# New Auto World cars fixed pricing :(



## Pomfish (Oct 25, 2003)

According to Jeff at Motorcitytoyz all vendors must sell at MSRP of $14.99 and $179.40 per case.

This provides NO incentive to buy by the case for savings.
I will only buy from dealers who will sell individual cars if this is the way it's going to be.
I would buy cases in the past to get the select cars and sell the rest at or below cost to even it out, but no more.

This will hurt sales for the weekend warriors who get to the fringe areas that the Hobby Towns, etc can't cover.

Very dissapointing to me.
Please post your feelings,

Keith


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## buzzinhornet (Jan 20, 2000)

I can understand MSRP for individual cars but I think you should get a price break for buying by the case. JMHO 

GP


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## micyou03 (Apr 8, 2003)

When people start selling them for less than wholesale, even when by the case, people stop buying from retail resellers, then the resellers lose interest in the product and the product dies. You can try to control this by raising the wholesale price, but then there is not enough profit margin for the dealers. So, I think its important to inforce MSRP, but I also think there should be some discount for buying a case.

This talk really makes me worry that the rules will be followed in the beginning then after the diehards pay top dollar for their cars we will see them selling for cheap.


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## noddaz (Aug 6, 1999)

We will just have to wait & see won't we...
Some things have been learned haven't they...
Hoping for the best...
Scott


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## lenny (Feb 29, 2000)

Pomfish said:


> According to Jeff at Motorcitytoyz all vendors must sell at MSRP of $14.99 and $179.40 per case.


Fred (1Stop) has them on his site for $134.99/case delivered. Fred doesn't sell singles, at least not on his website...


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

> Please post your feelings


I think Round2 is just trying to sell their cars like all the other toy cars are sold, i.e., Tomy, Life-Like, and Mattel. The theory are that doing so will allow the company to fund new product development and go after some of the endless list of "wouldn't it be cool if Round2 made..." things we keep asking for, like new chassis, new licensed bodies, quality improvements, fewer repaints, track sets, etc. Take a gander at the endless wish lists that keep getting generated on this board alone. You're not going to fund these projects dumping slot cars out the back door for a buck each.

As far as not being near a brick & morter hobby shop. It doesn't matter, legitimate hobby shops were trying to sell the JL cars for close to MSRP but had a hard time of it because of the low cost of the same cars on E-Bay and online case sellers. If the prices online and at hobby shops are comparable it's a level playing field. Sales tax vs. shipping costs. Whats' wrong with that? The old way was punishing hobby shops.

That being said, will Round2 be able to pull it off in light of the blow out market that we all saw with the JL cars? I think they have a very tough challenge on their hands because of the current distorted expectations (compared to Tomy and other slot car sellers). I would have liked to see them establish a two tier product line, with the lower tier products being aimed at the budget conscious buyers and a premium line targeting the Tomy and Life-Like marketplace with premium quality products. Licenses aren't cheap, and licensed cars would be part of the premium line. Not having a product tiering strategy means they are trying to reposition their only product line higher up. But moving the same product that used to sell openly for $9-$10 per car up to $14.95 per car without measurable quality improvements is going to be a tough sell. If the quality is better the probability of success will be better too.

Holding the line on MSRP at the retail level, whether online or in retail stores, will only work if Round2 jacks up the wholesale costs on the cars. If not some sellers will break out from the pack and offer substantial discounts to clear out their inventory fast. Does that mean that when they go back to Tom for reorders they'll be shunned? The answer to that question will decide whether the new pricing strategy succeeds or fails. 

If the new pricing strategy fails, the retail store sales channel will quickly collapse. If the online sales channel is not equitable it too will collapse and the only sales channel will be direct from Round2. Preparations for that contingency may already be in place...


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## Pomfish (Oct 25, 2003)

Very good explanation AfxToo.

My only question is, Why couldn't the Retail Hobby Shops come off of list price and at least meet the Customer half-way to the online prices?

Sure, there would be less profit and yes, brick and mortor will always have more overhead.
But when you see list price or More as some shops (Hobby Town USA) were trying to be Greedy once again, you end up leaving the Retail shop and wondering why you wasted gas and time just to be insulted.

No-one wants to pay list. If I am forced to pay list I may as well buy it from the Manufacturer. At least then they are getting all the profit and can invest that back into the Company.

Do you want to pay Sticker price for a New 1:1 car? 
You'd feel like a sucker.

Anyway, We have a Local Hobby shop here near Lancaster that is currently selling the new Scalectric Nascars for LESS than the Web Crew, So it can be done.
Guess where I bought my new Dewalt Nascar? Yep, Local.
They abandoned list prices about a year ago and their business is thriving.

I would Gladly support any brick and mortor if they just work with the dynamics of pricing and adjust.
Thanks,

Keith


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

I suspect that the margins are very, very slim in retail hobby stores after all of the overhead is taken into account. That's probably why there are so few remaining and the ones that do remain are mostly franchises. Hobby stores cater to a lot of little niche markets that mega retailers like Wal-Mart can't be bothered with. Hobby stores need to have a small number of a lot of things. This makes it difficult for them to realize any economy of scale on their orders. If they overemphasize one thing they may be in trouble if the popularity of that item changes. We've lost a lot of very good slot car focused hobby stores over the years for that reason. Very tough business to be in and the fact that everything in a hobby store is a discretionary purchase does not help. 

Realistically, the days are numbered for most brick & morter hobby stores. But they do provide one thing that can never be replaced with online or direct sales: the ability to walk into the store and walk out with your new toy in your hand. Some people are willing to pay for that benefit.


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## The Toolman (Dec 4, 2005)

Also, when you buy online at el-cheapo prices and something is wrong or broke, see how long it takes you to get it repaired/replaced. I bet you will hafta pay the shipping back to them also.

When all of the local hobby shops close, you'll see most of the commercial race tracks gone also.

Ronnie


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## T-jetjim (Sep 12, 2005)

I try to support our local hobby shop. Yes, their prices are higher than on-line, but like AFXtoo said, you can walk out with the product in hand. I don't consider them greedy. These folks are putting in 10 hour days, 6 days a week. I can get landscaping supplies, adhesives, paint and even some cars. So paying $2-4 more for a car doesn't phase me one bit. 
Jim


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

I'm curious... when people talk about being upset about paying $15 for a Round2 TJet or XTraction:

1) Tomy, Lifelike, and Mattel all sell cars at retail in the $20-$25 range. Not to mention the MM, MEV, and RRR cars/bodies which can cost much more. Are the R2 cars perceived as being roughly 40% inferior to the Tomy cars and 100%-500% inferior to the botique cars? Why are the JLs so cheap? Or are the Tomy cars too expensive? But why no compliants about Tomy and LL pricing?

2) None of the other slot car makers sell cars in multi-packs greater than 2 at the "retail" level. Since a very large number of JL cars were sold direct through distributors the 12-car inner became a defacto retail unit of sale. You can buy Tomy and LL cars in similar 12-car packaging, which is intended for resellers and hobby stores. The savings are in the 10% range, not the 50%-60% range of the JL cars. Should Round2 get rid of 12-car packaging (inners would only have one car type) or treat the 12-car inners as a retail unit of sale and quit pretending there's anything in it for hobby shops and single car resellers? 

3) What about chase cars? If they are intended to get collectors out into the stores searching and buying then getting one through a distributor in a 12-pack is like rolling the dice to see if you get lucky. That's not getting anyone out chasing anything. If the 12-car multi-packs went away then how would chase cars be sold? Should chase cars just be sold outright as a premium offering at a premium price? 

4) Is Round2 expected to fill the role of bargain basement slot car supplier left vacant by JL/RC2? 

5) Were the JL cars seen as being lower quality because of their lower selling price? If they were made equal in quality to Tomy or LL what would be a fair price for the JL TJet and XTraction cars?

Interested in hearing some opinions.


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## Franko (Mar 16, 2005)

I don't mind paying $15-25 for a nice Tomy or LL car but I need an alternative (<$10) like JLs for beaters for the youngsters to learn on and tear up. Otherwise I find myself cringing when they are playing.


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## lenny (Feb 29, 2000)

Franko said:


> I don't mind paying $15-25 for a nice Tomy or LL car but I need an alternative (<$10) like JLs for beaters for the youngsters to learn on and tear up. Otherwise I find myself cringing when they are playing.


 This is interesting... I've often heard LL referred to as 'garbage', yet people have no problem paying in excess of $20 for a LL car yet balk when a JL is priced above $10...


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## Pomfish (Oct 25, 2003)

Not really apples to apples.

The LL cars are most times Nascar Liscensed, JL's are not. That costs Alot to do and is also desirable among alot of slot buyers.

Also, you don't hear someone say "I just bought a Case of the new LL cars"
They are bought as Twin-packs or separately.

$20 one time doesn't hurt like $170 for a case of JL's under the new proposed pricing.
The fact that JL made you buy by the case got people having to justify buying 12 cars to get maybe 6-7 decent cars and then being stuck with 5-6 cars that were dogs in terms of resale value/popularity.

So you ended up Having to sell them off cheap to "cost average" the good cars to a resonable amount.
This was still doable when pricing by the case was near $100. Anything above that with the shipping costs, ebay costs etc. it doesn't make sense to do it this way.

I guess the bottom line for me is, If they are going to charge list then sell them direct as singles or supply the Vendors/Shops with as many as they want in singles.
Having to buy a whole case for one model of Charger R/T is bull.

Hope this makes sense.
Thanks,

Keith


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

Great to hear some different viewpoints. These raise even more questions:

6) Did/do you feel forced to buy 12-car packs from JL/RC2/Round2? As far as I know the 12-car pack was a distribution packaging, not a retail packaging. The Hobbytown USA stores near me didn't offer up 12 car packages, only singles.

7) The Life-Like NASCARs have the licensing reflected in the price, which was higher than the $20-$25 I used as a rule of thumb. The non-NASCAR models generally sell around $22 and officially licensed NASCAR models around $28. I'm sure some retailers split the difference. Many of the JL cars were licensed from the auto manufacturers, which doesn't come cheap. Would having officially licensed NASCAR Round 2 cars justify a price increase to the MSRP or even somewhere higher? 

8) What if the 12-pack inners contained all of one car but it was left to the distributors to repackage and realign whatever "pack-size" they wanted to put together for retail? Wouldn't that open up an opportunity for those distributors to add more value to the transaction? If all distributors really do is buy master cases from the manufacturer and break them up into 6 inners for resale - what exactly are they adding to the transaction? Why buy from Distributor A versus Distributor B? If Distributor A removes all the "case fillers" and sells a bundle of only the highly desirable cars, isn't that worth something, especially if you get to pick the ones that matter most to you? Or is it simply who has the best price?

9) Do you think Round 2 is already painted into a corner because of the 12-car buying pattern on the previous JL/RC2 cars? Has that permanently devalued these cars? 

10) Does the "beater" designation on JL cars reflect the quality or the price of the product? 

11) Do you think the retail price of the Round 2 cars really has any bearing on the whether the company will still be making them or new versions in 3 or 5 years?

12) How long do you expect Round 2 will be around?

Interested in hearing some more thoughtful responses.


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## TK Solver (Mar 18, 2004)

Lots of issues and lots of opinions...

The Hobbytown in Rockford sells LL and Tomy cars for $17 or $18. I consider that to be a reasonable price.

The Tomy SG+ chassis is not very rugged (cracks too easily) so I wouldn't consider paying more than $20 for any new SG+ cars, especially if I expect kids to run them.

If you want to give your kids a cheap car to play with (crash), go with a LifeLike. They seem to be very durable and there are very few that I would consider calling "nice". Certainly not any of the Chevys or Intrepids. My second choice would be to use some of the Thunderjet pullback bodies on Tomy SRT chassis. The front axle pops out now and then but the SRT holds up well and the Thunderjet (X-Traction) bodies without blowers or bumpers take a beating quite well.

Most kids can't keep an X-Traction in the slot for more than a lap or two so they'll probably lose interest with those. That's also the reason that X-Tractions are basically for serious slot car fans and not for the mass market. Tuff Ones are also for serious slot car fans only due to the higher maintenance requirements and the fact that they deslot too easily on standard set tracks for a variety of reasons.

With all that in mind, I believe that X-Tractions and Tuff Ones (with improved quality and features) could and should demand the highest retail prices of the bunch. Aim them at the niche that wants to collect and race the most highly detailed bodies. I would gladly pay $20+ for a high quality, nicely detailed Tuff One with upgraded wheels and tires that ran great right out of the package. I think that Round 2 would be wise to position their cars as such. I also think that they could get a NASCAR license and sell nicely detailed cars (from both the past and present) for around $20 and be profitable doing it. No, I wouldn't let kids crash those.

I'd scrap the whole concept of White Thunders and use wheels as the collectible item. Produce different types of wheels in different quantities. The more cars you buy, the more flexibility you have in being able to get the best combinations together.

Sealing the packages is a great idea. I'm glad R2 is doing that. I don't like the thought of anyone being able to test a car or swap parts from a car before selling it to me. If you're going to increase the price, you better assure me that I'm getting top quality goods. Sealing the package helps.


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## lenny (Feb 29, 2000)

Keith,
My Speed Racer cars are licensed too, as are any Bowtie Brigade, Mopar Muscle and other manufacturers cars that Round2 produces. Without having the actual dollar amounts of the specific licenses infront of me it's impossible to do a legit comparison on how much licensing affects the price. But a LL NASCAR car retails for $28, nearly twice that of a JL/round2 Bowtie Brigade Impala... Is the extra $13 all licensing? I don't have the answer to that but I would doubt it. Mattel must've had the NASCAR license for awhile for their slots. What was the price of MAttels NASCAR cars?

As for MSRP, JL ALWAYS had a Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price. No one ever stuck to it, and it was never enforced. And that was the fault of JL management. When the JL slots came out and I complained to Tom that a distributor was selling retail for less than I could get them for wholesale, I was told in as many words 'it's a free country, they can charge what they want'. Looks like that might be coming back to haunt Round2...


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

> I believe that X-Tractions and Tuff Ones (with improved quality and features) could and should demand the highest retail prices of the bunch


Very interesting perspective. I can see that angle too, because these cars are old world technology and probably require more exacting manual assembly. I'd imagine that the Tomy cars and other newer inlines have more automated assembly.


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## Franko (Mar 16, 2005)

The LL nascar bodies are quite durable and attractive to youngsters (and me) but the chassis' seems brittle. The JL pancake chassis is slower and cheaper and maybe a little tougher so they are better suited to the youngsters as beaters. The nascar LLs have some current collectability, the JLs might be collectable in a billion years.


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## SCJ (Jul 15, 1999)

Franko said:


> The nascar LLs have some current collectability, the JLs might be collectable in a billion years.


What? LL cars have very little collectabiity unless your talking about foreign issue cars! JL cars are already collectable...just look at how many people are buying them and NOT playing with them. Heck, just check the prices of the "Hard to get/more popular" cars and what they are selling for on eBay or at a slot shows. We are getting a substantial amount of calls for R1 cars.....including the pink ones!

----------------------------------
www.SlotCarJohnnies.com


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## Jimmy49098 (Jan 5, 2006)

I think the fixed pricing will mean the less desirable cars will be sitting there for a while at MSRP or whatever and the most wanted cars will go for more$$$. As far as collectable stuff, people collect about anything, but as far as collecting for future sale or investment, some JL's go for high prices, but just like with my baseball card collection from the 60's and 70's and old slots, they are valuable now because nobody ever thought they would be worth anything and were treated that way, so when people get nostalgic they end up buying stuff for 10X the price they paid for it when they were younger, nobody puts cards in the spokes of thier bikes anymore and I have never cut a wheel well. oh well, whatever just as long as they are there I will buy them, more money just means less cars for me, Jimmy


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## noddaz (Aug 6, 1999)

SCJ said:


> including the pink ones!


 Who would have thought it...


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## zanza (Sep 23, 2005)

noddaz said:


> Who would have thought it...



I like mine..... an early Release 1 pullback in Full Pink


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## boss9 (Apr 19, 2002)

noddaz said:


> Who would have thought it...


I think alot of people would have…


All of the least desirable coloured Speed-line push cars made by Aurora are now the most sought after.


It was bound to happen….




Cheers..


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## boss9 (Apr 19, 2002)

As for pricing:
I think it’s a manufacturers issue, not the buyers’

When TRU was selling slots, I was paying $9.99 for HP-7’s and 12.99 for 440’s. LL’s were $9.99, also. 
At the same time the (only) two hobby shops were pricing their Tomy’s and 440,s at $18.99 and their LL’s at 16.99 and were not moving them. They became dead-stock unless they had some sort of sale. 

Once TRU adjusted their pricing to $12.99 for the HP’s and $15.99 for the 440’s, I became a little picky, and only bought what I really liked. That was my personal price cap. LL stayed about the same.

I was able to purchase some “seconds” (no packaging) directly from Tyco at better than a 70% discount. 

I have never bought a defective Tyco, Tomy or Aurora car.
I've experienced a few LL’s with the rear axle loose from the holder. Besides that, all these were ready to run out of the box—with no problems. You can’t say that with the JL releases.

Scale Auto used to have great sales, and that’s when I’d stock up on extras or pick up stuff I didn’t have. This also got me spending a bit more because of their variety. A good way to draw more business.

With the release of the Round1 bodies by JL, I first saw them at TRU and bought every one (about 8) for $3.99 a pop, thinking they would be hard to find. I contacted JL direct and they sold me cases. I was satisfied at that point. 
Once the following series’ started coming, I became a bit pickier because of the difference only being colour and tampo’s. Soon they started piling up on the Bay. I called JL direct and they sold me masters at a steep discount.

When JL released the complete slot cars, they were nowhere to be found except the Bay and on-line dealers—never in the (local) hobby shops or toy stores. Again I bought a bunch (8 inners) for spares. The bods’ were the same. 

Subsequently, every release after, were pretty much the same bodies with a new release or two thrown in to keep interest up. I bought an inner of most series because of this. 
From day one of their release, the pricing (for me) was less then $8.00 a car--sometimes a lot less. The chase cars were an extra perk and never really an issue for me in the purchase.

With Tyco failing to release anything interesting (except the Nascars) and LL and Tomy hitting $20.00+, it was a no-brainer for me.

Tomy’s prices increased when Scale Auto got involved as a distributor. LL’s happened because of them upgrading their product and being a secondary industry in slots, relying mostly on their railroad sets and accessory sales. 
All three were also victims to the increase of royalty pricing. Not so much JL, except for the automotive brand usage.

By the time JL released their last couple of rounds of T-jets, I had enough spares and didn’t need they same body styles again. I only bought what I wanted. The same goes for the Xt’s—I only bought some preferred styles. I did stock up when they blew them out at the end of their involvement with slots. 
These were the only times I’d ever been able to get a discounted full case of slots from a manufacturer (JL), and did so because of price.

The manufacturer showed their hand with the low pricing. Mass production means lower cost. It was a boon for buyers to be able to get a large amount of cars at a steep discount for multiple purchases, and a normal business practice. I think all the other manufacturers should have followed suit. But, that never happened (and won’t).

People now have a perceived “value” of these cars because of this and the quality issues. If Round 2 decided at a $12.99 price-point, I would buy several—much more if a case discount applies. If they go at $14.99 and up, I’ll be much choosier as I was with the last of JL’s releases. 

The pricing was established at the manufacturers level, not through a buying frenzy. With this info, I think buyers are somewhat in tune with the production costs, and the market will weed itself out of the bulk buyers and settle down to individual purchases. Yes, they will sell, but at a much slower pace.

These cars cost a bit to produce in small quantities, but the cost drops significantly as production increases. We are not talking about a cottage industry producer or mom and pop operation here. This is big business. 

If the pricing is increased to get “in line” with the other manufacturers’, this will most likely just be an increase of profit for the company, and no benefit to the buying market. 
The same pieces, with no improvements and no replacement parts, priced higher, would be more about greed and collectability, than catering to the hobbyist’s needs. I’m led to believe the quality issue is being addressed, so that may not be an issue.

I don’t think it would bode well to have bargain basement pricing, but I don’t think they need to get rich overnight either. There will always be the “gotta’ have it all” crowd, but that bunch will shrink significantly with raising prices.
The Bay will most likely be middle ground in all this.


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## AMX (Nov 1, 2005)

*Read This*

First, most hobby shops won't even sell these JL T-Jet or X-Trac cars anyway....they would get far too many returns cause people wouldn't know what they were buying and they would not be up to the buyers expectations.

Second, the mass market for these cars is the collector market. To hold a MAP pricing schedule over these notoriously cheap peoples heads will insure one thing...burnout after the first round of purchasing. (if you even get 1 round of purchasing)

No incentive for a guy (bottom feeder) to recoupe a whole 3 dollars per car by scalping them on ebay to pay for the other 5 cars he kept.

Believe it or not folks, theres your market. It is sad but true, but that is pretty much it. Don't get mad at me for pointing this out. I have a habit of telling it like it is on many forums and it rubs folks the wrong way.



If I am not correct explain why the current history of JL has played out like it has....

REH or whoever blows them out, a guy gets in bed with the wholesaler and sells them on ebay and the head company could care less as long as they are gone. If this DIDN'T happen there would be a wharehouse full of JL crap just like there is (was) Aurora junk.

I say sell to whoever your clientel is and if you can't meet their price point then get on with something else. I can assure you these things are coming in from China at pennies on the dollar. Even at 5 bucks a car there is a profit. Probably a 400 or 500% one.

Prove me wrong.


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