# Four up. Four down. The 18" 1701



## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

I'm consolidating three threads for each of three AMT-005 kits. 
For additional followup, see them for more details here: 
*18" NCC-1371 Underway*
http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=239169
*14" Ptolomy Class*
http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?p=2646059#post2646059
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I began this project by going to FJ's SFTM and scanning and scaling all four starship illustrations to the AMT Connie's 18" length. 

If the AMT kit is genuinely 18", then: 
*Tug:* 14" long x 4.25" high.
*Scout:* ~15 3/16" x 3.75 high
*Hvy Cruiser:* 18" long x ~4 10/16" high
*Dreadnought:* 20" long x 5.33" high

I had thought converting one into a dreadnought might be possible, but it uses an entirely different hull than the hvy cruiser. Only the engines are the same.

PS. Here are all four ships, all three views, all scaled to 18" Connie. 
Image is [email protected]=600kb. Enjoy.
http://www.twinlitworlds.com/modelwerx/graphics/kits/kit102_3805_aristarchus/fjstarships18inch.jpg
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Here is the youtube linkage collected from the other two threads.
*WARNING: 
The following programs depict scenes of monstrous brutality!
DO NOT ATTEMPT THIS AT HOME!
If you want to see how NOT to build this kit, watch these videos.
*​
*NCC-1371 Republic*








*Play All 20 videos in the series:*




*Review the Playlist:* 
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=A0E21C318D936931


*NCC-3805 Aristarchus*








*Play All 9 videos in the series:*




*Review the Playlist:* 
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=E5524DD2C64C109C


*NCC-506 USS Pompeii*








*Play All 10 videos in the series:*




*Review the Playlist:* 
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=04A08612FD961BC3


*NCC-1764 Defiant (posthumous) * 








*Play All 12 videos in the series:*




*Review the Playlist:* 
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=C9DCF961634FB79A

*Top L-R:* *Defiant,* Constitution, K-7
*Republic, Pompeii, Aristarchus*, Excalibur








*Play all 25 of the Group Status Reports*




*Review the Playlist*
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=10CAB360607F2376
Note that these group Status Reports show work not covered in the individual ship logs and as such is supplemental to those.


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

*Defiant 1764*

_Originally Posted: 12-31-2008, 10:06 PM_
This now makes three of these kits underway simultaneously. 

We were let go early today, so I stopped at my local to get some paint. And there they had another 1701, box edition. I was thinking of rounding things off by making a Scout when I got it. Upon getting home and remembering I have a 350 refit aside for Scout-izification, meant that idea was out the window.

Watching the Rem-TOS fx reels a few days ago on youtube, Tholian Web reminded me that I have some glow-paint on hand. Building Defiant would hold some comedic merit, of mild sorts. 

Otherwise, it's: Lexington, Yorktown, Exeter. Intrepid, Farragut, Hood, then the Defiant, Potemkin & Constellation cadavers last as they are the most difficult to do very well. 1701 is holding on the fabled 350Tos and Connie, Excal and Republic are already in service. [EDIT: It's Defiant.]

Regardless, another build begins. Being fresh from these other two WiPs -and the knowledge base here, this one should yield a smooth build w/ only minor brutality incurred and some good insights instilled. 

Theoretically.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

You may can wet sand with very fine sandpaper and then repaint the surface where it orange-peeled.


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

Thanks for the notion, Perfesser. I strongly considered going for the sanding, but with the arthritic factor considered, I try to avoid heavy mass-sanding these days. 

After I made the following updates, I ran the squadron over the orange skin/peel. You'll see that the stbd hull breach on the Republic came back with a vengeance as well. I think I killed that and I may have these kits back up to par tonight. The orange skin/peel dish was a major blow I didn't think I would recover from so quickly. 

"Screwing up so you don't have to"
Tom

*Status Report 1A: Republic and Aristarchus 9.5 min*





*Status Report 1B: Defiant and Closing thoughts 4.5 min*


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## WarpCore Breach (Apr 27, 2005)

Tom, I've been following this thread but not the Youtube links, until your last post! First of all, I'll definitely have to go back and start from the first video.

Secondly, sorry to hear about your painting disaster. It really looks bad, from the lighting you had on it - like great huge cracks! I know it's surface stuff, but still...!  Given all the repairs you have to do with it, I'd almost suggest getting the Easy Off anyway and strip it down, fix the blown seams, etc and paint it up again. At least that's what I'd do.

As it happens, I sanded off the grid from a saucer today on a Destroyer conversion. I used 180 grit wet-n'-dry sandpaper and it only took me maybe 20 minutes to remove it. I have to go over it again with a finer grade to smooth out the saucer still, so maybe another 10-15 minutes for me. I long ago got tired of spending an hour removing that grid so just used heavier grit paper. Seems to have worked all right for me.

I've started my new year by lining up a bunch of the kits - 4 single engine conversions, need to repair both a McDaniel _Endeavor_ and a rebuilt Conny; plus I need to finish up my mostly-resin 18" accurate Conny (except for the warp engines, of course!) plus a really old Aurora-issue Conny that still needs a lot of work. At least I got the primary and secondary hulls back together today, something it hasn't seen in over 20 years. 

Thanks for posting your progress - the Youtube route is something I haven't seen from anyone else! Good luck on your builds! (And I have a Tug conversion waiting in the wings as well!)


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## Guy Schlicter (May 3, 2004)

Enjoyed watching your progress on you tube and the speed at how quickly the Enterprise models are coming along.Keep up the good work and please post more!!Guy S.


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

Thanks guys. Just wanted to quickly comment that I've rewritten the first two posts in light of the consolidation effort. All related youtube can now be found in this thread.


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

*Republic: Pt07 Damage Control 6 min*





The saucer putty will work out. The Stbd breach is now puttied up solid as well. All the other mods mentioned in this vid have been done. Next is sanding all that down again followed by not being stupid about how the paint goes down the next time 

Aristarchus is looking good at the neck, needing some refining, but awful close. The Defiant body needs a sanding to see where that is at. And then there are the four nacelles needing various amounts of this and that. 

Next in line for each is: 
Aristarchus gets cleaned up and the first engine is glued in. Defiant goes to full assembly next and is 'caught up' w/ Republic. Aristarchus then gets the 2nd engine glued on while I take the other two to paint. By the time they are in decals, Arista should be finished w/ assembly and heading for a quick paint. All the fiddly bits for the each should be glued on by then and I'll have to screw some new hooks into the ceiling for a new fleet formation. I will post some pix for that.


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

I had to slow down on these three kits as I gotta concentrate on some job hunting this week. 

But, while touching up another kit last night with some brass mesh, much like Moonwatcher smashing bones, I was struck by a powerful vision. My vision however was of the brass mesh as the pylon 'grills'. 

The mesh in the vid is square @ 1/32 (.75mm). The company (specialshapes.com) also makes diamond grating in addition to the square. .75mm is the smallest aperture they sell and it looks like it's right-on for relative scale. I got the sheet from my local train shop, but it is also on ebay for a similar price. The website itself is not well designed for browsing product. I will look to get a closeup of the mesh on the pylon tonight. It's really something to see and the vid does no justice.

So my two questions are:
Do I need square or diamond? 
Where is there a chart of the Constitution nomenclature?

*REPUBLIC pt 08 Brass! 3 min*


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## Maritain (Jan 16, 2008)

Hey great idea on the brass , looks gneat. I'll have to keep that in mind for future builds.


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

Another status report on all three, concentrating on Republic's repairs. I may have another report as early as tomorrow. Things went well after I shot this vid and I laid down some more paint this morning before work.

*Status Report pt02 6 min*


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## Paulbo (Sep 16, 2004)

Model Man said:


> Do I need square or diamond (mesh)?


Actually, the mesh is neither square or diamond. It's kind of a funky enlongated dimple shape. 

If you have a couple of weeks to wait for that part, I'll have my new upgrade set on the market - it includes the mesh for the pylons, the warp engines, the little "nubbins" on the side of the secondary hull, the "propellers" in the bussard collectors, and even ... a bridge.


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

Ah yes, the dreaded 'nubbins' problem... 

If any of my three are still draggin' their feet in a few weeks, I will go for it Paul! Adding your space pod stuff in there too, you're (eventually) looking at a solid $100 from me alone! 

More likely is that I'll get (yet) another kit specifically for your hangar and nubbins upgrade. Question: If you are including the 'fan blades', are you also throwing clear bussards in the pkg too? Or are they designed to go with the other upgrades out there? Perhaps for the next one, I'll go all-out and build an uber-accurate ship w/ all the upgrade kits out there. I'll save that for the Lexington build. I hope that bridge of yours comes with a high-back chair option! lol :wave:


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## Paulbo (Sep 16, 2004)

Hi MM,

I'm not including the clear bussard domes, but they're designed to work with the three main ones out there: clear cast copies of the original kit parts, the upcoming vacuformed pieces (with resin cylinders), and the Plastruct clear acrylic domes.

I've also checked in with Randy at VoodooFX to ensure that the base for the fans will not interfere with his engine lighting system.



> I hope that bridge of yours comes with a high-back chair option!


Absolutely


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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

I'm gonna wait until the 1/350 version comes out before putting out that much effort.

For me, half the fun of the 18 incher is being able to throw it together in a half hour and have a decent looking model when all's said and done.


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

If they're basically upscaling the 350T from the 1/1000, then it will already be accurate, saving much time and effort! 

I also like the speed with which the 18" goes together. Doing as much extra as I have on these has surprised me greatly. For all three of these so far, i am up to ~20hrs, rounding up. Of course, much of that has been dealing with problems essentially of my own doing.


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

Well well well. Almost a week since my last post! Astounding. 

In that time, I uploaded my 100th vid. Over 2000 people watched those 100 vids 4x yielding over 9000 views in the last two months, ~1000 having been through my channel page. I'll try to post some of the stats and graphs youtube provides. It's kinda cool.

Turning to the models:
I've taped two updates before the link below. In the first case, the audio was turned off.  I'm trying a voice-over edit now. The second update changed speed some with a background experiment but overall fell short in missing the Aristarchus. It shows off some great close ups of the damage areas, but is otherwise humdrum.

So it is that this update finds the builds well advanced from the last time you saw them. All three have been sealed up and share a common gray primer.

*Status Report 03 4 mins*






ADDITIONAL:
Here are a couple mins of the dremel slicing involved in the Aristarchus dish/pylon work captured at 300 frames per second, 10x slower than reality. The master footage was 90mins. The few best parts are cut down here to the 110 seconds below.

*41 sec*





*41 sec*





*33 sec*


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## Maritain (Jan 16, 2008)

Hey Model Man looking good! I like the shorter pylons on the tug gives it a tighter look. Looking forward to more.


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

One step fwd, 2 back, another 2 fwd again...

All three have been flirting with the 'finish' line for some time now, usually stumbling along. 

Well, after a few more stumbles, mostly involving cracked seams and my 'measure once, cut until it's right' philosophy, they are yet again closer (and better off) than they were. Last night's session was good stuff. Cracked the 2ndary hulls open, reinforced and sealed, sliced that long pylon down to size.

As of this coming evening's work, the Republic is down to the '1000 grit' sanding pass stage, the Defiant is recooperating from major spinal surgery before another round and Aristarchus is limping around after a broken leg. Will post another round tomorrow. I hope to keep that post shorter than these. 

*Status Report 04A Wounded in battle 5 min* 





*Status Report 04B Pylon surgery 3.5 min*





*Status Report 04C Minor Surgery 8 min*





*Status Report 04D Major Surgery 6.5 min*





*Status Report 04E Recovering in Post Op 7.5 min*


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## WarpCore Breach (Apr 27, 2005)

Inasmuch as I love this kit, your issues with the secondary hulls of the 2 cruisers is something I've had to deal with before as well...!

While progress on my Destroyer/Scout models have pretty much come to standstill right now (unexpected Real Life issues) I did have some time to conduct secondary hull repairs on a plastic secondary hull that is being used with the Thomas Models "Doomsday Damaged Starship" conversion kit. Had to tear the bottom of the hull off as well and then installed plastic strip along the sides for reinforcement and for good measure, ran bulkhead-like strips across the top seam, followed by longitudal strips that basically tied the whole thing together. I did something similar for the old McDaniel Endeavour kit some years ago. The conversion kit gives you solid resin nacelles and saucer that puts a LOT of stress on those joints.... and I'm tired of fixing this thing over and over!! Now, if I could just get the danged saucer to STAY glued on as well...! LOL!

In any case, thanks for the vids that shows your progress. Once I get these issues behind me, I definitely will pick up where I left off!


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

WarpCore Breach said:


> ... (unexpected Real Life issues) ...


What is this 'real life issues' you humans speak of? lol. Naw, they do oft times get in the way, don't they?

But thanks WCB, it is a love/hate situ with these kits. I don't recall having these kinds of troubles building them as a kid though. I think it's cos we're 'smarter' now and we overthink them? Kid: "Seam? What's that? Don't bug me now, I've got a new space ship to fly around the house!"


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

The result of the previous installment is on display in tonight's update. I kept it to 4 mins and highlights everything on all three w/ no extraneousnessisity. Is that a word? It is now. 

*Status Report 05: Round Up 4 mins*





With all I have learned on these, I am ready to build one straight up out of the gate proper. I also want to build an FJ Scout and I think I should attempt to scratch a Dreadnought. The Saucer would seem the most difficult part, but perhaps I am wrong. With no bottom or rear elevations, it will be more difficult than needs be methinks.


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## WarpCore Breach (Apr 27, 2005)

Model Man said:


> ... I think I should attempt to scratch a Dreadnought....


You mean a Dreadnought something like this.....?


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## ShotgunLebowski (Sep 12, 2003)

Just out of curiosity, you seem to be having a lot of problems keeping your seems glued. What are you using? Have you tried Ambroid Pro Weld?

Sorry if this was answered or asked already. 

John


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

Shotgun: I have not tried the stuff you recommend, I use regular CA as it is a good deal at the dollar store. In the case of these particular models, the 2ndary hull seams are widely derided for the crap they are. I can't, for example, break the seams on the dish w/o shredding the plastic. Now that the 2ndary hull is properly bulked up, I couldn't break those w/o a hammer. 

Breach: Nice. Is that ~1/650? Have you got a thread going for that yet? I'll subscribe if you do. I wanna find out more.


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## ShotgunLebowski (Sep 12, 2003)

Yeah Go get some ambroid from your LHS. It may be called something different now but it comes in a small glass bottle and it has a brush applicator. You will want to get most of the paint away from the seems before you try it. 

Back Left is what you want. 
http://www.ambroid.com/Ambroid.html

It's what I use a majority of the time, guys in our sci-fi model club use this as well. It's capillary so you mate the seems and paint ambroid over. Hold 10 Seconds and you have a good bond. Just make sure you turn your fan on to move the fumes away from you... 

Worth a shot might save you some grief 

John


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## WarpCore Breach (Apr 27, 2005)

Model Man said:


> Breach: Nice. Is that ~1/650? Have you got a thread going for that yet? I'll subscribe if you do. I wanna find out more.


Nah, that picture is several years old. No thread was ever started on that one except as maybe some progress shots which were contempary with the ones I've shown here. It is supposedly 1/650; it's the McDaniel Models kit. I had a problem with the resin secondary hull cap where it wouldn't let the primer dry. I couldn't stop it from doing that, so I shelved the kit until recently. Things have gotten kinda mixed up in my move some months ago; I haven't yet found 2 of the engines and the detail pieces I didn't add on from those pics plus the saucer needs to be re-attached. In fact, most of the builds I had going concurrently with the DN all need massive repair....! I haven't tried priming the DN yet - she needs dockyard overhaul; the massive subspace translocation disruption (my move) exceeded structural integrety fields on most of the ships outfitting in the yards. We're talking saucer separations, cracked secondary hull seams (sounds familiar?) and other damage. Heck, even the wrecked _Constellation_ acquired more damage than we saw onscreen! LOL! Even though I found the DN, she's gonna have to wait her turn until I have the DD/SC ships done!! At least I have some incentive.


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## ShotgunLebowski (Sep 12, 2003)

Ok you got me intrigued. I haven't built this kit since I was in I would guess 8th grade. Let's put it this way the last one broke durring assembly and it was later relegated to 4th ofJuly fun..

So rather than have you try Ambroid and not work then chastize me, I decided to throw the secondary hull together and clean it up to the point of putty. :thumbsup:


http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g156/cwuspanky/AmtEnterprise/IMG_0351.jpg

As you can see even without putty it's looking pretty sharp. Ambroid is like a welder for plastic. You can still see the seem faintly after I wailed on it for a bit with a file. But no breakage 

Hope it works for you

John

P.S Wow that assembly really is the pain in the arse I remember....


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

Breach: 'If' that DN is in scale, then the engines, according to the FJ SFTM, are exactly the same and look to be the only transferable piece (perhaps the sensor dish, clamshell and neck too). W/ your DD/SC going on, you've got a (some) spare engine(s) at least. 

According to the FJ chart, the DN should be ~20" to the Con's 18" (DD/Sc=15" Tug=14"). http://www.twinlitworlds.com/modelwerx/graphics/kits/kit102_3805_aristarchus/fjstarships18inch.jpg

But to note as well is that the 18" is *not* 1/650!!! 

The 'How big is the E' thread, and further research on my part (H.Solow Trek Sketchbook), confirm that the ship is 947' long. (18" x 650 = 11700 / 12 = 975'. So I guess one gets an additional 28' for free. (The 22"TOS @ 537 is worse = 984.5')) 

But otw, scaling the FJ drawings of the Con to 18" means the DN is 20", speaking in relative time/space. (And there is always my spurious math to contend with.)

Shotgun. Thanks for doing the experiment!  I never remembered that hull being so difficult (as a kid I just wanted to fly it around the house ASAP). But simply gluing a sty strip behind each wall first, then attaching the 3 pieces yields an indestructible and nearly seam-free (your results may vary) hull. 

The Republic build, integrating the popsicle stick tech, is a solid-as-steel SOB. I could glock that thing and the only result would be that the bullets would richoet off and hit me in the head. As my head is not reinforced with styrene nor popsicle sticks, I think it would hurt alot so I won't do that. (And I *do not* rec. that anyone else attempt such a feat even if their brain is protected by heavy styrene sheet or pospsicle sticks!) This advanced technology should work for the nacelles as well, but I did not do that for any now underway. 

With these three wrapping, I will start (oh geez) a fourth build. This new one (mk III) will integrate all the latest advancements in starship construction theory. The results should be stronger, better faster. But I gotta get these three out of the yard first. (you'll note one of my problems is wanting to jump straight to home plate, requiring me to run back and tag up on 2nd and 3rd (and beat the stupid umpire unconscious on the way!). :freak:

Looking to decal Republic this weekend! Defiant next weekend and we'll see where Aristarchus is along the way. Thanks for stopping by all!


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

PS. In terms of bashing some ships into existence, I sure wish I had my FASA SF Recognition Manual for some inspiration!  

Apart from Master JP's Most Excellent Builds, are there any easy links to the more conventional Fed ships out there?


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## WarpCore Breach (Apr 27, 2005)

Model Man said:


> Breach: 'If' that DN is in scale, then the engines, according to the FJ SFTM, are exactly the same and look to be the only transferable piece (perhaps the sensor dish, clamshell and neck too). W/ your DD/SC going on, you've got a (some) spare engine(s) at least.
> 
> According to the FJ chart, the DN should be ~20" to the Con's 18" (DD/Sc=15" Tug=14").
> 
> But to note as well is that the 18" is *not* 1/650!!!


The McDaniel DN is a complete kit on it's own, not a conversion! (see pics below) I think the DN was longer when I attempted to match lengths with a-then-complete Conny at the time...I don't remember for sure right now. My biggest surprise is that the DN saucer is exactly the same diameter as the Conny saucer, which it shouldn't be. It really is the only thing that takes away from an otherwise excellent model. I know that the 18" TOS E isn't 1/650 - parts of it are different scales, someone pointed out long ago....! The DN will be getting a minor retrofit- upgrading the rear caps with the resin ones from Accurate Parts, or at least when I find where two of the engines went.

In any case, I don't have any extra engines with any of these kits. One SC was put together from an oddly incomplete kit - someone took the outside of one engine and the inside of another. The only thing that could be done was to make a SC out of it! All of the other single-engine ships are using resin conversions that include the engine.


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

Breach: I see. That is too bad about the saucer size. That's a significant detail to simply overlook. Maybe he simply cast off as much of the AMT as he could? Thanks for those Dn pix!

I was looking over the DN last night and I am going to go for it. I have the plastic. I think I have the skills. That 2ndary hull is a bizarre shape, but should otw go ok. It will certainly be the most difficult part.
...

Stopped by my local and picked up the one remaining tin box they had. (all these kits are on heavy back order now they said) 

I'm turning the tin box into a storage container unit for active model parts and handy tools. I was going to throw all the annoying plastic the box contained away, but figured I should do something useful with it.  It will be a Destroyer. NCC-506, USS Pompeii. The SFTM lists it as Pompey. However, this is the Greek spelling. While the Roman city is spelled Pompei, the man himself was General Pompeii. So double-i it is.

Even though FJ made the Ds and Sc the same (apart from torpedoes and 500mt), I am philosophically inclined to throwing a shuttle bay on the Scout. What's the point in being a scout if you can't land a detachment? Transporters are great, but shuttles are a necessity it would seem. Not so for a destroyer. And while there are scout shuttle bay conversions out there, I don't think I will be building one regardless. At this point, I simply want to build the FJ 4 and a Ds fulfills that need instantly. 

Newsflash: 
Pompeii is underway with mad superstructure work learned over the course of these other ships. 

Republic is ready for 'factory fresh ' colors. 

Defiant took a surprising leap forward and is about ready for final colors. 

Aristarchus has one potentially big problem: the engines are not parallel to the impulse runner on the saucer top! I think I can heat gun them into parallelitude. One other minor major problem is that the stbd engine is set back about 1/8" from the port side. This is noticeable and may/will require me to rip one engine off and set it right. 

Wish I could change the title of this thread to 'Four of 'em now???'


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

*Status Report 06 3.5 min*





*USS Pompeii 01 The Basics 5 min*





*USS Pompeii 02 Moving Along 6 min*





*USS Pompeii 03 Assembled! 6 min*


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## ShotgunLebowski (Sep 12, 2003)

Wow some hobby shop is making a killing off these kits from you 

Here is another trick with the squadron putty. When you put it on take some acetone based nail polish remover and dip Q-Tips in it. This lets you work the putty closer to the final shape but also makes less work after it's done curing. Seems to make it level out better. 

John


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## Seashark (Mar 28, 2006)

Model Man,

I must say I'm enjoying your vids. Keep them coming! :thumbsup:

Also, I quite like your Destroyer. I might just do one myself, However If I do I'll use the PL E; that old AMT has given me enough migraines.


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

John: Yeah, my local has gotten about $100 and Culttvman got another $40 on all these. My local is literally a mom-and-pop shop that has been in business for just over 60yrs, so I am glad to help them out w/ some buys whenever I can.

One tin box in my possession will remain sealed indefinitely -as much as I may want to crack it open. I wouldn't mind building all 13 Hvy Cruisers, but we'll see. I gotta land another job now, so luxury purchases are offlined for awhile. But the good news is that I have plenty of kits stocked up to keep me busy for some time. 

Thanks for the acetone trick. I will have to pick up a pint and give it a try. Squad is great for a couple seconds, then it chunks up. I used to use Tamiya putty, but my local hasn't been able to get that for some time now. The one great thing about squad is it is fast drying and highly sandable. But trying to actively shape it is out of the question. Whereas the Tamiya is great to manipulate, but difficult to sand down later. I looked around for 'Bondo', but have been unable to find any at the auto stores. 

Seashark: Thanks! I will keep them coming. I'm glad that folks are getting some entertainment out of them. The Destroyer was a very fun and very fast build, taking about 20 mins to throw together, not counting prep and post work and such. It will certainly be the fastest of the four, but it is also missing most of the body the rest are, so no surprise there. I've got a 350 Refit/Destroyer waiting for my fear-of-the-paint-job to subside before I build it. I figure that will be good practice for the full Refit I've had boxed up for almost two years now.

My youtube stats now show that about 2500 people have watched my 114 vids about 10,000x. Crazy! This past week about 42% have been the ladies! Woo-hoo! The downside there is that of those, 60% are in their 50's or in their mid-teens.  But if any crafty ladies in their 35-45 range are reading this now in the L.A. area, call me!  

*News:*
*Republic:* I'm waiting on the paint to dry to know if that was indeed the 'final' base color, or if I still have touchups to do. If I do have touchups in front of me, that will be too bad as I ran out of paint! (see Defiant)

*Defiant:* While doing the last spot touch ups, I ran out of Testors Light aircraft gray! I had MM's Camo gray on hand which is distinctly more yellow. Once that is all dry, Defiant goes all Camo gray, decals, then glow in the dark green.

*Aristarchus:* Looking ok apart from previosuly mentioned build errors. That's sitting w/ primer now, after which, more sanding-primer-putty-sanding. That could be almost it otherwise. I will try some different paints on that to see what hull color I really like.

*Pompeii:* Putty-sand-primer-putty-sand-primer. It's close and may leap ahead of Aristarchus.

When everything has dried later tonight, I'll post another status report. There have been mumblings about anyone doing the decals yet on these ships. I think the two Hvy Cruisers get theirs this week. I will be sure to tape the process.

NB: There are some fantastic paint jobs of the Hvy Cruiser on this site and I am quite intimidated by them as I know my AB skills are not on par. As such, I will be painting mine to match the apparent screen reality of plain gray ships rather than the beautiful details that others here have achieved. Maybe I'll use Aristarchus to learn on, maybe not. We'll see. But the two Hvy Cruisers will be 'plain'.


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## ShotgunLebowski (Sep 12, 2003)

Yeah I used the tamiya putty and liked it. I have Miliput but I'm waiting for a junk kit to play with it. The one downside to squadron(atleast it used to) is it will shrink over time. So if you do multiple coats and use the acetone nail polish remover it should help. 

Sadly the last model I used Squadron on was attacked by a labrador retriever. That was built 3 years ago 

RIP
http://www.galaxyhobby.com/Contest/scifi24.jpg

John


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

The dog ate your model? C'mon, dude! That one's older than my 2nd grade teacher 30 yrs ago! :wave:

ps, Glad I have a cat!

But seriously, that is regrettable. Which one was it in that pic?


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

*Status Report 07 Four Birds, One Stone 8 mins*





I've been looking to keep these short so no one goes to sleep or is intimidated by the time listed. In this case, I am covering four models at 2 mins each -which seemed reasonable after I watched it the first time. 

If you wanna skip thru, the order is Republic, Defiant, Aristarchus and Pompeii w/ a brief nod to the upcoming Dreadnought (for which I just printed the full scale plans to. She's ~20" x 9" x 5.4" A real nice size on paper, this will be a big ship in person).

The Dn is guaranteed its' own thread when I get to it. I've got a couple scratch projects on hand now, so I will likely do them all at once after I finish off the electronics for Galileo, a B-Tech Rifleman toy modelization project and a regular glue and paint job on the 2001 ASO Chinese satellite that got kicked aside when R2 screwed me over my releasing the AMT 1701 again!  

-Just kidding! I'm glad she's on the market again. Ebay was way to expensive to do what I am doing now with them.

Thanks for watching all!!!


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## dehayes (Mar 9, 2006)

I am so glad that you are using these repops. Yes, they are nortoriously inaccurate and have dimples on the bottom and all the rest; but, as you are showing, with just a little effort you can produce a nice looking model of our favorite "grey lady". Keep up the great work, I watch all your update videos and thoroughly enjoy them. They inspire me to dust off my workbench and get building again.


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## Griffworks (Jun 24, 2002)

Lookin' good so far! Also looks like you're havin' a lot of fun w/these - what this hobby is all about! 




Model Man said:


> Breach: I see. That is too bad about the saucer size. That's a significant detail to simply overlook. Maybe he simply cast off as much of the AMT as he could? Thanks for those Dn pix!


I don't know for sure, but the size on the saucer may have been a limitation of his vac-forming table. Just a thought, anyhow. 


> Wish I could change the title of this thread to 'Four of 'em now???'


Your wish is my Heavy Handed Moderator command!


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## WarpCore Breach (Apr 27, 2005)

Heh! Jeff, you are TEH AWESOME!

LOL!! :lol:


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## WarpCore Breach (Apr 27, 2005)

WarpCore Breach said:


> The McDaniel DN is a complete kit on it's own, not a conversion! My biggest surprise is that the DN saucer is exactly the same diameter as the Conny saucer, which it shouldn't be.


I must make a correction and an apology about the DN saucer! I WAS WRONG! That's what you get to trusting a memory more than a few years old. Sometimes you get it right.... other times, not so much. This is one of those times. I was handling some DN parts and wondering why the shape of the upper saucer was changed. The DN I got mostly built must have been an early one. I obtained a second (as per the parts pics I posted) and the upper saucer shape is much more cone-shaped - concave where my original is almost convex. Alas, McDaniel Models is long out business and who knows what had become of him. It's too bad - I really liked working on his kits.

Tonight, I decided to measure both the TOS E and DN saucers. Must have been that little voice I didn't really hear earlier.  The _Enterprise_ saucer measures out at 7 15/16" and the DN saucer just a shade under 8 1/2". So that means that the McDaniel DN saucer IS bigger, as it should be! It's not much, but at this scale (once we determine just what the proper scale is!) that may be all the difference it needs! Since it was marketed as a 1/650 kit, I would venture to guess that is what the DN saucer worked out to. I've seen another scale listed for the 18" TOS E as 1/630(ish) and if so, the DN saucer will still be slightly undersize, but it may not be worth the additional effort to increase its diameter.

Should I ever get around to building this second DN, it will make an interesting contrast to the first one.


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

Thanks De. 
Thanks Mr. Heavy! :thumbsup:

Breach: the 650 scale is wrong. 650*18/12=975'. Taking MJ"s 947' as correct, then 631.repeating 3 is the correct scale. But somewhere else here, someone mentioned that different parts of the kit are different scales, so that's all there is to that notion.

However, blowing Franz's Hvy Cruiser illustration to 18" means that all his drawings become relative to that. Otw, I couldn't use the engines and such from the AMT kit for my Dn build. 

Now there are a couple ways to measure the drawing: to the outside fo the line and the inside of the line for example. Measuring the outside lines of the Dn Saucer yields 9" for the top. I never measured the bottom, but I am giving it a generic 1/4" smaller for 8.75". Either way, you've got some extensions to do if you're going to do them.

In 'Four of 'em, Now? news':

Republic and Defiant are 12hrs curing into their last paint. I'm cutting brass in a little bit, gluing that on and starting decals. I am toying with the idea of spraying Defiant w/ a coat of transparent black. I think it will add to the ghostliness, but don't know for sure yet.

Aristarchus and Pompeii got more sanding and priming. I'll see where they are later and updates will follow.

Cheers all!


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

*Git Yer Brass On pt1 9 min*




*
Git Yer Brass On pt2 7 min*





I was going to brass-up Republic, but figured Defiant is the better choice for experiments, considering its final step is getting sprayed with glow paint. 

While perfect for windows, I will not be doing a coat of transparent black on Defiant. I'd hoped to add to a more ghostly appearance, however the paint spots too much on broad surfaces.

Glad I used Defiant as I learned a couple things (read 'made mistakes') that would have disappointed me had I done them on Republic. Aristarchus and Pompeii are moving along w/ the primer-sand-putty-sand-primer-repeat dance.


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## Maritain (Jan 16, 2008)

Hey Model Man your builds are look'en good. The Brass is a very nice touch! 

Have a good one.


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## ShotgunLebowski (Sep 12, 2003)

I'm wondering if you dipped those brass bits in some sort of metal etching bath if it would darken them up like you were trying to do with the smoke. 

Also on the decals... They are the same ones just enlarged from the Polar Lights 1/1000 kit. They silvered really bad on that kit. So make sure you put that gloss coat down or else the decals will look like stickers. The flat coat lets little pockets of air in. Something else you could do is put a coat of future floor wax on the model, then decal then do your matte coat. 

Good luck, i had a rough week at work so didnt get much done on mine .. The one night I did work on it I almost knoxked myself out on the epoxy fumes as I forgot my mask.. doh

John


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

I've had a low grade headache for the last few days myself ala' putty and paint fumes. Usually the superglue doesn't bother me, but I'm sure it contributed.


*Decaling Defiant: Decals- 1, Tom- 0. Hak-tu!*

A year or two ago, I built a 1000th kit, used the sticker versions and promptly gave it away for the piece of junk it was. I know there are many fans of that kit, but it's more hassle than it's worth. imo.

*As for these decals:*
*1.* Once down, it is near impossible to manipulate them w/o tearing, ripping or flipping them over on themselves.

*2.* While getting their initial soak, the edges fall away from the sheet before the center has fully soaked, thus causing edges to flip on themselves.

*3.* The bizarre shapes involved lend themselves to flipping over on themselves or simply floating away.

*4.* While super-soaking the plastic and decal will help you slide the decal around 'some' after initial application, this process lends itself to the decal flipping on itself. 

*5.* Once flipped on itself, there is no saving it. You will only rip the good parts up. 

*6.* If I didn't have spares amongst all four different ships to reassign, I would be very upset w/ R2 for being so stupid about how they did these.

*7.* Even cutting some of the bigger shapes down to smaller pieces (esp, the side pennant w/ all the windows and number details) still lent themselves to flipping over.

*8.* The bizarre shapes R2 used means it can be near impossible in any situations to slide the decal off the sheet and into position using any given standard methodology known.

*9.* Did I say 'Hak-tu!' already? Let me say it again... HAK-TU!

*10.* It looks like the only way to really do this is cut every single last one of the mofo's into the smallest possible unit and go from there. This will ruin all the pre-made spacing that was graciously done by making them the bizarre shapes they are, but that is all there is to it.


I've got a little more painting to do on Defiant anyway, so after sort of getting some decals down, I'm going to paint and will return to the decals later. Video will be posted tonight or tomorrow morning depending on render times. I've got some speed changes I have to put into the footage.


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## Guy Schlicter (May 3, 2004)

Thanks for the update on the decals.Applying them as whole giant decals looked like it could be a headache.And not knowing the quality of Round 2 decals,Ertl decals for the most part were good.Once applied you could shift them into their postion without much of a problem and when you positioned them for good they stay down.If works better for me appying decals that are slightly smaller in size.I can work with them easier.


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

If these were dry transfers, I'd be loving life as I'd be finished already. Once these flip on themselves, that's that. And they do like to flip on themselves so far. I'll be cutting them down to the smallest possible rectangle and going from there. I can't say they are well designed. As to the quality of the film, it does have a solid grip on things. If it weren't so much more money, I'd almost say to get JT's replacements and work those. 

I've got kits w/ the tissue paper and the release paper. The tissue paper ripped a lot of these decals up. None that I needed fortunately. Youtube is loading up now, so hopefully soon Ill have my next round of vids posted here. I spent an hour last night on these and got most of three or four decals on, while ripping several off that became too much of a problem to deal with.

Has no one else made it this far with their kits yet? 

And has anyone who built the 1000th had any good success stories on applying these demons from the pit of satan's bowels? Bueller?


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## ShotgunLebowski (Sep 12, 2003)

hey Tom

yeah i've done the 1/1000 kit with the same decals. You have to put a good solid gloss coat down and be done with paint prior to working with this decals.

Do you have micro sol and micro set? Those will help you out a ton and your LHS should have both. Like I said above if you can future floor wax(grocery Store) is a good way to go as it's self leveling, you should be able to shoot this with an air brush. By putting that down it gives you a nice and smooth surface to work with. 

My only other advice is go slow with them  They are complex decals but it can be done. I did several of the 1/1000 kits and they are even smaller. 

Now if you have one of the decals flip on you my trick is to dip your finger in the water and drop a big glob on the problem. Then try very lighty nudging with your finger or a toothpick and you should be able to flop it back over. 

John


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## Guy Schlicter (May 3, 2004)

Best of luck with those decals.With all the fine work your putting in those models.I hope the decals come out equally as good without any more headaches for you.Guy


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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

Well, you definitely have my sympathies. I had similar problems with decaling my 1/350 NX-01 (screwed up one sheet, then pretty well screwed up a second sheet some kind soul here gave me), so I'd like to offer up the following suggestions, not only for you but also for me, so I'll remember to practice what I preach and hopefully avoid these kinds of messes:

1) *DEFINITELY* get that gloss coat down first. Any decal, good or bad, will latch onto a matte surface like superglue (this is the bit I tend to forget in my rush to get the sucker done; at best, the decals start silvering and look like stickers, and at worst, the decals break up, flip over, disintegrate, etc.).

2) Try putting some water droplets on the surface before the decals go on. This will aid in positioning the decals, by keeping them from getting that death grip on the surface. When they're in position, just blot the decals, and the water will just come out the sides.


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

Thanks Cpt. I knew about the silvering, but not about the 'latching'. This is a particularly rough surface too, so I'm now not surprised they are grabbing the surface so strongly. I had never noticed that problem in the last couple years w/ my other matte paints (but did have the silvering). Defiant will be the last model I do in this old style way. Defiant to the last.

I also got the pre-watering tip from a guy on youtube, so I will use that to help me thru Defiant. 

And all this is not to say that the shapes of these decals are simply stupid too. I'm willing to admit my neanderthal ways, but I'm not letting R2 off the hook completely. Two smaller, and more logically ordered, sheets would be better than this single sheet BS. (IMO, as always.)

Normally, one would put the wet sheet on the surface and pull it from under the decal so the decal plops right down. The shapes involved w/ these decals means you cannot pull in any given direction as the torque of a direction will twist the decal shape in another. Quite frustrating. So I still rec. cutting the decals down to rectangular shapes to eliminate any cross-torque issues.

Thinking Defiant is shut down, I painted her bussards a medium gray. I then sprayed the MM Transparent Black into a lid and brushed that on. The result is that there is some translucence going on. Oddly, the overall effect suggests to me goth-girl black lipstick/makeup. It's kinda hot. Now it just needs a choker, some fishnets... Mmmmm. :woohoo:

In other news: 
Republic is getting the 'golden bussard' treatment. I've painted her up w/ a lot of brass/copper otherwise.

Arista and Pompeii need a sanding. They are close to painting. 

In experimenting w/ different hull colors, I've found that MM gloss gull gray is the closest I have on hand/commonly available to me. I know that Connie is more of a 'concrete' gray, but I have not found any pre-made paints that are very close w/o going too yellow or blue.

What are some color calls folks have out there? Is there already a post of good colors somewhere? I don't mind using my best-guess method, but would like to know how far/close I am getting. Any definitive references? 

PS. I can't say that I like what they did to her in the most recent Smithsonian restoration. It has nice qualities, maybe the photos I've seen are simply bad... Maybe the memories of faded and duped tv prints are just cluttering up my mind. I do like what the subtlety of the Remaster version, but don't have any caps of that.

Thanks very much everybody!


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

*Defiant Decals pt01A 6min*





*Defiant Decals pt01B 7.5 min*





*Defiant Decals pt01C 5 min*





*Defiant Decals pt02 6.5 min*


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## Guy Schlicter (May 3, 2004)

I made a test decal from the new sheet.My paper covering the decal sheet came off without a problem.I soaked the decal in warm water for about 40 seconds and as it was soaking the decal started coming off the sheet in the water.I then slide it off the sheet and the edge of the decal immediatley started folding over on the decal sheet.I slide it on too the side of a styrofoam cup and the decal wouldn't budge.Thats not good,you can't shift the decal into position.You have to apply the decal perfect to the surface on your first attempt or you out of luck.My solution for my first reissue is to take a sheet of the old AMT Enterprise decals from the small box kit.Even though they are inaccurate they can be shifted into the correct position and they stay down once applied.These new decals look great and are accurate but are nearly impossible to apply.


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## ShotgunLebowski (Sep 12, 2003)

My tissue paper was stuck too it appears in the same spot. I've also emailed round2 about it. The original 1/1000 did not have that sheet if I remember right. 

John


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

After taking a breather, I went back to the Defiant this evening and finished all decals in the span of several hours. I did not vid any of the process. 

Yesterday I put a clear gloss coat over the body and that did help tremendously. Wetting the surface down helped and I kept a wet qtip handy to loosen things up fast. Once wet enough, many of the decals were slideable for some time. Some of the smaller decals were not though and required more effort than would seem necessary given their relative size. When I had them all where I wanted, I gently rolled a dry qtip over the edges to wick away the excess water. I then brushed the solvaset over them and let that evaporate away.

When putting the decals down, the first contact point w/ the hull tended to stick fast while the ass-end of the decal was quite loose and slippable. I don't have an explanation for this, but it was a common circumstance throughout the process. Perhaps my finger dried the decal out at that contact point?

Additionally: there was some minor amounts of disintegration evident and some still wanted to flip, but I had a better tool this time to help save them.

I took great liberty in choosing my decals, picking from all but the Mirror2 logos. As Defiant is 'dead' I mostly used the black windows throughout, but did use some lit windows here and there. I also used some decals belonging in one place and moved them to another where, perhaps, there should be none. 

The BC deck decals had the wrong curvature, so I wound up slicing and positioning each window individually. I also split them between B and C deck as they only represented one deck or the other as they were. I may drop a couple more single windows down. 

I also added a deck to the saucer windows by doubling up on the black windows from both pilot versions. I may add a few more individual windows there as well -and along the 2ndary hull.

I glued all three nacelle bits on each engine, leaving only the deflector dish to add at this point. I'll give her one last look over and that will be that. I did notice a couple spots around the hull that need the slightest paint touchups. Those should go well. 

I'm waiting for the solvaset to fully evaporate before handling the ship again. At that point, I will give y'all a tour.

Tomorrow, when it's warm, Republic will get a gloss coat. Pompeii got sanded and primed. It's very close. I'll go look at Arista now.

Happy modeling.


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

Defiant has its first full coat of clear matte over the entire body. It could be the chilly temperature, but the matte appears to have some mild crackling over the decals only, not the painted body. I'll attempt the lightest of sandings with some 800 grit to eliminate the texture. It's also possible it's the decals themselves. And it's also possible that in those small spots, a heavier blast of matte pooled and caused the crackling. 

Another thing of note: I hoped the matte would level out the thickness of the decal to the paint surface. On this first coat at least, it has not. There are distinct decal shapes evident. Perhaps another coat or two will level things out. I don't want to go too heavy as that definitely will crackle the surface. Having come this far, that is not something I want to risk at this late stage in the game.

The video tour is still to come. 

*Pompeii* now looks great w/ the mildest of sandings up next. 

*Arista* is pretty sweet and may need one more round of sand/primer. 

*Republic* awaits the afternoon sun before I'll risk the clear gloss coat on that.

*PS.* For Defiant's eyebrows, I'm thinking of cutting the extra pylon vents into shape. They have a cross-hatch texture, but I don't know how I will get the eyebrows done otherwise. The saucer is looking quite plain w/o them 

*PPS.* Having extra decals, I took 18" Constitution from her ceiling moors and dressed her up some. I may need to give her a full repaint in light of what I know now as compared to what I was guessing at two years ago. I'll try to get her and 22" Excalibur in the vids too.

Happy glue sniffing! Uh, modeling. Yeah, that's it. _Modeling._


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## ShotgunLebowski (Sep 12, 2003)

How long did you wait before you put the Matte down? The cracking could be the glossy coat if that wasn't done curing, some sort of reaction. Have you ever used the Absolute Model Decals? Those will wrinkle up and then the next morning they are fine. great decals for the 1/1000 E BTW

John


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

The crackling only occurred on some of the decals, not the painted surface. But the gloss went down before the decals, so that is unlikely it. Good call though. I will watch for that in the future as something similar happened on a space shuttle I built two years ago. However, I'd say I waited about 30hrs from the gloss coat going down. 

I finished my third (and I think final) coat of matte an hour ago. I'll wait til later to handle it again. 

When I get Defiant out of the window-fan-box-area, I'll gloss Republic up. Arista does need another sand and primer on the saucer. Pompeii is now ready for her factory colors.

*Decal sheet note:* Of the four sheets I have, one is the special release paper, one was a sort of wax paper and two were the tissue paper. Of those two, the one stuck the other day and ripped away at the decal sheet, the other was tacked on the decal face, but did not pull or rip any flecks of decal away. The wax paper and release paper slid away from the decal face w/ no probs. It seems that R2 has been changing things up as production went along. I wonder what the order of operations was?


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

*All four 7.5 min*


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## ShotgunLebowski (Sep 12, 2003)

Yeah those decals are the devil for sure. You could try the future floor wax on the next one to see if that helps with the leveling. Maybe someone can confirm but i've heard of people doing this. 


Gloss Coat
Decal
Gloss Coat
Dull Coat

John


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## Maritain (Jan 16, 2008)

Hey Model man they are all looking great, I think the Defiant is very well done, it looks sharp and clean. 

I agree with ShotgunLebowski on Decal MO, it has always worked well for me. I am doing my decals now and thanks to your previous vid I am cutting mine into smaller bit size sections and using lots of Micro Sol and I am just doing small section at a time. In the past my big mistake was to try to do them in one sitting, patience is the best tool, especially for decals. 

Have a good one.


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

Here's today's rundown so far.

*Republic*: 
I finished the detail painting off. It wouldn't have interfered w/ decals if I'd left it til later, but I touched up some hull as well. My hull was a base Lt aircraft gray (too yellow) w/ the dying gasps of my last gull gray lightly over it to make a unique color. As such, my hull touchups look like smudges now. I'm crying. I sanded the blemishes down and mostly away. 

I'm running with it as is. It's not so bad that I can't live w/ it, but it was a disappointment to an otherwise 'perfect' finish. And somewhere in the coating, very small minor dark flecks got themselves sandwiched in the mix. I cleaned the hull, sprayed the clear gloss and there they were. Wretched creatures! Again, not so bad that I can't live with it. And after all these ships have been through, I ain't doing more base color work again! I'll be decaling tonight.

*Defiant Glow test:*
And I'm very glad I did do a test! Esp. on scrap plastic!!! The glow paint is too thick for the airbrush and too lumpy to brush on. In watering it for AB use, the potency dropped to near zero.  There was some glow, but it faded in moments. That = useless. I want the glow to last some amount of time. 

This stuff claims 12 hrs of glow time:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ULTRA-GREEN-Glo...photoQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262
For ~$10, I'll give it a shot. I'm not rushing to get it though. For now Defiant goes on the ceiling.

*Arista and Pompeii *are much closer. I'm just waiting for some thick primer to fully cure so I don't mange it up w/ the sandpaper by rushing things. I'm going to try rustoleum's white metal primer for a base color on one of them. It's nowhere near pure white, but is still a few points brighter than I think it should be for the hull. Once the decals are on, it should look sharp.

*Connie:* After putting a few spare decals on her hull, I'm thinking about drowning her in the tub until her decals come off and giving her all new ones. (I don't think I sealed her over.) I was stunned holding Defiant next to her. I never imagined those old decals were so inaccurate! 
...

Further, the dash of 1701 research I've done in the last 24hrs has shocked me to see how mind-numbingly wrong the kit is!!! Holy crud!!! 

Another shock to me was that every single ship I have built over the years, I have put the inner nacelle runner on backwards! I never once thought that the flat plate bit went forward and the smooth round end was at the back. I simply put the aerodynamic end at the front w/o ever once thinking about! 

Republic (Arista, Pompeii) will get it right, but Defiant is the last one I will ever build that will have it wrong. (She (currently) joins my Connie and Excalibur in having it wrong. I would need spares to fix them.)

My intention has always been that the latest model I build will always be the best I can do based on the mistakes I made on the previous kit. Never has it been more glaringly true on these four! (What's was Arthur's motto? "Adopt, Adapt, Succeed?") 

To put it more simply, "Excelsior!"


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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

One thing that occurred to me regarding the window decals for the B/C deck, and why they don't fit.

Well, remember, these things were originally laid out for the 1/1000 kit, which is a lot more accurate, especially regarding the B/C deck, whereas the venerable 18" model has always been woefully _in_accurate in that specific feature. So, of course, the fit isn't even close.

As far as the decal issue in general, I'm tempted to take one of these sheets into a local decal company and get their opinion, and maybe even see if they could make Round 2 a better deal than the clowns they're using now. 

I can say for certain that a big part of the problem is that the clear lacquer isn't thick enough to keep the decal together when it comes off the paper. It's great when you're lucky enough to nail the position right off the bat, because there's gonna be very little silvering, but God help you if you don't get it just right and try and reposition it.

At the very least, you'd think Round 2 could have a chat with the guys who used to do the decals for AMT back in the day. At least you could shift those suckers into place.


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## ShotgunLebowski (Sep 12, 2003)

Captain

I think the tearing issue is probably related to the Tissue Paper being stuck to the decals. I'm betting that once you pry it off it's done some damage to the decal surface which then translate to them easily tearing. I'm probably going to end up ordering aftermarket now. I'll have to see how my sheet reacts, though I can see some sort of residue over the top 1/4 of my decal sheet. 

On a positive note I did contact RC2 and they are aware of the issue and have notified the manufacturer. So hopefully this doesn't happen again on the new kits. BTW there is a new Article on trekmovie.com on the next couple releases from Round2

http://trekmovie.com/2009/01/27/more-retro-star-trek-model-kits-for-2009/

John


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

The tissue paper definitely pulled ink/film off the sheet, thus damaging the decal itself and its application. 

In this latest round of work, I discovered that most of the 'clean' shapes had skank edges. That is, though it looked like clean film lines, the edges would either pull some of the rest of the 'lesser' coating along for the ride, or the edges were bunching up, much like fat on the edges of a good slab of steak. No... This stuff is just film skank. It really messed with the precision setting of the decal as the edges were all 'mushy' w/ excess fat. My redundancy is getting redundant, so...

*Republic Decals 1 Nacelles 8 min*





*Republic Decals 2A Stbd 2ndary Hull 7.5 min*





*Republic Decals 2B et al 2ndary Hull 5 min*





*Republic Decals 3 Saucy Bottom 5.5 min*




*
Republic Decals 4 Saucer Top 6 min*





*Republic Decals 5 Dem Decals z Dun 2 min*






That be two ships down with two to go! Arrr.


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## Maritain (Jan 16, 2008)

Your Republic looks sweet, the finish coat looks great and I like the gold on the bussards and your use and placement of extra decals is awsome! Looking forward to more.

P.S. the brass is classy


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

Thank ye, on the Republic. :wave:
Up close, regrettably, there are specks of dirt caught in the saucer finish. But I did not build these for a contest or a client, so they pass my poor levels of personal expectations. But I am quite happy with both Connies as they turned out. :hat:

I'm doing the matte passes tonight and will shoot a review of both Connies in the morning. 

Just found out I have a job monday, so I gotta crank as much plastic as I can over the next few days. Vaca is over!


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

*Status Report 9 Pompeii and Aristarchus 3.5 mins*





I'm going to use these two to test a rigging mount idea I have. It's far too late in the process to implement the idea properly, so I will happily be required to buy and build yet another Connie. Shucks! 

PS. I've got an overview of the four Connies I've built in the last four years uploading now. A 1983 Constitution herself, a 22" Excalibur and the 2009 release as expressed in the Republic and Defiant builds of recent days.


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

*Four Connies in a Row pt1 6.5 min*





*Four Connies in a Row pt2 6 min*





18" Constitution was built 2 years ago. (And it shows...)
22" Excalibur was built 1 year ago. (Getting better.)
18" Defiant was built last week. (What a difference!)
18" Republic was built yesterday. (Nice!)
18" TBA (Will be exceptional!)


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## starmanmm (Mar 19, 2000)

Kind of late to the party....been watching what you have been doing.

Lots of vids and some good ideas.

These thoughts may have already been said, if so... sorry.

First, I use aves apoxie putty to fill in any of the gaps on my kits instead of putty. Easier to shape into spaces and fills in with little need for a re-do.

I have done the brass thing on my current project which is the conversion of the 22" into the Constellation. What I did was cut out the areas that I wanted to have brass mesh and glued it from inside the part. Works well for the nacells, but the pylons needed to be thinned where you cut the squares out for the thickness of the plastic messed with the final look (which I learned too late on this one!).

Decals.... :freak: I hate decals. But ShotgunLebowski has it right. Gloss coat, put on decals, gloss coat again and then either leave it like that or dull coat it.

My understanding is that Micro Mark sells a micro set and micro sol... two solutions that are used to allow you to move the decal around and the other to help it suck down on irregular surfaces.

Also, I have heard that you can spray the decals with something like a matte spray to strengthen them.

Question.... why did you paint it gloss black before you painted it you base color?

PS Gotta give ya credit on how you were able to position the name on the top of the saucer and get it to look great!


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

It's beena long haul and the light is at the end of the tunnel at last, Starmanmm. Thanks for tagging along.

The general word has been Aves, so I'm gonna start looking around for it from here on out. I'm tired of Squad. Tamiya has a good putty, but it's still lower rung... 

I like the idea about back-siding the brass! 

Decals: Some of these are going down invisibly w/o any surface prep. With two models now doing the exact same thing in the same exact place w/ however many coats of gloss/matte in different orders I've done, somethign is up. It is only the name and number that have done it significantly and consistently. Once is chance. Twice is coincidence. A third time will be a trend. The fourth will be confirmation.

In addition to micro mark, there's also Walthers decal solution which eliminates silvering and other suchness. The bottle I have on hand is ultra-old and sets like a layer of rubber cement, otw I would use that. These are done, so while I'm disappointed, that is that at this point for those. Solvaset is great stuff too. Buta gain, w/ these particular decals, they like to catch and lock down. There was a post somewhere here agreeing with that sentiment. Poor quality decals to begin with from the start that R2 is specifically addressing as they continue production.

Gloss black is what I had on hand, but I prefer flat. There are a few reasons why I go with (one or several) black pass(es). 

One solid black pass eliminates what is known in the 3d trade as 'subsurface scattering'. That is, light penetrates a surface and bounces around inside that surface before bouncing back out. It's what gives skin its glow (like when you put a flashlight against your finger) A black pass kills that outright I've got a few spaceships where I didn't do that and they 'glow' in sunlight. Uncool. 

Also, I usually alternate my primer layers black and white as this helps pop the defects out by giving a highlight/shadow effect. And when doing the putty-sand-primer-repeat dance, black covers better and faster with less used than white or gray.

And giving a full black coat before your top paint means that it gets in the crevices, adding 'ambient occlusion'. That is, it represents deeper shadows in nooks and crevices that should have deeper shadows than they do at model-sized scales. Done right, it's essentially similar to doing a dark wash on top of your colors to pop the details. In this case, it's done under your colors instead of over them. A subtle, but distinct, difference and effect.

And on many spaceships, robots, metal constructs, I'll put a few silver layers in the mix. This way when doing weathering, I can scuff the top paint down to reveal underlying 'metal', rather than dry brushing it on top. Another subtle difference that can look much more realistic. And if the paint chips naturally, or the model is damaged, it reveals underlying 'metal' (or black or white, rather than bare styrene.

If any of that makes sense, I'd like to hear opinions on this/these notion(s) of mine from everyone. Am I simply delusional or am I on to something here? 

Maybe its the toulene talking!


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

Here's an example of subsurface scatter:








Apart from the dish, it is also evident down the hull ine at the bottom.

Had I simply painted this model black first, that would not happen. 


Here's an extreme sample of scuffing down to 'bare metal'. 








You can see the paint depth on the edges of that major rip. 
That kind of severity cannot be achieved by drybrushing over the top coats. 
It has to be ripped, chipped and gouged away


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## starmanmm (Mar 19, 2000)

I figured that the grey automotive primer would do the same job as the black? I agree that black is more deep.... color wise... but the grey primer I figure would also create an even color reflectivity back to you once the base color has been applied?

Ah....... what do I know? I make it up half the time?


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

Yeah, gray gives a flat tonality across the model. Doing the black/white variant adds underlying tonality if you don't bury it w/ the top layers. Which can be good or bad depending on subject matter. 

If done right, a base black with a light white overcoat yields a full grayscale tonality. Essentially, 0-128 in an 8-bit analogy. Whereas a single gray pass yields mid-tones, maybe a 30-90 range. If you go heavy on the top colors, it doesn't matter at all. 

If the top colors are lightly done, the blacks crush the color down and the white punches the color up, leaving the mid-ranges the same as the true paint color itself -right where it should be. Whereas a solid gray model simply yields monotones, requiring washes to punch and crush the colors.

Same thing but different, I guess. Like scraping away rather than dry-brushing on.

It could well be the cyano-acrylate talking. :freak:

:wave:


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## starmanmm (Mar 19, 2000)

Now you and others have talked about some book... referance material that gives you the ship ideas.... what is the name of this book.

Would be interested in checking it out.


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

Would that be the Franz Joseph Star Fleet Tech Manual? 
I'm trying to think if I've referred to another at all...
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Star_Trek_Star_Fleet_Technical_Manual

And here is the 18" blow up all four of FJ's ship, now with a Cargo pod for the tug!
This sheet is somewhere in the 45" range, so print or clip it and you'll have all four ships scaled to AMT's 18" 1701 for reference.

The book has changed covers w/ various editions, but this is _the_ book to have when it comes to TOS. You don't get more OG than this. I've had one version or another all my life and I rec. having one on hand for minutia such as I am using it for now. More schematics, procedures, tech breakdowns and other info than you can shake an stick at.

*NEWS:* Pompeii and Arista got their factory coats last night. Today will be gloss passes and I may get the decals on tonight.

Also: I've found a tube near-perfect for the cargo pod. The exact scale of the cargo pod is 40x200m, which translates to 2.81x13". The tube I have is 2.75", so wrapping a layer of styrene over it will add the bulk needed and eliminate the cardboard-roll-seam that I will not be able to get rid of otherwise. I cut it to 12" long as the endcaps on the cargo pod are rounded and 1/2" depth at each end. I have no clue how I will duplicate them yet!!! Help!


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## WarpCore Breach (Apr 27, 2005)

I checked out the measurements of the SFSM cargo pod that I have which used to be available once, back in the day.

Diameter is 2 1/4", length 12 5/8 inches. It's actually a bit too small to be used with the 18" ships!!!! No scale was ever stated with this kit; I assumed it would work with the 18" ships. Well, I guess it still will.


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

If I can find a 3" plastic tube, I will use that instead to save on the finishing time for the cardboard tube I have now. That one you've got is a little shy in all three dimensions. Do you have a pic posted somewhere? I'm specifically interested in the end caps since I have no clue how I'm going to do those yet.

I'm closing in on the finish line very fast now!
Here are two of the quickest updates I've done yet... 

*Status Report 10 Pre-Gloss Review 1.5 min*





*Status Report 11 Precals 2.5 min*


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## WarpCore Breach (Apr 27, 2005)

No picture posted as of yet. I never finished that particular project... I had the same trouble with the Tug pylons you did but put it aside. Also, the entire pod needs to be reinforced much more than it is currently as the plastic is very thin - too thin to support any weight, maybe not even itself! However, I will pull out the Pod out and get some pictures of the pod cap.


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

*Pompeii Pt4 Decal the Dorsal & Saucer 4.5 min*





Towards the end I rest the engine against a brace. This act dented the gloss job and distorted a straight-red-line decal. 

I'm still learning decal tricks on this one and getting good about applying what I've learned already.

There is at least one more session on the decals. I had to give them a few hours to weld.


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

*Pompeii pt5 Decal Saucer Top 5 min*





*Aristarchus pt6 Underside Decals 4.5 min*





*Aristarchus pt7 Decaling the Saucer Top 4.5 min*





*Status Report 12: Tag Teaming it 6 min*





One blemish did occur to Arista... The last 's' across it's name had some strange pinkish coloring going on. I attempted to lift the letter off after it was well on it's way to sealing under the solvaset. Instead, all I did was chunk up the gloss surface down to the color layer. 

Like I said, Solvaset *welds* the decals on. The only solution was to simply cut a new 's' and laid that over the old one -which despite gouging the paint did not rip off (but it did rip up). The coloration is still there, but not evident from a few feet away.

With all the major decals done on both ships, all that's left is to give them both some final passes to fill in what's missing -mostly the rim and bridge windows, with some more added for flavor.

At the veyr least, I'll have one more post before their top gloss and matte coats. In case I get crackling, I want the pristine surfaces recorded for posterity.


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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

Model Man said:


> If I can find a 3" plastic tube, I will use that instead to save on the finishing time for the cardboard tube I have now.


Think plumbing supply. Something in PVC, perhaps.


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

Captain April said:


> Think plumbing supply. Something in PVC, perhaps.


That's the basic idea now. But for reasons explained in the update, I'm not doing the cargo module for this build. I will do another Tug down the road and that will get the pod.

A couple last touches and these are done.

*Status Report 13 Matte passes and Review 4.5 min*


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## Maritain (Jan 16, 2008)

Hey Model Man

I really like your Aristarchus I think it looks great. If your not going to put a cargo container on it, how about a weapons package? I think that design would work great for a destroyer. 

Look forward to more.


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

Thanks for the mentions, folks.

With Pompeii finished, I tried some experimental surgery that has been a success! The operation was to configure some heavy rigging mounts in the saucer going through the beidge and sensor dome on the bottom. XActo blades, dremel slicing, magnets and mayhem.

*Pompeii pt 06A The Magnet Rig 4.5 min*





*Pompeii pt 06B Rig Review 2 min*





In other news, I've cut and painted the tug pad. I should have built it concurrently with the ship, rather than thinking I could simply slap it on in the end... 

More to come.


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## Griffworks (Jun 24, 2002)

Nice! I wasn't really liking the video uploading, but have gotten used to it. I like the work you've done on these. Thanks for sharing!


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

Vid has it's good and bad. The bad is the lost instant-photo-gratification on opening a thread. 

I've tried to keep the vids shorter for the attention span, hat's why I post the time so one knows what one's getting into. 

The thousands of WiP pix I've taken over the last two years finally became too tedious for me. Details were getting lost in between pictures. Ideas were not as coherent. One minute of vid covers hundreds of possible photo ops and hours of writing. Every angle is covered and having that '3d' view of a model in progress is more intuitive. I'm hoping some of the heavies of our hobby will do something similar sometime. Even just sit down and jaw about their process. This hobby is all about process really.

I'll still do photosessions of the finished work, but as for progress, unlikely. And, as I get some nice builds rigged for video at long last (and upgrade my greenscreen), I will be posting raw footage for folks to use if they want to play around with visual effects. I will also be doing rudimentary vfx "how-to's" , and "How-not-to's"


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

This is it. The last of the ships! Four up. Four down.

Aristarchus finished yesterday. That is to say, I ran out of paint for the tow pad and it also requires a particular technique to seal it on; then it's done. Hanging around the workbench has damaged the finish in a few short days. I have to get these both hanging out of danger. So there's a little more work on Arista down the road.

Pompeii is the first full mounting rig I've installed post-completion; and the second of all my models so far. Additionally, this installation is a test case for future builds of this particular kit. I have to wait some time for the glue to cure before I shoot the greenscreen wrap up on it, but Arista's wrap will upload soon.

*Pompeii pt7 Constructing the Rig 3.5 min*





*Pompeii pt8 The Final Piece. 1.5 min*


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

Done!

*Aristarchus Wrap 4 min*





*Pompeii Wrap 3 min*





*Destroyer Design 4.5 min*




This one briefly muses on design as relates to combat and the wisdom of sticking sensitive engine areas on your broadsides or giving them the least profile possible.

I'll post a last couple pix and that will be it for these builds.


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

And now for what you've all been hating me for not posting one single one of yet, PHOTOS!!! :hat:

*Top L-R:* *Defiant,* Constitution, K-7
*Republic, Pompeii, Aristarchus*, Excalibur








*Play all 25 of the Group Status Reports*




*Review the Playlist*
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=10CAB360607F2376


*NCC-1371 USS Republic*








*Play All 20 videos in the series:*




*Review the Playlist:* 
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=A0E21C318D936931


*NCC-3805 USS Aristarchus*








*Play All 9 videos in the series:*




*Review the Playlist:* 
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=E5524DD2C64C109C


*NCC-506 USS Pompeii*








*Play All 10 videos in the series:*




*Review the Playlist:* 
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=04A08612FD961BC3


*NCC-1764 USS Defiant*








*Play All 12 videos in the series:*




*Review the Playlist:* 
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=C9DCF961634FB79A










Another round of photos is warranted.

If I'm counting right, that's 76 vids for these four builds @ over ~10 weeks. I dare not count the play time! lol


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## WarpCore Breach (Apr 27, 2005)

Thanks for the pics! Your ships look great! :thumbsup:

I'm still working on getting my initial batch of ships ready but I will not have a whole lot of time available this week. 

Thanks for the inspiration and push to get more done! LOL! :woohoo:


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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

I think some of those helmsmen need to be put on report...


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## Nova Designs (Oct 10, 2000)

Good job on finishing your kits! you definitely put in a olympian effort!


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## slingshot392 (Nov 27, 2008)

Great models there! They look great all hanging from the ceiling. Do you have any pictures of the Defiant glowing? Unless you decided not to paint it like that and I just missed it.

I had been planning on painting one of my 1/1000 Enterprises like the defiant and completely covered with glow in the dark paint, I just got some off of the Internet so I’m working on finishing that up now.

I just finished watching the Star Trek movie Of Gods And Men, now I need to buy some more of the Enterprises and the D7’s as they had such great color schemes in their alternate universe.


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

Thanks for the good words, guys. Yeah, my ceiling is beginning to look like that Blues Brothers police car pile up! I don't know where my 350 thinks it's going to go...

Sling- The glow paint I had on hand proved to be very weak in terms of brightness, duration and solubility (for the airbrush). I'm now looking at stuff from this guy, but haven't gotten any yet.
http://stores.shop.ebay.com/READY-SET-GLO/Store-home.html

After 10 weeks of continuous burn on these four builds, I'm taking some R&R on Tantalus Colony under the care of that nice Doctor Adams.


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## idman (Apr 11, 2004)

Model Man said:


> After 10 weeks of continuous burn on these four builds, I'm taking some R&R on Tantalus Colony under the care of that nice Doctor Adams.



Just don't let him get you to sit in his favorite chair (HE LOVES HIS WORK)


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## slingshot392 (Nov 27, 2008)

That looks like some good paint at a good price. I did some research and what they put in it is supposed to be very good, much better than the zinc based paints found at the box stores and crafts stores. I was leery of their claims and found an independent site that did a review and there really was a big difference between the paints. I just got mine in the mail from the link below (wish I would have known about the link on ebay first! Better price.) and I put it in the sun for a little while and then took it into a dark room, it was like a glow stick. Apparently it works best with between two and four light coats. The green glows the longest, blues were less and other colors significantly less. If I get good results, I’ll try painting windows and lights and engines with it on another model.

http://glowinc.com/

That site also has a forum.

http://www.glowforum.com/

I really enjoyed your videos and found them very helpful, hope you continue with them in the future. I like that you built the 18in. models without spending a fortune on aftermarket items, they look great and from the seal and the way they are. What did you use to hang them with (fishing line, wire, ect.) and what points to do and the models from?


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

I'm glad I waited as I want to do the glow effect nice. 

I've seen the glowinc site before, but had lost track of it. There's another 'major' one out there, but it also eludes me. With that ebay price, don't forget to factor shipping as that is the 'real' cost.

Thanks for the compliments. I'll vid all my models from ehre on out as it is far easier than the hundreds of pix and thousands of words I used to do at my main site:
www.twinlitworlds.com/modelwerx

Hanging them was standard fishing line. I think it's 8lb test. It might be 6lb. Where possible, I prefer to loop fishing line, but the balance on this model, as you likely know, is NG for that. 

So I loaded a pinvise with a drillbit about as big as the fishing line and popped a tiny hole just behind the bridge's turbolift. I slipped the line in there w/ a drop of CA to hold it. 

From there, it is all one line. That goes up to the ceiling hook, back down to loop around one nacelle, back up, then down again where it is tied off on the other nacelle. It's not the best solution, but it works.


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## slingshot392 (Nov 27, 2008)

Inventive solution for hanging them, I will have to remember that.

I didn’t run across one other major site when I was researching the paints and forgot to bookmark it, of course I can’t find it again! The site I got mine from has a solvent based paint and a water based paint, I just went with the water based as I tend to brush paint more lately. Living in Minnesota, it seems it’s either to cold or two hot to paint outside. I will post some pictures when I get mine done.

Nice site! One other tip I’ve found for removing paint ( or at least most I’ve tried) as well as chrome and the clear undercoat is Simple Green. One downside is it is slower and could take a couple days, the positive side is it’s pretty much nontoxic. Just make sure to really rinse the parts of afterwards as its kind of soapy.


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