# Monorails, anyone?



## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

Lately, I've been interested in the Disney monorail sets, both the recent battery-operated ones, and the Schucos. Anyone have any experience with those? Would it be feasible to electrify the newer sets?


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

I have the new monorail Red set and from the looks of it it would be hard to switch to electric.

I'm also working on a MkI/ MkII in G scale with the idea of using it for a backyard railroad. If that works then a new MkVII will be next.

Anyone with info or photos of the monorails???


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

swhite228 said:


> I have the new monorail Red set and from the looks of it it would be hard to switch to electric.


I am guessing the hardest part would be adding conductors to the track. I was wondering if copper tape placed on the track sides might work.


swhite228 said:


> I'm also working on a MkI/ MkII in G scale with the idea of using it for a backyard railroad. If that works then a new MkVII will be next.


What materials are you using in constructing your monorail trains? 


swhite228 said:


> Anyone with info or photos of the monorails???


I could use those, too.


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

The whole toy is made for batteries. You would need to change motors,rewire the sound board(which clicks and is too loud), and replace the flashing light on the top(they use a green led which needs to be changed to yellow or white, along with a new flashing circuit that flashes at the correct speed.).
Then add the pickups. For the track copper tape might work, but the side wheels sometimes don't turn so they might tear the tape. You might want to look into the double electrical tape used in doll house building on the top of the rail.

The G scale monorail will being made using carved wooden molds that will be molded in RTV then the bodies will be cast in resin, and detailed. The track looks like it will be milled 1x2s with inlayed conductors. For the sound I have the entire DL recorded script as heard in the 60's on the monorails in mp3 form. The pylons might be cast cement as there will be one about every 20 inches and it'd be easy to make up a few molds for them and cast them in mass.

I will be more than happy to share my info and photos with anyone who wants to try this.

Heck if folks are interested I'd be happy to see a group build here, or I could host it at Studio Scale Modelers on ezboard.
Scott


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

swhite228 said:


> The whole toy is made for batteries. You would need to change motors,rewire the sound board(which clicks and is too loud), and replace the flashing light on the top(they use a green led which needs to be changed to yellow or white, along with a new flashing circuit that flashes at the correct speed.). Then add the pickups.


I am actually confronting a similar problem, with my battery loco bashes. I'm thinking there may be some onboard solutions that will allow the lower voltage battery motors to run on the variable 12 volt output from a standard HO power pack.



swhite228 said:


> For the track copper tape might work, but the side wheels sometimes don't turn so they might tear the tape. You might want to look into the double electrical tape used in doll house building on the top of the rail.


Thanks for the tip, regarding the guide wheels. If nothing else, I can imagine the extra friction and noise that situation might lead to. Also, the additional wear on the plastic rails. I like your idea of the double-conductor tape; I need to check that out. 



swhite228 said:


> The G scale monorail will being made using carved wooden molds that will be molded in RTV then the bodies will be cast in resin, and detailed. The track looks like it will be milled 1x2s with inlayed conductors. For the sound I have the entire DL recorded script as heard in the 60's on the monorails in mp3 form. The pylons might be cast cement as there will be one about every 20 inches and it'd be easy to make up a few molds for them and cast them in mass.


One other neat thing about monorails is the extra layout freedom in the vertical dimension, given the traction of the rubber road wheels.



swhite228 said:


> I will be more than happy to share my info and photos with anyone who wants to try this.
> 
> Heck if folks are interested I'd be happy to see a group build here, or I could host it at Studio Scale Modelers on ezboard.
> Scott


Sounds like a neat challenge! I can't seem to stop thinking of ways to build the Alweg trains in Tommy's burger box cardstock... :thumbsup:


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

Another thing that occurs to me, is the potential for multi-train operation on a single track, and multiple functions on each train, without DCC. The original Disneyland track beam had two conductors on the one side only. Schuco had one on each side. With two on each side, you have six independent circuits, on each track route. 

With three conductors per side, you jump to fifteen independent circuits. Let's say you run three trains on each track route at the same time. That gives you five separate circuits per train. Use one for speed and direction; one for a remote horn, announcements, and whatever other sound effects; and one for lighting control. You still have two unused channels, per train. If you have a two track line, the trains running the other way have the same functional situation, since it is a separate route.

Also, as long as there are the same number of conductors on each side of the rail, the special polarity reversing required at wyes and reverse loops will be no more complicated, than with a two-rail train layout. 

Submitted, for your consideration...


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

I have been trying to convert some photos of Disney Mk I models to drawings, using the descriptive geometry from my engineering graphics class, but it has been a few decades, and I'm fumbling and stumbling a bit. Still, I'm encouraged by the results so far.

Beyond the Disneyland model, I have been thinking of a simpler track rail system. To me, one potential advantage of a monorail over a conventional railroad is cheaper, easier, and faster to lay track. I figure to make a model, to illustrate what I come up with.


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

Hey Roy,
Sorry, I've been busy. A former member of the Space1999 Modelers group at Yahoo, has started posting links to a new group using our name- an "s" and with our groups home page photo and colors. Some folks are just sad!

I like the idea for multiple trains on the same beam- I just don't have the energy or knowledge to do the electronics. Heck, I'm pushing it with the audio playback of the MkI naration and a flashing light! 

The beam itself changes at Disneyland and Disney World depending on when and who did the work. The old Alweg I beams are slowly being replaced by the newer rectangle shaped beams. That's why I'm looking into using 1x2 boards with light milling for the track for the G scale outdoor model I'm working on. Contact on each side. thin coat of Weld Bond and fine sand on top for traction. The fun part is that an 8ft board = 3 beam lengths with a collum every 18.75 inches. This changes in the curves but hey that's what makes model building fun. Stay tune for the the chart! It will help with your work. I will also try and get the scan of the MkI from the traning manual done tonight or tomorrow for you.

Scott


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

*Mk.I the basics*

Ok table time...be warned that I could be off on some of the numbers due to lack of information!

MkI
years 59-61
length of train-88ft.
Front and Rear Car length-30ft.
Middle Car Length-24ft.
Space between Cars 2ft.
Car Height-14ft 5in.* could be very wrong!* Looks to be 10ft tall when drawing in the Operatin Procedur manual is scaled up.
Car Width- 10ft 3in.
Train Make Up- 1 front car, 1 Middle Car, 1 End car
Color(s)- Red followed by Blue. Stainless Steel panels on the sides of all

Beam Size-20in Wide X34.5 High**Disney Beams Are Smaller Than Normal Alweg Beams* *
Disney World Bombarier beams-80in ends, 48in middle x 26in wide(arch shapped)
Dual Track Construction- Beams on 12ft centers.
Column Size* Varies* standard Disney sizes are 5ft, 20ft, 25ft and 30ft tall.
Column Spaceing- 50ft.

So my G scale model will come in as follows:
Train Length-33in
Beam Size- Alweg.62in high x 1.08 tall
Bombarier-1.67in high x .54in wide(1in in the middle)
Columns range from 1.25in to 7.5in tall spaced 18.75in apart.

The MkVI trains running currently would come in at 76.31 in G scale.

Not listed are Radius beams which are shorter than regular.
Beam nd general monorail info from Monorail.org

Hope this helps!


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

Thanks for the info, Scott. 

I read somewhere that the original Disneyland-Alweg trains, as well as the steam trains, were built to 5/8 of full-size(just like Hollywood sets). I have also heard that the Mark VI trains running now at WDW are tall enough for adults to stand. I wonder if that will be true, of the new Disneyland retro-look Mark VIIs? 









Artist illustration from monorail.org


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

*MkI Drawings*

[IMG-LEFT]http://images19.fotki.com/v19/photos/9/969095/4069630/frontHighwayinthesky029-vi.jpg[/IMG-LEFT]


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

[IMG-LEFT]http://images18.fotki.com/v86/photos/9/969095/4069630/back-vi.jpg[/IMG-LEFT]


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

The above drawings are out of Highway in the Sky, which was the trainning manual given to the DisneyLand employees who worked on the monorails.

They are also drawn to scale and can be enlarged or reduced as needed!

The whole manual is posted at my fotki site if you want
Scott


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

toyroy said:


> Thanks for the info, Scott.
> 
> I read somewhere that the original Disneyland-Alweg trains, as well as the steam trains, were built to 5/8 of full-size(just like Hollywood sets). I have also heard that the Mark VI trains running now at WDW are tall enough for adults to stand. I wonder if that will be true, of the new Disneyland retro-look Mark VIIs?
> 
> ...



Yep! Alot of stuff at Disney is shrunk. Remember John Wayne was 3ft 5in and rode a Shetland Pony.  

And yes to the standing. The original hight on the above turns out to be a MkVI. Disney is going to keep the new monorail as high as it is now.


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

Thanks again, Scott.

These drawings seem to show a window in the front door, just behind the nose, on both the lead and trailing cars. Could these be Mark IIIs?


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

swhite228 said:


> ...The original hight on the above turns out to be a MkVI...


Would you clarify this for me, please?


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

toyroy said:


> Would you clarify this for me, please?





> Car Height-14ft 5in.* could be very wrong!* Looks to be 10ft tall when drawing in the Operatin Procedur manual is scaled up.


At the start of my search for infirmation on the monorails I discovered that information on the Disney trains was harder to find than a correct kit list for most studio scale models. I aslo found Disney information and other info would varies by up to 4ft on the same subject.

The MkI was 88ft long
2"end cars" at 30ft ea
1"insert car" at 24ft ea
2 spacers at 2ft. ea

The MkII was 110ft by Disney material, yet the length was 114.
2 "end cars" at 30ft ea
2 "insert car" at 24ft ea
3 spacers at 2ft. ea

Everyone says the difference between the trains is the addition of 1 car to each and adding Monorail Yellow(Gold) to the fleet.

No height was ever given on these . The 14.5ft number was from a chart at Monorail.org which turns out is for the MkVI.

 The drawings are in fact after reading the booklet MkII era which is strange as I thought the pilot bubble and body modifications were done on the MkIII.
Yet all the photos and talk in the book is pointed at operation of a 3 train 1 beamway system. All Monorails pictured are 4 cars long. and missing the back"tail lights" which were removed because they kept getting knocked off on one of the turns.

The MkIII-122ft***I don't even want to think how they add a car and only gain 8ft over all 

If you have different info please let me know. It's starting to look like I need to buy one of the MR Monorails to measure.
Scott

*OK I'M BEGGIN HERE SOMEBODY HELP US OUT*


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

swhite228 said:


> ...The MkI was 88ft long
> 2"end cars" at 30ft ea
> 1"insert car" at 24ft ea
> 2 spacers at 2ft. ea...
> ...


Scott,
I really appreciate YOUR help, here! I am not so good at getting info from the web. My brain just keeps giving me the wrong search terms. 

Anyhow, I've been using photos of the 1/48 MR models, and the 1/90 Schuco models, as the basis for my descriptive geometry efforts. One thing I've found, is that the middle cars are proportionally shorter, compared with the end units. 24/30=.8, whereas measurements from my "massaged" photos indicate a proportion closer to .62. Doing the math gives an end car length of 32', and middle car length of 20', assuming the diaphragms are 2' each. However, that renders a car height of only about 8' 7".


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

OK, here is one "illustration" I've cobbled together. It is based on a photo of a MR model of a Mk I head-end car:










Click on the thumbnail below, and enlarge, to see the full-size image. The color is off, due to processing necessary to bring out the car top, and bubble outline. I synthesized the middle and end cars. The middle car length is estimated based on apparently similar window width, and body length from the end of the car, to the window. 

However, this gives an even shorter middle car, than my other observations indicated(as given in my previous post):

End car length-33' 3 1/2"
Middle car length-18' 7 1/4"
Diaphragm length-1' 4 3/4"


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

Roy watch the 2 models they are very different if you look closely!









Front car









vs.










Middle car









* I don't have a photo of the MR

End Car








vs.










Of the 2 I'd go with the MR as a base for reference.


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

Shots of the bottom of the Schuco trains

Rear no motor









Front with motor









MR trains
MR cockpit









MR front










Building the MkI at Disney








Notice the rear and middle car boggies are not powered.


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

Here is a wooden model of the Alweg Monorail in Washington


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

Scott,
Thanks for the various pix, especially the MR model end view. 

The wood Seattle toy is an interesting combination monorail/cable car!

About the Schuco: are the road wheels part of the swiveling trucks, or mounted to the car body?


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## beeblebrox (Jul 30, 2003)

Check out this thread:
http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=126419
I'm guessing Will (Wbnemo1) might have some usefull info. :thumbsup:


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

beeblebrox said:


> Check out this thread:
> http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=126419
> I'm guessing Will (Wbnemo1) might have some usefull info. :thumbsup:


Thank you!


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

beeblebrox said:


> Check out this thread:
> http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=126419
> I'm guessing Will (Wbnemo1) might have some usefull info. :thumbsup:



Beeblebrox
Thank you!!!!!
I knew I'd seen that post somewhere here! I was getting ready to ask in the sci-fi area if anyone had info on the MkI.

Ok Roy,
The Seattle Alweg monorail toy is cool! I didn't read the box when it was auctioned on E bay. I lost the toy, but the winner contacted me because he didn't want it after he saw it.

When you put the thing together it's 5 ft long, and you run a string between the cars. At each end the string goed through an eye screw, so when you pull one car the other goes the opposite direction. 

The Schuco road wheels are part od the body and do not swivel.

and lastly.....you want to contact Wbnemo1 and ask about the monorail or should I?
Scott


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## beeblebrox (Jul 30, 2003)

I'm just amazed that I pulled that old thread out of my limited memory capacity!


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## Wbnemo1 (Aug 22, 1999)

Howdy,
I see you found my old thread on the MK1. She was a dream for Myself and Rich to build. I talked with Bob Gurr on many a night on this train. Rich Allsmiller would get the info by email, Mac to MAc vrs my pc, and send it to me and I would change the drawings and dimensions accordingly. I started out with some amazing drawings of the mk2, not the ones posted here, but actual studio drawings of the MK2. I searched for MK1 drawings, but Bob assured me they never did em if memory serves. It really didn't matter anyway, as the MK2 was a converted MK1. They changed the driver bubble to a driver passenger bubble, and added a car making it a four car train, as opposed to a 3. I originally scratch built a complete boggie wheel and stabilizer wheel system for the entire master pattern, again based of drawings and photo reference. the MR train should be exactly 21.929" long including the two sets of bellows between passenger cars. The cabs are identical on the exterior and mirrored on the interior, as this was the way Bob explained it and my reference agreed. The Mk1 trains were tiny compared to todays' Disney monorails. You had to duck to step in and if you were lucky enough to ride up front, the floor inclined and the observation dome(canopy) sloped downward making it difficult to ride up there. The very first MK1's had no passenger train car windows, if it rained, you got wet.
Best,
Will


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## Wbnemo1 (Aug 22, 1999)

a couple pic links


http://i1.tinypic.com/o0wlft.jpg

http://i1.tinypic.com/o0wm5d.jpg


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

Wbnemo1 said:


> Howdy,
> ...I started out with some amazing drawings of the mk2...actual studio drawings...I searched for MK1 drawings, but Bob (Gurr) assured me they never did em...


Hi Will,
Again, it is really enlightening, to talk with someone who _knows_! Thanks, for giving our efforts a boost.

I have to ask: have you gotten a lot of email from model builders who are converting your masterpiece to powered, working models? And, did the possibility of such a conversion, factor in to the choice of scale?


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

Scott,
Here is a typical cross section I derived, primarily, from your front view pic. This version is in scale with my previously posted side view. The original is about four times larger, if you would like it.


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

A big THANK YOU to both of you!

Will welcome!


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## Wbnemo1 (Aug 22, 1999)

Howdy Roy ,Scott and all,
The drawings you have shown in this thread are indeed from the "Highway in the Sky "SOP Manual. they are a make shift sketch of the MK2 train, however nothing that could be used to actually make a model. I'm doing something here I would normally never do. I'm showing everyone a blurred tech drawing, which I had to come up with in order the patterns to be made. Please respect my many hours of intense research and drafting work and do not copy this information or share it without my permission...with that in mind hope ya like it.....
Will


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

Wbnemo,
Again Thanks! 
Thanks, Thanks, Thanks!


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

WOW! thanks, Will!


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## Wbnemo1 (Aug 22, 1999)

You're welcome. All I ask is, no reprinting of this work without my permission...
Will


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

A few thoughts, on monorail trackage. There are three commercial systems I know of: Schuco and E-R HO-scale electric(that is, power passes through conductors on the rail to the model), and Disney's S scale(?) solid-plastic track. As far as I know, they are all mutually incompatible, strictly sectional(fixed turn radii), and expensive.

I'd like to come up with a cheap, do-it-yourself-able alternative. It would also be nice to have a flex track which can be bent to shape, and maintain it. This would primarily benefit the many temporary monorail layouts. One idea along this line is to take advantage of the single rail, and mount the conductors vertically. I'm thinking of using something as basic, as galvanized wire. 

I like to think of toy train track as if it is a building set toy. Just as Erector parts can be disassembled and reassembled in many interesting ways, one can use track to construct geometrically fascinating designs, which can be changed around at will. I see even more potential for monorail trackage as a building toy, on account of it's greater simplicity. For instance, it is much simpler to change level vertically, compared with railroad track.


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

There were several Monorail sets marketed.
Kenner's Sky Rail, Lego and Rokenbok are 3 that come to mind as expandable. 

Others were expandable if you, your dad, or older brother was savy enough to do some basic metal/ and wood work. Sets like The Jet Express, The Star Master, The Lin-Mar Rocket Express,to name a few. Most of those had "Hanging Cars", cars that were suspended below the track. The track there was usually just steel wire that a groved wheel followed. 

Then there were a few where the car just ran back and forth on a string, the Win Mac AMT Monorail for example.

Of the 3 big sets today only the Rokenbok and Disney sets are still being made.
The E-R was made for the company by Life Like if I got the story right. I've been told they stopped making the sets in mid 2005. 

The Schuco set has been gone for years almost 40 years.
The lego set came out in 1987 I don't know when production stopped.

As the tracks go I think only the Disney Track lends it self to the flex track idea. Thats why if you look you can find all sorts of track pieces that Disney never made for sale on the bay! 

Here is a link for the: 

Rokenbok


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## Wbnemo1 (Aug 22, 1999)

Hey gang,
You all forgot a true straddle beam monorail, the Remco Speedrail, which by the way, was my very first electric train set as a little boy.I think I had just turned 6m and it was a Christmas gift. It ran a figure 8 and even had a" tunnel "..fun stuff. The pickups were incaseed on top of the trak just like a normal track with the exception, there were no ties.
Best,
Will


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

The monorail systems I mentioned are straddle-beam types, more scale-oriented, and, I figured, the ones probably most played with, at least by us grown-ups. Yes, Tomy makes some, too. I've seen all sorts of monorail sets from the wayback; mostly tinplate, mostly suspended-type. 

I'm just starting w/ monorails. I have a VERY broad palate, for track toys. 

I'm approaching monorail models as a do-it-yourself modeler, rather than as a collector. I've already got a thing for electric trains, and Hot Wheels. I'm trying to get more satisfaction, through actual creation of the things I love.

As for flex track, I'll never forget that three-rail O gauge track, that literally rolled up into a tight coil! It used a sort of chain-like telescopic tubular rail, and looked like it would make quite a racket, if one actually ran trains on it. After that, I don't have much doubt about the possibilities for flex track...


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## Wbnemo1 (Aug 22, 1999)

ok sorry, when but you mentioned the Rokenbok monorail i thought you were talking all monos, I definitly don't consider that mono scale to anything, my opinion of course though. Now I do have a Disney friend
that made a "O" scale MK6 monorail. It's very neat, even has a true bus bar, postive and negative, and brass pick up shoes....it was mentioned about the Disneyland mono beam way being updated..is this true????
As far as I know, they still run the old beamway from back in the 60's, got some pics????
Best,
Will


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

I wasn't bashing the Lego and Rokenbok toys, or any others. I took a close looksee at one of the Lego airport jobs-pretty sleek! I just thought adult operators would gravitate to the closer-to-scale stuff. 

I'm not too keen on the Lego beamway, though. It seems more like a narrow road, w/ a rail down the center. As for the real Disneyland beamway, all I've heard is that they sandblasted the white paint off of it. I know the monorails are down while they are working on the Little Nemo's sub thingy. And, as I'm sure you know, the new Bob Gurr designed Mk VIIs are supposed to debut next year. Last time I rode a monorail at Disneyland, the Mk IIIs were new.


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

> Hey gang,
> You all forgot a true straddle beam monorail, the Remco Speedrail, which by the way, was my very first electric train set as a little boy.I think I had just turned 6m and it was a Christmas gift. It ran a figure 8 and even had a" tunnel "..fun stuff. The pickups were incaseed on top of the trak just like a normal track with the exception, there were no ties.


Sorry about that! while gathering what little info there is on the Disney sets I also gathered info on 20 monorail sets and toys, the Remco being 1 of them. I also found 2 different articles from train magazines in the 50's with do it your self plans.



> it was mentioned about the Disneyland mono beam way being updated..is this true????
> As far as I know, they still run the old beamway from back in the 60's, got some pics????


Disneyland has the old Alweg style beam but the newer parts of the park have an updated version which I've heard is a little bigger. I'll try to find some pics, or if I can go to the park when I'm out there next month.



> As for flex track, I'll never forget that three-rail O gauge track, that literally rolled up into a tight coil! It used a sort of chain-like telescopic tubular rail, and looked like it would make quite a racket, if one actually ran trains on it. After that, I don't have much doubt about the possibilities for flex track...


Roy your 1 up on me! I only have seen the 3ft flex sections that are usually bent so bad you have to cut sections out of them! I was thinking about the monorail track, and all I could think of was bendable resin with the conductors painted on with conductive inks.



> Last time I rode a monorail at Disneyland, the Mk IIIs were new.


Those are the only monorails I've been on. I'm not to keen on the new style. I understand the need to update, but sometimes Disney misses the mark. The original ride was part of Tomorrowland and was designed to have a Buck Rogers look to it. To replace that with a modern day fleet was a bad move. The new MkVII returns to the old future style, while keeping the good parts from the current fleet.


Scott


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

swhite228 said:


> ...I...found 2 different articles from train magazines in the 50's with do it your self plans.


I believe I saw parts of one of those articles, as it was being sold on EBeigh. 

Along similar lines, I think I have seen some Erector designs, for monorails.



swhite228 said:


> Disneyland has the old Alweg style beam but the newer parts of the park have an updated version which I've heard is a little bigger. I'll try to find some pics, or if I can go to the park when I'm out there next month.


Just FYI, I have read that the Disneyland monorail will be out of service until sometime in December(due to construction on that Little Nemo thingy).

I'd like to say that, while I appreciate the increased loading capacity of the arched WDW-style beamway, I am aesthetically drawn to the Alweg-style constant cross-section I beam design. 



swhite228 said:


> ...I was thinking about the monorail track, and all I could think of was bendable resin with the conductors painted on with conductive inks.


There is a resin which can hold a bend?! What is it, and where can I get some?



swhite228 said:


> (The Mk IIIs) are the only monorails I've been on. I'm not to keen on the new style. I understand the need to update, but sometimes Disney misses the mark...
> 
> Scott


I think Disney himself would not have wanted Tomorrowland to become a days-of-future-passed relic. However, I've never thought of Lear jet styling as futuristic, or even attractive. 

I read someone describing Mk IV and later designs as "more streamlined". Give me a break, you can come up with other attractive, streamlined designs; I've seen some. But, nothing could be _more_ streamlined, than the Mk Is.


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

swhite228 said:


> ...The new MkVII returns to the old future style, while keeping the good parts from the current fleet.


Just so I'm clear on the point, ARE the new Mk VIIs tall enough, to stand in?

Also, one of the wierd, not-too-cool things about the Mk I-III seating, was that fully half the seats were facing rearward. This makes _some_ semblance of sense, on the WDW double-ended designs. But, the Mk I-IIIs were single-ended, and it lead to unnecessary competition for the forward-facing seats.


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## beeblebrox (Jul 30, 2003)

I've only been on the WDW one and this:


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

Who manufactured this wooden-car, kit-built set?: 










This looks like Will's childhood set:









A tinplate Leland-Detroit from 1938:


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

beeblebrox said:


> I've only been on the WDW one and this...


I remember seeing overhead monorail tracks at the Los Angeles Co. Fair, but no trains.


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

> Who manufactured this wooden-car, kit-built set


The set looks to be home made. The track looks like it came from a Lelund set


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

swhite228 said:


> The set looks to be home made. The track looks like it came from a Lelund set


Good observation, Scott! It looks like the insulators on the wood set track are red, though.


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

Not a great photo, but I haven't seen many of the Mk III. So much glass, who needs to ride in the bubble? I think it would be cool if the lower sides and floor were transparent, too.


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

Great Picture! The top looks like a few of the tourist boats from Europe.

After re-doing my plans I'm getting ready to start v.1 of my build. The general body.
I'll be using the same technique as Brent Gair did for his big Spindrift build. It looks like I'm going to end up doing 2 versions. 
The G scale train to run, and a 2nd with interior parked at the monorail garage.

The drive train for the front boggie is probably going to make an interior a problem. The nicr part is once the drive train and power are figured out then they can be used to do the Disney sub ride, with out water.


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

swhite228 said:


> Great Picture! The top looks like a few of the tourist boats from Europe.


Thanks, Scott. The same similarity crossed my mind.


swhite228 said:


> After re-doing my plans I'm getting ready to start v.1 of my build. The general body.
> I'll be using the same technique as Brent Gair did for his big Spindrift build. It looks like I'm going to end up doing 2 versions.
> The G scale train to run, and a 2nd with interior parked at the monorail garage.


I'm glad you brought this up. I'm sure you'll have great results. 

I'm starting with the track. My first train will be made with my cardstock technique. I'm not committed yet, but it looks like I'll be going S scale. I intend to have all the windows open, and basic interior detail. The glass will be scavenged from one or more mouthwash bottles. 


swhite228 said:


> The drive train for the front boggie is probably going to make an interior a problem. The nicr part is once the drive train and power are figured out then they can be used to do the Disney sub ride, with out water.


My drive will probably be a simple belt type, using a standard O ring. I'm thinking O rings, or faucet washers, for the drive wheels. Also, using Hot Wheels bearings, where possible.


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

swhite228 said:


> ...The nicr part is once the drive train and power are figured out then they can be used to do the Disney sub ride, with out water.


Sounds like you're planning a G scale Tomorrowland.


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

toyroy said:


> Sounds like you're planning a G scale Tomorrowland.


Not exactly....I have the full spoken script for the monorail ride in digital form.

I thought it would be fun to take the patter and match a few highlights to it. The Hotel, the monorail station in Tomorrow land, the subs(20K style),and maybe a couple of more.

The sub ride after the monorail would be easy as it is a monorail also.


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

swhite228 said:


> Not exactly....I have the full spoken script for the monorail ride in digital form.
> 
> I thought it would be fun to take the patter and match a few highlights to it. The Hotel, the monorail station in Tomorrow land, the subs(20K style),and maybe a couple of more...


Don't forget to show me and my cousin, bashing the dog poo out of the Autopia cars!


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

swhite228 said:


> The sub ride...would be easy as it is a monorail also.


Will your subs look like the real ride ones did? 

I think it would be cool to have 20,000 Leagues-style Nautiluses, a Seaview, one of those monster Soviet subs, and maybe a WWI U-boat, just for fun. And, you could have them actually dive, at least to periscope depth, instead of just passing behind a waterfall.


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

The subs would be the 20k style. Don't think there will be any "water" falls maybe a large blue livestock water container with the monorail trach crossing 1 end.

I have floating around on my hard drive the blueprints of the 20K ridr cars, but as we have found out...Disney blueprints are not the most accurate things!


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## Wbnemo1 (Aug 22, 1999)

awe gee Scott,  are those the ride sub blues i provided from fred over at 20kride.com?


Best,
Will


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

swhite228 said:


> Not exactly....I have the full spoken script for the monorail ride in digital form.
> 
> I thought it would be fun to take the patter and match a few highlights to it. The Hotel, the monorail station in Tomorrow land, the subs(20K style),and maybe a couple of more.
> 
> The sub ride after the monorail would be easy as it is a monorail also.


You _did_ say "20K style". I actually remember misinterpreting this, as referring to the particular version of the ride script, based on the file size(!). I was thinking of the fan website that has the recordings of the various train and monorail spiels used over the years.

I have never been to WDW. I had a vague idea, that they had a sub ride similar to the Disneyland ride, and that theirs used Nautilus-style subs. But, I figured that idea might simply have been wishful-thinking, on my part. It is good to know that there was, indeed, such an attraction.


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

swhite228 said:


> ...The drive train for the front boggie is probably going to make an interior a problem.


I can understand wanting one's monorail models to feature actual Alweg-style trucks. I gather that the prototype used truck-mounted traction motors, on at least some of the trucks. Too bad we can't just use scaled-down motors! I don't plan on using Alweg design trucks. There just isn't enough space in S scale, for that, and the interior I want.

It looks like I may be able to fit the motor I want to use longitudinally, between the rear seatbacks in the nose, and the front, rearward-facing seatbacks in the main cabin. I figure much of the space of the cockpit, below the bubble, will need to be sacrificed for the drive. I'm thinking of just having a pilot's head and shoulders mounted on a flat piece, somewhere around, or just below, the level where the bubble mounts to the car roof. 

I have a preliminary drive worked out. It uses nothing more than the worm and wheel gearset which came with the motor. I _may_ be able to mount the drive on a rotating truck; it will, however, have only one road wheel. I'm still considering a fixed-axle road wheel, and sprung-axle guide wheels. I will probably try both designs.



swhite228 said:


> ...The nicr part is once the drive train and power are figured out then they can be used to do the Disney sub ride, with out water.


I did notice the w/o water part. Could you explain what you have in mind?


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

Like I was saying to will the other night, once one has the drive train down then they are open to the other monorail style rides. 
I have the taped speach that was played on the monorails run. What I'd like to do is pick a few highlights from the tape and then try and model them in a basic form. 
My favorite shots of the MkI,II,and MkIIIs are the shots of them above the sub ride.

I think a simple round tank like a horse tank, or cheap kids pool would work for the base of the sub ride. Add the track and 1 or 2 subs built with the monorail drive train and then build a few pylons and run the monorail over it. Or I couldjust get o shallow in ground water pond and stock it with fish.


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

Scott,
I agree that pictures of the monorail over the water are cool!

However, for your subs running in the water, you will probably need a substantially different design, than the monorail.


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

toyroy said:


> Scott,
> I agree that pictures of the monorail over the water are cool!
> 
> However, for your subs running in the water, you will probably need a substantially different design, than the monorail.


Not really. The sub ride was a ground level monorail. The only difference being the subs used diesel motors not electric, and ran in a large puddle.



















If I stay dry then the drive assembly should work for both.


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

swhite228 said:


> Not really. The sub ride was a ground level monorail. The only difference being the subs used diesel motors not electric, and ran in a large puddle.
> If I stay dry then the drive assembly should work for both.


Will your sub track be above the surface of the water?


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

There won't be any water. The bottom of the pool would get the basic details, and the water shade of paint. But no water would be added. Standing water in the desert tends to bring some less than nice wildlife to ones yard like mice which then attract snakes and hawks and owls, and the ocasional illeagal person who is here looking for work!


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

Got it: subs, yes; water, no.


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

I was thinking of a generic Disneyland. Hotel,sub, monorail station, just whatever the cand speach call out. If I can pull this MkI off then it's the MkV, and the Seattle Alwig. So somewhere there needs to be less Disney and sone Seattle.


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

I bit the bullet, and bought a new monorail blue at Downtown Disney today. So far, I haven't broken the seal, just in case I want to get rid of it. 

This is the new version, which comes with eight tiny, bendable Disney figurines. The middle cars now have see-through windows, full interiors, passenger doors which open(albeit, unprototypically), and opening roof hatches(to place the figures in the cars).

Interestingly, the box has the WDW logo on one end, and the Disneyland logo on the other. The skirt of the power car is marked for WDW, though. This was a bit of a surprise, since it was purchased at Disneyland. I have been told that everything about these monorails is going to be made Disney-generic, including the spiel recordings. My guess is that this move will reduce sales, because it will reduce the souvenir, and collector, values.

It was good to see the $15 die-cast static monorail toy, also. The current stripe color is close to plum; I don't know what Disney calls it. I may still get one of them, and try a conversion to a powered model. They are a bit smaller than the operating models. Offhand, it looks to me that the powered models are close to S scale, and the die-cast models are close to HO.


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

swhite228 said:


> ...somewhere there needs to be less Disney and sone Seattle.


A Worlds Fair layout would also be nice!


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

toyroy said:


> A Worlds Fair layout would also be nice!


Worlds Fair Monorails!
Seattle-Alweg or New York- AMT?


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

swhite228 said:


> Worlds Fair Monorails!
> Seattle-Alweg or New York- AMT?


So far, I'm more in the straddle-beam camp, because of the high level of passenger safety possible. The height of the beam, and use of stabilizing side rollers, makes for an extremely low likelihood of derailment. I am not aware of any straddle beam type monorail ever derailing, whereas, in comparison, conventional trains derail frequently.

However, I can imagine that even the least expensive straddle beam, laid on the ground, would be much more expensive than conventional railroad trackage.

I don't know if the same anti-derailment safety is possible with suspended-type monorails. They are inherently more stable, but they also typically allow for a side-to-side swinging motion, which may conceivably cause an impact hazard with the necessary rail supports. 

Also, suspended monorails always require the additional expense of overhead support structure.


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

Will anyone be setting up a monorail around the Xmas tree?


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

Sounds like fun but not here. The Disney monorail I have was given to me by a friend, and only has enough pieces to make a U shape.

In the mean time talking to Will sent me on a quest for info on the MkI. After digging for a while in the patent office's web site I found patent#188,745......Bob Gurr's patent for the MkI trains. Oh, I'm now a member of the Monorail Society. Their yahoo site has some helpfull stuff on it.
Scott


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

swhite228 said:


> Sounds like fun but not here. The Disney monorail I have was given to me by a friend, and only has enough pieces to make a U shape.


Disney does sell extra track. Your point-to-point situation suggests having the train stop and pause at each end of the track, then reversing.


swhite228 said:


> In the mean time talking to Will sent me on a quest for info on the MkI. After digging for a while in the patent office's web site I found patent#188,745......Bob Gurr's patent for the MkI trains.


I'll check it out. Thanks!


swhite228 said:


> Oh, I'm now a member of the Monorail Society. Their yahoo site has some helpfull stuff on it.
> Scott


I've thought about joining; I didn't know about their yahoo group. Again, thanks.


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

I stumbled on their yahoo group. When I tried to join I was declined because you have to join the Monorail Society 1st.

When you check out the patents go to the FAQ page and down load a tiff viewer(free)! If your like me you have Quicktime on your computer which will by default act as your tiff viewer....only problem is you can't print, or save what your looking at. You need to search for "Monorail Train" in the whole library. Just start opening the results and look at their links to other patents. Mach the link to the #188 475 and click on it, you should see Gurr's patent!

Their is a guy on ebay selling patents as well as a few "services" that will sell one to you. But why spend the $$ when you can print it for free.

Scott


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## Wbnemo1 (Aug 22, 1999)

So I'm curious, anything new on the proposed MK 1 monorail system???
Best,
Will


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

*Bob Gurr on "Modern Marvels"*

Just a heads-up: there's an episode of _Modern Marvels_ on the History Channel about Walt Disney World, which features Bob Gurr discussing the design of the monorails.


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## Candyman35 (Dec 26, 2006)

I have been playing with the idea of powering one of the Master Replicas Mark I's. I came across this site through a Google search. Thanks for the great info posted here. Look forward to seeing how your projects progress. 

I am still in the planning stages as to the right material for the beam. I plan to use a variation of the Schuco mechanism for power. I will post pictures of my project as it progresses. 

Wbnemo1,
You and Rich did an outstanding job on the Mark I. Thanks for posting the drawings and info. I wish Bob Gurr had envisioned tinted windows in the 
Mark I since powering it would be greatly simplified. If it wasn't for the Monorail Story I would have never realized it didn't say SFRR in the logo. They did a nice job on that video.

Dan


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

Wbnemo1 said:


> So I'm curious, anything new on the proposed MK 1 monorail system???
> Best,
> Will


 HI Will,
The project is still a go!
I've been sidelined with work and a couple of medical items I needed to deal with.

Scott


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

Candyman35 said:


> I have been playing with the idea of powering one of the Master Replicas Mark I's. I came across this site through a Google search. Thanks for the great info posted here. Look forward to seeing how your projects progress.
> 
> I am still in the planning stages as to the right material for the beam. I plan to use a variation of the Schuco mechanism for power. I will post pictures of my project as it progresses.
> 
> ...


Welcome Dan,

Nice to see we're back to 2 projects. ToyRoy has put his on hold for a while.

Have you joined the Monorail Society yet? They have a yahoo group also with some good pictures of the MkI's.

I'm still working on the power train on my build, like you I wished for tented windows! I will probably end up cheating and block off the whole drivers area for the motor. If I do the cockpit will probably be a photo under the dome.
Scott


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## mrschucomonorai (Feb 3, 2007)

*The Disneyland Schuco Alweg-Monorail Systems: 1961 To 1969*



toyroy said:


> Lately, I've been interested in the Disney monorail sets, both the recent battery-operated ones, and the Schucos. Anyone have any experience with those? Would it be feasible to electrify the newer sets?


Sir,

I am expert in the Schuco Monorail's. With over 4,000 pieces and collecting since 1987. I can answer any and all your questions about this fantastic electric toy train. 
My layout is currently 12 feet long and 8 feet wide with extensions for another 4 feet in length.
The layout currently consists of 434 pieces of 7" track with an overall height of 34 1/2" OFF the table at its' peak. There are over 1,000 pylons (so far) supporting the tracks, and 18 terminal connextions to provide a consistant electrical current in all locations on the layout.
There are currently 9 signals and 4 electric switchers each having 2 signal controls on each one. One Signal (6333/27) is run manually to start/stop the train with a manual switch (6333/28). EVERY single connextion is Schuco, from the 2, 2-prong plugs on every automatic switch control (6333/26/3) to the 6 and 2-way distributor platforms that run under the layout to connect all the wiring mechanisms. (Parts 6333/46 & 6333/42).

All trains (4) five car 1:90th scale trains are all of a different color. Two Blue; one sky blue and one a turquoise blue, one silver and one red. 
There are two complete trains running, on the layout at any one time. The other two are on "off" tracks that one can be park; (6333/21L &R) to allow the system to be fully operational with two trains at all times. (This is how it was originally designed to operate!) the A:B switch on the engine allows the pick-ups to each draw the current from the top rail, and one each from either side rail.

Each train is powered by a Schuco (6333/150) 110volt transformer, which can run the trains separately in forward or reverse directions.
The transformers also operate all the Signals which run on 50 mA each. You cannot exceed 5 Signals on one transformer; 250 mA maximum, or you will melt the Signal stems from overheating. The switchers use 220mA each. I use a 220v only for the one extra Signal with a step down transformer. So only 4 Signals are attached to each transformer at any one time.

I've added to each train an extra length with the bolster attached to the stock 4 car MK II trains from my Schuco "S" sets which each contain 200 pieces each. All manuals/instructions for them are in ENGLISH translation.
There are, so far, 4 layered layouts on the table, each connecting into each other. The automatic switch control (6333/26), provide the means to switch all the switchers from each layered layout, back to the main line. A manual switch control directs the train(s) into each layer on the table. (6333/41)
There are 4 of these used, for each set of two electric switchers.
If you are familiar how these switchers operate, you will know that as each switcher switches their track, the two Signal lights also change at the same time, lighting one red and one green. When switched they are reversed, one green and one red. 

All wheels of the trains have been changed as the originals have dried out and were of no use on the main engines; especially with all the inclines on the layout. I only use the old ones for the end cars. the lights on the trains themselves are rated at 19 volts so they don't blow out. I tried 14 and they didn't last long.

There are even insulator rails that you can place at the beginning of each oncoming switcher. Parts (6333/15 & 16) This prevents the train from running off the unswitched switcher if there is an electrical malfunction. They also are used in conjunction with the manual switch control, part 6333/28 and a Signal, (6333/27). Using two insulator rails in series will stop the train as power would be cut on the center rails. A terminal board (this supplies the power, Part 6333/44) is controlled by the manual switch control. (part 6333/28) to stop or start the train, and return it to the main electrical system.

You have to remember; this toy was produced in 1961, many long years before integrated circuits were invented! Everything is gear driven! The adaptation of Part 6333/26; the automatic switch control, to automatically switch the switchers, is nothing short of amazing!
This is why I love this toy so much! It was decades ahead of its' time!

I have tons of more information on this amazing 1:90 scale electric monorail, which was made in Western Germany starting in the Autumn of 1961 and ran until 1969. It came in five different sets, 1st the "Oval" giftset, the "G" set, 1st Generation, with a 16 page instruction manual; then the round or circle gift set, 2nd Generation, with a 24 page instruction manual; then the American 'H" set, with the ENGLISH 24 page instruction manual (this is the most rare of items to locate); and then the "S" Super set, the largest set produced with 200 pieces plus the instruction manual. There was also an accessory set, Part 6333/99, which only contained extra pieces for the system.( I believe there were 45 pieces in this set)

There was even pieces, although small, that were not even in the manuals at all, like the 8mm pylon, listed as part 6333/61; but this is not pictured anywhere! Then the manual switch controls, part 6333/21L & R, which are in the instruction manual, but not in the english translation brochure.

I have every single piece of this 1:90th electric toy train; right down to the electric motor brushes and the triangular screwdriver to remove the train skirts. I have EVERY SINGLE PIECE, in their original Schuco box/or cellophane wrapper.

You must have questions now, so please ask...

Thanks


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

Any photos of your layout?........Please.
I will have questions soon.


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## mrschucomonorai (Feb 3, 2007)

No, not yet as the layout is NOT complete. I am still experimenting with wiring configurations. These are extrapolations of the wiring diagrams expressed in the Schuco Monorail Instructions.
If you have questions, though, please ask away; I invite your inquiries...


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## mrschucomonorai (Feb 3, 2007)

Waiting for your questions?


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

Still working on them....the real world has taken over again!
Sorry.


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## bobquincy (Feb 25, 2007)

*N Scale Monorail*

I went the other direction, to N scale instead of G scale. The baby monorail is battery powered and uses an infrared control. The Mk I was radio control but there is so little room for an antenna that reception is shaky. The IR works much better in the small distance this model needs.


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

bobquincy said:


> I went the other direction, to N scale instead of G scale. The baby monorail is battery powered and uses an infrared control. The Mk I was radio control but there is so little room for an antenna that reception is shaky. The IR works much better in the small distance this model needs.


Thanks, for this info. Would you please tell us some more of the details of this model? It appears to be a Walt Disney World cab unit.


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

Seems there are more monorail builders out there than I thought.

Maybe we could we all post a list of general questions and share how the problems were solved? 

Scott


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

swhite228 said:


> Seems there are more monorail builders out there than I thought.
> 
> Maybe we could we all post a list of general questions and share how the problems were solved?
> 
> Scott


Hi Scott,

I think one's got to figure that there's _some_ interest, just based on all the Disney sets sold. 

As to your suggestion, are you talking about some sort of FAQ?


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## bobquincy (Feb 25, 2007)

My N scale monorail is based on Disney's spring powered toy (pull it back, let it go, watch it run off the table). The model is loosely N scale, close enough that N accessories look good with it.

I milled out the spring powered parts and built a drivetrain out of a motor from a servo (Mabuchi n-20 size) and some gears made for indoor model aircraft. The rest of the chassis is plastic pieces. You can see the two foam rubber beam wheels, made from sanded down DuBro tail wheels. The side beam rollers are plastic tubing over brass tubing. The radio receiver is GWS 4 channel, batteries are Kokam 145 maH and should give a run time of about 45 minutes.

The beam is made from vinyl siding, planed to 5mm thick and sliced to 1" high on a bandsaw. The vinyl is flexible but will hold a curve shape when bent enough.

This Mk I needs more gear reduction but the gearbox was the most difficult part to machine. The Mk II uses a modified HiTec 55 servo for the motor and geartrain and should run much slower (Mk I will about hit the scale sound barrier, maglev territory). The servo based Mk II should also be much easier to build.
Non-cab units are just shortened cab units. 

Why did I do this when I had a perfectly good HO scale RC monorail?
http://www.mindspring.com/~bobquincy/wdw/monorail/rcmonorail.html

I bought another home and have less room. The HO monorail takes a 24"+ radius curve and I don't have the space. The N scale monorail will run nicely on a 15" radius curve, allowing a decent 36" x 72" layout (including a N scale WDW Railroad).


boB


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

bobquincy said:


> My N scale monorail is based on Disney's spring powered toy...The model is loosely N scale, close enough that N accessories look good with it...


Thanks, Bob, for sharing your very interesting monorail projects!


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

Here's a bigger drawing of Disneyland's new Mark VII monorails:

http://www.burkecompositeengineering.com/images/monorail.jpg

I hear they are to debut sometime this month.


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

That's what a Disney Monorail should look like!


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

It doesn't look like there is an on-board operator. Will they be automated, or run remotely?


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

swhite228 said:


> That's what a Disney Monorail should look like!


I agree. I hear some fans are disappointed that there is no top bubble, though.


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

April has come and gone, and still no Mark VIIs at Disneyland, as far as I know. However, when they do appear, I'm guessing they'll stop selling the current blue-stripe battery monorail sets, at least in So. California. Disney is pretty persnickety about keeping their ride souvenirs up-to-date. For instance, they discontinued the Schuco models, when the real Mark III trains were introduced.

It will be interesting to see if Disneyland will introduce Mark VII toys when the real trains debut. Conceivably, WDW might continue to issue the newer version of the Mark V-VI toys(those with the interiors and rider figures) with different stripe colors. Having both styles would be just fine with me! (I'll take the DCA Golden Gate bridge too, thanks!)


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

Rumor has it they pushed everything back for the return of the sub ride which seems to be a big hit at the moment.


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## Wbnemo1 (Aug 22, 1999)

Howdy,
I finally checked back on this thread as you know me and the monorail ...So Bob this is very interesting to me about your little N scale mono. I just picked up something pretty cool,I think anyway. There are some zz scale( 1:300, 4.8 mm between rails) battery operated Shinkansen train sets made by Bandai. I picked 2 sets up and my mind is reeling from the thoughts and imagining a zz or z scale monorail layout. I purchased both the E3 series Komachi and the 800 series Tsubame. My thoughts on these are very simplified. You see, the train tracks for these little train sets are cast in one piece , rails, ties, and baseboard all in one and you just snap the pieces together with its' little ingenious locking system. the locomotive is a mere 3.100" long by .440 wide and .575 tall the whole on the Komachi train is 9.250" long once assembled.. my thought is to make three different style bodies for this, firstly, a wonderful little MK1 Disneyland Mono like we mastered for Master replicas and Disney. Second, a Mark 6 monorail like the one currently running at WDW, and lastly, this may hurt a little and show my age, but I always liked the train from the very short lived Tv show Supertrain, a Supertrain replica body. I already have completed the CAD drawings for each, so it's just a matter of creating the master pattern for each, then molding and resin casting the bodies. Also, I think laser cutting all the beamway with a groove for the wheel rims will work well and make a simpified mono beam. Here's are a couple links to see the little zz scale trains. l even found a Youtube video to show them in action. This could prove to be alot of fun.
Will
http://www.asovision.com/zz-train/index.html Please note: this link does work, just click cancel to not install the japanese translation software. You will see pics of all the little guys offered, just can't read anything .
http://youtube.com/watch?v=8VZvIyBqLak this is the Youtube video that shows them in action, you will also see how small these little guys are.

Ps. Thanks for the compliment Dan.


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## Wbnemo1 (Aug 22, 1999)

Howdy,
The z scale monorail project is nearing half way point, with one modification, it's gonna be a MK4 monorail first. I finaly figured out the radius of the beamway for this little guy and the absolute smallest I can get it is a 36" diameter circle. This is actually pretty good considering the MK4 is a longer body in relation to overall contours. Anyway I'll post pics as soon as I can. I decided to make the beamway have a raised outer surface and recessed inner surface about .020 deep...it will still look like a mono, but will allow the locomotive to actually work lol...
Anyway, all for now..
Will


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## psychopanner (Jan 6, 2008)

*New Schuco Monorail Blog*

Hello,
My name is Alan Gauldin and I am a Schuco Monorail operator. As I have been searching for information about the monorails I have found that information is hard to find. There is a couple of good sites and a few people now and then selling on E-bay. That's about it. I have started a Message board for us operators and those thinking about collecting. 
I am inviting you to come and see my board. You are welcome to post any issue you would like regarding Schuco monorails. You can tell us about you experiences, your tips, you can ask questions, you can even post parts or sets you might have for sale. I hope to provide all of us a place to come together to share and promote our hobby. 
THE ADDRESS FOR MY SCHUCO MESSAGE BOARD IS: http://www.voy.com/214885/


I also have a blog that I share my progress on my layout and other monorail information. I have pictures of my layout and will show how I made some of my scenes. I will add your pictures if you send them to me. I have links to my favorite monorail sites and I can add your link if you request it. 


THE ADDRESS FOR MY SCHUCO MONORAIL BLOG IS: http://schucomonorail.blogspot.com/

I hope to hear from you soon. Alan
:woohoo:


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

The new Mk7 monorails have been delivered to Disneyland and should be in operation by March of this year. There is as I understand no plan for these to also go to WDW.

The G scale project is still on going. I'm looking for a way to power the monorail while still leaving the interior open.

Alan, I took a look at both of your sites and have to say the Matterhorn with working sleds was great.
I have to say that I was watching Close Encounters when I saw the 1st picture and the image in my mind of Roy Neary building the mountain then adding motorized sleds was priceless!


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## psychopanner (Jan 6, 2008)

*Thanks for stopping by*

I'm glad you checked out my sites. Come by often as I plan to add new info as I get it. I have a new vender in Germany that left his web address. He seems to have pretty good prices. Please leave a message next time to share your thoughts on my board. Thanks Alan :wave: :wave:


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## Wbnemo1 (Aug 22, 1999)

progress continues had this 3 d printed for the project.
Will


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

It's looking very good Will!


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

That 3-D printing stuff is real impressive!


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## Wbnemo1 (Aug 22, 1999)

looks much better in person though, gonna cut the masks for the windows...by the way a n scale narrow gauge MK1 is in the works
Will


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

Narrow-gauge monorails. Hmm.


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## Wbnemo1 (Aug 22, 1999)

yup N scale Narrow guage...this MK4 is this scale as well, the original MK4 mesh was 3d modelled by jason the monorail man, then I met with Bob Gurr and we finalized the shape, then sent the mesh to my friend who had it printed for me.
can't wait to get it molded, casted, painted up, and running... 
Will


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

Will you be using your Japanese battery-operated ZZ stuff? The WDW models would look great over the old 20,000 Leagues ride!


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## Wbnemo1 (Aug 22, 1999)

I may actually be able to use real z scale running gear, there is a new scale being introduced at the end of this month or early februrary it's called T scale
1:450..could consider using that too. one of these will definitly work.
Will


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

Couple of things about Z scale: they tend not to run as smoothly as larger scales, due to the low weight of electrical contact between the wheel and rail. You may be able to overcome this, using a more sophisticated control system.

Also, the motors are wound with super-fine wire, and burn out VERY quickly. Since they're not cheap, I'd recommend taking extraordinary measures to protect them.


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## Wbnemo1 (Aug 22, 1999)

maybe I should persue something more along the lines of what Bob did...most amazing
Will


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

The Z scale _mechanisms_ are good, and since the railroad part is unseen, you could add a number of rail wipers, or even some pickup rollers sprung to run on the rail sides. You'd probably also want to replace the Z scale motor with a more robust and forgiving(and probably cheaper) motor.


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## xr4sam (Dec 9, 1999)

Just thought I would post one other monorail, after seeing the other fari references. This is a shot from the Louisiana World Exposition from 1984: http://wyes.org/images/WorldsFair/WF 0020 - Souvenir Slide - FestPark rev 1.jpg


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

I've taken the next step on the G scale monorail by ordering a MR from ebay to study.

Scott


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

I don't know a better reference source you could use. Plus, I'm sure they'd make magnificent O scale working models.


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

I've wanted one from day 1, and after talking to Will on the phone about the monorail it became a grail piece.

I've watched the prices on Ebay climb with every new MR posting so when I saw a red at $199 with a buy it now it was time.


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

Good deal! They were *$300* when first issued.

I'm really looking forward to the new Mark VIIs...:woohoo:


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## Wbnemo1 (Aug 22, 1999)

cool I think you will be quite pleased with it...she's very accurate, only found a couple things not quite right, deviation from pattern vrs production. Overall though, you are good to go.........
Will


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

A G scale monorail should be very popular with the garden railway crowd.


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

toyroy said:


> A G scale monorail should be very popular with the garden railway crowd.


I know. Here in Tucson they have a garden railroad crawl once every 3 months. I've ask and nothing like this has to anyones knowledge been done.

I hope this will turn out as nice as I hope as I've already started laying out the ponds, and figured out a way to get the sub ride to work!

Between this and the battlestar studio scale build it looks like a busy 2008!


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

I got the MR monorail yesterday and all I could do was sit and look at it.
After 40+ minutes of drooling I tried putting the batteries in it. After that another 15 minutes of playing in a dark room just to see the lights.

Today as I looked I noticed that it's missing the Alweg name and logos.

Anyone know why they were left off.

I also noticed how much the shape mirrored the Astroliner train cars it replaced.

Will you guys did a fantastic job on the monorail and it was nice to see you both got credit in the booklet that came with it.


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## Wbnemo1 (Aug 22, 1999)

Awesome, you got it.....Thnk you for the compliments, loved making it...now as for the logos, it was a legal issue and due to time constraints it was never really pursued... the actual Alweg logo wasnt added to the train till the MK2....take a look at the Santa Fe logo ... recognize the initials...it's an accurate model..Bob Gurr, Rich and I went back and forth emailing till Bob said it was correct.....
Cheers,
Will


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

Yeah, I heard Santa Fe had some exclusive deal with Disney, such that only their two names would appear on any train in the park. Adding Alweg's name supposedly strained relations between Disney and ATSF, at least until Alweg went out of business in 1969. 

But many Disney attractions in the early years initially had corporate sponsorship, which eventually elapsed. Then the sponsor's name would be removed from the ride.


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

Recently released Disney Mark VII pins: 










Looks like the first trains will be red, blue, and orange- and five cars long.


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## Wbnemo1 (Aug 22, 1999)

yet i heard none of em will make it past the first curved beamway of the roundhouse...nice!!!
Will


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

If so, sounds like some serious delays are possible.


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

Check this out: 

http://blog.makezine.com/nyctoyfair2008/

scroll almost halfway down(LARGE page), to "Amazing linear propulsion systems - no toy application (yet!)" 

There is a video which shows the speed and climbing power possible. I'm thinking of this mainly in connection with Will's small-scale monorails. The propulsion is similar to a mag-lev. BTW, I love the decorative lighted supports!


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

http://www.mth-railking.com/detail.asp?item=10-1233-0


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

Re: the MTH Detroit monorail set: lots of interesting things about that set!


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

toyroy said:


> Re: the MTH Detroit monorail set: lots of interesting things about that set!



Thanks for the assist Roy! It was late and I thought I'd killed off the post but it seems to have gone through.

The set on the link is a reproduction of a set from the 40's. The origionals have been going for a couple of hundred dollars on ebay when they come up.


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

Are you thinking of a G scale version?


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

toyroy said:


> Are you thinking of a G scale version?


No. Just the MkI.


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

One nice thing about the Disneyland/WDW beamway is that there are several different monorail versions that can run on it.


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

Wow, a Tokyo Disneyland battery set just sold for $255:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=220209011974&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=012

I wonder if they sell cars and track separately, or you just have to buy additional sets?


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

A set of WDW monorail blueprints on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/RARE-LARGE-WALT...goryZ144QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Eighteen prints, 11 of the trains themselves. They don't specify whether they are of Mark IV or Mark VI trains.


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## Wbnemo1 (Aug 22, 1999)

well in a roundabout way they do...look at the side elevation...that's the mk6, check the doors/windows...
Will


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

An early, steam operated, straddle-beam monorail(sort of):

http://www.catskillarchive.com/rrextra/odmeig.Html


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

An interesting Mark VII kitbash:

http://micechat.com/forums/showthread.php/pictures_mark_vii_monorail_model-95187.html


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

Well, I finally applied to the Monorail Society. I'll be interested to see if they have anything of value to model monorailers.


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

toyroy said:


> Well, I finally applied to the Monorail Society. I'll be interested to see if they have anything of value to model monorailers.


It requires some digging but there is some good stuff at their Yahoo group site.


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

The new MarkVII monorail red. These photos are enhanced versions of those in the L.A. Times:









^My favorite Mk7 pic so far.









^The new cab.









^New car interiors with LED lighting.









^For Scott and Will: Mk7 over Nemo subs.


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## Wbnemo1 (Aug 22, 1999)

Howdy,
those are great pics of the mk7 thank you for sharing..
Cheers,
Will


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

Very Nice!!!!!

I hope to see the Mk7s later this year.
Scott


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

Got my first Schuco today. Just a three car train, no track. I expect it will be a big help and inspiration for designing my own models.


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

How did Model Railroading get stuck in this "Odds & Ends" hell? It's a modeling hobby; it should be there.


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## Wbnemo1 (Aug 22, 1999)

kinda wondered that too
Will


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

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I like the seat light logo!
Need to make one of those for a night light.


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

A custom N scale monorail on eb...b...bay: Item # 170259504416


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## scotpens (Sep 6, 2003)

*Holy Jules Verne!*



toyroy said:


> An early, steam operated, straddle-beam monorail(sort of):
> 
> http://www.catskillarchive.com/rrextra/odmeig.Html


That Meigs Elevated Railway is WAY COOL! Was it the first true monorail? 

It certainly shows some very advanced engineering for 1886. From skimming the article, I gather that a working full-size test track was built, but the concept was never put into commercial service. It predates the famous Wuppertal monorail by 15 years.


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

scotpens said:


> That Meigs Elevated Railway is WAY COOL! Was it the first true monorail?...


Sorry to say, but that's all I have about Meigs monorail. I did run across something about a suspended type built in St. Paul in the mid-1880's; check recent posts at the yahoo! Monorail Society for that.


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## Wbnemo1 (Aug 22, 1999)

*1825 - Cheshunt Railway* 
The first passenger carrying monorail celebrated a grand opening June 25th, 1825. It had a one-horse power engine...literally. Based on a 1821 patent by Henry Robinson Palmer, the Cheshunt Railway was actually built to carry bricks, but made monorail history by carrying passengers at its opening.
grabbed from monorail society to answer question of first monorail, to carry passengers at least
Will


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

Here's a Meigs photo: 

http://tinyurl.com/3swrs3


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

Another Meigs:

http://tinyurl.com/3g4ce8


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

Monorails....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. How about cog railways in Z scale?


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

Y3a said:


> Monorails....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...


You mean, you don't have Rokenboks on your N&W freight operations?



Y3a said:


> ...How about cog railways in Z scale?


I bet someone's into it. And, that it's probably pretty expensive.


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## bobquincy (Feb 25, 2007)

*RC Monorails*

I haven't been on here lately, been busy with school but that is done now!  The N scale monorail project is still moving along, with a new motor (6mm diameter planetary gearhead) that makes it much easier to build. I took a break from this to work on an update to the original RC monorail, using some of the technology from the N scale.

This makes the HO version much easier to convert and the sound board/speaker/etc are all still in there! I plan to put one on eBay next week to see if a $350 toy will really sell. For now there are some photos and stuff of both the HO and N scale on the current web site:
monorail.suzieandbob.com

The new web site, monorailmodeler.com has been ordered and should be up by Friday!


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

bobquincy said:


> I haven't been on here lately, been busy with school but that is done now!  The N scale monorail project is still moving along, with a new motor (6mm diameter planetary gearhead) that makes it much easier to build. I took a break from this to work on an update to the original RC monorail, using some of the technology from the N scale.
> 
> This makes the HO version much easier to convert and the sound board/speaker/etc are all still in there! I plan to put one on eBay next week to see if a $350 toy will really sell. For now there are some photos and stuff of both the HO and N scale on the current web site:
> monorail.suzieandbob.com
> ...


The work on the G scale is moving ahead slowly. 
I just got done reading the Disney plan for the New York Worlds Fair monorail and will be using the pillar and beam layout drawings and measurements to construct the beamway.

The monorail it self is in the bogie development phase. I'm trying to get a set of bogies that I can swap bodys with. The idea is that with the removable bogies then I will be able to go from the MK.I to a MK.Ia, to the MK.III and up just by changing the bodies and a floor strip/connector.

The MK.Ia is what I'm calling the New York monorail as it is a stretched MK.1 with 4-4 window cars, and 4 window front and back, small dome on top and the red tail lights.


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

I might be doing this as a static model as well as the garden railroad set. It's the blueprint for the 1st Disney monorail done in 1954, but never built.


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

swhite228 said:


> ...I just got done reading the Disney plan for the New York Worlds Fair monorail and will be using the pillar and beam layout drawings and measurments to construct the beamway...The MK.Ia is what I'm calling the New York monorail as it is a streched MK.1 with 4-4 window cars, and 4 window front and back, small dome on top and the red tail lights.


Hi Scott,
Were these plans on exhibit at the fair?


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

bobquincy said:


> ...The N scale monorail project is still moving along...


Hi Bob,
Congrats, and glad to see you advancing model monorail technology again. :thumbsup:


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## Wbnemo1 (Aug 22, 1999)

Huh?
These are pre Disneyland Mk .1?s I noticed the points or decimals. If they are indeed the actual Disneyland Monos, there's no need for decimals, they were the MK 1, MK 2, and MK 3. I'm a bit confused by the decimals as your description is for the 3 DL monorails.
Will


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## Wbnemo1 (Aug 22, 1999)

just read back through the mono thread. I think the decimals are "your revisions" of prootyping the monos, not the Disney titles they were given. Is this right?
Will


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

> Hi Scott,
> Were these plans on exhibit at the fair?


The plans cane in a report from Andrews & Clark an engineering firm that worked with Disney and Alweg to put together the report for the fair. I believe the pdf I got of the report was from the Monorail Society.

The report was Disney's proposal to build a monorail consisting of 13,400ft of track (12,400 ft for the main beamway, and 1,000 ft of spur track) to circle the fairgrounds. The total ride time was to be 7min 28sec long.

The monorail itself was to be a 4 compartment car, 6 car train that would have seated 204 people. The ride was to have been run from 1964 to 1973( if Flushing park was developed as a recreational center) and was projected to carry 20,128,000 passengers.

The basics on the 3 monorail trains to be built were:
Length - 187ft.
Width - 6ft 6.5in
Height - 7ft 8in
Weight - 122.500 lb.gross loaded
Bogie spacing - 26ft 5in with a max. gross weight of 17,500 lbs

Cost to build- $1,660,073.00

Beamway:
Minimum radius of curvature- 350ft
Height above grade - 30ft average, 35ft at station. with varying heights to deal with utilities that couldn't be moved. Max. height at fair entrance 38ft.

All beams made of precast concrete with maximum span length of 60ft. All spans over 40ft would use prestressed concrete.

Pillars were to be built on 4 80ft driven piles. 

Beamway cost - $3,200,313.00

Total cost with station and other items- $6,122,214.00


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

Wbnemo1 said:


> just read back through the mono thread. I think the decimals are "your revisions" of prootyping the monos, not the Disney titles they were given. Is this right?
> Will


You are correct Will.

I have the habit of labeling them as such:
The Mark 1 in my twisted shorthand is the MK.I
The Mark 2 is the MK.II and so on.

The only problem I had was where to place the first design and the NYfair design, both were never built but are part of Disney's monorail history.

After looking at the worlds fair layout and the date I decided to keep track of it by calling it the MK.Ia as it was a stretched Mark 1 that maintained the Disney Mark 1 look and seating layout.

I still don't have any snappy id for the hanging bubble monorail they were working on in 54.


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

Here is the MR monorail done as it would have looked in N.Y.


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## scotpens (Sep 6, 2003)

swhite228 said:


> . . . I still don't have any snappy id for the hanging bubble monorail they were working on in 54.


How about the "Streamlined Sardine Can"? With a car width of just 4-1/2 feet, that thing would have been pretty cramped. And the Moderne design was already outdated by that time. It wouldn't have looked out of place at the New York World's Fair -- the one in 1939, that is.


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

And, I see it maxed-out at a scorching 20 mph. But, you'd be able to watch the ride line waiters pass you by from above.


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

The width of the monorail did seem to be a problem but you can see the nice folks at Disney did solve the problem.

If you look real close at the drawing you see that the young boy has no right leg which allows them to keep the rounded interior.


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

An operating World's Fair layout would be cool, whether you use the Disney monorails, or just the AMFs.


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

toyroy said:


> An operating World's Fair layout would be cool, whether you use the Disney monorails, or just the AMFs.


It would be easy as it's just a loop. The downside to an ho scale or larger layout is the turn radius. The Disney ho set has a turn radius of 4ft, so following along then the O scale turn would be around 8ft, and G scale would come in somewhere around 16ft.

The length of the NYWF Disney train in G scale comes in at 93.5 inches so it's a bit big for me.

The Alweg design track lends itself to more real world monorails, like the Seattle line for example.

The AMF monorail does open up a few possible combination's on it's own which would be fun!
You could use the track for the Disney 54 monorail, any of the Gerry Anderson monorails from the Thunderbirds tv shows, and possibly the Saftig(sp) from Fahrenheit 451.


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## scotpens (Sep 6, 2003)

swhite228 said:


> . . . You could use the track for the Disney 54 monorail, any of the Gerry Anderson monorails from the Thunderbirds tv shows, and possibly the Saftig(sp) from Fahrenheit 451.


The Safege monorail used in _Fahrenheit 451_ was a short 1400-meter test track in Chateauneuf-sur-Loire in central France. The retractable stairway seen in the movie was intended as an emergency exit only.











The design was never put into commercial service in France, though a licensed version was built by AMF for the 1964 World's Fair.











Unfortunately, the original French monorail car was in this rather sad condition as of October 2000. I don't know what's become of it since then.


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

The AMF cars ended up in Texas and seem to have been destroyed in the last couple of years.

It's a shame no museum has tried to preserve any of the old monorails.


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

swhite228 said:


> ...It's a shame no museum has tried to preserve any of the old monorails.


Well, there's Don Kirk from the Monorail Society. He's got a museum in Oregon, including a functioning track. And the Children's Museum in Philadelphia has Wannamaker's Christmas monorail.


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## sbaxter (Jan 8, 2002)

An accident last night at 2 am on the Epcot line of the Walt Disney World monorail killed the pilot of Monorail Pink. Apparently it slammed into the back of Monorail Purple. Austin Wenneberg, 21, was the monorail pilot killed -- according to reports, he had to be cut out of the cockpit. The incident apparently happened just outside the station at the Transportation and Ticket Center. There were a handful of guests on one of the trains; they were shaken but uninjured. The pilot of Purple was taken to the hospital but was apparently also uninjured.

I'm at a loss how this could have happened; it seems several things would have had to go wrong at once. There are several safety backups in place to prevent just such an incident. The system certainly isn't dependent solely on the pilot for safe operation. There are sensors designed to shut a train down if they get too close to another train -- and they define "too close" pretty conservatively. 

Just my own speculation, but perhaps the air brakes on Pink failed.

The WDW monorail system is offline today, though the parks remain open. Actually, details are a little confusing -- it might be that only the Epcot line is shut down. 

This is the first fatality on the Walt Disney World monorail system's 38 years of operation.

Story here: http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...y-world-monorail-crash-070509,0,2802055.story

Qapla'

SSB


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

sbaxter said:


> I'm at a loss how this could have happened; it seems several things would have had to go wrong at once. There are several safety backups in place to prevent just such an incident. The system certainly isn't dependent solely on the pilot for safe operation. There are sensors designed to shut a train down if they get too close to another train -- and they define "too close" pretty conservatively.
> 
> Just my own speculation, but perhaps the air brakes on Pink failed.
> 
> ...


Sensors on the monorail should have indicated if there was a problem with the breaks early on, and MAPO should have locked the breaks on when the train entered the danger area. 

If I'm not mistaken the MAPO system should apply the airbrakes if a monorail is closer than 2 blocks(train blocks not street blocks) away. 

Part of the system monitors 3 different signals transmitted along the beamway. As a monorail comes up to another train at 3 blocks the signals drop from 3 to 2 setting off a warning for the pilot to slow down and stop at a set location- over shooting the hold point is a written reprimand, on the 3rd writeup during your employment you are removed as a pilot for the remaining length of employment at Disney.

From that point I'm not sure what happens except that if the MAPO system has to automatically sets the breaks your gone!

It is possible to override the system, and it's done when they store monorails overnight in the Contemporary Resort.
One monorail pulls in to the building and stops, then the other monorail is slowly pulled in and parked. There is a supervisor there with a manual switch to kill power to the beamway if needed.

The MAPO system is tested 2 times a day once at start up, and again around noon. The test is done by trying to get a train to enter the same block as another train. If everything is working the airbreaks will deploy each time the system is reset after the test starts. 

This is the 2nd crash on the WDW monorail beamway. The 1st was when a monorail ran into a tug during filming of a commercial.


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## sbaxter (Jan 8, 2002)

swhite228 said:


> Sensors on the monorail should have indicated if there was a problem with the breaks early on, and MAPO should have locked the breaks on when the train entered the danger area.


Much of my first post was based on very little information; much more is now known. Here's what actually happened:

Monorail Pink was about to be taken out of service for the night, and so it needed to be switched from the Epcot line to the Express line, so it could later switch to the spur track that goes to the maintenance barn. The switch between Express and Epcot line is just outside the Transportation and Ticket Center. At the same time, Monorail Purple was also on the Epcot line and was stopped at the TTC to load a small number of passengers going back to the Epcot parking lot. 

Here were the makings of disaster. Normally, two monorails would not be so close to each other on the same beam, because MAPO would disable them. But because Pink was about to be switched, its pilot had to override MAPO. Under these conditions, maximum speed of a monorail is 15 mph. The pilot of Pink received word that he was clear to back up and the switch was ready -- he should have been backing up onto the Express beam. For whatever reason, the switch had not actually been moved, so he was still on the Epcot line. The beam curves in that area, so it would likely have been hard to see Purple behind him using his sideview mirrors.

The pilot of Purple was a 21-year-old Kissimmee resident and college program cast member named Austin Wuennenberg. For reasons as yet unknown, he didn't reverse Purple to avoid the collision. Maybe he never saw it. According to reports, the control station at the TTC was unmanned at the time. Apparently, none of the Monorail cast members on the TTC platform saw the situation in time either. Pink backed into Purple, and Wuennenberg was dead at the scene, likely killed instantly. According to reports, he had to be cut from the cockpit. All the guests on Purple were shaken but unhurt. The pilot of Pink was taken to the hospital but was uninjured physically -- he was emotionally distraught.

OSHA, Disney -- and, oddly enough, NTSB (which decided they had jurisdiction and apparently invited themselves) are investigating long-term, and Disney has already revamped procedures and installed additional sensors in this and similar areas to avoid this situation being repeated. The WDW monorail system returned to service after about 24 hours.


swhite228 said:


> This is the 2nd crash on the WDW monorail beamway. The 1st was when a monorail ran into a tug during filming of a commercial.


There was also a collision between two monorails in 1974, but no one was seriously hurt back then. And a car on Monorail Silver caught fire back in the '80s and had to be evacuated by Reedy Creek Fire and Rescue.

Qapla'

SSB


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

I heard about the 74 crash after my post. They took the front of the train that was hit and added the rear car from the train that hit it. Repainted the stripe to match the new train and it was running the next day. 
The fire I found out about a while ago...









Wow!


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## sbaxter (Jan 8, 2002)

swhite228 said:


> I heard about the 74 crash after my post. They took the front of the train that was hit and added the rear car from the train that hit it. Repainted the stripe to match the new train and it was running the next day.


I wouldn't be surprised if they did the same with Pink and Purple now, at least after the investigations are completed. From what I understand, when Epcot opened in 1982, Disney only added two new trains (Lime and Coral). I'm sure they'll want to have as many trains as possible available and ready to run if needed.

Some Disney fans (a minority, for sure) are calling for Disney to retire the colors involved in this collision, but it seems to me they want that more so they aren't reminded of this accident than in any real memorial to this cast member. My take is that those fans knowledgeable enough to be aware of the color-coding system for monorails and what colors exist would be just as likely to be reminded of the accident when they saw any new colors on the line as they would seeing Pink and Purple. Plus, how far can they take the color system and still keep the colors easily distinguishable? The only colors that leap to mind that they haven't used that _might_ work would be a charcoal gray (might be confused with silver at night) and maybe copper (might be mistaken for gold). They're pushing it already with Lime and Coral, if you ask me.

I'm also puzzled as to the involvement of the NTSB. They've never before investigated an incident involving a private transportation system. Unless Disney invited them, what are they doing? Did they just decide to take powers they aren't supposed to have? Sure, I want the incident investigated so the cause can be identified and eliminated, but I'm not sure the NTSB is necessary to make that happen. Disney already has a vested interest in not having this happen again.

Qapla'

SSB


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

sbaxter said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if they did the same with Pink and Purple now, at least after the investigations are completed. From what I understand, when Epcot opened in 1982, Disney only added two new trains (Lime and Coral). I'm sure they'll want to have as many trains as possible available and ready to run if needed.
> 
> Some Disney fans (a minority, for sure) are calling for Disney to retire the colors involved in this collision, but it seems to me they want that more so they aren't reminded of this accident than in any real memorial to this cast member. My take is that those fans knowledgeable enough to be aware of the color-coding system for monorails and what colors exist would be just as likely to be reminded of the accident when they saw any new colors on the line as they would seeing Pink and Purple. Plus, how far can they take the color system and still keep the colors easily distinguishable? The only colors that leap to mind that they haven't used that _might_ work would be a charcoal gray (might be confused with silver at night) and maybe copper (might be mistaken for gold). They're pushing it already with Lime and Coral, if you ask me.
> 
> ...


Disney could have ask the NTSB for assistance as a way to head off any future problems as they start to move the Disneyland system from just Disney property to a small public transportation system in Aneheim. 


Your correct about the color system! They already have problems with lime, and green, as well as pink and coral getting mixed up. I don't think just the delta in the stripe is working as a fix for the problem.


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## sbaxter (Jan 8, 2002)

swhite228 said:


> Disney could have ask the NTSB for assistance as a way to head off any future problems as they start to move the Disneyland system from just Disney property to a small public transportation system in Aneheim.


Are they doing that? I hadn't heard anything about it, though admittedly, I've never been to Disneyland (it's high on my to-do list!). Disney might well have invited the NTSB -- I'm sure they want to show people they're serious about making sure this never happens again. 


swhite228 said:


> Your correct about the color system! They already have problems with lime, and green, as well as pink and coral getting mixed up. I don't think just the delta in the stripe is working as a fix for the problem.


Yeah -- the way they're used on the monorails, the differences between lime and green as well as pink and coral are pretty obvious once you actually compare them -- but someone seeing just lime who isn't really familiar with the colors would probably describe it as green. After all, it _is_ green -- just different from the _other_ green.

I think I have noticed in the past that you usually won't find lime and green nor pink and coral running the same line at the same time.

Qapla'

SSB


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

sbaxter said:


> Are they doing that? I hadn't heard anything about it, though admittedly, I've never been to Disneyland (it's high on my to-do list!). Disney might well have invited the NTSB -- I'm sure they want to show people they're serious about making sure this never happens again.


Last I heard was the local service between other parks and attractions had been given the green light by Anahiem city and the county. 



sbaxter said:


> Yeah -- the way they're used on the monorails, the differences between lime and green as well as pink and coral are pretty obvious once you actually compare them -- but someone seeing just lime who isn't really familiar with the colors would probably describe it as green. After all, it _is_ green -- just different from the _other_ green.
> 
> I think I have noticed in the past that you usually won't find lime and green nor pink and coral running the same line at the same time.
> 
> ...


From reading the WDW blogs it seems to happen a lot. It isn't a problem for the park guest as they see it as another ride, and if the 2 are together the stripe is different enough. The deltas are to help park employees identify the trains at a glance.


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

*Highway in the Sky training book*

Disney Monorail training book

It's been mentioned a couple of times in this thread.


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## Wbnemo1 (Aug 22, 1999)

Howdy,
so hows the mk1/mk2 mono project going.. I learned a few things as I'm endeavoring to make a z scale 1959 monorail layout. the mk1 never saw the hotel, so would have to model the mk2 or later. Also the Mk1 in 59 only circled tomorrowland/ Matterhorn, no expansion til 61 so the beamway is a little different. On a great note, the entire z scale layout for this will fit on a 4 foot by 5 foot board..pretty cool!
Will


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

Thanks for the update, Will. I'm not working on any monorail projects right now.


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## RobertIngria (Sep 23, 2009)

*Disney Monorail Toy*

I am attempting to replicate a N scale version of this like Bob Quincy.
I just purchased the small monorail diecast toy from the Disney site. There was no information regarding the size and the spring drive that Bob mentioned in his post. If anyone can tell me that I made the right purchase please post a reply. Thanks to all.

Robert Ingria


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## RobertIngria (Sep 23, 2009)

*Disney NY Monorail*

What do you suggest if I wanted to build a similar monorail for a project today? The beamway would be appoximately 5000 ft and have 2 cars and 1 free standing station. The other stations are built into the various buildings in the development. (4)


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

Wbnemo1 said:


> Howdy,
> so hows the mk1/mk2 mono project going.. I learned a few things as I'm endeavoring to make a z scale 1959 monorail layout. the mk1 never saw the hotel, so would have to model the mk2 or later. Also the Mk1 in 59 only circled tomorrowland/ Matterhorn, no expansion til 61 so the beamway is a little different. On a great note, the entire z scale layout for this will fit on a 4 foot by 5 foot board..pretty cool!
> Will


Mines going slow but progress is being made!


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

RobertIngria said:


> What do you suggest if I wanted to build a similar monorail for a project today? The beamway would be appoximately 5000 ft and have 2 cars and 1 free standing station. The other stations are built into the various buildings in the development. (4)


5000 ft???? and N scale???

And folks think the "G"scale project I'm working on is too much.


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## ntraining (Jul 2, 2005)

Hello, everyone - I am also very interested in modeling an N scale version of one of the later versions of Disney's monorail. I would like to ask if anyone building one of these has made any more progress, or if anyone has any updated advice on where to find drivetrain components and correctly sized models to kitbash one.

Thanks,
John


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## silverplanet (Oct 24, 2009)

I am also interested in "G Scale" modeling of Mark 1 monorail. I am currently in the data collection stage. I still remember riding the Mark 1 in the summer of 1959 and what a thrill it was. G scale seems to come in many flavors, from 1:20, 1:29, to 1:32. swhite228 which numbers are you using? I'm thinking of 1:24 just to make the conversions easier. Also, I'm considering scaling up the Mark 1 to match the dimensions of the Mark IV. I'll appreciate any feedback as well as help with data sources.


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## Wbnemo1 (Aug 22, 1999)

Hi there, If you are talking about scaling up the MK1 that Rich and I made for Disney, it's already scaled to 1:48. I went through many hours and drawings with Bob Gurr on this in an effort to "Get it right". At 24th scale, your train will be:
Overall length 43.858" long breaking down as follows


cab/ passenger car 16.376" long,4.378" tall, and 3.433 wide same for Front and Rear
.79" between cars(bellows)
center passenger car, 9.528" long
straight Beamway section will be 17.896" long .834" wide,1.438" tall and a groove through each side of the beamway that's .604" wide and .84" deep


Obviously, this will help anyone else making a Mk1, Happy Hollidays

Will


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## bobquincy (Feb 25, 2007)

*N Scale Monorail - Mark IV*

The latest design is a reality now, the Mark IV, so named because it is my 4th chassis/drivetrain design, even though it is only the 2nd one actually built.
The new design is a one piece ABS chassis, much easier to make than the Mark I. The motor is a tiny (6mm) gearhead unit with internal 25:1 reduction, making the external geartrain very simple.
The radio is a Plantraco 900 MHz, tiny with a very short antenna.

Performance is great, with almost scale speeds and good proportional control (FWD & REV).

boB

http://monorail.suzieandbob.com/n_0543.jpg

http://monorail.suzieandbob.com/n.html


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

Thanks boB, 

Always good to hear what's new in model monorails!


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## craftsmaster (Jun 4, 2010)

I love the one in Japan. The design of the trains are an interesting departure from previous Disney monorails, in that they are built to Japanese standards. That means they are much bigger than any previous Disney Monorail. Since they are part of the Disney resort on Tokyo Bay, they are of a considerably sleeker design than most other large-scale Japanese monorails.
__________________
Each individual has compelling reasons to love model railroading. But beneath these varied reasons are common threads that make it an awesome hobby everyone.

The Australian Model Train Guide


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

It's the Mickey windows that don't work for me, the monorail itself is ok.


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

silverplanet said:


> I am also interested in "G Scale" modeling of Mark 1 monorail. I am currently in the data collection stage. I still remember riding the Mark 1 in the summer of 1959 and what a thrill it was. G scale seems to come in many flavors, from 1:20, 1:29, to 1:32. swhite228 which numbers are you using? I'm thinking of 1:24 just to make the conversions easier. Also, I'm considering scaling up the Mark 1 to match the dimensions of the Mark IV. I'll appreciate any feedback as well as help with data sources.


Wow take a week off and you miss something for almost a year! Sorry!!!

It's 1/24 scale because it is just easier to scale the die cast MkI up than to try and decide what G scale really is!

For data I've used the blogs on Disney for photos and reference material.
Here are 2 links to the ones I like best:

http://gorillasdontblog.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2010-07-07T00%3A01%3A00-07%3A00&max-results=10

and

http://davelandblog.blogspot.com/


I joined The Monorail Society here:
http://www.monorails.org/

I googled the heck out of the words "monorail", "Disney Monorail" and " Disney MkI monorail".

And I had a chance to talk to Wbnemo1 (Will) about the process he and Rich used in making the Master Replica MKI diecast. He suggested I buy the diecast which I did (he told me 1 week before the prices on ebay jumped to $600 so I got it cheap! Thanks for the push!!!!) and he suggested the DVD "The Disney Monorail Story" from Extinct Attractions which I think is now out of the dvd market thanks to a Disney C&D.

There may be more but that's all I can think of at the moment.


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## Wbnemo1 (Aug 22, 1999)

tell me about it...lol still wanting to do a Z scale mk1...it will happen
Will


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

Wbnemo1 said:


> tell me about it...lol still wanting to do a Z scale mk1...it will happen
> Will


Looking foward to it and your Super Train!


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## Wbnemo1 (Aug 22, 1999)

Supertrain drawings are done and having a 3d model made of it as we speak...
 hey pm me your number again, lost it in a dive accident, apparently cells don't like water:wave:

Will


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## sanud002 (Sep 20, 2010)

*Stoked Rokenbok just went to IR.*

I'm a big Rokenbok fan and I have a large track set up with multiple new IR monorails running simultaneously. Best thing about this new system is that multiple trains can be controlled with a single controller all at once. I love seeing my system all working in harmony.


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

sanud002 said:


> I'm a big Rokenbok fan and I have a large track set up with multiple new IR monorails running simultaneously. Best thing about this new system is that multiple trains can be controlled with a single controller all at once. I love seeing my system all working in harmony.


I would love to see pictures of the layout you have.

I've been looking at Rokenbok parts as I'm working on my g scale MKI I think the track switches and the "X" cross piece will end up as the base for the same parts wnen I start building track


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

Wbnemo1 said:


> tell me about it...lol still wanting to do a Z scale mk1...it will happen
> Will


Will make it N scale and you might be able to use parts from the new Fujimi Tokyo monorail kits (1/150 scale):thumbsup:










































Track packs and extra car kits are available for the modeler to build their layout....and alweg styl track!


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## my54f100 (Jan 31, 2013)

I own both the 1970 Remco Speedrail Monorail as well as the E-R Models HO Scale Monorail. My Remco needs restored and has been in storage since the late 70s. My E-R was purchased in 2000 and has only been set up twice due to limited space issues but the last time it was running was last weekend. It ran great and my oldest son really enjoyed playing with it. We took it out because my nephew recently received the Disney Monorail from Santa. I've been reading all of your ideas on building your models of the Disney Monorail and was wondering if anyone has designed a rail switch (turnout)? I've been considering expanding the E-R Monorail so my son can have even more fun with it but I would like to have a rail switch so he could run it along a siding like the real Disney Monorail does. The siding would go to a repair facility in my layout. Any thoughts?

Thanks


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

Disney uses a slide setup to move track.









Their switch for the toy monorail pivots at one end.









The old Disney monorail used the same idea but the beam was flexable.









You probably could build your switch like these, just rember to round the corners of a straight beam piece then fix one end on a pivit and moving the other end between the main beam way and the repair way beam.

Just be sure to power the section of track so the pickups will get power.


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## bobquincy (Feb 25, 2007)

*Fujimi Monorail - Powered*

Speaking of the Fujimi monorail... I built a chassis and powered it. The architecture is the same as my Disney N scale monorail but narrowed a bit. The Fujimi beam is detailed with molded in "power rails" so the beam rollers had to be redesigned. I now use ball bearings on all my monorails, they run much smoother. I also use Deltang radios, much smaller than anything else I have found.

boB
















I posted a short video of the Fujimi monorail on youtube, look for n scale monorail (there aren't many).


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

bobquincy said:


> Speaking of the Fujimi monorail... I built a chassis and powered it. The architecture is the same as my Disney N scale monorail but narrowed a bit. The Fujimi beam is detailed with molded in "power rails" so the beam rollers had to be redesigned. I now use ball bearings on all my monorails, they run much smoother. I also use Deltang radios, much smaller than anything else I have found.
> 
> boB
> 
> ...


Your monorails blow me away!

I got the small Disney diecast, looked over your other post, took it apart and discovered my pudgy little fingers are bigger that the openings. Put the thing back together and remembered there was a reason for going with G scale.


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## bobquincy (Feb 25, 2007)

The N scale monorail needed lights. The front lights are independently controlled by the radio receiver, the rear lights are programmed with a microcontroller.

http://monorail.suzieandbob.com/front_lights.mp4

http://monorail.suzieandbob.com/rear_lights_2.mp4

If the inside of the plastic shell is not painted black (like mine is not, yet) the red LED makes the cab glow, cool but not realistic.


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

bobquincy said:


> The N scale monorail needed lights. The front lights are independently controlled by the radio receiver, the rear lights are programmed with a microcontroller.
> 
> http://monorail.suzieandbob.com/front_lights.mp4
> 
> ...


Nice!


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## bobquincy (Feb 25, 2007)

Still hoping to hear from WBNemo1 about the monorail shell he had 3D printed, that would be a perfect match for my powered chassis. The cost of 3D printing has really come down and the shells could probably be made for about $15 each. I thought about modeling one in CAD but it is a lot of work and WBNemo1 has already done it.

I can probably make a powered chassis to fit Z scale too!


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