# Orion and Peak 4800s



## woodytx (Nov 5, 2004)

Tower has a description that says there is a "installed/balancing port". Does it? what hardware do you need to use to balance these? It says the case is sealed.


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## briano_72 (Jan 21, 2006)

also says in r/c car action you really do not need to balance em.


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## woodytx (Nov 5, 2004)

briano_72 said:


> also says in r/c car action you really do not need to balance em.


the faq says that balancing will help but not required.


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## garyrcdoc (Oct 15, 2005)

*trying out the Lithium(-ion) polymer batter*

Several racers in our club (in my stock racing class) have been trying the Orion type of Lipo's and have said that they liked them. 

I bought two of the packs from PureHobby (at $25 dollars apiece - I HAD to see what the fuss was about). At any rate, I really, really did like them. They seem to have more initial punch though I cannot tell if this additional "punch" is due to any real power flow or simply due to the much, much lighter weight. At the end of the straightaway, I am no faster than the NiMH (or than I was before), but the buggy and truck to seem to handle differently (and this MUST be due to weight difference). 

The buggy and truck seem to turn faster and jump better (again I think this is from lighter weight mainly). The LiPo's I bought were the 2600s and their weight was approx 83 grams. I wired two in parallel for a total of 5200 mah power. At $50, this is also much cheaper than the matched NiMH packs I had been buying. Though it required a LiPo capable charger (I bought a duratrax ICE), it has been a satisfying change for me. 

Like the ease of brushless motors, the LiPo batteries require less maintenance (though they require more attention to important details, there are fewer 'details" to pay attention to - over and undercharging mainly...)

Also, PURE hobby's prices for LiPos were wonderful. I wish orion/peak would not simply consider what people will pay (i.e. what the market will 'bear') but what is a fair price. I bought FOUR MORE LiPos from Pure Hobby for 2/3's of the price of a single 4800 mah LiPo from Orion (That makes TWO 5200 mah batteries for $100 - better than the ONE 4800 mah from orion) Though WITHOUT the protective plastic case that orion sells.

At any rate, LiPos are very, very nice.


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## ta_man (Apr 10, 2005)

Gary,

Could you tell us a little more about your setup regarding the speed control? Do you have a LiPo specific speed control that has a voltage cutoff? My concern with using a regular speed control is that I might over-discharge the pack and ruin it in one run.


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## garyrcdoc (Oct 15, 2005)

*Over discharge of LiPo's and speed control*

TaMan - I simply used the GTX (novak) in my buggy and the LRP 7.1 I normally used in my truck. Like you, I did have initial concerns about 'when to stop driving' my cars so I did a bit of 'research'.

I drove the packs for a few minutes and then re-peaked them to see how much energy the packs used (for a rough estimate on run time). What I found is that when I ran three races with my Buggy and re-peaked the LiPo's after each race, the amount of mah's required to re-peak was approx 683 mh/ 650 mah and 700 mah on each of three races. If I did this correctly, then it meant that I "used" approx 700 mah of energy for a 5 minute race in my buggy (less than the energy I used c NiMH - again I think, due to the significantly lighter weight). When considering up to an 80% (or so) discharge, this means that I should be able to run up to approx 30 minutes (i.e. 6 of my '5 minute races') to use up approx 4200 mah of my 5200 mah total (i.e. I am scared to approach too close to the 5200 mah for fear of undervoltage damage). After doing this I realized that I had PLENTY of spare time to race and practice (I don't think I 'practice' for more than 20 minutes at a time...).

Also, I bought two more of the 5200 mah equivalents from Pure Hobby so that I can use up to 1 1/2 hours of run time (approx 80% of 3 packs) before exhausting my three batteries. And THIS is if I DON'T place a battery on the charger at 5.2 amps (1C of a 5200 mah battery).

I feel that the impact of the battery is more than just run time however. The tangible benefits are the way the lighter vehicle seems to handle. I theorize that I can run a lighter dif setting due to less weight, wear out tires at a slower pace, etc, etc. It's not just the 'race' changes that I'm excited about. It's almost as though I have a differently handling car to play with. since the car was designed with a heavier battery in mind, I am thinking of mounting the 2600 battery (approx 2 3/4 ounces) or the 5200 mah on TOP of the battery bar to try to RAISE the center of gravity so that I can try to regain more weight transfer during cornering since the car seems to corner so flat without extra weight. At least now I have the pleasant challenge of adding weight WHERE I WANT IT. 

All in all, I am fascinated by the possibilities that Lithium (ion) Polymer has added to my driving. It's been fun and at the lower prices, I could not HELP but enter the LiPo club. 

I hope that I haven't raved too much but it's really been an exciting discovery. I felt really wonderful at the purchase of my first brushless since I could drive and not spend as much time in maintenance. I felt wonderful at the advance of the Spektrum modules for RC. And once again, I feel wonderful with the discovery of LiPo. 

I DO worry however, that there will be inexperienced kids who buy LiPos and are not careful with them; have some accidents from misuse of the LiPo packs, and then the liability for the sales/useage of LiPo may ultimately outlaw them in some races or at some tracks... (I don't think LiPo is currently a technology for the unwise; the uncareful or the perpertually nervous...) Liability is such a significant issue nowadays.

gary


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## woodytx (Nov 5, 2004)

Gary,

I am very happy with my peak pack. I looked at pure hobby in an effort to support the supporters of hobby talk. I just could not make since out of there website. I looked very cryptic and not arranged by aplication. I was afraid I would get cells for an airplane or flash light. Can you post the product numbers you used?


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## Craps (Mar 22, 2005)

Not meaning to rain on the Orion/peak parade and I am glad they jumped into the li-po world to get the attention from the racing sanctioning bodies to move towards approval of li-pos in racing, but the plastic case is way over kill and adds to the cost of them when we have been using Thunder Power TP8000-2S4P li-pos that fit right into the battery tray, weighes close to 5 ozs less than a 6 cell nickel pack, has the same or little more voltage than the 6 cell nickel pack with 8000 mahs of runtime and can be found at some LHS for around $160. It does not have the plastic box around it, but it does have heavy duty heat shrink and the battery trays in our stadium trucks do a fine job of protecting the battery we have been competitively racing now close to 2 years with no accidents and with around 30 1/10th stadium truck racers now owning them in the Carolinas.

Again, I appreciate what Orion and Peak have done by jumping in to li-pos and it will help all of us li-po fans in the long run!!!

PS. I am not affiliated or sponsored by Thunder Power, but they do have a great customer service that if there is a problem they either replace it for free or if it is an older li-po version or a customer related problem they will replace for half cost of retail that I have even had them do to just upgrade from older versions to newer versions with no problem.


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## garyrcdoc (Oct 15, 2005)

*The packs I bought from PureHobby*

*Woodytx* 

I am very sorry that I didn't get back to you on the pack / product number. I jjust didn't get back on the internet to this site for a couple of days.

I bought the PQ2S - 2600N packs and checked just a few minutes ago and they are not sold out.

the link to them is below:

http://www.purehobby.com/Narrow%20Polymer%20Packs.htm

I would have bought the 3100 mah but they JUST sold out of them. As it worked out, i can JUST barely fit two of the 2600's (nacked with the coating removed) under my battery bar in the Losi XXX or XXXT. However, i am thinking of seeing how the racer handles using JUST the single 2600 (it would be lighter still - but then I'd lose the ability to charge the 5200 battery at the higher amperage 5.2 amps and would be limited to the 2.6 am charge rate....with extra batteries it may not matter a bit... we'll see)

*Craps - * 
That is REALLY interesting that they've used lipo's for such a long time without accidents. I really HAD anticipated that SOMEONE would have tried to take the "shortcut" of trying to charge a lipo with a normal charger in the iinterest of saving money. I'm glad to hear that they've had such a good record of safety in NC. I have a question for you. Are many of the racers either equalizing or _NEEDING TO equalize_ their lipo packs or are they simply running them without equalizing? Thanks in advance for your time in answering

gary


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## Craps (Mar 22, 2005)

Gary
We just started balancing packs with the TP Balancers and *doesn't* seems to make much difference. We still have a pack go out of balance every once in while that is usually from somebody over discharging the pack and then charging it making it swell up. Thunder Power usually replaces those for half price with a new pack.


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## garyrcdoc (Oct 15, 2005)

Craps - 
when you wrote that you have "started balancing packs with the TP Balancers and seems to make much difference." did you mean to say that it DOES seem to make a difference?

thanks for the clarification 

Gary


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## Craps (Mar 22, 2005)

garyrcdoc said:


> Craps -
> when you wrote that you have "started balancing packs with the TP Balancers and seems to make much difference." did you mean to say that it DOES seem to make a difference?
> 
> thanks for the clarification
> ...


Thanks! I did not catch that! I edited it with *"doesn't"*!


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## purehobby (Feb 4, 2005)

Hello Everyone Thank you all for the support. I do still have some of the pq2s-2200n packs left in stock at the lowest price you will ever find however it is only while supplies last. These packs can be found here http://purehobby.com/Narrow%20Polymer%20Packs.htm
Also I too carry the tp8000-2s4p packs that are 8000mah and butt kicking run time. They can be found here http://purehobby.com/Thunder-Power-Lithium-polymer.htm at the bottom section of the page. 
I will continue to look for great packs at low prices so if there is something you are looking for or do not see on my website please email me at [email protected] and I will be happy to do my best to point you in the right direction.

Robert
www.purehobby.com


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## Semore (Apr 7, 2005)

I am running Novak brushless GTB and SS+5800 do you think that will work with lipos PQ2S-2200N?

Thanks Semore


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## hankster (Jan 1, 1998)

The 2200N will work. Using two of them will double the run time.


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## Semore (Apr 7, 2005)

I talked to Robert at purehobby and the GTB with burst at 110amps and thats to much for the those lipo. I will need somme thing more then what they can do. Charlie S from Novak informed my what the burst amp draw was and to told that to Robert.


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## Craps (Mar 22, 2005)

Semore said:


> I talked to Robert at purehobby and the GTB with burst at 110amps and thats to much for the those lipo. I will need somme thing more then what they can do. Charlie S from Novak informed my what the burst amp draw was and to told that to Robert.


If the li-po is rated at 12C continious discharge rate that is multiplied by the amp capacity of the battery to give you what it can take. That is why I perfer the bigger Thunder Power TP8000-2S4P. 8000 mahs is 8 amps in capacity times the 12C continious discharge rate equals 96 amps with a burst discharge rate well over 100 amps that it can take and hardly get warm with the Novak GTB 5.5 system. 

At a 1C recommended charge rate means no matter what size mah battery will all take over 1 hour to fully charge any of them. So with that said the bigger mah capacity battery charge time will be faster with the same amount of runtime. 

Example: A 5 minute race will use close to 2,000 mahs of runtime and using an Astro Flight 109 charger. The 4,800 mah battery charged at 1C rate of 4.8 amps will take around 40 minutes to peak charge it back to full capacity and the 8,000 mah battery charged at 1C rate of 8 amps will take around 25 minutes to peak charge it back to full capacity. Note: You may have to wait on the 4,800 mah to cool down before putting it on the charger versuses the 8,000 mah battery that is mildly warm can be hooked right up off of the track to the charger. Remember 4,800 mah or 4.8 amp battery size times the discharge rate of 12C is only 57.6 amps that should be real warm to hot and you will want to wait for it to cool off before charging just like nickel batteries.

I hope this helps some of you out. One 8,000 mah battery is all you need with around 30 minutes of runtime and a fast recharge time, 1 is all you need!!!


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## OvalTrucker (Dec 14, 2003)

Craps,
Do you know if the 8000 mah pack will fit nicely in a XXXT? That is what I am racing with a Novak SS controller and a 5800 motor.
I am close to switching to LiPo's and fitting in the truck is the only thing I have not confirmed yet. 
I will be charging with a Duratrax ICE.

thank you


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## Craps (Mar 22, 2005)

It is a tight fit in the T-4 and the XXX-T. Just make sure you have pads front and rear and make sure the battery bar on top is not too tight holding down the battery or it can ruin the top cells in the battery. Some Losi Truck racers make battery bars from a piece of thin brass from the RC airplane section of the hobby store.

Good luck!


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