# Grid lines part 2



## mach7 (Mar 25, 2002)

I don't want to start a big flame session, but as I build my big PL TOS Enterprise the grid lines are grating on me.

First, I'm not fundamentally opposed to them, I just think they are
WAY to big on the kit.

I've painted them with Mr surfacer twice, sanding in between. Primed with auto scratch filling primer, sanding in between. Now I have one coat of Tamiya grey on top and the damn things STILL look out of scale.

Now I've heard that R2 will do some retooling on the second run. I wonder if we can talk them into getting rid of them.

As I understand it, it should not be too difficult. just grind them away.

If they did this I would gladly buy another kit or two. 

Any thoughts?


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## kdaracal (Jan 24, 2009)

mach7 said:


> I don't want to start a big flame session, but as I build my big PL TOS Enterprise the grid lines are grating on me.
> 
> First, I'm not fundamentally opposed to them, I just think they are
> WAY to big on the kit.
> ...


Retooling? This is news to me, but I like it. Yea, I agree with you. Just a shame, is all. No flame here. Just a small shame in an otherwise wonderful kit.


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## mach7 (Mar 25, 2002)

From the Feb 20 R2 Blog:

The most well-known is the problem with bent or warped shafts on the fan blade dome (part #140). For people building their kits without lights, this shouldn’t be a huge concern. We have replacement parts available for anyone that runs into this problem. We had the tooling modified to fix this problem as soon as we heard about it. So future production of the kit should not have the same concern.

I thought I read that they were doing a little more tweaking of the kit. I just can't find where.


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## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

Correct me if I'm wrong but I did get the sense that R2 as well would have liked the gridlines finer in size but simply couldn't delay the kit any longer. Still I don't foresee them retooling this kit too much for quite some time yet.


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## J_Indy (Jan 28, 2013)

Hey - I LOVE the gridlines!! It will make it much easier for me to Mia-Wreck-i it. 

But seriously - they may have just fixed some production errors. Retooling seems a bit much and I may have read too much into what they planned to do. 

I bought some Aves Epoxy to fill in the lines. Going to experiment on some scrap plastic since I never used it before.


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## Proper2 (Dec 8, 2010)

A few months back I remember reading from someone at Round 2 that the grid lines were there to stay. This was stated rather emphatically.


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## J_Indy (Jan 28, 2013)

Actually, I don't mind the gridlines so much on the model because I plan to leave some marks using a pin poked into the epoxy before it hardens at the intersections of the top saucer lines. Then using a pencil and something as simple as a nail and string, I can make a compass to draw fine lines, using the small indentations as location guides. Touching up any pinhole marks after should be relatively easy.


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## mach7 (Mar 25, 2002)

Warped9 said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong but I did get the sense that R2 as well would have liked the gridlines finer in size but simply couldn't delay the kit any longer. Still I don't foresee them retooling this kit too much for quite some time yet.


Your probably right, but a guy can hope.


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## Zombie_61 (Apr 21, 2004)

J_Indy said:


> ...I bought some Aves Epoxy to fill in the lines. Going to experiment on some scrap plastic since I never used it before.


Assuming you're referring to Aves Apoxie Sculpt, here are a few tips I've learned through trial and error:

1) Be sure to mix _equal_ quantities of parts A and B, or at least as equal as you can guesstimate, and mix them _thoroughly_.

2) After you've mixed them, let them sit for 10-15 minutes. Otherwise, the putty tends to stick to your fingers and/or sculpting tools.

3) You can use tap water to smooth the sculpted putty if necessary. A little water goes a long way, and too much can turn your putty into a gooey mess.

4) In my experience, if you let the putty cure fully it will be harder than the surrounding styrene, which can make seamless blending difficult. I usually check it after 7 or 8 hours and sand it then. However, I haven't seen anyone else mention this, so it might simply be something I'm doing wrong.

Good luck, have fun, and be sure to post photos!


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## Captain Han Solo (Apr 5, 2002)

As someone who opposed the grid lines and don't care what the reason for including them was /is, They don't bother me...at all.

The kit is a really fun build and falls together pretty much by itself. I don't think they(Round 2)would waste the money on getting rid of them...now.

Perhaps in a future run...Now? No.


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## kevin123 (Mar 14, 2013)

*Grid pilot vs. production version*

Hello, I am new to these forums but am building two 1/350 Enterprises concurrently. One is the 2nd Pilot version and one is the regular production version. I have to say the production version I find pretty acceptable with grids, it helps to define the "rust ring" and as long as you don't heavily shade or weather them they look OK. You can also make the argument the studio model pencil lines were intended to represent actual panel lines. However, if you are doing the pilot version removal is pretty much mandatory as the hull on these was smooth. I got both saucer halves filled, sanded and primered on the pilot version to my complete satisfaction --but no lie--it was a long, tedious, labor intense process and it seemed like it would be less work that it actually turned out to be. But since most people will no doubt choose to build the production version, I can see why they would leave the grids on in future releases.


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## falcondesigns (Oct 30, 2002)

Really,this crap again!


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## crowe-t (Jul 30, 2010)

kevin123 said:


> I got both saucer halves filled, sanded and primered on the pilot version to my complete satisfaction --but no lie--it was a long, tedious, labor intense process and it seemed like it would be less work that it actually turned out to be.


Can you post a picture of your Pilot saucer? I'd like to see how it came out with the grid lines filled. 

BTW, what did you use to fill the grid lines?


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## jbond (Aug 29, 2002)

I'm doing a pilot version and I'm looking forward to seeing it with the grid lines!  I saw someone doing a kind of paneled, "aged" look similar to an aircraft and I really liked the look. Mine will be a pilot ship just before the "refit" to the production version, after a lot of space wear and tear (wasn't the Enterprise already supposed to be 10 years old by the time Kirk took command?).


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## RossW (Jan 12, 2000)

crowe-t said:


> Can you post a picture of your Pilot saucer? I'd like to see how it came out with the grid lines filled.
> 
> BTW, what did you use to fill the grid lines?


I tried the Mr Surfacer route and Bondo, but wasn't happy with the results (and Bondo filled up the ports and made the plastic around the windows 'gooey'). What has worked beautifully for me is artist acrylic modeling paste (sharp). I spread it over the grid lines with my finger and it sands really well. Took a couple of applications to fully cover them, but now it looks great.


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## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

If it performs as advertised I plan to use Perfect Plastic Putty to fill the gridlines.


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## J_Indy (Jan 28, 2013)

Zombie_61 said:


> Assuming you're referring to Aves Apoxie Sculpt, here are a few tips I've learned through trial and error:
> 
> 1) Be sure to mix _equal_ quantities of parts A and B, or at least as equal as you can guesstimate, and mix them _thoroughly_.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the tips on the epoxy! 

I was a bit concerned about that problem. I used a bit to fill in some seam gaps in a TOS phaser I put together to test and after about 2 or 3 hrs started to do some rough sanding just to see.

Yup - when this stuff hardens fully, it's gonna be like sanding a rock. 

Maybe I will try some of the acrylic paste RossW mentioned....


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## scifiguy67 (Jan 18, 2011)

I'm thinking about using super glue gel on both my pilot versions it sands well & it's cheap


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## Zombie_61 (Apr 21, 2004)

J_Indy said:


> Thanks for the tips on the epoxy!


You're very welcome. I'm always willing to share what little information I have. 



J_Indy said:


> Maybe I will try some of the acrylic paste RossW mentioned....


I don't have the kit but, based on the online photos I've seen, I think Aves might be overkill for filling the gridlines anyway. I think any good modeling putty would do the job just as well, and would probably be easier to sand.


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## RossW (Jan 12, 2000)

The problem with most putties (including Bondo) is that you need to keep it 'wet' to make it spreadable - the stuff starts to dry pretty quick when exposed to air. You can add some Testors liquid cement to keep it pliable for longer, but then that will wreck the surface if you've primered already. The artist modelling paste works really well - I'll see if I can post some pictures of my primary hull pieces this weekend.


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## RossW (Jan 12, 2000)

I had tried the Liquitex one but wet sanding tended to pull off all the putty; this stuff didn't have that problem and worked really well:










The result:


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

RossW said:


> I had tried the Liquitex one but wet sanding tended to pull off all the putty; this stuff didn't have that problem and worked really well:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Is it just my computer, or are those pictures MIGHTY small?


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## Gary7 (Jan 2, 2013)

Chrisisall said:


> Is it just my computer, or are those pictures MIGHTY small?


I can't enlarge them, ether.


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## RossW (Jan 12, 2000)

Gary7 said:


> I can't enlarge them, ether.


They were supposed to be links to my Photobucket where you could see them actual size.

Let's try this again:


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

Oh yeah! That's GREAT!


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## Fozzie (May 25, 2009)

Great job. Really looks smooth!


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## RossW (Jan 12, 2000)

Thanks guys. I really agonized over filling them. I had hoped that with a few coats of primer that the lines would be less deep and wide, but what happened is that they didn't fill in consistently - some almost disappeared completely while others were still prominent.

In the end, although it will make putting on the decals harder, I think the smooth surface looks more like the ship I remember and see in my mind (which is why I filled in the circular bow port - it _was_ there, no doubt about it, but so faint that I couldn't justify in my head how there would be a huge unlit circle there).


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## J_Indy (Jan 28, 2013)

(In Khan's voice in TWOK - pointing to the Enterprise)

THERE SHE IS! There She Is....... 

-------------------------------------------------

The hull as she was and SHOULD be.....

imo


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## crowe-t (Jul 30, 2010)

RossW said:


> They were supposed to be links to my Photobucket where you could see them actual size.
> 
> Let's try this again:


The saucer looks great all smooth. This is how I remember the Enterprise looking.

Will you be adding on a pencilled grid?


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## TrekFX (Apr 15, 2004)

RossW said:


> Thanks guys. I really agonized over filling them. I had hoped that with a few coats of primer that the lines would be less deep and wide, but what happened is that they didn't fill in consistently - some almost disappeared completely while others were still prominent.
> 
> In the end, although it will make putting on the decals harder, I think the smooth surface looks more like the ship I remember and see in my mind (which is why I filled in the circular bow port - it _was_ there, no doubt about it, but so faint that I couldn't justify in my head how there would be a huge unlit circle there).


How's the shrinkage with the modelling paste? Please keep us posted!

I love catalyzed filler for its dimensional stability, but sometimes I just wanna get to it without all the mixing and associated hoopla. The paste probably smells nicer too.

For that front port, you could always explain it away as, hmmm... how about the forward-position deployable (retracted) manned observation/research turret. AKA crow's nest.


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## PoORrich (Mar 14, 2013)

RossW,

Magnificent work! Thanks for Pioneering the way for the "Purists" among us who strongly prefer the broadcast original film miniature vs. the "Miarecki re-interpretation" version. As an early 1701 Club member, I was thrilled with every e-mail update and saved each in personally created PDF files (all of which were lost when my computer "lobotomized" itself!). The sole disappointment was learning the controversial grid lines were going to be on the final product. This is not meant to go into "flamer" territory about the Restoration. I have great respect for the much improved Sensor Dish and Nacelle Bussards; like many others, I just wish he had kept the continuity of the original upper Saucer Section for the entire Vessel. Now, when it comes to tackling this incredible kit, there's a guideline how to properly fix this problem. Kudos for a job well done!


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## RossW (Jan 12, 2000)

PoORrich said:


> RossW,
> 
> Magnificent work! Thanks for Pioneering the way for the "Purists" among us who strongly prefer the broadcast original film miniature vs. the "Miarecki re-interpretation" version. As an early 1701 Club member, I was thrilled with every e-mail update and saved each in personally created PDF files (all of which were lost when my computer "lobotomized" itself!). The sole disappointment was learning the controversial grid lines were going to be on the final product. This is not meant to go into "flamer" territory about the Restoration. I have great respect for the much improved Sensor Dish and Nacelle Bussards; like many others, I just wish he had kept the continuity of the original upper Saucer Section for the entire Vessel. Now, when it comes to tackling this incredible kit, there's a guideline how to properly fix this problem. Kudos for a job well done!


Thanks for the compliments, but the grid lines on this kit have nothing to do with the Smithsonian restoration. The PL team felt they should be there and I have no complaints about that. It was a personal choice for me but in no way should be construed as a slight against PL or this kit.


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## RossW (Jan 12, 2000)

TrekFX said:


> How's the shrinkage with the modelling paste? Please keep us posted!
> 
> I love catalyzed filler for its dimensional stability, but sometimes I just wanna get to it without all the mixing and associated hoopla. The paste probably smells nicer too.
> 
> For that front port, you could always explain it away as, hmmm... how about the forward-position deployable (retracted) manned observation/research turret. AKA crow's nest.


That's the beauty of this stuff - no shrinkage. Plus, I can apply it with my finger over the grid lines without it hardening as fast as traditional model putty or Bondo. The smell is similar to acrylic paint so no worries there, either.

I'm still a bit on the fence about the front port. I could open it up again and just box around it so no light from the front 3 ports light it up, but then again why would it be so dark compared to the rectangular ones?

And yes, I will add a pencilled grid to the topside. Doing the underside will be a lot trickier but I'll give it a go. Luckily, PL kindly supplied us with 2 sensor domes so I can use one for drawing the circles with my compass.


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## TrekFX (Apr 15, 2004)

RossW said:


> That's the beauty of this stuff - no shrinkage. Plus, I can apply it with my finger over the grid lines without it hardening as fast as traditional model putty or Bondo. The smell is similar to acrylic paint so no worries there, either.


Seriously, no shrinkage? Even after full dry-out? That's very uncharacteristic of a solvent-based product (water/associated water-soluables in this case?) Verrrry intriguing.

I sort of like that front port, just for the "something different" aspect. In the more detailed behind-the-scenes glamour pictures, it does show up more and it has a "whatzit" quality to it, one more interesting detail. It's very hard to see at all in final on-screen sequences though.


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## PixelMagic (Aug 25, 2004)

RossW, where did you purchase this paste for your gridline filler?


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## Nektu (Aug 15, 2001)

I am interested in knowing where to get it, too. I have used Liquitex stuff on figures, and small seams for years, but nothing this crazy. You said you tried it already, and it came up? Was it the 'light' filler... they do have two versions of the 'Modeling Paste'. K


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## Tiberious (Nov 20, 2001)

Count me in on that stuff, no joy at Michaels and no Blick locally either. A good weapon for the arsenal Gridlines notwithstanding.


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## RossW (Jan 12, 2000)

PixelMagic said:


> RossW, where did you purchase this paste for your gridline filler?


From a local arts supply store here in Toronto (Woolfits). Michael's should carry the Liquitex and Golden stuff.

EDIT: Can't seem to find the stuff listed anywhere else except at Woolfits here in Toronto and another art supply store in Calgary. I'd try the Liquitex or Golden Acrylics paste as it's readily available.


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## RossW (Jan 12, 2000)

Nektu said:


> I am interested in knowing where to get it, too. I have used Liquitex stuff on figures, and small seams for years, but nothing this crazy. You said you tried it already, and it came up? Was it the 'light' filler... they do have two versions of the 'Modeling Paste'. K


I think I have the Liquitex heavy body stuff. By 'pull up' I mean that as you wet sand it it seems to soften and stuff down in the groove ends up disappearing. This seemed to work better, maybe because it's got some resin in it to keep it's shape (hence the 'sharp').


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## RossW (Jan 12, 2000)

TrekFX said:


> Seriously, no shrinkage? Even after full dry-out? That's very uncharacteristic of a solvent-based product (water/associated water-soluables in this case?) Verrrry intriguing.
> 
> I sort of like that front port, just for the "something different" aspect. In the more detailed behind-the-scenes glamour pictures, it does show up more and it has a "whatzit" quality to it, one more interesting detail. It's very hard to see at all in final on-screen sequences though.


No shrinkage for the size at play here. If you were to use it on a larger area, maybe, but with the resin additive it is meant to be used on canvases by artists who'd not appreciate shrinkage either.

I can't believe I haven't made a Seinfeld joke here yet with all this talk about shrinkage ...


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## TrekFX (Apr 15, 2004)

I've been trying VERY hard to avoid such comments.:wave:

I've been good!


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## Robman007 (Jan 23, 2013)

I don't see what the fuss is about the "grid line" stuff....besides, out of all the pictures of models done by "purists" they are all 101% inaccurate as it is. Why?...
.
.....every single purist details his port side of the ship. It's just as inaccurate as heavy grid lines (which are inaccurate, but light gridelines are not. They are there..visible on screen, especially the blu ray versions of the original fx).

To each his own. It's not that big a deal. I don't care if they are on the model or not. I don't mind them as long as they are not as obnoxious as the Revell kit.


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## Tiberious (Nov 20, 2001)

No need to go there again, but learning of another good filling tool is invaluable information! Besides my MR has no grid so having a grid on my model gives me choices.


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## Robman007 (Jan 23, 2013)

Tiberious said:


> No need to go there again, but learning of another good filling tool is invaluable information! Besides my MR has no grid so having a grid on my model gives me choices.


Word. Gotta bring that one over when the old man and I finish our kits so we can check out the differences. We did fix up the bulb sections of the warp drive. Looks really nice now.


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## mach7 (Mar 25, 2002)

Robman007 said:


> I don't see what the fuss is about the "grid line" stuff....besides, out of all the pictures of models done by "purists" they are all 101% inaccurate as it is. Why?...
> .
> .....every single purist details his port side of the ship. It's just as inaccurate as heavy grid lines (which are inaccurate, but light gridelines are not. They are there..visible on screen, especially the blu ray versions of the original fx).
> 
> To each his own. It's not that big a deal. I don't care if they are on the model or not. I don't mind them as long as they are not as obnoxious as the Revell kit.


It's not the gridlines themselves that I object to, It's how out of scale they are.

I Don't want to get rid of them just knock them down to something close to what they were meant to represent.

Other than the the grid lines being too big, so far this kit is a great kit.


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## mach7 (Mar 25, 2002)

Here is where I'm at now.

one coat of Mr.surfacer, sanded, two coats of filling auto primer, sanded, and two coats of Tamiya IJN grey.


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

mach7 said:


> I don't want to start a big flame session, but as I build my big PL TOS Enterprise the grid lines are grating on me.
> 
> First, I'm not fundamentally opposed to them, I just think they are
> WAY to big on the kit.
> ...





A lot of people either like or don't mind them though even if they could have been finer. I doubt they'll retool them.


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## Tiberious (Nov 20, 2001)

The biggest problem with lessening them is that it's nearly impossible to get them even, as I'm sure you're finding out Mach7. It looks great so far but man I don't envy you that task!

Best of luck on it though!

Tib


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## mach7 (Mar 25, 2002)

Yup, if I build another I'll just fill them completely.


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## RossW (Jan 12, 2000)

Tiberious said:


> The biggest problem with lessening them is that it's nearly impossible to get them even, as I'm sure you're finding out Mach7. It looks great so far but man I don't envy you that task!
> 
> Best of luck on it though!
> 
> Tib


That's the problem I had, too. I wanted to do what Mach7 said but I ended up filling some lines completely - it didn't look right so I went all in. Glad I did, because when I look at those hull pieces it just screams TOS E (again, to my mind).


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## TrekFX (Apr 15, 2004)

So...

While we're in the arts-and-crafts realm with the modeling paste, has anyone tried acrylic gesso as a poor-man's Mr Surfacer/high-build primer substitute?


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## Sparky (Feb 21, 2004)

RossW said:


> That's the problem I had, too. I wanted to do what Mach7 said but I ended up filling some lines completely - it didn't look right so I went all in. Glad I did, because when I look at those hull pieces it just screams TOS E (again, to my mind).


I really am glad that I saw the results of your efforts to remove the gridlines. I have up until now firmly been in the "grid lines were originally intended to be there what's the fuss" camp regarding this kit. 

Though I really liked the engineering hull since I received my kit something about the saucer sections just didn't seem right. I initially thought the grid lines were 'ok'. Seeing your 'de-grided" saucers just changed that. The grid lines were what was bothering me and I didn't even realize it. Your saucers look like what I guess I see in my minds eye.

While I still think in principal grid lines are ok, these are just too wide. Heavy primer will only make things worse as the trenches will be even proportionally wider compared to their depth and uneven. I just ordered 2 tubes of that Deluxe Perfect Putty to try. Geez, I can't believe I am going fill all these grid lines but I gotta now .


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## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

Sparky said:


> I just ordered 2 tubes of that Deluxe Perfect Putty to try. Geez, I can't believe I am going fill all these grid lines but I gotta now .


Tell you guys what. I've got an unopened tube of the Perfect Putty in my stash. I'm going to scribe some grid lines on a piece of styrene sheet and try it out filling them in. I'll let you know how it goes.


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

Trekkriffic said:


> Tell you guys what. I've got an unopened tube of the Perfect Putty in my stash. I'm going to scribe some grid lines on a piece of styrene sheet and try it out filling them in. I'll let you know how it goes.


Trekkriffic; always giving back.:thumbsup:


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## Sparky (Feb 21, 2004)

Trekkriffic said:


> Tell you guys what. I've got an unopened tube of the Perfect Putty in my stash. I'm going to scribe some grid lines on a piece of styrene sheet and try it out filling them in. I'll let you know how it goes.


That would be great. A Youtube promotion video show you can even file it with a coarse file after it dries and I guess not yank it out. Looks like good stuff but will be curious about your test.


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

Sparky said:


> That would be great. A Youtube promotion video show you can even file it with a coarse file after it dries and I guess not yank it out. Looks like good stuff but will be curious about your test.


Why not just glue in styrene half round rods of the proper size?


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## Sparky (Feb 21, 2004)

Chrisisall said:


> Why not just glue in styrene half round rods of the proper size?


Actually considered that but can you get styrene rods that small of a diameter ? Maybe you can.


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

Sparky said:


> Actually considered that but can you get styrene rods that small of a diameter ? Maybe you can.


I just googled & this came up. 
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXRC92&P=FR
Probably not the right size, but it looks like you can get nearly any size you need...


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

Sparky said:


> Actually considered that but can you get styrene rods that small of a diameter ? Maybe you can.


There's the old "stretch-it-over-a-candle" trick ...


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## RossW (Jan 12, 2000)

Doing the ring grid lines would be tough with the styrene rod glue idea, though.


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## Sparky (Feb 21, 2004)

SteveR said:


> There's the old "stretch-it-over-a-candle" trick ...


I am picturing something like taffy pulling. Is it possible to get uniformity doing this? Never heard of this one before. Got to admit filling the grid lines with primarily with good 'ol styrene rod is the most attractive approach.


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

RossW said:


> Doing the ring grid lines would be tough with the styrene rod glue idea, though.


Still, taking out all the straight ones quickly wouldn't be worth nothing...


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## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

Chrisisall said:


> Still, taking out all the straight ones quickly wouldn't be worth nothing...


Would be tough to get uniform filling I would think. Might be more trouble than it's worth if you have to go back and putty any divots anyway.


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

Sparky said:


> I am picturing something like taffy pulling. Is it possible to get uniformity doing this? Never heard of this one before. Got to admit filling the grid lines with primarily with good 'ol styrene rod is the most attractive approach.


Check out any old Tamiya armour instruction sheet -- it's the old way of making antennas: "stretched sprue."

There's always microballoons ...


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

Trekkriffic said:


> Would be tough to get uniform filling I would think. Might be more trouble than it's worth if you have to go back and putty any divots anyway.


You may be right; I don't have one in front of me so I was just throwing out the idea.


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## RossW (Jan 12, 2000)

Sparky said:


> I really am glad that I saw the results of your efforts to remove the gridlines. I have up until now firmly been in the "grid lines were originally intended to be there what's the fuss" camp regarding this kit.
> 
> Though I really liked the engineering hull since I received my kit something about the saucer sections just didn't seem right. I initially thought the grid lines were 'ok'. Seeing your 'de-grided" saucers just changed that. The grid lines were what was bothering me and I didn't even realize it. Your saucers look like what I guess I see in my minds eye.
> 
> While I still think in principal grid lines are ok, these are just too wide. Heavy primer will only make things worse as the trenches will be even proportionally wider compared to their depth and uneven. I just ordered 2 tubes of that Deluxe Perfect Putty to try. Geez, I can't believe I am going fill all these grid lines but I gotta now .


Great minds think alike  I was all set to leave the grid lines as-is or just knock them down a bit with some primer but after filling them it's like my mind did a Charlie Brown - "THAT'S IT!" Unlike good 'ole Charlie Brown, I didn't have to give Lucy 5 cents to learn that, just a few hours of sanding.


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## J_Indy (Jan 28, 2013)

I sure wish that they had supplied the gridlines as decals so they were optional.

From the way they were done on the original prop, that would actually have been closer to authentic.


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## kdaracal (Jan 24, 2009)

I wonder if the aftermarket folks could come up with a styrene strip that would lay in the grooves? Take a reverse cast of the line shape, then glue the plastic down to fill the depth, making them less of a headache to putty and sand? Package the thin strips like Plastruct? or Evergreen?

http://www.plastruct.com/pages/OnlineProductDetail.lasso?-op='eq'&CCode=MRT-125#ProductDetails


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## Larva (Jun 8, 2005)

A heavier gauge monofilament might be a relatively easy and uniform solution.


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## falcondesigns (Oct 30, 2002)

kdaracal said:


> I wonder if the aftermarket folks could come up with a styrene strip that would lay in the grooves? Take a reverse cast of the line shape, then glue the plastic down to fill the depth, making them less of a headache to putty and sand? Package the thin strips like Plastruct? or Evergreen?
> 
> http://www.plastruct.com/pages/OnlineProductDetail.lasso?-op='eq'&CCode=MRT-125#ProductDetails


Evergreen is your friend....


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Trekkriffic said:


> If it performs as advertised I plan to use Perfect Plastic Putty to fill the gridlines.


Let us know how it works--I'd be interested in that as well! :thumbsup:


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## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

PerfesserCoffee said:


> Let us know how it works--I'd be interested in that as well! :thumbsup:


Test is in progress. I scribed several cross-hatched lines of varying depths into a piece of scrap .060 styrene and applied the putty with a spatula tool. It went on like butter and I washed the tool off with water. It gave off no odor that I could detect. Says it's fast drying. I'll check in ten minutes and see how dry it is. May take a little longer than that but we'll see. I'm taking pics I'll post later after sanding.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Trekkriffic said:


> Test is in progress. I scribed several cross-hatched lines of varying depths into a piece of scrap .060 styrene and applied the putty with a spatula tool. It went on like butter and I washed the tool off with water. It gave off no odor that I could detect. Says it's fast drying. I'll check in ten minutes and see how dry it is. May take a little longer than that but we'll see. I'm taking pics I'll post later after sanding.


Excellent!
:thumbsup:


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## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

PerfesserCoffee said:


> Excellent!
> :thumbsup:


Well after 15 minutes it was about 70% dry. I went to COSTCO and came back an hour or so later and it seems 100% dry.


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## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

So here are the photos of my Perfect Plastic Putty test with the results...

First thing was to scribe lines in styrene sheet. These are at least as deep, if not deeper, than the lines on the 1/350 saucer:










The putty comes with an applicator tip but all I did was squeeze a little out onto my spatula and spread it on. 
It has the consistency of yogurt and is odorless:










Here it is an hour later after about 10 minutes of sanding with 150, 280, 320, 400, and 600 grit sanding films. 
I didn't get it absolutely smooth around the edges since this was just a test and I was working fast. 
I mostly concentrated on the gridlines in the center:








\

After priming with Tamiya grey Fine Surface Primer:










You can see where with only minimal effort I was able to get a smooth surface with no visible lines in the center. Really, I was quite impressed. 
I would imagine with a little more elbow grease to get down to where you could see the outlines of the gridlines without leaving any surrounding putty residue and with a few more coats of primer you could get a perfectly smooth saucer with only one application of putty. 
Of course, your results may vary if you are challenged when it comes to filling and sanding but I think most of us here are pretty adept at that skill.

Overall I give Perfect Plastic Putty...

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

*This public service brought to you by Trekkriffic.*

Thanks, I gots some lines in my 22" refit I can use that on...


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## TrekFX (Apr 15, 2004)

If you could, (and if you are gonna just set it aside now) check in a day and then another day or so and let us know if there's any residual shrinkage... just to get an idea of when it's safe to call dimensionally-stable.

I'm experimenting with Liquitex modeling paste, the budget one in the "Basics" tube. The results seem similar.

One thing I noticed about the grid lines are that they are more like a "V" groove rather than a square-bottom channel with two vertical walls to help hold stuff in. Fillers with less "bite" may be more prone to being pulled out of the shallow grooves while sanding.


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## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

TrekFX said:


> If you could, (and if you are gonna just set it aside now) check in a day and then another day or so and let us know if there's any residual shrinkage... just to get an idea of when it's safe to call dimensionally-stable.
> 
> I'm experimenting with Liquitex modeling paste, the budget one in the "Basics" tube. The results seem similar.
> 
> One thing I noticed about the grid lines are that they are more like a "V" groove rather than a square-bottom channel with two vertical walls to help hold stuff in. Fillers with less "bite" may be more prone to being pulled out of the shallow grooves while sanding.


No problem. I'll let you guys know if I see any shrinkage come Sunday.

Note on availability...
I bought this tube from my local hobby store but it can be purchased online thru a variety of resellers, most of them in the UK. 
Amazon sells it but is currently out of stock. You can find it on eBay priced in British pounds. 

I did find this US reseller showing a price for a 40ml tube of $6.29 which is about 2 dollars less than I bought it for:
http://rcbuyerswarehouse.com/perfectplasticputty40ml.aspx

So, you can see, It's not the easiest thing to come by here is the States so if you happen to find it, get it. You won't be sorry!


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## Sparky (Feb 21, 2004)

As I have a couple of tubes of Perfect Plastic Putty on order, I am glad to hear the good results thus far.  I noted the use of the putty with the Pin Point applicators: 



 These applicators look like a great way to get the putty into the gridlines so I bought a set from an Ebay seller. Can't wait to try this setup to fill them grids :thumbsup:.


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## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

TrekFX said:


> If you could, (and if you are gonna just set it aside now) check in a day and then another day or so and let us know if there's any residual shrinkage... just to get an idea of when it's safe to call dimensionally-stable.


Checked this morning and no shrinkage evident.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Trekkriffic said:


> Checked this morning and no shrinkage evident.


Great test--and results! Thanks for letting us know the details and results. :thumbsup:

One question I have: how hard is it once it's dried?


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## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

PerfesserCoffee said:


> Great test--and results! Thanks for letting us know the details and results. :thumbsup:
> 
> One question I have: how hard is it once it's dried?


It's about the same hardness as Tamiya Basic polyester putty though not as hard as AVES can get. It has excellent adhesion; better than the Basic I think. I've flexed the styrene sheet pretty aggresively and it doesn't crack.


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## J_Indy (Jan 28, 2013)

I just tried some AVES for a seam on an old unbuilt 22" TOS monstrosity I dug up out of near-oblivion. 

It's not bad, and as long as you wet it down right after you apply it, you can flatten it out with your finger until it is pretty smooth, leaving only maybe a minor touch-up required.

But it would require patience doing it in small sections at a time - so if the plastic or acrylic stuff is faster, the time savings may be worth it.

Does acrylic have trouble sticking to plastic?


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Trekkriffic said:


> It's about the same hardness as Tamiya Basic polyester putty though not as hard as AVES can get. It has excellent adhesion; better than the Basic I think. I've flexed the styrene sheet pretty aggresively and it doesn't crack.


Impressive, most impressive! :thumbsup:


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## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

PerfesserCoffee said:


> Impressive, most impressive! :thumbsup:


Today's Perfect Plastic Putty test update...


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## Rahn (Jun 2, 2009)

I have three tubes on the way from the UK.


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## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

*Today's Puttty Report...*


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## Sparky (Feb 21, 2004)

Received my ordered Deluxe Pinpoint Applications and Perfect Putty yesterday and tried filling a few grids late last night. The mid sized needle fits the model grid lines pretty well. Needle follows the grid line like a train on a track (sort of). Easy and very accurate way to get the putty exactly where you need it. Really happy I tried this. Much easier than expected and avoids applying excess putty.


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## RossW (Jan 12, 2000)

Sparky said:


> Received my ordered Deluxe Pinpoint Applications and Perfect Putty yesterday and tried filling a few grids late last night. The mid sized needle fits the model grid lines pretty well. Needle follows the grid line like a train on a track (sort of). Easy and very accurate way to get the putty exactly where you need it. Really happy I tried this. Much easier than expected and avoids applying excess putty.


Any chance you could post a photo of this set up?


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Trekkriffic said:


> *Today's Puttty Report...*


Good to hear! I just got my Perfect Putty in the mail yesterday afternoon. Going to give it a try on my MFM spaceship.


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## Sparky (Feb 21, 2004)

RossW said:


> Any chance you could post a photo of this set up?


I'll see about posting some photos tonight. 

.


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## Sparky (Feb 21, 2004)

Ok, this is my first attempt at uploading photos to this site. As mentioned I am using the mid size needle to apply the Perfect Putty. I lay a bead in the gridline, wipe down the beaded line with dry finger once, and then once with a wetted finger. I have done one sample grid line and show some grid lines that I filled last night. Seems to work pretty well for me.


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## crowe-t (Jul 30, 2010)

Sparky said:


> Ok, this is my first attempt at uploading photos to this site. As mentioned I am using the mid size needle to apply the Perfect Putty. I lay a bead in the gridline, wipe down the beaded line with dry finger once, and then once with a wetted finger. I have done one sample grid line and show some grid lines that I filled last night. Seems to work pretty well for me.


Nice work so far filling the grid lines. 

How is the Perfect Plastic Putty to use? Is it anything like Squadron putty?


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## Sparky (Feb 21, 2004)

crowe-t said:


> Nice work so far filling the grid lines.
> 
> How is the Perfect Plastic Putty to use? Is it anything like Squadron putty?


To be honest, I have traditionally hated the putty part of modeling until now. The Squadron and what was that other one? Oh yeah, Milliput. Didn't care for either one, both seemed awful at filling fine lines and seams. Both seems to dry way too fast while trying to apply. 

This perfect putty flows really nicely, it's almost odorless, and the pinpoint applicator is simply an excellent way to putty fine lines and it cleans up under running water fairly quickly. 

No lie, I'm starting to actually enjoy puttying for a change :thumbsup:.


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## Tiberious (Nov 20, 2001)

Where do you get that stuff (and syringe) does home depot carry it? Thanks fot the pix, looks great! I'll use it on my refit.

Tib


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## Sparky (Feb 21, 2004)

Tiberious said:


> Where do you get that stuff (and syringe) does home depot carry it? Thanks fot the pix, looks great! I'll use it on my refit.
> 
> Tib


Purchased both from Ebay sellers. The applicators were from a USA seller 'tollybarn' http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Deluxe-Pi...601?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item562add1209. He is the only one selling these on Ebay at least and he has one left listed for purchase (7.95 + ship). The Putty was ordered from a UK seller 'Model Hobbies'. 

Both sellers are very friendly and shipped really fast. I plan to order from both again.


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## Fernando Mureb (Nov 12, 2006)

In the US you have an authorized dealer online from which I already bought this putty. This is my first purchase in this site and the putty still is on the way.

Product............................Item Number..Price	
Perfect Plastic Putty 40ml......DLMBD44....$6.39 

Product............................Item Number..Price	
Pin Point Syringe Kit..............DLMAC8.....$7.50

http://www.horizonhobby.com/


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## mach7 (Mar 25, 2002)

Out of stock at Horizon, but I got a tube from the UK. $11.71 shipped.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Sparky said:


> Ok, this is my first attempt at uploading photos to this site. As mentioned I am using the mid size needle to apply the Perfect Putty. I lay a bead in the gridline, wipe down the beaded line with dry finger once, and then once with a wetted finger. I have done one sample grid line and show some grid lines that I filled last night. Seems to work pretty well for me.


Excellent! I'm wanting to reduce the grids without getting rid of them. This looks like the technique I want to use.:thumbsup:


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## Fernando Mureb (Nov 12, 2006)

mach7 said:


> Out of stock at Horizon, but I got a tube from the UK. $11.71 shipped.


Sorry to hear that.


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## RossW (Jan 12, 2000)

Sparky said:


> Ok, this is my first attempt at uploading photos to this site. As mentioned I am using the mid size needle to apply the Perfect Putty. I lay a bead in the gridline, wipe down the beaded line with dry finger once, and then once with a wetted finger. I have done one sample grid line and show some grid lines that I filled last night. Seems to work pretty well for me.


Fantastic! The artist modelling paste I used doesn't have an applicator (although I suppose I could have tried to use a syringe) so I had to smoosh it on with my finger (smoothing it out with a wet finger). Worked OK but extra sanding needed compared to your solution.


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## TrekFX (Apr 15, 2004)

I actually got pretty spoiled using air-powered syringes at work. I've been mulling over a cheap/easy DIY rig to give my airbrush compressor at home something else to do.

Syringes and accessories are available in "bulk" through most electronics-industry supply houses (ie HMC.) but the pedals/controllers are not cheap.


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## Fernando Mureb (Nov 12, 2006)

Sparky, please post some pictures when you already have the hull primed. Thanls!


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## Sparky (Feb 21, 2004)

PerfesserCoffee said:


> Excellent! I'm wanting to reduce the grids without getting rid of them. This looks like the technique I want to use.:thumbsup:


I am wondering though if it is not an all or nothing deal. I have decided to totally fill all the grid lines. Even with a syringe could one could make the partially filled grids lines fairly uniform? The syringe though does permit flow control so maybe with some practice.

I am torn on the idea of penciled grid lines. I can see them a number of times on the Season 3 blurays that I've been viewing but could be OK with leaving them off. Maybe a gridless TOS 350 E would be a nice contrast the the 350 Refit E when I have have them side by side one day. Just not sure yet.


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## Sparky (Feb 21, 2004)

Fernando Mureb said:


> Sparky, please post some pictures when you already have the hull primed. Thanls!


I will do that though I am not sure exactly when. I am pretty curious myself see how well the initial (and very quick and easy) putty application filled the grid lines.


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## Proper2 (Dec 8, 2010)

Etched grid lines! What are they good for? Absolutely nothin'!


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## Borz666 (May 17, 2004)

Ahhh say it again!!! uh!


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## Zombie_61 (Apr 21, 2004)

mach7 said:


> Out of stock at Horizon...


They probably had only one or two tubes in stock, and sold 'em both after you'se guys read this thread. Now they'll buy a case, and 10 of 'em will still be sitting on their shelf a year from now. :lol:


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## Fozzie (May 25, 2009)

About a month ago I stumbled across a single tube of Perfect Plastic Putty in my LHS. Had never seen it there before, nor since. I bought it though and, with all the talk here, decided to give it a go. My initial response is positive. Since it is so soft (unlike a two part putty like Aves), it is a bit easier to deal with in fill situations, and is quite easily smoothed out with a wet fingertip. It is also easy to apply with a syringe. I've only used it a little bit so far, but I am impressed.


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## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

So, while at lunch today, thought I'd mosey out to the garage and try my hand at filling in gridlines on the upper saucer with my tube of Perfect Plastic Putty...

Here are the implements of construction...


Using a syringe...


...I ran a bead of putty along the gridlines. In this case close was good enough...


Then I used my finger to smear the putty around making sure most of it ended up in the gridline...


I used a barely damp sponge (not too wet or you'll wipe off the putty in the gridlines) to wipe off any excess. I tried to work the sponge across the gridlines where there was fresher putty. This should make sanding easier...


I used a third of syringe to finish the top of the saucer; it took about an hour. Cleanup was easy with warm water from the tap:


Next I'll give her a good sanding before priming and we'll see what's what.


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

Look at it this way: if they'd made the kit perfect there'd be no challenge!


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## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

Chrisisall said:


> Look at it this way: if they'd made the kit perfect there'd be no challenge!


We'll see how much of a challenge but, so far, this is nothing like what I had to go thru to sand off the raised gridles on my old 18" kit. I must say, until you start handling the parts, you really have no appeciation for how impressive the size is. I have to say it's a real pleasure to work on something so big. I just get all giddy.


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

Trekkriffic said:


> I must say, until you start handling the parts, you really have no appeciation for how impressive the size is. I have to say it's a real pleasure to work on something so big. I just get all giddy.


I remember being that way with my huge Falcon back in '83...:thumbsup:


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## crowe-t (Jul 30, 2010)

Trekkriffic said:


> So, while at lunch today, thought I'd mosey out to the garage and try my hand at filling in gridlines on the upper saucer with my tube of Perfect Plastic Putty...
> 
> Here are the implements of construction...
> 
> ...


Does Perfect Plastic Putty work similar to Squadron Putty? Squadron Putty sort of melts into the styrene. 

Is Perfect Plastic Putty made for styrene? Is it smoother then Squadron?


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## Four Mad Men (Jan 26, 2004)

Back in stock at Horizon. Just ordered 2 tubes. I wasn't planning on filling my grid lines but with the water based putty I will try my hand at it.


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## J_Indy (Jan 28, 2013)

That looks great!

If there is no "George Costanza-ing" after it is thoroughly dry, that looks to be the best solution.


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## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

J_Indy said:


> That looks great!
> 
> If there is no "George Costanza-ing" after it is thoroughly dry, that looks to be the best solution.


7-1/2 hours and the putty is thoroughly dry with no signs of shrinkage. This is consistent with my earlier test results. Running my hand over the surface and it feels pretty smooth even before sanding. I plan on using a spray can of Duplicolor sandable scratch filling primer after sanding; Steve Neill raves about it on his blog. Tried to get some at Autozone but they didn't have any. They carry Duplicolor but not the scratch filling type; they had Rustoleum's in stock. Guess I'll have to keep looking.


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## davejames (Jul 18, 2009)

I just started putting my kit together as well. I think I'm going to leave the upper gridlines in (since they somehow seem a lot more subtle, and should be even more so after painting), and remove the lower ones. 

To me the lower ones just look _completely _wrong, and way out of scale. You might be able to make out some faint ones in extreme closeups, but the overall impression is of a smooth hull, so that's what I'm going with.


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## spawndude (Nov 28, 2007)

I've been interested in trying several of the "Deluxe Materials" products since I saw them advertised several months ago. Just take a look at their web site and you'll see what I mean!

Until now he problem is finding them on the west side of the pond.

I see that Horizon seems to have many, but not all of these products. Guess I'll see how accurate the "In Stock" notation is.


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## Gary7 (Jan 2, 2013)

spawndude said:


> I've been interested in trying several of the "Deluxe Materials" products since I saw them advertised several months ago. Just take a look at their web site and you'll see what I mean!
> 
> Until now he problem is finding them on the west side of the pond.
> 
> I see that Horizon seems to have many, but not all of these products. Guess I'll see how accurate the "In Stock" notation is.


I talked to Horizon last night. He said that it would not be available to ship until next week. I called a hobby shop in Canada, they has 1 tube listed, but $20 to ship, Forget about it! I went on ebay, it has a US dealer listed has some so I ordered. Hope it comes soon.


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## Gary7 (Jan 2, 2013)

davejames said:


> I just started putting my kit together as well. I think I'm going to leave the upper gridlines in (since they somehow seem a lot more subtle, and should be even more so after painting), and remove the lower ones.
> 
> To me the lower ones just look _completely _wrong, and way out of scale. You might be able to make out some faint ones in extreme closeups, but the overall impression is of a smooth hull, so that's what I'm going with.


I'm kinda leaning in that direction. If I could figure a good way to pencil light grid lines in after painting, I might go ahead and fill the top lines, too.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Sparky said:


> I am wondering though if it is not an all or nothing deal. I have decided to totally fill all the grid lines. Even with a syringe could one could make the partially filled grids lines fairly uniform? The syringe though does permit flow control so maybe with some practice.
> 
> I am torn on the idea of penciled grid lines. I can see them a number of times on the Season 3 blurays that I've been viewing but could be OK with leaving them off. Maybe a gridless TOS 350 E would be a nice contrast the the 350 Refit E when I have have them side by side one day. Just not sure yet.


I think you're right: it's probably all or nothing.


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## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

For _a lot_ of years the ship had no grid lines and I was cool with that. Then I was convinced they existed and grudgingly accepted it. I think R2's intention was well meaning but they unfortunately fell short in execution although the end result is far from being disastrous. I may try to hide the lines completely and if successful I sure as hell won't bother trying to pencil them back on. I just feel the ship looks more futuristic high tech without them. For me they detract somewhat from the far future look Matt Jefferies was aiming for.


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## J_Indy (Jan 28, 2013)

I remember reading (not sure if it was "The Making of Star Trek" or "The World of Star Trek") that the lines were Gene Roddenberry's idea and someone (was it Jefferies?) didn't agree - so they were drawn on in thin pencil to fulfill Roddenberry's insistance, but the person in charge of getting them drawn (who didn't agree) knew the thin pencil lines would be invisible when shown on the T.V. quality of the time.


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## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

J_Indy said:


> I remember reading (not sure if it was "The Making of Star Trek" or "The World of Star Trek") that the lines were Gene Roddenberry's idea and someone (was it Jefferies?) didn't agree - so they were drawn on in thin pencil to fulfill Roddenberry's insistance, but the person in charge of getting them drawn (who didn't agree) knew the thin pencil lines would be invisible when shown on the T.V. quality of the time.


Sounds like what I read, but I don't think it was in either of those early books. I have them both and I can't find mention of the lines in either book.


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## Sparky (Feb 21, 2004)

Warped9 said:


> I just feel the ship looks more futuristic high tech without them. For me they detract somewhat from the far future look Matt Jefferies was aiming for.


More and more I find myself agreeing with this. Used to think grids added realism but they do seem to detract in ways. The refit and the Enterprises that followed became progressively more garish in structure, ornamentation, and lighting, which I used to think that left the original Enterprise looking rather plain in comparison. 

As I am working on my 350 TOS, I am really appreciating Matt Jefferies take on clean design. The original really does stand out nicely against those designs that followed. Take the Enterprise E design for instance, cool in some ways but perhaps overwrought in others.


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## J_Indy (Jan 28, 2013)

Warped9 said:


> Sounds like what I read, but I don't think it was in either of those early books. I have them both and I can't find mention of the lines in either book.


I'm positive I read it, though I can't recall where now (pre-internet).

It makes sense too - because why would they be so thin, when high definition was decades away. No way they would be seen on 1960's TV screens, and the person drawing them couldn't be so dumb as to not know that.

Star Trek was Science Fiction SF, not Space Fantasy SF. They didn't even want fasteners like zippers or snaps to show on the clothes. The seams can be thought of as styling rather than requirements in the future. To have exaggerated seams is to "Star Wars-ify" Star Trek - which is funny since ST came first.


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## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

I may or may not draw the gridlines on in pencil. 
Maybe just the top. 
I'm going to tape some tracing paper sheets together and make templates, cutting out the teardrop shape of the B-C deck on top and the round sensor dome ring on the bottom. Then I can draw where the gridlines are onto the paper. That gives me the option of redrawing the gridlines later after the initial basecoats. If I did draw them on I'd shoot a second thinned down basecoat over the top of them so you'd barely see them. So my steps for painting the upper saucer woudl be: basecoat, pencil lines, flat clearcoat, rust ring. flat clearcoat, weathering, thinned basecoat. At this point I'd glosscote the whole model, apply decals, followed by glosscote to seal, flat coat, then go in with pastel chalks (and maybe gel ink pens) for any additional weathering or shadow enhancement I think she may need before a final flat coat. Kinda Like what I did on my 1/1000 TOS Enterprise.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

I had not even realized there was pencil lead as big as 1.3mm out there. I don't know if it was common back then or likely they used something as big as that for their lines.

But assuming a 1.3mm lead, at 32.5" the gridlines would be .319mm, approximately. I would think a .3mm lead would be very close to the right size.

Someone in another thread virtually made the gridlines disappear with a few simple coats of automotive primer from Walmart.

Why not prime the saucer until the lines are that thin, paint it with your final color, fill them with charcoal colored weathering powder, and then just seal with clearcoat?

The hull would be smooth, the pencil colored gridlines there, and you aren't trying to draw perfect circles and radiant lines on top of a complex curving surface,

which after all is said in done, would - if executed perfectly - simply end up with pencil lines over the center of the exact same line positions you just filled.

Seems much easier to thin the engraved lines with primer or Mr. Surfacer spray, finish painting everything but the lines, then fill with powder and seal.


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## J_Indy (Jan 28, 2013)

Trekkriffic said:


> I may or may not draw the gridlines on in pencil.
> Maybe just the top.
> I'm going to tape some tracing paper sheets together and make templates, cutting out the teardrop shape of the B-C deck on top and the round sensor dome ring on the bottom. Then I can draw where the gridlines are onto the paper. That gives me the option of redrawing the gridlines later after the initial basecoats. If I did draw them on I'd shoot a second thinned down basecoat over the top of them so you'd barely see them. So my steps for painting the upper saucer woudl be: basecoat, pencil lines, flat clearcoat, rust ring. flat clearcoat, weathering, thinned basecoat. At this point I'd glosscote the whole model, apply decals, followed by glosscote to seal, flat coat, then go in with pastel chalks (and maybe gel ink pens) for any additional weathering or shadow enhancement I think she may need before a final flat coat. Kinda Like what I did on my 1/1000 TOS Enterprise.


I was thinking about that too - since I will be filling in the grids, I can leave tiny pin depressions at some intersection points in the filler before it hardens completely. Later I can use a compass cutter

http://www.amazon.com/X-acto-Precis...qid=1366908238&sr=8-3&keywords=compass+cutter

to draw the circles using the pinholes as guides and a flexible ruler to do the straight lines. Some small clean-up at the pins and a final light coat of paint should diminish them and finish it off.

Maybe...


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

J_Indy said:


> I was thinking about that too - since I will be filling in the grids, I can leave tiny pin depressions at some intersection points in the filler before it hardens completely. Later I can use a compass cutter
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/X-acto-Precis...qid=1366908238&sr=8-3&keywords=compass+cutter
> 
> ...


I have one of those. I don't think you are going to be able to clear the A-B deck with it. Plus it's a cutter. It's only made to hold blades, not a pencil.

Micro-Mark might have something better for drawing circles.

Check them out.

http://www.micromark.com/circle-cutter-and-compass-16-inch-max-dia,8067.html

http://www.micromark.com/digital-compass-and-divider,10566.html

The second one would be better, not because it is digital, but because of the way it locks
the position of the compass. The cheaper one is a lot more likely to slip a bit when drawing.
It's single screwdown lock isn't as reliable.


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## RossW (Jan 12, 2000)

Chuck_P.R. said:


> I had not even realized there was pencil lead as big as 1.3mm out there. I don't know if it was common back then or likely they used something as big as that for their lines.
> 
> But assuming a 1.3mm lead, at 32.5" the gridlines would be .319mm, approximately. I would think a .3mm lead would be very close to the right size.
> 
> ...


I can't speak to anyone else's experience but I tried reducing the grid line impact using primer coats and it didn't work - some lines filled in more than others which is not what I wanted.


----------



## J_Indy (Jan 28, 2013)

Chuck_P.R. said:


> I have one of those. I don't think you are going to be able to clear the A-B deck with it. Plus it's a cutter. It's only made to hold blades, not a pencil.
> 
> Micro-Mark might have something better for drawing circles.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info.

The cutter comes with some pencil lead.

"The X-Acto Compass Cutter can create circles from 10mm to 150mm. The ratchet knob locks size into place and the stationary pivot ensures perfect circles. Great for cutting any light-weight material. 6 spare blades and 2 pencil leads are included. "

Also - I think the Bridge/B/C deck and the lower sensor dome would have to be attached after drawing the lines, so would have to be one of the last things done to the model.


----------



## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

J_Indy said:


> Thanks for the info.
> 
> The cutter comes with some pencil lead.
> 
> "The X-Acto Compass Cutter can create circles from 10mm to 150mm. The ratchet knob locks size into place and the stationary pivot ensures perfect circles. Great for cutting any light-weight material. 6 spare blades and 2 pencil leads are included. "


Mine I bought back before 2000. This one must be different in that it includes leads, but it looks similar.

Do note however, that 150mm is less then six inches. 

You are going to need something a bit bigger, which is why I suggested those two - they go up to 16 inches, 

plus something taller so that the A/B deck doesn't obstruct anything. Don't just get a longer version of the X-acto device.

Hope the info helps.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

RossW said:


> I can't speak to anyone else's experience but I tried reducing the grid line impact using primer coats and it didn't work - some lines filled in more than others which is not what I wanted.


Sorry to hear that.

I don't know if it would help at this point. But your could try Mr. Surfacer. The 1000 is thinner then the 500 spray.

Your primer may have been too thick. 

Also, Mr. Surfacer comes in bottle form.

You could get greater control by brushing it over the gridlines and then lightly sanding the excess off the surface.

If you use Mr. Surfacer spray - or any can primer for that matter - another good idea is to put it in a bucket of hot water for 10 minutes before you spray it on. And of course use light coats.

Hope this helps someone, even if it doesn't solve your immediate problem. :thumbsup:


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## J_Indy (Jan 28, 2013)

Chuck_P.R. said:


> Mine I bought back before 2000. This one must be different in that it includes leads, but it looks similar.
> 
> Do note however, that 150mm is less then six inches.
> 
> ...


Thanks again - yes, I will have to check diameter. May need a wider compass.

I deliberately left the sprue intact on the upper and lower saucer in case I needed to center a compass by drilling a hole through it before completely removing it for the upper/lower assembly.

Frankly, with the sprue there, something like a nail and a string might be enough.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

J_Indy said:


> Frankly, with the sprue there, something like a nail and a string might be enough.



That might work! 

If you could video that process I for one would love to watch it! :tongue:


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## RossW (Jan 12, 2000)

Chuck_P.R. said:


> Sorry to hear that.
> 
> I don't know if it would help at this point. But your could try Mr. Surfacer. The 1000 is thinner then the 500 spray.
> 
> ...


I tried Mr Surfacer (you can't get the spray cans here in Toronto) - both the 500 & 1000. I tried brushing it on (had very little impact) then tried airbrushing; not too successful there because of the difficulty in thinning (even using their Mr Thinner). In the end, I filled in the lines with some acrylic modelling paste and voia:





If I had known about the Plastic Putty beforehand I would have used that (especially seeing how Trekriffic used it).


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

RossW said:


> IIn the end, I filled in the lines with some acrylic modelling paste and voila:


Ross, what paste did you use? (I'm in Toronto as well) 

I'm thinking of mixing it with black acrylic to pre-shade the gridlines, then spray over with hull colour until the lines are barely there.


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## TrekFX (Apr 15, 2004)

(The following is not to be interpreted as a rant, rave, or otherwise considered a judgement of the new 1/350th TOS E, and exists only for entertainment purposes and because, well, it just DOES! Any attempt at a rational explanation would be sheer speculation and, further, assuming there was a rational basis for the diatribe in question from the onset, which may not be entirely correct. What was the question?)

They're alive... I tell you the grid lines, they're ALIVE!

First AMT release in the 60's, gridlines. But nobody knew any better, so nobody cared.

Various re-releases and revisions made better-worse overall changes but the gridlines remained. But, we were getting smarter and the word was that there were NO gridlines, so the more "enterprising" modelers shaved them away.

Word comes down that there ARE gridlines, but they're very faint and penciled-on. So we would still want to sand the surfaces smooth and work from there...

Polar Lights 1-1000 kit comes out and it's SMOOTH! Small... but smooth! No gridlines!

The "old" original AMT 1/whatever kit gets a makeover and... the gridlines are GONE! Thye model gods love us and we thusly rejoice.

The mother of all TOS E's, the result of forty plus years of modelers battling the old kits (and patiently waiting) arrives. And, Scotty... it's... got... gridlines.

They're not like you can fight trench warfare in 'em, but still...

Gridlines are like cockroaches. Just when you think they're all dead and gone, they come back.:wave:


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## RossW (Jan 12, 2000)

SteveR said:


> Ross, what paste did you use? (I'm in Toronto as well)
> 
> I'm thinking of mixing it with black acrylic to pre-shade the gridlines, then spray over with hull colour until the lines are barely there.


I used this which I purchased at Woolfits on Queen W (now a Currys, though):


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

RossW said:


> I tried Mr Surfacer (you can't get the spray cans here in Toronto) - both the 500 & 1000. I tried brushing it on (had very little impact) then tried airbrushing; not too successful there because of the difficulty in thinning (even using their Mr Thinner). In the end, I filled in the lines with some acrylic modelling paste and voia:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You did an excellent job getting her smooth. It's a shame you couldn't get the spray 1000 or 500. Is that a regulatory thing in Canada, or was it just unavailable in your local hobbyshop?

But nonetheless you ended up with a beautifully smooth result.

Are you going to leave the lines off entirely?
That's always a valid approach.


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## J_Indy (Jan 28, 2013)

TrekFX said:


> Thye model gods love us and we thusly rejoice.
> 
> :wave:


Maybe the model gods are angry... 

Not enough tribble sacrifices? :tongue:


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

RossW said:


> I used this which I purchased at Woolfits on Queen W (now a Currys, though)


Thanks -- I'll check it out.


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## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

Here's the lower saucer after puttying:



Ran my fingers over the surface and it's already quite smooth. Shouldn't take much sanding and priming to get rid of any trace of the gridlines.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

Trekkriffic said:


> Here's the lower saucer after puttying:



Looks fantastic.

Looks like you have either puttied it perfect or you 
sanded it down to a perfect fill.

How long did it take you?


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## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

Chuck_P.R. said:


> Looks fantastic.
> 
> Looks like you have either puttied it perfect or you
> sanded it down to a perfect fill.
> ...


I did the radial lines yesterday and that took about 45 minutes. Today I did the concentric circles and that took another 45 minutes. After laying the putty into the grooves with a moistened finger I let it dry for 5-10 minutes before wiping the excess away with a moist sponge. I tried to wipe across the grooves rather than along them using minimal pressure. No sanding done yet.

Too late now but another idea would be to die the putty black using water color paint or black water based ink before applying it; then sand it and you are left with black gridlines and no grooves. Might be worth experimenting with if someone still wants to see the gridlines, say, under a basecoat.


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## TrekFX (Apr 15, 2004)

J_Indy said:


> Maybe the model gods are angry...
> 
> Not enough tribble sacrifices? :tongue:


Are they good with ketchup? Stir-fry?


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## J_Indy (Jan 28, 2013)

Trekkriffic said:


> Too late now but another idea would be to die the putty black using water color paint or black water based ink before applying it; then sand it and you are left with black gridlines and no grooves. Might be worth experimenting with if someone still wants to see the gridlines, say, under a basecoat.


I considered that because I have some black Aves epoxysculpt - but the plastic putty looks to be a lot easier to use...

On a separate note - Hollywood has seen your pictures and now wants to merge the Star Trek and Spiderman franchises....:tongue:


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## J_Indy (Jan 28, 2013)

TrekFX said:


> Are they good with ketchup? Stir-fry?


Rumor has it they taste like the old Lil Abner Schmoos.....

But only the model gods know for sure...


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## spawndude (Nov 28, 2007)

The thing that concerns me about puttying all those thin grid lines is how will "time" deal with them. A year or so from now will certain areas begin to crack and/or fall out. A really dry or really humid environment could cause problems.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

Trekkriffic said:


> I did the radial lines yesterday and that took about 45 minutes. Today I did the concentric circles and that took another 45 minutes. After laying the putty into the grooves with a moistened finger I let it dry for 5-10 minutes before wiping the excess away with a moist sponge. I tried to wipe across the grooves rather than along them using minimal pressure. No sanding done yet.
> 
> Too late now but another idea would be to die the putty black using water color paint or black water based ink before applying it; then sand it and you are left with black gridlines and no grooves. Might be worth experimenting with if someone still wants to see the gridlines, say, under a basecoat.


That's another fantastic idea. 

Since the stuff you are using is water based, you could do the entire paint job minus the clearcoat, do it the way you described, and then just seal.

Everything would be flush and no breaking out the compass and lead!


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## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

J_Indy said:


> Rumor has it they taste like the old Lil Abner Schmoos.....
> 
> But only the model gods know for sure...


IIRC Shmoos liked nothing better than to be eaten.


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## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

spawndude said:


> The thing that concerns me about puttying all those thin grid lines is how will "time" deal with them. A year or so from now will certain areas begin to crack and/or fall out. A really dry or really humid environment could cause problems.


It seems to dry hard yet still remain sandable and it sticks really well. I have some on a piece of scrap styrene that's a few months old and it hasn't shrunk yet. And when I've bent it, it doesn't crack. The maker claims it is non-shrinking in their video. Probably helps to give it a couple of good coats of primer though.


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## RossW (Jan 12, 2000)

Chuck_P.R. said:


> You did an excellent job getting her smooth. It's a shame you couldn't get the spray 1000 or 500. Is that a regulatory thing in Canada, or was it just unavailable in your local hobbyshop?
> 
> But nonetheless you ended up with a beautifully smooth result.
> 
> ...


Thanks Chuck! Might be a regulatory thing, or it might be that there are only a couple of hobby shops in Toronto now and they don't carry as much stuff (especially from overseas) as they used to (one of the saddest hobby days I've ever had is when I dropped into a hobby store I've been going to since I was 5 only to see the owner sitting by himself behind the counter with all the shelves virtually empty. The shop closed down shortly thereafter. I think they tore down the block of stores and built condos).

As for what to do after it's painted, I will try to draw on the grid lines but probably only on the top. I have a draughtsman compass which will extend to the biggest circle I need to draw. Without the grid lines, it might be hard to lay in the decals.


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## spawndude (Nov 28, 2007)

Now that I see the filling work I really like the look of the non-grid line version. However, I don't have the patience or skill to do all that filling and sanding. I either sand off to much or not enough and wind up with a bumpy surface. This was to high dollar a model to risk destroying.


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## Sparky (Feb 21, 2004)

spawndude said:


> The thing that concerns me about puttying all those thin grid lines is how will "time" deal with them. A year or so from now will certain areas begin to crack and/or fall out. A really dry or really humid environment could cause problems.


How would puttying the grid lines be any different the puttying glued seams? I would think glued seams would be an issue before these grid trenches if putty is going to crack or fall out.


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## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

I spent about an hour yesterday evening sanding the upper saucer down to about 600 grit. I'm sanding across or diagonally across the lines until I can run my fingers over the lines and not feel them as the putty stands up just a tiny amount above the plastic of the hull. The putty is very hard at this point so you need to use a little muscle but it does leave a very smooth surface once you're done. It does not crack or break off like I've seen with the Squadron putties I've used in the past...long ago in the past when I was just getting back into modelling. Since then I've used primarily Tamiya polyester putty or epoxy putty or AVES which is water based like the PPP. I love the fact you can work it with water and clean up the excess using a sponge which means a lot less work sanding. I'll give the upper hull another go over today with even finer sanding films before priming. I've already got about 45 minutes into sanding the lower hull this morning. So far I've got about 4 hours into this stage of the build.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

^^^ Have you tried sanding sponges?

When I was making the seams on a 22" cutaway TOS E go away they helped
alot in allowing me to sand without affecting the curvature of the top and
bottom of the saucer. I found that even with paper alone it was difficult to keep
from distorting the complex curvature of the top of the saucer. Using the sanding
sponges in a wide circular fashion helped a ton in keeping the curvature undistorted.

I know you can get 320 grit in hardware stores, maybe finer. And Micromark.com has
them in a six pack that goes from 2400 to 12000 grit.


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## Fernando Mureb (Nov 12, 2006)

Trekkriffic said:


> I spent about an hour yesterday evening sanding the upper saucer down to about 600 grit. I'm sanding across or diagonally across the lines until I can run my fingers over the lines and not feel them as the putty stands up just a tiny amount above the plastic of the hull. *The putty is very hard at this point so you need to use a little muscle* but it does leave a very smooth surface once you're done. It does not crack or break off like I've seen with the Squadron putties I've used in the past...long ago in the past when I was just getting back into modelling. Since then I've used primarily Tamiya polyester putty or epoxy putty or AVES which is water based like the PPP. I love the fact you can work it with water and clean up the excess using a sponge which means a lot less work sanding. I'll give the upper hull another go over today with even finer sanding films before priming. *I've already got about 45 minutes into sanding* the lower hull this morning. So far I've got about 4 hours into this stage of the build.


At least you can stop going to the gym and save some money. :tongue:

The Plastmodeller SanderMan.


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

Chuck_P.R. said:


> Using the sanding
> sponges in a wide circular fashion helped a ton in keeping the curvature undistorted.


Good idea. How about taping the part to a record player ...? It might work ....


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## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

SteveR said:


> Good idea. How about taping the part to a record player ...? It might work ....


Funny. As I got to the finer grade sandpapers I started holding the saucer in the crook of my left arm pinned to my chest as I sanded with my right hand using circular motions and rotating the disc as I went. I've never had a model with a saucer large enough to do that before!

Here are the hull halves after sanding:




They are pretty smooth. It'll be interesting to see how they look after priming. I'm heading out to O'Reilly's Automotive after work to see if they have the Duplicolor primer that Autozone didn't have.


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

Great job!!


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## RossW (Jan 12, 2000)

Lookin' goooooddddd!


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

The lines look pretty thin!


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## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

SteveR said:


> The lines look pretty thin!


Just for ducks I tried staining the dried putty in the grooves with black watercolor paint but they didn't stain. So if one were going to try coloring the putty it would have to be done while the putty is wet I think.

On another note, I was able to get a can of the Dupli-color surface filler sandable primer at O'Reilly's Auto Parts so will prime the saucer halves and post pics of them afterwards.


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## Gary7 (Jan 2, 2013)

Got my Perfect Plastic Putty today. Going to go back through the available videos & threads to refresh my memory on the many tips. Hope to get cracking on the model this weekend. I am certain I am going to fill the bottom saucer grid lines, still debating on the upper lines. The one good thing about the lines is it makes it easy to get the decal lined up correctly the first time. Wish me luck.


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## Four Mad Men (Jan 26, 2004)

I got my order today as well. Two tubes. They are smaller in person than they are on T.V.


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## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

Four Mad Men said:


> I got my order today as well. Two tubes. They are smaller in person than they are on T.V.


My LHS has more on order due in on Wednesday. I asked him to set one tube aside for me to pick up on my way home from work on Monday. This stuff is my new favorite surface putty.


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## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

Well I gave the saucer halves a shot of Duplicolor surface filler primer on Friday and guess what? I could still see the gridlines! They were possibly a bit shallower than before but still quite visible. I think perhaps I was trying to be too neat and tidy when I applied the Perfect Plastic Putty; using a sponge to clean up around the grooves probably removed some of the putty. So Sunday morning I applied more putty and this time I put it on nice and thick. Later that afternoon I went back and spent about 3 hours sanding the saucer halves with 150, 180, and 400 grit sandpaper. I'll hit them with 600 grit before shooting them with more primer. I'll post some pics later over in my 1/350 TOS Enterprise build thread if anyone's interested.


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

Trekkriffic said:


> I could still see the gridlines! They were possibly a bit shallower than before but still quite visible.


... maybe there's a tiny amount of shrinkage?


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## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

SteveR said:


> ... maybe there's a tiny amount of shrinkage?


I don't think so. The experiment I did with the scrap styrene still looks fine and the grooves are still invisible. On that piece I used a lot more of the putty and wasn't trying to be tidy with it. 

And the grooves on the rear B-C deck housing hatches I filled in with putty had the same issue the first time I primed. I had cleaned up with the sponge the same way I did the saucer halves ande primed after a day to dry. The grooves were visible. So I went back and smeared on a goodly amount of putty, sanded, and primed again and the grooves were no longer visiible. 3 days later and the B-C deck part is still smooth. No grooves showing now.


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## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

Double post. Sorry.


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

Hmm ... well, thanks for experimenting for us! :thumbsup:


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## Kevin Reilly (Apr 24, 2013)

This may have been mentioned before but I didn' t see it anywhere:

Why doesn't R2 just release a supplementary parts kit that is basically just the top and bottom saucer sections without grid lines?

These two pieces would be sure to sell well, and I am sure they could get $30-40 bucks a pop for them.

Seems like a no-brainer for 2 pieces of plastic.


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## Kevin Reilly (Apr 24, 2013)

What is "canon" with repect to grid lines?

My life-long obsession with Ford Mustang may have given me the answer!

The 65-66 Mustang was such a hit, that when it came time to completely redesign it for the 67-68 model year, Iaccoca's instructions to his designers was simple"
"Make it better, make it a litle bigger...but keep it the same!"

 I think that is what happened to the Enterprise:

Robert April was given command of the original "1701". (Yorktown class) About 500' long, and equipped to comfortably hold a crew of 203, this ship served him well.
Years later command of the Enterprise was passed to Chris Pike, and the old girl served him well on his missions also.
As is well known, this Enterprise did not have grid lines, as the size of the saucer section made it unnecessary to utilize that design feature.

As Pike relinquished command of the Enterprise at the conclusion of his last mission as Captain, it was decided the Enterprise was due to be replaced with a newer, "better" version.
However, seing that the ship had become the iconic symbol of Starfleet's pioneering successes, the designers of the "new" replacement Enterprise (Larry Marvick?) were instructed to "Make it better, make it bigger...but don't change it!"

Lo and behold, the "new" 1701 (Constitution class0 was now a virtual visual clone of the original, but it was much bigger, now closer to 950' in length...about twice as big!
Accordingly, the crew compliment for the larger ship was now increased from the original 203 to a full capacity of 430.
This is obvious when comparing the overall size of the bridge and upper B/C decks from the outside of the ship. The bridge capsule appears much smaller in comparison on the new, bigger Enterprise. 
And most notably, the much larger saucer sections required a modified construction process that utilized barely visible grid lines, doubling as a more effective "deflector grid' network.
The new-style warp-drive has been upgraded as well: witness the new colorful, warp-drive bussard collectors as opposed to the original's drab yet functional reddish/brown collectors. 
The "interior' was upgraded too: Much improved electronics, larger main viewer, more pleasing colrs and trim, and new hands-free speaker/microphones replaced the old gooseneck style.

So there you go: Debate solved!


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## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

Kevin Reilly said:


> This may have been mentioned before but I didn' t see it anywhere:
> 
> Why doesn't R2 just release a supplementary parts kit that is basically just the top and bottom saucer sections without grid lines?
> 
> ...


I'd pop for it in a heartbeat to save me all the work that's coming.


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## Gary7 (Jan 2, 2013)

Warped9 said:


> I'd pop for it in a heartbeat to save me all the work that's coming.


Ditto!


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## PixelMagic (Aug 25, 2004)

So, without having to read this entire thread, what is the consensus of the easiest way to get rid of these gridlines?


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## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

I liked how my saucers turned out after the second application of Perfect Plastic Putty. 
As it turned out, I was too neat and tidy with it the first time which I found out after priming when I could still see the gridlines, 
although they were not as deep as before the first putty application. 

Here are the saucer halves after a second puttying/sanding session:


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## RossW (Jan 12, 2000)

That looks fab, Trekkriffic!


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## jgoldsack (Apr 26, 2004)

Smooth as an androids bottom!

I got some PPP waiting for mine as well.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Trekkriffic said:


> I liked how my saucers turned out after the second application of Perfect Plastic Putty.
> As it turned out, I was too neat and tidy with it the first time which I found out after priming when I could still see the gridlines,
> although they were not as deep as before the first putty application.
> 
> Here are the saucer halves after a second puttying/sanding session:


I take it the trick is to be a little sloppy and then do a little extra sanding?


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## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

PerfesserCoffee said:


> I take it the trick is to be a little sloppy and then do a little extra sanding?


Yep. Here's how they looked after the second go 'round with the putty:










I ended up using 150, 180, 400, and 600 grfit sandpaper. I probably spent about 3 hours altogether on both halves before I got the final smoothness. 
Don't wetsand though or you could dissolve the putty!


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## Opus Penguin (Apr 19, 2004)

Very nice! If I construct another one of these I may try this method. The grid lines on this model never bothered me, but I like the smooth finish.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Trekkriffic said:


> Yep. Here's how they looked after the second go 'round with the putty:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Most excellent advice, sir! Thanks for sharing your experience! :thumbsup:


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## Griffworks (Jun 24, 2002)

Great work on getting rid of the gridlines, *Trekkriffic*. Looks fantastic and like it was manufactured that way. :thumbsup:


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## Sparky (Feb 21, 2004)

Trekkriffic said:


> Yep. Here's how they looked after the second go 'round with the putty:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Here I though wet sanding would be the way to go. Thanks for the pointer.


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## Paulbo (Sep 16, 2004)

Opus Penguin said:


> ...The grid lines on this model never bothered me, but I like the smooth finish.


Ditto... And nicely done!


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## KUROK (Feb 2, 2004)

Hmmmmm. So... wet sanding dissolves the PPP?
If you dry sand does it clog the sandpaper really badly?


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## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

KUROK said:


> Hmmmmm. So... wet sanding dissolves the PPP?
> If you dry sand does it clog the sandpaper really badly?


It will. I'd sand for a while then smack the paper between my palms to unclog it. I was also blowing dust off the saucer halves as I went. Lots of dust! Yeah... that's the good stuff!


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## Gary7 (Jan 2, 2013)

Sparky said:


> Ok, this is my first attempt at uploading photos to this site. As mentioned I am using the mid size needle to apply the Perfect Putty. I lay a bead in the gridline, wipe down the beaded line with dry finger once, and then once with a wetted finger. I have done one sample grid line and show some grid lines that I filled last night. Seems to work pretty well for me.


Getting the things together to start my build. I have the PPPutty. Where can I get the syringe and needles?


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## PixelMagic (Aug 25, 2004)

Gary7 said:


> Getting the things together to start my build. I have the PPPutty. Where can I get the syringe and needles?


Gary, I got both of mine from here...

http://www.horizonhobby.com/products/pin-point-syringe-kit-DLMAC8


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## Paulbo (Sep 16, 2004)

I got the needles from my LHS. The syringes were bought for $0.20 from my local pharmacist.


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## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

Gary7 said:


> Getting the things together to start my build. I have the PPPutty. Where can I get the syringe and needles?


I don't know where you live but I got mine at TAP Plastics. Any plastic supply/plexiglas sign shop that sells casting materials will have them.


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## PixelMagic (Aug 25, 2004)

Based on Trekkriffic's recommendation, I have got my Perfect Plastic Putty today. I will be applying it to the saucer sections soon. I'll start a WIP thread when I am far enough along for anyone to care.


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## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

PixelMagic said:


> Based on Trekkriffic's recommendation, I have got my Perfect Plastic Putty today. I will be applying it to the saucer sections soon. I'll start a WIP thread when I am far enough along for anyone to care.


Good luck! And don't spare the PPP like I did trying to be so neat the first time! You should easily have enough in one tube with one application to do both the upper and lower saucer halves.


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## MartinHatfield (Apr 11, 2004)

PixelMagic said:


> Based on Trekkriffic's recommendation, I have got my Perfect Plastic Putty today. I will be applying it to the saucer sections soon. I'll start a WIP thread when I am far enough along for anyone to care.


Pixel, since you are living in the general vicinity of me (Marietta Georgia), can you tell me where you got your PPP? Maybe include a link please.


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## PixelMagic (Aug 25, 2004)

Sure, Martin. Here are the links. This is where I got mine, which arrived today. Took about 4 days.

Perfect Plastic Putty...

http://www.horizonhobby.com/products/perfect-plastic-putty-40ml-DLMBD44

Syringes...

http://www.horizonhobby.com/products/pin-point-syringe-kit-DLMAC8


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

They are also sold out


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## KUROK (Feb 2, 2004)

PixelMagic said:


> Sure, Martin. Here are the links. This is where I got mine, which arrived today. Took about 4 days.
> 
> Perfect Plastic Putty...
> 
> ...


I got some at Amazon.com recently.


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