# LiPo problem...



## XXX-Steve (Oct 23, 2008)

Yeah, I'm trying to figure out what's going on here. Last night I was racing and my LiPo cutoff on my ESC kept activating. This was happening after I was running only a couple minutes in on a freshly charged pack. I came to the conclusion that the problem is within my batteries after using another pack of the same brand and capacity and didn't have any problems.

Now, I don't really have a way to check cells other than with my charger. Both of my Orion packs (3200/3400) are reading 8.40 volts when charging. The thing is, I almost always use a balancer in charge-thru mode and just noticed today that I was ignoring an error that the battery voltage is too high. I think the error code was indicating that both packs are over 4.3V per cell.

So, are my packs done with? Do they need to be discharged? Anything else I could try before having to go out and spend $150.00 on some new packs?


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## guver (Jul 31, 2002)

Possible connection or worn out high IR cells. Any one connection will affect the whole pack if in the lead. A discharge test will pick it up real quick when viewing voltage.


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## hankster (Jan 1, 1998)

Once you run the pack and it starts cutting out, check the voltage in each cell. You can do that on a Orion pack using a voltage meter from the outside (bigger) connection to the smaller center hole. The voltage should be the same from both sides (bigger) to the center.


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## XXX-Steve (Oct 23, 2008)

Any idea how this could have happened? The one pack I bought back in January and had maybe five runs on it. The other one I bought used from a friend who takes real good care of his stuff. I always charge at 5 amps and can't figure out how I could have abused them.

I don't have a voltage meter so I can't read anything. Hank, weren't you selling some sort of cell reader thing awhile back? Can't remember where I saw that, but for some reason I recall it was you who had them. I'll take them to Butch tomorrow and see what he can do.


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## nutz4rc (Oct 14, 2003)

You should charge Lipos at 1C. That is for a 3200 pack charge at 3.2 amps, 4800 at 4.8 amps. I know they say you can charge up to 2C. However the four packs I have; have always been charged at 1C. All four are in balance and are over a year old and just as good as when they were new.


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## desidriver (Apr 10, 2009)

what charger do you have??


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## nutz4rc (Oct 14, 2003)

desidriver 
+1

Good question. Some chargers say they will do Lipos but don't really do a good job with the CC CV charge pattern.


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## SLASH4 (Aug 6, 2008)

*Try A Blinky Balancer*

If U Have A Blinky Balance They Really Do Work


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## XXX-Steve (Oct 23, 2008)

I'm using a the Venom Pro charger.

Went and saw Butch today Hank and the voltage on each cell in each pack was pretty even. Went to R&L and told the guy I was charging these both at 5.0A and he said that was my problem and that it's a miracle neither of these caught fire. Like nutz said, I need to charge these at 3.2 and 3.4 respectively. He also said to charge both at 3.0 for awhile just to be safe.

Another thing I'm curious about is when I put these on the charger no matter how full or empty they are, it automatically comes up as 8.40V on the charger. I've had them read as low as 8.23V, but almost always 8.40V.

Any other recommendations on how I can get the best of these packs if they're still any good?


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## XXX-Steve (Oct 23, 2008)

By the way, is there a way I can check to see what current or C rating my charger is charging at?


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## nutz4rc (Oct 14, 2003)

You may want to check and see if that charger does a lipo charge pattern. It should be identified as CC CV. This means that at first it charges at Constant Current, and then Charges at Constant Voltage. If the charger has a meter during the CV phase the amp rate should be dropping. The C charge rate is the amps you charge at. You said you were at 5. Change it to the lower rating and watch the batt closely for tempeature and swelling.


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## XXX-Steve (Oct 23, 2008)

Not sure if it has a LiPo charge pattern. I can't find it anywhere in the manual. But yeah, the amp rate always does drop to around 0.5 when it's almost done. I was just concerned about the voltage display. If a 2-cell LiPo is at 8.40V when it's fully charged, shouldn't that number be down after I use it? It's almost always at the 8.40V range when I put it back on the charger. If it isn't, it will quickly jump back up to it.

So, I wasn't quite at 2C with either pack when I was charging. It says never to go over that. I don't know, I'm still not sure what the problem is. The individual cells are where they should be and balanced according to the reading on the voltmeter, so yeah. I'm not going to get a chance to run these for awhile. Will pick up a voltmeter and check the readings like Hank suggested after this happens again.


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## kevinm (Jan 16, 2002)

Is this your charger?

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXUAB7&P=SM

It looks like this model doesn't have any mode other than LiPo, so you can't have it in the wrong mode. When you are charging, the voltage should slowly come up to 8.4V, not immediately like you're saying.


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## bustedpiecesrc (Oct 20, 2007)

if the label is still on the bottom of the packs, it tells you not to charge over the mah of the pack. so 3200 3.2v and 3400 3.4v.. i have orion lipos and they say that right on the bottom of the pack


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## XXX-Steve (Oct 23, 2008)

kevinm said:


> Is this your charger?
> 
> http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXUAB7&P=SM
> 
> It looks like this model doesn't have any mode other than LiPo, so you can't have it in the wrong mode. When you are charging, the voltage should slowly come up to 8.4V, not immediately like you're saying.


Yeah, that's the one. Actually though, it charges just about everything. I don't think I ever charged it in anything other than the LiPo mode. It's pretty touchy and won't allow you to operate it unless you set the correct cell count, confirm your selection, etc. That 8.4V thing might just be telling me what the total voltage is. The manual that came with this thing is very sketchy and only gives vague descriptions regarding certain display readings and functions.



bustedpiecesrc said:


> if the label is still on the bottom of the packs, it tells you not to charge over the mah of the pack. so 3200 3.2v and 3400 3.4v.. i have orion lipos and they say that right on the bottom of the pack


Well, I'm still kind of new to all this and just now beginning to understand the C rating, charge rates, and everything else that goes along with this technology. However, I was told by someone who's been in this hobby for a very long time that it was alright to charge these at 5.0A. The manual says never to charge over 2C and I never went over that (that would be 6.8A on the 3400, correct?). Like I said, I had two different people who know a lot about this check the packs yesterday and all indications point to them still being in good working order as far as the voltage reading on the complete pack and each individual cell go.

I'm probably going to email Orion about it. I'll get a chance to try these out again on Wednesday and I'll see if I get the same results.


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## nutz4rc (Oct 14, 2003)

You are correct don't go over 2C. However from experience, I can tell you that my Orions (3 packs) are all over a year old and have never been charged at anything but 1C. They are just as good today as when new. I recently purchased a balancer just to check and no pack had cells that were off more than .001 Volt between the two. 

Orion uses the best cells made by Kokam and I go by there recommendations. You will always get varying opinions but in the 40 years I have been in RC I have found that the manufacturers are usually correct.

Hope they are OK and good luck they are great batts.


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## guver (Jul 31, 2002)

In reading these posts, I see no problem with charger,rate. What I do see is a pack that is full and never gets used down very low at all. The test in post 3 is a very telling test. The cells are full and balanced.

The next test should be the one in post 2. Start pulling current from the pack while monitoring voltage. Your description of symptoms is enough to convince me that only 10 amps will show the trouble very quickly. Many chargers have a 10 amp discharge and even without monitoring each cell will allow the total pack's voltage to be monitored. I'm guessing it will fall on it's face (below 6-7 volts) right away because of a connection,high IR,tab,solder,lead,connector, ect. Continued probing with a dvm will pinpoint the trouble during the discharge.


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## desidriver (Apr 10, 2009)

can someone check this out and tell me, if this is a good LIPO charger?
http://cgi.ebay.de/iMAX-B6-AC-B6AC-...25924QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262
thanx


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## XXX-Steve (Oct 23, 2008)

Alright, I checked into the discharge mode on my charger and it will only do so at 1.0A. I went ahead and tried it and everything looked normal. I'm going to head out and see if I get the same results as before. Although, it will be hard to tell since I won't be running on the same track. Will also be sure to record the cell voltage when it starts cutting out.


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## XXX-Steve (Oct 23, 2008)

Something else I notice is when I charge them at 1C instead of the 5.0A I was using, the voltage reading doesn't immediately jump up to 8.40V. It's slowly climbing and looks more normal.


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## brian0525 (Jan 17, 2005)

charging at 5.0 amps did not hurt your lipos. Using a not so great charger might have.

I charged 3200 orions at 8 and 10 amps for a year and a half and broke the track record the last week I used them so to say 5.0 amps hurt them is silly.

what kind of car?
what kind of speedo?
what kind of motor?


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## XXX-Steve (Oct 23, 2008)

I'm using a TC4 set up for dirt oval Late Model racing. My speed controller is a Novak Havoc with the Novak SS 13.5 motor. It's currently geared at 34/60.

Since you mentioned the charger, I'm going to be using a Triton Jr. for the benchtest today. I'll be getting all my readings from that. We'll see how they compare with the Venom.


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## XXX-Steve (Oct 23, 2008)

Alright, I went out and put my 3200 in and it was at 8.14V. I ran in around for awhile, I'd say maybe 10-15 minutes, and it was still going strong. Felt like it had a lot of punch and never heated up or anything. The thing is, it wasn't a racing situation where I was putting a constant drain on the pack. I was just out testing. Anyway, I checked it on the Triton after I ran it and both cells were still balanced and the total voltage was 7.86V. Never got it to around 6.0V to see if it would perform under that.

I'm thinking I may just use these cells for off-road stuff where I'm not as hard on the throttle and constantly draining them.


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