# Moebius Seaview paint question



## tardis1916 (Mar 24, 2004)

So I've just received the 8 window movie version Seaview from Moebius and noticed the main hull color is listed as neutral gray. I also have the 4 window Seaview which needs some repair work which will require the main hull to be repainted. The color of that model that I used seems to be a light blue gray. I was wondering if anyone had the instructions for the 4 Window and could let me know that they recommended for the main (upper) hull color. You can see my previous builds here; http://tardis1916.com/models/thumbnails.php?album=49&page=3

http://tardis1916.com/models/thumbnails.php?album=50

I'm fairly certain that I did a custom color (at Moms insistence) for it but it was so long ago, I can't remember what I used so I may just re-paint it the neutral gray if that is what is listed for the the 4-window instructions.

Thanks in advance


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## tardis1916 (Mar 24, 2004)

SO I just repainted her with the Tamiya gray primer, looks pretty good IMO.


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## Hunk A Junk (Jan 28, 2013)

I painted my 4-window Seaview a shade slightly darker than primer gray. It's not "accurate" but every shot of the Seaview in the movie and the TV show is a different hue and shade. Some shots she's bluish, some she's grayish, some she's whiteish. On the surface, underwater -- she never looks the same twice. So I went with "gray" and called it a day.


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## enterprise_fanatic (Aug 4, 2014)

The color of the eight window seaview (gray) is from the movie would be different from the four window seaview (blue/gray) seen on the TV program. Now they did use the eight window model in the beginning of the TV season, when they switched to the four window model I don't remember. One would think that is when they changed the exterior color. Depending on your lighting go with the color scheme that looks good to your eyes.


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## nautilusnut (Jul 9, 2008)

The movie version is basically gray with an almost white bottom. When the TV series was produced, the model was shaded with several colors to enhance the appearance on the low-resolution sets of the day. (most of which were B&W) The was an extensive thread on duplicating this paint scheme by Paul Newitt on this site awhile back.


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## irishtrek (Sep 17, 2005)

The first season the Seaview had 8 windows and the show was filmed in black and white. Beginning with season 2 the Seaview had 4 windows and the show was filmed in color.


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## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

irishtrek said:


> The first season the Seaview had 8 windows and the show was filmed in black and white. Beginning with season 2 the Seaview had 4 windows and the show was filmed in color.


Yes that's true, but you have to remember that back in the mid '60s Color TV ownership wasn't 100%. TVs were expensive beasts (and color sets even more so!) and if you had a decent B&W set that was generally good enough, so even being filmed in color, shows had to plan for being seen on B&W TV sets.

Hence the 'stage shading' of the Seaview.


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

There are several great threads in the Moebius Models section that deal with painting and detailing the TV and movie Seaview model kits.

Here are a few that I found just by typing in "*************" in the search window there:

Seaview movie and TV colors:

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=222120&highlight=paul+lubliner

Accurately detailing the 1/350 scale TV kit:

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=320432&highlight=paul+lubliner


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## Hunk A Junk (Jan 28, 2013)

My approach on almost every sci-fi subject (at least ones where there were physical models) is to find a balance between the real model and the on-screen appearance. I could drive myself crazy trying to exactly replicate the 16' Seaview when the truth is that the 16' was altered at various times depending on the needs of filmmakers or that it has big differences with the 8' version. So I almost always try to make my models match the one my inner kid would find "real" as if the subject existed in the real world. So this is what my Seaview looks like. It's less bluish than the 8' season 2 model, but it has some of the shading. I painted a few very light panel lines to break up the smoothness of the hull. I wanted it to look like a real sub in the real world but still look like the vehicle on the screen.


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## tardis1916 (Mar 24, 2004)

Great responses, thanks all. As usual, I make my question difficult to understand. So here's the plain version; in the 4 window Seaview instructions, what is the color that they list?


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## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

tardis1916 said:


> Great responses, thanks all. As usual, I make my question difficult to understand. So here's the plain version; in the 4 window Seaview instructions, what is the color that they list?


I think what the underlying answer is, inferring from the implied context of your question is "The 8 window Seaview shouldn't be the same color as the 4 window Seaview" so maybe you shouldn't think about making a single batch of gray to paint both your models. 

Someone will likely dig out their instruction sheet and give you the answer. I mean, I can't think of any model builder who throws away their instruction sheets, I know I don't.


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## Hunk A Junk (Jan 28, 2013)

tardis1916 said:


> Great responses, thanks all. As usual, I make my question difficult to understand. So here's the plain version; in the 4 window Seaview instructions, what is the color that they list?


I no longer have the instruction sheet, so I can't tell you. But I'd suggest it doesn't matter unless you're specifically trying to accurately represent one particular model (of the several used) in one particular scene under exactly similar lighting situations. What we see on screen is the result of art directors and effects technicians under tight schedules and budgets using whatever they need to do get the particular shot to get the movie made and not get fired. The model is then lit with lamps that affect the color and shot on film stock that alters the color again and then timed during post-production to alter the color yet again. So you could use the exact color the instructions say, but it's really just a best (and hopefully educated) guess at what the color should be. My advice is to not worry about it. There are several hues of Tamiya paints that look good or just get some white, black and blue and mix your own.


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## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

Hunk A Junk said:


> I no longer have the instruction sheet, so I can't tell you. But I'd suggest it doesn't matter unless you're specifically trying to accurately represent one particular model (of the several used) in one particular scene under exactly similar lighting situations. What we see on screen is the result of art directors and effects technicians under tight schedules and budgets using whatever they need to do get the particular shot to get the movie made and not get fired. The model is then lit with lamps that affect the color and shot on film stock that alters the color again and then timed during post-production to alter the color yet again. So you could use the exact color the instructions say, but it's really just a best (and hopefully educated) guess at what the color should be. My advice is to not worry about it. There are several hues of Tamiya paints that look good or just get some white, black and blue and mix your own.


That's the common sense and true answer, but you know that offends the sensibilities of some of our brethren here. 

Or to mangle a punchline from something "If it's not exactly like the original filming miniature, IT'S CRAP!"


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## Hunk A Junk (Jan 28, 2013)

Steve H said:


> That's the common sense and true answer, but you know that offends the sensibilities of some of our brethren here.


I'm a repeat offender. I repeat, I will offend again. :thumbsup:

Seriously, not trying to offend. People should pursue their passions and I'm not trying to judge. I'm particular about certain things too (of course, to my wife my being "particular" is just O.C.D.). I did spend time researching Seaview colors (and Enterprise colors, and Millennium Falcon colors...) and usually end up back at, "This looks right to me."


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## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

Hunk A Junk said:


> I'm a repeat offender. I repeat, I will offend again. :thumbsup:
> 
> Seriously, not trying to offend. People should pursue their passions and I'm not trying to judge. I'm particular about certain things too (of course, to my wife my being "particular" is just O.C.D.). I did spend time researching Seaview colors (and Enterprise colors, and Millennium Falcon colors...) and usually end up back at, "This looks right to me."


I dig. 

Here's the thing that bothers me. People who do all that research, are 100% sure they know EXACTLY the colors of, say, the 18 foot (or thereabouts) Seaview, but don't do a THING about 're-scaling' the colors to compensate for the smaller scale of a plastic model. Because as esoteric and painfully obscure as that kind of science is, it really should be done if fidelity to the original is sought. So it seems to me. 

It's like the mania of throwing the 'aztec' style paint scheme on Enterprise models. By all logic that should be so faint at to be almost unnoticeable. I've seen paint apps that make it look more like poorly applied digital camouflage. Of course, now that 'color flopping' or shimmer paints are more available, maybe we'll see some amazing builds in the coming years.


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

When David Merriman got the 18' for restoration, the top color was a primer grey and the bottom was a grey that was so light, it was almost white. Some "experts" dispute that, but but he had the miniature and that's what he says. On Cultman, Gary Kerr had a couple photos of matching paint chips from Mr Merriman to Federal Standard paints. The closest match for the top seemed to be to FS 36375 or 36320 or 36300. The bottom seemed closest to 35630, altho' David Merriman said primer white with a touch of grey would work. 

There are no good color photos of the movie Seaview miniature that have any consistency. The TV Guide photos are typical mass market printing of the day and show deeply shadowed very dark grey top surfaces. Keep in mind that when the miniature was wet, it looked a lot darker than when it was out of the water. The first season miniatures no longer exist and as we're learning from Gary Kerr regarding the Enterprise restoration, time and layering of paints effect each layer of paint color considerably so aged paint chips from surviving pieces may not be all that accurate either. . 

The 8 foot Seaviews were likely painted the same at first but over time and and as damage occurred they were likely repainted on an ad hoc basis. They went from a two tone grey over "white" to some detailing like decks and free floods highlighted to at least the poor hero miniature looking like the 60s had thrown up its entire color palette all over it. 

Lots of threads over in the Moebius model building forum on "accurate" Seaview colors. I believe in being a rivet counter because it's fun, because it satisfies some deep psychological problem, and because once you know what the thing really looked and worked like, you can modify it to what you want to modify it to, while remaining true to the spirit of the original. Having rivet counted this to death, I can honestly vote that there is no "accurate" set of colors for any Seaviews that appeared in the series. 

Also, what the miniatures looked like on screen or in photographs were very likely not what they looked like in person. Studio lighting, film color balance, television sets, computer monitors, printing, dvd corections - all alter the colors. 

So my advice is to buy or rent the dvds of Voyage if you don't already have them, choose the look of the Seaviews that you like best, and paint that. Or them. Less but still recommended, search for "Seaview Color" in the forums here. Other than the two colors David Merriman took off of the 18", there is no "accurate" and no single look that will please everyone. Your model. Your choice. Make yourself happy.


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## tardis1916 (Mar 24, 2004)

starseeker said:


> So my advice is to buy or rent the dvds of Voyage if you don't already have them, choose the look of the Seaviews that you like best, and paint that. Or them. Less but still recommended, search for "Seaview Color" in the forums here. Other than the two colors David Merriman took off of the 18", there is no "accurate" and no single look that will please everyone. Your model. Your choice. Make yourself happy.


Don't need to, I have them all thanks to the good Captain himself; David Hedison. I just happen to run his website; http://www.david-hedison.com

Somewhere I have a photo of him holding the large Seaview in the tank.

I was just curious as to what the instructions said for the 4 window version as I no longer have them. But I'm really liking the gray I put on her the other day. Here's the latest on the repair work; https://www.dropbox.com/s/iwtugl9qourwkrp/2016-04-13 09.48.11.jpg?dl=0

Also working on the Scorpion in the background and the 8 window is in a box ready to be assembled. I guess I'm in a bit of a submarine mood this month.


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## Hunk A Junk (Jan 28, 2013)

starseeker said:


> I believe in being a rivet counter because it's fun, *because it satisfies some deep psychological problem*, and because once you know what the thing really looked and worked like, you can modify it to what you want to modify it to, while remaining true to the spirit of the original. Having rivet counted this to death, I can honestly vote that there is no "accurate" set of colors for any Seaviews that appeared in the series.


I snorted up some coffee reading "satisfying deep psychological problems." Definitely true in my case! Honestly, instead of "Hobby Talk", this site should be called "Deep Psychological Problems. And sometimes Styrene." :tongue:


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## nautilusnut (Jul 9, 2008)

One thing most modelers miss is the darker shade the model had applied to the sides of the upper hull area. There are also dark bands on the top of the diving planes next to the conning tower. They are about a 3rd of the width of the plane.


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## Hunk A Junk (Jan 28, 2013)

nautilusnut said:


> One thing most modelers miss is the darker shade the model had applied to the sides of the upper hull area. There are also dark bands on the top of the diving planes next to the conning tower. They are about a 3rd of the width of the plane.


Actually, these details aren't on all the different versions. There were pretty big structural, detail and paint differences on all the studio models, which is why modeling the Seaview is such a challenge. But you're right. For the smaller 8' model they were definitely there.


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