# Advice for 12th scale on road racing.



## RunninFree (Oct 7, 2001)

I am new to 12 scale racing.

Where I race is in-doors on ozite carpeting.
4 cell stock motors.
I am planning on buying an Associated Rc12L3?

Any thoughts on this car?
Set-ups?
Tires?

Any help welcomed.


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## Guest (Nov 11, 2001)

This car is a blast to drive. I run 5 cell stock on asphalt. Refer to the Proline/Jaco chart for tire selection.


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## Guest (Nov 11, 2001)

I'm running on ozite carpet also. Very tight track. Running stock setup (greens all around, 1/2 goop on front, full goop on back tires), Nissan P35 body, low ride height insert, the most restrictive pod spacer in the kit. Running an MVP (high RPM!) with light springs.

Good luck








JOe


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## john (Jan 1, 1970)

The L3 is great out of the box. Easy to set up and consistant week to week. The GM3 is the motor of choice where we race. 4499 on the + and reedy 769 on the negative, red & green spring. It's easy to tell who isn't running one.
As for tires most run greens all around but they don't last long. Purple fronts & Gray rears is a good choice if you want tires to last longer but they cost more. They aren't as responsive as greens but they work good.

Good Luck! 1/12th is FUN







!


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## RunninFree (Oct 7, 2001)

What is the best servo for 12th scale?
Torque?
Speed?
Both?


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

KO's mini servo is unreal, but super fast and expensive ($90.00)!!! I use Air 94145 and love it (as do a lot of pros), but others have trouble with them centering. Mine centers just fine.I gave up my 12L3 for a Speedmerchant and I like it better, though a 12L3 is a good car. Tweak plate or tweak springs, its your choice.

30 plus ounces of torque is sufficient and 0.07 sec. or less to 60 degrees is exceptional. You need at least 30 oz. torque and 0.09 sec. to 60.

[This message has been edited by rayhuang (edited 11-20-2001).]


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

Standard universally accepted 12L3 set up for Ozite is as follows.

Purple fronts (sauce for steering amount).
018 or 020 front springs
1 degree toe out 1.5 degree of camber
ride height determned by bumps
Stock caster setting 
Arms on chassis-cut tires to get rideheight.

30 wt. oil in VCS shock, grn, red, blue etc. spring (in other words-any of the medium to med. stiff springs).

Set damper plate with light tension and keep it clean. A very light coat of lube.

069 to 074 tweak plates (buy a bunch of them, they are not what they say on the package!!!)
Stiffer the plate, the more steering, but more twitchy. Use all three screws if you hit stuff or youll stress crack a t-plate every weekend, then it wont work right!!!

Grey rears sauced full always. Rear level w/ front or a little lower to smooth out steering.

I hope this helps.

Ray


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## RunninFree (Oct 7, 2001)

Thanks for all the help!


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

No problem, now go get a Rev.3!!!  hahahaha!!! Actually both a friend and I have used 12L3's for sale with lots of spares. If your interested, drop me a line and I'll get abhold of him. We will be racing the Champss this week, so dont expect to hear from us anytime this week though. 

Good luck!!!!


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## RunninFree (Oct 7, 2001)

Ok, so I have bought a 12L3.

What is the best way to set tweak?


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## john (Jan 1, 1970)

Notch the rear pod with an exacto knife. 
Put the notch at the center of the CAR, not the center of the rear pod. 

Put the car on a flat surface and with an exacto in the notch, lift the rear. Both rear wheels should lift at the same time. 

Hope this helps







.
John


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

Wow, wrote a long post adding on to john's reply, and poof, its gone. BUMMER!!!!!

You can set tweak on a tweak station (like Niftech's or MIP's (must shorten MIP's to work best)).

1. To start from scratch: Loosen both tweak screws till rear pod can flop a "little" side to side. Evenly tighten both screws till they just make contact with chassis and the rear pod sits level with main chassis (when viewed underneath and looking front to back).

2. Attach a transponder and set car on tweak board and tap VCS shock where it attaches to rear pod, and tap on the servo to set front and rear suspension (very important you do this EVERY time!!).

3. Whatever side the bubble is on is the light side. Tighten the tweak screw opposite the light side and loosen the tweak screw on the light side "equal amounts". 
Keeep doing this till bubble sits in the middle. 

4. Run it!!!! If when hitting the throttle out of slow turns and the car pulls slightly one way, even though car is perfect on tweak board, check these three things. One, just give a slight tightening of tweak screw to the direction it is pulling (making sure to loosen other side) or two check for uneven tire sizes and re-tweak and last, check diff. It may be really tight. This combined with a slight chassis imbalance and you have a car that wont accelerate straight.

One last note: The car will veer to the direction with the less weighted front tire. So even though tweaking a car is a must, dont be afraid top make a change to the car on what you feel on the track!!!!

Also, tweak the car everytime you change batteries, motor, gearing, suspension. It may help you find a backing off screw in T-plate, something cracked, etc!!!! 

Hope this helps,








Ray


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## Ted Flack (Sep 26, 2001)

I set tweek in a cheaper way, it only cost 50 cents!! Anyways.. I put a quarter on each of the front tires, (making sure there both in the same spot), Then i lift the front of the car with a wrench from the middle of the chassis, in front. Whichever quarter falls off first I tighten down the tweek screw on that side. 

Also.. I use purple/grey tires. 0.78 T-plate, with a green spring and 40 weight oil. Try different lubes on the plates to find one you like.

Later..

Bobby Flack 

[This message has been edited by Ted Flack (edited 12-04-2001).]


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## RunninFree (Oct 7, 2001)

Today will be my first experience in 12th scale.

With advice from all above, I will let everyone know how I did.


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## john (Jan 1, 1970)

Well it's easy to know when you're getting good in 1/12th scale road course:

When your electronics aren't flopping around in your car after a heat







!

Have Fun! 1/12th is GREAT!

Where do you race at?


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## RunninFree (Oct 7, 2001)

Man, what great fun!!!!!

Won all three of the heat races.
TQ'd with 37 laps at 8:01.

There were only four of us racing. Other's did not make it tonight. Our best racer was also not there.

I came in second. Not bad for my first time out.

Were I lost it I believe was not gearing up in the main. Started at a rollout of 42.0. Ran all four races with the same gear ratio 96/28. After the race I checked my rollout and it was down to 40.0. If I figured everything correctly I believe that I should have been using a 32 tooth pinion. So I was off speed in the main by 4 teeth!

I race in Knoxville, Tennessee.

I also can't believe that I did not break anything.

Now only if I could get my touring car to run this good.


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

RunninFree- when I sold someone my TC3, which I raced for a year, he won first time out with it. Now I sold you a 12th scale car that I built and you TQ'd with it!!!! Hmmmmm...







Hahahaha!!!!! My cars are always faster with someone else driving them!!!!


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

Not seeing your track, your rolout seems to be real close at 42 (1.65")!!!!


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## RunninFree (Oct 7, 2001)

Do you keep rollout the same with say two different motors?

Motor 1: 20,000 rpm.
Motor 2: 18,000 rpm.

How would you go about figuring gearing?


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## chicky03 (Oct 17, 2001)

Divide the rpm by the gear ratio and you get a #. Then divide the other motors rpm by the # you got in the first sentence, you will get the gear ratio to run with the other motor.


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## RunninFree (Oct 7, 2001)

All right got some new wheels and tires.

What is the best way to lower the front ride height?

I remember from my old 10LSS, I had some tree hole shims to use. I have no idea where they are. Is this still the bese way?
Does Associated still make them? If so does anybody know the part number?


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## Ted Flack (Sep 26, 2001)

I use the aluminum washers from Associated. Any washer will work if you can't find the plastic spacers.

[This message has been edited by Ted Flack (edited 12-24-2001).]


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

Vodo-here you go.


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## vodo321 (Nov 15, 2001)

Hey thanks a lot. 

Can someone give me some basics for carpet road and oval???


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## RunninFree (Oct 7, 2001)

What guage of wire do you use?

Our local "fast" racer uses 16 guage. Says that 12 guage can cause "tweaking" of the car - to ridgid.

What do you think?

Man I am getting out horsepowered here lately.

What motors are you running? What springs and brushes?

Also, I have picked up glitch. Someone said that using a Novak receiver on graphite is a no no. Has anyone else had problems usings a Novak receiver?

Thanks for any answers!


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

16 gauge is fine. Especially running stock. Run the wires in such a way that they have virtually no effect on pod movement AND does not get hit by the body on top. If the wires are being pressed down by the body, then it is probably pressing down on your pod, tweaking the car. I use a little longer wire than you would think is neccesary, but it is run-low and makes a gradual curve to the motor tabs.

Glitching is the WORST!!!! Stand up the reciever with crsytal up, make sure antennae is not touching anything but fiberglass.Use two layers of tape if you need to. Replace crystals if the car took a big hit, then started to glitch. Replace or add caps on motors. Replace motor if it arcs a lot.

Brushes and springs.... E's or 767's with blue or green springs. If blue springs-dont hit anything!!!! You'll hang a brush. Dont be afraid to gear way up or down for a qualifier. Maybe your just in la la land on gearing.

Motors. I am an Epic motor fan. P2K, P2K2, Paradox's are my favorites. Experiment with brushes, springs and cut the heck out of brushes till you find something you like!!!

[This message has been edited by rayhuang (edited 02-04-2002).]


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## john (Jan 1, 1970)

RunninFree- The fastest motor for 4 cell 1/12th at our track is the GM3 with either Trinity 4499's (E's) or Reedy 769's. 
Red spring on +, green on -.


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## RunninFree (Oct 7, 2001)

Thanks for everyones help!

Next question. What traction sauce does everyone use?


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## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

Paragon is da sauce of choice.

If the track doesn't allow paragon, I'll use TQ-8. And, if the track also doesn't allow TQ products, then I don't race there.









[This message has been edited by rchang (edited 02-19-2002).]


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## john (Jan 1, 1970)

What rchang said!!







. 
They banned Paragon at our track...too many watering eyes on the stand







.


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## Xpressman (Dec 6, 2001)

It's not the paragon that makes the eyes water, it is trying not to blink for 8 mins.


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## john (Jan 1, 1970)

> <font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">Originally posted by Xpressman:
> *It's not the paragon that makes the eyes water, it is trying not to blink for 8 mins.
> 
> 
> ...


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## Guest (Mar 1, 2002)

Thinking of getting a 4-cell 1/12 car. I am considering either a CRC Carpet Knife 4-cell or a Trinity SB 4cell. Any comments? How are these cars handle comparing to a 6 cell chassis car? I am now running a Trinity SB 6 cell and an Assoc 12L2. And I usually race on asphalt.

Thanks in advance.


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## john (Jan 1, 1970)

vhmlaw - My son switched from the 6 cell SB to the new 4 cell version of the SB and he is faster with it. He likes it better compared to the "older one". This is on carpet though. He won't let me drive the new one so i can't tell you first hand







I can only say the 6 cell one was/is sweet!

Trinity sells a conversion kit to change your 6 cell to the 4 cell... save yourself a few $. Many of the parts that fit the "old" fit the "new".

Good Luck!


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## Xpressman (Dec 6, 2001)

I have a Bloody Knife and my brother has the Trinity 6-cell car. I think the CRC car has alot more steering and feels like it wants to be driven hard. It also has alot of steering that doesn't seam to always be there on the Trinity. I have driven the new Trinity 4-cell car and I like it. Not as mush as my CRC just because I don't want to make myself feel bad. I think the Trinity car is also cheaper then the CRC car. It really comes down to personal prefence.


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

Right in the middle of the CRC and SB12 is the Rev.3 I think. The SB's have a comfortable push to them. The CRC I hear turns very hard. The Speedmerchant Rev.3 has a lot of steering, but isn't as aggressive as the CRC. That is from what I have "heard" though. On a smooth, high-bite surface the Rev.3 is very-very fast!!! It takes a little more set-up work to get them to work on a bumpy track.


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## Guest (Mar 4, 2002)

Thank you all for the input. I guess I will get a 4 cell conversion kit for my SB first to see whether the 4 cell chassis really make a difference. Where do u guys get your CRC Carpet Knifies? I find ordering from CRC directly is often fairly expensive.


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## Guest (Mar 4, 2002)

How often do u guys replace your T-plate? My friend suggests me to replace the T-plate every 25-30 runs. Cause he says it will lose the flex after a while.


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## MaShaun (Sep 25, 2001)

vhmlaw:

I bought my CK from my local hobby shop. Most of the hobby shops here (Columbus Ohio
) carry it. You might be able to order it through a local shop for lower than direct from CRC.

MaShaun


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

I ran my Rev.3 last weekend in mod and didnt change the set-up all from stock!!! The only change was putting more traction compound on the fronts (from my usual 1/2 to 3/4 to 7/8th). Car was FAST!!! There were three big bumps and the car caught air, but was still driveble!!! The SB12's, 12L3, CRC's were all catching air so maybe I was wrong about the whole Rev.3 being harder to set-up over bumps thing!!! 

On the T-plates.... if you re still hitting things pretty hard and pretty often (dont answer that-its nothing personal) then change the t-plate every two races or if you see the corners of the t-plate turning a whiter color. Once you see the fiberglass turn white-the bar is toast. If you cant tweak the car correctly no matter what you do-change the t-plate. If all else is good, but the car wont return to center out of turns-replace. Basically the t-plate has to be good for the car to work, so replace it often. Actually when I ran a 12L3 I would sometimes pull off a good t-plate and keep it as a good spare and put on another one of equal thickness. I would pull the whole t-plate assembly as well. Pivot balls, cups, tweak screws, etc. and build a new one and install it. Its not expensive to do, but can save your butt at a track!!!! Hope that helps!!!


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

MaShaun, is there a place to race 12th scale (or touring cars, etc.) on foam tires and carpet in Columbus this summer?? Some of us Clevelanders want to run on carpet as well as gas racing this summer.


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## MaShaun (Sep 25, 2001)

rayhuang:

As far as I know the only place near here is Zanesville Y-City Hobby. (45 minute drive east) where I go to race and from what I hear it becomes quite low numbers on race day during the summer due to outdoor on-road at Hilliard. So even though theres no 12th scale in Hilliard the 12th scale racing seems to suffer from everyone taking out their touring cars. Personally I'd love to see a large group of people racing 12th scale carpet during the summer. I'd much rather be indoors than roasting in the sun.

MaShaun


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

Maybe-just maybe once or twice this summer we can get enough people from Cleveland and Columbus to gather one or two Sundays this summer at Y-City hobbies. I am sure they would set-us up a road course if we came in numbers!!! I used to race a big bicycle race in Zanesville (A to Z classic). But that was many moons ago!!!!


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## davidl (Jan 7, 2002)

Ray - I was looking at your post about running mod and discussed it with Chief Speedmerchant last night. We think you are doing great. We also think that the REV3 is the best secret out there. It should be incredible in 1/12 mod because of its flexibility, even over bumps. It should only take some work with the center shock and spring to find the best way over the bumps and away you go. The t-bar has limitations and can't be tuned for every condition. Will I see you in Indy this weekend?


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

Thanks!!! I really , really like running 12th mod. Its so much fun. The best part is (though it kills runtime) is when you need to get up to someone quick so your in a position to pass at the right corner-you just give the trigger a little squeeze and BAM-right on there behind!!!! Its the lazy mans method-but its a lot easier than in stock!!! hahahaha!!!! BTW-I love 12th anything actually!!! 

No Indy for me. We just had a baby three weeks ago!!! Time and funds are gone, but well woth it!!!







Good luck to you though!!!


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## MaShaun (Sep 25, 2001)

ray:

As far as I know the track will be open even if no racers show up. Its inside a hobby shop. This would give us a great chance to sync up enough people to pick some weekends to race out there.

MaShaun


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

I was very close to selling my Rev.3 to buy all 100% new late summer, but I may just hold on to it to run at Zanesville once in awhile. What the heck-Mod 12th and a stock 12th car!!! Its only money!!!


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## MaShaun (Sep 25, 2001)

If you want more information about the track their website is http://www.ycityhobby.com

MaShaun


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## birdie_in_texas (Dec 14, 2001)

*help with switchblade..*

i haveno idea what i am getting into..i just bought a switchblade 1/12th scale..what hop-ups do i need..what tires do i buy, what servo do i use..speed control..? oh hell..i am in trouble..i am 1/8th scale buggy racer, now i am in over my head with a little bitty electric car..jesus, now i gotta buy batteries and a charger..

how do you set on of these little things up? i have no carpet tracks here, only a asphalt track..what am i gonna dooo....?

please help me...


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

*servos, etc.*

Good servos

KO PDS-947 FET
Airtronics 94145
Futaba 9604 (???)
All very good servos. 

Hop-ups are not needed on a 12th scale car. If you want to spend big-bucks get a Niftech or IRS axle.

For outdoors-I think you use TRC Grey rear tires and TRC Pink or Magenta fronts. 

Speed controls are: Novak Cyclone or Atom. LRP Quantum Sport or Competition. GM V12 and the little Keyence are also good I hear.

I can get you hooked up on chargers, tires, batteries, etc from myself and friends if you like. Our 12th scale season is over here in Cleveland so we all have tons of stuff!!!! hahaha!!!!

I cant give you a good set-up, but this I can tell you. The little cars need to border on perfection!!! Just make sure nothing binds and the car is not tweaked at all.

I love driving 12th scale!!! 8-miunte heats are cool too!!!!


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## birdie_in_texas (Dec 14, 2001)

*sounds like i am in trouble...*

what kind of stuff u and ur buddies got..? sounds like i need it all!


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

*Lots!!!*

birdie-in-texas,

We have excellent used batteries (the latest number Panasonic SMH packs, tires, I have a Millenium charger, some friends *may* have a used power supply, etc. You name it, we got it. 

Ray

BTW_better inest in a soldering iron!! hahaha!! Oh- the best body to run is the Parma EXP Speed 8.


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## birdie_in_texas (Dec 14, 2001)

*get me some prices....*

what do you want for the millenium...? also for batteries..i just called hobby shop and they run 6-cells for stock and modifird both...is a big track setup for impacts...


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

*hello*

Let me get back to you in the morning. I am hitting up my small circle of racing buddies to see what we can come up with for you. Millenium will be about $85.00-mint condition, etc. Batteries are out of USTC A-main contenders cars. All very high runtime/voltage packs from Promatch-if they are willing to sell them!! i thoink they will. You'll need to match runtimes on the 4-cell packs and build 6-cell packs out of them. Not a pronblem to do at all.


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## birdie_in_texas (Dec 14, 2001)

*Sounds like this is going to be work!! LOL!*

i just made arrangements to get the futaba 9602 servo for the car...where do i get that body you mentioned..?

what about motors..?

i have an "in" on a speedo..was thinking about an atom..but motors and gearing for electric and tweak boards and all that other crap are all new to me...i usually just pull the trigger and start yelling!


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## MaShaun (Sep 25, 2001)

*Re: servos, etc.*

Ray,

How bad damage does the outdoor racing do to your 12th scale?
Hows the uneven pavement handle? Or is it a concrete track?

MaShaun



rayhuang said:


> *Good servos
> 
> KO PDS-947 FET
> Airtronics 94145
> ...


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

*birdie and MaShaun*

Birdie,

I talked with a guy who has some batteries for you. These are top- shelf Promatch 6-cell packs from Sanyo. Sanyo HV 3000 packs with 1.15++ voltage and excellent runtime. Check out www.promatchracing.com to compare!!! You'll see these are better then what he even has listed on his website. Talk to your local LHS as well so that you know what numbers on batteries mean (since you prefer sniffing castor and nitromethanol)!!!!! Also, we put together a Millenium Charger with a TPS Model ps-11 power supply. But, this is not the place to talk prices so Ill e-mail this all to you later privately!!!

_I want to be sure you know we are here to help answer your questions first-then "sell" you stuff later_  

We can help you get a motor tuned, chassis set-ups, etc. right here.

For pavement its all about managing the bumps and getting grip!!! I think running outdoors would be murder on a 12th scale chassis, but jack the ride height up a little and its probably not too hard on the chassis. besides running on pavement you might want to raise ride height to generate more grip.


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

*No tweak board!!!*

Birdie, 

Motors-get a couple trinity P2K2's and a GM3. The GM3 for really fast tracks and the P2K2 for the ones where you need more bottom end and torque. Some E-brushes and green and red motor springs. Actually-the best bet is run whatever the majority at your tack is running and ask them for rollout, brushes and springs!! One thing for sure-6-cell stock 12th scale is gonna be fast!!!!!!

Tweak the car the old fashioned way!!! I'll explain later!!!

Should be able to get the body anywhere!! just order part numberarma 10125 or 10125L for the lite-weight one!!!

cant think of anything else right now!!!


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## birdie_in_texas (Dec 14, 2001)

*cool!*

i found the bodies at Tower...so i will get a couple..i was gonna ask what brand TPS is..? i know what a millenium is of course, and the batteries sound great, but also i know those good quality batts are really expensive...i asked yesterday at the hobby shop, and they run 5 minute heats with a 5-minute main..they say that is about all you can get on that size track with the electric cars..and from what i heard..most guys run the chameleon pro's with good numbers...and almost everyone runs 2400's....does that make sense?

and what is rollout..?

sorry i am dumb... 

and thanks for everything..

you can email me at [email protected]

thanks!:thumbsup:


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

*Rollout*

AAARggghhhh. Wrote a long post then lost it.

Rollout is vitally important. It is a measure of how far your car moves forward in one revolution of the pinion. It is the only way to compare apples to apples with other competitors. For example if the TQ gives you his gear ratio (say 32/100)and you put it on your car and it SUCKS, the two of you probably have very different size rear tires, therefore your rollouts are totally different. This is not a factor in 1/8th buggy as all tires are probably pretty close!!!

*Rollout = (Tire Diameter * 3.145) * (pinion/spur)*

Also, with this equation you can derive the gear you need when you switch from small used tires to bigger new ones!!!!! No Guessing!!!

So you guys run 19turn class-very cool. It should be a very fast car to drive-so lots of fun!!!!!

2400 packs may be the ticket at that track, but battereis are all about Internal resistance and capacity. The newer Sanyo 3000 HV and Panansonic SMH packs have very low IR (Internal Resistance), high voltage and longer runtime. If nothing else, the 3000's should be faster than the 2400's for the last couple of minutes!!!! But battery talk is like talking about religion-everybody has an opinion-including me!!!!!

High voltage-long runtime packs are very expensive. 6-cell packs can be $80 to $95 bucks new. Try and find someone you can trust and buy his when they are only 6-12 months old and you know he takes good care of them.

TPS power supplies are highly regarded in the shortwave radio/electrical equipment arena. Not well known to RC racers, but very good none the less. Maybe even cleaner power than our power supplies since they are used for scientific equipment.

Check out Josh Cyrul's Switchblade in RCCaraction mag this month. Thats a Speed 8 body.


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## birdie_in_texas (Dec 14, 2001)

*i am thinking i am gonna kill this car...*

i have seen the guys run on our track..they turn faster lap times than the guys running 4WD serpents with JP .15's...i suck at driving pretty much anything, so i figure i will be lucky if i finish a single heat...i am gonna go with a good stock motor, and just try to finish the race...i have discovered that a lot of times, the fastest guy won't win, he will simply break first...i actually won races with a TC3 just because i managed to finish all of the heats and then the a-main..not because i drive very good...i was running a 2WD and a 4WD impact for a while..but every time i touched the things, it was $50 bucks in parts and tires, so i got into off-road cause it is really a lot cheaper for me!


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

*No problem*

We'll set your car up to have a nice little push-then put a big bumper on the front of the car!!!! hahaha!!! Dont sell yourself short. A 12th scale car will make you a better driver with any car!!!!


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## birdie_in_texas (Dec 14, 2001)

*HA!*

that's what they told me about a B3..so i got one..it is so freakin twitchy that it just sits on the shelf...a new factory team B3..only been raced on nite, and then just sits there...why? cause i suck!!! i guess i can rob the cyclone out of it for this little 1/12th scale car..i bought the futaba 9602 for it yesterday..so i am getting closer to having the stuff i need...now if i can only get some mad drivin' skillz...


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## birdie_in_texas (Dec 14, 2001)

*i was gonna ask...*

what is a speedmerchant...?what speed controls do you guys use...?


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

*BS and Speedymerchant rev.3*

The speedmerchant is a pretty cool 12th scale car!!! No T-plate!!!
Uses springs in the back instead of the t-plate. 

On your B3, if you take off the Graphite chassis and put on the plastic one-you might find it a LOT easier to drive. Its heavier and more forgiving. Takes the twitch-out!!! 

I use an old Novak Cyclone-only because its what I have. If I had a choice it would be a LRP Quantun Competition or the new Cyclone C2.


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## birdie_in_texas (Dec 14, 2001)

uh....what's a "T" Plate..?

i am done with the B3..i ought to get rid of it...i have not even touched it in a least 6 or 7 months...it has brand new speed gems2 13-triple...the "platinum" i could put that in the sitchblade! ha ha ha talk about a broken car...ha haha


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

*Set-up Sb12 on asphalt.*

Birdie-start here for your car.

"I would start with TRC Pink rears and TRC Purple fronts, thin t-bar, .020 front springs, 25wt with a green center spring."



Short and sweet and right from Josh's mouth!


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## birdie_in_texas (Dec 14, 2001)

awesome...a good starting point! now i just got to manage to figure out how to adjust things, and i should be rocking!


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

*More SB12 set-up*

In a general set-up way- you always want to run the chassis level. Rake one way or the other can drastically alter the balance of the car. Sometimes you might do that on purpose-but since you are starting new-go with equal ride ehight front to rear. Measure as close to the front axle line as possible, under the Dampner tubes and at the very back of the pod. Rememeber if your pod is drooping down, that will lower rear ride height. Just keep that in mind!!!

If you re pretty happy with the car-but maybe want just a tad more steering-put the front of the car lower than the rear. if the car is just a little too nose happy or twitchy-you can sometimes raise the front ride ehight. This mellows the front end. *Rememeber though, to raise or lower ride-height in small amounts in a 12th scale car can be time consuming and expensive* (need to true tires, change ride height pills, raise front suspension up or or lower it down-which alters toe!!!). Better to just learn what size tires keep your car at the preffered ride height and rake and leave it that way!!!!

Thats why you see me selling tires all the time. I know on my Rev.3 what size tires front and rear I like. Once they fall a couple millimeters-I use them for practice or sell them.I guess thats all for now!!!


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## birdie_in_texas (Dec 14, 2001)

sounds like i need some sort of set-up board...will the little cars fit on the hudy? what do you guys use...?


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## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

Nah, a small, cheap cutting board will do just fine. 

For setting tweak, some folks use the "25 cents on a tire" method. Me, I use the MIP tweak station. The newer MIP tweak stations fit 1/12ths a lot better now, too.

For camber I just use the RPM camber gauge. 

For toe, I just eye ball it. I have yet to find a company that makes a _Good_ toe gauge for 1/12th. I've tried a lot of them - niftech, rpm, etc.

-Rich


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

*Try this!!!*

Rich, try setting the car on its nose-perpindicular to the surface plate and measure toe w/ camber guage flat on surace plate. Works great on my chassis anyways.


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## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

I would Ray, but I have a bumper on the front so it wouldn't be level. But, that is definitely a great way of doing it. I do that for the rear toe on my touring car.


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

*Yup.*

Yeah- I didnt realize I could do it till I took off my foam-bumper this weekend. What is your bumper made out of on your 12L??? COuld I make one out of Kydex or rill it just shear off the screws in a crash?? Not that I crash!!! BTW-I havent been to the race shop yet. I'll try soon and get you info on all the Kydex I have their!!!!


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## birdie_in_texas (Dec 14, 2001)

uh....what is kydex..?


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## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

Hi Ray,

Yeah, I want to have the bumper be of kydex and foam. So, I'm going to put the kydex under the foam and butted up against the lower suspension arms. The foam would be on top and extend out a little bit from the front edge of the kydex piece.

No problem -- if you can bring it on Sunday that would be cool. If you can't no biggie!

-Rich


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

*Scoop me up!!!*

Better bumper to scoop up 1/10th Touring car bullys in practice!!!!

Birdie-Kydex is a plastic material that is fairly stiff and easy to bend, drill and cut. It comes in sheets and is available in many different thicknesses from the Hobby store. You can make bumpers, transponder mounts, etc.out of it.


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## Aaron Bomia (Feb 14, 2002)

*Re: Scoop me up!!!*

You sound like a radio announcer reading from a Webster's dictionary. 



rayhuang said:


> *Birdie-Kydex is a plastic material that is fairly stiff and easy to bend, drill and cut. It comes in sheets and is available in many different thicknesses from the Hobby store. You can make bumpers, transponder mounts, etc.out of it. *


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

*hahaha!!!*

"AAAAnnnnndd now- a word from our sponsors...."


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## Aaron Bomia (Feb 14, 2002)

Hey, you're responding too quickly. Get back to work. I'm guessing you and Rich work for the same company. Boooooo.


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## birdie_in_texas (Dec 14, 2001)

this car i got is going to need massive freakin work...it is a very old switchblade..i have called trinity to see if there is anything i can do to make it a updated version car..but it looks like i have spent a lot of money for nothing...i am dissapointed as hell to say the least..and it is my fault..i expected the car in the magazine..instead, i got an old ass plastic car with a lot of missing parts from the look of it...i will post pics at my site after lunch


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## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

birdie - if the car is a rolling chassis and can be run, I would just run it as is. Since you are new to 1/12th, you can get a feel for 1/12th with that car. The front end on the SB requires a lot of work, however -- if you change your camber, it affects your toe and castor on that car. I wouldn't worry about hop-ups for that car. Just learn on it and then when you feel comfortable with driving a 1/12th, then maybe upgrade to a newer SB.

I drive the AE 12L3. It's nice and simple. And, there are parts pretty much everywhere. Plus you can get one for cheap on eBay. 

-Rich


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## birdie_in_texas (Dec 14, 2001)

cool! thanks for the advice...

if you wanna see mine..i just posted the pics of it at my site..here is the address:
http://www.birdiesworld.com/switchblade.html

let me know what i can do or not do, i also need a parts list and a manual..i have no idea in the world what i am doing with this car..

any info from you guys is greatly appreciated!!

birdie


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

*I have a manual*

Believe it or not-I have a manula for a SPashet 12SJ or something like that. It might be the same as this one!!!! Let me go home tonight and see if its the same or close to yours. I owned one of those for about three months!!!


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## birdie_in_texas (Dec 14, 2001)

awesome!! it just looks like there are a bunch of pieces missing...the least of which is the servo mounts..there is an antenns post thing..like a anti-roll over thing, but i cannot figure out how to get the dam thing on...plus the front suspension is boogered...one side moves up and down , the other seems frozen..so i have no idea...i am a pain in the ass huh? LOL!!!


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

*Dissasemble it!!!*

Birdie-Take it all apart!!! Roll the pins and etc. on glass or anoher super smooth surface and make sure nothing is bent. Polish with metal polish-rubbing compound, tooth-paste. Rebuild it and then come back on here on how to set Caster and Camber. Servo mounts are no biggie. Where is the cross brace and damper tubes??? The guy who sold it to you better have told you those were missing!!!!!!


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## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

Birdie - yeah, if that is all the parts you got with the car, then I hope you didn't pay more than $40 for that car..  You are missing some vital pieces - like Ray mentioned. You need the cross brace, the side damper tubes, the cross brace mounts... If you don't have those parts, I'd complain to whoever you bought that car from.

The antenna mount has a ball stud on it -- the center shock connects to that. There is a hole in the chassis where a counter-sunk screw from the bottom of the chassis goes into the plastic antenna mount. The antenna mount should be oriented so that the center shock is centered in the chassis when connected to that ball stud.

For your servo mounts, that isn't as big a deal since most folks mount their servos flat on the chassis the Trinity 1/12th cars. It takes out the bump-steer.

-Rich


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## birdie_in_texas (Dec 14, 2001)

that is all the parts i got....i am screwed huh..and yes, unfortunately, i gave a hell of a lot more than $40 for it..yet another reason i am not thrilled...i will meail the former owner and see if he has the parts..he is a very nice guy..maybe they just did not make it into the box..


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

*Well take him-out!*

Tell us where he lives and well take him out for you!!!! WHats that saying:Caveat emptor I think. SO i guess we cant beat him up for you!!!! I almost bought he same car-only with the revolver front end. All i wanted was the front end (like you saw in my pics)and I could have gotten you all th rest of the parts. It was on e-bay last week!!! I'll check and see if its still available-though I doubt it.


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## birdie_in_texas (Dec 14, 2001)

i do have the antenna mount, and there is a ball-stud on it, but that is all that was in the box..besides three little balls that i think fell outta the diff...i have emailed the guy that sold it to me, but i am sure he will tell me tuff luck...who knows..like i said, he seems like a great guy..i left him good trader feedback and everything...what a moron i am, huh?


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## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

Hi Birdie,

Yeah, if he has those parts (he should. I don't know how he ran the car w/o those parts) then you will have a good car. You have the AE style front end, which is very simple. The revolver front end that Ray is referring to is pretty complicated and hard to set up compared to the AE front end.

-Rich


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

*Birdie-let us help*

Maybe the next chassis you find-send me a link and I'll check it out. Also-I will pass it by Rich as well as he is knows a lot more about more types of cars then me!!!!


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## Bobby Flack (Mar 3, 2002)

Rich is the man. 

Honestly though, If that guy doesn't have those parts I would send it back to him.. Seems like kind of a bad deal for you. Whatever happens though theres someone here that will get you hooked up. My dad runs the trinty car so i'll find out what he runs for a setup.

Later


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## ancientsgamer (Feb 27, 2002)

*Rubber Tires*

Does anyone make rubber tires for 1/12th scale? If so, where can I get them? 

We don't have a carpet track here in San Antonio, Texas but we do have an outdoor track that is asphalt based. The Hobbytown that runs the track runs mostly 1/10th and HPI Micros. I want to run 1/12th but the extra cost of foam tires and buying a truer are not something I want to get into right now. I won a couple of 12th scale cars on Ebay and want to race them in the near future. Any advice would be welcome.

Thanks,

Chris


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

*You gotta make your own!!*

Ancient-You will need to make your own tires by buying Dow Corning Silicone and making your own rubber tires. but if you are running outdoors and its a well established clug, you "should" be runnning foam tires and you should be able to find someone to true your tires. The rears you could run right out of the package and fronts just need a few cuts. MAybe offer a guy a free pair of tires if he'll true you up a bunch of fronts for you!!!


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## RunninFree (Oct 7, 2001)

*Silicone Tires*

Ah, the days of dirt ovals. Hard packed nicely watered rolled to a glass smoothness. Running a Custom Works Intimadator with silicone tires and a modified motor. Perfect, as they say.


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## ancientsgamer (Feb 27, 2002)

*Tires*

Well,

The track is on asphalt and isn't very smooth. Although is is smoother than most streets. I think most run rubber but I haven't seen many pans out there either. I know that some run 1/12 out there but I never seem to be there when they race.

About the silicone, do you coat foams or make molds with the Dow and cast your own? If you cast, are they hollow or solid? If hollow, what else do you do?

Thanks,

Chris


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

*Tires*

Well, the silicone is very thick and seems to self-level. So you put a thin coat on and let it dry. Patience is key!!! Also, make sure you are all set up to do this. You'll need something to hold the tire up that doesnt hit the foam, like a small tube or film canister thta fits inside the rim. Get some good nitricil gloves to wear as youll find your finger works the best to smooth the silicone on the tires. Repeat 4 or 5 times. The results are amazing, but I would bet a 12th scale car with silicone tires on asphalt will traction roll!!! Silicone works great on smooth concrete and other smooth surfaces. But its worth a try!!! Experimenting around is one of the best things about this sport!!!


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

*Tire Truer not needed*

Chris, Although I am not a great driver-I do take my racing and car set-up pretty seriousely and I have run 12th scale rears right out of the package and the fronts with just a little trued off-no problem. So on asphalt, I am pretty sure you could go with a hard -low wear compound like Purple and run them right out of the package!!! just shim up the front arms and reset your toe out. When the tires wear a little, take the shims out and reset toe again!!! No truer needed. The starting set-up for foam tires on asphalt is Purple fronts and Pink rears. E-amil me if you have any questions!!! I have tons of already trued Purple fronts!!!


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## davidl (Jan 7, 2002)

Ray has reminded me of the things we did to race in 1980. Twinn-K was still in business. We used their softest rear foam tire, mounted it on the rim, trued it, and then coated it with silicone. The method was to take a big dab on your finger and apply it to a piece of wax paper laid on a flat surface. Then we took the wheel mounted on an axle and rolled it across the silicone to build up the tread. It provided awsome traction on a dusty concrete surface that was sealed. But the sealer was wearing off contributing to the dust.

I recommend you use Ray's suggestion of purple front and pink rears, and use tire traction like Trinity Tweek 2000. Follow the directions. Another thing you can do is use SPF35 suntane lotion. That is all you need. Put it on about 30 minutes before you run and wipe it as dry as you can about 10 minutes before you run. I have also used white and grey rear compounds doing this with great success. Good luck. I think you will have a lot of fun.

David Lee


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

*Thanks for the advice!!!*

david, I ran silicone tires one time on a sugar water treated smooth concret flat oval with a buddy of mine. Our lap times with our Electric Touring cars (set-up for carpet no less) were faster than all of the Nitro cars-including the 1/8th Deltas and Nitro touring cars!!! We had never run the track before and had a blast!!!!


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

*Congrats!!*

David-also congratulations on being the 2002 Roar On-Road Carpet Nnational Champion!!! I bet that feels good!!! How did that rev. 3 treat you??? I keep telling people to get them, but they all seem to want 12L3's?????


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## RunninFree (Oct 7, 2001)

*Thanks for all your help guys!*

Well our local Winter Racin Season ended tonight.

After all the advice I have gotten from all I placed 2nd in the points. 

Man 12th scale is such fun. Not sure when racing will rezoom. May have to travel for some good 12th scale racing.

Thanks again to all. 

Scott:wave:


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## davidl (Jan 7, 2002)

Ray - Thank you for the kind words. First of all I want to publicly express my appreciation to the guys at Parma, and especially Paul. He painted a new Speed 8 that I used in this race. I usually have a generic blue and white paint scheme, but Paul added a touch that was genious. I have been taking hits from my competitors for my paint jobs and this shut them up. People from all around were commenting about how cool it was. Naturally, it is now retired to the museum.

Now the REV3. I had the best car, bar none. It would roll forever. There were a couple of bumps in bad places on right hand turns and after carefull judgement of what to do, I evidently had the right combination to cover them. The REV3 is one of the few cars that provides the adjustability to do that. There are more side spring combinations available than T-Bars. There are more center spring/shock combinations available than on other cars. The front suspension looks simple, but has more adjustments than you might realise. I agree with you that the REV3 is one of the biggest secrets in carpet on-road racing. Chris Tossilini (sp) put his REV3 in 4th or 5th in modified and only started driving it the Friday morning of the event.


But my REV3 never bound up in the turns. It was incredibly efficient, making up for my lack in motor. I was able to run qualifying times that would have put me in 6th on the grid of the stock A-main. I have run a lot of cars in the past from Corally to 12L and I never moved on my competition until I got the Speedmerchant. Ray, does that cover it?


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## ancientsgamer (Feb 27, 2002)

*Rubber Tires (Tyres)*

Ray,

I found some rubber tires on Ebay. These are older Tamiya 1/12 scale racing tyres (their spelling... ;-) They state "Martini Porsche 935 Turbo Racing Tyre" on them. It doesn't look like they have any kind of foam inserts so they may be more for static display. Does anyone have any info on these?

I will take your advice on the foams. However, the track here in San Antonio is not very smooth. I think most folks have better success with rubber tires down here. I was watching a RC10L run on foams and it seemed to run well but it did bottom out some in a few areas which is why the track isn't so ideal for foams. They do coat it with sugar water but there are some peaks and valleys that make it hard on lower chassis vehicles.

Thanks again!

Chris


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## BadSign (Sep 26, 2001)

David-
I'm the guy in Indy you helped out the night before the USTC race. I noticed then you were running MVP's in stock. Do you cut the brushes "Big Jim Style" for 1/12th, or leave them as is for more RPM? 

Thanks,
Brian


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## davidl (Jan 7, 2002)

Hi Brian. I am trying to remember, but I helped a couple of people that weekend. I had a bad weekend that time so I have been trying to forget it. The weekend I had at the ROAR Nationals has helped a lot.

Now on to the MVP. I have been fiddling with it a lot and have not come to any conclusions. I have run the motor in touring car with the Quasar brush and the cuts Big Jim endorses. It was pretty good, but still a little behind the others that ran GM3. There is another part to the equation here in that I had a belt driven car and the others ran the TC3. Also, my batteries were 2400 of medium performance and the others were using the new UMH3000's. I ran that same motor in my F1 car the other night with killer 2000 cells and it was wicked fast. I am struggling with it in the 4 cell car, 1/12 scale. It has been fast at times, and some of the inconsistency is related to each individual motor. I am moving to a 767 on the positive and a 766 on the negative. I ran that in a Reedy 19t spec motor last weekend and won. It was a 1/10 scale pan type race with 4 cells. The brushes were full width, but it was a differnt design armature and a different can. Next is to work with the springs and the width of the brush. Narrowing the brush definitely cools off the motor. I think that is good. I am trying to juggle 3 variables right now and that is complicated. Those variables are brush width, spring pressure and gear ratio.

Good luck with your efforts.


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## ancientsgamer (Feb 27, 2002)

Haven't seen anyone post here in a while. Does anyone know anything about the old Tamiya 1/12 scale rubber tyres?


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## Guest (Apr 19, 2002)

Ray, I am new to the board, and was reading this thread and you mentioned that you sometimes sell your used tires? I am on the West Coast and 1/12 is as dead out here as I think it could get! I can't even find a new set of tires in any Hobby stores anymore. I used to race organized club racing on asphalt, but that class has long since gone the way of the dodo bird. Can you help me out by selling your old tires? My friends and I run on some semi-rough asphalt, so I would need some meat left on the wheel for ground clearance. I have a SB12 and a broken Revolver 12(anyone have a revolver chassis and lower rear pod brace for sale, I would appreciate it) and my friends run 12L's. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks for your time.
-Thsnowman


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

*YGM*

Thsnowman, I sent you an e-mail. Let me talk with friends and see what we all have!!! We are all running low as I sold almost everything my friends owned a month ago!!!Ray


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## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

Dang, I've got a whole bag of used 1/12th fronts and rears. The fronts are purples and the rears are greys. 

What size do you need? Most of the fronts are at 1.70" and the rears are between 1.67" - 1.77".

-Rich


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2002)

Thanks for the replies Rich and Ray, I need all the help I can get out here. I never have checked the ride height, but 1/8th seems low. As all 1/12 scale parts are very hard to come by, I want to save the chassis as much as possible. Maybe 1/8 RH is good, I just never checked. I found out today that the club I used to race at still run every 2nd and 4th Sundays, so I am so stoked!!!!! Their 1/12 contingent is nowhere to be seen, but with my 2 friends (and maybe my Dad) that makes 4 and the organizer said he would make a class for it as some seem to bring 1/12 up every so often, they probably have 1/12 collecting dust. Like I said previously, I would like to find a revolver chassis and lower rear pod, as well as used T-bars, as new ones are about impossible to find. In addition, if you guys have any older 1400-1700 6 cell packs that have lost their "edge" BC-112C I would like to maybe pick up 4-5 packs. I have an older Tekin that won't support Ni-Mh packs so, I want to stick with the older batteries if possible, as I do have 4 very, very good packs with good #'s. Thanks for the time guys, great to see 1/12 is still pretty strong elsewhere in the country, as it was my only real love of this sport. God Bless.
-Thsnowman


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## CypressMidWest (Apr 30, 2002)

*People posting on a 12thscale thread in April...WOW!*

:devil: Congratulations and Amen to my Teammate David Lee! NATIONAL CHAMP! I guess from your results you weren't in charge of chaperoning(sp?) TJ all weekend LOL. Great Job David. :devil:


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## davidl (Jan 7, 2002)

This sounds like Ian. Well, we had TJ under tow pretty good. And they (Cypress & Speedmerchant) actually pushed a little touch with youth into this old, warn body. TJ actually did me a good favor. Esposito had been trying all week to find out the gear I was using. He even chased me to the hobby shop and picked up the package with a pinion I was buying. Turns out that I never used that pinion. Then he asked TJ and the answer was higher than the one I used. Tom would pull me down the straight about 3 or four cars, but when we got the infield, game over. Great weekend and I lost the bet with Bruce over the TQ. I was able to handle the tequilla double on Saturday night.
Don't forget to lub your tubes (you know what I mean).


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## CypressMidWest (Apr 30, 2002)

*David's amazing powers of perception and deduction*

I figured that you'd be able to reveal my secret identity. TJ's a pretty good guy, and stickin' to Espo on the roll out is pretty funny! I'm glad you guys did so well. I know Indy was a bit trying on the nerves for alot of us. :devil:


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## davidl (Jan 7, 2002)

What are the favorite bodies in use on 1/12 scale on-road cars. I have been using the Speed8 from Parma. Anybody else?


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

*Speed 8 for me!!!*

David, 

Of course if anyone says Trinity SPeed 9  , its actually just a Parma SPeed 8 with a splitter in front of the wing!!! Why mess with perfection!!!

Ray


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## davidl (Jan 7, 2002)

That is the body that came from Andy's, which Trinity purchased?


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

*You got it!!!*

Trinity calls it "his art", I call it his rip-off!!!! But thats just my 0.02!!!


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## CypressMidWest (Apr 30, 2002)

*You ARE CORRECT SIR!!*

ray hit the nail on the head! It's almost identical. It looks as if Andy added a couple of stiffening ribs and called it the Speed9.:devil:


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## davidl (Jan 7, 2002)

Some 1/12 scale onroad cars use the original Associated front suspension that has the king pin slide up and down without any camber gain. The spring is a coil over the king pin type of arrangement. The question is: "Does any other suspension design have superior performance or tuning capabilities over this suspension?" "Which would be better suited for smooth racing surfaces?" "Which would be better suited for rough or bumpy racing surfaces?"


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

*Re-active caster*

David,

I prefer a little reactive caster to be honest. I tested it at Toledos track at the end of the year. That was in Mod though. We were running 9 -turns on a 80x40 track. It was insane speed, but fun. When I put a little re-active in my prototype Rev.3 it made it easier for me to drive. I was able to keep the mid-corner grip I like (I need a lot of steering and grip at apex to exit) and it added a little turn in. I kept caster and camber the same after adding in some re-active so it would be a fair test.

Ray


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## CypressMidWest (Apr 30, 2002)

Ray: If you were running the AE Dynamic front-end, it has quite a bit of camber gain as well. In mod I imagine that reactive is advantageous. After all, you no longer have the natural drag-brake effect of the Stock Motor, and you are flying into the corners quite a bit faster. :devil:


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## davidl (Jan 7, 2002)

CMW - there is a way to tune your stock motor to free wheel in the corners just like the modified.


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## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

Tell tell!


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## davidl (Jan 7, 2002)

I knew that someone would jump on this and it only took you 5, I say, 5 MINUTES to do so. I want to know if you monitor this thing 24/7 to pick up the latest info/trash/etc?

Here goes. The brush overlap influences breaking of these motors. So, if you want the car to roll more after releasing the throttle to neutral, shave the width of the brush. The more you shave from the brush, the more the car will roll. Spring tension has much less impact on this that brush overlap. The tradeoff is that when you reduce the width of the brush, the characteristics of the motor change and you may loose the power band you need.

Some drivers don't care about the overlap. They dial forward throttle into the neutral position of their trigger and use power to the motor to create roll. I don't like this method because it drains the battery and impacts run time or the voltage you have left at the end of the race to go fast.


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## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

Hi David,

Heh, yeah, I monitor this for every tidbit of info I can get.  Ray will confirm that. haha!

Anyways, I'm one of those folks that use throttle trim on the radio to get roll. And, now that I think about it, that could be why I don't have much run-time left in the batteries after my run.

I'll give your brush method a try and see how it goes!

Thanks!
-Rich


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

*Suspension*

Talking about confirming things-Rich *IS* ALL over this Forum!!! But Rich will confirm for me I suck as a driver, BUT I do think all the different style front ends on 12th scale cars are equally good on bumps, etc. I am 90% sure handling bumpy tracks is ~30% in the front spring chosen and the other 70% is in the rear pod set-up. Soften the Rev.3's center shock and lighten oil and the car just rolls over bumps.

Cypress-E-mail me if you want a pic of my proto-Rev.3. It looks pretty cool!!! I'd love to run it next year, but then Bruce wouldnt be able to help me with set-ups at Champs, etc. So I am torn as to what to do!!!  

[email protected]

I used to dial in roll on radio permanently, now I have noticed its kind of a per track layout thing so sometimes I have it, sometimes I dont!!! Usually if I miss every apex, I dial out the roll.


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## davidl (Jan 7, 2002)

Ray - using throttle trim that way is a good approach. By the way, I would like to see the picture of your prototype. 
Email - [email protected]


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## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

Hah. Replied in a minute. 

Hey Ray, is that the car I saw at Toledo with the Trinity front end?

You guys are making me want to get a speed merchant. Too bad I have too much money into the 12L3.


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

*You know you can sell it!!!*

Rich-thats the one!!! It was fun building it as Audrey was only a few weeks old at the time I think. 

rev3 rev3 rev3 rev3.... You want it!!!!


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## RunninFree (Oct 7, 2001)

*Proto*

Ray, how about sending me a pic also.


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## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

*Re: You know you can sell it!!!*

If I got one for free I'd switch. But, I know that won't happen. So, I'm stuck with the 12L3! 

-Rich




rayhuang said:


> *rev3 rev3 rev3 rev3.... You want it!!!! *


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

*FREE???!?!?!*

I'll buy you one if you'll build all my motors at the Champs this year!! hahahaha!!! As we are the Zubak motor guru's there!!! :lol:

Runninfree, I'll send a pic on Monday. All photos are in my work PC!!!


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## bstorey (Dec 12, 2001)

I'd love to see pics of the prototype too.

Blake


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## bstorey (Dec 12, 2001)

*Lots of questions...*

I'm going to make the jump to 1/12th scale for good now. Except for the Helicopter and Micro RS4 of course...

What's a good setup (indoor Ozite) to start with for the Speedmerchant Rev2?

What are some good tuning parts to have in the pit box (springs, oils, etc.)?

Any good links for setting these cars up?

Is there an online manual anywhere?

What parts are needed to upgrade it to the REV3?


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

*Good starting set-up!!!*

Blake,

Start here and tune in or out steering as you see fit!!!
First and very important, make sure side links are set evenly. You do this by feel and by eyeballing it. Make sure gap from rear pod to chassis is even side to side. Now, with all springs and shocks and dampner tubes removed, rotate pod in a side to side rocking motion. Its should feel super smooth with no binding. DO all adjustmenst from one link!!! If it binds at top or bottom of rocking motion ans wont return to center, the link is too short. Lengthen it a touch. If it doesnt bind-up, but is difficult to move through whole range-link is too long. Shorten link.

Now for a base set-up. if track is smooth, then put 0.020 front springs on. Shim out all play-but no pre-load. 2 degrees of caster is pretty much where you want to be on the front arms. Use shims to raise front of arms to get caster. ! degree of Camber is good too.
Build center shock with 80 wt. Associated shock oil and purchase a Wolf Black spring. An Associated Copper will work in a pinch!!! If bumpy track, try a Associted Blue spring with lighter oil in it. Install Orange tweak springs on side and fill Dampner tube with Medium Losi Hydra Fluid. Build and test dampner tubes till they feel the same side to side. 
Use Purple front tires and Grey rears. Set ride height at around 4mm. Also set rear shock's overall length so that the rear pod droops down just a mm or so when holding car in the air. 

Thats should be a good place to start!!!


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## CypressMidWest (Apr 30, 2002)

*Rev. 3 Info*

bstorey: Ray's baseline set-up is a really good place to start. Since you're new to 1/12th I'd probably recommend 4 deg. of caster to start. It'll make the car a tad smoother at low speeds but it'll still have really good high speed steering.

As far as converting a Rev. 2 to a Rev. 3, all you need is the main chassis plate, the battery tray, two very short countersunk 4-40 screws, and low-profile 4-40 nuts. I'm relatively certain a conversion is available from SpeedMerchant. Check out www.TeamSpeedMerchant.com.

If you have anymore questions feel free to post 'em here. I'll help out however I can.

Ian Ruggles
Team SpeedMerchant
:devil:


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## CypressMidWest (Apr 30, 2002)

bstorey: Where are you going to be racing? Ultra in Cinci is racing on Saturdays this Summer, I don't think Y-city in Zanesville is racing inside 'till the fall season starts. Ultra should go back to Sundays this fall. That's where I normally race.


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## bstorey (Dec 12, 2001)

I think I'm going to just get some track time as I can this summer at Cinci or Zanesville. Then this fall, I was going to try to race as much as possible with a wife and 2 year old.

Blake


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

*Me too!!!*

I would love to run at Cinci, but I have so many other toys right now!!! And-this is really pathetic, I only have one ESC right now!!!


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## davidl (Jan 7, 2002)

Ray - I have some GM V-12's. Can we trade for something? I also have some Tekin G-9's with recently updated power FETs.


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

*Call me!!*

David, Thanks-this will be fun to try the GMV12!!! I love my Novaks-I really do. Me and my (buddies) Pit Wizard are never far apart!!! But the darn Cyclones are so HUGE and HEAVY in the 12th scale car!!!!

Thanks,
Ray


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## CypressMidWest (Apr 30, 2002)

bstorey: I too have a wife and an almost two year old. It's not really all that easy, but my wife is pretty understanding.........I get out about twice a month during the regular season.

Y-city is really nice, and Kevin(the owner) is a great guy. Ultra's great too. I live in Springfield so it's a little closer for me to race down at Ultra. Plus that's where Junior Norton, Mike Pulfer, Eli Ezrow, and Chris Doseck race. I've raced with these guys for about 15 years, and they're super fast, and cool to hang with. I'm sure we'll run into each other, one place or the other. If you have any questions just post 'em or e-mail me. :devil:


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## bstorey (Dec 12, 2001)

I'm heading out to Y-City this Saturday for some practice. I should have my Rev2 running by then but if not me and another guy are going to have our micro RS4's ready. Should be a good time. Not ready for racing 1/12th yet but I'll be there soon.

Twice a month might be possible. My wife has gotten much more understanding after I took a race school at Mid-Ohio. I guess she figures RC is cheaper and safer than full scale. 

Blake


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## davidl (Jan 7, 2002)

bstorey - I want to encourage you to keep working with your REV2. I ran in that configuration at my best races last year. It is identical to the REV3 when we have the batteries in the rear position. I think the REV2 is very competitive at almost every carpet track. Now that I look back, I might have done better at the other races if I had not put the batteries forward. The driving feel is dramatically different between the two setups. Good luck and practice as much as you can. It will pay off. Mr. Cypress MidWest needs to do that, too. Hugh, Ian?


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## davidl (Jan 7, 2002)

last message: hugh = huh


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## bstorey (Dec 12, 2001)

Thanks...I plan on working with the Rev2 for a while. Someone told me recently that just about any 1/12th scale car with a good motor, batteries, and tires can be setup to do well on a track. I'm looking forward to racing it.


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## bstorey (Dec 12, 2001)

*Can someone explain ROLLOUT and tire sizes?*

I've been confused by this for some time now. When I get new tires should I have them turned down to a certain size or just use them as they are to get the most life out of them?

Also, can someone explain rollout to me and it's effects/usefullness in setting up the car?

Thanks,
Blake


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

*my 0.02*

Blake,

I ran my rear tires out of package a couple times last year on the Rev.3. It seems to not mind bigger tires, especially for club racing. Just keep a nice radius on the tires edges. Rollout is very important and very easy!!! Rollout is how far your car travels in one revolution of the pinion. It is the onlt true and accurate way to compare your cars gear ratio to another drivers gear ratio. In other words, if you and your arch rival are both identical batteries, motor, car and both running 32/100, but he is much faster, you and he most likely have very different size rear tires!!!

*Rollout = (Tire diameter * 3.145) * (pinion/spur)*

By knowing your rollout (or anyone elses) you can change tire size, spur gear, pinion, etc and always come back to the same rollout run after run!!!


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## bstorey (Dec 12, 2001)

Thanks...so what's a good rollout to start with for stock 4 cell? I'll probably start with the MVP? What's a good stock motor now a days?

Blake


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## davidl (Jan 7, 2002)

Blake - you can stay with the MVP and run in the 42mm range. If you take some of the input from Big Jim about these motors, elsewhere on this bulletin board, and shave the leading and trailing edge of the brush, you can move it up to 44mm. Good luck!:thumbsup:


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## bstorey (Dec 12, 2001)

Woohoo! My used Rev2 is here today. Now I just have to get it cleaned up and reset. What springs should I use for the thing all around? Also, where can I get a copy of the manual for this thing. I e-mailed Speedmerchant but they are taking a while to get back.

Thanks,
Blake


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

*Manual*

Blake,

There is not really a manual for this, per se. Written above should be all you need. The manual just explains how to build the sidelinks.
Go with 0.020 front springs up front, orange tweak and a Wolfe black or Associated Copper spring with 80 wt. oil in shock. DIALED!!! The rest is up to you!!!

One other tip, dont go crazy cutting the tires way down, the car is fine on a little bigger tire (front and rear). Just make sure car is level front to rear. Worry about ride height later. Trust me on that one.

Ray

BTW-I am already ordering tires for next fall!!! How serious is that!!!


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## davidl (Jan 7, 2002)

I am doing the tire thing, too. By the way, JACO is coming out with a double pink front foam for 1/12. It is between pink and purple in hardness.

Blake - I am trying to answer your question about the speedo. My reply gets kicked back. Did you send the correct address?


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## ts (Sep 28, 2001)

Any suggestions on helping with runtime in mod? Motor tuning tricks etc. I've been using my mods from my TC but didn't know if you guys were using lighter springs etc.


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## CypressMidWest (Apr 30, 2002)

*I'm BAAAAAAAAACK...........*

:devil: Okay, reformatted hard drive and some headaches, and I'm up and running again.

davidl: Now that I'm redirecting my efforts as far as set-up is concerned I do need more practice. Things will, hopefully, be much better this season.:devil:


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## davidl (Jan 7, 2002)

CMW - I am hoping to be at Cincy this Sat to practice. If not then, then maybe Mon.


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## CypressMidWest (Apr 30, 2002)

DL: Schedule's really tight on Saturday, but Monday's not out of the question. Let me Know if you'll be there Monday and I'll try to come down and hang out.
:devil:


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## davidl (Jan 7, 2002)

Monday is out. Ultra is closed.


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

*Slip angles*

Do we run too much Dual Rate in RC cars?? Do we mask set-up problems with excessive dual rate?? It is widely accepted that there is an optimum slip angle in race cars. Usually determined by factors like rear engine, front engine, rear or front wheel drive. But on Rc cars its a factor of driver preference and set-up (i.e loose, push). But is there an optimum amount of steering angle to achieve to, and thus realizing the fastest set-up??? I wonder if you were to only have the front wheels on the 12th scale cars only turn 6 to 7 degrees off center if the set-up would:

1). Work at all?

2). Be wildly different than what we run now and...

3). Be faster????

This is my feeble single brain cell working overtime!!!!


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## CypressMidWest (Apr 30, 2002)

Ray: I've often thought about that one myself. I've always been of the mind that the less you turn the front wheels, the less the car scrubs, therefore the more speed you carry through the corner. The problem, as you suggest, is balance with overall set-up. It's hard to determine what the perfect slip angle would be on these little cars. I can tell you from watching the fastest guys out there that they drive with less steering input than we do. I've had the chance to watch Mike Lufaso quite a bit over the years, and it seems that he turns the wheel an incredibly small amount compared to mere mortals. 

Before the season starts this year I intend to try alot of things I've never tried before. One such experiment will be a set-up with tremendous overall grip and as little steering throw as I can get away with. I want to see if increasing overall grip, while reducing the necessary steering travel will allow the car to be driven deeper without killing corner speed. Theoretically it should. I'm thinking that pushing the car harder into the corner, scrubbing less off with the front-end, and being able to get back on the throttle earlier, will enevitably make the car faster, and easier on the batteries.

Just a thought I had after watching Mockerman and Adams cars at Indy in March. Mark's car almost looked as if it accellerated before the Apex, then whipped itself outta the corner like a slingshot. I REALLY WANT MY CAR TO DO THAT!!! :devil:


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

*Yup!!!*

You know-when I was trying out Mod 12th scale at Toledo last winter, I once came up with a super steering set-up for car. I was tooo stupid to know to turn DR way down and Lift real early for the hairpin after long front stright, but as I remember it, the car was super fast when driven right!!! I guess pride kept me from lifting early. When I did not lift early I traction rolled 15'!!!! I ran standard rear set-up, but ran 0.018 front springs and Magenta front tires doped 5/8th.

When I told Desrosiers about it he was amazed car was even drivable set-up like that


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## CypressMidWest (Apr 30, 2002)

That's similar to what I'm gonna try up front, but in Indy I learned something that I'm still struggling to understand about the rear-end set-up. I went to Orange springs and slightly softened the dampening, which gave the car more turn-in. I understand that I increased initial weight transfer with this set-up, but I still don't understand why I got SOOO much more intial snap into the corner. I guess I spent too much time trying to take weight transfer out in an effort to maximize mid-corner speed, I didn't think about letting the car snap the weight back and forth quickly. Now if I'd have just figured that out before the last round, and tuned my front-end to match the new rear-end set-up I'd have done a whole lot better than I did.

We'll see what I learn late this summer. I wanna a car I can drive all the way into the corner and just power out, like Mark Adams' car.


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

*Adams!!*

I put MArks set-up on my car at the Champs last year and that is the only time I was scared to drive an RC car!!! It had so much steering!!! If you can drive his set-up, then for sure you'll be a lot faster, but its so hard to drive it. Its so twitchy and turns in so hard!!!


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## CypressMidWest (Apr 30, 2002)

*Ohhhhhh, YEAH!!!!!!*

:devil: That's how I used to set my stuff up, 'till Pulfer convinced me I was killing corner speed by having the car set-up that way. But that was a LOOOOOOOOOOONG time ago. It was back in the days when we raced on tracks that were difficult to drive, i.e. pre-Touring Car. Does anybody else remember tracks that only had one sweeping turn, one straight, and a whole bunch of tight, intricate corners? I really miss the good old days. Now it seems like every track is a series of straights separated by fast mid-throttle corners and the occasional 180. So super aggressive steering allows you to rip right up to the corner, pivot around it, and peel off.Before TC's I'd never driven on a track that made me want to put a ton of caster in the front-end and just throw the car into every single corner. Now it seems like low speed steering is unnecessary on a 12th scale car, because we never have to slow down all that much.

Here's what I'm gonna start out with next time I test with a stock motor.

Front-end: .20 springs, magenta fronts, 4 degrees of caster, maximum ackerman

Rear-end: Blue side springs, black center shock spring, 80 wt. oil in shock, light hydra fluid in tubes, Grey rear tires, batteries forward

I think it should have good rear bite and boatloads of steering at high speeds. I'll use the amount traction compound applied to gain low-speed steering.

Any thoughts?


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## davidl (Jan 7, 2002)

Sure - put the batteries in the rear and use medium weight fluid in the damper tubes. You don't need a car as fast transitioning as you described.


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## CypressMidWest (Apr 30, 2002)

*Thanks DL.*

Batts in the back and medium fluid in tubes, but everything else sounds okay? :devil:


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## davidl (Jan 7, 2002)

YES


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## davidl (Jan 7, 2002)

I ran all that last weekend at Ultra except I like 2 deg caster. I went down to visit JR. and we played for about 5 packs together. When geared & driven correctly, this setup was excellent. My take on your setup is that you are using 4 deg caster to tone down the agressiveness of the car on corner entry. You can do the same thing by using the medium damper fluid. Batts in the back provide a balance of rear traction and front bite that will not bind up so bad when turning 180's. If there were chicanes that made up the most important part of the track, batts forward would be a consideration. I only had 45% DR in my transmitter. Don't forget to turn that 3.5 to 4 foot circle to balance turning rate for each side. When I went to 50%, the car bound up and was slow.


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

*Ultra*

David,

I will be running at Ultra soon (maybe the 16th)and I may bring my 12th scale and try what you and Ian are talking about. I know its the way to go if I want to be a lot faster!!!

I am wondering on the GMV12, can I run a receiver pack with that??

Ray


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## davidl (Jan 7, 2002)

Ray - I think you can run a x-ceiver pack with it but I never tried it. I recommend that you only use the power switch on the pack to power the system through the x-ceiver if you decide to try it. I don't think you will hurt it by trying, just don't turn on both switches at the same time.

David


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

*Recvr. Pack.*

David, Yeah-receievr pack is for my Mod car only!!! I ran one last year and I honestly think it makes my 94145 servo feel stronger!!! As if it gives it greater holding power. On my new Rev. 3 I am getting I am putting a Futaba 9602 in. I hope it feels alot like my Aitronics, only stronger.


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## CypressMidWest (Apr 30, 2002)

*Thanks DL!*

I'm sorry I couldn't make it down to run with you this past weekend.
I'll move the batts back and try 2 deg. first. What front tires were you running? All of my purple fronts are extremely hard. :devil:


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## davidl (Jan 7, 2002)

What do you mean by "extremely hard"? I ran TRC purple fronts in Cleveland last Nov. They measured 40. I also had some JACO purples at that race. They were 45. I have seen some JACO purples as high as 50 and as low as 35. TRC magenta is softer than the TRC purple, but seems to be a different rubber that hooks up differently than purple. I don't know how to explain it, just it seems different.


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## CypressMidWest (Apr 30, 2002)

davidl: My Jacos are in the high 40's, 46' and 48's.
I guess the Magentas have less natural rubber and more synthetic. I've been told the magentas heat up less than the purples, and therefore are less prone to "glazing". :devil:


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## davidl (Jan 7, 2002)

Does anyone have an idea of a compound that CMW can put on his tires to reduce the hardness?


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

*PARAGON*

David,

I know someone put his 40++ shore Ellegi's in a bag with paragon on them and after a week they were as soft as a 25. Maybe something along those lines?? Or maybe a good dose of WD-40 over night then let air dry for a day?? I guess you'd need a Durometer to do it right though!!!

Ray


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## ohiorcdad (Mar 25, 2002)

Jake and I will be concentrating on Nitro until after the Nat's. We are looking forward to getting the 12th scale out and running on the rug. Hope to see you guys at Ultra in July.


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## CypressMidWest (Apr 30, 2002)

*Tire Basting!!!*

I've been doing a few test tires in a mixture of Tire Tweak 2000 and Paragon. It seems to have softened them up considerably. I'll try and get some durometer readings this weekend while I'm at Joyce Park. I'm just wondering if it'll help all that much. I think it may be more of a rubber compound issue, rather than a shore issue. I have one more thing I'm thinking of trying, and after I get a little data I'll share the results. :devil:


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## davidl (Jan 7, 2002)

Ian, send me a test email to [email protected] It is urgent!


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## CypressMidWest (Apr 30, 2002)

DL: You have mail!:devil:


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## Tres (May 10, 1999)

Looking to get a new 12th scale.....

The ultimate question for 100th time is, which one....
And yes, I've read the thread from start to finish....  

I have looked at:
12L3
Carpet Knife
Rev. 3
Trinity

They all look good, but:
Which one is the easiest to get parts for?
Which one is the most bullet proof?
Which one is the easiest to work on?
Easiest to set-up?
Cost in upkeeep?

The 12L3 is the kinda on top right now, due to parts...

I have a very limited on-road LHS.....

Any help would be great....


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## CypressMidWest (Apr 30, 2002)

*Which 1/12th scale?*

Tres: All current 1/12th cars are very durable. I'd only rule out the Trinity car because of parts availability. Their front-end is more fragile than most, and you can't always get parts for them readily here in region 5. 

I'd go with a Rev. 3, and here's a rundown of why:

The only thing that EVER breaks on the car is the occasional front arm, and those are Associated pieces which are available wherever there's a track.

The car is by far the most adjustable out there. With the speed-tune rear suspension you have complete control over roll-center, spring rate, and dampening. Plus on the Rev. 3 the side to side and fore and aft dampening and spring rates are independently controllable. On the 12l the "hockey pucks" on the pod plates are working in all directions of pod travel, and the T-bar is really the overiding factor in actual roll stiffness, and bump absorption. The Rev. 3 on the other hand, let's you control roll stiffness with the dampener tubes and side springs, while the shock actually handles the fore and aft travel. They can be adjusted independently, without one having any effect on the other. A t-bar car is limited to the two or three t-bars available, and changes to shock oil and dampener lubes don't have nearly as much effect on handling with those cars.

One of the coolest features is that the batt. position is adjustable on the Rev. 3 as well. This is an invaluable aid in tuning the car to specific track conditions. Trinity's car has adj. batt. position now, but the Rev. 3 was first with that feature. Oh, you don't have to tape 'em in either.

As far as maintenence is concerned, they're all pretty much the same, diff rebuilds, center shock rebuilds, and dampener tube / hockey puck rebuilds, along with making sure everything is free and smooth. That goes for any R/C car. I personally feel that T-bar cars are a bit trickier to maintain because of the T-bar. Having run 12l's for a long time, I discovered that you could damage a t-bar and really not know it. Everything was still free and smooth in all directions, but no matter what I'd do the car would still feel tweaked on the track. What would happen is the fibers in t-bar would be overly stressed in one area. They wouldn't be stressed to the point where there were visible signs, but it would still flex more in that area, which made the car feel tweaked. This doesn't happen on the Rev. 3 because everything's controlled by coil springs. 

All in all, I think it's the best package out there. If you have any questions feel free to e-mail me, or post 'em here. If you post 'em here you'll get my input along with input from 2002 ROAR 1/12th Masters National Champion David Lee. We'll try to answer whatever questions you have.

Ian Ruggles
Team SpeedMerchant


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## Tres (May 10, 1999)

CypressMidWest: thanks for the response......


I have almost ruled out the Trinity car due to the parts issue...
Good looking car though....

Top 2 right now, it's kinda be between the Rev.3 and Knife....

Is the front end on the Rev.3 the same as the old AE one?


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## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

Ian,

How often do you replace the side springs on the Rev 3? Also, just out of curiosity, how often do you replace your front springs?

Thanks!
-Rich


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## CypressMidWest (Apr 30, 2002)

tres: Yes, the "Old Skool" front-end comes with the car. We run it for three reasons, first it's nearly impossible to build wrong. They almost always go together easily and operate freely. Secondly, it's way more durable/consistent. A bump of the board can send an AE dynamic strut front-end outta whack relatively easily, or worse yet break the lower arm. The "Old Skool" front-end doesn't change unless you break it. Thirdly, the Rev. 3 can be set up to have a ton of steering without the need for reactive caster. In mod the reactive can be beneficial, as Ray Huang and I have alluded to in our earlier posts, but with the natural drag brake effect stock motors create it's not at all necessary. Oh, I guess there's a fourth reason. The "Old Skool" front end weighs next to nothing! Also, where will you be racing?

rchang: I change side springs when the car becomes more difficult to tweak. If I really have to bear down on one side to get the car flat, I change them. What you can do to reduce the number of times you replace them is rotate them every other race day. That way if you run on a track that has alot of sweepers you equalize the amount of stress on each spring. Just like rotating your tires! I only change front springs when they start to compress, at that point I just pitch 'em and toss in a fresh set. If I remember right, at Ultra, it's about every fourth club race for a set of .20's. On a big track with lots of high speed corners, they won't last quite as long.:devil:


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## Tres (May 10, 1999)

CypressMidWest: We have a small carpet track outside Evansville, IN.....
TC, Oval, SPEC and some truck classes...

I would love to come over and run some on-road in OH.....
I'm about an hour west of Louisville.
I've ran at CRCRC a few times...NATs, Winter Races...

I mainly run off-road...Action Hobbies/Rectors R/C in Albion, IL...


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## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

Thanks, Ian.

Some folks have been prodding me to switch from running the 12L3 and start running the Speedmerchant. So, I'm trying to figure out the maintenance of the Speedmerchant. 

-Rich


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## CypressMidWest (Apr 30, 2002)

Tres: Come on out to Ultra this fall. We'll get ya dialled in. Nothing like racing with a couple Nat. Champs and a former World Champ, every weekend! The track is wicked and Ed's got a really nice shop too.

Rich: make the switch, you won't be disappointed. The car can be adjusted to suit you, rather than you adjusting to suit the car. I already saw Ray's post that he'd get you one if you'll build his motors at the Champs next year. He posted it on Hobbytalk, so it's law!!!! :devil:


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

*SHHHHH!!!!!!*

Ian, Shush!!!!:lol:


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## davidl (Jan 7, 2002)

So Ray is selling his REV3. HE IS OFF The TEAM!


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## bstorey (Dec 12, 2001)

How can I get an answer from Speedmerchant? I've sent in 3 messages now and can't get anything from them? I'm 2 inches from selling this thing and going to CRC.

Blake


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## davidl (Jan 7, 2002)

bstorey - what is your question? If you need parts, maybe I can help.


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

*But, Noooo!!!!!*

Bstorey, I can also help with some parts-what do you need?

David-I am benching my Prototypes and running PURE Rev.3's this season!!!


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## bstorey (Dec 12, 2001)

Here's what I'm looking for:

Dress kit? - What's included in this. I'd like to replace the silver battery hold downs with blue (I know it's sort of stupid but what the hey...I've got extra $$ from painting so many bodies).

I needed the tweak spring carrier but I got that from CRC through my shop.

Really, I just can't stand their site. Compared with CRC it stinks. There's no information on it. If anyone has any contacts over there forward them to me. I'd love to make it a better more informative site.

Blake


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

*Info*

Blake,

The dress kit has your choice of blue or purple battery posts and rear body work standoffs. Maybe the side links as well, but I am checking on that for you. I'll edit message when I get more info.

To be honest, Bruce sells all his parts through www.hobbyetc.com anyways. He also knows that us Rev.3 owners are all out here to answer questions-so I wouldnt get too down on him!!!

BTW-I am running at Ultra on the 22nd I think. If you have a Touring car-bring it down!!! Heck I might even be able to find a Rev. 3 of someone else to run 12th scale if you want to run it with someone else there!!!

I am selling my last Rev.3 right now so I dont have any 12th scale cars to run. I wont be getting my new ones till at least August.

Ray


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## bshields (Sep 27, 2001)

Blake,

The Dress Up Kit comes with the rear body mount stand offs, battery posts, and side links if I remember correctly.


Brian


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## bstorey (Dec 12, 2001)

Thanks for the help all. I might try to make it down to Ultra for that ray. 

I'm not getting down on Bruce at all, I'm just trying to point out that some people like to get a certain level of customer service from a website. Speedmerchant's site doesn't accomplish that to the degree the comptitors do. Might be something to bring up with him. I'd love to help out with it, it would be nice to build something that I actually gave a sh** about.

I've seen the parts on HobbyEtc but there are hardly any descriptions or pictures. I saw the dress kit there but there's no way to select a color or info on what color they are sending. It's just a really bad e-commerce site.

Blake


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

> I'm not getting down on Bruce at all, I'm just trying to point out that some people like to get a certain level of customer service from a website. Speedmerchant's site doesn't accomplish that to the degree the comptitors do. Might be something to bring up with him. I'd love to help out with it, it would be nice to build something that I actually gave a sh** about.


hahaha!!! Blake-are you saying your day to day work routine is... should I say a bit boring!!!! :lol: 
Try Generator sales!!!! 


I think a couple other OH/MI people are goiong to give it a try, so the numbers are growing!!! 

Also-the Rev.3 is very light, so you might want to get the front arm stiffeners and maybe build a little foam bumper. It wont hurt you at all on ROAR min. weight!!! When I ran my Receiver pack-my car was about perfect on weight!!!


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## davidl (Jan 7, 2002)

Do you also need the blue motor pod plates? They are GPM products and can be purchased at HobbyEtc. If you will take some used pod plates, I have some I could sell. Let me know.


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## bshields (Sep 27, 2001)

*Pod Plates*

David,

Are the pod plates lowered?

Thanks,

Brian


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## CypressMidWest (Apr 30, 2002)

*E-mail*

DL: Did you get the e-mail I sent you? I got no response back so I wasn't sure if you recv'd it or not.:devil:


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## davidl (Jan 7, 2002)

The GPM pod plates have identical dimensions to the Associated plates. A #4 ride height adjuster should handle any tire diameter you want to use.

CMW - I got your email and replied with a question. Did you get my question. I will not post it here. I personally consider it as sensitive information.


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## CypressMidWest (Apr 30, 2002)

Davidl: I never recv'd anything back. I don't know, maybe my wife accidentally deleted it. Try my Hotmail account at [email protected]. That way I'll be sure to see it without any chance of deletion. Thanx. :devil:


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## davidl (Jan 7, 2002)

OK, CMW. I tried the new address. YSHM


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## Guest (Jun 21, 2002)

Hey I have a question for the speedmerchant guys:
Where can i get the dampner tubes? I had been running the car for a while when i was informed mine where cut too short. I switched over to the CRC tubes since that was the only thing they had that would fit. They seemed like they worked ok, but I 'm just wondering how much that affects setup? I have been going with white side springs, heavy losi in the tubes, .20 fronts, and 80wt with a black spring on the center shock. Thanks.


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## bshields (Sep 27, 2001)

*Dampner Tubes*

You can purchase the dampner tubes from www.hobbyetc.com. The part number is SMRDT.


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## davidl (Jan 7, 2002)

Sorry I have been off line a couple of days and I see a Speedmerchant question. My first comment is, "how do you know the dampers are too short?" Just because someone tells you that is not indication that the ones you are using are not producing the damping required for your setup. I did look at your setup and want to mention that you are on the stiff side. Is there a reason to run the white side springs and the heavy fluid? This combination makes the car hard to drive on the carpet tracks I am used to. Are you racing on a different surface?


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## davidl (Jan 7, 2002)

Additionally, I you do need new dampers. Standard Bolink dampers used by the oval crowd are the same parts. They cost $8.95 per pair.


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## bstorey (Dec 12, 2001)

Anyone have any pics of the rear end of the Rev3 they can send me? My batteries are coming from World Class Batteries and I'm going to head to either Y-city or Ultra for some practice ASAP!

CypressMidwest - are you the Ian from CORCAR yesterday? 

Thanks,
Blake


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## ts (Sep 28, 2001)

I just got a carpetknife and am looking for a good asphalt setup for the regionals. I'm new to this car. Any help would be appreciated.


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## davidl (Jan 7, 2002)

TS - I suggest you go back through the postings on this thread. There is a lot of REV3 and Carpet Knife stuff here. But just remember that these will only be baseline things for you pavement event. You must be able to tune the car once you get a perspective on the conditions.


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## ts (Sep 28, 2001)

Thanks. I've looked over the posts and got alot of good info. I got the car used and am not sure what side springs to start with.


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## davidl (Jan 7, 2002)

Orange springs are the softest. Start with those. They give more rear traction. If the track is so tight, with chicanes and flip backs that require the car to recover quickly for the next turn, move to blues. I really doubt you will have a need for whites on a paved track.


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## ts (Sep 28, 2001)

Thanks. The track is very big (150'x80')with very wide corners. Any runtime secrets? Last time with my other car I was dumping at the 7:50 mark with a 10dbl. I think setup as trigger finger were my main problems.


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## bstorey (Dec 12, 2001)

I have sitting in front of me a Speedmerchant Rev2 and a Carpet Knife v3.1. Both are in almost the same condition. I don't have a need to keep both. Which should I keep and which should I send to e-bay?

Blake


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## davidl (Jan 7, 2002)

In the REV2 you have everything that is on the REV3 except the ability move the batteries forward. I don't think is a big deal for you and it is something I mentioned a while back.

I ran the car in batteries rear configuration in 2 of the 4 Triple Crown races last year where I participated. I used batteries forward at races where I didn't do as well as I had expected. I used batteries rearward in races where I met or exceeded expectations. The car is very stable and fast with batteries rearward when the track conditions dictate the need for rear traction. Everytime I raced with batteries forward, I ended up in trouble. It takes a lot of practice to get used to driving that configuration because the car is so aggressive. I know many pro level drivers that do not like the aggressiveness of the REV3 with the batteries forward. The two configurations drive so much differently that you wouldn't believe that you have the same brand of car. Based on all of that and the idea that you will be racing 75% of your races at tracks that require rear traction, I suggest that you use the batteries rearward configuration, which is the same as the REV2. 

I can't say anything about the Carpet Knife because I never raced one.
I can endorse the REV2 as a very capable chassis that will be exceptional for all of your racing if tuned properly and driven expertly. Those things will be up to you and not the car, which ever you select. I hope that helps. Good luck and have great finishes.


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## davidl (Jan 7, 2002)

TS - I need to mention some more things about pavement racing. Pay attention to the pavement for bumps and traction. Do they add a traction enhancing compound to the surface? The bumps will require a higher ride height than a smooth surface. High traction pavement will drive your selection for tires. I think purple fronts will be a winner every time. They have great traction and are hard enough to support the loads created by the car when turning. Use pink if the purple doesn't quite have enough traction. Use pink in the rear unless the traction is so high you can move to a harder compound like purple. If they use sugar water or VHT on the surface of the pavement, the purple rear may be the choice.

The next thing is the traction compound you use on your tires. The ROAR pavement nationals will only allow suntane lotion. That stuff (I use Water Babies) does a wonderfull job. You can enhance that a little by using Paragon first, wait 20 minutes, wipe and coat with suntane lotion, then wipe aggressively about 10 minutes before you run. 

Good luck and may you finish great.


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## ts (Sep 28, 2001)

Thanks David! The track is very smooth and they do put down sugar water. I'll let you know how the first race goes.


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## CypressMidWest (Apr 30, 2002)

bstorey: Yeah that was me. If I had paid any attention to who was signed up, I'd have tracked you down. I had the Rev. 3 with me, and we coulda discussed a little 12th scale. I like TC's but c'mon, 12th scale Rules! But,third place after not having raced TC on pavement for 3 or 4 years, not bad eh? Man that track is awesome!!! Plus Bill and Steve put on a great show. If any of you guys are ever in the Columbus area on a Sunday, bring your stuff. It's the best parking lot racing I've ever participated in!

On the Topic of which car to keep: I moved from a CarpetKnife Ver. 3.1 to a Rev. 3, and I was immediately more comfortable with the Rev.3. The Speedmerchant car is super smooth, while still being very aggressive. When I started running the car I ran the batteries forward, and it was similar in feel to my Knife, but it didn't seem to square off the corners as much, and this was reflected in the lap times. Now I'm convinced that the car will be even better at Ultra, and Y-city with the batteries in the rear position like the Rev. 2.

If you make it down to Ultra this Saturday drop by Joyce Park if you can. The sedan Nats A-mains will be Sat. and I'll be announcing. Should be pretty cool and it's only 5 mins. from Ultra. I'll be there Thurs. Fri. and Sat. :devil:


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## bstorey (Dec 12, 2001)

I'll catch up with you some time. I'm going to need some help getting this Rev2 setup and beginning to learn the in's and outs of this car.

I decided to keep the Rev2 but my 3000HV's came in from World Class Batts today and I realized that these cells don't fit in my chassis. What do I need to get to get these in there?

I did real well on the first two heats of the micro class (I was running the flag theme Porsche). Third heat my pinion came off. For the main I changed tires during the break to foams. After the second lap, my tires just started falling apart. When I got it off the track, the rear tires were almost completely gone. So much for those prototype tires that guy sent me.

Blake
www.2brainsdesign.com


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## davidl (Jan 7, 2002)

Blake - Take a small flat file that fits in the battery slots and file the length of the slot to fit the cells. We have all done this.

Next, put orange side springs on the car and Losi Medium weight fluid in the damper tubes. Put 80 weight oil in the center shock and install the stiff black spring. Set the center shock length so the rear pod has no more than 1/2 degree of drop. Set you front suspension with 2 degrees castor and -2 degrees camber, and install .020 Associated springs. Next use TRC grey rear tires and TRC purple front tires. Install the rest of the stuff and your ready to go.

I ran this at Ultra during the Memorial Day weekend and it was very good. I had batteries in the back of my REV3 so if you do this to your REV2, it will be the same as mine. There isn't anything special on the track that will require blue side springs, but you can try them if you want after the traction comes up. Don't change anything else when you move to those springs.

Good luck,
David Lee


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## bstorey (Dec 12, 2001)

Thanks for the info. After I posted the message I thought that would be a good first step. Should I file the front or rear edge though? It will only be a minor change but I should probably go in the right direction.

Which black spring are you guys talking about? I can't see one on the Wolfe site and I have the Associated black spring and it's REALLY soft.

Thanks,
Blake


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## Guest (Jun 26, 2002)

davidl: that was the setup i ran at Cleveland this last year. I want to start practicing soon for carpet and that is where i left off.

Brian Jucha was the one that told me the dampners where too short. He was running for Bruce for a while so i figured he knew what he was saying.

Thanks for your time


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

*Battery slots*

Blake,

You should slowly take material off of both the front and back of the battery slots in equal amounts. If you want batteries to *drop a little lower* be wary-Sanyos are bigger than Panasonics-so if you make the Sanyos fit-guess what?? The Pani's will below the bottom edge of the chassis!! If by some chance you take off too much material, you can slowly build it back up with layers of CA (super glue). Just be patient when filing your chassis. Its a part of the whole 12th scale thing!!! Chassis prep 101-12th scale style:thumbsup:


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## bstorey (Dec 12, 2001)

I saw an article on the team crc site that was really nice about how to finish a chassis the right way.

http://www.teamcrc.com/team_crc_raceway/chassis.htm

Anyone know where I can get emery paper? Looks like fabric instead of paper though.


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## RunninFree (Oct 7, 2001)

*Speedmerchant Rev3*

I am thinking of retiring the 12L3 and I am thinking of buying a Rev3. 

If I buy the kit what extra parts should I order also?
Tweak springs, how long do they last? Which color springs are used the most?

I will be racing on both carpet and asphalt.


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## davidl (Jan 7, 2002)

You will need Blue, White, and Orange side springs, then several pairs of .020 Associated front springs, then a red, copper, and black center spring. All of these springs should cover your tuning needs. Also, have 60 - 80 weight shock oil. You will need several differing ride height adjusting bearing carriers for the rear. It is also cool to have some .022 front springs. Good luck.


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## RunninFree (Oct 7, 2001)

*Rev3*

Thanks David.


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## bstorey (Dec 12, 2001)

Are you talking about an Associated Black spring or what? I've got an associated black spring and it is really soft. Is this the right one?


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## ts (Sep 28, 2001)

I raced my carpetknife of asphalt for the first time this weekend. It did pretty good but I would like more turn in. I was running orange side springs and a silver center spring.


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## davidl (Jan 7, 2002)

Blake - No, there is another black spring. It is very stiff and is available from Speedmerchant, Wolf, & CRC. It is slightly stiffer than the stiff, copper spring from Associated. Track performance between this black and the Associated copper is almost the same, but the black one provides a more aggressive feel to the front of the car. Did the pod plates make it?

TSD - I am not sure which silver center spring you are refering to. Do not change the side springs unless the course has a lot of back and forth motion. Go to blue if you need the car to recover quickly for the next turn. Keep everything else the same. If the course is one slow 180 after another with time in between, go to a stiffer center spring. You should probably be at red or stiffer. Good luck!


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## bstorey (Dec 12, 2001)

The pod plates got here just fine...they look sweet. Thanks.

I've got everything together finally. Batteries just got here from world class batteries the other day.


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## RunninFree (Oct 7, 2001)

*Parts*

Where is the best place to buy Speedmerchant Rev3 parts.


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## bstorey (Dec 12, 2001)

I just got a bunch of stuff from Hobby Etc. I can't stand that e-commerce site but it's the only place I know of. If they at least had descriptions or pictures that would help. It's hard to know what you're buying is what you want.

Here's the link:
www.hobbyetc.com

Blake
www.2brainsdesign.com


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## ts (Sep 28, 2001)

davidl - Thanks for the info. The silver spring I was referring to is the associated one. It's a little softer that the gold one. I'm guessing it was a little too soft?


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## RunninFree (Oct 7, 2001)

*TS*

TS

What kind of rollout are you running at Hazel Green?

I am planning on coming to the regionals there in August. I am going to try and make it down before then and was hoping to get a little set-up help before I get there.

Thanks for any help.

Scott


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## ts (Sep 28, 2001)

Runnin - I don't have my tire size handy but I had a 96/27 on a 11dbl. Runtime was really close though. I'm not real easy on the trigger though but I'm working on it. I think I ran 22 laps.


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## ts (Sep 28, 2001)

I was also running BSR purple fronts and pink rears.


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## RunninFree (Oct 7, 2001)

*Rev3*

TS: Thanks for your help.

See you in Hazel Green in August or maybe before.

I am now an offical Rev3 car owner. I can't wait to run it. I am looking for a copy of the manual. I am hoping someone can make me copy of it.

How do you check to make sure the side links are correct?
How do you use the dampner tubes? Pull then apart and smear grease on them?

Scott


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## ts (Sep 28, 2001)

I'm a new carpetknife owner and do not have a manual either. I would like to find a copy. I think lot's of guys use the Losi Hydra fluid on the damper tubes.


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## Tres (May 10, 1999)

TS: contact [email protected] he will be able to help.


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## ts (Sep 28, 2001)

Tres - Thanks. Do you race in Albion? I used to race there alot before I moved here. How's Tim?


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## Tres (May 10, 1999)

TS: Yes, almost ever weekend...

Tim is doing good.


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## Kraig (Sep 12, 1998)

One way to make sure the links are working properly is to remove the shocks and dampner tubes. Then move the rear pod around. It should be smooth and free with no kinks in the movement. If there is then one of them might be giving you problems.


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## RunninFree (Oct 7, 2001)

*Rear Pod*

I have noticed on the Rev3 that the rear pod is alot more adjustible than the 12L3. Is there any advantage or under what situation would you run the pod level, down towards the chassis or upwards?


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

*rear Pod*

Scott, as a general rule, you should always set overall shock length so that that the rear pod is able to droop down a little bit below main chassis. Set that by screwing in or out the ball cups. You should set shock length with collar so that chassis sits level with rear pod. A good test is to set-up car in race ready trim. Now try and pick-up car from the shock. The chassis should come-up a little before the wheels come off the ground. If not, you "might" have a very twitchy handling car. Now, if the chassis bends like a tent, you have set overall shock length too long and car "might" feel really lazy or chassis might bottom out in middle, causing erratic handling.


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## ts (Sep 28, 2001)

Runnin - I stiffened up the side and center springs this weekend and the car was much faster. I ran blue side and red center. Hope this helps out.
Anybody got any advise on runtime improvement? I'm cutting it really close.


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## bstorey (Dec 12, 2001)

TS - What batteries/motor (model and brush/spring combo) are you using? That might help us to help you better.

General things that works with all cars:
- Buy 3000's
- Make sure your gear mesh is set properly
- Take the pinion down a tooth or two


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## ts (Sep 28, 2001)

bstorey - I've got good HV3000's. I've been running a D3.5 11dbl and a D4 10dbl. Full 4383 brushes (I think) with green springs. I've geared down but it didn't have a drastic improvement. What kind of timing are you guys running? I've been around 20 degrees.


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## bstorey (Dec 12, 2001)

Out of my league...I'm nothing but a stock guy myself...Try asking Big Jim in the Motor Forum. He should be able to get you setup just right.

Blake


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## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

You mention that you are just 'barely' making it with run-time. If your car is still pretty strong come the 8 minute mark and hasn't fallen off much, then you are fine. You aren't going to end up with 100 seconds of run-time - especially with mod motors. 

If you are finding the car to be pretty much dumped at the 7:30 mark, then here is some info. This is my own opinion, so if others feel I am off the mark, feel free to correct.

When running 1/12th scale (especially mod) the biggest factor for run time is how much corner speed the car carries. Also, your throttle finger affects run-time. And, corner speed and throttle go hand in hand. If to get the car to carry corner speed you have to stay on the throttle, then you are going to burn up more battery than someone who can let off earlier yet still carry good corner speed.

One of the ways I measure how well my car is working is checking tire wear (especially for the rears). You can typically check this by seeing how much foam dust is in the rear wheel well of the body (the more "scientific" method is to use a pair of calipers to measure the change in tire diameter). If after one run there is a lot of tire dust in there (and other folks don't have as much tire dust in there), then my feeling is that the car is scrubbing a lot of speed because the car has to work harder, which is causing faster than needed tire wear. (But, this is also affected by how much track traction is available. If the track doesn't have much traction, then the tires are potentially going to spin more and wear faster).

In regards to throttle finger, if you find you are using the brake a lot to slow down the car for turns, then that is also going to use up a lot of battery. It takes power to slow down the electric motor, and you also have to accelerate harder out of the corner, which also uses more battery (back to the whole corner speed thing). For me, the only time I use brake is in passing situations when I'm trying to out-brake someone entering the corner.

Hope that helps.

-Rich


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## ts (Sep 28, 2001)

Rich - Thanks. A lot of my problem is throttle finger. I'm just getting used to 12th mod after touring cars. the car seems to roll through the corners ok but I may get on the throttle too early without really needing to. I think I try to hard the first 5 min. I'll give that a try the next couple of weeks before the regionals. They're are fast down the 150ft straight!


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## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

Yeah - another thing is the start of qualifying. The biggest amp draw occurs during the first part of the race (like the first 30 seconds). If your track does IFMAR starts, don't mash the throttle out of the gate (if you do that) - just roll on to the throttle.

Some of the folks I race with go as far as to jam one of their fingers in between the trigger and the radio so that they don't go full throttle for the first 30 seconds or so.


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## Aaron Bomia (Feb 14, 2002)

Oh, that's ridiculous. No one has that small of fingers. 



rchang said:


> *Some of the folks I race with go as far as to jam one of their fingers in between the trigger and the radio so that they don't go full throttle for the first 30 seconds or so. *


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## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

Keith does.


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## ts (Sep 28, 2001)

Thanks - I'll try a little more throttle control this weekend.


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## bstorey (Dec 12, 2001)

*Starting Rollout?*

What would be a good starting rollout for a Rev2 with an MVP, Sanyo 3000HV's. I'm going out to Y-City Hobbies in Zanesville Friday evening to get my FIRST 1/12th scale experience. I figure it's best to drive without racing first...

Blake


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## bshields (Sep 27, 2001)

*1/12th mod motor timing*

I asked some of the pros about 1/12th motor timing and they all seemed to be in the 10-12 degree range. If you needed more speed, go to a lower turn arm.

I am not a mod guy and a have pretty heavy trigger finger and had no problems making time with 357 sec 3000 HV's. I also had plenty of power to use. You can always try a hotter wind than needed and not use full throttle.


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## davidl (Jan 7, 2002)

bstorey - use a 40 to 42mm rollout with that MVP. I also suggest narrowing the brushes if the motor is too hot to touch as it comes off the track.


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## ts (Sep 28, 2001)

Thanks for all the info. I've never had trouble with runtime except on this track. It's 150x80 it's pretty big with the front straight of 150ft.


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## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

WOW - that *is* a big track to run 1/12th on. We have a nitro track near that size and we are winding out the 1/10th nitro TCs on the straight.


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## ts (Sep 28, 2001)

The nitro's on that straignt are fast! The TC's with 8 turns are too. My fastest laptimes in 12th scale are mid 19 seconds. The sraight runs alonge side the main road. It's cool to see the little cars passing the big cars. Take a look at the track http://www.hobbyracing.com/NorthAlabamaRaceway/
The Region 3's are in 3 weeks.


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## bstorey (Dec 12, 2001)

*Tire Size and Ride Height*

When racing do you want to keep all 4 tires at the same diameter?

I see you set the rear ride height with the adjusters...how do you set the front ride height on a Rev 2?

Thanks,
Blake


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

*Awesome!!*

ts-your home track rocks!!! I love it!!! Looks nice and smooth too!!!

Blake, YOu adjust Front ride height by picking a diameter that you want to run that gives you the ride height you are after. You could use shims under the front arms, but then yuou would forver be changing the toe in/toe out, camber and caster (however slightly).

Now-having said that, you also would want to start the tires a little bit bigger so that you can -for example- start ride height at 5.2mm and when the tires are worn, you are still at 4.8mm. 

In the back you can start with tires new out of package and say use a #1 pill upside down. After they have worn a bit-you can move to the #4 pill upside down!!! And you can also buy the IRS lowered pod plates and get another weekend out of every pair of tires!!

I dont try to keep tire diameters equal front to rear. Luckily the Rev.2 nd 3 are not Super critical to ride height like the 12L3 is. In fact-I have sold almost all of my used front tires to owners of 12L3's because they need to get there ride heights lower. That and the Reactive caster front ends can use smaller tires than the old style arms allow.

Again, I hope I helped more than confused!!


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## ts (Sep 28, 2001)

It's an awsome track. It's extremely smooth. We hope to have a big crowd for the Regionals in 3 weeks. We've been having around 70+ entries on regular race days!


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## davidl (Jan 7, 2002)

The paved on-road nats are in Denver next weekend. I heard last night that 1/12 scale modified has been cancelled due to lack of interest. What's up with that?


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## bstorey (Dec 12, 2001)

I thought I'd heard that 1/12th scale was making a comeback?


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

*Traction compound???*

A buddy just said he thinks that all traction compounds have been banned for this race, so who would want to send there factory team to a foam tire-no traction compound allowed event?? 

Heck, if we get one heat, lets go!! Then we all make the A-main and we are all qualified for the Worlds!!! WHooo HOooo!! BTW-who gets the next on-road worlds?


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## bstorey (Dec 12, 2001)

Some guys around here were using sunscreen when they couldn't use traction compound...worked ok I guess.

Ray - I think you've got an idea there...That would make a great story...My first 1/12th scale race and I qualify for the worlds? HA!

Blake
www.2brainsdesign.com


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## davidl (Jan 7, 2002)

My source made it sound like both Trinity and AE discussed with ROAR that they weren't going to participate in that class, and this is the result.


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## bstorey (Dec 12, 2001)

*This is GREAT!!!*

I ran about 6 packs through my Rev2 tonight at Y-City hobbies in Zanesville. Thanks to everyone for helping me get the car setup. The setup was great!

I might need a bit more rear end traction. I think I have losi heavy hydradrive fluid in the side dampers. Am I supposed to be using medium? If so, would that give me more rear traction?

Also, without any shims, what is the caster & camber set on the Rev2's old skool front end?

One other thing, the tires after 6 packs showed no wear whatsoever, no tire dust anywhere and they are exactly the same size as when I started. Traction was great so I'm not complaining...just curious.

Thanks again!
Blake


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## bshields (Sep 27, 2001)

*Y City Hobby*

bstorey,

Can you give me any info on the track? Such as, when they race, what classes they race, and track times (practice also)? I'm going to be in Columbus for three weeks and thinking about stopping in.

I sent an email to the address on the web site but have yet to receive a response.

Thanks,

Brian


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## bstorey (Dec 12, 2001)

Right now they aren't racing at all. As for practice, whenever they are open, you can practice. Let me know when you're going to be there and I'll use it as an excuse to head up there too. When they do race they typically have 1/12th scale, various oval classes, and touring cars.

If you are into touring cars you could race at CORCAR (www.corcar.com). That's the local parking lot racing. Great outfit there...about 70+ entrants per weekend.

Blake
www.2brainsdesing.com


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## davidl (Jan 7, 2002)

bstorey - yes, move to medium or light losi damper fluid. The heavy weight fluid is taking away a little rear traction. The "old skool" front suspension is 0 deg caster and -2 deg camber. The camber is good, but you may need more caster. I have had my best runs with either 1 or 2 deg caster.


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## ts (Sep 28, 2001)

Thanks to all the help here I've picked up a lap and easily made runtime yesterday in practice for the Regionals.
Would changing to the 0 degree from the 10 degree reactive blocks help and on a large track?


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## davidl (Jan 7, 2002)

The reactive caster issue has been discussed for years and will continue. Actually, you should find out which is best for you on a particular day on a particular track. Also, the "Old Skool" front suspension is not like the Dynamic Strut suspension with no reactive caster. The Dynamic Strut does have camber gain that gives you another option. The "Old Skool" suspension does not have camber gain. But don't forget that practice is the most important thing. The rest of this just makes you practice at a different level.


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## ts (Sep 28, 2001)

Thanks. I'm running out of practice time but I might get a chance to try out the 0 degree block. The car's much better now.


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

*Reactive or not*

ts This is going to be hard to put into words, but if your on the fence about re-active or not-think about it this way!!! Are you in a position where you need a more turn in-but do not want to sacrifice the mid-turn grip you have. IN another word-if you are happy with how planted your 12th scale is and you know that reducing caster (spindle standing up straighter) will help car turn in, but makes car wash out at the apex. re-active caster may be for you!!!


In the opposite way of thinking-lets say you are already runing re-active caster why would you want to get rid of it? I personaly can think of three reasons.

1. Car feels inconsistent

a. could be from binding arms on complex Re-active set-up.
b. Could be from turning in at different speeds due to driving.

2. Car turns in too hard and then feels too planted or too slow at apex.

3. You want more turn in.

I hope that helps make the decision!!!
Ray


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## Aaron Bomia (Feb 14, 2002)

*Re: Reactive or not*

Oh, it helps alright. No 1/12th scale for me anymore. You've confused me even more than Rich.



rayhuang said:


> *I hope that helps make the decision!!!
> Ray *


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## Impactplayr (Sep 26, 2001)

Hey guys, I just bought a CRC 6-Pack last weekend, spent more time building than any car I have ever built, and love it!! I knew I had to spend the extra time and make the suspension supper smooth, so I did. I knwo this will make for a much better racing platform.

Fortunately the Trinity carpet race is held at the track I will be racing on, so I got a good starting set-up from the Calandra site.

I did stop by the track and practice for a battery pack, and found 2 things.... (1) I need traction compound.... hehehe I forgot it.....
(2) I touring cars have spoiled me.... I can't just yank the throttle, or steering wheel like on my mission.....

How do I properly set tweak using the side springs and tweak screws on the CRC suspension? I don't know how much tension should be on the springs, and don't want a car that looks tweak free on my speedmind guage, and then have a funny handling car on-track.


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

*tweak*

Impactplayer.

Given the time, you should set tweak in several differnt ways. You hit it on the head that setting tweak in the pits can be very different than on the track. But, always start with the old quarter trick on top of the tires!! First start by getting a set of tires that are trued evenly side to side. Also find the center of chassis and mark it on front and rear of car. Next make sure you are tweaking car for the battery you are going to be racing. Changing batteries throws off tweak on a 12th scale. And last, make sure nothing is biding or bent on car, wheels spin freely, etc. No reason to start chasing your tail with a stupid problem!!! Next set car on smooth surface and tap car a few times on center shock. Place a quarter on the top-trailing edge of each front tire, making sure that quarters are as even as you can eyeball them. Place a X-acto blade under the center of the front of the chassis and slowly lift up the car. The goal of course is to have both quarters (qrtr) fall off at the same time. Now lets say the *left* qrtr falls off first. Turn clockwise the *right* rear tweak spring!!! Just like on a TC!!!

The reasoning behind this way of setting tweak is that while accelerating out of a corner, the front lightens and starts to unload. If the car unloads on one front tire more than the other, you will have to make steering adjustments all the way dwon the straight, which is a 12th scale no-no!!!



Ray


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

*On the track....*

Now that tweak is set in the pits, hit the track and while driving, notice if car pulls one-way or another!! At this point, either make an adjustment and go back out, or go to your radio settings!!! You might have too much EPA one way than another!!! DO some circles to determine that you have equal steering gright to left!!!

ALso, the Tweak boards are a fine and quick way to set tweak as well, especially for checking the rear of the car, but no where near as accurate as the qrtr trick.

*Last thing for now-and very important-is if no matter what you do, the tweak wont stabilize, something is bound up, bent, wrong, etc in car for sure!!!* It may take awhile to find it, but its there!!!

Ray


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## Impactplayr (Sep 26, 2001)

I was primarely asking about how much tension should be on the side springs at rest, I know if you get to the point where both springs are being compressed then the car will handle funny, and show signs of tweak, but how much tension should there be??


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

*Side springs!!!*

Sorry-about that!!!

You should have very little pre-load on springs (at least on a Rev.3). Unfortunately its a feel thing. SOmetimes when I get lost on pre-load I just back them both off and start from the beginning.


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## Aaron Bomia (Feb 14, 2002)

I like your dissertation Ray...yet another reason I'll avoid the 1/12th cars...:lol:


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## nitrorod (Oct 23, 2001)

I think Aaron will like 1/12th scale alot more when there is a foot of snow on the ground.


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## bstorey (Dec 12, 2001)

I just spoke with a guy at Windtunnel Racing, one of the RCV board sponsors...he said that he could make a Rev3 chassis and associated parts for the following prices:

Main Chassis - $24.95
Bottom Plate - $8.95
Top Plate - $7.95

I've bought his parts before and they are awesome quality. Now I just need to get hold of a new chassis and bottom plate to get over to him so he can program it. Anyone have one of these?

Blake


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## bstorey (Dec 12, 2001)

Also, I'm brand new to 1/12th scale and I think it is by far, the best class I've ever run in. The cars are simple, durable and easy to setup. They run on 4 cells so the battery costs don't kill you. Just my .02.

Blake
www.2brainsdesign.com


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## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

Why would you want to send a chassis that someone put their time and money into developing (Speedmerchant) to some 3rd party just so they can copy it and sell it cheaper?

Buy the stuff from Speedmerchant and support the manufacturer.

I can understand buying from someone else if they do something different (ie: much thicker chassis that the manufacturer doens't offer; different layout, etc). But, you are asking for an exact copy. 

Most stuff in the r/c world is not copyrighted. It doesn't mean we should abuse that.


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## bstorey (Dec 12, 2001)

Good thought...is there anyway I can buy direct from Speedmerchant then? I HATE working with Hobby Etc. Their site sucks, descriptions are worse than tower and their customer service is one of the worst. Not to mention that I've sent 3 different e-mails to Speedmerchant asking for information and had 0 returned to me.

I'm all for supporting the manufacturer, let them support the community as well though. If anyone from Speedmerchant is listening out there give me a shout, I'd like to hear from you.

Blake


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## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

Yeah, good point about getting replies. Companies definitely need to support the racers quickly.

You are in a bit of a delimna since Hobby Etc. is owned by the same guy (Bruce Carbone) who runs Speedmerchant. 

Were you having problems ordering stuff through the Hobby Etc. web site?

main chassis part # is: SMR1419
top plate: SMR1262
bottom plate: SMR1253


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## bstorey (Dec 12, 2001)

Two problems:

1. As I mentioned very few descriptions on either site for product information.
2. A while ago I had a problem with a mini-z ball diff and called them about it, they said they would send a replacement and after 2 repeat calls never sent it. I ended up selling the car so I don't need it any longer. It just left me with a bad taste in my mouth about Hobby Etc.

It looks like I'll have to go with them anyways...thanks for the part numbers.

Blake


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## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

Shoot.. that sucks and is unfortunate. Hopefully you have better luck with the rev.3 parts order.


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## Xpressman (Dec 6, 2001)

Impactplayr-

If I remember correctly some of the team CRC guys that run the 6-pack did not use side springs. Check out the CRC forums and you will find a better answer.

As for tweak you want to back the springs off and adjust the tweak through the t-bar first. After that is set you want to screw down the springs until they barely touch the balls on the plate. you don;t want them to compress but you do want them to touch. After you do this recheck your tweak. This time if the tweak is off you want to back out the side springs to bring it into tweak. I hope this helps.


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## CypressMidWest (Apr 30, 2002)

Xpressman is exactly right. Set it flat with the T-bar, then set the springs so they just rest on the balls at static ride height. If you've tweaked the car flat with the T-bar, the springs should be set so that as soon as the pod shifts in one direction, the spring on the opposite side lifts off the ball. If they each lift off for the same amount of pod travel the car will be on tweak. 

Aaron: 12th scale sounds complicated, but like any other form of racing, once you learn the routine, you're all set. I personally really prefer 12th scale because the 12th scale cars are normally way quicker than TC's, yet they have about 500 less parts to worry about, and 100 less screws to tighten after every run. Just my .02!

bstorey: I'll try and get a hold of Bruce for you. With it being the off season he tries to get all of his other business in line, as well as get in some "recreation" during the summer. What parts do you need? :devil: 

Ian Ruggles
Team Speedmerchant


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## Impactplayr (Sep 26, 2001)

On the 6 pack when you use the side springs you don't use the tweak screws on the t plate, thanks for the replies, I followed the "set the springs so they just touch theballs at ride height" and it works well, now to get to the track for practice this weekend.


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

*To Screw or to Spring!!!*

Some very fast people use both the tweak screws and side springs and some use one or the other. Its a preference thing!!! SOme even use that as a tuning option during a race day.


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## Mike K (Jan 2, 2002)

Hey hey hey CypressMidWest what's going on? You getting geared up for another big 12th scale season at Ultra? Sounds like it  Believe it or not, I may be jumping back into the 12th scale game come winter. Things will slow down for flying and the wife and I are a little more used to having the little one around. (Only a few more weeks.....)

With that being said, I'll probably be running a majority of my free weekends down at Y-City due to the fact it's so close to home. Tell Pulfer I said hello and I'll probably be going Six Pack this time


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## CypressMidWest (Apr 30, 2002)

*The King Lives!!!!!!*

What's up Mike? Glad to hear everything's going well out your way. And
yes, I'm gettin' ready for another rewarding year of having Pulfer crush me every weekend. We'll probably come out to Y-city a few times..... after it cools off outside. (Just can't beat that air conditioning at Ultra!) I'll let Mikey know you said Hi, but a T-bar car? I just can't endorse that!!! :devil:


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## bstorey (Dec 12, 2001)

Mike K,
Do you know if they have decided which day they will be racing this season? I'm also going to try to race 1/12th scale this fall at Y-City.

Later,
Blake
www.2brainsdesign.com
- Custom Airbrushed Bodies


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## bstorey (Dec 12, 2001)

CypressMidWest, 
How far is Ultra from Columbus compared to Y-City?


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

*New kit*

Cypress, David and all,

I am building my new Rev.3 kit in a few weeks!!! I cannot wait-sanding, filing battery slots, the burn of CA in the eyes and nose-YUMMM!!! 


But I am wondering how you guys set the caster and camber?? I use different thickness shims under the caster shims and front arms-eyeballing the adjustments using a RPM camber guage. What are some other methods that are more maybe easier?

Thanks,
Ray


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## Impactplayr (Sep 26, 2001)

I love my car!!! Took it out to practice last weekend, and it felt awesome. The only thing I don't like is strapping the cells in, but this weekend I am getting some Dan's saddle pack battery straps. hopefully they will adjust down for 2 cells, but if not I am sure I can modify them to work. I was suprised how easy 1/12th scale cars are to drive, and drive fast. I maybe could tune the chassis to make it better, but I was told my lap times are right on compared to some of the fast guys, so I will concentrate on learning to drive fast rather than tuning right now. I do know I need to work on consitancy.

I did notice a slight torque steer when accelerating from a dead stop, but otherwise anywhere else on the track I can grab a fist full of throttle with no worry!!! I noticed that with a 1/12th you can throttle deeper into the turns and yank the throttle alot sooner coming out. I also cannot say enough about being able to steer the car anywhere I want and not worry about pushing into a wall...... 

Man if I had only owned a 1/12th sooner I probably wouldn't even own a sedan!!!! but I love my Mission and Losi too much!!:dude: 

Hopefully I can get a Pro 10 class, or even DD touring class running this winter!!! God I can't wait for the cold, the regionals and thr 2003 Trinity race!!!!!!


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## Mike K (Jan 2, 2002)

Sorry Blake, but I'm not sure when Y-City will race this coming season. If past seasons are any indication, they will race on Sunday afternoons.

As for the drive time between Ultra and Y-City, it depends on where you live in Columbus. I live in Pataskala which is only about a 1/2 hour drive from Y-City. To get down to Ultra it's about two hours give or take 15 minutes. Ultra has a premium facility there's no mistaking that, it's just that with a new baby I'm looking for places to race nearby. That leaves CRCRC or Y-City.

ImpactPlayer- You think 12th scale is good now? Wait till you get a full heat of them and you are racing in close quarters for 8 minutes. AWESOME!!!


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

*Practice time!!!*

Mike,

if you find a car to run soon, a buddy and I want to rent Y-city a few times to get some practice on carpet and do some more testing with both 12th scales, but also our XXXS'!!!! As you know, I am now both a Pro-Match battery dealer and a Putnum Propulsion dealer, so I have a lot of motors, batteries and springs and brushes to test from now till the Cleveland Champs!!! 

Ray


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## Mike K (Jan 2, 2002)

Ray - Why rent? Come down anytime on a Saturday and you will have the whole day to practice for around $10. Or do you need the track to yourself? I would suggest waiting until it cools off a bit though because Y-City is not air conditioned.


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## bstorey (Dec 12, 2001)

Ray,
I actually went over to Y-City a few weeks ago on a friday evening. I showed up there at 5pm then ran till 9pm when he closed for only $3. Great track and a nice setup.

Also, as a dealer for putnam propulsion can you get me some prices for brushes and springs for the MVP? I'll need some for 1/12th scale and some for Touring

Thanks,
Blake


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## bstorey (Dec 12, 2001)

Mike,
I hear that about the baby...My daughter turns two next week. Finding time to race has been REALLY difficult. Anytime you want to head out to Y-City some evening like 5-9 let me know. I'll probably be able to meet you out there.

Blake


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

*Brushes, etc!!*

Blake,

I'll talk to Todd and see what he recommends on his Excessive Force MVP motors for 12th and TC. Last I heard the best brush for the MVP's were low silver, narrowed brushes with medium heavy springs (red) on pos and neg. When I get some more info I'll e-mail you.
I know a couple guys who are running them as well. At a recent race I had my infrared temp gun with me and a P2K2 came off the track at 120 degrees and the MVP (both cars equally fast) came off at 185 degrees. Man-they run hot!!!
Ray


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## bstorey (Dec 12, 2001)

I hear that...If you don't ice them down they are unbearable. If you do ice them look out!


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## Mike K (Jan 2, 2002)

Blake - I probably won't be able to hit Y-City until sometime in September at the earliest. It's still flying season and with my son due the first or second week of September I won't have many free evenings. Plus I still need to buy a car


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## nitrorod (Oct 23, 2001)

You guys race on carpet all summer?


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## Fred Knapp (Oct 7, 2001)

J-rod, wrong page.


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## nitrorod (Oct 23, 2001)

No fred that was a legitimate question.


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## CypressMidWest (Apr 30, 2002)

*We race on Carpet all SUMMER!!!!*

There are suitable racing surfaces besides carpet..... I think not!!!!

bstorey: I'm not sure exactly how long it would take to get down there from Westerville. Ultra's on the North side of Town, technically Hamilton, so I'm not all that sure what your best route would be either. I know Mikey King lives way out in the boonies (LOL)!! I'm thinking you're probably looking at about an hour and a halfish. I live in Springfield so I just go 70 west to 675 s to, 75 and then jump on whatever the heck it is that takes me over to rt. 4 from there. I can't remember it for the life of me! It only takes me around an 60-70 mins. to get there.

rayhuang: You don't need to do any testing, just build the car, strap in some volts and go!!!!! As far as setting up the front-end you pretty much nailed the only way to do it! It's a bit time consuming, but once it's right it won't change unless you break it!!! 

Mike K: I don't know what you guys are talking about!(dripping with sarcasm) I mean I've got a 23 month old, and I've probably raced almost 10 whole racedays since he was born!!!! :devil:


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## Impactplayr (Sep 26, 2001)

Anyone know of any sites that have good videos of 1/12th racing??? I may end up getting the worlds video tommorrow, I can't get to the track til next Saturday and I really need my fix!!!!! Besides I like to look at different drivers with different driving styles so I can see how they do it and maybe learn a little in the process.....


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## davidl (Jan 7, 2002)

Ray - I suggest you not listen to CMW and continue putting the tender loving care into your new ride. It will be great and you will thank yourself for doing so in the long run. The next thing is to do 3 very important things. Practice, practice, and practice. CMW would finish higher if he ran more than 10 times in the last 3 years.

In case you don't know what I am saying here, the message is really for CMW.


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## bstorey (Dec 12, 2001)

DavidL,
I've raced even less than CMW, maybe 3 times in the last 5 years. Do I regret that at all, not even a little bit. I will always put my wife, daughter and family ahead of racing.

It's a hobby...a great one but is nothing compared to the love of a little girl for her daddy.

Blake
www.2brainsdesign.com


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## CypressMidWest (Apr 30, 2002)

*Just where is the Love?????*

davidl: Wow, that almost stung a bit. I think Ray will do just fine. He's very meticulous about car prep and I'm relatively certain he totally disregarded my previous post. You are correct though, with a bit more practice I could be the next JOEL!!!!!!!(LMAO!!!) 

bstorey said it best. All the racing in the world can't compare to my wife and my amazing son. Now if his hands were just a little bigger he'd be able to get a much better grip on that Mars!!!!! :devil:


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## bstorey (Dec 12, 2001)

CMW,
Do what I did...get them a Tomy BitCharg. Got to start them early!

Blake


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

*MARS???*

Thats the whole problem, it's not the baby ( I love my baby girl sooo much too!!!), its not the car prep, its not the practice, its the Radio!!! JR R1 baby-its the only way to fly!!!!:lol: 

Ian-check out my comments on Tech Talk please. I wont be offended at all no matter what your response is!!! It is in regards to the Champs and Master's 12th scale.


Also-I try to be meticulous, Thanks!!! But too often I miss something critical.


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## ohiorcdad (Mar 25, 2002)

CMW,
Your young protige is starting his fifth year. He really started improving when we hung up the Mars and got his M8 LOL. He wouldn't run a Losi radio or Losi Blue Thunder for that matter. He is gonna run the World's in Sept. Ya gotta come watch.


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## davidl (Jan 7, 2002)

Ray - polish all of the moving parts.


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

*reolish*

David, I am a polishing fiend!!! You should have seen my Vector up-close!!! I polished every single thing on it!!! It glowed!!! Untill the first lap of practice-of course!!! 

I have also seen some really nice front spindles on some of the new 1/10th Oval chassis I am thinking of buying. They look a lot stronger then the "old Style" spindles we use. I wonder if they would be stiffer and therefore be more consistent handling then the current ones we use? I am not saying the spindles we use are junk-I just wonder if these would be better???


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## CypressMidWest (Apr 30, 2002)

bstorey: I get it.... tiny driver requires tiny car!!!

ohiorcdad: I don't think that dumping the Mars had anything to do with it. I think his mechanic has just had to work a whole lot less since he began the Pulfer and Ian school of Jedi driving tricks LOL. Ohhh, and about the Worlds.... watch? I hope to be cheering Baby Reedy on from the announcing booth!

Ray: would these posts be regarding the 10 turn limit on the Cleveland thread on TTT. If so I've already dropped a few lines. If they're responses to my responses I'll of course have further responses. Did everybody catch that?:devil:


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

*CMW*

Ian,

You spin a web of confusion!!! 

You see-I now sell Putnam Excessive Force motors and I need to start ordering them for two drivers. If the USTC goes 10 turn and the Champs follows suit, then I know I just need to order 10 x 2 and 10 singles in only a few different configurations. If they go "open" I have to start ordering 8, 9, 10 turns in every imaginable wind and wire guage, layered, etc., etc.!!! *Yikes-$$$$$$$* Its maddening for someone like me who knows NADA about Mod motors!!! 

So I WAS a fan of Pro class running whatever they wanted, but now I am thinking maybe 10 turns aint too shabby!!!


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## CypressMidWest (Apr 30, 2002)

Ray: Ahhhhhhh, I see that your fiscal responsibility has clouded your judgment about the intricacies of the Modified class. Very Interesting. I say you just order 7 singles and tell your drivers it's their responsibility to make time. I feel a 7 single is equally well suited for 12th scale and touring car. I mean really, you only have to use all that rip if you really want to! (lol!!!) :devil:


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## ohiorcdad (Mar 25, 2002)

Ray,
Have you used the X20 body from Parma. How does it make the car feel. We are thinking about trying one.

Dean


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

*X20*

dean,

hey, have you gotten enough Nitro in your blood this summer??? 

The X20 has more steering, but it feels starngely planted in the rear at the same time. Alot like what all the pros said about the Speed 8. I guess the boys at Parma did there homework on this body too!!! Some Pros, national and world champs have run them, they all say the same things. more steering, but planted, not twitchy or loose. Most have also said they just wish they could run them (sponsor obligations).

Hope that helps!!!
Ray


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## Guest (Aug 9, 2002)

*RC12L3 replacement parts*

Hi,

I just bought my RC12L3 used. It's very new and everything work fine except the diff ring which I replaced with HPI parts. I'm very new to 12th scale so please forgive me if I ask some stupid question  

I'm thinking about ordering some spare parts in the near future. What parts that usually break or need to replace periodically? I'm not living in the USA so I'm trying to find the place that has everything that I want to save the shipping cost.

Tower has most of the parts for RC12L3 and other items that I want but they doen't have the kingpin. Is it easy to break the kingpins in RC12L3?

I'm going to power it with 23T stock motor/4 cells. What is the roll-out that I should start with?

More questions comming soon 

thanks,
tifosi


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## rowle1jt (Sep 25, 2001)

What is a good 12th scale road course body? I will be needing one this winter, I'm just wondering what is good. 
Thanks
Jake


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## Impactplayr (Sep 26, 2001)

Tifosi- You will want the lower arms, the caster pieces that attach to them, the hingepin, which also comes with spare caster washers, t-plates, springs (front and rear), e-clips, pivot balls for the front suspension, and yes I would get a set of the king pins. 

Rowle- parma x20- almost any speed 8- Trinity speed 9- Protoform/Associated Nissan P35 Gtp (for you oldschool boyz...LOL)


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## ohiorcdad (Mar 25, 2002)

Ray,

Enough Nitro already. But where else can you get a chance to run at the World Championship and sleep in your own bed. We had to do it. We are starting our carpet program to get ready for USTC Oktoberfast. I hope this is Jake's breakout year. Time will tell.
See you at the races.


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## CypressMidWest (Apr 30, 2002)

Dean: Jake should be able to finish third at all the Triple Crown races this year. Just have him follow me, cause I'll be following Pulfer!!! So that's Pulfer, Ian, Jake 1,2 and 3 LOL!! If only it were that easy!!!:devil:


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## ohiorcdad (Mar 25, 2002)

Ian,
Someone once stopped a famous performer on the street and asked "How do you get to Carnegie Hall?". The answer was "Practice, practice, practice". That's where we will be. See you there.


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## davidl (Jan 7, 2002)

See Ian. I am not the only one talking about the importance of practice. By the way, you guys are not going to be 1,2,3 this year. Hell, you won't be in the same classes.


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## CypressMidWest (Apr 30, 2002)

The only thing as important as practice, is money. Some of us have to choose our battles wisely. I'll be trying to balance my resources with practice. Unfortunately, practice won't save you if you've worn out everything you have. With my limited funds, I have to be a little more careful about the # of cycles I put on my packs, not to mention the expense of tires, brushes, etc. etc. I will run as much as family and financial concerns allow. There are a few things that will be very different this year, that I feel may help me progress....... We'll see. :devil:


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## Impactplayr (Sep 26, 2001)

I have noticed alot of guys are using the old style associated front end on their cars, Why is this?? Is there a distinct preformance advantage? If it is to remove the reactive caster why not just mount the 0 deg. mounts? Or is it basically being lazy, with not having less to set-up on the front end?


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## CypressMidWest (Apr 30, 2002)

*Old Skool front end*

There are several reasons I run the Old Skool front-end.

1. consistency: The Old front-end only changes if you break it. The Dynamic strut has some slop as well as a tendency to "move" if you hit things. Caster, and camber can change on that front end in collisions. 

2. WEIGHT: The Old Skool front-end weighs a TON less than the dynamic strut front end.

3. Handling preference: I personally feel the car is smoother with the old front-end. Since it has no camber gain, or reactive caster, i think it makes the car more predictable. I always felt that when I backed off with the Dynamic front-end, the handling changed. The cars steering response became much less aggressive, and I didn't like having to adjust to that. The Old Skool front-end always handles the same. 

There you have it. Those are the reasons I've run that front-end. I toyed with the idea of trying one of the reactive style front-ends this season, but I always keep coming back to the good old block front-end.:devil:


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## ohiorcdad (Mar 25, 2002)

Ian, 
I have a bunch of decent battery packs we stopped running midway through last season (you know why) that you can use anytime. I also have enough Carpet Knife parts to make a good Rev 3 LOL. I understand about the money thing (5 kids myself) but will be glad to help you out some. I also have some tires you can use for practice. The only thing I can't help you with is driving. My contract won't allow it. My boss is a tyrant.


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

*Old Style*

Impactplayer.

I would say that the old style arms just suit the handling of the Rev.3. Also, the Rev.3 makes most of its tuning with the side springs and dampner tubes. Also with the center shock via it's overall length and spring choice. Basically you set the front end and forget it. Thats not as much lazy as it is smart. The newer style arms are tempermental and very prone to binding and tweaking of the car after contact on the race track, or adjustments made in the pits.

Ray


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## CypressMidWest (Apr 30, 2002)

ohiorcdad: I know your boss, and he does rule with an Iron Fist!!
I really appreciate. When will you guys be resuming your carpet racing efforts? I'd like to get down and test one of the remaining Sat. this month. LMK and I'll see if we can do that.

ray: YGM.


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## ohiorcdad (Mar 25, 2002)

Ian,
Nitro next weekend. Check the TSRCAR schedule. If no nitro we will be running electric. See you there. Bring Pulf with.


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## CypressMidWest (Apr 30, 2002)

Dean, 
I'll see when our schedules are open and come take my whuppin' from The Master of R/C. :devil:


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

*Mark Adams Rev.3*

So how do we all drive like Mark Adams??? I put his set-up on my car at the Champs last year and decided I dont have the cajones to drive a car with that much steering. But maybe this year-if I start with that set-up and "drive-it", maybe I can be a lot faster than last year!! I literraly need to pick up two or three laps at the Champs!! Thats pretty sad!!!


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## CypressMidWest (Apr 30, 2002)

*Like Mark....... If I could drive like Mark!!*

Ray that's my idea. Dial in the mad steering and teach myself to drive it! Pulfer and I are going against everything we once beleived about car set-up after our rude awakening last season. In the famous words of Jedi Master Yoda "You must unlearn what you have learned":devil:


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## davidl (Jan 7, 2002)

So, are we going to try to get the Minnesota group to delay their Triple Crown race a couple of weeks?


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

*Batteries*

Well, a month ago all was right with the world. I was convinced the UMH's are the way to go, but now we got the new kid on the block. If anyone gets a chance to strap a 3300 pack in there 12th scale, please let me know how it does!!! I am ordering a bunch already from pro-Match, but I dont have anywhere to run them for a month or so!!!


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## davepull (Aug 6, 2002)

*roll out*

i got the rollout egation of the crc site its 

pinion x tire dia x 3.14 / spur = rollout 

28 x 1.800 x 3.14 = 158.256 / 98 = 1.614


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## Guest (Aug 22, 2002)

Will the Futaba 9450 digital servo fit into a RC12L3 without any modifications?


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## ohiorcdad (Mar 25, 2002)

Hey Ray,
Looks like you have a new teammate. Jake is really excited to be running the Speed 8 and X-20 bodies. With the Jaco double pinks and the way the Speed 8 plants the car we can't wait to get the Nitro out of our blood and start getting the cobwebs out. Ultra goes to Sundays 1st weekend in Sept and the fun begins.

Dean


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

*Parma Rules!!!*



> Jake is really excited to be running the Speed 8 and X-20 bodies.



Parma has now designed three killer bodies and two have won National Championships already. The 235mm Proton and the EXP Speed 8. The X20 will be on a lot of touring cars come this years Champs I am thinking and hoping!!!

Great choice!!!
Ray

p.s. Just two more Nitro races for me. Got the NTC3 absolutley dialed last time out!!! But I too am jonesing for some carpet now!!!!


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## davidl (Jan 7, 2002)

Dean - What is the latest on the trip to Minnesota? You and anyone going? I have a regional championship scheduled that weekend so I can't make it. Wish they would have left it at the end of Oct.


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## ohiorcdad (Mar 25, 2002)

David,
Jake and I are going. AE has not decided yet. Follows the World's pretty close. It's gonna be tough on us. Looks like a pretty good turnout from the Ultra gang. Rob Love, Doseck, Hinshaw, Pulfer, Ian, Woody and a couple others. 

We like the track but as usual Greg Amendola has his head you know where. If he doesn't single handedly kill this great series I'll be surprised.

Hope to see you there.


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## davidl (Jan 7, 2002)

I thought Greg was out of the picture. If he is still involved, I think you are right. It is going to be tough on somebody. By the way, I still don't have the award I earned last year.


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## CypressMidWest (Apr 30, 2002)

guys: Let's not jump on Greg A too hard. I have been assured by the track owner that Greg had nothing to do with the race or the date. Greg is merely a USTC official. From what I read on TTT, Greg can't even be @ Oktoberfast because of the date. If we're gonna piss and moan, I feel we should direct it at the track itself. Greg does do quite a bit of work for the USTC each year, and I personally appreciate it.:devil: 

I'm also pretty sure at this point I'm not gonna make it. It would take a minor miracle for me to get there due to issues beyond my control. It's not 100% outta the picture, but it's doubtful.


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## davidl (Jan 7, 2002)

Well, I don't, Ian. This is the 3rd year in a row that the awards are over due.


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## CypressMidWest (Apr 30, 2002)

The trophy delay is unacceptable, but what I was referring to was the lack of insight displayed in scheduling Oktoberfast right on top of the Fuel Sedan Worlds. Greg had nothing to do with scheduling.

My real question is, What other big On-Road races did Oktoberfast have to be scheduled around? The only big On-Road event I know of being scheduled anywhere near the middle of October is THE WORLDS!!:devil:


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## davidl (Jan 7, 2002)

Ian, there is more to it than "BIG" on road races. I am a regional director in ROAR, as you know, and I must be at the regional events we schedule in my region. We scheduled a regional for nitro 1/8 & 1/10 open cars in Edison NJ that same weekend. We did that 6 months ago. It has been on the website for several months, so it isn't like we have kept it a secret. It is obvious they don't consider other racing. Walter Henderson already mentioned the Worlds race as soon as they announced their date. There was a lot of complaining in your area, the guys that race out of Ultra. I guess 4 or 5 of you are going to suck it up and go anyway, but I don't think you will be ready. There will be mental burnout from the Worlds. But that won't affect you (hahaha). Why don't you guys get Bud Bartos to sponsor you at Ultra with "Bud's Halloween Classic" (bring back the old days), get that on the Triple Crown Schedule, and then we can race at a decent time at the end of Oct?

Ian, there was one time that I was involved in the Triple Crown. I single handedly obtained the awards and kept the points for the 97/98 season. The next thing I know, those guys that are now doing it came charging in and made it real tough on me. I was just getting started with ROAR, so I let this go and handled my region. This is my way of giving something back to the drivers and racing overall. But I had been there with scheduling and the like. They wouldn't listen to me then and there were problems. Now it continues just as before. All I can say is my region has almost doubled in membership since I took that on (366 to 680) and we have gone from 5 region champions to over 20 per year. Can they show growth like that? (that question is rhetorical) I just shake my head, because it doesn't have to be that way.


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## CypressMidWest (Apr 30, 2002)

davidl: I agree that the scheduling is unfortunate, but the race was awarded to the TCHR facility and that was the date they set. To be perfectly honest, the only Ultra racer who might be affected by Oktoberfast being so close to the Worlds is Jacob. No one else going to Oktoberfast from Ultra will be running the Worlds. Most of us don't even have cars eligible for the Worlds classes. 

I'm not going to get into ROAR bashing, as I appreciate what you do for the hobby and value your friendship. But the simple fact of the matter is that the USTC is a carpet roadcourse series, which in my opinion should remain completely separate from ROAR. The USTC crowd is predominately a 12th scale and electric touring foam-tire crowd, and they are the crowd that the schedule should be based around. In all honesty one could argue that your regional is scheduled too close to the Worlds as well.

I appreciate your dedication to ROAR, and wish that anybody else in the organization was as concerned about the hobby as you are, which is tragically not the case.

I agree that Oktoberfast's turnout will probably be fairly low, and that is unfortunate. But the debate at this point is moot, the host facility has made their decision, and the USTC would be unwise to pull their sanctioning of the event at this point.

The only thing I can recommend is that all the dates for the 2003-2004 season be set in stone by 1/1 of 2003 and then award the races to tracks that can accomodate that schedule. Of course at that point we're at the mercy of the other sanctioning bodies not to schedule a race too close to one of ours. I think the chances of zero conflict are virtually nil. :devil:


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## davidl (Jan 7, 2002)

Please don't use my function with ROAR as supporting reasoning to disagree. ROAR is one of the reasons you get to race the way you do and I really feel strongly that point is not recognized at the level it deserves. Additionally, the World's event is not the same classes that we are running at our regional so there is no conflict as you implied.

You said something that I agree with regarding the schedule being firm and distributed by the first of each year. The problem is that there are still too many people who want power over the universe. Our universe is RC racing and we have that problem as well. Funny in that it always turns into a people problem and the ones that manage people the best will be the ones that have the most success. I have already described success, so I won't go into that again. By the way, I am done with this. I don't need to have the last word.


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## bstorey (Dec 12, 2001)

Anyone know when Ultra in Cincinatti and Y-City in Zanesville start racing and on what days?

Thanks,
Blake
www.2brainsdesign.com


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## ohiorcdad (Mar 25, 2002)

Ultra starts racing Sunday's on Sept 8. Doors open at 9 racing starts at noon


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## CypressMidWest (Apr 30, 2002)

Blake: SUNDAY, SUNDAY, SUNDAY!!!!!!!! Dean laid out the Ultra schedule perfectly, as far as I know, Mike Pulfer, Junior Norton, Eli Ezrow, Woody, Jake Delano, Rob Love, Favian Vega, Chris Doseck, and myself will be there just to name a few. ARE YOU IN?????


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## bstorey (Dec 12, 2001)

I'm trying like H3LL to get there! I am absolutely DYING to race! It has been TOO LONG!


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## CypressMidWest (Apr 30, 2002)

Kick, scream , and claw your way free if you have to. It's gonna be a great day of racing. :devil:


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## CypressMidWest (Apr 30, 2002)

Hey, where's everybody at? The thread is unusually dead.


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## davidl (Jan 7, 2002)

CMW - you have wore us out. We are too tired to play on the computer.


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## bstorey (Dec 12, 2001)

WOOHOO! I will be at ULTRA this weekend! Right now I'm sure I'll race 1/12th scale stock. Maybe I'll run the Micro too . I'll also try to have a few extra painted 1/12th bodies on hand if anyone wants/needs one painted 

CMW - I hope you don't mind I'm probably going to pick your brain a bit when you get a chance. I'll have the black and purple lightning strike Rev2.

Thanks all and see you there!
Blake
www.2brainsdesign.com


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## John Warner (Jan 25, 2000)

Just wanted to mention that our members and racers are doing their part to resurrect 1/12 scale racing this upcoming indoor season. We've even gone to the extent of making 1/12 scale racing mandatory (just kidding of course) But I think you get the picture. It's all about having fun!!

Come join us in Grand Rapids this
winter season if you get the chance!

John
"Great Lakes Racers Club"


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## CypressMidWest (Apr 30, 2002)

dl: What, you Masters guys don't have any staying power anymore?

bstorey: Cool, I'm glad to hear you're gonna be there. I'll be happy to help in any way I can. Just feel free to come over and ask any questions you need answered. Mike Pulfer is an absolute wealth of knowledge as well, even if he does run that "other" link car. I think Robbie Love will be running his new Rev. 3 too, so we should have plenty of people to test things. It should be a pretty productive day! :devil: 

John Warner: Hopefully we'll get the chance to make a trek up that way this season. You guys are a great group to race with, except for Jeff Brown of course. (j/k Jeff!)


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## Fred Knapp (Oct 7, 2001)

John Warner said:


> *Just wanted to mention that our members and racers are doing their part to resurrect 1/12 scale racing this upcoming indoor season. We've even gone to the extent of making 1/12 scale racing mandatory *


This mandatory stuff is getting a little pricey.


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## John Warner (Jan 25, 2000)

knapster said:


> *
> This mandatory stuff is getting a little pricey. *


Oh, don't worry fred. I know you know we're only kidding. Besides.. you already have a 1/12 scale car. So, save you change.


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## John Warner (Jan 25, 2000)

John Warner said:


> *Just wanted to mention that our members and racers are doing their part to resurrect 1/12 scale racing this upcoming indoor season. We've even gone to the extent of making 1/12 scale racing mandatory .
> 
> (just kidding of course) But I think you get the picture. It's all about having fun!!*
> 
> ...


It would seem you left out part of my orginal post.


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## bstorey (Dec 12, 2001)

CypressMidWest,
Thanks Ian for all you help the other day at Ultra. I didn't see you around when I left or I would have thanked you in person. I really appreciate all the help everyone gave me there, really a great bunch of guys!

Unfortunately for now my racing is over, wife is going to law school so money and time are going to be even tighter than ever! If you'd like a great deal on an awesome Rev2 see the swap and sell section.

Thanks everyone and I'll see you in about 4 years!
Blake


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## CypressMidWest (Apr 30, 2002)

bstorey: Blake, you're welcome. I'm just glad I could help. Sorry to hear that you won't be racing for awhile. At least it's for a good reason.


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## RunninFree (Oct 7, 2001)

*Bearing Replacement*

How oftain do you have too replace the flanged bearing that goes in the diff? It seems that I go through one about every other weekend of racing. I clean it but it stills fills grity. So I replace.

Could I be over tighting the diff?


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## davepull (Aug 6, 2002)

what diff are you running? the stock assoc or the irs?


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## RunninFree (Oct 7, 2001)

*Diff*

Associated.


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## davepull (Aug 6, 2002)

the associated diff hub only uses one bearing so that one bearing carries all the load. you don't have to hit much to blow that bearing. I would take the hub off and see if a flanged bearing fits in the other side. if it does run one there. if it doesn't get the irs complete axel set with hubs. it allows you to run a bearing there and in the spur gear. why the hole axel? well you know what a pain it is to get the left hub spaced right so the axel rotates free. with the irs assembly the left hub is clamping. plus the diff ring are the d type which makes for longer life of the diff rings being that they are locked. 
If you don't have one then get the rpm bearing blaster. it works great. it gets all the dirt out of bearings. i was changing out bearings too till i got this thing and found out that I wasn't cleaning them out good enough.


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

*Diff bearing*



> How oftain do you have too replace the flanged bearing that goes in the diff? It seems that I go through one about every other weekend of racing. I clean it but it stills fills grity. So I replace.


Runnin Free, that is really not that uncommmon. I mean if you want a silky smooth diff every weekend, than that bearing has to go often!! Also-One hard hit to the right rear wheel destroys the bearing as well. If you need to tighten diff that much to get the right diff action, try using less diff grease, say on the balls only and leave the diff rings super clean and dry when building. Then take extra time working diff in as you tighten the adjusting nut down. Bit by bit, tighter and tighter. I build my 12th scale diffs with very little grease. Also-the outside flanged bearng shouldnt be cleaned. When its hosed-toss it.


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## RunninFree (Oct 7, 2001)

Thanks Dave and Ray,

Ray,

I am running Mods with the Rev3 now. What a blast!


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## CypressMidWest (Apr 30, 2002)

Ray speaks the truth. The flanged bearing is the thrust bearing in a pan car diff, and it's subjected to tremendous side loads. They have a tendency to get gritty more because of distortion rather than dirt. Unfortunately, they're the weak link in the chain and when they get gritty, pitch 'em! Also like Ray said don't clean the original grease outta the diff bearing. They always seem to work best when installed exactly as they come out of the package. Axle bearings, oh yeah, remove the seals and spray out all the grease and relube them with Zubak's bearing lube, or tribo, to free 'em up. But leave those diff hub bearings alone! :devil:


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## davidl (Jan 7, 2002)

CMW - do you use Tribo on bearings? I thought it was only for bushings.


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## CypressMidWest (Apr 30, 2002)

I personally don't use Tribo on bearings, but I know several people who do with great results. They like it a little better than normal bearing lubes and some say it actually makes their axle bearings last longer. I don't know how well it works. I do know that Zubie's stuff is wicked good though.


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

*Car is here!!!*

Well guys, my rev.3 came yesterday in the mail!!! I went home after work and had it running by 12am!! Sanded, CA'd glued, measured, etc!!!! I think I set a personal best for building a new car kit!!! 

I am so lost in some ways though. I cannot remember so much from last year!! It's pathetic. Here are my questions!!!

1. How wide can the car be-from rim to rim for ROAR/Champs?

2. Will going from a Personal Transponder to a regular transponder totally screw up the handling later? I ask because I have the PT for club racing, but the Champs will be using regular transponders. I know I can just redo the tweak, but will it really mess with the cars balance?

Thanks guys,
Ray


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## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

Hey Ray,

Do these Rev.3's come with building instructions? I had to take mine apart to prep the chassis and do some other stuff, and well, I don't remember how some parts went back together.

For one thing, I've never built one of these old school front ends before.

I've been going off the pic on the box and the pics on the web site.

-Rich


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

*Badges, we dont need no stinkin bages...*

Rich,

I know what you mean, but the anser is yes and no. There should have been an instruction sheet in the box. If not,call me and I'll explain everything you need to know (to make sure your slower than me!!).

Ray


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## mxatv151 (Nov 30, 2001)

*help!!!!*

hi to all 1/12 scale friends,
i have purchased an associated 1/12 scale, and man i have to say i love it, i've run Tc-3, Ntc-3, Losi xxxt, Losi xxxnt, shoot i own way too many cars but the 1/12 scale takes the cake........

Now for my question, I am not sure which modle this car is but, i need to know how to hold the 4 cell batt. in..... last weekend i used black tape and man did that suck.... my buddy has a carpet knife and his cells are all in a line, mine are split and facing sidways...

any idea's would be appreciated, thanx.......


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## John Warner (Jan 25, 2000)

*Re: help!!!!*



mxatv151 said:


> *hi to all 1/12 scale friends,
> i have purchased an associated 1/12 scale, and man i have to say i love it, i've run Tc-3, Ntc-3, Losi xxxt, Losi xxxnt, shoot i own way too many cars but the 1/12 scale takes the cake........
> 
> Now for my question, I am not sure which modle this car is but, i need to know how to hold the 4 cell batt. in..... last weekend i used black tape and man did that suck.... my buddy has a carpet knife and his cells are all in a line, mine are split and facing sidways...
> ...


 Tony.... I'm assuming you used electricial tape??? Yikes!! Anyway, most everyone I know with the Ass. car uses your basic strapping tape sold at most hardware stores. Or you could spend the BIG bucks and by the battery tape they sell at Rider's. Also.. be sure to keep some sissors in your pit box to remove the tape after runs.


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## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

You most likely have a 12L3. You will have to use strapping tape like you are currently doing to hold the batteries in.  

I use this stuff I got from my hobby store, but I don't know who makes them. It is the best battery straping tape I've come across.

Anyways, you probably just need to file down the sharp edges of the chassis. I am guessing the edges are still sharp.

Either use a metal rasp, or a strip of sand paper to round down the chassis edges (especially where the tape goes).

There is a good tutorial off of the CRC (http://www.teamcrc.com/team_crc_raceway/chassis.htm) website on how to prep a 1/12th chassis.

-Rich


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## psycho02 (Mar 27, 2002)

you need fibre reinforced strapping tape tony. that is the best way.

Riders has some good stuff back by the bodies and stuff. Just find scotty or tyrone and they will point you in the right direction.


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## Impactplayr (Sep 26, 2001)

OR if you like the Carpey Knifeyou can get the knife conversion from CRC.....

Dan's RC STUFF also makes a battery strap kit made for saddle packs that works well I us them on my 6-pack.....


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## mxatv151 (Nov 30, 2001)

*impactplayr*

were do i find this battery strap kit?.......

I so do not look forward to tapeing cells in every race.......need another way....

thanks guys......


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## Impactplayr (Sep 26, 2001)

Dan's Battery straps from tower hobbies 

Merry Christmas!!!!


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## Impactplayr (Sep 26, 2001)

a few pics


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

Tape is a terrible thing, but you'll get really good at it. Also-the shiny black tape with fiber reenforcement is the best-bar none!! And its easier to use than regular box strapping tape (doesnt fold over and attach to itself)!!!!!

Thats just the way it is with 12L3's!!! Also-the car wont suffer any ride height issues because the tape is very thin. And it's my recollection that 12L3's like to be run low to work best (3mm).


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## Impactplayr (Sep 26, 2001)

I run my 6-pack at 3mm and have not scraped the straps yet, just make sure the edges of the chassis are well rounded and totally smooth. But the same must be done with strapping tape as well.


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## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

Yeah, strapping tape really isn't that bad. Just do it so that the tape ends are at the top of the batteries. That way, you just undo the tape, pull out the batteries, strap in new batteries, and put a small piece of tape to hold the ends down if they have lost their stickiness.

That way you don't have to keep feeding the tape through the chassis and 'wasting' your tape.

-Rich


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## mxatv151 (Nov 30, 2001)

*problem solved....*

First i must thank all of you for your helpful idea's, but i was set on not using tape so this is what i did.....

after 2 days of thinking and asking questions i finally musterd up some kind of engineering of my own, I used a graphite battery bar from a xxxt, cut it shorter so that it just fit between the two rear body mount posts.... i then drilled holes on each end of the battery bar and slid it down the post so that it held the batterys snug...then drilled a hole in each post, and put a body clip in to hold the battery bar down......the battery bar clears the rear shock at all pivot points, and it is not so snug that it is tweeking the chasis........NOW, just need to race test it.... 
thanks guys, tony (aka mr. clean)


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## John Warner (Jan 25, 2000)

Well, hey now.... I guess if it works maybe you should patent your idea and sell it back to Associated! Or.. you could have simply bought a Calandra Carpet Knife!!


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## mxatv151 (Nov 30, 2001)

hey yeah, anyone that uses my idea send all checks payable to tony raison....he he

besides the carpet knife i was going to buy was sold out from underneith me,,, actually, it was right in front of me wasn't it..
I think i like the L3 a little more anyway


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## John Warner (Jan 25, 2000)

mxatv151 said:


> *hey yeah, anyone that uses my idea send all checks payable to tony raison....he he *


 And I supposed you expect us to sign our names to these checks too don't you?


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## psycho02 (Mar 27, 2002)

That should work okay tony. the only problem I can see is if the bar is loose enough to let the batteries "wiggle" around on the chassis. What you might want to do if that happens is get yourself some little pieces of soft foam to place between the battery hold down and the battery itself. Just a thought.


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## mxatv151 (Nov 30, 2001)

actually the battery bar already has foam on it, and i rapped the batterys w/ a piece of tape around each 2 cells, just to make sure they stay togeather....


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## psycho02 (Mar 27, 2002)

Sweeeet now the last test will be when you plow into the boards at full speed. If that happens and the battery stays still you know it is all good. And trust me these little puppies can hit the boards pretty darn hard. I seen where people have hit so hard that their speedo and reciever came loose from there servo tape. OUCH


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## John Warner (Jan 25, 2000)

psycho02 said:


> * I seen where people have hit so hard that their speedo and reciever came loose from there servo tape. OUCH *


 And believe me, Ken knows what he's talking about. After all, those cars that hit the boards that hard were probably sitting on his hood and getting a "little" push, if you get where I'm coming from!!!


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## psycho02 (Mar 27, 2002)

Only you Johnny boy only you.


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## John Warner (Jan 25, 2000)

psycho02 said:


> *Only you Johnny boy only you. *


 Well, after your post on our thread, I had to throw something back your way! Besides... does the truth hurt??????


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## psycho02 (Mar 27, 2002)

no way johnny throw it all at me bubba the truth is that i am a very clean 12th scale driver.


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## John Warner (Jan 25, 2000)

psycho02 said:


> *no way johnny throw it all at me bubba the truth is that i am a very clean 12th scale driver. *


 What the he77 does taking a shower before coming to the track have to do with anything???


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## psycho02 (Mar 27, 2002)

ha ha ha john but you know what i mean. the sad thing is that i don't have my 12th scale batteries yet.


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## Impactplayr (Sep 26, 2001)

Actually NOT taking a shower before going to the races can make you a better driver.... well not really, but if you reek badly enough then the other guys will find it hard to drive wth one hand holding their nose, or their eyes watering...  LOL


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## MaShaun (Sep 25, 2001)

*Gearing on the CK*

Its been a while since I used my carpet knife..
Whats some average gearing for a 100 tooth spur with this car on a fairly tight technical track?
Thanks
MaShaun


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## patcollins (Sep 29, 2001)

depends on the motor your running


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## Guest (Oct 12, 2002)

*rc12L3 Damper Plate...*

....Hi all.... 
You have a brand new "Newbie" here! Am trying to figure out how to post in the right spot here! well here goes...

I have raced Off Road and TC3 Stock Class here in Colorado. 
I am making the jump to the pan car class! I just put together a Associated rc12L3. I have read numerous postings on here. wow you guys are great for Info! Thanks to one and all! 

Ok here's my question: 
I have seen numerous postings on "Damper Plates" and how to keep the tension light and have a "very light coat of Lube". 
I have not seen this in the great and powerful Manual that comes with the car. Is this something new? How much tension? What kind of Lube? 

Thanks ahead of time for your responses... 

Doug


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## MaShaun (Sep 25, 2001)

Ok.. since I wasn't specific enough

P2K2 Pro motor
I'm not looking for the "all answer" I just can't remember ballpark ratio's its been so long


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## Guest (Oct 13, 2002)

*rc12L3...damper plate*

 Everyone must be racing?


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## weaponx13 (Apr 4, 2002)

mashaun with out knowing your tire dia. and roughly the size of the track it will be hard to give you an appropriate answer a little more info and i might be able to help


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## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

*Re: Gearing on the CK*

With 1.90" rear tires, start with a 29 tooth pinion. That's a safe place to start. If you find you have too much/enough rip out of the corners and not enough straight away speed, then gear up. Keep going up until you feel you have a good balance of straight away speed and acceleration out of the corner. Once you find a good gearing, work out your ratio and then adjust your pinion selection as your tire size decreases.

-Rich




MaShaun said:


> *Its been a while since I used my carpet knife..
> Whats some average gearing for a 100 tooth spur with this car on a fairly tight technical track?
> Thanks
> MaShaun *


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## rcsilly (Jul 30, 2002)

Are there any advantages to running a large spur / pinion combo , -vs- a smaller spur / pinion combo with the same size tire and the same (well almost) rollout ?


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## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

I'm not an expert on this topic.

From what I've experienced and what I've also been told in discussions with other folks at the track, the gearing ratio is the same using your above scenario.

What it does affect is the position of the motor can. A larger spur means you will run a smaller pinion and the motor will be closer to the front of the car (farther from the rear axle). A smaller spur means the motor will be closer to the rear of the car (close to the rear axle).

So, that affects your weight distribution (especially over the rear tires). 

Personally, I'm not sure I've ever really felt a difference... With my 12L I didn't have much room to move the can and was maxing out with a 100 tooth spur. However, with my Speedmerchant I am finding I have a LOT of room to move the motor fore. So, I'm tempted to put on a bigger spur (I currently run a 100 spur).


-Rich


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## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

This is what AE says off of their web site about this topic:

_What is the advantage or disadvantage of using a larger pinion and spur to achieve the same final/overall gear ratio? 

For instance, on the 48 pitch gears: 
69/23 = 7.50
72/24 = 7.50
75/25 = 7.50. 

With the smaller spur it will spool up faster, meaning the motor will get to speed faster and with the larger spur, it will have more torque.
_


So, there are two differing views on that. I don't know which is "more correct."

Fred Baumgartner was one of the folks that I was discussing this with, so I'll try and get him on here to explain what he told me.

-Rich


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## Fred B (Sep 26, 2001)

Generally, a gear ratio is a gear ratio. The mechanical advantage on the motor is the same for any given rollout. The idea that running a larger or smaller gear giving more or less punch given the same ratio is a load of pooh. Yes, larger gears are generally more efficient but, you'll never be able to feel the difference.

On a pan car (12th or 10th) the bigger gear moves the motor foreward in the car. This is what everyone's feeling on the car. Weight distribution, leverage of the sprung motor weight (closer to the t-bar), and the weight transfer are much larger factors in what you're feeling on the track.

I've spoken to a few of the other engineers here at work and the response varried from laughter to a long drawn out equation with the reply of "not much if any". Fact is there is a little going on with the bigger spur gears but not as much as the variation of gear mesh each time you set the motor.


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## rcsilly (Jul 30, 2002)

Ok , thanks guys , there goes that idea .lol
makes sense now  I went to the 94 spur on my 12L cause the 100 was max also. I ran 94 / 29 sun. with 1.9" tires = 1.83 rollout you think thats to tall for Larrys ? I'm clamped the last 5 min. and it seems to scrub alot of corner speed , and I try to drive a smooth line . check it out on friday. BOB


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## MaShaun (Sep 25, 2001)

Thanks everyone for the info.. looks like I was pretty close to the right gearing with that rollout. Reason I wasnt too concerned about rollout was that I was more worried about cooking my motor but it looks like I'm ok..


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## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

Hi Bob - I watched your car a little bit this last week. Your car looked to have a good amount of overall speed. You are losing a lot of your lap time mainly b/c your car doesn't turn.  And, b/c your car doesn't turn, you probably have a lot of steering throw and hence why you are scrubbing a lot of speed in the corner (and why you are dumping your batteries quicker). 

I'm just racing sedan this Friday, so I'll have more 'free time.' So, if it is okay with you, let me do a quick rebuild of your car. I'm not sure what time you can get to the track, but I'm hoping to be there around 2:00p.

-Rich


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## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

Nah, our 1/12ths are pretty light so your risk of roasting a motor in 1/12th is a lot less than in TC. 

The motor at most will just get really hot and you'll dump your batteries quicker.

-Rich




MaShaun said:


> *Thanks everyone for the info.. looks like I was pretty close to the right gearing with that rollout. Reason I wasnt too concerned about rollout was that I was more worried about cooking my motor but it looks like I'm ok.. *


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## Bobby Flack (Mar 3, 2002)

"I'm just racing sedan this Friday, so I'll have more 'free time.' So, if it is okay with you, let me do a quick rebuild of your car. I'm not sure what time you can get to the track, but I'm hoping to be there around 2:00p."
-Rich [/B][/QUOTE] 

Bob, I hope to be there about 3:00 so between Rich and I we could really screw up your car! I think it will be one class for me this week, not sure which one yet.

Ted


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## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

Oh yes indeed! We can definitely mess up that little car. :lol: We'll tag-team like in the WWF.


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## rcsilly (Jul 30, 2002)

Hey thanks Rich and Ted , 
I can leave out at like 3pm. so with traffic and all .........hope I can make it there by 4:30 - 5 . 
The overall speed seems OK , are you guys sauceing the front tires full ? I'm doing half front and full rear. Maybe my servo is to slow? 
Check it out on friday I'd really appreciate it . I dont seem to be dumping with the 3300s and a 5 amp @ 5 volts motor . But I still need a stronger motor as I dont think this one will make it thru tech. ( no tag on the arm , and no taper on the shaft ) ( OLD green machine "Fast ones " ) it was given to me .
"Racing on a budget " >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bob :thumbsup:


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## rcsilly (Jul 30, 2002)

OH YEAH ,, Rich........... its now the WW "E" .


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## rcsilly (Jul 30, 2002)

Will the thinner T plate cause my car to turn better?


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## Motor City Hamilton (Feb 5, 2002)

Nope. Thinner t-bar puts more weight on the rear wheels and gives less steering. Maybe try thicker lube on the rear top plates? Then go to the front of the car and mess around. Do you want more turn-in or more out?

Turn in - more castor (2 to 4 degrees)and/or less camber (-1.0 or -1.5 degrees).

More steering out - less castor (0 to 2 degrees) and/or more camber (-1.5 to -2.5 degrees).

Also, maybe dope full front and only 3/4 rear, if you really need that much more?

If that doesn't work, try letting off the gas, once in a while.


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## Motor City Hamilton (Feb 5, 2002)

Oh, hey... two more.

Make sure you run 3 screws in the rear pod/t-plate. That will give less rear.

And, maybe put a thin washer under the front t-plate screw. That will also give more front.

There... you should be spinning out in no time.


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## rcsilly (Jul 30, 2002)

OK heres my setup so you all know ahead of time:
purple front 1/2 sauced
grey rears full sauce
94/ 29 with a 1.9 tire = 1.83 rollout, 4 diff balls in HPI spur gear.I
old GM with 4499 s shaved edge pulling 5 amps at 5 volts
thick T plate 2 screws thru plate 
ass. silicon grease on the dampner
I loosened the t plate pivots for smooth action ( per Rich )
about .010 -.020" end play on rear axle . 
3mm ride height rear , just slightly more in the front( could this be my problem ?) maybe 3.5mm.
cyclone esc
3300s & 3000s
10 degree front mounts shim on each side for the 4 - 2 caster
1.0 neg camber 
0 toe
30 wt in shock w/ kit spring gold? I shortened the shock cups to allow some slight droop in the rear pod.
kit front springs .018" 
also I'm running a hobbyco (yuk) servo and its like .12 time ( not fast enough)? I've never spun out , but with Greens F/R I did traction roll,..............thanksagain Bob 
:roll:


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## Motor City Hamilton (Feb 5, 2002)

I always ran the nose lower than the rear. I'd put the front at 3mm and the rear slightly higher. Less air gets under the chassis and more weight is distributed to the front. Try that and maybe a shim under the front t-bar screw.

The rest sounds pretty good except for that HPI gear. I would throw that out and get a Kymbrough. HPI gears don't seem to be that true - slightly out-of round. And put all of the diff balls in it. You don't gain an advantage by putting more pressure on fewer diff balls.


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## rcsilly (Jul 30, 2002)

Oh yeah ..... and if I let off for the corner s i lose alot of momentum , so I'm pretty much clamped the whole time except to get outta Richs ( and everyone elses ) way. or if I get off line .
Could it be its stuck TOO good and its just sucked down speed in the corners ? 
I would really like to make this thing fast before the CRL race so I won't be in like "G " main with Greg. 
Bob :devil:


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## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

Hi Bob,

Part of your turning problem is your front springs. The traction at Larry's came up a lot last Friday. So, you will either want .020" or .022" front springs. If you can pick some up before Friday, that would be cool. Otherwise, I have some you can have.

The other is the T-plate. Like Keith suggested, running 3 screws will be much better. That will help free up the rear of the car.

Your front tires are also not sauced enough (in my opinion). When I ran the 12L I pretty much doped 90% of the inside of the front tires (especially with running purple fronts).

I also ran at least -1 deg toe-out.

With these 1/12ths, you need them to cut-in to the corner pretty good. The front springs, toe, center shock play a big role in that.

For the center spring, I normally ran the green spring. I think gold might be too stiff for you. 

We'll get the car set on Friday.  If you don't like the way it feels after that, we can adjust from there.

-Rich



rcsilly said:


> *OK heres my setup so you all know ahead of time:
> purple front 1/2 sauced
> grey rears full sauce
> 94/ 29 with a 1.9 tire = 1.83 rollout, 4 diff balls in HPI spur gear.I
> ...


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## Motor City Hamilton (Feb 5, 2002)

My bet is that the sides of your car are dragging in the corners. Check the sides, under the back corner of the batter slots. Is there any rubber build-up on the bottom of the chassis, there? If so, you're too low.

Damn, and I just sold all of my 12th scale stuff. You are making me miss it. I raced it for 20 years.


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## rcsilly (Jul 30, 2002)

OK , I found some washers to use as shims under the plate , they are .024" thick . use 1 under the front plate pivot right .
I need to have someone cut my front tires down .they are coned like .020" outside to inside,and the left is .025" smaller than the right ( guess I shoulda swapped them more often). I'm running 1 (READ 4)washer under the front mounts I would like to remove them and run a smaller tire , and maintain 3mm. Willies truer doesnt have 1/12th adapters and the truer at Larrys is not working so I'm told. 
I've got some Kimbrough gears , just thought 4 balls - vs - 6 = less rotating weight ? 
Also the rear height adjusters /bearings, fit very tight and I read in one of Joshs posts about opening up the holes & getting the inserts and the bearing to fit easier, and not possibly causing the bearing to bind , so I'll work on that too.
OK ...... 3mm front
3.5mm rear
shim frt T mount
open up rear adj./brg holes

I will try that , time to get started
Thanks again Keith........... Bob


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## Guest (Oct 16, 2002)

rcsilly -
Motor city is right about your diff balls, include all of them. your diff setup also affects your handling.

A tight diff will cause your car to push, for failure to rotate in the rear.

A loose diff will cause excess slippage, poor acceleration and or poor handling in the corners.

So take time to find the balance, it will only take a few moments.


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## Greg Anthony (Sep 10, 2002)

Keith, I have TONS of corally stuff, including one new car, and teh brand new car and a ton of tires on top of what me and Brian got from you a couple of years ago... I'm sure we can work smething out...

Oh, and is anyone else needs anything Corally, let me knwo, I have like 20 years worth of stuff I'm looking to get rid of...


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## Greg Anthony (Sep 10, 2002)

Bob, it seems that over the years teh ride height adjusters have been slightly increasing on size... I have some of the really old white ones off my original 10L and they fit perfectly! just a little trimming of the edges on the block and you should be all set, either use the Samurai dremel, sandpaper, or a exacto... Caution, requires a steady hand... ha ha :devil:


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## rcsilly (Jul 30, 2002)

Yeahhhh I made 100 posts,
Ok Rich thanks ,it did seem alot better traction fri than last week.
I'll try to find the spacer for the 3rd T plate screw. I dont think my kit had 3 , among other missing parts ,tweek screws etc.
. Ok heavier front springs 
softer rear spring
toe out
6 balls back in the diff
macdwnlw : I have tried adjusting the diff to where it is as loose as not to loose forward bite and it seemed to help in the corners. 
MCH : I see just a hint of rubber on the left edge of the chassis, and a little on the leading edge of the T plate , gotta go up a little.
"STILL SEARCHING" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BOB


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## Greg Anthony (Sep 10, 2002)

you might want to radius the edge of the chassis so teh edge will slide on the carpet instead of digging in, remember, 1/12th ride height for the CRL is 3mm....


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## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

Bob, just find an old T-bar and slice off and throw away the section that the pivot ball holders go into. You can then just use the left over section as your spacer between the T-bar and the rear pod plate.

Oh, don't bother building your diff before Friday. I'll show you some tricks for that. 

-Rich





rcsilly said:


> *Yeahhhh I made 100 posts,
> Ok Rich thanks ,it did seem alot better traction fri than last week.
> I'll try to find the spacer for the 3rd T plate screw. *


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## Guest (Oct 16, 2002)

Greg - 
Any chassis contact with the track should be avoided.


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## Greg Anthony (Sep 10, 2002)

True grasshopper.. but in extreme cases, ie. Toledo where my B3 would bottom out, making the chassis smmmooooottttthhhhhhh helps...


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## rcsilly (Jul 30, 2002)

OK ...... NOW EVERYONE ...... GET BACK TO WORK ! :wave:


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## rcsilly (Jul 30, 2002)

One last thing ....... Greg could you bring your truer on friday ?
Bob


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## Greg Anthony (Sep 10, 2002)

gee, sounds like Bob's jealous.... anywho, I'm just curoius how many of you all have any r/c related things at work?


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## rcsilly (Jul 30, 2002)

Not jealous ....... just wish I had a steady day job to pay the bills and live a little more comfortablly . ya know . 
Hey if you guys wanna talk R/C all day .....I'm up for it . 
Some times I take my car to work and leave stains on the carpet , unfortunatly being the night janitor ......I have to clean it up . lol

Bob :dude:


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## Motor City Hamilton (Feb 5, 2002)

I'll bring my truer on Friday. I have 1/12th bits, too. Also, after Rich shows you how to build the diff, bring it over to me, the master.  I'll show you the real way to build a diff.


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## rcsilly (Jul 30, 2002)

OK .....now I have 3 mechanics for friday ............
now I need to hire a driver .......
didnt I see Masami hanging around the last few weeks?
Bobo:roll:


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## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

Keith - hoo hoo. Funny boy.  Hey, you sure have been on here a lot. I hope your car is ready for Friday. If not, you should be banging on that and not the keyboard. 

(I assume we are not going to touch Bob's comment about leaving stains on the carpet at work)


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## rcsilly (Jul 30, 2002)

"stains on the carpet " >>>>>>>> yuk yuk<<<<<< should read " BURN OUTS!"


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## Greg Anthony (Sep 10, 2002)

well, is that better or worse then stains on your pit towel?


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## jason cheng (May 13, 2002)

just putting a 12th scale car together what is a good setup for the 12l3 car on carpet? what color fronts and rears also tire size to start at both front and rear. for stock and also mod?


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

> Standard universally accepted 12L3 set up for Ozite is as follows. Purple fronts (sauce for steering amount).
> 018 or 020 front springs
> 1 degree toe out 1.5 degree of camber
> ride height determned by bumps
> ...


I dont remember size tires exactly, but I think 1.80" front and 1.90" rear wouldnt be bad. With 1.80" fronts, you might need to shim up arms till they drop to 1.75" or so to keep ride height even with rear.


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## rcsilly (Jul 30, 2002)

guess what............... TWO broken diff rings
" no I dont hit any thing" right
guess I found out what 4 diff balls will do for ya.


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## Greg Anthony (Sep 10, 2002)

Gee Bob, what did you think you were running, a drag car so you needed a spool, now let's see how that baby turns!


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## rcsilly (Jul 30, 2002)

NOOOOO............ nitro onroad doh


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## rcsilly (Jul 30, 2002)

Ok heres the new set up , tell me what you think:
88/28 with 1.825" rear tire for 1.82 rollout
six balls in diff now 
refit axle brgs & adj. .010" axle end play
ride height at .125" frt with 1.7" tire / .145" rear
three screws thru thick T plate / .024" shim under frt pivot
neg 1 deg camber
10deg mounts set at 4 - 2 caster
slight toe out (.020")

No spring changes yet Riders didnt have any maybe Larrys does.
wish I had some place close to try it
C YA friday Bob


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## rcsilly (Jul 30, 2002)

Anyone besides Josh tried those new "granite " rears from TRC ?
They are supposed to give more corner speed ( the outside ring is black compound and the inner 2/3rd is gray)


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## rcsilly (Jul 30, 2002)

OK last one: 
my car weighs 27 1/2oz, w/o transponder , should I add the 1/2oz to the front,or near the middle , next to the ant . mount, I'd like to run it legal so the set up will be right for CRL and get the tweek set right 
Thanks for everyones input on this ! hopfully it will help me out , 
NOW WHO wants to be my motor sponsor ? LMAO 
BOB


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## Impactplayr (Sep 26, 2001)

add the weight as close to dead center (front/back and side/side) as possible, if you add the weight to the front or rear you will have more weight to transfer during breaking or accelerating which may actually amplify any handling problems you already have.....


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## Motor City Hamilton (Feb 5, 2002)

I dunno... In theory, for full-size cars, yes. But, 1/12th scale cars don't weigh that much and don't transfer much weight from front to back. Maybe from side to side? Plus, if rcsilly is using brakes in stock 1/12th, that might explain his slow corner speeds?


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## rcsilly (Jul 30, 2002)

I haven't touched the brakes once on my car in 4 weeks of racing 1/12th . In fact it seems like the last 6 min of my heats I dont even let off full throttle , except to let Rich go flyin by . I'm bringing rubber bands tonite as my throttle finger gets sore from squeezing it so hard . 
Bob :dude:


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## Sawzall (Mar 26, 2002)

Anyone running the older style Associated front end on there 12L3? If so any pros, cons, tips , tricks with these.


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## Sawzall (Mar 26, 2002)

Knock Knock anyone home?


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## Motor City Hamilton (Feb 5, 2002)

On the old style front end, I used a piece of a business card under the inside half of the block to give it less camber. I always liked running about 1 degree.


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## Sawzall (Mar 26, 2002)

Thanks Motor City. Not a bad idea, but I have some Parma camber shims. Clear plastic labeled 1 thru 3. Remember those?


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## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

You still need to take camber and caster measurements. Those plastic shims aren't always accurate.

On the old school front end I have one of the inserts was 1 deg off. However, the shims I have are by AE and are not Parma. Parma stuff is usually better quality.


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## davepull (Aug 6, 2002)

if you really want to get technical you can got to a local supply company like grainger and get shim stock they offer it in manny diferent thickness like from .001 and up we all know that the old front end isn't the same from side to side.


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## Guest (Oct 27, 2002)

Hey guys, I have read through about 80% of this thread, and have learned a lot so far. I am just getting started in 1/12th scale. I have ran just about everything else r/c, but this is all new to me.
Here is my ride , got it for $50 with the steering servo (Hitec) and 3 3000 Reedy matched packs. (I know they are old, I will be getting some new ones for racing. Those will be practice packs. I am told the car is a L2, and I plan on converting it mostly to a L3 since not much is different. I would like to use the 3 screw hubs I think. Those wheels and tires are trashed, so I need to buy new anyways. I plan on racing Bay City and Larry's with it, and I have read some good set up info in this thread that I think will get me all set up. Just need to get used to it and learn all the little tips and tricks to setting up the car right. I look forward to learning.


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## Sawzall (Mar 26, 2002)

Not a bad deal! What type of Hitec servo is that?


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## Guest (Oct 28, 2002)

It is a 225BB. Just need to get some other minor parts, like a body lol.


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## davepull (Aug 6, 2002)

that is the good chassis. form what i understand the older associated chassis doesn't flex as much as the new on. it is a little heavier but I have one and it ripps. I think that trc makes there tires with either 2 or 3 bolt patterns. good deal.


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## Tres (May 10, 1999)

The TRC tires are combo wheels..Meaning they can do either 2 or 3 bolt...


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## Sawzall (Mar 26, 2002)

:thumbsup: TRC


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## Guest (Oct 29, 2002)

Ah thats cool. Thanks for the info. Maybe I will keep it 2 bolt for now, get some TRC's, then later on I can go 3 bolt if I feel the need. What do you guys think? 2 or 3 bolt? I would think 3 bolt would make the tires run truer.


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

You have the best of both worlds with the TRC rims so just stay 2 bolt for now. You wont see an improvement with 2 or 3 bolt hubs. I have a ton of 2 bolt tires and rims if you ever wanted to do your own tire mounting!!!! But-not for me!!! Pre-built or nothin'!!! I'm lazy!!!


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## Impactplayr (Sep 26, 2001)

*2 bolt vs. 3 bolt*

The main reason I prefer the 3 bolt design is that you can use a long setscrew, thread it into one of the holes with lock tight on it and use it as a guide to allow you to mount your wheels on the hub much more quickly...... Besides it is the newest piece and looks cooler to me...LOL

Why 2 bolt ever became the standard wakes on since to me......


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## EricF (Oct 29, 2002)

*speedmerchant rev.3*

Can the rev.3 only be purchased through hobbyetc or can I have my LHS order one for me? Also, what's the part number for the kit? I live in Arizona, and I'd rather get the car through my LHS than mail order.

Thanks, Eric


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

YOur LHs would have to become a Speedmerchant dealer. To be honest-a lot of parts are Associated parts (front arms, spindles, bearings, springs, kingpins, axle, pod plates, VCS Micro shock, diff rings, etc., etc. that even if you buy the car from Hobbyetc. your LHS will make the money where they always have-the spare and hop-up parts!!!

I would just order it from Hobbyetc and get your parts from LHS. Oh-yeah-from Hobbyetc. also order all of the side springs (Orange, Blue, White, etc.....).

*Its part number 1400*

If you dont know this already-the car is awesome!!! Its fast, easy to drive and is endlessly adjsutable. It will work well on low grip carpet and oh-my-god traction like at big carpet races!!!


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## CypressMidWest (Apr 30, 2002)

*REV. 3!!!!!!!*

Ray speaks the truth!!! It is the most dialled 12thscale car ever constructed. Infinitely adj. exceptional build quality, and no taping batteries!! Plus the car just plain looks cool. The parts interchangability is high, and virtually anything you break can be easily replaced at any dealer who carries AE gear. My local hobby store doesn't carry Speedmerchant products, but I'm working on 'em. I mean please.... They carry Corally stuff. Anyway, if you get the car you'll be nothing but pleased. Plus on this forum there are a wealth of individuals who run the car, so set-up advice is just a short post away. :devil:


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## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

Hey now, watch what you say about those Corally cars. Oh wait... I run a Rev.3, too. 

As everyone else has said, it is GREAT car. I ran a 12L3 the last 3 years.

But, I switched to the Rev.3 this year just to try something different. All I can say is, I wish I hadn't waited so long.


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## EricF (Oct 29, 2002)

*rev.3 pt# replies*

Thanks for the speedy replies on the part number, etc. One other thing I forgot to ask. How much does it cost? I need to get permision from the treasury dept. (wife) before I can make purchases over $10.00  

Also, I've read all 20+ pages of this thread and it seems to me that the Rev.3 is the better car for carpet. Hopefully in mid Nov. a new store will finally open in my area, 18,000+ sq.ft. of hobby store, carpet & offrd tracks.

Thanks guys,

E


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## Impactplayr (Sep 26, 2001)

I prefer the CRC cars personally, but I believe either car will be fast..... It's just me but I like more steering....

However I am concidering a second 1/12th car for asphalt.... does anyone have the Speedmerchant website address, I used to have it but it got lost and I can't find it to save my life.....LOL

Right now I am triing to band together a group of 4-5 guys to race 1/12th with so that we can race at the local track and once a month take a day trip and invade one of the 3 other tracks in the area!!!!


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## CypressMidWest (Apr 30, 2002)

www.teamspeedmerchant.com:devil:


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## EricF (Oct 29, 2002)

*rev.3 / crc front susp*

I think I missed it... but what's the difference between the rev.3 and the crc.

Does the crc come with the Assoc. style front end, where as, the rev.3 has its own design?

Why does one seem to have/give more steering than the other?

Someone please inform me as to the diff./benifits, etc.

Thanks,
E


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## Impactplayr (Sep 26, 2001)

Here is what Speedmerchant says:

This is a close up of the "old skool" front end used by many of our team drivers. Just a note about this. Here at SpeedMerchant, we do a lot of testing, and I can tell you on our car the old style front end works better about 90% of the time. Here's what we've found over the past few seasons. 


The new stlye front end is better on bumpy tracks. Hopefully yours' isn't like that, but in our travels we've been on some pretty scary surfaces. In these cases, we put the new style front ends on the cars. 


The "old skool" (yes, I realize that's not how school is spelled) front end gives our car more steering entering a corner than the new style front end. 


In the center and exit of the turn it has slightly less steering than the new style front end. 


This tends to compliment our chassis' handeling characterisitcs. Because of having all the weight in the centerline of the chassis, the Rev.3 doesn't transfer as much weight as most 12th scale cars do when entering a sharp corner, this can lead to "push" or "understeer". Like I said earlier the old style front end remedies this situtaion. 


Once you're in the corner the Rev.3 makes it VERY easy change your line(passing), and to drive tight and fast. Why? Because The Rev.3 didn't transfer all that weight when it initially went into the corner, it now doesn't have to wait for the transfered weight to rebound and then settle back down. The Rev.3 stays flat through the entire corner. Remember, when ever you have any motion other than forward, ie. side to side swaying, you are loosing foward momentum. That's a fact. So a flat chassis equals extra speed and efficiency that wasn't robbed in the corners. 


The "old skool" front end has much less "slop" than the new style. Whenever you have "play" in a suspension, either from wear or poor assembly you are just asking for inconsistency. 


The "old skool" front end weighs about 1/2 of what a new one weighs. This lowers your cars total weight as well as lowering its' center of gravity. 


The "old skool" front end can take a good hit and not go out of tweak. The new style front end is notorious for "moving" after a hard hit and then throwing the whole car out of tweak. Tons-o-times over the past few years drivers have brought me cars to look at with the complaint "It's out of tweak." After going through the car, guess where the problem is usually found. The front end. Either the delrin pivot balls are bound up, a spring is collapsed, or just too much play in the parts, etc, etc, etc. 


Remember the K.I.S.S. theory on racing. Keep It Simple Stupid.

I personally prefer the new front end, I also prefer a car that includes the new front end..... however I do have an old school front end, and it's a whole lot cheaper to buy the old front end at $20 in parts than the new at $40......


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## CypressMidWest (Apr 30, 2002)

I personally hate the "new" front-end, due to it's inconsistency, and lack of durability. The "Old Skool" front-end is just way more durable and less prone to moving around after a hit. I also don't feel that the CRC car has anymore steering than the Rev. 3. I switched to a Rev.3 from the Knife. I really didn't feel that I lost any steering at all, what I did notice was a car that was just as agressive, yet way less likely to square off the apex of a tight, fast corner. 

There are several differences between the Knife and the Rev.3. These are the biggies: Outboard tweak-spring location, better damper tube geometry, adjustable battery position, adjustable side links, slightly longer wheelbase. All these things add up to a car that I find easier to drive, and more consistent from run to run. :devil:


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## Impactplayr (Sep 26, 2001)

As with all forms of racing, cars are personnal preferences. I own/race a CRC 6-pack and you would have to pry it from my cold dead fingers. I find the car much more consistant, smooth, and aggressive than any car I have previously driven. I also have never had any breakage with the new front end..... however my dad has about 12 left side old school fronts.....LOL

However I am concidering triing a different brand as a second car..... Or I will just get a BLOODY RED CARPET KNIFE (drool).........


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## NitroBurner74 (Jun 16, 2002)

What do you guys think of the new Trinity SB 12 02 and how does it compare to a carpet knife 3.1?


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## Impactplayr (Sep 26, 2001)

Nothing compares to the Knife....LOL


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## Motor City Hamilton (Feb 5, 2002)

NitroBurner74 - Do you by chance have a 1974 Corvette, spiced with Nitro? Or is the logo and name just for show?


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## NitroBurner74 (Jun 16, 2002)

I just love corvetts and I use to race nitro trucks.
:thumbsup:


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## Guest (Nov 9, 2002)

*Motors for RC12L3*

Howdy to all...

I have found I really like the Orion Core stock motor for my RC12L3, "BUT".... problem is.. It is a pain to remove and replace. The P2K Pro has the "flat" area on the can to make it easy to remove and replace. 

The Orion Core is completely ROUND! Therefore I find I have to remove the rear axle to replace this motor. 

Has anyone else out there come across this problem?

Thanks,

Doug


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## Guest (Nov 9, 2002)

*Foam Tire Traction...*

Hey,

Has anyone heard of "Captain Jack" ? Comes in a Silver/Purple can.

There is a new indoor Carpet track, it is the only stuff they allow.

Everyone is sold out of the stuff.

Any leads?

Doug


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## NTwigs (Sep 29, 2001)

It's called Jack the Gripper. Corally produces it. YOu should be able to get it from you local hobby shop. If not you may be able to get it from Superior Hobbies.


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## Guest (Nov 9, 2002)

Hey NT...

Thanks... I sit corrected.


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## 1fastguy1 (Apr 30, 2002)

*motor*

Hi guys 
as far as the motor not fitting in 12l3 it is typical.
all of the other reedy motors and trinity motors either have a 
flat spot in the can (trinity) or a notch cut in the can(reedy TI,
MVP) as far as the orion motor goes, you have to pull the top plate off(as you probably already know) In 12th scale that usually isnt a very competative motor anyway.At least not in the midwest.
thanks
Mo


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## Guest (Nov 10, 2002)

Well I do have a P2K Pro, I wanted to see how this Orion Core does. I will let ya know. 

Whew, little nervous, first indor race for me this morning, I better get on the road.

D


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## Bodido (Oct 18, 2001)

Just thought I'd bring this thread back up to the top.

We're starting a 1/12 scale class in our area in a couple weeks, and it looks like we're going to have at least a B main on the first night. Huge interest so far in our local area, and we haven't even run yet. We'll be running on brand new ozite. Track is about 60x25 feet, I believe. Should be pretty tight and technical.

Most of us will be running carpet knives or 12L3's.

Myself and a couple of friends bought carpet knives. We're fairly happy with quality of the kit, but we still have a few issues.

The diff:

The diagrams show three belville washers. We ALL only recieved one washer. Mine is assembled with only the one, and the diff feels great. Very smooth, and doesn't feel like it will slip any. Will there be a problem with running only one? 

One of my friends didn't recieve the hub spacer. It seems whoever packs these boxes at CRC needs to pay a bit more attention.

Axle came with two shims. These aren't shown in the diagrams or mentioned in the instructions. Do we need them? Where?

left hub: It's unclear in the directions which way this goes on the axle. I know one way is right, and the other is wrong, but that's all I know.

The front end:

It seems everyone has this problem to various degrees. Jaco rims drag against the front end when assembled as directed. I had to add two front end shims per axle so the wheels don't drag. This works ok, but it barely leaves enough threads exposed on the axles for the nut to be secure. It's barely threading far enough to reach the nylon insert in the nut. Losing a wheel during a race is one of the lamest ways to lose. I'd rather my poor driving take care of that. 

Enough with the issues....



I'll be running the following setup to start with:


Jaco purple fronts, gray rears. What diameters should I start with?

.20 springs in the front

Castor is set up like in the directions: a shim on each side of the upper arm. How much castor is this?

Camber is around -1 degree. Will adjust for even tire wear I guess.

I currently have 35 wt. oil in the shock with the included copper spring. This seems like it may be on the soft side for very smooth carpet. What do you guys think? 

Tweak springs are the included white ones.

Losi standard hydra fluid in the damper tubes.

I have heard there should be roughly 1mm of droop in the rear. Would this be measured at the rear of the motor pod?

I'm using an Airtronics 94145 servo, and C2 esc. 3000hv's for now, will be switching to gp3300's soon. I haven't really given much thought to motor choice and rollout yet. (stock btw)

Does it sound like I'm on the right track here? Or am I out in left field? 


Any input on this stuff will be really helpful, not just for me, but for many in my area. Thanks in advance.

Chad


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## Heybales (Oct 30, 2002)

Bodido - The diff only uses one Belleville washer. I'm pretty sure there is no hub spacer(At least on current axles). You can put a shim on both sides of the pod, but I would try and measure to make sure the overall width is the same from the center out on both sides. The large side of the hub should go into the wheel, it will be pretty snug. Also it is a good idea to file all the flash off the screw holes so the wheel sits flush and spins true. I always use one axle shim on my front axles. It is a good idea to put the axle nuts on backwards to make sure they don't come off.

I would start with 45mm front and 49mm rear tires. You may have to find some thinner front spacers to set ride height and use #1 in the rear. The car should sag slightly in the middle also.

The front end in the kit needs to be shimmed differently on the right side to get the recommended 2 degrees of caster. Look at it closely after assembly. I strongly recommend at least trying the old style Associated front end, most people prefer it.

The rest of the setup is OK to start. Keep going stiffer until it is hard to drive and then back it off some. I usually run .020 front springs, 50wt oil with CRC stiff silver spring, red tweak springs, and 90 or 100wt oil in the tubes. Light Losi Hydra fluid is a good place to start. Lighter tamper fluid will make it more responsive.

Good Luck

Dana Bailes


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## Bodido (Oct 18, 2001)

Thanks Heybales.

The spacer I spoke of is supposed to go between the large flanged bearing and the belville washers according to the included diagram. In the diagram it is labeled "Alum cone". Should I run the "one" belville washer directly against the flanged bearing, and ditch the spacer. This is the included yellow IRS axle setup, if that helps clarify.


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## Heybales (Oct 30, 2002)

I'm sorry. You should definitely have that diff spacer. The spacer rides on the inner race of the baearing. Then the belleville with the hole side first then the nut. Be careful not to overtighten or you can flat spot the bearing.

Dana


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## DanielBurgoyne (Nov 28, 2001)

*Rev. 3 or CK 3.1?*

Hi,

I race 1/12th stock or 19T on carpet and the track is about 48 by 60 feet most times. I have read this thread from the beginning and I have seen many advocates of the Speedmerchant and I understood that those people preferred it compared to a 12L3 but I am unsure about the verdict between the Speedmerchant Rev. 3 vs. the Carpet Knife 3.1. I own two CK3.1 and one 12L3. The CK is great for stock. Does the Speedmerchant handle about the same as the CK3.1? I would like to hear it from people who have had experience with both of the latter cars. The CK is a better deal so I would like to know why I should go with the Speedmerchant. Oh, by the way, Hobby Etc. is out of Rev.3 kits. Would that mean that a Rev. 4 is in the works? Thanks.


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## Heybales (Oct 30, 2002)

Daniel - You have plenty of hardware. Go to the track and have fun with it. I don't think you will see enough difference to warrant buying a fourth 1/12th scale car. I have driven almost every kind of car out there and I think any of them can produce great results. It is a matter of which car suits your driving style. The one you are most comfortable with is the one you'll be faster with.

Dana


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

daniel,

As far as I know-there is no rev.4 !!! I have another rev.3 on order. As heybales says-drive what suits you and the rev.3 suits me great!!! the spring cars just take more TLC than the T-plate cars. You gotta stay on top of the side links and always keep the car perfectly tweaked with as little load on the springs as possible.

Ray


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## lastplace (May 17, 2002)

Gearing Question. I just picked up a used 12L3 to run at tiderwater rc. The car came with a 96t/64pitch spur gear, I wanted to run a 35t/64p pinion but it won't fit. I'm using a MVP (4 cell )so I wanted to gear up a bit. Question 1; Can I toss the 64 pitch and go with 48 pitch gears? Question 2; Should I toss the 96t/64p and go with something smaller? Question 3; What is the perfered gear set up? Help!!


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## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

If you dremel the top, trailing edge of the T-plate you can move the motor closer to the front of the motor pod and can fit a larger pinion in.

Basically the T-plate edge gets bevelled to fit the contour of the motor can.

-----

In regards to the Rev.3, I'm pretty sure the delay in shipping is because they are still working on getting the side damper tubes made. Bolink used to make the side damper tubes but their machine broke and I don't think they have the means to repair it. From what I am told, Speedmerchant found another place to make them in November and is waiting for the tubes to be made.


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## lastplace (May 17, 2002)

Thanks Rich :thumbsup: , What gear ratio are you running?


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## 300M (Apr 24, 2002)

Chris
Look for a rollout of ~ 42 to start for P2K2, ~ 40 for MVP. I did a chart in excel for rollout. Assuming you are using new tires at 50.5mm or 2" that would yeild a 57.8 rollout 

Rich: How much front/rear stagger did you run with the 12L? I set mine up at 2.5mm 
Thanks


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## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

Lastplace -- roll out is more what you want to look at instead of just gear ratio. It seems most folks run a roll-out between 1.65 to 2.10 -- it depends on the motor, track size, and driving style (ie: throttle finger). I race with folks that 
run a roll out of 2.05 on a tight track! I can't run that high. I'm usually somewhere around 1.75.

300M - I'm terrible with terminology but doesn't stagger apply for oval racing?  If not, I'm guessing you want to know my tire sizes front to rear? I haven't run a 12L in about a year now (I'm running a Rev.3), but I think tire size wise for big races I ran 1.71" fronts and 1.87 rears. The chassis was pretty level (with the front a little bit lower than the rear). Hope that was what you were looking for!


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## lastplace (May 17, 2002)

300m, Rear tires are 51.5 mm, 96t/64pitch spur, running a MVP, what should my pinion be?? THANKS for the help

P.S. Merry Xmas

:wave:


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## 300M (Apr 24, 2002)

Merry Christmas to you and your family too!! Figured I would check the mail before the elves got busy 
I would start with a 24 pinion, rollout 40.45. With the high RPM of the MVP this might be right. 25 ===> 42.1, 26 ==> 43.8
:thumbsup: Have a great one!

Rich: Thanks, yes that is what I was after. The height differance between the front and the rears. Like lastplace, I am new to 1/12. Just had mine 6 weeks longer


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## lastplace (May 17, 2002)

Thanks 300M, see ya next week:wave:


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## RunninFree (Oct 7, 2001)

What would the effects be of tires not being rounded off correctly?


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## fReShJiVe (Jun 1, 2002)

*New to 12th scale*

Hi

Just got a used Rev3 in a trade and was wondering how to set up the car..Questions are:-

The effects of changing to softer or harder
1)center springs
2)side spring
3)center shock oil

any input is highly appreciated

thanks


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## CypressMidWest (Apr 30, 2002)

Runnin' Free: Not rounding the edges of the tires wil make the car, (please forgive the pun), edgy. It makes the car wanna tip over in high speed cornering situations. What you do is effectively run the car onto that sharp edge at speed. The rounded tire allows you to use more of the contact patch initially. A tire with a more squared edge can actually be advantageous on loose conditions where the car has no high-speed side bite though.

fReShJiVe: center shock oil and spring: Control how the car handles bumps, and to a certain degree, forward traction. A softer center spring/oil combo will let the car absorb bumps better and give a little more forward bite. Generally, if the track is smooth and has decent bite, you'll wanna run a Black spring, with 60 to 90 wt. oil.

Side springs: the side springs dictate how the weight is transferred latterally, stiff side springs and light dampening and the car will transition very quickly side to side, soft spring thick dampening will make the car lazy through quick transitions. 


Ian Ruggles
Team Speedmerchant


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## fReShJiVe (Jun 1, 2002)

CMW - thanks for the setup tips

a few more questions please correct me if i'm wrong:-

1)softer side = less turn in(off power) , more out of turns(on power)
2)softer center = less turn in , more out of turns


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## CypressMidWest (Apr 30, 2002)

1. Yes
2. Yes, out of the corner, but the center shock spring doesn't effect turn-in unless it's way off one way or the other.

But there is a point of diminishing return. Too soft and the car will feel like it bogs down going in (side-off power). Too soft on the center spring and the car will feel soft accelerating out of the corner.


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## davidl (Jan 7, 2002)

CypressMidWest said:


> 2. Yes, out of the corner, but the center shock spring doesn't effect turn-in unless it's way off one way or the other.


Gee Ian, who told you that?


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## fReShJiVe (Jun 1, 2002)

davidl - please post your tips on the setups...


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## Impactplayr (Sep 26, 2001)

David doesn't go on message boards to help just usually to be condesending or obnoxious..... He's a ROAR representative you know.....LOL


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## davidl (Jan 7, 2002)

Player - I will be condesending to you because you don't run 1/12. Plus you fit into one of the most obnoxious rc areas I have ever been to.

Mr. freshjive - I will relay to you that the center spring on a monoball car is very critical. You can't compare it to a tee-bar type car. I am genuinely interested in the answer from Mr. CypressMW. Please understand that I know him very well, and for a long time. We both run the Speedmerchant REV3, but he was a Carpet Knife guy for a while before the REV3. They do different things with the REV3 than the Carpet Knife guys do, and visa versa.
My experience with the REV3 is that the center spring has a lot to say about how agressive the car enters the corner. To me, it means off power steering to the center of the corner. The black spring recommended for the REV3 is much more agressive than the red or copper spring. I believe that description differs from the description you got from Mr. CypressMW (see 2 above).


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## Impactplayr (Sep 26, 2001)

If you say I don't run 1/12th scale I guess I bought my car for no reason at all?!?!? Right now I am waiting on the Vforce front end to be released, and nobody wants to run 1/12th asphalt down here.... 

I also guess we are obnoxious because we don't wish to drive 2-3 hours to race at a regionals on a rack just big enogh for Micros......

BTW: the above is the first informative post I have ever read from you..... Congrat!!! You didn't hurt either of your pointer fingrs did you??????


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## fReShJiVe (Jun 1, 2002)

davidl said:


> Player - I will be condesending to you because you don't run 1/12. Plus you fit into one of the most obnoxious rc areas I have ever been to.
> 
> Mr. freshjive - I will relay to you that the center spring on a monoball car is very critical. You can't compare it to a tee-bar type car. I am genuinely interested in the answer from Mr. CypressMW. Please understand that I know him very well, and for a long time. We both run the Speedmerchant REV3, but he was a Carpet Knife guy for a while before the REV3. They do different things with the REV3 than the Carpet Knife guys do, and visa versa.
> My experience with the REV3 is that the center spring has a lot to say about how agressive the car enters the corner. To me, it means off power steering to the center of the corner. The black spring recommended for the REV3 is much more agressive than the red or copper spring. I believe that description differs from the description you got from Mr. CypressMW (see 2 above).


Thanks davidl :thumbsup:


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## CypressMidWest (Apr 30, 2002)

davidl: It's odd that you'd say that, maybe it is the old 'Knife clouding my vision, but I find that the center shock spring's effect, especially with the batteries in the rear position, doesn't have a great effect on initial turn in. I find that its' ability to regulate weight transfer to the rear of the car under acceleration OUT of the corner SUBSTANTIALLY contributes to the car's exceptional corner speed out of the corner. If I change from a black spring to a copper, my initial steering feel going in is the same. If it's too soft then I find the car isn't free _at the apex_, and will push out because the weight can shift back harder under acceleration. When it's too stiff, it seems to rotate too hard, _at the apex_, and will be loose off the corner because it hinders weight transfer more. I guess the way I set the car up still differs from that of my teammates. I still use the front-end to get the car INTO the corner, and then use the rest of the car to get through the apex and out.


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## CypressMidWest (Apr 30, 2002)

davidl: You also said "off-power steering" going into a corner........ Who let's off going into a corner? LOL!


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## Greg Anthony (Sep 10, 2002)

Ian, what book are you copying that all out of, I want to buy a copy!!! Does Bruce or Hank sell one?


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## CypressMidWest (Apr 30, 2002)

Greg: That's all me baby!! Maybe I should right a book!........Bad Idea, who's gonna buy a book on set-up written by somebody who can't drive?LOL! :devil:


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## Greg Anthony (Sep 10, 2002)

Damnit!!! you beat me to the punch line!!! But definately not the finish line!!! hahahaha


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## davidl (Jan 7, 2002)

CMW - I do. And I am not trying to be smart here, but maybe that is why I have a couple Nats championships?  I want to add to this that Bruce and I always compare notes on setup after we think the track has leveled off and it always comes up on bumpy tracks. Bruce sez, "We need to keep the black spring on the center shock so the car will turn in." That is my way of quoting him, but you can get the point. I am now in Indiana and will be monitoring your efforts. Remeber, practice, practice, practice, and when you think you have it, practice some more. You need more laps.


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## CypressMidWest (Apr 30, 2002)

davidl: Practice.....preparation is the key to victory!! 

Seriously though, even off-power, I don't notice the turn-in difference between a Black and a Copper. Now between a Black and a Red, I'll notice a difference, but that goes back to the "way-off" portion of my original post. I personally have never run on a track that I felt would warrant a Red spring. Of course, my car has never felt loose going into a corner, but i have experienced a loose condition while accelerating away from corners, and under those circumstances, I go to the copper spring. 

Maybe you'd have more than 3 or more national titles, if you drove a little deeper, and pulled a little earlier in the corners, J/K!


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## Greg Anthony (Sep 10, 2002)

DavidL, are you in IN as we speak? shoot me an e-mail at [email protected] 

Do any of you guys have a setup for the Rev.3 for outside?


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## CypressMidWest (Apr 30, 2002)

I believe you David. I have no doubt that Bruce says that, and I guess you guys are probably correct in that it helps keep the weight on the front-end going into the corners. But like I said , I think the difference between a copper and a black is fairly negligible in that regard. As for a red spring that's a whole different story. 

I'm glad you're "Back Home In Indiana", and I look forward to racing with you again. Maybe this time I can learn some things from you! :devil:


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## Greg Anthony (Sep 10, 2002)

It's "Back Home A-gain, in In-diana" geez, damn buckeye get it right....


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## davidl (Jan 7, 2002)

CMW - yea, we can hook up. Things are different now. Don't have to prove anything. It's all good.

Greg - OK, I don't know how much I can help, but I will send you a message.


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## davidl (Jan 7, 2002)

CMW - I forgot to mention that my experience indicates a noticable difference between the two springs. But, sometimes the bumps are so bad from those silly touring cars that it is better to use the copper or red spring. But you haven't answered my question. Who told you the info you posted earlier? Was it from the Carpet Knife group? And this isn't a flame on other people, especially CRC. Their car is different and will respond to other things.


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## ohiorcdad (Mar 25, 2002)

Alright Buster that's enough of the Hoosier jokes. Us Hoosier boys can tell some Michigander jokes don't you know. Oops better not do that, Jake's a Yooper.


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## Greg Anthony (Sep 10, 2002)

ha ha ha... don't forget, I went to college in IN... you guys going ROAR Nats in NC?


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## ohiorcdad (Mar 25, 2002)

Greg,
No we are going to the off-road fuel Nats in OK City. Been having some fun with the RC10GT. May try to come up to MI for something this summer. If the Nats were foam we'd go but no rubber for us unless there is absolutely nothing else.


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## Greg Anthony (Sep 10, 2002)

you want to go to Road Rash, oops, I mean Road Rage at CORCAR at the end of july then, I'm trying to get Mo and Ian to run a little mod 1/12th....


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## CypressMidWest (Apr 30, 2002)

davidl: It's not information I was given by anyone, it's based on the only significant amount of testing I've really done between the two springs, which was right after I got the car, at Crossroads. I have since run the black spring almost exclusively, since I really only run at two to three different tracks during the course of the season, all of which are smooth enough to not require any less spring tension. I may hit Ultra in a few weeks to do some 1/12th testing, and if I do I'll definitely do some runs on different shock springs, and re-evaluate from there. We'll see...... :devil:
I did however, find the shock spring tension on the CK to have a more pronounced effect on turn-in. I think the weight distribution, and shorter wheelbase of the CRC car, make it a bit more sensitive to shock changes. The inboard springs also make it less sensitive to changes in side spring tension, and slightly more sensitive to changes in side dampening. 
Now a question for you davidl... Are you running the low roll-center rear set-up?


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## davidl (Jan 7, 2002)

No Ian, I am using the standard roll center in the rear. I like it better because the car rotates better and there still is plenty of rear traction, even for the modified car. The lower roll center is something the guys can try on pavement, but I don't care for it on carpet. I know Alex, Mo and Paul used the lower roll center in Minneapolis, but I don't know why they tried it in the first place. I wasn't there and only know what others have said. I haven't heard any logical description of the track that justifies using the lower roll center at the Nats.


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## CypressMidWest (Apr 30, 2002)

cool, I'll grill Mo on the details, Sunday. I know Jakes ran it at Ultra, which I just didn't understand, but to each their own.


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

*High spped steering*

Ian and David,

Last race I finally drove 12th scale again. Man was that fun-but I digress. I had to slow down more than the other guys in the high speed 180 off of the back straight into the infield. I was running a pretty stiff set-up. my question-In general-to increase high speed steering-I would want to lighten the side springs-correct? I had White and am thinking Blue might have been better. I also know I lacked a bit of turn in in the tighter turns as well-which might be the same side spring issue.


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## davidl (Jan 7, 2002)

Ray - good to talk to you again. I haven't run white side springs on the Speedmerchant REV3 for 2 years. I ran the blue alot and the orange as well. Bruce and I differ on this part, but I think I can get enough agressiveness in the front steering to run blue or orange. That is due to the black center spring and not very much castor. So I think that those 2 springs would be good choices and help you a lot. Does the layout have some places where the car must recover very quickly?What rear tire do you run? Sometimes I used the white rear tire, got more forward bite, and decreased my laptime. That was important when using that black center spring. Another thing you can do if the layout allows for a slow reacting car is to increase the thickness of the damper fluid. But then you might have to steer the car off the corner, but it could be faster in that section. Consider whether it is easy enough to drive and your full laptime to pick the best adjustment. Good luck.


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## davidl (Jan 7, 2002)

CypressMW - lets go to Ultra tomorrow. You and me. Championship of the devine duo.


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## CypressMidWest (Apr 30, 2002)

Ahh, alas I missed the invite, and had childcare issues to boot. Sorry DL! It's gonna be a little while before I can make it back to the Air Conditioned Ozite covered Paradise known as ULTRA. I unfortunately have been bitten by the dreaded SEDAN racing bug. So the next few weekends will be spent in the Parking Lot at CORCAR's current location.


I had planned to go out to Ultra for testing this past Sunday, (since my sedan racing compatriot Mr. Pulfer, was away), but my ex was very uncooperative. It seems that after working a 10 hour shift Saturday night, she wasn't receptive to caring for a two year old, who'd arrive about 5 mins. after she got home from work. She's not very understanding of my racing needs, and that's probably part of the reason we're no longer together.

Will you be traveling to NC for ROAR's paved festivities DL?


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## davidl (Jan 7, 2002)

CMW - You can run touring car at Ultra. I did tonight. I am not going to NC for the ROAR Nats. I don't have enough money to go there.


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## CypressMidWest (Apr 30, 2002)

I am also too funds deficient to attend. I'm currently embroiled in a points battle at CORCAR in Columbus. It's a best 5 of 8 series, so my racing will take place in The Lot for the next 3 weeks or so. I, at the very least,need to take advantage while Mike and Mo are in North Carolina.


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## davidl (Jan 7, 2002)

CMW - that's pretty lame when you are in 15th place.


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## Greg Anthony (Sep 10, 2002)

:jest: :lol: :jest: :lol: :tongue:


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## CypressMidWest (Apr 30, 2002)

15th? Uhh, Ninth prior to throwout weeks, (I've missed one week). After factoring in throwouts, prior to this weekends standings, which as of yet are unposted on the CORCAR site, I believe I'm tied for third, after yesterday, based on throwouts I think I'm in a solid third now.


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

*Set-up ideas for beginners!!!*

This is not meant to be a "do this" sort of post, but its is something to consider-especially for beginers or wanna-be's like me!!

Setting up a Sedan is pretty straight forward once youve tested enough and played around enough. But I have to admit that getting the balance, speed and efficiency out of a 12th scale to be a daunting task at times. Black Magic!!! And add to that-many set-ups require a change in driving style to get the most out of it!!! hence why you can drive the TQ guys 12th scale and think it handles terrible-but he is whicked FAST!!!

But I am slowly learning that a balanced, easy handling 12th scale can also be a slow 12th scale car. And smetimes an edy- fast feeling car can also be slow......Sad, but true. but I digress frm my point of all this and that is-form as many constants as you can as you learn your car. For example-and again this is just me-when in doubt-I always go back to Blue side springs on my Speedmerchant Rev.3 and I always run JACO rears and they are always sauced full for a minimum of 20 minutes!!! Oh-and I always run Losi med hydra fluid in the dampers. Hmmmm... come to think of it-I always run 3 degrees of caster and a slight amount of rear pod droop. These things basically never change.

WHY????-because the center spring, shock oil, front springs and front camber, toe out, ride height, rake, front tire compound, width of sauce on frnt tires, diameter of tires are enough variables!! But very effective variables!!! Learn those first!!!

So in closing for any 12th scale newbies-dont give-up on 12th scale. Just make it as simple for your self as possible!!!! And make your car as easy to drive as you can to start. Also-baby your 12th scale because it is a precision instrument. Take care of it-rebuild it often and also rebuild it EXACTLY the same time after time after time!!! Think of it like this-A 4wd drive car is a hammer and a 12th scale is a scalpel.

Let me give you an example from this week. A newbie in 12th scale was trying to drive his brand new 12th scale. it was SO bad he couldnt even make a corner. problem??? He sauced his front tires 100% and had never driven 12th scale before!!! WOW!!!

Also-those weird things you see the fast guys doing-like making endless circles on the track right and left and playing with there radio buttons 1" from there faces, and putting quarters on top of the front tires till they fall off and constantly resetting the trim on the straights before every race- LEARN-em-DO-em!!!! Its a ritual, its required!!!! ITS FUN!!!


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## Heybales (Oct 30, 2002)

Ray, you are an animal! I've never seen anybody with a better attitude for self improvement. Don't underestimate the importance of driving clean for 8 minutes in 1/12th scale. Give up some speed if it makes you uncomforable on the stand. Practice and experience are what makes you fast in 1/12th scale. You can't just go fast, you have to BE fast. That comes with practice. 

Dana


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## davidl (Jan 7, 2002)

Hello Dana. You made a very good point.


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## davidl (Jan 7, 2002)




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## Guest (Jun 24, 2003)

howdy all...

what is good for gooping up the tires on Pavement?

and what is good for Carpet?

Any suggestions?

Thanks,

Doug


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## davidl (Jan 7, 2002)

Believe it or not, fire, suntan lotion works very well. You should by using purple and pink compounds on pavement. Something around spf 25 is recommended.


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## davidl (Jan 7, 2002)

CMW - this thread has died. Weren't you responsibile to keep it at the top of the board? Ohhhhh my! :freak: 

OKAY - the last active discussion was related to hooking up your 1/12 scale on-road car on pavement. Many of you attended the ROAR Paved On-road Championships in NC. Please come on and tell the crowd how you did in the event, and what techniques you used to gain the traction you were worried about before you went. In other words, let's debrief the race so we can compare the suggestion to the earlier question to the results obtained.


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## Greg Anthony (Sep 10, 2002)

Well, the Nats was my first time running a rev3, so I'm no expert on the spring cars... In fact the CRC car I ran at indoor nats as only a week old, and now I tool a brand new Rev.3 down to NC...here's how I had it set up:

Front:
Old Skool front end with braces
.020" springs
no dampening
slight toe out
1.75" TM gas 35 tires
2 deg caster


Rear:
IRS lowered pod plates
Niftech rear axle
orange side springs
3000wt diff oil for dampening
35wt oil in center shock with silver spring
or 40 wt with gold spring depending of track temp
1.80 TM platnium tires


Compound: Paragon FXII, 1/2 front, full rear
Servo: JR 3550
speedo: GT7
Novak XXL reveiver
KO Mars radio
Team RCV receiver pack (thanks Hank!)
SMC 3300 GP's
Dell Big Block 8x2 (core based local winder)
gearer 96/31 (roll out at 1.82, should of been over 2.00, was way under geared!!!! )

I basically lost 2 qualifiers and the second A-main because the center shock popped off and the chassis was dragging...

Qualified 9th in A-mod, finished 5th

anything else u want to know, just let me know!


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## psycho02 (Mar 27, 2002)

Okay I am a 12th scale newbie, I have been running off-road since 97. I consider myself to be a pretty good driver. Top 10 in the Mars series in stock buggy every year and top 15 in modified buggy. So I know that I have driving ability. I have been described as having a smooth controlled driving style on the dirt tracks here in Michigan. My point is I think that I can transfer my driving ability into 12th scale but I need to learn the technical side of things. Which type of car is easier to set up, A car with a t-plate or a car with springs on the rear pod? Which one will hold the tweak better? What is a good stock motor for 12th scale and then what is a good brush and spring combo to use? What is the optimum tire diameter? and how much should i rely on tire diameter to set ride height? What is a good tire truer for 12th scale tires? It's going to be wierd for me that's for sure I am going to go from being the off-road big-dog in my area to a 12th scale rookie, I am totally fired up about it though. I acatually can't wait for our indoor season to start here.


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## CypressMidWest (Apr 30, 2002)

car: Speedmerchant Rev.3, link (spring) cars are more flexible in terms of set-up, and hold tweak settings better.

Motor: Revenge of the Monster, Advantage brushes, red springs

Tire diameter: I don't really think there's an "ideal" tire diameter, some drivers prefer a car with larger tires, others like small tires. Ride height can be adjusted with shims up front, and the bearing blocks in the back.

tire truer: Ofna and Hudy make excellent truers.


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## Greg Anthony (Sep 10, 2002)

Pshcho, are you west side or east side of MI? where are you going to be racing at?


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## psycho02 (Mar 27, 2002)

Greg Anthony said:


> Pshcho, are you west side or east side of MI? where are you going to be racing at?


I am on the west side of the state in Spring Lake I will probably be running in Grand Rapids and Lansing mostly.

I am not really familiar with advantage brushes who makes them? and where could I pick some up from?


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

Guys,

If you need Speedmerchant parts or kits-I got almost everything for that car!!! Just e-mail me. Carpet season coming up fast too.

Ray
[email protected]


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## davidl (Jan 7, 2002)

CMW - there is a question for you to answer. Who is the person behind Advantage? I have a feeling it is C. Dosek, but I don't know either.


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## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

I think it is Mo Denton?


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

Rich Chang said:


> I think it is Mo Denton?



You WIN!! Good answer!!


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## davidl (Jan 7, 2002)

So is Mo trying to catch up with Dosek?


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## CypressMidWest (Apr 30, 2002)

Mo Denton is the mastermind at Advantage, and his gear is top notch. I have never in my life had more rip than I have as of late. :devil:


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## davidl (Jan 7, 2002)

CMW - I have heard of your recent exploits. They didn't say your had rip, but that your efforts were paying off with some very good runs. I guess you are just being humble. That is a very good virtue. But, be carefull. Your reputation is growing. We don't need to next hear that you have had a Koby episode in a hotel somewhere.  It pleases me to see you are doing so well. :thumbsup:


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## psycho02 (Mar 27, 2002)

So does Mr. Denton have a website that I can find his stuff at or anywhere in particular that he sells it?


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## 1fastguy1 (Apr 30, 2002)

*Advantage R/C*

Hey Guys,
My Website is currently getting set up. Not quite done yet but should be shortly. For any questions e mail;
[email protected]
www.advantagerc.com
thanks
Mo

Davidl- At ultra Racing,Capstone Hobbies, Grandview Hobbies
and several other shops in the Ohio/Michigan area also have stock


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## rayhuang (Sep 26, 2001)

Mo,

my fastest run in Sedan and my fastest run in 12th scale were both with your brushes. In the 12th scale it was slot, narrowed with green springs in a Monster. Car was fast, fast, fast.

Ray


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## CypressMidWest (Apr 30, 2002)

davidl said:


> CMW - I have heard of your recent exploits. They didn't say your had rip, but that your efforts were paying off with some very good runs. I guess you are just being humble. That is a very good virtue. But, be carefull. Your reputation is growing. We don't need to next hear that you have had a Koby episode in a hotel somewhere.  It pleases me to see you are doing so well. :thumbsup:



Yes, A Kobe style encounter would only further tarnish my lackluster image. 

I'm not really being humble, I still can't drive. Advantage Rip just makes it easier to power out of those mistakes. :devil:


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## davidl (Jan 7, 2002)

CMW - you crack me up  :roll:


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## Greg Anthony (Sep 10, 2002)

David, When are you going to change you location here on H.T. to your new location yet?


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## Taz_S (Feb 13, 2002)

so how is ever one doing with thire 12th.


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## Fl Flash (May 1, 2003)

Taz s,
Hey thanks for bringing this thread up I didnt even know about it! Lots of good info in here! I spent that last two hours reading it from the begining, just a little crossed eyed now, LOL. 
Lee,


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## Taz_S (Feb 13, 2002)

Your welcome


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## RKstar (Jan 12, 2004)

anyone know which are the best batteries to run in stock class?


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## CypressMidWest (Apr 30, 2002)

RKstar said:


> anyone know which are the best batteries to run in stock class?


Power Push GP3300's, by far the best cells available.


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## proguy (Nov 7, 2002)

Hey Cypress..you spelled Power Push wrong...it should say S M C , afterall RKstar asked which batteries are best............ for stock :devil:


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## CypressMidWest (Apr 30, 2002)

proguy said:


> Hey Cypress..you spelled Power Push wrong...it should say S M C , afterall RKstar asked which batteries are best............ for stock :devil:



I'm pretty sure THAT GIRL that whipped all our heinies in 12th Stock at the Indoor Champs ran Power Push Cells!! 

SMC batteries are for Oval racing!!!


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## proguy (Nov 7, 2002)

Oval racing....isn't that the class where MORE POWER will win you races :tongue: 

Of coarse, congrats go to both Mr. and Mrs. Blackstock for great performances in Cleveland this year. :thumbsup:


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## CypressMidWest (Apr 30, 2002)

proguy said:


> Oval racing....isn't that the class where MORE POWER will win you races :tongue:
> 
> Of coarse, congrats go to both Mr. and Mrs. Blackstock for great performances in Cleveland this year. :thumbsup:



Actually, Oval is 96% chassis set-up, 2% motor, 1% driver, and 1% battery. Trust me, I've been there, done that.


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## Greg Anthony (Sep 10, 2002)

Ian, how many PP powered cars were in the show? what about c-dan?


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## Rich Chang (Sep 25, 2001)

My Dad is better than your Dad!


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## fleetwood (Oct 11, 2002)

If I'm not mistaken......... A Fukuyama Racing powered 12th scale dominated the entire weekend............... PP - SMC - ABC - 123 - whatever


Take care fellas. C-ya at the Birds if any of you are going.


RB Love


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## CypressMidWest (Apr 30, 2002)

Greggie: Who cares how many were in the c-dan main? That's like asking which brand of car is fastest in the Nascar Goody's Dash series. This is a 12th scale thread, so I assume Rkstar was asking about batteries for real race cars!  

Fleeeetwooooood: Fukuyama cells are good, but I argue that it was the TQ's EXCELLENT driving and WICKED MOTOR building that kept him out front all weekend in qualifying. TQ gets you a small plaque, and the W gets you the big giant trophy. Power Push has been winning in stock FOR YEARS. As a matter of fact I think this was two years in a row if I'm not mistaken.


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## Greg Anthony (Sep 10, 2002)

What about my first question Ian, nice tap dancing arround the real question


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## CypressMidWest (Apr 30, 2002)

Greg Anthony said:


> What about my first question Ian, nice tap dancing arround the real question



Like I said Greggie, Who Cares? I don't care, and therefore don't know. Batteries are of far less importance in Sedan than they are in 1/12th scale. I would assume by your post that there weren't any though.


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## 1fastguy1 (Apr 30, 2002)

Just to clear up a few things the TQ trophy WAS the biggest trophy.
not a plaque. but who cares we all got beat by a girl.lol
Mo


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## CypressMidWest (Apr 30, 2002)

1fastguy1 said:


> Just to clear up a few things the TQ trophy WAS the biggest trophy.
> not a plaque. but who cares we all got beat by a girl.lol
> Mo



Mo you are THA MAN!!! And yess we ALL got beat by a girl!!!


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## Miha (Jan 29, 2004)

Hello,

I am not quite car guy, I am more into boats. I am also not from USA, but nevermind. 

I looked all over the net to find some info about 12th scale RC cars. I need more info to get all started and maybe you can help to save me some time and money.

My electrical and modelling skills are not a problem, far from it, I have 15 years of successful racing behind me. The thing is where I live, we got now 2 permanent outdoor asphalt tracks. Spark was set since this is the second year we race small 1:24 cars in the winter session. I just succeeded mine to setup to run like on rails and FAST - talking almost 20 mph, which is quite a rush to run on 10 to 20 feet course 

So I tought a 1/12 scale car would be a great reflex learning tool in the spring and summer days from time to time. And what is more:

I have much experience with brushless motors and one motor and controller is lying around. It should be a very nice combo for 1/12 car with speeds of 60+ mph. 
It might sound crazy, I read that already a mod motor on 6 cells in 1/12 on asphalt is a rocket. But I know what speed is, I ran boats at almost 100 mph, I am addicted to it! I also want to give the nitro guys some demostration, they are in serpent cars ... from 710 to new 950R. If I can find the traction, I think the small 12th scale should be very close to their performance. 

I have the ability to programm the controller to have spool up time 1, 2 or more seconds to avoid too much tire spinning. And with long gearing it would take away some "punch", if we can say that.

I am particulary thinking of RC12L3 in stock form.. 

My setup would be almost 2 oz lighter motor than regular 05 mod and 6 cells which are 3.5 oz lighter than GP3300 6 cell pack. Controller is about 1 oz heavier than typical controller like GM V12 or LRP Quantum. Servo would be micro digital and also very small receiver and 5 cell 1/3AAA receiver pack. 

Question(s): Would be the weight distribution OK? Do you think running about 4.5 oz lighter car would still be OK for traction or would there be too much difference between low speed traction (very little) and high speed traction (too much)?

Do you think RC102L would be better to cope with the power (same setup, maybe 8 cells then which same weight as 6 cell Sub C cells). Or would RC103L Touring be even better? 

Since there is almost no source of spare parts where I live, what to you suggest me to look after? I am very cautios racer and with racing cars (6 seasons) I didn't braked anything, I know it sound almost too good... 

I also read about treating tires with silicone (grease?) and don't understand that? I should give much traction on the dusty smooth asphalt. If you can give me some other suggestions or help where I can get relatively cheap used Purple fronts and Pink rears I would be very grateful. 


Best wishes and thanks very much for your help!

Miha


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## davidl (Jan 7, 2002)

CypressMidWest said:


> Mo you are THA MAN!!! And yess we ALL got beat by a girl!!!


Guys, she ran in my main and I finished ahead of her :thumbsup:


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## Miha (Jan 29, 2004)

No word on my post?


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## kcobra (Dec 3, 2002)

Can y'all recommend a mild mod motor for 4 cell 1/12th scale racing on a small, tight carpet track? Between the Cameleon 2 and the 17 turn Speed Gem Pro motor, which would y'all recommend? Any better motors out there in the $30 range?


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## rcsilly (Jul 30, 2002)

kcobra said:


> Can y'all recommend a mild mod motor for 4 cell 1/12th scale racing on a small, tight carpet track? Between the Cameleon 2 and the 17 turn Speed Gem Pro motor, which would y'all recommend? Any better motors out there in the $30 range?


 I ran the Reedy 19t quad mag spec motor in mod 1/12th friday night and it worked really well . :thumbsup: 
Bob


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## Taz_S (Feb 13, 2002)

So who going to the nat's in Or in july?


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## Taz_S (Feb 13, 2002)

here is the flyer again For the US pan car chap's

http://www.rctech.net/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=1028166


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## Taz_S (Feb 13, 2002)

Ok we have new date for USPCC May 13 to 15th and the On-road nat's

Speedline Hobbies
Holiday, Florida
727.536.7223
October 6-9, 2005

new sign up for USPCC
http://www.rctech.net/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=1244783


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## dragrace (Aug 1, 2003)

Davidl

I'm ready to go 1/12 racing. I have been running oval and I hate it. Where are you going racing this weekend. 

Steve Dunn


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## fergie (Jan 10, 2004)

dragrace said:


> Davidl
> 
> I'm ready to go 1/12 racing. I have been running oval and I hate it. Where are you going racing this weekend.
> 
> Steve Dunn


Steve, come up and race with us in fort wayne. Doors open at 9am. and racing usually starts at 12:30. Some of us will be racing mod and some stock. Hope to see you soon, Hoss!!! :wave:


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## uspancarchamps (Mar 16, 2004)

Taz_S said:


> Ok we have new date for USPCC May 13 to 15th and the On-road nat's
> 
> Speedline Hobbies
> Holiday, Florida
> ...


As Taz mentioned, we have a new entry form/flyer for the US Pan Car Championships which will be May 13-15. We will also have the official schedule finalized within the next couple weeks as well and that will be posted on the race website which will be listed on the flyer as well. Hope to see many of you strolling down the Riverwalk next May!


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## dragrace (Aug 1, 2003)

I'll be there. Will Ron and Lee be there. I will be at Cincy on Saturday and Ft. Wayne on Sunday. What tires should I run for Stock. Also brand of wheel. It's been a while and I heard Grey and Purple dont work anymore.....

Steve


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## RTolle (Dec 19, 2002)

Hey Guys, how's it going?

Dragrace, Glad to hear your coming down satuday. It's nice to see some new faces now and then. I'm not sure what most of the guys are running in stock but the purple and grey combo should work just fine. In mod I'm running BSR double pink rears and purple fronts at the moment but just about anything works. 

David, are you coming down this saturday. I need to seek revenge on you. I can't allow you to beat me again.

How's Platinum Hobbies? Thinking about going up this Sunday. Is anyone running mod or should I work on my stocker? 

Ryan


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## ~McSmooth~ (Feb 15, 2013)

dragrace said:


> I will be at Cincy on Saturday and Ft. Wayne on Sunday. What tires should I run for Stock. Also brand of wheel. It's been a while and I heard Grey and Purple dont work anymore.....


The Green rears and Blue fronts from Pro-One seem to be a good starting point for most track conditions.

Let me know if you can't find them. I can get you in touch with Pro-One directly, if necessary.


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## Mach10_shooter (Oct 4, 2005)

~McSmooth~, dragrace is Pro-one... That post is from 2004, long before he started that company... I do agree though, green & blue Pro-one's are great!


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