# Sneak Peek At Polar Lights King Kong



## fernieo

Looking good:
http://www.collectormodel.com/round...ights-model-kits-4-weeks-of-christmas-part-3/


----------



## Cajjunwolfman

Like it!


----------



## spocks beard

VERY nice!
Before i saw the preview pics, I thought it would just be a sculpt of a silver back Gorilla.

This really captures the look of the original 1933 Kong so many other artists fail to render.:thumbsup:

The T-Rex/Allosaurus looks spot on as well.
Will definitely be buying this when it's released.:dude:


----------



## RMC

awesome scuplt !........I did not even know they were doing this......


----------



## djnick66

Cool I hadn't heard about this in a few years... seems to have been dormant


----------



## JeffBond

That looks absolutely fantastic.


----------



## SUNGOD

Holy *%"*!!!!! Where did that come from.

Before I get too excited though..............is this styrene or resin? If it's resin like the Kane sculpt then I couldn't care less but if it's styrene............then count me in BIG time!


----------



## xsavoie

Holy cow.This is some awesome kit.:thumbsup:


----------



## BatToys

WOW! I'll buy one.

Hope to see a Fay Wray figure option added.


----------



## SUNGOD

I wish PL would clearly state what medium the kit will be though. I'm still unsure if the Wicked Witch is resin or plastic too.


----------



## aurora fan

Best Kong I've seen


----------



## BWolfe

SUNGOD said:


> Holy *%"*!!!!! Where did that come from.
> 
> Before I get too excited though..............is this styrene or resin? If it's resin like the Kane sculpt then I couldn't care less but if it's styrene............then count me in BIG time!


I agree, resin always equals double or even triple the price of a similar size styrene kit and that puts it out of reach of my limited funds. Vinyl would be OK you can get great detail and the price is usually close to the peice of most styrene kits.


----------



## djnick66

SUNGOD said:


> I wish PL would clearly state what medium the kit will be though. I'm still unsure if the Wicked Witch is resin or plastic too.


The With is PLASTIC... been said a bazillion times.


----------



## John P

Brilliant, brilliant, BRILLIANT!!! Excellent action pose, and using the rex as a "base" is inspired.


----------



## derric1968

Jamie has answered the resin or styrene question in the blog comments, and the answer is <drum roll>....... resin.

I have to say, it really makes sense. It would be hard to do that sculpt justice in styrene. I don't mind resin as a material. It's really not as exotic as some of you here (you know who you are) make it out to be. 

However, I'm not crazy about the cost of resin kits. That's why I love what Pegasus has been doing with their figure kits. By using a different type of plastic, they have figured out how to produce kits that are very resin-like in terms of the level of detail they can achieve, but can be sold at styrene-like prices. It's a terrific compromise as far as I'm concerned, and I really wish Round 2 and Moebius would take a close look at what they are doing.

Anyway, that Kong sculpt is absolutely gorgeous!!! I'm sure it will be a fantastic kit and I think this will be a big seller. The garage kit guys are going to eat this up! I predict ravenous consumption. It's easy to forget, in our little world here, that there is a whole community of kit builders out there who wont touch styrene with a ten foot pole.


----------



## djnick66

I don't dislike resin. At least with it being a Round 2 kit, availability will be better than most grage kits that you have to buy from some skechy third party dealer via Pay Pal. And, if you are patient, you can get good deals. I snagged one of the Moebius Conan kits MISB for $25.


----------



## apls

I wish someone would post these pictures, I am having trouble trying to see them.


----------



## RMC

apls said:


> I wish someone would post these pictures, I am having trouble trying to see them.


Go to the round2models.com website and see the pics in the blog


----------



## SUNGOD

derric1968 said:


> Jamie has answered the resin or styrene question in the blog comments, and the answer is <drum roll>....... resin.
> 
> I have to say, it really makes sense. It would be hard to do that sculpt justice in styrene. I don't mind resin as a material. It's really not as exotic as some of you here (you know who you are) make it out to be.
> 
> However, I'm not crazy about the cost of resin kits. That's why I love what Pegasus has been doing with their figure kits. By using a different type of plastic, they have figured out how to produce kits that are very resin-like in terms of the level of detail they can achieve, but can be sold at styrene-like prices. It's a terrific compromise as far as I'm concerned, and I really wish Round 2 and Moebius would take a close look at what they are doing.
> 
> Anyway, that Kong sculpt is absolutely gorgeous!!! I'm sure it will be a fantastic kit and I think this will be a big seller. The garage kit guys are going to eat this up! I predict ravenous consumption. It's easy to forget, in our little world here, that there is a whole community of kit builders out there who wont touch styrene with a ten foot pole.








Bummer. Thought it was too good to be true that we'd get a new Kong kit in styrene....especially a sculpt like that.

*I thought Polar Lights was supposed to be a plastic kit manufacturer not a bloody garage kit manufacturer.*


----------



## SUNGOD

djnick66 said:


> The With is PLASTIC... been said a bazillion times.








Well at least I'll buy the Witch then. Honestly though..........there's some great garage kit sculpts about and garage kits have their place, but we're getting some great new Marvel sculpts like Wolverine and thor in plastic so why can't PL do a new Kong kit in plastic?

I know these boards aren't representative of everyone but quite a few people have been asking for a new plastic Kong kit. They're doing the Wicked Witch in plastic yet hardly anybody asked for that.


----------



## apls

I still cannot see these pictures.


----------



## Frankie Boy

I can't see any pics either.


----------



## derric1968

I think the Round 2 blog is experiencing technical difficulties. Every blog post is empty. It's not just the Kong post. Literally *every* post is empty. Weird! :freak:


----------



## apls

Maybe Polar Lights jumped the gun and pulled back the announcement.


----------



## MEGA1

Round 2 has been quite mysterious about King Kong, every time we contact them either directly or through our distributors, we get no information, just that the project exists. We're trying so hard to even find out a price range for what it will be, but they won't let on to it. Sounds like a storyline for a Sherlock Holmes novel:

Round 2 and the Secrets of King Kong!


----------



## djnick66

SUNGOD said:


> Well at least I'll buy the Witch then. Honestly though..........there's some great garage kit sculpts about and garage kits have their place, but we're getting some great new Marvel sculpts like Wolverine and thor in plastic so why can't PL do a new Kong kit in plastic?
> 
> I know these boards aren't representative of everyone but quite a few people have been asking for a new plastic Kong kit. They're doing the Wicked Witch in plastic yet hardly anybody asked for that.


Because some subject details like fur and scales come out like crap in plastic... look at the Aurora Godzilla or Kong. Or the Wolf Man. 

For some reason people think that resin equals a garage kit. Revell has even had kits with resin parts or all vinyl kits. Its not 1957 anymore. 

I still like plastic but have no problem with resin. You can actually build and finish a good resin kit in 1/10 the time it takes to do a plastic model.


----------



## SUNGOD

djnick66 said:


> Because some subject details like fur and scales come out like crap in plastic... look at the Aurora Godzilla or Kong. Or the Wolf Man.
> 
> For some reason people think that resin equals a garage kit. Revell has even had kits with resin parts or all vinyl kits. Its not 1957 anymore.
> 
> I still like plastic but have no problem with resin. You can actually build and finish a good resin kit in 1/10 the time it takes to do a plastic model.







That's right it's not 1957 anymore and with todays technology plastic kits can be just as good as 99% of resin kits if not 100%. 

This is all about making things cheaply and selling them for a lot. Nothing else. there's no reason why they can't do that in plastic and I take issue that you can finish a good resin kit in 1/10 the time it takes to do a plastic model. For a start you can stick plastic together a lot easier than resin and there's no comparison. You also don't have to be ultra careful with it in case it falls to bits.

You ask most people whether they prefer plastic to resin kits and I can guarantee at least 75% would say they prefer plastic.......probably higher.

And also the Aurora Godzilla, Wolf man and Kong are all old plastic kits from the 50s and 60s.


----------



## Matthew Green

I am a plastic only modeler too. IMM...In my mind, the resin kits ARE garage kits. I know the level of detail can be made in a plastic model kit. That saying is a copout. I mean just look at the awesome plastic kits we have seen. Look at McFarlane's plastic statues. Wow.


----------



## Parts Pit Mike

For some reason I cannot see the photo.


----------



## SUNGOD

Matthew Green said:


> I am a plastic only modeler too. IMM...In my mind, the resin kits ARE garage kits. I know the level of detail can be made in a plastic model kit. That saying is a copout. I mean just look at the awesome plastic kits we have seen. Look at McFarlane's plastic statues. Wow.







Exactly. I think them doing a new Kong kit in resin is a copout too and some people seem to have this bizarre notion that what a kit's made of doesn't matter.......as long as it looks good. That to me is complete nonsense as there's many people who only build plastic kits and avoid resin.

I bet 99% of people look to companies like Polar Lights for plastic kits and not resin *as that's what they're known for*. Leave that to the garage guys.


----------



## BatToys

It said King Kong details would be trappable in a styrene mold but wouldn't a resin mold have the same problem?


----------



## djnick66

No

Injection molded kits are done in metal molds. The parts have to be able to slide free of the mold so there are natural concessions (and mold ejector pin marks).

For example, something like a thick rectangular box or structure, like what you might see on a ship, can not slide out of the mold, so it has to be tapered a bit. That means what would be all true and square in real life becomes a sloped shape on a model.

Metal molds by nature can not handle undercutting on the sides of parts. Thats why if you have something thick it has more detail on the top and less detail on the sides and more or less no detail along the seam.

Something complicated like Kong's head would have to be done in parts, like the old Aurora kit. That one had left and right halves, a face, and mouth insert. A resin head can be cast in one large piece and can even be cast along with the body.

Resin is a pourable and injectable liquid. Kits are cast more like you would cast ceramics or lead soldiers. You can use a one piece mold and since its rubber and flexible the cast item just pops out complete and in one big piece with all of the undercutting and detail all around. Or, you can have a two part traditional "clamshell" style mold but again, because it is flexible, the detail will extend all around the cast item, and you can have more undercutting.

Resin kits are cheaper to produce in the long run too. A lot of it now is done in pressure pots to eliminate air bubbles etc. and the castings are quite clean. But it is vastly cheaper than the costs to tool up a metal mold. I know 30 years ago an AMT car mold could run $500,000 or more. You can buy most of the stuff to do your own resin kit at Hobby Lobby for $100 or less. 

The cost of a completed resin kit stem from the fact that they are usually done by hand and not a machine that makes 500 pieces in 20 minutes. Someone has to hand pour each piece. There is a higher failure rate and parts have to be inspected by hand. If you cast your own stuff you will find this out. You get one good casting, three bad ones, one good one, etc. The resin itself is expensive compared to pennies for plastic pellets. The rubber molds have to be replaced frequently, and that takes time and more human labor. And the kits are usually limited so costs are recouped by selling fewer kits at a higher price.


----------



## djnick66

SUNGOD said:


> That's right it's not 1957 anymore and with todays technology plastic kits can be just as good as 99% of resin kits if not 100%.
> 
> This is all about making things cheaply and selling them for a lot. Nothing else. there's no reason why they can't do that in plastic and I take issue that you can finish a good resin kit in 1/10 the time it takes to do a plastic model. For a start you can stick plastic together a lot easier than resin and there's no comparison. You also don't have to be ultra careful with it in case it falls to bits.
> 
> You ask most people whether they prefer plastic to resin kits and I can guarantee at least 75% would say they prefer plastic.......probably higher.
> 
> And also the Aurora Godzilla, Wolf man and Kong are all old plastic kits from the 50s and 60s.


I prefer resin but injection molded plastic, even today CAN NOT duplicate the results you get with resin "100 percent or better". Period. If you did a kit like Kong or Godzilla or the Wolfman in plastic today you would have exactly the same issues you would have in the 60s (The Aurora Monsters were NOT done in the 50s). The Monarch Gorgo has the same issues. They are inherent to plastic. Anytime something has to be cast in halves in a solid metal mold there will be smooth areas around the seams.


----------



## John P

Garage kits are called garage kits because they're produced by one guy working out of his garage with limited means.

By definition, a resin model produced by a big model kit company is NOT a garage kit.


----------



## Anton Phibes

Plastic: Bought

Resin: pass

Why: resin costs more . I dont wanna pay $100-$200 for a new model. $45-50 would've been doable. But my $150-200 days for kits are long gone.

Here's the pics no one seems to be able to post/see:


----------



## Anton Phibes

John P said:


> Garage kits are called garage kits because they're produced by one guy working out of his garage with limited means.





Initially yes---but not anymore.:thumbsup: Most garage kit fellas nowadays make better stuff than those without "limited means". Jeff Yagher, Mike Hill, Mark Brokaw,and many many more have a system that trumps mass produced items. 

But garage kits arent cheap. Because they have to pay the sculptor for the initial sculpt, they are made of resin, and since the fan base is limited (because not everyone is gonna shuck otu $150-300 for a kit) they seem a little more primitive by some folks' standards. the reality is, they are better. But, unfortunately, much more costly.

But I would buy a Yagher "garage" Frankenstein any day over that dreadful plastic kit where Frankie is walking thru the door. One looks like Karloff. the other looks like a friend of mine who works at the funeral home.:tongue: I am betting you can figure which is which.


----------



## Tim Casey

Whoa! Thanks for the picture! I'm getting one!

Funny how this conversation is going... I've recently given up on styrene models after trying to deal with the seam lines on the Broadway Dracula. It just wasn't worth the effort.

I know resin kits are more expensive, but they're works of art. I put in a lot of hours when I build a kit, and for the most part resin is easier to deal with IMHO. If I'm going to spend a lot of time on it, I don't want to waste any of that time just trying to make the seams go away.

I don't go broke doing this because there's only so much room in my house for models. I maybe buy 3 resin kits in a good year.

I'm glad that everyone still prefers the styrenes, though. I wouldn't want my decision to hurt Moebius or PL.


----------



## mach7

Can I just say, some here are not happy with Kong. Why?

Most of us did not know this was even in the works.

We have NO idea how much Kong will cost.

Resin kits are really no harder to build than an injection molded kit.
Just use C/A glue instead of a solvent glue.

The detail will be better in resin.

Why can't we wait and see how the kit turns out?

If you don't want a resin kit, don't buy it. You are no worse off than you 
were before Kong was announced.

I'm not trying to be confrontational here, but I'm kind of perplexed at the
vitriol some posters are directing at this kit.

I to prefer injection molding to resin, For me it's more of a nostalgic deal.
That's what I built as a kid, but I don't fear resin. I have built many and have many more in my stash. They build into very nice models.

Every kit is a sacrifice in design. Not every kit is perfect. R2 made a business decision to do some kits in resin. They did not do it to piss off the customers! They did it because they thought it was the best, most cost effective way to bring the kit to market. Why don't we give them the chance and see how it comes out.


----------



## Anton Phibes

Just an FYI--I aint being hateful towards the kit. I think its great. But I have been collecting stuff for 20+ years, and dont live in mansion with unlimited space. I also no longer have as much income to "blow" as I once had before the world/nation's economy started her bobsled ride to hell. That's all.

The jit is magnificent. But if I had space and funds for a resin kit at this point---I probably would have bought

Robert Prince's Black Sunday
X-O Facto's Curse of the Demon and I Married a Monster from Outer Space, and many others that were released in resin this year. Instead---I am hoping to buy a styrene plastic Gorgo kit next year for $45.

Like I said---kit is great. i wouldnt have taken the time to post the pic for those who couldnt see it if I didnt like it myself. But reality unfortunately has encrouched on my additions to my man cave,lol.:thumbsup:

I love the crap. But, unfortunately, at this point its choose between toys and food.:tongue:


----------



## SUNGOD

Anton Phibes said:


> Plastic: Bought
> 
> Resin: pass
> 
> Why: resin costs more . I dont wanna pay $100-$200 for a new model. $45-50 would've been doable. But my $150-200 days for kits are long gone.
> 
> Here's the pics no one seems to be able to post/see:





There's absolutely no reason on earth why a resin kit should cost more than a plastic kit (let alone $100,$200) so why some people are selling them for so much I don't know. 
There again if people are stupid enough to pay it. I think some people think more work goes into them or something. 

I'd be prepared to pay much more for a plastic kit as the costs of tooling them up are so much more.


----------



## SUNGOD

mach7 said:


> Can I just say, some here are not happy with Kong. Why?
> 
> Most of us did not know this was even in the works.
> 
> We have NO idea how much Kong will cost.
> 
> Resin kits are really no harder to build than an injection molded kit.
> Just use C/A glue instead of a solvent glue.
> 
> The detail will be better in resin.
> 
> Why can't we wait and see how the kit turns out?
> 
> If you don't want a resin kit, don't buy it. You are no worse off than you
> were before Kong was announced.
> 
> I'm not trying to be confrontational here, but I'm kind of perplexed at the
> vitriol some posters are directing at this kit.
> 
> I to prefer injection molding to resin, For me it's more of a nostalgic deal.
> That's what I built as a kid, but I don't fear resin. I have built many and have many more in my stash. They build into very nice models.
> 
> Every kit is a sacrifice in design. Not every kit is perfect. R2 made a business decision to do some kits in resin. They did not do it to piss off the customers! They did it because they thought it was the best, most cost effective way to bring the kit to market. Why don't we give them the chance and see how it comes out.







But if everything was down to the cost of moulds etc...........we'd have no injection kits at all and everything would be resin or vinyl. It's not a case of fearing resin. I've built some resin kits but I just much prefer plastic kits. 

It's the whole experience not just what something looks like built up. It's the feel of the parts, the immortality of plastic etc.


----------



## Frankie Boy

Thanks for pic._ Very_ cool! 
Unfortunately, if this is going to be in resin, rather than styrene (plastic), then I'll have to pass.


----------



## SUNGOD

djnick66 said:


> I prefer resin but injection molded plastic, even today CAN NOT duplicate the results you get with resin "100 percent or better". Period. If you did a kit like Kong or Godzilla or the Wolfman in plastic today you would have exactly the same issues you would have in the 60s (The Aurora Monsters were NOT done in the 50s). The Monarch Gorgo has the same issues. They are inherent to plastic. Anytime something has to be cast in halves in a solid metal mold there will be smooth areas around the seams.





So what if there are a few seams. Just sand and if necessary rescribe them. I've got Monarchs Nosferatu and there was a seam between the 2 head parts. I just filled them in and you can't see the seam anymore. Todays toolings can be made in a way that makes seams much less visible anyway.

Not to mention that some resin kits have loads of holes in them, they're brittle and fall to bits after a while. Even resin that isn't so brittle is nowhere near as strong as injection plastic.


----------



## mcdougall

Can't wait for this to come out :thumbsup:
Resin works for me 
Denis


----------



## BatToys

While I like the nostalgia of styrene, the Kong kits faithful sculpting makes me want to buy it. I don't mind resin in this case.

So resin molds are flexible. I knew they were for homemade kits but wasn't sure if big companies made them steel like styrene. Thanks for the explanation.


----------



## Jimmy B

mcdougall said:


> Can't wait for this to come out :thumbsup:
> Resin works for me
> Denis


I don't care if its made of Styrofoam. I'm snagging that baby!!


----------



## Frankie Boy

For me, it's not the material, per se, but the price (ie: resin vs styrene).


----------



## BatToys

I think the moral to King Kong is you can be the biggest strongest guy on your block but if you meet the wrong woman you can get your *** kicked. What man can't relate to that?


----------



## scotpens

BatToys said:


> I think the moral to King Kong is you can be the biggest strongest guy on your block but if you meet the wrong woman you can get your *** kicked. What man can't relate to that?


Or, in the vernacular of the day: "Some big hard-boiled egg gets a look at a pretty face and bang, he cracks up and goes sappy!"


----------



## deadmanincfan

scotpens said:


> Or, in the vernacular of the day: "Some big hard-boiled egg gets a look at a pretty face and bang, he cracks up and goes sappy!"


Vernacular? That's a DOIBY!


----------



## Tim Casey

deadmanincfan said:


> Vernacular? That's a DOIBY!


Well, drop it anyway!


----------



## John P

scotpens said:


> Or, in the vernacular of the day: "Some big hard-boiled egg gets a look at a pretty face and bang, he cracks up and goes sappy!"


She WAS a cute tomato.


----------



## TAY666

SUNGOD said:


> There's absolutely no reason on earth why a resin kit should cost more than a plastic kit (let alone $100,$200) so why some people are selling them for so much I don't know.
> There again if people are stupid enough to pay it. I think some people think more work goes into them or something.


Really?
You do understand that most resin kits have production runs that are less than 50 pieces right?
Most resin kit producers are doing good if they get 20-30 produced.
So, those 30 kits have to cover all the costs.
The sculpt itself, RTV for the molds, the time and labor to make the molds, the cost of the resin, the time and labor to pour the castings, the time and labor to clean-up the castings, then paying a painter to do the display piece used for any artwork and advertising.
Not to mention to amortize the costs of the vacuum chamber, pressure pot, and any other equipment needed to actually produce the piece.
This is why garage kits cost what they cost. And why most garage kit producers rarely make much, if any profit. 

If you lay out $4000 and only hope to sell 25 pieces, you have to charge $160 for the kit just to break even. If sales fall short, you loose money. If you get lucky and actually sell 30 kits, then, you've made a whole $800 for all your time and effort.


----------



## TAY666

Matthew Green said:


> I am a plastic only modeler too. IMM...In my mind, the resin kits ARE garage kits. I know the level of detail can be made in a plastic model kit. That saying is a copout. I mean just look at the awesome plastic kits we have seen. Look at McFarlane's plastic statues. Wow.


Yes, they could make that kit in plastic. 
But I am sure they looked at the projected sales for the subject matter and realized that in order to cover costs, the price point would be too high.

Much like Moebius and the Conan kits.
As Frank explained. They could have done Conan in styrene. But in order to cover the tooling costs the price of the kit would have been just as high as the price that the resin kit was.
So they went with resin because the cheaper tooling costs, and less risk if the kit tanked.

How many people do you actually think would buy that Kong kit in styrene?
Now, how many of them would buy that kit in styrene if the MSRP is $150.00 ?

As for the McFarlane argument. 
That is because McFarlane isn't even on the same playing field. 
They have production runs measured in hundreds of thousands. Where a model kit is lucky to generate sales of 5-10 thousand.


----------



## Buc

interesting conversation.


----------



## apls

My thanks to Anton Phibes for posting the picture of the Kong kit. This is a wonderful kit. I have no problem with resin kits outside the fact that they are so toxic. That smell is overwhelming and you need protection. The aurgument lately between styrene vs. resin and vinyl. Styrene kits have been getting better lately; look at Monarch’s Sinbad kit. All you have to do is look at the detail in Kong and the Allosaurus/ T Rex that sells the kit as opposed what it’s made from. I remember back in the late 80’s thru the 90’s, I had an impulse buying problem with buying models; there were a lot of crappy unlicensed resin kits out there. I’d go to Chiller and drop $500.00 get home, look at the kits say “WTF?”, six months later, do it again. Those days are over, I am building the kits from back then, I bought no kits this Holiday season, just the Moebius Bride resin base, first time in over 20 years. I plan to get rid of kits I will not build, will take a loss on them, but it has to be done. The days of Geometric, Kim Ito, Randy Bowen, and John Dennett are gone, I have their best work, this new Kong is up there, but the Geometric Kong I have on the Empire State building base, will suffice. When Moebius does a kick a** Karloff In-ho-tept or Dr. Phibes, I’m there! The work they are doing with 1966 Batman and The Munsters, amazing, no to mention the prices are affordable. And if Moebius has a faux pas, as the they did with the likeness of the 1931 Frankenstein, Cult of Personality will be the with a replacement head, I replaced mine with the test makeup head, much better.


----------



## SUNGOD

TAY666 said:


> Really?
> You do understand that most resin kits have production runs that are less than 50 pieces right?
> Most resin kit producers are doing good if they get 20-30 produced.
> So, those 30 kits have to cover all the costs.
> The sculpt itself, RTV for the molds, the time and labor to make the molds, the cost of the resin, the time and labor to pour the castings, the time and labor to clean-up the castings, then paying a painter to do the display piece used for any artwork and advertising.
> Not to mention to amortize the costs of the vacuum chamber, pressure pot, and any other equipment needed to actually produce the piece.
> This is why garage kits cost what they cost. And why most garage kit producers rarely make much, if any profit.
> 
> If you lay out $4000 and only hope to sell 25 pieces, you have to charge $160 for the kit just to break even. If sales fall short, you loose money. If you get lucky and actually sell 30 kits, then, you've made a whole $800 for all your time and effort.





Ok I'm not convinced by that argument as it costs a tiny fraction to tool up a resin kit compared to the high costs of styrene kits so resin kits should be much cheaper than plastic kits. There again as I said if people are prepared to pay it then good luck to the garage guys. Why some people would be prepared to pay much more for resin kits than plastic kits and moan about the price of plastic kits I don't know but that's just me.



But anyway..........PL aren't a garage kit manufacturer so if they do a resin kit of Kong it should definitely be much cheaper than any plastic kits as they have the resources that the garage kit guys don't have. This is all about making things cheaply and flogging them for extortionate prices under the pretence that they're something avante garde compared to plastic kits.


----------



## SUNGOD

apls said:


> My thanks to Anton Phibes for posting the picture of the Kong kit. This is a wonderful kit. I have no problem with resin kits outside the fact that they are so toxic. That smell is overwhelming and you need protection. The aurgument lately between styrene vs. resin and vinyl. Styrene kits have been getting better lately; look at Monarch’s Sinbad kit. All you have to do is look at the detail in Kong and the Allosaurus/ T Rex that sells the kit as opposed what it’s made from. I remember back in the late 80’s thru the 90’s, I had an impulse buying problem with buying models; there were a lot of crappy unlicensed resin kits out there. I’d go to Chiller and drop $500.00 get home, look at the kits say “WTF?”, six months later, do it again. Those days are over, I am building the kits from back then, I bought no kits this Holiday season, just the Moebius Bride resin base, first time in over 20 years. I plan to get rid of kits I will not build, will take a loss on them, but it has to be done. The days of Geometric, Kim Ito, Randy Bowen, and John Dennett are gone, I have their best work, this new Kong is up there, but the Geometric Kong I have on the Empire State building base, will suffice. When Moebius does a kick a** Karloff In-ho-tept or Dr. Phibes, I’m there! The work they are doing with 1966 Batman and The Munsters, amazing, no to mention the prices are affordable. And if Moebius has a faux pas, as the they did with the likeness of the 1931 Frankenstein, Cult of Personality will be the with a replacement head, I replaced mine with the test makeup head, much better.






Monarchs Sinbad is a great example of what can be done with plastic kits now. As good as any resin kit.


----------



## Molemento Pete

Some strong opinions in this conversation.  I personally will get a get a great looking kit no matter the material, provided the price is right. The explanation on why garage kits cost so much is pretty much right on, but one of the factors not mentioned is size. When a sculpt is 1/6 or 1/4 of course the cost to sculpt, mold, and cast it is more. Why more kits aren't made at a reasonable size is beyond me. There are some great sculpts out there, but I won't buy a costly giant kit no matter how great the sculpt. 

As for McFarlane, I don't believe their stuff is really relevant to the discussion as they are not using styrene to make their figures. I don't know the exact material, but it is more like vinyl, which is flexible and can be pulled out of a mold that has some slight undercutting. 

Looking forward to hearing more about this Kong kit.


----------



## John P

Resin kits are toxic?
Damn, I should be dead! News to me.
Hey, here's an idea - don't eat them, and wear a mask while sanding (or wet-sand). Problem solved.


----------



## djnick66

Resin kits are NOT toxic. Resin is inert. The only issue is that resin dust can aggrevate your lungs, but then so can saw dust and other particulate matter. That issue is not unique to resin.


----------



## John P

So my plans to poison my mortal enemy by selling him a resin kit will fail? Curses!!


----------



## apls

djnick66 said:


> Resin kits are NOT toxic. Resin is inert. The only issue is that resin dust can aggrevate your lungs, but then so can saw dust and other particulate matter. That issue is not unique to resin.


I didn't mean to open a debate on resin kits, you breath it in it will make you sick. I have many resin kits, I get the dust up asap, after drilling and filing. This is one persons experience with this not mine:


I wear a dust mask, and I have a fan blowing on me and the piece while I use a dremel or sand resin. I do this on our porch so the area is well ventilated and make sure there isn't a wind that will blow it back in your face.

I made the mistake of not doing either of these things on some of my first pieces years and years ago. I sanded resin in my kitchen with no fan, and about 5 hours into working on a solid resin piece I tried to breath and couldn't take in a full breath.

I stopped what I was doing for the night and tried to rest, not even thinking it might be the resin. The next morning I collapsed in Publix while grocery shopping. I spent the next 2 days in the hospital. It wasn't fun. I have permanent scarring in my lungs from it.

No matter what you're working on, wood, aluminum, resin, you don't want to breath any of that stuff in man.

He wound up in the hospital, all I was saying is you have to be careful.


----------



## nautilusnut

> This is a wonderful kit. I have no problem with resin kits outside the fact that they are so toxic. That smell is overwhelming and you need protection.


When was the last time you built a resin kit? The last few years all the kits I've built were out of odorless resin. Very little smell at all. Still use common sense and wear a dust mask and you will have no problems whatsoever.

I'm surprised at how strong some people have reacted to the resin vs styrene material, with some seemingly looking down the nose at the garage kit community. Boys, if it weren't for those guys, there STILL would not be a market for styrene figure kits. They kept the hobby alive for years and raised the bar on the sculpts and subjects. The newer kits are easier to build than most styrene kits, with less filling and seam work to do. Yes, styrene can get terrific detail these days-BUT THE DETAIL IS ALWAYS SOFTER THAN THE RESIN KITS. This is due to molding constrains of styrene kits. Hair and teeth are especially sharper in the resin versions. A silicone mold can be flexed so the part can be removed, a steel mold cannot. Lastly, the price is expensive due to high labor cost and the fact that the kit's have a small run number. Styrene kits are run in much larger numbers to recoup the cost of metal molds, injection machines, and such. A kit must have great appeal to make its money back. As one who has produced a couple of resin kits for the marketplace I can tell you that NO ONE in the resin garage kit field makes any great killing on a kit- it's a labor of love. The molds have to be carefully made or you run the risk of trapping the sculpture and having to cut the mold apart, ruining it and wasting expensive silicone. Mix the silicone wrong and it doesn't set up. (again- a waste AND a mess) Get it right and then each and every one has to be carefully poured and rotated to fill voids and avoid air bubbles. You're lucky to produce one kit every 30 or so minutes as opposed to every 30 second or so for a styrene run. And you WILL have some boo-boos, meaning that kit is un-sellable. Most all of us work our day jobs and the kits are produced on our own time. Throw in marketing licenses, packing, etc and that's why it costs more. Still, it's usually about 3 times the price of a styrene kit, so I just buy less to off-set the difference.

Pegasus kits is producing very nice figure kits using a form of vinyl similar to action figures to get great detail. My only problem with them is the vinyl is too soft for my tastes, flexing when the part gets large. (Say on the DRAGONSLAYER kit's wings) I would gladly pay a few bucks more for a harder vinyl like the old Horizon or Biliken kits.

On the plus side the resin version is a kit that not everyone has. many resin kits increase in value on the secondary market- more so than the styrene. Just don't start building if you want to sell it in the future as this really lowers the value.

One more thing- a word of advise on collecting kits. (for those who want a seriously nice collection) Don't buy just everything on the subject. Save your money and buy a really nice piece two or three times a year instead of a lower-quality item every month. In a few years you will have a collection that is the envy of people that collect that subject. Not just a room-full of items that everyone else has too.


----------



## djnick66

Well yeah you have to use care but that is not the same as saying something is toxic. Resin itself, as I said, is inert but an IRRITANT. But then so is plastic dust... or saw dust, or really any other kind of dust.

Having a fan blow while you are sanding resin is probably the worst thing you can do. It will just blow it around more. Wet sanding (which is how I sand 99.9% of anything anyway) eliminates all dust.


----------



## Dave P

And direct from Jamie on the Round 2 blog:

"This one will be resin again. Like Kane, there is so much detail that would have to be compromised to eliminate trapping problems if we did it in styrene that we opted to go that direction this time."

As far as figures are concerned, silicon molds allow for deeper and more subtle detail and surface texture that would be impossible with a steel mold. Detail get simplified. Fine hair gets smoothed out. Deep undercuts would get stuck in the tooling. Period.

If you've seen the head to head comparison of the limited resin Bride of Frankenstein heads that Moebius offered vs. the kit heads proves the point. As nice as the kits parts are, the difference in detail is obvious.

Not that I care what medium people prefer to build. It's your hobby. Build what you like. It's all good. No criticism from me. I just don't like to see misinformation and outright ignorance of the subject guiding people's opinions. Nautilusnut and TAY666 are right on the money about resin kit production and cost. It's simple math. Cost to produce vs. HOW MANY UNITS are manufactured. As mentioned:

$4000 out of pocket expense (not unusual) for sculpt/castings/shipping boxes, etc to manufacture *25* kits = a unit cost of *$160 per kit* AT ABSOLUTELY NO PROFIT

$50,000 out pocket expense to produce *10,000* styrene kits yields a unit cost of *$50 per kit*.

Or to compare apples to apples, 25 styrene kits would come to $2,000 each.

And, no I'm not just making that up. If anything it's conservative. IIRC when Scott Alexander was working on his styrene Atomic City Mercury Capsule kit before it went to MRC, he quoted a figure on his board of $75,000 in tooling costs alone, and that was nearly 10 years ago.

We have no idea at this point what Kong will cost vs. how many they are going to produce, so it's a moot point right now. And kit run figures are generally not public knowledge. What anyone thinks in their own mind what it SHOULD cost is irrelevant when you have no facts. But I guarantee Kong will cost a whole lot more than $4,000 to produce.

It also makes no sense to call into question Round 2s motives just because they aren't releasing Kong (and Kane) in your preferred material. And no resin kit builder I have ever known has complained about the comparative cost of a styrene kit!

As Harlan Ellison once said: "People and not entitled to their opinion. They are entitled to their informed opinion."

And that's all MY _informed_ opinion, even though I probably should have known better.


----------



## John P

re the difference in detail between resin and plastic - anybody else got the new PL Superman? This is the softest, poorest-detailed figure kit ever. Every detail is soft and rounded. His eyeballs blend into the face with no defined edges. The boot tops disappear into the legs at the seams and need resculpting. The belt and loops have no distiguishable edges. The whole thing is like it's out of focus. Looks like an unfinished rush job. A resin kit (properly sculpted) would have been 1000 times better. Very disappointing after Wolverine.


----------



## BWolfe

It is simple economics to me, I have limited income and I can either buy one resin model at $100+ that will keep me busy building and painting for about 2 weeks or I can buy 3 or 4 styrene kits for the same money that may keep me busy for up to 2 months. I would love to Have the Kane and Kong kits but the higher price of resin and the fact that I do not like working with the stuff means that I will not buy them. I wish PL would follow what Pegasus did with Tarzan and The Great White Shark and release the kits in vinyl, at least then the price would be in range, and I would buy them.


----------



## Dave P

^^I absolutely understand that. I'd like to see a resurgence in vinyl myself.


----------



## BatToys

I have some of visionmodels resin kits and they have incredible detail.


----------



## Matthew Green

TAY666 said:


> Yes, they could make that kit in plastic.
> But I am sure they looked at the projected sales for the subject matter and realized that in order to cover costs, the price point would be too high.
> 
> Much like Moebius and the Conan kits.
> As Frank explained. They could have done Conan in styrene. But in order to cover the tooling costs the price of the kit would have been just as high as the price that the resin kit was.
> So they went with resin because the cheaper tooling costs, and less risk if the kit tanked.
> 
> How many people do you actually think would buy that Kong kit in styrene?
> Now, how many of them would buy that kit in styrene if the MSRP is $150.00 ?
> 
> As for the McFarlane argument.
> That is because McFarlane isn't even on the same playing field.
> They have production runs measured in hundreds of thousands. Where a model kit is lucky to generate sales of 5-10 thousand.


Explain to me the detailed Monarch Nosferatu or the Moebius Elvira kit. You telling me that Elvira has more fans than King Kong? One had a huge big budgeted movie....The other flauts her breasts around. ONE has major kid appeal, the other appeals to old men.

The resin argument is a joke. Heck Tay I would LOVE to see the original Aurora Prehistoric Scenes done again. Kid appeal!

They make PLASTIC action figures of EVERYTHING! And if plastic kits are never cost effective to make...Um WHY are they still making them? Why not convert ALL to resin? Yup....more arguments that hold no water.


----------



## djnick66

I noticed my LHS had the AMT Dirty Donny's Too Much for a reasonable $38. And they don't even stock resin kits! Right next to it on the shelf was the new plastic Superman for $48... So the price is certainly right. And so is availability.


----------



## fernieo

djnick66 said:


> I noticed my LHS had the AMT Dirty Donny's Too Much for a reasonable $38. And they don't even stock resin kits! Right next to it on the shelf was the new plastic Superman for $48... So the price is certainly right. And so is availability.


Wow, Some of you guys really hate resin.
I've seen the Dirty Donny kit for as low as $19.95.
I think once Kong is released, you'll be able to get a good deal on the kit.
(I always do and rarely pay retail for any kit.)
Ex.Got the Moebius Vampirella a couple of weeks ago for a measly $7.00.


----------



## TAY666

djnick66 said:


> Resin kits are NOT toxic. Resin is inert. The only issue is that resin dust can aggrevate your lungs, but then so can saw dust and other particulate matter. That issue is not unique to resin.


Actually, I think it depends on the type of resin being worked on.
There are several different types that are used.
And though, probably not technically toxic, it can cause severe allergic reactions.
And I know people who have had to drop out of the hobby due to reactions to the resin itself.
Not breathing it, but from skin contact.
Much like poison ivy, they initially had no problems. But as they had more exposure over time, the symptoms got progressively worse each time they came into contact with it.
Rashes, swelling, dizziness.
Until it got to the point where it became a serious issue, and they had to avoid contact with it.


----------



## Spockr

apls said:


> ... The days of Geometric, Kim Ito, Randy Bowen, and John Dennett are gone, I have their best work, ...



John Dennett is still very active and doing some really fine works:
http://www.moondevilstudio.com


----------



## mcdougall

Photos are back up 
http://www.collectormodel.com/round...eks-of-christmas-part-3/#sthash.b7lw0Sg9.dpbs

Can't wait for this one and the Alien Queen... http://www.collectormodel.com/round...its-4-weeks-of-christmas-part-4/#comment-3647
Denis


----------



## apls

Spockr said:


> John Dennett is still very active and doing some really fine works:
> http://www.moondevilstudio.com


Thanks for the update. I spoke to John a few ago at Chiller Theatre. To put to rest my thoughts on resin kits, maybe I was wrong when I said it was toxic, maybe. I had been building resin kits since I bought the first one of John Dennett, the great Werewolf of London back in the 80's. Resin for me depends on the casting, this was a clean casted kit, no pinhole, air bubbles, fitted well with no gaps. I have no problem with resin other than that smell, I wear a mask when I drill and sand, the detail is better than most styrene kits I have, I personally prefer vinyl. Someone on this site asked, what was the last resin kit I built? Resin from the Grave, Henry Frankenstein last summer, This kit was never released, I bought a prototype twenty years ago. Even with the mask, for me the dust was a problem. I like cold cast resin kits, like Dark Horse used to release, in that vain, resin would be the way to go. The photos of Kong looks to be a little out of scale with the T Rex/ Allosaurus. But it is the long face Kong, and that makes it worth owning no matter what it was made from.


----------



## starduster

Resin works for me I've been building more resin kits lately anyway, but being on a fixed income means saving as much as I can for this baby but it's doable, I have plenty of 2 part resin from Hobby town and Aves Epoxy Sculpt so I'm ready LOL. Karl


----------



## Tim Casey

I say we all line up in a field somewhere, resin vs. styrene.

At the drop of a glove, we start shooting each other with airbrushes filled with (non-toxic) acrylics.

And then, when the airbrushes are all empty, we... we...

Okay, I haven't thought this one through yet. :wave:


----------



## mcdougall

Tim.... I like the way you think :thumbsup:
Except you forgot to Prime the enemy....
Denis


----------



## Spockr

mcdougall said:


> Tim.... I like the way you think :thumbsup:
> Except you forgot to Prime the enemy....
> Denis


Prime you say - Single Malt is the best primer I know :wave:


----------



## TAY666

Tim Casey said:


> I say we all line up in a field somewhere, resin vs. styrene.


But what about those of us who like both?


----------



## Tim Casey

TAY666 said:


> But what about those of us who like both?


Then it turns into the classic "circular firing squad". I'm afraid we'll all end up covered in paint, with no resolution in sight.


----------



## mcdougall

I've built way more resin in the past 5 years than styrene... 
and I can't see that changing anytime soon. The detail in Resin is what I like, the new Superman kit is way to soft in detail for my liking and that's the part I don't understand...My Original Aurora kits had very crisp detail , but just compare the New Superman face to an old Phantom of the Opera face(or any of the old Monster faces for that matter) and it's night and day....any reason for this? Were the molds used back in the 1960's better than today?
Denis


----------



## starduster

mcdougall said:


> I've built way more resin in the past 5 years than styrene...
> and I can't see that changing anytime soon. The detail in Resin is what I like, the new Superman kit is way to soft in detail for my liking and that's the part I don't understand...My Original Aurora kits had very crisp detail , but just compare the New Superman face to an old Phantom of the Opera face(or any of the old Monster faces for that matter) and it's night and day....any reason for this? Were the molds used back in the 1960's better than today?
> Denis


 If you bring up that fact then the most common response would be something like " Oh we needed to keep the cost down " to me would be not a good enough response for something like this.  Karl


----------



## mcdougall

starduster said:


> If you bring up that fact then the most common response would be something like " Oh we needed to keep the cost down " to me would be not a good enough response for something like this.  Karl


Well Karl, You're right... It really does keep the cost down, for me at least... when I see soft detail like that ...Yeah, I pass and save all kinds of money 
Cheers
Denis


----------



## starduster

LOL, yea I hear ya. Karl


----------



## SUNGOD

Dave P said:


> And direct from Jamie on the Round 2 blog:
> 
> "This one will be resin again. Like Kane, there is so much detail that would have to be compromised to eliminate trapping problems if we did it in styrene that we opted to go that direction this time."
> 
> As far as figures are concerned, silicon molds allow for deeper and more subtle detail and surface texture that would be impossible with a steel mold. Detail get simplified. Fine hair gets smoothed out. Deep undercuts would get stuck in the tooling. Period.
> 
> If you've seen the head to head comparison of the limited resin Bride of Frankenstein heads that Moebius offered vs. the kit heads proves the point. As nice as the kits parts are, the difference in detail is obvious.
> 
> Not that I care what medium people prefer to build. It's your hobby. Build what you like. It's all good. No criticism from me. I just don't like to see misinformation and outright ignorance of the subject guiding people's opinions. Nautilusnut and TAY666 are right on the money about resin kit production and cost. It's simple math. Cost to produce vs. HOW MANY UNITS are manufactured. As mentioned:
> 
> $4000 out of pocket expense (not unusual) for sculpt/castings/shipping boxes, etc to manufacture *25* kits = a unit cost of *$160 per kit* AT ABSOLUTELY NO PROFIT
> 
> $50,000 out pocket expense to produce *10,000* styrene kits yields a unit cost of *$50 per kit*.
> 
> Or to compare apples to apples, 25 styrene kits would come to $2,000 each.
> 
> And, no I'm not just making that up. If anything it's conservative. IIRC when Scott Alexander was working on his styrene Atomic City Mercury Capsule kit before it went to MRC, he quoted a figure on his board of $75,000 in tooling costs alone, and that was nearly 10 years ago.
> 
> We have no idea at this point what Kong will cost vs. how many they are going to produce, so it's a moot point right now. And kit run figures are generally not public knowledge. What anyone thinks in their own mind what it SHOULD cost is irrelevant when you have no facts. But I guarantee Kong will cost a whole lot more than $4,000 to produce.
> 
> It also makes no sense to call into question Round 2s motives just because they aren't releasing Kong (and Kane) in your preferred material. And no resin kit builder I have ever known has complained about the comparative cost of a styrene kit!
> 
> As Harlan Ellison once said: "People and not entitled to their opinion. They are entitled to their informed opinion."
> 
> And that's all MY _informed_ opinion, even though I probably should have known better.















Jamie can say it's ignorance, misinformation and an ill informed opinion but think about this...........




I'm making large elaborate looking cakes with chocolate sculptures on them

I'm making 1 which is using *very expensive ingredients *and I have to pay a cake sculptor to make the sculpture (equivalent of tooling up an expensive plastic kit)

I'm making another 1 which is using *much, much less expensive ingredients *but the sculptor/sculpture is still the same (equivalent of a resin kit)

Factor in the packaging distribution etc for the both cakes.

Why on Earth would I charge much more for the cake that costs much less to make? 


That seems like simple maths to me.


Ok you say but we're not talking cakes.......we're talking plastic kits verses resin kits. 

The principle's still the same. No matter how people dress it up and try and blind people with science resin kits are insanely much cheaper to make than plastic kits even factoring in paying sculptors etc so they should darn well be much cheaper to buy in theory. It all boils down to how much people will pay for them (and yes unlike Jamie I have seen some resin guys who want to pay peanuts for a plastic kit and will constantly moan about the price, yet will quite happily fork out hundreds for a resin kit).

Up to them if they want to pay it of course but let's not pretend resin kits need to be so expensive compared to plastic kits as they sure as hell don't. Ah you say (like Jamie says).........but plastic kits should be a hell of a lot more expensive than they are! Ok well I have more sympathy with that because styrene kits are so much more expensive to make but would they really be $2000 like Jamie says compared to the equivalent for resin kits? I find that hard to believe and also a resin Kong would have to sell in tiny numbers not to make it's money back on a kit that only cost a few thousand to make in the first place. 



A guy I used to know made some resin dinosaurs a few years back and even though he paid the sculptor a £1000 and had the usual few other expenses like packaging etc he still made a healthy profit on them selling them for £25 each. He never expected to make much money either. 


As for resin offering better detail well for a start I've seen the original Willis O Brien Kong miniature and it ain't that detailed. In fact it's fairly rough and same with many (including Harryhausen) miniatures. I've seen the Mighty Joe Young miniature in the Museum of the Moving Image in London and that again wasn't very detailed.

The Moebius Bride plastic head might not have quite the same level of detail that the resin one has but the original plastic head looks like it has the better likeness to me and any slight improvements in detail for me are irrelevant as the resin head isn't made of such a quality substance.


Again Monarchs Sinbad and Ghost might not be gorillas but they prove what can be done with plastic kits today I suspect Round 2's decision is just because they don't want to fork out any money for a new Kong tooling in plastic that's all. 

Would a new Kong plastic kit sell............I don't know but sometimes model companies have to take risks or they'd get nowhere. They'd do everything in resin without even contemplating new plastic kits. And I don't think Round 2 are short of a bob or two either so unlike smaller companies they can afford to take a few risks.


----------



## SUNGOD

Matthew Green said:


> Explain to me the detailed Monarch Nosferatu or the Moebius Elvira kit. You telling me that Elvira has more fans than King Kong? One had a huge big budgeted movie....The other flauts her breasts around. ONE has major kid appeal, the other appeals to old men.
> 
> The resin argument is a joke. Heck Tay I would LOVE to see the original Aurora Prehistoric Scenes done again. Kid appeal!
> 
> They make PLASTIC action figures of EVERYTHING! And if plastic kits are never cost effective to make...Um WHY are they still making them? Why not convert ALL to resin? Yup....more arguments that hold no water.











Good points about Elvira. The main people who buy kits at the moment are us older men and I find it hard to believe that an Elvira kit (as nice as the Moebius kit is) would sell more than a new Kong kit. Whether these sites are a good indicator I don't know but I've seen many more people saying they'd like to see a new Kong kit than an Elvira kit. In fact before the Moebius kit came out I don't think I saw one person asking for an Elvira.


----------



## SUNGOD

mcdougall said:


> I've built way more resin in the past 5 years than styrene...
> and I can't see that changing anytime soon. The detail in Resin is what I like, the new Superman kit is way to soft in detail for my liking and that's the part I don't understand...My Original Aurora kits had very crisp detail , but just compare the New Superman face to an old Phantom of the Opera face(or any of the old Monster faces for that matter) and it's night and day....any reason for this? Were the molds used back in the 1960's better than today?
> Denis










I haven't seen the new Superman kit in detail so can't comment on that but if the detail isn't as good as the 1960s kits then that just shouldn't be the case.

Wolverine looks great so I was hoping they'd turned a new leaf in plastic figure production.


----------



## mcdougall

SUNGOD said:


> I haven't seen the new Superman kit in detail so can't comment on that but if the detail isn't as good as the 1960s kits then that just shouldn't be the case.
> 
> Wolverine looks great so I was hoping they'd turned a new leaf in plastic figure production.


Check this out ...
http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=409217




Denis


----------



## SUNGOD

It's hard to see on those photos but does he have eyelids and eyes or is there just a bump for the eyes?


----------



## John P

There are eyelids, but the detail is so soft and rounded that it's hard to find a line where they end. In fact, I really couldn't see them until I primed the dern thing in flat gray and could see some shadow. Very disappointing after the excellent Wolverine.


----------



## SUNGOD

It sounds as if this kit isn't up to the standards of Wolverine then. I also don't like that they've given decals for the S badge on his chest instead of engraved detailing like Moebius did with their superhero kits.

That way you can just paint the badge and not worry about trying to get the decal to look part of the outfit.


----------



## Scott J

Just curious ....How many "styrene" guys bought the Moebius replacement heads and base? Figure another what? $75 to the cost of the kit putting it near the cost of a resin kit? I know I did! But I'm a "resin" guy too. I'm glad the Kong will be resin. They haven't even announced a price yet and everyone is bitching? Resin is way easier to build and seam. I applaud the decision to release this in resin!!!

SJ


----------



## Aurora-brat

mcdougall said:


> I've built way more resin in the past 5 years than styrene...
> and I can't see that changing anytime soon. The detail in Resin is what I like, the new Superman kit is way to soft in detail for my liking and that's the part I don't understand...My Original Aurora kits had very crisp detail , but just compare the New Superman face to an old Phantom of the Opera face(or any of the old Monster faces for that matter) and it's night and day....any reason for this? Were the molds used back in the 1960's better than today?
> Denis


Dennis, I think I can shed some light on your query. The process Aurora used to create their injection molds is no longer in use. They would have a master model (pattern) carved in acetate plastic and have the mold maker pour rubber molds from the parts, then cast ceramic masters over which molten beryllium copper was poured to create the cavities. Almost no detail was lost from the originals with this process (in some instances the paint work on the acetate pattern was reproduced!).

I am guessing the Superman kit was digitally sculpted, then the steel tooling (injection molds) were cut directly from these digital files. The softness of detail is most likely the result of a) the files having soft detail or b) the tool maker not bothering to use fine enough cutters to reproduce the detail in the files.

As evidenced by the Wolverine kit, the detail can be quite fine, but it depends on who did the digital sculpt and who cut the molds.

Tory


----------



## djnick66

Back in the day too molds were often hand finished. Nowdays I doubt very little work on anything is done by hand.

One advantage with modern molding is that it is much easier to reproduce long thin engraved lines, like panels on an airplane. This requires a long, thin, raised line to be present in the mold itself, which was much harder to do decades ago. Now with computer controlled milling etc its easy peasy.


----------



## eradicator178

I have been waiting on this kit for years. Ever since it was first announced at WF a few years ago. I knew they would do a good job on it after seeing what they did with the big godzilla!!


----------



## oliver

Hard to believe this is the 50th anniversary of the aurora Kong and Godzilla kits.


----------



## oliver

It's hard to believe this is the 50th anniversary of the Aurora Kong and Godzilla kits.


----------



## apls

What the hell happend to Thor?


----------



## John P

One doth not rush the God of Thunder.


----------

