# How many people on EARTH do what we do here?



## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

I'm wondering, I just grew up assuming lots and lots of kids were like me- making lots and lots of stuff. I had a 60's Thingmaker & made dozens of Supermen (many with metal from paper clips in the moulds for bending like in my Gumby toys- never lasted more than a few bends though, heh heh) & a Major Matt Mason station that I made bigger & better with lots of cardboard and tape... later in my 8 - 12 year old phase I graduated to making phasers, communicators & even a shuttlecraft with a full interior out of cardboard... in the Seventies came my styrene revolution where I could make an Enterprise from a kit that looked GREAT! Then my Apes phase where I made masks from clay, plaster moulds & latex... then original masks for my Super 8 movies about alien attacks on Earth... 
Today I make a bunch of stuff documented here, and I wonder, is it really just a few thousand of us out of _billions_ that do this sort of thing????

Are there numbers on how many Moebius J2's or 1/350 TOS Enterprises are sold?

Are we unique in terms of physical modeling creativity where the Human Race is concerned?


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## Zombie_61 (Apr 21, 2004)

Chrisisall said:


> ...is it really just a few thousand of us out of _billions_ that do this sort of thing????


Short answer: yes. Especially these days when the common perception is that fewer people are building model kits with each successive generation.

When I was growing up in the 60s I knew of one other person who expressed an interest in building model kits--specifically the Aurora "monster" kits, and that was only because he was interested in the subject matter. Except for the people on forums like this, as an adult I don't know anyone who builds model kits. And I can't remember the last time I had to share the "models" aisle with someone at one of the not-so-local hobby shops.

So, yes, in relation to the general population of this planet, I'd say we're in a very small minority.


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## harristotle (Aug 7, 2008)

I would fit into the younger crowd I think, and I can't off the top of my head think of any of my friends who also build models. My Dad did, but I didn't even really get into it until after I had moved out. Glad I did, I hope I can pass it onto my kids someday...


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

Zombie_61 said:


> So, yes, in relation to the general population of this planet, I'd say we're in a very small minority.


Not to get too esoteric here, when people want stuff, do they just say, "well, I can't have it"? 
My Wife wanted our kitchen remodeled, and we didn't have the money, so I just looked at it like a big model & did it myself for peanuts. Some beadboard, a circular saw, contact cement & paint did it. 
I guess what the point of this thread is, is that we ARE special, and not just the useless dorks we sometimes see ourselves as (ah, now I expose my *inmost self*, but I'm prettier than those dudes in Beneath TPOTA), and I hope most here can appreciate how special they (WE) are.
In my own case, I find it easy to lose sight of that.
Just an FYI. 
We are cool!:thumbsup:


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## Landru (May 25, 2009)

For myself, being 23 years of age, it is incredibly rare for me to meet someone who does what I do. Friends and others my age who happen to see my completed models on display in my home look at them with a certain confused fascination. It never bothers me, I'm very comfortable with my interests but I do really appreciate it when anyone comments on them.


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## Fernando Mureb (Nov 12, 2006)

If we are talking about plastic modeling, it's probably right, but when it comes to RC models, I don't know. In Brazil RC is experimenting a growth.


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## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

I think it's a cultural thing, and here in the U.S. the cultural aspect has transformed or been eliminated. 

It's like...hm, model building shares a skillset with other mechanical hobbies. It requires a clear eye, a steady hand, an ability to not only follow instructions but be able to adapt if the instructions are vague or even incorrect, and above all else being patient. You have to wait for the glue to dry. You have to wait for the putty to dry (if you're that advanced in taking care of seams), you have to wait for the paint to dry, you have to wait for the decals to dry. Wait wait wait. This sort of thing was often seen as a precursor to working on cars- making your own jalopy from a barely running wreck and rebuilding the engine, making wire looms, working the rust out of the body, etc. That sort of thing really doesn't happen anymore. Rebuilding a car isn't something an older teen DOES anymore. Oh, I'm sure in some parts of the country it's still a 'thing' but it's not common. 

And then there was the 'fear' factor. Kids buy 'airplane glue' and SNIFF it and get HIGH and buy spray cans of Testors to deface property and OH NOZE hobby knives are SHARP and basically everything you NEED to build a model became a sign of juvenile delinquency and this was discouraging. 

Add to that the rising cost of everything and plastic kits stopped being 'cheap disposable entertainment' some time in the early '90s, hobby shops started to focus more on 'Magic the gathering' cards and other 'rare, collectable, gotta buy them and 'flip' them for money' games and THAT put a goodly number of shops out of business...

Compare to Japan which seems to have kept plastic kit building as a viable hobby to take up, with local hobby shops all over the place and a really robust 'support network' of hobby supplies easily available and, adjusted for local standards of living, cheaply priced.


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## DCH10664 (Jul 16, 2012)

I tend to think we are in the minority. Though I might be, and part of me sort of hopes, that I'm wrong. But in real life, I really only know one guy that still builds models, my cousin. Recently I gave him a Masudaya YM-3 Robot for his birthday. He acted like he had won the lottery !!! But if I were to give the gift of a model to most guys I know, it would likely end up in the trash.

When I first found Hobbytalk, I expected that this place would be full of 15, 16, & 17 year old guys. And expected that I would be the "old man" in the crowd. But I come to find out that there are more guys here in my age group (I'm turning 49 in Oct.). But I'm happy when I find that there are much younger guys on here building models. It lets me know, that not all of the younger generation, has given up on modeling.

So am I strange, or odd ? Am I just an older guy trying to recapture some of the fun I had as a kid ? Maybe all of the above is true. But I don't care. Even though no one else seems to take interest in what I do. This is something I do for me. For my pleasure. And I enjoy my models, toys, etc. And as I see it, I could be spending time and money on a lot of worse activities. So if I am in the minority, so be it.


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## spawndude (Nov 28, 2007)

In my preteen years probably about 1/2 of my friends built a model or two.

In junior high there was one kid from England I became friends with who was more into models than I was. He was into WW2 stuff.

In high school there was also only one kid into models. He rarely painted his models and when he did it was what ever color of spray paint his dad had in the garage. He was into real space and scifi models.

From then to now (over 40 years!) I've personally known/know "0" people into models! There were a handful back in the 80's-90's that were onto D&D miniatures painting but I don't consider those models. Sadly I learned a few months ago one of the guys in this group died of a heart attack. We would sit for hours talking and painting our figures.

Most of the time I go into Hobby Lobby or the two local hobby shops I do see someone looking at the models, usually cars, that I am not really into. I have seen ads for a local model hobby club but my experience with "clubs" (D&D, wargamming, computers, aquariums) has not been a pleasant one.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

It's getting rare in the US, but I'm under the impression modeling is still huge in Japan. Of course I may be wrong.


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## Fozzie (May 25, 2009)

I'm 52 and, while my 3 brothers were all into modeling in their teenage years, I'm really the only one who does it now--and I only got back into it a few years ago when I stumbled across the 1:350 _Enterprise _refit and said, "I have got to have THAT!"

I work in computers and a large part of the appeal to me is that I am building something physical, because all my work at the office is "virtual" in that it disappears as soon as you turn off the power. 

That being said, I'm having an absolute ball combining micro-controllers (Arduino) to control lighting with my models (working on the 1:350 NX-01 at the moment).

I don't know anyone who does modeling though one of my brothers bought a 3 foot space shuttle stack kit a few months ago and asked me for some advice on building it. I don't think he has ever actually started it, however.


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## mach7 (Mar 25, 2002)

I know a few guys I work with are into R/C, There are a few guys who are into rockets, but I have not come across anyone else who builds models.

When ever I go to a hobby store the only people in there are guys like me.
When I see another customer.

I think model builders are a fraction of 1% here in the US, and Science Fiction model builders are a small fraction of the model builders.

I think we can assume that the 1st run of the 1/350 TOS E was between 5000-10000 units. I personally think it's closer to the 5000 range, but what do I know. I base this on the fact that they fairly quickly sold the 1701 club kits, and the regular edition kit seemed to sell well. The 1st run sold out in about 6 months, they are into the second run now. 
One question, how many of the 1st run had to be cannibalized for replacement of warped parts?

I'm not sure where I get this number but I seem to remember Moebius alluding to the Moonbus run being around 5000 units and I still see them readily available online and in shops.

How many people are active here? 100-200?
How many people go to wounderfest?
How many people are active over at SSM?

We basically have just 2 online science fiction model stores, Cult and SSM.
If the market could support more, there would be more.

If I had to guess, I would say that there are fewer than 10000 of us in the USA.


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## Avian (Feb 16, 2010)

There are a lot of younger modelers out there. It's just that they are using electrons instead of glue. 

If you go to SciFi-Meshes.com you'll run into folks of all ages. (There is a "physical modeling" sub-forum there too but it's pretty sparse.)


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## walsing (Aug 22, 2010)

Even here on Hobby Talk a glance at "Home" on any given day is mostly RC, slot car and diecast. Models are a very small fraction of the listing.


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## liskorea317 (Mar 27, 2009)

John P said:


> It's getting rare in the US, but I'm under the impression modeling is still huge in Japan. Of course I may be wrong.


I've lived in Japan, and now Korea and while in Japan and on
visits to Tokyo and Osaka over the years, there was never a shortage of shops for modeling. Any place they sell art supplies or stationary you'd find hobby supplies. Small shops, large chain stores. Even in comic shops. You could find
Models and hobby supplies in every neighborhood. Korea has hobby shops but not anywhere near the way it is in Japan, but there is a big interest in RC stuff.


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## J_Indy (Jan 28, 2013)

I think a lot has to do with computerization. Creating something in the computer/on the screen is the equivalent to what used to be building models. Add to that the incentive for potential employment with that skill, and it is no wonder that kids gravitate to it.

Also, as someone said - model building isn't necessarily cheap anymore. The models themselves are more expensive. Add the paint, glue, and tools to make something decent and the costs add up. Add lighting and it costs more. While the tools are reusable, the initial costs can make you pause. This is especially true if you are a young kid.

The modeling is also headed further into computerization with 3D printing. When 3D printers become cheaper and capable of printing in larger size, a lot of the work will be done in front of a screen again.

I think model-makers would fall into the general category of people who like to make crafts with their hands - that would include to a greater of lessor degree people like sculptors, wood-workers, clay-pot makers, etc. The basic desire is the same - to produce a final physical product from some initial, more raw, materials.


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

J_Indy said:


> I think model-makers would fall into the general category of people who like to make crafts with their hands - that would include to a greater of lessor degree people like sculptors, wood-workers, clay-pot makers, etc. The basic desire is the same - to produce a final physical product from some initial, more raw, materials.


Yeah, I saw a guy at a site that wanted a Star Trek III phaser- he created it with CAD in his computer, sent the files to a 3D printing place (not cheap, but not crazy expensive either, like $250 I think), got it back, did clean up & paint and installed light & sound. Not bad, but something about it looked, I dunno, _computer-ish_, if that makes any sense.


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## Fernando Mureb (Nov 12, 2006)

In Brazil modeling is a niche; plastic models are a niche into the niche; and sci-fi & space is a niche into the niche into the niche. 

And maybe 90% of people in the hobby is concentrated in 4 or 5 big cities. Nothing that can be compared to USA, Japan, Germany and so on.


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

Fernando Mureb said:


> And maybe 90% of people in the hobby is concentrated in 4 or 5 big cities. Nothing that can be compared to USA, Japan, Germany and so on.


So THAT'S why you're such a terriffic scratch builder.:thumbsup:


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## Fernando Mureb (Nov 12, 2006)

:wave:


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## GordonMitchell (Feb 12, 2009)

I started when I was 7yrs old and it was my Dad that got me going with an Airfix Napoleon(Bonaparte) model,it was painted(badly....lol)with gloss paints...a bright pink for the flesh.........eaugh,anyway I kept going,don't remember to many in my primary school who built models in fact only one other in my class who made small ship like things from block balsa,and only met a few more guys later in secondary school who built tanks and aircraft,in the Air Cadets that was a different storywe had plastic kits and a balsa aircraft from rubber power to ic engines,control line to rc and a couple of the guys there converted scalextric system components to make an indoor electric pylon racing system with paper ribbon streamers on the tails that you had to chase,
anyway growing up with it I was called all sorts by the other guys(so called macho types)for playing with toys and my sisters were the same even to this day even though I had made a successful business out of it and still make props and have commissions coming in(albeit a lot less and slower but still coming)our local branch of the IPMS is slowly getting smaller even though our annual show is attracting more public year by year we cant seem to get any younger generations interested enough to start building,my daughter can't wait to get her hands on my stash,not for her boys but for a sale to get a holiday for them all.......say's it all I suppose,
on that depressing note,its good by from him,
and cheerio from me:lol:
Gordon:thumbsup:


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## J_Indy (Jan 28, 2013)

GordonMitchell said:


> my daughter can't wait to get her hands on my stash,not for her boys but for a sale to get a holiday for them all.......say's it all I suppose,
> on that depressing note,its good by from him,
> and cheerio from me:lol:
> Gordon:thumbsup:


Some of the good models go for a pretty high price. I think $5K and up from somebody like a Neill or Mercs, depending on how far you want them to take it.

Many people do it just for the process, because they enjoy it. But there are others who will pay because they can't do the same for themselves up to a standard they want.

If your daughter thinks she would get a good return from your "stash", maybe she can also find you some customers for paid builds...


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## GordonMitchell (Feb 12, 2009)

only if she got the cash:devil:
just kidding,I don't think she's that bad really her main problem is she listens to my wife too much
cheers
Gordon


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## Flux Chiller (May 2, 2005)

Interesting subject. Our UK high-street model shop chain Model Zone has just closed down for good. There was still a market there apparently, but they over-expanded with too many shops too quickly, and the current rental rates on high streets are ludicrous for anyone but the big brands - so we have to put up with more clothes shops, charity shops, and that is about it. Pity because I used to like physically browsing the latest Airfix releases in a shop- they have had a recent renaissance in their products. Now I have to revert to exclusively online purchases again.

Do I know anybody that makes models? No, nobody I can think of. My Uncle taught me everything, but he is long retired and has lost interest in doing much more now. I am late 30's myself and all my friends are into cooking and baking cakes rather than working on old cars (which I also do a lot of) or making anything. Half of them cannot even do much DIY now. 

I hugely admire the 3D digital models on the web, but that is a very different skill set, and needs a lot of artistic talent as well.


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## seaview62 (Nov 30, 2012)

As a 51 year old, I've been building mostly sci-fi models since the early 70's. I don't know of anyone else in my "circle" who are still building at this age. My LIS and ST models are all displayed in my spare bedroom. Have never displayed them "out in the open". However, after recently moving into my new house, the cable guy came in, probably in his 30's, and freaked when he saw my 1/350 TOS Enterprise sitting on top of some unpacked boxes. He loved it, asked where I got it, etc. What else did I have...?! For the first time in my life, a complete stranger made it all worth the effort.


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## Flux Chiller (May 2, 2005)

That is a very good story. I think one of the best things about the Star Trek kits is the pure size of a lot of them.

We were all disappointed as kids when those large boxes of model aircraft came out with tiny little 150mm wing spans when the boxes seemed to be a couple of feet long.

I could not believe my first AMT refit, it took up half my bedroom and was certainly more impressive than anything else I'd done up until that point. The other killer for me are model ships - when the rigging is done properly, they are mesmerising.


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## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

OK, I can state with proof why our hobby is shrinking. A short tale.

I went whole-hog into building in the early '70s. Joined up with the local IPMS and everything. Even won a ribbon or two. Armor was my main 'drug' because I learned quickly that weathering a tank can forgive mistakes in build. 

So, as I sort thru old papers I find a lovely color pamphlet from one of my kits, back when MRC was doing importing for Tamiya. I thought this might be instructive. One of my favorite builds was the 1/35 scale M60-A1, the front line main battle tank of the day. It looked so sharp. That kit, circa 1975, cost $6.98 at retail. 

Now, that same kit, revised for Operation Desert Storm (since waiting for the Soviets to make that push for the Fulda Gap no longer mattered  ) is still part of Tamiya's catalog. http://www.hlj.com/product/TAM35157/Mil

Current MSRP price in Japan is 3,300 Yen, call it $33 USD. That's pretty pricy and sure is out of my 'casual money' zone, BUT.

Local hobby shop price? $70.

Now, I know there's MANY factors at play here. The Yen has gotten wicked strong, the Dollar has been weakened to a frightening degree, oil prices (but my '70s kit was at the height of the first Oil Shock), the major factor that there isn't an American importer for Tamiya (or as good as MRC was for them), the decrease of hobby shops leading to closing of many distributors leading to higher prices , just plain inflation and on and on.

I don't care. I think $70 for a tank kit is just insane. I think it's a barrier to entry. $70 is REAL MONEY any way you shake it. A kid with $70 to spend isn't going to blow it on ONE KIT. I sure wouldn't have.


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

Flux Chiller said:


> I could not believe my first AMT refit, it took up half my bedroom and was certainly more impressive than anything else I'd done up until that point.


That and the MPC Millenium Falcon were the two big WOW's back in the day!:thumbsup:


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## J_Indy (Jan 28, 2013)

I just noticed clicking thru e-Bay someone is selling 1/350 TOS E builds (lights and motors) for $1,200.00.

That's about what the MR's were going for if I recall correctly...


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## RobP. (Jun 21, 2013)

Looks like some of these posts are hitting the nail squarely on the head - cost of kits, supplies, etc. If it were not for my cash outlay, my boys would not have been able to start into model building. Two of the three really enjoy it, the oldest works and is self sufficient in maintaining his hobby. However he is also in college so is very discerning as to just what kits he purchases. The youngest is pretty much sustained financially in the hobby by me. Luckily, I had stashed away a set of Aurora repops for him to build eight years ago when the Luminators were very inexpensive and polar lights flooded the market. (Have you seen what a Creature from the Black Lagoon or Phantom of the Opera repop is selling for on ebay?) Without that foresight on my part, and not because of price increase worries, but that I wanted to be sure they had the opportunity to enjoy something that I dearly enjoyed myself as well. 

So although I have passed on the modeling intrest to two of my boys, I can easily see where with out a parent or guardians support for the hobby, the majority of younger kids are not going to just wander in to it with their weekly allowance. And without those early memories, I think it will be less likely they start when they are older. Combine that with the ease in which they can play video games and I think that sums up why this will almost always be a niche hobby from now on. Hopefully I am wrong, and a huge modeling revival will happen. 

BTW outside of myself and two of my boys, I have two uncles that model, one does warships, and the other is into the classic Aurora type monsters like myself. I do not personally know anyone else who builds models. 

Rob


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

Some of my friends were into building in the Seventies and VERY early Eighties... I'm the only one now. Thank the Lords of Kobol for modeling forums!:thumbsup:


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## Dr. Brad (Oct 5, 1999)

I have known a few people over the years here in Canada (the West Coast), but now I know very few personally. Sad, I suppose, but yes, we are in very small minority here in North America...


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## Cajjunwolfman (Nov 15, 2004)

Very interesting question. 

If you look at subscriber numbers to Fine Scale I believe it is around 70,000 a year. 
IPMS has about 5,000 dues paying members.

IPMS Nationals draw about 1,000 a year.
I would venture Wonderfest is about the same.

Someone besides us must be buying models at HL, Michaels, the few remaining LHS, and Internet retailers such as Squadron.

I worked as the Public Relations Officer for one of the model clubs were on a Fact Finding mission about recruiting new members and youth. I conducted several surveys as wall as speaking one on one to many parents, especially single parent households.

Found out that:

The actual cost of the model was not a big factor. Compared to other hobbies, IE, R/C, Computer Games, Ballet (Lots of girls in models now), were much more expensive. There are also cost effective alternatives. New Airfix Spitfire, Zero, in 10,12 dollar range, complete kit with paint and glue for 20 dollars. Many other choices also.


The biggest concern of the parents was some form of support system for the kid. The kids actually wanted to build real models with paint and decals, not snap-tites with stickers. Once the first make-n-take was over, where did the child go from there? They are not going to pursue on their own. There is no structure. They are not going to be able to work with a model club of old me who complain constantly about not having enough fiber in their diet!

Another factor to consider. Most of these children have parents who can not even tell you the difference between a flat head screwdriver and a Philips head. How is the kid going to know anything about building anything? Kids perception is you are going to give him a bag of parts and he makes something out of it? Nobody has taught them how to read any directions. 

I do see a few kids in LHS. Somehow they have acquired the idea on their own and build. Not many.

All the hobbies seem only for this generation. Few youngsters in R/C, woodworking, etc. The manufacturers are making kits for their market. People our age. That is why you see the detail, parts count and price on the current kits on the market.


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## Zombie_61 (Apr 21, 2004)

Cajjunwolfman said:


> ...I do see a few kids in LHS. Somehow they have acquired the idea on their own and build...


That was me back in the late 60s. The only actual instruction I ever received was from the clerk that was working in the store the day I bought my first model kit, who explained the basics of model building to me--cut the parts off of the sprue, use this type of glue and assemble the parts in the order indicated on the instruction sheet, and paint it with these paints (Pactra 'Namel and Testors were the only paints available then). Except for the tips I've learned on forums like this, everything else was learned through years of trial and error. Of course, that's why I have just enough skills to build a model that won't win any awards, but I'm fine with that.


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## gobbledegook (Nov 3, 2009)

Interesting to read all your guys stories. A guy in the office next door brought a Revell Enterprise but I didn#t have the opportunity yet to talk to him. Other than that I don't know anyone who builds models. on page 1 someone said that we are special in terms of skill and patience and I agree on that. It takes a lot to get into this or any other hobby where you build stuff. Intellectually I mean. You have to know how to do things or figure it out yourself. Whether you build a 1/350 Refit, a guitar amplifyer or kitchen furniture, it's all the same. So yes, we builders are special!


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## harristotle (Aug 7, 2008)

gobbledegook said:


> Interesting to read all your guys stories. A guy in the office next door brought a Revell Enterprise but I didn#t have the opportunity yet to talk to him. Other than that I don't know anyone who builds models. on page 1 someone said that we are special in terms of skill and patience and I agree on that. It takes a lot to get into this or any other hobby where you build stuff. Intellectually I mean. You have to know how to do things or figure it out yourself. Whether you build a 1/350 Refit, a guitar amplifyer or kitchen furniture, it's all the same. So yes, we builders are special!


You are absolutely right with that. My parents were in town this weekend and I was showing my Dad my 2500 scale lighted Enterprises. He made the comment that I was either a genius or insane lol my wife thought that was pretty spot on too.


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## Harumph (Aug 31, 2006)

It's an interesting question. It seems to have many different answers. A matter of perspective maybe. For me, I'm 43. I got into modeling because Star Wars and Star Trek were huge for me as a child, I loved the look of the ships, and I loved them enough that I soaked up any information on them that I could. This led me to aspire to be like my heroes and build models too. It wasn't because I knew anyone else who did, I didn't, I just found my own way to the hobby. I knew no other modelers from going to the shops, as they were either older than me, or not interested in sci-fi subjects. The one real interaction I ever had was an employee at Hobbytown who gave me some copies of a Reliant conversion, which I think came from Star Fleet Assembly Manual, and that's about it. Sure, there are no more LHS to be found in my area, but I only knew of two when I was a kid. Also when I was a kid, the kits just were not at a quality level that made the build process very smooth. Either they were missing detail, or worse had inaccurate detailing that had to be modified or removed and replaced. By hand, from scratch. Now, kits are coming out at fantastic levels of accuracy. There are aftermarket makers who can be found to address almost any need. There are _so many_ sources for reference material. I see the work of _so many_ other modelers who work in the same subject as me. Not only do I see their work, but I can ask them about it. There was nothing as good as these PL Star Trek or Fine Molds Star Wars back in the day. And online retailers? They are awesome, and I do mean that I have moments of awe at times, when I remember that if Hobbytown didn't have it, tough luck. If there was a mail order option, it took 8 WEEKS for anything to arrive. Now I can get anything I'm looking for, and get it in a day or two. When I purchase something online and I think on how easy it was to do, I'm just floored. 

I completely understand that for many of you who may have had better experiences with a LHS, who had friends in the hobby that gave it a sense of community and now feel that slipping away, I totally see that you would look back and feel that things are diminishing. I get that. If that it what it was for you, then you are correct. For me, who had none of those really, I feel more of a sense of things getting better. I have a group that I feel I belong to now. I have options I never did before, and I feel fairly confident more will come.

As for others doing this, a new generation, I think a lot of things have to compete for attention out there, there are many more choices to be found than when we were kids, and yet you do see younger folks coming along. There's just not the vast number of our youth. I think that's okay. The kids in my neighborhood for example, none of them have that one thing they all MUST HAVE. They all seem to like their own thing. That's not how it was when I was a kid. There was a limited number of things vying for our interest. So instead of ten kids who model, there's one. And there's a kid down the street who's lately been asking what I'm working on, and he seems to be taking an interest and he's been asking how to go about it. It's like that for everything. Comic book fans, for example, are always lamenting the end of the world is nigh, but I see a couple kids around here who read them. I just don't see every kid reading them like I did. I really truly do not believe anything is dying out, just leveling out.


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

Everything is 'virtual' today. We're in the Matrix.
Whatever, I _make_ the stuff I want to hold or play with. :thumbsup:


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## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

Chrisisall said:


> Everything is 'virtual' today. We're in the Matrix.
> Whatever, I _make_ the stuff I want to hold or play with. :thumbsup:


Yes, this. When Amazon had a big sale on the DST Geology 
Tricorder I just went ahead and grabbed it. I didn't NEED it, I have Science and Medical, those are the important ones, the Geo Tricorder is just a one-episode, fairly crude, story-driven prop, but at about $25 I felt it was worthy.

I would have liked to spent that $25 on a Tamiya tank kit, say a M-1A3 or something. I really really want to get back into armor, but man, I just CAN'T at LHS prices. Prices from Japan are more in line with my comfort zone (mostly) but then one gets boned on shipping. 

It's all screwed up, man.


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## Dyonisis (Nov 11, 2009)

I've read almost all the posts here in skimmed over form. Like Zombie said in his first post "this is a dying art from each successive generation". 

We are but a very small handful of artisans here. I'm amazed at all the talent on this forum (myself excluded). I know what I'm capable of. I'm only amazed when what I do comes out right the first time! There are HORDES of gaming nerds, and fanboys (and fangirls) that cosplay, but far less of those that build, or make models. Even smaller is the group of modelers that do lighting, and detailing on the scale seen here on hobbytalk. Granted that there ARE a lot of very talented people out there, we are the very few leftovers from the last generation of modelers! I tried to get my cousins boy interested in this, but he just mocked me, and all that I did until he saw my Terminator build - that got him thinking!! 

~ Chris ​


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

Things are going full circle for me from when I was a kid, it seems. I wanted a shuttlecraft when I was nine, so I had to make one out of cardboard. Today, I wanted a Trek VI phaser, so I had to make one out of resin.
In between, a lot of good affordable stuff came out that I just had to basically glue together & paint.


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## J_Indy (Jan 28, 2013)

Dyonisis said:


> I've read almost all the posts here in skimmed over form. Like Zombie said in his first post "this is a dying art from each successive generation".
> 
> There are HORDES of gaming nerds, and fanboys (and fangirls) that cosplay, but far less of those that build, or make models.
> 
> ~ Chris ​


Maybe that is another reason - there are other outlets for building that did not exist a generation ago.

While not all CosPlayers create their own costumes, I think (from reading about them) many do - and consider it a point of pride to fashion what they wear themselves.

Also - some now go the route of Pepakura - which is designing (or using pre-designed) templates that are printed onto hard cardstock, cut and folded into 3D objects, then lightly coated with Bondo and sanded/painted.

Some of the final creations are AMAZING. 






And it has the virtue of being CHEAP to make - cardstock, printer, Bondo, paint, and TIME.

With the ever-rising prices of plastic models and the additional costs to build them up, it may be that what would have been modellers in the past have gravitated to cheaper means to express their creative/construction urges.


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

Creativity in any venue is a great thing!:thumbsup:


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

Look around. We're it. 

I live in a city of a million people in northern Canada. We have three viable hobby shops left. Two are in malls and having to pay mall rent are very expensive. The other, and by far the largest, owns its strip mall and its prices are anywhere from 1/2 to 3/4 the mall store prices. Nobody in Canada buys anything mail order that can be found or ordered in locally because of the insane postage costs from the US. The big hobby shop got in 12 1/350 TOS Es when they were first released, plus 2 light kits and a set of decals and a set of etch. They sold 10 of the big E's and one of the light kits and about three weeks ago sent the remaining stock back to the distributor. Say the mall shops managed to sucker even that many people again into buying the Es at their prices. That's 20/1,000,000. For the Grail of Enterprises. And I can't imagine Canadians are any less Trekkified than Americans. After all, Vulcan is here in this province. 

Frank at Moebius wrote on HT that the Jupiter 2 sales were very disappointing and, to roughly quote, said that if he knew then what he knows now, he wouldn't have produced it. I hope that sales through re-releases over the long haul will make it all worthwhile. 

So we're a small community, at least in North America. I see hints in various media that model making may still be very healthy (American 70's healthy?), in Europe but who knows how much of that is SF related? Certainly all the best real space stuff comes from Europe. In Asia there seems to be a huge, vigorously healthy community of people modelling in every subject and every medium. Lots of interest in SF, lots and lots of interest in fantasy subjects. Just a serious communications barrier between our hemispheres. 

In my dad's old 50's Popular Mechanics and Popular Science type magazines, there are endless wonderful articles about all these guys in their basement workshops fitted with lathes and milling machines turning out stunning working solid brass locomotives and steam engines and and gorgeous wooden ships and every other kind of model imaginable. (These were also the days when everyone made their own telescope optics.) And there are occasional threads of letters from issue to issue wondering if these new plastic kit thingies are going to bring an end to people actually making models and lead to a generation of nothing more than "kit assemblers". 

To them, actually making things with your own hands used to be a given. They were worried about their hobby dying. It didn't, totally. Just very few people (well, anywhere in North America) are actually making anything anymore. 

We're worried about our hobby dying. But I think is a reaction to the fact that even the 50s/60's generation doesn't want to make kits any more. Check out all the retired guys buying muscle car replicas at your local hobby shop. The vast majority of fans of any subject now would rather just buy a finished object. As a culture in general, we're gone from people who make things to people who collect things. From an industrial/manufacturing society to a nation of hoarders in just a couple of decades.There are still cultures out there who need to make things, even some who actually value making things. Hey, they're selling us everything we buy.

So, I don't think there are many of us out there at all. Pretty much just who you see here. And Chrisisall, you're in an even tinier subset of people who make things. You make the parts for the things you build! You're probably 1 in a million. More power to you, brother!


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

starseeker said:


> Look around. We're it.


 New members join here constantly, but not in huge numbers, and any modeler that's in any way serious would be a member of one of these sites IMO. So yeah, you may be correct!


> And Chrisisall, you're in an even tinier subset of people who make things. You make the parts for the things you build! You're probably 1 in a million. More power to you, brother!


Thank you, my Canadian bro!:thumbsup:


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## Proper2 (Dec 8, 2010)

I'm actually not a modeler in that I have not built anything in over two and a half decades. Yet here I am. I love models and I like hanging around here pretending I'm one just to "rub elbows" with the masters and get a "dose" of the hobby. I'll throw in my unqualified opinion here and there just 'cause I can't help myself. :dude:


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## mrstumpy (Oct 5, 2013)

*RE:How many people on earth.....*

I've been building models since I was about eight, maybe a bit sooner. My Dad was a professional model maker for an architecture firm, so he started me young and taught me a lot! Every kid in my neighborhood built model car kits and/or played with trains. I'm 63 now, and have built models of just about everything; cars, trains, planes, ships, and even models of reported UFOs.

I worked in a school for 28 years, and in a hobby shop part time for 22 years. From my observations, model railroading is in the strongest position to survive. While probably the best organized and oldest modeling hobby, it's in big trouble today. Many years ago a Model Railroader magazine/National Model Railroad Association poll claimed there were over three million year around model railroaders. (The "year around" description was meant to differentiate from the Christmas only folks.) A couple of years ago, that number was set at about 750,000.

Well down the popularity "food chain" is sci-fi modeling. In fact in my entire region, there are four of us who do it and I'm only "part time" in it. There are three local hobby shops and only one ever has sci-fi kits. Even then, these kits appear in ones and twos only when a Star Trek or Star Wars movie is out.

Without the Internet and a few dedicated kit makers, anything less than mainstream sci-fi stuff is REAL hard to find around here. And if you like OLD movies and real UFO's you have to be into a lot of kit bashing and scratch building. You tend to find items with similar shapes that can be reworked into what you need and use whatever materials will do the job.

Scratch building is the kind of modeling that is DEFINATELY a dying art, as it requires far too much time, skill, and imagination to gain popularity in today's fast paced, electronic device bound world. Even anything but the simplest "shake the box" kits are getting to be too much effort for most folks.

I recently discovered Hobby Talk and when I stumbled into the sci-fi modeling, it was a revelation! The craftsmanship here is fantastic. And everyone is helpful. You've recharged my gravity nullifier cells!

Granted, I'm a "dinosaur" when it comes to my modeling. I don't build as much or move as fast. But I haven't stumbled into the Tar Pit yet! I'll be building models until the day I wake up looking at the grass from the side with the roots!:thumbsup:

Stumpy Stone in Eastern "Ahia":wave:


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

mrstumpy said:


> I'll be building models until the day I wake up looking at the grass from the side with the roots!:thumbsup:


Here's hoping that you DON'T wake up that way! No zombie apocalypse for YOU!:lol:

Seriously, I'm with you, bro.:thumbsup:


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## teslabe (Oct 20, 2007)

I never really knew many modelers as i grew up, only after joining HT was there
others I could talk modeling with and it's enough for me.....:wave: As far as the hobby fading, as many have said, there sure seems to be a lot of new and reissues coming out and that make me very happy....:thumbsup:


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

mrstumpy said:


> You've recharged my gravity nullifier cells!


Most people here are wonderful and their ability re-charge spent cells is priceless. 
By the way, MrStumpy, Lunar Models used to make several (vacuum-formed?) "real" UFO kits. You may still be able to hunt them down somewhere.


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## J_Indy (Jan 28, 2013)

mrstumpy said:


> Scratch building is the kind of modeling that is DEFINATELY a dying art, as it requires far too much time, skill, and imagination to gain popularity in today's fast paced, electronic device bound world. Even anything but the simplest "shake the box" kits are getting to be too much effort for most folks.
> 
> 
> 
> Stumpy Stone in Eastern "Ahia":wave:


I do think that building things with your hands requires all those things you mention and more. Many times you can tell a person's character by how they deal with a situation that requires skill and imagination, as well as patience and perseverance. It really doesn't matter if the outcome is top-shelf quality - it matters what is going on in that individual. When looking at how many of today's kids act - often all about "me" and "now" - I'd say that something ephemeral but important has been lost.


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

J_Indy said:


> Many times you can tell a person's character by how they deal with a situation that requires skill and imagination, as well as patience and perseverance. It really doesn't matter if the outcome is top-shelf quality - it matters what is going on in that individual.


I curse a lot.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Chrisisall said:


> I curse a lot.


You're definitely one of us, then. :thumbsup:


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## J_Indy (Jan 28, 2013)

Chrisisall said:


> I curse a lot.


And yet you persevere.


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

PerfesserCoffee said:


> You're definitely one of us, then. :thumbsup:


Hahahahahaha! Yes!:thumbsup:


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## mrstumpy (Oct 5, 2013)

*RE:How many people on Earth...*

Yeah, I know all the bad words and keep them in use often! Learned them while working in the school system from the kids!:thumbsup:

Stumpy in Ahia


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

I've found that French and other languages have a wealth of curse words and phrases that, if used habitually, can save one's reputation if you slip in public.


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

PerfesserCoffee said:


> I've found that French and other languages have a wealth of curse words and phrases that, if used habitually, can save one's reputation if you slip in public.


Merde!


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## Paulbo (Sep 16, 2004)

I find that British slang works well, too.


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

Paulbo said:


> I find that British slang works well, too.


When a model falls or a paint smear appears I find the most nasty & foul curses emanating from me- stuff that wouldn't escape my lips from the result of cuts or other _physical _pain. 
I can only imagine plumbers swearing so frequently.


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## Fernando Mureb (Nov 12, 2006)

The moments when I curse the most are those in which the glue "decides" that it will not stick to any place whatsoever except on my fingers.


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

Fernando Mureb said:


> The moments when I curse the most are those in which the glue "decides" that it will not stick to any place whatsoever except on my fingers.


YES! Paper towels are my friend then, but glue becomes my foe!:freak:


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## Carl_G (Jun 30, 2012)

Chrisisall said:


> Merde!


Quebecois French cursing is even more fun, you just string together church-related words until you're not angry anymore. 

_calisse de mon saint-ciboire dans un hostie de tabarnak!!!_


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## 1966TVBATMOBILE (Mar 21, 2013)

Chrisisall said:


> YES! Paper towels are my friend then, but glue becomes my foe!:freak:


Paper towels are your friend until little towel particles stick in the glue. LoL.


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## gman223 (Feb 16, 2010)

I built my first model in 1970 when I was 5, got a biplane for Christmas, still have it in the scrap box. In all that time I've only known 3 other people that build models. Two friend's in high school and my brother in law. I don't even know of a hobby shop within 50 miles of me. So from my perspective not many people do this at all.
As for cursing, oh yeah, then I walk away for awhile. Things don't seem so bad when I come back.


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