# Controller question



## Xence (Oct 2, 2007)

ok I've searched through a bit on the forums here and found a few things but when it comes to modifying the stock controllers I know absolutely nothing. I need to know from the ground up. I know how to solder and Ohm's law and all of the basics but I see some people run with controllers that have just a couple of ohms all the way up to 70-100. Can someone explain this please?

Would I be better off coughing up the $25 or so for a stock parma controller and then modifying that? Way back when I was running the 1/32 cars on one of the big tracks I had a pretty good parma controller that I had modded but that had to be 15 years ago in my real early 20's and at thsi point I have no idea what I had done.

I think it's the slotking on the bay that has the cheaper parma's for sale. 

I'm not looking to break the bank on this.

Thanks,
Xence


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## micyou03 (Apr 8, 2003)

Xence,

I can't explain mods for controllers and all that, but I do know that I like a 125 ohm controller for my JLTOs and AW T-jets at 20 volts, and a 60 ohm controller for all my other HO cars at 20 volts. 

I also have a $50 Professor Motor electronic controller that seems to be good for everything except the JLTOs and AW T-jets. 

One of these days when we get together you'll be able to try them.


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## dlw (Aug 17, 1999)

http://howorld.net has step-by-step instructions on building a modded controller.


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## Xence (Oct 2, 2007)

micyou3,

hey send me your phone number so we can yap from time to time. I know you're pretty busy but I'm sure we'll work it out where we can get together sooner or later. Not sure if you were reading but I'm working on that 4'x4' layout now. I'm getting there and with help from crimnick and others I'm hoping it'll truly be fun to race (even if a tad bit small for the moment) 

dlw, as always you're decent and helpful. Thanks! I'm going to check that site out in just a bit here...

Cheers,
Xence


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## ic-racer (Jan 21, 2007)

Xence said:


> t I see some people run with controllers that have just a couple of ohms all the way up to 70-100. Can someone explain this please?


The thing with using a resistor to control voltage is that the voltage drop you get is very dependent on the current, or flow of electricity, to the car.

A "hot" motor with low resistance winding will draw more current through your controller than a stock t-jet. 

If you know ohm's law then you should be able to show this on paper (ie. the voltage drop across a resistor is much MORE as the current increases)

Controller mods with fixed resistors and switches are fun and inexpensive, though, some lead to a loss of 'linearity' in the response of the controller. 

"electronic" controllers use a transistor or silicon controlled rectifier to control the current to the car. The voltage drop through these devices is less susceptible to the current draw of the car's motor. 

After using an "electronic" controller, it is hard to go back to the simple resistor type. Difalco upgraded to a 12 band controller, and I still see the 10 band controllers at a discount (though still close to $200).

Of course once you experiment a little with modifying a resistor controller, you will be in good shape to eventually build your own 'electronic' controller and save a lot of money.


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## smokinHOs (May 30, 2006)

I'll throw my hat in... I would seriously recommend getting an "all-purpose" controller. I saw mention of a $50 Professor Motor Electronic Controller and he is right, great controller for _most_ applications. 

I have the same controller and due to some of it's limitations (low end and high end), I opted for the more expensive and highest level PM controller. Yes, it set me back $125 or so, BUT I ended up with a controller that I can run anything and everything. Variable brake (aka coast), variable external sensitivity adjustments, power light, heat sink, fuse protection, and more. All in a very light-weight compact handle. I am a little put off by the "franken-trollers" that have all kinds of stuff sticking out of the handle and hangin' off the hook-up wires...

Regardless, I always tell anyone who is controller shopping that it doesn't matter what controller make you choose, just get one you like and spend the extra cash now, because you WILL spend it later... I had 4 lower end, different Ohm Parma controllers, now I have one PM...

Enjoy-


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## martybauer31 (Jan 27, 2004)

You haven't really said what you're going to be running, so you may want to share that with us to help you a bit more.

If you're just running t-jets, or magna-tractions, or just one class of car, you'd probably be fine with a single controller. If you are wanting to run a bunch of different classes you may want to invest in a franken-troller like smokinHOs is talking about.

The thing is, even within the T-Jet class you'll find a BIG variation in the the speeds and actions of the cars, like ic-racer mentions.

I happen to run everything from G3 Super Stock cars, to the G3 G-Jets, to t-jets, magna-tractions, you name it and I like to run it. As things go, I have a bit of a problem with controller-itis and some healthy competition with Mike King (don't even get us started).

You can find them cheap on ebay for as low as $125 or spend up to $300 on a do everything controller, I have done both and found that you get what you pay for.

I always think it's interesting to see when people spend countless hours, and hundreds and hundreds of dollars on a track, power supply, and tons of different types of cars, and then cheap out on one of the most important aspects of running their car, the controller.

Don't get me wrong, you can get by with a stock parma, we had a guy at last years Western States run the table in the amateur G3 club stock class with a 35 ohm stock parma, but he was the exception, and a nice controller helps you define how you drive each individual car best.


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## Xence (Oct 2, 2007)

Well I'm running AW/XT's old A/FX magna & non-magnatraction cars, A/FX g-plus. I'm just now getting into the stock super G's, (Those run real nice) SRT's, some old Tyco 440X2's. I have a few of those rocket cars but those bore the everliving daylights out of me so I probably won't be running those very often. I know I have 2 of those wizzard cars and then this guy called quick nick out here in the east coast sold me like 3 of those rockets that he builds. Man those cars are fast but I just don't enjoy that. So I take those cars out every once in a great great while and that's about it.

So that's it in a nutshell. I was looking at the professor motor controllers, some of those are wicked looking. So anyways, this is about where I stand with the cars that I run/plan on running.


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## Dslot (Sep 2, 2007)

Xence said:


> Well I'm running AW/XT's old A/FX magna & non-magnatraction cars...


Xence,
You might mention that you are planning to run the cars on a VERY tight course, with no long straights, only a few broad curves, numerous 6" curves and a 3" hairpin (if it's the course in your Track Building forum "4 x 4" thread), so low-speed control is going to be vital, and top end fairly inconsequential.

My guess is you'll want an electronic, or else a high-ohm basic controller, maybe even with added inline resistance or a lower voltage power source. But I'm just barely starting to get a grip on controllers, so I'll leave specific recommendations to the knowledgeable guys.

--D


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## [email protected] (Jan 25, 2007)

I tried the Parmas........ they were pretty good but i love the top grade PM. I've found that the controller really has a lot to do with dialing in my driving. I am going to upgrade to the DiFalco 225 -15. 15 band (the latest) for Christmas. Controllers are like camera lenses "buy the best one you can afford". mj


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## Xence (Oct 2, 2007)

After going through for awhile and with crimnick's help I put together a nice tight little course on a 4'x4' board. After seeing what everyone was talking about concerning not having a real nice long straight I'm going to see if someone I know may have a door I can have or I'll just buy one from the local store or something. I believe those are like 4'x8'. I spoke with the wife some more and after telling her what I wanted to do she was actually ok with it. I spoke to her once before about this and she didn't understand the need for more space but then after watching me with the much faster G+'s vs. the XT's or the old A/FX's she began to see the light. So I'm going to build the 4'x4' for a friend of mine who has even less space than I do and give him the board with all the track and build myself a 4'x8' or some derivative thereof. So what this boils down to is I'm going to end up with the longer straights that everyone is talking about. So my need for a better controller is thus changed to what I believe most others here race.

Hope that clarify's what my plans are. Any/all help would be appreciated.

Cheers,
Xence


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## martybauer31 (Jan 27, 2004)

Doors are typically about 32" x 80", if you can actually go to a 4 x 8 it would open things up even more, but any additional length you can get would help. If the wife is willing to let you use a door, maybe she let you add an extra measly 16" in length and in width and get that 4 x 8? ;-) We're all pulling for you man!

THEN..... you can go get yourself a nice controller, or two, cause you'll have buddies come over and want to race as well. =)


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## mking (Apr 25, 2000)

martybauer31 said:


> As things go, I have a bit of a problem with controller-itis and some healthy competition with Mike King (don't even get us started).


any one remember this?: 

My dog's better than your dog. My dog's better than yours. My dog's better 'cause he eats Kennel Rations. My dog's better than yours"

so, for martyb....

My controller's better than your controller, my controller's better than yours. My controller's better 'cause he beat you saturday night on your OWN track. My controller's better than yours. 


thhhppppptttttbbbbbttttttt!





,


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## martybauer31 (Jan 27, 2004)

Hmmm, someone is feeling a bit inadequate me thinks. =)


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## Xence (Oct 2, 2007)

uh-oh... someone threw the gauntlet down. hehehe


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## micyou03 (Apr 8, 2003)

Xence,

I'll give you a call tonight.


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

For the size of track you are talking about, a good compromise controller would be the BRP Nitro 95 (http://www.bat-jet.com/nitro.html). It will work well for TJets and AFX Magnatractions and AW-XTs even if you go up to a 4x8 table or even larger. Yeah, a $250 Difalco would work too, and even allow you to run unlimiteds, but it doesn't sound like you would get a big thrill out of those cars anyway. Running tweaked TJets, MTs/XTs, Turbos, and Tycos on a smaller sized track is every bit as much fun as running Storms, T1a, and G3s on a 4x16 or larger track. I like racing just about everything but if I was constrained by space I would definitely concentrate on the pancake powered species of slot cars. They are an absolute blast.


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## micyou03 (Apr 8, 2003)

I am now thinking of selling all my controllers and getting two electronic controllers. 

The problem that I have is I need something that will work from 7 volts to 20 volts, so I can use it for 1/43rd, HO and hopefully 1/24th.

Does anyone know of an electronic controller that will work this entire range>


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## Xence (Oct 2, 2007)

Hey micyou3, 

I don't claim to be real knowledgable on this subject but what about a professor motor controller? I know they have a pretty nice site setup and the controllers they have have all of the specs listed on the main page.

Just trying to help, like I said I know very little about this.


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## mking (Apr 25, 2000)

*electronic controllers*

hi micyou

i think the electronic controller for all car types is a mythical beast. i havent found one, despite spending most of my 401K trying to beat MartyB in our ongoing Controller Wars. My Difalcos (2) almost counter his Ruddicks (2), but my Trek Lawler Fray controllers are not quite up to his Gogo or Medanic controllers. But I may have a new secret weapon...Third Eye! (evil cackle, dreaming of sharks w/ friggin laser beams....)

Seriously, the folks I race with have in aggregate spend some serious money on electronic controllers, and the only people I know who use only one controller (a Ruddick DR-50) only race certain classes (G3s. G-jets, no Fray cars). Guys who race many different classes have electronic controllers optimized for a particular power band. 

I have a Trek Lawler EC for Fray cars, that also works very well for JLTO. But it does not work very well for Superstocks (magnet cars like P3s, G3s, Tomy Super G+, Tyco 4402). For those classes, I use a Difalco. For Gjets, I use a Scott Dunlap EC controller made for Fray cars that just happens to have a power band that works really well with Gjets at 12 volts. My other Fray controller and the Difalco dont work as well for Gjets. 

I would like to find an EC that works really good for many different classes, then I too would sell off my more class specific controllers, and put the money back into my 401k!

EC i know of:

Gogo: http://www.gohoracing.com/ MartyB has one, ask him for what he likes it for, I think he uses it mostly for Fray cars. $225

Medanic: http://home.comcast.net/~medanic/M-Magic/Magic-1.htm MartyB has one. $225. I am not sure what class he thinks it works best for. 

DiFalco: http://www.difalcoonline.com/HOControllers.htm I use this controller for Superstocks, but not G3s or Tjets (it works for those, but not as well as other controllers I have). Ranges from $220-$280. I have an older 10 band being rebuilt by Jim Difalco into a new top of the line 15 band controller. I havent gotten that yet. 

Dunlap: http://www.dunlapmotorplex.com/speedcontroller.html $225-$350. A guy I race with uses an SD-4 as his primary controller, for Superstocks, G3 and Fray. I have an SD-4 variant (an earlier 1 off model) that I really like for G-jets, and seems to work fairly good for supserstocks and Frays.

Third Eye: http://www.thirdeyetechnology.net/ they sound cool, I havent had a chance to try one. But note he sells different models for 1/24, 1/32 and HO, and in HO he sells models for Tjet and different models for magnet cars. So no single model for all classes here. $125 for an EC Fray controller to $350 for a HO-Pro controller. 

Ruddock: http://www.scaleauto.com/controllers/dr40.htm What most races in the NW use. $225-$325. I am not sure how good of a Fray controller this would be. 

Cold Fusion: http://www.indoormotorsports.com/shop/?shop=1&cat=22& $175. looks alot like a Difalco, but i have never seen one in person. 

Trek Lawler doesnt have a website but occasionally builds controllers for Fray racing. I really like his controllers, and if you see one on Ebay buy it! I use mine for Tjet, JLTO, and JLXT. Not as good as other controllers for magnet cars or G-jets. 

Dana Latondra(?) sells controllers that lots of OR and WA guys use. Again, he has 2 differnt models for HO. I really liked his controller for magnet cars, but i FRIED mine at a race when i shorted the controller on the track (DUMB ASS!!!). 

One issue for controllers is whether you need 2 or 3 wires. Some 3 wire controllers WILL NOT WORK without the red or brake wire hooked up. Such controllers generally cant be used with plastic track, unless you specifically added a braking circuit. Note NONE of the Fray tracks is set up for brakes, so such a 3 wire controller couldnt be used at the Fray. One the other hand, some 3 wire controllers do not need the brake wire hooked up (some people refer to such a controller as a 2 wire controller, even though it might have 3 wires).


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## [email protected] (Jan 25, 2007)

Xence said:


> Hey micyou3,
> 
> I don't claim to be real knowledgable on this subject but what about a professor motor controller? I know they have a pretty nice site setup and the controllers they have have all of the specs listed on the main page.
> 
> Just trying to help, like I said I know very little about this.


I'm no rocket scientist on controllers but i agree .........IMHO the PM is the most bang for your buck. You can get an solid adjustable controller for a decent price. The only down side is having to clean the contacts regularly. If you don't it's performance (low end sensitivity)is diminished noticably. You can read about that on their site. It's probably the reason i will switch to Difalco. That and 15 band sensitivity. Please Santa please. LOL mj


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## martybauer31 (Jan 27, 2004)

I'll put in my $.02 based on Mike comments, because he's right, there really aren't many all in one solutions out there, none that I can think of that crossover from HO to 1/24, etc.

Here is what I have, have had, and what I use/used them for:

GoGo: A great fray car, t-jet controller, not quite enough there to run the 12 Volt G-Jets, but is good at what it does for the non magnet cars. 2 or 3 wire

Medanic: the only controller I have that runs everything, fray cars all the way up to Super Stocks and it does them all well, if you want just one, this would be it. 2 or 3 wire

DR-40: excellent for G-Jets and Superstocks, don't even think about using them for T-jets unless you want to burn it up. 3 wire only

DR-50: even more excellent for G-Jets and Super Stocks. This a lot of times is my main controller for HOPAC races. 3 wire only 

Difalco 10 band: I used it as my fray controller last year and did a decent enough job, can also be used for G-Jets and Super Stocks, another decent all around controller. 2 or 3 wire

Dunlap SD-4: A nice fray/t-jet controller. I had this until a guy on our fray team whined so much I had to sell it to him.  2 or 3 wire

Trek: Very nice for the fray/t-jets, I have one on order, coming soon. 2 wire  

HOPro by Dana LaTondre: Nice controller for G-Jet and Super Stock cars, unfortunately a bit unreliable, even if you don't lay them on a track  3 wire only

I have also tried the 3rd Eye for the Super Stocks and G-Jets and they are nice, as well as trying a Jet Stream which I didn't get much time with, so not sure how they are.

So as you can see, Mike and myself have a problem with controllers, we like them WAAAAAY too much. At the moment I am trying to figure how to get his SD-4, and considering the 3rd Eye again. :woohoo:


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## micyou03 (Apr 8, 2003)

Thanks everyone for the info. For what I do, it seems my most limiting factor is wanting to run my Artin 1/43rds at 7 volts. I can just keep my 15 ohm controllers for those. 

The main thing that I am sick of is having to change my controller when I go from JL/AW TOs to XTs. Do any of you know if one of the PMs will do that? I have a silver series, but my JL/AW TOs are too jumpy with that one.


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## mking (Apr 25, 2000)

*JLTO & JLXT*

hey mike

i use the Trek Lawler controller with XTs, JLTO, and Tjets, and am very happy with it. I think Trek charges about $150 for a controller, and you need to specify right or left hand. He doesnt make them all year, but I do know he is making some now for the 2008 Fray. My SD-4 also runs XTs and Fray cars well. I havent tried the Difalco for those chassis lately, but i will give it a try and let you know.


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

I know this is going to sound like it has an obvious answer, but I'll ask anyway...

When you guys say that a controller is not good for something, what exactly does that mean? That the controller acts too much as an on/off switch? It is not good for serious competition? It's not enjoyable?

Like anything else, the top levels of any sport or hobby can really start to split hairs when it comes to equipment. Maybe most of the considerations listed above apply to those who really want to do some serious racing.

What if your goal is simply to get a controller that makes it enjoyable to run your cars at home?

Thanks...Joe


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## Xence (Oct 2, 2007)

What Grandcheapskate/Joe just asked is almost exactly what I was looking for. I'm not looking to compete just to race at home with a friend or two and maybe now and then go somewhere else and have fun.

Cheers,
Xence


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## martybauer31 (Jan 27, 2004)

That unfortunately is up to the individual to decide.... I tried the cheaper parmas and Professor Motor controllers when I first started and they never felt quite right to me, but other guys absolutely love them. If you're just thrashing at home with a friend or 2 every now and then, a Parma or PM will do you just fine, but you may find that you need a couple to run your different cars. It just seems with these, you get what you pay for.


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

Holy cow, I didn't realize we had the Imelda Marcos of slot car controllers in our midst!  

I race everything from stock TJets, Fray/VHORS TJets, MT/XT, Tycos w/PII, L25 Mod Storms, L25 RO Storms, and Storm and G3 SS, all with one controller, a 15-band Difalco. I have run Unlimiteds with the same controller and it works just fine. I still consider this controller somewhat of an extravagance after having used Parma 25, 45, and 60 ohm resistor controllers for many years. I found that once you hit the Mod and RO classes a 25 ohm Parma isn't really usable and even the 60 ohm controller is dicey for JL TJets on a small and twisty track. 

I have tried many other controllers from racers who subscribe to the Controller of the Month Club. All controllers have their unique feel, but between the 3 adjustment knobs on my Difalco: sensitivity, coast, and choke, not to mention the fourth and finest adjustment knob known to man, the amazing feedback control system that is planted between the ears of the human skull and connected with varying degrees of fidelity to the human finger, I can get comfortable with any of the aforementioned cars with the one controller. I purposefully did not buy the Fanatic version of the Difalco because I'd be forever monkeying with the pots and not counting on Adjustment Knob #4 to do its job with as little distraction as possible.

That being said, I'd still have a hard time recommending a Difalco to someone just starting out in the hobby with a small track and running a limited number of types of cars. A basic or tweaked Parma that's matched to the few types of cars you run is going to get you going and get your head wrapped around what it takes to drive a slot car. There are a lot of other things that you'll need to spend money on anyway. Once you learn to use all of the tools you have at your disposal, especially Knob #4, then you'll know whether you'll benefit from having more specialized tools to take on bigger challenges, like the higher end magnet cars. 

Unless of course you're a controller collector. You never know when you're going to need a specialized controller for every combination of temperature, relative humidity, elevation, and moon phase. Next year is a leap year, so you'd better be prepared with a special controller that's optimized for races taking place on leap years.


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## martybauer31 (Jan 27, 2004)

AfxToo said:


> You never know when you're going to need a specialized controller for every combination of temperature, relative humidity, elevation, and moon phase. Next year is a leap year, so you'd better be prepared with a special controller that's optimized for races taking place on leap years.


Dangit, now you gave me something else to shoot for! Do you know where I can score a moon phase controller? Leap year and non-leap year of course....


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

I have a new 25 ohm Parma tucked away that I've never opened. When the JL T-Jets first came out, a lot of guys were saying that the best way to control them was with a 125 ohm controller. The 125 ohm resister was being sold by someone, but I can't remember his name.
The resisters on Parma controllers can be switched out with little effort, and no soldering, correct?

Thanks...Joe


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## dlw (Aug 17, 1999)

HO World has a link to buy 120 ohm resistors:


http://howorld.net


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## micyou03 (Apr 8, 2003)

Grandcheapskate said:


> I know this is going to sound like it has an obvious answer, but I'll ask anyway...
> 
> When you guys say that a controller is not good for something, what exactly does that mean? That the controller acts too much as an on/off switch? It is not good for serious competition? It's not enjoyable?
> 
> ...


I'm just messin' around by my self in the basement with 20 volts with 3 Amps regulated. What I mean is the controller feels too sluggish on some cars and like an on/off switch on others. For instance my 60 ohm Parma resister controller and my PM electronic controller feel good on everything except JL/AW T-jets. The 60 ohm Parma and the PM electronic are like on/off switches with my JL/AW T-jets. On the other hand my 125 ohm HO World resistor in my Parma handle works great with my JL/AW T-jets, but makes my other cars feel sluggish. I have to pull the trigger more than half way before the cars will even start moving.


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## TK Solver (Mar 18, 2004)

A Parma 90 works well (but not optimally) for both XT and TO chassis and it's hard to beat the price. I also have two Parmas with the HO World 120 Ohm resistors that many guests seem to like when they drive TOs on the edge lanes of my 4-lane track. We use Parma 60s for most XT and magnet car racing and everyone's happy with that. I have four 60s, 2 90s and 2 120s and we let the edge lanes decide if they want to use a higher ohm controller. Eight Parmas for a grand total of $200.


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

The BRP Nitro resistors have a non-linear wind so they come on faster on the top end so you have less throttle thrashing.

I think you can replace the resistor in a Parma Econo without having to solder. On the Parma Plus you have to desolder the old resistor and solder in the new one.


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