# Vincent Melted My O-Gauge Track!!



## Joe65SkylarkGS (Feb 15, 2010)

These are the older rims and tires .Never seen it before .I do remember seeing people posting this but it's a first for me.


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## Joe65SkylarkGS (Feb 15, 2010)

P.S. I posted the pics directly from my phone using Photo buckets mobile app .

Thanks for the help on that guys .

BTW. The tires are unmarked???


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## Dushkwoneshe (Apr 27, 2012)

.
Dang! That's the 'Berries...

I've seen it happen with stock TYCO, TOMY & LifeLike tires...

Too bad it couldn't be an old broken TYCO (or other) track piece...

John
.


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## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

that's a serious reaction.
how difficult was it to remove from track?


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## Joe65SkylarkGS (Feb 15, 2010)

It's melted Al. No removing the damage unfortunately .But the wheels are intact?!?!?!

Oh my bad .The car was barely stuck. Just touched it and it came right off .

I dunno wha happened


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## Tazman6069 (Mar 20, 2005)

Could it be a reaction with what you use to clean track?


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## slotcardan (Jun 9, 2012)

...........


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## Joe65SkylarkGS (Feb 15, 2010)

I never use any kind of chemicals r cleaner .Just dust off.


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## Dushkwoneshe (Apr 27, 2012)

.
If I can find the key to my old Timex watch display I converted for
slot cars, I'll post a pic of what stock Tomy & Tyco tires can do to 
LifeLike track... Have a damaged Tomy or Tyco 9" piece, also... somewhere...

John
.


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## Dslot (Sep 2, 2007)

Same thing happens with the old Aurora Russkit controllers. In storage the flex plastic of the wire insulation leaves scars on the hard plastic of the bodies wherever they touch for a long time. I now wind the wires and put them in a small ziplock bag to protect the controller body from them.

The problem is common in old toys where some parts were hard styrene and others were vinyl or other soft rubbery plastic. Ideal's popular Pirate Ship from the late '50s is a common example.










For storage, the masts and rigging were taken down and laid in the hull. Today, most have imprints of the vinyl rigging pieces burned into the deck.

As I understand it, some flexible plastics are flexible because they contain a fair amount of liquid solvent. In minute amounts, that solvent seeps out onto anything the part touches, and over time the minute amounts add up to cause the damage. 

But I thought silicone was inert and would not react with styrene. Maybe I was wrong.

-- D


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## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

I have read that the Mattel TYCO tires melted plastic track in a similar fashion that Joe described


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## Dushkwoneshe (Apr 27, 2012)

alpink said:


> I have read that the Mattel TYCO tires melted plastic track in a similar fashion that Joe described


Sometimes, even damage the wheel paint/wheel on the cars...

The tires on the Mattell HP X2 chassis' are *pre-deteriorated*...
Already cracked and out-of-round... Don't know if they *melt* the track, though...
Gonna try not to find out...

John
.


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## vaBcHRog (Feb 19, 2003)

alpink said:


> I have read that the Mattel TYCO tires melted plastic track in a similar fashion that Joe described



The lettered ones that came on the cheap chassis the use to sell melted track


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## Dushkwoneshe (Apr 27, 2012)

vaBcHRog said:


> The lettered ones that came on the cheap chassis the use to sell melted track


The yellow *Goodyear* ones?
.


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## vaBcHRog (Feb 19, 2003)

Dushkwoneshe said:


> The yellow *Goodyear* ones?
> .


Yep those are the ones


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## super8man (Jan 29, 2013)

That's a shame since those track pieces a lot of money. I used to make 1/32 urethane tires with different liquid color adders and to this day all the tires are as good as when I first popped them from the mold. I blame the cheap tires in your case. Shame about that track piece.


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## Dushkwoneshe (Apr 27, 2012)

Dushkwoneshe said:


> The yellow *Goodyear* ones?
> .





vaBcHRog said:


> Yep those are the ones


Thanks for the info... Always good to know...

For me, I vowed to never leave a car just *sitting* on the track,
regardless of the tire manufacturer, for long periods of time,
after I had my damage done...


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## scooke123 (Apr 11, 2008)

Moebius had the same problem with the vinyl tracks in their first release of the LIS Chariot. They were melting the parts in the box right away. Old Aurora armor kits with tracks had the same problem.


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

I first brought this up back in 2007...

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=192012&highlight=melt+track

Joe


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## Dslot (Sep 2, 2007)

Grandcheapskate said:


> I first brought this up back in 2007...
> http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=192012&highlight=melt+track


I remember the issue also came up later in regard to the tires on the slot car chassis that Tyco/Mattel was clearancing out online for $3.00 each. 

I was also very interested in JOEZ' reply in your 2007 thread:



> I have swapped out the JL tjet wheels for the JL pullback wheels and found that the pullback tyres, when exposed to oil will begin to melt and make a sticky mess! The pullback tyres are a plastic/vinyl, me thinks.


Not quite the same problem, but related. I've been wondering how the JL pullback wheels would work on powered cars. Apparently not so well with the tires that came on them. Too bad. The wheels look so great.

I went into my parts box where my *Weird Jack Rocket Science* "Bag o' Blems" tires have been sitting for years in neat stacks. Happy to report no marks on the clear hard plastic of the box. Weird Jack's silicone is apparently not outgassing any significant amount of solvent.

-- D


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

Dslot said:


> I remember the issue also came up later in regard to the tires on the slot car chassis that Tyco/Mattel was clearancing out online for $3.00 each.
> 
> -- D


Interestingly, the Mattel chassis tires apparently don't do anything while still in the little plastic baggie. I have a lot of those $3 chassis still bagged and nothing has happened. For any which are "loose" in a plastic box, I have them sitting on thin cardboard.

Joe


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## Dslot (Sep 2, 2007)

Grandcheapskate said:


> Interestingly, the Mattel chassis tires apparently don't do anything while still in the little plastic baggie. I have a lot of those $3 chassis still bagged and nothing has happened. For any which are "loose" in a plastic box, I have them sitting on thin cardboard.


Joe,
The bags would be polyethylene or similar-type plastic which, as I understand it, has a closed molecular structure that gives solvents no place to combine with the plastic molecule, (which is one reason we can't get paint to stick well to those track guardrails). They are not affected by outgassing volatiles from the tires. Tupperware-type flexible plastic containers wouldn't be either. But rigid, hard styrenes are highly vulnerable to whatever these kinds of tires are giving off. 

-- D


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

Joe, dont forget that you can repair that track using goop. Remember Boosted's 4 way intersection came out really good.


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## Dslot (Sep 2, 2007)

... and from now on, just display your cars on 9"R-90° curves. Then when the tires melt divots into them, chuck 'em out and just replace them with another from that beat-up box in the back of the closet.


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## Joe65SkylarkGS (Feb 15, 2010)

Bill Hall said:


> Joe, dont forget that you can repair that track using goop. Remember Boosted's 4 way intersection came out really good.


Hmm 

No kidding?? I don't recall Boosteds track. 

I never tried to goop before. :wave:

Thanks


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

Dslot said:


> Joe,
> The bags would be polyethylene or similar-type plastic which, as I understand it, has a closed molecular structure that gives solvents no place to combine with the plastic molecule, (which is one reason we can't get paint to stick well to those track guardrails). They are not affected by outgassing volatiles from the tires. Tupperware-type flexible plastic containers wouldn't be either. But rigid, hard styrenes are highly vulnerable to whatever these kinds of tires are giving off.
> 
> -- D


Must be the same situation with the rims since the tires do not seem to eat into them either. Otherwise you'd have to pull the tires off as soon as you got the chassis. They would also have been eaten while sitting in inventory at Mattel...although it doesn't seem they stayed in stock very long.

Joe


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## Rich Dumas (Sep 3, 2008)

A plasticizer is added to rigid plastics to make them flexible. An example of that is PVC, which is normally rigid, PVC tubing is flexible because it has a plasticizer. I used PVC tubing in the lab, but after a few years the plasticizer could leach out causing the tubing to get stiff. I suppose that if plasticizer leaches out of the tires it would soften a plastic like ABS, which is the type of styrene used to make sectional track. The tires could also damage the Sintra that is used for custom HO tracks.


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

Yet another reason to through the low quality sleazy urethane tires straight in the trash.

**********


Joe "Hmm

No kidding??"

Yessir Joe, Goop is really no different than another mud, spackle, or putty. Except the decided advantage that the color match will be identical and the bond will be permanent. I know O gauge straights dont grow on trees.

Use a chunk of vintage L&J as your donor. While its cooking, degrease your O gauge piece. Box out the wounds with duct tape. (in case ya slip on the next step) Then use a 45 degree hobby blade to scrape the "wounds" flush. Just scrape the pile up material down gradually. Pre wet the wounds with 3502, then apply some medium thick pre-mixed goop (thats the base thinned about 50/50) to the wounds and scrub it in a little. No need to get real crazy, just be sure youve liquefied and kinda stirred it all together. It'll self level a to a point. Let that cure for a a coupla days.

It'll shrink back like most mud. Just add more as required. Once you have the wounds built back up and well proud of the track surface and it's had a week er so to thoroughly dry. Block it off with 320 sand paper and grit down to 1200. Then we'll talk about how to "stipple" in the factory asphalt texture and blend it all down so's ya can tell.


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## Boosted-Z71 (Nov 26, 2007)

Joe, Bill is correct, goop is a great repair / fill media, I used it on the 4 lane intersection I built well over a year ago and no signs of any distress yet, I used it to fill gaps between the 4 pieces pretty much all over the intersection, and honestly after filling, drying, sanding and then treating the entire track with denatured alcohol you honestly cant tell where it was filled. 

Since I was bonding pieces together I treated the surfaces with full strength testors liquid glue then a layer of goop and clamped them together to dry, Dry time is the key, let it sit, you can decrease the dry time if you lightly sand the top just to remove the shine and let it dry again, the shine does come back. 

Boosted


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## Joe65SkylarkGS (Feb 15, 2010)

Link to a goop recipe???


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## Boosted-Z71 (Nov 26, 2007)

Its made of Testors 3502 liquid model Cement (Like this http://www.amazon.com/Testors-Liqui...51706859&sr=8-13&keywords=testor+model+cement) and pieces of (in your case) a piece of a donor track cut into small 1/4" or so sized pieces, placed into the 3502 to melt into a consistency of something near pancake mix.

I dump out about 2/3 of the new 3502 into another GLASS bottle them add the pieces into the 3502 bottle until I get it where I want, if it starts to get too thick I add more 3502 liguid. Stir it occasionally as its melting the donor plastic, it will be ready to use in about 24 hours or so, and a little goes a long way, that is why I dont mix up an entire bottle. 

Boosted


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## Rich Dumas (Sep 3, 2008)

The plastic will dissolve a lot faster if you use a file on the donor track section to make smaller particles. The jewel cases that 1/32nd cars come in have black ABS plastic bases, it is the same stuff that track sections are made of.


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

Here ya go Joe http://w11.zetaboards.com/The_Slot_Lodge/topic/9449371/1/

Click on the pic under "How to make it". 

I NEVER mix vintage plastic with modern plastic. Arbitrarily substituting an unknown relegates the process to an experiment, rather than a proven technique. The whole point of the exercise is to target and match the parent plastic, by selecting a similar era donor; so as to match both the color and properties of the parent. To do otherwise is just asking for a mishap. :freak:

Degrease the donor, use only clean, unpainted, unglued material. Quickly clip it into it into Chiclet size bits and pieces using a clean set of *****. It takes only takes seconds. There is no need to break a sweat mincing it into molecules. Thats what the 3502 is for. 

Toss enough 3502 to just cover the chips and walk away. Come back 24 hrs later and your base mix is done. Just let the chemistry work without meddling. Why make it hard? :thumbsup: 

The more ya mess and fuss with the process; the better chance you have of contaminating the batch with the type of duff, that potentially becomes inclusions in your work. It's one of the many benefits of making a batch. Any stray foreign matter migrates and settles into the bottom of the jar; then working medium is pulled from the top.


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## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

joe~pony, be sure to understand that Bill has taken Mike Vitale's formula to the Nth degree.
at least I think it was Mike Vitale that pioneered the GOOP legacy.
in any case, I have done some minimal work with the current GOOP idea and before there was even internet, I repaired O-gauage track that had been damaged when a wire from an Aurora Dragster fell off the car and fried shorting across the rails.
my experience was positive and I think I still have THAT piece of track.


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## Joe65SkylarkGS (Feb 15, 2010)

Great Bill thanks ?


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## Rawafx (Jul 20, 1999)

In the May 1969 issue of CAR MODEL magazine there is an article on page 38 written by Jim Keeler on how to make plastic "goop". He used cut up pieces of plastic "trees" that model car parts came attached to and Testor's Liquid Cement. I have been doing pretty much the same process except substituting pieces of Aurora 9" curve tracks to make goop to smooth out track joints and screw holes. I was using this method on my 4 lane banked oval back about 1985-1986. I am certainly not trying to take anything away from Mike Vitale, he is extremely knowledgeable and a master at his craft.


Bob Weichbrodt
[email protected]
Winston-Salem, NC


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## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

interesting, as I have been building plastic models since about 1965, I was 10 then, and absolutely used liquid model cement to create molten plastic for many applications.
of course, I didn't realize the cross over to model slot car racing at that time because I really wasn't into repairing slot cars. only burning and crashing them.
did juvey time for arson at age 11.
but, then again, I didn't write a magazine article on MY exploits.
there is however documentation in the state of MD, Salisbury, regarding my accomplishments.


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

Most of us covet acrylic boxes with lids, especially divided ones. This one has been with me for years and houses tires that have been been used, trued, narrowed, or ground.

Note the upper right, empty, compartment, where I absent mindedly tossed some of the aforementioned cheap urethane tires and they "gnawed" halfway through the bottom of the compartment; instead of enforcing my "straight to the trash" rule.










GRRRRRRRRR


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