# What color did you paint your 1/350 TOS Enterprise



## ClubTepes

The purpose of this thread is to help others decide what colors to paint their PL 1/350 TOS Enterprise.
There are so many threads by people building their kits, that hopefully this will consolidate the painting end of things.

Let me get this straight - this thread is NOT to diminish from Gary's research on the ACTUAL colors of the filming miniature. 

But rather to explore all the colors that people have painted their own kits based on how the Enterprise looked to them onscreen or how they think it should look.

Most people know, that colors painted onto a studio model, don't translate exactly to the big or small screen due to the various filming processes. 

So with all that said. I encourage people to post pictures of their model with a description of their paints used and any relevant process.

I would also ask that people who haven't painted theirs yet - refrain from what your 'going' to use until you have an example to show.

The best way to get the 'truest' representation of your color, is to use (or take) a picture of your model that was either taken outdoors or taken close to a window without other lighting influences affecting the color.

Also, your model also doesn't have to be the 1/350 kit. Any scale kit can be used to illustrate your color. 

I admit that I am at a bit of a quandary about what color I plan to use on mine and perhaps this thread will help me and hopefully others.


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## Proper2

The PL website for the 1:350 provides a chart of the recommended colors. I have not built the kit so I don't know how "accurate" or desirable these colors are but have you tested the hull color recommended therein?


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## Fozzie

I was looking for a color on the lighter side, since the _Enterprise _was always "light grey" to my eyes. I experimented on the pilot version of the B/C deck. This is the color I am going with (see photo):










I took this test all the way through the decals.

Krylon flat black (1 coat)
Krylon white primer (2 coats)
Model Master Lt Grey acrylic (2 coats)
Future (1 coat)
Decals with Micro Sol 
Model Master Flat Clear Acrylic (1 coat)

I may end up having to do two coats of black, depending upon how the light blocking looks, however, in my tests, one coat did the job.


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## Proper2

The Enterprise always looked almost white to me in the original episodes. But, I'd still want to match the "official" studio grey color since I like to think of the model as an authentic looking prop. The color of my Master Replicas Enterprise looked a little darker than expected when I fist saw her but I've gotten used to it and it looks "right" to me now.


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## JGG1701

Don't know if this has been asked since there are so many threads but, what can us ''rattle can'' guys use and what can we use to seal the paint and decals?
-Jim


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## ClubTepes

Proper2 said:


> The PL website for the 1:350 provides a chart of the recommended colors. I have not built the kit so I don't know how "accurate" or desirable these colors are but have you tested the hull color recommended therein?


Thanks Proper,

But in case you weren't aware already, I worked on the kit.
You can find my name in the instructions.

The recommended colors are based on Gary Kerr's research of the original 11 foot studio model.

The purpose of this thread is to see what other colors people used to to achieve a more 'on screen' look or their own preferred color.


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## ClubTepes

Fozzie said:


> I was looking for a color on the lighter side, since the _Enterprise _was always "light grey" to my eyes. I experimented on the pilot version of the B/C deck. This is the color I am going with (see photo):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I took this test all the way through the decals.
> 
> Krylon flat black (1 coat)
> Krylon white primer (2 coats)
> Model Master Lt Grey acrylic (2 coats)
> Future (1 coat)
> Decals with Micro Sol
> Model Master Flat Clear Acrylic (1 coat)
> 
> I may end up having to do two coats of black, depending upon how the light blocking looks, however, in my tests, one coat did the job.


Fozz,

Great idea using the B/C deck part.
Love the fact that you took it all the way thru the decaling.
Looks good.


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## Vaderman

When I built my 1/350 TOS E vacuform kit (AW Studios), I used the Tamiya JN Gray lightened slightly with some drops of white. I think it turned out great.

http://tk386.com/aws/enterprise_finished/

Scott


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## Fozzie

ClubTepes said:


> Fozz,
> 
> Great idea using the B/C deck part.
> Love the fact that you took it all the way thru the decaling.
> Looks good.


I am using a lot of the extra parts to help me with the painting. For instance, I'm going to put the black lower dome in during all the painting, then pop it out and replace it with the white one when I'm done. A lot easier than trying to mask it off. Gonna do the same for the bridge dome and the external lights on the top of the saucer.

I did the test painting while I was waiting for the light kit to arrive.


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## swhite228

Planning on using the can of Shady Cove I got at Ace.


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## enterprise_fan

The color guide on the box says that the overall hull color is Tamiya J.N. Gray 81312 XF-12. The only two hobby shops in my area that I get my supplies from only have the paint in small bottles. I have only used Testors Model Masters in the past and use the paint + thinner (3:2 or 3:1) for mixtures. Do I need to thin the Tamiya paint for air brush, if so with what and how much?


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## Trekkriffic

swhite228 said:


> Planning on using the can of Shady Cove I got at Ace.


Yep. Got a can of that myself. Wish it came in flat finish. The gloss takes a week to fully cure. Oh well, no rush with this baby.


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## Vaderman

enterprise_fan said:


> The color guide on the box says that the overall hull color is Tamiya J.N. Gray 81312 XF-12. The only two hobby shops in my area that I get my supplies from only have the paint in small bottles. I have only used Testors Model Masters in the past and use the paint + thinner (3:2 or 3:1) for mixtures. Do I need to thin the Tamiya paint for air brush, if so with what and how much?


Yes. You will need to use thinner or 97% Isopropyl Alcohol.

Scott


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## enterprise_fan

Vaderman said:


> Yes. You will need to use thinner or 97% Isopropyl Alcohol.
> 
> Scott


Do I use the same ratio 3:1 for flat finish?


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## HabuHunter32

I used Tamiya Lt. Gray Fine Primer for the hull/nacells and Tamiya Gray Primer for the front of the dorsal both in rattle cans . Tamiya JN AS-2 gray looked a little too dark to my eye. The rings and rear nacell caps and trench and other parts are going to be rattle can Krylon Smoke Gray. 

The blue color of the kit may be a match for the miniature but i painted the gray lady...well..gray. On my tv it always looked very light gray. The Tamiya fine primer color is a little darker than the over exposed extreme light gray on tv but i went a few shades darker.


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## ibbilly

I'm gonna use Behr Frozen pond flat from Home Depot.


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## John F

I pretty much stuck to the colors on the box.
I still have some touch ups to do. So far I'm pretty happy with it





































And a few inside with the lights on.


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## Prowler901

Beautiful job John! I can't wait to build mine.

Question: Is the blue light in the nacelles really that bright? Or is it more subtle in person? I know cameras have trouble balancing lights at times.


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## John F

Thanks !
It's actually brighter than that the flash kinda dumbed it down a little.


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## swhite228

Trekkriffic said:


> Yep. Got a can of that myself. Wish it came in flat finish. The gloss takes a week to fully cure. Oh well, no rush with this baby.


I got it in a flat finish when I got it.


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## Gary7

HabuHunter32 said:


> I used Tamiya Lt. Gray Fine Primer for the hull/nacells and Tamiya Gray Primer for the front of the dorsal both in rattle cans . Tamiya JN AS-2 gray looked a little too dark to my eye. The rings and rear nacell caps and trench and other parts are going to be rattle can Krylon Smoke Gray.
> 
> The blue color of the kit may be a match for the miniature but i painted the gray lady...well..gray. On my tv it always looked very light gray. The Tamiya fine primer color is a little darker than the over exposed extreme light gray on tv but i went a few shades darker.


That's my problem, too, trying to decide.  While the blue-gray looks fine, most all models & on screen caps I've seen make the Lady look a more neutral grey. Maybe I'll build a model in each version and see which I like best.


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## jaws62666

I used rustoleum Painters Touch Gloss Winter Gray

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=379271&page=4


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## PixelMagic

I haven't painted my TOS E yet, but I plan on using Tamiya Insignia White. It's not actually white, but more of a light gray color.


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## SFCOM1

I painted mine flat gull grey, with a touch ducks egg blue. Gave a nice "green" tint to the base coat. Very light to the extent where it is not noticeable unless you look very closely. Out side of that, mosty as per the box!


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## jaws62666

John F said:


> Thanks !
> It's actually brighter than that the flash kinda dumbed it down a little.


Great job:thumbsup: How did you frost your outer nacelle domes. I sprayed matte coat inside one and it is way too foggy with hot spots seen when lit. Im thinking of just dipping it in clear orange. Also did you light the hangar with the light kit, and how did you approach fitting the hangar with the lights in it


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## John F

jaws62666 said:


> Great job:thumbsup: How did you frost your outer nacelle domes. I sprayed matte coat inside one and it is way too foggy with hot spots seen when lit. Im thinking of just dipping it in clear orange. Also did you light the hangar with the light kit, and how did you approach fitting the hangar with the lights in it


I sprayed a couple coats of dullcoat on the outside of the domes also painted the inner domes transparent orange and dulcoated over that.

I did light the hangar bay but kinda messed it up. I forgot to light block the hangar floor so the led that lights the fantail glows through the hanger floor just inside the doors. It kinda looks like a flood light aimed at the floor. you can see it in this pic.











You can also see the flashing lights towards front end of the hangar. I'll just tell folks that those are warning lights that a shuttle craft is approaching.
By the time I realized what I had done, it was already assembled and painted, no way was I going to tear it all apart to fix it.

The hangar was a tight fit with the lights, mostly because of the excess wire. they designed in enough space in front of the hangar for the wires
but it was still tight
Also make sure that you trim out the center part of the observation thingie over the hangar door or the flat led that goes there won't have enough room.


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## ClubTepes

jaws62666 said:


> Great job:thumbsup: How did you frost your outer nacelle domes. I sprayed matte coat inside one and it is way too foggy with hot spots seen when lit. Im thinking of just dipping it in clear orange. Also did you light the hangar with the light kit, and how did you approach fitting the hangar with the lights in it


Spraying dullcote on the inside of the domes can be tricky as it can 'pool' very quickly in there.

I suggest fine steel wool for the inside and dullcote on the outside.

For those thinking of tinting your domes 'amber', obviously you can use Tamiya if you like. 

But if you don't have a LHS that carries Tamiya, I've had good luck experimenting using food coloring with 'future'.
Both available at your LGS (local grocery store) 

The dye doesn't fade and you can mix your own colors.


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## Ggg300

I used the AS2 from Tamiya, thought it might be a little dark at first, but I'm really happy with how it turned out. Also used Steel wool on the inside of the outer dome and on the inner dome. Then dulcoat on the outside when it was all assembled.


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## Gary7

Ggg300 said:


> I used the AS2 from Tamiya, thought it might be a little dark at first, but I'm really happy with how it turned out. Also used Steel wool on the inside of the outer dome and on the inner dome. Then dulcoat on the outside when it was all assembled.


Awesome, got some more pics? Nice looking Serenity, too.


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## RossW

Ggg300 said:


> I used the AS2 from Tamiya, thought it might be a little dark at first, but I'm really happy with how it turned out. Also used Steel wool on the inside of the outer dome and on the inner dome. Then dulcoat on the outside when it was all assembled.


Looks great!


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## Ggg300

Ggg300 said:


> I used the AS2 from Tamiya, thought it might be a little dark at first, but I'm really happy with how it turned out. Also used Steel wool on the inside of the outer dome and on the inner dome. Then dulcoat on the outside when it was all assembled.


Thanks, can't take credit for Serenity, that's the Little Damn Heroes Maquette, but I really like her. Here's a few more pics, one from behind and above, the other of the shuttle deck. Didn't get the red lines on top of the hull as straight as I'd like, but still overall happy with the result.


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## Proper2

Ggg300 said:


> Thanks, can't take credit for Serenity, that's the Little Damn Heroes Maquette, but I really like her. Here's a few more pics, one from behind and above, the other of the shuttle deck. Didn't get the red lines on top of the hull as straight as I'd like, but still overall happy with the result.



Very nice. That shuttle bay looks awesome! I wish I can get my hands on a 1:350 Galileo for my MR E even though the bay doors are shut.


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## Prowler901

That is a really fantastic looking build Ggg. Nice work on the shuttle bay too. :thumbsup:


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## Tiberious

As it doesn't appear that the Walmart Concrete nor the Ace Shady Cove are rattle can available this is a great thread for us airbrush challenged builders so please keep 'em coming! Also, if I'm wrong about the lack of rattle can availability please let me know. I want to do a trial run on a K7 Space Station to see how it works out.

Thanks!

Tib


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## Gary7

Ggg300 said:


> I used the AS2 from Tamiya, thought it might be a little dark at first, but I'm really happy with how it turned out. Also used Steel wool on the inside of the outer dome and on the inner dome. Then dulcoat on the outside when it was all assembled.


I looked on the Tamiya site for AS2, they did not list it. Was there another #? Also, what paint did you use for the darker accents? Buy the way, She Looks great. :thumbsup:


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## SteveR

Gary7 said:


> I looked on the Tamiya site for AS2, they did not list it.


http://www.tamiya.com/english/products/list/airmodel_spray/kit86501.htm

A poster on this thread indicates that XF-12 matches AS-2. (scroll to the bottom)


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## Ggg300

Gary7 said:


> I looked on the Tamiya site for AS2, they did not list it. Was there another #? Also, what paint did you use for the darker accents? Buy the way, She Looks great. :thumbsup:


The color is from their Aircraft series in a rattle can. As-2 Light Gray (IJN). That's the only numbers I can locate. The XF-12 is an acrylic, they are pretty close, I used that for some touch up work. The lighter of the two accent colors is also Tamiya, AS-10 Ocean Gray (RAF) and the really dark accents I used Model Master FS36081 Euro 1 Gray. I strayed a little bit from the recommended colors because I was not mixing and spraying. I was using the rattle cans for most of the work and just went with what I thought looked good to me.


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## sunburn800

I am still doing some research on color because i plan on painting mine a white metal instead of a light grey, just never cared for the grey color, wish me luck. First coat of paint will be a white primer then a metal maybe a steel or Aluminum then a final coat of lightly sprayed white for what will be a hopefully slight metallic look.


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## SteveR

sunburn800 said:


> First coat of paint will be a white primer then a metal maybe a steel or Aluminum then a final coat of lightly sprayed white for what will be a hopefully slight metallic look.


I guess you could test a couple of ways: metal then white, and the reverse. How about throwing Alclad into the mix?


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## Gary7

I plan to start mine this weekend. I pretty much have decided to paint it with BEHR Frozen Pond as it is a very close match to the kit molding color. Home Depot sells it in sample bottle that should be plenty. has anyone else used this paint on models? Being that it is a house paint, is there anyway to thin it for air brush use? What gloss clear coat should I use before applying the decals so there won't be any "silvering"?


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## djnick66

The Tamiya jar paints and AS or TS spray paints DO NOT MATCH. Even if the color is the same name like IJN Grey. The spray can and jars may be close, or actually quite different. But they are not matches, like say the Testors sprays and jars.


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## swhite228

Tiberious said:


> As it doesn't appear that the Walmart Concrete nor the Ace Shady Cove are rattle can available this is a great thread for us airbrush challenged builders so please keep 'em coming! Also, if I'm wrong about the lack of rattle can availability please let me know. I want to do a trial run on a K7 Space Station to see how it works out.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Tib


You could get the $9.00 air brush from Harbor Freight. I have a couple and while not the best for fine detail they are great for the things you would use a can for, or find the Testors air brush set with the can of gas and screw on top that turns your paint bottle into a spray can.

No mad airbrush skills needed and rattle can results along with the ability to change paint and colors as you want.


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## Lou Dalmaso

forgive the question if it has been asked before, but how does one paint a model with house paints?


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## RossW

Lou Dalmaso said:


> forgive the question if it has been asked before, but how does one paint a model with house paints?


With a roller?


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## Gary7

RossW said:


> With a roller?


Funny.  There are several sites to check about using house paint on models. The research I have done shows most thin the paint with alcohol :tongue: some with water to get the paint thin enough to spray with an airbrush. If you used alcohol, I would think you would have to work fast as it evaporates quickly. the other question would be how durable the paint would be. As it is flat it would need a gloss coat. possibly Future, for good decal adhesion and prevent silvering. Then another coat of dull to bring down the gloss and coat the decals.


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## Trekkriffic

Gary7 said:


> Funny.  There are several sites to check about using house paint on models. The research I have done shows most thin the paint with alcohol :tongue: some with water to get the paint thin enough to spray with an airbrush. If you used alcohol, I would think you would have to work fast as it evaporates quickly. the other question would be how durable the paint would be. As it is flat it would need a gloss coat. possibly Future, for good decal adhesion and prevent silvering. Then another coat of dull to bring down the gloss and coat the decals.


The ACE Shady Cove paint I bought is thick and glossy and made for farm equipment like tractors. It has an anti-rust additive. Too bad my models aren't metal.


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## Proper2

What exactly is the advantage to "house paint"? Why bother?


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## Gary7

Proper2 said:


> What exactly is the advantage to "house paint"? Why bother?


The reason is the BEHR Frozen Pond is nearly a dead match for the molded color of the PL model. Second is the 8 oz sample jar is only $2.94.


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## djnick66

Proper2 said:


> What exactly is the advantage to "house paint"? Why bother?


There is none.... It is not that hard to mix a color from easier to use or obtain stuff.


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## swhite228

djnick66 said:


> There is none.... It is not that hard to mix a color from easier to use or obtain stuff.


There are a few reasons the big one is cost. Another is the ability to get the same color as a gloss or matte. 

Cost is the reason I went with Ace Shady Cove, and Crazy Apple
With the Shady Cove can I have enough paint to do several of the 350 scale Enterprises and a few of the smaller Enterprise models. The Crazy Apple gives me enough paint to do a 10' x 10' green screen backdrop.

Cost for the 2 cans.....$0.00 - both from Ace Free Sample days
Savings $100+ on the Crazy Apple vs. Rosco Chroma screen paint.
$10.00+ on the shady Cove vs. small hobby size paint bottles.

You can have the colors mixed in to a number of different bases oil, latex, gloss, semi gloss, matte, textured, or glow in the dark.

Another plus is that by getting the color scanned and mixed in a larger quantity you get rid of the problem of hand mixed batches matching if you need to mix more.


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## Opus Penguin

Trekkriffic said:


> The ACE Shady Cove paint I bought is thick and glossy and made for farm equipment like tractors. It has an anti-rust additive. Too bad my models aren't metal.


Yep, I hear ya. I used it and have had problems like crazy. It looks like it will all turn out in the end, but I will never use this kind of paint again.


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## djnick66

swhite228 said:


> There are a few reasons the big one is cost. Another is the ability to get the same color as a gloss or matte.
> 
> Cost is the reason I went with Ace Shady Cove, and Crazy Apple
> With the Shady Cove can I have enough paint to do several of the 350 scale Enterprises and a few of the smaller Enterprise models. The Crazy Apple gives me enough paint to do a 10' x 10' green screen backdrop.
> 
> Cost for the 2 cans.....$0.00 - both from Ace Free Sample days
> Savings $100+ on the Crazy Apple vs. Rosco Chroma screen paint.
> $10.00+ on the shady Cove vs. small hobby size paint bottles.
> 
> You can have the colors mixed in to a number of different bases oil, latex, gloss, semi gloss, matte, textured, or glow in the dark.
> 
> Another plus is that by getting the color scanned and mixed in a larger quantity you get rid of the problem of hand mixed batches matching if you need to mix more.


Gloss or Flat finish is a non issue since clear coats are so easy to apply. There are benefits to using flat paints, for example, as they usually spray better and dry quicker than gloss. But a glossy surface is good for decals. With clear flat or gloss coats you could use any appropriate base paint.

Cost should not be a factor unless someone was cheap. I can't see buying a $150 kit, another $100 in lights, etc. and then cheap out and buy low cost low grade paint to save a couple bucks.

Getting color mixes and matches using better paint (for modeling) is also not very difficult at all. If you keep track of your mixing formula you can make as much as you want whenever you want.


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## RossW

Bear in mind that the pigments used in house paint are no where near as fine as hobby paints, which isn't surprising given their purpose.

I plan to mix up a big batch of Tamiya flat white + JN Grey and cross my fingers I guessed right on the amount I'll need.


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## tony1tech

I mixed about 1/4 tamiya flat white with 3/4 tamiya jn grey and added just a bit of testors hellblau 4788 actually looks great (I still like a bit of blue due to the fact when I was youngster it always seemed to me to appear a light blue and all my AMT builds at that time happen to be sky blue,I was like 11 years old then.Ahh what great memories!!


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## Trekkriffic

tony1tech said:


> I mixed about 1/4 tamiya flat white with 3/4 tamiya jn grey and added just a bit of testors hellblau 4788 actually looks great (I still like a bit of blue due to the fact when I was youngster it always seemed to me to appear a light blue and all my AMT builds at that time happen to be sky blue,I was like 11 years old then.Ahh what great memories!!


Soiunds like a good mix except, for me, I'd add a little olive drab in place of the Hellblau. I like a little olive in my grey.


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## djnick66

If people like pre mixed stuff and want to check around the recommended Tamiya IJN Grey is also available in a spray can, which is a bit lighter. IJA Grey is also in jars and cans and is a bit greener. Also since these are generic colors look at Testors, Poly Scale, Gunze, etc. IJN Greys... they will all be similar but some lighter, darker, greyer, greener.


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## davejames

I found a mix I really like involving Model Masters paints, using Aircraft Gray (which is a pretty exact match for the molded color, albeit a bit darker), Flat Gull Gray and White. It basically ends up looking like a slightly lighter and grayer version of the molded color, which is exactly what I want.

Unfortunately I'm gonna have to mix up a TON of this stuff to cover the model, which definitely won't be cheap with how much those bottles are going for now. I might check around for some other alternatives, but it's doubtful I'll find something I'm equally as happy with...


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## SteveR

I wonder if it's cheaper to prime the ship grey, then tint with layers of a stronger transparent (cut with clear) green?


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## djnick66

Again why cheap out on a $150 kit with $150 worth of lights to save $3.69 on a jar of paint? If you are airbrushing the model, you can thin most paints up to 50/50. The paint goes on so thin also you dont need gallons of paint for a good finish. 

A good base coat helps often with the final color coat too. The paint will adhere better to a thin primer coat, and you will use less paint. Although you have to buy primer, it does give you often a better finish.

It's funny the time and effort and expense people put into buying, building and detailing models versus spending an extra couple $$ for good paint. I just don't get it.


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## redline hunter

djnick66 said:


> Again why cheap out on a $150 kit with $150 worth of lights to save $3.69 on a jar of paint? If you are airbrushing the model, you can thin most paints up to 50/50. The paint goes on so thin also you dont need gallons of paint for a good finish.
> 
> A good base coat helps often with the final color coat too. The paint will adhere better to a thin primer coat, and you will use less paint. Although you have to buy primer, it does give you often a better finish.
> 
> It's funny the time and effort and expense people put into buying, building and detailing models versus spending an extra couple $$ for good paint. I just don't get it.


I'm with you a 1000 percent on this one! I think the paint is the most important part of the build -- it can turn a turd into a diamond. That said, I understand trying to save some money. I always shop around for the best deals I can get, but not at the expense of quality. On RARE occasions you get inexpensive and quality -- the perfect storm.



Doug


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## Gary7

djnick66 said:


> Again why cheap out on a $150 kit with $150 worth of lights to save $3.69 on a jar of paint? If you are airbrushing the model, you can thin most paints up to 50/50. The paint goes on so thin also you dont need gallons of paint for a good finish.
> 
> A good base coat helps often with the final color coat too. The paint will adhere better to a thin primer coat, and you will use less paint. Although you have to buy primer, it does give you often a better finish.
> 
> It's funny the time and effort and expense people put into buying, building and detailing models versus spending an extra couple $$ for good paint. I just don't get it.


Take a deep breath…1...2...3.….. I asked a question about using house paint and get attacked for being a cheap skate. I suppose all the molders that used $5.00 rattle cans (and are perfectly happy with their results) from Wal Mart are beneath contempt and should have the Enterprise models taken away for punishment. The BEHR paint was pointed out in a thread as a near perfect match for the molded color of the kit, which I have grown to like. I was trying to get some info to help with my decision. I did not expect to be raked over the coals by a Hobby Paint Snob. Now, I am sure that if you have deep enough pockets, you could probably make the model fly at warp speed. I am also fairly sure there are Big E lovers on a limited budget who spent a good bit of pay for the kits and might not be able to splurge $50-$100 on Hobby Paint. If the talk about the BEHR paint helps them, So much the better. Anyway , I think a little more tolerance would go a long way to help promote a fun hobby. Live Long & Prosper


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## djnick66

None of my comments were directed at you per se. So if you take it that way... 

As per cost... It isnt going to cost $100 in paint to do this kit. No way no how. Probably three $4 jars of Tamiya paint will do it.

As for having deep pockets no I do not. I lost my business nearly 3 years ago and am unemployed. But, as a modler of 40 plus years, I do know a thing or two about paints and how to get the best results. To me, results are not something equated to a specific price point. If I can get great results with a $2 paint I will use and recommend a $2 paint. On the other hand, if I feel something else is better then that is what I use and recommend.

Obviously you are free to use whatever paint you want. But, again I will point out that there are so many posts on all the HT model related forums about people with problems stemming from the use of various non hobby products.


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## Gary7

I apologize if I let this rub my rhubarb the wrong way. The end results is that I was trying to get info to help make my decision. I suppose I expected a little more tact. After a 30 year hiatus from building models, I built a PL 1/1000 E TOS a few years ago. I was ecstatic over the news of a 1:350 version and hope to make it the best I can and can afford. I am just looking at as many options as I can before doing the daunting task of actually building the Big E. Yes, there are many options I could try, but a little politeness goes a long way.


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## djnick66

Well I think I was polite. But I don't waste a lot of words trying to sugar coat things. I can't help it if people read things the wrong way or take my opinion off in an unintended direction. I would rather be clear and direct.

The thing with the house paint idea is that yes supposedly the color is good. BUT that doesn't mean the paint is great for modeling. I have the revised ST modeling book and it mentions the house paint too and IIRC even that book says the paint sucks for modeling but you could buy some and see what the color looked like. It recommends Tamiya IJN Grey as the actual paint to use. 

The one person on this forum that I know used house paint had so much trouble with it he said he wouldn't use it again. 

I really dont see the cost of model paints for the 1/350 kit being overly great. I painted the 1/650 kit with less than 1 full small size jar of Tamiya paint. I don't think it would take more than 3 jars to do the large kit. I buy a lot of my Tamiya paint from Lucky Models and its under $2 a jar. 

And, again I would go back and look at some of the other posts on the modeling, sci fi, car boards etc about the various problems people have using hardware type paints and products. That does not mean you can't use them... but it is pretty rare that anyone says, "I used some Tamiya primer, Tamiya paint, Tamiya tape, and had XyZ happen". Usually its "I got some cheap wal mart primer, some spray paint from K Mart, some Clear Lacquer from my friend's auto body shop, and the paint melted the model". Or the paint peeled off, didn't stick, melted when they put a wash on it, etc.


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## SteveR

The takeaway from this might be that not all paints are created equal, that model paints do have some advantages, and that one should always test an untried paint on a scale model ... ?


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## Gary7

SteveR said:


> The takeaway from this might be that not all paints are created equal, that model paints do have some advantages, and that one should always test an untried paint on a scale model ... ?


I agree with that. I asked to see if others had tried it and did some research to get a base line to work from as I was leaning toward that. As far as using house paint I have found people on both sides of the fence. And who would of thunk that modelers would embrace Future Floor Finish as they have.


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## swhite228

djnick66 said:


> The one person on this forum that I know used house paint had so much trouble with it he said he wouldn't use it again........I have the revised ST modeling book and it mentions the house paint too and IIRC even that book says the paint sucks for modeling but you could buy some and see what the color looked like. .


And that means all the others who have posted they are using house paint or car paint and haven't had problems are wrong because you got a paint guide that says it's bad?

"Hardware" paints, car lacquers, art paints have been used for modeling for as long as they have been available by both professional model builders as well as young kids, I've even seen a model "painted" with Rit dye.

For those pro hobby paint only folks the decision is neither right or wrong. It is what your comfortable with.
For those who use "Hardware" paint...see above and substitute Hardware for hobby. 

I know that I use different paints( hobby, hardware, and theater paints) based on how the item I'm painting is going to be used, or displayed. The other reason would be if it was the original paint used I will use it as the paint on the replica I'm working on...no matter what the model cost as it is usually what the folks I build for want.

The mix allows some really fun combinations that I could not get from 1 type of paint alone and to be honest yes every once in a while I'll get a couple of things that don't like each other but I can get the same problems mixing different hobby paint brands.

So let me ask...Have you tried any of the paints in this discussion? If so how did they work out for you?


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## d_jedi1

As for color, my basecoat will be "flat light aircraft gray" from Testors and I have a couple of krylon colors that I'll mist over it with but I need to check their names. After that, I'll weather it. I've used this on previous builds and always been happy.


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## djnick66

Anyway to get back to the original question I used Tamiya XF-76 Grey Green mixed with some Gloss White for my 1/650 kit.

You can also get this in spray paint from Tamiya and I think it is also in their enamel (yes Tamiya makes enamels) range if you buy from overseas.



I used less than one $1.99 small jar of paint for the 18" model, so 2 or 3 jars should do the 1/350 kit. I thin it out up to 50/50.


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## Mark2000

So I see all the recommended paints for this guy are acrylic. Is there any reason to want to go with enamel? When I've used enamel rattle cans in the past I've always found them more durable than acrylic paint that seems to rub off with a light scratch of a finger nail. Does priming help that?

Also, more importantly, How does one clean this guy? I imagine it collects dust easily. I also imagine acrylic stripping right off when my wife runs a damp cloth over it. Any techniques to keeping this thing on the wife's good side?


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## Fozzie

Mark2000 said:


> So I see all the recommended paints for this guy are acrylic. Is there any reason to want to go with enamel? When I've used enamel rattle cans in the past I've always found them more durable than acrylic paint that seems to rub off with a light scratch of a finger nail. Does priming help that?
> 
> Also, more importantly, How does one clean this guy? I imagine it collects dust easily. I also imagine acrylic stripping right off when my wife runs a damp cloth over it. Any techniques to keeping this thing on the wife's good side?


Prime before using the acrylic and seal the model afterwards and the acrylics will hold up just fine.


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## Mark2000

Fozzie, what primer and sealer do you recommend?


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## Proper2

Mark2000 said:


> Also, more importantly, How does one clean this guy? I imagine it collects dust easily. I also imagine acrylic stripping right off when my wife runs a damp cloth over it. Any techniques to keeping this thing on the wife's good side?


I would invest in a display base and clear acrylic cover. Buy one or make one. It's worth the peace of mind knowing you'll never have to worry about dust or family critters (or anything else).


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## Mark2000

Proper, didn't I say I have to stay on the wife's good side?  I don't even know where this thing is going to go - maybe the kid's room as a night light. I can't imagine any cases going with our furniture or not taking up more space than will be tolerated.


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## SteveR

Durability's a question. Yep, a case would be great, but assuming we can't use one, what would be the most durable finish to protect the model from handling and scratches?

Lacquer?
Or would Future be durable enough?


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## Carson Dyle

Tamiya rattle-cans contain synthetic lacquer. Testors rattle-cans contain enamel. I prefer lacquer-based paints, but both types are plenty durable.

I seldom use water-based acrylics for the main base coat, but if I did I'd certainly seal it with Future (or something similarly durable). In the case of the Enterprise, Future mixed with some water-based satin clear-coat.


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## Fozzie

I used Tamiya primer, Model Master acrylics, and sealed with Future.


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## Proper2

Mark2000 said:


> Proper, didn't I say I have to stay on the wife's good side?  I don't even know where this thing is going to go - maybe the kid's room as a night light. I can't imagine any cases going with our furniture or not taking up more space than will be tolerated.


Well, ask yourself how much actual added footprint is an acrylic cover. But I know what you mean about the wife. I have one of my own. I have the Master Replicas Enterprise on a pedestal and under an acrylic cover taking up one wall of our bedroom. That cost a pretty quatloo... and I don't necessarily mean in the financial sense.


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## Trekkriffic

When all was said and done I primed mine with Tamiya lacquer grey Fine Surface Primer and made up a custom mix of ModelMaster enamels-Imperial JN Sky Grey, Flat White, ACE Shady Cove, and SAC Bomber Green. Then I hit her with Dullcote before weathering with gel inks and pastels. Lastly she got her final coat of Testors Semi-Gloss.


IMG_5134 by trekriffic, on Flickr


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## FlyAndFight

Trekkriffic, your paint formula definitely looks perfect. I think you nailed the color and it shows in your pic. Well done.


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## ClubTepes

Trek,
Thanks for posting a pic.
Part of this was also to see everybody's paint choices.


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## Rocky1775

*Pilot Enterprise paint color*

I am convinced that the pilot version of the Enterprise was painted a lighter shade of grey than the production version. Footage of the pilot version was seen frequently throughout the series. A lot of people used to think the Enterprise was painted white, and I think that lighter color on the pilot model was responsible for that. It also didn't have the grid lines yet, so fill those in if you are doing a pilot version.


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## Carson Dyle

Rocky1775 said:


> A lot of people used to think the Enterprise was painted white, and I think that lighter color on the pilot model was responsible for that.


Well, I think the original issue AMT box photography may have had something to do with it.

Just my opinion, but if the Pilot version had been repainted a darker shade I suspect we would have heard about it. Richard Datin's restoration notes are pretty specific, and at no point is there any indication of any revised paint scheme as far as the hull's base color is concerned.


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## Proper2

Yeah, I remember even the production Enterprise looking very white to me on TV.


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## Wattanasiri

I am certain the model was always grey. The combination of the bright lights used for filming and the filming process gave the model its whitish appearance. It certainly was grey when I saw it in when it was mostly intact and functioning 1972. Areas of the model that were well illuminated appeared to be whitish and areas where the illumination was at or below room level were various levels of grey.

The same white to grey color range can be seen between the well lighted and shadowed areas of the original version of the filming model shown in the Post #82 photos. 

A similar white to grey color range can be seen in the attached photos of my MR USS Enterprise model. The area where the light from the camera flash was most pronounced appears to be white even though the model grey.


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## Rocky1775

Carson Dyle said:


> Well, I think the original issue AMT box photography may have had something to do with it.


Along with the white plastic inside.




> Just my opinion, but if the Pilot version had been repainted a darker shade I suspect we would have heard about it. Richard Datin's restoration notes are pretty specific, and at no point is there any indication of any revised paint scheme as far as the hull's base color is concerned.


Richard Datin "restoration" notes? Datin built it. Do you mean Ed Miarecki, who kept a log when he restored (defaced) it in 1992? He was under the misimpression that it had been repainted during the 1974 restoration. Perhaps he saw two layers of paint from the 1966 production version upgrade.

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Constitution_class_model_(original)#Eleven-foot_model


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## Rocky1775

Wattanasiri said:


> I am certain the model was always grey. The combination of the bright lights used for filming and the filming process gave the model its whitish appearance. It certainly was grey when I saw it in when it was mostly intact and functioning 1972. Areas of the model that were well illuminated appeared to be whitish and areas where the illumination was at or below room level were various levels of grey.
> 
> The same white to grey color range can be seen between the well lighted and shadowed areas of the original version of the filming model shown in the Post #82 photos.
> 
> A similar white to grey color range can be seen in the attached photos of my MR USS Enterprise model. The area where the light from the camera flash was most pronounced appears to be white even though the model grey.


Oh, the pilot Enterprise was grey all right, but it was a lighter shade.
Yes, the lighting and exposure time and lens aperature all make the issue difficult to resolve. But I have noticed that the on screen footage of the pilot Enterprise is lghter than the production version, and more telling, the photos that I posted above also show the arm of a cameraman who does not look over exposed as he stands by a pale pilot Enterprise. And here is a photo in sunlight with lots of things to compare the color to. Even concrete!


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## Proper2

I don't know if the pilot version was ever a lighter grey. I suppose we'll never know for sure. To me, the pilot E as pictured at the curb in Burbank, and even as pictured in post #82 with studio lights on it, looks the same grey as the production version. That's just my eye. (Also, most of those pics from the 60s are photo-restorations, in which case they are not exactly accurate.) Maybe it was additional "weathering" that was added later on that produce a different look. Or maybe it WAS repainted slightly darker. I just don't see any evidence of it.


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## phicks

There was a wonderful interview with Datin in the Star Trek Communicator magazine about 10 years ago. He discussed matching over spray from the Enterprise paint job on the blueprints that he still owned, and that it was a concrete grey, and he provided a colour name/number at Sears. I do not recall any discussion about changing the base paint job after the pilot. Weathering was added that may have affacted the overall colour a bit. But the colour of the model on screen looked different in every shot because of the intensity of lights shining on the model, and spill of light from the bluescreen.


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## Proper2

phicks said:


> There was a wonderful interview with Datin in the Star Trek Communicator magazine about 10 years ago. He discussed matching over spray from the Enterprise paint job on the blueprints that he still owned, and that it was a concrete grey, and he provided a colour name/number at Sears. I do not recall any discussion about changing the base paint job after the pilot. Weathering was added that may have affacted the overall colour a bit. But the colour of the model on screen looked different in every shot because of the intensity of lights shining on the model, and spill of light from the bluescreen.


That makes sense. Here's part of that Datin piece: http://culttvman.com/main/?p=7718


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## jgoldsack

I'm going to paint mine pink.


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## Trekkriffic

jgoldsack said:


> I'm going to paint mine pink.


The USS BISMOL perhaps?


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## Carson Dyle

Rocky1775 said:


> Richard Datin "restoration" notes? Datin built it. Do you mean Ed Miarecki, who kept a log when he restored (defaced) it in 1992?


"Restoration" was a terrible choice of words on my part. I was thinking "revision" but (in a senior moment) typed "restoration" instead. 

I was referring to the list of changes and upgrades made to the 11-footer from 1st Pilot version through Production version. I believe said list was originally posted to Datin's website, and it's often been re-posted on Hobbytalk. An editorialized version can also be found on the Star Trek History site.

Sorry for the confusion.


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## Ipinchyourneck

*Old school Enterprise*

I'm new to this forum so I was attracted to this thread and thought I'd put my thoughts into this while its on my mind. I'm fascinated with the variety of shades of gray people paint the TOS Enterprise. I almost forgot what the color the TOS Enterprise is. With the original special effects Star Trek had the Enterprise seemed over-exposed from the studio lights and I grew up thinking the Enterprise was actually white, so I painted them white. While the redigitalized TOS Enterprise looks pretty good on TV with the darker shades of gray against the blackness of space, it doesn't seem quite right sitting on a shelf with the whiteness of apartment walls. I purchased a couple of TOS Enterprises from different manufacturers that are prebuilt and painted from E-Bay (palm sized) and a Hallmarks Gallileo shuttle Christmas ornament and noted how they all were the same shade of neutral light gray. That settled how I should paint my 1/350 scale. What would be nice are a line of paints specifically formulated for Star Trek models with the different varieties, surely the market is there.:thumbsup:


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## Wattanasiri

Rocky1775 said:


> Oh, the pilot Enterprise was grey all right, but it was a lighter shade.
> Yes, the lighting and exposure time and lens aperature all make the issue difficult to resolve. But I have noticed that the on screen footage of the pilot Enterprise is lghter than the production version, and more telling, the photos that I posted above also show the arm of a cameraman who does not look over exposed as he stands by a pale pilot Enterprise. And here is a photo in sunlight with lots of things to compare the color to. Even concrete!


Well, Los Angeles sidewalk concrete of the 1960s should have a color name of its own especially after being exposed to so many different materials from a huge variety of sources including 1960s LA air. The grey tone of the model shown in your photo is comparable to what I remember seeing on the same model in 1972.

I suspect the cost of repainting the model (materials + labor) and the time would have been sufficient cause for veto by Roddenberry, Desilu and/or NBC. That model is big so repainting it would not have been a simple, cheap or quick undertaking. Keep in mind the special effects of that era were more of an artistic process. The model shown in one film segment would most likely have some color and illumination variations when that same model was shown in a different film segment.


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## Mark2000

Did anyone ever find a replacement for Voodoo Grey?


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## MGagen

jgoldsack said:


> I'm going to paint mine pink.





Trekkriffic said:


> The USS BISMOL perhaps?


No, the USS _Mary Kay_. You're awarded one when you've sold enough 23rd century cosmetics. 

Also, it's the ship where all the "Mary Jane" stories take place... :tongue:

M.


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## starseeker

Ipinchyourneck said:


> I'm new to this forum so I was attracted to this thread and thought I'd put my thoughts into this while its on my mind. I'm fascinated with the variety of shades of gray people paint the TOS Enterprise. I almost forgot what the color the TOS Enterprise is. With the original special effects Star Trek had the Enterprise seemed over-exposed from the studio lights and I grew up thinking the Enterprise was actually white, so I painted them white. While the redigitalized TOS Enterprise looks pretty good on TV with the darker shades of gray against the blackness of space, it doesn't seem quite right sitting on a shelf with the whiteness of apartment walls. I purchased a couple of TOS Enterprises from different manufacturers that are prebuilt and painted from E-Bay (palm sized) and a Hallmarks Gallileo shuttle Christmas ornament and noted how they all were the same shade of neutral light gray. That settled how I should paint my 1/350 scale. What would be nice are a line of paints specifically formulated for Star Trek models with the different varieties, surely the market is there.:thumbsup:


You have to take into account scale effect when modelling colors. If you were to get the perfect chip of paint off of the 12' miniature and paint your 3' E exactly the same color, it would likely look a little dark to your eye. If you were to paint a 22" or 18" E the same color as the color ship, they would probably look even more overly dark to your eye. They would probably seem even darker than the 3'. Not darker in color, as they are all exactly the same color, but too dark as models of the E. They just wouldn't "look right". That's why the smaller the scale of the model, you always want to lighten the model color just a bit. Armor and aircraft modellers do this as a matter of course, lightening as they go from 1/12 to 1/16 to 1/24 to 1/35 to 1/48 to 1/72 etc scales. There is no "correct" color for the E. You can try to replicate the the miniature's look, the on-screen look(s), what the instructions say, but in the end it all has to come down to what looks right to you.
Also, the larger the scale, the more important the paint job becomes. An 18" E looks all right painted one color. When I built my 3' in the 90s, I instantly discovered just how boring a monochromatic big E is. The paint job can be flawless and even from tip to tip, but (personal opinion) it's just plain boring. The 12' was quite weathered, to add visual interest. There's a pretty good article in the November 2013 issue of Fine Scale Modeling on what they call "filtering". It's very applicable to the E, especially the big E. Armor modellers use this to bring to life little tiny otherwise monochromatic1/35 trucks and tanks. Something 3' feet long just cries out for weathering and "filtering".

Edit: of course, it's all a matter of personal tastes. To my mind, the F-18 on the cover is slightly overdone. It looks like it has lots of little round airbrush blotches that just shouldn't be there. ??


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## SteveR

starseeker said:


> You have to take into account scale effect when modelling colors.


Absolutely. Of course, the amount of lightening and contrast-lowering is proportional to the size-reduction of the model. Compared to the filming miniature, this model is … what? 1/4 scale? So it would not have to be affected as much as a 1/72 fighter, say.

My paradigm is this: this process applies to duplicating the filming miniature, where we lighten the original "concrete" paint as if we were building a 1/4 scale model. Also, if you're talking about atmosphere effects, I'm talking about the air in the studio, where a twelve-foot object was photographed.  In the end, I'm doing what looks right to me: I'll start with the approved paint colour, then sit with it for a while and see if it looks right. If it's too dark, I'll probably mist lighter grey on the upper surfaces. We'll see.



starseeker said:


> There's a pretty good article in the November 2013 issue of Fine Scale Modeling on what they call "filtering".


Good idea. Different shades and tints of grey?


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## crowe-t

Mark2000 said:


> Did anyone ever find a replacement for Voodoo Grey?


Testors Light Gray (FS36495) might be a good replacement. I have yet to see Voodoo Gray in person but I do have the 1/350 kit. The light gray represented on the side of the box(color suggestions) looks like FS36495 as does the picture of the color chips in the Sci Fi & Fantasy Modeller issue 26.

The hobby paint/colors that are suggested on the 1/350's box are just out of the bottle suggestions that are close to the color chips Gary made, not necessarily exact.


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## ClubTepes

starseeker said:


> You have to take into account scale effect when modelling colors. If you were to get the perfect chip of paint off of the 12' miniature and paint your 3' E exactly the same color, it would likely look a little dark to your eye. If you were to paint a 22" or 18" E the same color as the color ship, they would probably look even more overly dark to your eye. They would probably seem even darker than the 3'. Not darker in color, as they are all exactly the same color, but too dark as models of the E. They just wouldn't "look right". That's why the smaller the scale of the model, you always want to lighten the model color just a bit. Armor and aircraft modellers do this as a matter of course, lightening as they go from 1/12 to 1/16 to 1/24 to 1/35 to 1/48 to 1/72 etc scales. There is no "correct" color for the E. You can try to replicate the the miniature's look, the on-screen look(s), what the instructions say, but in the end it all has to come down to what looks right to you.
> Also, the larger the scale, the more important the paint job becomes. An 18" E looks all right painted one color. When I built my 3' in the 90s, I instantly discovered just how boring a monochromatic big E is. The paint job can be flawless and even from tip to tip, but (personal opinion) it's just plain boring. The 12' was quite weathered, to add visual interest. There's a pretty good article in the November 2013 issue of Fine Scale Modeling on what they call "filtering". It's very applicable to the E, especially the big E. Armor modellers use this to bring to life little tiny otherwise monochromatic1/35 trucks and tanks. Something 3' feet long just cries out for weathering and "filtering".
> 
> Edit: of course, it's all a matter of personal tastes. To my mind, the F-18 on the cover is slightly overdone. It looks like it has lots of little round airbrush blotches that just shouldn't be there. ??


The reason for 'Scale Effect' is to take into account the scaled amount of 'atmosphere' between the viewer and the model.


Since we are talking about outer space, I don't think it works the same way.


----------



## RossW

It all comes down to personal taste, but I've always painted my smaller scale kits lighter to help convey (to my mind, at least) the size of the ship. While it's true there's no atmosphere in space, there's also the resolution of our eyes to consider - things tend to blur together/lose contrast with great distance.


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## starseeker

ClubTepes said:


> The reason for 'Scale Effect' is to take into account the scaled amount of 'atmosphere' between the viewer and the model.
> 
> 
> Since we are talking about outer space, I don't think it works the same way.[/QUOTE
> 
> Atmospheric dispersion certainly contributes to making things seem lighter on earth, but light spreads and dims in a vacuum as well. A 60 watt bulb in your house would still be too bright in any scale model, earth or space-based (no model of an E should be casting shadows on the walls or ceiling), and even the stars dim in brightness relative to distance, otherwise the night sky would be white. Scale is related to distance as well as size, and lightness/brightness (color density) is related to scale.
> (Some people also say things don't get dirty in the vacuum of space, but look at any current space station or recovered satellite. They're filthy and discolored from particles and off-gassing and collecting debris.)


----------



## Mark2000

I think using this scale approach isn't applicable to the Enterprise - any version - because we aren't talking about an actual sky scraper sized object. We're talking about a model on TV. There is no real world frame of reference. If you feel the 1/350 model looks too dark with the colors of the 11' one that's because studio lights made those colors washed out on screen. The 11' model looks too dark.

I still can't believe the coloring of the refit model IRL. That blue on the bridge and around the nacelle supports is gaudy. I don't know why people paint it that way on their models. It was meant to be toned down by the lights and film stock.

As for weathering, it looks great and I have no problem including it, but the E has a navigational deflector that shouldn't allow even dust to touch the hull at relativistic speeds. She should be as clean as a whistle, barring combat damage. And even then it would have to break the shields, which - with the exception of TWOK - snap on automatically.


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## Proper2

To me an important consideration one should ask themselves in how to paint the E would be as follows.

Do you want your model to be a representation of:

a) The actual 11' studio model (based on reference pics and interviews)
b) The model as it actually appeared on-screen in 1966-1969 (subjective & varies)
c) The model as it was perhaps meant to appear on-screen (very subjective) 
d) Completely a matter of personal preference w/ no regard for any of the above


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## starseeker

Mark2000 said:


> I think using this scale approach isn't applicable to the Enterprise - any version - because we aren't talking about an actual sky scraper sized object. We're talking about a model on TV. There is no real world frame of reference.


No, it's not a real object. It's a scale model. And as the scales of models gets smaller, from a 1/12 scale tank to a 1/32 scale tank, to a 1/72 scale tank, if they are painted exactly the same color from the same bottle of Testors paint, the smaller model tank will seem darker than the larger model tank. And all of them, if painted the same color as a 1/1 scale tank, will seem darker than the 1/1 model tank.
See:http://www.cybermodeler.com/color/scale_effect.shtml
I can't even remember the original question, something about finding a very small model E and using what looks like the perfect E color on a larger scale model. If you paint them exactly the same color, they still won't look the same to the eye.
That is why, no matter what the instructions or anything else says, you have to paint your model to what looks good to you. And that might not be exactly the same color from 36" to 22" to 11".


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## SteveR

starseeker said:


> That is why, no matter what the instructions or anything else says, you have to paint your model to what looks good to you. And that might not be exactly the same color from 36" to 22" to 11".


Exactly! :thumbsup:


----------



## Dr. Brad

Proper2 said:


> To me an important consideration one should ask themselves in how to paint the E would be as follows.
> 
> Do you want your model to be a representation of:
> 
> a) The actual 11' studio model (based on reference pics and interviews)
> b) The model as it actually appeared on-screen in 1966-1969 (subjective & varies)
> c) The model as it was perhaps meant to appear on-screen (very subjective)
> d) Completely a matter of personal preference w/ no regard for any of the above


I'd vote for c, but yes, it is very, subjective!


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## J_Indy

I would agree that the scaling does have an affect on the visual perception of the same color.

I think this is not only because of scale, but also the casting of shadows in details of the smaller model, which will not match the same visual input of the larger object.

So while the model may require some lightening of the coloring in the main body, it may also require darkening in detail/indented areas to provide an illusion of depth where there effectively is none on the smaller scale.

Not doing so can make the end product appear toy-like - not good, unless that is the look you are going for...


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## ClubTepes

starseeker said:


> (Some people also say things don't get dirty in the vacuum of space, but look at any current space station or recovered satellite. They're filthy and discolored from particles and off-gassing and collecting debris.)


That is why you occasionally have to run them through the cosmic car-wash thingie.


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## starseeker

I KNEW there was something else Dr. Smith could screw up! Probably slated for a 4th season episode.


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## SteveR

J_Indy said:


> … it may also require darkening in detail/indented areas to provide an illusion of depth where there effectively is none on the smaller scale.


Ambient occlusion! 

http://www.peterkutz.com/computergraphics/images/path_tracer/AmbientOcclusionMuscleCar.png
http://www.peterkutz.com

(There actually is a bit of that on the original miniature, where the B/C deck meets the primary hull, for example.)


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## Rocky1775

jgoldsack said:


> I'm going to paint mine pink.





Trekkriffic said:


> The USS BISMOL perhaps?


USS Sea Tiger, of course, ala Operation Petticoat. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Petticoat


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## Rocky1775

starseeker said:


> (Some people also say things don't get dirty in the vacuum of space,


Thats because they don't get dirty.

[


> but look at any current space station or recovered satellite. They're filthy and discolored


If they land in a pile of crap, thats what they are going to look like. But if you look at any photo of any space station or satellite in orbit, they are shiny and pristine.




> from particles and off-gassing


The only particles up there are the ones that came off the satellite itself, or micrometeorites that are travelling at tens of thousands of miles an hour and vaporize on impact. Any leaking gas is going to be as close to not being there as you could imagine, with an infinity of space to expand into. And what gas on a spacecraft would cause discoloration? Hadrazine? NH4 is a colorless gas, and I wouldn't expect a compound of nitrogen and hydrogen to discolor anything.




> and collecting debris.)


At 25,000 mph, a grain of rice would blast right through a starship. 

But there is matter that can interact with a spacecraft in a less violent way. I have read that there is atomic oxygen at the altitude of low Earth orbit. It is extremely reactive, and gave the Space Shuttle a chalky surface. I suppose that could cause a rust ring. Jupiter's moon Io throws sulfer into space from its volcanos. A spacecraft might get a yellow dusting from that, although the radiation there would kill an astronaut in no time, and fry the electronics too. Io is not a friendly place to go to, but there could be a similar volcanic moon in another solar system that isn't orbiting in a radiation belt. Saturn's moon Enceladus is spewing gysers of water into space. That might frost a spaceship over time, but that would evaporate at the next Class M planet a starship visits.

The basic problem with space dirt is that it won't stay in orbit around a planet, because little stuff gets dragged down by the thin air up there, which is just as well, because anything you run into is going to annihilate you.


----------



## J_Indy

Well, speaking only about the Big E in "Star Trek" world....

She did enter planetary atmosphere in The Naked Time with her engines off (no power for the shields) - so maybe she got a scorching in that episode...


----------



## Proper2

"How many licks does it take... to get to the center of this..."


----------



## Rocky1775

J_Indy said:


> Well, speaking only about the Big E in "Star Trek" world....
> 
> She did enter planetary atmosphere in The Naked Time with her engines off (no power for the shields) - so maybe she got a scorching in that episode...


That would have cooked the paint off. Spray one side if it aluminium. :thumbsup:


----------



## J_Indy

Rocky1775 said:


> That would have cooked the paint off. Spray one side if it aluminium. :thumbsup:


Not 23rd century paint. 

In the future, graffiti will be impossible to remove..... 

UPDATE:

After setting my Time Tunnel to tunnel into the 23rd century, I attended a class at "Scotty's Engineering and Scotch-Tasting Academy" and was told by an instructor named Calvin that the insignia and registry on starships is not paint, but the surface of the ship altered by a process called "Transmorgrification" to reflect the desired wavelength of light - therefore it is actually part of the ship and does not scratch off.

In fact, he turned to a stuffed tiger on his desk and laughed at the question, saying "You hear that? Paint! He must have just fallen off a 21st century turnip truck!"

There was more, but I don't remember it after the scotch-tasting part....


----------



## starseeker

I've looked for it a bit but I just don't want to spend any more time on it: there is at least one account of (I believe) an American astronaut visiting Mir. I think it was a man and it may have been the man who was trapped aboard Mir when it had all its problems. But when s/he first saw Mir, the first impression of its outside was how filthy it was. In space, radiation from the sun attacks spacecraft surfaces. The intense heat and cold degrades spacecraft surface materials. There's off-gassing from visiting/docked spacecraft. There's off-gassing from the space station itself, as well as elimination of all kinds of waste products like RCS thrusters, solid/liquid/gaseous chemicals, and waste waste, etc. There's no free-floating dust in space (well, extremely little) , but spacecraft carry their own atmospheres of grime with them. And in space, the grime doesn't dissipate. It's attracted to the nearest (and only) object with mass. 
The reason spacecraft, especially the space stations, look so clean and brilliant in pictures is due to albedo. 2001 Odyssey was photographed with a very high albebo, trying to capture the extreme contrast between bright and dark that is seen on NASA photographs. Star Trek and Lost in Space were photographed with a very low albedo - the spacecraft have very soft brightness and hardly any sharply defined, deep shadow. If you look at something like the photos of the shuttle taken from the ISS, unless they are the photos looking for tile damage, the spacecraft look almost pristine. Yet if you look at them on earth, even their white bits are all grungy and discolored. Photos of the LM in space or on the moon make it look like the ascent stage was all shiny metal. It was metal, but it was all dull green-grey. The intense brightness of the light washes out all the color and makes it look all shiny bright. 
Who knows - maybe at hyperdrive and warp speeds, spacecraft will act as giant bosons and despite deflectors gather vast clouds of particles that will eventually coalesce into something tangible and settle onto them when they slow down. Any number of "legitimate" reasons for weathering your spacecraft. 
There is another option for painting the Enterprise and it's been used here on other models. I won't say where because, personally, I find this option a little loopy. Not that I don't really respect the knowledge and skill of the modeller - I truly do - just that this isn't an option I'd ever consider: you can paint the model to exactly match the miniature, then adjust the color and brightness of the lighting to interact with the paints to make the model look the way it does on screen. As he (proudly?) says, whenever anyone sees the model, their first reaction always is: "That's not how it looks!" But with the right lighting he can take photographs of the model that make it look dead-on on-screen. Maybe not an option for everyone (tho' he's unfortunately adamant about it being the ONLY option) but, hey, if it makes you happy...

Edit: I'm probably in an extremely small minority here, but I really like the CGI remastered TOS E (there goes my credibility about anything else I've ever said). But if I ever actually start building again and have any room on my to-do list, I'd be tempted to try another TOS E with a very subdued aztek, just to see what it turns out like.


----------



## Mark2000

You know, I noticed no one is painting the old girl a duck egg kind of blue grey. That's how she appears most of the time on screen. Did anyone consider it? I'm thinking Tam flat aluminum with a hint of blue would look smashing.


----------



## Proper2

Mark2000 said:


> You know, I noticed no one is painting the old girl a duck egg kind of blue grey. That's how she appears most of the time on screen. Did anyone consider it? I'm thinking Tam light grey with a hint of blue would look smashing.



You shouldn't use the words "duck egg" and "smashing" in the same post. But sewriously, I think a lot of people--if not most--have painted her a light grey with a very slight green tint, which is probably the consensus for being the most accurate. But to be honest, in all un-restored episodes she's always looked pretty much white to me on screen.


----------



## Mark2000

Duck egg is actually the term Andy Probert used when describing the look of the E in TOS and the color he used to paint the E-D model. And it's very definitely smashing. No matter what, this is definitely nothing approaching white.


----------



## Proper2

Mark2000 said:


> Duck egg is actually the term Andy Probert used when describing the look of the E in TOS and the color he used to paint the E-D model. And it's very definitely smashing. No matter what, this is definitely nothing approaching white.


If you read enough of these posts you will realize just how very subjective a "duck egg" color for the E really is. Especially since the on-screen color of the E "changed" sometimes from week to week. Nevertheless, when I watched back in the late 60s the grey lady looked quite white on the TV sets and or the broadcasts of that day. And actually, that can be construed as white considering the dark of space. Again, subjective. The actual studio model was not painted with that blue tint. In fact, depending on the broadcast, the TV monitor and or the reproduction variables of the photograph or screen capture thereof, the ship could appear to be anywhere from pink-lavender to green-chartreuse. But if it's some kind of consensus you are seeking, there is a color chip according to Paul M. Newitt that points to "Concrete": http://culttvman.com/main/?p=7718.


----------



## Mark2000

Well, the majority of the stills and screen caps I've collected are blue. It seems like the brighter the model was lit the bluer it gets, the darker the greener, which makes sense since more light would equal more blue screen reflection. Probert thought it was blue. Jein's model was on the blue grey side - definitely not green. Filmation colored the ship blue, and Daren Dochtoman's CGI model is way blue. All I'm saying is it's a viable option that many professionals who have worked on the properties have gone for. I'm wondering if anyone else considered it. You didn't. That's cool.


----------



## Trekkriffic

One of these days I'm going to build one in light gray with an overspray of transparent pearl blue metallic. I think that might look prety sweet as an homage to Ol' Blue.


----------



## Proper2

Most of the time I remember her looking like this: http://highdefdiscnews.com/screenshots/star_trek_the_original_series_season_1/old/enterprise1.png


----------



## SteveR

Proper2 said:


> Most of the time I remember her looking like this: http://highdefdiscnews.com/screenshots/star_trek_the_original_series_season_1/old/enterprise1.png


The link, she no work …?

We might have to navigate through the highdefdiscnews site to find the image.


----------



## Proper2

SteveR said:


> The link, she no work …?
> 
> We might have to navigate through the highdefdiscnews site to find the image.


Back in the 60s, and even long afterward, I was under the impression she was white. And the AMT model at the time that was molded in pure-white plastic didn't help that mis-conception.


----------



## SteveR

Proper2 said:


> Back in the 60s, and even long afterward, I was under the impression she was white. And the AMT model at the time that was molded in pure-white plastic didn't help that mis-conception.


Yeah … thinking back, a "concrete" ship would have seemed too dark back in the day. But now, white seems too bright to me. I'm definitely going to try to put the whole thing together, paint it, then sit with it for a while to see if it "feels" right before I put the markings on.


----------



## OzyMandias

Chiming in here, my 1/1000 scale Enterprise is sporting Games Wokshop/Citadel Fortress Grey for the Hull colour and the darker accents are Codex Grey. They do a couple of very nice blue greys; Space Wolves grey, and Shadow Grey. They have changed the paint names with the release of their latest range of paints but there is a conversion chart so you can get the same colours from the new range. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151180575610522&set=pb.608915521.-2207520000.1388962667.&type=3&theater
If the link doesn't work I'll post the pic here at HT. I'm very happy with the colour, and feel it captures the Enterprise I carry in my mind's eye pretty effectively. Doing the 1/350 Enterprise with the Citadel colours would be an expensive undertaking as the paint pots are really tiny and quite expensive.
Just as an aside, I tried the Tamiya J.N. Grey from a pot on my 22" cutaway and found it WAY too green. I know it's supposed to be the closest premix to the studio model colour (with added white) but it just doesn't sit right as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## crowe-t

I had used Tamiya J.N. Grey(mixed with 25% flat white) on a PL 1/1000 kit and it still looks a bit too green IMO. On my current AMT 18" TOS Enterprise I mixed a custom Tamiya color: 3 parts XF-12 J.N Grey, 1 part XF-19 Sky Grey & 4 parts XF-2 Flat White. The Sky Grey tones down the green tint a bit. It looks neutral gray in daylight and has a green color shift in indoor lighting. To my eyes it looks right. It's in between the Master Replica's TOS E hull color and the WalMart Concrete color chip.


----------



## RossW

crowe-t said:


> I had used Tamiya J.N. Grey(mixed with 25% flat white) on a PL 1/1000 kit and it still looks a too green IMO. On my current AMT 18" TOS Enterprise I mixed a custom Tamiya color: 3 parts XF-12 J.N Grey, 1 part XF-19 Sky Grey & 4 parts XF-2 Flat White. The Sky Grey tones down the green tint a bit. It looks neutral gray in daylight and has a green color shift in indoor lighting. To my eyes it looks right. It's in between the Master Replica's TOS E hull color and the WalMart Concrete color chip.


That's roughly the mix I worked out for my 1/350 a few months ago! (not my idea - someone here suggested those colours) The Sky Grey does indeed tone down the green and gets very close to the Tamiya Grey Primer (Fine) colour that I'm trying to get close to (but a bit lighter).


----------



## stryker

I went with flat gull gray (Flat Gull Gray FS36440 Acryl - 1/2 oz. Bottle) and added 5 drops of flat brown to each bottle. Used JN gray for high-lights. My hanger bay is primer grey and sand. Standard clear coat, sand, dull coat. Gives it a nice edge. Thought it matched the ACE Concrete as I remember the ship as a kid.


----------



## jgoldsack

Neon Pink.


----------



## Photoman77

I'm going with Tamiya as-5 Light Luftwaffe blue. It's the best color match I can find for Federation starships in a spray can. And believe me, I've done some research.


----------



## Mark2000

Photoman, I hope you'll be putting up pictures. I'd really like to see the ship in that color.


----------



## Photoman77

Mark2000 said:


> Photoman, I hope you'll be putting up pictures. I'd really like to see the ship in that color.


Here is some:





modelmaker 2001 said:


> Here is my own partly scratch/partly kit bashed "Deadelus/ Horizon" class starship. I used Tamiya AS-5 spray paint. The decals came from the 1/1000 scale USS Enterprise
> 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/12623155185/
> 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/12623594184/in/photostream/
> 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/12623276683/in/photostream/
> 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/12623280353/in/photostream/


----------



## Mark2000

Nice. Will you be doing the 1/350 E?


----------



## Photoman77

Mark2000 said:


> Nice. Will you be doing the 1/350 E?


I have it under construction..


----------



## Photoman77

*Tamiya AS-5*

I reluctantly would like to rehash this thread a bit because it was a major stumbling block for me in getting a grey lady painted to my satisfaction. 

Long story shortened: After extensive research I was able to settle on Tamiya AS-5 Light Luftwaffe Blue as the primary color for the Enterprise hull:

My initial comparison with the 1/350 kit plastic:


----------



## MartyS

Photoman77 said:


> Long story shortened: After extensive research I was able to settle on Tamiya AS-5 Light Luftwaffe Blue as the primary color for the Enterprise hull:


So you are going for the look used for the pilot?


I'm in the middle of building mine now. I mixed a lot of Tamyia X-2 white in with the X-12 JN grey. I don't find it too green, it's nearly the same as the kit plastic color.

Currently trying to figure out what to do with the parts attached to the nacelles, and the impulse engine area. I'll probably do what I just did with the dorsal "fin", use XF-54 grey, then a thin coat of the hull color, gives a slightly darker hull color to the part. 

I really depends on what source material you look at, I'm going by studio photos taken for the effects of Space Seed for the accents, and the general look of the best looking shots from the Blu-Rays.

It really is too bad none of the film from the effects shots survived. Then we would have really good source images of that beautiful 11 foot model.


----------



## SteveR

Photoman77 said:


> Long story shortened: After extensive research I was able to settle on Tamiya AS-5 Light Luftwaffe Blue as the primary color for the Enterprise hull.


It's a good hue (shade of green) and value (lightness/darkness), but it's a hair too saturated (non-gray) to my eye. But it may be the best single-rattlecan color for a gray-green ship that I've seen, yes.


----------



## Photoman77

This is my 1/350 Enterprise painted in Tamiya AS-5 Luftwaffe blue:


----------



## Shaw

Looks great! :thumbsup:

What did you use for weathering?


----------



## Mark2000

Really nice, photoman. I kind of wish I had gone a bit bluer on mine after seeing yours.


----------



## SteveR

Nicely done!


----------



## Photoman77

Shaw said:


> Looks great! :thumbsup:
> 
> What did you use for weathering?


I used black, green and brown oil paints lightly, more or less dry brushed on, with a small stiff-bristled brush.


----------



## Trekkriffic

Sweet! Understated weathering. Nicely done. Love the bluish tint.


----------



## KUROK

Photoman77 said:


> This is my 1/350 Enterprise painted in Tamiya AS-5 Luftwaffe blue:


If I didn't know it was a kit build, it could have fooled me to think it was the actual studio model!

:thumbsup:


----------



## Photoman77

Thank you all. Many of you were inspiring to me with your work, and helpful to me in fulfilling a life-long desire to own a large, accurate model of this ship. I have from early childhood, and always will, love this ship. The kit was a dream come true.


----------



## trdncik

Hello, would Tamiya's AS-26 Light Ghost Grey work?


----------



## Photoman77

trdncik said:


> Hello, would Tamiya's AS-26 Light Ghost Grey work?


It will, but imo the added color of the slight blue in Luftwaffe blue makes all the difference: 






And this is a Trek ship of mine done in plain light grey:


----------



## PixelMagic

Tamiya AS-5 Luftwaffe is nice, but I feel a bit too dark and a bit too saturated to match the plastic color.


----------



## Photoman77

PixelMagic said:


> Tamiya AS-5 Luftwaffe is nice, but I feel a bit too dark and a bit too saturated to match the plastic color.


Matching the plastic is fine if you want a pale green spaceship


----------



## SteveR

Photoman77 said:


> Matching the plastic is fine if you want a pale green spaceship


To each his own, no?


----------



## PixelMagic

Photoman77 said:


> Matching the plastic is fine if you want a pale green spaceship


Or to, you know, be accurate to the original miniature.


----------



## SteveR

PixelMagic said:


> Tamiya AS-5 Luftwaffe is nice, but I feel a bit too dark and a bit too saturated to match the plastic color.





Photoman77 said:


> Matching the plastic is fine if you want a pale green spaceship





PixelMagic said:


> Or to, you know, be accurate to the original miniature.





Photoman77 said:


> Question was, 'what color did you paint yours?' Not what opinion of others do drag uselessly around while trolling.


Some like grey, some like blue, some like green, some even like white. Grey reproduces very differently in different media, so whatever tone we want is fine.


----------



## Proper2

Photoman77 said:


> Question was, 'what color did you paint yours?' Not what opinion of others do you drag uselessly around while trolling. But then, you don't have any work to show here, do you.


Well, to be fair, your comment was a little bit above and beyond 'what color did you paint yours?' It was actually a little bit critical of the opinion of those who prefer the color of the "plastic": <<Matching the plastic is fine if you want a pale green spaceship.>>

But your last comment after that (quoted above) was quite a bit more caustic. But, what do I know? I don't show any of my work here, either. I only have the Master Replicas E and I love the color of the molded plastic on that one--light grey with just a very slight hint of blue-green. That's the color that "I would paint mine."


----------



## J_Indy

This pic of the untouched saucer top always makes me think somebody dropped it in a bowl of dirty green pea soup...

http://www.modelermagic.com/wordpre...03/kg_star-trek_tos_1701_studio_model-044.jpg


----------



## J_Indy

Actually, just noticed something looking through those pics of the E in pieces again....

http://www.modelermagic.com/wordpre...03/kg_star-trek_tos_1701_studio_model-048.jpg

On the left side of the picture is a darkish blue-ish (blue-green?) streak that goes from the edge of the saucer, up to between the N and C, then continues along the hump of the upper saucer.

In filming, this pattern is most visible in a top-down shot used/reused in "The Doomsday Machine (with the Constellation pictured in the background between the E's 2 nacelles and secondary hull) and again in "Tholan Web" (as they build the web).

My guess is that they wanted to highlight the contour of the ship (so it wouldn't look so flat on screen) and took a cue from the makeup guys who use shading under the eyebrows to highlight the contour over the eye (see the over-use of it when Sulu is revived in "City on the Edge of Forever").

Anyway, you wouldn't add the same color if you wanted to visually bring out a contour, so if that highlighting does fall in the blue spectrum, then a logical extrapolation would be that the hull color is not so blue-ish (at least not in near-range blue as that highlighting/contour streak).

Or is that illogical?


----------



## spawndude

Thanks for this color guide.

The part of my brain that processes comparing shades (tone?) (tint?) of a color range is totally nonfunctional. 

I'm absolutely worthless (i.e. wrong) when the wife asks me to help pick matching items/trim for a freshly painted room!

So many times I've picked up an item at a store thinking it would match perfectly with the new room and when I get it home you'd think I was color blind (I'm not). I don't even try anymore.


----------



## J_Indy

Here she is with her mascara highlighter... 

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=wiwrvc&s=8


----------



## Trekkriffic

One thing I've noticed, the color Photoman painted his ship certainly looks like the bluish tint you saw in some of the episodes; although, I've heard that that may have been attributable to blue screen spillover. Regardless, the Enterprise definitely appeared blue from time to time. I have an unbuilt 1/1000 TOS kit I plan to build as the Defiant from "In A Mirror, Darkly". When I do build it, I'm going to try to create the same hull color as Photoman's 1/350.


----------



## J_Indy

Trekkriffic said:


> One thing I've noticed, the color Photoman painted his ship certainly looks like the bluish tint you saw in some of the episodes; although, I've heard that that may have been attributable to blue screen spillover.



Agreed - frankly, the color NEVER looked on screen the way the top of the saucer looks in those disassembled photos.

Don't know how accurate the Newett article is on CultTVMan's site, but if gray tends to absorb colors from it's surroundings, then it may have picked up some tint from the blue-screen - and then when the blue was processed out in the effects shop - we end up with whatever is left (lots of variations from the lighting displayed on a crappy old TV screen).

So - whatever color floats yer boat...


----------



## SteveR

The North American television standard is "NTSC," which is named after the National Television System Committee.

However, engineers and editors have traditionally referred to the standard as "Never The Same Color." 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTSC


----------



## hubert

More than just one color, or perhaps my TV was out of balance. 

As a young man, I loved waiting up until the local CBS station would run TOS in the late '70s; near (or at midnight) during the week. 

I distinctly remember seeing 'Return to Tomorrow' with a green tinted Enterprise. 
How beautiful it looked.

PS - what a magical episode to watch late at night when you are young. 
"Risk is our business... it's what this Starship's about, It's why we're aboard her".


----------



## Fozzie

hubert said:


> I distinctly remember seeing 'Return to Tomorrow' with a green tinted Enterprise.
> How beautiful it looked.
> 
> PS - what a magical episode to watch late at night when you are young.
> "Risk is our business... it's what this Starship's about, It's why we're aboard her".


That is, without a doubt, my favorite "speech" in all of _Star Trek_. The words, the delivery, the swelling music, the expression on Kirk's face--just wonderful from start to finish.


----------



## SteveR

And … the speech.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toG6aSQFF7Y


----------



## RossW

I use that quote all the time when I'm trying to convince my young son to do something physically daring.


----------



## J_Indy

I was waiting for a GREAT speech from Archer on the last episode of "Enterprise" to measure up to that speech from TOS.

Either the writers were intimidated, or - there are no good writers that measure up any more... 

One other speech I really like is when Kirk tries to convince Lt. Palamas to betray Apollo.

"That's how you do it Lieutenant - by remembering who and what you are - a bit of flesh and blood, afloat in a universe without end. And the only thing that's truly yours - is the rest of humanity."






Those speeches tell me that it wasn't a fluke - the writers (for the most part) really were better back then.


----------



## hubert

J_Indy said:


> Those speeches tell me that it wasn't a fluke - the writers (for the most part) really were better back then.


I agree with you (all). The writers in the 60's (IMHO) possibly wrote from life experiences. Some had seen the best (and worst) mankind had to offer. Combined with the actors, music, direction, etc. it still impacts me more than most CGI effects a movie will bring. 

The pendulum has swung hard but it will swing back. I hope I'm still around to see it when it does. Someone will come along - "In every revolution, there's one man with a vision."

BOT. Although I love new effects of TOS, the variation of lighting, post, spillage, etc. made the Enterprise look difference colors at different times. I loved the blues and the above mention 'aqua-marine' I saw when I was younger.

It wasn't that long ago when folks weren't sure what color she really was.


----------



## J_Indy

hubert said:


> "In every revolution, there's one man with a vision."


The earlier line from Spock - "One man cannot summon the future." is so terse and concise - in 9 syllables he completely abdicates all responsibility for participating in his Evil Empire.

They just don't write like that anymore.


----------



## scotthm

J_Indy said:


> They just don't write like that anymore.


That's for sure. Kirk would roll over in his grave if he'd ever heard Janeway's philosophy on space exploration.

(From the end of _Friendship One_: )

JANEWAY: _"I think about our ancestors. Thousands of years wondering if they were alone in the universe, finally discovering they weren't. You can't blame them for wanting to reach out, see how many other species were out there asking the same questions."_

CHAKOTAY: _"The urge to explore is pretty powerful."_

JANEWAY: _*"But it can't justify the loss of lives, whether it's millions or just one."*_

---------------


----------



## spawndude

Despite many detractors I believe Shatner is a really great actor.
He seems to have fun with his acting and doesn't give a rats what others think of his skills. If he was as bad as they say he wouldn't still be getting acting gigs.

At 83 they guy is still around using his acting skills!
I love his Priceline commercials and enjoy watching them over and over. Kaley Cuoco appearing as his daughter has absolutely nothing to do with it! 

I believe his estrangement from his former costars is more about sour grapes on their part. He was focused on his career and what was best for him just as they were focused on their career and what was best for them. He won, they lost.

I've lost some respect for George because of his whinny attitude. Like some little kid who accuses someone of being a bad person just because they don't want to be his BFF. I still like the guy, just not as much.


----------



## J_Indy

spawndude said:


> Despite many detractors I believe Shatner is a really great actor.
> He seems to have fun with his acting and doesn't give a rats what others


I'll go even further and say TOS would not have the longevity it has without him as Kirk.

IMO, I see "Enterprise"s (Scott Bakula) Captain as the way TOS would have turned out if Jeffery Hunter had continued in the role.

Frankly, Shatner's acting range was much broader - he could be dramatic (City on the Edge of Forever), insane (Enemy Within, Mirror Mirror, Turnabout Intruder), comedic (A Piece of the Action), and the range between them.

When he gives the speech to Lt Palamas in "Who Mourns for Adonis", his facial expressions are not stiff and emotionless - they project and add emphasis to his words.

Look at the expressions of Hunter in the pilot - other than a frown he rarely expresses anything.
Contrast that with Shatner as Kirk - the first reaction we see of him in the 2nd pilot is him laughing at what an "irritating" game of chess Spock plays.

Oh yeah - another little speech in TOS is when Kirk says "All I ask is a tall ship, and a star to steer her by".


----------



## hubert

J_Indy said:


> I'll go even further and say TOS would not have the longevity it has without him as Kirk.
> 
> Frankly, Shatner's acting range was much broader - he could be dramatic (City on the Edge of Forever), insane (Enemy Within, Mirror Mirror, Turnabout Intruder), comedic (A Piece of the Action), and the range between them.
> 
> Contrast that with Shatner as Kirk - the first reaction we see of him in the 2nd pilot is him laughing at what an "irritating" game of chess Spock plays.
> 
> Oh yeah - another little speech in TOS is when Kirk says "All I ask is a tall ship, and a star to steer her by".


Good points.


"And the stars are still there.." - The Ultimate Computer is still such a relevant story today and one of my favorites.

We watch everyday as folks carry smartphones with the power of yesterday's workstation; with the connectivity to rival TOS communicator. But at the same time, we talk less to each other; all while workers are being displaced through computer systems & automation. The good and bad effects of technology applied.


----------



## MGagen

My favorite speech is Kirk to Zephram Cochrane in _Metamorphosis._:

"We're on a thousand planets and spreading out. We cross fantastic distances. And everything's alive, Cochrane; life everywhere. We estimate that there are millions of planets with intelligent life. We haven't begun to map them. Interested?"

It has a lot to do with the classic Shatnerian delivery, but it always gives me goosebumps. If only those who came to control the franchise afterwards had the slightest inkling of this idea about the nature of Trek...

M.


----------



## J_Indy

MGagen said:


> My favorite speech is Kirk to Zephram Cochrane in _Metamorphosis._:
> 
> "We're on a thousand planets and spreading out. We cross fantastic distances. And everything's alive, Cochrane; life everywhere. We estimate that there are millions of planets with intelligent life. We haven't begun to map them. Interested?"


Almost forgot about that one - had to go back and watch it again.

Shatner, despite critics, could be very subtle. In "Shore Leave" he portrays fatigue on his face very well when Spock reads the status of a "crew member" to him. When he realizes he's been tricked, he doesn't gesticulate or say a word - the look in his eyes tells you what he is thinking ("...sneaky s.o.b...." or something of that nature ))


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## hubert

RossW said:


> I use that quote all the time when I'm trying to convince my young son to do something physically daring.


And one of my favorites is to remind my family (young girls) --

"Stonn. She is yours. After a time, you may find that having is not so pleasing a thing, after all, as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true"

Oh, how I have to temper expectations, even within myself.

But they usually reply with "...and don't call me Stonn". :freak:


BTW -- I found this link funny before.. Especially when Daniel Day Lewis portrayed Honest Abe. 
So impressive for a quote from TOS which has fooled folks for years...

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2003/12/01/034/95036/media/Fake-Abraham-Lincoln-Quotes


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## PixelMagic

I keep coming back to this thread thinking there is more discussion on the topic of the thread. How foolish of me.


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## hubert

PixelMagic said:


> I keep coming back to this thread thinking there is more discussion on the topic of the thread. How foolish of me.


Silver - metalizer. Looks like manure.


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## J_Indy

What happened was a forum version of a "Flash Mob"


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## Trek Ace

In defense of Bill Shatner, he was the star of the show, which is also referred to as the "money player". As the lead, he had the stress of the success of the show always riding on his shoulders - particularly in the early episodes of the first season, before Spock had really caught on with the public and became a cultural icon. If the viewers didn't buy him as Kirk and believe in his character early on - the show would have died an early death.

While the rest of the cast was played into the success of the show as it matured, Shatner had to carry the true weight and stress to sell Kirk and the show to the viewers at home from day one, and he took it very seriously. He nailed that character perfectly the first scene of the first day of shooting on the second pilot. He WAS Kirk. His sole purpose was to make that show a success - and he did so with perfection - and I thank him for it to this day, as we all should.


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## modelmaker 2001

How do I report another member using photos of my models and posting them as his own model? Photoman 77's photos of the Deadelus class ship are actually of my own model. I have NOT built the 1/350 scale TOS Enterprise so I can't speak to whether he has actually built that himself or not.


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## Proper2

modelmaker 2001 said:


> How do I report another member using photos of my models and posting them as his own model? Photoman 77's photos of the Deadelus class ship are actually of my own model. I have NOT built the 1/350 scale TOS Enterprise so I can't speak to whether he has actually built that himself or not.


Wow, seriously? There's a small red exclamation mark icon at the top-right of each post. You could go to the post that shows your pilfered pic and click that icon to report the post.


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## Griffworks

modelmaker 2001 said:


> How do I report another member using photos of my models and posting them as his own model? Photoman 77's photos of the Deadelus class ship are actually of my own model. I have NOT built the 1/350 scale TOS Enterprise so I can't speak to whether he has actually built that himself or not.


I believe the post to which you are referring is this one, yes? 

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showpost.php?p=4729335&postcount=137

If so, I edited it to conclude with the closing Quotes HTML. Taken in the context of his previous and past posts in this thread, I was left with the impression that he's only using your model pics as a reference to the color of paint he's planning on using. I've re-read it three times and I don't see where he's actually claiming the images belong to you.


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## Trekkriffic

I think modelmaker may be referring to the Daedalus shown in post #152 Griff. Photoman refers to it as his model.


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## Proper2

The Daedalus pics on Flickr are actually of a different model than the one shown on post #152. In either case it appears that Photoman is claiming that the pics are of his ship--the ones on Flickr he claims: "Here is my own partly scratch/partly kit bashed 'Deadelus/ Horizon" class starship.'" And the one on post #152 he has signed with his initials, PDH and ©2014. I think that modelmaker is talking about post #152.


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## Griffworks

OK. I'd not read all the way to that post, just those immediately before and after post #137. My initial reaction to this thread was because MM2001 had used the REPORT POST function and reported #137, not #152. 

I'd not seen the blatant use of profanity, either. 

*modelmaker2001* - can you please point me to previous posts with your work in them? I'm wanting to cover all my bases before I take further action on this issue, so please don't take offense. I've previously taken such action, only to later find out that I was wrong to have done so. It doesn't have to be on this forum, just so long as I can ascertain that any such pics are definitely _not_ *Photoman77's*. Once that's done, it'll get handled. 

Thanks for the Report, as well as the responses from others. I guess we were due for a bit more drama to come up, as it's been awfully quiet around here of late.


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## Proper2

Griffworks said:


> I'd not seen the blatant use of profanity, either.


Post #160.


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## Griffworks

Yes, that's exactly to what I was referring - and referencing. Thanks for pointing it out, but it was handled at about the same time. I'm surprised someone didn't report it when it occurred.


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## PixelMagic

Griffworks said:


> Yes, that's exactly to what I was referring - and referencing. Thanks for pointing it out, but it was handled at about the same time. I'm surprised someone didn't report it when it occurred.


It was directed at me, but I just ignored it instead of throwing more fuel on the fire.


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## modelmaker 2001

It looks like that original post (137) has been addressed and edited to correct the false attribution/claim. I don't see any other photos of other models that I've built which he has posted as models of his own.
Thank you!


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## Griffworks

I don't think that *Photoman77* was making a false claim. I think it was just a bad quote job, which lots of folks do all the time.


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## modelmaker 2001

I'm going to assume the best and accept your theory, Griffworks. I've seen so many people on so many social media sites who don't know how to write that your explanation is plausible.

Photoman 77 actually quoted what I wrote in my Flickr photo stream regarding my model and the colors that I used. 

I have to use spray can colors since I can't afford a good airbrush and cheap airbrushes just infuriate me since they do such a lousy job. The Tamiya AS-5 Light Blue Luftwaffe actually looks like a greenish blue-grey in white daylight. Indoors at night under incandescent light it looks much more greenish. 

Since I live just outside of Washington, DC I have taken some of my little 1/1000 Enterprise models down to the National Air and Space Museum to compare my finished model color to the actual 11 foot studio model. It's difficult to be certain of a color match since the primary hull and starboard port side are so heavily weathered. My AS-5 painted models are a fairly close match with the unweathered port side of the secondary hull, though slightly more blueish and less neutral than the 11 foot model's blueish greenish grey. However, since the entire 11 foot model has been repainted several times (except for the top of the primary hull) I'm not relying on the unweathered port side as an indisputable gold standard. Therefore, that leaves me with the upper primary hull, with one cannot see very well and which is also weathered to some extent.

It's not a good match to the "concrete" color but - with weathering - the AS-5 painted model are very nearly spot on with the color of the top of the primary hull as far as I can see.


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## modelmaker 2001

Some more photos of the 11 foot model that I took. You can see how difficult it is to take photos of the top of the primary hull. Making a color match even right there in person is not an exact science due to lighting, glare, and the fact that I have to stand on tippy toes to peer over the edge of the primary hull.


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## trdncik

I been really liking this color even more Photman77. I been working on this model for almost 5 months now. I shot it with the Grey, it looked good, but seeing yours makes me want to lean towards AS-5. The stripe on the neck, should it be a different color than the one Polar Lights tells you what to paint? I gotten ride of the grid lines, but I like the detail you put in to your model! Can you give me some tips? I likes the faded lines on the nacelles and body. What kind of product did you use to simulate soot?


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## modelmaker 2001

Personally, since I don't have an airbrush, I use colored pencils and washes to weather my small scale models like the 1:1000 scale Enterprise and the Nostromo. On large scale models like the Nautilus, HO scale trains and buildings (1:87 scale) and larger scales I also use ground chalk dust, too. It's very good at simulating rust, soot, algae, moss, salt deposits, etc.


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## ClubTepes

ClubTepes said:


> The purpose of this thread is to help others decide what colors to paint their PL 1/350 TOS Enterprise.
> There are so many threads by people building their kits, that hopefully this will consolidate the painting end of things.
> 
> Let me get this straight - this thread is NOT to diminish from Gary's research on the ACTUAL colors of the filming miniature.
> 
> But rather to explore all the colors that people have painted their own kits based on how the Enterprise looked to them onscreen or how they think it should look.
> 
> Most people know, that colors painted onto a studio model, don't translate exactly to the big or small screen due to the various filming processes.
> 
> So with all that said. I encourage people to post pictures of their model with a description of their paints used and any relevant process.
> 
> I would also ask that people who haven't painted theirs yet - refrain from what your 'going' to use until you have an example to show.
> 
> The best way to get the 'truest' representation of your color, is to use (or take) a picture of your model that was either taken outdoors or taken close to a window without other lighting influences affecting the color.
> 
> Also, your model also doesn't have to be the 1/350 kit. Any scale kit can be used to illustrate your color.
> 
> I admit that I am at a bit of a quandary about what color I plan to use on mine and perhaps this thread will help me and hopefully others.


Well, that was a year and a half ago.
Lots of people either contributed or I happened to notice builds on other threads and decided to include the results here.

Just like how the Enterprise color changed from TV set to TV set, the colors that people also used to paint their ships also may not have translated well from their own personal lighting scenario to the type of camera that they used onto each of our monitors.
So then, a color that someone may have used might have looked great on your monitor, but if you actually went out and bought that color, you may have been very disappointed when you sprayed that color onto your model.

To that end, out of a desire to decide on a color myself and to help others, I went out and got a sample of each color that people used.
I then also tried to make as controlled of an example as possible.
Meaning, color samples shot on the same sized plastic card, over the same type of primer. Then photographed together in the same lighting conditions, with the bare plastic as a common color reference that everyone who has a kit, has on hand.

Here are the results.

01. Group shot.


02. The Tamiya spray group.


03. The Testors Model Master Group.


Since Krylon and my custom 17 color blend were stand alones, I didn't do a group shot.

BUT..........
Here is everything assembled for comparison and contrast.


Now compared to the kit plastic.
At this point, you can start to see what direction each takes from the kit plastic.


At this point, if interested, one can tweek the color of the kit plastic in the photograph, to match on their monitor what they see of the actual kit plastic, giving them a better idea of the shading.






On to part 2.


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## ClubTepes

*Part 2 - Accent colors.*

Here are the suggested accent colors.


Accents included with basic hull candidates.


Just in my opinion, but the accents seem to work best with the basic hull color as prescribed by Gary Kerr in the instructions and colors closest to the color of the base plastic, like the Tamiya AS-5.



Which makes perfect sense, as this was a chosen color palette.
If you start going to other colors (lacking a green component) then the accents don't seem to fit well and you might want to choose alternative accents that better fit your hull color.



On to Part 3.


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## ClubTepes

*Part 3.*

Finally here is a pic that included a copper color.
I wish I created a pure copper color sample using colors from Testors, Alclad, etc. But alas I didn't. I did spray Alclad copper, but found it too 'pure'.

What I did create was a copper, brass 50/50 mix that I sort of like.

Here it is mixed in with everything else.




No one color is better than any other.
Its all a matter of personal choice.

What I did find though, was that some colors looked great in peoples photographs, but to me (my opinion) when I sprayed them, didn't match what I saw in someone's photo, and If I had sprayed a whole model, I would have been sorely disappointed.

Next (if anyones interested) my color.


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## ClubTepes

Colors can look weird on computer monitors.
Color settings, ambient light in the room, brightness, can all affect how you interpret color.
So what I decided to do was collect every image of a constitution class ship that I felt worthy, and I took them out and had them printed.
I ended up with 43 images.

I then grouped them into different views, side, front 3/4, rear 3/4, etc.

After that, I picked the image I thought best from each view.
Since I also had a Master Replicas Enterprise, I also took that into consideration, as any color I decide upon, I didn't want it to not blend with what they did, and also gave them the benefit of the doubt that their color may be the best one as well.



A long time ago, I started making 'dipping' color chips. I cut plastic small enough to dip into a jar of paint, to get a basic idea of the color.
I took a series of these and overlaid them onto the pictures that I had printed out. Seeing where they fell into the image - did they fall into an overexposed or underexposed area of the image, or did they fall into a sweet spot of what I considered to be proper exposure.

My first pass at color chips.


I wanted to see how each color behaved over Tamiya fine surface primer and then also over black, and silver bases (to see what tonal differences I might get for any aztecing I might want to do).



As I narrowed in on what I wanted, I sprayed test shot pieces with colors and because everything was in the same scale, I could overlay the B/C deck part over the MR B/C deck area and get a really good idea of how the color was behaving.







In the end, using a 'grandma's style of cooking' I think I wound up with a concoction of around 12 or so colors.
Then as a variant for any possible aztecing I might want to do, I divided the group in half and added a touch more chrome to one batch.

In the end, I'm pretty happy with it, and as a bonus, it seemed to color shift less in photographs than some of the other colors.

Of course this is simply my opinion.
I will say that if your interested, but don't want to buy a ton of paint, my colors closest match was Testors MM Light Gray #2038.

Now on to building one for myself


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## Fozzie

ClubTepes said:


> I will say that if your interested, but don't want to buy a ton of paint, my colors closest match was Testors MM Light Gray #2038.


That happens to be the color I went with for my build. I was very happy with it!


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## ClubTepes

Fozzie said:


> That happens to be the color I went with for my build. I was very happy with it!


Ultimately, people have to decide if they want to go for the 'studio look' where the colors were chosen to look a certain way ON FILM, or pick colors that remind them of how they remember it looking on TV.

If the studio look is your thing, then I think Gary's mix or the Tamiya AS-5 are the closest choices.

Its sort of the same battle with TIE fighters.......
Go with the studio intermediate blue, or the on screen gray.
On that, I'm leaning towards the original, non-remastered (contrast enhanced) gray.
My memories of that color are very specific.


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## RossW

ClubTepes said:


> I will say that if your interested, but don't want to buy a ton of paint, my colors closest match was Testors MM Light Gray #2038.


Mike - is the B/C deck on the left in this photo painted with MM Light Gray #2038? I think that really captures the look I'm aiming for as well (at least, in how the photo looks on my monitor). I was going to do a custom mix of Tamiya XF19 lightened with XF2 and a touch of XF8 to bring the tone over to the blue-ish side.


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## ClubTepes

^^^^
Some of those pictures were taken over a year ago.
I think the B/C deck on the left were two different shades of my custom colors.
The picture makes it look like the right side of the part was slightly overexposed. But in reality, the right side of that part is a lighter tint of the color.

I think the part on the right was Tamiya AS-2.


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## modelmaker 2001

Thank you very much for the comparison of different colors! I'm going with Tamiya AS-5 which is the base hull color that I've also used to the 1:1000 scale Enterprise and the K-7 space station. Here's how mine is looking thus far in overcast daylight ...,


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## KUROK

Very thorough analysis clubtepes. Thank you!
I like a lighter shade with just a touch of green.


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## Trekkriffic

modelmaker 2001 said:


> Thank you very much for the comparison of different colors! I'm going with Tamiya AS-5 which is the base hull color that I've also used to the 1:1000 scale Enterprise and the K-7 space station. Here's how mine is looking thus far in overcast daylight ...,


Lovely. If I ever aztec one I'd want it to look like that!


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## SteveR

Great work, ClubTepes!


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## Jafo

And that's why he's called MR. X.........


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## ClubTepes

^^^^

No John.......

Thats why I can never finish anything.


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## RossW

Did a little paint mixing test last night and I'm really happy with this combo:

XF-19 (sky gray) + XF-2 (flat white) + XF-8 (flat blue)

I mixed in about 5 drops of the white to the gray and then added 1 drop of blue. To my eye, it's a lighter version of the spraycan AS5 (light blue). I prefer a slight blue-ish tinge than green to my gray.


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## kekker

I got the IJN gray, and mixed with a fair amount of white. It seemed both too dark and too green, so I added a little bit of NATO black and a lot more white. Sorry - no "XX drops of this, YY drops of that"... I did it by eye.

It worked out to be fairly light gray, with a not too saturated green tinge. It went on nicely, and it looks pretty close to the top of the E in the Smithsonian.

I used chalk pastels to do the weathering, using the pre-restoration photos. The ones taken at the Smithsonian as they were disassembling it. I went overboard, especially on the blue-green streaking. Handy hint: pastels will wash off with soap and water! By doing it carefully, it knocked them back to visible-but-not-garish, and they looked great.

Then of course I knocked off the port nacelle three times running. :freak:

Kev


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## sunburn800

Only 3 times? you must be slipping.


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