# Makeshift controller hookup....brakes?



## Jim Norton (Jun 29, 2007)

I am planing on cutting the length of wire from modern day AFX controllers. What this gives me is a wire with the orange Tomy plug.

This will allow me to attach the white and black wires from a Parma controller to the 2 AFX wires.

My question is can the brake on the controller work with having only 2 wires to work with?

Jim Norton
Huntsville, AL


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## Jim Norton (Jun 29, 2007)

In other words what can I attach the brake wire to in order to have brakes when you just have 2 hookups?

Jim Norton
Huntsville, AL


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## Boosted-Z71 (Nov 26, 2007)

Jim the track has to be wired correctly for the 3rd wire to work as a brake, your Tomy power terminal is not configured from the factory to work with brakes. If you look at this site http://www.hoslotcarracing.com/ look in the category Electronics and about 1/3 of the way down the page is a picture of how a lane is wired for brakes, compare this to how your terminal is connected to connector plug & the rails on the bottom and it should be evident in the differences. You can use the Tomy terminal tracks to do what you want but you will need to cut some of the connections on the bottom and separate the lanes as in the picture and just add a tap to connect the 3rd wire. Look at the pics its not as difficult as this explanation makes it sound.

Boosted


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## oddrods (Feb 6, 2007)

Hey Jim,
You need 3 wires to have brakes.

Rob Rose
Mongrel Racing


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## Jim Norton (Jun 29, 2007)

The reason I ask is that I recall race sets with AFX controllers with the brake wire and the instructions stating that the brake wire was clipped on the terminal piece somehow.

I figured if it could be done with AFX track it could be done with TOMY AFX.

Whats the difference? Thanks.

Jim Norton
Huntsville, AL


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

The brake doesn't have go anywhere near the track if you don't want it to.
The brake is done by basically shorting out the controller and power supply.
Find the negative side of your wallwart,usually it's the lead that's not ribbed or marked,splice into that wire,and your red wire from the controller hooks there,no track mod's needed.
I used to carry a short jumper with me for tracks that didn't have brakes,and just clip onto the negative side of the power supply,and then clip onto my controllers red lead.
If you study wiring diagrams with brakes shown,they make it look more complicated then it actually is,just remember the red wire always ties back to the negative side of your power,and that applies to both positive and negative polarity tracks:wave:
Rick


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## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

probably controller 101 here and maybe I need some tutoring. let me think aloud. if the power supply is permanently connected to the negative rail of the track, the controller is regulating the flow of the positive side from the power supply. so, .... the wiper arm wire needs to be connected to the positive rail and the resistor wire needs to be connected to the positive terminal of the power supply. 
there fore when the wiper arm is not in contact with the resistors and IS in contact with the red wire lead button the rails both become energized as negative from the power supply. 
if this is the case, a light bulb finally went on in my tiny brain and i had an epiphany. 
and, i must look closer at controllers and track wiring to understand this fully. 
I have only really been drag racing and it was never real important what circuit the controller regulated and i had it in my head that a dead short would be rather destructive to something. 
I am not so sure that my explanation of the controller circuit above actually allows for a dead short though. 
any and all input desired, accepted and processed. thank you in advance. al.


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## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

now maybe i could use a detailed explanation, in laymans terms, of a positive polarity track and a negative polarity track and the specific differences. 
would a negative polarity track be controlling the power from the power source through the controllers on the negative leg?


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## cwbam (Feb 8, 2010)

*It can be done!!!*

I'm no electrical wizard. 
I did it with TOMY track & 12 volt below (just cut & strip any power supply (leave enough to reconect or use later))

http://www.scaleauto.com/bsrt/gjet_pwr.htm


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## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

so, in brake configuration, there is actually a dead short between the rails which build resistance into the the spinning Direct Current motor and slows it down?


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

You got it Al.
A negative track has the controller in the negative feed back to the power supply.
Full power is applied to the positive rail,and the controller controls the power on the negative side of things.By vary'ing the amount of negative current allowed back to the power supply,it controls the track power.
A positive track has the controller in the positive lead to the track,and only applies power to the positive rail,when you squeeze the controller's trigger,the other rail is the negative rail .

If you look that diagram over closely you'll see what i mean about it looking more complicated then it actually is.

Where the red wire makes the big "T" ,just move that "T" junction over to the left a little ways and make it right at the power supplies negative post or wire if using a wallwart:thumbsup:
You still have a feed from the negative rail,so you end up with 2 wires at the negative post if your using a power supply,if your using a wallwart,just splice a connector of some sort into the negative side of it,that'll let you hook up your red lead from your controller.
This is assuming you've cut the common under the terminal strip,and are using one terminal strip per lane
Rick


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## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

" A negative track has the controller in the negative feed back to the power supply.
Full power is applied to the positive rail,and the controller controls the power on the negative side of things.By vary'ing the amount of negative current allowed back to the power supply,it controls the track power.

.... ,just remember the red wire always ties back to the negative side of your power,and that applies to both positive and negative polarity track "

in the case of the negative power flow through the controller, how would a dead short across the rails be obtained if the red brake wire to the controller was wired to the negative? if the common directly from the power supply is positive? 

?


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

Car completes the circuit across the rails,
Having a car on the rails is the same as laying a bar across the rails,when it comes to completing the circuit.
Dynamic braking is done through the controller,not the track,although you can emulate it,by running a car and laying a bar of steel across the rails at the same time.
Basically dynamic braking shorts both rails together,but it's done inside the controller


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## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

so, with the negative power going through the controller to one rail and the direct common positive going to the other rail and the red wire going to the negative, how do both rails become positive or both rails become negative when the controller is in the brake position? don't both rails have to be the same polarity in order for the shunt to provide braking resistance into the spinning armature on the Direct Current motor? 

" .... ,just remember the red wire always ties back to the negative side of your power,and that applies to both positive and negative polarity tracks "

I am just trying to get a handle on exactly how this works and in my mind this configuration doesn't. if the red wire were to the positive( common in this case ) then i could see the controller creating a short in the brake configuration position. 

please advise.


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

When the car is on the rails it's a completed circuit.
The rails don't become both positive or negative at the same time,basically all your doing is shorting them together.
Without a car on the rails there isn't a complete circuit,once you have a car completing the circuit,the brake circuit is the same as laying a bar across the rails while the car is in motion.
If your tracks wired negative polarity,you don't want to leave a car sitting on the rails motionless,with the controller sitting on the brake circuit and the power on


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## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

OK, so with the negative flowing to the controller on the white wire to the resistor side of the controller 
and
the black wire coming from the wiper arm on the trigger the one rail becomes negative when the trigger is squeezed?

the red wire coming from the negative post of the power supply to the brake button in the controller would create the same circuit when the trigger is off? 

if indeed the positive wire is wired permanently to one rail that is NOT controlled by the controller? 

" .... ,just remember the red wire always ties back to the negative side of your power,and that applies to both positive and negative polarity tracks " ?


?


" If your tracks wired negative polarity,you don't want to leave a car sitting on the rails motionless,with the controller sitting on the brake circuit and the power on "

I don't understand how the car could remain motionless in this condition if the trigger is at rest and the brake is activated and the red wire is going to the negative and the white wire is going to the negative and the positive is permanently wired to the rail that is NOT controlled by the controller.

did I misunderstand?

?


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

Ya'll give Jim a brake...


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

Black wire is going to the negative,the white wire is still receiving positive power once the car is on the rails.
If you got a car with fairly strong magnets,use a short jumper across the pick-up shoes,and if your fingers are good,you should be able to feel more resistance to turning the back tires compared to no short.
Basically the brake circuit shorts both pick-ups together,and throws the car into a dead short mode.
That's why it doesn't matter how your wired,you're still trying to short both pick-ups together.
It's hard to comprehend sometimes,but basically positive and negative circuits don't apply to the brake circuit,it's basically an electrical short that causes brakes,and the short circuit doesn't care which way power is flowing.
I'm try'ing Al,but sometimes i have a hard time getting things to make sense on paper.:thumbsup:
Rick


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## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

the white wire from the controller is getting positive feed from the power supply in a negative polarity wired track scenario? 
and the black wire from the wiper in the controller is going to the negative from the power supply? 


now I am really confused.

wouldn't that just cause a dead short as soon as you pulled the trigger? 

I am using a basic Parma controller with three wires here as my guide to where the different color wires lead to in the controller.
the white wire leads to the resistor cluster and wiper board
the black wire leads to the wiper arm that the trigger causes to sweep across the wiper board
the red wire leads to the little button that the wiper arm rests on when it is not in motion across the wiper board. 

am i not seeing that correctly?


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## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

I think I understand the concept of dynamic braking through shunting the rails in some manner. i have been doing that in the shut down of drag tracks for decades. but the explanation of a negative polarity track controlling the negative power feed through the controller and also havin the brake button wired to the negative power does not make sense to me. the controller would appear to be at full power when in the brake condition with that wiring scenario. 

" ,just remember the red wire always ties back to the negative side of your power,and that applies to both positive and negative polarity tracks "

and it is my understanding the the red wire only ever goes to the brake button in the controller.

?


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## Boosted-Z71 (Nov 26, 2007)

I quit trying to think of how / why track wiring works, I look at pictures and make the wires match the pictures, otherwise my head hurts for a long time. "Mongo just pawn in game of Life" explanation seems to fit well.

Boosted


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## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

[email protected] you funny man. you make me laugh!


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## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

hornet, i think what I am trying to say is: 

that if the controller is fed from the negative side of the power supply, then the brake wire cannot also be fed from the negative side of the power supply. 

I think that is what i mean. 

" ,just remember the red wire always ties back to the negative side of your power,and that applies to both positive and negative polarity tracks "


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

I think that's the mistake,you're thinking it's fed from the negative side if it's on the negative leg.
The controller still gets full positive power to the white lead as long as there's a car on the rails completing the positive feed to the controller.
With no car on the rails it's an open circuit,and no positive power flows to the white lead.
Power still flows the same direction in both polarities,the only differance is where the controller is in the circuit,one it's before the car,and in the other scenerio it's after the car.


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## cwbam (Feb 8, 2010)

and when you are ready for more

http://home.comcast.net/~medanic/Tech-1.htm


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## 2.8powerranger (Dec 13, 2004)

check out my photo album,I installed brakes on some old russkit controllers .worked pretty well. took an old t-jet shoe some wire and solder. The pic is helpfull, let me know if you have any questions how i did it.
http://photos.hobbytalk.com/showphoto.php/photo/16466


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## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

Hornet said:


> I think that's the mistake,you're thinking it's fed from the negative side if it's on the negative leg.
> The controller still gets full positive power to the white lead as long as there's a car on the rails completing the positive feed to the controller.
> With no car on the rails it's an open circuit,and no positive power flows to the white lead.
> Power still flows the same direction in both polarities,the only differance is where the controller is in the circuit,one it's before the car,and in the other scenerio it's after the car.


what part of the power supply is the white wire from the controller attached in a negative polarity track?


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

It's still connected to the positive side of the power supply,but it's after the car.

Full positive voltage runs to the power rail,goes through the car out to the other rail and then carries on to the white lead from your controller.
The controller is still wired basically the same,it's just after the car.

Drop the "Polarity" idea,that screws up alot of guys thinking,lets use the old proper terms,"Negative Gate" and "Positive Gate",those are the terms i prefer,as i think using "Polarity" is the problem.

Al i'm running out of ways to explain it,you're best bet is to go through the link to Maddmans site.
Steve's an electrical guru you might say:wave:
And there's a pile of good info on his site,a couple hours spent reading through it,might help you guys having problems wrapping your heads around track wiring.
Rick


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## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

" You got it Al.
A negative track has the controller in the negative feed back to the power supply.
Full power is applied to the positive rail,and the controller controls the power on the negative side of things.By vary'ing the amount of negative current allowed back to the power supply,it controls the track power. "



Hornet said:


> It's still connected to the positive side of the power supply,but it's after the car.
> 
> Full positive voltage runs to the power rail,goes through the car out to the other rail and then carries on to the white lead from your controller.
> The controller is still wired basically the same,it's just after the car.
> ...


perhaps the highlighted sentences agree, but i don't read em that way?


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## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

OK, so in a "positive gate" circuit the white lead of the controller is attached directly to the positive post of the power supply, ...

but

in a "negative gate " circuit the white wire from the controller goes to the rail of the track 

and 

the black wire from the wiper arm connects to the negative post of the power supply

and

in both cases the red wire lead from the brake button leads to the negative post of the power supply.

OK, now this moron finally sees how those circuits could work in those configurations.

so the track color attachments are different regarding the white and black in each of the different "gate" configurations. 

that makes sense. 
sorry i wasn't able to visualize from your explanation that the white wire would NOT be attached to the track the same way in each "gate" scenario. thank you for your patience.

al


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

LOL whew,i was starting to worry,was running out of ways to explain it,but i think you've got it now.:thumbsup:.

I can't draw pictures ,but if you can visualize the controller,the only differance between the 2 Gates or Polarities,is where the controller is placed in the circuit.

The teacher sucks,not the student,sorry Al,i could'a done a better job of s'plaining things.
Rick


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## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

hey man, I finally got it. you could have given up and said forget it. but you plugged along and I finally got the message. the white wire is always going to be bringing positive into the controller.


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

Yup,that's it.
I'm sorry Al,sometimes i have a hard time getting things on paper to match what i'm trying to s'plain.
Rick

I don't know if anybodies ever tested this or not,but i've always wondered if a Negative Gated track would be faster then a Positive Gated track for you dragstrip guys.

The car and rail are powered up in a negative track,and the electricity only has to go through the controller to complete the circuit,while a positive track has nothing past the controller till you hammer it,so everything still has to pass through controller/car and rail.
Not sure it would even be a measurable differance,but i've wondered:thumbsup:


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## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

Sgrig, my buddy Hank and now joeskylark all have "negative gate" drag tracks.


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

Did they ever run a positive gate track Al.
I'm curious if there is a measurable differance between the 2 styles on a dragstrip:thumbsup:
Rick


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## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

Sgrig bought a "positive gate" O-gauge continuous rail track from me before he got the Wiz track he now runs. because of the differences in track surface and rail gauge, I don't think comparisons would be accurate. he is using the same power source, so maybe he will answer that better than I could. I might also be mistaken about his current track being "negative gate". but, I wired Hanks and Joes, so I know those both are.


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## bemoore (Dec 23, 2008)

The answer to Jim's original question is...

Yes, it can be done, but you will lose the ability to reverse directions by just reversing the power connection. As Hornet said (back on page 1), you can just connect the controller brake wire to one lead from the power supply (wall wart). However... there's more to it than just that. Since you can reverse each of the connections to the terminal track (change of polarity), this will not work for every combination of polarity for each connector. And since I don't know exactly how the terminal track is wired, it will take trial & error to find the right combination. And once you find the right combination, you can't reverse any of the connectors at the terminal track. I.e. you won't be able to reverse direction by just reversing the power connection. Doing so will result in full power being applied with the controller in the full off position. However, once you find the right setup, you can still just turn around the terminal track to reverse directions.


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

Dslot did up some good diagrams awhile ago for reversing switches,watch the colour coding though,and Bemoore is right:thumbsup:

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=285660


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