# 1/6 Frankenstein Vinyl Build-Up



## Guest (Mar 29, 2011)

This is my contribution to the Frankenstein collection. Many thanks to wolfman66 and phantom11 whose builds served as my inspiration (though no quality comparison is assumed). It is a great kit and was fun to finish.

The base is by Monster Model Review.


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## Els (Mar 13, 2011)

Nice job, that looks excellent.
Els


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## rkoenn (Dec 18, 2007)

I think he looks great, or should that be awful??? You got the colors really good, particularly the Frankenstein green. Your green does have a nice dead flesh look without being glaring, very muted. The details on the base are nicely done as well. You should take pride in this one.

Bob K.


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## phantom11 (Jul 12, 2007)

Nicely done, indeed! Love the color scheme you used for the skin tones; has a nice, dead/reanimated look to it. Like skin that's juuuuuuuuust this side of rot.  Suitably horrific for the Monster. Excellent choice on the base, too. Overall, this piece is just great from head to toe.


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## Auroranut (Jan 12, 2008)

xxxxx


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## mcdougall (Oct 28, 2007)

Creepy....I Love it :thumbsup:
Is it an Original Horizon kit?

Mcdee


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## kit-junkie (Apr 8, 2005)

The face is great! Love the colors.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

1/12 or 1/6? It looks just like the 1/6 Horizon kit.


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## mrdean (Aug 11, 1998)

John P said:


> 1/12 or 1/6? It looks just like the 1/6 Horizon kit.


Not Horizon, head is all wrong. 

Mark Dean


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## Facto2 (Nov 16, 2010)

My guess would be that it IS 1/6th scale. Looks to me like a Thai recast of the Horizon, which would explain why the head doesn’t look right. Was the vinyl white? What did you pay for it?

Base appears to be original.

Colors and paint look very good. I just can’t get on board with this if it is a recast. And in the long run, you get what you pay for. In this case a deformed Franky head.

If I'm wrong, I apologize in advance.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Here's my Horizon for comparison:
http://www.inpayne.com/models/franky.html
The pose is the same and the suit jacket look the same. I thought the head on MM's might have been molded badly.


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## Guest (Mar 30, 2011)

Thanks to those of you with positive comments. To the others, the "distorted" Frankie head is simply due to my camera distorting close-up shots - it is not "deformed". If you "can't get on board with it" it is your problem. Go crap on someone else's thread. BTW, it is the 1/6, not 1/12, kit as I mis-wrote. Correction to follow.


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## ochronosis (Dec 29, 2005)

Great Build, Keep up the good work :thumbsup:


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## gaz91 (Nov 26, 2007)

Very nice build, great skin colours
:thumbsup:


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## mrmurph (Nov 21, 2007)

Terrific colors, and I love the moody lighting you chose for your pics.


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## Facto2 (Nov 16, 2010)

Model Maker, I did not mean to offend and as I said in my first post, I apologize in advance if I'm wrong. And hey, I did say I liked your paint work.


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

I can see the head's looking like the one in the bottom right shot on John P's page. 

Nice look!


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## Guest (Mar 31, 2011)

John P said:


> Here's my Horizon for comparison:
> http://www.inpayne.com/models/franky.html
> The pose is the same and the suit jacket look the same. I thought the head on MM's might have been molded badly.


Your picture looks different because the builder painted bangs on Frankenstein's forehead. I followed the sculpt and painted only the hair, thus the head on mine looks taller/longer.


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## IanWilkinson (Apr 23, 2010)

Great paint job and the base looks brilliant!.. i just sold an original Horizon Franky and it looked more or less identicle to your one..


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## Guest (Apr 1, 2011)

IanWilkinson said:


> Great paint job and the base looks brilliant!.. i just sold an original Horizon Franky and it looked more or less identicle to your one..


Thank you Ian and to all the others whose kind comments make sharing on this forum so worthwhile! 

P.S. I've asked the moderator to change my thread title to "1/6" from "1/12" (oops) so hopefully should be corrected shortly.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Model Maker said:


> Your picture looks different because the builder painted bangs on Frankenstein's forehead. I followed the sculpt and painted only the hair, thus the head on mine looks taller/longer.


No, I painted the hair that was molded on, just like you did.

No crapping intended, btw, we were just having a conversation.


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## deadmanincfan (Mar 11, 2008)

This is one of my favorite Frankenstein kits, and I like to see everyone's takes on it! Nice work! Cool base! :thumbsup:


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## Guest (Apr 2, 2011)

John P said:


> No, I painted the hair that was molded on, just like you did.
> 
> No crapping intended, btw, we were just having a conversation.


Understood . My comment was to those who abusively disregard my work in my own thread because of the perceived quality of the mold - I have nothing to do with that - or the amount I am able to spend on kits: "how much did you pay?". Its my build-and-finish work that is up for discussion and constructive criticism. Those who "can't get on board" shouldn't flag down the train.

I've taken another look at my Frankie head and its possible I can see some more molded hair below the ridge line. I don't doubt you that its there - though my kit may not be as defined as yours. Plus my eyesight isn't what it used to be. As a matter of fact other builds I've seen do paint the hair much as you did. Didn't know that was your own work. Looks like official work for the company - very nice. Anyway I'll proffer that my Frankie just came back from the barber . His head is not "deformed". Thanks for writing.


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## Guest (Apr 2, 2011)

deadmanincfan said:


> This is one of my favorite Frankenstein kits, and I like to see everyone's takes on it! Nice work! Cool base! :thumbsup:


Thanks deadmanincfan! The base _is_ great and at only $25 from Monster Model Review its a bargain. End of commercial .


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## septimuspretori (Jan 26, 2011)

This Franky Rocks....makes my Horizon Franky look like I built and painted it with my feet. :jest:
Ben


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## Guest (Apr 2, 2011)

septimuspretori said:


> This Franky Rocks....makes my Horizon Franky look like I built and painted it with my feet. :jest:
> Ben


LOL! I doubt that but thanks for the kind words!


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## crazypredator2 (Dec 1, 2009)

looks great.


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## septimuspretori (Jan 26, 2011)

Model Maker said:


> LOL! I doubt that but thanks for the kind words!


No...seriously, dude.


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## deadmanincfan (Mar 11, 2008)

Well, Ben, just how long ago did you paint that? I'm guessing not just recently 'cause I've seen your recent stuff and it doesn't look like that...


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## septimuspretori (Jan 26, 2011)

I painted this Franky just last year. However, it was only my second model as an adult. I have learned so much from the lists and forums that I'm on. I continue to learn everyday. I'm also always practicing. I know I have a long way to go, but I'm really enjoying the process and I love learning from all of you guys.

Ben


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## frankiefreak (Mar 15, 2011)

Nice job! Here's a pic of my 1st Horizon Frankie. I have done some touch-ups since this was taken so I'll post more soon.


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## Guest (Apr 4, 2011)

frankiefreak said:


> Nice job! Here's a pic of my 1st Horizon Frankie. I have done some touch-ups since this was taken so I'll post more soon.


Very nice, indeed :thumbsup:! Love your take on it. I will definitely be looking for more pics.


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## frankiefreak (Mar 15, 2011)

*My Horizon Frankenstein*

Here is my very 1st 1/6 Horizon Model. I will have a few more pics up soon.


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## frankiefreak (Mar 15, 2011)

*Horizon Frankie*

Thanks MM. I have also built up the 1/8 Son of Frankenstien by Geometric. He's not mounted on a permanent base yet but here are a couple shots. I also already have another Horizon 1/6 in the box and ready to start.The blue tunic comes from a movie still in color that showed it as that color, or close to it. I've leaned alot from you and others on the site so he'll be better...hopefully.


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## frankiefreak (Mar 15, 2011)

*1st Horizon Frankie*



Model Maker said:


> Very nice, indeed :thumbsup:! Love your take on it. I will definitely be looking for more pics.


Hey MM. I just posted a new thread with more pics. Here they are too!


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## wolfman66 (Feb 18, 2006)

Franky's skintones look great and like the base you added to him.:dude:But have to agree with John and some of the others on this one that its a recast of the horizon Frankenstein kit.


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## Auroranut (Jan 12, 2008)

MM, is this a recast????

Chris.


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## Tim Casey (Dec 4, 2004)

It certainly doesn't look like the original (which I have). You can get these recasts for $15 from Thailand on eBay, but you get what you pay for. You're also supporting / encouraging Thailand recasters; their theft was the reason that Horizon went out of business. Too bad. Horizon would have made a lot more of these kind of kids had they reaped the benefits of their labor.


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## FalcignoArt.com (Dec 5, 2010)

I appreciate your well done paintjob, I really like the color palette you used and the paint is smoothly applied. However, it's a shame you applied your skills to an inferior recast of this incredible kit. If you weren't aware of what you were buying that's fine, because being a sculptor & kit producer myself, I enjoy seeing anyone new join the friendly fold of figure modeling. You should check out an original Horizon Frankenstein Monster sometime as Steve Wang's sculpture is gorgeous! The recasts (as I'm sure you are well aware having built this one) are poured up in a thin, warped, brittle vinyl, are missing all the fine detail found in the originals, suffer poor parts fit, are almost a full scale size smaller than the originals, and his head is majorly warped on the recasts. You can always spot a Horizon Franky recast by the goofy head & heavily rippled surface detail on most of the jacket parts (most likely caused by excess mold release). An original Horizon Franky is high quality grey vinyl with perfect proportions and the jacket has an almost glass-smooth finish. Even if one ignores the sad fact that recasts helped put Horizon out of business, the quality drop alone is usually enough to make modelers seek out an original casting.

As I said earlier, you did a really great job on this, but I'd love to see how amazing your build up would be on an original casting of this classic sculpt! When it comes to painted recasts, the old saying "You can't Polish a Turd" applies in spades. Even still, you applied a bunch of well done polish!

Keep up the good work and please support original kits!

-Mike


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## Guest (Apr 6, 2011)

FalcignoArt.com said:


> I appreciate your well done paintjob, I really like the color palette you used and the paint is smoothly applied. However, it's a shame you applied your skills to an inferior recast of this incredible kit. If you weren't aware of what you were buying that's fine, because being a sculptor & kit producer myself, I enjoy seeing anyone new join the friendly fold of figure modeling. You should check out an original Horizon Frankenstein Monster sometime as Steve Wang's sculpture is gorgeous! The recasts (as I'm sure you are well aware having built this one) are poured up in a thin, warped, brittle vinyl, are missing all the fine detail found in the originals, suffer poor parts fit, are almost a full scale size smaller than the originals, and his head is majorly warped on the recasts. You can always spot a Horizon Franky recast by the goofy head & heavily rippled surface detail on most of the jacket parts (most likely caused by excess mold release). An original Horizon Franky is high quality grey vinyl with perfect proportions and the jacket has an almost glass-smooth finish. Even if one ignores the sad fact that recasts helped put Horizon out of business, the quality drop alone is usually enough to make modelers seek out an original casting.
> 
> As I said earlier, you did a really great job on this, but I'd love to see how amazing your build up would be on an original casting of this classic sculpt! When it comes to painted recasts, the old saying "You can't Polish a Turd" applies in spades. Even still, you applied a bunch of well done polish!
> 
> ...


Send me $140 and I'll buy one.


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## Todd P. (Apr 12, 2007)

You could get two for $140 if you're patient. Maybe even three. I got mine for $20 long after the production run ended.


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## Facto2 (Nov 16, 2010)

Model Maker said:


> Send me $140 and I'll buy one.


If you really wanted to own a BMW but couldn’t afford one would you buy one that was stolen for one tenth the cost? When you buy a recast, that’s basically what you’re doing. 

Support the hobby by buying originals. IMHO.


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## Guest (Apr 6, 2011)

I have just about had it with the feigned indignation that some members of this forum have felt compelled to project on my thread. It seems that if one’s model kit does not possess the correct pedigree they consider the finish work unacceptable and unworthy of unbiased appreciation. I’m sorry that Horizon and other companies are no longer in business. Horizon has been defunct for over 10 years. I was not buying or building models in the 1990s so I missed out on the opportunity to buy from them. But those who pretend moral outrage over the purchase of a recast kit that hasn’t been produced in over a decade need to seriously examine their moral position. I cannot do anything to bring Horizon back from the dead. So who are you defending? Is it the ebay scalpers or antique toy buyers that now delight in charging multiple times the original retail price of a Horizon kit? Is that who I’m supposed to feel obligated to? I would never buy, and have never bought, a bootleg of any currently produced model kit. My expenditures on Polar Lights, Round 2, Moebius and other current manufacturers’ kits prove that. So please save your self-righteous posturing and misplaced moral outrage for someone else’s thread. I don’t need the lectures and, read for what they are, don’t serve any purpose other than to give you an opportunity to appear righteously indignant on your moral crusade to nowhere. As a matter of fact, they reveal a conscience morally adrift implicitly advocating excessive profiteering by hoarders and scalpers. Those folks will never get my money.


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## Guest (Apr 6, 2011)

Facto2 said:


> If you really wanted to own a BMW but couldn’t afford one would you buy one that was stolen for one tenth the cost? When you buy a recast, that’s basically what you’re doing.
> 
> Support the hobby by buying originals. IMHO.


They are still making BMWs. I do not appreciate the accusation of being a thief. Let those who are without sin...


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## Facto2 (Nov 16, 2010)

Clearly you’ve made your moral choice. Best of luck to you.


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## kit-junkie (Apr 8, 2005)

Facto2, clearly you've spoken your piece. Now go booger up a different forum. Who are you, the hobby police?


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## wolfman66 (Feb 18, 2006)

Here is something that think some of you that are unaware of recasts do to the hobby should read.

*By Sean Hughto, John Diaz & Mark Vantine
*
_*WHAT IS A GARAGE KIT?*_
_This goes back to the roots of the figure-modeling hobby as we know it today. In my mind’s eye, the story goes something like this: It’s the 80’s. Some guys who grew up building Aurora’s classic figure kits in styrene looked around and decided that they wanted to see some of their favorite characters from movies, comics, and the like made into model kits. They picked up some clay and began to sculpt their own. They took the sculpts and made silicone molds into which they would pour two-part resin plastic to produce kits they could sell to or trade with fellow enthusiasts. These cottage industry productions were carried out in the basements and garages of these brave pioneers. Hence the term “garage kit.” _

_As the years passed, the hobby grew. It already existed in its own form in Japan. Japanese and American producers became more and more savvy and professional and the hobby emerged from a solely garage-based set of ventures and sprouted some larger operations. These companies had names like Billiken, Horizon, Screamin, and Geometric. Many of the early companies invested in metal molds and cast their kits in vinyl rather than resin. But the whole time, the garage operations continued and the name “garage kit” stuck even when people were referring to kits produced by these larger operations._

_Today, these big companies aren’t around any more, and few new vinyl kits are produced. But the hobby is far from dead. We have gone back to the future in a way – back to smaller resin operations. However, today’s sculptors and casters, thanks to the natural evolution of the hobby, are much more sophisticated and use techniques the pioneers never dreamed of to produce outrageously accurate and detailed kits that are beautifully cast and a joy to build. You should appreciate that most of these operations, while capable of making very professional products, are operating on a shoestring. With all of the costs of production, these are usually break-even type ventures where any profits simply go into producing the next new offering. In short, these operations exist because these small producers are fellow enthusiasts and love of the hobby; no one’s getting rich here and these are essentially individuals (as opposed to say, big nameless corporations)._

_While there are many good websites to check out relating to this hobby, if you want to get a quick overview of what’s going on right now in terms of new kits produced in the last few years, a good place to start is Buc Wheat’s Modeling World at: _
_http://home.cshore.com/bucwheat/._

*WHAT IS A “RECAST”? *
_It’s an unauthorized copy of a kit. The copies are usually made of resin, but some well-financed recasters (especially in Asia) are capable of making vinyl copies. In simple terms, recasting happens when unscrupulous individuals obtain an original of a kit and use it as a master to make their own mold and produce cheap knock-offs. These copies are referred to as “recasts.” _

_Recasts are ALWAYS inferior to the original kit. Just as a photocopy of photocopy is worse than a photocopy of an original, a recast of a kit is necessarily worse than a casting that comes from a mold made using the original prototype. Detail and crispness is always lost. Add to that the fact that recasters don’t really care about the modeler, but only making a quick buck, and therefore do things like: use cheap materials (e.g., brittle, bad-smelling resin); do slip shod quickie casting jobs (e.g., resulting in offset seams, pin holes, and uncured spots); use molds that are worn out (silicone molds start to break down after a certain number of castings from the heat generated as the resin sets); don’t bother to produce unusual parts (e.g., white metal or vacuform plastic accessories); and don’t bother to produce box art or even include a box with the kit. What does the recaster care if the modeler gets so frustrated building the recast that he decides the original kit producer makes crap products and vows never to buy another kit made by that producer, the recaster will just steal someone else’s work. Some of the worst quality recasts of this sort are those that one cannot help but run into on Ebay: those being sold by recasters in Thailand, Singapore, and other places in Asia. _

_Pictured below is a recast placed next to an original; note the huge differences in quality; the red circles indicate major casting flaws in recast (pictures courtesy of Mark Atherton)_
  ​_There is a species of recasters who will actually go the extra mile in a more sophisticated effort to fool you. That is, they will actually work hard at making a good mold and casting and go to the expense of copying the extras like box art and instructions. These recasters however, are usually trying to pass the kit off as original and hence offer little discount off the producer’s price. These recasters are particularly insidious and hard to identify, but producers are presently working on ways to help buyers do just that using various indicators of authenticity (e.g., special stickers, certificates of authenticity, etc.)._

*WHY SHOULDN’T I BUY A RECAST? *
_Sometimes modelers who are new to the hobby buy recasts because they just do not understand why buying one is a bad thing. The truth is, it’s bad for everyone involved (except the recaster, of course!): from the sculptor and producer right down to you the individual modeler buying the recast._

_Let’s start with the sculptor and producer. Sometimes these are the same person, but often a sculptor will seek out someone to produce the kit for him or a producer will hire a sculptor to render a character the producer wants to release as a kit. Among other things, these expert producers organize and promote a brand name (for example, Jayco or Needful Things), practice the arcane arts of molding and casting, and deal with packaging and sales. When you buy a recast you are taking money out of the pockets of these folks. _

_Let me ask you, if you were putting your blood, sweat, and tears into sculpting the coolest piece you could or manufacturing a top quality kit (casting, instructions, box art, promotion and advertising, sales and shipping) of that piece with your only expectation being that you might make enough money to do another, how would you feel when some thief came along, made a cheap imitation and sold it a fraction of the cost because he had no real investment himself? After this happened to you a few times, you might well just decide to get out of the hobby. This is precisely the conclusion that many of the greatest sculptors and producers over the years have reached. Can you blame them? Why bang your head against the wall just to put money into the pockets of thieves? Of course, these thieves wouldn’t last long if modelers didn’t buy their recasts. _

_The scourge of recasting has contributed to the demise of some very big name licensed kit producers, such as Screamin, Horizon, and Geometric, just to name a few. It has also driven away plenty of small resin producers – too many to name. It has caused some of the greatest sculptors, such as Mike Hill, to stop producing garage kits. The loss of these and other producers means less for you, the modeler, to choose from. It also hurts the hobbies great magazines like Model Maniacs, Amazing Figure Modeler, and Modeler’s Resource, which rely on advertisers in order to bring you the great articles on building and painting kits as well as reports on the newest offerings. _

_If the producers quit, then the freelance sculptors are out of work because there is no one to hire them to create new sculpts. Also discouraged, those sculptors who produce their own kits then leave the hobby. After all these people are gone, there will be NO new kits being produced, so the recaster will fade because he will have nothing left to copy and no one left to steal from. Recasters are parasites that have severely hurt our hobby already and could eventually kill it if left unchecked. _

_Fortunately you as a customer can change all that. You can make an educated choice. If you choose not to buy recasts, you deny these parasites the money that draws them to steal the work of others in the first place. Even if you don’t really care about the recasters’ effects on others, avoiding recasts is in your own best interest as a modeler for at least two simple reasons: (1) recasts are almost certain to be more difficult and frustrating to build up, which will make the process less fun and yield a build-up that doesn’t look as good; and (2) by supporting recasters, you ensure less great new kits in the future and, indeed, may even contribute to killing off your hobby altogether. _

*HOW CAN I TELL IF A KIT IS A RECAST? *
_Some recasts are very easy to identify, others can be very tough to spot even for an experienced modeler. First, if the price is just way too good to be true, recast bells ought to immediately go off in your head. Second, inferior castings that are soft on detail, full of defects, have double seam lines, or are made of brittle or bad-smelling resin can be a tip off. Third, be wary of kits you know came in boxes originally that are being sold in plastic bags or plain black boxes. Fourth, be wary of most any kit coming from Thailand or other spots in Asia, other than Japan (Japan has plenty of legitimate companies and makes some of the best kits around). _

_Besides trying to identify the recasts yourself, you can do some other things: First, just flat out ask the seller if it’s a recast. You’d be surprised how even though a given dealer knows it’s wrong, he’ll readily admit it – often with some excuse offered as a justification (e.g., “oh, that’s out of production anyway” (even if it’s not); “I just thought I’d serve the modeler since [the original producer] is asking too much money for its kits.”). Tell them you won't buy it if it’s a recast. Second, ask the seller to identify the manufacturer and sculptor. Many times, they won’t even know! Lastly, if you are not sure, come to the ez-boards and ask for help identifying a kit. There are hundreds of people here from sculptors, producers and modelers who are well versed in this area and will be more than happy to help. Please just ask; it’s better to be safe than sorry. Doing a little research not only gives you piece of mind, but will also allow you to make new friends not to mention learning valuable modeling tips by frequenting the ez-boards._

_Pop Quiz: Can you spot the recast? (Here’s a hint: which has soft detail and yucky looking resin?)_
  ​*WHY ARE RECASTS CHEAPER? *
_Well for one thing, recasters’ expenses are minimal. All they do is buy a kit, make a mold of it, and cast it up. They don't hire a sculptor who can charge from several hundred to several thousand dollars, and that’s just for starters. They also don't advertise or promote the piece through magazine ads, box art, boxes, certificates, or instruction sheets, which, of course, saves them a ton of money and allows them to significantly undercut the actual producer and still make a tidy profit._

_Garage kit producers seldom see a profit, and if they do, they just reinvest it in the next kit anyway. A garage kit producer will ask the customers what they would like to see and base many of their kit releases on that input, but not a recaster. Recasters produce nothing original at all._

*WHAT IF I JUST CAN’T AFFORD THE REAL THING?*
_We all want things we can’t afford. Is it all right to buy a stereo a guy is selling out of the trunk of his car and that you know was stolen just because you couldn’t afford to buy the stereo at Circuit City? No, it isn’t. Buying a recast is no different._

*HOW CAN I FIND THE REAL THING?*
_So I can hear you saying, okay, I want to do the right thing and buy an original, but (a) I don’t know how to contact the producer or (b) find a retailer that sells the kit or (c) they stopped selling the originals three years before I got into the hobby and I have no idea how to find one. Let me tell you, searching for and finding “grail kits” is one of the joys of the hobby. _

_Your best bet for finding kits of any vintage are other modelers. They can point you in the right direction or might be willing to part with a kit they have stashed in their closets. Check out web sites, bulletin board like ez-board’s Clubhouse, or go to a convention/show. Ebay can be a good source for older kits, but is full of recast listings, so look out. _

*WHAT ABOUT OUT-OF-PRODUCTION KITS?*
_Some folks think that there’s no harm to buying a recast of an out-of-production kit. Unfortunately, it’s still wrong. The original producer could always reintroduce the kit himself or sell the rights to another legitimate producer who can reintroduce the kit. But, no one will do a second run of nicely made kits if the market is already flooded with cheap recasts. Also, beware when a recaster tells you a kit is out of production. It often is not, but rather still readily available form the original producer._

*WHAT ABOUT UNLICENSED KITS?*
_Licensing is a separate issue. This hobby would not exist if universal licensing was expected. Even if you think it’s wrong for an artist to make a tribute to a licensed character and a producer to make 20 to 50 castings for the handful of modelers and collectors out there who want one, with no significant profit, does this entitle someone else to rip off the sculptor and producer? No. Another thing to consider is that, regardless of whether or not a kit is of a licensed character, the original sculpture is fully protected by the same copyright laws, and is owned by the sculptor or kit producer._

*WHAT ABOUT THE PRODUCERS AND SCULPTORS?*
_Producers and sculptors are first and foremost fans of this hobby. They enjoy being able to take that moment in a film or character from a book, and through a combined effort, capture it forever in 3D through model kits. They give you the kits you crave, and they love to see your excellent build-ups of their efforts._

_Many sculptors who are just starting out use the garage kit market to gain exposure of their talents in the hopes of moving onto bigger and better jobs whether it be in film, special effects, or prepaint statues. They can't do that without producers, but, of course, recasters don't care._

_Many of the best figure toys made today, like SideShow’s, or the prepaint sculptures by companies like Dynamic Forces, Diamond Select, and Moore Creations can trace their lineages right back to garage kits. In some instances, toys or statutes are virtual reinterpretations of the best garage kits. In other instances, it’s the influence that comes from having guys who started in garage kits move over to toys, but keeping all that they’ve learned in the garage kit world about how to make cool figures. For example, Randy Bowen, of Bowen Designs and its hugely popular line of Marvel prepaints and other statutes, started out as a garage kit sculptor for a company called Dimensional Design. Or Shawn Nagle, who now does a lot of great sculpting work for Diamond Select, started out as a one man sculpting, molding, casting, and sales operation in the world of garage kits. The same is true of kit painters. David Fisher, co-editor of Amazing Figure Magazine and the star of a line of Model Mania videos, started out as a regular garage kit modeler. In short, we have a very cool hobby here. It has influence well beyond its small circle of kit makers and builders. We must come together to support and advance this great hobby. We must protect it from the cancer of recasters. _
</SPAN>


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## Facto2 (Nov 16, 2010)

kit-junkie said:


> Who are you, the hobby police?


No, I am not the hobby police.

I am a hobby supporter who’s been around since about 1989. I have watched recasts of Horizon, Screamin’, Intelig, Kaiyodo and Geometric (the original Geo) basically put those companies out of business. 

I am a hobby supporter who has done over 200 builtups. Wanna see some? Go here:
http://www.theclubhouse1.net/museum/databasesearch.htm
Type in "Tucky" in the modeler selection.

I am a hobby supporter who as a kit producer has produced over 100 kits while employing some of the best sculptors in the hobby including Yagher, Laudatti, Hill, Joy & Tom, Adam Dogherty and a bunch of others.

I am a hobby supporter who has written a bunch of how to articles in magazines.

I am a hobby supporter who has provided kit prizes for a number of shows and contests.

I am a hobby supporter who has continuously taken ads in AFM in order to help the magazine to continue to grow and keep bringing all that wonderful info to kit collectors everywhere.

Outside of that, I really haven't done much.

But no, I am not the hobby police. 

But I wouldn't buy a recast.


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## kit-junkie (Apr 8, 2005)

I really don't see how all that makes it okay for you to belittle and berate someone for buying a recast kit that has been OOP for so many years. How about this: you get Wang's permission to repop this kit and I'll buy one from you.


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## Facto2 (Nov 16, 2010)

A. Don’t know what kit you’re talking about.

B. Permission from the original producer makes it a rerelease (or repop) not a recast. There is a difference.

C. I’ve never produced anything from Wang. Did resell his Price kit but only getting original copies from Brokaw who was producing and selling them for Wang at the time. Rights to that kit were eventually sold to Amok Time who is now selling them as a prepainted statue. If you’re talking about something else, you’ll have to clue me in.


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## wolfman66 (Feb 18, 2006)

kit-junkie said:


> I really don't see how all that makes it okay for you to belittle and berate someone for buying a recast kit that has been OOP for so many years.


Kit Junkie,I cant speak for John.But seen what Recasters have done to him and a few of his kits which were recasted and other kit producers who have been recasted and its really wrong specially when guys like me and others pay out alot to get Original kits only to see that same kit get recasted by someone else and sell for far less than the Original.So he has every right to be pissed over it and from reading John's earlier posts he wasnt belittling anyone.But merely point out that it was a recast just in case model maker wasnt sure on it himself if it was a original or not.I hope someone does that for me aswell if post something that just recieved and wasnt sure if it was the real deal or not.


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## Auroranut (Jan 12, 2008)

KJ, with all due respect, John's not the one who started the attack. 
On Post #10 John praised the paintwork but expressed his personal opinion that if it was a recast he couldn't support it. He also offered an apology if he was wrong.
The attack started with MM on post #12....
IMO MM knew this was a recast and his latest post bears this out!!

Chris.


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## Auroranut (Jan 12, 2008)

wolfman66 said:


> Kit Junkie,I cant speak for John.But seen what Recasters have done to him and a few of his kits which were recasted other kit producers and its really wrong specially when guys like me and others pay out alot to get Original kits only to see that same kit get recasted by someone else and sell for far less than the Original.So he has every right to be pissed over it and from reading John's earlier posts he wasnt belittling anyone.But merely point out that it was a recast just in case model maker wasnt sure on it himself if it was a original or not.I hope someone does that for me aswell if post something that just recieved and wasnt sure if it was the real deal or not.


What Dan said!!

Chris.


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## kit-junkie (Apr 8, 2005)

Facto2 said:


> A. Don’t know what kit you’re talking about.


The one in this post. The Horizon Frankenstein. I thought I read it was a Wang sculpt.

I don't blame you for being upset with recasting. I just don't see how getting after Model Maker is going to help your situation. Go after the recasters.


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## armymedic80 (Aug 11, 2010)

That face looks almost real to look at. Superb job.


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## kit-junkie (Apr 8, 2005)

Facto2, I just read the thread again. You weren't being nasty. I apologize.


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## Facto2 (Nov 16, 2010)

kit-junkie said:


> Facto2, I just read the thread again. You weren't being nasty. I apologize.


No problemo.  
By the way, I thought you meant John Wang which is what threw me. Thus the references to the Price Poe kit. John produced it. Completely forgot Steve Wang sculpted the Horizon. Anyway, no worries.


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## plasticmouse (Nov 21, 2008)

-------


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## rusty nail (Aug 9, 2008)

Model Maker said:


> Send me $140 and I'll buy one.


I bought one about a year ago for $75.00 and that's with the shipping. You can find real nice kits out there if you look fairly well. 

As far as John Tucky goes, I've bought kits from him before and he has ALWAYS done me right.


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## frankiefreak (Mar 15, 2011)

*Horizon recast*



FalcignoArt.com said:


> I appreciate your well done paintjob, I really like the color palette you used and the paint is smoothly applied. However, it's a shame you applied your skills to an inferior recast of this incredible kit. If you weren't aware of what you were buying that's fine, because being a sculptor & kit producer myself, I enjoy seeing anyone new join the friendly fold of figure modeling. You should check out an original Horizon Frankenstein Monster sometime as Steve Wang's sculpture is gorgeous! The recasts (as I'm sure you are well aware having built this one) are poured up in a thin, warped, brittle vinyl, are missing all the fine detail found in the originals, suffer poor parts fit, are almost a full scale size smaller than the originals, and his head is majorly warped on the recasts. You can always spot a Horizon Franky recast by the goofy head & heavily rippled surface detail on most of the jacket parts (most likely caused by excess mold release). An original Horizon Franky is high quality grey vinyl with perfect proportions and the jacket has an almost glass-smooth finish. Even if one ignores the sad fact that recasts helped put Horizon out of business, the quality drop alone is usually enough to make modelers seek out an original casting.
> 
> As I said earlier, you did a really great job on this, but I'd love to see how amazing your build up would be on an original casting of this classic sculpt! When it comes to painted recasts, the old saying "You can't Polish a Turd" applies in spades. Even still, you applied a bunch of well done polish!
> 
> ...


Having just entered into the modeling world recently,(this is my first such kit) I had no idea of the history of Horizon or the existence of these "recasts."
I know I had alot of fun doing the build up and painting of this Frankenstein
and would love to try an original Horizon kit. The only one I have found is, as MM intimated, $140.00 and I can't justify that expenditure at this time. I will keep searching for deals and continue to work on my skills as a modeler it hopes of dong it justice when I try the real deal. Thanks for your advice mike and to all the modelers here who have helped me get started.

Michael


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## Auroranut (Jan 12, 2008)

Frankiefreak, if you go to the swap&sell here, you'll find Kerribug has an ORIGINAL Horizon Wolfman vinyl kit for $60!! Bargain!!:thumbsup:

Chris.


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## frankiefreak (Mar 15, 2011)

*swap & sell*



Auroranut said:


> Frankiefreak, if you go to the swap&sell here, you'll find Kerribug has an ORIGINAL Horizon Wolfman vinyl kit for $60!! Bargain!!:thumbsup:
> 
> Chris.


Hey Chris, how do I get to the swap & sell here on the site. I can't seem to find it. Duh! Thanks.

Michael


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## Todd P. (Apr 12, 2007)

Swap and sell clickable here.

With all due respect, though, I'd call $60 steep for a Horizon Wolf Man. It's not terribly popular because it's one of the weaker kits in that series. I think you could get one, an original, for $20 less if you keep an eye out.


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## FalcignoArt.com (Dec 5, 2010)

Michael, first off- Thank you for the compliments. But really, it's people like you that deserve them!

Garage kits are an expensive but extremely cool hobby. I liken it much more to being an art collector, except you guys actually participate in the creation of the final product.

That said, it's why I oppose recasts on so many levels. Paramount reasons being that they are blatant theft and cause the destruction of a very small hobby that takes huge amounts of effort & money to be a part of (both as a sculptor, producer, and modeler). Secondly because the sculptors of original kits strive to create excellent sculptures, legit producers put equal effort into offering the closest possible, quality reproductions of the original piece.

People who support recasts (in my opinion) have a very warped perspective of what makes garage kits appealing in the first place: the high quality and joint affection put into the original works!!!

Would you buy a 3rd generation recording of your favorite music group that had most of the musical elements in tact but was missing...oh let's say the cymbal crashes? Or the guitar solos, just because it was cheaper? I think not!
Same goes for films, would you buy a bootleg of Inception filmed in a theater with a video camera from the far corner of the theater? Of course not!

Guys like you make me happy to take the time to write posts like this because your heart is in the right place and you have no problem admitting your lack of prior knowledge when it comes to kits. That's awesome and speaks volumes about your character!

Now that you've breached the topic and asked for help & resources, you'll find MANY avenues for buying & trading original kits. Check out the Clubhouse Model Board, PM members here and on other forums that are trustworthy, or keep an eye on EBay for the real deal, and you'll find this hobby is fun, rewarding, and (if you are patient) affordable. Also, you should really check out Amazing figure Modeler Magazine. I write instructional articles for them and each issue of AFM is packed full of ads & reviews of a wide selection of current Garage Kit offerings. The magazine only promotes original issue kits from trusted dealers. You can find AFM at Barnes & Noble and at many comic shops. 

Feel free to email me ANYTIME you have a question about a kit, I'm happy to help and again...THANK YOU for being a great new addition to the Garage Kit World!

-Mike


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## frankiefreak (Mar 15, 2011)

FalcignoArt.com said:


> Michael, first off- Thank you for the compliments. But really, it's people like you that deserve them!
> 
> Garage kits are an expensive but extremely cool hobby. I liken it much more to being an art collector, except you guys actually participate in the creation of the final product.
> 
> ...


Thanks Mike, I'll keep in touch and patiently wait for my chance at an original kit. In the mean time I'll practice!

Michael


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## Kitzillastein58 (Jan 27, 2009)

Auroranut said:


> Frankiefreak, if you go to the swap&sell here, you'll find Kerribug has an ORIGINAL Horizon Wolfman vinyl kit for $60!! Bargain!!:thumbsup:
> 
> Chris.


PM for you Chris.


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## scotthm (Apr 6, 2007)

wolfman66 said:


> Here is something that think some of you that are unaware of recasts do to the hobby should read.
> 
> *By Sean Hughto, John Diaz & Mark Vantine...
> *


You do realize that by copying from a web page rather than linking to the original that you are doing the same thing you're complaining about, i.e. copying someone else's work.

Not that I disagree with your point, but I found it interesting.

---------------


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## Facto2 (Nov 16, 2010)

Since Danny is friends with Diaz and Vantine I doubt that it would be an issue. I'm friends with Sean and if I asked him, I'm sure he wouldn't care. Why muddy the water?

Also, that article is part of the Clubhouse. Danny is one of the moderators at the Clubhouse. So I don't really see any issues about him reposting it here.


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## wolfman66 (Feb 18, 2006)

Facto2 said:


> Since Danny is friends with Diaz and Vantine I doubt that it would be an issue. I'm friends with Sean and if I asked him, I'm sure he wouldn't care. Why muddy the water?
> 
> Also, that article is part of the Clubhouse. Danny is one of the moderators at the Clubhouse. So I don't really see any issues about him reposting it here.


Thanks John and owe ya.


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## Facto2 (Nov 16, 2010)

No problemo. Right is right.


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