# Do I need a 2nd terminal section?



## Hoganflagle (Sep 21, 2019)

Hi;

Getting ready to set up my two lane model motoring lock and joiner track for home use where I will be using TJets, AFX and AFX magnatraction cars. I used a track calculator on another web site and came up with just under 39 feet. I plan on running a dedicated laptop power supply for each lane. 

I have read in some posts that some folks will add a 2nd terminal track section and wire it in conjunction with the first to avoid voltage drops. With my layout and distance would it behoove me to do the extra wiring or will I get by just fine with one? 

Attached is a pic of my pattern before I put it on the plywood. The terminal is at the 6 oclock position of the picture but got cropped out.


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## Milton Fox Racing (May 27, 2014)

You probably should have two, but it looks like you would be better off with three based on the number of joints in your layout. Maybe approaching 4 - I may have miscounted the joints in the curves. (1 power feed for every 15 joints)

:cheers2:


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## Hoganflagle (Sep 21, 2019)

*Thanks. Here?*



Milton Fox Racing said:


> You probably should have two, but it looks like you would be better off with three based on the number of joints in your layout. Maybe approaching 4 - I may have miscounted the joints in the curves. (1 power feed for every 15 joints)
> 
> :cheers2:


Trying to reduce the wire run but at least get close to the halfway would the purple arrow be a good spot to swap out a 9" straight for a 9" terminal?


View attachment 259543


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## Milton Fox Racing (May 27, 2014)

Not sure what method you are using to find the equidistance point on your track but for me an equidistance on your track layout as shown - based on the terminal being either the left or right straight track section at the 6 clock postion - would be the straight piece of track directly above them on the right side (not the lane cross over one). You could also put it as the bottom of the middle straight away in the photo and still be okay if you didnt want it to be part of the elevated track portion.


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## Rich Dumas (Sep 3, 2008)

Back when the Aurora lock and joiner track was new you could have quite a long track without using any jumpers, ours was 72 feet and we never had problems with it. Track that has been around for many years can give you problems no matter how much you fuss with the connections. If all of your track joints were nearly perfect one set of jumpers would be enough, but it is the joints, not the length of the rails that will cause the biggest voltage drops. You could just connect things with one set of jumpers and see how things go or you could do a test with a volt meter to find any bad joints before you resort to adding jumpers. The proper way to check the track is to leave the last section before the terminal strip disconnected. Place a car with the rear axle assembly removed on one lane and punch the controller for that lane. Hopefully the motor will run, if not you will have to back the car around the track until it does. Starting at the terminal strip take voltage readings around the track, even a small voltage drop would indicate a bad joint. Besides right rail to left rail measurements you can take measurements on the same rail across the joints. A perfect joint will show no voltage, if there is any resistance in the joint you will read a voltage and even a small reading would be significant. Fix any bad joints as you go along.


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## Milton Fox Racing (May 27, 2014)

Yes, the purple arrow in the bottom of the photo is where I would put your second terminal. I would also do what @Rich Dumas outlines above no matter how many terminals I was using. :thumbsup:


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## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

hmmmmm, I will have to sit on the sidelines for this one.
I don't make turns.
my drag strip has jumpers soldered directly to the rail from underneath every 3' .
I use 8 gauge Monster speaker wire for the main wire under the track so that no matter how powerful a car is, it can get all the amperage that it can draw the entire length of the track.
so, YES, my wiring IS overkill but I only have to string it 21'.


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## Rich Dumas (Sep 3, 2008)

The fact is that a DC motor draws the maximum amperage when power is first applied, as soon as the motor starts to spin it becomes a generator and the voltage that it generates will be the opposite polarity from the applied voltage. The effect of that is that is like progressively higher value resistors were being added to the circuit. By the time a car gets part way down the strip the current draw will have fallen to a fraction of what it was as it left the starting line. Still it would not hurt to have plenty of jumpers. In the case of a road course, especially one with crossovers, you have to be very careful not to cross any of the wires. If your track has jumpers and you need to do some troubleshooting you might be better off disconnecting them.


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## Hoganflagle (Sep 21, 2019)

Rich Dumas said:


> The fact is that a DC motor draws the maximum amperage when power is first applied, as soon as the motor starts to spin it becomes a generator and the voltage that it generates will be the opposite polarity from the applied voltage. The effect of that is that is like progressively higher value resistors were being added to the circuit. By the time a car gets part way down the strip the current draw will have fallen to a fraction of what it was as it left the starting line. Still it would not hurt to have plenty of jumpers. In the case of a road course, especially one with crossovers, you have to be very careful not to cross any of the wires. If your track has jumpers and you need to do some troubleshooting you might be better off disconnecting them.


I had already started trying to figure out how to jumper after the crossover but much like trying to figure out what is beyond the outer rim of the universe it started to make my head hurt. Then I realized I could just put the 2nd terminal track right before the first crossover since they were next to each other and I was golden. I am going to jumper direct from the 2nd terminal track to the first matching screw posts as it is only about a 3' run.


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## twolff (May 11, 2007)

I've been reading through your posts recently and after seeing the thread you started about different power supplies, I get the impression that you are putting the cart before the horse. Before you concern yourself with power supplies, wire gauge, and adding terminal tracks you need to make sure your track sections are clean and serviceable.
Examine each section for rust or other corrosion. Put those sections aside. You may be wasting time trying to clean them. Also check for any that are broken. Toss the broken ones. Take the rest and use an ink eraser (hard grey ones) to clean the tops of the rails and the contacts on the ends. They should have a dull shine to them. Use a rag soaked with WD-40 to clean the plastic surfaces. You may be surprised how much crud accumulates on the rag. Don't be stingy with the WD-40. Get 'em wet, but not dripping. Leave 'em set for a few hours or overnight. Wipe them down with a clean cloth to remove any remaining WD-40 and crud. Then treat the tops of the rails and the contacts on the ends of each piece with a model railroading product called Rail Zip. Just leave the rail zip on. No need to wipe it off.
On a hard flat surface, setup a layout using all or as many of the cleaned track sections as you can. Keep it flat. You don't need to mess with over passes yet. You need to use the locks to hold the sections together properly. You'll need a car that is known to run decently. Run both lanes looking for places where the car appears to lose power or stop. Those sections need further attention. Check the contacts on the ends and the rail surface. Check for rails that are sitting high or low in the slot. When things are running smooth, swap in any untested sections one at a time and check how they perform. You should now know how many and which kind of known good track sections you have to work with. It is a lot of work, but your'e the one that wants to run on 50 year-old sectional track 

Before nailing or gluing anything down, run the crap out of the layout you have chosen. Be ready to make changes and don't hesitate to try something new. I ran and changed my 4 lane setup for years before deciding to screw it down. Also consider setting up a 4 lane track. You can run the 2 middle lanes w/o having to be concerned about guard rails or borders on the outside of the turns.


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## Rich Dumas (Sep 3, 2008)

With HO cars the negative rail is the one on the right looking in the direction of travel. It is a good idea to mark all of your jumper wires as plus or minus on both ends. As has been mentioned it is best to get all of the track joints as good as possible before you add jumpers, otherwise you could have a dead spot even if you had a lot of jumpers.


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## Hoganflagle (Sep 21, 2019)

Wow! Thanks twolff! I will be the first to admit my enthusiasm exceeds my slot car intellect (1) LOL and I am very receptive to any experience and knowledge anyone is willing to pass on. The scary part is that this hobby is almost making me feel like I have developed OCD. (1) I once sat on a military promotion board where I was reviewing fitness reports on a Marine. His Officer had commented that "His ambition exceeds his intellect". I about fell on the floor. No doubt the Marine reported on did not recognize it as a slight but rather thought it was a compliment as there was no rebuttal comment.

I had already performed a cursory cleaning with wd-40 as well as a grit cleaning block followed by an ebay sourced track cleaner but that was obviously not enough because although the car runs without any noticeable hesitation freely there are spots if I stop it will not start again. I suspect that the momentum of the car carries it over the bad spots when traveling at speed.

I'm waiting on some track clips and I had already planned on pulling sections at a time for concentrated cleaning and eval by slowly running and stopping and starting the car before clipping them together and putting back on the board. I like your suggestions and will incorporate them; much appreciated. And thank you so much for the recommendation for Rail Zip. Didn't know about it. I am receptive to any other product recommendations as there is obviously a lot about this hobby I don't know.

"It is a lot of work, but your'e the one that wants to run on 50 year-old sectional track" True, what motivates me to use the old track and save the old cars is not a $ issue but kind of a dedication to using something that my father had gotten for me when I was a kid and had taken the time to store away and save. Still having a hard time dealing with his passing and I guess this is helping me to come to grips with it.

Thanks again.


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## Hoganflagle (Sep 21, 2019)

*Negative and positive, whose on first*



Rich Dumas said:


> With HO cars the negative rail is the one on the right looking in the direction of travel. It is a good idea to mark all of your jumper wires as plus or minus on both ends. As has been mentioned it is best to get all of the track joints as good as possible before you add jumpers, otherwise you could have a dead spot even if you had a lot of jumpers.


Thanks.

I don't have any positive or negative symbols on my power supplies but I was under the impression that I should run a wire from the right power supply post to the left rail terminal (direction of travel) and the right rail terminal lead wire would go to the controller and then a wire from the controller to the other power supply post.


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## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

condolences on your Dad passing.
he would be very proud of the dedication you have for getting the track running and correctly.
on the Aurora power packs, the left post is positive and the right is negative.
to verify this, place a cars pickups on the power pack's post and verify that the tires are running in the correct direction.
the advice you are getting from the other guys is priceless even if I do not agree with their learned assessment of DC amperage conductivity on solid type wire.
you are getting the best advice available and by asking any and all questions on the board you are getting views from several good sources.
I have 9" curves if you need any! (I do and will be willing to give them to you.... it is because there are so many available that folks joke that they cannot even give them away ..... literally) LOL


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## Hoganflagle (Sep 21, 2019)

*Thank you.*



alpink said:


> condolences on your Dad passing.
> he would be very proud of the dedication you have for getting the track running and correctly.
> on the Aurora power packs, the left post is positive and the right is negative.
> to verify this, place a cars pickups on the power pack's post and verify that the tires are running in the correct direction.
> ...


Thank you. I knew the day would eventually come but he took a rather bad stage exit that I was there for so it has kind of overwhelmed me. 

A very generous offer thank you. I have a few spare 9" curves too, but I may take you up on your offer if they are tits up as well.

Never thought to put the car right on the posts but that is damn good idea!


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## Rich Dumas (Sep 3, 2008)

See this on the skin effect: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skin_effect
You can use a volt meter to determine which terminal on the power supply is positive. The red connection on the volt meter is positive and the black one is negative. Just touch the two leads to the power supply terminals with the power supply plugged in and turned on. If you don't see a minus sign on the display the red lead will be connected to the plus terminal. If you were using an old mechanical meter the needle would try to read less than zero if you had the leads backwards. Once you have determined which terminal is which it would be a good idea to mark them.
If you were to connect one set of jumpers backwards that would apply a dead short across the power supply as soon as the controller was full on. That might burn out the power supply.


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## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

OK!
after consulting many sources I have discovered that I have been wrong in my understanding of Direct Current electron flow through solid and multi-strand wire of the same outside diameter (gauge) .
I apologize for causing so much consternation regarding the subject.
and, I am thankful for the prodding it took to make me investigate, thoroughly, the subject matter from many different perspectives.


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