# power pack voltage ?



## back.to.ho

Need help with power /voltage setting 

Have a tomy tri-power power supply - home track.

Which setting (voltage) should I be using for -
1. t-jet , magnatraction, 4-gear A/W

2. super g + , srt, turbo, mega-g , 440x2 tyco

Second question - should use 80 - 100 ohm controller for t-jet , what ohm controller for magnatraction, xtraction, 4-gear ?
Also - what ohm controller for tomy 's mega-g, super g + , srt all stock, except for silicone tires... 
Thanks , appreciate any suggestions !:wave:


----------



## slotking

what ever you like!
that the nice thing about it.

I run at full speed because most racing is at 18volts or higher.

but really about what you like.
the lower voltage can also be a good learning tool


----------



## alpink

generally, pancake cars use 80+ OHM controllers and inline cars use 25-45 OHM controllers.
there will be other opinions with better information why and why not.
voltage to run the cars on?
like king said, it is your decision. what can you handle? the better your skills become the more power you are going to want.
looking forward to other posts regarding these assertions .... LOL


----------



## Bill Hall

24V with 20 amp capacity.

Cuz thats what came my way when the getting was good.

Here's the bottom line. You can fuss, fidget and squirm in denial, but the guys here are right. Some years back I upgraded my power and matched my controllers and lo and behold the vast majority of my gremlins went away.

Cars run cleaner, cooler, with better control and less schlock on yer brushes, comms, pick-ups and rails. 

It was and still is the single most and best money I ever spent as performance enhancements go. All your other parts upgrades, combinations, and tweaks wont achieve the maximum desired results until ya get the power and control right.


----------



## Gary#8

Hi, The new Tri-power packs are nice but do not have as much amps as the older TOMY 22v packs. I have both styles and the Tri-power will not run 3ohm green wire arms and the older TOMY 22volt nonadjustable pack will.


----------



## TK Solver

*Surprising*

Gary, your post runs contrary to what AFX is advertising so I'm wondering if there might be some other explanation. According to AFX, the Tri-Power transformer has 1 amp capacity. The older 22V transformers have about 1/3rd of that.

When you say "will not run" are you saying that the car won't even move?

It sounds like you have faulty Tri-power unit, based on other posts I've read.


----------



## alpink

the 3 ohm arms were originally included in sets with battery packs?
is that correct? 
how many volts were the battery packs? 
what kind of batteries were intended for use in the packs? 
perspiring minds want to know!


----------



## beast1624

Al
One of the guys in our group said he got one of those sets once and it ran on 6 D 1.5v batteries for a total of 9 volts. He would take the arms out of the Mattell/Tyco cars and put it in his 440-X2 and have a screamer since we run at 20v on all our tracks!


----------



## Gary#8

There is difference between advertising and reality. Try both type power packs and see for yourself. I have two of each style and I don't believe both Tripowers are faulty. Yes, the car won't even move. Just sits there and vibrates and the arm just wiggles back and forth without spinning. I'm not sure what is up but the older packs are about twice the size and weight of the new Tripower packs, maybe windings inside?


----------



## AfxToo

I don't think this has anything at all to do with the current capacity of the old 22V power supply versus the new TriPower supply. This is very likely due to the over-current protection circuitry built into the TriPower supply. The TriPower power supply probably thinks the low resistance motor is a dead short at motor start up and the power supply is crowbarring and clamping the current to near zero. Since these are designed as toys and must meet strict safety requirements I suspect the protection circuitry is kicking in. The 3 ohm motor is going to ask for (18/3) or 6 amps for a few milliseconds, which is 6X what the power supply can handle so it is tripping the protection circuit. 

Why would the TriPower behave this way while the old power supply does not? Because the TriPower has greater current capacity, is regulated, and is thus considered more "dangerous." The old 22V 7VA power supplies must have been deemed to have such low current that over current protection was not required. When unregulated power supplies get a high current demand they typically crash the voltage to stay within the VA rating. 

The VA rating tells the whole story.


----------



## TK Solver

Bravo! A great explanation. Thank you. I learned a lot from that.


----------



## rbrunne1

I'll reinforce what others have said, especially Bill Hall, the key is to match the power and controllers.

My experience: set controllers & 22V wall-wart = uncontrollable cars. Replaced set power with 13.8V, 15A regulated power supply (as I had a spare one), kept the set controllers and had fun. 

Bottom line: set the voltage to maximize fun 

Bob B.


----------



## Gary#8

AfxToo I understand what you are saying but am still confused because the tripower packs have a 8VA rating and the old pack has a 7VA rating Also size of layout has something to do with it also?


----------



## cwbam

I'm lost WHAT is 7VA?

Is it just Volts & amps ?

and Most wall warts are 22v-15v with less than 1 amp?

hence 1 power pack per lane is nice and or try a laptop power supply.


----------



## shocker36

AFX is basically explaining locked rotor start. When a motor has to move from a dead stop the amps go up as volts go down as motor comes up to rpm amps go down volts go up. In short


----------



## back.to.ho

*variable voltage*

O.K., from what I'm gathering,( Pleae correct me if I am wrong) Get a variable voltage . 15 amp power supply. If this is correct, where might I find such an animale !? I am not good with this electrial stuff, can learn , just do not have experience with this .. Thanks for any help


----------



## rbrunne1

TrackMate sells two power supplies that meet the criteria for an HO Track:

10 Amp Variable:
http://www.trackmateracing.com/shop/product.php?id_product=12

20 Amp Variable
http://www.trackmateracing.com/shop/product.php?id_product=32

Search the Forum as there are entire threads on the topic :thumbsup:

Bob B.


----------



## AfxToo

The VA rating is about the same as the power rating in watts and it refers to how much power the power supply produces. The stock Tomy wall wart at 7 VA basically a 7 watt power supply. No matter what the load is, the combination of voltage times current cannot exceed 7. 

I have not seen the electrical specifications for the TriPower power supply but the advertised performance numbers on the AfxRacing web site say it delivers 8V @ 1A, 12V @ 1A, and 22V @ 1A. This would equate to 8 VA, 12 VA, and 22 VA ratings at each of the three settings. If the TriPower were only 8 VA for every setting then the advertised performance at the 12V and 22V settings would be very wrong.


----------



## beast1624

This is who makes Track Mates power supplies

http://www.mastechpowersupply.com/variable-power-supply/switching-power-supply/cat_7.html

We used this one on our track. Gives the option to use each output for 2 lanes or to link them parelell for 30 v and 20 a total, plus you have the constant output for accesories. We have had this one for almost 3 years running a 105' Tomy 4 lane with one power tap and one jumper. No power drops and no surges when one comes off even if running high amp Patriot cars.

http://www.mastechpowersupply.com/d...hy3010e-3-triple-outputs-30v-10a/prod_80.html


----------



## Gary#8

AfxToo, I'm looking at the tripower right now and the back reads 
22.0V-1A,22.OVA, 12.0V-1A,1A,12.OVA and 8.0V-1A,8.OVA.
NO-LOAD 30VDC MAX CAUTION-ELECTRIC TOY. MADE IN CHINA.
Still don't understand why it won't power 3ohm green arm cars and 
old 22VOLT pack does I have a power pack for each lane with lane length of 70 feet per lane and two power taps. Also two 45ohm Parmas and a Delfalco 515. 3ohm cars work with all controllers but only with old style packs and not higher rated Tri Power packs.  Here's a picture of track.


----------



## alpink

*dead short*



Gary#8 said:


> AfxToo, I'm looking at the tripower right now and the back reads
> 22.0V-1A,22.OVA, 12.0V-1A,1A,12.OVA and 8.0V-1A,8.OVA.
> NO-LOAD 30VDC MAX CAUTION-ELECTRIC TOY. MADE IN CHINA.
> Still don't understand why it won't power 3ohm green arm cars and
> old 22VOLT pack does I have a power pack for each lane with lane length of 70 feet per lane and two power taps. Also two 45ohm Parmas and a Delfalco 515. 3ohm cars work with all controllers but only with old style packs and not higher rated Tri Power packs.  Here's a picture of track.


Gary, someone told you that the low resistance of the 3 OHM arm looks like a near dead short to the power supply you are having trouble with.
in accordance with federal regulations to protect children and animals, the power supply has a tiny SMART circuit that temporarily shuts off the output when it sense anything nearly like DEAD SHORT and then turns back on again. it is very much like a circuit breaker that automagically resets.
but, each time it runs back on and "sees" that low OHM armature, it thinks there is a short that could cause a catastrophe and shuts off again
so it keeps going on-off-on-off-on-off-on-off etc!!!!!!
which is the condition you see with the armature twitching but not actually turning.
I think that is what was meant by the post I read .....

" ........ I don't think this has anything at all to do with the current capacity of the old 22V power supply versus the new TriPower supply. This is very likely due to the over-current protection circuitry built into the TriPower supply. The TriPower power supply probably thinks the low resistance motor is a dead short at motor start up and the power supply is crowbarring and clamping the current to near zero. Since these are designed as toys and must meet strict safety requirements I suspect the protection circuitry is kicking in. The 3 ohm motor is going to ask for (18/3) or 6 amps for a few milliseconds, which is 6X what the power supply can handle so it is tripping the protection circuit.

Why would the TriPower behave this way while the old power supply does not? Because the TriPower has greater current capacity, is regulated, and is thus considered more "dangerous." The old 22V 7VA power supplies must have been deemed to have such low current that over current protection was not required. When unregulated power supplies get a high current demand they typically crash the voltage to stay within the VA rating.

The VA rating tells the whole story.

........... "


----------



## Gary#8

Al, Thanks for explaning it the way you did. Now I get it. Gary


----------



## alpink

Gary, took me a couple reads to fully understand what was meant too. so i felt i had to share my findings. hope i got it right. LOL !


----------



## AfxToo

> 22.0V-1A, 22.0 VA, 12.0V-1A, 12.0 VA and 8.0V-1A, 8.0 VA.


This is exactly as advertised. It's basically acting like 3 independent power supplies. This is a bit of a different design approach and very different than a benchtop or lab unit because the VA or power rating on a power supply typically applies to the entire unit. If this was a conventional design rated at 22 VA it would be able to supply 1.8 A @ 12V and 2.75 A @ 8V. I seem to recall Steve alluding to this a couple/few years ago when we asked about the power ratings.

The one spec that caught my eye here is this:



> NO-LOAD 30VDC MAX


What this is telling me is that the TriPower is really an *unregulated* power supply. One of the characteristics of a unregulated power supply is that it supplies higher than rated voltage in an unloaded state. However, there must still be current limiting and protection to keep the power supply from exceeding 1A under heavy loads, which would be low resistance load at full voltage. On a power supply like this the protection is typically a self resetting thermal circuit breaker.


----------



## Hornet

Here's a decent article on wallwarts,gives some insight into how the "average" older style one's work,and how to clean them up.
Have you tried adding any capacitors to it,a 35V 1000uF cap,"might" give it enough oomph to get past the crowbar stage of the wallwart,the cap shouldn't cost you anymore then a buck at a local electronics store
A $0.99 cent cap might be worth trying,before investing in a bigger power supply.

http://www.dxing.info/equipment/wall_warts_bryant.dx

If anybodies interested Active Components carries mutliple voltage setting wallwarts,last time i was in one of their stores they even had ones that went to 24 volts and put out a claimed 1.1 amp.
If they carry the multiple voltage setting wallwarts,i'm thinking other electronics outfits carry them too.

http://www.active123.com/


----------



## Boosted-Z71

Laptop power supplies are cheap, you can get them for $5 bucks or so used (Seen them at flea markets for $1), add another $5 for the variable voltage components/ box & potientiometer, in the above mentioned article and you have yourself a very nice 
2-20v 3+ amp power supply, that has almost no AC ripple. I have one that I use for any kind of bench work & have another that supplies the power to the dyno, I have ran many 1.5 ohm winds on the dyno on these supplies with no problems at all. I also use one to break in motors, and sometimes to power single lanes on my track when doing some track testing. These things will eat the std aurora packs alive in terms of power, your cars will run cooler, voltage is very adjustable & stable under load, when you build the adj regulator setup, and they last. Mine have been built & used for well over 1 year, no problems at all. The new Tomy powerpacks that I have tested all have a ton of AC ripple in them, and all vary in output according to load applied. 

Boosted


----------



## Hornet

To add to Jeff's post about voltage regulators,we've both ran into this problem.
If you run more then one LM338 voltage regulator,make sure there is no continuty between the individual regulators,ie: don't mount more then 1 regulator to each heatsink.
The regulators have continuty to their backsides,and if you mount them where they have continuty between themselves,they won't work properly.
Drove me nuts trying to figure them out the first time i worked with them,took awhile to figure out it was the continuty between the regulators that was the problem

If you do build a regulator set-up,the caps help to clean up the wallwarts ripple and stabilize their output.
Once you get down to a 0.1 uf cap,the ripple is pretty well gone from even a wallwart.

Here's a link to Rich Dumas's voltage regulator wiring set-up,where he uses a 470 and 150 ohm resistor,for HO you can get away with ( 1 ) 180 to 220 ohm resistor,instead of the 2 resistors Rich is using.
Also Rich's diagram doesn't show the bigger caps on the imput side ,but i would reconmend using a minimium of a 35 or 50 volt 470 uf cap on the imput side of things.
My overkill way of doing them is to use a 1,000 / 470 /220 / 100 / 10 /2.2 / 1.0 and the 0.1 uf cap all on the imput side,it's total "stupid" overkill,but i buy caps in bulk when they're on sale,so the cost actually isn't much,and the power is pretty darn clean by the time it gets to the regulators.
I mount the caps and regulators on perf board you can get at Radio Shack or pretty well any other local electronic outlet 


http://www.slotcarillustrated.com/portal/forums/showthread.php?t=33667

Rick


----------



## Boosted-Z71

Hornet said:


> The regulators have continuty to their backsides,and if you mount them where they have continuty between themselves,they won't work properly.Rick


That is a huge lesson learned, I had 2 mounted to a large piece of aluminum, I planned for it to act as a great heatsink as well, but the voltage / continuity to the back plate gave me fits, Thankfully Rick was kind enough to answer my tons of emails regarding these not working and I confirmed that the voltage regulators do have voltage on the back / mounting plate, Just remember to isolate them & they work great. 

Boosted


----------

