# Does the Star Trek 18"er Enterprise win at model contests?



## MadCap Romanian (Oct 29, 2005)

Hi everyone!

Over the weekend, I entered the Calgary RMMC model show in Naton, Alberta, Canada and entered my U.S.S. Constitution (From Franz Joseph Blueprints) and U.S.S. Excalibur (the blown up one) that you guys have seen posted here before.

Well, out of the 7 other models I entered (5 won awards), the two 18"er kits didn't win.

In previous years, I also entered in my U.S.S. Republic and didn't win with that one either. 

I know of a few other people that entered the 18"er and never won with it...so I wonder if anyone has won an award for building an 18"er, and if so, how?

Do you have to use lights to win?

What is your opinion?

P.S. I love the 18"er and I'll still build a million of them, and I love entering contests. I'm not trying to be Whiney or politiacl. I'm just curious if there has been any sucess with an 18"er as a "trophy winning Kit"....because I have never had sucess with it in that sense.


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## rossjr (Jun 25, 2001)

About the only time I recall see them win in the past 5 or so years was in waht I think they called Chicago style judging. That is where every kit comes in the door as a potential Gold and is judged solely on the quality of its build. Now some clubs habe taken this to another level where you can only win one award in each category, but unless it's something really special they don't tend to do well. And most judges would not understand any of the improvements you might make to make the kit more accurate.

I have to say I think the same is true about P-51 Mustangs and a few other aircraft that get done to death...

I think that is one of the concerns I have about the announced 1/350 scale kit of this subject, I suspect we will see a lot at contests after it's released but I don't know that it would win any awards...


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## WarpCore Breach (Apr 27, 2005)

I haven't either, Trev! I've never seen one win at the WCR contests, ever. Now, if you would enter _Star Wars_ models, you are practically GUARANTEED a win.....! LOL! (SW models have taken the Gold for the last 5 years, I think. I recall that it's a rare thing that the Gold doesn't go to a SW model. Sour grapes? I hope not!!)

Seriously, I think that you - and me, as well - would have to "step up our game" to make an 18"er a serious contest contender. It's a simple model to build but an exceptionally hard one to look good in a contest. I employ a number of aftermarket parts to address some of the problems that the kit has, but it's very hard to correct everything that needs correcting on that model. But there are some simple changes you can do to improve your chances, I feel.

I was stunned when my battle-damaged _Constellation_ took 3rd place at last year's contest, but the only stock kit part was the secondary hull. Coincidence? Maybe. I'd like to test that theory sometime as I have a few resin sections based on the original kit, but more accurate.

I think that on CultTVman's old site, he had a number of the 18" E's that did win at various contests, but some 95% of the models from his old site are no longer available so I can't check to be sure.


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

Well, three years of research and nearly a year of scratch building to make the only (that I know of) replica of the 33 inch version of the Enterprise got me nothing when I entered it in a contest.

Believe me, I'll never make that mistake (entering anything I build in a contest) again.


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## WarpCore Breach (Apr 27, 2005)

Shaw, if you go to contests expecting to win something, you're going to be VERY disappointed. Believe me, I know... but also an expectation I try very hard to not to go to contests with.

Even though the WCR (Western Canada Regional) contest is far more accepting of SF models than some other contests I've heard about, it's still a hard category to compete in. This year's winners in SF Vehicles was a Fine Molds 1/48 TIE, and 2 _Macross_ early Valkyries (I think; definitely not the ones from the original series). The Valks were stunning; the work exceptionally high. I don't know why the FM TIE won, though. While it was exquisite model like all of Fine Molds line and the painting very well done... it didn't stand out for me like the Valkyries did. There was also a pair of Ertl TIEs from the same builder of the FM kit that also looked very good, but they didn't place. My own entry (_When Worlds Collide_ Space Ark) was one I frankly built and painted in only 2 weeks- extremely fast for me but I knew that my chances were not great. I did get compliments on the model, but it was NOT a contest-worthy model... but the only one I could get done in time.

Still, personal experience for myself indicates that _Trek_ is not considered a worthy subject for contests. I know it's tempting to claim "bias", but there's no proof other than even well built _Trek _doesn't normally win. Am I bitter? I wouldn't say so.

I'm sorry to hear that your scratchbuild didn't do as you hoped. Years ago, I put a totally scratchbuilt Lyran cruiser (from the _Star Fleet Battles_ game) and like yours, it was ignored. The comments I got on it was "it was really well done, but what was it?". Okay, first, READ the sheet I supplied... and second, unfamiliarity with a certain subject shouldn't disqualify it from consideration. That was my only gripes from that year... and yes, lessons were learned, hopefully for the better for me.


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## nautilusnut (Jul 9, 2008)

Having judged at several IPMS contests I can say that subject matter is not supposed to be of any concern. There were times when I was asked why a particular model won and the answer was always "craftmanship." Judges look first and foremost for good basic building. All seams filled and invisible, smooth paint, no glue smears or shiney spots, visible decal film, etc. This eliminates the largest portion of the models. Then it gets down to the best finish, modifications to stock kits, etc. Two or three guys looking at a model very critically for anything wrong with it will usually find something- it's rarely perfect. All have to agree on the best build and so probably not a a case of someone having something "against" a particular show or model type.


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

WarpCore Breach said:


> Shaw, if you go to contests expecting to win something, you're going to be VERY disappointed. Believe me, I know... but also an expectation I try very hard to not to go to contests with...


That is why I'll never enter another one.

From what I observed, people who knew the judges did better than the model builders who did the best work or the more challenging subjects. And I was aware that that type of thing happens (like the Wonderfest _Disco-prise_). Those types of situations are best avoided, specially as there wasn't any (that I could see) benefit or positive reason for risking transporting/displaying my model.

I mean I spent days worrying about transporting the model, got to the contest early to safely set up the model, watched other modelers push it around trying to find room for their models, waited until everyone else had removed their models so I could safely take down my model and worried about it the whole way home. Add to that the fact that I printed out a ton of historical and reference materials (so the judges would know what the original model looked like), and brought the plans that I researched, drew and worked from. And after all that most people (including the judges) still didn't get the fact that they were looking at the first physical representation of that model to see the light of day in nearly 32 years (most seem to think it was another 18 inch Enterprise kit).

So yeah, if that wasn't _good enough_ to place, then why would I risk _running the gauntlet_ again with anything else (specially anything more valuable or rare)? 

And I'm not really sure I would have felt that much different had I placed (or won)... it was still a lot of risk that wasn't off set in any way. It is safer to share the model via images online (with people who know what they are looking at and no risk to the model itself). It was neat to show the model to *USS Atlantis*, but I could have found a much easier (and less risky) way of doing that than entering a contest.

In the end the only _winning_ strategy I can see is not to enter. :thumbsup:


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## USS Atlantis (Feb 23, 2008)

Dave

You notice what I won with my mini-Romulan?

Zip, zilch, nada

Probably cause it was stuck in the shadow of your excellent build

Will I enter another contest (Nordic-con) again? Probably

Will I win? I dunno - I don't really care all that much - just having the judges look it over is enough

Course it's up to you

BTW: You coming back to the Monday meeting anytime soon? 
Next week, the 13th is the next one


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## MadCap Romanian (Oct 29, 2005)

Interesting Shaw. 

I like to enter the contests to see what other people have built. (As well as compete myself) I do think there are a ton of people out there that don't bother to read the cards or that appreciate the actual history of kits.

I know that I myself have entered OOP car models in the past and I even overheard IPMS judges asking "What is that?" over one of my 1975 Oldsmobile kits. 

But I wouldn't let 1 contest force you into never entering again. I found that each contest is unique. Something of mine that didn't win in one contest was the Gold Medal Winner in another one held by other people. It's just a matter of who's there.

Heck! One contest I entered was entirely won by members of the club. How biased is that?

P.S. I once entered a 1969 Ford Torino with an automatic transmission. I read about the construction of AT's and discovered that their SHOULD be a seam line up the center of the Tranny, it's how they are bolted together. So I left the seam line in there and sure enough, the judges penalized me for it. So yeah...people don't know.


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## BolianAdmiral (Feb 24, 2009)

I don't compete. I also don't play the politics game. I build for my own enjoyment, and so that I can have something nice-looking (hopefully) that I can proudly display in my own home. 

The moment I start building things to compete or with the intention to win something is the moment is goes from being something fun to being a chore. To be perfectly blunt, I don't care what other people think of what I build, because I'm doing it for me, for fun. That's all that matters.

That being said, I can go to a model show and appreciate everyone's efforts, and can find something to compliment everyone on... for lack of a better phrase, IMO, this isn't a contest... it's a hobby that's supposed to be relaxing.

Just my two cents.

*MadCap*: The judge who asked you "What is that?" was clearly being an a-hole... you should have flipped him the bird and replied "I don't know... what is this?"


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## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

I enjoy entering models into competition from time to time, but I try never to let myself get worked up over the winning or non-winning of awards.

In my experience, more often than not, one wins when one should lose, and vice-versa. I've lost out to inferior craftsmanship on more than one occasion, and at other times I've taken home the gold when it ought to have gone to a more deserving modeler. It's the nature of the beast. The point is to have fun.

That said, I do at times resent the extent to which sci-fi judges tend to be swayed in favor of heavily weathered subjects, even when the weathering in question is overwrought. Perhaps it's just me, but given a contest between an expertly built "new and clean" subject and an adequately (or even amateurishly) built "used and dirty" subject, the latter will win nine times out of ten.


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## scifiguy67 (Jan 18, 2011)

yes i won 1st place one time for a lighted "22" back in '96 or'97 i got a plaque and got to pick 2 free models i agree with shaw its not worth the transport and people almost knocking it over. i said to myself i will never do this again!


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## CLBrown (Sep 8, 2010)

The "33-inch" was an amazing build, no question about it... and that it didn't even get a glance from the judges says a lot.

I would never enter any contest assuming that I'd get any recognition, though... I might want people to see my work, but I wouldn't even take it unless it were inside of a plexiglass cage. (FYI, just doing that is often enough to get people's attention, though, I've noticed!)

I'd have loved to have seen the 33" replica... but that's because I care about the subject, and care about how much effort went into the whole thing.

The judges probably assume you bought something out of a box and glued it together. Hell, you didn't even have sparkly-vampires in a diorama with it... what were you thinking???


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## 1701ALover (Apr 29, 2004)

I entered both the 18" TOS and the 22" refit in a contest MANY years ago (there aren't any model building contests around here, anymore). The TOS Enterprise only got an honorable mention for sci-fi, but the refit won 1st place for sci-fi, and 4th place for the overall contest. I think it's just the design more than the execution of the kit. The refit is just more detailed and "cool" looking with the back-swept nacelles, etc. I'll be interested to see if the size and finer details will make any difference once the 1:350 TOS kit comes out and starts showing up at contests.


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## BolianAdmiral (Feb 24, 2009)

^

Well, as has been pointed out earlier in this thread... it seems that judges tend to gravitate towards the overkill... the models that are over-weathered, over-detailed, and over-lit. I'm sure if someone mods out their 350 1701 enough, the judges will hand out some awards for them. I think it's sad that in this day in age, people fast forget that sometimes subtlety can speak volumes, and less can often be more.


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## getter weevil (May 20, 2010)

Generally it is not the model subject itself, but the craftmanship basics which are met or exceeded than can garner awards.

I have helped to judge the sci-fi category at a local show and can tell you the subject itself is not going to get an award. Someone brought a studio scale Sith Fighter to this show...which is a pretty rare and pricey kit. It is a huge kit as well. The judges could not figure out why there was no canopy glass and explained the kit should not be marked down for that since "Studio" models for star wars didn't have the canopy glass. 

I heard the builder of this kit bitch about getting snubbed for an award. He was bull fit angry about it. I did not have the heart to tell the dude he had sloppy paint, sloppy seams, non symetrical details. This kit may have been a larger and unique item but it lacked modeling basic craftsmanship.

For this Enterprise kit in this thread perhaps it was very well researched and well put together with the basics addressed, but the was something on the table that looked better in terms of this or it had a slight flaw construction or paint wise ( I can't say for sure since have not seen the kit or the others in this contest).

I know it does not make you feel better but it is how contests work sometimes.


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## CLBrown (Sep 8, 2010)

getter weevil said:


> Generally it is not the model subject itself, but the craftmanship basics which are met or exceeded than can garner awards.
> 
> I have helped to judge the sci-fi category at a local show and can tell you the subject itself is not going to get an award. Someone brought a studio scale Sith Fighter to this show...which is a pretty rare and pricey kit. It is a huge kit as well. The judges could not figure out why there was no canopy glass and explained the kit should not be marked down for that since "Studio" models for star wars didn't have the canopy glass.
> 
> ...


You should take a look, first, before you say this, then.

Shaw's work was not from a "kit" at all. He spent a ton of time researching the model (he's got the best library of original 1701 on-screen reference data I've seen, frankly, especially since the IDIC page seems to be defunct). His model was a nearly-perfect replica of the 33" filming minature. He posted a ton of photos of the whole thing, through the entire process, and I've seen photos of the model as completed. There was no indication of any of the flaws you infer in your comments. David, correct me if I'm wrong?

I think that the judges simply had a bias. I've gone to numerous shows, and seen the stuff that the judges get excited about, and it's seldom been what impressed ME. In this case, they saw an "Enterprise model" and, from their limited attention, probably "not even a screen-accurate one" (the 33" model is unlike the 11' model in many ways).

Ignorance and preconceived biases, on the part of the judges, would seem to be the issue here, not research, effort, or quality of final result.

That said, honestly, I don't get the idea of modeling for competitive purposes, anyway. The idea is to show off your work to your peers, and have them show off their work to you. Getting a cheap piece of ribbon, to me, seems like it wouldn't add anything to the experience anyway!

I'll never enter into a contest in some hopes of "winning recognition" from some would-be "authorities." 

But I might want to show off my work to my peers, if I'm proud of what I've done. That's the only reason I'd ever do that. And screw the silly ribbon!:dude:


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## BolianAdmiral (Feb 24, 2009)

^

Yeah, the real culprit really is the stupidness of the judges... I don't understand why they can't have different panels of judges for the various categories... have judges that are versed and familiar with the sci-fi genre to judge that category, and have judges who know all about cars to judge that category, and so on... but don't have some judge who doesn't know diddly-squat about sci-fi, let alone have the ability to appreciate it, preside over the judgment of a sci-fi piece. Granted not everyone's work is award-material, but if a judge has to ask "What's that", like in a post previous, that's not good.


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## getter weevil (May 20, 2010)

CLBROWN : If you note in my previous post I stated that I had not seen Shaw's work on this Enterprise or the other work at the contest so I could not make a comparison in his specific case and as a result make a determination as to why possibly he did not get an award of some form.

I don't read every thread on here but I personally have not seen Shaw's stuff. I was saying that I had seen examples of well researched stuff that had some construct type of flaws to them at other shows and it was a possibility his model might (did you read that key word) fall into this area of stuff I have seen at other shows.


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## CLBrown (Sep 8, 2010)

getter weevil said:


> CLBROWN : If you note in my previous post I stated that I had not seen Shaw's work on this Enterprise or the other work at the contest so I could not make a comparison in his specific case and as a result make a determination as to why possibly he did not get an award of some form.
> 
> I don't read every thread on here but I personally have not seen Shaw's stuff. I was saying that I had seen examples of well researched stuff that had some construct type of flaws to them at other shows and it was a possibility his model might (did you read that key word) fall into this area of stuff I have seen at other shows.


Yes, I did see that. I'm not being hostile to you.

By the way, the term "ignorance" is not an insult, either... for instance, about this particular model, you are certainly ignorant... ie, you lack knowledge and information. Just as I'm personally ignorant of many other topics... and don't feel bad at all about that. (And there are many other topics I WISH I was still ignorant about! :dude: )

What I said was that these particular judges were "ignorant" (ie, they didn't really know anything about the topic he'd based his model upon) and were "biased" (they see an Enterprise and they immediately sort of shut down...). That's what I'm assuming is what happened here.

But then again, it's not as if there's money, or life for that matter, on the line. It's a freakin' HOBBY, not a competition! 

FYI, check out the model (or rather, what I believe is the most recent pass at it) here...

http://www.therpf.com/f11/two-thirds-scale-33-inch-tos-enterprise-78202/


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## USS Atlantis (Feb 23, 2008)

I'll echo Mr Brown here

I closely examined Shaw's TOS-E when he displayed it at Nordic-Con last year

Almost perfect build - couldn't find seams, proportions seemed exact, the attention to detail was superb

Someday I hope to build even half that well


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## Warped9 (Sep 12, 2003)

BolianAdmiral said:


> I think it's sad that in this day in age, people fast forget that sometimes subtlety can speak volumes, and less can often be more.


You've got that right. But then it might always have been true.


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## Storvick (Jan 21, 2003)

I gave up on putting my models into the contests. Last one I was in the model that won gold was a TIE fighter that looked like a 3 year old put it togather. major seam gaps and messed up paint job and the judges gave it gold over all the other sci-fi models out there.


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## nautilusnut (Jul 9, 2008)

My personal experience from the IPMS sponsored contests that I have personally judged, is they are fair. Every attempt is made to have at least one of the three judges required for any category to be familiar with the subject matter. If the judge has an entry in that category his is not allowed to judge his own work. I'm not saying a bias can't and doesn't exist in some contests- but the IPMS (International Plastic Modelers Society) ones I've been to I would say are generally very fair.

One thing I DO think is that we need MORE people to enter these shows. This would promote interest and appreciation of the hobby. The sci-fi and monster section is always slim, I personally would love to change that.


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## getter weevil (May 20, 2010)

CLBrown said:


> Yes, I did see that. I'm not being hostile to you.
> 
> By the way, the term "ignorance" is not an insult, either... for instance, about this particular model, you are certainly ignorant... ie, you lack knowledge and information. Just as I'm personally ignorant of many other topics... and don't feel bad at all about that. (And there are many other topics I WISH I was still ignorant about! :dude: )
> 
> ...


Thanks for clearing that up CLBROWN 

The link to kit in question shows excellent craftsmanship. Based on that it would seem a bias was there thinking this was a regular kit. If I was at the judging table this would have been a contender for an award it is a super clean build.

The judges probably did not read what the heck was done to make this one.

nautliusniut: I agree with you 100 percent people have to get models on those tables to build interest in our small section of the hobby. Put it out there because you like your stuff and want others to get interested.


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## Shaw (Jan 9, 2005)

First, I didn't mean to monopolize this thread, I was just sharing my experiences. I enjoy sharing my work with others, but it is always more rewarding to share it with those who understand what it was that I was aiming for. And because the 33 inch Enterprise isn't something a lot of people know (or care) about, it is better to share what I do online (though it was fun to finally show someone one of my models in person).

I'll try to relate a lot of what happen that day, and maybe that'll answer many of the questions that have come up.

Shortly after I had set up the model, one of the judges (though not of the SciFi stuff) came over and asked about the model. His first question was if it was one of the 18 inch kits, and I started explaining what it was and what I had done to build it. He offered a few helpful suggestions... adding grid lines, weathering and the rust ring. To be fair, there was a 1/1000 TOS Enterprise sitting on the table with all of those things, so I imagine that was where he most likely got those ideas from. At that point I showed him the booklet of reference information and photos I had put together, which changed his views on the model significantly. In fact he took the time to make sure that the booklet was opened to the reference photos section, and I saw him return to the table a number of times throughout the day to make sure that they were showing after people had set the booklet down closed after reading it.

Here is a quick look at the materials I brought and the model before I packaged it up for transport...








And this is a PDF version of the booklet I had next to the model...


_33 inch model write-up_ (PDF, 1.6 MB)​
I had considered (but opted against) showing comparison shots like these (here, here, here, and here). But in the end I wanted the reference materials to only have shots of the original model in them.

So, at the end of the day that same judge came over and asked how I did... and I told him I didn't even place. He said that he didn't think that the other judges knew that it wasn't a kit build and that might have been the problem. I told him how I had documented the build online, including how I started with just a foamcore board shape and hand sculpted the surface onto that, and he said that those photos of the build process next to the model might have been better than the reference materials in the eyes of the judges.





CLBrown said:


> But I might want to show off my work to my peers, if I'm proud of what I've done. That's the only reason I'd ever do that. And screw the silly ribbon!:dude:


And while I was disappointed that I didn't win anything, I was also disappointed that I only got to share the model with a few people who appreciated what it was. I had wanted to show the model to Don Matthys, but he ended up not coming because of car problems. So the negatives (mostly the constant worrying about the model's well being) out weighed the positives (getting to share it in person with a few people I really wanted to see it and who knew what they were looking at).

And it wasn't the best SciFi showcase either. I think that the people who aren't Trek fans but know that there were multiple models of (say) the Millennium Falcon would have appreciated (and understood) why the model was different than a replica of the 11 foot Enterprise. But the show wasn't really geared for those type of people.




USS Atlantis said:


> You notice what I won with my mini-Romulan?
> 
> Zip, zilch, nada
> 
> Probably cause it was stuck in the shadow of your excellent build


As much as it bothered me to see my model pushed around, it bothered me even more to see yours pushed around (and even knocked over a few times). Maybe I'm a little sensitive about models in general because I build so few and spend a ton of time on them, but I didn't understand why modelers were as careless with other people's workmanship. Models (to me) are bits of the builders on display and all should be treated with care.



USS Atlantis said:


> BTW: You coming back to the Monday meeting anytime soon?
> Next week, the 13th is the next one


I had hoped to this month (I got a job at a school in the evenings, and hoped to have more time off during the summer), but I'm filling in for my supervisor this month (she is getting married).

Maybe next month.


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## nautilusnut (Jul 9, 2008)

Well that sort of build would have certainly been awarded in any of the contests I've been in. What's more, in the contests I've seen a model is rarely touched. The judges have small penlights and even mirrors to inspect undersides, etc. I'll need to re-read this thread and see what contest you were at- certainly not run well. I've never seen a model knocked over and rarely touched in our contests. We have signs asking the crowds to only "touch with their eyes." During judging only the judges are allowed on the floor. We always considered extra documentation and even gave points for building a difficult kit. (an ill-fitting dog)

I do hope you will continue to display- your work deserves an audience.


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## WarpCore Breach (Apr 27, 2005)

Wow, very interesting info, Shaw!

With the additional info you've provided, you have pretty much proven that the so-called judges at this contest were either incompetent and/or utterly biased against anything _Trek_. Judges are still only human, with their flaws but this really doesn't excuse their total dismissal of your model.

I've competed in the same contest Madcap refers to and it has been a frustrating experience over the years. I've seen clean builds of many models being overlooked for models that made me think "WTF?!?" As an example, some years ago someone brought a model that was literally a collection of spare parts. I have no idea what it was supposed to be, other than it was reminiscent of something _Battlestar Galactica_ inspired. I was able to identify many of the parts, including an R2D2 body half that formed the central body. What was it supposed to be? I have no idea; there was little information provided on the sheet provided. I have to give kudos to the builder for his creativity. However, strictly IMO, it was NOT a contest quality model. Everything looked liked it was stuck together with blobs of hot glue and the entire model was painted in a gawd-awful paint that must have been applied with an old gummed up housepainting brush. I mentally nicknamed it "Battleturd" - I think it looked terrible. I wasn't on the judging team that year so later, I checked out the table... IT HAD WON. 

I cannot prove bias for the judges. But my experience there over the years really comes down to 2 things: _Star Wars_ models win consistently, regardless of my standards of model building. (I've downloaded the IPMS guidelines for judging models and tried to use those guidelines) and secondly, _Trek_ models rarely get serious consideration. 

Like Madcap, I have worked hard to eliminate seams, pay attention to details, paint, decals and overall finish. And none of that seems to matter. Inasmuch as his models this year were very good, his 18" ships - again, strictly IMO - didn't surpass the quality of the models that did win. Sorry, Trev...! I was thrilled to see your models in person and able to really look at them, but I just don't feel they were the same quality that your other winning models displayed.

I just find it frustrating that _Star Wars_ models ALWAYS ALWAYS win, no matter what. Like other people have said, each show is different and the judging standards will vary.

But I'm going to keep trying. I have some ideas and parts I want to try out. I love the 18" kit and the challenges it poses. The next WCR contest is now in 2 years so I'll have the time to refine my work and see if I can make a really nice model that will warrant a look during judging.


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## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

WarpCore Breach said:


> I've seen clean builds of many models being overlooked for models that made me think "WTF?!?" As an example, some years ago someone brought a model that was literally a collection of spare parts. I have no idea what it was supposed to be, other than it was reminiscent of something _Battlestar Galactica_ inspired.


Yeah, it's my impression this sort of thing happens fairly often. I think some judges see a "clean" build and assume (consciously or sub-conciously) that the modeler must have been too lazy or inexperienced to apply weathering.



I have nothing against an artfully weathered model, but in my experience the un-weathered "showroom finish" is far more challenging to achieve because there is so little (if any) margin for error. Heavily weathered subjects offer the builder many opportunities to hide his mistakes; not so with the "clean" builds (just ask the guys who model scale autos). 

A year or so ago I entered the two models shown below in a local contest...

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=246913&page=16

http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=257471&page=2

The fact that neither model placed was not really an issue; as I've said before, I don't enter contests for the awards. Still, if I have to lose I would just as soon it not be to a heavily weathered kit-bash the builder of which admitted to having thrown together over the course of a single weekend. Mind you, it was a well executed kit-bash, but in terms of "margin for error" there was hardly anything but.

Didn't help that the builder in question is a friend of mine and one of the nicest guys you could ever meet. And it _certainl_y didn't help that many of the judges that day belonged to the same local model club as my friend.



I realize that to some this may sound like sour grapes, but that's honestly not where I'm coming from. My point is that there are good judges and bad judges, and depending on the contest you may wind up with the latter. Because I enjoy the social aspect of entering models into competition those are odds I can live with.

Irrespective of the gross injustices I've suffered at the hands of ignorant judges (), I want to reiterate the positive comments made re: the IPMS. Having participated (and occasionally won) in some of those contests I've found the judging to be consistently fair and even-handed.

One word of caution though: If you _should_ decide to enter your model into an IMPS competition be sure to remove the clear acrylic case before judging...










The fact that I stupidly failed to do so in the above instance cost me the Gold award at an IMPS show a few years back. I actually felt sorry for the judge who broke the news to me; the poor guy was more upset than I was.


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## CLBrown (Sep 8, 2010)

Carson Dyle said:


> One word of caution though: If you _should_ decide to enter your model into an IMPS competition be sure to remove the clear acrylic case before judging...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hummphhhh...

Is that actually a stated part of the rules? Or is it just someting "unofficial and understood?"

I'd think that as long as they can see it, clearly, that should be sufficient. I don't want everone running their grubby mits all over my stuff... having to wash off mustard stains and God knows what other fluids from the surface of my pristine build-up...


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## Carson Dyle (May 7, 2003)

CLBrown said:


> Is that actually a stated part of the rules? Or is it just someting "unofficial and understood?"


Dem's da rules, or so I was told.


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## Storvick (Jan 21, 2003)

guess differetn IMPS clubs have different rules about clear cases.. at the contests I go to I see a lot of models in clear cases that win. (most are old sailing ships and sub models though) The only thing I hate about the IMPS contests (other then the bias of Star Trek models) is I see people when an award and then the nxt year they enter the same model in again and win again.


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## BolianAdmiral (Feb 24, 2009)

WarpCore Breach said:


> I just find it frustrating that _Star Wars_ models ALWAYS ALWAYS win, no matter what.


That's because the Star Wars universe has utterly ridiculous weathering on the ships, like every space vessel in the galaxy has just run a trans-African road rally.  And of course, the SW fans take it to even more ridiculous levels with their models, which sadly, is all judges seem to want to see, from what I'm hearing.

Sadly, those types of models win out over faithful, detailed, and clean examples of TOS or other Trek ships, and also because many people are too stupid to realize there are no duststorms, mudpits, rain, or any other weather in outer space.


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## CLBrown (Sep 8, 2010)

BolianAdmiral said:


> That's because the Star Wars universe has utterly ridiculous weathering on the ships, like every space vessel in the galaxy has just run a trans-African road rally.  And of course, the SW fans take it to even more ridiculous levels with their models, which sadly, is all judges seem to want to see, from what I'm hearing.
> 
> Sadly, those types of models win out over faithful, detailed, and clean examples of TOS or other Trek ships, and also because many people are too stupid to realize there are no duststorms, mudpits, rain, or any other weather in outer space.


Well, there are giant slugs... maybe all that "weathering" comes from being chewed on by those? :freak:


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## BolianAdmiral (Feb 24, 2009)

^

LOL... ok, good point.


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## machgo (Feb 10, 2010)

Carson, you got a lot of guts taking something as beautiful as that Proteus on a trip, and risking breaking it! As for me, I don't think I would move it out of my house! And I would never, never, never leave it without an enclosure. I'd never let it out of my sight for 2 seconds!!!

I guess you can tell I don't enter contests!


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## MadCap Romanian (Oct 29, 2005)

BollianAdmiral said:


> because many people are too stupid to realize there are no duststorms, mudpits, rain, or any other weather in outer space.


Yeah...but then again, the Star Wars ships usually LAND on other planets. The only ones I can think of that wouldn't are the REALLY big ships, including The Death Star. And because the Star Wars ships land on planets, you can win an award making a model of Luke's X-Wing in Yoda's bog. 

What's wrong with my ships WCB? 

Actually, I think it's because I'm one of the few TOS Constitution Class builders that paint their models using Gloss Light Grey paint. I think people can't handle it!  But I agree with Harley Earl (Former Head of GM Car Design in the 1950's) who had the philosophy of making a lot of rounded shapes on cars and knew that the shape would lead to long light reflections. Apply gloss paint to an enterprise kit and this happens naturally!

Actually, I wonder what the effect would be if I clear coated the kit and then buffed the paint out to a mirror finish as if it was a model car?


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## CLBrown (Sep 8, 2010)

MadCap Romanian said:


> Yeah...but then again, the Star Wars ships usually LAND on other planets. The only ones I can think of that wouldn't are the REALLY big ships, including The Death Star. And because the Star Wars ships land on planets, you can win an award making a model of Luke's X-Wing in Yoda's bog.
> 
> What's wrong with my ships WCB?
> 
> ...


Well, it would look pretty much like this... 










which will give fans migraines, I think!


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## WarpCore Breach (Apr 27, 2005)

MadCap Romanian said:


> Yeah...but then again, the Star Wars ships usually LAND on other planets. The only ones I can think of that wouldn't are the REALLY big ships, including The Death Star. And because the Star Wars ships land on planets, you can win an award making a model of Luke's X-Wing in Yoda's bog.
> 
> What's wrong with my ships WCB?
> 
> ...


Well, there's nothing wrong with your ships per se; it's more what can we do to make it a more competitive contender.

From my inspection of your _Constitution_, there were a few things that struck me. First, the dorsal/saucer connection with that odd gap (why did AMT put that in there???) needs to be filled. It struck me that you didn't completely fill that in. After that, I think the hull lettering was too oversized for the model and I felt - IMO- that it did detract a little.

I don't think your colour choice was bad. It's true that the exact colour is tough to determine but it's also a personal interpretation. The glossy finish probably also detracted; at the model's scale, gloss should be virtually non-existent.

So, what can we do to make the model more noteworthy? I honestly believe that a total or near-total OOB build won't do it. It's no secret that the 18" is not that accurate, but even that shouldn't cause judges (from the personal observations stated by several people here, including myself) to give our models a casual dismissive glance before moving on to other models. Or at least it sure seems that way! There is still a lot we can do to improve the looks of our models and for me that means additional attention to the details that already exist on the model.

Saucer: If you have one of the older releases, get rid of that grid!! The Bridge and B/C decks are annoying. Both are too squared off in their shapes. The Bridge has the turbolift shaft way too far away from it, and the B/C deck is too large as well as the wrong shape. The "linear accelerator" that is on top and front of the impulse engines cuts off too sharply at it's leading edge. The saucer edge has a slight angle, but not sharp enough. On the underside, the "lip" where it starts to go concave is too sharp. Those dimples have to go! The double raised lines should be grooved instead. The impulse engines seem to be okay but they sit on the hull too far down; that at least is a simple fix. The only clear pieces in the kit are the saucer top and bottom domes. Both have problems in that the top dome is too small and flat. The bottom dome doesn't represent the lower sensor array correctly.

Secondary Hull: first up is that annoying dip on the top leading edge of the dorsal. It's totally unnecessary and needs to be filled in. The front hull cap is missing an extended ring. The deflector dish is a piece of crap; AMT could have done much better. The little light dome on the top rear of the secondary hull is another annoying omission.

Engines: The engines don't sit on the pylons at the right place. No surprise there; clearly a parts shortcut to reduce the parts count so the engines and pylons could be molded in halves. The power shields should be 3 separate pieces instead of the one curved piece it is in the kit. The rear intercoolers are missing a small tab on their fronts. The rear side vents should have been molded as separate pieces instead and they have obvious raised areas that shouldn't be there. The rear engine caps do have the production version balls, but they are more like flat domes and aren't as pronounced as they should be. Finally, the reactor loops and intercoolers have some rather heavy ejector pin marks.

Overall: the saucer is slightly too small in diameter, the secondary hull has some shape issues and is a bit too short and the engines I think are more or less the correct length and diameter, but the taper is very small and should be a little more obvious.

With all of that, you might think the whole model is such a mess, it can't be salvaged into a decent representation. It can, of course... but it will take work. This is where we "step up our game"! LOL! We have aftermarket options to fix most of the problems. And my observations are not definitive; these are just the ones I can think of at the moment. I haven't even covered the decals (especially earlier releases) but that's a problem for later.


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## MadCap Romanian (Oct 29, 2005)

Taking this as a non-attack on my model (I'm joking here!)...I will point out that WCB is right in pointing out the kit's "Workable" flaws. 

However, I did make my ship to match the Franz Joseph blueprints...and the "Wrong Shape" B/C deck as well as the top grid lines are suppose to be there...according to ol' FJ. 

If you guys want to see the U.S.S. Constitution as I built it, have a look here : (Keep hitting "Next" to follow along!)

http://public.fotki.com/ursulescu/ursulescus_star/work-in-progress-st/franz-josephs-u-s-s.html

And here's a few finished shots of the ship itself :


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## MadCap Romanian (Oct 29, 2005)

...and here's a couple of other starship "Goodies" to amuse you all!

















U.S.S. EXCALIBUR (Also in the contest)
























U.S.S. INTREPID (With a higher Bridge like in The CAGE Episode)


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## BolianAdmiral (Feb 24, 2009)

MadCap Romanian said:


> Actually, I think it's because I'm one of the few TOS Constitution Class builders that paint their models using Gloss Light Grey paint. I think people can't handle it!


No... IMO, that's not actually what hurts your U.S.S. Constitution model. Your model itself is pretty darn good, and even the paint isn't that bad... what destroys it is the SIZE of the font you used for the hull markings.

Yes, I know you are using the Franz Joseph font, and that's fine if that's what you want to do... but the size of the font is WAY too large for the model, and frankly takes up too much space on the hull. It's not so bad on the warp nacelles, but on the saucer section... yeah... it looks bad, lol.

I think a font size a couple points smaller could really help. Please do not think I am trying to be unkind, because I'm not... I'm just saying what I think is the weak point with the model. As with everything, it's my own opinion, so take it as such.


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## James Tiberius (Oct 23, 2007)

A better question would be: Does the Revellogram Galactica ever win at model contests?


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## MadCap Romanian (Oct 29, 2005)

It's big like that so the Klingons know who's killing them!


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## nautilusnut (Jul 9, 2008)

WOW! What a build of the PROTEOUS! I am humbled sir!



> I have nothing against an artfully weathered model, but in my experience the un-weathered "showroom finish" is far more challenging to achieve because there is so little (if any) margin for error. Heavily weathered subjects offer the builder many opportunities to hide his mistakes; not so with the "clean" builds (just ask the guys who model scale autos).


You are so right- a clean, shiny build shows all the mistakes. 

The "no case" rule puzzles me. First off, in any contest I was ever in, if there was a problem such as this, someone got on the PA system and asked for the builder to remove it. I've also seen kits win with display cases. (at an IPMS event)

As for the poster saying that he'd seen models entered in more than one contest. Bring that to the judges attention BEFORE the kits are judged.
Any kit that has won in any IPMS contest is supposed to be retired and not entered again. I've seen a guy enter the same figures repeatedly and finally spoke to a judge and had him disqualified.


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## BolianAdmiral (Feb 24, 2009)

nautilusnut said:


> Any kit that has won in any IPMS contest is supposed to be retired and not entered again.


Wow. What an incredibly stupid and retarded rule. That's basically like saying if some guy has a gorgeous '53 Corvette that he takes to a car show, that if his car wins best of show one year, that he can never again enter it in a following year's competition... or that he can't compete for both the best '53 as well as best-in-show.

IMO, that's just absurdly lame and ridiculous. I have to say, the more I read about contests in this thread, the less and less I would ever even want to visit one, let alone participate or compete in one.


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## nautilusnut (Jul 9, 2008)

> Wow. What an incredibly stupid and retarded rule. That's basically like saying if some guy has a gorgeous '53 Corvette that he takes to a car show, that if his car wins best of show one year, that he can never again enter it in a following year's competition... or that he can't compete for both the best '53 as well as best-in-show.


you make a valid point. I can only assume it's to encourage NEW items to show up. As I mentioned earlier, the same guy keeps showing up show after show with the same 4 kits. We figured he looked to see where the competition is, and if it's light to none, he brings the kits in!


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## nautilusnut (Jul 9, 2008)

> I have to say, the more I read about contests in this thread, the less and less I would ever even want to visit one, let alone participate or compete in one.
> Reply With Quote


Actually, I used to feel much the same. HOWEVER- modeling is pretty much a singular hobby. Model shows let you meet other modelers, and believe me, there are plenty that will appreciate your build and subject. It's a great place to pick up modeling bargains- you'll find items at rock-bottom prices! I have enjoyed meeting others fact to face, and made more than a few friends. I encourage everyone to try a model contest. Winning is really not the issue- there's always a top dawg in every bunch and if you go expecting to win you'll probably be hurt. But I think you'll gain more than you lose and have a good time in spite of it. I do build for myself, and some kits I spend more time and effort on than others. With each build my skills improve somewhat. Several times I've grabbed a kit from my stash of builds as I went out the door- trying to keep the show tables from looking empty. Surprisingly, I've often won with these kits- not the one I was counting on to, "Blow their minds." Just a pleasant surprise. I now have a circle of local friends I would not have met otherwise and we meet once a month to talk models and enjoy our collections


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## CLBrown (Sep 8, 2010)

BolianAdmiral said:


> Wow. What an incredibly stupid and retarded rule. That's basically like saying if some guy has a gorgeous '53 Corvette that he takes to a car show, that if his car wins best of show one year, that he can never again enter it in a following year's competition... or that he can't compete for both the best '53 as well as best-in-show.
> 
> IMO, that's just absurdly lame and ridiculous. I have to say, the more I read about contests in this thread, the less and less I would ever even want to visit one, let alone participate or compete in one.


I disagree.

Think of the Olympics. There's no rule to prevent the same person from competing year, after year, after year. But you can't just "re-use" the same distance of last year's long-jump... you have to make a NEW jump in each new competition. Otherwise, we'd still have Mark Spitz "winning" new Olympic swimming medals today, based on his old results, even though the guy is now starting to do AARP commercials!

If someone comes up with a masterpiece, and wins... they've won. Period. And if someone builds up a piece of crap and loses... they've lost. If you're COMPETING, you should all be competing with something built for that contest. And that way, everyone is competing on an even footing.

Imagine if the Mona Lisa got entered in every art contest ever since it was painted!

This isn't to say that you shouldn't be permitted to SHOW your work... only not to compete with the same (unmodified) piece more than once.


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## USS Atlantis (Feb 23, 2008)

I agree totally, CL

It's kinda like an author winning a Pulitzer - they can't win again for the same work - even if it's re-published in a different edition - it's still the same work

Once you've won a show with the model - what's left besides start a new model and see if that one can win as well - using a model that's already won seems a cheat - you KNOW it's good, the judges said so - so why try again when this one CAN win and has

Just my 2cr


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## Jafo (Apr 22, 2005)

"Any kit that has won in any IPMS contest is supposed to be retired and not entered again" WRONG!!!!! better read up on the rules before making a blanket statement like that. any model that has PLACED ( ie: 1st, 2nd or 3rd) in a IPMS National Contest( the big one they have once a year) should not be entered in any ipms contest. So, you may campaign the model in different contests. Would be kinda hard to build a model for every contest eh?


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## BolianAdmiral (Feb 24, 2009)

CLBrown said:


> I disagree.
> 
> Think of the Olympics. There's no rule to prevent the same person from competing year, after year, after year. But you can't just "re-use" the same distance of last year's long-jump... you have to make a NEW jump in each new competition. Otherwise, we'd still have Mark Spitz "winning" new Olympic swimming medals today, based on his old results, even though the guy is now starting to do AARP commercials!
> 
> ...


The problem with the Olympic analogy is that it still isn't valid... yes, the athlete may make a longer jump or what have you, but he is still competing for THAT challenge, year after year, for the same team, in the same event.

To require a modeler to "retire" _(whatever the frak they think that means)_ their model after one win is simply beyond ludicrous. That borders on the verge of admitting a model is too good NOT to win, so instead, we'll force a proven winner out of the game!

It also goes against the very conventions of competition... if the same model is good enough to consistently win, and others are not winning, then shouldn't it be the goal of the competitors to improve their work so they CAN win? I mean, sheesh... to literally force winning material out of the game is just arse-backwards retarded.

Then again, from what I've been hearing about judges in this thread, I suppose I shouldn't expect much measure of intelligence when it comes to such matters. I'm sorry, but I disagree with your analysis... I believe my Corvette/car show analogy is apt and valid.


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## Jafo (Apr 22, 2005)

it is part of the rules. it only needs to be off for judgeing. they use mirrors and lights to look at everything. inside underneath you name it.

"I suppose I shouldn't expect much measure of intelligence when it comes to such matters."
What, were you beat up alot as a kid or something? Judgeing is arbitrary at best and maybe you should try it and know more of what your talking about.


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## nautilusnut (Jul 9, 2008)

Jaafo. I stand corrected


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## ClubTepes (Jul 31, 2002)

I've been an IPMS judge for a number of years.
And I judge what I know, sci-fi and fantasy vehicles and figures and Naval ships.
I don't do aircraft, armor or Automobiles because I don't know enough about those subjects to judge them.

The head Judges do attempt to get Judges into each category that have a knowledge of that category.

And as far as I know, there are no bias again certain subjects. The judging is based solely on the work presented.

Long ago, I entered a Klingon Bird of Prey in some contests. The paint job was fantastic ( I still think its a great paint job. - one of my best) but it never won.
Why!? So I asked some friends who'd give me an honest answer.
Seams and ejector pin marks. Not a big deal in my mind because I love to paint and hate putty, but it opened my eyes to what others are looking at.

Any model, any subject can win.

Ultimately it comes down to fit, finish paint.


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## Disco58 (Apr 10, 2011)

BolianAdmiral said:


> ^
> 
> Yeah, the real culprit really is the stupidness of the judges... I don't understand why they can't have different panels of judges for the various categories... have judges that are versed and familiar with the sci-fi genre to judge that category, and have judges who know all about cars to judge that category, and so on... but don't have some judge who doesn't know diddly-squat about sci-fi, let alone have the ability to appreciate it, preside over the judgment of a sci-fi piece. Granted not everyone's work is award-material, but if a judge has to ask "What's that", like in a post previous, that's not good.


I make no claims to be an expert at anything, well, ok, screwing shi...uh, stuff up, but that doesn't count. I've judged at local and regional IPMS shows, and we've used different logic in picking judges for category 'X'. We have always tried to have a mix of people who a.) know the subjects, and b.) have no clue. The ones who know the subject can judge accuracy/technical aspects. The one who has no clue about the subject is totally objective, and looks at craftsmanship only. Points are given, then notes are compared and points are averaged, and if that average warrants an award then one is given. I don't understand how a judge could ask, "What is that"? when the model should be sitting on its entry form/description sheet. I would much rather judge subjects for which I have no technical knowledge (like sci-fi). I can whip through a model fairly quickly and move on. One thing I do avoid is judging a model from someone I know. If I recognize a model I'll ask another judge to step in for that particular piece. I'll take a look at it afterwards, but my opinion won't count.


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## Dave P (Jan 5, 2005)

Some of you guys have a pretty warped idea about what goes on at contests. And unless you get in there and do some judging yourself, all you have is speculation and conjecture. And, it's a great way to learn what makes or breaks a model. My first time judging was at an IPMS National 10 years ago. When you sign up as a first-time judge they assign you to a team to observe and learn. You can voice an opinion, but you don't get a vote. After my group was done I wandered over to the table where I had a model I was very proud of entered. I said nothing, just listened. And they picked it apart. Rather than be upset (it had previously done well at other shows and won gold at Wonderfest), I learned from it. They were right.

I have judged at all levels of IPMS ever since, and also judge at Wonderfest. I'm also head judge at our local show. Our judges are given very specific, consistent guidelines to follow. Our head category judges know their stuff. This kind of time and attention leads to a good show that is fair for all and leaves the participants wanting to come back the following year. And if a model doesn't win, there is a reason for it. The judges saw something that you either didn't see or didn't think was important. Being an attendee walking the room is very different from studying every inch of a model for as long as it takes. I can't tell you how many times I've seen models I thought were cool only to be shocked and disappointed when it came time to judge. Same goes for seeing photos posted here vs. seeing it in person.

So when you talking about freaking "them" out with your glossy painted Enterprise, you're generally talking about other sci-fi modelers, who as we all should know are every bit as anal as the rivet counters IPMS members are accused of being.

Now I don't doubt some of the bad experiences that have been mentioned here. That is the fault of the club for putting on a badly run show. Just don't paint all judges with such a broad brush. The vast majority of them are very knowledgeable and dedicated, and agonize over getting it right. Judging teams are supposed to be put together based on their modeling interests and expertise. But, we are human, not robots. Mistakes will happen.

The only time I can see having an armor guy judging sci-fi is if they don't have enough people, or that particular club simply doesn't care. But, the fault lies with that individual or that particular club. Not judges as a whole. That's like saying you had a bad waiter at a restaurant, so all waiters are bad. In 17 years of entering contests my experiences have been nothing but good. 

IPMS clubs are under no real obligation to follow national standards and rules, which is why you may see inconsistencies from show to show. They should, but not all do.

To clear a few things up, you are not required to retire a model after one win. You can compete at the local level as many times as you like, it's just not supposed to be at the same show year after year. Once you win at a regional, that means you are not supposed to take that model back down to the local level again, but it happens. And if you win at a National, that's the end of the line. This is meant to encourage people to enter and not get discouraged because the same thing wins over and over. That is what fosters competition. And trust me, other modelers will complain long and loud if that was allowed to happen.

Cases are allowed at a show, but are supposed to be removed before judging. This is usually announced ahead of time. You cannot adequately judge a model when you can't get as close to it as you can those without cases.

Winning or not winning because of subject matter is crazy. If this happens you're entering in the wrong show. I have never seen anyone pass over a model because it was Star Trek. I have seen plenty of Star Trek models passed over because they were badly built.

Models are not to be picked up. Period. The only time they are moved is to make more room on a table or bring them from the back to the front for judging. I never lift it off the table unless I absolutely have to. If it's small enough I usually use the entry form to slide it if possible. And I always treat it as if it were my own.

Unfortunately, nepotism and snobbery do exist. There's nothing you can do about it but build the best model you can build and let the chips fall where they may. There will always be those who consider sci-fi models toys. Can't do anything about it. My own theory is that it also has to do with quality. When I first started competing locally 8 out of 10 sci-fi models looked like they were built and painted by children. A few people rolled their eyes at me when I first joined our club. Then I showed them my work and proved that I take it every bit as seriously as those who build tanks or planes. Well built models will get respect no matter what the subject is.

Fortunately, I have seen the quality of what we build steadily rise over the years. At a national several years ago a friend and staunch armor builder lobbied for a sci-fi model to win the Judge's Grand Award. It did, and it deserved it. And you're talking armor, ship, aircraft, figure and auto judges that voted for it.

As others have said, these shows are about sharing your work, seeing what others are doing, seeing old friends and making new ones. If you are there for any other reason, you are missing the point.

As Harlan Ellison once said, "You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your _informed_ opinion."


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## nautilusnut (Jul 9, 2008)

Well said sir!:thumbsup:


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## Trekkriffic (Mar 20, 2007)

nautilusnut said:


> Well said sir!:thumbsup:


Ditto! :thumbsup:


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## scottnkat (May 11, 2006)

thanks, Dave. that was well said.:thumbsup:


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## Toecutter (Sep 3, 2006)

On a similar note, several years ago I fulfilled a childhood dream and built a Boba Fett replica armor suit, complete to the last detail and painted in the Jedi color scheme. We went out for the festivities and on my pals' prodding I entered the costume contest. 
I lost to a frat boy who had bought an off-the-shelf Reno 911 costume the same day. When he was announced the winner, the audience gasped. The judge later told me he really didn't know what I was (tho I did announce who I was...he thought I was a Ghostbuster!) and he thought Reno 911 was the funniest thing ever.
The lesson: sometimes no matter how awesome something is, somebody doesn't care...and that somebody is in charge.


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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

More succinct lesson: Know your audience.


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## Disco58 (Apr 10, 2011)

Toecutter said:


> On a similar note, several years ago I fulfilled a childhood dream and built a Boba Fett replica armor suit, complete to the last detail and painted in the Jedi color scheme. We went out for the festivities and on my pals' prodding I entered the costume contest.
> I lost to a frat boy who had bought an off-the-shelf Reno 911 costume the same day. When he was announced the winner, the audience gasped. The judge later told me he really didn't know what I was (tho I did announce who I was...he thought I was a Ghostbuster!) and he thought Reno 911 was the funniest thing ever.
> The lesson: sometimes no matter how awesome something is, somebody doesn't care...and that somebody is in charge.


The opposite is true too I suppose; I would have voted for you, knowing what BF should like like, and not having a clue who/what Reno 911 was all about.


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## AJ-1701 (May 10, 2008)

I understand you pain MadCap Romanian and I'm sorry you or Shaw didn't win a place. Excellent job on the 33 inch TOS 'E' as well Shaw

I've yet to do and enter an 18 inch TOS 'E' in the annual local comp here. last year I entered my 1/350 refit and pulled up a 3rd. When this was announced I dissapointingly moaned about just getting a bronze. The young guy next to me simply replied "well at least you got a medal." *Talk about a humilty check!!* My wife to this day still thinks it should have got gold... but after asking questions and talking with other modelers there I got a better undersatanding for what judges look for and to be honest a bronze is where it stood be in there eyes. (seams have always been a nemisis of mine)... In the end though all my entries won me the encouragement award at the show. Which I was asured by a judge and another modeler who haunts HT as well that they, the judges, see something that can grow in my work also this was only the second ever comp I had entered. So twice on the same day I felt the humility slap.  In the end what to me was the most rewarding was, a: the local star trek club having invited me to exhibit my various kits, b: several hundreds of people looking pointing and commenting and c: many cameras capturing pics of my stuff.

But that dosen't mean I don't want a silver or gold with one of my entries this year :tongue:

Cheers,

Alec.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

AJ-1701 said:


> But that dosen't mean I don't want a silver or gold with one of my entries this year :tongue:


*SCOTTY:* _*"My sister's youngest, Admiral. Crazy to get to space!"*_

:wave:


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## Captain April (May 1, 2004)

Sometimes, it's all luck of the draw. There are times I've entered models I slaved over and got nothin', while other years I entered something I just threw together on a lark, just to show it off to folks, and wound up getting the top prize.

A lot of it depends on if the guy with the six-foot long Galactica model shows up or not.


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