# about Aurora Magna Steering chassis?? Recommended?



## bambino (Oct 8, 2011)

Hello all!

I was thinking about giving myself a gift these days so I thought why not buy one or two of those Magna Steering cars?? I have never had one in my hand and it seems as a rare stuff for me. There are some for sale on ebay and in some other sites.

But first of all, I want it to run it, not to keep it boxed or as a die cast behind a thick glass. I run all of my cars no matter what.

I have searched some info about these cars but little have found. 

I read somewhere else they are not very reliable and you have to run them slower than a thunderjet on curves, so it seems those steering supposedly designed to handle curves are not good at it.

Also, what's the difference between magna steering chassis 9 and chassis 10? I found this nice page:
http://www.modelmotorist.com/web-content/scrmstl.jsp

I only have slotted track and it seems these cars run on both, slotted and slotless tracks.

Any advice, comments or suggestions are all welcome!!

Thanks!!

bambino


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

Read up on slotcardans stuff. Follow his links. He's the slotless guru.


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## Jisp (Oct 19, 2008)

Hi Bambino. Bill is correct, Dan is the man when it comes to slotless. I'm sure he'll pop in here and say hi before too long. He helped me with some slotless gear a while back and his knowledge is vast to say the least.

Cheers,
Michael. :thumbsup:


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## slotcardan (Jun 9, 2012)

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## bambino (Oct 8, 2011)

wOW :thumbsup:

Thanks very much slotcardan for your time and thorough contribution!!

I enjoyed reading your post, its seems like a lot of experience!!

Im in debt with you. From what I read, my interest in these magna steering dramatically decreased so I guess I owe you some US$50.00 you just saved me from spending...

Thanks!!


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## slotcardan (Jun 9, 2012)

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## bambino (Oct 8, 2011)

slotcardan said:


> since i only find interest in some form of lane changing or lane sharing i have researched many different steering slot car systems.
> 
> There were many ideas tried but with the technology available in the 1970s it was very limited. there was a limit to what the public would pay as well.
> 
> ...


Im curious to know why there has not been any attempt to build high quality micro rc cars? I know some micro rc cars that are 1:64 scale but they are too slow and poor quality and need be recharged every 3 minutes or so. They are just toys. Probably there is a speed limit that you can handle at such a scale??
I was thinking about some sort of mini z high quality but 1:64 and fast! That way you surely change lanes. I think technology is already available for that.


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## slotcardan (Jun 9, 2012)

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## ctsvowner (Aug 9, 2010)

bambino said:


> Im curious to know why there has not been any attempt to build high quality micro rc cars? I know some micro rc cars that are 1:64 scale but they are too slow and poor quality and need be recharged every 3 minutes or so. They are just toys. Probably there is a speed limit that you can handle at such a scale??
> I was thinking about some sort of mini z high quality but 1:64 and fast! That way you surely change lanes. I think technology is already available for that.


 The only thing with a better quality rc car would be just as in a 1:1 size car you cannot turn the wheel say 90* while at speed. It would have to have some sort of turn limiter as the speed of the car increases. Ever drive your car down the road at 30mph and just turn the wheel 90*? It will not end well.

My favorite slotless cars are the Tyco TCR slotless one's. In my unqualified opinion they worked the best.


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## slotcardan (Jun 9, 2012)

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## ctsvowner (Aug 9, 2010)

slotcardan said:


> I'll tell you a secret,,,, AFX speedsteer is better ,, the Tyco TCR is a ruined version of the aurora afx apeedsteer.


I've never owned a AFX Speedsteer. Maybe one day I should try them. Maybe someone close by has a set I can go tryout.


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## slotcardan (Jun 9, 2012)

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## bambino (Oct 8, 2011)

Hey, thanks you both for your answers

Slotcardan you are very knowledgeable and as people say here kind of a guru!

Actually, yes, I can imagine all those limitations for a 1:64 rc car.

I have three 1:24 mini z (2 wheel drive, M1 and M2, don't run them oftenly) and you have to be REALLY skilled to run them full speed!! I know a few guys that do wonders with them but those are gifted guys, kind of Ayrton Senna of mini z. You can watch some impressive videos in youtube of gifted Mini Z pilots. 

But most normal people we are far from gifted and skilled so we crash oftenly and at the end we use Mini Z as die cast. Too expensive for a die cast and a waste. That's why I came back to slot cars, a hobby from which I should had never attempted to go any further.

I know some slot cars are rated 1000 mph scale speed. Have any of you measured actual real speed for a Super G+, a 440X2 or a Fast Tracker (not to mention a wizzard car)? Im curious what's the actual real speed (straight) for those cars. I would like to compare it against a Mini Z (unmodified, stock motor) actual speed. Ok, you can derive actual speed from scale speed but Im curious as to measure it with a speed gun or light sensors.

In any case, it seems to me, that many years ago I saw a race set that was kind of a slotless race set but it was an interesting system similar to those used in crashing cars at small town's fairs.

See the picture Im attaching, I mean those cars for kids intended to crash other cars.

So the slotless car got power directly from track (below) and, by means of an antenna, some sort of "ceiling" above it made of a net of fine wires, a tunnel shaped one that covered the entire race set.

I don't know if it is something I actually dreamed or if it is something I actually saw or confused what I saw. 

This way slotless car could change lanes easily and got power easily as it has some sort of antenna that kept constantly in contact with powered net above of it.

Did I dreamed about it? Sometimes I don't know if it was a dream or it was real.


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## slotcardan (Jun 9, 2012)

You didn't dream it,, it existed years ago it just didnt work well and was dangerous.


Yes bumper cars and some trams use that system it's too dangerous in an open space. Most carny games that use that method are behind a window away from the the people an the controls are outside the set.

The net on top is one polarity and the track is usually ground. The cars usually have a ground strip down the center of the chassis, and antenna like arm that touches the net.

That powers the electronics on the cars which is radio controller with out batteries.

Too dangerous for home use since a child would touch the top power and track ground at the same time. Granted we have all touched the slot car rails at one time and maybe gotten a small shock, but the carny type system is just worse. 

Other types of analog power transfer have also been tried, it doesn't work as well. You could do radio power transmission also but you wouldn't get enough amps.


Super capacitor with inductive charging is the future.


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## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

slotcardan said:


> lots of space limittations for 1:64 scale. another issue is wheelbase and width along with weight.
> 
> for a self power 1:64 car you have major problems going above 4.8volts. a typical slot car will run at 20 volts right there you have a big speed difference. electronics to handle larger power would be much larger as well. more volts means more amps means more voltage convertors since logic circuits run at 5 volts. it is how they get away with 5 volt micro battery lipo powered cars.
> 
> ...


but .... but ..... but .... how do you really feel? :wave:


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## gomanvongo (Jun 12, 2010)

slotcardan said:


> lots of space limittations for 1:64 scale. another issue is wheelbase and width along with weight.
> 
> for a self power 1:64 car you have major problems going above 4.8volts. a typical slot car will run at 20 volts right there you have a big speed difference. electronics to handle larger power would be much larger as well. more volts means more amps means more voltage convertors since logic circuits run at 5 volts. it is how they get away with 5 volt micro battery lipo powered cars.


Sort of related: I've picked up a couple of these HW TCR cars for the track - gonna put a pin in, and have wireless slot racing (I know, not necessarily the ideal setup, but still, worth a try- could be the start of a whole new thing!)










It shows that they go loop the loop, so i'm guessing they should have some decent speed. They have no steering to eat power, and make them touchy to drive (they're intended to run on standard plastic HW tracks as well as with their set, and are sold individually) 

Thought they'd be fun to try. I picked up these 2 - but my wife hid them on me till xmas!

















I'll let you know how they work, once I get to unwrap them!

john


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## Ralphthe3rd (Feb 24, 2011)

Re: TCR HotWheels....Interesting, I wish they would sell the cars separately, as there might be some good parts in them !? I'm also interested to know if that Black Roadster body is Plastic- I'm guessing it is


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## gomanvongo (Jun 12, 2010)

Ralphthe3rd said:


> Re: TCR HotWheels....Interesting, I wish they would sell the cars separately, as there might be some good parts in them !? I'm also interested to know if that Black Roadster body is Plastic- I'm guessing it is


They do sell 'em seperately, and all the bodies are plastic- the box claims 500+ scale MPH, so theoretically, they should be able to run against lifelike T chassis no problemo










the setup in the basement is so large, that when there's just 2 of us racing, the cords get strung everywhere while we're picking up de-slots - knocking over scenery, getting tangled, etc. If this works out, it could make for a cleaner basement!

The molds used for the bodies appear to be the same as the ones for the mainline diecast.

Here's the product review that got me looking - these little suckers sure seem fast!






john


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## slotcardan (Jun 9, 2012)

yup seen them before they work like the Aurora Xlerators cars Throttle basically controls the direction, passing occurs in the curves, and there isn't much control to them. you end up flooring it and rolling the dice basically.

they are slow compared to a full slot car.

Xlerators
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqvziLOanKY


tomy R/C on a slotless track
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRxiqpl92vA

modifed tyco tcr with inside lane mod
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usZKu_a8X14

slightly tweaked ultra 5 system
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbxKyIkF58M

I have major mods to the ultra 5 that basically double the power of the cars just have to do a write up and post the information, the mod allows the ultra 5 to run on the tyco tcr or speedsteer systems


I also have people asking me all the time about Sizzlers 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ozRiBn8ryI

sizzlers are basically battery operated gravity cars.. again passing occurs in the curves on the fat track area, these have zero control compared to the old TCR or new TCR systems.


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## gomanvongo (Jun 12, 2010)

slotcardan said:


> yup seen them before they work like the Aurora Xcelerator cars Throttle basically controls the direction, passing occurs in the curves, and there isn't much control to them. you end up flooring it and rolling the dice basically.
> 
> they are slow compared to a full slot car.


Hi Dan, I don't think these were designed for side by side racing - there doesn't seem to be any indication that they change direction independently - I believe they are just straight forward, straight back, no steer, pure throttle. Unlike the Aurora XCelerators, these don't have angled wheels. As for slow, if they pull 500+ scale mph, they've got most of my runners whipped!

I plan on just mounting a pin, and running in the groove.

john


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## slotcardan (Jun 9, 2012)

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## slotcardan (Jun 9, 2012)

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## gomanvongo (Jun 12, 2010)

slotcardan said:


> oh i should point out if you take the new TCR cars and slot them with a pin you can have some fun with lane changing in HO scale however the NEW TCR radio system was not designed to be scalable to more then 2 frequencies, however if you are skilled you can hack more frequencies that would allow more then 4 independent sloted cars on a track but then you need to build the track system to use it.
> 
> that means building your own lane changers or AC2CAR system.... lot of hacking and money but you never get to the level of say digital Slot cars, also you basically have crippled R/C cars sort of a grey area that people don't like,,,
> 
> ...


I'm really just exploring the options, trying to come up with another fun way to use my existing track - it's all moot until the wife lets me open 'em anyway! In terms of lane changing, there's not so much of that on my slot track unless its unintentional - any slotless stuff I've run across has been promptly pinned - even my video racer!!!

At 50% off at the local zellers though, these could be a cheap and easy way to bring a wireless function to the track. I'm not looking at them as a crippled R/C, but rather as a wireless slot controller w/ dedicated chassis. Speed and charge times remain my biggest concern (although, again, they are claiming 500 scale MPH - that's faster than Walthers rates their T chassis.)

Absolute worst case scenario - i give it to my little guy (with a mashed up tyco body on it) and mount the plastic Boneshaker body on a chassis to run with wired controllers.

The upside - if they work out, I can race slot cars even when the power is out!!

john


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## slotcardan (Jun 9, 2012)

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## gomanvongo (Jun 12, 2010)

slotcardan said:


> the stuff is just a toy really


as opposed to the other "serious" stuff in my slot cave? :wave:

they're all toys to me - even the ones that some folks call "collectible". More toys are always welcome in my little world! 

New ideas are a lot like people, some are winners and some are losers, but it's hard to tell which are which without taking the time to get to know them.

john


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## slotcardan (Jun 9, 2012)

well tried to save you money have fun


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

Okay, don't laugh..... no really...... don't....

Back when we ran slotless, the chassis I came to like the best was the Ideal chassis.
I never liked the way the AFX/Tyco chassis lost speed when changing lanes, the Ideal
chassis coast when changing lanes. Although clearly more primitive than the AFX 
speedsteer and Tyco version, it didn't give up a foot and a half or so when changing lanes
while racing neck and neck with another car. The Ideal chassis also worked better with
the Tyco banks. We had a 16ft setup, two long straights with banks at each end. We jumpered
the back straightaway. The AFX/Tyco cars would often not land on a lane out of the bank.
If the Ideal car didn't land correctly on a lane, it would coast until it found power.

One thing the Ideal chassis needs is slip on silicones, the stock tires are horrible.
The better traction provided by silis really wakes them up.

.....random thoughts from a little shack in Texas...


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## slotcardan (Jun 9, 2012)

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## SouthLyonBen (Mar 14, 2012)

Sometimes I suspect Dan never sleeps....


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## Jisp (Oct 19, 2008)

Life is short, there's plenty of sleep when yer in the dirt! Love your work Dan.

That Hot Wheels setup reminds me a lot of the X-Trek micro RC system. The X-T gear is all of your nightmares rolled into one. While nice in theory, it punched well below it's weight. Show me a kid (let alone an adult) that wants to wait 5 minutes for the car to charge on the controller only to get 2 minutes run time. Pffft! In a stupid moment I went so far as to get higher AH rated batteries for the cars but never considered that my charge time would be 10 minutes for a 4 minute run. :freak: To add insult to injury I'm convinced the tyres were made from Teflon to ensure that they had zero grip. The cars deserve no less than being stomped on as you would a roach.

End of rant.

John, ranting aside, I hope the Hot Wheels system is an improvement on the X-T.

Cheers,
Michael.


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## slotcardan (Jun 9, 2012)

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