# The Solution



## micyou03 (Apr 8, 2003)

“Proof of Purchase”

I have the solution to the AW chase car situation. Expanding or changing what Tom already started (buying a certain amount of regular cars to be able to buy the chase care). Instead of buying a certain number of cars form a particular source you just have to accumulate a certain number of “Proof of Purchases” (PoP).

Each regular car would come with a PoP that can be removed from the package and it would have an area that you scratch off to get the PoP ID that can be used online or mailed in with your order for chase cars.

This would satisfy many people. People who want the chase cars can simply buy enough cars to get their PoPs, then they can sell the cars without the PoPs for a discounted price. Dealers and ebeyers can sell the PoPs separate from the cars and have two different prices for cars with and without PoPs.

Also some of the PoPs can be instant winners for the chase cars or even extra special chase cars.


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## sethndaddy (Dec 4, 2004)

Very cool idea, I hope Tom doesn't stay true to his words of not reading anything here any more, there are some good ideas that pop up often.


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## Omega (Jan 14, 2000)

Good idea, I like it. :thumbsup: 

Omega (Dave)


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## 22tall (Jul 28, 2002)

I like free stuff


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## Rickc (Jul 9, 2002)

Tom did post a direct email, and I am sure he would enjoy hearing new and good ideas. The idea sounds good, especially as it makes 'scalping' more difficult. Maybe make the scratcher part of the inside of the box, so that the box and the car match. Make the chase car a special body, with a tuned chassis. make the whole thing something someone would want to drive as well as collect. Since in order to sell on ebay one would need to make a purchase at retail anyway, nobody would be dumping at reduced rates unless they were buying like crazy to find the chase cars.


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## Rickc (Jul 9, 2002)

Or, do like the soda companies do, and put codes on the boxes, driving customers back to the website to check on if they won.

Rick


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## mamilligan (Feb 1, 2003)

Cool idea. I think it would increase sales of the basic cars which is the root of the problem. I really like the idea of each PoP entitling you to buy a chase car or giving you a chase car. It adds excitement. I also like the idea of getting a chase car if you accumulate enough PoPs. 

Technically, there are some issues to overcome but I do not think they are insurmountable.


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

If it's good enough for cereal toys, it's good enough for slots :thumbsup: .

I'd take it one step further, though. Just to seal the deal.  

_POP along with a copy of your reciept._

*There is a real hidden bonus to doing this, especially for AW. The data mining possibilities of such a program would be enormous for all involved in the supply chain. What is selling and where? What isn't? The list goes on and on. The importance of this data is immeasurable, used correctly this could be more valuable to the supply chain than any chase program ever was. *



Mike I think you _really_ hit it with this idea. We could all keep the momentum going on this very easily on this board. Keep bumping it to the top.


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## noddaz (Aug 6, 1999)

*Did anyone...*

Did anyone send this to Autoworld?
(Sounds like a good idea to me also...)

Scott


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

Scott, they have discussed these ideas in the past, per an email I recieved from them today. There are a couple legitimate issues...cost, especially of the scratch-off idea, and supply...ie, what happens when they run out of chase cars and more POP's come in. 

My personal take is this. Places like ebay and this board have soured AW to the point we are at today. The "buy direct" program is what AW feels is the best solution they could come up with to the scalper problem. I think they put to much faith in the people in this hobby that are trolling the boards, and it may be a mistake that they will not see the long term effects of until much later. The scalpers are to blame, so are the buyers who supported them. Without a viable solution for the marketplace on the horizon, I don't see too bright a future for these cars, and that stinks.


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## sethndaddy (Dec 4, 2004)

Although I sell on fleabay, I think they are the biggest problem here.
I spoke to Tom the other day and he really is a nice guy trying to find the answers to please everyone.


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## mamilligan (Feb 1, 2003)

SwamperGene said:


> The scalpers are to blame, so are the buyers who supported them.


If you are going to paint with that broad a brush, you need to include any buyer searching out bargains and buying below list.


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

Biting tongue.
Multiple lacerations.
Bleeding out.
Send 5 units "A" positive stat!

Oh to heck with it! 

Unless I've gone blind from blood loss, the title of this forum is not the "AW Mutual Admirations Society".

This board did not create the longstanding chassis QC issues, questionable scalping, or the current marketing plan aimed at policing a free market.

Certainly I agree that some recent posts were outlandish, overboard, and even breached polite decorum in public forum. However, AW must take it's share of warranted criticism just as it has enjoyed the accolades. The Ivory Tower mentality is a short path to disaster in business.

Throw out the high, throw out the low and that's where you're really at. Tom should know this!

Yep it's been a firestorm. The racers say the chassis arent good, the dealers hate the direct sell program, and the AW loyalists are saying it's all good. I find it interesting that the collectors arent hollering. (I guess it's what they're not saying that's important!)  This reflects an extremely polarized bunch at best. However the free exchange of opinion and ideas on this board is hardly the problem, regardless of the ugly bits. It's what makes our country great. D'oh! There's that darn feedom of speech thing again. 

We'd all still be driving vibrators if someone hadnt bellyached a bit. Right?

AW is going through some growing pains both externally and self inflicted. Physics 101: There can be no movement without friction. It's what you do and where you go with it that really counts.

The "problem" is that AW makes a popular product that many are willing to pay through the nose for. Last time I checked that wasnt considered a problem! LOL.

Policing markets is not or should not be AW's consideration. An admirable idea none the less. Unfortunatly scalpers are like cockroaches, been around for millions of years and not going anywhere soon! The roaches will just evolve and find another way.

Always remember, "If you build it they will come!" Just fix the chassis and build more cool little cars! The rest will come out in the wash. It's always darkest before the dawn. Someone who has Tom's ear should remind him of this.


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## 22tall (Jul 28, 2002)

Bill, you wonder why collectors aren't bitching like so many others. This is the collector basher board. One person said collectors are nothing but long term scalpers. Another has said if it weren't for collectors there wouldn't be scalpers. One used me as an example and then called collectors fools. And it goes on and on. Maybe collectors are just better at being adults. 

People on this board put unwanted iwheels on e bay and say e bay is the problem. Doesn't that make them scalpers and hippocrits? Funny that nobody here jumps all over them. 

Tom Lowe did something that benefits collectors and for that I give him a standing ovation. A lot of people here call this the end of the world as we know it. Reality proves this isn't the case. Distributors and sellers are no longer able to scalp the chase cars to subsidize their business. Not my problem. If I want to donate money to someone I send them a check and don't expect anything in return like cheaper cars. iwheels and $10 cars seem to be plentiful on e bay. The consumer hasn't been hurt. 

Tom asked for constructive criticism. I started a thread that nobody added to it. Why not? There seems to be an endless supply of people willing to tell Tom how to run his business. 

Tom did seem rather surly in his last post. Give him a break. Haven't you guys ever had bad days where you get tired of dealing with knuckleheads and lost it? Have some faith in him. This isn't his first business.


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## sethndaddy (Dec 4, 2004)

I take it part of the last post is targeted towards me. I bought a set of iwheel cars because thats how they had to be bought. I also listed them for what I paid, $25.00, I also posted that if anyone from hobbytalk wins I would throw in a free Ford gt xtraction car. 
I really wish you wouldn't consider me a "scalper", I hate that word. Yes, I do have some of the other white thunders up for sale more expensive, but its only because I'm moving and figured if I could get a couple bucks for those cars to help with all the expenses of moving, I would part with them, if not, they would go back to my collection.
My feedback rating on Hobbytalk is 37 with an overall of 53. all positive. Last time I checked I think I'm the highest of all slot car guys and possibly one of the highest overall on hobbytalk. I got that because I am fair.
My idea of a "scalper" would be ______, because he is a business, he opens every case to get every white, and when you ask him to buy a master case his response is "Why, so you can get the white thunders too"?
I'm a little suprised considering you have dealt with me on more than one occassion and I thought I was fair.
Maybe it wasn't me? Maybe i'm paranoid.


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## videojimmy (Jan 12, 2006)

This so called "new" system hasn't helped scalping... how could anyone be foolish enough to think it would? All it did was take away the dealers opportunity to make some money on the overall sale from AW. If you look at ebay, some of these guys are already admitting defeat and listing cars for as little a $8.50. 

When the dealers showed up here and complained about it, I thought they raised some vaild points, and to see them being called names by a few blowhards from the TOM SQAUD, talking about how much THEY knew about business, bragging about how much they could afford to spend... and then calling the rest of us twits who know nothing... only served to make matters worse.

what's funny is, they were whining about the tone of the board, when THEY were ones who started the name calling. Ironic, huh? 

I'll bid on a few of the iwheels and first lap cars, but I won't get into a bidding war over shelf queens that will most likely LOSE value over time. I learned my lesson from the Red First Lap cars. I track those on ebay... and NO ONE seems to want those cars anymore. I'm sure I'll never get back my investment on them, so I may as well run them. I'll just swap the tires on them to keep the originals clean.

And STILL not ONE person from the Tom Sqaud can tell me how selling ALL the cars individually, putting a higher price on the chase cars, could hurt anyone. For a group of people who claim to be smarter than the rest of us, you would think at least ONE of them could answer such a simple question from a "twit" like me. 

again... Ironic, huh?


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## videojimmy (Jan 12, 2006)

22tall says "Distributors and sellers are no longer able to scalp the chase cars to subsidize their business. Not my problem"

True, but if dealers can't make their money back... they stop selling them... AW loses a HUGE outlet opportunity. Sales dwindle, production stops.


The more product that falls into more hands, the more slotheads are created and the more loyal they will be. Once you start pricing people out with inane marketing schemes, you LOSE potential LIFE LONG customers. 

Am I wrong? 

I still remember the first slot car I bought with my own money, the Tyco Roughrider Gremlin in 1978. I had to have THAT car ... I would hate to think I couldn't have gotten it because I wasn't rich enough to buy 11 others cars I didn't want first. 

Chassis issues aside, AW makes beautiful slot cars. Why play games with them? 
Why not make them as easy to get as possible and stop trying to create an investment shceme? In case you haven't noticed, prices are slowly going down on ebay on all but a few cars. So much for using them as an inventment. If you need more proof, start tracking the Red first lap cars on enay for a few weeks. I bet I couldn't even get 20 bucks for most of them. 

In the end... no dealers, no outlet for the manufactuer, he's forced to limit production, prices go up, less people buy them.. the cycle contiues until there's too few people buying them to warrant making them. 

but then again, according to the Tom Sqaud, I'm a twit who doesn't know anything.


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## 22tall (Jul 28, 2002)

I agree videojimmy and you are no twit.

I got 5 sets of the red first lap cars and have been doing exactly as I planned with them. One set on the shelf. One set to race and have given 15 of the others to friends as gifts. For me speculating is just like gambling. I never win so I don't bother.


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## Steve F (Apr 30, 2007)

If you want sealed masters all you have to do is email me at [email protected] & I will sell sealed masters..
Thanks
Steve


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## Macs_Little_Car (Oct 25, 2003)

sethndaddy said:


> My feedback rating on Hobbytalk is 37 with an overall of 53. all positive. Last time I checked I think I'm the highest of all slot car guys and possibly one of the highest overall on hobbytalk. I got that because I am fair.





The die cast guys have a lot of people higher... one guy is even at 111 score overal is close to 200 I think

I love the rating system here


Here is how you can check top and bottom ratings

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/traderratings.php



On the scalper and dealer subject, my thoughts are very welll known..... well over on the diecast board anyway.... chase cars are put in the cases for the consumer, not the dealer... my opinion and the way I ran my business


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## noddaz (Aug 6, 1999)

*I will take a stab at this*



SwamperGene said:


> Scott, they have discussed these ideas in the past, per an email I recieved from them today. There are a couple legitimate issues...cost, especially of the scratch-off idea, and supply...ie, what happens when they run out of chase cars and more POP's come in.
> 
> *snip*


I don't know if this was directed at me but I will take a stab..
_I ain't scared!!! :lol: _


The scratch off idea. I agree. Probably too much money to do...
The best idea still sounds like a mail in to AW using POP (proof of purchase) from the regular run of cars. Buy any 12 Tjets or any 12 Xtractions from ANYWHERE and send in the POP to AW to be able to buy a case of chase cars from AW. The POP allready exist as the UPC code on the inside of the package. *AW would only sell cases of chase cars and leave the regular cars to their dealers.* This allows the dealers to sell the cars. This allows people to buy the cars of their choosing. And this allows collectors to buy their chase cars. Of course this will not keep collectors from dumping the regular cars on Ebay after they get their chase cars. But those cars will have been _opened._ And if the cars sell for less... Well, they are opened cars... :devil: 
AW could still do the 90 day (or 120 day or whatever...) sell off of chase cars on their on-line store _*if there are any left.*_
AW already have people that are filling the orders now. So checking out UPC codes before shipping chase cars should not be a great leap.
Of course AW could still package a few of the chase cars in with their regular cars shipped to dealers. Keeps the old chase thing alive for the regular guys at the end of the line.
And what happens when AW runs out of chase cars and still has more orders? If the chase car program is set up with the words "while supplies last" AW would be covered...
So, what does everyone think?
Like I said, I ain't scared...

Scott


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

I'll try to stay on topic here.
I just want to make one point before I start. In theory, WLs used to retail for the same price as regular cars. In a perfect world without "scalpers", you should have been able to pick up a WL for the same price as a regular car. That is no longer the case. In essence, the "scalped" price is now built into the system.
My money - I decide how I want to spend it. Mr. Lowe's company, he decides how to run it.
In general, Scott does not have a bad idea. Reward the buyer of regular cars with the option of buying special cars. It is basically the formula AW came up with, except they do not allow you to purchase cars from dealers and credit it toward an iWheels purchase. Bad for dealers (and I believe AW's future sales outlook) but of no consequence to the customer.
Scott's proposal solves that problem. However, saying "while supplies last" might scare me off. If I was going to buy the regular cars anyway, it wouldn't matter. If I was buying the regular cars because I also wanted the iWheels, I'd want to know I was going to be able to get them and not find out after I bought the regular cars.
You also could not sell the POPs if you could not insure that they were good for something. If you sell a POP, you've got to know there's an iWheel backing it up.
While I still like to participate in this debate for the purposes of hearing some opposing points of view, my interest in the eventual outcome of any change in AWs marketing stategy is nearly non-existant. Once it became impossible to get the series 1 WTs, I did not get the series 1 regular cars and my collection of AW cars terminated. Once the chain was broken, the incentive to continue this particular collection has disappeared. As I mentioned in another post, if it were not for collecting, I might never buy another slot car; I have more than enough runners, bodies and chassis to last the rest of my life. Since there seems to be no intention of addressing the release 1 WT issue, and some release 2 iWheels have already sold out, I don't see myself buying many, if any, AW cars no matter how the marketing is done. That's not a threat or a slam, just my personal situation.
Thanks for the read and enjoy the hobby no matter what aspect you like.

Joe


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## 22tall (Jul 28, 2002)

sethndaddy said:


> I take it part of the last post is targeted towards me. Maybe i'm paranoid.


snd I almost put up one of those little disclaimers before hitting the submit button. Not picking on you personally. I think a scalper is someone that has access to master and inner boxes that takes the chase cars and substitutes regulars before they get to the consumer. The idea behind chase cars was not to subsidize vendors. I think of you as someone on the consumer end of the supply chain. You bought them and can do with them as you wish.

As far as being in business I think you are. You talk about all your feedbacks on Hobby Talk and you also have e bay feedbacks. How many feedbacks equals a business? To me you are not a large business or an agressive business but a business none the less.

My definitions of scalper and business are just different.

Finally yes I have purchased things from you and unless you ban me I probably will again. On the bay I control how much I am willing to spend. After that it's all about the service given by the seller and you have been aces with me. 

Can I have a hug now?


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## T-Jet Racer (Nov 16, 2006)

Check this senario out,
Lets say that AW likes the fact that they sell their cars to the general public. Fine, continue to do so, but maybe they could try this:
Lets say for arguments sake that a dealer pays $7 per car
if a dealer buys X amount of cars he / she will be allowed to purchase X # chase cars at 3 x the reg car price. $21 
Then the product moves, Tom makes extra on it and the dealers can still auction the cars off for double or whatever the market would allow.
or they could just split the 150 cars, 75 on the street, 75 only avail with p.o.p for collectors. this would work because collector buy all cars and would have the pops to buy from AW.
Just a thought...


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## noddaz (Aug 6, 1999)

*Hmmm...*



Grandcheapskate said:


> I'll try to stay on topic here.
> *snip*
> . *However, saying "while supplies last" might scare me off. If I was going to buy the regular cars anyway, it wouldn't matter. If I was buying the regular cars because I also wanted the iWheels, I'd want to know I was going to be able to get them and not find out after I bought the regular cars.* *snip*
> Joe


How could a company that is selling limited edition anything not say "while supplies last".
Isn't that part of the hype? (Oops, sorry) :lol: 
I mean, part of the marketing? Isn't that how the Sugar Daddy 510 was promoted? (As an example...)
(BTW, This is not directed at anyone in general...) It means get off your duff, buy some regular cars so you can send in the POP and make sure that you would get the case of chase cars...
I assume in this day and age the chase cars could be reserved. (Maybe some sort of promotional code entered on the website at time of order?) But would NOT be shipped (Or billed) until POP of regular cars was received by AW... And when the reserved cars are gone AW could post a notice saying so.
And if any of the reserved cars were not shipped due to lack of POP, people could be notified of that also...
Later, (My brain hurts...)
Scott


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

Even today it is "while supplies last", the chase cars are limited. Early bird gets the worm...first come, first served....all that stuff. And with people on the street (non-'puter geeks) being able to join the chase, the competition for and value for the cars would increase _tremendously_. "Chase car" finally lives up to the name.


Hmmm...methinks some may not be open to the idea of competition in getting these cars.


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## sethndaddy (Dec 4, 2004)

22tall said:


> snd I almost put up one of those little disclaimers before hitting the submit button. Not picking on you personally. I think a scalper is someone that has access to master and inner boxes that takes the chase cars and substitutes regulars before they get to the consumer. The idea behind chase cars was not to subsidize vendors. I think of you as someone on the consumer end of the supply chain. You bought them and can do with them as you wish.
> 
> As far as being in business I think you are. You talk about all your feedbacks on Hobby Talk and you also have e bay feedbacks. How many feedbacks equals a business? To me you are not a large business or an agressive business but a business none the less.
> 
> ...


LOL, I don't ban anyone, well, one guy I DON"T buy from anymore because of the "Why should I sell you a master case, cuz you want the white thunders, nope I sell em myself" (and this idiot is one of the top Autoworld distributors, and its not Motorcitytoyz, if you do the math it only leaves one guy left and I won't say his name, but I never seen him post here)
I sell a few cars just to pay myself for buying more cars. I occasionally sell other things on fleabay too, not to mention half of my feedback is from things I bought.
It's kind of like a tiny mini business that don't make money, but its fun to run. Trust me, If I could find a way to make a living selling slot cars I would quit Home Depot in a heartbeat.
I wasn't throwing my feedback around, but I am proud to make people happy. It makes me feel good.


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## sethndaddy (Dec 4, 2004)

One idea I had for the POP idea, make it a mail in upc thats inside the package. That way the car has to be opened up, little tag cut out and mailed in with other little tags cut out of the "not so mint in package" anymore cars.

I am almost 40 years old and anyone my age probably remembers Star Wars figures, and how you cut out the upc's to get the Boba fett figure or the other bounty hunters? Same idea.


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## 22tall (Jul 28, 2002)

Macs_Little_Car said:


> On the scalper and dealer subject, my thoughts are very welll known..... well over on the diecast board anyway.... chase cars are put in the cases for the consumer, not the dealer... my opinion and the way I ran my business


Well said Mac. I have said that all along. e bay cars are cheap. Websites are a few bucks more. Bigtime scalpers didn't get their hands on most of them this time and very little changed. As a collector I am dancing and I am sure a lot of others are also. How about someone keep track of how many of these hit e bay.

Just then a loud crash comes from the kitchen. You jump out of you comfy chair and begin to race to see what the commotion was. Sadly, as you fall towards the marble topped endtable you remember that you neglected to tie the undone shoelace you had noticed earlier.

As your head hits the table top a sickening crack echoes throughout the room followed by a thud as your limp body falls to the floor. Silence..........

Time passes.

After awhile you find yourself in that mysterios nether world. Are you awake? Are you asleep? 

Then a voice lightly drifts into your brain. So calm. So soothing. It was as if a siren was calling to you. You think this can't be real having never heard something so sweet. So alluring. Is that the voice af an angel. Are you dead? Are you in heaven? Did hit your head pretty hard. As you strain to focus everything suddenly becomes crystal clear. You had left the TV on and the angel was only Katie Curic doing the evening news.

As you struggle to your feet you she is talking about another plane crash. You begin to make your way again to the kitchen only to be frozen in your tracks when you hear the name Tom Lowe. It seems that Tom chartered a plane to take all of his distributors and vendors to Hawaii for a two week paid vacation. His way of thanking them for their hard work. 

Things took a tragic turn when the jet taking the polar route from South Bend International Airport encountered a migrating flock Penguiness Maximus. An eight foot tall flying penguin long thought to be extinct. The birds clogged the engines causing the plane to crash*. Miracously the crew and passangers survived. Unfortunately they took shelter in a huge cave where the last remaining cell of C.H.U.D.s (Canabalistic Humaniod Underground Dwellers) were living. Oh the horror.

Flash to AW headquarters South Bend Indiana. 

Amy Curl: What will we do Mr. Lowe? All is lost!

Tom Lowe: What will we do...what will we do

Hours then days then weeks then months passed. Tom never left his office. Just paced back and forth mumbling "what will we do?" Tom began to look like Howard Hughes in his final days. 

Then on that fateful day Tom burst from his office. He picked up Amy and twirled around yelling "I've got it!"

Tom lays out his plan to save the world of slotdom. He says he no longer has to charge list price for the cars. Since there are no distributors or vendoers he can seel all of his cars direct at distributor prices. All cars are now $7 each except for chase cars which must be ordered and will cost $12. 

Soon thereafter a strange thing began to happen. Collectors and racers began to well, like each other. The movement swiftly spread around the world. Racers of all ages, sexes, races and religions joined and migrated to South Bend. There they had a week long celebration and erected a 150 obelisk for the man they call Mr.Lowe.

Within weeks the movement had encoumpassed every man, woman and child on the planet. The president declared that there would be national holiday to honor the man that had brought us so much happiness. From that day on the day after the Superbowl was known as Lowe Day.

Upon returning from your third pilgrimage to the home of Mr. Lowe you sit down in your easy chair and drift off to your happy place.

As you wake you think to yourself that was some dream. What was that noise in the kitchen anyway? As you enter the kitchen four men in orange coveralls grab you and drag you to their van. As your neighbors look on all you can do is try to warn them:


"SOYLENT GREEN IS PEOPLE!"

just a scenario

*what is black and white and red all over?"

Don't ask Tom to aid scalpers.


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## videojimmy (Jan 12, 2006)

2 funny 22tall!


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## Captain Fred (Feb 19, 2000)

I was a toy car "collector" way before the internet or "chase" cars were invented. I never thought of investing in them for future profit or I would have taken much better care of some of the toys that I owned as a kid. 

When Playing Mantis first announced that they were going into the slot car business, I was one of the first people to express on this BB that I think chase cars in the slot car genre are a bad idea. Look at all of the trouble it caused with the diecast. It looks like I have been proven right. 

Tyco had a similar program to the one suggested above. I sent in some bar codes from Tyco slot cars that I purchased and they sent me a black & gold Tyco #1 F-1 car. 

I kinda got side tracked on the chase cars, both in diecast and slots, for a little while. I decided just stick with the slots because there wasn't all the politics and stupidity involved at the time. Now, here we go again! I don't worry about the chase cars anymore. I also think the rare vintage colors should be reproduced as much as possible. The whole "limited edition" concept is just a marketing gimmick. Slot cars are made to race. 

Make them easy & cheap to get. Make as many as possible, as inexpensive as possible. Create them in as many different colors and styles as possible. That way, when we run the crap out of them, there will be plenty more to replace them. Leave the chase car games to the Hot Wheels collectors.


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## A/FX Nut (May 28, 2004)

Captain Fred said:


> Make them easy & cheap to get. Make as many as possible, as inexpensive as possible. Create them in as many different colors and styles as possible. That way, when we run the crap out of them, there will be plenty more to replace them. Leave the chase car games to the Hot Wheels collectors.



I agree Captain Fred. Besides when is the last time any of us has seen a JL or AW slot car at a retail/chain store?___________(cricket chirping)__________ And when is the last time you saw Hot Wheels? Every time you go through the diecast isle or pass the 4' high 3' X 3' box sitting in the middle of the isle.


My point is that diecast cars are alot cheaper, and made for the shelf. There's a much larger following in diecast than slots. Jr can keep himself occupied for a couple of hours at a very minor cost to mom and dad. I wonder what the ratio between slots and diecast is. 


Retail/chain stores sell them like McDonald's sells burgers. The stores have rules in place to keep the employees for hijacking the chase cars and the average customer can obtain them easier. Most of the vendors selling slots made sure that they took the chase cars and sold them at a premium.


I'm sorry for saying this but, AUTO WORLD DID A GOOD THING WITH THE iWHEELS! There are some happy collectors that have saved some money. I don't buy for one minute that vendors need the old way with the White Thunders to make money on a case or cases of slots.


I don't buy enough slot cars to justify ordering direct from AW's website to get the iWheels. I can't afford it. But some on this board do. And if they do inventory on what they bought of each release of AW and JL they might be suprised. Randy.


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## 22tall (Jul 28, 2002)

Ahoy Captain. What brings you to our dangerous waters?

Slots are already cheap and easy to get. Wasn't the main complaint about white lightning diecast cars scalpers? Thread after thread of scalper stories. At no time did I see people coming out to defend the scalpers like over here.

The scalping supporters give a reason of the vendors need the extra income so they can sell the rest at a cheaper price. That way they can even sell the losers. Right now I have around 500 JL AW cars. The only ones I can say I really wanted are the 15 71 vettes and 25 Ford GTs I have. All the others for me are just OK. I do more than my share to support vendors. If the defenders really want to help the vendors they should send some extra money with your payment or buy some cars they don't like.

There wasn't any problem early on as you noted. Slots were cheap and plentiful. Then came the scalpers. Then came complaints. Coincidence? Slot are still cheap and plentiful. Tom puts a hurt on scalping. Slots still cheap and plentiful. Many complaints now are from people that only wanted an iwheel or two. They still have e bay and Tom can tweek his system a little to help these guys.


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## SplitPoster (May 16, 2006)

This is one of those threads that I am almost afraid to read..... but after the brilliantly intriguing short story by 22tall I remain captivated. 

Please Jeebus forgive me if this isn't an original idea! I just don't see the comparison in strategy with diecast. HW sells little cars for fun to everyone, and makes diehard collectors out of a few of them. I'll certainly pick up a really neat HW if I see one. They make track for those who want to actually play with them, though I'll bet most get rolled across the floor.

AW markets to a small (and getting smaller?) group of middle aged and older guys, and apparently isn't concerned if anyone operates the cars or not. The company does not make or provide the equipment to actually run them! I am no scholar of marketing, but does this sound like a plan for long-term growth, or even a long term commitment to the marketplace?

I am one of the few slot car enthusiasts in my area. As such, I get "referrals" from a friend at the local hobbytown, or through a train club, primarily people with questions about getting older cars fixed and running. One guy I have been talking to recently wanted to buy new track so he could run his old AFX cars, and newer, expendable cars with his kids. He didn't care for or want the magnet car missles for the obvious reasons. But what did he buy? Hint: not t jets or x-traction.

*If there were people out there with AW starter sets would the value and desireability of "the rest of the cars" be higher? Duh. * 

You make an affordable entry level track set, you enclose a catalog and weblink in the set to sell more cars. You want "limited edition" (how many thousand you want to turn out this month in Shanghai? limited edition, ha). How about "set-only" cars? You offer track to expand the layout, more cars to satisfy the accumulators and collectors, or to replace those that have met an untimely demise (be it the foot, the dog, or the lighter).

From my teeny tiny little perspective, all this collectors-only focus doesn't expand the demand for the product, only the demand for certain cars among a very limited group of people. It certainly does not serve the future of the hobby in general. If you want success in a retail, point-of-sale market (i.e. in the store) you have to do something that makes sense there. If you are trying to sell cars to people who already must have a different brand of track (and cars) to operate them - well, at best their opinions are already set based on what they already have. I would dare say that 99% of us started in this hobby with a set, not picking components up and building one.

My .02, I ordered my new Long Beach Grand Prix set so I'll have a larger track to put up and run anything from my oldest t jet to Coach's F1 Honda missle creation (can't do that on L&J, can I?).


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## Captain Fred (Feb 19, 2000)

Like the commercial says, "having different opinions is never a problem. The trouble comes when you start sharing them".  

The only comparison and point that I meant to make by comparing the slots & diecast was that chase cars are EVIL! 

I've always thought of myself as a collector. Not long ago, the racers WERE the collectors, but the chase car thing ended up dividing the community into different camps. Sure, it also drew more people into it that otherwise might not have cared much about it. I liked things better when we didn't have chase cars to argue about. In my opinion, the chase cars may increase interest & sales, but it brings a different kind of competition to the hobby. 

The very idea of a collectible or "chase car" takes an otherwise inexpensive toy and turns it into part of a marketing scheme. The very term, "Limited Edition" implies that not everyone can get one. That creates additional interest, but as it turns out, sometimes for the wrong reasons. 

The internet is a double edged sword. It opened up communication and linked markets in parts of the country that were previously somewhat isolated. It also drew in a new breed of opportunist/capitalist/collector. That can create resentment from those who don't have as easy of access to the desired product. The people who don't have the goods, naturally envy the ones who do. Speculation is part of our Capitalist system. In our political correctness though, the definitions of collecting and speculating were kinda mixed up.

I believe that Tom has the collector (old definition) at heart. This didn't help his dealers though. When he created chase cars, he created a Frankenstein monster. Let's not attack the doctor. He's the most likely one who can control the monster. 

If we MUST have "Limited Editions", I like the old sending in the POPs and sales receipts idea (the way Tyco used to do it). 

I'm not the most eloquent speaker, but this is my take on it. I'll go back to my lurking now.......


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

Back when I was in school, the teacher once held up a piece of chalk and asked how much it was worth. Of course the answer was next to nothing.
However, if there was a demand for that particular piece of chalk because a lot of people wanted it, the price goes way up.
It's price may go up, but it's value stays the same - it's a piece of chalk.
The value of anything that does not provide the essentials of life is subjective. Now for the heresy - so it is with slot cars.
The value of chase cars, White Lightnings, White Thunders or whatever other name you attach to them is subjective. Take a iWheel to a flea market and 99.9999% of the people wouldn't offer you a $1 for it.
You cannot artifically create the demand for a product. I used to pay a small premium (about $5-$10) so I could get the WLs for my collection. They were worth it to me and to add them to my collection had value. Once the release 1 WTs were impossible to get, or at least not worth my time searching them out, any future AW cars lost their value to me. As the work required to collect or buy the cars increased, my motivation decreased. The entire AW line now has much less interest, and less value, to me than before.
Slot cars are not an investment vehicle. Ask anyone who works the shows if they get back what they paid when they try to liquidate or reduce their collections. If you want slot cars, you should want them for whatever purpose you enjoy, whether that's running or collecting.
If you think there is a huge profit to be made in dealing slot cars, you should do it, even part time. If you want to bring slot cars to the masses and don't care if you make a profit, you should do that too. This hobby could use more vendor outlets.
The unrealistic AW chase madness will pass. Those that paid top dollar today will be tomorrow's liquidators. Unless you collect, there is going to be a point where everyone has more cars than they can use or want. And I think most collectors want full sets or nothing.

Joe


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## SplitPoster (May 16, 2006)

Hey Captain Fred! I was responding to the AFX nut quote, "When is the last time you saw AW or JL slot at a retail store?" Very valid observation! Answer: It would be like stocking radio control aircraft with engines, but not the transmitters/receivers/servos. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to a retailer who doesn't stock a lot of slot car stuff, the guy who makes most of his yearly profit at Christmas, does it? 

Make it easy to purchase and put together, sell some and hook a few long term enthusiasts. Live by the collector and speculator, risk the consequences. Especially if some of your cars are more "collectible" than the rest.


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## T-Jet Racer (Nov 16, 2006)

Grandcheapskate said:


> Back when I was in school, the teacher once held up a piece of chalk and asked how much it was worth. Of course the answer was next to nothing.
> However, if there was a demand for that particular piece of chalk because a lot of people wanted it, the price goes way up.
> It's price may go up, but it's value stays the same - it's a piece of chalk.
> The value of anything that does not provide the essentials of life is subjective. Now for the heresy - so it is with slot cars.
> ...


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## LeeRoy98 (Jul 8, 2005)

*The Ultimate Solution...*

OK, after reading all the ideas, complaints, kudos, etc., it is time for someone to step up with the voice of reason and offer all a true solution.
So I now offer for the low, low price of 199.95 + handling costs for the first cyber slot car. How does this work you might ask? Well, it is very simple. I will provide you with a unique, one of a kind slot car in the color of your choice. The chassis can be pink, purple, green, etc., and the tires can match or clash... your choice. I will also protect your investment by keeping it secure in a safe and secure environment and will send you pictures along with your unique serial number.
Time to cash in? I will offer the car for sale and will only require a $40 transaction fee. A small cost considering how much your investment should appreciate.
Of course as with any investment, there are no guarantees of appreciation.

Gary
AKA LeeRoy98
www.marioncountyraceway.com

P.S. This post was intended as sarcasm and should not be taken seriously... but I would like to point out that the collector fanaticism has created this exact scenario in the world of baseball collecting... and that is NOT a joke. Step back and consider why you are "collecting". These are toy electric cars... nothing more... nothing less.


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## SplitPoster (May 16, 2006)

LeeRoy! Brilliant! Can I buy on margin? Can I sell futures? You will guarantee that the items are never touched by human hands? 

They will be so exclusive that NOBODY will have them! (Yogi Berra should have said that).


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