# Where does the "Hero" term come from?



## kdaracal (Jan 24, 2009)

I've been wondering, but I'm too shy to ask. Where does the "hero" term come from? Who decides which miniature gets that distinction? Is there a panel of men in some smokey, dimly lit board room somewhere in DC that decides these things? Maybe I want the _smaller _Chariot mini to be the hero. Can I vote on *THAT*? Maybe the smaller J2 that appears in the episodes where the J2 gets shrunk and Will and Smith carry it around is my choice of hero!

And it doesn't stop there. Oh, no. Now we are getting seperate parts with the hero designation! (landing gear) Well, I'm done being shy! I want to be in that group of hero deciders!!!

*Who's with me!??? *:wave::tongue:

OK. Seriously. Why the term "hero"?


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## Kitzillastein58 (Jan 27, 2009)

Great question, I was curious about this too.


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## drewid142 (Apr 23, 2004)

Back in 1993 I had a game company and we were working on a new game (Iron Helix). I hired an awesome animator out of ILM to join the team, and he introduced us to the term "Hero" which was to designate that this file was the final keeper. We all picked up on this right away, but we would continue to revise... so we had stacks and stacks of files on Syquest drives for back up that had some crazy stuff after the dot... like .heroherohero and .hero2herofinalhero and it just got out of control. We all got some great laughs out of it!


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## kdaracal (Jan 24, 2009)

I think calling the 4' J2 a miniature is a little like saying "jumbo shrimp". What the heck? The 4 footer is bigger than a mini---it's more like a "maxi-mini" Wait. That came out wrong. You know what I mean! Don't get me started on the Enterprise......


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

"Hero" means that it is the miniature that saw the most screen time and had the most detail. Not a back-up or a model used less often. "The Pod Dropper" modified Jupiter II to me would not be considered the "hero" since it was a specific design modification and did not do the majority of the FX work. Just my take on the meaning.


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## spocks beard (Mar 21, 2007)

*The Restored Hero J2 pix*

Here are a few pix of what i think are the main J2 hero 4 footer.
This was supposed to be after the restoration, But i think it still needed more work. Also note that the front computer boxes are pale green? What's up with that? Although i know the actual set consoles were dark silver gray.


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## spocks beard (Mar 21, 2007)

spocks beard said:


> Here are a few pix of what i think are the main J2 hero 4 footer.
> This was supposed to be after the restoration, But i think it still needed more work. Also note that the front computer boxes are pale green? What's up with that? Although i know the actual set consoles were dark silver gray.


Note the hero still has one landing leg attached, The other two were not reinstalled yet.


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

The term Hero was because the object could be photographed up close without giving it away that it wasn't a model. It was the main model and did the HEAVY WORK required. The 5 foot Millinium Falcon would be a Hero model.


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## Dave P (Jan 5, 2005)

This refers to models or props that are finished to higher degree of craftsmanship and detail because they will be seen up close on screen. These models usually get the most screen time, are use for key scenes, and are larger to accommodate more detail and hold depth of field when the camera gets close. Props with this designation are the ones used by the lead actors. Models/props used for background work do not require this level of work because the details won't be seen. Also applies to makeup/masks.

Same thing applies in the digital world when detailing foreground vs. background objects.


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## Ron Gross (Jan 2, 2009)

Until fairly recently, I always referred to the primary J2 model as the "articulated miniature," out of respect for Mike Clark's designation in his 1985 "LIS 20th Anniversary Tribute" video. However, I must confess that the term "hero" provided an opportunity for a great title for my forthcoming article in SFFM magazine (April). It will deal with the "hero landing gear" alternative, and I will give away the title a little early:

"Giving the Moebius Jupiter 2 Model the Full 'Hero' Treatment"

Ron G.


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## JeffG (May 10, 2004)

The 'hero' has always meant the best looking, usually largest or camera closeup ready prop or thing. The film making industry always seems to have their own lingo for stuff. Like, "Put a 'cookie' in front of a light.

I find it pretty ironic that we have so many kits now that have far superior detail than what was actually used for filming miniatures in a lot of cases. The 'hero' Jupiter 2 could only wish it had Moebius' interior! Of course, that was then. With HD resolutions today, it would have to.


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

Whereas "Pyro's" are built exclusively to be blown up. The rest are just "Dummies". Pretty sure it was Star Wars that started the trend, if not sometime soon after.

Last night I overheard a producer refer to a particular shot as a 'hero', as opposed to all the other crappy takes of that shot. So the term is creeping beyond it's modeling origins. Not fond of it myself. I still prefer the term 'master' in these cases.


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## falcondesigns (Oct 30, 2002)

Hollywood has been building "pyro" models long before George made Star Wars,the Lyderker Brothers were using pyro models in the Republic serials of the 30's and 40's.


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## CaptCBoard (Aug 3, 2002)

To get really specific...

"Hero" does refer to that item to be seen on-camera that has to withstand the highest level of scrutiny or degree of function or handling. For things, like miniatures, where no one version can portray the entire range of desired functions, more than one "hero" will be used.

The need for terms like this stems from the fact that there are other versions of the same thing that are used because the hero version might be damaged. "Background" miniatures, where none of them are seen in close-up. "Stunt" versions of props, used in fight scenes so that the fully-functioning version won't be damaged. "Pyro" versions, the most obvious because you don't want to have only one chance to blow something up. Then there is the not-so-obvious category-- "Producer's Keeper". That's where someone in the production comes in and tells the model/prop shop supervisor to make one for the Producer, so he can have a souvenier. That one's not so common, but I've made my share of them.

One thing to remember about "hero"-- it is the one that serves the camera best. In the case of something used in a night shot, the level of detail may not be the same as if it was going to be needed for a day shot. So, even a "hero" model can have crappy detailing!

Scott


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## scotpens (Sep 6, 2003)

Model Man said:


> Last night I overheard a producer refer to a particular shot as a 'hero', as opposed to all the other crappy takes of that shot. So the term is creeping beyond it's modeling origins. Not fond of it myself. I still prefer the term 'master' in these cases.


A "master shot" is a wide shot that covers all the action of a particular scene, with all the players in view. Other shots of the same action -- two-shots, closeups, reaction shots -- are intercut with the master in the editing process. So theoretically, a master shot by a bad director and/or DP could be as crappy as any other shot.


JeffG said:


> The film making industry always seems to have their own lingo for stuff. Like, "Put a 'cookie' in front of a light.


And colorful bits of jargon like "MOS" (shooting without sound, supposedly from German-born directors who said "*M*it*O*ut *S*ound"). And, of course, the "honeywagon."


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

scotpens said:


> A "master shot" is a wide shot...


True enough. I was referring to a take used to make a master in this case. A master take for the master reel which would likely have master shots within. :hat:


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## kdaracal (Jan 24, 2009)

Thanks, Gentlemen! I kinda posted this as a silly question but the info on the subject is coming from the pros that know! This is where the newbies like me can truly learn a thing or two. I appreciate the serious answers and the knowledge. I just love being a part of Hobbytalk. I've learned more in the last 6 months than I ever could have on my own. I gotta say, the Moebuis kit is way more realistic than the real "hero". First the Chariot on my workbench, then on to the J2..........:wave:


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## mmmmp (Jan 15, 2010)

Hi guys,

I've worked in the film industry for 25 years doing color correction on dailies. Although I cannot eleucidate on the 'hero' question, I have seen many terms that have indeed been around for decades.

MOS - 'Mit out Sound' is still standard for a take that is silent. (2nd unit, inserts, etc.)

Master: is the widest shot encompassing all the action - if possibe. Then the O/S/Ms/Cu etc. are shot when the cameras and lights are repositioned.

Printed Take: is the shot the director thinks is best...there can be more than one. On big features, they usually print everything. (They don't make projection prints anymore...it's all transferred and logged into the Avidnon-linear edit system. It's cheaper, faster and less camera negative wear.) Also, the editor has what we call 'B-Neg' - outtakes that can be used for addtional coverage.

Since I stated in the film biz, things have changed so radically, it makes my head spin. In fact, other than the first color corrected film to tape / Editorial transfer, the original OCN - Original Camera Negative - the neg isn't even touched until the final Digital Intermediate finish. This is when the film is locked, and the 2K - 4K files are output to create the finished film. No dirt, sparkle, damage, etc. 

Any more questions...just ask.
Mark


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## ClubTepes (Jul 31, 2002)

We use 'kill the nun' a lot.
A buck to anyone who knows that one. (except Jeff who probably knows)

'Hero' is the best, the main, the primary.


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## mmmmp (Jan 15, 2010)

>We use 'kill the nun' a lot.
>A buck to anyone who knows that one. (except Jeff who probably knows)<

Hmmm...never heard *that* one. 

Mark


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

"The main one."


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## mmmmp (Jan 15, 2010)

>"The main one."


Thanks! Funny how those terms won't go away. 

"Wrap" and/or "Break-off" - The end of a shoot day, and B.O. is a partial shipment to the lab to start processing.

"FIPS" - frames per second.

"2nd Stix" - when the 1st slate hasn't been clapped audibly or not visible to the camera.

My absolute favorite is still: "Blooped" (This is real folks!)

On a optical soundtrk - if there was a bump over a splice, they would use 'blooping tape' or 'blooping dots' to mask the imperfection. (O-sound was and still is used for theatre release prints....while they last.

Thank God they didn't say "BLAP". 

Best, 
Mark - Colorist, Jupiter 2 fan, and all around fool.


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## B-9 (Jun 8, 2009)

How many know what a "martini shot" is?


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

B-9 said:


> How many know what a "martini shot" is?


Same as a Jell-O shot?


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## Mr. Wabac (Nov 9, 2002)

The most important phrase you should know on a set

"Can you direct me to craft services ?"

The phrase soon to pass into history

"check the gate"

The phrase normally heard after "check the gate" (and won't pass into history)

"it's a wrap"


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## scotpens (Sep 6, 2003)

Another phrase that won't become obsolete:

"We're losing the light!"

What about Foley artists? Is their job obsolete, now that just about every sound can be sampled and re-created digitally?


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## B-9 (Jun 8, 2009)

I've heard "Check the gate" even with digital cameras. I think it now simply means to check the recording itself, as opposed to examining for dirt in the aperture. The audio guy still yells "speed" as well, even with a digital recorder. It's just to let the director know the audio is recording. There are no more tape reels to "get up to speed" like the old days.

A martini shot is the last shot of the day.

That's just some more fun film facts you can amaze your friends with!


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## scotpens (Sep 6, 2003)

Shouldn't this thread be moved to the Movies board?



B-9 said:


> I've heard "Check the gate" even with digital cameras. I think it now simply means to check the recording itself, as opposed to examining for dirt in the aperture. The audio guy still yells "speed" as well, even with a digital recorder. It's just to let the director know the audio is recording. There are no more tape reels to "get up to speed" like the old days.


Just like the way we still say "dial" and "hang up" the phone. And when typing on a computer, we still call the end of a line a "carriage return." And spacing between lines of text is still called "leading" and "slugs" by typographers . . ._ ad nauseam_.


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

scotpens said:


> Shouldn't this thread be moved to the Movies board?
> 
> Just like the way we still say "dial" and "hang up" the phone. And when typing on a computer, we still call the end of a line a "carriage return." And spacing between lines of text is still called "leading" and "slugs" by typographers . . ._ ad nauseam_.


And who doesn't still 'tape some video' on their digital camcorder?

Heck, a film sequences are still called 'plates'. And that goes back to when they developed silent film on glass 'plates'.


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## mmmmp (Jan 15, 2010)

How many know what a "martini shot" is?

Last shot of the day...before cocktails start.

Re: Foley artists...yup - still an ongoing job.

Mark


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## Seaview (Feb 18, 2004)

"To a New Yorker like you, a hero is some type of weird sandwich, not some nut who takes on three Tigers." - Oddball, _Kelly's Heroes_


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## terryr (Feb 11, 2001)

There's 'hero' in other things too, just not models. The Hero car is the one the Star drives up in, as opposed to stunt cars or second unit. I mean 'The Talent'.


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## scotpens (Sep 6, 2003)

Seaview said:


> "To a New Yorker like you, a hero is some type of weird sandwich, not some nut who takes on three Tigers." - Oddball, _Kelly's Heroes_


In New York, a "project" is where the poor folks live. In L.A., a "project" is your screenplay that's stuck in development hell!


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## Fernando Mureb (Nov 12, 2006)

The first time I read the term "hero" it was applied to the Jupiter 2 used in the landing scene from "The Derelict" and also to the Robot (that one with Bob May in).

Then I read the term also related to the 17 'Seaview. So, I always understood the term "Hero" as applied to the prop used for the first time, with the most complete and complex FX.

But also, I always felt the in term a meaning something sentimental, as designating a "late" object, beloved by a generation of boys, which no longer exists, or if it exist, at least there is no longer the same brightness and "vigor" of the past.


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## Parts Pit Mike (Jan 3, 2001)

Okay... with almost 25 years in the Film Biz I see you're getting some true definitions, try these terms...

A "mother-daughter shot".

The "window shot"

The "Abbey Singer window"


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## mmmmp (Jan 15, 2010)

Parts Pit Mike said:


> Okay... with almost 25 years in the Film Biz I see you're getting some true definitions, try these terms...
> 
> A "mother-daughter shot".
> 
> ...


I guess those 2 extra years have enlightened you more than me (Been in the 'biz' 23 years)

I've never heard any of those expressions - but I sure could "wow' them at work on Monday....What *do* they mean? Man, I've leanred a lot about model making here, but related topics are always of interest to me. (BTW - I work in Post, I guess some of really cool slang doesn't make it to me)

Please, do tell, 
Mark


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## Seaview (Feb 18, 2004)

...the Martini...


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## scotpens (Sep 6, 2003)

I assume a "mother-daughter shot" has nothing to do with porn.

Sorry, I can't help having a dirty mind. :devil:


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## CaptCBoard (Aug 3, 2002)

Not a well-known fact... Most video playback guys have a drawer on their cart just packed full of candy and other snacks. For some reason, 'Atomic Fireballs' seem to be particularly popular!

The second-sticks or 'End Slate' is used under several conditions. Usually it has to do with something in front of camera that won't like the noise, like a baby or an animal. It is also used when there is a chance of reverberation or echo, so the racket coming at the end of a scene won't matter. There are systems that eliminate the sticks altogether. A wireless link is used to sync a one-frame light flash on the slate and a sound blip on the sound track when a button is pushed. This is linked to the time-code generator so a computer can automatically sync them up.

Scott


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## kdaracal (Jan 24, 2009)

I often wonder if I missed my calling in life. I love all these insider terms. 

As a high schooler, I saw Alien. Being a long-time sci-fi fan, I ran out to Walden Books and picked up a rather expensive "The Art of Alien" full color pictorial. I would sit and fantasize about being on their art team as I leafed through the pages. To work on a movie like that. Miniatures, set design, everything. 

So one day, some 30 years later, here I am, able to talk with these kinds of professional art people. 

So I reiterate that Hobbytalk has some wonderful, experienced talent here. What an honor to be able to communicate with these folks! Thanks, Guys!


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## ClubTepes (Jul 31, 2002)

Parts Pit Mike said:


> Okay... with almost 25 years in the Film Biz I see you're getting some true definitions, try these terms...
> 
> A "mother-daughter shot".
> 
> ...


The 'Mother-Daughter' is a shot at one focal length, and another from the same camera position but with a 'tighter' lens.

Never heard 'Window Shot' used in 21 years and 30 features.

'Abbey Singer' or 'The Abbey' is the shot prior to the 'Martini' shot.

Abbey Singer is a real person and still alive as far as I know.


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## razorwyre1 (Jan 28, 2004)

ClubTepes said:


> 'Abbey Singer' or 'The Abbey' is the shot prior to the 'Martini' shot.
> 
> Abbey Singer is a real person and still alive as far as I know.


how did their name get applied to that particular shot? that would be really interesting to know.



scotpens said:


> What about Foley artists? Is their job obsolete, now that just about every sound can be sampled and re-created digitally?


i doubt it. its as much an art as a technical procedure, and will always be needed. some minor sounds might become automatic, but complex or creative stuff will need a "sound creation artist" of some sort.


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## ClubTepes (Jul 31, 2002)

razorwyre1 said:


> how did their name get applied to that particular shot? that would be really interesting to know.
> 
> 
> i doubt it. its as much an art as a technical procedure, and will always be needed. some minor sounds might become automatic, but complex or creative stuff will need a "sound creation artist" of some sort.


My understanding has always been that he was an AD and misquoted the martini by one shot.

Hense, the shot before the martini is 'The Abbey'.

Look here at imdb.com and click on 'trivia'
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0801879/


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## Parts Pit Mike (Jan 3, 2001)

Can't fool you guys for long... 

Yes indeed the "mother daughter" shot can be described as "the same thing, only tighter"

The "window shot" is the last shot of the day, another term for "martini"

... and the "Abbey" a.k.a the "Abbey Singer Window" is the second last shot of the day.

Also up here in Canada, we have something referred to as the "Bertuzzi" named after a hockey player famous for an incident when he clubbed another player from behind.... 

Thus a "Bertuzzi" is the shot you never saw coming.


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## Paulbo (Sep 16, 2004)

Parts Pit Mike said:


> Also up here in Canada, we have something referred to as the "Bertuzzi" named after a hockey player famous for an incident when he clubbed another player from behind....
> 
> Thus a "Bertuzzi" is the shot you never saw coming.


Ah, I was thinking it was the inadvertent shot of the pizza on the food service table - but that would be spelled BertuCCi ... i.e. http://www.bertuccis.com/ (Yum!)


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## Seaview (Feb 18, 2004)

Don't forget that there were TWO "hero" Seaviews; the 17 footer for surface shots and the 8 footer for submerged shots. A very wise move on the part of Team Moebius to give us a choice in our builds!


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## ClubTepes (Jul 31, 2002)

Parts Pit Mike said:


> Can't fool you guys for long...
> 
> Yes indeed the "mother daughter" shot can be described as "the same thing, only tighter"
> 
> ...


Sounds like 'Window' and 'Abby Window' are Canadian quotes then, cause I never heard them here in the states.

I've never heard 'Bertuzzi' before, but I like it.

I'll help spread it around here.


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