# TOS Enterprise 1/350th Build - Daniel Broadway



## PixelMagic (Aug 25, 2004)

Hey guys. I'm doing a build of the TOS Enterprise as accurate to the TV show as I can. That being said, the first part of my build involves filling the gridlines with Perfect Plastic Putty.

Word of advice! DO NOT WET SAND. Even after the putty is fully dry, it will slowly dissolve if you wet-sand. Get some good durable sand paper (not Testors) and dry sand.

Here is the top saucer fully puttied. I will be re-sanding tomorrow. This I'll hit it will some Tamiya white primer.


----------



## Landru (May 25, 2009)

I'll also be filling mine, good work so far! You think any of the lines will show through the paint to aid for decal placement??


----------



## Proper2 (Dec 8, 2010)

That's a lot o' toothpaste!


----------



## RossW (Jan 12, 2000)

You can sand PPP with wet sandpaper, but not soaking wet. I got good results by dipping my sandpaper in water, then squeezing it on a towel to remove excess water, then sanding.


----------



## J_Indy (Jan 28, 2013)

Landru said:


> I'll also be filling mine, good work so far! You think any of the lines will show through the paint to aid for decal placement??


The engraved gridlines was R2's nonsensical answer to "What if the junior modelers want gridlines?"

Rather, they could have just provided a sheet of paper with a model-scale print of the saucer to use as a guide.

If you haven't made a tracing-paper guide before filling in the grid, you can:

1) Save the attached image.
2) Through a little trial-and-error, print it to a size that matches the same size when overlaid on the model's saucer (remember, the saucer curves).
3) Punch pinholes in the paper at the grid intersection points, then overlay it on the saucer top so the landmarks align and use a pencil through the holes to make guide points. Erase the pencil afterward.

You can get images from LCARS.


----------



## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

Like them or not the Round 2 approach is no different than how any company deals with surface detailing on stuff like planes and ships. You buy a model plane today and its covered wtih engraved lines and sunken dot rivets. Yet real planes are usually flush skinned, or have overlapping panels, and if anything rivets are raised. Thats just how kit companies do things. If Round 2 made them raised, some people would complain about that. And if they left them off, others would complain about not having them.


----------



## J_Indy (Jan 28, 2013)

djnick66 said:


> Like them or not the Round 2 approach is no different than how any company deals with surface detailing on stuff like planes and ships. You buy a model plane today and its covered wtih engraved lines and sunken dot rivets. Yet real planes are usually flush skinned, or have overlapping panels, and if anything rivets are raised. Thats just how kit companies do things. If Round 2 made them raised, some people would complain about that. And if they left them off, others would complain about not having them.


Maybe.

But it is odd that they chose the WORST way to add them.

Include a stencil - draw them on if you like. Easy.

Slightly (hairline) raised - sand them off.

INDENTED - find something good to fill them (the search is well-documented in other threads) AND THEN sand it down.

The WORST option - so it figures they chose it...


----------



## jgoldsack (Apr 26, 2004)

J_Indy said:


> Maybe.
> 
> But it is odd that they chose the WORST way to add them.
> 
> ...


Filling is easy. Engraved is much more plausible than raised, I actually have a harder time removing raised details than I do filling in engraved. It is really a matter of preference.

If they are raised, and someone actually wanted them engraved, it is even harder. I don't know of anyone who wants raised grid lines. This way, it is win win, because those who want engraved have them, and those who want smooth are able to fill them in and get smooth.


----------



## harristotle (Aug 7, 2008)

jgoldsack said:


> Filling is easy. Engraved is much more plausible than raised, I actually have a harder time removing raised details than I do filling in engraved. It is really a matter of preference.
> 
> If they are raised, and someone actually wanted them engraved, it is even harder. I don't know of anyone who wants raised grid lines. This way, it is win win, because those who want engraved have them, and those who want smooth are able to fill them in and get smooth.


Have to agree with you on that.


----------



## J_Indy (Jan 28, 2013)

jgoldsack said:


> Filling is easy. Engraved is much more plausible than raised, I actually have a harder time removing raised details than I do filling in engraved. It is really a matter of preference.
> 
> If they are raised, and someone actually wanted them engraved, it is even harder. I don't know of anyone who wants raised grid lines. This way, it is win win, because those who want engraved have them, and those who want smooth are able to fill them in and get smooth.


Except that the original had neither raised nor engraved - yet they chose engraved.

IMO raised is easier to get rid of - who doesn't already have sandpaper?

The smartest way IMO would have been decals. The refit has all those [email protected] aztec decals - why not have the grids that way again?

And what about the big weathering decals? Why would it be beyond a modeller to put on grid decals, yet be capable of putting on those large weathering decals?

It is illogical.


----------



## harristotle (Aug 7, 2008)

J_Indy said:


> The smartest way IMO would have been decals. The refit has all those [email protected] aztec decals - why not have the grids that way again?
> 
> It is illogical.


This right here would have been the best option.


----------



## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

Dead horse walking!


----------



## J_Indy (Jan 28, 2013)

Sometimes you've got to keep beating the dead horse publicly because there is always a "next time" when the chance to make a dumb manufacturing decision arises again....


----------



## RossW (Jan 12, 2000)

It wasn't a dumb manufacturing idea, it was specifically designed that way - logically, the pencil lines on the original were meant to convey recessed lines, much like the designers of the Refit ultimately did with that model. R2's approach makes eminent sense whether you agree with it or not. If anything, the only problem with the model is that they couldn't get them as fine as they wanted, but not for lack of trying. A number of modellers (including myself) have had very little problems with filling them, and others have left them be and ended up with beautiful models. Each to their own. But let's please leave this topic alone - it's been 9 months now.


----------



## J_Indy (Jan 28, 2013)

RossW said:


> It wasn't a dumb manufacturing idea, it was specifically designed that way - logically, the pencil lines on the original were meant to convey recessed lines, much like the designers of the Refit ultimately did with that model. R2's approach makes eminent sense whether you agree with it or not. If anything, the only problem with the model is that they couldn't get them as fine as they wanted, but not for lack of trying. A number of modellers (including myself) have had very little problems with filling them, and others have left them be and ended up with beautiful models. Each to their own. But let's please leave this topic alone - it's been 9 months now.


As you say - to each their own.

But the lines didn't necessarily have to be recessed. They could have just represented joins between plates that are flush - in the same way the aztecs on the refit suggest smaller plates side-by-side.

Oddly enough, the original AMT model makers took the opposite track and molded them as raised - so I guess it was open to interpretation.

But, enough. It seems that every manufacturer of a TOS model has to have something distinguishing that identifies it as their own production. Chalk up the lines to R2'S. :tongue:


----------



## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

J_Indy said:


> Sometimes you've got to keep beating the dead horse publicly because there is always a "next time" when the chance to make a dumb manufacturing decision arises again....


... and the rest of us have to suffer. It's Daniel's thread. Let it be Daniel's thread?


----------



## spock62 (Aug 13, 2003)

J_Indy said:


> As you say - to each their own.
> 
> But the lines didn't necessarily have to be recessed. They could have just represented joins between plates that are flush - in the same way the aztecs on the refit suggest smaller plates side-by-side.
> 
> ...


Weren't most kits made in the 60's using raised lines for representing panel lines/hatch outlines/etc.? Maybe that's why AMT chose that route.

Also, based on what Jamie and Gary have posted in this and other forums, their concern was to produce the most accurate kit of the Enterprise ever made. I highly doubt that R2 chose engraved deflector grid lines just to distinguish their kit. Personally, I would do what Daniel is doing, since I prefer the ship without the lines. But, I see nothing wrong with R2's decision to engrave the lines.

Anyway, concerning Daniel's build, I'm looking forward to seeing the end result and I'm curious to see how the PPP works out, since I just bought the stuff myself.


----------



## RossW (Jan 12, 2000)

Daniel - not trying to hijack your thread but to give you an idea of what all that filling/sanding can yield:


----------



## J_Indy (Jan 28, 2013)

SteveR said:


> It's Daniel's thread. Let it be Daniel's thread?


Quite correct. Apologies for the distraction.

I made a suggestion about positioning decals without gridlines. Anyone else have a better one?


----------



## KUROK (Feb 2, 2004)

The stated the goal on the lines was to be same size as those on a 1:48 tamigawa airplane kit. This is from Jamie. They did get close to that on the top of the saucer however on the bottom...not so much...


----------



## kdaracal (Jan 24, 2009)

PixelMagic said:


> Hey guys. I'm doing a build of the TOS Enterprise as accurate to the TV show as I can. That being said, the first part of my build involves filling the gridlines with Perfect Plastic Putty.
> 
> Word of advice! DO NOT WET SAND. Even after the putty is fully dry, it will slowly dissolve if you wet-sand. Get some good durable sand paper (not Testors) and dry sand.
> 
> Here is the top saucer fully puttied. I will be re-sanding tomorrow. This I'll hit it will some Tamiya white primer.


My hat's off to you. Takes a lot of gumption to do that. Good luck, sir!!


----------



## PixelMagic (Aug 25, 2004)

RossW said:


> Daniel - not trying to hijack your thread but to give you an idea of what all that filling/sanding can yield:


Awesome. That is my goal as I build. I was busy working on a software project over the weekend, but I hope to get my saucer looking like this soon.


----------



## spock62 (Aug 13, 2003)

RossW said:


> Daniel - not trying to hijack your thread but to give you an idea of what all that filling/sanding can yield:


That came out perfect, what putty did you use?


----------



## RossW (Jan 12, 2000)

spock62 said:


> That came out perfect, what putty did you use?


For the top, just some artist's acrylic modelling paste (very similar to Perfect Plastic Putty) after I learned my lesson with the bottom (I originally only wanted to fill the bottom and sides, hoping that primer coats would fill in the top enough to my liking. It didn't). On the bottom, I tried automotive filler first but that yielded an utter mess: the slurry actually melted the plastic between the windows so there was a lot of filing/scribing/cursing. Came out alright in the end, though:


----------



## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

Wow! You really went whole hog on the PPP didn't you? I second what you said about using regular sanpaper rather than Testors to knock it down. After my second go at puttying the gridlines on my build I used 150 and 200 grit sandpaper and it really took that PPP down quick, much faster than the Testors sanding films were doing. Once I got down to where I could see the filled lines though I switched to Testors 600 grit for the final touches before priming. You'll find that the lines will still be barely visible even after applying primer and basecoat which was a BIG help for me when I drew the gridlines back on with pencil. You'd need to view the surface in bright light from a low angle to see them though. Looking at the hull straight on in normal room light they don't show up. I found this out by accident when I was examining the saucer halves for surface imperfections in bright sunlight after I'd primed and basecoated her.


----------



## PixelMagic (Aug 25, 2004)

Trekkriffic said:


> Wow! You really went whole hog on the PPP didn't you?


Well, much like you, I tried to to a light touch of it at first, and that didn't do anything to get rid of the lines. I made sure to use plenty this time, because I'll be damned if I am going to do that again! That was tedious.


----------



## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

RossW said:


> For the top, just some artist's acrylic modelling paste ...


Ross, did you use that stuff from Woolfitt's? What was the name of it again?

By the way, Daniel, thanks for sharing your build. I look forward to seeing your progress!


----------



## RossW (Jan 12, 2000)

Woolfits is turning into a Curry's, so not sure if they still have it:


----------



## PixelMagic (Aug 25, 2004)

Ugh, been sanding and sanding and sanding this afternoon. I will say this. If you plan on filling in the gridlines, it's a big commitment! Don't do it unless you are ready to spend a lot of time on just the saucers.

Perfect Plastic Putty is hard stuff to sand when you are drysanding. This is my first pass after 150 grit sandpaper. I'll probably do a bit more work with 150 sanding before I move onto 220,400, then 600. Then I'm gonna hit it with Mr. Surfacer.


----------



## RossW (Jan 12, 2000)

It would go faster if you wet your sandpaper and removed the excess water. That's how I sanded mine.


----------



## boneman67 (Jul 15, 2013)

I knew you were in for a long haul when I saw how tall you had the putty....... :0


----------



## scifiguy67 (Jan 18, 2011)

PixelMagic said:


> Ugh, been sanding and sanding and sanding this afternoon. I will say this. If you plan on filling in the gridlines, it's a big commitment! Don't do it unless you are ready to spend a lot of time on just the saucers.
> 
> Perfect Plastic Putty is hard stuff to sand when you are drysanding. This is my first pass after 150 grit sandpaper. I'll probably do a bit more work with 150 sanding before I move onto 220,400, then 600. Then I'm gonna hit it with Mr. Surfacer.


 agreed!!!! i filled the grid lines on my! 1st & 2nd versions. I am NOT filling them for my production version ...besides it will help show the differences between the ships when I put them side by side.


----------



## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

All the effort you are putting in now will be worth it. I really like the smooth look. Do you plan on penciling in the grid lines later?


----------



## PixelMagic (Aug 25, 2004)

Trekkriffic said:


> All the effort you are putting in now will be worth it. I really like the smooth look. Do you plan on penciling in the grid lines later?



I am considering it, yes. However, I'm not sure how I can do so successfully after having covered these up with primer/paint. Not sure what to use as reference to draw them back in.


----------



## ClubTepes (Jul 31, 2002)

J_Indy said:


> Except that the original had neither raised nor engraved - yet they chose engraved.
> 
> IMO raised is easier to get rid of - who doesn't already have sandpaper?
> 
> ...


I can't believe that the grid line debate is popping up again.

The 1/350 TOS Enterprise is an 'idealized' model of the Enterprise.
It IS NOT a model of the 'model' of the Enterprise.
Also, there are as far as I know, three different 'on screen' models of the Enterprise and two CG models used to 'officially' depict the Enterprise on screen.

If the 1/350 were a true copy of the 11 footer, you'd have to omit a ton of details like windows and the one nacelle trench from the left side. Some windows would have to be black painted rectangles as so forth.

To cherry pick the things you like from the 11 footer and discard what you don't can be hypocritical. 
It doesn't matter if the 11 footer has engraved lines or not, as the 1/350 is not a copy of that miniature.
It has all the same proportions as the 11 footer.
I think everyone should be thankful that it is not based on the 3 footer, as its about the same size as the kit, and it could have been a 'studio scale' kit of the 3 footer.
Being an 'idealized' model of the Enterprise, means that you have to treat the ship as a 'real' thing that fits into the context of the Trek universe.
The NX-01 has Grid lines.
The Refit has Grid lines.
The 'B' has Grid lines.
The 'C' has Grid lines.
And the 'D' has Grid lines.

Two things are most important here.
The fact that Roddenberry put Grid lines on the Refit, as at that point he still had a lot of input into Trek and had the opportunity to set the 'look' of the ship.
Which included grid lines.
And secondly, when Greg Jein made the 1/2 scale TOS Enterprise for DS-9's 'Trials and Tribbulations' he put Grid Lines on it.

So, there is a TON of precedent to put Grid Lines on the 1/350 kit.

Just because a person doesn't like them, is a personal preference an not a mistake of the kit.

As for the debate of raised or engraved lines, that simply isn't up for debate, as the detail on every other ship is an ENGRAVED line.

So there is no illogic at all, but rather a very thought out reasoning behind them.


----------



## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

PixelMagic said:


> I am considering it, yes. However, I'm not sure how I can do so successfully after having covered these up with primer/paint. Not sure what to use as reference to draw them back in.


If your experience parallels mine, and it should, you should be able to just barely make them out even after priming and one coat of paint. The trick is to look at the surface from a very low angle with a bright light source shining on the hull. In my case, I had the saucer on a table in my garage with sunlight shining on it from the open garage door. When I placed by head sideways down low, almost touching the table, and looked across the saucer the gridlines were visible enough for me to use them as a reference for drawing the pencil lines. I'm not sure exactly why this is because the lines are darker than the hull not lighter as you would expect from the white putty. It may be that the putty soaks up more of the primer than the surrounding plastic rendering it a shade or two darker, just enough to show thru the hull colored paint. Or it could be that the puttied lines are less reflective than the hull plastic which would explain why you need a bright line for them to be visible. 

By the way, if you decide to draw the lines on, you might want to get one of these for drawing on the circular lines:


Harbor Freight 6 inch Compass by trekriffic, on Flickr

I got mine for under 10 bucks at Harbor Freight. One nice thing about this tool is you can slide the pencil down the arm further for making larger diameter circles.


----------



## PixelMagic (Aug 25, 2004)

ClubTepes said:


> So, there is a TON of precedent to put Grid Lines on the 1/350 kit.
> 
> Just because a person doesn't like them, is a personal preference an not a mistake of the kit.
> 
> As for the debate of raised or engraved lines, that simply isn't up for debate, as the detail on every other ship is an ENGRAVED line.


I have elected to remove the lines from my ship, but I completely agree with you. I simply want my Enterprise to look as it did on television in the 60s, or the remastered episodes, both of which do not have engraved lines. The remastered CG model has no gridlines, but does have aztecish paneling. The 11footer had a smooth surface with penciled grids.

However, I am completely fine with anyone who wants gridlines on their Enterprise, as you said, a case can be made that all other starships have them, so the TOS Enterprise should as well.

Like you said, personal preference, and either one is fine to me. Grids, no grids, whatever someone wants to do with their model is awesome. If everyone's model turned out the same, it would be no fun. Variety is awesome!


Trekkriffic, good info, thanks. As was pointed out, I look at this model as a miniature of the Enterprise, not a miniature of a miniature. So I may not do penciled grids at all, I'm undecided. I may go with the aztecish (very very subtle) look of the remastered Enterprise.


----------



## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

ClubTepes said:


> I can't believe that the grid line debate is popping up again.


It popped up, then it went away quite gracefully, I might add.

Nothing to see here, folks ...


----------



## PixelMagic (Aug 25, 2004)

SteveR said:


> It popped up, then it went away quite gracefully, I might add.
> 
> Nothing to see here, folks ...



Agreed. There shouldn't even be a discussion on it. Especially not my thread, please.  Take it to the gridline thread.


----------



## jgoldsack (Apr 26, 2004)

The answer is 42. 

That is all.


----------



## PixelMagic (Aug 25, 2004)

PHEW! Done with the upper saucer first pass of sanding. Just gotta go over it with finer grits to get it ready for Mr. Surfacer. Hopefully I will get to that tonight or perhaps tomorrow. 

I think I have put in a good 5 hours of sanding since I did it all dry sanding. You can see from the head on, low angle, it's smooth as can be. I can't wait to see it with primer!


----------



## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

Sweet sanding!


----------



## Fozzie (May 25, 2009)

Looks very good. All your effort has paid off.


----------



## Sparky (Feb 21, 2004)

PixelMagic said:


> PHEW! Done with the upper saucer first pass of sanding. Just gotta go over it with finer grits to get it ready for Mr. Surfacer. Hopefully I will get to that tonight or perhaps tomorrow.
> 
> I think I have put in a good 5 hours of sanding since I did it all dry sanding. You can see from the head on, low angle, it's smooth as can be. I can't wait to see it with primer!


Your build is looking great. I know exactly how labor intensive it is filling these grids. I filled mine twice with the PPP and I just now came in the house after finishing the last of the rough sanding (done, yeah!). As you say hours and hours of effort. Although I keep trying to tell myself that any of my future builds will have the grids left in, truth be told I think I will do it again. 

Although both filling and sanding is tedious with these huge honkin' saucers, I totally agree the ClubTepes position that it was reasonable for Round 2 to include them. And really this kit is so well designed and goes together so well that the grid fill effort really seems like a minor detour in all honesty.


----------



## crowe-t (Jul 30, 2010)

PixelMagic, You're doing a terrific job making the saucer smooth. It's a lot of work, for sure, but well worth the effort. I'm sure either a penciled on grid or aztecs will look great!

No matter what opinion anyone has this is your kit and you are doing a great job.


----------



## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

Great job on filling those grid lines.

Regardless of whether someone would want to keep the grid lines or not, I think it is a good idea to sand away the pebbly texture on the saucer and make the surface as smooth as possible.


----------



## Proper2 (Dec 8, 2010)

Trek Ace said:


> Great job on filling those grid lines.
> 
> Regardless of whether someone would want to keep the grid lines or not, I think it is a good idea to sand away the pebbly texture on the saucer and make the surface as smooth as possible.



Yeah, I wonder why it has that rough texture to begin with...


----------



## Sparky (Feb 21, 2004)

Proper2 said:


> Yeah, I wonder why it has that rough texture to begin with...


I seem to recall that the pebbly surface was related to the molding of the grid lines into the model, a side effect I guess.


----------



## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

I wonder if attaching the part to a sanding disk or lathe chuck would be a good idea for future sanding efforts ...? Rotate the part, that is.


----------



## PixelMagic (Aug 25, 2004)

SteveR said:


> I wonder if attaching the part to a sanding disk or lathe chuck would be a good idea for future sanding efforts ...? Rotate the part, that is.


I used a Dremel with a sanding head to get most of the putty back down to a sandable level by hand. However, I did nick the surface a couple of times by accident, so I'm having to putty those today. Then sand those. Ugh. Heh.


----------



## PixelMagic (Aug 25, 2004)

First coat of primer.


----------



## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

PixelMagic said:


> First coat of primer.


Smooth! :thumbsup:


----------



## Fozzie (May 25, 2009)

Very impressive!


----------



## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

Smooth as a Vulcan baby's behind!


----------



## PixelMagic (Aug 25, 2004)

Trekkriffic said:


> Smooth as a Vulcan baby's behind!


Not exactly. Despite using 2 passes of PPP and only drysanding, the grids are still barely visible at close viewing. My hope is to spray enough primer layers that it fills in the grids the rest of the way. If you get about a 2ft away, you can't see the grids anymore.

Would Mr. Surfacer 500 or 1000 fill it in the rest of the way?


----------



## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

PixelMagic said:


> Not exactly. Despite using 2 passes of PPP and only drysanding, the grids are still barely visible at close viewing. My hope is to spray enough primer layers that it fills in the grids the rest of the way. If you get about a 2ft away, you can't see the grids anymore.
> 
> Would Mr. Surfacer 500 or 1000 fill it in the rest of the way?


Mr Surfacer might work.Personally, if you can't see from 2 feet away, I'd be happy with that but it's up to you.


----------



## PixelMagic (Aug 25, 2004)

Trekkriffic said:


> Personally, if you can't see from 2 feet away, I'd be happy with that but it's up to you.


I'm pretty obsessed with perfection, I don't want to be able to see it from 2 inches away.


----------



## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

PixelMagic said:


> I'm pretty obsessed with perfection, I don't want to be able to see it from 2 inches away.


In that case I recommend Duplicolor High Build Filler Primer:


Duplicolor High Build Primer by trekriffic, on Flickr

It's what I used to get my gridlines covered.


----------



## PixelMagic (Aug 25, 2004)

Trekkriffic said:


> In that case I recommend Duplicolor High Build Filler Primer:
> 
> 
> Duplicolor High Build Primer by trekriffic, on Flickr
> ...


Interesting. Did you notice any orange peal, or grainy texture, or was it smooth? Did it require sanding afterward?


----------



## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

PixelMagic said:


> Interesting. Did you notice any orange peal, or grainy texture, or was it smooth? Did it require sanding afterward?


No orange peel and it is very sandable. Goes on very smooth. It's lacquer based so dries quick too. It's perfect for filling in scratches, or, in this case, gridlines. Runs about 9 bucks for a 12 oz can at O'Reilly Auto Parts. You can get it for less on the web but you'd have to add shipping too.


----------



## PixelMagic (Aug 25, 2004)

Trekkriffic said:


> No orange peel and it is very sandable. Goes on very smooth. It's lacquer based so dries quick too. It's perfect for filling in scratches, or, in this case, gridlines. Runs about 9 bucks for a 12 oz can at O'Reilly Auto Parts. You can get it for less on the web but you'd have to add shipping too.


Excellent advice. Thank you.


----------



## Sparky (Feb 21, 2004)

PixelMagic said:


> Excellent advice. Thank you.


I picked up a can at my Advance Auto for $5.27 a few weeks ago. If you have a local Advance Auto, order on their web site and select to pick up at the store. Use code P20 to save 20% on your total online order.


----------



## PixelMagic (Aug 25, 2004)

Sparky said:


> I picked up a can at my Advance Auto for $5.27 a few weeks ago. If you have a local Advance Auto, order on their web site and select to pick up at the store. Use code P20 to save 20% on your total online order.


This would have been helpful advice yesterday. Heh.


----------



## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

PixelMagic said:


> This would have been helpful advice yesterday. Heh.


Nice price but there are no Advance Auto stores within 100 miles of me.


----------



## Sparky (Feb 21, 2004)

Bummer gents. Well, maybe useful for other members buying automotive paint for their build (assuming that you have a local Advance Auto of course).


----------



## PixelMagic (Aug 25, 2004)

Finally got rid of all the gridlines on the upper saucer with the Dupli-color Filler Primer. However, while applying MANY coats, I worked on the shuttlecraft. Here is the progress so far.


----------



## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

That's small.....


----------



## harristotle (Aug 7, 2008)

Love the tiny stuff like this. Needs lights inside


----------



## PixelMagic (Aug 25, 2004)

harristotle said:


> Needs lights inside


Let's not get crazy.


----------



## PixelMagic (Aug 25, 2004)

Got the lower saucer gridlines mostly filled in and sanded. A bit more work to do, but it's almost there.


----------



## RossW (Jan 12, 2000)

Lookin' good! My first attempt at filling in the grid lines with Bondo slurry resulted in filling in the 3 concentric circles in some areas, so I had to re-scribe them. And fix the windows which also got filled in. Looks like your work is going much more smoothly.


----------



## PixelMagic (Aug 25, 2004)

This bad boy arrived in the mail this afternoon. So excited!


----------



## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

PixelMagic said:


> This bad boy arrived in the mail this afternoon. So excited!


Oh yeah. You're in for some fun now!


----------



## PixelMagic (Aug 25, 2004)

Minor update. Bottom saucer has it's first coat of primer. Unfortunately, the gridlines are still very visible here and there, but covered in other places. I'll have to do a lot of touch up work to get them all gone. Then I'll do the last little bit with high build primer to fill in the small imperfections. The top saucer is fully filled and primed, ready for the paint coats.


----------



## spocks beard (Mar 21, 2007)

Beautiful work!:thumbsup::thumbsup:


----------



## Mark2000 (Oct 13, 2013)

Top definitely looks nice and smooth. Anyone know why they decided to put that milk jug texture on the primary hull?


----------



## PixelMagic (Aug 25, 2004)

Mark2000 said:


> Anyone know why they decided to put that milk jug texture on the primary hull?


I think for some reason they needed to so that they could get the gridlines so thin. As much sanding as I've done, that texture is gone anyway. My saucers are very smooth.


----------



## RossW (Jan 12, 2000)

Lookin' good! I was amazed at how much I like my model better once I'd filled in the gridlines. My mistake, though, was to glue on the B/C deck piece which ideally you would do after painting and decalling so you can draw the radial lines back on the top surface (which I want to do; maybe you don't).


----------



## PixelMagic (Aug 25, 2004)

Another small update. These darn gridlines are holding me back from building the rest of the ship. I assume once they are gone, the build will go much more quickly.

Using Perfect Plastic Putty did not work out well for me. After sanding I was left with micro potholes all over the gridlines, and the PPP seemed to not ever get flush with the main hull, even after sanding smooth. The primer coat revealed completely unacceptable visibility of the gridlines still there. 

So at the suggestion of Ross W, I believe it was, I tried Acrylic Modeling Paste. Now, this stuff is not intended for model building or filling seams, but it seems to do the job. I found this at Hobby Lobby in the materials for painting canvas and oil painting. It is non toxic and water washup. So far the gridlines seem to be much better filled than the Perfect Plastic Putty gave me. Very easy to sand as well. We'll know for sure when I get it all sanded and hit with another layer of primer.


----------



## RossW (Jan 12, 2000)

Hope my suggestion works out for you! If you do wet sand, don't get the paper too wet as it will pull up the modelling paste - you need to go slowly with the sanding.


----------



## Rahn (Jun 2, 2009)

I have notice the same issue using PPP on the grid lines.
I have not sprayed any primer yet, but I can already see the pinholes.
I'll be curious how this works for you.


----------



## whiskeyrat (May 7, 2012)

Rahn said:


> I have notice the same issue using PPP on the grid lines.
> I have not sprayed any primer yet, but I can already see the pinholes.
> I'll be curious how this works for you.


I tried PPP as well, with somewhat less than desirable results too... seems like it doesn't really adhere too well to the plastic, if simply wet-sanding it makes it detach... If I ever get around to my TOS Big E I'll probably use Tamiya White Putty to fill the grids, I've had much better results consistently with that stuff.


----------



## Mark2000 (Oct 13, 2013)

You can't really wet sand PPP. Its water soluble and makes a mess. You can, however, spread it and smooth it with a wet q-tip to fill in thin seams. I do like PPP and used it as my only putty on my 1/350 E build. I didn't remove the grid lines, though.


----------



## RossW (Jan 12, 2000)

You can **lightly** wet sand PPP, but you can't get it too wet. I started with Bondo automotive putty but it got real messy and screwed up the windows (the slurry I made melted the pastic!). I finished filling the grid lines with PPP and overall was very pleased.


----------



## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

I ended up having to reapply the PPP after trying to be too neat with it the first time. Second time around I really gooped it on. It meant a lot more rough sanding but when I was done it was quite smooth.


IMG_4567 by trekriffic, on Flickr


IMG_4568 by trekriffic, on Flickr



IMG_5136 by trekriffic, on Flickr


----------



## PixelMagic (Aug 25, 2004)

Trekkriffic said:


> I ended up having to reapply the PPP after trying to be too neat with it the first time. Second time around I really gooped it on. It meant a lot more rough sanding but when I was done it was quite smooth.


I have applied PPP twice over, and the grids are still not filled properly. I was heavy with it too. I think this modeling paste will do the trick, and whatever faint lines are left will be taken care of by the high build primer. That will be sanded smooth, and hit with Tamiya primer, then the paint coats. Should look nice.


----------



## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

PixelMagic said:


> I have applied PPP twice over, and the grids are still not filled properly. I was heavy with it too. I think this modeling paste will do the trick, and whatever faint lines are left will be taken care of by the high build primer. That will be sanded smooth, and hit with Tamiya primer, then the paint coats. Should look nice.


Yes. I should menion the pics I posted above were taken after 2-3 coats of high build filler primer with sanding done between coats. I also had glued in the window inserts. Great stuff!


----------



## PixelMagic (Aug 25, 2004)

ALMOST done with these damn grids. Just a few spot fixes here and there with Tamiya White Putty. Also filled the bridge grids.


----------



## PixelMagic (Aug 25, 2004)

Well, my afternoon just became disheartening. I have been spending most of my free time building this model, trying to get it done for Wonderfest. While putting finishing touches on the bottom saucer, I managed to have a mishap, which I tried to correct with acetone, only to make a bigger problem and ruin the whole piece. Chewed up the putty in my gridlines too. Oh well, hobbies are about learning, I have a spare kit I can pull another saucer from.










This does mean however, that I will have to completely redo the gridlines. Damn, I hate the decision to put those on there. This would have never happened.


----------



## J_Indy (Jan 28, 2013)

PixelMagic said:


> This does mean however, that I will have to completely redo the gridlines. Damn, I hate the decision to put those on there. This would have never happened.


Sorry to hear about the mishap. I guess that one's going to be the Constellation eventually. 

Yes - the gridlines.....the gridlines..... If only someone realized how much trouble they were making with them....


----------



## harristotle (Aug 7, 2008)

That's rough man, best of luck to you!


----------



## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

Ouch! Acetone and plastic. Not a good combo!


----------



## RossW (Jan 12, 2000)

I feel your pain.

I messed up the window cut-outs when first puttying the gridlines with a Bondo slurry (Bondo + Testors Liquid Cement). With some other mistakes on the pylons & nacelles, I ended up buying another kit from my LHS for those parts.


----------



## PixelMagic (Aug 25, 2004)

Well, the day wasn't a total bust. I finished priming the secondary hull and most of the nacelle pieces. The secondary hulls and finished nacelle pieces are absolutely blemish free, which I'm very happy about. Smooth as can be. Still got to finish priming the inboard nacelle pieces, but that should be no problem. The secondary hull is now ready for electronic installations.


----------



## Mark2000 (Oct 13, 2013)

If you don't want to displace another kit, R2 can send you another saucer at not that much cost.


----------



## PixelMagic (Aug 25, 2004)

Mark2000 said:


> If you don't want to displace another kit, R2 can send you another saucer at not that much cost.


Interesting. How would I go about this?


----------



## RossW (Jan 12, 2000)

PixelMagic said:


> Interesting. How would I go about this?


From their website: http://www.round2models.com/replacement/


----------



## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

At least from the photo, the bottom saucer doesn't look irreparably damaged. Nothing that a good sanding (and some colorful language) wouldn't fix.


----------



## Scotty K (Mar 21, 2011)

PixelMagic said:


> Well, my afternoon just became disheartening. I have been spending most of my free time building this model, trying to get it done for Wonderfest. While putting finishing touches on the bottom saucer, I managed to have a mishap, which I tried to correct with acetone, only to make a bigger problem and ruin the whole piece. Chewed up the putty in my gridlines too. Oh well, hobbies are about learning, I have a spare kit I can pull another saucer from.


I have used Liquidtex modeling paste for many years; I have had great results with it.

My experience has been that when it starts to set up and you still need to work it, use a bit of denatured alcohol. That will loosen it up some.


----------



## PixelMagic (Aug 25, 2004)

After the saucer mishap, I decided to work on the rest of the ship and swing back to the saucer toward the end. I got a lot of major and minor components primed or painted this weekend.


----------



## PixelMagic (Aug 25, 2004)

Bridge painted. Gotta do some touch up, but damn it's hard to not be sloppy on something this small. Also found a slight problem with my model kit. The inboard pylon pieces are ever so slightly bent instead of straight. Almost impossible to see. Is there a way I can soften the plastic and then maybe set it under some heavy books or something to straighten it out?


----------



## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

I had a slight curvature with the pylon halves myself. I left them sitting out in the warmth of the sun coming thru the garage windows for a week or so while I was working on other stuff. I wasn't intending to straighten them that way but when I inspected the parts later they were straightened out. So it doesn't take much heat to get them straight. If you don't have the time or patience to let the sun work for you, you might try heating them with a blow drier and then laying them flat between a couple of heavy books. Or you could try soaking them in hot water too. Or if you have a bench vice place the heated pylons between two wooden paint stir sticks to protect them and clamp them tight in the vice one at a time before they cool. If you have a situation where only one half the pylon (either outer or inner half) is warped and the other half is straight gluing them together with tube glue and clamping as they dry might do the trick too.


----------



## PixelMagic (Aug 25, 2004)

Got the saucer all cleaned up after the acetone accident.

Once more unto the breach, dear friends...


----------



## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

Die Hard.


----------



## PixelMagic (Aug 25, 2004)

Hit a major milestone today. All major hull pieces (saucer, secondary hull, pylons, and nacelles) are primed and that means I am ready to get electronics installed. That is except for the lower saucer which I am bringing back up to spec.










I also have never frosted pieces before, so I used Valspar Frosting Spray from Lowes to frost up the inner bussard domes before I tried it on the outer domes. I must say it came out quite nice. The trick is spraying it in thin light coats, building up the frost slowly, and not all at once.


----------



## PixelMagic (Aug 25, 2004)

Some of you may remember a couple of months ago I had a disastrous acetone spill on my TOS Enterprise saucer AFTER filling all the gridlines. After extensive cleanup and completely refilling the gridlines again, the saucer is now ready for paint. I cannot express how glad I am this part of the process is done.


----------



## robn1 (Nov 17, 2012)

Nice save :thumbsup:


----------



## PixelMagic (Aug 25, 2004)

Thanks. It was soooooooooo much work. Sand, fill, sand, fill, sand, fill, sand. So many spot fixes here or there to get the entire surface perfectly smooth. I wasn't satisfied until you could be two inches from the hull and be as smooth as an android's bottom.


----------



## RossW (Jan 12, 2000)

Looks great!


----------



## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

Smooth!


----------



## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

OMG I am sooo happy for you!


----------



## PixelMagic (Aug 25, 2004)

Thanks guys. Trekkriffic, your build inspired me to keep going with the gridlines, even when I wanted to pull my hair out. You know what a pain they are!


----------



## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

PixelMagic said:


> Thanks guys. Trekkriffic, your build inspired me to keep going with the gridlines, even when I wanted to pull my hair out. You know what a pain they are!


Oh yeah, we are sanding brothers you and I. I still suffer from memories of all those epic sanding sessions.


----------



## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

PixelMagic said:


> Thanks guys. Trekkriffic, your build inspired me to keep going with the gridlines, even when I wanted to pull my hair out. You know what a pain they are!


Oh yeah, we are sanding brothers you and I. I still suffer from flashbacks of those epic sanding sessions.


----------



## jgoldsack (Apr 26, 2004)

PixelMagic said:


> Thanks. It was soooooooooo much work. Sand, fill, sand, fill, sand, fill, sand. So many spot fixes here or there to get the entire surface perfectly smooth. I wasn't satisfied until you could be two inches from the hull and be as smooth as an android's bottom.


http://youtu.be/UwYbEWgpRmE?t=1m20s


----------



## Fozzie (May 25, 2009)

Man, that's an impressive "rescue". I don't think I could have pulled that off. Great job, man! :thumbsup:


----------



## edge10 (Oct 19, 2013)

Great job ...like butter!


----------



## KUROK (Feb 2, 2004)

you old smoothie!

Nice recovery!


----------



## PixelMagic (Aug 25, 2004)

Thanks guys. Another small problem which has come up with this piece is the planetary sensor dome housing which was under the tape. It's got a bit of primer that managed to slip under the tape. Should I use a flexi file or some such to sand? It's a difficult piece to get into the corners of. There are also the phaser banks which I have to be careful not to sand down.


----------



## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

PixelMagic said:


> Thanks guys. Another small problem which has come up with this piece is the planetary sensor dome housing which was under the tape. It's got a bit of primer that managed to slip under the tape. Should I use a flexi file or some such to sand? It's a difficult piece to get into the corners of. There are also the phaser banks which I have to be careful not to sand down.


The dome should clean up with a little thinner on a q-tip or, better yet, a microbrush. Just be careful not to get any on the paint on the ring around the dome. If it were me I'd lay a ring of masking tape around the edge of the dome and use only enough thinner required for cleanup. You don't want too much thinner near the tape edge or it will run under the tape for sure and soften the paint on the ring. One way to prevent that is to paint the ring with some Future, let it dry, lay on the masking tape, then paint the edge with a little more Future to seal it. The Future will act as a barrier against paint bleed under the tape.


----------



## PixelMagic (Aug 25, 2004)

Perhaps I should have been more clear in what I meant. The dome is still on the sprue in the box, I have not attached it yet. I am actually talking about the ring that goes around the dome. It's covered in some primer that shouldn't be there. 

I am afraid sanding it will cause the "phaser bank" nubs to get sanded down, and I don't want to loose that detail. Sanding the edge of the ring will also be difficult since it is so close to the saucer bottom. It's a tight squeeze.


----------



## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

PixelMagic said:


> Perhaps I should have been more clear in what I meant. The dome is still on the sprue in the box, I have not attached it yet. I am actually talking about the ring that goes around the dome. It's covered in some primer that shouldn't be there.
> 
> I am afraid sanding it will cause the "phaser bank" nubs to get sanded down, and I don't want to loose that detail. Sanding the edge of the ring will also be difficult since it is so close to the saucer bottom. It's a tight squeeze.


Simple Green or Purple Power will take paint or primer off without harming the plastic. Brush some on and let it sit for 10-15 minutes then try wiping it off. Alcohol would probably work too if it's enamel and not lacquer.


----------



## PixelMagic (Aug 25, 2004)

Trekkriffic said:


> Simple Green or Purple Power will take paint or primer off without harming the plastic. Brush some on and let it sit for 10-15 minutes then try wiping it off. Alcohol would probably work too if it's enamel and not lacquer.


It's Tamiya Lacquer primer. I only use lacquers on my models.


----------



## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

PixelMagic said:


> It's Tamiya Lacquer primer. I only use lacquers on my models.


Yeah. I've gotten so I like lacquer primers the best now too. I like the short drying time immensely.


----------



## PixelMagic (Aug 25, 2004)

Trekkriffic said:


> Yeah. I've gotten so I like lacquer primers the best now too. I like the short drying time immensely.


Do you think Simple Green or Purple Power will work on lacquer? And when I said I only use lacquers, I mean on primer and paint.


----------



## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

PixelMagic said:


> Do you think Simple Green or Purple Power will work on lacquer? And when I said I only use lacquers, I mean on primer and paint.


Purple Power removes chrome pating from plastic parts so I think it would work on lacquer primers too. Why can't you just paint over the primer?


----------



## PixelMagic (Aug 25, 2004)

Trekkriffic said:


> Why can't you just paint over the primer?


The reason I don't want to is because the sensor ring has some gunk on it, and it's hard to sand down because of the shape of the ring. So I would just rather strip down to plastic and start over. Look at the pictures below to see what I mean.


----------



## WOI (Jun 28, 2012)

What the heck is Purple Power,does it go by another name
and where can I order for it?


----------



## PixelMagic (Aug 25, 2004)

So, just to report back, the Purple Power did not remove the Tamiya lacquer primer. That stuff is durable. However, what I did do, was soak a Q-Tip in acetone, and wipe the surface. That brought the primer right off.

You have to be careful with this though, because pouring acetone on the model can eat up the plastic if you leave it on too long. However, using it on a Q-Tip keeps the amount on the model to a minimum, and it evaporates off the plastic very quickly, preventing damage. It worked well.

I'll probably do one more pass and some sanding to smooth it, and it will be good as new. 












WOI said:


> What the heck is Purple Power,does it go by another name
> and where can I order for it?


You can find both Simple Green and Purple Power in the automotive section at Walmart.


----------



## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

Is Purple Power sometimes called "Zep?"

(nice macro, by the way)


----------



## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

SteveR said:


> Is Purple Power sometimes called "Zep?"
> 
> (nice macro, by the way)


Sorry. I call it Purple Power 'cuz that's easy to remember.
What I have is actually called "Super Clean". 
Comes in a purple spray bottle. 
Got it in the automotive section at Walmart.

Glad the acetone worked for you PM!


----------



## Prologic9 (Dec 4, 2009)

I've never had luck with the green/purple non-toxic stuff either. 

Regular *Easy-Off Oven Cleaner™* will remove the paint quickly without harming the plastic. Good for larger pieces because you can soak them. 

Here I used it to strip 10 year old Auto primer, and various testors enamels and lacquers off an old NX-01 kit. You can see discoloration of the plastic afterwords, I think this was from the "bite" of the Auto-primer. But the actual surface is clean and smooth.


----------



## PixelMagic (Aug 25, 2004)

How were you able to soak in oven cleaner? Doesn't it only come in a spray?


----------



## Prologic9 (Dec 4, 2009)

Well it doesn't soak like being in the ocean, but it foams up so you can spray it and cover an entire model easily. I just leave it on for 10 mins or so and the paint scrubs right off, repeat if necessary.

*Also wear gloves


----------



## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

Prologic9 said:


> Well it doesn't soak like being in the ocean, but it foams up so you can spray it and cover an entire model easily. I just leave it on for 10 mins or so and the paint scrubs right off, repeat if necessary.
> 
> *Also wear gloves


I've heard about using EasyOff for paint removal. You definitely need to wear gloves. I used it for it's intended purpose to clean my old double oven some years ago and while scrubbing the upper oven a few drops got onto the lower stove top without my notice. When I went to clean the lower oven and burners an hour or so later it had removed the paint. I also got a drop on my forearm, didn't notice it with my gloves on, and it left a shallow divot in my flesh!


----------



## GSaum (May 26, 2005)

Just read through this entire thread for the first time as I will be tackling this project beginning this weekend, starting with filling in the lovely grid lines. Love your attention to detail on this!


----------



## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

Trekkriffic said:


> I've heard about using EasyOff for paint removal.
> I also got a drop on my forearm, didn't notice it with my gloves on, and it left a shallow divot in my flesh!


That's like sulphuric acid-lite. I lost a bit of a fingerprint to it. Not much to speak of, but it impressed the hell out of me.:lol:


----------



## PixelMagic (Aug 25, 2004)

GSaum said:


> Just read through this entire thread for the first time as I will be tackling this project beginning this weekend, starting with filling in the lovely grid lines. Love your attention to detail on this!


If you do, you gotta have dedication all the way. There were so many times I wanted to stop.


----------



## GSaum (May 26, 2005)

PixelMagic said:


> If you do, you gotta have dedication all the way. There were so many times I wanted to stop.


Yea, it scares the hell out of me frankly. I'm a teacher, so I have some extra time right now and my hope was to get it finished by the first week of August for our local fair, but I'm doubting that's going to happen! Those grid lines are gonna be a nightmare!


----------



## PixelMagic (Aug 25, 2004)

GSaum said:


> Yea, it scares the hell out of me frankly. I'm a teacher, so I have some extra time right now and my hope was to get it finished by the first week of August for our local fair, but I'm doubting that's going to happen! Those grid lines are gonna be a nightmare!


Just going in, I recommend staying way from water based puttys. You want one that won't have a problem with wet sanding. Dry sanding will take forever.


----------



## RossW (Jan 12, 2000)

The water-based putties like 'Perfect Plastic Putty' or artist modelling pastes can be wet sanded but only if you don't soak the sandpaper. But I did end up using a combination of Bondo, Tamiya grey putty and Liquitex modelling paste to completely hide the grid lines.

Good luck GSaum! And post photos of your progress if you're able.


----------



## PixelMagic (Aug 25, 2004)

Welp, I spent about 2 years modeling Star Wars ships instead of finishing this up. Let's get back to it!

Deflector dish primed with Mr. Surfacer 1200 Spray, then Alclad Gloss Black as a base coat, then Alclad Copper on top. Love it!


----------



## RossW (Jan 12, 2000)

Looks just like mine!


----------

