# Bachmann: Cancer Warning



## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

This afternoon I purchased the Bachmann Scene Scapes Spruce Trees product #32004.

Upon getting it home, I was looking at the box for further details and saw the small-type warning on the back, bottom fold:
"This product contains a chemical known to the State of California to cause cancer, birth defects or other reproductive harm."

Ok, no problem. There are lots of hobby products, such as putty and glues, 'known ot the State of Cali'. But those products provide not only an up-front and obvious warning, but handling procedures (wash skin, use with ventilation, etc) and name the chemical (toulene, cyano-acrylate, etc) used. At least with this most basic information, one can research and mitigate exposure and take safety precautions -or choose another product up front!

Nowhere on the box, nor on Bachmann's website, do they provide any information on the poison introduced into the product. Nor on their website do they even mention the product contains cancerous chemicals on the item / order page. Is this because if the consumer knew, we would choose another product? I certainly would have! There are likely non-toxic avenues they could pursue and looks like they do not.

So am I dealing with a slow acting fume? Is this a touch-transferred chemical? Is it in the plastic it's made with, the paint it's colored with or a spray it's coated with? 

It is the deliberate lack of information that offends me!

Bachmann is one of the most long-established names in the industry. I chose their product over a similar, and less expensive, Woodland Scenics product solely because of the Bachmann name -a name I've grown up with. They may not be required to list the poisons used. They may not be required to look out for the health and well-being of their customers. They may not care to post warnings or offer vital information about the hidden danger in their product. A reputable, responsible company would. 

All I needed was a christmas tree for a diorama and instead they ripped me off for $10 and exposed me to long term cancer potential. Hooray for them. I will not be returning the product. I will be disposing of it at the hazardous waste center in the morning 'according to proper California disposal procedures' for such toxic trash.

---------------------------
PS. I 'm sure this is a rant of some form, please accept my sincere apologies. All they had to do was list the chemical and I could make a judgement call instead of going overboard and disposing of it promptly.

Choosing to keep the consumer in ignorance seems pretty darned reprehensible to me.


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

Since the product is trees, perhaps the chemical is a pesticide, or preservative. Just guessing. Have you tried a state government site? Or the Consumer Products Safety Commission?


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

toyroy said:


> Since the product is trees, perhaps the chemical is a pesticide, or preservative...


--LOL!--


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## BrianM (Dec 3, 1998)

Is this warning due to California's Prop. 65? Warnings of possible carcinogens are posted EVERYWHERE. ANYTHING can cause cancer! The danger is remote, but it's posted as a "right to know" thing or to limit potential liability...it's a lawyers world!

Google Prop. 65 for more info.


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## scotpens (Sep 6, 2003)

Model Man said:


> All I needed was a christmas tree for a diorama and instead they ripped me off for $10 and exposed me to long term cancer potential. Hooray for them. I will not be returning the product. I will be disposing of it at the hazardous waste center in the morning 'according to proper California disposal procedures' for such toxic trash.
> 
> ---------------------------
> PS. I 'm sure this is a rant of some form, please accept my sincere apologies. All they had to do was list the chemical and I could make a judgement call instead of going overboard and disposing of it promptly.


You live in California. Surely you must be aware that those mandatory Prop. 65 warnings appear on hundreds, maybe thousands of products, and NOBODY takes them seriously. As BrianM posted, those silly warnings are literally everywhere. Hell, aspirin can probably cause cancer if you take 1000 pills a day. "Disposing of it at the hazardous waste center?" Is that a JOKE?

Unless you're a raving paranoid like Howard Hughes in his dotage, USE THE DAMN TREES!


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## Just Plain Al (Sep 7, 1999)

George Carlin:

"Warning saliva causes cancer. But only when swallowed in small amounts over long periods of time."


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

Living next to CA. I get to hear some of the dumber things that California gets all twisted about.
Last year it was the Mexican Coke bottles some stores had in stocked.

A lot of the smaller chains in the west carry the Mexican coke along with the American made because the stuff from south of the border is made with sugar and taste better.

The bottles were as CA. officials a ticking time bomb because the paint contained "traces" of lead that if licked long enough might cause problems with the brains of young children.


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## scotpens (Sep 6, 2003)

No one seems to know who actually said it -- it's been variously attributed to Fred Allen, Buckminster Fuller and Frank Lloyd Wright -- but it's still true: "The continent is tilted and everything loose slides into California."

If you're really concerned about possible cancer-causing agents in those model railroad trees, don't lick them!


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

White mice cause cancer!


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

Model Man said:


> This afternoon I purchased the Bachmann Scene Scapes Spruce Trees product #32004.
> 
> Upon getting it home, I was looking at the box for further details and saw the small-type warning on the back, bottom fold:
> "This product contains a chemical known to the State of California to cause cancer, birth defects or other reproductive harm."
> ...


I agree. Products _should_ provide such information. I can't understand people placing a higher value on a laissez-faire policy toward business, than on the simplest, least onerous concession to the safeguarding human welfare.


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

Model Man said:


> This afternoon I purchased the Bachmann Scene Scapes Spruce Trees product #32004.
> 
> Upon getting it home, I was looking at the box for further details and saw the small-type warning on the back, bottom fold:
> "This product contains a chemical known to the State of California to cause cancer, birth defects or other reproductive harm."
> ...



It could be that there isn't anything used on the trees that will cause cancer.
The California law allows folks to sue if it's possible that there might be something that maybe someday shown to possibly cause cancer. There is a large group of lawyers who do nothing but sue companies over the label or lack there of. Lots of manufactures just put the label on not because they have to but to shield themselves from the lawyers.

I'm no lawyer but it seems the law is written in a way that the state of California itself should have a label visible from a plane or space saying the state of California is known to contain substances that cause cancer.

ToyRoy...the law says any citizen can start the legal fight so go for it! All I ask is 10% of the winnings!:thumbsup:


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## scotpens (Sep 6, 2003)

swhite228 said:


> White mice cause cancer!


How do you smoke mice?


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

swhite228 said:


> ...The California law allows folks to sue if it's possible that there might be something that maybe someday shown to possibly cause cancer...


Whatever this law provides, consumers should know what's _in_ the products they are thinking of purchasing.


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

This has been an interesting thread. With the exception of one person, the general response here is to belittle me and my concern for my health, mock the voters of the most populace state for acting out of caution rather than abandon and generally show a level of idiocy I would not have expected. Nice.

Well, had I not already disposed of the trees, I could have mailed you each one to suck on to your heart's content.

I did get a return email from a VP of sales stating that Bachmann, in putting the warning on, is acting out of concern for their legal hazard; and that he did not believe they were even required to put the warning there. The inherent implication is that they are protecting themselves, not their consumers. There is no responsible reason this same product could not be made from non-toxic materials. Should they go green, I will return to their products. The chemical stench simply from opening the box was overwhelming. 

My original premise stands despite your ridicule: If any company puts a warning on their product, it should be backed up with further information. To not do so is akin to shouting fire in a theater.

PS. I'm not a CA native.


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## slotcarman12078 (Oct 3, 2008)

*Not belittling!! Please don't take this that way..*

It's a sad state of affairs when a company has to label every little thing is produces or purchases to resell because of some trace amount of a chemical that may or may not be contained in it. I understand the need to minimize drawn out litigation in stupid lawsuits, but this is beyond obsurd. Sadly, in an effort to protect themselves, companies are drowning CA residents in caution warnings to the point that most people will simply ignore them. The bigger hazard that situation will present is that true, legitimate warnings will go unheeded as the public becomes desensitized to the labels. Who get's sued then??? Again, I'm not bashing CA, it just seems to happen there alot more than everywhere else. I just purchased Bachmann ground cover and the warnings are on that too. I used it, and really am not overly concerned.. Apparently the health threat ends at the state line. :jest: I'm doing my best to keep this from getting "political" as we recently had 2 threads shut down for that reason in the slotcar forum. Apparently, Walthers cannot ship certain slotcars to CA for some reason or another. Allegedly a chemical used to keep plastic pliable is the culprit. Will the trains be next??


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

slotcarman12078 said:


> It's a sad state of affairs when a company has to label every little thing is produces or purchases to resell because of some trace amount of a chemical that may or may not be contained in it. I understand the need to minimize drawn out litigation in stupid lawsuits, but this is beyond obsurd. Sadly, in an effort to protect themselves, companies are drowning CA residents in caution warnings to the point that most people will simply ignore them. The bigger hazard that situation will present is that true, legitimate warnings will go unheeded as the public becomes desensitized to the labels. Who get's sued then??? Again, I'm not bashing CA, it just seems to happen there alot more than everywhere else. I just purchased Bachmann ground cover and the warnings are on that too. I used it, and really am not overly concerned.. Apparently the health threat ends at the state line. :jest: I'm doing my best to keep this from getting "political" as we recently had 2 threads shut down for that reason in the slotcar forum. Apparently, Walthers cannot ship certain slotcars to CA for some reason or another. Allegedly a chemical used to keep plastic pliable is the culprit. Will the trains be next??


It in the long run is cheaper for a company to just slap on a lable instead of defending itself in court. Bachmann like other companies is taking a safe approach to a poorly written law.
There is a material safety data sheet for plain water spelling out the dangers of water, but last time I checked most folks still drink it.


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## scotpens (Sep 6, 2003)

slotcarman12078 said:


> . . . Sadly, in an effort to protect themselves, companies are drowning CA residents in caution warnings to the point that most people will simply ignore them. The bigger hazard that situation will present is that true, legitimate warnings will go unheeded as the public becomes desensitized to the labels.


A classic case of the Law of Unintended Consequences, Section 1: Crying Wolf. It's why everyone ignores car alarms.


Model Man said:


> I did get a return email from a VP of sales stating that Bachmann, in putting the warning on, is acting out of concern for their legal hazard; and that he did not believe they were even required to put the warning there. The inherent implication is that they are protecting themselves, not their consumers.


That's what most of us had already surmised.

Just remember that, according to all the health and safety "experts," and all the health and safety laws and regulations that have sprouted up in the last 30 years or so, all of us 50-somethings should be DEAD!

Okay, didn't mean to veer into "political" territory. So, did you ever find an alternative to those trees?


swhite228 said:


> There is a material safety data sheet for plain water spelling out the dangers of water, but last time I checked most folks still drink it.


Well, we all know what this fellow had to say about water.


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