# TOS shuttlecraft's colour???



## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

Here's a question pertinent to the planned R2 1/32 scale TOS shuttlecraft as well as my current 3D shuttlecraft build.

What is the shuttlecraft's real colour? Is it the same light grey overall or is it a two-tone grey with a darker tone on the bottom section and nacelles and a lighter tone over the rest of it?

The full-size mockup seems painted one way and the miniature seems painted in two-tone.

So which is it as both can't be true? Or can they?

Opinions...


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## Fozzie (May 25, 2009)

I think arguments can be made for both paint schemes since both appeared on screen. Personally, the two-tone scheme is a lot more pleasing to my eye.


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## kenlee (Feb 11, 2010)

This image seems to indicate that the full size mock-up was painted all one color.










As does this one, the two tone appearance seems to be a trick of the lighting.










Even the filming miniature as used in Nest Generation seems to be all one color:










Even a blue screen shot from the original series seems to indicate only one color gray was used:


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

I personally like to play tricks with paint to simulate lighting- I'd go with slight variations between the upper & lower hull!:thumbsup:


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## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

I've also come to think it was a trick of lighting although I wouldn't be averse to the bottom and nacelles being a slightly darker tone.


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## idman (Apr 11, 2004)

if you look at screencaps of the Immunity syndrome where spock enters the shuttle bay and into the Galileo it has a two tone paint job


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

Both the full-size prop and the miniature were finished in two-tone greys. That first pic in post #3 is not the original paint job, but rather the first 'restored' paint job, which appeared to be one color.

The rear shot of the shuttlecraft miniature does not show the lower hull bottom and sides, as well as the pods, which were the darker grey, the top hull and rear inside surfaces being painted the lighter grey.


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## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

The painting on the miniature looks more obvious while the painting on the full-size mock-up looks more nicely subtle.


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## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

For several years, during the 70's, I lived a few blocks down from the temporary "parking" spot of the full-scale mock-up. 










Although it’s kinda hard to tell from this pre-restoration image, you can take it from me that the shuttle paint scheme was, in fact, two-tone.

A couple years back, when I was working on my Randy Cooper Galileo model, I did some research into the shuttle colors. Looooong story short, with Gary Kerr's help, I came to the conclusion that the following Tamiya rattle-can colors were a very close (if not exact) match to both the mock-up and the FX miniature:

Upper hull: Tamiya AS20 Insignia White

Lower hull: Tamiya AS26 Light Ghost Grey 










This is by no means definitive… but as far as I was able to determine it’s pretty darned close.

FWIW…


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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

Any more pictures of the mockup?


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## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

Carson Dyle said:


> For several years, during the 70's, I lived a few blocks down from the temporary "parking" spot of the full-scale mock-up.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks! This is the closest I've come to in terms of authenticity.. Awesome!


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Wow. It NEVER looked white to me. Hm.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

kenlee said:


>


The key seems to be to compare the nacelle struts to the hull bottom. Quite a bit of contrast there. The nacelle itself has always looked a little darker than the bottom of the hull, though that may be due to lighting as well.


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

Carson Dyle said:


> For several years, during the 70's, I lived a few blocks down from the temporary "parking" spot of the full-scale mock-up.


Carson, that is one of the coolest things I can imagine, and I love that photo!!


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

The only difference between these two shots seems to be the difference in lighting. The brighter lights in the first screen cap seem to wash out the difference in the paint job a little bit:


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## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

John P said:


> Wow. It NEVER looked white to me. Hm.


Well, “Insignia White” is just Tamiya’s way of saying “Camouflage Grey.”



Captain April said:


> Any more pictures of the mockup?


I wish.

I was in Middle School when the shot above was taken, and not very good at archiving photos. We took lots of pix back in the day (int. and ext.) but sadly this is the only one that survives.

The mock-up was thrashed even then -- so much so that it’s hard to imagine there being much of the original left in the current, semi-restored incarnation.


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## paustin0816 (Nov 8, 2006)

Carson Dyle said:


> Well, “Insignia White” is just Tamiya’s way of saying “Camouflage Grey.”
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thats a shame. Awesome pictures though, I bet you've got some great memories.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Carson Dyle said:


> Well, “Insignia White” is just Tamiya’s way of saying “Camouflage Grey.”


Well heck, there's a big difference between insignia white and camo gray in MY mind.


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## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

Well, I could see it as a very light grey bordering on white.


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## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

John P said:


> Well heck, there's a big difference between insignia white and camo gray in MY mind.


Sorry, I should have clarified my remark.

For a long time, during the early-mid 70’s, Testors Camoflage Grey was sort of the “go to” shade for many TOS Enterprise modelers simply because it was the lightest, most Enterprise-like shade of grey commonly available in a hobby-paint rattle-can.

It’s been a long time since I’ve used Testors Camo, but I recall, perhaps mistakenly, it being rather similar to Tamiya Insignia White (which is a long way from being a true white). 

Although we’ll probably never know for certain, I think there’s a strong possibility that the upper hull of the shuttle miniature was given the same grey base coat as the Enterprise miniature(s). This was Gary Kerr’s theory anyway. That being the case, if one is really striving for accuracy, it would seem to me the best alternative would be to create a custom mix based on Gary’s Fed Standard “Enterprise Hull” formula (which has been posted on HobbyTalk a few times; search Gary’s posts and you’ll happen upon it eventually. It’s the shade Master Replicas used on their 1/350 Enterprise, based on info originally gleaned from Richard Datin).

Another thing we’ll never know for certain is whether or not the full-scale shuttle mock-up was painted the same shade(s) of grey as the FX miniature. For this reason, I feel safe in saying the modeler has a certain degree of latitude in terms of determining a shade that “looks right.” As has been pointed out many times here and elsewhere, the same shade of grey can and will look different from one instant to the next depending on ambient lighting conditions. 

What is certain is that the upper hull was a “light grey,” and the lower hull was a “medium grey.”


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## Mr. Wabac (Nov 9, 2002)

Carson Dyle said:


> Well, “Insignia White” is just Tamiya’s way of saying “Camouflage Grey.”
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Great topic - the studio lighting sure plays tricks with your eyes. In one photo it looks almost as if three colours are used, one shade for the upper surface, another for the door and nacelle mounts and a third for the engines. The next picture seems to show it is a two-colour scheme.

Too bad about the lost pictures - looks like there is a lock on the shuttle doors in your only picture.

BTW, the proper phrase for your comment should have been "that which survives" :tongue:


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## Chrisisall (May 12, 2011)

Mr. Wabac said:


> Too bad about the lost pictures - looks like there is a lock on the shuttle doors in your only picture.


That was to keep HIM out of the damn thing!!!:jest:


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## Steve H (Feb 8, 2009)

The shuttlecraft sure does look two-tone to me, but then again Jeffries played around with light so much in his designs, so much was done with gels and scrims, I'm just not sure how much to trust my eyes! 

Years back had one told me the Klingon battlecruiser was two tones of green I would have called you a bald faced liar and maybe thrown something. 

But I do have a thought. I don't think the Galileo graphic is supposed to be on the starboard side. I think, based on other traditions and the design of the graphic, it's meant to be only on the front and the port side. Have we any actual photos of the model or the prop from the stbd. side?

It just doesn't LOOK right and I can't help but feel that if the deco was meant to be applied in a symmetrical manner it wouldn't have been designed so...'handed'.

OTOH, it may be simply a case of "we're not thinking about that because we're never going to see that far side because all the action and interesting visual stuff is forward, port and aft", but of course that gives rise to the question: if the name is meant to be an official call sign and not a 'nickname' why isn't it on the back with the other data? Blah blah so what big deal.


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## Nova Designs (Oct 10, 2000)

I would've begged and nagged and cried and pleaded for my parents to buy me that shuttle had I known where it was!


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## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

Nova Designs said:


> I would've begged and nagged and cried and pleaded for my parents to buy me that shuttle had I known where it was!


LOL, you have NO idea. If my dad had had a place to store the thing I _might_ have been able to talk him into it.

The shuttle's owner at the time was the first guy I ever encountered who produced his own fan-made Star Trek prop replicas. Although pretty inaccurate by today's internet-informed standards, they seemed utterly amazing to me back in the early 70's.

Yes, the side door of the shuttle was pad-locked, but one could still crawl inside via the square-shaped opening in back. As president of my middle-school's "Star Trek Club" I (with the owner's permission) led history's first Shuttlecraft Galileo Restoration effort, which basically entailed sweeping out the interior, clearing it of leaves, twigs, cobwebs, beer bottles, etc. After we'd gotten to know the owner somewhat he let us hang out inside the shuttle on a semi-regular basis after school (our visits were usually pretty short though, because it was awfully dark, cramped, hot, musty, and generally uncomfortable in there).

I know some Trek fans don't "get" the appeal of the TOS Galileo, but for me it's always been a kind of personal thing. Much as I appreciate the Raymond Lowey-esque design for its own sake, growing up with the shuttle in my own neighborhood really was an indelible part of my childhood. For a brief time during the early-mid 70's the Galileo served as a sort of informal club house to me and my geeky friends -- which is one of the reasons I'm really looking forward to FINALLY having an "accurate" model of the subject.


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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

A number of pictures of the Galileo rotting away in that storage yard show that it was, indeed, finished on all sides, "Galileo" markings and all.


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## Bobj812 (Jun 15, 2009)

Carson Dyle said:


> I know some Trek fans don't "get" the appeal of the TOS Galileo, but for me it's always been a kind of personal thing. Much as I appreciate the Raymond Lowey-esque design for its own sake, growing up with the shuttle in my own neighborhood really was an indelible part of my childhood. For a brief time during the early-mid 70's the Galileo served as a sort of informal club house to me and my geeky friends -- which is one of the reasons I'm really looking forward to FINALLY having an "accurate" model of the subject.


When I was a kid, I loved the Shuttlecraft way more than the _Enterprise_ even - and I loved that a lot. Don't know why, but I always just loved the look of it. Really looking forward to the new kit.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Carson Dyle said:


> This was Gary Kerr’s theory anyway. That being the case, if one is really striving for accuracy, it would seem to me the best alternative would be to create a custom mix based on Gary’s Fed Standard “Enterprise Hull” formula (which has been posted on HobbyTalk a few times; search Gary’s posts and you’ll happen upon it eventually. It’s the shade Master Replicas used on their 1/350 Enterprise, based on info originally gleaned from Richard Datin).


Found this: http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=59252&page=2


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

See, I was just using some ModelMaster insignia white the other day. I'm pretty sure it's called insignia white because it's the bright, pure white that one would use on an aircraft insignia, like the stars and bars on a pre-lo-vis USAF fighter.

Hence my :freak: moment there.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

John P said:


> See, I was just using some ModelMaster insignia white the other day. I'm pretty sure it's called insignia white because it's the bright, pure white that one would use on an aircraft insignia, like the stars and bars on a pre-lo-vis USAF fighter.
> 
> Hence my :freak: moment there.


Yeah, I've used MM insignia white, too and always thought the same thing.


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## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

Well, I don't know from ModelMaster Insignia White, but Tamiya Insignia White is anything but "bright, pure white"...


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

That's... not white. :lol:
Somebody at Tamiya needs a color wheel.


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## johnF (Aug 31, 2010)

As for a slightly off-white color, you may want to consider Model Master’s Schnellbootweiss.
At first glance it appears to be white, but actually has a hint of gray to it.
This is an acrylic paint (4262) that sprays pretty good out of an airbrush. 

John F


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## Fozzie (May 25, 2009)

Carson Dyle said:


> Well, I don't know from ModelMaster Insignia White, but Tamiya Insignia White is anything but "bright, pure white"...


I use this color A LOT. It has been my hull color on several 1:1000 scale starship builds.


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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

I was always under the impression that it was the same color overall and that any two-tone look was because of the lighting and the shape of the hull.

Upon further review, however, and digging through my photobucket.com files, I ran across this little jewel...










So that settles that. Two-tone it is.


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## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

When you really look at the pics it's definitely two-tone, but the contrast isn't as stark on the mock-up as it appears to be on the miniature. So the bottom and nacelles are only a bit darker.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

johnF said:


> As for a slightly off-white color, you may want to consider Model Master’s Schnellbootweiss.
> At first glance it appears to be white, but actually has a hint of gray to it.
> This is an acrylic paint (4262) that sprays pretty good out of an airbrush.
> 
> John F


Also Model Master "Light Gray." I use it for excelsior and TMP-era ships. It also appears white, until you hold white next to it.


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