# Polar Light Forum?



## Lloyd Collins (Sep 25, 2004)

I see we have rotating sponsors instead of just seeing PL. 
So I guess RC2 caught on and pulled sponsorship.
I know the Forum will stay but it looks strange not seeing PL banner.


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## Mark McGovern (Apr 25, 1999)

*Oh, ah.*

For one who has not yet posted even 118 posts, you are a wise man, Lloyd Collins...


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## JamesDFarrow (Sep 18, 1999)

If you go to the Forums menu:

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/forumdisplay.php?f=4

It says that a sponsor is needed for the Polar Lights forum.

James


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## iamweasel (Aug 14, 2000)

Gee I think the shock of this may cause me to have a heart attack..........naw just kidding we all saw this coming. If RC/Ertl/AMT/PL/JL/QP/DB/MK comes out with anything decent after Captain America and the E-A I'll get it but few cars do much for me.
Exit, stage left even.


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## Lloyd Collins (Sep 25, 2004)

What ever happens, we will be here. I like it here, good people. I have been posting on forums everywhere for less than a month. I lurked here for 6 months before signing up.
I have been out of modeling for years,now I am back and having fun.

So let us just have fun, keep going like there is no tomorrow. 
I wish Dave would visit just to let us know what he is up to. Never met him but, while lurking I always felt the joy when he posted. 

I got signed up after I met Thomas Sasser. He was surprised that I knew about his work for Polar Lights. I am glad I joined.

Lloyd


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## Lloyd Collins (Sep 25, 2004)

Silly me, I see Dave came on before I posted. Next time I need to put my glasses on. :lol:


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## Brent Gair (Jun 26, 1999)

When you really think about it...

Yeah, the passing of the PL Forum really punctuates the end of an era.

However, if you look at the evolution of the PL product line, is any purpose served by a Polar Lights Forum?

When I first joined up, PL's product line was about 70% Aurora repops (Bride of Frank, the monster rods, etc.) with the remaining kits being in the Aurora spirit (Jupiter 2). That was the way the company continued to evolve for several years with the famous Guillotine, Prisoner, Michael Myers, Phantom of the Opera, Godzilla, King Kong, Seaview, Spindrift, Batplane and more. It was always that mix of repops and original models of unusual subjects. This made PL a company that was absolutely unlike any other styrene kit company on the face of the earth. They truly were unique. Unique companies deserved a unique forum.

A few years ago, several modelers expressed an ill-advised desire to see PL start doing Trek kits. As I predicted then and I as I say to you now, Star Trek will be the end of Polar Lights. The product line that built Polar Lights is gone and will never return. PL will come to the same end as AMT. The Trek modellers will stock up on kits and then sales will stagnate after pent up demand is satisfied.

So what purpose does a PL board serve. There is alread a BB here that is for "Star Trek and Science Fiction" models. Over at Cults new BB, his sci-fi board specifically says it's there to talk about "...your Star Trek and Star Wars" models. Trekkies either own or have hijacked every sci-fi site on the net.

How many boards does it take for somebody to ask, "What color is the Enterprise?" at least 10 times per week? How many boards does it take for somebody to ask, "How can I light my Enterprise?" at least 10 times per week? How many boards are required for people to complain about Berman and Braga? How many Trek "wish lists" can be posted in a week?

Face it, the PL Forum no longer serves a unique purpose. It's redundant.


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## ken072359 (Aug 1, 2003)

Brent Gair said:


> When you really think about it...
> 
> Yeah, the passing of the PL Forum really punctuates the end of an era.
> 
> ...


I agree completely with your sentiments, but . . .

. . . There are some things I've been wondering about . . .

1. What is the color of the Enterprise?

2. How can I light my Enterprise? I'm talking about the PL Enterprise, not the 18", or the 22". 

3. I'm having problems with getting the nacelles to snap on, does anyone have any suggestions? 

4. What is that "thingy" on the front of the saucer? 

5. Does anyone else think the copyright molded on the lower saucer sets a bad precedence, or could such a horrible thing have been done because Brannon and Braga got Paramount licensing to get even with us complainers?

6. I don't think the decals provided with the kit are 150% accurate, is it possible that someone out there has made better ones, and if so, are they for sale?

7. BTW, What's up with Brannon and Braga? What are they thinking?


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

_"What color is the Enterprise?"

"How can I light my Enterprise?"_


Now it's 11 times. Damn these Trekkies, anyway!


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## phrankenstign (Nov 29, 1999)

According to the description of this forum.....it's still the "Official Playing Mantis supported Polar Lights discussion"......

Should we stage a coup and sponsor it ourselves?

Then we could have endless discussions about Big Frankie, Dr. Jekyll as Mr. Hyde, The Go Cart, monsterluver, Lisa,.....etc........and even off-topic discussions!!!!


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## phrankenstign (Nov 29, 1999)

And in the end.....

The love you take....

............................is equal to the love you make.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Ah, but there was at least one good use for this forum (apart from making friends) - I made the suggestion that repops of the old Aurora model stand be included with the Spindrift kit. I know they were _not _planning to include it, and I'm under the impression they included it based on my suggestion. So now after buying 5 each of the Spindrift and Batplane, I have enough of the best stand ever designed to mount a _bunch _of my sci fi vehicles.

So I'm happy .


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## Dave Hussey (Nov 20, 1998)

But Polar Lights could have given us *so much more*: 


Proteus, 
Fantastic Voyage Voyager,
Martian War Machine, 
Planet of the Apes Icarus, 
Earth vs the Flyings Saucers Saucer, 
When Worlds Collide Ark, 
George Pal Time Machine, 
Cavorite Sphere, 
Disney Nautilus, 
bigger more accurate Seaview etc etc. 
Trek shmek. Its resin kits for me.

Huzz


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## ost15jr (Apr 4, 2002)

BUUUURRRNNN the Trekkies!!! EVIL, they are!!  

BIG FRANKIE, BIG FRANKIE!! 
DR. JEKYLL AS MR. HYDE!!!


:dude:


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## Arronax (Apr 6, 1999)

I've said it before when the Cult board closed on Hobbytalk, it's like losing a part of your childhood. I really returned to modeling when I discovered Steve's board and this one. 

Admittedly, it's never been the same place since Lisa "left" but it'll always be one of the places that I re-learned to love model building.

Jim


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## MonsterModelMan (Dec 20, 2000)

What is everyone so doom and gloom about? This forum is still here and so are we! If RC2PL chooses not to participate in support of this forum...so what!
Between here, the Clubhouse and Steve's place....who really cares what RC2PL is doing or not! 

Get a grip! It is not the end of modeling.....and there will be others in time...

Until then....let's talk Aurora, lets talk MPC, lets talk Horizon, lets talk Geometrics, lets talk about custom bases...lets talk about PL repop bases too JP! Lets talk about reconditioning our PL kits or getting replacement parts for the PL Captain America to make it look like original Aurora kit and ...need I go on?

MMM


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

Brent Gair said:


> When you really think about it...
> 
> Yeah, the passing of the PL Forum really punctuates the end of an era.
> 
> ...


Hmmm...

interesting hypothesis.

But flawed.

Since PL bought the Aurora rights, they could and did repop all they wanted to. 

Building Trek kits involved hiring a total of *ONE* person they contracted with to produce the kit prototypes.

The Trek line in no way stopped PL from producing or repoping other kits if they would have wanted to, as Dave Metzner pointed out more then once they made their subject release decisions based on their own marketing decisions.

I remember Dave Metzner _*very strongly and roughly*_ responding to more then one of the suggestions that Dave Hussey has made from the list above.

His and PL's decisions not to produce them had nothing to do with Trek, right or wrong they simply didn't believe the stuff would sell!




The 1/1000th TOS E kits kicked and continue to kick but as far as sales. A shipment rarely stays on Target's shelves over a couple of days, according to stockperson that works at the one near where I work.

The production of the D-7 was screwed up at the factory, which had nothing to do with the subject matter. They could just as easily produced an oversize Captain America with a screwed up neck as they could have a D-7!

Because of initial problems with test shots they missed the entire Christmas selling season for the NX-01 as the first cuts of the molds produced parts that weren't up to par and had to be resent before the final cuts were done. 

How much did that cost them? We'll never know.

Also, let's not forget that PL put off producing the Refit or TOS E in 1/350th and *instead produced the least Enterprise from the least popular Trek series ever*! Perhaps thinking making Trek modelers wait for the kits we really want would somehow increase sales later.

They claim that decision, as well as the announcement of the decision of the Scorpion, was theirs alone and had nothing to do with contractual agreements with Paramount.

Maybe that was true, maybe not.

If it was true then their marketing people got too damned cute for their own good.

They thought they were so smart and market savvy that they out-thought themselves!

The lesson: make the kits people want the most first and when you've sold tons of that you'll have the profits to make the lesser desirable stuff.

Don't make the less desirable stuff first.

But again, Dave and the rest didn't fail to do some of the other kits mentioned above or more repops because of Trek. They rightly or wrongly just plain didn't think they would sell!!!

Anyone remember this exchange over that very subject?
One which I myself complained about as over the top and rude towards figure and Aurora fans?

*"Dave Hussey *
_*Elder Statesman*_
*Location: St. John's ,Newfoundland , Canada Well then, I'll just consider myself told off!*

*Dave Metzner *
_*Elder Statesman*_
*Consider me tired of answering this question repeatedly.*
_*No offense intended but this ground has been plowed twice a year for the laste two or three years. I have tried to answer as diplomatically as I could in the past I'm sorry if my diplomacy skills have desrted me!*_


*Dave Hussey *
_*Elder Statesman*_
*Well, you should quickly re-acquire them. I do believe that one of the original rules of this board was to be polite and respectful.*
*Any time you have contact with your customer, you have a golden opportunity to affect the relationship with him. That relationship sustains the profitablity you spoke of earlier. Its quite disconcerting to get shut down by one of the principals of PL for a harmless comment.*
*The large number of Polar Lights kits displayed on my shelf, stored in my basement and just purchased a few days ago attest to the good relationship I've enjoyed with you guys to date. Let's keep it that way, shall we?*
*Huzz*


*Dave Metzner *
_*Elder Statesman*_
*I am sorry if my comments (now edited) regarding The voyager kit from Fantastic Voyage have offended members of the BB.*
_*To Dave Hussey in particular I'm sorry if you were offended. My response was not intended as an effort to put anybody down , just an explanation of the reasons for not choosing to produce a particular kit.*_
_*My choice of words was not among the best I've ever made.*_
*I am pretty much THE guy who tries to make Polar Lights kits happen. I am not a hard core Aurora kit guy, just a model kit guy. *
_*We are trying our best to produce kits that our customers will like, while at the same time trying to grow our business. *_
_*We must make choices every time we try to plan for the future, We only have a given budget to spend on developing kits so we have to try to get the most bang for the company's buck. That usually means we have to chose between Star Trek and Voyager from Fantastic Voyage . Or between Doctor Jeckyl and a Batmobile.*_
_*Once more I'm sorry that these choices will not make everybody happy but they are a necessary fact of life in this business.*_
*Once more I'm sorry for losing my cool on this one!*
*Dave*


*Zathros *
_*Member*_
_*I am ONLY gonna say ONE more thing on this: If I recall Correctly, and I believe it IS in Print, The FIRST Idea to produce the VERY first Horror kit by aurora,( Frankenstein) was met with GREAT skepticism, & shot down more than once, before it went into production.. I believe it was a GREAT hit...Just because ANYONE (in the biz or NOT) thinks something won't sell, DOES NOT mean it won't....I am NOT the kind of guy that will Just agree for the sake of agreeing..SORRY Dave, and NO insult intended, but I THINK that the BIG frankie, & the Jekyll & Hyde, & The Voyager would sell WELL..And were the revenue for tooling be available to me, I would certainly PUT MY MONEY WHERE MY MOUTH is....*_
*Report Post | IP: Logged*
*Zathros *
_*Member*_

*Joined: Dec 2000*
_*Location: NY Ok, I said I wouldnt say anymore, but I Just HAD to get in on this one more time...If I remember correctly, I THINK this WHOLE TERRIFIC company called PL was started from Tom Lowe's desire for a couple of "obscure " and "Poorly sold" in its day Aurora Kits..: The Addams Family Haunted House, and the Mummy's chariot..The Monsters on hotrods are documented as being LOUSY sellers for Aurora, hence thier rarity and the Addams family House was in production for ONLY one catalogue..BUT Somehow PL repopped them and they did well..I am NOT trying to restart the flames here, I am Simply saying what I said before..NO ONE can REALLY tell how well ANY kit will do..BUT to SIMPLY say "No Way" is not ( in my opinion)the way to go, simply because many of PL's Repops SOLD Badly in Aurora's initial Release.case in point again: Wonder Woman..YES Dave, you, again, in my opinion have done a TERRIFIC job and have brought me pleasure BEYOND my WILDEST Dreams with these great Aurora Re-pops as well as PLs OWN kits, But I am not going to Fear disagreeing with you due to your position at Polar Lights, as SOME may have done here..I will ALWAYS support PL and will continue to buy just about Every kit that comes out that I like, BUT again..I DO Not agree with you on the kits I mentioned in my earlier thread: Voyager, Big Frankie, & The Jekyll & Hyde..I believe that you are MISTAKEN..I believe that those kits WOULD sell well..."*_

Maybe those kits would have sold.

But they were not made because PL thought they wouldn't have made money for the company.

Stop using Trek fans as a whipping boy, Brent.

Bitch about the people who didn't give you what you asked for in this forum.
Trek fans certainly didn't get the subjects they wanted most either, and it's still questionable if they will get anything past the Refit- even that is not certain until it is on the shelves.

Stop blaming Trek fans because we have gotten a couple of good kits out of the company so far. 

Trek fans have gotten far less kits from PL then you have gotten repops and figure kits.

If PL didn't think there were profitable kits to repop that you wished they had, it's not the fault of Trek fans.

Please look for scapegoats elsewhere.


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## Dave Hussey (Nov 20, 1998)

Chuck.

Whoa! I think you are misreading me or my words aren't reflecting my meaning there old friend!

I am not:

using Trek fans as a whipping boy;

blaming Trek fans because they have gotten a couple of good kits out of the company so far;

looking for scapegoats.
I have no problem with Trek kits. I plan to buy the upcoming geezly big Enterprise! I just wanted to point out that Polar Lights could give us so much more from the general science fiction genre (and provided some examples of that) rather than focussing exclusively on Star Trek.

My "Trek Shmek" remark was just intended to convey my frustration that the focus has been on Trek to the detriment of other subjects, not to crap on Trek or its fans.

Huzz


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## beck (Oct 22, 2003)

i like Phrank's idea .
hb


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

Dave Hussey said:


> Chuck.
> 
> Whoa! I think you are misreading me or my words aren't reflecting my meaning there old friend!
> 
> ...


Sorry if I left the impression that I thought you were.

My response was mainly towards Brent's statements and the statements of many of the "me-too" crowd that often likes to pile on when it comes to the the Aurora/figure vs other subjects crowd.

When I made the comment "Maybe those kits would have sold, Zathros, Dave Hussey."(I've since edited the post above to avoid further confusion)

I meant simply to imply that you might have been correct, not that you think that Trek was "the end of Polar Lights."

There were several non-Trek kits I would have liked to have seen as well, including a bigger Seaview that didn't cost $1000 bucks like the DeBoer one.

My point is that the reason these kits weren't made was because the marketing staff made those decisions.

They also made some dumb decisions in their Trek subject selection as well.

Finally, I also wanted to remind everyone that Trek fans only have gotten three kits from Polar Lights, one of which was royally screwed up at the factory.

Even counting that, Trek fans getting three kits doesn't begin to compare to the number of great repops that Aurora and figure kit fans have gotten.

I hope Brent and others who might initially agree with him consider this and not begrudge us the three kits we've gotten compared to the tons of other great kits that they have gotten.

I don't feel that the Trek line hurt the company at all.
The TOS E flys off shelves.
The factory screwing up the D-7 and PL's missing last year's lucrative Christmas season due to production problems is also hardly the fault of the fact that these two last releases were Trek subjects.

Poor management at the factory or even lack of communication on the part of PL perhaps, but that is the fault of PL management and could have happened on a Captain America model or Seaview just as easily.


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## Mitchellmania (Feb 14, 2002)

I used to like Star Trek, but after the past year or so on this BB,
I'm starting to dislike it here. This place isn't what it used to be-
a place for Aurora Monster fans.


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## BatToys (Feb 4, 2002)

Maybe RC2 has its own board and we'll join that?


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## Ignatz (Jun 20, 2000)

Naaaaah!


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## dreamer (Jan 1, 1970)

The BB changed weh we lost Lisa. It's changed a number of times. It keeps changing. Change is inevitable. 

So what difference between now and what we've had over the last year? No more contests, and Dave is posting a lot less. Otherwise, no diff I can see. The mod and asst. mod had a supervisorial style of not being highly visible active participants (that's not a criticism, every mod has their own approach they think works and are comfortable with). Dave stepped in in that role when he had to. He just said that he still will.

So now it's the _Un_official Polar Lights Bulletin Board? Sad, but...things change. And they will again. It's still here for now, I intend to keep taking advantage of it while we have the chance.

Take it philosophically. PL had something great and now it's gone. Blame what you like for the decision not to continue to support it. It's not the same feeling, but _we_ are still the same community using it.


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## Lloyd Collins (Sep 25, 2004)

BatToys said:


> Maybe RC2 has its own board and we'll join that?


I will join a RC2 forum, when they pry my PL refit from cold dead hands!


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## Dave Hussey (Nov 20, 1998)

I hope we continue to see activity from what Polar Lights has morphed into or been absorbed by. That means I still hope for more monsters, sci fi subjects and yes, even Trek kits.

But just the same, I am going to pick up those Polar lights kits that I don't yet have like the _Forgotten Prisoner_ and an extra _Spindrift_ or two.

Just in case.

Huzz


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## TheYoshinator! (Apr 2, 2004)

I understand and simpathise with the guys that are Aurora fans. It's hard NOT to be affected by Trek fans on this BB, when so many have come. When the 'Bigger Boat' thread has reached over 76,000 views, it's hard to imagine there has been no effect.

I'm a Jhonnie come lately to this Board. It was due to the Trek influence I must admit. I have really enjoyed the likes of Mark Gagen and Phil Broad with their never ending quest for knowledge on the subject of Trek models. I have enjoyed the taunts and teases of Mr. Sasser who I KNOW knows more than he tells. So waiting and catching bits and peices has been a joy.

But even as a TREK fan, I too notice that the BB has changed in just these few months I've been here. I hope it gets back to what it was and hope the interim is just a calm before another storm of great fun.

It's a shame we seem to have lost the Polar Lights sponsorship. It doesn't boad well for PL's future to have what seems to point to a far lesser presence on the web, but all we can do is wait and see.

:wave:


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

Mitchellmania said:


> I used to like Star Trek, but after the past year or so on this BB,
> I'm starting to dislike it here. This place isn't what it used to be-
> a place for Aurora Monster fans.


I understand your feelings. But remember it is, or was, a Polar Lights board, not a strictly Aurora Monster fans board. Trek was(and hopefully a least a few more will continue to be among) what was being produced for a relatively short time compared to the original streak of Aurora repops - not all of which where even figure kits.

When Trek is what is being produced, it seems kind of silly to think that Trek wouldn't be what was being talked about the most.

If PL were doing a Space:1999 or Galactica series of models I'd likewise expect most people to be talking about those models as well. It is only natural that people would be talking about kits that are in the works rather then kits and subjects that aren't.

PL did a ton of Aurora repops, and only three Trek kits, one of which was screwed up by the factory. So the overwhelming number of subjects done by PL were non-Trek. No need to feel resentfull over three or four kits considering how many Aurora repops have been released by comparison.

Hopefully Trek fans will at least get a 1/350th Enterprise Refit if nothing more, and I wish the best for those who are waiting for the Captain America repop.:thumbsup:


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## fjimi (Sep 29, 2004)

Very insightful thread albeit sad - I wish I joined sooner. I just found out about the reissues in the past few months when searching on models I did as a kid. The Trek threads don't bug me and I read them too. A monster only sub cat would be nice but with the state of the (dis)union...waddoiknow


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## Lloyd Collins (Sep 25, 2004)

Even though I am a Die Hard Star Trek Fan , I do check out threads about Aurora Monsters. I have had them when I was younger,and I have an unbuilt Wolfman (Monogram) and the Planet of the Apes repops. Which I will built one day. But when I started my lurking here it was because of ST.

Even though I started this thread, I think we should calm down, and enjoy our time here. We have the Captain America figure, the Refit, and AMT Star Wars coming. And always someone showing their finished models to enjoy. 

So lets have fun and go build some models.


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## ChrisW (Jan 1, 1970)

You know, the pressure's off. What some folks feared came to pass, and the world didn't end.
I intend to keep posting, discussing models, monsters, OT stuff, and generally relaxing and enjoying myself while I'm visiting. 
Lisa's a sweetheart, Tom Lowe fulfilled a whole lot of our modeling wishes, Dave Metzner is a great guy with the right attitude, Jerry Gustafson is one of the nicest folks you'd ever want to meet, and Lori was as pleasant as she could be. And I'm very happy to know you guys and consider you friends. :thumbsup:


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## Just Plain Al (Sep 7, 1999)

Ah geez Chris, you've got me all misty eyed. Can we get a group hug over here.


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## beck (Oct 22, 2003)

yeah , what Lloyd and Chris said . 
hb


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## Zathros (Dec 21, 2000)

*Star TREK and More of the same..*

*I can certainly understand some of those that think that The Star Trek license acquired by PL was not the BEST idea for them..but first and foremost : I myself am a HUGE Star Trek fan..I got just about EVERYTHING I could have gotten: Figures, prop replicas, and of course 35 YEARS of Model kits..As far back as I can remember even UP until TODAY..I have YET to go into a Hobby shop and NOT see a Star Trek kit on the shelf somewhere, along with ALL the OTHER "mainstream kits"..**AMT Cranked them out like they were jellybeans from the 70's up through the 1990's..the point I am making is what I think others may be making as well..NOTHING against the Star Trek Fans, including myself..BUT..Star Trek has BEEN around..and will CONTINUE to be around..**I think some of us meant that its time that OTHER subjects in the realm of Sci-Fi and Figures should have been looked at BEFORE a 40 YEAR saga that EVERYBODY else has been on the wagon with anyway..PL/RC could have done a bit more with other subjects BEFORE they dumped a TON of Money on a Star Trek License..& I think that they will see that in the end, that the Star Trek Kits MAY NOT sell as well as they thought they would..WHY? NOT Because there is anything basically WRONG with Star Trek subjects..But Rather, because it is SIMPLY an OLD franchise, and its Appeal will NOT GO to a "mass Market" which PL was SO fond of constantly telling us whenever we asked for a particular kit , or repop, **but its appeal will only go to Star Trek Collectors and modelers..and there may not be NOT enough of them , since NOT ALL of them are modelers..*


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## MangoMan (Jul 29, 1999)

I dunno, Zathros, but I'd be willing to wager that the Enterprise has captured the top-selling prize away from the Mystery Machine, or at least away from number 2, which was Crash Bandicoot, I believe. (I think I remember reading a statement that Crash had sold more than any of the Aurora kits, but that was many moons ago, and I have swiss cheese for memory.)

Since PL has, and probably will, never released their sales numbers, we'll never know. Ya know?


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## Guest (Oct 21, 2004)

Hi all,

Lloyd had visited us over on the Johnny Lightning board (he thought we were sponsored by RC2 :lol: )

Just wanted to say:

Johnny Lightning dropped the sponsorship of the board 3 or more years ago and even kinda banned employees from posting for a while. We got a new, better sponsor, the members all stuck with it, now some of the employess (what are left) and even the former employees come and hang out and the board is probably even better than it was before, so I wouldn't act like it was the end, just a kind of re-birth.

:thumbsup: 

Rob


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## Mark McGovern (Apr 25, 1999)

*Things aren't as bad as they seem.*



Lloyd Collins said:


> So lets have fun and go build some models.


Which was what we were doing before there even _was _a board, remember?




> ...And I'm very happy to know you guys and consider you friends. :thumbsup:


Back atcha, Chris!




robmcin said:


> ...so I wouldn't act like it was the end, just a kind of re-birth.


Food for thought, rob.

And if I may add: there shouldn't be any more hostility toward the Star Trek fans than there is toward any other mavens. After all, it seems that *every *genre of plastic model builders has its share of accuracy-obsessed members who will discuss _ad infinitum _the shortcomings of every new release, or how to make their models look more like the subject the kits represent. Sure the "...Bigger Boat" thread has generated thousands of views - but how many more figure kit threads have been posted since this board began? I remember posting several replies on the subject of what shade of green to paint Frankenstein's Monster, which I submit was every bit as picyune as any discussion of what color to paint what hull of what Star Trek vehicle.

Things are changing, and it is for us to deal with the changes as best we can. As I've mentioned elsewhere, even if RC2PL's plastic model kit production were to come to a screeching halt, I for one could spend the rest of my life just building the stash of kits I already have. And that's to say nothing of the continuing Garage Kit output. Nor should we forget that there are plenty of Aurora reissue kits that are available courtesy of e-You-Know-Who, et al. Contrast that with the pre-PL days, when even built-ups couldn't be had without spending a princely penny.

If this board were to die off for lack of sponsorship, there's still be the Clubhouse. If not there, then the Internet is rife with alternatives. We're far from losing our hobby; we just need to adapt as things change.


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## Zathros (Dec 21, 2000)

Mark McGovern said:


> Which was what we were doing before there even _was _a board, remember?
> 
> 
> Back atcha, Chris!
> ...


As Ive said TIME & TIME again...If polar lights does NOT produce ANY more repops or original subjects from TODAY ON..I am MORE than satisfied with what they DID produce till now..I AM disappointed that after them making a TON of money from us on the kits they DID produce, and selling the company for 19 MILLION bucks that they suddenly got "cold feet" and did not go the extra last mile and were afraid to spend a few extra thousand of risk taking capital that Companies like Aurora did READILY..But HELL..I dont own the company ..what I DO OWN is a CASE of Aurora Robots, a half case of Cyclops & Chariots, ALL the Monster reissues 2 of each, TRU exclusives and a few Frightening Lightening 4 packs, and ALL the Vehicles and kits from the Irwin Allen universe ( that I thought id NEVER EVER SEE again!), 2 C57D's,Robby the robots, and just about EVERYTHING ELSE in the Aurora style that PL produced..& UNLIKE the old days BEFORE PL..I didnt have to take another mortguage OR sell my daughter into SLAVERY to the GREEDY Money HUNGRY vintage TRASH Model dealers to own them..Therefore I GOT LOTS to BUILD, and plenty of trading stock should I ever need another kit that isnt produced anymore..Besides..What am I GONNA DO with 6 Go karts anyway???..To ME..PL is pretty "dead" in the spirit that I enjoyed..I HOPE I am WRONG..but if I am NOT wrong..I have a LIFETIME of Refueled memories and GREAT building adventures in store for me thanks to POLAR LIGHTS...[/QUOTE]


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## Mark McGovern (Apr 25, 1999)

*Good sons of Harvey Dent?*

Zathros,

It seems to me that you and I are the two sides of the same coin. The denomination of this coin is our love of Polar Lights. One side is optimistic about PL's future, the other side is pessimistic. RC2 has flipped the coin - we'll just have to see how it lands.


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## Ziz (Feb 22, 1999)

Right now, the coin is balanced on edge.


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## Mark McGovern (Apr 25, 1999)

Ziz,

I'd like to think of the coin as being still in the air. It can land on either side or (Heaven help us) on that edge. But we won't know for sure until RC2PL tells us, so I just can't see the purpose of all this hand-wringing.

- Particularly with *Halloween* just around the corner! :devil:


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## Ziz (Feb 22, 1999)

I just keep seeing this whole situation turning into the corporate equivalent of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

They want us to buy sci-fi kits, but they don't go out of their way to produce anything we want, or of decent quality, then subsequently turn around and complain that we don't buy them.

I've been in sales the majority of my working life, so forgive me if that gives me a somewhat more skeptical, but at the same time experienced, view of corporate sales mentality.

Amazing how many people lately seem to hate the fact that my opinions are different from theirs.


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## Lloyd Collins (Sep 25, 2004)

Ziz said:


> Amazing how many people lately seem to hate the fact that my opinions are different from theirs.


We do not hate you. We are different and we are think differenially. I find opinions are hard to take, but they get us to think,and sometime they help us to grow in our views of what is going on. 

RC2 has bought Polar Lights. Polar light had employees that thought enought of us to let us know what was going on and took our suggestions. We should remember and be grateful for that. RC2/PL is new and things will not be the same.So I say e-mail,write or even call them and tell them what we would like to see. They might listen. We should tell them about our forum and invite them to check us out. I will.

Lloyd :wave:


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## Arronax (Apr 6, 1999)

Ziz said:


> Amazing how many people lately seem to hate the fact that my opinions are different from theirs.


I think you're being a little hard on other people here. They don't hate the fact that your opinion is different, they just really hope that you're not right. Mark's right, their really isn't any use for all this hand ringing, we just have to wait and see.

Having said that, I have a bad feeling about this and PL model builders are not going to like modeling as RC2/ERTL/PL might present it to us.

Jim


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## beck (Oct 22, 2003)

Ziz , not a thing wrong with being realistic . we need everyone's opinions here . call it balance . 
one thing i do think PL has done for the industry is it's made RC2 and R/M take notice that there is a market for the old stuff and stuff based on the old shows . 
R/M has put out a bunch of products from their old molds some even in " retro " boxes ( i'm just waiting for Hobby Lobby to have a sale so's i can grab that Big Deuce ) . and who'd a thunk 5 years ago that RC2 ( or anyone for that matter ) would have put out a 1/18th scale die cast Munster's Koach .
but there it is sittin' in my closet . 
not going to be unrealistic but i'm not going to ring the death bell either . 
hb 
ps btw the Big Deuce isn't in a retro box but it's still a great old kit to have .


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## Ziz (Feb 22, 1999)

Arronax said:


> I think you're being a little hard on other people here.


Other people, yeah, I don't deny it. Not all of them are _here_ though...know what I mean? 



> They don't hate the fact that your opinion is different, they just really hope that you're not right.


Yes, and luckily, you're one of the ones who's smart enough to realize that. Unfortunately, most of them (again, not all of them _here_) don't take the time to look at it that way. All they know is their own opinion, and anyone who disagrees with them is wrong.

That being said, I'm perfectly willing to wait and see what happens, and I hope I AM proven wrong. I just prefer to be proven wrong by *FACTS*, not by someone else pounding their opinion down on top of me because it's different from theirs.



> Mark's right, their really isn't any use for all this hand ringing, we just have to wait and see.
> 
> Having said that, I have a bad feeling about this and PL model builders are not going to like modeling as RC2/ERTL/PL might present it to us.
> 
> Jim


Which is part of the reason why I'm not afraid to talk about how this whole situation pisses me off. Maybe someone at RC will read this and decide to do something about it to change our opinion of them and win back our business. It's easy for them to turn their back on us and make excuses why they shouldn't make sci-fi models, but reality is that doing that isn't good from a customer service/public relations perspective.

With any kind of luck, the right person will figure out that, from a business perspective, they have to look farther ahead than their next paycheck.


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## Zathros (Dec 21, 2000)

I HATE to sound SOO pessimistic..However to me, It seems OBVIOUS that R/M ( I believe) Bought Playing Mantis PRIMARILY for its Johnny Lightning Line, since that was MUCH MORE Successful & FARR More lucrative For Playing mantis that Polar Lights EVER was...After all..They DID Pay 19 MILLION dollars for the company..PL 's worth kitwise, has got to be NOWHERE NEAR that...


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## Ziz (Feb 22, 1999)

Which is exactly why I have this "realistically cynical" view of RC's attitude towards PL. It's like when you bought baseball cards as a kid. You'd get that disgusting bubblegum in the pack. You got the gum anyway, but you didn't want it, so you threw it in the gutter.

PL is the gum in RC's "die cast car" pack.


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## iamweasel (Aug 14, 2000)

I dont imagine RC gives a damn about the PL line, they'll use the molds they now own (1701-A, Captain America)and make some cash off of them but I doubt they will do anything above and beyond that. If anything just reissues of their old kits.
Now if anyone wants car kits, and Lord knows they arent easy to come by, you'll be all set.


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## Mark McGovern (Apr 25, 1999)

*I guess I'm just that dense.*



iamweasel said:


> ...RC...'ll use the molds they now own (1701-A, Captain America)and make some cash off of them but I doubt they will do anything above and beyond that.


This is the sentiment of which I just can't make any sense. One the one hand those with the pessimistic bent are saying that RC2 is only out to make a buck, while at the same time suggesting that RC2 is blind to the potential profit in continuing the Polar Lights plastic model kit lines. But why RC2 is *expected* to discontinue the manufacture of plastic models, when their profitability has been so plainly alleged, sounds internally inconsistent to me. Sure RC2 wants to make money - that's why they're in business. So why *must* they decide that they can't do it by making model kits? 

I know that RC2 behaved badly with the AMT/Ertl acquisition, but PL is a whole 'nother ball game. Remember that RC2 is keeping Tom Lowe and Dave Metzner on the payroll - in iffy positions, I grant you. Still, when one company gets bought out by another, it's usually S.O.P. for the employees of the buyee to get trimmed by the buyer. So I look upon Dave's retention as a positive sign.

I don't hate anybody for differing with my views - in this country that's their right. If my disagreement is to be taken as a sign of mental inferiority, well, I've been told worse. Certainly there is a lot of polarity in public opinion these days. But while we may not get a definitive answer to our concerns about the fate of Polar Light's model-manufacturing future by November 2, as we will on another of those questions (knock on wood), an answer we must eventually get.

Meanwhile it seems to me that we're all wasting good model-building time debating stuff over which we have no control.


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