# Phase II Enterprise



## Richard Compton (Nov 21, 2000)

According to Brick Price's webpage, you can RENT the Phase II Enterprise.

Someone should call and see how much that would cost.

If someone rented it, it could be photo documented and measured. ....for uh posterity.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

If IDIC and others are correct in identifying the model, it has been altered substantially from its original configuration to make it more closely resemble the movie version.

What would be great is if Price would devolve it to the point where it resembled what was, at the time, determined to be its appearance on Phase II. Perhaps he could even lend a hand in determining if there'd have been a deflector dish like the STOS version or not. :thumbsup:


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## Richard Compton (Nov 21, 2000)

Yeah, it's been changed a lot, but it would still be a great thing to examine and measure it. It's major components are probably essentially the same, and even certain small details might be original.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Richard Compton said:


> Yeah, it's been changed a lot, but it would still be a great thing to examine and measure it. It's major components are probably essentially the same, and even certain small details might be original.


Very true! No argument here.

I'd like to see it restored, preferably by Price, to a Phase II configuration. I think that would make the model a lot more valuable to those who may be interested in the history of the ship.

What is his website URL?


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## Chuck_P.R. (Jun 8, 2003)

Anybody with any good picture/history links on the Phase II model/series, I'd love to see those too, in addition to Brick Price's url.


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## Richard Compton (Nov 21, 2000)

http://www.wonderworksweb.com/

The rentals page doesn't mention it but when you go to the spot where they show the model, there's a code by it. Someone should call and see if it is in fact possible to rent it and for how long/much?


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Richard Compton said:


> http://www.wonderworksweb.com/
> 
> The rentals page doesn't mention it but when you go to the spot where they show the model, there's a code by it. Someone should call and see if it is in fact possible to rent it and for how long/much?


Yeah! I agree!

I nominate YOU! :jest:


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## Richard Compton (Nov 21, 2000)

Nah, I'm shy.


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

The model doesn't look so good close-up.

The original molds still exist, though. So, maybe...


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## capt Locknar (Dec 29, 2002)

I'll give them a call on monday or tuesday. 

ME NOT SHY lol


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## Richard Compton (Nov 21, 2000)

Capt. Locknar, did you ever give them a ring?


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## capt Locknar (Dec 29, 2002)

Oh damn things so hectic here I plumb forgot.

Will get to them sometime this week


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## NJFNick (May 22, 2004)

Does anyone know where i can find some good, clear pitures of the Abel TMP version or the full on Phase 2 version, either on the net or in print?

If Polar Lights do the TOS Enterprise in 1:350 as well as the refit, i see some serious kitbashing on this subject!


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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

The original conept for the Phase II Enterprise was that the saucer wouild be largely untouched from the original series (just a change in the bridge and a few other minor touches), with the bulk of the changes taking place with the secondary hull and the warp nacelles.

Stick a TOS saucer on a TMP secondary hull, and you get the general idea.


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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

Try this on fer size..


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

I have photographed the model extensively from just about every angle. As I stated before, she's not much to see close up. The detailing is quite poor and very cheesy looking in person. It would have been much better had the model been finished in the original Phase II configuration, rather than extensively modified in a lame attempt to duplicate the look of the Magicam model.

Since the original fibreglass molds still exist, it would make more sense for someone to make another casting and finish the duplicate as originally designed by Matt Jefferies for Phase II, as the original casting SHOULD have been.


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## mactrek (Mar 30, 2004)

I agree. I'd love to see a complete Phase II Enterprise. I also wouldn't mind having a model of it myself ... I've thought of converting one of my existing models, but I'm still unclear on a lot of things (like the contour of the Photon Tubes, the main deflector, colors, lighting and hull markings). 

It would make for a very interesting conversation piece ... The ship that never was.


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## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

Dissenting view here.  

I suppose I'm one of the few who is rather glad we got the _TMP_ refit version of the design even though it doesn't reflect the TOS _E's_ lines more. I just find the Phase II version looks awkward overall particularly in the engine support pylons and warp nacelles.


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## TheYoshinator! (Apr 2, 2004)

I'm kind of suspicious of the originality of that Brick Price model. I have some screen caps from a show( I can't remember which) that shows *the* or *a* Phase II being modified to look like the TMP version.

There is a David Kimble cutaway poster on the wall which make sense as to when it was done.

What makes me suspicious is:

The model had been *greatly* disassembled. There is just an incomplete secondary hull, dorsal, and nacelle pylons and oddly there were none of the three deflector thingies that go around the deflector dish... just empty 'slots' where the Phase II's should have already been glued.

To me it would suggest that either he, for whatever reason, took it *completely* apart or another was built from the molds he still possessed at the time.

Here are the caps. I would have posted these last night but I had to hunt for them. I'll let you guys decide.

Inconsistent ??? Pic 01 
Inconsistent ??? Pic 02 
Inconsistent ??? Pic 03 
Inconsistent ??? Pic 04 
Inconsistent ??? Pic 05 
Inconsistent ??? Pic 06

Enjoy!

-James


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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

To quote Bill the Cat, *ACK!*


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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

mactrek said:


> I agree. I'd love to see a complete Phase II Enterprise. I also wouldn't mind having a model of it myself ... I've thought of converting one of my existing models, but I'm still unclear on a lot of things (like the contour of the Photon Tubes, the main deflector, colors, lighting and hull markings).
> 
> It would make for a very interesting conversation piece ... The ship that never was.


For a quick and dirty conversion, you take the saucer section from a TOS Cutaway Enterprise and put it on the secondary hull of an E-A. This will require some rather extensive reshaping of the top of the dorsal, as the curvature of the underside of the TOS saucer is quite a bit different from the refit. Also, the turboshafts on the bridge will have to be reworked (best bet will be to just remove the one that's there and discard it, since the process of removing the bit will pretty much destroy it). A couple of pieces of leftover sprue of the same diameter, placed at about five and seven o'clock (twelve o'clock being directly foreward).

The only major things to do with the secondary hull, if you don't want to get into the whole mess of creating entirely new nacelles to match the initial drawings, is to cut out the triangular grills at the top of the support pylons, and sand off all the surface details and fill in the windows (the Phase II ship is a smoothskinned beauty, like the TOS version; besides, the windows are arranged differently).

Paint it up like the TOS Enterprise, with the registry numbers that would normally go on the nacelles down on the lower sides of the secondary hull.

It does make for a rather striking model.

Now, if you wanna go more authentic on the details, you're on your own.


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## NJFNick (May 22, 2004)

That's a great schematic, i have been trawling the net for a while now, looking for good images and i will post any i think are helpfull to you other guys. :thumbsup: 

Is any one currently working on a Phase II project?


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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

She's currently on one of my shelves, after having won 3rd Place at the Starcon Denver model contest (surprising for an admittedly rough model; I only did it as a proof-of-concept piece).

I'll see if I can scare up a decent pic or two.


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## Captain_April (Oct 20, 2002)

I know that I have not posted very much but its strange that the board would allow a second person to register with the same name? Ok mine doesn't have a space in it but come on its the same name.


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## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

Phase II anyone???


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## BrandonAllan (Feb 16, 2003)

Captain_April said:


> I know that I have not posted very much but its strange that the board would allow a second person to register with the same name? Ok mine doesn't have a space in it but come on its the same name.


wow that IS a predicament. But the real question is which of you is the *EVIL* one.


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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

Captain_April said:


> I know that I have not posted very much but its strange that the board would allow a second person to register with the same name? Ok mine doesn't have a space in it but come on its the same name.


Looks like an underline between the two names, whereas I have a space.

In any case, it's only because it wouldn't let me squeeze in the "Robert".

Oh well...


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## MGagen (Dec 18, 2001)

Wow! Kinda like a freak transporter accident. And one of you has an underline -- kind of like a scar -- across your name. The only problem is, it's the _second_ one to appear; not the first one that has the "scar."

Can someone send a shuttle down to collect poor Lt. Sulu?

:jest:


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## NJFNick (May 22, 2004)

There's a thread on this subject going on over at Trek BBS, seems this is a poular subject. 
I cant believe that no one seems to have finished a post TOS / pre TMP Enterprise even though kitbashing between the TOS 22" cutaway and movie 22" kits would throw up something close.
Thomas says that there will be various versions of the 1:350 refit, wonder if the "no floodlights" planetary sensor / TOS style bridge or other Abel period details will be offered?


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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

NJFNick said:


> I cant believe that no one seems to have finished a post TOS / pre TMP Enterprise even though kitbashing between the TOS 22" cutaway and movie 22" kits would throw up something close.


Exsqueeze me?


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## Captain_April (Oct 20, 2002)

Those are some nice pictures, I recall there being an electronic Enterprise toy based on this version that was released just before "The Motion Picture", I remember it because my brother was going to buy it for me but after seeing out of the box I didn't want it because it didn't match the one in the film. I still kick myself everytime I think of it.


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## uss_columbia (Jul 15, 2003)

There was indeed an Enterprise toy based on the less detailed miniature. I have one. It was made by West End or somesuch. It also has the amusing feature that the nacelles and secondary hull can be moved around for ship variations. The old-fashioned sound effects are kind of entertaining, too.


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## Captain_April (Oct 20, 2002)

Prehaps you can take some pictures of it and post them here for comparison.


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## Griffworks (Jun 24, 2002)

uss_griffin said:


> There was indeed an Enterprise toy based on the less detailed miniature. I have one. It was made by West End or somesuch. It also has the amusing feature that the nacelles and secondary hull can be moved around for ship variations. The old-fashioned sound effects are kind of entertaining, too.


I've got the toy and will dig up the pics I took some time back and reload them to one of my usernames workspace. I actually have 1 1/2 of them, missing only a secondary hull to complete a second ship. I took both to WonderFest last month and we had a blast playing around w/all the possible configurations. We even came up with one or two that JohnP hasn't done yet. 

- - - - - - 

Jeffrey Griffin
Griffworks Shipyards

* * * * * *

Star Trek Scale Modeling WebRing


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## TheYoshinator! (Apr 2, 2004)

It's Southbend.

And yes... those are cool. I've never owned one though.


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## ssgt-cheese (May 31, 2000)

*Excuse me everyone.*

This is not mine, I just happened to have the url for reference.

http://www.calormen.com/Star_Trek/SouthBend/

Mike


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## NJFNick (May 22, 2004)

I missed a Southbend on Ebay about a month ago, it went for about $20 - peanuts! i could have kicked myself. 

Those photos are great, i am starting mine tomorow and watching another cut away 22" on ebay at the moment to add to the various movie bits in the parts bin. :thumbsup: 

Does oven cleaner really get old paint jobs off styrene kits?


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## Barry Yoner (Mar 6, 1999)

Those Phase II engines really look funky, though. Given what I see of them, you'd either have to completely scratchbuild them or massively modify Refit engines. The rear halves look close to Refit standards, but the front halves need to be seriously chopped. Were these engines really considered?!?! Amazing!!

The secondary hull looks to me to much closer to the TOS style than Refit but it does have certain elements from the Refit on and around the deflector. I'd probably keep the saucer the least changed except for having 2 turboshafts off the bridge. Is the B/C deck a bit wider from the original filming miniature's section? Oh yeah, the new torpedo tube on the dorsal base would need to be added.

Anything else I've missed?


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## uss_columbia (Jul 15, 2003)

Some time ago, I was planning to build a bridge-the-gap refit model somewhat similar to the Phase II design.

I have the cutaway saucer and secondary hull, the refit nacelles and a few other parts (bridge, impulse "vents", main pylon (for torpedo section), lower dome from Reliant, main deflector, etc.), and JTGraphics decals for USS Constitution (refit style markings).

My plan was to basically just put the propulsion system of the refit onto the original hulls. (I'd need to scratch-build or adapt refit pylons to fit the old engineering hull.) I also planned to modify the "secondary hull strongback" with a ridge as seen in some of MJ's Phase II drawings.

The idea was that Constitution was the first refit, getting new propulsion system (only). Enterprise was a later refit (probably the second), getting more extensive upgrades to the main hulls.

Anyway, I've lost interest in this particular build (having moved away from 1/535 scale). Would anyone like to pick up my pieces and finish the project or adapt it into a Phase II model? I'm willing to offer all of the parts I have free (just pay shipping), if you just pay me for the JTGraphics Constitution decals (refit era), which were $6. If you don't want the decals, you can still have the parts for next to nothing (though I'll give preference to someone that will take the decals). I'll post pics of what I have later (probably Monday). (I'll post them to the buying/selling forum, where it's more appropriate.) Naturally, we'd like to see pics of the resulting model here (eventually).


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## Barry Yoner (Mar 6, 1999)

Ooooooooooooo!!

I'd do it! Unless someone else has already claimed them. Let me know....!


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## uss_columbia (Jul 15, 2003)

Here's a pic of the parts. 

Barry: Do you want the Connie decals? You're up in Canada, aren't you? I'll have to check what shipping costs. Send me email to paul1 at vpinc dot biz with your addy.

Note: both nacelles are missing the front grills. (I have a posting on swap and sell requesting if anyone has extras. If they do, I'll pass the info on.) (Of course, if you're doing a Phase II, the nacelle grills probably differ anyway.)


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## Barry Yoner (Mar 6, 1999)

Sending you email.....


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## NJFNick (May 22, 2004)

Don't you just hate it when you miss a bargain!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

*Picture of Enterprise at studio*

I found this picture of the Enterprise in a set of the old Roddenberry cards he put out when they had started the phase2/movie


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

Ok, lets try this again( it's my first photo post)

If it doesn't work it's in the photo s3ection at hobbytalk in my album


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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

Would this be it?


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

Thats the one.
Thanks for the help!
Scott


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## NJFNick (May 22, 2004)

Great stuff guys. Shots of this ol girl are rarer than rocking horse sh**.
If anyone else has any then lets see 'em. She's gonna fly again in 1:350, just need close ups of those torpedo launchers and the deflector. I'v got a good shot from the middle of the "TMP Annual" from 78. I'll try and post it.


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## TheYoshinator! (Apr 2, 2004)

Great Pic!

Thanks!

It's very hard to find any pics on that version of the ship. Any and all are appreciated!


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## ssgt-cheese (May 31, 2000)

*I found these pictures!*

The ST Guardian site has these pictures of the PhaseII model. They kinda of dark to tell any important details though.

http://www.stguardian.to/fed/constitutionrefit/pretmprare.jpg

http://www.stguardian.to/fed/constitutionrefit/pretmprare01.jpg

http://www.stguardian.to/fed/constitutionrefit/constrefitandrewprobert.jpg


I can't believe they use this diagram in STII.

Can you tell? 

http://www.stguardian.to/fed/constitutionrefit/constrefschemtwokphase2.jpg


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## uss_columbia (Jul 15, 2003)

Cool! I'd never noticed that the "shields" display from STII was the Phase II Enterprise!


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## heiki (Aug 8, 1999)

Did the phase 2 shuttle inspire the NESE Protector in Galaxy Quest?


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

ssgt-cheese said:


> The ST Guardian site has these pictures of the PhaseII model. They kinda of dark to tell any important details though.
> 
> http://www.stguardian.to/fed/constitutionrefit/pretmprare.jpg
> 
> ...


Good catch on the diagram. That's the phase II all right. 

However, the three pics above, I wouldn't label as being phase II. The model was eventually modified to become the familiar ST:TMP refit version and was not the Phase II as originally envisioned for the projected Phase II series. The Phase II model was never seen on screen.

I'd call that model the early motion picture version. :thumbsup:


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

Those photos ARE of the Motion Picture Enterprise as first built by Magicam, before the modifications made later by EEG.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

^^ That's what I was trying to say. Sorry I wasn't clear.

I wouldn't call that, the TMP model, the 'Phase II' model since there are very significant differences.

The early motion picture version, in the pics above, are what I'd call 'the early motion picture version'. :freak:


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## ssgt-cheese (May 31, 2000)

*Made a mistake.*

Sorry guys and gals  So many versions and remakings that I got confused as to which one is which.

So the PhaseII model is the one with the TOS primary hull. And the 1st STTMP model was without detail at the bottom of the primary hull and boxy a/b deck.  

Mike


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

ssgt-cheese said:


> So the PhaseII model is the one with the TOS primary hull. And the 1st STTMP model was without detail at the bottom of the primary hull and boxy a/b deck.


Yeah, pretty much. There were several different versions of the TMP model as it slowly changed in details to the final version that, with slight alterations, appeared in the movies.

The Phase II model was never completed as such but was abandoned in favour of a newer bigger model that started off reflecting some significant changes from the Phase II.


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

The large Phase II model is 60" long. Unfortunately, it was never finished as the Phase II ship, instead BPMM (later known as Wonderworks) redetailed it to more closely resemble the even larger, 100" movie miniature, complete with simulated self-illumination ports. I have seen and photographed this model up close, and it is rather disappointing in person, as the details and finish are not of very high quality.

The real tragedy is that the Phase II model was not finished as she was originally designed, and this has led to it being referred to as the "lost" _Enterprise_. The original fiberglass molds still exist, however. So, it may be possible in the future that someone may make another casting and attempt to complete a finished version of the Phase II ship as designed. Now THAT would be something to see!!!


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

I wish the fellow who owns the Phase II model would take it and refinish it to resemble the initial plans for the version to have been shown on TV.  

What a waste having it look like some half-baked imitation of the movie version!


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

Seems that the next Profiles in History auction has a set of blueprints for the Enterprise that was made during the phase2/ tmp time.

The picture of one of the pages shows the phase2 enterprise!


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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

Got a link?


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## swhite228 (Dec 31, 2003)

http://cgi.liveauctions.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2256297041&category=52929

cut and paste link into browser or go to Ebay, click on live auctions
find Movie Mem auction and click should be at the bottom of the 9th page...just after Shatners contract for the 2nd season.

They are also selling one of the KITT cars, and the attack sub from Voyage To The Bottom Of The Sea.


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## Trek Ace (Jul 8, 2001)

Those plans of the Motion Picture _Enterprise_ were drafted by Richard Taylor.


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## capt Locknar (Dec 29, 2002)

I think I'll bid on the Kitt Car, Its only estimated at 40-60 grand


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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

I dunno....I've got a soft spot for that Magnum P.I. Ferarri.

Just throw in the Hawaiian shirt and the Da Nang ballcap, and I'd be all set.


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## uss_columbia (Jul 15, 2003)

Trek Ace said:


> Those photos ARE of the Motion Picture Enterprise as first built by Magicam, before the modifications made later by EEG.


It's interesting that the Aztec panel detail was painted before the updated bridge and such were added. (Before the "self illumination" I guess.) There's a lovely shot of the ship in The Art of Star Trek that shows the purple light from the nacelle inboard grills flooding across the aztec pattern and with the "smooth" bridge detail still present. I'm guessing this was a lighting test shot. It's gorgeous. (Also of note, the impulse engine lights were blue at this time rather than the orange we saw in the Motion Picture.)


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## Bay7 (Nov 8, 1999)

Right then,

Going by the blueprints of the phase II in the lost series book, the length of the warp engines should be as long or as wide as the saucer section.

The refit saucer dia. is about 1/2 an inch shorter than that of the engines. 

The cutaway saucer is about 1 1/2 inches shorter than the refit engines.

It seems to me that the refit engines are longer than the PII ones anyway and could do with being shorter by about 1/2 and inch at the rear - which is good because the prints show a join at the rear and it would bring it in line with the saucer width.

That would leave the problem of sorting out the angle of the saucers slopes as the PII saucer looks more like the ToS one in that respect.

I suppose the saucer could be cut out down to where the refit saucer is flat , then the cutaway sloped section could be inserted - much sanding later and you'd have a ToS shaped hull at the correct width!

I went out and bought a belt sander just so I could do those pesky PII engines. I tried trimming one side down by hand and it took me nearly 4 hours! Took 5mins tops with the sander -although I did go too far on one engine and had to use another smoothie's set as replacements!

I've reshaped the neck cutting off the torpedo section and scratch building a new one out of scraps.

To make the neck fit the saucer after I'd butchered it to match the PII, I just roughly stuck some air drying putty on the top, smoothed it to a rough finish (making sure I forced enough inside the kit part to stop it falling off) then pressed it against the saucer while it was still soft and got the shape pressed into the clay.

It's taking sooooo long, the neck alone took a week to do.

Should be worth it thought (I hope!)

Mike


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

^^Sounds great! Please post some pics and let us see how it's going!


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## Bay7 (Nov 8, 1999)

PerfesserCoffee said:


> ^^Sounds great! Please post some pics and let us see how it's going!


 Here's a combined image of all the parts I'm working on.

The neck needs finishing/sanding smooth with the sides of the torpedo section needing blending to an invisible join.

The grid lines on the saucer meant that I didn't have to scribe the plastic prior to cutting out the sloped sections for ToS style replacements. I used a pair of pliers and just twisted the plastic off - kept reminding me of those giant plier machines they use for breaking up airplanes!

I used scissors to cut out the ToS parts as the plastic is quite soft after laying the part under the refit saucer's hole and spraying paint on them to give me a rough guide where to cut (my model making is no exact science! ).

The top of the saucer is awaiting the B/C deck reliant replacement parts from DLM as the shape is closer to the PII's one than the refit or Tos version.

I'm taking a break from the warp engines as I'm sick of the sight of them.

As the top of the neck is plaster/putty based, I'm concerned as to whether it can support the saucer section. I think it will be too brittle to drill for internal supports.

Wasn't there an aftermarket maker who did refit engines in resin for the dreadnought conversion? I think doing these in resin would be so much easier than cuting through this strudy plastic!

Cheers,

Mike


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Whew! That's some hard work there! :thumbsup: 

Looks like you've nailed the shapes so far! :dude:


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## Bay7 (Nov 8, 1999)

Hey, thanks for that.

It's quite hard getting the shapes to match as ERTL's interpretation of the hull is quite different to 'official' diagrams etc.

Cheers,

Mike


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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

This is why I just did a relatively simple kitbash and called it a day.

Although, I am rather intrigued by the idea of doing another one on a larger scale...like after Polar Lights releases the big versions of the TOS and TMP ships...


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Bay7, do you think the 1/350th PL 1701 saucer be closer in shape to the Phase II since it is accurate to the refit?


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

Captain April said:


> This is why I just did a relatively simple kitbash and called it a day.
> 
> Although, I am rather intrigued by the idea of doing another one on a larger scale...like after Polar Lights releases the big versions of the TOS and TMP ships...


I've got several AMT/ERTL refits and the 1/350th PL on order and I'm planning on just doing the Phase II version for the big one and maybe one of the smaller ones. The rest of the AMT/ERTLs I'll make into custom starships with old style nacelles.


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## Bay7 (Nov 8, 1999)

PerfesserCoffee said:


> Bay7, do you think the 1/350th PL 1701 saucer be closer in shape to the Phase II since it is accurate to the refit?


 Oh yes, definatly.

The paint guide that comes with the ERTL kit shows the flaw in the saucer shape quite plainly - especially on the underside.

I've attached a picture of Polar lights new E (I hope Thomas doesn't mind - I'll remove it if he does) with the ERTL plan view below - the difference is quite plain!

The trouble with the new Enterprise is that after all these years of building ERTL's version, this one is going to look funny!

I wouldn't fancy cutting off all that plastic though - was bad enough on the smaller one!

Mike


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