# Wizzard's Dynamic Comm Brushes ???



## Ralphthe3rd

Whats the Poop, on Wizzard's New Dynamic Comm Brushes ? I see them advertised on Bud's HO, and he lists them as > "YOU ARE PURCHASING 3pr OF COMMUTATOR MOTOR BRUSHES THAT IS MADE BY WIZZARD HIGH PERFORMANCE. THESE BRUSHES ARE WIZZARD'S *NEW AND IMPROVED DYNAMIC MOTOR BRUSHES */ CARBON COMPOSITE AND THESE BRUSHES WILL FIT YOUR ORIGINAL AURORA T-JET 500 CHASSIS. THESE BRUSHES ARE BRAND NEW. "
Are these something different than the Wizzard E81 Comm Brushes ???


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## slotking

yeah

I heard he was coming out with new brushes.

I will get some to test vs the slottech brushes and see which ones provide the higher dyno readings


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## ajd350

The new ones are E85 and are also taller than the E81.


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## slotking

do know if the material is the same?
do they look the same?


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## ajd350

Side by side the material looks a little different, but I can't tell you what the difference is by the visual. I only have them in one car right now, so it is inconclusive. I need to do some A/B/A testing.


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## slotking

being taller, should give more speed (in general)


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## ajd350

Speed, not necessarily. depends on the material. More preload, yes.


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## slotking

in general
I have made most t-jet cars faster by increasing brush tension.
I think that is also what they are looking to achieve with bigger brushes.

key word is in general.
I have had the odd car where i had to reduce tension


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## slotcarman12078

I would imagine they would last a little longer unless they're a softer compound.


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## ajd350

slotking said:


> in general
> I have made most t-jet cars faster by increasing brush tension.
> I think that is also what they are looking to achieve with bigger brushes.
> 
> key word is in general.
> I have had the odd car where i had to reduce tension


I agree in general. The reason I qualified it is that we don't know what the material is, and so it may be an apples/oranges comparison. There are two possible variables here and we need to consider them as such. The taller brush should also be more stable due to more of the brush in the chassis bore.


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## slotking

yeah, I knew what you were saying.
I was just trying to keep it simple.

But I assume with so many top racers using slottech brushes. they had to make something to compete with them.
just my guess

I have some coming next week and can do side to side dyno testing


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## ajd350

I think we'll all be interested to see the results.


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## smalltime

> But I assume with so many top racers using slottech brushes. they had to make something to compete with them.
> just my guess


Wizz already has brushes to "compete". Slottech was second to the table.

The "top racers" I know NEVER limit themselves to one manufacturer of brushes.

They use what works for the situation.

I have Wizz, Slottech, stock, and Thunderbrushes in my box, and change them often when conditions warrant.


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## slotking

> Wizz already has brushes to "compete". Slottech was second to the table


No, they were 3rd, wizz was 2nd, as thunder brushes were 1st.

But that has nothing to do with my statement.

i was simply talking about the speed they add. We have had a ton of cars tested, and the slottech brushes always had the higher dyno readings.

if the new wiz brushes do better, then I will running them


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## smalltime

ajd350 said:


> I think we'll all be interested to see the results.


I think other than waiting for some "dyno results", I'll just race them and see how they fair.

I've always thought that the dynos were a tool, but racing the car was always the best metric.


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## slotking

nope
it based on your driving. Yes you may like a change you did and even get better times. but did you slow the car down or speed it up with your tweaks?

For example, testing some tires, 1 pair i could see made the cars faster on 3 lanes. But the slower pair made the car faster on 1 lane.

The dyno lets me know what the results are of my tinkering.
in general, I am not trying to slow my cars down, the dyno tells me if the change I made is for the better or not. Should I have more brush tension or less, does a new pinion or crown help or hurt? Are my shoes providing max connectivity? what brand of brush provide the most speed? what armature is faster and by how much? which arm has more torque? 

Some folks have the skill do see and do the above without a dyno, but I do not.

and the guys I race with are real fast, so I do look for speed


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## Ralphthe3rd

But does a Dyno tell you if the brushes are running cooler or hotter, w/more friction and wear, or less friction and less wear on the comm ?


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## slotking

I hook up a amp meter inline
that lets me know.

higher amps = more heat

I use the vrp spring tension tool to setup my spring tension and my shoe tension,

but I can tell with happening with the dyno and amp meter.

The spring tension tool does let me setup repeatable settings


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## slotking

ok my wiz brushes came in today.

I did a video head to head with my slottech brushes that I will add to the video library on the ho-tips bb.

I wonder if they were packaged correctly??
These brushes were not even as fast as my other wiz brushes.
and way slower than my slottech brushes.


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## slotking

found my cable, uploading the vids now

will have them added to the video library on later this thursday


update
they are added to the video library


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## Ralphthe3rd

*My Testing results...(Racers NEED NOT READ)*

"MY" .02¢ ....FWIW 
I received MY samples of the NEW Dynamic T-Jet Comm Brushes last week. But it wasn't until earlier this week that I got the chance to try them out in a chassis. I chose a NOS (lighted-tho removed) Chassis that I recently got from Lucky Bob's. The Arm in this chassis tested at just over 16 ohms on each of the poles, and ran pretty zippy in stock configuration with just a rear tire change. I broke in this chassis after oiling, and put on about 100 laps. I then dismantled the chassis, cleaned and polished the comm plate on the arm, and installed some NOS A/FX Magnets and these NEW E85 Wizzard Brushes- that I sanded on a clean piece of paper. I then proceeded to do 100 MORE Laps !
Now let me say, I do NOT Own a Dyno, I use Seat of the Pants. Also, I'm not going to compare lap times, since it's not really a fair comparo since I also changed the magnets.
But my RESULTS ARE, the Car is a Rocket now, compared to the way it came from the Factory, end of story..... And of course my testing is worthless to you Hard Core Racer types.
In conclusion, I'm happy with these NEW Wizzard brushes compared to OEM Carbon brushes. And to tell the Truth I was happy with JB Brushes, the E81 Wizzards, and Slottech, which in my Cars didn't seem to run any different than any of the Other Aftermarket Brushes. But you HAVE TO Understand, I don't run $300 cars using $300 controllers on custom Tracks. I'm a Casual Basement Racer, and I'm Happy with that style and Budget of Racing.


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## slotking

the point of new brushes is to compare them with existing brushes.
do they make the car faster or slower?

from my testing the E81 are much better than the e85 I got in.

It has happen before, with the e81, there was a bad batch, I am not sure if that what happen to me, i got some bad ones??

I do not compare any after market brushes to stock because the stock brushes normally suck in comparison. ie many years of humidity and oxidation to boot.


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## slotking

before I had a dyno
I still tested stuff to see if made the car faster or not.

short the black & white controller posts on 2 lanes
put a ref car on 1 lane
put my test car on the other
supply power and watch the drag race.
make changes to the test car, and repeat


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## Ralphthe3rd

Don't forget, my OP was just asking if these Brushes were new or different, and that got answered pretty quickly. Any other replies to this Topic are really "Off Topic", but related.
But I appreciated your testing skills and posting YOUR results....as I have done the same, in a different manner. 
I really do wonder though, if You got a bad batch, where did you get yours from ? I got MINE from *BUDs HO.


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## Ralphthe3rd

*Drag testing*



slotking said:


> before I had a dyno
> I still tested stuff to see if made the car faster or not.
> 
> short the black & white controller posts on 2 lanes
> put a ref car on 1 lane
> put my test car on the other
> supply power and watch the drag race.
> make changes to the test car, and repeat


 Actually, I DID DO Similar testing on my Dragstrip, before I changed the Brushes and Magnets, and was gonna repeat the 'Strip testing afterwards. BUT, after my changes, the car would Wheelie pop the pin out of the slot on every Full throttle Start, so I gave up and didn't post anything else.


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## slotking

your post was what made me see that there were new brushes.
because I race a lot, I am always looking for an edge.

Hence my wanting to know how the new brushes work


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## ajd350

smalltime said:


> I think other than waiting for some "dyno results", I'll just race them and see how they fair.
> 
> I've always thought that the dynos were a tool, but racing the car was always the best metric.


+1 on that. I don't own a dyno. My lap times tell me all I need to know.


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## slotking

I did too for many years!
then i found a solution that saved a lot of time
and showed me stuff that I did not realize before and really had no other way to really test


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## ajd350

If it works for you, stick with it. A dyno can be a useful tool. I just use different methods. 

I do agree with your findings on the E85s as far as, that after breaking them in, the same car running old Wizzards or Slottechs run slower on E85s. Notably so. I didn't expect that. Tried them in a few known good cars.


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## slotking

thanks

I was hoping not to be crazy (too late)

looks like the way I mic them in the video was wrong.

we re-mic them and found them to be much smaller than the old wizz brushes.

which has me confused based on this post


> The new ones are E85 and are also taller than the E81.


the brushes I got are shorter than the E81's


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## Ralphthe3rd

I didn't have any of the old Wizzard E81's to compare to, so they're shorter- Eh ? Maybe then to get the most out of these E85's, you need to re-adjust your spring tension to compensate for them being shorter ?


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## slotking

spring only go so high,
mine are at the max


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## ajd350

slotking said:


> thanks
> 
> I was hoping not to be crazy (too late)
> 
> looks like the way I mic them in the video was wrong.
> 
> we re-mic them and found them to be much smaller than the old wizz brushes.
> 
> which has me confused based on this post
> 
> the brushes I got are shorter than the E81's


Yup, I screwed up. The E85s are definitely shorter. Sorry for that.


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## ajd350

Just to confuse things further, one of my racing buddies came by tonight with an E85-equipped car. Good power and plenty of speed. I drove it myself and was surprised.


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## brownie374

Another tjet mystery,do we know how the same car runs with slottechs?


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## slotking

> Just to confuse things further, one of my racing buddies came by tonight with an E85-equipped car. Good power and plenty of speed. I drove it myself and was surprised.


next try that car with the E85's, then with slottech brushes

Always only compare a care to itself.

I can build 10 identical cars, gauss the mags, ohm the arms, same chassis number & gear plate num, etc...
and i will have 10 different cars on how they perform!! LOL

Oh t-jets, got to love them!!
ok, it's the same with inline cars as well


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## Ratwagon64

OK who was at Al's doing some testing? It was not me. LOL


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## ajd350

I am only reporting on the car I actually drove, but he has done back and forth swaps on several cars with positive results. All I can say for sure is that my cars did not have the same results......yet. As far as comparing a car to itself, that's what an A B A swap is. You go back and forth with the same car changing only the part you are evaluating. Mentioned that earlier in this thread.


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## Ralphthe3rd

Ok, since my LAST Report, I have now swapped another two sets of E85's into some old (non MT) A/FX cars, which were fast runners before- while using the OEM Silver Notched brushes. My results were again Very Positive, and both cars were faster. And usually, my A/FX cars never wheelie off the start on my Dragstrip, but in this testing, the one with a really sweet Mean Green would NOW yank wheels UP after the brush Change, and that was a First for my otherwise STOCK A/FX cars ! 
YMMV


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## slotking

the old brushes are old

almost anything is faster. I found that out years ago.

try the slottech & wiz E81's
compare those 
based on my testing vs the E85, the difference is pretty big.
maybe your cars will somersault with those? LOL


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## smalltime

ajd350 said:


> Just to confuse things further, one of my racing buddies came by tonight with an E85-equipped car. Good power and plenty of speed. I drove it myself and was surprised.


Just so we're clear here.

The folks who have the dynos, will never allow anything the Wizzard makes be acceptable. Wizzard will ALWAYS fall short. That alone should tell you something.

Just try them and see how they drive.


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## slotking

> The folks who have the dynos, will never allow anything the Wizzard makes be acceptable. Wizzard will ALWAYS fall short. That alone should tell you something.


not correct

I use anything to make my cars go faster.
I use the wizzard brushes in my super stock.

I did use wizzard brushes in my t-jets for a long time.

But I have a dyno, so i can test parts! makes life real easy.
and if you read anything I said, I said the E85's are slower than the E81's

My video shows the straight up results of testing.

I was excited to try a new product, every bit of speed i can get, I try my best to do so.


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## mrtjet

OK, let's throw this into the mix. I like to let my brushes spin in the chassis. I don't know what brand of brushes I'm using or what anyone else is using either. But if I can get the hole shot and have my eyes and hands in roadrace mode(usually one or the other is in drag race mode) I can do quite well. Might even pull off a win or two. What are your thoughts on dizzy brushes?


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## ajd350

smalltime said:


> Just so we're clear here.
> 
> The folks who have the dynos, will never allow anything the Wizzard makes be acceptable. Wizzard will ALWAYS fall short. That alone should tell you something.
> 
> Just try them and see how they drive.


I'm with you. Raw speed alone does not a make great race car.


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## ajd350

mrtjet said:


> OK, let's throw this into the mix. I like to let my brushes spin in the chassis. I don't know what brand of brushes I'm using or what anyone else is using either. But if I can get the hole shot and have my eyes and hands in roadrace mode(usually one or the other is in drag race mode) I can do quite well. Might even pull off a win or two. What are your thoughts on dizzy brushes?


All I can tell you for sure is that if one of my comm brushes starts spinning in the bore, it noticeably slows the car. Guaranteed.


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## slotking

> it noticeably slows the car. Guaranteed.


I agree.

My thoughts were if they spin, it reduces friction.

But 1 day I had car that would run well, then slow down. Another racer told that my brushes might be spinning. So I cut the brushes, and the spinning stop, no more hesitation.

So I did some dyno testing of cut & uncut brushes, every time the cut(no spin) brushes were faster.


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## Ralphthe3rd

*E81 vs. E85*

Back on topic.... I was reading on another Forum, and found this recent Statement by Rich D. who is an Expert Sanctioned Racer from Connecticut.
Anyway, this is what he had to say > "Both types of Wizzard brushes are 80% copper, the carbon in the E85s seems to be better distributed, with the E81s there are pockets of carbon here and there. With the E85s the cars commutator should stay cleaner. I did observe a slight drop in lap times when I switched from E81s to E85s. "



Hmmmmm......


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## ajd350

That makes a lot of sense. Although not exclusive to Wiz E81s, I have had several comm brushes with that problem. When a good running car would slow down, I'd frequently find a large spot or a number of black 'freckles' on the face of the brush. There would also be much more black residue on the comm. I could clean the comm and the brush and the issue would immediately reappear. A new brush in it's place would cure the problem.


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## Bill Hall

*Fire starter*



ajd350 said:


> All I can tell you for sure is that if one of my comm brushes starts spinning in the bore, it noticeably slows the car. Guaranteed.


Yowsa! Second that!

Besides end float, any sloppy movement of the brushes is bad juju. It can be the precursor to resistance detonation of the comm. A stable, uninterupted, current path provides reliable performance

Outside of T-jets most all brushes are notched or stepped to keep them from wandering around.


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## mrtjet

Well as for the spinning brushes issue. Where they ride on the comm is smooth and the brushes are too. My car is as fast as the Springville cars. And they ain't slow. Slotking knows they are fast.


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## ajd350

I can't explain that. All I can relate is what I have seen and been told. Never saw an exception. When mine spin it's not like they drop anchor, but you can sure notice the difference.


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## mrtjet

ajd350 said:


> I can't explain that. All I can relate is what I have seen and been told. Never saw an exception. When mine spin it's not like they drop anchor, but you can sure notice the difference.


Yes everyone has told me "don't let the brushes get dizzy". One thing though, my other good car doesn't have dizzy brushes and may be the slightest slower. But it does have a bit better brakes. I hope to have time to build a track in a spare bedroom this winter so I can put to good use all the things I have learned here. Especially interested in getting my Slimlines up to speed. Thank you all.:thumbsup:


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## slotking

> Back on topic.... I was reading on another Forum, and found this recent Statement by Rich D. who is an Expert Sanctioned Racer from Connecticut.
> Anyway, this is what he had to say > "Both types of Wizzard brushes are 80% copper, the carbon in the E85s seems to be better distributed, with the E81s there are pockets of carbon here and there. With the E85s the cars commutator should stay cleaner. I did observe a slight drop in lap times when I switched from E81s to E85s. "


Rich is pretty good,
But how and why things are different can explain some things, but the is be able to measure things. Yeah, i know some people hate to hear the dyno thing, but the dyno provides measured results, as well running a car down the drag track. (just talking speed testing).

As far the E81 brushes, never had a problem with them that I have not seen with other brushes. out side of a bad batch e81 a few years ago, they have been great.

I tested them some more e81 & e85 and the e85 are not close to the e81.

without fail, I have not had spinning brushes every provide more speed than static brushes


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## slotking

mrtjet

I just added a new vid to my video library showing the difference of brush spin vs no spin.

I will pm you the link.


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