# Check This Out PL Collectors



## Guess Who (May 19, 2004)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6059496954 

Got the link from Spock's boards.

James


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## MonsterModelMan (Dec 20, 2000)

Can Dave M verify if this is legit?

Looks pretty close to me from what I remember...??? But it says "early casting"? How many were cast before they scrapped it?

MMM


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## A Taylor (Jan 1, 1970)

I'm sure Jim made a set of molds for himself - and it's definitely the sculpt shown in the PL catalog from 02.


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## Dave Metzner (Jan 1, 1970)

I can't remember who cast the prototypes. 
Jim Groman did not cast the prototypes, it was done by (for lack of a better description) a subcontractor.
This particular "kit" is plainly from the molds used to cast the prototypes.
I'm guessing that it is an "extra" casting that never got sent to Playing Mantis. 
I know exactly where every piece we had went. 
This is a prototype casting that was never in our possession!

Dave


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## Arronax (Apr 6, 1999)

For those of you joining this thread late, this is what Polar Lights advertised in their 2002 catalog.










Jim


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## beck (Oct 22, 2003)

very cool . and not a bad price ( so far lol ) . it'll be an interesting auction to watch . 
hb


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## AFILMDUDE (Nov 27, 2000)

It would be cool if someone like Retro Resin got a hold of this. Course it's not very retro - and I'm sure there's copyright issues - but I'd want one!


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## TAY666 (Jan 8, 2000)

AFILMDUDE said:


> It would be cool if someone like Retro Resin got a hold of this.


So you are saying you want a recast?


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## Just Plain Al (Sep 7, 1999)

Would it be considered a recast if it was never released in the first place?


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## TAY666 (Jan 8, 2000)

It was obviously released as there is one right there on ebay.
And I have heard from a few other people who also have this.
So it's out there.


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## Just Plain Al (Sep 7, 1999)

Sorry Trevor, I thought the one on the Bay was only a "one-off" from the molds that never went to PL, I didn't realize that some of these were ever available for public consumption.


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## TAY666 (Jan 8, 2000)

Well, I don't know how public it was (especially since Dave didn't know about it).
But I am assuming there was a small run done. Probably never advertised or promoted and kept to a small group of people 'in the know'.

There are lots of resin kits taht have rediculously small production runs.
A few months ago, I bought my daughter a Hagrid bust. There was a total of 10 or 11 cast, and that is it.


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## Ratmaster2000 (Jul 20, 2005)

Oh yah, thats what I wanna spend my money on, the Matthew Broderick Love Story


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## AFILMDUDE (Nov 27, 2000)

Look - If this thing had even a small limited release - at least several of us on this board would have one. I think it's safe to say it wasn't released (read Dave's earlier post). 

The problem as I see it is that RC2 owns this particular mold design and even if you changed the name (ala "Bellringer") you couldn't legally release it until the company owning the mold no longer existed (if they didn't sell it). Of course I admittedly speak from complete ignorance of copyright law...


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## Ignatz (Jun 20, 2000)

I wouodn't mind owning one of these. It'll be like owning Toybiz's Onslaught, or any one of the many unproduced Aurora concepts. That's a piece of PL history, a view of what might've been.


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## TAY666 (Jan 8, 2000)

AFILMDUDE said:


> Look - If this thing had even a small limited release - at least several of us on this board would have one. I think it's safe to say it wasn't released (read Dave's earlier post).


What is your definition of a small limited release.
In the GK industry that is like 5 or 10 pieces.
With a run like that, how would 'several on this board' have them?
Especially since a lot of people on this board tend to shy away from resin kits due to the cost.

All I know, is since this auction came up, I have heard from 2 other people that they also have this piece. So that makes 3 castings for sure in circulation. I am sure there are more. Lots of guys in the hobby don't hang out online, or post on the boards I frequent.


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## XactoHazzard (May 20, 2003)

I bid on it

travis


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## beck (Oct 22, 2003)

good luck Travis . hope ya get it . 
hb


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## Jimmy B (Apr 19, 2000)

Was the box art ever created for this? I'd like to have a look.


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## ChrisW (Jan 1, 1970)

Jimmy B said:


> Was the box art ever created for this? I'd like to have a look.


They were going to use a photo from the movie. Mock ups were made for Toy Fair, but I don't know if any were ever shown in catalogs or online.


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## geino (May 9, 2006)

Since R2C owns the molds, why don't they release the kit? I realize that the movie was not among the most popular films, but the kit was cool looking and I would have bought a couple. I am sure others in the post would also purchase the model.

Wouldn't it be better to make some money off the mold rather than let the it sit there and make nothing?


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## XactoHazzard (May 20, 2003)

geino, PL was forced on a C&D... They didn't have a choice... Big Iguana or not TOHO is a bigger monster.

Travis


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## phrankenstign (Nov 29, 1999)

XactoHazzard said:


> geino, PL was forced on a C&D... They didn't have a choice... Big Iguana or not TOHO is a bigger monster.
> 
> Travis


Really? I don't remember hearing that. Where did you get that information? The story I remember was that TPTB decided it (and the Big G w/Babies version) would be too expensive to produce without a good enough return...especially since the movie wasn't a big success. (I always liked the movie. However, I didn't think it should have been called Godzilla. The Monster that Ate New York would have been better!)


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## AFILMDUDE (Nov 27, 2000)

TAY666 said:


> What is your definition of a small limited release.
> In the GK industry that is like 5 or 10 pieces.
> With a run like that, how would 'several on this board' have them?
> Especially since a lot of people on this board tend to shy away from resin kits due to the cost.
> ...


Tay

I wasn't speaking of a possible black market release of a few pirated pieces. If that qualifies then the upcoming film "X-Men 3" probably had a "limited release" months ago in China.


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## Dave Metzner (Jan 1, 1970)

This piece was never tooled as a styrene kit. It only exists as resin castings from a sculpt comissioned as a protoype. 
RC2 has nothing connected to this project. As far as I know the built-up that was photographed for the catalog is in Tom Lowe's personal collection. 

We were not forced to abandon the project by Toho. 

The project died because the tooling costs were too high to produce the kit profitably at the retail price point we felt that the kit needed to be at.
We killed the project when we decided it would not be profitable.

Dave


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## XactoHazzard (May 20, 2003)

Sorry guys I had a Brainfart!!!
I was thinking of the Go Kart, my bad!

Travis


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## TAY666 (Jan 8, 2000)

AFILMDUDE said:


> Tay
> 
> I wasn't speaking of a possible black market release of a few pirated pieces. If that qualifies then the upcoming film "X-Men 3" probably had a "limited release" months ago in China.


What do you think a resin kit is?
AT least 75 % of all resin kits have no licensing.
Very few ever see a production run of over 100 pieces.
Most are usually around 30-50 pieces.

You suggested that it would be nice if Retro Resin got a hold of it.
About all they have are resin castings of styrene kits.
Which most are ambivalent about since there is a big difference between resin and styrene.
But if they started doing castings of resin kits, then that would be flat out recasting. Which is the bane of all garage kit producers.


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## Heavens Eagle (Jun 30, 2003)

A couple of years ago I bought (off of EB) A resin kit of the Babylon 5 Whitestar. This was the LARGE one (about 22 inches long). Apparently only about 100 of this kit were made before a C & D were put on the producer by Warner. It isn't a bad kit and I do feel that I got my large dollars worth. I have since accumulated a sizeable library of Whitestar info. Here is a link to an article about one that was finished.Whitestar article

In addition I decided that this kit (large as it is) should have the areas lighted that need it. THAT is going to require some work.


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## Heavens Eagle (Jun 30, 2003)

Holy Moly! $510 bucks! I would have gone for $300 or so but that was just a little bit much.


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## Duck Fink (May 2, 2005)

Sorry to Monstermodelman and XactoHazzard and anyone else on the board that bid on this. Hope y'all don't mind some friendly competition. This was something that I obviously wanted BADLY! So much for rent next month..........and I was just talking about how a cinemodel phantom was way overpriced at 120 bucks. This godzilla kit will fit well into my collection though and is a nice rare item indeed.


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## XactoHazzard (May 20, 2003)

WOW! $510! Congrats Ducky!
You better take it on the road for others to see when it's done. It's a shame it's not plastic then it could make the rounds like the Mystery Machine did.

My $200 bid lasted alot longer then it shoulda and I was amazed to see Bob's bid as well. I wanted it but not that bad... 

Travis


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## Duck Fink (May 2, 2005)

Thanks Travis! This is one of those kits that I am torn between building or keeping in pieces for another collector/builder down the road (a LONG time down the road). I will cherish this one for quite sometime whether it be built up or in pieces. I need to polish my airbrush skills before I attempt doing this one. Time will tell. I will certainly share pics and take it to wonderfest if it gets that far. All of you on this board will know about it first, should I ever decide to pass it on to a new owner.


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## AFILMDUDE (Nov 27, 2000)

TAY666 said:


> What do you think a resin kit is?
> AT least 75 % of all resin kits have no licensing.
> Very few ever see a production run of over 100 pieces.
> Most are usually around 30-50 pieces.
> ...


So let's see if I've got this straight: This "extra" casting (as Dave calls it since he knows where all PL's castings went) done most probably without PL's knowledge is a legitimate, official "limited release." But the suggestion that Retro Resin cast it (in a legitimate legal manner as I suggested) would be the "bane of all garage kit producers." Hmmmm...


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## MonsterModelMan (Dec 20, 2000)

Congrats Duck! I wish I could have landed that piece as I would have tried to keep it in the family...

Yeah...it was alittle steeply priced but I would have loved to have had it in my collection. If you ever have it casted or know where I can get one, please call me!

I can't wait to see the build up.

MMM


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## Duck Fink (May 2, 2005)

Thanks Monstermodelman. Pricey was the word of the day. 
I know I am new to this site, I don't really know anyone on here personally and I am not part of the longtime original bunch. I have been modeling for the past 10 years. I just began reaching out to everyone online that share my passion within the past year or 2. I want to start posting more and get to know everyone on here better and hope to meet everyone at wonderfest (next year for me). I do not make a lot of posts but I am certainly not leaving anytime soon! I will share this kit with everyone for sure!


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## fjimi (Sep 29, 2004)

Congrats Duck and welcome to the boards! I think I've bid with you on e-stuff before
 Consider yourself lucky you got it! Money comes and goes and you have something far more valuable to many folks than a couple of benny's!!!

(shhh-no snickering vets...)

You'll find 99.9% of everyone here is nice and extremely knowledgeable on a variety of topics. You may find a hot button here or there with a few...


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## Duck Fink (May 2, 2005)

Thanks fjimi! Is your ebay name the same? I have seen it alot on these boards but I don't necessarily remember it from e-bay. I am sure we had to bid on the same thing somewhere along the line. I tend to shy away from items if another member is bidding on it with exceptions to the extremely rare stuff.

I know I have gained a lot of PL knowledge from this site in the past. I just joined a year ago and I watched it for a good year or 2 before that. Thanks to ALL who have posted!


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## fjimi (Sep 29, 2004)

yep, same name same game aint a damn thing changed~ fjimi. If I bid on something I don't have I usually bid to win. I have also backed down on bidding like you said.


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## geino (May 9, 2006)

Congrats Ducky,

I am sure I am not alone in wondering if you are familure with copying resin kits? This way you could keep the original as new.


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## Duck Fink (May 2, 2005)

Yes I am aware. For now I am going to consider it a one of a kind. If I decide to do something with it I will make it known here on the board. I don't want to start any buzz or wild rumors about recasting this kit. I know there are quite a few people that would love to have one. It is in the back of my mind.

Thanks for the congrats and I look forward to talking to you on here, geino!


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## stevieD (May 5, 2002)

I heard a rumor that one of the big lizards is gonna make an appearance at Wonderfest!!!!!!!!! I have one of the kits, it was a gift from the artist himself for my 40th birthday six years ago!


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## Duck Fink (May 2, 2005)

awesome, StevieD! There are a few others that I have heard of that exist outside of the original Tom Lowe prototype. Not sure if Tom just has the one prototype or if he has a couple. I know that I am tickled to have one of these things! I stand corrected regarding my earlier statement of "one of a kind" to "very few".

Also.....Thumbs up to Heavens Eagle....another veedub fan!


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## stevieD (May 5, 2002)

from what I gather, there is about six to eight floating around.


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## Heavens Eagle (Jun 30, 2003)

I used to be a big Vdub fan mostly the OLLLLD stuff. '47, '55, a number of other cars years ago now. Still have a bug but it has been in storage forover 15 years. Custom paint and then divorce caught me off gaurd.

And congrats on the aquisition. Glad it is staying within the "group". I had the thought of doing a limited recast as well. Only with the of the sculptor and everyone else involved. Would have done it not for profit, but to even out the total cost a little.


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## Troutman2 (Feb 19, 2002)

Gee, guys, has the Polar Lights board gone so far south that it's OK for buyers of rare kits to be cheered and goaded into recasting it? It's basic: Recasting is bad for the hobby, don't do it.

C'mon, it's not like people are gonna die if they can't have this Godzilla kit. Keep it what it is, Duck Fink: A very unusual model kit that generates of lot of excitement and sells for a whole lot of money.

Or, if you desperately want to become a producer of this kit, find the people who created it and see if you can work something out with them. If they so no, drop it.


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## Buc (Jan 20, 1999)

Hey, Ducky...

Who is draven687dah? I'd be interested to know who sold this
to you.

Congrats on the win. Little too steep for my wallet, but a nice
win nonetheless.

Buc


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## 1bluegtx (Aug 13, 2004)

Troutman2 said:


> Gee, guys, has the Polar Lights board gone so far south that it's OK for buyers of rare kits to be cheered and goaded into recasting it? It's basic: Recasting is bad for the hobby, don't do it.
> 
> C'mon, it's not like people are gonna die if they can't have this Godzilla kit. Keep it what it is, Duck Fink: A very unusual model kit that generates of lot of excitement and sells for a whole lot of money.
> 
> Or, if you desperately want to become a producer of this kit, find the people who created it and see if you can work something out with them. If they so no, drop it.


Without starting a war here could someone explain to me why it is ok for retroresin and other companies to recast aurora and pirates of the carribean kits but it would not be ok for someone to cast the godzilla?

BRIAN


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## Troutman2 (Feb 19, 2002)

I'd say it's not OK to recast even the classic stuff, but quite a few people on various forums disagree with me and enjoy those recasts a lot. And, for what it's worth, I enjoy seeing pictures of the built-up kits even though I doubt I'll every buy one myself.

As I understand it, the arguments for why these recasts are OK is that the kits are long out of production — in the neighborhood of 30 years — and there's practically no chance they'll be available again. I'd have to let someone else explain why the people who were involved in the actual creation of those kits shouldn't have some say, particularly the people who created the sculptures themselves and the box art; many of them are still alive. Still, I'd have to say I don't get in a big twist about these kinds of recasts, if only because it's not worth the stress.

RetroResin, by the way, is producing a couple of original kits now. The upcoming Fly is neat.

With newer pieces like the Godzilla, it's very easy to point to who created it and who owns it, and those people are the ones who should decide what happens with their work. They're also the ones who should profit off it. Recasting it steals those options from them.

Sorry if this reply is disjointed; I've had to run away from the computer four times to try to keep my daughter from prematurely awakening from a nap and being a grouch the rest of the day.


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## Duck Fink (May 2, 2005)

Buc....thanks for for the congrats. I hate to give out his personal info without him knowing. I will say that he told me that he worked for the person that cast the protoype. I am not even sure who cast the prototype (StevieD obviously does...who is it, man!) Dave Metzner mentioned earlier in this thread that the sculptor was NOT Groman. It cost me double of what I would consider my maximum bid. The next most expensive kit I own is the Ed Roth Mr. Gasser in a BRM slot car kit...still sealed in an ass-smackin' hot mint box. I don't bid high like that very often. 

Troutman....Boy I LOVE a good debate.....please don't take offense to anything below because I respect your passion for collecting and I understand where you are coming from. First thing is first....

I am NOT out to make mad dollars off of this kit. So as far as desperately wanting to become a producer of this kit, the answer is a big NO. I agree with you as far getting the people's permission that was originally involved in the project. I don't even know any of them so if anything were to happen.....it would not be anytime soon. From what I understand someone tried to do that in the past and did not follow through for whatever reasons. I am not in a mad pursuit to meet Tom Lowe and the sculptor and everyone else to get blessings. My game is Architectural design. That is where my clams come from. Modeling is for fun!

I am a builder AND a collector...having said that.....sure I would LOVE to have a second one to build but finding one or buying one is totally out of the question. Should I meet the right people and get blessing from all involved I would pursue it further.

I agree with you when you say it is cool to have a neat rare kit that generates excitement. That is always fun too! The collector side of me enjoys that.

Now as far as "It's basic: Recasting is bad for the hobby, don't do it." I think you are 50 percent right. read on.............

First of all I am a builder as well as a collector. I got back into modeling in the spring of 97 when Angel Fink was reissued. I was drunk (somewhat sloppily) at one of the largest swap meets on the east coast (Carlisle, Pa.). I staggered past a stand that had Angel Fink right out in the open for 5 bucks a kit. It was the first kit that I bought since my youth (late 70’s early 80’s). I put it together in a couple of days and went straight to MJ Designs and bought the PL Monster Mobile reissues. I then built more finks as I found the reissues. I also bought a couple of weird-ohs reissues and slapped them together. Put together some barris reissues, daniels reissues etc. As time went on I built more kits and drank a little less.

From 97 to the spring of 04 (when the reissue of Scuz Fink is plastered all over the net) I had built everything that I bought. I made sure that I finished the kits I had started before I bought more. That all changed when my girlfriend introduced me to eBay in the spring of 04. That is when I became a collector. 

From 97 through the spring of 04 I had spent a total of 250-400 dollars on all of my kits, all reissues (7 year time span). I did not even buy my first ORIGINAL model kit until 2 years ago when I started collecting. 

I could have bought a brand new car (not used) with all of the money that I have spent in kits over this 2 year timespan (some are very rare ORIGINAL kits). No joke. Not a cheap car either. I have DEFINITELY NOT hurt this hobby, the UPS, USPS, FED EX, eBay , PAYPAL, 100’s of sellers, local hobby shops and yes……I probably even got some guy in Taiwan a new set of wheels for his donkey cart in exchange for delivering a couple of recasts through the jungle.

My point being this……I have a pretty good feeling that there is a guy out there that bought his first resin recast drunk (or hung over) at Wonderfest years ago and has a similar story. He probably started like I did....buying a kit here and there and then it eventually snowballed. I am sure he buys many expensive original casts when he can these days and has done his fair share at supporting the hobby by buying orginal casts of his favorite kits. We’ll probably hear from him as soon as the janitor makes him get off of the floor of the Lizard Lounge.


I know that all of the collectors of these original kits are sad to see reissues (or resin recasts) come out if they are in it for collecting purposes only. That means that there pot of gold is worth less. It makes the builders happy because they can build the kit they always wanted to but could not afford. I know there are some Aurora collectors out there upset about some of the prices of their kits dropping because of the Polar Lights reissues. It really takes both sides to make the hobby work.


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## beck (Oct 22, 2003)

have you guys seen the auctions of original Aurora kits lately ?? 
collectors are still paying the $$ for 'em . 
hb


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## Duck Fink (May 2, 2005)

I have seen(4000 dollar munsters). That guy made about 24 grand off of 20 original Aurora model kits in one night. Unbelievable. I know they are still paying the big bucks for them but maybe not as many people or as often. Being relatively new to the board I felt this was the perfect opportunity to share my perspective regarding recasting. I shall probably never speak of recasting again! A-men


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## TAY666 (Jan 8, 2000)

Has anyone here read the recast FAQ?

http://members.shaw.ca/batmaniak/recast/recast_faq3.htm

Recasting is what kills the GK hobby.
Producers lay out good money to sculptors to make the pieces, spend money and time to make good molds, and produce a kit that people want.
Then some scumbag comes along, buys one kit, recasts it and sells it for half the price because he doesn't have the same investment to make back.
The original producer loses sales and takes a loss on the kit.
After this happening a few times, they just don't bother anymore.
(these guys don't make nearly the money on a kit that you think they do. Why do you think most of them still have day jobs?)
Sculptors get disgusted with their art being ripped off and quit doing garage kits.
New modelers get fed up with crap castings and shoddy quality and quit buying kits all together.
The net result is all bad for the hobby that is already small as it is.


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## Duck Fink (May 2, 2005)

Very interesting and to the point. Thanks for posting this link Tay666. I never really thought twice about buying a recast. That page did shed some light on the evils of recasting.


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## ChrisW (Jan 1, 1970)

DF - Congrats on the Godzilla winning bid!

Jim Groman is most definitely the sculptor - but apparently he did not cast the prototypes.


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## Dave Metzner (Jan 1, 1970)

The sculptor was Jim Groman. Jim DID NOT cast the prototypes.
That was done by someone Jim Knew.
At that time Jim's studio was in Cleveland Ohio. The guy who did the castings was somewhere else. For some stupid reason I want to say Columbus Oh???
It really doesn't matter. The fact is that we should have demanded that the caster send us the rubber molds with the castings (we didn't)
Oh well! I hope that somebody eventually builds some of those resin kits that are floating around out there!

Dave


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## Duck Fink (May 2, 2005)

Thanks for clearing that up guys. Much appreciated.


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## Heavens Eagle (Jun 30, 2003)

Hmm looks like there is one point in that there are the "Rip" casters and then there are (or could be) legit recasts where those involved with the original sculpts and such get compensation. Agreed most are ripcasters and they do the hobby a disservice. Doing an authorized rerelease of an unavailable item with compensation (or at least full permission) could help the hobby in my opinion.


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