# Matching Cars to Controllers and Voltage



## Grandcheapskate

There are a number of threads concerning controllers, and matching them to the types of chassis you run. Howver, my question is a little different.

Among my cars, I have a lot of Aurora AFX and Magna-Tractions and let's keep my question focused on just those types of chassis. Of course all of them are a little different performance-wise. My track runs on a 20-22 volt Aurora power pack and I use 60 ohm controllers.

Some of the cars are very controllable, while others are very touchy; the slightest touch and they are near top speed. It seems the controller choice is good for some, but not for all.

So when this situation occurs, what do you do? Do you strive to get all the cars working almost identically (which is impossible)? Use different controllers for different cars (even within the same chassis type)? It seems to me this would be a common issue, yet I do not remember it being discussed.

What do you do when the controller/voltage is good for some of your cars, but not for others of the same type?

Thanks...Joe


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## smokinHOs

*Controllers and cars..*

Good question..

First off 20-22 volts seems a bit high. Most guys run 18 volts and 10 Amps. I use a variable supply that I can turn down for Gjets and kids to 12 volts.

Second, I had the same problem. I enjoy running everything. I run from stock tjets to Unlimited Slottech Cheetahs. You can imagine the range is much greater than within a line of magnatractions cars. 

After buying a 25, 45, 60 ohm controllers (Parma), and then a 95 ohm for tjets I realized how ridiculous the idea of carrying several controllers for my cars was. 

Solution: I bought a fully adjustable electronic controller. Yeah it wasn't cheap BUT it was less than I paid for the 4 other controllers and now it is a simple turn of a dial and EVERY car is completely controllable. It truly does make a world of difference. 

Honestly I never understood why collectors/racers will spend 100s-1000s of dollars on their collection but not invest in a single controller to handle them all. Smart investment.

I know this doesn't answer your question per se, BUT I don't know if you can dial multiple cars to a controller, but you can dial a controller to multiple cars.

-Marc and Marcus


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## smokinHOs

*Power supply...*

Forgot to mention, good clean power is the way to go. If you can afford it in the future the variable power supplies are worth the investment too..

-Marc and Marcus


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## alpink

possibly the cars that react quicker and go faster sooner have more spring tension on the brushes and/or freer gears that don't bind.
and, what smokin said about controllers.


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## slotcarman12078

I mentioned this before in a related thread, and the same applies here. There are different ohm arms, and the lower they are, the faster the chassis will react to a controller, and the fast they will go. The simplest way to tell is with an ohm meter. Dollars to donuts the on/off switch chassis have arms that ohm in the 6 volt range vs 16-18 ohms in the normal drivers. 

I'm not sure if a lower ohm controller is a correct answer, because I've found chassis with those lower ohm readings to be fast (too fast) regardless. My guess is lower voltage is the best way to address the issue.


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## smokinHOs

*Ohms..*

Slotcarman..

Right on. Armature Ohm will certainly impact the "sensitivity" of the contol on the car.

I have to say though, that prior to tossing them aside, if I can control a 2-3 Ohm inline armature in an Unlimited class car with an Electronic controller, a 6 ohm (which is the same Ohm as an SuperStock class car) is easily handled. 

I can literally run my Modifed or Unlimited car, take it off the track, and drop a stock tjet on and drive it with less than 5 secs of controller adjustment..

-marc and marcus


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## slotcarman12078

This is true, but at what volts? I have a 22 volt AFX powerpack, and 6 ohm T jets are like rockets on my little track (5' back straight, and the front is even shorter).


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## smokinHOs

*6 Ohm Tjets...*

Yeah.. got me there. 5ft straight can't handle much more than a mild Tjet. That's a really short chute. Why the 22 Volt power supply for Tjets? Not enough Amps on the 19.6 or 18 volt supplies?

-Marc and Marcus


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## alpink

and .... actually ..... even original Aurora AFX without magnetic traction assist and Magna Traction chassis were not really designed to be equal.
stock AFX have a 6 ohm arm, as JoeLed pointed out and Magna Traction have about a 14-15 ohm arm.
then there is the matter of the magnet differences which is why the Magna Traction arm ohms a little higher and the AFX ohms lower.
many times different armatures have been put in each/any of these chassis and folks that don't know the difference think they are stock that way.
getting more thorough details within the question helps diagnose and answer the question better.
all the points made by everyone answering are valid and should be considered.
being time consuming, checking the ohms of the arms and being sure that there aren't any aftermarket/latemarket magnets in any of the chassis will help come closer to the end result desired.
no one should really expect identical performance between AFX and Magna Traction chassis never-the-less between even chassis of identical design.
Apples and Oranges ya know! 
LOL


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## Hornet

An easy way to detune the fast ones is add a 1 to 3 ohm pot to the black controller station hook-up to act as a choke .
If you can find a 1 ohm pot,it's the best,but a 3 ohm works well too
You could also add the same style pot to the white controller station wire,to soften the initial voltage hit.
The downside is you need to add them to each lane.

My Difalco controllers including the cheap version,will run everthing from Fan cars to Neo drop-ins all on 24 volts or less.
An electronic controller is definitely a worthwhile investment if you run several varieties of cars in my opinion.
Rick


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## Grandcheapskate

Hi Guys,
Thanks for all the input.

To respond to Rick's comment: I have a couple Router Speed Controls I purchased from Harbor Frieght. I believe these will simulate the same effect you describe with the pots. However, changing the setting for each car is really not a solution I want to go with. If I could set it once for a given chassis class, that would be a great temporary solution. 

To all:
I previously went through all my runner AFX and Magna-Tractions and made sure all the AFX have the 6 ohm armatures and all the MTs have the 15-16 ohm arms. Yet the range of performance between (and within) the two varies greatly. Overall, I find that most of my MTs are faster than the AFX.

I guess one solid answer would be an electronic controller which, if I understand correctly, would mask the differences in performance and make all cars react (somewhat) similar.

I do know that if I spend 1-3 hours working on one car, by the time I'm done it is usually a LOT faster than when I started. But they are never equal in either speed or, more importantly for this discussion, in sensitivity. It is also interesting how some cars seem to have no middle ground - they either crawl or shoot like a rocket; although I think this condition may be friction related.

I have three series 1 JL T-Jets as runners. One of them has been a dream since I opened it, being the smoothest and most controllable pancake car I have. The other two are a little jumpy. Yet spec-wise, they are indentical.

Al makes a good point in focusing on brush tension and the gear train. But what makes one car more sensitive and reactive than another remains one of the great mysteries of the pancake chassis.

Thanks...Joe


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## Hornet

Joe,if you do try the router controls,check the ohms on them.
I used 3 ohm pots on my old track for inline resistance and choke,and i wished i'd hunted up 1 ohm pots.
The 3 ohm pots worked,but they were a little coarse on adjustment,as it took very little movement of the dial to make a big change.
For choke and inline resistance the lower the ohms the better,even if you find something adjustable down around a 1/2 ohm,it'd probably work really good as a choke.
I think Harbour Freight at one time had an adjustable 1 ohm resistor,don't know if they do anymore,but might be worth checking into


I don't know how good Army /Navy Surplus stores are anymore,but years ago they used to be a good place to find high quality pots for next to nothing money wise.
Rick


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## ParkRNDL

Grandcheapskate said:


> (snip)
> 
> Al makes a good point in focusing on brush tension and the gear train. But what makes one car more sensitive and reactive than another remains one of the great mysteries of the pancake chassis.
> 
> Thanks...Joe


I am not at home to find the quote at the moment, but in the newer edition of Greenberg's Aurora history book, there are words to the effect that even Derek Brand and his guys in R & D never completely figured out what made some cars rockets and others dogs...

--rick


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## travis1960

smokinHOs said:


> Good question..
> Solution: I bought a fully adjustable electronic controller.


Where can you get one of these?

:dude:


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## Hornet

Here's Difalco's site.

http://www.difalcoonline.com/index.html


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## alpink

professor motor makes a fairly good product for reasonable money too.
I seem to have ended up with at least one of each brand of controller for both circuit racing and drag racing.
except a newer product called Third Eye or something.


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## smalltime

Grandcheapskate said:


> There are a number of threads concerning controllers, and matching them to the types of chassis you run. Howver, my question is a little different.
> 
> Among my cars, I have a lot of Aurora AFX and Magna-Tractions and let's keep my question focused on just those types of chassis. Of course all of them are a little different performance-wise. My track runs on a 20-22 volt Aurora power pack and I use 60 ohm controllers.
> 
> Some of the cars are very controllable, while others are very touchy; the slightest touch and they are near top speed. It seems the controller choice is good for some, but not for all.
> 
> So when this situation occurs, what do you do? Do you strive to get all the cars working almost identically (which is impossible)? Use different controllers for different cars (even within the same chassis type)? It seems to me this would be a common issue, yet I do not remember it being discussed.
> 
> What do you do when the controller/voltage is good for some of your cars, but not for others of the same type?
> 
> Thanks...Joe



It all comes down to "feel".
I always tune my MTs with a 60 ohm controller, knowing that I can always go to a 100 or a 45 if the need arises. When I "tune" I do a number of things, the first being the brush settup.

For a tight twisty road course, I run stock black brushes with stock copper springs. These will be lethargic at first, but they will detune the chassis to allow you to pound the corners lap after lap.Set this up with a 60 ohm controller, and when you get to the venue, you will be able to choose the right controller for the night. If the track is sticky and you can be aggressive, then have your 45 ready, if the track gets greasy have your 100 ready.

If you can run a resistor type controller, you can simply hook up BOTH of them and pick which one you like during the warmups simply by dropping one and picking up the other.

If you can be a little MORE aggresive, you can dial in some shoe tension for a little added boost.


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## Grandcheapskate

Hornet said:


> Joe,if you do try the router controls,check the ohms on them.
> Rick


Rick,
I don't know how to check the Ohms on the speed control.

It works as follows: (1) plug the speed control into the wall socket (2) plug the power supply into the speed control (3) turn on the speed control and power supply (4) adjust the dial on the speed control to your desired setting.

So, how do I check the Ohms?

Thanks...Joe


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## Hornet

I'm not familiar with that router control Joe.
The other thing is are they actually a pot /rheostat or are they a Pulse Width Modulated controller.
I'd go digging for some info on the controllers Joe.

Hey anybody who can scratch up the capital to build Tyco compatible curves,T-jet pick-up shoe springs,and owns a couple houses,is in the postion to buy a few pots,quit being cheap ya old fart,lol:wave:
Just giving ya a Sunday morning raze Joe,he he he:wave:

Here's Ohmite's site,look for their Wire Wound Rheostats/Pots

http://www.ohmite.com/search.php?appl=Power Controls&function=results


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## slotking

http://www.onestopslotshop.com/stage3.html

the above controller is one of the best I have tried for the money.
it has different modules for it. the lowest module works for inline box stock, but a little soft for inline super stock.

but works great for pancake cars


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## Grandcheapskate

Hornet said:


> Hey anybody who can scratch up the capital to build Tyco compatible curves,T-jet pick-up shoe springs,and owns a couple houses,is in the postion to buy a few pots,quit being cheap ya old fart,lol:wave:
> Just giving ya a Sunday morning raze Joe,he he he:wave:


ROTFLMAO!!!

But let's get this straight - I only own one house. Maintaining one house is enough work. Anyone who wants the headaches of more than one is nuts.

However, everything else you said about me is true! 

I really don't know how the speed control works and nothing in the paperwork tells me anything. Even if they were the answer, putting one on each lane so each driver could "tune" their lane to their car is cost prohibitive as they are about $20 each (so $80 for a four laner). For that money, you could buy a decent power supply. Right now I place it between the power strip and the wall outlet so it effects all four lanes equally.

When I finally venture out and fill the car with gas, I'll take a ride over to Radio Shack and look for the pots. I will then let the moths out of my wallet.

Joe


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## Grandcheapskate

slotking said:


> http://www.onestopslotshop.com/stage3.html
> 
> the above controller is one of the best I have tried for the money.
> it has different modules for it. the lowest module works for inline box stock, but a little soft for inline super stock.
> 
> but works great for pancake cars


Personally, I would never want a controller with a circuit board sticking out the top. Just a personal preferance.

I have a Professor Motor electronic controller I need to break out and try.

Joe


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## Hornet

LOL,just giving ya a hard time Joe.:thumbsup::wave:

Looks like BRP has a nice controller,a little light for anything radical,but sure looks like a good investment if SS is your limit:thumbsup:.
Quite a bit cheaper then a high end Difalco that's for sure


Rick


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## Boosted-Z71

I have a Professor motor electronic 2111, and it does a good job with many cars, but anything over 21 volts and it seems to loose some of the sensitivity & the ability to adjust it.

Boosted


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## slotking

> I would never want a controller with a circuit board sticking out the top


I used to be that way, but because i race, I ended up running any controller that worked well.

I planning on getting 1, and i will add some bumpers to it just in case i drop it:drunk:


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## smokinHOs

*Professor Motor*

I wasn't going to post this but since Difalco and the others have been mentioned:

I run the Club Racer Pro (Professor Motor) and although the $129 version is plenty, I opted to add more goodies like blast relay and what not. I have two blown out with just about anything you can add and others ranging from basic to ones with a few options..

The Club Racer Pro can handle just about anything.. I still wonder why anyone is running over 22 volts, but I guess that's what readily available. I think the higher voltage is masking a need for cleaner power , 18 volts should be plenty..

-Marc and Marcus


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## Hornet

LOL,we've ran stock arms at upwards of 56 volts way back in the early days,when custom arms were nigh onto impossible to get :thumbsup:

I use 10 amp Trackmates,1 per lane,and they've been ripple filted down to 0.01 Uf,with additional caps,so they're clean.
19 power taps on a routed track
If i'm masking something,a whole lot of other guys are masking things way more then me:wave:

I'm a racer i like speed,lol:thumbsup::thumbsup:

A stock Mega G on 18 volts isn't my cup of tea,i find them a bit boring,but on 24 volts i like them,but's that's just me:wave:

Okay back to Joe's orginal post,hope you're not still wondering,Marc
Rick


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## Grandcheapskate

Taking in everything that's been said, it seems to me that the wide range of performance in a pancake chassis design would lead a basement runner (like myself) with the need for an electronic controller.

Unless you can get all your pancake chassis running within a small range of similar performance, one sized resistor controller may not be suitable. Sure you can probably get a group of cars (like your race worthy cars) running somewhat similar, but you'd still have the others which act differently. And if you want to run all your pancake cars, you need a controller which makes each one driveable and fun. Sounds like the only solution is an electronic controller.

Either that, or a variable resistor at each driver location to dial in the best voltage for your particular car/controller combination.

Thanks...Joe


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## Hornet

Joe have you gave any thought to building yourself a set of voltage regulators.
You could build 4 sets for well under 10 bucks a lane,figure on maybe 30 to 35 dollars for 4.

This way down the road if you do step up your power supply,you'll be all set.

I go against the grain,i'm a firm believer in giving guys the option to set the individual lane voltage where they feel comfortable:thumbsup:
Rick


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## Boosted-Z71

smokinHOs said:


> I think the higher voltage is masking a need for cleaner power , 18 volts should be plenty..
> 
> -Marc and Marcus


It does not matter if it is "clean" power or not, anything much over 21 volts from my HP lab grade 10 amp supply and the controller will lose some of its adjust ability & it acts the same on a wall wart. I thought that was important for someone to know, especially if they are using a wall type transformer without some means to lower the voltage, and considering this controller. While it is a great controller, I think they would be disappointed if they run over 21 volts and just wanted to make sure that was mentioned. 

We commonly run the JL "fray stlye" t-jet chassis on 21 to 22 volts, and they fly, and yes they do occasionally burn up, but the racin is good.

Boosted


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## Grandcheapskate

Hornet said:


> Joe have you gave any thought to building yourself a set of voltage regulators.
> You could build 4 sets for well under 10 bucks a lane,figure on maybe 30 to 35 dollars for 4.
> 
> This way down the road if you do step up your power supply,you'll be all set.
> 
> I go against the grain,i'm a firm believer in giving guys the option to set the individual lane voltage where they feel comfortable:thumbsup:
> Rick


Hey Rick,
I have only a passing knowledge of electricity, enough to do the basics like wiring, etc. But not enough to know about things like voltage regulators. Would these basically vary the voltage going to each driver station?

As to the voltage I am using, these are the standard power packs Aurora supplied (and must have thought necessary) with their T-Jet race sets. While the 20 volts is too high for some cars, it is needed for others. All my cars are stock with nothing more exotic than stock magnet cars.

I have never had a car burn out from 20 volts. After all, the car only sees the full voltage if you open the controller all the way, which happens only briefly around my short track. I could have a 100 volt power source and if I never open the controller more than 10%, the car would never know. Right or wrong?

Thanks...Joe


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## Hornet

LOL,you have a better grasp on electricity then alot of us do.

The regulators are actually pretty simple to fab-up Joe.
The wiring diagram,makes it look harder then it is.

They would give you the option of dialing each lane to match the car.
The big benefit is,if you have anybody new over,trying out slotcars for the first time,you can turn things down,till they start to become comfortable driving a car.

You do lose some voltage through the regulators,roughly 1 to 1.5 volts will be lost.

Theoretically your cars will last longer if you do use a voltage regulator set-up.
The wiring circuit for the regulators is very well filtered,so the regulators don't see any ripple, that also turns into a big benefit for your cars too

I think depending on how long the car gets to open up,is the deciding factor on the voltage through the resistor.

Where's AFX 2 when you need him,lol.

Don't quote me on this,but i think if the load on the car goes down,the voltage through the resistor will increase.
Say if you had a 100 ft straight,i think the voltage to the car will be higher at the top-end of the straight then at the bottom end,even if the resistor setting doesn't change through the run.
As the load on the car goes down,there's less load through the resistor,so it'll allow more voltage through itself.
The electrical load through a DC motor decreases the higher it rev's,so i'm thinking with less load on the resistor,it'll pass more voltage,even though the trigger setting is still the same
Like i said don't quote me on that theory,i'm guessing,lol:thumbsup::wave:
Rick


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## Grandcheapskate

Hornet said:


> An easy way to detune the fast ones is add a 1 to 3 ohm pot to the black controller station hook-up to act as a choke .
> If you can find a 1 ohm pot,it's the best,but a 3 ohm works well too
> You could also add the same style pot to the white controller station wire,to soften the initial voltage hit.
> The downside is you need to add them to each lane.
> 
> Rick


Rick,
I stopped in a Radio Shack today just to check on the pots (which I assume is short for potentiometer?). The lowest rated one I saw was 1K ohms. Was that what you meant above, or did you really mean 1 Ohm?

And please....let's not get into electrical theory again. I start getting headaches and flashbacks to EE classes in college - three phase power, imaginary numbers...make it stop. 

Joe


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## alpink

a controller is a voltage regulator.


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## Hornet

1 ohm potentiometers are hard to find Joe,but you can usually find 3 ohm pots.
You'd want one rated no less then 3 Watts, i don't know if Radio Shack carries such an animal.
A decent pot will rock your tree for money,a good one from somebody like Ohmite is gonna run you 20 bucks or more.
Wizzard sells a 3 ohm Ohmite pot for i think $22.00.

If you're trying to use the track /controller to be the final equalizer between cars,i don't know if they'res going to be a cheap way to get the results you want Joe.
Rick


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## Grandcheapskate

Hornet said:


> 1 If you're trying to use the track /controller to be the final equalizer between cars,i don't know if they'res going to be a cheap way to get the results you want Joe.
> Rick


Hi Rick,
Actually, we probably wavered from my original question (and with some useful info). My question was what do you do if the controller you use is good for some of your cars, but not for others of the same chassis type? It seems the simple answer is an electronic controller.

For example, let's say you have 10 Aurora AFX cars all with the same parts and all have been cleaned and tuned to the best of your ability. Some run great with your exisiting controller, others are way too sluggish and some are too jumpy. Is there a (easy, inexpensive) solution which you guys have discovered while still using a resistor controller, or is a single resistor controller no good for this situation?

Thanks...Joe


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## Hornet

Joe you could try adding a 100 ohm pot in parallel with the existing resistor in the controller.
It'll let you sorta fine tune a resistor controller somewhat.
I used to have a 1/2 dozen Parma's all set up with either extra resistors or pots in the handle,they did do the job,but i had way more time and money into them then it was worth.
By the time you epoxy/sand / add an extra resistor and fine tune a Parma ,you've got a good hour or more into each controller.
If you do that to a 1/2 dozen resistor controllers,the electronic controller is cheaper,even if you value your time at nothing,like me,lol.

Not meaning to give ya a hard time,but what the heck are you doing with a Professor Motor controller,and not using it,lol
Do we have to send Vinny and Gweeno over to help you open the box,he he he:wave:
I think the PM controller will be a big improvement for you

The controller Mike listed from Jerry at BRP,is probably one of the better buys on the market right now,if you are looking at another electronic controller.
Rick


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## slotking

what nice with teh stage iii
if the circuit board breaks, it still works (not sure at what ohms)


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## rbrunne1

Joe,

Check out these simple & inexpensive voltage adjusters: http://www.philippejmarchand.com/Slots/page21/page34/page58/page58.html

You can get all the diodes you need on eBay for $1.66: http://www.ebay.com/itm/100PCS-1A-5...169?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e6fc96bb9

4-Rotary switches are $7.99: http://www.ebay.com/itm/4pcs-1-Pole...748?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19ce6c4dfc

Each diode is a 0.7V drop, so 11 diodes give you a total drop of 7.7V.

I've been using a Slot.It electronic controller (available from Professor Motor - ): http://www.professormotor.com/product-p/siscp01a.htm

It's $115 here: http://www.powerslotcars.com/Slot-it-SCP01a-SCP-1-analog-Controller-p/scp01a.htm

Bob B.
Clifton Park, NY


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## Hornet

Good links Bob,brings back memories of modifying the old Omni diode dropping controller modules

The downside of a Diode drop is the life expectancy of the diode.
If one lets go,the system is basically dead.
But Bob's right they're cheap to build,and easy to get,drop the switch and string them together,they get even cheaper.
Radio Shack carries 3 and 6 amp diodes,not quite as cheap,but usually available at your local Shack.
Rick


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## rbrunne1

Joe - Here's another link that explains how to make your Parma controller adjustable.

http://home.comcast.net/~medanic/Tech-Parma.htm

Bob B.
Clifton Park, NY


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