# Springs on a straight axle.



## FOSTBITTEN (Aug 1, 2013)

I have been messing around with this a bit. I take a shoe spring or a brush spring and put the axle through it before sliding the axle into the frame. So it is between the hub & frame. I am using the AW nail head design so I slide the fixed wheel on w/enough tension to barely touch the spring to take up the slop. I was told once by my Uncle when I was a kid "the only thing slop does in a racecar is cause trouble". So I had to think about this for a while. And I thought putting tension on it that I can adjust quickly and easily will do the trick so far it seems to help a lot with tuning. 

I only do it with one side because all I have is an oval setup right now, but it just seems like it makes a difference. Right now I have been doing it on left side only but I may try both sides. One short spring and one tall spring or 2 shorts. Two talls will more than likely be too wide. Still fooling around with it.


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## cwbam (Feb 8, 2010)

Any photos?

Very interesting


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## FOSTBITTEN (Aug 1, 2013)

I don't know if these will be the best photos but, I use my tablet & it's resolution could be better. The springs are hard to see as it is. But the spring is there on the axle between the hub & frame rail. 

If I switch sides it will make the car loose. But with the spring on the left side it seems to help a lot. But I should say though my track is afx with the high banks so on a flat track it may be junk. Or on the right side may work better on a flat track. I do know that wider wheel spacing in the front makes the car less prone to oversteer.


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## slotking (May 27, 2008)

I used to the same, but used 1 on each side


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## Grampa Ho (Feb 25, 2009)

I use them on the right front to add to to small but powerfull downforce it "appears" to have on the weight of the front area. to combat the looseness, I make sure the better tire is on the outside also. even though getting your stance is set more to the inside, I like the idea of pulling off the corners in such a way that sometimes it washes out. The wider set up to the right, as I too race only on left turn tracks, seems to help on exit. Might make a difference on entrance also but, I usually plow it in too deep anyway to notice. LOL. 
Keep in mind that different clubs, and the overall width is within the guidelines for that car or class.
It's all scale and fun to tweak these things. 
Rich


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

Yes! The fabled spring trick of yore. Been there and done that. IMHO; shims, bushings or both provide a more stable set-up. 

Along the lines of your wise Uncles statement regarding looseness; depending on how you set the front axle up, the spring makes the running clearance either non-existant (preloaded), or somewhat ambiguous (floating)? Neither set up reliably maintains either the desired staggered or neutral settings ... but obviously it's a heck of a lot better than the rattling stock slop-fest. 

I've also seen spring tangs grind or catch in either the chassis rails or the back of the hub. They're really not designed to control thrust or diminish rotational friction. Not to mention that the ID of the spring and the OD of the axle dont relate in a complimentary fashion... a hot dog down a hallway if you will. This encourages canting of the spring against the axle and another potential friction.

While using the spring set up provides a notable handling improvement, a properly shimmed free, wheeling set up, will maintain your stagger with no added pre-load, or additional frictions, that the motor has to overcome. When shimming or bushing, inspect and polish (1200) both the center bore and side thrust surfaces. Double check that you have provided enough running clearance.

Good luck!


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## FOSTBITTEN (Aug 1, 2013)

I wonder why it was I didn't think I was re-inventing wheel with this idea? 

As far as the preloading idea, that was the main reason I first did springs instead of shims or spacers. To "quickly adjust" the spacing. I know the shims & spacers are far more reliable. 

Even with only turning left though having the spring on the left side only the spring really doesn't do much other than make more space between the frame and hub. I don't think it really compresses much if at all. I run the free-wheeling hub on the outside too. Thinking that it will turn faster so it should be on the outside.

I also think this spring is acting like a brake when it is compressed. By adding friction to wheel when the spring is on the right side. Thus making the car loose when it is in the center of the corner. My track is a banked true oval.


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## leonus (Dec 17, 2013)

Not being a smarty pants or anything, but why not just push the wheels closer together to remove the "slop"?


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

A fair question Leonus. There is no simple answer.

Not all wheels, tires, axles, chassis or bodies are created equally. Once you move beyond the factory intent of the model and begin to personalize the looks, or outright modify the intent of the design; then you have to start thinking out side the box and begin problem solving.

For a few quick examples: 

What about mounting wheels that arent bored all the way through ... like Vincent "Fuchs" or "Stahls". You cant let them to wander around like a "Brio" static wooden train set. Ironically not unlike the Aurora/Auto World finishing nail set up that Fost is currently experimenting with.

What about skinny hubs under wide bodies? You wouldnt want to push them all the way on and leave a mile of axle hanging out in space and the hubs goofed all the way out of sight in the fender well.

What about skinny hubs under a skinny body, where you have to back space away from rubbing on the pick up shoes? Without shims you might have two drive ability problems.

Consider that: racers are generally looking for a maximum width setting that plops through their tech gauge :modelers may be trying to execute a look or stance from a particular period or styling. Some try and do both. Others are just trying to get their model to perform adequately. 

In Fosts case, he's experimenting an inward or down ward chassis stagger on a banked oval for a number of reasons. The concept is deeply rooted in roundy racing and engineering and therefore intriguing at the scale level as well.


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## FOSTBITTEN (Aug 1, 2013)

Thank you Bill for the help. Leonus what I am looking at trying to do is to have the left front wheel "hook". Kinda like the pole in tether-ball. By making the left wheel stick out further away from the chassis than the right side.

i must be doing something somewhat right I setup a simple course out of some spare track. And the left turn section was great but, the car was really sketchy on the rights. Also the lap times are lower & more importantly more consistent. I have also staggered the tires. And a few other tweaks I may not mention just yet. (Never know who is lurking about)


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## ParkRNDL (Mar 20, 2002)

heh. i have a couple AFX chassis in the basement from back when i was in middle school. i used the front wheels and axle off a Tyco HP2 on them, and Tyco HP2 pickup springs to keep the whole mess centered. don't remember how it helped or hurt handling; now i may have to go revisit that just for giggles...

--rick


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