# Building An Aurora Thunder jet Aramature



## dtomol

Has anyone tried using laminations from a Mabucihis can motor for use on a performance thunder jet armature. I had seen this somewhere but I am unable to find that information.


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## alpink

might work for a slimline chassis, but the diameter of the laminates is too small for a regular t-jet.


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## Bill Hall

Due to excessive air gap created by having smaller diameter lams, you'd lose/lessen your magnetic bubble; which is a nono. Proximity between the fixed magnetic field and the electromagnetic poles is a mandatory requirement to make it go roundy roundy.

...but then again Mabuchi made a zillion other diameters besides the "50" series and all it's children commonly used in H0; so perhaps the technique used lams from a 1/24 or 1/32 can and kept the diameter similar.


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## Rawafx

There was an article in CAR MODEL magazine back in the 60's on how to do it, I think they used the lams from a 36D armature and had to drill out the center hole to fit the center shaft of an Aurora arm.

Bob Weichbrodt
[email protected]
Winston-Salem, NC


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## alpink

a 36D is a good deal different than the image that comes to my mind when I read "_a Mabucihis can motor _".
but I guess Mabuchi made and maybe still makes 36D can motors.
so I guess those Laminates would be large enough diameter to use. 
my further thinking is that if it worked at all well there would have been a lot of them built.
I didn't pro race in those days so my exposure to those developments would be scant.
but, in as much as I took an idea about a year ago to try a train armature in a t-jet chassis using an Xcelertor gear drive and it actually worked, but not well and ran too hot to make many laps with, I can see that those with open minds and the need for speed would try anything given the right opportunity.


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## dtomol

*Aurora Tjet Arm*

Does anyone have a copy of the Car Model issue building a T-jet arm using Mabucihis using D36 laminations.


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## mowyang

*It was Model Car Science*

November 1968, pages 40 & 41

Let us know how it turns out!


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## vansmack2

When I hear 36D I ain't think armatures.


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## Omega

vansmack2 said:


> When I hear 36D I ain't think armatures.


LOL, you are not alone in that.

Dave


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## Jisp

Mowyang, that’s an excellent article. Thanks for the link.

The “dark art” of rewinding has interested me for a long time though I’m yet to take the plunge. The article and more specifically the section on building up the pole laminations got me thinking.

Bear with me please. Picture an arm lamination as three ‘T’s at 120 degrees to each other, the top of the ‘T’ being curved. Ok, you wouldn’t use just one lamination because the outer edge of the curved ‘T’ top doesn’t provide enough surface area to make use of the magnetic field provided by the windings. Is that right? If so....

You build up laminations to increase the magnetic surface area of the top of the ‘T’. I make my assumption here based on the supposed wow factor of the Aurora Quadralam arm. If my thinking is still correct..........

When you look at pretty much any pancake arm, the outer windings on each pole (naturally) sit much higher/lower than the curved top of each ‘T’. Hard to explain.... the winding is fatter than the outer surface area of the poles.

My question is, has anyone played with just building up the laminations on the top of the ‘T’ on each pole. It seems to me you could add a curved section of the lamination to the top and bottom of each pole. This would increase the magnetic face surface of each pole while still leaving room for the winding.

Does the science of this dictate that it’s not worth trying? Has anyone tried it?

Cheers,
Michael. :thumbsup:


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## DonSchenck

mowyang said:


> November 1968, pages 40 & 41
> 
> Let us know how it turns out!


The article mentions the rumored "Mini-T-Jet".

Wonder what THAT was all about???


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## Bill Hall

Referencing the new Slimline models. 

Occasionally I fantasize about what the evolution of the Slimmy might have been.


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## smalltime

Bill Hall said:


> Referencing the new Slimline models.
> 
> Occasionally I fantasize about what the evolution of the Slimmy might have been.


I hope that Lenny would find it in his heart to do the slimmy BEFORE he does the Magna-Traction.....and spin the arm OTHER way.


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## sidejobjon

dtomol said:


> Has anyone tried using laminations from a Mabucihis can motor for use on a performance thunder jet armature. I had seen this somewhere but I am unable to find that information.


Dennis,
You have a lot of Great old school ideas, I like . You have to come over for some laps Pm if you want. 
Thanks like that article
SJJ


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## alpink

very interesting read.
note that stock t-jet and AFX arms are two laminates and this custom using Mabuchi 36D laminates has three.
it has been proven that just by adding one more laminate to a same OHM end product will be faster.
I see the biggest advantage in the ends of the poles, the top of the "T" someone else described, being longer and allowing the "electro-magnet" produced on the stack of laminates to interact with the stationary magnets sooner and maintain a little longer.

that being said, and sorry if it was obvious, I wonder if anyone has the results of the race that was mentioned to see if the prediction was accurate.

now, am I going to have to find some 1/24 scale 36D Mabuchi (wonder if other brands of 36D motors would work?) motors for my custom rewinder to have a try at?


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## mowyang

I considered building one of those years ago, but there seemed to be so many areas to screw it up. The hole needs to be centered in the stacks. The shaft needs to be perpendicular to the stacks. Then there's the issue of winding the arm. From my meager rewinding experience, I know how hard it is to pack the wires on neatly. Finally, the commutator needs to be straight and true. 

I figured I could try to build one (and I even have a 36D arm sitting around here somewhere), but I knew I couldn't do it justice, and there are too many other projects I want to do someday that are ahead of it on the list!


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## tjetsgrig

anybody has a mabuchi motor, send it to me and Ill build one!!!


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## partspig

Jim, I have some toasted RC motors. I wonder if the lams on them would be useable? Wanna play?  pig

Nevermind, just checked a couple, I don't think that they will work.


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## cwbam

Any photos?

and what type of motor Jim?
SRT Turbo HP7 can type? just the arm?


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## alpink

*Mabucihis using D36 laminations*

Does anyone have a copy of the Car Model issue building a T-jet arm using Mabucihis using D36 laminations?



mowyang said:


> November 1968, pages 40 & 41
> 
> Let us know how it turns out!


http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odk...45573.m570.l1313&_nkw=mabuchi+36d&_sacat=2616


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## Ralphthe3rd

cwbam said:


> Any photos?
> 
> and what type of motor Jim?
> SRT Turbo HP7 can type? just the arm?


 He's referring to the OLD 36D motor found in old 1/24 scale chassis.... see earlier in this thread for a link.


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## mowyang

Professor Motor and EJ's Hobbies have 'em cheap.


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## tjetsgrig

Well fellas, Ive started one and now have the blank done with shaft installed, its a quad! The dye is drying as I type this, a couple more coats, let it dry overnight, then wind it up in the morning. Will keep you all posted!

Jim Sgrig


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## tjetsgrig

Finished one finished up, will post pics later. Haven't had it down the strip yet, but judging by the nasty rpm scream, its gonna be a beast! I made a quad, and man does it run smooooooooth!!

Jim Sgrig


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## alpink

*zoom~zoom~zoom*

a new era of t-jet outlaw?
I want one.
where *is* Alan Galinko?
:wave:


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## tjetsgrig

alpink said:


> a new era of t-jet outlaw?
> I want one.
> where *is* Alan Galinko?
> :wave:


Ok Al, I still have a bunch of laminates left! Tell Hank I just have to balance his slimline motors, they are 1.5 ohms!

Allan has vanished! I WILL be making an Outlaw outta one of these!!!

JS


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## alpink

90 MPH t-jet .... comin UP


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## mowyang

Jim,
Since the poles of the 36d lams are so narrow relative to an aurora blank, did that limit the amount of wire you could wind on the new arm? Seems like the narrow surface would lead to a tall arm that could be tough to fit under the gear plate. Maybe this would be more of an issue for a higher ohm road racing wind requiring more wire. 

It's cool that you made one of these! I've always wondered how they would run.


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## tjetsgrig

Yes, the poles are narrow, but I double wound it with 40awg and got 3.5 ohms. If a higher ohm motor needed, I will single wind it with the 40, or 42awg wire, there will be no clearance issues! Considering I made a quad with pleanty of clearance, Im good to go! Ive always pondered if there was something else to build a pancake, I never knew that article existed, but Im ALWAYS eyeballin' different sources to build one. This thread had me access that file in my head!


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## tjetsgrig

Well, this thing spun up so high, it shot the windings out to the end of the poles! Im gonna super glue the windings on the re-do!

JS


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## tjetsgrig

Woo hoo! I found another motor to use! By the looks of the photos in the article, the laminations I have are larger, more electro magnetic surface! The motor I made already has a nice, tight air gap. Ive got a bunch of lams, so, I will be making several motors and making some abvailable. Got a goooooood feeling about this, just hope they aren't parts eaters!!

Jim Sgrig


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## alpink

I want the lowest OHM arm!

:roll:


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## 15807brett

any pics yet of the motor


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## Boosted-Z71

Hey Jim I figure your making these arms for the Drag racing crowd, but do you see any future in one of these for a larger road circuit? 

Just curious, I have one of the 36D arms and plan on winding a couple of my own soon. 

Boosted


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## tjetsgrig

Will wind to any specs Boost!

JS


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## Ralphthe3rd

tjetsgrig said:


> Well, this thing spun up so high, it shot the windings out to the end of the poles! Im gonna super glue the windings on the re-do!
> 
> JS


 YIKES !


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## tjetsgrig

15807brett said:


> any pics yet of the motor


Hey Brett! Ive taken some pics, just gotta download 'em, maybe tomorrow!

JS


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## 70ss

Any updates?


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## slotking

> but I double wound it with 40awg and got 3.5 ohms


3 to 4ohm was pretty common ohms i used with my poly mag magnatractions we used in our road course races

even stuffed one in a t-jet with super II mags
it was very fast


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## tjetsgrig

70ss said:


> Any updates?


Just fired up the strip, will keep you guys posted!

JS


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## tjetsgrig

Just what I thought, so much torque, it sheared all the teeth right off of the cluster and crown gears! Time for plan B, put it in a tjet chassis and use a bronze crown gear! It will still probably break something else!

JS


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## Boosted-Z71

tjetsgrig said:


> Just what I thought, so much torque, JS


Yeah but the arm lived, I would say you have created a Monster!

Were all watching, keep up the good work Jim.

Boosted


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## Ralphthe3rd

Hmmm...must be like running 100% Nitro in a Top Fueler in the 1970's ie- too much Power- so sumthin's gonna give


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## dtomol

*Building AnAurora Thunderjet Armature*

Tjetsig have you tried the T-jet with metal crown gear? How about pictures of the beast?


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## StephenDresty

Great...


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## SouthLyonBen

I've never had a track big enough to accommodate T-jet power more substantial than a mean green on pump gas but I dig this thread. I think the off the beaten path engineering stuff is always interesting I used to really like in the 80s when I would read Hot Rod and they'd have pieces looking back to the 50s and 60s when people had to build their own speed stuff because the industry didn't exist yet.


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## dtomol

*Buiding An Aurora Thunder jet Armature*

Tjetsig are you going to have your monster Armatures at the upcoming race at skipac?


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## dtomol

*Building An Aurora Thunder Jet Armature*

Did tjetsgrig bring his new Big Block Super armature to the skypack race? If so how fast did it go? Inquiring minds want to know!


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## tjetsgrig

Hey dt! Still have some R&D on this thing. Although it has gobs of torque off the line, the width of the ends of the poles prevent any descent top end, too much in the magnets for too long! Ive got one I trimmed down, just need to wind it up. Will keep you all posted!

Jim Sgrig


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## dtomol

*Building An Aurora Thunder Jet Armature*

I am quoating tjetsig

Well, this thing spun up so high, it shot the windings out to the end of the poles! Im gonna super glue the windings on the re-do!

JS
__________________
Home of The ORIGINAL Yellow Jacket 
This was the arm with the 36 D laminations Did you do any more work on & did you take the pictures?


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## tjetsgrig

That was unloaded, didnt even have drive gear on it! Things translate differently to a loaded motor with all gears, wheels, body and traction magnets, thats why I got excited until it went down the track. The numbers were slightly off, we'll see how it goes after the trim job. You never know ANYTHING until you get it on the track! Just because it sounds good while adjusting brush tension, doesn't mean it will translate to good numbers!

JS


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## dtomol

*Building An Aurora Thunder jet Armature*

What happened to the Arm With the 36-d Lamination's? That was the one that revved up so high that it tossed the wires your were going to rewind & epox the windings. Then you found some other lamination that were even biger that you made an armature
out of.


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## tjetsgrig

Ive got the pole ends trimmed some, haven't had a chance to wind it up yet, Ive got some customers to tend to first. Will post results as soon as I have some. Thanks for all the interest, Im excited to see how the new configuration performs!

JS


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## dtomol

*Building An Aurora Thunder Jet Armature*

What I am talking about is the following; you built on Armature using the 36-D laminations that are the first one the one I believe that threw the windings off the first armature. You had said that you were going to rewind and glue or epoxy the windings. Then you found some other Laminations that were even larger than the 36-D Laminations, that is the one been working on lately the second Armature. So my question is did you ever rewind the first Armature, and if so how did it work out?


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## alpink

tapping foot impatiently ..................................................


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## SouthLyonBen

alpink said:


> tapping foot impatiently ..................................................


I know I keep checking this thread waiting to hear something.


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## tjetsgrig

Still workin' it fellas. Did not redo the first one yet, I want to have them both trimmed down before I procede. Ive got som customer stuff to tend to first!


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## dtomol

*Building An Aurora Thunder jet Armature*

Have you cut down the lamination on the two special armatures yet? I did not think that you would need to cut down the laminations on 36 D armature as that armature has been done before and worked ok. I under stand about the second armature as the lamination are even biger. Inquiring minds want to know.


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## alpink

I cannot answer for sgrig, so your question remains.
however, being friends with him for 30 or so years, I can tell you when he has news, he will be anxious to share it.
likely other builds, winds, priorities are coming before that set of experiments.
not to make light of your request and I think you should continue to ask.
just wanted to share what I do know.


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## dtomol

*Building An Aurora thunder jet Armature*

Trying not to bother Tjetsig just very interested in the outcome of this test.


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## dtomol

*Building An Aurora Custom made Tjet Armature*

Any more information on your custom made Armatures with the new types of laminations?


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## tjetsgrig

As Al said dt, I will pass on any info as soon as I have any more results! Very busy with guys builds and issues with my parents! Thanks very much for your interest, Im just as curious as you are!!

JS


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## dtomol

*Building An Aurora Thunder Jet Armature*

I know you have been very busy with building Customer Pancake Armatures & fixing your Parents house, how do you find any free time to do testing etc?


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## dtomol

*Building A Aurora Thunder Jet Armature*

Any word on the special arm with the 36-D lam's and the other custom lams that you were working on?


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## sidejobjon

Dennis,
Did you find your La-Ganke arm? Did you try building one using the step by step?
SJJ


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## dtomol

*making a modified T-jet style multiple lamination armature*

Any word on those custom lamination arms made for D-36 lamination etc on how & if they worked?


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## dtomol

*Custom Thunder Jet Armature with Custom laminations*

Have not heard anything in a while any progress on those custom armatures you were making with the custom laminations?


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## Elcaminobill

I think I have some of those Mabuchi lams in my parts box. Anybody else want to try winding some?


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## dtomol

*Custom Wound Tjet arm with 34D laminations*

I never heard back on how these armatures worked out? Did you finish any and were they faster in the 1/4 mile ?


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## tjetsgrig

The motor I did finish and run, the time was off, but the mph showed not a whole lot of difference. My 60' time was slower, so that tells me there is a drop in torque. I havent had time to experiment anymore with them, maybe when things slow down some here. Believe me, when I get more results, you guys will be the first to know!!

JS


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## dtomol

*Building an Aurora custom Tjet Armature with custom laminations 36 Laminations*

I know you have had family issues and was wondering if things are working out for you.? Also if I remember correctly you injured your hand I hope that is on the mend as well. Not to bug you, but any word on the special arm with the 36-D lam's and the other custom lams that you were working on?


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