# trouble in the blue lane



## joegri (Feb 13, 2008)

hey fellas this is what i,m up against. using mdf as a track material and the unstable atmosphere in the basement i have to do the following maintenance.first let me tell ya the track is screwed down very well and all 6 sides have been painted.the track seems to heav during the cold winter/shrink after shrinking it would pop the rail out of the routed slot. the fix is to sever the rupture then in ject some wood glue then reinsert the rail and pinch wire.to be more clear the mdf would fracture/break away from its original position.yesterday the holiday i had a chance to fix this small hassel. as of last nite the blue lane is fine.the next track will be made out a type of plastic. if you know of a stable material for a track i,m all ears. really i,d rather have heat but the way it works around here the pellet stove runs upstairs satisfieing the tstat so the heat doesnt come on in the cave.hope the pics show the prob.


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## Tsooko (Oct 15, 2009)

That looks ugly. Sintra is what the commercial track makers use. Very stable as far as moisture is concerned. Don't know about wide temperature changes but I think it will work just fine. 
It is about 4 times the price of mdf though for the 6mm or 1/4" thick sheets, 4' x 8'
I wonder what you have the mdf screwed down to? If there are two different kinds of wood then that could be the problem as the woods will expand / contract at different rates and work against each other. Perhaps loosening the screws will allow a little " give ".

Cheers Ted


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## slotnewbie69 (Dec 3, 2008)

i would be interested in seeing your results joe,as i may want a routed layout aswell and low budg is what ia m after.


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## joegri (Feb 13, 2008)

yes yes it,s alice the goon ugly! however some of reapairs come out respectical when done.the pic of the yellow lane i severed the rail straightened out the ugly then let the rail overlap eachother then put the pinch wire back in. kinda like an expantion joint in a way seems to work pretty good.i,ll have to count how many crimps and how many fractures there are total mybe a dozen. at the height of winter i could check the track then half hour later a new frac or rail bunching i wuz loosin my mind when it first happened but with some creative thinking i,m able to fix the track.that is what prompted to post about track surfaces/repaint.snewb i,d go with mdf it comes in 5 by 8 also have some type of heat in your cave under construction.in the end i just gotta do a jumpshot every once in awhile the track still performs nicely i love it.


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## slotnewbie69 (Dec 3, 2008)

yeah i will have a pretty rustic cave,with only one radiator electric heater for now.hope to put in a woodstove eventually,but that may be more work than i want to do.


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## noddaz (Aug 6, 1999)

Wow...
Maybe insulate the walls of the basement to help prevent such drastic temp changes...
And some sort of heater to keep the temperature from getting too cold down there...?
After all, how cold is cold? Is it getting into the 50's? Or just the low 60's? If you knew what temperature was causing the problem, perhaps keeping the basement above that level could be your economic solution to the problem.

scott


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## slotcarman12078 (Oct 3, 2008)

I fear Joe has the same problem I have here. It gets cold enough for the pipes to freeze in my basement when it dips below 15 degrees outside. The landlord has no outlets in the basement for heat here. Joe has a twist though. Because he runs a pellet stove on the first floor, the furnace rarely comes on. Great for the heating bill, not great for his track. A kerosene heater or a small electric heater in the basement would eliminate that issue, but that would negate any benefit of the pellet stove. Move the pellet stove to the basement, and put a floor grate between the first and second floor. That's about the only feasible, though costly solution... Unless you can get the TM to give up the dining room... :lol:


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

MDF is actually one of the more stable types of lumber in regards to temperature changes. I'd bet it's even _way_ more stable than Sintra under extreme temperature variations as there's lots of air in Sintra. Both though, are good track choices and will generally not have major issues if the temp swings are reasonable enough for a person to withstand.

There are two likely possibilities I'd look at in your case Joe. First is the amount of lateral pressure...if your pinch wire is super tight, you could create a problem as I think the wire will expand/contract at a much higher rate than the MDF and do so more quickly. 

The other is that while you sealed all 6 sides, when you routed the slots you created a whole lot of area that is most likely _not _sealed. Any moisture - even a few drops of just about anything liquid - that is allowed to seep into the slots will weaken the MDF, and in that particular area in the pic, the pressure from the wire would compound the issue.


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## joegri (Feb 13, 2008)

said very well swampa g that could be it. since i,ve made some expantion joints at the height of winter i hav,nt had any more crumples.the coldest night i,d say 48 degrees hooded sweatshit is the fashion of the evening.much less and i,d rather hang up by the stove or better still git the wife to warm me up !!ultimately an other pellet stove is in the future. if yer not familiar with those things check ,em out they work great and cheap to run it,s just the cost of the stove that gets ya.slotcm nailed it i got a small pelonus oil filled electric heater that i put next to me. i dont work cold is cold.


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## Jerzferno (Aug 19, 2007)

slotcarman12078 said:


> I fear Joe has the same problem I have here. It gets cold enough for the pipes to freeze in my basement when it dips below 15 degrees outside. The landlord has no outlets in the basement for heat here. Joe has a twist though. Because he runs a pellet stove on the first floor, the furnace rarely comes on. Great for the heating bill, not great for his track. A kerosene heater or a small electric heater in the basement would eliminate that issue, but that would negate any benefit of the pellet stove. Move the pellet stove to the basement, and put a floor grate between the first and second floor. That's about the only feasible, though costly solution... Unless you can get the TM to give up the dining room... :lol:


Good lord please dont use a kerosene heater indoors unless you want a carbon monoxide problem. Please please dont do that.


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## slotcarman12078 (Oct 3, 2008)

The kero heater wouldn't work anyway. You can't run it all the time because the basement would be an oven, and it doesn't self regulate so it couldn't run unattended. Joe would still have the temperature swings. If Joe were to insulate the basement really well, and put a couple floor grates between the basement and first floor, the heat would even out for the most part. Or......

I don't know how that pellet stove is vented, but maybe a heat box can be fashioned around the chimney pipe and can somehow be ducted to the basement? There has to be a way to get heat down there without tearing up the house...


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## GaryV (Jul 16, 2006)

Hey Joe,
not to get away from the subject but I live in Forida and MDF down here really takes a beating, I am building a test track from the PVC foam like Sintra brand , What are you using for the pinch wire, are you using the regular small guage wire or are you using the plastic tubing without the wire in it.
I remember somewhere on the forum tha someone had found the pinchwire tubing without the copper in it and I am still looking for a source to get it.
Thanks
Gary


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## joegri (Feb 13, 2008)

tearing the house apart doesnt scare me.thats what i do for work.i think i,ll go through another winter with this present track.but the next 1 will be routed out of some type of plastic beside after routing 2 and counting you kinda get cocky . not to be a wise guy but i aint scat. just put some ching aside and buy the stuff and do another.and look around for another pellet stove. simple but costly anyhow whats it worth?this hobby is so much fun for me that money isnt the onlything i just wanna be happy !


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## joegri (Feb 13, 2008)

hey gary i,m using pinch wire that has copper in it. i,m not an expert but i,m guessin its in the 24 gauge or so.kinda like what you would find in telephone/communications. pinch wire with out the copper in it would be the shiznit. i,ll bet it would be perfect for pinch application. if you find it post the news cuz i,d get some for the next trak.hey g if you get time post a pic of the pvc/sintra i,d love to see it and how it routes.good luck and dont be scat.get in there and route yourself a cool track.lots of good help here the guys are quick to help with any situation.


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

GaryV said:


> Hey Joe,
> not to get away from the subject but I live in Forida and MDF down here really takes a beating, I am building a test track from the PVC foam like Sintra brand , What are you using for the pinch wire, are you using the regular small guage wire or are you using the plastic tubing without the wire in it.
> I remember somewhere on the forum tha someone had found the pinchwire tubing without the copper in it and I am still looking for a source to get it.
> Thanks
> Gary


There is a product for bead crafts called "S'getti String", it is a hollow plastic 1/16" diameter string, sorta like wire without the "wire" inside. It's sometimes advertised as solid but it is not. Awesome colors.

One problem with it is that even though it goes in tight, it is not strong enough to hold the rail material flat, and little bow or bump in the rail will just squeeze the tubing harder, where a real "wire" will push the rail straight against the slot wall.


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## joegri (Feb 13, 2008)

hummm that kinda makes sense swampa g . seems like it would be like a back bone of sorts.


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

*S'getti String*

Here ya go pics to back it up.

The goods:










Here you can see that it is hollow, and that it can't overcome even the natural curve of a piece of rail:









And lastly, a little sideways push on the rail:









It's too bad really, the colors are great as is the price...these were $1.99 each for a _50 Yard_ roll.


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## Hilltop Raceway (Feb 12, 2006)

The colors would be great. I don't guess it would be possible to run a small wire or thick fishing line through the center??? RM


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

Hilltop Raceway said:


> The colors would be great. I don't guess it would be possible to run a small wire or thick fishing line through the center??? RM


I think that would be quite difficult. :freak:

One other problem is that as you get further into the spool you will find that there are twists/flat spots. 


The colors are really vibrant though.


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## joegri (Feb 13, 2008)

well here it is a year later and i,m still having a prob with the trak shrinkin an then bending and popin a rail. i have been able to fix every speed bump but , what i,ve done this winter is go ahead and i insulated the floor joist then i bought a bunch of this blue 1/4 inch foam and glued it to the cement foundation.it really warmed up the slotcave a bit and makes it so there is,nt such a temp swing down there. if yer cave is cement go ahead and hold the backside of yer hand a couple of inches away from the cement . you,ll feel that cold just dyin to get in after the foam application yer gonna fell a big difference! at this moment i have a speed bump repair dryin and had to sever the rail material to get it correct. ya know what i,m gonna go down and take some pics. be right back.


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## joegri (Feb 13, 2008)

maybe this will help ya see what is happening a lil better also check the blue foamboard that has been added.that took a week of nights takin every thing down ,cleaning, installing,then putting everything back it also forced me to throw a bunch of junk away too!!i guess it,s a labor of love.in all it could be worse.


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## Slott V (Feb 3, 2005)

Wow that sucks. MDF board can expand and contract due to humidity levels more than temperature. That's why I went with maple plywood cabinets for my garage instead of the usual laminated particle board cabinets.

As the MDF swells, the rails don't. You might try stabilizing the humidity level in your basement with a dehumidifer.


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

Why is it just in blue lane? Any ideas?


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

Ya know Joe this thread had played a huge part in the progress and ultimately the methods used on my track. 

My garage is heated but only when I'm in it, it's not insulated well enough to keep the furnace on all the time. So I did a lot of observation of things ahead of finally installing the rail. I railed one lane with lock wire only, then watched the movement as cold weather came in. I marked the rail and lockwire with a Sharpie for reference. As the weather got colder, the first noticable shrinkage was in the lockwire, it moved a good 1/4" compared to the rail. Oddly, the rail appeared to "grow" as it moved forward about a 32nd in the othe direction...I can only attribute this to the lockwire shrinking which might allow the rail to pull in (get shorter) in the curves.

So this led to the inevitable decision to glue the lockwire in all the way around. I can't tell for sure if you did, in the pics it looks like maybe not? Anyway, I specifically chose E6000 heavy-duty craft glue, very strong but it remains flexible under pressure. After doing one lane, I marked everything again and waited. I saw temps as low a 25 degrees in the garage them got it up to 80 in an hour or so and held it there all afternoon....and saw no movement of my markings at all. This is not to say there is no movement, but I think the glue is acting as a mediator, absorbing the minute changes of one material while the other catches up and everything "settles" together. 

The other important thing is assembly procedure, it is absolutely critical to have the rail naturally resting against the proper edge of the slot prior to locking it in place, and you must always be working towards an open end as you move along. If you attempt to "push" or "pull" the rail into place, the rail will have tons of sidewards tension in the curves.

Lots of things learned over the last year...and it's all been worth it. :thumbsup:


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## tjd241 (Jan 25, 2004)

How about some of that plastic lace material they call "Gimp" ??..


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## joegri (Feb 13, 2008)

thanx guys for checkin in. i,ll address input with .... first off humidity the humidity level is very constant year round it,s very low i,ll guess it,s somewhere around 10/ 15 persent when it,s very cold and as much as 25% in the muggy months in the summer just guessing.and tex it is not only the blue lane the yellow had it,s issues too just not as many.and lastly when i raild the trak i did,nt use any glue it seemed to fit nicely so i just got on a roll and railed the whole trak.i,ve spent a lot of time tryin ti figure out why and really cant come up with just 1 reason for sure.as a guess and checkin out what other members have suggested its a combo of all of above. i,m gonna repair what i have then maybe this spring i,ll try the s,getti string. and swampa g,s experiment really is quite interesting. maybe i,ll glue the pinch wire in some increments say every foot or so. i don,t know. in the mean time alls i can do is repair what i have. and let me say i,m the only driver here.i think i,ve had 1 or 2 other people turn some laps so 1 workin lane in the past has been good enough. there is not 1 racer round these parts. so if yer in the area c,mon by and race ! thanx for adding fellas it helps alot.


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

Couple more questions...

What thickness is the MDF?

Is it all one sheet or is the track separate from the table top?


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## joegri (Feb 13, 2008)

tex the mdf is1/2 inch and it,s totally seperate from the table which is 1/2 inch plywood. i did all the pairs to get the blue lane back in shape. now i,m turnin laps on the blue just to get some wear on it. at this moment everything seems to be o.k. and i,m hoping to get a season or 2 out of this trak before i break out the router and shape up another 1.this side of the trak is very strange to me cuz i always drive from the other side.kinda like rearranging the furnture! iwas just takin some warm up laps when this kook came flyin over a dune with some hooters baja bug.anybody know who that nut is?


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