# Magna-Traction/X-Traction Handling



## Voxxer (Oct 25, 2003)

Hi All:

Need help with my MT/XT handling. Here are my specs and the last race results.
I came in sixth place. The problem is not speed or even top end speed, but the handling in the corners. I would say that I run deep in to the corners, but, even if I coast, it does not seem to flow well.

FHRO Rules for class:


http://www.slotmonsters.com/club-frho-rules-XT-MT-class.ashx

Specs:

Body - Porsche Gulf 917 - MT
Chassis - MT - is square and flat
Top Plate - MT - is square and flat
Magnets - XT - matched
Arm - XT
Gears ( all but pinion ) MT
Pinion XT
Axle - Hard Drill Blank
Brushes - Wizzard
Brush Springs - XT
Pick-up - XT
PU Springs - MT
PU tension - about medium to the touch
Guide Pin - Metal adjustable JW's
Front - ( By Rules ) XT
Front Axle - XT - has been checked - it is straight
Front Rims - XT and are true and round
Front Tires - O-rings .411 O.D.
Back Rims - JW's .275 DF
Rear Tires - Tom Heisters AFX low
Rear Total O.D. .450
Total weight 20.7 grams
Body weight 4.1 grams

3 minute per lane on a Buck.


Magnatraction/X-Traction

Place Racer Laps Best Lap time

1st Walt Pierce 161.60 5.866
2nd Alan Wolcott 154.44 6.234
3rd Al Silverberg 151.33 6.221
4th Brett Ginsburg 144.31 6.150
5th AJ Hoyt 142.60 6.023 *
6th Jon Soffa - Voxxer 141.54 6.301
7th Sheldon Brunn 140.61 6.491
8th Chris Beyers 138.50 6.604
9th Geoff Campbell 136.07 6.137
10th Rick Coates 134.50 6.449
11th Jerry Readle 127.03 6.938
12th Joe Furuli 125.02 7.154
13th Damon Dirksen 122.24 6.938
14th Serge Arrestouilh 120.25 8.037
15th Pat Pansini 109.21 7.881
16th Steven Dirksen 102.48 7.230
17th Phil Kenney 80.04 8.176

* Lane Record

www.koinhedz.com

Thanks

Voxxer


----------



## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

What kind of controller? Brakes, no brakes? This could be where your problem lies.

Those hot lap times aren't very far from box stock ('cept for Walt's)...assuming by "Buck" you mean a Scorpion.


----------



## Jim Norton (Jun 29, 2007)

*Tires?*

Do you clean the tires with tape throughout the race? Dirty tires, as we all know, can kill a great car in the curves.

Jim Norton 
Huntsville, AL


----------



## Voxxer (Oct 25, 2003)

*MT/XT Wheel set*

Hi:

Yes we ran that race on a Buck Scorpion. After every heat I cleaned the tires and pick-up shoes.

I use a Difalco E-motion Fanatic. Brake on. Full choke. Pots slow. Full Brake on. Racing terms, I think it would be tight, you turn the wheel and the car does not turn. I would say my car is as fast as Walt, but no way handels the curves like his.


Voxxer


----------



## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

It seems a little weird to run both full brake and full choke. This leaves you basically with no adjustability other than sensitivity, which is a brute force lever to be tweaking during a race. Generally, you should be able to set your car up with no choke and no brake in one of the faster lanes, using just the sensitivity to get it where you feel fairly comfortable, perhaps a bit on the edge, but still able to turn consistent laps. You then leave the sensitivity alone and use the choke to make minor adjustments to handle the tighter lanes, mostly to reduce the punch on the tighter corners. The brake should be used to control how much roll you get when you are off the throttle. 

Things to check/try: make sure all 4 tires are actually touching the track. Mark the bottom of the chassis with a silver Sharpie around the sides of the magnets. Then run a few laps and see if the chassis might be catching the rail in the corners when the car is swinging out. If it is, this would destabilize the car and tell you you are a tad too low. On the other hand, you may be able to go a tad bit lower in the rear by going to a .460 rim. Also try softer shoe springs. A sure fire way to figure out if your setup is off is to hand your car to Walt and ask him to take a few laps with your car.


----------



## Voxxer (Oct 25, 2003)

*MT/XT Wheel set*

Hi AFXtoo:

I have checked the guide pin and the car is not to low. I would say all in that class run a rear at .450 o.d. I looked at the lap and times from the last race at the same track and class and I have gained a total of 12 laps. Walt helped me on my controller with the break and coast. I was running no break. Since then ( about 2 races ago ) I have run and gained in every race and class since. Without running break, I know that my cars are too fast to control.

Body is square and all wheels touch and are flat.

Checking the car last night on a piece of buck test track, no touching, even with the back hook of the pick-ups shoes.

Voxxer


----------



## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

It sounds like you are making some big advances week over week so you are on the right track. Other things to try:

- The side to side free play in the front and rear axles. I know some people put a 0.003" or 0.005 spacer" on the crown gear to make it a little less sloppy. I try to keep the front with no more than 1/32" free play. 

- Also try another set of magnets, maybe a weaker set to give you a little more roll. 

- Different sized front tires, higher or lower

- Front tire stagger

- Restricting shoe travel

- Make sure the shoes are not binding on the rear hanger anywhere over their full range of travel.

- Smaller rear wheels but with the same overall height. Less of an effect with slip-ons, but going with a smaller hub and larger tire to achieve the same OD will give you a little more tire squish with the traction magnets.

- Scuffed tires versus sticker tires

- A little more rock in the body (be careful)

- The body - open vent 917 versus closed vent 917 versus lighted 917

On a routed track where you don't have joints and transitions to unsettle the car, try to think about the dynamics involved with getting the car through the corner smoothly and without deslotting. What are the forces that are trying to keep the car in the slot and rolling through the corner versus what are the forces that are trying to make the car continue in a straight direction or out of the slot? 

When evaluating changes, try to limit it to one change at a time at first, just to get a feel for the benefits/detriments associated with each change. There's no substitute for practice, practice, practice, testing, and tuning.


----------



## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

Just to be on the safe side I'm gonna ask....Is the Difalco a 15 band?


----------



## Voxxer (Oct 25, 2003)

*MT/XT Wheel set*

Hi AFXToo and Swamper Gene:

Thanks for the help!!!!!!!!



SwamperGene said:


> Just to be on the safe side I'm gonna ask....Is the Difalco a 15 band?


No, it's a 10 band.

I will work on one change at a time. The only problem is I have no track.

Thanks

Voxxer


----------



## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

Hmmm...while a 10 band is a good controller, it's going to be a problem if other guys in the field are using something that'll soften up the bottom end a little more. I'd bet you'd see an instant improvement with a 15 band. 10 bands and deep corner driving with a loose, fast car aren't going to go too well together.


----------



## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

The best upgrade path for the 10-band Difalco is the 30 band HD30 upgrade kit (DD-554 w/choke). I'd be very surprised if it got you back all those laps that the podium finishers are showing, but if you want the very best of what Difalco currently has to offer and a controller with a bit more versatility, or if you feel like you are left behind with your 10-band and don't want to fork over the $250+ for a brand new hatchet, the $56 upgrade is not a bad way to go. The racers in my area who have done the 30-band upgrade are very happy with it. I am generally happy with my 15-band Difalco but I've also tried J&S and Lucky Bob controllers that I think had a much smoother trigger action than my Difalco controller. 

Per my first post, try to get one of the top dogs to drive your car with your controller and see what they think may be ailing the car or you.


----------



## LeeRoy98 (Jul 8, 2005)

Voxxer said:


> Racing terms, I think it would be tight, you turn the wheel and the car does not turn.


Find what is legal in your group and restrict the pickup shoe travel. If a Magna/X-Traction is handling correctly and you overdrive into a corner it should swap ends (loose). The shoe travel is helping push it out of the slot to create the tight condition.
At least this has been my experience.

Gary
AKA LeeRoy98
www.marioncountyraceway.com


----------



## martybauer31 (Jan 27, 2004)

I'd agree with AFXToo about running with brakes on, try running in neutral and definitely ask Walt what he's doing as well. Running with your brakes on like you state is something you might want to do if your car is REALLY loose, but even then, I think would try to mellow it out with the sensitivity and spring tension in the shoes first.

Chances are, if Walt's like the rest of us, he'd rather beat you with his driving than just beating you with a superior car. 

Lot's of good advice already so I certainly won't repeat it, but definitely change only 1 thing at a time when you are experimenting!


----------



## Voxxer (Oct 25, 2003)

*MT/XT Wheel set*

Hi:

AFXToo check Private Message.

Voxxer


----------



## Voxxer (Oct 25, 2003)

Hi All:

Here is the lastest race result from Friday night. We did not run MT/XT, and I DID NOT change my controller from MT/XT to run T-Jets.



martybauer31 said:


> I'd agree with AFXToo about running with brakes on, try running in neutral and definitely ask Walt what he's doing as well. Running with your brakes on like you state is something you might want to do if your car is REALLY loose, but even then, I think would try to mellow it out with the sensitivity and spring tension in the shoes first.
> 
> Chances are, if Walt's like the rest of us, he'd rather beat you with his driving than just beating you with a superior car.
> 
> Lot's of good advice already so I certainly won't repeat it, but definitely change only 1 thing at a time when you are experimenting!


Front Range HO racing
Walt Pierce’s 4-lane MaxTrax - 70 feet each lane
February 19, 2010

STOCK class (3-minutes per lane)

PLACE RACER LAPS BEST LAP (sec)
1st Walt Pierce 82.35 8.249
2nd Alan Wolcott 79.48 8.476
3rd Geoff Campbell 79.25 8.584
4th Jon Soffa Voxxer 78.36 8.528
5th Brett Ginsburg 77.01 8.782
6th Jerry Readle 75.27 8.709
7th Jeff Leahy 73.02 9.055
8th Damon Dirksen 68.11 9.587
9th Pat Pansini 66.30 9.791
10th Steven Dirksen 64.65 10.182
11th Serge Arrestouilh 63.31 10.000
12th AJ Hoyt 62.00 9.453
13th Sheldon Brunn 61.47 10.054
14th Joe Furuli 61.08 10.450
15th Nick Pansini 57.43 11.201
16th Andy Smith 53.40 11.184


SPEC class (3-minutes per lane)

PLACE RACER LAPS BEST LAP (sec)
1st Walt Pierce 88.03 7.572
2nd AJ Hoyt 86.14 7.741
3rd Jon Soffa Voxxer 83.35 7.848
4th Jerry Readle 80.35 7.973
5th Geoff Campbell 79.66 8.356
6th Sheldon Brunn 79.48 7.819
7th Alan Wolcott 78.13 7.784
8th Damon Dirksen 77.40 7.833
9th Brett Ginsburg 75.41 7.627
10th Jeff Leahy 75.01 8.139
11th Serge Arrestouilh 70.45 8.814
12th Pat Pansini 69.48 8.559
13th Steven Dirksen 66.28 7.903
14th Joe Furuli 56.49 8.899


GT class (3-minutes per lane)

PLACE RACER LAPS BEST LAP (sec)
1st Walt Pierce 92.08 7.276
2nd AJ Hoyt 91.25 6.649 *
3rd Jon Soffa Voxxer 87.65 7.403
4th Geoff Campbell 85.25 7.161
4th Jeff Leahy 85.25 7.216
6th Jerry Readle 85.13 7.462
7th Alan Wolcott 82.36 7.536
8th Brett Ginsburg 80.38 7.736
9th Joe Furuli 79.50 8.018
10th Sheldon Brunn 78.36 7.458
11th Damon Dirksen 76.28 7.798
12th Serge Arrestouilh 76.47 6.970
13th Pat Pansini 72.08 8.072

* New Record(s) for lap time (all lanes) 

Classes are at www.slotcarmonster.com

My cars run great and fast, however, when testing my MT/XT after the races, I feel my cars just do not run good in the corners. The first change I made was different o-rings in the front without changing the size.


Voxxer


----------

