# Helping Hands



## JOHN B (Apr 17, 2006)

I recently encouraged my buddy from McPappy Racing to proceed with his idea to make the ultimate helping hands. Us slot car guys could certainly benefit from this awesome tool he made. For example, we should be able to use it to hold the motor in place perfectly straight while soldering it in.










McPappyRacing.com


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## slotking (May 27, 2008)

nice

I could use that


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

I love the single "posi-lock" feature for adjusting the arms. Very cool!

Pretty sporty ...

... as well it should be for a buck forty plus.

Picturing it slathered in over spray, solder, flux, and other slot related "schlevarneck".


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## RjAFX (Oct 26, 2014)

With my hands full of arthritis this would be a good addition to my modling vice, and home made double parts holder. When I get caught up on some of the AFX I'm missing ... I'll be spending $210 on one..... No wait not for that kind of money, if I need to I'll make myself another double parts holder.


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## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

http://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result?q=helping+hands

http://www.micromark.com/SearchResult.aspx?deptIdFilter=0&searchPhrase=helping+hands

http://www.radioshack.com/radioshack-helping-hands-with-magnifier/6400079.html


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## RjAFX (Oct 26, 2014)

alpink said:


> http://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result?q=helping+hands
> 
> http://www.micromark.com/SearchResult.aspx?deptIdFilter=0&searchPhrase=helping+hands
> 
> http://www.radioshack.com/radioshack-helping-hands-with-magnifier/6400079.html


,and one can always buy and use plastic alligater clips.


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## MSwaterlogged (Feb 5, 2014)

alpink said:


> http://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result?q=helping+hands
> 
> http://www.micromark.com/SearchResult.aspx?deptIdFilter=0&searchPhrase=helping+hands
> 
> http://www.radioshack.com/radioshack-helping-hands-with-magnifier/6400079.html




I have the HF version. It works, but is not very steady. Hard to get things to stay locked in place.


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## vansmack2 (Feb 9, 2012)

Nice, but I am not spending that much money on something I rarely use. However a three arm with a magnifying glass on one would be nice. If any generous person wants to send me one as a gift then you can PM me.


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## RjAFX (Oct 26, 2014)

Dave it is nice, but WAY overpriced.


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## Bubba 123 (Sep 10, 2010)

RjAFX said:


> Dave it is nice, but WAY overpriced.


check out Hobby-Lobby, w/ 40% coupon :thumbsup:

Bubba 123 :wave:


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## vansmack2 (Feb 9, 2012)

Bubba 123 said:


> check out Hobby-Lobby, w/ 40% coupon :thumbsup:
> 
> Bubba 123 :wave:


I have a cheap one from Harbor Freight. I think I paid less than $10.


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## slotking (May 27, 2008)

pat of the issue is that most of are HO guys
so the clips work just about for most of our needs

looking at the daddy unit
it pretty big for hos stuff, but would be great for tains, rc cars & planes and boats, and maybe the 1/24th slot car folks


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## cegpcola (Jan 28, 2013)

I can understand some of the concerns you guys bring up, but to be honest with you I think there are still some areas that this could be useful in this hobby for you guys as well, but it has so many more uses. The product really crosses over to many different hobbies. Not only have I been using mine for my RC, but I have also thrown my AR15 in my dual arm unit using the supplied clamps to work on and clean it. It held it without an issue. Through my 20+ years in the RC Hobby, I have run across and made a lot of great friends that for one reason or anther do not have the best use of both of their hands and a product like this is a huge help for these guys. I am sure there are also guys in the slot car hobby like this as well. Yes at first glance it seems a bit pricey, but the value of the product realistically is spread over a multitude of hobbies and careers. 

Kurtis


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## RjAFX (Oct 26, 2014)

The simple fact is it is way over priced.

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=hobby+helping+hands&tbm=shop&spd=6128323958577837969

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#tbm=shop&q=hobby+vice


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## slotking (May 27, 2008)

RJafx

in the links you posted, only the gripper vise comes close.
it sits on the table.

That really cool that it will support the weight of an AR15:thumbsup:
hopefully you have pics you posted on gun sites.

but even gun vises are a lot lower priced.

I think in the $75 range would increase your sales a lot.
the quantity of sales would bring more money than less sales at a higher price.
if you can get production cost low enough.

but it is a nice product:thumbsup:


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## RjAFX (Oct 26, 2014)

,and still the simple fact is, it's way over priced.


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## cegpcola (Jan 28, 2013)

Let me start by correcting the missunderstanding, I am not the creator of the product. I am simply someone that runs McPappy products because I know the quality of what McPappy produces. The price point isn't for everyone, but to be honest the cost couldn't come down by much as you would then have to start sacrificing quality. However not everyone is going to see the complete value in it and that is understandable. 

Kurtis


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## sjracer (May 25, 2008)

Way over priced!!!! Forgive me for not viewing/listening to all the propaganda but is it American made? i only ask because you emphasize quality. If not your mark up is most likely close to $100. Your item is over 20 times more expensive than it's competition. realize it is better but it's no where near 20 times better for my use.


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## James35 (Oct 27, 2006)

Thanks for all of the comments. If anyone is interested, I can speak to the pricing.

We chose the fully stainless steel (not just the sockets) articulating friction arms which cost $45 because they simply perform better and will last longer than the $20 ones. We tried many different arms, and the $20 arms (identified by a black coating on the metal) had to major problems. First, when you loosened the knob, 1 of the 3 joints didn't release most of the time. Secondly, the designers of the cheap arm realized it's holding power was weak, so they inserted a C-clip into the socket so it had biting power on the ball. The problem with this is, it immediately starts scratching the ball. I mean immediately. Even right out of the box, with nothing attached, it's clear that the design would never have worked in the long run as the balls would get more and more scratched. 

I really don't care if the price went up $25 higher per arm. It was the right choice. Anyone who's bought quality tools knows they can be expensive, but can pay for themselves over time and can last a lifetime. The $45 stainless steel arm was chosen because we don't want anyone getting frustrated with a cheap arm or associate that with our name. That's just not who we are. When you feel the stainless steel arm, it will put a smile on your face every time because it's smoother, holds stronger, releases better, won't wear out.

The other big expense was making a custom mini vise. Not only was the mini vise all custom (yes, American made), but we also had custom stainless steel turnbuckles made, just so it would open and close twice as fast. We even made custom thumbscrews with reversed (left-hand threads). Why did we do that? With a traditional thumbscrew, everything opens and closes backwards (clockwise actually opens the vise instead of closes). With our custom thumbscrew, you don't have to reverse it in your brain to open and close it. 

Mini vise completely outperforms alligator clips. A typical alligator clip can only open to about 3/8", ours can open to 1 1/4". Alligator clips have a non adjustable pressure, our mini vise can hold items gently. Alligator clips have teeth that can cause damage, ours do not. Alligator clips can't act like a heat sink when soldering, ours does. Alligator clips can't hold odd shaped items, our dowel pins can. Our mini vise can also hold items squarely in the V-grooves and won't scratch other metal objects since it's made of 7075 aluminum. 

If you do some homework on mini-vises that are light, and can be attached to the end of an arm, they are hard to find or aren't cheap. 

Mini table vises like this could be attached, but are still way too big (4 1/2") and heavy. No way to get 2 of them close together to hold a wire into a bullet connector for example. No dowel pins.









These "movement" mini-vises don't close all the way. (They were designed to hold watches) No V-grooves.









Hand vise is better than an alligator clip, but have a limited opening and no V-grooves or dowel pins.








This kind of hand vise can't be attached because the handle needs to be turned to open/close the jaws. No V-grooves and dowel pins.









This hand vise is too bulky and requires a special threads adapter for mounting. The ones that I tested had poor quality. 1/3rd of the drilled holes wouldn't accept the dowel pins. No V-grooves.









Brass hand vises wear out quickly due to the single rod design. As you tighten them, it torques on the brass holes and they elongate and start to bind or get loose. No V-grooves and dowel pins.









PanaVise heads are made of plastic and a little too big. No dowel pins.


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## James35 (Oct 27, 2006)

The best truly small mountable vises I found were:
CVM-20 but it's $115









CMV-20 is $250









And the Marvision Martool. $215








Very nice, but too pricey for the project and didn't have dowel pins.

Our closest competitor is the $125 Euro Tool GRS double-arm third hands.

And if you look closely, you have to use a Phillips screw driver on 3 joints to adjust the tension, and it's kinda just glorified alligators clips.





So when you add up the costs of our stainless steel articulating arm(s), mini vise(s), base, 5/8"-27 to 1/4"-20 adapter, 8-32 to 1/4"-20 adapter, 6-32 reversed thumbscrew, custom turnbuckles, dowel pins, parts tin, and then you take in account the time it takes to machine extra holes in the base, machine cut the tool steel rods, hand polish the rods and dowel pins, glue magnets on the tin, and assemble everything, you can see why the prices are where they are.

If you don't spend a lot of time on hobbies, and rarely solder, and if you are ok with the limitations of alligator clips, and limited reach on the arms, and only use it for light items, and are ok with using 4 knobs adjustment, then more power to you, the McPappy Helping Hands isn't for you. By all means, save some money. But if you feel like hobbies aren't going anywhere in your near future and you want the best, then our Helping Hands are the right tool for the job.


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## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

*thank you*

yes, it IS all a matter of choice to the precision we require.
I think everyone recognizes that the best tools are always very expensive and your description of the workmanship, materials and shear effort in designing and excuting your design justifies the price.
at my level of dedication, the Horrible Fright cheapo, disposable does the job well enough.
if I ever desire to increase my level of interest, I CAN afford your tool and I now know where to purchase it and why.
thank you for your thoughtful, complete and indepth explanation and description of your precision tool.


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## GT40 (Jan 18, 2014)

alpink said:


> yes, it IS all a matter of choice to the precision we require.
> I think everyone recognizes that the best tools are always very expensive and your description of the workmanship, materials and shear effort in designing and excuting your design justifies the price.
> at my level of dedication, the Horrible Fright cheapo, disposable does the job well enough.
> if I ever desire to increase my level of interest, I CAN afford your tool and I now know where to purchase it and why.
> thank you for your thoughtful, complete and indepth explanation and description of your precision tool.


Well said AL:thumbsup:, I feel the same way, it does look like it would get the job done better then anything out there.:freak:

gt40:wave:


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