# Who here"NEVER" uses an airbrush?



## bizzarobrian (Oct 4, 2009)

And what are your beefs about using one?


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## bizzarobrian (Oct 4, 2009)

I have a couple of reasons.The maintenance needed to use one is a pain in my butt (I`m lazy. lol) & I also find that detail gets lost at times.


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## BadRonald (Jun 2, 2000)

I want to get one but I just don't know which one to get. I have heard that the Iwata HP-C is a good one though.


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## Bruce Bishop (Jan 17, 1999)

I don't have an airbrush. I much prefer hand-mixing and painting. I use water-based acrylics and for me brush cleanup is a couple of seconds of swishing in a cup of water, a quick wipe on a cloth, and I'm done. Same process whether I am putting things away, or switching from one color to another. I also don't have to worry about planning out painting a particular color as much as I would if I were airbrushing. It just seems like too much bother, especially when switching from one color to another for a second or two of painting.


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## wolfman66 (Feb 18, 2006)

I always used hand brushes and still use them even though have two airbrushes.


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## Zathros (Dec 21, 2000)

*I never used an airbrush ..not once*..*I've gotten very good with spray cans...and never felt the need to use one...I mix my own colors if needed, by hand...

Z
*


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## deadmanincfan (Mar 11, 2008)

I haven't been able to use an airbrush for several years now due to multiple relocations, although I miss it...I'd probably have to teach myself airbrush discipline all over again...


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## IanWilkinson (Apr 23, 2010)

Iv'e never had one.. never actualy had the urge to use one as ive been brushing for years.. but i would like to try one out to see if they are hard to use/clean etc..


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## mcdougall (Oct 28, 2007)

Nope...don't have one...never used one...
Mcdee


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## bizzarobrian (Oct 4, 2009)

IanWilkinson said:


> Iv'e never had one.. never actualy had the urge to use one as ive been brushing for years.. but i would like to try one out to see if they are hard to use/clean etc..


I had to use one at times when I was going to art college.Cleaning can be tricky because If there is even a speck of paint after your cleaning the brush spits.The needles can be easily damaged.


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## btbrush (Sep 20, 2010)

Hi, Devil's Advocate here,
I'd been building plastic kits for many years and stayed away from airbrushing mostly due to fear of the unknown. I started building some rather risque 1/6th females for some clients and there's just no other way to get the subtle shading and control I can get with an airbrush. I still have my original Badger 150 and it takes no more maintenence than you would bestowe on your favorite 10/0 liner brush.


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## PF Flyer (Jun 24, 2008)

Never used an airbrush for two reasons: 1) part of model-building for me involves nostalgia and I like using paint, brushes, and rattle cans (though I do use acryls) and 2) simple fear of the unknown. I wouldn't know what to buy or how to go about learning to use an airbrush, though I've followed the various threads on the topic with interest. I think with figure kits, it's entirely possible just to brush paint and get good results. Where there's a lot of rattle-can painting involved (sci-fi, cars) I can see the need for an air brush.


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## rkoenn (Dec 18, 2007)

I do about half airbrushing and half brush painting. The airbrush gives me finishes that I could not get with a brush and almost seems a requirement, if not a rattle can, for large surfaces. I use rattle can paint for things like spacecraft surfaces, car surfaces, anything that is large and smooth that I want to get a smooth, meticulous surface covering on. I even use things like Rustoleum or Kyrlon metallizer paints and such. The Saturn 5 I recently built was 90% done with these rattle can paints. But I do find I can get nuances and shading better with the airbrush then by hand. Now really good artists can do all that with a brush as Ian, Denis, and others have shown.

As for cleaning, you have to be very methodical about it and acrylics are worse to airbrush and get a clean nozzle with than lacquers or solvent based paints. I almost strictly use acrylics and when the nozzle gets gummed up it is time to remove it and give it a thorough cleaning even though I have been very careful to clean after each color. Sometimes I admit it is frustrating. And if I were to recommend an airbrush I would recommend the Iwata HP-CS. I have used a Paasche bottom feed, which I don't care too much for, and also have a Badger Velocity gravity feed which I used for very fine detailing but I like the Iwata best. It also has either a 0.05 or 0.035 nozzle which is nice.

Bob K.


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

I use an airbrush on some things, and prefer to use brushes or spray cans on others. It just depends.

There are some types of finishes that would be virtually impossible to do any other way than with an airbrush (things like soft edge Luftwaffe camouflage, fade finishes on cars, etc.). On the other hand, for figure type modelling you can do just find without one.

Im not sure how you would lose detail with an airbrush as the layers of paint are incredibly thin compared to even thinned out brush paint. And a layer from a spray can would be 100 times thicker.

Cleanup with an airbrush is not as bad as most people make it out to be. Quick clean ups as you go along and at the end of the day mean you don't have to tear the brush apart for a big thorough cleaning all the time. Just now and then do you need to take the main components apart. 

Sometimes people think Airbrushing takes more time but it takes much much less. If you know what you are doing and can work smoothly without fumbling around its a very quick, efficient way to put down not only a single layer of paint but multiple layers. I hand paint a lot of 1/72 airplane kits with a brush partly due to space limitations in my apartment, so it may take me a week to apply the two or three coats of each color one at a time with a brush. I can do the same paint job with three or four colors, using an airbrush, in an hour or two.

The natural metal undersides on Admiral Yamamoto's G4M "Betty" bomber would be impossible to do neatly with a brush. This was done wtih Alclad II lacquers.










However Airfix's Boulton Paul fighter was hand painted with a brush using Humbrol acrylic paints










I used mostly Tamiya spray cans to finish the Moebius/Aurora 2001 Moon Bus. Obviously all the detail painting was done with a brush but much of the interior was masked and spray painted.










The smooth finish on this small 1/72 Airfix Spitfire PR was airbrushed using enamel paints










These 1/72 French fighters had tight, hard edge, camo patterns that were easy to paint by hand










The subtle natural metal areas on this 1/72 Phantom were airbrushed with Alclad II Lacquers, then masked while the four color camouflage was applied with Tamiya spray cans


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## Mark McGovern (Apr 25, 1999)

I stand with the Boys From Florida on airbrushes. To begin with, there's no single tool or material that serves every purpose equally well. I have many different kinds of glue, putty, paints, and tools that I apply to different modeling situations.

If you're using spray cans, then you're already on your way to airbrushing. Hopefully you've come up with some way to contain and vent the fumes and overspray safely. Maybe you're spraying outside or you have a spray booth. If not, you're asking for lung diseases or possibly an explosion when your furnace or water heater kicks on.

The modeler who uses a spray can knows that he or she will be able to acheive the smooth finish on flat surfaces that Mssrs. Koenn and Nick mentioned. Even a figure modeler can get nice, flat applications of base colors through which details can be emphasized with wash and drybrush techniques. Airbrushes are simply refinements of spray cans.

Nobody is born knowing how to do everything. The foremost airbrush artist in the world had to learn how to use one. There are many perfectly good reasons not to use an airbrush, but "fear" shouldn't be one of them.


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## falcondesigns (Oct 30, 2002)

I started with an airbursh many years ago when the fear wore off,and never looked back.Model making is a skill and an art,if you want to take it to the next level,start airbrushing..........


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

My dad got me a Badger 200 Airbrush when i was about 8-9 along with a Tamiya KV tank and Panzer II. We airbrushed the Panzer II just a day or two after Christmas back then. Been using an airbrush ever since.

Actually if you can brush paint or spray paint well, you have more than enough skill to use an airbrush, which are really quite easy to work with minimal practice.


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## zike (Jan 3, 2009)

An airbrush is a tool.

If my mechanic said that he could build a complete Chevy small block using nothing but a Crescent wrench, my reaction would be, "OK, but is that something to be proud of?"

I don't find anything impressive about people not owning useful tools for their hobby or profession. I appreciate good brush painting, don't get me wrong. I just don't see why some people think it's good that they limit themselves to a minimum number of painting tools and, therefore, a minimum number of painting techniques and choices.

Having the broadest choice of tools and techniques in your painting arsenal is a good thing. I would take pride in being a good brush painter but I'd be a bit embarrassed to not own or use an airbrush as well.


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## miniature sun (May 1, 2005)

I think describing not owning an airbrush as 'embarrassing' is a little extreme as it's more likely to put less experienced modellers off.
It's a case of each to his own....I use an airbrush occasionally but tend to use spray cans more as they give a very robust finish which stands up well to my weathering techniques. I also handpaint all fine details and use drybrushing and washes extensively.
So don't feel pushed into using an airbrush as a great finish is possible without one...


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## RFluhr (Jun 26, 2008)

I have used them before but I don't have one right now and can't afford to buy one. I agree the cleaning and maintenance is a pain but there are some things that just don't look good unless you use an airbrush. If I had one I would use it.


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## wolfman66 (Feb 18, 2006)

One thing that did notice that is a A+ for the airbrush is skintones on female kits.No brush strokes nada when doing the female kit up with a airbrush.But downside with the airbrush to me is cleaning it.I hate breaking it all down and going threw the whole 9 yards in cleaing the damm thing.:freak:But other than that really enjoy it.


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## kit-junkie (Apr 8, 2005)

I tried to use my Badger 155 (dual action) on my Hodad kit. I had such plans. I was determined to get a good grasp on airbrushing. What happened? I failed at it and went back to my "old" ways. I honestly don't need the aggravation of mixing paint and cleaning the airbrush. I spent as much time on the maintenance and mixing as I did on the kit. That's no fun for me... I get good enough results, on figures, without an airbrush.

I have two airbrushes: a Badger model 200 and the 155 Anthem. I'm almost ready to get rid of the Anthem, as I will probably never practice enough with it. The model 200 is a single action that is perfect for base coating or spraying finishes on cars and such. It's still a pain in the butt to maintain, if you ask me.


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## walsing (Aug 22, 2010)

I own two airbrushes but don't use them. If I can do the job without them its less trouble than mixing, adjusting and cleaning them up.


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## zike (Jan 3, 2009)

kit-junkie said:


> I tried to use my Badger 155 (dual action) on my Hodad kit. I had such plans. I was determined to get a good grasp on airbrushing. What happened? I failed at it and went back to my "old" ways.


So you tried to use your airbrush on a kit, you failed, and you quit.

That's the spirit.


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

zike said:


> So you tried to use your airbrush on a kit, you failed, and you quit.
> 
> That's the spirit.


They take some practice but not much. And you dont have to do these mega cleanings that people keep talking about. I flush my airbrush out with lacquer thinner in between colors and give it a good flush when done. Now and then I break down the tip and soak it in thinner a while, clean out any built up paint with an old paint brush, and put it back on. thats about it.


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## machgo (Feb 10, 2010)

I love using an airbrush, but I am no where near a master. Cleaning for me is quite simple. Blow thinner of choice--currently lacquer thinner, as I'm trying Mr. Hobby and Gaia paints--through brush, remove needle, wipe down, reinsert needle. Clean jar/cup as well.

At least some airbrushes can be soaked in Super Clean or similar cleaners for a very thorough cleaning also. I did this with a low end Paasche and it came out like brand new.

I recently got a Paasche Talon with 3 tips, it was only 100 bucks delivered. I'll tell you, in the hands of someone with talent (not me, yet anyway, but sometimes I get lucky) it can really do some nice work. Of course that's true of a brush too.


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## miniature sun (May 1, 2005)

I agree that the cleaning is not that big a deal....just shoot some thinners through after each session and occasionally strip/clean/reassemble.
One good investment is an ultrasonic jewellery cleaner. I picked one up for about £15 about two years ago. You put the parts in a little tray and leave immersed in water with a few drops of detergent while the machine does it's work.
This one isn't the same as mine but similar....

http://www.amazon.com/CD-2800-Ultrasonic-Jewelry-Eyeglass-Cleaner/dp/B001DKDAVW


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## TAY666 (Jan 8, 2000)

Can't say that I 'never' use an airbrush.
I have an old Testor's brush that came with a can of air, that I bought at K-mart back in the early 90's.
It is now connected to an air tank instead of canned air.
I use it for basecoats, as that is all it's good for.
Has all the subtlety of a Wagner power painter 

There are several reasons why I don't really airbrush.
No money for a good brush.
No money for a compressor.
I do 95% of my work in my living room. I don't have an actual bench, or a workroom.
I drag the kits down to the basement to prime, basecoat, or clearcoat.
Can't set up a workshop down there, as I can't even stand completely upright.
And it also has dampness / moisture issues.

Someday I will have the money for the tools and the ability to set up a dedicated space and then I will get into airbrushing.

But until then, I am perfectly happy sitting in the middle of my living room floor (in front of the TV) working on kits. Just like I did when I was a kid.


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## zike (Jan 3, 2009)

It always blows my mind when I hear modelers say how they tried to airbrush a kit but it didn't work out for some reason so they just stick with brush painting.

I thought this was the hobby of patience, learning and skill-building. We make fun of video gamers because they need instant gratification.

I built my first kit around 1964. Started airbrushing around 1974. Won my first contest in 2009. So after 45 years of building and 35 years of airbrushing, I finally got good at it.

I can't imagine quitting after my first failure or my my 50th failure. I built a couple of hundred glue-bombs with bad paint jobs before the end of the disco era. I've never succeeded at anything the first time around. I failed my first drivers test (dang parallel parking) but didn't quit driving. I had a crush on a girl in highschool who refused to go out with me...she finally agreed to a date when were 39 years old.

Giving up airbrushing after one kit? C'mon.


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## mrmurph (Nov 21, 2007)

I've never used an air brush because a) I don't know how b) I can't afford one c) I'm reasonably happy with my traditional brush results.


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## Cro-Magnon Man (Jun 11, 2001)

I have an airbrush, never use it, and much prefer the effects that can be achieved with brushes etc.


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## TRENDON (May 24, 2000)

I've NEVER used an airbrush on any of my kits.
http://members.cox.net/houseofdracula/


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## HabuHunter32 (Aug 22, 2009)

The only time I use my airbrush is for military camo on aircraft and armor. I still can't seem to get the knack for shading on human figures. When I get my Elvira kit I'll try again.

I also use spray cans for base coats of large subjects be it Sci-Fi or military.

On armor and military aircraft soft edge camo is a piece of cake with an airbrush. For hard line camo I still use the airbrush and silly putty to mask the colors.

For non human figures I prefer brush painting with acrylic's. 

I like the airbrush but I wish I was more confident in my abilities on human figures. I do need a new compressor though. My old one is about 20 years old and the darn thing is so loud it scares the heck out of the dog!

The 2 things I would love to get replaced this year are my compressor and my digital camera. The camera was given to my daughter when her's was stolen.  My wife has hinted that santa may bring me a new compressor this year. She also hates my old one!

I'll buy a new digital camera at some point. It's just that there are so many great kits coming out right now that it's just not in the budget! Lol. I have to save for my 1/350 Starship Enterprise and big 8 window Seaview! Yes the boss (wife) has me on a hobby budjet! Lol! :wave:


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## Seaview (Feb 18, 2004)

Add me to the list of those who doesn't use an airbrush. Over the years, I've gotten to be very adept at using rattlecans for large areas, bottle paint brushing for detail areas, and dry brushing for weathering.
And like Habu, I'm saving up for the big NCC-1701, and the big USOS Seaview. :thumbsup:


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## Mudkicker (Jan 14, 2008)

I have a Badger that I tried many times. I had "decent" results, and very, very bad results. Mostly water spitting out of it when I was just about done with the flesh on a female kit. I tried different compressors, filters, still had the problem. Like Tay666, I don't have a dedicated area for spraying. I paint in my living room. And also have a damp cellar not good to make a model area for. Perhaps once the kids are gone and I have a spare room or 2 it will be possible. Not really in a hurry to get them out of the house though. 

I do think they are great and necessary for good flesh tones. Not using one is the reason I stay away from girl kits. And I do have a few I would like to do. The ones I used a hand brush on just don't look right.


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## Fozzie (May 25, 2009)

I use rattle cans 95% of the time, my airbrush when the rattle cans won't cut it (mainly because the color I need is unavailable), and brushes only when they are the only option.

Time and cleanup are the main reasons I don't use my airbrush much. It simply takes much less time and effort to use a rattle can and--for MOST things I do--the results are similar.


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## USS Atlantis (Feb 23, 2008)

For large paint jobs, I use the Airbrush more than a rattlecan - the wife is asthmatic and the propellents in the cans lock up her lungs - the airbrushed colors not so much

BUT you have to find what works for you - for me, the need to keep my wife breathing properly is why I refrain as much as possible from rattle-cans and why I'm willing to go through the trouble of cleaning the Badger


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## iriseye (Sep 21, 2010)

Read all the posts here and in other forums on this topic.

I've never used an airbrush mainly because I've never tried. I had always hoped someone would point me in the right direction and say, "Buy this airbrush, this compressor and you can achieve the same texture for colors as you do from rattle cans." 

I use rattle cans for base coats, and various thickness of brush coats of colors for effect. I cannot duplicate the effect of spray cans with a brush. 

I just wish I knew how to use a airbrush.


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## TAY666 (Jan 8, 2000)

zike said:


> It always blows my mind when I hear modelers say how they tried to airbrush a kit but it didn't work out for some reason so they just stick with brush painting.
> 
> I thought this was the hobby of patience, learning and skill-building.


It is also a hobby for enjoyment.
So, if you aren't enjoying what you are doing, you aren't going to keep doing it.
Some people just aren't suited working with an airbrush.
Just like some people don't like to do prep work.
And others don't like painting with a hand brush.

If they are happy with the way they do things. And satisfied with their results.
Then why would they want to try to "reinvent the wheel" when it comes to how they do things?


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## nautilusnut (Jul 9, 2008)

I was a professional airbrush artist painting shirts on the beach and at resorts for 15 years, before moving into professional illustration in the advertising field.

I learned by buying an airbrush, reading books and LOTS of practice. At that time there were no instructional videos, schools, and darn few people that wanted to show you anything as it just "added to the competition."

Almost on a daily basis people would watch me painting and say, I've tried airbrushing and gave up because I couldn't do anything with it. I usually found out that they had given up after one session.

QUESTION- DO YOU THINK YOU COULD PLAY THE VIOLIN AFTER ONE AFTERNOON? Of course not- takes practice! Be prepared to spend some time learning to be proficient with the airbrush. Even a few hours with one will result in a better basic paint job than hand-brushing. No brush marks, ridges, the paint is thinner and won't block details, faster drying, cheaper paint costs (over buying endless rattlecans) PROFESSIONALS USE AN AIRBRUSH FOR THESE REASONS! 

I love seeing these so-called "Professional kitbuilders" on ebay selling some built-up kit and touting "all hand painted- no airbrushing" as if that were a virtue. Most of these results are LAUGHABLE.

I still do alot of hand painting on large figure kits and busts, but an airbrush makes large areas of skin and expanses of plastic and resin SOOO much easier and realistic. 

Cleaning is no big problem- JUST DO IT IMMEDIATELY AND OFTEN. Spray cleaner through the brush after each color and don't lay the brush down and go to lunch before you clean. At the end of your painting session, clean the airbrush completely by removing the needle, wiping it a few times, flushing everything completely- TAKES 5 MINUTES MAX! Do this EVERYTIME and you won't have stuck needles and clogged paint tubes.

Spray cans are fine for large models- i.e.- Big Moebius Seaview, etc.
But the coats are thicker, paint build-up is faster, and weathering effects and subtle shading near impossible. You also need to mask more carefully as the spray is not nearly as controlled.

As for waiting for some one to TELL you what airbrush to buy-DON'T. Any major brand is quite good and will give similar results. Think more about part replacement costs and availability. An incredible German made airbrush whose parts costs are enormous to replace and have to be shipped overseas is ridiculous. Buy a good airbrush from the local hobbyshop that sells extra needles and tips and you will get equal results with less headache. My brush of choice for modeling is the Passche V-L3. American-made, STURDY, parts are readily available and in-expensive, and can draw a line as thin as the IWATA HBC (which I also own) at less half the cost. The main difference is the hand that wields it! 

Get a decent compressor with moisture trap and pressure gauge. I use a mid-sized one from SEARS- that way I can blow up my car tires and operate an air tool. They are only a few dollars more than a good small hobby unit and much more versatile. (They run on sale all the time)

ONE THING IS INDISPUTABLE- THE BEST PRO-MODELERS IN THE WORLD USE AN AIRBRUSH BECAUSE THE RESULTS ARE BETTER.


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## Seaview (Feb 18, 2004)

Bottom line; whatever works best for YOU, use what suits YOU best and enjoy YOUR hobby. :hat:


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## zike (Jan 3, 2009)

nautilusnut said:


> I love seeing these so-called "Professional kitbuilders" on ebay selling some built-up kit and touting "all hand painted- no airbrushing" as if that were a virtue. Most of these results are LAUGHABLE.



People touting their brush painted models often create an awkward situation.

I don't know how many times I've heard, "All of my models are brush painted and look at how they turned out". And I've looked at them and thought they looked just OK at best. But I've never seen brush painted models that wouldn't have looked just a bit better if the modeler had used a broader range of painting tools including an airbrush.

But you can't just come out and say that. If a guy believes that his brush painted models are as good as anything, I don't want to be the one to say, "Yeah, but they could be better".

So, when I'm confronted with a brush only painter who thinks his limited painting technique is doing the job, I just say, "Uh, nice work".


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## starlord (Mar 30, 2011)

I've never had one. most of the places I've lived had no place to set one up. so I've always painted by hand. one time when I fist built by BSG model I did use small cans of spray paint and then I had to do it outside of my home.


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## AJ-1701 (May 10, 2008)

I use both now, I've found that as my own ability has grown so has my take on different techniques and tools. I too had a touch of fear with using an airbrush as well as using chalks and pastels. I really only ever used one off and on for putting on the occasional base coat, but never drew up the nerve to go further than that till the last couple of years. I don't think personaly I could have got the look on my 1701 refit with out it. Infact one judge at the QMHE last year though that all the azteking on it were the new decals. 

As for them taking longer because of masking, cleaning, planning etc I've never found that an issue, as it compensates the speed I can get the film build on. I only use acrylics through mine because I don't like the whole flammable and health issue with enamels. I was never a big fan of rattle cans, fumey, to much effort for containing the over spray etc. Now they are used just to prime and apply light blocking the inside of a build for lighting.

For small stuff I still and proberbly will always use just a brush but to be honest my two ab's are a part of my modeling as is the use of chalks, pastels and inks.

Cheers,

Alec.


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## PF Flyer (Jun 24, 2008)

Arrogance is arrogance whether it originates from a palette or an air compressor. Talented people with experience building models get good results. Period. I can name a dozen people on this board, some of whom have responded to this thread, who get prize-winning or, if you prefer, "professional" results using either or both techniques. And I don't think I've ever heard a single one of them argue that one technique is better or that someone else's work is "laughable" or creates an "awkward situation" because they work in a different way. Since perfection is about the only standard in modeling, everyone's work falls short of the mark and therefore can be improved. This began as an interesting discussion of who uses what and why. It might even convince me to try something new. But I can't see how the thread is improved or the discussion advanced by someone claiming superiority and disparaging others solely on the basis of whether they use an airbrush. It's the carpenter, not his tools.


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## nautilusnut (Jul 9, 2008)

PF Flyer,

It's true a poor carpenter blames his tools. I did not mean to sound arrogant, or seems to put down anyone who brush paints his models. As stated in my post, I do alot of brush painting on my figures and often I paint a bust entirely by hand. (and I've won awards with these) My point was and still is- an airbrush is just another tool in your modeling arsenal and you should not be afraid to use one nor expect to be an expert right off the bat. Some wrote in to say they were afraid to use an airbrush or didn't know what to buy- my answer was meant for them. With some practice the uncomfortable feeling will pass, and the results will justify the means. The clean up time is not really an issue, and the time saved painting more than makes up for it. (A 30 minute job by hand becomes a 5-minute airbrush job.)

As for those "pros" who hand-paint everything, more power to you- just don't imply that the customer is getting some sort of superior product because of it. Of course there are bad air brush jobs on model kits too. The talent is up to the builder.
An airbrush won't necessarily improve your work, but it will give you a superior finish faster, and allow shading and blending techniques that are almost impossible through other means.


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## Dr. Brad (Oct 5, 1999)

On my dinosaur models, I use both brushes and airbrushes, but I wish I knew how to make better use of brushes! Some of you guys amaze me with that you can do with a brush on your figure kits!


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## TAY666 (Jan 8, 2000)

nautilusnut said:


> As for those "pros" who hand-paint everything, more power to you- just don't imply that the customer is getting some sort of superior product because of it. Of course there are bad air brush jobs on model kits too. The talent is up to the builder.


I was just thinking that.
I can't count the number of times I have rolled my eyes at ebay auctions stating "pro-paint, airbrushed".
They think because they made a few passes with an airbrush that they can demand a premium on the kit.

You bring up a lot of good points and advice.
But you also assume that all modelers are looking for perfection. 
Most aren't. They are looking for satisfaction.
As long as they are happy with the results that is all that matters.
And even if they are looking for perfection, there is no reason to assume that their idea of perfection matches your idea of perfection.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Glad you have a local hobby shop to get stuff at.
No such animal around here.
Closest thing we have is an RC place about 50 miles away.
Basically, if they don't sell it at Kmart, Home Depot, or JoAnne Fabric, then there is no where local to get it.

For the record, I am not against ABs. And I look forward to when I can get one and play with it until I get decent with it.
But for now, that is just a dream. No cash for a brush, no cash for a compressor (and a Sears won't cut it as my wife would have a fit every time I fired it up, it's gonna have to be one of those super quiet ones). And no place to set up.
I'm hoping for some time in 2013 at this point.
Maybe then I will be able to afford to take the Kitbuilder's class and get all the equipment all at once.

Maybe by then I will have somewhat mastered the tools I am currently using before I work in some more. Because I know I still have a long way to go with the hand brushes and pastels right now. Haven't even dipped my toe in the oil painting waters yet, and am still finding some new tricks with water colors.
So many tools and so little time and money.


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## Zombie_61 (Apr 21, 2004)

I've never even _held_ an airbrush, let alone used one. I have nothing against them, I just haven't gotten around to getting one yet because a) I don't know which one to get, and every modeler I've talked to seems to have a completely different opinion on which make/model/type is "best", b) the same goes for compressors, and c) I can't really afford an airbrush/compressor setup right now.


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## razorwyre1 (Jan 28, 2004)

Mark McGovern said:


> [Nobody is born knowing how to do everything. The foremost airbrush artist in the world had to learn how to use one. There are many perfectly good reasons not to use an airbrush, but "fear" shouldn't be one of them.


the wisest thing said in this entire thread. 
the airbrush is one tool among many, no more, no less. good for some things, bad for others.
i used to teach airbrushing at my local micheals, and i understand that some people are temperamentally predisposed to using an airbrush, and that others arent. fine, but those that arent can learn to use it with patience.
i dont understand the arrogance of the attitude "i dont use an airbrush and im damned proud of that fact". why?
one thing that i am 100% sure of is that most people start out with too complex of an airbrush. beginners should start with a single action, external mix airbrush; extremely easy to use, extremely easy to clean, very simple to get right. 
my buddy tom just took a silver at wonderfest for a bust that he did entirely with hand-brushing, no airbrush involved, but its not because he doesnt know how to airbrush, or because he turns up his nose at the technique. he did it that way because it was a challenge, and because he was more comfortable doing it that way. so it is possible to get the same (or very similar) results without an airbrush, but often its more difficult and more time consuming. 
so if you dont like to use an airbrush, try a single action external mix model. if you still dont like it, fine, if you can get the same effects without using one, more power to you, but i think feeling pride in not knowing how to do something is a little strange.


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## PF Flyer (Jun 24, 2008)

I would add that excessive pride in KNOWING how to do something is equally strange. I'm a teacher by trade and one of the easiest traps to fall into in that profession is being proud of knowing more than your students--even though you've had far more experience and greater opportunities for study. There's more than a whiff of that in some of these posts from both brushers and sprayers; indeed we often get it from the professionals who are "in the business" on this and other forums--when they put down the inexperienced for asking (for example) why there's no kit of thus and such or expressing an honest, but naive opinion on Wonderfest. Strange, since the pros here rely on folks like us to keep them in business. I just don't see how that sort of attitude advances the discussion or helps the hobby--one of the reasons I so admire the guys at Atlantis who tend to encourage, not discourage, questions and dialogue (and they appear to have some fun in the process.)

Now, I for one DO appreciate the advice about which airbrush and compressors to try. Truth be told, I've been wanting to learn to use one for a while now in part because it looks like fun. But I am comfortable with a brush and rattle can so learning something new (and dropping the bucks) can be formidable obstacles--especially since I, like a lot of modelers, have to grab an hour here and there for practice and for building kits. But in the end, Mark and Razorwyre are correct, you've got to get in the water before you can swim. And that's what will likely move me off the dime.


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

I think knowing how to use one is a huge help even if you never use it again. Ive been building and painting models for nearly 40 years now. I just like to know how different tools perform. I like to know their limitations and advantages. It may be that I use a brush only on one particular model, spray cans on a second, an airbrush on the third, and maybe a mix of all on the fourth kit.

This 1/72 Messerschmitt 262 is such an example...










The model was primed with a Tamiya spray can. The light blue underside colors were airbrushed in Testors Model Master enamels because the shade I wanted was not available in a spray can, and it was much quicker and simpler to airbrush it than spend a day or two hand painting the solid light color. The upper surface camouflage colors were hand painted using Poly Scale acrylics. Luftwaffe mottled camouflage is extremely difficult/nearly impossible to render with a paint brush so the mottle spots were airbrushed. 

One comment I always heard when I was selling brushes is that the modeller wanted to buy a cheap cheap starter brush to learn how to use it, then buy a nice set up later. Thats basically dooming the guy to total failure. Cheap brushes just dont work, the guy will be frustrated, not get what he wants out of the cheap set up, and will not buy a good one later. The price difference between a cheap brush and a decent name brand starter brush is minimal and a cheap brush still needs a good air supply, so you arent saving money there. I would say $130 will get you something like a Paasche H brush and a decent little shop compressor. Thats really just about the price of three 1/35 tanks, less than one 1/32 airplane, the price of one or two large resin figures, etc.


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## Tim Casey (Dec 4, 2004)

I've got one sitting in my room. I tried using it once. Now it just sits there and dares me to make another attempt. Maybe I'll tackle the beast this summer.


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## zike (Jan 3, 2009)

Tim Casey said:


> I've got one sitting in my room. I tried using it once.


Again, it just amazes me how many times I hear a modeler say he tried an airbrush ONCE.

I've never been good at anything that I tried just once.

I wonder what all of the experienced brush painters would say if you asked them about their brush painting skills?


"Hey, Bob, you're really good with that paint brush. Have you always been a good brush painter?"

"No. It took ten years of practice and dozens of models for me to become a proficient brush painter."

"So, Bob, do you also use an airbrush?"

"Oh, no. I tried an airbrush on a model ONCE but I didn't do a very good job so I quit using it."


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## nautilusnut (Jul 9, 2008)

People used to always say to me, "I wish I could paint like that." To which my reply was, "Actually, you probably could if you had as much practice as I've had." I made it look easy because I did it day after day.

That said, its not that hard to become proficient with a little practice. Maybe not a MASTER, but proficient. (and I'm not claiming to be a MASTER)

Actually, there is not a local "Hobby Shop" here. We do have a tool store- HARBOR FREIGHT which sells an off-brand of airbrush which works very nicely.

For those without a store near by the solution is your mailbox or computer.
I recommend:

http://www.bearair.com/

You will find very friendly people used to dealing with questions concerning airbrushes and will honestly help you- just tell them your needs and ask for recommendations.

Airbrushes are kinda like cars- both the Lotus and Chevy will get you there, the Lotus just looks better and costs more. 

I have owned about 4 different brands of airbrush and worked with more- (that was my living as an illustrator) The brand I recommend for modelers, a Passche VL-3, is STURDY, easy to clean and maintain, and parts are inexpensive to replace. It can go head to head in detail with airbrushes costing far more. I used to work at a beach shop, and the conditions were less than ideal. Plenty of times a brush would get dropped or knocked to the floor. (We often worked with a dozen, all with different colors) In these situations an Iwata cost too much to maintain, with the tip alone costing 20.00- the Passche was about 4.00 Only a fine artist could appreciate the difference in the results of the two, most of us don't need to split hairs that fine. What's more, the VL can be converted into a VL-1, or VL-5 (able to handle different paints) with a simple change of needles and tips. The body is the same on all three. 

My point is, you will get recommendations on all brands- most any brand name airbrush will do a good job with modeling. You don't need the best, most expensive toy out there- just a little advice, and the will to make a little commitment to some practice. (try it on an old kit- it can be fun.) 

Not- bragging, just an example- the attached illustration (11x17) was done with a 54.00 Passche VL-3.


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## Disco58 (Apr 10, 2011)

nautilusnut said:


> Not- bragging, just an example- the attached illustration (11x17) was done with a 54.00 Passche VL-3.


That deserves a a WOW! The clouds are truly amazing -- are they also airbrushed? I wish I could paint like that.... Sorry, couldn't resist.


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## OKCmike (Aug 22, 2010)

Well, this thread makes for some interesting reading. When I decided to get back into modeling a couple years ago and discovered garage model kits, first thing I did was order an Iwata Eclipse and Iwata HP-C plus as I've always been interested in learning to airbrush. For me the real fun is in the journey learning to use one. Yeah, at first I was really frustrated, it seemed hard just learning how to control the thing and then ya have the clogging and the dry tip etc. At first, thought maybe I had made a mistake, these things are inherently evil and I just blew a couple hundred dollars on'em. lol. Once you learn what paint to thinner ratios to use and stop the clogging the enjoyment starts, dry tip ain't no big deal and just part of the process using the A.B. 
I love the way artists can blend and get those soft shades of pastel like color with an airbrush and I just don't think you can get that with hand brushing. Heck, I can't do it with an airbrush myself as yet, but I've only painted a dozen or so kits. However, I really do enjoy painting with it now and like I said before, learning the technique is the fun part and I sometimes actually get good results which will happen more as I practice and paint more figures. 
I do plan on trying some new hand brushing techniques using artist oil paints eventually, like that David Metzner guy. Blows me away with what he can do using a hand brush and oils. Ain't no airbrush artist got anything on him, at least when it comes to painting figure models.


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## kit-junkie (Apr 8, 2005)

zike said:


> So, when I'm confronted with a brush only painter who thinks his limited painting technique is doing the job, I just say, "Uh, nice work".


That sounds SO elitist, to me. Give a monkey a crayon or an airbrush and you'll get the same results.  --you "get it" right?

I've seen far too many brush painted masterpieces to listen to drivel like this.

I have two airbrushes. I've used the single action model several times. I don't really CARE to spend the a lot of time to get good with the dual action model.


I get tired of cleaning the damned thing
I get tired of mixing paint for it.
I don't care enough about it to keep bothering

I'll work whichever way I enjoy most. :wave:


P.S. I'm sure there are brush painters out there who can put a lot of airbrush work to shame. [*cough* McGee *cough*]


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## TAY666 (Jan 8, 2000)

razorwyre1 said:


> i dont understand the arrogance of the attitude "i dont use an airbrush and im damned proud of that fact". why?


Well, I know from talking to some modelers, that they actually consider using an airbrush akin to cheating. Taking a shortcut. And not really painting.
Not saying they are right. Just that that is their opinion.



> i used to teach airbrushing at my local micheals, and i understand that some people are temperamentally predisposed to using an airbrush, and that others arent. fine, but those that arent can learn to use it with patience.


Or people like me, who aren't even predisposed painting at all.
Seriously, I used to *hate* painting.
It used to be something I had to do, in order to finish the kit.
For me, the building is the pure joy of the hobby.
Over the years thanks to shear will, determination, and a lot of time spent doing it.
I've gotten decent at painting. I have no natural talent for it.
My mind is more analytical, and doesn't deal with the abstracts of painting very well.
But it's getting there.
If you set your mind to it, and practice enough, you can learn just about anything.


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## iriseye (Sep 21, 2010)

> Well, this thread makes for some interesting reading.


This might be an understatement.



> Glad you have a local hobby shop to get stuff at.
> No such animal around here.
> Closest thing we have is an RC place about 50 miles away.


I have the same issue. The nearest LHS is about 50 miles away and deal strictly with model railroading. 



> One comment I always heard when I was selling brushes is that the modeller wanted to buy a cheap cheap starter brush to learn how to use it, then buy a nice set up later. Thats basically dooming the guy to total failure. Cheap brushes just dont work, the guy will be frustrated, not get what he wants out of the cheap set up, and will not buy a good one later.


This may be the best advice on this topic yet.



> The brand I recommend for modelers, a Passche VL-3, is STURDY, easy to clean and maintain, and parts are inexpensive to replace.


I'm leaning this way. Comments?



> I've never been good at anything that I tried just once.


Me neither.

Let me just thank everyone for their comments and opinions, and even though I didn't start this thread, it is VERY interesting reading.


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## Desslock (Mar 5, 2011)

Zombie_61 said:


> I've never even _held_ an airbrush, let alone used one. I have nothing against them, I just haven't gotten around to getting one yet because a) I don't know which one to get, and every modeler I've talked to seems to have a completely different opinion on which make/model/type is "best", b) the same goes for compressors,....


Yeah, I'm not even certain what an airbrush looks like - I just got back in the hobby and find them intimidating, although I'd like to learn how to paint with one. My (c) is that I also live in a condo, so I don't know how practical an airbrush is because of sound/space/mess? 

But I'd definitely appreciate some advice/answers to the questions above. All I really know is brush painting with enamel Humbrol/Testor paint like I grew up with modeling. I need to learn everything - from use of acrylics, to airbrushing, to washes, to better drybrushing, paint-mixing, etc. It's fun to learn though.


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## USS Atlantis (Feb 23, 2008)

Desslock said:


> Yeah, I'm not even certain what an airbrush looks like - I just got back in the hobby and find them intimidating, although I'd like to learn how to paint with one. My (c) is that I also live in a condo, so I don't know how practical an airbrush is because of sound/space/mess?


Condo/Apartment setup

1) An airbrush booth with filter and fan that can duct out a window - if you have any carpentry skills - or know someone who has - you can build one relatively cheaply

2) Tanked/canned air - air cans are expensive in the long run, better to get a portable tank 5 Gallon or 7 gallon then just hop down the gas station every so often for a fill

3) A good starter airbrush - single action/external mix is the easiest to learn with - The Paasche stated earlier is good as is the one I still use - a Badger 200

4) Hoses, connectors and a filter/water trap complete the setup



Desslock said:


> But I'd definitely appreciate some advice/answers to the questions above. All I really know is brush painting with enamel Humbrol/Testor paint like I grew up with modeling. I need to learn everything - from use of acrylics, to airbrushing, to washes, to better drybrushing, paint-mixing, etc. It's fun to learn though.


I'm still learning new things/techniques every time I log in - the important thing though is to have fun


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## Tim Casey (Dec 4, 2004)

zike said:


> Again, it just amazes me how many times I hear a modeler say he tried an airbrush ONCE.
> 
> I've never been good at anything that I tried just once.


Okay, you've shamed me into it - I PROMISE to try it again this summer!


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## dklange (Apr 25, 2009)

I've been using an airbrush since 1974, back in my college days... first time I saw one I was captivated and couldn't wait to get my hands on it... I've owned 7 or 8 over the years... I really like the Iwata High Performance and Custom Micron series, I also use a Badger 150 alot... there's definitely a learning curve... but it's certainly worth the time and effort (if one is interested)... with that said... I've been watching the Dave Fisher videos again and am really amazed and interested in his use of chalk pastels... anyone here ever use that method?? They give some really cool results... - Denis


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## OKCmike (Aug 22, 2010)

Hey dk,
I've been using them since I first started building again, a couple years now. At first I was using them because I didn't have good control with the airbrush as yet. I can shade with the airbrush now but still use pastels alot just for the ease of use and they do have very similar effects as long as ya don't get to heavy with them. Put the color on to heavy and it tends to look like dirt. Also some lighten or darken after clear coating, depending on brand of chalk you use. They're easy to work with though, if you don't like or goof up you can just wipe it off with water and cue tip (if you're using acrylic's of course) and try again. Give'em a try, they're fun to work with.


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## razorwyre1 (Jan 28, 2004)

iriseye said:


> > The brand I recommend for modelers, a Passche VL-3, is STURDY, easy to clean and maintain, and parts are inexpensive to replace.
> 
> 
> I'm leaning this way. Comments?



id go with the paasche h (get the set with all 3 tip sizes 1,3 and 5). the vl is a double action internal mix. the h is a much simpler mechanism, but still capable of doing good work.
some say a single action airbrush is limited. the shirt in the photo was done with the paasche h.








kit-junky, your single action, the badger 200, is an internal mix. give an external mix airbrush a try (badger 350, paasche h). far easier to maintain and clean.


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

Now myself I love the Badger 200 but thats what I grew up using. But the Paasche H is virtually fool proof and gives good results unless you are into painting very small intricate patterns free hand. The Paasche VL is not bad either. One nice thing with the VL is you can find some boxed sets for $100 or so with a ton of tips, needles, jars, color cup, heavy duty hose, etc. The H usually comes kinda bare bones and you will double the price buying all the extra parts to flesh it out.

I was never a huge fan of the Badger 350... for the money I think the similar Paasche H is at least a better feeling brush.

None of these brushes, H, VL, 200 and 350 will break the bank either. They are really only the cost of one or two average sized kits.


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## pugknows (May 28, 2002)

Tried one about 20 years ago and didn't like the clean up and mixing, drybrushing is just so quick and easy but I do plan to try the air bush some day. 
Rob
Monster Model Review
http://monstermodelreview.com/


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## kit-junkie (Apr 8, 2005)

razorwyre1 said:


> kit-junky, your single action, the badger 200, is an internal mix. give an external mix airbrush a try (badger 350, paasche h). far easier to maintain and clean.


I should. I just figured they are all the same, as far as cleaning goes.

Thanks for the info.


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## razorwyre1 (Jan 28, 2004)

kit-junkie said:


> I should. I just figured they are all the same, as far as cleaning goes.
> 
> Thanks for the info.


oh no, theres a huge difference in design. theyre really apples and oranges. 
take a look:








with the badger 200, the paint and air mix together inside the airbrush. in the paasche h above (or badger 350) the mix happens at the tip, outside the airbrush. there are far fewer parts that the paint passes through, and those are much more accessible. 
i design latex halloween masks. the paint that i use has loads of latex in it, and that latex dries into solid rubber. while that sort of stuff can be sprayed through a double action airbrush, its really tempting fate. a clog can be a nightmare. thats why i started to use the single action: if you get a bit of rubber in there, 15 seconds and one pipe cleaner later you are spraying again.
so give one a try. it takes a lot of frustration out of airbrushing.


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## FLKitbuilder (Apr 10, 2011)

You can add my name to the "pro" side of airbrush use. I love them. Yes, they are a pain to clean, can clog, and have a relatively steep learning curve, at least the double action ones.

That said, "to each his own." Anyone that has seen Phil Sera's work before he started using an airbrush can attest that a great modeler can get awesome results without an airbrush. His "Devilman" done entirely with washes over a 6 month period was "Most Amazing Figure" in 2003. However, what Phil didn't mention is that to get those results took many, many washes of various consistencies. So, yes, you can get similar results without an airbrush, just not as quickly or easily. 

But, I have to add that this thread was NOT addressed to us airbrush users. It was addressed to those who DON'T use one. The purpose was to initiate a discussion among those people, not to start a debate about the pros and cons between users and non-users. 

Invariably, in those discussions, the charges of "elitism" get leveled at airbrush users because most of us feel is it a superior tool for certain things than a brush. And, judging from the number of people who responded that they either tried it and weren't successful or are too intimidated to try it, it's pretty obvious that most people consider it a more sophisticated tool with a steep learning curve. Of course, the same can be said of a PC, IPhone, or even a digital rice cooker. You want to learn how to use a tool, you have to LEARN how to use that tool. And the more sophisticated the tool, the more practice is needed. 

I've been playing guitar for 45+ years. For the first 5, I sucked to be perfectly honest. I had no teacher and was learning from books and "Play Guitar with the Ventures" records, and trying to copy songs off the record. But I got good eventually. Now, with a little practice, I can play just about any rock song I want. In my "old age" I've started taking up classical music, an entirely different form requiring a different set of skills, sight reading in particular. Right now, I suck. But 5 years from now, should I live so long, I'll probably be pretty good. In fact, on songs I've "mastered", I sound as good as I do on my rock songs. The classical guitar is just another "tool" for making music. Now, musicians constantly argue that classical is a more sophisticated style than rock and turn their noses down at rock musicians. But if whether you want to play Metallica or Mozart is up to you. You CAN play Mozart on an electric guitar, but he sounds much nicer on a classical. 
See the analogy?
I will say, however, that, unless one is a master of the brush, a good airbrush user's kits will usually win more often in competition. 

Fact. Virtually every highly respected artist in our hobby (an in this case I'm referring mostly to figure kit builders), uses an airbrush regularly. Fact, there are some techniques almost impossible to accomplish without one. For example: the smooth transition between the underside of a dinosaur and the color above. Now that can be accomplished with spray cans, and holding a cardboard frisket over it to absorb most of the overspray, but that's a difficult technique, especially on smaller kits. 

By the way, even Phil Sera, the "No Airbrush Zone" author in Modeler's Resource, started using one regularly after he tried it. 

One thing I've noticed, looking at people's photos, is that the majority of people here who said that they don't use an airbrush seem to prefer 1/8 or smaller scale styrene kits, or they are car builders where an spray can replaces the airbrush.

But for figure kits with large areas of exposed skin, like a 1/6 scale Conan, a 1/6 scale "girlie" kit, of a 1/4 scale bust, an airbrush is practically a necessity to achieve the subtle highlights and shadows necessary to create a realistic skin tone. Though it may sound elitist, I, too, have seen people's kits that they "proudly" claim were done without an airbrush, and after looking at the skin tones and the over drybrushed clothing, I think to myself, "that is painfully obvious." 

But in the final analysis, it's a matter of personal choice.


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## Jafo (Apr 22, 2005)

all I can say is, if you dont, you dont know what your missing!


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## otto (Jan 1, 1970)

I've never used one, but can see the advantages in certain applications. Hopefully this old dog will get one one of these days and learn some new tricks.


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## Disco58 (Apr 10, 2011)

razorwyre1 said:


> take a look:


What's that little 'knob' or button in front of the main trigger? My 'H' doesn't have that.


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## Mitchellmania (Feb 14, 2002)

I always used spay paints and hand brushing.


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## Disco58 (Apr 10, 2011)

FLKitbuilder -- Darn you all to heck!!! Here I've been working on a reply to this thread for a couple three days now, editing and rewriting to not whiz in anyone's Wheaties, and you go and steal virtually everything I was going to say. You must be sykic, or sykotic, or something....(someone like me!):thumbsup: 
To the rest --If I may add that what I was originally suggesting, was that this thread might have been better titled, "Airbrush or not, based on what you build". After reading all the responses, that's really what it boils down to. I thought it sad that some elitist bashing found its way in fairly quickly, and there's no reason for it. If someone showed me they could build an engine with nothing but a crescent wrench, I would bow down and give them a hearty, "You ROCK!". The dedicated Amish routinely build barns and houses without modern tools, or even modern fasteners. It's their way, and it works for them. As the saying goes, 'if it works, it ain't broke, and if it ain't broke, don't fix it'. My dad was a blue collar grunt, Mr. Fix-it type, and taught me the ways of the rattle can. I started building model cars with my brother, and for the bodies we used a rattle can. As I got older I learned to paint 1:1 cars, motorcycles, even aircraft, all with a spray gun, so maybe I just have a 'spray' mentality going. On the other hand, if I were going to paint a house (do they still do that?), I wouldn't even consider a sprayer, although people do it. I think most of us just inherently know which projects are better sprayed, and which are better brushed. Modeling confuses our brains. One side says, "It's this small thing, just brush it", while the other side says, "Yea, but we want a nice smooth finish, ya gotta spray it". And I wonder if that wasn't the very conflict that was going on a hundred plus years ago when the modern airbrush was invented. Although I don't do it, my initial interest in airbrushing is just an extension of 1:1 automotive painting. I'd see all this cool artwork on cars at the dragstrip, and thought it be great to be able to do that. Mind you, I said it would be great to know, but not necessarily great to learn (having ADD/ADHD is no fun, trust me). I was reintroduced to modeling in the mid 90's when one of my painters had been using my office for a lunch break, and left a copy of Fine Scale Modeler on my desk. As I was reading the articles I noticed everyone talking about airbrushing, hmmm. My guy used an airbrush all the time, hmmm. I've painted my share of cars, bikes, planes, etc with a production gun, how different can it be? How hard can this be? My rude awakening came when I bought my first airbrush, a Paasche VL, a double action internal mix as most of you know. Some love it, some don't (I don't think anyone actually hates it), but even after sixteen years I still haven't figured the damn thing out. What I have figured out is that it's a PITA to clean properly, and it has more capabilities than I need, or even care to learn to use. One of the things I actually did like about it was the trigger adjuster that allows it to be essentially converted to an internal mix single action. When that singular fact really hit home in my brain there was this sudden moment of clarity -- I heard harps, and angels singing on high. It became a _better _airbrush for what I needed/wanted, but there was still that cleaning issue.... In general, I think anyone who pooh-pooh's airbrushing or hand brushing as a whole is doing themselves, and their work, a disservice. Both have their place in modeling. The caveat there is that it obviously depends on what you build, or at least paint (since some don't require assembly). If all you work on is gaming figures or items of that size, then the expense, maintenance and frustration of an airbrush may not make sense to you, and that's fine. For bigger items, and things that need a particularly smooth finish, spraying (by whatever method) probably makes more sense than trying to handbrush the same finish. One thing I will definitely say in the defense of those who use the 'hairy stick' is that they can use a bristle brush from start to finish, but someone who airbrushes will almost invariably resort to a bristle brush for details or touch up.


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## Seaview (Feb 18, 2004)

"Any powder that kills flea is GOOD powder." - Charlie Chan

"Any method that enjoyably works to achieve a satisfying finished build is a GOOD method". - Modellers Anywhere


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## razorwyre1 (Jan 28, 2004)

Disco58 said:


> What's that little 'knob' or button in front of the main trigger? My 'H' doesn't have that.


essentially its a trigger lock. its a threaded "knob" (for lack of a better term) which either keeps the trigger down for continual spray, or keeps it from going down all the way. some "h"s have it, others dont. ive never found a good use for it!


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## FLKitbuilder (Apr 10, 2011)

Sykotic, more than likely, Disco...at least Nikki thought so.  

(Psychotic sp. just so people don't think Disco and I are unleterate , uh illletterate...uh.can't reed and rite) 

Believe it or not, this kind of literacy IS quite common among teenagers today. Sad, isn't it?


Anyway, sorry to steal your thunder, buddy, but in reading your posts here, it seems we do sorta think alike at times..frightening isn't it? 
Speaking of airbrushes, I got my Sotars back from Badger today. (yes, I have 2. bought one and then got one thru the Kitbuilder's class in '06) Cranked one of them up and it's working like new. 
I'll try the other, if that works ok, maybe I'll sell it here. No sense keeping 2.

I'm beginning to think that getting the Iwata HP-B+ was overkill. 
All I can spray with it is paints made for airbrushing. That really limits color variations. Of course, since it's for fine lines anyway, I probably won't need a lot of variations. But I think I should have just stayed with my Sotar. The grass always seems greener on the other side, doesn't it? 

Oh and on airbrushing. I'm working on Hodad at the moment. Foolishly, I didn't airbrush his face, hands, feet and legs. Consequently, I had to use at least 5 coats of Frex Flex Pale Flesh to get full coverage over the grey primer 5!!! Well, four coats of Freak Flex and one of Delta Ceramcoat Flesh straight out of the bottle as the final coat. I probably could have done the same thing with an airbrush in 2 coats max. Now he looks as if a lady of the evening from 42d street applied 3 coats of pancake makeup on his body. 
I AM using an airbrush on the base though. I do learn from mistakes sometimes.

Correction: I actually basecoated the base in, believe it or not, straight pastels and drybrushed it with Delta Sandstone. I think it looks great. Pix forthcoming in my WIP thread.


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## Styrofoam_Guy (May 4, 2004)

One thing I have not seen mentioned here is cost. For some people it can cost quite a bit to get an airbrush and a compressor.

Each modeler has a limit to how much they want to spend on this hobby and an airbrush is over that limit for some people. Add a compressor to that and the cost skyrockets.

I think I understand why some people say they are afraid of the airbrush. I think they are afraid that after spending so much money on an airbrush and a compressor that they cannot learn how to use it and the money spend is wasted.

It is a legitimate fear. I had such a terrible time with my first airbrush that at one time it sat for over a year unused. No matter how much I practiced I could not get good results. This was before I joined any model club so all I had were magazine articles. Only after I got a different airbrush did I start to get better.


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## zike (Jan 3, 2009)

I think the cost argument doesn't hold up anymore.

I'm looking at a SCALE MODELER magazine from 1976.

There's an ad from Valley Plaza Hobbies selling a Paasche VL for $51.95. Today, depending on the accessories, Dick Blick sells the Paasche VL for between $51.45 and $61.95. 

In that same era of the '70's, The giant Revell 1/72 scale B-52 cost $12.00. The 1/32 scale F4 Phantom was $6.70. A 1/72 scale Hasegawa Mustang was $1.30.

35 years ago, airbrushing was a big investment. An airbrush cost ten times as much as the average kit. The minimum wage was probably about $2.00 an hour in most states. Cheap Chinese air compressors didn't exist.

Today, we buy many kits that cost $20.00, $40.00 or more. Look at the price of resin kits or something like the Moebius Jupiter 2 or Big Frankie.

An airbrush today costs about the same as one, large detailed kit. A perfectly workable aircompressor can be had for $40.00. A Paasche air compressor in 1976 ran $50.00 to $60.00.

Airbrush costs haven't really risen a dime in 35 years. Kits are at least five times or ten times more expensive than they were back then. Airbrushing is no longer the huge investment that it was in the old days.

If you can afford to buy three very nice kits, you can afford an airbrush and compressor.

Cost is just not a legitimate argument in 2011.


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## Seaview (Feb 18, 2004)

zike said:


> Cost is just not a legitimate argument in 2011.


 
Unless you have to deal with a BUDGET. I'd rather pay $$ to $$$ for a kit that I actually WANT and spend the rest of my money on "needs" instead of "wants", than to buy an airbrush, compessor, and a bunch of other do-dads that I'll have to self-teach myself to use with good results for an unknown period of time.
In short; investing in a "sure thing" as opposed to draining my wallet on a "possible" sure thing. :dude:


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## FLKitbuilder (Apr 10, 2011)

Seaview, there's no "possible" about it. Once you learn to use it properly, using an airbrush will make your finishes look better. 

Actually, you can learn to use an airbrush for painting models in a little over an hour. Gaining pinpoint control might take a little longer. 

But the key to learning is NOT to learn on a model. Learn on paper. If you don't know a modeler than can teach you directly, get a basic airbrushing book, do the exercises and you'll have complete control in a matter of hours. When starting out, it's best to use paints made for airbrushing so you don't have to deal with clogged tips from insufficiently mixed paints. 

I attended the "airbrushing 101" class at Wonderfest and saw people who never used an airbrush in their life practically master a double action Iwata HP-C+ in under an hour. 
Of course that doesn't include cleaning and maintenance, but there are videos on YouTube that can teach you that also.

As for all the necessary doodads my list includes: 

Coffee can full of clean water for cleaning out paint cups if not using a gravity feed airbrush.
Small paper or plastic cups for mixing paints
A big brush for mixing paints or popsicle sticks. Popsicle sticks waste a lot less. But there is a battery operated mixer available at Micro Mark which is extremely good for the job. 
Pipe cleaners 
Qtips
Paper Towels. I like the blue heavy duty ones from Sam's club in the automotive/hardware section. 
A watercolor pad for testing your spray. 
A large cardboard box works fine as a spray booth if you're using acrylic or other water based paints as long as there is good ventilation. 
Alcohol and windshield wiper fluid for thinners. Alcohol more for cleaning dried up paint. 
A strong light aimed at the subject you're painting. Lighting is a huge factor in being able to see how thick your paint is being applied. 
I don't use enamels in my airbrush, but if you're going to, obviously you'll need solvents like mineral spirits or turpenoid. 

That about does it for my airbrushing station. Most of these items are very inexpensive. the whole setup should be less than $20, not counting the battery operated mixer and the watercolor pad which can be a little pricey depending on how many sheets you get. Alternatively, you could use a couple of paper towels. But when first learning, I suggest the watercolor paper.


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## Solium (Apr 24, 2005)

I tried an airbrush on a kit (Speeder from Empire) those many years ago. I was amazed at the fine spray and quality finish. Then all the troubles began. Clogged or bent tips and it just became a battle to get the thing to work.

15 years later I learned to use an airbrush while attending trade school. Did a fairly good 2D painting with it. But again, clogging tips, dripping paint and constant cleaning made it a chore to use. 

I would really like to feel comfortable with an airbrush. I know practice makes perfect, but it seems some people are born to use an airbrush while others like me can't seem to get a good feel for them.


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## FLKitbuilder (Apr 10, 2011)

Clogging tips are probably due to the medium you were using and maybe not a strong enough psi on the compressor. Or if it was acrylics, it probably needed a drop or two of extender. Just don't overdo the extender. You'll end up with a thick mess. The model of the brush often determines what kind of paints you can use without causing cogging. For example, my HP-B+ can only use paints made for airbrushing because of the ultra-fine tip. Anything else clogs very quickly. I learned too late that it's really designed for fine arts and airbrush designs using inks and very thin paints. Not very useful for making models. 

Generally, needles only get bent if you drop the brush so that shouldn't have happened more than once. They can get damaged if replaced incorrectly though or if you try to force them back into the airbrush. I'm not implying that's what you did, but it's what is usually the cause. 

An airbrush is a precision instrument and needs to be treated with kid gloves. 

One suggestion to prevent the "oh $&*%@ I dropped that tiny piece" syndrome when cleaning one is to keep a Glad or Rubbermaid container with some water under it while disassembling, so, if one of those nasty, small parts does fall, it doesn't bounce and get lost in the never never land of the garage, basement, dining room or bedroom floor. Or worse, a carpet. Try finding the tiny silver nozzle of a Sotar 20/20 on the grey floor of your garage. I did after crawling around with a flashlight and magnifying glass for 15 minutes. Thus, my discovery of Glad containers. It's amazing what you find down there when you're that close up. It's another world.


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## Seaview (Feb 18, 2004)

:thumbsup: Thanks, FLKitbuilder; I'm going to view some of those "how to" videos on YouTube; I may just get inspired, seeing as how I've always loved the professional airbrushing jobs I've seen on successfully built models, but admit that I've had nothing but frustration in trying to accomplish the same results with the sputtering Paasche airbrush and Sears air compressor I tried using many years ago, with enamals. I was pretty good at accomplishing camo jobs on German tanks, and weathering them, but sold my set-up after years of not using it.


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## Solium (Apr 24, 2005)

@ FLKitbuilder- I am sure you are correct. I probably bent the tip unassembling and reassembling the airbrush after cleaning. I didn't know at the time how sensitive it was. 

Also as you suggested my paint was probably too thick. And I didn't have a clue about the psi. 

So in short, I think I lacked the proper information and practice required to master the tool.

I also like the idea of mastering the airbrush with paper or cardstock before moving onto a model kit. As one should be putting the effort into masking and painting not getting the darn thing to work!


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## Bruce Bishop (Jan 17, 1999)

I think that airbrushes are great, although I don't have enough of a desire to ever try getting set up and using one. I have not yet even come close to mastering a regular hand brush yet, let alone an airbrush. 

And I feel reasonably satisfied with my results, so I don't feel the need to buy the equipment, and set up and take down the workspace and equipment as needed when I want to paint. Spray cans for large areas, and hand brushing for everything else is good enough for me for now. 

Plus I don't have to bother masking things off. I do have some masking material that worked reasonably well for me, but then I won't need to be using it frequently when airbrushing, so I'm ok with very limited masking work. 

I love the fantastic airbrush work I have seen, but don't feel the need to try and emulate it.


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## FLKitbuilder (Apr 10, 2011)

Seaview, if your Paasche was sputtering, it was because the paint was too thick or the air pressure was too low.That often happens with those loud 2 gal models. I have both the VL and the HK. The VL can spray just about anything, but enamels did require a little thinning. I rarely use the VL now since I have the Sotar and Iwatas, but the HK is still good for doing large scale basecoating, as on my Gorgo model. 

Solium, there is a wealth of infrormation available in these forums and elsewhere on line about the care of feeding of your airbrush  as well as specific techniques. And if you're building mostly figure models, I highly recommend David Fisher's Modelmania series. Do a search on this forum for the information about it


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## Solium (Apr 24, 2005)

FLKitbuilder said:


> I highly recommend David Fisher's Modelmania series. Do a search on this forum for the information about it


Thanks I will. :thumbsup:


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## iriseye (Sep 21, 2010)

Originally posted by *FLKitbuilder*



> get a basic airbrushing book,


What do you recommend?


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## razorwyre1 (Jan 28, 2004)

badger (an airbrush co.), used to publish several of them. that were quite good. i know some are still out there. words "basic" or "beginner's" in the title.

then pick up some on airbrushing models. painting 3 dimensional objects is a bit different than painting a picture. 

the number 1 rule of airbrushing: your hand should start moving before you press the trigger, and continue moving after you release it. get used to doing that, and its downhill from there.


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## FLKitbuilder (Apr 10, 2011)

I guess for modeling solid objects like models, a traditional airbrush book probably isn't going to be that helpful. They teach you about airbrushes, what kinds there are, what they do, and some even teach you about cleaning and maintenance. But they also concentrate on painting 2d images and not models. So I retract my statement about getting a book. 

I'm primarily a figure model painter so I'm a proponent of using a double action brush for subtle shading. But for model car or military modelers, that may not be necessary. 
I think that if you're going to use a single action brush, the only way to learn to do it, is to do it. Buy a really cheap, snap together kit that you don't mind screwing up, and practice on it until you feel comfortable using it on a kit you care about. 

For a double action brush which requires more control, I think practicing on watercolor paper might be preferable until you feel comfortable with the trigger and have good control of paint flow. For figure modelers, the Modelmania DVD's are invaluable. For others, you'll have to ask those of your genre that use the airbrush for advice on specific techniques and uses. But the basic physical controls are the same. Depress the trigger to release the air, and pull back to release the paint. The trick is learning how much finger pressure to use when releasing the paint.

Considering the prevalence of airbrushes in the scale model hobby, it's strange that there isn't a comprehensive airbrush training dvd set available which covers ALL the various genres of models.


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## iriseye (Sep 21, 2010)

Origionally Posted by *FLkbuilder*:



> So I retract my statement about getting a book.


Darn. I ordered "The Big Book of Airbrush Techniques and Materials" from Amazon. Will see what it provides.


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

I had a little squarish Badger airbrush book that was quite useful. It did cover using the airbrush for different things, but that is good... it covered using stencils, shading, painting something flat to look 3D, how to start and end your spray strokes, how to paint models, etc. This was some 40 years ago but I know the book was still out at least in the 80s and into the 90s if not still available.

Yup this looks familiar...

http://web4.hobbylinc.com/gr/bad/bad505.jpg

http://www.tcpglobal.com/images/bad-505lg.jpg


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## FLKitbuilder (Apr 10, 2011)

that's ok, Iriseye. I saw that book on Amazon too. Looks pretty good. I'm sure it will have a lot of helpful information.


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## zike (Jan 3, 2009)

I have several airbrushing books. None of them cover model painting but all of them are useful. Anything that gives you a broader knowledge of tools and techniques is a good thing. My criticism of figure modelers has been that they tend to be to narrowly focused. And I'm mostly a figure modeler myself. But figure modelers and sci-fi modelers in general would be wise to broaden their outlook because it will make them better modelers in general.

I like to suggest they try a model airplane or two. That gives you some intense training on seam filling and decalling. Put together a P-51 and you'll do a better job on the Wolfman.

With airbrushing, practice with 2D art on some paper is good training for the things that you really want to know. You'll learn coordination and control. It's easier to practice the 2D stuff on paper before you try it on a model.

Don't regret buying an airbrushing book. You'll probably find it inspiring.


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## USS Atlantis (Feb 23, 2008)

Osprey put out a manual back in '08

*Airbrushing and Finishing Scale Models*

Starts with basic airbrush techniques and takes you through finishing

Available at Amazon

And yes, I have a copy

Good primer and decent teacher


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## OKCmike (Aug 22, 2010)

And don't forget the good ol Public Library, it's free and I found several good books on airbrushing there when I first began using one. Sorry can't recall names of any off top of my head though.


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## Disco58 (Apr 10, 2011)

I thought there was someone in all this chatter that mentioned using a Paasche H exclusively, and for quite awhile. I presume that means they know it's pros, cons, etc, etc. I need some advice. I haven't used one in years, and the one I had I sold to a guy who is asking a lot of "How do I...?" questions, and I don't have the answers. Will someone please hook me (or more precisely, him) up? Thanks.


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## razorwyre1 (Jan 28, 2004)

Disco58 said:


> I thought there was someone in all this chatter that mentioned using a Paasche H exclusively, and for quite awhile. I presume that means they know it's pros, cons, etc, etc. I need some advice. I haven't used one in years, and the one I had I sold to a guy who is asking a lot of "How do I...?" questions, and I don't have the answers. Will someone please hook me (or more precisely, him) up? Thanks.


that was me. what do you need to know?


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## PF Flyer (Jun 24, 2008)

Good info now that we've gotten past the "I do-You don't" stuff. I'd appreciate any more suggestions for solid reference works and how-to manuals.


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## Desslock (Mar 5, 2011)

Yes, keep it coming. I will learn! Can anyone link to an airbrush that they'd recommend that's available for online purchase? Or am I better off just going into a craft store? Is that better than a dedicated hobby shop for such things?


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## USS Atlantis (Feb 23, 2008)

Single action, Internal mix - I've had very good luck with my Badger 200, easy to dis-assemble for cleaning, a real workhorse

Can do relatively fine lines to full coverage spread (with the medium tip/needle), can get even finer with the fine tip/needle - easy change out from one to the other

Online at multiple places - and I've seen them at Michaels too


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## razorwyre1 (Jan 28, 2004)

Desslock said:


> Yes, keep it coming. I will learn! Can anyone link to an airbrush that they'd recommend that's available for online purchase? Or am I better off just going into a craft store? Is that better than a dedicated hobby shop for such things?


sure thing!
http://www.dickblick.com/products/paasche-model-h-airbrush-set/


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## Disco58 (Apr 10, 2011)

Desslock said:


> Yes, keep it coming. I will learn! Can anyone link to an airbrush that they'd recommend that's available for online purchase? Or am I better off just going into a craft store? Is that better than a dedicated hobby shop for such things?


I try to help support the LHS (local hobby shop) first --there aren't many left, and their numbers are dwindling. While item 'X' might be a bit more expensive than getting it online, they might cut you a deal on item 'Y', so many times there's a balance. With a LHS you also have the ability to hold something in your hand before you buy it -- can't do that with online. There's also the ability to get something today instead of waiting a week for it to arrive. If you decide to go online, here's a good source.
http://www.dixieart.com/


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

USS Atlantis said:


> Single action, Internal mix - I've had very good luck with my Badger 200, easy to dis-assemble for cleaning, a real workhorse
> 
> Can do relatively fine lines to full coverage spread (with the medium tip/needle), can get even finer with the fine tip/needle - easy change out from one to the other
> 
> Online at multiple places - and I've seen them at Michaels too


The Badger 200 is my basic brush of choice. It is one of the most common of all airbrushes around so getting parts is super simple. Badger also markets the same brush for doing fingernails and cakes, so in addition to being able to get parts for it at hobby and craft stores, you can also get parts at larger beauty supply shops and cake decorating shops.

Note there are two different 200 airbrushes. The common newer one has a simplified head assembly with a kinda one size fits all single needle and tip. The nozzle design is similar to newer Paasche brushes or the Badger 175. Its very easy to use, clean and probably will work fine for 90% of beginners. Now, the old (I think they call it classic) 200 has a multi part head with seperate spray cone and a tiny spray nozzle inside. There are three or four different size matching needle and nozzle assemblies ranging from xtra fine to heavy duty. The brush is slightly more fiddley for cleaning but has more versatility in what it can do. Parts from one are NOT interchangable with the other. I learned that when I got the new design and could not use the large number of old nozzles and needles that I have with it.


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## USS Atlantis (Feb 23, 2008)

djnick66 said:


> The Badger 200 is my basic brush of choice. It is one of the most common of all airbrushes around so getting parts is super simple. Badger also markets the same brush for doing fingernails and cakes, so in addition to being able to get parts for it at hobby and craft stores, you can also get parts at larger beauty supply shops and cake decorating shops.
> 
> Note there are two different 200 airbrushes. The common newer one has a simplified head assembly with a kinda one size fits all single needle and tip. The nozzle design is similar to newer Paasche brushes or the Badger 175. Its very easy to use, clean and probably will work fine for 90% of beginners. Now, the old (I think they call it classic) 200 has a multi part head with seperate spray cone and a tiny spray nozzle inside. There are three or four different size matching needle and nozzle assemblies ranging from xtra fine to heavy duty. The brush is slightly more fiddley for cleaning but has more versatility in what it can do. Parts from one are NOT interchangable with the other. I learned that when I got the new design and could not use the large number of old nozzles and needles that I have with it.


You can send them to me - I've still got and use my 30 year old "classic" :dude:


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

USS Atlantis said:


> You can send them to me - I've still got and use my 30 year old "classic" :dude:


So do I. Sadly though the parts for the current classic do not fit my circa 1976 classic. I have a newer old one that they will fit though.


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## Desslock (Mar 5, 2011)

Ignoring the probably high price, does this Iwata kit contain a good airbrush, compressor and ancillary items if I wanted to begin airbrushing? Getting a package along with the included instruction guides has appeal...

http://www.amazon.com/Iwata-Medea-I...toys-and-games&ie=UTF8&qid=1309157578&sr=1-21


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## razorwyre1 (Jan 28, 2004)

Desslock said:


> Ignoring the probably high price, does this Iwata kit contain a good airbrush, compressor and ancillary items if I wanted to begin airbrushing? Getting a package along with the included instruction guides has appeal...
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Iwata-Medea-I...toys-and-games&ie=UTF8&qid=1309157578&sr=1-21


well, as to the compressor, id say no. 
for your compressor, skip the art store and go directly to the hardware store. "airbrush" compressors are always overpriced and underpowered.


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## rkoenn (Dec 18, 2007)

Desslock said:


> Ignoring the probably high price, does this Iwata kit contain a good airbrush, compressor and ancillary items if I wanted to begin airbrushing? Getting a package along with the included instruction guides has appeal...
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Iwata-Medea-I...toys-and-games&ie=UTF8&qid=1309157578&sr=1-21


Well I have an Iwata HP-CS and a Badger Renegade. I use the Iwata more as it has two nozzles and I can do very fine painting with it. The Badger has an extremely fine nozzle, 0.25mm I believe, so I use it only for extremely fine detail work. I would say that the price on that package is a bit high and you can pick up a good compressor for $100-150 and the brush for just a bit over $100.

Bob K.


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## iriseye (Sep 21, 2010)

Airbrush aside, for the compressor, would one recommend a compressor with an airtank (where the compressor pressurizes an airtank), or one without (where the compressor runs all the time)?


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## Dracula (Jun 5, 2005)

iriseye said:


> Airbrush aside, for the compressor, would one recommend a compressor with an airtank (where the compressor pressurizes an airtank), or one without (where the compressor runs all the time)?


darn computer.double post


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## Dracula (Jun 5, 2005)

iriseye said:


> Airbrush aside, for the compressor, would one recommend a compressor with an airtank (where the compressor pressurizes an airtank), or one without (where the compressor runs all the time)?


Personally I prefer the compressor with a tank, as it provides a smooth steady supply of air to the air brush.


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## USS Atlantis (Feb 23, 2008)

Ditto the tanked compressor

I set up a complete system to power the airbrush for under $100

My blog post on it - click on the pic for labels of the parts needed


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## rat salad (Oct 18, 2004)

I never use an airbrush, mainly because I have nowhere to use one. I was given one years back from my Dad, and gave it back to him. Also, I mainly build monsters, and use enamels exclusively. I only use acrylics for washes.

I use to use my Dad's airbrush as a boy. I painted mainly airplanes with it.....acrylics. I remember I use to play with the planes in the bathtub and the acrylic paint always waterlogged and fell off the model....LOL.


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## Desslock (Mar 5, 2011)

I find this hobby has become so insular and cliquey that it's difficult to separate the substantive responses from the defensive ones. Asking whether enamels are better than acrylics, regardless of price, will primarily just garner a dozen responses about how acrylics are better because they're cheaper. They may well also be better, but that's difficult to determine because posters seem primarily motivated by the desire to justify their own choices (or traditional habits they've maintained) without otherwise explaining them.

Asking about for comments about an airbrush kit with the caveat to ignore the fact that it's overpriced, earns 5 responses, 3 of which just say the kit is overpriced. It's hard to separate between the posts trying to help and the post just rationalizing their own decisions --- people seem very stubborn and set in their ways, in this hobby -- and they've proven to be passionate enough to endure (and sustain) a fading market, but sometimes it's hard to understand you guys, lol. 

I'm sorry if that all sounds ungrateful for the commentary - I'm not - the discussion in this thread (and forum) has been very helpful, but it's also revealed that the remaining hobbyists often seem very set in their ways.


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## kangg7 (Jun 21, 2000)

One thing I've found that helps with the clogging issues is to strain my paint with a piece of fabric from an pair of pantyhose. It's a perfect strainer for my airbrush paint and my clogging issues have almost completely disappeared after I started doing this.
One note, this has worked for acrylic paints. I'm not sure how it will work on enamels. i have not done any work with enamels for several years now.

Model on :wave:

Dave


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## dreadnaught726 (Feb 5, 2011)

*Easy to clean airbrush*

Airbrushes can be a royal pain, particulary the high end internal mix units which are a pain in the neck to keep clean, For years I have been using the Testors/Aztec airbrush which is probably the most economical and maintainance free airbrush there is. The paint mixes in the nozzel not in the body of the brush which makes cleaning a breeze. I use acrylics almost exclusively so basically all I do is run some alcohol through the tip to clean. After use I just take the tips and store them in a jar of alcohol. There's alot to be said about brush painting and rattle cans (I always use cans for car or metalized finishes) but if you need to airbrush the Aztec is the way to go.


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## razorwyre1 (Jan 28, 2004)

dreadnaught726 said:


> Airbrushes can be a royal pain, particulary the high end internal mix units which are a pain in the neck to keep clean, For years I have been using the Testors/Aztec airbrush which is probably the most economical and maintainance free airbrush there is. The paint mixes in the nozzel not in the body of the brush which makes cleaning a breeze. I use acrylics almost exclusively so basically all I do is run some alcohol through the tip to clean. After use I just take the tips and store them in a jar of alcohol. There's alot to be said about brush painting and rattle cans (I always use cans for car or metalized finishes) but if you need to airbrush the Aztec is the way to go.


aztecs are very very different in design than the typical airbrush. you either love them or hate them. as my experience regarding cleaning and maintenance was exactly the opposite of dreadnaught's, i fall into the latter category. (i didnt like the "action" on it either, but thats purely personal preference.) i would not recommend an aztec to a beginner.


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## dreadnaught726 (Feb 5, 2011)

Like with any airbrush, the Aztec does have some problems particularly if you don't clean them and allow paint to dry in the nozzels. If this happens you can take the tip apart and soak in lacquer thinner (it will not hurt them) and clean it out. I agree with razorwyre1 that it is purely a personal preference and what works for one person may not work for another. Personally, I have always had problems with Badger airbrushes so this works for me. Thanks razorwyre1 for your response.


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## Styrofoam_Guy (May 4, 2004)

Yes airbrushes are personal and what works for one person may not work for another. My first airbrush was a Badger 200 which I had a terrible time learning. I picked up an Aztec and found it easy to learn. I have worked out a system where it is also easy to clean. I soak the tip (taken apart) and cup in a container of Castrol Superclean. The paints never have time to dry.


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## dreadnaught726 (Feb 5, 2011)

Good idea to soak the tips. I usually store the tips after regular cleaning (taken apart) in a small bottle of lacquer thinner when not in use. That way nothing can dry in them. When I need to use a tip, I'll run some alcohol (if using acrylics) or paint thinners (for oil enamals) before using. I have been using this technique for quite awhile and have not bought a new tip in over 4 years.


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## OzyMandias (Dec 29, 2004)

I admire airbrush work very much, but have found it detracts from my enjoyment of painting. I get a lot of pleasure from working paint by hand, and the slower, quieter path of brush painting is also relaxing for me.


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## dreadnaught726 (Feb 5, 2011)

I tend to agree that hand brushing has a certain amount of satisfaction in the sense that you are actually using artistic skills. I usually handbrush figures and reserve airbrushing for large areas such a bases or colors that do not cover well like whites or yellows. I'm always looking for ways to handbrush more effectively whether it be different paint, brushes etc. It is most important to use quality brushes and, this is key, taking good care of your brushes.


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## zike (Jan 3, 2009)

dreadnaught726 said:


> ...hand brushing has a certain amount of satisfaction in the sense that you are actually using artistic skills. I usually handbrush figures and reserve airbrushing for large areas...


It seems like you think an airbrush is a miniature spray gun.


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## dreadnaught726 (Feb 5, 2011)

It is a miniature spray gun but with more precise control and spray pattern. It's just another tool which makes this hobby enjoyable


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## apls (Dec 5, 2005)

I never use an airbrush. I never liked them. I bought one in 1980, use it once. In my travels, I saw some of the greatest paintings in the world. The Mona Lisa (Paris), The Last Supper(MIlian), The Sistine Chapal (Vatican City) Woman in the Chair Picasso(Philadelphia), none of them painted with an airbrush. A brush is a signature, think of Jackson Pollock. I thought about teaching myself to master an airbrush, but I thought better of it.


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## dreadnaught726 (Feb 5, 2011)

I see your point and in some respects you are right. But just think what works DiVinci would produce if he had an airbrush?


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## Zombie_61 (Apr 21, 2004)

Uhh...maybe not the best example.


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## USS Atlantis (Feb 23, 2008)

Maybe not - but I think this shows what an airbrush CAN do










More airbrush art at 

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q...4D98216E3CA95AB4E8E5AB2F69&FORM=IGRE1#x0y1574

Be warned - some are "R" rated


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## OKCmike (Aug 22, 2010)

Zombie- I think that Mona Lisa looks much better than Leonardo's, can't exactly put my finger on why.:jest:


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## zike (Jan 3, 2009)

apls said:


> I never use an airbrush. I never liked them. I bought one in 1980, use it once.


I rest my case.


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## mcdougall (Oct 28, 2007)

Zombie_61 said:


> Uhh...maybe not the best example.



....makes me want to go buy an airbrush 
Mcdee


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## Disco58 (Apr 10, 2011)

apls said:


> I never use an airbrush. I never liked them. I bought one in 1980, use it once. In my travels, I saw some of the greatest paintings in the world. The Mona Lisa (Paris), The Last Supper(MIlian), The Sistine Chapal (Vatican City) Woman in the Chair Picasso(Philadelphia), none of them painted with an airbrush. A brush is a signature, think of Jackson Pollock. I thought about teaching myself to master an airbrush, but I thought better of it.


Smacks of a bit of elitist snobbery, which isn't tolerated terribly well here.... DaVinci was long dead before the airbrush was ever invented, so mentioning two of his works is a moot point. Are you really foolish enough to believe there were nothing but brushes in his tool bag? What do think those little spatulas are for, spreading peanut butter at lunchtime? As a truly brilliant inventor and one of the most forward thinkers in history, had he an airbrush at his disposal, I'm betting he would have put it to use. I'm also betting if he had a computer with a CAD program and a printer he would have set aside the pen and ink. Pollack was an impressionist popular with the elite of 50's New York who rarely used even a brush, so again, a moot point; I also never thought it took a great talent to heave buckets of paint at a canvas then roll around or walk on it. Don't get me started on Picasso...as the saying goes, "never go to a plastic surgeon with Picassos in the waiting room". You sound like one who has never picked up a wrench in your life, and a well stocked toolbox would be a hammer, pliers and maybe a screwdriver. Bristle brushes and airbrushes are just tools to do a job, one being better than or complimentary to the other depending on the task at hand. Even as someone who apparently only uses brushes, it's a real safe bet you have different types at hand. When I had eye I surgery I'm rather thankful the doctor used a diamond scalpel and a microscope as opposed to his Swiss Army knife and a handheld magnifying glass. Like most people who use an airbrush, I also rely on a "hairy stick" for certain things; I find both necessary tools to accomplish *my* goals. For whatever you do, finding an airbrush _unnecessary_ is one thing, but don't you even begin to dismiss it, or the people who use them, as somehow beneath you.


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## dreadnaught726 (Feb 5, 2011)

Very well put Disco58! As modelers we must rely on every tool available and what works for one may not work for another, I utilize an airbrush and brushes both according to the project at hand, Very often I will complete a project without touching an airbrush; however I dont remember ever using an airbrush on a project without using regular brushes at some point. It all boils down to personal choice, a freedom which we all enjoy and respect.


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## Desslock (Mar 5, 2011)

When you talk about using both airbrushes and brushes, based upon which is appropriate or best for particular tasks, can you elaborate? i.e. what painting tasks would you use an airbrush for, but not a brush, and vice versa?


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## dreadnaught726 (Feb 5, 2011)

I would typically use an airbrush to paint large broad surfaces or completed sub assemlies that are the same color such as automotive chassis, interiors, car bodies, aircraft fuselages, sci fi ships, I could go on. I would also use an airbrush to spray colors that don't typically cover well like whites or yellows. I use brushes for small details,cockpits, etc. I almost always use brushes for figures although I will use an airbrush for the bases to blend colors or cover wide areas. Another area I use an airbrush is when I want to fog or blend colors or do shading on figures or terrain. Finally I will almost certainly use an airbrush when I want a smooth finish with no brushmarks such as car or ship bodies, camo patterns, I could go on. I hope this is helpful but keep in mind that if you are perfectly happy with your results without using an airbrush, then that's fine and continue having fun. Again it's all about personal choice.


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## agentsmith (Mar 27, 2005)

I feel sorry for those who choose not to use an airbrush, it is so much quicker AND easier to paint a model using an airbrush.
Some people may have had a bad experience trying to use one of those ''beginner'' airbrush sets but there is a very good selection of airbrushes available today that are easy to use and not all that expensive. 
My advice to those who have not yet purchased an airbrush is to start with a double action gravity feed airbrush and learn how to use it instead of starting out with one of those so called beginner airbrushes which often give poor results and are really not much more than a toy. A double action gravity feed airbrush will take a little longer to learn how to operate but you will not need to buy another airbrush for a very long time so you will actually save money by starting out with a quality airbrush.
No matter what type of airbrush you buy they MUST be kept clean, at the end of a painting session I always remove the spray nozzle and needle and clean them which only takes about five minutes to do so I can't understand why some people avoid using an airbrush because they claim it takes too long to do...but yet they will waste a bunch of time (and paint) brush painting a model.

Below is one of my current models I am building, for painting these type of splinter/ mottle camouflage patterns using an airbrush is really the best way to go, I have seen models before that were brush painted with this type of camouflage pattern but it must have taken a huge effort to blend the colors with a paint brush.









Agentsmith


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## apls (Dec 5, 2005)

I never thought I would get a response, like the one from DISCO 58, I am not an elitist snob, that was out of line. I do not like airbrushes, that is just my opinion. For my kits I get a better result from a good base coat, washes and dry brushing, without the fake, cheap look the airbrush gives. This is a site that is free from attacks such as this, I would like it stay that way, if I injured anyone I am sorry. I cannot see where I felt using an airbrush was beneath me. I love art and artist, I was blessed to travel the world to see these wonderful works, don't hold that against me.


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## zike (Jan 3, 2009)

apls said:


> I get a better result from a good base coat, washes and dry brushing, without the fake, cheap look the airbrush gives. This is a site that is free from attacks


So you leveled that insulting cheap shot and then claimed that this is a site that is free from attacks.

You're quite a piece of work.

But the funniest thing about this whole thread is the intransigent opinion offered by people, yourself included, who admit to trying an airbrush once. I don't know why anybody who had only tried something once would even publicly state an opinion. You're rather foolish sounding when you admit you tried something once and couldn't do it...so you've determined it's fake and cheap. Just a very strange thing to do.


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## dreadnaught726 (Feb 5, 2011)

Come on people, an airbrush is just one of MANY tools that we modelers use to enjoy our hobby. No one is insisting that you need to use an airbrush to get professional or decent results. Everyone enjoys this hobby to the best of their ability and talents and again what works for one does not neccessarily work for another. There is no need to bicker over what works best! It's purely a matter of personal choice. I try to take advantage of every tool I have access to, even if I am not familiar or fond of it. If it results in a good build, then great. If some people are going to get personal or nasty about whether or not to use an airbrush, then maybe it's time to close this thread. Remember, this hobby is all about having fun and being creative.


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## falcondesigns (Oct 30, 2002)

This has got to be the lamest ten pages on this board.People trying to justify using a square wheels,so they can feel good about their "work".And comparing the great artists so not to use a tool,is like trying to do surgery with one hand,please!


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## dreadnaught726 (Feb 5, 2011)

Bravo Falcondesigns!!


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## apls (Dec 5, 2005)

Thank you that was the point I was trying to make. I m done.


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## rkoenn (Dec 18, 2007)

To answer the question about what was used for painting a model here is my Silly Surfer I built about two years ago. The surfer's body was painted with an airbrush(ab) using Freak Flex tan flesh acrylic. His hair was also ab'd with Freak Flex yellow. I then shaded the body using the ab with a darker tan Freestyle acrylic. This shading is one area the ab excels at. The eyes and teeth were hand brushed with white acrylic. The suit was masked with silly putty and ab'd blue. The white stripe was taped and hand brushed with white. The hair was also given a wash of tan. The waves were great using the airbrush. I ab'd the primary dark blue, then ab'd a lighter blue and white on the tops as I felt looked good. The surfboard was sprayed with candy apple red lacquer from a can and the stripes were masked and sprayed from cans. So there is a mix of hand brushing, airbrushing, and spray can painting on this model as with all my models. 










Obviously my approach is whatever seems best. Detail work almost strictly needs hand brushing. And my biggest gripe with the airbrush is I use almost strictly acrylics, some made specifically for abing, and still get numerous nozzle clogs. That is quite frustrating believe me. There is definitely some acrylics that work much better from an airbrush than others. Even airbrush specific acrylics can clog nozzles quite easily. I know that lacquers tend to work better in airbrushes but don't want to deal with the odor or cleanup. But I am of the whatever works best for you and whatever is best for the job crowd. I don't judge anyone on their choice of tools.

Bob K.


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## dreadnaught726 (Feb 5, 2011)

What are you thinning your acrylics with?


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## rkoenn (Dec 18, 2007)

dreadnaught726 said:


> What are you thinning your acrylics with?


I have been using mainly Testors acrylic thinner when I do thin the paint. The Freak Flex and the Freestyle are supposed to be airbrush ready and they are quite thin. However I believe the problem lies mainly with too coarse of coloring pigments in the paint. I know for certain that was true of one bottle of black I got from Dan Jorgensen of Freestyle that clogged the nozzle immediately upon attempting to paint. The guy who makes them for him had some batches where he did not grind the pigment fine enough. The other problem with acrylics is they dry so fast they can clog the nozzle and collect on the tip of the needle. I need to look at getting an extender to mix with them as well.


Bob K.


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## falcondesigns (Oct 30, 2002)

A couple of drops of Flow-Aid by Liquitex will help with the clogging and drying.Art Supply Stores


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## Dave P (Jan 5, 2005)

Badger also makes an extender that works quite well with Freak Flex. If you're using a Paache AB, the paint you're using may be too thick for that particular airbrush. It's best with thin inks and dyes.

Try telling people like David Fisher, Steve Riojas, or any of these other guys that their work is fake and cheap looking:

http://amazingmodeler.com/gallery.html

"Excuse me, how do I get to Carnegie Hall?" "Practice!"

All techniques are needed to get these results. 

If you're more comfortable with a brush, so be it. Have fun and get good at it. It's a personal choice that does not need the approval of others.

But, what I don't understand is how can anyone expect to be comfortable and improve with _any_ tool or technique if you dismiss it after one try, or talk as if you hold a purist view that sets you above others. That gives your opinion very little credibility.

No one should be surprised at the direction this thread turned. When you throw an insult, intended or not, expect to get one back. People get defensive when their way of doing things is questioned. Human nature. Read what you write before you hit the post button.


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## dreadnaught726 (Feb 5, 2011)

I believe that the main cause of airbrush clogging with acrylics is not so much the medium but as rkoenn states its the coarseness of the pigments. You are trying to sray paint through a very small aperture and even if you cant visually detect course pigments they are big enough to accumulate in the nozzel. Thinning will not help this. This is why you should stick to modeling paints or paints specifically made for airbrushing. Of course some airbrush manufacturers make tips specifically for use with courser paint (Aztec is one of them) but these are typically high flow tips and not suitable for fine line work. I had previously issued a post regardig using craft acrylics for painting figures. A while ago I tried spraying these through an airbrush with horrible results even after thinning them to the consistancy of skim milk and using different thinners (alcohol, water, alcohol/water/ dishsoap (to reduce surface tension)mix. I am convinced it is because the pigments are much too course. Just imagine trying to spray house paint (which I believe these paints are) through an airbrush.


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## TAY666 (Jan 8, 2000)

agentsmith said:


> there is a very good selection of airbrushes available today that are easy to use and not all that expensive.


And what is your definition of 'not all that expensive' ?
Because for me, that is about $30 (or half a day's pay)

Any decent airbrush is a huge investment for a lot of us.
Combine that with the cost of a compressor, and it is out of reach.
And that was if I even had somewhere to set one up, as I doubt my wife would take kindly to me airbrushing in the middle of the living room.


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## dreadnaught726 (Feb 5, 2011)

Okay, I really think this thread is getting a little out of hand.. My suggestion is to close this thread and replace it with a thread solely dedicated to airbrushing tips and instruction and NO CRITICISM OR COMPLAINING about the pros and cons of airbrushing. This is the last posting I will make on this thread.


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## falcondesigns (Oct 30, 2002)

TAY666 said:


> And what is your definition of 'not all that expensive' ?
> Because for me, that is about $30 (or half a day's pay)
> 
> Any decent airbrush is a huge investment for a lot of us.
> ...


Where there is a will, there is a way.It is called saving.I started with air cans,small compressor,air jack,to silent air which I have now.Big airbrush sites have sales and specials all the time......you can allways find many reasons NOT to do something.


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## starlord (Mar 30, 2011)

I've never ha one to even try out. 90% of my models have been brush painted . even where I live now, there's no way to set up a spaying area. a very few have been painted via spray cans. otherwise it's always been brush painting.


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## TAY666 (Jan 8, 2000)

falcondesigns said:


> Where there is a will, there is a way.It is called saving.I started with air cans,small compressor,air jack,to silent air which I have now.Big airbrush sites have sales and specials all the time......you can allways find many reasons NOT to do something.


Yeah, I could save by not buying kits, but then what would be the point of having the AB 
(that is just being a bit tongue-in-cheek so no one get too up in arms about it)

As I said earlier in this thread.
Some day I will have one, and a place to use it.
But for now, it's not even on the list of things to get.

The building is the part that I enjoy.
Painting is just something you have to do to be able to say the kit is done.


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