# Chassis design



## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

There was a discussion over at the Andy Meyer list about getting a group of people together with the will and ability to get an all-new chassis made.

There was lots of good ideas bandied about and some wild ones. The consensus was that the list is not condusive to such a discussion and that at a forum would be, especially one that has a chat night.

I will try to get the Meyer guys over here, in the meantime I will get the ball rolling.


dw


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

First up what about getting a motor made that is 70%-80% the size of the current Mabuchi can motor, so that all the other wild ideas have room!!

But I encourage people to think more outside the box than that, thats a pretty tame idea of mine....


dw


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## zanza (Sep 23, 2005)

I've also followed this thread on Andy's list...

Even if it's a tame idea as you say, a smaller AND can motor is definitely the good starting point IMHO


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

zanza said:


> I've also followed this thread on Andy's list...
> 
> Even if it's a tame idea as you say, a smaller AND can motor is definitely the good starting point IMHO


I just didn't see the point of a pancake motor. A small can will give much more freedom with regard to bodies and, if need be, the handling/speed of the pancake cars could be built or dialled into the new design.


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## videojimmy (Jan 12, 2006)

small powerful can motors would be a big hit for those of us who like to costumize


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## slotmichl (Sep 20, 2004)

I am with ya! Didn't follow the other list for a while. I could be of help in a matter of CAD design, since I do that all day long!

Michael


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

slotmichl said:


> I am with ya! Didn't follow the other list for a while. I could be of help in a matter of CAD design, since I do that all day long!
> 
> Michael


Yeah, I remember that one you did of my chassis, way cool.
How about doing a mock up or two? Say of a Tomy style can but 80% current size and set up as a sidewinder....

What we really need is someone who can talk to companies like Mabuchi, Sun etc and find out the numbers (units, costs) for something like this.


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## videojimmy (Jan 12, 2006)

a Mabuchi motor designed like a Sizzler's motor.. with two axels coming out instead of one would be VERY cool too


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## Kirk Stimson (May 1, 2003)

> First up what about getting a motor made that is 70%-80% the size of the current Mabuchi can motor, so that all the other wild ideas have room!!


I was the one on Andy's list that was harping on about the pancake motors. I did that because I like the old T-Jets so much. I think the idea of a smaller can motor to fit a smaller, T-Jet size, chassis is a good suggestion. The only thing I'm concerned with is the speed. Anyone that races stock T-Jets the most, probably has a darned twisty layout. I do. It's not that I'm old, blind, and can't follow the super fast magnet cars. I just like tweeking up the old T-Jet chassis, and running the smaller bodies at those slower speeds. It's just a matter of preference. If a can motor, or other in-line type motor, could be made to accomodate both super fast racing, and slower, T-Jet speed, racing, you could count me in %100. :thumbsup:


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

videojimmy said:


> a Mabuchi motor designed like a Sizzler's motor.. with two axels coming out instead of one would be VERY cool too


don't know those, show me!


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## videojimmy (Jan 12, 2006)

here you go.. i hope this works


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

videojimmy said:


> here you go.. i hope this works


Direct drive, like a Rattler only wider?
So what do you mean by 2 axles coming out?


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

Kirk Stimson said:


> I was the one on Andy's list that was harping on about the pancake motors. I did that because I like the old T-Jets so much.


maybe a can motor can be geared/wound to give the performance you crave.
I know when I did RC the off road cars were often sidewinder but there was a gear between the the pinion and drive gear which made a lot of difference. Rather like the 'top tray' on a TJ but without making fitting low bodies such a pain?


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## Slott V (Feb 3, 2005)

You guys ever seen Ed Bianchi's Rattler chassis?:










http://horacepro.com/rattler.html


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## videojimmy (Jan 12, 2006)

yeah, I have a few of them. I forgot about his site. I think that motor design is a good one and should be used in more chassis


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

videojimmy said:


> yeah, I have a few of them. I forgot about his site. I think that motor design is a good one and should be used in more chassis


But you need some traction magnets or tracks wired for brakes?


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## videojimmy (Jan 12, 2006)

I never understood the whole brake thing.. isn;t just cutting down on power the same thing as brakes?

Not being serious racer, I never really understood what it was all about


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

videojimmy said:


> I never understood the whole brake thing.. isn;t just cutting down on power the same thing as brakes?
> 
> Not being serious racer, I never really understood what it was all about


No, brakes uses a third wire and reverses the motor.


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## Kirk Stimson (May 1, 2003)

Montoya1 said:


> maybe a can motor can be geared/wound to give the performance you crave.
> I know when I did RC the off road cars were often sidewinder but there was a gear between the the pinion and drive gear which made a lot of difference. Rather like the 'top tray' on a TJ but without making fitting low bodies such a pain?


Yeah, that sounds promising. I also like the Rattler design, but it is waaaay to big for my taste. If someone could desing something like a Rattler that would fit a T-Jet body, that would be awesome.


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## videojimmy (Jan 12, 2006)

yeah.. what Kirk said!


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## 2.8powerranger (Dec 13, 2004)

A can would be cool,,tunability would be cooler,such as a can that could have the possibility to change magnets and arms.if you go pancake, how about maybey the slide guide, kind of like the tyco pros used ,only wires going to brush barrels,use the tri-lam with a few other winds denoted by wire color,base it on the t/o or afx style chassis.that type of guide would allow some sliding and such.you could also body them accordingly,,muscle cars with a drag type wind,,can- am with a road course wind and maybe high speed high torque arm for the trans am type cars,that would also help the already established market for different crown gears and such,you could really do some mix and matching,magnet cars are pretty cool but the realism comes in my opinion from cars that are more true to the handling of a real car.heres another idea just to throw out there,,how bout a slide guide front end with some magnets in it ,the guide would keep the car in the slot like a magnet car would ,but the rear could cut loose some,,,and not de-slot near as bad,fun for outlaws and sprints.that adds another whole dimension to the racing.and from what it seems like,,,that is what people want ,but without getting to far away from the roots.just my 2 cents worth.
matt :wave:


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## noddaz (Aug 6, 1999)

Has anyone tried a motor from a LL T-Chassis?
It is smaller than a Tomy can.....


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## videojimmy (Jan 12, 2006)

the LL motors are thiner but a little bit longer than tomy's


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

Deane,brakes don't reverse the motor,brakes throw the motor into a dead short.
Same principle as laying a steel bar across the track rails.
The Brake wire runs directly back to your negative (-) post of your power supply,that's the easy way to wire brakes


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

Hornet said:


> Deane,brakes don't reverse the motor,brakes throw the motor into a dead short.


My bad! I knew it was something like that.


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

noddaz said:


> Has anyone tried a motor from a LL T-Chassis?
> It is smaller than a Tomy can.....


it has potential, as an inline, to make some great open wheel cars, and I'd love to see what could be done with moving the magnets nearer the arm.

Trouble is nobody knows who the motor is made by? If LL abandon it we would be UTCWAP!


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## Kirk Stimson (May 1, 2003)

I don't know if anyone on this list knows Earl Harris, but I was telling him about this conversation, and he mentioned that Aurora, back in the early 70s, had the kind of concept of which we are discussing with their Xlerator 2 chassis. I don't know much about those, but the ones Bob Beers has in his book sure look like they would work. Would have to get rid of the bottom side plastic flare, though. That is definately an inline chassis, though.


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## Slott V (Feb 3, 2005)

Montoya1 said:


> No, brakes uses a third wire and reverses the motor.


I'm thinking you may already know this but just for everyone else:

The "brake" circuit in slot cars is a shorted dynamic brake, which means when you stop power to the armature the brake wire shorts the rails. Without a brake circuit, the armature acts as a generator when slowing down but the small current generated simply disipates through the rails and the motor coasts. When applying a brake wire and connecting the 2 power rails, this forces the armature to work against the magnets as it slows the chassis. The amount of current the arm generates is proportional to the speed of the chassis. If you want to see this effect, try spinning your chassis on a Dremel wheel, then shorting the pick up shoes together. This same effect could also drive brake lights on HO cars but causes the braking effect. You could actually build a small circuit with resistors and a capacitor that could generate brake lighting to LED's and not affect the car _too_ much. The capacitor would allow the lights to stay on momentarily after the car stops.  

Fancy controllers have many ways of tuning the brake. Trying to race without the ability to control braking can be like throwing out an anchor so most club guys don't bother with brakes.

Real dynamic brakes can be seen in diesel electric locomotives. Ever wonder why the train engine revs on a passenger train as it comes to a stop at the station? That's the dynamic braking. In simple terms; The current is reversed to the traction motors and the heat generated from resistance is dissipated through large capacitor plates near the roof of the engine cabin. Large fans on the roof cool the plates.


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## T-jetjim (Sep 12, 2005)

Years ago, I put together a t-jet chassis with a Tyco motor. The Tycopro's could scream past the t-jets, so I figured if I could put a Tyco can motor in the T-jet, I could get the speed of Tyco and the handling of the T-jet. I used existing gears from the t-jet (since this was all I had growing up). I stuck it inside a Lola GT with no problem.
The car does not have great pick up, but has about the same top speed as a T-jet. It is also much quieter. 
Jim


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## jonnyblac (Nov 27, 2006)

Reviving this thread. I was the one on the mail list who suggested the belt drive sidewinder. I offered to try to come up with a CAD model, but I am just too swamped right now to even consider it. It may be doable in the depth of winter though. If I can proceed, I'd need is a starting point for an existing chassis to get the model in good proportions. I'm looking for suggestions for a chassis that is slim and low. Ideas?


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## Mike(^RacerX^) (Mar 15, 2003)

Do you mean by utilizing an already availible "can" type motor??????

I really dig the ideas of Bianchis Rattler.I might even have to get one or two to play around with.

But,I like the idea of the belt drive.For one,by changing pully sizes,you are givin options for "gearing".

And secondly,no more gears getting their teeth ground off and worn out.Pulleys really wouldnt wear out,tho the belts would.But that wouldnt really be that costly.

Since way back when I was a kid during the "brass war" days,I was always intrigued by the idea of building chassis from scratch.I seemto always be kicking some kind of an idea around in my head on how to go about it.

I like the whole idea on the belt drive.Would be interested as well to see what ideas others have,as I missed the chat about it on the DL.

Mike


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

I remember Alan Galinko already did this with a pancake car (I mean belt drive).


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

Well, I still think the best option is to get a bespoke motor made by Mabuchi (or someone else) that is 80% the size of current can motors.
Also I have just heard that my idea for adjustable traction magnets is NOT going to be picked up by AW, so I might as well throw that into the ring...


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## Mike(^RacerX^) (Mar 15, 2003)

Yeah,I remember that one too Deane.

I think someone else did it as well.

If my tired old memory serves me correctly,I kind of remember seeing pancake belt drives go by me on epay in the last 2 or 3 years.

Mike


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## afxgns (Jul 6, 2006)

If you guys will try googling electronic surplus, I think you find some interesting stuff. There are numerous pager,cd, phone etc. motors that can be had for pennys. (if you buy in bulk.)
Many of these places will supply an engineering sample if you ask.
These motors are made for low voltage, but I have some and they run fine on 18 v.d.c. They are also TINY. The ones I have are .280 x .531 can and have an .040 shaft coming out one end.
I personally think that a front engine chassis with a drive shaft would be the way to go.
I would try a settup that will allow for a coasty car. These are the most popular for the aging hobbiest.
also I would try to use as many existing parts as possible, if not all.

Tim


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## Mike(^RacerX^) (Mar 15, 2003)

Tim......

Any links for these surplus motors??????

I also agree to try to use as many existing parts possible.

I went through my parts box earlier.Found a few old Mattel Sizzler motors in there,same as the SRT motors,but with the shaft coming out both ends like the Rattler.

At the moment,Im hung up on these SRT motors.
If only there were a way I could make one with a longer armature shaft.  

Mike

PS Deane,could you please refresh my memory with some pics of your chassis design.I searched HT,but found nothing.


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

I always figured if you could make a gear or belt driven jack screw that'd raise the magnet as the car went down the track,the drag racing guys would beat a path to your door :thumbsup:


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## videojimmy (Jan 12, 2006)

YES.. AFX.. if you could provide a link to the company selling the motors you described... that woud be great!

Bettr yet, do you have a few to sell?


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## videojimmy (Jan 12, 2006)

I was loooking at an AFX speed steer chassis and thinking about the possiblity of turning it into a 4 wheel drive. The arm has two long axels coming out. It looks like it would be a pretty straight forward conversion. It's in-line and with some trimming, it could be made very thin.


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## Mike(^RacerX^) (Mar 15, 2003)

videojimmy said:


> I was loooking at an AFX speed steer chassis and thinking about the possiblity of turning it into a 4 wheel drive. The arm has two long axels coming out. It looks like it would be a pretty straight forward conversion. It's in-line and with some trimming, it could be made very thin.



Wasnt it our pal Rick that did a 4WD conversion of some sort a while back?????

Mike


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

Mike(^RacerX^) said:


> Tim......
> 
> Deane,could you please refresh my memory with some pics of your chassis design.I searched HT,but found nothing.












http://www.bglawns.com/Mk1 (35b).JPG


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## videojimmy (Jan 12, 2006)

Hey Mike, I don;t know... I have made one from a marchon chassis and I posted the pics a few moinths back. I also made a 4WD from a t-jet, but those are somehwhat common

I;ll re-post the Marchon 4WD chassis again of you'd like to see it.


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## neorules (Oct 20, 2006)

*new chassis*

Is that the adjustable magnet illustrated in this car? Also I didn't catch if there was a specific pupose for the new design. Is it to make the fastest production car offered or just something different?


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

neorules said:


> Is that the adjustable magnet illustrated in this car? Also I didn't catch if there was a specific pupose for the new design. Is it to make the fastest production car offered or just something different?


My chassis shows far more magnetic travel than you would need in a magnet car but I do think it is worth pursuing in this context as the design could go from magnatraction levels of downforce all the way to unlimited, and can be removed if want to run at Tjet levels without the chassis being weakened.


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## Mike(^RacerX^) (Mar 15, 2003)

Jimmy:I would love to see the pics of your chassis again.

Deane:Thanks for the pics.Love the idea of the adjustable magnets.Love the chassis too.

One other thing to throw out there regarding gears and drive systems.
WHat about sifting through watch making or clock making suppliers?????Tons and tons of small gears used in those applications.

On a totally off topic note:

Is there a search engine to use out there besides Google?????
EVERY FREAKIN time I do a search,the first 2 or 3 pages of results take me to pages that give me links to buy things!!!! Argh!!!!

The wheels(or pulleys and gears in this instance)are spinning in my head on this whole chassis thing.More ideas later,and hopefully,some more folks will come out of hiding and throw some ideas into the mix.

Mike


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## zanza (Sep 23, 2005)

Mike, in Google if you don't want to have first three pages of full of eeeBay offers, just put in your search

-eeebay (a minus in front of the most coming word)


So if you're looking for a chrome wheels set for a Aurora Mustang your search should look like this:

chrome wheels set Aurora Mustang -eeebay


Hope it can help


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## afxgns (Jul 6, 2006)

Mike(^RacerX^) said:


> Tim......
> 
> Any links for these surplus motors??????
> 
> ...


The following link should take you to a very interesting site

http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/category/400200/DC_Motors.html

Lots of stuff, all dims seem to be in inches. The pager motors are the most interesting to me.


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## sped (Nov 20, 2004)

Guys, 

I don't want to discourage your quest for motors but trying these pager motors etc in slot cars won't get you much - trust me I know. I have dissected many and I will say that most of these tiny motors do not have brushes that are worth anything. They are miniscule. I have had 6V motors running at 12V and they do get hot. You can add a resistor, or if you have an adjustable supply drop the voltage. But trying to get any useful life out of these things, especially super small ones will be futile. Many don't even have actual brushes as you and I think of them. Some are just small pieces of thin filiment rubbing against the comm. Force too much juice into them and they get hot, build up soot on the brushes and they they go "poof"

In the 70's the pros used to alter these mabuchi style cans and I can say that there is room to make them smaller as Montoya is suggesting. Going to a more powerful, but smaller size magnet will help. Going from a 14 or 15 stack (lam) motor to a 10-12 stack will make it a tad shorter. Current mabuchi cans are roughly .375"x.710"x.75". Based on my observations I think a 15-20% reduction is possible with a slight impact on performance. The question is will that really anwer your needs?

R. Picard
www.slotcarinnovations.com


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

does the same problem occur with zipzap motors which are basically hotted pager-type motors?
I like the reduced can idea, how much work would be involved in building one?


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## sped (Nov 20, 2004)

Montoya1 said:


> does the same problem occur with zipzap motors which are basically hotted pager-type motors?
> I like the reduced can idea, how much work would be involved in building one?


Zip Zap motors are run on 3Volts max. I have taken these apart after I smoked one. They are great for their application but unless someone steps down the power to 3 volts there is no way you can run these on slot tracks. Even at 6 volts it only lasted about 2 laps, started to get slow then it just stopped. I ripped open th can and and as I mentioned before the brushes are just thin stips of copper or something like that. Think of a TOMY turbo motor without the copper brush attacked to the copper spring. The strip of copper rubs up against the comm directly. The comm was heavily scored and black. The brushes melted. 

R. Picard
www.slotcarinnovations.com


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

sped said:


> Zip Zap motors are run on 3Volts max. I have taken these apart after I smoked one. They are great for their application but unless someone steps down the power to 3 volts there is no way you can run these on slot tracks. Even at 6 volts it only lasted about 2 laps, started to get slow then it just stopped. I ripped open th can and and as I mentioned before the brushes are just thin stips of copper or something like that. Think of a TOMY turbo motor without the copper brush attacked to the copper spring. The strip of copper rubs up against the comm directly. The comm was heavily scored and black. The brushes melted.
> 
> R. Picard
> www.slotcarinnovations.com


I figured at is what he deal would be, based partly on conversations we have had in the past.
I guess someone needs to make that 80% Mabuchi can!


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## videojimmy (Jan 12, 2006)

what kind of resistor would you need to step the 12 volts down to 3 volts?


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

would that actually be worth it, would not the car be way to slow?


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## sped (Nov 20, 2004)

videojimmy said:


> what kind of resistor would you need to step the 12 volts down to 3 volts?


Not sure exactly, as I do not recall the amperage the little bugger draws. Its not huge, but to montoya's point it won't be very fast. You are better to get 6V motor running at 12V max as the rpms are still pretty good. Trying to gear it up a zip zap motor would not be too effective either as these tiny motors have very little torque.

When I ran the thing at 6V using standard 7:22 gearing it was about as fast as a poorly tuned slimline Tjet. Not very promising.....

Motor theory is not rocket science, but it is somewhat of a chore to design a motor - but it all boils down to the amount of copper windings and the power of the magnets. Each, even with the most up to date technology, have physical limits. Which brings us back to a can motor 80% the size of the current standard. What does that actually give you? At that size a sidewinder chassis is possible - but if you want traction magnets where do they go now that the motor is so close to the rear axle. The gear ratios available in a sidewinder are supposedly more diverse than an inline, but I am not sure that is that big of a factor in HO scale racing since the motors are so fast anyway. In the larger scales, sidewinder/anglewinders are the chassis of choice. So then if the impact on HO racing is small what else does the sidewinder give you? Maybe the ability to have a full cockpit on can am style open racers? That would be cool, but not sure its a big - "gotta have" for most of us. I know Montoya wants a more slender inline, so more accurate F1 cars can be done......not sure if this is 80% can would be small enough.


R. Picard
www.slotcarinnovations.com


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

sped said:


> not sure if this is 80% can would be small enough.
> 
> 
> R. Picard
> www.slotcarinnovations.com


My thinking was that a sidewinder motor mounted *behind* the axle would enable much more accurate F1 bodies, even 2006 ones with all those swoops, plates and sculpting. To counteract the weight of the motor so far back there would be room for two pair of adjustable traction magnets amidships.


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## Slott V (Feb 3, 2005)

videojimmy said:


> what kind of resistor would you need to step the 12 volts down to 3 volts?


You need a 480 ohm resistor to step from 12 to 3 with varying wattage depending on your input amperage.

You need a much hotter motor than those pager motors. Pager vibrators just spin a weight for a couple of seconds. Trying to push a slot car around at variable speeds takes more work/power than those little motors are capable of.


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## Slott V (Feb 3, 2005)

*4 wheel drive?*

Here are pictures of an all wheel drive Tyco 440X2 someone posted on my old BBS years ago. I made one just like this also. It was fun to do but you quickly discover the car is slower than a rear wheel drive car. You would think the AWD would be an advantage, but the problem is the motor is doing twice as much work. Would be interesting to build this with a modified armature and polymer magnets to see what happens.



















-Scott


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

Slott V said:


> Here are pictures of an all wheel drive Tyco 440X2 someone posted on my old BBS years ago. I made one just like this also. It was fun to do but you quickly discover the car is slower than a rear wheel drive car. You would think the AWD would be an advantage, but the problem is the motor is doing twice as much work. Would be interesting to build this with a modified armature and polymer magnets to see what happens.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What would happen if you also used twin-compound tyres? This give a lot more grip than sponges and might make AWT worthwhile?


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

How would you go about offsetting the extra weight.
Traction really isn't a problem in the magnet cars.
Adding weight doesn't appear to be a good thing in a mag car,they like to be as light as possible.
Where you might find a benefit would be the new G-jet/ThunderStorm cars,and i still think the extra weight would be your biggest hinderance

Alot of these ideas were already tested into the ground back in the heyday of slotcar innovations,late 60's early 70's,and they never panned out then either.
Keep trying though.
Remember if we think of it now,somebody probably already did it 30/40 years ago,and if it didn't work then,odds are it still won't.


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## videojimmy (Jan 12, 2006)

"Remember if we think of it now,somebody probably already did it 30/40 years ago,and if it didn't work then,odds are it still won't"

No offense, but that if everyone thought that way, we'd still be using candles for light


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## Slott V (Feb 3, 2005)

Montoya1 said:


> What would happen if you also used twin-compound tyres? This give a lot more grip than sponges and might make AWT worthwhile?


Hmmm I'm not sure what twin-compund tires are. Do you mean coated sponge tires like AST? The tires in those pictures are neoprene knobbies that come on one of the Tyco pick up trucks. The chassis I made used regular Tyco tires all around. The chassis wasn't slow due to traction loss. It was more limited in RPM.


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

The 4X4 /double guide-pin ideas were tested to death years ago VJ,back in the brass pan era,what has changed since then.If i remember,i think the guys that tried the 4X4 idea,figured the front wheels were actually trying to pull the guide-pin in a straight line,hindering it's corning ability on top of the extra weight being an acceleration handicap 
Heck do it yourself,nobodies stopping you,and when you produce a faster laptime with the idea let us know,we'll be waiting with bated breath,just remember there isn't nothing in this hobby that's new,pretty well everything new is a re-hash of an old idea, everything has already been done once somewhere :wave: .
PS,i still use candles,  :wave:


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## Mike(^RacerX^) (Mar 15, 2003)

Hornet said:


> Alot of these ideas were already tested into the ground back in the heyday of slotcar innovations,late 60's early 70's,and they never panned out then either.
> Keep trying though.
> Remember if we think of it now,somebody probably already did it 30/40 years ago,and if it didn't work then,odds are it still won't.


Rick,I have to agree with you on that.
Tho my memory is hazy at best of the "old days".I was hoping that some of the guys who have been around and were heavily involved back then,that are on the mailing DL would chime in.

I guess the fun of kicking something like this around is trying to think "outside the box"if you will.
And my little searches on the topic have led me to some interesting places on the ol' www.

For instance,last night,in my quest for small gears and pullys,I got side tracked into the whole world of horography,which isthe science of time and watch and clock making.
THOSE guys are NUTS!!!!!! Some of the tools things that they use to build time pieces from scratch are amazing.

So whatever becomes of it,its fun to kick ideas around.

Mike


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

You got that right Mike.
I didn't mean to discredit anybodies ideas,if i can across that way ,sorry guys.
I'm a firm believer in thinking outside the box myself.
I've always thought we've needed more watch makers in this hobby,throw in a couple surgical instrument makers and man look at what we could have for gadgets, :thumbsup:


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## Mike(^RacerX^) (Mar 15, 2003)

One more thing I just thought of to throw into the mix.......

What about utilizing an already exsisting motor that is already availible and used for model railroading?????

I just did a really fast search on N Gauge motors,and saw some things that look interesting.

Found this site,I plan to look at it later on after I do some guitar and amp maintainance for my show Friday:

http://www.nwsl.com/Brochure%20Pages/BrochureMotors.htm

I'll be back. :wave: 

Oh yeah,Rick,if there's anything I can do to help you with your home lighting issue,let me know.I have a few old lamps and drop lights kicking around here that you are more then welcome to. :tongue: 

Mike


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## Dunk2011 (May 21, 2006)

what kind of motor do you use for the direct drive cars???


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

If you're still looking for furnace ducting,I'll trade ya :thumbsup: :wave: :wave:


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

Dunk2011 said:


> what kind of motor do you use for the direct drive cars???


In theory any can motor, but you have to know how to push the shaft through.


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## Mike(^RacerX^) (Mar 15, 2003)

Hornet said:


> If you're still looking for furnace ducting,I'll trade ya :thumbsup: :wave: :wave:



LOL.....Im good.
Still heating the ol' basement with a load of dry towels and taking the exhaust hose off the dryer.

Mike


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

LOL:I'm thinking maybe a K&N cone filter ,clamp it right on the hose end :thumbsup: :wave:


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## Dunk2011 (May 21, 2006)

how do you push the shaft through???


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

Dunk2011 said:


> how do you push the shaft through???


Only Ed Bianchi (The Rattler guy) and one other chap have done it as far as I know. I imagine the use of something to hold the arm or can still and then use a wheel press.


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

As long as it's not an epoxied arm,it should slide pretty easy with a normal wheel press,just be careful of the com,as you'll be pushing on it pretty hard.Usually do-able with the arm still in the can,but once in awhile you'll run into a stuborn one,and you'll have to remove the arm from the can to slide it
Practice sliding the shaft on old dead arms first.
JW has a adapter for a standard wheel press to make the job a little easier,you'll find it down at the bottom of this page

http://www.csonline.net/vwalters/newpage2/mprod.htm

If you need a longer shaft,i have successfully slid a #53 drill blank (0.0595")into place,this will give a super long shaft that you'll have to trim to length
Dean a bit of trivia for you:WizzardHO,used to slide all his arm shafts when he first came out with the P-cars,sliding shafts is actually pretty common


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

Hornet said:


> As long as it's not an epoxied arm,it should slide pretty easy with a normal wheel press,just be careful of the com,as you'll be pushing on it pretty hard.Usually do-able with the arm still in the can,but once in awhile you'll run into a stuborn one,and you'll have to remove the arm from the can to slide it
> Practice sliding the shaft on old dead arms first.
> Dean a bit of trivia for you:WizzardHO,used to slide all his arm shafts when he first came out with the P-cars,sliding shafts is actually pretty common


I did three, and killed all of 'em - but them I'm a clutz!


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## Mike(^RacerX^) (Mar 15, 2003)

Montoya1 said:


> I did three, and killed all of 'em - but them I'm a clutz!


I did it with a old SRT motor the other night.My method was crude,with a small ball peen and a punch,but it worked.

Now I have had my eye on a "one size fits all press" for wheels and what not.
This might also work for arm shafts as well:

http://www.ares-server.com/Ares/Ares.asp?MerchantID=RET01229&Action=Catalog&Type=Product&ID=60627

Santa might be bringing me one of these.

Mike


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

I made up a small cheap,i think wood vise years ago to slide arm shafts.It was a little table clamp model with flat faced jaws,i closed the jaws and drilled a hole through the first jaw,and let the bit just dimple the face of the other jaw,i did it in my little drill press but if you're careful you could do the same thing with a dremel and a bit.It wasn't perfect but it actually worked okay as long as you were careful and kept a close eye on the com wires.
Mike:i hope Santa gets you one too,lol,i've been looking at them myself.
If you get one,let us know how it works


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

I gotta wonder what all you guys did with the resutant motors! Never did see anyone copy the Rattler idea, should be fairly easy to do though, I'll see if I can get a chassis made.


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

LOL,i was doing it so i could use old short shaft arms in P-cars


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## Slott V (Feb 3, 2005)

I had to push that motor shaft in that Tyco just a bit to get the front pinion on. It can be done carefully.

Have you guys ever seen those 1/32 slim motors they have for F1 cars? I think it's an old design though. The magnets are behind the motor and curved flux plates carry the magnetism to the arm. I can't find an image of this old 1/32 chassis though. Maybe somebody knows the name? -Scott V.


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

yeah i know of them, i think they used to be used in trains too. Very heavy I think....


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## Slott V (Feb 3, 2005)

I have so many engineering/prototyping/milling tools available to me I've always wanted to design a slot car chassis. It's one of those dream things. I really admire the chassis you developed Montoya.
:thumbsup:


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

Slott V said:


> I have so many engineering/prototyping/milling tools available to me I've always wanted to design a slot car chassis. It's one of those dream things.
> 
> [:thumbsup:


You should totally do it!


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## Mike(^RacerX^) (Mar 15, 2003)

I thought something like this might have potential:

http://www.nigellawton009.com/MiniMotors.html

Mike


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## Mike(^RacerX^) (Mar 15, 2003)

Just a few things I was messing with.Id hate to see this thread die off.I really enjoy this type of stuff.

So like the nut case I am,I have been carrying around one of those tiny Plano pocket boxes that guys use for fishing lures full of motors and parts and a G3 roller.

My searches on the net for a small motor that could be used have turned up nothing.I was hoping to find a place where I could get the small open frame type SRT/Tyco Pro motors in bulk.

I decided to try to rebuild one of these motors the other day.The one I had was one that I had from an old Mattel Sizzler.Smoked it after about 2 milliseconds on 12 volts.

So it was a cinch to take apart.The motor brushes were smoked.Looked in my parts box,and found a pack of On Slot silver brushes that I use when I rebuild G3 bulkheads.
Well I'll be a son of a gun,the brushes for the G3 are an EXACT replacement for the ones in the can motor,only heavier duty.

Put those in,advanced the timing a bit,and threw in an On Slot Blue Puma hot stock arm I had for a G3.

Assembly and disassembly of the motor was a walk in the park.

Ran it on 10 volts to break in the brushes.Then ran her up to full power.The thing SCREAMS!!!!!!!!

SO what did I accomplish?????? Well,I see now how easy it is to "hop up" and tune oneof these "can motors".

Then it made me think maybe the way to go is with designing a motor that uses pre exsisting parts.

But when I try to do that,all I can come up with is something like the Decosmo T3.

Oh well.I still find it fun anyways.

Mike


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## noddaz (Aug 6, 1999)

Mike(^RacerX^) said:


> *snip**chop**hack*Well I'll be a son of a gun,the brushes for the G3 are an EXACT replacement for the ones in the can motor,only heavier duty.
> 
> Put those in,advanced the timing a bit,and threw in an On Slot Blue Puma hot stock arm I had for a G3.
> 
> ...


Interesting...
That really is.....
I have a smoked G3 (Don't ask, it's a long story...) and I was thinking about sticking a LL arm in it...


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## noddaz (Aug 6, 1999)

*Stolen From A Previous Page!!!!!*



Dunk2011 said:


> what kind of motor do you use for the direct drive cars???


Here is a direct drive car...
http://horacepro.com/rattler.html
And here is a picture of the same...








(Thanks Ed for the use of the picture and link that I just took without permission...)


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## Dunk2011 (May 21, 2006)

whoever has thsi chassis i want a bare one, (no motor gears tires axels) just plain i'll give you $3 for one :thumbsup:


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

$3 would not cover much!
Lots of back story here, I'll try to remember to swing by here tonight (UK time) and fill you in.


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## Mike(^RacerX^) (Mar 15, 2003)

Montoya1 said:


> $3 would not cover much!
> Lots of back story here, I'll try to remember to swing by here tonight (UK time) and fill you in.


Please do.I look forward to hear what you have tosay.


Mike


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