# Over voltage on Lipo packs



## 98Ron

Recently I attend an race where on the flyer they had a max voltage for the lipo classes. It was tech at the tech bench. A couple of racers batteriers where over the max volts posted. One was .01 over the other was over 8.50 not sure how much over. The tech dude had the drivers run there cars a few laps and rechecked the voltage, it was then found to be at or below the posted voltage. The racer was allowed to run the heat or main. This reoccurred on these same cars during the event.
After the race I took the race promoter aside and asked it he was aware of the happening. He said, yes. And that that was a thing that ROAR had satrted (this was not a ROAR event) and he said that he had heard (we all know about the I heard stuff) that at the Nats they even had a discharger at tech to bring down the voltage it your battery was above the post number.

An aside, I was at the ROAR region 3 ovals at Easley in May, this over voltage isues was noted a few times and the racers where not allowed to run the heats wher tech noted the hight volt number. Right on Donny.

Back the to point, what si the purpose of the rule? To limit voltage, NO, it is a saftey thing. If over voltage is allowed to be sactioned by tech/promoters sooner or later some bad will happen, then what?? The reaction will be huge and negitive.

WAKE UP OUT there. I believe if a racer presents a car for tech with an over voltage condition, they should be disqualified from the heat, if it occurs a second time they should be disquilified from the event period.


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## AJS

I Couldn't agree more!!!!!!


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## C43GO

I agree too.


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## Dpreston

Ron he was not that high on the Voltage..Look at the lap times he was nowere close to Tom. I see your point but it was a club race..A national yes DQ for that heat sounds good. I just think it's fliping funny as hell people think that its the voltage that they are getting beat by in lipo. Tom's car went through the corrner smoother then silk.. I thought my car was good and I was a lap in a half off. So that being said......Work on the car ron.


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## Dpreston

http://thunder.rcresults.com/2008SpringFCCOval/


Look at Matt Stegman's times. This is who Ron is talking about. Yes he was a tad over charged...Did it matter? NO. We could have all been overcharged and still would have got are rears handed to us by Tom. 

For some reason I think this thread has NOTHING to do with saftey.. More like damaged Ego's!


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## davepull

Preston your missing the point the limit is set for safety reasons. 

here is a question just because you set your charger to cutoff at 8.4 volts doesn't mean that it is actually cutting off at that. every charger is different. so it is entirely possiable that the racer had a cutoff set to 8.4 but on his charger that is a little higher.


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## Dpreston

I get the Point it's Saftey. 

Before I left Minnreg I over heard 3 people talking about Matt, then one says "tom has to be cheating" LMFAO So thats were my post came from because one of them was in this thread already!

Now I'm not going to drop names but its funny this thread pops up right after...Hmm 

Let me guess now Boylan is going to get slamed on here because Matt got to race.. bs


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## 98Ron

DP, YOU MISSED THE POINT!!!! Your narrowness of vision is a problem.

I am not worried about how fast someone's car was or wasn't. My skills as a driver suck, I could use Tom car and I would not be much faster than I am with my car.

THIS IS ABOUT SAFTEY!!!!!!! yes I am yelling!!!!!!!

BTW, did you notice I did not mention what race or who, thats not important.

Did you notice the responses above yours? Why did they responsed the way they did?

So it is ok to have a lipo meltdown at a local race, have the fire department investigate. what happened, not be able to use the facility again. Loose the venue for the snowbirds because is it was only a local race!!!!

A year ago many track operator's would not let lipos at the track, because of all the bad press. With what appears as lipo being our future. If we have one, just one incident, this hobby is done


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## Dpreston

98Ron said:


> DP, YOU MISSED THE POINT!!!! Your narrowness of vision is a problem.
> 
> No Ron I just see through the BS. Mike asked you to keep it on the Down low so you leave Thunder and come to HT. Like these guys couldn't put 2 and 2 together and figure out what race it was..


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## brian0525

Was inductance checked on the 21.5 motors?


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## Dpreston

No it wasn't.


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## brian0525

Ouch!


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## Dpreston

I don't even own a lipo charger yet, I had a fellow racer charge mine and it was over.. I had to discharge it some to race. 

Dave thats a good point on the cut off. Mabye we should set the cut off in the charger a tad bit lower?


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## davepull

98Ron said:


> DP, YOU MISSED THE POINT!!!! Your narrowness of vision is a problem.
> 
> I am not worried about how fast someone's car was or wasn't. My skills as a driver suck, I could use Tom car and I would not be much faster than I am with my car.
> 
> THIS IS ABOUT SAFTEY!!!!!!! yes I am yelling!!!!!!!
> 
> BTW, did you notice I did not mention what race or who, thats not important.
> 
> Did you notice the responses above yours? Why did they responsed the way they did?
> 
> So it is ok to have a lipo meltdown at a local race, have the fire department investigate. what happened, not be able to use the facility again. Loose the venue for the snowbirds because is it was only a local race!!!!
> 
> A year ago many track operator's would not let lipos at the track, because of all the bad press. With what appears as lipo being our future. If we have one, just one incident, this hobby is done


 
I am following you Ron good post 

let me add is to the point I made about the cutoff on the charger. if it were me in practice I would set my cutoff to 8.4 charger the pack let it sit then repeak pull it off the charger and go to tech and use the meter and see what it says . if it is over there are several things you can do 1st would be alert the race officials. and let them know. next is lower your cut off. 


But IMHO nothing should be kept on the down low.


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## 98Ron

Mr. Preston, Mike did not ask me to keep it on the down low about lipo over charge. He did ask me not to post about an on track incident of which I was not involved. I did not post about it.

I have raced aginst the best rc racers in the world and had my butt handed to me by all of them. I have no ego with regard to RC racing, I just want to be safe and have a hobby in play in for the future.


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## Dpreston

Ron the ego comment was not directed at you. He knows who he is..


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## katf1sh

found it! lol

damn lipos!


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## 18TLateModel

Yes I was overvoltage but ron you got your butt handed to you all day long. We all did for that matter. Tom was at 58 laps and David and myself were at 57 in the main. My car sat there for 20 min after it had charged before we went out to the main. David if I remember right you were at the same voltage as I was before the main. Oh and david I will see you sunday at MTR so you can talk to me face to face.


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## Fl Flash

98Ron said:


> A couple of racers batteriers where over the max volts posted. One was .01 over the other was over 8.50 not sure how much over.


 I was standing in line for tech in the main, 1st time was 8.55 volts car was ran a couple laps second check was still 8.50 volts car was ran a few more laps, dont know what the final check read because I had already passed Tech and moved to the stand.....shaking my head. I can see coming to tech .01 or .02 over due to charger variance, but this was Way over.
This IS a Safety Rule that needs to be inforced and racers need to be let known it will be inforced. I agree with Ron one Fire in the building and we wont be racing Lipo OR nimh there ANYMORE.


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## 18TLateModel

I wish if people had a problem they would have said something at the race instead of jumping on the forums to talk it up. I guess keyboard courage is running rampant again and nobody has testicular fortatude for say it to my face or bring it up in conversation. Brian0525 I know it was not inductance that I was beat by but a much better handling race car and a better driver in Tom.


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## Dpreston

:wave:


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## Fl Flash

Fl Flash said:


> This IS a Safety Rule that needs to be inforced and racers need to be let known it will be inforced. I agree with Ron one Fire in the building and we wont be racing Lipo OR nimh there ANYMORE.


 I get my Butt handed to me all the time  my concern is with a Safety Rule not being inforced and the possible implications to OUR racing if some continue to disregard the Safety rule.


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## katf1sh

it appears that ron and a few others have a major problem with allowing overcharging to take place. and in the future ron and the other racers would like to see you DQ'd before the race starts..this way maybe next time you won't allow the charger to keep on charging...

this way guys in trailers can over charge and check voltage with a meter until it's right.....

and ron hagan is one of the nice guys we race with..and he does understand what it takes to win and go fast...ron has stopped caring about being the fastest a long long time ago...he races now to have fun and help others...he just wants to see the over charging stop asap...


how many of you guys own and used a lipo sack? 1 maybe 2 lol

smokey the bear says..."you better not melt down minnreg"


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## Fl Flash

After looking at Hopetons to see how there made I,ve already ordered one for the price theres no excuse.

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/WTI0095P?FVSEARCH=lipo+charging+sack&search=Go


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## Dpreston

What about the nimh situation. 2 packs blew up..Went off like a shot gun blast. Kal barly got it out of his hand before it blew up. To me there just as dangerous but no one cares how hard we charge them.


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## RCThunder

Thank you Ron for the nice discussion we had the track. The voltage rule was honestly a 'speed performance' concern of mine as I am really not caught up with the Lipo racing yet. But after thinking about it from a different viewpoint I can see the bigger issue of safety, not speed. 

The incident comment was a friendly jab between Ron, Irish, and I when I drafted into Jeff and took us both out haha. That was it. I was teasing Ron not to post my hair brain take out move LOL.

The issue with Sub-C's blowing still worries me. Kal had the one shotgun go off - and it was a pack I loaned him that I got at the Masters last year (a 4200). 

Good thread. I think it will help the future of the class.

Also was thinking, does anyone like Venom, or someone, make an on-board voltmeter cars would be mandated to run (if the price was right). This could make things a whole lot easier, for all the heats and mains, on a local level too.


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## irvan36mm

The 8.4v rule is more for parity (so we won't have any overcharging discussions like this) and safety. A lot of us carry voltmeters in our pit boxes/trailers,why not check your voltage (and discharge the excess) and keep within the track rules before going to tech?
-George


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## irvan36mm

RCThunder said:


> Also was thinking, does anyone like Venom, or someone, make an on-board voltmeter cars would be mandated to run (if the price was right). This could make things a whole lot easier, for all the heats and mains, on a local level too.


Venom makes one. So does Dynamite ($29.99).


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## RCThunder

Nice looking!


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## irvan36mm

I'll have to go to HW sometime & see how big this thing really is. It kinda reminds me of my alarm clock! LOL
http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_info.php/products_id/18740

If the track or event rules state that I had to run one of these,I personally wouldn't have a problem doing it.


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## DOUGHBOY

this is a great idea but i do see one problem most receivers only have 4 ports 1) servo 2) seedo 3) person trans 4) receiver capaciter where do you guys plan on pluging this thing in.. and on the other side of this i wouldn't mind having to run one since right now i am trying to find ways to get more weight on my car... i was not there this weekend but one thing i am sure of is mike boylan is not going to do anything shady and then ask people not to say anything. i also agree that this is more of a safety thing than an advantage issue. before i really started reading this i was thinking who cares if some one is 5-10 mah over make them run some laps to even it out and then as i read this it started making sense safety for every one is first and if someone wants to put other people in a possible dangerous situation then maybe they should take the week off....us guys running lipo are kind of like guinea pigs "sorry if its misspelled" all its going to take is a couple really bad stories and we might be finding another new power source i am starting to close to having to much invested to just walk away and start over. lets get our stuff together """play""" by the rules and have fun.. with out hurting any one


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## 18TLateModel

Doughboy you don't have to run the spektrum voltage cap if you are running lipo or 6 cell for that matter.


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## 98Ron

Mike, thanks for listening.

BTW, the meter plugged into the received will not read the drive battery voltage only the received pack voltage.

And again, I think you may be missing the point of the rule as ROAR intended (yea I know for the most part most of you don't care what ROAR has to say) IT is for saftey, so metering your battery and then dumping the surface charge is just working around the rule. Overcharge is still a saftey issue.


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## 98Ron

Kat, thank you for understanding my position, you are more observant that I took you for. That's a compliment, se ya at Strickland.


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## brian0525

18TLateModel said:


> Brian0525 I know it was not inductance that I was beat by but a much better handling race car and a better driver in Tom.


I am glad you are convinced of that and you might be right. I was convinced the same for 2 months till we found out different and I actually had a better car the whole time!


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## 18TLateModel

Brian; Tom also won the 10.5 a-main. He also helped me make my car better, and he has a reputation to uphold in this sport as a sponsored driver and an all around great person as far as i'm concerened, so yes I am convinced he kicked my butt because his car was handling far better than mine. I think dpreston would also agree.


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## RCThunder

Here is 'our' boy Ron Hagan back in the day. Yes that is me and Ron about 15 years ago at least. I respect Ron's outlook, as everyone's, and it is great to see guys like Ron still racing and passionate about our hobby as they were then, and now.


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## brian0525

18TLateModel said:


> Brian; Tom also won the 10.5 a-main. He also helped me make my car better, and he has a reputation to uphold in this sport as a sponsored driver and an all around great person as far as i'm concerened, so yes I am convinced he kicked my butt because his car was handling far better than mine. I think dpreston would also agree.


You have totally missed the point! I have raced with Tom and I know he is a solid racer and never said he did anything, so stop twisting!!!!

When running 21.5's there is a whole batch of earlier 21.5 motors that aren't what they are supposed to be and sometimes you can be chasing something that can't be caught if the person that is fast has one of these motors and is any good(which Tom is) you will never catch the person with a legit motor! With that said you caould be right that it wasn't one of these motors but you will never know without checking.

There isn't just a couple of these motors there are most likely about 50 or more. I personally know of at least 12!

People are running them and don't even know it until they compare back to back runs with only the motor swap and then you see a lap plus lost when running a legit 21.5 motor.


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## irvan36mm

98Ron said:


> ..... Overcharge is still a saftey issue.


It definitely is,especially in the pits or in a trailer.


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## DOUGHBOY

98ron you may want to reread my post i am agreeing with you 100% what i said was that at first i didn't think it was that big of a deal but after reading this whole thread i started to get it and that i agree with you 100% please read it again.....


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## Tom Pedano

We all agree that 13.5 4cell and 21.5 lipo are the same speed right?
Look at the lap times from the ROAR Nats for 13.5 (miller, kimpton and myself)
And look at my 21.5 lipo the lap times from this past race, my car still is not as fast as it could be.
As far as my motor being questionable, I don’t think that is the case, but my motor has never been tested. If anybody wants to test it, I have no problem with that, but you will be disappointed with the results. BTW I only have (1) 21.5 motor.
http://thunder.rcresults.com/2008RoarCarpetOval/
http://thunder.rcresults.com/2008SpringFCCOval/


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## 98Ron

doughboy, I reread your post. I understand that you understand. I did not present my position of metering and bleedoff well. I was responding to an earlier post about working around the rule, not yours. 

Mike, you where young back then!!!!!! The gray t bird days. That car had a lota miles put on it.


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## Dpreston

Tom beats me every weekend, Sunday it wasn't any diffrent. Tom is the man to beat in whatever class he runs in. Thats why I thought it was funny to hear someone call him a cheat..


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## brian0525

Dpreston said:


> Tom beats me every weekend, Sunday it wasn't any diffrent. Tom is the man to beat in whatever class he runs in. Thats why I thought it was funny to hear someone call him a cheat..


who called him a cheat?


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## davepull

nobody called nobody a cheat this thread is so fockin stupid. 

here it is Black and White the 8.4 volt rule is there for safety point blank. 

Stegman if you let your pack sit for 20 mins and it was still over 8.4 volts 

then i have to ask you what was your cut off at? asuming it is set to 8.4 then you should really link about sending that charger in to be calibrated. you have a potential fire fock ball on your hands


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## Dpreston

brian0525 said:


> who called him a cheat?


LMAO I walked up on three of the Lipo 21.5 racers Sunday, One of them thinks Tom is cheating. It wasn't posted on here. It was just somthing I heard at the track thats all. I'm sure "racer x" wont come on here and post what he thinks though 

I attended the Nats so I saw how fast Miller was in 13.5 so there is still more speed in 21.5.

I had to borrow a motor from Stegman to race I don't even own one yet.


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## DOUGHBOY

well i guess we can officially say that we are now beating a dead horse lets all move on i think everything has been aired out and i think this thread was actually educational for some atleast i know it was for me...


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## katf1sh

the young and old grasshoppers need remember there is nothing...nothing that will make us all equal! not lipo not brushless not spec! some guys try alot harder than others and are better drivers and wrenches.......someone has to win and someone has to lose.

tom builds his own cars..from cutting his own chassis to using a chassis dyno at his house..the guy comes to the track ready for war.......so yes it is toms fault he is fast...it's our fault we can't catch him!

it's not his motor..tom checks his own motors before race day.......it's not his lipo pack........he is good...he is the top 1% in florida..........

but remember this....when all the oval heads in the country come to race tom is not the fastest car on the track! fast is just relative to who you are racing with.......there is always someone faster! 

you all need lipo sacks and you all need to charge those packs to the legal limit!


as for 4200 old azz packs that sgould be thrown away blowing up...use thos old things at your own risk! the newer cells do not have nearly as many problems as the old ones do....

things will happen........we need to do our best to be safe........

c u cheaters at stricklands ahahahahahahahahah


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## RPM

WOW!

*Overcharging lipos * does very little for speed and adds *more heat * to the motor due to the increase in watts. 

*Watts= voltage X amps*

Since the 21.5 motor is on the lower-end of brushed motors I personal see very little difference in lap times from 8.4 volts to 8.6 volts.

Do you need to *Overcharging lipos *? No.
Setup and Driving is still key.


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## katf1sh

RPM said:


> WOW!
> 
> very little difference in lap times from 8.4 volts to 8.6 volts.
> 
> .


 
is that very little or none? cause a little goes a long way!


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## RPM

katf1sh said:


> is that very little or none? cause a little goes a long way!


Really is *no advantage *to overcharging your lipo pack (past 8.44 volts)when your running a small 21.5 motor.

If you are overcharging past 10 volts (cutoff) then it become a risk of fire.

I guess there are people out there that think its an advantage and
continues to overcharge at a higher voltage cutoff.

This could be a potential fire risk.

Lipos are safe if charged wisely.

*Lipos is the new electric.... * LOL

I couldn't resist...


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## irvan36mm

katf1sh said:


> the young and old grasshoppers need remember there is nothing...nothing that will make us all equal! not lipo not brushless not spec! some guys try alot harder than others and are better drivers and wrenches.......someone has to win and someone has to lose.
> 
> tom builds his own cars..from cutting his own chassis to using a chassis dyno at his house..the guy comes to the track ready for war.......so yes it is toms fault he is fast...it's our fault we can't catch him!
> 
> it's not his motor..tom checks his own motors before race day.......it's not his lipo pack........he is good...he is the top 1% in florida..........
> 
> but remember this....when all the oval heads in the country come to race tom is not the fastest car on the track! fast is just relative to who you are racing with.......there is always someone faster!
> 
> you all need lipo sacks and you all need to charge those packs to the legal limit!
> 
> 
> as for 4200 old azz packs that sgould be thrown away blowing up...use thos old things at your own risk! the newer cells do not have nearly as many problems as the old ones do....
> 
> things will happen........we need to do our best to be safe........
> 
> c u cheaters at stricklands ahahahahahahahahah


 Well said,Kat.:thumbsup:

As a race director at Hobby World in Jacksonville,FL for the last few years,I've had the pleasure of teching Tom's cars on several occasions Actually,he's _given _them to me to look at without my asking-that's how much of a stand-up guy he is. His cars are probably the most legit I've ever seen. No funny stuff on those cars-period.

Imagine if we all had his coordination and his knowledge?? (the _real_ speed secret!)
-George


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## katf1sh

we would be called cheaters! ahahahahahahaha


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## Dpreston

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: Well put Kat


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## RCThunder

If Tom was cheating I would sell my stuff. The guys at the top level love this hobby too much to waste their time finding ways to cheat. Home Depot and Wal-Mart trust everyone with self check-out, we should be able to trust racers I would hope...


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## irvan36mm

katf1sh said:


> we would be called cheaters! ahahahahahahaha


You'd probably be right! LOL
Yes,you should be able to trust your fellow racers,but due to the competitive nature of our hobby,there's that 1% that's going to actually try and cheat. (Tom doesn't fall into that category,at all) That's why there's Tech inspections & rules.


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## katf1sh

from time to time it does happen..and 99.99% of the time it's guys in the weeds and it makes little difference..kinda sad realy..at least win if your gonna cheat!


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## swtour

Being that LIPO is still something most of us are learning, I think education needs to be shared with more racers.

For instance the "INTERNET" world knows about a lot of the Lipo 'overcharging' issues, but a lot of guys at local and/or regional tracks that don't spend a lot of time on the 'net, have no clue. We had a non-regular racer at one of our last series races, plus he's new to the lipo game. His batteries tested high on voltage, and didn't understand any of this "overcharging" deal. He just plugged his packs in and charged them.

When we announced anyone over charged when they come to tech would not run, he was just a bit upset to find himself in that situation. Some of the other drivers were able to get things taken care of with him and all worked out well...plus it let us see how inconsistant a number of volt meters were in the 105 degree sun. (No HEATING Pads were needed that day)

I have found a few chargers that will easily overcharge, and really need to be watched.

Most of the small, inexpensive ones (about one inch thick, by about 4" x 5") whether the Orion Avionics, the ProPeak Prodigy or similar....you really have to make sure they are *NOT IN NiMh Mode*


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## SMROCKET

I think it is important to remember that people dont get fast with a new batt or a new motor , Hell I only have one of each 13.5 and 10.5 and Im fine with it ... My car is always fast , in Fla the car drove itself and I was running new JBR blue cells ... Wish I had the newer batch BUT its all in the car .... Could run anyones motor and go fast ..... From racing with and talking with Tom and his brother they understand that chassis is first then throw the voltage and motor in and your done .,...

LIPO racing is still new to me but again car very fast with 4 cell or Lipos .... I look ofrward to going to Easley to get schooled by the cpa tire guys ....

ROCKET


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## Fl Flash

98Ron said:


> Recently I attend an race where on the flyer they had a max voltage for the lipo classes. It was tech at the tech bench. A couple of racers batteriers where over the max volts posted. One was .01 over the other was over 8.50 not sure how much over. The tech dude had the drivers run there cars a few laps and rechecked the voltage, it was then found to be at or below the posted voltage. The racer was allowed to run the heat or main. This reoccurred on these same cars during the event.
> After the race I took the race promoter aside and asked it he was aware of the happening. He said, yes. And that that was a thing that ROAR had satrted (this was not a ROAR event) and he said that he had heard (we all know about the I heard stuff) that at the Nats they even had a discharger at tech to bring down the voltage it your battery was above the post number.
> 
> An aside, I was at the ROAR region 3 ovals at Easley in May, this over voltage isues was noted a few times and the racers where not allowed to run the heats wher tech noted the hight volt number. Right on Donny.
> 
> Back the to point, what si the purpose of the rule? To limit voltage, NO, it is a saftey thing. If over voltage is allowed to be sactioned by tech/promoters sooner or later some bad will happen, then what?? The reaction will be huge and negitive.
> 
> WAKE UP OUT there. I believe if a racer presents a car for tech with an over voltage condition, they should be disqualified from the heat, if it occurs a second time they should be disquilified from the event period.


 This is the Original Post and Concern.


I,m not sure where this thread turned to imply that Tom Pedano ( Tom P. was not the "racer" who came to Tech GROSSLY OVERCHARGED ) or anyone else for that matter was Cheating! The results of this race and Many Many others shows that Tom Pedano whips our collective ASSES on a REGULAR BASIS. 
Both mine and Rons concerns where the Safety issue,s involved in overcharging Lipo packs and how the current rules applying to it ( the 8.44 at tech rule ) are to be implemented. 
MY biggest concern is the possibilty of Fire due to overchargeing of Lipo,s affecting Our Race ( this race is at an indoor facilty that is rented for the race and the majority of pitting/charging is done inside the building ) and others. We have ONE Carpet Oval race track in Florida and this is IT!!!
I really enjoy carpet raceing ( I travel 400 miles round trip to attend this race ) even though I suck at it I do not want to lose this race venue due to someones ignorance of the Safety Factors involved in battery chargeing.


My personal public apologizes go to Tom Pedano for any part I might have had in others thinking he has ever cheated. Toms a stand up guy who I personaly think alot of and has awesome Skills and attitude.


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## napolean

Let's have some common sense about this. If you are light at the tech table, aren't you allowed to add weight? Or are you DQ'd? No, that's dumb. If you're a little over on voltage, you should be allowed to take some out without all this hand-wringing about safety. We're not talking about putting 9.5 volts into them. What happenned was that they were charged a little over, so they would be close later on at tech. Fl Flash, if fire is what concerns you, you better start looking at the REAL culprit...NIMH. The only fire started was by the one that blew up behind me, and hit a fellow racer in the back. There's the danger that should be addressed. Maybe we should start checking the way NIMH is being charged, or overcharged. Let's have a voltage check for NIMH at the tech table. It goes back to rule-making. Make the rule, spell it out and then DO it, but let's not go off the deep end, just because you don't understand the new batteries. It's only unsafe if you do something wrong, but with NIMH....they just blow because they're defective!


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## RPM

napolean said:


> Let's have some common sense about this. If you are light at the tech table, aren't you allowed to add weight? Or are you DQ'd? No, that's dumb. If you're a little over on voltage, you should be allowed to take some out without all this hand-wringing about safety. We're not talking about putting 9.5 volts into them. What happenned was that they were charged a little over, so they would be close later on at tech. Fl Flash, if fire is what concerns you, you better start looking at the REAL culprit...NIMH. The only fire started was by the one that blew up behind me, and hit a fellow racer in the back. There's the danger that should be addressed. Maybe we should start checking the way NIMH is being charged, or overcharged. Let's have a voltage check for NIMH at the tech table. It goes back to rule-making. Make the rule, spell it out and then DO it, but let's not go off the deep end, just because you don't understand the new batteries. It's only unsafe if you do something wrong, but with NIMH....they just blow because they're defective!



100% Agree Jim!


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## katf1sh

cool so jim and ross are going to allow us to charGe our lipo's until we deem they are charged!

if they go up to tech at 9.01 volts we just hold the racers up until our packs are deemed legal to race....AWESOME!

and if i go up to tech with a ilegal motor...the racers can wait until i put the right motor in my car...AWESOME!

if i put 8 cells in my car and tech catCHES it before i go out..the racers can wait until i get 4 cells in there! AWESOME!

the other 9 guys on the stand who brought there cars to tech and were legal will have to suffer because i am trying to stretch all the gray areas. AWESOME!

now i know where the line in the sand is....i can work (around) that! 

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!


YES I WILL WAIT ON THE STAND FOR UNSOLDERED BATTERIES

YES I WILL WAIT FOR A LOOSE OR MISSING PINNION

CRYSTAL CHANGE IS COOL!

overcharging your stupid lipo packs on purpose? NO WAY!!!!!!!!


i didn't make the rules i just want to see them enforced..for safety and to end all this nonsense about cheating and overcharging your cheap azz orion packs!

you don't hear the nimh guys calling each other over chargers! lol and we don't have to put them in our sacks either! na na na na


we have 0 common sense when it comes to 1/10th of a second on the track...i know ross has had this finger pointed at him in the past at a club race? get a volt meter and get t close!


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## Fl Flash

Ever see a under weight car start a pit table on fire? me neither. 

I was sitting within 10 feet of one of the nimh cells that blew Sunday morning, I saw no fire, I even picked up the remains of the battery that was laying on the floor, didnt burn me or the carpet. Nimh batterys Pop and unless your hit by one theres little danger. Lipo batterys overcharged Burn in a chemical fire that is very difficult to put out, add that to pit tables filled with electronics/plastics/chemical cleaners/traction additives and carpet on the floors. Overchargeing Lipo batteries for a minor performance gain or convienance is just a stupid risk some are taking that can affect all of us. 

I,m a graduate from the Forida Fire College and worked for the Lake County fire Dept. for ten years, I have a funny habit, I look around for fire extinguishers and poor fire safety acts. Can you tell me the number and location of extinguishers at last Sundays race venue? the fire load of the chemicals and carpet surrounding us in the building? Have you ever attempted to put out a chemical fire? We as RC racers are asking for trouble and in a building that is rented for our raceing fun we need to be more careful.


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## RPM

katf1sh said:


> cool so jim and ross are going to allow us to charGe our lipo's until we deem they are charged!
> 
> ....
> YES I WILL WAIT ON THE STAND FOR UNSOLDERED BATTERIES
> 
> overcharging your stupid lipo packs on purpose? NO WAY!!!!!!


No one is overcharging lipo batteries on purpose. 

I have seen about two packs of 4 cell Nimh explode on an average at every big race.
I have seen Nimh catch on fire.

I have seen a lipo pack swell.
I have yet seen a lipo fire.

We all run the same 3200 Orion packs in 21.5 brushless Spec class.

8.44 volts is the limit set by Mike.
Its a race rule we all follow.

Whats your point?


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## napolean

Here we go again! Let's not go off the deep end, just keep it perspective. The rule was 8.44, but it was a club type race and no one said that there were going to be a "show up at the table" rule. If there was one, I'll guarantee there wouldn't have been any at 8.5. If you think a lipo at 8.5 is dangerous, than you need to stop reading the forums and go educate yourself. No one was charging their Lipos in a dangerous way, and if you think .06 of a volt is going to damage a lipo, well, you're mistaken.
As to the fire.....maybe those guys around me were just stomping their feet to kill some ants, couldn't have been a smouldering carpet....but then again, I didn't go to Fire College. Personally, I'll use the lipo bag....and sit next my lipo friends, the rest of you need safety glasses and a flack jacket!
Kat, keep it going, we may get a few more pages out of this thread! LOL


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## katf1sh

napolean said:


> The rule was 8.44


 
now that i agree with 100% who broke the rules? who paid the price? i wasn't there to me it is all hear say.....


i think ron and lee would like to see the rule 8.44 at the tech table....if it comes to tech over charged...you watch your race from the tech table.....


thats it...the guys who run nimh cells must tech there cars as well.......

10 more pages of negative lipo coverage is all i'm asking for!

and what else can we chat about on the 4th than lipo fires! ahahahhahaahhahaha


too easy!


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## napolean

Fl Flash, there is one thing you can answer for me, what type of small extinguisher would be practical, and effective, to carry around for lipo, just to make Katfish feel more at ease! Hey, there goes another bottle rocket, I mean 4200! Happy 4th.


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## DOUGHBOY

napolean said:


> Fl Flash, there is one thing you can answer for me, what type of small extinguisher would be practical, and effective, to carry around for lipo, just to make Katfish feel more at ease! Hey, there goes another bottle rocket, I mean 4200! Happy 4th.


this is really funny jim those 4200's can be some really cool fireworks trust me i have had a few explode when i was sitting next to it and it does give off one heck of a bang..... you know what really makes me laugh about this is that all these people b*tching about cost to switch to lipo but all it takes is one cell to go bad in a 4 cell pack and you might as well just flush 50.00 down the toilet. every body is right it will cost a little bit to convert but once you have done it the hobby becomes way cheaper how can you argue that...


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## kevinm

I just finished charging a half-dozen LiPo packs from 3 different brands. All were charged at 1C on correctly set-up LiPo chargers. Two of them were above 8.44V when I checked them with a voltmeter. The highest was an Orion 3200 which was 8.48V. Maybe you should change your rule to 8.5V, since perfectly ordinary batteries charged correctly can exceed 8.44V. Seems like the goal here is to indentify people who are charging incorrectly/unsafely rather than to penalize ones who accidentally got a _slightly_ better battery. (Assuming that an extra .04V under no load will actually make the car faster on the track.)


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## swtour

> (Assuming that an extra .04V under no load will actually make the car faster on the track.)


It won't....

Out of curiosity - WHY type/brand chargers?

Everything I've read says 8.38 to 8.40 is max. charge for lipo - but I have ONE lipo charger that charges LOW Amp - yet charges over 8.45 every time.

It's the Pro-Peak Quattro

The Orion Advantages go to 8.38 - 8.40 MAX ...at least so far.


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## RPM

swtour said:


> It won't....
> 
> Out of curiosity - WHY type/brand chargers?
> 
> Everything I've read says 8.38 to 8.40 is max. charge for lipo - but I have ONE lipo charger that charges LOW Amp - yet charges over 8.45 every time.
> 
> It's the Pro-Peak Quattro
> 
> The Orion Advantages go to 8.38 - 8.40 MAX ...at least so far.


Some people would say your *overcharging*. LOL


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## swtour

RPM - I consider it OVERCHARGING and Will NOT use it on race days...

I bought it as a spare and to use to balance charge the 3200's (It was 20 bucks on sale NEW) Works great to charge each side of the 3200 separately to bring them into balance. (I do this after fully charging on the ORIONS - and it only takes 3-5 minutes to bring the low side up.


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## RPM

swtour said:


> RPM - I consider it OVERCHARGING and Will NOT use it on race days...
> 
> I bought it as a spare and to use to balance charge the 3200's (It was 20 bucks on sale NEW) Works great to charge each side of the 3200 separately to bring them into balance. (I do this after fully charging on the ORIONS - and it only takes 3-5 minutes to bring the low side up.


Its only OVERCHARGING if your charging over 8.44 in NiMh mode on
your charger.

We have a 8.44 rule here at our track and run 21.5/3200 orion lipos.
There is random voltage, motor checks at our track.

We don't have any problems with OVERCHARGING.

Racing is about having fun and the competition sometime
clouds peoples judgment.


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## swtour

Our series rule is 8.40 volts w/ a .05 margin of error. I'm sure some guys read that as 8.45, and that there should be another .05 error factor on top of that...LOL 

For our local club racing, I don't check and don't really care. It's parking lot racing, and there's nothing to BURN nearby...plus our local guys are all out to have FUN.

Locally we mix 19t w/ 10.5 4 cell and 17.5 Lipo, we'll run just about ANYTHING guys show up with - and the more of THAT the bigger the class...if there is only one or two - we try to find someplace to put them where ALL can have FUN.


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## hankster

Joe, I applaude you! You are bringing the fun back into oval racing and giving everyone a place to run instead of forcing racing to spend money to conform to your standards. This is one reason I decided to help support your series. Great job!


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## katf1sh

and joe is enforcing a good rule..8.40 means 8.40 no excusues! kudos to joe


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## kevinm

swtour said:


> Out of curiosity - WHY type/brand chargers?
> ...


An Electrifly PolyCharge 4 was used for my 18th scale batteries which are either Thunder Power 1320mAh or Apogee 1500mAh 2-cells. This charger was also used for the Orion 3200. The only charge mode this unit has is LiPo (max. 3 amps) and automatically detects the number of cells.

The other batteries were Apogee 3800mAh 2-cells. One was charged on a Duratrax Ice, the other on a Triton Jr.


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## gezer2u

Kevin

Can you tell us the chargers that charged over 8.44?  

Thanks.


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## swtour

Don,

I don't know what Kevin found, but I'm seeing chargers that have the "Single" Push Button - Auto Select Cells 1-3 type chargers that charge a lower amp range pumping the finished voltage upto nearly 8.5 pretty consistantly. The higher end, or more adjustable chargers seem to be closer to 8.38 - 8.40, unless on NiMh mode.

What are others seeing?


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## irvan36mm

RPM said:


> Its only OVERCHARGING if your charging over 8.44 in NiMh mode on
> your charger.


VERY TRUE!!!!!!!!!!!
We had one guy @ our track accidentally charge his LiPo on NiMh mode (he didn't realise the profile had changed when he hit the "Start" button on his ICE charger). His battery ended up at 9.4 volts when he caught it in time. He didn't know what to do,so I told him to run it in the next race-just to see what happened. Damn,he was fast!!!!!!!!! LOL


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## lloydd2

I observed a DuraTrax Onyx 230 AC/DC charge an Orion 3200 pack at both 6 amps and at 3.2 amps.....in both cases when checked with a voltmeter the voltage read 8.5 volts. As a comparsion....we charged a pack w/ an Ice charger at a 6 amp charge rate and the pack did not go over 8.402 as measured w/ the voltmeter. This was just a single charger sample, but it should be interesting if all of the Onyx 230s will charge over the 8.4 - 8.44 voltage limits and how that will effect the rules.


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## tw78911sc

Oval Nats, 8.44 was it, if you were over @ tech, you didn't race. You couldn't turn your gear on to burn any volts off. You had a chance to get your voltage meter synched up with the track, but you had to know what you brought to the track. Overcharging is going on. My LRP Pulsar3 allows calibration to allow hitting 8.4, my checkpoint is 8.4 perfect everytime. If tracks allow 8.44 instead of 8.4, people will over charge to get the extra .04V.


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## badassrevo

I run 4s in my 1/8th scale. I always charge at 1c and balance every charge. The batteries come off of my Hyperion charger at 16.8 every charge. Buy good equipment and you dont have to worry about overcharging. My 2s packs come off at 8.4 every time.


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