# generator etq950



## pauliol (Apr 6, 2016)

I am new to this site and wanted to see if I could get an answer to my problem. I have an etq950 generator I am trying to fix. I can get it started by putting fuel into the spark plug hole. It will start but dies immediately. Have cleaned the carb and reed valves but has not solved the problem. Any sugestions? By the way, I am also interested in getting a copy of the owners manual.


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## paulr44 (Oct 14, 2008)

Please start a new thread, this one is 6 yrs. old.


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

I have an etq950 for awhile sitting on bench with start issues also. For poopy's I looked and changed read valves clean and soaked parts repeatedly over the years it has sat and I noticed during this go round that the governor shaft seal wasn't seated in it's bore. I heard a bleeding down of air after a pull 0 the old RIP cord. I started thinking a 2 cycle engine requires crank case compression to run,scavenge and provide back pressure for sealing of reed valves right. Boy do I feel like a maroon. I heard it (hissing) thinking crank seal are shot, said tear down and reconditioning,parts replacement but that particular sel I missed due to line of sight and a case of the Y-D complex. Young and dumm... it isn't communicable...lol So here I am oncoming it over and pulling covers off to try and spark a memory of bad runs and a bit later of no runs and frustrations...here is the seal blown up on governor shaft ever so slightly, like a NYC MANHOLE COVER in your face but you'd still miss it. It has been so long it sat after more then 5 to 7 years since my logbook entry. But now I can't find the part on line. There are piston rifles gas and things but a government or shaft seal? I will pull off the arm and see how bad the seal is because it is very lousy being set in it bore hole. I have that same problem with my vulcan 1500's clutch rod seal blowing out of its bore also from engine back pressure. There is a light interference fit. You can push it in with your finger fit action. If I can't get an OEM replacement, do anyone here know of a place to get a seal if I provide them with dominions specs of seal and bore. Hopefully not an open abyss like the bike.
...


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

New up date ...lol I have gotten out of the inside of the engine which is fair to well. Sealed up the vacuum leaks in a few places to include a hole at the base of the engine case...go figure ... a casting fail right by the block bolt. You could put a pick through it into the crankcase. So I used silver bearing solder and packed it with flux and heated it up and filled in the hole which took a bit of fudging around but got done. Made thicker base gaskets all around, holds pressure, and vacuum after I made a test gauge set with seal off plates, ported and polished the block transfers and intake and exhaust ports. The cylinderhead was polished also. I have a before,stock impression of the condition and now a somewhat modified version to see and learn the basic modifications of 2 cycle engines. That is alot work....my hats off to you tinker guys, porting/polishing Pitt matching and all that to improve from and function is labor intensive for just a single piston engine but fun and learning how to cheat a little more is addicting. Thankyou, the problem is getting specs on this engine are profoundly difficult. But common sense and judgement preval. The plastic parts on cover assy were falling apart also,causing more leaks to. The carb cover region had air leaks and weakening at flange to intake manifold. So I built a reinforcement plate bilaterally on both sides and Jb welded and gradually ground flush mounting point for carb assy cover. After that and curing I painted inside a back area with caliper paint, and fixed all damaged areas with jb weld to fill all crush and weak spots noticable also. I thought of adding an after market stubby air breathing filter but will use a larger foam filter for now. I saw one guy use that concept ...maybe later...just wanna get it right first. The electric start situation coming along also. I am going to fabricate a sprage clutch to an angle grinder 90°head and tig n fab drive to cover when parts arrive. But almost to completed. Just finding things to do. What if's and how bouts...lol. give a sitrep later,bite ppl.


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## finaprint (Jan 29, 2006)

Be careful with that porting thing if really done, there is an art to simply radiusing the edges of 2 stroke ports once they have been opened up bigger and it is exacting. Make the port edge into cylinder too rough and it then grabs ring to snag and break it or chips it to not seal. The ring has to ease into and out of the hole or the shock breaks them quick. 

I used to take OEM 7000 rpm 2 strokes and turn them into 11000 rpm race motors. Yamaha twins of all sizes and Kawasaki threes up to 750 cc. The edge finishing of modded ports there was the make or break difference as to how long the engines lasted.


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## finaprint (Jan 29, 2006)

You really do not want to mod a gen type engine as you want the governed speed whatever it may be to be as constant as possible and low power porting works much better for that. High power porting tends to move erratically around in rpm more at a static or single loaded rpm like a generator wants to make constant even volts. It also wastes far more fuel. A high perf engine wants to run under 100% load, they misfire and pop and just in general sound like something is wrong with them at low loads. Why? Because they use port timings that are far less 'air active' due to the bigger port timings that can only be symmetrical due to the basic design of the engine. And why reed type and rotary valve too were created. It is far easier to stabilize for constant power with a low rpm potential engine, they run smoother at 'reasonable' rpms and loads.

You usually generate power at 3600 rpm on the nose anyway and higher rpm does not help with that.

Of course, yours and do as you will..........


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

Opps...note ppl....inless you are into that extensively....just nibble on her...lol sorry I was tired...lol


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

Darn it..."nite ppl"


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

Mr. Fine print sir. I thankyou for that. I am new to 2 cycles and I love em ! They are not exposed as much as 4 cycle engines. I brought it for its size, I never worked on 2 cycles because of availability. Now it has a tinkerbug sting in me...lol
I am learning new stuff and wish I sacked up 10 years ago, wasted time and almost did a throw away with this one. Learning about its processes form and functioning isn't as much a mystery anymore. Let alone practicing some things otherwise never done. The port tuning is something amazing in itself. I am new to it but have been a gearhead for life. Everyday is a training day...especially for me. Shoot I had to read your post 3x to catch up...almost...lol


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

In my mods, I just taken off the rough casting surfaces. Smooth polishing as far as I could reach,no special tools just time and patience. Just a lil beta test...lol I just decarbonized the head, rings ,piston grooves which were so full of junk,the rings were stuck. I guess from to much oil added to fuel I think I was mixing more then 40:1 ratio. I read somewhere that the more the oil will cake up the upper end. I have used high test always....just a practiced task I guess. I didn't have alot of damage to the piston /bore. Minimal scuffing at the exhaust port with thick chunks of carbon in exhaust port. It was hard to remove but after working it down,slowingly the port was alot bigger then before I started,just insuring not to remove the important stuff like...the parent metal. The one thing I am wondering is there a coating in ports and transfer ducts like in the cylinder bore. Nickel coating or ceramic coating the ports to prevent over coating of deposits maybe. Or would that void the supply and demand ratio of durability?The cost effectiveness vs. Lower production cost could factor into it I guess.


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

Heck I just started keeping a log of my maintenence and logged run times. Now that I am free and clear with my time now. The genny has alot of clock hours and I still don't know its service intervals...like I should,so as if the times come when I do need it,it will be online w/o a hiccop.


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

I will post back how well she performs. I am just learning how to do things DIY. How to adjust governer,adjust fuel jetting,run optimization and basic maintenance just cause. It is a beater anyway.....lol. A trainer set for edumacation only.


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

The military thought me if someone else fixed it to go long.....lol


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

I have one question about the governor adjustment, is it set to be full throttle or in the idle position when doing a static adjustment. Then the idle adjustment to keep it running? I HAD a bad experience with a Detroit diesel in the Ermy. The kid who was showing messed up and the engine ran away....never to be found again...lol...just a joke but that truck screamed and all of us ran away screaming like school kids at a cootie convention....lol. I don't know if a genny can run away...so I am priming myself....(extra pair of shorts just in case). I am to understand that the governor moves the carb throttle to idle down but how is it controlled to throttle up when you load it. What do the springs do or should I say how is it keep in balance, I see an adjustment screw on the Gov arm but it is foreign to my dinosaur brain, I think I have the purpose on the way of governor spooling down from but the concept of how in that capacity escapes me. Centrifugal force swings weights out,which in turn moves the throttle to idle and but how is the gov rpm regulated in terms of the big spring on governor arm with all the holes to which I have no idea which hole is the right hole,and then the little spring which runs with the throttle linkage at carb. What does it do if the big spring controls the govhah,what is the purpose of little one. A damper maybe for throttle plate? I don't even see where that is suppose to go. Being that I can't find a tech manual on this gen-set at all. It is harder to wrap my lil walnut around it. I just look at it and say poohpy.


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

poopy. Am trying hard not to grenade my apartment. Although it already looks like a clutter bomb site already.....lol


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## finaprint (Jan 29, 2006)

On a genset I myself set the governor for the set speed to make power and set speed at around 3600 rpm using a voltmeter that has a hertz reading as one of the choices. Set it at 60 cycles per second which is what 120 volt in power lines runs at. I want the speed to be most even at the actual speed the tool is used at, meaning the idle may be a bit wonky, you don't idle one much. 

The governor usually has one force that gets balanced out by another, the rpm levels off when they offset perfectly, the springs help that happen and sometimes are one side of the force. Lawn equipment commonly uses a spring at the carb, the other end of it goes to a wing that the cooling air blows against to make the opposite force. The wing or air paddle is offset by the spring. Sometimes internal centrifugal weights replace the paddle to be inside where dirt cannot affect them like the paddle. Again, the weights work against a spring to balance out to stabilize speed.

A small governor spring may be for idle only or add to the bigger one to finetune its' rpm stabilizing. Many use more than one to do that. Guessing at spring placement can kill you without seeing the full detail of how the governor is sprung, it can be impossible to figure out. 

I myself care little about pollution on the small scale these make, I tend to run 32/1 oil ratio even on newer stuff to make the devices last longer. ALL 2 strokes carbon up and the ones using less oil only a little bit less than using more oil. Decarboning them is a fact of life and easy enough to do.

Any coating in the ports is overspray only, the cylinder contact point for piston is the only place any coating needs to be. The pistons as well can be plated to lengthen life.


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

So if the springs are set at factor as it gets older or weaker you end up readjusting to another hole? The big spring has a bit of stretch to it, Ithought of getting a new set they been on so long just sitting like ...10-12 years on shelf. I was busy saving the world,now I am trying to just save me. Boredom is a terrible thing,the springs are kind of sloppy, but after the setting up and all the final tightenings of gov arm and linkage refitting I should know for sure...right? I read somewhere that the arm is adjusted full throttle open arm and shaft matched to carb w.o.t. on static and go from there. Then on dynamic adjustment there is suppose to be an adjustment screw for high speed, but I don't have a high speed screw on carb. Just an idle mixture screw and a idle speed screw. Am I missing something or lost it. Or is that where I am to readjust the arm? Both point of contact are fixed. One bolted plate and the arm itself. The carb spring is another unknown.A friend was helping me with it and was moving faster then me so I missed all that. He has none the foggiest on it now. So I am tackling it now. Like I stated before go long or go home. I still can't find a service manual all I keep finding online are the owner manuals, no tech books on this lil booga. When in doubt ask.


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

I am learning alot I have to admit, even though I know there is a test on Friday...lol. Flashing the fields I thought would be a problem but I will cross over that rabbit hole later. Figure its gotta run first...lol. But thankyou again. Chat with ya soon. I am going to sleep on this gov-nah stuff get a fresh outlook,fresh mind.


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

I was researching a bit last night,and read that you can change the port timing if you grind away at it removing material /cut always. I only removed the carbon deposits without taking the cast iron away,just smoothed out the ports,removed mostly imperfections like casting roughness to smooth the flow of fuel charge. I didn't change any profiles,scrapped,buffered, and polished as best I could with cloves lapping compound and mother's polish which really did a trick for the aluminum heads chamber. It has a mirror finish so I am hoping there will be less build up of carbon, flow efficiency and scavaging effect. Which is all I want,it should ran better then stock with the few modifications and the clean up of factory's rough machine work. I've seen bad but in there it was soooooo rough, I wonder how that can be efficient for a single engine 2 stroke anyway. I have seen better castings and clean ups on 4 cycle jobs. Not that I will be running the formula 1 circuit....maybe tailgating one oneday....never been...lol (bucket list) Good Morning all....


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

Ok.. I feel an idiot only because I think I found the governor high speed screw...on the side of the engine. In fact it looks like a bolt but is like a worm gear spline if that makes sense? I guess it indirectly controls gov limit going down from maximum ...I don't know...what I do know is I wish I could of changed the governor centrifical clutch springs being there is a little free play there or is that normal? The screw end of shaft turns like 1/8" cw/ccw but feels like hanging up a little. But looking at it, there wasn't any burrs,wear marks,or falling on tracks.the shaft bore was a little wide and I think that was its design, no wittle marks, elongations and such. I had ordered from grainger the new seal since the old one was popped out of its bore. That is how I found the vacuum leak, and all this shiitake started...lol learning new things for a old hunting dog, slow but steady. 2nd. time is a charmer. I even made my first block off plates for psi/vacuum test. After assy it held pressure at 7lbs. And vacuum at I think 15 I think I just was looking for any leak downs. Passed. More work then a 4 stroke. I am still in my stall right now but it is shaping up. The dam plastic keeps cracking it's so dry,and brittle hot glue all over the place. Form holes,screw bosses and the slot for the outlet mounting. But form and function it will work....lol.


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## finaprint (Jan 29, 2006)

What watt gen is that? 1200?


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

A TG1200 the sticker says 950 to 1000.I guess they want me to smoke it...lol supply and demand. Flood the market with junk and then feed the fastest birds...lol limit parts, but take the money close up shop do something else. You just get left with a grenade in your pants feeling with the pin out,you gotta move slow and careful...lol


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

63cc 5etq...series ...blahblah blah...I written it down somewhere on its logbook...lol somewhere in here.


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

Here is one cookie cutter gen-set


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

I have more pics can't find em yet.


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## finaprint (Jan 29, 2006)

Manual?

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/801559/Etq-Tg1200.html?page=21#manual

Parts? From England though.

https://www.generatorguru.com/tg1200-1/

Yes, looking even at current Harbor Freight models may be same company that makes them making newer ones now. Many of the parts may work there, one would just have to look close.


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## finaprint (Jan 29, 2006)

The governor there is inside engine and centrifugal type, the weights work through the arm against a spring at carb. Several actually, may be 3 of them there.


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

Thanks for the pdf, All my small parts are all over the place. Small work tables are not a good thing...lol. In light of that I got the wiring back together, tagged on di-electo'd...lol gotta get linkages back on carb and govnah,then set that up. There is this guy on youtube by the name of Gary dachy or something but he is a generator mechaneck,and he covers a wide range on popular gens,didn't see any of mine...lol but theory is universal. You can add to something but ya can't take away from it. I was Y-TUBE Beigning like an anorexic nypho last night into this morning. Boy I am so tired. But I did learn a few things at cost. But the pearl is priceless. Thanks again fine print. Sir. I still can't find the good ones with the engine codes yet.lol


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

I just set the gov full open throttle,and big spring pulls it cllosed, Small spring is damper linkage spring carb to gov arm. Next will be fuel lines and spool up test...wish me luck....go long ....right?...lol


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

I just received my tater motor today,it is so small hard to believe it starts a 50 cc engine. Permanent magnet compact. I am working on a design so far so good. The D.O.R. is correct,using an old grinder head, ratchet starter assy and if I can find the darn crankshaft I can cut off the starter end and work a lil magic. I was hoping not to have to use gear reduction,it gets how you said it "wondky"...lol.. I just want it small smooth and tight...did I mention light to. I am just doing what if's cuz I am bored...lol


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

Next step of modifications, I don't have a clue yet? But I will try.


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

Well I am almost done, but I hit a snag. I have the bolt to use as the inner bushing shaft I am turning down by hand tools,but I am having trouble tapping this grade 8.8 bolt. I don't want to break off tap in center bore hole for crankshafts tap hole at end of bolts head. The center is square and has depth for crankshaft end to be screwed on but to cut the threads is difficult. I have it tapped part way then it hangs even when I back to clear it and I lube it to help with cut. It started great but half way down is the stop point....lol Scratching my head on this one. All I have next is to turn down bolt end with a file while it spins on the drill press,cut to length of 1.5 inches and "viola". All the diameter has to be close to .500 - / + clearance for heat expansion, lubrication,and non interference fit. The rachet drive for starting will not work without it. "Necessity is the mother of all invention. " I don't know of any machine shops near me so I am tackling it myself,I made it almost to the end result but a hiccup is a hiccup right? Time, patience and a cigar helps...alotta cigars! The Ermy thought me "DFTU".measure twice cut once and to take a knee, go through ya 7 steps then go with the best plan if ya got one, or wing it...pplllttthhh...lol. A touch of a mastercraftman's hand.


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

I have a machining question? My thread gauge reads the crankshaft end thread at m10x1.25 mm. But I don't find a bottoming tap anywhere? I see 1.50,1.75...etc. etc.Is there a tap you know of that is a bottoming tap m10x 1.25. I know I didn't misread it if it goes on nice,tight w/o wobble,and the 1.50 pitch stops around 2 turns. These are the screw on pitch gauges on a cable ring imperial and metric sizings.


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

sizing that I am thinking that if you drill a hole for a metric thread what is the drill hole size for an M10x1.25. I had drilled hole with an 11/32 drill and started the tap for an M10x1.25 thread. Could this be my problem . I just found out I am using the wrong tap type...I am using one (plug)when I suppose to use a bottoming tap for the blind hole in a bolt head center and the plug tap is stopping at the halfway point due to the taper end of taps no contact reach and stopping short?


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

I ordered a metric bottoming tap,and I now know why it is hard to find. They are expensive as horacio. The one bit is 50 bucks a pop. I found a specialty tooling company who was referred to me by a machine shop who buys their equipment there. The company is alot closer to me then the machine shop. Cost effectiveness is the job would be more expensive then getting the one part/tool. So in my pocket I go again. Wanna play gotta pay. LOL Learning is an education,there is always a lesson to learn. Sitrep up later.


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

I learned a poor mans lathe and had to try it. Me being poor and all. It was a long day measured in 32nds of an inch. Slow and deliberate, but the end of it all is satisfied and really tired. I seen it on YouTube somewhere. Thankyou who ever you are. Tomorrow is cut down and fitment of rachet assy. Then wait for the h/d tap for correct sizing and will get her done. Thanks again guys." Old dogs can hunt,we just move slower."


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

Note to self...don't use a grade 8 /8.8 bolt if you don't really need to. I really didn't need to, but a mild case of cortex inversion syndrome...lol


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## finaprint (Jan 29, 2006)

I make bottoming taps out of starter ones, the only difference is that the threads drop off. Grind off the end until they don't.

Part of the key to tapping harder materials is in the EXACT size of the starting hole before you tap, you often need to make the hole bigger by a little bit to tap easier. Why the better tap charts talk in terms of 75% and 50% thread, you can't get 100% thread on hard material, the taps break too easy unless they are bigger diameter. 

10MM. is .3930, the tap size is .3425 and 11/32 is .3435, you could have whacked off maybe .010" more off by boring the starting hole that much bigger. The less the thread depth of course the easier the tapping is. 

If you needed it, the standard depth for tapping is 7 full threads, if you had that there was no need going to the bottom of the hole.


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

Hello again, I am grateful for ya assist. I wouldn't have thought of that....in a million years. Don't I feel like the ass...lol Think pass the target right. Well I finaled out everything else and it looks good so far,working slow to insure a D.F.T.U. moment of course. I wish I had posted the last one earlier sooner....like before ordering a 50.00 tap. But oh well learning again something new. Thankyou again in advance...lol I will post out soon on the development of the electric starter next. I have to get the set up right first,then go back from there next. I wish I became an engineer before soldiering half my life.


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

How are you sir...hope you are having a great day,week and new year. With a beer a day...lol


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

Ok while waiting to not fudge up, I started on starter assy and head drive. Measured out i.d.'s and heights to start work on the shaft drive and coupling fitment. A design is function then form in this case. I wish I had an R&D w/bells and whistles,just an apartment the size of a closet...lol


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

Here are the grinder head bearing and gear. Which I have to devise a way of couplings from starter drive to gear shaft,then driven end shaft to rachet drive. Have to utilize junk,small budget and what is left of my neuron count...lol


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

Opps... Forgot to load these also. Don't know how I am gonna cut a keyway and clip on end of shaft yet...hack saw is kind of big, and has an interference fit on both i.d.'s for shaft with different diameters. Trial and error I guess?


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

Well the bottoming tap worked like a dream ...it better have as expense is concerned, it is like the description said...no chips and the threads are actually very clean,tighter then the plug tap which cut into the tapped hole first. I never used a bottoming tap that I know of,should of remember that. The threads are beefy and have more fill from the press forming then the cut away of metal. I guess if in thread repair it is something to consider I must say. Thanks fella's she is coming along right nicely, just cosmetic panel repairs of dry rotten plastic shroud.
.need that...fuel tank mount hole rethreading...and first run up oh ..about 10 years a hangerqueen
..lol


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

With 2 pair 0 eyes I am having problems. It is time to retire. Enjoy what is left in life. Hell I earned it... Sometimes...slot of times I missed my kids growing up to save the world. Be who saved me. Well other then God...lol


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

Now is the hard part, do I cut shaft end of old grinder and use that which is already made with a few modifications to repurpose it....or do I go for the gusto and use my brain and not cheat myself? Building a new shaft drive from scratch is going to be a challenge of my integrity never built anything small like that. But a challenge is something to overcome right. I was looking at the original shaft and I know I can do it,not like I have a life anyway. I am doing this do to boredom...lol sitrep later.


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## paulr44 (Oct 14, 2008)

TonyEMS30 said:


> I have one question about the governor adjustment, is it set to be full throttle or in the idle position when doing a static adjustment. Then the idle adjustment to keep it running? I HAD a bad experience with a Detroit diesel in the Ermy. The kid who was showing messed up and the engine ran away....never to be found again...lol...just a joke but that truck screamed and all of us ran away screaming like school kids at a cootie convention....lol. I don't know if a genny can run away...so I am priming myself....(extra pair of shorts just in case). I am to understand that the governor moves the carb throttle to idle down but how is it controlled to throttle up when you load it. What do the springs do or should I say how is it keep in balance, I see an adjustment screw on the Gov arm but it is foreign to my dinosaur brain, I think I have the purpose on the way of governor spooling down from but the concept of how in that capacity escapes me. Centrifugal force swings weights out,which in turn moves the throttle to idle and but how is the gov rpm regulated in terms of the big spring on governor arm with all the holes to which I have no idea which hole is the right hole,and then the little spring which runs with the throttle linkage at carb. What does it do if the big spring controls the govhah,what is the purpose of little one. A damper maybe for throttle plate? I don't even see where that is suppose to go. Being that I can't find a tech manual on this gen-set at all. It is harder to wrap my lil walnut around it. I just look at it and say poohpy.


Wow, that's a lot about a gov. Simple, flyweights under centrifugal force counter-act governor spring. ALL mech. gov's are set same way, apply full throttle to extend spring, loosen gov. arm nut, rotate gov. cross shaft to-and-fro to ensure is free from arm, and rotate in same direction as full throttle (direction of spring pull). Lock nut down, you're done. After that, adjusting screw or bending tab for spring tension to set max. RPM is all that's needed. On generators, we set max RPM by gen output, usually 61-62 Hz so under load falls down to 60 Hz.

If you search HT forums for "static governor" setting, you'll get the same diatribe.

P.S. I didn't think I had to say it, but when setting the gov. the engine should be shut off.


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

Ok so I am to understand the direction can only go oneway. W.O.T. and the Gov is suppose to sense a drop in rpm due to the loading of engine which causes the weights to swing in which in turn spools up the engine. Or do I have it bass ackwards. I thought as the engine spooled up,the arm moved the carb to slow down,but against the governor spring is where that balance is adjusted and set. I have to relook at my set up again. I think I have something wacky. Since it was in a parts baggy when I pulled everything off the shelf. Maybe I can look at another hobo freight generator and take a pic. I don't want to screw this up. I can't run long like I use to. I will take a pic of mine also.(the gov/carb setup)...lol. There is a slot on Gov arm that has a small increment of play. It is resting in 12 0'clock and turns and stops in a CW rotation. So I am to turn it CW till it stops, lock down arm on sloted shaft. The governor spring pulls the arm/shaft CCW. The spring d.o.r. is idle speed and the Gov arms d.o.r. CW is eng high speed governor which the linkage rod and small spring control the throttle plate for w.o.t.?


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

I think there are some parts missing on my genny then,only because I can't find where the small spring is suppose to anchor to. One end is hooked to throttle linkage so now I have to find the other point now?


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

There are only 2 springs, hopefully not 3. There aren't no parts breakdown schematics that far into takedowns I've seen. I am wondering if the newer tailgater genny's the same. There is at least an11 year span between them...lol


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

Ok here is the new run down...


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

I still have a bit left?


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

I am trying to get a better understanding with this dinosaur brain 0 mine. Wrapping my head around this is a challenge. But we will get it. Thankyou fella's ,the fun part is the starter shaft....yes I got weak and short cut instead of shining a new set of ball bearings. What would Wyle E. Coyote do? I figured save time and money because no guess work,no manual indexing,just cut,measure and paste. So far all is working to plan as now I can focus on coupling drive between the two units and really keep it simple,yet strong but reliable. All the hard parts are there.Just gotta use my dipstick jimmy... lol


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

My concern is the index of spline plugs on an internal collar. Finding that shaft ,tube,or I guess collet. Then the shaping of it. Then how do you harden something to endure them forces. I have an electric panel saw HF,I was going to try first and cut out lands to see if I can eyeball it. I have 10 splines and 10 lugs,shape it in and try a few materials out to see what works.


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## finaprint (Jan 29, 2006)

I was likely wrong and why the edit.

Look here.........at the pics close.

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r26142369-Small-generator-mechanical-governor-adjustment


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

I thankyou again how did you find these sites,I am combing thru and can't never find relevant things on this Chinese generator. But I like it as a novelty item...lol.


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

I have great news.!!!! You are gonna love this...you save money by switching to geico...??? Just kidding. No ya don't ...Haha at least no here. But here is the new marching orders...make it work. Ermy motto "there is the right way,,,da right way and the wrong way...and we aren't going that way Alice! ...lolmemories to live by.


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

I know right? Stay cool as a cucumber. A baby in a warm pool is always relaxed factored in. Cute kid thou.


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

I have one end of starter drive done and assembled. Now to work on the other end. The motor drive and coupling assemble are going to be "tasky" yet satisfying...lol...I hope.


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

Thanks fingerprint for link it helped alot....but...lol... the shaft is holded with scree driver as was said,but is there a direction to be held in while arm is loose on shaft. If the Gov weights are fully retracked(no run,static) which direction is screw driver held in at? I mean is the governor in full tilt at rest or in rest while off. I understand as the engine speed increases the weights inside swing outwards against the centrifugal weight springs on crankshaft right? As this happens arm moves to slow down Romo's which is set to(3600). As a load down on engine slows the internal retract thereby increasing rpm back up. If an engine is hunting there is slack in between the Gov shaft/ arm relation,the position of gov shaft carb /throttle plate's timing of opening or closing to increase or decrease fuel. But the Gov arm has to over come the secondary large outter spring which is used to keep throttle open? So if the governor is trying to close against the external spring,the internal weights are counter balancing in relation to engine speed and load which would slow down engine, cause increase in rpm while fighting against outter spring? So how does it go from idle to govern speed when I plug in a load from idle automagically?


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

Well drive assy done have to work on a fastener/holddown for future onto starter end shaft. Press fitted onto shaft end.


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

Well just a bit more done with mods,figured in drive couplings and working on finding a suitable torque tube / p.t.o. shaft deminsions a then a housing to join both sub-units to then be lined up with recoil cover. Have to make a central carrier from scrap, supports and through bolts with backing nuts on the housing and starter hold down once trued in for alignments. Hard part will be getting p.t.o. length dialed in to correct length. No binding or to much slack. I was thinking about a silicon shock absorber material for noise reduction. Maybe crean wrap nut a squeegee the silicon out between the nuts and sides of drive ends. But is it going to work . We will see. If it works for a windshield why not a a collar drive. It can maybe reduce vibration,chatter and wear. I hope. Trial and error.


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

I haven't drilled and tapped end shaft yet
I found a machine screw with Allen head for hold down of splined end. Just have to work it slowly.


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

Ok...I hit a hiccup, I was able to drill out a thread hole but can't tap it. What kind of steel is used for starter armature shafts? I have an 8/32 bolt and have enough meat. But the tap size is still kind of big for drilled hole. The hole is now 7/64, but the tap is 8/32.So what am I not doing right? The end of tap doesn't catch to cut, and sits on top of hole. Am I reading the gauges wrong for correct drill hole sizes for tap hole. Or is metal to hard for start up being again a tap for an open hole, with my needing a bottoming tap. The 8/32 broke so I tried using that and no dice...even after grinding it slim. No flutes needed to be sharpened do to break I figured. But a no-go. All stop as to a DFTU moment. Any advise. Will be appreciated.


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

I only gotten so far...but...that starter end shaft is going to be a problem. I think the hardness of the armature shaft. Or bolt hole to shaft i.d. thickness with splines ...thinning of walls. Wrong starter maybe to work with.


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

Well today I just gotten to the ratchet starter drive, found some stock Channel iron and cut ,form and shaped down over drive end. Shimmed up snout for some free play and will tack it up soon. Next step will be to figure a way to get it on end of grinder. A hub plate attachment/ flange from grinder plate assy with a rubber insulator between grinders two drive plates,and the hub flange will be studded onto ratchet drive. But we will see the mock up first. Have to meet in the middle first. Maybe be able to weld rachet's hub directly to the grinders screw on flange itself. Finding its center is going to be hard with that big ole shaft hole in it. But the good thing is that the D.O.R. will tighten all I have to do is drill it with one hole and use that as an alignment pin or use two ? Just to insure is doesn't back out for any dumb reason so there is no slack in drive assy at that point. And don't want to pull threads either from fatigue neither down the long road. Sorry I had grinder head pointing in wrong direction...lol


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

I am going to do a drastic measure, I am going to tig weld the nut onto the shaft end. Instead of all this tapping and shopping around. The starter is only a 20 dollar scooter starter...no big loss. I am going to use to steel nut instead of the brass nut. I read that the brass get porous and brittle when heated and mixed with filler metals...the wrong place is in a starter drive setup with a P.T.O. driven on an active drive setup. It would eat itself alive in a catastrophic failure without a carrier support like most other starter drives. Trk,car,cycles especially in close quarters. I've seen fan tower failure in tracks,so the shorter the better,just have to plan on a better design before implement. D.F.T.U. Hate to back up and regroup but adjustments before you hit the ground right? But it sucks now...not later...lol. does anyone tig weld? Since I haven't a clue yet I learned about d.c tig, I am looking at a Vulcan titanium or a HF165...I Think...I could mig but it isn't as clean as a tig. Learn sumum new, but do it once. Work smarter not harder.


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## finaprint (Jan 29, 2006)

Off a literal tapping mile with a 7/64 hole on 8-32 tap...................7/64 = .109, the 8-32 needs a .136 hole, requiring a #29 drill bit. When you custom tap the fractional drill bits miss most sizes needed.


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

Ok ...but what is a #29 bit in the fractional equivalent. In my junkbox I think is a 9/32 or 64 ? something. I am thinking about just tugging the end shaft with the 9/16ths collar,just ensure its squared on the shaft,press it on till the lands then tack it. I know the hex will not strip, if the splines are rigged with filler rod it will never come off...ever...lol. There is enough freeplay for no binding just in the design alone. I worked the other end and just have to reinforce the square drive's open end,so it doesn't splay open under torque. I know the welds ain't pretty,nor am I...lol. A rough ashler I am. Didn't have any hose clamps,or lace wire. I didn't feel the drive to auto zoom today. Now I need to make a 1/4 or 5/16ths. spacer disc to put between both of flanges,with a bolt hole tap to prevent back spinning.


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

Well halfway there now, now comes the time where both ends of a bridge meet. The mounting of the entire unit is really gonna be the fun part...lol.Hopefully the motor can turn over the engine without a hitch.


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## finaprint (Jan 29, 2006)

Numbered drill bits are not any fraction at all, the fractional ones will not provide the number of holes machinists need, the numbered ones fit in between fractions. 1/8" at .125 is the closest to the 29. 

You absolutely cannot tap all holes using simply fractional bits, they do not in most cases get the hole the correct size.

Not only are there numbered drill bits but lettered ones as well. A, B, C, etc.


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## finaprint (Jan 29, 2006)

https://www.brokenbolt.com/drill-tap-chart.php

Go down to the red Starrett chart and click on it to enlarge it.


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

Thanks man,that is why I love ya guys or girls, in a brotherly way thou...lol I learned something new every day. So that is a real complete set 0 bits then. I seen em run up in the 200-300 price range but wondered why. Never touched a complete set like that. We always had the basis sets. You know on a military tool truck that there were missing,broken,or burning bits that were rendered useless but were stuck back in there for accountability only...lol. I will look it up for that. Being able to do it right goes a long way. So as not destroying other tools in that process, it was turning into a goat float trying to get things planned down to a fractional sense....literally. I am going to have to make an investment or pay for it later. So a good investment is foresight in that it is there if needed then my running around in a crisis management sitrep. The drop in the bucket hurts thou either way...$$$$...lol thankyou again


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## finaprint (Jan 29, 2006)

Man, I don't even have a full set to match that chart, it would cost a fortune. Most of mine used for custom one-off repairs on cars, I simply buy the specialty bit size as needed one at a time for a job. Ace Hardware carries the numbered bits and the occasional lettered bit can often be fudged a bit by wobbling the next smaller bit in the hole a little to wallow it bigger. Careful does it. If I HAD to have the lettered one (for a bigger hole, wallowing won't cut it there) I have to go to a tooling supply.


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## Milton Fox Racing (May 27, 2014)

@TonyEMS30 - you mentioned military tool trucks. Would it be feasible to find a military surplus store near you and find a bit set with some as you noted - usless ones, but still have some servicable ones?

:lurk5:


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

Well I was walking into Harbor fruit and brought a set of complete bits I think 125 bit set,carbide....no sike... lol they are carbon frills. Like you guys say you just gotta have em..


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

It all started because of these.... it's the small things that get you huh? Well me anyway...lol


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

I have gotten stock flat iron,threaded 8/32 rod and 1/8 plate to make housing assy. Have to make a template for end cap to bolt motor to. Get end play adjustment right and weld up body to bolt height/distance. Weld carrier assy up,(tack) then final it out. Cut hole in shroud mount in and fire up ole girl. See how she will do. Waiting to exhale ova here....lol


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

Boy I am rusty with a tig...20+ my lungs. Looks like a text coupon w/hemorrhoids. Get back to ya'ss...pheeweee need alotta work. To ashamed to show it.


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

Haaaaaa,Haha haaaaa....I broke my tap in the drive head going to rachet drive so now I don't need a hold down bolt ...since I have a pi
n ....lol.Im going to bed....lol


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## Milton Fox Racing (May 27, 2014)




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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

I know...but I have my swim fins on already...lol


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

I find a way to copy a template easier then a machinist dye...aluminum foil...lol go figure. And was able to make an even pizza afterwards...lol


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

And away we go...


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

Come on ...really.


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

Well right tighty then, finally got hole sized,centered,and mocked up. Working on a way to make starter mount plate adjustable on top of carrier plate. Which is going to be tricky, it I can get it lined up true I just might as well tack it down and keep it simple. I was trying for an interference fit with starter flange neck going through its plate but hole saw is dull as a kazoo convention. I wish I knew how to roll the hole for a flared end hole,but I am limited to basic tools and skill levels. But save the fingers everyone...added security always get the insurance.


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

Now for the tricky richie part....line up plates and assy for tack welds, after I tack down bolt plate carrier posts over the hold down bolts.


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

Had to do a cut down fitment on plate.


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

Ok I finally got done with starter drive assy. Had to align, tack, grind inner plate, pilot hole both holds to use an adjustment slot setup. Tacked in PTO after adjusting in freeplay. Tested on a battery and she spun so effortlessly. Will see when loaded down with engine, bench tested first to make sure I didn't toast anything tacking it up. So now we will be working on the thru hole and center alignhole to rachet/starter set-up,not to mention a mounting point to hang the lil devil onto...most important aspect of all. I could be wrong....just not everyday
...I think? Most days of coarse I do.


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

Well so far holed out cover,shimmed gap with spacers and it is coming together nicely. Now just have to work out cover mounting to starter assy. And that will be that,just odd ends,before spool up after 10 +years as a paper weight...lol


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

And another thing....


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

Now I hit a wall, no skid marks,brake lights, or deflection. Just a mashed nose in,at the moment....the mounting point to engine ...I am working on a few ideas, and logistical issues at hand. I just hit stall and have to nose down alittle . But the first prototype is never perfect,functional yes,pretty no...lol


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

Ok I have an idea0, sitting there justa staring me in da face for a while. As my junk in the apartment fallen over,(I tripped...lol)...there it was ..a section of exhaust tubing I used as a baffle for my bike exhaust left over and just ah waving at me. Matched up perfect to the hole in cover exactly...I could "not" have planned it so well...just spooky man. But trimmed down to size squared off ends and will incorporate the scatter shield into that design as well. No sense in throwing it away right. Ermy doctrine is use em if ya got em. So as well as alittle more cutting,line ups, and tacking a mock up first. Then cut downs and finals on matching up all to a point and Viola..starter torque tube and mount bracket. Just needed a beer to hydrate mi brain. Ran a little dry on my gogo juice....


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

I will rabbit ear a 4 point mount to cover, line and index square drive and cover,tack it,rack it, and finish it up first with a spin test for clearance alignment issues. If all is well write it in stone as a done deal. Just wire in relay and push button for starter. Then we go long...lol assy rest of genny and heat the old girl up. He is my hero by the way, he should be runner up for the president of dem here Unified States of AmericA.


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

Sorry missed one...


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

Talk about rusty, I have alotta work to do...a shame to because I had learned years ago and tig welded my Audi 4000 trunk seat pan. And learned to tig while restoring my car. But I haven't been active till just recently after I put my foot through my truck floor board in its corner. SoI am forced retired and now bored out of my gord,so I gotta find things to do...and I got it now. But "I" am going to need the work more then the truck...lol. You be the judge.....bad huh,? Refresher class in session. Man do I suck for now. I will remaster my craft to its former glory,if you don't use it, you do loose it. No doubt. Muscle memory oh yeah and vision are very important. I am not handicapped but handi-capable. Just older and wiser do help. With patience and a little Johnny Walker Red go a long way. Whoahhhh.
Old Soldiers don't die off, we just wear glasses and reread the instructions 3 x times...lol


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

I known that I was in trouble when I welded my test coupon to the table, when I realized my amps where to high and I turned it down then I could see the puddle better. But I had the argon set to high, for the gauge metal 16 gauge I am using the wrong size tungsten also. And I blew off all the jargon in one sitting so now I have to go and get another tank also. No wonder I stuck to my mig. I wasn't paying for the argon at that time. Besides this is a smaller tank then my shop tank...lol A piece of work in progress. Everyday is a training day. No days off,no vacation,No Slack.


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

Finally got to PTO tube mock up,not much to kick at but it's a start...huh?


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

I found an exhaust pipe section and will cut down to right length so as to mount on gearhead assy with tinder's original assy parts... Get some...lol


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

Opps....I meant grinder's scatter shield as its mounting plate to torque tube. Align,size up distance to ratchet drives center. Then tack it in.


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

Well a big bunny rabbit walked onto my work table and left a whole bunch 0 pellets on my engine pto/torque assy and it is done... finally...lol. Now come assy and test. But I realize that I suck at welding if you have not welded in awhile to practice...dammmm...lol My hat is off to you mig-tiggers. It takes skillz and years of practice to master that....but its is done,not pretty but effective.


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

It will hold you can bet on dat...lol


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

Well call me Sally, it works. Now to remember to get the rest of it back together to do a run up now. Thankyou all for your help guys...I am going long on this one...haaaha oh poopy...


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## Milton Fox Racing (May 27, 2014)

Good job Sally! :cheers2:


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

Haahaa ha. Thanks


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

Now to get all the extra parts in a ziplock.....lol


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

HA ... I kill me...lol


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## Milton Fox Racing (May 27, 2014)

TonyEMS30 said:


> Now to get all the extra parts in a ziplock.....lol


Dont forget to label it. :cheers2:


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

What we don't need stupid ladels,we drink from grog....lol (laughter in manly man voice)...lol


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

What ya do. Is you.


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## Milton Fox Racing (May 27, 2014)

TonyEMS30 said:


> What ya do. Is you.


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## TonyEMS30 (Dec 28, 2018)

Community trough...B.Y.O.B....LOL


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