# Routing a test track



## tossedman (Mar 19, 2006)

Hey y'all,

I'm routing a test track to see how installing stitching wire might work. Most continuous rail tracks seem to use lock wire in a 1/16" rail slot to hold the stitching wire in place. I managed to get my hands on some 0.5 mm routing bits on that auction site last fall. That's the same width as the wire so the plan is to route the slots and then build a jig to route the rail slots.

First I drew out the plan. The board is only 2' X 4' so it's small and tight but it'll let me know how it all works out. A big ol' compass makes drawing the corners so easy and fast. This thing was my Dad's from years ago. It'll draw circles with over a 13" radius. Priced one out the other day and they're nearly 50 bucks! Yikes!










I have two routers. A big Porter Cable and a little Proxxon. I used the Proxxon with the trammel guide to cut out the corners. The Proxxon has tiny collets that'll hold smaller bits really easily. The vacuum works great on both machines. Absolutely no dust! Had to duct tape the back opening on the Porter Cable to contain the dust though. The Proxxon sucks it ALL up right out of the box.










I used the Porter Cable for the straights because it has a round base. Makes it so easy to follow a straight edge. I tried the Proxxon with it's rectangular base and was pulling my hair our trying to get it to follow the straight edge, it just wouldn't do it. Gave up in frustration and later that night in bed had an epiphany. Last time I did this I only used the router with the round base. D'oh!










Here's the jig I made for the Proxxon to follow the slot and make the rail slots. Those two big pins are a shade under 1/16 of an inch so they'll slide along the slot without too much play. That tiny bit is 0.5 mm wide!  That's about 20 thousandths of an inch. Same width as the stitching wire (or box stay wire as it properly called apparently; it's used to staple cardboard boxes together, not books). The jig works well in following the slots.










Here's a shot of the router bit by itself. You can see how big it is, each of the big squares on the grid is one inch.










I'm not too sure about the durability of these tiny bits. I've broken a couple already, testing on some scrap. I may end up routing 1/16" rail slots and use lock wire. Something like this.










And finally for tonight here's the routed slots. Have to shut down for the day as my three year is in bed and routing after bed time isn't too popular for some reason. :mmph:










The eventual plan is to have a CNC routed track using Sintra instead of MDF. Apparently though it's hard to route the rail slots accurately using the CNC router as you can't get a consistent depth of the slot because the CNC router measures from the bottom up and the Sintra apparently isn't of a uniform thickness. So.... I'm seeing how to best do it by hand. The slots for the cars though can be CNC routed. Got all that?

More to follow,

Cheers.

Todd


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## Hilltop Raceway (Feb 12, 2006)

Wow, That is a small bit!!! I'm guessing a single flute??? Don't think it'll hold up in plastic, I don't know??? Can I ask where you get those?...RM


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## tossedman (Mar 19, 2006)

Found them on eBay last September or so. Check it out here http://www.bitguy1.com/ He doesn't have any now but they come and go.

Tried them on some samples of sintra and they worked pretty good. 

Todd



Hilltop Raceway said:


> Wow, That is a small bit!!! I'm guessing a single flute??? Don't think it'll hold up in plastic, I don't know??? Can I ask where you get those?...RM


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## darryl (Dec 24, 2006)

*wire ?*

where did you get the wire in the slot,what size is it,and how much does it cost? thanks


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## tossedman (Mar 19, 2006)

Hey Darryl,

It's Box Stay Wire or stitching wire. I got it from WCJ Pilgrim Wire. It's the 2,50 mm x 0,50 mm or 0.103" x 0.020" wire. It costs about $2.00/lb and there's a 50 pound minimum order. You can get five 10 pound rolls or two 25 pound rolls. The 10 lb. roll is about 1400 feet of wire. I bought five rolls and sold 3 of them to friends at cost. 

Todd



darryl said:


> where did you get the wire in the slot,what size is it,and how much does it cost? thanks


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## tossedman (Mar 19, 2006)

*New baseplate and technique*

So I've tried to route the rail slots with this jig but it's got a little play in it, enough to break those tiny 0.5 mm bits. I'm going to make a new jig that will follow a piece of 1/16 inch plastic strip that I can place in the guide slot.

This one doesn't work, there's too much play.










So I'm going to try to build one like this out of UHMW polyethylene plastic.










With the round side following a piece of 1/16" plastic in the guide slot it should be easier to keep the bit the right distance from the slot with no jamming or sticking.

Any thoughts?

:cheers:

Todd


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## tossedman (Mar 19, 2006)

The plastic strips are 24" long Evergreen plastics strips 0.060" X 0.375" and fit in the 1/16" routed slot perfectly. Very snug fit.

Here's the plastic for the baseplate. I've got lots more if I blow it on this piece.










And the plastic for the slots.










A couple of strips in the slot. They fit end to end very tightly and easily bend to follow the curves.










They ride high enough that the baseplate should have no trouble following.










Todd


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

Just a thought that half-circle is probably going to give you the same problem...well the same result anyway in that the slightest "tilt" of the base/router will probably snap that tiny bit. 

What about something like this for more support (sorry for the quick-n-dirty edit but you can see my point):










With a base like this you could straddle the guide, resting flat on all 4 corners.

*This would be easier to make as well...simply make a square base then attach the triangular and rectangular parts to it...no fancy machine work needed


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## tossedman (Mar 19, 2006)

Good point! Hadn't thought of tilting to break the bit but break it it would. These things are pretty fragile. I'll take a second look. Thanks Gene.

Your quick and dirty edit is perfect. Point well made.

Todd




SwamperGene said:


> Just a thought that half-circle is probably going to give you the same problem...well the same result anyway in that the slightest "tilt" of the base/router will probably snap that tiny bit.
> 
> What about something like this for more support (sorry for the quick-n-dirty edit but you can see my point):
> 
> ...


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## tossedman (Mar 19, 2006)

Here's the modified baseplate with Gene's suggestions. I still want the round shape to ride against the fence though because no matter what angle it's at the bit's still at the same distance from the fence.










Todd


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

Actually, thinking further on it....you could simplify it even more, perhaps with better results too. Make a baseplate with 4 feet and a full center hole, then buy (if available) or make a porter-cable style bushing for your bit offset. These feet are exagerated a bit but you get the point.


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

tossedman said:


> The plastic strips are 24" long Evergreen plastics strips 0.060" X 0.375" and fit in the 1/16" routed slot perfectly. Very snug fit.
> 
> Todd


Todd,
Do they stay in the slot well enough to be used as a guide for routing subsequent guide slots?

Joe


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## tossedman (Mar 19, 2006)

Hey Joe,

They're a very snug fit. The Evergreen styrene strips are 0.060" wide, the 1/16" slot is 0.0625". The strips are only 25 ten thousandths of an inch narrower. Go get some and give them a whirl. You'll need some kind of round base that's 1.5" from the bit to do it easily. 

Todd



Grandcheapskate said:


> Todd,
> Do they stay in the slot well enough to be used as a guide for routing subsequent guide slots?
> 
> Joe


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## tossedman (Mar 19, 2006)

You're a good man to have around Swamper! Simple is good.

I've come up with Plan C. A new design for a base plate based on Gene's idea. I looked online for router template guides but the smallest I found was too big so I started looking at the brass tubing I had lying around - but it was all too small. Then I started looking at round things around the house - pens, glue sticks, lip balm tubes, and so on but they were all too small or too big. I then looked at one of my son's felt markers. It's perfect. It'll give me about .280" between the rails. Now I just have to figure out how to glue the darn thing to the UHMW polyethylene plastic that I'm using for the base plate. If I can't glue it I'll try making the base plate out of something else.

Here's a SketchUp drawing of the latest plan:










:cheers:

Todd



SwamperGene said:


> Actually, thinking further on it....you could simplify it even more, perhaps with better results too. Make a baseplate with 4 feet and a full center hole, then buy (if available) or make a porter-cable style bushing for your bit offset. These feet are exagerated a bit but you get the point.


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

Thanks Todd 

As far as attaching the "tube" to the plate, what about drilling or routing a hole large enough to glue it _through_ the plate, not just to the surface?


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## tossedman (Mar 19, 2006)

Yeah, I'd thought of that and I'll give it a try. I just don't think there's too much glue that sticks to the UHMW polyethylene plastic. I'll probably have to use another material for the base.



SwamperGene said:


> Thanks Todd
> 
> As far as attaching the "tube" to the plate, what about drilling or routing a hole large enough to glue it _through_ the plate, not just to the surface?


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## Tsooko (Oct 15, 2009)

Gene
You have a good mind for solving problems! If you drilled the hole just a tad smaller then the "tube" that would give a friction fit that could help hold things in place. I haven't heard of a glue that sticks to uhmw.

Cheers Ted


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## tossedman (Mar 19, 2006)

You guys are just making this easier and easier. I can get a 14 mm forstner bit for $8.50. I'm off to Lee Valley Tools on the way home from work.

Todd



Tsooko said:


> Gene
> You have a good mind for solving problems! If you drilled the hole just a tad smaller then the "tube" that would give a friction fit that could help hold things in place. I haven't heard of a glue that sticks to uhmw.
> 
> Cheers Ted


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

Any pics?


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## tossedman (Mar 19, 2006)

Not yet, still rounding up all the bits to make the jig.

Todd



NTxSlotCars said:


> Any pics?


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## tossedman (Mar 19, 2006)

*2nd attempt at a baseplate*

OK so I've revised the plans and will be building a version of this:










Got some plexiglass from Ted yesterday. Thanks Ted, you came through just in time. First thing I did was drill the holes through the baseplate to attach it to the router. As I tested the fit, I plunged the 1/16" bit into the plexiglass to mark the centre of the hole to be drilled.










Then I took the plate off and cut it to size using a jig saw with a fairly fine toothed blade.










Then I drilled the centre hole with a 14 mm Forstner bit. I didn't know if it would work very well as this plastic is pretty brittle and doesn't always play well with tools.










Next, I test fit the plastic tube from the marker pen. It's a bit too tight.










A bit of sanding with a piece of 5/32 brass tubing with sandpaper wrapped around loosened it up enough and made for a perfect fit.










Here's the result with the tube cut to length.










Here it is waiting for the other pieces of plexiglass to be glued to the bottom with the small router it's going to be attached to sitting beside it.










Comments and critiques always welcome. More to come...

Cheers,

Todd


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## Tsooko (Oct 15, 2009)

Looking good Todd. :thumbsup:
Nice solution for the wobbly / sticky pin thing.
Can't wait to hear how it works.

Your welcome for the pexiglass. Hard to believe the postal service was that quick.

Cheers Ted


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## tossedman (Mar 19, 2006)

Thanks Ted,

Nothing happening today, gotta buy glue and had to watch a hockey game. YEAH CANADA!!!!

Todd



Tsooko said:


> Looking good Todd. :thumbsup:
> Nice solution for the wobbly / sticky pin thing.
> Can't wait to hear how it works.
> 
> ...


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## tossedman (Mar 19, 2006)

It works! I stopped by my local plastic supply house and picked up some poison to glue the acrylic with. While there I spotted these little acrylic drawer pulls so I bought one. Why a drawer pull you may ask. Well, I had an epiphany while standing there trying to figure out what to buy.

Here's the drawer pull. Seems like black and white shows off the detail in the clear acrylic the best.










Here's what I did with it. I cut off all but the circle and glued it and the 4 support blocks to the baseplate. The circle is about 0.064" away from the tubing that's the guide. Just enough to slip over the styrene strip and stop me from wandering too far as my mind goes on me whilst routing. 










Here's another angle.










Here are a couple of shots of the baseplate sitting astride the styrene strip in the slot.










Baseplate on the router.










Router with baseplate sitting on the MDF over the styrene strip. The styrene strip is that little white rectangle below the router.










This was the slot I routed using the pin jig. Got about 10 inches or so and broke 2 of the tiny bits due to binding of the pins. And that was on the straight!










Here you can see the result of tonights test routing. The rail is in and fits like a glove. A few drops of glue to hold it down and it'd be perfect, if I could measure that is. Cut both of these slots too deep. Guess that's why you do a test track eh? I've actually got the rails sitting quite high so you can see them better in the photos.

Here's the complete corner I routed tonight. Had to stop again because it got too late and his nibs is asleep. 










It worked a charm. I'm very happy with it. I'll try to get more done in the next few days. And I'll measure twice (or thrice) before cutting next time.

Cheers,

Todd


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## slotcarman12078 (Oct 3, 2008)

Very interesting.!! I was having a hard time visualizing the process used in this thread until the last grouping of pics. Very cool method!! :thumbsup::thumbsup: You're making me think about routed!!


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

tossedman said:


> Hey Joe,
> 
> They're a very snug fit. The Evergreen styrene strips are 0.060" wide, the 1/16" slot is 0.0625". The strips are only 25 ten thousandths of an inch narrower. Go get some and give them a whirl. You'll need some kind of round base that's 1.5" from the bit to do it easily.
> 
> Todd


Todd,
Where did you purchase the styrene strips?

I REALLY like the finished jig. With a slight modification to the gap between the bit and "pen tube", you could easily make a jig for routing the slots. And the addition of the drawer puller makes it even better.

I want to try my test track with braid, but the method will be the same. I was also wondering - what if you couldn't get a bit as small as the one you found, and needed to rout a larger rail pocket. Have you ever thought about double or triple railing; in other words, putting two or three rails into each pocket to take up the extra space? This would of course increase the surface area of the top of the rail and increase the downforce, unless of course you could get non-magnetic rail and then use one magnetic rail and 2-3 non-magnet rails. The larger surface area for the rails might be a good thing - more contact area and possibly less shoe wear. The rail certainly seems cheap enough.

Thanks...Joe


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## tossedman (Mar 19, 2006)

Joe I got the strips at the hobby shop closest to my work which happens to be a model train place mostly. They're Evergreen plastic strips. Should be easy to find.

What scale are you making your track? If it's bigger than HO get Luf's strip from Oldslotracer.com. Haven't seen an HO track with braid, does it work well?

You're right the technique should work well for routing the other slots as well. Just need to have a larger circle to be the guide.

If this 0.5 mm bit doesn't pan out I'll route 1/16" rail slots and hold the rail in with lock wire. That's what most of the commercial track builders already do. You put the rail in and press the wire in beside it to make it a tight fit with some glue to make sure it doesn't lift up. Something like this:










I don't think you'd want to put more than one rail in because the magnetic attraction would become too much. Cars wouldn't go too well I think, especially some of the high downforce cars. Might burn out some motors or controllers.

I was a bit over zealous yesterday when I tried the jig. The adhesive hadn't really set up well enough and one of the blocks on the bottom fell off. Guess I should have followed the instructions and waited a day or two before using it. I glued it on this evening and will wait until tomorrow to try again.

Have to admit though I'm itching to give it another go.

Todd




Grandcheapskate said:


> Todd,
> Where did you purchase the styrene strips?
> 
> I REALLY like the finished jig. With a slight modification to the gap between the bit and "pen tube", you could easily make a jig for routing the slots. And the addition of the drawer puller makes it even better.
> ...


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

Hi Todd,
I have a small train store close to me and when I get a chance I will stop by.

Multiple rails would only work if all but one of them were non-magnetic. It was just a thought and the lock wire does seem to be the way other track builders do it. Even thought about using a magnetic "lock wire" (say rebar tie wire) with a non-magnetic "rail". Then the depth of the lock wire could be lower than the power rail; a way to dial in the desired amount of downforce. You would have to get the right height difference between the lock wire and the power rail so you could seat both of them all the way down and the power rail would be the correct height with the lock wire lower.

I have not personally tried braid, but I believe it is good with hard pickups as long as it is slight raised and not set flush with the top if the racing surface. You would make the braid flush if the cars were using a braid pickup system (like 1/43rd). I bought 25 ft. of both magnetic and non-magnetic braid to try out.

How did you get such clean cuts on the plexiglass? What method did you use? If you go into the jig making business, let me know. 

Joe


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## tossedman (Mar 19, 2006)

Grandcheapskate said:


> Hi Todd,
> I have a small train store close to me and when I get a chance I will stop by.


I'm pretty sure they'll have it. Scratchbuilders use it all the time for their RR's.



> Multiple rails would only work if all but one of them were non-magnetic. It was just a thought and the lock wire does seem to be the way other track builders do it. Even thought about using a magnetic "lock wire" (say rebar tie wire) with a non-magnetic "rail". Then the depth of the lock wire could be lower than the power rail; a way to dial in the desired amount of downforce. You would have to get the right height difference between the lock wire and the power rail so you could seat both of them all the way down and the power rail would be the correct height with the lock wire lower.


I think the less variables the better. Hard enough getting the rail to the right height never mind trying to get the right magnetic downforce with another wire is my thought. If you make it work let me know. The lock wire used is copper so nonmagnetic. It's only job is to 'lock' the rail into place.



> I have not personally tried braid, but I believe it is good with hard pickups as long as it is slight raised and not set flush with the top if the racing surface. You would make the braid flush if the cars were using a braid pickup system (like 1/43rd). I bought 25 ft. of both magnetic and non-magnetic braid to try out.


Let us know how it works. I smell another 'test track' thread coming up.



> How did you get such clean cuts on the plexiglass? What method did you use? If you go into the jig making business, let me know.
> 
> Joe


I just used a variable speed jig saw with a fairly fine toothed blade. It was the finest toothed one in my box anyways. Worked fine but wouldn't produce smooth enough cuts to glue I think (not that that mattered here, I glued the flat surfaces together).

If I go into business will all depend on my partner with all the hardware to do so. I'm just the idea guy (some of the time - he's got way more than me most of the rest of the time).

Todd


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## tossedman (Mar 19, 2006)

OK so I can cut and glue and work a router but I can't measure or do math very well. A picture is worth a thousand words so here's two thousand...



















Anyone else see a problem here?  

Rail Jig Mark II begins tomorrow. :lol:

Todd


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

tossedman said:


> Anyone else see a problem here?


Not if your car is bow-legged (or rather, suffers from bow-shoe)!

Joe


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## tossedman (Mar 19, 2006)

I think it's pigeon toed (shoed?). Might make it knock kneed. I hate it when my cars have a knock.



Grandcheapskate said:


> Not if your car is bow-legged (or rather, suffers from bow-shoe)!
> 
> Joe


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## tossedman (Mar 19, 2006)

*Mk III*

So I tracked down some 1/2" acrylic tubing that ought to work great for Routing Jig Mk III. I needed a half inch of the stuff, too bad I had to buy 6 feet. Oh well, if this works I can make lots more.

So, same as the last jig, just a little neater and 1/2" tubing. This will give rail spacing of 9/16" or 0.5625". Should be pretty good. You'll notice how I did the math before I built the jig eh!










A half inch forstner but cuts a nice clean hole in the acrylic. The tubing fits perfectly.










One drop of adhesive is all that's needed and capillary action sucks it into the joint.










Here's the completed jig. I'm going to give it time to set up this time. Don't want it falling apart too early due to over zealousness (like the last one!).










Here they are Mk I, Mk II and Mk III. Each one has been a learning experience.










And just Mk II and Mk III. Main difference is the size of the tubing. Ought to provide proper spacing for the rails.










Hopefully tomorrow I get a chance to route.

Will post pics then.

Cheers,

Todd


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## tossedman (Mar 19, 2006)

Here's the result of the latest jig. 

This one's with the 0.50 mm router bit and stitching wire.










Here it is with a 1/16" slot and the stitching wire held in place wire lock wire. The lock wire is too small but all I could find at 9:00 pm on a Saturday night - it came from a junk box in the basement.










Too narrow now? I'm thinking so....

Apparently measuring isn't one of my strong points. I'm getting good at making jigs though.

Cheers,

Todd


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## Hilltop Raceway (Feb 12, 2006)

If you can wrap a small piece of thin plastic around the guide tube, glue it in place, you might be just right. Maybe some clear packaging plastic from a hot wheels car. Also, Plastic tape might work as long as it doesn't give. It would save you from making another jig if it works...RM


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

You can buy UHMV tape, not sure how thick it is though. Rather than try to wrap it around the tube where it'll wear on the same basic spot, I'd add a layer to the plastic guide.

:thumbsup:


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## tossedman (Mar 19, 2006)

Hilltop Raceway said:


> If you can wrap a small piece of thin plastic around the guide tube, glue it in place, you might be just right. Maybe some clear packaging plastic from a hot wheels car. Also, Plastic tape might work as long as it doesn't give. It would save you from making another jig if it works...RM





SwamperGene said:


> You can buy UHMV tape, not sure how thick it is though. Rather than try to wrap it around the tube where it'll wear on the same basic spot, I'd add a layer to the plastic guide.
> 
> :thumbsup:


Good ideas guys, thanks. I have some clear plastic packaging around and some plastic for vacuum forming. I'll play around and see which thicknesses are appropriate. Seems easy to glue some plastic on. Gene the tape'd work too. Either way though I'll have to move the drawer pull back a tad or nothings going to fit anymore.

Cheers,

Todd


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## tossedman (Mar 19, 2006)

OK, so I wasn't quite ready to make a new jig just yet. I was going to wrap and glue a strip of plastic around the 1/2" tubing on the jig and try that first. I had a vacuum formed strawberry container that had just been emptied so I cut a strip out of that last night and tacked it on to the tubing. Wrapped it around and measured - too small. I have some thicker plastic at school that we've used for vacuum forming in the past so I cut a couple of strips of that to try at home today.

On the way home I had the brainstorm of plunking the jig down on a piece of Tyco track and seeing how far out I was. I put the styrene strip in the slot and lined up Jig Mk II (herein known as Jig 2) and plunged a hole. It was a bit outside the tyco rails. 

Knowing the plastic I'd tack glued onto Jig Mk III (herein known as Jig 3) was too thin I popped it off to see where this jig lined up. Before I did that I popped off the drawer pull thinking that when I glued on a thicker strip I'd have to move it anyways.

I then proceeded to plunge a hole using the jig with no strip of plastic glued to it. It was a bit inside the Tyco rail.  Then I lifted the jig over the styrene strip and plunged another hole with the opposite side of the tubing to the styrene strip. Lo and behold it's pretty much dead centre in the Tyco rail slot.  So I flip it around to the other side with the same side of the jig lined up and plunge a few more. All in the centre - or close enough. Remember, there's good and there's good enough. Cool! 

So I glued the drawer pull on to the other side of the jig which for some reason or another (remember I can't measure!) is not the same distance from the router bit on both sides. 

I'll wait for it to dry until tomorrow and then try making some more sawdust. :wave:

Here are the pictures:

The Tyco track with two rails ripped out and holes all over the place.










The newly modified Jig Mark III.V










Todd


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

The problem is that while in most woodworking applications getting within a 32nd of an inch is considered "perfect", on an HO track that same 32nd might as well be a foot. That's half a slot's width. :freak:


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## Hilltop Raceway (Feb 12, 2006)

I agree with SG, if you move your router or turn it the wrong way, your' gonna be off. If you can keep your router in the same spot, against your guide, it might work. May be time for jig IV. Doesnt's sound like your tube is centered with your bit. It's a great idea, just needs to be tweaked...RM


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## tossedman (Mar 19, 2006)

Gave it whirl again today guys. Here's the result, a one inch section of track. You can see the previous attempts in the background.

Jig Mk III.V

Howzzat?










Cheers,

Todd


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

Much better :thumbsup:


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

The tolerance when working in HO is so small that any little "oops" looks like a major malfunction. You are probably off only the slightest amount, yet the result looks bad when viewed under a magnified lens.

The rail you are using is so narrow that you can't afford to be off even 1/64th of an inch; and I don't know how you get that kind of precision with hand made tools. So one way around this problem is to use a wider rail. That could mean either using braid (which is either 1/4" or 3/8" wide) or doing the double or triple railing I mentioned earlier.

But you are on the right track with what you are doing. You just have to get the jig set to a really high tolerance. Maybe once you know you have the method down pat, you could get one fabricated at a machine shop?

Joe


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## tossedman (Mar 19, 2006)

You're right there Joe, it doesn't take much to be way off working in this scale. One thing about 1/32, you don't have to worry about any of this.

I'm going to stick with the narrow rail as I don't want to change the magnetic attraction too much from what plastic track is. The rail I'm using is 0.50 mm wide and the Tyco track I tore up yesterday has rail that's about 0.40 mm. Mines a bit wider but no too much.

I'm going to work with this more and make sure it works well enough and accurately enough with constant repeatablility. Once I have it all figured out I'll see if my buddy Ted can make me one on his CNC router. He says it shouldn't be a problem and I can draw up a plan in Adobe Illustrator.

That sounds like another thread though.

Cheers,

Todd



Grandcheapskate said:


> The tolerance when working in HO is so small that any little "oops" looks like a major malfunction. You are probably off only the slightest amount, yet the result looks bad when viewed under a magnified lens.
> 
> The rail you are using is so narrow that you can't afford to be off even 1/64th of an inch; and I don't know how you get that kind of precision with hand made tools. So one way around this problem is to use a wider rail. That could mean either using braid (which is either 1/4" or 3/8" wide) or doing the double or triple railing I mentioned earlier.
> 
> ...


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## slotnewbie69 (Dec 3, 2008)

looking good!:thumbsup:keep us posted!


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## Hilltop Raceway (Feb 12, 2006)

tossedman said:


> Gave it whirl again today guys. Here's the result, a one inch section of track. You can see the previous attempts in the background.
> 
> Jig Mk III.V
> 
> ...


Woo Hoo!!! That looks good, as long as you can route it that way, all the way around. Put a mark on the router base and hold that mark to the guide rail as your routing...RM


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

Todd,
On a different subject, have you "tested" different chassis for magnetic downforce with the stiching wire? What I mean is different chassis require a different amount of downforce just to pull the front wheels to the track surface. On non-magnet track (such as copper tape), the fronts on chassis like the Tyco 440-X2 or Aurora Super-Mags do not touch the track surface. Have you achieved front tire contact?

I don't know if you mentoned earlier, but what height are you trying to achieve with the rail?

Thanks...Joe


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## Tsooko (Oct 15, 2009)

:thumbsup: Looking much better Todd!

In anticipation of the completion of this test base plate I have obtained a piece of 1/2" pexiglass. The last time I calibrated the cnc it was within .003" tolerance and I hope to get it better yet.
With the ability to center the guide tube to the router bit and keep the distances equal on all four sides of the plate where it attaches to the router with the four screws, accuracy will be phenominal. The rounded guide tube will allow you to move (wiggle) the router and still maintain the correct distance from slot to power rail. I am looking forward to helping with this project. 

Joe.
Todd has given me some of the same stitching wire the he is using which I have used on my track. I ripped out the rebar wire and replaced it with the flat wire. The cars I run are these: sg+, srt, 1.7 mega g, lifelike. and bsrt storm. The downforce is, as near as I can tell , equal to tomy track and pulls the front end down on all these cars. 
The rebar wire was almost twice that and created problems with the motors having to work harder to overcome the magnetic downforce. This also went through gears very fast, with many getting stripped. I think a lot of speed was also left on the track. I am way happier with the stitching wire.
Hope this helps.

Cheers Ted


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## noddaz (Aug 6, 1999)

*Ummm...*

If you are going to be using lock wire to hold the rail in won't the slot have to be offset to allow the rail to be centered on the pick up shoes?
With the lock wire and the rail both in the slot both will be off center from the center line of the slot itself...
And now, through the magic that is MS Paint...


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

Joe I would tend to agree with what others have posted about "stitching" wire...it's very probable that most routed track makers use it in one size or another. I've talked to numerous flat or shaped wire manufacterers and the initial costs and required quantities for a custom run are rather steep. And the flat wire they do sell often ends up being used for stitching wire even though it's not specifically marketed by them as such. Notice that even Brad Bowman refers to having "found" his various rail wires and not having it made to his specs.

As far as properties, I was at a stiching machine company and the manager made some good points regarding the characteristics of "stitcher" wire. One, it generally has to have fairly tight tolerances to avoid machine jams. If you hold a long enough sample against say a 15" Tomy rail this is very noticable. Second, in the thinner wires they specifically look for something that will hold up very well against corrosion as this wire is often used in retail applications for clothing bag closures and such, the last thing they need is rust ruining someones product.

If anyone has found a "similar to OEM track" reproduction, I'd think it would be you...what were the specs on the wire you used for the custom curves?


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

noddaz said:


> If you are going to be using lock wire to hold the rail in won't the slot have to be offset to allow the rail to be centered on the pick up shoes?
> With the lock wire and the rail both in the slot both will be off center from the center line of the slot itself...
> And now, through the magic that is MS Paint...


 
Yes. Your rail slot center would technically need to be offset by 1/2 the rail's thickness.


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## Hilltop Raceway (Feb 12, 2006)

noddaz said:


> If you are going to be using lock wire to hold the rail in won't the slot have to be offset to allow the rail to be centered on the pick up shoes?
> With the lock wire and the rail both in the slot both will be off center from the center line of the slot itself...
> And now, through the magic that is MS Paint...


With the smaller bit, I don't think he's planning to use any type of locking wire. If you look at the last pic, the wire fills up the slot, maybe room for a little glue...


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## tossedman (Mar 19, 2006)

Grandcheapskate said:


> Todd,
> On a different subject, have you "tested" different chassis for magnetic downforce with the stiching wire? What I mean is different chassis require a different amount of downforce just to pull the front wheels to the track surface. On non-magnet track (such as copper tape), the fronts on chassis like the Tyco 440-X2 or Aurora Super-Mags do not touch the track surface. Have you achieved front tire contact?
> 
> I don't know if you mentoned earlier, but what height are you trying to achieve with the rail?
> ...


Joe, Ted's been testing different cars on this stitching wire, results look good. Since I have about 2800 feet of the stuff I'm going t give it a go. It's similar to what the guys who are making commercial tracks are using.



Tsooko said:


> :thumbsup: Looking much better Todd!
> 
> In anticipation of the completion of this test base plate I have obtained a piece of 1/2" pexiglass. The last time I calibrated the cnc it was within .003" tolerance and I hope to get it better yet.
> With the ability to center the guide tube to the router bit and keep the distances equal on all four sides of the plate where it attaches to the router with the four screws, accuracy will be phenominal. The rounded guide tube will allow you to move (wiggle) the router and still maintain the correct distance from slot to power rail. I am looking forward to helping with this project.
> ...


Thanks Ted, I'll get drawing soon and have a plan for a CNC routed guide plate or two, one for use with lock wire and the 1/16" bit and one for use with the 0.50 mm bit.



noddaz said:


> If you are going to be using lock wire to hold the rail in won't the slot have to be offset to allow the rail to be centered on the pick up shoes?
> With the lock wire and the rail both in the slot both will be off center from the center line of the slot itself...
> And now, through the magic that is MS Paint...


You sir, are correct.



SwamperGene said:


> Joe I would tend to agree with what others have posted about "stitching" wire...it's very probable that most routed track makers use it in one size or another. I've talked to numerous flat or shaped wire manufacterers and the initial costs and required quantities for a custom run are rather steep. And the flat wire they do sell often ends up being used for stitching wire even though it's not specifically marketed by them as such. Notice that even Brad Bowman refers to having "found" his various rail wires and not having it made to his specs.
> 
> As far as properties, I was at a stiching machine company and the manager made some good points regarding the characteristics of "stitcher" wire. One, it generally has to have fairly tight tolerances to avoid machine jams. If you hold a long enough sample against say a 15" Tomy rail this is very noticable. Second, in the thinner wires they specifically look for something that will hold up very well against corrosion as this wire is often used in retail applications for clothing bag closures and such, the last thing they need is rust ruining someones product.
> 
> If anyone has found a "similar to OEM track" reproduction, I'd think it would be you...what were the specs on the wire you used for the custom curves?


This wire's a bit wider 0.50 mm vs 0.41 mm (varies slightly) than they Tyco rail. Ted's testing though shows that it works well.



SwamperGene said:


> Yes. Your rail slot center would technically need to be offset by 1/2 the rail's thickness.


Good to know others have come to the same conclusion as me. Now can anyone help me measure?



Hilltop Raceway said:


> With the smaller bit, I don't think he's planning to use any type of locking wire. If you look at the last pic, the wire fills up the slot, maybe room for a little glue...


You too are correct Hilltop. I'm going to give this a go with the smaller router bit and no lock wire - just a bit of glue - on my test track anyways. I'll see how it works. If it proves to be too troublesome I'll go back to the tried and true lock wire method that all the commercial guys use in one form or another. I don't know if any of them have found or tried using the narrow bit and no lock wire. Since you have to routed quite slowly it could get pretty tedious on a long track with six lanes.

Cheers,

Todd


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

SwamperGene said:


> If anyone has found a "similar to OEM track" reproduction, I'd think it would be you...what were the specs on the wire you used for the custom curves?


You would think so, wouldn't you? But I left the actual manufacturing process up to Danny as he has a working relationship with the fabricator. So I don't know where we got the wire, although I do want to ask him next time I see him.

I'm not a big fan of downforce. A Magna-Traction or HP-7 is the limit of what I like. But I do like the looks of the magnet cars, so I would like to run them on a track which would create a downforce similar to a Magna-Traction.

However, the problem with most magnet cars is you need a certain amount of downforce just to compress the pickup springs and bring the front tires to the track surface. Therefore I was wondering whether the stiching wire produced enough downforce to get those tires on the track; the answer seems to be YES since Todd compares the downforce to that of plastic track. If the stiching wire created more downforce than plastic track, it would not be to my liking.

Thanks...Joe


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## tossedman (Mar 19, 2006)

I'm with you on too much downforce Joe. I want it to be close to what we see with the OEM plastic tracks. A bit more is OK as it can be compensated for with different diameter tires. A ton more like Ted's Rebar wire track is way too much. I drove that track and it'd turn any car into a magnet car. Mag cars probably wouldn't move due to the excessive downforce. We put a stock G3 on there and it stuck like glue. I've got some G-jets that are fun and some Mega G's.

I don't know that the difference between this track and plastic track would be that noticeable. I'm thinking it's be to your liking.

OK back to work on this test track. Hard to believe a 4' X 2" track could take so long.

Cheers,

Todd



Grandcheapskate said:


> You would think so, wouldn't you? But I left the actual manufacturing process up to Danny as he has a working relationship with the fabricator. So I don't know where we got the wire, although I do want to ask him next time I see him.
> 
> I'm not a big fan of downforce. A Magna-Traction or HP-7 is the limit of what I like. But I do like the looks of the magnet cars, so I would like to run them on a track which would create a downforce similar to a Magna-Traction.
> 
> ...


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

Just curious Todd, have you tried that jig around a few curves yet?


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## tossedman (Mar 19, 2006)

SwamperGene said:


> Just curious Todd, have you tried that jig around a few curves yet?


Not yet, hopefully this weekend I'll get a chance to try it out. Filled in all the previous attempts though. Now I gets to start fresh. 

Todd


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

Reason I bring it up is I'm thinking of how the jig works, and I'm seeing one potential problem with the tube/drawer pull arrangement. If the angle to the guide strip changes, the space between the tube and drawer pull will get narrower, which will cause the jig to "pinch" the strip. 










Curious if that will result in the same "bump and wiggle" problem this jig is being built to overcome?


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## tiaragam1 (Oct 29, 2007)

SwamperGene said:


> Reason I bring it up is I'm thinking of how the jig works, and I'm seeing one potential problem with the tube/drawer pull arrangement. If the angle to the guide strip changes, the space between the tube and drawer pull will get narrower, which will cause the jig to "pinch" the strip.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



SG, maybe this sounds too simple, but why not double up on the tube/drawer (and reposition them on the tool) so that the guide strip would run through both sets and totally eliminate the "bump and wiggle" problem altogether?

Wouldn't this set up eliminate that variable and provide rail slots consistent with the groove?

Something to consider... Following this thread closely...

Randy


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

*No it's not a poor attempt at drawing SpongeBob....*



tiaragam1 said:


> SG, maybe this sounds too simple, but why not double up on the tube/drawer (and reposition them on the tool) so that the guide strip would run through both sets and totally eliminate the "bump and wiggle" problem altogether?
> 
> Wouldn't this set up eliminate that variable and provide rail slots consistent with the groove?
> 
> ...


That's actually similar to the method some of the larger scale track builders use. You could go as far as using small ball bearings (ie mag car motor bearings), something like this. Doing it this way, you'd apply pressure towards the back side of the guide and the tube would become the "safety".










The only consideration would be that you'd have to use a similar triangular-point jig for the lane slots as the position of the bearings would affect the angle (thus spacing) going into any curves.


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## Hilltop Raceway (Feb 12, 2006)

Not an expert here by any means, but with a little practice using the router, I think you'll get the feel of double pushing. That is pushing against the guide and pushing forward with the router, simultaneously. Actually, I'd think you'd want to push with pressure, at maybe a 45 degree angle as you go, keeping the forward motion and router towards the guide. The torque of the router should also keep it next to the guide while pushing. I know you want to push the router, not pull it. The back rollers, in a tight curve would tend to bind, depending on the spacing. Again, if the router base is round and the bit is correctly centered, the router base rotation or movement, want matter...RM
P.S. I'm enjoying this thread myself. Always eager to learn!!!


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## tossedman (Mar 19, 2006)

Hilltop you're bang on with the double pushing idea. I push against the styrene "fence" as it sits in the slot. The drawer pull I glued on doesn't ride against the fence at all, it sits a bit away from it. It's just there to stop those brain farts when I forget about pushing against the fence and forward at the same time. The jig would work fine without it.

If you've seen Luf's strip at oldslotracer.com it's the same idea on a smaller scale. I never come up with new ideas I just recycle other's. I guess I'm environmentally conscious. 

OK, I'm off to the basement to make sawdust. Will post pics later today.

Cheers eh!

Todd



Hilltop Raceway said:


> Not an expert here by any means, but with a little practice using the router, I think you'll get the feel of double pushing. That is pushing against the guide and pushing forward with the router, simultaneously. Actually, I'd think you'd want to push with pressure, at maybe a 45 degree angle as you go, keeping the forward motion and router towards the guide. The torque of the router should also keep it next to the guide while pushing. I know you want to push the router, not pull it. The back rollers, in a tight curve would tend to bind, depending on the spacing. Again, if the router base is round and the bit is correctly centered, the router base rotation or movement, want matter...RM
> P.S. I'm enjoying this thread myself. Always eager to learn!!!


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## tossedman (Mar 19, 2006)

Got back downstairs this afternoon and played some more. Every time I go down there I learn something new. Or I discover something that I should have thought of beforehand. Always an adventure eh!

Here you cans see the styrene strips in the slot. A package has 9 two foot pieces of styrene. I used eight. Easy way to measure your track too. Had to cut off 2 inches from one strip so 8 X 24 = 192 - 2 = 190 inches or 15.83333 feet. Did I ever tell you Bob's my uncle?










The vacuum hose was getting in the way as I routed so I hung it from the ceiling. One of the advantages of not finishing the basement. Worked well but could be 6" higher.










The jig worked well. Rails are spaced as per the diameter of the circle. Put some of the stitching wire in. Need to do a better job of cleaning all the sawdust out of the slots. When they're only 0.50 mm wide the sawdust doesn't get sucked out of the slots by the vacuum the way it does with the 1/16" slots. Therefore I have to scratch it out using a piece of stitching wire held in an x-Acto knife handle. I was in a rush and didn't get it all out and thus the rail sits too high. This all in spite of spending 20 minutes getting the depth of the router bit to exactly 0.09 inches so that the rail height was 0.013 inches on my tests on some scrap. I may need to fabricate a better tool to remove the sawdust. Has to be 0.50 mm wide so my options are limited.










A closer look.










After messing up with the Mk II and Mk III I filled in the slots that I'd routed earlier with some wood putty that I had lying around. Since I was out by only a half a millimetre or so before, when I routed with jig Mk III.V I was routing a slot right along side the filler. It didn't seem to like holding up with micro-millimetres of filler between the old slot and the new and thus I have a big slot... er... mess.










There was no binding at all with the jig using Hilltop's aforementioned double pushing technique. Worked very well. The only problem other than the filler was broken bits. I had two of the 0.050 mm router bits left (out of a package of 10 originally). I got the outside of the lane routed no problem and was on the home stretch with only 8 inches to go on the inside of the lane when I broke the bit by pushing too hard. No problem though as I had one bit left. I changed bits, put in the new one and then promptly snapped it off as I put it in the slot to restart. Oh well, they're ten more coming in the mail...










I've been using a BSRT G3 as my test car and then had the brainstorm of comparing the width of the pickup shoes to those of an A/FX Mega G 1.7. As you can see they're different. Of course they're different! Just so I have to measure more. 










You can really see the difference here. I'll have to find a happy medium as these are the two types of cars I have the most of.










I've been drawing up a plan to have a jig CNC routed. Ted (Tsooko) has graciously agreed to lend his expertise and CNC router to come up with something a bit more accurate than I've been able to fabricate.

As always, thanks for all the feedback, comments and suggestions. They all get me thinking about this in ways I hadn't thought of. Hopefully a working jig will come out of this. And from that a working track. Stay tuned!

Cheers,

Todd


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## Tsooko (Oct 15, 2009)

You ever wake up in the middle of the nite with an OMG idea? Most people go back to sleep and forget about it. Smart people keep a pencil and paper by their bed and write it down before going back to sleep. Me? 
I must of been thinking of how to clean the slot of sawdust before retirering.

Woke up and decided to grind a hook into the end of a piece of stitching wire with a dremel grinding wheel, after several attempts I though there must be a better way. The stitching wire was too soft and when I got a usable hook it didn't slide in the slot very well as it is the same thickness of the slot. So how about an exacto blade, very hard steel, should work. Again hard to do. So I turned it arround and cut out a piece from the slot. Hey that works, but it won't fit backwards in the knife holder.So I went looking for a holder that holds wider blades and found one. It had a saw mounted in it. Humm, saw has teeth, maybe it will fit in the slot. Ureka!!! It does and it is thinner than the slot making it easy to fit in and reach the bottom. Found other saw blades that fit and will clean out the slots of sawdust. The last three blades sticking up are jigsaw blades. You could cut the holding pins off. They all have teeth and all fit in the slot, some better than others. Cheap, easy solution without reinventing the wheel. I love sleep!!

Pics now.
Ted
Attached Thumbnails


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## Tsooko (Oct 15, 2009)

couple more pics
Ted


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

tossedman said:


> I've been using a BSRT G3 as my test car and then had the brainstorm of comparing the width of the pickup shoes to those of an A/FX Mega G 1.7. As you can see they're different. Of course they're different! Just so I have to measure more.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ya know, I started thinking about that the other day. The Super G has about the widest shoe hangar spacing of all modern, readily available cars. Suddenly this doesn't seem so bad:


tossedman said:


> Too narrow now? I'm thinking so....


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## tossedman (Mar 19, 2006)

SwamperGene said:


> Ya know, I started thinking about that the other day. The Super G has about the widest shoe hangar spacing of all modern, readily available cars. Suddenly this doesn't seem so bad:


Since my next jig will be custom made I'm going to go with the Tomy sizing which is 0.275" from the centre of the slot to the rail. 0.55" between the rails and we'll see how that goes. 

Just need to send the modified plan to Ted. I've also drawn up a jig to route the other lanes with 1.5" spacing. We'll see how that works as well. Any thoughts on 1.75" lane spacing?

Cheers,

Todd


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

tossedman said:


> Just need to send the modified plan to Ted. I've also drawn up a jig to route the other lanes with 1.5" spacing. We'll see how that works as well. Any thoughts on 1.75" lane spacing?
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Todd


Todd,

1.5" spacing is what you get on Tyco and Lifelike track. While I find that the proper lane spacing for T-Jets, it feels (and looks) too small for larger bodied cars. You mention you like the Tomy cars, so you should go with what looks good to you.

I raced on a routed track with wider lane spacing and I loved it. It seemed the track was more in proportion to the size of the larger cars; however, T-Jets looked a little too small. If I were routing a track, I would go with the larger lane spacing.

It comes down to personal taste. If you like the look of the Tomy cars on Tomy lane spacing (which is narrower than Tyco), then go with the 1.5"; it'll be slightly more than Tomy.

Joe


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## tossedman (Mar 19, 2006)

I think I'll stick with 1.5" spacing for now. Got a plan for Ted with that spacing on a routing jig to try out. Can always adjust it later if I want to try a different lane spacing.

Todd



Grandcheapskate said:


> Todd,
> 
> 1.5" spacing is what you get on Tyco and Lifelike track. While I find that the proper lane spacing for T-Jets, it feels (and looks) too small for larger bodied cars. You mention you like the Tomy cars, so you should go with what looks good to you.
> 
> ...


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

I like 1.5 myself too, 1.75 is good too but I usually feel a need to be able to hit something in the corners :thumbsup:

Truthfully, some of the most exiting racing I've ever experienced in my life has to be our old paper dirt mod T-Jet class on _Tomy_ track specifically, four guys racing through the corners with wheels interlocked and not crashing is just amazing.


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## tossedman (Mar 19, 2006)

SwamperGene said:


> I like 1.5 myself too, 1.75 is good too but I usually feel a need to be able to hit something in the corners :thumbsup:
> 
> Truthfully, some of the most exiting racing I've ever experienced in my life has to be our old paper dirt mod T-Jet class on _Tomy_ track specifically, four guys racing through the corners with wheels interlocked and not crashing is just amazing.


How's about a jig that'd let you route either 1.5" or 1.75"? Something like this?










Todd


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## Hilltop Raceway (Feb 12, 2006)

I like the way you think!!! I'm sure you could keep the router within a half turn while routing, or even have a milled spacer to slip over the inside tube. I'd go ahead and have him machine a spacer or base, to route the other lane slots. And while your at it, have a track edge spacer made. I cut my track out ot the MDF sheet , after I had the lanes/rails routed, with a router bit. Makes a nice finish...RM


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## tossedman (Mar 19, 2006)

Hilltop Raceway said:


> I like the way you think!!! I'm sure you could keep the router within a half turn while routing, or even have a milled spacer to slip over the inside tube. I'd go ahead and have him machine a spacer or base, to route the other lane slots. And while your at it, have a track edge spacer made. I cut my track out ot the MDF sheet , after I had the lanes/rails routed, with a router bit. Makes a nice finish...RM


A track edge spacer eh? Hmmmmmmm. Back to the drawing table, er... monitor... er... laptop. How wide would one want the gutters to be?

Todd


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## Tsooko (Oct 15, 2009)

Hilltop Raceway said:


> I like the way you think!!! I'm sure you could keep the router within a half turn while routing, or even have a milled spacer to slip over the inside tube. I'd go ahead and have him machine a spacer or base, to route the other lane slots. And while your at it, have a track edge spacer made. I cut my track out ot the MDF sheet , after I had the lanes/rails routed, with a router bit. Makes a nice finish...RM


You know that would work for making a slot for guard rails / walls too. Like on 'dobas track. Hummm 

Cheers Ted


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## Hilltop Raceway (Feb 12, 2006)

Works great for retainer walls especially on flat sections. When you get into banked tracks, the the angle of the slot changes depending on the degree of banking, so does the fit of the retainer wall. The higher the bank, the more the difficulty. In other words, take a strip of plastic and bend to a flat curve, no problem, now when you try to put the same strip into an angled slot on a banked turn, it doesn't fit the same. You're creating a compound curve. Now if you can cut the retainer walls with a curvature, instead of striaght strips, you can make them work. I could be missing something here also, so I'd check with Doba and see how his works...It's all about angles and gaps, when you start bending and putting 30's, 45's, etc. walls to 90's...RM


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## tossedman (Mar 19, 2006)

Hilltop Raceway said:


> Works great for retainer walls especially on flat sections. When you get into banked tracks, the the angle of the slot changes depending on the degree of banking, so does the fit of the retainer wall. The higher the bank, the more the difficulty. In other words, take a strip of plastic and bend to a flat curve, no problem, now when you try to put the same strip into an angled slot on a banked turn, it doesn't fit the same. You're creating a compound curve. Now if you can cut the retainer walls with a curvature, instead of striaght strips, you can make them work. I could be missing something here also, so I'd check with Doba and see how his works...It's all about angles and gaps, when you start bending and putting 30's, 45's, etc. walls to 90's...RM


For the ideal retaining wall you'd need to route the wall slot perpendicular to the table. Make it vertical regardless of the bank on the corner. My track will be flat so this is a no brainer. Those with banked corners will have a more difficult time of things. Someone ought to make a jig for something like that. 

Cheers,

Todd


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## tossedman (Mar 19, 2006)

Hilltop Raceway said:


> I like the way you think!!! I'm sure you could keep the router within a half turn while routing, or even have a milled spacer to slip over the inside tube. I'd go ahead and have him machine a spacer or base, to route the other lane slots. And while your at it, have a track edge spacer made. I cut my track out ot the MDF sheet , after I had the lanes/rails routed, with a router bit. Makes a nice finish...RM


Just re-reading things RM. When I routed the rail slots on my track I probably used a quarter inch or less of the router guide. It was easy to keep against the fence and follow. No Need for anything to hold it against the fence and possible cause binding. Just push in against the fence and push forward and Bob's yer uncle.

Cheeers,

Todd


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## slotcarman12078 (Oct 3, 2008)

This is a tricky problem with the banked curves. While the track lies on an angle, the wall needs to stay 90 degrees vertical. Depending on the severity of the bank would determine the angle of the slot at any given spot. The curve wouldn't be compound though, except for at the transition of the track at the point where the track isn't lying flat on the table, and this would depend on how short the transition is. Once the curve is level across the top it's a simple single bend until the transition out of the bank begins. Figuring out the angle of the slot for the wall is probably simple geometry, but the GED course only skimmed the surface. I would guess the figure for the slot angle would be the degree of the bank. This would bring the wall back to straight vertical. Wow!! I feel kinda smart today!!! :tongue: 

I'm not sure I'm right about this concept... Are walls on banked turns 90 to the track through the bank, or 90 degrees to level??? Hmmm...


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## tossedman (Mar 19, 2006)

So i drew up a plan and sent it to the master CNC wizard Ted and here's what he came up with: Router Jig Mk IV. This should give 0.275" spacing of the rails from the guide slot. I'll pick it up on the weekend and give a whirl. Thanks Ted - you da man!

Here it is on the CNC router. It's deceptive eh? Looks like he's cutting out the circles when he's actually cut away the material around them.









Now you can see what's been cut away.









Still need to drill the holes to mount the base plate on the router.









I'll use that 1/16" hole on the middle to line things up by putting a 1/16" bit in the router and the putting the bit through the hole. Then I'll mark the plate holes and drill them out. When that's all done I'll drill out the 1/16" hole to a 1/2" hole. When I learn to measure I'll have all of this done by CNC.









Cheers,

Todd


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

Looking good Todd (and Ted) :thumbsup:


But.....I'm gonna throw this out there as I know your measuring devices have been secretly playing tricks on you 


When you state...


> This should give 0.275" spacing of the rails from the guide slot.


...are you refering to the finished result measured from the center of the slot?

In other words, for your guide's outside radius, are you taking into account half the width of the slot and using this:








(good)

and not this:








(not so good)


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## Tsooko (Oct 15, 2009)

Hey Gene

When I measure from the center of the 1/16" hole drilled to the edge of the half circle guide that will rest on the styrene strip, I get .272". Baring any wiggles when Todd mounts the base to the router I figure .003" is pretty good, That is only a couple of hairs out ( a hair being .0015" thick). 
I guess we'll see how it works in real life soon 

Happy Easter everyone.

Cheers Ted


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

Tsooko said:


> Hey Gene
> 
> When I measure from the center of the 1/16" hole drilled to the edge of the half circle guide that will rest on the styrene strip, I get .272". Baring any wiggles when Todd mounts the base to the router I figure .003" is pretty good, That is only a couple of hairs out ( a hair being .0015" thick).
> I guess we'll see how it works in real life soon
> ...


Hiya Ted :wave:

I think what's confusing the issue is the fact that the slot is being routed _X_ distance from the _edge_ of the guide slot, not the center of it as with a pin jig.

Fingers crossed that I'm wrong, but I think the rails will be too far apart on this one....about 1/32 out on each side.


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## Tsooko (Oct 15, 2009)

You could be right. Different cars have different shoe width so I wonder if the distance is really that critical. My test track has a wider power rail spacing yet seems to work fine even for the narrow mega-g car.
The base plate is cut and took about a hour. If it is not to Todd's liking it won't take long to cut another with a different diameter for the guide circle.The cnc does all the work making adjustments quick and easy.
He has a plate design for a regular router that will be good for many different brands. Perhaps I'll cut that one out before he gets up here for this one, but I really want to do a track tomorrow... or two.
Stay tuned, more fun to come.

Cheers Ted


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## tossedman (Mar 19, 2006)

SwamperGene said:


> Hiya Ted :wave:
> 
> I think what's confusing the issue is the fact that the slot is being routed _X_ distance from the _edge_ of the guide slot, not the center of it as with a pin jig.
> 
> Fingers crossed that I'm wrong, but I think the rails will be too far apart on this one....about 1/32 out on each side.


Damn! I hate it when the man is right! But he's right. That jig was drawn up from centre to centre, not from the edge of the guide slot as it should have been. Why is 0.275" so darned hard to achieve. :freak: Probably because it's not to be found on any ruler that I've ever seen. You can uncross your fingers now Gene. :lol:

Ted, it's going to be off by 0.03125" like Gene said. Do the track though, we'll figure this out. :thumbsup:

OK, back to the drawing board. 

Todd


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

One of those times you hate to be right....:freak:

Since it looks like another jig may be coming, here's one more point to consider. Since the guide is above the track surface, you need to stay aware of your radius of tightest inside curves to avoid jig interference. I know that a wider support footprint (red line in photo) means greater stability, but you can't have it so wide that it won't fit into the top of your tightest inside curve.










Basically your tighest curve is limited to the width of the section of the base that touches the surface. 









More geometry to consider :freak:


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