# Plastic Track and 18" Curves



## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

Montoya1 said:


> More and more it looks as if the after-market 18'' curves should have quickly followed by a 21'' and NOT Tyco curves. Now it looks too late.
> 
> What I would love is for someone to do a 7.5'' and 10.5'' curve, but I know that will not happen in 2-lane ''toy'' track...


 I've written about this before. The two main obstacles to producing track are cost and warehousing. It costs quite a bit to get a single piece to market and then you need to warehouse thousands of pieces because in order to make it at a reasonable cost, you need to make thousands. And when you're a one or two man operation, the warehouse is your house.
Track does not fly off the shelves like cars. Take a look at your favorite vendor and see how much track they offer. Therefore track sits in inventory a long time.
As I said, I am still surprised the Tyco/Mattel track has not sold out very quickly. The need for the 6" and 15" curves for Tyco track seemed to be a no-brainer - and maybe I'm stubborn, but it still seems like a good idea. If only 500 people in the whole world, in the WHOLE WORLD, would take 8 pieces each, that would deplete enough inventory that newer pieces (like long straights, bigger curves and banked curves) would be designed and hitting the market very quickly. That's really not asking a lot.
I know I could build a Tyco track for a fraction of the cost of a Tomy track because of the bulk pricing on Tyco track.
With both Tomy and AW threatening to make an 18" curve, that would pretty much make our mold useless. It is not our intention to compete, but to compliment. I still shake my head that neither Tomy nor AW approached us to either buy our mold or have us produce the track. Why incur the cost of doing your own design and mold? In fact, it is amazing to me that AW would make it's own track instead of making a deal with Tomy. I just can't see that as being profitable.
With such a small customer base, why would you expend the time, energey and resources to make something that already exists? There are so many new track pieces which could be made, that to remake existing pieces just seems foolish.

Joe


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## Crimnick (May 28, 2006)

I will keep with my intent to buy at least two full sets of 6" to 15" tyco...

and I will most likely being adding some tomy curves to that order...

soon....

Crimmy.

P.S. are those guys even aware that you are allready tooled to do 18" tomy?


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

Crimnick said:


> P.S. are those guys even aware that you are allready tooled to do 18" tomy?


 Scale Auto bought some 18" curves and you'll see them listed on their website, along with the Tyco curves. I assume that means Racemasters is well aware of their existance. In fact, second hand information got back to me that Racemasters was surprised that we could make track in runs as "small" as we did. It seems they need to make runs on the order of 100,000 pieces at a time.
I wrote an e-mail to Tom Lowe a couple years back when I heard about the possibility of a raceset being produced. I stated that we already had the 18" curve made and could design other pieces pretty quickly since we had the tooling in place. I got no response.
Of course, they no doubt can probably make them much cheaper than we can if they produce on a grand scale. But why reinvent the same wheel?
And although I do not want this to be a firm statement, it may very well be that after the current inventory of Tomy compatible 18" curves are gone (I have about 300 left), we will not make any more unless we get a distibutor/customer who wishes to purchase an entire run.

Joe


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

Joe,if you haven't already seen this thread,it's something you might be interested in.
Steve Russel of Racemasters is talking about Tomy's new curves /cars etc. here.
I apologize for the link Hank.
Rick

http://slotcarillustrated.com/portal/forums/showthread.php?t=12542


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

Hornet said:


> Joe,if you haven't already seen this thread,it's something you might be interested in.
> Steve Russel of Racemasters is talking about Tomy's new curves /cars etc. here.
> Rick


 Yes, I did get a chance to read through it. That thread pretty much confirmed what I had heard through the grapevine.

Joe


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## TGtycopro (Jun 1, 2006)

Just think of all the curve options one could have had if the big guys stayed away from the LOOPS...............Anybody here incorporate a Loop into their racetrack?? Nope didnt think so 

3 million lonely loop pieces of track are gathering dust in boxes somewhere.......First guy to figure out How to straighten them WINS!!!


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## coach61 (Sep 6, 2004)

TGtycopro said:


> Just think of all the curve options one could have had if the big guys stayed away from the LOOPS...............Anybody here incorporate a Loop into their racetrack?? Nope didnt think so
> 
> 3 million lonely loop pieces of track are gathering dust in boxes somewhere.......First guy to figure out How to straighten them WINS!!!



Tyco loops are just 9 inch banked track..lol.. now to get 15-25% banking would be cool.. these one we get are well.. a tad off scale...


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

TGtycopro said:


> Just think of all the curve options one could have had if the big guys stayed away from the LOOPS...............Anybody here incorporate a Loop into their racetrack?? Nope didnt think so
> 
> 3 million lonely loop pieces of track are gathering dust in boxes somewhere.......First guy to figure out How to straighten them WINS!!!


 There are only two uses for loop track I have found. Boy, is this going to sound dirty....one is to use it in combination with a Tyco hump track. A loop followed by two hump tracks followed by another loop will create a semi-bridge. Strong magnet cars will probably not like this one.
The other use is to create a semi-bank. A single loop leading into a 180 degree turn, followed by another loop. Lifelike uses this technique a lot in their race sets. You could actually create multi-lane (4 or more) turns this way.
However, the loop track case only reinforces my earlier point. Why is AW making it's own track if it's compatible with Tomy? Why expend the resources to recreate already existing pieces? With the proper financial resources, you could buy the useful Tomy pieces and create a few new pieces. How about 3" square intersections? Larger curves? Larger/better banks? A 3 1/2" terminal/jumper track with undertrack connections (which could be used to make all kinds of odd size lengths)?
Although if you started from scratch, you could design a plastic track far superior to Tyco, Tomy or Lifelike. But, that's a losing financial position so you are really left with enhancing the existing product. Duplicating the product seems silly.

Joe


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## BewstdGT (Jan 4, 2005)

I agree with everything you guys have said. The banking isnt even close to realistic on the 9" pieces tyco made. Those are so steep you cant run t-jets or afx cars on them. It would be nice to have banking thats more realistic or wider turns like Joe has. And I also agree loops are just plain a waste. The tracks are geared towards 8 yr olds because that stuff appeals to them but the bigger market of people who buy track pieces is the older generations that do it as a hobby. Oh well, what can ya do?

This is why people make routed tracks from wood, its more customizable! I just wish I had the time and money to do it.


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## Slott V (Feb 3, 2005)

I found a good use for the loop tracks, the squeeze lanes and all those other track pieces nobody uses... :tongue: 

Decoration!~


















Now if I could just find a use for the 8 million 9" curves I have in a box... :freak:


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

Interesting interior design! At second glance, I would have mounted the loops in line with the back straight. You could then work out a point system for shooting light benders through the rim. The lower hoop would be a 2 pointer, and the upper hoop a trey! :tongue: 

For our combined eighteen million 9" curves have you heard of a "laggie"? It's a euro model railroad thing that I assume they use for elevation changes in close quarters. :freak: 

It would be like Aurora's "Cobra Climb" only the Anaconda version. Might be interesting wrapped around a basement column too. Especially if it was functional. I'm assuming that like me you also have the corresponding 9 million pieces of plastic guardrail as well?!  

I had often considered shingling my roof with excess curves, but the the black color would draw to much solar.  

Foiled again  

Thats a nice rack in your magazine collection....er I mean a nice rack of collectable periodicals you have there...drool.


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

Slott V said:


> Now if I could just find a use for the 8 million 9" curves I have in a box


 And just think - AW is going to make MORE!!!!!!!!!


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## coach61 (Sep 6, 2004)

Grandcheapskate said:


> And just think - AW is going to make MORE!!!!!!!!!



Making more 9" curves is like more news coverage on Paris Hilton....useless...

:tongue: 

Coach!


22 degree 18 inch curves... now that I would get a tad more excited about...


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## BewstdGT (Jan 4, 2005)

coach61 said:


> 22 degree 18 inch curves... now that I would get a tad more excited about...


That would be hot! Someone needs to do this...*wink wink* Tom!


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## Slott V (Feb 3, 2005)

Bill Hall said:


> Thats a nice rack in your magazine collection....er I mean a nice rack of collectable periodicals you have there...drool.


Ha I forgot about those! Years ago at the old house there were our "Heavenly Bodies" above the backdrop on the wall. These were clipped from a Sports Illustrated Calender. You're seeing that stack of girls on that shelf with all of my old HO literature. Too funny. A piece of Vargo Speedway history.


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

coach61 said:


> 22 degree 18 inch curves... now that I would get a tad more excited about...


 And what about a 30 degree turn???
The problem with making 22.5 (or 30) degree turns (1/16th) is that you may need to make more than one size radius right at the start so you could use them in a 4 lane track.
My original thinking for the curves, if they sold really well, was to make an 18" Tyco followed by 21" 1/8 curves for both Tyco and Tomy. After that, the 24" and larger curves would probably have been 1/16th rather than 1/8th. If sales were good, maybe we could start working the 1/16th curves backward - 21" to 18" to 15" to 12", etc. Of course, at some point curves are as large as they need to be.
However, since Tomy and AW are going to do an 18" curve, and Jim Russell dropped a hint about a possible 21" curve, I doubt you will see any Tomy compatible track being issued by us. Can't take the chance on doing something either one of them are also going to produce. We tried to enhance the track options, not compete.
However, Tyco/Mattel is a different story. Doesn't seem like we have to worry about them deciding to do anything exciting.

Joe


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## Slott V (Feb 3, 2005)

Bill Hall said:


> For our combined eighteen million 9" curves have you heard of a "laggie"? It's a euro model railroad thing that I assume they use for elevation changes in close quarters. :freak:
> 
> It would be like Aurora's "Cobra Climb" only the Anaconda version. Might be interesting wrapped around a basement column too. Especially if it was functional. I'm assuming that like me you also have the corresponding 9 million pieces of plastic guardrail as well?!


This what you're thinking of? :freak: 










More good uses for excess track from Steve Mosora, aka "*22tall*". Wild stuff! Be sure and check out his car collection also.
http://home.bluemarble.net/~smosora/tracks.html

Thread related to these tracks:
http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=112347

-Scott


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## 13013comstock (Nov 25, 2006)

I'm not set on a permanent layout; I prefer to create replicas of Formula 1 tracks (4-lane). I have designed several, starting with, but improving upon the Tomy Super International layouts (I have two SI sets and use a 6 x 12 table). It would sure be nice to have some 1/16th turns in a variety of radii to make more realistic layouts. Has anyone out there tried to make their own?


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## Crimnick (May 28, 2006)

Joe....Steve posted that they wouldnt be doing any 21" tomy any time in the near future...


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

Slott V said:


> This what you're thinking of? :freak:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hi Scott, Thanks for the archive update. Those spirals would be what I was talkin' about. So I'm wondering when 22 Tall plugs that thing in do the lights go dim on the other end of town? Slot brown out! LOL. 

And they say I have too much time on my hands.


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## Scafremon (Dec 11, 2006)

Caption for photo:

22_Tall: "Hon, where'd you put my car keys?"
TM: "They're hanging on the key rack in the closet"
22_Tall: "crap"


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## ParkRNDL (Mar 20, 2002)

Holy frijole. Am I seeing right? Is that a 6-lane track, with each of the spirals serving 2 lanes?

--rick


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

ParkRNDL said:


> Holy frijole. Am I seeing right? Is that a 6-lane track, with each of the spirals serving 2 lanes?
> 
> --rick


 Can't be. A six lane track would need 6 spirals - two for each pair of lanes; one going up, one coming down.
I think what you are seeing is a 2 lane track using three nested curves.

Joe


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## Crimnick (May 28, 2006)

Oh it's six lanes alright....if you look closely...there are four towers...the one in the center is a six lane...


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## neophytte (Sep 14, 2006)

TGtycopro said:


> First guy to figure out How to straighten them WINS!!!


Try this: http://neophytte.mine.nu/forum/forum.pl?fid=05&topic_id=1155977499


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## noddaz (Aug 6, 1999)

Maybe Joe (Grandcheapskate) could use all the extra 9" turns as raw materials for his custom turns... Grind the 9's up and presto! lol


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

noddaz said:


> Maybe Joe (Grandcheapskate) could use all the extra 9" turns as raw materials for his custom turns... Grind the 9's up and presto! lol


 Heck, with all the 9" 1/4 curves out there, I could make real 1:1 curves.

Joe


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