# H:O GRIPE (venting)



## scooter72167 (Dec 9, 2005)

Hi All,
As I surf the other slot car boards, I see lots of new stuff coming out for the 1/32 scale hobbyists. I think it is great that AW and Dash are coming out with with stuff. However, I think a lot of collectors (such as me) would like to see newer racecars, not re-pops of older cars. There are many GTP and Can Am cars of the 70s & 80s as well as more current IMSA style racecars that would seem to interest a younger audience as well as the current hobbyist.

Am I the only one who thinks this way? I would like to hear what the rest of you think.

Evan


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## videojimmy (Jan 12, 2006)

I would rather see classic hot rods made. 
I like some of the re-issues.. but I wish they would make the more rare versions. This way we all could them..not just those who can cough up $200-300 bucks for a famaed AFX bel air .. for example. 

I would love it if someone made up all Tom Daniel's and Ed Roth's cars from the 60's and 70's. Man, would that be cool!


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

scooter72167 said:


> There are many GTP and Can Am cars of the 70s & 80s...
> Evan


I agree. I also love the Group C era that Tomy scratched the surface of. In the case of Dash and AW, we have the unusual facility to email the top guys at both companies. However as the first reply you got proves, 50 people doing so merely generates 50 people wanting 50 different cars and nobody is going to listen to that.

I started a thread which pretty much proved that, there was zero consensus and so no racing cars are getting made because somebody wants the '56 Chevrolet Pilocrap with the cherry red roof as opposed to the blood red roof or somesuch.


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## zanza (Sep 23, 2005)

Basta with the repops, there are still too many...

N E W C A R S....We want new cars


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## micyou03 (Apr 8, 2003)

I vote for new cars.


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

micyou03 said:


> I vote for new cars.


So could the guys on Hobbytalk all agree on, say, three sensible racing cars and put that to Tom or Lenny? I doubt it very much....

dw


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## BRPHO (Aug 1, 2006)

Hi Guys!

I will play the other side of the fence here.

I am enjoying the repops Tom is making or at least showing on his web cam.

Why would I pay top $$$ for an original piece of s#!t when I can buy a nice repopped one for $10-$15?????

A lot of the originals you see at the shows selling as "runners" cost much more than what Tom is selling current cars new at like the Dukes of Hazard cars....

Most of these runners are in pretty poor shape but these guys still want $20-$30 each on average if not more......

If someone is willing to manufacture repops and or new cars, I wouldn't complain about it!

I don't see Tomy or Mattel/Tyco(or whoever they are now adays) stepping up to the plate to do so......

Yes I will give tomy credit for the cobra daytonas and chappys but over a how many year span did it take to get them out of them?

They had pretty much the same line up of cars for years......

I commend Tom of AW and Dash motor sports for all the repops and new cars they are making!!!!!

We all want new cars made. Myself included but it costs $$$ to tool up and make all these different cars that each of us want.

Maybe over time Tom can take a poll to have the hobbytalk board members vote on new cars we would like to see produced like many of you mentioned.

Maybe if we can get enough guys voting for particular cars then maybe it will be enough for Tom or others to look into manufacturing them for us....

I'm all for more Hotrods,streetrods and old vintage drag cars and the like but that is just my area of interest!!!!

Not looking to step on toes but I think we need to be Thankful for what cars are being reproduced again!

I'm tired of over priced original garbage at the shows.

I want more repops that are affordable that I am not afraid to race

If you "F" them up, spend $15 and go buy another new one!

How much better can life be?????

Just my 2 cents from the other side of the fence!!!!

Wayne


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## scooter72167 (Dec 9, 2005)

I understand that it is alot cheaper to run a repop than an original. But how about the fact that collectors aquire rare cars, paying crazy kinds of money for them, then a repop comes out. This lowers the demand for the originals and kills the value of these rare bodies. I would be pissed if I collected them. If new bodies were made, the manufacturers, the collectors, & the racers would benefit. 

Thoughts....

Evan


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## BRPHO (Aug 1, 2006)

"I understand that it is alot cheaper to run a repop than an original. But how about the fact that collectors aquire rare cars, paying crazy kinds of money for them, then a repop comes out."

I look at it this way, not only with slot cars but all collectibles no matter what it is, If it can be made once it can be made again!

I myself am not a collector per se. I am a racer more so.

I don't get caught up in paying absorbanant prices for originals only to loss my a$$ on them down the road.....

With any hobby if your only in it to try and make a killing in it down the road $$$ wise then that is the chance you take when someone comes along and makes a repop of the very same original you just shelled out big bucks for...

It is these same people that kill hobbies by jacking up the prices on slot cars and such making it harder for the guys who are in the hobby for what it is to stay participating in it.

I love to see these guys loose their A$$'$ money wise when someone comes out with a repop of an original of a high dollar car.

It helps keep the hobby in check $$$ wise.....

Look at the hot wheels redline hobby.

It is stupidly expensive what these people command $$$ wise for those cars.

I love it when I can buy a repop of an original for $2 on the Target or Kmart or Wallyworld rack!

I'm all for repoping to allow everyone a chance to own the rarer cars that they couldn't if they were not reproduced......

Just my views and 2 cents......

Wayne


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## vaBcHRog (Feb 19, 2003)

I personally don’t care if the price of an original Aurora goes down







The cheaper the better. Most collectors are not collecting for the value of the car but to have the actual car. If someone is collecting hoping to make money then they takes their chances like any other investment. I Hope Auto World repops all the Aurora, AFX, TYCO etc that they can. The more profit they make the more stable the company should be an in the end the more new bodies we will end up with. The problem with new modern bodies is not the cost of having the molds made and produced its all the licensing fees and process to get something licensed. It use to be fee advertisement for the companies but now they know their is more money to be made they want it.

Roger Corrie


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## Nightshade (Jan 15, 2006)

Okay,

Everyone has a good point here, so now I thought I would weigh in...and this is coming from one of the new generation (So to speak...and don't ask my wife how old I am!)

I just started slot cars back in December '05. I only had an Xcellerator track back in '70, so I don't have anything other than new stuff.

I like the repops because I can get them and not break the pocket book. I think that the most of us are really wanting to race rather than collect. 

I don't think that a repop should lower the cost of the original. Look at how everyone wants a quadralam. It doesn't do this for antiques (e.g. George Orr pottery, Van Wynkle lamps, etc.), so it really shouldn't for those who want the original. Re-pops only pulls those away who want that particualr car to race (my small opinion, that).

As one of the new generation, I also would *REALLY* like to see some of the new cars ('06 Mustang, '07 or '08 camaro coming out, new GTO, etc.). I would also like to see some of the newer GT racing cars and others too.

Montoya brings up a good point here about not being able to decide. We at HobbyTalk have an excellent opportunity....why couldn't the head guys at AW and Dash come up with, say, three cars for us to choose from. They pick the one that the most of us agree on. They make that car. Next time they make the 2nd voted on, then the 3rd voted on..or even bring in another car and revote each year (so the second year we would have to choose from the first two cars not picked and a 3rd new one).

I feel that we'll all pick one or more of them up, no matter what it is. And over the course of time, we would be getting more new cars vs. not getting any, or very few.

So...after having said all that.....I like both re-pops and the idea of new cars. I asked in another thread if Carrera made HO because they were making all the newer GT cars. When I was told it was 1/43rd, I just about cried.

Being a Mechanical Engineer and a Manager of a manufacturing facility, I understand the cost of re-tooling. Maybe if we were told how many cars are needed to be purchased, we can come together and decide on a new car that will benefit all. It would be sad that it wouldn't happen when we have such a great chance in making it happen.

Again, just my humble opinion...and like something else _I won't mention here_...everyone has one. :thumbsup: 

Mike

P.S. If we did go with that route of voting, could a new Section be made for us to state the car we want, then those who also choose that car add their reply. Then over a pre-set period of time AW and Dash look at who has the most pages, or replies, on that topic/car choice. they could even decide to each do one from the top two choices........


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

> However, I think a lot of collectors (such as me) would like to see newer race cars, not re-pops of older cars. There are many GTP and Can Am cars of the 70s & 80s as well as more current IMSA style race cars that would seem to interest a younger audience as well as the current hobbyist.


I couldn't agree more. But the people who are forking over the $$$ and taking the initiative to Produce Things are the ones who get to call the shots. They decide what to produce based on what they think will sell. 

Truth be told, the vast majority of HO slot car collectors are old men who want to recapture a piece of their lost youth through a hobby that they've returned to after a long absence or hung on to at some level for decades. A lot of these collectors have a number of cars that they longed for when they were young. Now they're older and have the means to obtain just about every toy slot car they have ever wanted, which has led to grotesque overvaluing of these vintage, originally low cost, toys on E-Bay. But even with the seemingly endless supply of money to be thrown around, the numbers are not in favor of the collectors who miss out, and those collectors of lesser means. That's where the repops, aka copies, aka reproductions, aka copy cats, aka whatever you want to call them fit in. Want the the original but you're not one of Bill Gate's bridge partners? Buy a cheap Chinese copy of a cheap Chinese original, sit back and smile. No harm, no foul. 

I am also very concerned about the weak attempts to capture the younger market, especially those in the 8-14 year old market. I think most slot car product makers completely write off that market. Companies like Mattel mostly produce infantile movie-themed race sets aimed at the 6 and under crowd. HO cars are simply too complex and intricate for 6 years olds to properly manage by themselves and a lot of sets get returned by frustrated mothers. So what racing related thing is hot with kids in the target age group? NASCAR. But show me a single NASCAR themed set that accurately models the real NASCAR experience with big, sweeping, banked ovals and all their favorite drivers. Another unserved or under served market. So instead of trying to sustain the hobby with new blood manufacturers just keep going back to the same old formula that works. When grandfather time catches up with all of us someone is going to be left holding a massive collection of vintage toys that nobody will give a hoot about and they'll end up in the loving care of Waste Management or BFI. 

I personally think the situation is better with HO slot car racing, especially in the magnet car arena. Trust me, the quaintness of TJets is lost on a lot of the kids. But not so with the adrenaline pumping magnet cars. They come as close to video games as slot car racing can get. I see a very good mix of younger kids and teenagers racing at both the local and national level, and some of them are tremendously talented. This gives me hope for the hobby and sport. If they love racing they may start to notice the craftsmanship and modeling excellence in many of the cars and save them from the scrap heap. They may also create a market for newer focused and contemporary products that we can tap into before we are too old to miss out.


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## micyou03 (Apr 8, 2003)

"So...after having said all that.....I like both re-pops and the idea of new cars. I asked in another thread if Carrera made HO because they were making all the newer GT cars. When I was told it was 1/43rd, I just about cried."

I'm sorry Nightshade, I may have misled you. The newer GT cars you are seeing from Carrera are 1/32nd. The Carrera Go!!! line is 1/43rd and so far this line does not have new GT cars.


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## Nightshade (Jan 15, 2006)

Hehe, that's ok. They still won't fit on my HO track. Oh well....it's something to hope for.

AfxToo...well said about NASCAR sets. You would think that they would do something like that. I don't even see them doing something at a booth at the actual race tracks, which could be a lot of fun. Of course, if I were a 15 year old I would have a tough time choosing between racing someone on a slot track or seeing the women there lift their shirts up.

I guess the best thing for me to do is to work at keeping my 5 year old interested in it.....that way, once we all go by the way of the Dodo, he'll collect all our cars.  

Mike


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## Tazman6069 (Mar 20, 2005)

I'm for any repops. I would put a new 55 Chevy w/flames next to my Originals.


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

Of course we have to take in to account that racing cars cost more. To do a modern-day Nascar you have to pay four or more parties to get the license deal, which is madness. It should be a once-only deal (To Nascar) with the teams and drivers getting a standard cut but no say if the model gets made or not. But even without that, a strangely large number of people seem to prefer putting road-car based vehicles on their race track. Why is that?


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## newbombturk (Dec 2, 2000)

I would love to see Group C, WSC and Daytona Prototypes. I have also clammored for years abt. getting the licensing agreements with Floyd Metrux for the Movie cars from the 1980 film "The Hollywood Knights"....but who listens anyway. 
Newbombturk aka Rocky


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## videojimmy (Jan 12, 2006)

"I asked in another thread if Carrera made HO"

Actually they did make a few HO scale cars... but they are VERY hard to come by. I only ever saw three listed on ebay, of which, I bought one.


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

They made some really nice stuff.

http://www.carrera160.de/

Examples:


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## micyou03 (Apr 8, 2003)

I never knew this. Thanks for the info. Cool cars.


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## hoslotfrance (Mar 6, 2006)

Agree with you "scooter" : I wish new cars.

My vote for 3 "wants" (all 1/64° naturally  )

- Lola T 70 MK3 :  
- Lola T 160 can-am 1967: to complete AFX can-am grid....
- Lola T 600 GTP 1981 : to complete Tomy GTP grid 

A sedan car ? Okay : Ford Cortina 1966

Regards Francois

(and the March 83G GTP..... :thumbsup: )


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

micyou03 said:


> I never knew this. Thanks for the info. Cool cars.


I just picked those three cars at random, if you go to the site there is a lot of nice stuff. I wish that Carrera would do this line again instead of the 1/40 scale stuff.

I think the 'servo' stuff is slotless....


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

hoslotfrance said:


> Agree with you "scooter" : I wish new cars.
> 
> My vote for 3 "wants" (all 1/64° naturally  )
> 
> ...


But here come the problem. My three racing car choices are totally different to yours, as so will be all those who follow...


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## hoslotfrance (Mar 6, 2006)

About Carrera : Here is a pic on our Brands Hatch track .
Ford Capri Zackspeed with Porsche 935 Moby dick in the 
background . Both are Carrera 160 fitted on modified 
G+ chassis ( our Group 5 class allows only G+....)


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## hoslotfrance (Mar 6, 2006)

Montoya , I think your wants are too low bodies to make a beautiful HO car...
(and it's a black period for endurance motorsport  )


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## hoslotfrance (Mar 6, 2006)

Beautiful ass , isn't it ?  (lola T 160)
And this body is completely new on the slot scene (except the old Strombecker 1/32°)....


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

hoslotfrance said:


> Montoya , I think your wants are too low bodies to make a beautiful HO car...
> (and it's a black period for endurance motorsport  )


Maybe so what about these. Point is I think 100 guys will pick 300 cars, only if you surveyed 5000 or more would you get a clear winner.


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## dlw (Aug 17, 1999)

*Best Of Both Worlds Here*

I like the repops.....besides, they are slightly different from the originals so the collectors cars keep their value, and those who like but can't afford the original can have a reasonable fascimile to play with. 

And the new bodies are a no-brainer. Everyone here looks forward to the next original body to come off the line. And what really cool is that AW is cranking out some of the old Tyco bodies. I'd love to see the Union Jack Lola T260 on an AFX/XT chassis.


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## hoslotfrance (Mar 6, 2006)

Let's talk about really beautiful cars...... The Lola T600 GTP


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

See, that proves my point. In the main I think the T600 looks terrible, although the Interscope version (being black) hides its deformaties well.
Just my POV, but it shows consensus is unlikely.


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## hoslotfrance (Mar 6, 2006)

The March 83G GTP is easy for HO because high sides.... And many color shemes ( a goldmine for Patto's ! )

The solution is : re-done of old Aurora to bring back money , then money used to create new bodies...


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## micyou03 (Apr 8, 2003)

Montoya1 said:


> I just picked those three cars at random, if you go to the site there is a lot of nice stuff. I wish that Carrera would do this line again instead of the 1/40 scale stuff.
> 
> I think the 'servo' stuff is slotless....


I wish they would do those cars in 1/43rd.


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

micyou03 said:


> I wish they would do those cars in 1/43rd.


why do they do 1/40 and 1/43 scales?


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## micyou03 (Apr 8, 2003)

Oh yea, the Profis. They are very expensive for me to get here. They are also a bit too big for my 1/43rd track. The onlt GTs I am aware of in the 1/43rd go cars are the Porsche GT3s. I have a few of those including these that I just got this week. The lights flash very nicely and are pretty bright.


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## TK Solver (Mar 18, 2004)

This guy has done some nice custom paint work on the HO GTP cars...

http://www.hocustom.com/Sports_Cars_pg_0.htm


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## hoslotfrance (Mar 6, 2006)

Wow ! What a shiny page ! :thumbsup: (and I can see some of my projects : Ferrari F40 Totip , Porsche 910 Martini....)
Great !


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## hoslotfrance (Mar 6, 2006)

And he sells decals too ! :thumbsup:


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## scooter72167 (Dec 9, 2005)

I actually detailed a few of the cars on Craigs site (HO Customs). Also, you can see more of my stuff here 

Evan


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## hoslotfrance (Mar 6, 2006)

Hi Evan . I weekly check patto's gallery to discover your cars ! :thumbsup:


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

Evan, great looking stuff.


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## hefer (Sep 18, 1999)

I don't really care for Open Wheel and Can-Am or GTP cars. I vote for any street car, be it modern or classic.


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## Montoya1 (May 14, 2004)

And this is why we don't see more race cars, for every Montoya1 you have a hefer or three.Personally I think street cars are boring and look wrong on a race track but each to his own, they are much cheaper to license of course.


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## hoslotfrance (Mar 6, 2006)

mmmh...! In this case of street cars , please choose models we can add to the Aurora old NASCAR field .
For exemple the Ford Torino 1969 (and his dramatic fastback  )


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## hoslotfrance (Mar 6, 2006)

The chevrolet Laguna 1977 could also be a good choice to satisfy "streeters and racers"...


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## AfxToo (Aug 29, 2003)

Everyone's entitled to there own opinion and the manufacturers have to produce products that sell. I place most of the blame for the lack of proper race themed vehicles, NASCAR and F1 included, on aggressive licensing practices. To me a branded toy car is free advertising and a means to build a fan base from an early age. This pays long term dividends to the sport and the sponsored products. In fact, it's so effective that toys can no longer contain free advertising for adult oriented products like tobacco and alcohol. You would think the benefits of free advertising would be good enough, but no. They've adopted the taxation model, pay me now (license fees) and pay me again later (product purchases). The system affords them these options and you can't blame them from taking advantage of the system.


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## hoslotfrance (Mar 6, 2006)

Agree with you . These licences are bullshit . It began with Chaparral and Cox slot racing ( true ? ). Other manufactures named theier Chaparral "american racers" and so on....
On the french static resin kit 1/43° scene in the 90's , the "coolest" brand was Alfa-Romeo . They didn't ask anything . I swore that I'll buy an Alfa Romeo when I'll buy a brand new car !!!


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## hefer (Sep 18, 1999)

I have a solution. How about a twin-pak with a street version and a racing version? I think that would be fantabulus! Also on free advertising. My favorite Tjet when I was 10, Wild One Camaro. When I turned 16 my car of choice, 68 Camaro. Still drive a 79 I bought new. Nuff Said!


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## zanza (Sep 23, 2005)

scooter72167 said:


> I actually detailed a few of the cars on Craigs site (HO Customs). Also, you can see more of my stuff here
> 
> Evan


Great cars Evan....I remember that you were also hosting your creations on Mr Bob website
His website is down for month now, so do you know maybe what happens to this site and if it still exist somewhere else ?


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## scooter72167 (Dec 9, 2005)

zanza said:


> Great cars Evan....I remember that you were also hosting your creations on Mr Bob website
> His website is down for month now, so do you know maybe what happens to this site and if it still exist somewhere else ?


Thanks Zanza! I sent Bob an email a while back but got no response. I see his name on the bay from time to time, so he is still around. If anyone else knows more, don't hesitate to comment.

Evan


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