# Tips for Laying Copper Tape



## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

Hi Guys,
I just got done building the jigs I will need to begin routing an HO track. I'm going to experiment on a piece of scrap 2x4 MDF and build a small oval. I want to first try using copper tape and see how that works. I've already taken a few minutes to try to lay copper tape down along a curve and it wasn't easy. The tape doesn't really want to bend so I kind of ended up with the tape going around the curve in small straight sections.

My question is - what are some tips for laying copper tape?

Thanks...Joe


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## noddaz (Aug 6, 1999)

*Well.... You might have better...*

Joe, you might have better luck asking here:

http://www.slotcarillustrated.com/portal/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=27

Those guys are really into routed tracks...:thumbsup:

Good luck and spread what you learn...

Scott


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## f1nutz (Mar 26, 2007)

Hey Joe.
Tight corners are tough. I built a 32nd scale track and it was dificult to get the corners done without a few creases in the tape. I can't imagine what HO size corners would be like. Have you considered rail? I gave up on tape for HO when I tested and realised I had to use braid on all the pickups.


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## rodstrguy (Feb 14, 2002)

Two things, Tape doesn't like small radius and doesn't work with pick up shoes, just braid...


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

Hi Guys,
After testing a small section with copper tape, I pretty much figured that getting it around HO size curves wasn't going to happen. I was going to try it on this little test oval since there is no additional routing involved, but I guess I'll shelve that idea.

I also realize some types of chassis, specifically Aurora SuperMag types, have pickup shoe springs which are way too strong and rely on magnetic downforce to pull the chassis down and compress the springs. Without magnetic downforce, the front tires have no chance of resting on the track surface.

I've thought about rail, but wanted to go with something wider and which would cause less wear on pickup shoes. If you've ever used SuperMag type chassis, you know how quickly the shoes wear out. I also wanted to avoid having to worry about getting the height of the rail consistant. One thought was rail laid in nearly flush with copper tape over it. A low magnetic downforce and smooth tape.

In a perfect world, I'd go with raised braid. Which raises a question...

I read on one website (for 1/32nd routing) that you need to route the braid reliefs deep enough so that the braid is recessed. This was important because raised braid could get torn up by tires and gears. For hard pickup HO shoes, you'd need raised braid. So, the question becomes - will HO cars rip up raised braid?

Thanks...Joe


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

How about the solid round wire? A small diameter wire would have less downforce, and not wear the shoes like rail does.


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## TomH (Jan 17, 2006)

Grandcheapskate said:


> Hi Guys,
> I just got done building the jigs I will need to begin routing an HO track. I'm going to experiment on a piece of scrap 2x4 MDF and build a small oval. I want to first try using copper tape and see how that works. I've already taken a few minutes to try to lay copper tape down along a curve and it wasn't easy. The tape doesn't really want to bend so I kind of ended up with the tape going around the curve in small straight sections.
> 
> My question is - what are some tips for laying copper tape?
> ...


Don't know how wide your tape is, but I used a sissors and cut the width in half. Burnish the tape down with just about anything, bic pen, popsickle stick, whatever.
I also sanded the tape with 220 grit running the same direction as the cars run. My tape seemed to have a clear coating on it. Make sure that your pick up shoes are flat. I used a nail file to sand them and a tech block to check flatness. Sounds like a big deal, but you only have to do it once per car as there isn't any shoe wear. I also would spray wd-40 on a rag and wipe the tape if I havent raced on it in a while. Super smooth way to go.


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## neophytte (Sep 14, 2006)

Joe,

Come visit my site:

http://routedtrack.hobby-site.com/

Cheers

Richard


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

neophytte said:


> Joe,
> 
> Come visit my site:
> 
> ...


Richard,
I have visited your website a number of times. It's a great resource and well done.

If I was going to go with rail, your use of stiching wire seems like the optimum way to go. I think if I had to use rail, I would actually try to "double rail" it. I would put non-magnet rail in as normal (raised above the track surface), but also double up on the rail in the curves by also using magnetic rail laid flush with the track surface. This should give me no magnetic downforce on straights with some on the curves, though less than regular plastic track.

Joe


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

I had time over the past week to get back on this project. I routed a small oval on a 2x4 piece of MDF with the turns being 9" radius. I was then able to lay copper tape fairly easily by making the simpliest of tools.

I took a piece of scrap wood (only about 2" x 4", but could be any size) and drilled a hole in the center which is slightly wider than the tape. The tape I bought is 3/16" wide, so this hole was a little over 1/4". Then, I put two nails into the wood which would be used to ride in the slot. These nails are spaced evenly from the center hole and are the same distance from the center hole as the rail on standard track (about 1/4").

Now, drill a hole in the MDF on each side of the slot to allow the tape to pass through to the underside. Feed the tape through the hole in your new tool and through the MDF, sticking the end of the tape to the underside of the MDF.

Then just ride the tool around in the slot feeding the tape through the center hole. NOTE: you must remove the backing from the tape before it feeds through the center hole. The tape is actually pressed down as it passes through the hole in the tool - at least well enough to stay in place until you can go around afterward.

When you're done, the tape is laid down pretty good and the curves are fairly smooth.

I just did a rough job with a tool I made in 5 minutes, so it's not perfect. The thing I did notice is that the spacing of the nails from each other is critical. I believe they need to be as close as possible to each other to avoid the "elliptical effect" on the curves; this is where the tape on the outside of the curve gets closer to the slot and the inside tape gets further away. The distance from one tape to the other is the same, but it shifts relative to the slot.

I also need to use wider tape as this will make the tolerances less critical.

So how did it work? Some cars (all hard pickups) worked fairly well while others didn't make much contact. I think wider tape and better spacing of the (slot riding) nails will make a difference. I also would like to see if I can find a thicker tape - that should also help.

Total time to tape the 2x4 oval (one lane) was about 8 minutes. It also helps (a LOT) to have someone feed the tape to you as you are moving the tool around the slot - unless you have a tape dispenser.

Thanks...Joe


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## joegri (Feb 13, 2008)

hi grandcheapskate im watchin this story unfold and watchin with baited breath. howz the track commin?do u think tjets will work on the tape?i and others are goin ta school on you.will be watchin for more . if were that easy everybody would be doin it!!also i did see somewhere thata manhad found some thicker tape maybe from a stainedglass place or home alarm security tape just cant remember should of wrote it down.keep a goin.


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

Grandcheapskate said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> I also realize some types of chassis, specifically Aurora SuperMag types, have pickup shoe springs which are way too strong and rely on magnetic downforce to pull the chassis down and compress the springs. Without magnetic downforce, the front tires have no chance of resting on the track surface.
> 
> ...


I took a break today from building an ark and gathering up two of every animal. I went back for a while onto the copper tape test track.

One important consideration is that I used a 1/8" slot instead of a 1/16" slot. This is great for 1/43rd cars as they seem to like this track setup a lot. However, the 1/8" slot allows for a lot of side-to-side motion for an HO guide pin. So, using the 3/16" wide copper tape seems to be a mistake. If the slot is going to be wide, I'll need a wider tape to allow the car to maintain contact as it swims in the slot. HO cars are making contact, but are also losing contact (at times) in certain places; I think this is due to the thin tape and wide slot combination. Thin pickups, like on an HP-7, are not really working at all.

I think I have to re-lay the copper tape to get the tape to lay with a tigher tolerance around the curves, especially with the thinner tape. As I mentioned, the 5 minute tool I built to lay the tape causes the tape to go off-center (related to the slot) as you go around a curve. Narrowing the distance between the two pins/nails that ride in the slot should do the trick.

The tape is being snagged (pulled up on the edge) a little after only a few minutes. This could be because I really haven't set it down properly.

The big issue I see is with pickup spring tension and no magnetic downforce. As I mentioned earlier, some chassis depend on magnetic downforce to pull the front tires down onto the track. Without downforce, the front tires may not touch the track surface. This is the case I noticed with Tyco 440-X2s. While the car ran around the track, the front tires do not touch.

So, the question is: If you want to run on a non-magnetic track, what should you do to get the front tires on the track? I don't want to modify the pickup springs, so I'm thinking that some weight might have to be added to the front of the car. Maybe a heavier guide pin?

Thoughts?

Thanks...Joe


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## slotnewbie69 (Dec 3, 2008)

we have a routed mdf track,with copper tape,and we have a couple afx mt's with slide guides,and they run really well.but,i imagine you wouldn't want to convert all your ho cars.my suggestion is to rout the power rail slots and use a non magnetic wire for continuous rails.i know alot of guys out there use annealed rebar wire pressed into the slots,but that would give magnetic downforce,so why not try to find a non magnetic type of the same thing?more work with the router,but saves you having to modify your cars...


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

slotnewbie69 said:


> we have a routed mdf track,with copper tape,and we have a couple afx mt's with slide guides,and they run really well.but,i imagine you wouldn't want to convert all your ho cars.my suggestion is to rout the power rail slots and use a non magnetic wire for continuous rails.i know alot of guys out there use annealed rebar wire pressed into the slots,but that would give magnetic downforce,so why not try to find a non magnetic type of the same thing?more work with the router,but saves you having to modify your cars...


You are correct in that I do not wish to modify all my cars to change over to braided pickups. In fact, I'd like to make no modifications to them so that they are set to run on either magnetic or non-magnetic track.

Your suggestion to replace the copper tape with non-magnetic wire/rail would, I believe, make the situation even worse. Think about it. Copper tape lies almost flush with the surface of the MDF; it has almost no thickness. Any type of rail would stick above the surface of the MDF more than the tape; therefore, the pickup shoes would be resting on a higher surface and the front tires would be even higher off the ground. There is no downforce to pull down the chassis.

Without something to compress the pickup springs, whether that be added weight, magnetic downforce or decreasing spring strength, I'm guessing that the front tires on magnet cars will not touch the track if you simply set it down after removing the guide pin (or on a piece of track with no rail).

So, what does one do to run magnet cars on a non-magnetic surface?

Thanks...Joe


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## slotnewbie69 (Dec 3, 2008)

i really don't know,if you are determined to use a non magnetic conductor.my suggestion was to rout additional grooves for the rails,as is traditionally done when pressing in annealed rebar wire for continuous rail...surely if you could find a non magnetic wire,and pressed it in deeper,that would solve the problem?but then again there is the point of the stronger pickup springs depending on the magnetic downforce to compress them...got me stumped,i am afraid


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

Hey Joe,
I would recommend looking at Hilltop's track. He used electrician's fishing tape for his rails. It's way lower magnetic than rebar tie wire, and it's flat like a rail. The edges are rounded, so it's smoother than rail, and his sticks barely above the track surface. It's so smooth, and easy to do, I'm gonna have to try it myself.

Rich


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

Hi Rich,
Where can I find pictures of his track?

Also, have you run on his track? I'm curious as to whether it has enough downforce to pull the front wheels down to the track.

I've also checked out the following website of one of our fellow HT members and his use of stiching wire:
http://routedtrack.hobby-site.com/?file=construction.html

If you are interested in copper tape, look at this website:
http://www.findtape.com/shop/product.aspx?id=329&bc=F&setscreen=1&width=1004&height=0

If I am reading this correctly, the top side is copper (of course), but the bottom side is a conductive adhesive, which means you could (a) repair it easily by overlapping (b) put it over the rail on plastic track to create a continuous rail system (if you are so inclined).

Thanks...Joe


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## Hilltop Raceway (Feb 12, 2006)

Check your PM Joe...RM


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