# T-Jets Aramatures



## dtomol (Mar 30, 2005)

Has anyone ever tried to make different laminations for the T-jet armature? What I mean is the following the widest part near the magnets making it larger will that increase the magnetic field? Also does anyone have a fell for how much adding extra laminations to the armatures increase the power by how much. Example how much more power full is a Three lam Auto world arm than the aurora two lam. Same with the Quadram Lam & the special five laminations that some people are making.:wave:


----------



## Ralphthe3rd (Feb 24, 2011)

My '02¢..... I've tried single lams at the way to Quads, and even toy'd with a 5 lam as well. The secret is in the windings and wire size. As far as AW/JL 3 lams, they are no better than a Good old Aurora Mean Green double lam ! As a matter of fact, if you compare apples to apples, and remove any Ultra-G AW T-Jet neo traction magnets, then, ALL My Mean Green Original Aurora Tuffies- will SMOKE any JL/AW Tuffy !
By all means shim loose magnets, to get the full effect of their magnetic field, but going to a larger diameter lam arm, is kinda pointless, unless you are looking for all out speed like Scrig with his .3sec> 1/4 mile- 70 mph T-Jets !


----------



## Dyno (Jan 26, 2009)

Ralphthe3rd said:


> As a matter of fact, if you compare apples to apples, and remove any Ultra-G AW T-Jet neo traction magnets, then, ALL My Mean Green Original Aurora Tuffies- will SMOKE any JL/AW Tuffy !


How is that an apples to apples comparison? A mean green is 6 ohms, the average AW Tuffy arm is 14.5 ohms. In the same chassis the mean green should win all the time unless its a very short track with lots of curves.


----------



## Ralphthe3rd (Feb 24, 2011)

*ah huh...yeah right !*



Dyno said:


> How is that an apples to apples comparison? A mean green is 6 ohms, the average AW Tuffy arm is 14.5 ohms. In the same chassis the mean green should win all the time unless its a very short track with lots of curves.


Excuse me, the JL/AW is a Tuffy copy, albeit uses much stronger magnets. And in this case, the ohm rating is not the tell all. The aurora Mean Green was only a Double lam arm, while the JL/AW is a triple lam arm. Ya know the FRAY cars are running high ohm arms, and the ones they use are Rockets. So just because JL/AW used 14.5 ohm arms, doesn't mean they were slow arms, it's just the way they were wound, to allow them to compete in sanctioned national races that don't allow low (6ohm) arms.


----------



## Boosted-Z71 (Nov 26, 2007)

One of the big issues I have found with the new JL arms is that the com plate, if straight is generally poorly attached, most were not even close to being flat, and the arms are not in balance.

We built 15 spec cars with the local kids to race that were similar to a fray car, but used all JL parts to keep the cost down. Some ran pretty good, others were Dogs, the reason was either the com plate or arm shaft not straight or loose, or the cluster gear in the plate was so bad it bound up the car, we had a couple that smoked arms because of this. 

I have not seen a JL arm that ran as good as a mean green in a good chassis, but for the $ the JL's are close, especially for a daily runner.

Boosted


----------



## Dyno (Jan 26, 2009)

Ralph, I was agreeing with what you said. The Mean green will win. I was just saying it wasn't apples to apples because they are two totally different types of armatures, but I was assuming you meant apples to apples armatures but reading it again I'm seeing it as apples to apples with no traction magnets.


----------



## cwbam (Feb 8, 2010)

With stock armatures, here's a website (keep refreshing)

http://slotmonsters.com/slot-car-afx-magna-traction-pancake-motor-armatures.ashx

Does anybody have any other websites?


----------



## Dyno (Jan 26, 2009)

Boosted-Z71 said:


> I have not seen a JL arm that ran as good as a mean green in a good chassis, but for the $ the JL's are close, especially for a daily runner.
> 
> Boosted


I am a huge fan of the AW cars. They are hit or miss on build quality though. With a few simple mods you can run head to head with a Tyco 440x2 if you wanted to. I like running them stock with Fray axles and tires all the way up to braided traction magnet rockets. I've never melted an AW motor but I have had an arm spin the shaft loose. I've even rewound a few, but you must solder the shafts in and the com plates wear out pretty quickly.


----------



## Boosted-Z71 (Nov 26, 2007)

Dyno I have had good luck using the high temp loctite on the armature shafts, just a drop, and use super glue on all the com plates to secure them after you straighten them. I also coat the windings with a thin coat of clear nail polish. They seem to be pretty bullet proof after the above mentioned tweaks. 

Boosted


----------



## Dyno (Jan 26, 2009)

Boosted-Z71 said:


> Dyno I have had good luck using the high temp loctite on the armature shafts, just a drop, and use super glue on all the com plates to secure them after you straighten them. I also coat the windings with a thin coat of clear nail polish. They seem to be pretty bullet proof after the above mentioned tweaks.
> 
> Boosted


Yes, I have even superglued a stock shaft that came loose with success but the ones I rewound are too strong for that. I never tried loctite though. Gonna have to try that. I have a rewound mean green downstairs with a spun shaft that I might be able resurrect.


----------



## Boosted-Z71 (Nov 26, 2007)

Yes, the loctite is a simpler solution and you dont have to put heat into the shaft or stack, I have soldered many, but really hate to have to put that much heat into one when the stack / shaft comes loose, especially an arm that ran good. I have had better luck with the red "retaining compound" will try to find the bottle and get you a number. 

Boosted


----------



## slotking (May 27, 2008)

the green loctite is stronger than the red if I remember right.

It also designed for cylindrical binding.

I use to to keep my pinion gear on my 6mag inline unlimited cars.
got 4 neo mags holding the car to the track, and about 1/2ohm arm.

I have put a pinion on 5 minutes before a race, and had no problems with slippage.


----------



## dtomol (Mar 30, 2005)

*Tjet aramatures*

I know that the wind type of wires and the number of turns makes the most difference. My question is the folowing how much differece does the number of laminatin make. Say the same wind on a two lamination versus a three lamination & finally a four lamination aramatuer. I am assuming that the four lamination will make the most power with the same wind as a two or three lamination. Can anyone confirm this?


----------



## Dyno (Jan 26, 2009)

dtomol said:


> I know that the wind type of wires and the number of turns makes the most difference. My question is the folowing how much differece does the number of laminatin make. Say the same wind on a two lamination versus a three lamination & finally a four lamination aramatuer. I am assuming that the four lamination will make the most power with the same wind as a two or three lamination. Can anyone confirm this?


I'm pretty sure that I read somewhere that a 4 lamination motor makes 20 percent more power than a 2 lamination motor given the same winding and matching magnets. I suppose with more laminations the armature is able to create a bigger magnetic field do to the fact there is more metal to magnetize. I'm pretty sure Mr Scrig can be more specific with the facts.


----------



## tjetracer (Mar 20, 2003)

Actually there might be a little less metal with the extra lams. The extra lams don't make any more power. They reduce the amount of eddy current losses resulting in more power available. As the arm rotates through the fields the field induces currents in the lams. By reducing the thickness of the lams you trap these currents into smaller section effectively reducing the energy it takes to induce those currents. I know there is a lot more to it than that but if the quality of the lam material is the same the motor will be better the more lams you have, up to a point. Heard that the lams in a JL weren't up to the quality of an Aurora so even having three may not be as good as an Aurora with two.


----------



## Boosted-Z71 (Nov 26, 2007)

Dyno, the Loctite numbers are 620 & 638, both seem to work very well on a loose shaft, I have not had one come loose after the specified dry time

Boosted


----------



## Dyno (Jan 26, 2009)

Thanks, I will give that a try.


----------



## tjetsgrig (Nov 1, 2009)

tjetracer said:


> Actually there might be a little less metal with the extra lams. The extra lams don't make any more power. They reduce the amount of eddy current losses resulting in more power available. As the arm rotates through the fields the field induces currents in the lams. By reducing the thickness of the lams you trap these currents into smaller section effectively reducing the energy it takes to induce those currents. I know there is a lot more to it than that but if the quality of the lam material is the same the motor will be better the more lams you have, up to a point. Heard that the lams in a JL weren't up to the quality of an Aurora so even having three may not be as good as an Aurora with two.


This is a good explanation. Also, dont forget yer adding mass, but you get a cleaner electro-magnetic field. While adding speed, your major benefit will be gobs more torque, great for the drag racer, add to that advanced timing and thats where your top end comes in!

JS


----------



## swamibob (Jan 20, 2009)

Hmmm... You guys lost me at "Lam"... mmmmm Lamb... 

Tom


----------



## Bill Hall (Jan 6, 2007)

swamibob said:


> Hmmm... You guys lost me at "Lam"... mmmmm Lamb...
> 
> Tom


By golly, the green wire looks like mint jelly on my lams


----------

