# Points system maybe?



## uspancarchamps (Mar 16, 2004)

I was on another message board and there has been a longstanding discussion about the possibility of there being a regional and/or national points series under the purview of ROAR or something. While I was running around taking care of matters relating to my 5th semester of graduate school, I was able to put together some ideas based on discussion there and this is what I came up with:

Classes:
Touring Car
17.5
13.5
Modified
Vintage Trans-Am (25.5)
Pan Car
12th Scale
17.5
13.5
Modified
10th Scale
World GT
Formula 1
Points: (Based on 50%+1 entrants in each class)
A Main:
1st Place-25 points
2nd Place- 20 points
3rd Place- 15 points
4th Place- 10 points
5th Place- 5 points
6th Place- 4 points
7th Place- 3 points
8th Place- 2 points
9th Place- 1 point
10th Place- 1 point
B Main and Lower:
1st Place- 10 points
2nd Place- 9 points
3rd Place- 8 points
4th Place- 7 points
5th Place- 6 points
6th Place- 5 points
7th Place- 4 points
8th Place- 3 points
9th Place- 2 points
10th Place- 1 point

(note: if the main does not have 50%+1 minimum no points are awarded)
Bonus Points:
Overall TQ: 1 point
Fastest Lap: 1 point

I went with the classes I did for the skeleton because they are the ones most commonly run in some iteration or another over the years (with the exception of VTA, F1 and World GT as those are fairly new)


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## Lessen (Jan 13, 2009)

Here's the deal as I see it. 

There really is no need for a big sanctioned regional points series as most area of the country already have these types of things goin on. Heck, there are two in this area. I don't see any demand for another regional points series. I would, however, like to see a bigtime national points series marketed to all levels of talent but the grandeur that would make it spectacular will not likely ever happen until somebody decides to somehow turn it into a business venture. If it doesn't make money and carry a boatload of prestige it won't be spectacular. If it's not hands down mind-blowing amazing it won't be successful at that level. Just my opinion.


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## uspancarchamps (Mar 16, 2004)

About the only way youd have something that could be classified as "mind blowing amazing" would be if the series had a like $10M points fund or something (that's a million per class if you do the rather elementary math). I was just throwing the possibility out there


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## Lessen (Jan 13, 2009)

I don't know if that might be over the top but I agree that a real purse would create the draw and add a little to the prestige. But all in all every aspect of r/c racing needs to be taken up a notch to create a show worthy of a lot of travel (for the serious) and commitment (for all levels).


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## Chaz955i (May 19, 2009)

Lessen said:


> I don't know if that might be over the top but I agree that a real purse would create the draw and add a little to the prestige. But all in all every aspect of r/c racing needs to be taken up a notch to create a show worthy of a lot of travel (for the serious) and commitment (for all levels).


You are right. I keep seeing these threads pop up and quite honestly a sea cucumber could come up with a list of classes in less than a minute. The trick will be having someone or some group actually do real work which involves reaching out to tracks regionally or nationwide and setting up and maintaining the points to see how it works. A lot of people claim they have a workable solution but don't seem to have the conviction to burn their time putting it into action. :thumbsup:


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## uspancarchamps (Mar 16, 2004)

Chaz955i said:


> You are right. I keep seeing these threads pop up and quite honestly a sea cucumber could come up with a list of classes in less than a minute. The trick will be having someone or some group actually do real work which involves reaching out to tracks regionally or nationwide and setting up and maintaining the points to see how it works. A lot of people claim they have a workable solution but don't seem to have the conviction to burn their time putting it into action. :thumbsup:




If a sea cucumber knew how to use a computer Im sure they could... :lol:

I do see the main crux of your point though. Ive been working on a fairly basic spreadsheet which could be used to maintain points. the challenge comes in finding two or three tracks who would be up for testing it out


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## Chaz955i (May 19, 2009)

uspancarchamps said:


> If a sea cucumber knew how to use a computer Im sure they could... :lol:
> 
> I do see the main crux of your point though. Ive been working on a fairly basic spreadsheet which could be used to maintain points. the challenge comes in finding two or three tracks who would be up for testing it out


It is a tough nut to crack. Find a way to automate the process where tracks would have to do no extra work and I think you would have no problem getting support.


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## CarbonJoe (Jun 29, 2006)

Unless it is automatically submitted after the mains are over, it most likely isn't happening. Between the amount of time spent keeping the track running, cleaning up afterwards, etc., there aren't enough hours in the day already. Lets face it, there is no immediate payback for a struggling track owner to add to their workload.

Most racers won't stick around after the racing is over to help out even a little.


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## uspancarchamps (Mar 16, 2004)

Id have to ask how they do things with the Grand Slam series out in the Midwest, maybe that could yield some insight...also maybe RCSP could be tweaked to allow for that too...just a thought


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## CarbonJoe (Jun 29, 2006)

You're also assuming that every track has an Internet connection. The Gate doesn't.


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## msircracing (Sep 5, 2008)

Joe,

I agree with you.... Also does the RC world really need more travelling and more "big" races? Turnouts are already down, if you add an aditional series or more "big" races the talent pool we just be weaker and weaker at each event. Just my opinion...I would probably contact Ken Miller about running the midwest series. He volunteered to run the series and he can tell you how much work it is..


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## uspancarchamps (Mar 16, 2004)

A fair point to be sure MSI...Ive been trying to get a hold of Mr Miller and I will see what he says


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## rjvk (Aug 27, 2003)

Really it should also be something to attract people to the track at the local level. Nobody needs more big races, they need to keep the doors open to race weekly. 

The only way to do this effectively is to get the results in a format which can be read by a database on a webserver. It should be a one click type of thing. The database should be able to track all this by itself. Otherwise, nobody is going to put the time in.

Too bad I'm not a programmer.:freak:


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## CarbonJoe (Jun 29, 2006)

rjvk said:


> Too bad I'm not a programmer.:freak:


Good thing you're not a programmer.:tongue:


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## uspancarchamps (Mar 16, 2004)

I was discussing this on another board and let me clarify...Im thinking of a points ranking system. itd be geared toward club level racing and encourage people to race at their tracks and if this was done in conjunction with ROAR, could be used to help with qualifiers for nationals


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## Lessen (Jan 13, 2009)

No offense, I just do not see how a national points system (more of a performance rating the way it is described) is going to boost club racing attendance. I don't dispute that it would be a nice touch, but I also agree with others that have stated that it would have to be nearly completely automated. Otherwise the results would be skewed and unreliable. I use this disclaimer a lot, but I'm pretty new to all of this racing stuff but I do believe that attendance can be directly attributed to a well run club with hard working and dedicated members.


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## uspancarchamps (Mar 16, 2004)

Im still hopeful to try something on a smaller scale but I at least wouldnt mind a LITTLE support for such an idea...


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## CarbonJoe (Jun 29, 2006)

Still unclear how the results will be used? For example, if Racer X at track Y gets to race 3 times a week, given sufficient turnout, he could get 75 points a week, racing against a bunch of other no-name racers. Meanwhile, Racer A races at another track once a week (against current and past National champs), finishes 5th, and gets 5 points. Exactly how does ROAR use these results to compare racers and qualify them for the Nationals? Is the guy with more points "better"?

At least with something like a USGA golf handicap, the difficulty of the course is taken into account. How would your proposed points system handle something like this?


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## Lessen (Jan 13, 2009)

I don't think there would be any reasonable way rate the actual track. However, in order to rate a driver you would want to look at as many contributing factors involved and any data from those factors that you can gather. There's only one piece of data that is consistant from one racetrack to the next, laptimes. It's all of matter of putting them in an equation that maintains relevance and reletivity. This kind of stuff gets my gears turnin'...


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## CarbonJoe (Jun 29, 2006)

Lessen said:


> There's only one piece of data that is consistant from one racetrack to the next, laptimes. It's all of matter of putting them in an equation that maintains relevance and reletivity. This kind of stuff gets my gears turnin'...


Laptimes based on different surfaces, differeing traction levels, different layouts (different run line length), different number of competitors per heat, etc. tell you what, exactly? Still difficult to compare apples to apples.


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## Lessen (Jan 13, 2009)

You REALLY have to work over the data pretty well Joe. I'm not saying I know how to do it, but I believe if there were a mathematician in the house they could put something together.

My train of thought is that two things are pretty constant as driver skill progress...

1. Lap times decrease (this is absolutely dependant on track conditions)
2. Lap time consistancy increases (this is NOT dependant on track conditions)

If we are unable to rate a track based on layout and grip etc. then this is really all we have to go on. Sometimes data is worth comparing, sometimes not. It's all a matter of how you put it together. I wish I knew the complete answer, but I don't. I only have ideas of concept.


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## Crptracer (Feb 19, 2007)

This might not be a bad thing for the amerature racer like myself! But it would be better if ROAR worked it out so the NATS were after the completion of all the regionals and that ameratures could compete for a spot at the nationals IE top 5 from each regional..and possibly top 2 free entry other than membership and bottom 3 discounted entry.. This would be a big boost for roar and RC that would be a heck of race to..just a thought I think it would boost regional attendance.. I understand it would take a little work but I thinks there are way more pros than cons!


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