# Matched Lipo's?



## rccarpy (Feb 13, 2005)

Is there any way to know how good a lipo is verses another? Any kind of matching to be done on these? 
I havent even handled a Lipo, so Im lost, and want to get ready for when they take over the world...lol


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## TeamGoodwrench (Oct 14, 2002)

rccarpy said:


> Is there any way to know how good a lipo is verses another? Any kind of matching to be done on these?
> I havent even handled a Lipo, so Im lost, and want to get ready for when they take over the world...lol


I REALLY wouldn't worry about that. Remember -- you have 2 cells there. You can always balance them with a LiPo balancer or a balancing charger, but it isn't absolutely necessary. 

In addition, most tracks/series that are running them specify WHICH LiPo pack they are running -- most I have seen are using the Orion 3200 Carbon pack.


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## rccarpy (Feb 13, 2005)

TeamGoodwrench said:


> I REALLY wouldn't worry about that. Remember -- you have 2 cells there. You can always balance them with a LiPo balancer or a balancing charger, but it isn't absolutely necessary.
> 
> In addition, most tracks/series that are running them specify WHICH LiPo pack they are running -- most I have seen are using the Orion 3200 Carbon pack.



Ok, but how do you know if say you have 2 packs of the Orions wich one is better...I know they say that they are all the same...but come on, you know that isnt true...or is it?
So what does the balancer actually do for the packs? (longer run time, longer lasting, better performance?) and SHOULD you use one?


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## RPM (Dec 20, 2004)

Every Lipo two cell pack is like a team pack.

Lipos have a VERY low internal resistance so matching them would be useless.

You don't need a balancer if you charge the single cell on a charger set to one cell mode hookup to the balancer plug.

I just found the two wires (single cell) using a volt meter.
Soldered a new plug. :thumbsup: 

I never discharge a Lipo pack! :dude:


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## jdearhart (May 11, 2006)

rccarpy said:


> Ok, but how do you know if say you have 2 packs of the Orions wich one is better


You can cycle them on a GFX, just as you do the sub c cells. Tony Moffre and I bought two at the same time, and after seven consecutive cycles, they were both within a few seconds of each other, and the voltage was virtually the same. These were the Orion 3200 packs.


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## swtour (Oct 8, 2001)

> Tony Moffre and I bought two at the same time, and after seven consecutive cycles, they were both within a few seconds of each other, and the voltage was virtually the same. These were the Orion 3200 packs.


We've pretty much seen the same thing...although we have had at least 2 guys who had packs lose voltage. (Didn't hear any stories about doing anything funny with them) but these packs lost almost 2 tenths. (I also haven't heard if they got them to come back by balancing or not)

I have one pack that has been 'out of balance' twice when I checked it...

I didn't write down the voltages but they were something like 3.9 volts on one cell and 4.2 on the other. After balancing (I just use a ProPeak Quattro charger into each side of the battery to charge each cell after charging it normally on the Orion Advantage charger first. The CHARGED cell pretty much doesn't take any additional charge, and the lower voltage side took about 15 minutes to finish off at the low amperage charge rate.) Then the voltage was right back like the other 3 packs.


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## mustgofaster (Oct 17, 2006)

Some LiPo batteries are higher performance than others. The higher the discharge rate (which is rated in "C") the faster the energy can be released from the pack. Most packs range from 15c to 30c discharge rates. (you get what you pay for) Depending on your setup (which car, motor, traction) you may or may not be able to take advantage of the extra performance. For example, if you are running 2wd buggy on a loose track there is no need for a high C discharge rate since you can't put the power to the ground anyway. 

If you let them discharge below the manufacturers suggested voltage you will cause damage to the cells and they will never be the same. I have heard about people doing some things to their packs that have been discharged below the recommended voltage in order for them to "come back to life" but I would not recommend it. Just make sure you have a low voltage cut-off.


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## rccarpy (Feb 13, 2005)

mustgofaster said:


> Some LiPo batteries are higher performance than others. The higher the discharge rate (which is rated in "C") the faster the energy can be released from the pack. Most packs range from 15c to 30c discharge rates. (you get what you pay for) Depending on your setup (which car, motor, traction) you may or may not be able to take advantage of the extra performance. For example, if you are running 2wd buggy on a loose track there is no need for a high C discharge rate since you can't put the power to the ground anyway.
> 
> If you let them discharge below the manufacturers suggested voltage you will cause damage to the cells and they will never be the same. I have heard about people doing some things to their packs that have been discharged below the recommended voltage in order for them to "come back to life" but I would not recommend it. Just make sure you have a low voltage cut-off.


Ok thanks for all the info so far, its all great. My next question is if they have higher discharge rates, then whats the highest rate available?

I really want to thank you guys for the info....


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## jdearhart (May 11, 2006)

Carpy,

The discharge rate is based on more than just the C rating. To figure the max constant discharge amps, you multiply the C rate times the MAH and then divide by 1000 to get amps. So, for an Orion 3200, the discharge rate would be 3200 x 20c or 64 amps. Maxamps has a 12000 pack rated at 240 constant amps. The SMC 5000 is a 20c pack, but I've heard there is a 25c on the horizon. Orions new 3600 pack will be 25c.


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## DUBS (Oct 30, 2007)

Has anyone used the "NEW" Orion 3600 Lipo yet? IF so, how do you get the thing into a xray 007?


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## rccarpy (Feb 13, 2005)

jdearhart said:


> Carpy,
> 
> The discharge rate is based on more than just the C rating. To figure the max constant discharge amps, you multiply the C rate times the MAH and then divide by 1000 to get amps. So, for an Orion 3200, the discharge rate would be 3200 x 20c or 64 amps. Maxamps has a 12000 pack rated at 240 constant amps. The SMC 5000 is a 20c pack, but I've heard there is a 25c on the horizon. Orions new 3600 pack will be 25c.



Thank you...now this makes sence.


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## 98Ron (Jun 14, 2004)

At what voltage difference between the cells of my 3200 carbon would it be considered out of balance?


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## ta_man (Apr 10, 2005)

98Ron said:


> At what voltage difference between the cells of my 3200 carbon would it be considered out of balance?


I dunno specifically about your 3200 but my Hyperion balancer decided that .01 volts was too much difference and brought the cells in my 4S pack to the same voltage within the ability of my meter to read (2 digits after decimal point - out to .01).

Before balancing the 4S pack I measured as much as .02V variance. After balancing, no variance detectable on my meter out to hundredths of a volt.


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## 98Ron (Jun 14, 2004)

ta thanks, I have a BALANCER and just wondered what the guidelines would be to use it.


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## TeamGoodwrench (Oct 14, 2002)

ta_man said:


> I dunno specifically about your 3200 but my Hyperion balancer decided that .01 volts was too much difference and brought the cells in my 4S pack to the same voltage within the ability of my meter to read (2 digits after decimal point - out to .01).
> 
> Before balancing the 4S pack I measured as much as .02V variance. After balancing, no variance detectable on my meter out to hundredths of a volt.


Just out of curiosity, I just checked the cells in my Orion 3200 Carbon -- which has 1 full day of racing on it (approx. 7 charges in one day). It has been sitting for a week or so since then. I checked it with a good meter (Fluke 75); one cell is at 3.89 and the other is at 3.96.


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## shrabber (Oct 17, 2002)

The Smc 5000 Is 22c And Weighs 8.9 Ounces


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## TeamGoodwrench (Oct 14, 2002)

shrabber said:


> The Smc 5000 Is 22c And Weighs 8.9 Ounces


I had heard that one wasn't a hard pack though ? Where is there info on it ?


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## TeamGoodwrench (Oct 14, 2002)

I found the SMC info -- yes it's a 5000 mah 22C pack, but not a hard case :-(

I also just got one of the new Orion Carbon 3600 packs which is a 25C hard case pack. It will be interesting to test the Orion 3600 25C against the Orion 3200 20C.


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## shrabber (Oct 17, 2002)

Is it bad to have a soft case or is it just no legal yet?


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## TeamGoodwrench (Oct 14, 2002)

shrabber said:


> Is it bad to have a soft case or is it just no legal yet?


I think from a safety standpoint I wouldn't want to run anything but a hard case -- in case of crashes, etc. you need some protection of the cells. Most others -- i.e. Peak/Orion, TrakPower, Associated/Reedy are all hard case.

As far as "legal", I think pretty much each track is setting up their own rules on the LiPo batteries, but many are using the Orion Carbon 3200 hard case for their rules.


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## gezer2u (Sep 25, 2001)

What is SMC waiting for? Now, Venom has a hard case too.


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## jdearhart (May 11, 2006)

I've been told they're working on one, possibly to be ready by the Birds. If you're really worried about it, you could bend a piece of lexan to cover the left side of the battery.


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## RPM (Dec 20, 2004)

jdearhart said:


> I've been told they're working on one, possibly to be ready by the Birds. If you're really worried about it, you could bend a piece of lexan to cover the left side of the battery.


That's all you need to do until battery companies catch up! :thumbsup:


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