# OT: So now what.



## Pete McKay (Dec 20, 2006)

Jimmy Johnson wins his 5th Cup title in a row, even though it was close and went to the last race the yawn factor was about 6.2/10. 

Tomorrow we find out if Petty Enterprises will still be around in 2011. Sad to think such an icon could be in a position like that, but we all saw it coming. Someday it may be Joe Gibbs, or Roush for that matter. 

Cup guys continue to dominate the Nationwide Series, there's talk of limiting their participation in that series....

So now what. We have 12 weeks until Daytona. 90 days, 15 hours, 51 minutes and 26 or so seconds at this writing. What is there to look forward to in 2011? Here's what I would like to see.

The numbers 3 and 43 retired by NASCAR. If Petty Enterprises does go under it would only be fitting to retire the most winning number in racing. Yeah, OK, arguably Richie Evans has won more NASCAR Championships than Richard Petty or anyone else, but we're talking Cup here. Retiring the #3 is just a matter of respect and in my opinion should have been done in 2002. Theresa Earnhardt can go sit and spin if she don't like it. 

Drivers stick to one series. I mean, you don't see someone like Peyton Manning going back to attend college and playing QB in the NCAA do you? No more Cup guys in Nationwide. Or the truck series either even though they get their butts kicked in that series usually.

Get rid of The Chase. So OK, this year is was a little more interesting, but really, it needs to go. I hate seeing that my driver is 7th in points or whatever with 4 races to go and know that there's no way in Hell he's going to win. 

Bring back more 1/2 and 3/4 mile tracks. And add another road course, would be nice if it was a street course too, I mean if the Aussies can do it why can't Bill France? Imagine 43 stock cars racing the streets of San Francisco. OK, maybe not San Francisco, but someplace away from where there's a permanent track. 

I want to see more cars. Mercury's, Buick's, I mean we've already killed Pontiac and Plymouth, two of the biggest names from the past in NASCAR, so throw in a Mercury Milan and Buick Lucern along side the Fusion and Impala, shoot, it's just all decals anyway. Right?

90 days, 46 hours, 22 seconds to go. Someone wake me, OK?


----------



## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

So now what?.....

I didn't even watch yesterday. Harvick was just close enough to taste what should have been his anyway.
It would have been cruel to watch. Again, after race 26, we watched nascar take away a points lead 
from a team that deserved to keep it. Harvick is the real champ, and his team.
The fact that they took that punch in the stomach, and still remained competitive speaks volumes.
Jeff Gordon and his team had done the best to date a few years ago when their 400+ point lead was wiped out.
Kyle Busch and his team absolutely caved when their lead was wiped out a couple years ago.
So, Harvick now falls into that 'shoulda been' category. "Maybe next year"
-------
I bet we see Nissan before we see Buick.
-------
It means too much money for the lower series for a cup driver to step down and race.
What they mean is, they'll try to limit cup driver participation, without limiting the draw.
-------
I read yesterday Everham is still owed money from Gillette, and will sue to break up the contract,
which should free Petty up to find new partners.
-------
Daytona is still fun to watch.
-------
So now what?.....

I guess we watch JJ and friends qualify to the "Chase", and run down number six.
The only way he's not going to win another, is if he doesn't qualify for the Nascar playoffs.
-------

I sorely miss Winston Cup racing.


----------



## LeeRoy98 (Jul 8, 2005)

So you don't like the playoffs in any sports? An undefeated regular season did not guarantee the super bowl crown for the Patriots a few years ago.

Talk about a yawner... have your points leader up by 400+ with 3 to go. Who would watch then?

If Jimmy Johnson can do it, there is no reason the rest of the teams can't. If they don't step up, then there may be a 6th championship in the making. Daytona 2011 there will be the same set of rules and points available for all teams. If the other guy beats you... don't whine, work harder!

Who is to say that if the rules weren't different that some teams might have approached the season differently and Kevin Harvick would not have had the points lead. It seems smart to me that planning to peak during the Chase would make the most sense. I think Chad Knaus would agree, perhaps his competitors should look at their approach to the Chase?

Gary
AKA LeeRoy98
www.marioncountyraceway.com


----------



## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

The 48 team sure makes it look easy. But you know what, they really are that good when it comes to winning the championship under the current formula. Unless there are some major changes to the current format i'm not going to hold my breath waiting for a more charismatic and exciting team to knock off the 48 team. They are already the team to beat for 2011. Considering all the efforts at parity and leveling the playing field it is actually quite amazing that one team has racked up so many championships in a row. Every team is subject to the same rules and is competing on the same tracks week in and week out. 

I think NASCAR will do something to shake things up, just like they did after Kenseth won the championship in very consistent but forgettable fashion under the old format. Fans like to see their favorite drivers win and there are 42 other teams out there vying for attention. Same goes for sponsors. Rivalry builds excitement and that is something that's sorely lacking in NASCAR (and other motorsports) today. Perhaps limiting teams to 2 cars with no sharing of technology, motors, equipment, testing data, etc., between teams other than the 2 cars would help. Perhaps limiting spending would help? How much does each team really spend to get their car on the track for 36 races? I don't think there is a silver bullet solution to restore fan appeal. The old points system was no more exciting when the outcome was apparent in July. 

I don't think NASCAR does anything to prohibit additional brands from participating. The demise of Pontiac, Plymouth, Oldsmobile, Mercury, etc., from NASCAR is nothing more than a reflection of the demise and abandonment of the brands by the brand owners. I'd contend that the companies set all of these brands on a path to obscurity by product homogenization, internally and externally. Once these brands lost significance and differentiation from their sister brands, and even partner company products like Ford/Mercury/Mazda/Volvo, Chevy/Pontiac/Olds/Opel/Holden/Vauxhall then there's no point of maintaining all the brands when you're getting the same thing in a cosmetic repackaging. 

NASCAR is like government spending. Everyone complains about it unless they are the beneficiaries of the spending. I'm sure all the JJ fans are ecstatic about the five-peat. Fans of every other driver in contention want the NASCAR government to step in and make a change. But hey, it could be worse. How are we going to talk the Junior fans back from the ledge? That's going to be a tough job.


----------



## LeeRoy98 (Jul 8, 2005)

AfxToo said:


> The 48 team sure makes it look easy. But you know what, they really are that good when it comes to winning the championship under the current formula. Unless there are some major changes to the current format i'm not going to hold my breath waiting for a more charismatic and exciting team to knock off the 48 team. They are already the team to beat for 2011. Considering all the efforts at parity and leveling the playing field it is actually quite amazing that one team has racked up so many championships in a row. Every team is subject to the same rules and is competing on the same tracks week in and week out.
> 
> I think NASCAR will do something to shake things up, just like they did after Kenseth won the championship in very consistent but forgettable fashion under the old format. Fans like to see their favorite drivers win and there are 42 other teams out there vying for attention. Same goes for sponsors. Rivalry builds excitement and that is something that's sorely lacking in NASCAR (and other motorsports) today. Perhaps limiting teams to 2 cars with no sharing of technology, motors, equipment, testing data, etc., between teams other than the 2 cars would help. Perhaps limiting spending would help? How much does each team really spend to get their car on the track for 36 races? I don't think there is a silver bullet solution to restore fan appeal. The old points system was no more exciting when the outcome was apparent in July.
> 
> ...


Well stated! Thanks!


----------



## beast1624 (Mar 28, 2009)

As a fan of pro cycling this sounds like Lance Armstrong's run at 7 straight TDF titles. He was the first to focus training on that format and master it, just like JJ. His coach (Johan Bruyneel) was the first to master the winning strategy (and followed up the 7 with Lance with 2 more from Alberto Contador) just like Chad. Now others (Alberto with a new team, Andy Schelck) are beginning to get it and the next few years should be an open field.

Hopefully the other NASCAR teams will start to figure it out too. If not we may see 6 or 7 in a row. I'm with AFxToo, NASCAR will try something to shake it up.

As for what I would like to see in the chase: one thing that would be neat is start rotating tracks out. I would love to see the last race be at Daytona one year...start and end there at least once. A road course would be good too. Besides, share the 'playoffs' with other cities like they do with the Super Bowl and playoffs in other sports.


----------



## twolff (May 11, 2007)

Kill the "chase". Go back to the old season-long points system.

Anyone with a active ride in the Cup series should no longer elegible for Nationwide or the Craftsman series. Leave these series for the drivers on the way up.

No more green/white/checker or red flag foolisness. If the best in the world can't run the last 10 laps of a race w/o crashing, let 'em finish under yellow.

Lose the restrictor plates already.


----------



## smalltime (Jun 3, 2006)

AfxToo said:


> NASCAR is like government spending. Everyone complains about it unless they are the beneficiaries of the spending. I'm sure all the JJ fans are ecstatic about the five-peat. Fans of every other driver in contention want the NASCAR government to step in and make a change. But hey, it could be worse. How are we going to talk the Junior fans back from the ledge? That's going to be a tough job.


I'm going to appologize for this now.

If Mr. Moderator wants to delete, I'll understand, but I have to do it.

I live in the Kansas city metro area. I also happen to live in the same county where the Chefs play. My tax dollars are used to support the team to the tune of around three million dollars. That's not so bad, I know. BUT:

We have police officers layed off due to budget cuts, same for firefighters and teachers.

How is Chevrolet any different? 
At last count, they are 40 ish % owned by the the federal govt. That's us guys. I feel they should stop racing 'till they get back on their feet and pay us back. And don't EVEN think about Chrysler.

Sorry to be the buzz kill here, but I have a problem with this arrangement.

Flame away.


----------



## 1976Cordoba (Sep 20, 2000)

I thought GM already paid back the fed loans - early.


----------



## 1976Cordoba (Sep 20, 2000)

And "The Chase" is a frikkin' joke. One guy winning five in a row in an age of so-called 'parity' is absurd. Something is wrong in NASCAR - Big Time Wrong.

Can't blame Hendrick & Johnson I guess . . . I'd continue to exploit this joke format just like they have.

However, at the end of the day - NO, at the end of a career - there will always be an asterisk next to Johnson's name in the minds of many fans . . . "Greatest _CHASE_ Champion ever . . ." Woop-Dee-Doo

My $.02 worth - your mileage may vary.


----------



## 1976Cordoba (Sep 20, 2000)

*2010 Sprint Cup 'Classic' Points Standings:*
[after Homestead, race 36 of 36....the OLD way]:
rank, car#, driver, points, behind
1) #29-Kevin Harvick, 5274
2) #48-Jimmie Johnson, 4989, -285 CHASE CHAMP
3) #11-Denny Hamlin, 4865, -409

*"Classic" 2009 Points Standings*
the OLD way - Driver Points Standings [after Homestead, race 36 of 36]:
*pos, car#, driver, points, behind*
1) #48-Jimmie Johnson (X), 5156 [7 wins] CHASE CHAMP
2) #24-Jeff Gordon (X), 5090, -66 [1 win]
3) #14-Tony Stewart (X), 5085, -71 [4 wins]

*"Classic" 2008 Points Standings*...the old way, not the Chase after Homestead:
(Traditional Points...the old way, not the Chase)
1) #99-Carl Edwards 5236 [9 wins]
2) #48-Jimmie Johnson 5220 -16 [7 wins] CHASE CHAMP
3) #18-Kyle Busch 4984 -252 [8 wins]

*"Classic" 2007 Points Standings*...the old way, not the Chase after Homestead:
(Traditional Points...the old way, not the Chase)
1) #24-Jeff Gordon 5455
2) #48-Jimmie Johnson 5102, -353 CHASE CHAMP
3) #20-Tony Stewart 4749

*"Classic" 2006 Points Standings*...the old way, not the Chase after Homestead:
1) #48-Jimmie Johnson 5158 CHASE CHAMP
2) #17-Matt Kenseth, 5154, -4
3) #29-Kevin Harvick, 4838, -320


----------



## HadaSlot (Oct 22, 2007)

*My link to the Chase*

We I am. not happy about most of it. No cable = No races. Good side= gonna buy a '58 ragtop VW with Herbie sticker package that used to be Carl Edwards brothers car. It doesn't make it more valuable but it is very cool (36 horsepower) and Carls brother is cool as well.


----------



## LeeRoy98 (Jul 8, 2005)

1976Cordoba said:


> *2010 Sprint Cup 'Classic' Points Standings:*
> [after Homestead, race 36 of 36....the OLD way]:
> rank, car#, driver, points, behind
> 1) #29-Kevin Harvick, 5274
> ...


You are making the erroneous assumption that all the teams would have raced the same if the chase had not been in effect. I can probably apply several different Nascar point systems (yes, there were several!!) to make the results different. But what is the point??
Did none of the other drivers not understand the point system?? 
We had 3 drivers on Sunday that were able to win the championship!!! What more do you want???
I assume you were all positively riveted by the Nationwide series this year... what a wonderful suspense that was until about, ummm... mid April? Better yet... let's pull the Cup drivers out and reduce the purses and TV time to... NOTHING!! Most people do not go or watch the Nationwide races to see Joe Unknown beat Jane Neverheardofher... sorry, I watch but most won't. 

Get your head out of the sand... or stop watching Nascar. I'm tired of the whining... my guy didn't win either, he got BEAT!

Gary
AKA LeeRoy98
www.marioncountyraceway.com


----------



## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

> Anyone with a active ride in the Cup series should no longer elegible for Nationwide or the Craftsman series.


I completely understand the sentiment and agree from a driver development standpoint. However, even these so called feeder (or sundowner) series are in dire need of major sponsorship dollars. Sponsors want to see their investments paying off in TV coverage and spotlights. Drop the marquee drivers and you'll be waving bye-bye to several major sponsorships, direct manufacturer involvement, and the TV deals will start to dwindle. I personally love watching the truck races because they are borderline out of control at all times but that whole series is on perpetual death watch from a sponsorship perspective. 

I think NASCAR and all of motorsports is facing an uphill battle no matter what they do. They are in the same position we are with slot cars. They have a legacy that's grounded in times when a significant percentage of the population were in love with the automobile and everything surrounding it. Racing provided a competitive outlet for pitting brand against brand and establishing bragging rights. Young people today are much more likely to pick sides on Playstation versus XBox, Facebook versus MySpace, or Android versus Apple than they are Dodge versus Chevrolet or Ford versus Toyota. That's just the way it is and NASCAR knows that to preserve their business they have to adapt with the times. They recognize that their cheese is being moved and they are trying to adapt to change. Unfortunately for lovers of the motor part of motorsport this means more emphasis on the drivers, the entertainment, and the competitive situations and less emphasis on the cars. 

I think we are overly harsh on NASCAR because it is near and dear to us. I suspect if you start scrutinizing other racing organizations in other parts of the world you will realize that they have made far more unsavory decisions and compromises the the sake of the business than what we have seen with NASCAR, which even in a slump is still a major force to be reckoned with in all of motorsports. The influx of drivers and teams (Penske, Ganassi, Red Bull, etc.) from other forms of racing, including F1, is ample evidence that NASCAR is still a premiere venue and a world class leader in the motorsports industry. They kind of know what they are doing and have the track record to prove it.


----------



## joegri (Feb 13, 2008)

maybe race on dirt for a race or two. did,nt most of these drivers start out on dirt traks.i,m pretty sure i,d watch that.more road courses would be cool too. with a bunch of 1.5 mile ovals on the tour it gets kinda old hat.although i make it a point to watch the pocono race cuz of the configuration of the trak.other than that cup racin has lost it,s shine to me and i just prefer like local racin. good for jimmy johson and his team they,re the best at cup racing this year.


----------



## smalltime (Jun 3, 2006)

1976Cordoba said:


> I thought GM already paid back the fed loans - early.


That's what the media wants you to think:

http://jalopnik.com/5274260/who-owns-the-new-gm

We still own the majority, even with the IPO.

Unless you are like me who actually owns the "old" G.M. stock, then we own doodley.(IE around $.12 a share)


----------



## 1976Cordoba (Sep 20, 2000)

Here, let's just save Gary and the rest of us a bunch of typing . . .

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=270805

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=269252


----------



## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

Well, Gary, I know we've beat this to death before, and we agree to disagree.
I guess the problem is we actually love Nascar stock car racing, that's why we are frustrated with it.
This year is the first year of the Chase format, that the championship wasn't already decided going into the last race.
Talk about falling short of the expected formats goals. It has been a joke.
Jimmy Johnson has also wrapped up the title with three races to go.
I guess you could say he has now won the Chase in just about every way possible.
The thing is, he is not the best racer of the year, just the best of the last ten races.
I wanna quote one of the best write ups in these conversations which pretty much covers all the bases.



AfxToo said:


> To sum it up - I switched from the dull race to watching a re-run of Larry the Cable Guy telling poop jokes on Comedy Central. The Chase format lack of popularity is evidence that no real thought went into it before it was instituted.
> 
> - If you're going to have a "playoff" in NASCAR don't you think you would feature your 10 best, most challenging, and popular racing venues? Other than Martinsville and Talladega, which is a restrictor plate demo derby, they could not have picked a worse lineup of mind numbing, boring, and dull race venues. New Hampshire, Kansas, Homestead, Phoenix, Fontana, etc. What were they thinking? Oh, they weren't, it was just another knee jerk reaction to help boost popularity. Same old short sighted leadership, same old short sighted ideas.
> 
> ...


By the way, in 1992, *SIX* drivers went into the final race with a chance to win the championship.

The Chase is not really a playoff. 
All pro sports give some sort of award for having the best record during the regular season, but not Nascar.
Now we have two seasons in one year. The real season is over after race 26.


----------



## Rolls (Jan 1, 2010)

smalltime said:


> That's what the media wants you to think:
> 
> http://jalopnik.com/5274260/who-owns-the-new-gm
> 
> ...



GM did pay off the cash loans of $6.7B, which were in addition to the government buying a little over 60% GM equity. If you include the equity, the US Govt paid about $50B for the bailout. Breakeven probably a few years away. However, US Govt owns only about 40% now, post IPO.


----------



## fordcowboy (Dec 27, 1999)

I wish everyone would quit complaining about Nascar. It is what it is. When was the last time you watched a Nextel Cup race that it came down to a lap by lap championship decision? I for one enjoy Nascar for what it was and for what has become. For better or worse. I still root for my favorite driver & he didn't win the championship.
I'm undecided about the cup drivers crossing over to the Sprint & truck series. Because if some of the big names didn't race there, would they have much of an audience? I think the biggest problem about people not being in the stands is the overall economy. 
Looking forward to Daytona in February.
--Fordcowboy


----------



## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

as a very young person I can remember folks complaining about not enough emphasis on winning. it seems some that ran smart races and finished well without actually winning races were winning championships and that rubbed some folks the wrong way. there will always be those who don't care for the current format. I fall back on the serenity prayer...
grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
the courage to change the things I can and 
the WISDOM to know the difference.

I am an Earnhardt Jr fan although I don't remember why. I liked his old man, that was some fun racing, in his competitive days. alas, Jr cannot find his way to the front anymore and is already an also ran. but I am stubborn and will root for him until Danica gets his seat or his legacy, which ever comes first!


----------



## SplitPoster (May 16, 2006)

I love listening to the boosters, and certainly won't do anything to stir the 5 or 6 folks on here who are fans, but I will point out:

At Talladega this year there were a LOT of empty seats, that at a track that used to be completely full twice a year. Been there, seen that, don't tell me it ain't true. The local news outlets don't publicize attendence any more, while they certainly publicized attendence at the inaugural (pricey) Indy car race this spring at a track less than an hour distant. That one big pack of droning cars that isn't so popular. If you're a fan, what do you think they need to do about it? Now, before the season starts?

Of course NASCAR decides which manufacturers/brands can participate. And if you were a manufacturer pumping money in, you would want to keep your competitors off the track and the TV screen. It would be more interesting if they opened things up, even with 98% spec hardware, because at least some engine components maybe would be unique to different manufacturers. The carburetors are still a joke, but that is another story.
You can equivocate and make excuses about brands under the same corporate umbrella, but GM is so much less relevant to younger people (and most others) these days it isn't even comparable to 25 years ago - except for trucks. If you look at the top selling cars in 2009 and 2010, yes the Camry and Fusion are there and the Malibu shows up this year (the last boosted by fleet sales, especially the federal government), but the top 3 selling cars for any given period are usually the Honda Accord, the Camry, and Corolla with Altima's and Sonata's just as popular as anything else. Kia is the fastest growing brand. All those brands are what people relate to, not any "Big 3" that doesn't exist anymore, even with Toyota replacing Chrysler.

So, as far as new manufacturers participating, should NASCAR:
Allow it?
Encourage it?
Ban it?
Open it up for bidding and let the top 3 or 4 "factories" pay to play?

I mean, Americans build Hondas, Kias, Hyundais, Toyotas and many other "foreign" cars here, a fact that some people who live in other states far from the factories and jobs like to ignore, while the Fusion is assembled in Sonora Mexico. If I lived in Kansas I'd like the fact that they build GM cars there too, but brand names don't mean anything about who builds a car anymore.

So keeping the current format is not getting any more relevant or lucrative. So do you dabble with rules like they have done for several years, or do you shake things up for real?


----------



## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

Hey, thanks for the quotes. I would add to the things that I would like to see changed in NASCAR in addition to my original list:

- Modify the Chase points system so the Chase drivers are only competing for points against other Chase drivers.

- Give a much larger bonus for winning.

- Maximum 300 mile races.

- Make the cars run stock block engines that are available on showroom cars from each respective manufacturer.

I understand all sides of the arguments here. Change is hard and we all hate it, but sometimes it is inevitable. But those who have adapted to the change, like the #48 team and JJ are reaping the rewards. While I do not always agree with what NASCAR does I have come to accept that NASCAR is a business and a very big one at that. While I would like to see them change to adapt to my desires, they are the ones with the biggest stake in the outcome. On any given Sunday I can mow my grass, watch a little football, rack up some hot laps on my slot car track, read a book, or watch NASCAR on the TV. I have a lot of easy choices to make and worst case I lose a few hours of prime time recreational or relaxation opportunity. NASCAR on the other hand has to make choices that affect their survival. As GM has taught us, you are never too big or too popular to Fail (ignoring the Bailout). NASCAR feels the heat and they are reacting, sometimes in ways we like and sometimes in ways that we do not. We'll still complain about it, but come February we'll probably be in front of the TV once again eagerly waiting for the Clash and the Daytona 500.


----------



## 440s-4ever (Feb 23, 2010)

I'm not sure low fan turnout really indicates waning fan enthusiasm. Races are expensive to visit, and the nascar fan base is the sector of the economy hit hardest. Have you noticed the price of used harleys? Hand in hand phenom, their prices have been in freefall for 18 months. 

Me, I want them to add 5 races to the schedule. Then tell the teams they can pick any 5 races to skip. Make the 5 races wildcard events like new tracks, old tracks, street courses, or even a dirt track. Move em around.

While the Johnson/Knauss dynasty is something big in the sport's history.....already dread how the pundits are already using it to compare nascar to ball sports. Grrrr. It always seems so weak and desperate when they do that.


----------



## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

look for Hondas and BMWs in NASCAR soon. but, don't ask how I know!


----------



## A/FX Nut (May 28, 2004)

Pete McKay said:


> The numbers 3 and 43 retired by NASCAR. If Petty Enterprises does go under it would only be fitting to retire the most winning number in racing. Yeah, OK, arguably Richie Evans has won more NASCAR Championships than Richard Petty or anyone else, but we're talking Cup here. Retiring the #3 is just a matter of respect and in my opinion should have been done in 2002. Theresa Earnhardt can go sit and spin if she don't like it. QUOTE]
> 
> The number 3 is currently issued to Richard Childress Racing.
> 
> ...


----------



## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

what Randy said.


----------



## SplitPoster (May 16, 2006)

440s-4ever said:


> I'm not sure low fan turnout really indicates waning fan enthusiasm. Races are expensive to visit, and the nascar fan base is the sector of the economy hit hardest. Have you noticed the price of used harleys? Hand in hand phenom, their prices have been in freefall for 18 months.
> 
> .


First, I don't think you can compare the drop in value in Harleys that were bringing $20,000+ to a $100 sports ticket. 

Lots of people flipped Harleys like they (financed and) flipped collector cars and real estate. That bubble burst. One can argue that the Harley thing at its peak was a bit of a fad, which is true, but one can also see that once somebody has one or two, few of them get wrecked or worn out, and they don't need any more. Fancy chrome hawgs don't wear out quick enough. The many dealers that are darn near starving to death can sell new at bargain basement prices too, further driving down used costs. Different world. 

Secondly, people have a lot more choices and are choosier. Alabama increased its stadium capacity to 108,821 and every home game is sold out. The asking price for Penn State tickets was $500 up, each. A friend got 4 for $600 after the game started and thought he had a bargain. I would hate to think what Auburn/Alabama tickets are going for.

Fact: Paid attendence at the American Le Mans Series finale at Road Atlanta this past Sept 29-Oct 2 was 125,000. 4 day tickets were $75 without parking, but with full paddock access, even right behind the pit stands with computer monitors and telemetry going (through a fence of course). There was practice, qualifying and support series racing all day for 4 days, including night practice on Thursday, and a Trans Am race on Friday. There was a lot going on for the price of admission, and a lot of fans at the track for 8+ hours a day for several days (like me), not just for one feature event. And the variety of cars and techology was amazing, as good as can be seen anywhere in the world.

I can't find attendance numbers from Talladega this year. I'm sure they are somewhere. 

I like this commentary from Monte Dutton regarding the state of affairs in NASCAR now :

“When I first started covering races in 1993, I remember marveling when I was driving to a race that the rarest thing you’d ever see would be a Ford with a Dale Earnhardt sticker or a Chevy with a Bill Elliott sticker,” Monte said. “Well now they’re all Hondas. And I think that NASCAR is sort of insulting fans in trying to tell them the decal of a headlight is the difference between a Ford and a Chevy.”

Do you think Honda and BMW will build a carbureted, restrictor-plated pushrod V8 to go cup racing? Maybe the former, as a cup Accord would be faster than a street Accord? Would two shorter sprint races be more exciting than one 500 mile Sunday yawner? Well yes, of course they would, it's stupid to even pose that question rhetorically. Should they do it?


----------



## 440s-4ever (Feb 23, 2010)

Harleys and nascar weekends are primarily the toys of well paid blue collar workers. Yes, other demographics fall in there, but the core of those groups are the same people. Right now you about can't give away a dirt track race car. Price of car trailers, also down by upwards of 50%. Coincidences? Maybe. 

I'm biased as I watch the races in a pub full of harley riding, weekend stock car drivers. Guys that are selling bikes to make house payments and not racing cause one of the earners in the house has no work. They are definitely not firing up the RV for their annual 2-3 nascar weekends per summer. From what I see and hear, things are tough all over, it's not a local phenomenon. Just don't think you can measure fan enthusiasm by attendance at this moment in time. 

The ALMS ticket is a much better value than nascar, without a doubt.


----------



## LeeRoy98 (Jul 8, 2005)

440s-4ever said:


> Harleys and nascar weekends are primarily the toys of well paid blue collar workers. Yes, other demographics fall in there, but the core of those groups are the same people. Right now you about can't give away a dirt track race car. Price of car trailers, also down by upwards of 50%. Coincidences? Maybe.
> 
> I'm biased as I watch the races in a pub full of harley riding, weekend stock car drivers. Guys that are selling bikes to make house payments and not racing cause one of the earners in the house has no work. They are definitely not firing up the RV for their annual 2-3 nascar weekends per summer. From what I see and hear, things are tough all over, it's not a local phenomenon. Just don't think you can measure fan enthusiasm by attendance at this moment in time.
> 
> The ALMS ticket is a much better value than nascar, without a doubt.


I would agree... plus how many posts have there been on this message board from slot car addicts having to sell their prized possesions to meet bills. I would offer that has increased a lot over the last few years.
It has always seemed to me that the majority of NASCAR fans are the blue collar workers, much more so than other forms of racing, and are feeling the effects of the economy much more. 

Gary
AKA LeeRoy98
www.marioncountyraceway.com


----------



## hefer (Sep 18, 1999)

I would like to see points for winning a poll or get rid of it all together. Just pull numbers out of a hat. More points for the winner of the race. No cup drivers in other races and set up a seniors series on the short tracks. They do it for golf.


----------



## pool207 (May 24, 2009)

My lack of interest in NASCAR has a lot to do with the length of the races. When a NASCAR driver admits they don't really race that hard until the final segment of the race (see SI magazine), why should I bother watching?


----------



## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

More great reading on raceday...


----------

