# Moebius is NOT renewing BSG and Univeral Monsters licenses



## spock62 (Aug 13, 2003)

From CultTVMan: https://culttvman.com/main/upcoming-kit-releases/


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## Warspite (Aug 3, 2013)

spock62 said:


> From CultTVMan: https://culttvman.com/main/upcoming-kit-releases/


Well Frak Me, there goes my hope of a Cylon Basestar in 1:4105th scale.


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

I am not too surprised- Moebius has new owners who are trying to make a profit- expensive licensing agreements are an easy target.
Where Moebius goes from here is still unknown- the old guard developed kits which are on the shelves now, aside from the HAL kit we really do not know much about what the new guard has decided to devote their energies towards.
I suspect the NuTrek license will be allowed to expire also. The rebooted movies have ceased production, the Kelvin was priced out of the market and the next ship planned, the Jellyfish, is about as popular as the Kazon Torpedo.
My personal hope is that Moebius pick up a license for an older, less expensive show to produce new subjects from. There is a lot of potential out there that fans would love to see in mass production


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## Milton Fox Racing (May 27, 2014)

Warspite said:


> Well Frak Me, there goes my hope of a Cylon Basestar in 1:4105th scale.


I've never given a Fantasy Infraction before!


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## apls (Dec 5, 2005)

I believe they did a good job with the Universal license, but these licenses cost a lot, how do they plan to move forward?


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

Hard to tell, Moebius always played it's cards close to the vest, but the new owners are outright cryptic.
Common sense would say sacrifice the high dollar licenses and go for the fringe ones which do not cost nearly as much. Pegasus did pretty well with that strategy


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## Warspite (Aug 3, 2013)

It doesn't help that Universal decided to renegotiate the license right in the middle of development of the Raptor which is why it was delayed over a year. Frank had hinted there were more BSG kits coming but nothing happened before the sale of Moebius. Thing is Pegasus doesn't seem all that interested in science fiction relying on car kits instead. I guess that is it for the BSG kits.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Any word on the styrene Batgirl?


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## Buc (Jan 20, 1999)

ask Steve!!! Don't think he's been asked that yet this week!!


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## irishtrek (Sep 17, 2005)

Did they have any kits in development and if so will they be canned or finished???


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## Warspite (Aug 3, 2013)

irishtrek said:


> Did they have any kits in development and if so will they be canned or finished???


There were no announcments from Moebius concerning any new BSG kits before the sale to Pegasus, just a verbal hint from Frank at one of the shows. Pegasus hasn't mentioned any new kits from Moebius either. The Pegasus Hobbies Facebook page is only about R/C so that is no help. 

With Moebius (read Pegasus) not renewing the BSG license, I don't know if they can still sell the kits beyond the stock on hand. It will depend on how the license was set up.


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## f1steph (Jan 9, 2003)

How about getting the rights for Buck Roger's Starfighter...... That would be fantastic..... That would save me lots of scratchbuilt on my half-built Starfighter that I've purchased 15 years ago..... at a high price on Evil Bay..... RRRrrrrrr...


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## fortressAO (Sep 19, 2019)

I think moebius models is truly over there's no way anyone's going to convince me but they're going to pull out the amount of kits that they did in their heyday it would be wonderful if they surpassed moebius models old mantra but I just don't see it happening so if I were you modeler Stout there I will start collecting my moebius kits right now cuz when they get on evil Bay they're going to cost a small fortune....... all in all it was really a great ride while it lasted.

Moebius models will truly be missed and never forgotten.


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## fortressAO (Sep 19, 2019)

Also it was a tragic shame that moebius models did not produce a larger size Land of the Giants Spindrift I believe that was a true crime the in the era of model history.

It's right up there with the decision to not produce a model kit of the Lost in Space Jupiter 2 my Aurora models so many years ago because it was too plain


fortressAO


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## TAY666 (Jan 8, 2000)

fortressAO said:


> I think moebius models is truly over there's no way anyone's going to convince me but they're going to pull out the amount of kits that they did in their heyday it would be wonderful if they surpassed moebius models old mantra but I just don't see it happening so if I were you modeler Stout there I will start collecting my moebius kits right now cuz when they get on evil Bay they're going to cost a small fortune....... all in all it was really a great ride while it lasted.
> 
> Moebius models will truly be missed and never forgotten.


From the looks of the restocks Cult keeps getting, I'd say they are far from dead.
https://www.culttvmanshop.com/Restocks-in-the-CultTVman-Hobbyshop_ep_49-1.html
I see 11 kits restocked on the current page.

So, looks like Pegasus is putting the tooling to use. I figured they just needed time to assimilate their purchase and get the supply chain worked out.


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## spock62 (Aug 13, 2003)

TAY666 said:


> From the looks of the restocks Cult keeps getting, I'd say they are far from dead.
> https://www.culttvmanshop.com/Restocks-in-the-CultTVman-Hobbyshop_ep_49-1.html
> I see 11 kits restocked on the current page.
> 
> So, looks like Pegasus is putting the tooling to use. I figured they just needed time to assimilate their purchase and get the supply chain worked out.



Depends on the definition of "dead" in this case. The Discovery, Kelvin, and EVA Pod were all developed when Frank owned the company. These kits were probably far enough along that it made sense for Pegasus to move forward and release them. So far, the only new kit under Pegasus's ownership of Moebius is the HAL 9000 kit, which is little more than a plaque with a lens. This is not the Moebius that we all knew, a company that put out quite a few kits each year. As for Pegasus needing time to assimilate and get the supply chain worked out, I'd assume all that would have been done by now, it's been well over a year.


When the Pegasus deal was finalized, Frank, through the Moebius Facebook page, told us that Moebius would remain an independent company and nothing would change, that in fact, new kits were coming. Well, let's look at the facts:
A) Moebius website has only been updated with new owner info/address. The kit listings haven't, the Discovery/EVA Pod/HAL/Kelvin and Ford Pickup Truck have not been added.
B) The Moebius Facebook page/Twitter feed has been shut down. This was one of the primary ways Moebius reached out to their customers with info. Seems odd Pegasus, if they wanted Moebius to continue as is, would do this.
C) Pegasus has not produced one new kit since _before_ their purchase of Moebius.
D) Neither Pegasus or Moebius was represented at this years Wonderfest. Again, an odd choice if your planning on continuing either companies kit lines.
E) Moebius would have booths at various comic book/sci-fi shows. Don't believe this is still happening since Frank left.
F) No info about Moebius or Pegasus kits on the Pegasus Facebook, which is just about their R/C stuff.
G) Moebius has decided not to renew the following licenses, based on info from CultTVman and individuals on various forums: Universal Monsters, Battlestar Galactica, Star Trek and possibly '66 Batman. That's quite a lot of product to drop, no product to sell means no cash coming in.


Taken all together, no one can honestly say that things are looking good for Moebius. This company, when run by Frank, produced a wide varity of kits each year, and through their Facebook page and other means, would keep their customers up to date. We have the total opposite now. Based on all that has happened since Pegasus has taken over, you can't blame people for feeling that Moebius's days are numbered.


You know what would end all this speculation? If Pegasus would just let people know just what they're up to. A simple, "Hey guys, Moebius is still alive and we have great kits planned for the future and will let you know soon.", is all it would take. But, it seems that either a) Pegasus sucks at social media or b) except for some reissues, Moebius as we knew it is over.


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## irishtrek (Sep 17, 2005)

Just because Cult has restocked does not automatically mean Mobius is still going to be putting out new kits. More than likely Cult's suppler had a bunch in their warehouse waiting to be shipped to a hobby shop.


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## Ross Bailey (Sep 24, 2019)

irishtrek said:


> Just because Cult has restocked does not automatically mean Mobius is still going to be putting out new kits. More than likely Cult's suppler had a bunch in their warehouse waiting to be shipped to a hobby shop.


Just to chime in...I recently bought the Moebius LIS Robot, my first buy of the kit after a long financial dry spell. The printed production date on the interior of one of the body parts is 06/05/2019. And IIRC I bought the kit late July/Early August. So they've done a relatively recent production run on some of their kits. And that probably isn't ending as we have the re-release of the Movie Seaview coming up. To me it's welcome news as I missed several of these kits the first go-round. And it seems indicative that Pegasus will at least continue to exploit the Moebius tooling bank for a while yet. And I believe that, somewhere on the interwebs, Dave was stated a saying that the Pegasus purse strings are beginning to open up a bit. So maybe there's hope.


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## irishtrek (Sep 17, 2005)

Ross Bailey said:


> Just to chime in...I recently bought the Moebius LIS Robot, my first buy of the kit after a long financial dry spell. The printed production date on the interior of one of the body parts is 06/05/2019. And IIRC I bought the kit late July/Early August. So they've done a relatively recent production run on some of their kits. And that probably isn't ending as we have the re-release of the Movie Seaview coming up. To me it's welcome news as I missed several of these kits the first go-round. And it seems indicative that Pegasus will at least continue to exploit the Moebius tooling bank for a while yet. And I believe that, somewhere on the interwebs, Dave was stated a saying that the Pegasus purse strings are beginning to open up a bit. So maybe there's hope.


Any thing is possible.


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## TAY666 (Jan 8, 2000)

Like I said, the fact they are producing product from the existing tooling is a good sign. They are finally putting the new assets to use.
I am sure the purchase of Moebius took a good portion of their model production budget. (making kits has never been the main focus of Pegasus)
Then there would be down time while they assess what exactly they acquired, figure out where they were going to move the stuff to, and how they were going to put that to work. 

Look what happened to Round2 after they made that big acquisition of Lindberg et al. They slowed way down on new releases, killed a bunch of product already in the pipeline, and had many wondering if they were ever going to make another figure kit again. And they were a much bigger and more experienced operation than Pegasus is.

I figure it will probably be another year before they really get their legs under them and start thinking of much new product.


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## spock62 (Aug 13, 2003)

TAY666 said:


> Like I said, the fact they are producing product from the existing tooling is a good sign. They are finally putting the new assets to use.
> I am sure the purchase of Moebius took a good portion of their model production budget. (making kits has never been the main focus of Pegasus)
> Then there would be down time while they assess what exactly they acquired, figure out where they were going to move the stuff to, and how they were going to put that to work.
> 
> ...



A few of points: a) Pegasus was making quite a few new tool kits for awhile, this seemed to end well before the purchase of Moebius, b) Round 2 stopped producing figure kits awhile ago, c) none of this explains why Pegasus killed the Moebius Facebook page or their complete lack of info regarding where Moebius stands and d) what is currently going on is completely contrary to what Frank said regarding Pegasus's purchase of Moebius: https://culttvman.com/main/moebius-models-has-new-owners/


When Pegasus purchased Moebius, they not only acquired another model kit company, they also acquired that companies _customers_. By leaving these customers in the dark and seemingly going counter to what the previous owner had said would happen (HAL 9000 kit the sole exception), is IMHO a bad move. 



You may be correct saying that in a year Pegasus will start to produce new Moebius kits, but the way they're going, it doesn't look that way. Again, all Pegasus has to do is release a statement, say thru CultTVman, essentially asking people to hold tight, new product is coming in the future. Odd that they haven't bothered to do something as simple as that.


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## Buc (Jan 20, 1999)

can't help but picture...

http://bucwheat.com/temp/torches.jpg


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## veedubb67 (Jul 11, 2003)

Pegasus Hobbies and co-owner Tom Macomber were at the National Retail Hobby Stores Association (NRHSA) show last week in Las Vegas. Moebius Models was prominently on display at their tables. 

I've known Tom and the Pegasus guys for years and I jokingly gave him a hard time about Batgirl. He said 'We've got 4 shipping containers on their way." He also (re)confirmed they're releasing a Lynda Carter Wonder Woman.

Straight from the horse's mouth...

Rob
Iwata Padawan


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## spock62 (Aug 13, 2003)

Buc said:


> can't help but picture...
> 
> http://bucwheat.com/temp/torches.jpg



And your point is?




veedubb67 said:


> Pegasus Hobbies and co-owner Tom Macomber were at the National Retail Hobby Stores Association (NRHSA) show last week in Las Vegas. Moebius Models was prominently on display at their tables.
> 
> I've known Tom and the Pegasus guys for years and I jokingly gave him a hard time about Batgirl. He said 'We've got 4 shipping containers on their way." He also (re)confirmed they're releasing a Lynda Carter Wonder Woman.
> 
> ...



Good to hear these 2 kits are coming. Did he mention any other plans for future Moebius kits?


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

I'm pretty sure that the 1:1 HAL 9000 and the Space Station V kits are still on track.


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## veedubb67 (Jul 11, 2003)

spock62 said:


> Good to hear these 2 kits are coming. Did he mention any other plans for future Moebius kits?


We didn't talk about any other future releases.

Rob
Iwata Padawan


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## spock62 (Aug 13, 2003)

Trek Ace said:


> I'm pretty sure that the 1:1 HAL 9000 and the Space Station V kits are still on track.



This is the 2nd time I've heard rumors of a 2001 space station being developed by Moebius. But, I've never heard any confirmation that this kit is actually being considered/developed. So, unless we hear something definitive from Moebius/Pegasus, I would file this under hearsay.


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## Buc (Jan 20, 1999)

spock62 said:


> And your point is?



'My' point... other than the fact that I'm content in the knowledge
that Frank, a one man operation, (much like Monarch) did all that
he accomplished and it impresses the #@$% outta me... and that I have multiple closets full of unbuilt models that I already own.


So, I guess, my point is...that.


of course, YMMV.


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## spock62 (Aug 13, 2003)

Buc said:


> 'My' point... other than the fact that I'm content in the knowledge
> that Frank, a one man operation, (much like Monarch) did all that
> he accomplished and it impresses the #@$% outta me... and that I have multiple closets full of unbuilt models that I already own.
> 
> ...



So, in context of the subject matter of this thread, your point is...that you have no point and have nothing of substance to add. Which is what I figured, but thanks for clearing it up. Oh, and Moebius was not a "one man operation".


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## Milton Fox Racing (May 27, 2014)

:nerd:


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## spock62 (Aug 13, 2003)

veedubb67 said:


> Pegasus Hobbies and co-owner Tom Macomber were at the National Retail Hobby Stores Association (NRHSA) show last week in Las Vegas. Moebius Models was prominently on display at their tables.
> 
> I've known Tom and the Pegasus guys for years and I jokingly gave him a hard time about Batgirl. He said 'We've got 4 shipping containers on their way." He also (re)confirmed they're releasing a Lynda Carter Wonder Woman.
> 
> ...



According to the latest kit update at CultTVman, https://culttvman.com/main/upcoming-kit-releases/ , the Batgirl kit is planned for release "sometime" in 2020 (same for the Lynda Carter Wonder Woman). What was the "We've got 4 shipping containers on their way." all about? So much for the horse's mouth.


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

((Sigh))


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## spock62 (Aug 13, 2003)

From the CultTVman Facebook page:


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## Steve CultTVman Iverson (Jan 1, 1970)

This is a complete mis-reading of Rob's comments. Rob quotes Tom as saying 4 containers are coming. That is probably accurate. However, it is not 4 containers of Batgirl kits. There are generally 1 to 2 containers arriving each month and each container usually carries a number of different products. Recent shipments for Moebius have been restocks of existing product and some of the new automotive kits. Batgirl is not even at the tooling stage. Wonder Woman will likely arrive long before Batgirl. When Batgirl arrives, it will most likely be about half a container of product. Yes, I've actually unloaded a few of these containers. 



When there is real, actual news to share, I will post it on the CultTVman website and shop pages. 



https://culttvman.com/main/upcoming-kit-releases/


I would encourage you not to let your imaginations run wild. If you have questions about Moebius products, contact the folks that are in charge. I talk to them regularly. 



I hope some of this info is helpful. 



Best
Steve


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Thanks, Steve!


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## scooke123 (Apr 11, 2008)

I agree - thank you Steve !!!!!


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## Capt. Krik (May 26, 2001)

In Culttvman we trust!:thumbsup:

Thanks for the info, Steve.


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## spock62 (Aug 13, 2003)

Yesterday, I decided to take Steve at CultTVman's advice and contact Pegasus directly regarding the status of Moebius Models. I asked that beyond the HAL 9000 kit, were any other kits being developed. I asked why they took down the Moebius Facebook page and why the Moebius website had not been updated except for address/email. I mentioned that I had heard they decided not to renew the licenses for Universal Monsters and BSG. Finally, I wrote that IMHO it would be nice if they reached out to their customers in order to update them on the status of Moebius and Pegasus kits. 

Here is the response: _"Hey, you said in your e-mail;_ "Now we hear that you’ve declined to renew the Universal Monster and Battlestar Galactica licenses.”
_You should know that anyone who says this full of SH** as far as I’m concerned._

_We tried very hard to renew the Universal licenses. THEY (Universal) did not want to renew them. I do not know why, but they have an all new licensing team, and they probably want to make their own mark._

_Please do not repeat this falsehood. It is NOT the case.__
_
_Erik S"_

So, there you have it, direct from the company. It was Universal, not Moebius/Pegasus who decided not to renew the licenses. I replied by thanking him for clearing up this issue and, once again, suggesting that Moebius/Pegasus use Facebook or other social media (i.e. a blog) to directly keep their customers up to date. This would eliminate having individuals speak for them that either misspeak/misunderstand what was told to them/speculate on what is actually happening at the company. Hopefully, they will consider doing this in the future. Other then the license issue, Erik didn't answer any of my other questions. So, just what the status of Moebius is remains unknown.

Hopefully, in the future, people who post here or other places regarding Moebius will make sure they get their story straight so as not to unintentionally mislead people.


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## finaprint (Jan 29, 2006)

Likely that Universal will be looking at increasing license fees by that to me at least. 

FYI, the really current 'production' date given on the LIS robot kit earlier in the thread may not actually be the date the kit was physically made, it may be more of a tariff compliance date. Seeing it now on anything Chinese made.


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## bosso (Mar 29, 2019)

*Moebius*

Coincidentally, I emailed Pegasus last week and asked same questions about Moebius. Also asked if the Nautilus model will be re-released.
Received response that Nautilus will be out soon, but absolutely no mention of my questions about the status of Moebius.
Very strange way to run a company.


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## Warspite (Aug 3, 2013)

finaprint said:


> Likely that Universal will be looking at increasing license fees by that to me at least.
> 
> FYI, the really current 'production' date given on the LIS robot kit earlier in the thread may not actually be the date the kit was physically made, it may be more of a tariff compliance date. Seeing it now on anything Chinese made.


IIRC, Universal renegotiated the license about the time Moebius was working on the Raptor kit, one of the main reasons it was delayed so long. Not surprising they would want to raise the licensing fees as their movies aren't doing great at the box office.


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## bosso (Mar 29, 2019)

Finally got my answer concerning Moebius from Pegasus:

Would any answer we give be liked?

Probably not.

1st off, don't send this type of stuff to the Pegasus Hobbies inbox. I 
am the ONLY one here who goes thru and answers these, so it really helps 
keep my inboxes straight if I don't have to forward it over to myself 
somewhere else. There are 5 different ones I monitor.

2nd, when you say amazing kits, you mean amazing sci-fi kits, right? We 
will always keep looking to do good sci-fi stuff where we can (HAL 9000 
due out soon), but you ought to know that car models outstrip everything 
done in the sci-fi lines.

3rd, I'm not the person to do the website. I wish we had someone here 
to do this work, but it seriously is a full time position. Facebook 
too. It's just money spent that does not translate into kit development 
work getting done.

4th, calm down. Moebius ain't going anywhere. Pegasus ain't "letting 
it die", we're just not that great at social media.

Moebius Models

---

Well there you have it. Obviously not so great at customer relations either!


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## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

hmmmmm, sounds like he has his hands full and maybe we should be grateful that he took time to answer at all.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

That sounds like the emails I send back when 5 people send me graphics to do at the same time, all due tomorrow, when I'm already in the middle of an 80-page proposal, a 300-page powerpoint, and three datasheets.


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## spock62 (Aug 13, 2003)

That's quite a response. First, I'm going out on a limb and assuming your email, which we haven't seen, to Pegasus/Moebius wasn't antagonistic or demanding. If it was, then it explains the response, but still doesn't condone it. If your email was cordial, then the response is out of order.



bosso said:


> Finally got my answer concerning Moebius from Pegasus:
> 
> Would any answer we give be liked?
> 
> Probably not.


Whoever this Moebius employee is, and I can hazard a guess based on his responses, he's basically saying that you've already prejudged the company and anything he says won't change your mind. How can he know that? This is the response one usually gets from Moebius when you dare write to them in anyway other than to kiss their ass. It's a put down and not how a company should respond to an honest inquiry from a customer.




bosso said:


> 1st off, don't send this type of stuff to the Pegasus Hobbies inbox. I
> am the ONLY one here who goes thru and answers these, so it really helps
> keep my inboxes straight if I don't have to forward it over to myself
> somewhere else. There are 5 different ones I monitor.


All he needed to say is "In the future, when you correspond with us, please use this email address, as the one you used is not for Moebius. Thanks.". Instead, you got a lecture and the added pleasure of hearing him whine how this makes his job more difficult.




bosso said:


> 2nd, when you say amazing kits, you mean amazing sci-fi kits, right? We
> will always keep looking to do good sci-fi stuff where we can (HAL 9000
> due out soon), but you ought to know that car models outstrip everything
> done in the sci-fi lines.


So, he's not sure your asking about their sci-fi "stuff"? Isn't that what the company started out doing? Isn't that what they're mostly known for? Why is he so surprised that your asking about kits that make up the majority of their line? His "lesson" on car models outselling sci-fi models is a "so what" kind of thing in regards to what your asking about.




bosso said:


> 3rd, I'm not the person to do the website. I wish we had someone here
> to do this work, but it seriously is a full time position. Facebook
> too. It's just money spent that does not translate into kit development
> work getting done.


So, he doesn't do website/Facebook. To say it's a full time position doesn't add up. Both the website and Facebook page (when it was up) are/were established, adding some new kits to the listing on the website or posting on Facebook doesn't take that much time or effort. They currently have a Moebius and Pegasus website, with only the later being updated. Pegasus has a Facebook page that is updated several times a month (just RC stuff). So, they're OK with spending money on those sites and are quite capable and have the time for updating two of them, but the Moebius Facebook page is just hurting them too much financially and had to go. Sounds like he just doesn't want to be bothered, period.




bosso said:


> 4th, calm down. Moebius ain't going anywhere. Pegasus ain't "letting
> it die", we're just not that great at social media.


His last line explains what we already know and why people like yourself are emailing them asking questions. If Moebius is going to continue to operate as before and they don't want to do the social media thing, then why not just have someone like Steve at CultTVman post an update about where the company stands? Just a paragraph of two explaining they're firing on all cylinders and have product coming in 2020 would suffice. The fact is that since being bought by Pegasus, the only real info we've heard about the company came from Frank Winspur's brief memo on the defunct Moebius Facebook page (which was also on the CultTVman site), since then, we've heard practically nothing in regards to the companies plans for the future. The whole reason this is an issue is because Moebius/Pegasus has created this issue. Pretty much every model kit company out there has a social media presence to keep their customers, both current and future, in the loop. The fact that Moebius/Pegasus doesn't is really quite odd, to say the least.

---



bosso said:


> Well there you have it. Obviously not so great at customer relations either!


No, they're most certainly not.


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## scooke123 (Apr 11, 2008)




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## Buc (Jan 20, 1999)

but it seems to be just you whose panties are always in
a bunch over this topic... why is that?


did Frank piss on your cheerios or sum'thin?!


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## bosso (Mar 29, 2019)

My original email was very cordial and pleasant. It did not warrant this kind of response what so ever.
I was kind of taken a back. Considering I was wondering what the status was only to give them my business in the future.
Obviously he's swamped with emails and probably being asked the same questions over and over, but still not a good way to correspond.


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## bosso (Mar 29, 2019)

PS. Thank you spock62 for siding with me. Actually, to be honest his response make me NOT want to buy another Moebius kit.


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## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

OH ! ?
we are choosing sides?
I am always the last to be chosen.
:frown2:


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## bosso (Mar 29, 2019)

Ok. Maybe "agreeing with me" was a better way to put it.


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## spock62 (Aug 13, 2003)

bosso said:


> PS. Thank you spock62 for siding with me. Actually, to be honest his response make me NOT want to buy another Moebius kit.


 Your welcome. I can understand how you feel, given their response to you. And your last remark is something that should make Pegasus/Moebius reconsider how they treat customers. Every company wants to retain customers, not lose them. 

Anywhere I worked, if anyone had responded to a customer the way Moebius replied to you, they would have their a$$ handed to them from the boss. I (and my coworkers) dealt with plenty of customers that made ridiculous demands and many times we were buried in a ton of work (usually endless changes that the customer wanted, over and over again), but none of these customers could ever say we disrespected/didn't help them. I'm not bragging mind you, it's just the way it's supposed to be. Customer is always right and all that.

Unfortunately, it seems Pegasus/Moebius has an attitude similar to certain people on this forum, that as long as you have nice things to say about Moebius, everything is fine, but, if you stray over that line and seem the least bit critical of them, your treated as a bother and someone that needs to be "set straight". All though, on this forum in particular, some people go one step further and berate/attack on a personal level the "offending" individual. I find it laughable that people would treat others this way over a difference of opinion, especially when the topic is a company that produces boxes of plastic parts.

Anyway, I truly hope this doesn't dissuade you from posting here in the future.


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## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

spock62 said:


> Your welcome. I can understand how you feel, given their response to you. And your last remark is something that should make Pegasus/Moebius reconsider how they treat customers. Every company wants to retain customers, not lose them.
> 
> Anywhere I worked, if anyone had responded to a customer the way Moebius replied to you, they would have their a$$ handed to them from the boss. I (and my coworkers) dealt with plenty of customers that made ridiculous demands and many times we were buried in a ton of work (usually endless changes that the customer wanted, over and over again), but none of these customers could ever say we disrespected/didn't help them. I'm not bragging mind you, it's just the way it's supposed to be. Customer is always right and all that.
> 
> ...


hmmmm ......
very interesting!
pot calling the kettle black?
I have no dog in this fight.
I haven't been involved in model building for about 2 decades.
so, some will assert that I have no business being involved.
be that as it may,.... guys, they are JUST TOYS.
get a GRIP!


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## Buc (Jan 20, 1999)

...or....


some of us have more unbuilt kits in our closet(s) than
we'll ever get to and appreciate the kits Frank was able to
produce. 



So Pegasus... you're ok in my book. 



(ymmv)


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

spock62 said:


> That's quite a response. First, I'm going out on a limb and assuming your email, which we haven't seen, to Pegasus/Moebius wasn't antagonistic or demanding. If it was, then it explains the response, but still doesn't condone it. If your email was cordial, then the response is out of order.
> 
> 
> Whoever this Moebius employee is, and I can hazard a guess based on his responses, he's basically saying that you've already prejudged the company and anything he says won't change your mind. How can he know that? This is the response one usually gets from Moebius when you dare write to them in anyway other than to kiss their ass. It's a put down and not how a company should respond to an honest inquiry from a customer.
> ...




Yes great way to keep your customers.:frown2:


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## Buc (Jan 20, 1999)

like you Yahoos won't snatch em' up the second they come out!


Child, please!


(come onnnnnnn Hal 9000!!)


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## spock62 (Aug 13, 2003)

Buc said:


> like you Yahoos won't snatch em' up the second they come out!
> 
> 
> Child, please!
> ...



Nope, think I'll do a hard pass on that kit. Their callus attitude toward a customer makes it that much easier for me.


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## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

Warspite said:


> IIRC, Universal renegotiated the license about the time Moebius was working on the Raptor kit, one of the main reasons it was delayed so long. Not surprising they would want to raise the licensing fees as their movies aren't doing great at the box office.


Well that and the new masters at Comcast really are putting the screws on to get income flow increased ASAP. I, too, think the licensing issue is more 'Universal wants x times 10 now for the same license' than 'Universal doesn't want to renew the license'.


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## TAY666 (Jan 8, 2000)

Meh.
I actually didn't see anything wrong with the response.

The comment about not being happy with the response is pretty 'on the nose'.
As a collective, us model builders are generally not happy with anything. Finding problems with every kit released, not happy about the choice of subject matter, complaining about release dates, etc.

The comment about car kits is spot on as well. While Moebius got it's start with sci-fi / fantasy kits, their bread and butter were car and truck kits. Sure the sci-fi hardware sold pretty good, but still nowhere near as well as their automotive kits.

I cannot speak to their web presence. I rarely look at the Pegasus website, hardly ever went to the Moebius website, and don't follow Pegasus on FB.
It is possible that one of their employees updates the FB page on their own initiative. They could be passionate about the RC stuff and do updates on their own time.
I can say, updating a website takes considerably more time than most people think it does. I know, because I have a hell of a time doing any work on mine. Always takes 5 times longer than I think it will.

From what I understand, Pegasus is mainly a massive hobby shop that also happens to produce some of their own product.
As such, I doubt very much they have a customer service department, or any one person in charge of website / social media.
Personally, I prefer the honest 'off the cuff' answer to the evasive 'politically correct' response one usually gets from a big corporation.


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## scooke123 (Apr 11, 2008)

Pretty spot on Trevor. Plus he said in his reply they are not good at social media anyway . I always take stuff with a grain of salt anyway. Too hard to read into a written comment. I'm sure if you were talking in person the intent would have come over as much different.
In this day and age model companies will go more with the sure things - automotive subjects, aircraft and military hardware. The sci-fi and figure kits are a drop in the bucket in the large scheme of things and I doubt that will ever change.


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## finaprint (Jan 29, 2006)

If it is part of YOUR JOB, you learn to jump through the customer hoops or quit in my view. I see no reason to get upset about having to answer the same questions over and over, one simply makes up a catch-all stock email and copy it over and over as needed to then add whatever few new words you want to tilt the post at that time with. You'd think it was rocket science by the griping there. 5 inboxes that can be answered at will, try 15 customers all at once physically in front of you and you have to begin by establishing pecking order sequence. I'm laughing at it. 

My view is that one is starting off backwards by creating a company that sells to the public yet wants to avoid that same public as much as possible. Not a good battle plan at all. 

I am one of the worst at 'getting out there' to mingle and communicate with people I do not know and why I always chose to work out of sight of the public. At one time though I was forced and found out one can figure out how to make it work and even fun while doing it. Does that mean I would choose to work that type of job again? Hard to say, but I know now that I can compartmentalize well enough to do it without going nuts in the process.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

alpink said:


> hmmmm ......
> very interesting!
> pot calling the kettle black?
> I have no dog in this fight.
> ...



So what are you even doing here, then? Trolling?
'Cause insulting someone's hobby just ain't cool.


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## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

*inevitable*



John P said:


> So what are you even doing here, then? Trolling?
> 'Cause insulting someone's hobby just ain't cool.


congratulations ....
you have responded exactly as I expected.
I used to build 4-5 model kits a week and bought just about every one that came down the pike.
am I boring you? trolling?

in case you haven't noticed, this is the United States of America and people serve and have served to protect my right to express myself.

that is not trolling, that is expressing my opinion which I will continue to do.

and, oh yes, I have gotten sanctioned here for expressing honest opinions and I live up to that..

oh yeah, I can see that you have been here a lot longer than I have, congratulations.
and you have many, many more posts than I.
it hasn't slipped my attention that you take advantage of using a site for free when you could put your money where your mouth is and support the site with a paid membership.

thank you for your kind consideration.

NUFF SAID


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## Milton Fox Racing (May 27, 2014)

:nerd:


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## Buc (Jan 20, 1999)

GROUP HUG!! GROUP HUG!


(btw Trevor... yep! 100%)


(having run a site for 20+ years and typing up a nice FAQ to
cover all 'your' needs, you actually thing folks READ it?! Nope!
Right to the phone/email they go!) So seeing that reply elicited
a '...been there, done that' response on my end!


and after all of us reading 5 pages worth of msgs in this thread,
think I'll smack Frank upside the back of his head the next time
I see him... just cuz I can!


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## apls (Dec 5, 2005)

I just purchased Moebius Creature with the replacement head for Revenge from CultMan, a Christmas gift for myself, I don't buy many kits anymore, I plan to build as many as I can from my stash. But, I loved their "creech". I'm sorry we never got that Phantom, does Universal still own the license or is that public domain? I feel Moebius is moving in another direction anyway, I am greatful for what they did, thanks.


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## TAY666 (Jan 8, 2000)

finaprint said:


> My view is that one is starting off backwards by creating a company that sells to the public yet wants to avoid that same public as much as possible. Not a good battle plan at all.


I get the impression the situation is the opposite.
I'm betting, whoever answered that email is probably more comfortable out on the sales floor. Helping customers and answering questions in person.
Dealing with actual people, face-to-face.
Somehow, he got 'stuck' answering email, isn't comfortable with it, and has no real talent for it.

I mean, they have been in business since 1986.
So they must be good at dealing with actual customers.


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## finaprint (Jan 29, 2006)

Look at how many companies break out to be bigger after existing in relative obscurity for many years, only to then fold upon hitting the higher stresses of being a bigger company with more ends and societal obligation to keep up with. You're seeing that right now, who lets the somebody just described get into a position to do what he (or she) just did?

Oh no, there's some learning curve still missing there. 

And thinking that person is better out on the sales floor? Not where I come from, that guy speaks way too freely to ever be good sales, unless he has only been there less than a month. I just finished a 3 year management stint in retail using 6 men in the entire shop to cover 7 days/week and if somebody did that the minimum would be a writeup for that sort of action. You others can forgive substandard workers all you want, and why they can go there to waste your company money. If you can't do multiple worker jobs you are considered a less than adequate worker, where have you guys been, it's been that way for 20 years. Only union people say that's not my job and look at where that has gotten them.

More comparison? Think Hobbico. They lasted through all their internal incompetence and familial corruption.........until they didn't.


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## spock62 (Aug 13, 2003)

Tay666, while I can see where you're coming from, but.....


As was pointed out, we can't know the intent of the writer of the response. All we have is the response. Seeing that nuance is sometimes lost in a written response, it makes the responsibility of the writer to accurately convey his intent that much greater. Then again, the response could be his honest feelings on the matter. Since we don't know, one way or the other, you have to take the response at _face value_.

When a customer asks question/s regarding a companies polices/products, the responding employee of that company is representing the company through his/her response. That is way it's very important to treat the customer with respect. This, IMHO, was not done in this response.

While it may be a fact that many modelers will find something to pick on regarding the hobby, that doesn't warrant the type of response that was given.

While it may be true that car kits sell better than sci-fi kits, that wasn't the question. If sci-fi kits are such poor sellers, why does Moebius continue to produce them? They have far more sci-fi kits then car kits, and some of their car kits are just variations of the same car/truck. And Moebius *is* known for their sci-fi kits, regardless of the other types of kits they have produced.

Regarding the updating of websites/Facebook pages, while it takes time (what doesn't?), in this day and age, it is a necessary "evil". Every company out there has some sort of social media presence, most are on Facebook. And whoever is updating the Pegasus website/Facebook page is not doing it for laughs, I'm willing to bet they're getting paid to do it, on company time. As I mentioned previously, when Pegasus purchased Moebius, the Moebius website/Facebook page came with the deal. To take down the Facebook page to save money, but keep the other websites/Facebook pages up makes no sense. It's up to the company to hire people/appoint people to update/maintain social media sites. Seems to me, especially in light of what the Moebius employee wrote, that they neither want to be bothered or care about maintaining a social media presence. An odd choice for a company IMHO.

As for Pegasus, yes part of who they are is a hobby shop, but they also produce (or used to produce) their own kits and now own another model kit manufacturer, Moebius. To suggest they don't have a customer service department is odd, any company that sells product to customers has someone in that role. What happens if your missing a part or a part is defective, is there no one to help you? The answer is yes there is someone doing this job. I know because I had a defective part in one of their Pegasus kits, contacted them and had a replacement part sent to me free of charge, quickly and with an apology to boot.

Regarding an "honest" answer as opposed to a "politically correct" response, yes an honest answer is what anyone would want. Not a passive/aggressive answer like was given. As has been pointed out, the employee is responsible for treating the customer with a high level of respect, even more so when the customer is being respectful of them. The employee's response reflects on the company as a whole, so choosing your words carefully is important.

Lastly, I think your confusing Pegasus and their hobby shop operation with Moebius, which is just a model kit manufacturer. When Frank sold the company over 1 1/2 years ago, two Moebius employees remained, and Frank, is no longer running the company. While Moebius is supposed to remain independent, they actually aren't since any kit they wish to produce has to be OK'd by the bean-counters at Pegasus. Neither Moebius employee is on the sales floor, they most likely work from home developing Moebius kits, they are not salespeople. The response in question came from one of these Moebius employees, not from Pegasus. How this employee has became "stuck" with answering emails and whether or not he's comfortable with or has a talent for it is irrelevant. It's his job and he's doing a piss poor job of it. 

In fact, he really didn't do much to answer the questions asked. So they're producing the HAL 9000 kit, we've known that for a good while now. They're not good at social media, well that's obvious. A kit of a 60's Ford pickup truck sells better than a kit of a 60's TV show fantasy spacecraft, wow, what a revelation. To me, this response has more of a "don't bother me in the future" vibe.

Words are important, I took what was wrote at face value. Your giving them the benefit of the doubt, and while I can understand that, I just can't ignore what I read with my own eyes. While it's not the worst response I've ever heard about, it is certainly not a good one.


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## scooke123 (Apr 11, 2008)

:beatdeadhorse:


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## phrankenstign (Nov 29, 1999)

There are a lot of kits out there already that have been produced by a lot of different companies. Sometimes it's difficult to choose which item(s) to buy. A few years ago, Playing Mantis sold quite a lot of model kits due in part to their presence on the web and their popular forum. I'm sure their friendly interaction with customers helped them sell many more kits than they would have sold without that public relations avenue.

Today, the number of companies with presences on the internet (social media and web-sites) is very high. Customers who have experienced a negative interaction with a company's representative can easily decide to NOT buy that company's products in favor of a competitor's products. It's very easy to do. It's also easy for customers to tell others all about their negative interaction(s). Companies that don't treat their customers respectfully risk losing them.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Polar Lights had Lisa Greco as their public face, and she was so nice that a lot of us still talk to her on Facebook.


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## Milton Fox Racing (May 27, 2014)

John P said:


> Polar Lights had Lisa Greco as their public face, and she was so nice that a lot of us still talk to her on Facebook.


IIRC Lisa was also involved in the start up of HobbyTalk and still has an active membership with us. Wish her well and give her my thanks for the legacy they left us. :cheers2:


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## finaprint (Jan 29, 2006)

Legacy indeed............I still remember the day I walked into the LHS to be bowled over by the PL Addams Family house in real plastic! I really needed that at that point in my life, things plastic model were getting so blase I could throw up. Tom still freakin' rocks. Frank and Scot(t) do as well, Pegasus............uuuhhhh, well the verdict is still out. Atlantis is beginning to outshine them. Time to do something about that.


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