# RC2 slits wrists.



## MadCap Romanian (Oct 29, 2005)

Here's further evidence that RC2 is going to kill themselves....

I just got word from my wholesalers that RC2, in their infinate wisdom, has put a new quota on all their distributers to sell x ammounts of their model kits per year. Any wholesaler that doesn't do this won't get the "Rights" to carry RC2 products unless they pay a higher tarrif. 

This means that my store, Monster Hobbies, won't be able to carry AMT kits, Polar Lights kits and Jhonny Lighting diecasts unless I buy my Wholesaler's remaining stock or find another wholesaler. This also sucks because I won't be able to get the new releases when they come out. this is essentially cutting off a big chunk of my lifeline.

In business, ANY sale is a good sale. To drop a wholesaler because they didn't sell x ammounts of kits is narrowing down their sales margin to the point where there won't be any sales at all. 

What a beautiful way to kill the hobby world. I guess the only "Hobby shops" will exist down a tiny, cramped isle in a Walmart and consist of a huge selection of 8 kits.


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## phrankenstign (Nov 29, 1999)

Hopefully, they'll realize their mistake. Of course, it could be their plan for limiting the variety of kits they release. Perhaps they feel having 8 great selling models is better than having a large variety of moderately selling kits. I imagine the overhead would be a lot smaller that way. In the end, though, the consumer would be the one who wiould suffer from the limited selection available.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

They are, without doubt, the Antichrist.


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## Dave Metzner (Jan 1, 1970)

No John, 
They're just a 700 Million Dollar corporation that doesn't see Plastic models as their biggest profit center!
I doubt that anyone in any kind of decision making position at RC-2 even reads this forum.

Dave


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## the Dabbler (Feb 17, 2005)

Dave,
What exactly would be/is the big problem for RC2 to ship smaller amounts to more distributers? Is it some cost factor ? Shipping ? With everything computerized today, shipping. ordering, billing shouldn't be a big problem?
Not knowing the 'game', it seems that as many units that get out the door the better regardless of to whom or where ?
Dabbler


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## Dave Metzner (Jan 1, 1970)

Dabbler, Not everything is computerized today, especially the sales departments of model kit companies, Kit orders are still processed by people. Shipping is still done by people. It is probably not as profitable to sell more small distributors vs fewer large ones.

Distributors buy at very substantial discounts off retail (after all they are selling to the hobby shop at a 40-50% discount and still need to make some money themselves). In order to buy from the manufacturers at those prices they have ALWAYS been required to meet certain minimun purchase volume and stocking requirements.
This is the way that the business works. If you want to buy as a wholesaler you must meet the volume requirements
All Manufacturers operate in this manner, I don't know the specifics of RC-2's program but I'm sure that they have minimum volumes and stock levels that are required to maintain status as a wholesaler. 
I don't know if they've made adjustments in those volume levels, I'm not privy to those details, I am pretty certain that most large wholesalers will continue carrying RC-2's plastic kit lines.
RC-2 has always sold a large percentage of their plastic kits to specialty retailers, that means wholesalers have always been important in their chain of distribution. 
I cannot imagine that they will change that business model drastically, they are not so stupid as to slash their own wrists.

Dave


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## the Dabbler (Feb 17, 2005)

Thanks Dave.
Does this kind of mean then that they might prefer to sell direct to a mass retailer like Wal-Mart rather than go through a wholesaler to supply small dealers ? Or would W-M have to deal through a wholesaler too. It seems probably W-M would handle more product than a lot of small fry put together ? But not much incentive for a variety of off-beat kits though.


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## Styrofoam_Guy (May 4, 2004)

I can see some consultant came in and said that if they changed their selling methods your shipping costs would decrease. Of course they are assuming that the total sales will be the same.

Who does it hurt? The small hobby shop. Will they be forced to order a minimum amount from a large wholesaler? So instead of one kit of this subject and one kit of that subject he has to get 10 kits off all subjects. 

I don't think that will work.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Dave Metzner said:


> No John,
> They're just a 700 Million Dollar corporation that doesn't see Plastic models as their biggest profit center!
> I doubt that anyone in any kind of decision making position at RC-2 even reads this forum.
> 
> Dave


 Yes, yes, but that doesn't mean they're not ALSO the antichrist!


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

^^A conglomerate antichrist? Hmmm . . . interesting idea!


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## spe130 (Apr 13, 2004)

Next thing you know they're going to be hiding "666" in the castings for their kits... :drunk: 

:tongue:


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## MadCap Romanian (Oct 29, 2005)

I just hope there's enough demand for Revell kits.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

spe130 said:


> Next thing you know they're going to be hiding "666" in the castings for their kits... :drunk:
> 
> :tongue:


:lol:

That's all right as long as they don't come out with a "Damien" kit from "The Omen."


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## DoctorG (Jan 1, 1970)

The grim reality of business is captured quite well in Dave's explanation. My company has a strong distributor network, but our agreeements do stipulate annual minimum order amounts, etc. If a company is margin driven, they will put their effort into getting the highest margin product out the door. If they are market driven, then they'll sell as much as they can to anyone (this is the typical offshore sales mentality).


Dr. G.


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## MadCap Romanian (Oct 29, 2005)

It's odd that RC2 will have the kits built offshore by market driven people and yet sell it at home based on margin driven sales.

Wouldn't the idea of "getting out there" be better?


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## irishtrek (Sep 17, 2005)

RC2 did start having kits molded in Mexico several years ago in order to lower the retail price, least that was my understanding any way.


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## Dave Metzner (Jan 1, 1970)

Actually the Mexican adventure was an Ertl thing - this is relatively ancient history it was several years ago - before AMT/Ertl was bought up by RC-2. 
I've had conversations with people who were there then and they tell me that particular effort to find a cheaper way to produce plactic kits was a disaster!
Seems Mexico was a lousy place to try to do business then, and Ertl ended up pulling everything out of Mexico and bringing it back to the States.

Working with China seems to work much better - all the domestic manufacturers are there now. 
Polar Lights was all produced there - RC-2's production is all there now as well as Revell/Monogram.

Dave


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## LindaSmile (Mar 24, 2005)

I'm gonna chalk this one up as just another rumor until I see it in writing.

Starship Modeler is an RC2 reseller. The sales agreement states that for new customers, your first order must be $1000, and then subsequent orders have a minimum of $250. Has been from the start and was the same yesterday when I placed another order. That's it. No other quotas in the formal agreement. The agreement is renewed every year.

The only thing that talks about annual sales numbers applies to terms. If you don't sell a set amount per year, you have to pay by credit card or in advance, instead of getting Net 30/60 terms.

We have an order minimum with just about everyone we buy from. The $250 minimum with RC2 is one of the lowest. It's $1200 per order with our Japanese distributor. Even if RC2 doubled their minimum, it would still be considered a low minimum.

Why is it that everyone is so quick to believe negative rumors about RC2 but none of the positive ones? (and that was a rhetorical question, BTW)

Hope that helps,

Linda


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## WarpCore Breach (Apr 27, 2005)

Just to point out, Linda - RC2's wholesale structuring is different outside the US. MR's shop is in Canada. I don't know why it's so different once you cross the border, but it is and that's the way it works. Until MR chooses/ wants to tell us exactly what he's dealing with, that is.


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## 1:8 scale (Mar 25, 2006)

*This is COOL!*

OK I have to admit I not very smart about this stuff, so I will ask because this thread is cool

So, say my local hobby store wants to sell Polar Lights kits(in the good old days before RC). How big of an order do they have to place with the Wholesaler?
How big of an order does the Wholesaler have to place with Polar Lights?  

:wave: Jeff


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## MadCap Romanian (Oct 29, 2005)

> Until MR chooses/ wants to tell us exactly what he's dealing with, that is.


Hey, I can only go with what my wholesaler tells me. 

I didn't ask all the details. I simply went to buy a few AMT kits to restock my shelves and when I went up to the desk, they said they won't be getting any more stuff from RC2 because RC2 changed their quota and raised the bar. 

My wholesaler that I get the RC2 stuff from started out distributing model trains. They are better known for that. Chances are that I might be the only hobby store owner that takes his time to creep down the last 2 isles of their warehouse to buy AMT stuff. 

It may be easier for them to not bother renewing their RC2 liscence than to pay the increase to get more kits. I know from my end too that I can't just as easily fork over whopping ammounts of cash and buy out their 80+ AMT kits on a weekend money binge to help them reach that quota. 

All I know myself is that my wholesaler won't deal with RC2 beacuse they demanded more money. Perhaps other wholesalers might do the same thing and for RC2 to "Raise the bar" may just cut the strings on other Wholesalers in simular situations too.

All i know from my end is that I have to either get only Revell kits or look elsewhere for AMT.


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## Dave Metzner (Jan 1, 1970)

MR,
Go to http://www.stevenshobby.com that's Stevens International. Stevens is one of the big wholesalers - they DO ship to Canada. They have a range of plastic kits from every major manufacturer including RC-2

I think you should also investigate Great Planes, Horizon, MMD and Legacy Distributing. All are large Wholesals distributors with BIG plastic kit inventories I'll bet all will be able to ship product to you. 
The one restriction most large wholesalers will have is that you must have a store front, you may not be able to buy from some of these suppliers if you're operating out of your basement or garage.
I don't know who you've been buying from, but it sounds like they are don't have a very big plastic kit inventory . An inventory totaling 80 RC-2 kits is real small (80 kits is only about 7 cases) I've been in, and worked for shops that carried more RC-2 kits than that on their shelves on a regular basis. As a matter of fact the little chain I last bought for often times buys more than 80 of a single kit on hot new releases!

My advise is that you check into the major hobby wholesalers - I'm betting you'll find they have a much wider range of product for you to choose from and may even be able to sell you at better terms!

Dave


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## Zathros (Dec 21, 2000)

Since its a good bet that RC2 aint never going to produce anything Remotely
as good in terms of subject matter that PL did when Tom Lowe was at the 
helm, it means nothing to me, and since I got everything I wanted that PL 
made from day one, I couldnt care if they closed thier doors tomorrow...
to me, the golden age of classic reproduction kits is past...At least 
when it comes to RC2..But then again..they never DID the golden age..
They just bought the molds and are letting em ROT..


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## MadCap Romanian (Oct 29, 2005)

Sounds good Dave. Now the next question...can you help me find $10 g's?


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## Dave Metzner (Jan 1, 1970)

Zanthros,
Just remember that the average Hobby store customer will probably be looking for one of the following .Car Models, Airplane Models, Military Models as in Tanks, or ship models. He may even be looking for Railroad or RC stuff!
A Hobby store cannot survive on figure or sci fi kits!

Dave


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Dave Metzner said:


> . . . A Hobby store cannot survive on figure or sci fi kits!


Yes, some of us even build up some of those other kinds of model kits in addition to sci-fi kits.


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## Dave Metzner (Jan 1, 1970)

Yeah, 
Me too- see http://home.earthlink.net/~dmetzner 

Dave


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Dave Metzner said:


> Yeah,
> Me too- see http://home.earthlink.net/~dmetzner
> 
> Dave


Excellent job on all those non-sci-fi subjects, Dave! :thumbsup: 

I also like the way you set up your webpage.


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## MonsterModelMan (Dec 20, 2000)

And just to add...just because you have a storefront...doesn't mean you'll get the best prices. 

Let me explain...Stevens International which is the distributor has a store front called AAA Hobbies and although I can get most any kit still being produced...it costs me alot more than trying to get them elsewhere...and this is right from the front of the distributor. Probably a separate venture from the same guy. I think that it was a legal thing as to why he was priced so high...to not show favoritism...but I could get a way better deal from a hobby store 10 miles away than what I could get from them.the good news is...I could get "almost" any kit I wanted without waiting...they had A TON OF KITS! 

Almost as many as Highway Hobby near JP.

MMM


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## Dave Metzner (Jan 1, 1970)

Some distributors have required that you show proof that you have a store front operation before they'd sell to you in the past. These policies vary from one distributor to the next and may be changing to some degree with the advent of the e-store.
I'm pretty sure that most of the larger distributors will have some requirement that their potential customer demonstrate that he is indeed an established retailer not just a guy trying to buy a few kits at wholesale prices for himself and some of his buddies.

I also know that many if not most distributors also operate their own retail outlets. 
In most cases those retail operations, owned by wholesalers, do not consistently offer the lowest retails. After all the wholesalers don't want to alienate the retailers, that they are selling to in much larger volume than the individual retail customer, by undercutting the reccomended retail prices too much or too often.

Dave


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## El Gato (Jul 15, 2000)

All I have to say is that thank God Japanese model makers aren't afraid to do sci-fi... even if it costs and arm and a leg to get those models shipped here. At least their molds are accurate!


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## Zombie_61 (Apr 21, 2004)

LindaSmile said:


> Why is it that everyone is so quick to believe negative rumors about RC2 but none of the positive ones?


Have there _been_ any positive ones?


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## spe130 (Apr 13, 2004)

Zombie_61 said:


> Have there _been_ any positive ones?


The repops...speaking of which, I need to get a few of those three-Ent sets.


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## MadCap Romanian (Oct 29, 2005)

The Repops? Are you serious? They are taking the worst of the worst and putting them through the molds again! 

A prime example of this is in the model car world. RC2 is reissuing all the MPC junk from the dark ages of the hobby (1972-1989). This is the "High quality" stuff like the Dukes of Hazzard General Lee kit with the 15 inches of flash and the horribly misaligned body molds as well as the 1974 Ford Mustang II. You couldn't wish for a more terrible subject matter on your worst enemy!


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## irishtrek (Sep 17, 2005)

Just remember Mad Cap they could just as well reissue some older kits from the 60s, and yes there were styrene kits back then.


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## CaptFrank (Jan 29, 2005)

What's wrong with the re-pops?

The "Adversary" kit is the only one I know of featuring
the Romulan D'Deridex warbird.


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## MadCap Romanian (Oct 29, 2005)

> Just remember Mad Cap they could just as well reissue some older kits from the 60s.


They actually should. The AMT Trophy series cars from the 1963 era were as good, if not better than most of the items AMT produced during the 1990's when Revell, Monogram, and AMT were producing models with the quality equil to that of Tamyia. 

Those were the 2nd glory days when AMT hired an awesome staff of talented individuals to tool new cars that people had been requesting for years. That was when we got the 1958 Edsel, the 1957 Chrysler 300c and many more. When RC2 bought out AMT, they fired all those creative people, shut down The Blueprinter, AMT's promo magazine, and moved everything to China. Once they were in China, they pulled all the old molds out of the back yard, the ones AMT were going to retool or replace, and they ran the plastic through them again. 

A classic point is that RC2 stopped producing AMT's new 1957 Chevy, the one with the opening trunk, and repoped the older AMT 1963 Trophy series 1957 Chevy that had seen about a million billion gallons of plastic over it's 40 something life. AMT built the new Chevy as a more accurate, better replacement for the Trophy series Chevy and RC2 dumpped it and repoped the tired old Trophy series mold.



> and yes there were styrene kits back then


No need to get "cute". My dad has a 1954 series Maxwell model car kit which is 50% plastic and 50% Balsa wood. This kit was the very first Revell model kit produced and it was the kit that launched their business. Once Revell got the ball rolling, they replaced the Balsa wood/plastic kits with 100% plastic parts.

You must understand that my family has been building models since the 1940's for 2 generations. My dad and I built mostly model cars and practically nothing but. I can tell you the history of almost every domestic model car kit in production. When I say that the industry had "Dark days" from @ 1972- 1989, especially MPC, and that RC2 is repoping those very kits today, you better believe me.

As far as Star Trek kits go, AMT never really was that accurate. They had that philosophy that if it "looked right, it is right". Only the original Klingon D7 kit is an accurate ST kit because it was produced by AMT and litterally taken from the mold and put right on screen. The problem is that AMT has been the only Star Trek model kit producer up until the 1990's and those were the only ST kits we ever had. I still love to build them for the nostalgia, but the accuracy is way off.


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## beck (Oct 22, 2003)

Madcap , that is really a neat bit of history about the Revell balsa /plastic 
kits . learn somethin' new every day . 
btw , when i first saw the title of this thread i thought it might turn into a carpfest . but it has turned out to be most interesting . 
hb


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## irishtrek (Sep 17, 2005)

Yo, Mad Cap I was not trying to be "cute" I was simply pointing something out because you were making it sound like there were no styrene kits before 1972. My mistake.
The AMT D-7 is not 100% accurate considering the 2 reccesed panels on the forward edge of the secondary hull has a grill pattern where as the studio model had just plain panels, or did you forget?


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

MadCap is correct. The AMT D7 IS accurate. The additional details do nothing to detract from the accuracy of the overall design-shape or contours. They are easily changed or removed to reflect the studio model look. Otherwise, it reflects the details shown in the plan.


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

Beancounters are NOT INNOVATIVE. They are NOT CREATIVE(except the ones in jail for imbezzling). Long term sucess comes with a strong product and continued demand. Beancounter solutions are at best, a stop-gap solutions.


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## Zathros (Dec 21, 2000)

Dave Metzner said:


> Zanthros,
> Just remember that the average Hobby store customer will probably be looking for one of the following .Car Models, Airplane Models, Military Models as in Tanks, or ship models. He may even be looking for Railroad or RC stuff!
> A Hobby store cannot survive on figure or sci fi kits!
> 
> Dave


True enough Dave, but even back in the glory days of Aurora, no hobby shop ever did either..Those kits were sold back then in the very same way you mention..right along with Cars, airplanes, & military models ..
With you being in the business and me only a collector, I can only speak from a collectors standpoint, as well as a hobby shop customer..and that is it seemed to me PL's line did pretty well in any hobby shop I was ever in..they were always well stocked with them , right along with all the other subject matter you mention,and I have seen many a hobby customer purchasing PL's figure and sci kits , and many hobby store owners have told me that they wish they could restock those kits again, since they all sold quite well, and many a customer still ask for them...


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## MadCap Romanian (Oct 29, 2005)

Yes, it would be nice to have a Monster Hobbies Polar Lights figure building contest right around Halloween, but I have too few of these kits left on my shelves. It's almost a shame to sell one because I know I'll never have a replacement.


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## MadCap Romanian (Oct 29, 2005)

> The AMT D-7 is not 100% accurate considering the 2 reccesed panels on the forward edge of the secondary hull has a grill pattern where as the studio model had just plain panels, or did you forget?


I didn't forget.....and it is accurate. Here's the kit history.

Back in the late 1960's when Star Trek, The Original Series was still on TV and in it's third series, AMT was building a lot of the Star Trek model kits as well as the full size mock-up of the Shuttle Craft, Galileo 7. Stephen Whitfield represented AMT at that time and he negotiated the deal to market the original U.S.S. Enterprise kit. He also made a deal with NBC to have AMT fund the construction of the studio full size Galileo 7 Shuttle Craft mock-up for filming in return for the rights to market the shuttle craft model. (That was in the first season.)

By the time NBC was ready to film The Doomsday Machine episode in the second season, they needed a model to represent the dammaged U.S.S. Constellation. NBC also was working "Under the gun" on TOS and they didn't have too much time to waste building more models for the show. Luckily, AMT was already producing a model of the U.S.S. Enterprise and it was essentially free for NBC to obtain as many AMT models as they needed since AMT and NBC were working together on the show.

AMT's kit, however, wasn't as accurate as the actual NBC 11 foot studio model and that's why the U.S.S. Constellation's bridge section is more "Egg shaped" than "Teardrop shaped". Yet, when the studio needed a week to film an episode, they didn't have the time to correct any flaws in the model. Therefore it was built basically out of the box and then sent for filming. (This is the original AMT 18" kit.)

More evidence of the "Hurried" U.S.S. Constellation comes in the form of the registry numbers. The AMT kit's decal sheet at that time only had "1701" printed on it. NBC's studio model builders cut the existing numbers appart and rearranged them to read 1017. (The improved Franz Joseph inspired decal sheet with the 14 ship names and numbers replaced the original decal sheet in 1975 when AMT also improved the original building construction design of the kit.) However, the AMT kit made it on film which makes these inaccuracies part of ST "Cannon". 

Getting back to the Klingon D7, Matt Jefferies, head of ST design at NBC, was handed the task of designing a Klingon ship for the upcoming episode "Elaan of Troyius" in the third season. It was only suppose to appear on film for a brief time, but it HAD to be there. Matt Jefferies was in a bind because he knew that if he designed an elaborate 11 foot ship for filming, that it would go over budget and that there wouldn't be enough time to light it and so on. Instead, he took his (Roddenbury approved) design sketches to Stephen Whitfield at AMT.

At the same time, AMT was looking for a ship to produce to be an advasary for their very popular U.S.S. Enterprise kit. Stephen Whitfield was delighted that Matt Jefferies brought them the sketches and the AMT model makers and engineers designed blueprints from the sketches and then took those blueprints and carved out the molds for the D7. 

The first D7 kit that ran through the mold came out with some minor errors in it. The mold was quickly corrected and the second D7 kit was the one that Jefferies took back to NBC. Once Jefferies had built the model, again out of the box, he took it to the NBC studio and filming began. This was the original 18" AMT Klingon D7 kit.

Incidently, the term "D7" came from a joke between William Shatner and Leonard Nimoy. This term circulated around Paramont and eventually made it to the general public in by the 1970's.

It was also rumored that the updated Klingon model used in ST The Motion Picture was a Klingon D8. The D8 status seemed to dissapear over time, however the D7 term was used in the Deep Space episode "Trials and Tribulations" in 1996 finally making it part of ST Cannon.

Here's the original Klingon D7 as it appeared on the TV in 1969 in Elaan of Troyius:










And here is my 18" AMT Klingon built kit :










Jefferies built his model differently than I did. It appears that the torpedo tube should have gone on the inside of the primary hull on mine. It also looks like Matt didn't paint his kit like I did, following the suggested AMT painting instructions that came in my 1991 issue kit.

Here's another thing to consider...did the original kit come with grills and Jefferies forgot/didn't want to put them in or did AMT add those to the kit when they improved the molds for the U.S.S. Enterprise kit and Klingon kit in 1975? It's doubtfull if we'll find the answer, but perhaps someone online knows and can back it up with a photo or two?


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## MadCap Romanian (Oct 29, 2005)

I just noticed something else about the Matt Jefferies build up....if you look closely at the engine naceles and supporting pylons...you can see the seam lines!


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## 747 (Oct 11, 2001)

El Gato said:


> All I have to say is that thank God Japanese model makers aren't afraid to do sci-fi... even if it costs and arm and a leg to get those models shipped here. At least their molds are accurate!


Exactly! Who gives a rats?! We just wait for REL's masterpieces.


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## irishtrek (Sep 17, 2005)

Ok, you guys, Trek Ace and Madcap, you both say the AMT D-7 is accurate. I say it is not. Guess it depends on how you look at it. Also the recessed panels are not all that recessed on the AMT kit. And as for any changes to the kit from '91 the only change I saw was the stand, maybe Trek Ace can answer MadCap's question.


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

First off, I'm not sure what is meant by "Jefferies buildup". The studio model and master tooling model were both made by AMT, but they were not "kits" that were assembled. There were subtle details that were different between the two, but the overall shape is the same.

Like I said before, Irishtrek, if you want the plastic kit to look like the studio model, just remove the grilles and other details that do not appear on it and replace the engine detail parts from the tooling model design with a scratch-built piece that looks like the studio version. The overall shape of the model is accurate and correct and need not be changed.

Oh, and don't forget to add the tiedowns to the topside.


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## mb1k (May 6, 2002)

I used to not understand either ...but during my operations management master's degree program we took a lot of classes on economies of scale, etc. Learned a lot, but it's one of those things I understand but can't explain 

Essentially there are valid and from the bean counters POV reasons to do what Polar Lights is doing now. It's not the best PR, or customer service thing to do, but the shareholders and CFO are going to like it better and it just may be better for a healthier bottom line to RC2 as well. Sorry, vague I know.

They're not modelers, they're suits.


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## MadCap Romanian (Oct 29, 2005)

Jefferies buildup means the model that Matt Jefferies took back with him to the NBC studio and assembled.

According to my references, my above story of events is true. Hell, it was even printed in a Matt Jefferies interview in Starlog Magazine not more than a year ago.


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## spe130 (Apr 13, 2004)

MadCap Romanian said:


> I didn't forget.....and it is accurate. Here's the kit history.
> 
> Back in the late 1960's when Star Trek, The Original Series was still on TV and in it's third series, AMT was building a lot of the Star Trek model kits as well as the full size mock-up of the Shuttle Craft, Galileo 7. Stephen Whitfield represented AMT at that time and he negotiated the deal to market the original U.S.S. Enterprise kit. He also made a deal with NBC to have AMT fund the construction of the studio full size Galileo 7 Shuttle Craft mock-up for filming in return for the rights to market the shuttle craft model. (That was in the first season.)
> 
> ...


I'd like to correct two errors:
1) outside of content issues, NBC didn't have anything to do with the production of TOS - they bought the series from Desilu (at a loss to the studio) and only had an influence on the process when the censors or execs objected to something.

2) There were new decals made for the _Constellation_ - where else do you think the actual name lettering came from? The guys who made the decals simply forgot to make a new registry decal, and didn't have time to get something ready, so the "1701" was rearranged to "1017."


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

They couldn't have made it 1710, could they! Noooooooooo, that would have made SENSE and avoided 40 years of confusion and 15 years of internet arguments. :lol:


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## spe130 (Apr 13, 2004)

Or heaven forbid they buy a second kit and make it 1707...or 1711...or 1717...or 1771...etc. :drunk:


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## fjimi (Sep 29, 2004)

Thanks for the insight MadCap! Excellent read.


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## MadCap Romanian (Oct 29, 2005)

This is getting way too serious. Why is it that every time I post something like this that it gets picked appart for every i that I didn't dot and every t I didn't cross? And where is the snarky attitude coming in from? 



> NBC ... bought the series from Desilu


Yes, they did. For simplicity's sake, I wrote "NBC". Sorry, I went right to the head, the top rung of the ladder. The fact remains that in those days NBC owned the rights for ST from Desilu. That still makes it a property of NBC so what's the difference? I'm sorry I didn't write a 22 page essay on the entire history of NBC and Desilu - which was created by Lucille Ball and Desi Arnez to produce the I Love Lucy series in the 1950's - can we move on? Can you use your imagination to fill in the blanks in my posts and just read them for the point I'm trying to make and not pick it appart word by word?

It's like getting upset because someone knocks on your door and says "Your house is burning up!" and you're there, picking appart every little detail because he didn't say "Your house is on fire!". Are you just going to stand there and debate while everything you own becomes an inferno, or are you going to run out of the house, maybe save your family and call the fire department? Really!



> There were new decals made for the Constellation - where else do you think the actual name lettering came from?


Thank's for the attitude at the end of that statement. I REALLY appreciate being told I'm an idiot. I could be equilly as mean and point out that it was ONE decal and not DECALS. ONE decal that read U.S.S. Constellation. The rest came directly out of the kit, whether they cut them up and applied them before or after doesn't matter. Then I can also add in something snarky, but you know what? That doesn't interest me and I'm trying hard not to turn this post into a full out flame war.



> The AMT D-7 is not 100% accurate considering the 2 reccesed panels on the forward edge of the secondary hull has a grill pattern where as the studio model had just plain panels, or did you forget?


OR did I forget? Again a snarky statement. Where does it lead too, I don't know. Are you leading me to a fight? Are you stomping my intelligence? OR do you always add in your 2 cents at the end of every post you make? What do you mean by that statement?



> According to my references, my above story of events is true. Hell, it was even printed in a Matt Jefferies interview in Starlog Magazine not more than a year ago.


I'm really amazed that someone hasn't pulled appart what Starlog magazine issue number that I got that information from, what store I read the story from, or even if it was a Starlog or some other Star Trek magazine. I'm also amazed no one asked me to scan the article and post it on the board to confirm my statements were true.

Well sorry folks! I didn't buy that issue because I was broke at the time and I also didn't know it would become a topic of such a "heated" debate. I just read it and remebered it because I like Trek history, especially on the model kits. Matt Jefferies, the head of design for ST TOS created really great models and AMT has always been one of my favorite model manufacturers....until RC2 bought it out. When I finished reading it, I comitted the info to memory and put the mag back on the rack and carried on with my life.

Next thing I'm waiting for is someone pointing out my spelling mistakes and grammatical errors.  

I don't know where you guys come from, but I own a hobby shop. Part of the trick to sucessfully selling items is to know the product inside out and that includes the history of the kits on your shelf. What really sucks is to go into a store and ask the cleark about something and they just stare at you like you're speaking another language. That's not how I like to run my store. If I don't know about something, I feel like I owe it to my customers to learn the most about it that I can. They respect that and that's what keeps them coming back. It's part of the reason why I've just celebrated 2 sucessful years in business.

I came here to share some of that kit history and I recieved a few rude slaps in the face. Well I 'm sorry, but this is becoming REALLY boring for me and it's leading nowhere! 

I don't mind being corrected if there's a few missing pieces to my story or if someone has something to ad, but when it gets to picking appart some very minor details that 99.9% of the board members know about and adding dumb comments on the end of statements like "Did you forget?" or "Where did you think that came from?" or "They made plastic kits before 1972." or anything else that seems redundantly stupid, I tend to think "Why did I bother?" and that's not what this hobby talk BB is about.


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## irishtrek (Sep 17, 2005)

"Snarky attitude"? You need to chill out. I don't recall any one here insulting you inteligence or calling you an idiot or anything else along those lines. Keep making posts like that and the moderaters will end up locking out this thread,.
But knowing my luck you will probably misenterpet what I've said here and get all bent out of shape over it. :wave:


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## MadCap Romanian (Oct 29, 2005)

> But knowing my luck you will probably misenterpet what I've said here and get all bent out of shape over it.


And again I get it! 

Sure, let the post get locked. It's probably run it's time anyway. It's not like I live my life for this post or anything.


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## irishtrek (Sep 17, 2005)

Just like I thought, once again you have twisted my words around, why do you feel the need to do this? If we stop bickering back and forth the thread may not get locked out.


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

Calm down, fellas. Remember Hank's request.


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## Dave Metzner (Jan 1, 1970)

This thread has wandered pretty far from it's original topic.
What's worse is that it's started to get nasty.
Time to slap a lock on it!

Dave


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