# Long post - lots of questions



## Heliopolis (Nov 24, 2005)

I just discovered this board a short time ago. I've never built a track layout, so I have questions.

Before I start with the questions, let me tell you all what I "think" I'm looking to do. I am looking to build a track that I will use in my garage. Hopefully something that I can lift off off the legs, and lean against the wall while not in use. Or perhaps use some type of method for raising it up close to the ceiling. The ceiling is 9'4" in my garage.

I do know that I want to use HO scale, and plastic track, and from what I'm reading Tomy is the way to go. I'm looking at the Tomy International set as a starting point, and will add track as needed to get the desired layout.

A layout that will fit on a door (3'0" X 6'8") looks appealing, but I'm afraid that might be too small. Just how long of a straight does it take for HO cars to hit full speed, and then still have time to slow down for the next turn?

Most of the time, I doubt I will have anyone to race, but I'm pretty sure I want to go with a 4-lane layout, for those times that I do have family, or friends that are interested in racing.

I'm thinking of considering a 4 X 8, or 5 X 9 layout to give me more options for track designs, but I want to be careful about having to reach too far to marshal deslotted cars, since I will be by myself most of the time.

I'm not too interested in landscaping, but I do want the layout to look nice. I'm thinking of mounting the track on some green carpet, or felt. And I do want some type of electronic lap counter, and timing system.

So, let's suppose that I buy some track, and start playing around with layout sizes, and track configurations. Before I mount the track, should I do some wiring up front, in case I want to use better controllers later, or a different power system?

I'm thinking that I would use the Tomy terminal tracks, and have one terminal track, and one power supply dedicated to each lane to prevent surges. Is this okay for starters, or should I plan to do something different, in the beginning?

Where is a good place to buy Tomy tracks? Online, or retail stores are okay by me, although I've not located anyone local to me that sells them.

I will truly appreciate any responses, and I'll warn you that your response is likely to trigger more questions. -- Greg


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## AMX (Nov 1, 2005)

A lift up out of the way or hinge to wall thing is good. A door is most likely way to small. 4x8 is probably as small as you want, and if you go any smaller you will probably wished you hadn't later.

Get a reacher arm if the stretching for cars is an issue. Yes you want to prewire some stuff first.....I would solder power taps on at least 4 or 5 sections at various locations and run juice to all of them. 4 lanes is way better and looks cooler....you can run on the 2 inside lanes and not have your cars drop the rear tires off the track.

Buy a couple International sets...any place is as good as the next...ebay shipping almost reached in store prices in the end....returns are easier to a store....you most likely can't get track any cheaper anyway even used.

Power packs pretty much suck, but if you must use them use at least one maybe 2 per lane.

A straightaway can be 20 feet long and some cars use every bit of it...a 7 footer on a 4x8 will be fun, but nothing like a long one. 

This is just a quick response....you will get more info.


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## TK Solver (Mar 18, 2004)

What type of cars do you prefer to race? Specifically, do you like non-magnet cars, weak magnet cars or strong magnet cars? Smaller tracks are ok for non-magnet cars but you will likely get bored quickly with the faster magnet cars on such tracks. If you're not yet sure about which cars you like best, that's probably an issue you'll want to address before making too much of an investment beyond the Super International set. That set comes with four very fast magnet cars. Unfortunately, if you want to try out non-magnet cars, the standard controllers that come with that set don't work very well with non-magnet cars, which drive much easier with higher-resistance controllers. You would need to buy a 90-Ohm controller and a few Thunderjet cars to see if you like that type of racing. Weak magnet cars, such as X-Tractions, run fine with the stock controllers so you could buy a few of those cars right away.

Check Gregory Braun's web site -- www.hoslotcarracing.com -- for a relatively complete overview of many of the track building issues. He also sells track.


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## Heliopolis (Nov 24, 2005)

AMX, TK Solver,

Thanks for the great info. So, after I decide on a layout size, and track configuration, should I leave the Tomy terminal tracks out of the loop, and wire for power taps, and controller stations? Or should I go ahead, and put the terminal tracks in place anyway, plus wire for power taps? Two power packs are included in an International set. Can you run two of the power packs that come with the International set on one lane without harming anything?

Now, regarding the outside lane of a turn, I thought of maybe using turn borders to take away the advantage of "leaning" into the guard rail. Now I'm thinking of putting in the guard rails, and just practicing most of the time on one of the two inside lanes. If I have friends over for racing, we would of course rotate lanes. What's your opinion on turn borders, guard rails, etc?

As far as what type of cars to race - I think I'll want to run all categories. I was introduced to HO scale in the late 60's, and I think there is something that draws me to the old cars that would "fishtail" like crazy coming out of the corners. Then again, I'm sure I'll periodically feel the need for speed, and will be attracted to magnet cars.

Do you all know of anyone that raises their table top to the ceiling for storage? -- Greg


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## AMX (Nov 1, 2005)

Raise the thing up with a decent cable and pulley system. make sure it goes up even. You will get tired of doing that and probably want one hinged to the wall after time. Also if it ever drops you will be sorry. They make devices to raise and lower boats and canoes, but they are easily duplicated.

I like aprons....gaurd rails are a drag.

If you leave the terminal tracks in wire all of the additional hot sections to the bottom of the Tomy terminal tracks....that way you can still plug in power...a little reconfiguring may have to be done...it is common sense if you understand wiring. 

I have run 2 wall packs on 1 lane before...no big deal. A variable lab supply works 10 times beter if you feel like dropping the money on one....I have 3 to sell if you do.

I also have several wall warts if you decide to go that way and want more. I have absolutely no use for them and would sell them at a good price.

the stock controllers will fail after a while so be ready to buy more of them or other types of controllers

I like non magnet cars like T-jets and AFX cars....by far my favorite.

Low magnetism Magna traction cars are my second favorite. Full stick cars are cool, but I run them like 2% of the time.

My track grew to around 200+ square feet of dedicated space before I was happy...and slotcars are not even a big hobby for me.


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## TK Solver (Mar 18, 2004)

There's talk from time to time about keeping things simple and just enjoying the fun of the hobby and I'm firmly in that camp. For the most part, you can stick with the stock set components and have a blast. My opinion would be to stick with the stock terminal tracks and transformers for awhile until you figure out exactly what you want. To me, as long as all four lanes are equally powered -- even if it's not a lot of power -- the racing will be competitive and fun.

Having said all that, AMX is definitely right about the stock controllers. Those are the weakest link in the system and probably won't last six months. Ideally, you'd like to control all four lanes with equal technology. Parma Econos are an economical and reliable step up. You'll hear a variety of opinions on the best resistor values if you were only going to buy four controllers. I'd suggest 60's for everything but the Thunderjets. Unfortunately, they really need 90's or 120's. That's one advantage of having your own power supply where you could turn down the power when you run the Thunderjets and still use the same controllers. Otherwise, you can spend $200 on 8 of the cheapest Parmas, 4 for the magnet cars and 4 for the non-magnets.

I know most people don't seem to like the guard rails but I don't mind them, especially if you have part of your track on a second level crossing over other track. You'll find that when friends/relatives visit, they often need every advantage you can give them to offset the timing skills you will develop. Give them the "easiest" lane and give yourself a challenge. Also, different cars handle better than others. With so many variables to play with, I don't see guard rails getting in the way of a good race. Plus, it's pretty easy to mount billboards on them to add a little to the look.

I've seen tracks with custom wiring and custom power supplies but I have a blast on my "stock" track. I'm running about 82 feet of Tomy track per lane on a four-lane road course with one wall wart powering each lane. I modified the terminal tracks so that the lanes are powered independently to avoid power surges when a car on a paired lane deslots. About the zaniest thing I've done is print out logo bill boards, glue stick them to thin cardboard and then glue that to the outside of the stock guard rails.

The biggest hassle is covering it and cleaning it. Plan to cover it when you're not using it to keep the dust off. I just use a couple sheets.


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

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## Heliopolis (Nov 24, 2005)

Thanks for the detailed, and carefully thought out responses. The information you all are providing is going to be priceless to me, when I get started on my own layout.

No one has touched on electronic lap counters. Would anyone care to comment on their preferences and/or experiences with lap counters? -- Greg


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## Manning (Mar 2, 2004)

*track size......*

Good comments above.....

Another opinion on track size.........

If you are afraid that a door track will be too small, it will. I was all set on having a 4x8 just because of the convenience of the plywood size, then I set up the layout on the floor......Way too small. I had enough room to do 9 1/4 feet table length, which was enough to add another 15" straight to some sections. Really opened up the layout. FYI, "Mudtown Motorplex" is my layout, there are few pics in another thread. 

After using my track for a while, I think 5' width is too much. Would make marshalling difficult if running by yourself. 4' width a pretty good strech for me, and the table is only 2' off the ground. 

I think a 4x12 would be ideal. Could get a nice looonng straight in that space, and it's not so big that you would have to walk too far to retrieve cars. Too bad that wasn't an option for me........

Bottom line, make the track as big as practical. 

Re: cars topping out....... The straight on my track is about 6' long, the corners at each end are 15"/18" radius, and none of my cars that run well can top out. I have one JL Xtrac that goes into "turbo boost" at about the 4' mark, which makes it nearly impossible to get shut down for the corner (track isn't wired for brakes, yet). Makes it interesting.......Good thing the walls are padded...

Re: grass like underlayment..... I used green felt. Looks OK, not the best, but it was cheap and easy. It does trap lint, dirt, etc. My track is hinged to the wall, so it is stored vertical, and thus very little dust settles on it. I have seen pics of tracks on green vinyl, and it looks OK, a little too shiny for me. But it would make clean up MUCH easier. Just don't use any fabric with much thickness. The track may become "humped" between screws cause the fabric is pushing up....


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## Mike(^RacerX^) (Mar 15, 2003)

Manning said:


> Bottom line, make the track as big as practical.


I couldn't agree more.

I built a small track for my first layout.I grew tired of it quickly,and then went to my current layout,which is a 4X16.
Im really happy with it,but I am already scheming how I could make it 24ft long if I turned it the other way in my basement.
Im going to wait awhile for that one.WHen I do build it,I will do a Maxtrack setup.

http://www.maxtraxracing.com/

And for me personally,I wouldnt go any wider then 4ft.Im already stretching a bit with that wen I have to reslot a car when I am doing laps by myself.

One more thing.Power.You can get a wall wart setup to work well enough,but I moved up to one of the power supplies Alan Galinko sells

http://www.slotcars.org/hodra/ag&gProducts2.htm

I got the one at the top of the page.I installed it on my layout last night,and I LOVE it!!!

Mike


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

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## Heliopolis (Nov 24, 2005)

Driving the layout for a while, before fastening it down, is something that I had already thought of, but I would have totally neglected trying different types of cars on the layout, if you had not said that about the Thunderjets struggling with the banked turns. I was considering trying banked turns on one end, but since I was planning on buying the International set, I would have only had the cars that are included with the set for trying out the layout. What's a good source for buying Thunderjets?


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## dlw (Aug 17, 1999)

*Cheap Thunderjets*

Do a search for 'jl slots' on E-bay and you'll see some nice deals where you can get JL cars (both X-Tractions and Thunderjets) for under $10 each. And consider MSRP is around $12-15.

Also check to see if any toy, train, or hobby shows come to or near your area.......good deals can be had there.


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## AMX (Nov 1, 2005)

You can get at least 2 lanes of bank turns running with TJets if you have a 4 lane track

You put a guard rail on the bottom and run that lane, then slip a pice of card stock in between the upper and lower sections so the cars can lean on it as they go around. This way you run the inside lane of both tracks....

Of course, all my Thunderjets are fast enough to fly right around those banks with just centrifical force holding them :tongue: ......except the bone stock collector ones, but they don't go on a track at all so that isn't an issue


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## Heliopolis (Nov 24, 2005)

Now there's an idea. Though I'm not sure I would like the aesthetics of a turn set up like that.

Is the problem with TJets and banking, the lack of speed, or is it a handling issue?


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## TK Solver (Mar 18, 2004)

TJets are touchier through the corners. You will find that any bumps in the turns can cause problems with deslotting if you accelerate at just the right time. I trim/shave the connecting tabs to make the joints as smooth as possible and that really helps. You'll see all this with your first layout. It's hardly noticeable with the magnet cars except for the extra clickity clacks as they pass over those joints. But in your quest for perfection you can spend five minutes here and there and make a big difference.


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## Heliopolis (Nov 24, 2005)

What do you typically use for trimming tabs?


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

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## Heliopolis (Nov 24, 2005)

I've never owned a Dremel, but I've wanted one for a while. Is the Dremel brand the way go to? I think Sears used to sell their own version. I guess this could be the topic of another thread.

Are there any alignment problems with the sides of the slots on Tomy tracks? -- Greg


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## Heliopolis (Nov 24, 2005)

Can you use regular circle track and build a little bit of banking into a corner by raising the outside of the turn, or is the plastic too rigid?


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## roadrner (Jul 21, 1999)

Heliopolis said:


> I've never owned a Dremel, but I've wanted one for a while. Is the Dremel brand the way go to? I think Sears used to sell their own version. I guess this could be the topic of another thread.
> 
> Greg


 
Dremel probably made them for Sears to be sold under the Craftsman's label. If I recall, they seemed to look very similar. But then again, I suffer from CRS.  rr


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

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## Heliopolis (Nov 24, 2005)

Does that type of banking actually help a car get around the track faster, or does it just help the car stay in the slot by the mere fact that the car will naturally slow a little (given the same throttle) due to the incline of the road? -- Greg

Edit: To fix typo


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## dlw (Aug 17, 1999)

Banking allows the use of centrifical force, which in turn, alows you to go through a turn faster, than a flat curve will. As mentioned above, tjets will fall down the banked turns you get in a set........and silicones will prevernt this until they get dirty.

As for how to tweak your track for tjets, Tomy track has those 'S' rails at the track joints. These rails are notorious for literally catching tjst pickup shoes and 'throwing' cars out of the slot. To eliminate this, gently push the 'S' rails down so you can't feel them with your finger. If you can't feel them, a tjet won't either.


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## ParkRNDL (Mar 20, 2002)

Heliopolis said:


> Does that type of banking actually help a car get around the track faster, or does it just help the car stay in the slot by the mere fact that the car will naturally slow a little (given the same throttle) due to the incline of the road? -- Greg
> 
> Edit: To fix typo


I've raced Tjets on a 4-lane track that had a LOOOONG front straight (I'm thinking at least 16 feet, maybe 20) with a 180-degree bank at the end. It was built using older AFX track... I guess that would make the bank 9" radius curves on the inside, 12" radius on the outside? Dunno if they made 15s, and it's been a while since I've been there... Anyway, the way to get Tjets, including skinny-tire ones, through the bank was to run full-tilt down the straight and let go for just a flash at the entrance of the bank and then nail it again, full throttle all the way around the curve. Worked for all my stock Tjets with WJs skinny silicones. There's a group that occasionally runs VHORS type races on that track and they have no problem with the bank...

Scott, where are you? You've raced at Warren's more than I have, I'm sure you could add something here...

--rick


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

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## zanza (Sep 23, 2005)

AfxToo said:


> I mostly used a Dremel with a cylindrical cutter but a sharp hobby knife will work too. Be careful with your fingers.
> 
> The only thing you're trimming are the little rectangular locking bumps on the tabs. If you connect two track pieces and slowly start pulling them apart you'll see how these bumps cause little ramps to form at the connection. Cutting off the bumps eliminates this effect. Since you are attaching the track to the table the locking bumps aren't needed.



One question: I assume you gently rub off only the protruding part of the tab and not cut the whole tab, no?
Because it will then make a hole wich is not better for preventing deslotting....
But when even a part of the tab is cutted, won’t it make a hole even?? Do you fill it then with something? and what?


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

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## zanza (Sep 23, 2005)

Ah OK I finally understand (dumby I am)...you only need to remove the tab (or part of it ) from UNDER the track.... As I've already nailed down mine, but on two parts of the tracks that I have bumps.
Time to think to gently remove the naisl and cut these tab.... My magnetic cars don't have problems but some TJet deslots too easily

Thanks for the tip


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## Heliopolis (Nov 24, 2005)

Since I don't have any Tomy track yet, I am wondering if anyone could take a closeup picture of a track section, and post it, so that we can see these little ramps that AfxToo is so patiently trying to describe to us? -- Greg


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## zanza (Sep 23, 2005)

http://shop.goldnhobbies.com.au/images/AFX%202%20CROSSOVERS_1.jpg 

On these 2 piece of track you'll see the part that must been cut and also, the flat tab that will "make" a ramp, if it's not perfectly aligned with other piece of track


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## Heliopolis (Nov 24, 2005)

I think I see what you're talking about. It's just outside the power rails on the track surface, where the car wheels would be riding. Correct? Not inside the slot.


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## noddaz (Aug 6, 1999)

*Banked turns... .02*

Banked turns can be fun.. (Tomy or Aurora) But I would not have more than one on the track. The sectional track also takes quite a bit of work to get them anywhere usable. (I don't think that they come close to smooth :lol: ...)
And I don't think that a stock Tjet with stock tires will make it through a banked turn. They enter the turn, lose traction and speed and fall off...  
A banked turn can be fun. But be prepared to work them. I doubt that you can use one "out of the box"...
******
On further reflection....
I have a Tyco super Sound set... (2 lane Banked turns both ends)
My son and I could get everything but totally stock Tjets to go through those banked turns with no problem. The Tyco banked turn also has a smoother joint than Tomy or AF/x. With a totally stock Tjet if you could get two laps back to back you really had a groove on...

Scott


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## ParkRNDL (Mar 20, 2002)

Scott, you mean stock old nasty Tjet Aurora rubber tires, right? Because I can get a skinny tire Tjet through a 9" bank without too much trouble as long as it has skinny silicones...

--rick


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## noddaz (Aug 6, 1999)

ParkRNDL said:


> Scott, you mean stock old nasty Tjet Aurora rubber tires, right? Because I can get a skinny tire Tjet through a 9" bank without too much trouble as long as it has skinny silicones...
> 
> --rick


Stock old nasty tires...
Sillys make all the difference in the world...

scott


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## Heliopolis (Nov 24, 2005)

So are you guys saying that as long as a TJet has skinny silicones, it can get through banked turns okay, on a Tomy or Tyco track?


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## noddaz (Aug 6, 1999)

*Much better... But...*



Heliopolis said:


> So are you guys saying that as long as a TJet has skinny silicones, it can get through banked turns okay, on a Tomy or Tyco track?


The cars work much better with sillys...
But I won't say that otherwise stock Tjets will make it everytime....

Now on another note I understand that at the Shootout there was trouble with VHORS style Tjets making it through a Tomy banked turn on the inside lane...
But I was not there. So my info on that is second hand...

Scott


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## The Toolman (Dec 4, 2005)

Heliopolis said:


> Since I don't have any Tomy track yet, I am wondering if anyone could take a closeup picture of a track section, and post it, so that we can see these little ramps that AfxToo is so patiently trying to describe to us? -- Greg


Heres ya a site with everything you ever want to see/know about different tracks, cars and etc.

http://www.modelmotorist.com/

Ronnie


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## zanza (Sep 23, 2005)

Heliopolis said:


> I think I see what you're talking about. It's just outside the power rails on the track surface, where the car wheels would be riding. Correct? Not inside the slot.



Exactly.....and I've followed the patient advice from AFXToo, took out my Dremel and cutted all those nasty tabs, and now no bumps at all... Great!


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## Manning (Mar 2, 2004)

One cannot stress how important it is to grind the little bumps off the locking tabs of the track... Makes a HUGE difference.


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

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## noddaz (Aug 6, 1999)

*Remove the bump*

Right here in the middle of the red circle is the part you have to modify...
I just trimmed the bump off the tab with a razor knife. (The bump has a blue arrow...)
Just be careful...


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## zanza (Sep 23, 2005)

Personally, I've removed all the square shaped inside not only the protuberent part.... leaving only the superior part of the L on the surface of the track


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## Heliopolis (Nov 24, 2005)

Great stuff guys. Thanks for the links to the pictures, and for the detailed explanations. I'm sure I'll be spending some time at modelmotorist.com.

Next question: Please help me understand what's going on in this picture:
http://www.hoslotcarracing.com/image/DriverStationWiring.jpg

This is on Gregory Braun's site under the construction section. I've read over this several times, and I still don't quite understand what's going on with the terminal strip that the controller wires are connected to. I can tell that over on the right, there are three wires (red/white/black) coming from the controller station, in addition to the white wire being fused. No problem there. I think I got that part.

Now, on the top side of the terminal strip, there are two black and two red wires connected to the strip. One of the pairs (black/red) must go to the primary power tap. And then if there is a secondary power tap, another pair would go from the primary power tap, to the secondary power tap. Correct?

If I'm correct so far, what is the other pair of wires (black/red) that is at the top of the terminal strip? Do they go to the power supply? If it's explained, on the web page, I'm missing it somewhere. I'm sure this will be obvious to most of you, but I'm having a little trouble understanding this. Thanks in advance for your answers. -- Greg


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## Turbo880Kawasak (Feb 9, 2005)

look at the 2 black wires on top there is a jumper connecting them togther
to keep the wire connection going that is the brake wire so useing it
for all 2,3,4,5(however many you have) driver stations wouldnt mater 
that is what i see


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## noddaz (Aug 6, 1999)

*wire one lane at a time...*

Use this picture as a guide:









And when you are done multiple lanes the whole thing will look something like this:










Both of these are listed at the HOslotcar website under "power"
Scott


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## Heliopolis (Nov 24, 2005)

Thanks Turbo. I hadn't noticed the jumper between the two black wires at the top. Unfortunately, I still don't understand what's going on here. Besides, isn't the brake wire usually red?


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## Heliopolis (Nov 24, 2005)

Thanks noddaz. I think I understand the diagrams that you posted. But I don't understand what's going on in the picture that I posted, even though they are from the same Web site.


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## noddaz (Aug 6, 1999)

Heliopolis said:


> Thanks noddaz. I think I understand the diagrams that you posted. But I don't understand what's going on in the picture that I posted, even though they are from the same Web site.


Basically they should be the same thing.
just one is a nice neat drawing with straight neat lines and the other is a picture of the real wires that turn out not quite so tidy...
But as long as the wires line up correctly on the barrier strips you are ok...
When I wired a friends track I went in with 5 colors of wire. Red, white, blue and yellow for the lane colors and black for the returns. I also had 4 rolls of colored electrical tape to mark the black wires on both ends for the color of the lane they went to. It was a bit time consuming but any problems with the track wiring can be sorted out quickly...

Scott


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

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## Heliopolis (Nov 24, 2005)

Thanks guys. I'll quit worrying about making the photo reconcile with the diagram. I like the idea of using terminal lugs instead of the terminal strips. Good advise, as always. -- Greg


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