# How Long Can We Exist ????? Or , Can We ?????



## gonegonzo (Jan 18, 2006)

I've often wondered : If the bottom fell out and there wasn't any manufactures willing to come foward with their products, Could We Still Exhist thru our hobbiests cottage industries ????????????????????????????

I don't think we realize how fragile our hobby is.

Gonzo


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## eastside johnny (May 13, 2008)

First we must decide HOW we define "exist" ....I've got enough stuff stuffed into the basement for my grandkids to keep on playing at some level for a very long time. (it's NOT a very big basement either!) Intense racing may have to give way to more casual competition to non-racing motoring. I guess that HOW we exist would depend on HOW we want to play. . . . . . . .
BUT, I agree that "our hobby" does exist in a fragile state in many ways. How many of the "Club groups" racing around the country are kept going by one or two lead guys & would quickly fade away without those "spark plugs". . . . or if/when the only hobby shop in the area closes down after the owner either goes broke or retires?. . . . I think that a LOT of us have seen this in the larger scales where racing is dependent on the large track at the store. If the store closes & there is no place close by to race, the race box either gets put away in the corner or sold. . . .(which is why I started into H.O. back in the 60's! Didn't have to rely on or go to the shop. Just went into the basement)
More fragile may be the demographics of just WHO is involved in this hobby beyond a casual "Christmas toy" To some extent we are a "graying bunch"!! with a smaller percentage of younger new blood coming in to the hobby than years ago.


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

I have every car I ever bought, starting in 1969, and they are still running. Right now I have over 100 cars that I use as runners. Not only don't I need any more runners, I probably have more than I can keep properly tuned as it is. I have a case with at least 70 more used cars I bring to the shows.

I have thousands of cars and parts to last a few lifetimes. If track became unobtainable, we could all learn to rout our own. If the manufacturers fell off the world tomorrow, I'd have enough cars and parts to last until the federal deficit is erased (which is basically until infinity).

If it weren't for the fact that I collect, I would probably not buy another slot car. This is why I think it is very important for any manufacturer to keep in mind that future sales may well depend upon how many collectors are out there for their product. If they think they are going to exist based on a growing customer base, they are either delusional or will need to do a lot better job in marketing.

When Auto World screwed around early on with their random packaging and "chase" cars, they tuned off a number of collectors, myself included. Therefore I stopped buying Auto World cars; I was buying at least two of each until then. After a while, I'll bet a lot of guys bought just about as many AW cars as they will ever need. There may be the occasional purchase here or there, but I'm sure AW can't count on collectors (any more) buying at least two of every car in every release. Without the demand by collectors, just how much longer will/can they go on?

My point being, just how long can anyone go on selling cars to the same small group, especially if you tick off the guys who buy your stuff even if it's ugly?

So, to answer your question, I can go on forever reguardless of the state of the manufacturers. Could racers go on forever? I assume they go through parts fairly quickly, so they would require some kind of parts supply chain. But for the rest of us, I think we'd survive. We may just get a little bored without something new to oogle over.

But then again, at least I won't be frustrated trying to chase down any more Lifelike variations!

Joe


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## bobhch (Apr 22, 2007)

*I will survive...*

Gonzo

I would be fine. Lots of bodies and lots of chassis here also. I can always switch bodies around if needed. Not realy worried about running out of slot car stuff as I am about having enough paint to Phsssssssssssssssht. When I get low on a color I re-stock right away.

Bob...I have TONS of paint...zilla

P.S. Gonzo this is funny because, I gave my friend at work (he's a great guy) the nick-name Gonzo about 18 years ago. You can never have enough Gonzos...lol


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

Easy answer...

The hobby will exist as long as there is a demand for it. 

However, "the hobby" does not have a universal meaning. It means different things to different people. We all engage in this hobby at different levels. Some of us are aligned around the racing side of things, others of us around the collecting, and still others of us around the modeling craft side of the hobby. Take a look at the different forums in our HobbyTalk community and you'll see diversity and incredible dedication to many different aspects of the hobby, and at so many levels. Bob's and Joe's responses strike but two of the many unique and different chords in the collective symphony that makes up the hobby.

Over time there have been radical changes in the hobby that have influenced its shape. The demise of one of the founding fathers of the HO side of the hobby, Aurora, was a huge change. But the demand was still there and the essence of Aurora lives on today through Tomy, Model Motoring, AutoWorld, and the Fray in Ferndale, just to name a few. Many others have fallen, or fallen off their game, but where there was demand, there was a replacement and the continuity was sustained. As Eastside Johnny pointed out, the HO side of the hobby can exist at almost any level, can take place almost anywhere, and can pack up and be moved to where the demand pulls it. 

I see no end in sight for our hobby as long as we continue to support it and demand new products. The relatively low cost of entry into the manufacturing side of the equation no longer requires a company the likes of Mattel, Tomy, or Life-Like to pull it off. Small one guy, one gal, and family sized businesses can pull it off. Entrepreneurs like Wizzard High Performance, BSRT, Model Motoring, Slottech, Dash Motorsports, AutoWorld, JW Speed Parts, Moonstone, BRP, RTHO, Zoomin, etc., ... just to name a few of the many one or few person operations can sustain major parts of our hobby as long as the demand for their products persists. That kind of investment, big or small, is what keeps the hobby alive and growing. 

In the words of one of the famous philosophers and reflectors of social conscience of the past century: _"That he not busy being born. Is busy dying." _... so as long as we continue to have an influx of new ideas, new products, and new avenues of interaction spurred by collective demand, the hobby will be reborn in one or more of the different aspects and at one or more of its different levels. A transition into the dying phase of its life cycle should not happen any time soon. I believe we are still on the upslope and have some time to go before the eventual long, slow fade into nostalgic obscurity. Again, as Eastside Johnny pointed out, all it takes are a few spark plugs to keep things going. You too can be one of those spark plugs or accelerents that gets things going within your sphere of influence.


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## brownie374 (Nov 21, 2007)

thats why I quit racing 1/24 the raceways kept closing.I now have my own raceway that nobody can close.


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## gonegonzo (Jan 18, 2006)

This post is proving quite interesting.

Nice to hear from you John. I'll be back after the warm weather. Oh , I migh add , it's hobbiests like you John that do make this hobby exist. I've seen that small basement and I give you "guru" status as far as slot cars go.

Gonzo


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## roadrner (Jul 21, 1999)

Have enough stuff to keep me going for awhile. Plus I keep adding to it everytime someone from the board comes out with a new body or two. I'll just have to keep tabs keeping my spray paint inventory up to speed. Seems that my local Autoparts store is scaling down their Duplicolor selections. 

:thumbsup: rr


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## demether (Aug 26, 2008)

And don't forget most of motors are used not only for slot racing, so we 'll can find them anytime. Or we could go to cell phone micro motors too, decreasing voltage, etc, etc...

IN one word, if products disapears, we 'll build our own


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## ParkRNDL (Mar 20, 2002)

i just cleaned out/organized the basement (don't worry, I kept all the slot car stuff) and I can say that I won't run out of stuff to play with for many years. I have several hundred cars and I frightened myself with just how much Tyco track I have. So, me personally, I'll be doing this for a while.

But your point is valid, Gonzo... part of the fun of the hobby is seeing what others do. And some parts (I'm thinking tires here) require a constant supply. I don't know what I'd do without guys like Weird Jack...

(On a side note, am I the only one who has amassed a RIDICULOUS collection of worthless Tyco loop tracks and similar junk? Now that stuff DID get pitched, as well as broken 9" curve pieces...)

--rick


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

I think the vast resource of child labor in Communist China will keep us well supplied for years to come.


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## clodman765 (Dec 4, 2008)

We, as slot car enthusiasts, need to do more ouselves to promote slot cars and better support those few retail outlet stores that make an effort to support us. If there is to be a show or racing event or even a group of guys that get together informally as "slot car guys", get the word out. Do whatever you can to promote. All types of hobbies continually lose people. Lives change, situations change. We will always need new blood to keep us going. Without new blood, manufacturers will drop out, they'll have no choice.
Another thing we all do, out of pride, is brag about our latest creation--how much it cost, how much work it was, how much trouble it was to find that certain "part", how much time it took, and on and on. Boy, a "newbie" is going to jump at the chance to get into this sport! Try instead, to be supportive and helpful about how to get started easily, and without spending a huge amount of money and time.


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

Wanna make this "sport" grow? I mean REALLY grow?

If there was a way to fashion slot car tournaments after the incredibly popular poker tournaments, manufacturers would not be able to keep up. All the serious cash that we see ourselves putting into this hobby, what would be so bad about earning some back? What if you could actually earn a living racing slot cars? Don't tell me you're not drooling at the thought of it. This is only one board, the best board, but still only one board. We are just a fraction of the slot car community. Maybe in Vegas, Atlantic City, Shreveport, or the indians in Oklahoma could start a slot car tournament. Is it gambling? What IS racing? Could it survive with or without spectators? Listen, if a bunch of goofy sunshaded dweebs can get so popular playing cards that they have their own channel, and take up half of ESPNs time - WHY NOT SLOT CARS? Don't tell me their isn't enough money in it. We both know different. Money attracts people, all kinds. If a local dirt track can race and give money, why not a slot car track? Where is the line? Why is that taboo for some? For me, I don't see anything wrong with it. If you can sit in a cubical and punch keys all day or turn a wrench and get paid by the hour, why not pulling a slot car trigger. This is America, land of opportunity, land of dreams. My dream is slot car tournaments all over the country, for big money. Anything is possible. We can do it. PM me or email me about it.

Rich
www.myspace.com/northtexasslotcars


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

The slot car hobby is a participatory undertaking mostly done for personal satisfaction and distraction from reality. Whether it's collecting, modeling, or racing, the *participants* are pretty much the beginning and the end of the population of people who are interested in forming a relationship with the hobby. Unless you bring bring in gambling, nobody is going to pay to watch a slot car race, much less, pay to watch some dude shaving the posts on a JL to get it to sit lower on a chassis. While televised poker tournaments, much like bowling, billiards, and curling seemingly push beyond the edge of the envelope for how lard filled couch spuds can entertain themselves with single digit brain cell involvement, each of these "sports" actually offer more for *spectators* than does any slot car activity. 

The caveat of course is gambling. People will gamble on virtually anything, from spider molting to cow turds, so that angle is always in play.

The surest way to reduce participation in a sport or hobby is to "professionalize" it and turn it into a spectator sport. We already have grown men playing childrens games for a living while our children are mainlining Cheetos and developing diabetes before their Sweet 16 birthday parties because they spend eight hours a day ingesting suger and fat in front of a TV or video game - passively spectating. It used to be that when people said they were "into sports" meant they played sports like baseball, football, hockey, soccer, tennis, etc. Now it means they have the premium ESPN or NFL package on their cable or satellite TV plan. Professionalize it, layer on a bunch or rules, broadcast it for spectators, and bring money into the mix is a sure way to kill it from a participation perspective. We don't need another spectator sport. 

The China angle has some some merit, but not from a producer standpoint. While China is now a huge producer of products, as a quick trip to Wal-Mart will surely attest, they are quickly becoming a consumer driven society. China is developing a craving for automobiles. As their discretionary spending and idle time increases there is a possibility that hobbies like slot car racing and collecting may find a place in their lives. This seems like a more likely scenario to me. Perhaps those of us outside of developing countries will experience some collateral benefits from growing motorsports interests in those developing countries. By then we'll be wallowing in a stupor of Reality TV shows, where we watch other people watching sports broadcasts on their TVs, all the while we have a 50/50 mix of Budweiser and High Fructose Corn Syrup delivered by IV directly into an artery as our XXXL sized adult diapers slowly fill with our own uncontrollable bio waste. 

Just my 2 cents worth.


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## smalltime (Jun 3, 2006)

gonegonzo said:


> I've often wondered : If the bottom fell out and there wasn't any manufactures willing to come foward with their products, Could We Still Exhist thru our hobbiests cottage industries ????????????????????????????
> 
> I don't think we realize how fragile our hobby is.
> 
> Gonzo


Cottage is all we have now dude. There are no "big" manufacturers now. Auto world is just a store front, Tomy is Gary Beadle, Wizzard is Bob & RC Lincon. 
The only thing that gets close to Big Box reatilers is Life-Like, and all they make are toy sucker cars that are too fast to see.

Bottom line is:
Support your local/cottage shop. They are keeping us alive with parts. Also, keep racing with a group, They get the word out for the retailers, and they in turn, keep us supplied with the best/latest stuff.


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

Tomy (US) is Steve Russell and co.


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## eastside johnny (May 13, 2008)

Well Gonzo, this thread has gotten more interesting the farther it goes!.....Nice of you to dub me with "Guru" status but that sounds like something to have to live up to.....how about just plain "Old phart" status.
The idea of making a living, or just plain making some money back sounds good but, having been around for a while & spending time running some high end stuff I've witnessed some of the ugly side of the racing hobby too. YEARS ago when the big three cottage guys were working at making a living & trying to outdo each other I sat back & watched as a great local group of top notch racers some with "factory backing" from those three got to the point of not even wanting the "competition" to peek into their race box. There were even some moments that nearly developed into "let's go outside & settle this"....the fun & friendship didn't seem to matter, and this was racing for very little money in return. Also when any new guys came in, they dropped a whole lot of money into their equipment, which is OK, but they expected immediate results and when that didn't happen (since they were competing against some top level racers) they were gone as quick as they came. That's when I decided to keep things basic and simple for my group. We are still having fun and will continue to. 
This is not meant to knock that level of racing. The challenge of building & running very fast cars can be & is a rewarding experience. I just happen to like it a bit more relaxed because it is a hobby.


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## smalltime (Jun 3, 2006)

Montoya1 said:


> Tomy (US) is Steve Russell and co.


Sorry there Monty......
Steve must be the BIG BOX retailer I missed. Do you have his development division contact info, so we can all send them an e-mail regarding what we want?

Like I said: All we have are cottage(I.E. Small buisness) guys now. Support them,give them feedback, go to the races they sponser and thank them for the effort they put in. Believe me, They're not making ANY money at this.

OK now parse that statment for a nubin of anything you can find to dissagree with.
Common........There's got to be somethin':wave:


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

Wow, I would like to hear more about that Johnny. A builders class, you don't think anyone would cheat do you? OF COURSE. Things got heated enough years ago when we just ran for points and door prizes. Do slot cars bring out the kid in everyone? There's nothing cool about seeing a 40 yr old throw a 2 yr old fit. As you pointed out, there is a very ugly side to it. The pros tend to run off the beginners. Got to keep em separated. I really like the IROC thing, especially when people start whining about cheating. There is something humbling about someone taking a car you just ran 40 laps with, and they run 45 laps on the same lane. You just gotta bite your tongue and take it on the chin. When things get really competitive, IROC seems to hush alot of complaints. A builders class is a whole different thing. You can 'say' box stock, but I've never seen anyone win running a 'box stock' car. There always seems to be some modification. The rule book has to be strict as NASCAR for a box stock class to work. So, to me, if it ain't an IROC class, it's a builders class. I've never run it, but I know FRAY has been running for some years now, and I heard of a group on the east coast doing their own version of it. Then there is the mid-west guys and Florida. All these guys seem to have a good thing going on, something that could be elevated to the next level. Here in Texas, well, you know the ghost town with the tumbleweeds rollin? You got the picture, not much of anything going on here. We have some guys that are gearing up to run at FRAY. Good luck guys. And then there are my five or six guys that like running box stock for fun. Its been fun, but I'm ready to bump it up a notch. I'm looking for a full time sponsor to fly me around the country and even the world to compete in tournaments worth hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Let's race!!


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

smalltime said:


> Sorry there Monty......
> Steve must be the BIG BOX retailer I missed. Do you have his development division contact info, so we can all send them an e-mail regarding what we want?


I don't know what thats about, I was just correcting your mistake. Gary Beedle is Scale Auto/BSRT, not Tomy.

For what it is worth Steve is contactable, is a good listener, and comes on here now and again (but more so on SCI).


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## smalltime (Jun 3, 2006)

Montoya1 said:


> I don't know what thats about, I was just correcting your mistake. Gary Beedle is Scale Auto/BSRT, not Tomy.
> 
> For what it is worth Steve is contactable, is a good listener, and comes on here now and again (but more so on SCI).


Well Monty,
I know you are the mistake corrector for the board so I knew you would chime in. But you failed to read the rest of my post so...........:wave:


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

I read all the post, and the one that followed. You made an error of fact, which I corrected. There is no more and no less to what happened.

The other stuff you are talking about, I don't follow so please explain? Your point you made in the thread I broadly agree with, so the hostility / sarcasm is weird. Clearly you feel errors of fact should not be corrected?


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)




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## gonegonzo (Jan 18, 2006)

Ya know, we all have good points here pro and con. I agree that professional slot racing wouldn't promote the hobby but would create a flash in the pan novelty for a few who know someone - somehow - somewhere. In the end , the hobby racer will have seen a quick demise of the hobby.

As to promote the hobby I seen an excellent idea float around on Hobby Talk. That idea was for us , the racing hobbiests to organize a National Slot Car Racing Week. Durring that post there was several points brought out and scrutanized by just a couple ( maybe even one ) that put a damper on the whole idea. Those that posted the original post and those that were interested in promoting this venture was quickly discouraged becasue of the politics brought out in that post. I race all scales and have found that it's "mostly"the HO guys that keep politics alive in the hobby. 

I still think that the NSCRW would be a good venture for the betterment of our hobby in all scales. I also think that within this HT BB it could be concieved. I consider this the best BB for our hobby online hands down.

Think of this : A week put aside each year for all slotcar enthusiasts to promote the hobby. Maybe make it the week of Speed Week which spurs the Daytona 500 each year. That would make all of us continders for Speed Week racing.

The race shops , racers and of course racing clubs could organize ( IROC class racing ) open to the public. You'd be suprised as to the people that doesn't know what a slotcar is.

These races would be advertised open for the public and held at commercial raceways, YMCA's , hobby shops, city public pavillions, local automobile dealeship showrooms, etc, etc . 

Yes it would take some work and organization but it's a hobby right ? We all work on our hobby so let's direct some of that work toward this aaaaaaahhhhhhh, let's call it a movement or alliance. 

It would be impossible to sit here and organize this thing all in one day. There are a lot of issues to go over. Many will be ones that if this thing ever got off the ground, would have to be changed and modified until the right combination was found year after year. Bottom line is the first one will not be fool proof but will get the message that this hobby is out there for those who enjoy good clean fun.

Issues that pop up of the cuff would be :

1 Clubs to build or use already built portable tracks for the events in their locallity.

2 A group of builders to build a fleet of IROC cars to compete. Not high zoot cars but simple , problem proff racers. These could be donated by slot car dealers etc that would benefit by the hobbies growth.

3 Public relations people. Those that would advertise and be the rep for the local movement.

4 This would be directed to all scales. 

I could go on and on but at this point there isn't a reason to. If ya'll or even a reasonable " DEDICATED" number of you would be interested in this venture, why not start a new post on this subject and keep it alive. If any horn tooters get in the way, please, just work around them and they will go away.

This would be the perfect time to build on this thing so as it could be born this comming Speed Week or whatever week that is settled on. This has been on my mind before the original post . That post was cut short and the whole idea was aborted before given a chance. It was posted maybe a year ago, I'm sure most will remember.

Do you have time for your hobby ? Hop on and let your feelings on this be known. Maybe in three or four years we might see a big difference in the hobby both locally and nationally.

Sorry to go off but it seemed like the perfect time.

Gonzo


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

Lots of great ideas there Gonzo. Speedweeks is a good time to key off of. Football is over, national awareness for racing is up, it's still cold here in the south, so softball season isn't eating up everyones time. It's far enough away that we all could feasibly plan something locally by then. With HO, all you would need is an 8 ft table set up, and maybe a LT2k setup for effects. But honestly, in public I've never seen an HO setup really draw a crowd unless they were those super fast Wizzard cars or something like that. 32nd scale seems to be the ideal setup to draw people into our hobby. I guess it just depends on the situation, and the track.

I would start a new thread with your quote about this idea. It seems perfectly worded.

Rich


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## eastside johnny (May 13, 2008)

*speedweek*

Gonzo, The National Speedweek idea is a great one.......never did see your original post. 
Back in the mid 80's we did an Ohio H.O. Speedweek with Super Stock cars & ran six races on six very different tracks in eight days. Nothing like what you are proposing but I guess that what I getting at is that it only happened ONCE because we were lucky enough that year to have enough people dedicated to spending a full week in February just to slot car racing. That may be one of the biggest hurdles to overcome. 
I'm all for it though & will do what I can if this gets off the ground. I have four door slab tracks, a banked oval, a flat oval & the Monster Truck stadium which are ready to go and an off Road course that just needs a little work to be race ready. Stay in touch.


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

This thread started off with a question about the future of the hobby in a general sense, not just the future of slot car racing, which is only a part of the overall mix that makes up the hobby. I think that anyone who's been involved with the racing aspects of the hobby will undoubtedly have some strong opinions about what works and what doesn't work. I have some very strong feelings about the racing side of the hobby, but I'm also interested in hearing from the collectors and modelers. 

As to the racing side of things... well, like most things in life, it always comes down to people. 

This is where it begins:

*The success or failure of your racing group completely depends on the people in your group, their personal integrity, their loyalty to the group, and their loyalty to their fellow racers above all other self interests and external influences.* 

And that is where it ends, too.


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## DesertSlot (May 8, 2009)

NTxSlotCars said:


>


ROFLMAO


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## DesertSlot (May 8, 2009)

As a minor collector (70+ so far), I'd like to see more street cars from the early sixties right on up through the present. I just got done ordering enough bodies to change my eleven F1's into 60-70's musclecars. We need more Fords and GMs to compliment the great assortment of Mopars (from AW) out there. Dash has some nice Chevelles and 442's but they are all T-Jets. I think the younger set might be attracted to late model cars they can identify with. Put SRT and SG+ chassis under them. The new Camaro coming out is a good start.


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## kiwidave (Jul 20, 2009)

Got a pic of the new Camaro please!


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## gonegonzo (Jan 18, 2006)

To let this post run it's course , I'm posting a new post dealing with the proposed NSCRW.

Thx to those who support it .

I'm more race oriented than modeling . However , I admire and appreciate the talents and efforts of those who model these cars too.

I also see more modeling being done in HO scale than any others with the exception of 1/24th scale drag racing. Of course there's the occassional bigger scale modeler out there.

Gonzo


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## DesertSlot (May 8, 2009)

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=259659 

They are for pre-sale here.


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## kiwidave (Jul 20, 2009)

Cheers Dave!!


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## mtyoder (Jan 3, 2004)

you know, i think this is something we all think about. The last few shows n races i've heen to i can't help but notice how few kids there are. we are an indangered species already.


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## eastside johnny (May 13, 2008)

AfxToo said:


> This thread started off with a question about the future of the hobby in a general sense, not just the future of slot car racing, which is only a part of the overall mix that makes up the hobby. I think that anyone who's been involved with the racing aspects of the hobby will undoubtedly have some strong opinions about what works and what doesn't work. I have some very strong feelings about the racing side of the hobby, but I'm also interested in hearing from the collectors and modelers.
> 
> As to the racing side of things... well, like most things in life, it always comes down to people.
> 
> ...


Very well stated!. . . .
As far as the modeling aspect, It would be great to show off the slot car modeling with "Car Shows" along with the tracks. When I was a kid the hobby stores always had model car contests in the summer. You could enter any model if it was bought at the store. They would be on display in the store window or display cases as kids brought them in & of course we made trips to the store every day or two to see what was new up till the deadline and then of course also to see who won what. It wouldn't be to hard to display customs along with the activity on the tracks. You just need a secure place to show them. This also could include dioramas, etc.

Now to promote the collecting aspect.......?


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