# The end of the magnet era at Sequoia.



## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

Over a big Denny's breakfast this morning the "interested parties" who have continually and consistantly raced at my track over the last year decided that magnet car speeds, now approaching 3/4ths of a second, are just way too fast. With how fast things were over and done with at Yoshi's track we decided that this is the last series that will be raced with magnet cars at our 3 tracks. 

Like Indy, Sequoia was built for cars that were to be going quite a bit slower. T-Jets to be specific. So we decided that once this 6 race series is over in late April we're going to trade in our LifeLike NASCAR cars for T-Jets and DASH VW bodies, Karman Ghia's and Beetles. Mini-stockers. A new T-jet with a DASH Cobra 427 body will run a lap in 2.43 seconds, on Mosqueda Speedway the laps are 3.08 seconds, and on the Yoshimira banked oval wide open it's 2.5 seconds flat out. This is on 3R white letter tires though, and we intend to run skinny's, possibly skinny silicones.

The mini stocks haven't been tested, I don't know which one will work best but I may just build one of each and then test. Yoshi is already leaning to the Karman Ghia, so is Mr. Champion. I'm hoping to have a field of a dozen cars by mid summer with EVERYONE owning their own cars this time. 

In anyone has any experience with the DASH Beetle or Ghia please chime in, I'm interested in seeing more pictures of what can be done with them as far as lowering, etc. Rules have to be written, much will concern the chassis but if a body template is going to be required then I'd like to have that written in as well.


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

More power to ya Pete! With your talent for scenery, why go so fast? 
I wonder if DASH would make a COT for Tjets?

Rich :thumbsup:


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

Rich I think the mini's will be a blast. We're talking now if we want to go with just a regular JLTO chassis with the wide rear tires or go with NOS narrow front and rear wheels and tires. I'd love to use either the resin or injected 3R wheel sets but I've been reading a lot of postings about poor quality lately. If we used the JLTO chassis it would simplify things a great deal not to mention make them less expensive. We want to keep each car to less than $25, and you can actually get a Release 5 VW Beetle for only $14 if you wanted to run that body. 

We're just going way too fast at Sequoia. I mean, when we were going 1.05 seconds I thought it was too fast, now we're running a full 2/10ths below that. I can't even SEE my car at those speeds, and driving by sound don't work with 3 other cars lapping with you. It looks like I'm pretty much completely done with the kids series, my latest attempt to get community center kids involved off site failed when the new rec supervisor removed all of my flyers. 

I'm going to finish this series then place all of my Lifelike cars up for sale to finance my own T-Jet mini stock fleet. I can't afford to build my cars, Sarah's cars and a few rent-a-racers any other way. This evening Yoshi raced my green DASH Cobra against me and my DASH Galaxie in a very nice 100 lapper, we were sideways much of the time but amazingly we didn't crash as much as either of us expected. We then ran about 50 laps on the flat Mosqueda Speeday and did alright. At least it was much easier for me to see and track my car. My Galaxie is on a fairly new JLTO, the Cobra is on a Fun-Jet chassis with 3R wheels and silicones and it was pretty close to even as long as I could run the inside lanes.


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## BRPHO (Aug 1, 2006)

Hey Pete!

Keep me in mind when you go to sell those Life Like COTs!!!!

I want to pick some up soon.....

Thanks!

Wayne :thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## noddaz (Aug 6, 1999)

*Another option...?*

You could pull the traction magnets, add weight and run the cars a 12 volt...
Give it a try... 

Scott


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## 1976Cordoba (Sep 20, 2000)

I think the JL / AW tjets would probably have too much grunt for the skinny NOS tjet tires. Maybe one of the tjet pros around here could recommend a way to gear them back a bit.

As far as Scott's suggestion for taking the little dot mags out of the LL cars, maybe give that a try also. I have a LL sprint car that was wicked fast on my 8' oval (9" & 12" Tomy turns) but I plucked the mags out and it became much more reasonable. The motor mags were plenty to keep it tracking but it was still able to wiggle a little coming out of the hole.

Oh, and the Dash bug is a little tight in the doors on an AW chassis. A little - not a deal breaker.


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## win43 (Aug 28, 2006)

1976Cordoba said:


> I think the JL / AW tjets would probably have too much grunt for the skinny NOS tjet tires. Maybe one of the tjet pros around here could recommend a way to gear them back a bit.


You can slow down the JL/AWs by changing them to a 9 tooth pinion gear and a crown gear like on the original Aurora tjet chassis.


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## martybauer31 (Jan 27, 2004)

win43 said:


> You can slow down the JL/AWs by changing them to a 9 tooth pinion gear and a crown gear like on the original Aurora tjet chassis.


I second that, they run much better with the 9 tooth....


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## slotcarman12078 (Oct 3, 2008)

That 9 tooth modification is what I've been doing to slow down my cars. You will find though that the skinny Tjet tires are still squirly and hard to control. The AW arm is hotter and the magnets a bit stronger. A little R+D will be needed to find the right combo of wheels/tires, etc to get what you're looking for. As far as swapping the 14 tooth AW for the 9 tooth Aurora, I've found (thanks to Bill Hall) you need to do the following:

1. Remove the back gear with a flat screw driver.
2. Take off the top plate and remove the pinion and shaft.
3. Get a drill bit the same size or a hair larger then the pinionshaft hole and open it up just a touch on the top plate and the chassis base. When opening them up you will need to favor towards the rear of the chassis and top plate. With a dremel it goes quick so be careful you don't over bore the hole.

I never measured up the gears to see where the size discrepency is in the gear train to see where the difference is.. I'm sure one of our TJet Gurus has the answer to that one.

4. Pull the rear axle and swap in an Aurora Tjet crown. Reasseble and test. If it's "tight" the odds are the pinion shaft needs a bit more room towards the back so work the dremel again in the pinion shaft hole. This conversion uses the AW back gear on the top plate. I'm not sure how brass gears across the top will effect the spacing, as I've never attempted that part of the swap. 

I've done this conversion about 20X now, no expert for sure, but I've done enough to make me dangerous. It's very easy to over bore the hole if trying to do this while on the phone!! Ooooops!! 

Hope this info helps, Pete!


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## eastside johnny (May 13, 2008)

Regarding the LifeLike sprint cars......We run a "spec tire" which is a silicone drag tire that measures .500 OD. Every one gets the tires out of the bag on race night & returns them after the races are finished. The tires raise the car up enough to take away some of the down force and that allows us to cut the voltage down in the area of 9-10 volts so the speeds come down relative to the handling. We allow any of the LifeLike chassis and they all seem to work pretty close. We've also lowered the center section of the body down between the side pods which helps the handling some but really makes them look a whole lot better & more accurate. I'll have to look for some pictures


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

Scott we've been running the LL cars on 12v since Sequoia was built, even on 9 volts they are just too fast for my bullring. The track was built for T-Jets and X-Traction cars, and I bowed to the racers that wanted to go fast. I've raced pancake motor cars since they came out in the 1960's, and it was huge here in the early to mid 1980's. The group I raced with then pretty much did everything possible from magnet shimming to rewinding arms. I just happened to get into vacuforming bodies for my modifications. The cars we're running now except for the wheels and tires are out of the box stock with the stock gearing.

The JL/AW cars work great with Road Race Replica's resin wheels and those sticky white letter tires. For me it also makes them look better, I just can't get past the wide rear tires sticking out of the body. A set of wheels and tires are $7, the #821 narrows are $3.50, $4.50 for chrome. We're still talking about that aspect of the racing. 

Wayne, I'll PM you a list of the cars I have available now, my CoT's aren't being used at all and nearly all have no time on them. *I need to offer anyone who donated CoT's for my kids race, if you want the cars back please let me know and I will send them to you.* I'm not going to actively pursue getting neighborhood kids involved anymore.


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## BRPHO (Aug 1, 2006)

Hey Pete!

Thanks!

Just PMed ya back....

Wayne :thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## noddaz (Aug 6, 1999)

*wow...*



> Scott we've been running the LL cars on 12v since Sequoia was built, even on 9 volts they are just too fast for my bullring. The track was built for T-Jets and X-Traction cars, and I bowed to the racers that wanted to go fast.


Ok... Sorry that idea didn't work... I wouldn't think a LL car would even come off the track at 12v with it's traction magnets...
Hmmm.. Tjets it is!!! 

Scott


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

It's Official, Yoshi has offered to help "sponsor" the new class of car by building two rent-a-racers. DASH Motorsports VW Karman Ghia and VW Beetle bodies have also been named the SPEC bodies. Mr. Champion has agreed to supply 5 new chassis of my choice, either NOS or JL/AW. Sarah has placed an order for a pink DASH Karman Ghia with yellow wheels, not too sure yet what I'm going to race but I'm leaning towards a Beetle. I think Yoshi and Mr. Champion have both said Karman Ghia's.


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

Whoa Nellie! Stab those brakes! Go Ghia Pete!

Better fit on the chassis.

Better weight distribution.

More aerodynamic.


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## Yoshi Nagura (Feb 9, 2008)

Bill I would think more for a lower CG than anything else.

The real problem with Life Like cars, any magnetic car for that matter, at Sequoia is that we've gotten to the point in our tire technology where the "hard" spec tire isn't so hard anymore. Everyone has gone to soaking their tires in alcohol, lighter fluid or lacquer thinner to make them softer and sticky. With the neo magnet helpers you only have to lift off, "breath" them into the corners and then you're wide open again. With out 10 lap qualifying runs you can actually race flat out for the first two or three laps, then have to lift ever so slightly once your tires pick up a little track dust. It's no longer racing in the drivers hands so much as who has the fastest, or freshest car.

When a Life Like car crashes it's a matter of a catastrophic loss of downforce and the car flies off. They don't just spin out, they will deslot and travel to the wall (or beyond) before stopping, often coming back into the racing lanes. A simple crash can set you back half a dozen or more laps with the guys going 0.80 seconds per lap, if you make it off the layout you are pretty much done for that race. This isn't how it was meant to be a year ago when Pete and I built this track, and for months now I've been nearly begging to do away with it. With a pancake motor car if you spin (chances are you will) you can get back in with only losing a lap, maybe two. They have not made it over the new walls, nor to the floor. If you drive in deep and the rear end comes loose the guy behind you will pass you, but then you put the pressure on him and wait for retribution. Side to side contact, or Pete's famous Bump and Run, isn't such a big deal because cars stay on the track. This is another big reason to not use the JLTO rear wheels and tires.

With the T-Jets we will have guys like John Mears build a $100 car to win a $5 race, and that's where I personally have a problem with open rules. The absolute first thing that we all agreed on was not to have the Ultra-G cars at all. We may as well go back to T-Chassis if we did that. We will be allowing some rather liberal motor rules but stock magnets are a must. The 9T pinion sounds like a good rule, I'll lobby for that too. I like the tire and wheel sets that make the cars look like real race cars, not a dualie pick-up truck with a car body on it. I agree that the OEM skinny tires are too skinny, and the alternatives are the cottage industry guys like Road Race Replica's who have long waits for their products. All we can do as promoters is anticipate and order enough extra for guys who will want to get into this class later on. We've switched a lot as far as classes go in the past trying to find that one single class that works here. T-Jets always have so that was the logical choice.

An entry level car will be the Release 5 VW Beetle with the spec wheel and tire set that will be supplied by us. I don't know what it will be yet, we have time to decide that much. Guys who build their own cars can choose from the DASH Karman Ghia or the VW Beetle with no modifications to the body. That means no lowering and the windows must be intact. Mean Green arms, aftermarket brushes and springs and gearing will be OK but other than dying and/or boiling the chassis can't be touched. Ski shoes only, and a plastic based guide pin although the BSRT delrin will be fine. No weights or extra hidden magnets will be allows and the cars will be actively inspected for that. 

I don't know if the gentleman that does the DASH cars frequents this forum but if he does I'd like to congradulate him on his past works and I can't wait to see both the Beetle and the Karman Ghia on chassis. In April I'll be ordering the parts for the rental cars as well as my own and Sarah's. I love the Cobra I got and the VW bus as well. I plan to build a small trailer to haul my Ghia to the races after Pete modifiy's by bus into a VW Bus/Truck. Pictures will follow.


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

...some modifications will be allowed to make the Beetle more.....competitive.


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## noddaz (Aug 6, 1999)

*Thread steal!*

I bet it's a blast to see the 1:1 Fun Cup cars run....




Pete McKay said:


> ...some modifications will be allowed to make the Beetle more.....competitive.


Back to our regular programming...

So, what kind of mods are you planning?

Scott


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## PD2 (Feb 27, 2003)

Pete McKay said:


> Wayne, I'll PM you a list of the cars I have available now, my CoT's aren't being used at all and nearly all have no time on them. *I need to offer anyone who donated CoT's for my kids race, if you want the cars back please let me know and I will send them to you.* I'm not going to actively pursue getting neighborhood kids involved anymore.


I'm sorry to hear this Pete.  I know I sent you some, but can't remember which ones I sent you. The only one I'd even be remotely interested in would be the M&M car because my daughter loves M&M's. Other than that, you can do with them what you want bro. They were for the kiddos, but if that's not the plan anymore then I understand. Those resources are entrusted to you to do with them as you see fit. Feel free as even their value was to help you out as much as possible - personally and event wise.

Let me know.

PD2:thumbsup:


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

Hehehehe, we're not going to really allow any Beetle mods, at least not until we're sure they would need them. One other reason that Yoshi didn't touch on is with the Thunderjet class of car we're getting close to the rest of the scale of the track. Virtually everything on it is true 1/87th HO scale. With T-Jets, which are close to 1/76th I believe, we're more in scale that with 1/64th cars. If I'm measuring my track right as a 1/5th mile and Yoshi is running 2.50 second average laps that makes the average T-Jet speed to be about 288 MPH. This beats the nearly 900 MPH that a car running 0.80 average laps it doing. Even at a one second per lap car is supersonic around the oval at 720 MPH. When we crank the voltage down to 9 volts we still get sideways but the average times are in the 3 second range, and in the 240 MPH range. For a realistic speed of 90 MPH average (super modified speeds) we'd have to turn laps at 10 seconds. 

Paul I don't have the M&M's CoT, never got it. I got the 2 Dale Jr's, Stewart/Lagano and FedEx cars as donors. The #38 M&M's car I do have is the older style that I got from Lucky Bob's. 

The only reason I'm not running with the kids is because I have no place to run other than my house. I really don't want some marginal thugs in my house, especially with my armory and other stuff. Some of them were great with the magnet cars but I think the TJ's are going to be above their skill levels.


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## vaBcHRog (Feb 19, 2003)

1976Cordoba said:


> I think the JL / AW tjets would probably have too much grunt for the skinny NOS tjet tires. Maybe one of the tjet pros around here could recommend a way to gear them back a bit.
> 
> As far as Scott's suggestion for taking the little dot mags out of the LL cars, maybe give that a try also. I have a LL sprint car that was wicked fast on my 8' oval (9" & 12" Tomy turns) but I plucked the mags out and it became much more reasonable. The motor mags were plenty to keep it tracking but it was still able to wiggle a little coming out of the hole.
> 
> Oh, and the Dash bug is a little tight in the doors on an AW chassis. A little - not a deal breaker.


Change the crown gear to 19T and replace the JL magnets with TJET magnets that will slow em down

Roger Corrie


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## vaBcHRog (Feb 19, 2003)

Pete do you have any HP7 ? Put a Mattell NASCAR body on it and run them at 6 V if they are too slow kick it up to 10v

Keep the stock tires and they slip and slide like a TJET

If you want to run more Modern NASCAR with a TJET I have a Dodge and Monte Carlo and Ford looking thing there also may be one more mold. I will make you a fresh mod and you can cast your own. Let me know if you are interrested

Alos try running your TJETs on 12vdc slows them down a bunch but all the tunning and buliding tricks still apply A car that runs good and smooth with coast runs almost as good on 12 VDC

Roger Corrie


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

Roger we went the Tyco 440X2's without traction magnets and had great success with my vacuformed bodies. The cars, IMHO, were what that track could handle. They were also cheap to put together. They had an abundance of horsepower, way too much actually, but the lack of adequate traction kept the relative speeds down. But as with the Lifelike cars the traction issue was beginning to see guys do things to their tires that would have in short order brought the speeds back up. I have a very nice polymer magnet XT with a mean green arm and silicones that does very well on the track now, and that is well beyond the modifications that will be allowed.

When we start running the T-Jet cars we will allow a silicone based SPEC tire, weither it be from 3R or someone else. There's not much you can to to a silicone other than keep it clean and that will be one less thing to regulate. I had pitched vacuforming bodies, I already have a late model for them, but Yoshi and others were interested in the old pictures I have of the cars from that era.

As far as bodies, I appreciate the offer Roger and I'll pass it along to Yoshi. Moonstone makes a dirt modified that I found interesting but at $15 put the cars above the $30 cap we'd wanted. We just thought that the mini stocks would be cool on the T-Jets, that way if we had a hobby stock or super stock class with XT's it would all work out. It all gets back to the type of cars that raced on the track I grew up around in the 1970's, which were Bug and Ghia mini stocks and 55-56-57 Chevy hobby stocks. A year ago this was what we thought was going to be the draw at the track, now it's what we will race ourselves. We get a few races in and guys want to change classes, we had to follow. Now we're changing the class, let them follow us.


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## brownie374 (Nov 21, 2007)

The best thing to do with a lifelike car is mount posts on the body and put it on a t-jet!


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## vaBcHRog (Feb 19, 2003)

Pete,

The spec tire I would use would be Rocket Scinces. You can easily tell their tires and they slide when the break free. The PVT/American line tires tend to hold harder into a corner then break hard or a very quick slide were teh Rocket Science tires are a smooth slide. Beside Jacks prices are great and if you get one of his dime bag rejetcts its even a better deal.

Roger Corrie


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

Brownie, tried that, they're a bit too wide.

Sounds good Roger, I dug through a parts box and found some of the 3R narrows to try out. The tires are a couple years old though so I don't know if they're still any good. Mr. Champion brought us 3 brand new Release 5 VW Beetles to play with today, we threw some silicones on them and went at it for a while. Lots of tire to tire contact as I expected, we are just going to have to run narrow wheels and tires on the cars. Unfortunately when he left he took the cars with him. :!


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## PD2 (Feb 27, 2003)

Pete McKay said:


> Paul I don't have the M&M's CoT, never got it. I got the 2 Dale Jr's, Stewart/Lagano and FedEx cars as donors. The #38 M&M's car I do have is the older style that I got from Lucky Bob's.
> 
> The only reason I'm not running with the kids is because I have no place to run other than my house. I really don't want some marginal thugs in my house, especially with my armory and other stuff. Some of them were great with the magnet cars but I think the TJ's are going to be above their skill levels.


That's right...no worries then. The cars are all yours to do with as you please bro.

And I do agree. You don't want these kids knowing where you live, period. Hopefully, one day, the kids series can come back. I think its the worst thing that the City could have "cut back" on and they are going to feel it. Maybe you ought to ask them if you could be considered for the police force since you know you will see some of the same kids come through there that were coming through the center? 

Have fun with this series! Sounds like you guys are going to have lots of interesting classes and plenty of test and tune, while racing time.

Enjoy my friend!
PD2:thumbsup:


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## 1976Cordoba (Sep 20, 2000)

What are the track specs for Sequoia? 

Is this it?










Looks like 9 & 12 turns, with a pair of 15s on the straights. What's in the middle? A 6 or a 9?


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## gonegonzo (Jan 18, 2006)

I'm intriqued by the small bullring tracks.

I'm interested on any specs you might share as to the construction of your tracks including Mosgued and Yoshimira.

Thx,
Gonzo


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## BRPHO (Aug 1, 2006)

Hi Guys!

Not to steal Pete's or any of his racers thunder but I modeled my track after Pete's initial track also.

It is a Life Like 4 lane oval with 9" curves on the inner 2 lanes and 12" banked curves on the outer 2 lanes.

My straights are about 12' long by useing 15" straights and the 9" terminal tracks.

Pete's original 4 lane track of Sequoia speedway was my inspiration with all the great scenery and grandstands it has!

T-jets and xtractions are a blast on a track like this!

You all should give it a try!!!

Hanging those backends of the t-jets out in the banked curves is a blast!

I know all of you have your track preferences but dont write Life Like off as junk.

It is working out great for my racing needs and is inexpensive to build with also......

Wish I could post pics but we are just now into the digital camera age and figuring things out.....

Back to Pete know since it was his thread!

Hey Pete!

Just throwing more Kudos your way my friend!

Keep them in the slot!

Wayne :thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

LOL Wayne, no problem, maybe we need a dedicated Bull Ring thread too. 

This is actually the second "Sequoia Speedway". The first is actually called Mosqueda Speedway now and is 9"/12" with 4 15" front and back each lane. It's considered the big track now in the 3 track circuit.

'doba, that is indeed the current Sequoia Speedway, taken during construction a year ago. 9 and 12 inch corners with 2 15's and a 9' inbetween them. The 9" carries not only the terminal track wires but the magnetic reed switches for the race management computer. There is a window cut below the straight to access the bottom. This is how the track looks today:










Gonzo, I think I documented the construction on the forum, I'n not sure how much of the string is still available though. Here's the start of the track:

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=215284


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

Ovals are a blast, but in my humble opinion, you have to do something to get the lap times up around 3 seconds, minimum, or you will get very dizzy very quickly. I've run on 18 foot tables configured as quad ovals with 18/15 turns and the faster magnet cars were really tough to race at 18V. We ended up cutting the heat times down.

Plus, if your lap times are less than 3 seconds marshaling can be a nightmare. With sub 3 second lap times the reaction times of most semi-attentive marshals seems to align perfectly with the rest of the pack coming around for another shot at the marshal's thumb, or worse yet, the wrecked car being placed slightly askew in the slot, resulting in another, even bigger pileup.


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

Yoshi Nagura said:


> Bill I would think more for a lower CG than anything else.....snip


Hence my initial comment on weight distribution Yoshi. It's not only THAT something has weight it's where that weight is that matters.

If I was a lobbying member I'd go for a scenario of fixed chassis requirments for both and allow the beetle competitors some latitude with body mods.

Just by eyeball, the ghia has a fairly level stance where the bug has tail up top heavy stance that's gonna be a nose rollover-a-thon in turns one and three further excerbating the tendency. Where the bug has it's saddlebags in tight the ghia has its baggage out wide. Clearly the beetle has approx. a third of it body mass well above the chassis plate rails. The ghia has 1/4 to 1/5 of its body weight above the rails.

I like Pete's the idea of Porschefying the beetle to make it a fair fight! :thumbsup:...or maybe allow the bugs to go topless in a speedster coniguration!???  

If y'all are gonna race apples and oranges I'd go the extra mile to leveling the playing feild.


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

I just want to be the first guy to smoke a Ghia with a bug. We're not going to know absolutely for sure until we get both cars on the track. Remember that two of the tracks are banked, Sequoia only slightly but Yoshimera is high banked and high powered. The Beetle may also be heavier, which may help traction out of the corners. If we find out there is a noticable advantage with the Ghia adjustments will be made. 

JAG Hobbies has everything we need, including the 3R wheel sets in stock. I'll be ordering my car parts Friday, hopefully I'll get some $$$ on my birthday Thursday from my kids. There is a $40 cap on the cars, we don't have a claiming rule but it has been mentioned. That will allow a driver to have a mean green and some hot aftermarket brushes.


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## 00'HO (Nov 19, 2004)

Hey Pete, I'd like to weigh in on this discussion. On our oval we are racing Dash Super Mod Sprint cars JL or Aurora chassis NO TRACTION MAGNETS, open gearing, brushes, shoes, arm (mean Green), open front end, open rear wheels, open slip on silicone tires. These cars nerf and tumble like the real thing. We run them at 20V. Nice pick of our set up at: http://www.daveshoraceway.com The JL muscle car bodies are fun too. We got away from racing the magnet cars for 8 years now. We now use our magnet cars to warm up the track for the t-jets. We and fray like guys have proven you don't have to do 2.7 on a 60 ft road course or .75 as you were talking about on your oval to have fun racing HO cars. Now we are 7 second, 2.1 on our 28 ft oval.... Much more marshal friendly. T-Jet cars have a longer run time, true to scale, just make sense. Our race cars depending on body, cost around $50 after up grades, that is cheap racing my friend.
Oh, please don't let anybody sell you on the hard to rebuild BSRT G-Jet.
Have fun !


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## BRPHO (Aug 1, 2006)

Hey Pete!

Happy early Birthday my friend!

It is my 3 year olds Bday today.

Taken her out for ice cream shortly.

I'll be sending $$$$ your way tomorrow for the cars.

I hope this helps abit in getting your new projects off the ground and on the track racing shortly!

Thanks again!

Wayne:thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## tjet princess (Oct 27, 2008)

I'd like to weight in since I get left out of a lot of the discussions. 

I didn't want the VW's mainly because back months ago I was hoping we were going to do the fairgrounds cars from Road Race Replica's. I've told my husband that I would prefer muscle cars, and with the Dash bodies that gives us 8 to choose from:

(based on images on the Jag Hobbies site)

60's sedan (anyone know what this car is?)
Falcon (I assume it's a 63'-65')
Galaxie (64'?)
Camaro (must be a 70'-71')
69' Chevelle
65' GTO
70' 442
'68 Road Runner

Then all that would need to be considered are the wheels and tires, which can be series defined. All of those motor parts, if someone wants to spend that sort of money then let them, within reason of course. I hate claiming races because I've lost two really nice cars in them. Sometimes you just get that one chassis that just works, and some idiot (Yoshi) will race and lose on purpose just to be able to claim the car. Oh yeah, I got the car back, along with stretch marks and morning sickness. 

The point is if everyone is going to run a Karman Ghia in a mini stock race then either make that body the series defined body or make it so there is some better variety. Dash isn't going to go out of business, the bodies are available and plentyful, just make them stockers rather than mini stockers. Plus besides the Dash cars there are bodies that come with the cars that would also be allowed for the guys who want to spend less to race. Just put on the defined tires and they would be ready for under $20.


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## Yoshi Nagura (Feb 9, 2008)

What could be made available by using a Hobby Stock style car:

DASH: 60's sedan, Falcon, Galaxie, Camaro, Chevelle, GTO, 442, and Road Runner.

Model Motoring/JL/AW: GTX, '69 Charger, '70 Chevelle, '64 GTO, '68 Torino, '64 Dodge 330, '68 Firebird, '65 Mustang HT and 2+2, GTO, '62 Impala, and Fairlane. These are the one's I know and am aware of, other 1960's era sedans may also still be available.

Road Race Replicas: Any 1960's era NASCAR style with no modiifications permitted. 

Allowances: Front spoiler below front bumper no more than 1/8th inch, rear spoiler on rear deck lid no more than 1/8th inch. Air cleaner may be represented sticking out of hood, exhaust pipes may also be represented but must be made from plastic parts only. No lowering or lightening. Glass and both bumpers must be in place. Wheel wells may be radiused to fit 3R #811, #814 or #816 wheel and tire sets but no more than 1/16th of an inch larger than tires. 

And this is just the body rules proposal. This becomes necessary because, as I said in an earlier post, guys will loophole these rules to pieces. 

And for the record, Sarah was the one that made the deal to get her cars back, I just went along with it like a kid with a $50 bill in a candy store. Remember babe, I'll be the one who deals with a crying baby at 4AM while you sleep away.


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## 1976Cordoba (Sep 20, 2000)

OK I am going to suggest something that we have been doing locally since 1994 with great success. Keep an open mind and hear me out.

After getting the track specs for Sequoia this morning, while working on some rebuilds for our upcoming sports car season, I set up a 'Sequoia Test Track' on our hardly ever used pool table.










I used Tomy track, with stock 22v wall pack and used the inside lane of the 12" radius turn for testing.

The cars we have been running since 1994 have been Tyco HP7 with NASCAR die cast car bodies. The new Winner's Circle NASCAR COT cars like the one below fit the long wheelbase HP7 dead nuts perfect.










To mount the body to the chassis is a simple deal -- take a Q-Tip and put a thin coating of vaseline along the sides of the chassis. Then, take a small tube of clear silicone and put a small bead along the inside of the body at the bottom of the doors. Smooth it back a bit with a popsicle stick and slide the chassis into place and let it dry overnight. Next day, your chassis will slide out easily. You will need to Dremel the rear quarters slightly to enlarge the rear fenders and get good clearance (don't do it before silicone'ing the chassis because the tight fender clearance helps to properly locate the chassis).

This is what one of the new COTs looks like mounted up and race ready:









More in a minute.


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## 1976Cordoba (Sep 20, 2000)

Here is a shot of what the silicone mounts look like when dry. You can also see where the fenders have been radiused.










Also note that the Tyco HP2 Curvehugger uses the exact same mounts as an HP7, in case you want to go even slower / lower tech.










We run on the stock HP7 rubber and in my runs on the Sequoia test track I was running at about 2.3 to 2.5 seconds per lap at 22v. The tail was sliding, the car was moving, the tires were spinning, but it was racy just like the way we have been running on my 8' oval since 1994, shown below, which is five 15" and one 9" straight with 9"/12" turns.










Anyway, for cost, here is how I see it:

COT die cast $4.99-$5.99
HP7 - $11 Lucky Bobs
HP2 - $10 Tubtrack on feePay (LINK)
NOS HP7 tires - $2-$3 pair

I highly recommend considering this - PM me with any questions.


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

That sounds pretty good using Diecasts, although I think the God of Diecasts would need an extra sacrifice at the alter they have me maintain in my extra room. I have bought a number of extra cars (other than Kenseth) for my collection and have even entertained using Patto's decals to redo some of them. I may try this just to check it out for myself, I really don't like my JPM diecast anymore.

'doba, the only difference between your outer ring of Sequoia is mine is banked at eight to ten degrees. Throw two CD cases under the outer edge and tape down the inner edge and you'll have it. It's amazing how much even that small amount of banking affects the cars.

Since my kids are far flung these days (Sarah is in the Bay Area, Yoshi is way across the county) and we all use the same 'net card not everyone can get online at the same time. Sarah is right about opening up more choices and I'd go for that. We can even make it the "Hobby Stock" of two classes, the Super Stock cars using the Ultra G chassis is necessary. The use of OEM bodies for some who either are just getting into the class or can't afford anything as fancy as a DASH body (they're only $11 people) is OK, and someone could start with, say an AW GTO then get the DASH body later. But we're talking about only one aspect of the whole class here, and much is being made over the body style. Body style is secondary IMHO.

I heard back from JAG, he has the 3R wheels sets in stock, and that, for me is very important. Other than the decal sheets the wheel sets are what will be needed for this class. I ran laps with my Galaxie running "factories" and a Fairlane with "Steelies" and I'm pretty happy with how the cars handle. One has a mean green arm and hot brushes, and I have a better idea on how we will do on longer races. The tires stay cleaner than regualr silicones longer, and in a 100 lap race you would only need one stop to tape. I feel that this might be the way to go.


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## BRPHO (Aug 1, 2006)

Hey Guys!

'Doba, nice looking track!

Wish mine was that far along scenery wise!

I want some billboards like yours!

What did you use for the pit road wall seperating pit road and the rest of the front stretch?

In regards to what Pete said about the banking, that is why I went with the Life Like track do to the outer 12" curves having the gradual banking built in already.

It is a slight banking which I like unlike the tomy/tyco banking which is kind of drastic on their banked curve types.....

Hey Pete in regards to the 3R wheels, how well do the cars run with these?

I love the look but I was cautious in buying any do to the post awhile back on HT saying they were wobbly when trying to race with them?

Can you shed some light on this?

I may pull the trigger and buy some myself for some of my t-jets if the seem to be okay when running.

Like you the tires hanging out of the back wheel wells on t-jets just arent cutting it with me in regards to the overall look of the cars.....

This will eventually have to be corrected by me since it seems we are stuck with AW cars coming this way.....

Thanks guys!

All your knowledge and help has been greatly appreciated!!!!

Take care!

Wayne :thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

I've been buying wheels from 3R directly for about 2 years and I've never got a bad set. The regular custom wheel rubber is soft but not too soft, the white letter tires are a lot softer and feel like silicone. I've never tried the narrows although Yoshi has a car that has them on it, they work OK. I like the steel wheels the most because they actually look like steel wheels. My Fairlane has Factories on it, sort of dog dish type hub caps but still with a racing look. My DASH BRG Cobra has Cobra wheels and Goodyear Polyglas white letters on it. I won the only T-Jet race at Laguna Seca and Yoshi won a handful of races in Japan with it. It's won a couple of grudge races at Sequoia as well. Of course it's an all out racer with Mean Green, JB's Thunder motor brushes and springs, polymer magnets, a longer guide pin, RT-HO RT-150 lightened gears and plated pick up shoes. It is a true $90 T-Jet to be sure.


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## 1976Cordoba (Sep 20, 2000)

Pete McKay said:


> That sounds pretty good using Diecasts . . . I may try this just to check it out for myself . . .


Do it -- You will be surprised at how well the HP7 behaves with a metal body on it. The motor has enough grunt and speed to move the body along nicely, and the weight of the body keeps the chassis solidly planted. The bar magnet is pretty weak so you really have to drive them and work the throttle. On short ovals they are a blast, really, and our group here loves them.


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## 1976Cordoba (Sep 20, 2000)

BRPHO said:


> Hey Guys!
> 
> 'Doba, nice looking track!
> 
> ...


 
Thanks Wayne

The pit road wall is some 8' long trim that I have been getting at Menards thru the years -- pretty much use it for retaining walls at all my tracks. When I go to buy it I usually find it near the bathroom remodeling stuff.

It has a nice flat white front face (wall side) with a second, shorter face behind it. This is how it looks from behind on my road course:










I don't know what it's called but here is the sku / product number / bar code thing if you want to look it up:










My billboards are just decals that I mounted to plexiglas. The plexiglass then slides into the gap between the front wall and the shorter back wall. Nothing permanent, easy to take them down to store the track. I'll try to shoot some pics later. :thumbsup:


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## slotcarman12078 (Oct 3, 2008)

As much as I like the body style, I would suggest forgetting about the Dash falcon. The body is tight with stock Tjet rubber on it. I tried a set of wierd jacks wide whites and they are a no go without some serious inside trimming. Unless the tires are tapered from rim to tread some grinding of the wheel wells and the front inside the bumper is done, I doubt anything other than stock tires will do. The other thing I've noticed with the falcon is, the front tires don't line up right in the short wheelbase hole. The rim is centered when it's in the truck hole adding to the clearance issues already mentioned. I can post pic's if you would like to see what I'm talking about..


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## BRPHO (Aug 1, 2006)

Hey 'Doba!

Thanks for the info!

Also to you Pete!

Both of you have been very helpful with answering my questions! :thumbsup:

I will have to look for that finish strip. I like the idea of putting the billboards on plexiglass and having the strip hold them in place!

Great idea!!!

Pete, I will be investing in some 3R wheels also.

I really think they make the look of the car.

Vincent wheels are nice too!

I have a '69 chevelle by Dash with some on it.

I think MEV is the only one carrying them though.....

Thanks again!

Now we can proceed with regularly scheduled programing.......

Wayne :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## JVerb (Oct 6, 2006)

sorry.


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## JVerb (Oct 6, 2006)

Guys I would go with the 821's from 3r. The 821's are injection molded and run true without any wobbles. I have over 75 cars set up with a variety of 3r wheels and the 821's are the best, next would be the steelies. I have not had very good luck with the rest. Good luck with the new series. Oh yeah the raised white lettered tires work pretty good , I would go with a slip on silicone like Road Rage 360’s and trim them to fit the wheel.
Peace, Verb.


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## gonegonzo (Jan 18, 2006)

There's a wealth of information within this post.

I also didn't realize that many racers had the smaller bull ring tracks.

I hate to see it end.

Gonzo


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## BRPHO (Aug 1, 2006)

Theres nothing like getting sideways in those banked curves!!!!!

Especially with t-jets!

The nice thing about the oval tracks or "bullrings" as you guys like to call them is you can fit a lot of racing in a realitively small space.

My track is set up on a 28" wide table by 12' long for a 4 lane track.

It takes up what is basically a shelf down one wall of my basement.

Plus it is easy to reach cars that are deslotted due to how narrow it is.

I am starting to begin the scenery being a model railroader also and I think the scenery really adds to the realism of the racing.

It gives you a feeling of actually being at a given time and place at a small or large hometown track!

Now mind you I love racing the road courses also!

I have a 36" x 80" hollow core door that I think I will be building an afx international set on eventually.

I will probably build the tuckaway track on Greg Brauns site for a little variety.

There is a wealth of knowledge on this thread!

Lets keep it flowing!!!!!

Wayne :thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

Pretty much moot after this morning. Sarah has decided to sponsor the first 10 cars in the class to HER desires, which include the 3R fairgrounds cars and steel wheels with RWL tries. She is writing me a check for $230 when she get back from the bay area in April.


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## BRPHO (Aug 1, 2006)

Hey Pete!

Nothing wrong with that!

You get new toys to play with paid for buy your sponsers!!! LOL!

Fairground cars with steelies and RWL tires are a good thing!

Now you need an oval painted up like dirt kinda like Eldora here!!!

Detail the cars out with dirt and mud splotches for some realism.....

Nothing like playin' in da dirt!!!

Years ago I use to go see the World of Outlaws sprinters at Fremont fairgrounds.

That was a blast plus you got to take home as much dirt as you wanted because you were covered in it by the end of the evening!!!!

Those were good times just like your about to have on your track!!!!

Enjoy my friend!

I need to get me one of them thar sponsers!!!!

Know of any that may want to sponser me? LOL!!!

Wayne :thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

Here's what we're trying to get back to:









































































These are all from the mid 1970's at Pan American Speedway, San Antonio, Texas. These are the guys I grew up around racing with and the cars. This is what we hope to get back to. This is why Sarah wants to get back to this type of racing, because I have so many memories of this stuff. Our cars will be similar but a lot cleaner, at least at first.

http://www.lonestarspeedzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=10512


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## gonegonzo (Jan 18, 2006)

Nice fairground pictures Pete.

I think the word were looking for here is simplicity. 

A time when there seemed to be no pressure. Innocense wasn't too far behind you and the furure still held your dreams.

Nostalgia !

Uh Huh , take me back.

Gonzo


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## HadaSlot (Oct 22, 2007)

I love it. I have been eyeballin those fairground Stockers for years. They will fit perfectly with the proposed "dirt" track that I want. Winged would be my favorite dirt car but the rest can slide just as well. The right front is a good place for a Big wheel. Maybe I have pictured this but I really dig them. I would love to race the 1/4 rc bit but it is very spendy as well as very cool. Dirt or paved. Lovin' the Oval. David


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

David, I do a vacuformed XT sprinter that uses the pot handle body mounts to hold the body in place. The orignal mold was done in 1986 or so, it has been updated a couple of times. Here's some history for ya...




























Check out the right front of my super mod...










These are all bodies I made the molds for and vacuformed at one time or another.


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## BRPHO (Aug 1, 2006)

Hey Pete!

Thanks for sharing those pics and the memories!

That was when racing was real!

That type of racin' is right up my alley!

You just cant get enough of it!

That is what Nascar should be............

:thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## gonegonzo (Jan 18, 2006)

HadaSlot,

You showed us a pic of the nice little sprint car.

Give us a pic or some stats on your oval track.

Pete,

Nice line up of sprinters and I like the mounting system on the magnatraction car.

BrPho,

You have a PM. 

Gonzo


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## ohno50 (Dec 30, 2008)

Pete McKay said:


> Here's what we're trying to get back to:
> 
> 
> These are all from the mid 1970's at Pan American Speedway, San Antonio, Texas. These are the guys I grew up around racing with and the cars. This is what we hope to get back to. This is why Sarah wants to get back to this type of racing, because I have so many memories of this stuff. Our cars will be similar but a lot cleaner, at least at first.
> ...


WOW! I didn't know that web site existed. The Wares' were our neighbors in the mid-sixties. Spent the late sixties and seventies across 35 in Live Oak. Know the place very well. Thanks for posting the history.


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

ohno, you're probably talking about their house on Joline, I lived behind the Presbyterian Church that was across the street from the KTSA driveway, first house on Hialeah. I went to school with Ricci Jr. from elementary school (ETH) through graduation at TR. Trey is on KTSA now, so is Ricci Sr. In 1989 Ricci Jr. smacked the wall at Highway 16 and almost killed himself. The very first time I saw the speedway was in 1966 from the top of a tree when I was being babysat by some friends who lived off of Farsight Drive. You and I may have crossed paths there from time to time. Nice to find someone from the old home.


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## gonegonzo (Jan 18, 2006)

Small world huh guys ?

Ya know , this post has really been inspiring to me.

At the present time , I'm on lay off status. I work as a Union Carpenter. It's hard to predict this economy so I've elected to do some work around the house while on lay off status.

One such project is my sun porch. New windows, lights, wall covering and eliminating the over excess of chairs and funiture that usually ends up in that area. As I was working, I was thinking that the porch would be a great place to put a track and it won't take up even a fraction of what the junk did. Besides that, when not in use, the legs can be folded up and it can be stored against the wall or even behind the door.

With the junk cleared out, I found that I have enough room for a smaller track like Pete's , 2'x6' using 9'' / 12'' rads.. That's will be good for T-Jets and low end cars. I'm not into super sonic cars anyway. 

Yesterday I found a piece of plywood that would work and made the table, installed folding legs and crash barriers. Years ago I had a slam bang oval set up made from TYCO track on the outer lanes and Life Like on the inside lanes. It's been covered up in the garage for years. I robbed the TYCO track off of it and added some more TYCO to it to build this little bull ring. I'll be laying track some time today.

Unfortunately, I don't have room for a permanent track. I do have 2 portable road course's set up on 4x8's. I also have a larger oval that I started over a year ago but it's unfinished. When finished it will be 4x8 with an insert that will give me an option to make it 4x14. It will be a portable as well.

Like I said, this post has been wayyyyy inspirational and fact finding.

As an added note, as a kid growing up in the 50's qnd 60's , my uncle was involved in 1/4 midgets and dirt track cars in and around Youngstown, Ohio. I've always been around the dirt tracks and naturally they set the theme to a lot of my slot car structuring.

When I get time, I think I'm going to give the "diecast cars" a try on HP7 chassis'.

Gonzo


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## BRPHO (Aug 1, 2006)

Hey Gonzo!

I never got the PM from you you said you sent in your earlier post?

Hey you ever run with any of those guys down around Youngstown(Pete Storey, John Litva, Matt)?

Just curious.....

I see them and swap with them from time to time and hook up at the Richfield show for BSing and such......

Sorry Pete!

Didn't mean to high jack you again and get off on a tangent!!! LOL!!!

Its all good!!!! :thumbsup::thumbsup:

Wayne


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## tjettim (Nov 29, 2005)

Since the move to go slower is gaining popularity,
why not run the original article? Aurora vibrators?


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## gonegonzo (Jan 18, 2006)

Hi BRPHO,

I tried another PM to you. Let me know if you get it or not.

I know Pete and John but not Matt. I used to race with them but got involved with the Pancake HO's and 1/24th hardbodies . 

I see Pete in the shop form time to time and of course at the show. 

Are you involved with any racing groups in your area ? I race with the Yahoo Group VASCRA based here in the Ohio Valley and the Pittsburgh area.

Till later, Gonzo


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

Tim, I really wanted to race motorcycles, especially at my old Laguna Seca track, but I have only been able to acquire 2 through e-bay in the last 2 years. There's not a lot of replacement parts for them so they rarely race.


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## tomhocars (Oct 19, 2005)

*Dash Ghias*

Here's a couple of pink shots.I have all these cars in stock




















[email protected] Tom Stumpf


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## dkreibich (Mar 11, 2009)

I don't know if this was in a previous post...i must admit i didn't read all of them. But i know someone makes a COT car. I'm not sure if it's LifeLike or Road Race Replica's or BRP. I'm not completely sure, just check around. I'm almost positive the Life Like cars do not come with posts for a T-Jet however, You can easily put in a post with some plastic and MEK. We run a similar series in RCHORA with NASCAR type wide bodies on a T-Jet. Check out www.rchora.com and look under Driver profiles then Drew Kreibich. The #4 Dodge Charger is what we run on a stock Johnny Lightning Chassis. 

*site only works correctly with Mozilla FireFox or Safari, IE is a horrible program and you should not use it anyway *

Drew Kreibich


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

The standard HO car body is too wide for a T-Jet. Tried it. We're talking about the difference between a 1/64th car and a 1/76th car for the most part. Lifelike makes a CoT car, I have most of them and they run good but they are way too fast for bull rings even with restrictor plates. 

Tom, once Sarah see's that pink Ghia I'm sure she'll be in contact. Right now of all the members of my family she's the only one with money. She's always the only one with money, I just don't know how it works out that way. Those bodies are great, I still have my Galaxie and it still wins once in a while when we step back into the 1960's.


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## dkreibich (Mar 11, 2009)

We run a wide body on a t-jet/johnny lightnight chassis. The cars barley fit next to each other on the track but it makes for some close racing. The bodies handle a lot differently because of the wide stance. i'll take a picture of some that we run this weekend and post them on our website


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## gonegonzo (Jan 18, 2006)

dkreibich,

I've ran the Life Like cars converted for the JL T-Jet chassis in an IROC race in Pittsburgh some time back.

They are affordable to build, look like a race car and make the race a drivers race. 

They are a blast.

I'm looking forward to seeing your pictures. 

Gonzo


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## mahorsc (Mar 26, 2008)

we race jl/aw under posted and mounted life like bodies with the southern sportsman group on the east coast they are ball and super fast


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## dkreibich (Mar 11, 2009)

yup those are what we are racing. They handle amazing and fun to rub each other through the corners. A few guys I run with are starting to use the COT's not sure if they handle any differently with the wing on the back.


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## resinmonger (Mar 5, 2008)

*Just what Dr. Scale ordered!*

dkreibich and mahorsc,

Those cars look great. They're the perfect answer for TJet chassis with Fray-width wheels. When a Fray chassis is run under a TJet body, it looks a little funky (IMHO) with the wheels sticking well out of the body. That same chassis looks normal with a wide, 1/64th scale body. Great idea!

:drunk::hat::freak::dude:


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

I agree with that assertion. I hate the way Fray's look. Never thought of using a standard Ho body in those instances. I dunno though, maybe I'm a purist wanting to stick with the skinny tires.


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## 1976Cordoba (Sep 20, 2000)

The Dash '55 Chevy for tjet is just the AFX-size bod with mounting posts, in case anyone doesn't have one and might not know that.


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## Dunk21 (Mar 23, 2007)

what about using the t-jet fairgrounds cars road race replicas makes?










i think they look pretty good


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

Obviously you haven't read the entire string, since that's exactly what was decided last week.

March 9th:



Pete McKay said:


> Pretty much moot after this morning. Sarah has decided to sponsor the first 10 cars in the class to HER desires, which include the 3R fairgrounds cars and steel wheels with RWL tries. She is writing me a check for $230 when she get back from the bay area in April.


doba, thanks, I was wondering about that. I think we have Mr.Champion convinced to start carrying some 3R stuff in his shop but he wants to see what we get first. Rumors are he's thinking about a small shop in Fresno but he wants to carry all scales of stuff. I nthink Hobbytown USA would put him out of business on the big scale stuff but we don't have an HO dealer in the area, he is the closest in Bakersfield.


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## BRS Hobbies (Feb 16, 2006)

Pete,

I haven't read the entire thread so I apologize if this has already been mentioned. 

Have you thought about removing the traction magnets from the LL COT cars and using a good aftermarket silicon tire in the rear? I haven't tested the cars in this configuration but I am sure they would drive pretty good at a reduced track voltage. The AFX SRT cars run really good (without the traction magnet) at 12 to 15 volts depending on the track layout.

Best regards,
Brian


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## eastside johnny (May 13, 2008)

In regards to some of the posts about using die cast bodies,.....several years ago I started buying up die cast dirt late model cars (2,3,4) every week at the dirt track races. As of now I have 26 of them mounted on Tyco 440 X-2 pan chassis running with the stock tires. The front wheel openings needed to be enlarged a bit with a high speed bit in the dremel but we run then at 10 volts and with the added weight of the bodies and the stock tires they are a blast to drive, but certainly not a piece of cake. Different from anything else that we run! I'll see if I have any pictures handy. Regarding the Fray versus skinny tire T-Jets, I've always thought that the best thing about T-Jets was the way that they drove and handled. (and looked) More of "Model Racing" than "slot car racing" Magnet cars have several levels from box stock to unlimited and I feel that the same should apply to the T-jet & other pancake motor cars as well.


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

Brian, not a problem, it's a personal thing between Dunk and myself, didn't mean to have it spill over in the forum again. 

We tried a few configurations of various cars with traction magnets removed, all worked well but the horsepower vs. traction thing always comes into play. With the 440X2's sans traction magnets the cars pretty much do burn outs the entire length of the straight, even on 12v. Same thing with Tomy cars. With those cars there's really nothing you can do to the motor to make it faster, faster isn't a problem. With a pancake motor, well you know the list is endless to what can be done to make them better even in stock configuration. Plus there's always the element of "chance" in getting a decent arm or chassis set up. 

Everyone who races at the track loves the TJ's and XT's, the only real stickler has been what bodies. Sarah is settling that and I'm pretty pleased with how well everyone jumped on the band wagon. The only real hold up is how long it takes Road Race Replica's to make them, and understanding it's a two man operation with a HUGE market for their stuff we can deal with it. We just have to anticipate and try to order ahead. I have 6 bodies on a piece of paper that is being added to daily, besides the hot pink '57 I'm not sure who is getting what.


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## 1976Cordoba (Sep 20, 2000)

eastside johnny said:


> In regards to some of the posts about using die cast bodies,.....several years ago I started buying up die cast dirt late model cars (2,3,4) every week at the dirt track races. As of now I have 26 of them mounted on Tyco 440 X-2 pan chassis running with the stock tires. The front wheel openings needed to be enlarged a bit with a high speed bit in the dremel but we run then at 10 volts and with the added weight of the bodies and the stock tires they are a blast to drive, but certainly not a piece of cake. Different from anything else that we run! I'll see if I have any pictures handy . . .


We do that too but we run the HP7s under them and race them at anywhere from 18 to 22 volts (wall warts). They really giddy-up. We call them Outlaw Late Models.









I like this shot a lot because it was taken under green flag racing. :thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## eastside johnny (May 13, 2008)

Cordoba.....what did you used for your dirt track surface?

Mine is a couple layers of different textured paint. As you can see, it's not a smooth surface!


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## eastside johnny (May 13, 2008)

and another shot


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

Please.

It almost looks like my failed attempt with Fleck-Stone paint only much better.


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## eastside johnny (May 13, 2008)

That's what it was!.....couldn't think of it.
Sorry if we got off topic.


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## 1976Cordoba (Sep 20, 2000)

eastside johnny said:


> Cordoba.....what did you used for your dirt track surface?
> 
> Mine is a couple layers of different textured paint. As you can see, it's not a smooth surface!


That track is just standard issue Tomy track inlaid into a 1/4" plywood sheet with the plywood painted black. I think the lighting of the pic makes it look textured when in fact it isn't.

Love the late model shots -- :thumbsup:


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## gonegonzo (Jan 18, 2006)

East Side Johnny,

Doe's the Fleck Stone make the cars hop any . I realize the texture isn't extreme but in HO scale it's be like cobble stones. Just curious. It's a great look.

Both you and Doba's late model diecast cars look good . Very realistic. It makes me smell the clay dust in the air and the deep grunnnnt of the engines snarling in the night air. Rolling Thunder if you will. Now that's poetry for a racer rite ? LOL

Gonzo


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## eastside johnny (May 13, 2008)

Hopping isn't a problem, but I did sand down any high spots which is what shows up as the different colors. It does however limit the tire traction a bit, kind of like a hard slick dirt track! What is critical to running on the track is pick up shoe wear. Due to the build up of the surface relative to the rails, if the shoes have a groove worn in too deep they can lose contact in some areas when the shoe actually rides on the track surface and doesn't contact the rails. NEW shoes are almost required after every couple of race nights. The used shoes are still good for cars on other tracks but that's just one of the characteristics to deal with. Not unlike having different axle sets for each lane with higher end magnet cars.


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

HEY!!!! We got sponsors!!!!! I'd like to personally thank Madoff Investments, Circuit City and Enron Energy for their pledges. 

I don't know what happened with the Fleck Stone when I tried it, I must have just sprayed in on too heavy or something. 'doba, yeah could be just angle and lighting but it sure looks textured. Sequoia's surface is a smooth as a pane of glass, which makes regualr hard tires hard to hook up on. Silicones love it though.


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## gonegonzo (Jan 18, 2006)

East Side Johnny,

You have a PM 

Gonzo


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## gonegonzo (Jan 18, 2006)

OK guys, we had a good post going here. 

No new news ???? What about yesterdays race or wrench session. We can't let this post die can we ?

I painted my oval table yesterday. I worked it in around the porch remodel. The Domestic Superintendent didn't know the difference. lol

That's all i have for right now. I plan to work on some T-Jets today. I'll fill you in on the details later on. 

This wil at least bump this post up so it can get some oxygen .

Till later, Gonzo


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

Race will be in a seperate thread. We played with a few T-Jets, the results were about the same as always, my DASH Cobra and my DASH Galaxie ran the show with the lighter Cobra taking the win at the end. It was a short day due to health problems, I ran everyone off by early afternoon so I could take a nap.


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## BRPHO (Aug 1, 2006)

Hi Guys!

Well, I can add to the post also in a bit of a different way.....

The GT cars came to Bolton Raceway Park this weekend!

I picked up some xtraction chassis off T-Jet Racer the other day and they arrived Friday.

I had some Tomy SRT vintage bodies that needed chassising so naturally to slow them down from the srt they came with, I put the xtractions under them.

The race field consists of the Tomy #7 Chappy, the Tomy #9 Daytona Cobra,The blue with white striped #1 Tomy GT40 and a Dash white with red stripes AC Cobra.

Quite a colorful field of cars going around the 4 lane banked oval known as Bolton Raceway Park.

All were equally matched box stock.

I prefer to run the Tomy cars this way to slow them way down from the magneted rockets that they started out as.....

It was a lot of fun to run them this way.

With a little skill you can get them to slide in the curves!!!!

Thats it on my end until my new box of goodies arrives from Pete this week!!!!

I can't wait to have the Nascars arrive to run on the high banks...

Pit road still needs to be finished yet and the pit garages built before the haulers get here.

Time to get at it!

Never any rest for the wicked....

Wayne :thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## gonegonzo (Jan 18, 2006)

Yesterday i didn't get as much wrenching done as I wanted.

I did et some T-Jet chassis' striped, cleaned and ready to boil.

I also was working on my Life Like sprint car making some body mods.

I'm picking my grandson up after school today. Will be running some laps with him afterward on the newly built 2 x 6 TYCO oval that this post inspired .

Gonzo


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## Dunk21 (Mar 23, 2007)

Pete McKay said:


> Brian, not a problem, it's a personal thing between Dunk and myself, didn't mean to have it spill over in the forum again.




stop trying to defame my business who cares if i didn't read the whole thing i just mentioned what i think would work


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## Yoshi Nagura (Feb 9, 2008)

Dunk21 said:


> stop trying to defame my business who cares if i didn't read the whole thing i just mentioned what i think would work


Defame your business? You little jerk, two years ago you were trying to market someone else's sprint car body design as your own. Then when Peter wouldn't sell his bodies to you you tried to get someone else to buy them and send them to you to rip him off that way. You've tried to sell useless vacuformers on e-bay, and when someone tried to help you, like Pete, you sit there and say he's trying to rip you off. Defame you? You defame yourself.


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## Dunk21 (Mar 23, 2007)

*You Just Proved My Point!!!!!!*



Yoshi Nagura said:


> Defame your business? You little jerk, two years ago you were trying to market someone else's sprint car body design as your own. Then when Peter wouldn't sell his bodies to you you tried to get someone else to buy them and send them to you to rip him off that way. You've tried to sell useless vacuformers on e-bay, and when someone tried to help you, like Pete, you sit there and say he's trying to rip you off. Defame you? You defame yourself.



thank you:thumbsup:

you have just proved my point,

IF i was selling non working vacuum formers then how the :drunk: do you think i vacuumed formed cars? oh yea i used the vacuum fairy  

Secondly: i did my homework that mold was not from California therefore it is not protected under California copy right laws!

Third: Even if it was from California i would be allowed to copy it as a means of "backing up" the product just like dvds i have purchased (ie if it gets smashed i can have a new one in 45 seconds)

Fourth: Say i did mass produce the body whose to say i didn't have a deal going with the rightful owner for he/her/them to get a cut of it

Fifth: I did not call Pete a scammer i said its a scam, Which can be used as a form of speech as in its a very good deal, chuck: "i bought a 06 fusion for $2,500" Bob: " No way to good to be true must be a scam"

Don't go making false accusations before you know the whole story


and its vacuum former "vacuform" is Mattels Copyrighted product


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## 1976Cordoba (Sep 20, 2000)




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## slotcarman12078 (Oct 3, 2008)

Quit hoggin the popcorn Doba!!!!


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

Film at 11:00............

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/33/44514845_572eb5d38a.jpg


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## TomH (Jan 17, 2006)

Cool thread, I would like to start a thread called "post your oval tracks" or "all things oval" to include all the cool cars, scenery etc. Problem is I don't have an oval YET!:lol


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## resinmonger (Mar 5, 2008)

You guys made me do this. I am not to blame.


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## TomH (Jan 17, 2006)

Oh man, this one is for you


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## HadaSlot (Oct 22, 2007)

1976Cordoba said:


>


I love that line. No mags equals=










Just trying to do a burn out without getting burned out.


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## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

Dunk21 said:


> thank you:thumbsup:
> 
> you have just proved my point,
> 
> ...


I know the whole story. And you're not twisting your way out of this one.

You listed a vacuformer on e-bay about a year ago that was non-functioning. The plate the plastic mounted to did not make contact with the vent plate. You were asking nearly $80 for this box and it did not sell. Now if you've have improved your design since then, fine, but the fact you were attempting to see a non-functioning home built vacuformer then still stands.

Point Two: Copyright laws are worldwide, not regional. It doesn't matter where the mold is from it would be protected under copyright law. That is the law, period. The body you were trying to sell copies of belongs to BSRT and Gary Beedle. I know this because I know Gary and know that body, have known it for more than 20 years. You were attempting to steal someone else's intellectual property, plain and simple, and you got called for it. You continue to try and cover your intent with childish allegations that we were not aware of your intent, when your intent was quite clear from the beginning.

You do not have the right under Copyright Law to make a copy of a mold or a DVD, again this is a violation of the law. Why don't you make copies of a new $100 bill then, same thing. You're making copies of a product you do not own, you did not create and did not buy the rights to. If you want to argue copyright law I'm sure I can have an attorney contact you at your old AOL address since I still have that and your IP address. I'm also sure that someone like Hank would be concerned that a member here is intent on advocating violating copyright laws.

Point Four: You WERE trying to sell them, you DID NOT have a deal with the rightful owner because I called Scale Auto and told them of your actions. And you're lying now, yes I said it here, trying to cover your actions. Many here that were around when all this went down I'm sure fell the exact way I do. 

You called my deal to sell you my vacuformer and my molds a scam, period. You can't sugar coat it any other way. I offered you my vacuformer and half a dozen molds for $250 I believe. That my friend was a very fair price yet you called it a scam. Compared to the non-working stuff you have tried to sell, and someone elses product you were intent on stealing I made you a heck of a deal. It is one I will never repeat. 

And the term Vacuform is a process, not a product. Mattel does not own this term accroding to the Public Relations person I spoke to a few minutes ago in El Segundo. The term you're thinking of is Vac-U-Form, which is their copyrighted product, once again according to Mattel PR. Once again you have no earthly idea what you are talking about. 

All of this reopens those old wounds Dunk, I'm taking chances on getting my account banned here but you are the same 12 year old that is trying to pull a fast one on folks here that you have always been, maybe a little older but it's still the same tired crap. I would be extremely suprised if anyone here actually takes you seriously but you tend to piss people off with your jibber jabber. I have no problem taking my business off this forum if guys like you are allowed to continue this line of BS.

You know what, on second thought I'm out. I'll take my posting somewhere else. It's ridicules for me to even try to explain this BS to this kid. I'm done, ya'll have a good one.


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## slotnewbie69 (Dec 3, 2008)

pete if ya see this,i hope ya come back!


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## Dunk21 (Mar 23, 2007)

try a "Niedert" sprint car


IF the vacuum former didn't work how were these made then???


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## Yoshi Nagura (Feb 9, 2008)

Dunk21 said:


> try a "Niedert" sprint car
> 
> 
> IF the vacuum former didn't work how were these made then???


You undoubtedly improved your designs after watching Pete's video you little jerk. I remember that box, it was a load of crap. And it was a Stanton Sprinter, still offered from Scale Auto that you tried to market as your own design. I just cannot understand your gall, knowing that others here would know you are lying about doing something like that. You need to be banned. Again. 

I'm done here. We need our own HO Racing forum where cruds like this aren't welcome.


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## 1976Cordoba (Sep 20, 2000)

Near top of page, in the orange bar:

My Settings
--Buddy / Ignore List
----Add Name
------Save List

No more issues.

:wave:


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## Dunk21 (Mar 23, 2007)

You undoubtedly improved your designs after watching Pete's video you little jerk




i dont vacuum form anymore i race sprint car











It was all the scam of somebody being afraid of competition if you ask me


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

Oh dear lord ....not again. 

Why cant you just play nice?

Dunk: While your spelling and diction has improved markedly; you should know better than to get involved when it comes to Pete. Apparently you learned nothing last time around. If ya never heard the phrase "Let sleepin' dogs lie" then I suggest you study it's meaning and apply it directly.

Pete: Why'd ya even go there? Dunk's initial post was hardly inflammatory. Your response however was somewhat backhanded. Regardless of your history with Dunk "YOU" could have easily chosen to play this differently; thus keeping it from escalating. Yer fiddy sumpthin' and he's what???? fourteen? Fer gawds sakes man you and I got roids and hangnails twice that old and three times smarter!!!

Yoshi: Coach has a sayin', "dont let the door hitcha where the good lord splitcha". We all gotta get along here. That INCLUDES being superficially tolerant of the retodds we have here... regardless of yer personal alliances. If you wanna go create yer own group then go create yer own group. The "I'm gonna take my marbles and go home" card only plays once here with any credibility. From the perspective of the uninvolved, fanning the fire aint a whole lot better than Pete and Dunk tossin' rocks at one another again.


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## dkreibich (Mar 11, 2009)

you vacuum formed a real sprint car? You might be on to something WATCH OUT FIVE STAR!


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## 1976Cordoba (Sep 20, 2000)

Looks like a mini-sprint. Or maybe a tricked out go-kart.


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## Dunk21 (Mar 23, 2007)

its a 270cc micro sprint in all i have $6,000 in it


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## gonegonzo (Jan 18, 2006)

Why don't we all re-group and get back to what the post was alll about to begin with. 

Going round and round on smaller bullring type ovals.

Modifying chassis to go at a realistic scale speed.

Reviving the underdog chassis and using them such as the HP 7's and Tomy Turbos. 

Converting diecast cars to competitive oval track racers.

Don't let one little squablle eat at you and ruin the hobby for you.

Respectably,
Gonzo:thumbsup:


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## TomH (Jan 17, 2006)

Ok, you got it gonegonzo. I will give it a shot. I have been thinking about doing something off the wall in building a scale quarter mile oval and I want to throw out my ideas here for whoever wants to comment pro or con. I was fooling around a couple of years ago building a H.O. track using masonite and copper tape. I built a routed track before this that ran 2 1/32's, 4 really tight 1/43's and 4 H.Os. They all worked off of two 12v small lawn mower batteries. The 1/32's and the H.O. worked great but the 1/43's were hard to handle because they were artin 6 volts and they flew..read that flew uncontrolable Ok..I decided to build a masonite H.O.dedicated track next.(I am an H.O. guy ok? can't help meself). I used an electric jig saw with a thick blade to cut the slot. Worked OK just a bit tight in spots that were easily sanded wider. The real pain was I had to glue strips underneath the masonite to keep my slot width right. Ya following me here? I taped a lane off, powered it up and tried a T-jet. It ran like stink until the guide pin hit one of the many cross braces underneath the masonite..in other words the material wasn't thick enough. I could cut the guide pins and they worked fine..kinda, I sprayed the track surface with cheapo spray can primer. Gave me a pretty hard surface compared to the track I built before using latex, so traction was a problem with the harder surface. So now here is my next project I am thinking about. I want to use the masonite again, but I want to glue plastic laminate, (formica) on top of the masonite for my bull ring surface. I am going with copper tape and I am going to paint the tape with a electrical conductive paint to hide the copper tape look. I can get a carbon color in the paint, looks like flat black. So I will get a flat black laminate color for the track surface so only the grove slot will be the only change in the flat surface. I intend to route a two or three lane 1/16 slot this time because it was a pain to glue all those strips underneath when I used a jig saw. Variable power supply will be used and I want to see if I can get an inline to do battle in addition to T-Jets and magnatractions. I have absolutely zero, nada experience with inlines, or anything else that isn't related with the Aurora products. I bought a couple of super international track sets and I have 8 super G's. I unwrapped a couple of them and ran them for a little while and they didn't do much for me. I like the simplicity of the inlines but not the performance. Ok I am done I think. Comments, suggestions, and ideas welcome. TomH


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## gonegonzo (Jan 18, 2006)

Hi Tom,

Good to be back on track here.

Your prject sounds interesting. What's the size of the tracks footprint ?

I'm wondering , why not use thicker Masonite ? this will eliminate using the cross brasing.

If your going to cover it with a laminate like formica etc., You could use plywood as an underlaymen t saving weight and being a little more firendly with your router bits.

I have raced on a homebuilt track that has Mig weling wire as conductor rails.

Wit either Masonite or laminant, you almost be gauranteed a silky smooth surface.

I've tried Super G+ cars on a 4x8 tracka dn they are way fast for that size of track. Somthing like a 4x12 would be more realistic.

I'm like you, I prefer the T-Jets and Magnatraction cars.

Gonzo


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## TomH (Jan 17, 2006)

Yeah I could use plywood. We couldn't use plywood when I was doing kitchen counter tops because the pattern/defects would show thru so I didn't think of that. I haven't been able to find thicker masonite, I used 1/4" but it didn't measure a full 1/4 as lumber sizes keep shrinking and prices keep going up. With the laminate on top of the masonite, I am hoping the groove will be deep enough. If it still isn't, I can go with plywood for sure. The track size is going to be aprox a scale quarter mile bullring. Depending on which scale you use 1/64, 1/72, 1/76 it falls in there pretty close. I have a 3'X7' footprint base already built I am going to use. I want to try the copper tape with the electrical conductive black paint for the look of asphalt. My routed track uses tape and I didn't have any problem with it. I had a wide slot so I could run the 1/32's. The H.O.'s worked O.K without any modifications, but the whole scene didn't look realistic enough. Right now the old routed track is underneath a plastic Tomy two lane I am tearing down. I am going to make a removable base insert to lay on top of the routed track for the oval to sit on. Timing system is going to be a problem child for sure. I haven't yet been able to get a timing system to work like it should. I don't know beans about it, but I was going to try a dead strip this time as a guess that it might be the best for non mag cars..not there yet for sure. Hoping next week to start gathering stuff.


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## gonegonzo (Jan 18, 2006)

Tom ,

Remove the cross members one at a time.

Before removing mark where the slot is and the guide pin is hitting.

Set you saw so that you can cut a relief groove in your cross member at the depth you nned plus another 1/16'' for clearence.

Replace them before removing another so as to keep everything in alignment.

Hope this helps.

Gonzo:thumbsup:


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## eastside johnny (May 13, 2008)

Spoken like a true craftsman. Must be a union carpenter!


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## TomH (Jan 17, 2006)

gonegonzo said:


> Tom ,
> 
> Remove the cross members one at a time.
> 
> ...


What I ended up doing was recycling quite a bit of it. I bought a couple of Tomy internationals, and I used most of the old masonite track as a base for the plastic track and made some great turn aprons, and I built an overpass with a bridge and had the backstretch elevated with the masonite also. Put in a double S with the 6"curves that really ended up being a big hassle. And I didn't like my elevation grades either...sooo I am putting the plastic up and experimenting with the plastic laminate bullring next. Bought a new camera for my sons photography class so he and I can take pics/movies of the build.


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## gonegonzo (Jan 18, 2006)

Looking forward to the pics.

Gonzo


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