# The Return of Aurora --my visit there



## Zathros

It looks as if The Return of Aurora Plastics corp is indeed happening..I called 
thier offices last week, and had a very long conversation with DR Gennaro Giammarino, the VP there..I was wondering why thier releases were late , and of course wondering about how authentic all of this was , with the LAPCO fiasco that happened a few years back..He invited me to thier offices, and provided me with 2 releases just waiting for decals and instruction sheets..In addition, I was also invited to the warehouse this coming week..According to him, there will be some VERY pleasant surprises in store..I also got a look at the test shot for the Aurora Captain kidd Pirate, and a few knights..He is VERY aware that the hobby public is suspicious from the Lapco thing, and now that the company is family owned , he states all product will indeed be forthcomimg..

Heres some pics of the first aircraft releases...so I am confident from what I have seen..that they will produce product..I also saw the test shot of Spartacus..The point he stressed was that Aurora had more than one mold of thier kits, and Monogram only bought one of each..he states he has many of the duplicate Molds..not ALL, but many..I got a look at the mold inventory book..and it looks as if that is so..in any case,,it looks good..I will post more as I get it


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## falcondesigns

Finally some concrete evidence,well done.This is a good thing.Alexander


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## Duck Fink

Man I was just thinking about these guys tonight. I was wondering if anyone heard (or not heard) anything lately. This IS promising. I still want to see the kits on the shelves but thanks Zathros for throwing something positive our way regarding the "new Aurora".

I for one have been REAL skeptical about all of this. Docplastic was the only other positive spin we got a few months ago. It sounds like the "A Corp" guys know they need to get some kits out on the shelves to help restore their credibility. My signal to get excited about the kits will be seeing the first one released. If they make that first one happen then I will be anxiously awaiting the figure kits. MAKE IT HAPPEN, A-CORP!


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## spe130

Well...those are definitely kits. This is good news.


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## Zorro

Well ... those are definitely _one_ kit.


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## Marko

Watch the originals pop up on ebay now! This does look promosing now. I being a very skeptical person, will wait for the product to show up also. Hope so!!


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## Zathros

*again..*

In addition, I also saw the promo built ups of the Aurora Phantom & Forgotten Prisoner that will be on display at the January Toy Fair that they _will_ be attending..Those planes were shot for them by Revell/Monogram..Apparently
they have a deal with RM to shoot aircraft from existing molds that RM isnt
releasing, but again, they themselves have many molds, and the good thing
for my interest anyway, is they have a fair amount of figure molds..The UFO
by the way , will not be released with the current boxart on thier website but
rather with the original boxart of the Aurora first release from 1968 as I provided him with the original kit to reproduce that box from my own collection..as far as
horror kits go..what I can say for the present..is that it looks VERY good
according to him..that we are in for some great rereleases...


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## MonsterModelMan

Zathros,

Great detective work! Did he give an update of the first release date? Why is decals taking so long? That seems very odd to me...

Thanks and looking forward to building some of these kits for the "first" time!

MMM


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## Zathros

The release date was put back because the company that they ordered the decals for is horribly late from they date they promised them..from what he told me..the planes should be available within 2-3 weeks from now..Then the forgotten prisoner..I am going to thier warehouse this Friday and will post more pics..I can also field any questions or suggestions as he approved me to do so..so feel free to ask anything you would like to know...whatever info he supplied me with..I will be happy to share..


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## phrankenstign

Just out of curiosity, did you ask why they decided on releasing The Forgotten Prisoner? That kit was released in the 90s by CineModels....and then by Polar Lights just a few years ago.


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## Lloyd Collins

Thanks,Zathros! Now we know they are for real, we have more models to look forward to.


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## buzzconroy

Why didnt they show pics of the test shots of the kidd and spartacus?
I am puzzled why they are releasing kits that monogram has?
Buzz


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## Whiter

Will the Universal Monsters be rereleased? In glow?


Whiter


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## frankenstyrene

Did they mention why they've been so non-forthcoming with any solid info, even on their own site? They could have done as Frank did and posted here, showed a few shots of whatever and at least _tried_ to lay fears of a repeat Lapco to rest once and for all. They'd have nothing to lose and everything to gain. They didn't. Why not?

My optimism meter now reads 10%. Nothing at all against you, Z.


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## Roy Kirchoff

The Fokker DR-1 plastic looks like the same color as Monarchs' Nosferatu.

Thanks Zathros for the update. Things look and sound promising.

RK


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## Zombie_61

phrankenstign said:


> Just out of curiosity, did you ask why they decided on releasing The Forgotten Prisoner? That kit was released in the 90s by CineModels....and then by Polar Lights just a few years ago.


I was wondering the same thing. If they really want to allay the concerns many modelers have about this venture, particularly those who got burned by the LAPCO fiasco, they should prioritize kits that haven't been seen for several decades rather than kits that have been re-issued within the last 10 years. But this thread does give some hope that this is a sincere effort to resurrect Aurora, and that we may see those "long lost" kits again in the near future.


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## SUNGOD

Sounds a lot more promising!


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## Zathros

Ok..I will attempt to answer as many questions as I can..First off, apparently PL didnt make that many forgotten prisoners, as they seem pretty non existant, even on E-bay, as well as A corp has that Original Aurora mold of thier own ..second..there isnt much of a chance that the long box monsters will be released as well, except for the phantom of the opera, and again sort of what was just said..alot of them have been done over the last few years..Unlless of course, there is a big demand..Feel free to 
E-mail me or post here what you would like to see..if the demand is that great, they will definitely consider it..Again , they are trying to be as diversified as possible, by doing the aircraft ,as well as other military subjects that Aurora did, including the Atlantis sub..JUST like Aurora Originally did...

They are also mindful of kits that have not been produced in many years : Spartacus, Jesse James, and the vampire castle creature..and as a quick "inside scoop"..The Apache Warrior and Confederate Raider are even being considered..Again, these are molds that were duplicate Aurora Molds, so they are fairly easy to put out..as far as showing pics of the test shots..They will be posted here as soon as I build them and paint them, as I have been contracted to do them for A Corp..I only saw one,of each, and they will be shipping me some to build and paint for promotionals..As with all new companies in this genreATIENCE is the key..I cant disclose everything just now..but again, I can definitely tell you that if all goes as A corp has planned..we are ALL in for some VERY pleasant and exciting surprises..I too am a bit "gun shy"..THAT, was why I got involved in the first place..

I remember the Lapco fiasco VERY well..But with seeing the product that they have in the works NOW..I am a bit more confident that we will see Product that most of us will LOVE to have..I will be posting more info and pics very soon..also keep in mind that the owners of this new company ALSO have thier OWN professions, and are doing this is best they can with all the spare time they can throw into it..once it takes off..then it will probably blossom into a full time thing..and I too will be dedicating more time on thier staff..Again..THAT IS..if all goes as well as it is supposed to go..

LASTLY: NONE of these kits are being made overseas..The owners are very clear on this..So in my opinion, that is a good thing, as well as the kits will NOT be altered in any way from the original molds, or in scale..the only alterations of course, would be 
for better fit as PL did..

So for now..JUST sit tight..I will be getting back to all For A-corp as I get the information...


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## spocks beard

Hi Zathros, Just wondering if you had any info as to wether A-Corp has the duplicate molds to any of the lost in space kits? I know the polar lights kits are still plentifull, but it would be cool if they still have them or any other sci-fi molds that were thought to no longer exist. :dude:


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## robiwon

Maybe this has been answered before but here goes- Why are they calling themselves "The A Corp" instead of Aurora? Are they actualy "Aurora" or not? I didn't see the word Aurora on the boxes shown in your pics.


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## TAY666

robiwon said:


> Maybe this has been answered before but here goes- Why are they calling themselves "The A Corp" instead of Aurora? Are they actualy "Aurora" or not? I didn't see the word Aurora on the boxes shown in your pics.


Probably because they don't own the rights to that name.
Or the rights to use the logo.


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## robiwon

So this isn't realy the return of Aurora? Just a company reissueing their kits that had ties with Aurora?


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## Zathros

spocks beard said:


> Hi Zathros, Just wondering if you had any info as to wether A-Corp has the duplicate molds to any of the lost in space kits? I know the polar lights kits are still plentifull, but it would be cool if they still have them or any other sci-fi molds that were thought to no longer exist. :dude:


The LIS Molds were badly damaged in a trainwreck when some cars derailed in
the wintertime on thier way to Monogram, when Aurora sold thier molds to Monogram...Monogram couldnt justify repairing them, as in 1977, LIS was a pretty dead franchise..As well as I certainly wouldnt advise them to reissue them if they had them , since they are still quite plentiful even now..In fact, I dont believe they have them..


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## Zathros

robiwon said:


> Maybe this has been answered before but here goes- Why are they calling themselves "The A Corp" instead of Aurora? Are they actualy "Aurora" or not? I didn't see the word Aurora on the boxes shown in your pics.


The company name is indeed "Aurora Plastics corporation", but Andrew Eisenberg from Cinemodels ( which by the way, hasnt produced anything in YEARS) discovered that the Aurora Oval Logo and name within, ran out of copyright, then Registered it as a property unto himself..The A-product owners approached him offereing a deal, but from what I have been told..They have been unable to come to terms so far..


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## Zathros

robiwon said:


> So this isn't realy the return of Aurora? Just a company reissueing their kits that had ties with Aurora?


From my meeting with Dr Giammarino, and the information I was given and the materials I have seen , this _IS_ the Return of Aurora and as close to its return as it will ever get..Dr Giammarino is the grandson of the late Joseph Giammarino,one of the founders of Aurora plastics Corporation, along with Abe Shikes who was the President until 1970, I believe..In addition, the majority of releases, in fact, so far ALL the releases to come are from ORIGINAL Aurora Molds..Again,there were duplicate molds of virtually ALL kits..Joe Giammarino OWNED the molds..he only sold one of everything in thier inventory to Monogram..
In fact, I asked specifically about the Moonbus..we both looked in his grandfathers Mold inventory book,and we found one mold was sold to Monogram, and _THREE_ duplicate molds were destroyed..so the "lost aurora molds" that were being lauded by the then Lapco..were simply DUPLICATE original molds..lol..poor marketing, in my opinion..but again..no styrene issues here are new..they are vintage Aurora products from vintage molds..just fresh shots..So in essence, as I have said, and in answer to your question..it IS the return of Aurora..just without the Oval logo, so far..Its the same family that owned and worked for aurora..just the next generation..


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## Zathros

frankenstyrene said:


> Did they mention why they've been so non-forthcoming with any solid info, even on their own site? They could have done as Frank did and posted here, showed a few shots of whatever and at least _tried_ to lay fears of a repeat Lapco to rest once and for all. They'd have nothing to lose and everything to gain. They didn't. Why not?
> 
> My optimism meter now reads 10%. Nothing at all against you, Z.


One of the things they needed was a PR man, and someone to field and answer questions for them, as I have said in an earlier post, they have professions of thier own, and are looking forward to this taking off..They and I have come to terms, and I have been contracted to fill that post..Its not that they are not "forthcoming", its that they have very scant time, as they are negotiating product releases, and all that goes with putting a kit into production, as well as running this as a TRUE Corporation..I will also be assisting with the information updates on the website as well, & I will be posting ALL official information as soon as I get it here, and will keep you all updated, and of course, feel free to contact me via e-mail here, or post your questions here as well..and dont be afraid to state what kits you would like to see again!..if the demand is great enough..they WILL do it, and of course, provided the mold is in their inventory.I will definitely approach them with all reasonable requests and we will entertain all subjects that have a high demand..

Z


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## fluke

Wait a minute! I thought the whole Train thing was a big story!?!?

2. PL must have re-released the Prisoner kit!?!....I didn't just buy it a few years back at my LHS for 20 sometning bucks and do a quick weekend build on a 200.00 or so kit!


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## Steve CultTVman Iverson

That's sure not the story Jerry told me several years ago. 

Steve


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## Zathros

Steve CultTVman Iverson said:


> That's sure not the story Jerry told me several years ago.
> 
> Steve


Steve,

and what story are you referring to?


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## Zorro

So where have all these molds been living all these years? Must have been a hell of a storage bill. There has already been one very prominent member of this board who apparently now believes he was mis-led with this same story about the molds.


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## Zathros

Zorro said:


> So where have all these molds been living all these years? Must have been a hell of a storage bill. There has already been one very prominent member of this board who apparently now believes he was mis-led with this same story about the molds.


From what I have learned..they were in storage in New Jersey for quite some time..LET ME STATE this first: This past Friday, I visited DR Giammarino..
and was shown all that I stated..Right now, I am a Contracted and paid 
Consultant for them..I am NOT saying that I am ALL knowing about this new company as of yet, or that they are as clean as the driven snow..Hell..I am only on board for 3 days so far..From what I have gathered so far, is that the Lapco thing ( which as a collector was VERY disappointing to me as well) was a BADLY concieved and embarrasing venture that went horribly wrong for them, and in an effort to put it to bed, they may or may not have made excuses to cover up thier mistakes.
My MAIN reason for getting involved ( and by the way, I was ASKED to assist them) is to see AURORA Kits back in circulation..And again from what I have seen..there is a VERY good indication that its going to happen..In fact, next month..I will be seeing the Molds..I will definitely post pics of them ..remember..I TOO want to see all the facts..but I cant get all the visual facts in 3 days..I have seen the mold inventory book in Joe Giammarinos handwriting..if that is anything..of course the molds are a bit Bigger than a ledger book, and I am looking forward to seeing them..again, I am doing this out of SHEER desire to see alot of these kits back in circulation..just give me a chance to see a FULL picture, and believe me, you will all be the first group to know..and see it all as I get it.
AND...also..we will all know if ANY of it is a sham..as I will be there PERSONALLY..so either way..we will know...but again..so far for what its worth ..from what I have seen..it looks authentic..


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## fluke

My goof.....I now see that it states that "PL did a Limited run"

......but still whats with the Train Wreck story?....I thought that Dave or Mr. Lowe cleared that one up a while back?


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## frankenstyrene

For what it's worth, I appreciate you telling us up front that you work for them.


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## frankenstyrene

And since you asked for input, reissued Wildlife kits are the top of my "Hey Santa" letter. Imagine those on the shelves at WalMart or Hobby Lobby...kids ALWAYS love animals, y'know? Animal model kits - especially the way Aurora sculpted them? Can't miss.

Optimism meter holding at 10%...


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## Steve CultTVman Iverson

Zathros said:


> Steve,
> 
> and what story are you referring to?


I was sent a list by Jerry of 80 or so subjects with the insistance that these were all existing, unproduced molds of lost Aurora kits. Jerry told me this fantastic tale that the Aurora monsters were so successful that Aurora tooled up 1 new kit a week and then never got around to releaseing them and that they had the molds in storage all these years. I ask for clarification, asking if he meant "lost designs", but he was insistant that they had molds for these lost kits. The "lost molds" included Dracula's Daughter, Frankenstein vs. the Wolfman, Dracula's Castle, Talbots's Tomb, Abbott and Costello meet Frankenstein and on and on and on.

Jerry was very excited about all this and very passionate. He insisted it was reality.

About that point, it started getting too deep for me...

As for the molds owned my Monogram, they obtained them from Nabisco when the Aurora assets were sold off. Long ago, I exchanged emails with the Tom West, who was an R&D Product Manager at Aurora at the end. He said 14 or 15 molds were destroyed in the train wreck, but that most of the Aurora toolings were melted down for scrap by Monogram. 

Steve


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## Zathros

Steve CultTVman Iverson said:


> I was sent a list by Jerry of 80 or so subjects with the insistance that these were all existing, unproduced molds of lost Aurora kits. Jerry told me this fantastic tale that the Aurora monsters were so successful that Aurora tooled up 1 new kit a week and then never got around to releaseing them and that they had the molds in storage all these years. I ask for clarification, asking if he meant "lost designs", but he was insistant that they had molds for these lost kits. The "lost molds" included Dracula's Daughter, Frankenstein vs. the Wolfman, Dracula's Castle, Talbots's Tomb, Abbott and Costello meet Frankenstein and on and on and on.
> 
> Jerry was very excited about all this and very passionate. He insisted it was reality.
> 
> About that point, it started getting too deep for me...
> 
> As for the molds owned my Monogram, they obtained them from Nabisco when the Aurora assets were sold off. Long ago, I exchanged emails with the Tom West, who was an R&D Product Manager at Aurora at the end. He said 14 or 15 molds were destroyed in the train wreck, but that most of the Aurora toolings were melted down for scrap by Monogram.
> 
> Steve


Thanks for that info Steve..I'm going to print this out and present this to Jerry when I see him again next week..remember..I TOO want to get to the bottom of it all.and I want to make sure that MY efforts will not bring a bad reputation to me as well!..if these guys are playing games..I would be shocked and surprised..but again..I think that it was just a BAD and lousy 
mess that went from bad to worse with Lapco, and they just could not get out of it gracefully..from the looks of what I have seen..it looks like they have learned a valuable lesson..and want to get it off the ground the right way now..and it wasnt all them..it was another company that gave them lousy advice...


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## ShadOAB

and it wasnt all them..it was another company that gave them lousy advice...

Me thinks Zathros is walking on thin ice.


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## Duck Fink

Steve (cultman iverson) has delivered products on my end and as everyone here knows......is MORE than credible!!!!!!

I am sitting in the bushes again waiting to see what happens. YIKES.....WHAT A SOAP OPERA!

This sounds like a real slippery company I have dealt with before. I don't mean to attack Zanthros credibility. At this point I think we all need to sit back and see what happens. KITS ON THE SHELVES MAKES THINGS CREDIBLE! ANYONE can be fooled. I know I have. No matter what the guy sounded like face to face.

There is a reason that the elders have spoken...........


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## Steve CultTVman Iverson

I'm not the be-all and end-all expert. I'd like to see these guys produce something. But there are some things that happened in the past that were certainly questionable.

I do appreciate Zathros taking time to visit these guys and get some information for us. 

We'll have to see how it all sorts itself out. 

Steve


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## Duck Fink

Steve CultTVman Iverson said:


> I'm not the be-all and end-all expert. I'd like to see these guys produce something. But there are some things that happened in the past that were certainly questionable.
> 
> I do appreciate Zathros taking time to visit these guys and get some information for us.
> 
> We'll have to see how it all sorts itself out.
> 
> Steve


Ditto


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## fluke

Verrrry Interrresting........


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## spe130

frankenstyrene said:


> And since you asked for input, reissued Wildlife kits are the top of my "Hey Santa" letter. Imagine those on the shelves at WalMart or Hobby Lobby...kids ALWAYS love animals, y'know? Animal model kits - especially the way Aurora sculpted them? Can't miss.


Agreed. I'd love to see the Knights, too.


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## otto

If I had the molds, the apache warrior and confederate raider, pirates and gladiators and knights would have been my 1st releases. I wouldnt have bothered with the Fokker or the Vampire. Aurora wasnt really famous for the tanks and planes, in fact they were sub par kits, even back then. I'd love to see them make a comeback, but if they spend to many assets on kits that will produce a slim return, they may get into trouble again...I really hope to see Sparticus and Kidd, I'll buy those.


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## otto

Did these molds just resurface in the last couple of years? They must not of been aware of them in the lapco days, as all they produced then were two resin kits, ie the wizard and a frankenstien bust. Plus the Fokker Eindekker in plastic. Maybe I should say "tried to produce" as I seem to remember many grumbles about preorders not ever getting filled. The resin Vampire, cast by Geometric seems an odd choice for an early release by a "real plastic injection molded company' , with original molds supposedly piled to the roof. Sorry for the ramble, but I'm still a little leary of all this. I want to believe in Santa, but the older and wiser I get the harder it is to do...


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## John P

Sure their planes were generally sucky and simplistic, but their biplane kits were generally decent, and of interesting and desireable subjects. And a lot easier builds than, say, Eduard's very good but complex biplane kits!


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## Zorro

John P said:


> Sure their planes were generally sucky and simplistic, but their biplane kits were generally decent, and of interesting and desireable subjects. And a lot easier builds than, say, Eduard's very good but complex biplane kits!


I built most of those Aurora WW I kits in the late Sixties. It was the era of _The Blue Max_ and _Snoopy Vs. The Red Baron_ and _Enemy Ace_ comic books.

I still think these guys are full of it, though. I'd love to hear docplastic pipe in. I suspect he's got some relevant personal insight.


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## razorwyre1

there are parallels here to stuff that occasionally happens in the halloween/novelty industry. the problem is that the personalities of the persons involved interfere with business practices. 

these guys have very serious credibility problems because of their past actions and words. even if everything they do and say now is on the level, their recent past casts a pall over everything they do and will do for the foreseeable future. 

all of us here want this to be legit, but theres really no use in speculating because they have so harmed their reputation that noting can be taken as real until the kits themselves are in the stores.

zathros, thanks for doing the checking. you may want to tell them that, as was suggested, they need a p.r./marketing expert, who can also handle their internet publicity and keep it updated AND they need a liaison to us, the die-hard kit builders, who can advise them on what we think. (someone needs to tell them how thin the ice they stand on is; how things like going after mobieus and monarch will do nothing but alienate us, and do them more harm than good, or that because of their past, they shouldnt talk about any future projects, no matter how hard they are begged for news, until the styrene is already being shot into the molds. it really seems like they dont know or care about what we, their future prime customer base, think.)


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## Dave Hussey

The fact that these guys have made a number of mistakes in the past, some of which we are aware of, definitely proves one thing - they're human like the rest of us.

If they learn from their mistakes and get this off the ground, that would be great news for us.

Huzz


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## Zathros

Again, my intention at going there and getting involved in the first place was to see how authentic all this is..This coming Friday I am going to thier warehouse and taking pics of the produced planes en masse..and seeing whatever else thay have there..I am aware that MY OWN credibility is at risk, and I already told them that..I found out about this company from my hobby dealer..I am NOT a dealer..I am just a kit builder and collector , like the rest of you..I have a career, and am NOT looking for one in the hobby field..I agreed to help them only since I was paid up front..and with a company Check with the Aurora plastics corp account , and the check cleared.I will definitely CUT them loose, and be the first to tell you all if ANY of this is not authentic..and frankly as I told Steve by phone...there has to be "something SERIOUSLY wrong with someones Cookies" if they are starting up a company heralding all this product and upcoming releases if it is all a crock..In addition, at the risk of repetition, I was given those 2 kits to post pics of, as well as shown test shots..

I also told them very CLEARLY how skeptical everyone is going to be about them, as well as I MUST be provided with RELIABLE and provable information in order to restore any credibility to them.. and that, is my involvement so far in a nutshell ( Pardon the pun)..again, I will post all info, good or bad, as I get it..but from what I know and have seen so far..at least 4 kits look reasonably definite..


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## Zathros

razorwyre1 said:


> there are parallels here to stuff that occasionally happens in the halloween/novelty industry. the problem is that the personalities of the persons involved interfere with business practices.
> 
> these guys have very serious credibility problems because of their past actions and words. even if everything they do and say now is on the level, their recent past casts a pall over everything they do and will do for the foreseeable future.
> 
> all of us here want this to be legit, but theres really no use in speculating because they have so harmed their reputation that noting can be taken as real until the kits themselves are in the stores.
> 
> zathros, thanks for doing the checking. you may want to tell them that, as was suggested, they need a p.r./marketing expert, who can also handle their internet publicity and keep it updated AND they need a liaison to us, the die-hard kit builders, who can advise them on what we think. (someone needs to tell them how thin the ice they stand on is; how things like going after mobieus and monarch will do nothing but alienate us, and do them more harm than good, or that because of their past, they shouldnt talk about any future projects, no matter how hard they are begged for news, until the styrene is already being shot into the molds. it really seems like they dont know or care about what we, their future prime customer base, think.)


I am already endeavoring to do all you suggest here, and am already well aware of these issues..remember, I am ONLY on board with them 3 days..Many issues are being discussed..and I already have a list I will be going over with them at the next meeting..again..I will keep you all posted.


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## MonsterModelMan

Well, proof is in the pudding! I appreciate all the efforts that you have already taken and look forward to a FULL report! 

If they are legit...there is MUCH work to be done to make things right! With the correct marketing and of course PRODUCT...they could make right all the wrongs by just getting started. 

MMM


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## Mark McGovern

Zathros,

razorwyre's last post pretty much stated my thoughts, and your posts throughout have made me cautiously optimistic. Through you we now have a higher level of information about who these guys are and what they're doing than we did in the past.

Since you've asked, I'd like to see _any _of the figure kits reissued. As a figure modeler who competes in IPMS events I can tell you that 1/8 scale figures are pretty much limited to Sci-Fi/Horror/Movie subjects. All other figures are generally more of the same in larger scales or Military/Fantasy characters in much smaller scales. If the Aurora Knights or Pirates were released now, they would be absolutely unique subjects at 1/8 scale in this sector of the market.

I hope that they succeed, and that the willingness to believe that you've shown all along pays off, Zee.

Mark McG.


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## Steve244

Fascinating reading.

Zathros, my impression is of some nice fellas from the Bronx (ok pick any borough) that are trying to rekindle their parent's dream. They aren't astute businessmen, but they're honest and not out to con anyone.

But they may be conning themselves.

What was your impression of them from a business perspective? Were their offices dedicated to the “A-line” or whatever they’re calling themselves or was this a hobby and they have other day jobs? Were there any employees or was it just one guy, a desk, and a phone and maybe a rolodex?

Was there anything there to indicate they liked models?


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## John P

Most importantly - were they wearing liesure suits? 'Cause if they're wearing liesure suits, you KNOW they're crooks!


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## MonsterModelMan

John P said:


> Most importantly - were they wearing liesure suits?


Now that was funny!!!! :lol: ROTFLMAO funny!!! :roll: Oh my sides hurt! :lol: 
That was a good one, JP!

MMM


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## Roland

I'm trying to not get too excited yet... It does sound promising. When those models are for sale from dependable sources and/or local hobby shops, then I will act appropriately.


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## LGFugate

Great work, Zathros! The more we know, the better we'll feel about this new generation of Aurorians. I'll be looking forward eagerly to the report of your visit to their warehouse.


Does anyone else have a warm and fuzzy feeling growing about our hobby? I was in hog heaven when I discovered this board and Polar Lights, then the depths of hell when PL "bit the dust". Now, with Moebius and others beginning to produce kits of both old and new subjects, I'm getting that "good old days" feeling again. I mean, if a company like Airfix can be turned around and made to work again, and new ventures like Moebius can start up, doesn't that show there is hope?

"God bless us, everyone!" (And no, I'm completely serious!)

Larry
:thumbsup:


----------



## scotpens

MonsterModelMan said:


> Well, proof is in the pudding!


"The proof is in the pudding" doesn't make any sense. The aphorism is "The proof of the pudding is in the eating." It's another one of those mangled cliches like "a load of crock" or "for all intensive purposes."

In this case, the proof will be in the plastic!


----------



## MadCap Romanian

> Were there any employees or was it just one guy, a desk, and a phone and maybe a rolodex?


Also...was there an address on the door or the building? It's not a "Fly by night" business, is it?


----------



## Hunch

I was wondering. If they intend to produce kits HERE in the US it will be costly. If they are indeed getting Revell to do some of the injection work, wouldn't that be overseas? I could be wrong, but I thought Revell gave up producing kits in the US years ago?
And this warehouse in NJ. The cost of housing all these molds (molds are BIG and Heavy) would have been so much to absorb why didn't they put out kits sooner to deflect the cost. Maybe this is the same warehouse where they are holding the nitrate print of London After Midnight?


----------



## Scott Hasty

Six words...

Not until it's in my hands...


----------



## THRUSH Central

Actually that's seven words as your use of the contraction includes the abbreviated and understood "is". I love a mystery! I still have my check ready to mail. I ordered 6 of each of the initial kit offerings. As soon as I get the word, and kits, the check is theirs! Christmas is SUCH an exciting time! Maybe, just maybe, we might be able to "go home again". THRUSH.


----------



## Roy Kirchoff

LGFugate said:


> ...Does anyone else have a warm and fuzzy feeling growing about our hobby? I was in hog heaven when I discovered this board and Polar Lights, then the depths of hell when PL "bit the dust". Now, with Moebius and others beginning to produce kits of both old and new subjects, I'm getting that "good old days" feeling again. I mean, if a company like Airfix can be turned around and made to work again, and new ventures like Moebius can start up, doesn't that show there is hope?...


My sentiments exactly Larry! :dude: 

Since I just dug out of our mini blizzard up here I'm very warm but not so fuzzy. :lol: 

I'm really looking forward to nestling in over my Christmas break and finishing a couple of unfinished projects.

Monarch and Mobieus are a go and Aurora is coming on line. That's cool.

RK


----------



## Zorro

Hunch said:


> Maybe this is the same warehouse where they are holding the nitrate print of London After Midnight?


_Gotta'_ be! I bet Jimmy Hoffa's in there too. Jeez! 

I found a MIB Big Frankie at Toys 'R Us the other day. No, really!


----------



## KINGZILLA

Wow this would be awesome to see become a reality. Polar lights was great with what they released. But to see the next wave come again would be incredible. Time will tell.


----------



## KINGZILLA

*Oh by the way on a humorous note*

:hat: I picked up 10 Godzilla Go carts and a sealed giant insect at Salvation army.


----------



## Greg Roccaro

MESSAGE DELETED


----------



## THRUSH Central

Neither did Victor with Mrs. Frankenstein. (As far as we know.)


----------



## Scott Hasty

THRUSH Central said:


> Actually that's seven words as your use of the contraction includes the abbreviated and understood "is". I love a mystery! I still have my check ready to mail. I ordered 6 of each of the initial kit offerings. As soon as I get the word, and kits, the check is theirs! Christmas is SUCH an exciting time! Maybe, just maybe, we might be able to "go home again". THRUSH.


As a contraction _IT IS_ one word....  

So, reality check time. There's a ravenous niche market for sci-fi and figure kits. Another market for cars, armor, etc. and they begin their line with two HEAVILY outdated molds of WWI aircraft, not to mention a subject with little interest? It doesn't take much to research what is wanted in any given market (i.e. an INTERNET SEARCH). Not to mention, their website is only updated when someone lets them know it's outdated. These are errors/mistakes of a fourth-rate operation.

I hear [read] the talk about the figure kits et al, but _ALL_ we've seen are some pics of two kits and an instruction sheet? The new “logo” IMHO looks very well done, but too crisp, almost photoshopped; and in those photos, it wouldn't be hard. And correct me if I'm wrong [and I don't feel like going through all the posts], but didn't they say the delay was because of decals AND instruction sheets?

My meter 'O excitement is nary a blip. Now, if I see a warehouse of kits, I might be piqued, but so far this is another BSG Shuttlecraft....


----------



## Mr. Wabac

I have to agree...there is something very wrong with this picture...

First, there original "launch" had very little substance and a whole lot of "emotion", appealing to our sense of nostalgia, a return to the "good times", a ham-fisted attempt at flag waving with the "Made in USA" approach.

Second, they have made some very strange choices for product. Why would you release some rather poor quality kits of rather obscure subjects as your first efforts ? (I realize WW I aircraft can't really be considered obscure but all of the others are). Not a great way to generate cash flow.

Decals and instructions delayed ? Decals maybe, but you would have to find a really messed up printer to miss a deadline by a day; especially when they are black & white. I haven't heard of any of the small decal operators holding back product lately, so who did they source from ?

Kits and Molds. I could easily buy a kit on eBay and throw it in a new box and claim it was a new kit; that doesn't make it one. It would be harder to fill a warehouse with them, so that visit will be an important one. Better not be a bunch of cardboard boxes labelled "A-Plastic" either. Even then, I think the only true smoking gun would be to see the actual metal molds; not just a book with writing in it; anyone can do that. And if all of these molds are just sitting around, why get Revellogram to run "test shots" of their molds ?

History. They have carried on the LAPCO tradition to date. Many missed deadlines and lots of bluster with nothing to back it with. Nothing proactive; when they miss a deadline they seem to set another unrealistic one. Not inspiring management if this is for real. If indeed they have other business interests besides this I can't see how they have been able to be a success. While it may be a new line of enterprise, it is not that different from selling any other product or service.

This is still very very fishy. I'll believe it when it happens. Luckily, I don't have to worry about them taking my money if this turns out to be a hoax, or worse a con, as I won't be risking anything. If it is true I wish them the best, but all I see so far is LAPCO.

BTW, Im not impressed with anyone using Dr. in front of their name; doesn't add any credibility; if anything it lessens their credibility when they screwup.

Zathros, no offense to you in any of this; just a warning that you need to be very careful for your own defence. If this were to be fraud, you could end up wrapped up in it. I don't know what your background is, so I ask this question out of ignorance; what is your background that qualifies you as a spokesperson for the company ? If you have a solid background in Marketing and/or Communications then I can see their choice making sense. If not, you should perhaps ask yourself as to why they selected you. On the one hand I would hate for someone to miss an interesting opportunity, especially in a field they have interest in. On the otherhand I would hate to see someone who has a genuine interest in seeing this come to fruition be taken advantage of.


----------



## phrankenstign

Zorro said:


> I found a MIB Big Frankie at Toys 'R Us the other day. No, really!


Were those the same ones that Drew/Monsterluver saw for $25? If so, how about getting me one or two?


----------



## Zorro

phrankenstign said:


> Were those the same ones that Drew/Monsterluver saw for $25? If so, how about getting me one or two?


Oh yeah! It only cost $25 bucks! But there was only one of them. They found it in the back of the warehouse.


----------



## Scott Hasty

Again, I have some land to sell you just 2 miles south of me in the Dismal Swamp...


----------



## phrankenstign

Now's a good time to get in the Dismal Swamp market while it's low. It can only go up in price later.


----------



## John P

I sit quietly and await developments.


----------



## frankenstyrene

KINGZILLA said:


> :hat: I picked up 10 Godzilla Go carts and a sealed giant insect at Salvation army.


 You serious, Clark?

/Eddie


----------



## frankenstyrene

Mr. Wabac said:


> BTW, Im not impressed with anyone using Dr. in front of their name; doesn't add any credibility


Just don't say that in front of Dr. Dre. Just...don't.

Look, peoples, Standard Oil was once owned by a half-eaten breakfast. There's a lesson for us all there.

10% and holding.


----------



## Zathros

Mr. Wabac said:


> Zathros, no offense to you in any of this; just a warning that you need to be very careful for your own defence. If this were to be fraud, you could end up wrapped up in it. I don't know what your background is, so I ask this question out of ignorance; what is your background that qualifies you as a spokesperson for the company ? If you have a solid background in Marketing and/or Communications then I can see their choice making sense. If not, you should perhaps ask yourself as to why they selected you. On the one hand I would hate for someone to miss an interesting opportunity, especially in a field they have interest in. On the otherhand I would hate to see someone who has a genuine interest in seeing this come to fruition be taken advantage of.


I take no offense to what you are saying..as for my "Qualifications": I have owned 2 of my own businesses, and they were successful..I also HAVE marketing and advertising experience..also be aware that SOME people that were hired by PL had basically NO experience in that field, but learned as they went..and with thier "experience" they made some pretty LOUSY decisions as well..The key to me is running the business as a TRUE corporation, but on the same token, A-corp, Moebuis, Monarch and any other company that is striving to get into the kit business does not need to be run the SAME way that a multi million dollar operation like Aurora was in its heyday..No one puts out 60,000 piece runs of any kit anymore..Its a completely different, and much smaller operation now...also keep in mind that all these small companies have to do, is ship a kit to China for them to tool up copy it, and take care of the necessary paperwork to do business with that country..its not exactly easy as pie..but it aint Rocket science either..It used to cost one fifth of the 
price it costs here to cut molds there..but the gap is closing slowly, as the Chinese are raising thier prices..I already researched it..

PL went at it in a VERY big way because first off, Tom Lowe already had them making Johnny lightning cars..and he also had a Vast amount of investable capital from the johnny lightning sales as well as the cat litter business..no company such as the ones I have mentioned that are up and running now,, I doubt, will put out that much product in the amount of time PL did, nor does it have to, in my opinion..again the main cost is the molds..and according to the A-corp owners they have them ..thats more than half the battle..there are MANY inject mold companies that will shoot them for them here in the US..

I HATE to keep repeating myself so much, but again..my MAIN reason for getting involved is to GET these kits back in circulation..This is NOT nor will it be my main career..so far, it looks good..is that a Guarantee??of COURSE not..but from what I have seen, and what I think I will see this week..I think it has a great chance of flying..so I suggest we step back and I will do what they contracted me to do..Keep you all POSTED..and read your comments..


----------



## Zathros

razorwyre1 said:


> zathros, thanks for doing the checking. you may want to tell them that, as was suggested, they need a p.r./marketing expert, who can also handle their internet publicity and keep it updated AND they need a liaison to us, the die-hard kit builders, who can advise them on what we think. (someone needs to tell them how thin the ice they stand on is; how things like going after mobieus and monarch will do nothing but alienate us, and do them more harm than good, or that because of their past, they shouldnt talk about any future projects, no matter how hard they are begged for news, until the styrene is already being shot into the molds. it really seems like they dont know or care about what we, their future prime customer base, think.)


LOL..."dont look now..."..but as I posted shortly after the beginning of this post..I believe I have filled that position at thier request..in short..it was offered and I accepted..& the items I posted here that are coming are the same that they posted on thier website, as well as I have PERSONALLY seen the test shots of them..Or else I would not have mentioned them here..As far as the "thin ice" situation, I have already made them aware of that, and they themselves were well aware of that as well..again..I meet with them at the end of this week..I have nothing else to add here until then..


----------



## THRUSH Central

"It is" is one word?


----------



## xsavoie

I agree with you Zathros.Although I understand the deception of some modelers on this board,let's not get over sarcastic.If you people don't want to be optimistic,that's fine,since they failed to produce in the past.I guess we should take a neutral attitude and just wait and see.If LAPCO was a new and never heard of enterprise,would we be crapping on them.Too much of a sourgrape attitude prevents us from having a fair estimate of the situation.If the story of LAPCO's past financial setback is true,then we can only admire their courage for trying again.The business world is a very difficult one and sometimes trying to set up a business even ends up in disaster.They seem determined,and I doubt very much that LAPCO is out there to rip anyone off .They are taking all the risks in getting their enterprise going,and they would be fully exposed to prosecution if they were less than honest.They would have nothing significant to gain unless they were serious about producing kits.


----------



## Zathros

xsavoie said:


> I agree with you Zathros.Although I understand the deception of some modelers on this board,let's not get over sarcastic.If you people don't want to be optimistic,that's fine,since they failed to produce in the past.I guess we should take a neutral attitude and just wait and see.If LAPCO was a new and never heard of enterprise,would we be crapping on them.Too much of a sourgrape attitude prevents us from having a fair estimate of the situation.If the story of LAPCO's past financial setback is true,then we can only admire their courage for trying again.The business world is a very difficult one and sometimes trying to set up a business even ends up in disaster.They seem determined,and I doubt very much that LAPCO is out there to rip anyone off .They are taking all the risks in getting their enterprise going,and they would be fully exposed to prosecution if they were less than honest.They would have nothing significant to gain unless they were serious about producing kits.


I was going to wait until posting again until I had new information, but I have to add that A-corp has not accepted any payments on any releases to come yet..I definitely understand everyones skepticism, but I do agree with you xsavoie, that some comments here are a bit "heavy handed"...Its almost as if no one believes what I have seen with my own eyes, as well as the pics of kits I posted..from my meeting with them..they ARE very serious about getting product out, and on that note...I will post again after my next meeting with them..


----------



## John P

THRUSH Central said:


> "It is" is one word?


 No, "it's" is one word, that's what contractions are for, and you know it.


----------



## Arronax

First off, I'm with the "when-I-see-them-on-the-shelves-I'll-believe" group.

The nagging question I have is, if this is a scam, how the hell can A Corps make any money if they're not requiring payment up front?

Therefore, I must conclude that this is a poorly managed attempt to produce Aurora kits based on the assumption that modelers will buy anything with the name Aurora on it (or associated with Aurora). Chances of success are low. Chances of getting the old Aurora kits we'd really like are slim.

That said, if A Corps has it's heart in the right place, I wish them luck.

Zathros - two words - Mark Dean.

JIm


----------



## TAY666

John P said:


> I sit quietly and await developments.


Same here.


----------



## wolfman66

Arronax said:


> First off, I'm with the "when-I-see-them-on-the-shelves-I'll-believe" group.


My exact feelings aswell!


----------



## gruffydd

Thanks everyone. A very interesting and readable thread - "I couldn't put it down." 

This has been the most fascinating story in years on these boards! This story alone is enough to return me to that "warm fuzzy feeling" of the early days here, not because it may or may not happen, but because, with its LAPCO conjurations, and associated frenzies, scepticisms and speculations, the whole thing is reminiscent of those days.

Maybe nostalgia really is what it used to be.


----------



## sbaxter

gruffydd said:


> Maybe nostalgia really is what it used to be.


Nahh ... they just don't make nostalgia like they used to! I miss the old-timey nostalgia ...



Qapla'

SSB


----------



## THRUSH Central

no what?  THRUSH


----------



## Mr. Wabac

Zathros - glad you have done your homework on this; sounds like they have made the right choice. My concern was that you were potentially walking into something you didn't want to.

Don't get me wrong, I fully support any attempt to bring back the kits of the past and assume everything is legit unless proven otherwise. The track record to date has been more of something walking and talking like a duck, so a chance to have someone take a closer look at the operation is indeed welcome. LAPCO has coloured all of our thoughts on the subject. They need to start proving this is real.

One other concern; who would be distributing their product ? They need to sell not only the end user on their product, but to a middleman who is willing to take a chance on warehousing and distributing their product to stores (who themselves must take a chance). Not looking for an answer from you, just raising the question.

Best wishes.


----------



## StarshipClass

If they really do (and hopefully they will) turn out products, I wouldn't mind having some of their WWI airplanes. I had some of them as a kid and would love to build them again with a little more experience and talent this time.


----------



## myk

I'll throw this into the soup mix. I like surfing ebay and noticed not too long ago that one of the sellers was saying that he was the "official" new Aurora builder and painter, I believe it was Buzzconroy. Now I may be wrong about this. But if it's true, what does Buzzconroy have to say about it ? By the way Buzzconroy - love the Apache Warrior, makes me want to work on the built-up I have had in storage all these years.


----------



## buzzconroy

That wasnt me or my work that was quiet man from Toronto, just want to clear that up.I did do a prototype for monarch models only.

Buzz


----------



## myk

Thank you for correcting me.


----------



## xsavoie

It's all a matter of LAPCO being able to produce the right kits in high quality at a reasonnable price.I do agree that LAPCO should not content themselves at reproducing old AURORA kits,but rather take the same road as MOEBIUS and MONARCH did.If you produce old AURORA kits,improve on them,but mostly produce new and never seen before kits.They should emulate AURORA'S spirit,not limit themselves on copying AURORA.Aurora were inovative and creative.They did not copy on others,well mostly not anyway.


----------



## frankenstyrene

Arronax said:


> Therefore, I must conclude that this is a poorly managed attempt to produce Aurora kits based on the assumption that modelers will buy anything with the name Aurora on it (or associated with Aurora).


A pretty safe assumption, you have to admit.


----------



## Rainfollower

Still sceptical, but I will wait and see.

I do find the third photo of the DR-1 interesting. Looking in the bag, it appears that most of the pieces are already broken off the sprues. Upper left in the bag is a sprue with nothing on it, same with upper right. Seems odd to me for a new kit.


----------



## spe130

Rainfollower said:


> Still sceptical, but I will wait and see.
> 
> I do find the third photo of the DR-1 interesting. Looking in the bag, it appears that most of the pieces are already broken off the sprues. Upper left in the bag is a sprue with nothing on it, same with upper right. Seems odd to me for a new kit.


My Nossy was like that.


----------



## Bobman

Only *ONE MAIN* question Zathros: Do the LAPCO boys plan to re-pay the money they stole from kit buyers, artists, and others from the first time around? And this question is just laughs; Do they plan to set-up at the hobby shows like Chiller & Wonderfest? They might like to set-up, but it ain't gonna happen. I'm not speaking for those shows, but I do know some of the show promoters. The thought "a cold day in hell" comes to mind. *Please* feel free to print this out for them to read. 

Zathros you may have run your own 2 business very well. But I say you have chosen _poorly_ this time.

Bob


----------



## otto

Over on the Acorp site, they had an update on the 11th saying the 1st releases would be out on the 19th (yesterday). Has anyone (dealers, distributors) seen or heard anything yet? Mega hobby maybe?


----------



## Steve244

They really have no clue do they.

No website, no announcements; simply reissue some kits in new boxes and distributors and buyers would be thronging to buy mysterious aurora kits no matter what the subject. The quality and availability really wouldn't be an issue. Follow the Glencoe business model.


----------



## MadCap Romanian

> Over on the Acorp site, they had an update on the 11th saying the 1st releases would be out on the 19th (yesterday). Has anyone (dealers, distributors) seen or heard anything yet? Mega hobby maybe?


This is Monster Hobbies checking in.....NOPE! No A-Corp stuff here! No announcements either! I doubt even my distributors have heard of them. In fact, watching this thread is the only thing I know about them either, appart from their crappy web site and the LAPCO fiasco!

Yeah....you know Monster Hobbies.....www.freewebs.com/monsterhobbies ....we do mail order.

Hopefully soon, I can get a better web site.


----------



## mrmurph

Fingers crossed, but breath not held.
With Monarch and Moebius filling the figure niche admirably, I'm not too worried about the Aurora venture. I do wish them well, and hope that they really can get their act together.


----------



## Admiral Nelson

Zathros said:


> The LIS Molds were badly damaged in a trainwreck when some cars derailed in
> the wintertime on thier way to Monogram, when Aurora sold thier molds to Monogram...Monogram couldnt justify repairing them, as in 1977, LIS was a pretty dead franchise..As well as I certainly wouldnt advise them to reissue them if they had them , since they are still quite plentiful even now..In fact, I dont believe they have them..


Ah the old train wreck story again. Haven't heard that one in a few weeks.


----------



## spocks beard

Of course no one will ever no for sure, But i read that it was a few millitary kit molds, the addams family house, and one half of the seaview mold that were damaged in the wreck. I feel certain monogram did melt the lis molds down any way as they would have eventually re-released them in the late ninties when lost in space had there revival.


----------



## flyingfrets

spocks beard said:


> Of course no one will ever no for sure, But i read that it was a few millitary kit molds, the addams family house, and one half of the seaview mold that were damaged in the wreck. I feel certain monogram did melt the lis molds down any way as they would have eventually re-released them in the late ninties when lost in space had there revival.


Not necessarily so. In the roughly 25 years between Aurora's demise and the release of the LIS movie, there was less than no interest in the property (aside from us die-hards). Until USA cable started running it again, it hadn't been in wide release for what, 15 - 20 years? Without the broadcasts, there was nothing to generate buzz & interest (again, aside from us card-carrying fanatics).

Hindsight might've said melting down the LIS molds was shortsighted on their part, but from a business standpoint, could you have blamed them? Properly storing and maintaining molds that aren't generating any foreseeable income wouldn't have made much sense.

BTW: take a look at the "Seaview" thread over on the Sci-Fi forum. Frank posted a few shots of the Space Pod pattern. Head & shoulders above anything Aurora could've done given the advances in technology since 1967 or 68. Yeah, the nostalgia factor has a lot going for it, but how many of us thought the Chariot that came with the Cyclops kit was the ultimate in accuracy or detail?


----------



## Mark McGovern

I've read that another reason for melting down the mold was that the beryllium and other metals could be recycled into new molds or maybe just sold for the market value. Either way, really a better business decision than to store the molds with the hope that a lot of forty- and fifty-somethings might one day want to have the kits repopped.


Mark McG.


----------



## Scott Hasty

Zathros said:


> I was going to wait until posting again until I had new information, but I have to add that A-corp has not accepted any payments on any releases to come yet..I definitely understand everyones skepticism, but I do agree with you xsavoie, that some comments here are a bit "heavy handed"...Its almost as if no one believes what I have seen with my own eyes, as well as the pics of kits I posted..from my meeting with them..they ARE very serious about getting product out, and on that note...I will post again after my next meeting with them..


Okay, okay, I'm the "BAD" guy. "Heavy Handed?" They screw investors and you call this "heavy handed?" Man, grow a pair!!



Zathros said:


> as if no one believes what I have seen with my own eyes, as well as the pics of kits I posted


YOU'RE eyes, not mine or any others'! Pics are EASILY faked.

With the amount of posts after this, and no response, I find this thread another chase of the White Rabbit...

Merry Christmas and thank God for Mobieus and Monarch...two companies [guys] who have no problems keeping us in the loop, FIRST-HAND with all of the going's on of their operaration!!


----------



## Roland

Mark,

I can't follow your line of reasoning. Tooling is very expensive to develop. I used to think it was $10K-$20K. But, I think someone from PL once told me that it was more like $100K. If you sell the metal to a junkyard that wants to melt it down, you'll probably get alot less money for them. Your getting part of the cost of the metal, but, not the cost of the designer, sculptor, drawings, and tool maker. I think a better decision would be to sell a series of molds to another model company that wants to reissue them, if you can. Of course that depends on how popular the line of models was. The mold is more valuable if you can find the right buyer. There's a huge markup once you have tooling cost out of the way. You should be able to get part of the the cost of the metal back easily with any buyer. 


Roland


----------



## Mark McGovern

Roland said:


> ...I think a better decision would be to sell a series of molds to another model company that wants to reissue them, if you can. Of course that depends on how popular the line of models was...


See, Roland? You *can *follow my (or rather the execs at Revellogram, et al) line of reasoning. The line of _Lost in Space _models was based on, as noted by flyingfrets above, what was then an all-but-forgotten TV show when the decision was made to destroy the molds. Why save them when they had served their purpose as far as Aurora was concerned? Who knew in the 1970s and '80s that the children who had enjoyed the show years earlier would want repops of the models in another ten years? Ten years during which the ownwers would have to pay for the storage of molds they might never use again - molds which in the meantime could be melted down and reused for, say, models based on current military subjects or the latest Indy 500 winners.

I'm not saying that I approve of those choices having been made, just that I understand _why _they were made. Didn't most of us throw out some of those "timeless classics" as we were growing up, and for less sensible reasons? At least we have Polar Lights, Monarch, and Moebius - and now _maybe _A-corp - to help us relive our misspent youths.

Mark McG.


----------



## buzzconroy

But for now we have ebay-lots of vintage auroras pop up, at times you can get a rareity at a good price. 

Buzz


----------



## Zorro

Mark McGovern said:


> Either way, really a better business decision than to store the molds with the hope that a lot of forty- and fifty-somethings might one day want to have the kits repopped.
> 
> 
> Mark McG.


And yet, we are being told on this very thread that the geniuses at A-Corp did _just_ that! Regular Nostradamus's these guys are. Not very good businessmen apparently, but Nostradmus's nonetheless! 

(cue Twilight Zone theme music)


----------



## buzzconroy

Zorro said:


> And yet, we are being told on this very thread that the geniuses at A-Corp did _just_ that! Regular Nostradamus's these guys are. Not very good businessmen apparently, but Nostradmus's nonetheless!
> 
> (cue Twilight Zone theme music)


LOL good one Zorro, gawd that made laugh, needed that.....back to the warrior.

Buzz


----------



## Frankie Boy

Just to get things straight (while muttering under my breath that this has to be the most inane thread I've ever read), Zathros said "what I've seen with my own eyes". I've lost, in the over 100 posts to this thread, what exactly Zathros saw — besides the two bagged/boxed plane models and an inventory book.


----------



## sbaxter

Zorro said:


> Regular Nostradamus's these guys are.


Nostradami?

Qapla'

SSB


----------



## frankenstyrene

Of the relatively few predictions Nostrodamus made that contained clear references to actual persons, places or things - and so could be researched for verification - it turned out every single one was wrong, according to professional hoax and myth debunker James "the amazing" Randi.

So in order for these folks at "A" to be _true_ Nostrodami...well...

10% and holding until more concrete shows up.


----------



## buzzconroy

Frankie Boy said:


> Just to get things straight (while muttering under my breath that this has to be the most inane thread I've ever read), Zathros said "what I've seen with my own eyes". I've lost, in the over 100 posts to this thread, what exactly Zathros saw — besides the two bagged/boxed plane models and an inventory book.


He seen the test shots of Captain Kidd and Spartacus, he will be paiting them for them.

Buzz


----------



## Frankie Boy

"Test shots"? What is a test shot?


----------



## wolfman66

I find it hard to believe these test shots of the Kidd and the Gladiator still exists.I hate to slam a company like Aurora cause they made some of the finest figure kits around and alot of those kits are on my shelf but to throwing this rubbish out to people saying this kit is coming out and we got molds for the Apachie and ect without hard evidence like pics to show us like Moebuise and Monarch does to show us Styrene heads of whats coming out is a load of crap!If they really want to make a come back into the hobby industry bring back the figure kits and show some dam proof on what your doing cause words mean nothing!


----------



## wolfman66

Frankie Boy said:


> "Test shots"? What is a test shot?


Its like a car demo where you test drive it to see if you like it.Well with model kits it gives the Hobbist a look at what the kit looks like builtup and painted


----------



## TAY666

wolfman66 said:


> Its like a car demo where you test drive it to see if you like it.Well with model kits it gives the Hobbist a look at what the kit looks like builtup and painted


Actually test shots are just that.
They throw the mold in the press and run a few shots.
That way they can see if there are any issues or problems that need to be corrected before going into production on an item.
With luck, the mold will actually work (ie actually fill all areas of the mold, actually eject the parts when the cycle is done, sufficiently cools the parts in a time that is reasonable, etc.)
Then if they can get some decent shots, they send them out to the customer who owns the mold.
Once the customer gives approval of the parts and places an order, then they can go into production.
The molding company also needs to do these things to get an idea of cycle time, and material usage, so they can quote a proper price for a production run.


----------



## otto

wolfman66 said:


> Its like a car demo where you test drive it to see if you like it.Well with model kits it gives the Hobbist a look at what the kit looks like builtup and painted


 When new molds are finished or old molds taken out of storage, they do a small run of "test shots" to see if the molds are ok or if they need any work done to them to make them function properly. I've heard they often use a different color plastic than the actual main production run. I've heard of pink and metalic gold Frankenstein kits. But unless the test shots were in a different color plastic, how could you tell if it was really a limited run test shot, or an old kit thats been bagged? I think thats where the doubt comes in, just because someone sees a bagged kit doesnt mean it come out of a mold recently. It could be a week old or 40 years old. The boxes though, being different than the original are definitly new printed versions.


----------



## otto

Haaa! Tay beat me to it LOL..


----------



## beck

on the melting down of the molds . ya don't sell Beryllium to a junk yard !! 
500 mg of Be foil ( that's a half a gram ! ) sells for a little over 600 $ . you can get 50 grams of slivers for @ 320 $ .
so if a company isn't making any money off the tool it's well worth it to 
separate out the Be and sell it . 
hb


----------



## otto

Also, another "fly in the ointment", is that the train wreck happened in the late 60's not the mid 70's when they sold the company to Nabisco. Unless there were two train wrecks. I really hope they are getting kits made, and the fact that they arn't taking money yet makes me think they might be on the up and up. If they just came out and said that they had a deal made with Revell to get kits produced in the US, with the remaining molds that revell had in storage, AND if successful in that that, they would have new molds made for "lost kits" I would believe every word! But all this stuff about warehouses full of molds makes me a bit skeptical, esp. when you consider one of the 1st releases is a resin vampire. Whuts up with that? Are the pirates and gladiators resin too?


----------



## Frankie Boy

Otto said: "But unless the test shots were in a different color plastic, how could you tell if it was really a limited run test shot, or an old kit thats been bagged?"

That is just what was going to be my next question!


----------



## buzzconroy

I have captain kidd in 2 different colors, almond color and flesh plastic like the man from uncle kits, sorry everyone I think this entire thing wont budge.I agree with Otto commets.
Buzz


----------



## DinoMike

OK, Zathros says that he considers some of the anti-LAPCO/A Corp. comments to be "heavy-handed".

For good or ill, Zathros... they brought it all upon themselves with their actions during the LAPCO days, and frankly I'm surprised ANY positive comments have been made about them. Look at what happened:

They first appeared just after Polar Lights made a big splash in the retro-kit-building community. They made a lot of bold announcements, took money from people, kept experiencing "delays in production", then disappeared... with a lot of paid orders unfilled, and no refunds issued. I know, they claim the missing money was due to "partners".... but the fact that EVERYONE in LAPCO's "chain of command" vanished without any attempt to explain or get refunds out makes them ALL look bad.

Now, after several years of dead silence from that front... Moebius and Monarch models start up, get kits on the hobby store shelves that harken back to the old Aurora days & get the community all fired up again... and suddenly the former LAPCO crew pops up again. Once again, announcements of "original Aurora molds" etc. etc.... then a production delay... then ANOTHER production delay.... and still no effort to reimburse those that got money taken by their company last time, just "it wasn't our fault, sorry, you're out of luck."

Whatever their actual motives, their actions don't paint a pretty picture. No amount of P.R. will change that.


----------



## Roy Kirchoff

You nailed that coffin shut Mike, well said.


RK


----------



## spe130

Frankie Boy said:


> Just to get things straight (while muttering under my breath that this has to be the most inane thread I've ever read), Zathros said "what I've seen with my own eyes". I've lost, in the over 100 posts to this thread, what exactly Zathros saw — besides the two bagged/boxed plane models and an inventory book.


From post #1 in this thread (which it would have been easy enough to refer to):


Zathros said:


> It looks as if The Return of Aurora Plastics corp is indeed happening..I called
> thier offices last week, and had a very long conversation with DR Gennaro Giammarino, the VP there..I was wondering why thier releases were late , and of course wondering about how authentic all of this was , with the LAPCO fiasco that happened a few years back..He invited me to thier offices, and provided me with 2 releases just waiting for decals and instruction sheets..In addition, I was also invited to the warehouse this coming week..According to him, there will be some VERY pleasant surprises in store..I also got a look at the test shot for the Aurora Captain kidd Pirate, and a few knights..He is VERY aware that the hobby public is suspicious from the Lapco thing, and now that the company is family owned , he states all product will indeed be forthcomimg..
> 
> Heres some pics of the first aircraft releases...so I am confident from what I have seen..that they will produce product..I also saw the test shot of Spartacus..The point he stressed was that Aurora had more than one mold of thier kits, and Monogram only bought one of each..he states he has many of the duplicate Molds..not ALL, but many..I got a look at the mold inventory book..and it looks as if that is so..in any case,,it looks good..I will post more as I get it


Looks like Zathros saw the bagged and boxed Fokker kits (it seems rather expensive to run off new boxes and instruction sheets to cheat people when they aren't accepting any money...), test shots of Captain Kidd, Spartacus, and a couple of Knights, and the mold inventory book.

As far as the LAPCO thing goes, if it was set up as a corporation which then went bankrupt, any investors are likely SOL.


----------



## Frankie Boy

spe130: 

Thanks for finding and providing that info. And you're right, it would have been easy enough to refer to, but I got lost in what I thought were corrections to that original post. And quite honestly, I didn't have the patience to scan through all subsequent posts to verify that (as it turns out, false) assumption. So, thank you again. 
But I think it still begs the question: Are any of the test shots Zathros saw, or the inventory book for that matter, actually new?


----------



## Zorro

Oh, I would think the inventory book is _very_ old.


----------



## Admiral Nelson

Someone put this thread out of it's misery.


----------



## buzzconroy

wonder how the warehouse and mold tour went on Friday?

Buzz


----------



## razorwyre1

buzzconroy said:


> wonder how the warehouse and mold tour went on Friday?
> 
> Buzz


indeed.. the silence is deafening.


----------



## Scott Hasty

I came in at the end of the LAPCO fiasco [but have read the back history]. Is this basically how it happened, except of course _most_ (read MOST) of us are wiser and realistic about this happening?

I for one believe that silence is consent. Since my last post a lot of people have brought out inconsistencies and realisms, yet no rebuttals? If I was hired to be in a PR position, I would be VERY timely and careful in the dissemination of information. I see none of that here.

Please correct me if I'm wrong with the information currently given. If it walks like a duck....


----------



## Steve244

Zathros said:


> This coming Friday (edit: Friday 12/21/07) I am going to thier warehouse and taking pics of the produced planes en masse..and seeing whatever else thay have there..I am aware that MY OWN credibility is at risk, and I already told them that..


how long do we wait before filing a missing person report?


----------



## Scott Hasty

Steve244 said:


> how long do we wait before filing a missing person report?


As long as we wait for these re-popped kits....


----------



## Steve244

and when the kits do appear with a mysterious "auroma" we'll have zathros to thank!


----------



## Zorro

We have now crossed over into ...


----------



## 1bluegtx

beck said:


> on the melting down of the molds . ya don't sell Beryllium to a junk yard !!
> 500 mg of Be foil ( that's a half a gram ! ) sells for a little over 600 $ . you can get 50 grams of slivers for @ 320 $ .
> so if a company isn't making any money off the tool it's well worth it to
> separate out the Be and sell it .
> hb


I worked in injection molding for years.The mold inserts are made out of beryllium copper (less then 1% beryllium,just makes the copper hard and resistant to abrasion,corrosion,etc.)
I should also add that all the years and hundreds of molds i worked with i never saw one scrapped.(not saying it never happened but i highly doubt it)the mold blanks that they start out with are just worth too much money to throw away.
But what i have seen is that when molds are stored in a warehouse the company has to pay inventory TAXES on the molds.So sometimes molds cannot be found for obvious reasons.

BRIAN


----------



## frankenstyrene

Zorro said:


> We have now crossed over into ...


You mean _just_ now?!


----------



## frankenstyrene

To be fair to my 10% optimism, Zathros may just be caught up in family festivities and the like, y'know?


----------



## Zorro

frankenstyrene said:


> To be fair to my 10% optimism, Zathros may just be caught up in family festivities and the like, y'know?


Or filed next to Jimmy Hoffa in that warehouse in Jersey? One's about as likely as the other at this point.


----------



## Frankie Boy

To, indeed, be fair — as opposed to gullible — I was thinking exactly the same thing as frankenstyrene.


----------



## wolfman66

Zathros any updates on how your tour went at Aurora?


----------



## Zorro

Oh Zathros? Any word? We're losing our faith in Santa Claus.


----------



## unkljune

is there a website to check out?


----------



## Zorro

unkljune said:


> is there a website to check out?


 








http://www.auroraplasticscorp.com/


----------



## wolfman66

The only thing it seems Aurora is making is annoucements and release dates but no kits!


----------



## Zorro

wolfman66 said:


> The only thing it seems Aurora is making is annoucements and release dates but no kits!


Yep. And you would think their new P.R. person, who started this whole thread and is a long-time member of this board, and who promised to "keep us posted", would want to comment on that. But we've heard absolutely nothing in over a week.

It's almost like somebody wished him into a cornfield.


----------



## dpluta

Time to admit that this is just a bunch of bull. LAPCO not withstanding, this venture has no credibility and is just plain dumb to boot. Their choice of initial kits is downright stupid. I have no intention of buying any of them. There are no long-lost molds. The LAPCO guys that stole all that money in the past, are out to get more. If that does not turn out to be true, these guys will be broke long before they get to re-releasing any of the kits people really want to see (and buy). Poor Zathros got sucked in. I feel bad for him. He probably stood a better chance of getting old Aurora kits released by starting up his third business and doing it himself. If these guys had any business sense, they would have surveyed us about what kits we'd be willing to buy, long before going into production. The Pogo and Fokkers would not even make my list. The Vampire kit? Come on, is anyone really interested in that? Aurora was famous for it's movie and TV figures and vehicles. Why didn't they get the original Spider-man kit out when Spidey 3 came out? That would have been a great tie-in and no decals would be involved. The same for the new Batman and Superman movies. These guys are full of it, and if they're not, they are the worst business people in the industry.


----------



## frankenstyrene

Or...

...it could be a clever ploy.

A calculated silence at exactly this point would produce exactly the effect it is having - _heightened emotional investment. _Positive or negative doesn't matter. We're curious. We're watching and waiting. They got us all by the short hairs, whether we believe kits are coming or not. 

Legit or not, the new Aurora is Pavlov, Z's their bellringer, and we're the slobbering dogs.

Or...

...because Z has been a member here for so long (and ONLY for that reason), I choose to still give him the benefit of the doubt. I say he, as well as the Aurora folks, are currently wrapped up in their own family goings-on, rather than worrying that a bunch of guys (myself included) on a message board are past getting testy. Occam's Razor: the simplest explanation is probably the right one. At this point the holiday explanation seems simplest to me.

Or...

...as I've truly believed from the start - despite 10% optimism - it's all a prank.


----------



## buzzconroy

Well the Vampire is a great kit actually I built a few, the detail is a painters dream, but the reason why its so popular cuase of the rareity, btw the frog and vampire are part of the aurora monster series.But I agree, they should reissue the apache,raider,man from uncles, but this company will never take off.No proper website. no dealers taking pre orders, even if they had molds, the cost would be so exspensive to repair and clean them, they are having mongram to reissue the phantom and prisoner, ebay is flooded with theses, and the bi planes that are still availble from revel germany. oh pleeeees.Sorry had to vent again.
buzz


----------



## dpluta

Sorry about being so judgmental buzz. The Frog and Vampire kits are not what I'm looking for from these guys (and certainly not in resin), but I'm sure there's a handful out there that like them. However, I dont think it's near poular enough for them to make any real money form it. If this is for real, there's simply too many other kits that they should be producing to get the company off the ground. I assume they're doing this for money and to stay in it for the long-haul. 

As far as Z goes, he started all of this and he needs to be ready to take some heat. If he's being paid to spread A Corp's message, then I say it's time for him to get back to work and fill us in. Xmas is over. Also, I want to see molds, not a mold book. What does that prove? I think he made his visit and has no idea how to tell us that this is no better than LAPCO.


----------



## wolfman66

Zorro said:


> Yep. And you would think their new P.R. person, who started this whole thread and is a long-time member of this board, and who promised to "keep us posted", would want to comment on that. But we've heard absolutely nothing in over a week.
> 
> It's almost like somebody wished him into a cornfield.


Hey maybe the Aurora guys have him tied up somewhere so he cant tell us what really is going on and there true plans to screw us again if we give them the chance to wich we will not let them this time around!


----------



## Arronax

Simmer down, folks.

I think we should all wait until December 19 rolls around and see what happens.

Oh, wait . . . that was a week ago. Drat, I guess I don't have as much time as I thought to finish off the Christmas shopping.

I think the batteries in my calendar must be dead.

Jim


----------



## Mark McGovern

Zorro said:


> ...you would think their new P.R. person, who started this whole thread and is a long-time member of this board, and who promised to "keep us posted", would want to comment on that [The only thing it seems Aurora is making is annoucements and release dates but no kits!]


Gentlemen, let us not forget that we've only just gotten past the Christmas Season and that could be why Zathros and the "A-corp" folks (who *as we've* *been told* are starting this business on the side) are too busy to post anything new as yet. Certainly the new Aurora outfit must bear the stain of the LAPCO fiasco; but on the other hand, even the most reputable model manufacturers tend to miss their announced release dates. And up till now, I personally haven't seen anything to impugn the integrity of Zathros.




dpluta said:


> ...The LAPCO guys that stole all that money in the past, are out to get more...


 Actually no money has changed hands yet, that I know of. No real harm has been done by either this new "A-corp" group or Zathros, except for making us all overanxious about the possiblity of getting these kits. I suggest we all possess ourselves in patience while we work on the latest Monarch and Moebius releases. Not to mention the dozens of older dust catchers that are piled in our stashes.



frankenstyrene said:


> ...it could be a clever ploy...


I doubt that, frankie. If there's one aspect about this new "company" that we can all agree on, it's their poor public relations. That web site has been an eyesore from Day One, and this business of announcing release dates that they cannot meet is just asking for trouble. Especially with their dark past to overcome.

Frankly, I'm willing to wait until we get the straight poop from either the A-corp people or Zathros before I pass judgment on this venture. Otherwise I for one will just be spinning my wheels in fretting over the issue. Sorry, but I have _much_ better stuff to be fretting over.

Mark McG.


----------



## Zorro

Oh, I'm not fretting at all. Apparently, "The Book of Molds" is in very good hands.


----------



## mrmurph

I tend to agree with Mark on this. Let's see if anything happens, and expend not another erg of energy worrying over the new Aurora. We have terrific kits on shelves now, and even more coming. Of these we can be certain. 
The only thing that sets off alarm bells for me is the notice for "setting up an account" on the new Aurora website. I have no idea what setting up an account entails, but I personally would never give any financial information to anyone. I don't even have a Paypal Account. Call me a suspicious old curmudgeon, but I don't trust computers to keep financial information safe. And I sure as heck wouldn't "set up an account" of any kind with a company just starting out or with people whom I'd been cautioned were affiliated with questionable business practices. 
It sounds like some of our members and friends lost more than hope in the LAPCO fiasco. 
I've been wrong before, and I'd love to be wrong here. If this new Aurora company puts desirable kits in my hands, I'll gladly eat a healthy portion of crow. 
We'll just wait and see. But in the meantime, I can't wait for Monarch's Ghost and Moebius' Invisible Man.


----------



## wolfman66

mrmurph said:


> I tend to agree with Mark on this. Let's see if anything happens, and expend not another erg of energy worrying over the new Aurora. We have terrific kits on shelves now, and even more coming. Of these we can be certain.
> The only thing that sets off alarm bells for me is the notice for "setting up an account" on the new Aurora website. I have no idea what setting up an account entails, but I personally would never give any financial information to anyone. I don't even have a Paypal Account. Call me a suspicious old curmudgeon, but I don't trust computers to keep financial information safe. And I sure as heck wouldn't "set up an account" of any kind with a company just starting out or with people whom I'd been cautioned were affiliated with questionable business practices.
> It sounds like some of our members and friends lost more than hope in the LAPCO fiasco.
> I've been wrong before, and I'd love to be wrong here. If this new Aurora company puts desirable kits in my hands, I'll gladly eat a healthy portion of crow.
> We'll just wait and see. But in the meantime, I can't wait for Monarch's Ghost and Moebius' Invisible Man.


I agree with ya 100%! :thumbsup:


----------



## frankenstyrene

Mark,

I'm being cynical and disbelieving -about 90%. It's a clever ploy IF they have no intention of producing anything and this has been a prank (that they've asked for no money yet still has me leaning that way). I want to be optimistic but NOBODY in this day and age can be THAT incompetent with all the assets and experience they claim to have. Monarch and Moebius both blow them away on every possible level. No offense to M and M, but they can make their businesses fly from scratch (essentially) but the inheritors of legendary Aurora CAN'T? I don't believe it.

Of course the question then becomes, "Why the HECK would anyone play such a prank?" On that, you got me - I can't fathom it because my mind doesn't work that way.

Personally, if they don't announce something of verifiable substance within a business week from New Year's (when everyone's back to work), my optimism drops back to zero and I'll assume Z was suckered.


----------



## dpluta

I truly dont think it's a prank and I have to assume that people have better things to do than simply stroke their egos. It's beginning to sound like they cant handle the workload, with this being a "side venture." Or they dont have any money.

I never was holding my breath for this. I think we saw the last Aurora revival with Polar Lights. Maybe A Corp was hoping for an outside investor or something like that. If Zathros comes back with a picture of a mold book and no pictures of actual molds, then we can be pretty much assured that this is a lot of hot air. 

If they do have molds, we're likely not going to see anything that has a pricey licensing fee attached to it. It doesn't sound like these guys have any capital. That's why they seem to be on the verge of releasing Pogo and Fokkers. I also dont understand why they need Zathros as a mouthpiece. Giarammino cant come to HobbyTalk and have an open forum? After all, it's his company. Doesn't he want the support of the hobby community? None of it makes any sense. Judgment has been passed


----------



## frankenstyrene

dpluta said:


> I truly dont think it's a prank and I have to assume that people have better things to do than simply stroke their egos.


I really would like to think that's true, but stupider things have happened. At this point, honest incompetence seems less likely, imo, for the very reasons you stated. We'll see what we see, tho.


----------



## Zorro

Submitted for your approval: In tonight's episode we undertake a journey to the distant past. Our destination? August, 2007. The reason for our journey? To ascertain why certain hobbyists and collectors, despite any real evidence and contrary to their own common sense, persist in holding on to a certain dream. Come with us now as we learn that history most definitely _does_ repeat itself .... in The Twilight Zone.

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=193980


----------



## wolfman66

Zorro said:


> Submitted for your approval: In tonight's episode we undertake a journey to the distant past. Our destination? August, 2007. The reason for our journey? To ascertain why certain hobbyists and collectors, despite any real evidence and contrary to their own common sense, persist in holding on to a certain dream. Come with us now as we learn that history most definitely _does_ repeat itself .... in The Twilight Zone.
> 
> http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=193980


LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## g_xii

Zorro said:


> Submitted for your approval: In tonight's episode we undertake a journey to the distant past. Our destination? August, 2007. The reason for our journey? To ascertain why certain hobbyists and collectors, despite any real evidence and contrary to their own common sense, persist in holding on to a certain dream. Come with us now as we learn that history most definitely _does_ repeat itself .... in The Twilight Zone.
> 
> http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=193980


Zorro --

That's just TOO funny! 

I've been holding back on posting anything, and granted, maybe because I am in the computer industry I'm more sensitive to this, but... is it just ME, or is the "A" website the worst design you have ever seen? 

Blurry photos, blurry logos, the "list" of kits looks like a copy of a copy of a copy that can been converted (poorly) into a .PDF file and then back into a .JPG file and put on the website ... do I have to go on? 
I've seen CHILDREN do more professional websites. A lot of website design has to do with one's capibility to be artistic and creative, but even lacking that, almost anyone should be able to take a simple picture and make it somewhat clear... 

And... I'm not even going to say much about their logo... but couldn't they have gone with something somewhat SIMILAR to the old logo? Or something that at least puts the public in mind of the old company? Whoever bought the copywrite for the old logo does not own all the letters in the alphabet... why not continue to use the AURORA name and just give it an updated logo?
I'm sorry, but these points alone and by themselves leave me smelling something that smells suspiciously like the stuff that comes out of my dog's rear end...

But, on the other hand, what a LIVELY thread it has been!

--Henry


----------



## wolfman66

g_xii said:


> Zorro --
> 
> That's just TOO funny!
> 
> I've been holding back on posting anything, and granted, maybe because I am in the computer industry I'm more sensitive to this, but... is it just ME, or is the "A" website the worst design you have ever seen?
> 
> Blurry photos, blurry logos, the "list" of kits looks like a copy of a copy of a copy that can been converted (poorly) into a .PDF file and then back into a .JPG file and put on the website ... do I have to go on?
> I've seen CHILDREN do more professional websites. A lot of website design has to do with one's capibility to be artistic and creative, but even lacking that, almost anyone should be able to take a simple picture and make it somewhat clear...
> 
> And... I'm not even going to say much about their logo... but couldn't they have gone with something somewhat SIMILAR to the old logo? Or something that at least puts the public in mind of the old company? Whoever bought the copywrite for the old logo does not own all the letters in the alphabet... why not continue to use the AURORA name and just give it an updated logo?
> I'm sorry, but these points alone and by themselves leave me smelling something that smells suspiciously like the stuff that comes out of my dog's rear end...
> 
> But, on the other hand, what a LIVELY thread it has been!
> 
> --Henry


Henry well put !


----------



## Frankie Boy

"Whoever bought the copyright for the old logo does not own all the letters in the alphabet... why not continue to use the AURORA name and just give it an updated logo?"

Say what? A corporate name (attached to a logo or not) is a trademarkable item, and an infringement if used without permission or licensing. I can't set up a hamburger shop and call it MacDonald's if all I've done is remove the golden arches from the signage. 

When these goofs first announced their re-emergence, they were, in fact, using the Aurora name but with an older Aurora logo. I suspect that somewhere along the line, the prank hit a bit of a snag when they realized they could get their gluteous maximi sued off if they did not cease and desist with the Aurora name and logo, hence the birth of A Corp.


----------



## scotpens

g_xii said:


> ... I'm not even going to say much about their logo... but couldn't they have gone with something somewhat SIMILAR to the old logo? Or something that at least puts the public in mind of the old company? Whoever bought the copywrite for the old logo does not own all the letters in the alphabet... why not continue to use the AURORA name and just give it an updated logo?


It's my understanding that the Aurora name and logo are tied up legally. But they certainly could have come up with something better than that cheesy "A Corp" thing. Polar Lights, Moebius and Monarch all managed to come up with oval logos reminiscent of the old Aurora mark without infringing on anyone's copyright.

[IMG-LEFT]http://www.tvguide.com/images/pgimg/rod-serling1.jpg[/IMG-LEFT]


_There's an old adage that bears repeating: "Fool me one, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me." A lesson that sometimes can only be learned by taking a brief journey into. . . The Twilight Zone._


----------



## g_xii

scotpens said:


> It's my understanding that the Aurora name and logo are tied up legally. But they certainly could have come up with something better than that cheesy "A Corp" thing. Polar Lights, Moebius and Monarch all managed to come up with oval logos reminiscent of the old Aurora mark without infringing on anyone's copyright.
> 
> [IMG-LEFT]http://www.tvguide.com/images/pgimg/rod-serling1.jpg[/IMG-LEFT]
> 
> 
> _There's an old adage that bears repeating: "Fool me one, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me." A lesson that sometimes can only be learned by taking a brief journey into. . . The Twilight Zone._


OK -- there was a LOT of _stuff_ to read here, so I might have misunderstood a few things.... I don't see how anyone can own the name "Aurora" unless it is standalone and in a very similar logo. Nothing wrong with a small "The" and a small "Plastics Corporation" above and below a LARGE "AURORA". As for logos, if you have a 25% difference, then my understanding is it's legal. How may cans of "cola" in the grocery store under their own brand name are in red cans very similar in appearance to COKE? 

I'm not a lawyer, so I don't know the law, but there has to be SOME way to get the message across BETTER. It's pathetic as is.

And, they have GOT to do something about one of the lamest websites on the planet! And ... FIX THAT LOGO!

All just my humble 'ole opinion from out in Needmore, PA, 'a 'course... 

--Henry


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## Frankie Boy

"Cola" is a generic name for a certain type of soft drink. Hence, there is Coca Cola, Pepsi Cola, and RC Cola. In the same manner that "tissue" is a generic name for a particular paper product. Hence, you can have Kleenex Tissue, Scott Tissue, and Delsey Tissue. 

You can copyright/trademark Coke, Pepsi and RC in combination with Cola but you couldn't trademark "Cola" just by itself. Same thing would apply to "Tissue". 

The "essential" element of the name, and the product to which it applies, is where copyright/trademark infringement disputes take place. Therefore, you could quite easily have a Coca Paint Company, or a Scott Tire Company. Likewise, you could have an Aurora Furniture Moving Company. But you couldn't have an(other) Aurora plastic model company because the essential element of the name would be applied to a product too close to what the trademark holder of the Aurora name would already have secured when it comes to plastic models. And I believe somebody does indeed hold the copyright/trademark on the Aurora name (as it applies to plastic models).


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## scotpens

Frankie Boy said:


> "Cola" is a generic name for a certain type of soft drink. Hence, there is Coca Cola, Pepsi Cola, and RC Cola. In the same manner that "tissue" is a generic name for a particular paper product.


That's true today, but it was not always thus. The generic status of the word "cola" wasn't firmly established as a matter of law until the 1940s.
1930s Coke vs. Pepsi 



Frankie Boy said:


> . . . Therefore, you could quite easily have a Coca Paint Company, or a Scott Tire Company.


Hmmm. . . sounds like VERY interesting paint!


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## John P

g_xii - no swearing on this board, please. The owner wants to keep it family-friendly.

And ya think ya can't copyright or trademark the bname of a company? Try starting up a car company and name it Ford, or a movie studio and name it Paramount, see what happens to ya.


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## beck

speaking of getting sued , i think that's the only reson these guys started this fiasco . as said in a previous post, they didn't reappear until M&M started putting kits out . 
and i seem to recall some of A corp's first statements to be something to the affect that " we own everything Aurora etc . and made vague threats of taking legal action . 
sorry , when the dude's grandpa sold the company, Nabisco got everything Aurora . and i think we know where things went from there . 
hb


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## Mark McGovern

*Eh - ?*

All the legalese being thrown around caused me to go back and check the site's current claims. This is what appears at present:

*The A Plastics Corp. Line Logo is a Trademark of Aurora Plastics Corporation. All Rights Reserved.*

I'm not sure just how these guys think they can call themselves the Aurora Plastics Corporation even though they're using (or rather, posting pictures of) their "A Plastics Corp." logo on model boxes. We've been looking askance at the "A Corp's" web master and public relations people, but I think their legal beagle isn't performing well either.

Mark McG.


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## MadCap Romanian

WAIT!!!!! If Nabisco owns Aurora Molds, then what happened to them? Maybe we should be sending our letters to Capt'n Crunch?


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## MadCap Romanian

Hmmm....I also wonder if anyone's going to get the Forgotten Prisioner and Blackbeard. They ship in 2 days....apperantly!


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## Mark McGovern

MCR,

You mad Canadian Romanian! Nabisco couldn't make a profit from the Aurora line, so they sold it to Monogram. Some of the molds got parceled out to other firms like K-B, but most of the stuff _we _like is owned by Revellogram.

Mark McGee, if you don't have an enormous handlebar mustache, MCR, you should grow one!


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## scotpens

Frankie Boy said:


> The "essential" element of the name, and the product to which it applies, is where copyright/trademark infringement disputes take place. Therefore, you could quite easily have a Coca Paint Company, or a Scott Tire Company. Likewise, you could have an Aurora Furniture Moving Company. But you couldn't have an(other) Aurora plastic model company because the essential element of the name would be applied to a product too close to what the trademark holder of the Aurora name would already have secured when it comes to plastic models.





John P said:


> . . . And ya think ya can't copyright or trademark the bname of a company? Try starting up a car company and name it Ford, or a movie studio and name it Paramount, see what happens to ya.


That's exactly the point Frankie Boy was making. There's no problem with having a Paramount Laundromat or a Ford Modeling Agency (which, come to think of it, actually exists).


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## Zorro

Mark McGovern said:


> We've been looking askance at the "A Corp's" web master and public relations people, but I think their legal beagle isn't performing well either.
> 
> Mark McG.


To be fair, A-Corp's legal council is operating at a distinct disavantage.


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## Mark McGovern

*Enough with the Twilight Zone stills already!!!* What - you guys work for the Sci-Fi Channel or something?

Mark McGeez, those marathons are getting to be enough to send me into the arms of PBS - !


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## frankenstyrene

Serious questions for anyone with knowledge to answer them:

1. Assuming for a moment that the family really has molds: Were the legal rights to everything Aurora was and did bought by Nabisco? If so, wouldn't the family have to reacquire the rights, from whoever now has them* [Revellogram?]*, to use what they say they have? 

2. About this mold inventory allegedly showing duplicates. Wouldn't Nabisco's suits have used a fine tooth comb to look for just such a thing at the buyout? 

3. If you were Revellogram - or whoever in 2007 has rights to all things Aurora (kits, logos, etc) - and you hear that there were secret duplicate molds that are now going to produce something only you are supposed to produce... what would YOU do?


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## Steve CultTVman Iverson

He WHO controls the MOLDS rules the world.


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## dpluta

Yes, these are the important questions. I think it's very telling that there is not one mention of any of the TV, comic, or movie kits on the site. The only mention is...

THE MONSTER CLASSICS COLLECTION TM is a Trademark of Aurora Plastics Corporation. All Rights Reserved.

Which monsters? Did Revellogram give them back the rights to the Universal monsters? Doubt it. These guys *may* be releasing some kits at some point in time, but it seems apparent that they will not be re-releasing any of the *star* kits like Man From Uncle, 2001, Marvel or DC characters, etc. 

I'm sure Revellogram will be quite interested to hear about these "lost molds." This has been a fascinating thread. I only wish we really were seeing the revivial of Aurora. Sadly, I think if anything does happen, it will be limited to the release of second-rate kits from a second-rate business. 





frankenstyrene said:


> Serious questions for anyone with knowledge to answer them:
> 
> 1. Assuming for a moment that the family really has molds: Were the legal rights to everything Aurora was and did bought by Nabisco? If so, wouldn't the family have to reacquire the rights, from whoever now has them* [Revellogram?]*, to use what they say they have?
> 
> 2. About this mold inventory allegedly showing duplicates. Wouldn't Nabisco's suits have used a fine tooth comb to look for just such a thing at the buyout?
> 
> 3. If you were Revellogram - or whoever in 2007 has rights to all things Aurora (kits, logos, etc) - and you hear that there were secret duplicate molds that are now going to produce something only you are supposed to produce... what would YOU do?


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## Zorro

Mark McGovern said:


> *Enough with the Twilight Zone stills already!!!* What - you guys work for the Sci-Fi Channel or something?
> 
> Mark McGeez, those marathons are getting to be enough to send me into the arms of PBS - !


Mark - ironically, I _actually_ work for PBS. Here's a pic of A-Corp's brand new updated logo for 2008, followed by a candid photo of a couple of A-Corp staff with one of the "lost" Aurora molds at the warehouse in New Jersey. Hope you like 'em!


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## THRUSH Central

Yep! He DOES work for PBS! Only they would care to have access to "things" like that! (Or Dr. Who) Makes me shiver worse than "Freaks". THRUSH

Incidentally, no news from my end either. The check sits and waits. No emails, only silence. For what it's worth I say take it easy on our friend "Z". He did go farther to try to verify than we all have. I just wrote and waited. He went and tried. Maybe his silence is from realizing what we all suspected and some hoped (me) wouldn't be true. Dreams die hard. Some of us wanted to believe again perhaps silencing our own internal dissent from what we guessed was probably true. Which one of us hasn't been in his shoes before if we are honest with ourselves. Like me. Like you? As John Lennon said, "And sometimes I play the fool." C'mon ease up on the guy. I will still wait and let the "pudding prove" with time. I had such hopes... THRUSH.


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## Admiral Nelson

This falls in the I tried to tell you but you wouldn't listen file.


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## frankenstyrene

Thrush, Z's being a known quantity here is the only reason I developed what little optimism I have/had. If he comes back and says he was misled, I for one won't lose any respect for him or jump him. Like you say, he did try.


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## Admiral Nelson

THRUSH Central said:


> Actually that's seven words as your use of the contraction includes the abbreviated and understood "is". I love a mystery! I still have my check ready to mail. I ordered 6 of each of the initial kit offerings. As soon as I get the word, and kits, the check is theirs! Christmas is SUCH an exciting time! Maybe, just maybe, we might be able to "go home again". THRUSH.


I thought you mailed them a check months ago. What gives?


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## scotpens

Zorro said:


> Mark - ironically, I _actually_ work for PBS. Here's a pic of A-Corp's brand new updated logo for 2008, followed by a candid photo of a couple of A-Corp staff with one of the "lost" Aurora molds at the warehouse in New Jersey. Hope you like 'em!


Which one is the gay one?


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## Admiral Nelson

God almighty, you folks love to dance. History repeats itself and like the return of the little birds to Capistrano every Spring, this Aurora thing comes back time and time again. They have a few airplane kits. So what? Anyone seen any real molds? If not, give it a friggin rest already.


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## THRUSH Central

No, Admiral. I didn't. What I did was order and wait. That's when I told "the board" that I would order, wait, and let ya'll know IF the models indeed came. If they did I WOULD have the check ready to send. If it went that far, and a "sacrificial lamb" was needed to see the process through I volunteered to see if it was safe for everyone to "jump in the water". I was, and am, fully aware of the past but if it was (is) legit, SOMEONE would have to be the first to trust, so I've always been willing to take a chance. Remember the slogan of the British SAS - "He who dares, wins". (And the Alfred E. Neuman "take" on this - " He who dares might get burned - badly". "Let each man be convinced in his own mind.." THRUSH


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## MadCap Romanian

Thrush....you did good!


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## Admiral Nelson

THRUSH Central said:


> No, Admiral. I didn't. What I did was order and wait. That's when I told "the board" that I would order, wait, and let ya'll know IF the models indeed came. If they did I WOULD have the check ready to send. If it went that far, and a "sacrificial lamb" was needed to see the process through I volunteered to see if it was safe for everyone to "jump in the water". I was, and am, fully aware of the past but if it was (is) legit, SOMEONE would have to be the first to trust, so I've always been willing to take a chance. Remember the slogan of the British SAS - "He who dares, wins". (And the Alfred E. Neuman "take" on this - " He who dares might get burned - badly". "Let each man be convinced in his own mind.." THRUSH


All I know is what you posted:

Sending form and check in tomorrow. The rest is just "wait and see". Thrush.
09-26-2007, 09:46 AM 
http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/member.php?u=12362 
Update - Order was sent in for kits. (Multiple sets of each) We all now wait and see what transpires. Thrush.







10-01-2007, 05:15 PM 


​


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## Zorro

Admiral Nelson said:


> God almighty, you folks love to dance.


Yeah! This thread is already almost _half_ as long as the "1/350 K'Tinga" thread on the Sci-Fi board!


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## Zorro

frankenstyrene said:


> If he comes back and says he was misled, I for one won't lose any respect for him or jump him. Like you say, he did try.


I feel the same way. But _avoiding_ this thread after he started the whole thing up again is a different matter. 

A wise man once said; "Those who undertake foolish ventures - shouldn't be so damned sensitive on the back end."

I think it was Rod Serling who said that.


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## Arronax

I really can't wait until they make a movie of this thread. Who do you see playing Zathros?

Jim


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## MadCap Romanian

Perhaps Capt'n Crunch!


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## frankenstyrene

Arronax said:


> I really can't wait until they make a movie of this thread. Who do you see playing Zathros?
> 
> Jim


 Worst case scenario: Kevin Spacey (think Kaiser Soze). 

But I'm still willing to think he's out of town for the holiday or something...from his other posts he didn't strike me as the type to go ghost. But he's been here longer than I, and you guys know him better. We'll see.


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## razorwyre1

g_xii said:


> OK -- there was a LOT of _stuff_if you have a 25% difference, then my understanding is it's legal


thats a common misconception, and untrue. (apparently it was at one time, but not anymore.) the rule is this: if a reasonable person thinks that the artwork (logo, character design, whatever) is supposed to be a representation/ facsimile of the trademarked/copyrighted thing then it is in violation of the owners rights. (here's a good hypothetical example from my own profession: lets say theres a mask with the top of the head flattened off, some sort of hardware protruding from the sides, and a heavy brow. now the makers of that mask have been careful not to make that hardware electrodes and have placed them anywhere but the neck, and it has no scars at all. just for grins, lets eliminate the hair, but keep the flattened off cranium. if a reasonable person (read judge or jury member) looks at that hypothetical mask and says "thats frankenstein", then the maker of that mask will be found to be in violation of universal's rights of the character.) there is no formula of X number or percentage of changes that will protect the violator; it comes down to intent. (when i am not retailing halloween stuff on the internet, i am designing masks and decorations for one of the major players in the industry, and over the years have had to deal with "borrowing" a design concept from another source (not for my current benefactor, but in the past), so although i am not a lawyer, ive had to deal with these rules.)

back to the topic of the thread, it could be that zathros is contractually barred from posting about this at the present time. zathros, if you are reading this, and that is not the case, please check in with us, even if it is to say that you have nothing to report and wish to remain silent until you do. (if that is the case, im not sure how you could inform us of that without breaking that agreement.) on the other hand if you have been conned by these guys, no one here is going to hold it against you, in fact quite the reverse as you will have exposed them. however, the longer your silence goes on is making the whole thing look worse for them by the second.


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## frankenstyrene

razorwyre1 said:


> zathros, if you are reading this, and that is not the case, please check in with us, even if it is to say that you have nothing to report and wish to remain silent until you do. (if that is the case, im not sure how you could inform us of that without breaking that agreement.) on the other hand if you have been conned by these guys, no one here is going to hold it against you, in fact quite the reverse as you will have exposed them.


 :thumbsup:


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## MadCap Romanian

Tom Hanks for the movie, playing a timid model builder who gets dupped. Let's call him.....Modler Gump.


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## Dave Metzner

Hey guys, I think that the horse has stopped exhibiting any signs of life, we can stop beating the poor animal any time now!


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## phrankenstign

Dave Metzner said:


> Hey guys, I think that the horse has stopped exhibiting any signs of life...


I think he's just pining for the fiords!

Maybe mrdean can make his acting debut as Zathros.


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## John P

phrankenstign said:


> I think he's just pining for the fiords!


 One could start a "Fiord" car manufacturer without getting sued!


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## Admiral Nelson

Dave Metzner said:


> Hey guys, I think that the horse has stopped exhibiting any signs of life, we can stop beating the poor animal any time now!


You know as well as I do that no post here dies a natural death. This one is 14 pages and counting. Pretty good for the 90th "Aurora is coming back" dog and pony show post.


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## xsavoie

Let's just say adios to this thread.Put it out of it's misery,please.


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## MadCap Romanian

Just do a good, ol' fashioned "Locked Thread" post.

Wait a week and then we'll get a whole new "Lapco is back" thread.

Chow!


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## THRUSH Central

Admiral - Right! I did post that AND I was told by them to hold "the chicken salad and just bring me the toast". Hence the wording of the second part of the two postings that you listed. THRUSH.


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## frankenstyrene

MadCap Romanian said:


> Chow!


You hungry? Me too!


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## Barnabas Collin

Hi Guys,
I opened a dealer account with Aurora and gave them my credit card # and social security # and combination to my vintage model safe.
Did I do the right thing?


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## fluke

Hmmmm...lets see.....you forgot to add your bank account number, its routing number, a list of names of all your pets, your home address and where you hide your spare house and car keys. slacker!  

OH yeah....Welcome to Hobby Talk :wave:


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## John P

DNA sample. Don't forget the DNA sample.


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## frankenstyrene

*snap* goes the rubber glove...


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## Barnabas Collin

Actually I was given the DNA sample ouch !!!!!!!!!!!


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## scotpens

MadCap Romanian said:


> Chow!





frankenstyrene said:


> You hungry? Me too!


It's "ciao," but what do you expect -- he's Romanian, not Italian!

I could go for some Chinese myself right about now.


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## Dave Metzner

Ok!
The Horse is dead y'all can put your riding crops away,to continue beating the poor dead beast will get you nowhere.
I'm sure Zanthros knows how to start a new thread if he has amazing good news.
In the mean time this thread is locked!

Dave


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