# Racing format?



## BewstdGT (Jan 4, 2005)

I have a nice 4 lane setup now and wanted to get some friends into racing but I'm not sure how to do a racing format. I don't have the cash to do a timing system right now. But without lap counters I wasn't sure how to organize it. I was thinking about racing 4 guys at a time with a 1 to 2 minute timer. And maybe make a tournament points system to determine who wins. For you guys that don't have timers and lap counters, how do you have a tourny for a small group? I just want it to be organized so it's not chaos in hopes that people want to keep doing it. If the interest is there I'll save up for a timing system but if they don't get into it I'm not gonna waste the $200 on TrackMate right now. If anyone has experience in this dept I'm curious to hear suggestions. Thanks!


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## TK Solver (Mar 18, 2004)

*Some ideas*

Our group runs all but one race each season at tracks with lap timing equipment. Without a lap timer, you have to consider a few things... how many extra guys will you have for race marshals and how many cars and races will be used for the event.

If you've got fewer than 8 guys, it can be tough to marshal a four-lane race. You don't want to be starting and stopping the race because of crashes. So if you've only got 6 guys, you might want to just do a round-robin tournament where everyone races everyone else twice -- once in each of the two middle lanes. With 6 guys, that's a total of 30 races. You could double it and have them race 4 times each by including the other two lanes. If you use a two-minute timer, that's a total of two hours of race time. Everyone would race a total 20 times during the event -- five times in each of the four lanes. Keep track of each driver's wins.

From experience, these one-on-one races tend to be very different from four-man races because you're only trying to beat one person. Sometimes, they feel a lot like olympic speed skating events where the racers aren't going all out until the end because they don't want to crash early which would mean certain defeat. You kinda' toy with each other until the last few laps and then go for it. It's fun.

If you've got enough guys to be able to marshal four-lane races, then simply schedule twice as many races as you have drivers and such that everyone races twice in each lane during the event. I have spreadsheets set up for events with between 8 and 13 racers, distributing the races such that everyone races each other a similar number of times during the night and everyone races twice in each lane. Assign points for finishing position and sum up each person's 8 scores for the night. That works for tracks with timing systems as well. 

I'm attaching a sample spreadsheet. For each race, the letter in parentheses indicates the lane. For example (w) means that car/driver races in the white lane. I have similar spreadsheets for bigger groups. Let me know if you need one.

Having said all that, don't hesitate to look into timing hardware. Radio shack sells everything you need to create a four-lane timer/lap counter which interfaces with the free Laptimer 2000 software on Greg Braun's web site (hoslotcarracing.com). If you have a spare PC and monitor, the cost is around $50 and well worth the effort. Three of the tracks on our circuit include that timing system and all work reliably.

Have fun!


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## BewstdGT (Jan 4, 2005)

Thanks for explaining all that, and for posting the spreadsheet. I'll likely not have more than 5 or 6 show up. So marshals would be a problem. Your solution is probably a good one.

I actually built an IR LED timing system using LT2000 per Greg's specs and I never got it to count, likely a port issue on my laptop. I still have all the parts to do it but I lost faith in it when so many people here said it counts very inconsistently. I was leaning more towards the dead track strip idea and using Track Mate so it's 100% reliable.


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## TK Solver (Mar 18, 2004)

*Lap Timer Kits*

I'm surprised that no one else is selling those LT 2000 compatible kits besides Greg Braun. Reading these forums, it seems that there are dozens of customers just waiting for an inexpensive alternative to TrackMate. Unfortunately, I've also read many posts like yours about problems interfacing with different PC ports. Timing is such a vital component of the hobby. Most guys aren't looking for complete race management software. They just want reliable timing and lap counting. That shouldn't be expensive.


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## Ohio_Danimal (Jan 13, 2012)

I gotta tell you...anyone who takes the time to build a large 4 lane CAN have timing.
The software is FREE

ANY old OC will run it. You can get said PC at most thrift stores for almost free.

The reed switches are CHEAP and easy to mount into a track section if you have a dremel and some 5 min plastic epoxy.

I think reeds are the best way. No light bridge needed and they work on ALL cars from weak ol' Tjets to whatever else.


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## BewstdGT (Jan 4, 2005)

Correct me if I'm wrong but I was under the impression reed switches were magnetically triggered and t-jets don't work as they have no magnets? I thought I read that years ago. 

I still have all of the LEDs and 25 pin wiring I tried using before. But the track is a fold up 4x10 table so I don't want to use a PC. I'll have to find an old laptop with a db25 port because it needs to be portable. You race anywhere locally Danimal? I'm in south Akron. I've been to Rt 93 a few times so I wasnt sure if you go there.


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

What about a Crash and Burn style format.
You might not even need to count laps,depends on how good your racers are,lol.


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## Grampa Ho (Feb 25, 2009)

Run as crash and burn.
X laps for heats with a fixed rotation. you come off, shucky darn. if someone comes off in your lane your back in. count the laps out loud. if you race 4 at a time, 4 points for first 3 for second, 2 for third and 1 point for fourth.
Maybe even no points if you do not finish. top points go into a main or feature. same points. we let the lowest point earner that makes it to the main chose his/her lane first to offset the faster/better/ car/ driver.
no marshalling. we run 5 lap heats for one class and 7 lap heats for others. 7 lap features and 10 lap features. 4 classes a night. been doing this this way at our non computerized tracks for 40 + years now and it is easy once you start to work with it. you can always tweak it to your needs but we have tweaked about as much as we need to to Keep It Simple Stupid. we call it the KISS method. 
Most of all, have fun with it and trial and error will work it's magic.


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## LDThomas (Nov 30, 1999)

*T-Jets and reed switches are a match made in Heaven*



BewstdGT said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong but I was under the impression reed switches were magnetically triggered and t-jets don't work as they have no magnets? I thought I read that years ago.


Consider yourself corrected. :wave:


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## slotking (May 27, 2008)

t-jets do have magnets
and they do have down force to the track

if you huge tire on the t-jets, they may not count! I have seen that before

BewstdGT

PM me you email address, i will send you excel copy of the race form we use.
sweet and simple.

as far as software, race coordinator does work
you just need the PC & cable


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

I have joined a racing group which runs a crash and burn format with 5 lap heats. It's pretty easy to count up to five without any external help. What this does is allow even the guy with the slowest car to compete if he can stay in the slot longer than the fastest car. There have been heats when I was the only guy to complete all 5 laps (if you haven't guessed, I'm the guy with the slowest car).

However, if I were to host a race, I would do a crash and burn format where you are eliminated when you either deslot or get lapped. If it's a short track, maybe lapped twice. Whoever goes the farthest without deslotting is the winner. Could be interesting if a lot of guys are matched in speed and ability.

Joe


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## slotking (May 27, 2008)

problem is getting newer folks race with crash & burn!
1 lap and your out

We race timed heats and everyone get to race 3 to 5 minutes
the marshal puts them back on and they are still having fun.

sorry, i always hated racing crash & burn


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

If you were to run a marshalled race, what I think would really be cool is if power was automatically cut to your lane for a given amount of time when you deslotted. More than enough time for the marshall to reslot your car without being screamed at. In this way, every deslot is penalized the same and the marshall has enough time to handle all the deslots calmly. Ten seconds would probably be enough.

Maybe even hook up a track call button on each lane which must be pushed when you deslot and starts the timer.

Joe


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

*The joys of Crash n Burn*

We race a lap and a half race, and have been for years.
We use a points system for the finishers. This allows us to run
several different classes of cars, and add up the points at the end 
of the night to determine the nights champion.










We usually have four to six racers. 
The many different classes and sometimes the sit outs 
level the playing field from the best racers to the beginners.
If your the first one to crash, you still get fourth place points for the heat,
versus, if you are racing for 3 minutes, everytime you crash you are losing
laps. Don't tell me being 20 laps behind the leader at the end of a heat 
isn't discouraging to a new racer. In our race, the objective is simple,
first one to the finish line wins. It's like a drag race on a road course.

This will give you more of an idea of how we race our classes.
Everyone runs through each lane twice in each class.
These videos were captured on Larry's iPhone.

This first video is looking out from under the palm trees at the end of the third straight.
This one gives the best overall view of the track, but not the finish.
I think Ben wins this one.






This next one is from inside the loop at the end of the first and second straights.
Jim gets excited.






This one is looking down the main straight. We race to the red cone.





We have a blast racing this way!
*Ironically, we haven't raced near as much since we got computerized lap counters.*


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## slotking (May 27, 2008)

> Don't tell me being 20 laps behind the leader at the end of a heat
> isn't discouraging to a new racer.


nope
would rather race for 3 minutes that 3 seconds and crash at the 1st turn

they also learn to drive better faster, because they learn the track instead of standing there waiting for their next 3 second time on the track.

I have seen C&B racers really enjoy the longer racing times times.

I know I will not convince you, nor you me. I am just stating that each racer has to pick what they like!
for me,
marshaled racing is the best


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

Even after we added the lap counters, we still have more fun racing like this.
Some video of our single lap racing. Life Like T chassis. 
The plumber's light bridge is the finish.

First up, a narrow victory for yellow lane over the green lane.





Next up, red lane wins as green takes out yellow, then stalls.





Each row is a different class. ie body, chassis, era, 
Each single file line is one racers cars.









This was our race classes for New Years Eve 1994.
That was a 14 hour race night. I wish I had more pics from this time.


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## BewstdGT (Jan 4, 2005)

Thanks for all the input gents. I'll probably try them all out and see how that goes. I have a lot to think about now.


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## slotking (May 27, 2008)

http://slotcar64.freeyellow.com/B.htm

the above link shows the point format for 1 of classes.

again if you or anyone is interested in our race night lane & lap sheet
I can email it to you.

it is a excell spreadsheet


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## BewstdGT (Jan 4, 2005)

My email is [email protected] if you don't mind shooting the hard copy over to me. Thanks!


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## slotking (May 27, 2008)

sent you the form


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## Ohio_Danimal (Jan 13, 2012)

BewstdGT said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong but I was under the impression reed switches were magnetically triggered and t-jets don't work as they have no magnets? I thought I read that years ago.
> 
> I still have all of the LEDs and 25 pin wiring I tried using before. But the track is a fold up 4x10 table so I don't want to use a PC. I'll have to find an old laptop with a db25 port because it needs to be portable. You race anywhere locally Danimal? I'm in south Akron. I've been to Rt 93 a few times so I wasnt sure if you go there.


I used to race at Rt 93 every Friday, and took home many a trophy for racing in various Tjet series over the years. Haven't raced there in 2-3 years but do stop by around closing time now and then to drink beer with Frank and shoot the shyte.

My buddy and I have a very nice 4 lane track in Brimfield, just outside of Kent (look at my post here in General Discussion where I am looking for folks to join in our racing) that we are close to completing (rails to be glued and honed and then done)
The track as it is is running VERY well right now, even for skinny tire Tjets. We're just going to get it perfect.

As far as reed switches, modern mini's are VERY sensitive and will even pick up a Tjet with large diameter wheels. We haven't had a timing issue in years.
With a plunge/side cutter on your dremel, you just cut a slot in between the slot and one rail and then cover the topside with tape well. Invert the track and then using a few hemostats place the soldered reeds into place and then slowly fill the area with 5 minute epoxy.

The "difficult" part of this is first making sure that you carefully bend the wires coming from the glass tube down so that the two reeds are FLAT, facing up. Then solder each reed switch to the two wires for that lane.

I could show you in person, and do have extra reed swithes (ordered on Ebay from a seller in Bulgaria)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/250966396957?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649


PM me if interested in racing! Friday nights usually.:wave:


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## slotcarman12078 (Oct 3, 2008)

Speaking of reed switches, I've found that there are options to consider when buying. Reed switches are available in different styles, such as usually open or usually closed. They come in different trigger strengths, so they can be hard to get to function or very sensitive to a magnet. They are also available in higher and lower amperage capacities. Getting the right or wrong reeds can make all the performance difference in the world!


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## Ohio_Danimal (Jan 13, 2012)

slotcarman12078 said:


> Speaking of reed switches, I've found that there are options to consider when buying. Reed switches are available in different styles, such as usually open or usually closed. They come in different trigger strengths, so they can be hard to get to function or very sensitive to a magnet. They are also available in higher and lower amperage capacities. Getting the right or wrong reeds can make all the performance difference in the world!


If he makes sure to buy ones that are 25mm or shorter, and are "normal open" he'll be fine.
The one's a posted a link to are 20mm (tiny) and are VERY sensitive. 
Years ago the reed plates weren't gold or rhodium plated as they are now, which allows the reed plate to be very thin and not corrode after a short period.
I have only had one fails in 10 years and they are easily replaced.


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## slotcarman12078 (Oct 3, 2008)

I hear ya!! Just threw that tidbit up there so folks who never dealt with them before were aware. I used reeds for automating my slots so they'd stop at my RR Xing when the gates went down.. When I fused the lower amperage ones I tried, I got a lesson in reeds. :lol: Lap counting doesn't require the amps used when you start a slot. I went from tiny reeds to huge!! :freak:


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## slotking (May 27, 2008)

> just outside of Kent


my old stomping grounds
I was a bouncer at the rendezvous(spelling) on main street


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## Ohio_Danimal (Jan 13, 2012)

slotking said:


> my old stomping grounds
> I was a bouncer at the rendezvous(spelling) on main street


So I picture you as either tall or big, not short and small.

I spent too many evenings drinking beer in Kent in my youth.:hat: You may have kicked ME out at one time lol


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## slotking (May 27, 2008)

what helped is it was a bar for the older crowd, late 20's
my friends (due to my VET brother) at the time where all Nam vets.
So the 1 time anyone caused a problem, i was at the front door when a about 5'4" tall and the same wide (muscle)!! I said I hope he does not cause a problem!! LOL 

an hour later 2 friends were walking him out in a wrist lock!
both nam vets and 1 a cop the other a fireman
so my job was easy! 

The other story is for adults only


I grew in cleveland and went to St. Peter Chanel across the street from Bedford HS


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## slotking (May 27, 2008)

back on topic

as far as racing formats etc..

go to HOPRA.net

check out the free rule book!
lots of info to use as is or tweak for yourself!!

that saves a lot of time.


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