# Track Timer 2000 issues



## AcesFull

I've done a search already and didn't find much, so my question is: has anyone had issues with track timer 2000? I purchased the whole system from Greg Braun and am having multiple issues. Forgive me, I'm not a computer guy, just mechanical and electrical. I purchased with the joystick adapter only to find out I don't have one on the pc i'm using, so I gought the adapter for usb. Problem 1: I cannot configure to a 2 axis-4 button gamepad - I get an error saying "Missing gameport or gameport drivers - your gameport or gameport drivers are not properly configured - please consult the device manager" Problem 2: Even configured as a 4 axis-4 cutton joystick (default), I only get lanes 1,2 and 3 to register, within the joystick calibration menu and with the Lap Timer 2000 software. Problem 3: When running the software in any mode, with only 3 lanes operable, it misses many counts as well as just flat out stops counting altogether after 100 or so laps, all lanes combined. Any experience out there with these that might be of assistance is greatly appreciated. Heck and advise with this system is appreciated.


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## SwamperGene

Prob. 1: Does the USB adapter have a mode switch? What brand/model is the adapter? 

No sense going to the next steps 'til you're sure this is right.


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## brownie374

Dont feel bad I have a complete brand new trackmate that I cannot get to work right.The place I race at on friday night has it and it works PERFECT!


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## AcesFull

SwamperGene said:


> Prob. 1: Does the USB adapter have a mode switch? What brand/model is the adapter?
> 
> No sense going to the next steps 'til you're sure this is right.


Yes, and i set it to mode 3 - "use mode 3 if the controllers game devices selection is "2-4 axis, 4 buttons" in the game software. By selecting this mode, you have upgraded your controller to a usb game controller" - per the instructions given in the manual for the usb gameport adapter Manhattan model# 168199. Is this correct?


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## SwamperGene

Yes, that's the correct setting (same brand riderz has).

Also, what version windows?

Just got one more question before I say I think the IR setup is the culprit...and this is for RiderZ: Did fixing the lights also fix the problem of the 'puter coughing up the USB adapter?


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## AcesFull

SwamperGene said:


> Yes, that's the correct setting (same brand riderz has).
> 
> Also, what version windows?
> 
> Just got one more question before I say I think the IR setup is the culprit...and this is for RiderZ: Did fixing the lights also fix the problem of the 'puter coughing up the USB adapter?


Windows XP is on this computer. It could be the IR setup for the issue with the one lane not working, but it would have to be something else to just stop counting laps. Once it stops counting, I go to the devise manager and it states it ok, yet when I check the inouts in the calibration menu, none register any longer. Highly unlikely to be hardware related for that one, but I've been wrong before. Might there be a driver I could load for XP for joysticks?


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## SwamperGene

This is the same exact problem riderz was having, let's see if fixing the IR setup cured it. 

PC hardware, particularly USB adapters, can be pretty strange with this stuff. It's expecting to "see" certain things, ie a real joystick in this case. If something isn't right, it will act up. I'm thinking that what's happening is incorrect IR setup is sorta acting like someone pushing all the gamepad buttons a zillion times a second.


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## AcesFull

SwamperGene said:


> This is the same exact problem riderz was having, let's see if fixing the IR setup cured it.
> 
> PC hardware, particularly USB adapters, can be pretty strange with this stuff. It's expecting to "see" certain things, ie a real joystick in this case. If something isn't right, it will act up. I'm thinking that what's happening is incorrect IR setup is sorta acting like someone pushing all the gamepad buttons a zillion times a second.


I do not believe it's the IR setup itself but has to do with the adapter in some way, like you mentioned, what it thinks it's suppose to see. I can run a bunch of laps, then it stops counting out of the blue. I go unplug the usb cable for a second, then back in and wala, it works again. It will do this consistantly. The adapter or a driver issue because I cannot even configure as a 2 axis 4 button. Also when I run the calibration, the crosshair is extremely unstable with zero input. maybe I should just get the printer port adapter.


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## SwamperGene

lol like I said We will have to see...RiderZ is holding all the cards at this point, he has the same adapter and was having the same problem with his PC puking it up. The fact that he hasn't brought it up since installing the RS setup tells me it most likely cured it, but maybe not.

Windows is looking for a gamepad with at least one joystick (the resistors Greg installs) and four "open" buttons (the sensors). If the sensors are low, it will appear as either 4 closed buttons or four..."unknown things", either way not what the PC is expecting to find on the port, can't calibrate buttons it can't see. This is why I think the fault lies in the IR setup and not the PC.


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## valongi

It just seems unnatural- trying to marry a slot car track up to a PC. Toys of yesteryear meets supertechnology of today. Paging Bill Gates to aisle 5, we have a compatibility issue! Lol.


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## Scafremon

For what it's worth:

During the year plus I have been at HT, I don't recall anyone having trouble getting Lap Timer to work when they used a parallel printer port, save for easy troubleshooting issues, such as software settings, wrong sensors/reeds, or mis-wiring.

This usb adaptor thing seems to be a lot of trouble.


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## pat4gis

*Laptimer 2000- not working all the time...*

I have Lap Timer 2000, with the Radio Shack USB joystick adapter. I have it set to "Joystick A" (the choices are 1-Gamepad, 2-Joystick-A, 3-Joystick B, and 4-Wheel. It works most of the time, but it always misses laps, particulary with fast cars. I just checked my IR lamps with a video camera that has "nightshot" capability, and it shows 4 lamps hitting the holes with the photo sensors. It seems to cast about a 1 inch circle on the track from where I have it. Its pretty ugly wiring set up, but it seems to be wired in correctly since it works for the most part. Seems to miss less on tjets, but it still misses sometimes. I have it wired to a tablet PC, and I have heard that laptops are not the best laptimer choice for some reason (bus speed not as fast as a desktop PC or something like that). I have done some work since these photos were taken, but have a look.
"deleted 6/2011 - url was dead"


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## SwamperGene

The fact that the lights are "lit" is not enough, the critical thing is the intensity.


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## AcesFull

RiderZ where ya at?


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## SwamperGene

He answered my PM...said it seemed to take care of the USB problem.

Again this was the exact same setup as yours - the Manhattan Adapter, WinXP, and the IR sensors Greg sells.


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## noddaz

*Nice track Pat!! (slight shift of topic...)*

Nice track set up you have there Pat...
What size is the table?

Scott


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## AcesFull

SwamperGene said:


> He answered my PM...said it seemed to take care of the USB problem.
> 
> Again this was the exact same setup as yours - the Manhattan Adapter, WinXP, and the IR sensors Greg sells.


What was it that RiderZ did with the IR setup? Is it getting the matched set you mentioned to me?


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## SwamperGene

Yes. Still sounds like he may need to tweak it a little.



> Hey Gene-It seems to have stopped the USB problem.Although i have had a few missed lap counts still.Not as many.


This could be as simple as a setting in the program, or recalibrating the setup. Not sure how guys are doing it, but when calibrating the "buttons" , I'd use an actual car (preferably a faster one) crossing the sensors.


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## pat4gis

noddaz said:


> Nice track set up you have there Pat...
> What size is the table?
> 
> Scott


 Thanks
Its approx 10'x5'. I have been trying to work on smoothing the joints (again...) with vinyl spackling compound, but its going to take a while, and your cant turn laps when your in the middle of construction. Its a bit twisty for magnet cars, at least the ones I have, G3's with couple w/Polymer magnets, a couple with ceramic, never seem to have 4 of the same setup. But I can get a few laps in before launching one. I have some tjets, JL's, and AW Magnets.


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## AcesFull

SwamperGene said:


> Yes. Still sounds like he may need to tweak it a little.
> 
> 
> 
> This could be as simple as a setting in the program, or recalibrating the setup. Not sure how guys are doing it, but when calibrating the "buttons" , I'd use an actual car (preferably a faster one) crossing the sensors.


Unfortunately, I cannot even configure it to a 2 axis 4 button gamepad, as G. Braun's manual states to do. I get a driver error. I can only configure as a 2 axis 4 button joystick. The difference between a gamepad and joystick...I have no idea.


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## SwamperGene

AcesFull said:


> Unfortunately, I cannot even configure it to a 2 axis 4 button gamepad.............I can only configure as a 2 axis 4 button joystick.


Same thing to Windows, you're ok there.


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## AcesFull

SwamperGene said:


> Same thing to Windows, you're ok there.


Thanks, that's good to know. 
Question: Do you think I could write a lap timing software with Microsoft's Visual Basic? I have the programming guide, and a whie back I built a robot using a similar platform, but I do not know if this program has the capability. I'de rather develope my own system, taylored to my liking.


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## SwamperGene

Absolutely, I did a single-lane counter with heat time (power off) control in VB2005 Express that worked with keyboard input, was gonna take it further but there's just so much good stuff out there (including LT2000) already that I couldn't justify the time. IO is a bit tricky to implement in VB but these days there are lots of free or cheap controls available.


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## pat4gis

SwamperGene said:


> The fact that the lights are "lit" is not enough, the critical thing is the intensity.


 I am using the 
RS 276-143 High-Output 5mm Infrared LED.
RS 470 OHM 1/2 W
13 V 650 mA wall wart.
Wired in parallel as shown on 
http://www.hoslotcarracing.com/LapCounter.html


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## AcesFull

SwamperGene said:


> Absolutely, I did a single-lane counter with heat time (power off) control in VB2005 Express that worked with keyboard input, was gonna take it further but there's just so much good stuff out there (including LT2000) already that I couldn't justify the time. IO is a bit tricky to implement in VB but these days there are lots of free or cheap controls available.


Time, it's always about time isn't it. Even being married, having 4 kids and possibly a fifth on the way and working 60+ hrs a week I think I'll have some extra time. I do not sleep much. Luckily for me, I am surrounded with mechanical, electrical and software engineers daily, that are always willing to assist me with my "little projects". I'm going to give it a go and see what happens. I've got nothing to lose...but time.


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## RiderZ

*LT Issues!*

Hey guys-i just now found this thread.I ended up changing out the IR emitters & sensors from RadioShack with there "matched" set.It definately works a whole lot better but i still get missed lap counts with the "fast" cars such as my Wizzards.I have'nt had much time here lately to see if i can run the system for long periods of time to see if it dumps the USB connection.Tonight i'll go down and run a long session to see if it act's up.On my USB adaptor i use it in Mode1.That is a 2 axis 4 button joystick setting.


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## RiderZ

*!!!*

No go.After about an hour & a half of running it missed a ton of lap counts.It only lost USB connection once.I have had it with this "POS" system and will remove it from my layout tomarrow!!! I will try to contact Mr. Braun and get my money back.Good luck with your system AcesFull.


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## pat4gis

*Laptime 2000 - need some details*

I am having same issues. Havent got the matched IR emitters & sensors, it would be nice to just get the emitters that match the sensors that are currently glued, screwed and spackled under my timing track, any idea what the ones are that come from Greg Braun? They look much smaller than the matched set you got.

Anyone...
Also do I need 4 resistors at 470 OHM 1/2 watt? 
How does the 13 V 650mA power (my test meter shows 16.5 V) figure into the calculation? 
It sounds like I need a brighter light from the LED's than I am getting, so do I drop in lower resistors, or put in a single one?

Could I put in a 22 V Tomy Wall Wart with the existing resistors to get them brighter, or will they fry with that much, again, what about the amps that the wall wart puts out, where does that go in the calculation?

Phone wire is tough to solder, and I dont have this dialed in yet, what do people use for prototyping, or allowing for quick replacement of burned out parts? I used some mini wire nuts/caps, (pic in my gallery) and also used some IC sockets with all the pins soldered across on the bottom of the circuit board so I can plug stuff into the sockets for connectivity, but now I am seeing corrosion in the top where I have plugged in the resistors and LED'.s The meter shows that I get 1.25v after the current goes through the resistor.


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## pat4gis

RiderZ said:


> No go.After about an hour & a half of running it missed a ton of lap counts.It only lost USB connection once.I have had it with this "POS" system and will remove it from my layout tomarrow!!! I will try to contact Mr. Braun and get my money back.Good luck with your system AcesFull.


 If you can, you might try the full Desktop PC to see if the laptop is the culprit. I am using a tablet PC and I am starting to get suspicious that it just can't keep up with the signal.


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## Scafremon

With all the troubleshooting you guys are having to do with these IR set-ups, why not try reed switches?

Just curious.


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## AcesFull

pat4gis said:


> If you can, you might try the full Desktop PC to see if the laptop is the culprit. I am using a tablet PC and I am starting to get suspicious that it just can't keep up with the signal.


I use a desktop and have had no luck. I think it's the gameport/usb thing so I think I'm going to get the printer port or serial port adapter and give it one last shot.


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## pat4gis

My tablet PC doesnt have serial or parallel, which would be nice, 'cause then you can add the power relay to start and stop the power with a race. I hate to buy more stuff when I am not sure of the ROI.

I have an old Dell M200 that has W98, but it won't run USB w/o changing IRQ settings used by network card. And it takes about 6 minutes to boot up.


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## SwamperGene

These things look rather interesting.

Claim to offer native LPT port functionality. With a parallel interface, you get the added bonus of being able to add a power control relay to allow the software to control track power.

RiderZ if you're gonna bust it up, try busting the legs of the bridge so the Emitters are about 2.75" above the sensors, I've always felt that bridge was too high to begin with myself. And again to be sure, are you calibrating it with the fastest cars?


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## AcesFull

Scafremon said:


> With all the troubleshooting you guys are having to do with these IR set-ups, why not try reed switches?
> 
> Just curious.


Actually, I'm lloking into some industrial automation sensors that I have access to. Both fiber optic and magnetic with both analog and digital outputs. I'll let you know how it goes.


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## SwamperGene

Aces if you are using a desktop that has no LPT port, you should be able to throw an add-on LPT card into it. By the way you describe work, sounds like maybe someone could cough up an old pull, LPT cards are real common in business PC's.


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## Scafremon

pat4gis said:


> I have an old Dell M200 that has W98, but it won't run USB w/o changing IRQ settings used by network card. And it takes about 6 minutes to boot up.


Perfect slot car computer! :thumbsup:


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## SwamperGene

Scafremon said:


> Perfect slot car computer! :thumbsup:


I agree, take out the net card (likely the biggest contributor to the long boot time), throw in a fresh minimal install of Win98 and LT2000 only, hack up an old printer cable and you're on your way.


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## Scafremon

AcesFull said:


> Actually, I'm lloking into some industrial automation sensors that I have access to.


 But...but.....you just need an parallel port, and $8 worth of reed switches, and you are off this thread, and back to your track build thread, which is really where you want to be. :thumbsup: 

And SwamperGene - what's up? I mean, when I had a brief flirt with IR issues, you steered me towards the light...er...magnets. It was like:

Scaf: "I am having trouble with my RS IR's..."
Gene: "The solution is Reed switches"
Scaf: "Counting laps now - thanks Gene!"

I say save a 386 from a landfill, and you will be counting laps in no time. Trying to get your tablet PC or desktop-replacement-laptop working to count tics on a slot car track, and the deck is (apparently) stacked against you.


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## AcesFull

SwamperGene said:


> Aces if you are using a desktop that has no LPT port, you should be able to throw an add-on LPT card into it. By the way you describe work, sounds like maybe someone could cough up an old pull, LPT cards are real common in business PC's.


I've got an LPT port. I just need to get an adapter.


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## AcesFull

Scafremon said:


> But...but.....you just need an parallel port, and $8 worth of reed switches, and you are off this thread, and back to your track build thread, which is really where you want to be. :thumbsup:
> 
> True, I'de rather be building. I've got the port, just need the switches. Do you use them as dry contacts or are they powered?


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## RiderZ

*LT Issues!*

I'm just up in arms with this whole deal.The LPT adaptor looks interesting but i really hate to spend $22 and it still dont work.I already have probably $150 in this set-up and it still dont work properly.I'm really "POed" at Mr. Braun as he has failed to contact me about this issue.Can you say "SCUMBAG"!!! I'm hoping TOMY comes out with there new "Control Center" soon.Scaf do you honestly think that the reed switches will cure our problems? Gene i measured the emitter height and there 2.5" from the track surface.The sensors are installed protruding a little bit above the track surface.


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## RiderZ

*LT Issues!*

Scaf-where do you get the correct reed switches from???


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## Scafremon

I'll post what I know, but I will defer to Gene for his expertiese.

http://www.miniatronics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=3_1

I used the "N" scale version, but I think Gene uses the HO scale version. I found the N scale at a local RR hobby shop, and that is why I used them.



Hot glued them to the underside of the track.




Wired them to a parallel printer cable, plugged it in, and I was counting laps. I had to mess with some software settings, but after that, it was on to the next task.


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## SwamperGene

Scafremon said:


> And SwamperGene - what's up? I mean, when I had a brief flirt with IR issues, you steered me towards the light...er...magnets.


Scaf RiderZ already had the setup from Greg, and I believe it was part of a Christmas present, so I figured it would be nice for him to get it working.

Personally, I'm still using my reed setup on my track. But, I've also had to make a reliable IR setup for the MaxxTrak I had as the reed switches are not reliable with a Maxx and stock t-Jets (the heavy rail sucks up the already weak flux of a bone stock T-Jet mag). So, I built a very reliable IR setup with the RS match pair IR set and it's in use over a year now, in a commercial environment, without a hitch. For the record, I have encountered one car, a stock-mag T-Jet jacked up with AFX rear wheels/tires, that gives me fits with my reeds. I can put his rear setup on my similar stock car and it's fine, so it could very well be something goofy with that particular car.

I really think were seeing a trend here that involves the adapters. What has to be remembered is that while USB is a standardized interface the way the port is being "virtualized" is not, technically there is a firmware layer being stuck in between that we know nothing about (trigger levels, what it expects to see hooked to it, etc). Given that RiderZ has said it got "better", though still not right, I'm inclined to say that the emitters are still not quite hot enough.


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## SwamperGene

As to the reeds, the ones Scaf shows will work, as will the HO version (Scaf you posted a closeup a long time ago, the reeds themselves do look to be the same for the N or HO sets). These reeds, even glued below the track, will count a bone-stock t-Jet.

Scaf laid it all out right there, draw yourself a line and center everything on it. Reeds between the inboard rails/slots. I can't see if he did it but I cut the leads down on the reeds to about 1/4-1/2 inch as they are magnetic, a strong car can set the reed off ahead of the actual switch (in the tube)....my start/finish line is centered over the reeds and I wanted to be able to nose right up to it without issues.

The "SwamperGene" trick is what's in between the reeds. The problem with such an easily triggered reed is that modern mag cars will trip the adjacent lane. In between the reeds and again centered on the line, I glue a 10-penny nail that's been beheaded. This acts as a flux collector and cures the adjacent lane triggers. I've literally put 100's of thousands of laps across these things without issue, and the setup works everytime. The only trouble you'll have with this setup is a lexan car on it's roof will still trigger them, so try to keep the starting line out of a wreck-prone area. Also, one thing I didn't do the first time that I do now is scrape a little channel in the track for the reeds, just to get a few thousandths closer to the surface.

Lastly, when I put the reeds in, I do so with the "paddles" of the switches parallel to the track surface, not perpendicular as many suggest you do with reeds....that way gave me issues with stock T-Jets.


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## AcesFull

Well, I was able to play with it a bit tonight and verify at least one problem. The detector on lane 4 is not working. I verified that the emitter works by placing it over other lanes. I also believe the power is way plenty with these as I can have them off-center of the detector in any direction over 3/4" and they will still operate. Tomorrow, Iwill take a closer look into the detector. Also Swamper, I belive you are correct on the adapter issue. All I do is unplug the usb and plug it back in and it works again for some more laps, although it misses ALOT of counts.


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## Scafremon

Gene,

You are the guru of do-it-yourself lap counting setups. :thumbsup: 

Personally, I think the IR systems have a bigger 'geek' factor to them then the reeds, and that is why I wanted to go with an IR system when I was building my track, and might be why others do to. Invisible light above the track - sensors below - cars breaking the plane, triggering laps on a computer - how cool is that!

Going to reed switches was kind of let down at first, but then, they worked - and worked good - and all the time - how cool is that! Now, I think the reeds have even more of a geek factor then the IR's, since the whole system is hidden. 

I think the advice and effort you have given to Riderz and others to troubleshoot their systems is awesome. And with parallel ports going the way of the floppy disk, I think it's imperitive that we get this usb thing worked out, so that computerized lap counting becomes a no-brainer, instead of such a frustration. 

For me, getting the lap counter situation behind me was a huge relief, and I think it will be so for RiderZ and Aces. It was so gratifying to go 'that works - what's next?" when building a track.

We appreciate your help Gene!


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## RiderZ

*LT Issues!*

I greatly appreciate the help here from all who post.Next question-if i buy the reeds can i just cut off the IR sensors and solder in the reed switches to the same wiring harness? As Gene says he thinks the IR led's are not "hot" enough.Today i am gonna put two IR emitters on a single 12V powerpack.As it sits now i have all four emitters on a single 12V pack.Since i have two 12V-200mAh powerpacks i'll see i can get them hot enough by doing a 2X2 setup.


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## SwamperGene

Thanks guys. I just know how much fun it is once the whole thing works!  

Yes, you can simply cut out the sensors and put the reeds in their place.

RiderZ don't waste your time on the 2x2 idea, when LED's are in parallel the voltage in the circuit is the same no matter how many are being used (so long as there's sufficient mA). 

I came up with a theory last night, and it relates to calibrating. It don't have a gamepad to try so I gotta ask, when you guys calibrate, does windows ask to just push and release the button, or are you promted to push and then prompted to release?


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## wheelszk

Up early this morning eh


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## SwamperGene

lol yeah wheels.

Guys, I've read through some of the history in these threads. When putting in the RS sensors, are you making sure the longer (+) lead is common (going to ground pin)?


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## AcesFull

SwamperGene said:


> lol yeah wheels.
> 
> Guys, I've read through some of the history in these threads. When putting in the RS sensors, are you making sure the longer (+) lead is common (going to ground pin)?


I wired it per G. Braun's instructions. -12VDC to the side withe the resistor that is already soldered on (cathode). +12VDC on the anode. Current flows from anode to cathode if I remember correctly. As far as the detector is concerned, it's a pre-made wiring harness. I need to look into that today when I get home from church.


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## SwamperGene

AcesFull said:


> I wired it per G. Braun's instructions. -12VDC to the side withe the resistor that is already soldered on (cathode). +12VDC on the anode. Current flows from anode to cathode if I remember correctly. As far as the detector is concerned, it's a pre-made wiring harness. I need to look into that today when I get home from church.


You're right in general, but some sensors can go in either way and should work better when reverse-biased, cathode going to +5V pins, anodes to ground (this is how Greg shows it too). A while back RiderZ asked about the +/- issue, I'm curious how he put his in. I'd assume Greg's harness is correct, but it couldn't hurt to check.


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## AcesFull

SwamperGene said:


> You're right in general, but some sensors can go in either way and should work better when reverse-biased, cathode going to +5V pins, anodes to ground (this is how Greg shows it too). A while back RiderZ asked about the +/- issue, I'm curious how he put his in. I'd assume Greg's harness is correct, but it couldn't hurt to check.


I know that the emitter are good because I verified their operations as stated in post#46. This afternoon I'll look into the detector side.


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## SwamperGene

*cool factor *

Scaf this was one of my first setups, using dollar flashlight LED's and CDS photocells that were formerly working as light sensors in auto-dimming rear view mirrors, the pic doesn't do justice to the blueish-white glow created in the plexi bridge. Very cool looking in person:


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## RiderZ

*LT Issues!*

Ok-some serious head scratching here.I rewired the emitters using the two 12V powerpacks i have-(too late Gene).Yes my emitters are wired with the long lead as ground on the emitters.Anyways no go as i have it.Missed a ton of lap counts and lost USB connection many times.I ended up taking the USB adaptor apart just to see whats inside and to check to see if there were any bad connections-(did'nt see any).Put it all back together and instead of a finger tight connection with the RJ45 connector to the USB adapter i tightened it with a screw driver.I ran 200 laps-(50 per lane) and it never missed one lap count.AcesFull just a thought but check your connectionsWhat in the world is going on here.How can this thing work great one time and crap the next????


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## RiderZ

*LT Issues!*

By the way Gene as far as the calibration goes.It does'nt ask you to calibrate the buttons-only the axis's of the joystick.Which obviously you cant do with no axis's being used with the lap timer system.


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## micyou03

When I set mine up, I was having all kinds of trouble with the IR emmitters. If you over power them even a little they lose intensity and won't work well. I changed the lights in my bridge to incondescent flashlight bulbs and haven't had a problem since. This is on my 1/43rd track. On my HO track I am just using an incindescent 60 watt bulb about 1.5 feet above the sensors. 

Also I originally tried Greg Braun's sensors to start with and even with his help troubleshooting I couldn't make it work. 

I am currently using IR dectors from Radio Shack, Laptimer 2000 on a Win 95 desk top system on my 1/43rd track, and IR cable from ebay, Laptimer 2000 on am XP Laptop on my HO track.

I am using the printer port set to LPT3 on both systems. I couldn't get LPT1 or LPT2 to work.


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## SwamperGene

RiderZ said:


> How can this thing work great one time and crap the next????


Well, you messed with two areas, the power to your lights and the connection to your adapter...could've been a bad or dirty connection either place. Aces might not be a bad idea to run a piece of scouring pad or something around the pins on the gameport/RJ45 connector too, never know how long or where they've been sitting, perhaps they got a little oxidation on them.

Keep us posted RiderZ, here's to hoping it stays good.:thumbsup:


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## RiderZ

*LT Issues!*

I'll go back down to the race room this evening and see if i can get a repeat of this morning.Thats a real nice light bar you made Gene!!! :thumbsup:


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## AcesFull

Cleaned and played around with the connections to no avail. At first it seemed to get rid of the port loss issue, but after about 150 laps to signal was again lost and it continues to miss laps. I tried running at various continued speeds to see if the speed across the detector plays a role, but it misses laps no matter how fast or slow I go.


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## AcesFull

*Lane 4 Solved*

Well, at least lane 4 now works. I did a continuity check through the wiring harness. Turns out that the lane 4 connection inside the junction box was no good. I had to take it apart and diconnect the connectors from the screws, scuff them up (there seemed to be a film of some sort on them). Put it back together and lane 4 is operational. Still loses USB connection and misses a boat load of laps.


----------



## noddaz

*silly question...*

Does the computer have a screen saver running?
Or maybe something else running in the backround that would interupt the Lap Timer program?
Scott


----------



## RiderZ

*!!!*

AcesFull did you tighten your connection from the harness to the USB adaptor?I use to finger tighten the two screws but this morning i decided to use a screwdriver and everthing worked as should.Im gonna go back down now and see if it "still" works.I'll be back after awhile with a comment.


----------



## RiderZ

*!!!*

Well i just came up from the dungeon.I ran 600 laps(150 per lane).I had zero USB disconnects & about 10 missed lap counts.All the missed laps were with "fast" cars.Weekend is over!


----------



## AcesFull

RiderZ said:


> AcesFull did you tighten your connection from the harness to the USB adaptor?I use to finger tighten the two screws but this morning i decided to use a screwdriver and everthing worked as should.Im gonna go back down now and see if it "still" works.I'll be back after awhile with a comment.


Yes, I tried that and it didn't do much of anything. Seemed to work at first, but then it just started disconnecting again. Since I do not use this computer for anything at all, I'm going to uninstall every program on it and turn off everything that runs in the background that's not needed. Maybe something is interrupting, I don't know. Oh well, i'm finished for today. I'm going to play with my other "hobby" now (see pic below).


----------



## AcesFull

noddaz said:


> Does the computer have a screen saver running?
> Or maybe something else running in the backround that would interupt the Lap Timer program?
> Scott


There is no screensaver running or any other program running. I'll take a look at the stuff in the background. The only other thing I can think of is that the mouse is also usb and maybe it's interfering somehow.


----------



## micyou03

noddaz said:


> Does the computer have a screen saver running?
> Or maybe something else running in the backround that would interupt the Lap Timer program?
> Scott



When my virus scan is running my laptimer does flukey things.


----------



## noddaz

*Usb?*



AcesFull said:


> There is no screensaver running or any other program running. I'll take a look at the stuff in the background. The only other thing I can think of is that the mouse is also usb and maybe it's interfering somehow.


I guess that it could.....
Somehow running this sort of thing through a USB port does not sound like a good thing....

Scott


----------



## AcesFull

Hopefully good news. The IT guy here at work found an old sound card in one of his desk drawers that has the 15 pin joystick connection. I looked it up online and got the drivers for it. I will install it when I get home. That will let me know for sure if the usb adapter is an issue. I'll keep you guys updated.


----------



## AcesFull

Oh yea, also, I was speaking to some guys at the local electronics warehouse and they suggested that maybe it's not counting all the laps correctly due to the fact that the cpu is always checking for inputs and since the trigger pulse from the detector is so quick, it's "missing" it in the "rotation". One guy suggested hooking up a 555 timer as a one shot to lengthen the input signal, making sure it gets detected. Any thoughts on that? It would be really easy to do.


----------



## SwamperGene

AcesFull said:


> Oh yea, also, I was speaking to some guys at the local electronics warehouse and they suggested that maybe it's not counting all the laps correctly due to the fact that the cpu is always checking for inputs and since the trigger pulse from the detector is so quick, it's "missing" it in the "rotation". One guy suggested hooking up a 555 timer as a one shot to lengthen the input signal, making sure it gets detected. Any thoughts on that? It would be really easy to do.


Shouldn't have to. First of all, people have been running lap counting programs for quite some time now...this one included...on very old machines. I know earlier versions of LT2000 will run on a 486 with Win95. While what they told you makes sense and is correct in theory, it would only account for sporadic and non-consistent missed counts, especially with a properly set up detection system. Dead strip length (not implementation) has been known to produce that problem, but a working light or reed switch setup is as good as a button. For older machines, there is a setting in LT2000 to adjust timer resolution to 5 or 10 ms you could try that. Thinking about it, if anything could be causing any latency it's the USB adapter (I think that one is 1.0 spec?), but again at modern machine speeds I don't believe this would be a problem.

Here's a test you could try if you're willing to take the time. Cut one lead goint to each sensor (leave room to re-solder back together). With all 4 sensors now "cut out" of the circuit, you will be able to manually count laps by shorting the wires. If it all works, you know it's the IR setup.


----------



## SwamperGene

Just though to add, a 3" car traveling 30fps will block the sensor a good 8 ms, at a timer resolution of 1ms you'd have 8 opportunities to count the lap. That's plenty. If you really want to get creative, you could build a comparator setup for each lane then use that to drive simple reed relays, you can tune the comparator circuit so a simple narrow change in IR intensity will trigger a hit. I've done this to interface IR to LaneMaster and it works great.


----------



## RiderZ

*!!!*

Nice bike AcesFull.My has been in the garage with the cover on it since mid October.It wont see the light of day at the earliest late April.All the sand & salt has to be rain washed off the roads before i'll break her out!


----------



## AcesFull

RiderZ said:


> Nice bike AcesFull.My has been in the garage with the cover on it since mid October.It wont see the light of day at the earliest late April.All the sand & salt has to be rain washed off the roads before i'll break her out!


Love the streetfighter look. I'm thinking about converting mine. Too bad yours sits in the garage, I get to ride year round. Matter of fact, I bought this one last May and now have almost 30K on her.

On another note, I installed the soundcard with joystick port and the drivers and now I have absolutely nothing. Everything says it's "working properly", but in the game controller area, it shows theres no connection. It doesn't recognize anything being plugged in at all now. Unfortunately for me, I know very little about computers and how to properly set them up.


----------



## AcesFull

SwamperGene said:


> Shouldn't have to. First of all, people have been running lap counting programs for quite some time now...this one included...on very old machines. I know earlier versions of LT2000 will run on a 486 with Win95. While what they told you makes sense and is correct in theory, it would only account for sporadic and non-consistent missed counts, especially with a properly set up detection system. Dead strip length (not implementation) has been known to produce that problem, but a working light or reed switch setup is as good as a button. For older machines, there is a setting in LT2000 to adjust timer resolution to 5 or 10 ms you could try that. Thinking about it, if anything could be causing any latency it's the USB adapter (I think that one is 1.0 spec?), but again at modern machine speeds I don't believe this would be a problem.
> 
> Here's a test you could try if you're willing to take the time. Cut one lead goint to each sensor (leave room to re-solder back together). With all 4 sensors now "cut out" of the circuit, you will be able to manually count laps by shorting the wires. If it all works, you know it's the IR setup.


I have repeatedly verifired that the operation of the emitter detector circuit works. The main issue seems to be a connection issue. I think I'm going to try the printer port option.


----------



## SwamperGene

Being you have a printer port that's the way to fly. BTW, if you have an old printer cable and can use a multimeter or continuity tester you very easily make your own cable, just gotta hook the detectors to it.

I can't stress enough that verifying that the IR setup is "working" as in being "on" is not enough. Guys pull their hair out over this. To verify that they are correctly working (outside of possible PC/interface issues) requires taking a multimeter and reading the output through the detectors at your given light intensity. If the setup is not correct, it may work but drive you nuts...shadows, room light flicker, power fluctuations....all these can affect your setup even when invisible to the naked eye and will cause missed and/or false laps. Every port in these instances has a definitive "firing point" and the detectors have to swing well into both sides of that point to prevent issues. Close is not good enough for reliability. Unfortunately, these trigger points are not consistent between different PC's/Hardware and that makes it all the more difficult...in fact it's what keeps me from taking all the knowledge I've gained doing these and selling my own setups, you never know what's gonna happen when it gets plugged into another PC and I feel for Greg on this issue (never met or talked to the man myself, btw). Trakmate avoids this by providing it's own interface board that apparently works well with properly set up IR bridges. But again that's the big question and I've worked on and helped people with non-functioning trackmate IR stuff too because their board also has a specific trigger point that has to be built to. And again, guys like RiderZ would still have the questionable USB interface to deal with. What stinks for you guys is when you read about so many that plug the stuff in and it works.


----------



## AcesFull

SwamperGene said:


> Being you have a printer port that's the way to fly. BTW, if you have an old printer cable and can use a multimeter or continuity tester you very easily make your own cable, just gotta hook the detectors to it.
> 
> I can't stress enough that verifying that the IR setup is "working" as in being "on" is not enough. Guys pull their hair out over this. To verify that they are correctly working (outside of possible PC/interface issues) requires taking a multimeter and reading the output through the detectors at your given light intensity. If the setup is not correct, it may work but drive you nuts...shadows, room light flicker, power fluctuations....all these can affect your setup even when invisible to the naked eye and will cause missed and/or false laps. Every port in these instances has a definitive "firing point" and the detectors have to swing well into both sides of that point to prevent issues. Close is not good enough for reliability. Unfortunately, these trigger points are not consistent between different PC's/Hardware and that makes it all the more difficult...in fact it's what keeps me from taking all the knowledge I've gained doing these and selling my own setups, you never know what's gonna happen when it gets plugged into another PC and I feel for Greg on this issue (never met or talked to the man myself, btw). Trakmate avoids this by providing it's own interface board that apparently works well with properly set up IR bridges. But again that's the big question and I've worked on and helped people with non-functioning trackmate IR stuff too because their board also has a specific trigger point that has to be built to. And again, guys like RiderZ would still have the questionable USB interface to deal with. What stinks for you guys is when you read about so many that plug the stuff in and it works.


I totally understand where you are coming from concerniing the IR setup and missed lap counts. I do think that it's a seperate issue from the connection one I currently have. I think I need to solve the connection issue first though as it won't matter how many laps the hardware can accurately count if there is no connectioon. I do have the cable and the schematics to do it, so maybe I'll work on it at work tomorrow a bit.


----------



## pat4gis

_*To verify that they are correctly working (outside of possible PC/interface issues) requires taking a multimeter and reading the output through the detectors at your given light intensity*_

Can you elaborate on this? I just tried something similar, and I seem to get ~1.25 V by measuring across the emmitter (hadnt occurred to me to try the measuring across the detectors, that will be harder). Also I have 1/2 w IR emmitters as recommended by G.Braun with photo sensors I bought from him, and I see that RiderZ is using 1/4 w, my resisters are defininetly hot after being on for couple hours (I can hold my thumb on them for about 1 or 2 seconds, then its too hot for me). Meter says I am pushing 16.9 V with my 13 V 650 mA wall wart. I am using the RS USB, Gamepad thing.

RiderZ: how are you hooking up your IR's to the resistors, it looks like you solder them the a long bare silver wire, but there must be more too it than I can tell from the picture.


----------



## SwamperGene

You should be able to get a resistance reading across the detectors that will vary with the intensity of the emitters.

Your setup is getting hot because you are pumping 16V into it. Wall wart labels generally refer to the output _at_ the listed load (mA). Unless you are using a decent "hobbyist" one like a RS one or something, always check the no-load voltage of wall warts before using them.


----------



## pat4gis

SwamperGene said:


> You should be able to get a resistance reading across the detectors that will vary with the intensity of the emitters.
> 
> Your setup is getting hot because you are pumping 16V into it. Wall wart labels generally refer to the output _at_ the listed load (mA). Unless you are using a decent "hobbyist" one like a RS one or something, always check the no-load voltage of wall warts before using them.


 Thanks SG for this and all suggestions.
So I if Increase the resistance (by how much?) then I can shed more heat, but my IR's will be dimmer(?), which probably wont help? Lots of things pointing to the USB adapter. I do need to improve my wiring connections, but loose connections on the emmitter seem to cause extra laps (which i am not seeing).


----------



## SwamperGene

Anytime :dude: 


Ideally, I think you would be better off finding a lower voltage supply. Larger value resistors will make it hotter and yes it will make them dimmer. Any lower and you could fry 'em. If you're wire in parallel (separate resistor on each LED), you could get away with a 3-4V 100-150 mA wall wart and need very little in the way of resistance. Right now, you're "dumping" probably around 12-14V through those resistors.


----------



## AcesFull

*Question?*

I was looking at the wiring diagrams on G. brauns website for the printer port wiring of the detectors and he lists 2 versions. One titles "TrackMate Wiring" and the other "VRS Wiring". What do these mean?


----------



## SwamperGene

Virtual Race System ...another product that was popular at one time. Go with the TrackMate type wiring.


----------



## AcesFull

SwamperGene said:


> Virtual Race System ...another product that was popular at one time. Go with the TrackMate type wiring.


It shall be done tomorrow. Actually, I think I'll make up adapters for both the printer port and serial I/O. Hopefully, I have positive results on here tomorrow night.


----------



## RiderZ

*!!!*

Ok-seriously looking at the TrackMate package.By looking at the interface card on their website-how does it (the interface card) hook up to the computer?I see how the emitter harness hooks up the the interface card but again what is used from the interface card to the computer???


----------



## RiderZ

Nevermind-i see. It hooks up to the computer by a 9-pin serial connector!


----------



## SwamperGene

Serial port....so you'd need a USB/Serial adapter


----------



## SwamperGene

By far, the most versatile when in comes to interfaces: http://slottrak.com/

Supposedly, and if they say it works I believe it,....you can even use a USB webcam as a trigger.


----------



## RiderZ

*!!!*

Ok Gene-which is it-TrackMate or SlotTrack??? I am tired of @#$%! around with LT 2000.Get me counting some laps-RELIABLY!!!!!!!!!


----------



## SwamperGene

Until USB adapter issues are ruled out, it's hard to say. To SlotTrak's advantage, it works with a Joystick connection and has a button in the setup window to "Zero the Port". If that works, $99 bucks and you're done. IF it can work around the possible USB adapter issue.

TrackMate may work right off the bat....it may not too. Since it's all bundled if it doesn't your stuck finding another PC or losing your investment.

What I'd do, the cheapest gamble to get the biggest bang:

Get one of those parallel cards, see how it works with LT2000 in your PC. If it doesn't, go for a cheap used tower that's got a parallel port and SlotTrak for $99 bucks.

Simple math...if your laptop can't be used either way:

Slottrack: $99 plus used tower.
TrakMate: $180-some? plus used tower.


----------



## AcesFull

*Get a load of this!!!*

So I purchased the parts to hook up to the LPT1 port on the computer and can the whole usb issue, which by the way, after speaking with one of the software engineers at work, I found out that the main reason I'm having the issue with the joystick thing is because I run XP and it wasn't developed for gaming but more for the office. Here goes...I wired exactly per the diagram on hostoltcarracing.com

Lane 1: when power is aplied to the rails and the car begins to move, it counts 1 lap for every 1/2 second in operation, plus anytime you pass the detector...as a matter of fact, anytime any car on any lane is operating it increments its total by 1 every 1/2 second.

Lane 2: kid of does whatever it feels like. Seems to add an extra count within 1 second after having passed the detecotor and recording a lap.

Lane 3:Operates as it should, other than causing lane 1 to increment every 1/2 second, but all lanes do that.

Lane 4: counts in 2's.

Interesting huh?

I verified the wiring 100 times, and it matches the drawing. It's all screwy, I don't even know where to begin. I've got some reed switches, maybe I'll try those.

The good news is that it never misses a lap though...Oh and Swamper, I had to lower the emitters by about an inch to get anything at all.


----------



## pat4gis

AcesFull said:


> So I purchased the parts to hook up to the LPT1 port on the computer and can the whole usb issue, which by the way, after speaking with one of the software engineers at work, I found out that the main reason I'm having the issue with the joystick thing is because I run XP and it wasn't developed for gaming but more for the office. Here goes...I wired exactly per the diagram on hostoltcarracing.com
> 
> Lane 1: when power is aplied to the rails and the car begins to move, it counts 1 lap for every 1/2 second in operation, plus anytime you pass the detector...as a matter of fact, anytime any car on any lane is operating it increments its total by 1 every 1/2 second.
> 
> Lane 2: kid of does whatever it feels like. Seems to add an extra count within 1 second after having passed the detecotor and recording a lap.
> 
> Lane 3:Operates as it should, other than causing lane 1 to increment every 1/2 second, but all lanes do that.
> 
> Lane 4: counts in 2's.
> 
> Interesting huh?
> 
> I verified the wiring 100 times, and it matches the drawing. It's all screwy, I don't even know where to begin. I've got some reed switches, maybe I'll try those.
> 
> The good news is that it never misses a lap though...Oh and Swamper, I had to lower the emitters by about an inch to get anything at all.


 That sounds like interference from your track power. Are any of the timing wires crossing over the lane power? Or can you plug the timing power into a different circuit than your track power? Or try the "invert" on the Laptimer 2000 settings if you havent allready.

Also might be the network cable going from the photo sensors junction box to the game port. Try a different cable and don't use a really long cable either if possible. I had issues when I went with a 20' cable. Pulling the cable out and putting back in causes laps to be counted, it sounds sort of like what your are experiencing lost of connection (pin 4? which all lanes are tied to).

http://www.hoslotcarracing.com/image/LapTimer/JoyPort.gif


----------



## micyou03

I had trouble with mine when it was set up near a lot of track going in different directions. I also had trouble until I switched to a regulated power supply.


----------



## Scafremon

I think your solution is now in the software Aces, which is a good thing.

Try the invert thing like Pat mentioned, and also checkmark the "Trackmate Compatible" or something like that box. When I was troubleshooting my setup, I was getting wierd times also, but software things solved that. I think I had to reconfigure the property settings of my LPT port also...but as long as something happens everytime your car crosses, I think software stuff can resolve it.


----------



## SwamperGene

Aces you could try the software settings in may do some good. But one thing stands out among everything in your last post that would cause all the problems you mention:



> ...I had to lower the emitters by about an inch to get anything at all.


To me, that says they are not "bright" enough, as I've been saying all along. What are you powering them with...V and mA rating of the supply? And what value resistor? Also, are you sure the sensors are reverse-biased ... anodes ("+" leg of sensor) to ground? Are you still using the sensors supplied by Greg? You may have mentioned all this before but it's getting late :drunk: 

Also, check the no-load output of the supply.


----------



## AcesFull

SwamperGene said:


> Aces you could try the software settings in may do some good. But one thing stands out among everything in your last post that would cause all the problems you mention:
> 
> 
> 
> To me, that says they are not "bright" enough, as I've been saying all along. What are you powering them with...V and mA rating of the supply? And what value resistor? Also, are you sure the sensors are reverse-biased ... anodes ("+" leg of sensor) to ground? Are you still using the sensors supplied by Greg? You may have mentioned all this before but it's getting late :drunk:
> 
> Also, check the no-load output of the supply.


I put that emitter lowering statement in there just for you. It's kind of funny though because when using the LPT port, the detectors wouldn't trigger, but if I switched back to the joystick/usb, it was fine. Yes, all the hardware is supplied from Greg.

I've messed with every software setting I can think of and nothing changes. Is there some sort of LPT port configurator I need to look at?


----------



## AcesFull

pat4gis said:


> That sounds like interference from your track power. Are any of the timing wires crossing over the lane power? Or can you plug the timing power into a different circuit than your track power? Or try the "invert" on the Laptimer 2000 settings if you havent allready.
> 
> Also might be the network cable going from the photo sensors junction box to the game port. Try a different cable and don't use a really long cable either if possible. I had issues when I went with a 20' cable. Pulling the cable out and putting back in causes laps to be counted, it sounds sort of like what your are experiencing lost of connection (pin 4? which all lanes are tied to).
> 
> http://www.hoslotcarracing.com/image/LapTimer/JoyPort.gif


I think it's with the LPT port configuration because it does not act that way when I go back to the joystick/usb. I am running power from a different source as well and my cable is only maybe 5'. I need to look into the shared common, it may be an issue using this port.


----------



## RiderZ

*!!!*

Hey Gene-maybe i'll try the HS Parallel Port card from the ebay link you provided.I got one problem though.I'll need the adaptor for the RJ45 cable to go to the card from the sensor harness.Theres only one person i've found who has them and i'll never buy anything from "that person" again. PM me Gene if you have a little time!!!  This is the adaptor i'll need-correct?


----------



## SwamperGene

RS used to carry them, usually like 3 bucks or so. I'll see if I have any laying around as well.

Yes, that is what ya need. :thumbsup:


----------



## RiderZ

*!!!*

Gene- i see from the ebay link that they also sell card adaptors with the db-9 pin connectors that might work for the TrackMate connection too!!!


----------



## RiderZ

*!!!*

The "only" good thing about buying the adaptor from GB is that the correct pin numbers are already set up!


----------



## SwamperGene

so many choices!

Let's see. Buy the Serial card and everything works...you won't need TrackMate. But, you'll be missing out on a very big feature of racing, which is track power control.

Buy the serial port, and it still doesn't work. Well, you know from the keyboard demo that LT2000 works. It's been around awhile and is very stable. So, you could get the TrackMate package...but, it would still be a gamble without having had LT2000 working through the port.

Both of these scenarios apply to the LPT card as well.

You do have one other option...you could try a set of reeds with your current setup. Less than 10 bucks and an hour or so of your time. If they give you a problem, you _definitely_ have an issue with your PC and/or that adapter. Reeds are not "too bright" or "too dim", they are either on or off, no guesswork involved.


----------



## RiderZ

Lets go the card route-but i will still need that adaptor.But i WILL NOT purchase the adaptor from GB.Can anyone help me out on that? Also i will need to find the "correct" reed switches???????


----------



## RiderZ

I guess i would just be happy to have the LT 2000 system working reliably.The features it has are fine with me.Honestly it does'nt seem reality that i will be hosting any races.Just not enough interest in slot cars in my area.Shoot i can hardly get any friends to show up to race anymore.Last week i went and raced at Mike Medanic's house to run G-Jets.They have invited me to join there group.They run on some nice MaxTrax layouts.They have four tracks to choose from.Needless to say i have some G-Jets on the way!


----------



## SwamperGene

Reeds....they come 5 to a pack for like 8.95

http://www.miniatronics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=STORES

punch in your state.


----------



## RiderZ

*!!!*

!!!!!


----------



## RiderZ

Minitronics-which ones. N scale or HO scale reeds???


----------



## AcesFull

Keep me updated guys. I'm about to give up on the emitter detector route. I've got various proximity switches and laser switches I'm playing around with in the meantime.


----------



## RiderZ

*!!!*

Just purchased 10 miniatronics "N" scale reed switches.I hope these work!


----------



## Hornet

Only differance is the shape of the Neo magnets they come with. :thumbsup:


----------



## RiderZ

*!!!*

A few posts back AcesFull asked how i wired up the emitters on the bridge.I put the resistors on the negative (-) side of the emitter.I ran the positive (+)side of the power pack on the long lead of the emitter.I just used some tinned copper wire the wife uses with here stained glass projects.I use two power packs & 4 emitters.Thats 2 emitters for one powerpack.I ran a ton of laps tonight with the LifeLike cars and a bunch a laps with a new G-Jet.Only missed like 5 laps.Not bad-still gonna try the reed switches i have coming.


----------



## AcesFull

*Woohoo!!!*

I finally got it. I may have to break this up into several posts, but I finally got a consistant lap timer. To begin with I thouroughly tested my parrallel port using stripped wires and a momentary switch, as well as tied a meter across the pins to check the output status (first pic). Once I verified all worked properly, I began to test my new toys. the first is a Turck capacitive proximity sensor with an NPN output (2nd pic). The third pic is my setup. Next I created a section of dead track, because with the rails in, the sensor trip since it's capacitive. I then calibrated the sensor to read through the track to detect a car on the other side, when the car is present, both the green and orange lights are on(last 2 pics). Once hooked up for a test run, I ran all lanes for 100 laps without a single missed lap or lost connection. See next post for my other option.


----------



## AcesFull

*Woohoo part 2*

I also got my hands on some Banner laser switches (1st pic). These are also NPN output. The setup is identical to the proximity switches. I mounted one to the bridge (I would attach photos, but apparently I am over some sort of limit. What's that all about?)Oh well, I powered up and ran some test laps. Again, 100 laps per lane flawlessly. I love it!!! I'm going with the laser setup for a permanent one. I will build the interface box and cable this weekend and finally be done with it. Thanks everybody for all the input and advise. Edit: OK I paid to be a supporter so I can ad some pics.


----------



## SwamperGene

The laser sensors look like the ticket, although a bit pricey (Best I saw was $52 each?). Is the field gonna be narrow enough to operate with four mounted that close to each other?

I'd be curious how the first sensors would work being in such close "proximity" - no pun intended lol -to each other...adjacent lane hits and stuff?


----------



## Scafremon

Excellent :thumbsup: 

However, I'd still glue a nail on the bottom of the track between the lanes.... just because.


----------



## AcesFull

SwamperGene said:


> The laser sensors look like the ticket, although a bit pricey (Best I saw was $52 each?). Is the field gonna be narrow enough to operate with four mounted that close to each other?
> 
> I'd be curious how the first sensors would work being in such close "proximity" - no pun intended lol -to each other...adjacent lane hits and stuff?


Already tested for that with both the proximity switch and the laser. It's all good. Price - Free. There are benefits to managing an R&D lab. I've got this kind of stuff lying around everywhere. And if I don't have it, I can source lab samples for free, well I pay for shipping, but that's a damn good deal.


----------



## dvngo2001

RiderZ,

I think this place have you're looking for http://www.computercablestore.com/Modular_Adapter_Kit_DB25__PID982.aspx .

Hope it helps.

-Dzung


----------



## RiderZ

*!!!*

Talk about high tech AcesFull.Wow-at least you got it figured out.Mine was working pretty good last night.I will try the reed switches when they come in.Thanks for the link to the adaptor-dvngo2001!!! I may need that if the reeds dont work out.


----------



## roffutt

Aces, Very Slick! I'm jealous.. Laser switches! It doesn't get any more 21st century then that!

At one point, I had the idea of maybe using RFID tags.. I thought a benefit might be that each car could have it's own unique tag.. Which would easily keep track of each cars best lap time. And you wouldn't have to worry about mis-counts due to cars in the wrong lane or wrecks that carry through the light gate. Of course, my plan fell through when I realized... I know nothing about RFID technology. 

-roffutt


----------



## f1nutz

*reed switches*

I recently found a cheap source for reed switches at the local dollar chain store. Dollarama. I actually went in to get some of those magnetic window security switches but they didn't have any. 
The product is an automatic cupboard light made by Sunbeam. It has a light with a magnetic sensor that keeps the light off when the door is closed. Just like the fridge...honest.
If you don't mind disecting the thing it comes with one mini reed switch. One fairly strong thin bar magnet, 2 white leds and 3 mini batteries. All for a buck!!
I desoldered the reeds and kept the rest of the stuff for other electronic projects. Maybe some track lighting or something.
Another tip when placing reed switches is to use a kneadable eraser or blutac to position them in case they need adjusting. if you glue them they will usually break very easily if you try to reposition them.


----------



## AfxToo

I've mentioned the RFID thing before because WalMart is driving the retail industry to put a unique tag on every item in their stores. This will mean read-only tags will have to get down below 10 cents to be cost effective. The technology is on a trajectory to achieve the WalMart goals.

If you really want a simple and virtually bulletproof PC based race management system just go with TrackMate and use dead strips as specified by TrackMate. I've seen this setup used numerous times on numerous tracks for everything up to including national level races running everything from TJets to Unlimiteds. 

Aces, I think you're missing a PLC, distributed remote I/O, a high end HMI/SCADA package, and a data historian. Why go a little way when there is so much more you could do? Frankly, I've seen better controls in automotive assembly plants, breweries, and foundries. I think you still have some more work to do.


----------



## Hornet

Good find Bill,thanks for the heads-up on the Dollarama store.
Rick


----------



## AcesFull

AfxToo said:


> I've mentioned the RFID thing before because WalMart is driving the retail industry to put a unique tag on every item in their stores. This will mean read-only tags will have to get down below 10 cents to be cost effective. The technology is on a trajectory to achieve the WalMart goals.
> 
> If you really want a simple and virtually bulletproof PC based race management system just go with TrackMate and use dead strips as specified by TrackMate. I've seen this setup used numerous times on numerous tracks for everything up to including national level races running everything from TJets to Unlimiteds.
> 
> Aces, I think you're missing a PLC, distributed remote I/O, a high end HMI/SCADA package, and a data historian. Why go a little way when there is so much more you could do? Frankly, I've seen better controls in automotive assembly plants, breweries, and foundries. I think you still have some more work to do.


Give me some time my friend. I do have working experience with everything you've mentioned. I'm thinking about starting with a touchscreen for an HMI. I wil have to develope my own software though which will be time consuming. But for now, at least I can count laps consistently while I buy more STUFF!!!


----------



## AcesFull

I built the interface module and will fully test when I get home tonight. I'll let you guys know how the lasers work as a full system.


----------



## AfxToo

No doubt! All I can say is I won't be a bit surprised to see a full sized Hoffman enclosure sitting beside your track table and all your track wiring running through conduit. Hey, someone's gotta put the "kill" in overkill.

There's been more than a few model railroaders who have used PLCs for rail switching and control. I think some of the newer micro PLCs with integrated HMI would be a very cost effective alternative to the now defunct TrikTrax timing/counting system. 

Nice work on the interface modules.


----------



## AcesFull

AfxToo said:


> No doubt! All I can say is I won't be a bit surprised to see a full sized Hoffman enclosure sitting beside your track table and all your track wiring running through conduit. Hey, someone's gotta put the "kill" in overkill.
> 
> There's been more than a few model railroaders who have used PLCs for rail switching and control. I think some of the newer micro PLCs with integrated HMI would be a very cost effective alternative to the now defunct TrikTrax timing/counting system.
> 
> Nice work on the interface modules.


I was counting on running flex conduit with quick AMP disconnect couplings. Chances are, I will be moving in the next 2 years, wife's pregnant with our fifth kid, so I need everything to be modular. I know it's overkill, but I think it's well worth it. IMO


----------



## AcesFull

Well, I set up everything and it's schweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet!!! Everything is only temporary as far as mounting location. I'm also still waiting to recieve my sensor for lane 4. I ran a ton of laps on the three lanes with sensors without incident. I love it. One nice thing, which may be pointless, but I can put the start/stop anywhere on the track as I change layouts in the future. Here's a couple of pics.


----------



## SwamperGene

Cool Aces :thumbsup: 


Just outta curiousity, is there a cheaper alternative to those lasers? Banner lists the ones you got at $72 _a piece_.
I know they make IR setups similar to that using reflective technology, Carrera has (or had) a completely portable above-track setup that used IR's.

BTW, now that you're on LPT did you look at the track power control option available in LT2000 ?


----------



## AcesFull

SwamperGene said:


> Cool Aces :thumbsup:
> 
> 
> Just outta curiousity, is there a cheaper alternative to those lasers? Banner lists the ones you got at $72 _a piece_.
> I know they make IR setups similar to that using reflective technology, Carrera has (or had) a completely portable above-track setup that used IR's.
> 
> BTW, now that you're on LPT did you look at the track power control option available in LT2000 ?


I think I can get a better price on those lasers through our suppliers at work. I personally got them for free because we had them lying around and they are obsolete pertaining to our equipment. I think the proxinity switches are pretty cheap too. There are alot of switches using similar principles available. One other one I might try is fiber optic. I have a couple of those also. Using the LPT port makes it so easy too. The status register are at logic high, so you just hook up an NPN device to sink for a split second, acting as a switch, and when it returns high, it gives a count. 

I havn't looked into the track power relay control just yet as I'm still in the process of building my power supplies. What exactly is it used for? Why would you want to control power from the computer?


----------



## pat4gis

AcesFull said:


> I think I can get a better price on those lasers through our suppliers at work. I personally got them for free because we had them lying around and they are obsolete pertaining to our equipment. I think the proxinity switches are pretty cheap too. There are alot of switches using similar principles available. One other one I might try is fiber optic. I have a couple of those also. Using the LPT port makes it so easy too. The status register are at logic high, so you just hook up an NPN device to sink for a split second, acting as a switch, and when it returns high, it gives a count.
> 
> I havn't looked into the track power relay control just yet as I'm still in the process of building my power supplies. What exactly is it used for? Why would you want to control power from the computer?


 Typically in a race, the track power is turn off at that start of the race, with LT2000 (the other timing systems have variations of this), when you run a race, it counts down with a simulated light tree, 5 red circles turn green, then the race starts and power is turned on to the track. At the end of the set time for the heat 3,4,5, 10 minutes, power is cut, cars stop right where they are (or coast to  )and the laps are recorded, and the partial laps (by counting how many track sections from the start) are recorded (ie, 67 laps 22 sections). I never had computer controlled power, because you can't do it with the USB Game port adapter.


----------



## Hornet

If you're building your own power supplies,odds are you'll have a big ole Cap in the system to stablize the output,and if you don't use a relay to turn off the power to the track,that big ole "Cap" is gonna drive your cars around the track till it unloads. :woohoo:


----------



## AcesFull

pat4gis said:


> Typically in a race, the track power is turn off at that start of the race, with LT2000 (the other timing systems have variations of this), when you run a race, it counts down with a simulated light tree, 5 red circles turn green, then the race starts and power is turned on to the track. At the end of the set time for the heat 3,4,5, 10 minutes, power is cut, cars stop right where they are (or coast to  )and the laps are recorded, and the partial laps (by counting how many track sections from the start) are recorded (ie, 67 laps 22 sections). I never had computer controlled power, because you can't do it with the USB Game port adapter.


I like the light tree thing. That would be pretty cool. I'll have to do some research on that. Thanks for the info.


----------



## pat4gis

I finally got around to testing my photo sensors. Unscientific, but was able to find some variation in the signal from the sensor that seemed to be a potential source for missed lap counts. 

Meter Setting
Lane 20M 2M 200K
4 0.38/0.01 0.94/0.007 19.4/3.9 
3 0.28/ 0.90/0.006 17.5/3.4
2 0.44/0.01 0.108/0.006 19.0/3.6
1 0.44/0.001 0.103/0.006 20.9/3.0

This first reading is with the sensor covered with my finger, the second is uncovered with the just the led/ir hitting it (I have fluorescent lighting and one bare bulb overhead on the ceiling. It also occurs to me that heat from my finger might effect the photo sensor reading?

I also set up a test with a car running. With metter on 200K it would be at about 3.6 at rest, when a car crossed the sensor, it would bounce up (and down) to 4.5,5.6,4.9, 3.3,3.8,6.4). I think this is when I convinced myself that I have the power to the emitters wired wrong, (and it has always been a bit of Frankenstein monster), so I switched the positive and negative feed into the contraption, and things got really weird, Laptimer dingin every couple of seconds, blue lane not registering anything, sometimes no lanes registering when I slide a piece of 6” track across all 4 sensors. I do believe I blew all of my LED/IRs by putting +19v (unloaded from my 13 v 650 mA wall wart) right through the Anode. I tested my resisters and was getting .453 on one of the meter settings, so I think they are ok.

My theory’s included (prior to frying the LED’s)
•	is that the photo sensors are squirrely due to not being matched with the LED’s
•	the way I glued them under the track
•	variations in they way they are directed at the sensor
•	they are just squirrely,


----------



## AcesFull

Hornet said:


> If you're building your own power supplies,odds are you'll have a big ole Cap in the system to stablize the output,and if you don't use a relay to turn off the power to the track,that big ole "Cap" is gonna drive your cars around the track till it unloads. :woohoo:


Actually, I'm just building part of the supplies. I'm using 2 channel variable supply as a main. One channel will be dedicated to powering 4 independant variable supplies (LM338 circuits), which I can switch to to lower any one lane alone (I have little kids), without affecting the other lanes. For a race though, the other channel will be used which will supply all lanes with equal power.


----------



## AcesFull

pat4gis said:


> I inally got around to testing the photo sensors. Not really a scientific test run here. I did not know what a realistic value of resistance coming from the photo sensors would be, but I did see some variation with the meter on 200K and cars going across. Some times jumped from 3.6 to 6, somtimes seemed to just drop to 3.2 or do nothing. Most of the time it jumped up a 1. or 2.0. I am guessing that it takes about a 1.0 or more to signal LT that something crossed, and the < 1.0 jumps were potential uncounted laps. This test was run without the Game Port adapter (leading me to believe its not the problem), by opening up the 14 pin plug that would go into the game port (if I had one), and sticking phone wire into that back where the wires go into the pins, and hooking up the meter. In my case, pin 4 (Green wire) was common, pin 2 - brown lane 1, pin 7 black - lane 2, pin 10 - orange, lane 3, pin 14 blue - lane 4.
> 
> Meter Setting
> Lane	20M 2M 200K
> 4	0.38/0.01	0.94/0.007	19.4/3.9
> 3	0.28/ 0.90/0.006	17.5/3.4
> 2	0.44/0.01	0.108/0.006	19.0/3.6
> 1	0.44/0.001	0.103/0.006	20.9/3.0
> 
> This first reading is with the sensor covered with my finger, the second is uncovered with the just the led/ir hitting it(I have fluorescent lighting and one bare bulb overhead on the ceiling.
> I also set up a test with a car running. With meter on 200K it would be at about 3.6, when a car crossed the sensor, it would bounce up (and down) to 4.5,5.6,4.9, 3.3,3.8,6.4).
> I think this is when I convinced myself that I have the power to the emitters wired wrong, and it has always been a bit of Frankenstein monster, so I switched the positive and negative feed into the contraption, and things got really weird, Laptimer dinging every couple of seconds, blue lane not registering anything, sometimes no lanes registering when I slide a piece of 6” track across all 4 sensors. I do believe I blew all of my LED/IRs by putting +19v (unloaded from my 13v/650mA wall wart) right through the Anode. I tested my resisters and was getting .453 on one of the meter settings, so I think they are ok.
> 
> My theory’s included (prior to frying the LED’s)
> •	is that the photo sensors are squirrely due to not being matched with the LED’s
> •	the way I glued them under the track
> •	variations in the way they are directed at the sensor
> •	they are just squirrely,


I ran a battery of similar tests in every configuration I could think of and could never get anything consistant. Both the proximity switches and laser switches are extremely accurate and consistant. I've decided to go with the lasers myself. I have about 6 extra proximity switches if somebody wants them.


----------



## pat4gis

AcesFull said:


> I ran a battery of similar tests in every configuration I could think of and could never get anything consistant. Both the proximity switches and laser switches are extremely accurate and consistant. I've decided to go with the lasers myself. I have about 6 extra proximity switches if somebody wants them.


 I am not recalling what the proximity switches are?

I'll take them if you think its reasonable for someone with my skills to setup the contraption needed to hook them up.


----------



## AcesFull

pat4gis said:


> I am not recalling what the proximity switches are?
> 
> I'll take them if you think its reasonable for someone with my skills to setup the contraption needed to hook them up.


The proximity switches are the ones I show pics of testing on one of the prvious pages. really simple devices. Can read through the track easily.

Based on the tests that you conducted, it would seem as you know what you are doing.

As far as the setup is concerned, do you have an LPT port? If so I can send you a schematic as to how to wire, you can see the "guts" to the box I made, pretty easy, as well as the procedure for calibrating them. PM me with your info, I'll send them your way.


----------



## AcesFull

Update: Raced for 4 hrs tonight straight without a single missed lap or any error whatsoever. I'm loving the setup. Time to purchase more track. What is a good source for track? I need to still purchase 56 - 15" straights, 10 - 12" radius 1/8 turns and 9 - 15" radius 1/8 turns.


----------



## Crimnick

Hmmmm...probably sets off E-bay...

The "Big D" set has staights 12" curves and two 18" curves..for around 65 bucks...

The international has a buttload of 6" radius curves

I'll try and find the thread we did up with set contents...


----------



## AcesFull

Crimnick said:


> Hmmmm...probably sets off E-bay...
> 
> The "Big D" set has staights 12" curves and two 18" curves..for around 65 bucks...
> 
> The international has a buttload of 6" radius curves
> 
> I'll try and find the thread we did up with set contents...


I have already purchased 2 international sets. I really do not want another one as I only need the pieces mentioned and don't need all the extra stuff. The extra cars are sure nice though.


----------



## Crimnick

I bought two Internationals, a fuji 4 lane import, four big D sets...and a few carded pieces locally...


----------



## roffutt

If you buy the sets and sell off the cars.. that usually the cheapest option. Assuming you can fetch a decent price for the set cars. I usually just get some nice Jonny Lighting (Now Autoworld) bodies to replace the common set cars bodies. 

-roffutt


----------



## Scafremon

AcesFull said:


> What is a good source for track? I need to still purchase 56 - 15" straights, 10 - 12" radius 1/8 turns and 9 - 15" radius 1/8 turns.


I buy my loose track pieces from Brian at brshobbies.com

Good prices, fast shipping, free shipping (when buying over $50 in merchandise I think) and he is a hobbytalk supporter. :thumbsup:


----------



## AcesFull

Scafremon said:


> I buy my loose track pieces from Brian at brshobbies.com
> 
> Good prices, fast shipping, free shipping (when buying over $50 in merchandise I think) and he is a hobbytalk supporter. :thumbsup:


Thanks, I'll look into it. :thumbsup:


----------



## Crimnick

Aces...I have a bunch of 12' radius curves I'm not going to use....

I could use a couple of terminal tracks for my evil plan...


----------



## AcesFull

Crimnick said:


> Aces...I have a bunch of 12' radius curves I'm not going to use....
> 
> I could use a couple of terminal tracks for my evil plan...


Unforunately, as I learned last night, when using wall warts for power, each lane must have it's own, it seems to make a huge difference. I had to use all 4 power tracks I have to give each lane uninterrupted power. We were having fits, when one car would deslot, the other on that power track would launch down the track. So until I finish building my power supplies and drivers stations I cannot part ways with the power tracks. Sorry.


----------



## Crimnick

Ok...no problem...

I still have plenty of 12" s to send....you can have them for postage if you need them...


----------



## LeeRoy98

Crimnick, I have Tomy 15" terminal track that I would trade for Tomy 15" straights.

Gary
AKA LeeRoy98
www.marioncountyraceway.com


----------



## Crimnick

LeeRoy98 said:


> Crimnick, I have Tomy 15" terminal track that I would trade for Tomy 15" straights.
> 
> Gary
> AKA LeeRoy98
> www.marioncountyraceway.com


Sorry..no spares...


----------



## Franko

Aces, glad you got the timer kinks worked out. Sharing a wall wart can actually be fun to strategize when to let off so you opponent crashes. Takes newbies a long time to figure it out.


----------



## AcesFull

Franko said:


> Aces, glad you got the timer kinks worked out. Sharing a wall wart can actually be fun to strategize when to let off so you opponent crashes. Takes newbies a long time to figure it out.


Well, I'm a newb and it took about 5 minutes of that crap to really piss me off and do something to fix it. I can't wait until I finish my power supplies and driver stations, these wall warts are terrible.


----------



## Crimnick

Track is in the mail


----------



## AcesFull

Crimnick said:


> Track is in the mail



Thanks, I'll get payment to you asap. Unfortunately, I just had a $150 setback in track purchasing due to the rear tail section on my gixxer somehow got cracked in half and needs to be replaced.


----------



## Crimnick

AcesFull said:


> Thanks, I'll get payment to you asap. Unfortunately, I just had a $150 setback in track purchasing due to the rear tail section on my gixxer somehow got cracked in half and needs to be replaced.


I'm almost afraid to ask.... heh heh......what the hell is a gixxer?

No Problem...it was only 7.50...should be there is a couple days...

I'll PM you my Paypal info...


----------



## AcesFull

Crimnick said:


> I'm almost afraid to ask.... heh heh......what the hell is a gixxer?
> 
> No Problem...it was only 7.50...should be there is a couple days...
> 
> I'll PM you my Paypal info...


This is me and my baby(gixxer)


----------



## Crimnick

Ah....last bike was a nighthawk..next one will be a Buell...:thumbsup:


----------



## AcesFull

Crimnick said:


> Ah....last bike was a nighthawk..next one will be a Buell...:thumbsup:


This is my second Suzuki. Couldn't be happier. They seem to be very maintenance freindly which is good because I do all my own work on everything I own. This is my daily driver though, it sees 160 miles/day year round so it's getting old quick, gonna probably get an 08 1K next.


----------



## RiderZ

*!!!*

Today i received the "N" scale reed switches from miniatronics.Man are they tiny-i was thinking they were a little larger than what they are.They look to be VERY fragile.Good thing i ordered 10 of them-may need the extra's.This weekend i'll install them and see how they work.Any installation tips are welcomed!:thumbsup:


----------



## SwamperGene

The most fragile spot is where the leads go into the glass, so I reinforce 'em a bit. Before I start messing with them, I put a small dab of epoxy on each end, coating the bulb tips to about 1/8" or so up the wire. (This is done long before installation and allowed to set up, not just prior to installation)


----------



## RiderZ

*!!!*

Nice tip Gene-guess i'll mix up some of the 6-minute epoxy i have and give it a try.Whats up with the magnets supplied with the reeds.Nice strong set of magnets to use for something!!!:thumbsup:


----------



## Scafremon

Use very small stranded wire to solder to the leads. Solid wire, or larger wire, can easily break the reed glass if the wire puts pressure on the lead, trying to bend or twist it.

After busting a few using the wrong stuff, I went with 22 ga stranded, and it worked well. Gene?


----------



## SwamperGene

Explaination with a pic here.


----------



## AcesFull

*Software?*

Obviously I am currently using Lap Timer 2000 software, but I'm wondering what else is available. I am working on writing a program for myself, but that is gonna take quite a bit of "time", so in the meantime I would like to explore anything else that is out there. I recently found the slotcarillustrated.com forum, which it looks like many of you guys are a part of, and have read a little about Trackmate. Is this a decent program? If so, what port is it interfaced to the computer with? I cannot view their website from work, so I thought I would ask you guys your opinions.


----------



## Scafremon

Aces,

If you do a search in the track building forum, with keywords such as Trakmate, Ultimate Racer, timing, and even just 'software', you will find lots of discussions on lap timing programs. 

Not being a butt here, it's just a fast way to read a lot of opinions on this subject, instead of waiting for people to respond to your new query.

If you find a good thread in your search, you can bump it back to the top, and the discussion can grow further.

Just trying to be helpful.


----------



## AcesFull

Scafremon said:


> Aces,
> 
> If you do a search in the track building forum, with keywords such as Trakmate, Ultimate Racer, timing, and even just 'software', you will find lots of discussions on lap timing programs.
> 
> Not being a butt here, it's just a fast way to read a lot of opinions on this subject, instead of waiting for people to respond to your new query.
> 
> If you find a good thread in your search, you can bump it back to the top, and the discussion can grow further.
> 
> Just trying to be helpful.


I've done alot of searching and reading, but it's still a good idea to get the latest info from those with experience. Most of the stuff i've been finding is a bit old, so I'm just seeking any new info really. I'll continue searching and reading, but I am at work and might actually have to do, well, some work I guess


----------



## RiderZ

*!!!*

Today was the last day of vacation and kinda rainy.I was playing around in the basement doing some maintance on the R/C cars when i came across some reed switches i had bought back in February.I decided to install them and see how they work compared with the IR setup i was currently using.Installation was a breeze although some care was in order with the fragile glass reeds.I hot glued them to the track openings used for the IR detectors.They seem to work about as good as my IR setup-intermittenly.They work great with poly & neo mag cars.I had problems running them with the G3 & SG+ cars with the narrow traction magnets.As you can see from the pics they are pretty close to the track surface but not as close the track rails as i would have liked.I think this is my problem with the narrow magnet cars such as the G3 & SG+.I dont think i can move the reeds without breaking them as they are hot glued to the track.I do have another package of five for the future to change them out.


----------



## AfxToo

I've seen more than a few highly successful reed switch setups and the thing they all had in common was the full switch was exposed and the switch was mounted flush with the top of the track surface.


----------



## SwamperGene

Are they the miniatronics reeds? 

My setup, glued to the bottom of Tomy track, continues to work great...literally thousands and thousands of laps. Stock skinny tire T-Jets to neo.

One thing I do that goes agianst what many other suggest....I glue them in with the reeds perpendicular to the rail:

Rail> |- <Reed

_Not_

Rail>|l <Reed

And of course, the secret nail :thumbsup:


----------



## RiderZ

*!!!*

Yes Gene they are the Miniatronics brand reeds.I thought that by exposing the reed in the LED hole i had drilled would be a sure fire bet.Oh well-pretty typical of my lap counting nightmares!!! I'll play around with them in the future to see if i can get better results.


----------



## RiderZ

*!!!*

Here we are again-Winter is coming so i figured i would tinker around with the LT 2000 system again.I really need to get this figured out for the winter race season.I had one more package of the Miniatronics reed switches.I started fresh with two new 15" straights to mount the reeds in.I drilled a 3/16" hole next to the power rail and ground down the inside bottom of the track section to get the reed as close as possible to the track surface and the rail.I hot melt glued the switches in and soldered the wires to them.As usual it still does not count every lap.I have the reeds mounted in the middle of a 7' straight away.I can get them to count if i slow down over the reeds.Frustrating to say the least!!!!!!!!!!!!:drunk:


----------



## RiderZ

*TrackMate Sytem?*

Enough is enough.I need to just break down and get the TrackMate package.Is this the system in should get? Is this system reliable as everyone says.I guess for $200 it better be.I see one problem with this system and my laptop computer.I do not have a printer/joystick port.I only have USB ports.
http://www.trackmateracing.com/shopexd.asp?id=90


----------



## SwamperGene

Didn't you see my post from 7/8?



> Are they the miniatronics reeds?
> 
> My setup, glued to the bottom of Tomy track, continues to work great...literally thousands and thousands of laps. Stock skinny tire T-Jets to neo.
> 
> *One thing I do that goes agianst what many other suggest....I glue them in with the reeds perpendicular to the rail:*
> 
> Rail> |- <Reed
> 
> _Not_
> 
> Rail>|l <Reed
> 
> And of course, the secret nail :thumbsup:


I've never had consistency mounting them as your picture shows. Looking down at the track surface, you should be looking at the width of the metal reeds, not the edges.

<edited out: thought you said 7" straight>

One another note, as many have found out, reeds don't do well with non-mag mag cars, ala G-Jet and the like. If you run these regularly, reeds are not gonna be an option.


----------



## noddaz

*How about..*

How about turning your reed switches so when the chassis passes over the reed the contacts in the reed are pulled together by the passing magnets.
In other words one contact is pulled up by the magnet into the other contact.
It looks like your contacts are aligned side by side...
I hope this helps...

Scott


----------



## SwamperGene

noddaz said:


> How about turning your reed switches so when the chassis passes over the reed the contacts in the reed are pulled together by the passing magnets.
> In other words one contact is pulled up by the magnet into the other contact.
> It looks like your contacts are aligned side by side...
> I hope this helps...
> 
> Scott


 
This is the point I've been trying to make (See quote in previous post). It also creates a wider footprint for the reed.


----------



## noddaz

*I understand Gene...*

I understand Gene...
Just trying to reinforce it...
BRB...
Scott


----------



## noddaz

*Through the magic of MS Paint I bring you...*

REED SWITCHES!!!

I hope that this shows what Gene (and I ) have been trying to discribe...


----------



## SwamperGene

RiderZ said:


> ...ground down the inside bottom of the track section to get the reed as close as possible to the track surface....


This is good, I do this too, though they've worked without doing it.



RiderZ said:


> ...and the rail.


Maybe not so good, they have to compete with the magnetically stronger rail for flux. I don't take any plastic away here, I put them right against the rail's plastic channel.


----------



## RiderZ

*!!!*

Thanks for the replies everyone.I mounted the reeds the way i did because i read(possibly here) that its possible for the magnet to pull the upper blade away from the lower blade making the switch not work as it should.I can see how that would be possible.I just placed an order for some new reeds and will mount them the way you recomend.If this dont work i will have to plunk down $200 for the Trackmate system.:freak:


----------



## NTxSlotCars

We use infrared eye sensors. Theyre cheap and they work good.


----------



## RiderZ

*!!!*



NTxSlotCars said:


> We use infrared eye sensors. Theyre cheap and they work good.


Not for everyone-Go back & read!!! The infrared sensors have caused me numerous headaches.I'm glad you are able to use them.I will redo the reed switches the way Swamper' recomends and hope for the best.:thumbsup:


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## NTxSlotCars

*Slot Race Manager*

On my track, I use IRs with a 40watt incandecent bulb overhead.










It lights the sensors on both the raod coarse and the oval. Here's a closer look at the sensors.










There were some sensitivity issues, but we worked that out before I layed the track. A friend found these at a local electronics store. It works great, no missed laps or lap times, but then again, we use a different program.










SLOT RACE MANAGER. A friend of mine brought this program over on a floppy disc. Does anyone remember this program or the history about it? It's a DOS program, which is cool because you don't have to wait to shut down your computer in DOS mode. There's a TON of settings for diagnostics and race formats. I have 2 printer cables running under the tracks. To change tracks, I change cables.



















The drawbacks are... no sound effects, except for the little speaker on the CPU board; and you can't upload a piture of the driver, his car, and a theme song. (but, who does that stuff anyway) Other than that, it's a great little program that, I bet, would run fine on a laptop. I wish they made a program for drag racing.

Anyone know the history of this program?

Rich

www.myspace.com/northtexasslotcars :thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## GoodwrenchIntim

I use SRM it was made by a guy in Netherlands I think, his name was Mario, great guy, an it does have sound effects( at least i think it does, been awhile since i raced on my track an used it) not sure why you dont have sound, here is his site http://www.cenobyte.nl/slotracemanager/hoofdframe.html


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## GoodwrenchIntim

anouther tidbit about SRM which is a real shame, he got busy with work an no longer updates this; 
January, 2007


SlotRace Manager 2.40 TEST
This version was still a work in progress when I had to abandone it. Because of this, not all functions fully work. All old routines work though and I use this version myself on my three running tracks for a couple of years now.
This ZIPfile contains version 2.40 of SlotRace Manager, all files are included.


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## Dunk21

will this work for lap timer 2000


computer has usb ports only


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## GoodwrenchIntim

ok you are correct there is no sound, from the site ;
No sound when passing sensor or with fastest lap?

I'm afraid this is no error. The timing routine in SRM has no sound when timing a race or practise session. To reach real 1/1000 second accuracy during timing, SRM speeds up the PC timer. Unfortunately, this prevents sound being used during timing, because the waveforum of every sound is created using the PC timer. When playing a sound, the timer is reset back to it's original speed by the controlling hardware and the timing software freezes. Up until now I haven't found a way around this problem and I doubt there is any.


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## NTxSlotCars

Sure there is. You can use another computer with the Laptimer 2000 set on practice, not connected to the relay. I was gonna mount 6x9s and make it loud. On that note, you could use 2 computers for the sound effects and have stereo!!! I was just thinkin it might work. 

No joke, that could work, with an additional set of sensors at each end of the track. It's just I think the sports car sound is the best one on LT2k.

Rich


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## SwamperGene

For RiderZ, SRM is not an option as he is using a laptop with USB only and XP or Vista (I forget), SRM needs to run in true DOS. I always liked SRM but it has it's quirks, personally I think LT2000 is a better comparable program (no full race management).

One cool thing I learned with SRM was how to tune sensors to ports. I forget if it was in the program or Mario had a link to it, but there was a DOS app where you could wire a pot across your lane wires and find out _exactly _where your port's trigger points were, in other words the resistance threshold that triggers the count. I realized later that you can do the same thing with the program (SRM or LT2000), but that was my turning point to building succesful timer setups that worked when you hook them up....no messing around needed.

RiderZ, it was way back and I can't find it here, but I had a diagram of the 10-penny reed setup. Simply put, for a single two lane piece of track: Reeds next to both inboard rail channels, flat faces up/down. Dremel or dig a spot about half the thickness of track surface for that extra hair of "closeness" to the surface. A quick word about reed prep...before handling, put a dab of gel superglue on the ends of the glass tube where the wires protrude for some added strain relief....solder your wires about 1/4" from the tube then cut off the extra leads as the reed's wires are magnetic and can cause screwy counts (early or late). I also solder a 100 ohm resistor in series with each reed to prevent a total short which some PC ports may not like. Hold them against the track with light pressure then glue the ends...you don't want glue getting under them. After they're set you can add some more if you want. Next, and this is a biggie...grab a good ole 10d nail and whack the head off. Glue it lengthwise to the middle of the track and centered on the reed centers (your start/finish line). This acts as a flux collector and will prevent stronger mag cars from triggering the adjacent lanes of these super sensitive reeds (which will count a bone stock original T-Jet). Every setup I've done like this works and works very well. Take your time, do it neatly, and you should have no problems with any program...unless you run non-mag mag cars which don't play nice with reeds. If you have problems after this, I would say that dongle/USB setup just plain ain't gonna do it, and may not with TrackMate either.

Over 10,000 laps served.


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## SwamperGene

Dunk21 I see where you're heading, a USB to Parallel port adapter would work...but the photo in your pic shows a USB to Parallel Printer adapter, which is a different animal. You want a female 25-pin connector on the end of the adapter, not a centronics end as the photo shows.

Keep in mind though, USB adapters are a crap shoot for our purposes as they are emulated ports and work through a software layer (driver)....this _can_ create problems.


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## NTxSlotCars

RiderZ,
Either way, I hope you get it solved. Lap counters are fun on any format. Heck, we used to saw a leg off of the AFX 50lap counters, and hot glue them to the track! Nothing beats that one lap drag race we used to do though.

Rich


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## Mike(^RacerX^)

SwamperGene said:


> Dunk21 I see where you're heading, a USB to Parallel port adapter would work...but the photo in your pic shows a USB to Parallel Printer adapter, which is a different animal. You want a female 25-pin connector on the end of the adapter, not a centronics end as the photo shows.
> 
> Keep in mind though, USB adapters are a crap shoot for our purposes as they are emulated ports and work through a software layer (driver)....this _can_ create problems.


I did sensors.then reed switches,dead strips.Nothing worked 100%.

The I went from USB to a game port setup,along with the sensors and a light bridge with red LEDs shining from above,and I have yet to miss a lap.

I never thought to look into the USB and it was the culprit the whole time.

Mike


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## Dunk21

so insted of the usb one it needs to be a 25 pin and it will work?


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## Mike(^RacerX^)

Dunk21 said:


> so insted of the usb one it needs to be a 25 pin and it will work?



If I had to do it again,I would use either the 25 pin cable or the 9(??)pin game controller cable.

Mike


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## SwamperGene

Dunk21 you need something like this: 

http://www.amazon.com/Dekcell-CPA-1029-Parallel-Printer-Adapter/dp/B000K04SB2

I'm not gonna recommend one brand or another, it really is a crap shoot IMO.

Mike, LPT is the way to go with LT2000. This is the only option that allows the software to control the track power for precisely timed race heats. Think about this for a moment...at lap times of 4-5 seconds or so, there is just no way you can fairly race across lanes with any kind of manual timer. Not only is there gonna be a +/- margin from human error every time the timer is set, driver reaction time to a "stop" or "go" signal will always vary. At high speeds, a "couple seconds" from either of these seemingly little problems can equate to half a lap or more. When the program controls it, it starts and cuts the power at your setting every time, no questions about it. It really is cool.

I like what Greg has provided the slot community and ain't bashing him at all, but for the life of me I can't understand why he continually suggests people use a game or serial port, neither of which support power control. 

:freak:


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## RiderZ

*!!!*

I guess i'm SOL with using the laptop for my lap counting needs.With the laptop only have USB connections i'm very limited to options.


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## TEAM D.V.S.

*pc*

here is a thought just buy a old pc or have someone give you a dinosaur pc , download trackmate DOS for free and install it. use your infrared sensors and cable that you already have and all your problems will be gone! :thumbsup:


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## Mike(^RacerX^)

SwamperGene said:


> Dunk21 you need something like this:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Dekcell-CPA-1029-Parallel-Printer-Adapter/dp/B000K04SB2
> 
> I'm not gonna recommend one brand or another, it really is a crap shoot IMO.
> 
> Mike, LPT is the way to go with LT2000. This is the only option that allows the software to control the track power for precisely timed race heats. Think about this for a moment...at lap times of 4-5 seconds or so, there is just no way you can fairly race across lanes with any kind of manual timer. Not only is there gonna be a +/- margin from human error every time the timer is set, driver reaction time to a "stop" or "go" signal will always vary. At high speeds, a "couple seconds" from either of these seemingly little problems can equate to half a lap or more. When the program controls it, it starts and cuts the power at your setting every time, no questions about it. It really is cool.
> 
> I like what Greg has provided the slot community and ain't bashing him at all, but for the life of me I can't understand why he continually suggests people use a game or serial port, neither of which support power control.
> 
> :freak:


Gene I now see your point.

I guess all said and done,99% of the time its me down here drinking black coffee until the wee hours of the morning and playing beat the clock with different arms I wind or cars I tune.

Tho down the road,possibly in the near future,Id like to put out an APB and see if any slot car guys within an hour of me would like to start some kind of "official" club for racing on home tracks.

Then I would probably have to switch to the other port method.

Mike


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## wm_brant

Guys --

I'm coming really late to this party, I know, but there is an interesting link that I would like to share. It's hosted on the HO World site

It's an article about HO lap counting triggers by Steve Medanic. He compares and contrasts optical, dead strips, and reed switch triggers. His basic conclusion is that any of these triggers can work if installed correctly, but that he's also seen all of them not work, too. He talks about the strengths and weaknesses of each.

It's well worth a read...

-- Bill

Comparing Lap Counter Activators


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## AfxToo

> His basic conclusion is that any of these triggers can work if installed correctly


I totally agree. I also agree with Steve's assertion that you get what you pay for, whether payment is in the form of buying a nearly turnkey system like TrackMate or building your own from a collection of off the shelf hardware and software components and putting in the time and effort to tweak and tune the system to perform reliably.

In my mind the benefits that a quality race management system delivers far outweighs the initial acquisition cost of a professionally designed and constructed system. Having your own slot car track is a very enjoyable thing. Having a pro quality race management system attached to your slot car track multiplies the enjoyment level many times over, even if you are just racing the clock. If you have a significant investment in the hobby, and if you get a big kick out of running or racing slot cars, don't scrimp on the race management system.


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## RiderZ

*!!!*

Well i just got done installing the new reed switches the way 'Swamper suggested.It still does not click off every lap.It is a little more reliable but it does still miss laps.It works great with the slower cars but not so great with SG+'s-G3's and the like.It did well with the Wizzard poly mag cars though.I think the stronger the magnet the better with the reeds.I had good results with the LifeLike "M" chassis.Very frustrating!!!


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## SwamperGene

RiderZ said:


> Well i just got done installing the new reed switches the way 'Swamper suggested.It still does not click off every lap.It is a little more reliable but it does still miss laps.It works great with the slower cars but not so great with SG+'s-G3's and the like.It did well with the Wizzard poly mag cars though.I think the stronger the magnet the better with the reeds.I had good results with the LifeLike "M" chassis.Very frustrating!!!


Did you check to see what your minimum lap time is set to in the program? If it's set to 3000 ms for example, a 2.999 lap wouldn't count.


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## SwamperGene

Actually, here's a quick screencap to help explain.

First, as I said, check the "Debounce" setting (same a s Min. Lap Time). For testing set to 1000 (1 second).

If that doesn't cure it, try inverting the switch logic. Try it checked and unchecked, closing and restarting LT each time you change it.

Lastly, try changing the timer resolution. Again, restart LT each time, even if it doesn't tell you to.


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## RiderZ

*!!!*

Hey Gene-I've played with the settings in the past but never messed with them tonigh.I'll tinker around with the settings tomarrow.An average lap time on my track is about 3.5 to 3.4 seconds with my faster cars.What should my settings be for those lap times??? Again Gene thanks for all your help with this.:thumbsup:


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## SwamperGene

RiderZ said:


> Hey Gene-I've played with the settings in the past but never messed with them tonigh.I'll tinker around with the settings tomarrow.An average lap time on my track is about 3.5 to 3.4 seconds with my faster cars.What should my settings be for those lap times??? Again Gene thanks for all your help with this.:thumbsup:


Anytime RiderZ, I hope this setup pans out this time.

The debounce setting is there for what it says, compensating for bounce (mechanical or electrical) in the switches or sensors. Usually this is fine at 1 second, 1.5 at most, if it wasn't I use different switches. I think the default is 3000ms if I remember right. 

The cool thing about this setting is that you can use it to avoid counting a "rider" during a race. We set this number on a per-race basis based on class. All you do is set it a bit lower than the "track record" for that class. This will generally prevent a rider from triggering a lap in a wrong lane, as the rider will usually be on a different part of the track thus creating a faster false time in the "jumped to" lane. Simply put, if your best lap time is 3.5, you set the debounce timer to 3000. Simply put, the software says "after you trigger a lap, I'm gonna take a three second breather before I start counting again." The half second below hot lap cushion gives a little room for the always possible new record.

I had a though about the Super G's though. A couple races back we had one (belonged to wheelszk) that would not count on any lane. All stock...it drove us nuts.

Turns out the traction mags were oddly "disoriented", the flux lines were actually passing diagonally through the mags, ie the corners of the mags were the strong spots. Very weird. :freak:


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## NTxSlotCars

TEAM D.V.S. said:


> here is a thought just buy a old pc or have someone give you a dinosaur pc , download trackmate DOS for free and install it. use your infrared sensors and cable that you already have and all your problems will be gone! :thumbsup:


So, where do you download the DOS version? All I see available for download on his site is Windows versions. He talks about a DOS version, but I don't see it available. IF you have an older or different page for that, please post the link.

Thanks,
Rich


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## RiderZ

*!!!*

Been playin' around with the settings 'Swamper to no prevail.I either need to purchase the TrackMate system or find an old computer to try my current setup on.


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## coach61

RiderZ said:


> Been playin' around with the settings 'Swamper to no prevail.I either need to purchase the TrackMate system or find an old computer to try my current setup on.


I have 3 systems in the garage mate.. pick em up and they are yours..I even have old dos disks around somewhere.. all PII's at least...


Coach!


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## RiderZ

*!!!*

I appreciate the offer coach.Your in Texas-and i'm in Illinois.:thumbsup:


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## coach61

RiderZ said:


> I appreciate the offer coach.Your in Texas-and i'm in Illinois.:thumbsup:


bah its only a 20 hr drive...each way....


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## RiderZ

*!!!*

I just bit the bullet and purchased the full 4 lane system from TrackMate.I'll post the results when its up & running.If this system dont count laps for me I will sell all of my HO stuff and go SCX Digital 1/32!!!


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