# Untimate Painting/Detailing Info for both original TOS F/X D-7 and Remastered . . .



## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

I know a lot of people have posted about the color scheme 
of the D-7 in the original TOS filming model.

However, has anyone here seriously studied the colors 
and other details present in the D-7's that have 
appeared in the Remastered TOS?

I realize of course, that perhaps many of you don't
care for the remastered f/x. There is nothing wrong
with that and I respect and understand that opinion.
But this thread is not really intended to be about
that debate.

I'd simply like to have a thread that carefully and
logically compares colors used in the original
filming minature, their commonly available bottle
and can equivalents; 

and any color or other detailing
variances that might have appeared
in the remastered versions of the TOS D-7.

I thought it would be a good idea have all the info in one place, 

Many of you have a wealth of info on the original filming
filming miniature, also I'm sure some of you have studied
the remastered version,

If you could chime in on painting and detailing info 
about both versions (though I expect there are a few who 
might not want to comment on the Remastered version, 
perhaps you could just comment on the original f/x miniature 
if that is the case),

or whichever version you care to, it would be greatly appreciated.


On the original f/x D-7,

1) What do you think the closest, most exact colors to the 
original filming miniature would be?

2) What would be the closest _*commonly available*_ 
(no-mixing required) bottled and canned colors
(yes, I know spray cans are anathema to many 
of you guys) for the original filming minature?


For the remastered version of the D-7, same questions:

1) What do you think the closest, most exact colors 
to the CGI D-7 would be?

2) What would be the closest _*commonly available*_ 
(no-mixing required) bottled and canned colors
(yes, I know spray cans are anathema to many 
of you guys) for the CGI D-7?



Also, I'm interested in any details of any other differences 
that might exist in the CGI remastered D-7's versus 
the original filming miniature.

I know Greg Jein added scribed lines(didn't care for that) 
in his DS9 version. While this thread isn't really about that
version, it's those kinds of differences between the original
f/x version and the remastered CGI version that I'm 
interested in - not just the colors, but stuff like windows, 
aztecing, scribed stuff, etc too.

Was anything like that, or any other non-color details, changed in the 
remastered D-7's?

Any information/observations anyone would care to share
on these points would be appreciated.

I'm hoping this thread can eventually be a one stop source 
of information about the D-7 TOS original filming miniature,

and any and all differences in the D-7's that appeared in
the remastered TOS series.

I think this is something that we could have fun with.

Sort of a "Where's Waldo?" of D-7 details!


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## jbond (Aug 29, 2002)

From what I could tell the TOS Remastered D-7 was just grey, except for the Romulan-painted versions in "The Enterprise Incident." The Klingon ship was originally made to just be viewed from long distance and not to hold up under medium or closeup scrutiny and I don't think it had any kind of complex paint job.


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

Googling "Klingon D-7 paint" led to this, on the Replica Prop Forum (scroll down for a paint guide): http://www.therpf.com/f10/finally-almost-done-my-cc-klingon-d-7-a-73257/


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

There is quite a bit of info already collected on the original TOS Klingon Battle Cruiser and its purple-grey over green paint scheme.

The trouble with trying to accurately match it today, in 2013 is that 1) the original filming miniature has been repainted and no attempt to document the original colors were made and 2) the duplicate miniature made by AMT and owned by Gene Roddenberry is no longer available and we just have an assortment of varying quality photos to go on. 

For the original miniature colors, after thinking about paints for a couple of years, I selected Krylon Pistachio spray paint for the light green. It matches very closely to at least some of the better color photos of the Roddenberry model. Perhaps the original color was a bit more blue as SOME photos imply. Or, perhaps, the photos are just bad or have color shift. I find the Krylon Jade color close but too dark IMHO. Especially on a smaller model. For the grey/purple top, I found no out of the jar or out of the spray match and mixed 50/50 Testors Gloss Purple and Testors Gloss Grey from the old 1/4 oz jar range. Tamiya makes an interesting spray paint, Grau-violet (Grey-violet) in their Luftwaffe spray paint range, but it is too dark for the Klingon Cruiser. 

The so called Roddenberry model



My kit







I include 3 pictures of my kit to show also how the colors can vary with indoor lighting, outdoor lighting, etc. The model looks quite different in all 3 shots.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

SteveR said:


> Googling "Klingon D-7 paint" led to this, on the Replica Prop Forum (scroll down for a paint guide): http://www.therpf.com/f10/finally-almost-done-my-cc-klingon-d-7-a-73257/


That's a lot of good information.

Has anyone everlisted green, grey and other colors that were close matches that didn't require mixing and airbrushing.

Since there seems to be only a few pictures that are supposed to be of the model with the two tone green/grey scheme,

it seems the shades of green and grey may be hard to ever pin down exactly. Not just the color registry(right term? not sure...) of the film has to be taken into account, but also seeing in on a computer screen also changes one's perception of the color.

I know Carson Dyle is a member, perhaps he can chime in.

I'm wondering if Jim Keys of Custom Replicas is a member.

I'm wondering if Jim was able to see actual photo prints of
the two tone paint job.

His scheme seems pretty dead-on. Though it would require
a lot of mixing.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

djnick66 said:


> There is quite a bit of info already collected on the original TOS Klingon Battle Cruiser and its purple-grey over green paint scheme.
> 
> The trouble with trying to accurately match it today, in 2013 is that 1) the original filming miniature has been repainted and no attempt to document the original colors were made and 2) the duplicate miniature made by AMT and owned by Gene Roddenberry is no longer available and we just have an assortment of varying quality photos to go on.
> 
> ...



Fantastic build!

Thanks for the painting info.

There is one pic that shows the grey on the backside of the hull to be significantly darker then all the other two-tone pics I've seen.

It's in the Carson Dyle post of Jim Key's instructions, on the page that SteveR posted the link to above.

http://www.therpf.com/f10/finally-almost-done-my-cc-klingon-d-7-a-73257/[/url]

How much darker is the Grau-violet?

Is it anywhere in the ballpark?


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

Grau-violet is much darker IMHO. Its more like German "Panzer Grey" just with a slight purple tinge.

I have quite a few photos of the Roddenberry ship from all sides and there is only one grey on it. Supposedly the model has not been repainted so it would still have the original paint applied in the late 1960s. It is ASSUMED the second model was painted the same way, as there is no reason to believe the two were painted differently.


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

If it were me, I'd spray it neutral grey then spray thinned coats of the field green and violet until they looked like complementing shades of grey ... hoping for the result that military modellers get on their work: tints of one colour.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

I'm a little torn on the colors myself.

I was wondering if anyone had done any research into the remastered D-7's 

mainly because that green just rubs me the wrong way. 

Sorry, but that's how I sincerely feel about it.

I'm hoping maybe the colors on the remastered D-7's look a little better.

I'm really torn as I have a Captain Cardboard D-7 and it would almost feel
sacreligous to paint her in another color scheme.

But I just can't seem to swallow that green. :freak:

Hence my dilemma.

I'd like to keep my TOS models as close to Jefferies' paint schemes as possible, 
but this one's green is so unappealing to me I feel I might
end up going another way.

I don't want to, just don't know if I can accept the green tones of the original paint scheme.

I know that would be the canon way to go, but the green bugs me.

Has anyone else ever had to deal with this issue in their D-7 builds?


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

I have the remastered episodes on Blu Ray but don't watch them. I can't see trying to match colors to a murky dark cartoon. 

For the TOS ships remember they way they looked on film is much different than the actual miniature, photograhed on its own without studio lights etc. My own model looks vasty different depending on lighting. You could go with a monotone scheme that looked like the ship did on TV and it would be quite nice.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

djnick66 said:


> I have the remastered episodes on Blu Ray but don't watch them. I can't see trying to match colors to a murky dark cartoon.
> 
> For the TOS ships remember they way they looked on film is much different than the actual miniature, photograhed on its own without studio lights etc. My own model looks vasty different depending on lighting. You could go with a monotone scheme that looked like the ship did on TV and it would be quite nice.


I've been considering going that way.

The original f/x (not the filming miniature but the resultant, onscreen shots) didn't really show the green at all.

If anything, it appears a slightly different shade of grey and/or that it was hit with strong lighting from the underside.

I know that's not what really was going on and that it was indeed that light shade of green,

but it really wasn't noticible on TV in the original f/x.

BTWay, your build still looks gorgous!

I especially like the last shot, lit and angled the way it
appeared on TV with the star backround.

Beautiful! :thumbsup:


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

SteveR said:


> If it were me, I'd spray it neutral grey then spray thinned coats of the field green and violet until they looked like complementing shades of grey ... hoping for the result that military modellers get on their work: tints of one colour.


If I use the green at all I'll probably try to match a subdued version of what was on the filming miniature.

The process you're recommending sounds like a good way to achieve that.

Thanks! :thumbsup:


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## KUROK (Feb 2, 2004)

Krylon Celery is much lighter than Jade and has been tagged as a good match of something off-the-shelf for use on the grey/green hull color.


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

I have heard of the "Celery" paint but have never seen it. It's in their gloss range, though. Based on photos online of the can/cap, it looks similar to the satin "Pistachio". Both are much lighter than Jade.

Of course we get into the issue of how colors look online or in a photo. Several online color samples for Celery look quite different with some being very green and some being a grey with a slight greenish tinge. The greyish version is not, what I would call "celery" myself, although the greenish interpretation is ok.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

KUROK said:


> Krylon Celery is much lighter than Jade and has been tagged as a good match of something off-the-shelf for use on the grey/green hull color.


Thanks. Looks like I have Celery and Pistachio to consider.

If I go the route of the green & grey color scheme it will most likely be with something off the shelf, so that info helps.

While I really don't like the green, another reason for my* perhaps *going with the original two-tone color scheme is that, as on the original, the Capt Cardboard model has decals for windows.

I know non-trek fans are going to ask about that, and if I build her with the same paint scheme I'll be able to honestly say "that's the way the actual model was built."


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

Okay, found a MemoryAlpha list of TOS D-7 appearances:

TOS: (7)
"Errand of Mercy" (2007 remastered version)
"Friday's Child" (2006 remastered version)
"The Trouble with Tribbles" (2006 remastered version)
"A Private Little War" (2008 remastered version)
"Elaan of Troyius"
"The Enterprise Incident"
"Day of the Dove"

I'm not sure why the last three don't have any remastered comments.
Maybe the remastered versions don't include them, don't do so prominently,
or maybe this list was written at a time when the remastered versions were
still being released one at a time on broadcast TV.


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

I used window decals on my kit (except for the ones I drilled out)


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

Chuck_P.R. said:


> Okay, found a MemoryAlpha list of TOS D-7 appearances:
> 
> TOS: (7)
> "Errand of Mercy" (2007 remastered version)
> ...


I think the last 3 were the only shows with the Battle Cruiser in the first place? The model was not even built until season 3. The remastered stuff inserted it into episodes where it was not originally used. Likewise the Romulan Bird of Prey now appears in Enterprise Incident although it was not in the original version.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

Wow. 

I just went through the remastered shows that have the D-7 in it.

The one with the greatest amount of screen time and detail is
Elaan of Troyius.

Starting at about 45:30 there are a ton of great shots and angles.

The paint scheme seems to be a simple grey. 
Looks like the same color throughout, though there is some weathering, etc.

However, although the CGI looks to be of good quality
(at least at regular def, the only version I have at hand right now)

I was very surprised.

They left off major details, yet added a minor one!!! :freak:

There is no grill work or raised diamond sections on the last part of the "wings" that connect to the nacelles.

Neither is there any Klingon language markings, either next to the portside triangular pennant, 
nor on the port and starboard parts that are totally missing the grillwork!!!!
(grillwork that surrounds the raised diamond shape, not the grillwork erroneously added by AMT in their kits)

Not only that, it's not as if this was the first appearance of the D-7.
In terms of production order, Elaan of Troyius was the 5th of the 7 remastered episodes in which the D-7 appeared!!!

On top of missing major features present on the original filming miniature,
they not only added lighted impulse engines,

but they added raised Franz Joseph style phaser "bumps" that only ever appeared in McMaster's blueprints.

Major grillwork and raised features missing, yet adding phaser banks?

What's up with that?

They seem to have spent a lot of time to texture the model convincingly, 
yet left off details that anyone who has ever even seen the AMT model knows about!

Wow.

It's the second most iconic TOS Trek spacecraft.
One that has been produced as a kit for decades.
Yet the CBS remastering staff missed a gigantically
major detail and markings!!!

Yet added another detail that only ever existed in
fan produced blueprints! :freak:

How do you know about a detail from fan produced blueprints,
yet totally miss major features and markings?


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## KUROK (Feb 2, 2004)

I thought the CGI model of the D-7 was bad.
First of all the windows were too big which made the ship look small.
Also, the bulb part at the front of the ship looked weird because you could see the CGI frame panels...at least I could on blu-ray. Perhaps this was to show the ship was made of metal panels but it just looked crappy to me.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

KUROK said:


> I thought the CGI model of the D-7 was bad.
> First of all the windows were too big which made the ship look small.
> Also, the bulb part at the front of the ship looked weird because you could see the CGI frame panels...at least I could on blu-ray. Perhaps this was to show the ship was made of metal panels but it just looked crappy to me.


I was tempted to download Elaan of Troyius in high def from iTunes,
but I suspected that it would only look worse, not better, in high def.

I didn't notice the windows size issue, but I was wondering why they 
chose to do those windows versus the ones represented on the filming
miniature as decals.

The color scheme looked more realistic then the filming miniature's, 
though it was a little bland.

My main confusion with their CGI version is how someone who knows 
enough about the ship and fandom to chose to add a fan-blueprinted
feature - yet leave off a couple of really major features.

I don't see how it could have been a rush job, considering it was the 5th
time out of 7 the model appeared.

The only explanation I can come up with is they never intended to show
those parts of the ship that the details are missing from, but somehow messed up and did it anyway.

Seems a bit lazy to me. Definitely a sloppy job to let huge unfinished chunks of the ship be seen onscreen.


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## Jafo (Apr 22, 2005)

"Yet added another detail that only ever existed in fan produced blueprints! "
Reminds me of why people think the enterprise bridge sits on an angle instead of front faceing all because of the Franz Joseph book.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

Jafo said:


> "Yet added another detail that only ever existed in fan produced blueprints! "
> Reminds me of why people think the enterprise bridge sits on an angle instead of front faceing all because of the Franz Joseph book.


Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!

I really wish you hadn't made that analogy. :freak:

I can only hope this track you've switched us onto is safe and unoccupied, and that we'll be able to get back on the main line without incident. :drunk:


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

I don't know why people think the CGI is good or of any particular interest. I think its pretty crappy myself. It doesn't offer any insight into anything from ST TOS really. The only reason I have the versions with the new effects is that they are on the Blu Ray discs (the only way you can get the original effects currently).


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## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

I painted my D7 uising a two tone paint scheme but toned it down with an overspray of thinned Light Ghost Grey before weathering:




Depending on the angle and the lighting it looks grey on camera:



So if you think the two tone scheme is too stark just give it a thinned grey overcoat to achieve a more subtle paintscheme.


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

As always another great model.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

djnick66 said:


> I don't know why people think the CGI is good or of any particular interest. I think its pretty crappy myself. It doesn't offer any insight into anything from ST TOS really. The only reason I have the versions with the new effects is that they are on the Blu Ray discs (the only way you can get the original effects currently).


The blu-ray disks come with the original effects in high def too?

Might be worth the investment then!


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

Trekkriffic said:


> I painted my D7 uising a two tone paint scheme but toned it down with an overspray of thinned Light Ghost Grey before weathering:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That is a beautiful two-tone scheme!

Do you might sharing the colors you used for the green?

What did you use for the darker grey?

It looks like there is a hint of violet hue in there that looks fantastic!

You and djnick66's builds are starting to turn me around on the 
two-tone scheme.

The thinned grey overcoat looks great!


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## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

Chuck,

I used the formulas recommended by Custom Replicas.

All are Model Master enamels.

For the lighter green colors on the triangular shapes on either side at the base of the neck, the command pod and the command structures above the angular shaped deck above it I used:
30% Pale Green/10% Bright Blue/60% Flat White

For the darker green of the neck, secondary hull and nacelles I used:
40% Pale Green/10% Bright Blue/50% Flat White

For the upper hull surfaces I used:
50% Intermediate Blue/50% Flat White

These formulas were for a 1/350 scale model so I did add a little more white than they suggested based on the smaller scale of this kit. 

All overshot with thinned Light Ghost Grey. The green has a blusih tint to it which I like. I did not use any shades of violet. 

Steve J.


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

Chuck_P.R. said:


> The blu-ray disks come with the original effects in high def too?
> 
> Might be worth the investment then!


The DVD sets out now only include the new CGI versions. The Blu Ray sets have both the original effects and the new effects. It also has the unaired versions of the two pilots.


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## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

If you're looking for a good, straight-out-of-the-rattle-can alternative, *Rust-oleum Sea Foam Green* is an extremely close match to the aforementioned Jim Key formula.

Similarly, Tamiya Neutral Gray would work beautifully for the gray areas.

I'm always a little surprised when modelers balk at unusual hull colors like those found on the D-7 or Vulcan Shuttle FX miniatures (for example). To my way of thinking the unexpected color choices distinguish the subjects in question from all the other gray-hulled spaceships out there. The Klingon Cruiser is a unique and unusual design, and it's fitting that it should sport a distinctive finish.

At least, that's my own take on the matter. Goodness knows a modeler should piaint his model whatever color he sees fit.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

Carson Dyle said:


> If you're looking for a good, straight-out-of-the-rattle-can alternative, *Rust-oleum Sea Foam Green* is an extremely close match to the aforementioned Jim Key formula.
> 
> Similarly, Tamiya Neutral Gray would work beautifully for the gray areas.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info!

You're a treasure trove of knowledge as usual.

Has anyone ever confirmed the slight purplish tint to the grey seen in the one pic that seems to show it?


On the subject of colors, I don't have a problem with unusual color schemes, it's just that particular shade of green bugs me a bit.

I can't begin to explain why.


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## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

Chuck_P.R. said:


> Has anyone ever confirmed the slight purplish tint to the grey seen in the one pic that seems to show it?


Any purplish tint to the grey is due to ambient lighting conditions.

One of the surviving D-7 miniatures used to be on display at the Sci-Fi museum in Seattle. When I saw the model the finish was as described above (sea foam green and neutral grey), but since there was a big, red light in the room the neutral grey finish displayed a purple cast in the pix I took. 

There is ZERO evidence to support assertions that the D-7 FX miniatures ever sported a purple grey finish. Those who believe this to be the case have been duped by nothing more nor less than a trick of the light.

That said, if you dig a purple battle cruiser then, by all means, go to town!


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

There were only two original miniatures. The one that was actually used for filming was badly repainted by/at/for the Smithsonian. The other, which was owned by Gene Roddenberry, was auctioned off some time back and has IIRC disappeared from public light. 

I don't think anyone ever claimed the miniature was PURPLE only that the grey has a purplish tinge. Note that one of the recommended colors, Neutral Grey, can have a purple tinge.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

Carson Dyle said:


> Any purplish tint to the grey is due to ambient lighting conditions.
> 
> One of the surviving D-7 miniatures used to be on display at the Sci-Fi museum in Seattle. When I saw the model the finish was as described above (sea foam green and neutral grey), but since there was a big, red light in the room the neutral grey finish displayed a purple cast in the pix I took.
> 
> ...


Since I've only seen one pic that was supposedly of an unretouched filming miniature that sported the darker-blue-with-purplish-tint look,

I highly suspected some type of lighting issue to be the culprit.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

djnick66 said:


> There were only two original miniatures. The one that was actually used for filming was badly repainted by/at/for the Smithsonian. The other, which was owned by Gene Roddenberry, was auctioned off some time back and has IIRC disappeared from public light.
> 
> I don't think anyone ever claimed the miniature was PURPLE only that the grey has a purplish tinge. Note that one of the recommended colors, Neutral Grey, can have a purple tinge.


Since Paul Allen owns most of what is displayed in the Sci-Fi museum, 
I'm sure that if it was presented as one of the two filming miniatures it was genuine. 
I don't know if he was the one who bought it at auction, 
but if not I'm sure he's familiar with whoever did. 
So I'm not surprised it was on display there.
If he doesn't own it, I'm sure it wouldn't take him
much discussion to convince the owner to let him display it.

So much stuff is hidden and hoarded by private owners,
at least Paul Allen does bother to let us see stuff we wouldn't
otherwise see.

I'm glad there are people preserving these things, especially 
the Galileo 3/4 stage piece, and are willing to let the public view them as well.

I suspect that not only is that one purplish pic the source 
of the idea that the grey may have had a heavyish purple tint,

but if you have one lying around,

checkout the box art on all the original AMT Klingon kits most of us have stared at since we were kids!

Now that we are all grown up of course,
we know not to trust that artwork.

But as a kid in an era that preceeded videotape,
how many kids would know?

We've had that AMT box art burned into our brains
for decades now. Not just the colors of the hull that is
in the artwork of the ship itself, but the big ole'
honking purple boarders around the artwork are 
purple! Perhaps subconsciously affecting our 
perception even if we know as adults there was 
no heavy purplish tint.


Also on the subject of the tint, on the last couple
of cameras I've owned I've always kept a circular
polarizing filter screwed over the lens at all times.

My personal choice is blue, but some people like to
use warming - red tinted - polarizing filters too.

The slight tint usually doesn't throw the colors off
too terribly, increases the contrast, makes the colors pop,
and most importantly can eliminate almost all glare
just by spinning the polarizer to the proper position.

I'm not saying that that happened with the higher contrast,
purplish tint photo, 

but when I was growing up if you were into photography it
was extremely common to leave polarizing filters on your 
camera. It was commonly recommended to do so in
photography magazines and how-to manuals of the day.
Not just to reduce glare, but also as extra protection
for your lens.

Then again, even if the one purplish hued grey shot was taken
with a filter, technically that is still a lighting issue.

Psychologically, that one shot may just be reinforcing what a lot
of us remember about the AMT box art too, of course.


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

I never considered the AMT boxes at all. The kit painting instructions (if any) were poor too. 

There are shots of the surviving, unrepainted miniature taken at different times and the grey color varies a bit but to me it still has a slight warm or violet shade. Not to say that it is "purple". 

But again this gets back to the issue of do you paint your model to match the filming miniature, or paint it to look the way it appeared on screen (how it was intended to look). I think there is a lot of room here for interpretation and you can get good results using a variety of single and two tone paint schemes depending on what you want.


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