# where should brushless be run



## David Washburn (Aug 26, 2004)

hey what class do u think the clubs should stick the brushless in


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## hock (Dec 31, 1998)

Simple if you run one you should be in your own class. Brushless is NOT the same as a brushed motor. If there is not enough I think they should not be thrown into another class just because they bought one. And if the time comes I think it should be they same the other way.


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## FishRC (Sep 28, 2001)

This is a move in the RC industry like any other. This is so much like the days when the first RC10 hit the market. Brushless will take over and the brushed motors will fade to a nitch market. Run them in the same class as the ROAR rules call out. If it fits the stock rules, run them in stock and in mod... both the stock and mod motors are allowed if they fit the ROAR spec.

Some clubs might split them out for a while as brushed motors fade and more drivers purchase brushless systems. This will just add to the stress of more classes with fewer drivers.


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## tomwattskelley (May 24, 2002)

This maybe an unfair poll becase they now have stock equivalent and modified type of brushless motors.

I just wonder why we make a big deal about brushless motors when last year when the epic binary2 motors came out everyone was running them in stock club racing. It seems for club racing anything goes as most do not go through tech.
Although I haven't seen them on track yet, I'm interested. I hope Brushless motors have promise for the future and it might be good if we tolerate them mixed in at a club level racing. They just might be able to level the playing field in stock racing and keep the maintence level down for stock and modified motors.


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## David Washburn (Aug 26, 2004)

because these are way diff than the binary, a binary is brushed and wears out and slower, they also drain batts faster, that is why they are diff


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## tomwattskelley (May 24, 2002)

Yes they are completely different. But All I was trying to say that it would be nice to find ways to allow brushless class room to grow, perhaps by a little tolerance to allow a little mixing in with the brushed ones. Since the Binary motors were tolerated when they came out at club races, for ROAR sanctioned races thats a different story. ROAR has already made a class for brushless and I believe its seperate.

Now take for instance a novice guy who just wants a motor they don't have to tune and do much maintence on without buying a dyno, a lathe and brushes and springs and all that crap that make running brushed motors expensive compared to a brushless. Since there's a stock equivelant a brushless motor would be fine, he may not really drive well but at least he's a relatively maintence free setup, and could learn to drive with it untill the class becomes more prevelant.


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## burbs (Apr 21, 2002)

at the paved nats a month ago.. corey heft top qualified bothe 19 turn and brushless.. he went 41 404 in 19 turn and 41 405 in brushless... the motors are rated at a 17 to 15 tyurn.. but were pretty much dead nuts even with 19t.....


even if you change the profile to the stock profile, it isnt like stock.. the different profiles only ,limit rpm.s they do not limit power.. so u may go as fast as a stock motor top speed wise.. but out of the turns u will smoke em like a mod...

 the class should be its own.. if it picks up.. in my opinion i think it is a phaze like any pther class. i hope it dies soon.. brushed motors are the way to go/...


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## David Washburn (Aug 26, 2004)

no way dude this is a phase, they are getting to popular to fast, and if it comes to it the brushless will take over the brushed


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## FishRC (Sep 28, 2001)

I agree that the brushed motor is going the way of wiper arm speed controls. Motor builders still sinking the big $ into brushed motors is wasting there money as well as risking there future. In 5 years you will only see brushed in the RTR's and other starter setups. For racing it’s going to be the brushless. Yes they need work. But if the big motor companies wait too long and dig there heals in too deep, the only people they will be selling to is the high end racer. As much as we do not want to hear, it’s the back yard basher and the local drivers tearing it up in front of there house that buy the products that make the money for the manufactures. They will spend the $200 to get the motor/spedo combo and then run it until the RC dies, buy a new RC and install it in that to run a few more years or more. They never will have to buy a lathe, brushes, springs, zap the mags, or likely even take it out to clean it until they move it to there next RC. IF the motor does smoke, they just have to spend the cost of one good mod brushed motor to replace it and run another 4+ years on it. That’s not what I'd call a phase, I'd call that radical change.


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## hock (Dec 31, 1998)

This aguement sounds very familiar. Infact alot like nitro


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## tomwattskelley (May 24, 2002)

maybe even like 2stroke 125cc vs 250cc 4stoke bike racing.


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## Nil (Dec 8, 2001)

Well said, Fish!


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## Trixter (Oct 8, 1998)

Great thoughts and a good finish FISHRC. 

So true.


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## Trixter (Oct 8, 1998)

Part 2............ The LiPoly batteries are going to come into prominence soon too, I know that now they are expensive now but as they become popular the prices will come down as with everything. So Battery Matchers beware. Get on the band wagon or find yourself with a lot of stuff that you don't know what to do with. Voice of experience speaking!


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## burbs (Apr 21, 2002)

HA HA HA HA TO FUNNY..... remember,, sanctioning bodies have to aprove batteries, and motors for them to be legal.. if they vote and are not aproved.. your so called forcasted take over wont happen... brushles motors willnot take over anything.. they are a phaze.. brushless technology has been around since the eighties... it still hasnt taken over.. i dont see it happening...

people tend to run what the pros run.. the hot stuff... i dont see any pro level brushless racing in the near future..


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## David B. (Nov 23, 2004)

I've been in and out and around R/C for a good many years now, and IMHO thus far it has been the brushless systems that have come and gone. What makes this latest resurgance any different than the one that happened about 10 years ago with brushless motors? Is it simply being a little cheaper this go round?

I personally can't see brushless ever totally supplanting brushed motors. Coexisting? Sure, but not replacing. No time soon anyway. They said HD TVs would be the norm in 7 years, 5 years ago. Everyone here have a nice big HD TV yet? Same thing. Some tech takes years to take over a market if it ever does. Just like biodiesel and hydrogen cells were going to revolutionize the auto industry...2 decades ago.

Not really trying to stir anything up here, but I've seen claims like this in the past, and they seldom come to pass.


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## tommckay (Sep 26, 2001)

Good points David. It will be the wave of the future, but how distant is still to be determined.

I think this insurgence of Brushless will take off a little easier with the introduction of the ESC that will run both Brushed and Brushless motors. That will make it easier for some to get in and try Brushless by not having to buy the ESC and motor together. Buy the ESC first & run it with your brushed motors, and then when you need a new motor you can buy a brushless.


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## FishRC (Sep 28, 2001)

There is also other factors why this time around brushless likely will catch on. This time there are specs by ROAR to define the motors that all builders can use to make systems compatible with one another. Also they work better this time, the electronics are better and the tech it is built on is more mature. 

The other factor most are missing is that brushed motors have become more costly to run. Brushes, springs always were part of the cost, but now include the lathe, balancing, dyno, and so on now are almost required just to keep up. That all makes the cost of a brushless drop way down in comparison.


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## kevinm (Jan 16, 2002)

burbs said:


> HA HA HA HA TO FUNNY..... remember,, sanctioning bodies have to aprove batteries, and motors for them to be legal.. if they vote and are not aproved.. your so called forcasted take over wont happen... brushles motors willnot take over anything.. they are a phaze.. brushless technology has been around since the eighties... it still hasnt taken over.. i dont see it happening.....


In case you weren't paying attention, ROAR has a set of rules for brushless motors now.



burbs said:


> people tend to run what the pros run.. the hot stuff... i dont see any pro level brushless racing in the near future..


Has it occurred to you that the "pros" aren't running them for any of these reasons:
a) They'd never SEEN one.
b) They're SPONSORED by motor builders.
c) There wasn't a LEGAL class to run them in until recently.

In our outdoor season in Grand Rapids, we ran a mixed class of modified brushed motors and brushless in touring cars. The brushless cars won the "A" main 14 times to 11 for brushed (NOT counting the 7 brushless wins by a multi-time national champion), and frequently out-qualified the Nitro cars. And we all used the Novak 5800, which is considered a "mild" modified. The new Reedy is supposed to be much more powerful.


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## David B. (Nov 23, 2004)

Yes, they (brushless motors) appear to making more inroads than they did even just a few years ago. I've been away from the hobby for a while, and it just seems like some new brushless idea has popped up every so often for at least the last 10-15 years, during the various down times in my professional career that I've had to play around with R/C stuff during that time frame.

I ain't really panning on them, at all. Heck, I'd like to play with one sometime in the future myself. I just don't think they will totally wipe brushed motors off the scene anytime soon. Not even in the next 5-10 years.

What will be interesting to watch is how the tech does evolve once they are generally accepted by sanctioning bodies and are purchased and raced in numbers high enough to lower their price all the while raising interest in them. I think the ESCs that you mentioned Tom, ones that can operate both types, are a telling sign that this "coming of the brushless" is more serious than past attempts, indeed.

Anyway, sorry for sounding so harsh in one of my first posts here since signing up. Personally, I've been away since the touring car came along this time (my last R/C purchase was an original 1 belt HPI RS4) and am now looking to get into some oval action in the next year or so. I was never too keen on carpet, so it may be Spring when the outdoor ovals open back up before I can get back into the competition mix again. I'm thinking about doing a Legends deal to try and ease into going in circles. Think they'll open up *that* class to brushless motors? LOL! Me either. Not unless they can build one to SPEC spec...


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## Echeconnee (Nov 14, 1998)

I think brushless is going to be taken much more seriously this time around with the new technology and compatability with current R/C vehicles. LRP with their Brushed or Brushless ESC design has really accelerated brushless into the mainstream. Novak really did their homework on this one and I think we may see a dual purpose system from them in the near future. As it stands now both systems are completely interchangeable and compatible so if everyone else who plans on making this stuff stays on the same page I think the brushed motors will go the way of the dinosaur.


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## bojo (May 6, 2002)

can you run your brushless motors with any esc I have a quamtom 2 esc will it work?and some v7.1 an and lrp sr do you run with 4 cells or 6 cells and do gp3300 work with them.


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## hankster (Jan 1, 1998)

YOu need a special ESC to run a brushless motor. Novak is the most popular and has been on the market the longest. Reedy has just come out with thier own system.


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## rowdyrj (Jul 23, 2003)

Anywhere they can


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## Donnie_99 (Sep 25, 2001)

i think brushless is a good idea but so was nitro oval? i wont buy one until i cant run a brushed motor anymore.

Donnie


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## DynoMoHum (Sep 25, 2001)

I'm about 99% sure that brushless is here to stay...

I also belive they should be raced in their own class when ever possible, because there is no direct comparison between the a brushed motor of some perticular wind, and and any perticular brushed motor... 

The only exception is that I beleive in "MOD" class... you could make a very good argument that brushed and brushless should be allowed to compete head to head... and may the better motor win... This would quickly sort out the future... because the future would be which ever setup comes out on top... but then there will be calls to allow more exotic brushed motors compete in this class, because eventually the brushless motors will very likely start to dominate a open mod class I think... It may not be the case today, but I bleivie it's a matter of time.


In no way should brushed 'stock' motors be allowed to compete with burshless 'stock' motors at any sort of offical event. This is too much like apples and oranges trying to compete... Same goes for other fixed/restricted classes such as 19turn 'super stock', etc...


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## Trixter (Oct 8, 1998)

burbs said:


> HA HA HA HA TO FUNNY..... remember,, sanctioning bodies have to aprove batteries, and motors for them to be legal.. if they vote and are not aproved.. your so called forcasted take over wont happen... brushles motors willnot take over anything.. they are a phaze.. brushless technology has been around since the eighties... it still hasnt taken over.. i dont see it happening...
> 
> people tend to run what the pros run.. the hot stuff... i dont see any pro level brushless racing in the near future..


Please keep in mind that less than 1% of all R/C cars are raced in sanctioned events. I would also suspect that the number is a little higher for NON sanctioned tracks.


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