# Feedback needed on decals for PL Refit



## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

I used Arthur Pendragon's fantastic aztec template and his excellent decals for the Ertl refit to create this test decal for the 'strongback' on the PL Refit. 

Decal Test 

This image isn't scaled to the correct size yet. I enlarged it in order to be able to work on it. Let me know what you think. I can finish the deflector decals tomorrow or the next day if folks like these...


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## lizzybus (Jun 18, 2005)

*Decals*

Utterly stunning!
You've got the colours, gradients and panelling down to a fine art!
Can't wait to see more!
Rich


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## Garbaron (Apr 23, 2004)

Hey looks very good…but the colors are wrong.
Use this to get them straight:

http://www.cloudster.com/Sets&Vehicles/STMPEnterprise/ColorPhotos/cSTMPent56.jpg

And the sub sections do not have a plating effect to them as you can see in the above link.


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## ArthurPendragon (Jan 4, 2004)

Garbaron said:


> Hey looks very good…but the colors are wrong.
> Use this to get them straight:
> 
> http://www.cloudster.com/Sets&Vehicles/STMPEnterprise/ColorPhotos/cSTMPent56.jpg
> ...


Indeed, but the plating effect looks cool when applyed to the model, just tone it down a bit.

Remember that the pearlescent white will show through the clear decal film and create an interesting mix.

The only thing I have to add is that the strongback panneling for ST-TMP differs slightly from the 1701-A desing, specially at the front.

Garbaron, please post that Probert photo and you'll see what I mean (just a little change needed...).


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

I'll desaturate it a little and up the brightness. If Garbaron posts that pic, I'll use it to see where the pattern differs. I was concerned that this might be too green - I haven't printed it out yet, so I don't know how it will look in 'real life'... I'll work on this some more and see if I can't improve it!


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

Subtle is good. Looking forward to seeing your progress!


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

Okay, here's a quick change to see if I could get the color/saturation closer...

Decal Test 1


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

I must say, it looks a touch too blue (the RGB slightly purply blue) to my eye ... maybe you could add a bit of green to send it closer to teal/turquoise/cyan?


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## Garbaron (Apr 23, 2004)

ArthurPendragon said:


> The only thing I have to add is that the strongback panneling for ST-TMP differs slightly from the 1701-A desing, specially at the front.
> 
> Garbaron, please post that Probert photo and you'll see what I mean (just a little change needed...).


Well now… I could refer to the threat at Starshipmodeller now could I?

Oh well…. her we go again.

The Andy Probert picture…ok here it is:
http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/attachment.php?attachmentid=25746

I made a picture where you have the Refit next to the Ent-A:
http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/attachment.php?attachmentid=25750

Hope you guys can make out the difference at the forward section of the strongback Aztec…if not… “you are as blind as a denubian bat” (Ensign Peter Preston to Adm. Kirk in TWOK)



BUT I am not going to post the very same thing over at ThomasModles again!


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

Thanks for the comparison, Garbaron.


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

Okay, I think I see where I need to make changes. Thanks for that pic, Garbaron! Is the color/saturation better?


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## Garbaron (Apr 23, 2004)

Steve, Krako, you are welcome! 

And yes the saturation is better.


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## Raist3001 (Oct 23, 2003)

I think it looks awesome Krako. Great material to use as well for those of who will be painting the strongback.


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## ThomasModels (Mar 8, 2000)

Very nice start Krako!



Garbaron said:


> BUT I am not going to post the very same thing over at ThomasModles again!


 Sometimes getting first hand input based on work with and color images of the original '79 model is best.

Those side by side images you've cropped together Garb were shot years apart on different film stock under very different lighting conditions, making the colors appear to be very different from what they actually were.


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

ThomasModels said:


> Sometimes getting first hand input based on work with and color images of the original '79 model is best.


So, Thomas ... are you saying that you are in possession of color images of the '79 model that have not yet been published on the web?


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## ThomasModels (Mar 8, 2000)

Yes.


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

Hmm ... I'm confused more than usual. The only topic in the linked forum relates to the NX-01.

Unless you're teeeeasing us ....


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## ThomasModels (Mar 8, 2000)

As soon as I get the host pages setup to prevent hotlinking, I will post links to the pages in that forum topic.


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

Ah. Interest has been piqued. Carry on ...


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

Okay, here's another version. This one is pretty close (I think) to the pattern in Garbaron's photos of the refit from TMP. These are not scaled correctly - they've been enlarged so you can see them better.

Decal Test 2 

Here's some pics of a very rough test of the decal. The colors/patterns print out *a lot* lighter and more subtle than they appear on screen.

Pic 1 
Pic 2


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## Garbaron (Apr 23, 2004)

ThomasModels said:


> Sometimes getting first hand input based on work with and color images of the original '79 model is best.
> 
> Those side by side images you've cropped together Garb were shot years apart on different film stock under very different lighting conditions, making the colors appear to be very different from what they actually were.


I know that those pictures are YEARS apart (one from ‘79 the other after TUC) and that there are totally different lighting conditions.

But the colors of the strongback where not the subject for the comparison picture, but the difference in the Aztec schema 


As for those color pictures of the TMP Refit you’ve got…. LE ME SEE 

*P… L…E…A…S…E*………. you will by my hero for the rest of my life….well you already are since you had a major part in bringing to us the PL Refit.


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## Garbaron (Apr 23, 2004)

Krako said:


> Okay, here's another version. This one is pretty close (I think) to the pattern in Garbaron's photos of the refit from TMP. These are not scaled correctly - they've been enlarged so you can see them better.
> 
> Decal Test 2
> 
> ...



Looks very good my friend….but……

If I get the hints from the David Kimble Cut Away, the dry dock scene in TMP and Andy pictures correctly the… middle strip has same width from the front to the pylon base and no kink in it. 

Of course once Thomas grand’s us invaluable access to pictures of the ’79 miniature all this might become obsolete.


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

Garbaron - 

The pattern may be closer than you think. Take a look at the lines in this pic:

http://www.fourmadmen.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=0&pos=0

Now, I admit, these lines don't account for the curvature in the hull, or the perspective, but I do think there may be a "kink" in the center strip. 

What I do have wrong is the color of the center strip - in the middle section it should be darker, I think.


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## Garbaron (Apr 23, 2004)

Well seams you are right there. 

Glad you proof me wrong before I actually start painting the Refit….

Good work on your par there Krako 


P.S. gets kind of ridicules to post the very same answer at two different boards wouldn’t you say?


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

Garbaron said:


> P.S. gets kind of ridicules to post the very same answer at two different boards wouldn’t you say?


Yes it is. Therefore I resolve to put every other word in my Hobbytalk posts over on Starshipmodeler.

Is okay you?


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## Garbaron (Apr 23, 2004)

Is okay you?

Are you Yoda?

Kidding... yeah thats ok.


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

I've been meaning to post "that" and "with" over on Starshipmodeler...


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## captain kirock (May 10, 2005)

ThomasModels said:


> Yes.


Hey when can we see these pics I am dying!


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

Alright... here's another revision. This one picks up a lot of detail from the cloudster refit pics. It's probably not completely accurate, but it's where I'm going to stop on this piece of the decal puzzle...

Strongback decal test


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## Garbaron (Apr 23, 2004)

captain kirock said:


> Hey when can we see these pics I am dying!



I second that……come on Thomas!!!!!! 

Show us the pictures!

I NEED them to finally make my decision if I’ll do a Refit out of the PL or the A.
(tending to A cos of lack of color pictures of the Refit)


@ Krako....

See SM for my response


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

First stab at the deflector dish sides... Deflector Sides


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## captain kirock (May 10, 2005)

captain kirock said:


> Hey when can we see these pics I am dying!


 well I guess we are never going to get to see the pics


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## captain kirock (May 10, 2005)

ThomasModels said:


> Yes.


Still looking to see the pics please!


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## ThomasModels (Mar 8, 2000)

That was only a preview. Sorry, the pics and/or index will not be posted here.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

ThomasModels said:


> That was only a preview. Sorry, the pics and/or index will not be posted here.


Just drop us a link or two when the pics are up and running.

Considering your and Capt. Locknar's long standing amiable relationship at least you probably won't have to worry about them being deleted.


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## Garbaron (Apr 23, 2004)

ThomasModels said:


> That was only a preview. Sorry, the pics and/or index will not be posted here.


As long as you make the pics available at your site …. I’ll be happy as happy as one can be  

Just....please.. DON'T take too long to post them...yes? please...yes????


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

Latest version of deflector side decals... 

http://www.fourmadmen.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-989

Here are a couple of pics showing the decals printed and cut out on the part....

http://www.fourmadmen.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-991
http://www.fourmadmen.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-990


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

First stab at the strongback side decals...

http://www.fourmadmen.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-992

This represents all of the decals I'm going to work on. I'd appreciate some feedback on these so I can finish them up. Anybody besides me going to try these?


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## ThomasModels (Mar 8, 2000)

Krako your renderings are gorgeous! Are you rendering these as vector art, then combining bitmapped layers? They look really nice.


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

Thanks, Thomas! I'm creating these in Photoshop, using the Arthur Pendragon aztek templates. I've been creating each of these in 1200 dpi, layering "plating" on top of each base image. The strongback decal has over 50 individual layers in it, for example.

Again, thank you for the compliment. I don't do this for a living - this is just a creative outlet for me, so it's nice when an uber-wizard like you takes notice.  

I added some details to the strongback side decals...

http://www.fourmadmen.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-994

And started on the warp pylons (thought I'd do just one or two more decals before stopping)...

http://www.fourmadmen.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-993

I'm concerned about how these will look printed out and applied to the model. Any advice you could share on how to make these look good would be greatly appreciated!


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## frontline (May 4, 2005)

I think these look great and so far as my monitor is showing me, you've got the colors right. Though on the pylonds, shouldnt they all be one color instead of alternatig tones?


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

Thanks, frontline. By using the cloudster photos of the studio model as a reference, I picked out what I believe to be three different shades on the pylons.


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## JadesDarkHeart (Dec 8, 2003)

Krako I am stunned at how beautiful AND subtle your decal templates are. Your Refit in general makes mine look like amateur hour.  

Greg


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

Greg - thanks for the compliments! Your refit is definitely not amateur in any way! In fact, I've been using your progress pics as reference material for building mine. In your latest pics(http://www.blockheadpictures.com/refit.html), you can really see how beautifully it's coming together. I can only stare at the scattering of pieces on my workbench and dream of when I'll get to that stage.

Speaking of your refit, I took a trip to Hobby Lobby yesterday just to find one of those damned little crystal beads you used for your deflector dish. I really like the effect that you created with that. I found another bead that looked like a disco ball. I picked it up along with the type you used. I'll post pics when I get to that stage (someday far away)...


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## Raist3001 (Oct 23, 2003)

Greg, I so agree with Krako. Your refit is anything but amateurish.


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## JadesDarkHeart (Dec 8, 2003)

Thanks Krako and Tony I apreciate your kind words. Coming from the two of you, you have no idea what that means to me  

As for the Crystal, I think you are really going to like how it looks. I picked up some of those disco balls as well and had a really hard time cutting them. I messed every single one of them up so I don't know how they will look but I cant wait to see your pics. 

I just got a commission to build one of these and am really excited to try some new things to make the next one even better. I am going to add amber lights to the dish and a few other minor adjustments. 

Namely the food coloring in future that you and Tony did with the Pactra was brilliant. It looks allot better than mine. Sincere admiration there boys :wave: 

Greg



Krako said:


> Greg - thanks for the compliments! Your refit is definitely not amateur in any way! In fact, I've been using your progress pics as reference material for building mine. In your latest pics(http://www.blockheadpictures.com/refit.html), you can really see how beautifully it's coming together. I can only stare at the scattering of pieces on my workbench and dream of when I'll get to that stage.
> 
> Speaking of your refit, I took a trip to Hobby Lobby yesterday just to find one of those damned little crystal beads you used for your deflector dish. I really like the effect that you created with that. I found another bead that looked like a disco ball. I picked it up along with the type you used. I'll post pics when I get to that stage (someday far away)...


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## Raist3001 (Oct 23, 2003)

JadesDarkHeart said:


> I just got a commission to build one of these and am really excited to try some new things to make the next one even better.



Congratulations Greg! That's awesome news. Your client has one mighty fine ship coming to him (or her)


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

Congrats, Greg! I can't imagine building one of these more than once! They are very, very lucky to get you.


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## 1701ALover (Apr 29, 2004)

Krako...you've got PM!


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

Here's the latest version of the pylon decals...
http://www.fourmadmen.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-995


And, here's the dorsal decals as well...
http://www.fourmadmen.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-996


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

These are incredible, Krako!

It would be a crying shame if you didn't do the whole ship!


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## JadesDarkHeart (Dec 8, 2003)

Man that is just incredible work


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## Guest (Feb 23, 2006)

This is truly going to be a thing of beauty and i don't think i'm overstating it to be honest :thumbsup:


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## frontline (May 4, 2005)

Let me add my voice to the chorus saying that they look great. I cant wait to see how the ship is gonna look with these on her.


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

Very nice, Krako! :thumbsup:


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## Garbaron (Apr 23, 2004)

Krako.... usually I am NOT into decalling my kits, but with these I am thinking "maybe this time..... MAYBE!" 

I sure hope you'll provide the decals when you are done, even if I may not use all of them I may use some.


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## klgonsneedbotox (Jun 8, 2005)

That would be awesome. This is great work (and very time consuming) and I, for one, would be willing to pay for the files and print my own decals. :thumbsup: 

Of course, since they are original works, you may not be willing to sell/share them, which I would understand too.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Those are great! :thumbsup: 

I'd love to see a decal replicating the hyper-detailed close-up section of the dorsal in _Wrath of Khan_ where the ship was being phasered by the_ Reliant_. Something like that could only be practical with decals, IMHO.


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

Perfessor - Early on, I did use the Cloudster pic of the large model from TWOK as a reference pic, but I stopped looking at because it kept confusing me. The strongback and deflector patterns on that model don't seem to match up at all with the studio model (although there are general similarities). All those details are really cool, though. 

It's cool to see that there is excitement over these decals. Just so everyone knows, they will be available as downloads for *free*. They are based on Arthur Pendragon's aztek templates for the PL refit, so I absolutely cannot take full credit. Arthur Pendragon deserves a lot of thanks for doing the tedious measuring required to get the templates just right. I made these because I wanted them for my own refit. There's no reason to not share them.

Again, these will be available as a downloadable file for folks to print off on their own computers. While I can help give advice on printing out the decals, I'm not going to be offering actual printed-out versions.


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## JadesDarkHeart (Dec 8, 2003)

Let me be the first to say that this is a hugely generous gesture and I really appreciate it and I know others do too.

Greg



Krako said:


> Perfessor - Early on, I did use the Cloudster pic of the large model from TWOK as a reference pic, but I stopped looking at because it kept confusing me. The strongback and deflector patterns on that model don't seem to match up at all with the studio model (although there are general similarities). All those details are really cool, though.
> 
> It's cool to see that there is excitement over these decals. Just so everyone knows, they will be available as downloads for *free*. They are based on Arthur Pendragon's aztek templates for the PL refit, so I absolutely cannot take full credit. Arthur Pendragon deserves a lot of thanks for doing the tedious measuring required to get the templates just right. I made these because I wanted them for my own refit. There's no reason to not share them.
> 
> Again, these will be available as a downloadable file for folks to print off on their own computers. While I can help give advice on printing out the decals, I'm not going to be offering actual printed-out versions.


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

Greg - thanks, and no problem! 

I also forgot to give credit to Garbaron who has provided immensely valuable feedback on the look and accuracy of these decals, both here and over at Starshipmodeler.


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## frontline (May 4, 2005)

Krako, Oh my God, this is a fantastic thing that you are doing. As someone who will definatly be using these you have my deepest and most profound thanks and admiration


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

JadesDarkHeart said:


> Let me be the first to say that this is a hugely generous gesture and I really appreciate it and I know others do too.
> 
> Greg


I agree 100%!
Thanks from me as well, Krako!:thumbsup:


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

Completed the first decal application test today. Most everything fit well. Minor fit problems with the strongback decal and some of the others need minor trimming. However, I'm very pleased with the overall look of the decals. I slapped together a secondary hull out of some test parts I've been working on and coated it with gloss white paint. Here are a few pics...

http://www.fourmadmen.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-998
http://www.fourmadmen.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-1003
http://www.fourmadmen.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-1009
http://www.fourmadmen.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-1008
http://www.fourmadmen.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-1007
http://www.fourmadmen.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-1006
http://www.fourmadmen.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-1005
http://www.fourmadmen.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-1004


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## Four Mad Men (Jan 26, 2004)

Oh man! Excellent, Excellent, Excellent. Those look fantastic (and Excellent)!


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## ArthurPendragon (Jan 4, 2004)

You did it !

Congrats !


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

Nice and subtle. Well done! :thumbsup:


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

Fantastic!
Those look ten times better then the ones I bought a set of.
Any chance you'll release a blue version too?(Aztecing doesn't have to be different, I'm not that picky  )

I hope eventually, when you have the time, you'll decide to do the whole ship.
Everyone who agrees raise your hand and wave... :wave:


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## Four Mad Men (Jan 26, 2004)

:wave: :wave: :wave:


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## klgonsneedbotox (Jun 8, 2005)

Those look fantastic!

I think you hit a bullseye. The colors look right on the money and the detail is awesome.

These areas are the ones that I have dreaded the most when it comes to figuring out how to paint the ship...now maybe I won't have to!!!

I'm curious to see how close you came to the true colors...maybe if Thomas posts those color pics of the original paint we'll be able to find out. :thumbsup: 

You should be very proud of your work...it's top notch!


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## Guest (Feb 26, 2006)

:wave: :wave: 

I can only echo what has been said and add i think you hit the bullseye with those. Beautifully done ! :thumbsup:


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## Garbaron (Apr 23, 2004)

Fantastic work Krako! 

Now where can I get them? I may not sue them since I plane to do it the hard way…paint them on using Arthurs templates. But it would be nice to have these as an option.


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## Raist3001 (Oct 23, 2003)

These look fantastic!! Great work my friend! Simply awesome!!


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## marc111 (Nov 10, 2005)

Great Work Krako!! I think you nailed the on-screen look which to me is more importatn than a duplication of the studio model collors as I really like the on-screen look.

Thanks for the update.
Mark


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## frontline (May 4, 2005)

Absolutly bloody fantastic. You nailed this one down to a T. Id buy you a beer if you were near me. Hell Id probably buy you a case.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

I'm going to email you the full resolution version of these,
they have "banding" problems in the print, but the decal sizing and shape are correct at full res. So these should help with the upper parts near the nacelle struts.

Let me know if they help!:wave:


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

Thanks Chuck PR, but I fixed the fit problems yesterday! Still have some cleanup work to do, and then I'll post them for downloading. More details to come...


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## captain kirock (May 10, 2005)

ThomasModels said:


> That was only a preview. Sorry, the pics and/or index will not be posted here.


 Are you going to post thoughs pics you have of the refit on your web site and how soon? I would love to see them before I start my model!


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

Any more progress on the colored decals, Krako?


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## Garbaron (Apr 23, 2004)

I think he wanted to take a break......


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

Work's been killer this week, so there hasn't been any play time for poor krako...


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## JadesDarkHeart (Dec 8, 2003)

I hate to admit it but I am running into a rut. I decided to crack open my DS9 Defaint and fix some very amateur mistakes I made a few years ago and get her finished.

Refit has been so much work and I still have so far to go I am kinda burned out.

JDH


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## Garbaron (Apr 23, 2004)

Krako said:


> Work's been killer this week, so there hasn't been any play time for poor krako...



I know the feeling… that’s why there is no real progress on my PL Refit either!

God I liked life more when I had the time to build my models!
Better times are coming up….. I hope.


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

Garbaron said:


> Better times are coming up….. I hope.


Here's hoping that for you, Jade and me!


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## Raist3001 (Oct 23, 2003)

The wife has had me painting the entire house. That and being banished to the attic to continue on my refit has slowed my progress to a steady creep.


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## frontline (May 4, 2005)

Raist3001 said:


> The wife has had me painting the entire house.


[Nelson] Ha-Ha [/Nelson]

Dont feel bad mine has had me laying wood laminate then then I start to paint.


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## Nova Designs (Oct 10, 2000)

Raist3001 said:


> The wife has had me painting the entire house.



Hey at least she doesn't have you decaling the entire house!


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## Garbaron (Apr 23, 2004)

Raist3001 said:


> The wife has had me painting the entire house. That and being banished to the attic to continue on my refit has slowed my progress to a steady creep.



At least its creeping for you... mine has come to a complete STOP! 
But once I'm done with my thesis work I'll get back to her.


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

Krako, offered as motivation if you're running out of steam: the work you're doing is beautiful. You really should consider doing a Norm Abram, building a prototype before you build a finished version. But instead of completing the prototype before starting the finished version, maybe finish it one stage ahead all the time. The reason I'm suggesting this is a) the obvious b) it doesn't take that much more time to finish two together than it takes to build one and c) you realize of course that you are creating at least one of the top five, if not THE, most legenday heirloom quality 1/350 1701 in the known universe. Not just because of the incredible work you're doing on it, but also (or especially?) because you're doing it basically in public, where we are all watching you. I don't know what Norm does with his prototypes (sells them for fiunding to keep the show on the air?), but if you made two, I somehow suspect that there would be a whole lot of people lining up to get their hands on one of them. When I check EBay for E's and sort from highest price, I cannot believe how much some people are asking for 1701s frequently with nice paint jobs but and lights but otherwise OOB with none of the extra detailing you're working on, none of the panel lines or any of the kits other mistakes corrected. 
You would never get a fair price for it, not for the work you're putting in which any similar craftsman would charge +$60/hr for, but you sure could pay off the kits and the parts and the paints and go out for a few nice lunches. All the best, man!


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

Thank you, starseeker! I really appreciate that. My money's still on Raist to build the ultimate refit... Garbaron's a great candidate too. Matter of fact, there are about 50 guys on here who can all do a better job than I. When John P gets around to making one, we'll all hang our heads in shame...

That's a good idea about building another one. Basically, I probably will build another one by the time I'm done test fitting for the armature, experimenting with aztek stuff, etc. I've never thought about trying to sell my work. I'll have to think about that one.

As for the decals, I think they're done. I turned a test sheet over to Arthur Pendragon yesterday for him to check colors. If everything checks out, they'll be posted this week.


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## fokkerpilot (Jul 22, 2002)

JadesDarkHeart said:


> .....Refit has been so much work and I still have so far to go I am kinda burned out.JDH


I hear ya! After a good 6 months on mine, I won't be building another until this fall.


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## The Trekmodeler (Jul 21, 2005)

starseeker said:


> When I check ebay for E's and sort from highest price, I cannot believe how much some people are asking for 1701s frequently with nice paint jobs but and lights but otherwise OOB with none of the extra detailing you're working on, none of the panel lines or any of the kits other mistakes corrected.


I have a message here from Board member User1127 regarding the above statement. 





user1127 said:


> Well, "I am offically a 'Lurker' on the Hobbytalk board. I have nothing to offer. [Everyone] is talented.
> I can't wait to see the ultimate refit, which of course would be... SCRATCH BUILT... just like the famous SCRATCH BUILT TOS Enterprise done many, many years ago... by a gentleman from Chesapeake, VA.
> Jigsaw puzzle models are great to make for self enjoyment, contests, stress-relief, and a nice buck, but I agree that the usual [PRO BUILT] models selling for $300. ($3.75 per hour)devalue everyone's talents."


 
Ivan


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

I'm a little confused about the point of the private message you are quoting Trekmodeler. Not the board member's point, as I don't know the context he brought it up in. I might agree with him that some people sell themselves short - but that's their right.

I'm just not sure why you are quoting the private message in the context of this particular thread.


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## The Trekmodeler (Jul 21, 2005)

Well The board member in question and I happen to sell on ebay when we get the opportunity and we feel that Starseeker's statement regarding the refit 1701 sales on ebay was kind of unfair. 

Krako, Raist3001, Garbaron, and many other talented modelers are taking their time, putting forth every effort to make the very best and most accurate rendition of the old lady that they can, with such additions and mods as the L'arsenal crew, the brass railing, the aftermarket corrections,etc. For that they have my utmost respect and reverence. Given that I don't think that a simpler basically built and fully lit model of the PL refit with multiple FX functions on a custom crafted base stand should be considered anywhere near "OOB". That, to me, is a contradiction.


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

I don't think Starseeker was talking about the more complex models seen on the Bay, nor do I think he was talking about you, Trekmodeler. There was someone who sold a couple of "pro built" models there, complete with an audio commentary, but with bad seams and silvered decals. Starseeker may have been referring to those kits.


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## The Trekmodeler (Jul 21, 2005)

Well in that case this was just a misunderstanding. My apologies Starseeker, Thank you for the clarification SteveR. Carry on.


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## starseeker (Feb 1, 2006)

To be fairer, there ARE a couple of gorgeous models of the E for sale on Bay. There is one especially of the PL Refit that seems for sale almost regularly and that also seems to have an astonishing paint job, and was actually an early inspiration for me as I (can't say started) contemplated this project. It led me to seek out what talented modellers are capable of doing with this kit, which is how I discovered this group. But you have to admit, there are a lot of pretty pricey Es there that are just... no, not so good. I mean, we're not even talking a basic use of putty with a couple whose prices I've dropped my jaw at. But one of the 1/350 PL Enterprise TV show, whatever it is, that, despite being the worst designed spaceship I've ever contemplated, has possibly the most beautiful finish of any model in any genre I've ever seen. 
I put lights (steady and flashing) on all my Trek models. I mount them on bases of either oak or plexiglas or mirrored plexiglass under all of them. And I consider that basically OOB. Anything less and you're doing the model a disservice.
I've just finished putting 400 little tiny pieces and strips of Evergreen, plastric, wire and copper on an Ertl Bird of Prey (I got carried away - it only needed half that) and I still kinda consider that OOB. So I guess after all these years of modelling and even occasional scratchbuilding I just have a wierd definition of OOB. 
Oh, wow, just tracked down Raist's gallery of his work in progress. And I tracked down Garbaron's 1701 on CultMan. Oh, and Krako's of course, looking at all the beautiful work that you people are doing, I don't know whether to go out and get drunk or just give up modelling altogether. Altho the getting drunk part is sounding better. There was another thread about the importance of the armature for the E, a lot of pros and cons. A couple years ago as decent references became more plentiful, I got fed up with my shoddy paint jobs and lack of detail and stripped down most of my ST collection and started rebuilding. I did almost everything I found today on Thorston's list of mods to both of my Ertl kits, including adding a shuttle/cargo bay (used nylon window screen for the railings), VIP lounge, and garden to one, have had it sitting on my workbench for at least two years trying to figure out how to sand it w/o filling the visible interior rooms with water and dust, only to snag my shirt cuff on it last week and snap off the base of one of the pylons. That was my original smoothie, that I've had basically intact (except for some work with a Dremel to open up portions, or hack off the entire back half of the engineering hull, and it still survived intact) since it was first released. AAARUGH! And I was mocking the armature-important arguement as I was reading it. Naw, they're strong enough, I said. Sigh. 
But my only real point is still this (and I know it's unfair to compare something that is made with perhaps a commercial bottom-of-the-line with something that is made as a one of a kind labour of love) is that these Es, the ones whose weekly progress I'll be following on this site for a year or so at a time, these are the ones I am in awe of. They are without peer.


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## The Trekmodeler (Jul 21, 2005)

Point well taken. I appreciate you clarifying your definition of OOB. Even though I consider it a rather unconventional way to define the term, I now understand your point of view well and even agree with it to certain degree. :thumbsup:


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

Krako said:


> Thank you, starseeker! I really appreciate that. My money's still on Raist to build the ultimate refit... Garbaron's a great candidate too. Matter of fact, there are about 50 guys on here who can all do a better job than I. When John P gets around to making one, we'll all hang our heads in shame...
> 
> That's a good idea about building another one. Basically, I probably will build another one by the time I'm done test fitting for the armature, experimenting with aztek stuff, etc. I've never thought about trying to sell my work. I'll have to think about that one.
> 
> As for the decals, I think they're done. I turned a test sheet over to Arthur Pendragon yesterday for him to check colors. If everything checks out, they'll be posted this week.


Kewl!

Any chance we'll coerce you into doing the rest of the ship???
Maybe? Eventually? Any chance? Pretty Please? :tongue:


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

I might consider doing the rest of the ship in concert with someone else... Not too excited about doing it on my own. Anyone up for it?


I dunno about you guys, but I think starseeker's thoughts about getting drunk sound pretty good right now. I'll even buy the first round...


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

After I eat my Roast Beef po-boy I might have a Nawlin's screwdriver: 3 ounces of vodka mixed with 4 ounces of undiluted frozen orange juice concentrate.  mmm... mmm... good.


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

Make one for me and I'll be right over...


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## fokkerpilot (Jul 22, 2002)

SteveR said:


> I don't think Starseeker was talking about the more complex models seen on the Bay, nor do I think he was talking about you, Trekmodeler. There was someone who sold a couple of "pro built" models there, complete with an audio commentary, but with bad seams and silvered decals. Starseeker may have been referring to those kits.


 
This is what bugs me to death about the Bay!







The Pro-built E-A's with bad seams, light leaks, and silvered decals at bargain basement prices working out to roughly $3.50/hr for labor. I didn't know there were so many sci-fi sweat shops around. You have 50+ talented modelers out there (not you John P, you rank up there with the Godz of Styrene). So how should we (the 50+, minus John) feel? I have folks visit my website, email me, and I give them an honest quote for my material costs plus my labor and get laughed at. I've had replies about the Pro-Built models on the Bay







being much cheaprer. Well hells bells, maybe there is a niche on the Bay







for E-A's cranked out at one per week with a 40 watt light bulb in it at $350.00 a clip. Of course, I'd rather drink beer than lower my standards to that type of professional level. Sorry folks, had to vent on this one.


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

I just had a crazy random thought.A bunch of us could work together on a few of these refits - divvy up the parts and assignments - and then sell them. For me, doing a few more interiors is far more realistic than trying to build another one of these monsters. 

Just a random beer-induced idea.


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## fokkerpilot (Jul 22, 2002)

Interesting  urp


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

... burp ...

"urp" ?


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## fokkerpilot (Jul 22, 2002)

Chuck_P.R. said:


> ... burp ...
> 
> "urp" ?


That's a Virginia "burp" :dude:


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

okay....

I just urped too.


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## REL (Sep 30, 2005)

I'm completely amazed at your decal work Krako. Those are freakin' awesome!


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

fokkerpilot said:


> This is what bugs me to death about the Bay!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It can be a little depressing to realize that most people don't realize the value of good work and that some of those people actually *do* the work and charge bargain basement prices. Don't let it get you down. The people who appreciate good craftsmanship and are willing to pay for it are out there. It just takes more work to find them, but when we do find them, and when we do good work for them, they tell their friends about us. Usually.


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

Ding!

Decals are _done_.


Look for the PL Refit TMP strongback, deflector and pylon decals to be posted over on starshipmodeler.com very soon.

Thanks go to Arthur Pendragon and Garbaron for their assistance on these. Thanks also to KirkTrekModeler over on starshipmodeler for getting this whole thing started!

Finally, I'd like to thank the academy...


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## klgonsneedbotox (Jun 8, 2005)

Thanks Krako, Arthur and Garbaron...excellent work!


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## Garbaron (Apr 23, 2004)

Anytime!


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## frontline (May 4, 2005)

Krako, thanks man


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

I second the thanks!

Links perhaps when available?

Maybe you could put a copy and links on the FourMadMen webspace you were using for the nonfinal versions too?


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

Any updates?


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

Not yet. Not sure what the hang up is over there... Maybe Arthur Pendragon can find out for us.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

Any chance you post a set via the fourmadmen website?

Even if the colors are perfect, very few people have pantone calibrated printers anyway. Even if someone did, chances are we'll still have to play with the color intensity depending on the decal sheets used as well as the paint undercoating.

So I for one wouldn't mind if I had an unverified color set. 

Everything I've seen so far looks dead on!


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

I've been playing around with decals for the inside of each clear window insert on the PL Refit. The idea is to make it appear as if there's a real space inside of those little windows, in as simple a fashion as possible. I figured decals for the backside of those window inserts was the easiest way to do that.

Here are my first test images. I've tested these on one of the window inserts and they look pretty cool. They're so small, that you can't tell that they're just computer generated. It makes it appear as if there's something behind the window. Check 'em out:

http://www.fourmadmen.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-1010

Anyone have any interest in these? If so, I'll make sure to share my final versions of these with anyone who wants them.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

Those look great!!!

I noticed there are some diagonal green bands that are missing from the dorsal decals you've posted so far.

I just emailed you a template pic of one interpretation of those bands.

I incorporated your vertical dorsal decals into them in the hopes it might help.

Let me know what you think. :wave:


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## Garbaron (Apr 23, 2004)

WOW Krako….

That looks really cool!
Will be interesting to see them behind te view ports. I’d like to know if the ports won’t get too dark from those decals. You know so the light is too dime when lit. 

If it works out I might like to use them too


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## fokkerpilot (Jul 22, 2002)

Great looking decals Krako. I noticed the docking port cut out on the neck. You wouldn't, by chance, be planning on docking something there?


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

Ha! No, although I did consider it at one point.

What I've done is drill out each docking port in order to use the photo-etch docking ports I purchased from johnny crash. I have also created the side lighting for each docking port. The picture in my FMM gallery is an early, early, early attempt at it - they look much better than that test piece. 

You can see that the docking port 'walls' have lights embedded in them in TMP shots of the studio miniature. I haven't found too many shots of the miniature in later movies that have those lit up. Ive designed it so that those docking port side lights won't be lit directly with an LED, but will 'pick up' lighting from inside the model, for a subtle lighting effect on the docking ports. Should look cool. I'll post pics soon.

Garbaron - The window decals aren't too dark at all. In fact, the trick has been to make them dark enough that they don't completely wash out when light is shined through them. I'll try to post pics - they're so tiny, I'm not sure my digital camera will be able to pick it up...


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## cinc2020 (May 10, 2004)

Krako,

Fascinating idea about the decals for the windows. I think I will do up my own, print them on card, then glue them in place a millimeter or so away from the window backsides to give the illusion of rooms behind the ports.

I think I'll use actual images from movie stills, then repeat paterns as needed.

Thanks for the inspiration. Now if I can just get my circuits sent to me...

In regards to the docking ports, I also will be lighting up the light bars running around the circumference of the port. Not to hard to make, actually. I'm building my own port doors, however.


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

Well done, Krako. Well done.


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## fokkerpilot (Jul 22, 2002)

If I had only waited an extra year before building mine. Just the thought of all the goodies available now makes me want to kick myself. Alas poor Fokkerpilot. Guess I'll have use the technology in the DeBoers next. By the way, excellent work everybody!!!


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

The kits are still available, fokkerpilot.:devil:


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## Marco Scheloske (May 16, 2000)

Krako said:


> It makes it appear as if there's something behind the window. Check 'em out:
> 
> http://www.fourmadmen.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-1010
> 
> Anyone have any interest in these? If so, I'll make sure to share my final versions of these with anyone who wants them.


Definitely - those are a MUST HAVE for me. Do you plan to share the file, or already printed ones?

Greetings from Germany
Marco


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

Marco - I'll have these available as a file to download soon. I'll post the link when they're done!


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## Marco Scheloske (May 16, 2000)

Krako said:


> Marco - I'll have these available as a file to download soon. I'll post the link when they're done!


Pretty cool. Thanks in advance!

Greetings from Germany
Marco


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

How are the main decals coming along?
Heard anything more?


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## klgonsneedbotox (Jun 8, 2005)

Yea, I was wondering that too. Is there a download link to the engineering hull decals posted anywhere?


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

You know, I'm not sure what the delay is. The plan is to have them hosted over on starshipmodeler.com. I think they're just really busy over there right now, and they'll get them posted to their resources section as soon as they can.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

How about doing them on FourMadMen's website too?


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

Well, I suppose I could. I don't want to suck up all of FMM's bandwidth with multiple downloads of a pretty large file. From what I've been told, its pretty positive for them being posted on starshipmodeler. It's just a matter of being patient, I guess. I hate being patient!


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## JadesDarkHeart (Dec 8, 2003)

I would be willing to host them on my webpage. Blockheadpictures.com until SSM gets up and running.

Greg



Krako said:


> Well, I suppose I could. I don't want to suck up all of FMM's bandwidth with multiple downloads of a pretty large file. From what I've been told, its pretty positive for them being posted on starshipmodeler. It's just a matter of being patient, I guess. I hate being patient!


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

Okay, I've decided to go ahead and add the PL Refit strongback, deflector, pylon and dorsal decals to my FMM gallery. They will be removed if FourMadMen determines that there are any problems with having them posted there. I will remove them permanently when they are posted on Starship Modeler. 

http://www.fourmadmen.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-1018

The decal sheet and instructions page are posted in .jpg format within a zipped file. 

Special thanks to Arthur Pendragon for his atec templates that these are based on, and for his dorsal front decal design that is included on the sheet. Thanks to both Arthur Pendragon and Garbaron for their endless advice and feedback on these. 

Please feel free to provide comments or suggestions for these decals. Thanks!


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## spindrift (Apr 16, 2005)

Matt-
sent you a couple of PM on the decals of the strongback deflector decals! thanks to you my Refit is going to be much much nicer than i could do trying to paint all those complex patterns. your efforts ARE appreciated !!! great great work- take another bow!Thanks, Gary


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## klgonsneedbotox (Jun 8, 2005)

Awesome! Thank you!


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## JadesDarkHeart (Dec 8, 2003)

Would someone who has an ALPs or other decal printer mind printing two sets of these up for me. Would gladly pay for supplies, shipping and time.

JDH


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

Kewl Beans!!!

Thanks a ton, Krako!

Fantastic work!


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## marc111 (Nov 10, 2005)

Thanks very much Krako. These help alot. 
Mark


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## Marco Scheloske (May 16, 2000)

Very cool - thanks a lot!

Those are for the "original" rfit, not the "A", correct?

Greetings from Germany
Marco


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

Right, these are for the refit, not the A.


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## klgonsneedbotox (Jun 8, 2005)

Krako - any special instructions for printing? (if I missed something from a previous post, my apologies). I'm guessing the best way is simply to print a few copies on standard paper until the units of measure you have listed are accurate on the printed copy?

Thanks again for all the time and effort and especially for sharing...


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

They're designed to print out on an 8 1/2 by 11" decal sheet. Make sure whatever software you use to print them out doesn't attempt to "shrink to fit page" or any nonsense like that. Just print them out 1:1 and they should be fine.

Printing out a few tests on regular paper is a good idea. If you wanted to make some color adjustments due to the way your printer interprets these colors, that would allow you the opportunity to do that before wasting a sheet of decal paper. One note, these will appear slightly darker (at least with my ink jet) when printed on decal paper, vs. regular paper. If you're using a color laser printer, you may need to do more significant testing - I've had to adjust these significantly for my color laser printer, in order to get a color I was happy with (could just be my laser printer, though). 

In short, give these a try. They're free after all! If you run into any significant color issues with these and need them adjusted a certain way, let me know - I'll be happy to help!


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

Krako said:


> They're designed to print out on an 8 1/2 by 11" decal sheet. Make sure whatever software you use to print them out doesn't attempt to "shrink to fit page" or any nonsense like that. Just print them out 1:1 and they should be fine.
> 
> Printing out a few tests on regular paper is a good idea. If you wanted to make some color adjustments due to the way your printer interprets these colors, that would allow you the opportunity to do that before wasting a sheet of decal paper. One note, these will appear slightly darker (at least with my ink jet) when printed on decal paper, vs. regular paper. If you're using a color laser printer, you may need to do more significant testing - I've had to adjust these significantly for my color laser printer, in order to get a color I was happy with (could just be my laser printer, though).
> 
> In short, give these a try. They're free after all! If you run into any significant color issues with these and need them adjusted a certain way, let me know - I'll be happy to help!


 
So the actual image dimensions are 8.5" x 11???

Or did you maybe do it smaller to allow for printers that require borders?


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

They're designed to print out on an 8 1/2 X 11" decal sheet. You shouldn't have any problem with borders. Let me know if you do!


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## JadesDarkHeart (Dec 8, 2003)

I am still looking for someone who can print out a set of these for me. I have no printer that can print these  

Greg


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

Krako, those are _really_ nice. They look perfect for a movie-look TMP refit. :thumbsup: 

I, for one, feel guilty using your images for free and would gladly contribute to a charity to assuage the guilt.  Have you considered setting up some kind of optional web-based charity donation thing for those who would like to donate?


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

SteveR - I certainly appreciate the sentiment and I always encourage giving to charity. However, I created these because I wanted to try them for my own refit, and it didn't make any sense not to make them available for anyone else who wanted to try them too. 

This forum has helped me out tremendously anyway, so it all evens out in the end.


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

Righty-o!


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## klgonsneedbotox (Jun 8, 2005)

I made a test print on plain white paper...they are stellar! (I overuse excellent...)

I am trying to decide between using white decal paper or transparent...will probably buy a little of both and give each a try...the only problems are, 1) my printer is basically out of ink and 2) I'm nowhere near ready to apply these to the kit! 

I swear, this is the last time...THANKS AGAIN!


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

Found a way to turn the green decals to what looks like a perfect shade of blue for those of you who prefer the blue and don't care that some of the shapes in the 1701-A blue are a little different then the original refit.

I plan on doing mine as a straight 1701 but with blue instead of green. Just can't rationalize that green color no matter how many pics I see of it.

Anyhow, if you have Photoshop Elements choose "Enhance" from the upper menu, go down to and highlight "Adjust Color," slide rightward and downward to "Color Variations." 

Once there choose "Increase Blue" and click okay. Then repeat one more time.

There ya' go!


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## ArthurPendragon (Jan 4, 2004)

After a long wait, the ST-TMP Enterprise refit decals are AVAILABLE FOR FREE DOWNLOAD ! 

http://www.starshipmodeler.com/tech/cz_mask.htm


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

Too cool!!! Thanks, Arthur!!!!!!!!


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## colhero (May 18, 2006)

Art-Pen, KRAKO: I see after browsing the many threads for building the refit E that you have broad experience with building her. Your decal graphics are superb in detail and accuracy. I am honored that you have advocated the use of my decals for the A version. :thumbsup: 

Art-Pen; when you make them available for download, please label them as "For TMP 5, 6 and Retired Version" so those out there that want to build the other TMP versions dont use them and then realize 6 months later that they aren't correct for those versions! Thanks again... http://mw469.photosite.com/


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## colhero (May 18, 2006)

Krako: Your TMP version is fantastic!!! The hatch lighting is an awesome effect and does add to the scaling. Your online gallery doesnt show any of the pics that you had referenced in previous posts (strongback, etc) have any more shots?


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## Flux Chiller (May 2, 2005)

Just a comment on the decals - although the image size wasn't particularly big, my poor old system fell over trying to cope with it. Opening in Photoshop it was a jpg at 6.5% or something like that, and it was taking forever to open. I had to adjust the image size using the pixels per inch - set it to around half what it was to start with. There is no loss of detail when viewing at printable size or closer as far as I can tell, but at least now I can actually handle it. Worth bearing in mind not to create a file that is beyond the necessary resolutions for poor Win98 users like me.... by the way, AWESOME file!!!!

Compared the decals with my airbrushed work, and although I will stick with painted version, I may cut out some of the small squares and apply to add further detail. 

http://photos.hobbytalk.com/data/509/medium/sutleblend1.jpg


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

Hmmm... I wonder why your printout of the decals has such a yellow tint to it??? They're supposed to print out with much more of a grey/green tint to them. Anyone else have that problem printing them out? If so, I could adjust the color.

I'm sorry about the file size. The file is 1200 DPI and is a large file for some computers to handle. Still, I figured it was worth it to include the large resolution - and on the printouts I've done here at the house, I can definitely tell a difference between that version and lower resolution versions. 

And colhero, thanks for the compliment and let me say that I'm in awe of your A decals!!! They are gorgeous!!! I'll be posting some new pics to my gallery soon...


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## Flux Chiller (May 2, 2005)

Krako, if you are looking at my the pic of the model that I posted - the strongback was painted on, not decals. The slight yellow tint is the camera unfortunately - the actual model is a tiny bit more grey/green. 

I lack some of the fine details of the decals, which is why I am interested in using bits of them to improve the situation. Thanks.


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## colhero (May 18, 2006)

Krako, thanks in turn for the compliment on my A decals! Lookin forward to the progress on your TMP version.


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## colhero (May 18, 2006)

My decal sheet for the A versiion is now available at Thomas Models site: http://thomasmodels.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=259&sid=a4b457704a6fd29468217aa00e9ed6f7

I also posted some new pics on my gallery at http://mw469.photosite.com/

 :thumbsup:


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## Ruckdog (Jan 17, 2006)

Krako, I downloaded your decals and I have to say they are incredible! I will definitely be using them on my model, as they are much prettier and more accurate than anything I could come up with. I was wondering though, do you think it would be better to print them on white-background water slide decal paper or on photo quality sticker paper like colhero has done? I have an inkjet printer, and the thought of printing waterslide decals on it has me a bit...concerned, shall we say .


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

Thanks for the compliment Ruckdog! I need to say "thanks" to you, as I intend to use your armature section on your website as a guide for me.

I've only worked with waterslide decal paper, so I can't speak to the sticker paper that colhero is using. I can tell you that I've had great results here at the house, both on the inkjet and the color laser printer with printing these out. I use Micromark decal paper and think it is really good quality stuff. The trick is to lightly coat (multiple coats) them with acrylic coating as soon as you can get the page out of the printer. 

When testing these for fit, I printed off about 20 pages of these on clear decal paper and applied them. I like how they look on the clear decal paper, as the base coat shows through and makes the decals appear more subtle.


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## colhero (May 18, 2006)

Krako, Sounds like a good process. I'll have to try it.


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