# RC Racing Is All Wrong



## NHRCRACER (Oct 23, 2002)

If you race, don't get all mad before reading and if you don't race, take what I say with a grain of salt because every club and track is different. The opinions expressed in this article are mine and only mine--and as my wife will tell you, my opinion isn't worth all that much.

Anyway, I'm hoping to start some discussion around the RC community.

Please check out this article on why I think RC racing is all wrong.


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## mr_meat68 (Jan 30, 2005)

you should write another article on how to fix it...


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## Bob Imbrigotta (Sep 8, 2008)

Too much closed mindness, everyone needs their 3 heats and a main. 6 hours at the track for minimal track/race time does get old. Perhaps this thread will offer suggestions on how to get some fresh excitement back into the hobby. I keep saying it, the endurace races are the best!!


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## mr_meat68 (Jan 30, 2005)

if you think you're gonna spend less than 6 hours at a track youre nuts... unless you would run a 2 hour race with 8 or more guys at a time. but what do ya do if 100 people show up? there still gotta be a way to determine 1st, 2nd, 3rd place, etc... you have to have multiple heats, races... then you're back to 6+ hours of a race day or more depending on the amount of people that show up.

you been to a drag race lately? nascar uses and entire day for qualifying, and they run 3 laps a piece? sure they race 30 cars at a time but there track sizes allow it plus if there wasnt a lot of give and take there would be a lot of dead people.


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## swtour (Oct 8, 2001)

NHRCRACER - 

I love it - it SOOOOOOOOO is dead on on how our races run, and HAVE RUN for the 27 years I've been racing.

I remember when I wanted to be "competitive" and the guy who I was teamed up with was just as bad..and we'd show up at a track (150 miles away) @ 3:30 - 4:00 AM, when the GATES wouldn't even open until 6:00 or 6:30, just because WE WANTED TO BE THE FIRST GUYS THROUGH THE GATE to get "OUR" Pit Spot.

The Track wouldn't be open for Practice until 8:00, so we'd spend an hour setting up, then an hour charging and making sure the HOURS we spent on the car at HOME was perfect.

In those days (this was a traveling oval series) we'd have 180 entries @ a Series Race - Racing STARTED around 9:30 (always the 1/2 hour late...) and would finish up around 5:30 - 6:00, with EACH heat race being packed FULL w/ 10 cars, and virtually BAM BAM BAM right through the show. Then the 3 - 3 1/2 hour drive home...work on the cars until the NEXT RACE the following month.

I remember making the comment once... DAMN, I spend 100's of HOURS working on this thing, talking about this thing, crunching numbers for this thing...ALL for 16 MINUTES of Racing a month, and 12 of those minutes DON'T COUNT!

Yet - I'm still HERE 27 years later - and I'm the guy who Starts the Show late now, and Toes The Line on so many of the OLD WAYS.... (But I LOVE the races where I can be creative w/ the format, and change things up - to me, it adds so much more Character to an event) 

Great Article


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## NHRCRACER (Oct 23, 2002)

swtour said:


> NHRCRACER -
> 
> I love it - it SOOOOOOOOO is dead on on how our races run, and HAVE RUN for the 27 years I've been racing.
> 
> ...


Thanks! I too love racing, so I'm glad--really glad--when someone sees that I'm not "hating" on racing. If I didn't like racing, I simply wouldn't race. If I didn't love racing, I wouldn't bother trying to get a conversation going about how I believe we can make it better.


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## racin17 (Sep 24, 2008)

the main thing is keeping the show rolling...no more than 2 mins between heats 10-20 between rounds and a good anouncer helps. i ran in indy last april we raced 14-16 heats 4 rounds started at 10am was done by 6 pm WITH 30 mins between the first two rounds and almost an hour between the third and fourth rounds, and the announcer kept things interesting!!!!!


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## Zerodefect (Jul 28, 2009)

Good article. And I agree with Bob. 

If I'm going to spend all day at the track then I want more than 10 minutes of racing. 10 minutes of racing for every 12 hours of time onsite is really weak. I don't care about quals.

The regular qual, qual, qual, short race. (where I'll just get hacked negating any advantage I gained in quals) Is not much fun. Kinda boreing. I've packed up my gear for this year. I'm literally bored of RC. Maybe by next summer I'll be more excited about RC again. If I'm going to drop $100 every Saturday running two classes, It's not worth it if I'm not feeling completely into it.

I'm only going to hit 4 races total this year. In Tallahassee, Dothan, and Ocala. (If I don't get mugged in Ocala and dumped in Tampa Bay)

So far I've seen a few tricks they're trying down there to liven things up. They also have a really neat combination where 1/8th E and N race together really well and both sides have fun.

Some of the (good) things I noticed about racing down there:

1.) One track tried getting rid of the boring quals and it was huge. They do this 3 or 4 times a year. 

Instead of spending all darn day in quals, which just get wasted in the pileup crash in turn 1 of the main anyway, they run 3 short races and one long race. The worst race of the day gets dropped and the computer totals everything up for an overall winner in each class.

Something like three 8 minute races and a 30-60 minute final race. Obviously the E cars will not finish the final. And that becomes the race that gets dropped by the computer for them. It sounds unfair, but since the E cars are still getting 3 times the racing they normally would, they don't seem to mind. A few E cars try to pit.

This way you have at least 3 chances to win a race, and 3 chances to lock in a good place in the overall. The nitro guys still get their long "real" race with pitting, and the E guys don't have to be split from the guys they want to race against. And the"bashers" that can't race clean learn a lesson in the longer race about keeping a car in one piece to finish. 

1st race everyone just lines up behind the start line any way they want to. Following races are gridded by the finishing order of the previous race, or lap time, or overall standing.......it deosn't really matter pick one.

Qualifying is useless on a slick track where anything can happen on the first lap of the main. If you screw up just once in the main, all that time in qualifying is wasted. If we just race and skip quals alltogether, then you can screw up, brush it off, and try again next race. Way better and more fun for newbs and intermediate racers like myself.

2.) They spread the cars out further on the grid for the mains for a cleaner start. Obviously at the big races or prize races the go back to tighter ROAR/IFMAR style grid spacing.

3.) Less classes. Everyone races 1/8th buggy and truggy down there. E & N are together still. Sometimes a SCT class as well. That's nice becuase too many classes really dilludes the racing. I want to race against everyone that showed up, not just a fraction of the racers. Especially important if less people are racing. 1/8th works better on weather torn tracks anyways.

It's a bummer when everyone you want to race against signs into a different class. Stock and mod don't need split up _except_ for busy 1/10th oriented tracks.

4.) Its way easier to find a competant pit guy down there. Especially when 1/8th buggy allmost allways has a B main, sometimes C.

5.) Faster, more flowing tracks. Takes away the advantage the E cars have over N. And is alot more fun to drive on. Sweeping turns. A track down there allmost exactly the same size as Akrons outdoor track had well over 45 mph straight speeds. A fast banked turn onto the straight and off the straight allows such speeds.

Generally more of a longer run up between jumps. You have to hit them at the right speed, but full throttle isn't really ever needed to clear anything. The biggest jump on the track only required half throttle on the run up from my car.

Large landing ramps are nice.

6.) Tennis court clay rules for racing. Especially if it's spongey and dark from rain the day before. It also allows more lines on the track for cleaner racing. Easier on cars, but harder on chassis plates. Not much difference with tires.

7.) I could wear my cape.
8.) One track is on Tom Brown Park's property, no overhead cost, nicest city park in the US. 30miles+ of real mountain bike trails complete with real dinosaurs in the water. But they have to deal with Nimby park people sometimes. The other is at a paintball facility with golf and stuff up front, but the weather is allways hot in Dothan.

9.) Pretty much mod only. No real rules regarding engine/motor size etc. It just deosn't matter. If you don't like someones advantge from a new engine/ESC.....pony up. Not like it really matters. 

Pretty laid back atmosphere. Since I wasn't about to win anyways... Myself and a couple others dropped truggy fuel tanks in our buggies. Being sneaky like that up here that would cause an epic poo storm, radios thrown from stands in anger, marshals trying to measure tanks, chest bumping, dirt kicking, someone dropping thier ice cream cone, and something about a midget on a tricycle.


10.) The tracks surface and shape helps keep tire wars at bay. Saw a huge selection of tires down there that were competitive. No constant need for custom built tires, or other expensive wasteful bull like buggy grip etc.

11.) No fake E pit stops. The E cars are actually at a hair disadvantage cause they don't do well in the 4th race. But are on equal terms for the shorter 3 races. They just have to make the most of it.

Besides, if they do try the long forth race, their pit is way longer than a N cars.

12.) They start earlier to squeeze everything in. First race is at 9am on the dot.



The bad thing about down there is that some racers really drop a ton of $$$ into thier cars. Not unusual to see $400+ mills in the N cars. Trailers are pretty much normal. Some bring a backup car for each class they enter. And it rains even more often than Ohio. Just not as long. 

Different down there for sure, can't wait to get back down there next month. 

But the most enteresting part.......they have a better turnout in an area with far less work and a far weaker economy than Ohio. I don't think it's the economy keeping folks from racing in Ohio.


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## Bob Imbrigotta (Sep 8, 2008)

Good to hear from you Jason, so are you still in Ohio and working in Florida?


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## Zerodefect (Jul 28, 2009)

Thanks, I'm still in Ohio. Ashland to be exact.

I had a "business" trip to Florida, and I'll probally swing by there again in the fall.


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## ScottH (Nov 24, 2005)

Ding Ding Ding WE have a winner!

That is only one of the things I hate about electric racing. Other that the "(Insert product here) of the week" and the constant inconsistency of the rules.

That is why I now race either Nitro Pan, which has only had a small following and now Quarter Scale. We do race "qualifiers" which are heats but we also singel car qualify. Not only that but our features run for 150-300 laps.

With quarter scale cars there is definately more racing for your dollar.

Batteries are for controls, FUEL is for racing!


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## Bob Imbrigotta (Sep 8, 2008)

Well Jason, I finally got a chance to read your post in it's entirety, and as usual it was quite entertaining and informative. At least you got a chance to try a different format and it sounds like it was a blast. To reaffirm my comment on the closedmindness of racing in this area, there were 244 views and 10 replies. Not surprised numbers are waning, race days in my opinion are getting as stale as this muggy night time air.


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## snwchris (Dec 1, 2009)

Alot of races have somewhat the same setup and style. Superbike racing, has quals/heats on saturday and then mains on sunday for their race weekend. Same thing with dirt oval, they run 2 or 3 heats (quals) and then run the feature. 

I've been to a couple places where they do 2quals and a main, but each race is heads-up start. To me I run each qualifier as a race looking to finish in the top 3. I've also seen where some do Qual Points for the mains, so each qual is exactly that a real race since your looking for points based on how you finish.

I've also seen where each round they invert the starting grid as well. It seems no matter how you slice it or call it, it's still Quals & Mains...


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## solographix (Apr 28, 2009)

I know this is not the norm, but it is how our track runs and they are on their 24th year. The facility has a 300+ ft runline dirt oval that contains an off-road track in the center. We run 1 heat and a main, but there is about 15 classes pretty evenly split among oval and off-road. Most of the people who attend run multiple classes to get their fix. We typicall get around 160 entries (not people, but cars entered to race). The major bonus to so many classes is that if anyone shows up we can fit their car into a class that best suits what they have and they get to race and have a good time.

On any given race day I run 5-6 classes, so in a day I get almost 60 minutes of track time all for $32 if I run the 6 classes. On a race day racing starts at 11am and we finish normally around 6:30. Yes its a long day, but I got 60 minutes of racing!

Our Classes:

Novice Oval - pretty much has become a spec slash class at this point but anything is allowed within reason.
Slash Spec Oval
EDM
SPRINT 
1/8 Latemodel Nitro
1/8 Latemodel Electric
Slash Spec Off-Road
2WD Mod Shortcourse
4WD Mod Shortcourse
2WD Buggy
4WD Buggy
2WD Truck
1/8 Buggy Nitro
1/8 Buggy Electric
1/8 Truggy Mixed
1/10 Truggy

Our club has been described as a giant picnic where some racing happens to occur. We have a grill onsite with food for sale and for the most part everyone still shows up to have a good time.


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## racin17 (Sep 24, 2008)

another reason why people in general have a hard time with oval racing is our whole way of life has changed!!!!! go gogogogo don't stop to enjoy once in a while got to have it all right now and move on.... as long as the show moves at a resonable pace i am ok with it....there is alot of bench racing as bs'n to do in between!!!!


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## sdtech58 (Aug 13, 2008)

I love RC racing, when my work schedule and family time allows. I had been thinking about it after I read the RCCA blog, and came up with something very similar to what zerodefect described above.

1st Round - Make races for each class random, or in the order that the entries were taken. I assume 10 cars makes a full heat. First place gets 100 points + 5 for win bonus, 2nd place gets 90 and so on. Probably 10 minute races for nitro??

2nd and 3rd Round - Seed races based on points gained in previous round(s). Again, 10 minute races for nitro and points system the same.

Final Round - Seed finals based on total points. 20 Minutes. Final race point values go up by 50% and 10 point win bonus in each race. First place = 150 points + 10 bonus, 2nd place = 135 points, etc. "Winner" for the day is most total points scored.

This gives me 50 minutes of "real" racing, vs. 18 minutes against the clock and a 10 minutes of "real" racing when I qualify in the "C". Not even close to perfect, but a way to get everyone more track time.

Just a thought. Nothing beats the rush of racing other drivers. Racing the clock is not nearly as much fun, IMHO.


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## ScottH (Nov 24, 2005)

racin17 said:


> another reason why people in general have a hard time with oval racing is our whole way of life has changed!!!!! go gogogogo don't stop to enjoy once in a while got to have it all right now and move on.... as long as the show moves at a resonable pace i am ok with it....there is alot of bench racing as bs'n to do in between!!!!


Have you been to our track? 

We have one guy that when he runs the races he is in such a hurry get done and go home I just do not understand it. When I show up for a race, I am there for the day and like you said as long as things are moving, heck let's enjoy it. We are there to ENJOY ourselves and have fun. I know that "fun" word is thrown around a lot but really, isn't that why we do this? We ENJOY it. Why come to a race just to be all stressed out all day? Heck I do this to get away from the everyday stress of life not to add to it.

We have added somwthing to our race program that has been great. It is a "5 minute quiet time" between each heat. The track is closed, no running, no running engines, nothing. This allows the racers in the previous heat to get their cars, take tire temps (we run Quater Scale), check the car and take a breath before having to corner marshall. (No they are not on the track, they are on pit road away from the cars btw. This also allows the computer operator and race director time to take a breath and be sure all is set up properly for the next heat, print out the results and post them.

Remember, without the track there will be no racers and without the racers there will be no track.


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## racin17 (Sep 24, 2008)

Amen!!!!


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