# 1/350 TOS E Pushed back to 2011



## Opus Penguin (Apr 19, 2004)

Per Round 2:

"So, many people have picked up on a small detail in our latest press release that our 1/350 TOS Enterprise looks to be pushed back into 2011. We don’t want to be the company that cried wolf so although an explanation isn’t required, I’ll offer up some quick detail.

First, let me address all of the Eeyores out there that say 'oh man, that kit will never get made' Or 'I may die of old age before we ever see the kit'. To them, I offer the hard reality that aliens could invade the planet Earth tonight and we’ll be involved in an interstellar war that rages for a millennia and they’d be right that the kit may never happen in their lifetime. To them, I say, lighten up lest your bottom lip gets a rug burn.

Development of the kit has begun. It has beaten the start of the new movie Enterprise by a full month. This is a kit that MUST be right in every way. It MUST be accurate. It MUST build better than the 1/350 Refit. (yes, I said better) It MUST be special. It will be our best effort to bring a definitive kit to market that requires nothing more to add to the subject.

Our original goal was to bring the kit out by the end of 2010. By that, I mean out in late November. We have limited resources and with the economy as it is where banks don’t hand out money as freely as they did just a year ago, we were told the date needed to move back into 2011. By pushing it back a few months, we are allowed to still do most of the other new kits we have planned for 2010. If it was the only new kit we did in 2010, I’m still not sure it could have happened. It truly is out of our control.

So we hope to have it out just after the clock strikes 2011. Thanks to those who have been reasonable and can understand that we don’t make decisions like this to torture anyone. If we had unlimited funds and a time machine, we’d put it out tomorrow. But the invasion starts tonight so it still wouldn’t have happened…"


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## Just Plain Al (Sep 7, 1999)

Check the last couple of pages of this thread http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=257535


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## idman (Apr 11, 2004)

Time for Vaderman to get his gears in motion...on this one


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

Great they've started development but bummer it's taking so long. Looks like us people who want a 1/350 K'TINGA will be waiting forever.


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## Vaderman (Nov 2, 2002)

:wave: We will see how things play out. I think R2 will come thru.

Scott


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## No_6 (Jun 20, 2009)

Well, I have plenty of stuff to keep me busy until then. And y'know, I'd rather it come out late and right than for it to be rushed and to have major problems.


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## Fozzie (May 25, 2009)

I have no doubt at all that we will see the 1:350 TOS _Enterprise_. And if it takes till 2011 to get it right, it's worth the wait.


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

Fozzie said:


> I have no doubt at all that we will see the 1:350 TOS _Enterprise_. And if it takes till 2011 to get it right, it's worth the wait.




I think it's ridiculous that it's going to take that long. Surely it's a well known ship and getting the reference and tooling done should be a lot easier than many other subjects. It's not even as if it's a complicated shape. 


It's most probably pressure from Paramount to get the new movie stuff out first.


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## Opus Penguin (Apr 19, 2004)

Just Plain Al said:


> Check the last couple of pages of this thread http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=257535


Missed this on the other thread. Thanks.


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## Opus Penguin (Apr 19, 2004)

SUNGOD said:


> I think it's ridiculous that it's going to take that long. Surely it's a well known ship and getting the reference and tooling done should be a lot easier than many other subjects. It's not even as if it's a complicated shape.
> 
> 
> It's most probably pressure from Paramount to get the new movie stuff out first.


At least it is early 2011. They weren't planning to release it until late 2010 anyway. I can wait a bit, but I hope it doesn't get pushed out longer than that.

Of course ... isn't 2011 when Star Trek 10 comes out?


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## JeffG (May 10, 2004)

We've waited this long. Another year or so won't matter. Plenty of things to keep us busy till then.


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## idman (Apr 11, 2004)

Vaderman said:


> :wave: We will see how things play out. I think R2 will come thru.
> 
> Scott



I'm sure they will come thru It's just I WANT IT NOW NOW NOW :tongue:


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## marc111 (Nov 10, 2005)

Boy I wish they had made this clear in their original release. I thought it had moved out much further that a couple of months. Have top apologise to them for my own rant on the subject. This kind of schedule massaging I can understand and deal with.

Mark
Maintaining his hope


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## Lou Dalmaso (Jul 13, 2004)

White Whale...

I'm telling you.

White Whale


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## falcondesigns (Oct 30, 2002)

SUNGOD said:


> I think it's ridiculous that it's going to take that long. Surely it's a well known ship and getting the reference and tooling done should be a lot easier than many other subjects. It's not even as if it's a complicated shape.
> 
> 
> It's most probably pressure from Paramount to get the new movie stuff out first.


you made this up as you went along,right?


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## Atemylunch (Jan 16, 2006)

SUNGOD said:


> I think it's ridiculous that it's going to take that long. Surely it's a well known ship and getting the reference and tooling done should be a lot easier than many other subjects. It's not even as if it's a complicated shape.
> 
> 
> It's most probably pressure from Paramount to get the new movie stuff out first.


This is a guy who didn't read the whole post. 

Money is the issue here, with dies costing over $100k I wouldn't be surprised to hear of more cancellations(the E, and Akira).


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## mrdean (Aug 11, 1998)

I think it is ridiculous that some of us cannot find something else to build in the mean time. This "want it now" attitude, not in jest, is very :beatdeadhorse:.

I am very happy with all the models that are out and on their way! I am glad Polar Lights/Round 2 is here releasing anything! I never thought a SpocK or Intergalactic UFO would ever be seen again in a new box! :woohoo:

They do not need to explain or justify. I am grateful they even let us know as much as they do.

If they need a little more time for any reason...........

I am on their side!


Mark Dean


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## SFCOM1 (Sep 3, 2002)

idman said:


> I'm sure they will come thru It's just I WANT IT NOW NOW NOW :tongue:


OK I got a Queen song stuck in my head....

_"I WANT IT ALL....I WANT IT ALL....I WANT IT ALL...And I want it NOW!"_


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

falcondesigns said:


> you made this up as you went along,right?



What do you mean "I made it up as I went along"? I might be wrong but how come a smaller company like Moebius can bring out an accurate Jupiter 2 possibly by late 2009 and it takes R2 till 2011 to do the Enterprise? I'm sure Moebius will put in just as much effort to get the Jupiter 2 right (and that has a good interior) and it will still most probably be out a lot earlier.


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

Atemylunch said:


> This is a guy who didn't read the whole post.
> 
> Money is the issue here, with dies costing over $100k I wouldn't be surprised to hear of more cancellations(the E, and Akira).






I most certainly did read the whole post but I find it hard to believe. See what I said about Moebius.


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

mrdean said:


> I think it is ridiculous that some of us cannot find something else to build in the mean time. This "want it now" attitude, not in jest, is very :beatdeadhorse:.
> 
> I am very happy with all the models that are out and on their way! I am glad Polar Lights/Round 2 is here releasing anything! I never thought a SpocK or Intergalactic UFO would ever be seen again in a new box! :woohoo:
> 
> ...



I'm on their side too and believe me I like the fact that companies like R2 keep in contact with us potential customers but I still think it's a long time to wait. And what about us people who want other kits like the 1/350 K'TINGA, will we have to wait until 2013 or even worse nothing at all?


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## falcondesigns (Oct 30, 2002)

SUNGOD said:


> What do you mean "I made it up as I went along"? I might be wrong but how come a smaller company like Moebius can bring out an accurate Jupiter 2 possibly by late 2009 and it takes R2 till 2011 to do the Enterprise? I'm sure Moebius will put in just as much effort to get the Jupiter 2 right (and that has a good interior) and it will still most probably be out a lot earlier.


Because they (R2)TOLD YOU WHY THEY ARE DOING WHAT THEY ARE DOING!!! and you ranted on anyway..........


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## irishtrek (Sep 17, 2005)

I don't know about any body else but I would like to see a kit of TOS E with seperate the pylons seperate from the warp engines and the secondary hull as well as a seperate neck.


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## spindrift (Apr 16, 2005)

I actually agree with SUNGOD. No way a great great kit of the TOS E can't be done alot sooner- as Moebius can do something MUCH more complicated (IMO) like a J2 with interior and legs, etc in a year or so..why??
Having said that ,the "get things right" excuse is just that- an excuse. I agree it must be Paramount wanting new movie stuff moved into the pipeline first or possibly another political reason. They have said since LAST YEAR a new TOS E in 1/350 will be done. So what is going on?
We all want it badly. Guess they think new Trek stuff will sell alot better, well we'll see.
However let me point out the basic point of WE CAN WAIT is correct! We have lives- it is only a plastic kit. I'm just worried about priority changes or cancellations down the road. 
I DO have confidence that R2 can pull it off!
Gary:wave:


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

falcondesigns said:


> Because they (R2)TOLD YOU WHY THEY ARE DOING WHAT THEY ARE DOING!!! and you ranted on anyway..........




I'm not ranting about it falcon, I'm just giving my opinion about what they said. Again I'm glad that R2 keep in contact with us and that's a good thing but just because R2 tell us what they're doing does that mean we can't question it?


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

spindrift said:


> I actually agree with SUNGOD. No way a great great kit of the TOS E can't be done alot sooner- as Moebius can do something MUCH more complicated (IMO) like a J2 with interior and legs, etc in a year or so..why??
> Having said that ,the "get things right" excuse is just that- an excuse. I agree it must be Paramount wanting new movie stuff moved into the pipeline first or possibly another political reason. They have said since LAST YEAR a new TOS E in 1/350 will be done. So what is going on?
> We all want it badly. Guess they think new Trek stuff will sell alot better, well we'll see.
> However let me point out the basic point of WE CAN WAIT is correct! We have lives- it is only a plastic kit. I'm just worried about priority changes or cancellations down the road.
> ...





Exactly, and it's not as if Moebius aren't doing other things themselves too. We all want the kit to be as good as possible but taking over a year and a half to bring out a new Enterprise kit is surely stretching things a little. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the delay is because of new movie stuff getting in the way.


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## falcondesigns (Oct 30, 2002)

Having been in the hobby business for over forty years,I think I can speak with confidence......


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## mrdean (Aug 11, 1998)

SUNGOD said:


> I'm not ranting about it falcon, I'm just giving my opinion about what they said. Again I'm glad that R2 keep in contact with us and that's a good thing but just because R2 tell us what they're doing does that mean we can't question it?


What we know:

We know what they have told us but not everything. We know the quality of the Polar Lights products. We do know that Round 2 has several different product lines. 

We know that we all want one as soon as possible!

What we do not know:

We do not know the impact of each of those product lines on the business decisions. We do not know any of the elements that go into the decision with either Moebius or Round 2.

My opinion is this:

I trust that Round 2 will release products as fast as they can. It has nothing to do with Moebius or China. It has to do with whatever Round 2 Models needs to do to keep cost down and maintain a financial stability to do this for many years. I do not want a company to stretch themselves too thin and go away. I want models!

I can wait without getting frustrated. In the mean time I am pondering how I will light it; display it, what third party stuff will be available and collect as much reference material so when it hits the market I am ready to buy a few and add them to my model stash. I might stop everything else and build this one first but then I might not! :devil:

Mark Dean


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## falcondesigns (Oct 30, 2002)

well said,Mark


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

falcondesigns said:


> Having been in the hobby business for over forty years,I think I can speak with confidence......




What is it you do in the hobby business Falcon?


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

mrdean said:


> What we know:
> 
> We know what they have told us but not everything. We know the quality of the Polar Lights products. We do know that Round 2 has several different product lines.
> 
> ...



We don't know the full facts true but over 1 and a half years still seems one _heck_ of a long time to bring a new model out to me.


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## falcondesigns (Oct 30, 2002)

SUNGOD said:


> What is it you do in the hobby business Falcon?


Product Developement.


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## SUNGOD (Jan 20, 2006)

falcondesigns said:


> Product Developement.




Well spill the beans man! What've you worked on?


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## Lee Staton (May 13, 2000)

Some of you guys are just amazing. R2 announces they are doing a kit we've all wanted, and you flame them and disbelieve them just because it doesn't suit your time schedules! Come on!

I've been around this inside of this hobby longer than most. I used to give feedback (not usually acted upon) to AMT on their ORIGINAL Star Trek kit test shots, starting with the Romulan ship in the early 1970's. A 2-year development time for an injection-molded kit is not unusual...and in this economy, embarking on such a large and expensive project would be paid for by proceeds from several smaller projects along the way. That could slow it down a bit further.

Keep in mind that when Moebius announced their J-2 with prototype photos that meant they'd already been working on it in secret for probably a year!

I would gently, and as a fellow fan who can't wait to buy this (potential) kit, encourage you to be more understanding and just a bit more supportive of a company who is working at great financial risk to make one of our grail kits come true. Have some perspective!

Just sayin'.

Lee


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## irishtrek (Sep 17, 2005)

SUNGOD said:


> We don't know the full facts true but over 1 and a half years still seems one heck of a long time to bring a new model out to me.


I would like to remind you that when PL decided to do the refit in 1/350 it took a couple of years from the time it was announced to the time when it showed up in hobby shops, so have some patience and understanding. OK?


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## Ductapeforever (Mar 6, 2008)

I say if some people think they can do better, and build a kit bigger, with all the bells and whistles, lights, sound, little replicas of all their favorite actors, screen accurate for some really reasonable price like...oh, lets say $15.00. Oh, lets not forget we want it YESTERDAY. GO AHEAD,HAVE AT IT!
The rest of us, who think realistically will let the professionals bring us the kits of our dreams. Give 'em time, get a grip.


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## BlackbirdCD (Oct 31, 2003)

SUNGOD said:


> We don't know the full facts true but over 1 and a half years still seems one hell of a long time to bring a new model out to me.


18 months, on average, is right in the ballpark. Gives you plenty of time to empty that "to do" pile, right?


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## Nova Designs (Oct 10, 2000)

BlackbirdCD said:


> 18 months, on average, is right in the ballpark. Gives you plenty of time to empty that "to do" pile, right?


LOL, not MY "to do" pile! Its more like a "to do" mountain range! :wave:


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## Rattrap (Feb 23, 1999)

Licensed kits also have a "shelf life" issue. Those of us who've waited 40 years for a big-scale 1701 are willing to wait a while longer. Interest in the JJ-prise, on the other hand, may wane, so Round 2 has to strike while it's hot. Plus, as some of the other folks pointed out, this is going to be a major tooling effort which is going to frankly, be aimed at a small "niche" market. They're going to need some successful smaller kits to raise the front money for the project.


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## Opus Penguin (Apr 19, 2004)

I can wait until 2011. Heck I am having to put money out for the J2 from Moebius so I can wait a bit for the 1/350 TOS E. Also I have not come close to finishing my refit yet. I would rather have all I need to ready it for build. I am hoping we will see some after market kits pretty quickly afterwards, but if wha tthey say is true, that it will be the most accurate on the market, then we may not have to worry about too many aftermarket kits (maybe more shuttles  )


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## irishtrek (Sep 17, 2005)

heck if it has a shuttle bay, which I am certane it will, then swap shuttles between tos E and the refit.


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## BlackbirdCD (Oct 31, 2003)

Nova Designs said:


> LOL, not MY "to do" pile! Its more like a "to do" mountain range! :wave:


Oh I like that... mine's definitely a mountain too! :thumbsup: I need to quit working or else I'll never even make a dent before I'm dead!


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## BruceDownunder (Aug 25, 2008)

Rattrap said:


> Licensed kits also have a "shelf life" issue. Those of us who've waited 40 years for a big-scale 1701 are willing to wait a while longer. Interest in the JJ-prise, on the other hand, may wane, so Round 2 has to strike while it's hot. Plus, as some of the other folks pointed out, this is going to be a major tooling effort which is going to frankly, be aimed at a small "niche" market. They're going to need some successful smaller kits to raise the front money for the project.


Couldn't agree more.
And then of course there are the inevitable sequels featuring the new crew & Enterprise which will maintain interest and (hopefully for Round 2) demand for the kit - unless of course it's destroyed in the first 10 minutes of the next movie and replaced by ANOTHER new design.
But I don't want to think about that. 
And nor do you. 

In the words of a very wise Vulcan. "Having a thing is sometimes not nearly satisfying as wanting a thing". I thank Round 2 for ensuring that in 2011, the difference between the two will be, from all accounts, very minimal.

Cheers,

Bruce


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## Dr. Brad (Oct 5, 1999)

Well, one thing about it - at least Round 2 knows there's a significant amount of interest in this kit! I'm sure it will be a great kit when it gets here and worth the wait. In the mean time, I'm looking forward to the 1/1000 refit!


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## Nova Designs (Oct 10, 2000)

BruceDownunder said:


> In the words of a very wise Vulcan. "Having a thing is sometimes not nearly satisfying as wanting a thing"...



Come on! Everyone knows that statement only applies to really hot women!


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## BruceDownunder (Aug 25, 2008)

... And Star Trek V - The Final Frontier.


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

Nova Designs said:


> Come on! Everyone knows that statement only applies to really hot women!


Hot _Vulcan_ women.


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## irishtrek (Sep 17, 2005)

And just which Vulcan women woud you be reffering to?


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## Griffworks (Jun 24, 2002)

The hot ones, of course! :twisted: 

I definitely agree w/Lee - some of ya'll need to keep a bit of perspective about this just being a hobby. I mean, it's not like you'll literally die w/o having the model, right? Yes, I _feel_ your frustration and all, but as Patsy so wisely told us: _It's only a model_. 

'Sides, how many of you would actually build it w/in one year of it being released? 

.


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## El Gato (Jul 15, 2000)

Think of it in geologic time: 2011 is like a microsecond away....


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## Steve Mavronis (Oct 14, 2001)

^^^
So is the 23rd century but I won't be around to see it.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Griffworks said:


> The hot ones, of course! :twisted:
> 
> I definitely agree w/Lee - some of ya'll need to keep a bit of perspective about this just being a hobby. I mean, it's not like you'll literally die w/o having the model, right?


Well, I'm not gonna die _because _it doesn't come out; I'm just worried I may die _before_ it comes out! :lol:


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## Lou Dalmaso (Jul 13, 2004)

John,

I'm worried that when/if it finally is released. the resultant heart attacks may take out a good portion of the modeling population


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## RossW (Jan 12, 2000)

I think in and of itself the delay in a few months from Nov. 2010 to Jan/Feb 2011 isn't a big deal; I think what's also at play here is the memory of some of the boneheaded marketing decisions made back when the original Polar Lights company got the Star Trek licence and put out the NX-01 in 1/350, 1/1000 and then the Scorpion. They knew when they first announced the licence that modellers were clamouring for a 1/350 TOS E, but they chose to make the above-mentioned kits instead, all the while promising that they'd get to the TOS E 'sometime'.

So it's not just a couple of months delay; it feels like years and years.


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## m jamieson (Dec 18, 2008)

I think I'm going to build two...a matter one, and an anti-matter version
Of course I have to be careful not to display them on the same shelf!


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## mach7 (Mar 25, 2002)

I would guess the real problem is it won't be out in Feb 11. It will get delayed. Every kit has, it's the business. My big fear is what will happen between now and mid to late 2011, when it will probably be out. The interstellar war, the economy, Polar Lights, eddies in the space time continuum, The world in general. There are too many variables!

Oh well, I'm just getting around to my Polar lights J2 after 10 years so that means it will be 2021 by the time I build the Enterprise, if it comes out. At least I'll be retired and work won't get in the way!


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Lou Dalmaso said:


> John,
> 
> I'm worried that when/if it finally is released. the resultant heart attacks may take out a good portion of the modeling population


:lol:
And the injuries from carrying the great big box to the car.


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## Lou Dalmaso (Jul 13, 2004)

I hadn't thought of that...

ya suppose they'll issue lifting belts and hernia compresses along with the kit?


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## Dr. Brad (Oct 5, 1999)

Lou Dalmaso said:


> I hadn't thought of that...
> 
> ya suppose they'll issue lifting belts and hernia compresses along with the kit?


Just get some of these!

http://www.kinesiologists.ca/core-shorts.shtml

If you're buying a lot of kits, you might want to go for the "pro" version!

http://www.coretection.com/pro.php


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## Lou Dalmaso (Jul 13, 2004)

Ah Man!

How am I gonna get THAT image out of my head?

Why do I keep thinking X marks the spot?


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## John Duncan (Jan 27, 2001)

I sent them a message thanking them for the reissues they have done and giving them a pat on the back.

Then I told them that every company which had announced a TOS E in that scale had postponed it and subsequently went out of business before they could get it done.

So I wished them farewell since that pretty much seals their fate.

lol


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## JGG1701 (Nov 9, 2004)

Oh now that's very encouraging!
-Jim


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## John Duncan (Jan 27, 2001)

Gotta shock them back into reality. We really *want* that kit!!!! Why is that so difficult for these companies to understand?


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## falcondesigns (Oct 30, 2002)

RossW said:


> I think in and of itself the delay in a few months from Nov. 2010 to Jan/Feb 2011 isn't a big deal; I think what's also at play here is the memory of some of the boneheaded marketing decisions made back when the original Polar Lights company got the Star Trek licence and put out the NX-01 in 1/350, 1/1000 and then the Scorpion. They knew when they first announced the licence that modellers were clamouring for a 1/350 TOS E, but they chose to make the above-mentioned kits instead, all the while promising that they'd get to the TOS E 'sometime'.
> 
> So it's not just a couple of months delay; it feels like years and years.


They had a conractual obligation to produce these kits in that order.


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## Guy Schlicter (May 3, 2004)

Another way you can look at it.Until Tom Lowe bought back Polar Lights and work out a deal to aquire A.M.T.,the Star Trek models were dead.Ertl at that time wasn't going to do anything new.We were very lucky.My way of looking at it is to be thankful we have a company that wants to make any Star Trek kits at all.Not to Mention give improved decals sheets to some of the older models and try to make them more accurate where then can.And on top of that restore these kits to the way they were when the Original A.M.T.(before Ertl came along)had them.I think we are very fortunate to be getting these kits at all.Let Round 2 know what you would like made and remember there do us a big favor by making these kits.Be thankful for what we have and that they take interest in what we want.


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## Fozzie (May 25, 2009)

Well said, Guy. I agree.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

falcondesigns said:


> They had a conractual obligation to produce these kits in that order.


You sure about that? Dave Metzner always denied it.


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## RossW (Jan 12, 2000)

I echo John's comments. PL always said that no-one at Paramount was telling what subject to do next. They did tell them where the put the legal agreement on the 1/1000 TOS E model, though, right beside the dorsal on the underside of the saucer. They put it on the inside of the Klingon kit, though ...


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## El Gato (Jul 15, 2000)

Steve Mavronis said:


> ^^^
> So is the 23rd century but I won't be around to see it.


True, but realistically and all things being equal you have a heck of a more realistic chance of seeing 2011.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

SUNGOD said:


> What do you mean "I made it up as I went along"? I might be wrong but how come a smaller company like Moebius can bring out an accurate Jupiter 2 possibly by late 2009 and it takes R2 till 2011 to do the Enterprise? I'm sure Moebius will put in just as much effort to get the Jupiter 2 right (and that has a good interior) and it will still most probably be out a lot earlier.


 
Moebius does great work.

But it really has nothing to do with a lack of effort or hard work.


If you read the statement clearly, it's not the development of the product that is taking the extra time, it's the financing of the final production.

They didn't say it was going to take them any longer to develop it.

It's financing the production that will cause the delay.


Maybe the JJ-Prise will overtake the TOS E and be released first(even if the TOS E is current a month ahead in production). 

Maybe it won't.

But either way, if they can't finance the final production of the kit when they believe it will be ready for production it won't be a matter of hard work.

You can either afford to do something or can't afford it.

It has nothing to do with anyone there is working less hard then those at other companies.


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