# More New Reference Material - 1st Generation TycoPro Cars



## pshoe64 (Jun 10, 2008)

We just posted the reference material for the 1st generation TycoPro cars. You can check out the photos here:

TycoPro 1st Generation

-Paul


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## ParkRNDL (Mar 20, 2002)

Ever since I snagged a copy of the reference book, the old Tycos have been growing on me. Great stuff.

--rick


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## Slott V (Feb 3, 2005)

You should find a photo of the blue Cobra in the transparent version. I got over $140 for one those on FleaBay years ago. Highly desirable. 

TycoPro is the slot car that brought HO slots into 1/64 scale.


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## pshoe64 (Jun 10, 2008)

I have the trans-blue cobra and it will be posted in the 2nd generation TycoPro list. That's the chassis mine came with, fixed guide flag location, no drop arm.That Cobra and the Donnie Allison Chevelle and Petty Roadrunner are the ones I have no catalog listings for, but I do have the pictures of the race set. Wasn't the Cobra a "Trade-up to TycoPro" promotion??? I'll have to find the ads for that. I have them somewhere in the stack.

-Paul


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## ParkRNDL (Mar 20, 2002)

I actually have that Cobra too. Missing the driver's head, but nice otherwise. I knew they were desirable, but I didn't know they were over $100 desirable, wow. Gotta find a driver's head, I guess.

--rick


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## sidejobjon (Jun 3, 2010)

*Pat Dennis*



pshoe64 said:


> I have the trans-blue cobra and it will be posted in the 2nd generation TycoPro list. That's the chassis mine came with, fixed guide flag location, no drop arm.That Cobra and the Donnie Allison Chevelle and Petty Roadrunner are the ones I have no catalog listings for, but I do have the pictures of the race set. Wasn't the Cobra a "Trade-up to TycoPro" promotion??? I'll have to find the ads for that. I have them somewhere in the stack.
> 
> -Paul


Lets see if I can get Pat Dennis to comment here, he invented TYCO PRO
Love all Brass 
SJJ


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## Pat Dennis (Jan 7, 2009)

*Phantom Cobra Promotion*

Regarding the transparent Blue Cobra, this was only available as a Carded special “Phantom Cobra” offer. It was packed with a “pen -type” oiler and became the incentive to “trade any car” for a TycoPro car. It was never offered in a set.
Regarding the Allison/Petty NASCARs, the licensing agreement with NASCAR was only for a complete set. We were prohibited from selling these as open stock cars.


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

Always loved the transparent Cobra. I still have one I got back in the day but it's sitting on a newer chassis. I have a bunch of TycoPro chassis in various states of disrepair. The plastic is brittle with age and parts are hard to come by. I always liked running them other than the fact that the wipers wore out very quickly. All of my TycoPros had the wipers, not the buttons.

http://i.minus.com/iMwVTm1f9GSMr.jpg
http://i.minus.com/iPoKGelevwACm.jpg


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## Pat Dennis (Jan 7, 2009)

pshoe64 said:


> We just posted the reference material for the 1st generation TycoPro cars. You can check out the photos here:
> 
> TycoPro 1st Generation
> 
> -Paul


I don’t want to appear too critical, but I do remember what I developed and the sequence of production.
You have some really strange combinations of parts on some of the cars in your listing – either these are “customized” of garage sale items. The McLaren without fender slots puzzles me. I suspect that is an early shot – before the slots were cut into the mold and was a part of my “collection” of bits that I sold to a collector some years ago. It does have the proper intake stacks, unlike your example of the McLaren “with slots”, which has stacks from the later M8F.
Saying all of this, I wish you the best in your documenting the Tyco line.
Pat Dennis


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## ajd350 (Sep 18, 2005)

Hello Pat. 

I have been enamored of the early Tycopros since their introduction and have most of the early cars in my collection, including most of those I bought early on. I recently acquired a NOS case of Tycopro2s still in their cubes. I noticed that about 1/2 the cars had the 'white boots' and the rest had black regular rear tires. Do you have any insight as to why they would have been mixed that way? Al


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## pshoe64 (Jun 10, 2008)

Here's the flyer for the "White Boots" release from 1972.

Tyco "White Boots"

-Paul


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## ajd350 (Sep 18, 2005)

Thanks, Paul. 
My question, however, is how an original case ended up with a mix of boots/no boots. Al


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## pshoe64 (Jun 10, 2008)

I don't think all body styles got the white boot treatment. The ad references "These 8 winners wear white boots" and there were 26 models released that year according to the 1972-73 catalog. Or, that carton may have been in between white boots coming into production or going out. That would be my best guess.

-Paul


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## Slott V (Feb 3, 2005)

Wow good stuff here. Great to read input from Pat Dennis. Not often do you get first hand information regarding historical slot development and design.

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## sidejobjon (Jun 3, 2010)

*recent PAT DENNIS*

http://www.toybaron.com/PatDennisMK2progress.html
Not just historical.


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## Pat Dennis (Jan 7, 2009)

ajd350 said:


> Hello Pat.
> 
> I have been enamored of the early Tycopros since their introduction and have most of the early cars in my collection, including most of those I bought early on. I recently acquired a NOS case of Tycopro2s still in their cubes. I noticed that about 1/2 the cars had the 'white boots' and the rest had black regular rear tires. Do you have any insight as to why they would have been mixed that way? Al


Regarding the “mix” of White Boots and original tires, you will have to remember that Tyco was producing a huge quantity of cars at that time – plus beginning to ship the new counter display with 144 cars each. See http://riggenho.com/ for photos & details of both the White Boots intro & production and the counter display. Actually, reading through the TycoPro history may answer a lot of questions.
Most product updates had the unfortunate situation of a “rolling” production start. Old inventory of “old style” tires were installed on new plated wheels, etc. This created sub models: a series 1, a series 1.5 (with a mix of parts) and a true series 2 and so on. As the counter displays were packed out in NJ, the initial displays would have a mix of inventory. As I remember these, the individual car models were packed in a interior box to be “loaded” into the display by the retailer. It would not be unreasonable to think some of these had the same model with new & old tires being in the same sub-master cartons.
I hope this helps


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## ajd350 (Sep 18, 2005)

Thanks, Pat
That was the answer that I expected, but I wasn't sure. It makes sense that a change was transitional until previous parts in the system ran out. 

I remember re-reading your series on the Cobra you built before the Tycopro came to be. I still have the dog-eared copies of Car Model magazine. Unfortunately my then-13 year old skills and access to what sounded like some exotic ingredients were not up to the task. Nevertheless, it was a marvelous piece of work that inspired me to improve within the bounds I had to work with at the time. Maybe I should consider it again...

Al


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## Pat Dennis (Jan 7, 2009)

ajd350 said:


> Thanks, Pat
> That was the answer that I expected, but I wasn't sure. It makes sense that a change was transitional until previous parts in the system ran out.
> 
> I remember re-reading your series on the Cobra you built before the Tycopro came to be. I still have the dog-eared copies of Car Model magazine. Unfortunately my then-13 year old skills and access to what sounded like some exotic ingredients were not up to the task. Nevertheless, it was a marvelous piece of work that inspired me to improve within the bounds I had to work with at the time. Maybe I should consider it again...
> ...


Al,

I’m please that you have managed to keep those CM magazines with the Cobra article. As far as “exotic materials” go, the only unusual requirements was a set of # drills and a visit to the dentist for the acrylic filling material – sometimes available in hobby shops as “acryjel”.

Are you aware that “SideJobJon” (John Falzarano) actually built a replica chassis recently and raced it in a gravity series in NJ?

Pat


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## ajd350 (Sep 18, 2005)

Pat, granted that it was all available at the time, the practical matter at 13y.o. was affording those things in the first place. Not to mention explaining to your parents why you would want to go to see the dentist (You want acry-what?) LOL. It's all a matter of perspective, although I did manage to build, as similarly as possible, the body using whatever was at hand. Seems more doable these days.


Al


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

Al's comment really struck home with me. 

Times were considerably different then. NASA was still inventing all the crap we now take for granted.

Things that may have been available to designers and engineers of that era didnt grow on trees and certainly werent available over the counter at Furgeson's Hardware store. 

Heck we were lucky to have the bare assortment of T-jet spares....Tyco parts were flat out unobtanium. Super glue hadnt been invented and expoxies were still pretty unreliable. Even today they still dont stick to nylatron for crap. Duct tape was still classified for gods sake! 

We held everything together with dog turds and spit. 


Fast forward....

Now everything you can possibly imagine is right at your finger tips. I can go back and properly build all my slot dreams... 'cept I cant 'member 'em!


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## ajd350 (Sep 18, 2005)

Man, Bill. You had dog turds to work with? I'd have been envious, and the spit? We had to save that to clean our AJ 007s. We did have boogers, though.:tongue:

Ever try to imagine how many thousands of comm brushes and pick-up springs went into landfills in carpets, sofas and chairs?
Al


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## ParkRNDL (Mar 20, 2002)

ajd350 said:


> (snip)
> 
> Ever try to imagine how many thousands of comm brushes and pick-up springs went into landfills in carpets, sofas and chairs?
> Al


hahahahahaha. i keep wondering... when archaeologists hit my basement floor a zillion years from now, what are they going to make of all the lost T-jet parts they find there?

--rick


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

*Idol worship*



ParkRNDL said:


> hahahahahaha. i keep wondering... when archaeologists hit my basement floor a zillion years from now, what are they going to make of all the lost T-jet parts they find there?
> 
> --rick



They'll think it was a shrine to a whacked out religion...

which is actually pretty close if ya think about it.


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## sidejobjon (Jun 3, 2010)

Pat Dennis said:


> Al,
> 
> I’m please that you have managed to keep those CM magazines with the Cobra article. As far as “exotic materials” go, the only unusual requirements was a set of # drills and a visit to the dentist for the acrylic filling material – sometimes available in hobby shops as “acryjel”.
> 
> ...


Pat,
I belive that artical to be the best step by step on Scratch building out there.
Great place to start if you want to get into BRASS WARS.
Thanks Pat for all you shared for this hobby.:thumbsup:


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## Pat Dennis (Jan 7, 2009)

Bill Hall said:


> Al's comment really struck home with me.
> 
> Times were considerably different then. NASA was still inventing all the crap we now take for granted.
> 
> ...


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

Bill & Al,
Although I did have a lot of materials and adhesives available to me in our lab (BTW Super Glue was invented and available then for industrial use - Eastman’s 910 @ $75/oz!), you must note that all materials mentioned in the Project Wide article had been purchased – or were available at local hobby shops. This was a logical requirement by CM. Oscar Koveleski (Auto World) even called me for the source to have available in his catalog. The epoxies mentioned were both available and worked quite well when processed as per the article. One of the most difficult aspects of writing those CM articles was breaking the process down into steps that the intended audience could handle and use only tools and materials available in hobby shops.

As far as finding anything to adhere to Nylatron, this is molybdenum filled Nylon. Molybdenum, by its natural properties will resist anything sticking to it – and Nylon isn’t much better. The only thing I could recommend- without any guarantees would be the adhesive used to replace rearview mirrors to windshields. This is an anaerobic type with an integral primer.
Pat[/QUOTE]

Sorry Pat,

My bad. I get pretty tongue in cheek.

Let me rephrase; because we were at different levels of the food chain during that era; my perception of the time was substantially different than yours. It was really tough to balance the budget in those days....mowing lawns!

It was simply a matter of economy.


As for the nylatron adhesion difficulties, fusion is the ticket. I just adapted welding techniques. I did have a few failures during the R&D; but once I worked it all out, it has proven to be more reliable than any commercial tube schlobber.










Because of the body chosen for this project, the basket handles were removed and the area was modified to provide the required support to prevent chassis hinging. The fusion process is also used to siamese the gear plates and attach the chassis extension.


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## Ralphthe3rd (Feb 24, 2011)

Wow Bill ! ....what in the heck is THAT Gonna be !?


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

Ralphthe3rd said:


> Wow Bill ! ....what in the heck is THAT Gonna be !?


... a six wheel Elf?


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## Pat Dennis (Jan 7, 2009)

Bill,

Regarding materials available in the mid 1960’s, I have to agree that it was a matter of available funds for the young reader. At that time, I was fully employed, so that made a big difference in what I could buy, but by only working on one project, the cost was not too bad.

Re: Joining Nylatron. I have played with fusion/welding and also found it difficult to guarantee a solid joint. Normally I machine brass plates and use screws or rivets.
Now, if you really want to come into the 21st century, you would draw the parts up in Solid Works 3D CAD program, email the file to a SLA (solid lithography) shop and receive a dead accurate plastic part in a few days, as we do now.

Pat


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## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

LOL @ Pat. yeah, I wish I could afford THAT! but, in a matter of time the technology will be available to more folks and we will see a lot more individually unique chassis designs at that time. by the way, thank you! al


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## Pat Dennis (Jan 7, 2009)

Al,

Your quite welcome. I thought the 21st century approach might get a comment or two.

Pat


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

Straight axles, and round wheels.... these were left in the 20th century.

Pat, so many innovations. I've always been a Tyco fan.
Would it be possible to resurrect production of some of the older Tyco chassis?


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

Ralphthe3rd said:


> Wow Bill ! ....what in the heck is THAT Gonna be !?....


Ralph, Thats a magna dually! 

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=215904&page=47

Here's a link to the truck....scroll to post 705. There's also a short video on page 46 "Birds of a Feather" post 688. 

I already hijacked this thread enough. My apologies for pokin' one of my mutant AFX's in a vintage Tyco history thread. I wasnt thinken'.


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

alpink said:


> LOL @ Pat. yeah, I wish I could afford THAT! but, in a matter of time the technology will be available to more folks and we will see a lot more individually unique chassis designs at that time. by the way, thank you! al


Second that Thanks,

I'm really enjoying the snips of history and your inside perspective of the golden age of slotting. We appreciate you taking the time. :thumbsup:


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## ajd350 (Sep 18, 2005)

Pat, 

I'm in with what Al and Bill said. Your talents have added so much to this hobby and it's history. (Am I gushing?). Can't help it, Pat. You have always been one of my heroes of the hobby. Thanks for that.

I dug out those old Car Model issues tonight, and I think I have all the stuff to build that Cobra. Just need to get on it....

Al


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## Pat Dennis (Jan 7, 2009)

NTxSlotCars said:


> Straight axles, and round wheels.... these were left in the 20th century.
> 
> Pat, so many innovations. I've always been a Tyco fan.
> Would it be possible to resurrect production of some of the older Tyco chassis?


Bill & Al,
Addressing your comments: I am extremely flattered - and somewhat embarrassed, at your remarks.
In retrospect, I think I happened to be the right guy at the right time. I am a decent engineer, a good innovator and a very good problem solver. I just was the first to develop HO racing as a serious & competitive hobby as opposed to a toy. This would not have happened without the cooperation and assistance of the small staff at Tyco HK.
What you have not seen are the many concepts that I have either prototyped or sketched out that were not accepted. I plan to pursue a few of these designs in the future. One of the problems of serious HO race cars is that the small size results in designs that border of watch-making. A good example is the Tyco Mk II project that I have undertaken – as seen on the RiggenHO site.

Regarding putting the original TycoPro back into production, this would require retooling everything. For instance, the molds for the guide flag were altered – twice. First, to convert from the heat-staked version to the snap-in, secondarily, for the “button-style” pickups. I am confident that all of the original tooling was scrapped out when Tyco shut down the original engineering, tooling and manufacturing facility and went with sourcing everything out. What can be done is to make “soft molds” from original parts and make a run of castings – however these would be rigid urethane (in various densities), as opposed to the original acetyl. This would be quite satisfactory for chassis, guide flags, etc, but not for the gears. I have such tooling for the guide flag that I am using to the Mk II run. Wipers can be photo-etched. I have a master for this and, again am making these parts for the Mk II. I have a local source for larger runs at reasonable costs, but, as I have no need for quantities greater than the Mk II run, I have not pursued it.

I hope this answers your comments/questions.
Pat


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## Ralphthe3rd (Feb 24, 2011)

Pat, when NTxSlotcars was asking about older chassis being brought back, I don't think he was referring to the TycoPro chassis, but instead I think he was hoping for HP2 or HP7 style chassis, but correct me if I'm wrong Rich ?


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## Pat Dennis (Jan 7, 2009)

Ralphthe3rd said:


> Pat, when NTxSlotcars was asking about older chassis being brought back, I don't think he was referring to the TycoPro chassis, but instead I think he was hoping for HP2 or HP7 style chassis, but correct me if I'm wrong Rich ?


You could be correct. I have little or no interest in magnetically attracted HO cars - sorry.

Pat


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## Ralphthe3rd (Feb 24, 2011)

*Same Here, Pat....*



Pat Dennis said:


> You could be correct. I have little or no interest in magnetically attracted HO cars - sorry.
> 
> Pat


 Yeah, the current magnet cars kept me from coming back to H.O. slots in the 1980's and 1990's, although I did get back into slots(in yr 2000) with the 'Mattel' Jeremy McGrath MX bikes using the 440x2 variant chassis. But after several years messing with them and calling my layout 1/24scale(coz of the Bike size). I finally *drifted back to non magnet cars. Athough sorry to *Drift away from the OP by admitting I've come back to Pancake(non neo)Chassis cars, and am lovin the heck out of them *drifting around the curves on my track  .


*Drift =Keyword and Pun, as I love to slide the tail end of my slotcars.


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## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

I get the 'drift'!


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

*Training wheels*



Pat Dennis said:


> You could be correct. I have little or no interest in magnetically attracted HO cars - sorry.
> 
> Pat


So ....uh....what do you use for cleaning your track then? :devil:

Not so far back I reworked a vintage brass chassis that needed some help. It arrived with a Tyco flag and mangled foils. I converted it to braids and then eventually built my own pseudo picard braid holder with a pin for a guide (simple and dirt cheap). The 'buchi can was converted with 440 guts. The package proved to be robust and reliable, but the bonus was the GREAT tail out fun that you could power in and out of predictably. 




























I'm trying to figure out what the big attraction to the flag is; as it appears to compromise handling during oversteer when it binds the pivot point? Right?

Perhaps it's my driving style, but flagged cars have a hitch in their git-a-long when the tail exceeds what the flag pivot can supply at the limit; usually resulting in a highside deslot.

Sadly many will never know the big car feel in a little car. Fast, loose, and FUN is what the Tyco Pro and Riggen type cars provided. Today many HO folks are fragging their mags and plugging weight to find that feeling again...but plugged plastic piles just arent the same as a handcrafted slab of finely tuned brass.


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## ParkRNDL (Mar 20, 2002)

Bill Hall said:


> (snip)
> 
> 
> 
> ...












This car blows me away. The simplicity is genius. I'm sure I've seen it posted before, just never looked close. Now with my newfound interest in old Tycos, it grabbed my attention. Are there more details on this posted here somewhere? Specifically, what kind of chassis and what does the top of it look like?

--rick


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## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

*Bill Hall's Model Murdering*



ParkRNDL said:


> This car blows me away. The simplicity is genius. I'm sure I've seen it posted before, just never looked close. Now with my newfound interest in old Tycos, it grabbed my attention. Are there more details on this posted here somewhere? Specifically, what kind of chassis and what does the top of it look like?
> 
> --rick


page back through Bill Hall's Model Murdering for the complete build and excellent pictures

.


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