# Any Vallejo Acrylic users out here? Questions....



## Jodet (May 25, 2008)

My LHS recently started stocking a ridiculous number of Vallejo colors so I've been giving it a try. 

I don't find much different betwen the 'model color' and 'model air' (allegedly already thinned for airbrushing, but I find it pretty thick). 

I've been pushing it at 25 psi, seems to work better than the 15 I use with most other acrylics. 

What's the deal with their thinner? I've been using Mission models thinner (because I have it) but as a rule of thumb I usually try to use the manufacturers thinner. What's this 'airbrush flow improver'? 

Auxiliary products - Colores acrílicos / acrylic colors

Seems to be a paint retarder? So... use WITH the thinner or AS the thinner? 

Model Masters acrylics are famous for drying fast... any used the Vallejo 'flow improver' with it? 

Thanks for any suggestions/tips/dirty jokes/etc. I use Mission Models mostly (best freaking paint ever) but it sure would be handy to run down to the store to buy paint. And Vallejo has LOTS of colors which is really nice. 

Thanks in advance for any comments.


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

Personally, I hate Model Master Acryl paint and use them only in a few rare occasions when they make a good color or a color no one else makes. But, as a rule, ALL acrylics dry fast.

Model Color is a lot thicker than Model Air, especially when you mix it properly. It takes more than just one or two quick shakes. Model Air is thinner but may still require some thinner to spray properly. Valejo also makes some Model Air Polyurethane Primers that are quite thick (thicker than Model Color) that definitely need to be thinned.

Not all acrylics are the same as far as the solvent used in them. For example, Tamiya, Gunze Aqueous Hobby Color and AK Interactive Real Colors paints are alcohol based and can be thinned wtih alcohol, water (not recommended but it works for general detail painting), and lacquer thinner. The proprietary thinners for those paints are solvent based and include alcohol, wetting agents, etc. Tamiya also sells a retarder to slow the drying time, which is really handy especially for brush painting.

The Vallejo paints are NOT alcohol based and have more of a water base. I thin them for brush painting with just tap water. For airbrushing the Model Air paint, I use a bit of Airbrush Thinner which has a bit of a bite to it compared to the Model Color thinner, and also some Flow Improver. Flow Improver is different from Retarder Medium. Flow Improver makes the paint flow smoother and not build up on the airbrush needle. There may be some redundancy between products, because Flow IMprover will not work with brush painting (they tell you not to do it because it will dissolve previous paint layers) and Retarder is very thick and gel like and works best for brush painting. 

For airbrushing, I have pretty good luck with the Vallejo stuff. The Poly Primers in particular need to be sprayed at a decent pressure (15-18 psi under load) and I prefer to use a larger size needle and tip. They tend to not do well with a fine tip and low pressure.

There is definitely a learning curve to using the paints. And, you have to let each coat/layer dry 24 or 36 hours. THe paint is very fragile when you first apply it but is rock hard when fully cured. It also shrinks down tightly as it dries.

I have had less experience with the Model Air regular colors but they spray okay. I find that aside from the Polyurethane Primers which are a primer themselves, the Model Air and Model Color paints all need to be applied over a good primer. Otherwise they peel or rub off easily, or just bead up on the bare surface.

Tamiya FIne White or Fine Gray spray primer works great.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Man, that's all way too complicated for a funtime hobby! :lol:


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## ausf (Sep 25, 2017)

I switched over from Tamiya about 10 years ago and never looked back.

I love all their stuff, from poly primers to the varnishes.

I've settled in over the years to just using Model Color (unless I want a range that's only in MA) and thinning it with their AB thinner about 50%. No flow or retarder, I use three different Iwatas, never had an issue with tip dry.

I bought a crapload of different size eyedropper bottles off eBay for cheap, I add the paint, thinner shake and done. Best is the iModelkit app has all the RLM, RAM, Fed Standard, etc colors cross referenced with Vallejo, so I can mix any color I want, thin an shoot.

This fuse was all Vallejo, from primer to top coat over the decals, including the woodgrain done by hand brushing, the rest ABed.


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## ausf (Sep 25, 2017)

I forgot to mention, for hand brushing I just use tap water on a wet palette, sometimes adding a flow improver or glaze depending on the subject. But I get great results with them via Windsor and Newton Series 7 brushes.


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## Jodet (May 25, 2008)

ausf said:


> I switched over from Tamiya about 10 years ago and never looked back.
> 
> I love all their stuff, from poly primers to the varnishes.
> 
> ...


Absolutely amazing picture there... !


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

I love Tamiya for airbrushing, but even using their retarder, it is not the best hand painting paint. For that, I use Vallejo. I have three large shoe boxes full of the stuff. It's not my most favorite airbrush paint, but it can give you very good effects.

The use of the different retarders, flow enhancers etc. may seem complicated but it makes the paint a lot more versitile. You can make the paint behave exactly how you need it to, not how it decides to on its own.


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## CapnTightpants (Aug 8, 2017)

I use Vallejo with a wet palette and the Retarder Medium for hand brushing. The wet pallette was one of the best purchases I ever made. I airbrush with the Vallejo Model Air.


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## irishtrek (Sep 17, 2005)

Wet pallette??


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## CapnTightpants (Aug 8, 2017)

irishtrek said:


> Wet pallette??


Yessir! Search "wet palette" on Amazon or Evil Bay. It's a shallow plastic box that seals tightly. Inside is a sponge that you keep moistened, not soaking wet, covered by a special paper that must be treated before you can use it by soaking it in hot (preferably boiling hot) water. Then you lay a sheet of that paper on the sponge, dispense your acrylic paint (NOT enamels or lacquers), and go to work. The moisture in the sponge keeps the acrylic paint workable far longer. You can even lock the lid on and the paint will keep overnight.


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## Owen E Oulton (Jan 6, 2012)

A wet palette is easy and cheap to make at home. You'll need a shallow resealable plastic container (Zip-Loc, Tupperware, Rubbermaid or similar) some quilted paper towels or napkins, a sheet of baking parchment and some water. Optionally, if the container lid isn't air-tight, you can cover the container with saran-style plastic cling wrap before putting the lid on to make it ari-tight.

Take the container (about the size of a sheet of note paper and .5 to 1 inch deep), layer three sheets (folded double) of paper towel in the container, slowly pour in tap water until the towels are saturated, but there is no standing water and finally cut a sheet of the baking parchment to fit the container and press over the wet towel. Water will wick through so that the parchment becomes damp. Place dime- to quarter-sized dots of water-based acrylics on the parchment - they'll stay moist so long as you don't let the towels and parchment dry out. You can make custom blends of colours and they'll stay useable for some time. You can, if desired, thin the paint with brush-loads of water. You can use with a retarder or a flow agent as desired.

There you go - no need to buy an expensive brand-name "official wet palette", just get a cheap sandwich container at the local dollar store, a roll of paper towels, saran wrap and baking parchment at either the dollar store or the supermarket and _Bob's your uncle!_


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## StarCruiser (Sep 28, 1999)

This is a technique that has been used by artists who use acrylic paints on canvas.

It's a proven method to get the most of your paints...


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## f1steph (Jan 9, 2003)

I love Vallejo paint. I like the fact that you don't make a mess when you put the paint inside the airbrush. Tamiya paint really stinks when sprayed with an airbrush. Vallejo hasn't a smell that makes you want to run outside for some fresh air like Tamiya . I normally use Tamiya paints with a brush, rarely with my airbrush, it smells way to much.... 

Ever since I clogged pretty baddly my airbrush (I use to clean it with acetone) , now I always use their airbrush thinner and airbrush cleaner products and they do a good job. Acetone probably wasn't the problem, I was. 

As for the Vallejo thinner, I always put a drop or two in my airbrush and I mix it with the paint I want to spray, works everytime.


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## djmadden99 (Dec 23, 2008)

Sweet Albatros, ausf!


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## Rusty_S85 (Apr 7, 2018)

I have used Vallejo Air acrylic paints so far. Havent painted anything officially but I did practice on a old '55 Cameo that I am missing a bed side on. Seemed to spray good just take some getting used to the double action feature.

With that said I sprayed at 35 PSI since the paperwork I found online for the Eclipse airbrush states 35 PSI is recommended. Sprayed fine for me. Some have told me its too high and I am wasting paint. I dunno but I kind of feel if the manufacture of the airbrush recommends 35 PSI to make the most of the airbrush design I kind of think I should run what they recommend.

I was told to run what the paint says and my zero paints Ford Engine Red states to spray at 15 - 40 psi.


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

15 to 40 is a huge range. My Iwata compressor only goes up to 20 and half the time I spray at 15-18 psi under load. I can't imagine spraying a model at 40 psi


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## Rusty_S85 (Apr 7, 2018)

djnick66 said:


> 15 to 40 is a huge range. My Iwata compressor only goes up to 20 and half the time I spray at 15-18 psi under load. I can't imagine spraying a model at 40 psi


Ive used my Eclipse at 35 psi. With the trigger not pulled its 42 PSI but with trigger pulled flowing the pressure is a stable 35 PSI. Sprays good to me. I might try lowering the pressure but Iwata recommended 35 PSI as it allows the Eclipse to be utilized fully for what its designed for.

Compressor I'm using is a Eastwood airbrush compressor ment for automotive use. Its regulated to shut off at 50 PSI and it is super quiet and even at 35 PSI I can use 1/4 of a cup of paint before the compressor kicks back on again.


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## SteveR (Aug 7, 2005)

Owen E Oulton said:


> A wet palette is easy and cheap to make at home ...


You, sir, have just validated the existence of the internet! Thank you!


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## Jodet (May 25, 2008)

I've been spraying some test shots of different Vallejo colors. Really liking them a LOT. The pale grey blue might be really nice for the 1701-D. It's sort of 'duck egg blue' only lighter and a bit more grey.


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## Jodet (May 25, 2008)

Here's a progress report, or perhaps I should say a 'regress' report. I spent many, many hours today trying to get my freaking airbrush to work. I just COULD NOT GET THE PAINT TO FLOW. Tried three different airbrushes. Cleaned them all, and I mean I CLEANED THEM. 

Still. Could. Not. Get. The. Paint. To Flow. 

So I mixed up a cup of paint from two five year old jars of Model Master Acryl and IT SPRAYED BEAUTIFULLY. 

I do not know why I'm having so much trouble getting that Vallejo to work today. Even if thinned perfectly it _would not flow_. But the Acryl worked perfectly so it's not my airbrush(s). 

Never had this problem with another line of paint before - this lack of consistent results. Guess I'm back to acryl. Too bad, Vallejo has some great colors.


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## Milton Fox Racing (May 27, 2014)

Sounds frustrating. Are you going to try again since it worked over the weekend? :lurk5:


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## Jodet (May 25, 2008)

Milton Fox Racing said:


> Sounds frustrating. Are you going to try again since it worked over the weekend? :lurk5:


Maybe. Maybe not. All day today whatever Vallejo paint I used either was too thick to flow or so thin it spattered. Before I use a paint on a real project I like to try several bottles on a test piece so I know I can get consistent results. 

Well... not getting them. I love Mission Models but no LHS carries them. The same place that sells the Vallejo has a nice selection of the Acryl so maybe I'll start using that again. It looks really good on the work and sprays well. Nice color selection too. I know some people don't like it because it dries fast but I just put in some Liquitex retarder and it works fine for me.


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## djnick66 (May 2, 2008)

To spray Vallejos I use a larger needle and nozzle and you need to use their Airbrush Thinner (especially for Model Color which is the brush painting paint). Model Air also may need a little thinner. MAY need. And, you want to use FLOW IMPROVER. 

THey are ok paints. I use the jar paints all the time. I don't airbrush them much because color accuracy for the military shades is non existant. They just sort of make sutff up when it comes to names.


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## Jodet (May 25, 2008)

Been doing some more airbrushing with this paint to mixed results. It's ok for brush painting but I'm giving up on trying to airbrush this stuff. It's just too inconsistent for me. 

A shame because my LHS has a huge selection of this. But it doesn't begin to work as well as Model Master Acryl or Mission Models Paint.


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