of the other off the rack cheapo chrome blobs.

I chose a post saver insert....cuz I had one... LOL. Studied the problem for some time and began by marking the chassis mounting hole on the bottom of the MM motor. After dis-assembling the MM motor into it's mini modules I discovered that what I'd guess youd call the intake manifold and waterpump housing has just enough space to sneak the insert in.

The remaining parts are carefully relieved with a small roundfile as shown in Pic 2. 

Pics 3 and 4 give an idea of how it looks assembled and on the chassis with the screw wound in gently.

In pic 5 we see it with the blower and bug catcher slipped into place. It does require a small spacer between the frame connector and dummy motor to keep the pickups from spanking the headers. Eventually I'll bond all the MM motor modules into one unit with the post saver. The spacer will be replaced with a more conventional looking dummy oil pan/spacer bonded to the motor base. A little higher than originally mocked up but I can stomach it...compromises have to be made!


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

*From roller to runner*

A few other changes were made along the way. The rear track width was brought it in so the Max could pass another car...unlike some new cars we know...snicker.

The front track was narrowed to match.

Originally had a green green arm with super ll mags. This proved to be more or less useless on my short track. Swapped the arm to a Magna traction for a little better low end and broader torque curve. While much better I finally downgraded the super ll's to standard AFX. Even with the extended brass chassis she had just a bit much snap and I was right at the edge of having to mess with wheelie bars to keep her in the groove...which was not part of the street rod plan... a minor detune but she's a lot more cooperative on the track. Still has plenty of giddy up and responds well to throttle input.

The list of to do's now looks like finishing up the dummy motor and getting started on the forward bodywork. The cowl will require a smidge of material...the first cut was WRONG hahahahaha! The lower cowl has to get pulled into line as well, to get a nice waspy pinch and to accomodate radius rods as yet unmade. A forward frame connector is on the books when I decide how to finish the forward rail area and then the grill mounting will be worked out. 

As always guys, thanx for riding along:wave:


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## WesJY (Mar 4, 2004)

wow!!! now i am gonna take my red rat rod and re do it !!

Wes


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## bobhch (Apr 22, 2007)

*what a build man...WOW!*

That looks fun Bill....real, real, real fun! :woohoo:

Bob...zilla


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## JordanZ870 (Nov 25, 2004)

Looks great, Bill! So far, so good! (Don'cha think it needs a big'ol meatball on that blackboard of a door?...and maybe a roof stripe?!  )


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## gear buster (Dec 1, 2005)

*Lookin lean and mean*

Looks lean and mean there Bill.:thumbsup:
Talk about heatin up the track... Those zoomies should do the trick..


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## win43 (Aug 28, 2006)

WOW!!! Great looking ride Bill. That would look great sitting next to my 8-ball auction car.


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## Hilltop Raceway (Feb 12, 2006)

Bill, That is one Bad A!!! What else can I say?????? Ya killin me, stop it, quit, call in sick!!! The boys back at the shop seem to get pis...d, everytime I show em one of these great builds, or one these custom paint jobs all the guys are doing. So now the boys want more money, just to try building one or painting a custom, I just can't win!!! Thanks guys, Thanks alot!!! ... RM
P.S. Keep em coming!!!


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## jack0fall (Sep 8, 2004)

Bill, you have taken the villian and given it a much more wicked look. :thumbsup:  

Oops, I meant to say the BLACK MAX... Now all you need to find is a HO scale Ghost Rider for the driver.... 

Jeff


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## bobhch (Apr 22, 2007)

*Black Max would be a great Ghost Rider Mobile!!!*



jack0fall said:


> Bill, you have taken the villain and given it a much more wicked look. :thumbsup:
> 
> Oops, I meant to say the BLACK MAX... Now all you need to find is a HO scale Ghost Rider for the driver....
> 
> Jeff


Jeff,

Weird man...you got ESP or something? This just came in the mail today! Ghost Rider Rulz big time man...Bill you are not getting this...sorry man but, this is the only one I have. Plus you already got some little skull guys from me recently.










Ghost Rider has now defeated Satan and escaped from Hell...now he is off to reek some havoc in Heaven. :devil: If you don't know what I am saying here...you are just a Ghost Rider wanna bee...Bzzzzzzzz

Bob...zilla


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

*Devil is always in the details*

While it may not look like much, it took a long time to do nuthin'!

The four gear A has a bit much taper ahead of the cowl to accept the t-jet chassis which is why I cut it well back for proper fitment. The added section has to run parrallel to the gear plate and a touch beyond. This was done to allow the placement of a firewall that hides the frontal area of the gear plate and cleans up the overall look. The cowl sections came from another one of Bobzillas sacrificial shadows. (The gift that keeps on giving...so long as I'm working with black.)

The firewall was scribed out to match the internal dimensions of the cowl and hand carefully filed for a gapless fit. The Plastruct diamond plate stock was a goody that CJ tossed me some time back and just seemed right. The black doohickey is the updated spacer for the Muscle Machine motor. It will be bonded to the dummy motor as an oil pan. Beveled to simulate a pan but not apparent in this pic. 

Also, finally got rid of that goofus looking step at the bottom of the cowl/ rocker that all four gear bods have. Makes a huge difference when the car is fully assembled.

Now that the cowl area is tightend up I can finish fabricating the radius rods and mount the rad/grill.


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## bobhch (Apr 22, 2007)

*I am watching....*

Bill,

Just keep checking back on this thread as, it is nice to see you enjoy a build of your own now. Sweet Black Max of Shadow goop....holy black -n- scary fine detailed build build of a rat rod Batman....Biff....Pow.....Bam......woooooah baby! :woohoo:

Bob...zilla


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## tjd241 (Jan 25, 2004)

*Sweet Bill....*

Diggin the diamonds. :thumbsup: nd


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## Slott V (Feb 3, 2005)

*Monster Garage returns*

Had some fun in Photoshop: This bad-ass ride reminded me of Jesse James for some reason so...


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## Hilltop Raceway (Feb 12, 2006)

Now that's cool Slott V!!! I need Jesse in my shop!!!...RM


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## bobhch (Apr 22, 2007)

Slott V said:


> Had some fun in Photoshop: This bad-ass ride reminded me of Jesse James for some reason so...


Slott V,

RALMAO....Nice Photo shop work man...real nice and love it! 

Bob...zilla


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## jack0fall (Sep 8, 2004)

I just saw that episode a few days ago, was surprised to learn that the name of Jesse's hotrod came from the puppy (last of a litter) that he rescued from a junkyard. The puppy had a bum leg, and the credits at the end of the show said that he died while having the leg operated on. Sweet Pea will always have a different meaning for me from now on. 

Jeff


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## 1976Cordoba (Sep 20, 2000)

Slott V said:


>


Now that's some funny shizzle right there -- looks almost real! :lol:


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

I fired that Jesse for sitting down on the job! He threatened to run me over with a V-8 lawn mower and shoot my eye out with a newspaper shooter.

Pic-1: Fabbed up the hairpins and soldered them into the axle. I let it cook a while to flow as much solder as possibe into the hollow axle. She needed a little more frontal weight so being a petty oppurtunist I let her flow into unused tube where it's hidden. Heat sinks were used to keep the axle and frame rail joints from destabilizing. After the joint has cooled I sneak up on it with the heat again and wiggle the hairpin laterally. The first heat sets the Hairpin square to the axle and the gentle reheat allows me to loosen the solders grip but still maintain a fixed vertical position. The Hairpins must swing away from the body for service in this particular build. They are not long enough to provide enough flex to seperate the body.

Pic-2: The rad/grill is mounted by drilling a small hole through the axle beam center. A tiny brass peg is secured in the back of the rad just below the top line of the bottom rad tank where material is thicker. The peg is then crushed on two sides with the noodle knees pliers to creat the square peg in a round hole effect which binds it in place. Final mounting will be like be assisted with a tiny dab of silicone cement for a little cushion. The rad is pretty exposed in a barrel roll and hopefully it will just pop off in the event of a catastrophe.

Pic-3: While I kinda like the shishkabob ends on the front rails common sense told me I'd better deal with it before some nut behind the streering wheel bent them irrepairably. I went with the tried and true look. A front tube/ bumper insert was considered and quickly scrapped...spoiled the simple look. The hairpins fit right in the Zoomie's natural lower curve allowing me to go under the hairpin rather than over as in previous builds. I was really pleased with this effect cuz it doesnt look like the pipes were an after thought. Still a little tight where the motor meets the firewall...a few file strokes should get things squared up so the dummy engine wont be canted to the drivers side as it appears now.

Pic4: Just another angle on the front frame treatment. I put a little down angle just ahead of the rad. Then rolled the ends together into the middle and sweated a butt joint. Strangely this fit perfect and no trimming or fussing was required. A regular Twilite Zone moment.:freak:

Pic-5: The bottom view. Clearly a few thou gotta come off the drivers side index pin to square the hairpin to the frame rail. After a couple hundred test laps the test pick-ups ride a little heavy on hot shoe. Now that the final Z-bends are tuned in I'll eventually build a new set for Max and toss the testers back in the build box.

Gonna drive her a while as is and think about what's gonna happen in the body shop. Side angle pix reveal a pretty big piece of pie ahead of the rear wheels that needs filling. I'll also doodle around with some accent colors and see what I can do to not screw this one up. Prior to painting the frame module will get smoothed by hand filing, picking, sanding with 600, and polished up with the wire wheel.

Runs great and is very strudy...nowhere near as delicate as it looks...she's been thoroughly crash tested!


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## JordanZ870 (Nov 25, 2004)

Simply gorgeous, Bill! *drool*


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## tjd241 (Jan 25, 2004)

*That's a doozie Bill.....*

I say leave the pie.... looks just fine as is. :thumbsup: nd


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## WesJY (Mar 4, 2004)

bill - sweet ride man!! i am gonna try that with my red rod car! 

Wes


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## jack0fall (Sep 8, 2004)

*WOW!!!*Speachless here. Maybe just another word.

Garshdarnwicked.

 :thumbsup: 

Jeff


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## bobhch (Apr 22, 2007)

jack0fall said:


> *WOW!!!*Speachless here. Maybe just another word.
> 
> Garshdarnwicked.
> 
> ...


Word....what jackofall said :thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## JordanZ870 (Nov 25, 2004)

Has anyone else noticed...or is it just me....That Bill Hall manages to get his custom rods cooler than should be legal, longer than should be probable and lower than should be possible?! I find that it is VERY hard to describe his cars with only one word. The chosen word usually falls far short because the car is so much more than its collection of parts. Functional art comes to mind.

Bill, you are truely gifted. Not just in skill, but in vision and execution.
We are blessed to have you for inspiration.

Simply put, I am in awe.


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## Hilltop Raceway (Feb 12, 2006)

Very nice thoughts Joez, I guess you had a little time to think, while you're waiting for those dang router bits to come in!!! I too am a amazed at Bill's work, very creative stuff!!! ... RM


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

*I'm not worthy!*

You guys are gonna make me all misty and more bubble headed than usual with all that flattery. Really I just keep throwing tools and tricks at a pile until it becomes a car ...or becomes "better luck next time". 

Truthfully the accolades go to all who rode along and encouraged me. With out the board I couldnt do these things. Each successive build is an evolution of some previous build or idea; be it mine, or pilfered in some form from one of our many talented members. 

The final outcome is just another motorized illusion.


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## win43 (Aug 28, 2006)

" ? ? ? ? ? " What can I say about this car?

GREAT WORK Bill. :woohoo: :thumbsup: :woohoo:


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## gear buster (Dec 1, 2005)

*hammers..*

Bill,

That is one unreal build..:thumbsup::thumbsup:
Great lookin ride. all I can say is sweet..very sweet..

Now onto the hammer throwin.. I have tried that with a pile to make a custom. Throwed the hammer and nothin...HHmmm..
Maybe bigger is better.. 3 lber.. still nuthin..
I thought a little and grabbed the frame sledge.. gave it a toss.. 
Did you ever lose a car or even a pile while practicin this technique or am I doing it wrong.:freak: LOL

Keep buildin. I still thinkin on the next project...:woohoo:


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## Movie Car Mania (Mar 4, 2005)

WOW! Tremendous job!

RW
MovieCarMania.com


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

*I'm always grave robbin' for Zombies*

'Tanks Win, Buster, and MCM. I'm just trying to keep up with the Jonesez.

Two er three pounds is about right Steve, but ya have divide it by 64 or 87 depending on the actual scale of the car. Once I fingered that out the builds go a lot smoother!

Do I have casualties? Yesiree! ...But I gots a secret...I start with casualties and dont worry about butchering the already dead. :thumbsup:

I try to recycle everything that comes my way. A chassis with a shoe bad hanger or torn out front mount hole makes people go, "awwwww Bubkus!!"...I see tube frame hot rods and dragsters and say, "goody goody, oh by-o-boy!"

I have a big freezer bag full of chassis Zombies. You know the ones!...those gruesomely Harry High Schooled chassis that always sneak in with an e-bay junk wad. I save them for the bitter end when the t-jet originals go the way of the dodo. The good tubs are marked for electrical change overs and the "extra crispies" are used as a build buck for R&D. I slice and dice'em to fit the need of the moment. Some find permanent employment in the mock up portion of my regularly scheduled programming. 

If I need a drop axle, side shaved, bob tailed, chassis with a partial or full front pan delete... they're already in the buck box....as are the matching tail beveled and rail shaved gear plates.... :thumbsup:

This allows me to make all my cutting board mistakes and "D'Oh's!" with few worries. The bucks gave their up their lives many years ago...but not their souls!


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## videojimmy (Jan 12, 2006)

Bill, that is one of the sweetest slot cars I've ever seen!


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