# High Tech Tools



## TJETDRAGRACER (Jan 25, 2008)

I want them High Tech Tools for my slot cars but them will have to wait till I start making good money again. 
There like the ultimate high tech gadgets.
A $139.99 Dollars DYNO Machine & A $59.99 Dollars Arm Balancer. 

Iam just trying to save up Forty Bucks for an Arm installation tool from RTHO 
and that's going to take a few weeks.


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## smokinHOs (May 30, 2006)

*Tools..*

Hey Tjet.. where outside Flint are you. Curious..

Thanks- Marc and marcus


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

The old saying is "speed doesn't come cheap..." or something to that effect. This mantra was likely put forth by someone making money off of selling speed parts...

Any hobby is all about deciding how you want to engage in it personally. I don't think everyone is playing at the same level, whether you're talking racing, collecting, modeling, building, etc. It really comes down to deciding and recognizing whether you are happy playing at the level you are playing at. What's the impediment? Finances may be the main impediment, time may be the main impediment, or even how much attention you give to the hobby versus everything else in your life, like work, family, and friends outside of the hobby. Being a lifelong, dedicated amateur racer and ignoring E-Bay frees up money, time, and attention for other things in life without detracting from my love of the hobby. It's all about reaching and maintaining balance, it's not about having all the toys.


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

*Bio-tools*

Yer hands, eyes, and ears are the most important high tech tools...then get the basics. From the hip, I figure it in this order. 

1. rtho gear removal press is first, because you have to take things apart without savaging it before you can change it. It also performs the pinion functions too...that's what the little hole by itself is for. 

2. a simple comm tool, answers the most important question first.

3. poising tool, a balanced armature makes all the difference in the world!

4. rtho install press, because after you take it apart you have to put it back together, it performs all the functions required to set up a gear plate.

5. a wheel removal and install system, I'm not particular about who provides it so long as it drives them on and off.

6. The rtho c-clamp style puller, handy for AFX arm pinions and petrified rims.
More of a demolition tool. Good back-up when all else fails.

Once you have the basic stuff organized and get familiar with their use, things go a lot easier and you can concentrate on the details. Then you can go out and buy all the stuff that doesnt really have much to do with actually building the chassis.


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

You can make some of your own tools.

A cheap dollar store "C" clamp with a hole drilled in it's face is one homemade press you can build,if you haven't already got something along those lines.

A poising tool for this hobby is nothing more then a set of razorblades or drillblanks set on something flat.

Here's a couple homemade ones,if you haven't already stumbled across this yet.

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=348204


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## TEAM D.V.S. (Nov 11, 2007)

try this for your dyno ! 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/120695011534?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649
http://slotters.weebly.com/index.html


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## slotking (May 27, 2008)

it is a tach, not a dyno
there is no load so it only shows top speed which can be very misleading

I do have use a tach as well, i used to check arms, I can pick 4 arm that show say 26k on the tach

on the dyno, with the load, the u may only have 1 race-able arm
if you use a load free dyno that uses only the laser on a well you do not know if you have a car with torque to puch out of the turn

heck building a fray car
but in some dash magnets, it will show slower than some stock mag!
but be faster on the track.

You can adjust the load on the VRP dyno. If you lazy or not skilled like me!
than buying tools is a lot easier!


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## Boosted-Z71 (Nov 26, 2007)

Matching the torque required on the track to the dyno load is the key to being able to get good data from the dyno, RPM under load is also a good piece of information as well.

Boosted


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## TJETDRAGRACER (Jan 25, 2008)

*Home Made Arm installation tool*

Thank You for all the tips on tools. I made this Arm installation tool out of a small adjustable clamp just by drilling a small hole in the top of it. 
It works grate, A lot better then using a pair of pliers.


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## SCJ (Jul 15, 1999)

TJETDRAGRACER said:


> Thank You for all the tips on tools. I made this Arm installation tool out of a small adjustable clamp just by drilling a small hole in the top of it.





TJETDRAGRACER said:


> It works grate, A lot better then using a pair of pliers.





As you've already discovered, you don't have to spend lots of cash to make very functional tech tools.

To balance an arm (IMHO more important then ohm rating) you need a couple of items you probably have around the house.

*Supply list (arm balancer)*
2 old school razor blades (Be Careful, they are sharp!)
small block of wood
small torpedo level
glue, heavy tape
sand paper

Make width of wood block slightly smaller width then arm shafts you wish to balance (i.e. Tjet, tyco, g-plus all have different width). Attach razor blades to sides of wood (glue in place) making sure they are level, let dry. Once dry, place level on blades to confirm level at current location (use small pieces of tape under block of wood to adjust). Place arm shaft on blade edges and watch which pole of arm roles to bottom...this is your "heavy" side. Sand painted (on pancake arms) edges of “heavy” pole lightly until any pole will stand upright and any pole will sit downward. Your arm is now balanced......I've seen this done with a piece of aluminum channel from a screen door (Lowes?) in place of the block of wood/razor blades.


NOT mentioned on your list, but as important as balancing an arm IMHO.....a gauss meter to measure magnet strength!


*Supply List (Gauss Meter)*
Old school plastic film canister
small bolt and 2 nuts
Several penny's, BB's or washers

Drill a hole in the lid of film canister, place bolt through canister securing w/ one nut on each side of canister lid. Leave head of bolt on outside of lid and slightly raised from canister lid surface. Place several penny’s, BB’s or washers (your choice of dead weight) in canister and replace lid. Separate magnets by polarity (North & South). Take inside curve of each magnet (the part that pulls against your armature poles) and try to pick up the canister placing curve of magnet against curve of bolt head. Those magnets which do not pick up the canister are your weaker magnets, set them aside. Repeat process adding weight each time until you get one N and one S magnet that will pick up the canister…..these are your strongest set of magnets.

Hope this helps :thumbsup:

*----------------------------*
*www.SlotCarJohnnies.com*


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

Hey that's a pretty cool tool TJ.:thumbsup:

If you can build that,you can probably build yourself enough tools to get by for now,till cash flows a little free'r.

You can build yourself an el-cheapo dyno.
With an old Tomy or Tyco can motor,a wallwart and multi-meter,do a search for homebuilt dyno's,on here,there should be lots show up.
They might not be perfect,but they'll get you by till you have some cash to spring for a fancy one

Boosted's built himself what i'd call the "Ultimate" dyno,lol.:thumbsup:
But it takes a little cash and some time to duplicate his.
It does everything,but drive the car,i'm waiting for him to "train" it to do that too,lol :wave:

I'm still waiting for his video,lol.
Might have to send my camera guy over to help him:thumbsup:


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## Boosted-Z71 (Nov 26, 2007)

Hornet said:


> m still waiting for his video,lol.
> Might have to send my camera guy over to help him:thumbsup:


Unfortunately I am still working on the real cars trying to get my daily driver back to it's dependable state, I have not forgot about the video, just on the back burner.

You all know I can definitely use a good cameraman.

Boosted


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## slotking (May 27, 2008)

here why I use the VRP arm balancer.

I found that used arms (been a car) can hold a magnetic charge.

So i went with 2 neo magnets on a vice to balance arms.

then I tried the VRP dyno with the helper. I can get a arm to spin for a long time, ie no real interference in the balance process. plus i will not cut my finger off! LOL

I been able to fix arms for others that have been razor balanced.

yes you can make a lot of tools and they work.
but I like the VRP dyno, it has circuitry to let you flip a switch to drop down to 5 volts and I can get steady digital numbers, (I hate analog).

the arm press you mad is good.
I have a tool in my head, but need to find a tool make to make it


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

LOL,not everybody has connections to Dave at VRP Mike,some of us still have to pay for his tools..

I'd also be mighty suspecting of the guy doing the balancing job,if you get better results from Daves tool.
I'm thinking they either didn't know what they were doing,or were rushing the balance job.

Just for the record Mike,they'res a VRP dyno in our group,it never gets used,but my old school dyno's do,just stating a fact for you to ponder

Rub your arms on an old screwdriver when you take them out,de-magnetizes them

Jeff you still fighting the heads on your daily driver,i feel for you,used to be a head gasket wasn't to big a job,but that was back when you could actually see the engine.
Rick


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

Hornet said:


> Rub your arms on an old screwdriver....
> 
> 
> Rick


hahahahahaha....sorry...I cant help myself


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## Mexkilbee (Apr 17, 2008)

Hey tjet racer, another cheap way to match magnets is to get yourself a cheap compass and a ruler (wood/plastic). tape/glue compass to end of ruler and point south. Slide magnet up scale till you you get needle to spin around to magnet mark or note where this happened on scale/ruler, grabb another and do same. soon you'll have a bunch of magnets grouped by strength. 
I used to do mine this way till I saved enough for the BRP Mag Matcher. i double checked the mags already measured, and they were close. i dont regret buying it ( i like the digital number), but if it broke, i would'nt rush out to get another knowing this way worked so well.


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## slotking (May 27, 2008)

> Hey tjet racer, another cheap way to match magnets is to get yourself a cheap compass and a ruler (wood/plastic). tape/glue compass to end of ruler and point south. Slide magnet up scale till you you get needle to spin around to magnet mark or note where this happened on scale/ruler, grabb another and do same. soon you'll have a bunch of magnets grouped by strength.


I was going to post something close to this.
use grid paper place a anything magnetic ot 1 grid spot, slide a magnet towards it, when the metal moves to the mag, check what line it was at.
you have your ref

rick, on the VRP balancer, no if and or buts! it works better!
i have work with folks who were doing this back in the 1800s!!
heck I rework some arms that were dynamic balanced, and I can hear feel the difference in the cars.
so here is the deal, send me you fastest tyco timed stock are. I will balance it, and test for 1 year! then send it back and you can test it:dude::thumbsup:



So on the dyno, it easy to take to the races? My VRP fits in my race box with no problem, quick setup where ever i go. It helps a ton for pre race tune up. if they are not using it, is due to a problem or experience, or whatever? heck I will beat up my son get $20 and buy it:thumbsup:


wish i did get VRP tools, it free, I wan a SRM bad! I like, used it the other day at friends house! wow it made it easy to find the right shoe setup


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## smalltime (Jun 3, 2006)

Slot Car Johny's idea is cool, I'll need to try it.

The old school way I heard of went like this:

Get youself a map reading compass.(IE big dial,easy to read lines, pretty accurate)

Also procure a ruler with both metric and english measurements.

Find a spot in you abode that is both level, and 3 feet away from anything that could be made from iron/steel. This includes the floor, 'cause there are these things called rebar, and plumbing pipes.

Align the compass so that it reads magnetic north, and align the ruler at 90 degrees to the compass, east or west, it doesn't matter. Tape it down.

Get out your magnets, align one of them at a right angle to the ruler, with the concave side of the "C" towards the compass. Move it towards the compass 'till it reads at 10 degrees on the compass dial. Write down the measurment (in metric) down on the magnet. The north and south magents will move the compass in the opposite directions, so keep this in mind. you will be looking for 10 degrees and 350 degrees depending......

The biggest numbers are the strongest magnets.

Cheap and easy.


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## oddrods (Feb 6, 2007)

Years ago I used to sell a magnet matcher based off the compass and ruler and it was very reliable. You can see a review of it at HOWORLD under Mongrel Racing Magnet Matcher. I no longer sell it because there are electronic versions that were about the same price although they were no more accurate. Some lessions I learned when building mine were:
1.Use an oil filled compass for smoother operation.
2. where and when you take your measurment makes a big difference. Different locations around your house(or even outside) will give different results. results will vary from day to day allthough once you have a matched set they will remain matched. 
Short of an actual gauss meter even electronic units have these same limitations. Hope this makes sense.
Rob
Mongrel Racing


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

I'm real old school,i still use a bolt and a bunch of washers for magnet matching,lol

LOL,you're stretching things a whole lot now Mike.
I call "bull" on you're balancing act.
I don't care how good you are at static balancing with Daves static balancer, you're not gonna beat a dynamic spin balancer.
That's like saying your car tires are as well balanced when they come off an old bubble static balancer,as they are off a new high tech dynamic spin balancer,ain't cutting it Mike,lol.
Who's dynamic balanced arms are you talking about,they'res only one guy i know (Beadle) who's actually invested the multiple thousands of dollars it takes to buy a dynamic spin balancer for HO.
Don't get me wrong,Dave makes good tools no doubt about it,but they aren't the end-all and be-all as far as tools go.:wave:


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## slotking (May 27, 2008)

you never got dynamic balanced arms that we not truly balanced??

I have sent some out before I got my vrp tool to get rebalanced because i could feel it in the car! Sorry, 
just facts i have run into.


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

Who's doing the dynamic spin balance Mike,cause they suck at running it who-ever they are.

Mike,you're going against everything pretty well ever stated about static and dynamic balancing.
You're the only guy i know who says they can static balance something better then it can be spin balanced.
Now you're gonna have to explain how something balanced on a single plane is better balanced then something that's balanced on 2 or more planes

Mike here's an article for you to take a look at,pay attention to the very last paragraph

http://www.hinesindustries.com/balancing-articles/armature-balancing-tolerances.shtml


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## Boosted-Z71 (Nov 26, 2007)

I have both versions of the balancing tools, poising tool & a magnetic type that I built myself, as well as an RTHO magnetic T-jet balancer. I will say that I prefer the poising tool, as it incorporates the shaft true-ness into the balance equation, as it is what the arm balances on, and this is also true in the chassis as it runs. 

I have also seen armatures that the ends of the shaft were not square and the magnetic balance tool had problems with the arm pushing sideways in the magnetic suspension due to the shaft ends not being perfectly parallel in the setup. 

I also think that with t-jets what you feel as out of balance in the chassis, from my experience is due more to the comm plate not being true / flat, versus the arm balance. I have learned the hard way the correct process to balance, check shaft, check the com plate and then finally the balance. 

As for static vs dynamic, From 1/1 race car tires / and engine rotating assemblies I can tell you that when done correctly, a true dynamic balance is far superior. Depending on the final application that does not mean you cannot do a quality job with a static process. For our HO scale motors I think static is fine, but it takes some skill & understanding of what your doing, not only to the balance of the part but to the stack / magnetic field as well. I balance by removing weight, as I have not yet mastered adding epoxy to balance as of yet. 

Like was mentioned prior, the cost of a machine to due a true dynamic process is out of scale just to be used on HO armatures, it would take many, many armatures to re-coup your balance machine purchase costs. 

I have some arms that I feel run very smooth, Shaft is dead on straight, com plate is within .0002 of being flat and I did a very good static balance using the poising wheel, (where the arm will stop on any position and not kick forward or back at the end of the spin) but I would think if it were dynamic balanced it could even be better, which is something I would like to try sometime, comparing my balance to a good dynamic arm. 

Boosted


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## slotking (May 27, 2008)

> Now you're gonna have to explain how something balanced on a single plane is better balanced then something that's balanced on 2 or more planes


Nope 
I know that dynamic is better.
thats why i use them for inline arms, but after talking to a owner of a company that does for both very very large arms and small ones.
he did say the comes a point(very small arms) where dynamic really pays no benefit. Is that HO?? I do not know
ie the front to back balancing really does not help
but the static balance does make a difference. especially on pancake arms.

it does depend on the machine and the knowledge to use it.

at 1st, like I said I have sent some out to be rebalanced.
know i do my own, and the unit I use is that good that I now do my own


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## slotking (May 27, 2008)

> I have both versions of the balancing tools, poising tool & a magnetic type that I built myself, as well as an RTHO magnetic T-jet balancer. I will say that I prefer the poising tool, as it incorporates the shaft true-ness into the balance equation, as it is what the arm balances on, and this is also true in the chassis as it runs.
> 
> I have also seen armatures that the ends of the shaft were not square and the magnetic balance tool had problems with the arm pushing sideways in the magnetic suspension due to the shaft ends not being perfectly parallel in the setup.


correct
that why the VRP helper is key with his unit! 
here a shot from his web showing the helper tool









I use the magnetic balancer to find and eliminate the bad shafts or wobbly comm plates. I did this before either 1 came with their balancer.
the VRP help uses a bearing. that makes a huge difference
seen the spin for a long time, which means almost no resistance, which means better balancing


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

And how much does that cost??.

I give up Mike,you win,your VRP static balancer is better then a multi thousand dollar computor controlled Hines dynamic balancer.

Next time your talking to Gary at BSRT ask him the differances in a static and dynamic balancing Mike


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## Boosted-Z71 (Nov 26, 2007)

slotking said:


> the VRP help uses a bearing. that makes a huge difference seen the spin for a long time, which means almost no resistance, which means better balancing


So the Helper that your referring to is the black piece in the picture, correct? and it has a ball bearing in the end of it, or is this a bushing type bearing? If the helper spins in this setup your also adding mass to the arm so I would expect it to spin longer with more mass.

I still see an issue where one end of the armature can still push sideways, if not square and parallel to the magnet, The helper in this case is used as an unsupported live center, and even with those you can have run out in the setup, especially if the shaft is not straight, but it still possible the arm could still be balanced, to the balancer, and possibly not once installed in the chassis, as it now would be rotating around the outside surface of the shaft, not the centerline of the shaft as with the balancer & live center.

Oh and if your throwing away T-jet arms with crooked shafts or wobbly comm plates, PM me and I will send you my addy, I am always looking for T-jet stuff.

Boosted


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## smalltime (Jun 3, 2006)

I just buy from this guy:

http://dynamicarmatures.com/

Nothing but the highest quality and performance.


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## slotking (May 27, 2008)

boost
it does not add enough mass that it the reason is spins so long. it the lack of resistance. the spining is just to check for woble.

once you see the arm is true you then easily check where to cut.
it simply works better than any thing i have used before. Thats all i can say.

my arm become whisper quite and sound like dogs(no vibration) till they hit the track.

yes you can make you own, it cheap and easy, I both the razor blade tool and watch maker posing tool. my arms were never as quite as they are now.

This is my experience, your could be different! I will not argue the point. 

kind of like I run ,012 shoe springs in my SS, and others say it does not work!
my my springs are set softer than those running .009 springs


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## Boosted-Z71 (Nov 26, 2007)

Yeah Slot I am not trying to argue either, I really just want to know more about how you are using the helper and how it was made. Does the helper have a bearing in it or is it just a slip fit on the arm shaft?

I dont have much experience with in-lines, I prefer the pancake cars, and I agree everyone has there tuning differences.

Boosted


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## neorules (Oct 20, 2006)

Mark McVitte had the 20 some thousand dynamic balancer for a year or so before BSRT got theirs-- the writing was on the wall. After that the arms from Bsrt improved noticably even to the point of stock 6 ohmers throwing wires because of the increased rpm's, so now we have the $18 dollar stock arm, kevlar threaded, balanced epoxied and trued. They are improved I will say.


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

Here's an article on how to build a guass meter for next to nothing if your so inclined.
I've never built one,so i'm not sure how acurate it would be,but thought i'd pass the article on.

http://my.execpc.com/~rhoadley/magmeter.htm


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## tossedman (Mar 19, 2006)

Hornet said:


> Who's doing the dynamic spin balance Mike,cause they suck at running it who-ever they are.
> 
> Mike,you're going against everything pretty well ever stated about static and dynamic balancing.
> You're the only guy i know who says they can static balance something better then it can be spin balanced.
> ...


Interesting article Rick. Where do you dig these things up? Anyways, who has a pinion balancer? 

Todd


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## Boosted-Z71 (Nov 26, 2007)

tossedman said:


> Anyways, who has a pinion balancer?
> Todd


Answer: Rick will soon, just give him some time to round up the parts

Boosted


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

LOL,i'm not sure Todd.
Theres a bunch of good reading on Hines site:thumbsup:
The eyes aren't as good as they used to be,but i still enjoy reading :wave:

Damn comedians,they're everywhere.
Morning Jeff,lol
Rick


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## slotking (May 27, 2008)

Boosted-Z71

yes, there is a bearing in it


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## noddaz (Aug 6, 1999)

*That is interesting...*

Does this mean what I think it means?



> 2.0 Static And Dynamic Balance
> 
> Generally speaking, if most of the mass of a rotor is concentrated in a disc that is 5 to 10 times as large in diameter as in thickness, static balance will be sufficient. Rotors that have their mass distributed along their axis should be dynamically balanced. In the gray area between the extremes, each case must be examined individually.
> 
> If an armature has a particularly short stack, so that the correction planes are close together, it makes sense to do only “single-plane” (static) balancing. It is unlikely that this type of armature would have a significant amount of “two-plane” (couple) unbalance.


Interesting...
Possibly totally taken out of context, but interesting...
Scott


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