# Question On Car Types....



## Nightshade (Jan 15, 2006)

What cars are similar to the XTractions and SG+ cars?

I know SG+'s are pretty fast (I have two), and I have some of the FF cars. I'm wondering what other cars will work on my Tomy track. I don't have brakes set up (and don't even know how brakes work in the slot car world, for that matter) and am wondering what will work ok on my track as it is now. TJets? 440's? SRT's? etc. (i.e. What's available to me without a lot of modifying?)

I would also like to know what bodies can fit on SRT and SG+ chassis too. Not a lot of body types to pick from when it comes to XTraction and SG+, I'm finding.

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Nightshade
Mike


----------



## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

Performance wise, the SG+ and XT are miles apart and there are lots of chassis between (and a few quicker than the SG+).

Sticking to toys first you have Tyco, Tomy, LifeLike, Marchon, Scalextric, Artin, Autoworld/Johnny Lightning - most of whom make more than one chassis.

Then you have the serious stuff from ScaleAuto, Wizzard and Slottech.

I have found most of the chassis types can be put into groups of similar performance but exactly how the groups are made up depends on the type of track you have (ie large, small, open, twisty).

dw


----------



## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

Mike, any slot car other than a few oddballs like Matchbox will work on your track. Montoya1 mentioned most of them, although some brands like Scalextric and Artin are harder to find in North America. The easiest to find hobby grade HO slot cars in North America are Life-Like, Tomy, Mattel (bought out Tyco), AutoWorld, Model Motoring, and vintage Aurora, Tyco (pre-Mattel), Marchon, and Rokar. The easiest to find modern race grade slot cars are Wizzard Storm, BSRT G3, and Slottech ThunderCat T1. The G3 is an improved version of the Tomy SG+ chassis so it can mount any body that fits a SG+. The T1 can mount Tyco/Mattel narrow bodies and Tomy wide bodies using a Tomy clip, if you cut off the built-in lexan body mounting posts. The Storm does not support any off the shelf hardbodies, but BRP makes aftermarket bodies designed to mount on the Storm's (and earlier P3) lexan body mounts. (http://www.bat-jet.com/nascar1.html) Keep in mind that assembled rolling chassis for the Storm and G3 will set you back around $35 and around $83 for the T1. (The disparity is actually not as much as it seems because getting a Storm or G3 to about the same configuration as a RTR T1 will bring the prices much closer together.)

The XTs can fit most bodies designed for the Aurora AFX, Magnatraction, G-Plus w/tabs, and Tomy wide bodies. The Tomy SG+ (and BSRT G3) can also fit open wheeled bodies when the body clip is removed. The Tomy Turbo/SRT also use the AFX mounting system, except for the narrow versions without the molded-in tabs. The narrow Turbo/SRT chassis only fits bodies designed for it alone, it does not even fit the SG+ narrow bodies. Odd. There are a lot of bodies designed to fit the AFX mounting system and most will fit on AFX, Magnatraction, XT, SG+ w/clip, G3 w/clip, Turbo/SRT w/tabs, and G-Plus w/tabs. That's quite a few chassis designed to use the same body mounting system. 

The one caveat is that some bodies assume a certain chassis geometry outside of just the mounting tabs. Early AFX bodies like the Camaro Trans Am and the Porsche 917 only work on AFX, Mag., and XT chassis. Likewise, some bodies like the G-Plus Ferrari Daytona only work on the low profile G-Plus. I've also noticed that the new Tomy PT Cruisers only work on the Turbo/SRT chassis, not even the SG+. Some Aurora and Johnny Lightning (now AutoWorld) bodies won't work on Tomy and BSRT G3 chassis due to interference with the pickup shoe front tabs. The newer chassis require more area in the nose and bodies like the Chevy Nomad don't fit. All you can do is try it and see if it works. All you can do is try it out and see what works and what doesn't. I actually like the look of certain bodies on certain chassis better. For example, the PM/AW Buick Grand National and Dodge Charger bodies have a very aggressive rake when mounted on a Tomy Turbo/SRT chassis. It's a bit of trial and error.

What sort of bodies are you looking for?


----------



## Nightshade (Jan 15, 2006)

Guys,

You sure do know how to dish out the info. Many thanks! I like details like that...it might take me two or three reads to digest it all, but it's there for me to do so.

Based on my three revised track layouts (refer to my thread in track building section), I am doing a "wilderness" road course. Something that pleases my 'diorama' frame of mind, yet allows me to do some racing.

When I want to just goof with the kids, I want to go with street cars like my JL FF Xtractions. I would like to pick up the XT red corvette and anything else like that (e.g. the Dodge RAM, hemi 'Cuda, etc.). I would also like to pick up other bodies of street cars, just didn't know if 440's and T-jet 500's would be ok. 

For 'sponsored' style races, I would like to do something along the Monza style. Not sure where to go for Monza cars....

That brings me to my next question: Where's a few good websites that I can *see* these cars and get reasonable prices?

While I'm here...where can I get a 101 class on how a slot car braking system works....and why I (a home racer who doesn't have any place close to actually compete) would need to wire for brakes? I would like to get a feel for that before actually starting my wiring of the new track...I know it's the wrong place to ask about this....but I am here and thought it would have something to do with the style cars I purchase.

Thanks for the responses! :thumbsup: 

Mike

P.S. Along the line of AfxToo's e-mail, I am wondering what bodies I can put on SG+ and XTraction chassis. Those are the two I have used, so I'm not sure what other chassis are good to use. I did see a thread where AfxToo was talking about putting FF bodies on SG+ or SRT chassis.......THAT really interests me. - M


----------



## Manning (Mar 2, 2004)

Pretty pictures of cars.....

http://members.aol.com/hifisapien/slotcars.htm


Brakes work by shorting out the motor. Have to have special controllers and wiring...... There are a bunch of threads with wiring diagrams.....


----------



## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

A great place to see lots of cars, new and old:

http://www.hoslotcars.com/slotcars.html

:thumbsup:


----------



## Nightshade (Jan 15, 2006)

Manning & SwamperGene,

Thanks for those sites. I looed at them and see a lot of eye candy! :thumbsup: 

I noticed a good number of Monza style bodies from different vendors....so now I'm wondering which of them wouldn't fit a Tomy chassis. 

I understand that the XT chassis is slower than an SG+. I mis-spoke about wanting to put a body on an XT chassis (why go slow?)  ALthough I did hear that an XT chassis is fun if I want to do some sliding around corners! (That true?)

Hope that clears up some of my past rhetoric. 

Mike

P.S. AfxToo....when you talk about narrow chassis and narrow bodies, do you mean open wheel? I'm not interested in an open wheel car unless Danica is sitting in it.....and the Tomy Amerimax car...I'm a manager for Amerimax, hehe.


----------



## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

Dynamic braking takes advantage of the fact that every DC motor is also a DC generator - at the same time. If you spin the motor on your slot car, say by spinning the drive wheels with a rotary tool, and clamp a voltmeter across the pickups you'll measure a voltage proportional to the motor's rpm. When you let off the throttle while your car is moving down the track the same exact thing happens, the wheels are turning the motor and it is acting like a generator. Like most electric motors, how long this generator effect lasts after letting off the throttle depends on the mechanical resistance that the entire "generator" has and the electrical load across the "generator." Things like poorly meshing gears and traction magnets effect the mechanical resistance. Dynamic braking circuits affect the electrical load placed on the motor when it's in a braking situation. The heaviest electrical load occurs with a short circuit across the motor leads. A dead short dynamic brake will stop the motor very quickly. In fact, it may stop more quickly than you would like, possibly locking the rear wheels and causing the car to skid. Variable braking circuits allow you to vary the load that's presented to the motor when it's in a braking situation. 

I hope this explains both how dynamic braking works and sheds some light on why cars with heavy traction magnets often do not require dynamic braking.


----------



## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

As far as I know, the only Tomy bodies that mount directly on the chassis without a body clip are open wheeled cars. The Tomy Turbo/SRT chassis comes in 2 flavors and the narrow version is for open wheeled cars. The same can be said for the Aurora G-Plus - except that someone did make a clip to allow wide bodies to be mounted on a narrow chassis. It works okay, but the G-Plus chassis with the integrated wide body mounting tabs is better (more sturdy and better fit) than using a clip on a narrow chassis.

Tyco/Mattel 440 and 440X2 is a bit of a different story. The original versions of these chassis were only available in narrow form but Tyco did make plenty of non-open wheeled bodies to mount on the narrow chassis. They never did a body clip as far as I know, although other aftermarket vendors like Bud's do make clips to adapt the narrow 440/X2 to AFX mounting. Tyco later came out with a wide version of the 440/X2 chassis, called the "pan chassis" that was only targeting wide body cars. The 440/X2 narrow and pan chassis are quite different from each other outside of the motor box. The narrow chassis uses smaller from wheels and tires and is typically a better racing chassis. I particularly like the earlier Corvettes and stock cars that mount on the narrow chassis. But the pan chassis will mount most of the old TycoPro, CurveHugger, HP7, and HP2 bodies.


----------



## Nightshade (Jan 15, 2006)

> There are a lot of bodies designed to fit the AFX mounting system and most will fit on AFX, Magnatraction, XT, SG+ w/clip, G3 w/clip, Turbo/SRT w/tabs, and G-Plus w/tabs. That's quite a few chassis designed to use the same body mounting system.


So,

I can get any of the Monza bodies (or many another wide body) from different makers and put them on a wide SG+ or Turbo/SRT chassis?

And they may or may not need to use a clip or a mounting tab.....

Am I close?


----------



## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

Pretty much, as long as you don't cross brands that use different mounting schemes. One good souce of wide bodies for the AFX mounting style (AFX original, MT/XT, G-Plus, SG+, and Turbo/SRT) is the Playing Mantis "Thunderjets" pullback cars that have a diecast chassis but a plastic Aurora-AFX-clone body.

The Aurora Monza GT body will mount on the Aurora AFX, Aurora Magnatraction, AutoWorld XT, Aurora G-Plus wide or narrow with clip, Tomy Super G+ with clip, Tomy Turbo/SRT wide, and the BSRT G3. I does tend to rock a little bit on the Tomy and BSRT chassis but it will not rub the tires. It's native chassis are the AFX, Magnatraction/XT, and G-Plus.


----------



## Nightshade (Jan 15, 2006)

How do the 440 and TJet chassis compare to a Turbo/SRT or SG+ chassis? In betwen them and an XT chassis?


----------



## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

The XT is way slower than all the others except the TJet:

TJ
XT
Turbo
440
SG+
LifeLike T
MR1
SRT

That is what the stats at my club throw up anyway...


----------



## TK Solver (Mar 18, 2004)

I have a 4-lane road course with 82 feet of track per lane. I time in all my cars on all four lanes and keep the stats in a spreadsheet. Here are the average times for the chassis I have with various body combinations. The bodies make a difference.

BSRT 440-X2 F1 -- 6.128
SG+ F1 -- 6.554
SRT F1 -- 6.572
LifeLike (T) -- 6.753
SG+ GTP -- 6.759
440-X2 GTP -- 6.924
Marchon GTP -- 6.960
SRT GTP -- 7.238
SRT Muscle -- 7.534 (XT bodies on SRT chassis)
SRT Cobra Daytonas -- 7.556
SG+ Muscle -- 7.661 (XT bodies on SG+ chassis)
Tomy Turbo -- 8.325
HP7 -- 8.869
XT -- 9.862 (ranging from 9.1 to 10.9)
TJets -- 13.437 (ranging from 12 to 16)

The X-Tractions are my favorites because they're so drivable and drive differently in each lane. I have my own sub-class of X-Tractions running Tomy GTP bodies with Tuff Ones silicones on the rear and JL pullback front wheels. They hug the track very well and average down around 9 seconds per lap. And it's so nice to be able to run those winged cars on X-Tractions without fear of breakage like you have with the magnet cars.

The TJets are also very satisfying if you run them with a 90+ Ohm controller.


----------



## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

TK Solver said:


> I have a 4-lane road course with 82 feet of track per lane. I time in all my cars on all four lanes and keep the stats in a spreadsheet. Here are the average times for the chassis I have with various body combinations. The bodies make a difference.
> 
> 
> Marchon GTP -- 6.960


Surely not with a copper motor, I would expect them to be much quicker than that!


----------



## Nightshade (Jan 15, 2006)

Wow...

That's some good info to have. Many thanks! Even with variabilities in track, tires, motors, etc. that helps a newbie out on where to look when it comes to chassis.

When I see SG+ F1 vs. SG+ GTP......can I assume that means narow chassis vs. wide body chassis as AfxToo mentions above?

I also notice both of you mentioning LifeLike T...I assume there are two different LifeLike chassis?

Again, thanks!

Mike


----------



## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

Yes, there are 2 different Life-Like chassis, the M and the T. I vastly prefer the M because it is serviceable, adjustable, and more consistent. The T varies all over the place, some are very fast and some are real dogs. Plus, there's an overall "cheapness" to the T chassis yet they still charge top dollar for the cars that come with it.

I'm a little surprised by the average times that TK posted for the magnet cars. They seem rather high for a track that size. But I'm used to SG+ cars with at least slip-ons in the rear, tweaked endbell, tweaked hangers and shoes, tweaked rear bearing, and everything slammed as much as possible for the particular chassis version. I'd expect low 5s or even high 4s and wouldn't expect to see the SRTs come even close to the SG cars with the same bodies. We run SRTs as a box stock class (slip-ons only) against stock Tyco 440X2s and stock LL's and the Tycos are usually the dominant chassis by a fair margin. For the box stocks, Tycos are very tunable, as are LL Ms to a somewhat lesser degree. I have never really tried to tune a Turbo or SRT other than the shoe tension and ride height so I don't know what their full potential is but they sure are tippy in the corners. The SG+ cars are not allowed in box stock because once properly tuned the rest of the cars wouldn't have a chance. 

I'm not disputing the numbers at all, no doubt that they are reasonable under the conditions with the normal variability of all HO cars right out of the package. When you're running under racing conditions with track marshalls you are much more inclined to find the edge of the envelope when someone else is picking up your wrecks. Plus, you are far less concerned about punishing your equipment when trying to win a race. 

Ed Bianchi used to do some exhaustive instrumented testing of slot cars. It would include both an acceleration run, a skid pad, and a braking test. The driver has to be taken out of the testing equation.

For comparisons sake, superstock G3s, Storms, and T1s are typically in the 3.4-4.2 second range on a typical 4x16 track. An SS has a stock motor and magnets, stock unsanded chassis, optionally independent fronts, silicone-sponge rears, lexan body, optionally different gearing, and optionally silver electricals. It's typically a matter of getting all the right parts tuned just the right way to get an SS car under 4 seconds on a 4x16 track with an average driver. To win a race however means getting those few extra tenths out of the car and the driver. It's those few tenths of a second that make racing so exciting. If the better driver alone accounts 2 tenths of a second difference per lap, or 5 percent on a 4 sec baseline over other drivers, the race is not even going to be close. In a 20 minute race the 5 percent better driver will win by more than 10 laps.


----------



## Nightshade (Jan 15, 2006)

Hmmm, this is probably a question for later....but is there a book on how to tune a slot car? I wouldn't know the first thing TO do, much less HOW to do it, hehe.

I say probably a question for later because I still need to finish my table, then run my three layouts for a while to get a feel for the one to go with....

Which reminds me AfxToo...could you check out my three newest layouts and give me your opinion? The more opinions based on past experiences helps me plan ahead. Others' opinions don't necessarily make me change my mind, but does help fuel the fire and get me thinking. 

Thanks,

Mike


----------



## TK Solver (Mar 18, 2004)

It only takes one treacherous corner to increase lap times. In my case, I have a nearly 360 degree carousel that just can't be taken too quickly and there are a couple other combination 270 degree turns that slow you up.

I'm attaching my track layout. Those of you who like realistic layouts may want to turn away or have an airline bag handy. Each line is the centerline between two lanes. The dotted portions are elevated. The cars go left to right down the long center straight. That's a triple decker overpass in the center. There are lots of medium length straights where you can "get on it" with the XTs and TJets. The track has no 6 inch curves but there are some 9s. It is not wired for braking. The driver stations are at the four corners of the table so the view is good for everyone. Lots of track in a 12x6 area...

Rookies tend to wreck most often at the dogleg (-20,15) and at the ends of the two outside straights. The carousel corner is in the upper right of the diagram. Out of tune TJets may deslot in that area if you take it too quickly.

Those of you who attend the next Rockford slot show (assuming they hold one there again) are welcome to stop by afterward and see what kind of times you can make. I'm just 20 minutes north.


----------



## dlw (Aug 17, 1999)

Nice track. I'm sure running XT's on that is a hoot.


----------



## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

I got dizzy just looking at the picture of it, with nothing moving. I think my lap times on that with my best SS car would be about 30-45 seconds, depending on how long it takes me to recover from passing out. If you put an RO on it you would probably unlock a portal into another dimension from all the spinning and twisting magnetism.


----------



## Nightshade (Jan 15, 2006)

It should be called the Mobius Loop.


----------

