# Moebius Models forum announcement



## hankster (Jan 1, 1998)

The Moebius Models forum is no longer sponsored by Moebius nor will they be moderating it due to time constraints. They continue to be a HobbyTalk general site sponsor. I would like to thank them for their past support of the Moebius Models forum and for their continued support of HobbyTalk. They have been a great asset for SciFi modelers everywhere!


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## Auroranut (Jan 12, 2008)

WOW!!! I'm lost for words.....

Chris.


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## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

Oh maaaaaan ! Oh well if they want to spend the time coming up with more great models who am I to argue !


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## modelgeek (Jul 14, 2005)

Glad to have had them when we did!!! I agree with Trekkriffic..Let them spend the time moving the company and making more kits!!! Jeff


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## Seaview (Feb 18, 2004)

One too many wish lists, I guess. 
Thanks for listening while you were here, and we'll keep buying Moebius kits as long as you keep making them as great as you do! :wave:


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## Ductapeforever (Mar 6, 2008)

I agree seaview, I know Dave was pretty sick of all the wish lists and nit-picking the kits to death. I'm not at all surprised. Too bad a few people ruin it for all of us. Thank God all of you armchair kit designers can retire! *Complain* about the kits all you want, your cries thankfully will fall upon deaf ears. Fair winds and Godspeed Moebius! We will miss you.


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## Antimatter (Feb 16, 2008)

Dave, Dave... Dave, if you go, where shall I go? What shall I do? Fiddle-dee-dee,
what are we to do without Dave's lightning fast thread closings?


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## Antimatter (Feb 16, 2008)

Ductapeforever said:


> I agree seaview, I know Dave was pretty sick of all the wish lists and nit-picking the kits to death. I'm not at all surprised. Too bad a few people ruin it for all of us. Thank God all of you armchair kit designers can retire! *Complain* about the kits all you want, your cries thankfully will fall upon deaf ears. Fair winds and Godspeed Moebius! We will miss you.


That's pretty arrogant and presumptuous on your part to even suggest why they left. Also, you can tone down the attitude and language.


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## Dar (Apr 20, 2007)

Ductapeforever said:


> I agree seaview, I know Dave was pretty sick of all the wish lists and nit-picking the kits to death. I'm not at all surprised. Too bad a few people ruin it for all of us. Thank God all of you armchair kit designers can retire! *Complain* about the kits all you want, your cries thankfully will fall upon deaf ears. Fair winds and Godspeed Moebius! We will miss you.


While there were alot of wish lists, (especially from newcomers to this board) it may have generated more drama than was really neccessary. Im sure they are just really busy right now. They have several new kits to get ready this year.

Im sure we will get regular updates about Moebius in the future though. This is one of the best places on the net for them to spread the word about upcoming kits.:thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## Marko (Jul 11, 2002)

So long Dave, thanks for everything!!


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## Antimatter (Feb 16, 2008)

Wasn't it Polar Lights that at one time stopped communicating with their fanbase in the same way after having a hands on relationship for years? Yea, right before they were bought out.


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## Kit (Jul 9, 2009)

That seems like a pretty big reach. Also, PL slowed down a lot on the communciating once Lisa was gone, and that was a whole other story. Duc is probably right, very logical, and his statement did not seem arrogant at all.


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## Ductapeforever (Mar 6, 2008)

Thanks Kit, But I'm a big boy. I'll stand on my own two feet and on my statements as well!


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## Antimatter (Feb 16, 2008)

Kit said:


> Duc is probably right, very logical, and his statement did not seem arrogant at all.


Oh, not at all.


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## Kit (Jul 9, 2009)

Thanks!


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## Zorro (Jun 22, 1999)

Antimatter said:


> Wasn't it Polar Lights that at one time stopped communicating with their fanbase in the same way after having a hands on relationship for years? Yea, right before they were bought out.


Way wrong on your timeline.


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## Antimatter (Feb 16, 2008)

Zorro said:


> Way wrong on your timeline.


Well, I was being a bit facetious. Sorry you missed that.


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## Antimatter (Feb 16, 2008)

Let's everyone be in a bad mood, blame each other, go through all the scenarios, conspiracy theories, accusations, timelines, barbs, getting this all out of your system and then realize you'll never know the true answer or even if there was one. Nothing lasts forever. Frankly, I got tired of seeing everyone jump for joy about a kit, ask 10 thousand questions, get threads closed then opened on the same subject days later and when you praised the kit you were patted on the head, but then when you had complaint or a gripe, then a certain someone would either close the thread or chastise you. Life goes on.


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## iamweasel (Aug 14, 2000)

Not many can be seriously surprised by this.


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## Antimatter (Feb 16, 2008)

iamweasel said:


> Not many can be seriously surprised by this.


Is there a certain issue that you can point to? I haven't been in here much the last few months other than to post on the funny John P model thread. I've looked around at the posts and haven't seen anything to suggest that anyone was displeased with any kit from Moebius. I for one have always been pleased with the Moebius kits. Let's not mence words fellows, what's the real reason, if there is one. If there is then I think Hank should share or close this thread before it gets completely out of control with wild accusations.


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## Paulbo (Sep 16, 2004)

I'm pleased to know that the forum will remain - I'd heard rumors and thought that perhaps this forum would be closed.


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## Antimatter (Feb 16, 2008)

Paulbo said:


> I'm pleased to know that the forum will remain - I'd heard rumors and thought that perhaps this forum would be closed.


I ask again.............why?


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## Kit (Jul 9, 2009)

Seriously, because of the complainers.


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## Paulbo (Sep 16, 2004)

Antimatter said:


> I ask again.............why?


Haven't a clue. Perhaps we'll find out some day ... perhaps not.


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## mcdougall (Oct 28, 2007)

Chris just PM'd me this sad news....I don't know why, but I, for one, will miss this one on one with the Moebius Team.
Mcdee


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## Ductapeforever (Mar 6, 2008)

Perhaps it was a business decision, and none of our business. The reasons I chose to comment on only scratch the surface. Some of us have an inside line and know of what we speak.


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## teslabe (Oct 20, 2007)

I am at a lost for words...... And can't thank them enough for the time they gave us, I hope they know most of us love all they have done and look forward for the new stuff in the future. I'm Godsmacked........:drunk:


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## Dar (Apr 20, 2007)

Ductapeforever said:


> Perhaps it was a business decision, and none of our business. The reasons I chose to comment on only scratch the surface. Some of us have an inside line and know of what we speak.


Well whats done is done. Its a done deal. I just hope the forum continues to operate in a civil manner. I would hate to lose it as a resource. I value much here.


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## Moebius (Mar 15, 2007)

I really didn't want to respond to any of this, but it seems like it's the thing to do. I'm not leaving the boards, nor ignoring them in any way. Just not as much time as we used to have. Dave was doing the moderating, and it was taking up too much of his time. Some of the members seemed to have a problem with Dave, and I saw more than once that Dave was being referred to as the face of the company on here. Not the case at all. Dave just tried to keep order as he saw necessary, moderating in his spare time as a favor to me. Some people didn't like his style. But no one was truly interested in taking over the moderating. 

The way it's perceived by some, Dave ran it with favoritism towards the company. I don't see where this ever happened. A post was never deleted that I know of. If there's criticism of something we did, I'm happy to hear it so we can improve. But to go over the same thing over and over and over... "Frankenstein doesn't look like Karloff", "Iron Man is too stiff". Got it the first time, and unfortunately we know these things in the research we do before anyone outside of a small group has seen it. Some things can't be avoided. Some of it doesn't make me happy with the end product, but being on this side of it, I realize at some point it has to come out regardless or it never will. Like Hulk. I think we could still be working on it without getting an approval we were all happy with. 

A lot of threads were closed I do agree, but many were just a rehash of something that was gone over earlier. Like Spindrift. Or Green Lantern. I could post a list of what we'd like to do that extends 10 years down the road. Problem is, it can't all be done in the same year. What's a must have character/vehicle for one isn't on someone else's wish list. It's impossible to make everyone happy with every release every year. Nor can we let it out of the bag what we want to do with a license. Kind of takes the fun out of it if you knew what was coming for the next few years, wouldn't it? I'd get bored and just want to know further down the road! One year at a time is all we can commit to. Our 2010 schedule has changed drastically in the last 3-4 months. From what we were thinking of last year this time for 2010 is completely different. I don't think there's a thing on it that is actually being done. Other than finally finishing Monster Scenes.

Don't see this as us abandoning you. Still here, still plan on being here, it's just not our sponsorship any longer. We are a general board sponsor so we can keep HT running in the black (hopefully in the black!). The board is still so relevant that Hank wants to keep the Moebius board, and is assigning a moderator to it. This is best in the long run, as I hate to hear the comments of bias. The new moderator is not an employee, so hopefully it will make some of you happy that think there was bias here. But I can assure you that was never our intention to sway opinion. We will be putting something of a blog on our club page, and with any luck we'll have a comment section to it. We're working on it (hopefully it happens quicker than the club did!). If you don't want to join the club to read about new stuff because it has a price tag, send me an e-mail and I'll give you a login/password without the frills. Hope this clears it up a little. Frank.


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## Dar (Apr 20, 2007)

Thanks Frank. Glad you guys are indeed still sticking around.


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## ryoga (Oct 6, 2009)

Thanks for the assurance Frank. Its good to know you and Dave will still be around.


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## Moebius (Mar 15, 2007)

Me at least! To completely abandon this would be crazy on my part. So much of it I enjoy reading, while some make me scratch my head, I've been here nearly every day since it went up.


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## mcdougall (Oct 28, 2007)

ryoga said:


> Thanks for the assurance Frank. Its good to know you and Dave will still be around.


:thumbsupITTO THAT:thumbsup:
Mcdee


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## Dar (Apr 20, 2007)

Moebius said:


> Me at least! To completely abandon this would be crazy on my part. So much of it I enjoy reading, while some make me scratch my head, I've been here nearly every day since it went up.


It is enjoyable to read many posts here indeed. It has become a regular stop for me during late hours or my days off from work web surfing sessions.


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## Zorro (Jun 22, 1999)

Frank, you are one cool dude. :thumbsup:

I have it on inside authority that Harry Dean Stanton will be the new moderator. And he don't like wish lists.


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## Auroranut (Jan 12, 2008)

Thank you Frank. 
For the time you and Dave have devoted to us, for the respect you give us, and the enthusiasm you share with us.

Warm regards,
Chris.:wave:


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## scifimodelfan (Aug 3, 2006)

I would just like to say thank you for everything that you have done for this form and for the exceptional models that you have produce. Everyone should be thankful that there are guys like you that make there childhood memories come to life in three dimentional models. With that thank you again for everything.


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## Antimatter (Feb 16, 2008)

Good enough. I love your product and plan on buying more. I commend your decision on the moderator and hope this solves the only issues I had. Thank you for your time and your product.


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## mcdougall (Oct 28, 2007)

Moebius said:


> We will be putting something of a blog on our club page, and with any luck we'll have a comment section to it. We're working on it .


Looking forward to this Feature on your Club Moebius page :thumbsup:
Mcdee


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## Auroranut (Jan 12, 2008)

Same here....:thumbsup:

Chris.


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## kdaracal (Jan 24, 2009)

*Thanks, Moebius! You have changed my life and got me back into model building after 25 years! God Bless!*


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## hedorah59 (Nov 24, 2008)

Well, not as bad an announcement as I originally thought! I am glad to see that there will still be a Moebius forum and that you, Frank will still take part in it  Moebius has re-revived (Polar Lights revived it ) my interest in styrene kits and I thank you for that :wave:

I also want to give a big *THANK YOU* to Dave! Though some may not have cared for his style, he was performing a thankless job and I thought he did it well. Thanks Dave, I hope you will stay around and post every now and then :wave:


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## Seaview (Feb 18, 2004)

Thank you VERY MUCH for the re-assurances, Frank.
A funny thing happened; I was reading this thread and then when got to your post, I could've sworn I heard George Burns' voice when I read it, echoing like it did in the courtroom scene at the end of "Oh, God!"
Thanks again!


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## ClubTepes (Jul 31, 2002)

I can certainly understand how much time and frustration can be involved in the daily chores of moderating us bunch of knuckle-heads.

I have to hand it to Dave for being on the boards in the PL days.
Not knowing whether specifically Dave or Lisa was the one who really started it, but I firmly believe they were pioneers on using the internet to have an open 'back and forth' between customer and company.

That use of the boards back then created a unique loyalty towards PL.
I feel that loyalty was quite a bit to Dave himself, since he was also the one who was responsible for much if not all of the product they put out.

Dave gave PL a 'person' to relate to. Not a faceless corporate entity that gives us only what they 'say' were going to want.

I was glad to see that recreated here with Moebius. 

Again, I think a unique loyalty has been created thanks to both Dave and Franks participation on this board.
And again, I feel a pioneering aspect of modeling has been created thanks to these boards and those who attend Wonderfest.

Now, you have Moebius sharing info with aftermarket companies whom also participate on these boards so that aftermarket accessories can be produced at the same time as the kit development so that everything can reach the market at the same time.

Brilliant.

People should remember when things weren't like this.
Don't take it for granted.

Frank, Dave, you guys are great.
Don't forget what great thing you guys started here.


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## Dr. Brad (Oct 5, 1999)

Thanks for everything, Frank (and Dave) and everyone else at Moebius! And for the record, I'm really looking forward to the Moonbus! I've wanted one of those for years!


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## geoffdude (Mar 31, 2009)

This thread is a good example of an ongoing issue that dogs this forum.. lack of comprehension. When I read the announcement, I never once thought Frank or Moebius (one and the same) would stop participating in the forum. The announcement just said that Moebius moderation and sponsorship was stopping. Many people just don't read what is actually written.. they interpret, then react. Where did it say Frank would not post or chime in? It didn't. Words are POWERFUL, they can prevent much confusion if read as designed and intended. 

As many could probably guess, the loss of the current Moderator is not making me lose any sleep. Forums should be for discussing, and threads should not be closed unless really warrented. If any one person does not want to participate in any thread then it's their right to not participate by not posting. Simple. The thread will either go on without them or die from non-activity. It's the way things should be. Survival of the fittest.

If 10 people want to talk about Moebius possibly doing a Green Lantern model, and all that entails, let them. Others don't care, that's cool, just move on, that's the way things are on most other forums.

If 50 people want to talk about a model of John P. being made, then spend time doing funny photoshop pictures of John, let them. I don't really care for that, and don't want to participate, so I will find other threads that interest me.. and I wouldn't throw snide remarks at those that do.

I don't build as many models as I collect. I don't always want to talk about "building" models, I may want to discuss other aspects of the hobby, others may too. I may not want to post pics of Moebius models as WIPs, and being thanked for "sharing", or actually "building" something. I may want to stack all my un-built models into one large pile and enjoy them as a pile of models, and just smell them from time to time. My take on the hobby, not the moderators.

The general flavor of this forum of late though was discuss what is "subjectively" approved or risk the thread being closed, deleted or some other "punishment". Quite frankly, I'm glad if those days are behind us.

'nuff said,

g.


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## Ductapeforever (Mar 6, 2008)

I knew I shouldn't have ate, I feel that "rise"...


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## geoffdude (Mar 31, 2009)

Ductapeforever said:


> I knew I shouldn't have ate, I feel that "rise"...


Hey Duck, something I've been meaning to ask you for awhile. Didn't you once state you were done posting here, then came back, contrary to your convictions, within a day or so?

What happened there?



g.


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## Ductapeforever (Mar 6, 2008)

It's a free country, and I was personnally asked by many longtime members to stay. I spend my energy creating and building. Isn't it silly to be a member of a model building forum that exhausts their precious talent arguing and creating Kaos when they should be BUILDING?


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## Zombie_61 (Apr 21, 2004)

Say what you will about Dave's style of moderation, but I'm going to miss it. Okay, so occasionally his posts might have come across as though he was venting his frustrations (whether intentional or not), but you have to admit we modelers can be a frustrating lot at times (the customer is _*not*_ always right), and you always know where you stand with a guy like that--no nonsense, tells it like it is without sugar-coating it.

A most sincere "Thank you!" to Dave for putting up with us for as long as he did. :thumbsup:


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## geoffdude (Mar 31, 2009)

Ductapeforever said:


> It's a free country, and I was personnally asked by many longtime members to stay. I spend my energy creating and building. Isn't it silly to be a member of a model building forum that exhausts their precious talent arguing and creating Kaos when they should be BUILDING?


I see where you spend a portion of your energy, just as much as the rest of us. Your post a few lines above is a perfect example. Be real, and don't project some false righteousness.

Thanks for clearing up that going away, coming back situation. Always good to have friends. Free country works both ways too.. just in case that fact is lost on you.

Not a "building" forum by the way, it's a Moebius/fan forum.

g.


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## Ductapeforever (Mar 6, 2008)

Not false righteousness at all , I merely stated factual statements based on inside information from personal interaction with certain parties involved. As I said, I stand behind them. Most of us are old enough to act like adults and enjoy the many benefits of this and other hobby forums. If people would take the time to look at our fellow modelers builds we can learn from them and advance our skills. It is truely sad that many cannot.


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## geoffdude (Mar 31, 2009)

Ductapeforever said:


> Not false righteousness at all , I merely stated factual statements based on inside information from personal interaction with certain parties involved. As I said, I stand behind them. Most of us are old enough to act like adults and enjoy the many benefits of this and other hobby forums. If people would take the time to look at our fellow modelers builds we can learn from them and advance our skills. It is truely sad that many cannot.


When you "think" you're any different, or better, than anyone else doing something.. but you do it yourself, well that's defined as "self-righteousness". Just check back at your initial post in this very thread, you're as negative, and combative as anyone. Being "adult", "old" also means being truthful.. and not playing "games".

g.



> by duck
> I agree seaview, I know Dave was pretty sick of all the wish lists and nit-picking the kits to death. I'm not at all surprised. Too bad a few people ruin it for all of us. Thank God all of you armchair kit designers can retire! Complain about the kits all you want, your cries thankfully will fall upon deaf ears. Fair winds and Godspeed Moebius! We will miss you.


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## Ductapeforever (Mar 6, 2008)

There is nothing combative at all in that initial post, merely a statement of fact. I am no better than anyone else HERE and I value and respect the art and talent of the many members HERE. I 'learn' from everyone HERE and I don't hesitate shareing my talent with others HERE, If I can be of help so be it. I'm no expert, but I have been building most all of my life, look around...this is a dying hobby, and I do my best to encourage new builders to keep the hobby alive just a bit longer.


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## geoffdude (Mar 31, 2009)

Ductapeforever said:


> There is nothing combative at all in that initial post, merely a statement of fact. I am no better than anyone else here and I value and respect the art and talent of the many members here. I 'learn' from everyone here and I don't hesitate shareing my talent with others here, If I can be of help so be it. I'm no expert, but I have been building most all of my life, look around...this is a dying hobby, and I do my best to encourage new builders to keep the hobby alive just a bit longer.


Well, what about those "armchair kit designers" and "complainers" you're tired of. Would they still be worthy of your gracious building guidance? And would they also still be worthy to post here (even if unhappy with a kit's production)?

g.


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## Ductapeforever (Mar 6, 2008)

Anyone can post here, as long as they follow the rules of the community. Model companies don't produce models of anything they aren't willing to take a chance on. No matter how many consumers wish it. They are in business to make a profit on products they sell to us. If they don't think a subject can support sales in a big way it won't see the light of day. We all have a 'pet' vehicle or character we'd like to see made into a model and 90 percent will remain in our dreams. Practicle business application demands it.
The'armchair designers' out there cannot all be pleased. The companies do get tired of hearing about these wishes over and over. Petitions, letter writeing campaigns, phone calls or complaining won't change that.


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## geoffdude (Mar 31, 2009)

Ductapeforever said:


> Anyone can post here, as long as they follow the rules of the community.


Cool. Thanks for giving all of us the green-light to post here then. Are there specific rules about "arm-chair designers, complainers, non-building modlers" we should adhere to?



Ductapeforever said:


> Model companies don't produce models of anything they aren't willing to take a chance on.


Well, sounds like a maybe few Moebius models have NOT sold as imagined. I don't have the numbers, just the vague comments from big "D". So that statement doesn't hold true, on the surface, it seems.



Ductapeforever said:


> No matter how many consumers wish it. They are in business to make a profit on products they sell to us. If they don't think a subject can support sales in a big way it won't see the light of day.


I don't think any model company thinks that any model would be selling in a "big" way these days.



Ductapeforever said:


> We all have a 'pet' vehicle or character we'd like to see made into a model and 90 percent will remain in our dreams. Practicle business application demands it.
> The'armchair designers' out there cannot all be pleased. The companies do get tired of hearing about these wishes over and over.


Part of running a business. It's a non-issue.. any company that produces a product will get consumer comments pro and con. It's how they deal with those customers that makes them thumbs-up or thumbs-down in most peoples (customers) eyes.



Ductapeforever said:


> Petitions, letter writeing campaigns, phone calls or complaining won't change that.


Does at my company, and at many others too (ones that survive). This transcends just developing a new model kit, at it's core, it's about listening to what is being said about product(s), service and providing customer's with respect, patience and tolerance.

You're all over the board Duck, you start off in this thread complaining about complainers and arm chair designers, throwing a jab at me, then venture off into peaching about providing assistance to other modelers, yadaa yadda, then to talking about business practices and profit margins.

Seems like these models you've been touting as needing building aren't getting your full attention lately. Just say'n'.. 'cause I'm not sure what your agenda is anymore.

g.


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## Ductapeforever (Mar 6, 2008)

I concede to your masterful superior intellect. Your observations make so much sence I am at a loss for words, so I'll just take my 'agenda' on down the road. Maybe I can find a model to build if my feeble skills will allow it!


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## geoffdude (Mar 31, 2009)

Ductapeforever said:


> I concede to your masterful superior intellect. Your observations make so much sence I am at a loss for words, so I'll just take my 'agenda' on down the road. Maybe I can find a model to build if my feeble skills will allow it!


See ya. :wave:

Be sure to post WIPs of whatever you get going. :thumbsup:

regards,

g.


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## Ductapeforever (Mar 6, 2008)

Sure, right after I see WIP's of your stuff!


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## geoffdude (Mar 31, 2009)

Ductapeforever said:


> Sure, right after I see WIP's of your stuff!


That ain't going to happen, didn't you read (understand) my earlier post. :freak:

I don't build these things, I collect them. Stack them in big piles, and go out in the garage and look at them. I was serious. 

* I only restore older models (Zorro currently :thumbsup:, but wrong forum to share WIPs).


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## Ductapeforever (Mar 6, 2008)

Makes perfectly good sense to me. Perhaps I'm approaching this hobby all wrong. I need to ask Model Companies to produce models of my favorite secondary comic characters just so I can have them gather dust in my garage. Why spend months of hard work putting them together? Clearly I can't enjoy'm as well as you. This has been a perfectly good waste of a few hours of my life...


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## geoffdude (Mar 31, 2009)

Ductapeforever said:


> Makes perfectly good sense to me. Perhaps I'm approaching this hobby all wrong. I need to ask Model Companies to produce models of my favorite secondary comic characters just so I can have them gather dust in my garage. Why spend months of hard work putting them together? Clearly I can't enjoy'm as well as you. This has been a perfectly good waste of a few hours of my life...


Ahh.. you see Duck, here's the fundamental problem cursing through these boards, raising it's ugly head clearly. Intolerance. You've defined what this hobby is for all of us, and we all should follow suit. When/if we don't.. well, we can't be enjoying the hobby as much as you, and we certainly shouldn't be posting anything that doesn't meet your level of acceptance it seems.

What's interesting though.. if you do a search of myself, and maybe some of these "complainers" and arm chair designers your're unhappy with, you'll probably notice not a one of us ever complained, or got peturbed, because people DISCUSSED, in detail, about "building" models, or showing pictures of WIPs. If interested we joined in, if not, we just moved on to threads we wanted to participate in. No chest-thumping "enough WIP threads, one is the same as the other.." comments. Ever. Interesting that, in showing true tolerance.

g.


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## Ductapeforever (Mar 6, 2008)

Tolerance,... I doesn't make me no nevermind If you enjoy collecting Rat Droppings! I'm sure that somewhere on this big wonderful world there are groups of people who enjoy collecting Rat Droppings, ...they might even have internet forums where they can discuss size, texture, color, etc. If your thing is collecting model kits then thats wonderful. But I will excercise my right to enjoy collecting and BUILDING them, and share my work with others who enjoy it too. Oh...and express my appreciation to those manufacturers who take the time to share their enthusiasm to produce something we enjoy building and not complain about minor inperfections expressed by others who enjoy shareing their dismay with the rest of us!


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## geoffdude (Mar 31, 2009)

Ductapeforever said:


> Tolerance,... I doesn't make me no nevermind If you enjoy collecting Rat droppings. I'm sure that somewhere on this big wonderful world there are groups of people who enjoy Rat droppings, they might even have internet forums where they can discuss size, texture, color, etc. If your thing is collecting model kits then thats wonderful. But I will excercise my right to enjoy collecting and BUILDING them, and share my work with others who enjoy it too. Oh...and express my appreciation to those manufacturers who take the time to share their enthusiasm to produce something we enjoy building and don't complain about minor inperfections expressed by others who enjoy shareing their
> dismay with the rest of us!










:thumbsup:

Ok, fair enough, and well said.

Time for bed, see ya later.

regards,

g.


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## Ductapeforever (Mar 6, 2008)

:wave: Peace Out!
Herb

Why do I feel like I've been dragged for miles in the subway? Hallelujah ! Where's the Tylenol?


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## Hunch (Apr 6, 2003)

"other than finaly finishing the Monster Scenes"
I said it at Chiller, but I'll say it again...You the man Frank!
Jim and Judy


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Dave, can you close this thread now that it's turned into the Duck & Geoff Show?

Dave?

Crap.






Actually, I understand Dave's moderating style completely, because he's a lot like me - we get angry/fed up/frustrated easily. Sure I disagreed with him shutting threads down now and then, but I understood.


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## Antimatter (Feb 16, 2008)

Gee, I guess I miss Dave after all.


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## modelgeek (Jul 14, 2005)

John P said:


> Dave, can you close this thread now that it's turned into the Duck & Geoff Show?
> 
> Dave?
> 
> ...


Wow! Maybe Dave is human after all ..I thought he was a Cyborg Mod!!
Thanks Dave and Frank...Jeff


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## kangg7 (Jun 21, 2000)

I would like to start by saying a huge heartfelt "THANKS" to Frank, Dave, and the rest of the Moebius team.
But I my main point here is a special "THANKS" to Dave directely. Dave has had a very big part in bringing us the kits we have come to love,first with Polar lights, then with Moebius.
I for one, will miss his unique insights into the workings of the two companies, as well as sharing his understanding of the industry as a whole . Dave has brought something extra to this forum, and his presence will be missed .
I hope you will continue to post here from time to time Dave, and I hope all is well with you. Take care.

Model on ... :wave:

Dave C


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## Zathros (Dec 21, 2000)

Good to see you sticking around, Frank...Thats all I going to say other than this forum to me, is about discussing models of any kind, as well as wish lists, etc...

Z


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

Actually I am never in favor of manufacturers, publishers, etc sponsoring boards. IMHO it leads to a conflict of interest. My participation in boards is not based on who owns or runs it either.

When companies become directly involved in boards, they tend to become very heavy moderators. Osprey did this when they bought Missing Links some years back. Its like they become defensive if the board is not a cheerleader for their own product line. 

A manufacturer will have a totally different agenda than a hobbyist. Its not that one view point is more valid or important, but they are different and often mutally exclusive. I can sort of see both sides as a hobby retailer... what I like and need personally as a modeller are quite a bit different than what I need for my business to make money.

I think it is valid to comment on a kits problems as well. If you bought a model of a Ford F150 but it had the hood of a Dodge Ram, wouldn't you at least mention that? If you buy a kit for $110 and it has warped parts, thats a fair comment too. 

If kit companies DONT listen to comments (good and bad) then they will fail. Even the big boys like Tamiya look at whats going on with other kits. People slammed their 1/48 Gloster Meteor jet for having the wrong wings (they worked from a rebuilt museum plane that was cobbled together from assorted airframes). Well Tamiya retooled the wings and fixed the problems. Likewise, Trumpeter pulled their 1/32 Grumman Wildcat from the market and issed a substantially new kit because of initial very negative criticizm. 

Sometimes modellers become blinded by their own personal likes or desires. They become willing to settle for less saying well its better than nothing and we should be happy with it. I dont agree there... there is always room for improvememnt. People shouldnt be satisfied with less because its better than nothing... nor should a manufacturer. They should strive to be the best in their area.


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

If Frank and Moebius wanted to sponsor a particular board, then they are well within their right to have a say in the tone. The attitudes displayed in this thread show just why it was not worth the hassle to bring their customers the best, accurate, and fastest information available on upcoming products. In exchange for this info, we were given the ability to discuss, civilly, their works. Seems like a good deal to me! Frank is a friend of mine, I know a lot of things planned for the future, I just hope half of them come to pass. This board will go nuts over them, but it will now take more time for the info to reach this page. Thanks to Frank and Dave for ALL the work they have done, now put your efforts into bringing us the great kits we may or may not deserve!

Ron Nastrom


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## hankster (Jan 1, 1998)

I would suggest that those that have a personal issue with someone else take that issue to email. No one else cares. I can encourage that further if needed.


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## spock62 (Aug 13, 2003)

djnick66 said:


> ...I think it is valid to comment on a kits problems as well. If you bought a model of a Ford F150 but it had the hood of a Dodge Ram, wouldn't you at least mention that? If you buy a kit for $110 and it has warped parts, thats a fair comment too.
> 
> Sometimes modellers become blinded by their own personal likes or desires. They become willing to settle for less saying well its better than nothing and we should be happy with it. I dont agree there... there is always room for improvememnt. People shouldnt be satisfied with less because its better than nothing... nor should a manufacturer. They should strive to be the best in their area.


Couldn't have said it better myself, djnick66. That's the point I was trying to make back a while ago regarding a then current Moebius release. Unfortunately, it seems that some people here take great offense to anyone being critical of a kit from their favorite model company. If having an critical opinion of a kit has caused Dave to stop moderating this forum, then that's his choice, but the people that voice those opinions shouldn't be made to look like the villain for the choice he made.

At any rate, I'm glad that Frank will still be stopping by every now and then.


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## ryoga (Oct 6, 2009)

hankster said:


> I would suggest that those that have a personal issue with someone else take that issue to email. No one else cares. I can encourage that further if needed.


I have to support this. Lets keep this forum constructive as a lot of people here uses the forum for advice and ideas.


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## mrmurph (Nov 21, 2007)

Let me add my voice to the chorus of those thanking Frank and Dave for taking on the forum. I hope they continue as active participants, and I look forward to their future posts. Your efforts, insights, and input are greatly appreciated.

- Murph


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## jaws62666 (Mar 25, 2009)

mrmurph said:


> Let me add my voice to the chorus of those thanking Frank and Dave for taking on the forum. I hope they continue as active participants, and I look forward to their future posts. Your efforts, insights, and input are greatly appreciated.
> 
> - Murph


I concur. I have been building kits for a very long time, and the kits these guys are producing are the kits I have always dreamed of having. Please keep in touch with us , and continue to put out the fantastic kits that you have in store for us now and in the future.


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## rkoenn (Dec 18, 2007)

I suspect this happened primarily due to work load. But if you have boards like this, which were not available before the age of the internet, you know you are going to get people expressing their wishes on such boards. It is just natural, there are many people out there who do not think beyond their small sphere and do not realize that a company like Moebius has to make fairly accurate guesses as to what products will be profitable or not. The cost to put any of these into production is huge so obviously they have to be picky. I'm sure the kid next door would like a Mighty Mouse plastic model but a Moebius type company is not going to produce it. In the days before the internet it would have required a letter to Aurora and that has some low level filtering and ends up in the waste can mostly. Here it gets some views so a bit more fame. Mostly I simply ignore them as the desires of the unrealistic although they can be fun to take a glance at. I always felt there was no need to get up tight about it as too many do. Simply ignore the post and look for the good posts. But as long as Moebius keeps producing great and mostly nostalgic models I will be a customer.


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## Dar (Apr 20, 2007)

rkoenn said:


> I suspect this happened primarily due to work load. But if you have boards like this, which were not available before the age of the internet, you know you are going to get people expressing their wishes on such boards. It is just natural, there are many people out there who do not think beyond their small sphere and do not realize that a company like Moebius has to make fairly accurate guesses as to what products will be profitable or not. The cost to put any of these into production is huge so obviously they have to be picky. I'm sure the kid next door would like a Mighty Mouse plastic model but a Moebius type company is not going to produce it. In the days before the internet it would have required a letter to Aurora and that has some low level filtering and ends up in the waste can mostly. Here it gets some views so a bit more fame. Mostly I simply ignore them as the desires of the unrealistic although they can be fun to take a glance at. I always felt there was no need to get up tight about it as too many do. Simply ignore the post and look for the good posts. But as long as Moebius keeps producing great and mostly nostalgic models I will be a customer.


Exactly. Also one has to remember that many new members may make a suggestion and have no idea that it has been presented before. We have to be patient with newcomers. I personally never saw any problem with wish lists or suggestions. I think most do it just for fun. I never took it as whining to Moebius. (Though there have been some posters who do complain about prices of aftermarket stuff.) Again as you said its just best to ignore posts or threads like this if it bothers people so much. No need to get upset.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Now, about that Spindrift kit...


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## g_xii (Mar 20, 2002)

John P said:


> Now, about that Spindrift kit...


Dave leaves, and it all falls apart. There will be a new sheriff in Moebius Town soon.

John, I got yer SPINDRIFT for ya! 

--Henry


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## Lloyd Collins (Sep 25, 2004)

What is my reaction.....:freak:

To everyone who :beatdeadhorse: are you :lol: now?


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

It's great to see Moebius will still be hanging around here and not abandoning this forum and interesting to read what Frank said, in particular about hearing both the praise and the criticisms, which after all is what these forums are about. 

That said, apart from one or two tiny gripes and things outside of their control (like Marvel's interference with the poses) most of the comments I've seen on here have been overwhelmingly positive towards Moebius, but I think it's in theirs and our interests to see both sides and threads left to run their course a bit more.


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## terryr (Feb 11, 2001)

This one thread shows why he left.


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## Gilusions (Apr 25, 2006)

After reading some of the treads on some of the forums I see it a different way.
I have been doing something with models most of my life. It was not always easy to find out what was coming out as fast as it it is now. There is also a lot of work and money to make any product. 

And there is a wish list that I have as well. But the fact of the matter is some models will not always be the way it is on the show some of the big props change on the same episode in the Irwin Allen shows. 

So when I visit the forums I remember where if there is some thing that needs attention on a model there were ways and sometime an easy fix to make it work.(where are you guys?) 

I like it when an x-acto some plastic glue and there is an addition to the model to make it look great! I come here to l see what I need to make a masterpiece.

Most of the people I make contact with don't have the advantage I do, such as a model club contest etc.... So for some of the people that come here are to far to a local club so they come here to learn or show what can be done.

Sure there are the guys that are saying my keyboard is bigger then theirs 
but whats the point what we have here are a group of enthusiast that like to show the same interest If it is to collect or build it is a passion we all have.

Myself I like to see more WIP that is now my wish list.

Gil


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## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

The only thing that surprises me is that this didn't happen sooner. 

I for one am happy Frank and Dave will be concentrating on the important stuff, and not wasting their time policing this forum. Obviously they'll continue to monitor what goes here (I certainly don't get the impression we're being "abandoned"), and I for one totally support their decision.

Now, about that Spindrift...


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## Griffworks (Jun 24, 2002)

_There's going to be a Spindrift kit_?!?


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## TAY666 (Jan 8, 2000)

Carson Dyle said:


> The only thing that surprises me is that this didn't happen sooner.
> 
> I for one am happy Frank and Dave will be concentrating on the important stuff, and not wasting their time policing this forum. Obviously they'll continue to monitor what goes here (I certainly don't get the impression we're being "abandoned"), and I for one totally support their decision.



Totally took the words right out of my mouth.

I would like to send out a big thanks to both Frank and Dave for all that they do.
See you in Louisville in about 4 months.


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## Moebius (Mar 15, 2007)

TAY666 said:


> Totally took the words right out of my mouth.
> 
> I would like to send out a big thanks to both Frank and Dave for all that they do.
> See you in Louisville in about 4 months.


Yep, just 4 months. And of course with less time here, there's more time to drink in Louisville...


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## Dar (Apr 20, 2007)

terryr said:


> This one thread shows why he left.


This thread has been mostly civil. :thumbsup: Except for a few whys and what fors, I dont think anyone has been truely disrespectful. People were bound to question it and maybe be passionately at odds about it. Nothing new there. Its human nature.


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## m jamieson (Dec 18, 2008)

terryr said:


> This one thread shows why he left.


I for one don't think any good businessmen would walk away under such a shallow premise as "some people complained too much" and to insist that "that is the reason" is kinda insulting them by inferring they lack character and/or are really thin skinned, which I am certain is not the case! Why would they feel betrayed by feedback when it seems more like 98% of the posts here have elevated them to the level of deity!! (and I'm sure even that can get tiring after awhile..lol). 
If Dave is getting too busy to moderate..then that is good, because business is good! If he is just sick of doing it (which he does for free) who can blame him! Even if all the posts were happy happy happy and no one ever made a repetitive post, or nit-picked or asked for a Spindrift...it would still get old after awhile. No reason to panic and think that they are 'bailing' or are turning their backs on their clients interest in a forum about their own product ... cause that just doesn't make much sense business wise in my opinion, and I give them WAY more credit then that! And the "Some people said mean things...so I'm gonna take my modeling company and go home!!" sentiment really makes no sense either.


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## Dracula (Jun 5, 2005)

Moebius said:


> Yep, just 4 months. And of course with less time here, there's more time to drink in Louisville...


Gee I wish I could make it to Louisville but cant use my vacation time in march, darn, darn. 

Thanks Frank for all you have done on this board and your fine kits, looking to the Lagosi Dracula kit this year and many more to come. Also Thanks to Dave for his work on this board. I will miss you guys. By the way Frankenstein looks great and does Karloff justice. As we say on the railroad it was a great run. :wave:


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## teslabe (Oct 20, 2007)

It seems once a year the group has a meltdown, I think last year was that "stunt guy".....:freak: I hope we soon can get back to the hobbies we all love.


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## Dar (Apr 20, 2007)

Most of the meltdowns are just weird though.The Stuntman thing got overblown and escalted out of control very quickly. Just silly stuff that shouldnt really bother people, but yet it does. It is interesting to say the least. Tells us alot about internet relationships. Most of these situations could be avoided though. Most begin because of misunderstandings, based on the written word.


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## m jamieson (Dec 18, 2008)

And it appears Ductape may be gone too... his painting and detail guide is.


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## teslabe (Oct 20, 2007)

Dar said:


> Most of the meltdowns are just weird though.The Stuntman thing got overblown and escalted out of control very quickly. Just silly stuff that shouldnt really bother people, but yet it does. It is interesting to say the least. Tells us alot about internet relationships. Most of these situations could be avoided though. Most begin because of misunderstandings, based on the written word.


Stuntman was "self-adulation" out of control and went on far too long and made too many very upset for far too long...... Nothing got overblow, just beat too death by one person.:wave:


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## Dar (Apr 20, 2007)

teslabe said:


> Stuntman was "self-adulation" out of control and went on far too long and made too many very upset for far too long...... Nothing got overblow, just beat too death by one person.:wave:


It never bothered me. Stuntman was spurned on by delighted members.:lol: He did seem like a nice fellow though. It was interesting though to see. 

Wow I cant believe "Stuntgate" happened 9 months ago.:freak: How time flies.


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## mcdougall (Oct 28, 2007)

Yes time does fly when you're having fun :thumbsup:
...and Moebius has had a lot to do with this, these past couple of years:thumbsup:
Keep up the Great work...because I'm still buying them all!
Cheers Moebius:wave:
Mcdee


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## teslabe (Oct 20, 2007)

Dar said:


> How time flies.


So true and at my age it flies far too fast.......


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## teslabe (Oct 20, 2007)

mcdougall said:


> Yes time does fly when you're having fun :thumbsup:
> ...and Moebius has had a lot to do with this, these past couple of years:thumbsup:
> Keep up the Great work...because I'm still buying them all!
> Cheers Moebius:wave:
> Mcdee


You couldn't be more right, my friend..... Long live Moebius....:thumbsup:


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## m jamieson (Dec 18, 2008)

Maybe that's why some people have gotten so fast at building...so many models, so little time! lol


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## teslabe (Oct 20, 2007)

m jamieson said:


> Maybe that's why some people have gotten so fast at building...so many models, so little time! lol


Have you been talking to my doctor, did he say something about my time left 
in this group????? LOL......


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## m jamieson (Dec 18, 2008)

I'm sure someone on their deathbed will say " Is...is..gasp..is it the SPINDRIFT that is finally coming out? Cause if it is..cough..I'm NOT GOING!!"


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## teslabe (Oct 20, 2007)

m jamieson said:


> I'm sure someone on their deathbed will say " Is...is..gasp..is it the SPINDRIFT that is finally coming out? Cause if it is..cough..I'm NOT GOING!!"


LOL.....


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## Auroranut (Jan 12, 2008)

teslabe said:


> Have you been talking to my doctor, did he say something about my time left
> in this group????? LOL......


Can't say- we were told not to, but please pass on our condolences to your wife.....

Chris.


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## teslabe (Oct 20, 2007)

Auroranut said:


> Can't say- we were told not to, but please pass on our condolences to your wife.....
> 
> Chris.


OMG, I'm MARRIED......:drunk:


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## Auroranut (Jan 12, 2008)

...sorry, I..er...meant...girlfriend?....

Chris.


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## m jamieson (Dec 18, 2008)

teslabe said:


> OMG, I'm MARRIED......:drunk:


Yes...I remember I had the very same reaction when I woke up that fateful morning.


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## Griffworks (Jun 24, 2002)

Dracula said:


> Gee I wish I could make it to Louisville but cant use my vacation time in march, darn, darn.


WonderFest is in May, just so's ya know. 




m jamieson said:


> And it appears Ductape may be gone too... his painting and detail guide is.


So, he punishes _everyone_ by taking down useful information because he's upset w/one or three people....?


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## razorwyre1 (Jan 28, 2004)

first off, thanks much to frank and dave for getting this forum started and modding it as long as they did. 

dave, im gonna miss you as a mod. i dont know if anyone else has mentioned or thought about this, but if most members are like me, we only read a certain percentage of topics, those that interest us. i cannot imagine having to read each and every last post, and shudder to think the amount of time that had to take. so i can absolutely understand the decision to back away from that.

let me add my voice to those wishing you well in the future!


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## BatToys (Feb 4, 2002)

A company's goal in moderating a board to is foster good public relations with it's customers without alienating them. I think Moebius made a wise business decision to stop moderating and analyze how to improve their public relations.


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## g_xii (Mar 20, 2002)

I think we've all said enough here!

--Henry


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