# Round 2 44inch Space 199 eagle possible.



## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

Something interesting turned up on Facebook this morning.

There was a discussion on a 23in resin Eagle that was up on Ebay when the usual we need this in plastic talk started....and then this from Jamie Hood;

"I'll tell you what, if you can get 5000 people to comment on this post (not total posts or shares or anything like that) but just one comment from 5000 unique individuals that say they would put up a $200 down payment right now towards a $400 44" Eagle kit, I would see that as cause enough to run a crowdfunding campaign to get that done. 2500 people saying they would take two won't count. We need to know the funnel is big because we know from experience some won't follow through. 5000 people."

Interested go here and let him know???
https://www.facebook.com/groups/space1999propsandships/


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## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

*sigh*

I mean, sure, people, some people would LOVE a 44" Eagle in styrene plastic. At that size I might think some mixed media (like metal for the main spine) might be useful but with the right engineering and materials it could be a super cool kit. 

But I think they're pretty optimistic for 5000 people committing to a $400 (and up, likely) kit. 

And I'm uncomfortable with the very concept of crowdfunding a commercially produced model kit. Maybe that's the future, I dunno. If the kit becomes super popular and they make more than the original number does that violate some implied contract? If it's popular and they DON'T make more why are they leaving money on the table? 

None of this sounds like actual business. It sounds like a 'get rich quick' scheme (I KNOW it's not, it SOUNDS like it) or a company so risk-adverse that ONLY 100% sure things can be given consideration.

It's a crazy world. Nothing, NOT ONE THING is sure other than the sun will come up tomorrow (most likely). 

I wonder if they would give the same chance if 5000 people would pay $30 for a new-tool 11" Eagle? I bet THAT idea would fill up very fast.


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## Proper2 (Dec 8, 2010)

Well if you're that much of a S1999 fan, it's time to look for a bigger house.


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## spock62 (Aug 13, 2003)

Much rather have an accurate 1/72 Eagle than a 44" version. No room to display 44" kit and no way I'd spend $400+.


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

A mere $400 for a 44", HERO studio-scale Eagle kit?

Who the hell cares WHAT it is made of (Most likely styrene, or ABS). I would by one in a heartbeat! And then another...and another...

Again, just like the 22" kit, it would be very economical because there is so little tooling required to create the many parts needed for most of the model.

The Eagle remains one of my favorite spacecraft designs. I may have to join facebook just so I could vote on this. I'm not getting any younger, you know.


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## robn1 (Nov 17, 2012)

I hope this happens for the folks who want it, but I'm not interested. The 22in kit is perfect, all I want is a Hawk in scale with it, and a Swift and Super Swift while I'm dreaming.


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## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

robn1 said:


> I hope this happens for the folks who want it, but I'm not interested. The 22in kit is perfect, all I want is a Hawk in scale with it, and a Swift and Super Swift while I'm dreaming.


See, now, tell me that R2 wanted to use crowdfunding for a (nominally) 1/48 scale Hawk, and they need 5000 backers for a $150 kit, I can see that happening, see it hit goal. I think they could find 5000 people who would back that. A good stretch goal would be finding a way to re-issue the old creaky MPC Hawk (probably using a 'reverse engineered from kit' new tool) as both a special gift to the backers and a mass market release.

Brothers, if this whole crowdfunding thing turns out to be the 'big announcement' their cute little fumetti* on the blog teased, I shall have to take my 'anti-internet outrage' pills to keep from melting down 

(Photo comics are form of sequential storytelling that uses photographic images rather than illustration for the visuals, along with narrative text and word balloons containing dialogue. They are often referred to in English as fumetti or as photonovels.

Although they have generally been less common than illustrated comics, photo comics have filled a number of niches in various places and times, such as adapting popular film and television works, telling original melodramas, providing medical education, and other genres. Photo comics have been particularly popular in Italy and Latin America, and they have been popular to a lesser extent in English-speaking countries.) (and now you know)


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## irishtrek (Sep 17, 2005)

A 22 inch Eagle is not big enough?????


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## Proper2 (Dec 8, 2010)

irishtrek said:


> A 22 inch Eagle is not big enough?????


I think if you can ride it like Slim Pickens, then it just might be big enough!


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## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

irishtrek said:


> A 22 inch Eagle is not big enough?????


It's an addiction, an obsession. People want the Next Big Thing.

I fully expect a petition for a 1/144 scale Enterprise any day now. 

And, OH, oh, the controversy, the feuds, the arguments if R2 DOES go forward with a 44" Eagle. With that size, should there be a full interior, at least in the pod? Why not emulate that amazing 1/48 scale German submarine kit which appears to be a full-on museum quality FULL INTERIOR 'cutaway' kit? 

(that, BTW, is likely part of the trigger for Jamie's Facebook challenge.)

Then the problem of reconciling the filming sets with the physical interior of the model and blah blah blah. 

A 44" plastic model of the Eagle would be neat. I really don't think Crowdfunding is the way to get that done. As we all know, have discussed endlessly, the ONLY way things get done is to have the WILL to make them happen. 

If R2 looked at the ROI of the 22" Eagle kit and saw how the minimal tooling worked to increase the profit margin, they may be tempted, STRONGLY tempted to copy that business model again. I'm sure the added bump of having the work externally funded by Crowdfunding makes the project irresistible. 

But that's NUMBERS, not PEOPLE. People have to want it and I just don't think there's 5000 people in the U.S. that want to give R2 $200 upfront (and commit to $200 more on delivery. I would bet ANYTHING costs will push the price over $400) for a model that may come out in 2018. Maybe. Depends. 

F that S man. Why not crowdfund that postponed new-tool Galileo? There's a surefire test of the concept for you. THAT is the kind of thing that would succeed. Or a Mk. IX Hawk, either a re-creation of the original MPC kit or a new tool in a new scale. 

*sigh*


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## spock62 (Aug 13, 2003)

With so many other kits they could be doing (Hawk, 1/1000 Ent-C thru E, Galileo, Alien, 1/72 Eagle, etc.) I don't see why they would even consider putting their resources into a 44" kit that few would actually purchase. If they do this, it will probably put other kits on the back burner. While I understand the "bigger is better" way of thinking, I'd rather see a variety of new-tool kits, from multiple franchises, then one bigger kit of an already big kit.


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## Xenodyssey (Aug 27, 2008)

Saw this on Facebook and already commented on there. But people here have mentioned other points. I too would much rather have a new tool 11" Eagle. Or a re-released or new Hawk. Or even separate pods for the existing 22" eagle. I can neither afford or display a 44" model.


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## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

I'd like to suggest another data point.

I don't follow the R2 blog obsessively. I probably should, that's bad on my part. I generally trust some kind soul will post about news so I can catch up.

Saying that, one thing that seems consistent in my mind at least, it appears that Jamie doesn't suggest things until and unless it's something already mooted by higher levels. What I'm suggesting is that R2 has ALREADY been discussing making a 44" Eagle, see my earlier comment about what I figure is the crazy good ROI generated by the minimal tooling used in the 22" Eagle kit. 

So *IF* Round 2 is ALREADY figuring out the math for a 44" Eagle kit, and they can talk people into laying down the tooling cost upfront, that would look really GREAT on their balance sheet. 

Man, can't they just make some kits and not mess around with this nonsense? CROWDFUND THE *[email protected]# GALILEO!!

I think much more than 5000 people would jump at that.


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## The_Engineer (Dec 8, 2012)

I'm not surprised about talk on making a 44" Eagle as a styrene model kit. Personally, I doubt if I would get one (even though I wouldn't mind having one) due to the size and cost. I find the 12" Eagle models too small and the 22" model size just 'right'. I think around 22" (to 30") is about the upper limit of what most people would have space for and could afford. Going bigger to 44" is a niche market catering to some people that really want one, can afford it and have the space to display it. Will it sell, yes it would but for a lower volume not the amount that the 22" model has. I would rather have something new like a Hawk and Swift in the same scale as the 22" Eagle and an Ultra Probe CM (larger scale) than a larger version of an existing model.


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## Hunk A Junk (Jan 28, 2013)

Soooooo, making a 44" Eagle is something Round 2 would actually consider, but a 1/350 K'tinga is just something that can't possibly no way no how ever ever be done and anyone suggesting they try is just a fool who doesn't understand the economics of the model business.

Gotcha.

:drunk:


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## irishtrek (Sep 17, 2005)

Hell, why not a new tool 537 scale Enterprise refit and an Excelsior in the same scale with build options for NX, NCC and refit NCC???


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## Bwain no more (May 18, 2005)

Or they could just cut to the chase, hire another shady soccer mom to run their PayPal account and let a quarter of a million dollars or so slip away unnoticed; seems like it would be ALOT easier.
Tom


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## Proper2 (Dec 8, 2010)

Unless there is a new Space 1999 production in the works and there is a call for 4-foot Eagle filming model, I personally consider the idea of such a prodigious thing as almost vulgar and certainly excessive.


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## edge10 (Oct 19, 2013)

Hunk A Junk said:


> Soooooo, making a 44" Eagle is something Round 2 would actually consider, but a 1/350 K'tinga is just something that can't possibly no way no how ever ever be done and anyone suggesting they try is just a fool who doesn't understand the economics of the model business.
> 
> Gotcha.
> 
> :drunk:


Why invest in models for that show from the 60's, no one has even heard of, I think it's called Star Track or something. They want to do kits based around that highly successful 70s show, that everyone is buzzing about (no, not 'That 70's Show', although a model of the Vista Cruiser...).


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

The 44" eagle is a niche market of a niche market. From what I have seen on the Eagle Transporter site it would be popular with a lot of members, but most of those members already have one. Those who would like to get another one (or have been wanting a 44" but did not like/afford a Garage Kit) could be counted on customers, but I do not think there are 5000 of them. 

IMO I think Round 2 is testing the waters to see if such a kit could be produced with crowdfunding, if so it will proceed. This will also put to bed those vocal fans out there who have been wanting a larger kit and wanted R2 to make one. 

I am not real keen on a major company resorting to crowdfunding for producing their own products. Round 2 has floated this before at a convention with a multiple choice ballot and that seemed to go nowhere. If they want to consider a subject to make a kit of, they already have a staff in marketing to make such a determination. Run the numbers, roll the dice and make a commitment, that is how business works. 

If they had only had the courage to continue production development of the Galileo we would be singing praises of them instead of scratching our heads. They have the surveys already on what people want to buy, just use those.


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## Hunk A Junk (Jan 28, 2013)

Richard Baker said:


> If they had only had the courage to continue production development of the Galileo we would be singing praises of them instead of scratching our heads.


Truth. I hate to say it, but stepping back it looks more and more that the 22" Eagle kit was a fluke of successful execution. They kept its development on the down-low, they announced it with a short window until release (six months), and they delivered a solid kit that filled a long overdue void in fans' collections. Compared to even successful efforts like the 1/350 TOS E (that still had problems -- like the grid lines), it was exceedingly professional. Lot of praise singing. Unfortunately, making that one kit succeed seems to have come at the cost of fumbling the ball on a lot of other things, most notably Trek's 50th anniversary (I won't fault them for a good effort updating the Excelsior kit).


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

And now 24 hours later R2 has announced they can't do the 44" Eagle because it would infringe on another licensee.


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

swhite228 said:


> And now 24 hours later R2 has announced they can't do the 44" Eagle because it would infringe on another licensee.


You would think Round 2 would have checked on something that fundamental before saying anything public...

R2 is a very confusing company- they have moments of greatness with lots of WTF's?!?! sprinkled about.


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## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

swhite228 said:


> And now 24 hours later R2 has announced they can't do the 44" Eagle because it would infringe on another licensee.



I just...

I mean, OK, I recall that at least one company made 44" 'replica' finished models, don't I recall that as something Product Enterprises did before they went belly-up and got absorbed by some other company? 

(I want to say it was whoever it was that bought up Dinky Toys and Corgi, a kind of 'Round 2 for British manufactures' kinda sorta)

but that was, what, 10 years ago? Maybe more?

And wouldn't making a finished 'prop replica' be a different license from 'plastic assembly kit' ?

Well, whatever. Echoing the spirit of what Mr. Baker says, I guess this is the story from R2 TODAY. Tomorrow may be something different. 

And I guess this in a way puts paid to my statement that Jamie doesn't mention things unless they've already been mooted by the higher ups.


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

Sixteen12, which used to be Product Enterprise, is the holder of the 44" Eagle license. Google brings you to a page of 1999 items, all out of stock, curiously just about all of them are 22" Eagle variants, no mention of a 44".

Sixteen 12 Collectibles Ltd - Prop replicas - Space: 1999

I wonder why, if they have the license for 22" Eagles why Round 2 was allowed to produce their kit in the first place since Sixteen12 having the license for the 44" is preventing R2.


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## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

Richard Baker said:


> Sixteen12, which used to be Product Enterprise, is the holder of the 44" Eagle license. Google brings you to a page of 1999 items, all out of stock, curiously just about all of them are 22" Eagle variants, no mention of a 44".
> 
> Sixteen 12 Collectibles Ltd - Prop replicas - Space: 1999
> 
> I wonder why, if they have the license for 22" Eagles why Round 2 was allowed to produce their kit in the first place since Sixteen12 having the license for the 44" is preventing R2.


*ding ding ding ding*

I think, and I am not a lawyer, I *suspect* it may all come down to phrasing. (no, not in an Archer way!  )

If the question was phrased " we want to make a kit JUST LIKE the 44" filming model, a prop replica" that may have kicked off a reply (because the person on the other end being clueless and not really reading or paying attention) "Oh, well, prop replica, no, you can't do that, that's licensed by someone else" and boom goes the nitro. 

Or of course most likely, it's a 'blame the dog' distraction to cool down any heat being generated. "Hey, we probably shouldn't have mentioned this, we WANT to do it but gosh darn the dog ate our homework (nasty people won't let us do it) "


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## The_Engineer (Dec 8, 2012)

Sixteen 12 started out making 12" Eagle models then switched and made a set of 22" Eagle models. After that they were planning on doing 44" Eagle model(s) but that fell through. They may have been pre-orders taken on the 44" model. I believe it has been a few years and no model has been produced, it's basically vapourware. I'm not sure what is going on with Sixteen 12 and whether there is a time-limit on their license or not.


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## Captain Robert April (Jul 5, 2016)

Could also be a case of, "You wanna make 'em? Buy our license." Kind of like having a web domain that you can't actually do anything with, so you just wait for someone to buy the thing off of you and hopefully pay enough to make the whole thing worthwhile.


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## ken1701 (Mar 22, 2010)

i think the problem is not sixteen 12 but rogue studios as they make ready built 44 inch eagles so they must have the license.


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

ken1701 said:


> i think the problem is not sixteen 12 but rogue studios as they make ready built 44 inch eagles so they must have the license.


Rogue Studios no longer has the license. They posted on Facebook that they were giving it up due to another company claiming to also hold the license for a 44" Eagle. Given the tone of their post I assumed that the company who oversees the license for Space 1999 may have awarded it to several companies and when there was a complaint left it to the companies themselves to fight it out.

The next studio scale ship from Rogue is the Falcon from Star Wars.


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

swhite228 said:


> Rogue Studios no longer has the license. They posted on Facebook that they were giving it up due to another company claiming to also hold the license for a 44" Eagle. Given the tone of their post I assumed that the company who oversees the license for Space 1999 may have awarded it to several companies and when there was a complaint left it to the companies themselves to fight it out.
> 
> The next studio scale ship from Rogue is the Falcon from Star Wars.


I do hope Rogue checked tbeir paperwork very carefully - the Falcon is subject which has ended many companies with C&Ds, they are very protective about that ship


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## ken1701 (Mar 22, 2010)

so the big question is who does own the license to making 44inch eagles if rogue no longer makes them and sixteen 12 does not have one in the pipework. round 2 should get together with this mystery license holder and make the kit together.


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## spock62 (Aug 13, 2003)

Round2 should be thankful that they can't do this kit. Between it's "no room to display it" size and high price, there would be few buyers. IMHO, it would just waste their limited resources and probably put a hold on other projects.


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## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

spock62 said:


> Round2 should be thankful that they can't do this kit. Between it's "no room to display it" size and high price, there would be few buyers. IMHO, it would just waste their limited resources and probably put a hold on other projects.


But remember, the stated plan was to use crowdfunding to pay the upfronts (design, tooling, blah blah) and they figured that if they got 5000 people to pony up a 50% deposit (5000 x $200=one MILLION Dollars) they were going to make the kit.

Now, tooling is tooling, assuming they were going to basically scale up the 22" Eagle kit, with it's minimal use of molds due to duplicate shots but adding the complications of larger size and possible changes due to stronger materials like maybe a metal spine, you're still looking at no more than $200,000 for all that if prices still are true.

Plus those 5000 people are on the hook for the REST of the price, another $200 each, so Two Million Dollars in R2's pocket.

That's a pretty darn sweet profit margin in that concept. Can you IMAGINE how the eyes of the bean counters lit up when they ran that?


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

spock62 said:


> Round2 should be thankful that they can't do this kit. Between it's "no room to display it" size and high price, there would be few buyers. IMHO, it would just waste their limited resources and probably put a hold on other projects.


This whole exercise could be Round 2's way of getting those who wanted a large kit to shut up about it. "See folks, we really do care but our handsxare tied "..


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## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

We don't know the motivation for Jamie's challenge regarding a 44" Eagle 'prop replica' kit. Was it to post something so outrageous that it would generate further traffic and thus be able to show 'eyeballs' to the Higher Ups as proof of interest, was it to float a trail balloon on the concept of crowdfunding models? Was he just 'poking the bear' because he had nothing better to do at the time? Unknown. 

But if the idea was to 'focus test' the concept of crowdfunding models, I still say the perfect test case is that postponed new-tool Galileo. 

Consider this math: I we assume that R2 would ask a high price for this, maybe $150..no, that won't fly, let's call it $75. That sound about right for a 1/32 scale kit at today's prices? (mind, I would PREFER something in the $30 range but that ain't happening  ) (crap, I forgot, was this meant to be 1/24 scale in the original duscussion? Well, whatever, $75 seem more logical for a pricepoint so let's play that out, hah?) 

OK, so, same rules. 5000 people need to sign up and put down 50% (call it $40).

5000 x $40 = $200,000. By all accounts that's more than enough for tooling and other pre-production. 

Think Trek model fandom could pull together 5000 people willing to pony up $40 (and $35 later) for that oft-delayed new tool Galileo Shuttlecraft? I strongly suspect the answer would be yes. I think if they opened a 'retailer' level where approved retail partners could pre-pay for case quantity they'd have even more success. I would guess that subscription would hit goal within a month. 

And even if there wasn't a 'retailer' level it would fill up fast. Stretch goals could be re-popping the original AMT kit (which some WOULD like regardless of how cruddy the fidelity to the real thing is), maybe with some new tooling additions or optional improvements. 

If someone wants to float this to Jamie or put it out there as "there's this crazy guy who thinks he knows stuff, here's what he said, how crazy is he?" kind of thing, that's fine by me. 

Who knows? Something might happen, hah?


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## robiwon2 (Jun 26, 2016)

Hey, you know something, I wonder if this was the Big Holy Grail kit he was talking about a month or so ago..........?


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## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

robiwon2 said:


> Hey, you know something, I wonder if this was the Big Holy Grail kit he was talking about a month or so ago..........?


Hurm. Is a 44" 'studio scale' replica model of the Eagle really a Holy Grail kit, given how well received the 22" Eagle was? Maybe more a "Holy Moly, REALLY?!" kit. 

Honestly, I can only think of one kit I would consider for Holy Grail...no, strike that, there's a few. I was going to say 'Planet of the Apes spaceship in commercial release styrene plastic' but I'd still like Aoshima to start cranking out some decent sized new-tool kits from UFO and that 1/1000 scale Enterprise-D that seems so inevitable yet never discussed...


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## Opus Penguin (Apr 19, 2004)

Well the news is out now:

Collector Model |


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

Opus Penguin said:


> Well the news is out now:
> 
> Collector Model |


Yawn.

So the big surprise is the same kit with a poster, new decal sheet and an autograph.

Great for those who crave every tin-box special edition collectors kit I suppose.
It would have been almost something if they had bothered to slip in a 1/48 Moon Buggy mini kit.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Meh.
I wanna Galileo.


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## spock62 (Aug 13, 2003)

Opus Penguin said:


> Well the news is out now:
> 
> Collector Model |


Mostly a big "nothing burger". They should have just offered a supplemental decal sheet with just the gray panel markings for sale separately and called it a day. They seem to have a bad habit of wasting the licenses they have on somewhat lame reissues.


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## Hunk A Junk (Jan 28, 2013)

Argh...

Hey, model companies?

JUST. MAKE. MODELS.

Not toys. Not "collectible exclusives with mini-posters and exclusive signed autographs." Gawd. WHY?!??!?

I don't know about anyone else, but isn't the whole point of modeling to be creative about assembling some miniature version of reality (even if "reality" is a sci-fi prop or digital asset)?

I swear, it's like these companies can't bear the thought of just being REALLY good at making high quality models. They'll put virtually unlimited resources into new packaging and useless bells and whistles, but ask them to maybe, possibly pretty please make an accurate and affordable kit and it somehow just can't happen.

Jesus. I need a drink.


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## robiwon2 (Jun 26, 2016)

Congrats to those who collect this kind of stuff. It would be very cool to have an actual autograph by Brian Johnson, the new decals are great for those who just have to have them. But, yeah, kind of a snoozer if this was supposed to be a big announcement.

Heck I love the Eagle, but I don't even have one of the 22's yet. And I'm not paying $200 for decals and an autograph.

I'll pick up a standard 22 at next years WF for $50...and spend the rest on aluminum bells!


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

Most people who wanted a 22" Eagle now have one. If Round 2 were to offer a new Eagle/Pod configuration then a lot of people might be tempted to get a second kit.
Offering the same kit with a couple of collectors perks is not going to do it. The decal sheet is a nice addition, but not worth buying another big kit over.

Sadly it looks like the idea of Round 2 offering just an alternate pod kit alone (without the entire Eagle) appears very unlikely after this.


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## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

Opus Penguin said:


> Well the news is out now:
> 
> Collector Model |


Really? REALLY?! That's it? Poster and a new decal sheet and an autograph? 

*sigh*

Guys, I love you like mad but at this rate, you're going to run out of foot to shoot. I mean, if the goal is to shoot yourselves in the foot again and again, you're doing a GREAT job of that, but you're running out of foot. 

They'll sell some of these, I have no doubt. The allure of the RARE! COLLECTABLE BUY IT NOW!! will get them that at the very least, but I suspect they're gonna have a hard time selling even 500 units. 

And naturally, if this fails to reach sales target this will tell the beancounters that Space:1999 is a dead license and they shouldn't do anything more with it. 

IT'S NOT THE LICENSE OR THE FANDOM, IT'S THE FOOLISH WAY YOU'RE USING IT!!!!

CRIPES. 

I feel sorry for Jamie. I couldn't handle his job, to be the cheerleader to fandom for these... misguided efforts.


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

I think most of the buyers will be people hoping to score big by reselling such a rare collectible on eBay.


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## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

Richard Baker said:


> I think most of the buyers will be people hoping to score big by reselling such a rare collectible on eBay.


Yes, I agree. I have spoken out for YEARS against this kind of thinking, catering to a small crowd who don't buy things for the LOVE of whatever it is, but solely for the thrill of 'flipping' the item for some limited window profit, the buzz of buying, say, a Hot Wheels car for a buck or two and managing to score $50 online because THEY got to the toy store at 6 AM to find that one, special, SOOPER RARE 'treasure hunt' car.

But it IS a small window of opportunity. With a model like this, if you can't off-load it FAST, if someone won't pay you $300 or more (within a few days to a month) for that $200 kit you bought, that thing turns into an alligator, eating up your profit margin, costing you money because that cost is all tied up. 

That's why retailers have clearance sales. It's better to move the stock and get SOMETHING for it rather than have it sit and sit and sit, taking up space, costing you taxes.

I'm sure there are speculators sitting on that first release of the 1/350 Classic Enterprise kit. I bet they're banging their heads in frustration over the release of the 'smooth saucer' version. OTOH if you don't care about grid lines you'll probably be able to get a good deal on those kits soon... 

Anyway, it's a limited, closed market. There's no GROWTH possible when you cater to the speculators. It keeps the product out of the hands of those that actually APPRECIATE the subject, and the high speculator 'aftermarket' price keeps it from becoming popular. 

So, yeah, OK, maybe R2 manages to snooker 500 people into buying this crap thing. Paying a large premium for a sheet of decals, a poster and an autograph. Won't mean a thing, because it doesn't grow the brand. We'll STILL have a fight on our hands trying to get a kit of the Mk. IX Hawk (new tool or some kind of re-pop of the MPC kit), we STILL have a fight on our hands to get some new Pods for the existing kit. 

arrgggghhhh.


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## robn1 (Nov 17, 2012)

I want a 1/48 Hawk.


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## robiwon2 (Jun 26, 2016)

I'm just wondering if the 22 was not as big a sales success as we all thought. Could it have been they needed to add these special offerings to move the back up of kits out? I have never seen one at either of my hobby shops.


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

Word was that it sold well enough for Round 2 to consider it a success. Like the larger kits (1:350 Enterprises, Moebius Flying Sub) it cost a fair chunk of change so it does not sell as fast as the $50 and under kits- I had to network for mine and paid for it over time.

I don't think they are just trying to move unsold product, I think they are just trying to see additional kits to collectors with this 'special edition'. Ignoring the other two perks- I do not hang posters anymore and don't really care about autographs, the decal sheet is the only significant addition. If they had added something else- a small sprue with standing astronaut figures or a moon buggy they would have something worthwhile.

Like with they measly offerings for the grand Anniversary of Trek, I think they marketing department is rather cynically trying to substitute what customers really want with [email protected] nothings. In another thread I was denigrating R2 for relying on crowdfunding instead of proper marketing for product development, now after this I wonder if they really have a marketing department at all. Most of this seems to be from the mind of a grad student waving his hands in the air and believing he is the smartest man in the room.


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## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

robiwon2 said:


> I'm just wondering if the 22 was not as big a sales success as we all thought. Could it have been they needed to add these special offerings to move the back up of kits out? I have never seen one at either of my hobby shops.


It's an expensive kit, it's a large kit. Like I said about the scalper class of customer, the same 'item becomes an alligator eating your profit' rule applies to retail. 

If a hobby shop is unsure there's a customer for a given item, they're just not going to stock that item. Now, if they're sharp they'll have nice, big, clear "Don't see it? Ask! maybe we can order it!" signs all over the place. It's also a good 'upsale' conversation starter if there's actual customer service employed and not the 'grunting guy behind the counter' store. 

I agree with Richard. I don't think this idea represents re-boxing dead stock and refreshing it with the poster, decal sheet and autograph card. I DO think it's a fairly cynical 'low cost high margin' reissue.


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## eimb1999 (Sep 8, 2007)

Hunk A Junk said:


> Soooooo, making a 44" Eagle is something Round 2 would actually consider, but a 1/350 K'tinga is just something that can't possibly no way no how ever ever be done and anyone suggesting they try is just a fool who doesn't understand the economics of the model business.
> 
> Gotcha.
> 
> :drunk:


SOOO cool when the naysayers like this get totally OWNED! LOL! :grin2:

Polar Lights Models: Klingon K't'inga test shots are coming! | Collector Model


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## Hunk A Junk (Jan 28, 2013)

eimb1999 said:


> SOOO cool when the naysayers like this get totally OWNED! LOL! :grin2:
> 
> Polar Lights Models: Klingon K't'inga test shots are coming! | Collector Model


Dude, why you ragging on a post from a year and a half ago?? At the time, R2 was the one saying they'd like to make a 350 K'Tinga but didn't think they could justify it economically. I'm thrilled that they decided to do it, but that doesn't mean I was a "naysayer." I was going on what they were saying at the time. Yup, OWNED, I tell ya. I was OWNED! :willy_nilly: :beatdeadhorse:


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

The 1:350 K'Tinga was a big surprise considering Round 2 made it very clear on several occasions that they would be moving from large expensive kits to smaller ones which could sell better. IIRC they specifically stated that the box the new 1:1000 Defiant is in would be considered the large end size of what they would offer in the future- the future kits would fit into it or smaller boxes.

It is not just selling the item from stores that is considered when LHS place stock orders- large boxes take up a lot of room on limited shelf space- about six smaller kits which would sell well can fit into the space one 1:350 TOS-E would take up.

I am delighted Round 2 has decided to produce a 1:350 K'Tinga- it was most unexpected because of their earlier pronouncements.


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## spock62 (Aug 13, 2003)

Richard Baker said:


> The 1:350 K'Tinga was a big surprise considering Round 2 made it very clear on several occasions that they would be moving from large expensive kits to smaller ones which could sell better. IIRC they specifically stated that the box the new 1:1000 Defiant is in would be considered the large end size of what they would offer in the future- the future kits would fit into it or smaller boxes.



Actually, Round 2 never stated that the Defiant would be the largest Trek kit they would offer, that came from a poster who was quoting a friend that claims they heard it from someone at Round 2. Other then that, I don't recall Round 2 making any such announcement.

I'm glad to see that Round 2 is continuing to do Trek kits of all sizes, I just hope they do a K'Tinga in 1/1000 in the next year or so, since the 1/350 is too big for me to display.


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## Captain Robert April (Jul 5, 2016)

I'd still like to see a 1/350 D-7, a 1/350 Botany Bay, and a 1/350 NX refit conversion kit.

And a 1/1000 E-D, E-C, and E-E, just to complete the line.


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