# Lacquer over future?



## machgo (Feb 10, 2010)

This might be a dumb question, but I will be doing some decals over a flat lacquer paint surface. I want to gloss coat first for good decal adhesion and eliminate silvering, then dull coat after decals go on to seal them and give the parts a dull look.

Base paint is Mr. Color lacquer. I want to use future to gloss because right now I can't spray lacquer paints (lost my painting space and can't have the fumes...) But I can spray Future safely.

I would prefer either Mr. Color dull coat or Testors dull coat to seal the decals. Are either safe over Future? I'd do a test, but I can't use lacquers right now!

All work will be airbrushed.....thanks in advance!


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## rkoenn (Dec 18, 2007)

Can't you do rattle can spraying outside somewhere? I do all my rattle can work standing out in front of my garage. Of course I live in Florida. I only airbrush acrylics with a very infrequent alclad in my workshop as I don't have a vented booth yet. I would be careful though of lacquers over Future until I was sure it did or did not work.


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## machgo (Feb 10, 2010)

I'm in Chicago, so outdoors, especially now, is not so good.


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## ryoga (Oct 6, 2009)

I prefer lacquer better. Future tends to turn yellowish if there was any contamination on the surface.


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## dreadnaught726 (Feb 5, 2011)

Typically using lacquer over any acrylic is not a good idea; however, I have used both gloss coat and dull coat over Tamiya and Testors acrylics with no problem. Since I don't like using Future, except on clear parts, I can't attest to its compatibility with lacquers.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

I use Dullcoat over Future all the time. No problem.
I've never seen Future yellow, either.


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## ryoga (Oct 6, 2009)

John P said:


> I use Dullcoat over Future all the time. No problem.
> I've never seen Future yellow, either.


That's because you're doing it right


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## Disco58 (Apr 10, 2011)

Machgo -- Not a dumb question at all -- if you don't know you don't know, so... A dumb question might be, "What will happen if I drink Jack Daniels/Budweiser boilermakers all night"? But that would be seriously OT. To answer your question directly, yes, Future over lacquer, then flat lacquer over that works just fine. I've been back into modeling since about '95 and virtually all the aircraft and armor builders I know do just that, because there doesn't seem to be any acrylics that are 'flat' enough. 99% of the time Testors Dullcote is the one used (either from a bottle or rattle can). I've never used Mr. Color for anything so I can't say for sure, but I presume it would work as well.
I have to concur with John P. I've heard of Future yellowing once upon a time, but I also remember the poster saying his piece had been sittiing in direct summer sun for awhile, and it was over something white, so it was more apparent.
Dreadnaught -- sorry to disagree, but in virtually every article/tutorial I've read on figure painting using lacquer (Testors Dullcote or Mr. Color) has pretty much become the standard for use as a sealer over acrylics. Since you can't do washes over acrylics _with_ acrylics, what else would you use to seal it? You can do a wash with oils, but then an acrylic overcoat won't adhere well. Any acrylics painted over the lacquer can also be washed back off if you make a mistake, and not disturb the underlying coats.


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## dreadnaught726 (Feb 5, 2011)

Disco58, I never said you can't put lacquer over acrylics in fact I seal my acrylic painted figures with gloss/dull coat all the time. As for not being able to do a wash with acrylics, Huh? I do that all the time with no problem.


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## machgo (Feb 10, 2010)

Appreciate the help guys, thanks!


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## Disco58 (Apr 10, 2011)

dreadnaught726 said:


> Disco58, I never said you can't put lacquer over acrylics in fact I seal my acrylic painted figures with gloss/dull coat all the time. As for not being able to do a wash with acrylics, Huh? I do that all the time with no problem.


Hmm, I musta misundertook you, sorry. How do you do a wash with acrylics directly over acrylics without it eating into/dissolving the underlying paint? I've tried it, and in doing the after wash cleanup it has badly smeared everything and forced me to strip and start over. The lacquer seal coat has prevented that aggravation. I use artist's tube and craft paint. Ideas? You have my attention.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

I've never seen acrylics softened by subsequent coats of acrylic, or by water washes - but I admit I hardly ever use acrylics.


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## dreadnaught726 (Feb 5, 2011)

As long as you use water as a thinner there should be no problem. What I do is add a very tiny, and I mean tiny, drop of dish detergent to the mix which helps break down the surface tension of the water and allows the wash to distribute and settle in to crevices.


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## myboy (Nov 30, 2011)

I have to concur with John P. I've heard of Future yellowing once upon a time, but I also remember the poster saying his piece had been sittiing in direct summer sun for awhile, and it was over something white, so it was more apparent.


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## dreadnaught726 (Feb 5, 2011)

When using acrylics for a wash,I always use them over a flat not gloss surface which should be the case with all washes.


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## Dyonisis (Nov 11, 2009)

Here's my two cents worth as your milage may vary: 

I've used lacquer over vinyl sanding sealer, but NEVER use lacquer over anything else! It eats all other types of paints that are softer base than it is. Acrylic is easier, and safer to use, but it has a tendency to be more satin than superflat. There is a paint that you can buy, from WWW.TPCGLOBAL.COM but it's expensive. It's worth it if you paint models with it all the time. I only use acrylics for weathering - easier to clean if you make a mistake. I suggest using it on a practice piece before ruining your model not knowing how it will work on soft plastic. You'd have to seal it with lacquer, then apply your decals. Try the superflat on old decals, or cheap ones that you can make before deciding if this is what you need. I've used just about every paint you can name, but you always want to check compatibility BEFORE spraying your model with it! The flat clear in spray cans works just fine for me (Rustoleum/Krylon). :thumbsup:


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## Panzer Madness (Jan 27, 2010)

myboy said:


> I have to concur with John P. I've heard of Future yellowing once upon a time, but I also remember the poster saying his piece had been sittiing in direct summer sun for awhile, and it was over something white, so it was more apparent.


Been modeling and using Future on my models since 1976 and it does yellow over time, (the lighter the base color underneath the easier one can tell). However I've seen some instances were it doesn't but those are the younger models. Has nothing to do with application and I don't change my habits so it's a 50/50 thing. 

Back in the day I use to dip my cock-pit canopy's in Future and as always they'd look beautiful for a few years and now pretty much all of them have a yellow tint to them. And yes, the longer it's in direct light the quicker it yellows. Even it's instructions tells you that one should strip the finish every 8 months or so, (and it's not only due to traffic wear on floors).

Either way in some instances it looks pretty nice as it darkens with age, (like wood finishes). Choose your finishing agent carefully. If you don't want to chance it, use a clear-coat specifically made for the paint brand.


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