# A detail that I didn't see!!!



## ajn6329 (May 25, 2005)

Hi All

I was thumbing for the new trek movie at TrekCore and found a pic of a close-up of Sulu's uniform sleeve and the weave appears to be the Starfleet emblem...don't know if this has been discussed before, but thought I'd share just in case...

http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/xi/screencaps/trailer2/atrailer047.jpg

allen


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## JeffG (May 10, 2004)

Here's another little tidbit I found out that was posted on a contest on facebook. One of our favorite droids makes a cameo in the film too; R2-D2. From what they say, in the scene when the Enterprise comes out of warp into the debris field, after it makes the barrel roll there's a cut to the Bridge interior and during an over the shoulder shot as Kirk is looking at the viewscreen, apparently R2 is floating amongst the debris from about the upper center of the screen to the bottom!


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## Griffworks (Jun 24, 2002)

Got the following error message when trying to click the link: 

*Forbidden*

You don't have permission to access /gallery/albums/xi/screencaps/trailer2/atrailer047.jpg on this server.
Additionally, a 404 Not Found error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.

Looks like hot linking isn't allowed. Can you get us the link to the gallery section in which the pic appears? 


BTW, I thought that's what it looked like for the uniforms having the StarFleet emblem weaved in. Wasn't real sure and have no clue if it's been discussed before. Pretty kewel, regardless.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Yeah, the material for all the uniforms has the starfleet emblem all over it, just like Superman has the S woven into his uniform as a pattern in ..._Returns_.

It's a trend that I find pointless and annoying.


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## mikephys (Mar 16, 2005)

I didn't notice that particular detail in either movie. I have no emotional response to it either way.
Maybe it's Starfleet's way of cutting down on counterfeit uniforms.


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

Maybe somebody could tell us what to click (in order) to get to that image? The path is not obvious from the link.

For example: to see McCoy's uniform: movies.trekcore.com to "ST:XI" (on left) to "images/screencaps" to "pre-release screencaps" to page 2, column 1, row 4.

Thanks.


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## TrekFX (Apr 15, 2004)

If you snip off the

/atrailer047.jpg

from the URL, you can access a parent directory you can navigate through.


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## Paulbo (Sep 16, 2004)

Followed TrekFX's advice and viewed the picture. While I like the look of the "texture" from afar, I think having the emblem plastered all over them is overkill and a little too cutesy.


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## Raist3001 (Oct 23, 2003)

Yea, something as minute as this which needed to be viewed so close up is so dang blasted annoying.


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## Griffworks (Jun 24, 2002)

I'm not sure how it's a bad thing. To me, it's an interesting detail that has no real relevance to the story beyond a kinda kewel sub-Treknical continuity detail. The USAF at one point during the test phases of our new (relatively speaking) ACU had put the USAF Logo in the camo pattern as a sort of "watermark". Doesn't at all strike me as odd that it might become standard for our fictional StarFleet to do the same. 



TrekFX said:


> If you snip off the
> 
> /atrailer047.jpg
> 
> from the URL, you can access a parent directory you can navigate through.


BTW, the direct link is: 
http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/xi/screencaps/trailer2/


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## FyreTigger (May 31, 2005)

According to an article I read on the web, The uniform tunic fabric was "Super Spandex", which is a very heavy weight spandex. This was dye-sub printed on the back side (non-shiny side) with the Starfleet delta. The rolled seams at the collar, shoulder and cuff of the women's uniforms are the only place the shiny side of the spandex is exposed.

Those who want a close-up of the effect can take a look at the wallpapers at iconfactory (see desktop and mobile wallpapers at the bottom of the page):
http://iconfactory.com/startrek/


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## Jafo (Apr 22, 2005)

Raist3001 said:


> Yea, something as minute as this which needed to be viewed so close up is so dang blasted annoying.


just like azteking on a hull.........


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## kylwell (Mar 13, 2004)

Griffworks said:


> I'm not sure how it's a bad thing. To me, it's an interesting detail that has no real relevance to the story beyond a kinda kewel sub-Treknical continuity detail. The USAF at one point during the test phases of our new (relatively speaking) ACU had put the USAF Logo in the camo pattern as a sort of "watermark". Doesn't at all strike me as odd that it might become standard for our fictional StarFleet to do the same.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I was about to say the same thing. The Navy NWU and Marines MARPAT both have their respective symbols interspaced withing the camo pattern.

Yeah, it's a bit of a "see what we can do" but it doesn't distract from the story and only the geeks are going to notice it so who cares.


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## modelmaker 2001 (Sep 6, 2007)

Hundreds of years from now, that Starfleet "uniform" might actually be a cloud of tamed nanites...,


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## Lou Dalmaso (Jul 13, 2004)

the first time i noticed spandex treated like this was on the Spiderman costume. then on Superman. It seems to be standard issue these days


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## modelmaker 2001 (Sep 6, 2007)

I think the patterns are neat idea to subtly convey to the audience that these characters are not wearing everyday clothes.


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## MartinHatfield (Apr 11, 2004)

The way this pattern was created on one of the sizes of action figures from the movie, makes it look like some sort of layered armor. It's just ridiculous how the new fabric making technologies are doing such weird things to our childhood heroes. 

I can see how Starfleet might have developed ths ifabric style for their service tunics. But how did Clark Kent come up with his family crest in the fabric of his suit? Or how did Peter Parker come up with that matching pattern in his blue and red tights on his measly High School budget? Oh yeah, he won the money wrestlin'.


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

I do think it a bit of an overkill, but it is a trend in Trek movies. I remember in Star Trek 5 when the shuttle lands in the Hangar Deck the first time a crewman ruches forward and places a set of stairs at the Shuttle's dor- with a Star Fleet logo on it. I don't know which was more stupid- designing a shuttle where you needed to have stairs placed next to it to exit without jumpng or a logo on them so you would know they were 'official' Star Fleet stairs...


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

androidsuc said:


> Where to get a free ico maker


Are you posting in the right forum or attempting stealth spam?


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

macdacmmnn said:


> Where to get a free ico maker?


_Another_ new member with the same question posted in the wrong forum?


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## jheilman (Aug 30, 2001)

I've seen a few others like that recently. We had a bunch of odd posts last year. Newbies bringing *very* old threads back to life by posting generic nothings or posts that made no sense at all. Beware.


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## Bay7 (Nov 8, 1999)

So, when you see a crewman from another ship - does his uniform have the other ships emblem all over it too?

The enterprise was quite fortunate to have such a sleek looking logo - some of the other emblems looked kinda funny IMO

steve


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## kdaracal (Jan 24, 2009)

modelmaker 2001 said:


> Hundreds of years from now, that Starfleet "uniform" might actually be a cloud of tamed nanites...,


Down, boys, sit!

Good nanites.


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

The NuTrek has the arrowhead emblem for all of Starfleet- the Kelvin even used it on their uniforms before history was altered. 
TOS Trek had different ship's emblems until the movies, then Starfleet adopted the Arrowhead to use everywhere in honor of the service the Enterprise had provided.

Considering the problems Nanites have caused before I am not too keen on having them act as my clothing...


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

Richard Baker said:


> The NuTrek has the arrowhead emblem for all of Starfleet- the Kelvin even used it on their uniforms before history was altered.
> TOS Trek had different ship's emblems until the movies, then Starfleet adopted the Arrowhead to use everywhere in honor of the service the Enterprise had provided.
> 
> Considering the problems Nanites have caused before I am not too keen on having them act as my clothing...


It is possible that in the unaltered past at the beginning of the New Trek, the Kelvin did have the familiar arrowhead emblem. Upon her decommissioning, her emblem was then transferred to the newly constructed Enterprise with Capt. April in command in the original timeline that was the original series. Problem solved!! :thumbsup:


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## bigdaddydaveh (Jul 20, 2007)

The new movie was full of little touches like that. Some were more obvious than others. The design of the cockpit in Spock's ship was my favorite. The layout of the cockpit and seat put a big grin on my face. There's a long shot from the back of the ship looking forward as Spock gets in the seat. The triangle back on the seat and the surrounding round window window frame forms the Vulcan symbol for Eternal Logic. It's the same as the necklace Spock wore in a couple of episodes in TOS.http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/2733/spockship.png and http://trek.popapostle.com/images/episodes/ST-Rebooted/The-Vengeance-of-Nero/IDIC-symbol.jpg


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## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

John P said:


> Yeah, the material for all the uniforms has the starfleet emblem all over it, just like Superman has the S woven into his uniform as a pattern in ..._Returns_.
> 
> It's a trend that I find pointless and annoying.


A good example of the even larger stupid thinking that goes into some of these films.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

bigdaddydaveh said:


> The new movie was full of little touches like that. Some were more obvious than others. The design of the cockpit in Spock's ship was my favorite. The layout of the cockpit and seat put a big grin on my face. There's a long shot from the back of the ship looking forward as Spock gets in the seat. The triangle back on the seat and the surrounding round window window frame forms the Vulcan symbol for Eternal Logic. It's the same as the necklace Spock wore in a couple of episodes in TOS.http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/2733/spockship.png and http://trek.popapostle.com/images/episodes/ST-Rebooted/The-Vengeance-of-Nero/IDIC-symbol.jpg


The IDIC symbol (Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations). Good grief, I hadn't noticed. :lol:


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## lizzybus (Jun 18, 2005)

John P said:


> The IDIC symbol (Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations). Good grief, I hadn't noticed. :lol:


always wondered why it was called IDIC....do Vulcans have the same alphabetical starting points in words we do?

Rich


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## CLBrown (Sep 8, 2010)

Warped9 said:


> A good example of the even larger stupid thinking that goes into some of these films.


The problem I have with this is twofold:

1) Nobody looking at this movie is likely to notice this sort of detail, IF the story is worth watching. If the audience is paying attention to miniscule details of fabric, what does that say about the characterization and plotting???

2) Extra money had to be spent on making this detail. Money which might have been spent on something else, or which might have been NOT spent, making the overall cost of the movie lower.

So... what did this little detail bring to the movie? Did it actually add anything to the enjoyment of any but the absolutely most "fannish" of viewers? And what did it take away from the movie?

Honestly, had they just gone with basic velour, would it have changed the movie in any meaningful way whatsoever? Whether it was a good or a poor film is not affected... AT ALL... by the presence of such silly detail (which NOBODY except a few "hardcore fanboys" have ever even noticed).

On the other hand... the audience DID notice the silly lights shining in peoples' faces, of the fact that half the "ship interiors" were shot in a brewery, or that there were virtually-undisguised barcode readers (of the sort many audience members, themselves, have used when shopping at Costco) all over the bridge.

The brewery, and the barcode readers, and the lights-in-the-eyes... none of those were enough to ruin the flick, but at least they were NOTICEABLE. It's the stuff that the audience is likely to notice... and thus be distracted by, if it seems "out of place"... which is significant.

They tend to bring the audience out of the storytelling. And, if the little on-fabric chevrons were more noticeable, they'd do the same thing. Which is a BAD THING in any case... unless the storytelling NEEDS to be distracted from, I suppose.


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## Richard Baker (Aug 8, 2006)

CLBrown said:


> The problem I have with this is twofold:
> 
> 1) Nobody looking at this movie is likely to notice this sort of detail, IF the story is worth watching. If the audience is paying attention to miniscule details of fabric, what does that say about the characterization and plotting???
> 
> ...


Some of those 'unnecessary details' go far into making a complete world feeling in a film. Ridley Scott went so far as to make custom magazine covers and parking meter decals for 'Blade Runner'. The sets were dressed out so he could film them just like he was on location, it was just a fictional world int he future.
The new Trek film did a lot of things right- it is enjoyable as long as you make a mental disconnect from established canon and just watch it as a film. The Brewery sets were a big mistake- alos having concrete floors on a starship. They were regretable cost saving ideas which did not work. The original design sketches for Engineering were fantastic- wild machinery and people moving through protective tube corridors around them. Hoprefully the next film will make use of those concepts since they di not have to create everything else on a budget.


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## seaQuest (Jan 12, 2003)

John P said:


> Yeah, the material for all the uniforms has the starfleet emblem all over it, just like Superman has the S woven into his uniform as a pattern in ..._Returns_.
> 
> It's a trend that I find pointless and annoying.


It's to make counterfeiting more difficult.:wave:


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## seaQuest (Jan 12, 2003)

CLBrown said:


> The problem I have with this is twofold:
> 
> 1) Nobody looking at this movie is likely to notice this sort of detail, IF the story is worth watching. If the audience is paying attention to miniscule details of fabric, what does that say about the characterization and plotting???
> 
> ...


It's to drive the cosplay fans batcrapcrazy.


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## CLBrown (Sep 8, 2010)

Richard Baker said:


> Some of those 'unnecessary details' go far into making a complete world feeling in a film. Ridley Scott went so far as to make custom magazine covers and parking meter decals for 'Blade Runner'. The sets were dressed out so he could film them just like he was on location, it was just a fictional world int he future.


I understand, that but that's not quite the same thing. Scott wanted a world which seemed familiar (hence the magazine) but not TOO familiar (hence they couldn't be magazines which we actually have sitting on our coffee tables). It would have felt jarring if there had been a 1984 "Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Issue" magazine on the corner of Rick Deckard's piano, I think... 

Again, the issue is to avoid anything likely to pull an audience member out of their "willing suspension of disbelief." Scott, uniformly, gets that part of his filmmaking right. He's a remarkably talented visual filmmaker... no matter whether you love or hate the movie he's making, it always LOOKS good. And it always feels real and believable.

That's entirely opposite of what was mentioned, by myself and by others, re: the details in Trek'09. The things we're talking about here are either utterly irrelevant (the fabric chevrons, which not even the fans noticed unless they studied production stills with magnifying glasses... or did the digital equivalent...) or were the equivalent of Scott filling "Blade Runner" with blatantly contemporary, date-able items in full "up-front" visual framing.


> The new Trek film did a lot of things right- it is enjoyable as long as you make a mental disconnect from established canon and just watch it as a film.


Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree on that point. I've made it no secret that this was the first Trek... EVER...which really made me sad that it had even been made. To me, personally, it was less true to the spirit of the original than even the porno-spoofs were. Your mileage, of course, may vary... and that's perfectly fine.

But to me, the number of things that this film "did right" were remarkably few, and were overshadowed at every turn by the things that it, seemingly intentionally, did wrong. I saw it... once... at the theater, and once on DVD (because someone who knows that I'm a lifelong Trek fan assumed I'd want it for Christmas and gave it to me.) I'm telling you this mainly to be 100% clear... I really, really didn't like it, and I started off with pretty high hopes for it.

For me, it was truly, honestly NOT enjoyable on any level, after the original "Kelvin" sequences were over. (And as an aside, I really wish they'd cast Chris Hemsworth as Jim Kirk... he captured the "feel" of the Captain Kirk I know far, far better than Chris Pine possibly could.)

Personal taste and all that, I guess... no offense if you loved it.


> The Brewery sets were a big mistake- alos having concrete floors on a starship. They were regretable cost saving ideas which did not work.


And interestingly, the cost of making all that custom fabric for the uniforms, had it been left out, could have justified putting down some floor coverings!


> The original design sketches for Engineering were fantastic- wild machinery and people moving through protective tube corridors around them.


Agreed... but the reasoning for them being done in the brewery wasn't, as I understand it, due to cost... but rather, due to people on the production staff never having been inside of a factory of any kind and viewing it all as "wild and amazing" when the majority of us see that sort of thing as remarkably mundane and excessively familiar and recognizable.

Sort of like how the fact that nobody on the production staff has any military experience caused them to entirely miss the "naval feel" that was so well-captured in the original series, and in particular during the first season. Lack of experience or knowledge can lead to some pretty amateurish mistakes... I'm sure, for example, that nobody on the production staff saw ANY issue with having Spock and Uhura (his direct, chain-of-command military subordinate) in a romantic liason, much less her using what amounted to blackmail to get a better posting (and, as a result, pushing someone else OUT of a posting). Or, God help us all, how they'd have a cadet made into a captain... a direct leap from O1 to O7 rank directly past every intermediate rank, and over every other officer in the service. They really didn't see how jarring that would be to anyone who'd actually served.


> Hoprefully the next film will make use of those concepts since they di not have to create everything else on a budget.


Well, I don't care what the sets look like... but it sure would be nice if they took the smart approach... don't make them too visually-overwhelming (the one flaw of the sketches you refer to) but do make them visually distinct from our present time.

I'm sure I'll see the next movie once... unless it turns out that rumors are true and that they're doing a "Khan" movie in which case I'll simply refuse to see it outright, as that will prove that the filmmakers truly "don't get it."


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## MGagen (Dec 18, 2001)

I would have been happier if the plot made even a _lick_ of sense.

Not happy; just happi_er_...

M.


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