# Wheelie shoes????



## kiwidave (Jul 20, 2009)

Can someone please explain how these work??? Pics would help!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170416576110&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT


----------



## smalltime (Jun 3, 2006)

I would assume that you remove the regular shoes and replace them with this deally. It looks like it goes on backwards so the car can transfer weight and stay pointed in a straight line.
Has anyone ever used this thingy on a drag car?
It looks like it would work great!


----------



## CJ53 (Oct 30, 2007)

KD:
Those replace the pickup shoes and guidepin on a tjet... 
I used to glue the pickup shoes to the chassis, so they couldn't fall out.. 
This assembly allows the front of the car to lift up and actually pull a wheelie... and continue down the track... ,,well most of the time.. some tinkering usually was in order to the car in the slot.. 

Can be alot of fun... once you dial it in... 
CJ


----------



## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

*That's about 1 tenth of the trick*

Basically it allows the sufficiently powered pancake chassis to lift itself up into a wheelie position. Obviously the pivot point is the hanger plate on the chassis. Note that the shoe hook bends are severly cranked around past 180 degress AND that a Z bend has been worked into the body of the shoe. (What they dont tell ya)

Also the shoes are detached up front as they have their hanger window removed. The connector bar with the guide pin keeps everything lined up. The rest of the trick includes CA'ing your pick up springs into the chassis index pockets. (Personally I like to remove the centering dowell as well.)

I started messing with these back in the 60's and I'm still messing with them today.

All wheelies are not created equally.

The particular setup you've linked allows the chassis to pop all the way up into what I term the "Exhibition" position. It requires some (or mass) adjustments to the springs to get it all right. Any changes in chassis such as motor mods, gear ratio changes, tires and wheel profiles can send things all kerflooeey. All in all moderately convincing AND still requiring Swiss watch maker tuning skillz for a performance that was never guaranteed.

After countless hours at this trick I have come to prefer to use what I term a "restricted" wheelie. My main objection was always the frog hoppy-door hinge effect that the original version produces when raising or lowering. There is a super fine line between pulling a good wheelstand under throttle and having the front wheels touching the ground at cruising speed. Boing boing boing boing boing.

I was looking for something that would guarantee a realistic wheelstand under hard throttle and maintain a measure of control.

I'll dig up some pix.


----------



## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

Similar to what you have linked. I use thinner material for connector brace. Note the exagerated bends near the shoe hook.










Functioning wheelie bars restrict the amount of lift.










I like to paintem' black for concealment.










Fairly unobtrusive when all is said and done.


----------



## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

*...begat the floating pick up*

So I started playing with the wheelie pick ups and found that you could do other things with the idea. The wheelie pick up comes three different ways here. 

1. Full on wheelie, as shown earlier. The shoe hooks are curled around allowing the assembly to open all the way up. Restriction is accomplished using wheelie bar adjustment or some form of tail skid.

2. The restricted wheelie pick up, where the assembly travel is limited by NOT over bending the shoe hook AND actually opening the hook angle so that the hook's end tang stops travel in the hanger slot. (no pix available) Restriction can also be fine tuned/adjusted using bars. 

3. The floating pick up. Where the guide pin remains with the chassis. Wheelies denied by bars or leaving spring tension stock and adjusting the spring perch just before the shoe hook. This allows all kinds of fun with front tube chassis and altered wheel bases. Weeeeeeeeee!










If you look close you can see that the hanger window frames are retained, bent around AND USED to clamp/re-inforce the cross brace. (blown out braces were always a problem... not no mo!)










Ideally the brace is made as wide as the shoe step is long. The guide pin relief hole is made big because the travel arc of the pick up assembly dictates extra clearance. The screw head relief in the brace allows full upward travel.










The wheelie bars allow half travel of the assembly for good pick up float and electrical contact, but keep the guide pin in the slot.



















Floaters used here to allow styling feedom. Restriction on this model is achieved using spring perch adjustment only. If you look close under this rod you can see the down bend just ahead of the shoe hook.










Here's one with the wacky bends like your linked set. This particular car is restricted using wheelie bars. The whacky bends are required to get the contact patches parallel to the rails because of the gumbo'ed rears. Keep in mind that when you mess with the modified pick ups you'll screw a few up before you get the angle of the dangle fingered out. (This one was reworked later to my later style floating pick up)

If there was any added advantage to all this....it made me a really good STOCK shoe tuner!


----------



## kiwidave (Jul 20, 2009)

Thank you Bill for the insight. Some cool hot rods you have there!!


----------



## buzzinhornet (Jan 20, 2000)

:thumbsup:Cool wheelie cars:thumbsup: 
I remember someone had scanned a article out of one of the old modeling mags on "how to build a wheelie car"and put it on the web... 

GP


----------



## grungerockjeepe (Jan 8, 2007)

Really cool, Bill.


----------



## Hilltop Raceway (Feb 12, 2006)

Bill Hall said:


>


I still enjoying seeing these pics!!! I like this rear off size tandem set up very much!!! RM


----------



## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

Wow, another cool idea I never even heard of!


----------



## Dragula (Jun 27, 2003)

I like the sideways guide pin on the spotted snot rod.You could buy the AJ's wheelie kit for .99 in the olden days,and they were connected by a rubber strip which acted as a dampener for track joints and rail height inconsistencies.The same mag that had the wheelie shoe tech article had a brass tubing front end extender article with shim stock "wiper" shoes.Nothing new under the slot car sun,just folks making it harder than it actually is.FYI Use american line shoes,they have square backed shoe tabs instead of rounded aurora/new model motoring,they stay in the chassis better.


----------



## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

Yeah I guess I should get around to spraying that snotrod one of these days....but if the mottled blocking really offends delicate sensibilities... I suppose I could leave it a while longer. Maybe I'll make it my avatar.


----------



## Dragula (Jun 27, 2003)

Why paint it??Wouldnt it attract more attention as the funky chickenmobile?


----------



## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

Cockeyed guide pins? 

...more-n-likely one I bought from you!


----------



## Dragula (Jun 27, 2003)

Zing!!! No it was installed wrong....hadda be you


----------



## roadrner (Jul 21, 1999)

All great looking rods! :thumbsup::thumbsup: rr


----------



## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

*Form AND Function*

I like the sideways guide pin on the spotted snot rod.You could buy the AJ's wheelie kit for .99 in the olden days,and they were connected by a rubber strip which acted as a dampener for track joints and rail height inconsistencies. Yeah and penny whistles and moonpies were a nickel too. Now that we are in the third milenium, instead of the 1960's, we can use things like PTEG instead of flubber. Given that the chassis runs a lowered front axle with raised spindles, where overall pick up travel is restricted and available space is a priority, PTEG is the IDEAL choice being as how it's thin, flexible , and doesnt buck adhesives; not to mention... it's FREE!. 

The same mag that had the wheelie shoe tech article had a brass tubing front end extender article with shim stock "wiper" shoes. Actually the original spec was for piano wire rails with a questionable attachment method, a primitive straight tube front axle, an attractive wad of shunt wires... AND shim stock pick ups... aka - foils....we all know how reliable and durable those are...! LMAO Our family piano still has a dead key to prove it.

Nothing new under the slot car sun,just folks making it harder than it actually is. Unless you can prove otherwise, a pancake powered chassis sporting a raised spindle front drop axle with functional radius arms, reliable screw mounting; AND said chassis using conventionally mounted old school wheelie pick ups modified to work as a floating system, IS something unique and a bit different in an HO scale slotcar. I never claimed any of it was easy or new; only that I had found a different use for the conventional assembly...build them however YOU want Chris and please post them up. Maybe some kind of guitar string creation when your done grinding yer axe.

FYI Use american line shoes,they have square backed shoe tabs instead of rounded aurora/new model motoring,they stay in the chassis better.
FYI...American Line shoes are a lot like that REH guide pin that clearly doesnt quite fit in the required space. No doubt from the magical never ending pallet. The AL shoes are a bit clunky and somewhat irregularly manfactured at times. The added material on the side of the shoe hook tends to make them a bit too snug and therefore kinda "bindy" in the hangerslots; especially as the angle of inclination increases. Under normal conditions standard shoes stay in the chassis just fine as the chassis sits on top of them...the magical powers of.... mass and gravity....woooooooooo! Under duress they WILL eject as an assembly. I find this to be a benefit in a nasty tumble; as the assembly can be easily placed back on the chassis rather than being retained and mangled during a crash.

God Bless :thumbsup:


----------



## Dragula (Jun 27, 2003)

:wave:God Bless


----------



## tjd241 (Jan 25, 2004)

*It's quite easy to critique...*



kiwidave said:


> Can someone please explain how these work??? Pics would help!!


Actually adding positive content is where it seems to gets hard for some folks.



kiwidave said:


> Thank you Bill for the insight. Some cool hot rods you have there!!


Ditto KD. :thumbsup: nd


----------



## Tycoarm (Jan 7, 2006)

I could never get those to work so I found a better way. Some of you have seen this aready.


----------



## win43 (Aug 28, 2006)

Seems to me that someone has been standing in front of an amp that has been turned up too loud. Turn down the volume, take another hit, and step away from the stage.


----------



## tjd241 (Jan 25, 2004)

*Cool Vid T/A...*

Thanks for adding that. :thumbsup::thumbsup: nd


----------



## slotcarman12078 (Oct 3, 2008)

Love that bus, and kinda miss the old lakeside... Can't wait to see it finished!!!! :thumbsup::thumbsup:


----------



## bobhch (Apr 22, 2007)

*The only pic. that is missing here is black & white roadkill carcass (phweeeeeeeeew)*

I would like to thank you Bill for all the pics you posted on how to do a wheelie pickup setup & several options as well. It realy helps to see things like this via a detailed and correct discription. 

This is the part about Hobby Talk that realy makes it work. Everyone here is readily willing to share FUN information WITHOUT having to worry about any Smack Talk or negative coments. Sure everyone has their own take on things but, NOBODY ever tries to purposly ATTACK AND DESTROY another persons post. Well unless they are BOMBED by a WWII fighter plane during times of peace. 

Bob...did someone run over a Skunk...zilla


----------



## JordanZ870 (Nov 25, 2004)

bobhch said:


> *snip*
> This is the part about Hobby Talk that realy makes it work. Everyone here is readily willing to share FUN information WITHOUT having to worry about any Smack Talk or negative coments. Sure everyone has their own take on things but, NOBODY ever tries to purposly ATTACK AND DESTROY another persons post. *snip*
> 
> Bob...did someone run over a Skunk...zilla


Sure they do, Bob. They just don't last very long, yeah?
We police ourselves and protect each other pretty darned well, right?:thumbsup:


----------

