# 440X2 Weight Slugs



## 1976Cordoba (Sep 20, 2000)

Any kind of interest in a weight set to replace the traction magnets in a Tyco / Mattel 440X2?

I ask because I had my nephew machine some for me to gauge if there was any interest besides my own to turn some X2 into sliders.

Here is a pic -- traction mags are on top left for reference.










What is the price point of something nice quality like this? This is not brass or lead, it is some other non-magnetic very dense metal that he told me the name of and of course it escapes me now.

I know the time he spent on this, and what he gets paid, so I'd like to know if this is even economically feasible to be able to pay him a fair price for doing this for me.

I put a set in a Tyco F1 and on my big road course at 14v it was a nice slider. At 18v it was still easy and manageable in all but tightest turn, and at 22v the car was real handful.

He is also doing a bar magnet weight for the original Tyco 440 for me.

Any input from you guys would be appreciated.


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## martybauer31 (Jan 27, 2004)

Hey doba, maybe I am missing somethign here bud, but does JW already make these?

http://users.cescowildblue.com/jwsteed/newpage2/mprod.htm

Marty


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## resinmonger (Mar 5, 2008)

Is there a weight difference between the JW set and your set, Doba? I didn't see a weight listed on the link Marty gave but the JW set is brass. You set could be heavier depending on the material used. It looks like JWhas set a price unless there is a significant material cost difference. IMHO, step one is to weigh your set and step two is to find out the material.

:drunk::hat::freak::dude:


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## 1976Cordoba (Sep 20, 2000)

Yeah - I know those were out there. Thanks for the link, I have e-mailed to order a pair of sets for comparison. :thumbsup:


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## Dyno Dom (May 26, 2007)

I would be very interested in your findings. I've wanted to tinker w/ Tyco chassis for a while. Since the introduction of the G-jet & ThunderStorm cars, I
have become a fan of the low voltage inline Jet cars. A snap together chassis that can be topped w/a hardbody or Lexan. For the Tyco I was thinking a Nascar hardbody, weighted independent front & brass rear weights in place of traction mags. Voltage would be determined thru trial.


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## twolff (May 11, 2007)

The $2.98 Mattel chassis' ~4 ohm arm should be a natural too (based on what the $50 rolling chassis cars are using). A truly affordable entry level car.


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

....that could do a Brawn GP and show up those $50 chassis?


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## coach61 (Sep 6, 2004)

Montoya1 said:


> ....that could do a Brawn GP and show up those $50 chassis?


I Hope Rubino Kicks some serious buttocks this season.. and Lil Jense can play supporting driver lol.. Not to fussy on the colors yet but once they get some Sponsers on her she'll be sweet. or just park it besides Alonso's Color Fashion disaster and a primer Grey will look hot lol.. Go BRAWN!


Dave:woohoo:


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## demether (Aug 26, 2008)

Dyno Dom said:


> I would be very interested in your findings. I've wanted to tinker w/ Tyco chassis for a while. Since the introduction of the G-jet & ThunderStorm cars, I
> have become a fan of the low voltage inline Jet cars. A snap together chassis that can be topped w/a hardbody or Lexan. For the Tyco I was thinking a Nascar hardbody, weighted independent front & brass rear weights in place of traction mags. Voltage would be determined thru trial.



you can have a look here :

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=247218

I've got some good results with this chassis, even with stock tyco power supply (18volt) :thumbsup:

the interest of this particular chassis is the pan, allowing really low and balanced lead weigth, and you can run it with short or long wheel base (I 've got some personal LMP projets for that  )












I've ordered some slide guides, and I'm making my choice for the silicones tires at the moment...so I 'll post my next steps soon.

I'll run it with lexan body, by the way, to lower the gravitiy center at maximum.


regards, 

dimitri


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## Dyno Dom (May 26, 2007)

Thanks Dimitri, your suggested HT thread was interesting. I must have missed that one! I am thinking more along the lines of a Tyco wide pan chassis, weighty car w/ potential power. I will be attempting to make it a drivers' car but would like to hit upon a decent medium. Experimenting with
traction mags or replacement brass weights @ different voltages. I will definitely use an independent front end, probably weighted. Motor magnets
will be stock(matched), 6 ohm arm & 25T crown for control vs. top end.
Not quite sure of tire sizes. In the pre L/L & Tomy days, we typically ran
.345 fronts & .440 rears. Tyco wide pans tend to like to run higher, so a
chassis parallel to rails will take priority. For rears- double flange rims & a good set of slip ons. Unfortunately, this will be on hold because my new 6 lane sectional has finally arrived. I have to prep table from previous Tomy 
layout, set-up & wire new track. Eventually, if this car comes out right, I
want to build 3 or 4 for each lane as an IROC style "house" class. Bodies will be Nascar w/predominant body color to match lane. Oh well, I can only try!


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## demether (Aug 26, 2008)

The only problem you can have with the tyco widepan, is the tires choice (like I said on the topic) and electric contact in corners (because of the sliding action). But near from stock (just 2 bars of lead weight on the pan) you have a really playable car, even with stock power supply (18volt) and controller (parma eco 45ohm, tyco/aurora controller). 

I built it for the same reason : to create a cheap non magnet racing class , with correct and balanced cars performances, for home racing. I plan to adapt lexan body on it, to conserv the benefit of the low gravity center.

I'll post my future tests (I'm waiting for slide guides, and new silicones tires. I think I try other frontend too, but I have to wait the slide guides to see how thick these are).

regards, 


dimitri


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## 1976Cordoba (Sep 20, 2000)

Well I got the JW weights in and they are heavier than the ones my nephew has fabbed for me. I think the material is similar in weight density, however, the JW slugs are marginally bigger.

The slugs my nephew has made were made from measurements taken directly off stock 440X2 magnets, and as we know, they have a bit of play in the pocket. The JW slugs fully fill the magnet pocket - very trick. They press in firmly / need a little coaxing to get them in fully and seated. Once installed, they are flush with the bottom of the chassis. For $4.95 a set I have to recommend them.

A racing buddy and me turned laps at Lucky Bob's today on his Scorpion track with a pair of 440X2 F1 cars and we were in the mid 7's to 8.0s for the most part. At 18v the track was way too hot, however, and Bob was good enough to back it off to 12v for us. At that point the cars were more driveable in the twisty bits in the infield. The 45 minutes flew by. I mounted up some .290 BSRTs with Wizzard PVT-02s stretched around them - this got the bottom of the cars level to the track and gave us a little more top end than the .270s we had out back when we got there.

I ordered a couple more pair to try in a pan 440X2 application, along with the Tomy Turbo weight slug. Also, my nephew still has a 440 bar magnet of mine he is going to make a slug from.

I'll post a few pics later maybe. :wave:


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## Dyno Dom (May 26, 2007)

'Doba, Did you run a weighted indep. front end? I believe JW has different
front weight sets available.


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## 1976Cordoba (Sep 20, 2000)

Dyno Dom said:


> 'Doba, Did you run a weighted indep. front end? I believe JW has different
> front weight sets available.


No I did not - did not get them.

I have e-mailed him to fix the pic links on his site so we can see the front ends, etc.


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## afxgns (Jul 6, 2006)

This sounds to me like you guys just invented the G-Jet!

We have ben racing the Gs and the Storms together since last sumer. The Tyco jet is being considered, but with the RTR cars available, there's really no need.


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## demether (Aug 26, 2008)

> At 18v the track was way too hot, however, and Bob was good enough to back it off to 12v for us.


It confirms what I felt with 440x2 narrow chassis. Replacing tires for silicon ones and magnets for same shape lead weights, I was not able to drive it correctly with 18volt.

with my new 440x2 set up, I can beat lap times (fastest than tjets or magna/xtractions) with standard controller and 18volt. (on the video, I don't run "on limits" because filming and driving in the same time is ...hard ^^ )

tyco 440x2 wide pan, running w/o magnets



The only issue is the pin guide and short contact blades on it : when I slide the car, I loss electric power (even bending the blades). So I'm waiting for the special slide guides I ordered.

Try my 440x2 widepan set up explained on the forum : you 'll see the result and feeling will be diferent than with the narrow chassis.


Last thing : on a non magnet setup, the tires choice and tires shape is especially important. you have to use true tires, with rounded/sanded edges.

From one tire shape/compound to another, the result may vary a lot (once again, see the topics I created on my experiments). I'm wainting for tyco supertires (0.442 I guess) delivery too. 

In front of a g-jet, I don't think my tyco stills competitive...but it's not the same price (tyco widepan chassis + silicon tires + slide guide +lexan body...less than 1/3 of the gjet price). Good enough for home racing/budget entry level club racing I guess.


hope it helps


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## 1976Cordoba (Sep 20, 2000)

afxgns said:


> This sounds to me like you guys just invented the G-Jet!
> 
> We have ben racing the Gs and the Storms together since last sumer. The Tyco jet is being considered, but with the RTR cars available, there's really no need.


 
I bought a few G-Jets and they are nice, however, the $50+ price tag is a real turn-off. While I don't have kids & the associated bills / debt that go with them, many of the guys in our local clubs do, and it would be a lot easier for them to cough up $5 for a set of weights rather than into'ing a whole new car at an exotic price.

But yeah, the G-Jet is OK too.


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

afxgns said:


> This sounds to me like you guys just invented the G-Jet!
> 
> We have ben racing the Gs and the Storms together since last sumer. The Tyco jet is being considered, but with the RTR cars available, there's really no need.


What about cost? Or do you allow people to buy the $20-$25 kits and convert?


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## afxgns (Jul 6, 2006)

Well I guess it depends on how you look at it.

For our deal it works out well to run the RTRs. visual inspections, tire size tech and run 'em.
For a builders class we would need to spend an hour in tech and then only have an hour left for racing.


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## demether (Aug 26, 2008)

I think g-jet is a great club racing oriented product. With 50 bucks, you've got a ready to race competition car, to create fair and balanced race classes.

For home racing slot racers, who share cars to our friends (not in the slot racing hobby, or on diferent scales) it 's not the same thing. For a four lane race track, we've got to spend 200dollars to create a race class. So (I speak for myself) we prefer try to modify cheap chassis to make decent (or great!) race cars, to preserve our budget


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## twolff (May 11, 2007)

demether said:


> I think g-jet is a great club racing oriented product. With 50 bucks, you've got a ready to race competition car, to create fair and balanced race classes.
> 
> Even that only works until the car needs to be rebuilt or repaired. The racer that can't build a car still can't re-build one. I saw the same thing when I raced 1/12th scale RC some 10-15 years ago. A outfit in Holland named Corally came out with a 1/12th scale roller already setup for carpet racing. The guys that always seemed unprepared, breaking down, and fast-n-outta control jumped on 'em and did significantly better than they had with kit-built cars....for a few weeks. When the Corally car had to be torn down and rebuilt (something that we did every week with a kit-built Delta, Associated, Clandra car), it was back to square one for those poor souls.
> 
> ...


.....


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## Dyno Dom (May 26, 2007)

AFXgns, I agree w/ you for G-Jets & T-Storms in the racing format you describe. I like each car very much. My tinkering is similar to ideas of Dimitri, 'Doba & Montoya for many reasons that they have presented. The intro of a new RTR chassis class was not well rec'd. w/our members. My intention is to build 3 or 4 cars for each of the 6 lanes of my layout. This would be a "house" type IROC class.


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## demether (Aug 26, 2008)

by the way, I think it's good for the hobby that someones pay for RTR cars and new products, to keep alive the R and D and market in our scale, but it's a good thing that people share ideas, make experiments and scratch buildings to try to improve things, and make the products more to their taste. It desmonstrates that our hobby is alive, and strong, in my opinion.


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## Wildstar (Jan 8, 2008)

1976Cordoba said:


> I bought a few G-Jets and they are nice, however, the $50+ price tag is a real turn-off. While I don't have kids & the associated bills / debt that go with them, many of the guys in our local clubs do, and it would be a lot easier for them to cough up $5 for a set of weights rather than into'ing a whole new car at an exotic price.
> 
> But yeah, the G-Jet is OK too.


OK, OK, I admit it...I've never driven a G-Jet. Guilty as charged! I'm way too cheap to drop $100 for a pair of cars just to see if I'll like them. I have been playing around quite a bit with magnetless 440X2's, though. I really like the way they handle -- they don't slide all over the place like MT's, but they do still offer a bit of forgiveness when you get out of shape. Do G-Jets have similar handling? Or are they more like the Aurora G-Plus, where they're more likely to snap and spin than to slide? How does driving a G-Jet compare with driving a weighted X2?


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## demether (Aug 26, 2008)

Wildstar said:


> Do G-Jets have similar handling? Or are they more like the Aurora G-Plus, where they're more likely to snap and spin than to slide? How does driving a G-Jet compare with driving a weighted X2?



+1


interesting question !


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## TomH (Jan 17, 2006)

Wildstar said:


> OK, OK, I admit it...I've never driven a G-Jet. Guilty as charged! I'm way too cheap to drop $100 for a pair of cars just to see if I'll like them. I have been playing around quite a bit with magnetless 440X2's, though. I really like the way they handle -- they don't slide all over the place like MT's, but they do still offer a bit of forgiveness when you get out of shape. Do G-Jets have similar handling? Or are they more like the Aurora G-Plus, where they're more likely to snap and spin than to slide? How does driving a G-Jet compare with driving a weighted X2?



Are you running at 18V+, or are you able to use a lower voltage?


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## demether (Aug 26, 2008)

Personaly, I run my wide pan "tyco jets" (on the video) with standard tyco wall packs (one for each lane), so I guess it's 18volt. THe handling is very good, since you've got the right tires on it (silicone tires with square edges cause de-sloting in corners).

Reading the first posts of this topic, it seems that the narrow "tyco jet" have to be raced on a lower voltage...


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## martybauer31 (Jan 27, 2004)

Wildstar said:


> OK, OK, I admit it...I've never driven a G-Jet. Guilty as charged! I'm way too cheap to drop $100 for a pair of cars just to see if I'll like them. I have been playing around quite a bit with magnetless 440X2's, though. I really like the way they handle -- they don't slide all over the place like MT's, but they do still offer a bit of forgiveness when you get out of shape. Do G-Jets have similar handling? Or are they more like the Aurora G-Plus, where they're more likely to snap and spin than to slide? How does driving a G-Jet compare with driving a weighted X2?


I'd love to hear from someone who's driven both as well....

We run the G-Jet here locally and it's the car that got me back into slot car racing, it's my favorite car by a long run!

That being said, I certainly understand why some folks out there are trying to find a cheaper alternative since clearly not everyone is interested in racing a national class car and spending the money.

I also absolutely LOVE the fact that this discussion hasn't turned into the ridiculous political rant that is has on a couple fo the other sites out there. We definitely seem to have a more level headed group over here.


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

The G-jet is awesome. There are not enough of us in our group keen on them to add a magnetless class, or we would explore the kinds of stuff demeth is getting up to 

As I posted above, there is a middle ground between buying a T2J, G-Jet or Thunderstorm and playing around with ''Tyco-Jets'', and that is to buy kits for converting the magnet versions of those three chassis over to magnetless.

It is slightly more involved with the GJ, because an arm change is best to do a full job. The prescription for a 'proper' G-Jet is to use a 9-ohm arm.

Voltage is key too. The UK tracks are pretty big, so when the magnetless cars are giving a quick airing, 15V is not a problem and the really good guys can cope with 18V. Bottom line is all the variables can be messed about with to get what you want.


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## afxgns (Jul 6, 2006)

Dyno Dom said:


> AFXgns, I agree w/ you for G-Jets & T-Storms in the racing format you describe. I like each car very much. My tinkering is similar to ideas of Dimitri, 'Doba & Montoya for many reasons that they have presented. The intro of a new RTR chassis class was not well rec'd. w/our members. My intention is to build 3 or 4 cars for each of the 6 lanes of my layout. This would be a "house" type IROC class.


I would say that if you want to run a tyco x2 based class, the way to go would be as follows:

12 volts.

rear tires no smaller than .450 (sponge slicone)

Brass fronts w/ tires no smaller than .350

I would allow aftermarket shoes because this is the weak point in the system
and try runnin' the smallest crown you can get your hands on.(20?) This will detune the torque, and tend to make the cars more coasty.

no sanding on the bottom.

with this settup, and a narrow chassis, I would try indy bodies. 

What do you all think?


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## Dyno Dom (May 26, 2007)

AFXgns, Good stuff! Do tire sizes change from narrow to wide pan chassis?
The .350 front & .450 rear sizes are G-Jet rules. I rec'd. a suggestion that wide pans like to run taller tire sizes. I plan to use Nascar bodies & update
electricals. Interesting thought of running 20T Crown. My table is 6.25 wide
by 19ft. long. My original thinking was to go away from top end & run 25T for
control/torque. Undecided on rear tires as I have always used sili/coated
sponge, but was leaning to double flange rims & slip on silies.


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## demether (Aug 26, 2008)

On the wide pan tyco, I tried different types of silicon tires. I obtained very good results with thin tires diameters. I can't say to you the measures (or perhaps in millimeters). 

Here's a pic of the tires mounted (AJ's g-plus tires I guess...not sure that I found it in my spare box) on a standard tyco wide pan rear assembly and crown.























With that tires, I nearly no need any weight on the frontend (standard rims and tires, by the way), under 18volt, standard tyco controller (I tried my parma eco 45ohm : it's quite ok too). But as you see, the tires are a little too thin, in comparison of the crown, so it could cause problems on plastic track. So I've ordered (waiting for delivery) some supertires 0.442 (not as big as stock tires, but not too low).




> I would allow aftermarket shoes because this is the weak point in the system


Yes you're right. For that issue, I 'll try the slide guides. I 've ordered some (waiting for delevery too).




> and try runnin' the smallest crown you can get your hands on.(20?) This will detune the torque, and tend to make the cars more coasty.


I' m not sure (perhaps I 've got a problem of english understanding), but is it not the opposite ? big crown = less brutal car; like on a racing bike ? big crown + thin diameter tires = smooth car, opposite to little crown +big wheels = a brutal acceleration one ? 


By the way, if you don't achieve to make a good narrow "tyco jet", I invite you to try the widepan setup. The narrow magnetless setup (replacing the magnets by weight) never worked good on my track, under 18volt. The wide pan works, almost stock.

As soon as I will have my parts (tires, slide guides) I'll post the final results, and new videos (this time a friend will film so I can focus on driving, to try to make a better demo than the first I made).



EDIT : AFXGN : you didn't speak about your weight setup : do you add some, or do you run it without additionnal weight ?


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## afxgns (Jul 6, 2006)

for wieghts I would go with the JWs or the ones that were shown earlier in the thread.

The small crown (or larger pinion) will give greater top end at the sacrifice of low end torque. The torque is what you want to reduce.

As far as the wide pan settup, I think they would work fine, I know there are alot more of them around. The hard bodies with slip-ons sounds like a hard car to drive to me though.


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## demether (Aug 26, 2008)

> The small crown (or larger pinion) will give greater top end at the sacrifice of low end torque. The torque is what you want to reduce.


It's funny I was thinking the opposite  thank you for that explanation. But as I said, the standard gear ratio works fine mon mine tyco wide pan.




> The hard bodies with slip-ons sounds like a hard car to drive to me though.



Personaly, I'll drive it with lexan bodies , to keep the bare chassis good handling (on the pic you can see the chassis I'm tuning...making room on the sides for pan-style lowest weight) : 











I'll post the final result of my car, laptime comparaisons with a selection of others magnet and non magnet cars, videos and tutorial, as soon as I 'll receive the last parts I need to complete the car. I will have to build 4-5 cars for my racing class : so I will be able to see if the mods will work each time.


I think I'll work on the front end too, but for now I have to wait the slideguides, to know the minimal diameter of front wheels I can use. AND I have to see if the slide guide improve the electrical issues we can see with standard shoes.


bye


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## afxgns (Jul 6, 2006)

The slide guides are a great item for braided tracks, but they will have issues with rail tracks.
I would also highly recomend using a brass front end settup of some type. This will allow you to get the needed shoe tension. Hell try super gluing a lead weight to the front if you're going cheap.


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

Something like the RiggenPro devices?


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## demether (Aug 26, 2008)

I bought some slide guides here :

http://horacepro.com/guides.html

I bought some "modified" ones, adapted to h0 rail tracks. We'll see if it works good, or if I 'll have to make modifications (copper shoes?)

Someone has to experiment, I guess


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## afxgns (Jul 6, 2006)

demether said:


> I bought some slide guides here :
> 
> http://horacepro.com/guides.html
> 
> ...


I know Ed Biachi personally. If he's says they work, then by God........:thumbsup:

I'm glad he's still is in the hobby. He's a great guy.


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## demether (Aug 26, 2008)

Yes, very kind person. Like a lot of american people involved in the hobby, as I discovered ! 

I'll keep you informed as soon as I 'll receive the guides, and make improvements on my "tyco jet or whaterjet magnetless thing" ^^


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