# A Correspondence with Lifelike



## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

Hi Guys,
I got around to writing a long e-mail to Walthers about a couple issues, the most pressing of which was my dissappointment with getting cars in a set other than those pictured on the box. I want to share my e-mail and the response I received with those who are interested.

While I did receive a timely response, you will note it is quite short and there is no assistance offered by Walthers. They seem to lean heavily on the fact they put the disclaimer "componets may differ..." on each set. Pretty lame excuse in my book.

However, I will see if I can continue the dialog and maybe get some kind of satisfactory resolution. I had hoped for better.


MY E-MAIL...

Dear Sir or Madam,
I have been buying and collecting Lifelike HO electric slot cars and sets since you started producing them in the 1990s. In my collection I have nearly every car produced, most of them at least twice. In the last 15 years, I have purchased many, many thousands of dollars worth of Lifelike race cars and sets. I have well over 1,000 Lifelike cars and uncounted pieces of track.

Yet I still get disappointed, and actually quite upset, when I buy a Lifelike race set and find that the cars included in the set do not match the cars shown on the box. Such an event happened to me again this weekend.

After searching for over a year to find a Lifelike vendor selling the #433-9006 Speedway Showdown set, I finally located one being sold by a vendor this weekend at the Greenberg train show. This set contained a version of the CAT #22 car which is only available in set #433-9006, therefore it was something I very much wanted for my collection. After purchasing the set and taking it home, I discovered that Lifelike had again replaced the set only car (shown clearly on the box cover) with a common car available as a single. This made my purchase of the set useless. I spent a lot of money to buy a set needing only the one car, and now I was stuck with a purchase I did not, and should not, have needed to make.

While Lifelike deserves much credit and appreciation for breathing some much needed life into our hobby, the marketing of the product can use much refinement. First is the issue of not packing the sets with the cars clearly indicated on the box. The decision to purchase one set over another is based solely on the cars contained within the set; otherwise, why market so many different sets with the same track configuration? When Lifelike does not include the exact cars which are pictured, what is the point of showing any cars at all?

Secondly, Lifelike reuses the same part numbers for different products. When a product is changed from one year to the next, Lifelike does not change the part number. Therefore, not only do purchasers/collectors of your product not know that a new product is available, your vendors don't know either. I do not order Lifelike products online simply because I never know if I am getting the version of the product I seek. I have ordered online Lifelike products before based on the pictures shown, yet received a different product and needed to return it. While the part number was correct, the product was different.

And thirdly, Lifelike does a disservice to both itself and its customers by not making every car available either as a packaged single or as part of a twinpack. There are many of us who like to collect these cars, yet we never know exactly what cars Lifelike has produced in any given year. Lifelike has the practice of taking a unique car and only inserting it into a set. Not only does this cause someone to buy a complete set just to get a car, but it also hides new cars from the very people who want to buy it.

While that may have short term gains for Lifelike (a set verses a single car), I can assure you that it costs Lifelike far more in sales (and good will) because there are a lot more people who will pass on the set but would have bought the car(s). It takes a network of hobbiests to determine the Lifelike slot car lineup for any given year; the catalog is insufficient. Customers (like myself) need someone willing to buy a set and look at the cars before passing on the word that the cars are either unique or previously available. 2007 was an especially difficult year to determine the product lineup.

My hope is that someone will address the issues I've raised with the marketing area. The slot car community may not be huge, but it is filled with very enthusiastic participants. As hobbiests, we try to encourage others, especially the young, to get involved with this great pastime. We need and welcome all the cooperation we can get from the manufacturers. Slot car racing does not have to be a once a year (Christmas) marketing gimmick. If promoted correctly, this hobby has the potential to grow even larger than the train hobby.

You get one shot at making an impression on a youngster. Do it correctly, and you can hook him on this hobby for life. Do it wrong, and that set he got for Christmas ends up in the trash by January.

I also hope you can give me some relief on my purchase of the 433-9006 set. As I said, I have no use for the set as it was packaged. I could have purchased the two cars within the set for far less than the cost of an entire raceset. Like everyone else, I want to get what I paid for.

Thank you for your time and I look forward to any further correspondance.


THE REPLY....

Joe,

I agree with you on many points. The hobby could be much larger if certain
concerns were addressed. 

Regarding the discrepancy with the car; we purchased Life Like three years
ago and many of the sets currently on the market were either produced or
designed (including art work) prior to our buy out. There is also a
disclaimer on the box that states "components may vary from those shown".
Due to NASCAR licensing agreements things can change at a moments notice.
This particular car is no longer available.


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## slotcarman12078 (Oct 3, 2008)

Well, at least it wasn't a generic form letter!!! Letting them know the problem exists is a great start, and if any one company could rectify the problem, Walthers would be tops on the list.. I'm constantly on the bay, and 4 eyes are better than two when it comes to searching for something.. I'd be happy to assist you in your search!!:thumbsup: IS this the car you're looking for???

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250324692274&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT&viewitem

UtherJoe


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

*Eat my Shorts!*

"Components may vary from those shown" !!!!

So everything I need to know about Life Like I learned at some bar around 2:00am in my mispent youth? 

Nice disclaimer! It matches up very well with the old "blame it on some one who is not there" schtick. Too bad as a consumer ya couldnt just hand them the payment with the same attitude...A crumpled wad of bills...then say...er yeah...."Contents may vary"

At best their response is perhaps one step above common junkmail....I'd rate it a 2 in the lip service department. AKA: Here's the absolute least we can do for you and still claim that we attempted to address your concerns. Have a nice day. 

C'mon Joe! Telling what's in the box doesnt help yer sales of pus green Avantis, or sand van lame throwers. It's just another spin on "random case roulette". 

Yer not supposed to know til the check is cashed!


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## fordcowboy (Dec 27, 1999)

so what car are you looking for?charger,dodge,interpid, mip or loose? i will try and help.


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## GoodwrenchIntim (Feb 22, 2005)

the #22 cat intrepid??????? If its this car minus the from sponcer decals I have it


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## Hilltop Raceway (Feb 12, 2006)

I believe it's this one. The Cat car has the tear drop stripe down the front, came in some sets...RM


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

Hilltop,
The box you show is exactly the set I bought and the CAT Charger I have been trying to find. The car does exist, just apparently not in all sets.

Also, I checked the link supplied earlier by Uherjoe. That is indeed the set. But how do you know what's in it? Not about to drop $70+ dollars on a hunch.

If you thought the first reply I got from Lifelike was lame, let me show you the next pair of e-mails which we exchanged. Then judge for yourself the customer support offered by Walthers. I wish I knew some way to get to someone higher in the organization. For a company not to try to correct this problem in some way shows very poor customer relations and, in fact, a complete disreguard for its customers.


MY FOLLOW-UP E-MAIL:

Hi Randy,
Thank you for replying quickly.
Unfortunately, your response doesn't indicate that Walthers is willing to
correct the issue I have with set 433-9006. I would never have bought that
set if I knew the contents; there are still a couple 2008 Lifelike sets I
would have purchased instead. I was hoping that some solution would be
offered so that my money wasn't wasted through no fault of my own.
At some point, despite the disclaimer, Walthers must take responsibility
for the contents of its products, including those purchased from Lifelike.
It must accept the good with the bad. Changing some small componets in a
set is fine. Replacing cars should be unacceptable; the cars are what
prompts the sale.
I still hope some remedy will be offered.

Thanks...Joe


REPLY FROM WALTHERS:

Joe,

Walthers is operating well within the parameters of customer service and
product description as thoroughly explained by the disclaimer on the
package. You perhaps should have returned the set to the original point of
purchase. If you are really interested in the #22 CAT car it is currently
available on Ebay. 

Randy


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## tjd241 (Jan 25, 2004)

*I'm thinking bacon...*

Every package can be turned over where you are able to "View Representative Slice". Somebody mentioned either here or elsewhere, that a little window that shows the cars is a viable solution. This might help people who are after "set only" cars. I remember when Hotwheels came out in the late sixties. The fist set I got was just the basic one. The car inside was not the one pictured on the box. I was thrilled to get the set, but disappointed the package depicted one of the cooler cars. nd


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

Wow.


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

tjd241 said:


> Every package can be turned over where you are able to "View Representative Slice". Somebody mentioned either here or elsewhere, that a little window that shows the cars is a viable solution. nd


 That would be an almost perfect solution and certainly a step in the right direction. If buying the set in person, you would see the cars. However, if the manufacturer does not always put the same cars into the same (part numbered) set, how would you know what you are getting if you ordered online, even if you saw a picture? You might not get exactly the set you ordered.

Here was what is probably my final respose:

Hi Randy,
I have to say I am very disappointed in the position you have taken. The vendor will not take the set back as there is technically nothing wrong with it. Plus, the vendor is located over 100 miles from my home; only the location of the train show made the transaction possible.
And although I can locate the set, why would I buy it if I don't know what's inside? Especially when I can't look at it (as with eBay)? Spend another $70+ in the hopes the set contains the car shown? That would be foolish.
As I said, I have bought well over 1,000 Lifelike cars and spent thousands and thousands of dollars. I have one of the most extensive collections of Lifelike cars in the hobby and I am often the source others come to for questions on Lifelike. While I appreciate the quick responses, the customer service I am receiving does not reflect well on your organization.
For while Walthers may be operating well within the parameters of customer service and product description, it is not following the spirit of customer service. Hiding behind a disclaimer is simply not good for business.

Joe


Joe


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## tjd241 (Jan 25, 2004)

*Back to bacon...*

Well Joe... Like I said... It "might" help. If buying online you could always ask the seller to tell you what car the set has. Might separate the men from the boys in the customer service arena for us buyers too. As it stands right now, without a window it's not like they can or even should open a sealed box for you. However, if I was a seller, and I wanted this buyer to come back and buy again... and all I had to do to make the sale was to peek through a little window and tell him what I have?? In this economy... you better believe I'd walk out to the warehouse and take a peak for him. No window and you have the same old _"Pig In A Poke"_. nd


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## rudykizuty (Aug 16, 2007)

Grandcheapskate said:


> REPLY FROM WALTHERS:
> 
> Joe,
> 
> ...


BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

TWO THUMBS DOWN.


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## neorules (Oct 20, 2006)

Joe---- Pm me with your address and phone. I have connections at Walthers from the LL challenge last year. I will make sure that this will be resolved to YOUR SATISFACTION. Walthers has been one of the best companies I have ever seen for customer relations. This is not typical of them. If you want to call me, I will be sending you my phone number, or if you prefer, send me yours and I will call you and make sure this is taken care of.


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## 1976Cordoba (Sep 20, 2000)

Walthers is a few miles from my house . . . maybe I should apply for a position in the slot car category. :thumbsup:


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## slotrod (May 21, 2007)

The only Dodge that Life-Like makes in the Charger (other than COT) is this one. I know that the art work for sets are sometimes down years in advance. I think that is why many companies stay away from doing this.:thumbsup:


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## micyou03 (Apr 8, 2003)

Jaghobbies.com has this one, the 2001 version.










He also has the 2003 version listed, but no picture. Here's a link to his LifeLike section.

http://jaghobbies.com/ho_slot_cars/lifelikecars.htm


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## slotrod (May 21, 2007)

The 2003 Dodge Interpid has a red trunk lid on it.


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## roadrner (Jul 21, 1999)

Don't feel too bad. If I recall, Aurora had a similar problem with some of their sets back in the day. I remember some cars were shown on the box art and something totally different was inside. Or if you were lucky, maybe one of the two cars depicted were inside.  rr


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## Hilltop Raceway (Feb 12, 2006)

The teardrop Cat Dodge does exist, I have one loose. I'll get a picture as soon as my camera returns, I hope. You know how kids are!!! Tyco/Mattel done the bacon idea for a Daytona 500 set. The set included the Dewalt and Cheerios cars. It was a great idea, but made it too easy for thiefs, it was too easy to find the cars and to pull em out of the box...That may have killed the idea, along with extra packaging costs...RM


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## slotcarman12078 (Oct 3, 2008)

*I have another potential solution...*

It might even have been done already..who knows?? Agreed the "bacon window" would be a good option, barring the theft problem. Having the exact location of the prizes in the cracker jack box does make pilferage easy, especially in this day and age. Due to size and finish constraints, the cars wouldn't be capable of any magnetic security and easily pocketable. 

Changing part numbers for every change of cars might help your car search, but would be an inventory nightmare for Walthers and for any other retailer to keep up with. However, when the cars are revised, a revision code can easily be tagged on the box. The code can be simply printed on rolls of tape, and secured to the side of the box at the factory under the shrinkwrap. Then all it would take is a simple accessible web link listing the revisions with corresponding pictures showing the changed items. 

This solution adds maybe a penny to production costs, making the solution an easy fix. It won't help your present dilemma, but would eliminate future issue's...ummm... issues.. The catalog number/ bar code can stay the same so inventory is easy, and the exact contents easily identifiable for the consumer.. The regular buyer who only cares about the set being complete will mostly ignore the revision tape, and the special interest consumer can easily keep tabs of revisions and make locating them a heck of alot easier.


UtherJoe


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

Hi Guys,
The CAT #22 Charger as pictured on the box art does indeed exist in some 9006 sets. Here is a thread I started quite a while ago which tries to determine the Lifelike 2007 lineup. Within the thread is a picture of this exact CAT #22 which someone was able to locate.

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=194855

The other thing to note is that Walthers changed the picture of the #9038 single CAT #22 during 2007 on its website from the car available in 2006 to the version found in (some) 9006 sets. They actually went out of their way to advertise that the #9038 was a different deco and other websites picked up that picture. When I ordered the car online (from Hobbylinc), I got the older version and was able to return it for a refund.

Here are the various CAT #22 cars produced by Lifelike over the years...

#9006 (set)(2006-2007) Dodge Charger #22
#9038 (2006) Dodge Charger #22
#9053 (2003) Intrepid #22
#9053 (2004) Intrepid #22
#9487 (set) Intrepid #22

Joe


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

slotcarman12078 said:


> Changing part numbers for every change of cars might help your car search, but would be an inventory nightmare for Walthers and for any other retailer to keep up with.
> 
> UtherJoe


 I can't see why changing a part number when you change the product would be a nightmare. They only change products, at most, once a year as far as I can tell. And if I was the manufacturer, I'd want to know when my older stock was all sold out, not mix multiple products together.

It certainly must be a nightmare for vendors trying to order from Lifelike. If the product changes but the part number remains the same, how do you know what you are ordering? Or when something different has been produced?

Thanks...Joe


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## tjettim (Nov 29, 2005)

New part= new part number.Seems simple to me.


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## Slott V (Feb 3, 2005)

Put a turd in a Fanny May candy box and send it to this guy at Walthers. Make your own disclaimer label that says; "components may vary from those shown."

:wave:


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## Hilltop Raceway (Feb 12, 2006)

*Chargers*

I think there were 5, could be more. The Cat Intrepid in the pack is a lighter shade of yellow. RM


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## PD2 (Feb 27, 2003)

tjettim said:


> New part= new part number.Seems simple to me.


Being that I work for a company that produces hardware products with model and part numbers in which the component of these products change from time, makes it an interesting task for us to determine which unit has which components. Right now, my company still labels the new products with the different components the same as the old products sitting in our distributors that have the old components.

My recent suggestion was to have the factory/logistics keep the model/part numbers the same, but begin tracking the stock with a simple version number, like "ver.12.08" that would tell us that the same unit was produced with the December 2008 component specs. This way accounting and inventory management stays the same at the core, but you now have a way to track our stock of units with varying components by the production date.

This might work for these guys too and keep the product number consistent. Just a thought. But I did want to add this thought as it appears that MANY companies that have a factory that produce units of something, all do similar things and it appears that much of it has to do with the way accounting can track the inventory and manage it.

PD2:thumbsup:


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## tjettim (Nov 29, 2005)

I am glad I don't own an automobile made by lifelike.
It is hard enough getting the right parts for my Saturn.


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## 2.8powerranger (Dec 13, 2004)

I understand the deal with being disappointed about the car content of the boxes.But i remeber getting my afx sets back in the 70s only to get a ply gtx and a nomad or a datsun 51 and a superbird.they rarely had the cars that were on the box.could you imagine if the sets all contained the cars on the front,,,how many different boxes would be needed.and how hard it would be to get certain sets.or dealers pulling the cars out and subbing them out.or how many of a few cars would be produced.it makes more buisness sence to be random.now a dukes set,needs to be exact or an off road set needs to have the right stuff ,but a nascar set ,,,its easier to have random cars ,,but make all cars available separatley.just my 2 cents
matt


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## valongi (Dec 23, 2007)

Good point about the cover art. My father was a graphic artist, and his core business was artwork for product packaging. The logistics and cost of what is being discussed here (matching pictures to the included cars) would be prohibitive from a cost of manufacturing / stocking / sales perspective. Nightmarish, and not worth it for the company. The printing costs for multiple packages just wouldn't make sense for them.

On the other hand, much of you are collectors, and the frustration is completely understandable. Given that much of the sales nowadays are internet-driven, it takes away the convenient opportunity to bring the box back for a return 

There certainly needs to be some alternative way for LL (and all manufacturers) to distribute the cars, and certainly numbering is an issue as it seems. Easy problems to solve, you'd think....


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## GoodwrenchIntim (Feb 22, 2005)

scaleauto has LL on sale for you LL fans, half the price jaghobbies has them for


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## Tycoarm (Jan 7, 2006)

An easy solution would be to do this,

Set contains the cars pictured
Champ #3 Forsythe SG+ / Super G+ CHAMP #9 RuSport
















If memory serves me right I think Aurora/AFX did this on some of their sets.


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## valongi (Dec 23, 2007)

How about designing the package with generic images of the cars on the track, and having an exposed area of the package where the cars are visible through a bubble pack. This way there is no mystery at all.

Unfortunately, this doesn't solve any problems for internet orders  There'd need to be individual product coding on sets that contain different cars. Combination of part numbers (the track itself), with the variable being the cars. I.E.:

part / model: 12345-6789

The track is 12345, the car combination is 6789.


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## aurora1 (Oct 6, 2008)

How about stickers stuck on the box end with the cars contained in that particular set.


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

Hilltop Raceway said:


> I think there were 5, could be more. The Cat Intrepid in the pack is a lighter shade of yellow. RM


Hilltop,
I don't have my Lifelike cars here at the moment, so I can't compare the 5 cars you've shown to the 4 I have. 

Do those five cars you show correspond to the five cars I listed above...

#9006 (set)(2006-2007) Dodge Charger #22
#9038 (2006) Dodge Charger #22
#9053 (2003) Intrepid #22
#9053 (2004) Intrepid #22
#9487 (set) Intrepid #22

I can easily see the loose #9006 car (that image is burned into my mind). I also see what I think is the packaged #9038 and one of the #9053s. I'm guessing the other two loose cars are a #9053 and the set #9487?

Also, thanks to the intervention of one of our members, I believe Lifelike is going to provide me with a resolution to my issue which should be to my satisfaction. So, a big thanks to Bob C. for his help.

Joe


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## slotcarman12078 (Oct 3, 2008)

*Cool beans Joe!!*

Nothing like a story with a happy ending!! Hope this one does it for you!! Good luck!!

UtherJoe


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## rudykizuty (Aug 16, 2007)

Grandcheapskate said:


> Also, thanks to the intervention of one of our members, I believe Lifelike is going to provide me with a resolution to my issue which should be to my satisfaction. So, a big thanks to Bob C. for his help.


Very cool......HT once again proves a valuable resource.


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## eastside johnny (May 13, 2008)

Joe, I just today got word back from my contact at LifeLike and I see that things are getting worked out for you the best that they can. I didn't want to post his contact info on the board but I forwarded a link to this thread to him and let him run with it from there. I guess that he contacted Walthers customer service & you should be getting taken care off. I'm glad that it's working out for you. LifeLike, through many different product managers over the past dozen or so years, has been great in supporting our North Coast H.O. club. It's just a different environment now with Walthers ownership as the slot cars are not their biggest product. They are a great train supplier & I get one of their huge catalogs every other year just because it's a great "leaf through" book. I'm sure things will get better for us slot car guys. 
We will start running the new COT bodies in our LifeLike stock car series when the season starts the first week of January & everyone is excited to race them. We'll see how well the wings hold up!!
Anyhow, I'm glad that I was able to help.


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## resinmonger (Mar 5, 2008)

If this story has a happy ending I will be inclined to add Life-Like to my future slot purchases. Reward good behavior and all that.


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

Randy at Lifelike has called me a couple times and they are going to do something very nice to resolve the situation. Kudos to Lifelike and a big thank you to my fellow members here on the board for their help.

From my brief converstation with Randy, it seems Walthers is right now feeling out where they want to take the slot car business. Up to now, what has been coming out is basically the leftover work done by Lifelike before the buyout.

Walthers, as you probably know, is a big train company. In talking with them, they have two basic categories of trains - the toy trains and the expensive, collector trains. Whether they go this route with slot cars will be one of the interesting things to watch over the next couple years.

The really good part is that I believe they will be listening to those in the hobby and will show up at some of the local races near Milwaukee, like HOPRA.

Joe


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## Hilltop Raceway (Feb 12, 2006)

Maybe you could post an email address for the Lifelike correspondant, and we could all express a word of interest and thanks. Just a thought...RM


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

Grandcheapskate said:


> Randy at Lifelike has called me a couple times and they are going to do something very nice to resolve the situation. Kudos to Lifelike and a big thank you to my fellow members here on the board for their help.
> 
> From my brief converstation with Randy, it seems Walthers is right now feeling out where they want to take the slot car business. Up to now, what has been coming out is basically the leftover work done by Lifelike before the buyout.
> 
> ...


Joe,

I am pleased it worked out, but Randy should of reacted more along those lines initially, rather than give you the brush off.

I really want to believe that Walthers will step up, and be another AFX, but I am sceptical.


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

Hilltop Raceway said:


> Maybe you could post an email address for the Lifelike correspondant, and we could all express a word of interest and thanks. Just a thought...RM


 I'd prefer not to give out Randy's e-mail address. However, I can tell you that if you write to the customer support e-mail address on the Walther's site the message will probably end up with Randy. I get the impression he handles the customer support for slot cars.

Joe


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## rusty7117 (Apr 27, 2008)

Joe - I've had the misfortune of having to deal with Randy at Walthers before. He is the King of double-speak, and customer disatisfaction. I had purchased a new 48 Lowes car on ebay. The car came, and the body had imperfections on the hood. I called customer service expecting a quick resolution (as I did a year before with a Mustang, w/the same imperfections), explaining how I've (also) collected for many years, and have thousands invested. He went out of his way to make the point that they are under no obligation to replace the body, becasue I didn't purchase it directly from Walthers.

I asked him, Are you kidding me?

I explained things from my point of view, that the package was new, and sealed. He went on and on about not being responsible for purchases not made directly from Walthers several times.

Well... he finally agreed to send a new body at no cost.

Two weeks later, I received the older version with a spoiler, not the COT version (which I stressed several times on the phone).

At that point, I just bought another 48 Lowes on ebay, and hoped for the best.

I'm not sure if Lifelike Customer Service even exists!

Randy's tone was one of defiance. Typical customer service of this disposable era we live in today.

Joe, did you ever get your (teardrop) CAT Charger?

Russ


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## T-Jet Racer (Nov 16, 2006)

One very simple solution would be to put a view window so you can see the cars that are included in the set slimply wire them in like Auto World does in the cubes then do a clam pack ,too hard to walk away with so it takes time, a thiefs enemy. It is crazy that they don't update the part #s and as far as a "collectors list" that should be a no brainer I am sure they are well aware that there are more collectors than racers of their product.


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## JordanZ870 (Nov 25, 2004)

I've seen the new AW sets on the shelves at my local hobby store.
I could see the actual cars through a window in the box.
Tom must have been paying attention! :thumbsup:


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## resinmonger (Mar 5, 2008)

*Boxed Set Bowl*

Well folks, here's Slotcarman12078 and Resinmonger to give you a wrap up of today's big game.

Slotcarman12078: Well, the 2009 Boxed Set Bowl certainly exceeded expectations!
Resinmonger: Yes, the odds makers would certainly call this one an upset!

Slotcarman12078: Wathers-Life Like (WLL) really dominated the first half with their release of th 2008 NASCAR COT series of cars while AW fumbled the release of the Super III.
Resinmonger: So it was no suprise that WLL's defense forced AW into errors in the second half. AW looked down for the count when they received delay of game penalties for XTraction R6 and TJet R5.

Slotcarman12078: Well, Russ, this isn't the first time we've seen a team get over confident when they'd built up a big lead.
Resinmonger: Yes, UtherJoe, it looks like WLL simply forgot the fundamentals late in the half when they received the first of many penalties for intentional customer dis-service. You can bet the front office is going to rethink that consulting contract with Dispair.com.

http://www.despair.com/teamworkpart1.html

Slotcarman12078: Res, who would have expected a simple play like the ol' _show the cars in the box through a window_ would have gained so many first downs?
Resinmonger: SCman, WLL seemed to think their patented _make a zillion similar sets with different cars shown on the box art to imply those cars would be in the set when the boxes really contained random cars play_ could not be defended. AW stepped up to prove them wrong.

Slotcarman12078: That left us with a final score of AW-69 and WLL-51.
Resinmonger: I'm not sure I want to be in the winners shoes as they face that crazy Mega-G offense of Coach Wahoo Steve's Mighty Racemasters in two weeks. I'm sure offensive coorinator Lloyd will have some special plays cooked up!
Slotcamaster12078: See you in two weeks, Rez!
Resinmonger: Party on UJoe!

:drunk::hat::freak::dude:


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## slotcarman12078 (Oct 3, 2008)

Well done!!! :thumbsup::thumbsup: The only thing missed was the two 90 day penalties for unprofessional fouls!!! Awesome!!! :thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## resinmonger (Mar 5, 2008)

Those penalties were pretty controversial:


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## slotcarman12078 (Oct 3, 2008)

They coulda filmed that last bit here at my desk!!! ROTFLMAO!!!:thumbsup:


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

rusty7117 said:


> Joe - I've had the misfortune of having to deal with Randy at Walthers before. He is the King of double-speak...





> I'm not sure if Lifelike Customer Service even exists!
> 
> Randy's tone was one of defiance. Typical customer service of this disposable era we live in today.
> 
> ...



Russ,
My experiance did end up with a very satisfying result thanks to the intervention of one of our board members. Once our board member spoke on my behalf, Randy really came through and made things right. Without our man's intervention, I'm sure I would have simply gotten the same response as you.

And I did indeed finally get the body for the teardrop CAT Charger. It came to me thanks to a board member here at HT. Apparently, the teardrop Charger was a 2006 release, not a 2007 release - the box shows a 2006 copyright date. I have put it into my safe deposit box in the bank. LOL.

The teardrop Charger must have been the earlier release of the much more common single car #9038. Only the earliest 9006 sets probably contain the teardrop Charger. Most of the 9006 sets contain the #9038 version, which was released in 2007. I understand that the teardrop Charger is one of the hardest cars to find.

I will be writing to Lifelike with some suggestions, among them the almost no-brainer of allowing the cars to be seen through a window in all new sets. My understanding is that it costs quite a bit to do the box art, which is why LL uses all the boxes it has even if the cars are no longer available.

Since LL only produces a handful of different set configurations, they should just make a few generic box covers which show the layout and allow the window in the box to show the cars. You get rid of the overhead of constantly changing the box art and you eliminate getting surprised by the cars.

Joe


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

The last paragraph makes huge sense, which automatically means it won't happen. I have it on good authority from somebody who would know from personal experience, that product people tend to be very defensive, counter-productively so, when dealing with hobbyists.


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## noddaz (Aug 6, 1999)

*well*



> Since LL only produces a handful of different set configurations, they should just make a few generic box covers which show the layout and allow the window in the box to show the cars. You get rid of the overhead of constantly changing the box art and you eliminate getting surprised by the cars.
> 
> Joe


Changing the box art is cheaper than actually producing something useful to the slotcar hobbist. Which is not the intended target demographic anyway.
But it does make one wonder what would happen if somehow W/LL went upscale and used it's model train knowledge to promote slotcars as a hobby instead of a throw away toy.


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## 1976Cordoba (Sep 20, 2000)

noddaz said:


> . . . But it does make one wonder what would happen if somehow W/LL went upscale and used it's model train knowledge to promote slotcars as a hobby instead of a throw away toy.


No kidding.

You can get everything - everything - under the sun for those trains but nothing but 9" curves, a couple varieties of straightaways, and the same few licensed NASCAR paint jobs every year . . .

I think partnering with Daniel Groulx of Trakmate and Edwin of Tracker 2000 for Life Like-specific products to add those two products to the Walthers catalog would be a simple first step. Then some racing-specific scenery / deco items should be next. Then starting cranking 36" straightaways and big radius turns (think 21" and bigger), with nice 15" adapters to connect to Tyco, Tomy, etc. Cut some deals to the train dealers to incentize them into carrying the stuff in their shops alongside the train items. Have a large Walthers / LL race track at the major train shows / hobby shows / toy shows.

Wishful thinking until Walthers hires me I guess . . . :lol:


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

It is the same basic issue I get when talking to Scalextric. Can they keep they current sales level whist adding to it by re-positioning the product. Mostly they decide not to try.


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## resinmonger (Mar 5, 2008)

Mattel, Walthers and Scalextric all have a corporate mindset which is riskadverse or even riskphobic. This makes one appreciate Racemasters all the more as a small company is will to "bet the farm" so to speak on a new product like the Mega-G. Tomy would still market the same old same old if Wahoo Steve weren't pushing new development. So one team of mavericks is keeping us at 1 and 3 instead of 0 and 4.

Send some love to Wahoo Steve!

Hutts love the Mega-G! :drunk::hat::freak::dude:
Note: Riskphobic is a translation from the Hutt GrrPussPhiedMHENinThreePieceSuitz.


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

All very interesting opinions, but it always sounds so easy and straightforward when it involves other people's money (OPM). I don't think anyone would argue that Walther's primary line of business is model trains. That's what brings home the bacon for Walthers and its employees. The acquisition of Life-Like by Walthers was also driven by consolidation on the model train side of the business, not by a desire for Walthers to dip their toe into the much smaller slot car market. The fact that Walthers did not simply dissolve the Life-Like Racing product line or sell it off to an emerging player like AutoWorld is an indication that they are going to make a go of it. 

Walther's participation at the 2008 HOPRA Nationals, with company representation present for several hours after normal working hours, and in the midst of a crowd of racers who probably do not spend a lot of money on Life-Like products in the first place, shows that they are reaching out to the slot car community in a meaningful way. I am willing to welcome them into the fold and give them an opportunity to join in on a hobby that they are still learning a great deal about, but still have a long way to go. I am very appreciative of Walther's efforts in our hobby and people like *Neorules*, an established, hard core magnet car racer, who have opened their minds and hearts to a hobby products manufacturer like Walthers as they try to learn and grow in a hobby that they still have a lot to learn about. Yes, Walthers does not have the rich legacy in the hobby to fall back onto, they have an adopted product line that they are still trying to figure out the best way to integrate into their product portfolio at a time when competition is up and discretionary income is down. 

When you run a business you have to try and do the right thing for your customers, but customers are not a monolithic group with the same set of needs. There are always going to be some outliers whose needs, while genuine, are so far out there that you cannot always accommodate them while at the same time doing what it takes to keep the bulk of your customer base and your investors happy. That's the reality of it, and using the Internet megaphone as a way to publically broadcast the grievances of a vocal minority is not going to affect change in a meaningful way. I'd be willing to bet that an old school company like Walthers would be much more swayed by meaningful, private correspondence like Neorules has engaged them on, than public ridicule and public publishing of emails intended for private consumption. 

The Golden Rule is still very relevant in the Internet Age.


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## RacerDave (Mar 28, 2006)

Joe, I'm glad to see you got your car. I know it was a long search for you. Dave.


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## slotcarman12078 (Oct 3, 2008)

Agree 100% AFX.. I haven't done any research into Walthers aquisition of lifelike, but I can only assume the real reason for the purchase was for the train part of the deal. The slot car part was an extra. What they do with with slots will be determined by sales. I was quite suprised to see race sets in the last couple of Walthers flyers, but this latest one has nothing.. If sales were disappointing during this past holiday, odds are the remainder of stock will be liquidated and that will be the end of LL slotcars. However, is sales were decent, perhaps some new life will be breathed into the venture. Let's hope the numbers were good!! :thumbsup:


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

In speaking with one of our board members, I was suprised to find that Walters is a relatively small (in terms of gross sales) company. When you look at their catalog and see all the thousands of (train) products, you figure they are much bigger than they are. As a result, there are very (very) few people in the slot car part of their business. 

However, Walthers does appear to be trying to get a grip on this hobby. We can only wish them well and provide helpful information to them when possible, understanding the financial constraints under which they are working. For example, it does not sound (to me) as if they have the financial resources to go wild in producing new track. They will need to first understand what will get them their biggest bang for the buck. The ideas I presented a few posts ago would actually save them money, yet make their product more appealing.

Thanks...Joe


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## krazcustoms (Nov 20, 2003)

If their boxes are such a huge expense, why don't they do what AFX did back in the 70's and have a generic box (with common info printed on sides) and use a big sticker for the front? That way, they could use the same box for several different sets, and when something in the set changes, they are only out some stickers, not whole boxes.


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