# Basic AW T-Jet Ultra-G Questions



## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

Hi Guys,
After having my fill of working on the red and blue translucent chassis, I have a couple basic questions as they apply to all T-Jet Ultra-Gs. These are based on what I found on the red/blue chassis and are for the stock configuration.

I'd really like to know if these are just problems I had or are they common issues. 

1. Does the chassis ride so low on the stock tires that the traction magnet drags on the rails? Even when removed, does the magnet pocket itself hit the rails?

2. Is the chassis so low that the head of the front body screw hits the track?

3. Are you limited as to which bodies can be used due to gearplate and/or wheel well clearance?

Thanks...Joe


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## Bubba 123 (Sep 10, 2010)

Grandcheapskate said:


> Hi Guys,
> After having my fill of working on the red and blue translucent chassis, I have a couple basic questions as they apply to all T-Jet Ultra-Gs. These are based on what I found on the red/blue chassis and are for the stock configuration.
> 
> I'd really like to know if these are just problems I had or are they common issues.
> ...


1) it can.. just dremil or file it a bit...
2) not that I'm aware of...but get recessed brass wood screws that match the hole dia...
3)maybe, but Aurora skinny's are interchangeable OR cut off that "Extending-Can" behind the AW front wheel rims....

hope this helps..

Bubba 123... done ??? dozens of 'em so far....

4) don't waste U'r $$, get DASH CHASSIS!!! :thumbsup:


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## Ralphthe3rd (Feb 24, 2011)

I own Three Ultra-G T-Jet Grey Chassis, and have none of the problems you describe, and two of them are running older bodies, one JL, one 1st release AW.


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## TK Solver (Mar 18, 2004)

Ralphthe3rd said:


> I own Three Ultra-G T-Jet Grey Chassis, and have none of the problems you describe, and two of them are running older bodies, one JL, one 1st release AW.


The more recent gray AW UltraG chassis have been excellent for me as well.


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## FOSTBITTEN (Aug 1, 2013)

On the ride height question. Did you change from the stock tires to some silicones of a smaller mounted diameter?


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

FOSTBITTEN said:


> On the ride height question. Did you change from the stock tires to some silicones of a smaller mounted diameter?


No. I am talking completely stock out of the package. Unless the translucent chassis are somehow different from the "normal" Ultra-G chassis, I see no way the three issues in the OP cannot be issues for all Ultra-Gs with the wide front tires.

I imagine the first two height issues (traction magnets and screw head) can be resolved with larger diameter tires. But then issue #3 becomes even a bigger problem.

The three issues in the OP are just the ones I consider to be unique to the situation at hand. All the other common complaints about AW still exist (as discussed in my other thread), but those are well known shortcomings and if you buy an AW chassis, you know what you are getting. But the three I mention above are something new to me.

Thanks...Joe


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## TK Solver (Mar 18, 2004)

It seems pretty simple. If the axle holes are positioned slightly higher on the red and blue chassis, then the tires are more likely to rub the bodies and various low-hanging parts of the chassis are more likely to drag on the track.


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## mrstumpy (Oct 5, 2013)

While all Auto World T-jets have quality control problems, I have had problems with the red and blue chassis that I have not had with the Black (grey) ones. Locally, the thinking is that the molds for these colored chassis are poorly made, or somehow they "shifted" in the machione and the chassis are cast screwed up.

The front axle holes seem to be a bit too high in the chassis allowing the car to be too low with the stock front tires. I had a red one that was so low that the pick up shoes were completely depressed and the tires barely touched the track. I installed taller tires and clearance was restored.

Two out of three of my colored chassis had casting "flash" in the crown gear teeth. This required carefully filing the teeth to remove the flash. They are noisy, but work well enough.

Since we don't use traction magnets in our club, I take these out anyway and file off the magnet pocket, now a necessity with the colored chassis riding low. But as was said here, when you buy AW, you know what you're getting. Be prepared to work on them.

On the other hand, one of our guys bought four red chassis and every one of them was fine and goes like Hell! Unfortunately, his experience has been the exception.

Stumpy in Ahia:thumbsup:


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## slotcarman12078 (Oct 3, 2008)

We've come to expect issues from AW chassis, but these colored onessound like a byproduct of total lack of QC, with totally unskilled labor at every step of production. Nix my 4X4 idea with these. With issues in every nook and cranny, they're just not worth spending any amount of coin on.


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## Bubba 123 (Sep 10, 2010)

slotcarman12078 said:


> We've come to expect issues from AW chassis, but these colored onessound like a byproduct of total lack of QC, with totally unskilled labor at every step of production. Nix my 4X4 idea with these. With issues in every nook and cranny, they're just not worth spending any amount of coin on.


don't know Joe..
"IF" I found a mega-bag full of em 4 $20....... well...... ROFLMAO!!! :freak:
Pete :wave:

not 2 into the transparent colored 1's anyways... look funky 2 me... :drunk:


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## slotcarman12078 (Oct 3, 2008)

Just look at them as (dust) collectables. :freak:


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

mrstumpy said:


> While all Auto World T-jets have quality control problems, I have had problems with the red and blue chassis that I have not had with the Black (grey) ones. Locally, the thinking is that the molds for these colored chassis are poorly made, or somehow they "shifted" in the machione and the chassis are cast screwed up.
> 
> The front axle holes seem to be a bit too high in the chassis allowing the car to be too low with the stock front tires. I had a red one that was so low that the pick up shoes were completely depressed and the tires barely touched the track. I installed taller tires and clearance was restored.
> 
> ...


Is it really possible AW used different molds for the transparent chassis? I would have thought they'd use the same molds just with different material. After all, it's supposed to be the same chassis, right?

Does anyone with plastic molding experiance have any insight as to whether the transparent material required a different mold due to the material used?

Unless the problem with the low ride height is 100% the result of different size tires, it would appear the molds for the red/blue chassis are different (and with negligable QC). If the tires on the red/blue chassis are the same O.D. as any other chassis, then the problem is unquestionably different locations for the axle holes.

It also appears the #1 mold chassis rides lower than the #2, although the amount of data on this is very slim.

And this does not take into account problems with the clearance of the body to gearplate.

Thanks...Joe


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## Ralphthe3rd (Feb 24, 2011)

YES Joe Cheapskate, the Transparent Chassis WILL require different molds, as that plastic has an entirely Different Shrinkage rate then does the Grey chassis -which has a bit more Nylon in the plastic make-up, than do the red and Blue, which seem more like Acrylic ? I don't own a Transparent chassis, so I'm not sure exactly what the plastic type that was used, but I know what plastic's that are transparent can be made from, and what they cannot....and that has entirely different shrinkage rates after they cool.


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

Ralphthe3rd said:


> YES Joe Cheapskate, the Transparent Chassis WILL require different molds, as that plastic has an entirely Different Shrinkage rate then does the Grey chassis -which has a bit more Nylon in the plastic make-up, than do the red and Blue, which seem more like Acrylic ? I don't own a Transparent chassis, so I'm not sure exactly what the plastic type that was used, but I know what plastic's that are transparent can be made from, and what they cannot....and that has entirely different shrinkage rates after they cool.


Thank you Ralph. This answers a lot of questions about why the red/blue chassis are as bad as I have discovered. Obviously no one at AW even bothered to look, just look, to see if the chassis cleared the track. The lack of any quality control is stunning. There is no excuse for this.

Just to note: AW never responded to my e-mail about these chassis. At a minimum, they should offer free larger tires for these chassis so at least you can get them to ride above the track.

Thanks...Joe


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

To anyone interested, I sent the following e-mail to AW today:

I wrote last week concerning the red and blue chassis found on the Looney Tunes slot cars. I was hoping to get some type of response, but none has been forthcoming. This should be as unacceptable to you as it is to your customers.

Over the past week I have been discussing these chassis with other hobbiests. All have come to the same conclusion. The molds for these chassis makes them unuseable in their stock state. The axle holes have been molded in the wrong place leading to the chassis dragging on the track.

With the axle holes too high in the chassis, the chassis rides too low. This causes a number of problems: (1) the traction magnet hits the rails (2) with the traction magnet removed, the magnet pocket hits the rails (3) the pickup shoes are fully depressed, therefore (4) the front tires don't touch the track (5) the front body screw hits the track and (6) tires hit the top of the wheel wells.

These issues would have been crystal clear to anyone reviewing the chassis before production. These are not minor or hidden issues, they are basic to the function of the chassis. Yet it was allowed to be produced and we as customers are stuck with them.

At the least, you should offer to exchange them for regular chassis. Having come from different molds, the regular chassis do not seem to have these problems. Short of that, you should offer free replacement tires of a larger size which would allow the chassis to ride above the track surface.

You made this mistake and compounded it by allowing these chassis to be sold to unsuspecting customers. You can try to make this right or blow off your customers.

The choice is yours.

Joe


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## slotcarman12078 (Oct 3, 2008)

I can see it now... Those chassis were designed as collectibles, not to actually run on a slot car track! We just added all the electrical components to make it an accurate depiction of an AW chassis, but in different colors for display purposes".


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

slotcarman12078 said:


> I can see it now... Those chassis were designed as collectibles, not to actually run on a slot car track! We just added all the electrical components to make it an accurate depiction of an AW chassis, but in different colors for display purposes".


Wow...very good. There may be a job waiting for you at AW customer service.

Or in government.

LOL!!!

Joe


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## beast1624 (Mar 28, 2009)

In our club we have a AW/JL T-Jet class where we have to remove the traction magnet. I used the grey chassis in last year's series. For this year I purchased a couple each of the blue and red because some of our guys had really good luck with them. To race them I put in SlotTech brushes and shoes.

Here's the quirks and pluses I found with them (same issues on both blue and red):

Quirks: back brush hole on all 4 is a little tight for the SlotTechs, left front forward axle hole on all 4 is a little tight. Also the right side hole for the gear plate clip on all 4 has a little flash causing the clip to sit at a weird angle and bind on the gears. All were easily fixed with a little careful trimming and reaming. Had one that the rear magnet set up a little high keeping the gear plate from sitting down to the chassis but tightened down the rivet under the magnet with a ball bearing and everything lined up nice.

Pluses: the armatures are amazingly close to balanced and the harder plastic does not soak up the oil like the gray ones do. I have not noticed any fit issues between the gear plate and the chassis once the gear clip hole was fixed (and the rivet was tightened on the one). The gears seem to be truer and better aligned than the ones on the grey chassis. The 4 I fixed up for our class are screamers and out perform the grey chassis from last years bunch. The SlotTech shoes seem to work really well allowing the chassis to ride very low once the traction magnet pocket is filed off. We put independent front ends with small O-rings and JW's aluminum rears with silicon's (class rules).


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## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

back to Joe's OP.
having raced a few myself, and I have recollected that experience, and having read some other experiences,
I have to wonder if Joe purchased these chassis all from the same seller and maybe, just maybe, they were culled out as unworthy?
not casting any stones, just throwing a MAYBE out there that I haven't read to this point.
what I suspect will not help make any of those chassis better, but might explain why I could get one to run, right out of the box, and Joe has 10 or so duds?


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## Joe65SkylarkGS (Feb 15, 2010)

I think I'm leaning towards what Alpink says. You got a bunch of duds. I bought 6 random from Bud at one of the shows. Just so I can say i have them. 3 red and 3 blue. I tested them yesterday and they all performed ok. None were dragging and they all seemed to spool up pretty good. 

I do run a Wizzard track. No clickity click here. Not sure if this makes a difference or not.

Doesn't Tom check in here every once in a while???

Tom Lowe, any input here for us??


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## beast1624 (Mar 28, 2009)

"baCK to Joe's OP":

_1. Does the chassis ride so low on the stock tires that the traction magnet drags on the rails? Even when removed, does the magnet pocket itself hit the rails?_

Not from what I saw. Mine came with wheels the same color as the chassis and regualr tires. I anything the ones I have were taller than the regular chassis on a regular car.

_2. Is the chassis so low that the head of the front body screw hits the track?_

These were not as bad as a regular grey chassis for the screw clearing.

_3. Are you limited as to which bodies can be used due to gearplate and/or wheel well clearance?
_
No trouble with coty mounting. I was able to mount any body on the ones I got.


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## TK Solver (Mar 18, 2004)

alpink said:


> back to Joe's OP.
> having raced a few myself, and I have recollected that experience, and having read some other experiences,
> I have to wonder if Joe purchased these chassis all from the same seller and maybe, just maybe, they were culled out as unworthy?
> not casting any stones, just throwing a MAYBE out there that I haven't read to this point.
> what I suspect will not help make any of those chassis better, but might explain why I could get one to run, right out of the box, and Joe has 10 or so duds?


This is why (in another recent thread) I suggested contacting the seller before contacting the manufacturer if/when you get some duds when purchasing unsealed chassis/parts. In light of the conflicting posts in this thread, perhaps an email to the seller would be good.


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

Hi Guys,
Thanks for the recent replies. On the topic of whether the chassis were "culled" before I bought them, I can tell you without question they were not. I purchased these at a show from a dealer who is not just reliable, but from one I consider a friend; someone whom I speak with on a frequent basis. I know he does not pre-test the chassis; just removes them from the body and sells them.

Plus, the chassis were in a bin and I was the one who went through and picked the ones I wanted to buy, which I decided by finding those which had a nice loose gear train.

The first chassis I tested (#2 mold) was an absolute rocket with the traction magnet still installed, but with a lot of flashing removed so the gearplate sat somewhat straight. So speed is not the issue. In fact, it was the fastest T-Jet I have ever seen.

When I worked on the second chassis with the traction magnet installed, that's when I started having problems with the chassis hitting the track. This is when I noticed (even by the naked eye), that chassis mold #2 has more track clearance than chassis mold #1.

I too have seen the cocked gearplate clamp but didn't think about looking for flashing in the clamp holes; this is something I will do. I will also look at the inside rivet heads as the magnet is still sitting too high on the #2 chassis. I was able to lower it some by removing flashing above the magnet pocket.

Does anyone notice the flashing ring around the rear brush hole? It is high enough so you can't simply slide a brush into the hole.

Are you guys checking these out on a routed track or on plastic sectional track?

However, the clearance issue is not something only I am seeing. Others have noticed it as well. I simply put a body on the chassis and the screw hits the track and can cause one tire not to touch the track (the car will kinda rock back and forth on the screw head). Could it be you are using a thinner guide pin? I am using a standard AW guide pin, but even so, clearance shouldn't be so close that the thickness of the guide pin causes the screw to drag. 

The magnet pocket on the #1 chassis hits the rail with stock tires (which are not larger than any other car). The stock pickup shoes are completely depressed with the car on the track. I also needed to tighten the driven/cluster gear assembly quite a bit - way too much play.

These are not performance issues as the armature, magnets, brushes and pickups are probably fine. It is the product of problems with the mold, specifically excess flashing and the location of the axle holes.

I have only done two of them so far and still have 12 I haven't touched. If anyone is a big fan of them and wants them at $10 a piece, I'd be glad to send them out.

Thanks...Joe


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## beast1624 (Mar 28, 2009)

Joe
You are right on the rear brush hole. All 4 of mine had to be opened up a little to allow after market brushes to move freely. I checked and all of mine are the #1 mold. I did not notice the ride height on stock tires and wheels, though. Since these were purchased for a race class I removed the stock wheels and pickups and did all the mods we normally do to make them raceable before even mounting a body. I did not use the stock mounting screws either but the tapered ones we use for FRAY cars. I see what you mean on the traction mag pocket, it seems to poke a little further down than the grey chassis I have.

I would imagine it's just what you say that these are not as good stock as some of the later release grey chassis. I have noticed a very wide fit and finish range on those depending on release. Seems the last release of the greys was better than previous. Since most of our guys do like I do and strip them down to build them for racing the only thing we noticed was the way the motor ran.


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

beast1624 said:


> Joe
> You are right on the rear brush hole. All 4 of mine had to be opened up a little to allow after market brushes to move freely. I checked and all of mine are the #1 mold. I did not notice the ride height on stock tires and wheels, though. Since these were purchased for a race class I removed the stock wheels and pickups and did all the mods we normally do to make them raceable before even mounting a body. I did not use the stock mounting screws either but the tapered ones we use for FRAY cars. I see what you mean on the traction mag pocket, it seems to poke a little further down than the grey chassis I have.
> 
> I would imagine it's just what you say that these are not as good stock as some of the later release grey chassis. I have noticed a very wide fit and finish range on those depending on release. Seems the last release of the greys was better than previous. Since most of our guys do like I do and strip them down to build them for racing the only thing we noticed was the way the motor ran.


 Thanks Beast.

I cannot fault AW if the brush holes need to be modified to hold brushes from another manufacturer. All they should be expected to do is have the brush holes fit their brushes. My observation is not that there is a bad fit with the brush hole, but rather the rear brush hole has a raised mold ring around the outside which needs to be filed down. The inside bottom of the chassis should be smooth. Note the front brush hole actually has a recessed ring around the outside.

I am just trying to hold AW to the most basic of standards and quality. Asking that the chassis, in stock form, does not drag on the track, fits together well and allows for the mounting of existing AW bodies is not asking a lot. However, asking them to reply to an e-mail IS apparently asking too much as I have not received any reply as of today.

I am hoping to take a picture of the stock chassis to show how the front screw and magnet pocket drag the track. And the clearance problem on the wheel wells.

Thanks...Joe


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

Here are four pics of the two chassis I have worked on so far. One is a #1 and the other a #2. I tried to take a picture with the body mounted so you could see the screw head hit the track, but I couldn't get a good angle, so the front pictures just show the chassis with guide pin.

The pic names are either 1 or 2, depending on which chassis is pictured. You will note the difference in ride height between the two, although the front screw will hit the track on both chassis. But note also the difference in the traction magnet pocket. Although it is not clear in the pictures, the chassis sits so low the normal guide pin nearly touches the bottom of the slot. You can also see how compressed the pickup shoes are in stock form.

Also note the cocked gear clamp on the #1 chassis and the raised back of the gearplate on the #2 chassis; this is even after filing out all the flashing, so it was worse before.

Thanks...Joe


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## Steve F (Apr 30, 2007)

I have had no problems with all 12 cars in this release , 6 & 6 , They are super fast too , I even picked up an extra 6 of each from a seller on ebay & have no problems with any of them , A lot of Bang for the Buck , The only thing I don't like about them is the colored rims , They look a little tacky to me .


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

Interesting Steve. Is it possible to look and tell which mold numbers are on your chassis?

The first chassis I picked up, a blue #2, was an absolute screamer when I put it on the track. I first needed to trim off flashing in order to get a better gearplate/chassis mesh so a Corvette body would fit, but the car was the fastest T-Jet I have ever seen. When I removed the traction magnet I could no longer go as fast since the grip was gone, which made perfect sense.

At the time, I did not check the clearance of the front screw - it never occured to me it would be so low. It is possible I didn't notice it dragging on the track and the traction magnet can hide many flaws.

The body can have a lot to do with whether you see the front screw drag on the track. A body with a shorter post would raise the screw at the expense of moving the top of the tire closer to the top of the wheel well. If you have a body with a short post and high wheel wells, you won't see the screw or wheel well clearance issues.

But I can't believe you don't see the pickup shoes nearly completely depressed as in my pictures. That is a function of misplaced axle holes and stock diameter tires.

Remember, speed can be accomplished by many means, including using hotter armatures and stronger magnets. Just because a chassis is fast does not mean there are not issues.

Thanks...Joe


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## dlw (Aug 17, 1999)

That is low. Can you place a grey chassis so we can compare side-by-side?
Wonder what caused the axle holes to be drilled so high on the chassis?


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

dlw said:


> That is low. Can you place a grey chassis so we can compare side-by-side?
> Wonder what caused the axle holes to be drilled so high on the chassis?


I don't have a gray Ultra-G but do have some gray JL chassis, probably from around releases 2 through 4 which I have not used all that much. I could get a comparision picture of those.

As Ralph III points out, this material required the creation of new molds. No doubt there are property differences in the material used between the gray and translucent chassis which would cause one to shrink more than the other. This may have something to do with the misplacement of the axle holes.

Or it may just be sloppy workmanship.

I have questions about the injection molding process. I am assuming that when these molds are created, there are a number of cavities per mold. Let's say there are 12 per mold, so that 12 bare chassis can be made at one time.

Questions:
1. How are each of the cavities created? 
2. How identical are they to one another?
3. Do we presume that the #1 and #2 chassis came from different master molds? And how identical would they be to each other?

What I am trying to understand is the process by which the molds are made. One would assume they are not carved out by hand. I would guess they are created off the same CAD (or other such) file and therefore should be exact. But obviously something went very wrong here.

Meanwhile, I am guessing my only choice to use these is to get larger front tires. I figure the basic measurements for the stock tires are:

ID: between .189" - .203"
OD: about .405"
Width: .125"

I found some O-Rings with the following specs:

ID: .188"
OD: .449"
Width: .125"

I think I'll order these and see if the larger OD gives me the clearance needed. O-Rings are very inexpensive, so it's not a big investment. Then I'll hope some of the bodies will have the proper wheel well clearance.

Oh, by the way. Still no response from AW to my e-mails.

Thanks...Joe


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## kriket (Feb 15, 2013)

*pick up shoe*



Grandcheapskate said:


> Interesting Steve. Is it possible to look and tell which mold numbers are on your chassis?
> 
> The first chassis I picked up, a blue #2, was an absolute screamer when I put it on the track. I first needed to trim off flashing in order to get a better gearplate/chassis mesh so a Corvette body would fit, but the car was the fastest T-Jet I have ever seen. When I removed the traction magnet I could no longer go as fast since the grip was gone, which made perfect sense.
> 
> ...


it looks to me the one pick up shoe is bend more in the front than the other shoe causing it to look more depressed.


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## slotcarman12078 (Oct 3, 2008)

I don't know Joe. I can't see AW going through the expense to make new chassis molds for a special run. I can see them running a different type of plastic through the standard molds and deal with the poor consequences. My guess regarding the batch you got, and others in that same time frame, is that there was someone new at the axle drilling machine that didn't know how to set up the jig. 

Reading the measurement for the truck hole height for the lower holes is all that it takes to put all of the holes out of whack. That mess up puts the chassis lower causing all the bottoming out issues, and at the same time moves the wheels higher up into the wheel wells, causing the interference issues there. 

All it could potentially take to make the mistake is setting the jig by measuring from the wrong side of the chassis base when setting it up. Someone either was having a very bad day, or had a very good night the night before... or both.


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## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

I cannot help but chuckle a little.
there are racers that go through great pains, removing the electrics, sanding the bottom of the chassis, relocating chassis holes .... in order to get the chassis itself closer to the track.
and here, it seems, some of the process is already in place.
sorry to make light of your situation, but I don't really see the need for all the drama.

informative?
yeah, I guess so ....
and it certainly is a relief from some of the other dramas.
but I think we all recognize the situation Joe is having with a dozen special chassis that were probably only produced with collectors in mind.
I see he has kindly offered to sell them at what would seem a reasonable price.
I don't need them.
perhaps someone WILL step up and end this drama so we can find some other quirks and hash them to death as well?

I have had no problem with those chassis and I read that a couple other members have had success with them.
I do recognize, in the path of the discussion, that some issues were brought up by others.
I cannot help change the chassis into FRAY legal chassis.
and I am sorry to hear that AW has turned a deaf ear. that is disturbing because all the people that I know who complained to their customer assistance dept about cars not running or missing or track being too warped to use were made whole.
perhaps those requests did not have rhetoric regarding quality control and they simply asked for help with their problem?
Maybe they didn’t make suggestions as to how to run a business?
Yes, maybe they just said the stuff I bought doesn’t work good?


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## Dslot (Sep 2, 2007)

Does anybody know for sure whether the axle holes are created by 
A. pins in the die (mold) that withdraw before the chassis is ejected,
or by​B. drilling after the chassis has been molded?​
I would have assumed they are molded in, not drilled.

If they're drilled, Joe probably just got a batch that was made on a day when somebody calibrated the drilling jig wrong. It would be caught on the next calibration. Succeeding batches would be drilled properly, so most other people would get chassis with proper height.

I think Joe should put them up on eBay as a special-run "lowered chassis Ultra-G" with a $25 start price. 

-- D


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

D,
I would think the axle holes are molded in, but what do I know.

In a private message, someone mentioned the axle holes on at least one of his chassis are basically touching each other. I just looked at these two chassis and there is more "meat" between the holes on the #2 chassis than on the #1. In fact, on one side of the #1 chassis, the SWB axle hole is open to the high center hole - that's how close they are.

I'm going to get a feeler gauge under the front axle and measure the distance from chassis to axle bottom on these two chassis and some older JL chassis.

Thanks...Joe


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

Grandcheapskate said:


> The body can have a lot to do with whether you see the front screw drag on the track. A body with a shorter post would raise the screw at the expense of moving the top of the tire closer to the top of the wheel well. If you have a body with a short post and high wheel wells, you won't see the screw or wheel well clearance issues.
> 
> Thanks...Joe


Ooops...I fell into the trap of thinking a shorter post would raise the chassis. A shorter post would just make the situation worse as it would simply bring the body lower and closer to the tires. Obviously, it would not lift the chassis.

Got a chance to take out the feeler gauge to measure how much room is between the bottom of the axle and the chassis. I compared the #1 and #2 molded chassis to an older JL. Turns out I didn't even need to measure. Even with the naked eye, the differences between these three chassis is striking, considering we are dealing with such small measurements.

The feeler gauge has the following: .020", .025", .028", .030", .033" and .040".

Want hard facts? The #1 chassis will allow the .033" to slide under the axle. The largest the #2 will allow is .020". And the JL will not even allow the .020" to slide under the axle - doesn't even look close.

Is it any wonder these translucent chassis, especially #1, ride too low?

Joe


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## 60chevyjim (Feb 21, 2008)

you have me interested in finding the chassis that sit too low.
they would be great for the custom lowered resin body cars I like to build.
I almost never use the aw rims and tires , just too boring looking.
the magnet thingie , no problem my dremmel cant fix .
the front screw is not a problem , just need to use fray style screws.


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## mrstumpy (Oct 5, 2013)

Okay, let me see if I understand where we are with this. ALL AW T-jet chassis are lame in some way compared to the "better" original Aurora chassis. However, it seems that those better Aurora chassis have all been bought up now and we are left with the warped or otherwise less desirable ones.

Compared to an original Aurora as now availible, the AW chassis has a faster arm, stronger magnets, and better wheels and tires (well, at least tires that are not rock hard from being forty years old and always were far too skinny.) But now, it appears that due to flawed mold machining, mold shift, or plastic with a different shrinkage rate, the red and blue AW chassis have even more serious quality problems than the gray ones!

Therefore it would seem that the forty year old Aurora chassis is even less of a deal than the poor quality AW chassis for racers. This means that whatever chassis you want to race, you have to spend additional time and money to make the car competitive for racing.....sort of like making a race car out of a REAL production line automobile. 

Of course, when you buy a new real car, it doesn't come with ride height problems, warped chassis, bad gears, screwed up motors, or pre-aged tires. And like using the AW red/blue chassis vs. the grey ones, you don't build a race car out of a Kruze when a Camaro is availible. 

As far as AW not giving a damn and not answering e-mail, that's true because I'm STILL waiting for a reply about a grey chassis from two years ago. However, you'll wait a LOT longer to hear back from Aurora! 

Or have I missed something during this discussion?

Stumpy in Ahia:thumbsup:


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## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

*Dash*



mrstumpy said:


> Okay, let me see if I understand where we are with this. ALL AW T-jet chassis are lame in some way compared to the "better" original Aurora chassis. However, it seems that those better Aurora chassis have all been bought up now and we are left with the warped or otherwise less desirable ones.
> 
> Compared to an original Aurora as now availible, the AW chassis has a faster arm, stronger magnets, and better wheels and tires (well, at least tires that are not rock hard from being forty years old and always were far too skinny.) But now, it appears that due to flawed mold machining, mold shift, or plastic with a different shrinkage rate, the red and blue AW chassis have even more serious quality problems than the gray ones!
> 
> ...


there are now DASH chassis available 
:wave:


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## Super Coupe (Feb 16, 2010)

There are 50 original t-jet chassis in what is left of a case on E-Bay for a starting bid of $949.95 and a full case that is up to $1,380.99. [For info purposes]
>Tom<


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## mrstumpy (Oct 5, 2013)

Wow! I have a hard time even comprehending numbers like that for HO cars! But then I don't really need a case of them. I have too many now. Besides a thousand bucks will make a good down payment on a brand new Legends Car and I can get in and drive it! 

As for the new Dash chassis, I keep reading mixed reviews about it, and getting one seems to be a problem so far. I certainly hope the quality control is better than old Aurora or Auto World. It would be nice to take a car right out of the box and have it run well without spending additional time and money.

Oh well, back to the workbench with Aurora and AW...

Stumpy in Ahia:wave:


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

Hi Guys,
I would appreciate if someone can verify my measurements. I want to buy some O-Rings with a larger OD than the stock front tires on these red/blue chassis. I see some that might fit the bill on Mc-Master-Carr but don't want to buy if my measurements are off.

The one measurement that is real critial is the OD of the rim as that would then be the ID of the tire. Here is what I get as measurements on the stock chassis:

Rim OD: .204" 
Stock tire OD: .417
Stock tire width: .138 (nominal 1/8")

I would try for O-Rings that are 1/8" wide with an OD of around 7/16" (.437). It's the ID that may be a problem as the best I can find is a nominal 3/16" (.187) with a real size of only .171".

Thanks...Joe


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## LDThomas (Nov 30, 1999)

They stretch...


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## Ralphthe3rd (Feb 24, 2011)

Joe, you really won't find "O" Rings with the correct dimensions you seek, to fit a front Tuff Ones wheel. Although you May(?) find a rubber washer or grommet ? But seriously, there are other ways to prevent dragging up front, ie- just countersink the front guide pin hole and use a tapered flathead screw ! How do you think the Fray/SS guys run so low up front without dragging.
PS- IT's funny, most guys WANT to lower their T-Jet Chassis


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## beast1624 (Mar 28, 2009)

Hey Joe
I have bought o-rings before from a company called O-Ring City. Their address is

www.paintballorings.com

They have a really good size chart that shows ID and OD on their various rings sorted by what they call the Dash #. You can either order from them or jot down the size and go to Lowes or Home Depot (I have bought them from both places)

http://www.paintballorings.com/Size%20Chart.pdf


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## Ralphthe3rd (Feb 24, 2011)

BTW Joe, I guess you didn't see my recent (HO Detroit) Olds 442 Build. I had to use the *Truck axle hole up front to line up the wheelwells. And guess what, I USED Standard T-Jet Wheels and Tires up front, without any dragging issues. How'd I do that ? Very simple, just counter sunk the guide pin hole and used a flathead tapered screw, and went with Dash pick-up shoes with AFX PU Springs. Nothing Drags and the car handles like a Dream !


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## lenny (Feb 29, 2000)

mrstumpy said:


> As for the new Dash chassis, I keep reading mixed reviews about it,


Really? what's the worst you've 'read'?


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## Hittman101 (Oct 21, 2009)

I will take a T-Dash chassis over any of the AW.. I have had no problems with it and have to work on all of the AW t-jet chassis before running..


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## Boosted-Z71 (Nov 26, 2007)

Hittman101 said:


> I will take a T-Dash chassis over any of the AW.. I have had no problems with it and have to work on all of the AW t-jet chassis before running..


I second the above, AW should not be said in the same sentence as Dash or Aurora, AW is nowhere near the quality of either of the other chassis.

Boosted


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## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

it is paintballorings.com, with a T


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

beast1624 said:


> Hey Joe
> I have bought o-rings before from a company called O-Ring City. Their address is
> 
> www.painballorings.com
> ...


Looks like dash #201 is the right size. It's strange they only have one ID/OD combination listed for each size.

Seems to be the same size as I found at McMaster-Carr.

And I agree, AW should not be mentioned in the same sentence with Aurora or (from what I read) Dash when talking about quality.

Thanks...Joe


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## beast1624 (Mar 28, 2009)

alpink said:


> it is paintballorings.com, with a T


Sorry about that


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## TK Solver (Mar 18, 2004)

Hittman101 said:


> I will take a T-Dash chassis over any of the AW.. I have had no problems with it and have to work on all of the AW t-jet chassis before running..


The two chassis aren't comparable even though some of the parts are interchangeable. In stock form, an AW TJet UltraG will whip a Dash chassis EVERY time.

OK, so the AW has a traction magnet. Glue a traction magnet to the Dash. Again, the AW whips it with much more acceleration.

OK, so the Dash has less grip with the skinny rear tires. Well the hubs are pretty skinny so improving rear grip means getting skinny silicone tires or changing the hubs. If I change the rear hubs and use some wide silicones, the Dash still can't keep up with the AW.

OK, so the pick-up shoes and gearing aren't the same...

To be fair, let's reverse the goal and say that we want to make an AW chassis race against a stock Dash. That is, we remove the AW traction magnet and swap the rear wheels and tires for skinny ones. The gearing may be a problem for the AW in this condition unless you use a higher ohm controller. Otherwise, it's pretty twitchy in the curves. Meanwhile, the Dash is a smooth runner.

Like I said to start this post, the two chassis aren't comparable. If you're looking for a smooth running chassis, the Dash is all that. If you think you're going to race a Dash against an AW, it's going to take some work. What I keep reading here is that a lot of you don't care about racing a Dash against an AW. You're going to race Dashes against Dashes and NOS Aurora T-Jets. Fine do that. But it doesn't make much sense to compare them the current offerings from AW.


This conclusion is based on the 5 Dash chassis I purchased from Jag.


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## kriket (Feb 15, 2013)

*dash and aw chsssis*

personally, I like both chassis. The aw ultra g chassis are faster but thats because they have the stronger black and white magnets and traction magnets. I take the traction magnets out and run them at 9 volts and they run smooth and fast after I tune them. dash chassis are in a class of their own, more like on the lines of the old t jets,actually better then the t jets. Comparing aw with dash chassis is comparing apples to oranges, they are both great chassis but to run them together in one class, the motors magnets and arms have to be changed to even them out.
Personally i hear alot of bashing directed at aw chassis, sure some times there might be a few that are less than perfect but can be fixed easily enough, But that dont spoil the whole bunch. I have some that ran great after running it on my track to break it in and adjusting pickup shoes and brush spring tension, and i did'nt even polish the gears. and I always run them without traction magnets.


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## lenny (Feb 29, 2000)

kriket said:


> but to run them together in one class, the motors magnets and arms have to be changed to even them out.


When did the AW t-jet magnets leap frog in front of the dash? and seriously, an AW arm and Dash arm arent in the same class. they ohm-out comparably, but the AW arm is a crap shoot. most are junk. 


so you're swapping what out of where to 'even them out'?


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## lenny (Feb 29, 2000)

TK Solver said:


> The two chassis aren't comparable even though some of the parts are interchangeable. In stock form, an AW TJet UltraG will whip a Dash chassis EVERY time.
> 
> OK, so the AW has a traction magnet. Glue a traction magnet to the Dash. Again, the AW whips it with much more acceleration.
> 
> ...


you're taking a t-jet geared dash against a tuff-ones geared AW. gee, which one is faster???


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## kriket (Feb 15, 2013)

lenny said:


> When did the AW t-jet magnets leap frog in front of the dash? and seriously, an AW arm and Dash arm arent in the same class. they ohm-out comparably, but the AW arm is a crap shoot. most are junk.
> 
> 
> so you're swapping what out of where to 'even them out'?


 the aw ultra g magnets and arms would have to be swapped out to slow them down.The magnets are much stronger in them.


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## lenny (Feb 29, 2000)

kriket said:


> the aw ultra g magnets and arms would have to be swapped out to slow them down.The magnets are much stronger in them.


anyone else want to chime in on this, because I strongly disagree...


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

I think you guys are missing the point about the comparisions. When I speak about comparing the JL/AW chassis to an Aurora or Dash I am speaking only about the quality of the chassis. Does anyone here wish to argue that the quality of the AW chassis compares to (or exceeds) that of Aurora or Dash? Or even the Model Motoring Thunder Plus?

Speed wise, there is no comparision. But that is a facor of the parts used to make the chassis and how a chassis is geared.

As I mentioned early in this thread, the first translucent blue chassis I tried was an absolute bullet with the traction magnet installed. So speed is not the criteria for comparision - quality is the issue. When I removed the traction magnet, it could not be driven at those speeds. And what good are these chassis if the axle holes are placed at random positions?

I recently took some old bare AFX chassis (both standard and MT) which were in various conditions. In them I placed old used Aurora brushes and pickup shoes. I used my new pickup and comm springs. I then used a NOS AW gearplate/armature and new Dash magnets for the AFX and AW XT magnets for the MTs. And you know what? Even using those old Aurora parts, these hybrid chassis are faster than any original I own.

It's all about the component parts. You wouldn't compare an AW to an inline in terms of speed. But you could compare them on the basis of the quality that went into each one.

Joe


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## lenny (Feb 29, 2000)

kriket said:


> the aw ultra g magnets...are much stronger in them.


that's not true. gauss both sets and tell me what you get. and the arm in the AW is not even in the same class as a dash. it's junk


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## slotcarman12078 (Oct 3, 2008)

The AW has a bigger 14 tooth pinion gear. It'll easily go faster because of this. Swap the crown and pinion to a 14 tooth in the Dash and I'll bet a wooden nickel they'll be compatible.


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## Boosted-Z71 (Nov 26, 2007)

Yeah I will chime in, Assuming equal tires, weight & bodies on both chassis. If you want an AW to go fast the first thing you have to do is re-size the rear axle to fix the slop in the chassis holes, and make it straight. How do you do this, I have a jig built that I use for my "built" cars I check all holes in the chassis to see if they are straight and perpendicular, find the problem and fix it from there.

The next thing to fix is the mesh in the crown gear to the cluster gear shaft, I personally have not see one that is perpendicular to the axle on an AW/ JL chassis, now when you get that fixed move on to the cluster gear, (plastic) no chance of it being round and it shows in the overall gear mesh, and will generally come loose on the shaft soon. 

Lets move on to the magnets, most AW/JL are so far off position in the Air gap to the arm, that its pathetic to try to get it right .703 - .710, and the front mag will be different distance than the back. So now you have the dilema of where to move them and then get the air gap close to the correct size & centered in the chassis. 

Now the arm, a simple test, take you AW arm chuck it up in your Dremel and spin it up good, 8-10K rpm, more than likely it will tear the Dremel from you hand and throw the arm across the room from vibration alone, check the com plate for flatness, .010-.015 for one of them is great, I know I fixed a ton of them for our JL/Fray mock up cars we built for the kids to race. And I have seen terrible winding jobs, globs of solder on the tabs and loose com plates, all right out of the box 

Now lets get to the electricals on an AW/JL, I guarantee the shoe hanger plates are either crooked, bent or loose, pick which one you want to fix first, and they are of thinner material that will easily bend again once straightened.

If an AW car runs fast out of the box it has been my experience that the chassis is so sloppy on everything that it will soon start wearing out gears and slow down. I personally have never had an AW car that screams right out of the box.

To build a fast Dash car, start by shimming the crown gear between .003 - .005, I have built 3 cars they all were relatively the same on the shim needed. Lap the gear train , crown, cluster idler etc all at once, I adjust the thrust distance on the cluster shaft and arm to .005 clearance, plate to gear, I also make sure the cluster shaft does not hit the rear axle from the adjustments. 

Magnets, Dash magnets match really close on the gauss meter, I have seen some sets that give larger numbers but they almost always are within 2%, and you can usually shim them .006 to .008, there is a little variance here, but easily overcome to get to the correct air gap & position in the chassis. 

Armature, Dash arms are some of the best I have seen to date, winds are tight, small solder pads, flat com plate, what I have seen are .001 or less, shafts are perpendicular to com stack, and good electrical balance for ohms pole to pole.

Polish the com plate, Re-assemble, adjust the shoes, brush tension, (Sorry Dan I like JB brushes) run for break in, and start to race, these Dash units are that good,

Show me a fast AW (I have some) it will have 3-4X the amount of work into it over a Dash chassis that is just as fast. I have had several good AW's that when they get fast the arm is ready to fly apart, just a question of what lap it does it on. 

Not trying to argue here, When someone builds something this good it deserves the praise. That Dash chassis is just better built, tighter tolerances, better materials, as well as all the components are top notch, and what kills me is he is doing it for a very fair price.

Who knows maybe we could come up with an HT proxy contest for built AW & Dash bullets, using Stock mags, arms etc, winner takes all entries. 

I know what chassis I am starting with.......DASH 

And Joe, I have a T-jet Drag car I built, that will hold its own with most in-lines any day, its fun to compare it's speed to an in-line, the look on most guys face is priceless, and I know of several guys on here that have pancakes that will destroy my little Buick. So dont rule out the pancake as a formidable force. 

Boosted


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## lenny (Feb 29, 2000)

Boosted-Z71 said:


> Polish the com plate, Re-assemble, adjust the shoes, brush tension, (Sorry Dan I like JB brushes) run for break in, and start to race, these Dash units are that good,


I love JB brushes, waiting on a quote for a bulk order...


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## lenny (Feb 29, 2000)

A statement like 'the AW magnets are much stronger' really annoys me, because I know that it simply not true.


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## Boosted-Z71 (Nov 26, 2007)

You know a "stronger set of magnets" does not always produce the fastest cars. I have measured plenty of them myself, Depending on what type car I want to build, I either want to see a bigger number on the curved surface of the magnet or larger numbers on the ends, both types can be found. What I like about your magnets is that they match, no need to zap, or spend hours checking dozens of mags, I can generally find a spot on matching pair in less than a few minutes.

Boosted


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## Boosted-Z71 (Nov 26, 2007)

Lenny are there any plans or are you working on any other bodies at this time? 

Just curious

Boosted


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## lenny (Feb 29, 2000)

Boosted-Z71 said:


> Lenny are there any plans or are you working on any other bodies at this time?
> 
> Just curious
> 
> Boosted


yes..


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## Joe65SkylarkGS (Feb 15, 2010)

lenny said:


> yes..


Hahahahahahaha. No response tho!!!! Is the 66 Galaxie back in the running???


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## Ralphthe3rd (Feb 24, 2011)

JoeSkylark, I think you meant '67 Galaxie XL 500 ? 
FYI- I'd sure buy a few of THOSE Bodies if Dash brought them out


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## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

anything new from DASH will be wonderful


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## Boosted-Z71 (Nov 26, 2007)

I took yes as an answer, and thrilled with it

Boosted


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## slotcar58 (Jun 21, 2007)

Has DASH ever thought of releasing some Fray type bodies that sit really low on the chassis and lower the center of gravity? I am on a waiting list right now to get some, there is quite a demand. Dan thanks for all you do for the hobby. I love your new chassis!


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## 60chevyjim (Feb 21, 2008)

Dan more henry j bodys please !! .. even if they come as unpainted kits that would be great too.


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## lenny (Feb 29, 2000)

60chevyjim said:


> Dan more henry j bodys please !! .. even if they come as unpainted kits that would be great too.


that was a really poor seller. seriously


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## Joe65SkylarkGS (Feb 15, 2010)

I dug the Henry J and have a bunch!!!! 

Too bad. 

Great for doing Gassers!!!!!


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## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

60chevyjim said:


> Dan more henry j bodys please !! .. even if they come as unpainted kits that would be great too.


might ask Tom Stumph if he has any


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## LDThomas (Nov 30, 1999)

"Lenny", please PM me. I have a couple of pictures of a new Dash chassis I bought that I am sure you would like to see.

Thanks.


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## TK Solver (Mar 18, 2004)

Thread topic reminder: Basic AW T-Jet Ultra-G Questions


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

TK Solver said:


> Thread topic reminder: Basic AW T-Jet Ultra-G Questions


Thanks TK...I was about to post the same thing.

Getting back to the question I posed...



Grandcheapskate said:


> Hi Guys,
> I would appreciate if someone can verify my measurements. I want to buy some O-Rings with a larger OD than the stock front tires on these red/blue chassis. I see some that might fit the bill on McMaster-Carr but don't want to buy if my measurements are off.
> 
> The one measurement that is real critial is the OD of the rim as that would then be the ID of the tire. Here is what I get as measurements on the stock chassis:
> ...


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## LDThomas (Nov 30, 1999)

Sorry "lenny", Hobby Talk will not allow me to respond to your PM. Got email?


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## lenny (Feb 29, 2000)

LDThomas said:


> Sorry "lenny", Hobby Talk will not allow me to respond to your PM. Got email?


[email protected]


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## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

*share*



LDThomas said:


> "Lenny", please PM me. I have a couple of pictures of a new Dash chassis I bought that I am sure you would like to see.
> 
> Thanks.


why not share them with all of us?

.


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## Joe65SkylarkGS (Feb 15, 2010)

alpink said:


> why not share them with all of us?
> 
> .



AMEN I like seeing fancy work myself!!!!


Show us dude!! :freak:


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## TK Solver (Mar 18, 2004)

Clowns...


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## Joe65SkylarkGS (Feb 15, 2010)

LDThomas said:


> "Lenny", please PM me. I have a couple of pictures of a new Dash chassis I bought that I am sure you would like to see.
> 
> Thanks.


Post your pics here bud. 

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?p=4754793#post4754793


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## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

*on track*



TK Solver said:


> Thread topic reminder: Basic AW T-Jet Ultra-G Questions


I learned and bookmarked a good source of O-rings,
found out that some folks want Henry-J's,
and they were poor sellers,
some chassis out of the box run real well,
some chassis out of the box cannot be made to run at all,
grandcheapskate(Joe) is a GOOD businessman,
others that had the opportunity didn't pony up,
some folks want to have fun,
some folks want to have control,
some folks have narrow focus
and
some folks don't value clowns!!!!
my Mother and one of my Brothers are PROFESSIONAL CLOWNS, trained and bonded and do as much community service as they do paid gigs.

" I've looked at Clowns from both sides now, 
from up and down and still, somehow. 
it's Clown's illusions I recall. 
I really don't know Clowns ..... at all ! "

. :wave: .


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