# Using Metal Tracks fo the Chariot



## kdaracal (Jan 24, 2009)

I posted a similar question on the Military forum:

I found a product on the net (Friulmodel brand) metal aftermarket tracks sold from Hungary, that look really cool. I'm thinking about using them in place of the supplied tracks for extra detail. Any thought, ideas, or comments would be really helpful! People in the know, please leave your thoughts...........

Here's a link to their website store:

http://www.friulmodel.hu/index.php?catid=3&sort=0

The Chariot says it is 1/2*4* scale. They only sell one kind in 1/2*5* scale. It doesn't look like the right tracks at all. But many 1/35 scale tracks look great.


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## skinnyonce (Dec 17, 2009)

kdaracal

I pm'd you


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## kdaracal (Jan 24, 2009)

skinnyonce said:


> kdaracal
> 
> I pm'd you


I replied.


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## kdaracal (Jan 24, 2009)

I wonder if those folks at Friulmodel speak English. They have a phone number posted. Perhaps a call is in order....


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## xsavoie (Jun 29, 1999)

Of course someone wonders if they would also fit the Chariot.As far as the track shape is concerned,beggars can't be choosers.Maybe they would be interested in making the Lost In Space Chariot tracks.Just slip them a note,it can't hurt.If they think a profit can be made,they might just go for it.I wonder what the price would be for a set of Chariot tracks though.


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## kdaracal (Jan 24, 2009)

xsavoie said:


> Of course someone wonders if they would also fit the Chariot.As far as the track shape is concerned,beggars can't be choosers.Maybe they would be interested in making the Lost In Space Chariot tracks.Just slip them a note,it can't hurt.If they think a profit can be made,they might just go for it.I wonder what the price would be for a set of Chariot tracks though.


They have so many kinds and styles. Its hard to believe they don't have one that would work. They run 27-30 lbs (American dollars unknown) for 240 links and attachment wire. Hmmmmm??? I just need to do more research.


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## g_xii (Mar 20, 2002)

kdaracal said:


> I posted a similar question on the Military forum:
> 
> I found a product on the net (Friulmodel brand) metal aftermarket tracks sold from Hungary, that look really cool. I'm thinking about using them in place of the supplied tracks for extra detail. Any thought, ideas, or comments would be really helpful! People in the know, please leave your thoughts...........
> 
> ...


I'd say mail 'em a chariot track from your kit, then they could likely match it up with something they already sell/manufacture. I'm sure Frank would sell you a replacement if they don't return your track... The potential benefits far outweigh the risk!

--Henry


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## kdaracal (Jan 24, 2009)

g_xii said:


> I'd say mail 'em a chariot track from your kit, then they could likely match it up with something they already sell/manufacture. I'm sure Frank would sell you a replacement if they don't return your track... The potential benefits far outweigh the risk!
> 
> --Henry


Thanks, Henry! 
Maybe even a good photo with a metric ruler beside it would do the trick. They seem to always display individual links for detail and a side view drawing showing elevation, as well. These must be important to the tank builder guys....

I posted this to the Military forum. I thought they would know for sure. No bites yet.


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## g_xii (Mar 20, 2002)

kdaracal said:


> Thanks, Henry!
> Maybe even a good photo with a metric ruler beside it would do the trick. They seem to always display individual links for detail and a side view drawing showing elevation, as well. These must be important to the tank builder guys....
> 
> I posted this to the Military forum. I thought they would know for sure. No bites yet.


Nahhhhhh.... just send them a track with a note you neeed 2 replacements and your email address. You send them a pic with a ruler in it, it's just as likely to be ignored! BE BRAVE! Besides ... I even wrote the letter for you! (see professional attachment) 

--H


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## teslabe (Oct 20, 2007)

g_xii said:


> Nahhhhhh.... just send them a track with a note you neeed 2 replacements and your email address. You send them a pic with a ruler in it, it's just as likely to be ignored! BE BRAVE!
> 
> --H


I know I'd buy three sets......:thumbsup: The track was the only fault in a great kit......


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

There are no Friul 1/35 tracks that match the Chariot tracks. A big problem is that in real live the Snow Cat aka Chariot used a RUBBER band track with metal strips vulcanized inside and metal cleats bolted to the outside. Unlike World War II and modern tank tracks, which are individual metal links pinned together. 

Things to keep in mind are not only the width of the track, the detail of the track, but also the guide teeth (or lack thereof). Tracks for say the German Panzer IV have one guide tooth right down the middle of the track, since the real tank had split road wheels. Tracks for the King Tiger have, I think, three guide horns. The Chariot has large fat wheels that ride in a groove set down the middle of the track.

Your best bet for a replacement would be to scratch build them from thin plastic strip and wrap them around the kit suspension.


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

djnick66 said:


> ...A big problem is that in real live the Snow Cat aka Chariot used a RUBBER band track with metal strips vulcanized inside and metal cleats bolted to the outside. Unlike World War II and modern tank tracks, which are individual metal links pinned together...
> 
> Your best bet for a replacement would be to scratch build them from thin plastic strip and wrap them around the kit suspension.


Depends on what you want from your model. I can easily imagine some folks want to RC their chariots, in which case a pinned, solid link track _might_ be optimal. Once you have some prototype links made up, you might check with the guy who cast the J2 landing gear parts.


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

The Moebius Chariot canopy is about 1/21 scale. The Moebius Chariot wheels and treads are about 1/24 scale. If you're going to go to all the trouble of trying to scratch build your own tracks, get some aftermarket auto tires with wheels that come close to matching the Chariot and increase the size of the running gear so that the Chariot doesn't look quite so much like a chopped street rod. 
Way back when someone mentioned that they were thinking of doing a corrected set in resin but resin would be just way too fragile for the Chariot treads. And there are hundreds and hundreds of parts to mold if you're thinking of doing them separately. 
Before winter shut me down, I finished a home-built centrifuge and was going to try to cast my own out of metal. I scavenged a wheel and tire near the right size from an old amt Deora kit and lathed the tire to size, rebuilt the wheel, made all the pieces for one whole section of a tread. (Plus a more detailed laser rifle and one version of a '60s snow cat torsion bar for the suspension.) The Chariot had 9 identical sections on each side, which means I'm going to have to pull 18 complete castings from my high temp rtv for each Chariot. I don't know if even high temp rtv will stand up to that much abuse. Sigh. This is all going to be a serious learning experience. How bad can 3d degree burns be, anyway? I guess I'll find out in a couple months when I can get back out into the garage again. 
(And if I can manage to make the rtv last for any extra sets, a couple people here have already spoken for them. [No, I haven't forgotten.]) 
But as far as I can tell, metal is going to be the only way to "mass produce" (ie make enough for just a couple of Chariots) the treads. The only other option is lots and lots of strips of Evergreen. Which, despite how long it takes to do, has to be faster than waiting for winter to end.


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## kdaracal (Jan 24, 2009)

:wave:Thanks, Henry! I love the letter you wrote for me!!:tongue::tongue: HA!

Can you translate that to Hungarian??

I guess I'm not looking for super-accurracy, as so much as I'm looking for realism and not having to hassle with tons of tricks to keep my wheels from melting!! Thanks for all the help, Gentlemen!!

As for scratch-building, I'm a newbie, but also have the patience and attention span of a housecat. I think I'd rather sit down with a bowl of nails with milk and sugar than scratch that out......:wave:

But thanks anyway!!


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## kdaracal (Jan 24, 2009)

starseeker said:


> The Moebius Chariot canopy is about 1/21 scale. The Moebius Chariot wheels and treads are about 1/24 scale. If you're going to go to all the trouble of trying to scratch build your own tracks, get some aftermarket auto tires with wheels that come close to matching the Chariot and increase the size of the running gear so that the Chariot doesn't look quite so much like a chopped street rod.
> Way back when someone mentioned that they were thinking of doing a corrected set in resin but resin would be just way too fragile for the Chariot treads. And there are hundreds and hundreds of parts to mold if you're thinking of doing them separately.
> Before winter shut me down, I finished a home-built centrifuge and was going to try to cast my own out of metal. I scavenged a wheel and tire near the right size from an old amt Deora kit and lathed the tire to size, rebuilt the wheel, made all the pieces for one whole section of a tread. (Plus a more detailed laser rifle and one version of a '60s snow cat torsion bar for the suspension.) The Chariot had 9 identical sections on each side, which means I'm going to have to pull 18 complete castings from my high temp rtv for each Chariot. I don't know if even high temp rtv will stand up to that much abuse. Sigh. This is all going to be a serious learning experience. How bad can 3d degree burns be, anyway? I guess I'll find out in a couple months when I can get back out into the garage again.
> (And if I can manage to make the rtv last for any extra sets, a couple people here have already spoken for them. [No, I haven't forgotten.])
> But as far as I can tell, metal is going to be the only way to "mass produce" (ie make enough for just a couple of Chariots) the treads. The only other option is lots and lots of strips of Evergreen. Which, despite how long it takes to do, has to be faster than waiting for winter to end.


Starseeker: you are the man! This is serious business. Thanks for taking me seriously. I do not mean to make lite of your commitment to accuracy. I wish I had the time and know how to do such awesome work! That is mind blowing!! Thanks, again Sir!


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

With a little patience, and A LOT of spare time, they can be made. These are out of strip styrene. Some day I will have to post my plans for how I did them!


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## kdaracal (Jan 24, 2009)

RSN said:


> With a little patience, and A LOT of spare time, they can be made. These are out of strip styrene. Some day I will have to post my plans for how I did them!


 That's completely crazy-good. I followed this build a while back. Did you use the original track lengths as a foundation?


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## kdaracal (Jan 24, 2009)

djnick66 said:


> There are no Friul 1/35 tracks that match the Chariot tracks. A big problem is that in real live the Snow Cat aka Chariot used a RUBBER band track with metal strips vulcanized inside and metal cleats bolted to the outside. Unlike World War II and modern tank tracks, which are individual metal links pinned together.
> 
> Things to keep in mind are not only the width of the track, the detail of the track, but also the guide teeth (or lack thereof). Tracks for say the German Panzer IV have one guide tooth right down the middle of the track, since the real tank had split road wheels. Tracks for the King Tiger have, I think, three guide horns. The Chariot has large fat wheels that ride in a groove set down the middle of the track.
> 
> Your best bet for a replacement would be to scratch build them from thin plastic strip and wrap them around the kit suspension.


I wish I could strole down a store isle and actually shop this Friul store. I bet a guy with a good eye could find a set that would look like *HALF* of the track. I would further bet a guy could put two halves together to replicate the Snow Cat wide track "look". With 50 different link sets to choose from, it'd be next to impossible to communicate a request like that into the company. 

It looks like another company, *Maquette*, makes aftermarket individual styrene track links. I'll look into that one, too.

I think Henry has the best idea. Mail them the stinkin' original and see what they come up with.


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

kdaracal said:


> That's completely crazy-good. I followed this build a while back. Did you use the original track lengths as a foundation?


Yes, but I came up 3 links short! Lucky for me that I left a lot of extra length to the 4 "rubber" bands. I made 6 new treads and weathered them to match the others! PM me and I will see what I can do about getting you the blueprint I drew up.

Ron


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## kdaracal (Jan 24, 2009)

Thanks for the offer, RSN. I'm going to pursue the aftermarket idea, first (because I'm lazy) and then consider that direction. God bless you, Sir!


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## kdaracal (Jan 24, 2009)

If anyone's interested: check out the build up of the T-34 tank article in this month's Finescale Modeler on page 33-34, figure #13. It talks about using these aftermarket tank tracks.........


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## kdaracal (Jan 24, 2009)

I know this has been posted before, but here is the link to the cloudster LiS site concerning the track details:

http://www.cloudster.com/sets&vehicles/Chariot/Chariot.htm#chariot

Click around and you'll see full size, miniature, and real Snow Cat photos. What a great resource!


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## xsavoie (Jun 29, 1999)

Thanks for the photo link Kd.Very informative.


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

None of Cloudster's Spryte photos show the correct Chariot treads. (That's Shimon Wincelberg sitting in the door. He was about 5'5" - 5'6".) (I now know that is definitely not the correct Snowcat differential butt end in my drawing.)


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## kdaracal (Jan 24, 2009)

starseeker said:


> None of Cloudster's Spryte photos show the correct Chariot treads. (That's Shimon Wincelberg sitting in the door. He was about 5'5" - 5'6".) (I now know that is definitely not the correct Snowcat differential butt end in my drawing.)


Starseeker, Thanks for the fantastic drawings and photo, but I don't understand. Please clarify. Are the cloudster photos not right in some way?


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

There were many, many versions of Snowcats and Sprytes. I'm beginning to think they were all unique. And many different versions of the treads and grousers, suspension and rear gearboxes and control panels. So far, after many years of scouring all the Snowcat sites and auctions, I haven's seen any pictures that match the Chariot's specific running gear. It was a '63 Spryte, I think. The Cloudster reference pictures of the Snowcat give a general idea of what the treads look like, but only very general. All the Chariot's grousers were symmetrical around the center line of the tread and all the grousers extended the full width of the tread. Every seventh grouser had a wide paddle attached to it. There were nine wide paddles. On the inside of the rubber bands, the grousers were backed by short segments of metal channel. None of the Cloudster photos (or any other photos I've seen yet) show that specific tread. 
Off-topic?: there was a lot of debate here when the Moebius kit first came out about the color of the treads. Some photos and screen grabs show the metal parts to be tinted with red. The 24" miniature has very red treads. Apparently Thiokol did use a red(dish) primer that wore off or was dirtied over with time.


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

toyroy said:


> Depends on what you want from your model. I can easily imagine some folks want to RC their chariots, in which case a pinned, solid link track _might_ be optimal. Once you have some prototype links made up, you might check with the guy who cast the J2 landing gear parts.


The trouble with Friul tracks is 1) the largest tracks they offer which are for the Stalin or Tiger Tank are still much smaller than the Chariot and wont fit the wheels and 2) while metal they are still fragile. They are soft lead and held together with softish steel wire. People have tried to use some on the Tamiya 1/35 RC tanks with mixed results.


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## skinnyonce (Dec 17, 2009)

I'm thinking of using some old metal watch bands, [ wide ones of coarse]
i found lying around the house- add links as nessasary, stretch to fit and super glue them in place..

skinny......


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

I have several sets of Friul, Maquette, Dragon 1/35 tracks handy. I will post some pictures later today.


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## kdaracal (Jan 24, 2009)

Starseeker, You did some *thorough* research. All in all, it looks like those treads were designed for easy maintenence. Looks like a regular guy on a ranch or ski lodge could deal with them and keep them running. Thanks for the info. I guess if I decide to modify for realism, I'm going to have to go the route of RSN. Styrene bits. Thanks you for rehashing all this for me. I know this info is buried somewhere in old posts. In any case, thanks again, Man.


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## kdaracal (Jan 24, 2009)

djnick66 said:


> I have several sets of Friul, Maquette, Dragon 1/35 tracks handy. I will post some pictures later today.


Thanks for all the info. The pics would be great. BTW: How does a guy contact or order those Maquette tracks? I can't find an on line resource. 

I was thinking of the idea of connecting the "right looking" tracks together, side by side, basically using 4 tracks, to replicate the "wide" Snow Cat look. Is that totally dumb? Not really feasible? (be honest!)


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## kdaracal (Jan 24, 2009)

skinnyonce said:


> I'm thinking of using some old metal watch bands, [ wide ones of coarse]
> i found lying around the house- add links as nessasary, stretch to fit and super glue them in place..
> 
> skinny......


Interesting! Is your middle name MacGyver? I would love to see a pic of that wristband you have in mind!:thumbsup:
Wal-Mart, here I come.........


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

Maquette is a Russian company that may now be out of business. They sold a couple of sets of non workable, glue together Russian T-34 tracks in 1/35 scale. They are fairly crudely cast and require a lot of clean up from the sprues. Plus each link has two mold knock out pin marks on the inside to putty and sand out. 

The T-34 had fairly wide tracks by World War II standards. It is also called an A+B track in that there are A and B links that alternate. You can't connect just one type of link together, and you have to shorten or lengthen it by pairs. Here is the Maquette track.










Many years ago Tamiya had a motorized 1/25 scale T-34 with snap together vinyl tracks. This is the track from Tamiya's rare kit.










Friul from Hungary makes some soft metal, workable tracks. They are workable in that they will drape naturally over a tank model's suspension to represent the weight of a dead track (the Snow Cat is not the same kind of track). The Stalin, one of the biggest World War II tanks used this track. It is also an A+B track with alternating links.










More typical of average tank track size in 1/35 are these Hobby Boss/Trumpeter tracks for the Panzer Hotchkiss 39(f)










These are Friul's King Tiger tracks. They are quite complex and fragile.










Some real Thiokol Snow Cat tracks










You can see the real tracks, which are NOT made up of links, look nothing like real military tank tracks.

The only tank I can think of with a track VAGUELY like the Snow Cat is the old M-50 Ontos










It had continuous band, vulcanized rubber and metal tracks. Its not a large vehicle though, and there is not currently a kit of it in 1/35, although Renwal offered it in 1/32 scale some 40 years ago. Its still not very wide... perhaps the width of a penny or nickle in 1/32 scale.

Friul tracks run $40-$60 a box ...


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

After writing yesterday that I'd never seen a picture of the Chariot's tracks on a Snowcat, I Googled Snowcats and the first site listed was one I'd never seen before (??):
http://www.safetyoneinc.com/snow-cat-vehicles-gallery.html
You can see here and in their historical gallery just how many different track patterns there were. But right near the center of the page is the picture I've attached below, which looks almost exactly like the Chariot's tracks. It only has two rubber bands instead of the Chariots four, so the U channels inside bridge what would have been a gap on the Chariots. But the outer parts look identical. Note that they are all full width, not staggered. 
Edit: And the blue Spryte looks even more like the Chariots tread. Four bands. I thinks it's the one!
I've occasionally seen some Snowcat sites that still sell the Chariots replacement tread parts. And twice so far the remains whole '63 Sprytes.


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## kdaracal (Jan 24, 2009)

djnick66 said:


> Maquette is a Russian company that may now be out of business. They sold a couple of sets of non workable, glue together Russian T-34 tracks in 1/35 scale. They are fairly crudely cast and require a lot of clean up from the sprues. Plus each link has two mold knock out pin marks on the inside to putty and sand out.
> 
> The T-34 had fairly wide tracks by World War II standards. It is also called an A+B track in that there are A and B links that alternate. You can't connect just one type of link together, and you have to shorten or lengthen it by pairs. Here is the Maquette track.
> 
> ...


djnick66,
Thanks for all that information. You saved me some footwork on approaching the Friul Co. unarmed. It's looking more and more like the way to go is what RSN did with the styrene. Thanks again for going to all the trouble to post this. Seems a shame to let all this research fall away just to be revived by the next newbie. Maybe that's the point of the forum. The experienced helping the new guy. Thanks again, Sir!


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## kdaracal (Jan 24, 2009)

starseeker said:


> After writing yesterday that I'd never seen a picture of the Chariot's tracks on a Snowcat, I Googled Snowcats and the first site listed was one I'd never seen before (??):
> http://www.safetyoneinc.com/snow-cat-vehicles-gallery.html
> You can see here and in their historical gallery just how many different track patterns there were. But right near the center of the page is the picture I've attached below, which looks almost exactly like the Chariot's tracks. It only has two rubber bands instead of the Chariots four, so the U channels inside bridge what would have been a gap on the Chariots. But the outer parts look identical. Note that they are all full width, not staggered.
> Edit: And the blue Spryte looks even more like the Chariots tread. Four bands. I thinks it's the one!
> I've occasionally seen some Snowcat sites that still sell the Chariots replacement tread parts. And twice so far the remains whole '63 Sprytes.


Looks like you are right about the blue Spryte. Thanks for the resource. Oh, how I wish we had a matching aftermarket kit. :freak:
*I need to give it up to Moebius. I never thought I'd see a day where I could build an accurate styrene 1/24 Chariot. Thank you! *


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## kdaracal (Jan 24, 2009)

Holy, crap! Has anyone seen this thread from 2/2007?

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=176549


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

Yup but remember the Kyosho one is about two feet long. They may have had two versions. The one I am familiar with was Nitro/Fuel powered. Its long OOP and will run you several hundred dollars for sure.


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## kdaracal (Jan 24, 2009)

djnick66 said:


> Yup but remember the Kyosho one is about two feet long. They may have had two versions. The one I am familiar with was Nitro/Fuel powered. Its long OOP and will run you several hundred dollars for sure.


It'd be so cool to have an RC 1/12 chariot! Ha! (nitro, of course!!)


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

From the Feb '94 Fine Scale Modeler. An amazing modeller named Steve Bohl, who makes his models using plank on frame construction of mostly balsa covered with water based putty. The article also shows a beautiful 24" wide Spindrift and a 29" FS1. They all have interiors and complete lighting.
Note how Gary Kerr is everywhere.


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## teslabe (Oct 20, 2007)

That was a very nice build and done with the first Kyosho Snow Cat that was on sale in the late 80's and early 90's and only came as an electric, it had the five wheels just like the real thing.....:thumbsup: The new offering that came in both Electric and Nitro only has four wheels and would not look right as a Chariot, you can still find the newer on E-Bay, NIB for around $300. Too bad they had to mess with the wheel count.....:drunk:


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## j2man (Jun 18, 1999)

I have the Blizzard DX which those photos where based on. I just don't have the talent to construct the CHARIOT! But that is the reason I bought the thing. I love playing with that thing.


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## teslabe (Oct 20, 2007)

j2man said:


> I have the Blizzard DX which those photos where based on. I just don't have the talent to construct the CHARIOT! But that is the reason I bought the thing. I love playing with that thing.


Boy, you are lucky, I've seen them sell for over $800 if it was in very good shape and over a grand if NIB.......:thumbsup:


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## j2man (Jun 18, 1999)

I have had mine for about 3 years and paid nearly 450.00 for it. It was built but never used. All I had to do was add the servo's buy batteries and chargers and away we went. LOL. As I stated, I have had it in the closet for nearly 2 years. I'd probably part with it, but am still hoping to find someone who will help me build the thing into a chariot. Not many of my buddies are into to kit bashing or hobby building.........


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

j2man said:


> ...I'd probably part with it, but am still hoping to find someone who will help me build the thing into a chariot. Not many of my buddies are into to kit bashing or hobby building...


Don't give it up! With guys like Starseeker and Brent Gair and so many others here, you'll surely get what you need to build that chariot.


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## j2man (Jun 18, 1999)

http://images.google.com/imgres?img...gbv=2&ndsp=20&hl=en&safe=active&sa=N&start=20

Have a look Toyroy!


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

j2man said:


> Have a look Toyroy!


Looks like a good setup, for someone who wants to build a Kyosho-based chariot. 

I'm not actively working on it now, but I'd like to see a metal link track which can reasonably simulate the chariot tracks, and run well on an RC Moebius model.


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## kdaracal (Jan 24, 2009)

j2man said:


> http://images.google.com/imgres?img...gbv=2&ndsp=20&hl=en&safe=active&sa=N&start=20
> 
> Have a look Toyroy!


Link seems to be broken.............


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## Paulbo (Sep 16, 2004)

It's working for me. Comes up with a Google search for Blizzard DX. Here's a direct link to the page Google is referencing: http://getrccar.com/1915/kyosho-blizzard/


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