# Note to Tom Lowe, Re: the new Enterprise



## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

This is just my opinion, of course, but if y'all are planning a model of the new ST:XI Enterprise, I'd suggestion only making a 1/1000 kit. Please don't waste time and plastic making a 1/350 version like you did with that horrid NX-01 (which is still sitting on the shelves at my LHS). And especially please don't put off making a 1/350 original TOS E (probably the most-desired and most-asked-for Trek kit around the net) because of this new monstrosity.

I'm sure some people will want a model of this tragic offspring of Hollywood's need to screw with everything under the sun, and a 1/1000 should satisfy them, come to that. But please don't create more space-consuming big boxes that will languish on shop shelves next to the NXs, Scorpions and Kazon torpedos.

I'm just sayin'.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

So say we all! :thumbsup:

(Well, most of us, anyway!)


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## Nova Designs (Oct 10, 2000)

Hear hear!!!!


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## Lou Dalmaso (Jul 13, 2004)

Speak for your self John,

Geeze, for somebody who has come up with some wonderful non-canon designs, you are sure quick to "bash" (pun intended) other people's interpretations.


You don't like it, we get that. move along and stop trying to rain on our parades. Go pull the wings of a butterfly or somethin'


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## Opus Penguin (Apr 19, 2004)

I may not want a 1/350 size version but only because of space not the design. I don't mind the design. I am hoping they come out with a 1/1000 scale version of thsi ship but would also like to see something a little larger.


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## Jodet (May 25, 2008)

My vote is for no 1/350 kits. They are too damn big to display properly, unless you live in a museum.


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## rossjr (Jun 25, 2001)

Can't you guys stop fighting??? I am having trouble concentrating on my Scorpion kit...

You know they other thing to think about is, depending on how well the movie does or doesn't do, they will likely target the 10-25 year olds instead of the 40+ Year old TOS fans...


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## BlackbirdCD (Oct 31, 2003)

Some of us really don't hate this design, and may want a 1/350 version. I'm sure that Polar Lights/AMT will be perfectly capable of making their own decision here.


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## Nova Designs (Oct 10, 2000)

Lou... apples and oranges my friend. John isn't trying to remake the original and sell it to anyone. He's making his own designs that are extension of the master plan. AND it doesn't matter if anyone else likes it because they are only for HIM.

We're talking about the "replacement" of the most iconic space vehicle of all time.

If you like the new design, good for you. Why is it only the people who like it that can say what they want? I say let fly with the outrage. Let fly and let Paraborg hear loud and clear that we're pissed that they are taking a huge DUMP on the franchise that we've loved for so long.


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## Lou Dalmaso (Jul 13, 2004)

Nova,
You are correct. My apologies.

I should have directed my objections in part to the good professer for his "so say we ALL" remark. 

would you believe "so say you two? or three?"

the bottom line is, I hope it's a good movie, but I'm not going to rend my garments and gnash my teeth based on a single picture.

I don't think this design is going to "sink" the movie any more than the wonderful design of the 1701-A "saved" TreK 5.


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## Atemylunch (Jan 16, 2006)

rossjr said:


> Can't you guys stop fighting??? I am having trouble concentrating on my Scorpion kit...
> 
> You know they other thing to think about is, depending on how well the movie does or doesn't do, they will likely target the 10-25 year olds instead of the 40+ Year old TOS fans...


Not the best business decision, since to 10-25 year olds don't have the money. And if they do they have far better things to do than modeling. 

Besides how many kids do you see hanging around hobby shops?

A small one is still an effort, but that would be a smarter move. Since people are really hating the new design. 

I'm sure Mr. Lowe has a plan, but capitol right now could be tight. So who knows what is going to come out, or if anything else will.


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## Edge (Sep 5, 2003)

Surprise, surprise, I agree with John P.!


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## jbond (Aug 29, 2002)

There's no such thing as bad publicity...

Remember when Trekkies were protesting the Wrath of Khan because they killed Spock? The fact is, no matter what this ship looked like, and especially if it was an exact reproduction of the original 1966 design, at least 50% of the people here would hate it. It's everyone's right to complain or praise but the movie is done so apart from grossly affecting the opening weekend box office (which I can pretty much guarantee will be completely unaffected by what the design of the Enterprise is), all the screaming isn't going to change one thing. I also doubt that Tom Lowe is going to read the 12 responses to this thread and say "Golly, I better not produce a model of the new Enterprise!" Even on the longer threads I'm seeing the reaction is about 50/50 with a lot of people saying their initial reaction was negative but they'd probably get used to it.

The movie--and any potential models--won't be out until May of next year. By then even the most outraged fanboys will have gotten used to the new Enterprise--or they can join the protest line of 20 people who mobbed Paramount demanding a "Captain Sulu" TV show...


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## Raist3001 (Oct 23, 2003)

Speak for yourself is right. I would like to see this in a 1:350 size. I like the new design. And I liked the NX-01.


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## OneAM (Jul 9, 2008)

The only objection to a 1/350 model I have is from a business standpoint. What with the reactions of a large portion of the (active) modeling community I wonder whether or not producing one would be a wise financial move.


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## Dr. Brad (Oct 5, 1999)

Well, I'm getting rid of all my 1/350 refits, not because I don't like the kit, but because of display space, so based on that alone I know I wouldn't buy a 1/350 kit of this Enterprise...


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## Steve Mavronis (Oct 14, 2001)

But if you would have one 1/350 kit on display, wouldn't it be of the original TOS Enterprise?


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## sbaxter (Jan 8, 2002)

Steve Mavronis said:


> But if you would have one 1/350 kit on display, wouldn't it be of the original TOS Enterprise?


Nope. I'd have the refit. While I'd probably buy and eventually build a 1/350th TOS version, I don't think the subject has detail that requires it to be _that_ large. The paint job on the refit makes it a different story. It would be a challenge to duplicate that paint scheme even on the original studio model.

Qapla'

SSB


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## JeffG (May 10, 2004)

Raist3001 said:


> Speak for yourself is right. I would like to see this in a 1:350 size. I like the new design. And I liked the NX-01.


Aye! You know, the really sad part of all this is we live in different times. Even if the film turns out to be spectacular, it'll still be toppled off the number one spot in a week or two by some stupid Adam Sandler movie or some Pixar-ish animated film.


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## Lou Dalmaso (Jul 13, 2004)

Jeff,
Pixar is an excellent example of story over style.

there were a ton of toys based on the "cars" movie that never sold and are still clogging up store shelves because the story was a weak retread of "Doc Hollywood" (sorry about the retread pun) and the characters were not engaging.

Now there's a shortage of "Wall-E" toys because retailers felt that they got screwed over on Cars and didn't want to take that chance again.

Same thing happened with Trek. TMP had a bunch of toys that didn't sell and the film didn't take off as expected. So much that when Kahn was released, there wasn't a reliant kit or toys ready to go when that film was at it's peak.


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## sbaxter (Jan 8, 2002)

Lou Dalmaso said:


> there were a ton of toys based on the "cars" movie that never sold and are still clogging up store shelves


Not so. When you factor in the revenue from merchandising, _Cars_ is one of Pixar's most lucrative movies to date. You should look more closely -- those aren't the same toys (for the most part) in stores today that were there a year ago. Many of them are expansions of the line. The success of the merchandising probably plays a role in the studio deciding to green-light (there's a pun I didn't plan) a sequel to the movie.

_Wall-E_ toys have been fairly scarce until now (even Walt Disney World hasn't had much since the movie opened), but I'm starting to see them show up in much greater numbers in Toys R Us and such places.

Qapla'

SSB


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## Steve Mavronis (Oct 14, 2001)

While the 1/1000 TOS kit is nice, it is too small. I feel like I should be playing a board game with it.


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## Larva (Jun 8, 2005)

Seems like in the last few years toy licenses are more closely tied to the DVD release of a film, rather than part of the big screen premiere. You know: go to Costco, bring home the DVD and the toy that goes with it. Perfect for the holidays.


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

The way I look at it is, if you want something that much you'll find the space for it (and the 1/350 models are still excellent value for money). The bigger the model the more detail you can cram in. You wouldn't for instance get tiny windows in clear plastic on a 1/1000 Enterprise or Klingon ship like there is on the 1/350 refit. That said, I don't really care whether we get this new Enterprise in model form anyway at the moment. I'd rather the K'Tinga be done first as I think most of the people who'll buy these model kits will be us older fans who've wanted the original Enterprise or Movie Klingon battlecruiser for many years.


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## derric1968 (Jun 13, 2003)

*Yes and no...*

John, I respect the heck out of you. Your model building skills are top rate and your Trek kits are fantastic. One of the reasons I lurk around this board is in anticipation of seeing what you come up with next. But I can only agree with you partially on this one.

I'm behind the idea of a new Enterprise kit in 1/1000 scale, but then I want all of the Trek kits in 1/1000 scale (it's just my preferred scale).

Where I disagree with you is in the design itself. I happen to like it. It's different, it's interesting, and hey, there's no shortage of TOS Enterprise kits around. I own a few myself, and it's not like all our TOS Enterprise kits are going to suddenly disappear on the day the new movie is released!

Oh, and I'm going to want a 1/1000 Kelvin to display next to my new Enterprise.


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## PhilipMarlowe (Jan 23, 2004)

Lou Dalmaso said:


> Jeff,
> Pixar is an excellent example of story over style.
> 
> there were a ton of toys based on the "cars" movie that never sold and are still clogging up store shelves because the story was a weak retread of "Doc Hollywood" (sorry about the retread pun) and the characters were not engaging.
> ...


As the father of a five and seven year old boys, Lou, you couldn't be more wrong about Cars. They come out with new ones every few months _still_.

Now excuse me, I have to go scour Walmart & Target for a "Marko the Jet Plane" who appeared in the film for at least 4-5 seconds.


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

I hope the 1/350 K'Tinga and OS Enterprise aren't delayed in favour of this new Enterprise too. Again, I think older fans are the main kit buyers now so would a kit of the new Enterprise be successful anyway?


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## Krako (Jun 6, 2003)

It would be cool if a model kit of the new Enterprise could get kids into building model kits...

...just like the 18" AMT Enterprise did for me...


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## falcon49xxxx (Aug 4, 2008)

There is no one "God" of Star Trek,we all have an opinion,and they all have equal value.


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## TGel63 (Mar 26, 2004)

I'm of the same opinion as John. I refuse to support something I do not like by buying a kit of it.


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## Lloyd Collins (Sep 25, 2004)

I agree with John.

Besides, a 1/1000 would go good with the other releases. How about a 1/2500 scale,too!


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

Krako said:


> It would be cool if a model kit of the new Enterprise could get kids into building model kits...
> 
> ...just like the 18" AMT Enterprise did for me...




There's no doubt that kids need to be brought back into making model kits but it could be risky for PL if it doesn't pay off, whereas the 1/350 K'Tinga and OS Enterprise have been top of Trek wants lists for years. Maybe a smaller but still detailed snap kit could work. 1/650 maybe?


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## Jim NCC1701A (Nov 6, 2000)

Lou Dalmaso said:


> I don't think this design is going to "sink" the movie any more than the wonderful design of the 1701-A "saved" TreK 5.


Hey, I _liked_ TFF  (Sorry Lou).
Sure, the effects weren't the best (shoulda stuck with ILM, IMNSHO) and maybe the story woulda been better if they'd let Shatner have little gargoyles running around instead of a rock creature (which *Galaxy Quest* ripped off, BTW) but it wasn't an absolute stinker of a movie.

Just my two NZ cents, which works out to three point six US cents...


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## jbond (Aug 29, 2002)

I don't know how people can worry about the K'Tinga and 1/350 TOS ship being delayed when they haven't even been announced yet. Other than the occasional rumor there is no solid news that these ideas will ever be made in kit form. I'd love it if they were but it's a little early to worry about them being "delayed."

My guess is if a kit is done of the new Enterprise it will be 1/1000 or in the 1/500 range. Even Trek films are still gambles for modeling companies; a TV series is a much better bet. If the first movie is a success we might see a larger Enterprise kit released to tie in with the sequel--which Paramount execs already believe will make more money than the first Abrams Trek film.


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## Lou Dalmaso (Jul 13, 2004)

C'mon, the fact that you still see racks of Cars toys on the shelves is not due to the popularity of the franchise but to the fact that that hey could'nt get rid of them all by now. 

It's Pixar repeating itself. Remember that there were no Toy Story Buzz Lightyear toys on the shelves in time for the movie, but a glut of them later.


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## Griffworks (Jun 24, 2002)

OT, but the other fellas are right, Lou. I doubt that the Cars toys you see on the shelves right now were there even three months ago, most likely, let alone a year ago. They've re-released a few of the originals in new packaging - and done more than a few re-paints - , sure, but the stuff on the shelves now is new.

Oh, and I didn't think it was such a bad movie, either. 

Same with ST:V, tho, so take it for what it's worth.


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## PhilipMarlowe (Jan 23, 2004)

Griffworks said:


> OT, but the other fellas are right, Lou. I doubt that the Cars toys you see on the shelves right now were there even three months ago, most likely, let alone a year ago. They've re-released a few of the originals in new packaging - and done more than a few re-paints - , sure, but the stuff on the shelves now is new.



That's how they get you.


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## Opus Penguin (Apr 19, 2004)

I would love to see the new design in 1/350 scale but would hesitate to get it only due to not having the space for it. Otherwise I would love to get it in this scale. I also want the 1/350 scale TOS E and lean toward getting it because it is what I grew up with. But I like this design.


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## AJ-1701 (May 10, 2008)

As I have said I like the new look.:thumbsup:

I like the idea of a 1/350 size but it's just a bit too big. My wife is still coming to terms with how big the refit I will be soon (I hope) starting is!! So a 1/650 or 1/1000 would be sweet. But I guess it's pretty much up to Tom, the board, Paramount heads and the bean counters to make the call. 

Maybe I'm not so old as to have lost all my flexability... It has all the elements of the basic design done back in the early 1960's just redone with 2008 visualizations, technology and styles to be a retro look for something that will be 200 plus years away... Now to put on the flame proof suit...

Just my aussies 5 cents worth (cause we don't use 2 or 1 cent pices any more)


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## GUS (Jun 29, 2006)

I was really let down when i clicked on the article showing the new enterprise
and the 1st thing that popped in my head is

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger2/1251/4405/1600/homer_dreamcar.gif


It looks like this is what happened after someone said "hey it needs more of
this and less of that"

When it shoots photon torpedoes does it make a sound like the
"La cucaracha, la cucaracha dat dat dat dot"

my 2cents
:freak:


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## ClubTepes (Jul 31, 2002)

John P said:


> This is just my opinion, of course, but if y'all are planning a model of the new ST:XI Enterprise, I'd suggestion only making a 1/1000 kit. Please don't waste time and plastic making a 1/350 version like you did with that horrid NX-01 (which is still sitting on the shelves at my LHS). And especially please don't put off making a 1/350 original TOS E (probably the most-desired and most-asked-for Trek kit around the net) because of this new monstrosity.
> 
> I'm sure some people will want a model of this tragic offspring of Hollywood's need to screw with everything under the sun, and a 1/1000 should satisfy them, come to that. But please don't create more space-consuming big boxes that will languish on shop shelves next to the NXs, Scorpions and Kazon torpedos.
> 
> I'm just sayin'.


Big question is John, Have you printed this up and mailed it in to Tom directly?

Only posting here is a waste of time and just gives everyone a chance to b***h.


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## JeffG (May 10, 2004)

Odds are that once this new film comes out and people begin warming up to the design, I'm pretty sure folks will want an Enterprise with a hangar deck and lights inside. A challenge enough in 1/350th, and unless you have access to equipment from CMDF (Fantastic Voyage shrinking machine), really hard to do in 1/1000 scale.

I'd say make it as big as they can and if you want it smaller...display it farther away!


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

jbond said:


> I don't know how people can worry about the K'Tinga and 1/350 TOS ship being delayed when they haven't even been announced yet. Other than the occasional rumor there is no solid news that these ideas will ever be made in kit form. I'd love it if they were but it's a little early to worry about them being "delayed."
> 
> My guess is if a kit is done of the new Enterprise it will be 1/1000 or in the 1/500 range. Even Trek films are still gambles for modeling companies; a TV series is a much better bet. If the first movie is a success we might see a larger Enterprise kit released to tie in with the sequel--which Paramount execs already believe will make more money than the first Abrams Trek film.




I thought I read that the OS Enterprise is supposed to be coming out in 2010?


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## Model Man (Oct 1, 2007)

I'm not buying this new model regardless of the movie success/failure. The design is anachronistic and doesn't belong in the 2260's we know. 

A 350 of this design released, or a moment of time wasted on it, before the TOS, KTinga or even the rumored Reliant 350 releases, I would go madape. 

Please, Mr. Lowe, *DO NOT* bump this design ahead of what we have (inherently) been waiting (decades) for.


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## Zombie_61 (Apr 21, 2004)

rossjr said:


> You know they other thing to think about is, depending on how well the movie does or doesn't do, they will likely target the 10-25 year olds instead of the 40+ Year old TOS fans...





Atemylunch said:


> Not the best business decision, since to 10-25 year olds don't have the money. And if they do they have far better things to do than modeling.
> 
> Besides how many kids do you see hanging around hobby shops?


I have to agree with Atemylunch here. I can't recall the last time I saw a customer in a hobby shop that was under the age of 30 who hadn't been dragged there by his father (whether or not they actually _have_ better things to do is open to debate). Toys and action figures will surely be marketed to the 10-25 year olds, but the majority of model kits (regardless of genre) are for those of us who remember a time before the internet, cell phones, and MP3 players.

As for the great scale debate, I don't need or want a three-foot model of _anything_. If a kit of this Enterprise should materialize, I'd be in favor of 1/1000 scale.


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## Atemylunch (Jan 16, 2006)

Zombie_61 said:


> I have to agree with Atemylunch here. I can't recall the last time I saw a customer in a hobby shop that was under the age of 30 who hadn't been dragged there by his father (whether or not they actually _have_ better things to do is open to debate). Toys and action figures will surely be marketed to the 10-25 year olds, but the majority of model kits (regardless of genre) are for those of us who remember a time before the internet, cell phones, and MP3 players.


Better in their minds at least, what that is, I have no idea.:jest::jest:
What I find interesting is how this whole thing has lit up the boards. 
It would be funny if they change the design, and the old one is already in production.


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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

Indications are that this monstrosity is considerably larger than the original design, so a 1/350 of that thing would be closer to _four_ feet long, maybe a little longer.

Better to do a 1/350 Excelsior.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Lou Dalmaso said:


> Speak for your self John,
> 
> Geeze, for somebody who has come up with some wonderful non-canon designs, you are sure quick to "bash" (pun intended) other people's interpretations.
> 
> ...


What part of "in my opinion" didn't you understand, pal?


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

OneAM said:


> The only objection to a 1/350 model I have is from a business standpoint. What with the reactions of a large portion of the (active) modeling community I wonder whether or not producing one would be a wise financial move.


Yes, that's part of the point I was making.

Almost EVERY Trek modeler will want the original in 1/350. They'll easily sell as many, or more, than the big refit kit.

Only about half seem to like the new ship, and not all of them will want a big kit of it, hence my suggestion Tom only make a kit in the 1/1000 line.


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## Dave Hussey (Nov 20, 1998)

Steve Mavronis posted a very interesting picture at post #237 here:

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=234890&page=16

Have others here seen that? Is it a fair representation of the new ship? As for me, well, if that is the new Enterprise, then I have to say that I quite like it. And I think most folks going to see the movie will also.

Huzz


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Dave Hussey said:


> Steve Mavronis posted a very interesting picture at post #237 here:
> 
> http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=234890&page=16
> 
> ...


Look in post #1 of that thread and you'll see an actual still of the actual ship from the actual film. The pic you link to is a guestimate of a side view from ex-astris-scientia.org.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Folks, all I'm basically saying here is I'm tired of waiting for PL to do the 1/350 TOS E they _should _have done years ago before they even bothered with a 1/350 NX-01. I'm not getting any younger or healthier here, and I'd at least like to have my dream model in my hands before I croak. I don't want another year of my life to go by seeing yet another Enterprise I _don't_ like get preferential release over the one I and, well, _everybody _wants.


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## Lou Dalmaso (Jul 13, 2004)

John,
My apologies..Of course I support your right to express your opinion. 

I just got my blood up over your call not to "waste time" making any kit just because you don't like the design.

Remember what happened with the Lost in Space movie? Not only were there kits made of the new designs, but a whole flood of toys and stuff from the original series were in the stores because of it.

Yes, I think we can all agree that a 350 scale TOS Enterprise would be great. But in _addition_ to the kits from the new film, or _in spite of _kits from the new film (if you insist), but not at the _expense_ of kits from the new film


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## Dave Hussey (Nov 20, 1998)

John P said:


> Folks, all I'm basically saying here is I'm tired of waiting for PL to do the 1/350 TOS E they _should _have done years ago before they even bothered with a 1/350 NX-01. I'm not getting any younger or healthier here, and I'd at least like to have my dream model in my hands before I croak. I don't want another year of my life to go by seeing yet another Enterprise I _don't_ like get preferential release over the one I and, well, _everybody _wants.


John, I'm sure we all hope that you are here for many years to come! I'd love to see a 1/350 TOS E as well. 

Thanks for some background on that picture I was talking about. If that guesstimate proves to be acurate, would it be so bad? I think its a fine looking ship.

Huzz


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## LGFugate (Sep 11, 2000)

Just a quick note about the Lost in Space toys - the toys of the Robot and the Jupiter 2 from the movie sold poorly. The toys of the original Lost in Space series sold out quickly and are now getting top $ on places like eBay. The movie stuff is still readily available not expensive at all.

Larry


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## Opus Penguin (Apr 19, 2004)

That's what bites. I think TOS LIS toys should be brought back. My daughter wants a Trendmasters J2 very badly since she is a big fan of the show, but I can't afford it now. I have one I plan to give her but when she is older and I know she will take care of it.


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## hubert (May 3, 2008)

John P said:


> Folks, all I'm basically saying here is I'm tired of waiting for PL to do the 1/350 TOS E they _should _have done years ago before they even bothered with a 1/350 NX-01. I'm not getting any younger or healthier here, and I'd at least like to have my dream model in my hands before I croak. I don't want another year of my life to go by seeing yet another Enterprise I _don't_ like get preferential release over the one I and, well, _everybody _wants.


John, quit your 'whining'. If paramount wanted to milk a license for TOS E, they would have already. Repeat after me ... "what we watched before never happened". If you want to dream, hit the lathe. 

Instead, won't you just accept their 'revisionist history' version that will surely be a hit with the masses? Just think of the Happy Meal tie-ins...


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## Steve Mavronis (Oct 14, 2001)

Dave Hussey said:


> Steve Mavronis posted a very interesting picture at post #237 here. Have others here seen that? Is it a fair representation of the new ship? As for me, well, if that is the new Enterprise, then I have to say that I quite like it. And I think most folks going to see the movie will also.


I'll re-link the illustration here for conversation purposes:










I realize it's just a schematic interpretation but I like it better than the photo version too.


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## Lou Dalmaso (Jul 13, 2004)

LGFugate said:


> Just a quick note about the Lost in Space toys - the toys of the Robot and the Jupiter 2 from the movie sold poorly. The toys of the original Lost in Space series sold out quickly and are now getting top $ on places like eBay. The movie stuff is still readily available not expensive at all.
> 
> Larry


well, that's the point, isn't it?

if the new stuff doesn't sell, that's a more accurate measure of its' popularity than any amount of comments on a hobby board. 

If the new stuff outsells the old stuff, then thats a validation of the new designs. and the the next movie will have the same designs.

If they both sell, then they know the franchise as a whole is still strong. and will probably keep the same designs, but might be open to more classic influances.

If the old stuff outsells the new, then they know that the older designs are still preferred and that will impact designs when it comes time for any sequels


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## Flux Chiller (May 2, 2005)

This new Enterprise looks really bizarre. Perhaps this is quite good since this is a non-canon reimaging. I suspect a few people will be wishing the Gab Koerner design was chosen, others will still be keen for the Enterprise to look exactly like it did in the original series. Sadly that is not going to that happen as this film is aimed at a new audience, not us Trek fanboys out here. At least we should have a new shape model to discover with the old airbrush.

Question, if we really wanted to have a TOS tribute movie made, should we ask the mighty Obama to lobby for us?


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## Steve Mavronis (Oct 14, 2001)

We just have to bite the bullet and accept this movie is BSG gone Trek, in the way that series was re-imagined. The original Galactica holds the same revered status as the TOS Enterprise does to us. I really like the new Galactica too. But once we get over the concept this is Trek with a new vision, if the movie is a success, then we will come to like the new ship version too. I really didn't like TMP Enterprise that much at first because of the engines. But now I think its a classic design.

By the way check out the new trekmovie.com story with revealing Kelvin images on the special Intel site where they link to with 2 new Kelvin wallpapers and more! Look in the database section (screen on the right) where you can see trailers and downloads like the wallpapers in various resolutions. The overhead secondary hull looks very much like the TOS one with nice detail. And look closely at the bridge, it has windows instead of the old interior only viewscreen. The lower engine nacelle is different than on the new Enterprise and more TOS looking too!


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## REL (Sep 30, 2005)

Isn't this new ship like Excelsior size? That would make a 1/350 offering like 4 feet long, so 1/1000 would be more in line, like about PL refit size.


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## X15-A2 (Jan 21, 2004)

Hi Steve, I disagree. 

There is no comparison between TOS Trek and TOS Galactica. Trek was (and still is!) a world-wide phenomena while TOS Galactica was so shallow that it would still be invisible in a two-dimensional universe. The new Galactica works because there was so much room for serious improvement in the original series but the premise was sound. With Trek we have a show that had a sound premise and was well executed which went on to be dearly loved by people, on a world-wide scale. Perhaps more so than any other TV show ever made, before or since. There have been reasonable suggestions for changes to future TOS efforts but these involve minor details. The basics are sound. There has been zero demand for a "reboot" (which begs the question, why is Paramount so convinced that the show needs one?). Yet, in spite of this total lack of demand from the audience, every single new production in the franchise has been a "reboot". Sure, they kept the original names where appropriate but everything else has been changed. So now we get yet another in a long series of "reboots" and they have the nerve to tell us that this is "new"! This isn't "new", it is just more of the same unasked for meddling with something that people are perfectly happy with. This brings to mind the definition of "insanity"; doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Paramount keeps "reimaging" the show and is still unable to grasp why the money just doesn't roll in, considering how loved the original show was. My point is that every new installment has been Trek with a "new vision" and not one of them, not a single one, has come anywhere close to achieving the level of impact or sense of deep connection with the audience that TOS achieved. So why change it?

Naturally, if you're working in the Paramount "new projects" department, your first thought is, "everyone loves this Trek show, we have to tap into that market by making new products and we can change everything about it because we need a "new" audience". The old "world-wide" audience is just not big enough...

I call that "stupidity".

Don't get me wrong here, the past "new" efforts have made money, its just that they might have made ten-times that amount. All they have to do is stop meddling with it.


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## Griffworks (Jun 24, 2002)

From all I've seen thus far, this new ship is pretty much the same size as the original _Enterprise_ and Refit. At least, going by the sizes of the windows.


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## REL (Sep 30, 2005)

Griffworks said:


> From all I've seen thus far, this new ship is pretty much the same size as the original _Enterprise_ and Refit. At least, going by the sizes of the windows.


Oh ok, I wasn't sure. I thought I read somewhere that it's twice the size of the original.


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## Griffworks (Jun 24, 2002)

Wow... Can't think of a reason for _that_ change either, if so. I mean, Back In The Day, _Enterprise_ was plenty big enough, most impressive! Then came the E-B, E-C, E-D... Just kept gettin' bigger. And now they're making this one even bigger than the original? 

OK... Startin' to really sound like change just for the sake of change. :freak:


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## Steve Mavronis (Oct 14, 2001)

Hi X15-A2,

About BSG vs ST, I agree the original BSG was shallow story wise. But I mainly got into it at the time for the special effects and models. BTW, I still like the original Viper more than the new BSG ones. Remember this was post Star Wars in the late 70's and the one of same special effects guys worked on BSG too. So I was just comparing the ship design versions from a visual re-imagining aspect to each other more than the shows themselves as a whole.

I agree if JJ's motivation is to find a "new" Trek replacement audience, that is pretty stupid and a big mistake to regard all the old school fans as if we were now a Captain Dunsel - something not needed any more. I would hope he really would want to expand the existing Trek audience even wider to include both the old dedicated fans and newer fans too. If all else if lost there is always the amateur fan-created pure TOS Trek projects to still enjoy.

About the new Enterprise size, I take it from the looks and spacing of the rim windows that the saucer is the same size as TMP Enterprise's. So I think it is probably comparable in scale and length to the size of TMP model based on that alone. Maybe JJ's rationale is the 1701-A refit upgrade changed out everything except the saucer plus a new bridge?


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## hubert (May 3, 2008)

X15-A2 said:


> The new Galactica works because there was so much room for serious improvement in the original series but the premise was sound. With Trek we have a show that had a sound premise and was well executed which went on to be dearly loved by people, on a world-wide scale. Perhaps more so than any other TV show ever made, before or since. There have been reasonable suggestions for changes to future TOS efforts but these involve minor details. The basics are sound. There has been zero demand for a "reboot" (which begs the question, why is Paramount so convinced that the show needs one?).


Right On.



X15-A2 said:


> Yet, in spite of this total lack of demand from the audience, every single new production in the franchise has been a "reboot". Sure, they kept the original names where appropriate but everything else has been changed. So now we get yet another in a long series of "reboots" and they have the nerve to tell us that this is "new"! This isn't "new", it is just more of the same unasked for meddling with something that people are perfectly happy with. This brings to mind the definition of "insanity"; doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.


I've got a man-crush going...



X15-A2 said:


> I call that "stupidity".


Please drive over to Paramount for us and thump them (and JJ while you are at it).



X15-A2 said:


> Don't get me wrong here, the past "new" efforts have made money, its just that they might have made ten-times that amount. All they have to do is stop meddling with it.


We are in the minority. So many feel it is acceptable to continue to change (for the sake of change) this 'vehicle' (and I don't mean Starship). Guess we will have to take our toys home and play. Someday, someone will do something that does TOS series justice. I just don't think this is it.

Bring on the Bling...


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## Raist3001 (Oct 23, 2003)

REL said:


> Isn't this new ship like Excelsior size? That would make a 1/350 offering like 4 feet long, so 1/1000 would be more in line, like about PL refit size.


I think what folks who say they want a 1:350 mean is that they want a ship the size of the PL refit what ever that may translate into with a new kit.


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## Tiberious (Nov 20, 2001)

Agreed, Raist. 

I wouldn't personally drop the money or the space in a huge version of this ship. But I would get a 1:350 Enterprise scaled/sized version of it. It's not THAT bad 

Tib


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## Prowler901 (Jun 27, 2005)

I wasn't thrilled with the new design when I first saw it. But, it is growing on me. And, I'm trying to keep an open mind, and I'll wait to see her in motion on the big screen. I would buy a large scale model of this version for sure.

However, I must agree with John's original point. We've all been waiting forever for a 1/350th scale TOS Enterprise. I don't want this new version to take precedence over our beloved original. I hope that efforts will be focused on making the original kit first.

Todd


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## Steve Mavronis (Oct 14, 2001)

Prowler901 said:


> I must agree with John's original point. We've all been waiting forever for a 1/350th scale TOS Enterprise. I don't want this new version to take precedence over our beloved original. I hope that efforts will be focused on making the original kit first.


I agree with that. I hope they either put out both kits at the same time or the original TOS kit first. I'm afriad if they put out the new movie model first and it doesn't sell well, then they might mistakenly think its not profitable making the original TOS kit too.


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## JGG1701 (Nov 9, 2004)

Steve Mavronis said:


> I'm afriad if they put out the new movie model first and it doesn't sell well, then they might mistakenly think its not profitable making the original TOS kit too.


Scary but may be true.:freak:


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

^^So say we all!


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## Opus Penguin (Apr 19, 2004)

Steve Mavronis said:


> I agree with that. I hope they either put out both kits at the same time or the original TOS kit first. I'm afriad if they put out the new movie model first and it doesn't sell well, then they might mistakenly think its not profitable making the original TOS kit too.


I agree with this too. I would still rather see TOS E in 1/350 scale before anything else (then maybe next a 1/350 K'Tinga). I like the design of the new movie E but would prefer TOS E in 1/350 if I had to choose.


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

If there's a chance that PL are going to do both the OS Enterprise and K'Tinga in 1/350 (and obviously we still don't know if they are) then I wish they'd put them on fastrack so we don't have to wait for years.


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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

We already know they're working on a 1/350 TOS Enterprise; they're just not far enough along to make a firm announcement.

The fact that there has been no announcement from _anyone_, either a model company or Paramount, regarding a model in any scale tells me that nobody is in any hurry to jump on this bandwagon.

Most likely waiting until it's determined whether this thing is gonna be a hit or the biggest flop since "Heaven's Gate" came close to killing off Columbia Studios.


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## Steve Mavronis (Oct 14, 2001)

What do you think about surface detail for the 1/350 TOS E? Do you think it should mirror exactly what is on the studio model. I think the panel lines were drawn on in pencil on the real thing. At least I know the top saucer deflector grid pattern was done that way.

And what about the mounting attachment for a stand?

I think the engine nacelle pylons should slide into long slots on the secondary hull just like the original, for perfect alignment.

Also, it would be nice if it included window holes for lighting! But that would probably be hard because of the molding process unless they also put out a special clear molded kit and you could tape over the windows and port holes.


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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

I'd definitely avoid the pylon setup from the '66 version. I can only imagine what the added weight of the engines would do under those circumstances.


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## Antimatter (Feb 16, 2008)

PL had a good idea on the small TOS version. The seam was a bear to get rid of though.


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## Steve Mavronis (Oct 14, 2001)

Yeah I was trying to avoid any seams with the slot idea. It could be done better than the '66 ATM version. It worked on the 11 footer though! Here is a pic I had on my hard drive from the IDIC page showing what I mean:










By the way is IDIC online anymore? It says AOL Hometown was shutdown


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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

AOL shut down all the user homepages. Now I need to find a new home for all my stuff.

I hope Mr. McCullars got all his stuff off before they pulled the plug. A lot of valuable pics on that site, may it rest in peace.


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## JeffG (May 10, 2004)

Steve Mavronis said:


> I think the engine nacelle pylons should slide into long slots on the secondary hull just like the original, for perfect alignment.
> 
> Also, it would be nice if it included window holes for lighting! But that would probably be hard because of the molding process unless they also put out a special clear molded kit and you could tape over the windows and port holes.


I like your ideas here. If they made it in 350th, maybe making it with the windows pre cut wouldn't be that big of a deal. I like the pylon to engineering hull idea too for perfect alignment. The only killer in that approach is just hoping it won't be an area where the plastic itself is prone to warping (no pun intended). Hopefully that wouldn't interfere with the shuttlebay though-which would be really sweet with a small Galileo just waiting to launch! Of course, the pylons would also have to have the appropriate inside clearance for Voodoo FXs' or JAI's lighting kits (hint, hint).

BTW, what are the illuminated squares on the top surface of the primary hull supposed to be? Don't think I ever found that out.


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## Steve Mavronis (Oct 14, 2001)

JeffG said:


> I like the pylon to engineering hull idea too for perfect alignment. Hopefully that wouldn't interfere with the shuttlebay though...


I always thought in my mind that the shuttle hangar ended at the back of the pylons.



JeffG said:


> BTW, what are the illuminated squares on the top surface of the primary hull supposed to be? Don't think I ever found that out.


I used to think they were skylight windows but I'm not sure what they really are for.


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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

Skylights make as much sense as anything else.


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## Nova Designs (Oct 10, 2000)

I thought the were supposed to be personnel hatches? That's how they were labeled in the tech manual.


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## JeffG (May 10, 2004)

A couple of years ago, I sold my Polar Lights 1/1000 Enterprise (I was offered a good price. What can I say!), and want to build another one. Does anybody know of a lighting kit for it. In particular the bussards? I could've swore at some point I saw something like that on the web once but can't seem to find anything now. Granted, it would have to be ridiculously small, but hey-I do build 1/43rd cars!


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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

Just set up a poll. Feel free to chime in, kiddies.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

JeffG said:


> A couple of years ago, I sold my Polar Lights 1/1000 Enterprise (I was offered a good price. What can I say!), and want to build another one. Does anybody know of a lighting kit for it. In particular the bussards? I could've swore at some point I saw something like that on the web once but can't seem to find anything now. Granted, it would have to be ridiculously small, but hey-I do build 1/43rd cars!


Check CultTVMan. I got some tiny animated bussard LEDs from him.


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