# Enterprise Refit Base Color



## Mccastro (Jan 14, 2016)

Hello all! I be been reading, and researching for wha seems like years and can't really find the answers I'm looking for. I'm currently working on the 1/350 PL Refit. I've primed the saucer and secondary hull with rustoleum's painter's touch flat gray primer. That, although a bit darker than I expected, turned out well. It is smooth and adheres well to the plastic. I will eventually be doing the Aztecs using the polytranspar iridescent paints. Question is...I'm ready to apply the base color to the ship, but I'm not sure what to use that will adhere well to the rustoleum's primer, and will also accept the polytranspar iridescent paints for the Aztecs. Should I use a semi-gloss white of the same brand as the primer? And, if so, will the polytranspar paints be okay over that? Then, what about the clear coat over all of that? Dang there's a lot to think about!


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## actias (May 19, 2003)

I have the same question!!!!!!!!


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## Mccastro (Jan 14, 2016)

I think I'll do some experimenting with the lower part of the secondary hull for the "A" version since I don't need it. It'll make a good test platform. I don't want to ruin 2 months of progress with a bad paint job.


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## Garbaron (Apr 23, 2004)

Whenever possible use a color of the same brand. Only use a different brand after thoroughly testing how it behaves on your primer / other colors. I mixed brands on my build when working on the secondary hull and the primary white did not work well with the primer and although everything looked fine after applying the paint, it cracked and messed up the surface after beginning to dry. Had to sand it all down and begin again. Nearly cancelled the project after that had happened. 

As for the clear coat. It should be a semi gloss to bring the ships overall sheen in to scale and to seal in the decals, but the clear coat will tone down the iridescent effect of the Aztec quite a bit. The colors won’t “sparkle” as much as they do without the clear coat and color intensity will be brought down too. The original model for TMP did not have a clear coat over the Aztec, by this preserving the dull / gloss effect between Aztec Colors and primary hull color (which was an automotive white primer) and all decals where custom sturdy rub-ons with the same sheen as the overall hull so they would not stand out. 

You can find my build here:
http://scifimodelaction.com/sfmaforum/index.php?topic=1421.0


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

The base color is Pearlescent white.


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## Garbaron (Apr 23, 2004)

Nope, Refit models base color is a plain white. AFAIK they used an automotiv primer white as the base color. The pearlescent idea came to be when ppl had no access to the iridescent colors Paul Olsen used and wanted to emulate the colorful look of the hull anyways. For some reason the idea of the base color being pearl white stuck.


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## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

and just to state the obvious: Be careful about interaction between Enamel, Lacquer and water-based paint. It would be a shame to put hours into masking only to find orange-peel or worse later...


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## seaQuest (Jan 12, 2003)

Also obvious...ILM hit the model with a dulling spray when they got it for Star Trek II. Trumbull used the frontlight/backlight technique, which was compatible with a gloss finish. ILM's bluescreen photography would've caused reflections on the model which would cause problems in the optical printer.


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## Garbaron (Apr 23, 2004)

That is correct the dull-spray was a milky white mixture that toned down the colors and reflections of the Aztec. When I build my Refit I used Christies 1701-A pictures and tried to imagine what the colors on the forward secondary hull and deflector housing (which mostly still bear the TMP paint job) would look like if you could remove a milky white layer from them. That is the reason for my more colorful colors.


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## Mccastro (Jan 14, 2016)

So...I guess the question no is...is the rustoleum primer I used an enamel? I assume it is. It doesn't say on the can though. I will just use the same brand for the white. Should be safe there. But, the polytranspar paint comes only in water based and lacquer. Should I get the water based type or the lacquer ones? Then, what would I use for the top clear coat?


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## Opus Penguin (Apr 19, 2004)

Most advice I have read is to use a satin-white primer color, or base color after it is primed. Not sure if that helps.


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## larskseme (Sep 2, 2014)

A few months ago, I tried a wee-fit as (yet another) warm up for tackling the 350. I just used Tamiya White Fine surface primer and sanded the stuffing out of it (using those square 3200, 3600, ... 12000 grit pads) until the surface was very shinny. I put the lacquer-based polytranspar on and the paint, I think, look fine. Covered with Future both before and after decalling. (Modelling skills, on the other hand...)

Here is what I got:





The build itself is far from perfect--I tore both the original "USS Enterprise" decal on the saucer top, plus another one I had from another failed build. Finally, I simply gave up and just re purposed a 2500 Enterprise C just so I could be done it with. Someday, I try again...


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## Mccastro (Jan 14, 2016)

So, i assume most people are using the polytranspar iridescent paints for the Aztecs...will the 1oz bottles be enough to finish the 1/350 model? I know you don't use much because it's a light coat.


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## barrydancer (Aug 28, 2009)

Mccastro said:


> So, i assume most people are using the polytranspar iridescent paints for the Aztecs...will the 1oz bottles be enough to finish the 1/350 model? I know you don't use much because it's a light coat.


I'd go with something bigger. I'm using the acrylics and you'll wind up using more than you think you will. I have Gold, Green, and Red in 8oz and Blue in 16oz.


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## gene1138 (Aug 25, 2011)

Mccastro said:


> So, i assume most people are using the polytranspar iridescent paints for the Aztecs...will the 1oz bottles be enough to finish the 1/350 model? I know you don't use much because it's a light coat.


I bought the 1 oz bottles of the lacquer paints. I had to get a 2nd bottle of blue and gold to finish the model as they are the most used colors. So their 4 oz bottles should be plenty.


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## Mccastro (Jan 14, 2016)

Thanks guys! Now I need to decide whether to go with the lacquer or the acrylic. My concern with the acrylics is that they will not adhere as well, and with the masking and remasking involved with the Aztec procedure, I'm afraid they'll come up. I'd like to use them however because of the simplicity of the cleanup and the absence of harsh chemicals. Also, I've only airbrushed with acrylics. I've never used solvent-based paints in an airbrush. However, if that will give me better results...ill go with the lacquer based polytranspar paints. Maybe I should get a 1oz bottle of each in one of the colors and experiment.


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## barrydancer (Aug 28, 2009)

Mccastro said:


> Thanks guys! Now I need to decide whether to go with the lacquer or the acrylic. My concern with the acrylics is that they will not adhere as well, and with the masking and remasking involved with the Aztec procedure, I'm afraid they'll come up. I'd like to use them however because of the simplicity of the cleanup and the absence of harsh chemicals. Also, I've only airbrushed with acrylics. I've never used solvent-based paints in an airbrush. However, if that will give me better results...ill go with the lacquer based polytranspar paints. Maybe I should get a 1oz bottle of each in one of the colors and experiment.


That's what the secondary hull bottom for the Ent-A is for: Experimenting!

My experience with the acrylics is that they CAN have a hard time adhering. The blue has been the worst culprit for me. There's probably a user error factor to throw in though. I get the best results if I do an alcohol wipe on the areas before painting, and then let the paint cure for a couple of days. If you need to mask over it after that, make sure you take some of the tack off the tape before covering up the paint. If it does come up, I've never really been able to get the repair to match the first round of paint.

You can find my experiences with the acrylics in my Refit thread:
http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=279927&highlight=


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## gene1138 (Aug 25, 2011)

The lacquer paints will give you the best results. They lay down very smooth and dry very quickly. The quick drying helps moving through the different aztec patterns quickly. I was able to spray a color, clean out the airbush, go over very lightly with the heat gun, then remask. I'd say 10, 15 minutes between finishing spraying and remasking. I wouldn't do this with acrylics.

But the lacquer chemicals are definitely a drawback. Cannot do it indoors unless you have a good spray booth that vents outdoors and a respirator is a must in any regard. 

With the lacquer paints I recommend getting their thinner as well. While you can spray right from the bottle, I got a grainy appearance in the iridescents. A little thinning smoothed the appearance.


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## rmpitzer (Mar 11, 2016)

Garbaron said:


> As for the clear coat. It should be a semi gloss to bring the ships overall sheen in to scale and to seal in the decals, but the clear coat will tone down the iridescent effect of the Aztec quite a bit. The colors won’t “sparkle” as much as they do without the clear coat and color intensity will be brought down too. The original model for TMP did not have a clear coat over the Aztec, by this preserving the dull / gloss effect between Aztec Colors and primary hull color (which was an automotive white primer) and all decals where custom sturdy rub-ons with the same sheen as the overall hull so they would not stand out.


I'm curious what would happen if the decals were applied on the white basecoat, then clear coat, then paint the azteks with no final clear coat. Would the iridescent paint be THAT noticeable over the decals?

-Rich


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## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

rmpitzer said:


> I'm curious what would happen if the decals were applied on the white basecoat, then clear coat, then paint the azteks with no final clear coat. Would the iridescent paint be THAT noticeable over the decals?
> 
> -Rich


If the white basecoat isn't a full gloss, you'll likely get silvering on the decals. Microset or some other decal setting solution might help but what I learned long long ago is that no matter what the final finish might be, you need to apply decals on gloss surface, even if it's a clear coat. 

You can try it but visually, you're creating a totally different look. on a 'real' ship those markings go on last, and so cover whatever the underlying color is. I suspect it WOULD be noticeable.


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## rmpitzer (Mar 11, 2016)

I guess my thought process was......white base....gloss clear.....decals.....dulling clear....then azteks. But, I bet you are right, and it probably would be noticeable on the decals. I just hate the thought of reducing the iridescent sheen with a final clear coat after doing all that work.


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## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

rmpitzer said:


> I guess my thought process was......white base....gloss clear.....decals.....dulling clear....then azteks. But, I bet you are right, and it probably would be noticeable on the decals. I just hate the thought of reducing the iridescent sheen with a final clear coat after doing all that work.


Well, maybe this wouldn't work but:

a. Apply the azteking ONLY where decals go, decal, coat, then apply all the other aztek

b. get some onionskin or other thin paper, cut it around the decals to make stencils, coat JUST the decal areas after applying them on top of the aztek

Both of these ideas would be hugely finicky and time consuming, but I think they would work to get the final effect you want.


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## rmpitzer (Mar 11, 2016)

Oh, I like that idea! I may try it on the 1/537 I am building along side the bigger one....sort of my paint test model. 

Thanks!
-Rich


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## robn1 (Nov 17, 2012)

rmpitzer said:


> I guess my thought process was......white base....gloss clear.....decals.....dulling clear....then azteks. But, I bet you are right, and it probably would be noticeable on the decals. I just hate the thought of reducing the iridescent sheen with a final clear coat after doing all that work.


I had the thought of this as well, but I would try to keep clear coats to a minimum. Start with gloss white base coat, apply decals, matte or satin clear, then aztecs. You'll have to mask over the decals wherever an aztec needs to overlap. It would be tedious but doable. Some areas where the decals are complex or small could be azteced first, the dull clear wouldn't be as noticeable in those few tight areas. 

PRACTICE FIRST.


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## Cappy1 (Jan 17, 2011)

Rich:

You could try A4 label paper, full sheet. Scan your decals, print on to this paper, then cut out and apply to areas to cover. Aztec away. Should be sufficiently low tack enough to not pull off your decals after the top coat of clear has set.


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

For those with a scanner and software like Adobe Illustrator, custom dry transfers might be the way to go. Not cheap, but this kit's a bit of an expensive date anyway ...

http://customrubontransfers.com/product/black-satin-single-color-notone-transfer/


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## Mccastro (Jan 14, 2016)

I had the same thought. It sounds like the colors in the iridescent paints are significantly dulled after clear coating. I wonder if I could use my electronic cutter for this. You'd really just need to do the larger decals. The small ones could be put on later or carefully painted around during the Aztec painting. I could easily scan the decals directly into the electronic cutter software and then have the cutter cut around the exact perimeter of the decals. This brings up another question...I'm trying to find a place where I can buy Oramask 810 masking vinyl. Bits the same stuff orbital drydock uses for their mask sets. I can only find it in large 50 yard rolls. Does anyone know of a place I can get this masking film in smaller quantities?


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

Mccastro said:


> I'm trying to find a place where I can buy Oramask 810 masking vinyl. Bits the same stuff orbital drydock uses for their mask sets. I can only find it in large 50 yard rolls. Does anyone know of a place I can get this masking film in smaller quantities?


Would a sign-cutting shop that uses the stuff sell you some sheets or offcuts?


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## Mccastro (Jan 14, 2016)

Never thought about checking for scraps from places that might use these masks. They're often used in the automotive industry for making custom masks for cars. I'll have to look into that. Otherwise, it's $75 for 50 yards! Not a bad price if I were doing a lot of masks, but I'd never use all of that up before it went bad.


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## John1818 (Mar 28, 2016)

Just call up your local sign shop that carries the 810 and ask if they'll sell you a "sample" swatch of a few yards. Most of the time they'll do that because people like to test materials before they buy an entire roll. Worth a shot anyway, IMHO.


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## Mccastro (Jan 14, 2016)

Good news! I found an online retailer who will sell me 12"x12" sheets for $0.70 each! Score!!! These will come in quite handy during the painting process. The will also be useful for other builds. I'm going to try making masks for the decals. It's a great idea to paint the gloss white base...apply decals...clear coat...mask decals...spray Aztecs. That way the Aztecs will not be affected by the clear.


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## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

Mccastro said:


> Good news! I found an online retailer who will sell me 12"x12" sheets for $0.70 each! Score!!! These will come in quite handy during the painting process. The will also be useful for other builds. I'm going to try making masks for the decals. It's a great idea to paint the gloss white base...apply decals...clear coat...mask decals...spray Aztecs. That way the Aztecs will not be affected by the clear.


It sounds like a plan and I hope it works out! Good luck!


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

Mccastro said:


> Good news! I found an online retailer who will sell me 12"x12" sheets for $0.70 each! Score!!! These will come in quite handy during the painting process. The will also be useful for other builds. I'm going to try making masks for the decals. It's a great idea to paint the gloss white base...apply decals...clear coat...mask decals...spray Aztecs. That way the Aztecs will not be affected by the clear.


Great! :thumbsup: How will you handle the smaller, finer decals?


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## rmpitzer (Mar 11, 2016)

I bought some Oramask 810 from an online vendor....$4.50 for 12"x6' rolls. I've used it on a vinyl cutter and it works great. If anyone wants to know where I got it from, just PM me.

-Rich


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## Mccastro (Jan 14, 2016)

Just sprayed the lower part of the extra secondary hull with rustoleum's semi-gloss white. It was sprayed over the rustoleum's flat gray primer. The color looks good, but the texture is not as smooth as I'd like. I believe the nozzle on these rattle cans does not atomize the paint fine enough to lay down a smooth coat. If I were to go with more layers, or a heavier coat the paint would likely be smoother...but, I'd lose too much detail. Some have mentioned using an HVLP spray gun. I have one, but where do you get the enamel paint to spray through the gun? There's no doubt it would give me a smoother finish.


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## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

Or do what the auto builders and such do, sand, sand sand. Get out that 2000 grit stuff and just work it, man, work it.


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## dcarty (Nov 26, 2012)

That's what they had to do on the studio model. They hit with some terrible, grainy, white automotive primer and spent hours sanding it down. (Though a smoother primer coat would obviously be an easier starting point)


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## robn1 (Nov 17, 2012)

I'd use Tamiya gloss white, it goes on smooth and won't soften the details.


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## escape068 (Jan 26, 2016)

I have been contemplating the 2 tone contrasting sheen effect with the base coat and Aztec's but think it would be really difficult to pull off unless all of the decals are painted on except for the really small ones so no clear coat would be needed. I have been following Boyd at Trekworks and his build of the 1/350 refit and he has clear coated over the Aztecs and decals and the effect is quite stunning. The Aztecs really shine and the rest ship even though has the same clear coat but since it's white it doesn't seem to shine as much as the Aztecs

Here is the YouTube link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0MdsgraQ0I

Start around 5:39 on Part 17 and he compares the finished lower saucer section with upper section that he is starting to Aztec. Also look at the other videos of this build regarding the Aztec painting


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## wmseith (May 23, 2019)

Hi everyone. I also am working on this model but for not airbrush and am not planning on doing the Aztec method. Could anyone point me in the direction of a good guide for painting that is not Aztec? The guide that comes with it is horrible. Thank you for reading and have a great day.


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