# New Orleans



## Steven Coffey (Jan 5, 2005)

Hey, I just want to remind every one to keep our friends in New Orleans in your thoughts and prayers .I know Chuck_P.R. is down there and maybe a few more of our members as well . I hope every one and their families are ok.


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## PhilipMarlowe (Jan 23, 2004)

After viewing the helicopter footage from New Orleans, Biloxi and Gulfport, my heart goes to those folks. We tend to be a bit blase about hurricanes in Florida. We bunkered down for four hurricanes in six _weeks_ last year, but nothing like the devastation of Katrina. It looks much worse than the media first reported, Biloxi and Gulfport are just gone. The most telling indication of the power of that storm surge I saw was that it dislodged and mangled the big dolphin tanks at the Gulfport Aquarium, I can't even imagine the force required to toss around that much weight.

And the waters still rising in New Orleans.

We'll definately say a prayer for Chuck and the other Louisana and Mississippi modelers.


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## trekmodeler (Apr 30, 2004)

Yes, all prayers are needed. I live a four hour drive North of New Orleans. We have many evacuees and refugees here in our town. One local church has set up a shelter, and other churches are taking turns providing meals for them. Several families in our community have relatives that lived in New Orleans, and they are now staying here. One of my co-workers has 13 people staying in his home, not to mention several dogs, cats etc. Another co-worker has a cousin that lived there and lost everything. It is truly sad. With the gasoline prices going up, everyone is scrambling to fuel up their vehicles, and the grocery stores are crowded. It really breaks your heart to see the victims, the looks they have on their faces, having lost everything. Internet connections are very bad, sometimes they work, sometimes they don't all over the state today. Please continue to keep everyone, from the victims to the workers, in your prayers. God is the best.


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## capt Locknar (Dec 29, 2002)

My sister is stationed down there in Belle Chasse, she is now in Tennessee as that was the closest available hotel room. Everything else was booked. She checks in with mom and dad as much as possible. We're still not sure what she lost in all this. She has a first floor apt on base housing.


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## Lloyd Collins (Sep 25, 2004)

My sister and her husband lives in Gulfport, and so far I can't get her on the phone. They have a place in Alabama, but can't get through.


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## MitchPD3 (Dec 27, 2001)

Chuck P.R., Mangoman, XR4sam is in Chalmette the last time I sent him some snail mail and Chalmette was in the direct path. Trek, I know what ya mean. I was working the other night and had bumper to bumper traffic coming thru. People with everything they owned packed into their vehicles and either lost or looking for places to stay. By 5am everything in N. LA and Arkansas was full. I had no recourse but advise them to head west toward TX and OK, or north to MO. It was very depressing. We caught some rain with 40mph winds. Light damage around here, I hate to think how bad it is down south.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Well, anybody down there isn't going to have electricity for the forseeable future, so we may not hear from them for a while!


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## Dave Hussey (Nov 20, 1998)

Let's hope all our southern buds are okay. Houses can be rebuilt and you can buy new stuff, but people are not replaceable.

Huzz


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## ChrisW (Jan 1, 1970)

If you can afford to donate, please do so to any reputable organization collecting for the victims.
It looks like they are in it for the long haul. God bless them.


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## Griffworks (Jun 24, 2002)

MitchPD3 said:


> Chuck P.R., Mangoman,


Mangoman/Jeff is either US Navy or Coast Guard so I'm sure he's fine, tho obviously is like everyone else and probably lost a lot of what he owns. 


> XR4sam is in Chalmette the last time I sent him some snail mail and Chalmette was in the direct path.


Sam is fine. He posted at Starship Modeler's ThunderDome that his family packed up as much as they could and he's living out of a hote lin Dallas, TX, for the non. He's not sure of any damage his house may or may not have sustained, tho he's not got a lot of hope. 


> Trek, I know what ya mean. I was working the other night and had bumper to bumper traffic coming thru. People with everything they owned packed into their vehicles and either lost or looking for places to stay. By 5am everything in N. LA and Arkansas was full. I had no recourse but advise them to head west toward TX and OK, or north to MO. It was very depressing. We caught some rain with 40mph winds. Light damage around here, I hate to think how bad it is down south.


Yeah, a lot of the hotels here in the greater Little Rock area are pretty full. We, too, got some winds and rain, but nothing much. No damage in the state this far North that I'm aware of, anyhow. Just some T-storms and 20 - 30 MPH winds.


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## Ziz (Feb 22, 1999)

http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/GOES/Katrina/GMEX/AVN_loop.html

Interesting animation of Kat's path. Makes it easier for those of us not familiar with the area to get an idea of the geography relative to the damage.


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## El Gato (Jul 15, 2000)

My wife and I will be sending a donation to the Red Cross and my office will also be setting up a drive. The pictures in today's paper are just shocking. My thoughts and prayers are with our Southern brethren.

José


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## beeblebrox (Jul 30, 2003)

This is part of a post from Sheldon at the DisneySub forum:

"He (my son in law) and I will attempt to make it back to Biloxi (my home) and Gulfport (their home) and to my wife's parent's home (Biloxi). Son in law He is a minister and will, no doubt, help bury the dead. I'll try to help my client's first, then find someplace to volenteer. 

This is very hard to get your head around, but imagine everything you knew is gone. I mean EVERYTHING. The grade school, the high school you graduated from, where your kids got married, the grocery store, the bank, your insurance guy's office, the library, city hall, all the car lots and most cars, period. No flush toilets, refrigerator or water from the tap. No Ice. No jobs, no TV, no electicity...and no reliable estimates for the return of anything. 

All that being said, we will survive. And thrive. 

WE cry for New Orleans."

Prayers and best wishes friends,
Jerry "beeble" Terrell


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

^No, I really can't imagine. The absolute most I've been "deprived" was that huge northeast blackout a few years ago, and we were only without power for about 6 hours. We sat on the porch and read for the duration. It was actually kinda nice.

Hurricane Floyd flooded out a friend's neighborhood much like we see on TV (chest deep), but only within a few blocks of the Ramapo River. He lost his basement (and his entire model collection! ), but the upstairs was fine, and he was back in the house and repairing it within a week.

I really can't imagine BANG - clean slate, wiped out, start from nothing.


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## Ziz (Feb 22, 1999)

Hey John...don't forget about those two matching buildings that got knocked down a few years ago...


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## Cajjunwolfman (Nov 15, 2004)

I reside in New Orleans also. 
I had a flash of sanity provided by divine providence, got gas that Friday night, and left Saturday morning to San Antonio, Texas. I am now there living with relatives and watching the situation in the "Big Easy" progressively go down hill by the hour. So far everyone I know is physically ok, but many including myself have probably lost everything material. (What I mourn the most is the loss of my BL's model purchases including a chaser hulk, and chaser spiderman. My chaser seaview is gone, but for some reason I took all my Spindrifts with me when I left).
I am deeply saddened to see the conduct of some "bad apples" of society but I am sure there are many more courageous tales of love and life to be yet told. In time I am sure I can reaquire a job, home, and a model collection if need be. I am not so sure it is all that important any more to own more models that I can possibly ever build. I am one of the "lucky ones" who escaped and I may reevaluate what I consider important in my life based on that. 
God speed relief to those still suffering and all we know who may be affected by this traumatic event.


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## F91 (Mar 3, 2002)

I grew up in Florida, lots of Hurricanes over the years. We were always spared the flooding. The flooding on top of the devastation is incomprehensible.
I work for a Power company up here in the NW and I've asked if anyone from down there has asked for our help. Nothing yet.
I'll just donate like everyone else, for now.


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## F91 (Mar 3, 2002)

I've got a chaser Siderman for you, whenever you want it, on me.



Cajjunwolfman said:


> I reside in New Orleans also.
> I had a flash of sanity provided by divine providence, got gas that Friday night, and left Saturday morning to San Antonio, Texas. I am now there living with relatives and watching the situation in the "Big Easy" progressively go down hill by the hour. So far everyone I know is physically ok, but many including myself have probably lost everything material. (What I mourn the most is the loss of my BL's model purchases including a chaser hulk, and chaser spiderman. My chaser seaview is gone, but for some reason I took all my Spindrifts with me when I left).
> I am deeply saddened to see the conduct of some "bad apples" of society but I am sure there are many more courageous tales of love and life to be yet told. In time I am sure I can reaquire a job, home, and a model collection if need be. I am not so sure it is all that important any more to own more models that I can possibly ever build. I am one of the "lucky ones" who escaped and I may reevaluate what I consider important in my life based on that.
> God speed relief to those still suffering and all we know who may be affected by this traumatic event.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

If anyone within a reasonable distance from the disaster area has a garage or other spare room or housing for our affected modeling buddies or their families, it'd be nice to offer that for a while until the area is inhabitable again. Just a thought. It'd probably be more effective help than sending money to the Red Cross.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Ziz said:


> Hey John...don't forget about those two matching buildings that got knocked down a few years ago...


 Not likely to forget, I watched it from the front lawn at work. But, loss of life aside, that only effected 6 square city blocks, and cleanup was fairly straighforward (pick up the bits, move them to a dump). Today we have an entire _city _wiped out - infrastructure, homes, businesses, tourist trade, cultural history - the _works_! 

(Even if you want to count acreage, you have no comparison - each floor of the WTC was one acre in size, so NYC lost over 200 acres of commercial space in those buildings, plus the 6 blocks around them. How many acres of NO are underwater now?)


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

Chicago Fire of 1871, 
San Francisco Quake of 1906, 
New Orleans Flood of 2005?


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## The-Nightsky (May 10, 2005)

Cajunwolfman:
I have a chaser Hulk if you want it,My treat.


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## F91 (Mar 3, 2002)

The news here in Seattle put a graphic on screen to show in relative terms, that if the New Orleans flood had hit here, the amount of area it would cover. The entire corridor of Seattle north from Shoreline south to SeaTac would be underwater. It was sobering.


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## PhilipMarlowe (Jan 23, 2004)

My favorite New Orleans story, and one that illustrates why it's like no other place in the world.

In '88 I went to New Orleans for Mardi Gras, I've been every year I was in the country from '82 to till 2000 when I met my wife.

On the Monday before Ash Wed. my beloved Camaro was stolen from a paid parking lot. The NO police officer who took the report told me not to expect much, however, if I'd like to make a $100.00 cash donation to the "widows and orphans fund" he'd "personally" keep an eye out for it. I had to call in a chit with a Navy buddy in Huntsville to come get my carless-nearly-broke self. I returned to Panama City swearing I'd never spend another dime in New Orleans.

On Thursday I got a call from the police, my Camaro turned up in the parking lot of the famous Copeland's Restaurant. The cop figured whoever stole it looked at the registration, and since my last name is Copeland, the thief must have thought I was one of _those_ Copelands, and in a moment of good-food-loving-cajun guilt immediately returned it to where he thought the rightful owners were. The car was fine, except for the steering column, a strong odor of pot, and the biggest pair of pink panties I've ever seen in my life in the back seat. And of course, some beads. _Somebody_ had a great Mardi Gras.

Of course I went back the next year, you just gotta love New Orleans!


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## KUROK (Feb 2, 2004)

My wife's family including Uncles, aunts, parents, and cousins lost 18 houses. It's going to be a long road ahead for the Big Easy...


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## ChrisW (Jan 1, 1970)

Cajun WM - I'm sorry to hear about your loss, but glad to know you took the sage advice and evacuated.

You will overcome this. It'll be hard, frustrating, tiring and energizing. Even funny, and you'll be amazed at how you get help from the most unexpected sources. Also, you'll find that your time reference will become "Before Katrina" and "After Katrina". .

We were flooded out in 1972, lost everything but what we took to my grandparents, plus the few things we could salvage. The house stood, but had to be stripped down to the studs. That was in June, in August FEMA brought a camper for us to live in on the front lawn. By December we were partially moved into the house, and the following June had a big party in the neighborhood.

One day we were installing flooring when a truck pulls up full on Mennonite teenagers from Central PA. They jumped right in and helped.

The worse part for my mother was losing all of the family photos, but relatives and friends jumped in and sent back pictures that she sent to them over the years. It was a most welcome gift.

You will overcome. You'll do fine, and come out stronger than before. We're a pretty resilient bunch, us humans.


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## BATBOB (Jul 14, 2003)

I just hope the insurance companies pay out and not try to weasle out.

Granted that it is easier from them to pay out when it's one house or 2 burning down.

To have an entire city flooded is just.......I am at a loss for words.


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## Tholian (Oct 3, 2004)

All I have to say about it is that My Heart goes out to all who were devastated by this catastrophe. Everyone should keep in mind that this happens, and it could happen to you. Another bit of staggering proof that we are all mortal, and at the hands of nature and this world.

Not trying to get philosophical with everyone. But like all tragedies, it hits you in some way or another.

With 9/11, I am a Past Fire Chief, and know the personal loss we had with people who ran into a Building to save others while people were running out.

With Katrina, you have to give the Coast Guard and armed forces, and especially the Red Cross for doing whatever help they can for these people. So a special Kudos to those people and the special work they are doing to help.


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## PhilipMarlowe (Jan 23, 2004)

I'm sure some will say this is negative and inappropriate, but as someone whose been thru multiple major hurricanes in Florida, I'm frankly shocked and appalled how badly the whole New Orleans situation has been handled so far. It's inexcusable nobody thought about reinforcing the levys with sandbags before and immediately after the storm hit. It's inexcusable the media has overflown the Superdome at least twice a day since Monday but apparently nobody has dropped food, water, and first aid supplies to anybody till today. It's inconcievable it took four days to get police and soldiers into _Louisana_.And it's nice the senate voted 10.5 billion in aid, too bad nobody thought of handing poor people forty bucks worth of gas so they could leave Louisiana and Mississippi. If some serious effort isn't made soon this is going to much bigger tragedy than it should have been.

There'll be plenty of time to fix the blame later, and I'm sure there will be plenty to go around, right now they need to fix this problem and get those people help and out of there fast.


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## Cajjunwolfman (Nov 15, 2004)

I just want to thank everyone who offered me their homes, shelter, food, emotional support. I especially thank those of you who offered me special edition models. I am making a spiritual committment to how I am going to live. I am not going to build a model collection again. To much of the focus becomes having, hoarding, poccessing something that I "someday" am going to build. Instead I am going to just work on one model at a time. If I buy it, then I build it. In this manner I think I will enjoy it.
Right now I have food, shelter and am living with my aunts who love me very much. 
Truly,truly I am very disappointed in how this situation is being handled. Unfortuantly as anyone who has lived there or seen how government is administered in "The Big Easy" would have expected no less. It appears no one had a plan or moved proactively. N.O. has had a big problem with murder, violence, and crime for a long time before this. The N.O. police really could not effectively handle the situation prior to the crisis, now they are overwhelmed. I for one am glad to hear that a large number of National Guard are on the way.


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## Steven Coffey (Jan 5, 2005)

Cajjunwolfman ,I live in Austin Tx. I don't know if there is anything I can do to help you out ,but if you need something and I have it I will get it too you some how .


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## Four Mad Men (Jan 26, 2004)

Yes, I think you'll find many here who are willing to help in one way or another.

I know we haven't heard from Chuck during all of this but based upon where I believe his house to be and based upon satellite images coming in for N.O. I can say that as of yesterday morning (the 31st) it does not look like he has been flooded out. Although you don't have to go more than a few hundred feet to the north and west to find places that have been. Twenty-four plus hours is a long time but hopefully that situation is holding. Again this is based upon my belief as to exactly where he is located and it's from over 24 hours ago.

I can say that after seeing the images I'm left at a loss for words. Which is just as well because words can not even begin to describe the situation. And I'll just leave it at that.


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## The-Nightsky (May 10, 2005)

Alot of these people were the poorest of the poor in New Orleans and simply COULDN'T get out.Last night on CNN it was said that up to 50% of the police force deserted the post,That is disgraceful.Anarchy reigns because those people have been without Food and water for several days now.This is what happens when society breaks down and people go from living in the comfort of a modern society to the Stone age in one night.The BEST thing for New Orleans right now would be the declaration of Martial Law in that area.People are like sheep and they NEED the sheepdogs.GOD BLESS the doctors and Nurses who stayed to help.God Bless the Police that stayed.One thing I dont agree with is the suspension of rescue flights because of some Gunfire(isolated)....Bring in the Military Medevac pilots if this is a problem...they know how to pick up wounded from "Hot" L.Z.s.Bring in the troops,Bring some home from Iraq if we have to.Get the food and water to the masses.Just do what it takes to help the people.Thats my 2Cents


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## F91 (Mar 3, 2002)

The median income of an African American living in New Orleans is right at 12K. Rental cars were sold out, hotels were sold out, gas was sold out, busses were sold out. There was NO mass effort to evacuate people, just shelter them in the Superdome.
Out of the hundreds of thousands of people stranded and dying, a few hunded or a thousand are looting? 
BIG FREAKIN DEAL! Wal Mart has insurance, these people are DYING.
American citizens need our help and WE are Americans, and we CARE, that's what we do. We help, It's our moral duty.
Remember the old quote, "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoudrel"?
We now have an even lower refuge, "The Blame Game".
God Save New Orleans.


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## The-Nightsky (May 10, 2005)

Let me add this: If i were there and my children needed diapers and formula,Damn right i'd be visiting a boarded up Wal-mart!I dont agree with the looting of needless things like TvS and Dvds but water and food thats a different story.


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## Cajjunwolfman (Nov 15, 2004)

Four Mad Men. Can you tell me how to view the satellite images from the internet? I would like to view my area and see if I can determine the status.


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## sbaxter (Jan 8, 2002)

I do place _some_ blame on those who could have left and didn't, if they didn't have a good reason to stay. I don't blame those who simply couldn't get out at all.

I also couldn't believe how long it took officials in Louisiana to issue the evacuation order -- had they moved a little more quickly, some others might have been able to escape. I know it was the levees failing that resulted in the worst of the flooding, not the hurricane itself, but it seems as though the hurricane "plan" they had involved a whole lot of crossing fingers. I saw the director of New Orleans emergency management on TV the day before the storm made landfall, and he seemed to be a _very_ frustrated man. There was an undercurrent to what he said that made me think he felt no one there had listened to him until it was too late.

Lots of people in the western Florida panhandle are actually depressed now -- as a visitor to the area out looking around the next day, it is hard to assess the damage from Katrina there because there is still so much visible damage from Ivan, and that was nearly a year ago. 

My girlfriend lives in Milton, a small town just a few miles east of Pensacola. They just got hit by Dennis a few weeks ago. I hear the depression in her voice when she talks about how sick she is of still seeing storm debris from Ivan lining the roads to this day.

Qapla'

SSB


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## F91 (Mar 3, 2002)

I get sick to my stomach reading some of this.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

As for those folks who were capable of walking, they should have left. Period. If they didn't have money, they should have made plans to get out sooner. If I were in a flood prone area UNDER FRIKKIN' SEA LEVEL, I think I'd at least FRIKKIN' WALK to higher ground. It's not rocket science and it doesn't cost any money to WALK. They didn't have a blizzard nor any other storm to walk through, either, if they'd left at a reasonably early time. From what I've observed, walking can sometimes take you faster than a car in evacuation situations.

Besides which, the chance of getting a ride was probably pretty good if you start walking along the road. Why not at least make the attempt instead of staying against MANDATORY evacuation orders in a place BELOW FRIKKIN' SEA LEVELl????

Poor? Right  Irresponsible and unintelligent is more like it in 90+% of the cases, I bet. I'll spend my sorrow on another group of people, thank-you very much and not get too weepy over these self-infliced victims.

BTW: This was not a tidal wave. There was plenty of warning for those who halfway pay attention to what's going on around them.


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## PhilipMarlowe (Jan 23, 2004)

^Whatever, Rush can always justify his remarks too. I hope you two don't mind if some of us are concerned about, oh, the doctors, nurses, infants, icu patients, firemen, cops, and everybody else that couldn't "just walk" that aren't included in your ridiculous argument. I won't even bother muddying up the waters dissecting it completely, but never mind their highly paid elected officials told them NOT to walk out, but go to the shelters.

Gotta say for the first time in long time I'm proud of a American president. Hat's off to George Bush and Co for realizing that the mere presence of the President is going to quell all the excuses and indecision, and inspire the folks on the ground mightily. Screw whose fault this is, let's just save some Americans.

He's right about another thing, the Coast Guard has been the real heros of this mess so far.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

PhilipMarlowe said:


> ^Whatever, Rush can always justify his remarks too.
> . . . Screw whose fault this is, let's just save some Americans.


Well, just be clear on the fact that I didn't mean to torque you and a couple of others off. I'm not being political, I'm just stating the facts and my view on them.

I don't think that what I said was the least bit heartless or unfeeling considering how many lives of decent hardworking people are endangered or lost due to having to rescue and otherwise help reckless and irresponsible people who weren't supposed to be there.  

(I haven't even begun to calculate how much it will COST taxpayers everywhere due to those people's irresponsible behavior. The material damage is bad enough without heaping on problems on top of that.)


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## sbaxter (Jan 8, 2002)

PhilipMarlowe said:


> I hope you two don't mind if some of us are concerned about, oh, the doctors, nurses, infants, icu patients, firemen, cops, and everybody else that couldn't "just walk" that aren't included in your ridiculous argument.


Am I one of the "two" you mean? Of course I don't include emergency personnel who stayed because they were on duty or because they knew they'd be needed. Did you not read what I wrote? Get real. I'm talking about the people who thought they knew better than anyone else and thought all the warnings were a borderline hoax, or thrillseekers, or whatever -- anyone who could have left, knew the storm was coming, had no real reason to stay, but stayed anyway. Having lived in Florida all my life, I know there are such people, and you see them every single time a storm makes landfall.

Infants. Give me a break.  

I wouldn't suggest people shouldn't make donations or help however they can, of course. If you can help, you should.

Qapla'

SSB


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## PhilipMarlowe (Jan 23, 2004)

^ I have no interest in making this political at all, long time members will notice I've even temporarilly changed teams. It doesn't matter if some people brought this on themselves, they're intermingled with folks that didn't.

This isn't the time for political or social commentary, imho. It's time to save some Americans. If that makes me like Oprah, I can live with that.


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## sbaxter (Jan 8, 2002)

PhilipMarlowe said:


> It doesn't matter if some people brought this on themselves, they're intermingled with folks that didn't.


You're correct about that, and I don't advocate an attempt to sort people based on that. We'll help them all, of course. And the area would have taken a pounding with massive property damage no matter what.

Qapla'

SSB


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## PhilipMarlowe (Jan 23, 2004)

sbaxter said:


> Am I one of the "two" you mean?


Actually I didn't, I honestly didn't find your first post inflammatory. If you read it again I meant the Perfesser and Rush. Sorry I wasn't clearer.




sbaxter said:


> Infants. Give me a break.


That's beneath you, Scott. Infants not getting water and formula for five days in _America_ is criminal and inexcusable. Give _me_ a break.


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## sbaxter (Jan 8, 2002)

PhilipMarlowe said:


> Infants not getting water and formula for five days in _America_ is criminal and inexcusable. Give _me_ a break.


No, I was referring to the idea (which I now know you didn't intend) that I was suggesting the infants (and others who were incapable) should have left the city.

No harm, no foul.

Qapla'

SSB


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

PerfesserCoffee said:


> [My original post:] I am *shocked* that so many people stayed behind in a very dangerous place KNOWING that a hurricane was pretty darned sure to hit.
> 
> With as much warning (thanks to modern technology) as they had and as long as the MANDATORY evacuation was in effect people could have WALKED out of N.O. and I can't imagine that for those who were crippled/sick, etc. that there were no methods in place for getting them out somehow.
> 
> ...





sbaxter said:


> Am I one of the "two" you mean? Of course I don't include emergency personnel who stayed because they were on duty or because they knew they'd be needed. Did you not read what I wrote? Get real. I'm talking about the people who thought they knew better than anyone else and thought all the warnings were a borderline hoax, or thrillseekers, or whatever -- anyone who could have left, knew the storm was coming, had no real reason to stay, but stayed anyway. Having lived in Florida all my life, I know there are such people, and you see them every single time a storm makes landfall.
> 
> Infants. Give me a break.


Very well stated, sbaxter!

I don't think we two are making this political. We're simply commenting on individual personal resposibility and civic duty or the lack thereof among many. 



PhilipMarlowe said:


> This isn't the time for . . . social commentary . . .


I have no problem making observations on what went wrong there. I'm not on the ground there and don't think my comments represent any sort of incitement to not help folks there. (For example, I'm not a cop who's lost everything throwing his badge on the ground and leaving the area because he doesn't want to risk his life.)

I feel no need for self-censorship on the problem of the behavior of the people who stayed. It's self-evident (or should be) what responsible citizens should have done in reaction to warnings of a hurricane. I'm simply pointing that out. A million people leave and 200,000 stay. If a million folks can get out of town, why not another 200,000?

Sure, help them, give them money whatever you want to do. I will still hold those who were physically able and over 21 responsible for endangering their lives, endangering the lives of people in their care, and endangering the lives of those who've come to help.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

PhilipMarlowe said:


> Gotta say for the first time in long time I'm proud of a American president. Hat's off to George Bush and Co for realizing that the mere presence of the President is going to quell all the excuses and indecision, and inspire the folks on the ground mightily.


 You're kiddin, right? We'll be lucky if the fuselade of bullets that come his way when he shows up leaves a scrap of hair behind! The folks trying to escape down there are NOT happy with him right now.


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## PhilipMarlowe (Jan 23, 2004)

John P said:


> You're kiddin, right? We'll be lucky if the fuselade of bullets that come his way when he shows up leaves a scrap of hair behind! The folks trying to escape down there are NOT happy with him right now.


Not at all, _nobody_ want's to be the guy to tell the President "I can't do that".Especially not on television. That alone will really help cut thru the confusion and disorder, imho.

And just to show what a bleeding heart liberal I really am, I sincerely hope the looters and troublemakers _try_ to stand up to the National Guard. Or take a shot at the President.

And remember, despite all the rumours about how dangerous it is, remember MSNBC and Harry Connick Jr have been in and out of the convention center at least twice in 24 hours I've seen. They weren't attacked or mobbed for their water, people were pleading for help and their lives.


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## F91 (Mar 3, 2002)

The color of a persons's skin shouldn't make a difference, I was stating that the majority of the people stranded in NO couldn't afford to leave. Weird how that morphs into whether a person is "worth" being rescued...
BTW, For Us Christian followers on the board, do you think Jesus would blame anyone for staying behind? Debate their worth? Accuse?
I don't.


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## 747 (Oct 11, 2001)

^um, yeah, what JP said. On BBC News they had a quote from W saying that he is appalled by the relief efforts. Um.... isn't he ultimately responsible for that?


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## F91 (Mar 3, 2002)

I noticed during the President's briefing that Mississippi Govenor Barbour took great pains to tell the president how prepared everyone was and what a great job the Federal government is doing.


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## The-Nightsky (May 10, 2005)

Thom S. said:


> You guys want to make a difference, instead of arguing back and forth?
> 
> Do something.
> 
> http://www.redcross.org/donate/donate.html


I already Have! I donated to the Red Cross
:thumbsup:


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,168307,00.html



Mayor of New Orleans said:


> Bush viewed the damage while flying over the region Wednesday en route to Washington after cutting short his Texas vacation by two days.
> 
> "They flew down here one time two days after the doggone event was over with TV cameras, AP reporters, all kind of goddamn — *excuse my French everybody in America, but I am pissed*," Nagin said.
> 
> Nagin said he told Bush in a recent conversation that "we had an incredible crisis here and that his flying over in Air Force One does not do it justice ... I have been all around this city and that I am very frustrated because we are not able to marshal resources and we are outmanned in just about every respect."


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## PhilipMarlowe (Jan 23, 2004)

I understand the Mayors frustration, but he'd have a lot more credibility with me if he had led a gang of volunteers in throwing sandbags on the levys Friday, Saturday, and Monday mornings. Or had stayed with his stranded constituents.


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## Zorro (Jun 22, 1999)

One of the worst aspects of this disaster is that it has been accurately predicted for years.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Zorro said:


> One of the worst aspects of this disaster is that it has been accurately predicted for years.


The degree to which it was accurately predicted is absolutely astonishing!


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## Steven Coffey (Jan 5, 2005)

I started this thread to help us not forget about our fellow builders and friends and our fellow Americans who are trapped in the area hit by this Hurricane .I did not start this for it to become a political argument or a blame session .Keep this thread on track ,please .I don't want to close it .When we come out of this there will be thousands killed and some of them maybe people who posted here .


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

This might be of some help to those who want to contribute material aid to organizations working in the area:

foxnews.com/story/0,2933,168292,00.html



> Friday, September 02, 2005
> By Gail Buckner, CFP
> 
> Crisis Worsens in New Orleans
> ...


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## lonfan (Feb 11, 2001)

BATBOB said:


> I just hope the insurance companies pay out and not try to weasle out.
> 
> Granted that it is easier from them to pay out when it's one house or 2 burning down.
> 
> To have an entire city flooded is just.......I am at a loss for words.


Saddly Bob, It would seem the Insurance Companies are already "Weasling Out" By saying that (And I quote from NBC News) "SOME Insurance Co.s Are Not Letting People Claim Reasoning That This Is NOT a Natural Disaster But Rather a Man-Made Malfuntion Of The Levees" (Pardon my poor Spelling) Anyhoo, this is leaving Many of the Newly Homeless to Appeal this Desicion with the Local Goverment. This IMHO is TOTALLY F-ed Up! And It Doesn't stop with the Insurance Companies, I Never EVER Voiced my Opinion in other Political Threads here But This Just Reinforces my already Very Low Opinion of our Idiot And Chief. G. W. Needs to Go back to Crawford and Go back to reading "My Pet Goat" Orleans is Turning into Mad Max Country! Hospitals are being attacked,Children are being raped! What Is Bush Doing? Aw Gee Wiz he had to End his Vacation Early. I'm Soooo sorry for his loss,Hey you can deny Everything I'm saying about YOUR President But you can NOT deny The Pleading of the People Wading around in the Water with the Corpse's and Disease. I wish I could Personally Help. My Wife's Cousin in Naples Fl. has her Entire In-laws (Five or Six Folks) in her home from New Orleans.All these Folks had was the Clothes on their back. I just can not believe in this Technological Age we aren't better equipped for this type of thing.

JOHN/LONFAN


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## Zorro (Jun 22, 1999)

I contributed money to the Red Cross yesterday. Almost saw a fight at the gas pumps today. Uncivil and civil behavior isn't limited to the areas immediately affected. Americans need to get their priorities straight. And that's not a political statement. Or is it?


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Zorro said:


> I contributed money to the Red Cross yesterday. Almost saw a fight at the gas pumps today. Uncivil and civil behavior isn't limited to the areas immediately affected. Americans need to get their priorities straight. And that's not a political statement. Or is it?


I very much concur. 

In addition, that is not a political statement. That is a statement regarding the morals and ethics of our society. I congratulate you on your clear vision and reasonable priorities. :thumbsup:


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## PhilipMarlowe (Jan 23, 2004)

You really got to like ol' Harry Connick Jr. He sure as heck comes off as a nice guy and a real New Orlean.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

I hope the clean-up can start soon and dry New Orleans out. 

Right now it is an open sewer and there are many serious public health concerns. I've read many reports concerning the contents of the water, not least of which are human corpses. (I can't imagine anyone wanting to stay in that filthy, disease ridden environment as it is now. I can almost understand the cops quitting on the spot.) 

I'm afraid the worst is not over yet. There could be more deaths to come than there have been already.

Civilization requires that sanitation be maintained in any large gathering of people (history is full of examples of primitive people being incapable of fulfilling this requirement and the resulting widespread deaths and the destruction of their civilizations due to lack of sanitation.) 

There will probably be many deaths due to those staying behind getting and spreading infectious disease. It will surely be a long time before the contamination is cleaned up. 

We should all pray for a speedy recovery for the city and that it is rebuilt so that it will no longer be subject to such widespread damage from being below sea level. I hope those who left will be able to come back soon and take care of their property and hopefully be able to settle in again at that very important city.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

These are some darned good people! I rec'd this email from this company just now:



> Dear Valued Customer:
> 
> 
> Community Coffee Company's primary concern today is the health and well-being of our employees, customers and citizens affected by Hurricane Katrina.
> ...


One great thing about coffee is that the water is boiled before drinking and that of course kills many disease causing bacteria--a perfect energizing drink for the rescue workers down there. :thumbsup:


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## grantf (Feb 2, 2004)

Awful, just awful. maybe the federal Gov. will learn from this and next time bring in aid 3 days later instead of 4. Any word on Chuck PR ?


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## lonfan (Feb 11, 2001)

I Must Apologize For My Words about Bush. Doesnt Change my Opinion BUT this thread AIN'T for my opinion I just pray our Friends from this board and EVERYONE ELSE there get what they need and Our prayers are with them.and I DID make a Small Contribution 25 Bucks was all we could do I just hope they really get it! PS. I survived Andrew in Homestead I even met my Wife in that I volunteered and served Food with the Red Cross, But I gotta admitt,I kinda did that as much to help as to Meet Gloria Estefan! lol Kidding,I do love Gloria but I really felt good Serving up HUNDREDS of BBQ'ed Chickens for Weeks to folks who needed them and again I met the Love Of my Life! No not Gloria jeeze We've been together 13 Years this past Saturday AUG 27th!!:hat: 

Lon/John


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## 747 (Oct 11, 2001)

lonfan said:


> I Must Apologize For My Words about Bush. Doesn’t Change my Opinion BUT this thread AIN'T for my opinion


I have to disagree with you lonfan, your opinion with everyone else’s is important and makes these BB's what they are. Provokes thought and debate about what is important. I can't help but remember a DS9 episode when Quark talks about how great hu-mons are; provided their bellies are full and they are happy. Take us out of our comfort zone and it seems to become a free for all.


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## capt Locknar (Dec 29, 2002)

Just remember guys, we all have opinions and even if we disagree with them please lets keep it civil. 

Thomas and I are both up to our You know whats in casting and work right now and Poor Steven is probably on the verge of quitting on us as a co moderator. 

lets keep it clean, remember there are younger people viewing the forums some times.


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## F91 (Mar 3, 2002)

Dave, thanks for the forum, I appreciate you letting us vent. I promise to be good.


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## Steven Coffey (Jan 5, 2005)

Can't get rid of me that easily ! :tongue: Just keep things civil and don't take things personally and also don't make them personal then everybody gets along.


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## lonfan (Feb 11, 2001)

Agreed F91 and Thanks747- I'm watching this Tucker Carlson show right now and I just looked in on my Sleeping Brats I gotta admitt I did shed a tear Well the eyes got all Glassy (Pre-Tears) Hey I might be a Scum Bag in my Business Dealings here, but I have an Abnormaly large Heart Those children in New orleans wearing Disposable Diapers for THREE Days My God! If Sending them my Entire Kit collection would help they can have it. I just wish I could send these People ALL the Cash I wasted in Booze back before I had a Care in the world for anyone but myself


John tonight it's just John


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## scotpens (Sep 6, 2003)

*How dry I am, how dry I am. . .*



PerfesserCoffee said:


> One great thing about coffee is that the water is boiled before drinking and that of course kills many disease causing bacteria--a perfect energizing drink for the rescue workers down there. :thumbsup:


Historical note: Because of the sanitary conditions (or lack thereof) in 17th and 18th century European cities, the people there seldom drank plain water. They drank huge amounts of coffee, tea, wine, spirits, and, of course, BEER! (Although it's probably a good idea for rescue workers and those responsible for restoring law and order to stay sober!)


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## spe130 (Apr 13, 2004)

I don't know...if I was stuck down there, I think I'd be volunteering to guard Pat O'Brien's...


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

scotpens said:


> Historical note: Because of the sanitary conditions (or lack thereof) in 17th and 18th century European cities, the people there seldom drank plain water. They drank huge amounts of coffee, tea, wine, spirits, and, of course, BEER! (Although it's probably a good idea for rescue workers and those responsible for restoring law and order to stay sober!)


 :roll:


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## PhilipMarlowe (Jan 23, 2004)

It is interesting to compare the perceptions of the people stranded in New Orleans, illustrated pretty clearly by this:

http://www.snopes.com/photos/katrina/looters.asp

One thing not clear in the low res pictures, the Americans in _both_ photos are carrying food.

On a more positive note, they said last night the Coast Guard Helicopter crews have rescued over 4,000 people. Do any of you aicraft buffs know how many they can carry at a time? I'm guessing it can't be more than 4-6, it's an impressive and heroic feat however many they can carry.


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## The-Nightsky (May 10, 2005)

Those Marine Ch-46 Seaknights can carry about 30,Ch-53 Jolly green giants can carry about the same depending on interior configuration.The coast guard Jayhawks I'm Not sure about but regular Black hawks can carry 10 I think.(we needed 3 for our Platoon when I was in the AirCav)Those numbers are from memory but I think I'm pretty close


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

I'd be surprised if something the size of an H-53 could only carry ten!


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## The-Nightsky (May 10, 2005)

John P said:


> I'd be surprised if something the size of an H-53 could only carry ten!


Troop carrying black hawks can carry about 10 troops not including crew,Ch-53 can carry about 30 or so,Im not 100% about those numbersas they are from memory.Ch-53 may very well be able to carry more than 30,unless its a Pave-Low or a Gunship inwhich case interior space is limited to electronics and armament.


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## PhilipMarlowe (Jan 23, 2004)

This site mentions the Jayhawks can carry 6, but I'd imagine they can cram a few more in in an emergency.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/hh-60j.htm


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## Pygar (Feb 26, 2000)

I knew somehow or other, the weather would get blamed on the President... 

I am certain that as quickly as supplies could be moved and distribution co-ordinated, it was done, and that it wouldn't take him physically being there to make it happen. If he had showed up on Day One, the only difference would be that they'd be sneering at him for "turning a tragedy into a photo-op". I'm sure they still will.

Meanwhile, from what my sister tells me, the school bus fleet is sitting in water, rusting safely. All except one bus, stolen/commandeered by an ordinary Joe who rounded up a busload of victims on his own, and everyone pooled gas money to Texas... Ask the Mayor why a bus had to be stolen in order to get a few dozen to safety, and why the whole fleet isn't on the road, right now, shuttling refugees to help. What did he accomplish by leaving them to sit in the floodwaters?

They are already trying to blame the levee break on the USG. I am not quite sure why they think the US taxpayer was supposed to foot a continual huge bill so they could make low levees out of dirt, and keep repairing them... instead of high ones out of concrete like any other dam, and pay for it themselves. They've been there 300 years and knew darn well what happens to dirt levees once water crests over the top. Why is it the whole country's job to pay for their decision to live in a dirt-rimmed bowl surrounded by water? Now, despite the inevitable nature of this disaster, we will all be stuck with a huge bill for (no pun intended) bailing them out.

If I were the President, I would tell them they've seen the last red Federal cent they will ever see for piling up dirt into a pretend dam. You can pour a lot of concrete in a century, let alone three.

And no, I'm not a Republican. Just interested in seeing the blame go to the local government that deserves it, instead of the national one that should never have had to send dime one in the first place to get real protection built.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

I agree. There's been a project here going on for the past few years to build a back up dam out of concrete (the original built by the Feds several decades ago is earthen) in order to prevent a potential flooding (catastrophic) of Columbia, SC and environs in case of an earthquake (we sit on a fault line up here). If I'm not mistaken, the power company and state of SC are paying for it (with, I'm sure, some federal funds). 

The point is, if folks here had enough sense to take care of a problem before it happened, it boggles the mind that folks in N.O. couldn't have done something about it ahead of time.

Apparently _our_ corrupt local government is better than _thei_r corrupt local government.


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## Joel (Jul 27, 1999)

Pygar said:


> I knew somehow or other, the weather would get blamed on the President...
> 
> I am certain that as quickly as supplies could be moved and distribution co-ordinated, it was done, and that it wouldn't take him physically being there to make it happen. If he had showed up on Day One, the only difference would be that they'd be sneering at him for "turning a tragedy into a photo-op". I'm sure they still will.
> 
> ...


Sorry to say, but that shows how little you know about what's really going on down here.


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## F91 (Mar 3, 2002)

Joel, You have to understand, some folks don't want to believe what's going on down there. Bursts their bubble.
How is Baton Rouge holding up? Is there anything you need? 
We've already sent money to NO.


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## Pygar (Feb 26, 2000)

I know and believe what is going on down there. Too much water came in, and took out the low, dirt levees that should have been high, concrete levees. What do *you* think happened down there? F91, what on Earth are you talking about... "bubble bursting"? You don't have to be Einstein to know that making water containment out of nonwaterproof materials is going to work about as well as a screendoor on a submarine. 

Or is it the politics? The notion that some have, that I don't, that the USG is there to shield people from the consequences of their actions and inactions... like not building adequate containment facilities for the water surrounding them? That using buses to save lives, rather than let them sit, is a good idea? That locating and coordinating disaster relief is not as quick as buying candy from a gum machine? That the local government's failure to plan for the inevitable disaster they created, is their own fault? That there was nothing Bush could have done if he had magically teleported straight into downtown on Day One? What do these people expect him to do, strike his rod against a stone and bring forth dry?

"Sorry to say" that neither of you had anything *substantive* to say. That is not a dig against you personally, as Joel's comment was about me. I am simply saying that saying "you're wrong" and going away has *not* shown me to be wrong.


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## spe130 (Apr 13, 2004)

Umm...even Bush said that FEMA's response was totally inadequate. He admitted that the feds screwed up (a very rare event, for him to admit an error by his administration) - why can't you? Who are you? Rush Limbaugh? Ann Coulter? 

Earthen levees are standard in most flood zones - ever lived near one? I guess not, you obviously don't know that, or understand how they work. Many fairly large dams have been built out of dirt. They work fine, until the water level gets so high that it goes over the top, at which time things start to go downhill quickly. This, rather obviously, means that water was already coming in to the city when the levees broke, as it had to go over the top of the levees to break them in the first place.

Frak the poor doesn't work as a mentality, unless you are a very angry person. Try lightening up a bit. Have a drink. Watch a sunset. Relax.

Newt Gingrich, never known as the world's most compassionate human being, blasted FEMA today, saying that if they can't respond to something they knew was coming for three days, there is no way that they are ready to deal with a nuclear or biological terrorist attack.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

spe130 said:


> Earthen levees are standard in most flood zones - ever lived near one?


I do and apparently they're not all they're cracked up to be or we wouldn't be spending millions of dollars to replace it with a dam that will work.



> Frak the poor doesn't work as a mentality, unless you are a very angry person. Try lightening up a bit. Have a drink. Watch a sunset. Relax.


Unless I missed something, no one said "Frak the poor". Expecting poor people to be good, responsible citizens is not asking too much. 

I suppose some people may consider them incapable of being good, responsible citizens but _I _think they are_ fully capable _of good behavior. 

Someone else needs to relax, methinks.



> Newt Gingrich . . . blasted FEMA today, saying that if they can't respond to something they knew was coming for three days, there is no way that they are ready to deal with a nuclear or biological terrorist attack.


That's a very good point. What we have here is a practice for many different possible terrorist attacks. The difference being that there will be little or no warning in case of a planned attack against a city so there will probably be no real evacuation prior to the event. 

Since there's no way in the world the government will ever be able to take care of everyone nor prevent every possible situation from occurring, just as the police can't prevent crime in 99% of the cases, people will have to be responsible citizens and take care of themselves and their families, neighbors, and communities themselves as much as possible instead of descending into viscious, murderous behavior against each other and those who come in to try to help them.

IMHO, there should be government civil defense training and preparations reinstituted to help folks get ready for the eventual disasters and terrorist attacks. It's scary to think about but, if we're responsible as citizens and as a country, we _will_ think about it and quit living as if every day is going to be as wonderful and carefree as the day before. 

*This is real life, gentlemen. * Despite CNN and FOX News, this is not a Lifetime movie tearjerker where we can self-righteously wail over other folks' troubles for a while and then turn off the TV and go to sleep on the couch. 

Sure, we can send them $20 and pat ourselves on the back and feel like we've _really_ done something and then forget all about it.  That, however, won't help matters when the disaster hits _your_ neighborhood. We need to be prepared.

Mark my words: we _will_ be hit with a nuke eventually by some terrorist organization/country. Just as I wasn't surprised by fact of the attack on New York (though still shocked by the actual carnage) I won't be surprised if a major city gets hit with a nuke. There are plenty floating around out there unaccounted for now and the toothpaste is out of the tube as far as the technology is concerned. Of course there are hundreds of possible terrorist attack scenarios, including chemical attacks from sabotaged trains from across our still open borders. How ready are you to_ really_ help in such a situation?

We may have to give up buying and building some plastic model kits in order to have arms, food, water, gas masks, and emergency shelters ready for what trouble may lie ahead in the future.


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## F91 (Mar 3, 2002)

So, thousands of people dying in a disaster, that's real life? Thanks for the heads up. How's the bunker coming?


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

F91 said:


> So, thousands of people dying in a disaster, that's real life? Thanks for the heads up.


Hmmm! I really thought my point about the mere gestures, the 'tokenism', of those who throw a few dollars at a problem then go back to gluing their fingers together was very well made.

I'm sorry you didn't understand.  



> How's the bunker coming?


If you'll read some books on civil defense, a bunker (underground shelter) isn't necessary and I don't think I'd want to rely on one in a flood prone area, anyways.


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## F91 (Mar 3, 2002)

BTW, I judiciously applied the "ignore user" feature to allow the thread to stay open and to keep myself from getting banned.  
Freedom of speech is great, but I can't condone the heartlessness of a few or their disdain for people who actually care about other human beings besides themselves.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

F91 said:


> BTW, I judiciously applied the "ignore user" feature to allow the thread to stay open and to keep myself from getting banned.
> 
> Freedom of speech is great, but I can't condone the heartlessness of a few or their disdain for people who actually care about other human beings besides themselves.


No problem, F91. :thumbsup: I understand that some folks have difficulties controlling their own behavior as well as display tendencies towards making excuses for others' bad behavior.

BTW: I consider it a false dilemma to a$$ume that one is either "heartless" or his heart bleeds profusely to the point that he'll drastically lower expectations of what good behavior human beings are capable of in bad situations. 

 Freedom of speech sucks when people don't agree with you, eh?


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## PhilipMarlowe (Jan 23, 2004)

When the Japanese were completely handing us our hats in business back in the eighties it was attributed to several factors, including that they didn't play fair with importing.And some of those points were true and valid.

But people who actually studied them, and therefore actually had an informed opinion,(versus engaging in blind jingoism like "we're number one") concluded a lot of their success was attributable to a simple management philosophy, 
"Fix the problem, not the blame".

Might be a lesson there somewhere. As always, YMMV.


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## F91 (Mar 3, 2002)

Ok, I'll bite, YMMV?


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## PhilipMarlowe (Jan 23, 2004)

Pygar said:


> I knew somehow or other, the weather would get blamed on the President...


As I stated previously, I think the President did a pretty good job during the hurricane itself. However, I can see why this timeline from the Washington monthly upsets some people:



> "CHRONOLOGY....Here's a timeline that outlines the fate of both FEMA and flood control projects in New Orleans under the Bush administration. Read it and weep:
> 
> January 2001: Bush appoints Joe Allbaugh, a crony from Texas, as head of FEMA. Allbaugh has no previous experience in disaster management.
> 
> ...


.


Obviously the site has a political slant and I don't agree with some of the author's opinions(especially at the end), but the names, dates, and actions are correct. And it the most concise timeline I found on a quickie google search.


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## PhilipMarlowe (Jan 23, 2004)

F91 said:


> Ok, I'll bite, YMMV?


Your milage may vary. Shorthand for there are other points of view and opinions.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

PhilipMarlowe said:


> When the Japanese were completely handing us our hats in business back in the eighties it was attributed to several factors, including that they didn't play fair with importing.And some of those points were true and valid.
> 
> But people who actually studied them, and therefore actually had an informed opinion,(versus engaging in blind jingoism like "we're number one") concluded a lot of their success was attributable to a simple management philosophy,
> "Fix the problem, not the blame".


Very good example, PM! :thumbsup: 

Logic (if one is so inclined to_ think _about the processes involved) indicates that fixing the problem involves first identifying the the causes ('fixing the blame' in other words) in order that the causes may be corrected. 

I don't think anyone is criticizing on this board without the intent of identifying the problems so that they may be corrected. 

Such analyses and thoughts show more good intentions, IMHO, than simply bemoaning the fact that such and such happened and that so and so are suffering _ad infinitum_. 

I welcome hearing problem identifying/solving opinions, whether I agree with them or not. It encourages me that people care enough to want to stop such events from happening in the future. 

Now, if they'll only contact their government representatives . . .


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## PhilipMarlowe (Jan 23, 2004)

In deference to the request of our fearless moderator's, all I will say is I don't agree with the Perfesser's re-interpretation of what I said, and I don't believe he understood the point I was trying to make.


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## capt Locknar (Dec 29, 2002)

Well on a more non political note. My sister is now on her way up here to us. The Navy gave her orders today which basically said they were released to go find help where they could. I haven't the slightest idea what the hell that means (i was in the army for 6-7 years and we were never left to fend for ourselves when something destroyed our base) and now we're not even sure where the heck to put her and her 3 kids when they get here. This is gonna be fun.


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## F91 (Mar 3, 2002)

Capt, I don't know if this helps or not, but Moveon.org has over 40,000 people that have volunteered to help house people during the crisis, perhaps they could help out?

http://www.hurricanehousing.org/

Folks,If you read this list of volunteers, It gives you a pretty good God Damned idea what it means to be an American.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

capt Locknar said:


> Well on a more non political note. My sister is now on her way up here to us. The Navy gave her orders today which basically said they were released to go find help where they could. I haven't the slightest idea what the hell that means (i was in the army for 6-7 years and we were never left to fend for ourselves when something destroyed our base) and now we're not even sure where the heck to put her and her 3 kids when they get here. This is gonna be fun.


When Hugo hit Charleston, I was on leave and told to stay put for 10 extra days until the ship was able to get back. The base was a wreck and I was in daily contact with the ship's XO with whom I'd driven to Alabama and who kept up with what was going on.

When I got back, it turns out the acting XO (quite the OCD type) had written me up for being AWOL despite having knowledge of where I was. The real XO tore up the report when he got back.

In other words, I think the Navy just wings it in situations like this.  I've never come across any specific directions for handling personnel displaced by natural disasters.


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## capt Locknar (Dec 29, 2002)

Well we got a hold of a friend that has some room thank the gods. I may offer up to take her two youngest ones for a while if she wants since we live right next door to school. It will be up to her though. They are boys and since i have a boy too they would help keep each other occupied lol. She does have a government credit card thats activated in times like this but I'm not sure what they can use it for. I know gas and hotel rooms are a given but I'm not sure about temporary housing rent or something, or even food for that matter. She left Jackson Tennessee this morning so may be here later this evening or tomorrow sometime.


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## F91 (Mar 3, 2002)

Dave,
Do the kids need clothes? Seriously, let me know.
My Mom lives in Crossville, TN and I know her church would have loved to help out and given her a place to stay overnight.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

This is impressive:
:thumbsup: 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050904/ap_on_re_mi_ea/katrina_mideast_hk4



> Kuwait Pledges $500M for Hurricane Relief
> 
> KUWAIT CITY - The oil-rich Persian Gulf state of
> Kuwait said Sunday it will donate $500 million in aid
> ...


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## capt Locknar (Dec 29, 2002)

F91 said:


> Dave,
> Do the kids need clothes? Seriously, let me know.
> My Mom lives in Crossville, TN and I know her church would have loved to help out and given her a place to stay overnight.


I'm sure they will when they get here. The bad thing is that my son is just a tad bit younger than her youngest so most of his clothes won't fit him. They are driving straight on up from tennessee. I live about 45 miles from mom and dad and they are gonna call once my sis and kids get into town. To my knowledge just about everything was left behind including the cats. She left food out for the cats when she left but I'm sure that won't be enough. Cats are very resourceful so I am sure they will be fine. The other bad part is, Dad is on SS Retirement now and I am on VA disability and our two pay periods are over with so this is gonna be fun. I may have to put up some models on the swap board to get a little bit of extra cash to get some more food.I mean we have food in our cupboards but not much lol. I'll let everyone know when I go through my models and get them posted up. She should be here later tonite, around midnite or so.


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## capt Locknar (Dec 29, 2002)

PerfesserCoffee said:


> This is impressive:


It sure looks impressive, and not to start everyone ranting again but how much of this monetary support is really gonna go to the people that need it. The main problem with donations and such is its the Group that is accepting them that determines where the money goes. Its like the united way a few years back. All the donation money that the higher ups used to take bahama vacations. And Look at the Red Cross during 9-11, collected god knows how much for the victims of that tragedy then all of a sudden they found something else that was more important to use all those donations for. I can't remember exactly all the details but I do remember crap like that. My sister is a single parent of 3 kids, one thats 14, one thats 9 and one thats 6. She has no renters insurance, or anything thats gonna cover all the stuff that was in her house. I'm just waiting to really see what kind of assistance she is gonna get from the red cross or salvation army when she gets here. Yeah she'll have some assistant from the military but in most instances those are just loans that need to be repayed back to the military. I'll make sure I let everyone know what the red cross and salvation army tell her. I am very sceptical about these types of organizations anymore. I prefer to donate directly to the people if i can.


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## PhilipMarlowe (Jan 23, 2004)

From the Houston Chronicle:



> Halliburton gets Katrina contract, hires former FEMA director
> 1 Sept. 2005
> WASHINGTON, Sept. 1 The US Navy asked Halliburton to repair naval facilities damaged by Hurricane Katrina, the Houston Chronicle reported today. The work was assigned to Halliburton's KBR subsidiary under the Navy's $500 million CONCAP contract awarded to KBR in 2001 and renewed in 2004. The repairs will take place in Louisiana and Mississippi.
> 
> ...


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## The-Nightsky (May 10, 2005)

Betcha didnt see that coming!!!LOL!


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## F91 (Mar 3, 2002)

So, you guys don't believe in coincidences?


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## capt Locknar (Dec 29, 2002)

Wow this haliburton must be some top notch company. Go figure.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

capt Locknar said:


> It sure looks impressive, and not to start everyone ranting again but how much of this monetary support is really gonna go to the people that need it. The main problem with donations and such is its the Group that is accepting them that determines where the money goes . . .


I agree. I almost linked to an article discussing that very thing but thought better of it.

I think you have the right idea helping out individuals when possible. :thumbsup:


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

<< Wow this haliburton must be some top notch company. Go figure. >>

YEP! Any other company have ALL the components to do the work? Ships, experts, access to giant fabrication centers? Anybody heard of MITRE? They have similar contracts in the physics/Science arena.


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## PhilipMarlowe (Jan 23, 2004)

From the Boston Herald:



> Brown pushed from last job: Horse group: FEMA chief had to be `asked to resign'
> By Brett Arends
> Saturday, September 3, 2005 - Updated: 02:01 PM EST
> 
> ...


And this assessment from Kate Hale, former Miami-Dade 
emergency management chief: 



> "He's done a hell of a job, because I'm not aware of any Arabian horses being killed in this storm. The world that this man operated in and
> the focus of this work does not in any way translate to this. He does not have the experience."


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## capt Locknar (Dec 29, 2002)

PhilipMarlowe said:


> Brown - formerly an estates and family lawyer - this week has has made several shocking public admissions, including interviews where he suggested FEMA was unaware of the misery and desperation of refugees stranded at the New Orleans convention center.


So I am taking it that Fema actually has no TV's or even a radio.


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## F91 (Mar 3, 2002)

Sounds like yet another Presidential Medal of Freedom winner, the highest honor any civilian can recieve.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Fascinating reading from the local government's disaster plan in New Orleans.  Looks like the Fed is not the only part of the emergency response that didn't live up to expectations:



http://www.cityofno.com/portal.aspx?portal=46&tabid=26



> PART 2: EVACUATION
> 
> I. GENERAL
> 
> ...





> II. CONCEPT OF OPERATIONS
> 
> *The lead agency responsible for coordinating recovery operations following a natural or man made disaster is the Office of Emergency Preparedness. *The Director of the Office of Emergency Preparedness shall serve as the initial contact with the Louisiana Office of Emergency Preparedness for the coordination of recovery efforts. In the event of a major or catastrophic event, the activated ESFs within the EOC shall provide liaison services to their corresponding State and Federal ESFs and related agencies. Following the establishment of a local Disaster Field Office (DFO), the Director of Emergency Preparedness shall designate the person(s) to serve as local liaison with the DFO. For certain hazard or incident specific incidents, the lead response agency may continue to be the City's principle coordinating representative.


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## Zorro (Jun 22, 1999)

Just to clarify, it was my impression after watching "60 Minutes" last night that the Mayor did in fact order total evacuation of New Orleans 48 hours before the hurricane hit. Also, another clarification for those who don't know - none of the levees in New Orleans were breached. They _did_ overflow, and it was the two-foot thick "flood walls" on the outer perimeter which gave way. Like 9/11, it's going to be months and years before responsibility for both adequate preparation and response for this disaster becomes really clear.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

^^Right, Zorro. I'm not really arguing with anyone on those points. 

It just seems that, from a cursory, preliminary, outsider's look at everything that not only did the various levels of government fail both before and after the hurricane but many individuals did not act responsibly. 

I hope this spectacular failure is an impetus to better prepare in the future to prevent such a massive loss of life and property.


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## PhilipMarlowe (Jan 23, 2004)

I personally think the Mayor of NO had a lot of gall pointing fingers. It does seem the local government made serious mistakes.

However, the problem with Louisana politicians is a problem for the people of Louisana to worry about and deal with.

The problems of the federal response should be the concern of everyone, especially people that live in a state with a coastline.


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## PhilipMarlowe (Jan 23, 2004)

In case anybody missed it, _Meet the Press_ was pretty eyebrow raising yesterday, heres the exchanges I thought most important:



> MR. RUSSERT: Now, let's turn to Hurricane Katrina. Joining us is the man in charge of the federal response to the disaster, the director of Homeland Security, Michael Chertoff.
> 
> Mr. Secretary, this is yesterday's Daily News: "Shame Of A Nation." And I want to read it to you and our viewers very carefully. It says, "As for Chertoff, if this is the best his department can do, the homeland is not very secure at all. It is absolutely outrageous that the United States of America could not send help to tens of thousands of forlorn, frightened, sick and hungry human beings at least 24 hours before it did, arguably longer than that. Who is specifically at fault for what is nothing less than a national scandal... It will never be known exactly what a day could have meant to so many unfortunates whose lives came to an end in those hopelessly tortured hours--on scorching roadsides, for lack of a swallow of water, in sweltering hospital bads, for lack of insulin. But what is already more than clear is that the nation's disaster-preparedness mechanisms do not appear to be in the hands of officials who know how to run them."
> 
> ...


Aaron Broussard had a different take on FEMA's effectiveness:



> Let me give you just three quick examples. We had Wal-Mart deliver three trucks of water, trailer trucks of water. FEMA turned them back. They said we didn't need them. This was a week ago. FEMA--we had 1,000 gallons of diesel fuel on a Coast Guard vessel docked in my parish. The Coast Guard said, "Come get the fuel right away." When we got there with our trucks, they got a word. "FEMA says don't give you the fuel." Yesterday--yesterday--FEMA comes in and cuts all of our emergency communication lines. They cut them without notice. Our sheriff, Harry Lee, goes back in, he reconnects the line. He posts armed guards on our line and says, "No one is getting near these lines." Sheriff Harry Lee said that if America--American government would have responded like Wal-Mart has responded, we wouldn't be in this crisis.


The entire show was pretty interesting to folks in hurricane country:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9179790/

It's interesting to note the secretary of homeland defense says the president has ordered no evaluation of performance till the crisis is completely over.

But if this is going to takes years, as the secretary also suggest, we're just supposed to leave the same people that have dropped the ball in charge of a multi-billion dollar recovery?


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## Lloyd Collins (Sep 25, 2004)

Do I sense surprise here. This is our government at it's best for Americans. Now if this was another country, relief would have been there fast. Americans only count for taxes, and votes. Nothing more.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

PhilipMarlowe said:


> I personally think the Mayor of NO had a lot of gall pointing fingers. It does seem the local government made serious mistakes.
> 
> However, the problem with Louisana politicians is a problem for the people of Louisana to worry about and deal with.
> 
> The problems of the federal response should be the concern of everyone, especially people that live in a state with a coastline.


Well stated, PM! :thumbsup:


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Lloyd Collins said:


> Do I sense surprise here. This is our government at it's best for Americans. Now if this was another country, relief would have been there fast. Americans only count for taxes, and votes. Nothing more.


Good point, Lloyd! It seems we bend over backwards for others but are kind of lax taking things in hand here.


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## capt Locknar (Dec 29, 2002)

Well My sister got into town last nite and we drove in to mom and dads and saw her today. We have her two boys with us to spend the nite tonite and she'll be out to our place tomorrow. 

Well, Her Goverment Issued card only covers up to a 500 mile evacuation from her home station. So basically all the gas from 500 miles out of NO has been out of her pocket. I also talked to her about stuff for her and the kids. She's not mainly concerned about herself as the military can issue her new uniforms if needed. However they were under the impression (from the officials yet again) that this was just gonna be like all the other evacuations, 3-4 days tops. They didn't bother packing or anything. The cats were moved to the top floor of the townhouse and that was basically it. She didn't even have time to move anything else to the top floor. The Bedrooms are on the top floor, all the living stuff is on the first floor. They got here with the clothes ontheir back so to speak. They've been doing laundry daily. 
The two boys were sixes 5-6 and 8, as some of you said you may be interested in helping. I'm not asking nor begging for anyones help here but if you want to volunteer it, PM me for more information. We have spare blankets, Towels, A few Frying pans, Some utensils and plates and stuff so we'll be helping with that. The friend she is staying with has given her a couple of the sams club gas cards I guess they are. Never heard of them but they must work lol. I'll have a listing of models up tonite by midnite or so if anyone is interested in buying any models at this time. Most will be the older trek AMT/ertl kits and a few of the 1/32 scale airplanes. 

Just thought you all should know.


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## capt Locknar (Dec 29, 2002)

For those interested I have put up the kits for sale in the swap and sell board. I thought I had more than I did but I guess that water damage from about 6 months ago or so in my basement took out many of the kits I still had in boxes.


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## PhilipMarlowe (Jan 23, 2004)

Hey Dave,
Why don't you post your email address for folks that might want to donate via Paypal. My boys are too small or I'd be happy to send you some clothes. But as an old navy diver with two boys, I can spare a few bucks from the beer fund for a swabbie with two boys that needs a hand.

It's just the watermelon in me


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## The-Nightsky (May 10, 2005)

I have plenty of boys clothes to donate! good stuff .What sizes do they wear.We have three boys from 9-13 should have something you need.


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## capt Locknar (Dec 29, 2002)

Her two boys Garrett is age 6 and wears 5-6's for clothes and is 6 years old
Rory her older son is 8 years old and wears 8-10's
And her daughter Harmony is 17 and wears 16 longs if anyone has anything that large lol. Her daughter is very big boned. Almost as tall as I am now. I couldn't beleive it was her when I saw her. 

My email addy is [email protected] for both regular email and paypal for those interested. Those of you that can and are willing to donate You will receive my utmost thanks and be put on a list for the our premier model kit that is hopefully gonna be ready by November 1st for sales at a discounted rate (and I know for a fact that most of you will be interested in this kit and will pretty much guarantee it, some of you already know what the kit is). 

For my snail mail addy please email me for that. I just got off the phone with my sis at her friends house (to reconfirm the clothes sizes) and will have everthing shipped here and then passed on to her. Her boys are with us right now and Harmony and Dawn (my sis) are at Jim's house in Omaha. So we got them housed but her savings is damn near blown now too, so if your interested in any of the models on the swap and sell board I have up, all proceeds on those will be going to her. 

Thanks guys its much appreciated. This once a month paycheck for me really bites ass.


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## capt Locknar (Dec 29, 2002)

First Thanks Goes out to Linda Lester from Starship Modeler on a donation. Thank you very much and my sister thanks you too.


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## capt Locknar (Dec 29, 2002)

richard danison(F91), and Philip Marlowe a thanks to you two as well. I just woke up and its great to see total strangers helping me out here. Thanks very much and my sister thanks ya all to.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

Anything new going on guys? :wave:


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## PhilipMarlowe (Jan 23, 2004)

Chuck!

I'd kiss your ugly mug if you were here right now!
Did you get my PM about the Superdome in time?


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## capt Locknar (Dec 29, 2002)

Welcome Back CHuck. Glad to see your still alive


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## PhilipMarlowe (Jan 23, 2004)

That's the best casual entrance since Pee Wee Herman showed up at the MTV movie awards after the theater "incident", and slyly asked:

*"So,anybody heard any good jokes lately?"*

Glad your back safely!


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

I'll tell where I am anyway, PhilipMarlowe!
Bossier City, Louisiana, in the Northwest corner of the state right near the Texas/Arkansas border.

I'm glad to be alive, Captain Locknar.
It could have gone the other way a couple of times more then I'd like to remember.

I finally escaped from New Orleans late Saturday night. I felt like Kurt Russell minus the exploding implant(Escape from New York).

It was a week to remember. I spent most of it trying to convince a few elderly neighbors/ friends of the family to leave and waiting for the Superdome and Convention center to be evacuated before I could pull off my own escape.

In the meantime I ended up stuck in the dark with about 400 other evacuees in front of the Greyhound bus station in the pitch dark night when the National Guard pulled out without notice or a word of explaination, spent a night and half of a day in the Superdome(BIG mistake), got sandblasted by a Marine Corp helicopter dropping supplies at a nearby school that suddenly took off right over where I was walking and passed less then 50 feet above, a flying 2 foot by 4 foot piece of tin whizzed right passed me.

My neighborhood was fortunately dry for all but about two northenly blocks.
Tons of trees and lightpoles down, no phones or electricity but also no major structural damage other then to the church a block away from me, 2300 Burgundy, New Orleans 70117 is the church address if you want to google it.

Some thugs set a wharehouse on fire about seven blocks from my house(that's the wharf fire that got near the tanker cars you probably heard about), but a bunch of my neighbors and I barricaded the streets and were armed so the neighborhood itself was pretty much okay, at least until Saturday night(I have no idea how it is now).

We had no ground protection from the NOPD or the National Guard up until Saturday. They stopped defending the area at Elysian Fields about two blocks outside my neighborhood.

As I left Saturday evening the cops and newly arrived Guard and out of town policemen were preparing to expand the perimeter all the way to at least the railroad tracks where those tankers had been endangered for days.

So hopefully the neighborhood should be safe.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

I had had no intention of going to the Superdome, I was just going to wait until the Superdome and Convention Center were virtually completely empty before trying to head out. But Wednesday I was told by a neighbor I had never met before that they were evacuating some people from the Greyhound bus station in the Central Business district.

The area that was dry pretty much forced me to go past the New Orleans Convention center before cutting over to Loyola avenue(where the Bus Station was located) via Howard Avenue.

Though I hadn't head a lot about the problems in the Convention Center, based on the looting that was going on in the small stores, coffee shops nearby I never once considered stopping there.

So I then cut over to the Greyhound bus station area(actually they were staging people for evacuation about a block south of there across from the Main Post Office that first night - Wednesday evening). After standing there from about 4PM to 11PM the National Guard suddenly packed up everything - busses, troop transports etc, and left without even a word of explaination.

Leaving about 400 people, a few in wheelchairs, stranded, desperate and on the edge of histeria alone in the pitch dark night.

Needless to say, I was pissed!
I started wading through ankle deep water and within a block was in waist deep water headed towards the Superdome. If for no other reason then to scream at anyone who would listen until they explained to me how American troops could leave 400 sobbing desperate people in the dark without a word of explanation....


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

When I got to the Superdome I found out that they left because people had begun to shoot at Guardsmen and Police who were trying to get people evacuated.

They couldn't continue to evacuate any of the locations as they feared that the hoods would go from evacuation center to evacuation. They couldn't return fire because the hood were inserting themselves in the crowds before shooting.

They were afraid to explain any of this to the crowd where I was at as it probably would have made them even more frightened of the hoods then they were pissed at the Guard.

However, having now gone to get my explanation, I was at the Superdome where they were enforcing the Hotel California Policy - " You can checkout, but you may never leave..."


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

So I ended up spending the night and half of the next day in the Superdome.

I won't bother trying to describe the putrid conditions. Words are useless in that regard.

At around 2 AM or so I was awakened(okay, half awakened, I had my eyes closed and was going in and out of sleep for awhile) by screams and then two gunshots.

A thug by the Gate A endzone had grabbed a gone from a Nation Guardsmen M.P. and shot him(though he wasn't killed). People in the crown disarmed him and turned him over to the Guard who turned him over to the NOPD.

Later, about 20 minutes to 6AM some fools started a fire under some of the stands.
I will never understand that one. It's like being on a raft in the middle of the ocean and then setting your own raft on fire!


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## capt Locknar (Dec 29, 2002)

Wow thats a heck of a recall of events. I talked to a friend today thats up in wisconsin and she went to the red cross to volunteer (ex military search and rescue person) and they won't let her go down there without first training her their way. Basically told her that the military way wasn't good enough or some crap. Her red cross training day is the 12th, still 6 damn days away. She could be down there now helping instead of waiting on some bullcrap training day by the red cross. Since when is military training inadequate (i know i know don't answer that lol). Glad to see ya got out of there when ya did though. I wish I had the gas money, I take my truck down there and just start piling people in to get them the hell out of there. Knowing my luck though I would get shot for stealing people lol.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

The fire was put out but smoke was pretty thick inside as a result.

After that point the Guard and NOPD pretty much turned a blind eye to people trying to leave and many people left the Dome.

I had seen a random dead body by then. I had seen an old man that someone right in front of me had offered to help carry wave off any help. He was an older black man with white grey hair and beard. He was sitting on one of the upramps of the Superdome on the ground and was grinning and chuckling surreally - He honestly looked like a three-year toddler who was estaticly playing with some invisible toy.

An hour after I had seen him there two men came through the crowd I was standing in carrying him on a thin piece of plywood. He was dead.

That's about the only time I cried in years, I don't know where it came from, I had never met the old guy before in my life, but I just couldn't stop balling like baby.

Later that morning I found out from some Guardsmen that they weren't planning on doing any more night time evacuations. 

I had decided not to even try to evacuate until after virtually all the people from the Superdome and Convention center had left. People were acting like animals while the Guard drove through the outside levels throughing out MRE's.

If they were acting like that over MRE's I didn't want to be there when the buses arrived.

So about 1 or 2PM Thursday I snuck out of the Dome myself, into the loving arms of waist deep flood water. It was not exactly like swimming in a crystal clear lake, but it felt that way compared to the Superdome.

I went home to spray myself from head to toe in about 50/50 bleach and water.
Two days later, Saturday at about 1PM I had heard on the radio that the Superdome was empty and they had taken about 4,000 out of the 25,000 people at the Convention Center out. I figured it was going to take at least until Sunday for that to be finished. However, at about 5:20PM I heard an announcement on the radio that the New Orleans Convention Center was empty and only a few more "stragglers" needed to be evacuated. Almost immediately after that the radio station announced that some cruise ships were being brought in that between the two of them could probably hold thousands.

Afraid that perhaps no more buses would come(though that turned out to not be the case) and afraid of getting stuck on some floating version of the Superdome, I grabbed by fourty pound satchel of clothes and made the 2-3 miles in about 25 minutes.

I caught the second to last bus that left the city Saturday night and took it all the way to Bossier City, Louisiana, where I'm now sitting at a Sears employee terminal typing this.

There are tons of other stuff I could tell you guys about, but it's hard for me to get my mind wrapped around it all. It's as if this last week has been one incredibly long and surreal experience. I've felt as if I've been trapped in some nightmarish movie for quite awhile, as if this wasn't really happening to me, as if I was just watching myself go through this in a very detached eerie way. Yet continuing to make decisions, etc.

It's hard to explain. The detachment, with exceptions here and there, has helped me quite a lot though. It had it's positive aspects.


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## F91 (Mar 3, 2002)

Chuck, Is there anything I can do to help? PLEASE, let me know.
Dave, I don't consider us "strangers", we are all in this together.


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## PhilipMarlowe (Jan 23, 2004)

Having dealt with the Red Cross arranging emergency leave for the various SEALS, Salvage Divers, and EOD divers under my care, I'm not surprised. I once had a the Red Cross emergency co-ordinator tell me I was "a real pain in the @ss" for waking her at 2AM _her time_ to coordinate a flight home from Morraco for a Diver whose mother had died, and she saw no reason it couldn't wait 6 hours till "office hours". My response on the phone to _that_ rated me a letter of reprimand from the command CO, but our Master Chief posted the letter on the locker bullentin board (the old cork kind, not this kind)and gave me a 72 hour liberty pass.



> I finally escaped from New Orleans late Saturday night. I felt like Kurt Russell minus the exploding implant(Escape from New York).


That's helluva story, Chuck, I can't even imagine what you've been thru....But Snake Plissken couldn't have done any better!

And ditto what Rich said!


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

capt Locknar said:


> Wow thats a heck of a recall of events. I talked to a friend today thats up in wisconsin and she went to the red cross to volunteer (ex military search and rescue person) and they won't let her go down there without first training her their way. Basically told her that the military way wasn't good enough or some crap. Her red cross training day is the 12th, still 6 damn days away. She could be down there now helping instead of waiting on some bullcrap training day by the red cross. Since when is military training inadequate (i know i know don't answer that lol). Glad to see ya got out of there when ya did though. I wish I had the gas money, I take my truck down there and just start piling people in to get them the hell out of there. Knowing my luck though I would get shot for stealing people lol.


Stay where you are. The only people left either are ridiculously stubborn and a danger to themselves, or they are looters waiting to steal anything that is left.

The race card that has been played by the likes of Al Sharpton who was interviewed on New Orleans radio Thursday and implied by others is the thing that upsets me about this whole thing more then anything.

The evacuations, once the Guard could start them(Wednesday night) never stopped for an instant other then when they and evacuues were shot at.

No one of any race is going to take the chance of getting innocent people or themselves killed by making people getting on busses a sitting target for thugs that use crowds of innocent people as shields.

If the Guard had been able to evacuate at night the evacuation would havde taken half as long at least.

As a result hundreds or more people died because thugs delayed getting these people out and to the medical attention they needed.

Don't get me wrong. The number of Guardsmen and military was too low and too slow in being reinforced. Things didn't started to turn around until Friday when the Marines and Navy arrived.

After hearing briefly on the radio that a lot of the regular forces and nationwide Guard reinforcements had to be recalled from leave from fighting abroad, I made it a point to ask all the Guardsmen I met if they had been on leave. Out of the 12 that would openly answer me 5 said they had been on leave.

I realize that's not enough to be a scientific sampling, but I strongly suspect that when all of this if investigated a lot of the blame for the slow reinforcement of the Louisiana National Guard will be found to be due to low non-leave troop numbers.

Our miliatary is stretched too thin around the world, but Rumsfield, the President and others will never admit it. Even if forced to give us the numbers, whatever ridiculously low levels of troops we have left to deal with domestic catashtrophies like this they will claim that low level was enough. They'll blame it on something or someone else.

I must say that the Louisiana National Guard was here from day one but could do no more then try to protect the people inside the shelters.

None of those men and women failed to give it there all.
None of those who arrived very much later failed to give helping us a 150% effort.

They were failed by a government that was unable to back them up and get us the troops and supplies we needed when we needed them.

They were stretched too thin.

But even so, many many many people died needlessly because of the actions of cowardly thugs who caused the evacuation to take longer by firing on people who were trying to help.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Glad ya made it, Chuck! :wave:


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

F91 said:


> Chuck, Is there anything I can do to help? PLEASE, let me know.
> Dave, I don't consider us "strangers", we are all in this together.


Thanks, F91!

I think I'll be okay but if I turn out to be wrong I'll let you know.
I have some extra funds due to the fact that there was no working ATMs, no open stores or places to spend money etc...

Also, I chose the evacuation center that was the furtherest away on the bus caravan I was on so that I'm now in a place that is relatively normal compared to places like Baton Rouge and Houston.

I also want to thank all of the people everywhere in America that has opened their doors.

I'm at a good Red Cross shelter in Bossier City. I've popped over to a nearby Sears(which I worked for in New Orleans) and I'm able to contact all of you due to my fellow company members' help.

So don't be surprised if I fall off the face of the earth for a couple of days at a time.

Sears is helping with disaster pay but it may be awhile before I can transfer or get computer access.

Just wanted you guys to know everything was okay and to tell you some of behind the scenes stuff as to what was really going on in New Orleans.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

John P said:


> Glad ya made it, Chuck! :wave:


Thanks! That makes two of us! :tongue:

I'm just hoping the looters don't get their hands on FourMadMen and I's Class F shuttlecraft prototype.

I hear they might be funded by the Ferengi....


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## PhilipMarlowe (Jan 23, 2004)

Chuck_P.R. said:


> .
> The race card that has been played by the likes of Al Sharpton who was interviewed on New Orleans radio Thursday and implied by others is the thing that upsets me about this whole thing more then anything.
> ....


Al Sharpton (and his like) are chuckle-headed idiots.IMHO. I'm not going to defend Al Sharpton.

But let's not loose sight of the fact that Al Sharpton isn't paid a six or seven figure salary with our tax dollars. Al Sharpton was not appointed to a high level government job with no experience but 11 years of horse shows(and apparently Brown wasn't even good at _that_, _and_ lied about his "olympic games experience" on his white house press release!) and whose college room-mate he was. And Al Sharpton was apparently smart enough to work a TV and figure out there were people at convention center before Friday, unlike Michael Brown on Paula Zahn's show the other night.

Brown on Friday Sept _2_



> Brown: I will tell you this, though, every person in that convention center, we just learned about that today and so I have directed that we have all the available resources to get to that convention center to make sure that they have the food and water, the medical care that they need.
> 
> Paula Zahn: Sir, you're not telling me — you're not telling me that you just learned that the folks at the convention center didn't have food and water until today, are you? You had no idea that they were completely cut off?
> 
> Brown: Paula, the federal government did not even know about the convention center people until today.



I'm disgusted by Al Sharpton. But I'm outraged by FEMA head's Michael Brown and Joe Allbaugh. I'm not naive enough to think that both partys don't regularly engage in "pork" appointments. But this time there were dire consequences and there should be some serious accountability.

BTW, I wasn't specific about the FEMA head's salary because I couldn't find it with a google search, how much were the taxpayers paying these guys?


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## Steven Coffey (Jan 5, 2005)

I am very glad you are ok Chuck !


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## BATBOB (Jul 14, 2003)

Glad you're ok Chuck. In time I hope your memories of this event fade away.


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## The-Nightsky (May 10, 2005)

Good to hear from you Chuck! I cant even imagine how bad it must have been.Glad you are ok!


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## capt Locknar (Dec 29, 2002)

Thanks again to all the people helping out. (batbob)

My sister will be here later this evening for dinner, she is in Des Moines right now visiting our grandmothers grave. Her two boys are here with us now driving us bonkers with my son. They sooooo want to get a hold of all my models and big kid toys lol. I may have to padlock and hire some security guards for the doors. Ya all know how it is, the kids toys aren't good enough they want mine lol.

Chuck its nice to see your ok, been missing your emails since all this happened. Great to see you kept a level head about you while this happened. I hear ya about the balling up and crying your eyes out. I do that sometimes too. Kind of like an old stale twinkie, all crusty on the outside and all mushy on the inside lol. 

If they get a hold of your shuttle we'll send out the big guns lol.


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## capt Locknar (Dec 29, 2002)

Well we just got done having dinner with my sister and her two boys and girl and I talked to her on the side and she cried for about 20 minutes or so. We rounded up about 5 bags of boys clothes for her, I gave her the cash, some from me and the cash from the 4 people that graciously donated via paypal yesterday and today. (those of you that donated we greatly appreciate it and I will return the favor in the near future trust me). I gave them a couple DVD's they can watch in the portable dvd player for the kids and for her. Gave her some plates and cups and silver ware. Gave my neice some Vampirelly comics that i had extra's of for some reading (she's into the goth stuff lol) and my son was passing out some toys left and right to the boys. He has such a giving heart. The boys will be staying with our mom and dad for a couple more days, My sis and my neice are staying with Her Friend Jim. 

Thanks again for those that helped. We also placed a couple calls today to my inlaws and some other friends to have them round up some clothes too. Thats our main concern is second hand clothes or anything like that. The other stuff can be replaced slowly but the clothes they'll need almost immediately. 

It was a nice dinner, had some small steaks that we've had in the freezer for 4 months or so, some fresh green beans from the garden and baked potatoes. Then we had some home made apple fritters for dessert. Chatted for a while. 

Chuck if theres anything you need from me that I can do for you let me know. I would much rather give directly than to a group that pulls 70% of a donation out for overhead. Its the people suffering that need the donations not the Higher ups of the corporations that are supposed to be helping the needy that shouldn't be taking it, if ya know what i mean. 

Thanks again all


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## Four Mad Men (Jan 26, 2004)

Chuck! Glad you're alive! We'll talk more later but let me just echo my relief of your well being. Sent you PM, please read if you can.


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## BATBOB (Jul 14, 2003)

capt Locknar said:


> Thanks again to all the people helping out. (batbob)



Not a problem. I was going to drop by the hobby store, but I figured your sister would be happier with a couple of extra bucks than I would have been with a couple of sheets of plastic.


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## PhilipMarlowe (Jan 23, 2004)

> Frustrated: Fire crews to hand out fliers for FEMA
> By Lisa Rosetta
> The Salt Lake Tribune
> ATLANTA - Not long after some 1,000 firefighters sat down for eight hours of training, the whispering began: "What are we doing here?"
> ...


Edited to fit the space, complete article here, italics are mine:
http://www.sltrib.com/utah/ci_3004197


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## PhilipMarlowe (Jan 23, 2004)

And a related article from the Washington Post:



> The government's disaster chief waited until hours after Hurricane Katrina had already struck the Gulf Coast before asking his boss to dispatch 1,000 Homeland Security workers to support rescuers in the region - and gave them two days to arrive, according to internal documents.
> 
> Michael Brown, director of the Federal Emergency Management Agency, sought the approval from Homeland Security Secretary Mike Chertoff roughly five hours after Katrina made landfall on Aug. 29. Brown said that among duties of these employees was to "convey a positive image" about the government's response for victims.
> 
> ...


"You _are_ doing a heckuva job, Brownie!"


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## Zorro (Jun 22, 1999)

Katrina spun and everybody else is spinning.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/09/07/katrina.congress/index.html


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## PhilipMarlowe (Jan 23, 2004)

> *"I would go back and ask the firefighter to revisit his commitment to FEMA, to firefighting and to the citizens of this country," said FEMA spokeswoman Mary Hudak. *


I realize firefighter-bashing FEMA spokeswoman Mary Hudak might be a new name to some, but we're real familiar with her "commitment",her attention to detail, and her honesty and accountability down here in Florida:

http://www.news-press.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050303/NEWS01/503030472/1075

http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20041203/NEWS/412030459/1396

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/sfl-fema19dec19,0,2457936.story?coll=sfla-news-utility

Some career highlights:
From 2005:


> FEMA spokeswoman Mary Hudak *first* said the agency didn't agree to pay for debris removal on private property in Escambia County and that the reports were erroneous. She *later * said the federal agency has worked with Escambia County officials to use their local nuisance abatement and condemnation laws to remove debris from private property.
> 
> Hudak acknowledged FEMA sent Escambia County officials a letter about debris cleanup on private property, *but refused to release it*.
> 
> She even wavered on whether FEMA *has* an absolute policy on not collecting on private property. She said the agency *might* help counties pay for debris removal if they use local laws to gain access to the properties.


Again in 2005:


> By the time Florida's hurricane season ended barely more than three months ago, FEMA had stockpiled 30 million pounds of leftover ice in warehouses in North Fort Myers, Jacksonville and Atlanta.
> 
> Now, most of that ice has been allowed to melt.
> 
> ...


And in 2004(and this _might_ be relevant)



> From Mobile, Ala., to Detroit to rural eastern North Carolina, the federal government has approved millions in assistance to areas largely unaffected by disasters, even after local officials warned of possible fraud.
> 
> In southeastern North Carolina, FEMA has approved thousands of Frances claims in counties where the storm caused only minor problems.
> 
> ...


"Who could have foreseen this?"???????????

Any of this sound familiar?


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## BATBOB (Jul 14, 2003)

FEMA is a shining example of Corporate America (and Canada). Politicians ( = professional liars) are ruining our great countries.

Side Note: As I watch CNN etc for updates, I'm sickened by the "celebrities" that are putting in their 2 cents (Oprah, Sean Penn, Celine Dion etc)....They are using this miserable situtation to ply their political opinions. Just fork over the cash. If they were sincere, they would have left the cameras at home.


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## PhilipMarlowe (Jan 23, 2004)

^^Agreed, and I'm sick of the Republican's bringing up the democratic officials in New Orleans as an excuse and to close ranks.

Obviously, the mostly democratic New Orleans local officials dropped the ball, and dropped it *badly*. But if Tropical Storm Ophelia comes roaring into Florida in a couple of days, nobody will be looking to democrats from New Orleans to deal with the problem.

That is FEMA's job. And what our tax dollars are supposed to go for.

It should be obvious to* both * parties FEMA needs some _immediate _ changes.


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## Lloyd Collins (Sep 25, 2004)

Fire the whole lot, and hire new!


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## Zorro (Jun 22, 1999)

Ever get the feeling Doug Neidermeyer, Greg Marmalard, and the entire Omega fraternity is now running the federal government? _I_ do.


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## PhilipMarlowe (Jan 23, 2004)

Zorro said:


> Ever get the feeling Doug Neidermeyer, Greg Marmalard, and the entire Omega fraternity is now running the federal government? _I_ do.


*"Thank you, sir, may I have another?!"*


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## GLU Sniffah (Apr 15, 2005)

Zorro said:


> Ever get the feeling Doug Neidermeyer, Greg Marmalard, and the entire Omega fraternity is now running the federal government? _I_ do.












Maybe we can get 'Flounder' to come back from Centauri Prime.


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## The-Nightsky (May 10, 2005)

A Pledge Pin!? On Your Uniform!?


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## GLU Sniffah (Apr 15, 2005)

The-Nightsky said:


> A Pledge Pin!? On Your Uniform!?


 You forgot the spittle coming out your mouth...

" PUH-ledge PUH-in!!!!! " :wave:

I'm glad the mood is lightening just a bit...as this is a topic of such unspeakable sadness, I don't have the words...

Chuck P.R., despite the horrors of the situation, thank you for imparting some living history on those of us who are safe. I'm very glad that you made it out...I wish everyone could have...

The physical damage may be repaired in just a few years...but the emotional stuff will be with people for a lifetime.

But...lest we get bogged down in sadness:










_" My shoes are too tight and I have forgotten how to dance. "_

Let our shoes not be tight.


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## PhilipMarlowe (Jan 23, 2004)

Hey, I hear these guys not only have previous disaster and flood experience:










But own their own tools as well!










My shoes were feeling a little snug


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## PhilipMarlowe (Jan 23, 2004)

MsNBC's Keith Olbermann just gave FEMA's Mary Hudak his daily "Worst Person in the World" award for the exact quote I highlighted earlier. 

I feel a little less like the lone nut baying at the moon. 

Other highlights of the show were some video some British students made in the Superdome that echos everything Chuck said, and worse. And a montage of all the major players laying out who said and did what before and after the storm made landfall that would have been funny if it all wasn't so tragic.


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## scotpens (Sep 6, 2003)

Zorro said:


> Ever get the feeling Doug Neidermeyer, Greg Marmalard, and the entire Omega fraternity is now running the federal government? _I_ do.


I thought it was Groucho, Chico and Harpo.
_The last guy nearly ruined this place
He didn't know what to do with it
If you think this country's bad off now
Just wait ’til I get through with it!_

Sometimes things get so tragically absurd that all you can do is laugh!


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## PhilipMarlowe (Jan 23, 2004)

Some more stooge-worthy behavior from our folks at FEMA, from CNN's site:



> Right city, wrong state
> FEMA accused of flying evacuees to wrong Charleston
> 
> Tuesday, September 6, 2005; Posted: 11:29 p.m. EDT (03:29 GMT)
> ...


Anybody wanna bet whether there were doctors waiting in Charleston West Virginia?

*"You're doing a heckuva job, Brownie!"*


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## spe130 (Apr 13, 2004)

Chuck, glad to hear that you're OK. :thumbsup: 

I'm not even going into anything even remotely political. I may have been part of the reason another board I regularly visit was apparently shut down, after I stood up to some people who were making asinine, indefensible comments about a lot of things related to the hurricane and the resulting mess.


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## PhilipMarlowe (Jan 23, 2004)

Even Moe could have done better than this, from the NY Daily News Site:



> Disaster used as
> political payoff
> 
> The Federal Emergency Management Agency has done it again.
> ...


*"You're doing a heckuva job, Brownie!"*


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## F91 (Mar 3, 2002)

" Brownie" or Browneye?


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## 747 (Oct 11, 2001)

Sounds like he should change his name to "Kurtz" from "Heart of Darkness". Pretends he's there to spread the "good word", actually there to screw everyone into the ground.


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## lonfan (Feb 11, 2001)

I gotta Echo what PhilMarlowe said and add, This latest News I'd herd from Al Franken Was that one of the Key players in this Fema Nightmare (I think it was a Soundbyte from Mike Brown) Anyhoo, this Pinhead was saying on that Sunday/Monday after Katrina that "They (Orleans) Dodged A Bullet" MEANWHILE EVERY other Newspaper ran stories under the Headline; Deadliest Storm In Years!,Deathtoll Could Be In 1000's etc. one thing I saw for myself on MSNBC was when Bush showed up there on day 5 iirc,they show him walkin' around with his arms around these two girls trying to console them.The Bush-Master then Kisses them on the head and sez "I WILL Do Everything I Can" and he sugguests they go down to the Salvation Army at Such and Such Location,Well This Surfer lookin' guy (regular Guy Civilan) Shakes Bush's hand but mentions that the Salvation Army outpost Bush was Directing these girls to was "Long Gone" Whaa? Somebody needs to "Get The Memo" ehh? Some Folks have called for the firing of Mike Brown (The Ex-Horse-Guy) and Bush Said "Why Would I Do That?" When this is all said and done,Historicly I don't think G.W. and Company are gonna come out of this thing Smellin' too good. Hey last thing, How is it General Powell was able to go to the U.N. and could Show Satillite Survalence Pictures to Support the U.S. going to war YET, the Same Govermentwas NOT aware that we had Americans Dying in a Convention Center RIGHT HERE IN THE STATES? How is that? hmm Well in Sumation Chuck I'm Glad you are Okay and thanks for letting us know what's really going on. You'll stay in our Prayers. OH BTW Chuck, Any Idea how your Kits Did?
JOHN/LONFAN


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## PhilipMarlowe (Jan 23, 2004)

Even Shemp doesn't make the same MAJOR mistake twice in 6 hours, from the AP site:



> Whoops! Wrong Charleston
> Posted 9/7/2005 10:29 AM
> 
> The South Carolina city twice thought it was getting Katrina evacuees, but they were sent to West Virginia instead.
> ...


But there's a happy ending, once again private citizens and volunteers rallied and picked up the ball after tax-funded FEMA fumbled it.

*"You're doing a heckuva job, Brownie!"*


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## Dave Hussey (Nov 20, 1998)

All this is so terribly tragic. Underscoring that is the picture of the dog who has been staying by his master's body for days now.

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/US/09/08/katrina.impact/index.html

Huzz


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## PhilipMarlowe (Jan 23, 2004)

From USA today:



> Exposed by Katrina, FEMA's flaws were years in making
> 
> When Hurricane Katrina submerged a city, ravaged three states and disrupted hundreds of thousands of lives, it also laid bare huge gaps in the nation's ability to respond to disasters. None is more jaw-dropping than the ineptitude shown by the federal agency created to respond to natural disasters.
> 
> ...


*"Nobody could have foreseen this"*


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## lonfan (Feb 11, 2001)

So I'm guessing this is a bad time for that "Katrina And The Waves" Reunion Tour?


John/Lonfan
Sorry My Uncle Who used to write Gags for Joan Rivers Came up with that tastless joke while we were Talkin' today BUT he also Sent $150 for the Victims!


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## Zorro (Jun 22, 1999)

Soooo ... how are we all going to pay for this?


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## PhilipMarlowe (Jan 23, 2004)

Zorro said:


> Soooo ... how are we all going to pay for this?


Well, some of the reporters at Scott McClellan's White House press conference on 9/6 had some interesting ideas, but I don't think he was too receptive:



> Q In view of the national crisis, will the President withdraw his proposal for this tax cut for the richest people in the country? And, also, my second question is, why did we turn down foreign help?
> 
> MR. McCLELLAN: Actually, I'm glad you brought that up. We have not. We have made very clear -- I made clear last week, the State Department made clear last week that we are going to take people up on their offers of assistance from foreign countries. There are some 94 nations and international organizations that have made offers of assistance -- whether that is cash support or I think water pumps from places like Germany or other areas. We said that if this can help alleviate things on the ground, we're going to take them up on their offers of assistance and we appreciate the compassion from the international community and their offers of assistance.
> 
> ...


You can read the entire press conference transcript here:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/09/20050906-5.html


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

lonfan said:


> . . . he sugguests they go down to the Salvation Army at Such and Such Location,Well This Surfer lookin' guy (regular Guy Civilan) Shakes Bush's hand but mentions that the Salvation Army outpost Bush was Directing these girls to was "Long Gone" . . .


Sounds like a scene from the beginning of "Dawn of the Dead" (the great original movie by Romero himself). (I've heard that there are tales of cannabilism aready creeping out of New Orleans  )


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## capt Locknar (Dec 29, 2002)

And another thanks to go out today, Thanks Steven Coffey, its greatly appreciated. 

I dropped you an email.


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## xr4sam (Dec 9, 1999)

Chuck--

Glad to hear you made it out in one piece. My wife and I ran away Sunday morning, and wound up stranded in a hotel in Dallas. At least we and our pets are all okay. Like everything else in Chalmette, our house is a write-off. I'm just hoping to get back in a week or so and recover what (if anything) can be salvaged, and wash my hands of it. Between the two of us, my wife and I can only think of a handful of things we will be able to save, if we are lucky.

Dammit.

And personally, I am likely to kick the $#!+ out of the next FEMA-drone I see...


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## F91 (Mar 3, 2002)

XR4-
Keep us posted, There are lot's of people that would like to help.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

Damn!

I'm in BIG TROUBLE!


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

I just realized I've got New Orleans Public Library books with me that are due back by tommorrow...


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

GLU Sniffah said:


> Maybe we can get 'Flounder' to come back from Centauri Prime.


Hey! Flounder had a conscience! Let's please not insult Flounder by talking about him in the same breath as FEMA.


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## PhilipMarlowe (Jan 23, 2004)

Speak of the devil:


> FEMA Chief Removed to Washington
> 
> By LARA JAKES JORDAN
> Associated Press Writer
> ...


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## Zorro (Jun 22, 1999)

^.... just another example of the GD liberal press playing the blame game. God bless em'.:thumbsup:


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

The actual timeline is very interesting in regards to following that pesky little detail called the* law*:



> Racist Finger Pointers Play The Katrina Blame Game
> By Lee P. Butler
> September 8, 2005
> 
> ...


----------



## PhilipMarlowe (Jan 23, 2004)

^source please.

Yes,some say it would have been wrong for the federal officials to swoop in against the states wishes despite the tragedy.

I think Jon Stewart first pointed out it's too bad New Orleans wasn't in a "persistent vegetative state".

Remember that?

It's a pesky little thing known as *history.*


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## Lloyd Collins (Sep 25, 2004)

Chuck, I am relieved that you are alive, and well. I have not been keeping up on most of the news, but when I saw you posting, I was glad to see you made it.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

Lloyd Collins said:


> Chuck, I am relieved that you are alive, and well. I have not been keeping up on most of the news, but when I saw you posting, I was glad to see you made it.


Thanks Lloyd!

The rest of you guys will forgive me if I can't follow all of the very long quotes above. Just don't have the mental/emotional strength to concentrate that much.

But let me give a little of my own insight into the worst of what went wrong in New Orleans.

The Feds screwed up on countless levels.
Blanco screwed up by asking for and sending too little too late.
Nagin screwed up by using busses to take people to death traps instead of out of the city.

But at least none of these people were trying to kill and injure people.

Thugs, gangsters, hoods, looters, butchers, whatever you want to call them, directly caused the evacuation to take two to three times longer then it could have once it did get started Wednesday.

The criminals of New Orleans were New Orleans' worst enemy.

Anybody who is left now should be forced out.

Looters don't want to leave, they are waiting.

If there are honest property owners who think they can defend their homes against thugs with AK47's then they are flipin' crazy! 

Even if you had enough ammo/weapons to hold out against them they would most likely just burn you out and the way New Orleans houses are built within six feet of each other, burn down all of your neighbor's houses too!

If anyone thinks these guys have mercy or respect just look at the mutilated bodies left in the New Orleans Convention Center.

But I have a new worry that was made real to me a couple of nights ago.
Something the media has mentioned but not painted a clear picture of.

Whatever the reason, and whoever the people are who don't want to leave they have no idea how serious the disease around them is.

A very simple, yet very deadly disease I contracted - dysentery. 

The only time I went into the water in New Orleans was twice to get into and out of the Superdome.

When I got home I sprayed myself from head to toe with almost pure bleach.

*I still* developed Dysentery, I found out two nights ago when I started to projectile vomit. I had to be given 4 liters of IV and CIPRO. Had I not been at such a good shelter(the CenturyTel arena in Bossier City, Louisiana) and gotten immediate attention I would have been dead in a couple of hours.

I had had diarhea for several days, but had felt absolutely fine, not even sick to my stomach, until the bacteria had built up in my body to a toxic level. Then my body just couldn't contain it any longer.

If someone in New Orleans, in their home alone, has this happen to them they might feel perfectly fine one second and be dead a few hours later. If they aren't near immediate medical help they are as good as dead if this happens to them.

Thanks to the great care I got I'm out of danger now, just taking CIPRO orally. But it was close for about 12 hours there.

For you harded-headed property rights guys out there, let me say you are nothing but foolish Typhoid Marys about to have your diseased stupid corpses rott around the gun that *WILL* be held by soon cold dead fingers!

You have no right to risk the lives of the cleanup/rescue people with your stupid dead corpses!

Forward this info to anyone you want.

Anyone anyone knows and that you have contact with in New Orleans or similarly flooded areas who refuses to get out need to convince them to get out now!!!!

They could have illnesses that can kill them in hours and not know it until a couple of hours before their death. In fact, they won't ever know it, they'll just be lying there delirious in their own vomit and diarhea unable to form a thought muchless call for help.

So much for bravery...


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## PhilipMarlowe (Jan 23, 2004)

^^^Sounds pretty brave to me Chuck, glad you were well taken care of and are recovering. Cipro is amazing stuff.


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## PhilipMarlowe (Jan 23, 2004)

Here's the complete article the Perfesser forgot to source,unedited:

http://www.opinioneditorials.com/guestcontributors/lbutler_20050906.html


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## Zorro (Jun 22, 1999)

PerfesserCoffee said:


> The actual timeline is very interesting in regards to following that pesky little detail called the* law*:


 
_"The survivors of the United States greatest natural disaster deserve better than having the tragedy of their lives exploited for political posturing."_

Boy, ain't _that_ the truth! Exploiting a monumental and tragic American disaster in order to further a political agenda _is_ pretty damned disgusting. In fact, it's downright _unforgivable_.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

PhilipMarlowe said:


> Here's the complete article the Perfesser forgot to source,unedited:
> 
> http://www.opinioneditorials.com/guestcontributors/lbutler_20050906.html


Uh, gee, I put the author's name and title of the article there. It should be apparent that I did that in order that it may be found. It must have been easy enough for you to find it. :thumbsup: 

In regards to the Feds entering without request, it was and remains ILLEGAL, for better or worse. Nagin and Blanco knew that yet still didn't call for help.

And I agree with you about the 'persistent vegetative' case in Florida. It was a state matter. Congress shouldn't micromanage us in such a manner.

Chuck, glad you made it out alive. I'd have been the first to encourage Nagin and Blanco to forcefully evacuate N.O. precisely due to the disease hazard that was inevitable from an open sewer pit N.O. was bound to become with serious flooding. This was not a question of property rights. This was a matter of public safety in an extreme situation akin to war. This was a time when a responsible government should have stepped in and made things happen and happen early and it didn't do so at any level due to very poor leadership from the ground up. When the death tolls  are taken, the leadership in Louisiana can deal with the angry public.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Zorro said:


> _"The survivors of the United States greatest natural disaster deserve better than having the tragedy of their lives exploited for political posturing."_
> 
> Boy, ain't _that_ the truth! Exploiting a monumental and tragic American disaster in order to further a political agenda _is_ pretty damned disgusting. In fact, it's downright _unforgivable_.


:lol: Yawwwwwn!  What else is new from that quarter?


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## Zorro (Jun 22, 1999)

PerfesserCoffee said:


> :lol: Yawwwwwn!  What else is new from that quarter?


 
http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=30193


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## PhilipMarlowe (Jan 23, 2004)

PerfesserCoffee said:


> And I agree with you about the 'persistent vegetative' case in Florida. It was a state matter. Congress shouldn't micromanage us in such a manner.


Well I'm just pleased as punch to hear you agree with me, but your source doesn't apparently doesn't see any apparent contradiction, which would seem like it would negate the usefulness of his opinion to open minded folks:

http://www.opinioneditorials.com/guestcontributors/lbutler_20050423.html

of course, as always,YMMV :thumbsup:


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## F91 (Mar 3, 2002)

My "ignore user " feature isn't allowing me to see some posts, Please tell me people aren't trying to spin this like "Blanco never asked for help" or "The Federal Government couldn't do anything". There's just too much documentation to prove that and too much case history of the Government intervening to try and spin this. It's a national tragedy, it's gonna get worse before it's gets better and if you think the Federal Government responded in a timely manner, you are out of step with the rest of the country and, in this case, reality.


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## xr4sam (Dec 9, 1999)

F91 said:


> XR4-
> Keep us posted, There are lot's of people that would like to help.


 Thanks, F91. Right now all I can do is sit and stew at the hotel in Dallas. St. Bernard gummint is estimating that it may be 3-6 weeks before we can get back into the parish to start recovery ops. 

You good folks that want to help can start by sending me all the patience and sanity that you might have to spare. I'm about to go outta my flippin' mind!:freak:

Don't worry guys, when I get back to a place to call my own (more or less), I'll be posting all kinds of requests for stuff that we NEED, like towels, sheets, pots and windows, and that kind of stuff. That is a good way away, for the moment. Right now, I'd just be chuffed to get a dog-sitter, so the better half and I could go out together for a few hours!


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

xr4sam said:


> Chuck--
> 
> Glad to hear you made it out in one piece. My wife and I ran away Sunday morning, and wound up stranded in a hotel in Dallas. At least we and our pets are all okay. Like everything else in Chalmette, our house is a write-off. I'm just hoping to get back in a week or so and recover what (if anything) can be salvaged, and wash my hands of it. Between the two of us, my wife and I can only think of a handful of things we will be able to save, if we are lucky.
> 
> ...


If you are running short of funds, xr4sam try getting to the CenturyTel arena.
It's a great 100% free Red Cross shelter being run here in Bossier City, LA. Tons of the locals are volunteering here and it's safe and well policed as well.

It's relatively close to Dallas, closer to home, yet still far away from the chaos.

The serve three hot meals a day, have tons of free clothes, hot showers, things that seemed like luxuries to me days ago.

The address is CenturyTel Arena, 2002 Centurytel Center Drive, Bossier City, LA 71112.

It's almost walking distance to Barksdale Air Force Base.

Here are two map addresses:
http://yellowpages.superpages.com/supermaps/mapinit.jsp?LID=0080166703&STYPE=S&lat=32449751&lng=-93636909&POI1name=Centurytel&POI1lat=032449751&POI1lng=-093636909&streetaddress=2000+Centurytel+Center+Drive&city=Bossier+City&state=LA&zip=71112&N=CenturyTel&L=Bossier+City+LA+71112&STYPE=S&MAPWIDTH=425&MAPHEIGHT=250&map.x=212&map.y=125&level=2

http://yellowpages.superpages.com/supermaps/mapinit.jsp?LID=0080166703&STYPE=S&lat=32449744&lng=-93597641&POI1name=Centurytel&POI1lat=032449751&POI1lng=-093636909&streetaddress=2000+Centurytel+Center+Drive&city=Bossier+City&state=LA&zip=71112&N=CenturyTel&L=Bossier+City+LA+71112&STYPE=S&MAPWIDTH=425&MAPHEIGHT=250&map.x=0&map.y=125&level=7#Map


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

BTWay,

*xr4sam* I just asked a Red Cross worker here a second ago(I'm now able to email from here for the moment at least).

They have an ON PREMISE ANIMAL SHELTER!!!

It is tented, they have fans running continuously, the dogs are looked over by volunteers and you can go out and walk your animal any time you want during the day!


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

PhilipMarlowe said:


> ^^^Sounds pretty brave to me Chuck, glad you were well taken care of and are recovering. Cipro is amazing stuff.


My point was, Phil, that there of tons of folks in New Orleans and other similar areas through out all the way to Mississippi who think they are perfectly fine. That may think they just have a touch of diaherea.

I thought the same thing. That's what the doctors said I probably had when I checked in in fact.

Then wham! Without even feeling sick to my stomach I was a few hours away from dying.

I probably would have been too weak to do anything had I been in a hotel room.

There are tons of people in New Orleans who think they are just fine but could be dead hours later.

They think they are going to "tough it out."

I think the media is not explaining how deadly dysentary and other diseases are. Not just deadly, but a disgusting way to die. I'm not afraid of dying, but I'd rather not do it in a pool of my own vomit and diarhea.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

Another plus,

xr4sam, FEMA will allegedly be here in person tomorrow morning if you would like to yell at them in person.


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## F91 (Mar 3, 2002)

You guys just let us know and we'll send stuff to help out.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

PhilipMarlowe said:


> Well I'm just pleased as punch to hear you agree with me, but your source doesn't apparently doesn't see any apparent contradiction, which would seem like it would negate the usefulness of his opinion to open minded folks:


Contradictions? Political commentators and politicians contradict themselves? 

Nawwww! Say it isn't so!  

Still doesn't mean he's not like the proverbial broken clock that is still right two times a day. 

I think the timeline will probably hold up and I suspect Georgie has pulled one over on folks and will welcome investigations into what happened and when. He's a little more savvy that I gave him credit for.

It will be interesting to see how it plays out. I don't think it helps state sovereignty one bit for the local and state leaders to be made absolute fools of by the Fed.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

F91 said:


> You guys just let us know and we'll send stuff to help out.


Thanks F91! 

I'm personally okay.

I can't and won't speak for xr4sam or others souls out there.

But even if xr4sam does have decent funds left I would hate to see him turning it all over to a motel until it's all used up.

This is no hotel of course, but there are about 500 in a shelter that could hold three times that, plus everything else I mentioned above.

Plus they are tons of doggies sitters here. He and the Mrs can walk around and even sleep with worrying. He won't even have to worry about them jacking up the rates on weekends!


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

Here's a couple of better maps for xr4sam,

It's a straight shot from Dallas to here via I-20, right on the other side of Shreveport

I don't know why it doesn't show the streets nearest the CenturyTel, but it is about 3 city block distance south of Barksdale Blvd. right next to the Jimmy Davis Bridge:


http://yellowpages.superpages.com/supermaps/mapinit.jsp?LID=0080166703&STYPE=S&lat=32342411&lng=-93669540&POI1name=Centurytel&POI1lat=032449751&POI1lng=-093636909&streetaddress=2000+Centurytel+Center+Drive&city=Bossier+City&state=LA&zip=71112&N=CenturyTel&L=Bossier%252525252525252525252BCity%252525252525252525252BLA%252525252525252525252B71112&STYPE=S&MAPWIDTH=800&MAPHEIGHT=600&map.x=400&map.y=0&level=5#Map



http://yellowpages.superpages.com/supermaps/mapinit.jsp?SRC=&STYPE=S&streetaddress=2000+Centurytel+Center+Drive&addressShow=&city=Bossier+City&state=LA&zip=71112&level=2&lat=32460905&lng=-94852442&POI1lat=032449751&POI1lng=-093636909&POI1name=Centurytel&MAPWIDTH=800&MAPHEIGHT=600&LID=0080166703&N=CenturyTel&L=Bossier%25252525252525252525252525252525252BCity%25252525252525252525252525252525252BLA%25252525252525252525252525252525252B71112&STYPE=S&map.x=406&map.y=298


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

Chuck,

I'm very relieved to see that you are okay!

Dysentary is nasty stuff. I'm glad that you were provided with immediate medical treatment and are doing well. Even just brief physical contact with contaminated water can transfer the microbes and bacteria through absorbsion or even by inhalation, if the air is quite hot and humid.

I sincerely hope you have a speedy recovery.

Welcome back!


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## capt Locknar (Dec 29, 2002)

Well My sister got a call from her Xo yesterday, she is to report to Ft Worth Texas where the unit is being transferred. She left last nite about 5 pm. I'll be driving down in about a week hopefully to check on her and the kids and to deliver some stuff thats being sent to us here that didn't arrive in time (thanks F91). Again thanks to all that helped out and we appreciate it.


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## PhilipMarlowe (Jan 23, 2004)

Joe Scarborough made an interesting point on Bill Mahers show last nite, he thinks a big contribution to the delay of the federal response was because it happened in August. As he pointed out, Washington the only city in the US that vacations like France.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

Trek Ace said:


> Chuck,
> 
> I'm very relieved to see that you are okay!
> 
> ...


Thanks, Trek Ace!

Just awakened from one of the best sleeps I've had in awhile.
Hope xr4sam and any other evacuees are doing okay!

Time for breakfast!

Gotta go!


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## Lloyd Collins (Sep 25, 2004)

Chuck, thanks for the updates on what's happening to you. I am happy to hear from you, and know you are doing well. Good luck, my friend.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

I'm about to be moved to another shelter.
Don't know when I'll be able to contact you guys.
:wave:


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

I've lucked out and am now staying in one of those extended stay hotels that's pretty nice. No more sleeping on foam or air mattresses in the middle of 400 other people! 

Still don't have easy email access though, so my messages may be sporadic.

I hope that Neitche[sp?] guy was right about whatever doesn't kill you ...


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## Lloyd Collins (Sep 25, 2004)

Glad you got someplace better to stay. And, am really happy to hear from you!


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## 747 (Oct 11, 2001)

Chuck_P.R. said:


> I hope that Neitche[sp?] guy was right about whatever doesn't kill you ...


 Yeah, if Fred was right, you're going to be superman!


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## spe130 (Apr 13, 2004)

I am, I am, I am Superman...and I can do anything... :tongue:


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

> As for those folks who were capable of walking, they should have left. Period.
> 
> Besides which, the chance of getting a ride was probably pretty good if you start walking along the road. Why not at least make the attempt instead of staying against MANDATORY evacuation orders in a place BELOW FRIKKIN' SEA LEVELl????


As way of providing some non-political geographic insights to the problem, let me say that you might have tried to get out on foot, as did several hundred, mostly homeless, people did.

But had you insisted you would have been shot to death by the local and state police guarding every single I-10 highway entrance and bridge westward.

Just as a point of information, there are only two ways out west of New Orleans. Both of them are Interstate Highways. One is over twin bridges that it would be impossible to sneak over without being shot. The other, I-10 West, once past Kenner is entirely over swampland for a good 20 miles. Again, impossible to sneak onto without being shot.

Even with contra-flo(all the highways being turned in the west direction) there were a grand total of ten highway lanes out of the city.

Do you really think the State Police anywhere would allow 100,000 plus people on foot to clog ANY of the ten highway lanes out of the city?

Thus ends the geography lesson of how to escape from New Orleans on foot...

By the way, the nearest shelter that was likely to be safe at the time was Baton Rouge, 80 miles away. Assuming you wouldn't be shot even the healthiest person would have a tough time doing 80 miles on foot in less then two days(which assumes you left before the path of the storm was more or less certain and a day before the evacuation order).


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