# Nascar stinks 101



## Jim Norton (Jun 29, 2007)

Watched tonight's Daytona race and what could have been an exciting finish......But, Nascar has this ridiculous yeloow line rule which is just another way to ruin stock car racing.

If you did not see the end it was four cars together when two cars pulled side by side across the finish line. Could have been a great finish but the car driven by Hamlin went below the yellow line and was "out of bounds."

Can you believe a phrase like "out of bounds" exists when it comes down to the win. I believe you should be able to pass on the apron, grass or whatever. Thats how it always used to be until Nascar became a show.

But what disapointed me was that there was no photo finish, no dispute, no nothing. I believe the car that went under the line crossed the finish line first. But nobody at Nascar seems to care...announcers and all and that is not racing.

Jim Norton
Huntsville, AL


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## Boosted-Z71 (Nov 26, 2007)

They all are given a turn to be either winning or whining, & its Nascar's choice on who wins what weekend (read as who pours the most sponsor $$$ into the Nascar till) That is why I basically quit watching several years ago, its a disgrace to all those who actually raced to refer to what they do now as "racing". I like the Lemans series & SCCA, just too bad they dont get the coverage.

Boosted


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

I'm sure Regan Smith feels the same way you do.
He had a win handed to Tony Stewart at Talladega a couple years ago because of the same rule.
If Hamlin would have followed the rule and not gone below the yellow line, he and Newman 
would have crashed. Hmmm, what to do. Well, Jeff Gordon crashed Harvick a couple of years
ago because he refused to go below the yellow line. I guess that's what Nascar wants,
more crashes. But, these rules are designed to promote safety, whatever.

Other than that, I thought the racing was pretty good, for two car racing.
I like the increased speed, and the fact that cars can work together and pull away.
What's that? A lapped car? I haven't seen that kind of obstacle at Daytona in 15 years!
'Working traffic' may actually be used in the broadcast booth again. I'm excited about 
the 500 for once in a long time. No wings, no splitters, faster speeds, and drafting 
may actually make a difference. Hopefully there will only be 8 cars on the lead lap to 
decide the green-white-checker finish.


Oh yeah, the Harvick 29 car looks tough in black. :thumbsup:


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## roadrner (Jul 21, 1999)

Is that stuff still on TV? I stopped watching a couple years ago except for the classic races on ESPN Classic every now and then.  rr


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## LeeRoy98 (Jul 8, 2005)

*Really?? Again??*

Sigh... :beatdeadhorse:

We get it... you don't like NASCAR... so stop watching!


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

All of the major professional racing organizations have rules that can be interpreted as reducing the on-track spectacle and drama for the sake of safety. All in all, NASCAR is probably better than most. The IndyCar series has been extremely frustrating of late with the questionable blocking penalties and the driver pool aligned around commercial sponsorship opportunities rather than skill and performance. Then there's F1, the so called pinnacle venue, with it's sticky and slimy leadership, capricious and arbitrary race changing calls by race stewards, not to mention the competition killing "team orders" and other tactics that do nothing except cheat the fans who paid those uber bucks to see a real race and end up witnessing a sham. 

If you want to see some pure racing, head on over to your local dirt track or drag strip and watch those somewhat crazy, slightly off kilter, and decidedly non photogenic guys and gals who trade paint and sweat 20W50 for a cheesy trophy and $500 bucks. No Caseys and Danicas and Big Money sponsorships but for the fans it's the same fun, excitement, and thrill without the 2 hour traffic jam each way and without the $6 hot dogs and sodas. 

I have nothing against pro sports, pro racing, or pro anything. But once you get to that level you have to answer to a lot more people with a lot more consideration for sustaining the business and creating and maintaining the product/venue. Keeping the drivers and fans safe is a really big deal and I think NASCAR places that above all other concerns, even if it takes a bit of the edge off the sporting event. It's a tradeoff that the NASCAR leadership is willing to make even if it frustrates us as fans.


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## SuperFist (Aug 7, 2005)

NASCAR blows.

__________________


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## brownie374 (Nov 21, 2007)

It didnt take long for the bitchin to start!


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## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

heck, they haven't even run a points race yet. as has been said many times. if you don't like what is on your TV, turn it OFF!


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## Brian 1811 (Jan 17, 2009)

I thought it was a good race but they all know the rules and hamlin knew he did not win the race and it seems like the winner is always on the higher part of the track anyways can not wait for the duals an the 500.


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## bigun624 (May 11, 2005)

What afxtoo said nothing beats saturday night dirt track racing, and it dont cost an arm and a leg to watch.


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## JDW (Oct 29, 2006)

Denny could have went high but he chose to go low he knew the line was there and knew Ryan would push him down what does that have to do with Nascar?

It was a great race sorry but its not 2001 anymore and the # 3 car is gone get over it.:wave:

It was sweet to see the Dodge get pushed up there even though it did not have enough power to win by its self.

First time in a long time I was on the edge of my seat at the end.

Jake


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## 440s-4ever (Feb 23, 2010)

I watched last night's race for free on a television! It was a great race with a great finish!

One thing you can count on with nascar, anytime a Busch wins there will be postings all over the net about how nascar stinks 

There are many boundaries on the track, including the start/finish line. Why not blame the finish line for being in the wrong spot? 30 feet forward or backward would've changed the outcome.

Besides, don't track boundaries make it just a little more like slot racing?

Anybody else having a hard time adjusting to a black 29 budweiser car?


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## 1976Cordoba (Sep 20, 2000)

The racing was pretty good, but I wish out of bounds didn't count anymore coming off turn four on the final lap. It will be interesting to see how the 500 pans out. It would be great to see about the last 30 or so laps with no yellows and no red flags - I think we could see a pack make a breakaway and shoot it out between 5 or 6 cars, old school style.


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## TomH (Jan 17, 2006)

I've looked at the finish replay many times, and I think Hamlin could have won it. He had the room to get through there without going under the line. Of course who knows what Newman would have done if he tried it. Newman is one of the toughest to pass out of all of them. Interesting that the only Dodge in the field won it.


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## LeeRoy98 (Jul 8, 2005)

AfxToo said:


> All of the major professional racing organizations have rules that can be interpreted as reducing the on-track spectacle and drama for the sake of safety. All in all, NASCAR is probably better than most. The IndyCar series has been extremely frustrating of late with the questionable blocking penalties and the driver pool aligned around commercial sponsorship opportunities rather than skill and performance. Then there's F1, the so called pinnacle venue, with it's sticky and slimy leadership, capricious and arbitrary race changing calls by race stewards, not to mention the competition killing "team orders" and other tactics that do nothing except cheat the fans who paid those uber bucks to see a real race and end up witnessing a sham.
> 
> If you want to see some pure racing, head on over to your local dirt track or drag strip and watch those somewhat crazy, slightly off kilter, and decidedly non photogenic guys and gals who trade paint and sweat 20W50 for a cheesy trophy and $500 bucks. No Caseys and Danicas and Big Money sponsorships but for the fans it's the same fun, excitement, and thrill without the 2 hour traffic jam each way and without the $6 hot dogs and sodas.
> 
> I have nothing against pro sports, pro racing, or pro anything. But once you get to that level you have to answer to a lot more people with a lot more consideration for sustaining the business and creating and maintaining the product/venue. Keeping the drivers and fans safe is a really big deal and I think NASCAR places that above all other concerns, even if it takes a bit of the edge off the sporting event. It's a tradeoff that the NASCAR leadership is willing to make even if it frustrates us as fans.


Very well stated... thanks! 
That reminds me... I need to check with my local track to get the date for their opener. 

Gary
AKA LeeRoy98
www.marioncountyraceway.com


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## ctsvowner (Aug 9, 2010)

It was good background noise for my slot car tuning time.


Man I got this non mag AFX 4 gear to fly. Shaweeeet


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

I think what has been lost here is an incredible feat.
Penzoil/Shell won their third shootout in a row, despite changing drivers, teams, and car brand.
This is totally convincing that Shell gasoline is indeed better than Sunoco, and, apparently Mobil.
I wonder how Harvick felt seeing his old colors win the shootout without him.

That whole swap was kinda weird though. I mean, Kurt Busch has become the face of 
Miller beer in Nascar, much like Rusty Wallace before him, and Bobby Allison before that.
To pull him out of that car and put Brad K. in the car was odd. 
I don't know if Brad is old enough to drink beer in the winners circle.

Oh yeah, I'm still diggin that black 29 car. :thumbsup:


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## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

NTx, I hope that comment about the gas brands is tongue in cheek, sarcastic, an aside ... so to speak. NASCAR requires all the cars to run the exact same Sunoco fuel for all races, practice and testing (which is only allowed for the Goodyear tire company).


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## joegri (Feb 13, 2008)

i like real sized racecars and sooo glad i can go to a trak that is,nt too far away. the wheelan modified tour is my jones and i,ll be lookin for the icebreaker race that should be comming up soon!till then i might watch some cookie cutter racin till i get board with it. the" tona "looks great with the new surface!but yes nasa car has lost a step or 2 but i still kinda like it. that does,nt sound like a big endorsement but i t,s racin in february!so lets see some racin kinda gets ya goin.


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## sauce (Dec 30, 2010)

alpink said:


> heck, they haven't even run a points race yet. as has been said many times. if you don't like what is on your TV, turn it OFF!


But my TV told me not too!!!!!!:freak:


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

Yes Al,
We experts of the Nascar community are privy to that, but to the general public, the Shell
car certainly is running on Shell gasoline. It's the marketing machine working its magic.
And, with a Daytona 500 victory in 07, and victory in the last 3 shootouts, it's no wonder
Sunoco has been crying about Shell being in the Sprint Cup.
No worries, gasoline is a thing of the past with Nascar switching to ethanol in 2012,
and going full electric in 2019. Enjoy the high octane exhaust while you can.


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## brownie374 (Nov 21, 2007)

alpink said:


> heck, they haven't even run a points race yet. as has been said many times. if you don't like what is on your TV, turn it OFF!


Well said!


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## joegri (Feb 13, 2008)

now that has my interest full electic in 2019? is that true. i,d watch that.what are those ecars called ?diablo or something like that. i saw a gullwing mercedes on the tv lastnite allwheeldrive 400 plus horse full electric no gas. battery powered. ya gotta save room in yer mind for something like that. imageine that speed with no sound cept 4 the tires whinin! could be pretty cool.


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

It's not official, but it was in that healthcare plan.

You gotta admit, that would be an interesting series. 
I bet there would be plenty of innovation to go around. Cars would be rushed to market.
I would like to see a series like that.


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## Super Coupe (Feb 16, 2010)

If they go electric,that's going to be a big tangled mess with all those extension cords going all over the place.lol 
>Tom<


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## slotcarman12078 (Oct 3, 2008)

joegri said:


> now that has my interest full electic in 2019? is that true. i,d watch that.what are those ecars called ?diablo or something like that. i saw a gullwing mercedes on the tv lastnite allwheeldrive 400 plus horse full electric no gas. battery powered. ya gotta save room in yer mind for something like that. imageine that speed with no sound cept 4 the tires whinin! could be pretty cool.


Kinda like going from sectional track to routed? :lol:


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## Jim Norton (Jun 29, 2007)

Here is an idea. Remove the pavement below the yellow line. Why even have it if you are not allowed to race on it?!

Jim Norton
Huntsville, AL


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## Pomfish (Oct 25, 2003)

I can't believe you guys haven't figured it out yet.
This new 2 by 2 "Tango" plate racing has really been designed in secret with Na$car by Mattel to sell the old Tyco TR-X Racesets from the 1980's.
http://slotcarcentral.com/mm5/merch...&Product_Code=1TT4THSC1TT&Category_Code=HRTLN

They were a flop then, but now with the new Na$car aero packages they are sure to be a hit.
Each set will come with a pair of each team.
Hendrick vs RCR, Rousch vs Rousch (at least a Ford would win
Etc.
It's the new thing, 4 car team racing!

Here's an old thread about TR-X, if you don't remember it:
http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=284064


This is not a Slam on Nascar, I just couldn't stop myself from thinking TR-X racing as I watched 10 sets of cars racing each other, it's jsust bizarre looking.


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## coach61 (Sep 6, 2004)

March 4-5, 2011 - Texas World Dirt Track Championship

Join us as the 2011 racing season kicks off at the Texas World Dirt Track Championship at Texas Motor Speedway’s Dirt Track, and you’ll enjoy a weekend of great racing action at family-affordable prices!


$15 Bucks for Saturday or 25 for the whole weekend...for the price of a AW Slot ya'all can have one heck of a lot of fun..


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## Slott V (Feb 3, 2005)

There shouldn't be a yellow line rule on oval racing. The grass should be a good enough boundary and obvious deterent to passing on the inside. If you need the yellow line rule, then make it disappear after the white flag and if someone pushes you below the line it's GAME ON.


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## Jim Norton (Jun 29, 2007)

Is there any other sport that has lost so many fans because of so many alterations to the game? I can't think of any other governing body that has done more to detsroy what they oversee than Nascar has.



Jim Norton
Huntsville, AL


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## smalltime (Jun 3, 2006)

There are a few good races to go to when it comes to dirt style racing. The Knoxville Nationals, The King's Royal, The Hut Hundred just to name a few. But by far the best show I've seen for a one night show Is the Knoxville 360 Nationals.

We showed up at 4:00 pm, did the museum and grabbed a pizza. Sat down at 7:00 and never had to wait longer than 5 minutes for the next heat. That track REALLY knows how to put on a show.
And the racin' was awsome to boot!


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## 440s-4ever (Feb 23, 2010)

Jim Norton said:


> Is there any other sport that has lost so many fans because of so many alterations to the game? I can't think of any other governing body that has done more to detsroy what they oversee than Nascar has.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Name another sport linked to technology and you'll be naming a sport that changes tremendously every 10-15 years.


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

Yeah, the NFL aint what it was when I was growing up. 
You used to know the team roster by heart. Maybe 10% changed teams.
Trades were a big deal, and 'free agent' meant you got cut by another team.
Free agency and salary caps have just killed all the sports to me. You can't follow a team like before.
I get the money situation, and marketing players, but it sure takes alot out of the game.
Now, Nascar has always had a silly season. Some drivers drove for several teams in one season.
It's kind of a different situation though, and I always felt like Nascar did a good fair job keeping up,
except for poor ol Bobby Allison in 1970.

It's a shame that Nascar wants to be MORE like stick and ball sports. A playoff???
I was hoping that they would get rid of that 'chase' while they were redoing the points system.
It's the rules for now, but it sure seems like the real race season is over after race 26,
and an exhibition season starts for the last ten races.

The tech and safety improvements have been great. 
I think the look of the cars is more the fault of the manufacturers than of Nascars.
The complaints we have had on this board are opinions, and really haven't netted much,
except to show that at least half the fan base, and drivers agree.
After all, we didn't fill the stands of most of the tracks in the 80s, 90s, and early 2000s.
We merely observe reasons why the stands have been half empty for the past few years.
For now, the yellow line, and the chase are the rules.

I think a couple of improvements are ...

1 The previously stated 'no yellow line on the last lap'
For safety, I can see the yellow line rule during the race. 
There have been a number of crashes during the race because of guys diving below the yellow line,
but this rule hasn't stopped guys from wrecking at the end of the race, so why have it.

2 Race to the line on the last lap, no matter what.
Again, for safety, I can see freezing positions on a caution flag during a race.
With the lucky dog rule, there is no ill effects from this. (I'm still on the fence about the lucky dog rule)
But, man, it bugs me to no end to see the race end on the backstretch because of a wreck somewhere behind the leaders.


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## Slott V (Feb 3, 2005)

The fun police just killed Daytona. Drivers should know better than to say they were having fun doing 205. $20 million to make Daytona better so you better slow it down and bring back the bunch-up boredom! :freak:

http://www.nascar.com/news/110216/restrictor-plate-size-reduced/index.html


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## 1976Cordoba (Sep 20, 2000)

I think I'd LMAO if they still ran 206 - HAR! You know those teams are working 24/7 to get that speed back.


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

440s-4ever said:


> Name another sport linked to technology and you'll be naming a sport that changes tremendously every 10-15 years.


 Golf. Technology has killed the sport and reduced it to a pure power game. I am waiting for the day they invent the club and ball combination that goes where you want it to go no matter how bad your swing may be. Each technology advance reduces some aspect of human skill. 

Tennis may get there one day too, where the only thing that matters is the serve; get it in and you win the point.

As far as NASCAR goes, I would like to see two rule changes:

1. No pit stops on yellow flags. This preserves the running order at the time of the caution and causes all advances in position to be done under green.

2. The cars restart in the order they were on the track at the time of caution; you do not bring all the lead lap cars to the front. Again, all position advances must be done under green.

These two simple rule changes make the whole race matter. If you put lap cars between you and the guy behind you, he has to pass them under green and not be given a free pass on each caution. Otherwise I can watch only the last few laps since there will probably be a caution and they'll wipe out any distance between the cars.

Joe


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## 1976Cordoba (Sep 20, 2000)

Was it just me or did the commentators today make absolutely no mention whatsoever to lap speeds during the twin qualifying races?


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

Watching the reruns tonight. I haven't heard any mention of the speeds.


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## Super Coupe (Feb 16, 2010)

Just seen some speeds--192-194 mph. >Tom<


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## plymouth71 (Dec 14, 2009)

I'm going to the Phoenix race... I'll let you know how it was...


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## TK Solver (Mar 18, 2004)

I thought today's race was pretty good from start to finish. Because of all the changes to the track and cars, this race required skill, patience, guts, luck, and faith -- congratulations to Trevor Bayne!


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## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

what TK said!


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