# The fate of Tyco HO



## Shadowracer

I don't know if this is actually news to anyone. I've heard on the boards that Mattel is all but dropping it's slot car line. Well, I was in Toys R Us today and found a whole whack of new Mattel Hot Wheels Electric racing sets, and they're all 1:43 scale. There was a bunch of different ones, both gimmicky and not. 

Its a darned shame, cuz they had the nicest NASCAR cars in HO scale. The Lifelike can't touch them for looks.

I wonder how this bodes for HO scale racing. WIll it make a difference? Or is the world gonna go 1:43? Or this could be Mattel putting out a glut of cheap sets just for Christmas?

What do you guys think?


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## micyou03

I have been really enjoying Artin and Carrera GO 1/43rds lately. How do the Mattel Hot Wheels 1/43rd cars look?


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## Captain Fred

I don't know what the sales numbers were like for Mattel HO, compared with other brands. In the late 80s thru early 90s TRU even carried Tomy sets. Maybe the Mattels just didn't sell as well as the LL sets. In the last few years TRU's selection of Mattel HO was pretty poor compared to the LL, which featured more of the popular NASCAR cars. I haven't seen a Tyco/Mattel NASCAR set in over a few years. I haven't seen a Tyco/Mattel HO train set in many years. I know we used to carry those too, along with Bachman. Maybe TRU was just not ordering as many of the Mattel sets. Profit margin has a lot to do with it I'm sure. I know from working in a store that they always try to push the items with the highest markup. Returns may have had some effect on what they ordered too. During my many years working at the TRU warehouse, it seemed like we always got most of the slotcar sets back after the holidays, along with lots of the HO train sets. Mattel may have done better if they had tried to market their HO stuff more toward hobby shops.


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## Shadowracer

micyou03 said:


> I have been really enjoying Artin and Carrera GO 1/43rds lately. How do the Mattel Hot Wheels 1/43rd cars look?


Well, half the sets have kid-type Spiderman/Doc Ock, or futuristic looking stuff. The rest I can't say. I don't know much about 1:43 so I can't say how they stack up. There was a pile of Artin/Fast Lane sets too, and my memory can't sort out which were Mattel and which weren't. I know I saw F1 cars and Euro Rally type cars, but it's hard to say just by the picture on the box.


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## micyou03

Thanks Shadowrader. I guess I will check them out after Christmas.


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## AfxToo

I too hope someone takes over the Tyco product line. It's clearly superior to the current line of Lifelike products.

HO has been around for over 40 years. I think that 1:32 has been around nearly as long. I don't see either of these historically significant and long lasting icons going away any time soon. The level of aftermarket support outside of the major set manufacturers is very strong for both of these scales. Slot cars as a whole will probably become even more of a niche hobby but that's just the nature of hobbies in general. Once they fall from the ranks of mass merchandising they become a niche hobby or simply disappear. HO hasn't disappeared and neither has 1:32 or 1:24. I remember 1:32 scale being "on the ropes" in the early 1970s and today it's probably the strongest in worldwide sales. 

In my opinion the 1:43 scale is much more like likely to fall by the wayside despite its current level of focus and distribution in somewhat offbeat mass merchandising sales channels. The primary attribute that 1:43 has going for it is its "tweener" size, midway between HO and 1:32. It provides some of the attributes of 1:32 like modeling detail while conserving space like HO. But in terms of longevity and availability of aftermarket products and accessories 1:43 is still the odd scale out. If you're a serious hobbyist or collector and you are looking to go upscale from HO and want to tap into a very large and diverse product market then 1:32 is clearly a more fruitful scale to tap into. If slot car history is an indicator of the future, all of the scales will survive even though the size of the entire slot car market continues to shrink.

As far as what's being sold in TRU and other big stores goes, they carry whatever they can sell at a profit. They don't really give a hoot about the specifics of the product as long as it sells and the returns are not unreasonable. You have to remember that we are all hard core slot heads and think nothing of tweaking tracks and cars to make them work better or perform routine maintenance. Having to replace worn out pickup shoes or oil a squeaky arm is a really big deal for a lot of folks. If the sets are dirt cheap the Moms and Dads out there can accept throwing the set in a closet and selling it next summer in a yard sale. If it costs more than a few bucks they'll bring it back to the store. In my opinion, selling slot car sets in mass merchandising channels is a recipe for disaster unless the cost to the store is insanely low. The sets you see out there in TRU and Bed Bath & Beyond (hee hee hee) must be dirt cheap for the store to obtain in order to deal with the returns. Hobby stores should on the other hand expect to cater to consumers who expect they'll have to get into much more detail about what they are buying. Unfortunately too many current hobby stores have taken on the toy store approach or have to compete against the toy stores. 

In my opinion the worst possible scenario is to sell slot car sets in toy stores or home decorating outlets. Number one, it sets an unrealistic expectation for consumers about the product being sold by a retailer who is in a position to provide zero levels of product support. Number two, it forces hobby stores to cost compete against mega retailers who are selling the same products for less, even though the hobby store can provide full product support. Of course there are those of us who can benefit financially from this scenario, but in terms of the long term health of the hobby, that slot car set you see being sold alongside shower curtains and oven mitts is a cancer on the hobby.


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## TX Street Racer

AfxToo said:


> HO has been around for over 40 years. I think that 1:32 has been around nearly as long. I don't see either of these historically significant and long lasting icons going away any time soon. The level of aftermarket support outside of the major set manufacturers is very strong for both of these scales. Slot cars as a whole will probably become even more of a niche hobby but that's just the nature of hobbies in general. Once they fall from the ranks of mass merchandising they become a niche hobby or simply disappear. HO hasn't disappeared and neither has 1:32 or 1:24. I remember 1:32 scale being "on the ropes" in the early 1970s and today it's probably the strongest in worldwide sales.
> 
> In my opinion the 1:43 scale is much more like likely to fall by the wayside despite its current level of focus and distribution in somewhat offbeat mass merchandising sales channels. The primary attribute that 1:43 has going for it is its "tweener" size, midway between HO and 1:32. It provides some of the attributes of 1:32 like modeling detail while conserving space like HO. But in terms of longevity and availability of aftermarket products and accessories 1:43 is still the odd scale out. If you're a serious hobbyist or collector and you are looking to go upscale from HO and want to tap into a very large and diverse product market then 1:32 is clearly a more fruitful scale to tap into. If slot car history is an indicator of the future, all of the scales will survive even though the size of the entire slot car market continues to shrink.
> 
> I too hope someone takes over the Tyco product line. It's clearly superior to the current line of Lifelike products.


I agree with your thoughts and ideas man..... I've been growing more fond of 1/32 scale slots lately.....ever since I had a chance to really do some experimenting and racing hands on with the scale I can't seem to get my focus off of it. The incredible amount of detail,amount of various brands,styles, and liveries of cars produced is astounding to say the least in 1/32 scale. There are tons and tons of aftermarket parts companies producing some really great priced motors,wheels and other parts for 1/32. 

In my opinion.....even though most of the 1/32 cars average say $30-$50 per car.......for the level of detail,speed,quality, and aftermarket parts availability and pricing 1/32 scale slots can't be touched. I know that's a bold statement...and alot of my friends here may find that a treasonous statement.....but that's my honest feelings about 1/32 scale......after having been greatly exposed to it within the last couple of months. 

1/32 scale slot car racing is growing in appreciation, and public awareness at an incredible speed. I've been to my local 1/32 slot shop (an hour and a half drive for me) for the last 3 weeks in a row. Every time I'm in there I see families and people coming in off the street, renting cars to race....and also deciding to make the plunge into 1/32 scale racing. Just this past Saturday I saw one guy buy $700 worth of stuff....and 3-4 other people spend at lest $100 a pop..... so people are coming to this scale by the droves...at least in my area. 

How does this relate to HO? well, I'm not quite sure. I love HO slots....always have...always will....as you guys know I love doing HO customs........but, once you start messing with 1/32 slots the level of detailing and work that you can acheive on 1/32 is far greater than could ever be attempted with HO.

I don't want to see the glorious Tyco slot car name end up like this with Mattel just burying the line...... I loved Tyco slots growing up.....if it wasn't for Tyco slot cars and having played with them as a kid I wouldn't be here now.....as a 28 year old "kid" playing once again with slot cars. :jest:


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## ParkRNDL

Captain Fred said:


> I haven't seen a Tyco/Mattel NASCAR set in over a few years.


Our local KMart had Mattel NASCAR sets last Christmas. All I remember is that the set had a banked curve in it (I was tempted to buy it for that reason) and that one of the cars was black and yellow. Also last Christmas, or maybe the Christmas before, our TRU had a Jurassic Park set (which I just picked up at Salvation Army for $8), and maybe a little figure-8 with two glow-in-the-dark Corvettes. More recently they had a Battle Slam set, which I got as a returned item at TRU a few months ago for $15--the moron who bought it had completely stripped the gears on the maroon "car". A year or two before that, I got the Toy Story set at Christmas at Ollies, our local Odd-Lot-type discount outlet.

So that makes 4 Mattel/Tyco sets I've seen at retail and one at a discount outlet in the last 3 or 4 years. Sad. I remember the days when you could walk into TRU at any time, Christmas or not, and find 4 or 5 different sets each from Tyco and AFX on the shelves... and there was a little rack of cars sold separately too, including ones by Amrac/Rokar...

--rick


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## dlw

*Tyco/Mattel*

A shame though.....Mattel does one improvement to the brand, bettering the electrical contact, but doesn't do the important things: Using more of the Hot Wheels body molds for the slots. Who out there wouldn't love to see an Olds 442, Dodge Deora, Boss Mustang, or any of their bodies on a Tyco chassis. Mattel had a gold mine in their hands.

The other thing was not remaking the 6" curves, also a 1/8 6" curve, and bringing 15" curves of their own. Though the slot isn't as deep, these additions would've kept Tyco/Mattel on par with Tomy.

You know...now that Mattel has dropped the HO track, maybe RC2/JL can pick up this ball, and take it all the way. It has quite the following............


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## vaBcHRog

Mike, 

I bought a HotWheels set at the base for my son Charles. It had the Deloren II and some other HotWheels creation in 1/43rd. How does it Compare to Artin. The track and controllers are on par but the controllers are Thumb not trigger. The cars the bodys were good, the chassis a clone of Artins but the wheel look good but are out of round and drilled off center. The rubber has no tread but is softer but I have yet to try it on an Artin.


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## vaBcHRog

I disagree with AfxToo that if anything goes by the Wayside it will be 1/43rd.

My reasoning is that these sets are sold as Toys and evidence that the market must be growing is not only HotWheels moving to 1/43rd but also that there are two other companies making 1/43rd sets besides Artin producing sets.

The quality of the Artin Cars is very good at this time and the price is right $6.00 for a complete car. Artin now has several new wheel styles on their cars. Now there is no after market parts but they will come you have HO racers moving to 1/43rd and 1/32nd racers moving also. For some its the price and others its the size. For me the size due to my vision and the price where reasons to move. Also if you like modeling there is so much out there in 1/43rd that you can build just about any car you could want and the Artin chassi is fairly easy to modify.

My prediction is for next year for 1/43rs is:

1. There will be several new sources for silicone replacement tires for the Artin.

2. There will be new machined wheeels and tiires for Artins.

3. Someone will make an adjustable chassis for Artin cars

4. Artin's car bodies will get better looking.

5. Someone will design a wheel puller and press for Artin cars

6. NOt a prediction but a hope that Scaletrix will start making 1/43rd cars also

Roger Corrie


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## TX Street Racer

Roger ,I disagree to ap oint.....I don't see many 1/32 guys moving to 1/43 at all.......it's mostly HO guys going for that scale for the time being.....BUT, I think as soon as alot of the HO guys see 1/32 cars they will gradually move on into 1/32 scale. The reasons are simple.....while alot of folks like Artin cars.....they still lack alot to become a top performing slot car.....when compared to 99% of the 1/32 stuff. Artin cars are cheap....for a reason...they are cheap......as in toy like cheap. 

I also don't see much modeling potential for 1/43 scale...like there is for 1/32. They are so small still.....that most if not all 1/43 have blacked out windows....no chance for full interiors.....unlike 1/32.

I'm not saying that the 1/43 cars can't be fun to run.....just stating the obvious that they are toys......and wouldn't want to have anyone thinking that they were something to look forward to seeing race in a circuit....or have a bunch of aftermarket parts available anytime soon.


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## JordanZ870

All of you gentlemen have great points here. I am also saddened by the demise of tyco./hotwheels.
Hotwheels has several 1/43 oval and eights in my area (mn) sold in retail chains (target sears ect as well as the hobby shops) and they are* sold as toys. The sets are small and cheap. I have been tempted to buy 4 or 5 to get a decent size layout and then have several bodies to customize and chassis to do some diecat or others on. But...I feel guilty...about "betraying" the ho scale. besides...I only have room for one layout. I have a huge amount of micromachine track (much narrower than ho) and have no place to set it up. My dream has been to create scenery and a perminant layout. I have a new home and a nice sized dedicated space to do it. My table is built and my sons and I have been having a blast with it. I have a 4 lane setup, complete with a double ho scale train crossing running through it.
How can I get the diversity of ho in the bigger scales?

I have seen bikes w/sidecars in the bigger stuff and many other unique and cool stuff that I would love to run...but...besides the money cost, what else will I lose, have to deal with,?
just my buck and a quarter worth..
Damn you HOTWHEELS/MATEL! *sigh*  
joez870


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## AfxToo

The original question was "Or is the world gonna go to 1:43?" and my opinion is that the answer is no. I think 1:43 will just be another scale that will grab a slice of the slot car pie but it won't eliminate any of the other scales. I can see (with aging eyes) why some people would move from HO to 1:43 but I would never make the move and don't expect a mass exodus from HO to 1:43 any time soon, or ever. The only reasons I see 1:43 being the most vulnerable are 1) it is being promoted and sold as a cheap toy, 2) slot car sets in mass market retail stores have high return rates, and 3) it doesn't have the legacy and support of diehard collectors and enthusiasts. Any of these factors can change and the outcome for 1:43 could be very bright. The 1:43 cars and track do seem more substantial from a kid-proof perspective than comparably priced HO cars and track. Maybe the return rates will be lower. As more aftermarket support for 1:43 comes along it may develop a community of hardcore collectors and enthusiasts. We'll have to wait and see. It's a tough market to be in. 

The scale with the most promise seems to be 1:32. In the USA at least there is a continous trend to biggie size everything. Last generation's kids who grew up with a family of 6 in an 1100 square foot home think nothing of demanding a 4200 square foot home for a family of 3. Should they have more than one kid and a dog it's time for the 5000-6000 square footer with a 4 car garage. At least everywhere that I've lived, 7 different states, you see little other than massive new homes being built. Making room for a 120 foot 1:32 scale layout is not that much of a stretch. Plus, the 1:32 cars are absolutely incredible even as static models. If I were looking at another scale it would be to add another scale, 1:32 in particular, while still staying with the HO scale. You can have both.


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## vaBcHRog

Only time will tell. 

I still think 1/32 is too big for a lot of people in the south with no basements.

However if and this is a big if, IF the digital tracks work easily, and reliably and races can be held with 6 racers at a time and the fun factor stays up there I might try 1/32 scale. I am looking into 1/32 scale migets as they would be raceable on my Low banked oval and also I want to look at 1/32 Legends cars.

Roger Corrie


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## boss9

I like slot cars—period. 
My take on this is you have to factor in the present time, present availability, and the general public’s views. I think a lot of the old hobbyist’s stay with the Ho stuff because that’s what was most prominent when they were growing up.
The larger scales didn’t really take off until the mid-sixties, and then, there was a huge interest in 1/24th scale with tracks popping up all over the place and a huge movement in California. As that generation grew into mini-bikes and such, their interest waned and it all started drying up. The last large-scale race shop I recall closed its doors around 1972—quite late considering. 

1/32nd has always had a large following in Europe with a tremendous amount of spares available. I think the newer 1/48th scale racing has a chance to expand and improve, but in my opinion, will probably stay as a toy related hobby, with the chance of coming in the mainstream only if someone like Mattel decides to flood the market with them and offers up options to add to the sets. I just don’t see Mattel stepping up to that challenge. Even if they did, the older more experienced racers would most likely just move up to 1/32nd because of the options already available. 

Ho racing today is more of a continuum of the childhood hobby that has flourished into sanctioned racing and reliving the memories of cars they had in the past by re-collecting them today. That is what JL markets their slots as. It is still a small-scale hobby compared to say RC. 

If I were just coming into the hobby for the first time now, I would most definitely go with 1/32nd scale because of the quality and the availability of what’s offered. All in all, every bit of this hobby is just that—a hobby. Parents will continue buying kids whatever is on sale, the kids will play with them till’ they brake them or get bored, or mature up to something else. Hobbyists and racers will stay in the hobby by their own choice- and only that. 1/24th’s had their day in the sun, Ho’s had their chance and dropped the ball, and now 1/32nd is making in-roads slowly with little or no advertising and no national exposure. 1/48th has a shot, but it a long a tedious haul on a bumpy track. If they continue to market their items to parents with kids, I believe they will prosper just the same.

The big disappointment for me is that Mattel would rather spend extreme amounts of R&D time to market die-casts, and giving virtually, only a second glance at their newly acquired slot-car line. They started off well enough, with a few sets, some new bodies, and some old Tyco cars they dressed up, but failed to market them fully to the right audience. If they pulled a JL and really started re-releasing many of the old Tyco cars, they would be pleasantly surprised at their profit margins. Instead, they decided to just quietly faze the whole line out. And knowing Mattel, the will never release the rights or authorization to anyone to allow anything resembling their products to see the light of day. A terrible shame.

Tyco’s slot-car racing line—R.I.P.  

Cheers..


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## AfxToo

If I had the space I'd have a 1:24 track in addition to HO and run 1:24 and 1:32 cars on it. I don't see there being any competition between the scales. Each one has something special to offer. With HO it's always been about how much racing you can get in a small space. That's how Aurora marketed it originally and it's still true today. A scale mile HO track is, depending on your definition of HO, between 70 and 80 feet. The larger scales have a more realistic appearing car, and if you have the real estate, a more realistic racing experience. I love the way it feels to run a 1:32 car without traction magnets on a larger track. You really "feel" the weight of the entire car and have to build up momentum to make your move. But with the larger scales unless you have way more than 100 ft of track it's like running F1 or NASCAR on a go kart track. But hey that's no big deal since it's a model and not reality. In any case, there's plenty of room in the hobby for more than one scale and the emergence of one scale doesn't mean an existing one will go away.


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## micyou03

TX Street Racer said:


> Roger ,I disagree to ap oint.....I don't see many 1/32 guys moving to 1/43 at all.......it's mostly HO guys going for that scale for the time being.....



I've bought Carrera Go 1/43rd slot cars from two different hobby stores, one in CT the other in NJ and they both told me that their 1/32nd customers are buying the Carrera Go 1/43rds and are enjoying them. The 1/32nd customers also buy the 1/43rd cars for their kids to run. They also told me that they were selling many 1/43rd sets since they put them out for the holidays.

Also when I went to Tuesday Morning (a discount department store) the day they put the Carrera Go Mini Cooper set went on sale. I got there at noon and they open at 7:00 AM and I asked how they were selling and they told me they sold 15 already.

So, 1/43rd is selling. I really hope it does well and they start making cars with the detail of the 1/32nd cars.

I have run HO, 1/32nd 1/24th and now 1/43rd and as far as what chassis I enjoy running the most: first is my Parma 1/24 Flexi 16D and next is my Artin 1/43rds, and third is JLTOs HO.

The Artin chassis run excellent and slide really well when used with a regulated power source. With a good power source they do not feel like toys to me. However when I first ran them with their own walwart power supply they did feel like toys.


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## A/FX Nut

Last Christmas Tyco/Mattel had a Dale Jr. and Michael Waltrip race set that KMart and TRU sold. As for this HO Scale enthusaist I'm staying with HO. I like the other scales except I'm not really excited by 1/43. It's good to see it growing though. I think HO Scale has more resale value and it takes up the least amount of space. I can't afford to get into the other scales and if I could I don't have the desire to. 1/32 has some very beautiful and highly detailed cars though. I hate to see TYCO dissappear. But someone with the money backing them may get the rights to it and keep it going. Someone mentioned with the Hot Wheels cars Mattel has and the TYCO line they are missing a chance to maybe cash in. I agree and find hard to believe someone at Mattel hasn't put 1 and 1 together and done something.


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## Shadowracer

micyou03 said:


> I have been really enjoying Artin and Carrera GO 1/43rds lately. How do the Mattel Hot Wheels 1/43rd cars look?


Hello again. I had to go back there today to finish my shopping, and took a closer look at the race sets. They had three HotWheels sets. One was a basic kids figure 8 with some far out futuristic cars. The second had a little more track with some loop d loops, and the cars were a straight Toyota Supra and its Honda counterpart. Both cars looked a little cartoony. The third set was a F1 set, and the cars actually looked not bad. (Although its apparent that being true to scale is not a priority) The F1 set looked a little more like a premium set, with enough normal track for a couple different layouts with none of the gimmicky track pieces. It retailed for 99.99 CDN (approx $60-70 US)

ALso interesting to note that the F1 set was the only one that had a wall plug. The others were battery operated and much cheaper.

That is all.
Trev


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## micyou03

Thanks for the info Trev, I've seen the F1 set on ebay for about $60 USD. I only need the cars so oh well, I will do withut for now.o


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## noddaz

I may be mistaken...
But I think that the Mattel 1/43 sets are probably manufactured by Artin.
In the pictures on the boxes the track looks very simular.
And as for Mattel killing their HO slots, who knows...
Tom Lowe is still in charge over at JL even if RC2 owns it...
Scott


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## vaBcHRog

Does anyone know who bought LifeLIke. I heard a new company snapped them up.

Roger Corrie


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## AfxToo

Life-Like was bought out by a capital investment firm called American-Capital in June of this year. This was done to resell the company and they've been trying to sell it off since then. I haven't heard of a buyer yet. If the Shrink Works has $71M laying around in its war chest --- Life-Like could be yours. 

Life-Like did an acquisition in mid December, buying a plastics company called Tech Pak, which has no real ties to the hobby industry.


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## 00'HO

Screw Tyco/Mattel, with Tomy AFX's new 18" curves and their 3" hairpin turn you can make 12 lanes! Yes Tyco had it going on with their NASCAR look,but were lacking in accessories. Thank NASCAR for their greedy Licensing fees!
In the good old days it appeared sponsers were not a problem to gain advertising space on the slot cars. Such as STP, Wrangler, Skoal. As for 1/43 scale, yuck!
Want the NASCAR look, get decals and do it yourself. That's part of the hobby.


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## AfxToo

The Tyco 440-X2 chassis is worth saving. In my opinion it's the small block Chevy of magnet cars. Two out of three of the current top shelf magnet car chassis share at least some lineage with the 440-X2. I hope someone picks up the 440-X2 chassis and does some worthy bodies for it


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## TX Street Racer

AfxToo said:


> The Tyco 440-X2 chassis is worth saving. In my opinion it's the small block Chevy of magnet cars. Two out of three of the current top shelf magnet car chassis share at least some lineage with the 440-X2. I hope someone picks up the 440-X2 chassis and does some worthy bodies for it



You got that right.....in my opinion.....The Tyco 440 chassis is the most durable chassis ever made.........it'll take a beating over and over...and STILL keep running.

00'HO , I'm sorry you feel the way you do about Tyco/Mattel ......but you should consider all of the accomplishments that Tyco has given to HO slot cars thru the years.....


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## WesJY

I agree everything that afxtoo and TX said about tyco. Tyco made the best 440x2 chassis , they made the best looking nascar bodies and another good stuff about them. Its sad to see them go. I am still tyco guy and still collects tyco cars. I still have some old tyco 440x2 chassis that I have been running over and over and over.. all i had to do is replace pick up shoes and race it again. Tyco were all about quality. :thumbsup:

Wes


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## A/FX Nut

OO'HO it wasn't so much about NASCAR licensing fees but rather the driver's fees. At the 2003 Lightning Fest I showed a JL Road Runner car that I put Petty decals on to a representive from Playingmantis and suggested they produce them. The rep from PL said they would, but Petty wanted 20%. The drivers and their race teams are wanting more of the pie. I agree with AFX TOO. The 440X2 shouldn't fall by the wayside. It's a good chassis and I like it for our Super Stock class.


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## lenny

Isn't it true that Mattel didn't really want to get in slots in the first place, that the Tyco line was bought along with Matchbox?? The fact that they have done precious little with Tyco should indicate to you what their level of interest is in the slot business. Which is really a shame because with Mattels licenses, they could have pumped out some really cool products. And a little attention to the chassis and they're back in the ball game.


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## lenny

noddaz said:


> I may be mistaken...
> But I think that the Mattel 1/43 sets are probably manufactured by Artin.
> In the pictures on the boxes the track looks very simular.
> And as for Mattel killing their HO slots, who knows...
> Tom Lowe is still in charge over at JL even if RC2 owns it...
> Scott


It could also be Childford (sounds English, but it's in Hong Kong), the same company that makes the JL slots...


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## vaBcHRog

The HOtWheels are Artin clones but not Artins The track is very close to being identical bit its not thesame with the cars which lack the quality of the Artins. The Artin chassis, axle, wheels, tires and gears are very good and the quality shows. 

Roger Corrie


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## ParkRNDL

lenny said:


> It could also be Childford (sounds English, but it's in Hong Kong), the same company that makes the JL slots...


 Childford?!? Hmmmm... I've wondered for a long time who made them, since I've always wondered: if PM (or now RC2) decided to drop the slot car line, would some little independent be able to buy it? Or at least, if enough independents like body casters and hobby shops who cater to slot guys were interested, would they (or could they) continue to produce the chassis for sale through other venues?

I'm starting to get attached to the JL chassis... I have one under my green '62 Bel Air with skinny Tjet rims and short axles and a 9-tooth pinion. The more laps I put on it, the more it runs just like a Tjet...

sorry to hijack the thread... guess this can be about the future of other slot makers too...

--rick


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## lenny

ParkRNDL said:


> Childford?!? Hmmmm... I've wondered for a long time who made them, since I've always wondered: if PM (or now RC2) decided to drop the slot car line, would some little independent be able to buy it? Or at least, if enough independents like body casters and hobby shops who cater to slot guys were interested, would they (or could they) continue to produce the chassis for sale through other venues?
> 
> --rick


Childford also produces some of the lower end Carrera stuff...

They're not the best to deal with... Trust me... And the start up costs involved with producing the chassis/body/AFX style case are high.

Why even try to produce the chassis, JL has literally produced hundreds of thousands of these and they can be had readily for $3 to $4 each from eBay







. 
Childford won't just reproduce the JL chassis for you without charging you molding charges again, it's technically JL's property. They'll also have to mold new wheels, so there's another chassis related molding charge. And don't even think about molding a Cragar wheel, JL actually has exclusive rights to Cragar.

So after you go through paying for the chassis molds, you'll need to have them run some prototypes. They don't do it for free and every time you go back with a change, there's some type of fee involved. Not to mention that you'll need to debug the little bastages. Model Motoring apparently skipped this step with their chassis and now they're sitting on a pile of junk... 

And if you want to package it in that cute little AFX style box, there's a molding charge for that also, between $4000 and $5000 if I remember right. And let's not forget about the Minimum Order Quantity (MOQ), which is actually calculated at how many slot cars they can put in a container (or possibly half container) and ship on a boat, so that works out to be tens of thousands...

By the time you get to production on the chassis alone, you could easily have $10,000 to $15,000 (or more) in molding fees, another two/three/four thousand in test shots plus the chassis will run $2 apiece times say 20,000, and for what? To reproduce something that you can buy boatloads of in the states already without having to debug, arrange to ship over, clear customs and arrange freight to have delivered on your doorstep?? 

And that doesn't even address the issue of producing a body. Toss in an extra $5000 minimum for molding charges for the body shell and another $5000 to $8000 for windshield, bumpers, etc... The molding charges may seem cheap compared to trying to do this in the states, but they add up fast. And these are basic molding charges. If the body you want to produce is an unusual shape, or has what they call 'cutouts', more sophisticated molds using slides or cams need to be produced. The price shoots up quickly...


And make sure you have the licensing for the body or your investment could sit in customs forever...

Wanna make 500 of a particular body in a certain color? Forget it. Try 3000 minimum... They bend the rules for JL as far as White Thunders go, but that's an exception. 

It just doesn't make sense to duplicate the effort. As long as JL and now RC2 keep producing these, you'll have a ready supply of cheap chassis'.


----------



## noddaz

This has been a most informative thread...


----------



## sethndaddy

stinks.......tyco could repaint that nomad of theirs every month and i would buy it. maybe if they wouldn't treat slot cars as kiddy toys, and treat them as adult collectables they could turn the line around. you think someone there would actually look into this before they pull the final plug.


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## elcamino

I would buy repainted Nomads too. It's a shame, before Mattel took them over, Tyco was a very popular slot car (most popular?). They could bring back the tilt front end '57 Chevy and '55 Nomad, and the flip body funny cars like Tyco had in the '70's, put them on a 440x2 chassis and charge 30 bucks a car. I think people would buy them. I know I would.


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## Captain Fred

*the slotcar market, seen thru the eyes of an ex TRU employee:*

Unfortunately, Mattel has bigger fish to fry. TRU and most department stores aren't interested in complicated hobby stuff that is only appealing to a smaller group, has a high rate of return and can be stolen easy. 

TRU used to have a security booth in their stores, where most of the higher priced, higher risk items, such as slotcars and video games were kept. They also had a killer train and slotcar aisle. You had to pull a ticket and take it up front and pay before you would get your items like individual slot cars. At the warehouse, we had special cages built on pallets, that the slotcars and video game stuff was loaded into, locked and put on the trucks at the very last, so it was the first thing that came off at the store and went straight to the security booth. Now TRU has an automated conveyor system and the trucks are hand stacked from floor to ceiling. The video game stuff can be anywhere on board and there has been problems on and off with that stuff getting stolen, especially during the holidays when they hire a bunch of seasonal help. When we had the slotcars out on pegs on the sales floor, they were getting cut right out of their packages and stolen, just like the diecast. So now TRU doesn't even sell individual slot cars. Even the complete slotcar race sets get ripped open and the cars stolen right out of the box. It is easier to get the cars out of the Mattel/Tyco box because the cars are wrapped in tissue paper or more recently in plastic and packed right in the end of the box. 

The newer store layouts and lack of floor coverage during most of the year continues to make it easy for TRU to get ripped off. I've seen it with my own eyes. Even when you catch someone stealing, they don't want to do anything about it. TRU doesn't want to actually pay enough people to run the store properly, so they try go with toys that are more in the mainstream with less risk, cheaper cost & higher markup. They're trying to be more like Walmart.

I don't know if the smaller hobby shops have ever tried to order the slotcar stuff directly from Mattel. I would rather see stores like Hobby Lobby carry the Mattel line than the LifeLike stuff. I imagine since they are already ordering LL train sets, it is easy to get their slotcar stuff from them, as well. Tyco used to make train sets too. I don't know if they still do.

In MY opinion, it is the big retailers like TRU & WM that have helped to drive the hobby out of mainstream and into a more obscure or specialized market.


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## AfxToo

I totally agree with the Captain. I've seen plenty of Life-Like sets at Sams where someone opened the box to rip off the cars. In general I think that there is a lot more harm than good done by selling slot cars and sets at toy stores and offbeat retail channels. Slot cars require care and feeding like a lot of other hobby items and selling them as mindless toys does little more than give the slot car hobby a black eye.


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## sethndaddy

wow, sounds exactly like Home Depot, I been with Depot 10 years and they have cut back to the point its too easy for people to steal, and in 10 years I saw about 2 arrests.


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## Captain Fred

*My experience:*



sethndaddy said:


> wow, sounds exactly like Home Depot, I been with Depot 10 years and they have cut back to the point its too easy for people to steal, and in 10 years I saw about 2 arrests.


 From what I've seen, they're all over it if it looks to be an inside job. Loss prevention would come in and inspect the store with a white glove to make sure that ladders are secure and batteries are properly tagged with the little tags that set the door alarms off. Even though most people rip the items out of the packages before they smuggle them out. Management seemed scared to go after the people who came in as customers to steal. I can tell you stories about people who I've caught red handed. Other people have come in and scammed the store thru our loosely enforced return policies. I was a lower level supervisor and tried to get involved on a few occasions, but management usually backed down and did nothing about it. It's like they are affraid to offend anyone. 

During most of the year at my store, which was a busy store, you would be lucky to see 2 people on the sales floor at any given time, unless the word came down that there was a corporate big wig in town for a visit. One of those 2 or 3 people on the sales floor would also run customer pick up, the other was a backup cashier. Many times, we had to answer the phone too.
At one of the stores where I worked, the stocking crew was a joke. It was almost as if we had no stocking crew. a couple of the stockers at my last store were pretty good, but that crew was underpowered too. At least they weren't thieves, like at my first store.

When word came down that the upper echelons of management was planning a visit, they would scramble and bring in plenty of people to clean the store up and make it appear that the store was well run. Upper management didn't get to see what really went on during an average day. It's like they don't have the sense to just pop in and do a surprise visit. It's a wonder we ever really made any money. I wouldn't be surprised if they closed lots of stores if what I saw was S.O.P. at many of the other stores. I was gung ho when I first started there. Now I wouldn't be a store manager for anything.


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## Captain Fred

Sorry for the long rant about my old TRU job. I'm kinda sad about the Tyco/Mattel developements. I'm also kinda sad about TRU. They were a good company when I started there in the 80s. Over all, I had several good years with them. There are still some good people there. The last few years were frustrating though. 

Let's hope RC2 keeps their JL slotcar line going. I hope their marketing department is better than Mattel's.


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## AfxToo

You touched on a sore point for current JL resellers. The biggest concern about RC2 is it's tendency to favor selling through the big retail channels. If they start selling the JL slot cars at WallMart, TRU, and other big chains I'd expect to see an initial big spike on sales followed by a rapid descent into oblivion as these retailers back away from selling a product that they cannot support. Slot cars are distinctly different than diecast models and trying to slot cars using the same marketing approach used for diecast would be a disaster.


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## sethndaddy

I remember the good ole days of going into Kiddie City in Allentown/Whitehall, Pa. their customer service desk also served as a slot car display area. tracks and tracks filled with out of the box display cars, I think I was 8-10 years old and I would sit there and stare into that awesome display case till dad (who was into ho trains, and they were next to the slot cars)pulled by coat sleeve to leave.
I'm 37 years old, and it seems like an eternity sometimes that this happened.


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## micyou03

I remember walking about 2 miles to my local hobby store for Aurora Tuffones amd parts. The parts were all open in drawers and the owner or clerk would colect the parts I needed and put them into an envelope, tell me how much everything was and I would be on my way. I wish we could have it like that again, but without the walking.


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## ParkRNDL

Captain Fred said:


> They were a good company when I started there in the 80s.


 I miss the days when TRU's had AISLES. Have they all gone over to this weird little "department cluster" arrangement? Heck, I think I'd go out of my way just to see the last remaining holdout stores if there are any.

I also miss the days when they sold Tomy Pocket Cars, but that's one for the diecast boards... 

--rick


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## Mad Matt

Tomy pocket cars were/are awesome!!!! (You can still find new ones, usually from importers from japan)


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## Mad Matt

elcamino said:


> I would buy repainted Nomads too. It's a shame, before Mattel took them over, Tyco was a very popular slot car (most popular?). They could bring back the tilt front end '57 Chevy and '55 Nomad, and the flip body funny cars like Tyco had in the '70's, put them on a 440x2 chassis and charge 30 bucks a car. I think people would buy them. I know I would.


Amen


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## Mad Matt

Captain Fred said:


> From what I've seen, they're all over it if it looks to be an inside job. Loss prevention would come in and inspect the store with a white glove to make sure that ladders are secure and batteries are properly tagged with the little tags that set the door alarms off. Even though most people rip the items out of the packages before they smuggle them out. Management seemed scared to go after the people who came in as customers to steal. I can tell you stories about people who I've caught red handed. Other people have come in and scammed the store thru our loosely enforced return policies. I was a lower level supervisor and tried to get involved on a few occasions, but management usually backed down and did nothing about it. It's like they are affraid to offend anyone.
> 
> During most of the year at my store, which was a busy store, you would be lucky to see 2 people on the sales floor at any given time, unless the word came down that there was a corporate big wig in town for a visit. One of those 2 or 3 people on the sales floor would also run customer pick up, the other was a backup cashier. Many times, we had to answer the phone too.
> At one of the stores where I worked, the stocking crew was a joke. It was almost as if we had no stocking crew. a couple of the stockers at my last store were pretty good, but that crew was underpowered too. At least they weren't thieves, like at my first store.
> 
> When word came down that the upper echelons of management was planning a visit, they would scramble and bring in plenty of people to clean the store up and make it appear that the store was well run. Upper management didn't get to see what really went on during an average day. It's like they don't have the sense to just pop in and do a surprise visit. It's a wonder we ever really made any money. I wouldn't be surprised if they closed lots of stores if what I saw was S.O.P. at many of the other stores. I was gung ho when I first started there. Now I wouldn't be a store manager for anything.


When I worked Retail store ( a Venture Store, kinda like poor man's Target before target was around) Same deal, poor Return policy safeguards(We had people buying lawnmowers, use them during the summer, and then return them, and they would take em back!) and laws stating that people suspected of stealing cannot be Forceably returned to a lockup room or into the store, they give [email protected] criminals more rights than law abiding citizens!  So it renders security worthless really... Also saw the 'brush up the CEO is coming' routine too.. Sad, more store managers are looking to save their butts instead of the company line (which is sad cause they go hand in hand) I remember the 'Good ol' Days' Of TRU with the tags for the lockup high theft stuff.. I remember getting slot cars/Atari games etc. (yeah, THAT long ago!) It is sad that they changed their Store setup(Where it is sometimes IMPOSSIBLE to find what you are looking for in the first 5 minutes of a store you haven't been it before) The only thing they watch are the Vid games, you'd think if they can watch the vid game section like hawks they could darn well do that with the rest of the store... But it is also Mattel's fault. Mattel got Tyco, turned it into mush, they got Matchbox, and did the same, if it was ANY kind of competition to Hot Wheels they have killed it, or made it so crappy that no one wants them.  
Im afraid that is what they did with the Tyco Slot line, but they realized they would just kill it by not making any cars for it (I mean Really they have Hotwheels/matchbox bodies for molds/ideas, you cannot tell me they cannot make HO scale bodies by the TRUCKLOAD and do what JL did, use rolling dummy chassis/pullbacks for the chassis and let people just get the bodies) 
I only Hope JL or someone grabs the 440x2 chassis and starts redoing bodies, but I think that entails getting the patents for the classic Tyco bodies from Mattel.. Good Luck.


----------



## hdbiker

*The loss of tyco*

I do not think the loss of Tyco will hurt the hobby .
With J.L. doing cars and Tomy makeing new cars I can not see any great loss.
The cars cost $30.00 at my local hobby shop so I do not buy them.
I can get a 1/32 car for the same price or $10.00 more.
I do buy the Tomy cars since they are makeing new ones and are cheaper.
I collect both as well as 1/43 resin kits and diecast.
The detail of the new 1/43 diecast is awsome.
The toy race sets that Toy-R Us sells do not compare.
So I do not think they will go far.
I do beleive Tyco molds will be sold to somebody so they will not disapere.
With all the resin people makeing new cars like MEV we will have lots of new
cars to last us for a while.
So enjoy them.


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## Captain Fred

ParkRNDL said:


> I miss the days when TRU's had AISLES. Have they all gone over to this weird little "department cluster" arrangement? Heck, I think I'd go out of my way just to see the last remaining holdout stores if there are any.
> 
> I also miss the days when they sold Tomy Pocket Cars, but that's one for the diecast boards...
> 
> --rick


 There is one that I know of that currently still has the aisles whith the bike section in the center, just like all the other TRU stores used to have. It's on I-45 in N. Houston near the Greenspoint Mall.


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## ParkRNDL

Captain Fred said:


> There is one that I know of that currently still has the aisles whith the bike section in the center, just like all the other TRU stores used to have. It's on I-45 in N. Houston near the Greenspoint Mall.


 AAACK! That's it! The bike aisles and ride-on toys right down the middle... shame that's a little TOO far out of my way. Now I'm gonna start checking TRU's when I'm out of town, just to see...

--rick


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## JordanZ870

Heck, I would Put up with the walking.


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## car guy

I remember going into TRU & buying slots from the floor via the tickets, but that was quite a few years ago. 
TYCO, unfortunatley fell by the way as did ENRON & alot of others, corporate greed & inner office theft!!
Mattel is all about Hotwheels & Barbies, it's they're bread & butter. Have you ever visited their collectors site? It can get very expensive. They're actually responsible for my coming here. They re-ignited my childhood interest in slot cars that I played with as a child, i'm 45 y.o. btw. However, you can only "look" at the Hotwheels, at least the ones you spend big money on. My 3 boys even got burnt-out on them. Slot cars are made to be played with.

Unfortunaley, TRU I think, will be remembered with fondness as "I remember that store when I was young", from what I can assume from the HW site is that they won't be around for much longer, I was actually suspended on their site for stating the obvious, luckily it only laasted a few weeks, but none the less they didn't want any fuel added to that "fire".

As far as the bigger scale goes, I've gotten some great deals on HO scale cars from the "older guys" because as they state "the HO cars get hard to follow 'cause they're so darn fast". I guess one of the "perks" of getting older is "trying" to following these speeding misiles, but hey like I said, i'm 45 years old and I love HO scale.

The problem I have with the slot car hobby here in L.A., is proprty value. It's so damn expensive here, the real estate costs' can't support ANY hobby.

I'm done ranting.

So, how has your day been?


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## lenny

car guy said:


> I remember going into TRU & buying slots from the floor via the tickets, but that was quite a few years ago.
> TYCO, unfortunatley fell by the way as did ENRON & alot of others, corporate greed & inner office theft!!


I believe you're thinking of the wrong Tyco. The company you're thinking about regarding corporate greed is Tyco International (TYC). Regardless, Tyco was part of Matchbox when Mattel bought Matchbox, Tyco kinda came along for the ride as part of the purchase.


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## car guy

lenny said:


> I believe you're thinking of the wrong Tyco. The company you're thinking about regarding corporate greed is Tyco International (TYC). Regardless, Tyco was part of Matchbox when Mattel bought Matchbox, Tyco kinda came along for the ride as part of the purchase.




I thought they were the same, aren't they? Regardless, Mattel let the TYCO line go down the tubes. Nothing but basically, "swap meet" junk nowadays. It's pretty sad.


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## Montoya1

> 6. NOt a prediction but a hope that Scaletrix will start making 1/43rd cars also
> 
> Roger Corrie


They will.


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## Abner41

*Good day gentleman!*

My name is Jack.
I just moved to the Ogdensburg New York area.
I am interested in finding a club or sop to race at.
H.o scale - 1/24th scale or 1/32 scale racing.
Ogdensburg is on the st/ Lawrence river.
1 hour from Ottawa, Canada
30 minutes from Brockville, Canada
1 hour from Watertown, New York
1 1/2 hour from Plattsburg, New York
Any help with this matter would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you1
[email protected]


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## noddaz

Hello Jack and welcome aboard...
I am sure you will find someone in your new area to race with...
But you may want to start a new thread instead of tagging along at the end of an old thread...
Look here also:
http://slotcarillustrated.com/portal/forums/index.php?
There is a lot of slot info there...
Have fun.
Scott


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## okracer

i have a childford 1/43 set i purchased at follies after christmas a few years back its the four lane f1 set id like to get some more track but cant find anyone that sells the sets anymore its cheaper to just buy new sets than to buy track alone plus you get extra cars


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## pshoe64

*Toys Killed Tyco*

Tyco was absorbed by Mattel due to their success in the toy market in the late 80's early 90's. They started venturing into the mass toy market with Dino-riders and the old Ideal games like Ker-plunk. Once they became more diverse and successful (Dino-riders were the number 1 toy in 90-91 by wholesale sales), Mattel started sensing competition and bought them out. Once they carved what they wanted out of the Tyco line, they tried to place things like slot cars into their own lines, like Hotwheels. Since Tyco lost its identity and Mattel didn't know what to do with it, the slot cars and trains slowly disappeared until gone. Mattel is a mass toy manufacturer, not a hobby manufacturer. The separate chassis sales has been the one bright spot.

-Paul


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## bemoore

Really sorry to hear of the demise of Tyco/Mattel HO slots. The X2 is my favorite chassis. I, too, hope that someone can pick it up and continue the line.



AfxToo said:


> In my opinion the 1:43 scale is much more like likely to fall by the wayside


I think I'm going to disagree with this. The problem with HO is that it isn't plug-n-play enough for a modern toy. Today's kids are used to video games that just work out of the box. HO's need tweaking right out of the box. And the magnet cars are better than the pancake cars. So, the most plug-n-play of the HO sets is a magnet car set from Tomy or LL. Either of which, however, don't provide a very fun experience. The cars are too fast for the small track you get. A set with pancake cars would be better, but they take even more tweaking and maintenance, and they don't offer much in modern body styles.

1/32 scale IS pretty much plug-n-play, but they take a LOT of room. Unless you want that F1-car-on-a-gokart-track driving experience, a large basement is pretty much a requirement, and a spouse willing to let you have the run of the basement. And giving a controller to a 6 yr old so he can turn your $100 plastic masterpiece into a plastic debris field is not a good way to get slots into the hands of kids either. After Dad finishes screaming at his kid, the kid wants nothing to do with slots. The larger the car, the more damage is done when it hits something, typically. I've seen some HO cars survive some incredible wall shots, and some 1/32 cars damaged by a simple rollover. 1/43 scale has the potential to be plug-n-play while at the same time being fairly tolerant of abuse by 6 yr olds. I love HO and 1/32, but I'm really tempted by 1/43. The fact that I can fairly easily do a routed track in 1/43 (unlike HO) only fuels the temptation.


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## A/FX Nut

pshoe64 said:


> Tyco was absorbed by Mattel due to their success in the toy market in the late 80's early 90's. They started venturing into the mass toy market with Dino-riders and the old Ideal games like Ker-plunk. Once they became more diverse and successful (Dino-riders were the number 1 toy in 90-91 by wholesale sales), Mattel started sensing competition and bought them out. Once they carved what they wanted out of the Tyco line, they tried to place things like slot cars into their own lines, like Hotwheels. Since Tyco lost its identity and Mattel didn't know what to do with it, the slot cars and trains slowly disappeared until gone. Mattel is a mass toy manufacturer, not a hobby manufacturer. The separate chassis sales has been the one bright spot.
> 
> -Paul


The reason TYCO is dead in trains is because of the lack of realisim and the locomotives lack of durability. TYCO was good for getting the youth started into model railroading. But for the serious hobbyist, TYCO is not a long term product.

Bachmann has made their locomotives more on par with the locos of Walthers, Proto, and Atlas. Bachmann did away with the pancake motors and went to can motors and all wheel electrical pick up. 

As for TYCO slot cars I think they weren't bringing the money in like they did in the 70's and 80's. Video games have cut into the sales of a broad range toys and games. TYCO slot cars are a great product. Easy to race and maintain. I think Mattel could make money with them, but I think Mattel doesn't see the huge profit margin they once enjoyed.



bemoore said:


> Really sorry to hear of the demise of Tyco/Mattel HO slots. The X2 is my favorite chassis. I, too, hope that someone can pick it up and continue the line.
> 
> 
> 
> I think I'm going to disagree with this. The problem with HO is that it isn't plug-n-play enough for a modern toy. Today's kids are used to video games that just work out of the box. HO's need tweaking right out of the box. And the magnet cars are better than the pancake cars. So, the most plug-n-play of the HO sets is a magnet car set from Tomy or LL. Either of which, however, don't provide a very fun experience. The cars are too fast for the small track you get. A set with pancake cars would be better, but they take even more tweaking and maintenance, and they don't offer much in modern body styles.
> 
> 1/32 scale IS pretty much plug-n-play, but they take a LOT of room. Unless you want that F1-car-on-a-gokart-track driving experience, a large basement is pretty much a requirement, and a spouse willing to let you have the run of the basement. And giving a controller to a 6 yr old so he can turn your $100 plastic masterpiece into a plastic debris field is not a good way to get slots into the hands of kids either. After Dad finishes screaming at his kid, the kid wants nothing to do with slots. The larger the car, the more damage is done when it hits something, typically. I've seen some HO cars survive some incredible wall shots, and some 1/32 cars damaged by a simple rollover. 1/43 scale has the potential to be plug-n-play while at the same time being fairly tolerant of abuse by 6 yr olds. I love HO and 1/32, but I'm really tempted by 1/43. The fact that I can fairly easily do a routed track in 1/43 (unlike HO) only fuels the temptation.



Got to disagree with you. Magnet cars are not better than pancake cars. They are different. And when it comes to maintance, the magnet car needs more because of the higher speeds. pick up shoes wear faster as do the comm brushes. You have to run ski shoes to get the maximuim life from that part if you run or race alot, step shoes don't last.

Tweaking can be part of the fun. Most children don't have the patience for that.

Dad shouldn't give his 6 year old son the controller to his $100.00 masterpiece and expect it not to get wrecked at some point.

1/43rd was tried by Aurora in the 60's. It didn't make it. It's made a comeback but I don't see the after market support for it like I see it in HO. I'm sure you can get parts.

It's not any more plug and play than the other scales. And if you want a nice size layout comparabile to an HO layout, you'll have to have close to twice the space of an HO layout.

Randy.


----------



## bemoore

A/FX Nut said:


> Got to disagree with you. Magnet cars are not better than pancake cars. They are different.


I didn't say they were better. I said that they were lower maintenance, and easier to get to run out of the box. Pancake cars are more finicky than magnet cars, and they show imperfections in the track far moreso than magnet cars.



A/FX Nut said:


> And when it comes to maintance, the magnet car needs more because of the higher speeds. pick up shoes wear faster as do the comm brushes. You have to run ski shoes to get the maximuim life from that part if you run or race alot, step shoes don't last.


Yes and no. I'll grant you that magnet cars will go through pickup shoes faster. Brushes? I think I've replaced ONE set of worn out brushes on my inline cars, and that car ran an endurance race, so I'm not sure I can agree with that one. My complaint of pancake cars is that they never seem to just run when you first pull them out of the box. I'm not talking new out of the box. I'm talking about a car that's been run, but has been put away for a few weeks or months. Just about every time I pull one out, it needs a drop of oil to keep the arm from screeching, and a pickup shoe cleaning. My inline cars? If it ran fine 6 months ago, it will run straight out of my box. Maybe not perfectly, but well that you don't have to go to the tool box before you can enjoy a few laps. This is significant for kids to be able to enjoy them. They will want to pick up a car, drop it in the slot, and go. An inline car will do that much better than a pancake car. At least that's true for my cars. My track is 2 lanes. I can set up 3 pairs of inline cars for my track and leave them out on the track. Anyone can just walk up, drop a car in the slot, and go. That doesn't work with my pancake cars.



A/FX Nut said:


> Tweaking can be part of the fun. Most children don't have the patience for that.


Agree 100%. But even I, at age 49, prefer running & racing over tweaking. I don't mind tweaking so long as my driving to tweaking ratio is better than 4 to 1.



A/FX Nut said:


> Dad shouldn't give his 6 year old son the controller to his $100.00 masterpiece and expect it not to get wrecked at some point.


True, but there aren't that many beater cars available in 1/32. It's not easy to find something cheap & bulletproof in 1/32.



A/FX Nut said:


> 1/43rd was tried by Aurora in the 60's. It didn't make it. It's made a comeback but I don't see the after market support for it like I see it in HO. I'm sure you can get parts.


To me, this is the major shorcoming of 1/43 right now. There's not enough car selection, and not enough aftermarket support.



A/FX Nut said:


> It's not any more plug and play than the other scales. And if you want a nice size layout comparabile to an HO layout, you'll have to have close to twice the space of an HO layout.


Granted, I have never run any 1/43 cars, but they are much more similar to 1/32 than HO, and 1/32 is FAR more plug-n-play. As for track size, I'm going to partially disagree. It depends on the HO car you're talking about. Pancake cars can be run reasonably well on a 4x8 layout. Any of the Tyco, Tomy, LL cars need more. At least 4x12 IMO. And the Wizzard, BSRT, & Slottech cars are a little cramped on 4x12. If you jump to the race classes like Super Stock, Modified, or RO. They really need 4x16, and Modifieds & RO's are actually a little cramped at this size. IMO you can run no-mag 1/32 reasonably well on a smaller layout than HO Modifieds & RO's. I'm guessing here, but my guess is that 1/43 cars can be run reasonably well on a 4x12 layout, maybe 5x12 since the lanes are wider.


----------



## martybauer31

Wow... a 5 year old thread, that has to be a record....


----------



## NTxSlotCars

Well, it's been a long, drawn out mourning process.
I think I would have preferred Tyco going under, like Aurora did.
At least someone with an interest in continuing the line might have picked it up.
Mattel will just sit on the rights.


----------



## A/FX Nut

Bemoore,

If you read post #62 you will see where you said magnet cars are better that pancake cars. 

Randy.


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## bemoore

A/FX Nut said:


> Bemoore,
> 
> If you read post #62 you will see where you said magnet cars are better that pancake cars.
> 
> Randy.


What I said was...


bemoore said:


> The problem with HO is that it isn't plug-n-play enough for a modern toy. Today's kids are used to video games that just work out of the box. HO's need tweaking right out of the box. And the magnet cars are better than the pancake cars. So, the most plug-n-play of the HO sets is a magnet car set from Tomy or LL.


I was talking about how they compare in terms of plug-n-play-ness. Not which one was better overall. Sorry if I wasn't clear enough.


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## NTxSlotCars

I think the UltraG cars have solved this.


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