# Pro-10 Vs. T/C



## Crptracer (Feb 19, 2007)

Will pro-10 drive down the cost of T/C or will it destroy it? Can the pro-10 class revitalize 1/10th onroad by creating a less intensive setup and lower costs and will it bring more 1/12th scale racers into 1/10th or is it possible that this will create just another class ? I would hate to see t/c die off,I am not saying it would every where but it will in alot of areas. Will T/C manufacturers lower the prices of there kits? With lipo batteries and brushless motors is this not allready lowering the costs of racing by stopping battery wars and the need for a dyno and comm lathe in your pit box. I dont think the pro ranks will even skip a beat with the creation of this new class but for the weekend R/C racer it is going to cause a problem on one hand you have all your t/c stuff and then you show up to your track and you might find your fellow racers divided. just my 2 cents


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## CypressMidWest (Apr 30, 2002)

This is another age old argument. RC is cyclic. TC will not die, but it may drop significantly in popularity, much as 10th pan car did. TC will survive, maybe just not thrive. I for one can't wait to run some 10th pan car w/ a Lipo and brushless set-up but..... 

And just like any new technology, we hear that Lipo and Brushless will save the hobby. We're already seeing that Brushless has only lessened the work load for the average clubracer. At this point each time a new speedo is released it's a SIGNIFICANT improvement over the previous generation. So rather than buying the latest stock motor for $30 and 10 or so sets of brushes at $3, I now need to purchase the hot $200 speedo. I may not have to cut the motor, but I'm hardly saving any money. 

Lipos will eventually go the route of NIMH's with performance improvements, etc. Already, we are past the Orion monopoly, as the SMC cells are superior in performance. If you over charge a LIPO it offers greater performance, but deteriorates at a rate FAR FASTER than a NIMH does. You'll always have those who seek that advantage and if you wish to keep up, you'll have to join them.

I have no problem with Brushless or LIPO or 10th pancar in the hobby, I just understand that none of them are the GREAT SAVIORS that many would lead us to believe.


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## BudBartos (Jan 1, 1970)

It will just be another class that is WAY too fast for average people to do or enjoy. There is already TOO many classes in RC as far as I'm concerned, but then what would I know Hope it works out


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## Crptracer (Feb 19, 2007)

I think clubs are just going to have to put the brakes on to survive.....By brakes I mean spec racing to a certain degree.


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## Miller Time (Sep 24, 2006)

The pan car if approached with a resonable attitude could help a lot of tracks. I aggree with Bud it is way to fast... if allowed or encouraged to go that way with 6 cells and hot motors, but then again so is full blown Mod in any car. With 4 cells and up to a 19turn or 10.5 preferably a 13.5, it is very drivable, even more so than your average T/C and a whole lot less involved to understand and set-up. That alone should interest tracks who have seen the newbie spend their money on T/C only to try it and then quit.

Sure you will still have the division between those that can and those that can't, but that rift will be smaller and the consiquence of not being able to drive quite as well or set-it up to a 't' will be a lot less than buying stock in a-arms and c-hubs. 

We've already seen this in Trans Am that even though the fast guys still win it is closer and parts last a lot longer and everyone is happier.


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## Crptracer (Feb 19, 2007)

I will probably try the pro-10 class but it is a neverending cycle ..this class will soon have the same problems as T/C ,Unless the manufacturers get together and try and help it grow and control costs. But in the end I think its really up to club racers to help the hobby grow by limiting the motor and batts I have raced in classes where they limit the dollar limit spent on your ESC,....


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## Miller Time (Sep 24, 2006)

Crptracer said:


> I will probably try the pro-10 class but it is a neverending cycle ..this class will soon have the same problems as T/C ,Unless the manufacturers get together and try and help it grow and control costs. But in the end I think its really up to club racers to help the hobby grow by limiting the motor and batts I have raced in classes where they limit the dollar limit spent on your ESC,....


you've seen me drive:freak: all I need is an on off switch :hat:

Seriously the tracks are only part of the problem, in general they do what the experienced racers gravitate towards, as long as the mentality that faster is better is put in check I think the racing in general will be closer and more enjoyable by both racer and spectator, thus growing the hobby.


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## convikt (Nov 2, 2005)

Crptracer said:


> I think clubs are just going to have to put the brakes on to survive.....By brakes I mean spec racing to a certain degree.


good in therory, but a track will not turn some one away because they dont have the "right" equipment.

the VTA class was supposed to do this in a sense (spec), but at Summit, I dont think anyone is actually going by the rules (ok maybe a couple), there is so many variations, that it might as well be an "open" class


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## sportpak (Dec 23, 2005)

convikt said:


> good in therory, but a track will not turn some one away because they dont have the "right" equipment.
> 
> the VTA class was supposed to do this in a sense (spec), but at Summit, I dont think anyone is actually going by the rules (ok maybe a couple), there is so many variations, that it might as well be an "open" class


We kept the rules pretty open in VTA because of the TC enviroment we ended up with this year. We basically wanted to salvage whoever was left. If interest is still there next season, we'll have set rules made well before the season starts. We were hoping a "gentlemen's" agreement would carry us through, and I think it did, but we definately plan on having things more structurd next season.

If Pro10 is going to work, it has to be flexable enough to keep new guys into it, yet serious enough the regular racers have fun with it. The regular racers must be on the same page and working together. We've all learned that personal opinions can get in the way of "the greater good". 

Let's work together....

Ben


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## Crptracer (Feb 19, 2007)

I think we all have good points.......My opinion on VTA is that"serious racers"
tend to have more fun in these classes due to it being more of a secondary thing thats done for fun and there isnt that focus.....The biggest question I guess is whats "exspensive" really? Can you really control the R/C monster within and tame it? I cant I am an R/Caholic and screw those meetings there for quitters any how...Exspensive is relative to the person looking at the price tag. How else do you keep cost down without setting standards and limits, without rules,regulations and specs to follow to keep the average Joe coming back? I am not saying turn guys away but you cant have your cake and eat it to....I can tell you from the local track down here that not setting rules is ruining the turnouts...Let me ask you all this do you think Pro-10 will force t/c manufacturers to lower costs? I would hate to see t/c really fall off and I get passed more than the transponder loop...But thats how it goes...Is t/c foam or rubber stock really that different from VTA????


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## Miller Time (Sep 24, 2006)

T/C won't get any cheaper, why should it? to compete with a pan car that street cost is only 50-100 less!
There will always be a following that prefer the intense pit time spent on T/C, similar to us die hard brushed/NiMh guys 
As there is also historically guys who loved the simplicity of 1/12 but did not care for the 'little' cars or there darty nature. The Straight Axle, Pan Car, Pro10, GT10 by any name is a larger more gentler handling 1/12 that should appeal to a wide audience, with out detracting detrimentalty from T/C. 
Nearly every serious 1/12 driver honestly believes every newbie should start with 1/12 and learn to drive first. This is a concept that makes the return of the Pro10 interesting.


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## convikt (Nov 2, 2005)

sportpak said:


> We kept the rules pretty open in VTA because of the TC enviroment we ended up with this year. We basically wanted to salvage whoever was left. If interest is still there next season, we'll have set rules made well before the season starts. We were hoping a "gentlemen's" agreement would carry us through, and I think it did, but we definately plan on having things more structurd next season.
> 
> If Pro10 is going to work, it has to be flexable enough to keep new guys into it, yet serious enough the regular racers have fun with it. The regular racers must be on the same page and working together. We've all learned that personal opinions can get in the way of "the greater good".
> 
> ...




last week, I saw Mike frantically looking for a bigger pinion, and I called him on it. Hes already got 13.5 w/ lipo in the VTA. Why? Becauase he wasnt the fastest down the strait . WTF???. I know this needs to be discussed else where, but, before we go outside, we need this "stuctured". The dude that started this has a set of rules. Plain and simple, they need followed, if not sign me up for stk tc. Or there is allways offroad :drunk::drunk::drunk::drunk:

Anyway, till I see *BIG* intrest in these pro 10's, I will not get one. Its bad enough I go through TC's like changing underware.


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## Miller Time (Sep 24, 2006)

I agree we NEED to use the VTA rules as close as possible, if someone doesn't have a 4 cell or 17.5 or stock motor, they will just have to get it or run another class. the original idea was to have a loose set of rules to initiate the class and allow people try it out, thats done as much as we can. Time to make it simpler and even.


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## sportpak (Dec 23, 2005)

We're working on the VTA rules. If you want to run lipo, I think we're pointed towards the 21.5. That's what I'll encourage people to run. I hope by next year NOvak packages the 21.5 with a speedo. I run a Mabuchi/Lipo setup, and I surely aint fast, I don't think that combo is out of the question either. 17.5/stock should be 4 cell only. 13.5 won't be allowed next year at Summit in VTA.

The VTA guy himself, on his own thread, said that the 21.5/lipo will most likely be the future of VTA. Expect a ruling change next year possibly. 

I agree with Garth, before I do anything with Pro10, it needs to happening productively and making sense. If it does happen, I'll still wait 2 months to see what all the bitching is about. You know the lipo vs nimh/brushed vs BL/expert vs hacker whine-fest is going to be a doosy. Running stock foam TC all by myself hasn't been bad, I get to do whatever I want.:hat:

Ben


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## Fred B (Sep 26, 2001)

BudBartos said:


> It will just be another class that is WAY too fast for average people to do or enjoy. There is already TOO many classes in RC as far as I'm concerned, but then what would I know Hope it works out


Preach it Bud...

Just to compare, I went offroad racing last weekend. Guess what? Tons of guys at the track and a bunch of kids learning how to drive. Stock in dirt is slow and there's less bite so the cars don't break much. Plus a good kit's $225 or so.

The onroad crowd doesn't have an entry level class to get people in. No new people, and the whole thing dies.


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## Fred B (Sep 26, 2001)

Why exactly is a pro10 car $300 when a 2wd buggy is $220-$230?

What's so expensive on a pro10 compared to 4 shocks, a transmission, bellcrank steering and included tires/wheels. I know what carbon plate costs and it's not that much...


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## rjvk (Aug 27, 2003)

For the Trans AM thing to work, you HAVE to follow the rules. :freak:

I think that 21.5/Lipo will probably be the 3rd option for a motor/battery rule.
This way, the guy who wants to run with just the stuff he has, like a 27t and Nimh, can break down 2 6-cell packs and be ready to go. Or he can go b/l 4-cell, or b/l and lipo. Run whatcha got.

The biggest thing with the cars is that everybody can drive them pretty close to their limit of speed. This bunches up the competition, and makes for good races.

It's like sedans from about 1999, most people could wheel one with a stock motor.:dude:


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