# Illiteracy runs rampant at Round 2



## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

While perusing the CultTVman blog reports on the latest offerings from Round 2, I discovered this photo of an upcoming kit release for 2011:

http://culttvman.com/main/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/ihobby2010-r207.jpg

Evidently, good spelling is not a prerequisite for a job at Round 2, especially if you are involved in creating decals and box art for model kits. 

Perhaps the reason why we are not getting a 1/350 scale kit of the original series _Enterprise_ is because they first have to learn how to spell it correctly.

By the way, the glowing ship in _The Tholian Web_ was not the _Enterprise_, but the _Defiant_, as per this photo:

http://culttvman.com/main/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/ihobby2010-r206.jpg

Anyway, I look forward to the re-releases of more classic AMT _Star Trek_ kits, but I am extremely disappointed that there was no mention of the 1/350 original TV ship kit. Perhaps it will be released for the 50th anniversary in 2016, when kit tooling costs will be "far less expensive" than they are today, and there will be far fewer of us old timers around to enjoy it.


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## Opus Penguin (Apr 19, 2004)

Well it could be the Enteprise oops I mean Enterprise, since the Enterprise was caught in the Tholian web. Looks like the kit my just be a reissue of the original AMT kit but include a small Tholian ship. I also agree I would have liked to see the 1/350 Enterprise, but I guess this confirms it won't be done. I am very disappointed, but not surprised.


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

Opus Penguin said:


> Well it could be the Enteprise oops I mean Enterprise, since the Enterprise was caught in the Tholian web. Looks like the kit my just be a reissue of the original AMT kit but include a small Tholian ship. I also agree I would have liked to see the 1/350 Enterprise, but I guess this confirms it won't be done. I am very disappointed, but not surprised.


I wouldn't count on a Tholian ship, that would require tham to do ACTUAL tooling!


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## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

Could this kit reissue just be molded in glow in the dark plastic? Even so it's a scrapping-the-bottom-of-the-barrel idea.


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## Kit (Jul 9, 2009)

I posted a pretty bitter rant on the 'iHobby report from CultTVman' thread in the modeling forum, which I won't repeat here. But this helps to confirm my belief that new genre kit tooling is not in the cards from Round 2, and especially not a new, big kit. They'll sit on the license and the idea for a big TOS E so nobody else does it, though, while they treat us like idiots, sucking a few extra bucks out of no-investment products with chintzy parlor tricks like glow, trying to convince us tired old kits are fresh.


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## HabuHunter32 (Aug 22, 2009)

In this tight economy the proof reader was the first to be let go ! :tongue:


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## Magesblood (May 12, 2008)

as much as it pains me to say it, I'm starting to agree with the sentiments above for the simple fact that there are dozens of more worthy subjects to be kitted and they turn around and release something that could be done - AT HOME with an EXISTING KIT with paints available at the craft store or on-line.

How's that Akira coming or maybe another federation ship?


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

I was going to get a Batmobile and Captain America, but seeing the rest of their "lineup" for next year I have decided Round 2 will not get any of my money! I will be very content with my big Hot Wheels Batmobile on the shelf. Moebius and Pegasus will be getting ALL of my money! Sorry Round 2, but you are bringing the negative on yourself!


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## Seashark (Mar 28, 2006)

I guess I'll offer a bit of a dissenting opinion here. 

While I quite agree that there is no excuse for misspellings, I cannot say that having a glow kit is a bad idea; at least it offers something unique with regards to the kit, rather than just a different color of styrene or a tin “collectors” box. (Yes, I am aware that technically a 'glow' kit _is_ a different color of styrene.)

I only wish Round 2 would have made the 1/1000 a glow kit, I really cannot stand that old AMT mold. However, I will not pass up the opportunity of having a glow Enterprise (or Defiant), so I _will_ be picking up a glow kit of both the E and the General Lee.

Having said that, I too would really like to see Round 2 release something _new_.


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## Atemylunch (Jan 16, 2006)

Back in the old days the color kit you got was part of the fun. 
They would use anything they had left over, for years I thought the D7 was blue because that was the color of the model. Later on I found a fake wood grain D7. 

These days there isn't any excuse for bad spelling, especially with spell check. 
They must be using a really cheap graphics program, or Chinese graphic artists(doesn't that amount to about the same thing).:lol:


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## irishtrek (Sep 17, 2005)

Maybe they will add a Thoilan ship in the kit AND have the big E molded in glow in the dark styrene. And if so a question does pop into my head, will the glow be green or a greyish white?:tongue:
As for the negative comments regarding R2 all I have to say is hey Round2 why not an update about the 350 SOT E. Oh and also patience people paticence


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## JGG1701 (Nov 9, 2004)

irishtrek said:


> And if so a question does pop into my head, will the glow be green or a greyish white?:tongue:


Probably be like the "glow plastic" in the Interplanetary UFO kit.
-Jim


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## ClubTepes (Jul 31, 2002)

Trek Ace said:


> While perusing the CultTVman blog reports on the latest offerings from Round 2, I discovered this photo of an upcoming kit release for 2011:
> 
> http://culttvman.com/main/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/ihobby2010-r207.jpg
> 
> ...


Now now, be nice.

Believe it or not, there were misspellings on boxes in the AMT/Ertl days.
My CUY-AWAY Enterprise is an example.

And expressing your disappointment at no 'official' 1/350 E in the manner you have doesn't help things. There are plenty of people at R2 who really do want to do that project. But it has to be green lit from up stairs.
Rather than complaining here, how about writing a letter and dropping it in the mail to Tom Lowe at R2 and express to him how much you'd like to see that kit.


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## ClubTepes (Jul 31, 2002)

Kit said:


> I posted a pretty bitter rant on the 'iHobby report from CultTVman' thread in the modeling forum, which I won't repeat here. But this helps to confirm my belief that new genre kit tooling is not in the cards from Round 2, and especially not a new, big kit. They'll sit on the license and the idea for a big TOS E so nobody else does it, though, while they treat us like idiots, sucking a few extra bucks out of no-investment products with chintzy parlor tricks like glow, trying to convince us tired old kits are fresh.


If I was a kit producer, its stuff like this that would make me say 'screw them' and not do it because the customers don't deserve it.


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## JGG1701 (Nov 9, 2004)

Please calm down guys.
Lets not turn this thread into something that its not.
M'kay???
-Jim


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## Magesblood (May 12, 2008)

we do kind of owe them for releasing some kits that if they hadn't, we'd still be paying $150 on evilbay for.

Still, in this era of chellspeck, no one should be misspelling "Enterprise"


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## goodtexan (Dec 31, 2009)

Maybe these problem are due to outsourcing everything to Communist China?


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

ClubTepes said:


> Now now, be nice.
> 
> Believe it or not, there were misspellings on boxes in the AMT/Ertl days.
> My CUY-AWAY Enterprise is an example.
> ...


I _was_ being nice. Hence the "" included in the post.

I _have_ actually written a letter to the company - _and_ filled out the questionnaire - _and_ posted in their blog - _and_ emailed them...



ClubTepes said:


> If I was a kit producer, its stuff like this that would make me say 'screw them' and not do it because the customers don't deserve it.


If I were a kit producer, I would be damn-well sure that I followed through with the release of a kit that I officially announced. Otherwise, if my skin wasn't thick enough to take some honest criticism about a desired product that so many modelers _want_ to buy from me, and my attitude was indeed 'screw them', then I shouldn't be _in_ business, and wouldn't be for long.


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## fluke (Feb 27, 2001)

*I could not have said it better than my self. You sir are Ok with me ...I don't care what they say about you in High security wing ward A :tongue:

Don't they know that a 1/350th TOS Enterprise will sell like crazy? There are plenty of fans out there that will see this that on the shelf and freak out. I don't get it.....WE DESERVE A TOS ENTERPRISE IN A DECENT SIZE! *




RSN said:


> I was going to get a Batmobile and Captain America, but seeing the rest of their "lineup" for next year I have decided Round 2 will not get any of my money! I will be very content with my big Hot Wheels Batmobile on the shelf. Moebius and Pegasus will be getting ALL of my money! Sorry Round 2, but you are bringing the negative on yourself!


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## HabuHunter32 (Aug 22, 2009)

RSN said:


> I wouldn't count on a Tholian ship, that would require tham to do ACTUAL tooling!


Perhaps they will throw in a small block of styreen or balsa and we'll have to whittle one for ourselves like some of the kis from the 50's Lol !


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## Tomtom (Jun 10, 2009)

C'mon guys,R2 knows how to spell. They just want an instant collector item box for all of you to buy.
Kinda like the Eidai V-2 Garman Missile,the Nutilus submarine,fron a japanese company,and others we all know and love.
Tom


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## kenlee (Feb 11, 2010)

Tomtom said:


> C'mon guys,R2 knows how to spell. They just want an instant collector item box for all of you to buy.
> Kinda like the Eidai V-2 Garman Missile,the Nutilus submarine,fron a japanese company,and others we all know and love.
> Tom


I think the problem lies in where these products are made, translating from Chinese into English sometimes results in humorous errors. I work on Sharp copiers and the parts and service manuals come from China where they are translated from Japanese into Chinese and then into English, French, German or whatever language is required. In the early manuals there were some parts were listed as complete units, with a "UNT" prefix another letter was added before the "UNT" to designate the type of device it fit. Logically since it was a copier part a "C" was placed in front of the "UNT". Needless to say, this caused a few grins and giggles when calling up and ordering a copier unit part. The "C" was soon changed to a "D" when it got back to Japan what the part prefix code meant in English.


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## irishtrek (Sep 17, 2005)

Yes the kits from R2 are molded in China but what about the box art? Where is that printed onto the boxes?
And like some one else has stated on here there were alos misspelling done by RC2 when they were doing the Trek kits. Things like getting the scale WRONG on a couple of the kits over the years. And the biggest mistake as far as I'm concerned any way is labeling the AMt TOS 18" kit of the 1701 as 1/650 when in fact if you do the math It IS CLOSER to 1/630.


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## Seashark (Mar 28, 2006)

There's a big difference between getting the scale or spelling wrong on the _box_ and misspelling on the _decals_. One effects the use-ability of the kit, the other does not.


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## Kit (Jul 9, 2009)

ClubTepes said:


> If I was a kit producer, its stuff like this that would make me say 'screw them' and not do it because the customers don't deserve it.


There may be plenty of people at Round 2 who want to do the big E, but dollars to donuts not one pf those passionate advocates has authority to greenlight a tooling investment like that. It would amaze me if serious money has even been invested in development of that kit.

If you think only praise will move the mountain, kiss up as much as you like. I'd rather state the obvious, which is that a really exciting product was announced, and nothing we do here or behind the scenes will shake loose an official admission fo what appears to be true -- the company doesn't want to invest in it -- and by the company, I mean the folks in charge. My best guess for why the company won't confirm its unwillingness to pursue the project is that it doesn't want anyone else competing for the dollar you and I might spend on a Trek kit, so it'll let the idea twist in the wind while years tick by.

My opinion is that the repeated use of gimmicks like tin packaging on the umpteenth release of a '60s kit is pretty cynical. I may not know what it takes to put out a mass market model kit, but I know when I've been insulted. And I don't mean the typo is insulting -- I think that's a sign that the people doing the work are being driven so hard, kept so busy with the products that are being released, that mistakes are happening. That's only human, and I remember behind-the-scenes anecdotes about how people who worked for the original Polar Lights were also driven pretty hard by the same boss. I respect how hard the guys work. But the company, from the top down, is not being respectful in return.

Are the same folks pushing unsuccessfully for the 1/350 Enterprise the ones who thought figures should be included in only the second release of the new Batmobile, or that a green-schemed box would freshen up the release of the 18" E? I hope not.

Your statement that my honest opinion will make someone decide customers like me don't deserve an exciting product is less than meaningless, except to underscore the importance of stating the obvious.


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## spindrift (Apr 16, 2005)

Isn't the GLOW Enterprise kit in a tin, too? Doesn't matter, this is reaching and a desperation move. ALMOST falls under a slap-in-the-face to fans who want the big 1/350 E...think about it!
That has to be the LAMEST release I've seen in a long time. Hope they sell 12 or 15 kits of that...the second edition E tin gathers dust everywhere it's being sold.

That being said, the tin Batmobile with supposedly etch parts and all the variations excites me. It's a good move in my opinion. The ONLY kit announced that fits a tin treatment.

The Klingon ship will only be available in a tin, am I reading wrong?
Gary


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## Dr. Brad (Oct 5, 1999)

Strangely, I might actually buy one of those stupid glow in the dark Enterprises. And yet, I agree, it does seem like R2 is reaching a bit with that release. I suppose we might not think that if they'd also announced something other than repops. BUT, that said, I don't know what's going on behind the scenes, so I'm not going to throw Jamie under the bus, who's a straight-up guy!


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## Dyonisis (Nov 11, 2009)

kenlee said:


> I think the problem lies in where these products are made, translating from Chinese into English sometimes results in humorous errors. I work on Sharp copiers and the parts and service manuals come from China where they are translated from Japanese into Chinese and then into English, French, German or whatever language is required. In the early manuals there were some parts were listed as complete units, with a "UNT" prefix another letter was added before the "UNT" to designate the type of device it fit. Logically since it was a copier part a "C" was placed in front of the "UNT". Needless to say, this caused a few grins and giggles when calling up and ordering a copier unit part. The "C" was soon changed to a "D" when it got back to Japan what the part prefix code meant in English.


Don't get me started on misspellings, or grammatical errors - on signs in China intended for visitors, or on these forums! Some I can't even post without getting into trouble for violating the swearing code. 

With all the mispronounciations from T.V. and movies which are the main violators, the misspellings, improper punctuation, and capitlisation (or lack of), are rampant and wreak of stupidity all across the board on these modeling forums and the world abroad! I wouldn't judge them based on ONE misspelled word, although it does reflect poorly on whoever proofread the final copy of the boxtop. 

Words aren't hard to say, as it's the easiest form of communication ever devised. I can't see how you can confuse pronounciations, but words are easy to misspell from what I've read since my first membership on the rpf and starship modeler and every forum since! That shows ignorance too! However, if this box is printed in China - that would be the first clue. I've seen my fair share of this, especially on Chinese instruction manuals. It won't matter if the decals are at least spelled right. I wouldn't worry about it, unless the owner of round two has a heavy New Jersey accent!  

~ The God of war


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## spacetrader2000 (Jul 19, 2009)

ClubTepes said:


> If I was a kit producer, its stuff like this that would make me say 'screw them' and not do it because the customers don't deserve it.


AMEN!


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## jbond (Aug 29, 2002)

If you look at the markings on the build-up the kit is supposed to be the Defiant, not the Enterprise--the Enterprise doesn't glow green in the episode, the Defiant does.


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## Dyonisis (Nov 11, 2009)

jbond said:


> If you look at the markings on the build-up the kit is supposed to be the Defiant, not the Enterprise--the Enterprise doesn't glow green in the episode, the Defiant does.


You know, after reading your post - I _had_ to go back and look at that picture again. You're right, twice the insult - misspelled, _and_ misrepresented. :drunk:

~ The God of war


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

jbond said:


> If you look at the markings on the build-up the kit is supposed to be the Defiant, not the Enterprise--the Enterprise doesn't glow green in the episode, the Defiant does.


That is why the entire idea of the kit is stupid and insulting to ANYONE who has seen "Star Trek", which I would assume this episode specific release is aimed at. Know your customer! They don't! And if a corporation wants to say "screw you" to all the people that are not buying their excuses anymore, instead of making the pile of money the kit would bring in for them, then they will be out of business soon.


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## jbond (Aug 29, 2002)

Well, they're in a bind there because they have to not only know their customers but also potentially sell to a few casual consumers who might think this looks neat. We don't know what the final packaging of this will be I assume--to package a ship that is identical to the Enterprise as the Defiant would probably confuse people who haven't memorized every episode of Star Trek. My guess is there would be wording on the box that the package contains decals that give the builder the option to build the kit as the Defiant or just as a "glow-in-the-dark" version of the Enterprise. I also wouldn't entirely rule out a few additional parts so that the Tholian ships are included--they're small in relationship to the Enterprise and I would think including the parts for them wouldn't be any more expensive than the landing gear and wing option parts for the Klingon BOP. 
Of course I'm engaging in speculation, but aren't we all? Now back to our regularly scheduled program of Round 2 fear and loathing...


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

Swapping the blue packaging for green to match Spock's box last year was a gimick I denounced at the time. I eventually came around to like the idea and wrote at the r2 blog or here that every xmas they 'could' do some little twist to keep that kit in the spotlight. I suggested minor tooling tweaks so that in a few years time, they could have the entire kit retooled. 

I like the packaging, the glow is a good gimmick as it should be stronger than any paint glow, i also like the box art and would like to get a misprint for the additional collector value. 

As to typos, we are all guilty of them. To slip by several people and make it to production shouldn't happen.


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## Dyonisis (Nov 11, 2009)

Correct, but a typo on your own product that you're manufacturing is lax. It also shows disrespect, or disregard for your customers when you're trying to rope them in and gain new prospective customers at the same time. You wouldn't misspell your customers' name when writing up a reciept, would you? This is more than just a typo - it's shooting holes in its' own reputation delibrately! That's why there's proofreading - to catch those typos before production begins. Let's just hope those clowns aren't pulling a publicity stunt! 

~ The God of war


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## Ductapeforever (Mar 6, 2008)

I look at the folks from Round 2 as just a step above Lindberg...shameful, simply shameful!


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## Dyonisis (Nov 11, 2009)

Well, I just want to ask this, because I keep forgetting to - are these people a legitimate, licensed corporation, or a mom and pop type garage kit operation? If this is the latter of the two, that would explain a lot. 

~ The God of war


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## CaptCBoard (Aug 3, 2002)

Round 2 is Tom Lowe, the original owner of Playing Mantis, of which Polar Lights was a sub-division. Lowe sold PM to Racing Champions, who immediately shut down Polar Lights. Lowe has since acquired licenses to do Star Trek kits from both old AMT molds and the Polar Lights molds, among other things. This is no Mom and Pop operation, but my guess is any profits made from using the existing tooling might go toward financing any new tooling, like the 1:350 TOS E. Keep in mind that with the existing economy, starting a new project like that would be very risky.

As for the gaff on the box, my guess is unless there is a 40' container of those kits heading for market, the one at the show was a mock-up or a proof. When I did my Mercury Capsule kit, I was sent proofs of the box for approval. As for who did the typo, I am sure that was done in the US by whoever Round 2 uses for graphics design. It is much easier to design stuff like that here than to provide supervision over someone in China doing the artwork.

By the way, I would also like to point out something that almost no one seems to realize. If it weren't for the inexpensive labor in foreign countries, we kit enthusiasts would be really stuck for something to build. The cost of making tooling in this country is so expensive that a kit like my Mercury Capsule would have retailed for nearly $300.

Another fact that really effects how much a kit retails for is the number of units that will be sold. Back in the 60's Aurora sold nearly 1,000,000 Enterprise kits. Today, Moebius is struggling to sell enough J2 kits to break even. When you consider that Moebius has everything done in China to produce a product that has the lowest possible retail price, if the sales are not sufficient to cover the production costs, we are going to be out of luck in the future. Wisecracks about where the product we covet is made doesn't help. Our devotion to this hobby has to be tempered with the reality that these products simply can't be made in the US at a price we can actually afford. When that 1:350 TOS Enterprise comes in, you can expect to see a price tag of at least $150. Given the size of the box it will come in versus how many of them can be shipped in a container, the price may be even higher. Round 2 has to evaluate the final retail price versus how many kits might be sold before starting the project-- or not starting it. 

My guess is we won't see this kit, ever. I just paid $4.00 for a quart jar of Mayonnaise and $4.79 for a loaf of Sourdough bread. Almost 9 bucks and still nothing to put into a sandwich! As much as I'd like to spend whatever it takes for that big E, I don't think I'll be able to!

Scott


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## razorwyre1 (Jan 28, 2004)

thank you scott. the voice of reason. 

id like to point out 2 things: you guys would be surprised at exactly how many people up and down the chain of production can look at a piece of camera ready art and not see what seems to be a glaring typo. it happens all the time, and since no one except the book and periodical industries employ full time proof-readers, it gets through.

secondly, with the state of the economy right now, its amazing that anybodys producing new stuff. if the sales at hobby shops are down like they are with a number of "leisure product" stores, hobby shops dont have a lot of money to buy new stock at present. 

the only thing that R2, mobeius, pegasus, atlantis, and monarch owe any of us is a sincere "thank you" for purchasing the products we have bought up until now, and as far as i can tell, theyve already made good on that. its real easy to say "they should make X" when its not your money that has to bring the thing to fruition. so give the guys at R2 a break, and be grateful that you have the ones that have been released to build.


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## bigdaddydaveh (Jul 20, 2007)

I think we all could use a bit of a reality check here guys. Tom Lowe was asked and they don't think it makes financial sense to spend money on TOS 1/350 kit. We are not living in the good old days of model kit popularity. Our hobby is dying on the vine and the market is just not there to justify the kit at this time. Round 2 is not the type of company we remember when we think of a model/toy company from when we were growing up. Heck, the don't even produce the kits, they farm that out to a factory in China. This is the "World Headquarters" for Round 2...http://www.whitepages.com/maps/directions?log_listing_id=Telco_Buffy_YellowPages|101363888&lower=0&more_info=1&search_id=71251382309442152732&search_type=reverseaddress&street=4073+Meghan+Beeler+Ct+&where=south+bend%2C+IN+46628
Click the bird's eye view and the little building on the left is Round 2. Keep in mind, they only occupy the front half of that building and most of it is warehouse space. Also keep in mind this is also home to at least four other product lines, not just model kits. I know this because I drive past it twice a day on my way to work. Tom Lowe also attends my church and I work daily with some former employees of Playing Mantis. He's a nice, personable guy and he has a team of hard working people doing their best in a difficult situation to keep us happy. It's a small, small, company in the grand scheme of things and we need to keep that in mind when making "demands" for new product. The are operating on a small scale and I'm amazed at what they have been able to accomplish so far. I love the product they put out and hope to see new kits come out but that is going to take time. It's also going to depend highly on the economy.


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## Guy Schlicter (May 3, 2004)

bigdaddydaveh said:


> I think we all could use a bit of a reality check here guys. Tom Lowe was asked and they don't think it makes financial sense to spend money on TOS 1/350 kit. We are not living in the good old days of model kit popularity. Our hobby is dying on the vine and the market is just not there to justify the kit at this time. Round 2 is not the type of company we remember when we think of a model/toy company from when we were growing up. Heck, the don't even produce the kits, they farm that out to a factory in China. This is the "World Headquarters" for Round 2...http://www.whitepages.com/maps/directions?log_listing_id=Telco_Buffy_YellowPages|101363888&lower=0&more_info=1&search_id=71251382309442152732&search_type=reverseaddress&street=4073+Meghan+Beeler+Ct+&where=south+bend%2C+IN+46628
> Click the bird's eye view and the little building on the left is Round 2. Keep in mind, they only occupy the front half of that building and most of it is warehouse space. Also keep in mind this is also home to at least four other product lines, not just model kits. I know this because I drive past it twice a day on my way to work. Tom Lowe also attends my church and I work daily with some former employees of Playing Mantis. He's a nice, personable guy and he has a team of hard working people doing their best in a difficult situation to keep us happy. It's a small, small, company in the grand scheme of things and we need to keep that in mind when making "demands" for new product. The are operating on a small scale and I'm amazed at what they have been able to accomplish so far. I love the product they put out and hope to see new kits come out but that is going to take time. It's also going to depend highly on the economy.


 The best thing to do is give Round 2 a total break. I'll say it again, we would never have seen any of these classic kits again. Some people expect way too much out of Round 2. Now that I know the scoop I believe Round 2 is trying for its customers. I'd love to see many new Star Trek kits. Remember the Star Trek kits were dead. I know Ertl wouldn't have done nearly the amount of changes to these classic Star Trek kits and some we would never have seen produced again. Thanks Round 2 you have my continued and permanent support and i will be buying many more Star Trek kits from you. Guy Schlicter.


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## pagni (Mar 20, 1999)

.......so just change the box art to U.S.S. Defiant
While technically not a new kit at least the box art will look good and slightly more accurate.


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

The "Economy is bad" line is getting old, both on this subject and in Washington. Moebius has had NO trouble bringing us great, NEW, kits. Why is Round 2, a much larger corporation, doing so poorly? On the subject of "cheep" Chinese help, they are finally waking up and embracing capitalism over there, while we have an attitude here trying to kill it, and worker wages and all other related costs are going up. That, on top of shipping costs on cargo ships, port costs and import taxes, not to mention language barriers and turnaround time for proofs, are making it MORE expensive to produce over there than here! Are you telling me that in this "bad economy" people here would turn down a job at the rates the Chinese are getting, to do the work here. I would think all those who have been unemployed for two years would jump at any job! Just keep the unions out of it, they are what drove jobs overseas to begin with!

Rant over, return to your homes citizens!


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## Arronax (Apr 6, 1999)

pagni said:


> .......so just change the box art to U.S.S. Defiant
> While technically not a new kit at least the box art will look good and slightly more accurate.


You're missing the point.

What is the average or beginner model builder more likely to buy when they see it on a hobby shop shelf? A glow-in-the-dark Enterprise or a glow-in-the-dark Defiant? Your average model builder has no idea what the Defiant is.

This isn't about what avid Trek modelers want.

Jim


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## JeffG (May 10, 2004)

"Gentlemen, gentlemen! Such unprofessional behavior."
(Motions with phaser)
"Into that little room!"


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## Dyonisis (Nov 11, 2009)

OK. I understand what you're saying, Scott - this still doesn't justify an error on a product that will cost most people more money than they can really afford. I won't be buying, nor will most of the people on this forum. The reality is that most of us have families and children that must come before our hobbies. 

The sad reality is that video games and cell phones have diverted our childrens' attention from using their minds to be creative to plug-and-play way of thinking, or rather - not thinking. Things are expected to be easy without trial and error, or without really putting much thought into it. There's no creative outlet for kids now since violence and foul mouth bravado in video games have taken the place of the family table where many used to play board games too! These have fallen by the wayside now that the digital world requires almost no physical movement, or any real thought. You just run and gun. 

There are fewer games for kids as the market is flooded with teens and adults - mainly adults playing these types of games that only encourage bad behavior and disrepect for others. My boy is banned from playing these games since there's no point in it. I had to restrain myself when he called modeling "stupid"! It took all my reserve to keep me from killing him! He doesn't understand the concept of building something with his own hands, or the enjoyment of a finished model that you can show everyone and that will stand the test of time even when all these trashy video games are long gone and forgotten about. Before anyone comes in here defending video games and the like - I too am guilty of playing games from time to time, but I don't spend all my time in front of my T.V. with them, nor do I play games with cussing, or violent gore! 

~ The God of war


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## Guy Schlicter (May 3, 2004)

Hi Folks, I emailed Jamie and got a response. He said the box at the show is just a mockup and may not be the final box art for the kit. He also thanked me for telling him about the mispelling in the name U.S.S. Enterprise. Good enough for me. Guy Schlicter.


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

Guy Schlicter said:


> Hi Folks, I emailed Jamie and got a response. He said the box at the show is just a mockup and may not be the final box art for the kit. He also thanked me for telling him about the mispelling in the name U.S.S. Enterprise. Good enough for me. Guy Schlicter.


NO ONE told him before now? Very telling!!!!


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## jbond (Aug 29, 2002)

Sheeeeeeeesh...this thread needs a professional counselor. It's amazing how many people seem to know exactly how to run a high-volume, highly profitable model kit company--and how many are determined to view a TYPO as signs of a vast conspiracy to insult and cheat them.
I believe ALL of the kits announced by Round 2 were slated for the END of 2011. Yes, it's too bad a typo slipped through on a piece of mock-up packaging for a product that won't be on shelves for a full year from now, but it's just funny how this has become the focus of a year of pent-up rage about the 1/350 TOS E. People really think they are owed things. I've been collecting sci fi kits since the early 70s. It has ALWAYS been a cult market and I am continually amazed that we get ANY new product, especially mass produced kits of OLDER subjects. Given demographics and the fact that kids are just not into this stuff, I am stunned that we're seeing so much new product. In the 70s and even 80s we saw almost NOTHING but reissues of Star Trek and Star Wars kits with the occasional new product from a newly released movie or TV show--which normally wound up on remainder shelves pretty fast. Without people like Tom Lowe, Frank Winspur and others I think sci fi subjects would be ENTIRELY generated by garage kitters. So you don't owe these people obedience if they're not producing what you want, but the amount of abuse generated here is ridiculous--if I was Phantom Stranger I sure wouldn't be hanging out here and subjecting myself to the Grand Inquisition from everyone demanding to know why they haven't been given their big TOS E yet. Life's too short...


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## rkoenn (Dec 18, 2007)

Hey Mr. Bond, you sound like a rationale grown up, I didn't think your type were allowed to post! Moebius and Round 2 are businesses??? I thought they just built models to suit our whims! A very reasonable post.

Bob K.


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## CaptCBoard (Aug 3, 2002)

RSN said:


> That, on top of shipping costs on cargo ships, port costs and import taxes, not to mention language barriers and turnaround time for proofs, are making it MORE expensive to produce over there than here! Are you telling me that in this "bad economy" people here would turn down a job at the rates the Chinese are getting, to do the work here. I would thing all those who have been unemployed for two years would jump at any job!


Yes, I am telling you its much less expensive to produce model kits anywhere but in the US. I don't know what a machinist in China is paid, but when the US quotes for my Mercury tooling came in at $250,000 to a bit over $300,000, the project was dead. The original quote from the Chinese factory was $50,000 and the final cost came in at $68,000, so I did my kit there.

The problem you are not seeing with regard to people who have been unemployed for two years is very, very few of them are experienced machinists. Of those who are, even fewer have the experience necessary to make steel molds for a model kit. Of those who do have that experience, they need to find work with a company that actually makes injection-molding tooling. Of those companies that make that kind of tooling, you need to find one that can handle tooling the size required for a model kit. Most injection-molding tooling made in the US today is smaller than what is required for a model kit. 

So, someone who has been unemployed for two years would first have to be an experienced EDM machinist or a CNC programmer/machinist or any number of highly experienced workers to even apply for a job at a company that might have the facilities to build injection-molding tooling the size needed to produce a model kit. It is true, anyone who has been unemployed for two years would jump at any job-- and they would probably get hired if they had the qualifications for any job that was open. Unfortunately, that still doesn't make it possible to manufacture model kits in the USA!

The real issue is this hobby was established when the cost of manufacturing was such that the demand for the product made it possible for companies like Aurora to do everything in-house. What a lot of people don't know about Aurora is they ran the kit tooling at night-- Aurora made a lot of other things during the day, so the overhead for the kits they were making was already paid for! Revell and Monogram, and the others, were feeding the demand of a much larger consumer base. Actually, they created the demand with the products they made. Aurora was really good at that. I mean, there were millions of Baby Boomer boys out there and when model kits of MONSTERS came out, we could not get our hands on 98 cents fast enough!!

Scott


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

CaptCBoard said:


> Yes, I am telling you its much less expensive to produce model kits anywhere but in the US. I don't know what a machinist in China is paid, but when the US quotes for my Mercury tooling came in at $250,000 to a bit over $300,000, the project was dead. The original quote from the Chinese factory was $50,000 and the final cost came in at $68,000, so I did my kit there.
> 
> The problem you are not seeing with regard to people who have been unemployed for two years is very, very few of them are experienced machinists. Of those who are, even fewer have the experience necessary to make steel molds for a model kit. Of those who do have that experience, they need to find work with a company that actually makes injection-molding tooling. Of those companies that make that kind of tooling, you need to find one that can handle tooling the size required for a model kit. Most injection-molding tooling made in the US today is smaller than what is required for a model kit.
> 
> ...


Then we better start training people to do things with their hands besides typing on a keyboard! There is NO reason this country should not be producing it's own goods! I guess we just see it different.


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## Paulbo (Sep 16, 2004)

RSN said:


> ...Are you telling me that in this "bad economy" people here would turn down a job at the rates the Chinese are getting, to do the work here...


I just checked SupplyManagement.com and the minimum wage in Guangdong province is being raised to $173 per month. Now assuming that minimum wage in the US is $6/hour and a machinist makes 5 times that ($30/hour), then a machinist in Guangdong could make $765 per month.

So ... in this bad economy are you going to take a job that pays $765 per month for skilled labor? Let's put that in perspective: at 160 hours per month (4 weeks, no overtime) that works out to be $4.78 an hour.

Yes, I think people WOULD "turn down a job at the rates the Chinese are getting". Better off to work at McDonalds.


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## Magesblood (May 12, 2008)

do they figure in the outrageous cost of living in China?


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

Paulbo said:


> I just checked SupplyManagement.com and the minimum wage in Guangdong province is being raised to $173 per month. Now assuming that minimum wage in the US is $6/hour and a machinist makes 5 times that ($30/hour), then a machinist in Guangdong could make $765 per month.
> 
> So ... in this bad economy are you going to take a job that pays $765 per month for skilled labor? Let's put that in perspective: at 160 hours per month (4 weeks, no overtime) that works out to be $4.78 an hour.
> 
> Yes, I think people WOULD "turn down a job at the rates the Chinese are getting". Better off to work at McDonalds.


I appreciate all the work you did on the figures, (more time than I have!) but as I said, their wages are going up, and rightly so, and there will come a time when they will not be just cheap labor we can take advantage of. Then where will we be. And yes, if it is the difference between earning money for yourself of taking a government check, I would hope people would still go out and provide for their family as best they can. Again, just my perspective, you are welcome to not agree.


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

If you have not seen the post by PhantomStranger on the other thread about this issue, read it! I have humbled myself about my views and hope all works out for them!!


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## Magesblood (May 12, 2008)

yeah, if I was called an illiterate over the misspelling of one word, I'd be pretty upset.


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## charonjr (Mar 27, 2000)

but iliiitterasseey iz the misspelling of one word. Sorry, had to.


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## Dr. Brad (Oct 5, 1999)

I've been debating whether to post on the title of this post to the effect that "illiteracy" should be not equated with a mere typo. The title of this post might even qualify as an example of "irony." Okay, maybe not quite...


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## ClubTepes (Jul 31, 2002)

RSN said:


> That is why the entire idea of the kit is stupid and insulting to ANYONE who has seen "Star Trek", which I would assume this episode specific release is aimed at. Know your customer! They don't! And if a corporation wants to say "screw you" to all the people that are not buying their excuses anymore, instead of making the pile of money the kit would bring in for them, then they will be out of business soon.


They actually do know their customer (hense all the little tooling tweeks and aztek decals) and they probably know what someone NOT familiar with Trek is looking for.

I think aside from the spelling, that the box is right on the money.

It IS indeed the USS Enterprise AND it is indeed the USS Defiant.
The kit is molded in glow plastic, but that doesn't mean you can't paint it.

Years ago, when AMT released the clear Enterprise 'C', it was released under the name USS Yamaguchi.
Only those of us familiar with Trek knew it was the same tooling as the 'C'.
However, those not familiar with Trek, but may be looking for a christmas or birthday present may not know that.
Once working for a hobby shop, I had plenty of someones grandma or uncle come in looking for a present for 'johnny' knowing that they were interested in something, but not familiar with the subject they would pick the most obvious subject to purchase. The one that was probably the first one Johnny bought years ago.

Tom Walsh who once was the Product Manager at AMT/Ertl told me that 'Enterprises' sell better than anything else. A non Trek customer sees 'Star Trek' and 'Enterprise'. Anything after that is confusing.

I'm sure the box says that it includes markings for the defiant. So I don't see anything wrong with it.


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## Tim Nolan (Jul 9, 2008)

I got a chuckle out of it. I'm also a sucker for just about any kit that glows in the dark. I loved them in my room as a kid, still have some wierd affinity for them!


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## robiwon (Oct 20, 2006)

jbond said:


> Sheeeeeeeesh...this thread needs a professional counselor. It's amazing how many people seem to know exactly how to run a high-volume, highly profitable model kit company--and how many are determined to view a TYPO as signs of a vast conspiracy to insult and cheat them.


I have to agree. Discussion on a topic is one thing but to continually go after people and companies for something like a typo on a box that isn't even out yet...... Gotta love those conspiracy theorists. :thumbsup:


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## spock62 (Aug 13, 2003)

RSN said:


> I appreciate all the work you did on the figures, (more time than I have!) but as I said, their wages are going up, and rightly so, and there will come a time when they will not be just cheap labor we can take advantage of. Then where will we be. And yes, if it is the difference between earning money for yourself of taking a government check, I would hope people would still go out and provide for their family as best they can. Again, just my perspective, you are welcome to not agree.


Been following this discussion and wasn't going to comment, but this post changed that. I've been unemployed since Feb '09, have sent out numerous resumes with few responses or interviews. I've been working since the age of 16 (I'm 47) and have always found work, until now. Living off the "government check" equals $1200 a month, before taxes. I barely have enough to pay the mortgage/electric/water bills, which leaves no money for things like food, insurances, car repairs, etc. I'm using my savings to make up the rest. A minimum wage job here in Florida is $7.25 (before taxes), 50 cents less then what the "government check" gives me. Since I can't survive on the "government check" without dipping into my savings account/retirement account, what makes you think I could survive on minimum wage, let alone under $5.00 and hour using the Chinese example? Would I love to go earn money for myself instead of living off a unemployment check, you bet. Would I be able to survive on minimum wage, only until I deplete my savings, the next step would be bankruptcy. Something tells me you have a good paying job or have a comfortable retirement. My experience is that people with jobs/financial security don't have a clue about those of us who are unemployed. Get your facts straight next time before posting. Oh, and everyone who's bitching over misspelled words or kit's they feel their owed not coming out, get over it. Be happy that's the only problems you have! Rant over....


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

I'm surprised that people are reacting to this as they are. When I started this thread, I meant it to be a humorous poke, having followed the "ENTEPRISE" spelling error on the decals included in the little snap kits. This box art was just too good for me to resist.

If you go back and read the original post (which I have included here), you will notice the wink (  ) in the body of the text. Nothing mean-spirited. Just something that I discovered with the box are that I thought was quite funny and wanted to exploit it.



Trek Ace said:


> While perusing the CultTVman blog reports on the latest offerings from Round 2, I discovered this photo of an upcoming kit release for 2011:
> 
> http://culttvman.com/main/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/ihobby2010-r207.jpg
> 
> ...


Yes, I was disappointed and frustrated that there was no news about the 1/350th kit, having written to the company, emailed them and sent in the poll (both by mail and electronically), as well as posted in their blog (all communication being very polite and positive) - all without the courtesy of a single response from them. But, that has since been (hopefully) answered, and we may still see the kit in the foreseeable future.

No conspiracies. No bashing. Just a little tongue-in-cheek humor.


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

spock62 said:


> Been following this discussion and wasn't going to comment, but this post changed that. I've been unemployed since Feb '09, have sent out numerous resumes with few responses or interviews. I've been working since the age of 16 (I'm 47) and have always found work, until now. Living off the "government check" equals $1200 a month, before taxes. I barely have enough to pay the mortgage/electric/water bills, which leaves no money for things like food, insurances, car repairs, etc. I'm using my savings to make up the rest. A minimum wage job here in Florida is $7.25 (before taxes), 50 cents less then what the "government check" gives me. Since I can't survive on the "government check" without dipping into my savings account/retirement account, what makes you think I could survive on minimum wage, let alone under $5.00 and hour using the Chinese example? Would I love to go earn money for myself instead of living off a unemployment check, you bet. Would I be able to survive on minimum wage, only until I deplete my savings, the next step would be bankruptcy. Something tells me you have a good paying job or have a comfortable retirement. My experience is that people with jobs/financial security don't have a clue about those of us who are unemployed. Get your facts straight next time before posting. Oh, and everyone who's bitching over misspelled words or kit's they feel their owed not coming out, get over it. Be happy that's the only problems you have! Rant over....


Sorry to disappoint you but I am disabled and been unemployed since 2003 because of it and I collect NO disability. My wife and I live on one income and have no debt but our house and we have one in collage with one in the bullpen. That was not my point, my point was, we need to bring industry back to this country and put people to work. I said nothing about ONLY paying minimum wage! I am sorry your life is structured to where your only choice is to have the government support you. There is no way to move up the ladder with that type of income as there would be working any job! 

I did not intend the comment to be an insult to ANYONE, just to point out that wages in China are going up fast as they wise up to their exploitation!

I hope things improve for you in the future as you move on from this point of your life.


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## spock62 (Aug 13, 2003)

RSN said:


> Sorry to disappoint you but I am disabled and been unemployed since 2003 because of it and I collect NO disability. My wife and I live on one income and have no debt but our house and we have one in collage with one in the bullpen. That was not my point, my point was, we need to bring industry back to this country and put people to work. I said nothing about ONLY paying minimum wage! I am sorry your life is structured to where your only choice is to have the government support you. There is no way to move up the ladder with that type of income as there would be working any job!
> 
> I did not intend the comment to be an insult to ANYONE, just to point out that wages in China are going up fast as they wise up to their exploitation!
> 
> I hope things improve for you in the future as you move on from this point of your life.


Sorry to hear your disabled, but at least you have a spouse that has a job, even though I'm sure it's hard to make ends meet. The point I'm making is that taking a minimum wage job to provide for yourself/family doesn't, not at $7.25 and hour. Neither does the "government check" at $7.50 and hour. Like I said, I supplement my income with savings, which will eventually run out. Whither I stay on unemployment (over for me beginning of next year) or take that great, upwardly mobile job at McDonald's (you do realize that their is very little opportunity to "move up the ladder" in minimum wage jobs, right), I'm in the same boat. So for you to say that "And yes, if it is the difference between earning money for yourself of taking a government check, I would hope people would still go out and provide for their family as best they can." is not realistic when dealing with, low wage service jobs, which is what is mostly out there. The other jobs that pay well require experience and/or degrees in those careers. I know more people out of work than ones that have jobs, many of which have degrees, and they've been out of work as long or longer then me. Oh, and those minimum wage jobs, they don't like to hire people such as myself, they figure we'll go to greener pastures when the job market opens (which I would) and consider us a "risk" to hire (i.e. we're "over experienced"). That being said, hope things go well for you.


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## Magesblood (May 12, 2008)

hold the phone. A one income household with a kid in college, one at home and you're collecting unemployment and not disability? Something that you're entitled to - something that you've paid into by punching a clock...?


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

Magesblood said:


> hold the phone. A one income household with a kid in college, one at home and you're collecting unemployment and not disability? Something that you're entitled to - something that you've paid into by punching a clock...?


Actually, NO unemployment! And yes no disability. It is not worth the time to jump through government hoops in court to prove my case. Life is too short, literally, and we don't need the money right now. I have paid into it, it should still be there when I NEED it........right? 

Anyway, my original point was China will not be a cheap option forever, we need to make ourselves competitive here again BEFORE it is too late!!!!

Flag waving over, PLEASE, let’s get back to building!


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## Tiberious (Nov 20, 2001)

I'm not sure why that'd disappoint him. Hard times are hard times, nobody likes them and so long as we're doing the best we can nobody deserves them.

But they happen, when I "retired" from the Air Force I was unemployed for 18 months, military retirement (especially mine) barely covered my house payment, beyond that it was a struggle that I don't wish on anyone. I hate my current job, but I'm grateful as hell for it.

Not to remain on topic, mistakes happen, this isn't the final box and I don't understand why it deserves the rant. Let he who is without sin (or error in this case) cast the first stone (or bashing post.)

If you don't want it, don't buy it. We've been all through this.

Tib


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## Dyonisis (Nov 11, 2009)

This thread's just turned into a pissing match. With a title like illeteracy being the main attraction, I can see why. I usually stay away from these types of threads, especially with tiles like "stupid", or "I can't believe this" but I just had to look. It's kind of like a train, or car wreck - You can't look away, even though you know you should. Let me say this - if you're a professional manufacturer of goods, at least make sure that you spell the name of your product correctly, and that it is the product advertised on the box. 

How many of us here have had Chinese instructions in the box with their ready to assemble office furniture that weren't perfectly worded, spelled right, or were the wrong instructions entirely? The last time I got something like this, it was a CD rack for my mom. All it had was a folded up sheet with pictures, and a couple part numbers that wasn't very descriptive, or helpful since I had to figure out which way each part was supposed to be facing in order to be assembled correctly according to letters instead of numbers. What a disappointment - to say the least?! This was the size of a bookcase, and it should've only taken twenty to twenty five minutes with a few hand tools, but the vagueness of the instructions made it take nearly an hour!  Twice as long as it should have! 

All I really meant to say is, the world is full of disappointment, we don't need any more, or anyone else to add to it! I'm sure that these guys will make good, and correct their mistake. I'm not a Trekkie, but I understand wanting the things you build to be correctly boxed, and spelled with the correct name on it. I've seen worse, and it won't be the last time. 

~ The God of still needing to get paid


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