# Moebius Broadway Dracula Eye Mis Molded?



## Stoney-VA (Oct 19, 2011)

Here is an enlarged photo of the eyes on my Dracula. Note that the right eyelid is partially closed while the left eye is pretty much wide open. I can't see this large of a difference between the eyes on other builds that I have seen. Can anyone tell me if both eyes are molded the same of their head. I wrote an email to Moebius about this, but I guess I should have asked here first. It was a major pain to paint his right eye with it scrunched up like that. I'm really not happy with how the eyes look.


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

I wouldn't sweat it. Human anatomy is never 100% symmetrical. Just looking at one of the first pics of Lugosi I found on google shows the two eyes do not look the same. Lugosi's left eye is a big wiser in the picture than his right eye.


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## Paulbo (Sep 16, 2004)

It looks to me llike they were trying to replicate the stare in DJNick's pic rather than it being a mis-mold.


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## NTRPRZ (Feb 23, 1999)

Paulbo said:


> It looks to me llike they were trying to replicate the stare in DJNick's pic rather than it being a mis-mold.


I agree. The left eyebrow is cocked upward a little bit in the classic Lugosi hypnotic stare, thus making the eye look somewhat larger than the right eye. A great job by Moebius in capturing Lugosi's 'look.'


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## Stoney-VA (Oct 19, 2011)

Thanks guys.

I thought that it was done on purpose too until I saw some other people's builds where the eyes appear to look pretty much the same. I'm hoping that some other people who have the kit will chime in with their experience.


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

Well a metal mold will give you exactly the same casting in every case unless there is some obvious damage to the mold. You wouldnt get a slight squint every now and then.

I'd say more likely you did a good job painting the eyes as they were molded.

It isnt a flaw.

Note: if you look at Frankiefreak's WIP post it looks like his eyes are the same as yours, even with just a base coat.


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## Stoney-VA (Oct 19, 2011)

Sometimes the mold will not give the same casting due to impurities in the plastic causing sticking of the plastic as it is ejected from the mold, trapped air or contamination of the mold itself. Most all of the parts come out properly but occasionally defects do occur. I have seen mismolded parts in kits on more than one occasion. 

Either the difference in the eyes is intentional or an error in molding. The only way to tell is to either examine the mold or compare parts that came from different production runs.




djnick66 said:


> It isnt a flaw.
> 
> Note: if you look at Frankiefreak's WIP post it looks like his eyes are the same as yours, even with just a base coat.


This photo, from Michael's (Frankiefreak) build thread seems to confirm that the squint is intentional as the lid is obvious on the right eye and seems to be lacking on the left. It would be nice to see a closer view of the eyes or see another example closeup of the head to be certain.


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

The eyes on mine are different sizes, there is no defect in the kit!


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## Stoney-VA (Oct 19, 2011)

Thanks for the verification that the head is molded correctly.
Now I have to go fix my eyes.


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

Stoney-VA said:


> Thanks for the verification that the head is molded correctly.
> Now I have to go fix my eyes.


It looks fine to me! :thumbsup:


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## Stoney-VA (Oct 19, 2011)

Thanks, It does look worse in the zoom. might try just touch it up a bit.
I do need to work on his mouth a bit more and some more shading.
It's not too bad at 1:1 scale which looks about like this, at least on my laptop sized screen



The whole head


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

Stoney-VA said:


> Sometimes the mold will not give the same casting due to impurities in the plastic causing sticking of the plastic as it is ejected from the mold, trapped air or contamination of the mold itself. Most all of the parts come out properly but occasionally defects do occur. I have seen mismolded parts in kits on more than one occasion.
> 
> Either the difference in the eyes is intentional or an error in molding. The only way to tell is to either examine the mold or compare parts that came from different production runs.


Not really... You might get a short shot (mold not filled) but IMHO its impossible to get a "normal" eye on one kit and a squinting eye on another, complete with different lid detail etc. There is nothing wrong with the kit part. Your nicely painted head matches not only the pics of Lugosi but other pics on this same forum of the same kit.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

djnick66 said:


> I wouldn't sweat it. Human anatomy is never 100% symmetrical. Just looking at one of the first pics of Lugosi I found on google shows the two eyes do not look the same. Lugosi's left eye is a big wiser in the picture than his right eye.


 Every once in a while, one of my eyes is a big wiser too.


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## kdaracal (Jan 24, 2009)

Has anyone used these Archer decals from Cultvman?

http://www.culttvmanshop.com/Human-Eyeball-decals-54mm-132-135-scale-from-Archer_p_236.html

$6 bucks for a lotta eyes. I wonder if they're any good?


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## Stoney-VA (Oct 19, 2011)

Those decals are for 1/34 and 1/35 scale figures, much smaller. Drac is 1/8 scale.


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## Stoney-VA (Oct 19, 2011)

I received this from Moebius yesterday:


_I will go ahead and send you out another head, keep in mind it will be exactly the same as they are all molded from the same tool. The eyes are not supposed to be exactly mirror images of each other, he does have a scowl/evil look that makes it look like 1 eye is slightly squinting. Depending on how it is painted you can see more or less of this effect. The head will ship out this week._

However if you compare these two photos of different models you can see that the eyes are definitely different. Note that the other builder did not modify the head, and that they do a much nicer job on eye than i do. :drunk:










Is it possible that there are sets of molds that differ in the eye sculpt? I doubt it. In spite of what others have said manufacturing defects do occur in injection molding. It's more likely that the head without the squint is a manufacturing defect. There are probably very few heads without the Lugosi squint.


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

For Pete's sake, Moebius is not only telling you that there is only one mold, the eyes are different and they are all the same, they are also sending you a new one when there is NO defect to the one had originally. Why do you insist on trying to make a problem where there is NONE?!


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## Stoney-VA (Oct 19, 2011)

I'm not trying to make a problem, just discussing the difference in some of these builds. I'm merely curious as to why they are different. If the MODs feel this is inappropriate, I would have no problem if they deleted the entire thread. 

I edited my post above as I could see that , taken out of context, it could appear that I was complaining. Moebius has been nothing but great to deal with and I have no complaints about the company, it's products or customer service.,


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## zike (Jan 3, 2009)

Stoney-VA said:


> However if you compare these two photos of different models you can see that the eyes are definitely different.


Ah...the eyes are definitely the same.

The only thing different is the paint job.

Oddly enough, your paint job is just fine. You did a good job. When you get the replacement head, it will be identical so if you do the same paint job over again, you'll be good to go. Other than wasting your time and Moebius's money, you're on your way to a good model.


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## Disco58 (Apr 10, 2011)

Stoney-VA said:


> Those decals are for 1/34 and 1/35 scale figures, much smaller. Drac is 1/8 scale.


That link was for just one of many eye decals sheets they offer. They have eye decals in a number of scales, including 1/8. They're just on different pages on the site instead of all next to one another. http://www.culttvmanshop.com/-Human-Eyeball-Decals-170mm-to-18-scale-from-Archer_p_234.html


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## derric1968 (Jun 13, 2003)

kdaracal said:


> Has anyone used these Archer decals from Cultvman?
> 
> http://www.culttvmanshop.com/Human-Eyeball-decals-54mm-132-135-scale-from-Archer_p_236.html
> 
> $6 bucks for a lotta eyes. I wonder if they're any good?


Well, as Stoney-VA said, that particular set of decals are too small for a 1/8 scale kit. However, they offer their decals in larger sizes.

This set is for 170mm to 1/8 scale eyes:

http://www.culttvmanshop.com/-Human-Eyeball-Decals-170mm-to-18-scale-from-Archer_p_234.html

And this set is for 1/6 to 1/4 scale eyes:

http://www.culttvmanshop.com/-Human-Eyeball-Decals-16-to-14-scale-from-Archer_p_235.html

I've used them and they work pretty well. Even at 1/8 scale, the decals are very small, so trimming them and applying them will take some patience, but I think it's worth the effort, especially once you've applied a gloss coat over them.

My only complaint is that they are a little simple. Not much detail. However, Archer now offers photorealistic versions that I'm eager to try.

http://www.archertransfers.com/AR99003A.html
http://www.archertransfers.com/AR99003B.html

Also, Zotz has some nice eye decals I'd like to try.

http://www.zotzdecals.com/reviews/zotzFX2/zotzFX2.htm
http://www.zotzdecals.com/reviews/zotzFX1/zotzFX1.htm


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## Spockr (Sep 14, 2009)

Currently working on this kit and painted the eyes today. The wicked glance is pretty nice but I would have appreciated crisper details for shape and depth. For my money's worth (all 2.5 cents worth) the eyes could have been just a bit better defined. Painting the pupils would be easier if the molding was just a little deeper.

http://i876.photobucket.com/albums/ab324/Spockr/Bela on Broadway/P1040062.jpg

Regards,
MattL


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## kdaracal (Jan 24, 2009)

Stoney-VA said:


> Those decals are for 1/34 and 1/35 scale figures, much smaller. Drac is 1/8 scale.


Sorry. My bad. But I'm glad they have the correct size. I know a guy from my Fantasy Model Club of San Francisco, and he used them with pretty good success. 

I *SO* want to do figure kits. But I truly suck at it. 

In any case, your original paint job is pretty dang good in my book! And I agree with you that Moebius is such a fantastic company to deal with. They are clearly passionate about the hobby. 

It's a good time to be a builder! :wave: :wave:


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## kdaracal (Jan 24, 2009)

Spockr said:


> Currently working on this kit and painted the eyes today. The wicked glance is pretty nice but I would have appreciated crisper details for shape and depth. For my money's worth (all 2.5 cents worth) the eyes could have been just a bit better defined. Painting the pupils would be easier if the molding was just a little deeper.
> 
> http://i876.photobucket.com/albums/ab324/Spockr/Bela on Broadway/P1040062.jpg
> 
> ...


Nicely done, though!! I think it is just the nature of styrene for the details to be a bit soft. But it is light years ahead of the 60's-80's!!

Resin is a different story, (good resins), they can be mind blowing. :wave:


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## kdaracal (Jan 24, 2009)

derric1968 said:


> Well, as Stoney-VA said, that particular set of decals are too small for a 1/8 scale kit. However, they offer their decals in larger sizes.
> 
> This set is for 170mm to 1/8 scale eyes:
> 
> ...


Thanks for the correction and extra resources! This is why I am a member of HT. You guys rock!

*Bookmarking now....*:wave:


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## Disco58 (Apr 10, 2011)

Careful with the Zotz site they have female figures that might offend someone....:beatdeadhorse:


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## scotpens (Sep 6, 2003)

djnick66 said:


> I wouldn't sweat it. Human anatomy is never 100% symmetrical. Just looking at one of the first pics of Lugosi I found on google shows the two eyes do not look the same. Lugosi's left eye is a big wiser in the picture than his right eye.


Is it just me, or does Lugosi’s left eye look slightly higher as well?

Shannen Doherty wouldn’t be related to him by any chance, would she?


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

Is anyone else here and artist as well as a model builder? The first thing they taught us in anatomy class was, the human face is not symmetrical. One side has a decidedly mean look and the other a more passive look. If you were to take any persons face and mirror it down the middle you would get two completely different faces, one completely angry, the other very happy. Moebius captured this perfectly in Bela's face!


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## Stoney-VA (Oct 19, 2011)

I agree. As I said in my second post,



Stoney-VA said:


> Thanks guys.
> 
> I thought that it was done on purpose too until I saw some other people's builds where the eyes appear to look pretty much the same. I'm hoping that some other people who have the kit will chime in with their experience.


Unfortunately no one who has a model with similar eyes has posted.

I think that its been established that the heads are all the same. I believe that some people are ignoring the squint and are filling the right eye with enough paint to cover the right lid. Then painting both eyes in the same manner, which makes the heads appear to be different. :beatdeadhorse:


BTW: Thanks for posting the info on the decals. I ordered a set of the Zotz decals from Sprue Brothers:


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

Stoney-VA said:


> Those decals are for 1/34 and 1/35 scale figures, much smaller. Drac is 1/8 scale.


Archer and/or other companies makes those up to like 1/4 scale. I have a sheet that has larger scale eyes. since its just the pupil you still have to paint the shape of the eye, and then you have to either cut the tiny decal to fit the shape of the lids, or carefully paint around the decal.


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

The eyes in every one of these Dracula kits are the same. Period. 

What you do see are different interpretations of how to paint the eyes. Some people probably "color outside the lines" and make the eyes look larger or slightly different shaped. Depending on how you outline the eyeball, paint the lower lids and shade around the eyes, you will get a different look. Then there is how the face is photographed. Perhaps the angle of the camera makes one Dracula head look a bit different than another by a different modeler. Light, type of camera, distance, etc. all can make a difference.

To get two different sculpts you would need two different masters and two different molds... which Moebius has already said is not the case.


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

Those decals seem to take the sport out of it, I personally will stick with a tooth pick and a steady hand!


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## RSN (Jul 29, 2008)

Don't know why the double post, sorry!


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## Stoney-VA (Oct 19, 2011)

djnick66 said:


> The eyes in every one of these Dracula kits are the same. Period.
> 
> What you do see are different interpretations of how to paint the eyes. Some people probably "color outside the lines" and make the eyes look larger or slightly different shaped. Depending on how you outline the eyeball, paint the lower lids and shade around the eyes, you will get a different look. Then there is how the face is photographed. Perhaps the angle of the camera makes one Dracula head look a bit different than another by a different modeler. Light, type of camera, distance, etc. all can make a difference.
> 
> To get two different sculpts you would need two different masters and two different molds... which Moebius has already said is not the case.


Yes, We are on the same page.. see my earlier post.


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## zike (Jan 3, 2009)

RSN said:


> Those decals seem to take the sport out of it, I personally will stick with a tooth pick and a steady hand!


I agree with you.

Modern model kits are very easy to assemble. In my opinion, it's the painting skill and style that we develop over the years that makes who we are in the hobby. Painting the eyes on a figure kit is an important measure of how far we have come.

If I buy a decal sheet full of eyes...the same eyes that a thousand other guys can use...then my individual style is gone. That style is a demonstration of skill that I've taken decades to develop.

Of course, some guys just want a Dracula (or whatever) figure and aren't interested in the model as a test of skill. That's Ok for them but I like doing the hard paint work.


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## Stoney-VA (Oct 19, 2011)

I tend to agree. I do not believe that trimming and installing an eye decal at 1/8 scale or smaller, and making it look good is any easier than using a toohpick or needle with a steady hand to dab at the eyes. 

There is going to be some skill involved in installing these. I thought that I would give them a try, especially on the smaller models where the best you can hope to do is put some paint in the eye. To put one if these in a 1/12 scale figure and make it look good that will take some skill. Of course anyone should be able to paint eyes at 1/4 scale or larger with no problems. I thinnk I'll try it on Sinbad, who otherwise would end up with one dab of paint in each eye.


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

i like Archer stuff and recommend their products in general. I bought some of the eye decals a few years back and had mixed feelings about them. They are IMHO too mechanical and perfect. Even coming in different sizes for assorted scales of figures, I found them to be always either too big or too small. They just look funny. You cant just stick them on a figure anyway since you still have to paint the whites of the eyes and do the outlining and shading around the eye. And when you do apply the decals they either need to be trimmed to fit the eye lids or painted out to fit. With something about 1mm or less thats not easy. And you have to get the eye decals aligned properly with the highlights in the same direction, etc.

My thoughts are that for these big 1/12 to 1/8 or 1/6 figures its not that hard to just paint the eye. You don't have to get super fancy to get a good result. If the figure is so small you cant paint something... then don't sweat it. A dark wash over the eye or dark slit will work on 1/48 figures. 

A very simple eye is this Aurora Glow Mummy... just a black outline and black iris/pupil










The Hunchback eye has a lot of expression and you couldn't do this as well/easy with a decal










I don't think Sinbad's somewhat squinting eyes would be easy with decals either










I did this Historex 60mm Napoleon ages ago










Aurora's Red Knight had outlines for the iris. I painted the eye white, applied a brown wash, and this is the result. Afterwards I painted the iris brown and the pupil black.










These 1/4 or 1/5 eyes were easy. Most people dont even notice them...










Dont be afraid to use color in the eyes


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## Spockr (Sep 14, 2009)

Those are some very good examples Djnick. The mummy's iris definitely has some of the best definition of any of the Aurora 13. Its almost too perfect but was definitely the easiest to paint.

I've never tried the decals but agree that they might take some of the challenge out of the task although trimming and positioning them correctly would seem to bring its own difficulties.


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## Stoney-VA (Oct 19, 2011)

Nice job on all of those eyes.

I still want to try the decals on Sinbad and see how well I can make it come out. I do not think that using these decals is in any way going to be easier than painting the eyes. However, The end result may look better on the small scale stuff. For me, it is difficult to achieve realistic looking eyes on figures less than 1/8 scale with paint.


We really need to get one of the admins to strip this out as a separate thread.


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## frankiefreak (Mar 15, 2011)

Here's my Broadway Drac head completed. The eyes ARE different sizes due to the "look into my eyes" stare Lugosi could do so well. I still practice it! I'm close to being finished with this great kit so I'll post the pics soon. 

Micahel:wave:


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## Stoney-VA (Oct 19, 2011)

Your head came out great Michael.
:thumbsup:


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## frankiefreak (Mar 15, 2011)

Stoney-VA said:


> Your head came out great Michael.
> :thumbsup:


Thanks! can't wait to get him done.

Michael:wave:


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