# New Reedy brushless



## The Jet

Anybody run the new Reedy stuff???
I run 4 cell modified oval and 19 turn, I'm really thinking about getting this setup. It sounds like the power of a 9 turn but MUCH more runtime, which translates into the same lap times from start to finish, does that sound right???

Thanks, Bret


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## FishRC

So far the production parts are not out yet. I got a look at it at the Chicago show but they did not have a working setup at the show. Talking with them they were saying Febuary for them to com out, but now they annouce it to be out early December. Will have to wait and see if they make the delivery date. Then see about some one actualy running it. I'm looking at it for summer '05 if all goes well with it. Would be the first time in 18 years I've not run a Novak speed control.


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## The Jet

Hmmm, guess I'll just have to wait. It's just an experiment for me, nobody around here runs brushless at all, so I guess I'll be the guina pig  .

Later, Bret


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## rcgen

The Jet said:


> Hmmm, guess I'll just have to wait. It's just an experiment for me, nobody around here runs brushless at all, so I guess I'll be the guina pig  .
> 
> Later, Bret


I'm in the same boat no one here runs a brushless but I can't wait for the reedy bl to come out. The more bl systems out there the more people will hopefully get into it.


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## NHRCRACER

I've run the new Reedy brushless motor and LRP ESC and it's an awesome combo. It has none of the bad traits that some brushless systems have. It's super smooth and delivers crazy run time.


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## The Jet

NHRCRACER said:


> I've run the new Reedy brushless motor and LRP ESC and it's an awesome combo. It has none of the bad traits that some brushless systems have. It's super smooth and delivers crazy run time.


Where'd you buy your stuff, Madness???
Thanks, Bret


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## NHRCRACER

No, I didn't buy the system at Madness, but I'm Chris will have some good deals when he gets them in if he hasn't already. I just tested it and was very impressed.


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## darkultra

NHRCRACER said:


> I've run the new Reedy brushless motor and LRP ESC and it's an awesome combo. It has none of the bad traits that some brushless systems have. It's super smooth and delivers crazy run time.


do you think they would make it waterproofed and with LiPo support? and how about a HV ESC for monster trucks


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## DynoMoHum

LRP is saying 'March' now for their release of their controler. It's not clear if their motor will be released at the same time or not. They are saying 4-7 cells (1.2v cells)... No mention of LiPo... and no mention of waterproofing... So I would suspect that the anser is ther is no support for LiPo or waterproofing... 

Castle Creations is talking about a HV system in their lineup, but at this point it's just talk and no release date. It would seem they would likely support LiPo, but then maybe in big truck type application there isn't that much demand for LiPo, since it's my understanding that LiPo currently isn't ready for large amp draw except in the most expensive batteries... Castle does have lipo support in their Mamba-25 18th scale controler however, so it could be in this new HV product too.


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## DynoMoHum

Has anyone seen one of the LRP brushless controlers yet? Tower says 'late may' still, however tower does usually send product out to hobby shops before they start selling it themselves online... (at least I've been lead to beleive this is their practice)

The following is a quote from 'burito' over at rctech, who is apparently someone directly involved with this brushless project over at LRP...

"First of all, we are VERY sorry about the delays. But these were mostly out of our control due to availability of certain components and we were not willing to sell a product which isn't done according to our likes.

First batch of SPHERE speed-controls has been shipped last week, expect them to be available while I write this. Of course it will take a few weeks to fulfill all backorders but the speed-control is in full production now and shipments leave LRP every week.
The real production quantities for the motor will be sent out by end of this month, very early next month.

This is not another "guess" about the release... Again, sorry for the inconvienence but I can promise it was worth the waiting."


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## Craps

The LRP has no heat sinks on the ESC and it will not run sensorless brushless motors that narrows it down to 3 BL motors it can run the Reedy Neo, the Novak 4300 and 5800 motors. Of course it can run any brushed motor, but who cares about that.


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## ChrisHarris

Obviously LRP thinks SOMEBODY cares.


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## DynoMoHum

It does run at 4.8 volts... The Reedy Neo One, and the two Novak motors are built within the ROAR/IFMAR specs as well. Are there any other sensored brushless motors that meet those specs? I suspect there will be many ROAR legal sensored brushless motors over time. This is a new thing for ROAR, and at this time many of us still try to run stuff that is ROAR legal... Not to mention those of us who race in competition where 4.8 volts is the normal operating voltage, so this LRP product is important to many of us, if for no other reason then curriousity in terms of how it will perform in comparison to the Novak SS.

Heat sinks... well I didn't design it, so I don't know whether or not they are really nessasary. Did they run heat sinks on the controler when they won that recent 12th scale ROAR national title with it?

Does anyone know for sure if there are any sensorless motors that meet the ROAR specs?


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## DynoMoHum

Further resonses from 'burito' over on rctech, indicate there is a heat sink for the LRP controler, it apprently is optional, but is more or less a nessecity in many application such as in a Touring Car.


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## Craps

Amazing how ROAR wrote the rules to satisfy 2 big sponsors with the mention of sensored brushless motors. Now a ruling needs to be made to the sensorless motors sensor harness fell off during the race and besides who knows how to tech for this????


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## DynoMoHum

I'm not clear on what you mean in that last message...

Motors don't have to be sensored... If they do have sensors, the there is a spec for the connector and pin layout. If there are no sensors, then no need for this connector.


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## Craps

I don't race at ROAR tracks like alot racers don't in my area, so tracks don't join to save money for the racers. Now the rules were written for sensored motors, which leaves out a large number of motors like the Hackers, Plettenbergs, Lehner, Feigao, etc. except the 3 sensored motors (Reedy Neo, Novak 5800 and 4300) made by big sponsors of ROAR and IFMAR.


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## philb1

2005 ROAR Rules
8.7.5.1 Sensored or sensorless motors are allowed

I do not agree with running brushless with modified brush motors in the same class.


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## hankster

As phil said, both can be legal as long as they conform to the other specs (sizes and winds). All they would need to do is submit them to ROAR for approval. The wiring and plug specs for the sensored motors were done to make sure you can use any legal sensored motor with any sensored ESC. Don't blame ROAR if your favorite sensorless motor isn't legal, it's the manufacturers responsibily to submit the motors they have to ROAR for approval.


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## DynoMoHum

Actualy for brushless motors, ROAR has removed the regulation that required submition for aproval... all you have to do now is conform to the physical dimensions and/or specs, and have it available for distribution within the USA, etc... 

http://www.roarracing.com/rules/index.htm

Make sure you scroll down a bit to see the new rules related to motors...

Section 8.7.5.1 clearly says sesnored or sensorless are allowed.

If any of the sensorless motors by hacker etc... are illegal it's not because they don't have sensors...


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## davz

Is the reedy system available yet????


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## BDKesling

Tower has the new Reedy system in their speedmart, esc is 174.99 and the motor is 84.99
-Brian


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## Kraig

I just checked and the LRP/Reedy system is not yet available. Should be available late May sometime.


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## DynoMoHum

LRP (europe) claim's they've actualy started shiping product... but I've yet to hear of anyone saying they've seen them in the US yet.


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## FishRC

I looked at the Tower Hobbies web today and there listing it at LATE June. Any one hearing different? Getting a little frustrated with this bit of announcing product... and not even comming close to the date with actual shipments. Looked at the system at the Chicago show last fall. Then they were hoping for a mid 1st Quarter shipping. Now we see it slipping possibly past 2nd quarter before any ship.

Makes me wonder if its even worth looking at for this outdoor season. If I order now, might get it mid to late July, race Aug. and Sept., tracks close after that. Then sits on the shelf till May when the tracks reopen.


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## mbeach2k

last i heard associatted had just received there first shipment to test and final product will not be available for over a month yet!


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## FishRC

Well with Novak announcing the GTB brushed/brushless programable with no motor limit and the Velociti 6.5 & 5.5 (the 4300 is a 10.5 and the 5800 is a 8.5) might be interesting to see if the LRP/Reedy system will get off the ground. Might be a race to see who actualy can get them out to the market without having stuff fail at the tracks.


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## Craps

Novak and LRP act like they just came out with something brand new on the market that can run both brushless and brushed motors, when in reality the Schulze U-Force 75 ESC has been out almost a year now that is far more adjustable (PC tunable) and can run the same and even more motors than either the Novak or LRP can. Now that Novak GTB ESC is out and whenever the LRP hits the market, the Schulze U-Force 75 ESC will still be a better choice of ESC. 

Of course the Schulze cost more, but you get what you pay for.


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## FishRC

The Schulze has two big issues. 

1. 6 cell min. So the 4 cell classes are out.
2. Sales and support in the US. Looks like the only North American supplier is in Canada.


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## DynoMoHum

Looks like LRP has done me a favor... by not getting the Sphere out fast, they've keept me from buying it long enough for Novak to offer something that looks like it's probably significantly better... Thanks for the Info on the new Novak GTB stuff FishRC...

The Schluze is also a bit bigger then I'd like my controler to be... But really it's the lack of 4 cell operation that is the killer for me and the Schluze.

I've never been a huge fan of Novak, but it really is nice to have the support of a American based company when buying stuff like this... so they have a slight advantage in my book just because they are here in the USA. Now if they'd just make a controler with more programablity... (like the ablity to adjust timing). But hey, I'm pretty happy with the SS I have... but I'd also be willing to buy a GTB when they are available... perticularly since it's smaller then the SS and has internal resistance that's less then 1/4 of the SS...

Looks like the LRP has just gotten alot less attractive to me... So much so that I wouldn't even consider buying the LRP right now, even if I could find one.


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## DynoMoHum

Looks to me like the Schluze is roughly the same internal resisntance as the Novak SS... Schluze says 2*.9mOhms... I think that's .0018 Ohms... The new Novak claims .00040 ohms...

The size of the Schuluze is 52x32x23mm, and it's weight is listed as 46-59g (not sure why they give a range). The Novak GTB is said 29.5x37.8(not sure the other dimension) and the weight is suposed to be 38.5g.

So, it looks to me like the new Novak GTB will be alot better brushless controler for many of us then will the Schluze U-Force 75... smaller, lighter, lower resistance, and it costs less. Seems like with the Schulze your just paying more.


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## Craps

DynoMoHum said:


> Looks to me like the Schluze is roughly the same internal resisntance as the Novak SS... Schluze says 2*.9mOhms... I think that's .0018 Ohms... The new Novak claims .00040 ohms...
> 
> The size of the Schuluze is 52x32x23mm, and it's weight is listed as 46-59g (not sure why they give a range). The Novak GTB is said 29.5x37.8(not sure the other dimension) and the weight is suposed to be 38.5g.
> 
> So, it looks to me like the new Novak GTB will be alot better brushless controler for many of us then will the Schluze U-Force 75... smaller, lighter, lower resistance, and it costs less. Seems like with the Schulze your just paying more.


Until you find out why the Novak is cheaper when it starts thermalling mysteriously at different temperatures like the 5800SS system has with at least 3 racers in my area that have since sold them and switched to the Schulze U-Force 75 ESC and Plettenberg Extreme motor.

You can read all those specs all you want to, I go by what they do on the race track and the Schulze/Plettenberg system wins by a mile!

You get what you pay for!!!


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## DynoMoHum

I guess only time will tell.


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## Craps

1 of the stock truck class hot dogs is moving up to Pro Truck and is supposed be getting the new LRP/Reedy BL system and I will see if the hype lives up to it. No heat sink will hurt where we race for 20 minutes.

By like it was mentioned, time will tell!


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## DynoMoHum

The LRP isn't likely to be anything special. Only slightly better then the Novak SS based on known information with regard to internal resistance max power handling, etc... but the Novak GTB's specs are ALOT better then the stuff that's out now... Incedently the U-Force 75's specs aren't much differnt then the LRP's... so I wouldn't expect to see tha much differance between them.


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## Tempest2000

dyno...

For what its worth the neo/sphere is MUCH faster than the original 5800 novak.

I saw it in person in 12th scale i.e. Jon Orr and in his touring car as well. (Nats)

The 12th was VERY fast, but lacked a little infield punch. He had HP over the brushed guys on the straight and had plenty of run time.

In touring, I would say that the motor was underpowered compared to the brushed 8's and 9's, but not by much.

The new novak motors were prototyped at the nats as well and seemed to be very comparible to the brushed 8's and 9's Good rip in the infield and on the straight.

I'd say the Sphere/Neo will be plenty fast for everything except the top level touring guys as is. Definately enough for offroad, 12th, etc.

$.02

Michael


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## DynoMoHum

So, do you know for sure that motor and controler actualy have the same specs as what the production products will have? I mean, that was long before there was any production and/or inventory of the product for sale to the general public. Heck we still don't have any of these on the streets from what I can tell.

I don't doubt that the Sphere and Neo One will be faster then the Novak SS and 5800 are... But It sure seems that the next generation Novak system will be even better then what ever LRP had planned for their product.


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## DynoMoHum

Oh, I should also add... that it appears that maybe Novak is giving their specs slightly differnt then others do. That is, it's not clear if Novak's numbers should be more like what Schluze does... that is Novak when Novak says .0019/phase (three phase), what they may mean is .0019 *2 like Schluze says, which would be .0036 per phase as I think of it, since it more or less take two phases to be in operation at one time, etc... this would make the GTB's specs more like what I would call .0008 per phase... still this would be nearly a 5 fold increase from Novaks first generation SS product, and probably at least half as much resistance as the LRP or Schluze.


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## Tempest2000

Dyno....
I asked John that question and he said to his knowledge yes... but he only knew what he was told... the engineers could have had something different and he wouldn't have known the difference... so who knows.

As for which is better... from the nats I'd say the novak had more rip in touring for what its worth...


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## chrisbcrunch

whats LPR stand for ? and is lehner best motor? and if so which one and why and what ESC best to go with it?


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## patcollins

I think you mean LRP, its the name of a company. 

As far as Lehner goes it very well may be the best, I don't know cause they are more or less non existant in RC Car circles. 

Right now the Novak Super Sport is the only game in town. 

There are a few others out there but they are few and far between, no US support or sales.


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## kevinm

Apparently it stands for Late at Releasing Products. :devil: 


(Just kidding. Sort of...)


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## DynoMoHum

Anyone who really wants a Sphere, and doesn't figure they want to wait for the Novak GTB to show up... The Spehere is apparently on sale now... Hobby People says they have it in stock, I've seen one report that someone has seen one in a local hobby shop, etc...

Tower says 'Early August' still for both the Novak GTB and the LRP Sphere...


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## kevinm

It appears that Hobby People may have been a bit optimistic about the "in stock" status. It now says "on order" (either they didn't really have any or had a few that sold quickly), and Tower lists it as "late August". Tower still lists the Novak GTB as early August. This is the first time I can recall a race between major manufacturers that happens in the factory instead of on the track. Maybe there are 2 cargo ships racing each other here from China????


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## DynoMoHum

Two cargo ships... racing from China. Now that's a good one...

I think the first batch or two very likely ships by airplane... Also, I think it's fairly common that Tower actualy tries to distribute product to hobby shops first, before they start selling direct... Also, I think it's fairly common that the first shipments can be very small, and indeed may sell out fast... 

Meanwhile I haven't seen one yet... I did read one report on rctech.net that someone claimed they had seen them in a hobby shop... WHatever the case... they don't seem to be widely available just yet... and maybe not at all.

I'm personaly not really even considering buying the LRP anyway... the Novak appears to be worth the wait....


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## MKingsley

Makes you wonder what LRP has going on. They know the Novak is going to be better - maybe they are already making changes before their speedo hits the shelves. Tower says today that the GTB is now mid august - I'm sure it will say late august or early september in a few days. But Tower has their buy $150 get $25 off - that makes the GTB a good deal if it ever comes out. Don't need it til carpet season anyway.


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## DynoMoHum

I don't know Mike... Surely LRP must be concerned that Novak has seemingly trumped their card before it was even really released... on the ohter hand, I think they had problems of some sort with the release of the Sphere, even before Novak announced the GTB... This sort of thing is one reason why I wouldn't want to be in this kind of business...


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## Craps

Read a thread on RCZone about a racer bought the LRP/Reedy system from his LHS. He had pictures of it in the truck and the system came with heatsinks on the ESC that all the magazine test pictures have shown it without heat sinks on the ESC.

He was pleased with the system.


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## walterhenderson

Got mine yesterday. Looks good, we will see how it runs at the summer classic. Nick said he will have one on thursday.


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## Donn

I got mine and did my first run at the Velodrome race we had here in So. Cal, everything worked great, I just kept putting more gear on it to see if it would stop pulling. I finally ended with a 88/37 and it would still light up the tires going down the back straight if I pulled the throttle to fast...I found that I just had to roll into it slowly with the cap tires. I will try it at our next short track oval race with foam tires to see if there is difference.


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## kevinm

Donn - Did you buy it "off the shelf" or are you sponsored by Reedy or LRP? And how does it compare to the brushed motors you normally run?


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## Roy Dallier

kevinm said:


> Donn - Did you buy it "off the shelf" or are you sponsored by Reedy or LRP? And how does it compare to the brushed motors you normally run?



Hey Kevin bought mine at RnL right off the shelf last Sunday I run it for first time at raw roots in west olive MI in the T4 and can not believe how fast it was. I was passing guys on the straight away doing a catwalk down about half way just ask Marty w or gene K 
I did have to gear down about 3 teeth and mine did come with a heat sink for the speed control.


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## kevinm

Nick at the Hobby Hub managed to get one, too. Apparently there were only 100 of them available in the 1st shipment, which all went to one of the smaller distributors. Maybe they ship on the basis of who ordered first, who knows? I haven't had a chance to try it in the car yet (been in Indy for work since friday), but it'll be in there for the Summer Classic this weekend.


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## Craps

A very good local racer just got his and is very happy with it, but he did have to replace the motor right off the bat due to the rotor shaft coming out of it after the first run with it. Luckly the LHS had an extra motor to swap out with him.


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## kevinm

Ran mine for the first time Sunday, and I've got good news and bad news (along with excuses why I didn't win) .....

1st heat:
Bad news - The ESC does have a thermal shutdown limit (somewhere north of 200°)
Good news - a $10 fan fixes it

2nd heat:
Good news - It's speed in a TC3 is VERY impressive on 6 cells
Bad News - It's not nearly as impressive in a TC3 on 5 cells  

3rd heat:
Good news - Battery life doesn't seem to be an issue
Bad news - You'll need both eyes open to properly drive it (got some dirt or something in my eye at the start)

Main:
Good news - The off-the-shelf unit I bought is just as fast as the one the Associated sponsored driver has.
Bad news - The sponsored driver will probably make fewer mistakes! (Nice run, Walt :thumbsup: )

Overall opinion of it's speed and power:
Good/Bad news (you decide)-
Brushed motors are now obsolete (unless you really feel a NEED to turn comms)
Nitro cars are no longer required (unless you really NEED to hear a loud car to feel like you're going fast)


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## DynoMoHum

So... Kevin... have you put any of those bad boys on the TurboDyno? 

It'd really be nice to compare the Sphere to the Novak SS... with the same motors, etc... just to see how much of a differance there is with the controlers themselves as the only variable...


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## FishRC

At the last MARS race I ran a 5800 systems in my XX4. This was a first run for me with brushles. Bottom line I was faster, far more stedy power and now looking to decide if I go to the GTB when it is out or with the LRP/Reedy. The 5800 delivered enough power for me and my driving, but want to move to the newer hardware. The 5800 will stay in the XX4 for now, just need to add the fan and a warm weather body.

I agree with Kevinm, this will kill off brushed motors and challange Gas as far as loner run time and power. It will not replace gas, just make gas less attractive to the power hungry, and the lower cost to run.

The brushed moter builders better take note now with the GTB soon to arrive and the LRP/Reedy now out, brushless is pratical in all electric mod classes.


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## kevinm

DynoMoHum said:


> So... Kevin... have you put any of those bad boys on the TurboDyno?
> 
> It'd really be nice to compare the Sphere to the Novak SS... with the same motors, etc... just to see how much of a differance there is with the controlers themselves as the only variable...


I haven't put it on the dyno yet. I'm hoping the Novak system will ship soon so I can test them both on the same day


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## DynoMoHum

In off road you may very well not 'need' more power then you can get with the 5800 and the SS controler... where the GTB and Sphere should help however is in on road racing, perticularly on carpet where amp draw will be higher and the systems should be much more effcient at high loads then the SS is... On 4 cell carpet Oval, it should defffintely be noticably faster to run either the Sphere or the GTB when it comes out... Based on the specs, I also suspect that the GTB will be noticeably faster then the Sphere on a 4 cell carpet oval setup... people will gear to the moon and back... Everyone will be running receiver/fan packs too, cause thermal shutdowns may be the only thing keeping people from putting even bigger gears on.

Yup... I think it's just a matter of time before brushed motors are phased out... People who try burshless pretty quickly realise that the lower maintaince issue is a really big thing and gives you much more time at the track to socialize or even work on your chassis setup...

Looking forward to Kevin's TD testing...


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## Donn

Nick since I work there I was able to purchase mine direct, but not until they were ship out and all the orders were filled. I started a Naztruck class and there are 3 of us that are running the LRP/Reedy combination in Sportsman mode, while others are running 19t motors.

In the main I ran 43 4:18.0? with a truck body, and the 19T Stock car class ran 46 laps in the main, I think that the body and down force might give them the edge to run the extra 3 laps...

But the class is really happening, we were at Jimmy Babcocks "Hot Rod Hobbies" in Saugus, Ca for the once a month oval run and 5 drives showed up with their trucks. But for our normal South West Tour series coming up this weekend I have somewhere in the neighborhood of 12 to 15 drivers saying they were bringing trucks. I will let you know how it all turns out..hopefully more people will get into the brushless, I have to say I really like it...find the gear for the track and go, no more comm cutting and I am hooked.


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