# ROAR ,,Helping or Hurting ??



## NCFRC (Aug 4, 2005)

With what I've viewed , I find it hard to believe they help the sport much.

If your a major manufacturer / distritributor and have alot of ______

then you can get just about anything passed.

What's the deal with a Komodo dragon coming with a hemi armature ??

Tracks have fought since the first C-1 came out to only have cross-wrapped

and the roar rules always said NO to hemi's.

But here we go forced to buy new motors ,,,,,, a hemi will blow you away !!

Batteries , Motors . ect , Come on guys , Think a little !  

BUT REMEMBER TRACKS , YOU DON'T HAVE TO FOLLOW THEIR RULES


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## NCFRC (Aug 4, 2005)

bump up


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## KOZ (Mar 8, 2002)

Who's ROAR?


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## Tommygun43 (Nov 17, 2002)

Well, from what I've seen, Dawn puts in quite a bit of effort to answer racers questions on the ROAR thread and make ROAR and the hobby better. She wants to get roar going in the right direction and she is always positive. I think she's leaving ROAR, that's too bad. I appreciate ROAR's efforts (and anyone elses efforts) to make R/C better and would support them.

I think they would do alot better if they lowered or got rid of their membership fee and just charged a small fee to race their events. Alot of people don't go to ROAR races because they don't want to pay the yearly or single event membership fee.

I think alot of organizations (and track owners for that matter) need to ask racers what they want as far as classes, rules, race times, etc. 

I don't understand why organizations and track owners don't get together on here and work with each other.


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## swtour (Oct 8, 2001)

> I think they would do alot better if they lowered or got rid of their membership fee and just charged a small fee to race their events. Alot of people don't go to ROAR races because they don't want to pay the yearly or single event membership fee.


The 30 or 35 bucks a year ROAR charges is only what...3 bucks a month, that's not even equal to a GALLON of Gasonline these days.

With that, that money goes toward salaries for those who are employed by ROAR ... plus the insurance they provide, and any and all of the other expenses ROAR has.

I don't know what the position of Vice President or President, or any of the other positions w/ ROAR pay...but for the crap those people put up with, I can tell you..it AINT enough.

...now, do I think ROAR helps much? Nah, not really...in the current R/C Climate. But that's mostly OUR (the racers) fault IMHO.


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## NCFRC (Aug 4, 2005)

I think alot of organizations (and track owners for that matter) need to ask racers what they want as far as classes, rules, race times, etc. 

I don't understand why organizations and track owners don't get together on here and work with each other.

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That's all I'm saying is just because something is ROAR approved doesn't mean
it should be legal at all tracks.

I don't know the lady at ROAR and I'm not slamming her , I applaud anyone
with a positive attitude and who really cares about what they do everyday.


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## ammdrew (Mar 12, 2003)

ROAR excomm are none paid postions, only Fred is paid. Everyone else is volunteer. The money goes back in body and electronic aprovals, and newletter/website work, and the RMT program. Printing of the Rule book. etc etc.


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## Tommygun43 (Nov 17, 2002)

I forgot to anwswer the initial question. I agree with this totally:


swtour said:


> ...now, do I think ROAR helps much? Nah, not really...in the current R/C Climate. But that's mostly OUR (the racers) fault IMHO.


I think they have alot of potential if they made some changes, that was my point I guess.


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## pmsimkins (Nov 4, 2004)

As far as oval racing goes they are kind of irrelavent at the moment. Since most of us aren't running a ROAR sanctioned class anymore it makes little difference what is legal or what isn't. I give them a lot of credit for allowing the popular unsanctioned classes to now run at the Nats. Sadly they are probably more in touch with what is going on in the oval world then the oval only organization is.

The paved nats were certainly a success this year.


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## Dawn Sanchez (Feb 25, 2003)

wow... I just happened to see this one.. I typically only respond to the threads on the ROAR forum on this site because of.. well, time.. 

ROAR staff is not paid. The Administrator, a non voting position, is paid a very minimal salary for the work he does. You can check the financials that are published twice a year to see that. ROAR officials are volunteer. Easily, 4 hours of each day are spent on ROAR business by each officer to ensure the best ever for you, the member.

The $30.00 annual pays for the individual membership liability costs to the insurance carrier plus fees incurred for running an organization. Again, the financial statements are very easy to follow and if not.. no ROAR officer will deny you an answer if asked. 

Lowering membership fees will not increase the membership and will only decrease the value of the liability. Trust me, 1 million bucks doesn't go far enough when a racer smashes his run away through a hobby shop window and strikes an unsuspecting individual. Rather dramatic example.. but it does make the point. For .08 a day, you are covered liability wise.

More importantly, ROAR rules have been around for 40 years and are the template for all racing in the USA. You might not race at a track that uses ROAR but I'll bet you anything, there is a close similarity. ROAR events are the same, no matter where you go...(sure that might be a bad thing... I have heard it all... LOL) and the consistency is to be expected.

Our ROAR President has done quite a bit the last few years ensuring growth and stabiltiy in our programs. RMT is a good thing... needs a few tweaks, and we knew that when we started it.... ROAR will grow and move with the times.

I saw the opening post of this thread... to answer this quickly, the hemi wind 19T was approved as of July of this year... AFTER THE ELECTRIC NATIONALS... because hemi winds are more commonly built by all manufacturers but the supply of cross wound needed to be depleted. This was ROAR working with the MFG's... it was their request and the membership's request to move along into this technology.

I hope you all have placed your votes for the upcoming election... Andrew Mowery, see post above, is running for Vice President and I personally feel he will do an awesome job!!

Yours in ROAR - 
Dawn Sanchez
ROAR VP


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## Tommygun43 (Nov 17, 2002)

Dawn Sanchez said:


> The $30.00 annual pays for the individual membership liability costs to the insurance carrier plus fees incurred for running an organization. Again, the financial statements are very easy to follow and if not.. no ROAR officer will deny you an answer if asked.
> 
> Lowering membership fees will not increase the membership and will only decrease the value of the liability. Trust me, 1 million bucks doesn't go far enough when a racer smashes his run away through a hobby shop window and strikes an unsuspecting individual. Rather dramatic example.. but it does make the point. For .08 a day, you are covered liability wise.


I understand that $30.00 is a bargain, but I feel to alot of others it's not.

It usually goes like this:

"Hey 'racer X' are you going to the ROAR Regionals?"
"Maybe, do you have to be a ROAR member?"
"Ya"
"Oh, how much is it to race?"
"$80"
"Oh I don't have $80 I'm not going"
"Oh well if your not going, I'm not going and neither is our buddies A, B, and C"

It just seems like a $5 or $10 fee per race would get more racers to go.


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## Dawn Sanchez (Feb 25, 2003)

Tommygun43 said:


> It just seems like a $5 or $10 fee per race would get more racers to go.


Yep.. point made.. 

That's why regionals take the single event membership for those who typically only run one event a year.. $15.00 for the event coverage and its a lay a way system.. another $15.00 later in the year at another event (not national though) and you got the full coverage.

Also, the host track gets to keep $5.00 for every new membership... so your actually helping out the hobby shop/track that has agreed to hold the event.... ROAR publishes recommendations of entry fees to help and suggestions as to what to spend on trophies as well.


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## BullFrog (Sep 24, 2002)

That's an old argument about the ROAR membership prices. Look if membership was not charged and there were no published rules to go by. Plus is the 15.00- 30.00 really going to buy you than extra new piece of equipment for the race?Now with the event of brushless motors and lipo batteries everything is in a transittion phase.If not ROAR coming up with some type of rules who's it going to be? ROAR is independent of the manufacturers but works with them.The insurance alone is worth the membership. Go out and try to get someplace to race and price the insurance.Go talk with your city about an RC park. With a ROAR book in your hand and some type if insurance you've got a chance. Without it your wasting your time.I've seen these many times here in Florida- how ROAR has helped getting these race sites from private individuals and Cities.Without ROAR there would not be many of the places you race around.I will say our series (FSEARA) has been ROAR santioned for going on 27 years. We come up with ideas which were later made into ROAR rules everyone has followed for many years.ROAR exists for the RACERS to use to get race facilites to race .It has always given us the basic rules which can be modified for a local or state race.Everyone uses these rules and with it written down there is no changing the rules at the last minute like that can happen at a non santioned race.Or even the promoters last minute switch because of a favor to a special driver or factory.
X Region Director...........
The lastest track site in Jacksonville was gotten because of ROAR.In a new parksite and will be finished in May of 2008.


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## FishRC (Sep 28, 2001)

Granted most drivers will never attend a Worlds or even a nationals as a driver. But ROAR is the one responsible for drivers in the USA. There rules partly have to prepare divers for worlds event as well as work with manufactures to keep things somewhat in a semblance of order. Sadly most drivers will still respond, "I don't go to a Worlds/National so it does not help me." Not true, without ROAR working with IFMAR and the manufactures the chances of a class of racing across multiple manufactures would not exist. So your 1/10 th electric Losi would be far different from an Associated and I'm not taking little construction differences. One might be a 12" wheelbase compared to a 14". Instead of 2.2 wheels one might have 2.0 and the other 2.8. The Trinity stock might be a 27 turn and the Fantom might be a 21 turn. What if you had to have a Losi XXX-CR to use a Mamba Brushless and Novak brushless only fit in an Associated. So on that front alone having common standards alone opens up a world of options for the drivers and they never even have to pay a penny, yet are rewarded greatly with equipment they can take from one track to another and still run. 
Cost is almost the laughable part. Drivers will spend $100’s on equipment and hop-ups and then cry a river if they have to pay $50 for a big event. The simple fact is that if someone could do it cheaper and better it would have happened long ago. Why has it not happened? Easy! To do it cheaper is not possible.


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## NCFRC (Aug 4, 2005)

I saw the opening post of this thread... to answer this quickly, the hemi wind 19T was approved as of July of this year... AFTER THE ELECTRIC NATIONALS... because hemi winds are more commonly built by all manufacturers but the supply of cross wound needed to be depleted. This was ROAR working with the MFG's... it was their request and the membership's request to move along into this technology.



Yours in ROAR - 
Dawn Sanchez
ROAR VP[/QUOTE]


I'm not sure about the hemi winds being more common ???
Sounds to me that someone has a very good salesperson
and their company wanted to have the fastest fixed timing
19 available. Very typical of this manufaturer, do whats good
for them , not the overall sport.

Just my opinion :thumbsup:


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## Tommygun43 (Nov 17, 2002)

FishRC, thanks for explaining, although I was aware that ROAR benefits those that are not members.


FishRC said:


> Cost is almost the laughable part. Drivers will spend $100’s on equipment and hop-ups and then cry a river if they have to pay $50 for a big event.


 With all due respect, I guess I need to make you aware that some people actually race for fun and don't spend gobs of money on R/C equipment. I am tired of seeing this assumption over and over again on here, people talk about what's killing racing, this is a big reason! Tell a newbie it costs 3 grand to get into R/C...wonderful! I know several people that race on old and borrowed equipment. 



FishRC said:


> The simple fact is that if someone could do it cheaper and better it would have happened long ago. Why has it not happened? Easy! To do it cheaper is not possible.


 To say a business, whether it's for profit or not, can't do it cheaper or better seems awful closed minded. There is always room for improvement. I am not suggesting doing it cheaper. I was suggesting drop the membership fee and just tack on $5 or $10 to each roar race. That should not bring in less money to ROAR.

With all that said, I forgot a single day membership was so cheap...$15.00. 

Like I said, just trying to make roar aware of what people say. Maybe roar needs to make a flyer explaining the benefits of being a ROAR member to better educate people?


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## 420 Tech R/C (Sep 15, 2006)

alright, heres the low down. roar is holding up the progression of the racing world, that's why we have so many other organizations popping up(BRL,FTMS) and club racers setting up their own rules to run by. as for roars liability insurance, JUNK!! we had our local club get sued because someone got hurt during an exhibition at a public gathering.ALL people involved were roar members, the track was setup with barriers under roars guidelines, and all safety precautions were taken.Some one just decided to step over the barrier fence and walk on to the track, and got their ankle broke by a sedan.Should have been covered by the liability insurance right???NOPE. It wasnt a roar sanctioned event so they covered NOTHING. The club was left holding the bag to deal with a liability suit, so track operators beware, just because everyone attending your events is a roar member, dont think that's going to save your butt.Now we have no local club racing scene because everybody is afraid to stick their neck out. Thanks for the awesome liability coverage ROAR.


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## ScottH (Nov 24, 2005)

420 -- I think you guys might ought to check out the ROAR site as pertaining to the insurance.

It is not junk, you have to play by their rules to get the insurance to work. It has to be a sanctioned race, as you stated and IF the track in on another property, they have to be named as well.

When you guys became a ROAR Club, if you did, you get all this info so you know how to C.Y.A.

Not bashing ya man.

BUT if the rules are followed, they have to cover you, the hitch is a ROAR "sanctioned event".


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## BullFrog (Sep 24, 2002)

Plain and simple if it was a ROAR santioned race. Was the property owner listed?Just because the racers were ROAR members has nothing to do with it. If it was santioned is one thing and not a santioned event is something else.If you have questions about the way the insurance works you can contact the ROAR office. The $65.00 to list the property owner on the racing location is cheap.


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## Stateline R/C (Apr 2, 2005)

i carry my own insurance, heard to many horror stories


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## FishRC (Sep 28, 2001)

Tommygun43 said:


> With all due respect, I guess I need to make you aware that some people actually race for fun and don't spend gobs of money on R/C equipment. I am tired of seeing this assumption over and over again on here, people talk about what's killing racing, this is a big reason! Tell a newbie it costs 3 grand to get into R/C...wonderful! I know several people that race on old and borrowed equipment.






Tommygun43, I'm not trying to scare the ones trying to get into racing or even the ones looking at it. It’s not the guy running a T2 or XXX-T out there griping about the cost of racing. Often the drivers with less are happier because the run for the fun. More often its the guy with the better equipment that will at the same time cry about the cost. 





Tommygun43 said:


> To say a business, whether it's for profit or not, can't do it cheaper or better seems awful closed minded. There is always room for improvement. I am not suggesting doing it cheaper. I was suggesting drop the membership fee and just tack on $5 or $10 to each roar race. That should not bring in less money to ROAR.






If seeing 20+ years of folks crying how bad ROAR is and yet no one has stepped up and replaced ROAR is closed minded, ok. But to date there are a number of sanction bodies out there and not one has gotten past taking on a maybe national standing. 





Tommygun43 said:


> Maybe roar needs to make a flyer explaining the benefits of being a ROAR member to better educate people?





http://www.roarracing.com/about.php

http://www.roarracing.com/downloads/admincolumju06.pdf (insurance)

Already done if any choose to look.


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## Tommygun43 (Nov 17, 2002)

Good points Fishrc.


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