# Whereabouts of full-scale Galileo…?



## Commander Dan (Mar 22, 2001)

Does anyone know where the full-scale Galileo currently resides? Just curious. 

I recently returned form a trip to DC where I went to the Smithsonian and visited the original Enterprise, and it got me thinking about the Galileo.


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## jheilman (Aug 30, 2001)

Scroll through this thread on ASAP.

http://p082.ezboard.com/fpropreplicasfrm63.showMessage?topicID=151.topic


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## ClubTepes (Jul 31, 2002)

jheilman said:


> Scroll through this thread on ASAP.
> 
> http://p082.ezboard.com/fpropreplicasfrm63.showMessage?topicID=151.topic


Not another site to register on !

Can anyone share the info here?


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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

Agreed. I can't get through the front door to that one.


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## CessnaDriver (Apr 27, 2005)

I started that thread two years ago. So going from memory here, so dont hold me to this too much....

In a nutshell, it was in terrible dis-repair (horrible pictures of it rotting on the studio lot back in the day) Private hands got hold of it at some point,I guess someone had it in their yard for a while and several owners later showed up at a Trek Convention in somewhat restored condition, ended up being taken completely apart in an aircraft hanger (someone had a video of this), and pretty much disappeared after that. I forget what city it is thought to be in. But its in that thread somewhere. 

It is obviously back in the hanger of the Enterprise... out there...somewhere. 
Anyways until she reappears someday, that is how I think of her.


Oh yeah, YES she belongs in the Smithsonian next to the Enterprise Shuttle!


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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

Well, we need to track the ol' girl down.


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## X15-A2 (Jan 21, 2004)

The Shuttlecraft is in Ohio, somewhere near Akron I believe. When Roger Heisman owned it (the "front yard" days. See "The Worlds of Star Trek" by David Gerrold) he offered it to the Smithsonian but they didn't want it. They didn't want the other "trek" stuff either but took it and hid it away, except for the big model of the "E". It wasn't until much later when they realized that money could be made with it that they had a re-think. Unfortunately they did not apply the same high standards of restoration to the "E" that they do to their other artifacts.

Now the Shuttlecraft is in private hands, has been stripped of its exterior skin and all its original markings and may never be seen in public again. If only the Smithsonian had a small amount of vision....


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## scotpens (Sep 6, 2003)

CessnaDriver said:


> . . . I guess someone had it in their yard for a while and several owners later showed up at a Trek Convention in somewhat restored condition, ended up being taken completely apart in an aircraft hanger (someone had a video of this), and pretty much disappeared after that.


I'd sure like to get my hands on that video of the somewhat-restored owners being taken completely apart! No wonder they disappeared!

What a difference the pronoun "it" makes!
:tongue:


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## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

If I had a crazy amount of disposable cash I'd love to have a replica built for public display.

That said I'd go the distance and make a replica of a _Galileo_ with exterior and interior that are integrated.  Something like that would be a hit at conventions I'd think.


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## CessnaDriver (Apr 27, 2005)

Warped9 said:


> If I had a crazy amount of disposable cash I'd love to have a replica built for public display.
> 
> That said I'd go the distance and make a replica of a _Galileo_ with exterior and interior that are integrated.  Something like that would be a hit at conventions I'd think.



Problem with doing INT and EXT is the scale was different. 
The studio interior could never fit inside the full size mock up. 

In fact, I dont think you could not even stand up in it. 

But you could fudge it enough to be recognizable inside.
Omit a row of seats in the back, squish up the engine area some. 
Or scale up the size of the whole thing, But I think it would look funny being larger. 


I hope that is what the people that have it are doing is putting in an interior. 

Im guessing the people that have her dont want to be bothered.
I just hope it is not some greedy collector that keeps it private for decades. 
Hoping someday they go public with it all restored. oh well.


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## ham1963 (May 4, 2001)

*I know where it is. It is where all spacecraft end up( think about it) *


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## The-Nightsky (May 10, 2005)

ham1963 said:


> *I know where it is. It is where all spacecraft end up( think about it) *


In our hearts and minds forever???


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## irishtrek (Sep 17, 2005)

Have you tried cloudster.com?


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## El Gato (Jul 15, 2000)

ham1963 said:


> *I know where it is. It is where all spacecraft end up( think about it) *


 Roswell? Area 51?


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## Nova Designs (Oct 10, 2000)

The far side of the Moon?


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## jheilman (Aug 30, 2001)

Sorry, didn't know registering at ASAP would present any problems. A gentleman by the name Bill Krause actually worked on the partial restoration of the Galileo. I know you merely asked the current location of the ship (and this thread didn't definitively answer that), but others may find the historical info of interest. Here are some of his relevant posts from that thread.

8/21/04
In the summer of 1991 a private owner from Akron, Ohio had purchased and shipped the prop from the desert storage lot in Palm Springs to an aircraft hanger in Akron via a flat bed truck. Tom Wilson and myself were hired from the outset to recondition the prop (mainly just the repaint and lettering) - before we had seen the actual state of the craft when it arrived. Upon inspection, it was clear that a total restoration was necessary. It had been stored outside since its release from the studio many years earlier and time, weather and abuse had taken its toll on the mostly wooden prop. It was apparent that several previous restorations had been attempted in areas - but were mainly cosmetic. Luckily - the main framework had been left untouched. 

In September of 1991 - the Galileo began a two-year project to methodically restore her to studio-original condition. The wood framework was stripped and replaced from bow to stern, the metal frame blasted and re-primed, the exterior panels re-cut and mounted in marine-grade plywood, new floorboards installed in the interior. The work was staggering, but necessary - the woodwork was totally decayed and structurally unsound. 

The port side panel (masonite original) from just above the main door all the way back to the stern and just above the port wing/nacelle was left original. The stern was also in fairly good condition with the exception of the impulse engine area which was completely gone along with the roof. The owner had also contracted Gene Winfield (the original builder) to fabricate some new pieces. Two new plexi nacelle domes (clear) and the metal baffle shrouds were received the following year. An hurried attempt to make her presentable for the local convention (LagrangeCon 91) was her last public appearance to my knowledge. 

Work continued on when we moved the craft to its own private hanger at Akron-Canton airport. Both nacelles were constructed almost entirely in steel and extremely heavy. They were transported individually from the main hull and remained that way in the hanger while work progressed. They were designed to be easily removed and replaced and basically slid into position on several steel pins (in the wing root area). The door mechanism was pretty complex and was fabricated from desk parts - mainly the track system for the upper door halves. The lower door/porch was opened by an operator inside using a large steel lever. There was never any intention of building an interior since this almost-full scale prop never had one. Outside of possibly carpeting the floor and dressing the interior wall opposite the hatch, the port side interior was all door mechanism and track. You could not stand upright inside the craft. If one were to be built - that was a later concern. One the trickiest areas to rebuild was the impulse deck - luckily what remained of the delicate lower lip provided enough patterns to reconstruct it. 

By September 1993, the two man team was exhausted and the owner short on funds. The Galileo was was brought back to about 85% completed and a stone's throw from seeing it rolled out in a fresh coat of paint and detailed out with its 1701/7 lettering. We parted company when the owner began discussions with another party interested in purchasing and or finishing it off. It's been 11 years since I've laid eyes on it. I still have the keys to her hanger - on the present whereabouts - Nobody knows.

Picture of Galileo with Ed Miarecki, Bill Krause and Tim Homa.









8/21/04
The ship had been repainted at least twice by previous owners/caretakers and what remained of a hunk of starboard side -original- paneling (found inside the shuttle) was very faded. I will have to do some digging but I had color chips of what we were going to paint it. Tom Wilson and I lived and breathed Galileo for two years and knew every square millimeter and did extensive research. Without having the chips handy, I know the paint was glossy and in three tone gray. A light gray topside, medium gray below the belt-line and a darker gray on the nacelle cowls and globes. The studio also had "dirtied" up the prop prior to filming for that "used" look - notably around the lower nacelles.

8/27/04
There were, of course, many layers of paint and primers that we sanded through and it was difficult to tell what we were truly looking at. Combined with the effect of UV fading we really had to make a best guess effort. The Galileo had been totally repainted for the '86 Anaheim con in a light gray primer. The original starboard Masonite panel that was saved during that restoration was found inside under two inches of sand on the floorboard. It was so faded, even the black lettering was barely visible. We looked for any clues - under protected overhangs - like the wings, impulse deck and undersides of the nacelles. We scraped and sanded and ultimately took a guess against several paint chip samples for comparison. But, since we never were able to get that far as to purchasing the paints - I'm afraid I'm all out of hard facts on that one.

9/8/04
Youngstown, Ohio was the last place I knew her to be.


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## scotpens (Sep 6, 2003)

ham1963 said:


> *I know where it is. It is where all spacecraft end up( think about it) *


The Bermuda Triangle?


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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

Hmm....well, frankly, after the successful campaign to rescue the ambulance from the Firefly episode "Ariel" from certain doom (it now awaits restoration in Bakersfield), I'm of a mood to try the same with the Galileo, especially in light of what sounds like wanton neglect on whoever has her now.

Not sure about the feasibility of bringing the thing to Denver, but....


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## jheilman (Aug 30, 2001)

We don't really know if it has been neglected. For all we know, it's sitting in an obscure warehouse fully restored and cherished by the current owners. We may never know.


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## ham1963 (May 4, 2001)

The Galileo is in the same place as the Ark from the Raiders of the Ark :lol:


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## Steve Mavronis (Oct 14, 2001)

jheilman said:


> Picture of Galileo with Ed Miarecki, Bill Krause and Tim Homa.


By what factor would the exterior prop have to be scaled up to fit a full size interior? Excuse my question since this has probably already been determined. The exterior body does look rather small with the 3 of them standing right next to it. Looks like their heads would hit the ceiling if they were on their knees and even then they would have to be bent over some!


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## CessnaDriver (Apr 27, 2005)

Looking at this picture from the cloudster page, A factor of two may not be too far off!


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## Seaview (Feb 18, 2004)

Cmdr. Dan,
Why not scratch-build a 1:1 scale duplicate of the Galileo-7 as large as it should be in "real-life", as opposed to a sound studio prop built for forced-perspective camera angles? It would be a worthwhile undertaking and a TRUE "labor of love".


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

THATS A RELIEF!! I thought I used it in my PELLET STOVE last winter!


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## Steve Mavronis (Oct 14, 2001)

Hey I hope this is related but check out this page:

http://www.startrekman.us/pages/3/index.htm

Look at the shuttlecraft flight deck model. I've never seen these angles before. To me, he 3/4 side view doesn't look so forced perspective as others have mentioned it was in past discussions. Richard Datin who's page this is worked on the Enterprise models from TOS. Use the navigation links at the top of his page to see his other sections and interestesting behind the scenes info!


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

As you can see in the above photo, Ed Miarecki had already started the paint job on the exterior. Here is a b&w photo someone else had posted at another site of the finished and restored _Galileo_ shuttle complete with "full restoration" paint job.


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## CessnaDriver (Apr 27, 2005)

Wow. I had no idea that the K-7 station was based on actual engineering concepts at the time. Cool.


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## X15-A2 (Jan 21, 2004)

Mr. Datin got that image of the Douglas station concept from my web site:

http://www.cloudster.com/RealHardware/SIVBStage/Models/ModelsTop.htm

I'm a little miffed that he did not credit the source. Oh well. Check the above link to see additional photos of it and other Douglas concept models.


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## Richard Compton (Nov 21, 2000)

Little off topic, but I've always wondered, what's Datin like today? Is he some old fogey that thinks everyone bugging him is half crazy but he humors them and stuff? Or is really easy going and into the stuff?


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## X15-A2 (Jan 21, 2004)

My understanding from those who have corresponded with him is that he is a nice guy. However people need to remember that he is over 80 years old now and just not up to dealing with all the questions and other queries that people send him.


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## Steve Mavronis (Oct 14, 2001)

I only left him a webpage comment thanking him for the rare shuttlecraft hangar bay (off center) model photo that I had never seen before!


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## irishtrek (Sep 17, 2005)

If I recall Datin has passed away.
Yo, Trekace if there is supposed to be an image in you post on this thread it don't show up around these parts.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

Steve Mavronis said:


> By what factor would the exterior prop have to be scaled up to fit a full size interior? Excuse my question since this has probably already been determined. The exterior body does look rather small with the 3 of them standing right next to it. Looks like their heads would hit the ceiling if they were on their knees and even then they would have to be bent over some!


It would have to be about 31-32 feet long to reasonably appear like the original inside and out. To fit the interior exactly as built would take about 32-34 feet.

1.5 times would make it about 31.5 feet, you could trim off a couple of feet from the first cabin by taking an unnoticable 6 inches off of 4 of the 4 foot wide sections, getting it down to 31-32 feet instead of 32-34 feet.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

Richard Compton said:


> Little off topic, but I've always wondered, what's Datin like today? Is he some old fogey that thinks everyone bugging him is half crazy but he humors them and stuff? Or is really easy going and into the stuff?


A little of both.



X15-A2 said:


> My understanding from those who have corresponded with him is that he is a nice guy. However people need to remember that he is over 80 years old now and just not up to dealing with all the questions and other queries that people send him.


True. He's pretty much answered almost any question that could be answered based on what he remembers in some excellent interviews I think IDICpage did for Star Trek magazine(? or STCommunicator?). After reading everything I could I contacted him.

Like most of us there are some things he remembers quite vividly and others he remembers nothing about. 

He remembered, for example, even the brand name of the lights he used on the K-7(I hadn't asked about such minutae, he offered the info as an aside) and that he used craft store stencils for the lettering. But he didn't remember ever making any hanger bays on the bottom center section, he even suggested that quite firmly that if they were there they were on the original they were probably added by the on-staff TOS artists.

While that's possible he also didn't remember noticing them even though he helped with controlling and positioning the miniature for the filming of the episode. There definitely was at least one, and there was a number 3 next to one.

But just like lots of stuff all of us have done, not everything is remembered equally.

I read and studied everything I could before corresponding with him and think there is little more that might come out that hasn't been asked in interviews and on the net(do a search on the K-7 in this forum).

Even so who can know everything that has been asked of someone and absolutely avoid repeating questions or being an annoyance?

The man is a tremendous artist and a great guy, and I sincerely hope he's enjoying his well deserved retirement.


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

Mr. Datin is very much still with us.

The image worked when I first put it up. It was borrowed from another site, so I will see what I can do to restore it.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

irishtrek said:


> If I recall Datin has passed away.
> Yo, Trekace if there is supposed to be an image in you post on this thread it don't show up around these parts.


Where exactly did you get this info?


^^^^^^^^^^^
Nevermind. Trek Ace answered my question. Thought maybe something happened in the last week or so I hadn't heard of as I've been busy at work a lot lately.


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## Steve Mavronis (Oct 14, 2001)

Trek Ace said:


> Mr. Datin is very much still with us.


Yes, I just got a reply from him this morning with a simple thanks for the webpage form comment that I left him on Thursday.


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## irishtrek (Sep 17, 2005)

Ok my mistake, I do recall hearing that someone that worked on TOS passed away a couple of years ago.


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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

Matt Jefferies, perhaps?


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## irishtrek (Sep 17, 2005)

That was the one, thank you for refreshing my memory.


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## pagni (Mar 20, 1999)

Lost Wah Chang a couple of years ago too...
: (


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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

Slight twist: Does anyone have any hard information on where and when the shuttlecraft was originally built?


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## Richard Compton (Nov 21, 2000)

AMT built it early in the first season.


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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

I know that. I want specifics. _Where_ did they build it? _When_ was it delivered? And when did Matt Jefferies do those schematics of the thing in relation to when the thing finally arrived at Desilu?


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## Richard Compton (Nov 21, 2000)

It was built in a warehouse in south Pheonix and trucked in. They delivered it on Nov. 17 1966 and Jefferies drew up schematics that were completed on Dec. 4th.

I just made that up though.


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## Atemylunch (Jan 16, 2006)

> It was built in a warehouse in south Pheonix and trucked in. They delivered it on Nov. 17 1966 and Jefferies drew up schematics that were completed on Dec. 4th.


You have no idea how much fun you could have with that joke. 
Then you would have to be a Phoenix native(or long time resident) to really enjoy it.


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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

The weird thing is that he's probably not far off the mark.


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## Richard Compton (Nov 21, 2000)

Atemylunch said:


> You have no idea how much fun you could have with that joke.
> Then you would have to be a Phoenix native(or long time resident) to really enjoy it.


 I lived there for a year....when I was five. Why, is it like gangland in S. Pheonix or something?

Isn't there some kind of Pheonix connection? I thought I remembered something about that with the Making of Star Trek book...

edit> I just found this on wikipedia: "Most homes were built by the homeowners themselves using adobe and wood, with construstion methods that fail to meet building codes." That's not what you meant is it? Because that'd be pretty funny if the Galileo was built out of adobe.


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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

Got the answer I was lookin' fer...



> [BJO TRIMBLE] The original shuttle was built on the lot. I know that a mess of people keep claiming they made some Trek item off-lot in their own studio, etc, but in the early days that just wasn't true due to severe union problems as well as strict budget hassles. There was just no way that a TV series could afford to hire someone in Ohio or Phoenix or Michigan to build something, then ship it to LA, etc. Just not possible. I think that Desilu used Paramount's set-building people to make the shuttlecraft but I can't guarantee that. Same way I can't tell you about the exact dates because I am math dyslexic and ANY numbers are a mystery to me.


So my initial hunch was correct. AMT designed the thing, but it was built locally (in which case, delivery date is rather irrelevant; it was already on the lot the whole time).


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## Atemylunch (Jan 16, 2006)

> I lived there for a year....when I was five. Why, is it like gangland in S. Pheonix or something?


Yes it is. But 40 years ago. I think it was a diferent story. 



> Isn't there some kind of Pheonix connection? I thought I remembered something about that with the Making of Star Trek book...


I read that to. If memory serves they said something about the company in Phoenix didn't make a dead line for a shuttle. So the idea for the transporters was used insted. I think it was for the pilot.
I'm sure someone will post the quote.


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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

The transporters were dreamed up because landing a twenty-three story tall ship on a weekly basis on a television budget would be damn near impossible. AMT wasn't even in the picture when that decision was made.


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## X15-A2 (Jan 21, 2004)

Bjo is quite wrong about where and under what circumstances the Shuttlecraft mockup was built. It was built in Phoenix. Obviously she hasn't seen the pictures of it under construction in the shops there (same place the car for "The Man from U.N.C.L.E." was made).


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## Richard Compton (Nov 21, 2000)

But Charlie Chan says, "She number one fan."!


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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

She was also a frequent visitor to the set at the time, and has easy contact with those who were directly involved with the thing. She either has direct knowledge or is just one level removed.


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## MGagen (Dec 18, 2001)

Captain April said:


> So my initial hunch was correct. AMT designed the thing, but it was built locally (in which case, delivery date is rather irrelevant; it was already on the lot the whole time).


 Not so fast... Let's look at what she actually said:



> *Bjo:*
> The original shuttle was built on the lot. I know that a mess of people keep claiming they made some Trek item off-lot in their own studio, etc, but in the early days that just wasn't true due to severe union problems as well as strict budget hassles.


 She's assuming it was built on the lot because union rules and bugetary constraints made it impossible to do otherwise. But this is not true. They _did_ occasionally hire ousiders to produce things for the show in their own studios. A case in point: Wah Chang was hired to create the Tricorders and Communicators, as well as update the Phasers, even though it was against the union rules.



> *Bjo:*
> There was just no way that a TV series could afford to hire someone in Ohio or Phoenix or Michigan to build something, then ship it to LA, etc. Just not possible.


 But we know that was not the case. They didn't _hire_ anyone to build the shuttlecraft. They traded the rights to a model kit for it so they would have _zero cash outlay_.



> *Bjo:*
> I think that Desilu used Paramount's set-building people to make the shuttlecraft but I can't guarantee that.


 She also thinks it was built by Paramount's staff. A point which is directly contradicted by several sources inside the production (including Jefferies himself) who all say it was built by AMT.

I have great respect for Bjo. I've met her. She's a charming woman who has done great things in ST fandom. But she is not in a postion to know the answer to this question. Others, who were in a postion to know, say AMT built it in Phoenix.

M.


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

What Mr. Gagen has stated above is absolutely correct. The shuttle was built in Phoenix as previously stated by others. Both the shuttle prop and miniature were constructed by AMT in partial exchange for rights to the model kit license through the LCA. Mrs. Trimble was correct about the union conflict with outside commissioned work, but since this was not hired out, it fell outside of those rules. Even though it was not constructed as per Matt Jefferies' original design, it was not "hated by all" as she may have commented. Although it was a compromise between expense (time) and construction methods, it was still an attractive, functional design that totally satisfied the script requirements and was used throughout the series' run.

A similar agreement was used by AMT when negotiating the Klingon ship license later on when the licensing agent went from the LCA to Paramount.


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## Atemylunch (Jan 16, 2006)

Anybody know where in Phoenix?

If I can get an address, I'll at least get a pic of the building.


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## Lee Staton (May 13, 2000)

Hey everyone! I just started following this thread and I can add a little bit. I've always maintained written correspondence with model companies since my youth in the mid-1960s with Aurora. In the early 1970's, I began a years-long correspondence with the Trek model producers, AMT. This was back when they were doing the K-7 Station and the Bridge and Romulan ship kits. I used to provide film clip slides purchased from Lincoln Enterprises for them to use as reference (though their kits showed disregard for reference, they usually made prototypes that were detailed and then cut corners until the kit was cheap enough to produce, thinking no one would notice). I used to get test shots and provide feedback--which was mostly ignored. But I kept doing it to get the early kits! I even toured their Troy, MI, plant in 1975 and watch white Enterprise kits come off the line.

My three different contacts there over the years all attested to their company building the shuttlecraft. I believe it was a shop that did car customizing and created show cars they made kits from, though I could be mis-remembering.

I continued following the Trek kits when, during Star Trek-TMP, AMT was owned by Lesney/Matchbox. Yes, I got test shots of those kits as well. When AMT was sold to Ertl I found a contact there and continued being a Trek model groupie. I seem to remember that when Star Trek-The Next Generation was starting Ertl/AMT was asked whether they could produce a full-scale shuttlecraft per the studio's plans with wild walls so it could be an interior/exterior set/prop. AMT did not have a connection to that old shop anymore, so it didn't happen. I *suspected* AMT might have been asked because original Trek producer Bob Justman was involved with ST-TNG and may have remembered the sweet deal they had before and wanted to replicate it.

I don't state the above as a perfectly recalled fact, since I had occasion to meet my Ertl/AMT contact at big hobby shows and we talked about such stuff. I have kept all my correspondence over the years (yes, all the way back to the early 1970's) and don't have this in writing to quote to you.

So...I offer it as a tidbit instead of the cool shuttlecraft that never was. ST-TNG never had the budget to build a good shuttlecraft, refurbishing the one from ST-V and making the small, boxy El-Baz (could you tell it was made from sheet plywood with car seats in it? I sure could).

If anyone would like me to drag out old files to share at a WonderFest, I'd be happy to share the kit history.

Lee


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

I don't recall the name of Gene's shop in Phoenix, exactly, but I believe it was "AMT Speed and Custom Division" or something like that. I would have to dig through boxes of old financial records and work orders to find it. That's just too daunting a task for me right now. A phone call would probably do the trick, if I can find the number.


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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

If we can get something definitive out of this, that'll be fine by me.


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## Richard Compton (Nov 21, 2000)

Trek Ace said:


> I don't recall the name of Gene's shop in Phoenix, exactly, but I believe it was "AMT Speed and Custom Division" or something like that. I would have to dig through boxes of old financial records and work orders to find it. That's just too daunting a task for me right now. A phone call would probably do the trick, if I can find the number.


 Who's Gene?

By the way, what are you going to do with all that stuff when you die?


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

Richard Compton said:


> Who's Gene?


Gene Winfield was the project supervisor for the construction and delivery of the _Galileo_ shuttlecraft prop at the AMT shop in Phoenix.



> By the way, what are you going to do with all that stuff when you die?


I'll haunt it, I suppose.


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## MGagen (Dec 18, 2001)

I'm happy to be able to add a little more first hand information about the creation of the Shuttlecraft set piece.

I was recently in touch with Gene Winfield, the famed custom car designer who actually built the full scale Galileo. He confirmed for me in no uncertain terms that the exterior piece was constructed under his supervision at AMT's custom shop in Phoenix Arizona and trucked to Desilu in Hollywood.

Some other tidbits he offered:

His original construction deadline was 30 days. He told Jefferies that there was no way he could build the design he was given in anything like that amount of time. He then obtained permission to simplify the design using flat panels with a few curved details added.

The actual construction took more like 3 months.

He also built the interior set. The wild wall sections were 4 feet wide.

The interior roof level was planned much lower, but the studio instructed him to raise it to allow the actors to stand upright. This came about while the set was still being built. (This last bit is especially gratifying to me since it confirms a theory I put forward long ago to explain the unnaturally low chairs, too blunt front angle and lack of sight lines throught the front windows.)

I am still in communication with Mr. Winfield and should have more to share in a few weeks. Specifically, I hope to settle how far along the design was when Jefferies gave it to AMT and what specific refiniments are Winfield's contribution.

M.


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## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

CessnaDriver said:


> Problem with doing INT and EXT is the scale was different.
> The studio interior could never fit inside the full size mock up.
> 
> In fact, I dont think you could not even stand up in it.
> ...


No problem. I'd just use the very plans I'm presently drawing up.


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## Four Mad Men (Jan 26, 2004)

MGagen said:


> The wild wall sections were 4 feet wide.
> 
> The interior roof level was planned much lower, but the studio instructed him to raise it to allow the actors to stand upright.


Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding. 

Um... sorry, this satisfies some issues I've had over my shuttle work. Please go about your business. Thanks Mark.


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## MGagen (Dec 18, 2001)

You're welcome, 4MM. I thought both you and Phil might find that tidbit interesting.

Stay tuned...

M.


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## Richard Compton (Nov 21, 2000)

DUDE! Ask him about the chairs! Specifically ask if they are completely scratchbuilt, cast off a found chair, or are actually found chairs. If they are real chairs or cast off real chairs, what are they (maybe off fishing boats?)? This is my one big question about the shuttle, among others I can think of. Also, the way they are mounted to the floor...is that custom or did they come like that, etc. Please! I would be so grateful.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

MGagen said:


> I'm happy to be able to add a little more first hand information about the creation of the Shuttlecraft set piece.
> 
> I was recently in touch with Gene Winfield, the famed custom car designer who actually built the full scale Galileo. He confirmed for me in no uncertain terms that the exterior piece was constructed under his supervision at AMT's custom shop in Phoenix Arizona and trucked to Desilu in Hollywood.
> 
> ...


 
Fantastic info MGagen! Thanks a ton! Especially on confirming the speculation about the wild wall sections being a standard 4 feet.

If you could ask him a specific question about the back cabin interior starboard wall it would be appreciated.

I agree with Phil that in a couple of shots of Scotty electrifying the hull, the rear cabin starboard wall looks way deeper then 4 feet.

However there are background shots in another episode in which it looks clear that the rear cabin rear wall(the one with the three cylinders) is nowhere near as deep.

To me it looks like the interior set's second cabin's back wall was usually set only four feet back from the second cabin's front wall. Maybe it was a few inches deeper then that as seen behind Kirk in some shots from "The Managerie" but certainly not as deep as shown in some shots from Galileo Seven.

It appears to me that the second cabin's interior wasn't intended to be shown as deeper then 4 feet.

I'm guessing that the back wall of the rear cabin was moved out of the way during filming of that "electrifying" scene to get the camera in the right position.

Please ask him if the rear cabin's side walls - when not wild - were ever meant to be shown as longer then four feet. It looks to me like they intended to suggest a second cabin only four feet deep.

I'm guessing the second cabin was never intended to look as deep as seen from that scene in "The Galileo Seven", but that is just a guess and god knows I've been wrong lots of times before. It wouldn't be the first time. 

The significance of the the depth of the second cabin wall is that if we can learn that depth exactly and then add it to every other piece of info we know about the other four foot walls, the obvious sizing of the interconnecting wall and it's door, etc. we can be reasonably sure we know the exact length dimensions of the original interior set.

If we add six inches to each of the forward cabin's 42" sections, our Galileo Project drawings and FourMadMen's 3D model would be virtually an exact fore to aft representation of the original interior(except for one extra cylinder and one interconnection wall indentation).

Though yourself and most of us agreed on the 48" being the right wall partition size about the only way to get the ship's exterior under 32 feet long was to trim 6" from each first cabin partion.

Thanks to your discussion though we all know for certain virtually all of the dimensions of the original interior set to within a couple of inches!!!

We now know with almost absolute certainty how big an external ship would have have to have been to fit the interior, and any modifications necessary to get her down from a tad over 33 feet to a bit under 31 are clearly understood and if executed properly, probably not even noticable.

Thanks a million, MGagen!


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## MGagen (Dec 18, 2001)

I'll be glad to ask specific questions of Mr. Winfield. Just post them here. It may take a while to get around to all of them. I think it is important not to send him into geekish fanboy overload. 

The chairs were on my list already. I'll ask about the aft compartment as well. I expect the answer will be that the dividing wall was wild as well and they just repositioned it as needed. In effect, the interior could appear as long as needed -- sort of like a giant accordion.

Any other niggling details we'd like to nail down?

M.


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## Griffworks (Jun 24, 2002)

Very kewel info you've managed to find, Mark! You should write up an article to send to Greg Tyler of TrekPlace.com. I think it's an invaluable resource for Trek fans.


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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

MGagen said:


> I'll be glad to ask specific questions of Mr. Winfield. Just post them here. It may take a while to get around to all of them. I think it is important not to send him into geekish fanboy overload.
> 
> The chairs were on my list already. I'll ask about the aft compartment as well. I expect the answer will be that the dividing wall was wild as well and they just repositioned it as needed. In effect, the interior could appear as long as needed -- sort of like a giant accordion.
> 
> ...


Just some dates and some details about the design process.


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## X15-A2 (Jan 21, 2004)

I realize that this has been covered in other threads somewhere but I would be interested to know what aircraft the rear gear strut came off off. Mr Winfield may not know and may have never known, not if it simply came from a junk yard somewhere but on the off-chance, please ask him if he remembers.


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## dgtrekker (Jul 23, 2001)

CessnaDriver said:


> several owners later showed up at a Trek Convention in somewhat restored condition


I saw it at that convention, it was at Disneyland just before Star Trek 4 came out and they were charging a $1 (towards restoration) to go in and see it up close...now if I can remember what I did with those pictures.


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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

Well?


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## Lloyd Collins (Sep 25, 2004)

Any pictures yet?


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## dgtrekker (Jul 23, 2001)

Well unfortunately I moved into a new house about a year ago and I have two HUGE boxes of pictures and I mean HUGE and they are full of 23 years of kids and vacations! I am having a clean up project over Labor Day and they are on my PRIORITY find list...when I find them I WILL post!


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## Tony Hardy (Oct 23, 2002)

*Galileo Restoration Pics*

Okay, I'm trying to attach pics of the Galileo undergoing restoration in 1992 (If memory serves). These pics were taken at a Trek convention in Cleveland. It was a rainy day and they had the old girl under a tent so it wouldn't get wet. Portions of the prop had been cut away (due to rotting) and reconstructed. The most disturbing thing to me though is that they had painted over the original paint and all of the markings, which could still be seen (vaguely) through the new layer of paint. The engines had been detached and we're laying seperately on the ground. They had been stripped of paint & markings as well. Gene Winfield was present at this show and did a great slide presentation on the original construction of this legendary prop. I shot video too, which I believe I still have. If the pics don't post, just email me. I'll be happy to send them to anyone who wants them.

Tony Hardy


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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

Send them to me, I'll get 'em posted.


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## warren z (Aug 24, 2006)

*shuttle craft*

If you go to www. cloudster .com you can see pictures of the shuttle craft in unflattering condition along with information about it.


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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

Here are the aforementioned pics, in no particular order...










































To be continued...


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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)




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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

Gotta love the fuzzy dice...


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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)




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## Lloyd Collins (Sep 25, 2004)

That is a fantastic collection of photos. It still has a grace to it. Thanks for the photos.


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## Commander Dan (Mar 22, 2001)

So, without reviewing this entire thread, has it been determined where she is today?

...


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

MGagen said:


> I'll be glad to ask specific questions of Mr. Winfield. Just post them here. It may take a while to get around to all of them. I think it is important not to send him into geekish fanboy overload.
> 
> The chairs were on my list already. I'll ask about the aft compartment as well. I expect the answer will be that the dividing wall was wild as well and they just repositioned it as needed. In effect, the interior could appear as long as needed -- sort of like a giant accordion.
> 
> ...


Great!

Please ask him the following: *were the second - rear cabin's side walls - when not wild - were ever meant to be shown as longer then four feet?*

Based on shots of the back wall of the second cabin (where it met the inside starboard wall) seen behind Kirk from the first episode of "The Managerie," it looks to me like they intended to suggest a second cabin only four feet deep.

I agree with Phil that in a couple of shots in "The Galileo Seven" of Scotty electrifying the hull, the rear cabin starboard wall looks way deeper then 4 feet.

But there are background shots in "The Menagerie" in which it looks clear that the rear cabin rear wall(the one with the three cylinders) is nowhere near as deep.

To me it looks like the interior set's second cabin's back wall was usually set only four feet back from the second cabin's front wall, a standard partition size just like the first cabin's 48 inch partitions.

Shots from "The Managerie" certainly establish it as not as deep as shown in some shots from Galileo Seven.

It appears to me that the second cabin's interior wasn't intended to be shown as deeper then 4 feet.

I'm guessing that the back wall of the rear cabin was moved out of the way during filming of that "electrifying" scene to get the camera in the right position.

*Also, I second Phil's question about the rear landing gear. Would love to know for sure what aircraft it came from.*


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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

Commander Dan said:


> So, without reviewing this entire thread, has it been determined where she is today?
> 
> ...


Best informed guess is somewhere in Akron, Ohio.

Somehow, I suspect someone with a shuttlecraft in his garage will have a certain level of notoriety around town.


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## scotpens (Sep 6, 2003)

I imagine a few people who aren't Star Trek-literate have happened by and said something like, "Damned weirdest-looking RV I've ever seen!"


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

X15-A2 said:


> I realize that this has been covered in other threads somewhere but I would be interested to know what aircraft the rear gear strut came off off. Mr Winfield may not know and may have never known, not if it simply came from a junk yard somewhere but on the off-chance, please ask him if he remembers.


Hi Phil!!!

I just came across some concrete answers to the above and another question you've brought up before about the shuttlecraft.

I just received a copy of "The Ships of Star Trek" by James Van Hise.

It has an extensive piece in it on the Galileo and an interview he did with Gene Winfield.

There is also many very clear pics of the Galileo being constructed in his AMT Phoenix workshop. A couple of the pics I haven't seen before, all of them are clearer then any of the ones I've seen on the net, even though they are heavily screened.

In it James asked him where the landing gear came from.

Mr. Winfield said he bought it from a surplus aircraft parts yard, but can't remember what kind of aircraft it was from(maybe since the interview he's remembered and MGagen can still ask him about that).

But also of note: Winston said he did indeed make the seats for the shuttlecraft as well as some of the panels from scratch, per the directions of Matt Jeffries.

So we know unequivocally now that you were right about the seats being made from scratch for the show. There are no "Burke" sea fishing or other mass produced style of chairs out there that they used for the seats. They were "seven" of a kind... 

Hope this info is of interest.


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## scotpens (Sep 6, 2003)

I assume you mean Gene _Winfield_?

BTW, do you know your post got cut off in mid-se


ADDENDUM: It looks like you fixed it. Either that or it was complete all along and part of my brain is missing.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

scotpens said:


> I assume you mean Gene _Winfield_?
> 
> BTW, do you know your post got cut off in mid-se
> 
> ...


Yep! To both questions.

I was trying to bang out the message while at work and kept getting interupted but didn't want to have to start over so I stopped a couple of times and went back and added the rest via editing, as well as fixed the snafu on the name.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

Richard Compton said:


> DUDE! Ask him about the chairs! Specifically ask if they are completely scratchbuilt, cast off a found chair, or are actually found chairs. If they are real chairs or cast off real chairs, what are they (maybe off fishing boats?)? This is my one big question about the shuttle, among others I can think of. Also, the way they are mounted to the floor...is that custom or did they come like that, etc. Please! I would be so grateful.


Oops, missed that you had asked about the very same issue that Phil has talked about quite a lot.

Not to steal any of MGagen's thunder, but since he hasn't been able to apparently ask about it or hasn't gotten a response yet...

Yes, according to an interview of Winfield by James Van Hise in the book "The Ships of Star Trek" they were all scratchbuilt by AMT per Matt Jefferies' directions.


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## FishDS9 (Jan 3, 2006)

There's more discussion about this over at the Starship Exeter forum on Subspacebbs.com:

Galileo Thread


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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

Frankly, what shocked me was that the thing was bought for only three grand.


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## SPINDRIFT62 (May 29, 2006)

I am wondering what would be easier to find the crashed saucer at Rosewell New Mexico or finding the present day location of the Galileo, a very big HMMMMMMMMM


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## feek61 (Aug 26, 2006)

Ok, where in the world can you find the "The Ships of Star Trek Book?" Years ago (in the 1970s) I bought a ton of 8 X 10 Star Trek photos from James through mail order. Good to see him still around and still involved in Star Trek.


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

feek61 said:


> Ok, where in the world can you find the "The Ships of Star Trek Book?" Years ago (in the 1970s) I bought a ton of 8 X 10 Star Trek photos from James through mail order. Good to see him still around and still involved in Star Trek.


I think James recently passed if I a statement I read recently is correct(someone said they bought a ton of filmclips from his "widow" recently - again, please remember that I have no way of knowing directly whether that statement is accurate - so don't quote the info of his demise as gospel but if you are curious some google or other such searching should answer the question for you...).

I bought my copy of "The Ships of Star Trek" on ebay recently.

You might also try Amazon as it is sometimes an even better source for finding out of print books.


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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

Yeah, fine, but is the shuttlecraft still in Akron?


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## Commander Dan (Mar 22, 2001)

Anyone know anything new on the whereabouts or restoration of the original full-scale Galileo?

Edit: Oops. I just discovered the thread “Building a "real" TOS shuttlecraft?” which discusses this topic further. My apologies.


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## pagni (Mar 20, 1999)

Chuck_P.R. said:


> I think James recently passed if I a statement I read recently is correct(someone said they bought a ton of filmclips from his "widow" recently - again, please remember that I have no way of knowing directly whether that statement is accurate - so don't quote the info of his demise as gospel but if you are curious some google or other such searching should answer the question for you...).
> 
> I bought my copy of "The Ships of Star Trek" on ebay recently.
> 
> You might also try Amazon as it is sometimes an even better source for finding out of print books.


James is still around and is selling clips on ebay.


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