# Mien Tiger at 1/16th scale



## fluke (Feb 27, 2001)

Howdy gents! I'm back at the bench and now I'm working 
on my Heng Long Tiger Tank modification. 

Here is the link I hope you like it!.....There are two Tiger Panzer pages so far.

http://troyenlow.weebly.com/panzer-tiger-in-116th-scale-radio-control-heng-long.html


Herr Fluke :tongue:


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

Nice update. It's been a while since you posted about your Tiger. 

Since you are going into a lot of detail... I have a couple of comments. 

The engine deck screening goes outside of the grillwork, not inside. Aber makes a set of photo etch grills for the Tamiya kit, which would work here.

The tube on the left rear corner of the hull is for the spare antenna, and should be, IIRC on the right side not the left.

The machine gunner's blister is not removable. I think the "clamps" are are referring to are for the waterproof deep wading/amphibious cover for the machine gun. This detail was dropped during production.

The two binocular vision holes on the driver's armor were deleted during the early production version of the Tiger's production span. 

On a model this big you can hollow out the otherwise solid lumps next to the fuel filler caps, as they are catches for the hooks on the rear engine deck vents.


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## walsing (Aug 22, 2010)

Checked out the rest of your web site and you do nice work!


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## fluke (Feb 27, 2001)

*Thanks guys! 
*
*Thank you very much Walsing!*  :wave: Nice to meet you....I use to post a lot more on here but life has been very crazy for me in the past few years.

The tiger has sat for a while...and I am starting pretty much over from scratch.
Tho I am upgrading on some details tho I am not 100% concerned with others as it is after all it is an RC thing. I am thoroughly enjoying this project
and learning about this magnificent machine, its crewman and Tiger History in general.

I do plan on how ever thinning out ( where it can be seen ) all the mud flaps, especially the exhaust
covers and giving them a bent up look here and there.

I have seen a few images of Tigers in action that still had the drivers binoculars holes still in place so I am going with it as I like to be different :tongue::freak:

The Commanders hatch will be turned the proper direction and I am going to the single headlight BUT!!.....I am also going to model the tail lenses and light them up a greenish / bluish tint. 

I was going to move the Turret but I think the Heng Long turret is only like 2/16th of an inch back ...wow...if so that hardly seems like enough difference to be worth it.....I COULD BE WRONG about that??


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

The single headlight is not a feature of the Tiger I early. 

You will find photos of tanks with the binocular sight holes but they are specific to exact production dates, and correspond with other detail features. These details were not random. A good book on the Tiger is Jentz' Germany's Tiger Tanks DW to Tiger I: Design, Production and Modification which outlines when details were added or deleted during production. The book also has a number of 1/35 drawings of different production tanks so you can get the proper mix of details. This site is also indispensible http://tiger1.info/

I would not go to the trouble of moving the turret a fractional distance while, at the same time, building inaccuracies into the model (like adding a single headlight)

The rear tail light doesn't have a lens really. It is a glass tube mounted horizontally across the rear left mud flap hinge. The tube would look black when turned off. Supposely when lit it had a blue or violet tint but not green. There was an adjustable cover over the tube so the light shines down, so you really don't see too much. It is a night driving distance light. These guys offer one for the Tiger model http://www.welshdragonmodels.co.uk/...y-light-blue-for-tiger-1-116-scale-1540-p.asp


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## fluke (Feb 27, 2001)

COOL! Thanks. After I posted that last night I did read about the head lamp.

On the Rear light....was there ever two of them or just one?....plus easy enough for me to build my own.


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

No there are not two convoy lamps. Only one on the left rear mud flap frame. It is hard to find info on the later type rear convoy light (the tube) as it seems no originals survived in working order, with the original bulbs intact, etc. 

The headlights on the Tiger I were interesting. For combat they are removable from the front upper hull corners, and a plug was inserted into the electrical socket/base. However, the design of the Tiger was not that great and one obvious problem was the sweep of the cannon barrel could easily knock the lamps off. One unit going to Tunisia made field modifications that moved the lamps down to the front sides of the driver's armor plate, so they were not sticking up any more. Later on, this was officially solved by moving the lamp to a center position. Plus using one lamp saved materials.


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## fluke (Feb 27, 2001)

Maybe it was a Heng Long design flaw ( to name but many LOL ) but my Tiger has two rear lamps....I will just smooth out the right one. 

This Monday or Tue I will have a few new images of the 
Drivers port window the the radio opp's ball mount. I have decided to not use 
the cover clamps on the Mg mount.

How is the Haynes Manual on the Tiger?....and Thanks for your help!


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

I don't know about the Haynes manual. The above mentioned Jentz book is pretty much the last word on the Tiger. It will tell you the exact dates when things like the threaded fasteners by the MG blister were removed from production, etc. All of the details on the tank are production date specific. Things were not just randomly added or removed. So a tank built on XYZ date would have certain features while a tank built a month later would have different features. The Hen Long "toy" is a so so copy of the Tamiya 1/16 kit. It's simplified, though, with a lot of errors introduced. It's a cheap alternative but takes more work. It does make a nice fun project though. 

Here is some more info on the headlights 

http://www.network54.com/Forum/47207/message/1361493154/Toothy+Tiger+info+plz


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## fluke (Feb 27, 2001)

Thanx...I may have missed something but the link just goes into a discussion 
on tank painting history and such ...tho it was interesting.

I believe that is one of Wittmann's Tiger's with the Teeth on the Muzzle brake?

Wittmann was amazing on how he used the Tigers weaknesses to its best advantages.

This is my fav photo of him and his crew.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7052/6824230464_b5b000311e_b.jpg


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

No the tank with the snake on the muzzle brake (not a Tiger face) is not Wittmann's. There are two photos of that tank, but not much else is known about it as I think the photos are just of the turret front. 

Unless that link doesnt go to a specific page it shoudl have gone to the hull/headlight info with photos of the head light mounts, drawings, wire arrangement, date of the change to the single light, etc.


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## fluke (Feb 27, 2001)

Nope ...it does not.


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

LOL oh well... it's there if you get into the tank stuff. There is also a kit section.


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## SfanGoch (May 28, 2011)

djnick66 said:


> No there are not two convoy lamps. Only one on the left rear mud flap frame. It is hard to find info on the later type rear convoy light (the tube) as it seems no originals survived in working order, with the original bulbs intact, etc.
> 
> The headlights on the Tiger I were interesting. For combat they are removable from the front upper hull corners, and a plug was inserted into the electrical socket/base. However, the design of the Tiger was not that great and one obvious problem was the sweep of the cannon barrel could easily knock the lamps off. One unit going to Tunisia made field modifications that moved the lamps down to the front sides of the driver's armor plate, so they were not sticking up any more. Later on, this was officially solved by moving the lamp to a center position. Plus using one lamp saved materials.


Hey Dave,

You must've forgotten about the discussion about the convoy lamp that took place at M-L, right around this very time, last year: 

*Blue tail light late war fitting - more thoughts*

You were part of it.  

The sleeve was satin black; and, when illuminated, it was










Picture by Eric George, BTW.


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

Actually I searched and couldn't find it. Thanks for the link.

Looks like that one didn't survive very well.


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## fluke (Feb 27, 2001)

COOL! I thought the final word was a greenish tint more than blue....
BUT! how it looked when actually lite and by what type of bulb still
remains to be seen....I say the green wins as is.


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## SfanGoch (May 28, 2011)

fluke said:


> COOL! I thought the final word was a greenish tint more than blue....
> BUT! how it looked when actually lite and by what type of bulb still
> remains to be seen....I say the green wins as is.


The color in the photo is what one sees when the tube is illuminated. Eric placed a flashlight at one end of it and turned it on.


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## fluke (Feb 27, 2001)

Well.....then that means this will be just fine 

Cost: $00.00

Real Glass tube taken from a camera flash tube cut with 
a super fine diamond Dremel cutoff wheel and two micro 
green led's.

Now to find if the Tiger convoy lamp had short wire leads that were visible
and looped a bit or were they wired from the tube cap and straight into
the back? 

Hope you like!


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## SfanGoch (May 28, 2011)

fluke said:


> Well.....then that means this will be just fine
> 
> Cost: $00.00
> 
> ...


The wire ran from the cap on the left side, then into the rear hull plate via the hole.

Nice improvisation with the tube. You'd be better off using an SMD (surface mounted diode), though. You can get them as small as 3x2x1mm and they cost only 9-24 cents a piece. They are great alternatives to running miles of fiber optic strands inside models for interior lighting, too. They would easily slide into the tube you made and the light would be more to scale.


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## fluke (Feb 27, 2001)

Goot idea :thumbsup: but does anyone know where the lamps were 
placed in the tubes and where there more than one?

Placing the SMD's inside the tube gives an obvious bright spot 
....thats ok with me as long as that was the actual bulb placement.


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## SfanGoch (May 28, 2011)

If you look at Eric George's photos of the frame, it looks like there was a single bulb that provided illumination. It's also possible that there were two smaller bulbs which were inserted in a clip (something similar to the bulb mounts in a standard Notek convoy light, only everything was oriented horizontally) which fit into the tube. Since there aren't any surviving intact examples, this is only conjecture on my part. Just measure the length and diameter of the tube you fabricated and attach the SMD's to a small board, with the SMD's offset 1-2mm from each end. That should be enough to minimize any bright spots since the light from both SMD's should converge, being that both of them are relatively close together.


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

Remember too there was probably a metal cover over the tube (like a soda can with a couple holes punched along the side with a slit so it would clip over the bulb. This would prevent having a big glowing tube on the back of the tank and would focus the light much like the earlier box shaped convoy light.


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## SfanGoch (May 28, 2011)

Well, according to what can be seen in photos, it was just the tube with no cover. It's not like there was a real need to hide the glow. The bulb(s) would be no more than ten watts; and, the only person who would see the light would be the guy in the tank behind. With such a low output, the light wouldn't really be seen farther than 50 meters, the maximum distance between vehicles moving together in a night road march. The ideal distance is 25 meters. Besides, the noise would be a dead giveaway long before anyone else would see the convoy light itself.


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## fluke (Feb 27, 2001)

Good point. From what I have read so far that would be the case. Not much more than just a 'Follow me light' at close range.

OK...this is just to humor a guy that is a lighting freak :freak:

*If *the driver's flash shields were all the way open....and *IF* his area was lit up ...in a non realistic fashion....would there be any way that the driver could be seen from the outside at all? IF it was lit up and if the driver was looking very closely to the glazing?


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## iamweasel (Aug 14, 2000)

This is really quite an interesting discussion and VERY informative. I have the Tamiya 1/16th Tiger (for longer then I care to think about) so this is really helpful.
BTW does anyone know where to get new decals for the Tiger in this scale?


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

You probably woudn't see the driver inside for a variety of reasons. The armored shutter over his view port doesn't open that much even when fully opened. And even with the tiny interior lamps inside a tank, you would not have enough back light to show much through the very thick armored glass block. I suppose if you had a flood light inside you might see something but then a big glowing "window" on the front of the tank would not be that good of an idea anyway. The driver in the Tiger also sits in a bit of an awkward position due to the sponson and relatively narrow center hull width.


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## fluke (Feb 27, 2001)

That is what I was thinking too. Guess I better get real LOL :tongue:

Weasel! Wuz up? :wave:

You can find decals on the net...mostly what Tamiya offers
but most RC tankers at 1/16 and higher paint their own markings
as in the field most Tigers where custom painted by the crew...some
as crude as using, old clothing, branches and brush as large paint brushes ...no kidding.

Each new Tank came with an air gun...but most crewman sold it or traded
for smokes, food booze and what not LOL....thats what I was told by an
elderly ex SS nazi Youth member who was this close to being
assigned to a Tank unit but the the war ended. He lives in my area and I 
run into him at the store now and then....at 1st I thought he was a KOOK
but after time his German was way too crisp and his Knowledge was amazing!
....even down to a story about how his original officer / Instructor
was arrested and removed for remarks about how Hitler was an Idiot....I guess a student or more did not feel that was very funny although the whole class laughed at the time....that was a very a common happening in those times.


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## iamweasel (Aug 14, 2000)

Been busy as hell around here, havent had much time to finish or even touch all the stuff on my bench 

I tried all the usual places I know for the decals, no one had them so I hit evilbay- mans gotta do what a mans gotta do.

Couple of the books Ive read confirms what your ex Hitler youth says. Seems if it wasnt bolted down or next to an officer they'd sell it if possible. Im guessing Hitlers supporters are like many people-they didnt much like the truth. 
Post lots of pics, the Tiger is my favorite tank and Id love to steal lots of ideas from you  not that I'll get to redo mine before Im 70 but its on the list as least.


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## fluke (Feb 27, 2001)

LOL I hear ya.

That German fellow his name is Clause. and he even has shown me his field
cap and youth knife...all very old and very original  He can not wait to see my tank in action.
I just hope he does not leave this rock before I can finish.

I need to spend less time with my Girl and more time at the bench...but ..well...I can't help it! :tongue:

I'm hoping to get a Sherman even if its just the tank with no gear
as I will do whith that what I am doing with mien Tiger. Except as some
have already done....I'm going to make it Odd Ball's tank ( of course ) 

I think from what I have seen there may even be a produced resin figure
at 1/16th scale or close of Odd Ball....the ones I have seen look way too
good for just a RC tanker to make....tho I could be wrong.


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## iamweasel (Aug 14, 2000)

After 17 years with my better half she's all in on me spending time elsewhere in the house :thumbsup: though now its just usually working ON the house, either way she's happy!

Its nice when you get to speak with people (regardless of who they are, in most cases) who actually lived through those big events in history. I didnt even realize until right before my neighbor passed away last month, he fought in the Ardennes during the Battle of the Bulge. Would love to have had to chance to talk about it with him 

If you do Oddballs tank, please post picks. I loved that character, I thought he was the best character in the movie.


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## fluke (Feb 27, 2001)

I will! Take care Dude


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