# Old AMB 8800/System 20 questions



## Rcracer7 (Jan 29, 2003)

Hello

We have an OLD AMB 8800 and System 20 scoring system, and I'm finding it hard to find any information about it. First of all, this is the system that uses the internal ISA card to connect to the PC. Now, this works fine when
we use the DOS version of Autoscore, but we'd like to upgrade to the Windows version.

Is it even possible to use this relic in Windows 98?

If so, can Autoscore talk to the interface directly, or do I need to tweak the BIOS settings to look on the right interrupt/DMA channel to use this card? (I assume there's no Windows driver for something like this)

Finally, if all of the above are true, does anyone know what the DIP switches on the ISA board do? I imagine they select the IRQ and DMA to use, but who knows which is which!
Thanks for any help!


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## swtour (Oct 8, 2001)

The old 8800 based system is *NOT* compatible w/ the WINDOWS based programs.

I assume since you say you have the system 20, that you also have the 8800 w/ the AMB20 converter. 

This system DOES require the ISA card, unless you can find one of the old RS232 adapter boxes that eliminated the need for the card. Either way, it will not work with WINDOWS based programs, but if you had the other adapter you could at least use a older lap top that has a rs232 port and has DOS available.

 

To go to a WINDOWS based program - you need the actual AMB20 (RED) decoder box.


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## fredracer (Nov 21, 2001)

you could try laps free, In its program setup it has a box for AMB 20 serial.

www.rctiming.com/laps_free.shtml

They have the spec's there and it is free- we have been using it for 3 years+ now with no real problem


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## Rcracer7 (Jan 29, 2003)

Ahhh, I was afraid of that. Thanks for clearing that up.


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## Craig (Jan 1, 1970)

Have you called Autoscore and asked if they can help you with the settings and if the program will work? That's where I'd start asking questions.


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## BullFrog (Sep 24, 2002)

From what I remember there was an autoscore software package for that system. I was not in windows only DOS.If you want windows your going to have to go to the new AMB system.


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## Tres (May 10, 1999)

To make it work with windows based software, you have to have the DB-9 serial converter box.

It will not work with the ISA card.

We used that system for a long time.
and used TrackMate & Autoscore.....

I even have the C64 basic program instructions somewhere as well


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## swtour (Oct 8, 2001)

Tres,

I suggested someone get ahold of you a while back looking for one of the DB-9 converter boxes. I remembered getting an old card from you at one time...and didn't know if you had any lines on the old box.

Someone just sold a AMB20 system on here the other day - for $1000.00. As far as I'm concerned - that is still a great price if it was a complete system. Especially since MRT not only makes clone Personal Transponders, but also makes a CLONE AMB20 type transponder with ALL 10 numbers built into ONE transponder. That system still works great - and sometimes I regret spending the 3+ thousand dollars on the NEW system, to have a system w/ NO handout transponders. It limits holding small races in new markets w/ NEW drivers.


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## Rcracer7 (Jan 29, 2003)

I have not tried contacing AMB. It works fine in DOS, and that's fine for right now. Honestly I'm rather disgusted with AMB for providing absolutely NO support on their website for the older systems, not to mention the rediculous price they charge for these systems in the first place.


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## swtour (Oct 8, 2001)

AMB offers good support for their product for many years, the AMB8800 system has been out of production for over 10 years, probably closer to 15 years..heck a lot of companies don't even LAST that long.

They offered really good trade ins on the AMBrc system when it first came out, but that only lasted a short time.

The old systems are durable as heck - and properly taken care of will last a small club 20+ years, so if you depreciate the cost over that period of time...it's pretty cheap all and all.

Sadly, when I bought my AMBrc system I had 4 AMB8800 systems converted to use AMB20 transponders and over 50 transponders. I also have/had a AMB20 decoder that I bought to use the windows software - and never used it...before buying the AMBrc decoder. I sold the AMB20 decoder, charging rack and set of transponders to a local club...who (WAS STUPID) and had a NEW laptop that didn't have a rs232 port on the computer, and they adapted the decoded to the external MONITOR terminal..and FRIED something in the AMB20 decoder... (I returned the clubs money for my RUINED system) My only gripe w/ AMB was that they won't service the AMB20 decoder either...


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## Tres (May 10, 1999)

FYI:

AMB used a resistor as a fuse on most of there old units...
was only like a 2ohm 1/4w...


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## swtour (Oct 8, 2001)

Tres,

HA - I knew they used something for a fuse....never knew what - I'll have to check for that...I may be able to fix this amb20 decoder cheap.


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## IndyRC_Racer (Oct 11, 2004)

Just curious why anyone would need to upgrade to the Windows version unless it is easier to use.


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## swtour (Oct 8, 2001)

Indy,

You don't need to - but it does have some features that are a lot nicer, including a racer database, the ability to print on a regular printer (Instead of a DOS formatted tractor feed) Plus you get to use WINDOWS instead of having to reboot the computer into DOS (Which NEWER systems can't even do) 

I guess you could look at it..the same way a racer "NEEDS" a new style chassis. Wouldn't a regular old RC10Lss car still work today?

Answer, YES it would but chances are it wouldn't be as fast...or as COOL Looking.

(Funny thing that I use that analogy, because our LOCAL oval racing has 4 or 5 guys running either original 10Lss cars, or old 10L's with narrow rear pods and the front part of the chassis cut narrow. These guys picked up their cars on Ebay for less than $25.00 and are having a BLAST with them)


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## Rcracer7 (Jan 29, 2003)

No there, is no NEED to upgrade. I was simply curious. I do have a follow up question however. We hooked up our system, got it recognized by an old DOS machine (386, 40MHz, lol) and tried to run a race. However, all transponders, 1-10, randomly "check" every few seconds. Then when you press S to actually start the race Autoscore flashes "press any key to continue" and hard locks the PC. Now, the sensitivity knob on our AMB box has broken off, but providing we could turn it is this likely to be the problem? Another thing I noticed is that some places tell you to put a resistor in between the two legs of the loop. Any place I have ever raced has not done this, but is this a requirement for this older system? Thanks again for all your help!


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## swtour (Oct 8, 2001)

What I found with the old systems was when the transponders randomly 'HIT' it was usually a stray signal coming in from the wires in the transponder charging rack.

I always plugged my systems into seperate circuits (or off separate generators if racing outdoors) and this seemed to solve that problem.

I never really adjusted the sensitivity knob (I always cranked it up pretty much all the way, because some transponders may have weak/old batteries)

There is also NO DIFFERENCE in transponder colors w/ the old AMB20 transponders. A RED, BLUE, YELLOW or ORANGE all put out the same signal. Make sure to stagger the use of the units as much as possible to keep the most charge possible in the transponders throughout the day.

Another note on STRAY HITS or UNWANTED HITS - Make sure the MINIMUM LAP TIME is set to roughly 1-2 seconds less than the FASTEST lap that can be run on a particular track. Otherwise depending on where and how the loop is set up...guys could trick the loop on a pass back by the loop on a roadcourse type track in another lane.

LOOP WIRE - I've never used a resistor in the OLD or NEW style systems. I actually use 22-24 ga SPEAKER wire for most temporary tracks if taping it to the ground.

If I do a bridge - I use heavier wire - because I CAN (Bigger wire picks up better, but if you tape it to the surface...it makes a huge bump.)


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## Rcracer7 (Jan 29, 2003)

Wow, I never would have guessed it, but moving the transponder rack to the other side of the room did the trick.

But now we've discovered that most of the old transponders have dead batteries! Just wondering, has anyone ever connected an old System 20 style transponder to the battery in their car after its internal battery had gone dead? Obviously this only works for <= 10 cars, but I was curious if it was possible.


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## swtour (Oct 8, 2001)

I always wanted to take a transponder apart and wire it up like a personal transponder and see if it would work. I have one I tore apart, but never wired it up.

I don't remember what the voltage of the little nicad in the transponders voltage was..but I think plugging it into the receiver like a personal does - probably wouldn't be 'too much' voltage - but would it fry a receiver? Don't know.

I always wanted to try some of these - but I had already moved on to the newer system already.









Use as a 'personal' transponder fitted in car. 
Can be set to transponder number 1 thru to 10 
(10 No. settings: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9. & 0). 
T1-10 plugs directly into receiver 'Batt' socket. 
Transponder is reverse polarity protected. 
Power lead length: 14cm. 
Power lead is easy to replace if required. 
Fully waterproof (100% humidity). 
Input voltage: 3.5V to 12V. 
Operating temperature: -10C to +60C. 
Dimensions: 32 x 29.5 x 9.5 x 6.5 mm. 
Weight: approx 9 grams.​
The web site is - http://www.team-mrt.com/


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## kevinm (Jan 16, 2002)

It took some digging, but I found my manual for the old AMB system with the internal ISA card. Here's what the DIP switches do:

SW1 (farthest from the rear connector) sets the IRQ number.
1 - IRQ3 (top)
2 - IRQ4
3 - IRQ5
4 - IRQ6

SW2 sets the I/O address
1 - 190 (top)
2 - 180
3 - 100
4 - 1F0

The battery in the transponders is only a single cell (1.2V), so I wouldn't recommend connecting it directly to the car's ESC or receiver.


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## spyhunter50 (May 17, 2005)

need some help here... i have a amb 8800 system.. it wont work on any computer .. ? im not to smart on computer's lol...


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## swtour (Oct 8, 2001)

Do you have an old computer that runs on DOS, and does it have the AMB8800 system interface card installed?

This is a MUST have to operate that system, plus I believe you would need the proper scoring program. (the program can run w/o the scoring system, but the scoring system can't do anything w/o a program)


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## spyhunter50 (May 17, 2005)

swtour said:


> Do you have an old computer that runs on DOS, and does it have the AMB8800 system interface card installed?
> 
> This is a MUST have to operate that system, plus I believe you would need the proper scoring program. (the program can run w/o the scoring system, but the scoring system can't do anything w/o a program)



i have the scoring program... what do you mean AMB8800 system interface card installed? thank's for taking the time to help me...


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## Tres (May 10, 1999)

FYI: I have taken an AMBrc house transponder apart and connected them up with a Rx lead.....

They work fine....


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## kevinm (Jan 16, 2002)

Can you describe the system you've got and what your computer is? 

The old AMB 8800 system had 2 black boxes that connected together (I think they had a newer version with only 1 box), along with a card that went in the computer. A cable with a 25-pin male connector plugged into the PC card. If this sounds like what you've got, you'll need to use the AMB card. It's NOT a standard PC card, even though it looks like a parallel printer card with an extra audio jack on it. The PC card will only work on VERY old DOS machines. I think we got it to run on 286's, but it wouldn't work in a 386. If you're really lucky, you might have a 3rd black box (it cost more than $500) that converts the signals into RS-232, which can then go into any PC with a serial port.


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## swtour (Oct 8, 2001)

Don't pay any attention to the prices and such - this system was sold a long time ago...but in the picture is an old 8800 system with the AMB20 converter box (the small black box) Below right is the interface card, that you need to have in your computer.







 
As far as the old computer goes, I'd never heard anything about them not working on newer than 286 systems...mine was a 386, but I knew of several people who had 486's and above. You just needed an older version of windows that you could close and restart in 'DOS mode. (you could NOT run the program in a DOS shell) 

You need to set up the program to know where the interfact card is (I don't remember the address now, but I believe it IS the one the Autoscore program gives you as an example as long as you have the AMB version of the interface card) 

If your system is the old 8800 system - they are a PAIN in the AXX. That system used another box that needed to be hooked to 12 volts to excite the transponders, and the loop wire is like a HUGE FAT cable about 1.25" wide by .375" thick. (I just threw away the cable and box that hooks up to 12v. that I had laying around for 10+ years last week)


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## kevinm (Jan 16, 2002)

The 386 we tried to use couldn't find the card no matter what I/O address or IRQ we chose. It's possible that it just had too many other cards in it with address conflicts. And we were trying to use it on a race day when the other computer failed, so we really didn't spend much time trying to figure it out....


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