# Choose the method of your destruction



## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

Stirling Moss hung dead man's curve to the inside and met up with one of my Hotrod gang. The survivors were removed with the jaws of life. It's a new attachment for my dremel. :tongue: 

I'd been eyeing a morph of the deuce and indy car nose for some time now. The height and width are about right. It didnt happen this time as my plans were derailed by the new issue of "Street Rodder" magazine. There was a nice expose on the Deuce. 

Aurora's modeling of the Hotrod grill/schnoz was pretty hep for it's time, but it's been a sore spot with me for a while. Okay, maybe since forever.

Pic 1: When I was sizing up the first scheme for the complete graft of the indy nose, I realized the forward nose section could be inverted into a tasty looking grill shell with a minimum of hassle. I buzzed the original nose from the Hotrod and planed the sides with the file. I'd already bonded it before I got the camera. LOL.

Pic 2: A close up showing the rough stuff. The tip of the indy nose sits about 2 mm ahead of the front post with a slight rearward rake. The shell is high/crowned above the hood, but the original hood line is a bit flat any way when compared to the original 1:1 examples. I'll correct it later. 

Pic 3: The indy hood was split straight up the gut and used for the side fills. I've used various parts of different cars in my other Deuces, but I really like the indy hood best. So far. The rest of the nose was cooked up for filler.

The magnet bulges were cut back just close enough to the door's front seam so's not to be problematic and retain the detail. Then the side fills were bonded in and filled where it meets the shell. The windsheild gash, and upper hood vent are filled at this time as well. 

Note: It looks bulgy and weird, and that's by design. This keeps the inside flush thus minimizing finish work where it's hard to reach. It also gives me the maximum amount of material to work with topside. It rips down pretty quick with a sharp file and subsequently I have very few low spots to chase later.

Pic 4: After the "globmobile" cured it was rough profiled with the file and then contoured with 600 wet. I was able to take the height of the grill shell down at the hoodline cuz I left extra material! There's a slight step there now, but it will feather out easily in the final skims as I crown the hood into a more traditional shape.

Pic 5: The Comparo pic. After wet sanding, the plastic should be glazed with Testors as a sealant. The beauty of the Testors sealant step is that it keeps grease and crud from your hands/environment out of the plastic between work sessions. Even sweeter you can bond or skim directly to it with minimum prep or easily cut it back if required.  

Since this pic it's been reskimmed. Once I knock it down again, the roof mounting holes and pipe holes in the rockers will be top filled. I always do the bottom/under fills during the first steps. This really helps minimize the shrinkage when you apply the top fills. Most hotrods have the trunk pucker where the rear post has shrunk back. This will be addressed when the rear apron is reinforced. S.O.P :thumbsup: 

Not really sure about the chassis yet, but I can already see that this bods gonna require a heavily butchered chassis. My standard shaved and bobbed modified chassis wont even fit. Lookin' like she's gonna have floating pick ups too. Oh darn...


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## bobhch (Apr 22, 2007)

This is way cool...just what I needed to see. Chop, chop....what a refreshing custom write up compared to other threads that have been making me weary here lately. 

Bill your custom work is realy neat, Bob

P.S. Do you ever sleep?


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## JordanZ870 (Nov 25, 2004)

Bill, that car is just plain ol' sexy! (I can say "sexy" on HT, yeah?)
You DID threaten to do this car some time ago, but to be honest, I had forgotten all about this plan. I love the look too! 
I am wondering how you will float the copper shoes. A little bit of solder and shorten them way up? That would hide them as much as possible, eh!

Do you have plans for a version that does not have the nose rotated 90 degrees? That might look good and would limit how much damage would need to be done to a chassis to slam it home. Just a thought, eh.

As per your usual effort, very fine work, my friend!


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## 1scalevolvo (Feb 5, 2004)

Bill you are truly a man after me own heart ! Fantastic job ! If this is not "Model Murdering" I don't know what is ! Great job !

Neal :dude:


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## tjd241 (Jan 25, 2004)

*Nice Bill...*

Me likey. I can almost see that nose hole with a fine mesh screen inserted into it for a grill. Could you just selectively remove some material around the axle holes and still use a regular chasis? {see pic} nd

BTW: Have you given any thought to what front clip you're gonna graft onto the Indy body?.... I just had to ask!


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

*As always, Thanx for playing along!*



bobhch said:


> This is way cool...just what I needed to see. Chop, chop....what a refreshing custom write up compared to other threads that have been making me weary here lately.
> 
> Bill your custom work is realy neat, Bob
> 
> P.S. Do you ever sleep?


The support, and great ideas from you guys only makes my junk better. Guaranteed, there's always a piece from the board in every one of my projects!

Bob: Truthfully there is not a whole lot of intel out there on the Vitale technique. Some have tried and failed, and I'm sure some have figured it out. Problem is the "figured it out" guys were'nt telling! I try to document the process as I puddle along. It began with trying to resurrect butchered collector pieces, which I feel is more important than my custom kill's. Unfortunatly restoration became mundane stuff for me and the custom work overtook cuz I'm a butcher at heart. It's more about the process than the product, and how the process can be applied to help others fix annoying 'lil cars. When do I sleep?!!! I'll counter with, "When was I ever awake? " 

Neal: Most of you veterans had some cool handles and by lines when I came to the board. Model Murdering seemed to fit my cut now ask questions or fix it later mentality. Made sense to me and I LMAO the when I typed it in on my header. Still it doesnt even come close to the gut bust I had over your recent "your number one post". I'll forever see that pic when I see you post up.

Joe: The floating pick ups will be like the ones on the Woodster. If that doesnt pan out I'll try the braid trick as a fallback. I think it was in one of Yoders's drag car posts.

Yeah the full graft indy nose from the cowl forward was the original concept and hasnt been vetoed. I only had two indy shells and one has been set aside for a less invasive and more traditional project. So at this point I only had one shot. Besides the full graft wouldnt be much of a challenge. More Model Manslaughter than Model Murdering. LOL. I'm thinking about some additions on that theme to make it more outlandish. Currently in the spin cycle.

I'm thinking the chassis design will be similar to the tube frame affair like the Woodster. Gonna look at it more seriously tonite.

Nuther Dave: I'm gonna knock some crackhead down and steal his pipe screen..... er ....I'll actually run a Bosch fuel injection filter on the electric can opener when Robin's not looking. :tongue: Plenty of high quality, fine mesh stainless screen. Hopefully I left enough room to shoehorn it in with out making a major production out of it.

Your chassis cutaway plan is very similar to the front mod required on all my flat side Deuces and they are very snug. I thank you for taking the time to pencil it up. I use one that I muffed the rear drop axle on way back in the day as a go-no-go buck. This time it aint gonna happen. Honestly I knew it as soon as I tapered the side fills to meet the grill shell. D'oh. This ones gonna hurt!

The next version will have a wider '34 looking grill shell requiring less taper on the hood sides. Thus it will fit on a trimmed up chassis with restricted ski shoes. The current fubar version can only be attributed to my laziness as I should have split the shell north to south and added a widening filler piece. The narrow grill was something I saw in Street Rodder so I built it regardless of the beating I'm gonna take on the chassis predicament.

To answer your final question, I think the obvious choice for the regraft on the indy body would be the tow truck. Right?????  The remnants will actually be used as a reverse jig to mock up the the full indy nose graft to the hot rod. Sterling Moss still has work to do!


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## roadrner (Jul 21, 1999)

*Sweet!*

Bill,
Another great looking mod coming to life. That new front end really makes this one. !! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: Dave


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## T-jetjim (Sep 12, 2005)

Bill - Once again, awesome work. The progress from your 2nd photo to your last is unbelievable. You have a trememdous ability to smooth everything out perfectly yet descibe it as no big deal. I am doing restorations that are taking forever with the testor's process. I see your work and wonder what am I doing wrong that takes me so long. Keep up the great work. I love these blow by blow processes!
Jim


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## gear buster (Dec 1, 2005)

*Love the indy*

Bill,

Love the Indy style nose of the hotrod. Makes them babies look lean and mean. :thumbsup: 
You are the custom guru there bud.You are making me feel like I have to schedule in and appointment so I can start slingin the mud again. :freak:
I started squirtin the old paint last night. I have a new trick you are gonna love. Hint: Louvers.  Time to kick it up a notch.
Keep up the awsome work on the hotrods. I have to go get a new cover for the keyboard. Thanks Bill..  :roll:


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## SplitPoster (May 16, 2006)

Bill, the front end looks great! It looks like some high end custom I dimly recall seeing in some old magazine - I'd never be able to find it again. You sure your nickname isn't Big Daddy?


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## jph49 (Nov 20, 2003)

SplitPoster said:


> Bill, the front end looks great! It looks like some high end custom I dimly recall seeing in some old magazine - I'd never be able to find it again. You sure your nickname isn't Big Daddy?


That wouldn't be the "Ala Kart" pickup would it? That's what it reminds me of now that you mention the custom. Had the 1/25 scale model years ago.


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

*Thanks guys*

Y'all are makin me blush.  

The ugly stuff started the other night!

Pic 1: I took one of my beater side shaved chassis bucks and took a bit off the front pan to cram it under this new body. I guess the only upshot here is that I can still use the front post.  LOL

Pic 2: This little chunk of brass proved challenging! I made two. One for the learning curve and the final example shown. Darn near threw my soldering iron out the "winder" and spent more time walking away from this than actually working on it. It's just the usual assortment of brass, a coupla AJ's jam nuts, and a trimmed up brass washer for a mount.  

I coulda just blasted some holes in the side of the body but modeling the old school front axle and spindles allowed the body to remain unscathed and still keep the stance somewhat correct.

Pic 3: Blurred a bit! For now the guide pin stays below the axle module. Had it the other way round and the stance got overly highboy. If I come up short on pin depth I'll use the antique red t-jet rear style. The radius hair pins are just a pressure fit on the chassis side plates. Looks delicate in the pics, but it's plenty tough.  

Pic 4: The AJ's jam nuts will get rounded down prior to painting the axle module. I'm not really stoked about the front wheel off set. The front specialty mags are thinned down just shy of disappearing. :freak: LOL!

I'm hoping it'll grow on me or I'll have to come up with something different.

Pic 5: This ones a push car now. I bumped it around the track with a t-jet for giggles and to see how it coasted and tracked. Now that I'm satisfied this is a viable car I'll kill one of my less than mint but servicable chassis and build a working chassis with one of Dragula's drag packs for some zoop.:thumbsup: 

So far it looks like the floating pickup assem will be made from t-jet shoes judging by the airgap at this point. 

While I'm building the chassis I'll get back after the body work now that it's had a few days to cure.

Please stay tuned, and again thanx for all your kind words!

Bill


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## sethndaddy (Dec 4, 2004)

I love them rear specialty tires. nice work again Bill.


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

sethndaddy said:


> I love them rear specialty tires. nice work again Bill.


Jumpim jillikers your up late Daddy....or up awful darn early?

Thanks Ed. I dig those rims too. I've been cutting the flange off the back side to tuck them under. Pretty good fit. Those are Super Tires low pros on it now. I saw that someone made a more rounded sidewall low pro silicone, but hanged if I can remember who!

Built the chassis tonight and a trick pick up assembly. Took a few victory laps and pulled the plug for the night. It's pretty unruly with the drag pack in it, but still gobs of fun.

More pics tomorrow after work.


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## JordanZ870 (Nov 25, 2004)

Bill!!!!!!!!
This is the same style front that hangs on your woody? Stunning! It was worth the effort!

Man, talk about a special-fit chassis, eh?! How do you keep the front hubs on?


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

*Lessons from the Woodster*

Thanks Joe. Yes similar to the Woody, but uses a mounting tab for the screw post. I also scaled down the hairpins two diameter sizes. The Woody uses conventional frame rails that are epoxy mounted direct through the forward the magnet housing. This new module allows for some adjustment and the luxury of dunking the chassis when cleaning is required. The painted frame stays pretty. 

Ha! Nuttin gets by you! The wheels were held on by a microscopic little collar made from brass tube. They were just crimped on during testing. The finished version will have the end soldered closed and they will be attached with a low tensile glue. With any luck it should look like a standard front bearing cap on a 1:1 car.

Look for some pics tonite RE the pick up assembly. Our camera battery was barfed out by the time I got to the pick up assem and maiden voyage.



Soldering 'lil bits of brass together should be a punishment for the wicked.

Robin pops in the slot room and sez," You makin' jewelry again?" I say, "Yes,#%&*@! Please kill me or go away!"

The hard part is keeping it all jigged/square. :freak:


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## *MAYHEM* (May 4, 2007)

Looks great, Bill. 

Here's a trick I use on extended frames like that to get the guide pin closer to the wheels: Turn the pin around and move the screw to the back hole, adjust the body mounts to compensate. Makes the car handle much better as well.

Now take the remains of that indy roadster and put a International wrecker front end on it.


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

*MAYHEM* said:


> Looks great, Bill.
> 
> Here's a trick I use on extended frames like that to get the guide pin closer to the wheels: Turn the pin around and move the screw to the back hole, adjust the body mounts to compensate. Makes the car handle much better as well.
> 
> Now take the remains of that indy roadster and put a International wrecker front end on it.


Thanx Mayhem. What?! Move a screw post! You maniac! Just joshing. I've used your trick on occasion. I'm generally not to picky about where stuff winds up on a custom; but this one required some consideration towards pick up geometry, so moving the post back and flipping the pin wasnt an option.  

The following pics show the floating pick up assem. The relief hole for the guid pin also restricts downward travel. I't's essentially the same as a wheelie pick up, except without the extra kink and the guide pin stays on the chassis rather than mounted to the cross brace. 

The topside will get a coat of matte black during finishing. What little of it does show when the body is installed will blend right into the track surface.


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## T-Jet Racer (Nov 16, 2006)

Het Bill,
Now I would solder shunt wires on the shoes keeping that front one a little tight to hold the springs in, just my opinion, great job so far!


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## JordanZ870 (Nov 25, 2004)

Hey Bill! Thanks for the update!
Nice little floating assembly, hey! :thumbsup:

What did you cut the hole and notch in the clear plastic with? Your butt-cheeks?!(looks kinds chewed ) LOL
Only kidding, eh! I think it is a really cool little unit. I can't wait to see it with the bod on!
(BTW, I have 6 "you-know-whats" out of 10 ready! :thumbsup:


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

T-Jet Racer said:


> Het Bill,
> Now I would solder shunt wires on the shoes keeping that front one a little tight to hold the springs in, just my opinion, great job so far!


 T-jet, good idea. 

Really I modify the shoe hook (bend) so the assembly wont come out until it's folded all the way back. 

The springs are set with CA, gotta digem out if you want to change them.

The guide pin restricts the assembly travel! It's all locked down.

Joe: What?!!! You dont approve of my "butt cheek prototype"  LOL.

Sorry to upset your delicate sensibilities. Truthfully I was remiss and didnt get the fine stone out so's I could purdy that up for ya.

Just couldnt wait to get a pic and put it on the track! No time for interior decorating. :tongue:


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## T-Jet Racer (Nov 16, 2006)

Really I modify the shoe hook (bend) so the assembly wont come out until it's folded all the way back. 

The springs are set with CA, gotta digem out if you want to change them.

The guide pin restricts the assembly travel! It's all locked down.



See I knew we would get the secrets out of you if we helped enough!


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

T-Jet Racer said:


> ....See I knew we would get the secrets out of you if we helped enough!


LOL! Secrets?! Snicker. 

More like lost ancient knowledge that only old farts like me remember. When my brain works anyway. 

"Ya see it was about ninteen and sixty eight...zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz"


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## bobhch (Apr 22, 2007)

Bill Hall said:


> Robin pops in the slot room and sez," You makin' jewelry again?" I say, "Yes,#%&*@! Please kill me or go away!"


Nice work...way cool...Please kill me or go away lol :lol:


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

*Add Lid*

Finally got back into the hobby room.

The hood to grill shell contour is starting to come around after two skims. The hood crown now has enough height to blend into the nose. Still got a knot or two to knock down when I get to 1500.

The standard Hotrod roof was trimmed at the back mounts for the chopped look. The little nibblets that were cut off got used for A pillars. The lid was secured to the rear cockpit bolster, well forward of it's normal position. After it was bonded to the body the overhanging leading edge was pared back flush to the A pillar.

The chopped roof was then rough contoured with a file and reslobbered with goo. The stock roof is very flat and clashed with the more rounded shape of the nose. Tommorrow night it'll get the fine file and some 600 to establish a slight roof curvature that with any luck will compliment the hood line. 

Next I've got to decide what color the final spray will be so I can match the tinted glass and get it fit. The white just isnt doing it for me so far.


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## coach61 (Sep 6, 2004)

looking killer Bill! good work!


Coach :thumbsup:


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## sethndaddy (Dec 4, 2004)

I will be on the lookout for $1.00 cars at the next slot show for chop up parts for ya Bill. Too fun seeing all the excellent work.


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

Thanks Coach Nikolai. You woolly Bolshevik! This rod has been a comedy of errors. She's been really close to your special hammer a coupla' times!

Killer?! Looks to me like you've just massacreed the Czar and his family. The star and the sickle? I'm still trying to figure out how this applies to recent events. Some sort of disguise to mask your true elitest stature???

ED: Jeebus that's a very nice thought. Thanks!
Even the KFC Aurora bodies (extra crispy) have taken a mind blowing jump on the bay. I'm in desperate need of red, blue, green, and yellow.


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## coach61 (Sep 6, 2004)

Bill Hall said:


> Thanks Coach Nikolai. You woolly Bolshevik! This rod has been a comedy of errors. She's been really close to your special hammer a coupla' times!
> 
> Killer?! Looks to me like you've just massacreed the Czar and his family. The star and the sickle? I'm still trying to figure out how this applies to recent events. Some sort of disguise to mask your true elitest stature???
> 
> ...


If you'd get off your duff and email me your bloody addy you'd have some green scrap, and some yellow scrap and some various should have not been scraps but light benders do tend to explode some times..lol... :wave: 

Ya I kind of thought the icon expressed my displeasure enough lol....

Dave


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## videojimmy (Jan 12, 2006)

Bill... you are the custom king... I love your work


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

Thanks for the props VJ, back atchoo. 

The credit really goes to all our members and their inspiring mountain work!


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

*Yellar!*

Mixed up a batch of AFX yellow courtesy of Gearbuster. I diced up a yellow AFX funny car from the box of culls he sent me and a cruddy yellow AFX 'Vette that I'd had hangin around. 24 hrs later I had bright yellow. :thumbsup: 

Pic 1 : Is a comparo shot of where we started and where we are today.
The AFX yellow is reminiscent of the lemon colored Vibe hotrods. What really happened to the color yellow in the early and middle T-jet years?!!! Strangely Bobhch and I were cosmically linked on the yellar thing. RE: his pretty yellow '57. 

Pic 2 : Dont be laughin' at my WD40 swizel stick wheel retainers. :tongue: I was too geeked up to build the proper brass units tonight. I was more concerned about running some laps. Initially the floating pick up assem was a bit off and combined with the "Drag Pack" guts she'd hop the slot when you snapped the throttle. A little extra kink was put back by the shoe hooks to adjust the geometry and prevent wheelies. I ran about 50 laps and pitted for the night. Handles good on the drop axle chassis inspite of the body's higher center of gravity. 

Pic 3 : I cut a piece of screen and prefit it to an indy car nose then I crammed it in the Deuce cuz I coundnt stand the open nose another minute!
The mesh still needs to come forward a bit but so far I like the stainless screen and it's a pretty convincing period look.

It took some extra time to get the roof contour rounded out, but if you compare previously posted pics of the stock roof it was definately worth the 3 extra skims to get it right.


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## zanza (Sep 23, 2005)

I followed all this thread before posting my wow and whaaa, but I can't resist more.

Bill, your Deuce simply rocks, an awesome job form every point I look at it....well maybe except your WD retainers LOL

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


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## *MAYHEM* (May 4, 2007)

Sweet!!!


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## gear buster (Dec 1, 2005)

*Hats Off*

Well Bill,
I have to say it again. That ride looks sweet as cherry pie.. :dude: 
How come when I mix up some goo I never find a car like that in it.. :freak: 
Glad you could use the rusted and busted I sent ya. :thumbsup:


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## WesJY (Mar 4, 2004)

Bill..

Excellent work man!!! i like the yellow the best!!! its a looker man!! if you put a skull decal or something it ll make it look meaner!!! 

Wes


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## SplitPoster (May 16, 2006)

Looks like a Boyd Coddington job to me. Not just pretty work, but beautiful lines like something that sprang up from chalk lines on the garage floor instead of chewed up T jets.


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## bobhch (Apr 22, 2007)

WesJY said:


> Bill..
> 
> Excellent work man!!! i like the yellow the best!!! its a looker man!! if you put a skull decal or something it ll make it look meaner!!!
> 
> Wes


I agree with Wes...That yellow rod is sweet! Bill a skull decal and some small Mooneyes would be Greeeeeeeeeeeeeat. Well it's your baby and it looks Freakin" Frantastic. The screen in the grill...get outa here! Woah Yeah!

Bob


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

*Many thanks guys!*

Zanza: Three thumbs up? Wow! Thank you.

I did this one backwards-built the body first; then worried about little things like how to make it fit and go down the track respectably. LOL! I almost layed an egg on this one. 

Mayhem: "Sweet" was a long time coming on this one. Thanks!

Gearbuster: I was thinking more of Lemon Meringue pie when I was spraying this one, but Cherry pie ala'mode is my fav. LOL. 

Sometimes I dont find the car either, but I just chip them up and start over...snicker...
Not much goes to waste here! I just dont post the duds! Your box of culls will be given new life. Thanks for your contribution!

Wes: Thanks! I hadnt considered the "Skull", however one of the things that always bugged me about the original was the lack of good space for a proper flame job. I think I've finally got a big enough area for a good flame layout. This may be the one!

Split: Chewing up cruddy T-jets has become seriously fun for me. Truthfully "Yellar" was inspired by the 75th Anneversary of the Duece Streetrodder rag, and a comment "T-Jet" made a while back about the dated original Hotrod grill. Which of course was custom in it's day, but everything has come full circle in styling these days. So the old school designs are back in vogue. Cripes I'm old! LOL.

I was planning a wider '34 styled grill shell for a future version. Thinking that it may ride on a less intensly modified chassis more like my other recent pups. IE: No floating pickups and freestyle front axle. So far it doesnt look promising due to the fact that the wider grill shell will only further compromise the stock pick up hangers. Like that's ever stopped me.  

This car is more of an excercise about how not to do it. LOL! She's as tight as you can cut it. Rear drop axle, tubbed at the rear magnet housing, shaved chassis sides, front pan delete, and a bobbed rear screw apron, all just to cram it all under the body! :freak: 

The fun is over now and the mundane chores of fitting glass, building pipes, and refitting the cockpit await. Currently toying with the idea of frenching some rear tail lights and building some out rigger headlight buckets just to avoid the finishing drudgery. :tongue:

Bob: Thanks also! You snuck in while I was blathering on about silly 'lil cars.
Like I told Wes, I'm leaning towards some crisp flames on the wide open spaces this body provides. I've got plenty of time to decide. LOL. Yellar's gonna get blocked and sprayed a couple more times.....well..... just cuz I'm a nut


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