# AW 4 gear magnet question?



## Jim Norton (Jun 29, 2007)

Been running some AW 4 gear cars with the extra button magnets. These button magnets really add some extra downforce. I really think the car struggles down the straight due to this.

I thought about removing just one of the magnets. Has anybody done this and is it just a matter of pushing the magnets out from above?

Thanks,

Jim Norton
Huntsville, AL


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## tazman052186 (Oct 19, 2005)

I have and its not to hard to remove them. Theres a little hole above the magnet find something to push it out.


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## dlw (Aug 17, 1999)

*Straight-a-way Struggles*

One thing that may help you there, Jim....... Since you have extra downforce from the neo dots, you get a little extra leeway on pickup spring strength limits (springs making the car hop when accelerating). Give the springs a little, gentle stretching. This will give you more top speed.


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## Jim Norton (Jun 29, 2007)

Thanks so much for the springs tip!

Are the magnet dots glued or force fitted to the chassis?

Jim Norton
Huntsville, AL


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## slotking (May 27, 2008)

no
they should float freely


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## slotcarman12078 (Oct 3, 2008)

The traction mags are glued in. A gently push with the end of a paperclip is all it takes to pop them out. Just remember those magnets might be doing more than providing traction. They were the easy fix for other chassis woes. Stuff like bent axles, wheel wobbles, etc might be more apparent once the mags are gone. Also, watch them mags when you pop them out. They are really strong, and there's no telling what metal object they will attract themselves to! :lol: A certain Wile E. Coyote cartoon comes to mind...









Yeah.. That one!!!


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## tazman052186 (Oct 19, 2005)

I have had a few that were glued and some that werent.


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## Jim Norton (Jun 29, 2007)

It is amazing how magnets will compensate for chassis irregularities. I believe mine is pretty good in the axle department. I plan to only remove one of the dot magnets. Hope this gives me the best of both: a little more speed and decent handling.

Jim Norton
Huntsville, Al


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## tazman052186 (Oct 19, 2005)

If you are running straight shot it will help out. Not to sure on the road coruse type tracks. Thats what Im doing with mine. Also helps with what motor magnets you have in also. Im goin to be running with polymers and was told its better to run with just one or with out traction mags. But also its what you feel is right for your car.


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## tasman (Feb 17, 2007)

I have had trouble getting any of my 4 gears to run well. I have removed both magnets and the cars still act like something is holding them back. 

With the idler gear out the cars sound like they should be very fast. When I put them back together they just don't run well at all. I have gone through "lapping" the gears and adjusting pickup shoes - the variety of standard "tuning" tricks and nothing I do seems to make them run better.

If you have any luck please share. I purchased several of the funny cars to go with my AW drag strip and they are the worst running cars I have. Not anywhere close to the speed of recent X-tractions nor recent T-jets from AW.


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## alpink (Aug 22, 2010)

tasman, sorry you are having this experience. all my 4 gears run very well since the release of the funny cars. my batmobiles run well too. I did have a cluster gear failure in one of the batmobiles though.
not to be wise, but have you checked that the wheels aren't to tight against the chassis?
considering you have lapped the gears and checked a free running armature, I would think you have checked the wheels. I don't know what else to suggest.
with the idler out, you have easy turning of the rear axle/wheels and the rest of the gear train?


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## tazman052186 (Oct 19, 2005)

I havent had any trouble with my 4 cars just putting mean green arms in two of them.


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## tasman (Feb 17, 2007)

alpink said:


> tasman, sorry you are having this experience. all my 4 gears run very well since the release of the funny cars. my batmobiles run well too. I did have a cluster gear failure in one of the batmobiles though.
> not to be wise, but have you checked that the wheels aren't to tight against the chassis?
> considering you have lapped the gears and checked a free running armature, I would think you have checked the wheels. I don't know what else to suggest.
> with the idler out, you have easy turning of the rear axle/wheels and the rest of the gear train?


There is no noticable binding with the rear wheels/axle gear. They spin free and easy with the idler gear out. To give you some idea how badly mine are performing....

On my 12 foot AW drag strip a good running recent X-traction Ultra-g will beat my fastest 4 gear by roughtly 4-5 feet. That's right 4-5 feet!

There was very little improvement by removing one or both of the traction magnets on the 4 gears. They just act like something is binding in the gear train but repeated "lapping" doesn't seem to help.

Maybe my expectations are too high for this particular design. I don't want to high-jack this thread but maybe Jim is having the same problem I am. I feel like my 4 gears are struggling down the straights with or without traction magnets!

I don't know, maybe the gearing makes these cars slower than X-tractions. How do your 4 gears perform compared to a good running X-traction Ultra -G?

Thanks.


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## tazman052186 (Oct 19, 2005)

My stock 4 gears kill my xtractions.


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## tasman (Feb 17, 2007)

*Check Brushes*

I worked on 1 of my 4 gears last night and noticed that the brushes seemed to be sitting really high and that the com had quite a bit of black residue on it. I cleaned the com and adjusted the brushes and that freed up the motor quite a bit.

Now when I cut power there is a more normal spin down of the arm. Before the arm was stopping very quickly. Still not as quick as my x-tractions but better.

I don't know if this will hold true for the rest of my 4 gears but that will be my weekend project.


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## dlw (Aug 17, 1999)

Tasman, any chance you could post pics of your 4-Gear? A look at the underside, how the brushes sit in their cups, and fully assembled top view? Maybe seeing the car can help us identify a problem.


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## tasman (Feb 17, 2007)

dlw said:


> Tasman, any chance you could post pics of your 4-Gear? A look at the underside, how the brushes sit in their cups, and fully assembled top view? Maybe seeing the car can help us identify a problem.


Be glad to...I'll take some pics tonight and try to get them posted.


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## tasman (Feb 17, 2007)

Here are some close-ups of one of my 4 gears that I haven't tried to tune yet. If you look close you can still see the factory lubricant around the gears.

This is typical of all of the 4 gears I have. When the idler gear is removed it sounds like it should be fast. The arm does not seem to be as free spinning (stops quicker when powered off) than most of my AW xtractions. When put back together it struggles to make it around my tyco track, almost stopping in several places. On my AW drag strip it is half as fast as a typical AW X-traction Utra-G.

As I mentioned earlier, removing the DF magnets has not made any real diffenrence, still seems like something is holding it back. On other 4 gears I have lapped the gears with very little improvement. I have tried to adjust pickup shoes and nothing I have tried so far seems to work very well. 

My last tuning attempt I tried forcing the brushes lower and that seemed to allow the arm to spin down more freely but the performance gain seemed very modest.

Any suggestions are appreciated.


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## dlw (Aug 17, 1999)

Ok, in pic #4, it looks like the front comm brush holder is hanging a little low. It should be parallel with the chassis and recessed up inside (just like the rear comm-brush holder).

Also, it looks like the pick-up shoes aren't getting a proper wear pattern. Grab a 6" piece of track and place your car on it.....You'll see what I mean.


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## slotcarman12078 (Oct 3, 2008)

Question... What are you using for a lubricant? A drop of red oil at the bottom of the arm, and either a light oil or I've read Armorall for the plastic gears up top. A drop or less of red oil at the rear axle holes might help too. Check for binding of both axles.


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## Jim Norton (Jun 29, 2007)

Remove the two gears that come off. Take each individually between your thumb and index finger and gently rub a file againt the teeth. The effort is to reduce the diameter of the gear by about 1/100 of and inch or so. Re-install and oil. See if that helps.

Jim Norton
Huntsville, AL


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## slotcarman12078 (Oct 3, 2008)

One other thing to keep in mind. At least on the one 4 gear I had, the idler gear is on the brittle side. Tread lightly or risk breaking a tooth or two!!


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## LeeRoy98 (Jul 8, 2005)

tasman said:


> Here are some close-ups of one of my 4 gears that I haven't tried to tune yet. If you look close you can still see the factory lubricant around the gears.
> 
> This is typical of all of the 4 gears I have. When the idler gear is removed it sounds like it should be fast. The arm does not seem to be as free spinning (stops quicker when powered off) than most of my AW xtractions. When put back together it struggles to make it around my tyco track, almost stopping in several places. On my AW drag strip it is half as fast as a typical AW X-traction Utra-G.
> 
> ...


I always disassemble any AW chassis and clean all of their "factory lubricant" before running any of them. While not as bad as they used to be, I have had them new from the package where it appeared they lubricated the comm and then did a test run!!
While the chassis is disassembled and magnets and brushes removed, I would install the armature and gear plate minus any gears and test for any binding of the armature or rear gear setup. I would then replace the gears and test that everything is smooth and there is no binding. Now replace the brushes and see how much drag has been added. Clean everything including the comm plate and reassemble taking the time to correctly oil (a lot of critical points are easier to access while disassembled). Test and repeat if necessary.

Gary
AKA LeeRoy98
www.marioncountyraceway.com


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## tasman (Feb 17, 2007)

Thanks guys for the suggestions. The pics I posted were from a 4 gear that I haven't done any tuning on. Jim, I haven't tried your suggestion about filing the removable gears, I will give that a try. On the cars I have tuned I have tried to adjust the pickup shoes - no luck - I will revist that again.


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## dlw (Aug 17, 1999)

Try a gentle stretching of the pickup springs. You want them almost to the point of making the front end hop.


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## dlw (Aug 17, 1999)

*Hey Jim*

How are your 4-gears coming, let us know.....


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