# downforce-tyco-tomy



## sidecar53 (May 14, 2006)

*downforce-tyco-tomy???*

Hi, guys. We're rebuilding our aging 6-lane Tyco track and I'm told that only Tomy makes 18 inch radius turns and that Tomy has less downforce than Tyco. Is this true and if so, is it extremely noticeable? We only need 18 inch radius in 1 spot (180 degrees) so if the difference is not too extreme we may be able to go Tomy with adapters. We just need to know before buying (expensive little devils). Thanks for the read and any and all responses. Rick @ Rose City Motorplex


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## Hornet (Dec 1, 2005)

Check with Grandcheapskate Rick,i think Joe made some oversize Tyco curves,i'm not positive on that,so i'd check with him


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## vaBcHRog (Feb 19, 2003)

He made 15 inch and 6 inch for TYCO the 18 inchers were Tomy only.

Roger Corrie


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## wm_brant (Nov 21, 2004)

Based on a discussion on another board, there will be Tomy brand 18" turns later this summer. 

Also, if you dig through the thread, there is a discussion of different companies voltage, and the possible impact on grip.

-- Bill


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## TK Solver (Mar 18, 2004)

Wow! That's a heckuva nice thread on that other board. Glad you linked me there.


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

vaBcHRog said:


> He made 15 inch and 6 inch for TYCO the 18 inchers were Tomy only.


 Yes, that is the case. We have made 6" 1/8 and 15" 1/8 curves for Tyco/Mattel which now allow for up to 8 lanes (6-9-12-15). The 18" curves were only produced for Tomy so far, although I would love to do an 18" for Tyco once my inventory of 6" and 15" curves gets reduced.
Also be aware that the newer Mattel track has an improved design, with the only downside being the letter they molded into the track surface.
The other differences I understand between Tyco and Tomy is slot depth (Tomy is a little deeper) and lane spacing (Tyco uses wider, evenly spaced lanes). There is also the slighest difference in track height.
I read the discussion on the other board mentioned above. It is interesting to note that Jim Russel makes a point about how expensive the tooling process is for making track and how long it takes to recoup your investment. I know about this first hand, which is why I wonder why Tomy would want to make their own 18" curve when one is already available. Our motivation for making an 18" curve was that none existed. My motivation in making the Tyco/Mattel 6" and 15" curves was that there is so much Tyco track available, and at some really inexpensive bulk prices, that the cost of adding some 6" and 15" curves would be well worth the cost.
Of course, now that Tomy (and maybe even AW) are going to be producing 18" curves (or so they claim), the chances of us doing more Tomy compatible track is probably nil. Even doing another run of 18" curves is probably no longer feasable. We can not take the chance on producing a product where we could get steamrolled by a large manufacturer.
It would seem that the only place for future expansion of our track offering would be Mattel compatable.

Joe


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## 1976Cordoba (Sep 20, 2000)

Grandcheapskate said:


> It would seem that the only place for future expansion of our track offering would be Mattel compatable.
> 
> Joe


Or you could be the first to offer a 21" Tomy :thumbsup: 

I know I'd buy them.

'doba


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

1976Cordoba said:


> Or you could be the first to offer a 21" Tomy :thumbsup:
> 
> I know I'd buy them.
> 
> 'doba


 Tomy are doing their own 18'' as mentioned above, and looking at 21''. I believe there will be five 18''s in the champcar set coming out this summer.

More and more it looks as if the after-market 18'' curves should have quickly followed by a 21'' and NOT Tyco curves. Now it looks too late.

What I would love is for someone to do a 7.5'' and 10.5'' curve, but I know that will not happen in 2-lane ''toy'' track...


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

Montoya1 said:


> More and more it looks as if the after-market 18'' curves should have quickly followed by a 21'' and NOT Tyco curves. Now it looks too late.
> 
> What I would love is for someone to do a 7.5'' and 10.5'' curve, but I know that will not happen in 2-lane ''toy'' track...


 I've written about this before. The two main obstacles to producing track are cost and warehousing. It costs quite a bit to get a single piece to market and then you need to warehouse thousands of pieces because in order to make it at a reasonable cost, you need to make thousands. And when you're a one or two man operation, the warehouse is your house.
Track does not fly off the shelves like cars. Take a look at your favorite vendor and see how much track they offer. Therefore track sits in inventory a long time.
As I said, I am still surprised the Tyco/Mattel track has not sold out very quickly. The need for the 6" and 15" curves for Tyco track seemed to be a no-brainer - and maybe I'm stubborn, but it still seems like a good idea. If only 500 people in the whole world, in the WHOLE WORLD, would take 8 pieces each, that would deplete enough inventory that newer pieces (like long straights, bigger curves and banked curves) would be designed and hitting the market very quickly. That's really not asking a lot.
I know I could build a Tyco track for a fraction of the cost of a Tomy track because of the bulk pricing on Tyco track.
With both Tomy and AW threatening to make an 18" curve, that would pretty much make our mold useless. It is not our intention to compete, but to compliment. I still shake my head that neither Tomy nor AW approached us to either buy our mold or have us produce the track. Why incur the cost of doing your own design and mold? In fact, it is amazing to me that AW would make it's own track instead of making a deal with Tomy. I just can't see that as being profitable.
With such a small customer base, why would you expend the time, energey and resources to make something that already exists? There are so many new track pieces which could be made, that to remake existing pieces just seems foolish.

Joe


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## ParkRNDL (Mar 20, 2002)

TK Solver said:


> Wow! That's a heckuva nice thread on that other board. Glad you linked me there.


ditto! haven't been to SCI in a while... looks like I have to start keeping up...

--rick


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## 1976Cordoba (Sep 20, 2000)

Grandcheapskate said:


> . . . I still shake my head that neither Tomy nor AW approached us to either buy our mold or have us produce the track. Why incur the cost of doing your own design and mold? In fact, it is amazing to me that AW would make it's own track instead of making a deal with Tomy. I just can't see that as being profitable . . . Joe


Joe --

Have you approached either company yourself and said, "Hey -- I already have that and I'm willing to either sell it to you or produce it for you." ??

If not maybe you should. :thumbsup: 

'doba


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## Grandcheapskate (Jan 5, 2006)

1976Cordoba said:


> Joe --
> 
> Have you approached either company yourself and said, "Hey -- I already have that and I'm willing to either sell it to you or produce it for you." ??
> 
> ...


 I started another thread about Plastic Track, but to answer your question quickly, Scale Auto (and therefore Racemasters) bought some 18" curves when we first offered them (check their website) and I wrote Tom Lowe an e-mail back when I first heard about AW producing a set. So they both know we have the mold and process in place.
Taking another opportunity to contact them may be wise. Although if AW is going to reproduce their own version of Tomy track, maybe one more mold isn't that big a deal. Still seems like an unnecessary waste of resources.

Joe


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