# Your Input Needed For Future LifeLike Body Style Direction



## neorules

Hey Guys, I'm Hoping to get some help from all of you HO slotcar Hobbyists with regards to LifeLikes' future offerings. I organized and ran the LifeLike challenge at this years HOPRA Nats. I had the pleasure of working with some fine people at Walthers/Lifelike. I have since kept in contact with a number of these people. Today I was talking with A top developer and decision maker regarding the lifelike line. He requested some feedback from the racers. Your feedback is critical in deciding which way the company may go regarding future offerings. Here are his questions seeing that the company's Nascar line is pretty well set with the COT right now.

"My question is: Would customers prefer to see vintage cars, muscle cars,etc or go for the hot new cars like the new Camaro, Corvettes, ShelbyMustang etc. The 2005 Mustang GT did very well, so I know that has some appeal.

Second question is more open - what cars would you like to see from Life-Like in the long-term? 

Third question - what track & accessories are most needed that people would buy? There are so many things we COULD do, I need the help in whittling it downto what would be best-sellers. Those successes would pay for futuredevelopment. Thanks again!

Thanks guys for any help you could offer.


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## 1976Cordoba

neorules said:


> "My question is: Would customers prefer to see vintage cars, muscle cars,etc or go for the hot new cars like the new Camaro, Corvettes, ShelbyMustang etc. The 2005 Mustang GT did very well, so I know that has some appeal.
> *I personally would prefer the newer cars, particularly racing cars such as the GT class cars that race in the ALMS series like the Corvette C6-R, Aston Martin DBR9, Ferrari F430, Porsche 911GT3, Ford GT, etc. etc. I think the vintage lines are pretty well represented in the hobby already.*
> 
> Second question is more open - what cars would you like to see from Life-Like in the long-term? _*Aside from the new sports car mentioned, since Life Like is in bed with the NASCAR license, how about a historical series of stock cars with some old Chargers, Monte Carlos, Cutlasses, Torinos, Cyclones, etc.? A new narrow chassis for a modern Indy or F1-style car would be neat too. Tuner cars, although not my thing, would appeal to the younger set and they are the future.*_
> 
> Third question - what track & accessories are most needed that people would buy? There are so many things we COULD do, I need the help in whittling it downto what would be best-sellers. Those successes would pay for futuredevelopment. Thanks again! _*How about some wide radius banked turns, say a 21" & 24" set that can nest side by side for a 4-lane option, say at about 25 degrees of bank? How about better track connections for Life Like? How about scenery items like a modern aluminum-style grandstand? How about a 'fan pak' to populate said grandstands? How about little HO race car mechanics or turn marshals? Race officials. You'll get plenty of responses on this one . . . this is just what I thought of in about 30 seconds.*_
> 
> Thanks guys for any help you could offer.


How's that for a starter?


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## resinmonger

1:64 scale people would be cool. Walthers carries Preiser. They have 1:87 and 1:72 figures that could be produced in 1:64 for good results. Some slot heads are buying the existing Preiser figures now. However, the Lifelike (as well as Tomy and Mattel) line is 1:64. Mechanics, setting and standing spectators and track workers would sell. That would give Lifelike customers among racers that don't buy their cars. Some sample existing figures to produce in 1:62 are

http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/590-72512

http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/590-68212

http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/590-68210

http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/590-68203

http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/590-68204

Modern and near modern street and GT cars would work. Mattel is not releasing new items and Tomy is limited to a few a year. There is a void to fill.


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## micyou03

What doba said!


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## ScottD961

1976Cordoba said:


> How's that for a starter?


Nuff Said !:woohoo::wave::thumbsup:


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## SuperFist

I would like to see LifeLike make some of these vintage Nissan 240Z bodies like Rokar made.
They were the most popular Rokar slot cars.

They have a real nice stance with their flared fender wells and spoilers.










__________________


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## martybauer31

I would love to see the old monte carlos, torino's, etc. running around the track, old school Nascar style as well.

Ditch the T and go back to the M chassis, something that can be a little more open in the upgrade department...


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## SuperFist

martybauer31 said:


> ...Ditch the T and go back to the M chassis, something that can be a little more open in the upgrade department...


Yes.









__________________


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## Pete McKay

M-Chassis, and how about a generally shaped Daytona Prototype that can be done in so many ALMS schemes that you'd never get tired of it.

Accessories: How about an old style lap counter/timer with a refueling function that brings in racing strategy. I had one of the old A/FX stations like that once, it was continually rebuilt until it finally died.


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## NTxSlotCars

How about all the stuff Mattel is NOT doing?
So much mentioned before, scenery, people, old cars, new cars and BRING BACK THE M!!!
Does the guy you talked to know how much used LL track is going for on ebay? Nothing. Why? Because they don`t offer enough turn options to make a good four lane track. If they made the turns, we would find a way to make the connections work. Look at the poor quality coming from Tomy, and yet just because they offer more turn options, Tomy used track is worth more. Why kill the M?

Rich


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## NTxSlotCars

Oh, and along with that seventies stock car stuff, I would like to see some eighties stuff to, like a better Tbird and an aerocoupe Monte Carlo.
ON AN M CHASSIS!!!!

por favor
Rich


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## Montoya1

#1 for me would be a bigger variety of turns, and get rid of that ridge in the middle of the track

#2 would be a chassis which is narrow, taking advantage of that unique can motor

#3 would be some IMSA or ALMS cars


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## roadrner

Looks like you have a good start so far. One thing they might consider since their track has been it's weakest sales point. Redesign the earlier mentioned flawes out of their current product and consider making a 4 lane version as well. I'd consider a one piece 4 laner sectioned track to replace the current TOMY one I use if the quality was there. Would be nice not to have gaps to fill in on the turns.  rr


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## AfxToo

Good job Bob on keeping the dialog open.

Big, realistic banked corners are a no brainer. The only problem is that very few racers use LL track. If LL wants to cannibalize some of Tomy's market, just build these corners to the Tomy spec. AW did it but provided no new compelling pieces. Since the LL track has such low acceptance by racers changing over to Tomy spec track as a "Pro Series" line may make sense with a gradual replacement of the current LL track over time with the new Tomy-compatible format. They already make adapters. While Tomy track has some shortcomings it is very widely accepted and the defacto standard for racers building setups from snap together track. Having some compelling new pieces like realistic banks and larger nestable chicanes that I could drop into any Tomy layout would have immediate value. Designing an entirely new track format requiring all new molds would seemingly be cost prohibitive to LL and still have a problem trying to unseat Tomy.

Anything on the scenery front would be most welcome. When I look through the Walther catalog I'm always hoping to find RR structures that I can adapt to HO slot car use, mostly to no avail. Some purpose built HO slot car racing accessories and structures would be most welcome. We need more auto racing specific scenery and structures. Look at what the 1:32 scale guys have and give us the same. Putting some of the smaller items like pit crews, tool boxes, tools, tire racks, compressors, air guns and hoses, etc., in a premium "diorama package" option to sell through the car sales channel would be great. Branded haulers, while done before in small numbers by Tyco, would be be even better if done in modern forms and with current team colors, both for NASCAR and F1. 

A combination scenic bridge with and integrated timing system would be most welcome. Something akin to the bridge structure at Dover with an integrated lap counter and timer. Simple, totally self contained, and geared for home use. 

I brought up the cluster-of-fans thing to them earlier when they indicated to me that making individual scenic people is an expensive undertaking. (Unless you want a bunch of lime green and hot pink fans from a Hong Kong fashion show...). If Walthers would simply make some attractive, scenery quality, but still totally rugged racing style guard rails for HO they'd get 100% market share very quickly. Every one of the current HO guard rails look like a crude afterthought. 

Changing back to the M chassis would be very cost prohibitive. The T chassis is obviously less expensive to manufacture. A compromise would be to slightly tweak the T chassis so the motor box can be snapped in and out easily by the customer. Make the motors boxes available separately. No soldering required. Offering up different grade motors would be interesting, but again could be a cost issue. Enabling the snap-in replacement motor box would spur aftermarket producers to come up with innovative upgrades. Also make the chassis electrical conductors available separately and perhaps in plated grades. The bottom line, stop treating the T chassis like a throw away. Beef it up and make it serviceable. It has the performance, it just needs work in the serviceability area. 

Here's some quick hitters: Bring back the Rokar/LL open wheeled bodies painted in modern liveries. While these are not up to the precise modeling quality of the upcoming RaceMasters products, they are very pleasant to look at and to use. I would buy one of every color scheme offered. Walthers must have the molds for these so resurrecting them with decent paint schemes should be a quick hit. Same for the existing LL Porsche 911 body. Start cranking those out with nice, conservative paint schemes (no lightning bolts) and racers will snap them up in bulk. If the old Rokar 240z body mold is still laying around somewhere, please start using it. 

Finally, keep doing what you're doing with the NASCAR line. Nobody else has that market covered and the quality of the LL cars in this area have just gotten better over the last couple of years, during the Walthers era. Keep 'em coming and expand the liveries.


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## videojimmy

Hot Rods and Mussle cars...Hot Rods and Mussle cars....Hot Rods and Mussle cars....
Hot Rods and Mussle cars....Hot Rods and Mussle cars....Hot Rods and Mussle cars...
Hot Rods and Mussle cars... Hot Rods and Mussle cars...Hot Rods and Mussle cars..... 


uh, have I made my point?

hehehehe

Some nicer rims would be cool too!


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## neorules

Guys--- great suggestions--- keep-em coming. I too had inquired last year about the Datsun and Porsche bodies Rokar had. It seems the molds were not included with the Rokar sale to Life-like or never sold to Walthers if they were. A quick call to John Cukras had him confirm that the molds for these were originally Cox's property and he did not know thier whereabouts.


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## rudykizuty

Vintage NASCAR bodies and paint schemes would be a HUGE hit. And dedicated race facility structures and accessories would also go a long way.


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## wm_brant

AfxToo said:


> Good job Bob on keeping the dialog open.
> 
> Big, realistic banked corners are a no brainer. The only problem is that very few racers use LL track. If LL wants to cannibalize some of Tomy's market, just build these corners to the Tomy spec. AW did it but provided no new compelling pieces. Since the LL track has such low acceptance by racers changing over to Tomy spec track as a "Pro Series" line may make sense with a gradual replacement of the current LL track over time with the new Tomy-compatible format. They already make adapters. While Tomy track has some shortcomings it is very widely accepted and the defacto standard for racers building setups from snap together track. Having some compelling new pieces like realistic banks and larger nestable chicanes that I could drop into any Tomy layout would have immediate value. Designing an entirely new track format requiring all new molds would seemingly be cost prohibitive to LL and still have a problem trying to unseat Tomy.


Another alternative would be to adopt the old Tyco track design. Spend your dollars on developing track pieces that Mattel has dropped or never had. Buy the more mundane pieces from Mattel for sets. LL could even offer to sell Mattel some track, if they ever felt the need.

Old Tyco customers would want to buy the new pieces, as would new customers who want to build new tracks using your pieces. If it makes financial sense, start replacing the Mattel pieces with your own equivalents over time.

The person called 'Grandcheapskate' on this board has some already-made molds for some of the missing Tyco track pieces that I'm sure that he would be willing to part with for a reasonable price.

-- Bill


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## ScottD961

:thumbsup:


videojimmy said:


> Hot Rods and Mussle cars...Hot Rods and Mussle cars....Hot Rods and Mussle cars....
> Hot Rods and Mussle cars....Hot Rods and Mussle cars....Hot Rods and Mussle cars...
> Hot Rods and Mussle cars... Hot Rods and Mussle cars...Hot Rods and Mussle cars.....
> 
> Some nicer rims would be cool too!


Couldn't have said it better. As long as they continue to turn out jelly bean nascars with different liveries I will continue to not buy them ! I know a lot of you like nascar and that s cool but I'm not interested in them at all so my money will go else where until they come out with some other type of car. 
Track has to be compatible with Tomy and or I am not switching to/ buying it either. And Yes if someone is listening make some track available in four lane sections ! If they did taht then I would probably TOTALLY switch !
Scenery , That was pretty well covered in a previous post ,and I will add Walthers has the capability to come up with this stuff so go for it ! Grand stands, pit shops, people, etc etc. Everything AFX too said !


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## BRPHO

Hi Guys!

I currently own and race on Life Like track and I really like it.

I have pretty much owned all other tracks over the years AFX, Tomy, Tyco.

I have found that I like Life Like the best but the only drawback is the lack of available different track pieces.

If Life Like would provide the same track pieces as Tomy does, I think you would have a much better track system just from the stand point of how the track pieces lock together alone.

My expreience with tomy was if you didn't nail or glue it down over a small time the track pieces work themselves apart.

Life Like stays together really well.

I would like to build a 4 laner with flat curves but it isn't possible currently.

Also I would like to see some vintage nascars brought out also from the '70's-'80's using the m chassis.

The t chassis are just too fast......

Just my 2 cents worth from a guy who races on Life Like track 

Wayne :thumbsup:


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## Bill Hall

*Master the haybale grasshopper*

Fire everybody currently involved with their slot car program. LOL!

Hire designers who have actually seen a car...or ...might actually be able to draw one.

The first guy who sez, "that cars wheel wells look like a rock crawler's" ...or "that A-pillar looks like a phone pole"....well that guy should head up the division! With a few exceptions, rubber stamping half arsed carp is what got us where we are today. If said model car was upscaled to 1:1 and yer grandson could then ride his big wheel under it then the guy who approved that design needs to be culled er killed. 

Havent we suffered the four wheel drive ride height stickee outee wheel thing enough? Simply put, if it looks retarded it IS retarded. Find some person who knows the difference and has the hair to say "not no , but hell no!". Rather than some politically correct bobble head who sez "Oh lookee Johnny made poopy on a slot chassis, fetch him a gold star and lets box it up". 

Track is track until someone makes straights that are straight and curves with complimentary radii that nest. Perhaps some rocket scientist could get rid of that track joint that looks like a jack-o-lantern mouth.

Accessories? How about decent clean power and a controller that didnt fall out of the gumball machine at Safeway. Do that first and then we'll talk bridges, paddocks, and luxury boxes. 

From my perspective it's pretty easy to wish for pie in the sky for the near dead hobby I love. The cold hard fact is that until someone can do the basics right it's all gonna be Disney Pixar, Nasblobs, and Candy coated spoiler-mobiles to appeal to the broader kiddie market.

Prove me wrong 

Please prove me wrong!

If they really wanna research the slot hobby, invite them to join Hobby Talk, or any other slot board so they can see with their own eyes where they are and where they need to be. AKA the great divide.

Sorry guys, I need more coffee....maybe a bran muffin?


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## Phishead

Hands down Walthers makes the best structers imo. Just think of what they could do with grandstands, pit areas, concession stands, etc.

Guardrales are a must. Relistic rails would be a instant seller.

Going with the NASCAR theme, bring out some of the old cars from the 70s-90s.

Modern cars would be great as well....I want to line up a Bugatti Veyron against a Ferrari FXX.

As for the track, I currently have a decent size life-like set, but due to the lack of track choices; i.e curves; I am going to have to switch to Tomy when I build my new 5x10 layout.


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## tjd241

*Don't know much about them....*

... but it seems like they don't know a real lot about us either. I don't buy their stuff... it's always been too toylike and scale-wise too big (for my tastes). Tell them to look at Racemasters GT40's for starters. Producing cars with that level of realism would be the only way to get a guy like me to even think about buying their cars. More track choices and smooth quality is what will sell for them. Just different pieces with mediocre quality will not make their stuff fly off shelves. nd


BTW: Don't * EVER *do this again either. It was just wrong...


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## Mexkilbee

Get the cars at race trim out of the box, (Ride hieght). Make them were the can pass on a straight without scrapin each other, the corner is one thing, but if you couldn't get down a straight with out swappin paint the black flag would be thrown fast. Instead of tow lane, how about four lane sections out off the box? How bout differant sets that make eight lanes? Big huge sweepers for corners, fast ones with a little banking built in. 36" straights 48"straights along the lines of the routed track sections (sorry about that max track, wiz track, bowman tracks) everything else someones allready posted. this might even be redundant.


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## Bill Hall

*Good one Nuther!*

So here ya go. Case and point.

Take this to yer NEW design team and ask them what's wrong with this picture? 

I'll go ahead and start and wont go into a bunch of Mopar technicalities. We'll save that for the diehards if the designers ever even come within a handgrenades toss of something representational.

1. The rear fenderline is straight at the top ! She'll make a dandy 'Camino trash hauler. One could utilize the rear wing to roll yer tarp on when not in use. Dont want yer garbage blowin' up and down the interstate. Ya might get a ticket for littering. Perhaps we can send one to this car after the fact.  

Clearly an attempt was made at duplicating the nose but they picked up their ruler instead of their french curve when it came time for the rear portion of this car. Shhhhhhh. Nobody will notice. 

2. Along those lines. Note how delightfully the rear wheel well is cut well above the hip. This bikini cut will require a Brazilian wax to keep my interest. Looks like something I did in third grade. Not to mention how the forward part of the rear arch falls away at the straight angle? ...instead of rounding down and back as it falls under....well that is what left and right handed tin snips are for....sheesh! 

3. Is that chassis even centered in the wells? The front tires say no!

4. So tell us Mr. Design-o-guy is that roof something left over from yer Elvis impersonation days?...or did yer rug fall into the injection molder?

5. Nice trim! Are those 2x4's spray painted or were they plated with gumwrappers?

6. Dont think that glass will pass DOT inspection in my state. Either that or ya better give those kids in the back seat some water. Judging by the fog content they appear seriously dehydrated. 

Nuther Dave went straight for the throat of the issue here. If yer gonna make more of this stuff...how about "let's not and say ya did"! Somewhere we went from Model Motoring to "Buy our junk because that is all there is".

Again, with a few exceptions, the soul of slots has been stripped away into a black line redline battle at the bottom of some spread sheet. I wouldnt go so far as showing them a Racemasters offering....that'd scare them away for sure. Perhaps show them some of Harrison Woodrow's finely detailed bodies, or even some of the nicer AW offerings to show them where the bar really is.

If ya can get halfway between the aforementiond and this pile pictured below...we may have something to talk about.


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## f1nutz

Bill you crack me up!! Well said!!
I vote for Bill to head up the new design team!!


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## ScottD961

Bill Hall said:


> So here ya go. Case and point.
> 
> Take this to yer NEW design team and ask them what's wrong with this picture?
> 
> I'll go ahead and start and wont go into a bunch of Mopar technicalities. We'll save that for the diehards if the designers ever even come within a handgrenades toss of something representational.
> 
> 1. The rear fenderline is straight at the top ! She'll make a dandy 'Camino trash hauler. One could utilize the rear wing to roll yer tarp on when not in use. Dont want yer garbage blowin' up and down the interstate. Ya might get a ticket for littering. Perhaps we can send one to this car after the fact.
> 
> Clearly an attempt was made at duplicating the nose but they picked up their ruler instead of their french curve when it came time for the rear portion of this car. Shhhhhhh. Nobody will notice.
> 
> 2. Along those lines. Note how delightfully the rear wheel well is cut well above the hip. This bikini cut will require a Brazilian wax to keep my interest. Looks like something I did in third grade. Not to mention how the forward part of the rear arch falls away at the straight angle? ...instead of rounding down and back as it falls under....well that is what left and right handed tin snips are for....sheesh!
> 
> 3. Is that chassis even centered in the wells? The front tires say no!
> 
> 4. So tell us Mr. Design-o-guy is that roof something left over from yer Elvis impersonation days?...or did yer rug fall into the injection molder?
> 
> 5. Nice trim! Are those 2x4's spray painted or were they plated with gumwrappers?
> 
> 6. Dont think that glass will pass DOT inspection in my state. Either that or ya better give those kids in the back seat some water. Judging by the fog content they appear seriously dehydrated.
> 
> Nuther Dave went straight for the throat of the issue here. If yer gonna make more of this stuff...how about "let's not and say ya did"! Somewhere we went from Model Motoring to "Buy our junk because that is all there is".
> 
> Again, with a few exceptions, the soul of slots has been stripped away into a black line redline battle at the bottom of some spread sheet. I wouldnt go so far as showing them a Racemasters offering....that'd scare them away for sure. Perhaps show them some of Harrison Woodrow's finely detailed bodies, or even some of the nicer AW offerings to show them where the bar really is.
> 
> If ya can get halfway between the aforementiond and this pile pictured below...we may have something to talk about.
> 
> 
> 
> I couldn't agree more , infact I thought some of the Nasblobs looked wrong too but with them all being inverted bathtubs I couldn't tell for sure.If I would buy any of there products they would have to improve there cars looks


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## ScottD961

Bill Hall said:


> Fire everybody currently involved with their slot car program. LOL!
> 
> Hire designers who have actually seen a car...or ...might actually be able to draw one.
> 
> The first guy who sez, "that cars wheel wells look like a rock crawler's" ...or "that A-pillar looks like a phone pole"....well that guy should head up the division! With a few exceptions, rubber stamping half arsed carp is what got us where we are today. If said model car was upscaled to 1:1 and yer grandson could then ride his big wheel under it then the guy who approved that design needs to be culled er killed.
> 
> Havent we suffered the four wheel drive ride height stickee outee wheel thing enough? Simply put, if it looks retarded it IS retarded. Find some person who knows the difference and has the hair to say "not no , but hell no!". Rather than some politically correct bobble head who sez "Oh lookee Johnny made poopy on a slot chassis, fetch him a gold star and lets box it up".
> 
> Track is track until someone makes straights that are straight and curves with complimentary radii that nest. Perhaps some rocket scientist could get rid of that track joint that looks like a jack-o-lantern mouth.
> 
> Accessories? How about decent clean power and a controller that didnt fall out of the gumball machine at Safeway. Do that first and then we'll talk bridges, paddocks, and luxury boxes.
> 
> From my perspective it's pretty easy to wish for pie in the sky for the near dead hobby I love. The cold hard fact is that until someone can do the basics right it's all gonna be Disney Pixar, Nasblobs, and Candy coated spoiler-mobiles to appeal to the broader kiddie market.
> 
> Prove me wrong
> 
> Please prove me wrong!
> 
> If they really wanna research the slot hobby, invite them to join Hobby Talk, or any other slot board so they can see with their own eyes where they are and where they need to be. AKA the great divide.
> 
> Sorry guys, I need more coffee....maybe a bran muffin?


 Don't apologize , your right on buddy


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## brownie374

4 lane track that is tomy compatible and vintage nascars.


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## Dranoel Dragon

First of all, get this through your thick skulls: While NAStyCAR is incredibly popular here, it is not the only racing that Americans are interested in. And even NAStyCAR bodies that look like the blow up displays at the local carry-out are not going to appeal to anyone but the most diehard Earnhardt fan.

You people put incredible detail into train engines, cars, people, buildings. Hell, even your scaled vehicles for the train hobby look fantastic compared to what you offer in your slot cars. Is it that difficult to see? Your trains sell because they are detailed to the nth degree. Why aren't you slot cars selling? Because they look like cheap cracker-jack toys, that's why. Sit down and compare some of your slot cars to their 1:1 caounterparts and ask yourself. "If this was one of our trains, would this be acceptable?" And be honest with your answer.

Let me tell you this; I, for one would have gladly paid double what I did for the SRT GT40s I bought. Why? because they were WORTH that. 

Here's another point to bake your noodles on: Why do I keep seeing the same thing offered over and over and over and over again? Where's the variety? The newness? Ok you're doing NASCAR. Four bodies with 43 different paint schemes. Well whoopity-ping-fizz!!!

Do you know why HO slot racing was popular in the '60s and '70? I'll tell you. Every time I walked into the local hobby shop there was something new. Something different. Something I wanted and HAD to have. By the time I was old enough to drive I had hundeds of cars. Not just a few different bodies with hundreds of different paint jobs. In fact I don't think I bought the same body in more than two different colors and in most cases only one color.

And back then they didn't have the rapid prototyping technology and CAD/CAM that you have available to you today. I would think it would be far easier today to pump out a new design once a month than it was then. So why is it when I go into the local hobby shop I don't see the new designs like I did then. Now I look at the HO slot car case and say, "Yeah, I got those. Oh! Look! More new stuff for 1/32!!! I wish they made THAT one in HO."

Maybe that's why 1/32 has remained popular even after all these years.

Look, you can do it with trains. Do it with cars and you'll be surprised at the results.


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## AfxToo

The Walthers-era NASCARs in no way resemble the jelly-******* that LL was cranking out under previous ownership. The previous generation Dodge COYs and latest round of COTs are much more than respectable, they are pretty darn nice and do justice to the genre whether you like NASCAR or not.

One key component that Walthers must recognize, something that Aurora had instilled in their culture when they were on top of the HO slot car world, is the mutually beneficial relationship between real racing and slot car racing. Anything Walthers can do to forge a relationship with the racing organizations and racers who have a large following in the slot car buying demographic will pay off in the long run in slot car sales. Having the popular team logos on the boxes and on the cars is a good first step, getting a top shelf driver to promote the LL product during holiday buying season would take it to a whole new level. Yeah, that kind of promotion does not come cheap, but sometimes you have to spend money to make money.


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## Mike(^RacerX^)

I dont have to many LL cars,but the ones I do have I have run a LOT.
I like the fact that pretty much straight out of the pack,with maybe just simply dialing in a rear tire size,these babies can GO!!!!!

I hope that LL takes in you guys suggestions and continues to move forward with their slot car line.
I would definitely add more to my box down the road if they were to do some interesting body styles.

Mike


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## resinmonger

*Learn from the pros...*

Walthers knows the train market very well. In some ways, we aren't all that different than train heads. Many of us want a complete, realistic experience. Trains are very detailed and there is a plethora of products to make a layout literally come alive - figures, animals, structures, vehicles, landscaping materials, etc. Those are the things that elevate a train set from a simple toy to something people will enjoy for a lifetime.


Walthers could do well to look at 1:32 racing to learn what works in the slot car arena. Scalextric has been around about forever and one could use their business model for building up the HO market. Just look at their site:

http://www.scalextric.com/

Look at Trackside Accessories. You will find figures, buildings and other items that are not that different that what train enthusiasts use except the items are focused on auto racing versus city or rual scenes.

Check out their track. They have 4 radius options. They offer 22.5 degree curve sections which really allow more variation in a layout than 45s do. Every radius has a corresponding corner apron. Offer turns in 22.5, 45 and 90 deg sections.

All of these things allow a 1:32 slot head to build a realistic looking layout. Walthers would know how well trains would see _without_ the scenery - poorly would be my guess. All the add ons wouldn't be out there if nobody wanted them - supply and demand. They could prove how well HO slot cars would sell _with_ scenery.

They could start with a simple part. Make turn aprons that would work with the Tomy range of curves. I would buy these. Make people and buildings. I would buy those as well. Sitting people could come in groups of 4 or 6. There are a couple of dozen manufacturers making 1:72 and/or 1:32 military figures - the technology is out there. That would appeal to all HO racers what ever track they own. Use the profits to revamp their own track offerings.

Try adding a couple of decent GT cars with M chassis to the market. If the 240Z and Carrera aren't available, offer something similar. Offer up the open wheel car. Sell some with white bodies and stickers. Kids can use the stickers to dress up the car and adults can paint them to thier liking.

Just some thoughts...


----------



## brownie374

I forgot turn aprons, turn aprons, 4 lane track that is tomy compatible and old time nascars


----------



## ScottD961

I have to agree with Dragon here. Nascar is not the only racing out there and I want some other cars before I let go of the money , period.
AFX I think you also have a valid point about being linked to a real racer as well that should seem like a no brainer in fact.
And Resin says a mouth full here to. Infact I think we should bombard Racemasters , Mattel with emails stating our wants. If they came out with just one product that we wanted and it did well then the snowball effect would begin.


----------



## Montoya1

You don't need to bombard Racemasters. Steve Russell is out there, tuned in and receptive.

As for Walthers, whilst I have no trouble believing that they would undertand 'we' would lap up new body styles, I don't know how much that matters to them.


----------



## ScottD961

Montoya1 said:


> You don't need to bombard Racemasters. Steve Russell is out there, tuned in and receptive.


I didn't mean it in a negative way. Anytime I have called there for help his people have been EXTREMELY helpful . I want them to succede . I just would like them to know what we really want but if he is listening I'm gonna send him my list of wants now, 'cause I got lots of 'em ! LOL :thumbsup:


----------



## Montoya1

ScottD,

I did not mean to imply you were being unduly negative. I was not sure you knew what an open door policy Racemasters have, because lets face it it is somewha unusual.

Superb, but unusual nonetheless.


----------



## ScottD961

No worries Montoya I knew what you meant . I've alweays liked Racemasters and it's good to know that he is watching and listening. Does he come here to check this site out too? I f we could get just one new item a year , I would be happy ! Turn borders , bigger turn radius curves, grandstands, Tower, pit buildings .... List could go on forever ,LOL !:wave:


----------



## Montoya1

I think from a discussion I had with Steve he is aware of and has respect for HT but due to time constraints only really uses SCI.

As for Walthers, it is encouraging that they seem to be trying to tap into our existance, but I won't get too excited about that until there are some tangible results.

After all, AW had a tonne of advice, solicited and unsolicited, but.....


----------



## 1976Cordoba

These are Walthers HO scale train station platforms along my pit lane.


----------



## ScottD961

Doba Lookin good man ! Are the pit buildings more of the lego's ? Did you paint them? I like the train station platform on there. I think a lot of train stuff could be easily converted over. Awesome job though


----------



## ScottD961

Montoya1 said:


> I think from a discussion I had with Steve he is aware of and has respect for HT but due to time constraints only really uses SCI.
> 
> As for Walthers, it is encouraging that they seem to be trying to tap into our existance, but I won't get too excited about that until there are some tangible results.
> 
> After all, AW had a tonne of advice, solicited and unsolicited, but.....


yeah I can imagine he is a busy guy. I'll try to post some wants on SCI .Like you though with Walthers but would like to see some results. 
AW , I know , I know ! LOL
I still buy his stuff though.


----------



## 1976Cordoba

ScottD961 said:


> Doba Lookin good man ! Are the pit buildings more of the lego's ? Did you paint them? I like the train station platform on there. I think a lot of train stuff could be easily converted over. Awesome job though


 
Yep - The garages and media center are all Legos. Standard colors, nothing painted except for a handful of orange tiles in the way way back of the orange garage (not a lot of orange tiles in existence, only in Halloween themed sets usually). :freak:


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## neorules

Again guys thanks for the input. I will tell you that i've already recieved an e-mail as of friday from LL and they are listening with the best of intentions. Hopefully you guys will remember that Walthers has only had the slot-car line for about 3-4 years, so please don't hold the current crew responsible for the sins of the past. Also if possible if any of you have photo's of suggested cars or body styles you like feel free to post them as part of your suggestions. THanks again!!


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## ScottD961

neorules said:


> Again guys thanks for the input. I will tell you that i've already recieved an e-mail as of friday from LL and they are listening with the best of intentions. Hopefully you guys will remember that Walthers has only had the slot-car line for about 3-4 years, so please don't hold the current crew responsible for the sins of the past. Also if possible if any of you have photo's of suggested cars or body styles you like feel free to post them as part of your suggestions. THanks again!!


Hey neo if it helps the slot cause I / we are all for it. Hopefully Walthers will really revamp the line.


----------



## NTxSlotCars

*70s Stock Cars*

Okay, let's start with seventies Nascar. (Note the stance of the body on the chassis. The more real they look, the better they'll sell.

*Early Seventies*

*1972 Chevy Monte Carlo*

















*1971 Plymouth Road Runner*

















*1971 Mercury Cyclone*

















*1972 Ford Gran Torino*


----------



## NTxSlotCars

*Mid Seventies Stock Cars*

*The Mid Seventies*

*1974 Dodge Charger*

















*1974 AMC Matador.*

















*1975 Chevy Laguna S-3*


----------



## NTxSlotCars

*More Mid Seventies*

*1975 Chevy Monte Carlo*(same as the 77, but with round headlights)

















*1974 Mercury Montego*

















*1975 Ford Gran Torino*


----------



## NTxSlotCars

*Late Seventies*

*The Late Seventies*

*1977 Oldsmobile Cutlass 442*









*1978 Dodge Magnum*

















*1978 Ford Thunderbird*

















*1977 Monte Carlo*(same as the 75, but with square headlights.)









I would say that about does it for most of the bodies in the seventies. My favorite series would be the _mid seventies_. Although there have been some _attempts_ by other manufacturers, they haven't been good, and no one manufacturer has done a complete set. The best, of course, was AFX in the seventies. By the way, original AFX stock car bodies are very collectable nowadays, so you don't see anyone racing them. *We need something we can race!* If Walthers/LL could reproduce these bodies with the detail and stance they have with the recent Charger body, and current COTs, I think you would have a hit. A few years ago, Parma did a lexan set with a 71 Monte Carlo, 71 Road Runner, 71 Cyclone, and a 71 Charger. They sold a ton of them around here. I bought many myself. Make some blank bodies, and test market them here.

Thanks,
Rich
www.myspace.com/northtexasslotcars


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## coach61

I think nascar has been done to death, show me something new..AFX, TOmy, AW & Ll have done almost every variation of 70's to present stockers.. we need something new...Pretty much any LMs racer other then a porsche 956 (too many already) surprize me for my dollors...


Dave


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## ScottD961

I'm with Coach on this Nascar has been done to death ! lets move on already ! I wouldn't mind seeing some of those that NTX posted But really want something new now


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## NTxSlotCars

Coach, Scott,
They're asking for pics. Show us what you want. How about some of that late sixties, early seventies LeMans stuff?

Rich


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## Montoya1

They would be mad to stop doing Nascars IMO.

But it would be nice to see some other bodies and track pieces.

Here are a few cars they should go for:





























]


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## micyou03

*How about some Trans Am Cars*

Trans Am Cars


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## Dranoel Dragon

How 'bout som DTM and BTCC cars? Lifelike already released the Mercedes in Australia and those were VERY nice. Give us some more. Rally cars would be nice (not into rice, realy, but...) Subaru and Mistubishi. The M chassis would have lent itself well the the Group C/GTP cars of the 80's and 90's. What about some unique racers like the Dauer 962 and the Lotus GTR-1. Or if you're under some sort of deal with the France family. how 'bout Grand Am Daytona Prototypes?

I agree, NAStyCar has been done to death. Old, new and other. Same with Muscle cars. Don't get me wrong, I like the muscle cars but it's been done. Try some new muscle like the Mustangs, Camaros and Challengers. This could easily lead to race styled bodies from next years Nationwide series.

Exotics are always good too. There have been too few offered lately. People will line up to get a good representation of a Lamborghini or Ferrari for their track, just look at the way Mattel's Ferrari F50 sold on ebay.

I guess my point is, instead of offering the same thing that has been offered for years, try what hasn't been done. Do something that really sets you apart. That will get my money.


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## ScottD961

NTxSlotCars said:


> Coach, Scott,
> They're asking for pics. Show us what you want. How about some of that late sixties, early seventies LeMans stuff?
> 
> Rich


 LOL Yeah I know , I just don't have a way to post the pics. Well actually I do but I need a camera to do it. Now those Trans Am cars would be right up my alley !:wave::woohoo:


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## ScottD961

Dranoel I agree Muscle has been done too . My favorites are all muscle cars though , they make up most of my collection. I guess it all boils down to everyones favorites . A lot of guys like Nasty cars. Some of us like F1 , etc etc. I would really like more than anything four lane track, turn borders, grandstands and towers. Pit garages and people , pit crews etc.


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## resinmonger

How about something like this: Modern Le Mans GT or Classic Can Am?


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## ScottD961

YYYEEESSSSS ! More of those too please


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## resinmonger

Perhaps a little more Can Am will be of interest:


----------



## resinmonger

Or you might like Old School IMSA/Le Mans GTP:


----------



## resinmonger

These are some of my favorites so don't get me started...:freak::dude:


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## ScottD961

I like that series so don't YOU get ME started !LOL


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## resinmonger

Is this where Zilla comes in with that Lion King song?


----------



## NTxSlotCars

Res, man that CanAm stuff looks great. How about a "LeMans" the movie set? I know everyone has done some Nascar, but no one has done a complete set of the old cars since AFX in the seventies. JL/AW are reproducing some of the makes, but not all. The only way to have a true era correct series is to mix the manufacturers, which is hard to do. Tyco made a great Charger, but to get a Chevy on a Tyco pan chassis, you have to use the Ideal Laguna S-3 or the unattainable Tyco 72 Chevelle(set only). Same goes for the Tyco Plymouth Road Runner(set only), and there is no Ford, Mercury, or AMC for that era. AFX had the early and mid seventies covered, except for the Gran Torino. AFX bodies are better castings and weigh better than the JL/AW reproductions, and AFX originals are expensive. The late seventies, to have an era correct class in Nascar, you have to use the Tyco narrow chassis Oldsmobile Cutlass 442, the AFX Magnum, and the AFX 78 Thunderbird. My point is, a seventies Nascar class can be done, but not without going to extremes to try to have even chassis. The expense and availability of the variations of bodies makes it impossible to have a class that any one can walk in off the street, pic a car, and race in a class competitively. Again, no one makes a complete class of cars, like LL is currently making with the current Nascar. I think LL has the right idea making several different paint schemes for the same class, it's what makes a series fun. This doesn't mean they have to be Nascars.
Instead of popping out random cars from all sorts of motorsports, why not make an entire class? I would welcome cars from Indy, Nascar, F1, SCCA, LeMans, IMSA, GTP, NHRA or any other alphabet, as long as we could have an entire class to race with.

Rich
www.myspace.com/northtexasslotcars


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## resinmonger

*Le Mans Movie for Rich*

Rich, were you referring to these cars?


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## txronharris

I'd have to agree that having a full set of a type of car would be great. CanAm, LeMans, all of those. I thnk offering them in four packs for those of use with four lane tracks would be a good option. Model railroading has the six packs of cars, slot cars would do well as a multi package as well. 
As far as sets, anything that goes along with classic car movies like LeMans, Bullit, Cannonball, etc would be home runs as well.


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## NTxSlotCars

resinmonger said:


> Rich, were you referring to these cars?












ABSOLUTELY!!!!!!!! :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## coach61

See I didn't have to post pics, all I did was suggest and the picture fairies did it for me.. great thread though would be neat to see 25% of all the ideas put to use as am much as everything would be cool, I would like to see the company last a few more dozen years at least...lol...


Dave


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## Jim Norton

*Realize Racemasters is "eating your lunch"*

The first thing Walthers needs to realize is Racemasters/AFX is "eating there lunch" as far as leading the hobby.

If I were Walthers, I would do something much like "a shot heard round the world" and stand the HO racing world on its ear. There is no doubt that Walthers has the resources to do anything.....just look at their model railroading efforts.

What I would like:

1) A bank turn which would have enthusists from all brands clamouring to buy would be number one. Walthers should make a 42" radius and a corresponding 45" radius bank turn. Either do it as AFX comptable with adapter tracks to LifeLife or vice-versa. (I agree that a standardization move toward AFX style of track would be prudent.)


2) Create sets with themes. Imagine the bank curves mentioned aboved paired with 4 top finishing era accurate stock cars sold as the "1969 Talladega 500" set. 

The potential for such themed sets are endless and would appeal to both the collector and shopper at Target. A 1979 Daytona 500 set with Petty, Waltrip, Yarborough and Allisons cars would be great. Of course, we would need a new squeeze track to replicate Donnie's block on Cale! 


3) As far as cars go, a promise from LifeLike that they will never do any of those "morphed" stock cars from a few years ago. The Dodge looked so terrible, I just threw the body away....literally. 


In summary, I think innovative track pieces is what the hobby needs most.

Jim Norton
Huntsville, Alabama


----------



## Mexkilbee

Four Lane track made out of a pliable rubber/plastic, 3', 4', 5' long straights, 90's, 45's, and 22.5's corners. Four lane that can become eight when doubled. And rails that are the width of a stock T-Jet shoe. Non-mag would be kool, but you would miss out on the Mag Guys. Banked corners, at least 36 deg. wouldn't it be great to have the lanes that would run the actual "Race Line" sorry that would cause problems... 
this will all never happen, but it is a "Wish" list


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## Montoya1

where are the figures that show LL are losing out to Racemasters? I will say again, until we know how much the likes of us matter to LL we won't know how much of the wishlisting is just an (enjoyable, admittedly) distraction.


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## Mike(^RacerX^)

Montoya1 said:


> where are the figures that show LL are losing out to Racemasters? I will say again, until we know how much the likes of us matter to LL we won't know how much of the wishlisting is just an (enjoyable, admittedly) distraction.


Very true indeed Dean.

Sooooooooooooooo Mr Wet Blanket spoiling everyones fun........why dont you send someone over there at Walthers a link to this thread and see what happens???????:wave:

Mike


----------



## grungerockjeepe

SuperFist said:


> I would like to see LifeLike make some of these vintage Nissan 240Z bodies like Rokar made.
> They were the most popular Rokar slot cars.
> 
> They have a real nice stance with their flared fender wells and spoilers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __________________


YEEESSSSSS!!! I love these datsuns! But the mold needs to be changed to have an integrated windshield like their later offerings as the window posts on these are extremely fragile. 

Some repops of the datsun, the porsche, miami vice cars, and that baja F-150 would rock. 

Bring back the M chassis. Hell, Id like to see the X2 (rokar/amrac) style come back too. By far the most fun.

MORE '05 Mustangs!!! While we're at it, I dont think people can get enough of the new chally or camaro either so go for it.

Other than that, Id like to see a mix of different bodystyles. Look at what AW is doing: A little something for everyone. Hot rods, tuners (gotta get fresh blood in the hobby somehow, so dont moan and groan), old school muscle cars--especially overlooked ones, and a few F1s would be good.

Oh and you guys want something revolutionary track-wise, huh? Why not re-tool some 1/43 scale track so that HO cars can run on it? It's got plenty of room so that the doors arent rubbing and you can fishtail around both inside and outside turns. No need for snap on railing, just mold an edge right on the outside, the way TCR style track is. And best of all, that'd leave plenty of room for some jacked up 4x4 style slots like Jeeps, FJs, etc. Id convert to LL track if they did something like this. But do away with the wired in controllers. That idea just plain sucks.


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## resinmonger

coach61 said:


> See I didn't have to post pics, all I did was suggest and the picture fairies did it for me.. great thread though would be neat to see 25% of all the ideas put to use as am much as everything would be cool, I would like to see the company last a few more dozen years at least...lol...
> 
> 
> Dave


Yesterday, I was a basic nobody. Now, I have been promoted by Coach to Picture Fairie! I be important now!!! :hat::hat::hat:


----------



## Bill Hall

Is that a real magic wand ?

...or is that a Sears magic wand?


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## resinmonger

It's a Craftman magic wand with a life time guarantee! :freak::dude:


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## SuperFist

The Hitachi magic wand is the only one I'm familiar with. 








__________________


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## tjd241

*Points for attention to detail....*

As much as we all would like to see Walthers make a "real" go of the slot car thing, they also need to do more than release one of this, one of that, and one of the other. They need to think in *(at least)* pairs of the same types of cars. Not much interest in racing one new NASCAR Truck against one new Hot Rod Street Rod, or the C.O.T. against one new LeMans Sports Car. If they do use the same body only diff paint scheme... PLEASE.... make it a different number. Who really needs two #27 Daytonas or two #8 Camaros. It's a money saver I'm sure, but not a very realistic scenario. Lots of opinions here for them to mull over. If they can get the scale and realism thing nailed down and offer a little something for different types of racing fans, then maybe they should think in terms of that old wedding saying....

Something*s* old... Something*s* new... *Nothing* borrowed... Scale runs *true*. :dude: nd


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## Montoya1

Don't google that Hitachi gadget unless you are broad minded.

As for Life-Like, I agree two or more of one car type would be make a lot of sense. Lancia LC2 and Porsche 956 for example.


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## tjd241

*Oh ya... one more thing...*

Tell them to look "within" as well. From their own catalog pages 46 to 51... What makes these cool??.... They look *real*. nd


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## videojimmy

TJD... those would be AWSOME slot cars!

HEY LIFE LIKE, ARE YOU LISTENING?


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## Bill Hall

Hahahahahaha!

Good one Nuther!


----------



## Grandcheapskate

Lifelike needs to take their track up quite a few notches. The lack of track variety is a killer and makes the track far less desireable than any other.

I like the fact that they use even lane spacing like Tyco/Mattel. I have never been happy with the uneven spacing of Aurora or Tomy. When putting together a four (or more) lane layout, I want all the lanes spaced evenly. With Aurora/Tomy, there's a bigger gap between lanes 2 and 3 than between 1/2 and 3/4.

Lifelike track feels more substantial than either Tyco or Tomy. That's just my impression from handling it. LL may have a good base to start from.

I don't like the electrical connection method of the rails. It uses the same technique as Aurora. I much prefer the rails connect side to side like Tyco or Tomy. Better yet would be connecting rails like 1/43 track where one slides inside the other.

Make a screw type terminal track; it's a no brainer.

Lifelike only has a few track molds - 6", 9" and 15" straight, 9" 1/4 curve, 9" and 12" bank, and 15" skid track (wiggle). Modify them to make them Tyco/Mattel compatible (especially since the lane spacing is the same). Tomy has it's market covered, so no need to reinvent the wheel. Go after those who have Tyco/Mattel track and can no longer expect anything out of Mattel. The updated Mattel design is good (and maybe could be improved upon still) and 100% compatible with older Tyco. Then get a few more molds up and running; especially aprons.

And for goodness sake, if you make a new car, don't bury it in some set that no one knows about. The 2006/2007 car lineup is nearly impossible to figure out. If you want to sell cars, let people know they exist. AND USE UNIQUE PART NUMBERS!!!!!!!

Joe


----------



## SuperFist

grungerockjeepe said:


> YEEESSSSSS!!! I love these datsuns! But the mold needs to be changed to have an integrated windshield like their later offerings as the window posts on these are extremely fragile.


You got that right!
The new way is a lot better.

My old Amrac Rokar 240Zs have really taken a beating.














__________________


----------



## tjd241

*Superfist ... go easy!!!*

Your gonna wake the horsey!! nd


----------



## [email protected]&MRACEWAY

*amen*



martybauer31 said:


> I would love to see the old monte carlos, torino's, etc. running around the track, old school Nascar style as well.
> 
> Ditch the T and go back to the M chassis, something that can be a little more open in the upgrade department...


yes get back to the real car M Chassis


----------



## NTxSlotCars

NTxSlotCars said:


> *The Mid Seventies*
> 
> *1974 Dodge Charger*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *1974 AMC Matador.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *1975 Chevy Laguna S-3*


I still like the mid seventies stuff.


----------



## NTxSlotCars

NTxSlotCars said:


> *1975 Chevy Monte Carlo*(same as the 77, but with round headlights)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *1974 Mercury Montego*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *1975 Ford Gran Torino*


Another push for mid seventies stuff, in case Walthers is still listening. Although there have been some attempts by other manufacturers, they haven't been good, and no one manufacturer has done a complete set. The best, of course, was AFX in the seventies. By the way, original AFX stock car bodies are very collectable nowadays, so you don't see anyone racing them. *We need something we can race!* If Walthers/LL could reproduce these bodies with the detail and stance they have with the recent Charger body, and current COTs, I think you would have a hit. A few years ago, Parma did a lexan set with a 71 Monte Carlo, 71 Road Runner, 71 Cyclone, and a 71 Charger. They sold a ton of them around here. I bought many myself. Make some blank bodies, and test market them here, on HobbyTalk.


----------



## AfxToo

> A few years ago, Parma did a lexan set with a 71 Monte Carlo, 71 Road Runner, 71 Cyclone, and a 71 Charger.


Parma still makes these, they are readily available, and inexpensive.


----------



## Voxxer

*Anything New?*

Hi Neorules

This was the last post we heard from you about this subject. Has Walthers come up with a game plan? 

Thanks

Voxxer

09-27-2008, 05:25 PM 
neorules 
Member
iTrader Rating: (0) 
My Photos Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 147 

Again guys thanks for the input. I will tell you that i've already recieved an e-mail as of friday from LL and they are listening with the best of intentions. Hopefully you guys will remember that Walthers has only had the slot-car line for about 3-4 years, so please don't hold the current crew responsible for the sins of the past. Also if possible if any of you have photo's of suggested cars or body styles you like feel free to post them as part of your suggestions. THanks again!!


----------



## neorules

All suggestions have been noted. LL is currently considering what direction to go in first. All of you who took the time to post here, I thank. Hopefully someone from the company will post here soon. I know decisions will be made in the next few months as to what priorities will be tackled first. Stay tuned!!!


----------



## bombers4ever

Additional Nastrucks would be great !!! I really like F1's, but doubt the T chassis will fit on an open wheeled car very well...


----------



## Montoya1

Open-wheelers should be left to the Mega-G, unless LL want to make a comparable chassis.

For the current chassis their seems to be a wide range of stuff they could do and we would buy.


----------



## resinmonger

*Open Wheeler*

Actually, Lifelike's generic "Formula" car body that fit the M Chassis was pretty OK. The side pods were considerably lower than a Tyco or Tomy chassis would allow. Naturally, the 1.7 in wheelbase Mega-G will captur3 the length of modern formula cars more accurately than an M chassis would allow. However, I have collected several of the Lifelike formula cars and have been happy with them.


----------



## grungerockjeepe

Some of you guys like the Mid-70s nascars, which is cool even tho Im not into it. That matador, Id be all over. In fact, Id get behind most any AMC.


----------



## Grandcheapskate

You know what would be real nice? If Lifelike actually packed the sets with the cars they show on the box. They got me again today when I finally found the 9006 set with the unique CAT Charger. Once I opened the box, I found they inserted the widely available single car version of the car. There's another $50 wasted.

Joe


----------



## 1976Cordoba

Grandcheapskate said:


> You know what would be real nice? If Lifelike actually packed the sets with the cars they show on the box. They got me again today when I finally found the 9006 set with the unique CAT Charger. Once I opened the box, I found they inserted the widely available single car version of the car. There's another $50 wasted.
> 
> Joe


I think the Auto World sets have a little window box that show you the cars inside -- that'd be cool if all the manufacturers could adopt that kind of packaging. 

(But then again, of course then you'd have some feeBay jag scalper with a pocket knife cutting the packages in the stores to steal the cars )


----------



## NTxSlotCars

So, does anyone know if any of these requests are being considered?
Has there been any progress?
Will the "M" chassis ever come back?

Rich


----------



## Guidepin

1. Some wider turns. Yes. 2. Scenery items. Yes. 3.New cars Camaros etc.YES. 4. NASCAR yesterday. Yes. 5.NASCAR today YES! Excellent molds. Keep it up. GK


----------



## videojimmy

why keep making the same stuff everyone else is? Aren't there enough NASCARS, Camaros, vettes ansd mustangs already out there? 

More track options, a cheap electronic timer/counter, and for God sake.... how about some HOT RODS!


----------



## Bill Hall

Naw Jim....the experts in market research have decreed that there will be more ill fitting, gawdy colored, muscle cars and cookie cutter Nas-blobs. Note: retrofit stoopid wings.

The mucky mucks have signed off on this and have hopped aboard their company jet and rocketed off for a tee time somewheres in Bungholio.

Little wonder Wahoo kicks them right square in the McNuggets with each subsequent release.


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## slotnewbie69

i agree with bill on the hokey cars.i like the m chassis,though.didn't think much of the cars offered,even the sprint cars.i would however invest in more track if they made more turn radii.i have enough ll track to make a decent four lane layout,but the lack of nesting curves is frustrating at best.turn aprons are a no brainer,and of course realistic looking cars.so i am stuck with a ton of ll track that can only be configured as a two lane.which is fine for testing and tuning,but i cant host a decent slot night,and end up on my buddy's four lane tomy layout.please make nesting curves!


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## Capt Uante

I use life-like track, in fact that is what the majority of my movie is made with. Except I had to use a track adapter in order to use a different make of track to get a variety of options like single lane feeds and exits and the ramp jump, etc. 
Not really into racing myself, but I like versatile track, so what others are saying about different radius turns and nesting curves would be great. Maybe NOT paint specialized pieces with yellow paint either, or at least offer the option of having the same piece without the paint...for instance the "intersection" piece you make. I could do without the "Crash" design in the center. 
As far as cars...I don't like much of what life-like has now. In fact the only cars I have are the two NASCARs that came with the track. Most others I've seen look goofy and don't compare to the body styles of other companies. I'd like to see more realistic looking muscle cars and newer cars. Also, nothing against Mopar, but I'm about tired of all the Classic Dodge stuff. I like it, but I'd love to see a '67 Chevelle or GTO once and a while (Not counting T-jets or MEV...their scale is too small). 

Anyway, look forward to seeing some new stuff from Life-Like. New and Different is good!


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## AfxToo

> Will the "M" chassis ever come back?


If you can channel the spirit of Elvis, maybe he would know. Both long gone, hopefully to a better place.

Life-Like has carved out a niche for themselves in the "officially licensed" NASCAR market. With the demise/disinterest/MIA/AWOL/Death By Barbie status of Mattel there is no other HO manufacturer making products for the NASCAR segment of the HO market. I don't see LL being in direct competition with Tomy/Racemasters at this point in time. From a total slot car dollars perspective, yeah, they are both pulling dollars from the same pond, but there is an inherent differentiation between the Tomy and LL products that address different buyers with different interests. 

In product areas where Tomy and LL did sort-of overlap, the Tomy renditions were, at best, crude and license avoiding renditions of the actual models they were trying to represent. Yeah, some of the previous generation (pre COT) Life-Likes were blobbohorrific molds that even their mother would reject outright, but they at least offered closer to the real thing paint schemes that were good enough for ... ugh ... a NASCAR fan. The Tomy #10 "Phony Stewart" Stocker and its #84 "Johnson Jimmie" cousin were laughable paint schemes for the NASCAR crowd. Awesome chassis, but totally lame body decoration reminiscent of their earlier Tomy #24 "Pseudo Gordo" stocker. 

With LL's latest COT cars, they have done a much better job with the molds, perhaps aided by the fact that real cars are now somewhat more blob like, and the Ford one is definitely the runt of the litter with its stubby little splitter. I do like the LL COT versions a lot, but unfortunately the selection continues to narrow and only the deepest pockets, pinnacle of popularity cars and drivers are being represented. Bring on more teams and variations and at least one Toyota team. But I will take whatever I can get from LL and hope they can continue to put out new and updated products in this difficult economy.

The tiny scale and onerous limitations and constraints imposed by the running gear on HO slot cars has always made them much less of an art form and much more of a visual compromise. Pulling off a modeling coup in HO is a huge challenge. The tiny scale and proportionally enormous motor causes cheating to run rampant. Whether it's the "perched on a box" or "Big Post" look of a classic TJet or the "I didn't know 1:55 scale was still considered HO" bloat of some of some newer cars, getting a visually appealing rendition is extremely difficult. Limited budgets, price point concerns, small markets, bottom line manufacturing models, licensing costs, toy regulations, and why not, let's throw in global warming, all contribute to the challenge. I'm surprised that decades after the mainstream popularity of slot cars has faded there are still a few diehard manufacturers cranking out products for us to buy. That's simply amazing.


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## NTxSlotCars

So do you think it will ever come back?


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## slotcarman12078

I would be happy with what we have now Rich!!! Under the present circumstances, we're lucky to have that!!


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## Grandcheapskate

AfxToo said:


> Life-Like has carved out a niche for themselves in the "officially licensed" NASCAR market.


 It seems to me that only certain owners in NASCAR go after the diecast and slot car markets. All I see, year after year, are Hendricks cars (#5, #24, #48 and #88), Gibbs (#18, #11, #26) and Rousch (#16, #17, #99). This year, Lifelike is bringing in Stewart Haas (#14, #39).

There's really not a large selection out there. Every year, the same cars get released with a different deco. This isn't a knock on Lifelike, as I see the same thing in casually looking at diecast. But I really do have enough #24 and #48 models. And other than pure popularity, #88 still hasn't done anything to merit all the attention.

I would like to see something different.

Thanks...Joe


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## tjd241

*Spot on Joe...*



Grandcheapskate said:


> There's really not a large selection out there. Every year, the same cars get released with a different deco. I would like to see something different.


ANYTHING different. Also strikes me the same as AFXtoo says... They do indeed have a nice niche (right now)... The problem is that a prolonged "niche" often turns into the same old hole after awhile. So exactly where does Lifelike see themselves going? Status quo or moving ahead?... Guys have been throwing ideas out since last September. So far has been kind of fruitless. How about some *reverse* feedback for a change? Lifelike... are ya out there? nd


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## AfxToo

> would like to see something different.


Me too! The selection was narrow to begin with and it is getting narrower. I do not even see any of the Toyotas this year.



> It seems to me that only certain owners in NASCAR go after the diecast and slot car markets.


I think you have it backwards. It's the diecast and slot car manufacturers who seek out licenses from the race teams and auto manufacturers to copy the license holder's products, not the other way around. Walthers is not a large mega conglomerate with vast resources and wealth, they are a small family owned business. When you have limited resources you invest in areas where you think you will get the biggest return on your investment. In NASCAR, that means one thing: *popularity*. The cars that LL chose to make for '09 are all in that camp, especially the #88 cars. I have no doubt that it comes down to "We can only do X number of new cars for '09 - so what's it going to be?" Popularity rules. The other primary variable is the licensing costs. If the license holder asks for too much royalty money, companies like Walthers simply cannot afford to gamble on the product selling enough copies to recoup their investment and cover royalty costs. It's all about the money.



> So exactly where does Lifelike see themselves going?


First of all, you always must put Life-Like in terms of Walthers, not the LL we knew 5-10 years ago. My impressions, from brief conversations and observation of their product portfolio, is that Walthers is and will always be primarily a model train products company. They bought LL to consolidate the model train business that LL owned, not to dabble in slot cars. My impression is that they are still feeling their way around the slot car business and figuring out whether it is a worthwhile part of their overall business and at what levels they need to invest to make it really worth their while. The fact that they did not simply spin it off and sell it to someone like AutoWorld (which may still make sense) is an indication that they are making enough money to continue to invest in slot cars. I don't know how much of their slot car product line represents new development with Walthers investment. They obviously brought over some product lines from the old owners but the COTs would appear to be new stuff. That's one of the reasons why I am upbeat on the new Life-Like, because they are continuing to invest in the products and they still have a very decent product, at least with the later stuff. 



> So do you think it will ever come back?


No. I like the M-chassis much more than I like the T-chassis, but I have no delusions about it ever coming back. The T-chassis was obviously developed to reduce manufacturing and parts costs. I've heard that the motor came from some piece of office equipment, like a receipt printer or fax machine. There's not a lot of sophistication to the T-chassis design. It's nothing like a Tyco 440X2, Tomy SG+, or LL M-chassis in terms of complexity so the cost to build the T must be significantly lower than any of the previous chassis. But what the heck, with a strong arm and strong traction magnets, even a butt ugly simple design can work quite well and be "good enough." In the race to the bottom line, "good enough" has become the new "great."


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## tjd241

*Ebb and Flow.*



neorules said:


> Your feedback is critical in deciding which way the company may go regarding future offerings. Here are his questions seeing that the company's Nascar line is pretty well set with the COT right now.
> 
> Would customers prefer to see vintage cars, muscle cars,etc or go for the hot new cars like the new Camaro, Corvettes, ShelbyMustang etc. The 2005 Mustang GT did very well, so I know that has some appeal.
> 
> Second question is more open - what cars would you like to see from *Life-Like* in the long-term?
> 
> Third question - what track & accessories are most needed that people would buy? There are so many things we COULD do, I need the help in whittling it downto what would be best-sellers. Those successes would pay for futuredevelopment.


It's fine for folks to speculate on their behalf, that's great, but personally I'd like to hear from *them.* The above is from post 1. If you want a conversation... ask to start one... then you should hold up one side of it. Nobody is asking for their business model... How about a simple acknowledgement for starters? A wink... a nod... something?? About 8 months worth of input has been provided. Seems to have been a one-way affair so far. So I say again... *Lifelike*... are ya out there?  nd


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## AfxToo

Cue the cricket sound .....

Other than Steve Russell from RaceMasters giving small glimpses into products that are very close to release, and the boutique racing products manufacturers schlepping new wares, how much revelation of future product directions would you really expect? They are definitely listening, but getting them to open up is a whole different story. They are businessmen after all, and their participation in any customer facing activity, even grass roots forums like this one, has to be rationalized to the bottom line. We've seen examples of vendor participation being a positive thing and we've seen it turn ugly, and this a "happy board" compared to some of the others.


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## tjd241

*THEY asked.*



AfxToo said:


> how much revelation of future product directions would you really expect?


Not really expecting any special insight into their grand plans Mr Too... "Smell ya later" would be ok at this point.... But my preference would be that they (at minimum) live up to their namesake and act sorta _"lifelike"._ Nobody's asking them to hang out with the great unwashed masses of Hobbytalk slottards or even to maintain a dialogue. It's not like it'd be too much skin off any "businessman's" apple to throw a courteous reply back after 7 or 8 months. _C'mon... seriously now... how hard is that?_  nd


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## slotcarman12078

AfxToo said:


> Cue the cricket sound .....
> 
> SNIP!
> 
> We've seen examples of vendor participation being a positive thing and we've seen it turn ugly, and this a "happy board" compared to some of the others.


This is a very true statement! While I agree some sort of dialog from lifelke would be nice, I don't think what they would have to say would be met with a great fanfare and a standing ovation... How many groin shots did Dan (Dash) endure before he walked away for "safer" pastures?? Tom Lowe isn't exactly embraced with loving affection around here all the time either. Unless Lifelike (Walthers) has something to say that most of us would want to hear, I believe they will keep quiet. A "we hear your requests and suggestions, but it's just not economically feasible right now" would be nice, but it isn't going to make anyone happy.. Let's just hope they're still reading.. and taking notes!


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## Montoya1

Dan gave a good few groin shots too  Usually first!

As for LL, in these risk-adverse times (and nothing to do with the current financial climate, although that hardly helps) I dont expect them to listen to us in the slightest.

It becomes a modus operandi to ignore enthuisiasts. I have seen good ideas that cost zipp rejected on that basis.


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## Bill Hall

*Go play on the freeway*



AfxToo said:


> BIG SNIP* ...." In the race to the bottom line, "good enough" has become the new "great."


...yes, and this is what we're talking about. That and the fact that please, thank you, and fare thee well are no longer part of the product line. Lets remember that it's my nickel and by god I'll make the devil dance for it.

Agreed it has become, "Here's our crap give us yer money and shut up...dont like it? Tough!

We went down that road last year or so with another manufacturer...who then shows up a year or so later at the prom, via the service elevator and asks, "Is der sumting wong wid my dwess? Puhweeze tell me!

Is "Oh gee, LL is making cheap uninteresting carp, just like they always have surprising ANYONE?" Uh ...that would be their legacy. Lets face the fact that this thread is a "run along and go play with yer lil cars dog and pony show". It's the oldest trick in the book. It comes right after "I've got yer nose" and "Hey look over there." Suckers!

See: Customer Service Manuel, Diversionary Tactics 101, What to do when someone wont go away.

I have lowered my expectations once again and have now attained the level of "abandoned all hope".


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## tjd241

*Then why bother asking?*



slotcarman12078 said:


> Unless Lifelike (Walthers) has something to say that most of us would want to hear, I believe they will keep quiet.


It's somewhat pointless and it annoys people. It's like a guy who's lost... pulled over in East Dumbschmuck, Idaho to ask somebody for directions, and then proceeds to find fault with the guy giving him directions because he's nowhere near where he wants to go. Like I said... "Smell ya later" would be ok at this point. nd


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## Grandcheapskate

AfxToo said:


> I think you have it backwards. It's the diecast and slot car manufacturers who seek out licenses from the race teams and auto manufacturers to copy the license holder's products, not the other way around. Walthers is not a large mega conglomerate with vast resources and wealth, they are a small family owned business. When you have limited resources you invest in areas where you think you will get the biggest return on your investment. In NASCAR, that means one thing: *popularity*. The cars that LL chose to make for '09 are all in that camp, especially the #88 cars. I have no doubt that it comes down to "We can only do X number of new cars for '09 - so what's it going to be?" Popularity rules. The other primary variable is the licensing costs. If the license holder asks for too much royalty money, companies like Walthers simply cannot afford to gamble on the product selling enough copies to recoup their investment and cover royalty costs. It's all about the money.


You're right, I may well have it backwards.

On one level, I understand why manufacturers would pay for licenses. If a manufacturer feels that more product will be sold because it has someone else's logo on it, then they feel justified in paying someone else for the right to use their logo.

On another level, I don't understand it. For example, I never buy a piece of clothing that has a logo and/or brand prominatly displayed; if they want me to advertise for them, they can pay me for the privilage. (In case you didn't know, the masses hang on everything I do).

Same with slot cars. If I were making slot cars, I would write to different companies and ask if they wanted to have their logo on my slot cars as free advertising. Most would probably say no ("Our lawyers say that we cannot do that"), but some would probably take the offer. I know I would.

As for Walthers, I think they need more time to really feel out the slot car market. I think they are debating whether to go deep into the hobby, or basically run in place. Maybe they should purchase the Mattel line; no need to reinvent the wheel.

As far as the M chassis goes, it cannot be that much cheaper to produce the T as opposed to the M. What could it possibly be - $1? The savings on the chassis is no doubt dwarfed by the licensing fees. And the cost of constantly producing new box art. 

I know Neorules is in contact with them, so maybe he can give us some feedback

Joe


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## AfxToo

I completely understand the sentiment. What I have seen with Life-Like is their participation in the Like-Like Challenge at the HOPRA Nats, and from what I saw and heard it was very well received and universally positive. They mingled and asked a lot of questions and listened a lot. That being said, there's an even larger potential customer base for Life-Like that would be represented outside of the context of a national racing venue. Having access to 100 racers is great, but a majority of these racers are not big Life-Like customers in the first place. 

I contend that getting 10 collectors and current customers in front of Life-Like would give them a pretty clear picture of where they should be focusing on for the future. I think Life-Like recognizes the value in customer input and is trying to work with Bob (Neorules) as a point man in reaching out to us. I don't think they really know what would be the best way to go beyond listening in on what we say any more than we do. Interacting openly in a public forum probably sounds a bit scary. 

I'd say that if you are really passionate about where Life-Like goes with their products then contact Neorules and see if you can participate a phone based "voice of the customer" interview with someone at Life-Like. Likewise, if they participate in any toy shows maybe they would do a backroom roundtable discussion about their products. I only bring these up because I have done them, both as the one gathering information and the one being interviewed as a customer/user.

Oh Grandcheap' one, I also don't understand the brand and logo licensing thing when it comes to TOYS either. I think it is penny wise and pound foolish. Putting a big 'ol Chevy bowtie or Dodge ram head or "Mobil 1" or "STP" or "Pepsi" on a toy is free advertising in my mind. Better than that, it's also planting a seed in a kid's head that's going to pay dividends for decades to come. The license holders are trying to extract money on the wrong side of the equation. Case in point: my nephew will only drink Pepsi because that's what Jeff Gordon has in his hand when he's being interviewed on TV. What if Pepsi made Jeff pay them for stepping in front of a camera with their product in his hand? Duh! That would be stupid. Pepsi gets it, they pay Jeff to get their logo out in front of impressionable eyes. But what the heck, we've found out that those automotive marketing guys aren't exactly geniuses, so not seeing the big picture should come as no surprise.


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## NTxSlotCars

I just wanna race, man.

I don't know. Maybe they are looking at the older market. I mean, most kids would probably invest their hard earned allowance money in, let's say, 20 cars, if that, before getting bored with this hobby and moving on to the next. Where as, any one of us may have 400 cars sitting in our boxes. Since "Walthers" is already familiar with the train hobbyist, they really should adopt the same format for the slot car enthusiast. Maybe they could come up with a "Super T Plus", you know, a LL version of the Tjet. Wouldn't that be something? A maintenance free tjet that actually ran right out of the box, without any persuasion? What a concept. Can you imagine bolting one of your high dollar bodies to a LL Tjet and smashing it into a stationary object at over 1000 scale mph on 12v? Send that to Bill for more goop.
Speaking of corporate mindset, let's talk about projected income.
There is so much potential (potential income) in slot cars it's not even funny.
All these corporations set up their quarters on their projections and what they "think" they're gonna sell.
So, we see the problem with that in our modern car industry, which may answer my question here.
Point - If someone made the product available, someone would buy it.

Why don't they go street rat crazy and make everything? Scenery, bodies, nesting track, all of it?

Rich - let's all build lifelike tracks and race - Too


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## tjd241

*HUGE Gomez Adams fan here!!!*



NTxSlotCars said:


> Can you imagine bolting one of your high dollar bodies to a LL Tjet and smashing it into a stationary object at over 1000 scale mph on 12v?


Rich.... I've wanted to do this for *years*. I even have a bag of plastic army men saved just for the occasion. Bring it on. :lol: nd


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## noddaz

*I think...*

I think LL should make Daytona prototypes...
Just think, one body style (more or less) with different paint.
Perfect... 

Scott


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## AfxToo

They could also make better use of the bodies they have. The '05 Mustang body they have could benefit from some good paint schemes, like butterscotch, instead of the low res schemes they have been going with. 

I like the idea of a common spec body but the Daytona Prototype has to be one of the ugliest spec racing bodies ever developed. Sure, it's contemporary and it is still in use but the canopy is way too bulbous and out of proportion with the rest of the body dimensions. Weird looking, reminds me of an E2C with the wings hacked off.


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