# 2001 Discovery model kit 12" long



## John May (Nov 16, 2004)

Hi all
Well I am going to put out the 2001 Discovery model kit 12" long.
This is one I had sold a long time ago.
But I am now going to resell it again with a little reworked to it. :woohoo:


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

Look forward to seeing/hearing more!


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## PhilipMarlowe (Jan 23, 2004)

I bought one of those from you off @bay years ago, it was a sweet little kit. Hope you're retaining the steel rod in the spine! Here's how mine came out, I'd love to tackle another now that I'm better with an airbrush!

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=167324&highlight=2001+discovery


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## Marco Scheloske (May 16, 2000)

Is this the one that was once sold by Comet Miniatures? Resin hull parts and white metail engines and spine modules?


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## John May (Nov 16, 2004)

Marco Scheloske said:


> Is this the one that was once sold by Comet Miniatures? Resin hull parts and white metail engines and spine modules?


No


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## John May (Nov 16, 2004)

PhilipMarlowe said:


> I bought one of those from you off @bay years ago, it was a sweet little kit. Hope you're retaining the steel rod in the spine! Here's how mine came out, I'd love to tackle another now that I'm better with an airbrush!
> 
> http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=167324&highlight=2001+discovery


Yes I did. :thumbsup:


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

Looking forward to it- I could never afford/have room for the big kits and i would love to have one in my collection!

.


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## Lloyd Collins (Sep 25, 2004)

I want one. It is a size I can find room for.


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

I'm in!


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## Griffworks (Jun 24, 2002)

Same here! 

Plus, I want another one of your _Valley Forge_ kits, as well.


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## starmanmm (Mar 19, 2000)

Looking forward to hearing when it is available also!


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## RMC (Aug 11, 2004)

count me in for one as well.......btw what about a leonov ?


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## John May (Nov 16, 2004)

RMC said:


> count me in for one as well.......btw what about a leonov ?


Boy, that would be small ship of the leonov.


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## Marco Scheloske (May 16, 2000)

John May said:


> No


Why are you irritated? The Comet Miniatures one was also 12" long (I own it), and it looks _*very* _similar to the one shown in the picture above, so I thought they are the same.

I`ld buy another one, because I plan for years to make a slowly spinning 2010-version (using a clockwork on a wallmount to let it rotate...).


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## DX-SFX (Jan 24, 2004)

It depends if the Comet one was a legitimate one or a recast.


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

I should mention an XD-1 resource (shameless plug). 
http://cmk15.proboards92.com/index.cgi

It was a forum originally created for the Captain Cardboard Discovery module kits, but expanded to include any version of the ship from anyone. 

We are collecting reference resources and all that. Full details can be found there. A lot of the board is open, but the reference threads require registration as some of the pix are proprietary and not subject to mass distribution. We only have a few now, but are looking to expand. Stop on by.

And of course, the one and only Atomic City should not be overlooked for resource tips as well. 
http://p197.ezboard.com/batomiccity


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

http://cmk15.proboards92.com/index.cgi
It sounds like a great forum. I have tried to register and it keep rejecting it with this error-

The following errors occurred while attempting to create your account:
It appears that you attempted to register for this forum using the wrong form. Please use the form below to register.

I AM USING THAT FORM!
How can I register there- anybody I can contact to be able to complete the registration? It is hard to register on the provided form and somehow the site is thinking I am using a wrong form- I did not even know you could cross register like that.
HELP


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

Hi Richard, 
I admin the site and haven't seen that error before. I just tried a test registration, got the email confirmation and registered ok.

PM me here and we can go thru the process.

If anyone else has probs, pm here and I will see what i can do.


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## Lloyd Collins (Sep 25, 2004)

For some excellent reference material on the Discovery, get the Spaceship Handbook, by Jack Hagerty and Jon C. Rogers. Most everyone here has it, or know of it. It is still for sale at http://www.arapress.com/ssh.html


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## SpaceMind (Jan 25, 2009)

I am in for two of these. I want to do a 2001 version and a 2010 version.

When do you expect them to be available?

SpaceMind Modeler
modeler.spacemind.com


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## John May (Nov 16, 2004)

SpaceMind said:


> I am in for two of these. I want to do a 2001 version and a 2010 version.
> 
> When do you expect them to be available?
> 
> ...


I am making them up today, and will let you all know when you can order.

Thanks


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## SpaceMind (Jan 25, 2009)

Do you have an estimated price of the kit?


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## Lloyd Collins (Sep 25, 2004)

Why do modelers as the price? If you ask, you can't afford.


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

Because some models you want are expensive and you have to budget around them. If I know a certain model is going to cost 'X', then I may not buy some 'Ys' and save resources. I only have so much disposable income available and I want to focus on the ones that count or may not ba available long. I have not bought a Moebius Seaview yet- I will eventually, but it is going to be available for a while and the $100+ can be used for other models which may not be.

Also sadly some kits are nice but they are priced too high for what you get so while I would like one I have to give one a pass occasionally.

.

.


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## John May (Nov 16, 2004)

SpaceMind said:


> Do you have an estimated price of the kit?


Ok, I have 10 ready to go out the door.
Price is $25.00 + $5.00 s&h how is that for price?
Please email me at [email protected] for paypal invoice, or money order.

Thanks


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## SpaceMind (Jan 25, 2009)

Lloyd Collins said:


> Why do modelers as the price? If you ask, you can't afford.


Ummmm... some model kits are like $250+ So I said I would probably be in for two... if he comes back with $250 as his price, well that means I am in for $500... not too trivial of a price. So I have no clue why you made this statement.



Richard Baker said:


> Because some models you want are expensive and you have to budget around them. If I know a certain model is going to cost 'X', then I may not buy some 'Ys' and save resources. I only have so much disposable income available and I want to focus on the ones that count or may not ba available long. I have not bought a Moebius Seaview yet- I will eventually, but it is going to be available for a while and the $100+ can be used for other models which may not be.
> 
> Also sadly some kits are nice but they are priced too high for what you get so while I would like one I have to give one a pass occasionally.


Exactly.


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## SpaceMind (Jan 25, 2009)

John May said:


> Ok, I have 10 ready to go out the door.
> Price is $25.00 + $5.00 s&h how is that for price?
> Please email me at [email protected] for paypal invoice, or money order.
> 
> Thanks


Awesome! E-mail sent. Thanks John!


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## Griffworks (Jun 24, 2002)

Very reasonable price for the _Discovery_. 

Any idea on when you'll have some of the _Valley Forge_ kits available? Sorry to go slightly off-topic w/the question.


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## Marco Scheloske (May 16, 2000)

DX-SFX said:


> It depends if the Comet one was a legitimate one or a recast.


Well, Chris sold also resin copies from the Comet Mini Metal ships (for example the Viper, Cylon Raider, C-57-D and so on) on his - yet closed - website, so...


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## John May (Nov 16, 2004)

Marco Scheloske said:


> Well, Chris sold also resin copies from the Comet Mini Metal ships (for example the Viper, Cylon Raider, C-57-D and so on) on his - yet closed - website, so...


 
I love you to.


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## DX-SFX (Jan 24, 2004)

Not knowing who anyone is behind the usernames, it's difficult to know who's saying what to who about what.

That's just a statement BTW, not a request for explanation.


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## Marco Scheloske (May 16, 2000)

John May said:


> I love you to.


Did you, or did you not sell those copies?


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## John May (Nov 16, 2004)

Marco Scheloske said:


> Did you, or did you not sell those copies?


personal attacks is not going to help you at all. :woohoo:


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## Lloyd Collins (Sep 25, 2004)

Richard Baker, and SpaceMind, my remarks were a cruel joke. I do that sometimes, for some harmless fun, and to see where the conversation will go. But both of you are right, about bugeting for models. There is a kit coming out that I wanted, but sticker shock killed the purchase.

I ordered a Discovery model this morning. I have always wanted one, but price and size kept it out of reach. Now, I wonder how hard it will be to make a monolith.....


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## Marco Scheloske (May 16, 2000)

John May said:


> personal attacks is not going to help you at all. :woohoo:


I don`t need any help. And that was no attack, just a question.

You know your reputation in the SF modeling world well enough by yourself, Chris.

There`s nothing else to say...


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## John May (Nov 16, 2004)

Marco Scheloske said:


> I don`t need any help. And that was no attack, just a question.
> 
> You know your reputation in the SF modeling world well enough by yourself, Chris.
> 
> There`s nothing else to say...


Ok then, goodbye! :wave:


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## SpaceMind (Jan 25, 2009)

Lloyd Collins said:


> I ordered a Discovery model this morning. I have always wanted one, but price and size kept it out of reach.


I ordered two this morning as well. Can't wait to get them. I have each build and their displays all planned out in my head for both versions 2001 & 2010.


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## Griffworks (Jun 24, 2002)

Curious to know, but for the mostly uneducated among us - me being one of them - what are the differences between the two versions of _Discovery_?


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## John May (Nov 16, 2004)

I am all out of the Discovery kits at this time.
Will have more soon,thanks.


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## John May (Nov 16, 2004)

Griffworks said:


> Curious to know, but for the mostly uneducated among us - me being one of them - what are the differences between the two versions of _Discovery_?


The SFM did a good article on the Discovery kit, in Oct. 1991.
On page 7 and 23.


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## Griffworks (Jun 24, 2002)

Wouldn't it be nice if I owned that issue... Or any issue of that magazine from Back In The Day.

Give a brother a clue?


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

> Curious to know, but for the mostly uneducated among us - me being one of them - what are the differences between the two versions of Discovery?


The ship in 2010 was recreated from film stills and was simplified somewhat since the way it was going to be used on screen did not call for the level of detail from the first movie.
The biggest change was the Command Ball- the emergency entrance hatch was moved to be at right angles to the axis so they could use the connecting bridge between the two ships. IIRC the other changes were differences in the engine section and spine unit proportions.

.


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## Griffworks (Jun 24, 2002)

Thank you for the straight answer, Richard! I appreciate it.


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

Somewhere I have an excellent article which goes into detail about the changes made to both the exterior and interiors. 2010 did an excellent job with the recreation but certain alterations were made for budget and filming reasons.

.


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## DX-SFX (Jan 24, 2004)

The windows of the command sphere were also slightly different.


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## Lloyd Collins (Sep 25, 2004)

Since the Discovery is supposed to be the same ship, in both movies, I will build it as is. 

I never paid THAT much attention to the difference of the ship in both movies. I just watched them. The difference to me was the photography of the two movies, and 2010 looked more like a model, than 2001. 

I guess, since I never needed to, I will have to grab some shots from the DVD, for reference.


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## SpaceMind (Jan 25, 2009)

I will be building both of mine exactly the same as well. The only difference will be the sulphur coating for the 2010 version.


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

As far as I am concerned the 2001 version is the definitive source - the 2010 was close enough for the film's purposes but it a gallant but budgeted fudge.
Regardless of accuracy you do have to admire the ambitious scene of the ship spinning end over end as the astronauts closed in- that part was breathtaking with the cinematography...

.


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## Lloyd Collins (Sep 25, 2004)

Anyone going to try to build any pods? It depends on the size of the "Open the Pod Bay doors, HAL.", as to if I can.


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## SpaceMind (Jan 25, 2009)

I am sure the size is going to be way too small for a Pod.


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## Lloyd Collins (Sep 25, 2004)

If you ever worked with 1/2500 scale models, there is no such thing as too small.


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## SpaceMind (Jan 25, 2009)

LOL... this is true. I would be interested in seeing someone tackle the pod.


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## Lloyd Collins (Sep 25, 2004)

My model was shipped today! I hope HAL don't freak out and delay the delivery time.


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## starmanmm (Mar 19, 2000)

Looking forward to the review.


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## starmanmm (Mar 19, 2000)

double post


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## Marco Scheloske (May 16, 2000)

starmanmm said:


> Looking forward to the review.


I`ld say here is one already: http://www.starshipmodeler.com/other/ps_pred.htm

Interesting, mh?


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## Griffworks (Jun 24, 2002)

Griffworks said:


> Very reasonable price for the _Discovery_.
> 
> Any idea on when you'll have some of the _Valley Forge_ kits available? Sorry to go slightly off-topic w/the question.





John May said:


> I am all out of the Discovery kits at this time.
> Will have more soon,thanks.


Don't guess I could get a response to my query above, could I? Prolly not since I couldn't get a reply to my email about the Discovery kits.....


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## John May (Nov 16, 2004)

Griffworks said:


> Don't guess I could get a response to my query above, could I? Prolly not since I couldn't get a reply to my email about the Discovery kits.....


Sorry Griffworks, I thought I emailed you.
I am working on the Valley Forge to get the girders right.

Thanks


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## Griffworks (Jun 24, 2002)

No, I've gotten no response to my email about the _Discovery_ kits. I guess the point is moot now, tho. 


Re: The _Valley Forge_ - Why don't you just do what you did w/the previous kit that I purchased and use the girder structure parts from Plastruct? They've got the strength/rigidity that you need w/this model, IMNSHO, so are ideal for that versus resin parts.


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## John May (Nov 16, 2004)

Griffworks said:


> No, I've gotten no response to my email about the _Discovery_ kits. I guess the point is moot now, tho.
> 
> 
> Re: The _Valley Forge_ - Why don't you just do what you did w/the previous kit that I purchased and use the girder structure parts from Plastruct? They've got the strength/rigidity that you need w/this model, IMNSHO, so are ideal for that versus resin parts.


Sorry about the email, I can use the plastruct parts right now.
But it is way off of what it looks like.


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## Marco Scheloske (May 16, 2000)

Griffworks said:


> Re: The _Valley Forge_ - Why don't you just do what you did w/the previous kit that I purchased and use the girder structure parts from Plastruct? They've got the strength/rigidity that you need w/this model, IMNSHO, so are ideal for that versus resin parts.


I once got a copy of that kit, too, and it contained resin copies - very, very bad resin copies - of those plastruct girder parts. Completely useless.


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

The Discovery Kit IS a recast!
Compared with the posted by Marco aside from the fact the scale is the same the parts breakdown is totally different.
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e267/RBaker2164/DCFC0045.jpg

If someone has a checkered past in that regard and is never given a second chance to do right then a LOT of garage kit producers would disappear.
Based on your posts Marco I was beginning to have doubts, especially since they mostly went unanswered. Rather than just going by innuendos I waited until the kit arrived. The kit is not a recast but a nicely detailed one with a parts breakdown of 7 pieces- nothing like Comet kit you had linked the review to. 
You apparently have a grudge which is continually popping up in this thread. I do not care about the reason behind it- that is between you two. The one thing I can say is that the Discovery kit you have implied is a Comet recast might have some similarities, but since they are both the same scale and subject that is not a surprise.


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## SpaceMind (Jan 25, 2009)

AWESOME!!!! Just checked my tracking number... looks like my two kits should be delivered today.

Thanks for the post. Glad that is all cleared up and hopefully those types of comments won't continue in this thread.


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## Wbnemo1 (Aug 22, 1999)

Richard Baker,
please check your PM
Will


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## Lloyd Collins (Sep 25, 2004)

I got mine today! Thanks! Looks very detailed, and it will look good, when done.

My idea for a pod can work,but, as small that it is, it will take time to do. I have some plastic BBs that are about 1/4" that should work. Since I have a few of them, I get many tries to make it. If only CMDF existed!

"OOPs! There it goes flying across the room." "I know it fell in the carpet, somewhere?" And, such other mishaps to come.


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

Wbnemo,
Check yours now.

Richard


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## Wbnemo1 (Aug 22, 1999)

received
Will


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## John May (Nov 16, 2004)

Richard Baker said:


> The Discovery Kit is NOT a recast!
> Compared with the posted by Marco aside from the fact the scale is the same the parts breakdown is totally different.
> http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e267/RBaker2164/DCFC0045.jpg
> 
> ...


Thank you Richard !


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## John May (Nov 16, 2004)

Lloyd Collins said:


> I got mine today! Thanks! Looks very detailed, and it will look good, when done.
> 
> My idea for a pod can work,but, as small that it is, it will take time to do. I have some plastic BBs that are about 1/4" that should work. Since I have a few of them, I get many tries to make it. If only CMDF existed!
> 
> "OOPs! There it goes flying across the room." "I know it fell in the carpet, somewhere?" And, such other mishaps to come.


Thank you Lloyd !


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## SpaceMind (Jan 25, 2009)

Got my two kits today as well. Excited to get these built. Thanks John!


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## John May (Nov 16, 2004)

SpaceMind said:


> Got my two kits today as well. Excited to get these built. Thanks John!


Thank You !


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## starmanmm (Mar 19, 2000)

Sounds like to me that we can focus on the kit and nothing else.


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## Marco Scheloske (May 16, 2000)

Richard Baker said:


> The kit is not a recast but a nicely detailed one with a parts breakdown of 7 pieces- nothing like Comet kit you had linked the review to.




For me it looks like just the spine parts have been casted after being glued together - so you have a different parts count than on the other one. And not only the scale and size is similar at this two kits, also the stretched engine section looks to be the same. Just a coincidence?

Give me a side-by-side comparison, then I`ll be convinced.



Richard Baker said:


> if someone has a checkered past in that regard and is never given a second chance to do right then a LOT of garage kit producers would disappear.


Indeed. But should someone not stop to sell recasts then when he wants to make a new start?

"John" is still selling well known recasts at ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Battlestar-Galatica-Galatica-3-Long-Model-Kit_W0QQitemZ250373987123QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item250373987123&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2%7C65%3A13%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

http://cgi.ebay.com/Fantastic-Voyag...911.c0.m14&_trkparms=66:2|65:13|39:1|240:1318

http://cgi.ebay.com/The-Day-The-Ear...911.c0.m14&_trkparms=66:2|65:13|39:1|240:1318

http://cgi.ebay.com/Battlestar-Gala...911.c0.m14&_trkparms=66:2|65:13|39:1|240:1318

All of those were once Comet mini metals...


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## John May (Nov 16, 2004)

Marco Scheloske said:


> For me it looks like just the spine parts have been casted after being glued together - so you have a different parts count than on the other one. And not only the scale and size is similar at this two kits, also the stretched engine section looks to be the same. Just a coincidence?
> 
> Give me a side-by-side comparison, then I`ll be convinced.
> 
> ...


:wave:


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

On the Starship Modeler forums the accusation of recast surfaces occasionally. There are ways to determine if a particular model is a recast of an existing model_ besides _association and hearsay
For me there are three determining factors for proving recast-
1.- Parts breakdown comparison- if a model has the same number of parts or the way it is divided into sections is matched.
2,- Detail matching- if the model parts or chip placement is matched. The details on the Comet kit cannot be seen with the photos available. Somebody provide a high res photo of the engine section of a verified Comet kit and a side-by-side comparison can be made.
3. Detail blurring- A recast is produced from a mold of the original kit- loss of detail and soft/incomplete details is a sign.

Proving a negative is impossible.
Proving a positive can be done.

----------------------------------------------
BTW- John/Chris- your responses to this charge with taunting emoticons and coy dismissals is *NOT* helping your case. It does in fact help the other side. 
----------------------------------------------

MiniModelMadness was a known recaster. He was considered beneath comtempt for that reason. He did turn the corner and began to release kits that were not recasts- Alfred Wong mastered the some of the new ones like the Draconia. That one I bought.

I obviously do not know the full history of the parties involved and their work together. The other items that have been sold may be established as recasts but I have not seen them in person or any side-by-side comparisons. I am judging by the product I am holding in my hand. If it can be proven as a recast I will change my opinion. Right now all there is for that argument is that it "most likely" a recast and a bunch of venom. Anger and association with past works is not proof. If somebody has actual proof along the lines of the three criteria I used (above) I will give it due consideration. Until then it is just a kit which is being sold. 
I am not going to be an advocate or point man in defending a person and his work. I just made a judgment of the kit received. If proven otherwise I may change that opinion. Until then it is the accuser's job to prove the case, not mine to defend. PM's and phone calls will not help- if it can be said to me privately then it can be posted in this forum as well. I do not care if you hate his guts and feel strongly about his selling a kit ever again. I do not know him or you and if you have evidence then just post it.

end of line


.


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## SpaceMind (Jan 25, 2009)

+1

Well said Richard.


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## Jaruemalak (Jun 12, 2008)

No idea about recasts or anything else here. All I know is I received my kit two days ago and it is beautiful. Can't wait to get to work on it.

Thanks!


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## SpaceMind (Jan 25, 2009)

I completed my 2010 version last night. The only thing left is creating a stand.

I have custom acrylic cases on the way for both the 2001 and 2010 versions. The artwork for both bases are already done and I will be printing those as soon as the cases show up. Want to make sure everything is good to go with measurements of the cases before I go doing all of that work.

Now onto the 2001 version!


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

Photos?

.


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## SpaceMind (Jan 25, 2009)

Richard Baker said:


> Photos?


I'll be posting some up soon.


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

Clipped:


Richard Baker said:


> ----------------------------------------------
> BTW- John/Chris- your responses to this charge with taunting emoticons and coy dismissals is *NOT* helping your case. It does in fact help the other side.
> ----------------------------------------------
> 
> ...


I'd just like to get this straight. John May, Chris Larson, Mini-Model-Madness and ebay's gwl2817 are all the same person? 

I have been advocating my exceptional happiness with the Larson/MMM Galileo accuratization kit I bought two years ago as detailed in my Galileo Build thread here and have never heard of any of this apparent controversy before now. 

I stand by the statements I made as to the quality of that kit, but am now shown to be an ignorant ass on this point. Not that I'm not an ignorant ass in general, but I am an ignorant ass who would like to know the full story. I got the gist from Richard's post (thanks). 

We've more than adequately heard the rant against. John/Chris/MMM/gwl please, as Richard suggested, knock off the emoticons and clarify the situation. Thank you. 

Aside -While the Gal kit was exceptional, I also bought a K-7 back then and the quality of that was avg/poor. Is that a recast hanging from my ceiling?

P.S. The virulence of some of these posts is over the top. Even if person's here suffered direct financial harm, please relax. Rational conversation serves all parties best.

P.P.S. A reformed individual should be shown acceptance. That whole 'innocent until proven guilty' thing our entire nation's justice system is (supposedly) predicated upon? Bitter acrimony over minutia borders on psychotic ranting.

P.P.P.S. A further show of my ignorance is that I thought all recasters lived in Asia and stuck to the anime genre. Hope that doesn't make me racist! 

P.P.P.P.S. It sucks that a thread about the Discovery (of all the ships/films I love the most) has degenerated into this.


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## John May (Nov 16, 2004)

Model Man said:


> Clipped:
> 
> 
> I'd just like to get this straight. John May, Chris Larson, Mini-Model-Madness and ebay's gwl2817 are all the same person?
> ...


Well lets see here, MMM is no more so there is ebay.
John May was an old frind for 30 years that past in 2003.
So I keep his memory.
I will have a new web site soon or sooner !
The thing is, its fun to see how this judge Judy thing plays out.


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

I brought up the MiniModelMadness site only as an example of how a vilified recaster can reform, offer new products from commissioned masters and 'turn the corner'.
I never meant to Imply a connection between MMM & this thread's issue.

It is rumored that MMM will be returning in some form in the near future so it will be interesting to see how that turns out.

Recasting is a sore topic which divides the modeling community, Some will buy anything despite it's heritage, others will boycott any association with a known recaster. I am an artist who has work stolen and copies sold as new work so I do have strong feelings about this subject. I also have a feeling that a person's current work rather than history should be a factor. As i had mentioned in an earlier post, the criteria for determining is a kit is recast or not is important, not sarcasm and toxic posts. 
John/Chris has done some excellent work and is prompt in shipping a good model at a reasonable cost. I may get his WotW remote sensor later with another build (this one lighted) but I am happy the venom spewed in this thread has not discouraged him from continuing.


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## John May (Nov 16, 2004)

Please keep in mind, that this will not stop those that start issues up.

Thanks


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## starmanmm (Mar 19, 2000)

Me... I'm fine with what has been discussed here for I feel what is being offered here is not a recast... end of the story for me.

Now to move on to the kit.....

SpaceMind wrote:


> I completed my 2010 version last night.


What did you do to it to make it a 2010 version?


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## John May (Nov 16, 2004)

Ok, who wants a 2010 (Alexei Leonov) ship to go with the Discovery?
Let me know so I can see if there is enough people to make the master.
Also I will need a lot of reference to make it look good, so help meeeeee.

Thanks :wave:


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

I think a Leonov would be fun in the same scale. I have the 'Art of 2010' book at the house and can in some pages for you- IIRC it also had Syd Mead's original drawing also.

.


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## John May (Nov 16, 2004)

Richard Baker said:


> I think a Leonov would be fun in the same scale. I have the 'Art of 2010' book at the house and can in some pages for you- IIRC it also had Syd Mead's original drawing also.
> 
> .


Cool, I will be happy for what you can help me with.
Yes, it will be in scale to it.

Thanks Richard


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## SpaceMind (Jan 25, 2009)

starmanmm said:


> What did you do to it to make it a 2010 version?


Nothing different to the model. Just the paint scheme. I painted as it is in 2010 with it being sulphur coated.




John May said:


> Ok, who wants a 2010 (Alexei Leonov) ship to go with the Discovery?
> Let me know so I can see if there is enough people to make the master.
> Also I will need a lot of reference to make it look good, so help meeeeee.


I am definitely in for one!!!! That would be awesome. I could connect the Leonov to my 2010 version Discovery with the docking arm. How kick ass would that be?

I will help out any way I can. Looks like there is a good resource who already posted though.


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## lunadude (Oct 21, 2006)

Model Man said:


> ...I'd just like to get this straight. John May, Chris Larson, Mini-Model-Madness and ebay's gwl2817 are all the same person?...


Here is what I know...

I had some email with gwl2817 (a woman named, Gail), after I bought a MMM Nebuchadnezzar kit from ebay. It was riddled with bubbles, and I asked her about the kit quality. She said she bought the kits from the maker and was reselling them.


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## John May (Nov 16, 2004)

lunadude said:


> Here is what I know...
> 
> I had some email with gwl2817 (a woman named, Gail), after I bought a MMM Nebuchadnezzar kit from ebay. It was riddled with bubbles, and I asked her about the kit quality. She said she bought the kits from the maker and was reselling them.


Gail is the one that sells my stuff on ebay, not the maker!
But I know if you had a problem Gail would have given you a refund !


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## lunadude (Oct 21, 2006)

John May said:


> Gail is the one that sells my stuff on ebay, not the maker!
> But I know if you had a problem Gail would have given you a refund !


Understood. She did offer a refund (great customer service), but as nobody else makes this kit, I chose to keep it.


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## Griffworks (Jun 24, 2002)

Got mine in the mail the other day. Nicely cast kit! Minimal clean up on this kit, tho I've admittedly not shot any primer on it yet. 

I have to admit that I've gotten a few kits that were less than stellar in their casting. However, they've not been so bad that I couldn't clean them up to make them more presentable. I've certainly never received anything as bad as you used to get in the "old days" of resin GKMer's!




John May said:


> Ok, who wants a 2010 (Alexei Leonov) ship to go with the Discovery?
> Let me know so I can see if there is enough people to make the master.
> Also I will need a lot of reference to make it look good, so help meeeeee.
> 
> Thanks :wave:


I'd love a _Leonov_ in a similar scale/size.


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

It is easy to get spoiled these days. The last kit I got which was disappointing in casting was from Alliance (TOS Shuttle). Note real bad, but as I was cleaning it up and muttering I suddenly realized how easy things have gotten.
I do like the way this Discovery kit is made- the spine support covered in detail slips into the Command Sphere and Engine Block, just well thought out without compromising sale detail. I wanted a replica of the Discovery for years but always thought it was impossible- watching the other kits fill rooms and deplete banking accounts, this particular model is a great choice.

.


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## Lloyd Collins (Sep 25, 2004)

I too, would like a Leonov to go with the Discovery. I have the issue of Cinefex, with behind the scenes of 2010, if you want some scans.


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## John May (Nov 16, 2004)

Lloyd Collins said:


> I too, would like a Leonov to go with the Discovery. I have the issue of Cinefex, with behind the scenes of 2010, if you want some scans.


Please, what ever you all have for reference would be so kind.

Thanks :thumbsup:


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

I dug out the 'Making of' book and it does not have as many Leonov exterior shots as I remembered- it could have been the Cinefex pages I was remembering. I will scan in what I have and send it to you Friday- same eMail address as the PayPal one? If not PM me with the one you want to use...

.


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## Marco Scheloske (May 16, 2000)

Richard Baker said:


> I brought up the MiniModelMadness site only as an example of how a vilified recaster can reform, offer new products from commissioned masters and 'turn the corner'.
> I never meant to Imply a connection between MMM & this thread's issue.


Just to clear this up:

"John May" IS Chris Larson IS (was) MMM.


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## Griffworks (Jun 24, 2002)

This was already "cleared up" about 24 hours ago when Model Man asked the question and John May/Chris _answered the question himself_. So, he's said "yeah, I'm Chris Lasrson, but gwl2817 is someone else" - presumably his wife. Not sure why it is that this needs to be re-addresssed - _again_....



Model Man said:


> I'd just like to get this straight. John May, Chris Larson, Mini-Model-Madness and ebay's gwl2817 are all the same person?
> 
> *>SNIP!<*
> 
> We've more than adequately heard the rant against. John/Chris/MMM/gwl please, as Richard suggested, knock off the emoticons and clarify the situation. Thank you.





John May said:


> Well lets see here, MMM is no more so there is ebay.
> John May was an old frind for 30 years that past in 2003.
> So I keep his memory.


So, now that this has been clarified three times, let's get this thread back to talking about the models and not the person. Feel free to start a whole new thread about the person and your thoughts, but keep them out of this one from this point on.


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

I'd certainly like to see an in-box review, some parts pix. 
Thanks.


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

Parts image as posted earlier-
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e267/RBaker2164/DCFC0045.jpg
I took that with cheap work camera - I will take a better one tonight if somebody else does not do it first.
A quick review-
Crisp detail especially on the Engine Moduls & engine 'bells'
Spine has some minor flash but it is easy to clean up. The spine is cast over a brass rod support which connects to the Command Ball & Engine Module- almost snap together with th efit.
The Command ball is the only casting issue but a little putty and sone sanding and it is good to go.
The Antenna farm is a single piece with good detail


This kit has been proven to be a recast-
(If you have no problem with that it is a good nag for the buck).

.


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## SpaceMind (Jan 25, 2009)

John May said:


> Ok, who wants a 2010 (Alexei Leonov) ship to go with the Discovery?
> Let me know so I can see if there is enough people to make the master.
> Also I will need a lot of reference to make it look good, so help meeeeee.


Hey John,

Would you mind starting a new Leonov thread? We can better determine who wants one of those and post all the reference material in that thread and keep this one Based on the Discovery.

Also, if anyone needs a place to host the reference material just let me know. I can upload it to my web site.


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## PhilipMarlowe (Jan 23, 2004)

You can put me down for a _Leonov_!


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

The whole Discovery is a recast issue came up again onthe StarshipModeler inthe New Item forum thread Spacemind started. I am tired of this and want to settle it before it poisens the next project. Below is my resonse. If ANYBODY can take better pictures of this kit then PLEASE post them bother here and on that forum. I did my best but detail matching is the ONLY way this is going to be setled. There are enough kits out there that a good reference for comaprison can be made.

SSM Thread-
http://www.starshipmodeler.net/talk/viewtopic.php?t=70647
====================================



> No one posted clearer pics till yet (although I asked for some).


Actually you never did ask for any- but since you are asking now-
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e267/RBaker2164/S5030038.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e267/RBaker2164/S5030039.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e267/RBaker2164/S5030040.jpg
That is the best my current camera can focus to- maybe someone else with a kit can do better. The detail on the engine section should be a determiner. If the chips match your Comet version then we have a match.
I do not care about MMM's history- he was commissioning masters from Alfred Wong towards the end and the Leonov is going to be a new one from material being gathered now. 
I know what starts in one forum should not travel to this one but this was a new kit announcement and you chose to bring up the recasting issue of the Discovery kit. I am well aware how some people in the modelling community hate Chris with a passion and dismiss anything he produces because of the pat recasting issue. I am not here to debate the history of him or MMM- this is about a new kit. Since you brought up the Discovery issue here I have provided better images than my old work camera could. I am sorry they are not perfectly clear but the model parts are VERY small. Take some pictures of the matching parts on the Comet model and post them- lets all compare and judge for our selves. NOT what he has done, but what he is doing now. 
If you don't want to but a Leonov kit- fine. If you never want to do business with Chris that is your choice. All I know is that towards the end of MMM he was commissioning new masters from Alfred and those I bought. The Leonov kit is a brand new kit which has never been made in matching scale to the 12" Discovery and it is a NEW kit, not a recast. Regardless of how you feel, do not attempt to kill this new kit just because you do not like the guy.


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

Based on the photos provided by Marco on the Leonov thread I must declare that the Discovery kit in question IS a recast of the Comet kit. I have changed my declaration on page 5 of this thread to reflect this.

I feel used by John/Chriss who knew the truth and allowed me to defend him regarding this. Because of this I am withdrawing all support for the Leonov kit project and will not do business with him in the future.
I was giving him the benifit of the doubt based on his 'turning the corner' with the new Alfred Wong masters and was mad that every new project would be considered tainted due to past history. I was wrong. The Discovery kit in question does meet the detail matching criteria of determining a recast. There is know way a similar scale ship would have idential donor parts and chip detail in exactly the same locations as shown.
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t250/Callamon/Engineangleboth.jpg 

I resent being used and now consider the issue resolved. The kit is a recast.

.


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## Wbnemo1 (Aug 22, 1999)

I don't necessarly agree this is a recast, at least not by this photo comparison, I think I see many differences in details and basic contours, but the blurry thing has got to be resolved in order to make a fair comparison in my opinion. Everyone pretty much nows how detail oriented I am anyway..so lets see some clear images before drawing any kind of conclusion.
Will


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

I held the _actual kit part_ in my hand and compared to the photo Marco provided- the tiny chips and greebly are identical.

I hate it more than anybody at this point- I spoke up first that it was not a recast and defended it in multiple forums. 
Anybody with one of these kits in hand can look at it and see what I am describing.

I could take a better picture of it and post but right now I am still mad as hell about this whole issue. The kit is boxed up and will be sent to a friend who does not care at all about it's origins. I do not want the thing around.

Go ahead and buy one if you want- just remember it was I who first declared it was not a recast, proof was eventually offered and there is no question in my mind now that is a recast.

I gave John/Chris the benifit of a doubt and spoke repeatedly defending him while he knew the true story behind it. 

I do not care how people feel about the recasting of kits- that is not an issue. If you really want this kit then by all means get one. If you need to rationalize it knock your self out- it really does not matter. I am the one who needed to be convinced more than anybody about this and now I am. There is no freakin way every chip .001"x.001" ans smaller would be duplicated in size and position if the kit was independently mastered. Every hair-like piping, all the tiny louvered panels, EVERYTHING is matched perfectly.

The Discovery kit being offered is a recast kit.


end-of-line


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## Wbnemo1 (Aug 22, 1999)

ok,
Well I know when I worked with Chris there was never a true master. When I came on board it was an item already sold through Lunar models and CS Hobbies. I also helped remold it a few times and know the casting process for the piece quite well, though i recall cutting steel rod for them. I never questioned it as I knew Tim L was a great pattern maker as well as Tracy B, both could have mastered it easily, I mistakingly assumed they did. Honestly, I knew nothing of the Comet Miniatures version til now and that's why I questioned it. Tracy came by a few days ago and I asked him about it and he stated he didn't pattern it and that it may be the Comet Miniatures piece. I was not able to contact Tim L, hope he's ok out there, I know he took several direct hits from those hurricanes and lost quite a bit, if not everything. Anyway, I wasn't aware that you were able to get a hands on comparison of the piece. If Chris would just stop the Comet repops, he's got some really nice legit models he can sell...ohh and I talked to Tom who sculpted the Stone Hendge, he thinks Chris paid him for that, so as far as he's concerend it's Chris's do do as he pleases. Sorry to hear this is really a recast, I always meant to cast one up for me, but never had the time.
Will


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## SpaceMind (Jan 25, 2009)

*I AM NOT CONVINCED*

Here is the side by side comparison and I have compared several sections and the detail is clearly NOT even present. If it was a recast there would be the slightest bit of detail in those sections. However, there is NO detail in the sections I have pointed out.

Take a look again:

http://modeler.spacemind.com/images/misc/Engineangleboth_sm.jpg


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## Wbnemo1 (Aug 22, 1999)

it could be a bottom view verses top view comparison which would explain the missing details
Will


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

SpaceMind said:


> http://modeler.spacemind.com/images/misc/Engineangleboth_sm.jpg


Whatever those two things are, they are *different*. 
... but please confirm: what models are we looking at in these photos?


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

Here are some additional photos of the part in question. I am photographing white on white with no washes so things will look different. I did run them through Photoshop to improve contrast and edge detail.
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e267/RBaker2164/Crop-1.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e267/RBaker2164/Crop-2.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e267/RBaker2164/Crop-3.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e267/RBaker2164/Crop-4.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e267/RBaker2164/Crop-5.jpg
The model is now in the postal service heading to it's new owner. 10 of these kits were cast and sold so any one of those buyers with one can hold it up and squint to see the detail better.
Frankly at this point I do not care whether anybody is convinced or not- I am totally through with this whole issue. I spoke up for John/Chris when nobody else did- accusations were being leveled and he never did address those with anything but a taunting emoticon and flippant dismissals. When Marco posted the images from his built Comet kit I was able to compare. I did not want to find what I did. Anybody who has bought one of these kits can do it themselves.

The kit I had bought is off to another builder to enjoy. I am though with this whole issue and I am moving on.


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## SpaceMind (Jan 25, 2009)

Sigh.... very disappointing. Thanks for your effort Richard.


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## Dr. Brad (Oct 5, 1999)

I was wondering about this! Guess it's more or less settled. Thanks Richard.


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

I truly wish it did not turn out this way. There is supposed to be a 1/144 kit in the works- perhaps I can afford one of those.

.


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