# Sandable primer is just impossible to find :(.



## Otto69 (Jan 2, 2004)

I've looked for Krylon sandable primer, and I've looked for Duplicolor sandable primer (at Wal Mart, in California). I did find some anti-rust sandable primer made by someone else, but i'm not sure if this is ok to use (like, what's the anti-rust component?). My Wal Mart didn't even have Dupli Color, they only a line with an unrelated name, seemingly cheap and slightly more expensive lines, as well as Krylon (but no plain sandable primer.

Tomorrow I'm going to a couple actual paint stores. But in the interim, WTH is up with finding sandable primer, particularly in light grey or white? It seems impossible, yet lots of people here seem to find it easily.


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## John O (Mar 8, 2000)

Best place to find sandable primers is where AUTOMOTIVE paints are sold. If you want it in a cheap rattle can try auto parts places like Pep Boys, Advance Auto, Penn Jersey Auto, and the like. Your not likely to to find auto paints like Duplicolor at Walmart, K-Mart or other similar department stores. I seen Krylon paints at some crafts and art stores, but then you're back to hunting. 

If you want excellent sandable primer to shoot through your airbrush, go to your local automotive paint supplier. Buy a quart of Dupont 131 acrylic lacquer primer surfacer and a gallon of lacquer thinner and you'll have more primer than you'll use in 6 months of average model building for way less than you'll wind up spending on lower quality hobby store primers.

John O.


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## PhilipMarlowe (Jan 23, 2004)

Do you have a Michaels? They carry plasti-kote light grey sandable primer which works better and smoother than Krylon imho, and it's about the same price...

Oddly enough though, it's NOT in the model section, but with the crafts stuff.


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## TAY666 (Jan 8, 2000)

John O said:


> Your not likely to to find auto paints like Duplicolor at Walmart, K-Mart or other similar department stores. John O.


Kmart here in NE Ohio caries Duplicolor.
It's not in the paint section with the other rattle cans, it's in the automotive section.


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## JadesDarkHeart (Dec 8, 2003)

Pep Boys cant go wrong there. Plastikote Primer


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## terryr (Feb 11, 2001)

If you're going to use professional sprays a lot get a proper mask. 

A real unit costs a couple hundred bucks but a surplus gas mask works great. As someone told me, a commercial mask is designed to clog (so you buy more), while a miltary unit is designed to stay breathable.


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## sbaxter (Jan 8, 2002)

John O said:


> Your not likely to to find auto paints like Duplicolor at Walmart, K-Mart or other similar department stores.


Wal-Mart here carries Dupli-Color, including their sandable primer. Oddly, they seem to have stopped carrying the gray version, and have started carrying the Rust-Oleum gray primer. That may have been the stuff Otto69 mentioned, but it seems to work about the same as the other sandable primers I've used. Name brands haven't given me any trouble.

I've also found Dupli-Color out the wazoo at Advance Auto Parts, and Home Depot carries a good selection of other brands, including a sandable primer (can't remember which brand).

Qapla'

SSB


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## Big Daddy Dave (Sep 30, 1999)

Now I don't feel so crazy. I have not been able to find the Krylon white sandable in a couple of months. I wonder if they have taken it off the market?


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## sbaxter (Jan 8, 2002)

Big Daddy Dave said:


> Now I don't feel so crazy. I have not been able to find the Krylon white sandable in a couple of months. I wonder if they have taken it off the market?


Given that most other companies offer similar products, I have wondered if maybe it was being reformulated. Seems strange that they would take the existing version off the market first, though.

Qapla'

SSB


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## Big Daddy Dave (Sep 30, 1999)

I just emailed Krylon. I'll let you know what they say. It's not listed in the product guide on the Krylon website either.


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## Vaderman (Nov 2, 2002)

Rust-Oleum makes a sandable primer called Painter's Touch. It is good for wet or dry sanding. Dries to the touch in 20 minutes and to handle in 1 hour. Can put a second coat on after 1 hour. Stuff is great.


Scott


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## MangoMan (Jul 29, 1999)

Rust-o-leum (I think) also makes a "Plastic Primer". Picked up some white at Home Despot, and used it on my Bonehead Fighter. It did a great job of holding on to the resin as I masked and re-masked that puppy.


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## Big Daddy Dave (Sep 30, 1999)

Krylon emailed back and suggested the general use white primer. It seems the sandable has been discontinued. The sandable white worked very well on all media and had minimal build up in thin coats. The Dupli Color I have tried does not seem to have as fine of a pigment and there is a lot more detail lost due to build up. Oh well. Time to shop around for brands.


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## Cougar184 (Jan 8, 2002)

Go to a automotive paint store and get 2 or 3 part primer. This stuff is the BEST! I use it to fill seems, pinholes in resin castings, and The Enterprise A to get rid of the aztec pattern.


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## star-art (Jul 5, 2000)

Does anyone know of a good replacement for 131S "Fill 'n Sand" automotive lacquer-based primer? I'm not crazy about those newer two-part formulas that have to be mixed. The 131s is discontinued and I can't find it anywhere (not even online).

While we're on the subject, what do you guys recommend for a regular (i.e. non-filling) primer that can be shot thorugh an airbrush and won't obscure fine surface details?


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## david merriman (Jun 6, 2002)

star-art said:


> Does anyone know of a good replacement for 131S "Fill 'n Sand" automotive lacquer-based primer? I'm not crazy about those newer two-part formulas that have to be mixed. The 131s is discontinued and I can't find it anywhere (not even online).
> 
> While we're on the subject, what do you guys recommend for a regular (i.e. non-filling) primer that can be shot thorugh an airbrush and won't obscure fine surface details?


Star-art,

Are you in The People's Republic of California ... you know, the left coast, where the issuance of Illegal Driver's licenses is a much more important government concern than the maintenance of a robust, prospering automotive refinishing trade? 

Though the DuPont Lucite brand has all but been banned in California, you can still secure the Lucite gray automotive lacquer primer, 131S and its associated thinners there.

Check out the Yellow pages and look for 'automotive refinishing supplies'. Be on the lookout for one distributor in particular: Mattos. They carry 131S.

David D Merriman lll


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## star-art (Jul 5, 2000)

Thanks David! I'm not in SSCA thank goodness (the Socialist State of California), but I'm in Washington State which has become almost as bad.  All the automotive supply shops here keep telling me that you can't get 131S anymore and they keep wanting me to try a new 2-part primer instead. Are you saying it is now available under the name "Lucite?" I'll check and see if I can find that.

I did a search on Google for 131S and surprisingly little came up. No links to any suppliers that carry it, and all the MSDS links came up as 404 (i.e. page not found).

I'll look for that distributor you mentioned. Thanks again for your help!


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## Brent Gair (Jun 26, 1999)

Here's what I do for a thin, non-filling primer:

I start with a spray can of regular, auto lacquer primer. Those are often too hot to use straight from the can on plastic.

I decant the spray into a container and cut with about 25% paint thinner. Note that's PAINT thinner (white spirit) NOT lacquer thinner. The paint thinner will "cool" it down so it doesn't attack the plastic. It also has the effect of making the primer even thinner than normal. I airbrush the mixture.

That's the mixture use on aircraft models when I need to preserve panel line and rivet detail. Used it on this 1/48 scale Corsair:

http://groups.msn.com/WorldAccordingtoGair/models.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=80


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## david merriman (Jun 6, 2002)

A note to 131S acrylic lacquer primer users: 

This primer can be applied by spray gun or spray brush, piled on wet, directly to styrene, ABS, Acrylic, and Lexan plastic; cured epoxy, polyester, and polyurethane resin; the 'machinable' industrial tooling plastics ... without any fear of solvent damage to the substrate. Period. 

In the twenty-five plus years I've been using 131S primer -- sometimes in near mud-pack thickness - I've observed no ill effects to the substrate.

I've read too many ill-informed posters over the years suggesting that this primer attacks the above materials; the horrible effects 131S has if applied to unprotected plastic surfaces. Those posters are wrong: the miss-informed spouting authoritatively miss-information to the unknowing. I'm tired of it. 

131S is the holly grail of primers: It can be cut to water-thin consistency to preserve surface detail. Or it can be shot mud-thick to contour surfaces. Great flexibility of use, quick flash and dry time, tenacious adhesive property, and the primer won't chemically attack most substrates. If you can't find it, find it! You'll never go back.

(Oh ... those of you singing the praises of Mr. Surfacer as a primer substitute: What do you think Mr. Surfacer is, anyway? That's right: a 131S equivalent, repackaged at exorbitant markup for the not-too-bright hobby store and on-line shoppers).

Find, buy and use 131S primer. Let this be the last word on that.

David D Merriman lll


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## Brent Gair (Jun 26, 1999)

Hmmm...I just want to add a bit here. I hope I'm not being too sensitive and I know that Mr. Merriman's last message was specifically about 131S. But in the off chance that any of those comments were triggered by my post, I do want to make a couple of clarifications.

For several years in the 1980's I ran the paint shop at Standard Aero Limited which is the one of the worlds largest independent overhaulers of gas turbine engines (about 1200 employees here at the Winnipeg plant...branches worldwide). I wasn't "just" a painter...it was MY shop. I held two sets of government qualification stamps for the job: one from Transport Canada and one from the Department of National Defense. I probably inhaled more paint than most modelers will spray in ten lifetimes . People came to my shop from Portugal, Greece, Singapore...even from Cooper Airmotive in Texas to learn how to paint specialty material.

When President Reagan sent those F-111's to bomb Libya, I'm proud to say that the nozzle actuating cylinders on the TF-30 engines were painted by me personally. And they were painted by me because another aerospace company which had the afterburner contract for TF-30's didn't have anybody qualified to paint Sermetel.

Following my stint there, I went to a start up company called Advanced Composite Structures. My job there consisted entirely of finishing composite materials made by the Boeing factory. The composites came to us from Boeing (fairings, doors, etc) and my job was to spray them with an electroconductive coating, prime them and supervise the other painters in the correct process of doing so. The days were 12 hours long and I spent almost ALL of those days in full body chemical suit spray painting.

In my "spare" time, I've sprayed more than a few gallons of 131S at home...including on my '59 Corvette (which I COMPLETELY stripped down to bare fibreglass, inside and out...a full frame-off job).

Again, I only felt compelled to mention that in off-chance that my own post may have raised questions about my qualifications to comment on primers. Apologies if I'm being too defensive.

As I said, most automotive spray can primers (with the excpetion of the scratch-fillers which have a higher percentage of solids) can craze plastic. My comments were specifically about that. It's a subject about which I'm eminently well qualified to speak about.


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## david merriman (Jun 6, 2002)

Brent Gair said:


> Hmmm...I just want to add a bit here. I hope I'm not being too sensitive and I know that Mr. Merriman's last message was specifically about 131S. But in the off chance that any of those comments were triggered by my post, I do want to make a couple of clarifications ...


Brent,

Yup, you're too sensitive, Brent. My comments were not triggered by you.

Clarrifications (if any were needed) are noted. Thanks.

My 'clarrifications' are published.

David,


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## jgoldsack (Apr 26, 2004)

david merriman said:


> Find, buy and use 131S primer. Let this be the last word on that.



Where would one find it? Automotive shops?


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## david merriman (Jun 6, 2002)

jgoldsack said:


> Where would one find it? Automotive shops?


jgoldsack,

I say yet again:

"... Though the DuPont Lucite brand has all but been banned in California, you can still secure the Lucite gray automotive lacquer primer, 131S and its associated thinners there.

Check out the Yellow pages and look for 'automotive refinishing supplies'. Be on the lookout for one distributor in particular: Mattos. They carry 131S".

Please read the entire thread before asking a question previously addressed.


David D Merriman lll


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## jgoldsack (Apr 26, 2004)

Sorry dave. I had read the whole thread twice, but I guess I missed that part... *shrug*


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## david merriman (Jun 6, 2002)

jgoldsack said:


> Sorry dave. I had read the whole thread twice, but I guess I missed that part... *shrug*


No problem, jgoldsack. Even I miss stuff on the first read (all to often, in fact). 

Did you find a local source of 131S?

David,


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## Dave Hussey (Nov 20, 1998)

Nice informative thread.

Brent - in lieu of the keys (  ) I need pics of your Vette!

Huzz


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## Brent Gair (Jun 26, 1999)

I've only got one little pic of the 'Vette available on the net. It's this scan of an early photo:

http://groups.msn.com/WorldAccordingtoGair/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=33

I have a "real" photo album detailing the rebuild but I don't think I've got any photos still posted (I've gotten very disorganized and I USED to have them posted but I think I removed them due to lack of space). I probably left this one photo online because I'm with my dad just before he died.

It was pretty hot-rodded when I got it (as it appears in that photo) and I "de-rodded" it (gave the Cragar Mags to my neighbour, put in a stock interior, etc...).

Btw, for those of you interested (and there must be many ), if you thumb through that little gallery where the 'Vette picture is posted, you actually see two pictures of ME (so you can put a face to my name) and you can see the rare '68 Triumph that I use as a daily driver. Though not in any of the Triumph pictures, it's got a hard top which I spray painted at home to match the rest of the car.


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## trekmodeler (Apr 30, 2004)

Can you use regular lacquer thinner with the 131S or do you need to use the
DuPont brand thinner? Just ordered a quart of the 131S, need to buy some thinner.


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## Dave Hussey (Nov 20, 1998)

All I can see is some guy behind a HUGE pair of sunglasses!


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## John O (Mar 8, 2000)

trekmodeler said:


> Can you use regular lacquer thinner with the 131S or do you need to use the DuPont brand thinner? Just ordered a quart of the 131S, need to buy some thinner.


 You can use regularly available lacquer thinner with 131S. I do it all the time. When I have bought LT from my local Mattos it has usually been whatever housebrand/generic LT they had on hand, but was only a touch more expensive than what's a the Depot. However, and I'm sure someone will correct me if my assumption is mis-guided, I always use a fresh/new can of LT when reducing material for a project I care a lot about and use the left-over open cans for cleaning only.

John O.


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## david merriman (Jun 6, 2002)

trekmodeler said:


> Can you use regular lacquer thinner with the 131S or do you need to use the
> DuPont brand thinner? Just ordered a quart of the 131S, need to buy some thinner.


trekmodeler,

I can't give you a straight answer to that - I've never (intentionally) used an off-brand lacquer thinner to cut DuPont Lucite 131S primer. Use the recommended Lucite lacquer thinner, from the same source from which you secured the primer. 

There are specific formulations of Lucite lacquer thinner (also used to cut the Lucite range of custom and premixed paints), each designed for best results for a given temperature and humidity range. Select the thinner formulated for the temperature-humidity likely to be in your shop or other point of spray application.

(Now the bad news: Lucite paints have been/are bing phased out. I now use the DuPont ChromaSystem paints. Don't panic - the 131S primer and associated thinners are still in the system, and I've been assured they will be for years to come).

David Merriman lll


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## trekmodeler (Apr 30, 2004)

David-thanks for the fast reply and info, it is greatly appreciated!


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## JerseyPhoenix (Jun 2, 2004)

David,

Where am I (not California actually upstate NY where there the answer to "Is _____ near you? is always no) going to find this Fill and Sand primer?

Can I grab it online?

Is it at any MAJOR chain stores?

Can it be ordered through Dupont direct?

Thanks


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## david merriman (Jun 6, 2002)

JerseyPhoenix said:


> David,
> 
> Where am I (not California actually upstate NY where there the answer to "Is _____ near you? is always no) going to find this Fill and Sand primer?
> 
> ...


JerseyPhoenix,

Damit! I've answered that question twice here. Read the frigg'n thread!

David Merriman lll


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## JerseyPhoenix (Jun 2, 2004)

David,

I don't believe you have answered my question. I have read this thing straight through several times now.

You have explained to "Check out the Yellow pages and look for 'automotive refinishing supplies'. Be on the lookout for one distributor in particular: Mattos. They carry 131S." However there is no Mattos anywhere near me and the closest Automotive Refinishing place is about 1 1/2 hours away and they refuse to order it over the phone.

What I asked was "Can I grab it online? Is it at any MAJOR chain stores? Can it be ordered through Dupont direct?"

If you would care to answer those questions I would greatly appriciate the help if not, then the least you can do is be civil about it.


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## david merriman (Jun 6, 2002)

JerseyPhoenix said:


> David,
> 
> I don't believe you have answered my question. I have read this thing straight through several times now.
> 
> ...


JerseyPhoenix,

Find it yourself.

Look up 'civil'.

David Merriman lll


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## jgoldsack (Apr 26, 2004)

Try http://www.automotivetouchup.com/ They don't specify what their sandable primer is, but it is worth looking into I guess. I emailed em to find out if it is similar to the 131S. It looks to only be available in a 12oz spray can for $14 a can.. is that expensive for the stuff? I really don't know, as I have never used primer like this on any of my models, but I will be using it for my AMT Refit E.


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## PhilipMarlowe (Jan 23, 2004)

David or Brent(or anybody else),

Would you recommend the quart size for your basic 3-5 models-a-month modeler. Not trying to be dense, I've always used rattle can primer and the 1315 sounds intriguing, I've been trying a lot of new things thru the airbrush lately! It SEEMS like a quart would last quite a while, especially if thinned.

Is there a significant cost savings by buying more than a quart? Does it store well? My only experience with paint in bulk is with latex housepaints in 5 gallon cans, and most of those have a finite usable lifespan before they are garbage, especially in Florida heat.

Thanks in advance!


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## trekmodeler (Apr 30, 2004)

John
Thanks for your fast reply and info also on the thinner, I did not see your response to my question earlier today, I was at work and in a hurry, just saw it tonight when I was re-reading the post!


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## david merriman (Jun 6, 2002)

PhilipMarlowe said:


> David or Brent(or anybody else),
> 
> Would you recommend the quart size for your basic 3-5 models-a-month modeler. Not trying to be dense, I've always used rattle can primer and the 1315 sounds intriguing, I've been trying a lot of new things thru the airbrush lately! It SEEMS like a quart would last quite a while, especially if thinned.
> 
> ...


Phil,

I'll field this one. 

131S will last many years in the can (even after occasional openings as you transfer from the can to the 'ready service' container). Get the minimum quantity your supplier has. A Gallon of the stuff will last me a year. A quart of 131S and thinner should last the average kit-assembler three years.

A gallon of 131S here runs me about seventy-bucks.

Word of caution: Never cut the bulk stored 131S with thinner -- only the primer in the ready-service container should be cut and used to keep your airbrush charged. Once cut with thinner 131S does begin a very slow state change.

A site with some pictures of the 131S can and use of the primer:

http://www.subcommittee.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?;act=ST;f=27;t=69


David,


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## star-art (Jul 5, 2000)

Dave, I don't care what anyone says about you, that is some great info! 

I have gotten more out of your scratchbuilding articles than probably any other source I have ever read. Thanks again for sharing some of your wealth of experience and know-how on building.

:thumbsup:


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## david merriman (Jun 6, 2002)

star-art said:


> Dave, I don't care what anyone says about you, that is some great info!
> 
> I have gotten more out of your scratchbuilding articles than probably any other source I have ever read. Thanks again for sharing some of your wealth of experience and know-how on building.
> 
> :thumbsup:


star-art,

Nor do I, they are beneath me.

No one here knows more about the craft than I. And you're welcome.

David,


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## John O (Mar 8, 2000)

jgoldsack said:


> I emailed em to find out if it is similar to the 131S. It looks to only be available in a 12oz spray can ...


 If is already packaged in a rattle can, that ain't it. What you're looking for is *DuPont Fill ’N Sand™ Acrylic Primer-Surfacer 131S* and it is only sold in quart or gallon containers as unreduced material (not "thinned", so to say). 

Honestly, there are other brands of lacquer primer surfacers which have similar characteristics and behavior. But IMO what makes 131S good for modeling is precisely that which makes it maddening to auto body painters other than the true auto paint artists - it shrinks _a lot_, thus it won't abscure or fill fine detail unless you lay it on "fat".

I tried a quick search on the web this morning, which turned into a long search, and could not find many vendors at all who were selling paint over the internet. Fillers, tools, shop supplies, but little in the way of paint. Maybe its a matter of what can/can't be shipped over state lines??? Anyway, I've had Mattos ship UPS to my local shop before, so that's a possible way to go.

John O.


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## Raist3001 (Oct 23, 2003)

Try as I might, I can not find anyone who carries Dupont 131S primer. So far this morning, I have called my surrounding auto stores and none carry it, but will recommend other 2 part primers. Nothing much on the internet either. I prefer to use a primer I can shoot thru my airbrush. And since Mr. Merriman recommends the 131s primer, thats good enough for me. I will continue my search and hopefully turn up something. Thanks Mr. Merriman for the advice


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## jgoldsack (Apr 26, 2004)

Raist3001 said:


> Try as I might, I can not find anyone who carries Dupont 131S primer. So far this morning, I have called my surrounding auto stores and none carry it, but will recommend other 2 part primers. Nothing much on the internet either. I prefer to use a primer I can shoot thru my airbrush. And since Mr. Merriman recommends the 131s primer, thats good enough for me. I will continue my search and hopefully turn up something. Thanks Mr. Merriman for the advice



Please let me know if you find some. I have placed a few calls in my area, with no sucess either.


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## Raist3001 (Oct 23, 2003)

jgoldsack said:


> Please let me know if you find some. I have placed a few calls in my area, with no sucess either.


No problem. Let me know if you come up with anything as well

Tony


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## david merriman (Jun 6, 2002)

Raist3001 said:


> Try as I might, I can not find anyone who carries Dupont 131S primer. So far this morning, I have called my surrounding auto stores and none carry it, but will recommend other 2 part primers. Nothing much on the internet either. I prefer to use a primer I can shoot thru my airbrush. And since Mr. Merriman recommends the 131s primer, thats good enough for me. I will continue my search and hopefully turn up something. Thanks Mr. Merriman for the advice


Raist3001,

Not 'auto stores'! 

Pep Boy's, Advanced Auto, NAPA, and the like are the wrong places to look for 131S! You go to the above for a pouch of Redman chew, car radio antenna **** tails, fuzzy 'lucky dice' to hang off the rearview mirror, and NASCAR ball caps emblazoned with numbers corresponding to the toothless wearers IQ - not primer or paint!

Look for: *Automotive Refinishing supply* houses!

Wow.

you're welcome.

David,


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## Raist3001 (Oct 23, 2003)

david merriman said:


> Pep Boy's, Advanced Auto, NAPA, and the like are the wrong places to look for 131S! You go to the above for a pouch of Redman chew, car radio antenna **** tails, fuzzy 'lucky dice' to hang off the rearview mirror, and NASCAR ball caps emblazoned with numbers corresponding to the toothless wearers IQ - not primer or paint!


LOL....Understood



david merriman said:


> Look for: *Automotive Refinishing supply* houses!


Once again, thank you.


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## John O (Mar 8, 2000)

david merriman said:


> Look for: *Automotive Refinishing supply* houses!


Right he is. Here is who I use, Mattos Pro Finishes Perhaps a phone call to one of the local stores listed might get you going. Once you get your fanny into a real auto paint supply house, you'll find many many materials and supplies you'll wonder how you ever lived without - or paid too much for a lower quality or repackaged version of same.

John O.


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## Jabbs (Oct 14, 2003)

I have used J.B. Weld at the seams after assembly and some paint. If you let it set up for about three hours or enough to become more clay-ish, you can use a razor blade or any straight edged device to smooth it in the crack and level it to the rest of the piece. Sanding is easy and it takes to paint well. I'm not saying it's better than anything else but it's easy , cheap and readily available.
Sand down to where you want to be, mask and paint. You're done.


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## Raist3001 (Oct 23, 2003)

I found Dupont 131S primer at a local Carquest auto store not 2 minutes from my home. I bought a quart and I also bought the laquer thinner. I sprayed my first coat to my Enterprise A project. Now, I am sure there is a better Putty to be had from the same store. Any advice?


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## david merriman (Jun 6, 2002)

Raist3001 said:


> I found Dupont 131S primer at a local Carquest auto store not 2 minutes from my home. I bought a quart and I also bought the laquer thinner. I sprayed my first coat to my Enterprise A project. Now, I am sure there is a better Putty to be had from the same store. Any advice?


Raist3001,

For major buildup, contouring, and deep gap filling use the exothermic curing, two-part, heavily filled, polyester pastes produced by Evercoat: Glazing Putty, Euro-Soft, or their Spot-Lite.

For scratches and shallow seam filling use the air dry, lacquer based Nitro-Stan 9001 red touchup putty (in the yellow tube). This can be cut with lacquer thinner for brush applications.

For very light scratches and pinhole filling use 131S applied with a toothpick or pointed paint brush, straight from the ready-service container (once you have 131S at hand you have 'Mr. Surfacer,' in quantity!).

David,


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## Raist3001 (Oct 23, 2003)

*Thanks*

Thank you Dave for your advice and help. It is greatly appreciated. I sprayed my forst coat of 131S last night and was wondering if the fine coat of dust was normal? Did I thin too much? Or not enough? It came off easilly leaving a very smooth surface, even without sanding yet. I also noticed that it did not cover that much on the first pass. I had to control myself into spraying over and over. Maybe I am not mixing properly? 

Tony


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## david merriman (Jun 6, 2002)

Raist3001 said:


> Thank you Dave for your advice and help. It is greatly appreciated. I sprayed my forst coat of 131S last night and was wondering if the fine coat of dust was normal? Did I thin too much? Or not enough? It came off easilly leaving a very smooth surface, even without sanding yet. I also noticed that it did not cover that much on the first pass. I had to control myself into spraying over and over. Maybe I am not mixing properly?
> 
> Tony


Tony,

That fine 'dust' atop the laid down primer is a consequence of several things: 

Your spray brush/gun has too high an air flow, some of the primer is atomizing excessively as it transits from gun to work; you're basically 'powder coating' a portion of the primer onto the surface of previous primer passes. Back down a bit on the spray brush/gun air pressure (I prefer a working pressure between 15-30 PSI). 

You're holding the spray brush/gun too far from the work -- you want the primer to hit the work 'wet.' Less transit time from gun to work means less opportunity for the primer to react with the air -- ambient and that injected into the spray pattern from the compressed air source (a major reason I prefer CO2 as the gas used with my spray equipment). Typical nozzle distance to work while priming is about six inches.

Open up the spray brush/gun nozzle all the way -- if you're using the Paache H model brush, select the #3 tip. You want to have the maximum primer/air mix ratio. More primer, less gas.

And you likely have not cut the 131S with enough thinner. 

Short version: Lower the air pressure; hold the nozzle closer to the work (and make slower passes); maximize the primer/air ratio; and cut the primer with more thinner.

I have spoken, so let it be written!

David,


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## Bobman (Jan 21, 2001)

A question Dave.

What about clean-up for the air brush? Being a primer, would this be harder to clean out of the air brush? If so, I was thinking of using Jet pack from Sherwin Williams. It's a small unit for $4.00 that uses a can of compressed air for touch ups. Just a thought. Thanks for the info on 131S primer. I use Dupli-Color Self-Etching Primer from Advance Auto Parts myself. Have you ever used it and if so, how does it compare?

Bob


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## jgoldsack (Apr 26, 2004)

Raist3001 said:


> I found Dupont 131S primer at a local Carquest auto store not 2 minutes from my home. I bought a quart and I also bought the laquer thinner. I sprayed my first coat to my Enterprise A project. Now, I am sure there is a better Putty to be had from the same store. Any advice?


Hey how much did that cost ya? I am going to visit the local Carquest shop this weekend, and want to make sure I have enough $$ to cover it.


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## Raist3001 (Oct 23, 2003)

jgoldsack said:


> Hey how much did that cost ya? I am going to visit the local Carquest shop this weekend, and want to make sure I have enough $$ to cover it.


A quart of 131S primer cost me 34.00, and the gallon of Laquer thinner cost me 13.00.

I have more primer than I know what to do with


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## david merriman (Jun 6, 2002)

Bobman said:


> A question Dave.
> 
> What about clean-up for the air brush? Being a primer, would this be harder to clean out of the air brush? If so, I was thinking of using Jet pack from Sherwin Williams. It's a small unit for $4.00 that uses a can of compressed air for touch ups. Just a thought. Thanks for the info on 131S primer. I use Dupli-Color Self-Etching Primer from Advance Auto Parts myself. Have you ever used it and if so, how does it compare?
> 
> Bob


Bob,

When I clean the primer loaded airbrush ... sometimes the tool sits on its hook for weeks between intermittent use without cleaning, exhibiting no clogging or other negative issues, as long as there is primer in the cup and the pickup hose ... I simply use the same thinner used to cut the primer -- very easy cleanup.

I have two ready-service airbrushes hooked up to the manifold and at hand: one always loaded with primer, the other clean and ready to shoot paint or wash. Both are Paasche H models equipped with #3 tips.

Can't speak to the 'Jet pack' and 'Dupli-Color Self-Etching Primer,' I have no practical experience with either.

David,


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## Raist3001 (Oct 23, 2003)

Ok, can someone tell me other than a full fledged gas mask, what I can use to protect myself from the primer(131S) and thinner vapors? Last night I used a simple doctors mask, covered my eyes, and had a fan blowing away from me. Although, I was able to work, I could still at times get a whiff of the vapors. Potent stuff!! I plan on building a paintbooth with ventialtion, but until then, what can you guys reccomend?

Tony


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## david merriman (Jun 6, 2002)

Raist3001 said:


> Ok, can someone tell me other than a full fledged gas mask, what I can use to protect myself from the primer(131S) and thinner vapors? Last night I used a simple doctors mask, covered my eyes, and had a fan blowing away from me. Although, I was able to work, I could still at times get a whiff of the vapors. Potent stuff!! I plan on building a paintbooth with ventialtion, but until then, what can you guys reccomend?
> 
> Tony


Any 'professional' charcoal filtered type mask will do - same source from where you secured the primer and thinner.

David,


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## Raist3001 (Oct 23, 2003)

I was hoping this might do until my 'professional' one arrives...

http://www.allergybegone.com/5206.html


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## david merriman (Jun 6, 2002)

Raist3001 said:


> I was hoping this might do until my 'professional' one arrives...
> 
> http://www.allergybegone.com/5206.html


Raist3001,

I believe the mask at the above site has charcoal elements. You're good. Blast away.

David,


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## Raist3001 (Oct 23, 2003)

david merriman said:


> You're good. Blast away.
> 
> David,


LOL....Thanks Dave, I intend to

Tony


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## Bobman (Jan 21, 2001)

Thanks Dave.

Bob


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## Raist3001 (Oct 23, 2003)

My 3M mask worked just fine. I was unable to smell anything while working with it on. I sprayed another coat last night and I guess I still must work out the mix ratio since the primer is going on very light. At least I was able to spray without dust coating I am not getting an even coat yet as well. My air presure is right around 25. Practice makes perfect Or so I hear.....


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

I used to use the 131s until it became unavailable in my area about 6 years ago. 

I now use Advantage 301 Gray Primer/Surfacer. It's the only thing I could get that was even close to the Dupont stuff. I can get it in either quart or gallon cans.


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## david merriman (Jun 6, 2002)

http://navyandmarine.org/AlligatorArtwork/ModelPictures/LargeJPGs/AlligatorModel_Series01n.jpg


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## Otto69 (Jan 2, 2004)

I found a can or two of sandable white primer at a local "Pep Boys" auto store. I really had to hunt for it. The store I've always bought automotive paint/care stuff at before (for my car) which is a paint only store, had 1 rack of Dupli Color but no primer .


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## Tom Curda (Jul 16, 2004)

New to the forum here...

I've read this thread with great interest, and I've been copy/pasting the usage info for future reference. I found a local source for 131S. My question is, has anyone tried using 131S as a primer for Alclad or other metalizers? I'm thinking that if I polish it using up to 2000 grit or so, it should work well, seeing as the stuff is virtually the same as Mr. Surfacer.

Tom


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## david merriman (Jun 6, 2002)

Tom Curda said:


> New to the forum here...
> 
> I've read this thread with great interest, and I've been copy/pasting the usage info for future reference. I found a local source for 131S. My question is, has anyone tried using 131S as a primer for Alclad or other metalizers? I'm thinking that if I polish it using up to 2000 grit or so, it should work well, seeing as the stuff is virtually the same as Mr. Surfacer.
> 
> Tom


Tom,

I've used the 131S as the substrate to many a 'metalized' paint system with excellent results -- the toroid reflector, an element of the 'wheel' type space station model which took Gold at Wonderfest a few years past, is one example of a buffable metallic paint applied directly over 131S primer. 

The primer can be polished and buffed to a high luster -- ready for application of a metallic paint, be it bluffable or non-buffable.

David,


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## chasd25 (Feb 14, 2002)

Another excellant primer out there (very similar to 131S) is Sherwin Williams P2A43 Ultra Fill sanding primer. I've used both (I can no longer get 131S), and I cannot honestly tell the difference between them (except Ultra Fill costs a bit more!).

My local Sherwin Williams does not carry it, I get it at (like Dave said) at an automotive finishing supply house. 

I pay $100+ for a gallon, which lasts me about a year. Great stuff, might be another option for those of you who can't find 131S.

Charlie


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## Tom Curda (Jul 16, 2004)

david merriman said:


> The primer can be polished and buffed to a high luster -- ready for application of a metallic paint, be it bluffable or non-buffable.
> 
> David,


Hi David,

Thanks for the info, it looks like this will be the solution to a number of needs. I'll be doing the PL NX-01 in Alclad, and I'm also converting an AM B-25B to the North American prototype which will need a metal finish also.

Tom


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## david merriman (Jun 6, 2002)

Tom Curda said:


> Hi David,
> 
> Thanks for the info, it looks like this will be the solution to a number of needs. I'll be doing the PL NX-01 in Alclad, and I'm also converting an AM B-25B to the North American prototype which will need a metal finish also.
> 
> Tom


Tom,

Print progress shots of the putty/priming/sanding-polishing/Alclad/buffing sequence you perform to this thread to help the no-talents looking over our shoulders to pick up a few pointers. 

Might as well make this a useful thread for the uninitiated. Too many threads on these boards fade away before the questions posited are adequately answered -- a combination of short attention span and weak group knowledge base (or worse yet: dissemination of flawed information from self-appointed 'experts' - something I see too much of here).


David,


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## Tom Curda (Jul 16, 2004)

david merriman said:


> Tom,
> 
> Print progress shots of the putty/priming/sanding-polishing/Alclad/buffing sequence you perform to this thread to help the no-talents looking over our shoulders to pick up a few pointers.
> 
> ...


Hi David,

I think I can do that.  I plan to take numerous in-progress shots of the NX-01 for an article I'm doing, and I can post those and similar shots of the B-25 as I go through the finishing process. It'll be a month or so before I start the NX-01 though. 

Thanks again for the help.

Tom


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## Tom Curda (Jul 16, 2004)

After several discussions with my local automotive paint distributor (Metro Paint Supplies in Elgin, IL) and a call to DuPont's technical support 800 number, I have determined that 131S is no longer available in quarts. Gallon quantities will be available for the forseeable future; the DuPont tech support guy said there are no plans to discontinue 131S. Quarts of 131S may be on distributor's shelves but once stocks run out they cannot reorder more.

He also said that the shelf life of an opened gallon container is indefinite as long as the container is properly sealed; he has had a partially used gallon for over two years, and the 131S is still like new.

The distributor had suggested a quart of DuPont 30S, but I found out that this is a nitrocellulose lacquer primer, not acrylic, and it would probably be too hot for polystyrene.

Price for the gallon of 131S I bought was right at $99 plus $11 for the reducer. I decanted some into a pint Mason jar and I'll be trying it out this weekend.

HTH for those of you trying to locate this stuff.

Tom


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## John O (Mar 8, 2000)

Tom Curda said:


> He also said that the shelf life of an opened gallon container is indefinite as long as the container is properly sealed; he has had a partially used gallon for over two years, and the 131S is still like new.


Yup. Me too. I always over buy for certain jobs and end up with a good supply left at the end. I have some quantities that are maybe 4-5 years old and are still good to use. Seal them well and keep the cans in a closed metal cabinet - proper flammables cabinet with vent duct is a good idea if you can afford it, but not neccessary for small qualitities.

John O.


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## zysurge (Sep 6, 2002)

david merriman said:


> http://navyandmarine.org/AlligatorArtwork/ModelPictures/LargeJPGs/AlligatorModel_Series01n.jpg


Sorry to dredge this old thread up again, but....

In the picture above, Dave Merriman shows using Dupont 3661S lacquer thinner. But, on the Dupont web site, they recommend 3665S thinner. See http://www.performancecoatings.dupont.com/dpc/en/us/html/prodinfo/chromasystem/H-19301_131S.pdf

I'm wondering if: One is a replacement for the other, or if Dave uses the 3661S for a specific reason? Just trying to make sure I end up buying the right stuff.

Thanks.


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