# Filling Starship windows to look like glass?



## PixelMagic (Aug 25, 2004)

Hi all. Is there a clear glue or filler of some kind I can pour into my TOS 1/350th window insets so that it dried clear and flush with the hull? The insets sit kind of deep into the window seal, and I want my flush. I think I read somewhere long ago about clear resin?


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## robn1 (Nov 17, 2012)

Clear resin will work, I've seen it done. I've also seen it done with epoxy, but it tends to turn yellow.

It's usually done from the inside, with tape placed over the window on the outside. You could do it from outside, then sand it down flush.


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## PixelMagic (Aug 25, 2004)

Interesting. My concern in putting tape on the outside and filling from the inside, is that wouldn't that bond to the tape when it dries? Thus when you remove the tape, ripping out the window?


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## RossW (Jan 12, 2000)

It won't bond with the tape but use the super clear kind of cello tape; otherwise, the resin gets the texture of the tape in it.


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## PixelMagic (Aug 25, 2004)

Good to know. I wonder if I could use Future to fill the windows on the 1/350th TOS Enterprise. Or perhaps Testors Clear window Maker and Cement?


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## Fernando Mureb (Nov 12, 2006)

PixelMagic said:


> Good to know. I wonder if I could use Future to fill the windows on the 1/350th TOS Enterprise.


Sure! I have already done that sometimes and it worked very well.


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

I tried Pour-on on the AMT Smoothie, and it worked well. Caveat: it goes bad in, what, four months? So next time, I'll do the whole ship within that time. 

Regarding the tape, I used rubber cement to attach clear margarine tub plastic to the outside after rubbing some nose grease on it (the tub plastic) as a release agent. It might not have been necessary (shrug).


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## RossW (Jan 12, 2000)

I've been using Ding All Sanding Resin (surfboard repair) as suggested by Carson Dyle in the Tips & Tricks thread and while it goes on clear I'm having trouble with some applications where it stays tacky. It's critical that you get all the bubbles out before it dries or you will see them through the window.


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## colhero (May 18, 2006)

I have successfully used Elmers clear glue - as well as "cockpit" window glue. I just filled the windows and wiped the area smooth and the excess off.


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## RossW (Jan 12, 2000)

The problem I have with canopy glue or Microscale Kristal Klear is that on large openings the meniscus is quite apparent, at least to me.


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

RossW said:


> The problem I have with canopy glue or Microscale Kristal Klear is that on large openings the meniscus is quite apparent, at least to me.


That's why I went to the Pour-on, poured from the inside with the outer "mood". I think the holes are a bit too big for the glue/Klear solution, and I wanted a perfectly smooth look, flush to the hull.


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## irishtrek (Sep 17, 2005)

Elmers makes a clear glue, and all you would need to do is glue small pieces of styrene to the inside of the hull and maybe paint them from the out side with an acrylic paint color of your choosing and then fill in with the Elmers clear glue.


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## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

You could make clear window panes from clear sheet styrene and glue them into the recessed openings right on top of the inserts. Glue them in with Elmers clear craft glue, the stuff irishtrek mentioned above. Get yourself a round hole punch at the hardware or craft store (_Michaels_ sells a set of hole punches in 3 sizes that would work) for the round windows and trim the rectangular window panes with scissors. Takes a little time but nothing beats clear styrene for bubble free perfectly framed window panes. Any remaining gaps around the frames can we filled in with AVES Apoxy Sculpt. It turns grey when you mix it up so you don't really even need to paint it. It's what I did on my 1/350 TOS Enterprise.


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

If only we could wrap the silly thing in saran wrap. Clear, smooth and scale thickness.


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## veedubb67 (Jul 11, 2003)

Some of the Pros use Dental Acrylic and from what I've seen it looks very nice. Essentially you do the same as other products; cover the opening with tape and fill from the back. Dries hard and clear.

Rob
Iwata Padawan


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## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

veedubb67 said:


> Some of the Pros use Dental Acrylic and from what I've seen it looks very nice. Essentially you do the same as other products; cover the opening with tape and fill from the back. Dries hard and clear.
> 
> Rob
> Iwata Padawan


I was able to purchase an acrylic nail product at my local beauty supply store. One part is powder and the other is the liquid monomer. Worked the same as the dental acrylic. The monomer gives off strong vapors (I keep it in a Ziploc bag) and will eat any paint real quick so it's best to mask the window opening from the outside with clear tape and fill from the inside with the acrylic powder before you paint the outside. Add a drop of the monomer and you end up with a clear window. 
Haven't used it enough yet to know if you need to be concerned with bubbles like you do with two part liquid resins. When I do use it, I'll probably spray the inside surface with black followed by white for light blocking and even light dispersion like I usually do for lit models. Then I'll fill the window with the nail acrylic. Afterwards I can lay down strips of adhesive backed foil to frame the window from the inside in case any of the black paint gets marred by the monomer. The foil will prevent any light leaks.


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## veedubb67 (Jul 11, 2003)

Yep, after I submitted my response I thought about nail acrylic powder. You're right - same stuff.

Rob
Iwata Padawan


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## RossW (Jan 12, 2000)

I got some from a beauty supply shop and tried it out. It sets up so quickly that you can't make a batch and spread it over the windows (it does indeed remove paint pretty quickly). I tried the pouring the powder into the window and adding a drop of the liquid but it didn't fill up the whole area, so there were holes.


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## feek61 (Aug 26, 2006)

Dental Acrylic is the way to go. You tape the outside and fill the inside with the powder. Then you drop a few drops of the polymer and you have a super strong clear window. Dental Acrylic can be expensive but nail acrylic works just as well for our purposes.


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## PixelMagic (Aug 25, 2004)

Where could I purchase the acrylic nail powder? And what liquid goes with it?


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## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

PixelMagic said:


> Where could I purchase the acrylic nail powder? And what liquid goes with it?


Here's the powder:

http://www.sallybeauty.com/Organic-Polymer-Powder/NOLIFT2,default,pd.html#q=no+lift&sz=20&start=13

Here's the liquid:

http://www.sallybeauty.com/secrets-acrylic-liquid/SBS-164434,default,pd.html#start=1

Online, the powder sells for $7.99 for a 1 oz container. The liquid sells for $9.99 for a 2 oz bottle. 

I got mine at the _Sally Beauty Supply _store near me. I explained what I was looking for and the girl pulled out the the liquid and powder from behind the counter. It says it's for "professional use" only but I guess she didn't care that I wasn't a nail professional once I explained what I would use it for; and I didn't look like someone planning to "huff" it lol. 
There was also a _No Lift _brand of the liquid but it was more expensive than the _Beauty Secrets _ brand and she said the Beauty Secrets liquid was the same stuff. 
You need a tiny scoop for the powder, it's like flour consistency. And some kind of a pippet or maybe a syringe to draw up the liquid and release it into the powder. I advise filling the window opening to slightly overflowing with the powder so you don't have any holes. Use clear scotch tape on the outside and fill from the inside as feek61 said. 

The liquid gives off very strong fumes even with the inner and outer caps screwed on tight so I keep it and the powder in a sealed Ziploc bag or it will smell up my whole work area:


Nail liquid and acrylic powder by trekriffic, on Flickr

Steve Neill used the dental acrylic version of this stuff on his big TOS Enterprise and swears by it.


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## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

I'm tempted to do a little experiment. Carve a square opening into some .080 styrene sheet. Place a piece of tape down over the backside of the opening. Then cut a matching sized piece of thin clear sheet styrene and place that into the opening pressed down against the tape so it sits flush to the bottom of the opening. Then fill the opening with nail powder and add a drop or two of the liquid. I wonder if that would give me a nice flush, flat, clear window with no gaps when viewed looking from the other side. In other words, a window that looks like glass.


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## RossW (Jan 12, 2000)

I only have the nail powder so maybe the dental stuff works better (I think you can get it in white, too). I tried putting the powder in the opening and then applying the liquid but left holes and a lumpy mess.


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## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

I just did the experiment I mentioned earlier. I'll post some pics of the results later.


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## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

OK. Here's how the experiment with the nail acrylic went...

After making my window openings in a piece of .060 sheet styrene I masked the backside with cellophane tape. I made sure not to get any fingerprint residue on the tape and that no dust specks or other contaminants got into the openings. I placed a piece of thin clear sheet styrene in the opening closest to the edge of the sheet styrene but not in the other one. Then I scooped some of the powder into each opening; enough to be level with the frame:


Nail Acrylic Window Test by trekriffic, on Flickr

Holding my nose, I used a plastic pippet to saturate the powder with nail liquid:


Nail Acrylic Window Test by trekriffic, on Flickr

After 5 minutes I went back and peeled off the tape. The windows were filled and bubble free. And hard as a rock. The appearance is of a clear translucent window perfectly flush with the surface.
I did a little wet sanding with 600 grit to remove some lingering tape reside from the window with no clear styrene pane:


Nail Acrylic Window Test by trekriffic, on Flickr

The window with the clear styrene insert wiped off clean with a little 70% rubbing alcohol on a soft rag.

Some Future was brushed on to see what effect that would have on clarity:


Nail Acrylic Window Test by trekriffic, on Flickr



Nail Acrylic Window Test by trekriffic, on Flickr

The windows aren't exactly crystal clear but I believe with some practice and the use of even finer grade polishing films you could get them close to that:


Nail Acrylic Window Test by trekriffic, on Flickr

In summary I was able to create flat, thick windows with no bubbles that are very hard and durable. No shrinkage that I can see either. To me they look like windows. And for those desiring a translucent window for better light diffusion you can't do much better than this.


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## RossW (Jan 12, 2000)

Looks like you had much better luck than me. Maybe I didn't use enough liquid, or maybe it's because you levelled it out first, I don't know.


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## jgoldsack (Apr 26, 2004)

Nice testing! I think I will have to try that myself!


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## J_Indy (Jan 28, 2013)

Maybe leaving out the window inserts at the hanger bay and filling the windows with acrylic resin will help alleviate the spine gap problem a bit....


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## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

Something that ocurred to me after my tests yesterday was that the clarity would probably improve with thinner windows. For my test the windows were .060 thick. I think the key is making sure the powder is evenly distributed within the window frame and really saturating it with the liquid. I also failed to mention earlier that you can add powder even after the liquid is applied so long as you are quick about it.


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## RossW (Jan 12, 2000)

The other problem I found with the clear window inserts on the 1:350 TOS E is that you can make out the thickness of the plastic which is way out of scale. I don't think I'd do glass-clear windows but it would be good for things like the rec room on the 1:350 Refit (maybe even the arboretum or VIP lounge?)


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## J_Indy (Jan 28, 2013)

RossW said:


> The other problem I found with the clear window inserts on the 1:350 TOS E is that you can make out the thickness of the plastic which is way out of scale. I don't think I'd do glass-clear windows but it would be good for things like the rec room on the 1:350 Refit (maybe even the arboretum or VIP lounge?)


Funny - at 5:45 as the refit passes you can see what looks like the top windows of the rec room unlit, then turn on. Actually, I think it is just the angle of the camera catching the thickness of the model's hull, and then getting a more direct view of the lighted windows as the camera angle changes.


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