# Lipo Care and Feeding



## tuftiger (Jan 2, 2007)

I am fairly new to Lipo. I understand the charge and balance procedures but can't find out if a discharge cycle is required like on the Nimh batteries.

Any help would be appreciated


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## harmocy (Jan 11, 2007)

Do Not Discharge Or You Will Be Sorry!!!


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## nutz4rc (Oct 14, 2003)

I have never done a discharge cycle on mine and after a year and half, they all run like new and are still in balance. I ran my Orions for a year before I bought a balancer and they were off .001 volts between the cells. Some balance every time and some discharge; it is more of a personal preference.


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## harmocy (Jan 11, 2007)

That is because Orion lipos rule and they only put the balance port so that people who think they need them will buy em!!!


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## Flipper13 (Jan 13, 2007)

harmocy why?? discharge mine after every race day


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## CClay1282 (Jan 5, 2006)

I store my lipos between 7.4 and 7.6 volts. So if after i run its in that range, i dont do anything.


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## King Dork (Nov 23, 2008)

Lipos are supposed to be stored with charge in them, not in a discharged state. Discharging a lipo does nothing to increase the performance of the battery. Also, balancing is not neccessary all the time. I ran mine every weekend for 3 months, hooked it up to the balancer, and it was still in balance. These are very low maintenance batteries.


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## CClay1282 (Jan 5, 2006)

The only way the lipos stay in balance that good is if they are good quality packs to begin with. My SMC stays in balance very well. My buddy has some cheap ones and they go out of balance every run!


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## King Dork (Nov 23, 2008)

No doubt about it. I can go for months at a time with my Peak or Checkpoint and 9 out of 10 times they're still reading balanced. I just find it funny how so many people I've heard on many forums who say you should balance your lipo EVERY time you run it and discharge them as well. Too many people are moving on to newer, better technology and still treating them like NiMH packs. Will it hurt a lipo to balance it every time you charge it? Heck no. Is it needed? Heck no. This is why I love this hobby. Very amusing:tongue:.


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## kra2y (May 31, 2008)

Harmocy is wrong about discharging


If lipos are to be stored for more than a couple of months they are not supposed to be fully charged nor fully discharged. They are supposed to be at 50% charged or 50% discharged, either way the same thing. This is what lipo manufacturers suggest. Discharging lipos is perfectly fine if you don't Disharge below 3.0 volts per cell.


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## harmocy (Jan 11, 2007)

kra2y said:


> Harmocy is wrong about discharging
> 
> 
> If lipos are to be stored for more than a couple of months they are not supposed to be fully charged nor fully discharged. They are supposed to be at 50% charged or 50% discharged, either way the same thing. This is what lipo manufacturers suggest. Discharging lipos is perfectly fine if you don't Disharge below 3.0 volts per cell.


First off what i was meaning was not to discharge like nimh but since you are schooling why dont you tell me more why should you discharge them??? And why should you store them at 50% because fom what I have been told by the manufactures at some of the biggest races in the country is they have absoluly no memory so the bat does not know weither it is 100% charged or 50% so help me out please...


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## harmocy (Jan 11, 2007)

This is from orions web site

More power, more punch, more runtime, more durable, less weight, less maintenance, longer lifetime!
Team Orion has spent years in research and development most of that time working with Kokam®, the world leader in Lithium Polymer technology, to develop the pinnacle in battery performance. Whether you are after long runtimes and running with your friends (Platinum), wanting a lighter smaller package for racing or the ultimate upgrade from a stick pack(Carbon) Team Orion has the best solution for you in today's next level battery world. There will be many imitators but there is is only one true innovator and Team Orion SLPB is it. 

Team Orion's SLPB Li-Po battery packs features more capacity and lower internal resistance than 
standard Ni-MH batteries of the same capacity. Kokam® SLPB cells are used exclusively to ensure the highest level of safety and quality in the industry. 

Why go Li-Po? 
• Up to 30% longer runtime than traditional NiMH/NiCd (of the same capacity)
• Up to 40% lighter weight than traditional NiMH/NiCd (of the same capacity)
• Precision cell fusion technology virtually eliminates internal resistance
• Li-Po power delivery ensures maximum power throughout the discharge cycle
• Can be used and recharged unlimited times per session
• Less energy is lost to heat equals greater power output
• Safer then NiMH batteries even meets IATA regulations for international air shipment
• Fits 90% of 1/10 scale chassis with little or no modification
• Battery can be charged days, even weeks, ahead of time
• No complicated maintenance or conditioning required
• Cost is far less over time due to a lifespan that is up to 10 times that of NiMH/NiCd
• Kokam manufactured ensures the most reliable and safest Li-Po on the market
• Perfect for tracks lookng for an equal playing field
• Sealed case and stable voltage makes cells easy to tech
• Balancing port included for those that feel the need


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## harmocy (Jan 11, 2007)

I like the part where it says that you can charge them days, even weeks ahead of time!!! LOL!!!


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## harmocy (Jan 11, 2007)

Here is how to check to see if you need to balance

As many of you know it is very rare if ever under normal use that you will need to balance your Team Orion LiPo batteries. However due to mishandling, abuse or after hundreds of cycles should your Team Orion LiPo ever go out of balance we have outlined methods for correction.

First, signs that your battery may be in need of balancing are?

• Shortened run time
• Charger voltage error
• Low voltage (no punch)

If you experience any of these it is advised that you check the voltage of each cell with a volt meter using the following method:

1. Place the volt meter negative to the negative on the battery

2. Place the volt meter positive to the balancing port.

This will give you the voltage of cell one.

3. Place the volt meter positive to the positive on the battery

4. Place the volt meter negative to the balancing port.

This will give you the voltage of cell two.

Both cells should read within .03 volts of each other and should each read at least 4.15 volts each when fully charged and no lower then 2.7 volts ever.

If your cells are out of balance then you can charge each cell using the same connection method you used above to check the cell voltage and setting your charger for the following:1 cell, 3.7 volts, and 1C = .1 Amp for every 100mAh


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## ta_man (Apr 10, 2005)

The reason for discharging them is because a LiPo battery loses capacity faster when stored with a high percentage of total charge than when stored with a lower percentage of total charge. Danny (SMC) recommends 40% or less charge when being stored.

It probably doesn't matter to guys that get fresh batteries frequently.

It is also true that you will find information that contradicts this recommendation. But since I use SMC batteries, and Danny has reported a loss of runtime (sufficient to be measured) when storing SMC LiPo batteries at 100% charge. I will discharge mine. But that's just me.


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## harmocy (Jan 11, 2007)

Well that is cool but to be honest who needs runtime with lipos???


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## CClay1282 (Jan 5, 2006)

harmocy said:


> Do Not Discharge Or You Will Be Sorry!!!


What is wrong with discharging? Arent you doing the same thing when you plug it in to your RC and pull the trigger?

As long as you dont go below 3.0 volts per cell, discharging is fine.

It is important to keep your pack balanced though, as charging or discharging with the pack out of balance can cause one of the cells go above 4.2 volts or below 3.0 volts.


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## CClay1282 (Jan 5, 2006)

harmocy said:


> Well that is cool but to be honest who needs runtime with lipos???


Some people care about keeping lipos at the best performance. I dont care what they say about memory or anything else, lipos have their own way of taking care of them. Do it right, or the batt will not perform well for as long.


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## ta_man (Apr 10, 2005)

harmocy said:


> Well that is cool but to be honest who needs runtime with lipos???


More total runtime means higher voltage in the part of the discharge curve you actually use. (Same as with NiMH.)

Who doesn't want voltage?


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## harmocy (Jan 11, 2007)

ta_man said:


> More total runtime means higher voltage in the part of the discharge curve you actually use. (Same as with NiMH.)
> 
> Who doesn't want voltage?


This is not totally true that is why lipos are so cool the punch is almost the same aross the board at least this is my understanding maybe you can help me with some info on that part of it...


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## CClay1282 (Jan 5, 2006)

If you ever do any cycling on a GFX, watch the numbers. You will be surprised!


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## ta_man (Apr 10, 2005)

harmocy said:


> This is not totally true that is why lipos are so cool the punch is almost the same aross the board at least this is my understanding maybe you can help me with some info on that part of it...


It is totally true. "Almost the same" is not "the same". The "punch" is the result of the low internal resistance. And guess what? Just like NiMH, they have lower internal resistance the fuller they are.



CClay1282 said:


> If you ever do any cycling on a GFX, watch the numbers. You will be surprised!


Exactly. I discharge them on a GFX and you can watch the nice even slope of the voltage curve. It goes down very uniformly as the pack discharges.


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## Loopedout (Mar 3, 2008)

Heres my lipo question, the guys at my track are charging at 8-10 amps for 2s packs, I see most guys list they charge at 5 amps which seems to be the limit of most of the lipo chargers out there. What gains are to be seen charging at 8 amps and what negatives would there be?


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## ta_man (Apr 10, 2005)

SMC says their 28C and 40C packs can be charged at 2C (that's up to 10 amps for the 5000 pack). Other vendors also state that some of their packs may be charged at 2C. I got a common-sense RC LiPo pack for my mini and it says "2C charge capable" on the label. I think the only advantage is that it gets done charging faster.

The negative is that cycle life may be reduced.


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## Loopedout (Mar 3, 2008)

Not that I would think a performance gain is needed but would there be at 8-10 amps. Can anyone confirm a cycle life reduction with the higher charge rates?


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## ta_man (Apr 10, 2005)

Loopedout said:


> Not that I would think a performance gain is needed but would there be at 8-10 amps. Can anyone confirm a cycle life reduction with the higher charge rates?


The way I see LiPos being sold on HobbyTalk, I doubt anyone here keeps them long enough to notice a reduction in life cycle.


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## desidriver (Apr 10, 2009)

*nice*

nice nice nice


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## SMROCKET (Nov 16, 2001)

I have been dumping 2c lipos at 40 amps and charging at 20 amps ... over the last 10 cycles the packs havent changed 1 bit .... So much for manufactors recommedations ... We will see 75 amp dumps and 20 amp charges in the near future for most racers SRM


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## brian0525 (Jan 17, 2005)

SMROCKET said:


> I have been dumping 2c lipos at 40 amps and charging at 20 amps ... over the last 10 cycles the packs havent changed 1 bit .... So much for manufactors recommedations ... We will see 75 amp dumps and 20 amp charges in the near future for most racers SRM


Rocket fuel !!!!!!!! :thumbsup:


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## aleinlegs (Apr 13, 2009)

tuftiger said:


> I am fairly new to Lipo. I understand the charge and balance procedures but can't find out if a discharge cycle is required like on the Nimh batteries.
> 
> Any help would be appreciated


do you have to discharge nimh batteries, i have not been doing that, and if so, how do you do that


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## XXX-Steve (Oct 23, 2008)

What's the longest you can store a LiPo without charging it?


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## penguineman (Apr 15, 2009)

which is better a balancing charger or using a balancing bug ?? any thoughts on this


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## CClay1282 (Jan 5, 2006)

Either way should work just fine. Just as long as the pack stays balanced.


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## katf1sh (Jan 17, 2002)

SMROCKET said:


> I have been dumping 2c lipos at 40 amps and charging at 20 amps ... over the last 10 cycles the packs havent changed 1 bit .... So much for manufactors recommedations ... We will see 75 amp dumps and 20 amp charges in the near future for most racers SRM


 
amen bruther! UNLESS YOU USE A SISSY PACK!


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## ta_man (Apr 10, 2005)

penguineman said:


> which is better a balancing charger or using a balancing bug ?? any thoughts on this


A balancing charger should charge faster because there will be no voltage drop through an inline balancer, thus the constant current phase will last longer.

My Hyperion chargers with integrated balancers charge must faster than using my ICE and an inline balancer.


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## DigitalGangster (Apr 20, 2009)

whats the best pack out to you people on this little thread here? for 4wd offroad.. ? iv only experienced the RIP of SMC 4900's i believe they are the top notch but i want to get a bit more ridiculous any suggestions ??


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## CClay1282 (Jan 5, 2006)

SMC or thunder power! Best there is! (IMHO)


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## CClay1282 (Jan 5, 2006)

ta_man said:


> My Hyperion chargers with integrated balancers charge must faster than using my ICE and an inline balancer.


The ices are slow anyway. I use a GFX with a blinky balancer that just plugs in the balance port and it works great.


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