# Mead Brothers :(



## shocker36 (Jul 5, 2008)

Its a sad day today I just received my order back from Troy, and a very apologetic letter saying that he has a cease and desist order on the kits I ordered not sure if its all of his stuff or just what I ordered but it looks like his brother got the same letter because both of their websites are down. I hate when somebody does something good for the hobby and it seems like someone rated him out similar to Mike Burda from Empty Shells. Im not saying that what happened just saying I hope thats not what happened.

Good Luck Mead Brothers


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## kiwidave (Jul 20, 2009)

That's not good!!!! I had noticed the site was down a couple of days earlier. Is it the (insert swear word here) Fun Police again???


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## roadrner (Jul 21, 1999)

Guess I'd better start rethinking how I list something for sale on online auction sites or C-List pages. Afraid to use any brand names for fear of having someone send me a bill for use of a copyright or some type of infringement. :drunk: rr


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## slotcarman12078 (Oct 3, 2008)

One of the games I played on Facebook was called Street Racing. About 3 months ago, all the cars used for the game had to get revamped from real cars to fictitious brands and models. Mind you these were simply drawings of the cars, and other than deciding what car you were supposedly in, had absolutely no affect on game play. There are obviously certain numbers to hit in production or in usage (as in the game) before the fun police come knocking with their hand out. I know Harrison Woodrow got into it with GM a couple years ago, which is why he doesn't actively sell the GM bodies now. Last I read he was optimistic about renewing his license with GM to tie in with his improved T jet chassis. The biggest problem with trademark laws is the unneeded protection long after the fact. When production of an item ceases, the level of protection should decrease... relax a little. I also recall an artist who drew sweet pictures of cars (bookmark lost. Zilla knows who) who had to shut down operations for the same reason. As long as the car manufacturing economy stays as poor as it is, we can expect car makers from here and across both ponds to be looking for revenue where ever they can scoff it from. Sadly, they don't see our little hobby as a boost for their sales, like it was in the 60's with Aurora being in Ford's pocket.


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## WesJY (Mar 4, 2004)

whhhaaattt?? i loved his decals!!

Wes


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## 1976Cordoba (Sep 20, 2000)

They should worry about making better cars.

Maybe fire some lawyers and hire some better designers & engineers. I don't care which of the big-3 we are referring too . . . they all could stand some improvement.

My $.02 worth because nobody asked.


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## shocker36 (Jul 5, 2008)

Dito maybe we should let Washington know what the big 3 are spending there money on!


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## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

Funny that they have they always have the funds to kick some little guy in the nutz.


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## Dragula (Jun 27, 2003)

i read on HO World where someone tipped off Porsche (I think?) that some cottage industry litle guy was popping bodies,funny how they find the time to bust some poor guys chops over a micro production run of TOYS.I wonder if the Meads were leaned on by a drag racers family or the actual car company,either way,may the person who squealed or the company(ies) rot in hell and please go broke..again.JMHO
Christian


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## Hilltop Raceway (Feb 12, 2006)

Hey Bob...you can't use that decal...zilla. We gonna have to change to "Ooters" or "Asper", maybe "KOAL"!!! Dang, I had big plans too...RM
P.S. Can we still use the #43???


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## slotcarman12078 (Oct 3, 2008)

We're sorry!!! The number 43 is the sole property of Petty Enterprises and it's use constitutes trademark infringement. May we suggest using 34 instead? Also, the color "Petty Blue" is also included in this trademark. Pink is fairly safe though!! You might want to rethink using the STP logo also...TPS is available:lol:


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## sethndaddy (Dec 4, 2004)

There should be a law to cover little producers of small cheap basement hobby toys.
Like, I understand if your making a living off a Camaro casting, and it's what you do for a living, But if i'm resin casting it and selling under 100, I should be protected under a "Hobbyist" law.
Guess the lawyers wouldn't make any money then.


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## bobhch (Apr 22, 2007)

*This sucks my Mullet Beer Biscuits....Dang Jorks...Doh*



Hilltop Raceway said:


> Hey Bob...you can't use that decal...zilla. We gonna have to change to "Ooters" or "Asper", maybe "KOAL"!!! Dang, I had big plans too...RM
> P.S. Can we still use the #43???


hEY "RM" ( is that a Trademark?)

I don't sell anything with the Hoot name on it so, it is O.K. right? It better be as tHE "ZILLA....GOT MORE BABY...HECK YEAH!!

Bob...Mullet Beer is making a comback (feel free to use that Everyone)...zilla


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## bobhch (Apr 22, 2007)

*No Dobt Ed....soon we will all be afraid to cross the street...*



sethndaddy said:


> There should be a law to cover little producers of small cheap basement hobby toys.
> Like, I understand if your making a living off a Camaro casting, and it's what you do for a living, But if i'm resin casting it and selling under 100, I should be protected under a "Hobbyist" law.
> Guess the lawyers wouldn't make any money then.


Ed,

What you said double, double!

Bob...Hobbyist law in Full Affect...zilla


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## martybauer31 (Jan 27, 2004)

slotcarman12078 said:


> We're sorry!!! The number 43 is the sole property of Petty Enterprises and it's use constitutes trademark infringement. May we suggest using 34 instead? Also, the color "Petty Blue" is also included in this trademark. Pink is fairly safe though!! You might want to rethink using the STP logo also...TPS is available:lol:


I can see it now... A pink, #34 car with TPS reports all over the hood... maybe a red stapler to go with it. Except, that's probably infringement isn't it? Crap.....


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

martybauer31 said:


> I can see it now... A pink, #34 car with TPS reports all over the hood... maybe a red stapler to go with it. Except, that's probably infringement isn't it? Crap.....


I guess AFX almost did the same thing with their #24 stocker?


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## Dragula (Jun 27, 2003)

Yes,you will be sued by every 34 year old human and Throttle Position Sensors.On the upside..all formerly frustrated dyslexic petty fans will be very happy to wear there 34 pts shirts.


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## SplitPoster (May 16, 2006)

There are only about eleventy jillion excess lawyers, and if they are on salary or contracted with a corporation they have to find something to justify their pay besides arguing with each other, requiring ten times longer than necessary to approve every single mundane issue, and making every document and policy so verbose and convoluted that nobody besides them can translate the final product..... If they didn't work for a corporation then their primary goal in life would be to sue that corporation for anything they can think of, so you see it is in a company's best interest to hire all the lawyers they can........:freak: The ones who are too arrogant and egotistical to practice law with others or have ethics problems that might keep them out of court run for national elected office, you see . 

On one hand, I understand that the car companies sell their likenesses and logos to some companies (model kit, diecast, apparel) and want to prevent others from competing with them without paying and meeting whatever standards they established in their contracts. On the other hand, a small time caster isn't putting a dent in it - except you can't tell how big time or small time somebody is by the website. Some slot car sites are nicer than Mattel's. Nice website and purty pictures get attention from lawyers who live to issue cease-and-desist orders and otherwise make other people miserable. 

The whole situation sucks. You get home based business supplying a demand too small for anyone else to commercially pay attention to, paying tribute to out-of-production models and brands.... They should make it easy to get along, not shut these guys down!


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## shocker36 (Jul 5, 2008)

I wonder if AW has anything to do with since they might be coming out with a drag strip and dont want anyone steeling future cars thats just the cynic in me.
Also my project car is a Type 65 from Factory Five that name has to be used since Shelby or Cobra cannot they just won a lawsuit against Shelby America claiming the car resembled to closely a real Cobra. Shelby lost due to the fact the design is 40+ yrs old and they are not allowed to sue again regarding the looks of the car. I wonder if this could ever be applied to you fellow casters on older cars that are being cast and just come up with a different name besides we all know what the cars are anyway. I just hope they can get back in business.


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## Dslot (Sep 2, 2007)

shocker36 said:


> I wonder if this could ever be applied to you fellow casters on older cars that are being cast and just come up with a different name besides we all know what the cars are anyway.


We could just replace the last syllable with '-izzle'.


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## Dslot (Sep 2, 2007)

'...izzle' for the Manufacturer. '...aroonie' for the Model. Ferrizzle Testaroonie.

Aww, heck with it. Just use asterisks, like for naughty words.


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## Crimnick (May 28, 2006)

On further news...the alphabet has been copywritten...you're all going to have to find another way to communicate without actually using any letters or words.......

*snicker*


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## roadrner (Jul 21, 1999)

Crimnick said:


> On further news...the alphabet has been copywritten...you're all going to have to find another way to communicate without actually using any letters or words.......
> 
> *snicker*


 
Guess we'll just use our fingers. :devil: rr


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## Wildstar (Jan 8, 2008)

*OK, dumb question...*

Who are the Mead brothers? I've heard of a lot of slot casters, but I must be missing something here.

This stop-and-desist bit is total $^@%@# for such a ridiculously small market. Let's just all hope that our favorite decal man doesn't get shut down!


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## waltgpierce (Jul 9, 2005)

Here is a link to a few pictures (O.K. a few hundred pictures) of some of the bodies and decals from Gary Mead:

http://www.slotmonsters.com/forum/topic56_page1.html

Under this link, look for TM427 (Troy Mead) and GM454 (Gary Mead):

http://www.slotmonsters.com/forum/forum14.html


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## shocker36 (Jul 5, 2008)

My daughter was really bummed out when I told her it took forever to pick out the one she wanted. I would ask if anyone had some unfinished kits they would like to sell but now with what going on Im sure to get folded over on prices. Maybe I should come up with a ho slot car resin company called HOrizzle or HOresinizzle they both have a ring to them.


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## Dragula (Jun 27, 2003)

I bought a bunch of the badman 55 decals and now i will probably never use them,I have a 37 willy's truck kit to.


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## ParkRNDL (Mar 20, 2002)

shocker36 said:


> I wonder if this could ever be applied to you fellow casters on older cars that are being cast and just come up with a different name besides we all know what the cars are anyway.


 Makes me laugh. I'm reminded of the old Activision PC game, Interstate 76. These were some the cars used in the game:

Phaedra Motor Company:













Phaedra Palomino
Phaedra Pony
Phaedra Clydesdale
Phaedra Findley Rattler Talladega

ABX:













ABX AMZ
ABX Leprechaun

Dover-Picard Corporation:













Dover Stag Pickup
Dover Lightning
Picard Piranha
Picard Jackrabbit Banshee

Courcheval Motor Division:













Courcheval Courchelle
Courcheval Royale
Courcheval Cavera
Courcheval Manta


Miscellaneous:












Jefferson Sovereign
Vikea 420LG
Moth Truck

These pictures are small and don't do the game cars justice, but it was the best I could do on short notice from the intarwebs. It was pretty blatant, but also pretty clever, and apparently it wasn't a copyright issue. Very cool game, by the way.

--rick


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## slotcarman12078 (Oct 3, 2008)

From what I've noticed from the game I was playing, it wasn't just the names. It was also the resemblence to the real deal. I guess you resin types can start making up your own cars from bits and pieces of real models, and calling them something close.. The Phord Phalcon comes to mind!! LOL


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## gonegonzo (Jan 18, 2006)

Was the Mead Brothers busted for using the names of cars or logos ?

If it's the cars , make a small changs and call it race car #1 , #2 and so forth. Any racer not knowing what the car is shouldn't be racing it anyway. 

Collectors , this is a small price to pay to protect future supplies we get to fill the void by the conglomorate coperations managing the manufacture of our hobby items.

Do you read me Mead's ? I'm behind you 100% . 

Tom DeLauder /// aka Gonzo


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## NTxSlotCars (May 27, 2008)

I used to have that game Interstate 76!! It sure was fun. Where can you get it now?
PC classics of the 90s?


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## Bad Dawg Slots (Feb 8, 2009)

*a guess*

If I were to guess at what happened I would guess it had more to do with decals and a liciense matter . It all about $$ and if some people are not getting thier 2- 3 % ROALTITIES on a name or product they can be a real pain . I know the headaches we had at Tyco over names and decals .About half the bodies or prototypes were never seen or sold because of a license issue . I use to custom paint model trains until certain railroad companies put a stop to it . They learned they could get some $$ from your skill and the few dollars you made using thier logo. I know when we did nascars and f-1's at Tyco we changed decals over and over again till they approved them .That's why there are so many variations of some cars. So if I were a betting man I would say it has more to do with decals then bodies and if the bodies have a name on it like ford or chevy oh boy I may owe them money now for using those name ....LOL

I have about 40 zip disk of old Tyco deco ( files of the deco used on all the nascars, F-1 cars and what ever ) from all the way back to the early 80's and that's why I don't sell deco because of this same issue so they just sit there on disk wasting away in some box in my garage .


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## shocker36 (Jul 5, 2008)

I know Empty Shells circa mid 90's was ratted on and he didnt even make decals good insight Im guessing it has to be one of the two. Love ur stuff Bad Dawg. Here is the link about the lawsuit against Factory Five from Shelby. Wonder how this would apply to our little world?
http://www.factoryfive.com/whatsnew/update/lawsuit/decision.html


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## videojimmy (Jan 12, 2006)

typical of American business, sadly. penny wise, pound foolish


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## ParkRNDL (Mar 20, 2002)

NTxSlotCars said:


> I used to have that game Interstate 76!! It sure was fun. Where can you get it now?
> PC classics of the 90s?


I actually just found a site where you can download it for a few bucks, including the expansion pack... the site is called GoG Games or something (I have the link at home)... it should come up on a google search...

but from reading their message boards, it's a BEAR to run on Vista or 7 or even XP. It was buggy when it was released for 95/98...

--rick


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## shocker36 (Jul 5, 2008)

Good news Troy sent me an email saying he will be able to get some original design decals back up and some bodies will be available, but its going to take some time he said.


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## Reaper (Jan 17, 2005)

I'd just like to know who the putz was that turned them in ?! Seriously. Who was it.


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## slotnewbie69 (Dec 3, 2008)

yeah that's too bad,they do really nice stuff.guess now we re all gonna get sued for our pics on photobucket,and facebook.oh and you tube....:drunk:


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## coach61 (Sep 6, 2004)

Lets see it had better be Ford as they are the only one not supported by my tax dollars. GM and Dodge we all know, Toyota, Honda and Nissan all got billions of tax dollars to build factories here.. so as far as I as a tax payer feel you may use MY designs all you want till you surpass the hobby market..like 250,000 units.. till such time I need to let all our lawyers go as I did not see anything on my desk that asked if we should bother the mead boys at all.. therefore they do not have to worry...


Coach for Prez 2014 Goverment with some some bloody logic..


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## Dragula (Jun 27, 2003)

I worked for Chevrolet for nearly 20 years,and now i wouldnt buy a new Chevy to save my ass.Famouscarz had the wife of Ed Roth on him about using a keychain toy in one of his rat fink style cars i made for him<made the body,not the fink> and he silenced her without a single legal salvo.


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

shocker36 said:


> I know Empty Shells circa mid 90's was ratted on and he didnt even make decals good insight Im guessing it has to be one of the two. Love ur stuff Bad Dawg. Here is the link about the lawsuit against Factory Five from Shelby. Wonder how this would apply to our little world?
> http://www.factoryfive.com/whatsnew/update/lawsuit/decision.html


lol that's interesting but don't think it would apply, Factory Five won on technicality. Very funny.

What would be more interesting is if someone had the $$$ to carry a fight. Trademark issues are heavily based on idea of possible confusion in the marketplace. I don't think anyone would mistake a $20, 3" long car for the real thing. :freak:

Copyright and trade dress are bigger problems. Works of art, including models, are protected under copyright laws, so the minute a manufacturer says "that's it" to a clay design or plastic mock-up, that's it. Same goes for paint schemes, liveries, etc. Given the very protective nature of copyright laws, _that's_ the real problem.

One possible loophole is that under "fair use", anyone can pretty much make an artistic copy of something for their own use, and you can give it away as long as you're not being compensated for "it". Perhaps it'd be possible to make a body that you're giving away for free, but charge a fee for materials/packaging.


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## mahorsc (Mar 26, 2008)

coach61 said:


> Lets see it had better be Ford as they are the only one not supported by my tax dollars. GM and Dodge we all know, Toyota, Honda and Nissan all got billions of tax dollars to build factories here.. so as far as I as a tax payer feel you may use MY designs all you want till you surpass the hobby market..like 250,000 units.. till such time I need to let all our lawyers go as I did not see anything on my desk that asked if we should bother the mead boys at all.. therefore they do not have to worry...
> 
> 
> Coach for Prez 2014 Goverment with some some bloody logic..


they all including ford got money ford just did a few years earlier


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## Reaper (Jan 17, 2005)

I built this tribute car to the putz that squealed on the Meads. From now on they can run it at any drag event as the car typifies this individual's personality. The car also comes with a backbone for the driver.


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## 440s-4ever (Feb 23, 2010)

If anyone wants to do something join SEMA and/or visit their site regularly to sign SEMA petitions. They do a lot of legal maneuvering fighting automaker copyrights.


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

I guess it depends on what side of the money making machine you are on. If I owned a patent, trademark, copyright, sausage making machine, or anything that represented a tangible asset that I could turn into money, I would absolutely defend it against anyone who tried to take money out of my pocket or not pay me for what I'm rightfully owed. All the people who invested in these assets, fat cat Wall Street bankers to little old ladies with blue hair and fragile hip bones would expect nothing less. All part of the big picture free market economy and capitalism. Everyone has the same opportunity, motivation, and reward system to play with, and the same set of rules to protect their time and money investments and property, whether tangible or intellectual. 

That being said, does it come across as Big Evil Company exerting its heavy handed will over a couple of little guys just trying to make some pocket change doing something they love? Absolutely. 

Does it seem like a stupid waste of time for Big Company to swat down a little fly. Yeah. The problem is, if you own something of value like this you are obligated to step on any and all trespassers. Having a patent or trademark or copyright on something is only as good as your ability to defend it. You can't get a public defender to help you and if you are defenseless you will be brutalized... unless you sell your rights to someone who has the means to defend themselves, which is far too common these days. There are roaming gangs of lawyers who do nothing but purchase patents dirt cheap from patent owners who cannot afford to defend them, pennies on the dollar, and then they litigate their way to insane profits. 

Is the system broken? In a lot of ways, yes. It needs fixing and unfortunately these guys are bugs on the windshield of a somewhat out of control system. But the system is still a means for anyone, people with inventions, innovations, talent, and huge amounts of motivation to get rewarded for their efforts. If you take that motivation away, I think we'd be a lot worse off.


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

AFXToo you make some very valid points, and I'm a firm believer in the fact that trademark/copyright laws when applied within the scope of their intended purposes are very beneficial. The problem is, and again it boils down to lawyers and shady business practices, there's no way in my opinion that the laws are being applied correctly in these cases. In a very practical sense, a guy name Ted who owns a "Ted's Hot Dog" stand is not protected from another guy named Ted opening a "Ted's Sausage Joint" across town simply because they are both similarly shaped food. Unless of course the sausage dude tried to pass them off as hot dogs. Replicas of cars are not "automobiles" simply because we call them little "cars" and they are not sold as such, so I fail to see trademark law being applicable. Decals and such are another story as logos are involved, though one could possibly argue fair use since the model is an artistic reproduction.

I'd like to see even one example demonstrating damages to an automobile manufacturer prior to the onslaught of licensing, which ironically did not immediately come into play when the Lanham Act became law. I took some scheming lawyers and businessmen to figure out a way to twist the laws to their advantage.

Trademarks were put into place to prevent confusion in the marketplace, I've been looking out my window all morning and have yet to see a 3" toy car drive by my house. As for copyright, I don't see any dealer showrooms offering clay prototypes for sale, mass produced factory-assembled cars are not a form of art.


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## SwamperGene (Dec 1, 2003)

One side note to the licensing mess this hobby experiences....

There have been many similar issues in the model railroad market, yet many of them get resolved to the "infringer's" advantage. Search Union Pacific licensing for a real eye-opener (_free_ perpetual licensing).

Why????

Surely there are many reasons, but a big one is because the model railroad industry has the support of both a very solid real-world business network as well as many very cohesive (and thus large) hobbyist groups to go to bat when these issues arrise. We have manufacturers who must've watched too much Highlander ("There can be only one"), basement distributors, and bickering hobbyist groups to speak for us.

Something to think about :freak:


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## slotnewbie69 (Dec 3, 2008)

isn't there something about if you change the design by 10% then the copyright rules are moot?


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

The first thing you have to do with many legal situations is to throw logic out the window. If it made sense you wouldn't need lawyers. Since we don't know whether this is this a copyright or trademark infringement situation, or what companies are involved, it's hard to really know what's up. If it is a trademark issue then the owners of that trademark feel that they must be constantly diligent against what they see as infringement. Their hired guns, i.e., teams of lawyers, go out and scour the web looking for low hanging fruit to pump up their billable hours and sending out C&D letters is evidence of their worthiness. As to the "confusion" factor, I think it comes down to the copyright/trademark holders being confused about why they are not getting a piece of the action, so they hire lawyers to alleviate the "confusion."

One course of action is to obtain licensing rights. Another is to have a product so compelling that the trademark holders will pay you to put their brand in front of your customers, e.g. movies, TV, real race cars, etc.


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## kiwidave (Jul 20, 2009)

Anymore news on the Meads??


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## shocker36 (Jul 5, 2008)

Their website still says closed for remodeling. I still have a feeling AW had something to do with it. TM had on his site a Force "tribute" car.


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