# Model Motoring is for sale



## 66Galaxie500 (Jun 18, 2004)

I just cruised over to the Model Motoring web site and there is an announcement that it is for sale. Does anyone have any information on that development?


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## Omega (Jan 14, 2000)

66Galaxie500 said:


> I just cruised over to the Model Motoring web site and there is an announcement that it is for sale. Does anyone have any information on that development?


Who ever buys it, I hope they have better class then the current owner.


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## bobwoodly (Aug 25, 2008)

*Harrison?*

I've always had good luck with Harrison @ Model Motoring. I wonder if someone has taken over for him near term due to a health issue? That is the only reason I could think of for the recent comments in his ebay listing.


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## win43 (Aug 28, 2006)

I too have dealt with Harrison many times. Never had a problem with him or his bodies.

Hope this doesn't turn into a H bashing thread.


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## 66Galaxie500 (Jun 18, 2004)

I got back into this hobby because I spotted a rack of Model Motoring cars at a hobby shop years ago. Harrison gets the credit.


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## videojimmy (Jan 12, 2006)

same here... Harrison was always cool with me... and his bodies were TOP notch.


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

I remember the company being up for sale (at least all the inventory) on eBay for an opening bid of $250,000. This was a number of years ago. I believe there was a discussion about it on the old DL. This should have been a little while after the 50 ohm armature disaster. Anyone remember?

It's been a lot of years since MM produced any cars. But the cars he did produce were excellent. Too bad it couldn't be a money maker for him. It took courage to start something that ambitious.

Joe


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## slotrod65 (Dec 4, 2005)

I too must credit MM for getting me back into HO slots. I was in a local train shop and saw them. They looked so good that I had to buy a few, even though I did not have a track at the time. Two months later I had a 4 lane 15 x 6' monster in the basement. It was all due to MM.


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## Roddgerr (Feb 8, 2006)

I too got interested in this hobby again after seeing the Model Motoring cars at the local hobby shop.


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## Pomfish (Oct 25, 2003)

I didn't really intend to get drawn into this thread, however I must share my own Harrison story.

I met him online in the old AOL Alt Hobbies board.
Trust me when I say that was the only slot car discussion board at that time. We are talking dial up, 1200 Baud.

I mentioned something about going to a guys shop who had been in business since 1963 and he emailed me and asked if I would tell him where it was if he promised not to tell anyone else.
That's when I realized my shop might be special.

I agreed to take him there with me.
We hooked up a couple weeks later and went to the shop.
He had far more experience than me as to what to ask about and what to buy.
I was into mag cars at the time, I was aware of t-jets as a kid but remembered them as slow, dorky and no traction.

Anyway, he bought a few Tomy AFX Jap import indy cars and some other stuff and I bought some Tycos and some tires.
We talked during the trip up and back and he said he was restoring some Aurora Poster art, actually box art that would be converted into poster art.

At that point I had no idea that he owned an injection molding company that catered to Muscle cars.
He had the whole Model Motoring thing in the works but could not talk about it because it hadn't been brought to market yet.

Anyway, a couple months later, I get a package at work and it is poster tubes.
Inside was the first printings of his box art. Awesome stuff.

Later, I would be invited down to hos shop near the Willow Grove Air Force base and was blown away with what he manufactured.

Soon Model Motoring cars were out, first with the Willys and then tons of cars.
It was like Christmas 1969 all over again.

Later on I would see Harrison at shows and he was always the gentleman and I would learn later from the other vendors that he would buy breakfast, etc before alot of the shows.

Bottom line is this man spent a whole lot of his own money that he may, or may not, have gotten back on this hobby and really kick started the rebirth of Tjets and slot cars during the dawn of the internet.

For that I say, God bless Harrison Woodrow!

For the record, the hobby shop in question was the Infamous Kipp's Hobby of Lebanon PA, best damn slot shop on the East Coast :_)
Thanks,
Keith


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## videojimmy (Jan 12, 2006)

nice story Keith.


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## slotcarman12078 (Oct 3, 2008)

That is a real cool story!! I have daydreamed about buying MM for well over 2 years now, just waiting for those magical numbers to come in. Maybe tonight...  I really love the 67 GTO he made. Of all my slot cars, my candy green GTO is my favorite. 

I'll give my word here, publicly, that if the lottery gods smile on me, I will buy MM and get it in full operation again. I will pursue the perfect T jet replacement chassis, and pick up body production again. Will it be a losing proposition? Most likely. Would I care? No! I will produce so many chassis, my great grand kids will have a hard time getting rid of them! Remember, the more you make, the cheaper they are to produce, and if I'm sitting on a few million spare dollars, I'd be tickled to put it into this hobby we love so much. Let 'em sell for 3.00 a pop retail, I won't care!! The fact is, making the chassis cheap, makes body producing more appealing. Dan can go back into producing bodies again, knowing there would be an ample supply of chassis to mount them to. Same with all the resin guys. mmmmmm what a nice day dream..... :woohoo:


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## sjracer (May 25, 2008)

I don't have a MM story but I used to go to Kipp's in Lebanon, PA he had everything. That place was great, it was amazing he once told me that refused to go online because he didn't want to be bough out.


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## Dslot (Sep 2, 2007)

win43 said:


> Hope this doesn't turn into a H bashing thread.


Not much chance of that, apparently. :thumbsup:

I'll add my bit: I consider him a hero of the modern HO slot hobby. A tragic hero, maybe, but certainly a hero.

And on a personal level, my direct business dealings with him have all been more than satisfactory.

-- D


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## 70ss (Aug 22, 2005)

Grew up at Kipp's. Spent a lot of weekends there. Talk about low overhead literly. 
For those that were never there. His shop was in his basement with very little head room or much room anywere else for that matter.


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

I have no idea who Harrison is, but I sure did like that Tiger GTO MM made.


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## ParkRNDL (Mar 20, 2002)

I feel lucky to have been to Kipp's a couple of times back when I was first rediscovering the hobby. Amazing place. The nooks and crannies he could dig stuff out of... I asked him about Tyco 6" curves, and sure enough, he dug 4 out of a drawer for me. Still have them, and a chrome AFX A/P Corvette he sold me.

Great story, Keith. Thanks for sharing. :thumbsup:

--rick


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## Rolls (Jan 1, 2010)

*GeeTo Tigers are cool.*



http://geetotiger.com/

:thumbsup:


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## SplitPoster (May 16, 2006)

Nice thread to read. MM is pretty amazing when you consider everything he made and sold - so much neat stuff. It would be nice if somebody could step in and move forward with it all.


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

Harrison's bodies are the cream of the modern crop.... by a mile!


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## Lype Motorsport (Mar 14, 2004)

I have had several dealing with him, and everytime he was very gracious. I loved his product and his devotion to the little cars. As others have said said, MM bodies are very top shelf!

Larry


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## Thunderbolt1 (Nov 28, 2008)

Is Kipps still in business and if it is , where is it?


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## Pomfish (Oct 25, 2003)

No, Kippy is dead.
Miss the old bugger.
Later,
Keith


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## Joe65SkylarkGS (Feb 15, 2010)

I never dealt directly with him but like his cars. Too bad whats going on lately.

First Dan, now this? I wonder whats next.


It still amazes me every day how this hobby isn't much bigger. It really blows my mind. Especially since the best cars ever are currently being made. Period by guys like these: 

Bad Dawg, Dan at Dash and MEV and a bunch of other guys doing amazing things. To mention a few.

I hope scm hits lotto.


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## bobhch (Apr 22, 2007)

*One fun idea after another. Harrison made slot car fun happen...*

Pomfish,

What a neat story...thanks for sharing it with us all.

Harrison is a great guy and has made so many cool bodies. 

















Have both of the Tiger bodies and lots of the AWESUM 55s he made. 
The 55s are my favorite body that he made and have done up a few customs with them. 




























Saving the MM 55s & Willys t-jet bodies I have for some rainy day custom fun!

This picture of a half way done N D MAN 55 is now at Nuther Daves place...yes I finshed it. lol



















He also made a bunch of fun anodized aluminum rims that have changed the look of many of my custom builds. Thank you Harrison Woodrow! :thumbsup:

Bob...have several of his posters also...zilla


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

I just went to the MM site. I was surprised to see so little info offered about the company being for sale. I'm sure any interested buyer would get the complete picture of what constitutes "the company", but from the website you can gleam almost nothing. I figured there would be a little more info there to entice any prospective buyer; some indication of exactly what is being sold. One would assume the drawings, specs, molds and left over inventory. Not great detail, but something - basically a sales pitch to get someone interested.

Anyway, I also read the last news update which was from 2009 about the Thunderplus chassis being tweaked to make it an exact copy of the Aurora T-Jet. Does anyone know if what happened with that? I have seen or heard nothing. Since the news was posted long after the economic downturn and the projected completion date was fall of 2009, I assume it wasn't the economy that derailed the project (assuming it never did get completed).

Thanks...Joe


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## Joe65SkylarkGS (Feb 15, 2010)

I thought the chassis went south when Dan at dash shut down?? Which I hope and pray it's not a done deal yet like alot of us here are hoping!!


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## slotcarman12078 (Oct 3, 2008)

I believe the Dash chassis and the retooled Thunderplus would be two different chassis Joe. As noted by that Ebay listing, Harrison and Dan aren't the best buddies, but I believe that issue should be kept between them. It would be nice if they could get along, and work together. Both of them have made incredibly good contributions to the hobby on their own. 

If they were to work together, even if it was just the on the chassis, everyone would benefit. The costs for manufacturing could be split between the two of them, and instead of competing with each other the retail cost would be a bit more profitable. This would eliminate the possibility of a "price war" which wouldn't be very profitable for either of them. As the stockpile of NOS chassis at REH continues dwindling down towards nothingness, producing bodies for T jets becomes more and more of a risk. 

AW still makes a T jet styled chassis, but it isn't close to the original. As noticed in recent releases, the production numbers are getting smaller. This drives the price higher, and makes buying an AW car just for the use of the chassis impractical. But an AW chassis is not the same thing. 

Also keep in mind, there was a third T jet chassis concept being tossed around back in the early 2009 time frame, when Bob Beers posed a question as to how many people would be interested in "buying shares" of a new T jet. The goal was $50,000, and I believe it was reached, or was very close to being met. Sadly, it turned out to be a mental exercise and nothing more.

I still stand by my word. If the lottery gods smile on me, I will bring MM back to life, and hopefully inspire Dash to open the doors again too in the process.


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## Marty (Oct 20, 1999)

My favorite bodies MM made were the Plymouth GTX's. Fantastic detail! And of course it is a MoPar!!

Marty


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## T-Jet Racer (Nov 16, 2006)

It is a sad day indeed, sorry to hear Harrison is packing it in. All the best "H"!


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## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

it has been my understanding that Model Motoring has been for sale for at least 5 years, maybe more. the price (don't know it) has never been met. thus NO SALE.


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

In the realm of abstract speculation I'd love to see MM and Dash join forces. Their combined portfolio and expertise would make for a worthy competitor against the few remaining HO manufacturers. The weak economy has taken a toll on MM but so has the performance of AutoWorld/JL.

The first couple of years of JL, with the rampant dumping of cars on e-bay and sharp post release price drop offs must have been tough on MM's market share. Fortunately AW has stabilized and has a better handle on their own marketing and is getting good traction in race sets and one-off sets and cars, which is good for the hobby and AW's licensing portfolio. This has a big impact for any potential investor or new owner of MM because the lasting value in MM is in the downstream value of the licenses that are in place, the unique parts of the current portfolio against the likes of AW, and the manufacturing capacity that can be tapped to quickly bring new products to market against strong competitors. The value of the existing MM inventory is there, but unless it is viewed from a fire sale or liquidation perspective it's the downstream potential that is really key for a buyer.


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## slotrod65 (Dec 4, 2005)

Shooting in the dark here...but I would hazard that a good chunk of the percieved value of Model Motoring is the name/logo itself. It is right up there in value with "Aurora" (owned by TOMY) and "Thunderjet 500" (Does AW have this one?... not sure).


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## A/FX Nut (May 28, 2004)

The following is the reason why there is the lack of information about Model Motoring, taken from their website; 

MODEL MOTORING, INC IS FOR SALE. ALL INTERESTED PARTIES PLEASE CONTACT [email protected] DIRECTLY. ALL PARTIES ARE REQUIRED TO FILE A NON-DISCLOSURE WITH OUR ATTORNEY AND FURNISH THEM WITH PROOF OF FUNDS AND CAPABILITY TO PURCHASE. NO COMPANY INFORMATION WILL BE PROVIDED WITHOUT FIRST MEETING THIS REQUIREMENT. SERIOUS INQUIRIES ONLY.

Harrison isn't going to waste his time with someone who doesn't have the money to buy Model Motoring. I wish I could purchase the company. 

If it does get sold I hope it is as strong as it was in it's first two or three years. The bodies are the best in the hobby for Thunderjets. It would be great to see a retooled Thunder Plus chassis with past release bodies and new ones.

Randy.


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

AfxToo said:


> In the realm of abstract speculation I'd love to see MM and Dash join forces. Their combined portfolio and expertise would make for a worthy competitor against the few remaining HO manufacturers.


This would be the perfect scenario. Even as a Tyco fan, I wish this would come true.


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

AfxToo said:


> The first couple of years of JL, with the rampant dumping of cars on e-bay and sharp post release price drop offs must have been tough on MM's market share. Fortunately AW has stabilized and has a better handle on their own marketing and is getting good traction in race sets and one-off sets and cars, which is good for the hobby and AW's licensing portfolio. This has a big impact for any potential investor or new owner of MM because the lasting value in MM is in the downstream value of the licenses that are in place, the unique parts of the current portfolio against the likes of AW, and the manufacturing capacity that can be tapped to quickly bring new products to market against strong competitors. The value of the existing MM inventory is there, but unless it is viewed from a fire sale or liquidation perspective it's the downstream potential that is really key for a buyer.


 I've been thinking about this and there's is a LOT to consider.

Forget that we are dealing with a small customer base and getting into the slot car business is not going to let you buy your own island or start your own country. It may not even lead to making money unless you're lucky (and good).

Let me start by saying I love the MM cars and I did buy them all when they were available. So this is by no means a critisism of any sort.

MM produced only 18 different models, some of which were fairly similar. There are four Mustangs (convertable, 2 hardtops and fastback), four Camaros (1967, 1969, convertable and Yenko), two Chevelles (1967 and 1970) and four GTOs (69 Judge, 69 ragtop, 69 hardtop and 67 hardtop). So you could argue that there are only eight truly distinct bodies.

MM took each model and made a lot of colors for each one, most having between 18 and 24 variations. That is great, but does not leave a large body selection. 

So if you were to buy the company, you have to ask yourself if the existing bodies have run their course. I would think nearly all of the sales for those existing cars has passed. Sure you'll get the occasional sale, but nothing large enough to sustain a business. Plus, these cars have been done by everyone, so there's nothing unique about them (except their quality). So all those body molds and left over stock may have very little value.

What's left? If the actual manufacturing was contracted out, then the actual machinery to produce the bodies (and chassis) is not included. That would be my guess. I don't know, but I doubt MM had a production workforce. Just like AW.

The licensing issue is another headache. MM ran into problems with GM and ended up having to stop doing any GM car. Has that issue been resolved? And how much are those licenses going to cost?

So, the question becomes - what are you buying and how much extra money would need to be invested to create a viable set of products?

Joe


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## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

I seem to remember a black 40/41 Willys with a rather bad flame paint scheme?


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## slotcarman12078 (Oct 3, 2008)

This is correct. The first body produced if I recall correctly was the Willys. The GTX was also produced, with 2 different hood variations (Sox and Martin). The biggest asset to buying MM would be the patents and trademark stuff, and the chassis rights would be the biggest perk. If I were to find myself in control of the situation, I would definitely be getting the chassis production rolling first.


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## bobhch (Apr 22, 2007)

*Didn't MM make the 55 & a Vette???*



Grandcheapskate said:


> MM produced only 18 different models, some of which were fairly similar. There are four Mustangs (convertable, 2 hardtops and fastback), four Camaros (1967, 1969, convertable and Yenko), two Chevelles (1967 and 1970) and four GTOs (69 Judge, 69 ragtop, 69 hardtop and 67 hardtop). So you could argue that there are only eight truly distinct bodies.
> 
> Joe


I'm no expert on MM bodies but, didn't MM make the 55 Chevy & a Corvette also? 

Bob...I could be wrong...zilla


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

bobhch said:


> I'm no expert on MM bodies but, didn't MM make the 55 Chevy & a Corvette also?
> 
> Bob...I could be wrong...zilla


 MM did make four other models in addition to those I mentioned above. There was a Willys, 55 Chevy, Corvette Roadster and Plymouth GTX.

Anyone interested in buying MM is going to have to think long and hard about how to generate a positive cash flow. Any existing inventory is going to be tough to move quickly unless there is a drastic price reduction; and you don't want to do that because it would kill the market. The existing body molds could still be used, but just how many more bodies are you going to produce out of those molds if there are hundreds, if not thousands, of each still available? While the body molds would be nice to have for use when the current inventory is depleted, there is not much use for them in the near future. So those are of little value for years to come.

The existing inventory will move very slowly. So those are of little immediate value as well.

Clearly the chassis holds the most promise, but even there it's probable that a significant investment will need to be made to get the Thunderplus modified to be an exact clone of the Aurora chassis, which I assume would be the ultimate goal.

And you still have the problem of production. You'll need the expertise and facilities to do the engineering, design, injection molding, gear manufacturing and assembly; not to mention packaging and marketing. Without a vendor supply chain, you're going nowhere. I'm guessing none of this comes with the company. Only someone with expertise in these areas would be able to own the company successfully.

Plus you are no doubt initially dealing in China. Remember how Dan at Dash lost his molds because the factory in China closed down? Just something to consider, although I'm sure all that would be settled before the company was purchased.

Joe


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