# Need help with the Gemini 12



## Rick N (Dec 30, 2008)

Hi everyone!, I need help in solving a problem and hope someone on this site can do it, or at least point me in the right direction. I will be taking an existing Polar Lights Jupiter 2 kit and build it up as an accurate Gemini 12, or Pilot Jupiter 2 as it is called. I know exactly what changes are needed to be done, such as enlarging the viewport and fusion core, covering all scanner hatch circles, covering up the round portal and main hatchway. I even have the spinning mirror assembly for the dome. My big problem!...the lower hull section. I need to have the lower hull made shallow to fit that proper Gemini 12 profile. Any ideas as to how this can be done? I really want to duplicate the 12 inch studio filming miniature. Thanks ! Rick N.:wave:


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## Larva (Jun 8, 2005)

I think you'd have to chuck the kit's lower hull entirely and build that section up completely new from scratch. I would use radial frames fashioned at the accurate Gemini 12 lower hull profile, 24 to 36 to get the best curve, skinned in pie-slice shaped sheet styrene. There will be plenty of filling and sanding. OR, you could turn out a new lower hull on a lathe using the same accurate profile. Either way, it'll be challenging, but rewarding.


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## Paulbo (Sep 16, 2004)

Larva said:


> skinned in pie-slice shaped sheet styrene.


If you can get a large enough sheet of styrene (your local Modern Plastics, or other plastic supply house) you could use your old high school geometry skills to work out the size of a single piece that would wrap properly and have only a single seam to deal with.

Sure beats the heck out of filing and sanding 8 million intersections of flat styrene then trying to add the proper curvature using putty and a sanding block ...

Or am I the only one who doesn't mind math?


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

You may be able to blend in the roof section from another J2 kit to approximate the correct shallower curve on the G12 bottom. Not sure if it work or not--just an idea.


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## Rick N (Dec 30, 2008)

Thanks so much guys! Your ideas sound good and I know it will take a bit of work and time. Anyone else with good ideas? Please chime in! I am sure someone has by now built up a great looking Gemini 12. Rick N :wave:


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## falcon49xxxx (Aug 4, 2008)

make a buck and have it vacuum formed.


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## Rick N (Dec 30, 2008)

Hi Falcon49xxx, I was thinking about having that lower hull vacuum formed but the question is, By who? I went to a plastics Mfg. company here in south eastern Massachusetts and was told that I would have to place a min. order of 500 pieces and at a cost of several thousand dollars! All i want is a few hull sections at the most.Not looking to spend thousands either. Rick N.


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## JPhil123 (Jan 1, 1970)

Rick N said:


> Hi everyone!, I need help in solving a problem and hope someone on this site can do it, or at least point me in the right direction. I will be taking an existing Polar Lights Jupiter 2 kit and build it up as an accurate Gemini 12, or Pilot Jupiter 2 as it is called. I know exactly what changes are needed to be done, such as enlarging the viewport and fusion core, covering all scanner hatch circles, covering up the round portal and main hatchway. I even have the spinning mirror assembly for the dome. My big problem!...the lower hull section. I need to have the lower hull made shallow to fit that proper Gemini 12 profile. Any ideas as to how this can be done? I really want to duplicate the 12 inch studio filming miniature. Thanks ! Rick N.:wave:


Hi...
I tried several times to do a Gemini 12 on my own, as this is my favorite version of the ship. Where I could not get it right was with the larger viewport, and I gave up after a couple of tries rather than risk any more Jupiter 2 kits. 

I did plan on making the lower hull appear more shallow by slowly cutting down the diameter of the lower hull piece supplied with the kit until it "rested" deeper into the upper hull, then fill in and taper it through putty and sanding work. This being said, mine would have resembled the Gemini, but it sounds like your build will be much closer overall than mine would have turned out. If all else fails with your work to fabricate the lower hull, maybe the my idea of reducing the lower hull diameter piece is an option to try.

It is too late now, but maybe an aftermarket Gemini lower hull piece would have been a good idea a few years ago. Had it been available, I would have purchased one.

Best wishes for a successful build!

Jim


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## Rick N (Dec 30, 2008)

Hi JPHIL123 , Thanks for your modeling tip. I could try cutting down on that lower hull but I have a feeling it may not have that look or profile I am going for. Still, I may give it a try if no other way can be done. Sorry to hear that you had a problem with enlarging the viewport. If you do not mind me asking, what problems did you have? Rick N


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## Paulbo (Sep 16, 2004)

Hi Rick,

Two quick things ...

First: Where abouts in SE Mass are you? I'm in Attleboro. Just curious.

Second: Who have you talked to about the vacuforming? I may not know the right person, but my manufacturing customers might have a line on someone who'd do a couple of pieces if you supply the ready-to-vacuform buck.

EDIT: Modern Plastics is definitely the place to go around here for sheet plastic. Don't remember most numbers off the top of my head, but one I do know is that I bought a 4 by 8 foot sheet of 0.06 styrene was about $25 - they even cut it to 1x1 foot and 2x2 foot pieces at no extra cost.


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## Rick N (Dec 30, 2008)

Hi Paulbo!, I am located in North Dighton. The plastics company is or was located in Brockton. At the moment, I can`t remember the company name as I had contacted them over a year ago. I have heard of Modern Plastics. Thanks for your tip. So far, all of you have had good ideas. I am still open to other ideas and am not in a rush to start this project, however, I do want a nice Gemini 12 by the Summer of 09. Rick N.


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## starseeker2 (Jun 13, 2008)

See Paulbo's post (#3 above). That's definitely the easiest way of doing it and the way I did it on mine years ago. The G12s lower deck angles are all flat so you can make it out of a couple circles of plastic. I believe Vincent Meens still has his cone calculator up at his site:
http://people.itu.int/~meens/model/model.htm
which you can use to calculate your hull sections. (By the way, Vincent is one of the best modelers on the planet and exploring his site is a must for anyone who has ever cemented two pieces of styrene together. And note, Vincent mostly works in cardboard!!)
I like to make conical shapes like that out of two layers of thinner styrene, say .030 or even .040. Certainly no thinner than .020. Offset the seams.
If you use thicker than .040 (single layer), the plastic gets too difficult to curve smoothly, esp at the seam. Make sure you pre-curve the seams backing piece. You don't want a flat seam. 
Make sure you allow for the thickness of the plastic in your calculations. If you're doing two layers of thin plastic, don't use a hot liquid (like Tenax) or CA cement. Use something slow curing, like a Testors liquid. Hot will crack flexed plastic, tho the G12 hull doesn't really have much of a flex, so you'd probably be okay.


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## Rick N (Dec 30, 2008)

Hi Starseeker2, Thanks so much! I may have to take your advise . I also looked up and saved Vincent Meens website. His work is awesome! Do you have any pictures of your Gemini 12? Also...any other ideas are still welcome. Thanks again! Rick N.


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## JPhil123 (Jan 1, 1970)

Rick N said:


> Hi JPHIL123 , Thanks for your modeling tip. I could try cutting down on that lower hull but I have a feeling it may not have that look or profile I am going for. Still, I may give it a try if no other way can be done. Sorry to hear that you had a problem with enlarging the viewport. If you do not mind me asking, what problems did you have? Rick N


Hi, Rick N...
I don't mind at all. On my first try, it was my fault and I messed up (I slipped on a mat!). I tried to fill the mistake and sand it, but was not satisfied with the results. On my second try, I got the cut right but then (later) it just seemed like the bottom of the viewport was now too low. 

Don't be discouraged by me, because I now know I was being WAY too much of a perfectionist. The second try was probably fine, and I may make another attempt in the future. The kits were not completely lost, because I used remaining parts to build Jupiter 2s with the gear down and up that could share the same top.

I know I'm repeating myself, but if another Jupiter 2 model were ever to be developed and released, I wish a consideration would also be given to both a popular Jupiter 2 and a pilot Jupiter 2/Gemini 12. 

If you check my pictures in the Hobbytalk gallery, you can see a picture of a Gemini XII that I had professionally assembled. I have to post pictures of others in the future.

Best wishes to all for a Happy New Year!

Regards,
Jim


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## Rick N (Dec 30, 2008)

Hey Jim, thanks! Believe me...we have all had problems in the past building models. I will not be discouraged in building my Gemini 12. I can do well with my build-ups but can still make a mistake. In reworking the Jupiter 2 viewport to that of the Gemini 12 one must also cut the opening a bit wider as well as longer. The original filming miniatures were that way. I agree with you 100% about another Jupiter 2 development. An option to build it as either a Jupiter or Gemini would be great! Several years ago I had contacted Polar Lights, Lunar Models, Moebius, as well as a few others about offering a Gemini 12 kit. All said that they had no idea what the Gemini 12 was. Only Lunar Models knew what I was talking about. Jim Key of Custom Replicas would build one at a cost of about $1000,00. Rick.


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## falcon49xxxx (Aug 4, 2008)

Try some of the sites that do Stormtrooper Costums,and guys who have home made vacuum machines.You might find someone to do it,if you provide the buck.It does'nt hurt to ask.


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## JPhil123 (Jan 1, 1970)

Rick N said:


> Hey Jim, thanks! Believe me...we have all had problems in the past building models. I will not be discouraged in building my Gemini 12. I can do well with my build-ups but can still make a mistake. In reworking the Jupiter 2 viewport to that of the Gemini 12 one must also cut the opening a bit wider as well as longer. The original filming miniatures were that way. I agree with you 100% about another Jupiter 2 development. An option to build it as either a Jupiter or Gemini would be great! Several years ago I had contacted Polar Lights, Lunar Models, Moebius, as well as a few others about offering a Gemini 12 kit. All said that they had no idea what the Gemini 12 was. Only Lunar Models knew what I was talking about. Jim Key of Custom Replicas would build one at a cost of about $1000,00. Rick.


Hello...
I had made similar suggestions to the original Polar Lights company about a Gemini XII issued as a companion model to the Jupiter 2, but did not expect there would be any serious interest generated. I thought that the original Lunar Models had a Gemini XII in the works back in the 1980s (larger than the resin one they issued), but can't recall any specific details about it and admit I could be wrong.

I think the fact is that the Gemini XII, the Fuel Barge, some of the alien ships, and even some of the alien figures from "Lost In Space" are just considered too obscure by most model kit companies to be subjects for serious consideration as model kits. 

On the subject of your Gemini XII project, you are correct about the need to increase viewport width as well. Overall, I think conversion of a Jupiter 2 to an accurate Gemini XII is one tough project to tackle, but well worth it. I have a couple of 16 inch vacuform Jupiter 2 kits around, and was toying with the idea of converting one of them into a Gemini-style ship. First of all, the cutting would still be tricky, but easier. 

Please let us know how you make out...

Jim


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## NTRPRZ (Feb 23, 1999)

In constructing a Gemini 12, do you also plan to do an accurate upper deck?

Jeff


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## Robert Hargrave (Dec 4, 2003)

*spray foam*

Some where in a star trek post a guy was building his own Enterprise E, he cut pieces of plastic to form the general shape of the upper half of the saucer shaped hull and cemented them in place, then sprayed the voids with foam then sanded these down till he hit the cemented forms. If your not looking for an open floor for the lower level you could make a master hull form from a piece of metal or have one cut, then use this to make many plastic or resin cutouts, then cement them in place around the under side of the upper deck floor, then fill the voids with foam from a can and shape with a rasp and sand paper. On my jupiter 2 I cut .060 styrene sheet to fill the two voids in the floor of the upper deck to make it a solid ring. You could do this then have a solid base to build your frame work on for the lower level of the gemini 12. If you planned ahead you could leave voids for the landing gear bays by inserting a solid section of styrene on each side of the 3 bays and figuring out how to build a mounting system, could be done but this base is going to weight a couple of pounds so any landing gear would be for show and the ship wold need a base to rest on.


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## starseeker2 (Jun 13, 2008)

I'll see if I can find the model (don't ask) and take a picture. [Just moved into the digital age!] 
If I remember correctly, the Gemini 12's upper deck ended up being about 1/4" too tall, if converting from the PL kit. You may want to track down the blueprint that shows the Gemini 12 hull compared to the "new" 12' miniature. It was posted on a thread here somewhere. It worked out to be almost perfect (I thought) if you installed the roof of the upper deck from the Inside of the upper deck wall/hull unit and then sanded or ground away and filled the excess height. Strengthen the inside seam with epoxy. 
Yes, the viewports were wider as well as lower but were also taller, extending to the roof edge.


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## Rick N (Dec 30, 2008)

NTRPRZ said:


> In constructing a Gemini 12, do you also plan to do an accurate upper deck?
> 
> Jeff


Hi Jeff!, I plan on duplicating the original lighted scrim of the 4 foot Gemini. It was very different from that of the Jupiter 2. At some point in the future I will construct a full Gemini 12 interior with raised platform around the interior and food storage wall units. Rick N


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## Rick N (Dec 30, 2008)

Robert Hargrave said:


> Some where in a star trek post a guy was building his own Enterprise E, he cut pieces of plastic to form the general shape of the upper half of the saucer shaped hull and cemented them in place, then sprayed the voids with foam then sanded these down till he hit the cemented forms. If your not looking for an open floor for the lower level you could make a master hull form from a piece of metal or have one cut, then use this to make many plastic or resin cutouts, then cement them in place around the under side of the upper deck floor, then fill the voids with foam from a can and shape with a rasp and sand paper. On my jupiter 2 I cut .060 styrene sheet to fill the two voids in the floor of the upper deck to make it a solid ring. You could do this then have a solid base to build your frame work on for the lower level of the gemini 12. If you planned ahead you could leave voids for the landing gear bays by inserting a solid section of styrene on each side of the 3 bays and figuring out how to build a mounting system, could be done but this base is going to weight a couple of pounds so any landing gear would be for show and the ship wold need a base to rest on.


Hi Robert!, There will be no need for landing gear wells on my Gemini 12. The Gemini 12 never had landing legs. Rick N.


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## Rick N (Dec 30, 2008)

JPhil123 said:


> Hello...
> I had made similar suggestions to the original Polar Lights company about a Gemini XII issued as a companion model to the Jupiter 2, but did not expect there would be any serious interest generated. I thought that the original Lunar Models had a Gemini XII in the works back in the 1980s (larger than the resin one they issued), but can't recall any specific details about it and admit I could be wrong.
> 
> I think the fact is that the Gemini XII, the Fuel Barge, some of the alien ships, and even some of the alien figures from "Lost In Space" are just considered too obscure by most model kit companies to be subjects for serious consideration as model kits.
> ...


Hey Jim, You are very right about the converting of a Jupiter 2 to a Gemini as being a tough one, but in the end, I believe it will be worth it. I will have a miniature that I have always wanted. If you do have a Lunar Models Jupiter 2 kit or two, go for it! Not many Lost In Space fans can say that they have a Gemini xii. Rick N.


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## g_xii (Mar 20, 2002)

Rick N said:


> Hey Jim, You are very right about the converting of a Jupiter 2 to a Gemini as being a tough one, but in the end, I believe it will be worth it. I will have a miniature that I have always wanted. If you do have a Lunar Models Jupiter 2 kit or two, go for it! Not many Lost In Space fans can say that they have a Gemini xii. Rick N.


I got this far about five years ago on the original 16" vacuform J2/G12 from Lunar. It's still in exactly this shape today. VERY Thin vacuform. Flimsy, almost.

The interior is just that posterboard stuff with a bit of styrofoam sandwiched in-between, making it about 1/4" thick, which is just thick enough to stand on it's own after the glue has dried. Easy to cut, too! I mocked it up in about five minutes just to get an idea how it was progressing, and was not very happy with it so shelved it. And it's still shelved!

The fusion core is actually from a 2' lunar models. As you can see, it's just a bit too large for it. The lower hull, however, is a lot closer to a G12 than any other J2 kit I've ever seen. One of these days, I'll finish it...

--Henry


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

Rick,
I don't know how I missed this thread, but I already addressed the hull construction question, albeit using cardstock. The central idea, however, can easily be extended to any sheet material. I even posted the diagram and equation to use, to figure the circle radii and cutout angles. I believe it was in the Moebius section, but I'm not certain- search HT for "J2" and "Jupiter 2".

Also, the G12 viewport is the *same* width as the J2. It must be; it extends between two of the radial support walls(the ones with the lights on the edge,) which are 45 degrees apart on _both_ ships.


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## Rick N (Dec 30, 2008)

g_xii said:


> I got this far about five years ago on the original 16" vacuform J2/G12 from Lunar. It's still in exactly this shape today. VERY Thin vacuform. Flimsy, almost.
> 
> The interior is just that posterboard stuff with a bit of styrofoam sandwiched in-between, making it about 1/4" thick, which is just thick enough to stand on it's own after the glue has dried. Easy to cut, too! I mocked it up in about five minutes just to get an idea how it was progressing, and was not very happy with it so shelved it. And it's still shelved!
> 
> ...


Hi Henry, I thank you for showing us your model. I think it looks good and hope you do get to finish it. Yes, the fusion core you have used does look a bit too large. You may have to scratch build that as well. Thats what I will be doing for my Polar Lights conversion. I have a feeling that creating my own fusion core will turn out to be a bit of a pain but I am going to give it a try. Rick N :wave:


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## Rick N (Dec 30, 2008)

toyroy said:


> Rick,
> I don't know how I missed this thread, but I already addressed the hull construction question, albeit using cardstock. The central idea, however, can easily be extended to any sheet material. I even posted the diagram and equation to use, to figure the circle radii and cutout angles. I believe it was in the Moebius section, but I'm not certain- search HT for "J2" and "Jupiter 2".
> 
> Also, the G12 viewport is the *same* width as the J2. It must be; it extends between two of the radial support walls(the ones with the lights on the edge,) which are 45 degrees apart on _both_ ships.


Hi toyroy!, Thanks again for your helpful information. I will go back and look for your posting. I have not only picked up several sheets of styrene but i also picked up several poster board sheets. I will try using the poster board first. Once I know what I am doing and get the proper sizes cut, I will start using the plastic sheets for final hull building. As fot the Gemini viewport being the same width as the one on the Jupiter 2...it was on the full size set, but not on the filming miniatures. The viewports on both the 12 inch and 4 foot gemini xii were a bit wider as well as longer. I will be trying to reproduce the 12 inch miniature. I have been spending the last several days checking photos and film clips to get what I hope will be accurate measurments of the viewport as well as the fusion core. On Monday, I will start to scratch build the fusion core first...i know it will be a pain . I am not looking forward to the cutting of all the little windows, or cut-outs and i plan on making the little fins out of sheet metal. Rick N :wave:


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## Ron Gross (Jan 2, 2009)

I agree with Rick regarding the viewport size on the G12 filming miniatures. While it would have been technically correct for the width to have been the same as the J2 for proper interior reconciliation, I doubt that IA and his staff were really all that concerned about continuity. Rather, it is my belief that they simply decided to go for a certain "look" instead. They also had no idea that people like us would be picking this stuff apart decades later. Likewise, my research many years ago revealed that the viewport width on the hero J2 was slightly less than what would be truly necessary to match the full scale interior framework.


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

Rick,

Make your model as you like it, of course! If your object is to replicate the 12" G12 _prop_, then, as Ron says, continuity be damned! 

I haven't watched No Place to Hide to check this, but I can't recall offhand any SFX footage which can precisely establish the width of the G12 viewport. At least, nothing like later series footage, which showed the J2 hero in full frontal view. In the absence of such footage, I would argue that continuity with the known internal structure is implied.

Again, I understand that the foregoing is not applicable to prop replication. :thumbsup:


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## Rick N (Dec 30, 2008)

Ron Gross said:


> I agree with Rick regarding the viewport size on the G12 filming miniatures. While it would have been technically correct for the width to have been the same as the J2 for proper interior reconciliation, I doubt that IA and his staff were really all that concerned about continuity. Rather, it is my belief that they simply decided to go for a certain "look" instead. They also had no idea that people like us would be picking this stuff apart decades later. Likewise, my research many years ago revealed that the viewport width on the hero J2 was slightly less than what would be truly necessary to match the full scale interior framework.


Hi Ron, You are so right about Irwin Allen and crew not being concerned about continuity. I really believe it was all about "look". It was the 1960`s and peoples mind set really was different then it is today. I had read some time ago that the "powers" at 20th Century Fox had said that the general public would never be interested in a model of the Jupiter 2. How wrong they were! Rick N :wave:


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## Rick N (Dec 30, 2008)

toyroy said:


> Rick,
> 
> Make your model as you like it, of course! If your object is to replicate the 12" G12 _prop_, then, as Ron says, continuity be damned!
> 
> ...


Hi toyroy, If you, or anyone else is interested in seeing a good head on shot of the 12 inch Gemini xii, go to www.uncleodies.com for hundreds of photos of the Jupiter 2 and Gemini miniatures. The best frontal images of the 12 inch filming miniature would be from Wish Upon A Star, just as Bill Mumy starts to pick up the ship sitting on a rock. Another good shot is from The Derelict. As the Jupiter 2 enters the alien ship we can see a good front shot of the little Gemini xii. In both images, note how wide but short the viewport is. This miniature had it`s viewport altered to look more like the Jupiter 2, but the width was unchanged. Rick N. :wave:


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## starseeker2 (Jun 13, 2008)

A couple shots of what survives of the 4' G12:


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## Rick N (Dec 30, 2008)

starseeker2 said:


> A couple shots of what survives of the 4' G12:


Hi starseeker!, Thanks so much for posting the pictures of the 4 foot Gemini xii. I had seen these before several years back. The third picture for some reason has the miniature looking like one side has been damaged but it has not. I am not sure why it looks like that in the pic. but it is in great shape...from what I have been told. It is a shame that the original fusion core and dome are not with this miniature. Rick N. :wave:


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

Ron Gross said:


> I agree with Rick regarding the viewport size on the G12 filming miniatures. While it would have been technically correct for the width to have been the same as the J2 for proper interior reconciliation, I doubt that IA and his staff were really all that concerned about continuity. Rather, it is my belief that they simply decided to go for a certain "look" instead...





Rick N said:


> Hi Ron,
> You are so right about Irwin Allen and crew not being concerned about continuity. I really believe it was all about "look"...


I agree with your main point about IA's stress on looks, but I don't think that accounts for variations between the differently scaled SFX miniatures. Offhand, it appears the G12 hero had not only the correct width viewport(i.e., approximately 45 degrees,) but included the internal detail of the radial support walls adjacent to the cockpit.


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## Rick N (Dec 30, 2008)

Hi toyroy, You are right about that. It does not account for the variations between the miniatures. One of the differences between the 12 inch and the 4 foot Gemini that has always stood out in my mind was the fact that the 12 in. had a very rounded mid line, or waist of the ship and even the viewport frame lines were rounded...not sharp and crisp as was on the 4 footer. Also, the 4 footer had a lighted scrim that looked like a kind of grid. The 12 inch had a lighted interior but no scrim at all from what I can tell. Rick N.


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

Rick,
I read through this thread, and Paulbo and Starseeker are speaking of the same approach to fabricating the lower hull that I posted about in detail here. _Twice_. Both threads include pictures, drawings, and the math. Also, a simple method to counteract the stresses which tend to distort a conic section made from a flat sheet.

I intend to use the technique to build a lower hull for my PL J2 which is the same profile as Y3a's four-footer. This is slightly shallower than the Fox studio drawings, which, themselves, are shallower than the PL hull.

BTW, the same method is used to build the fusion core.


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## Rick N (Dec 30, 2008)

toyroy said:


> Rick,
> I read through this thread, and Paulbo and Starseeker are speaking of the same approach to fabricating the lower hull that I posted about in detail here. _Twice_. Both threads include pictures, drawings, and the math. Also, a simple method to counteract the stresses which tend to distort a conic section made from a flat sheet.
> 
> I intend to use the technique to build a lower hull for my PL J2 which is the same profile as Y3a's four-footer. This is slightly shallower than the Fox studio drawings, which, themselves, are shallower than the PL hull.
> ...


Hi toyroy, Again, thanks so much for your helpful information. I have read Paulbo and your information and will be following your approach in forming the lower hull section. I may do the same for the fusion core, but I do have another idea that I will try first. Right now i am working on cutting up bits of sheet metal for the fins. I am using sheet because both 4 foot Jupiter 2 fusion core fins as well as the one on the 10 footer were made of sheet metal. I am guessing the same was done for the Gemini miniatures. I wish you well on your modeling project. I am sure it will look great. Please post pictures if you can. I would be interested in seeing them. As for the Fox Studio blueprints, I do have quite a few of them myself. I value them as much as I do my 4 footer! They have taught me so much about the filming miniatures. Rick N. :wave:


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

Rick N said:


> ...Right now i am working on cutting up bits of sheet metal for the fins. I am using sheet because both 4 foot Jupiter 2 fusion core fins as well as the one on the 10 footer were made of sheet metal. I am guessing the same was done for the Gemini miniatures...


Ron,
This has been sharpened, in an attempt to bring out some of the core detail:

[IMG-LEFT]http://photos.hobbytalk.com/data/509/G12_fusion_core.jpg[/IMG-LEFT]













































There appears to be a ring above the radial fins, extending from the top of the core itself to the outer perimeter of the fins. Also, you can see how plain the underside of the core is, compared with the J2 core.

What I haven't figured yet, is how many "windows" there are on this core.


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## Seaview (Feb 18, 2004)

Probably about 30 to 32 panes on the Gemini XII fusion core. 
FWIW, Something I thought about while building my PL Jupiter II was that if ever I wanted to make a G XII version, I'd cannibalize a Lunar Models fusion core from the first edition 16" Jupiter II and add it to the PL kit.

With the remains of the 16" LM kit, I'd cut open the hatch on the top hull, slice off all but 1/2" of the rim around the lower hull, insert the flight deck and scratchbuild a ramp to create a crashsite diorama, complete with the hydroponic garden tables, drill rig, washing machine, lean-to, etc.


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

Seaview said:


> Probably about 30 to 32 panes on the Gemini XII fusion core...


There's 32 on the smaller J2 core(that is, 32 around the edge, and another 32 adjacent to them, on the bottom.)

Of course, it's possible the G12 also had 32, but they'd have to be larger. The Fox studio drawings I've seen show the J2 and G12 cores to be the same height; therefore, for the same number panes as the J2, the larger diameter G12 core must have disproportionately _wider_ panes.


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## Rick N (Dec 30, 2008)

toyroy said:


> There's 32 on the smaller J2 core(that is, 32 around the edge, and another 32 adjacent to them, on the bottom.)
> 
> Of course, it's possible the G12 also had 32, but they'd have to be larger. The Fox studio drawings I've seen show the J2 and G12 cores to be the same height; therefore, for the same number panes as the J2, the larger diameter G12 core must have disproportionately _wider_ panes.


Hi toyroy and all, I believe the Gemini xii did have 32 cut outs in the fusion core. I have tried counting them but it is hard to come by a clear shot of the core. By the way, thanks for posting that pic. of the Gemini on the launch tower. I did know that the bottom of it was plain, not with the ribs the Jupiter 2 had. Also the cut outs on that bottom were about half the size in length then that of the Jupiter. The Jupiter 2 studio miniatures also had a 6 light pattern in the cores. I believe the Gemini had more then that...perhaps 8 lights. Rick N :wave:


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

*My Gemini XII*

Here is my build of aa PL jupiter II into the Gemini XII. I also prefer the look of the GXII. It looked great in Red Rock Canyon for the crash sequence.


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## Gemini1999 (Sep 25, 2008)

RSN said:


> Here is my build of aa PL jupiter II into the Gemini XII. I also prefer the look of the GXII. It looked great in Red Rock Canyon for the crash sequence.


That looks really great! I've only got one small comment - the Gemini 12's floor has two different levels to it. The darker area that surrounds the interior of the ship is slightly elevated by 3-4 inches. Here's a pic I found:










When LiS was picked up as a series, it seems that the set was changed to have a completely flat floor with contrasting colors.

I think that this is the first time I've seen someone even come close to re-creating the Gemini 12 as a scale model. Very cool!

Bryan


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

Thanks Bryan, I am glad you liked it. It was fun to research and build. I only had to "make up" one section that was never filmed, or built, at the very rear. You are right about the step up from the astrogator area. I did incorporate it in, but my scaling was off. It is only about a 1/16th of an inch drop. Scaled, it should have been at least twice that, with a "toe kick"effect to add more shadow to it. I will probably correct it some day, but for now I am ok with it.

Ron


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Just to back up earlier estimates on the window count:










This is from a screen capture of the G12 on the launch pad. Using an ellipse selection tool to insure a perfect ellipse, the floor of the fusion core was cut out to include the partial opening of the windows just inside the edge of the bottom section. 

Using PSP, I stretched out the ellipse to create a perfect circle from it and then marked the window frames. The method is a little rough but it looks definitive--32 windows total.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

RSN said:


> Thanks Bryan, I am glad you liked it. It was fun to research and build. I only had to "make up" one section that was never filmed, or built, at the very rear.


I was wondering about that. I was thinking maybe that there was one less section in the G12 than the J2 but never went beyond that in researching. I like your solution. 

A door in the bulkhead and/or a hatch in the deck there would also be a "logical" (as if that matters in the IA world) addition to such a section. BTW: Was there a standard J2 type door on the G12?


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

No, the GXII had no doors, they were designed for the J2. The GXII didn't even have a "working" hatch, it was either closed or the panel was removed when open.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

RSN said:


> No, the GXII had no doors, they were designed for the J2. The GXII didn't even have a "working" hatch, it was either closed or the panel was removed when open.


Thanks! Good info.

Another one:

Was the main hatch on the Gemini 12 also the ramp or was it a separate piece?


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

Good question. It would make sense that the door would fold down to make a ramp, but due to the compound curve of the hull, it would not work for the GXII. The ramp is clearly flat in the pilot. It was either stored in the ship or they went "Ramps R Us" to get one.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

There appear to be fold down flaps on the side of the ramp as well conveniently covering the 2X4 support structure. 

The masonite sides of the ship look fairly flat but you're right--there have to be some curvature in them making a theoretical fold down ramp/door impractical.


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

The shape of the ramp certainly suggests the hatch. There was an extending platform just under the hatch on the J2, which was seen in the first two series episodes. Hinged to that extension, the hatch could have folded down.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

It's theoretically possible that the ramp/hatch was flat on the inside and curved on the outside.


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

As you can see, from the inside, no flat, black ramp. I thought possibly the black ramp up might have been used, but in the pilot, Mauren is cearly seen walking up a ramp inside and then down the one outside. Plus they don't quite match in size and proportion. Another Irwin Allenizm!


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

RSN said:


> As you can see, from the inside, no flat, black ramp...


Thanks, for posting the picture! I was looking for it, as I couldn't recall whether the lever was on the hatch, or next to it. However, the inside of the hatch appears flat to me. Also, in one of the chariot loading stills, you can see the bottom of the hatch is right at the hull edge, where the upper and lower hull meet. With the ramp extension I mentioned, the hatch could concievably hinge at the bottom, and even project the ramp sides, which could likewise be hinged.

I'm _not_ saying this was Creber's design. I flat don't know what he had in mind.


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

PerfesserCoffee said:


> It's theoretically possible that the ramp/hatch was flat on the inside and curved on the outside.


Yes, and the photo of the G12 hatch inside seems to confirm that. You'd still need the ramp extension I spoke of, to provide a hinge line, and prevent interference of the curved exterior surfaces.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

toyroy said:


> Yes, and the photo of the G12 hatch inside seems to confirm that. You'd still need the ramp extension I spoke of, to provide a hinge line, and prevent interference of the curved exterior surfaces.


Yes, I understand what you're saying: it's a workable possibility though it may not have been what was intended. It seems to be the best solution though it might have been awkward to film it that way. 

Hey--maybe the black surface of the ramp is a rubber mat 

I just wonder, if it were a lot of trouble to close the hatch (whatever the intended design was) what would they have done during a rain storm or, for that matter, during an alien monster attack?


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

PerfesserCoffee said:


> ...I just wonder, if it were a lot of trouble to close the hatch (whatever the intended design was) what would they have done during a rain storm or, for that matter, during an alien monster attack?


No lock on the ignition, either. Isn't that how they got stranded, when the junkman foreclosed the ship?


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

Like the Jupiter 2, the Gemini 12's interior wasn't quite consistent with it's exterior. Meaning there's no way of making a perfectly "accurate" model of the thing if you're planning an interior. These are from the Fox blues for the pilot of "Space Family Robinson".


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

starseeker said:


> Like the Jupiter 2, the Gemini 12's interior wasn't quite consistent with it's exterior. Meaning there's no way of making a perfectly "accurate" model of the thing if you're planning an interior. These are from the Fox blues for the pilot of "Space Family Robinson".


Well, you went and ruined a perfectly good speculative discussion by introducing a lot of FACTS, didn't you? 

Seriously, thanks for the info! Those diagrams pretty much answer the questions regarding the ramp for the set piece, anyways. :thumbsup:


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

PerfesserCoffee said:


> Well, you went and ruined a perfectly good speculative discussion by introducing a lot of FACTS, didn't you?


Not at all, there's still lots of room for speculation. Rats, I cut off the words in the bottom left corner of attach 2. They say "Wild hatch cover... interior finish only". So that means the full size G12 didn't have a sliding hatch, only a cheat wild hatch in its place. So how would an operating hatch on the G12 work and if you didn't have that straight extension cheat at the bottom of the hatch for the ramp to meet squarely, how could a real ramp work? (As far as the ramp goes, I prefer the idea of the Robinsons having cobbled something together and placed the flat portion of it on top of the under-hatch extend-able porch step. Either that or smoothed rubble. That they had a pre-made ramp that just happened to extend perfectly to the ground after their unexpected crash... well, I'm assuming the crash was unexpected and that wasn't the way they were supposed to land?...)


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

starseeker said:


> Not at all, there's still lots of room for speculation.


Plenty of room for theorizing, yes. I was just kidding around about that anyways--I'm very apt to go off speculating sometimes without bothering to do any research. 

I think you're right about the wild hatch. It doesn't really explain enough.

It would have been much more effective, IMHO, if an actual hinged hatch of the same shape as implied by the doorway had been there showing some NASA like detail on the inside.


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

What amazes me is the level of detail we did get, from Mr. Allen, for a prop that was to be all but discarded following the pilot. If you have seen "No Place to Hide" in it's original form (it is in the 1st season dvd set), at the end they have abandoned the Gemini XII, crossed the ocean and landed in a more habitable, tropic, climate. The Chariot was to be the main vehicle for getting them around. I am sure Irwin planned on returning to the ship at some point, but that was not to be the center piece of the show as it was orignally conceived.


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## Gemini1999 (Sep 25, 2008)

I just love fans driving themselves over the edge trying to reconcile inconsistencies with props from 1960's SciFi TV. It's a fair guess that they never intended people to look so closely at their props and try to make sense of them.

When you look at the design of the Gemini VII or the Jupiter 2, it's one of the most impractical, yet attractive designs for a spacefaring vessel given it's vintage. We all know that there's no way everything will fit in a practical sense, yet we keep trying....

That being said, I still love what people come up with anyways.

Bryan


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## B-9 (Jun 8, 2009)

Has anyone worked on a Gemini XII recently or has everyone given up because of the 18 inch J-2? Has anyone made a Gemini XII out of the 18 inch J-2?! Just wondering if anyone is still interested in the project. I was looking at the pilot this evening and that reminded me of it.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Still interested but I've been very busy doing other stuff for the last 2 years.


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

My masters for a 24" G12 have been in their boxes, waiting for me to pour plaster (or whatever) over them for at least six months, as you can tell by the spiderwebs, dust, and debris. September was like winter here, October has been like summer, giving me a chance to finish other projects. With luck I'll get started on the G12s, J2s, Spindrift, FS, Invaders, etc in a week or so. Since it's about to be winter here again, for real, if I ever hope to get these done I'm going to have to do them indoors. Which means hulls of poly resin, instead of the epoxy which I really wanted to use.


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## B-9 (Jun 8, 2009)

Great, good to know it's still alive! Thanks for the photo.


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## Chuck Eds (Jul 20, 2009)

I've been thinking about using the extra Moebius fusion core to do a GXII build-up, if I remember correctly it would have about 14-15" diameter. I've only gotten as far as making a few measurements so far.

I've done some home vacuuforming and it's not that hard. I basically made a wooden box with a pegboard top, cut a hole in the side for my shop-vac to fit into and made a metal rack for the sheet plastic that fits into the oven. There's a little trial and error involved in heating the plastic just right, other than that it's worked pretty well.

Modern Plastics has totally hooked me up a few times, just ordered four sheets 4x8 .040" about a month ago. About $25/ sheet + shipping, they don't stock all thicknesses but they can order from their place in RI.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Chuck Eds said:


> I've been thinking about using the extra Moebius fusion core to do a GXII build-up . . .


BRILLIANT! (If the measurements work out close :thumbsup: )


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## B-9 (Jun 8, 2009)

Chuck Eds said:


> I've been thinking about using the extra Moebius fusion core to do a GXII build-up
> Modern Plastics ... they don't stock all thicknesses but they can order from their place in RI.


If you didn't use the fusion core with fins for your J-2 you're all set.
I wonder where the "place in RI" is? I live in RI. Hmmm.


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## Paulbo (Sep 16, 2004)

B-9 said:


> I wonder where the "place in RI" is?


It's Modern Plastics on Post Road in Warwick. Good people to work with and buying sheet plastic from them is FAR cheaper than at the LHS ... though you have to buy full 4x8 foot sheets. 

Last time I picked up a sheet of 1/16" stock they cut it to 1x1 foot and 2x2 foot sheets at no extra charge. The pieces are not exact in sizing - if you want them to take their time and measure it accurately, they add an upcharge.


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## JPhil123 (Jan 1, 1970)

RSN said:


> What amazes me is the level of detail we did get, from Mr. Allen, for a prop that was to be all but discarded following the pilot. If you have seen "No Place to Hide" in it's original form (it is in the 1st season dvd set), at the end they have abandoned the Gemini XII, crossed the ocean and landed in a more habitable, tropic, climate. The Chariot was to be the main vehicle for getting them around. I am sure Irwin planned on returning to the ship at some point, but that was not to be the center piece of the show as it was orignally conceived.


Hello,

A return to the Gemini XII might very well have been planned for a "future" episode, but the fact is we'll never know why such detail was really made in the prop and set. It could have also been done intentionally because, as was usually the case in Irwin Allen productions, they may have planned to merely re-dress prop and set for other use in other shows when the script required it; the Gemini XII and the set might have turned up disguised in "Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea", or portions of it. Maybe there was an episode of "Lost In Space" planned where the Robinsons would have located an earlier wreck (Gemini XI, an exploration mission only), or perhaps the crew of later Gemini flight that was also lost.

Jim


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## B-9 (Jun 8, 2009)

Paulbo said:


> It's Modern Plastics on Post Road in Warwick. Good people to work with and buying sheet plastic from them is FAR cheaper than at the LHS ... though you have to buy full 4x8 foot sheets.


Thanks Paulbo, I know where Post Rd. is. I never knew they were there. You da man!


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## Chuck Eds (Jul 20, 2009)

Actually both of the Moebius cores have fins, one of them they stick out further, I plan to use the short fins for any future GXII. (close enough!)

Either way having a nice ready made core makes the prospect of scratchbuilding a GXII a lot easier! Referencing the LIS Tech Manual & Saucer Fleet book drawings, a GXII w/ Moebius core would have a 14" diameter.

Getting the 4x8' .040" sheet styrene was one of the best things I did for modeling, I use that stuff for everything! For you guys in eastern MA they are located in Peabody...


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## Seaview (Feb 18, 2004)

I started on a PL J-2 "Gemini XII Conversion" last night using a spare Moebius fusion core, which gives the optical illusion of "flattening out" the bottom portion of the lower hull. I removed the fins using sprue-cutters.
Thanks for the inspiration, Chuck (et al); I think it's gonna be a beauty!


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

Seaview said:


> I started on a PL J-2 "Gemini XII Conversion" last night using a spare Moebius fusion core, which gives the optical illusion of "flattening out" the bottom portion of the lower hull. I removed the fins using sprue-cutters.
> Thanks for the inspiration, Chuck (et al); I think it's gonna be a beauty!


I was pleased with that effect when I made mine a few years ago. I had to scratch build my fusion core!


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## Seaview (Feb 18, 2004)

A fine job, RSN! Regarding the viewport frame, did you merely remove the window sills, or did you cut more away?


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

Seaview said:


> A fine job, RSN! Regarding the viewport frame, did you merely remove the window sills, or did you cut more away?


Thank you Seaview! I cut it wider and lower to get the proportions looking right. This had the adverse effect of making the viewport wider than 1/8 of the hull. I then needed to "fudge" the all new interior I made, making each section slightly smaller, starting from the window and working my way back. The final section opposite the viewport would be the smallest, and luckily the only one not seen in the pilot. I was able to use "artistic license" for the detail!


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## Captain Han Solo (Apr 5, 2002)

It's a shame we can't get measurements from the original Miniature..

It is in Private hands now,Hopefully it will make an appearence sometime in the future..Kinda like the Bladerunner Prop Gun.

All the "experts" Thought it was long gone or stolen, or in a Shoebox at Harrison Ford's House LOL!
It finally turned up, and the owner allowed Reference Pics to be taken

I know a couple guys managed to get the measurements of (Gemini XII ), and have actualy seen it, but In our little community of model builders we have the usual "I know, but you don't know" crowd..Nerds with a sense of power I guess..LOL!!! 

Like the Hull of the Seaview, the contours are Not easy to get exact. (The Lubliner 24" is perfect, next would be the Little Moebius Seaview)

But good luck to you guys who are doing it:thumbsup:


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## Chuck Eds (Jul 20, 2009)

I think the Saucer Fleet guys did a good job for not having access to the original, so I'm using that for my main reference.

BP - It's also like the guy who has the 10 foot Jupiter II, the one picture I've ever seen looks like he keeps it in his barn!


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## kimba32003 (Dec 17, 2008)

Chuck Eds said:


> I think the Saucer Fleet guys did a good job for not having access to the original, so I'm using that for my main reference.
> 
> BP - It's also like the guy who has the 10 foot Jupiter II, the one picture I've ever seen looks like he keeps it in his barn!


Hi Guys
I've searched many times for this "elusive" and "legendary" 10ft Jupiter 2 over the years but have never come up with anything...... Does anyone know of a pic, a story, a link or something that can lend validity to it's existence ??
I'm really curious and would certainly love to see such a picture (s) if any exists.:wave:
Cheers
Wayne


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## g_xii (Mar 20, 2002)

kimba32003 said:


> Hi Guys
> I've searched many times for this "elusive" and "legendary" 10ft Jupiter 2 over the years but have never come up with anything...... Does anyone know of a pic, a story, a link or something that can lend validity to it's existence ??
> I'm really curious and would certainly love to see such a picture (s) if any exists.:wave:
> Cheers
> Wayne


This comes up pretty often -- this is the only photo I've ever seen of it.

--Henry


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

kimba32003 said:


> Hi Guys
> I've searched many times for this "elusive" and "legendary" 10ft Jupiter 2 over the years but have never come up with anything...... Does anyone know of a pic, a story, a link or something that can lend validity to it's existence ??
> I'm really curious and would certainly love to see such a picture (s) if any exists.:wave:
> Cheers
> Wayne


Here she is, the only known photo of her.


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## kimba32003 (Dec 17, 2008)

g_xii said:


> This comes up pretty often -- this is the only photo I've ever seen of it.
> 
> --Henry


Thanks henry
I HAVE seen this pic many times but I've never seen any accompanying text to indicate that it's a 10ft model. On closer inspection I can see that it's quite sizeable and if that shadow is of a person standing nearby, just out of frame, then yes, I could see that it could well be 10ft in diameter.

Thanks for that Henry !

Wayne


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## g_xii (Mar 20, 2002)

kimba32003 said:


> Thanks henry
> I HAVE seen this pic many times but I've never seen any accompanying text to indicate that it's a 10ft model. On closer inspection I can see that it's quite sizeable and if that shadow is of a person standing nearby, just out of frame, then yes, I could see that it could well be 10ft in diameter.
> 
> Thanks for that Henry !
> ...


Hi Wayne --

Yeah -- who knows (without something for scale) what the size really is of the ship in that photo. But with the shadow of the person, and what I'm assuming are 4x8 sheets of wood standing behind it, it's not hard to believe that this probably is the 10' version of the ship. I know it's the only photo I've ever seen "claiming" to be the 10' version, anyway! And I have no idea who took the photo or where I got it. I just file that stuff away on the hard drive for future reference...

At least you got some quick responses if nothing else!

--Henry


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## kimba32003 (Dec 17, 2008)

g_xii said:


> Hi Wayne --
> 
> Yeah -- who knows (without something for scale) what the size really is of the ship in that photo. But with the shadow of the person, and what I'm assuming are 4x8 sheets of wood standing behind it, it's not hard to believe that this probably is the 10' version of the ship. I know it's the only photo I've ever seen "claiming" to be the 10' version, anyway! And I have no idea who took the photo or where I got it. I just file that stuff away on the hard drive for future reference...
> 
> ...


Quick responses indeed Henry, thanks for that. I just found a larger, clearer pic of it too at a yahoo fan site that does actually title it as "10 footer"..

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Losti...ode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc

The picture is nice and clear and slightly larger than the one you posted... enjoy !









Wayne


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## g_xii (Mar 20, 2002)

kimba32003 said:


> Quick responses indeed Henry, thanks for that. I just found a larger, clearer pic of it too at a yahoo fan site that does actually title it as "10 footer"..
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Losti...ode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc
> 
> ...


Hi Wayne --

That photo over at Yahoo groups is only 480 x 343 in resolution, the one I posted is 825 x 591, which is almost twice as large. Click on the "attached thumbnail" pic (which will bring up an even larger photo in another window) and then click on the larger photo itself, which expands the photo to the true size, and then you'll see some good detail!

--Henry


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## kimba32003 (Dec 17, 2008)

g_xii said:


> Hi Wayne --
> 
> That photo over at Yahoo groups is only 480 x 343 in resolution, the one I posted is 825 x 591, which is almost twice as large. Click on the "attached thumbnail" pic (which will bring up an even larger photo in another window) and then click on the larger photo itself, which expands the photo to the true size, and then you'll see some good detail!
> 
> --Henry


ok, I gotcha.... I see what you mean ! such clarity !! but still saddens me... how could anyone possess this iconic, *RARE*, FANTASTIC, *AWESOME*model and allow it to come into such a state of disrepair ? and who knows how old this pic is and what has become of the model now ? :freak:  

Wayne


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## Chuck Eds (Jul 20, 2009)

Supposedly it "crashed" during filming and was never repaired. Despite it's condition, I believe the landing gear is still intact.

I first saw it on the old Jup2 website, and Mike had spoken with the then current owner who didn't seem too interested in sharing much about it...


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

Chuck Eds said:


> Supposedly it "crashed" during filming and was never repaired. Despite it's condition, I believe the landing gear is still intact.
> 
> I first saw it on the old Jup2 website, and Mike had spoken with the then current owner who didn't seem too interested in sharing much about it...


I don't buy the "crash" scenario. It is clearly the Jupiter II by the look of the porthole near where the door should be. All the crash footage was shot for the pilot using the Gemini XII. Why would they modify a broken model, adding the porthole? Perhaps it fell while filming, but I think I read on the site that first posted the photo that it was ultimately too heavy to do much with. The world may never know.............!


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

These seem to be just enlargements from the master photo, showing details. 
This thread
http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=252626&page=23
starting about page 23, has some discussion about the 10', including posts by our very own X15A2, the discoverer of the miniature.


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## B-9 (Jun 8, 2009)

I finally converted my Polar Lights J-2 into a G-12. It's not too exciting and there's certainly room for improvement. The fusion core doesn't even light up yet. I'll probably go back to again sometime when I feel more ambitious. It can be seen here:
http://martl.tripod.com/Gemini12/G12.html


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## oshkosh619 (Feb 24, 2009)

B-9 said:


> I finally converted my Polar Lights J-2 into a G-12. It's not too exciting and there's certainly room for improvement. The fusion core doesn't even light up yet. I'll probably go back to again sometime when I feel more ambitious. It can be seen here:
> http://martl.tripod.com/Gemini12/G12.html


Not too exciting? It's _*EXCELLENT!!*_ Very nice work converting the contour of the lower hull to the Gemini profile! Great work on the fusion core! You're too modest.... it's one sweet little G-XII! :thumbsup:


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

B-9 said:


> I finally converted my Polar Lights J-2 into a G-12. It's not too exciting and there's certainly room for improvement. The fusion core doesn't even light up yet. I'll probably go back to again sometime when I feel more ambitious. It can be seen here:
> http://martl.tripod.com/Gemini12/G12.html


WOW!!!!

Perfection itself!!! Congratulations on a job super well done!!!! You NAILED the profile and the interior looks great!

If you're unhappy with the view port, you can always leave the glass out since the special effects models usually don't have them.


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## JPhil123 (Jan 1, 1970)

PerfesserCoffee said:


> WOW!!!!
> 
> Perfection itself!!! Congratulations on a job super well done!!!! You NAILED the profile and the interior looks great!
> 
> If you're unhappy with the view port, you can always leave the glass out since the special effects models usually don't have them.



I love the Gemini XII and admire the results you achieved. With all the kitbashing that happens today by modelers, and because some do like the Gemini XII and prefer it over the Jupiter 2, I wonder if there would be any real value in someone making aftermarket pieces to convert a Moebius Jupiter 2 or a Polar Lights Jupiter 2 into a Gemini XII (say, for example, a properly sized Gemini XII window frame into which plastic would be fitted for larger viewports, an enlarged fusion core, and a partial lower hull replacement? Maybe even a scrim for the interior? Seems like there would still be much work involved, but it might be easier if there were aftermarket pieces. I suspect the answer is that some aftermarket Gemini XII conversion kits might sell, but probably not enough. Or, it would involve too much to tool and produce, and be too expensive. I know that I made several attempts on my own to remake a PL Jupiter 2 into a Gemini XII. I could never seem to get the view port right. I have not tried such a modification with the Moebius Jupiter 2.

Jim


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## kenlee (Feb 11, 2010)

JPhil123 said:


> I love the Gemini XII and admire the results you achieved. With all the kitbashing that happens today by modelers, and because some do like the Gemini XII and prefer it over the Jupiter 2, I wonder if there would be any real value in someone making aftermarket pieces to convert a Moebius Jupiter 2 or a Polar Lights Jupiter 2 into a Gemini XII (say, for example, a properly sized Gemini XII window frame into which plastic would be fitted for larger viewports, an enlarged fusion core, and a partial lower hull replacement? Maybe even a scrim for the interior? Seems like there would still be much work involved, but it might be easier if there were aftermarket pieces. I suspect the answer is that some aftermarket Gemini XII conversion kits might sell, but probably not enough. Or, it would involve too much to tool and produce, and be too expensive. I know that I made several attempts on my own to remake a PL Jupiter 2 into a Gemini XII. I could never seem to get the view port right. I have not tried such a modification with the Moebius Jupiter 2.
> 
> Jim


To me the window was the scariest part, I did mine by applying tape on either side and below the viewport and using a sharpie to black it out until it looked right based on photos and drawings, only then did I cut.
Here is a thread I started on converting a PL Jupiter 2 into a Gemini XII. I am doing a complete scratchbuilt interior and will incorporate ideas from the LIS Design book from ARA Press to fill in the "engine area" segment that was never detailed on the full size set. It hasn't been updated since june, I got stuck on scratchbuilding the fusion core lighting and having to scratch-build the freezing tubes but I am going to finish it soon.

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=325401


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## B-9 (Jun 8, 2009)

You guys are too kind, thank you. I really didn't expect any reaction whatsoever to this! Now I feel obligated to improve it a bit. My original intent was to give it the backlit frosted glass treatment behind the viewport (with no interior) and make a shutter lighting system like the 12.5 inch J-2 had for the fusion core. It's still possible I guess.
At least this old thread got revived!


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## Radiodugger (Sep 27, 2011)

Kenlee, you have done a WONDERFUL job! A+! 
Doug

WOW, B-9, you TOO! I didn't think this could be done! Yeah, I wonder how hard it would be for Moebius to retool an optional G-12 bottom and window templates for the existing model? I know, that might not be possible. I agree, though, there is a market..albeit small.

Ya know, B-9 and Kenlee, I saved those pages as web pages. That is a project for the future! 

Doug


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Radiodugger said:


> Ya know, B-9 and Kenlee, I saved those pages as web pages. That is a project for the future!


GREAT idea!!!:thumbsup:


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## B-9 (Jun 8, 2009)

I want to see photos of everyone's G-12! Kenlee - you should definitely continue with yours as it's really impressive so far.


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## Radiodugger (Sep 27, 2011)

I agree! I don't salivate often, but Kenlee, (and B-9) you guys rock with this project! I also want more, More, MORE!


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## B-9 (Jun 8, 2009)

Once I get caught up on other stuff I may build a gantry for it and add some interior lighting. That will be a good winter project. I was hoping for release of the Pod and Chariot kit to match the scale of the 18" Moebius J-2 but I haven't seen any sign of it yet.


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

B9, I love it! Them! Beautiful work! Please keep posting.


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## Radiodugger (Sep 27, 2011)

Hey guys! Any idea who did this? This is what I'm leaned towards doing:









Doug


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## kenlee (Feb 11, 2010)

Radiodugger said:


> Hey guys! Any idea who did this? This is what I'm leaned towards doing:
> 
> View attachment 142075
> 
> ...


That would be me, the gantry and towers were all scratch built. I even created custom decals for the towers, gantry and jeep. The jeep was a Testors diecast kit and the guards were Tamiya infantry with weapons modified to look like the laser rifles in the early episodes of the show.


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## B-9 (Jun 8, 2009)

kenlee said:


> That would be me, the gantry and towers were all scratch built.


That - is - sweet! Really nice.


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## Radiodugger (Sep 27, 2011)

Absolutely breathtaking! It all looks right! I like the detailing, the little elevator in back. Hey did you scratch-build the sides on those towers, kenlee, or did you use Plastruct Open Web Truss, Warren Style 2 pieces?

That was what I had before, when I attempted a dio on my Polar Lights J-2. The foreclosure happened, and everything went bye-bye. So, now we try the Moebius. When I have the funds saved, I'm getting Henry's Launch Gantry. 

Those towers would tip right over in real life. Some kind of outrigging should be attempted, although it goes outside canon. I want my elevator to work as well. Jim Key's Launch display appeared to have a working elevator,and that's what inspired me.

Man, the 1/35 scale stuff I have found for sale on the 'net is staggering! One thing at a time, I guess. Some sort of Alpha Control facility should be in the works as well. I need to research that, as the show never gave much detail, and the blueprints are really lacking. Onward! 

Doug


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## kenlee (Feb 11, 2010)

Radiodugger said:


> Absolutely breathtaking! It all looks right! I like the detailing, the little elevator in back. Hey did you scratch-build the sides on those towers, kenlee, or did you use Plastruct Open Web Truss, Warren Style 2 pieces?
> 
> That was what I had before, when I attempted a dio on my Polar Lights J-2. The foreclosure happened, and everything went bye-bye. So, now we try the Moebius. When I have the funds saved, I'm getting Henry's Launch Gantry.
> 
> ...


All of the towers were scratchbuilt using Evergreen .060, .080 and .100 strip stock. By the time I got to the third tower it occurred to me to use Evergreen rectangular tubing for the uprights as a way to hide the wiring for the tower lights. I tried to match them up as close as possible to the original towers structurally but departed from the original design with the elevator tower and the bases of all three towers. The launch cradle also departs somewhat from the original, but I justified all of the changes in my mind because this is the Jupiter 2, not the Gemini 12 that was depicted on the show. 
If you really think about it the Jupiter 2 would not have needed the launch cradle at all. It was demonstrated numerous times through out the series that it is completely capable of takeoff without any ground support equipment.


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## Radiodugger (Sep 27, 2011)

I like the idea of rectangular Evergreen tubing! It would solve the wiring problem! OK, I guess I'll start searching for parts! .060, .080 and .100 strip stock, gotcha! Thanks!


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

Tho' it isn't particularly clear, a copy of the gantry/tower blueprint is here:
http://s1004.photobucket.com/albums...tion=view&current=Gemini12GantryCorrected.jpg

That is still one of my favorite pieces of modelling ever, Kenlee.


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## Radiodugger (Sep 27, 2011)

I gotta thank you for that link, Starseeker! That is a heck of a collection of blueprints! I sure appreciate it! 

Doug


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