# O/T but related: More new Nascars?



## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

Let us hope the the Nascar License that Life-Like hold covers future models!

From autosport.com:

Toyota will race in the NASCAR Nextel Cup and Busch series from 2007.

Representatives of the Japanese manufacturer have confirmed that Toyota will become the first foreign car manufacturer to race in the sport's modern era. Toyota will base their car on the Camry model and become the fourth regular manufacturer in the sport, joining Chevrolet, Ford and Dodge.

The move has been widely expected for more than a year now, since it first became clear that they were likely to withdraw from the Indy Racing League.

Toyota put their toe in the NASCAR water in 2004, when they started competing in the Craftsman Truck series.

Further details on Toyota's plans for 2007 will be made available on Tuesday, with details of possible sponsor and driver-line ups being made public.


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

better picture:










read/hear all about it here - Can anybody lip-read???


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## ParkRNDL (Mar 20, 2002)

OK, that's just... weird. NASCAR lines and proportions and wheels and numbers and paint scheme... with big Toyota logos. Not saying it's a bad thing, just gonna take some getting used to...

--rick


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

ParkRNDL said:


> just gonna take some getting used to...
> 
> --rick


Amen to that!
But it should stir things up, for example which teams and drivers will they have?
I would imagine they will try to get DEI and/or Tony Stewart and/or Jeff G.


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## WesJY (Mar 4, 2004)

to be honest with you all.. i dont want it to happen.. i just prefer dodge, chevy and ford thats it.. i might stop watching nascar if toyota join in.. i think its bad thing for nascar. 

Wes


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## TK Solver (Mar 18, 2004)

More money poured into the sport should make it better for everyone involved. Theoretically, technological improvements should trickle down to us consumers as well. The truck series seems to be more competitive (interesting?) since Toyota joined in. Plus, this will give the thousands of highly paid American employees of Toyota some teams to cheer for.


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

WesJY said:


> to be honest with you all.. i dont want it to happen.. i just prefer dodge, chevy and ford thats it.. i might stop watching nascar if toyota join in.. i think its bad thing for nascar.
> 
> Wes


please expand on your thinking....


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## WesJY (Mar 4, 2004)

Montoya1 said:


> please expand on your thinking....


my way of thinking is very simple.. nascar has always been a "america stock racing" if toyota joins in and it will feel like a "international stock racing" (i know nascar will race in america but..) just like american football in america NFL and AFL (imagine it if NFL has few different country coming to america and play with NFL??) it wont feel like old america way.. you know.. i dont know if i am explaining it right. anyone understand what i am saying? 

Wes


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

I think Toyota deserves to be in because they have invested very heavily in manufacturing operations in North America. Same goes for Honda and Nissan. A lot of NASCAR fans are probably employed by Toyota, Honda, or Nissan or at least driving cars made by those companies. More likely we're all driving "American" cars heavily laden with parts from all parts of the globe. What the heck, Dodge is really a German owned company.

As far as the body goes, NASCAR is running funny cars anyhow. It doesn't matter what brand stickers are on the car, they are all the same body anyway. Plus, where are the other "American" brands in NASCAR? Why aren't there any Pontiacs, Mercurys, Cadillacs, Buicks, or Lincolns circulating the high banked ovals on Sunday? It's a 43 car field and I'd like to see something else in the mix other than Chevy, Dodge, and Ford. 

I think NASCAR can succeed by being inclusive rather than falling into the territorial disputes or limiting the cast of characters too much. Look what's happened to open wheel racing in North America. NASCAR has a good thing going and they seem to make the right moves at the right time.


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## WesJY (Mar 4, 2004)

******AFXTOO - "It's a 43 car field and I'd like to see something else in the mix other than Chevy, Dodge, and Ford"*******

Then my question is if nascar added toyota then it means less ford,chevy and dodge in the lineup and add like maybe 8 or 9 toyota to keep it balanced.. 

I have been to nascar races and i dont see how the "********" will accept a foreign car into races?? nascar has been around forever since moonshine era.. I dont mean any offense on "******** as in bad way" we all know diehard nascar fans are mostly from ******** that where they make money on everything. When toyota got in truck racing a year ago or two and i was watching the speedvision on tv saying about how hard they had selling on toyota merchanises and stuff. Correct me if i am wrong on this. Remember Jimmy Spencer was complaining about toyota coming in race and did he get fined for it? 

Wes


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

> Then my question is if nascar added toyota then it means less ford,chevy and dodge in the lineup and add like maybe 8 or 9 toyota to keep it balanced..


There's currently too many of the same brand car. I have no problem with fewer Dodges, Chevys, and Fords. I'd like to see some other brands like the ones I've mentioned. Why no Cadillac? They pump money in the more exotic forms of racing, why not good ol' NASCAR on their home turf?



> i dont see how the "********" will accept a foreign car into races


I wouldn't classify most NASCAR fans as ******** by any means. Even if NASCAR had a ******* majority it's a demographic inbalance that the current leadership in NASCAR intends to change by bringing more people from different parts of the motorsports fan base into the NASCAR fold. They want to increase market share and that means reaching out into other geographical and demographic areas. The ******* market is tapped out to max already.

The definition of "foreign car" goes well beyond the nameplate. The Toyota Camrys assembled in the US have about 80% American content while the Chrysler 300 (a wholly owned subsidiary of a German auto maker) is about 72%- and it's assembled in Canada. The Honda Ridgeline has more North American content (75%) than a Chevy Avalanche (61%). Which one is the American truck? The percentage of parts made outside of the US will only increase in the future as the Big 3 drive costs out of their operations and force US component suppliers to outsource more and more work. You ain't seen nothing yet, wait until China and India really start cranking out parts to put your Chevys and Fords together. About the only thing American associated with Big 3 cars of the future will be the payment book.



> Remember Jimmy Spencer was complaining about toyota coming in race and did he get fined for it?


He is definately an entertaining guy to watch and listen to in a certain "let's watch Jimmy bite off the hand that feeds him" sort of way. I suspect he has other tricks, like sticking his finger in a light socket and dodging oncoming trains while wearing a blindfold. Funny guy. I actually like his honesty and political uncorrectness. He definately appeals to fans who watch the races to see the wrecks, either out on the track or in the garage.


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

Toyota is a very savvy company, from what I understand the decision to enter the Winston Cup (as it was) was made in 1998. But, typically for them, the move was carried out with ruthless long term planning.

I'm sure 2007 was always the goal, and that the level of controversy the entry will make has been Micro-managed by them (with help from Nascar, another very savvy bunch) so as to benifit them in the medium to long term.

I fully expect them to have one of the really big names on board from the get go, I'm hoping it will be Jeff Gordon as he divides people's opinions in a way that will mirror the Toyota entry.

I don't think Toyota will dominate NASCAR, although they have the money to do so they are coming into a series that is not built that way - which I'm sure they are aware of. Just being in the cup will help them shift units, and that is the bottom line.

As for keeping the illusion that the series is all-American I think that is an outmoded & parochial viewpoint. The base car is American, the teams running the car will be American and I think the thrust behind it all is from Toyota USA, but if the series goes more international then all to the good I say.

Plus, and this was my initial point, it means more slotcars for us (I hope). I would imagine we can all race the car above sometime in the next 3 months...


dw


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## WesJY (Mar 4, 2004)

AFXTOO - okok you win  you made some good points that I didnt think of. I guess I am just old fashioned.. I just prefer old fashioned nascar stock racing that was more fun to watch in past then now. I really missed watching those cool superbirds back then. All cars looks same now. I can't imagine it what nascar will be in next 20 years??? probably dont need tires?? 

Wes


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

More pictures 

here 


dw


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

I have an ulterior motive. I'm really hoping NASCAR goes international. I've love to see Jimmy Spencer lay down a whoopin' on some of those prima donna F1 glamor boys. 

Even though I agree Toyota (and Honda and maybe even Nissan) deserve to get in I think they will have to prove they are worthy of winning. You can't buy victories in NASCAR through manufacturer backing. The playing field and set of rules is more level than in many forms of racing. To win they will have to compete as hard or harder than the established teams that have proven equipment, teams, and organizations.


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

so what odds Honda & Nissan will come in too?

I assume there are criteria in place to stop the likes of BMW and Volswagen coming in?


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

Turns out it will be six Camrys, including the Cat and Napa ones. This means, as things stand, less Chargers in 2007.

More pictures coming from Toyota.com on wednesday...


dw


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## noddaz (Aug 6, 1999)

Montoya1 said:


> so what odds Honda & Nissan will come in too?
> 
> I assume there are criteria in place to stop the likes of BMW and Volswagen coming in?


I can envision (?) Nissan getting involved with this. 
And the major reason is because Toyota is there.
But it would be a major undertaking for Nissan. Nissan would have to develope a push rod V8 engine (like Toyota did) to run in that type of racing. 
And it would be the only place that Nissan could use that type of engine.
That would mean lots of money up front to design an engine for Nascar type racing...
Honda, BMW and VW?
Just not their "style"... 
(Even if Honda has a "pickup truck"...)


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

the third team:


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## Franko (Mar 16, 2005)

Nissan won't jump in. Nissan doesn't race in F1 whereas Toyota and Honda both do. Me thinks Nissan won't be interested in NASCAR either. Also, Nissan is more financially strapped. Whereas there is nothing "stock" about NASCAR stock cars, stock car racing is huge in Canada and Mexico, and NASCAR is looking to grow beyond the "Good Ol' Boys" it'll happen and NASCAR will grow.


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

I seem to recall there are technical reason why someone like BMW would find it hard to enter? I guess engine related as the cars are virtually the same regardless of 'maufacturer'

But I can't see Honda staying away to long.



dw


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## Nightshade (Jan 15, 2006)

Ford, Chevy, Dodge? We must remember the Pontiac Grand Prix that was raced by Burton, Labonte and Stewart in 2004.

I understand that the Pontiac Solstice is stepping up for the 2006 season.


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

But Pontiac is just another GM or Daimler brand, right?


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## zanza (Sep 23, 2005)

Like AFXToo said, it could then lead to some internationalisation of NASCAR races.... And I'll definitely love to see if an Nascar driver could kick ass of, let say Michael Schumacher. It would be cool to see it

And if Toyota fails and don't win any races, then the "********" will have opportunity to consume more beers, shouting at the RiceLand losers :drunk: 

And I don't even talk about the percentage of japanese parts/produced cars in USA....You all know it far better than me, as living in USA.


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## WesJY (Mar 4, 2004)

Montoya1 said:


> But Pontiac is just another GM or Daimler brand, right?


pontiac is GM..

Wes


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## WesJY (Mar 4, 2004)

Montoya1 said:


> This means, as things stand, less Chargers in 2007.


this is what i am afraid of.. i am the biggest dodge fan.. i had to wait 25 years for dodge to come back and now toyota.. you get the picture. 

Wes


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

But I kinda guessed this might happen. The Waltrip deal was only for one year, and the team he left DEI for only had a one year deal with Dodge so with hindsight.

I assume the Red Bull team will have two indentically painted cars, which is very unusual or?

I also figure, with their money, that RB will be the Toyota team to try and land a superstar driver....


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## okracer (Mar 11, 2002)

as well as toyota has done in the truck series dont you count them out im thinkin they will do just fine racein thos souped up family cars lol


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

You can see pictures of all three teams at:

http://sema.autoblog.com/2006/01/25/red-bull-sponsors-nascar-toyota-team/


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

Wow, those don't even faintly resemble the real cars. There's usually a tidbit of something on the NASCARs that at least hints at the real one, even in a cartoonish sort of way like on the Chargers. But I guess when you are building a NASCAR based on a featureless car like the Camry there's nothing to work with.

I see NASCAR is starting to ramp up the press on the next generation platform. Looks interesting if a bit chunky. If they go with the wing version NASCARs will have a little "tuna" flavor to them. Save your F&F extras for some NASCAR repaints...


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## A/FX Nut (May 28, 2004)

Well here is my opinion.
It's no suprise to me that Toyota is joining the fight in Nextel Cup. I saw it coming when they started racing in the truck series. I think it's great for NASCAR. :thumbsup: It's all part of NASCAR's growth. 
NASCAR wants to loose the image of it's racing being represented by confederate flag waving ********. That was on an interview of Brian France, the CEO of NASCAR on 60 Minutes. 
I would like to see some other makes of cars get back in it also. To answer AFX TOO's question of , "Why no Pontiac, Mercury, or....?" Chevy and Ford doesn't want them in. It's their motors in those cars, and when Pontiac would win a race, there was no mention of the Chevy motor in that car.
As for other foreign manufactures joining Nextel Cup, I say "Bring'em on!" NASCAR needs the competition. 
I go to the August race in Michigan and where we camp at it's smack in the middle of a bunch of Canadians. Great people, :thumbsup: I wish they had a car manufacturer of their own to compete in NASCAR. 
AFX TOO is right about all the bodies being the same, ( I HATE COOKIE CUTTER AREODYNAMICS!) The only thing different is the motors. That's the only thing keeping NASCAR from being a second IROC series.
Anyway, I've said enough for now. The next 5 years in NASCAR will be interesting. Randy.


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## Nightshade (Jan 15, 2006)

I hear the Canadians actually *are* trying to get a car into NASCAR.....as soon as they can figure out how to attach the spoiler onto the Mounties' horse.

Well....I have season tickets to Talladega and Atlanta and I have no problem with Toyota coming in, but as soon as I see a Chineese Geely show up, I'm done!


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## DACSIGNS (Aug 18, 2004)

I dont really get why NASCAR gets beat up on for trying to level the competition with template bodies. Aint nobody havin problems with Top fuel Dragsters, Funny Cars, Sprint Cars and to me the various open wheel cars such as F-1 (all of those organizations have their own style) all look the same too, except for painted, vinyl wrap graphics or a combination of both. 
I have been a fan of NASCAR since 1966 in the days when the winner often had a 5 or more lap lead! I worked on a car that ran the World 600 in 1975 and we got 12th place, 27 laps down! Now tell me that racin was better then. In that particular race, 2nd place was only one lap down,(Richard Petty won) but nowadays it aint unusual for 25 cars to be on the lead lap with the winner barely getting it. Quality of competition is the single most important thing in spectator sports of this nature and there aint much consistantly close to what ya get with NASCAR. They are doin the right moves, and I welcome Toyota, and wish the Bill Davis teams and whoever else great luck.
At the closing races In the Craftsman truck seires in 2005, Todd Bodine was damn near unbeatable in his Tundra, but he drove his heart out to do it, So I say bring it on!
This is my honest opinion, fellow slotheads, and as Lynyrd Skynyrd said "Oh Lord I cant change!" in "Freebird", is how I am about racin', but I can grow with them, (NASCAR) and I will continue to do so.

Later---Circle Track DAC


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

Canada already has a car in NASCAR - the 2006 Dodge Charger. These are built in Brampton, Ontario. The Canuckmobiles are already here, ey?

Yeah, the template bodies in NASCAR are no different than the spec bodies in other forms of racing. But in other forms of racing the brand name focus is totally on the engines and not the entire car. To call the Dodge engined NASCAR a "Dodge Charger" or the same exact body with a Toyota engine a "Toyota Camry," etc., is like an inside joke that everyone has agreed not to laugh at. Wink wink. To add insult to injury the NASCAR engines are basically 1960s versions of engines you can't even buy in any form in a current model vehicle. Are the engine blocks even based on production engines? 

The old adage "win on Sunday and you'll sell cars on Monday" just can't be true any more unless buyers are easily deceived and gullible. But hey, maybe some of the flag wavers do take their blow up doll wives down to the Chevy dealer on Monday to get them one of them "Jeff Gordon Monte Carlos" that won that there race on the big roundy round the day before. Anything is possible, just keep the bicycle tire pump handy so the marriage stays intact. 

I'm not dinging NASCAR. The product has evolved and the racing has never been better. NASCAR has total and absolute control over their product, unlike in the 1960s when the manufacturers were having their way with the sport and the winners were up by 7 laps. The continued focus on speed and now safety has made it necessary for the cars to be where they are today and where they are going tomorrow. I'd be happier with cars going 140 mph if they had to look like the real deal and used current production based engines. But I'm a car geek, and NASCAR is totally about the racing events, the "Super Bowl every Sunday." The equipment is incidental, way way behind drivers and sponsors. NASCAR is what it is and it's obviously very popular and poised to move into the motorsports entertainment market on a global scale. They have become the Wal-Mart of motorsports.


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## vaBcHRog (Feb 19, 2003)

AfxToo said:


> You ain't seen nothing yet, wait until China and India really start cranking out parts to put your Chevys and Fords together.


 
Here is somethin to ponder SlotHeads. What if China and India start making cars and one day have their own cars running in NASCAR. Now what would be cool would be when most of the world is competing and watching NASCAR and most of the world is racing their own NASCAR slot cars at home Just think about all the different slot cars that would be made.

Roger Corrie


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

Wow Roger, that's another very interesting point to consider. If China, India, and other highly populated but lesser mechanized parts of the world do move towards automobile production and consumption on the scale of Europe and North America, we may see a wide scale rebirth of slot car popularity as motorsports catch on with the global audience. We could see the second coming of a slot car company on the scale of Aurora (or bigger!) to service the needs of the Chinese and Indian slot car markets and we'll get to tap it too. And since most cars in North America will be made from Chinese and Indian parts anyway, we'll all feel like we're part of the same automotive market. 

If you ever want to see how highly distributed global production can come together successfully do some research into the current Mini Cooper.


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## Slott V (Feb 3, 2005)

A lot of controversy over this all over the web. Look at these facts: Japanese auto sales account for 1/3 of auto sales in the US. NASCAR is a money making empire. I'm sure Toyota sees massive advertising dollars with NASCAR. Honda and and Nissan both saw huge profits last year also.

Funny thing is though, the first letter of NASCAR stands for "National"... 

Just wait until that Camry rocks in the aero dept and all the other teams want a rules changes to modify their noses. And that's just the beginning...

Oh, and BTW for those talking about how NASCAR stock cars don't represent real cars:

NASCAR = 

*N*o
*A*ctual
*S*tock
*C*ars
*A*re
*R*acing

:tongue: :wave:


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## car guy (Nov 22, 2003)

Well, there goes the "Winston Cup", soon it'll be called the "Tin Cup".


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## lenny (Feb 29, 2000)

car guy said:


> Well, there goes the "Winston Cup", soon it'll be called the "Tin Cup".


 The season will culminate with a championship race which will be called the 'Sushi Bowl'...


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## Manning (Mar 2, 2004)

If you want to see a race where the cars are actually based on production cars, watch the Speed Channel "World Challenge" series....Real cars are used. Or nearly any of the SCCA classes.

There are LOTS of race series that are based on production cars, they just don't get any coverage. A pity that..

Guys at work always bring up the fact that NASCAR cars aren't stock. And then they say that the other series' are boring to watch. Can't please 'em. 

Racing will always evolve into something far different than what it started out as for a number of reasons. It's inevitable.


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