# Okay, so I'm in the checkout line at WalMart...



## frankenstyrene (Oct 5, 2006)

...buying a couple packs of their black&yellow CA glue (four for a buck - better price per gram than any other brand they carry). 

So anyway, the clerk asks to see my ID. I asks why, she says cuz kids these days are sniffin' the stuff. 

Absurd - CA glue does nothing more to me than burn the eyes when you catch too much fume. Was she right? Are we now gonna have to show picture ID to buy CA glue at the pharmacy? 

Sorry if this has come up already - couldn't find a thread on it.


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## MadCap Romanian (Oct 29, 2005)

Yeah, there's a lot to say about these crazy regulations on "Substance Abuse". 

Basically though, any substance that contains certian chemicals, depending on the "Zone" they are in are subject to certian laws reguarding their "usage". 

In Calgary, they need ID for a person to buy Laquer Thinner and it's located behind a glass counter. In British Columbia, all CA model cement is now located behind the counter for the same reason. But in little High River, it's still like in the old days!


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## Jimmy B (Apr 19, 2000)

I have to give my D.O.B. atr the register at K-mart to buy primer


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## nx-o1troubles (Jul 20, 2006)

Even gayer than all of that: I was buying a model car at walmart once. And along with it I was getting a clear spray can. So I go up to the counter with my $50 and they ask for I.D. And I'm like why? Well she never said why she just kept nagging me for I.D. And then after that she said I couldn't personally pay for it. Well why not? Well something about how they couldn't sell it to me. So she said, I could buy the car and then my mom could go to another line or something stupid like that. Now we are like, wait a minute: my mom is right here so its obvious that she is approving of this purchase. Plus I have a model car so its also obvious that the can is for that. And after all this crap, I just take the fifty in my hand, (that my mom had given me), gave it to my mom, and said"here mom, you buy it" and she handed it to the lady. Now thats stupid. How would I even sniff that stuff with out getting paint all over my face and clothes and everything around me? I mean, there isnt any odor unless you spray...IDIOTS....


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## modelgeek (Jul 14, 2005)

I am a retail paint store manager and I hate that fact that I have to play law enforcement officer ..So i don't ..It may come back to bite me in the butt someday but for now I'm not concerned.. If some kids want to buy spray paint I tell them they must be 18 and they will put it back go get mom or dad .. They can do everything right and still abuse the inhalants and go spray graffitti how can i stop it once it is out the door


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## Dr. Brad (Oct 5, 1999)

MadCap Romanian said:


> In British Columbia, all CA model cement is now located behind the counter for the same reason.


Hadn't noticed that. Guess the store I buy mine at is a bit more liberal that way...


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## Roland (Feb 4, 1999)

I never run into this problem when I buy model supplies. I guess this a phenomen that is occurring in the more populated US states and cities?


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## rossjr (Jun 25, 2001)

I never run into this either, but old, grey and balding, so I guess it has some advantages....


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## frankenstyrene (Oct 5, 2006)

BTW: Big Lots (Odd Lots where you are, maybe) has tubes of CA gel for $1 that are almost the size of Testors standard orange and white tube. Gonna test to see if it's good stuff and if so, stock up - haven't seen it that cheap anywhere herebouts, not even Wally's brand.


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## Gerry-Lynn (Mar 20, 2002)

Roland - we are lucky being in the midwest - But it is coming this way - Soon. I use to work in a Psy Hospital - Kids have been "Huffy" paint, glue, etc. 
It is very Habit forming - IF - it does not kill them the first try. 

Gerry-Lynn

The Good old days... Uhm.


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## scotpens (Sep 6, 2003)

Roland said:


> I never run into this problem when I buy model supplies. I guess this a phenomen that is occurring in the more populated US states and cities?


It's a local and state matter. In California, you have to be 18 to buy any kind of aerosol paint -- that's been the law for some time now. Yeah, and you can see what an enormous impact it's had on the graffiti problem! (need "sarcasm/irony" emoticon)


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## Cro-Magnon Man (Jun 11, 2001)

So after all our worries over the years that kids are no longer buying into the model industry, we find out why...they're being asked for their ID and told they can't have the accessories! No wonder model shops are closing all over the world.


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## JGG1701 (Nov 9, 2004)

frankenstyrene said:


> BTW: Big Lots (Odd Lots where you are, maybe) has tubes of CA gel for $1 that are almost the size of Testors standard orange and white tube. Gonna test to see if it's good stuff and if so, stock up - haven't seen it that cheap anywhere herebouts, not even Wally's brand.


Is this the Super Glue brand that is marked "all purpose"?


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## rat salad (Oct 18, 2004)

Haven't kids been huffing glue since the 1960's?


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## brineb (Jun 12, 2007)

I was shocked when I was told I had to show I.D. to buy glue at Wal-Mart, heck I'm 48 and don't even pretend to pass for less than 40!!! Oh well, just another hassle, I do not have this problem at my local hobby shop, but I get supplies from a lot of sources.


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## flyingfrets (Oct 19, 2001)

I'm 47 (salt & pepper hair...gray beard, y'know...obviously *well* past 18). 

Had $237 & change rung up at Wally-world about a month ago and some kid with enough zits that I could've sanded my car with his face asks me for ID. I said "For what?" He says, "the can of laquer." I told him,"Son, I'm old enough to be your father and you know it. Hell, the guitar I'm refinishing is older than you are and I've had it since it was new." No explaination, just, "I'm sorry sir, I'll need to see some ID." I said, "Or what?" "I won't be able to complete the sale." 
So I smiled, said, "Fine. Have fun with your void and putting all that sh_t back on the shelves" and I walked out. Went across the street to K Mart & bought the laquer no questions asked.

BTW: Ever had 'em pull this one as they're ringing you up? "Your zip code please" or "Home telephone number please." 

I'm appalled at the privacy and freedoms we're giving away like lambs being led to the slaughter all in the name of "safety" and "security." Stop trying to save me from myself already...


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## fluke (Feb 27, 2001)

I feel sorry for most of the children on this rock....sence 90% of these rotten kids are just copies of their rotten parents and they are also victims of a world that can be very cruel, uncaring or cold when you don't 'FIT IN' or if that child is having serious problems at home.......sad........home should be a place of peace, love and understanding....not a place of abuse, abandonment or even the opposite a spoiled can be just as ugly as abused...in the end the results are similar. 

Sad indeed....very sad.

WE should NOT have to pay the price for what others have failed miserably to do....raise families or just be decent people.


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## frankenstyrene (Oct 5, 2006)

JGG1701 said:


> Is this the Super Glue brand that is marked "all purpose"?


It's GE brand PR54, yellow tube. Tried some out - took it a few more seconds to "grab" but I guess that's the point of a gel CA. The way I've been going thru Wally's black&yellow, I'm gonna buy 'em out this weekend.


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## frankenstyrene (Oct 5, 2006)

nx-o1troubles said:


> How would I even sniff that stuff with out getting paint all over my face and clothes and everything around me? I mean, there isnt any odor unless you spray...IDIOTS....


True, but the way it's done - so I'm told - is to spray whatever it is (paint, carb cleaner, Pam) into a bag, THEN inhale it...hence the term "huff." I'm a teacher so I'm sorry to say I'm required to know this crap.


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## the Dabbler (Feb 17, 2005)

"If you give up freedom for the sake of security you will end up with neither".
-Benjamin Franklin-


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## frankenstyrene (Oct 5, 2006)

flyingfrets said:


> BTW: Ever had 'em pull this one as they're ringing you up? "Your zip code please" or "Home telephone number please."


K-Mart is big on that zip code thing - I always give a falsie so it don't matter. My biggest problem with them is one clerk's line open with 8 customers standing in line. Hate to say it but I give K-Mart three years, tops, merger with Sears be darned. 

Also, and I know you know this, realize that the clerks are required to do these stupid things...often they're on camera so it'd be clear to anyone watching (who knows if you're being watched...Winston Smith to aisle 4!) that a can of thinner goes out w/o an ID being produced. That's the clerk's a*s right there. So I don't get mad at them for this stuff. It ain't them.


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## frankenstyrene (Oct 5, 2006)

fluke said:


> I feel sorry for most of the children on this rock....sence 90% of these rotten kids are just copies of their rotten parents and they are also victims of a world that can be very cruel, uncaring or cold when you don't 'FIT IN' or if that child is having serious problems at home.......sad........home should be a place of peace, love and understanding....not a place of abuse, abandonment or even the opposite a spoiled can be just as ugly as abused...in the end the results are similar.
> 
> Sad indeed....very sad.
> 
> WE should NOT have to pay the price for what others have failed miserably to do....raise families or just be decent people.


As I said elsewhere I'm a teacher so I see this wreckage first-hand. No, we should NOT have to pay for the stupidity of others. But we're now living in a quasi-socialist society so pay up.

If anyone here has a TARDIS, I'll trade you my entire collection and 2 nifty new airbrushes in exchange for a one-way trip to Portage, Indiana, circa Halloween of '70. Yeah, people were still generally rotten (quoth Sol Roth, google it) even then, but there were certain established codes everyone could count on, like them or not. I miss that.


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## frankenstyrene (Oct 5, 2006)

the Dabbler said:


> "If you give up freedom for the sake of security you will end up with neither".
> -Benjamin Franklin-


Too tired to look it up - was it Washington that said government is like fire?

Man, from CA glue to this, and all politely done! I love this board!


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## the Dabbler (Feb 17, 2005)

Radio Shack was great for that, and your address and phone no.too. After many complaints, including mine, they quit. And Busy Beaver Lumber was printing out your credit card no. on your reciepts, so if you lost it or threw it away anyone could get it. I wrote to the headquarters and the local manager and they stopped that too.
Dissenting Dabbler


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## the Dabbler (Feb 17, 2005)

frankenstyrene said:


> Too tired to look it up - was it Washington that said government is like fire?
> 
> Man, from CA glue to this, and all politely done! I love this board!


Ask Perf. Coffee, he'll have it on file !!


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## F91 (Mar 3, 2002)

Here's a thought- F#$% Wal Mart.


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## terryr (Feb 11, 2001)

I tried to buy some lye, and found it has been banned entirely, because dopers use it to make crystal meth. But the store still had draino, which is the same stuff with blue dye added!
And lye is still available in bulk online!! So here's another stupid rule that does nothing but inconvenience us.


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## flyingfrets (Oct 19, 2001)

frankenstyrene said:


> the clerks are required to do these stupid things...often they're on camera so it'd be clear to anyone watching (who knows if you're being watched...Winston Smith to aisle 4!) that a can of thinner goes out w/o an ID being produced. That's the clerk's a*s right there. So I don't get mad at them for this stuff. It ain't them.


frank,

I really wasn't mad at the kid. I am totally frustrated and aggrivated by a society that necessitates these kind of assinine corporate policies.

Another example of us being conned into willingly signing our freedom away:
EZ-PASS. The public at large was sold a false bill of goods on the pretext of convenience. "BUY EZ-PASS AND NEVER FUMBLE FOR CHANGE AT THE TOLL PLAZA AGAIN! EZ-PASS - NEVER WAIT AT ANOTHER TOLL BOOTH!" 

I had a limousine business for 13 years and I actually fell for that crap. Then I found out that the TLC in New York City was tracking all New Jersey tagged limos in, around and out of the city (trust me...I saw a print-out of everywhere my vehicles had been for 3 consecutive days in December of 1997).

Now I know alot of folks might think, "Well...if you're not doing anything wrong, then there's no problem, right?" Wrong. It's an invasion of your privacy and your right to travel freely. Granted, this was motivated by money (the TLC wanted all NJ limo operators to pay fees to do business in the city), but the fact is the technology exists and *HAS* been used to track commercial vehicles. How would you know if they were keeping tabs on Mr. & Mrs. John Q. Citizen?

We should know better, but we're signing our lives away without reading the fine print or thinking it all the way through.


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## F91 (Mar 3, 2002)

I'd like to point out that Wal Mart is probably the corporate leader when it comes to stupid corporate policies. Don't shop there and let them eat cake.


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## frankenstyrene (Oct 5, 2006)

flyingfrets said:


> We should know better, but we're signing our lives away without reading the fine print or thinking it all the way through.


I agree, but that's exactly what we can expect from living in a constitutional republic that's rapidly morphing into a democracy (yes, there's a difference, for those who are wondering...all the difference in the world). I'll stop now - I've caused too many threads to be locked here and elsewhere.


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## frankenstyrene (Oct 5, 2006)

Incidentally, the reason I started this thread wasn't for the philosophical issues related (tho I'm down with all of them) but b/c I cannot believe anyone could get ANY kind of high from CA. Unless you consider burning eyes a high.


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## F91 (Mar 3, 2002)

frank, pm'ed you. I'm very curious....


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## the Dabbler (Feb 17, 2005)

frankenstyrene said:


> Incidentally, the reason I started this thread wasn't for the philosophical issues related (tho I'm down with all of them) but b/c I cannot believe anyone could get ANY kind of high from CA. Unless you consider burning eyes a high.


Well there's the thrill of pulling your fingers back apart, or the neat heat when you hit it with accelerator!


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## scotpens (Sep 6, 2003)

*Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue!*



flyingfrets said:


> Now I know alot of folks might think, "Well...if you're not doing anything wrong, then there's no problem, right?"


The classic line used by those who would deprive us of freedom in the name of safety and security. "Those who have nothing to hide have nothing to fear."

In a free society, _everyone_ has something to hide.

Except me and my monkey.


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## the Dabbler (Feb 17, 2005)

You have a Minkey ??


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## digger1 (May 6, 2007)

heh. I use my goatee as my ID. All the grays in it, I look almost as old as Griff.


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## Roland (Feb 4, 1999)

rat salad said:


> Haven't kids been huffing glue since the 1960's?


Yes, apparently, there were some kids who were apparently sniffing glue in the 1960's... I remember watching an instructional video on the dangers of drug abuse in 1974. One of the forms of drug abuse covered was sniffing model glue. There was a scene with a kid passed out with his head lying on a table and an open tube of toxic model glue. 

I always wondered why someone would sniff model glue on purpose to get "high" when the stuff was obviously poisonous. It never occured to me, or any of my model building friends, to sniff glue, or any other toxic chemical on purpose to get high. I didn't think that there was any kid that was actually dumb enough to try this. But, evidently, there have always been kids out there foolish enough that want to try to sniff toxic chemicals.


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## Griffworks (Jun 24, 2002)

I don't know why everyone is getting in such a huff over this (no pun intended). It takes you how many extra seconds of your life to pull your I.D. out of your wallet? Heck, I've almost always already got the wallet out, so it takes me a grand total of maybe 8 seconds to pull it out, show it so they can see my DOB and then put it back. 

Wow...

And to answer your question, *NX-01troubles*, kids spray the paint in to a ziploc baggy or something else along those lines and then huff it. The rules of many places these days stem from LAWS that local government has established in an effort to make it harder for kids to kill brain cells. To my thinking it's not such a big deal to take a few extra seconds out of my life if it'll possibly help to save someone elses....


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## F91 (Mar 3, 2002)

Jeffery- I bet you that it's not a reaction to local laws but a corporate rule for a few companies. Sure, some places have laws to limit tagging , but who in the WORLD HUFFS CA?


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## Prince of Styrene II (Feb 28, 2000)

It happened to me once at Wally World. Didn't suprise me too much. She took one look at me & said, "Yea, you're over 18". :lol:



Now waitaminute..... :freak:


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## scotpens (Sep 6, 2003)

F91 said:


> . . . who in the WORLD HUFFS CA?


Well, you never know what stupid stunts kids will pull. I once saw a sign at a TV studio that was something like this:[IMG-LEFT]http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/attachment.php?attachmentid=43476&stc=1[/IMG-LEFT]











Guess the youngsters will smoke anything these days!


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

Griffworks said:


> I don't know why everyone is getting in such a huff over this (no pun intended). It takes you how many extra seconds of your life to pull your I.D. out of your wallet? Heck, I've almost always already got the wallet out, so it takes me a grand total of maybe 8 seconds to pull it out, show it so they can see my DOB and then put it back.
> 
> Wow...
> 
> And to answer your question, *NX-01troubles*, kids spray the paint in to a ziploc baggy or something else along those lines and then huff it. The rules of many places these days stem from LAWS that local government has established in an effort to make it harder for kids to kill brain cells. To my thinking it's not such a big deal to take a few extra seconds out of my life if it'll possibly help to save someone elses....




I have a big problem with the whole idea of producing id to buy a product.

It comes from 15 years of working for the telemarketing industry and seeing the way companies glom onto and use the information you give them.

Here in Arizona when your "carded" by Walmart they swipe your drivers license throught the regester to read the bar code on the back......
I've been told it's to verify the birthdate, "to unlock the regester so they could continue the sale", and the best reason "to prove we asked to see your id!"

Every time they swipe the id you give them your name, address, date of birth, a digital photo of you, your driveing record, social security number, and any driving restrictions on your license.

Hmmm....Just the information that marketing companies want.

Ask yourself (the group) why am I being carded for stuff if I "look under 40 years old" when the law has a sale age of 18, or 21!

I can understand and share the if it saves a life feeling, but there is an evil dark side to the good! 







And don't get me started about Walmarts "need" to protect me from movie scenes, or music that they feel are bad!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## flyingfrets (Oct 19, 2001)

Griffworks said:


> it takes me a grand total of maybe 8 seconds to pull it out, show it so they can see my DOB and then put it back.
> QUOTE]
> 
> Okay, I could see the point if my 12 year old son went in looking to buy some of this toxic stuff, but if you are *obviously* well past 18 or 21 or whatever arbitrary age is now considered adulthood, I can't help but ask, "What exactly are you looking for by carding me when you can plainly see that I am in fact of age to purchase the item in question?"
> ...


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## fluke (Feb 27, 2001)

As far as I'm concerned they can listen to my phone calls, dig through my garbage or what ever....they will be pretty bored and disappointed.

BUT! Like Nazi Germany in the 30's and 40's ....If a time comes where we can not say something like that Bush guy really bites the big one without being grabbed in the middle of the night and beat to a pulp or put in a re-education camp....well its time to bare arms......or was that give arms to bears?

Yep...We live in a pretty darn cool place but I know many people from other countries who say that its sad that so many Americans do not excersize or rights, abuse them, complain about that things that we can easily change and do not appreciate what we really have...and I have to agree with them.

Freedom can be easily misused when our leadership stinks and people have lost touch with the basics laws of peace, understanding and just plain common sence....so freedom without good nature or intentions is like a loaded gun in the hands of a mad man.


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## flyingfrets (Oct 19, 2001)

Wasn't electing Bush *putting *a loaded gun in the hands of a mad man?!!?


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## nx-o1troubles (Jul 20, 2006)

Well whats to prevent someone who IS over 18 from sniffing? Apparently if you are 18 its suddenly okay? And really, if i was insane enough to sniff the stuff, dont you think I would be insane enough to just slip the tube in my pocket and walk out? And when my mom is standing next to me, why do you need I.D.? anyone who has a teenage kid has to be over 18. and people on drugs will do anything. so what if some one over 18 buys glue, they can sniff it anyway. or they will make something or find other ways to get high, so why be such a pain in the butt about selling products that really arent that harmful. anything that isnt used properly can be harmful...what next, i cant buy markers cuz people like to get high on those? or i cant buy a plastic mallet, or scissors, or anything for that matter?


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## fluke (Feb 27, 2001)

:lol: Bears, Monkeys, lawyers OH MY!


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## Bruce Bishop (Jan 17, 1999)

People have been deliberately breathing in chemical fumes to get high and I don't even know when it started to be considered a problem in our own 'modern' age. 

Way back in 1980 I learned that my girlfriend (at that time) would breathe in paint fumes and she would really be crazy while under the effects of that. We were both in our late 20's then. 

I don't know how long she had been doing this. She would literally seem insane while under the influence, and have many wildly uncontrolled mood swings. When we would find her, she had paint smears all over her hands and face. She was as bad with the huffing as any hard-core drug addict. The weird thing is that she seemed normal the rest of the time, and we never had any idea when she was about to go off on the paint sniffing. 

It is a horrible, upsetting and frightening situation for anyone who cares about a person doing this.

I had no idea that people were doing such a stupid and ridiculous thing. While it can cause noticeable brain damage and even death, apparently it doesn't always do so.

I myself don't think that those of us who do not engage in these things should be punished for other's stupidity when we need a can of spray paint for a lawn chair or model kit.

People who are going to do bad things are going to do them no matter what efforts are made to control them.


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## flyingfrets (Oct 19, 2001)

Bruce Bishop said:


> People who are going to do bad things are going to do them no matter what efforts are made to control them.


That is absolutely the truth, and the efforts made on their behalf to save them from themselves is impinging on everyone else's lives.

What was the old adage?...

"The road to Hell is paved with good intention"


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## Griffworks (Jun 24, 2002)

swhite228 said:


> I have a big problem with the whole idea of producing id to buy a product.
> 
> It comes from 15 years of working for the telemarketing industry and seeing the way companies glom onto and use the information you give them.
> 
> ...


Hmmm... They don't run your DL here in Arkansas. Just check it. Most of the time the cashier has seen me come thru enough to know that I'm old enough, to they don't card me. 

I'd also never given any thought to the marketing aspects of such an act. Mostly 'cause they don't swipte your I.D. at the local WallyWorlds here. 


> And don't get me started about Walmarts "need" to protect me from movie scenes, or music that they feel are bad!!!!!!!!!!!!!


?  





flyingfrets said:


> Okay, I could see the point if my 12 year old son went in looking to buy some of this toxic stuff, but if you are *obviously* well past 18 or 21 or whatever arbitrary age is now considered adulthood, I can't help but ask, "What exactly are you looking for by carding me when you can plainly see that I am in fact of age to purchase the item in question?"


I understand what you're sayin' and agree up to a point. When you're obviously of age, is it really necessary? 

However, I guess I don't have a problem 'cause the cashiers are just following whatever the company policy is - which may or may not be because of local laws. Why give them a hard time or make their job's harder just 'cause they're doing said job so that they don't get fired. It's the same as businesses which _always card you_ when you're purchasing alcohol or tobaco products - you know, those places w/the sign that says "I'd card my own grandmother" or some such. They're just enforcing that aspect of the law 'cause they can receive a pretty hefty fine if they don't. I have no clue about why most places like really WallyWorld do it, but figure it might be for a similar reason.



> I refuse to show my drivers' license to anyone but a police officer and likewise do not furnish my S.S. number, address or phone number to make any kind of purchase.
> 
> It's not a question of the inconvenience of having to flash my ID...it's a matter of not believing the inane excuse for asking for it in the first place.
> 
> I'm sorry it sounds cruel, but if there are people who are actually stupid enough to huff this stuff, then I regard the outcome as survival of the fitest.


And more often than not I agree w/you, especially since there are some really stupid people that prove Darwin's Theory isn't just a good idea, but should be enforced. 

However, young kids sometimes give in too easily to peer pressure. I'm talkin' mostly under the age of 14 to 16 Been there, done that - tho I never huffed gas, paint or CA.


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## flyingfrets (Oct 19, 2001)

Griff,

It's funny you mention the frame of reference issue (they don't scan your ID in your area) because where I live, underage drinking/smoking is *THE* big deal and I do *not* get carded for alcohol or tobacco. Nor am I asked for ID when I buy pesticides, fertilizer, automotive paint and countless other things that are hazardous if mishandled or misused.

Certainly after Oklahoma City, I could understand being IDed for fertilizer, but they don't bother me about it (true, I'm not buying truckloads of it either  ) so it's not state law or some half-baked local ordinance that I *need* to be carded.

That's why I don't buy these moronic corporate policies and the lame excuses they give for them. They have their own agenda and I refuse to feed into it in the name of my "safety."

I expect to be asked for ID when purchasing a firearm, not a box of Actifed or a tube of glue...


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## frankenstyrene (Oct 5, 2006)

Not that anybody cares but since it's kinda come up, I happen to be a hyperconservative with various libertarian leanings...50 years ago I would have been called "liberal" (meant something totally different back then than what it's come to mean now..whole other topic for a whole other board, I know). 

Anyhoo, I mention it only to say that I have the very same problems with all these privacy issues that you guys do. That's the libertarian in me. 

At the same time, I agree with Griff that it's no big deal to produce ID to buy acetone when, in my case, they're already asking for my ID when I use credit card to pay (because I wrote that on the back of the cards, along with signature). It's THEIR rules (the store's rules) whether or not it's backed by state or local regs. That is THEIR right to impose whatever policies they see fit because it's THEIR store and, yes, I can choose to take my business elsewhere if it hacks me off enough. That's the conservative side of me talking.

But just one thought there - and be honest, guys - at what point does that really do you any good in this day and age? How many of us could really, truly live off the radar to the extent we'd feel comfortable that our privacy on what we buy is intact? I don't think it is possible anymore, in many areas anyway. I'm not a defeatist but, seriously, the whole world is sliding the direction of top-down, nanny-state control. I hate it as much as any of you, and more than some of you I suspect. But is there really anything more that can be done about it? Me and another member are about to discuss this privately but I'm sad to say my answer is "no." Because too many STUPID, IRRESPONSIBLE, LAZY, or/and FRIGHTENED people don't value their liberties enough to actually be responsible for them, the way the Founders of this nation intended. To them, the idea of being told WHAT to do EVERY STEP OF THE WAY is appealing. And it appears to me that they're in the majority. That means having to produce ID to buy CA is nothing compared to what will probably come down the pike before most of us are dead. 

I'm not a pessimist by nature, but I am a realist. And trends repeat themselves in history because human nature does NOT change, ever. This has all happened before, and it'll happen again. So enjoy modeling while you can...it'll be a matter of time before some nutcases force government to outlaw recreational use of styrene-related products because of the hormone analogues present in hydrocarbon plastics. Wait and see! 

In the meantime, grab your preferred beverage, crack that cellophane and fire up those airbrushes!!! :hat:


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## frankenstyrene (Oct 5, 2006)

Bruce Bishop said:


> People who are going to do bad things are going to do them no matter what efforts are made to control them.


Yep, that's just it. Problem is, once upon a time you were left to suffer the results of your own stupidity, and you served as a life lesson and warning to others. 

NOW, the many are made to pay - in one way or another - for the stupidity of the few. That is not a country I care to live in, but even with all our problems, I cannot look at a map of the world an pick a better one (no offense to anyone outside the continental 49 or Hawaii, love you long time!).


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## the Dabbler (Feb 17, 2005)

Uh oh, it's starting to sound political, I see a lock coming on.


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## Scott Hasty (Jul 10, 2003)

frankenstyrene said:


> Yep, that's just it. Problem is, once upon a time you were left to suffer the results of your own stupidity, and you served as a life lesson and warning to others.
> 
> NOW, the many are made to pay - in one way or another - for the stupidity of the few. That is not a country I care to live in, but even with all our problems, I cannot look at a map of the world an pick a better one (no offense to anyone outside the continental 49 or Hawaii, love you long time!).


I KNEW you sounded like a Boortz fan!!

As far as being plugged in and living in the Nanny State, go see Live Free or Die Hard. If you don't walk away from that creeped out, you are a true head in the sander (think beach or power tool, both fit here)!

Scottie


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## the Dabbler (Feb 17, 2005)

Then of course there's the tie-in litigation factor. Whatever dumb thing I do someone else has to pay. So-called "gun control" comes to mind, sue the maker if some numbskull mis-uses or abuses a product. Or tobacco ?? My 3 pack-a-day
habit won't make them outlaw cigarettes as long as someone ( read: Government) makes big bucks from it. Just sue the maker.


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