# Polar Lights LIVES!



## tlowe (Oct 11, 2005)

Hey Polar Lights fans: check out www.autoworldslotcars.com for some big news! I attained the rights to my beloved brand! Time to Rock and Roll again. Star Trek license is almost signed!

Tom Lowe


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## bigdaddydaveh (Jul 20, 2007)

Best wishes and good luck Tom!


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## BowmanArt (Apr 17, 2007)

:woohoo:


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## TOS Maniac (Jun 26, 2006)

God bless you, Tom. It's people like you that the world needs more of. Best of luck to you , and I for one plan to back up that sentiment with plenty of purchase$ when I see those magic brands on the shelves again.
Thank you, Sir. You've made my whole month!
Rich Cirivilleri (TOS Maniac)


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## Opus Penguin (Apr 19, 2004)

This is great news! I hope to see the refit and Jupiter 2 re-released again. However, I doubt this means we'll see new kits like the proposed 1/350 Enterprise or 1/350 K'tinga. I wish those had gotten released before Polar Lights went under.


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## BlackbirdCD (Oct 31, 2003)

Nice move, Tom. Looking forward to seeing what you come up with.


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## Steve CultTVman Iverson (Jan 1, 1970)

Great to hear! Can't have too many Trek kits, or other Sci-Fi, Monsters and such! Start digging through the old toolings!

Steve


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

Great news, Tom!

If you're about to sign a new Trek license, it's very likely that due to the new movie we'll at least get a pre-TOS Enterprise 1701.

I'm going to keep my fingers crossed extra hard now that the new movie's producers don't mess with the basic design we saw, if not in the series then in The Cage.

Then maybe some Enterprising guys could come up with accuratizing parts! 

In the event it turns out that way, let me be the first to vote that the new movie Enterprise be in 1/350th scale!


But once again let me stop to say, congratulations! :thumbsup:


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## Sparky (Feb 21, 2004)

So excited, I'm speechless (good thing I can still type :woohoo

My checkbook stands ready to reward your efforts to return all
the great kits back to the shelves!!! A 1/350 TOS Enterprise is 
definitely at the top of my want list.


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## Raist3001 (Oct 23, 2003)

This is awesome news!!


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## Styrofoam_Guy (May 4, 2004)

I sure hope this mean new 1/350 Star Trek kits


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

Has anybody ever compiled a list of what molds still exist for AMT?

Especially the older ones like the Leif Erickson, Trek K-7 space station, the Exploration Set, etc?

I know there have been at least a couple of people in the know from the old AMT company who have discussed this before, but no matter how many searches I do I'm not finding anything near a comprehensive list of what still actually exists and survives today. (What did and didn't survive the train wreck, for example, isn't necessarilly well listed. And even if an old mold survived that incident, there is no telling if it's still in AMT's possession or usable.)

Any chance of your publishing such a list, Tom?

It would nice to know what is doable without major retooling, even if you eventually decide a particular model is worth it.

It would be comforting to know what has survived the decades. 

If you decide that's too much info to let out publicly, though, I'd understand that as well.


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## BlackbirdCD (Oct 31, 2003)

Chuck_P.R. said:


> Has anybody ever compiled a list of what molds still exist for AMT?
> 
> Especially the older ones like the Leif Erickson, Trek K-7 space station, the Exploration Set, etc?


Unless the Leif Erickson/UFO Mystery Ship molds are stored in that infamous warehouse in Iowa, then they're gone. I hit up the folks at RC2 about repopping this thing four years ago and they didn't have any idea what I was talking about. I had to send them scans from the internet on the spaceship model, its product number, etc. Even then they never could locate the molds.


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## Roguepink (Sep 18, 2003)

This is like table tennis with product brands. Lowe starts Playing Mantis, revives Johnny Lightning, creates Polar Lights. Sell it all to RC/2 who owns AMT and American Muscle, acquiring the Playing Mantis brands. Lowe starts Round 2, and buys back the former Playing Mantis brands PLUS the RC/2 brands.

I would settle for something stable and predictable, something that can establish some market clout to bargain for better licensing and production costs.

Best of luck, Tom, and I hope for a long LONG time to come.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

BlackbirdCD said:


> Unless the Leif Erickson/UFO Mystery Ship molds are stored in that infamous warehouse in Iowa, then they're gone. I hit up the folks at RC2 about repopping this thing four years ago and they didn't have any idea what I was talking about. I had to send them scans from the internet on the spaceship model, its product number, etc. Even then they never could locate the molds.


Don't know what warehouse in Iowa you're talking about...

But didn't AMT, Aurora, and MPC sometimes share molds back and forth for production?

Maybe some stuff that hasn't been seen for a long time might reside in an MPC vault somewhere?

I know, the chances are slim to none. 

I'm grasping at straws, but I'm still hoping against hope to eventually see a good list posted.


Now what's this warehouse you're talking about, or are you just yanking my chain?


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## uss_columbia (Jul 15, 2003)

Great news!


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## modelgeek (Jul 14, 2005)

Thank You Tom Lowe!!!!!!!!!! This is too freaking cool!! ...Jeff


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## Griffworks (Jun 24, 2002)

Great news, Mr. Lowe! Thanks for sharing it. 

It's quite fortuitous for me, as I was trying to scrounge up as many of the PL TOS 1701 kits as I could for my oldest son's Scouts. I want to do a Make & Take with them with regards to modeling, see if I can get a few of them hooked. I figure that the TOS 1701 kit is easy enough to put together, yet still something of a challenge. I realize it might be a year or so before we see these kits re-released, but at least they'll be coming! And I can replace those kits I'll use for the M&T.


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## JGG1701 (Nov 9, 2004)

Most excellant news!:woohoo::thumbsup::woohoo:


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## The Trekmodeler (Jul 21, 2005)

:woohoo::woohoo:


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## Larva (Jun 8, 2005)

Now that's some pretty exciting news!

- Eric


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## Just Plain Al (Sep 7, 1999)

I am beside myself with excitement! (and looking over at myself I find I'm a good looking fellow)

Best of luck Tom, again.


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## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

Oh... my.... GOD ! Tom Lowe is my hero ! Whoopeeee !


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

Opus Penguin said:


> This is great news! I hope to see the refit and Jupiter 2 re-released again. However, I doubt this means we'll see new kits like the proposed 1/350 Enterprise or 1/350 K'tinga. I wish those had gotten released before Polar Lights went under.



Me too! The 1701A is lonely without that K'Tinga!


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Bless ya Tom! Welcome back.

I'm sure I'm not the only one to encourage you to continue on with the line of Trek models PL was only just beginning, with Mr Sasser and Mr Metzner along for the flight.

As I recall, a 1/350 K'tinga, a 1/1000 refit, and a 1/350 TOS E were the next batch in planning? Please do carry on!


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

^^ Ditto what he said. 

Thanks, Tom!


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## ClubTepes (Jul 31, 2002)

Tom,

Welcome back.

I sincerly hope you recognize that the most wanted Trek kit is a 1/350 TOS Enterprise. And that its just not about a large model kit, but of a accurate, large model kit.

If you have any doubts, there are hundreds of posts here atesting to that fact.

Oh and BTW, please don't sell again without offering it to us first.

Will Dave be coming back?

Obviously, Dave is with Mobieous, but perhaps you can share him.
Polar Lights can't really be Polar Lights again without him.

Don't use any AMT people on the Trek stuff, they don't know (or don't care) about what the real fans (the people who bought about 6 copies of each Trek kit) really want.


Also, ditto on getting people like Thomas Sasser and Gary Kerr involved in any Trek venture. They will gaurantee accuracy in any Trek subject.


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## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

Wow, this is surprising and welcome news. Best of luck!

:thumbsup:


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## jheilman (Aug 30, 2001)




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## WarpCore Breach (Apr 27, 2005)

Mr. Lowe, this is exciting news indeed! :woohoo:

I am looking forward to hearing what you are going to be able to accomplish in bringing to our hobby! Thanks! :thumbsup:


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## spacecraft guy (Aug 16, 2003)

This is really great news! Best of luck! 

Hope along with new Trek kits, we will see other sci-fi kits like the
Space:1999 Eagle Transporter see the light of day again. A larger scale Eagle would be great, along with accurate models of the Thunderbirds craft.


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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

Ain't final paybacks grand? A bunch of greedy bastards buy up a couple of model companies in order to strip mine the clientele for money, promptly proceed to run the works into a ditch, and wind up having to sell the works back to the guy they bought out in the first place.

I love happy endings, especially when it results in corporate leeches being shown the door.

:woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:


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## xr4sam (Dec 9, 1999)

I need a cigarette--And I don't smoke! 

Man, this is awesome news. Come to Wonderfest, and I don't think you'll be able to buy yourself a drink, once everybody realizes who you are, Tom!:woohoo:

So, um, any idea when we'll see the beloved PL ovals on the shelves again?

Oh, and, um, BIG SPOCK!!! BIG SPOCK!!!


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## robiwon (Oct 20, 2006)

This is indeed great news! I doubt we will see a re-release of the J2 as Moebius now owns the rights to Lost In Space.


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## Guy Schlicter (May 3, 2004)

I hope to see a reissue of the 1/1000 Original USS Enterprise.I had read that Polar Lights had plans to do a 1/1000 Refit USS Enterprise.I how they will do it as well.Hopefully all Star Trek kits that Polar Lights considered before will once again have a chance at being made.Guy S.


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

Great news, Tom! 
And it's nice to see the good ol' AW brand again!


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## Ruckdog (Jan 17, 2006)

Thanks for the good news, Mr. Lowe! I would sure like to see those PL Star Trek kits on shelves again.


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## Edge (Sep 5, 2003)

Congratulations Mr. Lowe! Great news indeed.

Edge


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## Nova Designs (Oct 10, 2000)

OMG I can't believe this is for real! That is such great news! Congrats Tom, good job!


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## Nighteagle2001 (Jan 11, 2001)

Thank You sooo much!!!!!:woohoo::thumbsup::dude:


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## Trekmanscott (Oct 4, 2002)

If they do a 1/100 scale refit they would have licence to print money, becuse I would probably buy a case of them. I mean I built 10 conversions and 3 Enterprises. One can imagine what could be done with 1/1000 Refit:woohoo::dude::thumbsup:


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## Opus Penguin (Apr 19, 2004)

robiwon said:


> This is indeed great news! I doubt we will see a re-release of the J2 as Moebius now owns the rights to Lost In Space.


Then I sure hope Moebius comes out with a bigger 18" version!!!


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## Opus Penguin (Apr 19, 2004)

Guy Schlicter said:


> I had read that Polar Lights had plans to do a 1/1000 Refit USS Enterprise.


I forgot about that and hope they do as well!!


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

spacecraft guy said:


> This is really great news! Best of luck!
> 
> Hope along with new Trek kits, we will see other sci-fi kits like the
> Space:1999 Eagle Transporter see the light of day again. A larger scale Eagle would be great, along with accurate models of the Thunderbirds craft.



A hell of a lot of people want a bigger 1999 Eagle in plastic, including me!


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

ClubTepes said:


> Tom,
> 
> Welcome back.
> 
> ...




There's many who want the 1/350 K'Tinga too!


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## irishtrek (Sep 17, 2005)

But will he improve the AMT/ERTL Trek molds? I certanly hope so.


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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

SUNGOD said:


> There's many who want the 1/350 K'Tinga too!


Who is it that's been doing those kits that are recasts from the original filming miniature?

Get one of those and the heavy lifting is already done.


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## Admiral Nelson (Feb 28, 2002)

This reminds me of the guy who was in a coma for 5 years, wakes up and his boss calls telling him to get back to work. Slow down folks. Tom knows what we want and he'll do what he can when he can. Congrats, Tom.:thumbsup:


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Captain April said:


> Who is it that's been doing those kits that are recasts from the original filming miniature?
> 
> Get one of those and the heavy lifting is already done.


Captain Cardboard did a recast of the filming mini of the TV series D-7, not the K'Tinga.

The 1/350 K'Tinga by REL is from scratch.


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## Opus Penguin (Apr 19, 2004)

I think we should all not get our hopes up until we hear something more definite. The license has not even been procured yet, and any future plans may just be re-relaesing some Star Trek kits. New ones being produced may be a moot point. I, for one, wish we could hear more on what the plans are for the future.


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## El Gato (Jul 15, 2000)

I need a emoticon that's crying for joy. :,) This is great news!

:woohoo:


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## portland182 (Jul 19, 2003)

Welcome back Tom!
We all missed you.
Good luck with whatever great surprises you have for us...
Thanks for keeping the direct with the customers communications habit going.

Trek licence = Trek movie kits????

Jim


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## spindrift (Apr 16, 2005)

Tom-
May I suggest the FIRST TWO Star Trek releases you do can be Amt "classics"- the Uss Enterprise in the original 1966 painted art box and the Klingon Cruiser 1968 with photo art. These are the larger:hat: rectangular boxes. Please include the original frosted triangular display bases AND lighting kits if you can replicate them using altered molds- if not just release them as current tooling that you have but with retro boxes!
Gary


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## irishtrek (Sep 17, 2005)

We've all stated what we would like to see from Tom but I'm pretty sure the first Trek kits will be reissues of the current molds and as people buy those kits Tom just may have the funds too get some of those molds upgraded some where down the line as well as new molds.


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## xr4sam (Dec 9, 1999)

I'd be happy if the Gabe Koerner Enterprise got released as a kit. But, I'm kinda contrary that way!

So, Tom, have we told you how much we love you?

Group hug!


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## Garbaron (Apr 23, 2004)

Thats indeed wonderful news! 

Hope to see some abandoned projects getting picked up again and old models being re issued.


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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

I'm just glad we'll no longer have to choose between thinking of AMT as either "the enemy" or "a bunch of mindless dolts who'll be first up against the wall when the revolution comes."

Especially since it appears that the revolution has already come.

_Vive la resistance'!_


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## razorwyre1 (Jan 28, 2004)

thank you mr. lowe, and congratulations. 
you are certainly one shrewd businessman!


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## Rogue1 (Jan 3, 2000)

*Wow!*

Wow this is great news! Congrats on the next chapter Mr. Lowe.

I haven't been around here much since D-Day, but it's starting to look like the good ol' days in here again.  Optimistic.

OK, since everyone is throwing ideas into the hat, here's mine.

I would love to see some old time Flash Gordon style ships come out. I've always loved the look of them and was surprised I never saw a plastic kit released.

Good luck and glad to you back.


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

Rogue1 said:


> Wow this is great news! Congrats on the next chapter Mr. Lowe.
> 
> I haven't been around here much since D-Day, but it's starting to look like the good ol' days in here again.  Optimistic.
> 
> ...




Me too! The rocket ships from the 1930's F. Gordon serials seem to have a large following


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## Seaview (Feb 18, 2004)

Rogue1 & Sungod (can we call you Ra?),
Although these are a little pricey, these kits just might foot the bill for your desires for the old movie serial rockets: http://www.cshobbies.com/catalog/c12_p1.html
Just looking at them, I can hear the drone of the propellers spinning!


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## sbaxter (Jan 8, 2002)

Man ... Forget to drop by this board for a day or two and look what happens!

Can't wait to see how this develops. And if that 1/350th K'Tinga does come to pass, I shall acquire at least two. I'm just sayin'.

Qapla'

SSB


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## lunadude (Oct 21, 2006)

WOW. Congratulations and good luck. :thumbsup:

I look forward to giving you my money.


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## Captain America (Sep 9, 2002)

*Wah-hoooo!!!*

Mr. Lowe, Congratulations & WELCOME BACK!:woohoo:
May good fortune attend you all!

• If you repop the original 18" OS Enterprise, could you update the decal sheet, please?

• When you guys get back underway and the money is flowing in in buckets, would it be possible to scale DOWN the 1/350 Refit to the size of the ERTL one and have it supplant the old one in your lineup? 

I'd imagine that you will likely sell more of the smaller refit due TO the more convenient size as opposed to the 350 refit. (Not saying the BIG refit is bad...It's a wonderfully detailed kit...but, IMHO, it's just too dang BIG!)

This MIGHT seem to be overkill, but the two sizes should cover the bulk of the fans of this ship...and probably would help sales. Some modellers might be more willing to cough up $25 or so for a Refit that would be easier to fit in their rooms(as opposed to the $50 for the big one), but you would STILL have the top end of the market covered by the BIG 'UN (Which the experts here would likely be picking up by the case...)

Be well.
Greg


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

Captain America said:


> Mr. Lowe, Congratulations & WELCOME BACK!:woohoo:
> May good fortune attend you all!
> 
> • If you repop the original 18" OS Enterprise, could you update the decal sheet, please?
> ...




There's already a smaller refit by Bandai! I don't think the 1/350 refit is too big at all and the bigger the model the more detail they can cram in to it.


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

Seaview said:


> Rogue1 & Sungod (can we call you Ra?),
> Although these are a little pricey, these kits just might foot the bill for your desires for the old movie serial rockets: http://www.cshobbies.com/catalog/c12_p1.html
> Just looking at them, I can hear the drone of the propellers spinning!



Thanks for those pics but I've already got the resin F.Gordon ship. It's ok but there'd be no substitute for a decent plastic kit.


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## charonjr (Mar 27, 2000)

I'd love to see the 1/350 NX-01 re-issued with corrected warp engine alignment (like the 1/1000), as well as the their re-design as seen in later seasons.


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## Mr. Wabac (Nov 9, 2002)

Tom:

Glad to see you have taken the reins back from the corporate dunces, and actually expanded the empire in the process. I can't believe some of the nonsense that passes for business.

Would love to see some more of the AMT truck kits see the light of day (hey I dabble in Studio Scale, so this is a Sci-Fi topic).

I would also love to see the planned Star Trek line come back. Aside from the K'Tinga, the original "E" has really been a bridesmaid for too many years, with nothing produced in styrene that does her justice.

The idea of a reissue of the Exploration Set from Star Trek has some nostalgia value and would seem to be a quick and dirty option. I know it's not accurate, but I don't know whether a new version is in order; items like the Art Asylum Phaser I/II would be hard to top and are more functional regardless.

If I was looking for a Star Trek property that has suffered the most it has to be the original shuttlecraft; especially considering it was AMT that backed this project - how could they screw it up so badly. A larger and accurate shuttlecraft would be an awesome choice for the new Polar Lights !


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Seaview said:


> Rogue1 & Sungod (can we call you Ra?),
> Although these are a little pricey, these kits just might foot the bill for your desires for the old movie serial rockets: http://www.cshobbies.com/catalog/c12_p1.html
> Just looking at them, I can hear the drone of the propellers spinning!


"Fit" the bill.
"Foot" the bill means "to pay for."


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## RMBurnett (Jan 12, 2005)

*What to bring back...*

Folks,

As far as new Polar Lights (ERTL, MPC, whatever) kits are concerned, please, anyone involved, use one criteria only...

Come out of the gate with guns blazing and give us the biggest-selling kit you can, solidifying your own position that such kits are a great idea. Unfortunately, the market for TREK kits simply isn't that big, so niche items certainly aren't the way to go as part of any initial release.

An original kit, one never before offered, seems prudent. In my mind, the TOS E in a 1/350 scale, is really the only way to go. You can tie it in to the release of the new film, which is always a plus as far as retailers are concerned, then piggy-back other releases off its initial success.

Heck, you could probably even just duplicate the electronics from the MR release for a deluxe version of the kit...!

Also, larger scales will make the kits stand out from the toy offerings from Art Asylum and Playmates.

Other kits I think should be initially considered:

1/350 K'Tinga
1/350 Reliant
1/350 D7
1/350 Romulan BOP
1/350 Klingon BOP

These are all "Classic" kits which have never lived in a proper scale with one another. They should also be "branded" as such, as if part of a set (gotta' have 'em all).

I'm sure there will be studio pressure to also initially release an adversary kit from the new film. Problem with this, if the adversary design blows, or the ship doesn't play a pivotal "hero" role, the design never becomes iconic, and modelers simply don't care about it, then you're stuck with a non-starter. Use the example of the Kazon Torpedo and the Scorpion fighter to prove your point. 

Finally, DO NOT re-pop the Exploration Set until AFTER we've been given the Shuttlecraft and the K7. There's already so many correctly-sized prop and toy replicas of that set, those smaller models simply wouldn't sell and again you'd be faced with the prospect of losing money.

What Bandai did with their license was a perfect example. I'm sure they were forced by Paramount to focus on certain subjects as part of their deal. Unfortunately, the studio has absolutely no understanding at all of the marketplace. Witness: Refit - Enterprise E - NX-01 Enterprise - Voyager - End of product line. The E, the NX-01 and the Voyager are simply not beloved or iconic designs. Their appeal is limited at best (although I do like the EE...sort of).

If Bandai had done REFIT - K'TINGA - RELIANT - BIRD OF PREY - EXCELSIOR - KRONOS ONE - ENT. D...well...they might still be making even more of their Trek Kits.

IMHO.


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## Lou Dalmaso (Jul 13, 2004)

^^I swear the first 3 times I read your post, I thought you were saying "350 scale K-7"

that, my friend is a lot of plastic!:woohoo:


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## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

tlowe said:


> Hey Polar Lights fans: check out www.autoworldslotcars.com for some big news! I attained the rights to my beloved brand! Time to Rock and Roll again. Star Trek license is almost signed!
> 
> Tom Lowe


This is seriously fantastic news.! :woohoo: :thumbsup:


Uh, is it too soon to start compiling kit wish lists?


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## veedubb67 (Jul 11, 2003)

Warped9 said:


> Uh, is it too soon to start compiling kit wish lists?


Why not? Everyone else has! 

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=213285


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## Vaderman (Nov 2, 2002)

I would love to see these things as well, but let's also keep in mind...will local hobby shops want to stock these kits? They had a hard enough time getting them off the shelves the first time and most local HS are not that big into sci-fi kits.

Scott


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## PixelMagic (Aug 25, 2004)

Vaderman said:


> I would love to see these things as well, but let's also keep in mind...will local hobby shops want to stock these kits? They had a hard enough time getting them off the shelves the first time and most local HS are not that big into sci-fi kits.
> 
> Scott


It's true. Sometimes I think my HS only stocks scifi kits for me personally. I'm the only one how buys them. Heh. Just yesterday, I bought a Maquis Raider from them. The owner informed me that it had been sitting on the shelf for 13 years waiting for someone to buy it.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

No. More. Scorpions.

Read the wish lists. Pick out the most requested models.

If you think "Hey, this little once-seen ship might be a good one to kit," come here and ask us before you spend the money on it. If enough of us say "yeah, that'd be cool!" you might have something there. If we all go "What? Where the heck was THAT from? No way!" - save your money and drop that project like a hot tribble.


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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

Lou Dalmaso said:


> ^^I swear the first 3 times I read your post, I thought you were saying "350 scale K-7"
> 
> that, my friend is a lot of plastic!:woohoo:


The thing could double as a combination gazebo/wild bird feeder.


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

Some kits should be left to the garage kit boys, in my opinion. One of those would be the _Botany Bay_, with a fine example seen elsewhere on this forum, of course. If I saw that in styrene, I'd doubt the business sense of the manufacturer. That subject just wouldn't move enough units.

I could be wrong, since I don't know the business.


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## Lou Dalmaso (Jul 13, 2004)

I may be in the minority, but I'm dying to see what the new movie Enterprise would look like in styrene! in 350 scale! with lights! 

Sure, there's an element of keeping the design a secret, but I think it would be a terrific buzz generator to have a kit out shortly before the movie opens.

unless, of course, the design just sucks horribly.

not knowing the story or having seen a script, it's hard to speculate whether what has been shown in the teaser or hinted at on boards is the final "now and forever" design, or some temporary, "just for one or two scenes in this movie in an alternate timeline" version. 

it's possible , I suppose, that "the powers that be" would not want the new PL to release a classic Enterprise kit until after the movie, just in case it would make whatever they've come up with look bad by comparison or just create too much casual consumer confusion.


my two quatloos


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## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

There are some kits I truly want and there are others I'd like if they came to pass, but it wouldn't kill me if they didn't happen.

*1/350 scale:*
- TOS _Enterprise_

*1/600 scale* (or thereabouts):
- TOS _Enterprise_ (if a 1/350 isn't in the cards)
- Klingon D7
- TOS Romulan Bird Of Prey
- TMP refit _Enterprise_
- K'tinga Battlecruiser

*1/24 scale:*
- TOS _Galileo _ shuttlecraft

And for those that would be fun, but I'll live if not:
- 1/6 TOS Kirk in command chair
- 1/6 TOS Spock
- 1/24 TOS _E_ Bridge (maybe with alternate parts for a Cage era version)


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## TOS Maniac (Jun 26, 2006)

1/24 would be a little small for a Galileo. I'd prefer at least 1/18


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## TOS Maniac (Jun 26, 2006)

1/600 TOS Enterprise? and refit? with Polar Lights accuracy? 
WOW! now that would literally sell like hotcakes. great suggestion!


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## justinleighty (Jan 13, 2003)

Since everybody else is chiming in, here I go.

In the 1/350 Line, the kit I'm interested in is the TOS Enterprise

I'd like to see the 1/1000 line continue with:
Refit/-A Enterprise
TOS Romulan Bird of Prey
New movie Enterprise, if it's significantly different
Maybe a Klingon Bird of Prey

You could also continue into the larger ships, still in 1/1000:
Excelsior (with options for NX, NCC and Enterprise-B versions)
Enterprise C, D and E

In 1/24, I'd like to see a Galileo kit from TOS, a shuttle kit from STV and a Vulcan Shuttle with Warp Sled from ST:TMP.


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## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

TOS Maniac said:


> 1/600 TOS Enterprise? and refit? with Polar Lights accuracy?
> WOW! now that would literally sell like hotcakes. great suggestion!


As much as I'd love a 1/350 TOS _E_ something about 1/600 scale might be more manageable and would be a bit larger than the old AMT kit and be priced in the right range.

As much as I like the PL 1/1000 scale TOS kits I find them rather a bit too small for my tastes.

Actually 1/600 might not be far off the AA toys' size.



TOS Maniac said:


> 1/24 would be a little small for a Galileo. I'd prefer at least 1/18


A 1/24 shuttlecraft would be noticeably over 1ft. long and I think that would be a decent size.


----------



## justinleighty (Jan 13, 2003)

The AA toys are 1/750 (well, the Enterprise E is 1/1500), slightly larger than the Ban-Dai kits (1/850 for the smaller ships, 1/1700 for the Enterprise E) and halfway between the PL 1/1000 line and the AMT movie Enterprise kits. A 1/600 kit would be larger than the AA toys, but not by a huge amount, and would be really close to the old AMT kit size.


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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

I have two questions.

1) Just how well do hotcakes actually sell?

And 2) Who the hell decided that this product would be our standard of measure for relative sales?


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Probably the guy who invented them!


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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

Which brings up another question.

What the hell ARE hotcakes?


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## xr4sam (Dec 9, 1999)

Cake that is served hot?


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## Lou Dalmaso (Jul 13, 2004)

and how come hail doesn't have its own size?

Its always "marble sized" or "quarter sized" or "golf ball sized" 

they never say "oh the hail today was just regular hail-sized hail"


I'm just sayin'


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## BARRYZ28 (Mar 3, 2007)

Not being a real hardcore trek fan, here are the kits I would buy.
1/350 Original Enterprise, the refit looks lonely without her.
1/350 K'Tinga
1/1000 Refit enterprise.

The only reason I bought the both Enterprise NX kits was because of the alternate universe episodes. Love the whole evil universe idea and the different decals plus it tied into the original enterprise design. It gave me a great idea for a diorama.
Never watched deep space 9 but had to watch the episodes where they went back in time and met the crew of the original enterprise, very cool episodes.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

I'd love to see a 1/1000 1701-D with window holes molded thru. It's the only way I'd ever light one, I sure don't wanna drill them out of the Ertl kit!


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## REL (Sep 30, 2005)

I just got back from my local hobby shop and I was discussing these kits being re-released with the owner, he said he's not interested, and that he had to pretty much mark down the one's he had last time to get them to move, so he won't be carrying any of them.

I also talked to the owner of the HobbyTown about 20 miles from here, he still has some of the PL kits in stock...with dust on them. And that he could stock more RC cars in the same shelf space as the Trek kits.

I have no idea what Tom is planning, but it doesn't look like the traditional brick and mortar hobby shops want the Trek kits, as they're a dud for them in the sales dept.

So it might just be an online thing.


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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

There's always Wal-Mart.

And Colpar Hobbies out here always has a good selection of sci-fi kits (even the occasional garage resin kit), so I'd be shocked if they suddenly decided they weren't gonna carry them.


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## REL (Sep 30, 2005)

Walmart doesn't carry model kits or supplies anymore, they canceled them all. It sucks


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## razorwyre1 (Jan 28, 2004)

thanks for the reality check rel. i think we need reminding of that from time to time.
walmart cancelled kits because they didnt sell for them. going online might be the only way to go.

on the other hand, mr. lowe is a marketing genius. who knows what hes got up his sleeve, and im certian he wouldnt have re-started if he hadnt studied the issues and concluded that it was a viable project.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Well, the guy at _my _LHS was excited about the news. I think his exact words were "Oh, thank God!!"

According to Cult's latest newsletter, here's Tom Lowe's list of first releases:

-Speed Racer snap kit - reissue of the Polar Lights model
-Speed Racer glue kit - reissue of the Polar Lights model
-USS Enterprise - reissue of the 18" AMT kit in a copy of the 1967
artwork box
-USS Enterprise Collector's Tin - reissue of the 18" AMT kit in an
embossed tin box with the 1967 art
-USS Enterprise - reissue of the 1:1000 scale Polar Lights kit.


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## Griffworks (Jun 24, 2002)

I've heard of similar stories happening in other parts of the country. However....

The local hobby shops, WallyWorlds - two that I infrequently frequent - and Hobby Lobby couldn't keep anything from the Polar Lights Trek line on the shelves for very long except for the Scorpion Fighter and the Kazon Torpedo. I had to purchase most of my PL 1701 kits from online, get them in trades or consider e-Bay. I was only able to purchase one of each of the 1/1000 Klingon D-7's and TOS 1701 kits at a WallyWorld, picked up one each of the 1/350 NX-01 & Refit kits at Hobby Lobby, along w/one 1/1000 NX-01 and a D-7. I picked up two of the 1701 kits, one D-7 and one NX-01 at the LHS. The rest were online purchases or trades. I don't usually go to HobbyTown USA all that much, but was just there yesterday and he has nothing Trek releated on his shelves. I don't know what the HobbyTown history on Trek is, either. 

Non-PL Trek kits that the LHS has: quite a few of the older Star Wars kits on the shelves (Death Star, three of the gold plated B-Wings, four - now three! - of the Droid Fighter 3-ship sets and some Trek. Two of the AMT 22" Cutaways, two or three KBoP's and two of the more recent ERTL/RC2 Adversary Sets. He's also got a mishmash of other SciFi, Comic and Fantasy kits on the shelves, but is slowly dwindling his stock down to known sellers. 

On the other hand, he's not been able to keep the Revell BSG re-Pop's on the shelves. He said he went thru three different sets of orders for them and now can't get the Vipers from any of his distributors. He's going to order one more case of the Raiders and Basestars and then play it by ear from that point on. 

Hopefully, Mr. Lowe has a good plan for the Trek line and will allow for online orders directly from his company. I believe he allows for this for his current AutoWorld line of diecast cars, tho believe you have to order a case at a time.


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

John P said:


> I'd love to see a 1/1000 1701-D with window holes molded thru. It's the only way I'd ever light one, I sure don't wanna drill them out of the Ertl kit!


John, I think that the biggest issue with those windows is the finishing -- getting the hole shaped right. That task can be avoided by grinding out the window from the backside until the window gets very thin, then lightly sand away the thin window from the back. The hole will maintain the molded-in shape. It's faster and more accurate than drilling.

Unless you knew all that ...


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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

Molding the thing in clear plastic in the first place should be a consideration for later editions (along with rereleasing the clear Ambassador class...hell, how about clear versions of all of 'em?).


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

The few hobbyshops that I deal with anxiously await the return of the Polar Lights kits and the new Moebius and Monarch offerings.


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

Captain April said:


> Molding the thing in clear plastic in the first place should be a consideration for later editions (along with rereleasing the clear Ambassador class...hell, how about clear versions of all of 'em?).


If that were economically feasible, I'd add that it would be quite nifty to mold the outside perfectly smooth, and mold the windows on the inside. They would act as a placement guide for the self-adhesive WindowDummy masks included with the kit. Ehh ... maybe not?


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## REL (Sep 30, 2005)

I wish the hobby shops around here were like the one's in your guys area, all they want to stock here is nascar and tanks, it's depressing, in fact that's what made me get into making stuff myself.


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## bert model maker (Feb 19, 2002)

Tom, Great news ! Do you still have Lost in space rights for the Jupiter 2 and, if so, any chance on a larger version of it ?


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## ClubTepes (Jul 31, 2002)

REL said:


> I just got back from my local hobby shop and I was discussing these kits being re-released with the owner, he said he's not interested, and that he had to pretty much mark down the one's he had last time to get them to move, so he won't be carrying any of them.
> 
> I also talked to the owner of the HobbyTown about 20 miles from here, he still has some of the PL kits in stock...with dust on them. And that he could stock more RC cars in the same shelf space as the Trek kits.
> 
> ...


 
Usually the problem is not the product, but the hobby shop.

They either don't have a 'model' guy behind the counter.....

These things don't sell themselves you know.

....Or, they have them priced too high, making the owner think they don't sell.

A LHS close to me still has their FM Jango Fett Slave Ones still priced at $125.00.

Telling him they won't sell that high is like talking to a brick wall.


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## WarpCore Breach (Apr 27, 2005)

My LHS stores all have varying sizes of SF sections, but usually fairly small in relation to "everything else". The few stores I've been to this last month all have had the BSG kits and the owners have all told me that they've gone through the kits several times over. That's encouraging news to me! 

Several stores still have some of the PL Trek kits- I suppose it's unsurprising to know that those are all the Scorpions. I see a couple of 1/350 Refits as well but those remain full price.

It really does seem to depend on the attitudes/policies of the store owners.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Oh yeah, HiWay Hobby still has plenty of Scorpions. Right there on the shelf next to a hefty remaining stock of Kazon Torpedoes and those SeaQuest utility vehicles.


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## Capt. Krik (May 26, 2001)

model maker said:


> Tom, Great news ! Do you still have Lost in space rights for the Jupiter 2 and, if so, any chance on a larger version of it ?


Actually, Moebius Models has the license for the Irwin Allen shows.

You have seen their Space Pod and Chariot models coming soon, right!


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## Opus Penguin (Apr 19, 2004)

Yep, and a request for an 18" J2 or larger has been made. Last I heard he was considering it, but they are not even looking into it until the fall. I would suspect, if we see a new J2, it would be next year.


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## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

How about a Space Ghost _Phantom Cruiser?_


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## Captain America (Sep 9, 2002)

SteveR said:


> If that were economically feasible, I'd add that it would be quite nifty to mold the outside perfectly smooth, and mold the windows on the inside. They would act as a placement guide for the self-adhesive WindowDummy masks included with the kit. Ehh ... maybe not?


SECONDED!

If ERTL had thought about this with the initial release of their Refit, we wouldn't have had to wrestle with those friggen saucer windows that never fit! 

What are the chances if PL re-releases the ERTL Refit, that they could kill the random panelling off the ship first? Or would that be too much work? (I would imagine the lines would be raised relief in the dies, making it easier to Dremel™ off...):wave:

Here's a scary idea for 1/1000: TNG Romulan D'derix Warbird...not sure how big it'd be in scale, but in the series it was bigger than the D...(Maybe a smaller scale for this?)


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

The paneling on the Ertl refit was ground into the mold itself, thus making the finished parts a bit thicker overall than they were when it was a smoothie. The only way to fix it would be to FILL the engraving. It would probably be less costly to make a new kit than to try to fix those molds.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

As for the Romulan warbird, well, it's twice the length of the 1701-D, so in 1/1000 it would be almost 4 feet long.


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## Ignatz (Jun 20, 2000)

I could go for some of those Seaquest pickup trucks!


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## Captain America (Sep 9, 2002)

John P said:


> The paneling on the Ertl refit was ground into the mold itself, thus making the finished parts a bit thicker overall than they were when it was a smoothie. The only way to fix it would be to FILL the engraving. It would probably be less costly to make a new kit than to try to fix those molds.


I guess that makes sense. I was only thinking of it as the raised sections...didn't stop to think HOW they did that...

I PITY the poor worker(s) that had THAT job!:freak::freak:

If THAT'S the case, I'd love to see them scale down the BIG Refit to around that size...Nice size, nice detail, possibly a shuttlebay...Heck, for the lighted version, they could reuse the existing lighting kit...Maybe a variant of the Arrowhead stand? (Something more solid than what supports the BIG Refit.)


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## JGG1701 (Nov 9, 2004)

John P said:


> The paneling on the Ertl refit was ground into the mold itself.


Question..............................
Now if the "engravings" are deep in the model, wouldn't it be "raised" on the die itself???


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## fire91bird (Feb 3, 2008)

If you haven't been to the Modeling forum, they've announced their first batch of kits to be released starting in the fall. Re-releasing both the Polar Lights 1/1000 and the AMT TV Enterprise. Some cool show cars, too.


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## 1711rob (Mar 15, 2006)

fire91bird said:


> If you haven't been to the Modeling forum, they've announced their first batch of kits to be released starting in the fall. Re-releasing both the Polar Lights 1/1000 and the AMT TV Enterprise. Some cool show cars, too.


GOTTA read the modeling Forum! Great pic of the box art. :thumbsup:


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

JGG1701 said:


> Question..............................
> Now if the "engravings" are deep in the model, wouldn't it be "raised" on the die itself???


John wrote that they were ground (engraved) into the mold, not the model.


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## Griffworks (Jun 24, 2002)

JGG1701 said:


> Question..............................
> Now if the "engravings" are deep in the model, wouldn't it be "raised" on the die itself???


Which is I believe is the opposite of what JohnP meant, as that's the only logical explanation. At least, I took him to mean it the other way and just got confoozed like I often do....


EDIT: Dang it! I'm the one who's confoozed - as usual!!! 

What I meant was that the parts were cut in to the *mold*, not the model, which I thought you had said originally....

I'll shut up now....


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Yes, the paneling is engraved into the mold, and thus _raised _on the model. That's why you can get rid of it by sanding it off.


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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

Regarding the upcoming repop of the 18 incher.

Are we talking the original '66 molding, or the even-more-inaccurate mid 70's one? Or maybe some combination thereof?

Or, dare we hope, a new, accurate, version around the same size?


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

I guess it depends on what the evolution of the kit was - do the '66 molds still exist as they were, or were they the molds that were modified into whatever the last issue looked like? In that case, I'd guess we're gettin' the last issue.


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## F91 (Mar 3, 2002)

Uh..... Looking at mine, you have to fill in the "aztek" paneling to get rid of it.Then sand smooth.



John P said:


> Yes, the paneling is engraved into the mold, and thus _raised _on the model. That's why you can get rid of it by sanding it off.


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## Raist3001 (Oct 23, 2003)

John P said:


> Yes, the paneling is engraved into the mold, and thus _raised _on the model. That's why you can get rid of it by sanding it off.


Now I'm confused. You don't sand anything off on the Ertl refit. You need to fill in the engraved aztec.


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## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

Captain April said:


> Regarding the upcoming repop of the 18 incher.
> 
> Are we talking the original '66 molding, or the even-more-inaccurate mid 70's one? Or maybe some combination thereof?
> 
> Or, dare we hope, a new, accurate, version around the same size?


Candidly a repop of the old AMT kit "as is" or "as was" wouldn't interest me. The only way to get my interest here would be a new kit detailed like PL's 1/1000 kits.


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

If I am correct, the original 1967 AMT _Enterprise_ tools were made of aluminum, rather than steel. Therefore they didn't last (apparently AMT did not anticipate the overwhelming popularity of the _Enterprise_ kit) and the kit had to be retooled in steel in 1975. These are the molds that were used on all re-releases through the 90's.

So, unless the original molds still exist - and if they do - are in good enough shape to withstand a limited re-release, we are most likely going to get the '75 retooled version.

I, for one, would be overjoyed if the '67 version would be the kit offered in the original box.


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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

If the '67 molds are still around, then perhaps just doing a new molding of THEM in steel would do the trick.


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## USS Atlantis (Feb 23, 2008)

Raist3001 said:


> Now I'm confused. You don't sand anything off on the Ertl refit. You need to fill in the engraved aztec.





F91 said:


> Uh..... Looking at mine, you have to fill in the "aztek" paneling to get rid of it.Then sand smooth.


 We're talking the TOS-E here - not the Movie era re-fit

Atlantis - who's planning on getting at least 3 of the re-pops when they come out


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## F91 (Mar 3, 2002)

The TOS era E has aztecking? 
WE were talking about the refit, some of you are talking about the original E.


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## USS Atlantis (Feb 23, 2008)

F91 said:


> The TOS era E has aztecking?


Not as such - there are raised lines radially and circumferential that create a grid on the upper surface of the saucer section, some refer to them as the shield grid



F91 said:


> WE were talking about the refit, some of you are talking about the original E.


Confusing - since Tom has set a date for the release of the 18" TOS, the discussion I've been following is about that particular model/mold

Atlantis


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Atlantis, there's a side conversation going on about the Ertl refit and it's abominable panelling that was engraved onto the molds for its Wrath of Khan release.


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## F91 (Mar 3, 2002)

Agreed. But you have to read all of the posts to understand that there is a side conversation happening, brought about by people's wishes that the E-A would be re popped also, without the paneling.


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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

I don't suppose the molds for the TMP "smoothie" still exist, do they?


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## USS Atlantis (Feb 23, 2008)

John P said:


> Atlantis, there's a side conversation going on about the Ertl refit and it's abominable panelling that was engraved onto the molds for its Wrath of Khan release.


Ahh, I think I've been glazing over that since I have enough of those floating around my shop to last a while



Captain April said:


> I don't suppose the molds for the TMP "smoothie" still exist, do they?


I think they tossed the original 'smoothie' molds after making the etched abomination. We'd have to look to Tom to have the molds changed back or new ones made up - maybe (if we're lucky) he'll get Alfred to do new masters

Atlantis


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Oh good grief, is no one listening? - the TMP "smoothie" molds are the ones that were engraved with paneling. Sure, they still exist - _with _all that engraving on them.


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## Capt. Krik (May 26, 2001)

John P said:


> Oh good grief, is no one listening? - the TMP "smoothie" molds are the ones that were engraved with paneling. Sure, they still exist - _with _all that engraving on them.


I hope everyone is taking notes on this, there will be a test at the end of the semester.


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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

John P said:


> Oh good grief, is no one listening? - the TMP "smoothie" molds are the ones that were engraved with paneling. Sure, they still exist - _with _all that engraving on them.


I was afraid of that.

Bloody barbarians....


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

That thing is cursed. First they bugger up the paint on the filming minature, then they bugger up the model kit. 

Like they're trying to erase the TMP ship from existence.


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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

Well, there's always the option of tracking down a smoothie and making castings of the parts.


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## USS Atlantis (Feb 23, 2008)

Actually, it'd be easier to fix the TMP molds than the TOS molds

Since the TMP has etched lines, that means the molds have raised lines - polish those away and you have your 'smoothie' again

The lines in the TOS molds would have to be filled it - a much more intensive project as you'd have to take care not to spill over and affect the main saucer top

Atlantis


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

*THE TMP MOLDS HAVE THE DETAIL ETCHED INTO THEM ALSO. IT WOULD ALSO HAVE TO BE FILLED.*

Should I just give up explaining this, or is no one frickin reading my frickin posts?!?! :freak:


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## cireskul (Jul 16, 2006)

I am reading it JP. I feel your pain. WTF.


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## razorwyre1 (Jan 28, 2004)

John P said:


> *THE TMP MOLDS HAVE THE DETAIL ETCHED INTO THEM ALSO. IT WOULD ALSO HAVE TO BE FILLED.*
> 
> Should I just give up explaining this, or is no one frickin reading my frickin posts?!?! :freak:


 they just dont get the technical issues. dont get your bp up over it.

i did just have an oddball idea for marketing kits of obscurish subjects though..... package the kit together with the dvd of the movie. hypothetical example: lets say a figure kit of the time machine morlock... the kit comes with the dvd (or vice versa). it just might get the kit into more stores, and get more people into building. does this sound like a good idea?


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

John P said:


> Should I just give up explaining this, or is no one frickin reading my frickin posts?!?! :freak:


Actually, each time this comes up, it's kind of funny... Wait three posts. It'll be back.


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## F91 (Mar 3, 2002)

You have posts in this thread? Who knew?



John P said:


> *THE TMP MOLDS HAVE THE DETAIL ETCHED INTO THEM ALSO. IT WOULD ALSO HAVE TO BE FILLED.*
> 
> Should I just give up explaining this, or is no one frickin reading my frickin posts?!?! :freak:


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## ssorrell (Jan 12, 2006)

John P said:


> *THE TMP MOLDS HAVE THE DETAIL ETCHED INTO THEM ALSO. IT WOULD ALSO HAVE TO BE FILLED.*
> 
> Should I just give up explaining this, or is no one frickin reading my frickin posts?!?! :freak:


:lol:

John,

Perhaps I can ask a question of my own that might, in fact, help to clarify things for others. I've seen a lot of online material regarding finishing the AMT refit, that refers to smearing putty or some other filler all over the model, then sanding it smooth.

What you're saying, if I understand correctly, is that the molds were modifed after TMP not by adding raised lines to them, thus producing scribed lines on the model, but by etching the the molds, thus producing raised details on the model. So, the TMP smoothie is actually a little leaner than the following models, and filling the panel lines would indeed make it a "smoothie," but it would still be a little "chunkier" than the real smoothie.

In other words, the bottom of the panel lines on the later models would actually be the last remaining glimpse of the actual surface of the smoothie, and to regain the original dimsnsions would entail sanding the detail away.

Right? Correct me if I'm wrong 

I never knew that, that's kinda interesting. It took me a while to wrap my mind around what you were saying!

Thanks!

Scott


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## Captain America (Sep 9, 2002)

"And NOW you KNOW..."


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## El Gato (Jul 15, 2000)

John P said:


> *THE TMP MOLDS HAVE THE DETAIL ETCHED INTO THEM ALSO. IT WOULD ALSO HAVE TO BE FILLED.*
> 
> Should I just give up explaining this, or is no one frickin reading my frickin posts?!?! :freak:


That's right, no one reads your posts. It's all a conspiracy and we're all against you. It's not paranoia if it's true.


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## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

El Gato said:


> That's right, no one reads your posts. It's all a conspiracy and we're all against you. It's not paranoia if it's true.


Oh, that explains the flyer I got in the mail that read:

*Re: John P.

Get 'im, Get 'im.* :lol:


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

ssorrell said:


> :lol:
> 
> John,
> 
> ...


*YES!* *Somone gets it!* :lol:
I haven't tried it on a saucer yet, but for my USS Belisarius kitbash, I sanded the secindary hull down smooth. It's now back to the same plastic-thickness as the original issue smoothie.

http://www.inpayne.com/models/kitbash/trekpage_belisarius.html


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## USS Atlantis (Feb 23, 2008)

John P said:


> *YES!* *Somone gets it!* :lol:
> I haven't tried it on a saucer yet, but for my USS Belisarius kitbash, I sanded the secindary hull down smooth. It's now back to the same plastic-thickness as the original issue smoothie.
> 
> http://www.inpayne.com/models/kitbash/trekpage_belisarius.html


Ok, now I get it too

Though why they'd do that much work is beyond me

Same issue though - just grind/polish the added bit off the mold and we're back to the original smoothie

Atlantis - waiting with baited breath to order a few of the 650-TOS


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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

Note to Mr. Lowe:

Get a TMP Smoothie. Make castings for new molds. Ditto for a '66 TOS E.


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

USS Atlantis said:


> Same issue though - just grind/polish the added bit off the mold and we're back to the original smoothie


Note that nothing was added to the mold. Something was taken away by grinding, engraving, whatever. Maybe you're referring to the raised bits left over from the engraving.

If they re-grind as you suggest, the mold would be smooth, but the resulting kit hull would be slightly thicker than the original smoothie part because removing (engraving) from the mold is the same as adding plastic to the plastic part. 

But if you want to get back to the _original_ smoothie, you have to sand the added bits off the_ kit part_, or fill in the depressions in the _mold_. The latter, to my knowledge, may be impossible or at least impractical. I'm not a tool & die man, so I don't know.


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## razorwyre1 (Jan 28, 2004)

SteveR said:


> Note that nothing was added to the mold. Something was taken away by grinding, engraving, whatever. Maybe you're referring to the raised bits left over from the engraving.
> 
> If they re-grind as you suggest, the mold would be smooth, but the resulting kit hull would be slightly thicker than the original smoothie part because removing (engraving) from the mold is the same as adding plastic to the plastic part.
> 
> But if you want to get back to the _original_ smoothie, you have to sand the added bits off the_ kit part_, or fill in the depressions in the _mold_. The latter, to my knowledge, may be impossible or at least impractical. I'm not a tool & die man, so I don't know.


oh it would be highly impractical, verging on impossible. dont forget that there are the deflector grid lines. as they are etched into the kit, they are raised in the mold. any grinding and polishing would have to be done between them. the resulting additional thickness of the hull would make the grid lines very deep. 
and we havent even mentioned what it would do to the parts fit.


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## xr4sam (Dec 9, 1999)

Um, I love you guys like a bunch of (slightly dysfunctional) brothers, but dang! Some days you can be DENSE!

We have that gorgeous 1/350 refit. Why not just pantograph it down to 1/700 (17 1/2")? Seems easier than going through all the trouble to redo a kit that has only a passing relationship with the real ship...or is it just me?

NEVER MIND, DON'T ANSWER THAT!:wave:


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## Captain America (Sep 9, 2002)

xr4sam said:


> Um, I love you guys like a bunch of (slightly dysfunctional) brothers, but dang! Some days you can be DENSE!
> 
> We have that gorgeous 1/350 refit. Why not just pantograph it down to 1/700 (17 1/2")? Seems easier than going through all the trouble to redo a kit that has only a passing relationship with the real ship...or is it just me?
> 
> NEVER MIND, DON'T ANSWER THAT!:wave:


I take partial offense at that... I'm VERY dysfunctional...Ask my brother!

Pantograph...THAT'S what I was thinking of earlier as far as sizing down the big Refit to the smaller size.

If you do that, you might want to do that to any 1/350 OS E that they may do (assuming, of course, that they would do a big version first...)

(I always WONDERED why the surface of the ERTL Refit had the swirl marks in the plates...I guess they didn't have the time to polish out the modified saucer dies after they gouged out the additional panels...)

Be well, all.

Greg:wave:


----------



## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

USS Atlantis said:


> Ok, now I get it too
> 
> Though why they'd do that much work is beyond me
> 
> Same issue though - just grind/polish the added bit off the mold and we're back to the original smoothie


Apparently you DON'T get it! :freak:


----------



## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

xr4sam said:


> We have that gorgeous 1/350 refit. Why not just pantograph it down to 1/700 (17 1/2")?


See all those incredibly tiny parts in the 1/350 kit?
You wanna try assembling them at half that size?

Some major re-engineering and parts consolidation is required for scaling a kit down. Some things won't trranslate well. Some plastic will be too thin. Forget about the window inserts...


----------



## xr4sam (Dec 9, 1999)

Wah, wah, wah!  

John, we're _model builders!_ (or kit assemblers, depending on who you ask!) A little thing like, "Can't be done!" shouldn't stop us!:woohoo:

Actually, I'm thinking that once the files are adjusted to eliminate all those teeny-tiny parts, THEN they could cut the molds...


----------



## modelgeek (Jul 14, 2005)

Is this the ship your talking about John?


----------



## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

I'm guessing that's a post 1976 molding, right?


----------



## razorwyre1 (Jan 28, 2004)

modelgeek said:


> Is this the ship your talking about John?


stand back folks, johns heads gonna explode.......



xr4sam said:


> Wah, wah, wah!
> 
> John, we're _model builders!_ (or kit assemblers, depending on who you ask!) A little thing like, "Can't be done!" shouldn't stop us!:woohoo:
> 
> Actually, I'm thinking that once the files are adjusted to eliminate all those teeny-tiny parts, THEN they could cut the molds...


its not that simple... not by a longshot. im also betting that due to issues with casting styrene they couldnt scale up the 1/1000 TOS ship without some major (non aesthetic) changes.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

modelgeek said:


> Is this the ship your talking about John?


_*NO!









*_


----------



## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

Modelgeek may have been pulling your chain, John ...


----------



## F91 (Mar 3, 2002)

Are you sure? Coulda' swore that was it.:thumbsup::lol:



John P said:


> _*NO!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## modelgeek (Jul 14, 2005)

Well ok John! Just say what ya feel ..I mean don't hold back..It's ok we all respect you on here ... Lmao !!! John I was just pulling your chain a lil bit.... You all have a Good Easter ...Jeff


----------



## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

.....


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## Opus Penguin (Apr 19, 2004)

Starship Modeler:
http://www.starshipmodeler.com/news.cfmhas

has reported the beginnings of some re-releases:

AMT PLASTIC MODEL KITS (AMT) 

1/650 Star Trek USS Enterprise (Special Tin) (Re-release of the classic 1967 kit from AMT. Packaged in embossed collector's tin. Model is 18" long when completed.) Expected release: October 2008 MSRP - $37.50 USD 
1/650 Star Trek USS Enterprise (Boxed Kit) (Re-release of the classic 1967 kit from AMT. Features original box graphics. Model is 18" long when fully assembled.) Expected release: October 2008 MSRP - $23.00 USD 
POLAR LIGHTS PLASTIC MODEL KITS (PLL) 

1/1000 Star Trek USS Enterprise NCC1701 (From the original series. Features accurate details & optional parts to build one of 3 classic versions: first pilot, second pilot & series version. Model is 12"long when completed & includes display stand.) Expected release: August 2008 MSRP: $18.50 USD


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## modelgeek (Jul 14, 2005)

modelgeek said:


> Is this the ship your talking about John?


Well can anyone tell me the details on this kit it was given to me and it was in pieces and missing few as well.. Would it be worth restoreing? Thanks in advance ..Jeff


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

Opus Penguin said:


> Starship Modeler:
> http://www.starshipmodeler.com/news.cfmhas
> 
> has reported the beginnings of some re-releases:
> ...


Question: did the original '67 kit have a smooth saucer hull or one with raised grid lines?

Also, I certainly wouldn't look forward to the horrible way the nacelle struts attached to the secondary hull in that old kit. That was simply brutal.


----------



## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

The 1967 issue had the raised grid lines.


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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

The bridge and B/C deck were also slightly different in the pre-'76 molding.

Have you got some pics of the secondary hull? That would clinch it.


----------



## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

Opus Penguin said:


> Starship Modeler:
> http://www.starshipmodeler.com/news.cfmhas
> AMT PLASTIC MODEL KITS (AMT)
> 
> ...


Okay, are we to believe that the original mold from '67 has survived? Or is this a gussied up repop of the '76 mold?


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## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

In face of the PL 1/1000 kit being reissued then re-releasing the old AMT kit seems totally pointless. The AMT may be bigger, but it's like a child's simplified toy in comparison.

The only point to re-releasing the old 18" would be if it were retooled to be far more accurate than what we once had. And in that case why not just scale up the PL kit to perhaps 1/600? Now that's something I'd go for. Scale up the PL kit to 1/600 and include the extra parts for the alternate versions and then you'd really have something. And it would be more affordable (and more accessible) than a 1/350 kit.


----------



## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Warped9 said:


> why not just scale up the PL kit to perhaps 1/600? Now that's something I'd go for.


Tell ya what - Go take a small, lo-res photo and scale it up about 200%. That's why not.

Look at the way the kit is made and ask yourself how those parts would look almost twice as big, and how much puttying and detailing you'd need to do to make the model look good.

I _can't_ be the only one on this board who understands scale issues.


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

^^ I do understand what you're saying. I didn't mean this literally.

My essential point is that we've had the old AMT for decades and while it was okay way back when it just doesn't cut it anymore. And candidly while the PL 1/1000 is nice I find it too small. A 1/350 is something of a wet dream as far as TOS modelers go.

What would really make the most sense business wise and in terms of satisfying customers and being affordable for a lot of people would be a proper mid scale kit.

We need a _new_ kit in a decent scale. Yes, it would mean new tooling, but I think it would be well worth it.

You know, as flawed as my AA TOS _E_ replica is that I have on display I'd rather have that than the old AMT kit.


----------



## F91 (Mar 3, 2002)

I disagree John. I think you may be the only person who understands everything, especially grammar.



John P said:


> Tell ya what - Go take a small, lo-res photo and scale it up about 200%. That's why not.
> 
> Look at the way the kit is made and ask yourself how those parts would look almost twice as big, and how much puttying and detailing you'd need to do to make the model look good.
> 
> I _can't_ be the only one on this board who understands scale issues.


----------



## justinleighty (Jan 13, 2003)

John P said:


> _can't_ be the only one on this board who understands scale issues.


No, I understand. Every time I step on a scale, I realize there are issues!


----------



## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

F91 said:


> I disagree John. I think you may be the only person who understands everything, especially grammar.


But my Gramma never understood _me_!


----------



## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

F91 said:


> I disagree John. I think you may be the only person who understands everything, especially grammar.


That's not fair to attack John for that. 

I understand everything, too--especially grammar! Why, oh, why won't you attack me for that, too????


----------



## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

F91 said:


> I disagree John. I think you may be the only person who understands everything, especially grammar.


Yeah.

If it weren't for me, he'd be the _only_ one!


----------



## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

I'd like a repop of the '67 AMT version strictly for the nostalgia factor, as well as building up my fleet of pre-Constitution class ships (not to mention spare parts for repairing my Constellation model, rescued from the eviction heap), but I think I did suggest upthread, or maybe over in the Trek Model Request thread, that an accurate model of that size would be extra nice.


----------



## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

tlowe said:


> Hey Polar Lights fans: check out www.autoworldslotcars.com for some big news! I attained the rights to my beloved brand! Time to Rock and Roll again. Star Trek license is almost signed!
> 
> Tom Lowe


 
Any updates you can share with us, Tom?


----------



## F91 (Mar 3, 2002)

Attack?? Gentle prod maybe. You'll never actually SEE the attack coming.



PerfesserCoffee said:


> That's not fair to attack John for that.
> 
> I understand everything, too--especially grammar! Why, oh, why won't you attack me for that, too????


----------



## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

F91 said:


> You'll never actually SEE the attack coming.







:jest:


----------



## ClubTepes (Jul 31, 2002)

Chuck_P.R. said:


> Any updates you can share with us, Tom?


Interesting that he hasn't posted anything here since his little 'announcement'.

Certainly not the PL I remember.


----------



## ClubTepes (Jul 31, 2002)

Opus Penguin said:


> Starship Modeler:
> http://www.starshipmodeler.com/news.cfmhas
> 
> has reported the beginnings of some re-releases:
> ...


Everyone goes to great lengths to call the AMT Refit 1/537 scale.......

So why, oh WHY, do people insist on calling the 18" TOS E 1/650?

Guys its NOT 1/650.

I don't believe that ANY Star Trek model has been done in 1/650.
Except for REL's beautiful kits (Which I wish he had done in 1/700).


----------



## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

Correct. The original kit is 1/635 scale.

This use to be reported correctly, until some genius at AMT decided that all of the kits were 1/650 scale for "uniformity".


----------



## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

Chuck_P.R. said:


> Any updates you can share with us, Tom?





ClubTepes said:


> Interesting that he hasn't posted anything here since his little 'announcement'.
> 
> Certainly not the PL I remember.


 
I didn't mean to imply anything negative about his three weeks without a post.

I'm just chomping at the bit to hear more info about his plans, etc.


Three weeks is not a long time considering what and with whom he is negotiating.

Paramount's Trek licensors are dealing with a franchise that currently has no new TV series being aired or even on the horizon(aside from the "remastering"). They also have a "Who Knows?" expensive movie in the works that they will want somebody to be able to mass produce merchandise for them to help cover their costs for the movie.

On top of that, how many thousands or tens of thousands or more now obsolete Toshiba format HD DVD sets of TOS are they currently dealing with? Even if CBS/Paramount aren't cranking them out or paying for them themselves(I have no way of knowing - maybe someone else here has a source for that info), that's got to be - at the very least - a customer service nightmare!!!

So Tom should be able to get a much better deal then someone trying to negotiate with those guys six or eight years ago could hope to get.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for him!

I'm just anxious to hear some more from the guy, but if they are in the middle of negotiations it might take awhile.


----------



## Lou Dalmaso (Jul 13, 2004)

I'll make a point here.

The HD-DVD's are not as "obsolete" as you say. I wasn't a big fan of the "combo" disks, but the DVD side can still be played on any existing player

(pssst...even a Blu-ray)


----------



## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

Now if only they'd lower the price to something resembling reality....


----------



## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

I'm certain that the remastered version of the first season will be re-released soon in separate DVD and Blu-ray versions, as will the second and third season future releases. As for the combo format first season discs - I have no interest in paying twice as much for something I would only use half of.


----------



## xsavoie (Jun 29, 1999)

Has someone actually watched the Star Trek year 1 series in both High Definition and regular restored definition,so to speak,and is the difference very noticeable.The reason I'm asking this is because I have always heard that unless some footage is actually shot in digital format,older regular reel shooting will show a limit in their improvement,even in High Definition.


----------



## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

The original format was 35mm film, which is a helluva lot higher definition than even high definition video, especially if that 35mm print has been remastered to within an inch of its life.

That's why the newly remastered versions are able to pick out details like the seam in Nimoy's pointed ears, and if the right angle shows up, the toupee tape along Shatner's hairline.


----------



## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

xsavoie said:


> Has someone actually watched the Star Trek year 1 series in both High Definition and regular restored definition,so to speak,and is the difference very noticeable.The reason I'm asking this is because I have always heard that unless some footage is actually shot in digital format,older regular reel shooting will show a limit in their improvement,even in High Definition.


 
Somebody can manage to mess up the transfer, but that's because it's never beyond being humanly possible to mess up something.

As Captain April has pointed out, 35mm is way higher def then 1900 x 1080 frames of HD video.

I've gotten two to four times that resolution from scanning old film clips from the show I bought years ago. And that's from non-mint condition clips scanned on my home computer with a $150 buck scanner.


----------



## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

Lou Dalmaso said:


> I'll make a point here.
> 
> The HD-DVD's are not as "obsolete" as you say. I wasn't a big fan of the "combo" disks, but the DVD side can still be played on any existing player
> 
> (pssst...even a Blu-ray)


You do have a valid point. 

If they dropped them down to $20 a season they might be worth it for the standard DVD's. 

But until they get down to the "just dump them" price of about $19.99 I think whoever is sitting on unsold HD DVD season disks should make themselves comfortible. 

Chances are they are going to be sitting on them for awhile.


P.S. $20 bucks is just the price that it would take for me to consider buying a HD DVD set just to get the standard disks. Some people I'm sure might put that price a bit higher, Your Mileage May Vary.


----------



## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

Some 35mm films are scanned at 2K (a little bigger than HD, which is 1920 wide) but some are scanned at 4K (which is 4096 wide) then brought down to HD. Naturally, 4K is better. Oversampling.

Anyway, here's a link on this sort of thing:
http://whatsonhdtv.blogspot.com/2005/07/2k-4k-who-do-we-appreciate.html


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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

A friend of mine has used the Sean Connery Bond films as examples of how some films _shouldn't_ be remastered in high def. After all, do we really need to see just how low the budget really was on those early films?

Or, to translate the example to Star Trek, do we really need to be able to see that the colored circles on the wall of the Eymorg lab in "Spock's Brain" are really coffee cup lids from the commissary?

Standard def is fine for most cases, I think.


----------



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

Captain April said:


> A friend of mine has used the Sean Connery Bond films as examples of how some films _shouldn't_ be remastered in high def. After all, do we really need to see just how low the budget really was on those early films?
> 
> Or, to translate the example to Star Trek, do we really need to be able to see that the colored circles on the wall of the Eymorg lab in "Spock's Brain" are really coffee cup lids from the commissary?
> 
> Standard def is fine for most cases, I think.


Very true.


----------



## Joel (Jul 27, 1999)

> A friend of mine has used the Sean Connery Bond films as examples of how some films shouldn't be remastered in high def. After all, do we really need to see just how low the budget really was on those early films?


I don't know, those films played just fine in full film resolution projected onto 40-50 foot wide screens (and sometimes, wider)... much bigger and much higher def than you're gonna get from Blu-ray. So, to me that's not a good argument. And, yes, we do need to see those old films (theatrical or TV) remastered in high def.


----------



## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

Projected on a movie screen isn't quite the same thing as high def video.

For one thing, the focus is a helluva lot sharper on the high def screen than through the film projector. Plus, there's the matter of just how good the print is (same issue, how tightly focused is it? Remember, all the visual information is on the _negative_, not necessarily on the print of the negative).


----------



## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

Captain April said:


> Projected on a movie screen isn't quite the same thing as high def video.
> 
> For one thing, the focus is a helluva lot sharper on the high def screen than through the film projector. Plus, there's the matter of just how good the print is (same issue, how tightly focused is it? Remember, all the visual information is on the _negative_, not necessarily on the print of the negative).


 
If you make a proper copy, with quality stock, all of the information down to the grain level will transfer to the film.

Can you mess up and make a bad copy?

Sure. Just as a problem in a bad disk or the copy process can mess up the info on a DVD.

But a decent film positive from a decent negative will have much more then twice as much detail then HD video will.


On the issue of focus...

HD is not more focused then film, at least not 35mm and with the right stock and lighting I doubt it's sharper then 16mm.

That is, if by focus you mean instead *level of apparent sharpness*.

Focus is really a matter of how the Cinematographer executed the shot, and with what optical equipment.

Did he use a lens with the right depth of field, or are key elements of the shot outside the optimal focal range?

Focus is not a film vs. video issue but a lense issue.

Use the wrong lense for a shot that you want focused a certain way on the most expensive High Def commercial camera available, 

and that failure to use the right lense will make the HD Video look out of focus just as using the wrong lens for film would.

The source material is either focused or unfocused.

Now, *apparent sharpness*, that's another matter.

HD can't match 35mm sharpness.

The reason you think it can is because most movie screens you've sat in front of have probably been 40-60 *feet wide*(even the small multiplex screens are 24-30 feet)

versus the 40-60 _*inch wide*_ HD screens most people have.

Just like with conventional TV's displaying the same program, a 13" TV looks sharper then a 32". 

Even though the 13" and 32" have the same number of dots, when displaying the same picture the 13" looks radically sharper.

Why? *The dots are much smaller and closer together* on a 13" *even though there are no more of them*, which makes the same exact image look sharper then it does when shown on a larger 32".

So the smaller size of the 13" screen makes the same image seem sharper *even though it isn't*.


The reverse of that is also true.

When you blow up an image by factors of 10-15, even if the individual elements of the image remain as sharp as a smaller version, it appears to not be as sharp if you look at only a small part of the image.


Even though 35mm film can hold an image that is discernably more then twice as sharp as HD, most theaters display the image on a screen that is 10 or more times the size of the biggest TV's most people short of George Lucas own.

Your HD TV doesn't appear to be sharper because it is, but because you probably haven't ponnied up and bought that *48 foot* model yet.

But then, not many of us have.


----------



## fortress (Apr 1, 2006)

Tom

Having you back with PL is trully wonderful, we have missed that
brand and are glad to see you back in action. Good luck with the
STAR TREK people, they can be a pain in the #&!!.


Hey! if everything goes well how about this for starters;

STAR TREK USS EXCELSIOR 1/35
ST KLINGON BIRD OF PREY 1/35
ST USS RELIANT 1/35
ST USS ENTERPRISE-E 1/35
2001 DISCOVERY SPACESHIP 1/35
2010 RUSSIAN SPACESHIP 1/35


fortress:thumbsup:


----------



## DL Matthys (May 8, 2004)

fortress said:


> 1/35
> 
> 
> 
> fortress:thumbsup:


Thanks for bringin' it back on topic (scale trek models) Fortress.
But the scale of 1/35 would crowd out my 1/35 tank collection and the whole house itself. So I hope your kidding about that scale or fix the "0" (zero) key stroke on your computer.


The ideal injection molded Trek kit to make in 1/35 or around 1/32ish???

I'd want a Vulcan Shuttlecraft.
I'd even be happy with a AMT reissue at it's current scale

DLM


----------



## g_xii (Mar 20, 2002)

John P said:


> Tell ya what - Go take a small, lo-res photo and scale it up about 200%. That's why not.
> 
> Look at the way the kit is made and ask yourself how those parts would look almost twice as big, and how much puttying and detailing you'd need to do to make the model look good.
> 
> I _can't_ be the only one on this board who understands scale issues.


John:

I thought that the masters used for making the molds in the first place were a LOT larger than the kit that came out? Or am I wrong about that? It seems I was under the impression it was going to be a much larger kit and was surprised with the actual size was announced.... Any idea?

--Henry


----------



## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

Could someone give us a quick rundown of just how this process goes?


----------



## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Yes, patterns for styrene kits are often 150% the size of the final kit. That doesn't change the fact that those masters are carefully designed to be appropriate to that final size, not to something bigger. The PL Enterprise is well-designed for a small kit, but that included compromises and simplifications that would look horrible once enlarged.


----------



## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

So, how do we get from that 150% master to the actual mold?


----------



## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Pantograph machines with router heads.


----------



## ClubTepes (Jul 31, 2002)

John P said:


> Pantograph machines with router heads.


Unless of course the whole thing is done in computer and cut directly into the metal.

One can easily see the diference.


----------



## ClubTepes (Jul 31, 2002)

fortress said:


> Tom
> 
> Having you back with PL is trully wonderful, we have missed that
> brand and are glad to see you back in action. Good luck with the
> ...


I think your looping yourself into that catagory.

It distressing to me that Tom hasn't been back since his announcement.
Just my prediction.........but I don't expect to see any 'new' ST kits from the 'new' PL. And if by chance they DO do a new kit, expect AMT/Ertl mentality as thats where his people came from.


----------



## Opus Penguin (Apr 19, 2004)

Unfortunately I agree with this statement.


----------



## Vaderman (Nov 2, 2002)

You also have to look at the long term financial aspects. In the long run, can they recoup what they have paid out to use the molds and is it worth spending money on new kits that may only have a small niche market. 

Scott


----------



## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

Seems to be that PL was doing pretty well by itself with the new kits and reissues of classic ones, before that buyout happened. And God knows, we certainly buy multiple copies of those kits sometimes, for kitbashing purposes, which makes up for our lack of market share.

No, I think we'll see some good things with regard to new Trek kits, once the wheels get humming along.

It'd just be nice to get a note or two along those lines....


----------



## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

ClubTepes said:


> Unless of course the whole thing is done in computer and cut directly into the metal.
> 
> One can easily see the diference.


I'm old fashioned.


----------



## CaliOkie (Dec 31, 2007)

Hey, somebody will have to do a version of the new "old" Enterprise when the movie comes out next summer. I have no doubt that Paramount is going to market the hell out of that thing with figures, models, toys, pajamas, toilet paper add nausium. Maybe there will be a PL tie in here? It would be a smart move. 

Does anyone know if someone is working on this?


----------



## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

That would be fine, but not at the expense of the 1/350 scale original _Enterprise_ kit.

We've been down that road before.


----------



## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

Probably a 1/1000 version, at least at first.


----------



## Opus Penguin (Apr 19, 2004)

Definately a lot of merchandising regarding toys coming out for the new movie. We've heard reviews of those that have seen them. There will be an Enterprise toy and phaser, communicator, tricorders, as well as action figures. All by Playmates.


----------



## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

John P said:


> Yes, patterns for styrene kits are often 150% the size of the final kit. That doesn't change the fact that those masters are carefully designed to be appropriate to that final size, not to something bigger. The PL Enterprise is well-designed for a small kit, but that included compromises and simplifications that would look horrible once enlarged.


If you guys want to see how badly panographing a model from one size to another works look at Trumpeter's awful 1/32 scale MiG-15. Its basically an enlarged, bloated copy of the Tamiya 1/48 kit. 

Even in the same scale, some panograph rip offs from China pick up bad traits... rough surface detail, details that dont line up like panel lines on the fusilage halves etc. Kinitics 1/48 knock off of the Monogram F-84F jet is this way. Its a same scale panographed copy of the Monogram kit but with a lot of bad features added via the copying process.

Going the opposite direction works better. Revell and Monogram's 1/72 scale downs of the F-101 Voodoo, F-105 Thunderchief, F-89 Scoropion etc are very good when put next to their 1/48 scale originals.


----------



## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

There is a "t" in pantograph.


----------



## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

There is indeed.

Going smaller from an original always works better than going larger. Reducing a soft detail makes it sharper, while enlarging it only makes it softer and more obvious. Just like reducing an image in an art program sharpens it up, but enlarging it exaggerates the pixels.


----------



## seaQuest (Jan 12, 2003)

Is it just me, or when somebody says "Star Trek," there's always peeps who start salivating like Pavlov's Dog?

Over-enthusiasm for Star Trek is what turned me away from the series a long time ago, not just from modelers, but from Trekkers in general (don't get me started on Trek costume-fen). (No, no, no! The tunic-and-trousers started in the THIRD season of TNG, but were changed from a straight tunic to an elastic-waistband tunic after "The Great Vegetable Rebellion." Oops...)

I'd just like to see the Batcycle and Green Hornet Black Beauty again.


----------



## kit-junkie (Apr 8, 2005)

You can still find the BatCycle, for next to nothing, on the E. Black beauty shows up now and again, as well.

P.S. I never liked (the original) Star Trek much, either. I watched Next Generation several times, though.


----------



## Nova Designs (Oct 10, 2000)

seaQuest said:


> Is it just me, or when somebody says "Star Trek," there's always peeps who start salivating like Pavlov's Dog?
> 
> Over-enthusiasm for Star Trek is what turned me away from the series a long time ago, not just from modelers, but from Trekkers in general (don't get me started on Trek costume-fen). (No, no, no! The tunic-and-trousers started in the THIRD season of TNG, but were changed from a straight tunic to an elastic-waistband tunic after "The Great Vegetable Rebellion." Oops...)


You know there's a very simple way to avoid all that BS and still enjoy Star Trek the way you used to...


*Stay off internet forums! *:thumbsup:

I gave up places like trekBBS and the various other nitpickers forums many years ago. I just want to watch the show, build a few models and collect a few props. Talking about it? not so much.


----------



## seaQuest (Jan 12, 2003)

NovaD,

With me, it was all the peeps I hung out with at conventions and the like.

Don't get me wrong, back in the day, I waited in line for STTMP on December 7, 1979 in that dang Dr. Denton uniform with the rest of my local Chicago Trek fanclub, freezing my arse off because we wanted people to see our wonderful uniforms! But, as my convention-going stretched on, my patience with nit-picky Trekkers stretched thin, and I said "bye-bye" to Trek fandom in general. The only thing I've been able to watch is Star Trek Remastered. I generally stay off TrekBBS and others. The new movie? I'll wait until it comes out on DVD. (Especially since movie theaters in L.A. are upwards of 15 bucks a pop, more if you want a private box at Arclight Cinemas.)

Just as a side note, back in 1996, I worked at Streamline Pictures (Modelworks division) for Carl Macek, who was the producer of Robotech for Harmony Gold. After Carl and I got into it, I couldn't watch Robotech for 12 years! (Found out, I still can't. I tried, and I wondered, "I really LIKED this back in'85????????????") 

Point being, sometimes, it doesn't take much to set me off, and turn me away from something I used to love.

Don't get me started on "V."


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## Nova Designs (Oct 10, 2000)

Hehehe, yeah I hear you about the conventions. I stopped going in the early 80s myself. Seems like after the movies started coming out, the fanbase really changed. I loved it in the 70s when there was only TOS. It was a very new phenominon and there was a real coming together over the love of the show. Now everything is fractured into camps and all people seem to do now is fight and compete.

I'll probably go to see the new movie just because I like seeing movies (even as expensive as the Arclight is )... but I'm going with the mindset that it isn't really Star Trek, just another fanboy interpretation. For me real Star Trek died with Gene Roddenberry. I treated "Enterprise" the same way and was able to enjoy it for what it was instead of getting all upset over what it was "supposed to be" but never was.

Natually, we all have our opinions about Star Trek--anything really. I guess the difference is, I don't feel the need to try and change anyone's mind about this stuff... not anymore. There really never was a point to arguing about it anyway. I'm much happier just enjoying the parts I enjoy privately.


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