# Jupiter 2 Interior



## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

Please use the other thread, to specify your preference for scale.

There seems to be consensus on the following points:

-The hull profile should be faithful to the hero,

-There should be upper deck interior detailing, with an optional scrim,

-The landing gear should be correct, and functional- including proper gear well detail.

I want to focus here on the flight deck scaling and detailing. As has been pointed out, there are other ways to reconcile the interior with a correct hull profile. Ron Gross wanted the lower deck viewport to "make sense", i.e., place the level of the upper deck high enough, to suggest a lower level could actually fit. He did not intend to make a lower level, though.

The actual interior/exterior set seen on the show does NOT allow for a lower deck, because the upper deck is located well below where the upper and lower hulls meet. If there were a lower viewport on that set, when it was open, you'd see the edge of the upper deck, and the Robinson's feet!

(For those who would like a straight-hulled Jupiter 2, such as the interior/exterior set, or the mock-up, I've tried to show that such a hull can be made from scratch so easily, that such a molded hull would be a real waste. I'm prepared to do even more, if necessary, to demonstrate that.)

If one were to place their upper deck(in a hero-shaped hull) at the same level as the interior/exterior set, clearly a larger scale interior could be used. If someone asked "where's the lower deck supposed to fit?", one could answer "that's the way the set was built." 

When I get a chance, I'll work out the diameter such an option would make the hull. I'd expect it to be somewhat larger than 48', but well under 60'.


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

GEAR WELL DETAIL? You going with the hero or the full size set version?


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## Dar (Apr 20, 2007)

I still do not think theres anything wrong with having another J2 model that incorporates a rescaled interior. I think theres enough room for both a spx model and a conceptual model. The show was inconsistant in the sets and different models, so a model can incorporate bits of all of them. It only needs to ressemble the interior and have an accurate hullprofile. It can be done. I do not know why so many are against it. I would just like a model that works within the confines of the shows concept.


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

Lets also ask for CLEAR INTERIOR PARTS for lighting. ESPECIALLY the light panels in the bulkheads. 

The Hero had dissimilar sides in the gear wells. I think I have picture of the Hero listed in my foto-albumm so you can see both sides. Maybe they can provide BOTH types. The hero didn't have anything to block the light from shining down the stairs on the gear.

If they decide to do it as a 60 foot hull, and just have more area in back of the equipment racks, and make the floor above the crease, and the figures in scale with that hull. 


If anybody thinks your Jupiter 2 is a little big, tell them it's because they used a "Fish-eye" lens when they were shooting the ship from outside. 

I figure I'd do My Jupiter 2 as the Hero anyway. I could then sell the parts.


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## Dar (Apr 20, 2007)

Y3a said:


> Lets also ask for CLEAR INTERIOR PARTS for lighting. ESPECIALLY the light panels in the bulkheads.
> 
> The Hero had dissimilar sides in the gear wells. I think I have picture of the Hero listed in my foto-albumm so you can see both sides. Maybe they can provide BOTH types. The hero didn't have anything to block the light from shining down the stairs on the gear.
> 
> ...



Well thats what I was thinking. Move the floor line up a bit have both levels rescaled to fit that and any extra space behind the walls used as storage space as you have said. There could be parts to incorporate this type of interior. The sidewalls and bulkheads in the cockpit area may have to be extended a bit. Also the floor near the door may have to have a downward slope. This would have to be done so the exterior door would meet the floor more accurately. The kit could also include the scrimn and alternate pieces for the cockpit sidewalls and bulkheads that ressemble those in the spx model, for those who want to make an SPX model. The cockpit controls would be at the right scale already. I would buy your extra interior parts if you dont want them.:thumbsup:


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

toyroy said:


> Please use the other thread, to specify your preference for scale.
> 
> There seems to be consensus on the following points:
> 
> ...


Sounds good.
Aside from Y3A, has anybody actually said they'd like to have that silly scrim?


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

Silly Scrim? Since when is Accurate silly? 

Your arguments against the scrim also puts you in the "Kludge Jupiter 2" crowd. Kludges have already been done. 

Accuracy isn't an issue as the hero has no interior, and the set-which DOES HAVE THE INTERIOR is flat sided. You don't have to worry about an accurate Jupiter 2, because thats NOT what YOU WANT.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

And you want WAY more than anyone else cares about (Irwin Allen included), and WAY more than would make a good mass-market model kit. It's gotta appeal to everybody, not just to the one or two guys in the world who know every intimate detail.

Define the one and only "accurate Jupiter 2" please. Just one. it was, after all, supposed to be just one ship. If someone wants a model of "the spaceship Jupiter 2", what would it look like?

And how is the scrim "accurate," when no such thing appeared during interior shots of the ship (even immediately after we saw it from the outside!), and it was only ever meant to be a representative "interior" for one shot so they didn't have to build a whole interior for the landing model? It was a cheat, a shortcut, like a painted backdrop, not a "real" part of the interior.


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Y3a said:


> Your arguments against the scrim also puts you in the "Kludge Jupiter 2" crowd. Kludges have already been done.


And I'm afraid your obsession puts you in the "rivet counter" crowd. Ya know, those guys at model clubs who suck all the _fun _out of the hobby by going out of their way to point out every imperfection on the model you were so proud of a few minutes before.

Ya really aughtta lighten up and realize this is supposed to be a fun hobby.


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## Dave Metzner (Jan 1, 1970)

Gentlemen:
Don't let your dissagreements over a model that is on your personal want lists decend into name calling etc.
I don't want to pull my moderator hat out of my bottom desk drawer. 
I will not put up with bad behavior here.

Thank you.
Dave


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

John P said:


> And you want WAY more than anyone else cares about (Irwin Allen included), and WAY more than would make a good mass-market model kit. It's gotta appeal to everybody, not just to the one or two guys in the world who know every intimate detail.
> 
> Define the one and only "accurate Jupiter 2" please. Just one. it was, after all, supposed to be just one ship. If someone wants a model of "the spaceship Jupiter 2", what would it look like?
> 
> And how is the scrim "accurate," when no such thing appeared during interior shots of the ship (even immediately after we saw it from the outside!), and it was only ever meant to be a representative "interior" for one shot so they didn't have to build a whole interior for the landing model? It was a cheat, a shortcut, like a painted backdrop, not a "real" part of the interior.





John P said:


> And I'm afraid your obsession puts you in the "rivet counter" crowd. Ya know, those guys at model clubs who suck all the _fun _out of the hobby by going out of their way to point out every imperfection on the model you were so proud of a few minutes before.
> 
> Ya really aughtta lighten up and realize this is supposed to be a fun hobby.


Y3a just wants a scrim, which is nothing more than a printed card or piece of plastic. That's LESS than you want. He's not asking to deny anyone their full interior. That's gotta cost less than multiple Seaview noses. Everyone's happy! 

There _are_ going to be people who care more about this model than the average model builder. If that makes us rivet counters, well, if the model satisfies us, usually everyone is satisfied. :thumbsup:


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

As far as the interior, didn't I just suggest that the walls and panels be in clear plastic?

I want a model of the SPFX model in 1/2 scale or so. (2 feet) 

18" is OK too. 

For the model to be displayed with gear down , the larger size, while subtle is quite impressive. In fabricating my working set of landing gear on the Lunar models I ran into the same issues they must have had making the original. I found that the footpad CANNOT swivel. It can pivot back n forth but it has to stay aligned to the gear well so when retracting, you don't snag the footpad on the well walls. The torque involved on the mechanics for the gear leg is very great. snagging the footpad could ruin the whole model!! 

It is more important to scale the interior at 60 feet diameter to match the size of the figures with the window and all. I don't want the hull re-scaled to 48 feet. 

These things make for a more impressive model.


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

NOTE: The following assumes a *48 foot* hull diameter.

OK, here's my first draft of the hero hull with a full-size interior. I set the hero seamline(the plane where the upper and lower hulls meet) to match that of the interior/exterior set. I figure the ship's seamline is about 22" above the main deck, based on two different interior drawings. Clearly, the landing gear barely fits. 

The scale is 1/70. This drawing is based on those of Ron Gross. Unfortunately, there are many interior dimensions that I don't have, or am not sure of.


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

Here's the interior/exterior set in the same-diameter hero hull, as above, only with the main deck located at the ship's hull seamline:


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## Seaview (Feb 18, 2004)

I'd go with the deck at the seamline; the airlock has its' own upward tilting ramp anyway.
And while the porthole on the hero model is roughly in-line with the guidance control panels where they were located on the set, I could live quite happily with the porthole next to the hatch (which the hero model didn't have either).
I hope that we're looking at a model design which has the potential to be the next big Moebius success story! :thumbsup: :woohoo:


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

I like it better below the seam line to match the set.


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

This is an utterly arbitrary combination- the floor is set exactly halfway between the previous two drawings:


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

PerfesserCoffee said:


> I like it better below the seam line to match the set.


That it does(I think!) What surprises me is the wasted space between the top of the set and the hull. The landing gear should work in this arrangement, but the top of the gear wells will be kinda wierd shaped.

Just FYI: if one were to be sitting on the line marking the top of the fusion core, the head room would be about 2 1/2 feet! :freak:


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

So, why not scale your FIGURES to the size they were in the HERO and then work backwards, assuming the HULL DIAMETER is 60 feet. The cockpit deck was level to the widest point in the hull. The tallest figure(John) would be about 6 feet tall. Don would be sitting at the controls. Maureen and Will are sometimes seen. 

That version will have the correct height of the figures as seen inside the hero.


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

Y3a said:


> So, why not scale your FIGURES to the size they were in the HERO and then work backwards, assuming the HULL DIAMETER is 60 feet. The cockpit deck was level to the widest point in the hull. The tallest figure(John) would be about 6 feet tall. Don would be sitting at the controls. Maureen and Will are sometimes seen.
> 
> That version will have the correct height of the figures as seen inside the hero.


Are you CERTAIN of the original figure heights, and the position of the original cockpit deck?


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Of COURSE he is!


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

First photo – back side of Hero Cockpit w/o Scrim.


The cockpit as seen in “The Derelict”


Inside the Hero – DO YOU THINK the floor is the same height as the widest area on the saucer?


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

Y3a said:


> DO YOU THINK the floor is the same height as the widest area on the saucer?


After processing the photos, I'm inclined to agree about the deck placement.

Using your Derelict pic, I figure the figure closest to the viewport is about 4.5835" tall. It looks like Maureen, who is 5' 6", rendering a scale of 1/14.4. This would make the Jupiter 2 diameter 57' 7.2".

Most variations I've tried give a scale closer to 1/15(implying a 60' ship diameter) than 1/12(48' dia.)

What do your figures show?


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

My figure shows a little paunch around the middle.


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

You're welcome. You give great straight lines, too. :lol:


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

toyroy said:


> After processing the photos, I'm inclined to agree about the deck placement.
> 
> Using your Derelict pic, I figure the figure closest to the viewport is about 4.5835" tall. It looks like Maureen, who is 5' 6", rendering a scale of 1/14.4. This would make the Jupiter 2 diameter 57' 7.2".
> 
> ...


After working the problem, I watched The Derelict again. My first assumptions were wrong; the capture was from the lift-off, not the landing. At lift-off, Judy was standing closest to the position shown. She's 5' 4" tall, and her figure measures about 4.657", giving a scale of 1/13.74, and a ship diameter of approximately 55'. 

I'm including a jpeg of the view rotation, so you can check my analysis. It's been decades since I've done this kind of problem. So, how'd I screw up?


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## TOS Maniac (Jun 26, 2006)

i want a power core with a ghost provided who will shout "how do you know? HOW DO YOU KNOW?" every so often.


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

Well, I screwed up again. Upon another viewing of The Derelict, the figure I've been trying to measure is Penny. From her birthdate, she was 13 in 1965. Who knows how tall her figure was- or whether it was even close?


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## John P (Sep 1, 1999)

Can you scale the ship from the pod-drop sequence? I assume we know the real height of the full-sized pod?


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

Hi John,
The pod was a third-season tack-on, with serious questions regarding it's own fit in the J2. Not exactly what I'm looking for, but thanks for the suggestion.

On the other hand, the scale of the figures made some sense to me, vis-a-vis the scale of the J2 hero. Especially, if they were character-specific. However, at this point I suspect the same figure was used to represent John(6' 3") during landing, and Smith(5' 11") at the later lift-off; so this approach could be unavailing as well.


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## JeffG (May 10, 2004)

You're not honestly trying to figure out real world scales on an Irwin Allen ship are you?


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

Ouch.


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## Y3a (Jan 18, 2001)

I think the ONLY PERSON who could measure the Jupiter 2 correctly world be Dr. Who.


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## Jaruemalak (Jun 12, 2008)

Yeah, I always figured the Jupiter 2 must have had a little TARDIS technology going on inside... especially when you take into account the episode where Will went down into the THIRD DECK, where the engine room was! Back in the 1980's, someone released a set of blueprints that actually included that third deck! Their exterior was modified to include it... and made the Jupiter look more like a cookie jar than a spacecraft.

(Personally, I've always believed that Will's trip into the "third deck" was more of a hallucination than representing reality. God, I hope so, anyway!)


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## Krel (Jun 7, 2000)

The J2 uses the same technology that the ST shuttle craft has that allows six foot plus people to stand erect in an interior that is about five feet tall, and have a back compartment that makes it at least six feet longer than the exterior.

David.


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## WarpCore Breach (Apr 27, 2005)

Unfortunately, any rescaling of the Jupiter 2 to actually accomodate the interiors shown will increase the size of the ship, so much so that the crash landing set would be incredibly small!

Either we make the interior fit into the established set size and eliminate the lower deck (not even considering the alleged 3rd deck!) or we have to make the Jupiter 2 much bigger and basically toss out all of the SFX models and crash site sets!

On my eventual Lunar Models Jupiter 2, it will get its deck built in and that's all that will fit. One of the Polar Lights J2 will get a full interior but the lower deck will be hopelessly out of scale. It's simply something that we have to deal with.


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

You're all missing one important detail: the "ring" that the ship sat on while on the planet was actually where the ship split laterally and opened up on its vertical axis giving room to stand up on the lower decks.


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## bigdaddydaveh (Jul 20, 2007)

Perhaps the engine room was like the 'slide out' on an RV? It only expanded down when you needed to access the room?


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

bigdaddydaveh said:


> Perhaps the engine room was like the 'slide out' on an RV? It only expanded down when you needed to access the room?


I don't remember the exterior FX shots from that episode, but you may very well have something, there. Interesting!


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## bigjimslade (Oct 9, 2005)

JeffG said:


> You're not honestly trying to figure out real world scales on an Irwin Allen ship are you?


I've not seen it in a loooooong time.....but didn't the Seaview have traversing corridors making the interior the size of the Pentagon?


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

bigdaddydaveh said:


> Perhaps the engine room was like the 'slide out' on an RV? It only expanded down when you needed to access the room?



Yeah! That's the ticket!

An expansion joint!


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

WarpCore Breach said:


> Unfortunately, any rescaling of the Jupiter 2 to actually accomodate the interiors shown will increase the size of the ship, so much so that the crash landing set would be incredibly small!...


Again, the "crash landing set" was _never_ more than the upper deck. It fit fine in the simplified hull. It can fit similarly in a hero-shaped hull.



WarpCore Breach said:


> ...Either we make the interior fit into the established set size and eliminate the lower deck...or we have to make the Jupiter 2 much bigger and basically toss out all of the SFX models and crash site sets!...


Irwin Allen DID make that choice. However, I think it _may_ be possible to fit both decks, in consistent scale, in a hero hull- without unacceptably shrinking the interior. The upper deck might need to be set a bit higher than the hull seamline, though.


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## Jaruemalak (Jun 12, 2008)

Well, it IS possible to fit both the upper and lower deck at the same scale in a hero, or any other shaped exterior, but the exterior would be out of scale with the interior.


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## Larva (Jun 8, 2005)

True. The normally 6.5 foot main hatchway become 9 feet high. Not to mention how big the main viewport becomes. The exterior FX shot when the pod is discharged always made the J-2 look to be at least 60 feet in diameter.


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

I'm working on a revised drawing of the hero hull and the interior, this time in 1/48 scale. Just to let you know. So, if you've got some _dimensioned_ Fox studio interior drawings that I don't already have, now would be a good time to post them! :thumbsup:


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## StarshipClass (Aug 13, 2003)

The exterior mock up plans seem to scale out making the saucer about 43 feet in diameter. Does anyone have any info on the actual diameter?


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## Robert Hargrave (Dec 4, 2003)

*Jupiter 2 interior*

When I did my take on the TV version of the Jupiter 2 I used the Polar Lights model and drew up my own set of scale plans making the model into 1 inch = 5 feet, so my hull was 60 feet across. The frist problem I encountered was the ladder and elevatorbetween the upper and lower level did not match up, and I had to move the upper deck walls in this area in a few feet to make them line up. Othe wise the lower deck section would have been sitting on the angled hull not the flat lower deck floor. The biggest flaw in the model that a couple of people did not like was the long table top going from the lower flight deck control station to the lower level forward view port, but to make the interior fit it could not be changed. In this set up the lower deck was just over 6 feet tall, but the upper level was more like 10 to 12 feet tall. The lower deck is almost all scratch built using sheet & strip styrene, the upper level I used most of the supplied wall sections with many modification. On the upper level the only mistake I made was not cutting off the freezing tube platforms and re-aligning them, on the lower level if I could find the key to my TARDIS I'd go back and angle the galley walls that I did not do the first time, and I would flip a coin to deciede if I should have added the bathroom area between the first and second sleeping quarters or left it out.

http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/3411/j2bon2.jpg
http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/9726/j2cot8.jpg
http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/14/j2dff7.jpg


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## WarpCore Breach (Apr 27, 2005)

Outstanding, Robert!!! :woohoo:

LOVE what you did there- but I see by being true to the lower deck set layout that your Jupiter 2 cannot ever have the Space Pod.... actually, I don't see where one could store even a disassembled Chariot, either.

Not that either point takes away anything from your build. It's gorgeous! :thumbsup:

The other week I found my PL Jupiter 2 while searching for some other unrelated pieces and the interior parts weren't with the hull; it took a bit of searching but now all the parts have been reunited. I see by what I was starting to work with was to incorporate the Pod and Chariot bays into the Jupiter 2 and this neccessitated somewhat radical modifications to the lower deck layout. Access to the landing gear steps would be from the lower deck. The upper deck ceases to be circular in layout because of where the Pod access hatch is located relative to the outer doors on the J2 for the Pod. 

Reconciling certain operational aspect of the Jupiter 2 to the interior sets vs. exterior simply cannot be resolved easily. My solution is to alter the interior. And no, the scale differences between the upper and lower decks isn't really resolved, either. Welcome to the world of Irwin Allen! I wonder if his Caddy ever had an RV sized interior ...?


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

PerfesserCoffee said:


> The exterior mock up plans seem to scale out making the saucer about 43 feet in diameter. Does anyone have any info on the actual diameter?


That sounds about right, but I can't remember where I read that. I'm still looking, but the Fox mock-up drawings I have are very hard to read.


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## toyroy (Jul 17, 2005)

Robert Hargrave said:


> ...I used the Polar Lights model and drew up my own set of scale plans making the model into 1 inch = 5 feet, so my hull was 60 feet across...In this set up the lower deck was just over 6 feet tall, but the upper level was more like 10 to 12 feet tall. The lower deck is almost all scratch built using sheet & strip styrene, the upper level I used most of the supplied wall sections with many modification...


Thanks, Robert. Yours is a great build! :thumbsup:


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## Robert Hargrave (Dec 4, 2003)

WarpCore Breach said:


> Outstanding, Robert!!! :woohoo:
> 
> LOVE what you did there- but I see by being true to the lower deck set layout that your Jupiter 2 cannot ever have the Space Pod.... actually, I don't see where one could store even a disassembled Chariot, either.
> 
> A book I got from CultTvmans site about the Jupiter 2 had drawings of the original Gemini 12 idea interior answered hypothetical questions about the ships engien location (compacted under the lower level floor) as for the chariot it was packed away on the upper level behind the master alarm panel and flight recorder. Another idea the book had for the space pod was to mount it behind the door next to the elevator, but to launch it the pod was first moved to the right and positoned over the launch bay and released (a waste of limited space on board the ship but that was their take on the interior of the ship). As for my build of the J-2 I went with the first season main design with an added touch here and there from following seasons.


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