# Mod Arms That Look Stock!!!



## jonnycash (Feb 10, 2005)

Where Can I Find A 20 Or 21 Turn Single, With Stock Tags That Looks Like A Stock Arm... I Don't Want To Cheat I Want To Prove That Some One Is Cheating. Any Ideas


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## racerrandy (Nov 23, 2002)

If you are racing and want to prove someone is cheating,most race tracks have a protest system. Usually you pay about the price of a stock motor, they tear the motor down and inspect it. If he or she is cheating, you get you money back. If they were'nt, you lose your money. 


Later,RAndy


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## patcollins (Sep 29, 2001)

jonnycash said:


> Where Can I Find A 20 Or 21 Turn Single, With Stock Tags That Looks Like A Stock Arm... I Don't Want To Cheat I Want To Prove That Some One Is Cheating. Any Ideas


Nobody sells anything like that. You can however make one. You take a stock arm, remove the tag carefully, rewind the arm and replace the tag.


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## tommckay (Sep 26, 2001)

It's amazing what people will do to win or be competitive.... Why not just practice more? I hate cheaters & people that use the letter of the rule and not the spirit of it.


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## KevinDog (Sep 24, 2001)

If your track does not have a formal protest rule....

Find a few other racers that think this motor is a cheater. Take up a collection (at least retail price to replace the motor) and basically BET the guy that his motor is illegal.

Tear it down and unwind it, counting the winds in front of everyone. If the motor is legit - give him the money and he can go buy another arm or motor. If he's found to be a cheat - keep your money and ask the cheater to never return. If he's legal - He SHOULD be happy to replace his used motor with a brand new shiny one.


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## PITBULL (Sep 25, 2001)

it its indoor on carpet you can usually tell a difference buy the sound the motor makes going down the straights.:dude: most evident in oval racing..


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## EddieO (Sep 19, 2003)

You can just use an LCR meter to test the motor.....you don't need to unwind it and ruin the guys motor, who may not be cheating....


Later EddieO


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## patcollins (Sep 29, 2001)

A new motor is a hell of a lot cheaper than an LCR meter though.


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## The Jet (Sep 25, 2001)

Simply throw it on someone's dyno.


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## EddieO (Sep 19, 2003)

$100 is all they cost......and if the track runs any roar races, some of the new rules outline using one.....its a good cheap investment that will prevent plenty of bad blood over tearing apart some guys legit rocket....

Which is to say.....its not about the $40....its about ruining some guys potentially legal motor....

Later EddieO


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## The Jet (Sep 25, 2001)

Someone's "legit rocket" won't put out 10 watts more than has ever been seen on a specific dyno. Trust me, it's pretty easy to get an idea on the dyno.

Later, Bret


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## collins77 (Jan 27, 2003)

Claim the motor and tear it down...most tracks should have a claim rule. If they don't suggest it...

Put down 40 bucks...if it's legal, the guy buys a new motor with your $40. If it's not, then the guy gets DQ'd and you keep your money.

It's amazing how people who "know" that you're cheating are not so sure when money is on the line...

-Mike


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## mbeach2k (Sep 14, 2004)

switch to brushless there isn't any way to cheat and then he will be in a class all by him self


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## racerrandy (Nov 23, 2002)

I don't believe going to brushless is going to eleminate cheating. If you go the stock type then you are going to have the same manufacturing tolerances that will cause some to run better than others. Besides how long before somebody hacks the codes and reprograms the speed control. Sorry don't mean to hijack the thread. 

Later,Randy


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## jonnycash (Feb 10, 2005)

Thanks everyone... Lots of good ideas, but where I race the race director could care less if someone is cheating. The funny thing is,we beat the cheater on a reg. basis. He doesnt know how to setup the car, but he's a menace because of his obsurd speed. His motor looks legit, but sounds like a mod on the straights. I was just wondering if these arms were availible or if he built this thing. I may take a collection w/ other racers and call him on his motor (unwind it front of everyone) I like that idea.


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## Z-Main Loser (Nov 17, 2004)

I've noticed that the Roar Stock and Binarys have a high winding sound like a mod if it is geared to small. If you are beating him then let him cheat and if you RD lets it go then start cheating. Tracks that don't care really take away from the competition level of stock. Some people think that strict tech rules are to much but sometimes thats what it takes to prove who is the best.


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## katf1sh (Jan 17, 2002)

cheating,race director who doesn't care and trying to find a ilegal motor to prove a point. all very bad ideas..

the race director is doing a few things that can lead to nothing but bad things.

1) by allowing a racer to cheat just because he bounces from pipe to pipe does noone any good. it can in fact turn racers away by the lack of control. cause a fight between the cheater and legal racers and with the extra speed he does extra damage to others cars. all of that is no good. 

2) someone good will figure out what he is doing and do the same thing. this will cause alot of you to just stay at home.

3)it gives a message to the youg guns that it's ok to cheat. very bad message

4)the guy cheating can't handle the extra horse power so how is he going to improve in the long run? bad bad bad

5)why have a "stock" class if it ain't stock? bad idea

most clubs will take apart a stock motor if a issue is brought to there attention. the guy takes the motor out and someone who is decent with motors should dyno the motor over 70 watts is something to be suspect.....take the arm out and look for tampering....usualy cheaters are very dumb and get caught rather quickly.....they are bad for the hobby and are a cancer to local tracks. sounds like the race director needs some guidance asap.


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## Mr-Tamiya (Jan 24, 2002)

racerrandy said:


> I don't believe going to brushless is going to eleminate cheating. If you go the stock type then you are going to have the same manufacturing tolerances that will cause some to run better than others. Besides how long before somebody hacks the codes and reprograms the speed control. Sorry don't mean to hijack the thread.
> 
> Later,Randy


nO need to hack the codes you can already do all of that with a brushless motor/ speedo set up on most of them, brushless aint new its just new to cars! Its been in the r/c airplane for a while now Aveox was one of the pioneers of brushless, and before r/c brushless had been used for years. There is no fool proof method to stop cheaters unfourtunately. someone will always find a way if the feel they have or want to cheat.


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## Mr-Tamiya (Jan 24, 2002)

Z-Main Loser said:


> Tracks that don't care really take away from the competition level of stock. Some people think that strict tech rules are to much but sometimes thats what it takes to prove who is the best.


I agree 100%:thumbsup:


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## Mr-Tamiya (Jan 24, 2002)

Z-Main Loser said:


> I've noticed that the Roar Stock and Binarys have a high winding sound like a mod if it is geared to small. If you are beating him then let him cheat and if you RD lets it go then start cheating.


 I dont agree with the mentality" then start cheating too " We have this problem at our track because of me, all season i have been in the #1 spot every race by a lap unless I break(which since the xray is non existant). And everyone is gunning for me any way the can. even as far as intentional blocking, wrecking ect ect. Race director doesnt say much. We have a person or 2 that has been going out of there way with the motors to try and make them faster, illegally unfourtunately, I.E. Polishing the stack, drilling, hand winding whats already there,ect ect. and after 5 months of racing they finally tore down there first motor last friday night. He wasnt beating me but everyone was perplexed at the sound of this thing every where on thetrack, tore it down and because the tag was intact it was deemed legal. no biggie because he aint winning but still looks bad for everyone who complained about it(now I am an a__ H___ for saying something about his motor not seeming legal. Happened before when I guy broke my track record, he was running illegal and had a cow when we inquired about the motor since there was black tape over the holes to mask the soundof the motor, he was running a 19 turn arm in a stock can!!!! he admitted it the next week!!!! and then still bragged about beating me. i guess might as well just run mod and no worries! LOL Crazy thing is down the straigt my car is as fast or slower than everyones, what people fail to realize alot, just because you turn more laps or blaze past people in the in field doesnt mean your cheating or "faster"I lot of people think if your the fastest down the straight you will win! WRONG!!! Its called consistency and experience. I can turn anywhere from a 7.89 to 8.10 consistantly(road course small track) while the faster cars are faster down the straight then me they cant pull the same lap times. they are running about 8.40 to 8.99 thats enough to get beat by a lap or 2 with no mistakes. no throw in 1 turn marshalling and you could be easily down one lap! Now people are upset with me an wonder if i am cheating. It sucks and has made it un fun anymore. I am the outcast. some of the younger guns come up and as for help every now and then, but not to much anymore. SO i went to a box stock mini cooper class with the kit silver motor and I was the slowest car out there down the straight and still won by 2 laps over second place, first thing was off the stand what r u running that cant be legal!!!!! I think I am done with R/C after this winter season for a while. I anm just venting and totally forgot where i was going with this but thanks for listening reading!


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## Robertw321 (Apr 26, 2002)

...


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## chicky03 (Oct 17, 2001)

Mr-Tamiya said:


> I think I am done with R/C after this winter season for a while. I anm just venting and totally forgot where i was going with this but thanks for listening reading!


Come and race with us if you want. No one cheats and for sure no one will accuse you of cheating. Someone might even offer you some gum. 

Paul


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## losidude44857 (Mar 19, 2002)

Ill throw in 2 slices of gum
-Buddy


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## Mr-Tamiya (Jan 24, 2002)

chicky03 said:


> Come and race with us if you want. No one cheats and for sure no one will accuse you of cheating. Someone might even offer you some gum.
> 
> Paul


 I will be able to this summer, there are only 2 races left at the track I spoke of, and ummm thanks for the gum offer but I dont want anyones juicy fruit! LOL:thumbsup:


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## XXX-SCapece (Apr 28, 2004)

The buyout rules are a good idea for the losing racers, but the guy with the motor gets screwed over. We spend hours getting our motors in top condition, and someone can have it destroyed, to check if we're cheating. 

It seems that the cheating accusations will come and go. I remember a time during the summer that everyone at my track was buying out everone else's motors and batteries. So the guy that wins alot bought out the guy that finished middle of the pack. He won next week with that same motor. Now no one even thinks about buying other guys stuff.


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## tommckay (Sep 26, 2001)

Mr. Tamiya, It sucks that you race with racers that don't watch how you run but just look at the results & are too full of themselves to believe you're that much better than them.

XXX-SCapece, Yeah it does suck for the guy who happened to come across a screamer stock or messaged one into a screamer. But.... in club racing people pretty much know whos going to be legal and who's questionable for the most part. The challenge would only happen if something was really out of the norm & the racer was being defensive when questioned about it.

I don't like the guys who cheat by doing things that are not necessarily illegal by the letter of the rules, but are extremely against the spirit of the rules. Example: a class requires you to run a sealed endbell motor (like the Mabuchi or Titan 550 motors) and you cut/pry the endbell off, true the comm on a lathe, shape the brushes, put in better shims, and reassemble. The rules say you gotta run that motor, but don't say you can't message it so technically it's not illegal. But the spirit of the rule was to make only a sealed motor legal so no one would be disassembling and tweaking them.


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