# Josh Wells Taylor MI (thief)



## etwd (Apr 21, 2010)

*Josh Wells Taylor, MI (WARNING)*

A warning to all:

I contracted w/ Josh Wells (19-years old) in Taylor MI to build a Moebius J2 which included lighting & paint. Additionally, I paid extra for purchasing and installing the Paragrafix brass etchings and the 'Hero' J2 legs. I found his products on ebay (go figure).

The ship arrived crushed (CA) due to his negligence in packaging the model properly. To make matters worse, the model did not have the 'Hero' legs attached, rather the model specific legs. When I confronted him, he said they broke while packaging the model so he put the Moebius legs on and shipped anyways.

Rather than getting upset, I asked him to send the 'broken' legs to Paul w/ Paragrafix so that he could evaluate and advise. Unfortunately, Josh never sent the hero legs to Paragrafix. Paul w/ Paragrafix can confirm this matter, as I have kept in contact w/ him. At this point, I believe he added those ‘Hero’ legs to some other client's ship. I have left several messages via email and vmail. I have also contacted his Father's home number and also his email. Josh uses his Father's Paypal account to collect the build fees (should have been a red flag for me).

If you would like to discuss the build quality, please feel free to pm me.

PS: He displays his builds on utube under the name 'lismodels224'


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

Hate to hear this- is the J2 totaled?
The leg swap is rather suspicious- you may be correct in what happened to them. I cannot really see how all three could get broken while packing...

.


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## etwd (Apr 21, 2010)

Richard Baker said:


> Hate to hear this- is the J2 totaled?
> The leg swap is rather suspicious- you may be correct in what happened to them. I cannot really see how all three could get broken while packing...
> 
> .


He packed the model 'upside down' and used newspager for packing. It appears that the box was crushed from the top. My eyes are not what they used to be so I have to find someone to re-glue the interior parts back together. As for the lower hull and legs, those are destroyed. I know that i can purchase the lower hull from Moebius, but I want the legs i paid for and Josh needs to step up here. Gawd forbid, I would never send the model back to him for repair, as he's lied to me so many times, I fear I would never get the model back. It's like pulling teeth with this guy. Promises and more promises but never any results.

Here's my model posted on his utube account. Notice that the 'Hero' legs are on the model. Whether I'm looking at 'my' model is another story....


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

In general when u pay someone to build a model, you should ask around, get references, etc. Also, with something like that, make sure it is INSURED when its mailed. Hopefully you can get it fixed up...


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## Captain Han Solo (Apr 5, 2002)

That's a Shame Mate:drunk:

I feel bad for you. Hopefully it will all work out?!?!


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## etwd (Apr 21, 2010)

beatlepaul said:


> That's a Shame Mate:drunk:
> 
> I feel bad for you. Hopefully it will all work out?!?!


Thanks. Everything will work out, as it always does. It's just the pain of going of through this everytime I mention "Jupiter 2". I am one of many that feel victim to the 'Icons' thieves. I paid for (2) pre-order J2's and only received the infamous 'j2 Blueprint.

My wife thinks I've gone mad. Get bit by a dog, never go back. Guess I like to get bit........

If you walk away and get anything from this thread, please, remember the name Josh Wells.


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## Captain Han Solo (Apr 5, 2002)

etwd said:


> Thanks. Everything will work out, as it always does. It's just the pain of going of through this everytime I mention "Jupiter 2". I am one of many that feel victim to the 'Icons' thieves. I paid for (2) pre-order J2's and only received the infamous 'j2 Blueprint.
> 
> My wife thinks I've gone mad. Get bit by a dog, never go back. Guess I like to get bit........
> 
> If you walk away and get anything from this thread, please, remember the name Josh Wells.


Again, Hopefully you get all your Money Back.

There are a Number of builders here who would gladly take the job for you.

I ordered the Icons Jupiter 2 as well.

But for some reason, I decided to cancel the order. I got on the Phone with Jim L. and demanded my money back..which he did do..Before everyone else got ripped off. I forget what made me cancel it:freak:


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## etwd (Apr 21, 2010)

beatlepaul said:


> Again, Hopefully you get all your Money Back.
> 
> There are a Number of builders here who would gladly take the job for you.
> 
> ...


Wish I had enough sense regarding Icons. As for Josh, he knows that I paid directly from my checking account and that Paypal can do nothing except put a mark against his Father's Paypal account. I believe that's how he lost his Paypal account.............


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## bert model maker (Feb 19, 2002)

You were ripped off in more ways than one ! bad packing and stealing your hero legs. Go after his dads account since that is where YOUR money went to ! That is theft no matter how you look at it AND I HATE THEIVES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think everyone who is contracting with this Josh jerk should cancel their orders with him and DEMAND their money back.


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## Dar (Apr 20, 2007)

Didnt he post here a couple times??

Sorry to hear that. I used to live in Taylor. Moved to Dearborn Heights, just across the street from Taylor and about 4 miles from where I used to live.(my parents still live in Taylor)

Keep PMing him maybe he will come around.


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## etwd (Apr 21, 2010)

Dar said:


> Didnt he post here a couple times??
> 
> Sorry to hear that. I used to live in Taylor. Moved to Dearborn Heights, just across the street from Taylor and about 4 miles from where I used to live.(my parents still live in Taylor)
> 
> Keep PMing him maybe he will come around.



I think 'word of mouth' will hit him where it counts........his pocketbook.


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## etwd (Apr 21, 2010)

bert model maker said:


> You were ripped off in more ways than one ! bad packing and stealing your hero legs. Go after his dads account since that is where YOUR money went to ! That is theft no matter how you look at it AND I HATE THEIVES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think everyone who is contracting with this Josh jerk should cancel their orders with him and DEMAND their money back.



Yes, that would be ideal! This guy gave me many red flags, but being the trusting person that I am, I gave him the benefit of the doubt. It was like me trying to breast-feed him with everything I asked for.


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## RJBaxter3 (Jun 16, 2009)

Hello,

If this transaction went through (and not outside of) ebay and you paid via Paypal, you have recourse with Paypal to get your money back. See: https://www.paypal.com/ch/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_pbp-info-outside. I am not sure what "...put a mark against his Father's Paypal account..." means, but I have used the Paypal billy club on a few aspiring thieves. The end result each time was I got my money back. It was completely irrelevant whether that money came from the unsuccessful thieves or their daddies or or their mommies or their loan sharks. Making those bad situations right were all that really mattered. You can also file a complaint with ebay through their resolution center. Go after the kid and show no mercy. Dishonest deeds should never go unpunished.


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## etwd (Apr 21, 2010)

RJBaxter3 said:


> Hello,
> 
> If this transaction went through (and not outside of) ebay and you paid via Paypal, you have recourse with Paypal to get your money back. See: https://www.paypal.com/ch/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_pbp-info-outside. I am not sure what "...put a mark against his Father's Paypal account..." means, but I have used the Paypal billy club on a few aspiring thieves. The end result each time was I got my money back. It was completely irrelevant whether that money came from the unsuccessful thieves or their daddies or or their mommies or their loan sharks. Making those bad situations right were all that really mattered. You can also file a complaint with ebay through their resolution center. Go after the kid and show no mercy. Dishonest deeds should never go unpunished.


Paypal tells me that there is a 'time-period' in which they can intervene and reimburse. The last payment to Josh (Paypal) was on May 28th. When I received the ship, he told me that he would send the legs out when he came back from vacation. Unfortunately, I gave him more than enough time and when I tried to contact him recently, I got no response. According to Paypal, the time for doing something was between May 28 and July 12th. I'm sure Josh knows the ins and outs of Paypals reimbursement protocol, as he kept me guessing for over (1)-month........

As for Ebay, since the transaction was not through them, nothing can be done.


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## etwd (Apr 21, 2010)

If anyone knows other 'sites' where Josh Wells advertises his models, please let me know. I would like to add some nice comments to 'increase' his disposable income.


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## Moebius (Mar 15, 2007)

I've had luck on being ripped by contacting the local police department in their town. Give it a try and see what they say. You may be surprised!


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## idMonster (Jun 18, 2003)

etwd said:


> If anyone knows other 'sites' where Josh Wells advertises his models, please let me know. I would like to add some nice comments to 'increase' his disposable income.


I don't know if he advertises on either of these sites but they're very popular and you'll be able to spread your warning to a lot more people:

Starship Modeler
http://www.starshipmodeler.com/

CultTVMan
http://www.culttvman.biz/phpbb2/

Sorry this happened to you, man.

Gordon


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## spocks beard (Mar 21, 2007)

So sorry to hear about this!
I just saw a post here the other day of a couple builds done by this guy for a friend of his of the chariot & J2.
Even though they were great builds,I wish now that i didn't give him such nice compliments,As his friend whoever that may be, May also have been ripped off as well:freak:
I know he advertises on Ebay a lot,As well as posts his J2's on Youtube.
And he posted a lot of his J2 builds here for a long time,And then he kind of just stopped.The chariot/J2 was the first post i have seen from him in some time,& Maby he was hoping to get a bit more bussiness going here again.
Hope every thing works out in the long run:thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## bert model maker (Feb 19, 2002)

You need to tell pay pal that he intentionally caused you a delay for HIS vacation ! he used their system to further rip you off and steal using pay pal rules to be successful in his theft. Explain this to pay pal and demand they make an exception.


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## Seaview (Feb 18, 2004)

For 19, he's pretty sharp, but inexperienced with the ways of the legal system. Get his local PD involved in a fraud investigation, and let this kid sweat out his laziness, carelessness & arrogance.
I despise thieves, too.


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## razorwyre1 (Jan 28, 2004)

paypal does not make exceptions. if its past their deadline, youre s.o.l.. 
(actually, jobs like this arent something that paypal was designed for. basically you contracted this guy to perform a service. he breached that contract. paypal was never meant to enforce that sort of contract. its as if you hired a contractor to build a brick wall for you, and you and that contractor use the same bank. the contractor screws up the brick wall. you really cant expect your mutual banker to be anything but a concerned bystander about it.)

i used to live in taylor mi, and still live nearby. contacting the police might be your only recourse, but, given taylor's other problems, dont expect it to be too high on their priority list. (i sincerely hope i am wrong about this.)

if you were local, small claims court would really be the way to go. 

good luck!


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## rkoenn (Dec 18, 2007)

I had one very bad incident with Paypal/eBay. I bought some DVDs and the guy was a total farce. He never had them and never shipped them, blatantly lied on eBay. I filed a complaint with both eBay and Paypal. All they said was tough luck! That really pissed me off. He took my money within 24 hours of the Paypal transfer. So I wonder what I am paying all that money to Paypal for? I thought a goodly part was for security? They should have held the transfer until my goods were delivered considering the guy had a relatively new account. I also learned he had done it to some other people as well.

So I guess Josh did not insure it? He should have done that but of course he would have had to pay out a few bucks to do it, money more easily put in his pockets. How much did you pay him? And if it weren't broken, how good was the build job? Had it not been broken and had all the parts you paid for been installed, would the job he did have been worthwhile?


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## johncal (May 26, 2010)

I'm really sorry to hear that happened. I don't know how these things can all together be avoided except by people reading about there experiences here. It's terrible that this happened, but at least you've done others a good service by helping them to avoid this themselves. Hopefully at least that is of some consolation.

JC


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## hedorah59 (Nov 24, 2008)

He posts on this board, his ID is lismodels224 here as well. You can search on his ID to find his threads.


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## Tim Nolan (Jul 9, 2008)

With the low standards many 19 yr. old seem to have these days, I'm not sure I would have contracted him in the first place with this kind of high-dollar kit and all the extras to go with it, no matter how good he claims to be. (I have a 19 yr. old son, who I dearly love, but his scruples ain't the same as mine a lot of the time!) Unfortunately, the internet has provided fuel for many thieves fires, and this kind of thing seems to be coming more and more common. I hate being ripped off too, especially when you can't seem to get any satisfaction. Sorry this happened to you and your kit! 

There seems to be several good building services from guys on here though, so maybe ask around for good advice on who to use. I have an old high school artist friend, Simon Mercs, who has a model building service called The Kit Factory. He DOES deliver the goods, and runs a very professional business with excellent credentials. He's very proud of his work, and will certainly tell you so!  LOL. Best of luck in your endeavors, and don't give up on the Jupiter!!!!!!


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## Tiberious (Nov 20, 2001)

Having had my own share of problems with Unobtainium, I feel your pain.

I hope you somehow get some satisfaction......please keep us posted.

Tib


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## Jafo (Apr 22, 2005)

the local police cannot do anything in this matter. it is a CIVIL matter not criminal, though it may seem that way. Trying to insure a built model is almost impossible as who will say what the model is worth? different amounts to every person and a nonmodeler will have no clue how to appraise it. that aside, I hope you get your money back and some satisfaction. Your best bet is to SUE him. good luck


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

hedorah59 said:


> He posts on this board, his ID is lismodels224 here as well. You can search on his ID to find his threads.


He could be reading all of this and feeling smug about how he was able to pull a fast one, leaving you in a legal limbo. 
Contact the kid's father. His son is commiting fraud and his father is aiding and abetting him in it by helping channel the money. Thus far the father has only heard the son's side of the story, properly spun so he is the poor victim of some mean guy. Revealing what has really happened, providing times, details and such, he may force the kid to man-up and settle it properly.
Seek the advice of an attorney. Adding up the cost of the kit, the enhancement parts and labor charged, plus the depection and manipulation of the payPal system- this involves some real money. Does the action cross state lines? Another angle to explore.


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## woof359 (Apr 27, 2003)

every one should go to his you tube site and post warning !


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## The Batman (Mar 21, 2000)

This is a family friendly public forum, Moebiusman. While your emotions are clearly understood, I will remind you not to use profanity in your posts.

- GJS


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## g_xii (Mar 20, 2002)

Well folks, we're only hearing one side of a story here, and if things are as they are represented, it's a sad thing indeed.

I'd rather not have a thread here that just continues to bash a particular user, though, and the original point has been made (numerous times).

I'm particularly concerned about the language that was used here -- let's all remember that one of Hank's BIG rules is to keep it friendly, and not to make other users/members uncomfortable with our comments. 

So, time to move on... Nothing to see here, folks...

--Henry


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