# Ann Darrow's dress color



## Aurora-brat (Oct 23, 2002)

Okay, all you "so called" King Kong experts, here's one for you. What color was Ann Darrow's dress supposed to be in the original King Kong? 

The reason I ask is that I am presently building a Polar Lights/Aurora re-issue King Kong and am not sure what color to paint the dress. The box art has her in a red dress, but after reviewing several old B&W stills from the movie, I'm pretty sure it isn't red, looks more to be white, yellow, or light blue to me.

Anyone know for sure? 

Tory


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Wow, good question. In my mind, I always thought it was light blue. Might just be because I think blondes look best in a blue dress.


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## portland182 (Jul 19, 2003)

Acording to mattel it was pink!

http://www.epinions.com/content_104992575108

Jim


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## Zorro (Jun 22, 1999)

Of course, the 1933 Ann Darrow didn't wear a 1960s cocktail dress or ice cream cone hair either - so "accuracy" on the Aurora kit is sort of a moot point. Interestingly, on the "Spider Pit" recreation on the new "King Kong" DVD - you get a much better look at the back-legless lizards included with the kit. They're much bigger in the movie - but the Aurora King Kong is utterly "scale-less" to begin with.


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## Ignatz (Jun 20, 2000)

I think the 1933 Kong was shot on early panchromatic film, and there might've been contrast filtration too, that'll affect the tone too. It's kind of hard to tell by tonality alone. It seemed very light, so any light, pastel hue ought to do it. I'm thinking it could be a white dress, or light blue or like green are also obvious candidates.


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## beck (Oct 22, 2003)

looked light gray to me . 
hb


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

The behind-the-scenes stuff on the new DVD shows that for some processes, Fay was shot thru a yellow filter, and the background through a blue filter. That should screw with the final tone on film too!


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## spe130 (Apr 13, 2004)

John, I haven't gotten around to the special features (or_Son_ or _Joe Young_). Why did they filter it that way?


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## The Batman (Mar 21, 2000)

If you are building the kit OOB, then obviously you want to try to simulate the look of the dress she wore ON THE ISLAND ( as opposed to the Empire State Building scene ).

The actual color is a moot point ( unless you want to match the colorized version of the film ). But, you'll find that the Aurora Fay Wray's dress is not acurrate in OTHER ways - It had a row of big buttons, and later on it was badly torn exposing her lace bra ( or is that a slip and _no _bra? ) - but, considering that most of the Ann Darrow figure is covered by Kong's grasp, that may or may not come into play with your building of the kit.



































spe130 said:


> John, I haven't gotten around to the special features (or _Son_ or _Joe Young_). Why did they filter it that way?


Probably for better contrast - all of those gray tones would have a tendency to blend together making it difficult for the eyes to seperate the characters from the background otherwise.

- GJS

Incidentally, the _colorized_ version of King Kong has Ann's dress as being ... *PINK*.


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## The Batman (Mar 21, 2000)

http://www.classictrailers.co.uk/kingkong.html


- GJS


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

The yellow.blue was part of the compositing process, I assume to give the best contrast between the two subjects being combined. I don't recall if it was for the bipack process, the rewind-and-double-expose matt process, or the brand new optical printer process.


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## lonfan (Feb 11, 2001)

John P said:


> The yellow.blue was part of the compositing process, I assume to give the best contrast between the two subjects being combined. I don't recall if it was for the bipack process, the rewind-and-double-expose matt process, or the brand new optical printer process.


 
Damn John- Betcha' can't say all that 3 Times Real Fast? lol:tongue: 
Seriously, I see that most not all of the Builder/Producers of Kong Kits seem to show Ann in a Pink or Lavender Dress.The most recent version I built (which was Dark Horse's Vinyl Kit) shows a Pinkish and Btw on a side note, it seems to me that the Sculpters like to Portray Kong in the Skull Island setting yet they seem to always portray the Ann Darrow figure to look more like the New York Scenes, IMHO I think Geometric's Vinyl Piece Comes Closest to capturing (no pun intended) the whole look.Meanwhile My Mrs. sez the Dark Horse Kong has that one Out Streched Arm has him looking like he's Singin' "Figaro" or some Opera! lol BUT if you have this Kit I figured out you can Attach the Polar Light's Fying Reptile Kit (It's too early for me to try Spelling Terydactyl! lol) Anyhoo I attached it to Kong's out streched Hand and it really does look like it came that way. Just an Idea lol

John/Lonfan


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## Aurora-brat (Oct 23, 2002)

Thanks guys, that is quite a bit of information to digest.

I'm presently leaning towards white or off white for the dress, as the pink might not contrast the flesh tone of her skin very well. 

I guess I'll just have to cross that bridge (or log!) when I get to it.

Tory


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## terryr (Feb 11, 2001)

Banana yellow, obviously.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

terryr said:


> Banana yellow, obviously.


 PERFECT!!! :lol::lol:


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## BEBruns (Apr 30, 2003)

John P said:


> The yellow.blue was part of the compositing process, I assume to give the best contrast between the two subjects being combined. I don't recall if it was for the bipack process, the rewind-and-double-expose matt process, or the brand new optical printer process.


From what I remember of the early compositing process, the background footage was printed in shades of yellow and bi-packed with the raw negative. The foreground footage would then be shot with the foreground lit with yellow light against a blue screen. The yellow-tinted film would act as a filter. Since yellow and blue are contrasting colors, the yellower parts of the image would turn black or dark gray. But on the foreground, the yellow light theoretically would react the same to all parts of the bi-packed image, turning it transparent. So, essentially, if something in the live action is blue, the negative will record the bi-packed image, if something is yellow, it will record the live action. Simple? 

Maybe I can create some illustrations this weekend to make it clearer.


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## the Dabbler (Feb 17, 2005)

"Banana yellow, obviously."

Well Ann DID have a-peal, and she was slippin' around with a monkey !!  

The Unknown Pundit


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## lastguardian (May 20, 2005)

I've always thought her dress was a champagne color, which was high fashion in the 1930s (as well as in other eras). 

Shane


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## lonfan (Feb 11, 2001)

lastguardian said:


> I've always thought her dress was a champagne color, which was high fashion in the 1930s (as well as in other eras).
> 
> Shane


 
"Shane,Come Back"...sorry Hey I think you have something there with the champagne color Cause I'm thinking Perhaps any other color that we maybe seeing COULD be just being picked up by the nutral color of the Dress. (Yes even in the Painted Box Art) Perhaps Mr. White Could shed more Light on this though? One last thing on a completly Unrelated note, Did ya' ever see that Study that shows how Automobiles that get in to the most Accidents are 80 percent of the time "Champagne" Colored? Yeah Apparently the Explanation is that Cars in this Shade are easiser for other Drivers to not see (apparently it's a Psychological thing) Anyhoo, I'm sorry to veer off Topic you just reminded me of that piece of Trivia. Carry on


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## beck (Oct 22, 2003)

that's funny , i've always thought that the "Beauty and the Beast " outfit she comes out in would be champgne colored . 
and has anybody noticed on the remastered version we've been seeing on TCM ( and i assume the new DVD release ) how "yowza" flimsy that dress is ?
not that there's anything wrong with that !! 
hb


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## irocer (Aug 22, 2000)

The colorized version shows a light pinkish color and the large bottons a shiny red. I know these could be wrong via the colorization process, but that is what it shows.


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## scotpens (Sep 6, 2003)

BEBruns said:


> From what I remember of the early compositing process, the background footage was printed in shades of yellow and bi-packed with the raw negative. The foreground footage would then be shot with the foreground lit with yellow light against a blue screen. The yellow-tinted film would act as a filter. Since yellow and blue are contrasting colors, the yellower parts of the image would turn black or dark gray. But on the foreground, the yellow light theoretically would react the same to all parts of the bi-packed image, turning it transparent. So, essentially, if something in the live action is blue, the negative will record the bi-packed image, if something is yellow, it will record the live action. Simple?
> 
> Maybe I can create some illustrations this weekend to make it clearer.


I would certainly appreciate it if you could! It does all sound a bit confusing, but I get the gist: It was a traveling matte process that yielded less-that-perfect results -- notice portions of the foreground (live action) plate being "eaten away" in the scene where the dinosaur attacks the men on the raft.


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## spe130 (Apr 13, 2004)

irocer said:


> The colorized version shows a light pinkish color and the large bottons a shiny red. I know these could be wrong via the colorization process, but that is what it shows.


Colorization was just whatever color the poor sucker doing it happened to pick up...they turned Sinatra's eyes brown once... :freak:


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## The Batman (Mar 21, 2000)

spe130 said:


> Colorization was just whatever color the poor sucker doing it happened to pick up...they turned Sinatra's eyes brown once... :freak:


True enough. I remember watching the colorized version of THE PRINCE AND THE PAUPER. There was a line wherein someone mentioned "the royal purple robes" - but, whoever was in charge of colorization colored them RED!

- GJS


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## BEBruns (Apr 30, 2003)

scotpens said:


> I would certainly appreciate it if you could! It does all sound a bit confusing, but I get the gist: It was a traveling matte process that yielded less-that-perfect results -- notice portions of the foreground (live action) plate being "eaten away" in the scene where the dinosaur attacks the men on the raft.


Wasn't sure if anyone was interested, but apparently there is at least one other tech geek on the boards.

OK. It's the early '30s and you want to combine this:










with this:










You start by printing the black and white background in yellow and white:

















The foreground is lit with a yellow light:










The yellow tinted background is threaded into the camera with the negative. This acts as a filter:










Since the live action is blue, yellow and black and the background is yellow and white, you come up with these combinations:

Blue + yellow = Black
Blue + white = Blue

So anything blue in the live action creates a blue and black image of the background image.

yellow + yellow = yellow
yellow + white = yellow
black + yellow = black
black + white = black

So the film of the background has no effect on the yellow-lit foreground:










And in black and white, it looks like:










Of course, there are obvious problems with this. Since it is done in-camera you only have one shot at it. If any of the colors are slightly off, you get bleed-through. This technique was quickly replaced with rear projection as soon as it was feasible.


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## Zorro (Jun 22, 1999)

Those are nice mountains!


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

Yes they are.

BOTH of them!


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Beautiful explaination!

In the extras on the Kong DVD they point out some of them moments in the film where they had bleed-thru. When Kong smashes the gates open into the native villiage, you can see thru the doors at the lower right. There's some transparency to the log while he's tossing sailors off it, too.

Where it really worked well was the plane crashing down the side of the ESB.


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## drewid142 (Apr 23, 2004)

If you're building the '33 version... why not do it in grey scale?


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## BEBruns (Apr 30, 2003)

Trek Ace said:


> Yes they are.
> 
> BOTH of them!


I was wondering when someone would pick up on that straight line.

I created the foreground with Poser 6 using their standard female model.

If you search the internet with your adult filter off, I don't think you'd be surprised at what some people are using Poser for.


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## scotpens (Sep 6, 2003)

BEBruns said:


> Of course, there are obvious problems with this. Since it is done in-camera you only have one shot at it. If any of the colors are slightly off, you get bleed-through. This technique was quickly replaced with rear projection as soon as it was feasible.


Doesn't rear projection predate the bipack process you so lucidly explained? I have no idea when that technique was first used, but the rear process screen goes back at least as far as _Just Imagine_ in 1930. The original _Kong_ used just about all the techniques available at the time for creating composite shots, many of which would not have been possible without Linwood Dunn's brand-new invention of the optical printer.


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## BEBruns (Apr 30, 2003)

scotpens said:


> Doesn't rear projection predate the bipack process you so lucidly explained? I have no idea when that technique was first used, but the rear process screen goes back at least as far as _Just Imagine_ in 1930. The original _Kong_ used just about all the techniques available at the time for creating composite shots, many of which would not have been possible without Linwood Dunn's brand-new invention of the optical printer.


It was my understanding that KONG was the first movie that used moving rear projection. Still rear production goes back at least to 1913, but in the silent era, the quality was very poor. Bi-pack cameras were used in the '20s. The advantage of the optical printer was that you could shoot the elements separately and combine them afterwards.


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## Mark McGovern (Apr 25, 1999)

*OT, or rather, back to it.*

I'm building a PL Kong, too. While I find all the opticals stuff _verry _interesting, I'd like to get back to topic for a moment.

The Aurora/PL version of Ann Darrow was sculpted with her shoes on. My photo references don't show how long they actually stayed on Fay Wray's dainty tootsies in the film, from the time she was kidnapped by Noble Johnson & Co. until she and Jack Driscoll took their non-matrimonial plunge. I haven't yet dusted off my VHS copy of the movie in order to track the history of the shoes just yet, but I'm guessing they came off earlier during her date with Kong than later. Just wondering whether to leave 'em on the model figure or not.

BTW, on the subject of scale: the figure of Kong measures about 10" in total, and La Darrow is about 2 - 1/2" tall. In 1/25 scale that would make the life-size girl about 5' 2" tall, and Kong, almost 21' in height. If you'd rather have Kong be 60' tall, then the scale is 1/40, but that would saddle him with an 8' girlfriend.

The simple answer is that Kong's height changed a lot throughout the film. I think that the figures in the kit accurately reflect the relative sizes of their film counterparts _in their scenes together. _So what size is the model? I say - let's just call it "box scale". Then we can all sit back in front of the clubhouse TV, relax with somebody's copy of _King Kong_, and start looking at Ann Darrow's shoes.


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## Aurora-brat (Oct 23, 2002)

Hey Mark, thanks for bringing the topic back on track. 

With regard to her shoes, my guess is that the kit represents her and Kong just after their first meeting, as her dress shows no sign of any wear and tear. So that is how I chose to represent her, with her shoes still on. 

As far as scale is concerned, I like calling it 1/25 as it apeals to my need to have my models in or close to established scales. And a 21' tall Kong is fine by me. 

Oh, and for the record, I just painted Ann last night and went with a Polly S color called "Doped Linen" for her dress, a very pale yellow-sh white. I like it and think it works fine with her skin and hair colors.

Having seen your work on other classic Aurora kits, I really look forward to seeing your take on Kong. 

Regards,

Tory


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

Didn't the natives kidnap her at night when she was in her..nighty? Would she have WORN shoes?


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## scotpens (Sep 6, 2003)

Y3a said:


> Didn't the natives kidnap her at night when she was in her..nighty? Would she have WORN shoes?


Exqueeze me, but have you actually SEEN the original film? It's EVENING when Ann is kidnapped, and she is standing on deck. She's not in bed or geting ready for bed. And she's definitely wearing a DRESS. And shoes.


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## BEBruns (Apr 30, 2003)

Mark McGovern[font=Book Antiqua said:


> The Aurora/PL version of Ann Darrow was sculpted with her shoes on. My photo references don't show how long they actually stayed on Fay Wray's dainty tootsies in the film, from the time she was kidnapped by Noble Johnson & Co. until she and Jack Driscoll took their non-matrimonial plunge. I haven't yet dusted off my VHS copy of the movie in order to track the history of the shoes just yet, but I'm guessing they came off earlier during her date with Kong than later. Just wondering whether to leave 'em on the model figure or not.[/font]


I just checked out the DVD. Unfortunately, it looks like she loses her shoes before they take her out to the sacrificial altar. As they're taking her out the big gates, it looks like she's in her bare feet already.


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## Mark McGovern (Apr 25, 1999)

Aurora-brat said:


> Oh, and for the record, I just painted Ann last night and went with a Polly S color called "Doped Linen" for her dress, a very pale yellow-sh white. I like it and think it works fine with her skin and hair colors.
> 
> Having seen your work on other classic Aurora kits, I really look forward to seeing your take on Kong. Regards, Tory


Of course, where B & W photography is concerned, what the original colors were that the gray tones represent is anybody's guess. But I'm with you, Tory, in thinking that Ms. Darrow's dress might have an off-white, which is often favored for tropical wear. But whatever floats yer boat...

Thanks for the nice words about my other stuff. At a show last year, someone came up and asked whether the Bride of Frankenstein sitting on the contest table was mine. I said yeah, how did you know (considering that I hadn't even posted photos of the model in my PLBB album at that time). The guy said he recognised my style. My _style? _There's a style? I didn't know anything about no style...

There's so much interest in King Kong right now, I think we should add him as a category to the PLBB contest. We could grandfather the start date back to December.




Y3a said:


> Didn't the natives kidnap her at night when she was in her..nighty?


 No, but that would have been more fun. On the other hand, Kong made up for that oversight, did he not? :devil: 




BEBruns said:


> I just checked out the DVD. Unfortunately, it looks like she loses her shoes before they take her out to the sacrificial altar.


 Thanks, BB, that's the info I was looking for (I'm getting too old to hunker down and dig through my vid pile anymore - plastic modeling is a younger man's game!). I've said it before and I'll say it again: in plastic modeling, ANAL PAYS!!!


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Mark McGovern said:


> ANAL PAYS!!!


 Wasn't that point brought up to Elizabeth Shue in _Leaving Las Vegas_? :freak:


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## Aurora-brat (Oct 23, 2002)

*I finally finished my King Kong...*

And though some of you might like to see what color I came up with for Ann's dress.

I've also posted photos of the whole model in my gallery as well.

Enjoy

http://photos.hobbytalk.com/showphoto.php/photo/9387/cat/500/ppuser/10650


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## Mitchellmania (Feb 14, 2002)

Aurora-brat said:


> And though some of you might like to see what color I came up with for Ann's dress.
> 
> I've also posted photos of the whole model in my gallery as well.
> 
> ...


Looks great!!


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## Mitchellmania (Feb 14, 2002)

Here's what I chose for the dress color:


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

I'm not sure what color dress Ann Darrow wore but I'm sure of one thing: it had a filmy transparency to it and showed off her beauty to a greater than usual degree.


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## the Dabbler (Feb 17, 2005)

"Showed off her 'beauty', " huh? That's a new term for it. :devil: 
Dabbler


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

Where's he lookin'?


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## beck (Oct 22, 2003)

great lookin' models guys ! 
i would have said "beauties " .
hb


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## Aurora-brat (Oct 23, 2002)

Mitchellmania said:


> Looks great!!


Thanks!

As does yours. 

Tory


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

the Dabbler said:


> "Showed off her 'beauty', " huh? That's a new term for it. :devil:
> Dabbler


According to the slang dictionary I have, that is, in fact, a very old term for it, ca. (IIRC) 1700s. :thumbsup:


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## the Dabbler (Feb 17, 2005)

Not being that old, I shall bow to your senior knowledge !! :lol: 
Dabbler


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Yea, verily, thou hast chosen a wise pathe!


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## the Dabbler (Feb 17, 2005)

Is that Warner Pathe' ? I'm more of a Universal Studios man myself ! :tongue:


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## XactoHazzard (May 20, 2003)

I always thought of her Jungle dress as a light rose color with dark buttons.

The "Beauty/Beast" dress is absolutely my favorite part about the pre Kong build up... WOW Fay, fog lights are on.

Travis


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## beck (Oct 22, 2003)

i noticed that too Travis . esp . with the remastered version . 
hb


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

beck said:


> i noticed that too Travis . esp . with the remastered version .
> hb


I can't wait for the HD version.


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## Mitchellmania (Feb 14, 2002)

Working with Photoshop I transfer many color photos to gray scale. If her
dress were red, it would look dark grey of black. It would have to be a light
blue or green, tan or another light color. Here undergarments are lighter, most likely white.


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