# OTopic but maybe important: Windows XP updates, etc discontinued starting April 8th.



## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

This may be old news to most of you. And probably most of you are already running something newer,

but I just stumbled across the info that Microsoft will no longer be supporting Windows XP with updates - even security updates - as of April 8th.

I've always updated my hardware as needed and have never seen the need to buy a new version of Windows as they have been doing updates until now.

I think it's a bit of bad timing on the part of Microsoft. And think they should at least continue security based updates,

considering how notorious Russia is for "allowing" hackers to mess with pc's and servers in countries they don't like.

But I'm going to have to upgrade now, probably to Windows 8, for security reasons if nothing else. 

Just in case any of you here at Hobbytalk also still use some version of 64 or 32 bit Windows XP I thought I would give you a heads up.

It will not suddenly stop working, but you may be out of luck if you need to do something like a total reinstall from an earlier disk, etc.

Hope this helps,

Chuck


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## Opus Penguin (Apr 19, 2004)

Was running Windows 7 since it came out and am now on Windows 8.1. I am actually lucky because I got 7 from work, but had to buy 8. So far have seen no issues with either.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

Opus Penguin said:


> Was running Windows 7 since it came out and am now on Windows 8.1. I am actually lucky because I got 7 from work, but had to buy 8. So far have seen no issues with either.


I bought my Windows XP back in 2006, when I think Vista existed but was buggy, slow and an incredible memory hog.

It seems that Microsoft's 8.1 is fairly stable, and since I've been able to keep my components current I'm lucky that I should be able to migrate to it without a problem hardware-wise.

But I've just always hated making a leap to a new operating system.

I used to install and upgrade networks, and learned the lesson early on that most new versions of OS software should be avoided like the plague! 

The leading edge is often the bleeding edge.


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## J_Indy (Jan 28, 2013)

The articles I've read is "Buy a new PC with Windows 8". Baloney.

I have some newer PC's running Win 7 (I refuse to use Win 8). For some older PC's/Notebooks that are actually still running fine for light work/web browsing, I have been playing with a Linux distribution called Zorin OS (Free of course - it's Linux  )

http://zorin-os.com/

(My main hardware recommendation is replace your spindle drive with a SSD and install Linux on it)

It looks like Win 7 for the most part, though there are some differences, especially if you do things sometimes at the "command prompt" in Windows (called the "terminal" in linux).

However, it comes bundled with Libre Office (free), Google Chrome (Firefox if you prefer), and PlayOnLinux/WINE (which will allow you to install/run some Windows applications and games directly in Linux).

IF you MUST have a program that will run ONLY in Windows, if you have your original Windows XP CD, you can create something called a "VM" or Virtual Machine in Zorin/Linux, where you install XP into a "shell" and run XP as an application in linux - you then install your Windows software into that XP "application" and it runs like always.

The advantage of running XP in a VM is that you then use the installed XP (running in linux) to ONLY run your Windows-specific software - NO BROWSING - No e-mail, etc. Do not even install a browser in the XP "shell" (IE is used for the last XP updates - and that's all.) All your browsing/e-mailing should be done in the Linux OS (Chrome/Firefox) which is kept updated against any viruses. Since you never run anything in the XP "shell" that can infect it - you have no security problems from that day forward, even when support for XP is dropped.

Yeah, it sounds complicated, but it really isn't. And after playing with Linux, Windows just looks like more of a pig.


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## GSaum (May 26, 2005)

The only 'windows' I've had to update in the last 6 months was the window in my office that I broke* when I threw my PC out the window and switched to my 27" iMac. Was a PC guy since the days of Windows 3.1, but now I'm a Mac guy and I love it!



*no, I did not really throw my PC out the window.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Wouldja believe most PCs in the giant defense contractor I work for are still using XP? Some of us have been graced with test builds of Windows 7, but there are performance issues with the proprietary nature of the builds. Security, ya know. Weird little things happen, like, if you get an email with a link to click to launch a PDF resident on the company intranet, all you get is an error message telling you to load the latest version of Acrobat (which we do have).


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## J_Indy (Jan 28, 2013)

For older hardware that still runs without a problem (for spreadsheets/writing), I don't see the point in paying $100 per PC to "upgrade" the OS.

You have your power machines that you spend your $ on, and the old stuff that you either donate, clutter a landfill with, or re-purpose as an HTPC or music server or NAS.

Linux does fine for any of those uses. For free. 

IMO, Microsoft made a technical error with the Win 8 interface, and it is making a strategic error with a "forced" upgrade (that isn't as forced as they'd like it to be).


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

John P said:


> Wouldja believe most PCs in the giant defense contractor I work for are still using XP? Some of us have been graced with test builds of Windows 7, but there are performance issues with the proprietary nature of the builds. Security, ya know. Weird little things happen, like, if you get an email with a link to click to launch a PDF resident on the company intranet, all you get is an error message telling you to load the latest version of Acrobat (which we do have).


Yep. New is greatly overrated.

Not suprised that a defense contractor would still be using XP. Especially if they are using 
some propriety hardware. XP may be over 10 years old, but it's been updated tremendously. 
Much better then Vista has been, which is a newer but way less stable product.
With it's current upgrades, it's probably the most stable Microsoft OS.
(Notice I said Microsoft, J_Indy!)

Getting the latest of anything software related often doesn't just give you bragging rights, 

it often gives you the privilege of being on the phone with tech support 
for 6 hours trying figure out what is wrong with it.

Many moons ago, when I was doing network installations, we had a client with Netware 2.3 
who insisted on upgrading to Netware 3.0 when it first came out.

After spending about 15 hours on the line with Netware's tech support, they finally decided 
to construct a server with exactly the same hardware as the one we were installing it on 
- as they kept on telling me it _should_ be working. The next day I got a call - during which 
I made them send me a fax with the same info - from them that said basically, 
"Yes, you are right, it doesn't work. We don't know why. Reinstall 2.3 and get 
back with us for a possible update in a couple of months."

Kept the fax for years as a shining example of why the latest isn't always the greatest.

I'm going to end up upgrading to 8.1. First because at least it has the .1 behind it(though that's a guarantee of little).

But also because it's the same price as everything else they have available, and while there is no guarantee how long 
that will be supported with upgrades, it will at least be supported longer then the stuff 7.x and below.

J_Indy did read my mind on the SSD though!

Ordered a 128MB Samsung one Thursday as that will speed things up in both installation, booting and performance. 
Reinstalling everything from scratch should be three times faster with an SSD and the performance/booting will be improved.

Not thrilled about the situation, but on the bright side at least it has given me an excuse to get an SSD.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

P.S. I know Netware was a Novell product, not a Microsoft one. Just using it as an example guys!


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## J_Indy (Jan 28, 2013)

Chuck_P.R. said:


> Ordered a 128MB Samsung one Thursday as that will speed things up


:thumbsup:

Every PC I have is running on a SSD now. Even the oldest clunker (still in XP) boots in under 30 seconds.

Since Win 8 is supposedly optimized to run some start-up services in deferred-mode, you might get 8-15 sec boot time.


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

You could get Win 7 on a new PC in the big box suppliers, but you had to call or go online. It wasn't available in stores. Not sure if that offer is still good.


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## Fozzie (May 25, 2009)

Win 7 is the new Win XP. It is incredibly stable and without all the "metro" foolishness of Win 8. My company is converting to it now and, I suspect, we will likely be on it for the next decade.

I have been using 64-bit Win 7 with a SSD boot drive for a couple of years now and absolutely love it. I don't think I have ever seen a blue screen with it or even a lockup.


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## terryr (Feb 11, 2001)

My XP is just fine for what I use it for. Don't fix it if it ain't screwing with you. But then my first computer had Win95. In comparison XP is perfection.

I tried upgrading my browser to the newest version and it took twice as much ram. Luckily it installed separately from the old version, so I went back and just updated the old one.


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## Proper2 (Dec 8, 2010)

GSaum said:


> The only 'windows' I've had to update in the last 6 months was the window in my office that I broke* when I threw my PC out the window and switched to my 27" iMac. Was a PC guy since the days of Windows 3.1, but now I'm a Mac guy and I love it!
> 
> 
> 
> *no, I did not really throw my PC out the window.


Always been on a Mac. Have never used a PC.


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## Four Mad Men (Jan 26, 2004)

I held on the XP for as long as I could (before that I held on to NT as long as I could) but have used Win 7 for a good little bit now and have not had any problems. I don't like Win 8 but we did moved to that OS at work so I am learning to make piece with it (i.e. doing everything possible from the 'Desktop' instead of Metro. However I have found that if you think of Metro and the new Start Button/Menu it is less offensive (not that I cared all that much for the Start Button any way).


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## J_Indy (Jan 28, 2013)

Four Mad Men said:


> However I have found that if you think of Metro and the new Start Button/Menu it is less offensive (not that I cared all that much for the Start Button any way).


That's probably how we should judge Microsoft's technical management decisions - It's not as offensive as it could be...It's a WINNER!!  (joking)


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

terryr said:


> My XP is just fine for what I use it for. Don't fix it if it ain't screwing with you. But then my first computer had Win95. In comparison XP is perfection.
> 
> I tried upgrading my browser to the newest version and it took twice as much ram. Luckily it installed separately from the old version, so I went back and just updated the old one.



V
-
I is futile. You will be assimilated.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

J_Indy said:


> :thumbsup:
> 
> Every PC I have is running on a SSD now. Even the oldest clunker (still in XP) boots in under 30 seconds.
> 
> Since Win 8 is supposedly optimized to run some start-up services in deferred-mode, you might get 8-15 sec boot time.



If I can boot in 15 seconds, or even 30, this will be the least objectionable OS upgrade I've had to make - ever.

Though it will be mostly due to the SSD.

I'll be ordering 8.1 Friday.
Looks like I'll be spending the next week
or so getting all my program disks and other
stuff ready. Organizing my existing disks,
yada yada yada . . . 

I'm keeping my fingers crossed!


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## J_Indy (Jan 28, 2013)

Chuck_P.R. said:


> If I can boot in 15 seconds, or even 30, this will be the least objectionable OS upgrade I've had to make - ever.
> 
> Though it will be mostly due to the SSD.
> 
> ...


MS supposedly gave folks the Start Button back with 8.1. If you hate Metro there are always add-ons to get it back to the Win 7 look

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2054422/five-tools-to-bring-the-start-menu-back-to-windows-8-1.html

FYI - like any other drive (spindle/ Flash thumbdrive, SD card, etc) if you discard it at some point (like it fried or you just got something better), you gotta take a hammer to those chips, becuz your data can still be read off them by somebody if they find it and are really interested....


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

J_Indy said:


> MS supposedly gave folks the Start Button back with 8.1. If you hate Metro there are always add-ons to get it back to the Win 7 look
> 
> http://www.pcworld.com/article/2054422/five-tools-to-bring-the-start-menu-back-to-windows-8-1.html
> 
> FYI - like any other drive (spindle/ Flash thumbdrive, SD card, etc) if you discard it at some point (like it fried or you just got something better), you gotta take a hammer to those chips, becuz your data can still be read off them by somebody if they find it and are really interested....


Actually that whole board, chips and all, can be easily replaced.

Hope you didn't just take a hammer to the chips
and toss it drive intact!


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

Best way to go is to buy some of that Sarah Conner Terminator skeleton destroying powder.

You can probably buy some on Amazon.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

By the way . . . :tongue:


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## J_Indy (Jan 28, 2013)

Chuck_P.R. said:


> Actually that whole board, chips and all, can be easily replaced.
> 
> Hope you didn't just take a hammer to the chips
> and toss it drive intact!


I tossed a drive intact once - and found out a foreign Prince with my EXACT SAME NAME had somehow co-mingled his bank funds with mine and needed to take it all back....


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## jgoldsack (Apr 26, 2004)

I have not used XP in years. I jumped onto 7 when it came out and never looked back. 

XP is 15 years old. It needs to be retired. Same thing with windows 95.. eventually they outgrow their usefulness and it is time to move on.

I have tried windows 81. but can't stand it. But the evil person in me installed it on my wifes PC when her PC needed to be rebuilt... muhahah!


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

jgoldsack said:


> I have not used XP in years. I jumped onto 7 when it came out and never looked back.
> 
> XP is 15 years old. It needs to be retired. Same thing with windows 95.. eventually they outgrow their usefulness and it is time to move on.
> 
> I have tried windows 81. but can't stand it. But the evil person in me installed it on my wifes PC when her PC needed to be rebuilt... muhahah!


That is a bit of a misnomer. It's not really 12 years old(certainly not 15 years old) the first version came out 12 years ago.

Since then it has been updated out the wazoo. I sometimes get two updates a week from Microsoft.

The reason a lot of companies are still using it is it's stability.

I've learned that the latest version of Windows 7 is fairly stable, 8.1 a little less so but still pretty solid.

We're talking about an operating system, not a 3D rendering program or video editing software - though getting the very latest of that can cause problems too.

It's the framework that everything else one runs is dependant apon.

I'm glad you have a stable Windows 7 for the programs you are running.

But there is absolutely nothing wrong with XP.

In it's current form it is totally up to date, though the first version of it came out 12 years ago.

The reason MSoft eventually drops OS's is more because they want to force people to go to better hardware, and they don't like having to stay current with drivers for all the older hardware out there.

That's why the minimum system requirements keep going up.

There are lots of people like myself, who buy new components
and upgrade their hardware without a need of a new OS. But 
basically we're stuck in the same crowd that Microsoft is dropping
support for in order to force users with older hardware to upgrade.

That way they are forced to get hardware that Microsoft can push
cross-platform, media intensive services and software to, expanding
their customer base for new software.


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## J_Indy (Jan 28, 2013)

It has always been a Win-Tel alliance - you have to upgrade your hardware so you can run their new OS. The profit motive is the primary driver. While there are legitimate reasons to upgrade hardware for new capabilities (CAD/CAM, complex games, publishing, etc) most people use their PC's for browsing, e-mail, some spreadsheets, and letters.

So how to jack up profits? Force every mom and pop who is running fine to upgrade their stuff.

As a counter-example, you can find Linux distributions that still run in 56K of memory (DSL - Damn Small Linux). There are others that need more but still a lot less than Microsoft.

So sure - if you need the MSFT/INTC combo, you must follow their lead. Otherwise, you can go a different route - at least for some older hardware.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

My Alps printer will only run with the version of XP I had when I installed it on my ancient Gateway. I've never gotten the drivers to load with any later versions of XP. Thus the corner of my office with the old gateway and the Alps printer sitting in it.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

John P said:


> My Alps printer will only run with the version of XP I had when I installed it on my ancient Gateway. I've never gotten the drivers to load with any later versions of XP. Thus the corner of my office with the old gateway and the Alps printer sitting in it.


That's very similar to the main reason I'm pretty much going to be forced to upgrade.

Every now and then I have to do a system reinstall.

My original system disks are from 2006.

So if I need to do another re-install after they stop supporting it I'll lose all the updates that have come out since 2006,
and I probably won't be able to get them back.

I'd highly recommend you buy a cheap low capacity backup drive and clone your Alps configuration, John. Just in case.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

J_Indy said:


> It has always been a Win-Tel alliance - you have to upgrade your hardware so you can run their new OS. The profit motive is the primary driver. While there are legitimate reasons to upgrade hardware for new capabilities (CAD/CAM, complex games, publishing, etc) most people use their PC's for browsing, e-mail, some spreadsheets, and letters.
> 
> So how to jack up profits? Force every mom and pop who is running fine to upgrade their stuff.
> 
> ...


Back when Novell and NT were still duking it out in the Enterprise computing arena, Linux had some appeal to me, J_Indy.

It's an impressive, well designed, open platform.

A decade ago you would have seen me pouring over tech manuals as thick as encylopedias. I had, still have, dozens of them - mostly in boxes.

I just want my stuff to run properly these days.

For me at this point in my life Linux, though a great OS, would just complicate things.

Most of what I knew/may have retained, about Operating Systems - networking and personal - is pretty much obsolete knowledge now.

Relearning and mixing OSystems just doesn't appeal to me much anymore.

Back in the day you would have to get some really weird setups working together for network clients.

Back then it was a fun challenge for me to see what I could get to work together in a network. In somecases we were forced to even connect different topologies.

Right now in my life it would be less of a fun challenge and more like having to do a month's worth of homework all at once.

Linux is a great OS, just for me personally it would complicate things.


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## Frank2056 (Mar 23, 2007)

I use my ALPS 5000 all the time on my Windows 7 machine with VirtualBox (a free OS emulator).

I made a disk image of XP with the latest ALPS driver and now just boot it up within the VirtualBox environment. I have a "shared" folder between the virtual XP and the Windows 7 host, so transferring files is easy. 

Virtualbox doesn't work well with most graphics intensive games, but it's an option to keep XP around for other special hardware or software needs.

Windows 8anything is an abomination; if you must upgrade, get Windows 7 Home Premium or better yet, Windows 7 64 bit Pro.


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## jgoldsack (Apr 26, 2004)

I'm not getting onto anyone who still uses and prefers XP... as a programmer I am well aware of the reasons why someone would stick with XP. My point was more of that XP is already past the typical 10 year life cycle of microsoft products.. it is actually the longest one they have kept supporting.

There are many ways around they stopping of support of XP (many of which listed here). I would not recommend ANYONE to go to Windows 8.X unless you have a touch screen monitor, and even then...


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## harristotle (Aug 7, 2008)

jgoldsack said:


> I'm not getting onto anyone who still uses and prefers XP... as a programmer I am well aware of the reasons why someone would stick with XP. My point was more of that XP is already past the typical 10 year life cycle of microsoft products.. it is actually the longest one they have kept supporting.
> 
> There are many ways around they stopping of support of XP (many of which listed here). I would not recommend ANYONE to go to Windows 8.X unless you have a touch screen monitor, and even then...


I hated windows 8 till I used it on a touch screen. Still not a big fan of it, but I can't imagine using it on something without touch screen.


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## J_Indy (Jan 28, 2013)

Chuck_P.R. said:


> Right now in my life it would be less of a fun challenge and more like having to do a month's worth of homework all at once.


Understand completely. I would be of the same mind except for one thing.... The Google 

I pretty much find the Linux answers I need with a search or two. I am not compiling the kernel on my own (yet, anyway), just trying various versions to see what I like (Linux Mint looks good). All you need is a spare hard drive (a spindle drive will do for playing/testing). I have an older notebook where I don't even secure the hard drive with the screws anymore so I can swap drives out for testing (just don't pick up the notebook and let the drive slip out ;D )

Just as Frank2056 is running XP in VirtualBox in Win7, I am running a copy of XP in VirtualBox in Linux. That gives me Linux upgrades and protection against viruses while letting me run XP in a "cacoon" where only XP-necessary software runs (vetted stuff).

One of my 2 main PC's has Win 7 running with a 23" touchscreen - and IMO the touchscreen was a wasted purchase (but I was just curious).

The reason is that, when you use a touchscreen phone or tablet, it's position conforms to you ergonomically - usually with your arms in a natural, relaxed position.

By contrast, when you sit at a desktop, it is You that is conforming to the desktop. It is not ergonomic to lift your hands to the screen repeatedly to perform tasks. The only time I can see that is preferred is in a kiosk-type environment. The mouse/keyboard position for your hands while at a desk is the most physically economical (IMO). Why that didn't occur to Microsoft is beyond me...... 

So the touchscreen on the desktop turned out to be just a toy - and that's pretty much all it still is now.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

I agree with everyone's comments about the social media and smartphone-looking window "panes" being a pain(pun intended).

I'll be using my new OS in desktop mode, which I understand from FourMadMen's post just takes a click after startup.

Will look into finding a way to directly boot to it if possible. If not, one click or so won't kill me.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

My SSD arrived yesterday by the USPService

My OS 8.1 is supposed to arrive today by UPS. 

Where I live USPService is pretty reliable and careful with
my packages. 

The approach of UPS Delivery people in my area to package
handling is the same as seen in the video I'm posting
the link below to.

UPS loves to drop things like hard drives over my
6 foot fence. Luckily for me the hard drive came
via US PService.

The guy in this video has the opposite problem,
US PService he has is not as responsible as my mailman:


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

Up and running in 64bit Windows 8.1.

18 seconds from boot to desktop due to the Samsung SSD.

So far so good . . .

Wahoooooooooooooooooooooooo!


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## J_Indy (Jan 28, 2013)

Chuck_P.R. said:


> Up and running in 64bit Windows 8.1.
> 
> 18 seconds from boot to desktop due to the Samsung SSD.
> 
> ...



Once SSD - forever SSD. :thumbsup:

FYI - if your motherboard has some connections you don't use (like a serial port or parallel printer port), if you disable them in the BIOS the system might boot even faster because it does not have to check those connections during the POST. (But leave it alone if you are not comfortable doing that).

18 seconds is good enough.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

Didn't have time to optimize my drivers yesterday.

I did a little reading while waiting for the 8.1 disks to
arrive.

Reminded me to let Windows try to do it's own drivers
for all my hardware, do a "search for updates" on each
piece manually under Device Manager and let it do any
updates. 

_Then_ go to the individual hardware's websites and install
their specific drivers for the OS _only after_ Windows has 
done it's thing.

Not doing so can cause a conflict of course,
especially if you do it for a graphics card - 
which should be easy to remember but could
cause a slip up, requiring you to re-insert your
card and/or reboot from the install disk.

But also, letting Windows see and install it's
drivers before installing the manufacturer's 
lastest drivers can screw up your system too.

After letting Windows do the drivers yesterday,
I downloaded new drivers for my display adapter,
scanner, and TV boards.

Now it's booting in about 12 seconds!

So far I'm loving it. But again, I have only been
using the new set up for a day.

The social panes are obnoxious, 

but rather thenget rid of them I'm just clicking 
on the one labeled Desktop, 

and I get to a semi-familiar
Desktop instantly.

Figure it's best to leave the new
cell-phone looking desktop there
and learn it gradually in the event
I need to use it on some other 
computer, I'll then know how to
use it - even if I don't have any
attraction to it now.

I genuinely expected a much worse
install experience.

Though again, I can't stress how much
the SSD probably improved the experience.

Hopefully in a few years the capacity will go up
past 1 Terra Byte and the price will go down too.

Would love to have a couple of 4TB SSD's!


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## MartyS (Mar 11, 2014)

J_Indy said:


> Once SSD - forever SSD. :thumbsup:


It sure does spoil you, a little more than a month ago I built a new desktop and put an SSD in. Boots from off to fully functioning windows 7 in 12 seconds. Instantly made the fairly fast laptop I got back in the fall seem like a dinosaur.

My home desktop was the last XP computer I had, all win7 now. 

If anyone is curious I put the parts I built on PCpartpicker.com:

http://pcpartpicker.com/b/Mnl

Went with liquid cooling and a case with 200mm fans, very quiet system.


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## J_Indy (Jan 28, 2013)

Actually, I think we were all conditioned to think of the Windows-Wait-Forever-To-Boot as being "normal". Truth is, for Windows users, it was more "Got no choice - gotta wait".

I think Samsung now has 1TB SSDs. Western Digital has 1TB hybrid drives where a large amount of NAND is a big cache for a spindle drive, giving you SSD performance and large storage.

Of course they are expensive - and unless you need the space, kind of overkill just for bragging purposes.

One of my original 64GB drives that's over 2 years old now runs Linux - and only uses 9GB of space.


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## MartyS (Mar 11, 2014)

J_Indy said:


> I think Samsung now has 1TB SSDs. Western Digital has 1TB hybrid drives where a large amount of NAND is a big cache for a spindle drive, giving you SSD performance and large storage.
> 
> Of course they are expensive - and unless you need the space, kind of overkill just for bragging purposes.


Yeah, there is rarely a need for ultra fast access to that much data.

Current price for the Samsung 1TB SSD on Amazon is $455, the 2TB drives I put in my new build were $85 each.

Those WD combo drives are interesting, nice if you are upgrading a laptop, but if you've got room in the case I'd still go with separate drives.

Then there is the issue of lifetime, you really don't want to use an SSD where you are constantly writing to it. At least if you want it to last more than a few years.


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## J_Indy (Jan 28, 2013)

MartyS said:


> Yeah, there is rarely a need for ultra fast access to that much data.
> 
> Current price for the Samsung 1TB SSD on Amazon is $455, the 2TB drives I put in my new build were $85 each.
> 
> ...


IMO paying more for a large SSD is a waste if you have an Intel-CPU motherboard with a Z87 chip that can do Intel's Rapid Storage Technology (RST) because you can then use the Smart Response Technology to use a SSD as a cache for a large (much cheaper) spindle drive.

SRT will cache the most frequently used files on the SSD and write data to the spindle drive as a background process so you don't notice any delays.

Non-Intel motherboards with Marvell chips can do the same with their HyperDuo technology. Fast access, cheaper large storage.

The only time I can see paying for a WD that does both in 1 drive is (as you said) in notebooks - or if someone doesn't want to mess around with RAID in the BIOS.


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## Bruce Bishop (Jan 17, 1999)

I might buy a new laptop and use that for internet browsing, paying bills, etc. 

I don't have a life so a desktop is really all I need or use, so maybe I would get one instead. They don't seem to come with any room for upgrades though. Since I have a few external hard drives and other peripherals, I expect I could use them with either a new laptop or desktop if I need anything extra other than maybe a memory upgrade.

My remaining 2 functioning, up to date XP machines are used mostly for editing movie/tv recordings I make, removing commercials etc., and then burning nice keeper DVD's for myself to watch. I enjoy it for some reason, it satisfies my hoarding desires (lots of DVD's I will probably never watch again but they are available if I want), and it occupies my time. 

I can simply not connect these to the internet and just use them as I usually do anyway, until they die, as my fastest and most-favored machine recently did while I was getting the other two ready before the support cut-off date.

I really don't know for sure what I will do yet. I hate change, since changes in my life are almost always for the worse. But I might at least look more closely into the current version of Windows for an OS on whatever new computer I get.


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## J_Indy (Jan 28, 2013)

Bruce Bishop said:


> I might buy a new laptop and use that for internet browsing, paying bills, etc.
> 
> I don't have a life so a desktop is really all I need or use, so maybe I would get one instead. They don't seem to come with any room for upgrades though. Since I have a few external hard drives and other peripherals, I expect I could use them with either a new laptop or desktop if I need anything extra other than maybe a memory upgrade.
> 
> ...



If you are not using a SSD but have a friend who has a PC running with a SSD you should check it out, as it is the best bang-for-the-buck improvement you can make to an existing PC (since a platter HDD is always the bottleneck on a PC).

There are also vids on YouTube comparing SSD's to HDD's






BTW - OCZ went bust, so I wouldn't recommend them - I have an early OCZ SSD and never had a problem with it, but there are a lot of complaints from other people about their reliability.

Of course, it depends on what you do with the PC - and a completely new PC is always nice to have.  I've never gotten a lemon when buying a SSD, but they exist - just make sure if you get one to work it like a horse while you can still RMA it.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

System update.

Just as I was in the middle of an email Friday.

Lightening struck the pole my cable feed's box is on.

Only blew a couple of light bulb filaments AC wise, but my Cox cable
installer neglected to ground the cable.

So my cable box was fried,

And my motherboard via my cable TV card as well!

Plus who knows what else! Won't know until my new 
motherboard comes in.

I had just finished uploading all my drivers less then
an hour beforehand.

I'm firmly convinced the Gods of Upgrades hate me.


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## J_Indy (Jan 28, 2013)

Geez...... :freak:

Did you buy a Retail copy of Win 8 or an OEM copy? If Retail, you are fine - if OEM and you activated the license during install, Microsoft ties the OS license to the hardware serial numbers in the motherboard chips, so you would have to call them so the reinstall on a new motherboard does not show up to them as an installation/license violation.

Don't suppose the cable installer company will foot the bill for the new hardware.... (sound of crickets). :drunk:


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

Definitely retail. 

I've reported the issue. And have been told that the box will be replaced, and anything else damaged by the ungrounded cable I'll be reimbursed for after the tech confirms the cable is not grounded. Though I will still be out of pocket on everything but the box until then.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

Finally back online with my PC!

Darn lightning hit the pole with my cable connection on it!
When cable service was finally restored to my neighborhood
more then a year after Katrina they re-ran my wiring.

I had made sure the old wiring was properly grounded.

I never would have imagined that they would have run new
wiringing and just not hook it up to my existing grounding
mount! They had srewed down a new pass-through grounding
block within inches of the old one and never bothered to 
transfer the grounding wire!

So they blew two $80 Monster power surge protectors
through the coaxial surge connection), my
internet modem, my motherboard through my Haupauge TV card,
and my cable box!

Sheesh!!!

If you aren't sure if your cable installation is grounded, check it.

Even if you have a coax protecting surge protector it will not help
you if your cable isn't grounded and you get a lightning strike at the
pole.

I've talked with several of my neighbors whose cable lines turned out
to not be grounded either.


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## BolianAdmiral (Feb 24, 2009)

I will use Windows XP or Windows 7 until they put me in the ground. My eyes shall never be sullied by the abomination that is Windows 8. Microsoft is offering $100 towards the purchase of a Windows 8 machine because they know it's such a gargantuan steaming pile of horsie crap that they have to pay their own customers to use it. Even then, I'd just buy the new machine and upgrade it to Windows 7.

If Windows continues to suck this hard, that's fine... I have a Chromebook I use and so far, it has been the single most problem-free computer I have EVER used. So I still have Chrome OS, Mac OS, or Ubuntu to fall back on.


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## Bruce Bishop (Jan 17, 1999)

I think I can still buy a new Toshiba C55-A5195 laptop with Win 7 on it for $500 from a local store. Not sure what the processor speed is. It has both VGA and HDMI outputs so I can use my old CRT monitor(s) until they die, and I could use the HDMI for streaming internet video to my TV. 

Anybody know about Toshiba quality? All I've ever owned are Compaq, HP and eMachines and have been VERY happy with all three brands.


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## BolianAdmiral (Feb 24, 2009)

Toshiba makes some good laptops. I just bought a brand-new Dell with Windows 7 installed as an option, so it IS still possible to find PC's that ship with Windows 7.


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## MartyS (Mar 11, 2014)

The HP laptop I bought in December had windows 7, they had stacks of them at Microcenter in PA. And they still have loads of windows 7 system builder discs for sale, that's what I got when I build my new system a few months ago. So I'm thinking I'm safe for 10 years, figure they have got to come out with another good OS in that amount of time.


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## Jim NCC1701A (Nov 6, 2000)

John P said:


> My Alps printer will only run with the version of XP I had when I installed it on my ancient Gateway. I've never gotten the drivers to load with any later versions of XP. Thus the corner of my office with the old gateway and the Alps printer sitting in it.


Mac user, but this is the reason I have a PC with XP on it, for if/when I ever need to print my own decals.
But I will be making a backup of that drive...


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

An excellently timed reminder! 
In honor of the occasion, I've done a repair (re)install of XP. Suddenly my computer is blazing away at light speed (compared to what it was a couple days ago). You can almost hear it giggling, it's so pleased with itself.
To do a repair install, you need your windows disk, your product code, and about an hour. Good instructions at Wiki-How. It left everything else on my computer completely alone. Nothing seems to have changed except all the malware, registry errors, and all the other Windows problems it could have picked up in the last dozen years are fixed. 
Of course you need to go to Windows afterwards and get all the updates you need as they will all have been wiped out. For me, that included downloading and installing Service Pack 3 (about 30 minutes) and then 152 post SP3 urgent updates (about 90 minutes) plus 39 optional updates (30 minutes). In 2 or 3 days time, I guess those 152 + 39 updates will no longer be available. 
Before I did all this, I ran nine different anti-virus/malware/rootkit programs (as each seem to pick up different things, and 8 did) to make sure the computer was ready.
Microsoft has announced that in the next couple days before support ends there will be one last major and critical XP update, so make sure your computers are set to automatically update.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

starseeker said:


> An excellently timed reminder!
> In honor of the occasion, I've done a repair (re)install of XP. Suddenly my computer is blazing away at light speed (compared to what it was a couple days ago). You can almost hear it giggling, it's so pleased with itself.
> To do a repair install, you need your windows disk, your product code, and about an hour. Good instructions at Wiki-How. It left everything else on my computer completely alone. Nothing seems to have changed except all the malware, registry errors, and all the other Windows problems it could have picked up in the last dozen years are fixed.
> Of course you need to go to Windows afterwards and get all the updates you need as they will all have been wiped out. For me, that included downloading and installing Service Pack 3 (about 30 minutes) and then 152 post SP3 urgent updates (about 90 minutes) plus 39 optional updates (30 minutes). In 2 or 3 days time, I guess those 152 + 39 updates will no longer be available.
> ...


Glad the thread helped somebody!

Make sure to backup your drive afterwards, if possible.

If you need to do a reinstall from the disks afterwards, you probably won't be able to update your old XP again.


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