# Track Border Idea



## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

An idea occurred to me the other day. I doubt it's an original idea, but I don't remember ever seeing a thread or post about making borders this way...

Say you took a 20"x20" piece of material (be it wood, rubber, plastic) that was the exact thickness of the track. If you were to then cut concentric circles 1 1/2" inches wide from the 1 1/2" mark out to the 19 1/2" size, would the resulting circles then be the inside and outside borders (at 1 1/2" each) for everything from a 6" to 18" curve? With no wasted material?

The circles could then be cut down to match your particular curve configuration. For example, if you had a 180 degree turn, you'd cut a circle in half.

The sizes would be:

Inside 6": 1.5" - 3"
Outside 3": 3" - 4.5"
Inside 9": 4.5" - 6"
Outside 6": 6" - 7.5"
Inside 12": 7.5" - 9"
Outside 9": 9" -10.5"
Inside 15": 10.5" - 12"
Outside 12": 12" - 13.5"
Inside 18": 13.5" - 15"
Outside 15": 15" - 16.5"
Inside 21": 16.5" - 18" (okay, this one has no purpose --- yet!!!)
Outside 18": 18" - 19.5"


Thanks...Joe


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## 1976Cordoba (Sep 20, 2000)

I'm no good at that sort of math but I did make turn borders from 1/4" plywood for an oval once. :freak:


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## Rolls (Jan 1, 2010)

Danged if that doesn't work out just right, Joe! Very slick. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


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## Dslot (Sep 2, 2007)

Joe asks:


> ... for everything from a 6" to 18" curve? With no wasted material?


Joe, you're one of my favorite forum guys. :wave: Sometimes I think you and I are twins separated at birth.

As a fellow cheapskate, I fully understand the allure of theoretical efficiency of materials. 100% use, nothing to throw away - it's such a glittering goal that I can make a hobby out of planning ways to do it too, even if I have no immediate use for the thing produced. (Ask Carol, when she grabs my collar as I try to "rescue" odd pieces of packaging and broken household products from the trashcan).

Alas, the circle-cut method only produces borders with no wasted material, _if_ the layout has _equal numbers_ of each radius curve (and no nested curves). Sigh. But hey, you or I could design a layout with equal numbers of all the radii. It couldn't be _that_ hard...

I'm chuckling, bubba, but I'm chuckling in the mirror.

As Yogi Berra allegedly said (and as, I'd guess, you and I are both painfully aware), "In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they ain't." But working out the theory is so-o-o-o much fun.

:thumbsup:Cheers,
-- D


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

Hey D,
Very few people ever admit to knowing me, let alone letting it slip they may be a long lost brother.

It's very true that unless you have the same number of all curves, you are going to have wasted material. I guess my intention of thowing out this idea for comment was whether anyone sees a reason why it would not work.

I was thinking along the lines of producing large numbers of borders. Borders are the one track item it seems is really lacking, so I was looking at this not just for myself, but as a possible way to have a small marketable product once the tooling was set up. 

The one consideration I can see is where you'd have to be careful in making the cuts since the cut itself will remove some material. But I think this can be easily accounted for by having the material always removed from the side of the border not attached to the track.

For example, the outside border on a 9" curve must be 9" on the inside, but could be slightly less then 10.5" on the outside.

And hey, I save all those little plastic trays from TV dinners. Drives everyone nuts.

Joe


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## BRS Hobbies (Feb 16, 2006)

Joe,

Borders are a much needed item in HO scale. Please keep us updated on the project and possible release date.

Best regards,
Brian


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## bemoore (Dec 23, 2008)

Grandcheapskate said:


> The one consideration I can see is where you'd have to be careful in making the cuts since the cut itself will remove some material. But I think this can be easily accounted for by having the material always removed from the side of the border not attached to the track.
> 
> For example, the outside border on a 9" curve must be 9" on the inside, but could be slightly less then 10.5" on the outside.


Won't work. Take for example the cut at 9" radius. Each side of the cut mates up to a curve piece. And neither side of the cut at 10.5" radius mates to a curve piece.

You could probably still do it if you use the thinnest jigsaw blade you can find.


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

bemoore said:


> Won't work. Take for example the cut at 9" radius. Each side of the cut mates up to a curve piece. And neither side of the cut at 10.5" radius mates to a curve piece.
> 
> You could probably still do it if you use the thinnest jigsaw blade you can find.


 No, I think it does work because the cut at 10.5" doesn't need to be precise since it doesn't mate up with anything. 

Let's take the example of the outside border of the 9" curve as mentioned above. And let's remember that the ouside edge of a 9" radius curve is 9" and the inside radius of a 15" curve is 12". And all track pieces are 3" wide.

The cut at 10.5" seperates (creates) two borders. One going from 9"-10.5" and the other from 10.5" to 12". The cut at 10.5" does not mate up to any curve. On the 9"-10.5", only the 9" side mates to the ouside of the 9" curve. On the 10.5"-12", only the 12" side mates up to the inside of a 15" curve.

If you lost a little material at the 10.5" cut, who cares? The only effect will be that the two borders you just created are a little less than 1.5" wide.

Basically, to create the outside border of a 9" curve and the inside of a 15", we are taking a 12" curve and cutting it right down the middle. Losing a little material on that middle cut is inconsequential.

Now the cut at 9" (and in fact at every 3" interval) needs to be precise as both sides of the 9" cut will mate to a curve; 7.5"-9" for inside 12" and 9"-10.5" for outside the 9" curve.

However, anyone who has worked with plastic track knows that the track isn't exactly made to tight specs. In fact, during my size testing of the Tyco 6" and 15" curve, I discovered that Tyco and Mattel 9" and 12" curves are slightly different in size. So, even if you were to do this, you can only get close - you'll never be perfect.

I figure any small gaps can be filled with modeling clay or something similar. But my thought process was to make this from rubber stock and have it cut with a very sharp knife-like device. I have no idea how this would be done, but if a 20x20 piece of rubber could be ""stamped" with some type of cutting tool to make all the circle at once, the amount of material loss for the cuts should be minimal.

Joe


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

I got a chance to try this with a piece of 1/8" rubber. I placed two 15" curves together and traced around the outside edge with a razor blade, cutting all the way through the rubber. Then, I marked a line (freehand) 1 1/2" outside that line and cut that. This could be done freehand because the cut on the outside of the border doesn't need to be precise.

That left me with a border for the outside of two 15" curves and 1.5" wide. I placed it outside a 90 degree 15" curve, using popsicle sticks under the rubber to bring it to track height. It fit like a glove.

Cutting the rubber wasn't easy, but the process would work. Using a razor blade basically removes no material. With a larger piece of rubber and a faster way to cut, this would make excellent borders.

Joe


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## tjd241 (Jan 25, 2004)

*Thanks for the idea Joe.*

Something that might help if you have a lot of borders to produce is set of wood template patterns in various radii to set on top of the material you are about to mark and cut. You could produce 1 set with real accurate tolerances... maybe in plywood. Would serve 2 purposes.... 1- to measure with, and 2- to use as a straight edge. Also useful cutting various are a pair of heavy duty scissors. Pretty low-tech but I have a pair of Fiskars that I got from Home Depot that will cut through just about anything. Carpet, tin, heavy cork, small branches outside... you name it. Just don't run with them.


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

tjd241 said:


> Something that might help if you have a lot of borders to produce is set of wood template patterns in various radii to set on top of the material you are about to mark and cut. You could produce 1 set with real accurate tolerances... maybe in plywood. Would serve 2 purposes.... 1- to measure with, and 2- to use as a straight edge. Also useful cutting various are a pair of heavy duty scissors. Pretty low-tech but I have a pair of Fiskars that I got from Home Depot that will cut through just about anything. Carpet, tin, heavy cork, small branches outside... you name it. Just don't run with them.


If I wanted to do a lot of these, I may have the rubber cut by a friend of my sister who has a company which works with rubber. I know they can cut circles as I have seen samples.

But, if you wanted to do this yourself, I think the patterns could be set up fairly easiliy without the need to make templates. You would make complete circles using track for all the different radii - 6", 9", 12", 15" and (if using Tomy) 18". You would have to cut one complete circle out of wood which would go inside the 6" curve. Then...

1. You take this 3" radius wooden circle and attach it to the rubber.
2. Build your other circles (6", 9", 12", etc.) around it using the track.
3. Cut around the outside of the largest circle and remove the material.
4. Remove the largest circle (let's say it's the 15" curve).
5. Cut around the outside of the 12" circle, then remove it.
6. Do the same for the 9" and 6". And then around the 3" wood piece.
7. You now have four rubber circles 3" wide at each of the four radii. Cut each one right down the middle - no need to be really precise as this cut side will not mate up with any curve. These are your inside and outside borders. Cut to any length needed - 1/8 circle, 1/4, 1/2.
8. The remaining 3" circle of rubber is the inside border for 6" curves.
9. Take the material you removed from the outside of the 15" curve and trim it to 1.5" wide. This is your outside border for the 15" curve.

Of course, to make this work, your piece of rubber would need to be 3" larger than your largest radius curve. For an 18" curve, that would mean a piece at least 39" square (36" radius plus 1.5" around the outside).

If you can find something to easily cut through the rubber (or whatever material you use), this could take no time at all. I'm toying with the idea of trying to use the poster board found at the dollar store, although I don't know how well that would hold up. 

Joe


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## eastside johnny (May 13, 2008)

Circle cutters (adjustable) are used for cutting round gaskets for pipe flanges in industry, which would work perfectly for what you are describing here. Check them out.


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## travis1960 (Apr 25, 2004)

I think a drywall circle cutter would work really well to do this. You can get them that cut up to 16".










Link to 16" cutter.

:dude:


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